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Nonprofit Radio for October 31, 2022: Team Care


Susan Comfort: Team Care

Susan Comfort wants you to go beyond self care, which we’ve covered over the last two weeks, to team care. Yes, take care of yourself and your friends, then look after your team. She’s founder of Nonprofit Wellness, and this was part of our coverage of the 2021 Nonprofit Technology Conference. This week’s show is intentionally short, so you can spend more time taking care of self and team.


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[00:02:08.01] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Arsene Asus if you poisoned me with the idea that you missed this week’s show, Team Care. Susan comfort wants you to go beyond self care, which we’ve covered over the last two weeks to Team Care. Yes, take care of yourself and your friends then look after your team. She’s founder of nonprofit wellness and this was part of our coverage of the 2021 nonprofit technology conference this week’s show is intentionally short so you can spend more time taking care of self and team Antonis Take two. Endowment Panel Takeaways sounds fascinating. Were sponsored by turn to communications. I just can’t wait for that. Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o I can’t wait for endowment panel takeaways and by fourth dimension technologies I Tion for in a box. The affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D just like three D but they go one dimension deeper here is Team Care. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 N. T. C. You know what it is? It’s the 2021 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by turn to communications Turn hyphen two dot c. O with me now is Susan comfort Founder of nonprofit wellness Susan Welcome back to nonprofit radio Thanks

[00:02:10.57] spk_1:
great to be here

[00:02:11.52] spk_0:
it was roughly a year ago last aPril when 2020 20 N. T. C. Was not in person. And we talked with uh mo abdullah about coronavirus and team care.

[00:02:24.53] spk_1:
Indeed. And here we are a year later and we’re facing the same issues except worse.

[00:02:30.79] spk_0:
Yes because it’s multiplied by because we’ve been in this for over a year.

[00:02:36.05] spk_1:

[00:02:36.99] spk_0:
Okay. And so your topic is very very similar. Team care. Not self care building resiliency in an era of burnout should be resilience should have been resilience. Not resiliency

[00:02:50.69] spk_1:
building resilience building resiliency. I think they both work.

[00:03:08.64] spk_0:
You do all right. I think one works better than the other. All right. I have to I’m not I’m not strictly I’m only a curmudgeon. I’m not a grammarian or uh Entomology. I’m not an entomologist. I’m just curmudgeonly. Got it for some reason. I see. Billion resilience. Alright.

[00:03:12.81] spk_1:
Hey as long as you build it. I don’t care what you call

[00:03:22.79] spk_0:
we’ll get. We’ll be resilient. We’ll be resilient. All right. So uh yeah we need to keep taking care of ourselves and our teams through this and and beyond right Beyond the pandemic. We still gotta be thinking about Team care.

[00:03:27.81] spk_1:
Well let me ask you this. What does self care mean to you? tony

[00:03:31.34] spk_0:
I can give examples. Is that what you is that what you

[00:03:33.58] spk_1:
mean? Like it

[00:04:17.89] spk_0:
means uh not so occasional daytime naps. It means um a glass of wine. Maybe. No not every night but several nights a week. Glass of wine after work. It means ending work at a decent time even know, Well, even before the pandemic, my home has always been in my office has been my home for about 15 years, maybe 20 years. So, uh, but you know, so I don’t have trouble closing the door. So there’s that boundaries around time, in terms, in other words, um, there’s some examples. Walk on the beach. I live across the street from the beach and the ocean. So walks on the beach. Examples. And why do I think it’s important because I can’t, I can’t be good to other people if I’m not good to myself first. And I, I take that to heart. And I think I take good care. I mean I exercise, I eat right? I’m cautious about too much meat and processed foods and things, you know, so there’s a lot, there’s a lot that goes into it for me

[00:05:19.36] spk_1:
and we all have the same human body. And so we’re feeding it, we’re resting it, we’re hydrating it and we’re moving it. Those are physical kind of self care impetus is right that you just gave some great examples of, and we know that we’re in charge of self care, right? There’s nobody else in charge of our body. And we’re told that we’re in charge of self care. Hey, don’t forget to self care, take time for self care. Set your boundaries. Well, guess what in the nonprofit world. And in the education world where we’re increasingly working people aren’t so great at self care naturally on their own remind me of self care, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to do it or do it well. And

[00:05:20.01] spk_0:
particularly we’re working in our homes, it’s so easy to, to lose the boundaries between work and personal. That’s where you’re not allowed in, you’re not allowed in after six PM or you know, but, but if you’re not accustomed to that, you got thrown into it in an instant, there was no, there was no teachings going on in, in, in february and early March about how to do this. You got, you got slammed with it.

[00:07:25.73] spk_1:
And at first we saw it maybe as a benefit like, hey, no commute. But then we thought, ah, that commute was the one hour a day I had to myself or to listen to the radio or to listen to my book or to detach and create that boundary from work to home. Now. You’ve been working from home for a while, you’ve kind of gotten practice at this, but you’re right. Everyone else is kind of new to it. Not so good at it. And being told in a time of unprecedented stress and pandemic. Hey, don’t forget about self care when you know what, we probably weren’t good at it to begin with. And so that’s why, well that’s one reason why we focus on team care because we’re just not good at self care. And the second reason is especially in a world where we’re serving others were educating others were giving to others in the nonprofit world, we are usually, but it’s also because we’re in this unprecedented time, self care won’t cut it going back to the regular old normal we used to have isn’t gonna work, it wasn’t working then we weren’t caring for ourselves particularly well then. And it’s not getting any better with bad solutions on a new framework. So we have to take this new framework, a pandemic informed world and say, well, how are we going to do things differently next time when we return to the office is what’s going to be different when we return to our teams, how we’re gonna manage differently. How are we going to work from home differently? How are we going to communicate differently? All of these things are opportunities to reset our culture. So we, we coached teams, nonprofit schools, etcetera, how to take that world changing energy and reset your culture. So we’re actually turning our superpowers on each other, taking care of each other, which were really good at doing so that we can take care of ourselves better because having longevity in this career is crucial turnover is a silent epidemic facing the nonprofit and education worlds, some of its measured often it’s not, but if we don’t keep people in these jobs longer term, keep the relationships, keep the commitment, keep the knowledge, then we’re not going to do a very good job at educating Children are changing the world.

[00:07:49.90] spk_0:
All right. You have some resources for for us taking care of ourselves. You have a personal stress prescription and a stressor scorecard.

[00:07:59.84] spk_1:

[00:08:00.29] spk_0:
we can. We first of all, can listeners get these somewhere or is it something you create on your own? You don’t need a template?

[00:09:55.01] spk_1:
Well, both. You don’t need a template. We created it for you to use as a discussion tool or a self care tool, but you don’t need our form what we did and you can download it at non profit wellness dot org slash resources. What we did was put together a list of about two dozen evidence based stress relief solutions. The these are things that have been studied that are proven to both either lower your cortisol, the stress hormone is released when we’re stressed or to reset our bodily systems or to relax. S and there’s good and bad things on the list. Or quote good, quote bad, right? Like friendships you might think of as good, but some friendships are toxic right intoxication you might think of as bad. But actually you have a glass of wine some nights it’s good, you mentioned it as part of yourself care, right? But for some people it might be a challenge. Um I stopped drinking three years ago for me it was more of a challenge than a benefit. And so I cut it out because that was easiest, but everybody has to make their own decisions. Is it a glass of wine? Is it? None at all. Is that? Hey, I need to go out for happy hour more because I’m a little uptight. Like you get to make your decision on the personal stress prescription what works for you and I guarantee there’s stuff on the list. You’re already doing great, celebrate that. Do it more because that’s low barrier to entry if you’re already doing it. And then there’s stuff on that list that maybe you should pick up something new, something different, new world new strategies. And then there’s stuff on that list that you could really be doing with a team doing with somebody else and that’s going to help you actually do it have more fun, go longer. And those are the things that we need in our wellness, right? When we actually do it, when we have fun and when we go longer and harder, right? That’s what having a buddy or having a team and accountability aspect to our care. That’s what it does for us. And the research shows it. So we need team care, not self care. I mean not just self care, we need team care and self care, but we like to be a little bit polemic and say team care, not self care because we want to differentiate ourselves from everybody deciding self care, don’t forget.

[00:10:20.55] spk_0:
Alright. Alright, but we need both. Right, so these are at nonprofit wellness dot org slash resources? I did not. Now I’m bringing out my curmudgeon again that I did not, I didn’t I didn’t uh I didn’t miss that. You snuck in template, It’s template template. How do you get template Maryland? You marylanders born and raised in Maryland. I was in New Jersey weren’t that far away, but it’s template, not

[00:10:38.82] spk_1:

[00:10:44.06] spk_0:
U R M U D G E O N. Well, because I hustled you about resiliency being wrong if

[00:11:02.27] spk_1:
I want to talk real ball Marie’s I say would er and I say you can go down the ocean and you can walk on the beach all you want hon but you don’t have to invite me or you can have your own self. You want me to do a Maryland accent the whole time? tony I’ll do it. That

[00:11:03.51] spk_0:
sounds annoying. Um So yeah, I

[00:11:06.56] spk_1:
worked at a crab house five summers. I’ve got the Baltimore accent down pat.

[00:11:10.16] spk_0:
You worked at a crab house.

[00:11:12.14] spk_1:
Indeed a

[00:11:13.25] spk_0:
serving, serving.

[00:11:14.65] spk_1:
Yeah, yeah. Even after I was a vegetarian, I served recently killed esteemed crabs right onto your table. Dismember.

[00:11:22.07] spk_0:
Alright, so as a vegetarian, is it inappropriate for me to ask you what what what type of crab meat you believe is best for crab cakes is the lump is the jumbo lump?

[00:11:32.81] spk_1:
I’m a lacto ovo crab. Oh vegetarian so I’m authorized to speak on this matter. Of course it’s back fin

[00:11:39.37] spk_0:
back. You

[00:11:43.66] spk_1:
can put anything in the crab cake. But you want jumbo lump and very few breadcrumbs.

[00:11:45.52] spk_0:
Wait wait, wait, wait. You’re saying it’s back then and jumbo lump.

[00:11:49.37] spk_1:
Well, they’re the same thing. Jumbo lump is just the bigger chunks of back fin.

[00:11:57.51] spk_0:
Right, well, right, the lump or jumbo lump, you get a mixture back then and some lumps usually in the top of the container in the bottom of the container.

[00:12:02.47] spk_1:
If you say so, I pick my own crabs. tony If you say that’s what you get. That’s what you get. Just get the best crab meat you can buy in the biggest chunks you can. And if you’re like me, you can pick your own make your own crab suit, make your own crab cakes. Just not too much bread. Okay, it ruins the crab cake.

[00:12:26.03] spk_0:
Right? Not too much. I agree. I just made a batch with very low gluten free plank. Oh, but it was £2 of crab meat. And I think A third, maybe I guess it was 2/3 of a cup. I think of

[00:12:30.07] spk_1:
if we’re gonna be It’s Panko not plank. Oh, tony

[00:12:34.46] spk_0:
Did I say plank. Oh did I say plank.

[00:12:37.17] spk_1:
Oh, I’m

[00:12:38.66] spk_0:
gonna play this back. No, Did I say plank. Oh that’s embarrassing. I know it’s Panko.

[00:12:42.98] spk_1:
It sounded like it. You can edit that part out.

[00:13:00.00] spk_0:
Alright, I’m not gonna edit it. No, no. I called you out twice template, I’m not gonna not gonna cheat and edit out. But that’s embarrassing. I know it’s Panko. Of course, it’s Panko. Thank you for correcting me. Alright. It’s very important to know what kind of crab meat is best. All

[00:13:02.31] spk_1:

[00:13:04.65] spk_0:
So, All right. So, we take so we get these resources or we just develop our own

[00:13:09.97] spk_1:

[00:13:11.17] spk_0:
prescription and stressor. And a scorecard. Scorecard works with the prescription. Is that how they work together?

[00:14:11.59] spk_1:
Now? The scorecards under revision. So by the time your listeners here this, there might be a new one. We took the stressor. Scorecard which was based on the ace score card stands for adverse childhood experiences. And it’s actually a measure of childhood trauma. It’s quite triggering. But we took the a scorecard and we said, well, what’s the measurement of adult stress? There wasn’t one. So, we made one and we kept revising it and we’ve undergone another revision. Or instead of just ranking your stressors. And these are societal stressors, not work stressors. So, it might be identity related to who you are in society. It might be a circumstance related to what you’re facing right now in your life. So, a circumstance could be like a divorce or a food allergy that causes you stress an identity might be your gender, your race or your sexual orientation. That may or may not given where you are in society. May or may not cause you stress. So, if you know the score when you walk in the door, if you know your stress score from sin Society, then technically we should know who gets the most wellness resources. That would be wellness equity. If we knew who got the most stressed, then they would get the most wellness resources. But the way it is now is we give the corporate wellness resources because it’s a $7 billion dollar industry in the corporate workplace.

[00:14:29.40] spk_0:
But the

[00:14:48.96] spk_1:
nonprofit world and the education world don’t really get sort of wellness benefits or like extra help. Yet I would say that we are probably among the most stressed in society. Not only do we face a lot of stressors because of who we are and what we face in our lower incomes, but also we have really stressful jobs that are, that depend on us to literally change the world or change people’s minds and that is not the same as a bank job. Sorry. It’s just not. So we have more stress and we should get more resources than we do.

[00:16:16.89] spk_0:
We should get more resources than we do right? We, we definitely should. Yes. And at least as much as if you’re gonna write, if you’re gonna do it equitably at least as much as you see in the, in the corporate side, it’s time for a break turn to communications, the relationships, the media relationships that you want to have so that you can be heard when you need to be heard when the news merits attention on your work, your opinion of what’s happened. You need the relationships turn to can help you build them. They are themselves former journalists. So they have built relationships on the journalist’s side so they know how to do it and they know what not to do so that you don’t defeat your attempt at creating these these donor relationships. These media relationships right turn to can help you build up the relationships. So when you need to be heard you can be turn to communications. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o Now back to team care. Work

[00:17:12.30] spk_1:
hard. I didn’t go into those which is under revision is the strength the growth and the joy that we achieve from these identities and circumstances. So we actually put two scores on the new one where you can rank your stress but you can also rank your growth and joy. So for example, I’m a woman and I identify as queer being a woman and a white woman at that in society has not caused me a lot of stress but I would say some maybe a low amount of stress being queer in society has not caused me very much stress. But when I look at both of those and I think of how much growth enjoy being a woman has brought me and how much growth enjoy being bisexual has brought me as a part of the queer community that’s off the charts. I I rank much higher my growth and joy than I do my stress. And so in that way I go, hey, what a bonus that I have had this stress in my life. What an opportunity for growth and joy that this stressful thing brought me. And that puts it in a whole new frame for me I think, yeah, I face a lot of stress in my job and in my life. But look at how much I’ve grown and how much joy I get out of life. And so that’s our stressor, Scorecard revision. It’s now called the stressor and resilience scorecard because again, building resilience or resiliency is super important in a time of constant change and stress,

[00:17:47.69] spk_0:
Thank you for saying resilience first and then or or resiliency as the second alternative. Alright, so how do we then bring, I’m relentless If nothing else, I don’t let go. So how do we bring this now to a team level because it’s his team care and not self care. I’ve been wagging my finger, listeners can’t see, but I’m telling you, I’m wagging my finger. We’re distinguishing ourselves from all the all the nannies who say take care of yourself, how we convey this now to team care.

[00:18:31.65] spk_1:
Well, I’m glad your listeners can’t see us because there’s nothing better than nonprofit types wagging their fingers at other people telling them what they should do, right? Um it’s tony It’s really simple. All we have to do is talk about it. So bring a brown has many best selling books about vulnerability and shame and courage and she opines I mean the research show shows that when you are vulnerable, you inspire empathy and it’s really the height of courageousness to be vulnerable, it’s not opposites, they’re two sides of the same.

[00:18:39.93] spk_0:

[00:20:15.22] spk_1:
yeah. And so if you tony are a vulnerable leader and you’re courageous enough to say, hey, I’ve been struggling with my physical health in this way. So I’m going to take walks on the beach every morning and I’m going to have a glass of wine every night because that’s my plan for self care and I want you all to support me in that by not scheduling meetings during my walk time and not making fun of my wine selection or whatever it is, right? But by talking about it, people go, oh, tony is being vulnerable with me. That means I can be a little vulnerable with him and say, well, tony I’m struggling with some things in my physical health and I would like your support on this. Whatever it is, it doesn’t mean somebody has to go on the beach with you. It just means that they have to support and know that that’s something that you need for your mental or physical health. And when we talk about ourselves, we, we become a little vulnerable, but we keep ourselves safe usually. And then other people have empathy for us because we made ourselves vulnerable and that builds trust and trust is the elusive element that so many teams are missing. And so if wellness can be kind of a shortcut to that great, But it just means we have to talk about it. That’s why we create discussion tools. We want you to be able to talk about this with your team openly vulnerably and honestly, but also like have, you know, have something to get out of it. Maybe you all could support a new direction with your team care based on your discussions. Maybe instead of, you know, pastries in the kitchen, you’re gonna have nuts in the kitchen because it’s healthy or maybe you’re gonna go for group walks or, you know, measure your steps together. Those are all physical things. But where we really get into the interesting stuff is when we talk about mental health things, which is a little less accepted at work. But that’s the most important thing of of what we’re doing

[00:20:33.61] spk_0:
okay before we get to mental health? Let’s let’s keep a little simpler. A little safer. How do we just Open these conversations just like are we are we having a meeting for this purpose or is this 10 minutes? Uh, at the beginning of a one hour meeting all

[00:22:18.09] spk_1:
of the above. So, you know, if you have a meeting about it, then that sounds like a wellness committee and that would be great because a wellness committee could definitely, you know, be a diverse group of voices that pushes the agenda forward rather than like one yoga nut in the office, which is who I used to be, right. But if you don’t have time for a wellness committee or you’re not ready for a wellness committee yet. No problem. Just at the beginning of every meeting, maybe you ask a checking question that has to do with health. So like what did you do already today to support your mental or physical health? That’s a quick check in question. And people will think about, what did I do today? What does walking my dog count? Maybe walking my dog counts as physical and mental health. Yeah. Walking my dog. I’m gonna walk my dog more because that’s really good for health, right? It makes them think about things in a different way and it makes them share. Maybe people didn’t know you had a dog. Maybe somebody would like to go for a dog walk with you. Maybe somebody, you know, would like to bring their dog into the office and they know that since you have a dog, you’re going to be more open. And I mean there’s many directions these conversations can go, but you just have to open it up. So it’s usually like a checking question or maybe a lunch and learn or a brown bag lunch where everybody could talk about these things, but I would say set and set a topic. Um maybe it’s nutrition. Maybe it’s some specific aspect of nutrition. Maybe it’s movement. You know, these are things that are safe and yet they affect our mental health. So if we start talking about physical things that affect our physical health, then we’re going to start to get into, well, you know what, when I take, when I exercise, I feel happier. Well, that’s mental health. And so you’re gonna start talking about mental health, even though you’re talking about how you’re feeding, moving and resting your body, which is physical.

[00:22:29.57] spk_0:
Mm Okay, by the way, if you were the yoga nut, then I guess you would have been pushing up against me the curmudgeon if we would have been in the same workplace.

[00:22:39.23] spk_1:

[00:23:13.65] spk_0:
I’m not, you know, this is a recent, a recent um, revelation for me that I’m a little curmudgeonly. I see it in my neighborhood. Like, you know, my, my neighbor across the street has has a big piece of construction waste in a role that that, that the garbage people are not gonna pick up because it’s been there for over a week. You have to put your garbage in a can. It’s gotta be, it’s gotta be an authorized can with wheels and it’s got to face the right way, but they’re not gonna pick up this guy’s big tarp, but he leaves it out there, you know, that that bothers me looking at it right now. It’s annoying. It

[00:23:15.46] spk_1:
sounds like it causes stress. Well

[00:23:17.71] spk_0:
it shouldn’t be there. It’s not part of it is the injustice of it because he knows it’s not gonna get picked up. It’s been there over a week and we have garbage pickups every monday and friday. So it’s not going if it didn’t go the first day, it’s not going the next or the next after after that. So it’s the injustice of it. I I follow the rules he should do.

[00:23:36.19] spk_1:
I think neighborhood,

[00:23:54.70] spk_0:
neighborhood beautification, you know, put that tarp out there on a big role, may be the next neighbor will put a little load of concrete after he after he takes his grill out of the concrete slab that has been in and he leaves a little two ft chunk pile of broken concrete there

[00:23:56.26] spk_1:
goes the neighborhood

[00:23:57.32] spk_0:
liberties and then the next and the next next thing I have to sell my home

[00:24:13.58] spk_1:
that would be terrible. Hey, get a big piece of chalk and create some sort of art out of that rolled up tarp. Maybe it’s a caterpillar, maybe you write a note on the street in chalk like I don’t know, I can’t think of a

[00:24:16.68] spk_0:

[00:24:17.43] spk_1:
that would be curmudgeonly. You

[00:24:18.68] spk_0:
want that kind of

[00:24:25.57] spk_1:
hilarious. You used to be a comedian. Be hilarious. tony something funny, make them laugh, you

[00:24:57.43] spk_0:
know what I was laughing about recently. I learned. David Sedaris has a home in my town and a lot of people in town have pretentious names on their homes. Like when I moved here it was seven seas. I had that the first thing I had a contractor to rip that stupid seven seat. First of all, it’s the atlantic ocean, it’s not a C. So it’s misnamed and second of all these names are pretentious David Sedaris has his house name is C Section. How good is that? How brilliant is that? Go right to the heart of the pretense. And I, so if I had thought of C section, I would have had a contract and make those letters but he took that one. But yeah, you’re right. I could put something in chalk. I have chalk too because I have uh

[00:25:14.12] spk_1:
Laughter out loud is one of our top 12 immune boosters. We

[00:25:19.16] spk_0:

[00:25:38.70] spk_1:
topic because laughter laughing out loud actually is one of the 12 immune boosters that are masters of public health interns research to find the cheap easy, Absolutely. Scientific based immune boosters and laughing out loud is at the top of the list. So you will boost your immune system and everybody on the street if you can figure out something funny to do with that rolled up tarp, I will follow up with you tony to figure out what it

[00:25:47.00] spk_0:
was. Okay, the caterpillar is a good idea. I’ll keep, I could make it a big turd but that’s kind of

[00:25:54.04] spk_1:

[00:25:55.24] spk_0:
you know like

[00:25:56.21] spk_1:
dinosaur turd, you know like make up north Carolina dinosaur breed and say like this is the ancient, you know,

[00:26:03.79] spk_0:
it’s a fossilized brontosaurus turd.

[00:26:06.87] spk_1:

[00:26:08.24] spk_0:

[00:26:09.41] spk_1:
getting there. You’re getting there.

[00:26:10.45] spk_0:
I’m amusing myself not. You know, I’m sorry. But that’s the wellness. Alright.

[00:26:15.17] spk_1:
Just did it did it for yourself. Right then. It makes you laugh rather than making you stressed out.

[00:26:20.09] spk_0:
Okay. But I’d like something for the community to be able to chuckle at two.

[00:26:23.98] spk_1:

[00:26:24.43] spk_0:
All right, this is not

[00:26:27.35] spk_1:
or anything but your tony-martignetti and that’s not

[00:26:48.79] spk_0:
right. Okay. I write I know my place. I know my place. All right. So this has turned into an individual mental health exercise which is not supposed to be so But this curmudgeon thing is just evolving in my mind about how I’m you know, traditions, there’s importance around laws and tradition and you know, so human. I might have clashed. Uh But I wasn’t curmudgeonly when we would have been in the same workplace. This is only within the past few weeks. I’ve come to this revelation

[00:26:57.95] spk_1:
blame it on the pandemic. That’s what we’re all doing

[00:27:01.28] spk_0:

[00:27:02.07] spk_1:
bad personality traits on your lifetime

[00:27:05.77] spk_0:
practice. It’s a lifetime practice, right? It is

[00:27:09.41] spk_1:

[00:29:41.20] spk_0:
So, you know in this phase I have curmudgeonly maybe in six months or six years. I’ll be out of it. It’s time for a break. Fourth dimension technologies. I. T. Infra in a box. It’s the I. T. Buffet. You go through the line. you take what looks appealing to you what fits within your budget, what fits within where you are technology wise like help desk security assessment, planned planning and budgeting, moving to the cloud and there is more on the buffet line. You choose what works for your nonprofit, leave the rest behind. You needn’t buy it, you needn’t pay for it. That’s for D’s I. T. Infra in a box. Fourth dimension technologies tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant as you know It’s time for Tony to take two. The long awaited endowment panel takeaways. Yes I was part of an endowment panel about a month ago or so graciously hosted by an ex unite uh part of nexus marketing. And this panel was called endowment excitement, fundraising and management. I was the fundraising part. And the other three folks were the management part. Either the fundraising part is very shallow because only 1 to 3 ratio or it takes three of them to equal the uh prowess of the fundraising Panelist. Well I’ll leave that to you for you to decide. And the way you can decide is to read the takeaways that I have on the blog. The panel takeaways you will find at plant giving accelerator dot com plan Giving accelerator dot com And you click blog and the takeaways are right there That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got just about a butt load more time for team care with Susan comfort because this week’s show is shorter so that you can do the care that Susan is talking about, you have some skills like you your your workshop identified but you have some like skills we can practice. Yes, you’re stressed for our teams and ourselves. Yes,

[00:29:51.99] spk_1:
I think this is a really good one. This is a really good one. Okay, so what I want you to do is look out the window and anyone listening, just look out the window right now, Tony is going to be looking at a giant tyrannosaurus turd across the

[00:30:01.49] spk_0:

[00:30:02.98] spk_1:
And uh you want to name five things you see out the window besides the brontosaurus turd, tony go

[00:30:17.91] spk_0:
the ocean, the walkway, the the little wooden walkway to the ocean. My neighbor’s homes who I don’t know too well I’m a little curmudgeonly and there’s my, my front yard landscaping which I’m very proud of.

[00:30:26.27] spk_1:
Excellent. What’s one of the parts of the landscaping? That’s number five.

[00:30:31.73] spk_0:
Oh the mexican petunias, They’re just starting to bloom

[00:30:34.90] spk_1:

[00:30:35.70] spk_0:
Well grow, they’re not blooming yet but they’re growing out of the ground green.

[00:31:08.58] spk_1:
You can see that their roots have taken hold. So that’s, that’s part of a mindfulness exercise where you name five things, you can see four things you can touch three things you can hear two things you can smell and one thing you can taste and it’s a, it’s an anxiety arresting exercise where if you’re feeling anxious, you’re worried about stuff you’re thinking into the future. You’re worried about the past. You come back to the present moment and how do you do that? Five things you see four things you can touch name them. Touch them. See them, say it out loud. That will bring you back to the present moment forces you because you’re engaging all five of your senses.

[00:31:21.19] spk_0:

[00:32:15.28] spk_1:
And that’s the best thing we can do for our mental health is be mindful. The second best thing is to move our bodies because moving our bodies trains our brain and so being mindful, being more mindful, being better mindful. These are all things we can do are things we can all do, being more movement, having better movement. Being movement oriented. These are things we can all do no matter how much we move, no matter how much we’re meditating or mindful. But mindfulness is just being aware of the present moment, but it takes us out of that worrying cycle, it takes us out of that rumination, prefrontal cortex and actually forces us to be in the present moment, which is a huge skill. I practice it every day for seconds per day. I’m I’m aspiring to get up two minutes. You know, just being mindful, Being present. That is a huge skill that I have been practicing a ton and that is a relief that I don’t have to become a meditator. I can just be a mindful person. What a relief. I don’t have to sit and meditate. I can just be mindful.

[00:32:24.14] spk_0:
Would you count down the five again please. Five things. You can

[00:32:27.19] spk_1:
see more things.

[00:32:30.60] spk_0:
You can touch, three

[00:32:35.80] spk_1:
things you can hear. Two things you can smell and one thing you can taste.

[00:32:40.65] spk_0:

[00:32:42.18] spk_1:

[00:32:42.58] spk_0:

[00:32:44.90] spk_1:
just start in the moment like, oh I have a, you know old coffee taste in my

[00:32:50.77] spk_0:
mouth. It’s

[00:32:51.76] spk_1:
just that moment. That’s what I’m experiencing in this moment right now, you know?

[00:32:56.86] spk_0:

[00:33:12.79] spk_1:
So the skill that I would ask everyone to practice is just being present, just taking a present mindful breath several times a day. We take 20,000 breaths in a day. So try and make like three of the mindful ones, maybe 10. You know those are skills we can always practice and always improve and they’re actually good for your brain. It’s not just like woo, yoga teacher stuff.

[00:33:21.51] spk_0:
I like being mindful around food that I’m actually tasting it. I’m enjoying the texture smell. I like to I can smell the food before I taste it so that I get an extra sense of taste because the the aromas wafting over my palate.

[00:33:39.45] spk_1:
Yeah, like food. Like I’m going to have some sort of chickpea thing for dinner and I’m anticipating those chickpeas, you can cook the food mindfully and like be in the moment while you’re cooking and appreciating those textures before they get soft in the oven or you know, just all of the moments of food. It’s not just smelling it and eating it. It’s the anticipation, the preparation, the cleaning up the discussion about it, the laughs that you had over the meal. Like if you could be present for all of that, amazing.

[00:34:10.57] spk_0:
If we spend a little more time, I’ll give you your own your own show on non profit radio you don’t have to be. We’ve already been like a half an hour because I went on a diatribe about homogeneous and third and we turned it into a personal thing for me. Well, I’m the center of the universe. So I think that’s appropriate. We

[00:34:27.41] spk_1:
all are the center of the universe. In fact, we all are of our own little universe. Amazing.

[00:34:34.31] spk_0:
Oh, so that’s not so that’s not.

[00:34:38.97] spk_1:
But that’s why people love talking about themselves because they’re the center of the universe. And if you ask me a question of myself about myself. Well, thank God, somebody noticed that I’m the center of the universe. I would love to tell you about my food or my exercise or when I am most present. Yes, I would like to tell you about that because I love talking about myself. We all love talking about ourselves in some way.

[00:34:59.04] spk_0:
We do some, some of us more than others,

[00:35:01.26] spk_1:
some more than others. You know, you could just go on clubhouse and do your show their tony Have you thought about that,

[00:35:06.57] spk_0:
know what is clubhouse?

[00:35:08.70] spk_1:
Well, that’s a that’s a topic for another day. It’s an infant only iphone only app that is sort of taking over the social media world.

[00:35:30.37] spk_0:
We live obviously dated myself. I’m 59, so I’m not hiding. So I’m not familiar with clubhouse. Um, let’s see. Well, Alright, where can we spend a little more time? Susan comfort. Um, I don’t know. You tell me you’re the, you’re the person who thinks about this all the time. I only,

[00:35:35.50] spk_1:
I think everybody should stop listening and go outside and take a walk there listening while at

[00:35:41.30] spk_0:
the end of it. Don’t stop now. Keep listening until the end.

[00:35:44.53] spk_1:
No, you should stop. Stop now. There’s nothing of value coming later. Stop now. Turn it off. They won’t really tell me

[00:35:51.26] spk_0:
you’re killing my show. They’re not going to

[00:35:53.46] spk_1:
turn it off. They’re addicted to you.

[00:35:56.81] spk_0:

[00:35:57.00] spk_1:
can’t wait to see what curmudgeonly thing you’re gonna say next.

[00:36:01.61] spk_0:
Alright, so what do you want people to do? Stop,

[00:36:13.42] spk_1:
I want, I want to stop the interview. I want people to go actually take care of themselves, but in a team because that’s what I’m talking about? Team care, not health care. No, we usually end our trainings 10 minutes before the hour because we don’t want people to be back to back to back with meetings all day because then guess what? You don’t have any time to take care of yourself? So if anybody ever asks me if they like, do I have any other questions or what else should we do? I say we should stop doing this thing and go take care of ourselves. Go outside and take a walk on the beach. tony

[00:36:35.98] spk_0:
Okay, I’m gonna end the show which you so put together with the little sponsor message I have to put in and my tony take two and a blah blah blah. This is gonna be about a 36 or 37 minute show and usually they’re more like 45

[00:36:52.88] spk_1:

[00:36:55.62] spk_0:
five. I’m cutting myself short. No, they’re more like 50 to 50 to 60 minutes is 5050 50

[00:37:00.94] spk_1:
I have to say I can talk about this stuff for hours.

[00:37:04.31] spk_0:
No, no, no, we’re taking your advice now.

[00:37:15.97] spk_1:
No, I’m just saying have me back people can go listen to me on youtube, whatever, but you don’t need me. People need to go take care of themselves tony you’re keeping them from it. You

[00:37:17.91] spk_0:
were just teasing You were just teasing saying I can talk about this forever. I’m saying no,

[00:37:22.30] spk_1:
he said shut

[00:37:22.83] spk_0:
it off. So we’re shutting it off. Alright, we’re building this show around your advice. Alright, great. Susan comfort. Your pronouns, what are your pronouns

[00:37:33.64] spk_1:
she her and

[00:37:46.22] spk_0:
next time. Okay, I understood some of that. Susan comfort founder. non profit wellness, you can get the resources that you talked about the personal stress prescription and the new updated stressor and something else? Scorecard,

[00:37:57.54] spk_1:

[00:38:00.66] spk_0:
stressor and resilience not resiliency score card at nonprofit wellness dot org slash resources. All right, Susan, thank you very

[00:38:08.42] spk_1:
much. Hope to talk to you soon again on the beach.

[00:39:13.61] spk_0:
I’m sure you will. I’m sure you will. Thank you. And thanks to each of you for listening to nonprofit radio coverage of 21 NTC, the 2021 nonprofit technology conference next week. It will not be a replay of the fermentation show. I give you my word if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com Were sponsored by turn to communications. Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c. O. And by fourth dimension technologies i. Tion for in a box. The affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D. Just like three D. But you know, they go one dimension deeper. Our creative producer is claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our web guy and his music is by scott stein. Thank you for that. Affirmation Scotty B with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for May 19, 2017: Healthcare Funding Options & Leadership Options

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My Guests:

Chris Labbate: Healthcare Funding Options

You have options today! First, Chris Labbate walks us through fully insured; self funded; level funding & minimum premium, so you understand your choices paying for your employees’ health insurance. Chris is with Marsh & McLennan Agency.



Gene Takagi: Leadership Options

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Then, we talk leadership options with Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group. Co-CEOs anyone? How about holacracy?


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Oh, hi there. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host this is show number three hundred forty, the three hundred fiftieth non-profit radio is going to be coming up it’s on july twenty eighth, three fifty music comedy special news i hope you’ll be with me for three fifty i’m sending spies special a pre show special live listener love to the fans of crystal a bat this insurance guy has a big fan base that this guy’s, a rock star who sells insurance live listener love to chris’s special live listeners, and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with my own militia if you try to soften me up with the idea that you missed today’s show health care funding options today is options day first, kriss la bat walks us through fully insured self-funding level funding and minimum premium. So you understand your choice is paying for your employees health insurance chris’s with marsh and mclennan agency and shared leadership options. We talked leadership options with jean takagi are legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group co ceos. Anyone? How about holacracy shared leadership on tony’s? Take two. My finger is still wagging, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com for all his fans. And, of course, for everyone else. Here is crystal bat with health care funding options. My privilege to welcome chris lay back to the studio as regional executive vice president at marshall mclennan agency, chris is an authority on employee benefits, including customer driven health plans and alternative funding. He shares his expertise and twenty eight years of industry experience to help you see how innovative employee benefits and hr programs can lower your costs. The company is at mm a hyphen and e dot com crystal bat. Welcome to studio. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to be here. I’m glad you are. Thank you. Read your colleague last week. Mark. So you’re going to shine like mark shine did yes, i know you’re up to it. All right? So we are we’re talking about funding funding options for employee health. Let’s, let’s reassure listeners first, this is not going to be impacted by health care reform that may come or is not going to be impacted seriously, right? Yes, that’s that’s correct? Most likely, the funding options will stay the same. Okay? Because we really can’t predict what’s coming out of congress, but we don’t expect the general ideas around funding that you and i are going to talk about to be impact. Correct, okay. Right? We don’t make the show irrelevant in two weeks after. Okay. All right, so it turns out you don’t have to fully fund. I mean, i think probably the majority are ah, now i know you do have some stats, actually, but i’m thinking small and midsize non-profits probably most of them are just osili insured, fully insured, really insured plan. Correct, but you have options. Correct. So? So in a fully insured plan, you’re just paying a fixed monthly rate that the insurance carrier sets for your organization and if its profitable to them it’s profitable them. If it’s not profitable, they’re taking on the all the risk skin and losing out. Yeah, okay. They probably don’t lose out too often, though. I’m guessing they might lose one year, but they’re probably gonna lose two years in a row over the long term state business. They have to make profit. Okay. Exactly. All right, so i think pretty. Yeah. People are pretty accustomed to that. The fully fully insured and ah it’s easy it’s level payment, i mean, and you know exactly what to expect. Her employees have a set of benefits and it’s all easily defined and of course, insurance, company’s, managing it right. So we’re just talking about the financing of the benefit plans, right? So that’s, often transparent to the employees, don’t get involved with that. So the employer is just paying the fixed costs, and they’re all there are alternatives to the fully insured, called self-funding, which can be explored for more, most organizations, five employees on up. Ok, so even for the smallest organization, correct benny on the state. But, yes, okay, okay, cool. S so this is going to be impacted by state law. Also, correct, yes, all right. Um now, if we are, if we are self-funding then we’re taking on some risk, correct, you’re taking on a portion of the claims risk so that portion you’re going to fund as the claims come in, but what’s often misunderstood about self-funding is that there are insured components built into self-funding so it may not be at the same level that you have. You’re fully insured, fixed rate, right? But you do have insurance components to protect you. Two different suits to specific types. There’s ones called specific insurance to protect you against any one person having a claim over a certain amount. Okay, you decide is the employer and you purchased that coverage of twenty five thousand fifty thousand. If a claim hits that level, the insurance kicks in, and then the second is called aggregate insurance, which is protection that your total claims that going don’t go over certain amount. Okay? All right, so i got you. I got you so you can. There are some. Yes, there are some insurance protections built into self-funding. All right, now you do have some stats about, um um about what? What? The percentages are around. Who’s self-funding. And how it’s. Been changing since nineteen, ninety nine like percentage self-funding vs versus the full, fully, fully insured thank you write. So especially since health care reform has has kicked in there’s been a movement towards self-funding on dh that basically is benefiting employer groups that have a favorable risk of benefits around the country. They’re showing. About sixty one percent of covered workers that have health insurance through their employer are covered under some form of a self-funding plan. Yeah, well, okay, so almost two thirds correct under some form of self self-funding and that’s changed from nineteen, ninety nine that was forty four percent correct. A big change. Okay, okay, um, so if we’re if we’re going to consider this self-funding option, there are some different kinds of costs that we need to be aware of, correct. Right now, we’re just like we have about two minutes before break. So why don’t you just kind of tease out the idea of these different kinds of costs we have to be aware of? And then you’re not going to more detail. Perfect after right after that. So in general there’s, two categories of cost, you have your fixed costs that you’re paying on a monthly basis and you have your variable costs will be, which will be your claims costs as they come in. Ok, fixed, invariable. All right, we’re going to dive into that a little more. We take our break a minute and a half earlier, so and then kristen are going to keep talking, finding out what your options are around, maybe self-funding all are a part of your employee health stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent with chris sabat when we’re talking about funding options for your employee health now, christine, you do not have lots of letters after your name. Last week we had i says that mention mark your colleague market lots of letters especially easy, like sees after name there’s all your where’s, all your credentials, they’re all just built into yourself. Yes. You know, i’ve been in industry since eighty nine, and i have my master’s in finance and marketing. I’m just really the experience in the industry on the benefits side. Okay, okay. Your bona fide? Yes. Okay. Okay. All right. So let’s. Now, zai promised diving a little more on these. Some of these costs that you have to think about taking on if you were goingto fundez self-funding fixed costs like like what? Like what? So the first fixed costs you would have is your cost to administer the plan. And typically you’re hiring an insurance carrier or a company. It looks like an insurance carrier called a third party administrator to perform all the tasks that that insurance carrier would under a fully insured plan. So paying claims customer service id cards for employees booklets. So from the employees perspective, if they don’t know what the funding is, it looks and feels like a fully insured plan to them. There’s no difference. Okay, so you’re outsourcing this administrative work. Exactly. No need for you to hire people to be doing this for you. Exactly. Cos that’ll do it for you. Yes, at a fraction of the cost of a fully insured plan. Okay. Okay. Um and the what? What else? Fixed costs. There’s this ways that now we now we get into some of the insurance coverage mentioned earlier, protecting us against a really unhealthy employer employee or or or or or aggregate. Go ahead. Absolutely. So so most companies that self-funding will have two types of insurance associated with their plan and their purchasing this protection. And the first is called specific insurance protection against anyone large claim going over a predetermined amount. And as the employees you, you picked that amount, whether it’s twenty five thousand, fifty thousand and as that amount goes up, the premium associating it kind of goes down exactly. Okay? And the second type of coverage is called aggregate insurance. And that’s protection that your total paid claims will not exceed a certain amount. Okay. And that’s, very inexpensive coverage. All right. And so these air part of your fixed costs that you’re going to be absorbing? Yes, if you’re if you’re exploring self-funding, you’ll get a monthly bill with your admin costs and your stoploss costs all printed out per employee, just like you get a fully insured premium bill. Okay, okay. On. And then you had the variable costs, which is basically what you’re going to be paying out for doctor visits. Right, etcetera. That right. Exactly. So the variable cost will be the claim’s paid out for your employee population covered under the plan. And in general, when you’re purchasing your stoploss insurance, the underwriter at the stoploss carrier will determine what they expect. Your claims to be given your employee population and then they’ll determine a maximum exposure. So if your claims go above this maximum amount, the insurance will kick in and cover it. Okay, that maximum exposure is usually set ten to twenty percent higher than your expected claims for your popular do-it-yourself kush. Exactly. Okay, exactly. Now, what about reserves in all this? I mean, if we’re going to be doing that, we have to have money set aside for the payment of claim. Exact. Exactly. So when you first go into self-funding plan in the first few months, you typically will not see any paid claims. Somebody goes to a doctor today. It doesn’t get reported two to three weeks from now when it gets paid. Okay, so there’s a cash flow advantage upfront going into a self funded plan, but on the back and if you ever terminate a self-funding plan, there’ll be claims coming into the third party administrator or the carrier that need to be paid based on service states prior to when you terminated, right? Right. That’s called run out or term a terminal liability. Okay, yeah, while you were self-funding toe at the end mean, you benefited in the beginning, right at the end. Claims are still going to be coming in as you exact your i guess. Or now fully insured. And you ended your your self-funding crackers. But but so that has to be a reserve fund, right? Don’t law must require something like you’ve gotta have ah dedicated account or something with the money. For the old yes, so typically a joint bank account set up with the third party administrator there paying claims out of this account when you had that crash flow advantage at the beginning of the program when your first during out self-funding we recommend that you just bank that money and that’s setting up the reserves for the event if it ever happens where you cancel the self-funding plan, okay? And how about knowing? Oh, well, i guess that goes into your expected cost. Me knowing how much to put into this reserve correcting for for a decent sized organization, i don’t know, like ten employees, i mean, could conceivably be half a million dollars or something. I mean, i’m just numbers don’t stop my head, right? You’re going to be more precise, you’re probably gonna say, well, it’s gonna depend on age, right and correct help histories, etcetera and it’s broken out by the underwriters on a monthly basis. So, you know, so when you get your stoploss coverage, they’ll give you a claims factor per employee per month. And that is how you calculate the number of employees times that claims factor gives you your exposure for the expected exclaims focus and that’s the amount that’s got to go in this dedicated reserve for typically yes, now you can’t you can’t be using this money for other purposes correct it, sze designated restricted or something for the self-funding plan? Yes, it should be air marks for the self-funding plants. He had the money available to pay their letting your employees down your absolute, obviously seriously. Okay. Okay. We don’t want people run operating that. Okay, um all right. So we’re talking a lot about self-funding what are what are some of the reasons you that non-profit might actually think about doing it? There’s some advantages? Yeah. There’s some big advantage associate with self-funding the first is there are a bunch of hidden taxes and fully insured plan. So under health care reform, there’s four four and a half percent in taxes that get attacked right onto a fully insured great. Okay, now, health care reform. Today on the day now, we’re recording couple weeks earlier, then this is going to air. So health care reform by that you mean the affordable care act? Correct? Or obamacare? Correct. Okay, not something that may be happening in congress in april of this year in may of this year is that right? That’s correct. So in the affordable care act, there’s a tax on non-profits that are any fully insured krauz any fully insured plan has attacks built into it that gets funded, the funds go right towards offsetting the cost of the affordable care act. Was it attacks on the amount of premium? You correct? Oh, interesting. Okay, right. Forty five percent you sent were correct and there’s also in some states and local taxes that get applied to fully insured plans. So when your self-funding you’re circumventing the state rules and some of these fully insured taxes at a federal level, yeah. Okay. All right. This one advantage. All right? What else are there? Other reasons it we have? Ah, younger, healthier group. You’re going to benefit because you’re paid claims will be much lower then expected or similar to expected. And then you’re paying less than you would under a fully insured plan now wouldn’t and ensure offering full insurance? Wouldn’t they be factoring in that you have a younger, healthier workforce. So health care reform change some of the factors that go in. They do account. For age coverage, tear with a single or family coverage if you’re a smoker or a nonsmoker, but generally you’re paid claims in a small group will not count towards calculating your rate. Wait a minute, we better impact that statement. Hold on, you’re paid claims in a given group will not will not what? I came here if you’re unaffiliated, if you’re in a fully insurance plan small group market? Yes, your claims do not drive your rates typically. Oh, they don’t correct because it’s the law of large numbers, they’re playing, they’re not going to base your rates on your claims. If you’re five people or ten people that’s what healthcare form actually did away with to try to stabilize the small group market just like those of us who are individuals, we go to the exchanges. It’s my premium is not at all based on my history could i mean, i think they might have asked if i’m a smoker. But that’s all yes, that’s one of the factors taken you okay? So we’re getting very small. So that’s at one end of the spectrum, tiny individual. I see what you’re saying. They’re all right there it applies to small groups as well. So i’ll give an example of you if you’re in a fully insured plan, you’re paying fixed rate every month and say your premium comes to one hundred thousand dollars a year. Okay, now, if you wanna self-funding plan, you’re paying your fixed costs, which might be twenty or thirty thousand will estimate and then there’s seventy thousand and projected claims what your claims only coming at ten thousand, you’re only paying ten thousand wonderful insure plan you pay the full hundred thousand still alright, so there’s an opportunity here for a new organization to engage in employee health, health, health and wellness, right? Yes, if you’re going to go fully every, i’m sorry if you’re goingto self-funding you can enjoy some benefits of every every, every two weeks, we have a five k run or, you know, whatever i say, right? I mean it’s perfect segway twenty foot that one of the next advantages. If you have an active wellness program where you’re engaging your employees and getting healthy, that can parlay into fewer claims and under self-funding plan, you benefit directly from that you’re not paying out claims on un employees that don’t go to the doctor. Okay? What size organization do we have to be? Or was it eliminated completely under affordable care act, where they would start looking at our claims history and our wellness programs? If we were going fully insured so it vary state by state eso it khun b fifty employees, one hundred employees and and more. All right, you have to be that size for them to start factoring in your individual act. Your program’s done. But i mean, you could have, like, smoking cessation. You could have, i don’t know. Organization provided fitbits and everybody’s got eight or ten thousand step daily minimum, right? You can have all kinds of programs to try to save yourself. Money. Those air, those air common wellness programs. There’s not innovative thinking, innovative now company and fried. It provided fifty. Now they’re doing that. Yes. Alright. I thought maybe i had some some great insights. Okay, um all right. So i just happened to be a big wellness fan so you could save some money if you doing self insurance. Self-funding self-funding i should say on and there’s a couple there’s. A couple more advantages. Get more transparency. You see, you’re paid claims were under fully insured arrangement. You typically do not especially smaller employers, so you don’t get to see the claims them all employers typically, we’ll not see their claims history because they’re not allowed or that usually carrier policy not to give out paid claims to smaller employers, especially if they’re rates aren’t dictated by plane. So that gives you the ability to better budget for future costs because you have all the information and it helps you design with plan design. So if you know people are over using the emergency room, you might up the co pan the emergency room copay and you might lower the copay on your urgent care centers or tele medicine to try to drive people with lower cost setting. Yes. Okay, so you could drive some behaviors. Okay. I could see that there’s one last one. It gives you the ability to not have to include state mandated benefits in your plan. And that’s, a big benefit for companies who have people across state lines because they can provide one seamless plan designed for all their employees. You say companies. But we non-profit organizations exactly. All right. So different. States have different mandated benefits, correct packages? Correct. Okay, i saw a bit of a little i mean, this is kind of interesting, well, privacy issue coming out of what you were just saying, if you’re self-funding you’re able to see claims history now you know who the unhealthy people are, right? Who’s got bad behaviors, etcetera mean, who wrecked a lot of so the reporting khun b done where’s d identified which just means you’re seeing general information, but it is if you have a smaller the company, you might be able to identify who those people are. S o typically you would want tohave an internal privacy policy, which which follows the hip national privacy standards with a privacy officer and a policy in place to protect that information and only have certain people buy-in certain people given access to the information within your organization. Ok, ok, that actually dovetails with what? What mark and i talked about last week levels of compartmentalization correct categorization, i believe he called. Okay, um, who typically would be looking at this data if we’re going self-funding who looks at this on a monthly basis so typically be somebody in hr maybe. Something in finance and it’s almost it’s, almost always d identified so you know, you’re not going to know who the people are, but they’re looking at it, just seeing what claims were being paid out and budget and future years, and then also the behaviours trying toe like you said, friends instance, if we see emergency rooms being overused, correct plan design, and then we could also just have meetings about listen, people, you know, you’re hurting our you’re hurting the organization by using the as your primary care or something like that, you know, you’re hurting. We’re trying to stay self-funding for for the these reasons because we think it’s better for you then than being fully insured. But you’re making it hard for us to do so right? Get a primary care physician. Yeah, you can have meetings about the right can you talk about? You can talk about that, you can have any things. And you, khun target wellness programs like you reference if you see your population has a history of high blood pressure or a lot of smokers, you can use that information to taylor educational program. Bring people in current, bring people in to talk about hypertension. Manage? Absolutely. Okay. Diabetic diabetes management? Yes. If people are having a lot of diabetes related issues. Okay. Okay. All right. So we still have some time left. What? My voice just cracked still. What? What happened? I asked you what else? What else could we talk about? Some of the some of the negatives with self-funding. So if you’re moving to a self funded arrangement, you have the variable cash outlay potential. So one month your claims can be very favorable. The next month you can have high claims. You do have those reinsurance caps built in protection. Stoploss is you’ve already examined all the jargon. I got tongue now, stoploss but you can still have some variants and some come organisations prefer the fixed costs associated with a fully insured plan. You know what you’re paying your budget for it and that’s your costs for the year where self-funding can vary over the course of twelve months. Okay, um, how does it work? This is a very basic question. But if you if you are self-funding, how does it work in terms of a network of hospitals and doctors? Have you that’s? Good cause. You choose what providers are available to your employees. So when when you hire the third party administrator or insurance carrier to administer the plan there, providing that service for you so you can hire a big insurance company and use their network, you’re renting their network to access those discounts. That’s part of the administrative fees it gets broken out into network rental fee utilization management, he gets into a very a lot, a lot of details broken out, focus. Okay, well, because you can use somebody’s network and not be insured by the exactly you’re taking the risk, you’re just using them to administer the plan. Roger. Okay, i say interesting. Okay, um, what else? We still got a few minutes left, so that zoho your disadvantages of having any of that was that was one big one. The other one is if you ever want to get out of self-funding you have that terminal liability. So if you say i’m canceling my self-funding plan today, you’ll have a couple months of claims to pay out. Still for claims that were incurred prior to your cancellation date. And at the same time, if you’re signing up for a fully insured plan, you’re paying the fully insured rates so it’s like a double payment for a few months to get out of this self-funding plan. I got to get to cool things. I got terminal liability and stoploss yes was going around saying, you sound like a genius, alright stoploss german labbate that’s a term reliability problem on dh that i could touch on to two other quick thing before you do, though dahna the terminal liability i mean, could that could that go on for years? I mean, suppose someone made a claim while you were still self-funding and then they continue to have related issues to that claim like so i don’t know what a surgery that went bad or something, and then years later, they’re still having, like following surgeries to that infection from when you were self-funding what good question so it’s driven by the nhk earl date of the claim? So if i go to a doctor today and i’m self-funding today, it gets paid dahna self-funding plan for that same condition if i go to the doctor next month and next month i’m under a fully insured plan gets paid by the flame. Shirt plan. Oh, so the general liabilities just the run out. They call it from the from the self-funding period when people went to the doctor during that plan here. All right, so it’s not considered like a pre existing condition. Correct? Where the now insurance company, because you’re fully insured kicks is going is going to kick it back to you from what? Your self-funding days doesn’t work like that. Correct? It does not. Does not. Okay. Okay. All right. That’s, some reliability thisyou xero everywhere you’re in our daily lives. Term liability stoploss okay, what else you got? I could do real quickly to other hybrid type products between fully insured and self-funding. So you have some combination once called level funding, and this gives you the fixed costs of a fully insured plan where you paint a rate every month for employees. But at the end of the year, if your claims are favorable, there’s the potential to get a refund of a portion of the terrible claims. Oh, so you benefit if if claims air. Good. Act. Okay. And if claims are are not good. You’ve paid your rate for the year and you walk away. Okay, well, that’s, because you have what you want had some stoploss coverage it’s all built into, like, a fully insured rate. So you have that fixed rate, and then if your claims are favorable there’s something called a settlement done at the end of the year, you know, if you would get money back, but there’s no potential. The additional dellaccio more correct. Okay. And then you have you said in which another hybrid? Yeah. There’s there’s one more call the minimum premium arrangement. And this is sort of like a fully insured rate, but you’re carving out the claims part of it and your funding the claims as they actually come in. So similar to level funded. But you don’t have the wait till the end of the year to get the benefit of favorable claim get, like month the month? Correct. Exactly. Well, okay, so there’s. A lot of issues to think about, and i guess way just have, like, a minute and a half left or so, but i guess this all comes down to risk tolerance. Exactly. Do you do? Do you want to just write off the wrist completely and give it to an insurance company? Or would you like to get some of the benefits of doing it yourself and maybe even having healthier employees? But you’re taking on some of that risk. Correct your risk tolerance and your ability to handle some cash flow changes from one month the month with self-funding and it really comes down to analyzing what would my costs be under a fully sure plan. Total costs. What may cost being herself funded plan at the maximum claims that’s where the stoploss carrier says you would not pay more than that. Yes, you’re a total costs on. Then what would your cost be under the expected where they expect your claims to be? Given your employee population and looking at those numbers will give you a good feel for where he should be. Okay. All right. Crystal bat. Andi. I demoted him because he’s, a crystal bat is a regional executive vice president at marshall mclennan agency. Okay. I wanna thank you very much, chris. Thank you. Tony called my pleasure. Coming up. We have jean takagi and shared leadership options. More options for you first. Pursuant, they’ve got a new webinar. Big surprise. It’s free designing experiences. That inspired donorsearch every brand elicits a feeling, you know this like think disney, starbucks, united airlines and each of your donors has an impression of your organization based on their experience and interactions with you with your brand. On thursday, may twenty fifth, you can join lutheran, our ministries, brad never ary and pursuance senior vice president hillary noon and learn how to create immersive experiences that inspire greater engagement from your donors and potential donors. Brad is going to share how lutheran our explored the journey of a key audience identified opportunities to improve on their experience with his brand, and they put in practice places that are goingto make measurable impact trying to make change. Of course, this will be archived if you can’t make the live session, but if you can, you register at pursuant dot com quick resource is and then webinars we’ll be spelling who needs to engage millennials? Maybe you’re bored has raised that as ah as a possibility or a need. Do you feel it’s important for your sustainability? Perhaps what you waiting for? We be spelling dotcom get started for pete’s sake. Hosta fund-raising spelling bee. This is not your seventh. Grade spelling bee. You know this. Check out the video at we b e spelling dot com and then talk to the ceo alex career. Set something up or just get more information. We be e spelling dot com. Now, time for tony’s. Take two. That damn finger is wagging again. Are you properly registered in each state where you solicit donations? You need to be listen to my admonishing tone. It’s not going to stop. Where are you sending e mails? Sending direct mail hosting events, maybe buying ad space. Do you have a donate? Now button that admonishing tony’s not going away. Each of these things is a solicitation, and it triggers the registration requirements. Charity registration. You need to get it done. I can help you. You could do-it-yourself. You need to be in compliance in each state where you are soliciting donations. My video is that tony martignetti dot com that is the admonishing tony’s. Take two live lesser love. I’ve got a ton here in the united states of america and not too much abroad. Really. So let’s, uh, let’s. Start here in the us of a with tampa, florida. Very loyal, lifeless and live. Out to you special tampa. You’ve been with us for a long, long time. Woodridge in new jersey, swan’s borrow north carolina, new york, new york and brooklyn. New york really got two out of three borrows this week last week. Course we had all five. But brooklyn. I’m glad you’re with us. Manhattan. Thank you so much, but gives he with that westchester that’s. Not bad. North of the city. Poughkeepsie live. Listen, i’d love to you also, white plains neighbors in westchester live. Listen level so to newjersey caldwell, new jersey, hackensack, new jersey. Still no altum pandu jersey, where my mom and dad are sitting right now. Uh, moving ah! Moving way down south san marcos, texas live. Listen, love out to you, san marcos on then coming back to the northeast, stratford, connecticut were all over except on the west coast. I know what west coast person who’s listening but he’s on the line so it doesn’t count. Not this week. And let’s do germany got to live listeners in germany? We cannot see your they’re so concerned about privacy in europe we cannot see your cities in germany nonetheless live. Listen, love guten tag the podcast pleasantries. They got to go, you know that you’re tired of me saying it, but i’m not going to stop the podcast. Pleasantries have to go out to the over twelve thousand, listening in that method pleasantries to you. Thank you for being with us on your schedule on demand, and the affiliate affections were looking to grow that affiliate list. Our outreach director, belly, betty mcardle belly. No, she’s. Not ever. Billy. Betty mcardle is working on that. But for the effect for the affiliate stations that exist right now. Of course i am. And fm stations affections to you. So glad that you’re station includes us on your schedule. Thank you. Jean takagi is with us waiting patiently. He’s the one i was alluding to, um and he is the managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the wildly popular non-profit low block dot com and he’s the american bar association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer he’s at g tack on twitter and i believe he’s calling from an airport. Welcome back, jean takagi. Hi, tony. How are you? I’m very good. Very well, are you, in fact, in an airport? Is that what happened? I’m now at an airport hotel. A little bit better. Okay, where are you? What city you’re in? I’m in los angeles, los angeles. So that’s not far from you for san francisco. Okay. Okay. S a little background noise. I kind of like that. Mixes things up a little bit. Um, if anybody gets difficult while you’re on the phone, you know if you have to drop the phone, you know, and fight somebody off, just explain what you’re doing first before you just dropped the phone. Okay, i’ll make sure i hold them off, ok? All right, well, do what you have to do but inform me first that’s the first your safety is secondary to informing me that’s what? I’m that’s basically, what i’m saying, it makes understood, ok, thank you very much for that. So we’re talking about some shared leadership options. Um what? What brought this to your attention? You know, shared leadership has kind of been a little bit of a hot button issue recently amongst non-profits that are thinking of more equitable practices and in attracting younger people. Millennials, you might refer to the you know, to that group and say that they may not be is ingrained with the hierarchical structure that those of our generation tony, maybe comfortable within used to, and they’re really wanting tio have more of a say early on in their careers, so, you know, shared leadership issues, all sorts of forms are really starting tio to take hold in some practice on dh starting t gain in more popularity so are you seeing this? I guess mostly then in organisations where the leadership is thirtysomething or so well, you’re seeing it from from a lot of younger people, for sure. So living in the san francisco bay area in with silicon valley nearby, and this is not just a non-profit management or organizational structure, this is started in the for-profit world in this sort of spread into some non-profits but yeah, it’s a lot of younger tech companies, like suppose that that sort of kicked it, kicked it off some of experimented with it and left it like medium, but one of my organization that i’m on the board of a compass point non-profit services also experimented with holacracy and while it isn’t continuing in a whole keeping the whole model, we’re keeping aspect of it because you feel it’s really valuable. Okay, now i’m not going to put you in jargon jail because i know we are going to talk about holacracy but you just try to slide by me, and i want you to know that i’m quicker than you. So i i noted it, but you’re you’re you’re pardoned thiss time because where i know we’re going to talk about holacracy alright, so so sort of following from what you’re suggesting i can see the advantages there’s empowerment, there’s, there’s, there’s shared, there’s shared buy-in and empowerment of others. Yeah, and i think that works for leadership development with the team more people having more voices, teo impact what’s happening with the organization, what they’re doing, they become more interested in it that probably helps in recruitment and retention. It helps internal communication and collaboration, and it i think, necessitates cross training because you’re talking and trying to understand what your little part of the organization, how it may impact every other part of your if you’re one of the decision makers, are you’re making decisions as a group? You got to know the other three other parts of the the organization how your decisions are going to impact them. Yeah, i can see that this is not something you embark on overnight, right? Especially in the need for cross training and understanding. What’s going on across the crust of our organization for the thing people are going to be sharing in leadership now. Yeah, absolutely. The other, you know, benefit that has some people. Have been writing about it lately than it actually helps facilitate and succession planning. So we have more people who maybe pull, you know, in the pool of candidates to take over for for a ceo or an executive director. That maybe leaving the organization? Yes. Okay, that’s a good one, right succession plan. We’ve talked about that. Uh, ok, alright. See cem value. Um, but i see some potential downsides to this is going to be a lot more cumbersome for decision making. Yeah. I mean, you can imagine when you have too many chefs in the kitchen. I guess it is the metaphor analogy that people make on dh. So yeah, definitely neo-sage delayed decision making and that khun delay implementation of ideas. So you’re kind of the slow ship that takes forever to turn around. It can result in inefficiencies, and then you may lose opportunities, not acting’s. Quick enough cause confusion at the start. A cz you’re trying to figure out, you know, who’s accountable. How how do we, you know, make a decision? What if we’re split for? For what? If we start tio a form cliques within our organization and then we start to battle or engage in disputes with other factions of the organization. So their their potential bound falls that you have to actually really account for careful. Yeah, potential for open conflict. I mean, one of the things we’re going to talk about his co ceos and, ah, i mean, if the two people don’t agree. I don’t know. Yeah, get factions and jesus, you could start running like our white house. I don’t know. Okay, we’re gonna get to co ceos. All right, um, let’s. See? Well, we may as well go there. Um, what air you saying? Have you seen this? Have you have you seen this one in practice, where there were two ceos? Maybe any of your clients execute this? I mean, i’m just i’m just wondering if you’ve seen it firsthand co ceos, yeah, way have so definitely on. And i think this is actually becoming more of a trend, and i’ve seen it more in the nonprofit sector have limited exposure to for-profit sense since since i left that that world but i think you know, times are getting much more complicated. Management has also become much, much more complicated with, you know, technology changes non-profits are exploring earned income and advocacy and collaborations and employees laws are changing and then non-profit corporate and tax laws are ever changing, and right now there there’s some big, big changes that are planned, of course, on dh. So with all of that complexity, can one person really be the leader through the organization understand all of those those factors and be ableto lead the organization through all of it and that’s kind of why there’s been a little bit of a draw forming co ceos and succession planning is the other thing is, i think there’s supposed to be a huge turnover of executive lake leadership is the baby boomers are starting to age out of their employment, and they’re starting to retire on dh succession is, uh, is a problem if we don’t have adequately trained and experienced people in those roles, and coke co ceo platform’s can really help ease that problem. Ok, but with with all those issues that you mentioned for leaders to deal with, i’m not even sure that to people with their combined skills could manage, you know, can understand all that in the level of depth that that’s necessary. I don’t know, i’m not even sure two people could do it, so yeah, ee don’t know that i’ve ever seen three tio, no, but i’m just wondering if if i’m not sure to really adds that in my sense of it, too doesn’t really add that much more value. You could say it doubles, but i’m not even sure that’s enough, so if if i’m right, then why not just stick with one who has a strong team of people directly reporting to him or her it’s an interesting argument, tony, and indefinitely the single ceo structure is the one that were more comfortable with and probably the one that’s going to teach comin in for a long time still. But first, for some organizations, experimenting with two ceo structures can work out. And i think where we’ve seen this practically is where the two leaders share kind of a long term relationship, so they’ve already comfortable with how they work on dh, how they would make decisions together hyre the areas of responsibility, maybe divided so that one person has final decision making over these fears of the operation and the other one over other spheres, and sometimes, you know, in a very simplistic way, some people just refer to it is the internal management and the external management. Yeah, okay, some of that makes me makes me think of mika brzezinski and joe scarborough. I don’t know, okay, all right, let’s go out for a break and when we come back, jean, i’m going to keep talking about the shared leadership options. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy, tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m peter shankman, author of zombie loyalists, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent um, jean, i’m thinking this is goingto take some time to to implement and, uh, before you start to reap benefits from it, if you if you do it’s not you, you’re not going to see this immediately. The advantages? Yeah, you know, i think it’s going to take an investment on depending upon what level of shared leadership you’re talking about co ceos is probably the a fairly simple level, relatively speaking of shared leadership, but yeah, it’s going to require an investment, it may take a failure, teo, actually get it going the way you want it. So there’s definitely a lot of learning. It relies on it, you know, having a shared vision and common values amongst the shared leaders on if you don’t have that established, you really shouldn’t do this. You have to be careful of the amount of money, time and other resource is that you’re going to have to invest because that’s all got to be budgeted in if you don’t incubated and invested and nurture it, it means it’s probably not going to work. We’re also gonna need a lot. Of patients among our staff. Yeah, yeah, i think that’s absolutely, absolutely right. You run the risk of having that go to mom, go to pop kind of run things, right? Good cop, bad cop. Yes, right. Somebody’s, thie other ones said this, but i said no. So i’m coming to you, right? Right? You got to beat that stuff down. All right? Interesting let’s go to one that i want to make sure we spend enough time on this. To me, it sounds like anarchy, but you’ve said your organization you’re on the board of is doing some of this. The pro you call it program autonomy is what is that? So the general idea and they’re different forms of this, but this this is on the other end of the spectrum of complexity. So this is a complex form of shared leadership where each program or each division oven organization is fairly autonomous, so doesn’t all rely upon going to the ceo on the ceo makes the final decision. Each group within the organization which might be divided into programs, will make their own decisions now don’t know, probably be working with the budget that’s been approved by the board on then segregated out into the different programs. So they know what the operating rules are within within their group. But figuring out how to distribute the leadership and that’s the one of the buzzwords, sum, sum. Avoiding drug in jail again, it’s. Really just distributing the leadership amongst the different programs or the different groups within the organization and there’s. One particular type of model that i mentioned earlier, which i should have waited until we got to this segment. That’s called holacracy on dh. That is a particular form of distributed leadership, where the different groups that that are taking on these local decision making authority rolls are called circles. No, james, no, jane. Yeah. Can you still hear me? Yes, i hear you. Okay, last thing we heard you say was holacracy is made up of circles, but you need to explain. Yeah, so you know, generally the way holacracy works is so it’s a form of program autonomy, although again, the circles or self managed groups don’t necessarily have to be divided into a program that could be divided into function. So there might be one for fund-raising for service delivery, for grants, for events, for public communications. So however, you decide you want to divide up the circles, it’s going to be an iterative process where you’re always modifying it. So every month you’re going to consider whether you should have the same circles or different circles, and each individual is actually going to take a role with multiple circles, and in some cases they’ll be the leader of a circle that’s going to help decision making and help facilitate that circle or that group of individuals within that circle to make a decision. And in other circles they may not be see that that leader on dh, so they’ll just be part of the group that makes the decision making, and they might be on three or four, five circles depending upon what their skills are. All right, this is anarchy to me, but you’re saying it works a compass point, it weaves we’ve tried it for maybe a year and a half, and we’ve decided to modify it so we’re keeping aspects of it. But we’re not keeping the whole thing, so you’re anarchists of anarchy. You can’t even follow the anarchic model of program autonomy. Okay, well non-profits pride themselves on their ability to experiment and hopefully do yes, alright, yeah. So who is but who’s orchestrating the overall? I mean, there’s got to be, doesn’t there? Well, i’m i’m answering my question, but better ask it as a question, doesn’t there need to be one or maybe two people if the co ceos overseeing the coordination of all these pola craddick circles yeah, there, you know, so it’s it’s, largely governed by two principles, one is you’ve got the law on the latto has the board of directors on top of the organizational hierarchy and does require a ceo in most states, or or a president that that’s going to be ultimately in. Charge however, they’re going to be a set of rules and systems, and this has to be very transparent and holacracy so you’re not leaving everybody to go. I don’t know who to go, teo, you know, maybe i’ll ask this person so in holacracy there’s a large set of rules that everybody knows and everybody has to abide by, including the ceo and that’s where how the different relationships between the circles are all codified and how the decision making goes from one circle to another. But ultimately again, it would be a non non-profit corporations you have a board of directors and ceo have to oversee the whole thing and can decide how to modify accordingly. Okay, maybe something for listeners toe look at program autonomy, let’s say i wanted to jump to the most complex one because i want to make sure enough time sometimes our talk at the end, our topics at the end get cut off a little bit. I don’t want that to happen with program autonomy and the holacracy pola craddick circles still feels very crystal lee to me, i don’t know dahna all right, let’s, go to we just have about two. Minutes left explain how the ceo and the board might be the leadership share well for small organizations that particularly all volunteer organizations it’s usually all hands on deck, right? The board is completely active in running the programs of the organization as well as just doing their regular board duty. So, you know, you got the ceo because somebody has to be ceo of a corporation that might be called president or chair of the board, but somebody has got to be identified in that way, and what their decision making authority is going to be will depend upon what the board wants to give to that position, but board make decisions board takes actions on lee at meetings or by written consent, so whenever individuals are actually running programs, they’re not running them as board members. They’re running them of volunteers with certain delegated authority. And what the board has to really be careful of is that they’re making sure that they’re delegating authority for somebody to run an event or somebody to run a specific program there delegating with due care, meaning that they’re not quitting somebody who would be totally unqualified and in experience latto lead. Something of importance to the organization because if it is, gets into trouble, you know, the board could be held for violating the produce very duty’s not exercising reasonable care in making that delegation, and they can’t just say, well, that was another board members, i couldn’t tell them what to do. That’s not the case. Yeah, yeah. Ok, i see. I see i see a greater responsibility and risk for for the board under this one, but it makes sense. I mean, they’re taking a more active role in the leadership of the organization. That’s, right? So that’s, that’s very much shared leadership where all board members see themselves as equal, but when they’re exercising roles that are different from meeting at boards and taking actions like approving contracts are approving, you know, the by-laws there acting as volunteers, so they have to realize that they’re wearing a different hat and the authority has to be properly delegated. We’re gonna leave it there. Jim takagi from ah hotel in los angeles managing attorney of neo and you’ll find him at g tak neos, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. Thanks so much, gene. Thanks. Have a great day. I pleasure. Thank you. Next week, diane lettered returns with your grants team in and out. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling, dot com, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scots. Time you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s, why should i give it away? 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Nonprofit Radio for May 12, 2017: Your Cyber Risk & Beyond Online To IRL

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Marc Schein: Your Cyber Risk

Bad things can happen to all that data you store on donors, volunteers, employees, vendors and others. But, there are ways to minimize your risk and protect your nonprofit if a breach occurs. Marc Schein of Marsh & McLennan Agency shares his wisdom.



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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d go into burbage oration if you repeated the idea that you missed today’s show your cyber risk bad things can happen to all that data you store on donors, volunteers, employees, vendors and others, but there are ways to minimize your risk and protect your non-profit if a breach occurs, mark shine of marsh and mclennan agency shares his wisdom and beyond online. Teo i r l maria semple are prospect research contributor, and the prospect finder reminds you that ria life conversations remember those little things i can tell you so muchmore about your potential donors than online research. Plus, she has conferences you need to know about on tony’s take two i’m wagging my finger, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com here is mark shine with your cyber risk. I’m very glad to welcome mark shine to the studio he is a risk management consultant with martian mclennan agency and an authority on cyber insurance providing strategies to protect sensitive employee, customer and business information. He’s a c i c a c l c s and are i am to find out that very shortly on dh the company is at mm. A hyphen. Any dot com mark is at em. Shine that’s s c h e i n c i c c l c s mark, welcome to studio. Thank you for having me. My pleasure coming closer to mike so we can hear you even shatter. Okay, um, we won’t talk about cyber. Cyber exposure would share what is define it for us first everybody’s talking about the same thing. Sure. So when we look at a cyber attack, you know certain industries think that it has to do with a nation state coming and hacking and things of that nature which which it does it could be, which it does absolutely. Okay, but there’s other exposures that really come tto tto light as well. Three idea we look att information and the type of information that businesses or not-for-profits have. And it really falls into three silos. Person identifiable. Information. P i at nonpublic names, phone numbers, so security numbers, email addresses, physical addresses, things of that nature. Ok, then when we look at p c i, the payment card industry that’s really looking at the credit cards, how many credit cards do you have on file that kind of that kind of information? And then you take a look at p h i information, which is the health care information, and so we look at it from three different from three different segments on dh for not-for-profits when we take a look at it, typically the way that they’re asking their donors to donate is video website and when they go on to the website. Typically what we’ve seen from our clients is you have to put in your name your address, your email addresses, personal latto personal info, a tremendous amount on, and then they ask you for your credit card information in order to make the donation. So now when we look at not-for-profits several years ago, the cyber exposure didn’t necessarily exist. Now there’s certain first party legal responsibilities in the event of a data breach that these non-profits have to comply with. Ok, ok. And you mentioned a whole bunch of acronyms p c i and c i a, which i’m glad you’ve defined because i’m non-profit radio. We have george in jail and i would hate to put you in there on the outside. Sit on. It reminds me that i forgot to go back and look at your acronyms. So you’ve got a bunch of letters after your name? Yes. Ah, i see. I see what’s the c i c commercial. Certify insurance counselor. Sort of what you even get. Confuse yourself, eh? So many. So many seas after my name that yeah, there are. There are three. Ok? So certify insurance, counselor. And then you’re also a c l c s yes, commercial lines covered specialist commercial lines covered specials. Now you must be especially proud of those because those were in your twitter id. Yes. Okay, but then rim what’s his rimming work. You know, what’s rim. I’m not sure what the rim that you’re referring grimm are i am response. The responsible that rim counts. I sit on the rim. Counsel for the pondimin institute, which is the leading organisation for cyber stats in the country. Cyber stats open among latto department institute looks like pokemon but it’s not a problem on that end. Exactly. Okay on dream is responsible information management correct at the pokemon that the bonem mind the parliament, its ottoman parliament. Sorry. Alright. Thank you. Okay, um all right. So we’ve got your credentials are clear. You got a lot of letters, a lot of professional certifications. All right, um, now i i mean, when we think of cyber breaches, i mean, i think of yahoo and target on dh even the democratic national committee meets off these highly sophisticated organizations, i think, a toast in terms of i t i would think that they are are vulnerable than surely small, a midsize non-profits have vulnerabilities to be concerned about. Sure. So so what you’re saying? And again, we’re not going to comment on any specific client just because of the nature of the business and who we are. But we’ll talk about is the exposure’s they all do face on dh. I mean, if these big organizations are at risk with yahoo five hundred million user i ds and, you know, passwords and things, right? I mean, this is so again when you’re looking at a hacker forgetting who the company is, you take a look at the breaches that are going on there now targeting the vendors of some of these larger entities because they realised that the vendors don’t have the same protocols. They don’t have the same budgets to implement the cybersecurity best practices that some of the fortune one thousand companies that you know you previously mentioned half alright, so sometimes it za something that’s, a contractor’s exactly it’s the low hanging fruit that they’re looking for. All right, so there’s a real easy. They don’t want to work any harder than anybody else does. So if they’re able to get into a smaller entity who has access into another larger entities, well, that could be the treasure so that they were just looking for okay, so that raises a good point if we are outsourcing any database management in terms of the of the type of data that you were talking about those three different categories we need to be sure that the vendors were hiring have have either insurance well, insurance, which would you’re not going to talk about and or on dh really should be end high. High levels of security. Correct. So we gotta make sure our subcontractors are vendors. Basically, you want to make sure that you’re doing your due diligence when it comes to your vendor selection. That’s a very important step on duitz something that businesses are now starting to pick up on something of march that we march my client agencies that we recommend when we’re talking to our clients and you hit the nail on the head. Ok, ok, it doesn’t happen often. So thank you for acknowledging the one of the rare instances. All right, right now, if we happen to be ah, ah, a target or a victim of ah, of a cyber exposure. I’m the first thing that occurs to me is a bad press. Yeah, what else? What? One of the risks are way suffer. I mean, not in terms of the data, but just in terms of costs and things like that. Sure. So so when you look at a data breach and you see what the average cost of a data breach was and, you know, the parliament institute, which were just reference the average cost of a data breach was about seven million dollars. In two thousand sixteen and when we look at it, what is the first party legal responsibilities that the business has or the non-profit has to do in the event of a data breach? First, they have to notify they put in a call to there hyre insurance broker they want put the carrier on notice, let him know that the possibility of a claim might be coming down the pike line. Let them work with the prefer providers that the cyber insurance provides toothy entity, then they’ll work with the data breach coach, which is the attorney who let them know what they’re for with their first party league responsibility’s ours builders that forward on then the notification because you not only have to notify the affected individuals in your non for-profit that were affected. But you also have to notify the estate attorney generals where those individuals reside as well. Okay, all right. We’re gonna unpack some of that. We got to go out for a break. Sharon, we come back, mark and i are going to keep talking about that and some of the other the hard costs of recovery. And then, of course, the ways of ensuring against a loss stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re talking about cyber exposure, cyber breaches and what can happen if you and your constituents are our victim with marke shine, risk management consultant with marshall mclennan agency. Okay, mark, um, before the right before the break, we return about notification. Yes. All right, you gotta let the individual’s no. Yes. And the angels that were affected, that information could be compromised. Attorney general, you mentioned so when the state where the individuals reside, you have to also notify that a state attorney general all those states exactly could be notifying fifty. Well, forty general, forty seven different states have forty seven different state breach notification laws, which make it so complicated in the event of a major breach where you have donors, you know, across multiple different sametz one of the three states where they don’t care about their residents breach of data where those three states, when the close call in after we’ll play the game and we’ll let them call in and figure out if they could guess that. Oh, way. Don’t have way don’t have life callers. Okay, you got to reveal it. Shocking. What are the three? Sure, so, it’s. Some of the provinces province’s, yes way, have forty seven different states that have it it’s. I put you on the spot. Hey, gip. No, no it’s, not a problem. Okay, i get it. I’ll get back to way. We got about fifteen or eighteen more minutes. Ok? That’s right. Just seems to me like those states aren’t protecting. Their citizens are thin this narrow respect. Okay, um, attorneys general, individuals, of course. And you mentioned carrier if you have. Ah, if you have to have a cyber insurance carrier, they have obviously no. Also, exactly. Because the cyber insurance pays for these exposed the first party legal responsibilities the notification that we just went over then the forensic cost. You need to figure out how the breach happened. What did they take? When did it stop? Did you fix the issue now? Carries will pay for the forensic investigation. You also have to provide credit monitoring for the affected individuals. Roughly about twenty dollars per an up individual to provide credit money. Let me ask you about that part. The credit monitoring that i’ve seen the breaches that i’ve been notified about. It’s so it’s. Always been a year. A year of credit monitoring could be too it’s. Okay, i guess i haven’t been lucky. I’ve always been one, so now is that? Is that really valuable? Because i’ve read that this data is actually valuable three or four years later, after it’s been sold and those of us who are the victims have for gotten about the breach, so we’d like we can’t identify where it came from because it’s like two, three, four years later and the credit monitoring is long expired, then sure is that is that true? I mean, is the data more valuable to up to a bad guy? A few years after the breach? Typically the data when it’s out in the market, it’s its most valuable when it first comes out first, comes out when he first comes out. Precisely. You know you look at you. Look at a credit card. You know my credit card has been compromised before. Where there’s been fraudulent charges the next day, my credit card provider sends me a new credit card. Right? Ok. Ok. Credit card. I could see that. But what if it’s ah, date of birth. The address, you know, maybe maybe it’s password to for ah site. I mean, does that? It doesn’t have residual value, you know. Like, years later? Sure as well, you always want to make sure that you have it for when you’re when a company is goingto offer credit monitoring in the event of a data breach, you always want to make sure the year taking the full limits of whatever they’re giving, whether it’s a year or two can information be used. Five, six, seven, ten years down the road. Yeah, absolutely. But if the entity is going to be able to provide you with two years of credit monitoring it’s better than running around without after your information was just out there compromised. Okay? And i guess in terms of the credit card example and that it would cover you that way, but usually goes get a zoo. Said it was get canceled immediately. All right. Um all right. So we’re going to get to the insurance, you know, like the details of insurance. Um, so does that. Does that cover? Like what? That cover everything that the organization should do if they do suffer a breach each. These these notifications. Anything else? So? So they provide the notifications. They deal with the data breach, coach. They could do a forensic. Investigation. You know, some entities will be responsible for pc i fines or penalties or re issuing debit cards or credit cards. The’s a role different coverages that khun b now implemented within a privacy. A network security policy within insurance when we look at most other insurance policies, whether it’s, worker’s, comp, general liability, ah, professional and, you know, exposure, whatever it may be it’s all based off of an isil form and with the ghisolf whoa jargon job. Okay, s o form. Yes, what’s s oh. So i suppose the insurance services organization on dh what they are is they basically provide a vanilla form or vanilla suggestion and each carriers than able to change it a little bit and that’s what they have done to help develop property liability auto so on and so forth, when we look at cyber, there is no isil form, so one carrier can be all the way on one side of the room offering terms and conditions. Another carrier can be all the way on the other side and the prices and the terms khun b wildly different. And the coverage is okay, okay, we’re still going to get to that. More detail. I want to flush out a little something that you mentioned now. Twice. The data breach. Coach? Yes. What is his or her job? Who is that? Sure. So typically, what happens is each insurer will have ah, panel counsel or they’ll let you select your data breach, coach. And they will walk you through what your liabilities are, who to speak to who, not to speak to what you should be saying. What? Just not what? Your first party legal responsibilities are there going to be your end? All be all guide. Okay? On dh, they come from the carrier. Typically us okay? Or recommended by the carriers, like, typically comes from a panel counsel that the carriers have already selected. Ok, ok. Um all right. So why don’t we get into a little bit of detail about, um, different types of policies now, there’s there’s to protect yourself? Particular organization? No, that i know. There’s. Cyber insurance and there’s cyber liability. These two different categories of coverage. What? We’re all interchangeable. Okay, so same thing. Really? Okay. Privacy in network security is the technical term cyber insurance or cyber liabilities? The street name, if you will. Ok, i’m a street guy. We’re going to be okay, so what what what are we looking for? If where if we want to be out in the cyber insurance policy marketplace, what features should we be looking for? Well, you think it really depends on, you know, the entity and what their concerns are, because you want to make sure that this coverage specifically is highly customized for the specific business, so one of your not-for-profits that might have five hundred employees might have a dramatically different exposure than a company who has fifty employees out in north dakota, so we need to again figure out what their true exposures are. So we work with a client like we do on a daily basis, talk to them, figure out what their risk tolerance is, because cyber insurance, although it’s a technical challenge, the risks still is transferred to an insurance carrier or it’s held within to ah, an anti itself now are their policies that are for small organizations like suppose an organization has just eight or ten employees, maybe they have fifteen hundred donors, two thousand donors, they have some credit card info that they’re saving, which i guess we’re talking about whether they really need to save it. Or just transact with it, but they’ve got they’ve got that they’ve got some personal information because they like to send paper mail as well, and they’ve got is email addresses. Is there coverage for, ah, smaller organization like that? Absolutely they i mean, you could get privacy in network security first, a company smaller than that. Ok, eso eso absolutely size is not an issue when it come comes to obtaining this type of coverage. Okay, um, i don’t suppose it’s possible tow the premiums could are gonna vary wildly depending on what the what the risk precise exposure is like. So you can’t really ask, no point really, and asking what? Like what a premium thing would look like. All right, i don’t think, you know, i mean, you hit the nail on the head. It varies dramatically between the amount of records that you have, the type of information that you’re collecting the way that you’re storing the information, all of those play factors. And when trying to quantify what the premiums would be a first, i relied bilich policy, i have no one had twice, twice in one interview. It’s don’t get that’s a record, thank you now should i should’ve vendor of of these kinds of policies be able to help you determine whether you’re saving info that you don’t need to save and, you know, going to the point that you just mentioned if you are with the info that you are safe, so are you savings stuff you don’t need to do and what you are saving. Are you saving it in the right way under security under the right security? Is that is that part of this or that something separate? No, no, it’s absolutely. We want to make sure that we understand the culture of the business, and we want to make sure that they take cyber security to the highest regard in two thousand seventeen. This is one of the crown jewels, the intangible information that a business has on their donors, their clients, etcetera s o typically, what we like to recommend is some type of vulnerability and penetration testing an ongoing test that will say where where you guys are from a security standpoint right now, what the culture looks like, which changed? Andi in-kind gives you a snapshot in time of where we currently stand. Oh, this sounds like a very sophisticated vulnerability and penetration testing. Correct? Excuse me. Who does the who runs a test like that? I mean that something has been sighted. Offers cybersecurity firms, firms. Okay, it doesn’t have to engage a firm. Exactly. Go on, attack your precisely your size or your social media ate your internal networks, your servers, that nature. Exactly. Okay. Um, all right, what else? What else should we be thinking about? Is we’re going out into the marketplace? E think it’s, even before you go out to the market place that’s really, what your listeners need to think about is the proactive steps that they could do in order to make themselves a better risk. So when they’re out in the marketplace, a carrier wants to give them more favorable terms. So doing things like creating an incident response plan that basically says who’s in charge of what information who’s going to be notifying who in the event of a data breach which information was classified? Where, who had access to what? All of those different types of questions you want to make sure that you have that document in hand? It’s kind of like a fire. Drill back when you’re in elementary school, you want to make sure when the fire happens, you knew exactly where to meet the teacher the you know, the corner of the road, it’s the same thing when a data breach happened, you want to know exactly who is going to be dealing with the vendors and who had access to the information. The time to figure this out is before breach not after you in a crisis, their precise that’s the third time in the interview here, here, if they knew this guy’s coming back. Oh, my god. Okay, yeah, you’re in crisis and yeah, all right, what else? Things. These are things that you mentioned underwriter. So these are things you can do that will bring your policy, your premium down, you’ll look more favorable to an insurer. You will be a more favorable real scared. The more that you put involving your in growing efforts on cybersecurity, the more better off that a business is going to be going forward. Okay, don’t see intangible property going away any time soon. More people more aunties or collecting mohr information in two thousand seventeen than ever before. There’s a trend? That’s not going away. So we advise our clients to be proactive rather than reactive when that’s what we work with them on what else besides the incident response plan, could we could we be doing proactively? Sure what you want to engage with attorney to again draw the instant response plan? You will make sure you doing your vulnerability and penetration test. That’s what? I want to deal with your cyber insurance broker to make sure that things on the applications or actually being done and you’re not making a material misrepresentation when filling out an application. So if you spat that’s bad, absolute if you’re claiming claiming you have a plan or you’ve done vulnerability testing or something, and then then there’s a claim, and it turns out that you haven’t. Yeah, yeah, that could be trouble. Precisely. We don’t want to line an application. We make sure that our clients are truthful on. We work with them to find the best carrier for their certain circumstances. Okay? Okay. Anything else we can do proactively before we’re in crisis mode or, you know, we just maybe it’s part of our strategic plan. We’re planning for this. What if? There’s one thing that i can recommend to the management of the not-for-profits that listen to this organ, this radio station, you want to make sure that your training, your employees, the employees error factor can be the difference between a data breach in a non data breach if they know to what to look for in terms of a phishing attack on that can lead to some type of rain somewhere. These rural types of methods now that entities are individuals are using to try and breach a company, so we want to make sure that we train our employees thoroughly. What to look out for what to click on what not to click on that’s one of the biggest things that i would recommend when i go out and i do my talks, his employee training because employees era unfortunately causes a tremendous amount of breaches. Ok? Yeah, we’ve been thinking about the bad actors coming in, but you can keep them from coming in precise don’t click on the attachment there sametz expecting or doesn’t look familiar to you. Yeah, and on the same point of the employee training, what happens when the employees sent an e mail to jane doe and i’m supposed to go to john doe. And now all of that census information or the credit cards from your donors are now out there in the public. Well, now you have a data breach. So again, making sure the right protocols are in place. So an email doesn’t get sent. Teo, you know john dahna supposed to go to change original employee training. I can’t stress it. Enough is one of the biggest thing. I get your passion here. I feel it it’s it’s palpable in the studio. What else can we be training on them? This because this is valuable for people who even may not be. Then there may not be in the insurance marketplace or they may not be out looking. But but there are things that they can do to help protect themselves. Or what else can we include in employee training around this? Sure. You wanna make sure the policies and procedures in place classifications, policies things of that nature. Pacification of the information. What information was segmented? Was all of your information on your server? Was the secretary ableto access the same information? Is the ceo yes, levels? Right. So levels of employee access exactly. People classification. Okay, okay. You find that in database precise programs are apt aps typically, you know, somebody’s a super user. Only certain people can see social security numbers. Percent have access to things like that. And you want to make sure again the ceo is able to see certain information that perhaps the you know, the rank and file doesn’t necessarily need to see. Okay, so if there’s information out there that is highly sensitive and employees don’t need to see it there’s no actual there’s. No reason to give them access to it. Right? You have a business need exactly exactly, exactly so, it’s, just again. Doing your due diligence ahead of time rather than post. Ok. Anything else? Try employee training. This is gold. This is charlie’s gold for listeners. So what else can what else could be, including employee training again, i think we hit on a bunch of the major. But this way, you know, if you like one of your guests, i could put you in touch with a good friend of mine who does some of the training. And they could go into more detail. But my really okay experiences qualifying. Quantifying what a breach could come or cost and not for profit. And how come the bottom line of their piano? Right. Okay. Okay. Uh, now we still have some more time left. Eso let’s. Okay, like two or three minutes left to share. What happened? I asked you that you want to talk about i think the trends of the way that the breach has been happening. We’re seeing now certain thie carriers are now changing the policies because of the way that the attacks are happening. You know, what’s happened things like social engineering, social deception, that’s now you can now get incorporated into the cyber liability policies. What is this social engineering, social deception with so have you have you have you heard about the types of emails that are coming to the c suites? Were the rank and file from the c suite saying, can you make a payment to x y z company? We’re looking to acquire somebody, right? We call it voluntary parting of funds and this is now the need for a holistic point of view from a risk management standpoint when looking at a cyber exposure because this is a part where the crime policy and the cyber policy can interline to try and provide coverage so it may not just be crime may not should be cyber, but if yu of the overlap of the two, that might be the best form. So we want to make sure that we truly again understand the client specific needs. Because what we talked about today was all generalizations way need to understand their actual risk profile that you mentioned a crime policy. Now, this is something we haven’t talked about. This is something unrelated, right? Precisely. Coverage against crimes against the organization. Different types of crimes. Could be. You know, for this, the voluntary parting of funds, if somebody’s willing to transfer monies if sounds so innocuous. Voluntary parting of funds that sounds like i write my niece a check. That’s a voluntary parting of fund. I gave her fifty dollars for a birthday. It was young that’s. Why? Fifty dollars is enough. Don’t you think, uncle, you wanted to give you you needs to fifty dollars. Typically when these air going on this is ah, bad actor that it tricked and employees to release the funds like your example? Okay. Precise. Alright, thank you very much. We’re going to be there. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being in the studio. Mark shine. You’ll find him at m a c h e i n and then his credentials c i c c l c s thank you very much again, mark. Thanks don’t appreciate the very timely discussion we had because just today ah, sixteen health facilities in britain were breached. People couldn’t reach their own data. Medical facilities couldn’t reach patient data. Patients had to be diverted. So that’s, just today’s headline we got maria simple coming up with beyond online to hell first. Pursuant, they’ve got a new paper it’s free. Of course. Lots of free content from pursuant breakthrough fund-raising achieved the impossible with a new way of thinking. What is brick troop? What does break through thinking? And can you say it? And how do you get it? To help? Ah, use it to help you overcome your organization’s challenges like speaking and moving lips and tongue in move in precise ways that will actually form syllables which turn into words and sentences. How do you do that? Breakthrough thinking of course. How do you set a breakthrough outcome? How do you make sure that that outcome is going to reach far enough and achieve something that seems out of reach to you? But is not all right identifying actionable strategies to create a culture of breakthrough that’s, what’s all in this paper? Learn breakthrough fund-raising you can learn it, go to pursuing dot com click resource is than content papers. I hope you have more success reading it. Then i did talking about it. We’ll be spelling. Do you need to raise more money? One engage millennials, perhaps host of fund-raising spelling bee it’s a night out at a local place that’s devoted to raising money for your non-profit check out their video at we b e spelling dot com, and they get in touch with ceo alex greer. Very nice guy, stupid, stupendous guy, he’s an amazing guy. I love this guy, alex career ceo on duh you’ll find out more he’ll fill you in now. Time for tony’s take two. Are you properly registered in each state where you solicit donations? I’m wagging my finger at you if you are a northern louisiana charity, perhaps and you’re sending email to southern arkansas needs a register in both states if you’re in eastern oregon non-profit and you’re hosting an event in western idaho, you need to register in both wherever you are. If you mail solicitation pieces to retirees in florida, you need to register down there. Don’t get caught with your shorts down, please. That reminds me i wrote that. But then this reminds me of ah, this company truck that i saw once said ganz or electric, let us check your shorts. I love that. Ah that’s another that reminds me of another one. Um, it was roofing fiedler roofing it’s only done right if there’s a fiedler on the roof. I love those. I don’t know if ganz or electric and fiedler roofing. They’re out there somewhere. Okay. Charity registration back to that. I can help you. If you want help, i can help you do it. The video explaining what you got to do and what this is all about is that tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two. You probably very much looking forward to maria semple because i’ve i don’t know. It’s it’s, philo rough today. So let’s zoho maria semple to do a lot of talking and ill will just have sam bring my mike down. She’s the prospect finder she’s, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her latest book is magnify your business tips, tools and strategies for growing your business or your non-profit she’s our doi and of dirt cheap and free she’s at the prospect finder dot com and at maria simple. Welcome back, maria. Thanks for having me, it’s. Great to be here. And you’re in the studio today. Absolutely. That’s that’s, always special in the studio share is it’s not a great day to be in the studio with me, even though the first part was pre recorded. I don’t know how you can help me change the trajectory. There you go of my performance. Yeah, don’t don’t take your mic down because then it’s no fun. Okay, well, that’s ah, today that’s a debatable question. Typically, i would agree with you. All right, so we’re talking about going on beyond online and this is actually a topic that i think brought you and i together in early days, back when i used to write blawg posts actually write words i wrote something. On the value of going not only is researching online, but the value of actually talking to your potential donors, and i’m pretty sure you commented on it. Yeah, probably, yeah, there was one of the only things yes together. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so many times when you think about prospect research and even on the shows that we’ve had, we’ve really focused a lot on the online stuff, you know, the technology and, you know, how can we get information? But, you know, we we haven’t spent a lot of time talking about, well, what are some of those offline strategies, those people, two people strategies that you can use to elicit cem, great information. And, you know, sometimes when i’m sitting there typing up profiles on individuals, there are things that i just, i guess, out of curiosity really want to know about that person, you know, i want to know more about what makes them tick and, you know, the strength of their marriage, strange from their kids, like those kind of questions, maybe no, but we have to get along with her parents just really what, what, what their interests are what are they? Really doing in the non-profits more conventional. Yeah, yeah. How are they spending? You know, even how, but but maybe even how are they spending there? Ah, they’re free time. Like how do they spend it? Are they volunteering? Are they? You know, vacationing? Are they advocating? You know, what are they doing so very often? I wish i could, you know, call up that person that i’m researching and say, hey, i got a couple of holes missing here in this profile and a love to ask you a few questions, and i have thought and going back to that blood posted i wrote years ago, you know, talking to the person and there’s other people who could talk to do we’re going to we’re going to talk about that, but talking to the person i’ve always thought is just a great source of information just ask open ended questions, right? And you find out about not only about their interests within the organization, but they’re family circumstances where they like to vacation, you know? I mean, who they who their friends are that might be affiliated with the organization that they might be willing to bring in and you know, you just you find out so much if you would just, uh yeah, talk to people. Absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, if if you know, if you’re doing the prospect research for the organization, i’m going to give you some some questions to think about. But also, you might think about ceding your your your development staff, your executive director and you’re bored with some of these questions that they might just curious, you know, in their conversations with people they might be ableto ask so that you can fill in maybe some some holes that you might have on the donor profile that you might be, you know, compiling on this person or just, you know, at some point filling in night now you and i have talked about boards being valuable for prospect research and occasionally or you think you advocate even regularly making part of boardmember or period board meetings or periodically list of prospects? Yes, a swell as institutional funders, funders and people thes air these these are the people in the organizations that are on our screen right now. Yeah. How can you help us with any of these? Right? Right. So it could be it could be through that process that you could elicit the information another way you could potentially do this is, you know, tony, you’ve, you’ve probably heard this phrase where if you want to get money, ask people for their opinion, has them for their opinion and they’ll give you money. So if you can figure out a way, tio, engage people either through a formal feasibility study or bring together some sort of small focus groups where you’re really getting people engaged and asking them questions and making sure that they understand there’s, there’s, there’s nothing behind this, we’re not you’re not being brought in the room to to solicit you in any way. We just really want your opinion, and i think that people start to feel more engaged and and committed to an organization once they understand that. Oh, you know that they want to know what i think about this organization and how to move it forward into the future. So, you know, i you know, kind of came up with my top ten questions that i thought i would love to ask, okay? Okay, we’ll get to those, um we’re going to get there. Um, so we mentioned the board as a good source. Focusedbuyer oops, sorry, focus group staff, you’re you’re you’re might be development staff, but not necessarily could be staff that’s interacting with people in a different in a different way besides fund-raising that’s, right? That’s, right? So maybe it is staff that’s involved with really just ah, organizing your volunteers so you might have a volunteer engagement person on staff that really just that focuses on your special events? Ah, you’re runs your walks, things like that s so they could be sort of armed with this set of questions as well, so they could just happy just be kind of on their radar and be always looking to collect this type of data because the type of data that we’re about to talk about a lot of times, you just can’t even find it on you. Yeah, and ah, and i think it goes to really good development work to be able to source that data and fill in some of those holes and missing piece puzzle pieces, so dismayed now this raises the question of social media, so when you’re researching prospects, do you go to their social media accounts to see what what might be public like if a lot of their facebook posts are public now, some people keep them private, but or only to their friends. But do you do you look at social media? Tio try to fill in hold while i tell you what i actually do? Because one of the things that i do, of course, is i google somebody’s name. So when i do that and on page one of google search results very often will be their social media accounts, they’re linked in their facebook instagram, right? So even even you think okay, well, it’s an instagram account it’s all photos. What am i going to gain from that? But you can really gain a lot of information avectra their second home? Yeah, their boat, their plane? Yeah, i mean, our just, you know, maybe maybe there really into birding, for example. So they’ve got, you know, a lot of pictures around that and you think ok, well, gee were an environmental organization. We didn’t realise they had this particular interest within our scope. Eso you, khun really? Maybe even learn a lot, you know? They say a picture’s worth a thousand words, right before you just filled with the old the old saying, zoho yes, yes, i’ve heard that you have heard that, you know, so you know for sure on dh, then then let’s not forget some of the some of these platforms that also allow for video, so my goodness, when they then not only have photos up there, but then they’re involving video as well. So if it’s if it’s public right? Um and, you know, that’s not somehow password protected or privacy protected, then it’s in the public domain, you’re not going in friending all these prospect? No, no, no, no, to try to sneak in, no, no, and become their friends absolutely know you’re going? No, no, absolutely not. But i will say one thing about the linked in if you’re doing the research there. Ah, there is a way to set your your privacy settings in such a way that you will like if i’m researching you, tony, or if i’m just looking at your linked in profile, i go in as anonymous an anonymous user, so you won’t know that i was looking at your profile really, however, give up the ability to see who’s been looking at mine. Oh, well, i wouldn’t care about that. How do we set that? So you go into the privacy settings, and, um, and one of the options is, you know how you want to appear to others. When you are looking at their profiles, they’re three settings there’s one that’s, fully transparent. So your your your picture will be there. Your name will be there, and your headline will be there. Right? That’s the setting that allows you to also then see who’s been looking at your profile. If you choose that setting, then there’s two private settings. One is semi private, so i could come across as just somebody who’s in the management consulting industry in the greater new york city area. Or i could be anonymous. Okay, so those air, the two private and semi private said they’re either naked, topless for that’s. Fully clue, fully clothed. Okay, um, all right. And that’s. Very interesting. I mean, i would i could care less. Who looks looks at mine. I get those e mails. I know it is an option. I can turn off, but i just haven’t. But, you know, whatever. Twelve fourteen people looked at your your your profile this because i don’t care and okay, but so now so if i turn around but you could turn it on and off you can’t you don’t want to you want to be if you want to be naked sometimes and fully exposed could do that if you want to put your clothes on top and bottom tops and bottoms like jammies like foot season, everything right on the twenty years and everything, you know and hoody you could do that to write. Okay, you go back for all right? This is all online. And what i promised was we’re going to go beyond online in real life. But this is all valuable. So we do whatever the hell i want the okay, um, he’s going rogue it’s my show now, it’s not rogue. It sze mainstream sametz dream it’s twenty martignetti non-profit radio. All right, now you have questions that are good for in real life. Real life questions. So let’s, talk about some of those for aa for a couple minutes before we take a break. So what kind of things should we be putting out into? Our among? Our people, because it is not just for us to be asking, but all the people that we just think about a few minutes ago, and also these would work really well in, like i said, a focus group or or a feasibility study type of the situation. So question number one, what do you feel are the most pressing challenges for our community? And i often can’t find that type of information, right? So you’re now you’re getting into the mind of that individual and you’re getting them to talk about what are the challenges that you see, not only with regard to the service types of services that we provide, but in our community? What are the challenges that you see? And then, you know, hopefully from their conversation will will happen around, you know, how does does this particular non-profit even address any of those challenges? And it may not be appropriate that in fact, that’s your next suggestion? What role do you see? Non-profits playing resolving the issues, right? That that are pressing for you, actually, that you feel, you know, i like this, you know? What do you feel? Because you’re asking the person what’s their opinion where their feelings about write something good, open ended questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You definitely want to make sure that they are open ended and not just yes or no questions, right? Because what you’re looking to do here is really just listen, um, and and i think that, you know, this is something that i think especially those of us in the northeast. We’re so used to talk, talk, talk, talk that we have that we have trouble just listening. I don’t know you may have that trouble. I don’t feel i have that trouble. Well, you know, you’re already transitioning to the south so well, slowly but that’s like degree of sarcasm. Okay. So, you know, how do you see us fitting into it? Yeah. How do you see are not fitting into this into addressing this particular in need. You know what? How can we help address this need in our community, in the community? Is it appropriate for us to be addressing this need within our community? All right. Do you feel like this should be? It should be a priority for us. Yeah, it is. Or it isn’t. And some of these i think are things that i mean? I hope that fundraisers, frontline fundraisers have in mind, and they are asking people, you know, a taste. These last couple that we talked about, you know, what are we doing right? How do we, how do you think we fit in? How do you feel about the work that we do have to fit into the community? You know, what else should we be hitting on that we’re not things like that, all right, we got to go take our car break. When we come back, we got live, listen, love, et cetera, et cetera, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that or neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m chuck longfield of blackbaud. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have got live listeners all over the country, it’s amazing, but we’re booming today from new bern, north carolina. Bradenton, florida, and tampa, florida. Basically, we’ve got all this is that this is a first for non-profit radio for sure, we’ve got all five boroughs of the city checked in bayside and rochdale in queens, bronx. Cancel your neighborhood, brooklyn can’t see your neighborhood. Manhattan and staten island got all five boroughs checked in live listener love throughout the city of new york throughout the five boroughs. Also blair’s town new jersey used to go to boy scout camp in blair’s town no, be bosco stood for north bergen boy scouts no be bosco bladders in blair’s town and that’s, where they filmed friday the thirteenth one of kevin bacon’s early movies flight friday, the thirteenth films at that boy scout camp in blast down new jersey live listener love to you blessed town also woodbridge new jerseys with us i’m nowhere altum pandu jersey is where my mother and father are they did not check in they’re checking out there so i don’t know but they’re not checked in we got all way all the way west coast. Can’t washington live? Listen, love out to the upper northwest? Um, i think that’s, everybody so far in the us of a how about germany, multiple cities in germany? Guten tag, spain. I can’t see your city, i’m sorry, but spain, buenos di days. I’ve got a newcomer. Ah, the area of the stars of by john the town is tub breeze and that’s, iran welcome, iran live with their love to you in iran, give us a high five from iran. On the heels of the live listen, love, of course, comes the podcast pleasantries, maria samples getting close to her, mike thinking that’s her time to talk again. But it’s? Not quite because we’ve got to do the podcast pleasantries, she’s trying to cut you off podcast listeners. She doesn’t want me to do it, but her restraints are are ill are feeble against my will to do podcast pleasantries to the over twenty, twelve thousand listeners, whenever you are whatever device i am so glad you’re with us pleasantries to you and the affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. So glad that you are with us as well affections to you on those analog devices glad you’re with us. Ok, marie simple. Now it’s back your turn. You can sit up straight again. Maria sample. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and she’s at maria simple. Um, yeah. So more questions we got. We got some more questions that we’d like to be asking. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So these next two questions are very inter related, and they may be difficult for you to ask directly to someone it might work. Better in mohr of aa group situation, and i think it would work really well if you had, i’m going to say, ah, third party may be a consultant or other volunteers, perhaps asking this question, so the questions are, what are we doing right? And what can we improve? Because i think you’re going to learn a lot about how your organization is serving the community. And maybe there is some gaps that that that these potential donors feel thatyou’re not filling but should be filling eso it sounds particularly student to a focus group, right? Or a feasibility study, a consultant asking feasibility study questions of individuals or couples one on one yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And this next question really has to do more with your communications and how you’re communicating with people and, you know, you know, are we transparent and communicating effectively regarding our programs and achievements? S o you know, i think that fund-raising and communications marketing, pr, whatever you want to call it are they cannot live in silos, they absolutely are interrelated when one one part of that is not going well, it’s going to impact thie other side and vice versa. So i think it is important to have an understanding of, you know, are you over communicating under communicating, you know, sometimes donors feel like, you know, g the only time we ever hear from this organization is when they’re asking for money that’s always about right, right? So, you know, are you adequately communicate? And also, how would you like to be communicated with right? Do you prefer email, paper, mail, phone twitter, you know, how would you like us to be talking to you, right, exactly what channel? So yeah and thiss next question i really like because now we’re going to start to understand, will these people be willing to make a major number seven minutes if you like this one? Where was this number seven? Well, no, i mean, because now we’re getting into more of a major gift flow of questions arc to the right, right? We’re approaching danamon right there, and then we’re going on that we’re goingto leave xena, ok, exactly. Bonem so have you ever made a multi year commitment to a non profit organization? And would you ever consider doing so? So not necessarily to your non-profit to a nonprofit organization ok, you need to go through the next couple quickly. Okay, great. We have a few minutes left and we got to talk about conferences. Okay. Great. Read them off. All right. So how many non-profits do you typically support in a given year? Do you give more to an organization when you are involved in its leadership? Would you like to be a boardmember? Etcetera? Volunteermatch ok. And who else should we be talking to? Excellent. Right? Because you you who have your in your network and you bring to us, right? Who in your circle of influence should we be talking? Teo? All right. Excellent. In real life, go there. Don’t ignore the in real life. It’s it’s it’s part of you being a human being. It’s not all digital. Okay, let’s, go to conferences. If you want to meet in real life, we have a nap. Unconference association of professional researchers in advancement, right? Where’s that that’s, right? So they’re big annual conference it’s their thirtieth actually is happening in anaheim, california. This year on july twenty sixth through the twenty nine, you’re going to be there? I am not. No, i’m not. I’m not going to. Be attending it this year, but i do want to make sure that everybody is, you know, he’s aware that it’s there in case they want to get some extra education and this information as well as a lot of this other stuff i’m going to bring up now is all available on apple. His website, which is a p r a home dot org’s. So that’s apra home dot order s so that’s, the big, the big international conference. A bunch of statewide stuff just passed in in april, but a couple of other upcoming things that i did want to bring to your attention. So if you are members of the florida chapter of apra, they’ve gotta state conference coming up june eighth through the ninth, we’ve got anapa overdrive one day conference coming up in seattle, washington may twenty fifth, there’s a couple of webinars coming up a free one on june fifteenth. Ah, getting the most out of wealth screening and they’ve got one that they’re running in conjunction with a f p called you khun do it research at your finger tips and that’s going to be on august twenty third i don’t know about all these is available on apple home dot org’s. Yes, yes, it iss that’s. That’s exactly where i got it from. Okay, very good. We gotta leave it there. She’s a prospect. Find her again at maria simple and at the prospect finder. Dotcom. Thank you, sir, for being in the studio. I was so glad to be here too. Two force cracked like a fourteen year old is unbelievable. Next week, health care funding options and jean takagi is back. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And this cool music is by scott stein you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hopefully i’ll be more articulate, go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phone. Amador is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff sort of dane toe add an email. Address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

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Karen Graham: Idealware New Release!

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Schnoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I come down with high potro pia, if i saw that you missed today’s show idealware new release, karen graham, executive director, would idealware announces their new publication to help you use technology smarter. She has a discount for non-profit radio listeners, you need to know this organization and it’s valuable work and this new resource antonio, take two sexual harassment in non-profits we’re sponsored by pursuing two full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, wee bey e spelling dot com i am so pleased to have karen graham back on the show and in the studio this time she’s a sort after speaker, trainer, writer and consultant with expertise in technology, leadership and innovation non-profit software and digital strategy. As idealware sze, executive director, she leads a team of researchers, presenters and writers who create technology information resource is to help non-profit leaders put their vision into action thereon idealware dot or ge and she’s at karin t gram. Welcome guarantee, graham. Thanks, tony. That’s. A pleasure to have you in the studio this time. What’s the tea for the tea and karen tigre off. Theresa theresa now, karen teresa? Yes, we must. Yes. Ok. Last time you were on the show was from sixteen and t c the non-profit technology conference last year. And you were talking about virtual order eggs idealware is a virtual organization. And you were talking about how to manage that tell us about idealware i really think this is something that i mean we highlighted you made you idealware listener of the week a month, a couple months ago or so. And i really do that for organizations it’s, usually for people. But idealware is outstanding. Tell us i need to know more about how extending it is. Thanks. I think it’s outstanding tio it’s a great place to work and that really a privilege to lead idealware but so here’s, what we do, we are a small nonprofit organization, and we also exist to serve small non-profits actually non-profits of all sides. But i think that the smaller ones that don’t have a lot of internal resource is about technology that don’t have people on their staff can stand to benefit the most from what we dio and are we talking about something like eighty five or ninety percent of non-profits exactly, i mean, this this show is a big non-profit agent for the other ninety five percent when we know that upper five percent has these professionals that you’re talking about, but i don’t know, maybe the other may be a small percentage of the other ninety five does does also, but not very money, right? Well, and we we know, i think your listeners probably understand that technology is really important for non-profits heard rumors to that effect on the show you so hopefully i don’t have to persuade people of that, but but we also know that a lot of non-profits, especially the smaller ones, really struggle to tap into the power of technology and it’s because they’re lacking the knowledge and the skills, and the resource is to really take advantage of it, and so idealware tries to be part of the solution to that, and so the core of what we do is impartial research on technology for the nonprofit sector and i’m gonna stop you at the impartial research partner. Do you object to me saying that you’re the consumer reports of non-profit technology? Some of my colleagues might object to that a little bit, but i think that’s a great shorthand way of describing what i do bilich dahna certainly all the feature you don’t take advertising companies don’t donate their software to you. I don’t think for evaluation do they just do not donate it all right? Ah, so your objective in that respect on dure i think your reviews are my voice just cracked reviews are just as comprehensive, and we’re going to talk about that exciting. We’re gonna talk about that in the announcement. That’s coming up, but yeah, i mean, you’re impartial objective. I’ve been citing idealware reports for years before we met before, i really was familiar with what idealware was just years ago on the show, because someone mentioned one of your reports. That was it was a comparison i think of of donorsearch hannes mint software or it might have been fund-raising software, but but i went through and i read the report and i saw the chart with all the bullets of different features, and it talked about features that you might need based on the size of your organisation and it just since then it struck me as very similar to consumer and just as valuable as consumer reports. People tell me all the time that they have that kind of experience where they’ve come across one of our consumers guides and you’re talking about the consumer’s guide to low cost donorsearch zsystems which is now and it’s, maybe fourth or fifth edition. I am that’s why i’m talking, you have to tell me what i’m talking about, and i rarely know. We just released the twenty seventeen edition in partnership with an ten a few weeks back, you know? Why aren’t you called the non-profit technology network? Well, it’s where they stole it, you should be the non-profit technology network. I don’t think that you know amy amy’s on the show every month, she’s, our social media contributor. Yeah, and there should be a social technology non-profit technology network, not them. Well, they’re they’re the network because their membership organization and idealware is not some of the misconceptions that people have about us, is we’re? We’re not a membership organization. And we also don’t do one on one consulting with non-profits i guess our bottle is more like a publisher in that we’re trying teo create some economies of scale in doing research and creating publications and resource asses that can benefit lots and lots of people, and so much of your your content is free. Yes, we’re not what we’re about to announce. Although we got a discount for this into the cracked voice, we’ve got discount for non-profit radio listeners coming up teasing, but but so much of your content like that survey. But you said i was talking about for five years and consumer guide that was free. I mean, i just went on your website, someone had referred me to it, and we talked about it on the show, right? So so much of your content is free and on our website, people also find workbooks that guide them through different kinds of decision making processes. Right now, we’re working on a new work book, which will come out in another month or two about developing security and bring your own device policies so it’s not just software that idealware covers it’s also policies and best practices and so that’s maybe the difference between idealware and consumer reports okay, that we’re not just doing reviews, but we’re also trying to help people get the most out of the technology that they have with policies and administrative practices things right? So you’re more you’re more robust than your consumer reports, plus that’s a policy in his administration best practices more than all right, all right. Let’s ah, that’s how we want to do this let’s go out for our break a little early when we come back we’ve got the big announcement the major announcement major announcement of the new uh, the new guide on dh then we’re gonna talk through it stay with us you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s t i g e n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent guaranty graham, karen, theresa graham you have a major announcement major a love letter could say major award was not a major war, but you have a major announcement. What is the publication that is brand new that idealware has it’s the field guide to software for non-profits excellent twenty seventeen version yes isn’t even is even available now. It is now available on amazon, amazon, and i’m excited to say that this year, for the first time, it will be available as a kindle ebook as well as a paper version. Congratulations technology organisation uses smart use of technology all right, so we wanted to do that for a while. So so it is the field guide to software for non-profits, and we have a discount graciously provided by idealware if if you go for non-profit radio listeners, if you go to idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio couldn’t be simpler. That’s a idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio you will get the discount. The instructions are right there, and we’re going to say that multiple times throughout the show. Congratulations on the twenty seventeen field guide. Now, this is an updated version of previous work-life s we have published this book before, but it’s been a few years, and so this year we just went through every single word of it, and we checked all the research and updated a lot of thing things. And so this is significantly different than the previous version because, as you know, technology that changes so fast that a book from twenty fourteen is hardly even relevant anymore. So, almost even last year, it’s. Too early last year. Now the field guide. This reminds me of something i had in boy scouts and boy scouts. I had a field guide where it taught how to build a fire. Proper use of an axe. Ah, so it reminded me of my boy scout field guide years is there’s a little thinner? My boy scouts. Well, my boyfriend’s got field guy was more compact page size wise, but it was a it was a fatter thing. Well, and it’s it’s not unlike that kind of field guide, i think. And in two ways one, your maximum ship in there. I don’t know how to build a city teepee. Fire versus log cabin. Fire, you have that we don’t have, you don’t have that. But but we’ve got all the basics of forty some different categories of software in here, but i think the way it’s like that kind of field guide is that it’s it’s, fairly lightweight it’s ah, how many pages is this? About a hundred ninety pages? And so it’s not going to go in depth on any particular subject, just like, you know, with building a fire, you’re not goingto read about all about the history building fires and, you know, three hundred different ways to build fires in different conditions similar to that this is going to spend maybe two or three pages on each category of software, but it will give you everything you need to know on the fly. And and then, of course, if you want to dig deeper into a specific topic, there are lots of other resource is like our consumer guides that will help you do that. Okay, all right, fair enough, it’s also, i think, like like a traditional boy scout field guide or other kinds of field guides in that it’s useful for people who have a lot of experience. But also for beginners. Okay, that is important, right? So you don’t have to be ah, a tech geek, teo, to benefit from field guide, right? And likewise, in my scout longfield gotta remember, boy scouts was founded by i mean, it did have a history, but baden powell latto buy-in powers, the founder of boy scouts. I forget the year i actually even i figure this century, but, ah, lord powell. Nonetheless, um you are probably often asked what is the best software for human resource is or fund-raising management or accounting? And that that doesn’t that doesn’t sit so well. It’s not that’s not a valuable question to ask, is it? Have we talked about this before? I think we either have or i’m just very insightful, so let’s just assume the ladder i’m from the midwest, and so when people ask me questions that i think are stupid, i usually don’t say so outright, okay? I didn’t say stupid i tried to be very nice about it, but i said i’m not the most valuable or helpful question, but honestly, when people ask me what’s the best fund-raising software example inside, i’m thinking that is the wrong question, but the right question is, what is the best fund-raising software for me or for my organization? And that answer will be different for every organization s o that that’s a really key component of idealware approach is that we don’t say which software is the best, but rather we help people make that decision for themselves by understanding a lot of detail about their own requirements. What is possible to do with software and then what they’re different options are and what the strengths and weaknesses of different systems might be. And you have a whole section in the book devoted to selection, selection and implementation, and i’m going to take a little romp through the the table of contents cause i want people to see we’re going to do this. I’m going to just a couple times through the show, but i just wanted people to get an idea of the breath of what’s in this what’s in the field guide me so there’s there’s, a major section on back office and productivity and within that there’s accounting and credit card zsystems document management, email calendar, fire file, back-up recovery firewalls, hr office management, then there’s, a major section on analytics analyzing your organization’s data. Ah analyzing paper data, custom reporting tools, dashboards, maps and geographical information measuring social media, online listening program evaluation. All right, so we’re going to stop there for now, but that’s just a couple of the major sections. I mean, other section collaboration, constituent management. So i just said, we’re gonna stop there and i kept going, but so i get, you know, i’m excited by this because the the number of topics you cover and the depth and then there’s a section on helping you helping choose and in and within each of the conversations, the topics you’re talking about, if you’re small organisation with under a thousand records or a certain budget, you know, this might make more sense than if you’re a larger organizations with a thousand twenty five thousand records, etcetera or larger, you know you’re breaking it down so there’s great value here i want people to understand that, alright discount idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio okay, and don’t forget the case studies too. I think that’s an important part of this book we start right towards the beginning with three case studies and there’s a fourth one at the end in the implementation section and those what we found is that those were able to put it all together. Those hypothetical yes, hypothetical, but realistic. Yes, syria is very important. Footnote. I was trained in law school. Always read the footnotes hypothetical but realistic. I mean, put together by you by obviously, by the team that wrote this and idealware yeah, right, but they’re all of the scenarios and there are based on riel organization, but we’ve used a little bit of poetic license, i suppose. Okay, you’re out about it. I mean, not you. Well, you’d buried in footnote, but i mean it. Sze imprint, right? Its imprint. You’re right. They are hypothetical case studies, but i think that they help people. Teo, imagine themselves in that situation and think about all the different kinds of software and kinds of decisions about technology that they need to make. All right, all right. That’s going to aa detail now that we know that there is no best package in each of these areas, it depends on your organization. All right. Um, you’ve got a section on what every organization needs. I mean, there seems to be basic. Not what package or what system or whether online. Oh, our cloud based or installed is better. No, not that. But basic areas of function that it seems like every non-profit should be using technology in. Right? All right. So let’s, let’s, let’s, cover a couple. Those like you start with a back office. Productivity. What are some that just every organization ought to be using. Well, just about every organization needs. Some way to manage their files to do file back-up things like that. They also need an e mail system for internal office emails, so and calendars ofthis software for word processing, spreadsheets, things like that. So that’s that’s the type of thing that falls under this category and now, if you’re gonna have email, you’re obviously online, so you’re going to need virus protection, right? And probably should be looking at firewalls to okay, okay, um, and the reason we put that first is because if that stuff isn’t an order, it’s not really worth while to be paying attention to some of the communications and outreach tools it’s it’s like trying to paint your walls when your basement is flooded? Um, you know, there’s just kind of a hierarchy of needs that non-profit has have when it comes to technology, and so you need to take care of the back office and make sure that that stuff is is just working well, you have a solid internet connection, that sort of thing first as a foundation for everything else, let’s not go too far on the home improvement metaphors, because i’m a cz good at that, as i am at sports, which i confused the other day the field goal i thought that was baseball, so i thought that was the three pointer so let’s not go too far get agreed. I’ve tried to repair toilets, i had to replace the handle and i end up cracking the tank. I didn’t have to take it off, but when i put it back on, i tightened it too hard and the islamic cracked unaided old toilet for the for the five, ninety nine handle i was trying to replace aunt, of course a plumber to go with it, so let’s end the home improvement and metaphors and don’t start on sports. Alright, alright, but those constraints okay, so, you know, a lot of times i get the question how do we get to the next level? And some of these basic tools are that? I mean, if you’re if you if you don’t have a good file management system, if you’re working with more than one person, if your organization is more than one person, you need to be file sharing files and they’d be backing them up. So, you know, how do you get to the next level? You need to have this. I don’t want you the word foundation these basics because the foundation is the bottom of the house, so but you need to have these basics before you can get to the next level. Okay, let’s, go a little further on some basics like you talk about the analytics measuring how effective the organization is, right and that that is often the next place that organizations go because using data well is something that can have a huge impact on an organization’s ability to deliver on their mission. Once you’ve got those those fundamentals taken care of, then they’re often moving, too. Um, you know, what kind of tools do we need in place to collect data to manage data and then to report on it and use it to tell our story, but also to make decisions about the organization from day to day about, like, how do we allocate resources? How do we do future planning dahna can help with all of that, and so we cover a number of analytics tools and dahna presentation tools in here, ok, can help with that let’s move to the all important area of fund-raising donor relationship management, things like that, what is most likely needed in place for that stuff and that’s actually, the area that i probably know most about when i was a consultant, i did a lot of software selection process passes with organizations that we’re looking at donorsearch sustainers or grants management systems are or, you know, whatever the appropriate system was for their type of organization. And, you know, these days, almost no one can manage their constituent dahna and excel anymore and it’s becoming more and more risky, i think, to use a customized system, especially as a smaller organization, because the cost of that the cost of ownership for that and the limitations of it can often be really unattractive compared to cloud based systems. And so that you will find in a lot of idealware is work, including in this book, that we tend to nudge these smaller organizations toward software’s, the service and cloudgood based solutions you do especially for data management. Yeah. Okay. Why’s, that why’s our preference for those you think for the smaller or eggs. Well, it’s, there are much more robust features for security. For one thing, i mean that’s, not something. That a lot of people think about straight off, but i do because i want everybody’s data to be secure and well backed up, and so when you’re using a cloud based system, the the level of back-up insecurity is usually much more than any non-profit could afford on its own if they were doing that in house. And so i mean, really, if you are hit by hurricane and you like your office floods, i don’t know you lose electricity, whatever, you can’t access anything there, then if you have a cloud based system, you can go to another location and log in and immediately you have access to everything again. So that’s just one example. Not that people are facing hurricanes very often. Well, the midwest girl tornadoes, it can happen. It could just be a power outage in your local areas are in your office, but your home is okay. Or you can get to somewhere else. Someone else’s home and operate from there. Or you can use your battery and still work. Or maybe your computer just crashes and then you lose a bunch of stuff. If it’s not well backed up, you know. So it was just nice to have all that taking care of it’s also, i think at the then he just for a small organization, teo, just try to take advantage of tools that have been developed based on the most common needs of non-profits like yours and people have a tendency to think that they’re they’re really special, and they are they’re all special, but but sometimes there needs as non-profits or not as unique as we believe they are, and ultimately it can be more effective to just adjust your business processes and your expectations a little bit in order to take advantage of inexpensive, easy to use tools that exist that probably addressed ninety percent of your needs and the rest, you have to question whether those air true needs or if they’re just preferences, ok, you are right, and whether people processes might be able to just adapt right a bit. Now i know that there’s ah, a lot of hesitation to adapt people to the technology. The feeling is that the technology should be assisting us in the way we work. But, you know, if you have to compromise and ten percent of what you what the way you worked to get ninety percent of what you need. It seems like that would be a fair. There’ll be a fair trade off. Yeah, and i hold those two things intention all the time, you know, like, while i’m saying, just compromise and sort of go with with what everybody else is doing at the same time out of the other side of my mouth, i’m saying, like, no, you need to be innovative and on don’t just accept what everybody else is doing, do something different. So it’s, i don’t know some somewhere in between those two extremes is probably the right way. Okay, okay, um, and we’ve had we’ve had guests on actually from talking about subjects like what if your what if technology isn’t your problem? That was a good panel. I think that was from think that was from twenty fifteen. You know, where you’re blaming technology, but really it’s people, attitudes and culture that are your issue. And it was a bunch of software consultants, some of them two of them were our consultants for sales force. You know, help organizations implement sales force in their in their offices, and they were suggesting that, you know, technology can’t solve problems that are people based, i would say amen to that some of their speaking yes, yeah, that that’s part of the reason that in this book, we include the section about defining your needs and making comparisons and managing an implementation process, because there are so many people issues that can easily be overlooked there. And so here’s one example, i talked with an organization that had gotten new software maybe a year ago, and they were the executive director was so frustrated because nobody was using this new software, and i started to ask him questions about their process and, you know, like, who was involved in selecting the software who had input into this? And she said, well, it was it was a boardmember who just sort of did this as a project for us, and so they researched options, and they recommended a package, and then we just went with that, and so the staff who were the end users of the tool had no input into the process at all, and they felt that it was being imposed on them on dh, so of course they’re going to kind. Of dig in their heels and and not go along with that and because, first of all, they didn’t feel included, and secondly, it didn’t meet their needs the and they hadn’t had a chance to express those needs. And so there are a lot of things that you because they weren’t included, right? Yeah, there are a lot of things that you could do early on in a process like that that paved the way for user adoption down the road and that’s important because you could spend easily, like forty, fifty thousand dollars on a case management system, which is one of the categories that’s covered in the field guide just in the first year, and if people aren’t using it, that is a lot of money that’s being wasted and that’s a huge opportunity cost as well, because if you’re not using the software for what it’s intended to do, then you know, maybe you’re not serving people as well. Maybe you’re not getting good data about the impact of your work, and that inhibits your ability to raise money in the future. And, you know, there’s just like a lot of consequences to a bad software. Decision and a badly run implementation process if you want to find that that show that i was talking about the panel which deals with the issues that karen is just mentioning, i don’t know what we called it for sure, but i remember two of the guests that were on it, and i think one is an idealware adviser robert winer. Yes, right. He’s a good friend of ours. So you could go to tony martignetti dot com search. His last name, whiner w e i n e r and also tracy kronzak was on that panel. So k r o n t z a k. So if you searching through their names, you’ll find that that particular show um okay, let’s, let’s start to go into a little detail about your expertise, which is in the constituent relationship management and donor management system area, right of the of the book. Um, what’s ah, where should we? Where should we start when we’re talking about constituent relationship management? Well, probably idealware is most popular. Resource is air about donorsearch zsystems so that’s that’s maybe a good place to start because every non-profit organization, i think, has donors and so reserved about them to manage you won’t be an anarchist than all right, we’ll do it your way. Uh, is the donor management is a subset of considering management because they’re they’re wanting some of your donors and the others are vendors and employees and volunteers, right? All right, so you don’t know management let’s go there, let’s, go there. What do you want to know? Where, um i wanna take a break, and then we’ll compose our thoughts about dahna management systems and count and i will will continue very shortly. First, i need to talk about pursuant. They have their fund-raising camp coming up and this is a one day intensive on site. It will challenge the way you think about identifying major gift prospects and managing a portfolio and managing and managing a relationship pond leading up to your your solicitation you’re asked. I know you need to raise more money. I hear that all the time. And if you want to take your fund-raising to the next level, aside from software, obviously what we’re talking about all day today. But in addition to that, there are processes that you need and relationship management methods and that’s. What this boot camp will help you with and space is limited. They aren’t keeping it to a small group. It’s the fund-raising boot camp you go to pursuing dot com click resource is and then training we be spelling spelling bees for millennial fundraisers fund-raising it’s a night out to raise money for your organization this is not a night that is benefiting half a dozen organizations. These are custom made for you in your location and it’s not your seventh grade spelling bee with dance and stand up comedy and live music, et cetera. It’s all gets set up, it’ll get set up for you it’s your organization’s fund-raising night check out the video is that we be e spelling dot com and they get in touch with ceo alex career and you could find out more it’s all that we be e spelling now. Tony steak, too sexual harassment in the non-profit workplace i’m interested in what your experiences it’s, timely it’s in the news and i but i don’t see anybody talking about it with respect to non-profits, but pretty confident it’s there i blogged this not this exact topic in two thousand eleven, i blogged about sexism in the non-profit workplace not identical, i know that, but that’s the closest i’ve come to this topic before now, and this the stories were rampant. It was my most commented post that was back when i used to write block post now, of course, it’s all video, but it was the most commented post, so since it’s in the news, i’d like to bring it home to non-profits and i’m interested in aa hearing from victims hr professionals, attorneys richness is to something inappropriate. Anybody with an opinion about sexual harassment in the non-profit workplace let’s, talk about it. You can comment anonymously on the video i disabled the requirement for email address so you can do it anonymously, and the video is at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two. Karen graham is the executive director of idealware idealware dot or ge she’s at karin t gram and i need to take my another romp through the contents of the field guide on section five collaboration board support software elearning file sharing internets and portals learning management systems online chat section six constituent management, which we’re about to talk about. Well, i was going to talk about it broadly, but karen anarchist so would do it her way. But there is a section on constituent relationship management, advocacy oriented cr, ems all in one case management donorsearch panitch mint systems volunteermatch judgment zsystems um fund-raising and events a major, major what’s their crowd funding a peer-to-peer fund-raising systems event, an auction management event registration foundation grants research, online auctions, online donations amazing. I’m just reading through the table of contents you’ve got to get this thing is the field guide two non-profit to software for non-profits and of course, your discount is at idealware dot or ge slash non-profit radio get the get the get the darn thing. Get the discount. You gotta have this thing. It’s an amazon forgot. Take him and that’s it. That doesn’t say anything, but you gotta have this lots of things on amazon that are worthless, but this is not among them. All right, thank you for indulging my romp through the contents, etcetera. Okay, so if we’re gonna talk about dahna management way, dont have to dive into that, you know, we’re not going back now. Now we’re not flip flopping. No use committed me. All right. Um, we need to use the book says for most of the ability to handle both gifts and pledges, including recurring gift that sounds pretty basic. We need to handle these things, right? Right, ok, where do we go? How do we decide or what should we be thinking about in determining what’s, our what’s, the best dahna management system for us? Well, some of the things that i think differentiate different fund-raising programs are how much they emphasize pledges and recurring gifts, although more and more, almost every non-profit is doing that these days. There also are some differences in these systems in terms of how they handle relationships, and i don’t know if that’s actually i don’t i don’t really see that highlighted here, but that’s something that i have personally found varies a little bit from one system to the next. So just to get a little more more specific on that let’s say that my husband and i are both involved in an organization we give jointly as a household, but i’m on the board of directors and he is not he volunteers for another particular activity, but i don’t, you know, so we each have our own individual relationship in preference is related to this organization. So it’s a rocky marriage, it’s not table, is not stable marriage it’s a great marriage, you know, but but partly because we sometimes do our own thing. And so organizations need constituent relationship management system that can honor people as individuals, but that can also treat them in some cases as a household. So that’s that’s a feature that i think it’s important to look at and see if that seems user friendly to you, you and and sort of meets your needs there. Another thing that might be a priority for some organizations and not for others is whether the system is is available not just available, but really functional on a mobile device so that’s essential. I mean, don’t we know, like something like seventy five or eighty five percent of emails or something are opened on mobile devices now and websites needs? I mean, if your website is not mobile response of your donation pages, not mobile responsive. I think you’re way behind the curve that’s his standard at this point, but i know that’s just elearning but let’s say, you know, i’m a development. Director, do i want to be able to look up a donor right before i’m going to meet with them while i’m on the train and just read a little bit about their history or after my meeting? Do i want to be able to log some notes and created follow-up task about that donor on my phone? Those are things that some systems support really well, and others really don’t, and you’re probably not going to find great support on a mobile device for complex reporting analytics assembling a mail merge, you know, that sort of thing is what you would rip out your desk, right? But but some of those things related to meetings and interactions with donors are some systems support that really well on mobile devices, and and others haven’t really made that a priority yet, i would say they’re probably all moving more in that direction. Okay, okay, um, credit cards, we gotta talk about credit card processing and often that is handled by a third party. So for example, i actually try not to name specific technology vendors very much when i when i talked like this because i don’t want to give the impression that idealware favors one over any of the others. But i will say the book has reviews, it does it doesn’t kayman number saying and think, yeah, yeah, also for credit card prices processing, i can tell you idealware has an account with authorized dot net as our payment processor and and that integrates with our donor management system and so that’s a very common way of doing it. You’ll have a payment gateway that actually handles the credit card processing. But then the data is shared with your donor zsystems and that’s, where all the records of the gifts and donors and histories live. Okay, i don’t want you holding out on non-profit radio listeners. I mean, the discount is very nice, but we gotta go beyond that’s. Just the money we get value. Okay, you’re not holding back. I won’t let you. Um, yeah. And the book actually is very clear about naming. Like i said, different different vendor’s alternatives. Pricing. What might be appropriate for your size organization, etcetera. Consumer reports, plus reports. Plus just report. Yes. Um, can we talk a little bit more in general about serum? Do you mind if we could just get me off! You took me off. Well, we’re just we’re lifting off. You know, we’re in the helicopter were just going up higher and metaphors flying. I don’t know what a pilot either. All right? Yeah. Let’s talk about you because i think you feel strongly about it. You tried before and i said no. And now you’re back to it a third time. Okay? I’m just going to keep pushing. We would like to say i i think it’s important to look at it. We could wrap latto out. Let’s, move to fund-raising. Go ahead. What do you want, it’s important to look at? The whole landscape of different kinds of serum. And one one choice that people have to make is do they have it all in one constituent relationship management system? Or do they have specialized tools for different purposes? So think about it non-profits constituents, their donors, clients or service recipients. You know, whatever that might mean for your organization patrons, maybe, maybe its members, volunteers. And there are a number of different kinds of constituents that non-profit is interacting with. And what about vendors? I mentioned vendors could be included in here. Definitely. Okay. Trustees mean there are higher level of volunteer, right? That’s. What? I think that’s should be treated as a separate constituency. Okay, so lots of i mean, there are probably thirty or forty different kinds of constituents that the car brainstorm if you took the time. So so one way to do it is to choose one tool like one. Great to rule them all. You know, one one tool that sort of does everything. And in the book, we describe that as the swiss army knife approach. So if you think about a swiss army knife it’s, a great multipurpose tool that you can put in your pocket. It’s, inexpensive, lightweight. If you need to build a house, you’re probably not gonna use a swiss army knife, right? Yeah. That’s. My problem about specialized tool when i try home improvement that’s my toolbox. Yeah, on the tweezers. I didn’t find very valuable for the toilet repair. Well, so if your needs are pretty simple and if simplicity is important and if a low cost is is really essential assed. Well, then that’s what’s army knife approach might actually be really great. I mean, it doesn’t have a phillips and a flathead screwdriver way. Really versatile. Gotta fish. Official remover. I mean it’s de scaler. I mean, my swiss army knife is quite robust. Probably got eighteen or twenty things on there, so we have some exam glass screwdriver. Thie i glad the way the eyeglass screwdriver weaves into the corkscrew. It’s. Amazing. Have you seen that the corkscrew hold the eyeglass screwdriver because it has a little groove and it rolls into the corkscrew. He’s. Brilliant. Brilliant. So don’t don’t diss my my swiss army knife. All right, well, i’m not s o those those all in one kind of tools. They could be great. They work, they can work. All right. That’s, one way of doing it. But there are also choices for first specialized tools. And so there are a set of software applications for case management, which is that’s, where you would keep track of your client’s service recipients. There are some very specialized tools that are made for arts organizations that handle data about patrons. Ticketing not sort of thing. There that’s that’s a whole other events event ticketing, event processing, payment, processing, sponsorship. Okay, that’s a digression. Goods are their specialized tools for membership. Organizations or for association management, clearly, for doner management, we’ve we’ve probably talked about that enough your expertise there are all sorts of lt tools in this this space as well, and s so if you’re using maybe three different things one to keep track of your client’s one for donors, one for volunteers, then you likely need some way to tie that all together. And so that might mean an a p i that might mean just a process of wei have jargon jail on non-profit radio a p i that you know, i’m not even going to say what that stands for, ok, what is because it doesn’t matter what it means. Is it’s just a way for different databases to talk to each other? The way for them to exchange data? I’ve heard the phrase a p i call it’s a calling data from another system or table or something like that, right? All right, sharing data. Watch your step non-profit radio jargon jail. So there are more and more ways that air developing now to share data between systems, i think that’s becoming more important as organizations become more sophisticated and start to use more of these specialized tools, but then they think, well, wait a minute. What if we want to know how many of our donors are also volunteers? We need to get those system to talk to each other. Okay? And that’s tables, tables all talk to each other in the background, right? The tables are all talking to each other. It’s gonna be okay? Yeah. All right, all right. That’s, that’s. I have a degree in information system, so i know about tables and all right? We don’t have a prize when i was in college, though. All right now there’s some gold here when you start to get into actual talking about particular system donorsearch panitch mint systems. Um, let’s say, you say among the best values for organizations starting out or that have a small list fewer than a thousand records is little green light. I hope you don’t mind me saying this that’s missing that’s in the book it’s in the guy uh uh, which offers a basic package at four hundred twenty five dollars, plus discounts for new users via text soup. All right, so i mean that’s, the kind that’s. A level of detail that thing gets the guy gets it. I mean, it actually starts talking about now. Let’s, talk a little about tech suit, but some people may not be acquainted with with what that is and how it can help there. Technology work pre-tax soup is wonderful. There, there. Ah, good front of idealware as well along with and ten and texas does many different things, but one thing that’s really relevant here is that they are a distributor of discounts on software and hardware tools for nonprofit organizations. So so, for example, if you want to get adobe products at a deep discount, then you khun sign up for tech soup. You can register with them, and then you’re able to do that. I got my headset, which i used in my home office. I’ve a wireless had said at about an eighty percent discount, and the box came packed with tootsie rolls. Uh, and i got that through text soup. So cubine ended the cookie rolls. Well, it wasn’t actually. Valium sets dot com, i think, but they distribute their non-profit discounts through text soup. So eh? So if you’re looking for any of the software that is covered in the field guide or really any kind of technology tools for your non-profit i think it’s it’s good to at least check tech suit to see if they have a discount and not just not just software. I didn’t realize that i thought it was i i just always thought it was software, but you got you got headsets. So any technology product you’re looking for, right, look for tech soup. What’s their site was its text soup, dr dot or ge. And i should spell that since we’re on the radio because the other day i was talking to somebody about it and they said, oh, so what’s the website for duck soup. Duck soup, right? Marx brothers? Yeah. So it’s th s o u p dot org’s. Okay, okay. Or should i say e at the end, it doesn’t have any at the end of soup right now. The french tc h s o u p dot or ge? Yes. Okay. Okay. Texas dahna excellent hardware, too. All right. Um, you know, you talk about donorsearch prophetic. You talk about the bloomerang zsystems you’re going to blackbaud i mean, this is to me this is just gold. Um, all right. Let’s, take a break. And when we come back, i may get into a lot more of this gold because we should. We should share some of this with listeners. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, e-giving and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m gonna continue my jump through the table of contents there. Section eight is communications, email, broadcast, email, email, discussion lists, graphics and multimedia mobile under mobile has broadcast texting mobile, aps, mobile friendly websites, social media, of course, facebook, linkedin, twitter, web’s under websites, content management systems, landing pages and micro sites online advertising search engine optimization. All this in the table of contents for the field guide, section nine choosing an implementing software. And karen and i are going to talk about that no in a fair amount of detail, so you get the guide for god’s sake, what else can i say? Idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio field guide two software for non-profits don’t go to amazon directly go teo idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio get your discount and then you’ll you’ll end up in the amazon, but get the discount the insider discount for listeners. Okay, karen let’s, talk a little about some detail or so i read about about little green light. You recommend you like that, one would say, you know it’s, not like you say, you know, best buy or something, but it says among the best values for organizations with fewer than a thousand records. Little green light people should look at that, right? A little green light and all of the suffer companies that were mentioned here were well rated in our consumer guide. Okay, we’re goingto fair now, right? We’re going to talk about more. So still talking in that up to a thousand records section dahna perfect. You like them? Well, sure, they were also very well rated. And don’t think that that is it’s a system that has some more robust features that might be useful to a slightly larger organization. Now, how do you how do you know this? All right. So i read that sentence before. Among the best values for organizations. I have a small list. A few thousand record, little green light, and now we’re saying don’t perfect. And also bloomerang is another one. How do you know what? What? Going testing. Is he’s gone through? Well, i’ll tell you about our research process. How did what’s behind this sentence that says, among the best values, how do we know that i should say that in every single one of these categories we have done some level of research in the constituent? Relationship management category. We’ve done a great deal of in depth research to compare these tools. So this is this is one of the most well research sections of the you’ve done, the research idealware itself has done the reese right and it’s not that we have used every single one of these systems, but we have we’ve talked teo a number of people who have expertise in the field and gotten their ideas about what are the important features and what are the important products to look at. And then we have looked at thirty some products and conducted demonstrations. We’ve surveyed them to get their answers to a long, long list of questions about features and capabilities and pricing and on and the company itself, you know, is it a stable company, that sort of thing? So so we’ve conducted quite a bit of research there, and then we’ve also for our consumers guide too low cost bonem management systems, we’ve done in depth demonstrations of a number of thes systems that go beyond the initial demonstrations and there, you know, maybe two additional hours of looking through every detail of what the software khun d’oh. Okay, excellent. That’s another great we shot that you mention that before the consumer guide, right? Yeah. All right, um, and we also fact check all that data with their all that information with the vendors as well. So before we publish anything they will sign buy-in off that what we’re publishing is factually accurate about their product. You mentioned bloomerang also has an availability for up to a thousand records, right? So that’s, another one to look at and that’s kind of a newcomer to the market that did not appear in the previous edition of the field guide. Not that they’re brand new. They’ve been around for several years now and are pretty well established. But that is an example of one that’s a little bit newer is j love bloomerang is that j dellaccio he’s been on the show years ago? First rodeo what’s, not his first round. I don’t know if he was with bloomerang then, but he’s been on the show also mentioned su mac offers a free basic cr m for up to five hundred records and charges just two hundred forty dollars a year for five hundred two thousand records. Right? Semak when that’s just one example of a number of these tools that are very affordable, even for tiny organizations. So we’re finding that even like some volunteer run organizations that have a budget, maybe even under one hundred thousand dollars a year are still finding that it’s valuable to them to invest in dahna management software and if they can get it for, you know, thirty, forty dollars a month, then that’s affordable? Fair enough. I agree, all right? And then, uh, there’s blackbaud i mean, they’re they’re in the small market, too. Um, blackbaud offers e tapestry the field guide says, yeah, okay, that’s, another option to look at. And i mean, in my opinion, where blackbaud really shines is with mohr enterprise applications and larger organizations, but they do have a product that was well reviewed for smaller organizations as well. Ok, that’s z tapestry, you tapestry, right? All right, we’re going to switch. We’re going, toto, how to choose what is best for your organization choosing implementing, um, number one. You want us to define our needs? You mentioned this before. We’ll say we’re more about this, right? Well, and actually, i would back-up from that, i think the static the first step is to determine whether you really need new software or not. Okay, so back to the story i told before where there was a softer package that was chosen without a lot of input from the staff there there wanting to change to new software, you know, they just want to start over, but is that the best thing for them? Maybe maybe your existing system can be modified added on to so let’s, talk to our vendors for the existing system and see if that can be scaled uppers or modified someone write about this already. I know. Yes, that zoho storming through the third cat. Why go through the tremendous effort and expense and frankly, a drain on morale, sometimes of making a software change? If you don’t really need tio drink, sometimes it’s better to improve what you have and and make sure that you’re not changing. Make sure that you’re not thinking that it’s a feature problem when really it’s a user adoption problem. People get confused about those things, the way people are using it versus what it might be able to do, right? That’s the distinction you’re making okay and that morale problem comes about because it’s, you know, if you’re if you’re doing a significant stuff where change learning a new system is a big deal it’s a big change in an organization it isthe alright, your says i can take up a lot of people’s energy and it can also productivity khun suffer for a while. It’ll probably bounced back up to a higher level than previously once you’ve gone through that, but productivity khun suffer during a change for sure, all right, after we know what our needs are, we go to a short list right a couple times, but i just have like a minute and a half left for this topic, i would suggest looking in depth that no more than four and take control of the demos. That’s my best advice for people who are shopping for software don’t just listen to the vendors jogging will fly through screen sharing and they’ll fly through for forty five minutes, but but but but you don’t even know if they want to impress you and show you all the bells and whistles and, you know, that’s great! I used to sell software i know i know how. That is, but but you want to make sure that you’re seeing the things that are most applicable to your situation and seeing the same thing would say, you look at three different vendors. You want them all to show? Like, how do you enter a pledge, or or whatever it is that you decide is an important business case for our use case for you. You want them all to show the same thing so that you could make a fair comparison. We just have to wrap up with the idea that you might need a consultant. You might consider getting a consultant to help you with this software selection, right? And having been a consultant, i can say that if you do some homework before you work with the consultant, that will be a much valuable, more valuable engagement for you. And it actually will be probably more enjoyable for the consultant as well. If they have a well educated client who knows the right questions to ask and has thought through their needs a bit before they start working with you. But it is sometimes very valuable. Tohave a consultant walk side by side with you and help you with this process it’s the idealware field guide to software for non-profits non-profit radio listeners get the insider discount goto idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio karen graham you want to follow her on twitter? She’s at karin t graham t for theresa and the organisation with all its outstanding resource is is that idealware dot or ge? You gotta check this organization out and the field guy just get the darn thing. How many times have i said it? Karen, thank you so much. Thank you, tony. Real pleasure. Next week, it’s risk management day healthcare funding and data breaches and don’t glaze over because we’re gonna make this fine and interesting. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director shows social media is by sea soon chavez and this cool music is by scott. Stein, be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Hey! Buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make you feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Video: Giving Tuesday 2014 With Possum Shooting


Tools from givingtuesday.org–really valuable, like a press release; unselfie tools; and event checklist

Cooking your Tennessee possum

Webinars on using the social networks from givingtuesday.org

Shorter videos called Summer School (thank you Beth Kanter for revealing these)

Nonprofit Radio: Rachel Hutchisson and Anastasia Dellaccio on the history of Giving Tuesday and how you can get involved

“Only 37 Days Until #GivingTuesday” from Catchafire.org

“8 Last Minute Facebook Tactics” that will work this year but John Haydon wrote them in 2013. He was thinking ahead.

A challenge to Giving Tuesday by Seth Rosen

#GivingTuesday on Twitter

Henry Timms on Twitter