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Nonprofit Radio for November 14, 2014: Trust, Mistrust and Betrayal & Why The Rich Give

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Nina Chanpreet Kaur: Trust, Mistrust and Betrayal

Nina Chanpreet Kaur

These by-products of our relationships with donors, bosses and peers can make your success or break your heart. Nina Chanpreet Kaur, organizational consultant and doctor of social problems, shares her research on trust.

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Maria Semple: Why The Rich Give 

Maria Semple

Maria Semple is back. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder. She’ll walk us through the 2014 US Trust Study of High Net Worth Philanthropy. 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week build driscoll he’s, a disaster non-profit executive, and he takes non-profit radio with him when he travels love that bill, you’ll find him in milton, massachusetts, or the twin cities in minnesota on twitter. He’s at b driscoll j r there must be an s r but he’s. Probably not on twitter. Congratulations, bill, and thank you very much for your support of non-profit radio. We’ve got a new online station joining us k s c r out of pomona, california welcome very good to have you with us and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of submarine dermatitis if i even heard rumors that you had missed today’s show trust, mistrust and betrayal the’s byproducts of our relationships with donors, bosses and peers could make your success or break your heart dahna chanpreet power core studies the issues around trust and why the rich give maria semple is back she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder she’ll walk us through the twenty fourteen us trust study of high net worth philanthropy on tony’s take two it’s amazing when charities come together and work together responsive by generosity siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks i am seed. They’re new york city event just this past weekend, and i’m very pleased that nina chanpreet core is with me in the studio. She’s, an organizational consultant and social psychologist by training doctor of social problems and educator her work sheds light on what underlies drives, motivates and manages effective change in the world. She was the founder of kitchen table community teaching cooking classes to understand how food can build trust across ethnicities and religions, nina lives for the tender moments of truth and compassion, clear seeing eyes, hands reaching out to help arms embracing in understanding. You can follow nina on twitter she’s at nina chanpreet nina chanpreet court welcome to the studio. Thank you so much for having me. Tony it’s. A big pleasure. Thank you. I love the you know the way you describe yourself as living for tender moments of truth and compassion. That’s very touching. Well, it’s, very important in the world we live in today, i think it’s difficult. To ah have the experience of trust. I mean, in many ways, there’s very little we can trust the ingredient labels on the food we eat and the information we’re getting from the media. It’s challenging to understand what’s really that’s not really what’s what we can trust andi, i think there’s a lot of wounded nous and i rolled around it interesting that you mentioned the first example you give his food labels well, always right, you’re you must read ingredient labels like i do, so i don’t try don’t i am one of those people going to bother? No, no, no, i’m very meticulous. I don’t trust any ingredient label myself. I’m writing a fiction i mean, michael short work of fiction, right? My my research on trust emerged out of my own personal experiences and in which i found myself not trusting anything or anyone and really having to examine that and understanding what it is like in an organizational system and what it is like internally as well, not trusting anyone or anything that that that that’s a cold place to be a lonely place. It’s a cold lonely i’m exaggerating, but but you understand you know we’re going to actually define i’m going to ask you later, you know, defined trust and betrayal and things, but i feel like i’m a person who trust at the outset before i even know somebody i sort of i trust until someone gives me a reason not to trust, um, i think i’m going down the wrong path. Well, seymour, about that okay, let’s, take a business interaction. I just on the strength of a phone call, i trust my intuition. Yeah, i’m going to use the word trust or rely on my intuition, and the person seems like a good person like they they they ah, can be. They will be someone who will follow through on their commitments, whatever commitments we’re talking about making together. And when they give me their word, i can rely on it. Um, someone you know and i draw these conclusions on the strength of maybe a ten minute phone call. Maybe i’ve never let’s use the example where lots of times i’ve never met the person face-to-face it’s. Just a phone call, and i feel that, uh, that i can i can count on them. I can rely on them. I can trust them. That’s just my my nature. Well, one of the parts about trust that i research was the unconscious elements of trust and what’s really going on underneath the surface. So while consciously we may say, oh, you know, i trust this person there’s always something else going on under the surface. And i think we do need to challenge the idealization of trust because buy-in doing the research that i kept breeding things that trust is so important. Trust is so important trust is so important, and mistrust is actually equally important i mean, scientific research and, you know, antibiotics and so many scientific inventions were based off of not trusting something and seeing something in the road saying, wait, let me let me rethink that. Do i really trust what i’m seeing? Let me let me study this right there’s so many inventions in the world, scientific and non scientific that were really premised on mistrusting or trying to look a little bit further. So the idea that trust is that simple or that it’s, the most important thing on dh is easy to achieve, i think it’s something that i challenge because i think it is more complex than that. Similarly, i think mistrust and betrayal can be equally important, if not more, in some cases. Okay, so something more going on? All right, i’m glad we have. Well, there’s always more going on. Isn’t there? Okay, i don’t know. I you think about these things and study them more than i do. You know, i gave you my my approach toward it. Let’s. Define some terms. So since you’re the researcher in this, what how do you define trust? Well, there’s it’s a challenging question to answer because i think it it’s so subjective. But i do think that trust is not it’s it’s, not some kind of stable, non changing experience. I think it has a sort of life of its own and is very subjective and is the product of conflict and collaboration and deep relationship building. Yeah. Excellent. I know you refer to it is a product or by product of relationships. Yeah, some of my earliest work experiences is a when i was in my twenties att that time, i was a teacher. We would sit down in these meetings and we were supposed to take on these very big tasks, and we’d sit there, and everyone was twiddling their thumbs, complaining about how nobody trusts anyone. Of course, that wasn’t the language that was being used, but it was really a cop out and a lack of accountability because we would have gotten there, we would have formed that trust had we been willing to dig into stuff that was very uncomfortable to confront our own incapacity and our own kind of heartbreak about our failure as teachers in a school system that is failing, and so our inability to do that or lack of accountability, which, you know, we were just kind of dancing around, and i’m sort of pretending, and i say we i mean, i was of course aware that this was happening, but unable to necessarily do something about it in a big way. So and i’ve seen this in another non-profits i currently work a teaching matters, which is a non-profit i’ve consulted other non-profit so i so i see this kind of expectation that we start with trust, but the truth is that we usually end with it. So what? Okay, i’m going to challenge myself then, since you’re challenging these notions what i’m calling trust maybe is naivete. Well, i have a child in the dark or something or so that’s. A very interesting association. I wouldn’t say naive a tae that that there’s there may be i mean, there’s always a judgment. I think when we use that word in it, i don’t know what it is for you. But i do think our our first experience of organizational life is in our family system. And so are first formative experiences around trust are really important to pay attention to because they have a rich information for how we currently experience trust and betrayal and the notions that we have in the associations that we have around that. So i do think thie i mean, not that it makes you a child, but i do think it’s important to look at that dimension of our relatedness around trust. Okay, this may be a conversation more for my therapist than then a special psychologist. Let’s see s o i’m going to presume that your definition of mistrust would be something similar. It’s certainly also a byproduct of relationships. And it was him. Or you would add about mistrust. Well, again, it it there’s there’s a different i guess the only way i can distinguish it is there’s a difference between mistrust and betrayal, i think, which is that i think trust and mistrust kind of live together. So if we’re if we think we have one underneath the surface, the mistrust is always there. If you think about any even personal relationships, you can’t have a professional ones many times we give trust, hoping that we won’t. We won’t have the experience of being betrayed or are having experience of mistrust so that there’s it’s always there and betrayal in particular is an incidents when agreements between two people, whether unconscious or not conscious, are our transgressed or broken or boundaries are really crossed on dh i mean and well, i guess there so i’m saying that there are so many other components to betrayal, but that would be a very basic way to look at it. Okay? Betrayal. Very harsh. That’s the word no eight years horse but but but that’s, the thing about the world we live in today’s, which is why does it have to be perceived so harshly? We have to go away for a couple minutes. Nina chanpreet corps. And i’m going to keep talking about the bite. These byproducts of your relationships, trust, mistrust and betrayal. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s talk about your research, nina, how do you study these issues? Well, my, my, my approach to doing research is looking through a psychodynamic lens, so just to touch on what you said before about, is this a conversation more for my therapist and and and i and i think that that is something within non-profits the idea that well, we only have to deal with strategic plans and theories of change and how we run meetings and not deal with the softer aspects, the reality, the felt experience between people. And so i about a year ago, i went to a group relations conference, which is it’s, an experiential unconference looking at the group dynamic systems, dynamics, organizational dynamics, and i stumbled upon the topic of trust and betrayal that week, it was a week long conference, and it was a very powerful experience, one of the members on staff there i was dr jim krantz, and he has done a lot of research also about trust and betrayal and how leaders often times have to make very tough decisions and betray in the process of managing organizations and it doesn’t it doesn’t, and you’re right. I mean, when you said betrayal is harsh, it’s true, it it’s a very painful experience. I mean, i don’t mean to take away from the felt experience that can be debilitating in the face of betrayal, but but but but our ways of thinking about trust and betrayal is really what i researched and in the context of school. So i have i mentioned before, i am a consultant teaching matters, and i’ve worked for the new york city department education for the last ten years, and trust and betrayal are just the most the biggest issues happening in schools today because there are so many changes, and those changes aren’t being built well managed, and as a result, i was looking in these organizational systems, i working in the schools and seeing that the ideas about trust and betrayal, or were very for me a little bit strange because change itself for many teachers and for many even administrators was a form of betrayal, just just the fact of so many changes happening was produced and invoked a sense of betrayal, not probably not only among teachers, but among students, also parents, i looked mostly at the staff and what we’re looking at. We we’re looking at a school system that fundamentally is not meeting the needs of the student. And so what i research was, why is this happening? Why do we have a system? And by looking at a couple of schools this case, studies in which the needs of the children are being met and what i found was that there is a regression happening, there’s this idea that we be able to trust or or that change never happens this agreement within the staff systems of schools, and this expectation around things either not changing or being ableto have a certain level of comfort, right right now in school, so many things are being challenged, the contract, the pay scale, the curriculum, the standards. I mean, almost everything in a school right now is changing. But basically nothing has stayed the same. And so what i wanted to understand is, why have we why do why does that expectation exist? That nothing changed on my hypothesis about in what i research? Was that the expectation that there be some kind of idealized trust that doesn’t change is a form of regressed thinking in a way in and a way in which and when i say regression, what i mean is that the needs of the children are being met, but rather the needs of the staffer put first and that’s what that’s what’s going on, and it doesn’t mean i’m not trying to say teacher would be listening. This alarm bells might be going on. I’m not trying to say the needs of the staff are not important to the needs of the adults are not important, but the needs of the children are not coming first on di didn’t you know it’s interesting, i didn’t look at the experience of trust between teacher and student that is a more difficult thing toe look at just in terms of the, um i guess just the logistics in terms of running a study like that, so my research was both quantitative and qualitative, and i was looking at it from a particular psychodynamic lens, so i hope that gives you a little bit of context. Well, one of the other things i’ll say is that a couple of years ago i had a leadership mentor. Who said to me, you know the world is changing so quickly, you really do need to know yourself and have a firm sense of yourself. Because when things change, you don’t also want to be falling apart in the middle of it. And around the time when i started this research, something in my life happened that really challenged me and challenge my notions of myself and trust and other people on dh in it and i it really required me to have that strength. And so one of the one of the things whenever, whenever i talk about my research, it’s impossible also not to talk about what i personally went through to be able to learn and see more clearly in my research, right there was there was a personal journey there. So you want to expand on what the journey was in a minute or two? Well, you said a little bit about it before i mean, it is t now there was a personal journey, and then, well, not sure. Well, what i’ll say about it is just that i, like i had mentioned before, beginning when we were first talking was that i was looking at myself, kind of putting myself in a p tradition, noticing that i don’t trust really anything, including ingredient labels, which are very black and white and s o it was just sort of, you know, looking more carefully at my own internal and interest psychic world around trust and betrayal, and trying to understand what was going on for me, and it became very informative for how it was then seeing the world around me. Where do you think this expectation comes from? That that there won’t be changed and that things will remain constant? Well, i think it i think it comes from, um it come, it comes from living in a world in which our organizational systems, and in which our school systems are are not are not dealing with the what i will say unconscious or underneath the surface elements of things, and so eh? So i think when we are more conscious of our thoughts, beliefs and actions it’s very simple to to challenge that notion. But when we’re not doing that, it’s just it’s, it’s, it’s very easy to fall into that belief, it’s very counterintuitive because there is so much change day to day from from employment situation’s toa technology, tio new stop signs. And in new york city the new speed limit this week from thirty to twenty five there is so much change around us, but so the expectation seems really exactly it’s irrational. This is so this is it. So when we think about when i say unconscious is exactly what i’m referring to is the irrationality, and we and and this is something i learned from jim krantz, which is that we are really living in a myth of rationality in the world, when in fact, there’s a whole lot of irrationality, that’s running our organisations in our systems and particularly i would say, buy-in in startups non-profits where people who are running them not that this oh my god, it’s, just so much irrationality happening in corporations, but non-profits and social enterprises are very interesting to look at because they have less funding to invest in some of these other types of mechanisms that they may need in their organizations. It’s kind of you know what i experience a non-profits is sort of like you have to be bare bones, right? You can’t always invest in these other aspects of organizational life that are so critical and and what i’m referring to is this approach of looking at the irrationality and an organizational system and looking at group dynamics and really grasping it. So how are we going toe navigate through our relationships, understanding that there’s going to be disappointment and frustration and also elation? Yeah, i think what you just said is the first artist is having that expectation and and knowing with open eyes and an open mind that, you know, there will be mistrust, there will be betrayal. And why do i have this idealization that that might happen? Let me look at that and what’s going on with me that i’m not seeing the reality of what could potentially happen. I mean, i think that’s the first start, but the other piece of it is tio when we think about working and living in an organizational system is it is trying teo, to really know oneself to really reflect no, your triggers know your motivator is no what’s really important to you and to be able to gauge that about other people and see the connection between the individual, the group, the organization the system, the world around us, i mean, these these these connections are very important to make, and when we’re not making them, we’re really missing a big part of our a big piece of relationship building, and we may not be able to see what is necessary to see to build that trust so i don’t have hokey ideas about okay, sit around in a group and tell the truth for a while, and then then you’ve got trust me. I there’s so many people are very quick to sell you ideas that would form let’s. Go on a group retreat and we’re walking on hot coals. I think therefore i think that trustee or reform back, i hope it’s okay for me to say this, but i think that’s bullshit. So i know we’ve had worse, i think it’s i think it’s i think it’s much more complex. I think it depends on the type of organization, the history, the memory of that organization. How long it’s been around the dynamics of turnover in that group? There’s? Just so many things to think about. And when you’re on the funder the managerial end of things you you know leaders have to make decisions all the time, whether they’re conscious of it or not, that they that they are betraying our may need to betray in the service of the larger task of the company and the larger well being of the mission of the work. And i mean, i think a lot of funders don’t don’t know the quality of of the dynamics within systems and organizations, and if there’s one thing i could recommend, it would be i mean, i’m not in the business of giving advice, but i really do think the experience i went through was invaluable and going to a group relations conference, and particularly for funders and the managers and leaders of organizations to be ableto have that experience it’s very eye opening. So and there is one coming up in our area in january it sze called authority roll on accountability and organizations and it’s happening january fourteenth eighteenth it’s a residential experience experiential conference in the taba stock tradition. And dr jim krantz is the director where it’s andover, massachusetts so it’s not far from here, and i have the name of it again its authority um roll an accountability authority. Role and accountable the website is leadership twenty fifteen dahna oregon. So we’ll post it, you know, we’ll post it when you were so sure the link with you. Yeah, we put in the takeaways. Paige there’s a lot of variables that go into power and authority in relationships, and i think those air relevant in around these topics, the variables on something of whose wealthier who’s got more experience, those the ones that come to mind and i’m thinking, you know, i’m thinking like, fundraiser donor-centric gree more tony, i mean, i think we we again living under this either this myth of rationality, this this idea that we have leadership figured out we don’t you know, we would continually need to revisit these basic issues of authority roll power. You know, these very basic things that play into how we relate to one another and how our organizational systems function as a result of that. And i think that, you know, trust is not in itself it’s sort of is just one thing, but it’s, everything around it that either creates that air destroys it. It’s a very elusive thanks, yeah, little more book. Well, like when we’re talking about authority and power and i mentioned before accountability, you know, we were talking about the group dynamics. These things are kind of the the the world of the organizational life and that’s going to determine whether or not they the system’s ableto hold trust and individuals can form bonds of trust or not, and in my experience and this is something that’s challenging for me to even say, but in some of the school’s right work, it’s just buy-in what i found is sometimes it’s just not possible it’s not possible to form trust, and it can take a very long time. And it’s it’s, the reason why i have a hard time saying it is because it makes me feel debilitated or i’m like, how do we live in a world where it’s just at times not possible and many people may challenge me on that. But from what i felt and experienced, there are times when it’s just not possible, and it doesn’t mean that there’s no solution, but it can take it can take an organization where there is a significant trauma or an incident decades to rebuild e i mean it’s on and it goes much better when we’re looking at what we’re just talking about, we’re looking at these dynamics and we’re working on them and we were we continually see trust is a byproduct instead of having the expectation that it be there in order for us to do the work, we’re always going to be working under a kind of discomfort and a sense of constant change that that may not be ideal, but but we have to work wonder it to get to the trust we’re always working in a state of discomfort you’re saying i think so to some extent, i mean, i mean, when in my own work, you know, i love what i do. I really love the work i’ve done in schools over the last decade, and it brings me a lot of pleasure, but that, but but that feeling of pleasure is always there with a lot, with a mixed, other set of emotions around discomfort, uncertainty, fear, you know, questioning myself, questioning other people on dh in fact, what’s interesting so year, so a year since i started well, over a year now since i started doing that research what i have discovered in myself is, i trust myself more, but i continue to question myself, and i continue to reflect, and that has been, i think, a guiding light for me and being able to navigate so much complexity. Yeah, good, yeah. Lorts there aren’t probably enough very many people always questioning, always asking these bigger questions the way the way you’re going through not only your research but your life. It sounds like you, and the reason why i figured out how to do it is because i’ve met many people along the way who opened the door for me or open my eyes to something that said, hey, pay attention to this or, you know it it’s so much of my success is based on the success of other people who i have many form bonds of trust with, but but but but nothing and nothing in my life has ever remained constant or consistent, and so perhaps because i’ve had that experience just even from my childhood to today, it has given me a bit of a different perspective. What is it that you love about the work that you’re doing? Whether it’s consulting the research, what do? Well, i’m really driven by you know what? What you mentioned in the introduction, which is, which is how do you effectively impact change? And i’m i’m also driven by buy-in finding ways to continuously improve what we’re doing that so that’s my m o that’s what i really want to see in the world and so it just gives me great pleasure to be able to work with people and work and organizations where i can help them do that. And i can be part of that experience and figure figure something out for the wide world. So a lot of what i’m doing in schools, the reason i do the research is so i can look at it and take it back and say, okay, wait here. I found something this could apply across, right the applied research. This could apply somewhere else and making that making that connection, leveraging that change is really important to me. Um, you know, it comes from it comes really from my mother and the way that i was raised and she was very aware of global issues and whether or not i should have known what i knew about the world at the ages that i did is another issue, but just just having from her and seeing from her what’s happening in the world and wanting to understand kind of in this title that i wear the doctor of social problems, what’s going on and how you solve it. It is really what gives me a lot of pleasure, so i’m glad you credited your mom at the end. Well, of course, we have to leave it there, ok. Nina chanpreet corps last name spelled k es. You are. You’ll find her on twitter at nina chanpreet, thank you so much for having me, tony. My pleasure. I’m glad you know i’m glad you’re with me. Thank you very much. Generosity siri’s. They host five k runs and walks last sunday. I am seed, their generosity and why see, event over three hundred runners from nine charities came together in riverside park. They were from the center for urban community services. Creative artworks engender health, forrest, dale and other non-profits. One of them could have hosted their own event. They don’t have enough runners, but when the community comes together, then they can do incredible things together, raising over one hundred fifty thousand dollars for these nine organizations. And the fund-raising actually continues for another two weeks, so they’re not done. Generosity. Siri’s, dave lind, he’s the ceo. You can talk to him. Tell him that you came from non-profit radio he’s at seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven or generosity siri’s, dot com. They have events coming up in new jersey, miami and philadelphia. I shot this week’s video in riverside park at generosity and y c because i was really moved by the great success of these nine charities coming together like i just said, they none of them could do it on their own. But coming together such enormous synergy and there’s just ah, terrific lesson about collaboration, whether it’s with your colleagues or other organizations, this week’s video is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday fourteenth of november forty fifth show of this year. Maria simple. You know maria simple she’s, the prospect finder she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now she’s our doi end of dirt, cheap and free. You can follow maria on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria simple. Hello there. How are you today? I’m doing very well. How are you? Just fine, thank you. Excellent. We’ve got the pleasantries out of the way. What’s what’s this high net worth study all about that you want to talk about? So i had an opportunity to hear about the results of the most recent high network study that was undertaken by us trusted it’s actually a partnership between us trust and the indiana university lily family school of philanthropy, and they do this study every other year. And i was attending a conference on friday for a f p in west chester, and i heard david radcliffe speak he’s, one of the managing director’s um, over at us trust, and so i thought it would make for some very interesting conversation because, of course, non-profits were always interested in knowing what what are the high net worth individuals in our communities thinking about as it relates to philanthropy in general, but about how we as organizations operate on dh? How can we leverage the results of this study to sort of improve or tweak what we’re doing is non-profit so it was very intriguing to me, and so as i was listening to him, speak and then afterward went in on the web and sought out the study itself. Um, i was thinking of this through the lens of a non-profit and what should they be gleaning from these reports? We should just cut you out and brought david on well, let’s, bring the principal in here. Well, well, you know what that would probably make for conversation, you know, how you know? Absolutely, but i think but, you know, i’m looking at it fromthe lens of if i were well, obviously, as a prospect researcher, i was very interested in this, right? So i’m always interested in what is going on in the psyche of the high net worth individual, but also through the lens, as i said of a non-profit executive or a non-profit boardmember what do you need to be keeping in mind as you’re approaching or thinking about approaching high net worth individuals for some major gift to really propel your organization’s forward? Important, i think, to recognize that the survey is based on self reported activity and thoughts around why we give why i give so there’s always that, you know, sampling bias. I’m not sure if that’s the right phrase, but there’s always a bias around self reported results versus something that’s observation all yeah, but what? You know, what was interesting was they really made sure that they tried to randomly sample across the entire united states on dh so in the end they’re in there. I understand. Just still self reported data. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Itself reported data and it has to do with their sentiments about they’re giving in the year twenty thirteen. So overall, i will say that i thought things came out to be pretty positive from the report. Things do seem to be on an upswing. So that was the overarching from me. Good news that i got out of the executive summary of the study. I did see that ninety eight percent of high net worth. And by the way, we should define our terms to they define high net worth as having a minimum of a million dollars net worth, excluding you home value on and having on an annual income of two hundred thousand dollars or more, right, that’s their definition of high net worth. All right, i saw that ninety eight percent of the high net worth individuals donate. Yes, yes. So that was that was indeed very good news as well as their average dollar amount has gone up. Um, since since the last study was done, so in two thousand eleven, their average gift was at fifty three thousand. Five hundred nineteen dollars and it’s actually increased twenty eight percent. It’s now up to sixty eight thousand five hundred eighty dollars. So again, good positive news. That’s probably reflecting our improved economy from two years ago. Right? Sort of expect that. But it is very it’s. Good news. Encouraging hyre encouraging also for the future that a lot of people think eighty five percent expect to give the same or mohr this year. Yes, yes, very ous. They look forward to what do they plan to do in the future? The overwhelming number of people said they planned to keep it at same levels or increased levels. So that was good to know that in their psyche, their not thinking about pulling back. Ah, they also think that non-profits are sort of a great solution to many of the problems and issues that we face in our community. So they do feel that they have a great deal of trust in the nonprofit sector to really harness and tackle some of the big issues that are going on right now. Okay, that you’re right. That’s also encouraging. What else you see in there? Well, i liked the fact that just over seventy eight percent of them gave unrestricted e-giving so that to me says as a non-profit as you’re thinking about your programs and so forth and how you know when you’re approaching foundations or corporations, and they want to give to some very specific programming as you’re approaching a non-profit i’m sorry, an individual their psyche is a little different, they don’t mind giving toe unrestricted e-giving they totally get the fact that you’ve got to keep the lights on and pay salaries, et cetera, so that takeaway was don’t forget to ask for that general operating support. Yeah, that is pretty startling. It’s that’s ah, considerably hyre number than i would have thought. But, you know, my insights could be completely off base as well, but that was yeah, pretty revealing to me that that high proportion of unrestricted giving also very encouraging. What did you say that? What did you say? The percentage was of unrestricted gift. Uh, the statistic that david shared with us with seventy eight point two percent okay, gave unrestricted among friends. We can call it seventy eight percent. Okay, um, i saw that volunteers give more. That seems intuitive if you’re spending time with the organization, you’re you’re more apt to give more to them than if you’re a non volunteer. That’s, right? Absolutely. So another takeaway, then, for a non-profit is teo not be afraid to first approach on high net worth individual and ask them for a gift of their time, as opposed to outright asking for a gift of cash? Because it is pretty darn likely. I think that if you can get them engaged at a very deep and committed level, it will probably stand to reason that the money will also follow what else you got there. So another interesting piece for me was that you have to really think about engaging both spouses so as you’re thinking about your approach to them, if they’re married, um, think about having the conversation with both people don’t leave the spouses out of the conversations around major gift because they are not making these decisions in a vacuum, and the spouse does appreciate very much being involved in that conversation on dh taking their overall interests and ideas toe heart. So they really wanna have that that level of, you know, involvement. So that would be a big takeaway i thought was make sure you’re not just talking to one person if they’re married, make sure both are at the table for the conversations. You know what i see that maria playing out badly often is at events, not where there’s an ask being being made the way you’re describing, but the, uh i see so often people working for the for the organization are talking to the predominant donor in the in the couple, whether it’s, the wife or the husband and sort of minimising or excluding fromthe conversation, the other person it’s really offensive, but i see that a lot. And so how does the how does the other person feel they feel marginalized? They they feeling like the organization thinks they’re insignificant, and i think that has a lot of repercussions. Yeah, you know what, you’re absolutely right. I’ve noticed the same thing and, you know, one way around that for an organisation is just to be a little bit more strategic, you know, in deciding all right, you know, in advance who’s going to be an attending a an event, so why not make sure that you leverage your board and keep volunteers that will be at this event to have them understand the key couples that will be there so that if a conversation is happening, you know, with, say, as you called it, the predominant donor and make sure that somebody else is, you know, trying to at least engage the other person in the conversation so that there emotions are taken into account well, just to be a decent person, you know, talk to talk, to both, talk to both the guys or the both the women or the guy in the women, you know, talk to everybody, don’t you know, just ah, yeah, i think we need a lot. More sensitivity to the fact that it’s not, you know, it’s, not all about just who gives and who volunteers and the other person we should ignore. I see that i see a lot, ok, but this was one of the other kind of along those, you know, staying on that line for a minute. One of the other interesting pieces that came out of that was that as i said, you know, you you want to make sure you’re taking both people into account. But then one piece of this study said that women are more likely to be the sole decision makers nearly three times as many women as men. Twenty percent versus seven percent are the sole decision maker. So and i’m pretty sure that us trust has also done a study in the past around women and philanthropy, so that might be something interesting to take a closer look at as well. But don’t forget to talk to the woman in the couple, that is for certain. Yes, if the if the guy is the predominant donor. But talk tio, talk to the whole family, you know? I mean, just be just just talk to people. Be decent. That’s all yeah. Okay, um, i thought it was interesting some of the breakdowns of why people give i like that there’s a very good chart about personal motivations for giving. Yes, you’re right. And i don’t have that one in front of the thing that stood out was that altruism. I was ranked highest and something that you would expect to rank high did not, which was the tax benefits ranked almost close to the bottom. So you’re a cynic you would you expected text to rank? I see i didn’t, but i work in plant giving, and i know that taxes don’t motivate most most people, but you’re okay, your little, your little more cold hearted than i am that’s. Interesting? No, i just i think i would have expected from the study that a tax incentive would have been ranking higher than it did on the overall results have been surprised to see how low it ranked it was, it was one third actually, to be exact, thirty four percent said that receiving a tax benefit motivates them to give and what you mentioned the altruism, personal satisfaction rank very high, seventy three percent said personal satisfaction. And when you believe that your gift can make a difference, that was comparable seventy four percent, a lot of a lot of altruism, you’re right. What else was interesting to you? I thought it was interesting to see why wealthy donors actually stopped e-giving so when they were asked why why they had stopped supporting an organization, they said that receiving solicitations to frequently or being asked for an inappropriate amount. Forty two percent of the people said that was the reason why they stopped. Thirty five percent said they had you there change their philanthropic focus or decided to support other causes. But i thought it was very interesting. And so, you know, that just goes to really reiterate why, as a researcher, you need to think about what is that very targeted? Ask? We can make let’s ask less less frequently, perhaps, but let’s make that ass very much tied to what that family wants to be able to do in terms of making a deep impact. Impact was also a word that that was throughout this study, i thought, because fifty over three fifty three percent of the people said that they monitor or evaluate the impact of their charitable gift. So if you can really tie closely together, i think how often you ask how much you’re asking for and then clearly demonstrating and stewarding that gift. Well, i think that’s gonna have good results. We have to go away for a couple of minutes. When we come back, maria and i will keep talking about the us trust high net worth study. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and a a me levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice that’s tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m lawrence paige, no knee author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. I still wish lawrence would pronounce his name panjwani sounds so much nicer than paige an oni i don’t know if i told him that when he was on. I don’t think i did. I think it only said it behind his back on the ship, but nobody listens to this show, so it doesn’t make a difference. All right, maria sample. What else was interesting in there, too? I have a few things, but let’s throw to you. What did you find? What else? Well, i did not see this printed anywhere in the report, but one of the things that david said at the conference was he really encouraged the non-profits to have a very succinct one page document about the organization with the legal name spelled correctly so that they can pass this document along to their attorneys for consideration in wills and bequests. So i thought you would like that tip in particular, and i modify it. One piece i would include. Besides, the legal name is the federal tax i d. Number yes. I like gross amounts of precision. Yeah, yeah. He said that, you know, make it as absolutely clear, it’s possible? Because, you know, and i’m sure you have seen in your work problems can arise if things are not properly spelled out. So i thought that was a really good tip that he shared with the audience. There’s another reason for doing it. And that is to make it easy for people to. And i’m sure this is what david thinking is they david is thinking easy to give to the organization by including it in your will. Your life insurance, maybe some other beneficiary designation document without having to go to the organization to ask what’s your legal name. What? Your tax? I d number what’s your address, you know, so just making that ah, easy process for donors. Exactly. On dh that’s. Why he wanted it to be. You know what? Go thanked one page. I thought it was interesting where the dollars are going. The high net worth dollars mostly to education. Just mostly education. Yes, they place a very high ranking on education. And that percentage did grow as well. From twenty eleven to twenty thirteen so they did feel that that was a key policy priority on dh. There were, you know, right behind that where poverty, health care and the environment. Yeah. Now that’s ah, beneath education that’s where this diverges from what atlas of giving and giving, yusa would would say, is the next most popular e-giving which is religion in the no studies. But here religion was number five durney beneath beneath like you’re saying social social services, basic needs beneath arts and beneath health. Then came religion. Yeah. And it could very well be because of the population, the demographics of the population that was actually being surveyed here. So, you know, while atlas of giving and giving us a look more broadly across all income levels since this was focusing so specifically on that hyre network population, you can see that you know what? That level things air skewed a little bit differently. Well, they’re coming again. They can afford to buy themselves into the afterlife. They don’t have to give to charities to get there. Maybe that’s it, i think, to the benefit of other non-profits other other terrible missions. What else you got there? Well, you know they’re clear expectations that they have set out for the non-profits and again, you know, comes back to two to measuring impact. I can’t stress enough how much i thought as david was speaking, then i subsequently went and read the executive summary how non-profits really need teo get very clear, um, about stewardship so important, i mean, i know that i’m here to talk about prospect research, you know, that feeds into getting the gift, but then keeping those people engaged once you’ve got them engaged with your organization toe, let them slip away because you’re either asking too frequently or ass skiing for not the right amounts or you’re not just simply telling your stories about keeping them engaged is just such a huge missed opportunity. How did how did they gauge that from this study? Well, they were they were talking about their expectations and how they expect to be having there is the impact of their gifts, how they monitor their giving, so a lot of them are actually measuring the impact they’re giving by directly engaging with the organization at eighty percent of the people are so again, it goes back to that asking them t be volunteering with you stay as close to possible with the mission of the organization so that they’re able to continue seeing the impact that you’re doing so don’t only demonstrate that impact through letters and and email and social media, but make sure that you’re engaging them to really have direct contact with the organization on dh reporting on impact for those that want that reporting? Absolutely yeah, i mean, there are going to be that the people who really want to see it in, you know, in that number’s format, you, they want to see the reports and so forth and that’s great, you’ve got to do that. You’ve got to do those outcome measurements and so forth, however, at that high net worth level, if you can keep them engaged as well through volunteerism. It’s going to bode very well going forward for you. Okay, we have just about a minute left. What what’s a final point you’d like to make again having that one page document don’t ignore thie, you know, because a couple aa in its entirety a cz decision makers understanding what motivates them, keeping them engaged with your organization, getting them to volunteer more often on dh asking for appropriate amounts so that does involve prospect research. It involves understanding where they’ve given what other levels and where you know what motivates them. What is it that they want to give to within your organization? She’s, our regular contributor in prospect research and she’s the prospect finder. You’ll find maria simple at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter at marie. A simple thank you so much, maria. Thank you. Real pleasure to have you back. Thank you. Next week got mohr informative interviews coming from fund-raising day. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it at tony martignetti dot com generosity siri’s good things happen when small charities work together. Seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com our creative producer was clear meyerhoff sam liebowitz is on the board as the line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules this music is by scott stein you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Sorry, i couldn’t do live listener love pre recorded this week. But i love our live listeners and podcast pleasantries as well. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is, we’re here that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for October 5, 2012: Friends From Events & Get Engaged 1

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Andrea Nierenberg
Andrea Nierenberg: Friends From Events

Andrea Nierenberg, president of Nierenberg Consulting Group, talks you through her friendly steps for meeting more people at events of any kind, and building a real relationships with them. It’s remarkably simple.

This segment with Andrea has a survey. Please take a moment to answer three quick questions. You’ll find it below. Thank you! If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it.
 

Amy Sample Ward
Amy Sample Ward: Get Engaged I

Amy Sample Ward, our social media scientist, kicks off her new status as contributor. This month is Part I of a series on real engagement and building trust through the social networks. She’s membership director for Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN) and blogs for Stanford Social Innovation Review.

 
 

Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey, the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/6ZPZGM5


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Hyre hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host it’s october fifth, two thousand twelve oh, i hope you’re with me last week. Yes, i do simply i hope you were here because last week was the law of attraction to attract major gift prospects and potential board members, you have to put your best foot forward to get what you’re seeking. Melanie schnoll begun is managing director at morgan stanley private wealth management remember, she helps her ultra high net worth clients make charitable gifts and get on boards, and she had practical and valuable advice that applies to any charity soliciting a major gift or recruiting a boardmember also private benefits not dirty but bad. We’re not talking friends with benefits. These air the rules against private and your mint excess benefit transactions and private benefit generally these rules keep your charity operating for the public good. Emily chan from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group is our monthly legal contributor and she explained all those rules this week. Friends from from events andrea nierenberg, president of nierenberg consulting group, talks you through her friendly steps for meeting more people at events of any kind and building a real relationship with them. It’s. Remarkably simple advice and get engaged. One amy sample ward, our social media scientist, kicks off. Her new status as contributor. This month is part one of a series on riel engagement and building trust through online social networks. She’s, membership director for non-profit technology network and ten, and she blog’s for stanford social innovation review. Are you on twitter at this moment? If you are, then you should be following us on the hashtag non-profit radio on tony’s. Take two in between the guests, perseverance, that’s, what i blogged this week and that’s what i’ll talk about at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. Right now, we take a break. When we returned, i’ll be joined by andrea nirenberg, and we will talk about friends from events. Stay with me, co-branding dick, dick tooting, getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz e-giving. Nothing. Good joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city in pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz lorts durney yeah, welcome back. We’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, and today is no exception to that. In the studio with me now is andrea nierenberg she’s, author of several books, and i’ll ask her to name a couple of those titles in a few moments. She’s, president of nierenberg consulting group, which you’ll find at nierenberg group dot com you’ll find her name is spelled and i e r e n b e r g nierenberg group dot com, and i’m very pleased that her work and her expertise brings her to the studio and the show. Andrea welcome. Thank you so much, tony it’s great to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you i’m glad you’re with us. Thank you were talking about friends from events. People get a little intimidated at events what’s what’s up. People do because they think that when they go to any kind of an event that they have to get something and i always say before you go, set a goal in your mind that you’re curious, you’re going to go to meet a couple of new people, learn about them, and i always say when i talk about networking, the opposite of networking is not working that every time you meet someone it’s an opportunity to learn from them, be a resource or give something first, if you go with that sort of premise, it’s fun, all right? And we’ll go into detail on each of those. You know, you have a lot of advice around those, but but this is potentially walking into a room full of strangers or mostly strangers. I mean, if i only know two or three a handful of people out of the room, i might not see those people it’s intimidating. It might be, but you could do your research before you go and that’s something that we all have available right now. You can go online, you can see a little bit about the organization you can see about the event that’s going to be coming up, even a social event on a lot of times, i’ll just, you know, connect with the person who’s giving the party or whatever just to learn a little bit about that. So for something it’s a business related, i say, get in touch with the greeter or the organizer before. The event or after you’ve done some homework so you make an introduction b e mail or call them, i’ll say, i’m going to be coming and you know, i don’t really know anyone there. What advice might you have? People are shocked when people do that, then do something really important. Send a note after you’ve spoken to the person or connected with them online it’s that given you some feedback, a hand written note just to say, i’m really looking forward, all right, and we’re goingto that kind of detail. I pulled listeners before the show, and we did have low survey response this week, so maybe less reliable than usual. But one of the questions i asked was, do you prepare before attending your charities social events, for instance, who you’d like to meet, research those people and think about talking points with people? And eighty percent of the people said yes, and twenty percent said, no, they do not. So for the eighty percent will have advice. We will put a finer point on that, and for the other twenty percent, we’ll get you up to speed. Let’s, say a little more about the researcher and how first, how are we going to find out who’s going to be there? Well, sometimes you can go right online and you can see who the board of directors are if there’s a speaker who the speaker is, you can see people that have been other events that they’ve had, and again, you may not get a guest list for that particular evening or that day, but at least you’ve got some people. And again, you may not meet those particular people, but at least if you do, you have the opportunity to go to google or to go to their site or the link dan or anything to find out a little bit about them. So if you do have the opportunity to meet them there, you have some talking points are but there are other people that you could meet that you don’t have. I did the research on. Okay, andi, if this is your own charities event, you might be a fundraiser or an executive director for a boardmember going to an event, then you definitely can get a copy of the certainly i just i’m so excited about this new friends of events, i threw the microphone across the across the table, but i’m back don’t worry on dunaj un injured as well. So then, if you’re one of those people and it’s easy that you definitely should get a list of all the attendees and go through it. It’s very easy and, you know, especially if you say, you know, i really love to meet these people and connect with them on and differentiate yourself. I always say also go to google alerts because any time that somebody has been in the media or the press or anything, you can get some information and you’ll get it like in a low. So you want to set up a google alerts for someone. Now, if this is a big event, you would probably wouldn’t set it up for all the all the hundreds of people who are coming for your key people that really happened. They have that all the time for your key people, because it’s it’s something that’s ongoing because you’re just not going to go to the event, meet them and that’s it. You want to build a relationship? That’s the whole idea. And also, you don’t want to stop the people. I mean, this is this is just getting a zai say to some people gathering intelligence and information, you’re just pulling in. So you have knowledge. When you meet somebody, you have a very short window of time to make a first impression. Okay, understand? So clearly our research is part of our goal setting. When this is all subsumed, i guess in having a goal for the afternoon or the evening. Absolutely. I want to send some live listener love out tio new bern, north carolina and a story of new york that’s queen’s write stories. Queens. Of course. I knew that i used to live in forest hills, queens on dh. This may be a popular time in the story of two because it’s beer, it’s octoberfest and a story of new york happens to be known for its beer gardens. So welcome a story. Welcome. New bern, north carolina. Live listener love out to out to you that’s. Nice, of course. Well, did you expect other one that no, in fact, i’m going to be in a story tomorrow. So that’s what? Okay, cool. You thought i was? A crash host? No etiquette. Okay, that you’re great. Well, don’t get carried away. But you thought it would be okay. Okay, we’ll be fine. Um with just a minute left or so before our first break. What else should we be thinking about when we when we know who these people are that we want to talk about what we want to talk to at that event position you’re, you know, your introduction, something that’s kapin pool to them and something that you could get your point across also, but something very short, brief focus on the other person, don’t focus on herself, which a lot of times people do say something to that person that when you walk up to them, is something that you admire about them. You’ve heard them speak. You’ve read something about their work, something like that and then put out your hand and introduce yourself. Take the initiative, tying your research that you did to the opening a couple lines. We’re all right. We’re gonna take this break and when we return, of course andrea nierenberg stays with me, and i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s, time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower. We’ll discuss what you’re born, you society, politics, business, it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about so gain special access to the ivory tower? Listen to me, larry. Sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday nights nine to eleven it will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, andrea nirenberg is here and we’re talking about friends from events. What is thea the next step after you or you want people to be confident? Let’s? Take that and you want to put my hand out on dh introduced myself, right? I say you have to have your intangible tool kit with you and your tangible tool kit. Okay, what your intent? Intangible you’ve done your research, you’ve set a goal for the event. You’ve also thought about your appearance. You thought about the fact that when you walk into the room, you’re going to smile and research tells us that most people do not smile when they walk into a room, and when you smile and you walk in, first of all, you become more confident you feel more confident internally, you’re approachable, and it also is something that most people aren’t always doing there exactly. So watch the next time you walk into an event. Also, think about what you’re going to say to people, have you or introduction, you know you’re twenty second, if you will introduction, sort of a headline that you’ll have also some headlines about me, yet you have somebody says hey, tony, what do you do? Right. Well, say really, even though they want to know what you do, they really want to talk about who more than anybody, right? Thumb. So right. I mean, myself with there being polite. Absolutely. But i’m just saying, but that’s, how you draw a conversation with people. So as we all know, it’s very common sense also something so basic and self simple. Turn off all your equipment. I know i say this, but how many times do you go somewhere and people are still connected? Have great eye contact. Sounds simple, not always done in a firm handshake. Simple things, but all this is in your intangible tool kit. You know, because you have to think about these things. Also, take a quick look in the mirror and make sure you do give yourself a smile because i have a greeting in my office is a mirror is has a wonderful greeting. If you smile into it, it smiles back. If you frown into it, it returns that greeting it’s basic but basic works. Plus, you want to look to make sure you have spinach thing for understanding through exactly i talk. About that in a lot of my books and people laugh, but i say, you know, what’s critical it’s critical, and then in your end, in your tangible tool kit, this is keep have your business cards, not to give them out unless somebody asked for them, but have them so that they’re with you. I always say, have a prop with you to like something that you might where i wear a lot of pins have an interesting pan, something like that. So, you know, you can start conversation also pen and paper because your people took it was very full. Well, it’s not that full because what happens things are no, i’m pinned on bulky with my cards. No, no, no, no, not a lot less is just want one cup, one interesting thing, okay? And the thing is, i always say, don’t matter how sharp your mind is, it’s still weaker than the pale of stinks so i may learn something about you, toni, and then i’m thinking, i want to be able latto follow-up but i don’t have to write something down, so if we’re in a longer conversation, i might say, with your permission, could i write a few notes down because i’d like to be able to follow-up you don’t think that’s, you don’t find that craft if we’re in a conversation for awhile for discussing things not go? No most the time, the reason i have is after we walk away, then i think development officer going more morgan’s, you know, you’re not interviewing the person, not drilling them, but you know how sometimes you just like, well, that’s, right? You talk for a while, then you might say, just let me make a couple of those yeah, right, you know? And i’ll use their business card, teo, to make those, but no, i’m gonna correct on that because one of the things is i’m glad you brought that admonished no, no, not at all, but what happens if the business card if you think about in the far east and i’ve been there eight times and i always think about that when you get someone’s business card, they give it to you almost like it’s, like it’s them. I have heard that exactly, and people study it, they look at it, they come in on it, so you know what i’ve started. To do when i go to advance or when i meet people anywhere, i will get the card. Then i might comment on it. Tell me a little bit more about that and i just did this on one of my client programs that we do these webinars and all thie advisers in the room were like saying this’s, fantastic. Okay, something to dio, but we’re not in the far east, so i mean, here in the us we live in. We don’t. We don’t revere the business card. It’s maura, we should those, but but you know what, it’s? Another talking point. So the thing is, we usually to convince me of this. All right, well, i don’t want to convict e what i always say. I know, i know. I always say take the best and leave the the rest. Okay? But my point is when i will be with you so i know twenty tow woobox tangible and, boy, i got a front once i’m learning all the time. But the funny thing is that when you do look at someone’s card or ask some questions no, that part i love because because there’s often there’s information on the card that i think, oh, i used to live there or but i don’t look at it until i’m in my house. I met you, so i’m not. I’m not disagreeing with you about the staring at the card, actually reading it in the president, nothing glancing at the card really, i am being admonished is no question about that, but that’s okay, yes, we are definitely having fun. So but it’s the it’s, the not writing on the card, you know, because we’re not in the far east, it doesn’t matter. Well, again, i always say take don’t take the bus leaving, the rest were gone and i got the window, okay, but my point is because sometimes if you write on someone’s card, you know, a lot of times then you know it gets lost or whatever i say take it back, put it into your database or wherever you keep your information and that’s really what you need to dio and then put down your notes. So i’m putting my notes elsewhere. Now, if i’m in the midst of the conversation and it’s a lengthy one, as you suggested, then i’m saying, as i’ve done you mind if i take a few notes? So i need to have a little piece of scrap paper with many scrap paper? Nice little, you know, booklet being admonished again. I i’m screwing this up so badly that you’re going to make me a hermit. I never got to see this is never going to another. You could take scrap paper. It’s. Okay, but my point is, i take a little like all these wonderful little, you know, mole skin, but yeah, they’re pretty they make a much more efficient for station pieces. They make a professional appearance. Of course. All right, you’re straightening me out there, not admonishing. Okay, let me send a little live listener love out to maywood, maywood, new jersey. I have relatives in maywood, and that could be them. I don’t know. That’s grove street in maywood, new jersey. Then that would be my aunt uncle, but could be anywhere else made with the big town maywood, new jersey live listener love. And also hey, fay, china that’s. Not that’s, not in wyoming. I don’t mean. Hey, fay, china, wyoming. I mean the city of hay faye in the country of china as well. And were very apropo to send live listener love teo to our asian listeners because we’re talking about the business card and how it’s revered and how sloppy i am at events know that you’re you’re saying it makes very good sense what i did use those in a little bit now feeling defensive, you know, that’s very bad i would those little scraps i would take in the corner on it was actually not a scrap. I mean, i would have, like, a legal pad, a couple pages, and i would have it folded, but i would go off into the corner and make my notes there, but i like i like the idea of doing it face to face with the person and having a little conversational, beautiful piece of stationery that i’m writing on or some herbal note, because it makes the other person sometimes feel well, you know what i’m saying is really important, and you’re taking an interest this guy’s a big shot. Look at this cool look, it’s called a notebook people, and i always ask permission of stock it absolutely right. I’m with you. Yeah, i’m the crash one and you know i don’t know there’s different kinds of people. Yes, we can meet absolute have them identified, categorized where those with those types of people. Okay, well, after i’ve done my own research on the people i’d like to meet if i have, i’ve identified them, so i’ve already done my homework, but i may not get to meet them, so i always want to be prepared. I walk in the door, right? The greeter is right there if i’ve had in any kind of conversation with that person in advance. It’s wonderful to be able to say hi, so great to meet you in person because you have done the previous i’m coming. I might not know too many people. If not, i still seek that person out just so i can introduce myself busy though i am not going to spend a lot of time, but you go over and say hello. I just wanted to introduce myself. Thank you so much. I’m looking forward to the event and then come back at the end also to say thank you. Okay, simple talk to the people that are in front of you and behind you in line when you’re checking. In because just to say hello, what brings you to the event? So at least start conversations, people usually that air standing by the food at the bar? Isn’t it true? Yeah, great places just to walk over to people because it’s all about starting the conversation of working, the impression is very collegial around the food table you’re sharing force and well, serving for their not shaking or you’re just talking, everybody gets their own eating. Forget my events in-kind events you’re running, but i don’t know that’s an idea, but we’re also we’re only sharing the serving fork, so but literally there’s a physical sharing it is sharing the table space around which you’re walking, you started cos bar you’ve got your elbows on the bar? Yeah, so you’re sharing and basically all you’re doing, especially for people who get intimidated a lot of times about events saying, oh, who do i talk? Teo this’s. Perfect, because you could just start a conversation. Hello? What brings you here? Open ended questions would always have your exit strategy, then exit strategy thing. The other thing is people who are by themselves, you know, there was always somebody standing or sitting alone and we’ve all been there, so i always will walk up to somebody and start a conversation with them. Also, if you’re in an event when i’m there, the odds are that guy standing alone is gonna be named tony martignetti looked out, we know it’s a lot of that’s great, so i actually do engage, but now that’s a very friendly thing to do because people who are standing alone, you know, they don’t know what to do with their hands have a drink in one hand, the other hand is in their pocket or ah, there, you know, feigning using their phone, which i know you’re that’s bad, i mean, definitely should be disconnected when you’re walking into an event supposed princessa you don’t really want to be distracted right in the midst of a conversation, even if even if there’s a tone going off and you ignore it, it’s still just, you know, it’s a distraction, right? It is, but but these people standing alone, they’re they’re fainting, using mail checking, you know, you can walk up to them and saying, of course, well, what’s, the worst right? And they’re not going to give you the worst know it wasn’t really that great there alone don’t who are there other categories of people that we threw? The other group is like if there’s everybody’s engaged and there’s, we’ve talked to all the other we’ve talked about then i always say, walk up to a group now, not to people, because two people could be having are having a conversation so you don’t want to interrupt, you know, want to stand there, but if it’s three or more people just walk up and i do this all day, that teo and i will stand there usually they know you’re there after a few settlements, right? And i’ll say something like, you look like the friendliest group here, i hope it’s okay, that i came over here alone and i never tried that, all right? I just weighed on my way in because naturally, the group will start, expand and allow you in people just do that. I mean it so’s but that’s a good one. This looked like the most interesting group. But then if you go to the group next to them, you can’t, you know, because then you can use another life or something. Like that or else by that time, you could bring over, say, tony, i’d like to introduce you to or do you know, the people over there with it’s walk over together? And isn’t that a key sort of seeming like the host you’re trying to take over from those who want to seem like making connections so little boy about exactly and that’s? Why i always take on that premise in my mind that i want to be the host or hostess when i walk in for myself. So i want to greet people and be open and everything, and also because i’m an introvert, i’m a learned that you are martignetti learned extra that’s well, that’s very encouraging for the twenty percent of people who who said they don’t do their research and actually related to that. I asked another question, preshow you’re at a professional conference and you’re the last person through the lunch buffet. There are two seats left, one is at a table of strangers. The other is a solo seat at a small table all by itself. Where will you sit? Eighty percent said they would sit at the table, strangers twenty percent said they would set up the solo table, so for that for that twenty percent that we’re talking to, so you’re meaning that they’d sit by themselves instead of sitting at a table of strangers, and then i set it up solo table, so there’s nobody’s going to sit with them. So so now for your for the person who’s dahna needs to be a learned, extroverted what’s your advice there because that’s that’s you i exactly, i would say, you know, you need to have your own kind a pep talk in your mind that when you walk in and say, you know what, i’m going to jump out of my comfort zone, and i’m going to sit with some other people i don’t know because what’s the purpose of going and sitting by myself, i’m there to learn and to meet and connect with people and say that to yourself. And if you ask the person next to you, you know, has this seat been taken? Obviously is open so you can just perfect opportunity to say hello to the person on your left person on your right and just daughter conversation, but just if you think about learning e-giving sharing and asking open ended, high gain types of questions to the people, then it’s not scary, then you don’t have to focus on yourself, okay? And small talk is has a place in this right? Small talk is big talk you say to the person is a seat open. Okay, now you’ve already opened the conversation, right? So that’s, the first person why is small talk big talk? Because that starts the conversation report and everything like that and just be open and observing and aware. So the person sitting next may, maybe they’re all talking to people. Eventually there’ll be a lull in the conversation. So while i’m watching, i’m observing and then i might just say to somebody, you know, i couldn’t help, but over here, would you mind if i, you know, offered a piece of advice on that or something? And a lot of times you get into that situation, i’m thinking of the sitting at the sitting in a seat table, strangers people start looking at you, whether they’re in a conversation or not, they start to recognize that you’re they’re just like when you’re in the in the bar area, you know? Milling in joining that group, people will start. Teo will start to recognize yes, but it’s also, you know, when you sit down and you’re the last person to sit down it’s like you make a presence right there by doing that, so even if they’re all talking to each other, you know, you sit for a minute or two, but then you just start the conversation they know you’re there being an extra vert can be learned it’s very much learned. I talked about that a lot, okay, you mentioned the exit exit strategy. All right, so now we’ve been in a minute conversation a little too long, andi were sort of getting back to small talk now, like now we’ve now we’ve exhausted goodcompany ation and we’re back talking about the weather and traffic what’s my for that if we’re going to follow-up i always say there’s four things to do in every conversation learn something about the other person. So you tell me your name. Tell me a little bit about you. I want to focus on you, the other person give something. So maybe something you told me. I could give you a piece of advice. You know, tony there’s an article that you might be interested with your permission, would it be okay to send it to you? And then i would always ask you, your preferred method of communication if we were going to stay in touch, so take something away, and then if we were going to stay in touch, find a reason to follow-up say, you know, you said you’re an email person, would it be okay to reach out to you the e mail in the next week or so? Maybe set up a coffee or something? And then it’s been great meeting you enjoy the rest of your time here? Or i might say, my time’s already been well spent. Thank you so much for the conversation enjoyed the rest where i might say, tony, i don’t know if you’ve met so and so and put the two of you together and then walk away, right? Andrea, i’m gonna believe you gave about thirty five tips in this time that we’ve spent together, so people will have to go back and listen to the podcast and take notes because incredible advice. We just have about a minute before we have to depart, tell me the name of a couple of your books, non stop networking had improved your life, working career, million dollar networking a sure way to find, grow and keep your business. And i’m very proud about the book that’s coming out networking for veterans, which was done in conjunction with military and it’s coming out on veterans day. And can we find all information about that at nierenberg group dot com? Right? Andrea, i’m going to take so i’ll take a look at the time because this is really very important to me. Tell me what it is that you love about the advice that you give the work that you’re doing around this subject that we’re talking about, because it’s, you know, i was an old dale carnegie instructor if anyone ever read that years ago in the book how to win friends and influence people, and it was very, very important to me because i was always very shy. When i moved to new york, i said, i’ve gotto really put myself out there and build my business and do everything i was going to, and i always hear my wonderful dad up in heaven. Saying to me, read that book and then take the course, and i became an instructor while i was a publisher during the day and that’s that’s a long time ago, because i started my business nineteen years ago. But mr carnegie’s advice is everyday common sense, and this is what networking really is. If you look at it about giving first being a resource and sharing with people and making friends building trust simple. Andrea nirenberg is president of nuremberg consulting group nierenberg group. Dot com. Andrew, thank you so much for being a guest. Thank you, been a pleasure. Stay with me, tony’s, take two, and then any sample war. It kicks off her new status as contributor. When we talk about get engaged, one and i have a feeling he’s going to a lot of overlap between andrews conversation and amy’s conversation. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre awareness for two exciting events. The small live just minutes from new york city in pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot, or or a h a n j dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna if you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr. Robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent time now for tony’s, take two. My block this week is perseverance. Last weekend, i did the tunnel to towers five k in here in new york city it’s ah, memorial event for a firefighter who ran through the brooklyn battery tunnel on his way to the burning the world trade center towers on september eleventh, two thousand one. And he was last seen at the corner of west and liberty streets that’s the last time he was seen alive. And so that’s what? The race starts on the brooklyn side of the tunnel and goes to west and liberty streets. And there was a there are a lot of wounded warriors walking that, um, that five k and one of them. I don’t know his name, but he moved me. He had lost in one of our wars, both legs and an arm, and he had those they’re called either j legs or sea legs. They’re called both the artificial limbs below his thighs and also had an artificial arm, and he was followed by someone who had is a wheelchair with them one of the very high tech wheelchairs, but he did not need it. He had it following him, but he never used it. And just watching him come through the tunnel. A zay was going past him, gave me chills and made me think about perseverance. And so in all our work lives and our personal lives as well. In honor of that very wounded warrior, i encourage you to persevere and that’s on my block, which is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two for friday, october fifth forty second show of the year with me now is amy sample ward as a snu status as regular social media contributor. Last time she was here was the one hundredth show in july. She is membership director for in ten the non-profit technology network and she’s a blogger for stanford social innovation review. Any sample word? Welcome back. Thank you. I didn’t know you were going to make me cry today. Oh, yeah, it was very human moving you just like long stride in. I was there with you. You know, you were painting a picture. Well, good radio is an intimate coming. I’m very glad of that. Heimans we’re talking today about getting engaged and engagement, of course, in online networks, this is all sort of setting the right kind of tone for our for our work online, right? Yeah, i’m so surprised how much andrea already stole our thunder for this conversation. I feel vastly under equipped. I’m not here with bucks and i don’t have a toolbox don’t like really great tweet oppcoll phrases i don’t have any of that, so we could just bring her back. No, you know what you’re doing very model, you know what you’re doing so let’s, apply your lessons, which overlap with hers. Teo teo online. What? We’re going to have the right kind of tone yeah are are working in the networks i think a lot of organizations, when they’re thinking about either starting profiles or getting them more active, the question they have is, well, what do we talk about what we do, what we say, you know, because they know that just re posting content from their website isn’t very engaging, but they’re also like, well, at least we have that content so that’s something, you know, they don’t know what to do, but just like what? Andrea? Had listed off at the end, you know, be the resource for the community, build trust start the conversation because maybe they’re just following twitter and they’re not saying anything. You don’t know what to say, you know that all those principles apply online and not that, like that’s all that you’re ever going to do? I mean, we’re going to keep talking about engagement for a few segments, you know, there’s more that you can do to build that up, but when you’re just starting and at first and as your default, you know, one today, make sure you are being a resource to the community post something that isn’t your own content, but, you know, is something that people are looking for or is in the news, et cetera and make introductions you don’t have to just tweet hey, everyone, follow me. Maybe one day you can also tweet hey, i’m at the sky at the conference today. Tony’s great follow him that’s about example but way understand the larger concept. Yes, well, that’s what that’s, what followed friday is all about? I don’t know if you use the hashtag ff follow friday you’re supposed to encourage your followers to follow people that you find interesting. Yeah, and i love it when i actually see organizations do it. That’s, of course that’s on twitter buy-in andi, you know, just with the pound sign and an ff and saying, you know, hear other organizations also fighting the fight with us or or whatever and showing that it’s not about them, not the only ones in this important during this important work. Here’s other great u turns out someone else cares about cancer, who knew? You know that there’s always other other organizations, and it doesn’t have to be the people you have. Ah, you know, standing partnership, mou with and it’s a real thing about jargon jail? Yes. Memo of understanding yes, first time, but not if but you know, it’s it’s, not people that you have to recommend. Yeah, but if i am a charity, why would i be if i was being devil’s advocate? Cause i do agree with what you’re saying. If i’m a charity, why am i going? Encourage my followers to follow other organizations that they might then start volunteering with go to their walk, run, start donating to them what i am going to take that chance. So that is a great segway into actual data that we can talk about. S o markgraf bitters, strength of weak ties, which is back from the seventies. But it is great and still still alive and well today from the seventies. So he identified four components of what he calls tie strength. And one of the four is reciprocity, so saying and setting the tone and showing that you are so confident and at home in this whole ecosystem of other organizations, that you’re willing to recommend other organisations, you’re willing to point out the research that someone else did. That’s actually the research maybe your community was looking for and you just don’t do that research, you know, so creating the reciprocity being the first one to do it so others no. Hey, it’s. Okay, we can actually work together in this eyes, one of those four components to actually bring the community together and strengthen it. Okay. I want to get to the others in a very brief second baguettes and live listener love teo schenectady, new york upstate new york’s connected e is that where i believe that’s? Where union colleges that was one of the colleges that rejected me nineteen eighty among it’s, it’s, a long and distinguished list of colleges that rejected me. Union college was among the my beliefs connected in new york. I’m pretty sure seoul, seoul, south korea welcome and rifle colorado. I love it. I love it. Rifle welcome live listener love out there. What are gary’s other? Wait, wait, mark. Exactly. I’m sure one of them is probably active listening good being a good active and attentive listener. Sorry, sorry. Mark so the other 3 and these still tying to some of what andrew was saying earlier trust time and intensity. So how are you building trust being transparent, showing that you have, you know, confidence in the other people, whether that’s the community saying, you know, giving you feedback and you actually saying yes, i heard you and that’s great feedback time, so not just posting at noon and then never engaging the rest of the day, you know, because it’s not you’re not going. You’re not spending much time with people, and it doesn’t mean that you have to literally have facebook open all day long and your chest watching facebook but it means once you post something, maybe check back in in two hours because if people commented, they don’t want to see it took you two days to notice that the comment, you know so doesn’t have to be ah lot amount of time, it’s just the consistent time, you know, on then last is the intensity, so don’t just reply and say thanks, thanks, you know, on twitter blogger exactly you want to actually read what they tweeted to you and then respond to the message? Okay, so thanks for that comment or, you know if someone posted on your organization’s facebook wall say, oh, that’s a great idea, here’s what i think of it or, you know, have some substance tow how you’re replying because a lot of organizations think, well, we’ll just right. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Every time someone retweets us and yeah, they do get the feeling of the you got it. But then they look at your twitter stream and i go. So you just say thanks no matter what you know, like you could automate that and the robots of the internet could do it for you so making it really human bon ce again. Just strengthens that connection, okay? I think another way would be if we talk about facebook clicking like all the time and giving again there. One word, you know, thanks. Whatever, but rather than just clicking like i mean, like, so good, i mean, there’s a value in like, but you don’t you don’t just stop there every time, exactly, exactly. And sometimes alike is all you can do. Sometimes someone post just thanks to you. Well, just hitting like that is great. You know what? An eye for an eye i but if someone took the time to write a thoughtful comment or to try and give you a suggestion, they want more than a thanks or or a like, you know? Okay, now you talked earlier about engagement and and i want to talk about certainly beings a little open this around engaged, posting things that are appropriate for openness and transparency on the sort of on the governance non-technical side. But they also translate to engagement on the social media side what’s your advice around some of those, like the nine, ninety and things. Yeah, i think it’s i definitely think everyone should post their nineties because at the end of the day, they are publicly available, so it isn’t that people couldn’t find it out about you putting it on your website. I mean, the number of people that would download it is still very small, but the fact that you are being transparent and forthcoming sets a much better tone. We’ve even had people at inten email us and say, oh, my gosh, i saw on this page that you’re nine, ninety is visible i think i think that was a mistake to really have your way, and we’ve had to reply and say yes, we put it there. We want you, by the way, you could have got it from the state attorney general likely our star star scott go. Exactly. Okay, so what else? What else besides the nine? Ninety? So i also think that there’s, you know, other than that one time of year when you have the nine ninety, there are lots of times that you could be sharing things openly in a way that isn’t just here. We put it up on the website. But we want you to engage with us around this like we just got a grant. And this is what we’re hoping to do with it and, you know, here’s, the plan, whatever join us on a call to talk about all that we’re going to do in this community with this new gripped, you know, it gives recognition to the funder, which, hey, what funder does not love recognition, but it also sets the tone again from the beginning that, hey, you’re, we expect you to care about what we’re doing, and we’re going to give you the opportunity to you hear about it firsthand for, you know, as we’re getting started, not a report two years later, and we want your feedback doesn’t mean you have to use every single piece of feedback, but you’re giving them a platform to connect with you from the very beginning of that of that program, the one that troubles me i see often is a list of board members that’s typical, but just a list of names here’s, our board and then he is this is president, the chair of the board, the treasure but there’s no little little bio mean, yeah, you know, i don’t want their home addresses, but give me a little richness and what? What their help me connect with your board so that i can see what makes them passionate about your work. Exactly. And i think, you know, a lot of organizations have tried to make their staff page very engaging. You know, like here is the email address for this person or here’s, the twitter account for the team or whatever. But then you go to the board page and, like you say, it’s, just a list of names, why not connect to their linked in profile or it doesn’t have to be again, yeah, doesn’t it to be there home phone number, but give it something so that you recognize it is a social space we’re working in and people could look that up linked in profile is a great idea. They’re about paige about dot com something exactly some depth. Okay, um, let’s, take a break, and when we come back, of course, amy sample ward stays with me, and i hope you do, too. Talking. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks band radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potential jules it addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. 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We’re talking about online engagement with segments called get engaged one because there’s going to be and get engaged too, and maybe get engaged three with new social media contributor amy sample ward. You want to create a tone that is open and encouraging to how do we how do we encourage people to post and comment? Well, a lot of organizations, i think, struggle with that because they are waiting for it to happen magically, like this engagement fairy is going to go about their community, and then everyone is just going to give them lots of ideas. So part of it is, you know, asking questions versus just posting here is thie information, you know? What do you think about it or we’re thinking about doing, you know, every friday we have ah, staff brainstorm, what do you do on fridays? You know, things that don’t require you to go research something to come back with a response, you know, that starts to build ah, little bit of engagement over time, and then people just get used to talking with you in that space, but the other part of it that’s a little bit more proactive is actually listening to the community, see? See who else is out there that maybe follows you that every time they post a question, everybody starts replying, you know? And and just an influencer exactly. And using the word influencer jargon jail whenever it’s called lawrence was perfectly fund-raising jail. So but there are rules. There are boundaries and rules on this show. Only i put people in jogging owes your first time. I think we’re changing the rules. We’re gonna have trouble all right? Down, sir. And influence or influences? Yes, but i think that that word has gotten overused by, like, you know, just by certain platforms that are supposed to just magically calculate, you know, what’s your influence of influence school and all of those things. And people forget that it’s totally contextual. You may have someone that has five followers, but every time they post every one of those five followers responds, and someone could have five thousand followers and that a single person did anything you know. So just because that person has, quote unquote more clout because so many more people follow them and yeah, exactly. And they’re connected to so many other people that have lots of followers, that person that gets everyone of their followers to take action every time. Well, they have way more influence in my book, you know? So don’t just look people up, and then look how many twitter followers they haven’t think, oh, great, they’re on our influence or less, but really look at who’s, who tweeted your blah glink that got everyone to click through, you know who posted about you on facebook and had all their friends like it, et cetera, and then connect with those people personally, like send them an email or, you know, facebook, messenger or whatever and say, we know that you’re amazing, the community listens to you, you know, you’re you’re so smart, whatever pump them up on, then say we’re wondering if maybe you wanted to give some of your insights about this project we’re doing, and for the next two days, you know, you could post about it and and will put put it on our facebook page or you can tweet for us from this event we’re doing tonight. So they’re tweeting from your organizational account and from their own, and so all of those people that normally respond. Are now responding to the organization’s account, you know, so it builds their credibility as well. I’m i’m so smart and recognize that, you know, i’ve been tapped for this, but you get a steal a little bit of that is an organization, you know, i’m going to guess you don’t think much of the there is a there is a site that i mentioned a cloud with a k k o ut where once in a while, you know, you get something you got somebody give you plus one crate chaos on for professionalism or something. I’m going to guess you don’t think too much of people’s klout scores, i do not write, okay? Because i don’t i don’t think it takes into consideration the context, you know, like i was saying it it’s such a rudimentary kind of algorithm, and you go in there and i’ll be ranked with someone that i’ve never heard of with the same score on the same topic, and i think, well, either my score now is really low cause i don’t know that person or it’s totally inflated, and we’ve never met, you know? And so what? It just doesn’t make sense. Okay, especially when you can earn points by bringing people into the platform. I don’t think that algorithm works. All right, why don’t you leave us? We with a parting thought about engagement, something way haven’t talked about yet, i how about a challenge? And then we can talk about that in the next segment, so i would say for the next month, try to ask some questions and then next time we can talk about what you do after that what’s, the next step up the ladder, now that you’re asking questions scene, if people are responding, what kinds of questions do they answer their questions? That is just crickets, you know, eso try and pay attention to what about the question, you know, is different for the ones that are responding, and once that don’t get response and the next time we’ll talk about the action part. Okay, exactly next time, which will be get engaged to will be the call to action. Exactly. Amy sample ward, our social media scientist blogger for the stanford social innovation innovation review membership director for intend the non-profit technology network and her sight is aimee mann sample war dot org’s or dot com they both direct. Okay, amy, sample ward dot ford and you forgot one important title, which is the new est jargon jail keeper? No, i didn’t forget that was actually intentionally left that we’re gonna have trouble with boundaries. You’ve just created such an open, collaborative environment. There are limits, teo. Everything you’re going to learn this. Ok, thank you very much for being in studio a real pleasure and my thanks. Also, of course, to andrea nirenberg next week, your year end campaign. I was a blackbaud its conference b b con on monday, just this past in washington, d c and next week i’ll play the first of eight interviews that i did at that conference. This one will help you plan your year end campaign, and this is not a coincidence to see how now we’re in the fourth quarter. It’s october year end. You see this? This doesn’t just happen. These things have actually thought about strategically. Our legal team returns also next week. Gene takagi and emily chan from the non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco. What will they have? If you join the linked in group, you’ll know before the show because i don’t know yet and the linked in group, of course we have people from washington, d, c, peoria, illinois, and south carolina and pakistan. Are you in angie nierenberg when she departed actually told me oftheir that she’s going to posts a resource checklist on the linked in group and also the facebook page? So go to the lincoln group to find that i have my chronicle of philanthropy podcast called fund-raising fundamentals it’s a ten minute monthly podcast you’ll find on the chronicle of philanthropy website. You’ll also find it on itunes, wishing you good luck the way performers do around the world this week in estonian nail comey niall comey, may you get a nail in your tire i don’t know why the estonians want that it’s better than the other things i can think of. But just across the baltic from stock home is estonia, and on behalf of them, i’m wishing you a week of nail gumi our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam liebowitz, our line producer. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media, and there are boat producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I do hope you’ll be with me next week. One to two p, m eastern. Talking alternative dot com handup. I didn’t think that shooting. Good ending thing. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Nothing. You could. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Oh, this is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas. And mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? 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