Tag Archives: Gene Takagi

Nonprofit Radio for March 22, 2021: Build Your Best Better Board

My Guest:

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi: Build Your Best Better Board
Gene Takagi returns! He’s got strategies to help you build the diverse, effective, thoughtful, appropriately-sized, well-trained board you deserve. He’s our legal contributor and managing attorney of NEO, the Nonprofit and Exempt Organizations law group.

 

Listen to the podcast

Subscribe to get the podcast
Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Stitcher

 

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

I love our sponsors!

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

 

We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
View Full Transcript

Transcript for 530_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20210322.mp3

Processed on: 2021-03-19T22:19:57.962Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2021…03…530_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20210322.mp3.477538069.json
Path to text: transcripts/2021/03/530_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20210322.txt

[00:01:39.64] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast, and I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with dyskinesia if you gave me a taste of the idea that you missed this week’s show. Build your best Better board. Jeanne Takagi returns. He’s got strategies to help you build the diverse, effective, thoughtful, appropriately sized, well trained board you deserve. He’s our legal contributor and managing attorney of Neo, the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group tony State, too. Podcast pleasantries and planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. It’s my pleasure to welcome back, as it always is. Jeanne Takagi. These are legal contributor, managing attorney of Neo, the nonprofit and Exempt Organizations Law Group in San Francisco. He edits the enormously popular nonprofit law blog dot com and is a part time lecturer at Columbia University. The firm is that neo law group dot com, and he’s at G Attack Gene, welcome back to the show.

[00:01:41.84] spk_1:
Thanks, Tony. It’s great to be back. How are you?

[00:01:59.94] spk_0:
I’m doing well. Thank you. It’s always a pleasure. Many, many years. It’s a pleasure. Each time you’re you are teaching us what’s important, what we need to keep centered. What’s, uh where are ships Should all be facing in the same direction. So what direction is that? You keep us. Keep us on the straight path. I appreciate it. I know our listeners due to thank you.

[00:02:06.34] spk_1:
Thank you, Tony.

[00:02:23.84] spk_0:
Let’s get started with your building. Your best. Better board. We’re not We’re not gonna We’re not going to settle on nonprofit radio for your lackluster better board. We want your best, Better board. And I think the place to start is with board roles. So what are we expecting our board members to do?

[00:02:52.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I love this conversation, tony. It’s actually one of my favorites. And yeah, it was probably Gosh, it was early on, I think when we first talked a little bit about boards getting sort of distracted from doing the financial oversight and forgetting to do some of the other things that boards are supposed to do. Um, and, you know, part of what we talked about could have been, like 78 years ago was like, Hey, somebody should be over overseeing. You know, whether the program’s doing Are they having an impact or not? Are they really furthering your mission in the way that you want them to?

[00:03:11.94] spk_0:
You know, I have to remind you you and I did a mock board meeting one time, and either you threw me off the border. I walked out. I forget

[00:03:15.22] spk_1:
which

[00:03:30.04] spk_0:
back in the old studio was many years ago. I don’t know what we’re talking about. Something board related, obviously. But, uh, yeah, either I got booted off or I walked out and quit. I forget, uh, we’re trying to avoid that. We’re trying to avoid that in our best better board,

[00:03:32.54] spk_1:
but we’re definitely going to try to approach any of these things with extreme tact

[00:03:37.84] spk_0:
I lack, which I often lack. I probably walked out. I probably quit or something.

[00:06:01.14] spk_1:
Yeah, just just overall, the same financial diligence is great. So take a look at the financials, make sure you understand them and make sure that the organization is able to pay off its debts that they become do that you’re not sort of bleeding money and just managing your financial assets. But non profits exist more than to produce a financial bottom line, of course. So you know in the for profit world boards and probably got a different duty, maybe a little bit more. I mean, everybody has to act in the best interests of the corporation, right? That’s a fiduciary duty. But what is the best interests of the corporation for for profit? Oftentimes it’s associated, at least in large part the benefit of its owners or shareholders. But in the non profit, there are no shareholders or owners, right? It’s for the benefit of advancing the mission. And that’s what the board has got to remember, that it’s got to be purpose driven. It’s got to be, um, acting in furtherance of the mission ahead of everything else. Um, and the one caveat I’ll add to that which we may have talked a little bit about before, as well is you’ve got to add values to that statement, so their values probably baked into your mission statement but also baked into the organizational culture. So if our mission is to feed people who are experiencing homelessness or a lack of income, resources or we’re not just going to throw food out in a trough, right? You know that might be the best way or the most effective way to get as many people fed as possible. But that would be completely inconsistent with anybody’s values. Or so values and mission sort of go hand in hand, and focusing on that is really important. So not just financial oversight, the programmatic oversight the role of the board has got to look forward to. You’ve got to set the path with those values and mission for the organization’s future, not just looking behind you, but looking ahead, um, and so guiding the organization with those thoughts, acting as ambassadors, getting the feedback from the environment about what challenges and what opportunities may be out there. Those are all things the board can bring back to the executive and to the staff, sort of to help them do their best.

[00:06:44.34] spk_0:
And these are all very, uh, lofty. And and, um, I don’t want to say pedagogical, because that makes it sound like they’re not grounded, but But these are these are very we haven’t even talked about. You know how many board meetings you have to attend in a year. And how many subcommittees you have to serve on? You know, we haven’t gotten to that yet. You know, we’re talking about the the ambition, but it has to be centered. It’s It’s like you said. It’s the mission and values of the organization. I mean, if someone doesn’t respect those, then you’re not gonna get your best better board. You’re going to get a crappy person. Maybe it gives a lot of money, but ultimately, the ships are not sailing in the same direction with all the board members on each one.

[00:06:50.14] spk_1:
Yeah, I think that’s right. And I loved your introduction about having the best Better board. Not this lackluster,

[00:07:13.34] spk_0:
lackluster better. But yeah, that’s for other podcasts, not on the radio. We don’t tolerate lackluster mediocrity, mediocre better boards that we want to. We want the best Better board. All right, so So it really it really does start with loft and ambition around around Mission and values.

[00:07:15.74] spk_1:
I definitely think so.

[00:07:29.44] spk_0:
Yeah. Okay. Okay. So now let’s drill down. I mean, in terms of what we’re expecting the board to do, you have to be up front with what these expectations are and that that happens in recruitment, right? Not not in their first board meeting. You should be explaining the expectations while you’re talking to somebody about joining the board. Not after they have joined.

[00:07:41.54] spk_1:
Absolutely. And too often. I see tony and I don’t know if you’ve experienced this as well, but somebody tries to recruit you onto the board and they go, It’s really not that much work, you know. It’s easy. Um, well, that’s going to get you a lackluster and maybe not even a better board. So,

[00:07:59.57] spk_0:
um,

[00:08:45.54] spk_1:
yeah, so it really is about setting expectations of Hey, you really believe in this mission and you have the same values that we’re trying to move forward with. Let’s do something great with this organization. Let’s make a great impact here. This is These are the kind of things that we expect of our board. This is how often we meet. You know, this is, um, what we expected each board member in terms of attendance and in terms of maybe making a meaningful contribution. I don’t like set amounts because that can hurt diversity and inclusive inclusion. But a meaningful donation to to the organization it could be in time if not in money or in other ways. But the expectations, I think, need to be spelled out in front before you actually invite somebody onto the board.

[00:09:00.24] spk_0:
And when you’re spelling them out, I mean, do you Do you like to see a writing a document with, you know, Please take this home with you and consider consider, as we’re having our conversations about about you being on the board, consider all these things like you give them a document to read or just a conversation.

[00:09:24.64] spk_1:
I think both tony. So I I you know, it may depend upon the organization how formal they get, but if you do actually have a recruiting sort of policy or procedure or recruiting committee in place, I like to put some things down in writing just to make sure that we’re all on the same page and letting people know what the organization’s expectations are and how often boards meet. And if there is a meaningful contribution, expectations all of those things up front. So if somebody is not interested, they can right away say, you know, this isn’t for me, you know, I like what you do. But it’s not for me and another person who might say I’m really interested in doing all of those things. You know? I’d love to be a part of your board,

[00:10:11.94] spk_0:
All right? So be upfront about expectations. There’s no point in in concealing the work and the requirements, only to have the person blindsided when it comes time around, when it comes time for each board member to make their annual contribution. And and And they didn’t know that it was supposed to be a meaningful gift or they didn’t know there was a board giving requirement of any sort. You know, when it comes time to assign committee. So I didn’t know I was gonna be on a committee. I thought I just came to board member board meetings four times a year. Now we have committee meetings to I didn’t know about that, and then you set yourself up for a disaster.

[00:10:46.54] spk_1:
Yeah, I think that’s right. And if you if you start to um, the danger of it is is you don’t want to just sort of create this list of these are the things you have to do for the organization to run. You’ve got to always again relate it back to the mission and values. This is why we love to contribute as board members to the organization. Because this is what impact we can have. And this is the direction we see ourselves going to be able to have even greater impact. So you just keep reinforcing that message to get your best board members.

[00:10:55.74] spk_0:
You let me ask you a question. Are you Are you, uh Are you by any chance, playing with a pen or or anything?

[00:11:02.14] spk_1:
I am not rocking back and forth on my chair.

[00:11:06.44] spk_0:
And I know there’s, like, a little clicking, and I’m not. I know you’re not. I know you’re not typing like you’re not writing a document while we’re talking

[00:11:13.94] spk_1:
about you’re

[00:11:14.15] spk_0:
writing a client agreement or something.

[00:11:16.51] spk_1:
Typical things you expect from a lawyer, right?

[00:11:32.14] spk_0:
Yeah. You double bill your time, right. You get $800 an hour billed to clients at $400 an hour. You’re sitting in one’s office. You’re doing the work for the other. No. Okay. No, you’re not. Your hands are free, okay? I don’t know. There’s, like, little the mice are clicking or

[00:11:33.26] spk_1:
something. Maybe I’m rocking in my chair. I will try to hold back my enthusiasm.

[00:12:18.04] spk_0:
Okay, Alright. It doesn’t It doesn’t sound like that. Okay, Well, listeners, I can’t identify the sound of the but I’ll call it out because I’m not going to keep it quiet because we all hear it, so we’ll talk about it. Well, I don’t know what it is. This little tapping, clicking my mouse sound. Let’s talk about diversity. This should be a value. You and I have talked about this. We’ve had heartfelt conversations a couple of times about white male power and using that power and sharing power. And so let’s talk about diversity as a value for your board. How does that play into what we’re talking about? Your your best. Better board?

[00:14:50.74] spk_1:
Sure. You know, for the organizations who have responded to sort of this increasing understanding and awareness that diversity is an issue in various aspects, not just on board composition, but in the way our infrastructure as a country and even as the world is designed where, um, people who are in positions of power, no matter what race or gender or whatever, whatever they are tend to create systems that keep themselves in power. And so diversity has this great benefit of saying, Let’s take other lenses and look at what we’re doing. And look at the world that we’re in, um, for nonprofits, especially the world that’s directly impacting what we’re trying to do out there for. The people were trying to do it for what is impacting it, who is being affected the most, Um, and if that’s important to to organizations and their leaders, then I think they’ve really got to embrace diversity, not just by saying it, but by actually putting action steps into what they’re doing, Whether that’s going to be building it into true board diversity with inclusion. So not making people feel, you know, like they’re they’re just a simple tokens of taking a better picture but really being able to contribute to the power of the organization to address things that other people may not have seen. So, you know, I may identify with people who I relate to, but I may have very little understanding your perspective of people who are different from me who congregate in different circles who have different ideas. Um, and we have to think about all of those things, especially for serving a classic. Beneficiaries that are board members may be far away from. So if we have a board that’s more privileged, and we are helping a lot of people who don’t have some of the privileges that the board may have in terms of representation, how will we ever see the world through their lens? How will they understand? How will we understand where services are doing from their eyes? So trying to to get that diversity in an inclusive matter for purposes of increasing equity, I think, is a value that non profit should strive for.

[00:16:11.94] spk_0:
It’s time for a break turn to communications relationships. They’ve got the relationships with the media outlets so that when you need to be in the news, when there’s a news item that you need to comment on, your voice needs to be heard. Turn to has the relationships to get you heard. It’s not cold calling. They have the existing relationships. They give it like gifts. You get a lot of gifts from cold calls. Do you get any gifts from cold calls? You get your best gifts from cold calls. If you’re doing cold call fundraising. No, you don’t. Of course, it’s the same with media. The relationships are in place. So when you want to be heard, turn to picks up the phones and leverages those relationships That way you’re gonna get heard. Turn to communications. Turn hyphen. Two dot c o. Now back to build your best. Better board. Diversity has to be centered. Um, but And you wanted to go deeper than just like the board should reflect the community or the board should reflect those we serve. You mean you’re looking for something deeper than just reflecting an environment?

[00:18:17.04] spk_1:
I think so. So it is reflecting different perspectives as well. So I think traditionally, we thought of it as a skills based diversity. Like we need a lawyer. We need an accountant. We need a financial manager, a fundraiser on our board. And then we became all a little bit more woke and we said, Hey, we need racial diversity in our organizations. Um, but we didn’t say why that was or many of us didn’t say, why do we need racial diversity in our organizations? Is it simply to make it look like we embrace diversity and we take the better picture? Or is it because we want a true understanding from somebody else with a different lens and perspective? Who could tell us if there are gaps in our services for their communities? If there are gaps in the laws that are creating inequities that affect our mission as well? So the more we get these other perspectives, whether it be from a racial diversity angle from a disability angle, which I think is increasingly a really important thing to look at as we are facing an older population where disabilities are highly, you know, they make up a great percentage of our organizations and they’re kind of sort of the the unseen Group in many ways, um, we’re just getting started on addressing some of those concerns. But, um, the way we serve people can really miss many of those that are impacted, that that would be true beneficiaries of our service if they could access our services. But if we don’t make it accessible to them, then we just missed them, and that may be completely unintentional. But if we don’t have people who can identify and spot those things because they live it, um that would be, you know, short a shortfall in leadership. And that’s where we have to sort of address, Um, taking a look with a much broader lens and not just in our boards, but in our programming, in our staffing and just getting more awareness and bringing more lenses to what we’re doing.

[00:18:55.54] spk_0:
Let’s talk about bringing someone new to the board because we’re gonna be recruiting our new board members that are going to be part of our best better board. So now if we’ve recruited the right people, we need to socialize them to the organization. It’s more than I think. It’s more than just formal training. You know, the the organization has a culture. The board has a culture. Hopefully, they’re healthy. Let’s assume, but let’s take that. Let’s assume that these are healthy. Culture is not. Not. Cultures were trying to reverse, uh, you know, like intolerance or something. But healthy cultures. There’s a formal training and an informal training.

[00:20:26.74] spk_1:
I absolutely agree with you, so you know orientations can start even at recruitment. But once you decide that you want to elect somebody onto the board and they want to be part of the board and you elect them. I think it really is important now for them to be ingrained in what the organizations and the board culture is, what the priorities are getting a better sense of what the programs are. I’ll confess. I’ve been part of boards where I may not have a very good understanding of some of the programs. I get lost in some of, you know, again, the financial reports and maybe one program officer. You know, a year shows up and describes their program well, that that’s not really giving me a full sense of what the organization is doing. So more of that, um, is really going to be beneficial. Um, it will also help in sort of preventing there from being this wall between who the board is and who the staff and who are. The people that are actually implementing the program are other than the executive director, so boards often just meet with the executive director. But in an orientation or training, I think more deeply getting ingrained and that’s a board staff retreat. Joint retreats are good things. Board buddies and maybe a board staff buddy system could also

[00:20:31.34] spk_0:
is that like is that a mentoring board board buddy?

[00:20:53.34] spk_1:
Yeah, I think it could be partly mentoring, but I think the relationship really extends both ways, right? We can get more information from an outsider’s perspective to help the organization, and when they have fresh eyes, they may see different things. So instead of just saying, I know more than you, I’m going to mentor you. We can be buddies and learn from each other.

[00:20:56.64] spk_0:
And then you mentioned staff buddies, too.

[00:21:21.34] spk_1:
Yeah, I I don’t think it’s a bad idea for boards again to get more involved with their staff. We don’t want to micromanage. So there is this fine line there. But just getting an understanding from the staff about what they see in the organization, I think is important other than the executive director who may be the one who attends every board meeting. But if we just see one other staff member once a year, that really isn’t giving a sense of what is going on and what the organizational culture is. We might know what the board culture is, but do we really know what the organizational culture is?

[00:22:10.34] spk_0:
If it’s a staff buddy, it’s not only micromanagement, from the board member down. But then you also have to be conscious of the staff member trying to leverage a relationship with a board member like trying to do something or avoid doing something that the CEO may want or their vice president that they report to may want or something. You know, uh, that just it has to be managed. That’s all. Just You have to be conscious of the possibility of somebody exploiting and a relationship with the board members saying things that are inappropriate. The board members.

[00:22:52.14] spk_1:
I think this has to be designed with a consultant who really understands the area because you’re absolutely right. Tony. Yeah, if you if you aren’t careful, what you’re doing is you’re creating people going behind the executives back to make complaints to board members. And that’s not what the purpose is. So it might be controlled by saying, Hey, the board staff buddy thing is a meeting of the board and staff person in a joint group in a group where we’re all meeting in different corners of the room and just talking about certain specific topics so it can be regulated a little bit more carefully with rules of the game spelled out in advance. This is not a place to complain about employment issues. This is Yeah.

[00:23:04.34] spk_0:
Um, what do you like for board terms? What do you have? Advice? Two years? Three years? Should How many? How many years or how many terms should board members be allowed to continue on?

[00:24:00.64] spk_1:
Um, there’s there’s not, you know, one specific answer. I hate the lawyers. Answer. It depends. It does. But let me just say in a large number of cases, I like the 2 to 3 year term, both balancing a little bit of need for continuity and giving a fair expectation to a new board member of that. This is not just going to be a one year thing and you’re out. Um uh, and I like to have board terms to make sure that the board doesn’t become very insular and its thinking and in its diversity by keeping board members on perpetually until they’re ready to resign. It also makes it hard to ever remove a board member if people think that they have a right to serve on the board forever. So I kind of like board members not to be on board for, like maybe five or six years. Um, having said that, there are times

[00:24:02.67] spk_0:
when to not be on for five or six years

[00:24:04.99] spk_1:
to beyond that

[00:24:08.44] spk_0:
beyond. For five, like maybe two, 23 year terms, two year terms or 23 year terms of the most

[00:24:41.64] spk_1:
something. Something like that. Now, a lot of exceptions to that, if you have, if you had trouble building aboard and you have some great champions on the board. But those have been kind of the long term people who really know and really invested, and everybody else has been sort of lackluster. Um, I don’t think you should kick off your strongest board members, so you have to really think about that before you implement it. It is sort of an idealistic goal to have those term limits and, um, 2 to 3 year terms. But in other situations, I would say one size doesn’t fit. Also, take a look at your own board composition first before you make those type of decisions.

[00:25:19.94] spk_0:
What about in terms of socializing to the board, having social events for the board? Occasionally, Maybe it’s a dinner after a meeting. Um, I wouldn’t have cocktails before a meeting. But you could have cocktails after a meeting, you know, trying to get the board to get to know the members, to know each other outside the board. What else do you do? You go skiing, you go snowmobiling. You know, you’re a Fisher fisherman. You know things like that.

[00:25:26.34] spk_1:
Yeah, I love that idea. I’ve even had cocktails before boarding. So,

[00:25:31.63] spk_0:
uh, all right,

[00:26:10.84] spk_1:
but yes, um, for board members to trust each other and to be open to each other’s ideas and respect each other, the more you know each other, the more likelihood that that’s all going to happen and that you’re going to actually build the board culture rather than have people who don’t know each other who are trying to get out of the meeting, to watch a basketball game or be home with their family and sort of sit and say, This is my duty. For the next hour, I’m going to sit here, take notes and listen and try to do my job. But think of it just as a job. It’s going to be less productive. I think that if you come in and say I love these people that are kind of get to work with. And we’re trying to build something great so we can make change in the world or in our community. And so I really like coming to these events and getting a sense of it. Sometimes there’s, you know, those ice breaker things you know, for five or 10 minutes in front of a meeting that can be hit or miss and oftentimes a

[00:26:33.10] spk_0:
miss. How many people can you talk to in 10 minutes?

[00:26:35.46] spk_1:
Yeah, and that’s another reason why you shouldn’t have too big a board as well. If you have 50 people at a to our board meeting, how many people are going to get to

[00:26:51.84] spk_0:
talk, right? That’s yeah, So I know that I know your answer is there’s no hard and fast answer for this one. But since you just let into it, share your advice on on board size,

[00:28:13.54] spk_1:
Yes. So my maybe not so helpful advice is not too few and not too many, um, that if we dive down a little deeper, you need, um or you’d like to have as many board members as you can utilize to help you govern the organization and help the organization and the board do its best job. So if that number is eight, or if that number is 15, that’s, you know that may be your ideal board size. It’s more important to me to get the right people on the board, um, rather than the right number. But if you can, if you have less than five and you’re a mature organization, I start to worry that you’re gonna lack that diversity in many different perspectives. Um, and if you’ve got more than 20 I have a feeling that a lot of board members feel like their contributions are not being heard because they don’t have an opportunity to sort of verbally contribute, especially if there are few dominant board members at meetings and in a two hour meeting, even 20 people are going to have a chance to say how much about how many issues it will be very few. So to really think about that, and you want to encourage board members to attend every board meeting, not just sort of half of the board meetings or think that they can take a free ride because you’ve got enough people to do that job. I’ll just help on a committee. You don’t want them to feel that way. You want them to feel very invested.

[00:28:31.24] spk_0:
So you feel like an expectation is you attend every board meeting either physically or virtually.

[00:28:33.84] spk_1:
I think that’s the expectation. And if people are missing, you know, one out of 41 out of five meetings, one out of 10 meetings, you know that might be acceptable for special circumstances. But you don’t want it to be a habit. I think you want to aspire to have everybody attend all of them.

[00:28:58.64] spk_0:
Okay, Um, what do you What do you feel like talking about board wise that we haven’t talked about yet? Let’s not go to how to get rid of a board member yet that’s that’s toward the end. What’s your what’s on your mind around your best? Better board?

[00:30:44.94] spk_1:
Well, we talked about kind of the expectations of what the board should do, but they think each director’s gotta ask that question of themselves as well. And maybe that’s part of the board. Recruitment and orientation package is kind of a list of however many 10 things that board members should aspire to do themselves, uh, to be part of this board and attend all meetings. We talked about that, but what else should they do? They should review financials regularly, so if they’re getting a financial before each meeting, they should review them. They should know that they are expected to ask questions that might be at the board meeting or that might be before the board meeting. But if they’re getting information aboard package in advance, which they should get, um, about the matters that are going to be up for discussion at the board, they should know that they should review it first. And if they have any questions, they should share it with the group. Um, and that doesn’t happen enough, in my opinion, that there are these questions and everybody saves it for the board meeting, and then they run out of time to discuss all the issues that they want to. So just having it kind of on an email sort of mass email, the board package comes out on email, and people can ask questions about it so that everybody gets an advanced preview of what some of the issues are before you go into that board meeting and then start to discuss things a little bit more detail. Some of those things might need a little research to be answered to. The executive might have to talk to an accountant or a lawyer or someone else and say, Let’s find out what the answer is and you know that does away with that issue even before the meeting, if you can share that information. So that’s another thing to just think about.

[00:31:35.04] spk_0:
What about managing the board? Uh, some. Some larger organizations have a board liaison where that’s probably not most of our listeners with someone who’s devoted to the board. I think that’s more like university style, big university style. But there doesn’t have to be a lot of staff support for the board. I mean, not only the you mentioned getting the board packages to them at least a week. I’d say in advance, maybe a week or 10 days in advance, something like that. But it goes beyond that. Board members have questions. Have these questions that you’re suggesting they ask in advance of meetings? Um, committee work has to be supported. How do we How do we make sure that we’re giving the board members the support that they need.

[00:33:00.24] spk_1:
Yeah, and it’s a great balance. Is it? Well, it’s a great question, but it is a tough one to answer because of the balance that you have to think of. You want the board to be informed so that they can be of help to the organization. But you don’t want the board to put on so many demands upon the staff that they’re really hurting the staff’s ability to do the work of the organization, the programmatic work that’s needed. So there is a little bit of balance there. I know many staff members and executives hate kind of preparing the board for the board meeting because it may take so much work. Sometimes it’s because they’re trying to justify what they are doing to the board, because the board may come in with a little bit of a negative skew about, you know, prove to us that you’re doing good work of some kind. That may be the perception that the staff is getting. I don’t think any boards are overtly saying that, but I feel that staff can come into it a little bit defensively in preparation of board materials rather than this is an ally of ours. This should be the strongest ally that we have this board group. Let’s give them information and questions for them so that they can help us do our job better. Um, and that takes time. But how many staff are involved with the executive? Certainly is meeting with them. That probably goes without saying if there is a financial person there other than the executive, that person should probably have frequent contact.

[00:35:45.54] spk_0:
It’s time for Tony’s take to the podcast. Pleasantries. They gotta go out. That’s what we start with. Plan giving accelerator that’s coming. The podcast. Pleasantries. Uh, I’m enjoying the nostalgia of sending these again. I’ve missed it. I guess I I ignored it for a while. My my mistake. I’m sorry about that. Pleasantries to you, our podcast listener. Well, you individually. But there’s more than just one of you out there. There’s over 13,000 of you out there. So, to the podcast, listeners pleasantries. You know, I’m grateful. I am. I’m glad you’re with us. I’m glad you’re learning that non profit radio helps you helps your organization open conversations, take action steps, open discussions with the board. Your CEO, your vice president, Whoever it is, you bring stuff too. I’m glad it helps you do all that. And I hope there’s the action steps to I’m sure there are. There is. I’m sure there are the action steps. I’m sure there are. Thanks for being with us. Thanks for being with me. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners. Each of you plan giving accelerator that is the online membership community that I created to help you get your plan giving program started and growing. It’s a membership that you join for a year, and I teach you month by month lesson by lesson, Step by step. Everything you need to get your planned giving program started and growing. If you’re not doing planned giving and you would like to be, is it on your to do list? Have you, like so many folks? Say to me, Had this on your mind for a couple of years. You can get it done. You can get it started to get the initial thing started, and that’s done and then the program continues. I mean, the program doesn’t finish after a year. You continue your playing giving program indefinitely, of course, but you’ll get plan giving off your to do list. You get the going done. Your started 2021. The next class starts April 1st, all the info on how to pick my brain and have me teach you planned giving starting up step by step. Is that planned? Giving accelerator dot com. Okay, that is Tony’s Take two. We’ve got Boo Koo, but loads more time for build your best better board with Jean Takagi.

[00:36:41.93] spk_1:
I didn’t mean to downplay the role of somebody from programming coming in speaking to the board once in a while, I think I wanted to say that that was insufficient for the board to know what’s going on programmatically. But having people come in a little bit more regularly, or at least providing materials to the board more regularly about the program’s impact, you know, and that could be through stories as well. I’m kind of like in fundraising make the board engaged with what the organization is doing programmatically and invested in doing more to help the organization do better with its programs, either serve more people are doing in a better way. You want to create that connection so that the board rallies around you and actually helps you rather than just again just providing oversight and saying We want to make sure everything is lawful. Give us all this information to make, you know, make sure that we can do that. You want to do get more from your board.

[00:37:26.53] spk_0:
I like the idea of regular presentations at board meetings from from program staff. Maybe the 1st 15 minutes of a board meeting every time is from some different employee. Maybe maybe it’s not a unique pro, maybe not different programs every time. But I like the idea of devoting some board time each each meeting to to programs to what our work is, but but not being acquainted by the CEO. But having someone who’s on the ground doing the work answering, I think that would be a real fertile ground for questions to from the board and provides ongoing training.

[00:37:28.53] spk_1:
I think so, too, and maybe even somebody who is a beneficiary of the services

[00:37:32.89] spk_0:
beneficiary to yes

[00:37:51.23] spk_1:
to say Hey, you know you get a chance to speak to the board to because we want to know what you feel about our programs and our organization and how you’ve been treated. So, um, I think those things are good, and I I again think, tony, that will just energize aboard to want to do more if they feel more connected to what the organization is actually doing and not just reading about it and listening to the executive tell them about it.

[00:38:15.32] spk_0:
What about that important CEO board chair relationship that should be very collegial? It should be supportive. What what’s your advice around for? The CEO is probably mostly CEOs listening, although we do have board members listening. But probably we have more CEOs than we do board chairs. So what’s your advice there for them? Although

[00:39:07.82] spk_1:
I’ll say that probably a fair number of CEOs have actually acted in the capacity of a board chair as well and other organizations, so they may understand some of the roles from both sides. I think my advice is what you have just said, as well as to have this collegial relationship and develop one where there’s one of trust where the CEO is not afraid to go to the board and say, I’ve got some bad news. Um, I’m looking for some guidance on this. If the CEO is always about, um, my pay or my job security can be affected by telling bad news to the board chair. So I’m going to try to, uh,

[00:39:09.52] spk_0:
show hide it, make it sound, not as bad as it is not. Be completely honest, etcetera.

[00:39:26.32] spk_1:
Yeah, I think of what you know. For profit, boards of directors may say to their shareholders in public companies, Right, like you want to pose the best view of that organization as possible. I don’t think that’s a healthy relationship for nonprofit board to have its executive,

[00:39:37.42] spk_0:
and and that should be frequent communication to I mean, shouldn’t shouldn’t the CEO feel comfortable picking up the phone and seeking the advice of the board chair?

[00:40:20.31] spk_1:
I think so. And if it’s not the board chair, I I think it’s okay at times. So your board culture is going to have to allow for this, but for them to pick up the phone and talk to another board member, So I’m when I serve on the board. I’m sometimes the only lawyer on the board. I want the CEO to be able to talk to me. I’m not going to be their legal counsel, But I might have a point of view. Or I might spot an issue if they feel like, Hey, is this something we need to talk to our lawyer about? Maybe our board chair wouldn’t be able to answer that question. But maybe I would as a board member. So, yeah, I like the CEO of being able to reach out to multiple board members for for different issues. Yeah,

[00:40:48.21] spk_0:
all right. Should we should we talk about terminating board members the topic before before their time is, Do so Let’s say, you know, a three year term and they’ve been on for a year, and they’re obstreperous, lackluster, unkind. They don’t belong. Let’s just for whatever reason, they don’t belong.

[00:43:09.10] spk_1:
Sure. What do we do? Yeah, it’s a real tough one, right. So, um, sometimes you have to look at it holistically. So oftentimes I get a call and that situation will arise. But it will turn out that that board members also the biggest donor to the organization right now you’ve got to think a little more diplomatically and strategically about how to do this. Um um So again, not one size fits all But one method that some organizations have used has been to say, Let’s talk with this board member and try to find the best role for them in the organization and see if we can move them off the board but into this other role, whether it be advisory, um, or whether it be in an, uh in an honorary position for being, you know, uh, something emeritus. So give them a fancy title. Ask them to show up at fundraising events, um uh, or to to speak to two foundations when you go out with them to do a pitch, maybe that’s where their strength is. And maybe there’s enough there of their passion for the mission and for the organization and what it does. While they don’t have passion for doing the work of a director in a strategic and diplomatic way, they may still have passion for the mission of the organization. And let’s try to take advantage of that, um, and use it in a way where nobody will use sort of the Asian mentality of nobody loses face right, like so everybody gets to keep their dignity and look good. But let’s try to take advantage of not having that person be disruptive on the board anymore. And if that person isn’t giving you much of a contribution in any way, then once in a while removal is an unpleasant but sometimes necessary option. And boards may have to decide that again. Uh, they’re going to ask somebody where they’re actually going to vote to tell somebody, um, that their services as a director are no longer needed, Um, but that has to also be done diplomatically. You have to be careful of alleging reasons for doing that because that could get you involved in a defamation lawsuit from that person if they’re upset with it and litigious so carefully.

[00:43:20.20] spk_0:
So this should be something that’s in the bylaws, then removal of a board member. Yeah, you need to have a documented process.

[00:44:17.09] spk_1:
I think that’s right, tony. A lot of, um, boards have eliminated that from the bylaws because you see that as a negative. But then they would default to the code, right, and they’re not going to usually look up what the code says about removal. It has to be done in a certain way, and in some cases it can get a little bit complicated. If you have a voting membership structure like for certain charities, they might have members who actually elect their board members. It’s more common in trade associations and homeowners associations things like that. But some charities have voting members, and removal, then becomes a lot more complicated. But having it having the procedure in your bylaws at least gives you kind of like the encyclopedia. Look at how to do this properly without feeling like it’s going to be too hard. We can’t do it and just live with it.

[00:44:26.89] spk_0:
I’m not familiar with this model you just described because you and you said it’s some five oh one C threes have elected board members. So

[00:44:28.78] spk_1:
yeah,

[00:44:29.71] spk_0:
so it has. The board has voted members on and can only remove them,

[00:45:22.59] spk_1:
actually the opposite way. So members elect the board members, so the members are responsible for electing and potentially removing board members. So you might think of that more in terms of like a union or a professional association or homeowners association, where all the homeowners elect the board. If they don’t like the board, they’ll remove them and put somebody else on to that board. So some charities are also structured that way. And that was to sort of been seen as a more democratic process of ensuring that the board stays responsive to what the members think. The mission is supposed to be, um, for smaller organizations. I generally don’t recommend it because it’s more costly. It’s much more difficult to manage and administer. Um, but nevertheless, I would say about 5 to 10% of the charities that we run into small charities we run into are structured that way.

[00:45:32.49] spk_0:
Not ideal, though, but they’re trying to be democratic. And

[00:45:36.99] spk_1:
that’s right.

[00:46:19.48] spk_0:
Okay, I see. All right. Well, that Yeah, that conversation to to hope that opening that conversation with the director to be removed is is hard. Maybe maybe the maybe the board member themselves themselves, uh, maybe the person. Maybe they can’t find the right pronoun. Maybe that person isn’t happy in the role either. That’s a possibility. It could be. You know, you could sort of open the conversation with it. Seems like, you know, this isn’t as you were suggesting, and I’m kind of putting a few things together. It seems like this isn’t quite the right role for you. You don’t seem happy as a board member. Uh, you know, you could open the conversation that way in trying to find something else to offer

[00:46:43.88] spk_1:
them. I think that’s a great way often to frame that that situation. I actually wrote an article for the nonprofit Quarterly. I think called something like 10 Reasons Why a director made gracefully want to resign from their organization, um, board. And so, yeah, framing it from their perspective and what they’re not getting is probably a good way to start it.

[00:46:59.58] spk_0:
I thought of something else before we wrap up. What do you think about junior boards, you know, maybe have an advisory role? There’s sort of a training improving ground for future board members, whatever you call it, might. It might just be the advisory board or something. But what do you think of that? That having, uh, that in your organization,

[00:47:26.78] spk_1:
I think you’ve done well. It works. Um, really Well, it raises potential future board members and gives you an introduction to the organization. Rather than bringing somebody straight into the board. They have a chance to be part of whatever you want to call it an advisory committee or, uh, the junior board. I would be careful with the name, depending upon who you’re planning to put on it.

[00:47:30.99] spk_0:
So junior board is not so good. All right.

[00:47:33.37] spk_1:
Unless it’s for, you know, unless you’re putting minors on it for advisory positions. Okay. Okay.

[00:47:44.08] spk_0:
But advisory, an advisory board advisory committee. And and it gets to be seen as a stepping stone for some folks to the board membership.

[00:48:04.17] spk_1:
Yeah, and to offer thought leadership from different perspectives. Um, so I think that’s good. But if you’re trying to increase diversity through an advisory border, Junior. But I would say Be very careful to make it not look like it is of less importance. And that’s why these people were put on that.

[00:48:54.37] spk_0:
Oh, yeah, right. Right. So all your yes, all your all the folks of color and other underrepresented groups are on the advisory board. Yeah, that’s well, that’s a sham. Alright, That’s right. Exactly. That’s inhumane. Alright. Yeah, I’m surprised you thought of that, Gene. You’re well. You see the good and the bad. All right, you’ve It’s not that you thought of it. You’ve seen it. You’ve seen it. I guess it’s It’s out there somewhere. All right. Thank you, Jeanne. Outstanding. Outstanding advice. Jeanne Takagi, our legal contributor. You’ll find them at nonprofit law blog dot com. You can find him at Columbia University if you’re a member of their student body in, uh, what is it? The nonprofit nonprofit management program at Columbia?

[00:49:01.07] spk_1:
Yep.

[00:49:07.17] spk_0:
Okay, so you’ll find him there. You also find him at neo law group dot com and you’ll find him at G T A K at G Tech. Thank you very much, Gene.

[00:49:12.87] spk_1:
Thanks, tony. Been a pleasure.

[00:50:05.17] spk_0:
My pleasure. As always. Thanks. Next week, I’m asking you to trust me. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot c o. Creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty, you’re with me next week for nonprofit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. Mhm

Nonprofit Radio for January 11, 2021: PPP 2.0

My Guest:

Gene Takagi: PPP 2.0

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi returns with the ins-and-outs of the second round of Paycheck Protection Program help for your nonprofit. He’s our legal contributor and managing attorney at NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

 

 

Listen to the podcast

Subscribe to get the podcast
Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Stitcher

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

I love our sponsors!

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

 

Dot Drives: Raise more money. Change more lives.

We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 520_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20210111.mp3

Processed on: 2021-01-10T22:40:39.338Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2021…01…520_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20210111.mp3.454479925.json
Path to text: transcripts/2021/01/520_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20210111.txt

[00:01:50.04] spk_1:
non Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite heh abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of Vibe bro Sis, if you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show P P P to zero Jean Takagi returns with the ins and outs of the second round of paycheck protection program. Help for your non profit. He’s our legal contributor and managing attorney at Neo. The non profit and exempt organizations law firm Antonis Take two. I’m still optimistic, were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives. Prospect to donor, Simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant demo and a free month. What a pleasure! Genuine pleasure to welcome back Jean Takagi. You know him, for God’s sake, but let’s do the formalities he deserves. Gina is our legal contributor and managing attorney of Neo, the non profit and Exempt Organizations Law group in San Francisco. He edits the wildly popular non profit law blogged dot com, and there’s the American Bar Association’s 2016 outstanding non profit lawyer. He’s a part time lecturer at Columbia University. The firm is that neo law group dot com, and he’s at G Tack g T a k. Welcome back, Jean. Happy New Year.

[00:01:52.04] spk_0:
Happy New Year, tony. Great to be back with you. It’s

[00:01:54.34] spk_1:
good to have you. Thank you. It’s outstanding, lawyer. Now, that’s five years old now.

[00:01:59.14] spk_0:
Yeah, I think that that probably has to go down the wayside.

[00:02:25.54] spk_1:
Take that. Actually, Is it more embarrassing now then? It always has done What? What’s he done in the past five years? Exactly. I’ll take that. Alright, we’ll take that out from starting next time. All right, Um, so the paycheck protection program is is back version 2.0. Um, what what’s your what’s your overview of it? The p p p re ducks.

[00:04:28.64] spk_0:
So it’s a good thing, of course, and it comes in sort of within the broader context of a kn appropriations act that’s to help stimulate the economy. And we know how hard co vid and, um, all of the shutdowns that have been caused by the coronavirus, all of the health care issues we have presented a huge challenge for our economy and for the nonprofit sector as a whole. I think back in August, The Washington Post had written some article that suggested one third of nonprofits could ultimately shut down at the end of this crisis. I think that might have been a little overblown. Hopefully, the vaccine is going to contribute. Thio Um, the development of several vaccines contributes to a little bit more of a recovery, but we still seem to have a long slog through this. And that’s why more money needed to get out to stimulate the economy and particularly nonprofits who are impacted two ways. One by just less money coming in. Less revenues, less donations. Andi the greater need for so many people who need the service’s of non profit. So the good part of the second kind of draw of the P P P loans is that there’s more money been made available. Um, it’s still not enough in my personal opinion, and hopefully we’ll see more, but 11 of the really good things about this second draw, the P P P loans is that you can go in for a double dip now, So if you are a kn organization. One of the I believe it’s 180,000 non profits that applied and received the first round of loans. Who came, actually, which came into parts? Um,

[00:04:29.30] spk_1:
180,000. Sounds low to me. I’m not I’m saying that I heard it was more. But of the 1.51 point six million or so only 180,000.

[00:04:40.14] spk_0:
Yeah, I believe that’s the number that that I I have that that actually received loans

[00:04:45.13] spk_1:
12% or something like that.

[00:04:47.94] spk_0:
Yeah, on dhe. You know, so out of those, the original set of loans under the Cares Act on day one of the amendments to that so you could only come in once, so you get one loan out of them. You can’t go back in for another loan. Um, so this second draw actually allows a nonprofit that took out a loan, used it up, or is going to use it up to come back in for a second loan. And that’s really important with the covert crisis dragging out.

[00:05:47.84] spk_1:
So, um, let’s see, just I know you You introduced a second raw, but let’s let’s talk about the folks who maybe did not get a p p p low in the first time. So that so for nonprofits, That s so they they certainly are eligible this time to, um, let’s talk about like, you have to have fewer than 500 employees, which I’m sure all our listeners do. Um What who else is what? Like what else you have to do to be eligible for for a loan first time through.

[00:05:50.64] spk_0:
So I think that the numbers actually 300 or fewer on that

[00:05:54.93] spk_1:
isn’t that for the, isn’t it? For the second draw?

[00:06:59.74] spk_0:
Yeah, I think this whole thing is sort of called. I’m sorry. You’re right, tony. So that that refers to the second draw for for, um, organizations that have received a P P P loan. So it’s 300 or fewer. The original draw was 500 or fewer. Um, and demonstrating at least a 25% reduction in gross revenues between the same quarters in 2020 and 2021. So you took a look at the first quarter. You measure first quarter versus first quarter, second quarter versus second quarter. You can’t mix and match. So the same quarter in two years if you experienced at least 25% reduction in gross revenues. And that’s how you had reported in the 1990 year gross revenues figure, then you would be eligible for for that, that second draw. And I believe that’s the standard for the first draws. Well, um, and it’s subject to a maximum of 2.5 times. The average monthly payroll costs up to $2 million in this round.

[00:07:10.94] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. And those payroll costs, you can choose, right? A period between eight weeks and 24 weeks. Correct that. You want that you want to be compensated for And that and, uh okay, that you wanna be compensated for, right? So, between to two months and and six months,

[00:07:26.84] spk_0:
right, starting on the origination of the loan. Okay. Yeah.

[00:07:37.44] spk_1:
Okay. But but to be eligible, you have to demonstrate a decrease in gross revenue of 25% or more. Correct. Incomparable quarters. Okay. Okay. Now for folks who again, this first draw the first time through it at this point so far, um, they should be going to their bank. Right? You need a bank. That’s that’s s B A Small Business association approved, but it seems like your bank will be the place to start at least looking for where you can find a lender.

[00:07:59.74] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s that’s the place to go to get the application forms. And yes, the S B A operates the loan through the sort of approved banks that

[00:08:09.88] spk_1:
the bank. Yeah, And in my experience, if your bank isn’t an S b a approved lender, I had heard that your your bank can help you find one. You can also just search for them in your area. But you might be able to get a referral from your own bank if they’re not a S B A lender.

[00:08:28.06] spk_0:
Yeah, and you can, I think, find that out on the Web as well. If

[00:09:18.64] spk_1:
it’s time for a break, turn to communications. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times You wanna be in papers like that? What about CBS Market Watch? The Chronicle of Philanthropy. Turn two has the relationships with outlets like these. So when they’re looking for experts on charitable giving non profit trends for philanthropy, they call turn to turn two calls, you turn hyphen two dot CEO now back to P P p. To point out now all the all the money you get, even though it’s called paycheck Protection Program does not have to go to a paycheck. There’s other things that you can spend what up to 40% on

[00:10:53.34] spk_0:
that’s That’s exactly the number tony. So 60% has to be payroll related expenses that that you are using the funds for but up to 40% could be used for other things. And in the first round of the Cares Act sort of payroll protection plan, program loans or forgivable loans, they had things like mortgage, certain qualified mortgage payments and rent and utility expenses. They didn’t offer a lot more. So this round, this second draw, whether you’re taking it for the first time or not, I’m just going to refer to it is the second draw. Okay, he BP loans. You can use it for four other covered expense areas, and they include operations expenditures, which sort of refer to software and cloud computing service’s for businesses and have to do with payroll H R. Accounting all of those things. So if you need that, you can use it for those things property damage costs if they happened in 2020 and they were not covered by insurance and that might be related to looting or other public disturbances. UM, covered supplier costs which are for purchase of goods that are essential to the operations of the business, generally made pursuant to a contract that was in effect prior to the covered period of the eight or 24 weeks. Ah, nde covered worker protection expenditures, so that’s really important. So that includes the PP, eat of personal protective equipment, face masks and everything else, and also operating and capital expenditures that air related to meeting worker or customer safety requirements. So if you need to put barriers up, you know those plexi barriers between things like that,

[00:11:22.27] spk_1:
maybe upgrade your h v a c so that Z Okay,

[00:11:23.04] spk_0:
okay, so you want to take a look at what the requirements are in your area. If you need to spend on that, um, this is also going to be available for those type of expenses up to 40% so again, 60%. This is mostly focused on payroll in keeping people in jobs. Andi organizations operational, but 40% realizing that you do have some other costs that you need to have to be able to run the business. It’s not just employees, so this was a little bit more thoughtful in sort of creating that that those uses for P p p loan funds.

[00:12:39.04] spk_1:
Let’s talk about forgiveness because that’s a big advantage to these p p p loans that if you do it right, your loan could be 100% forgiven if you do it right. So what do you have to do right now? I know we don’t know about, like, forgiveness forms that even for the first round. I mean, I in my business got a P p p low in the first round, and I’m still waiting for guidance on forgiveness. It Z S B A has gone back and forth many times, and so my bank doesn’t even have the forms ready yet for forgiveness from the first loans, which I got like in March or April or something. So but there are guidelines about what you’re supposed, how you’re supposed to spend to be eligible for the give nous for the forgiveness when the forms and the process do ultimately come out. So what’s What’s what is s b a saying there,

[00:12:56.34] spk_0:
So yeah, first, just a comment on whether we’re going to see those forms out soon

[00:13:04.68] spk_1:
so we could get the loan forgiveness from from March or April. Yeah,

[00:13:09.24] spk_0:
yeah, eso It’s been a long time. The S b A actually has some forms out, and they did come up with a little bit of guidance in December. But the individual financial institutions, the banks haven’t yet developed all of their own forms on DSO. Yes, it’s a combination of looking at both of those forms, and we haven’t seen much happening there across all banks. Yeah, so that I think will be coming pretty soon, but we haven’t seen it just yet.

[00:14:03.94] spk_1:
I guess I should be kinder to the S B A to I think overall, they managed a new emergency program pretty well. Eso you know, clearly their priority was getting the money out, not worrying about the forgiveness at the back end. So, uh, not trying to be harsh against SB A. They’re working under short deadlines and people in great need, So they focused on what’s more important getting money out. All right, so what do they say about how you should spend if you wanna have your loan forgiven.

[00:14:08.44] spk_0:
So one of the things is what we talked about earlier. About that 60 40 split. Well, that is the requirement for loan forgiveness. So if you don’t want the loan to be forgiven, you don’t actually have to look at that 60 40 split, right? You could just pay back the loan at the interest rate, which I believe is 1%. Um, but I think nonprofits have taken out this loan, have taken it out with the very intent that it be forgivable loan and to use it for those purposes. So in order for it to be forgivable against, 60% must be used for payroll related expenses and 40% for those other covered categories that I mentioned. So, you know, the mortgage, the rent utilities and those four new categories that came out with this second draw that would apply only to the second draw amount. So amounts coming out of this 900 billion that that was part of this new act that came off this new relief act. Um,

[00:15:25.04] spk_1:
you wanna make sure you keep your documentation so you can prove when it does come time for the forgiveness application, because you have to apply that you can prove that you spent the money on the bona fide expenses that are allowed. And you didn’t spend more than six more than 40% on the on the non payroll. Correct? Yeah, to be documentation.

[00:16:20.94] spk_0:
And what I’m hearing back is from the first application, which you’ll soon see tony. The reports that they asked for are pretty complicated on dhe tough, and they’ve gone back and forth on like what to include and what not to include. But it can be pretty tough. The good thing is about this second draw. This new act that that was signed into law the just a few weeks ago at the end of the year is that if the loan was for 150,000 up to $300,000 or less, it’s going to be a one page one. So they’re going to make it super easy, and it’s really gonna you know, they haven’t released what that form exactly looks like. But they said what they’re going to ask for is the number of employees that you were able to retain the estimated amount spent on payroll costs. So did you meet that 60% basically, the total loan value and an attestation? So you basically you’re signing saying, I attest that I complied with all the requirements of the P P P loan program. So rather than documenting every single thing out, if it’s $150,000 or less, get most of the listeners. They’re probably going to fall into that category. Um, they’re going to be able to do with the one page form. But there are several larger nonprofits that they’re gonna have to file the more complicated forms. And to get you know, to your point, really good records really critically important for this because you do want to get this loan. Forget

[00:19:54.44] spk_1:
it’s time for Tony’s Take two. Yes, I’m still optimistic. Even after what happened last Wednesday at our nation’s capital and the Capital building I still am. The optimism is for the whole year. It’s not just for the first 10 days, so I still feel good. Look, they’re already started arresting people for the trespassing and the unlawful entry into the Capitol. They’ve already arrested folks. So and there’s gonna be many more coming, so that gives a little bit of short term, uh, solace. I think that people face justice for their transgressions against our capital. But beyond that, beyond that, I just look forward to new years and I am feeling good that the country will be in a better place. The world will be in a better place this year. Then it was last year 2020. I mean, think about the pandemic to look how much further we’ve come in. Just what? The past 4 to 6 weeks with vaccines rolling out. Okay, Not as fast as they were supposed to have, but vaccines air rolling out. I think it’s gonna be a good year. 2021. I say. It’s gonna be a good year. That is tony Steak, too. Let us return to P P. P to zero with Jean Takagi. There’s something that you and I talked about, um, earlier in 2020 when the first paycheck protection program loans were offered was it was a little complicated Then if you had gotten another kind of loan, the e ideal economic injury disaster loan and you if you gotta an advance on that, which I’m not sure those advances really went out the way they were supposed to, but they were supposed to be, like, up to $10,000. You get in, like, within three days for the e i d l. But I know in my own case, I applied for that. But, um, didn’t didn’t it didn’t end up really being needed. And it was nowhere near the three days. Um, it was more like three months, and it all just came at 11 time. That’s a separate. But so that was related to you know that advance if you if you got it was related to paycheck protection program forgiveness, the S B A. Wasn’t gonna allow you toe be forgiven on ah e ideal loan advance. Now, you don’t have to worry about that anymore, right?

[00:19:57.31] spk_0:
Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s one really good thing about this

[00:20:01.09] spk_1:
two minutes set up for something that doesn’t matter anymore.

[00:21:00.74] spk_0:
But it is important because some some of your listeners may be out there thinking, Oh, I can’t You know I can’t get this. Um uh, advance if I want loan forgiveness on Now it’s like, No, you can you can get both. So that’s really important that they repeal that former restriction on DSO. Now you can get both. Just a reminder for that the ideal stands for economic injury disaster loan on dhe It is alone, except when it’s called an ideal grant, Um, or advance. In which case, the idea is is that you’re going toe Qualify for it If you’re located in a low income community, you suffered an economic loss greater than 30%. So this is a little bit more stringent. And the second drop TPP loans

[00:21:04.31] spk_1:
25%.

[00:21:05.09] spk_0:
Yeah, and the same requirement that you employ not more than 300 employees. So it’s it’s a different program. I misspoke earlier and talked about $900 billion being the P P. P program, but that 900 billion was actually the total

[00:21:19.48] spk_1:
that was the fullest

[00:21:47.34] spk_0:
package. Yeah, eso of that 284 billion roughly was for the P P P program. Second draw loans that were coming out again, Whether you’re taking it for the first time or second time again on 20 billion for the e I. D. L grants those ran out very quickly on DSP. A page has still not been updated. Web page has still not been updated. So it will currently say we’ve run out. We don’t have these available, but we’re waiting for the update as a result of this new act, so you have to just keep looking for it.

[00:21:56.04] spk_1:
Okay? Okay. The money is there for the the ideal grants,

[00:22:10.54] spk_0:
but it’s 20 billion versus 284 billion for the P P P second draw loan. So it is a smaller pool of money. So just toe, be aware that that yeah, you’ll have to go in pretty quick if you’re going to qualify

[00:22:21.04] spk_1:
in the second drawer. Loans got, um, expanded with 501 C six is now now eligible. Which they weren’t before.

[00:22:31.34] spk_0:
Yeah, you know, I think non profit that’s really wanted, like a za sector. They said, why is it restricted? Just to 501 c three. There’s lots of other types of nonprofits that air doing important work here that are going to get tremendously impacted and small businesses are allowed toe sort of get the benefits of these loans. What about like chambers of commerce, especially for, like small regional areas that could really impact multiple businesses, and not just one or organizations that are focused on the travel business industry. So if you’ve got a trade association of related to travel, they can impact a broader industry and to lose them, um, could be really detrimental thio an entire industry and not just to a single business. So the idea was, let’s get other nonprofits involved or eligible as well. So 501 c six. That was kind of the lobbying for the 501 c six is specifically on. Yes, they become eligible for this P p p round A ZX well, but they have some of the same requirements, so they can’t employ more than 300 persons. But they also have some lobbying limitations. Um, that air there, so s

[00:23:42.90] spk_1:
so if you’re a C six, you gotta look closely.

[00:24:08.64] spk_0:
Yeah, and one other thing just about this and I won’t go into the details of C six. But generally speaking, um, the government said, if you are a lobbying or political like organization, that was principally into lobbying and political activities. A lot of five but one C four organization social welfare organizations would fall into that category. Um, then you are not eligible for the PP, and that remains still a restriction on participating in this. So the 51 C six is that that participate? They really they’re all sorts of lobbying number restrictions that are involved. But generally speaking, if you’re principally a lobbying organization or political action organization, you will not qualify for these

[00:24:31.91] spk_1:
and see fours are not eligible.

[00:24:34.24] spk_0:
Yeah, so by and large, yeah.

[00:24:54.84] spk_1:
Okay. There was a lot in the press about the deductibility of the expenses that you use the money for. I’m talking now about the the 40% That’s non payroll. Um, initially, you weren’t allowed to deduct what used to be deductible if you spent P p p money on it, which was kind of, Ah, a clawback. You lost the deduction. They have the money was forgiven if you did it right, but you had a but you couldn’t deduct the expenses that you spent it on. So it was like it was like giving and then taking that’s that’s been changed. Those expenses, air now deductible.

[00:26:23.41] spk_0:
Yeah. Although let’s sort of frame it to tony that most nonprofits, that we’re talking about our tax exempt in the first place so they don’t have to worry about deductions except with respect to their unrelated businesses. And so, for taxable and for taxable entities. Yeah, Or if, if a non profit does have unrelated business income resulting coming from a specific business and that gets a little bit more complicated, it is really important to know that if you receive the P P p loan and you spent money on some of those expenditures that you can actually deduct from it. So the rationale before is that the government is giving you money so you shouldn’t be able to spend it and then get another tax benefit of a deduction with it, because the government just granted that money to you. But overall, in terms of stimulating the economy, it was just too popular. And just to important to the overall goal, Thio restrict that from happening. So yes, now you can get a P P p loan and you can spend it on legitimate business expenses within that sort of that that range of qualified expenditures that we talked about and you could get a deduction for those things as well. So yeah, good point.

[00:27:39.34] spk_1:
Thank you. Thanks for clarifying to time for our last break. Quote. There’s nothing as simple as dot drives. Our executive team meets once per week to sit down and go through our dot drives pipelines. It’s fun to watch them have a healthy dialogue and to see them get excited about their numbers rising toward their goals. Sounds exciting. That drives has allowed us to take those key relationships and bring them to a deeper level. End quote. That’s Wendy Adams, director of donor engagement at Patrick Henry. Family Service is prospect to donor Simplified. Get the free demo from DOT. For listeners, there’s also a free month. Go to the listener landing page at tony dot Emma slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for P P p two. What else? What do you wanna talk about? Tpp Wise way didn’t cover.

[00:28:11.94] spk_0:
Well, I thought I’d talk about something a little bit fun just to start off with E. Sure. So there’s the three martini lunch deduction, Um, which is a kn interesting deduction. Um, but basically, you know, I think it’s been since the eighties, where that if you had a business expense and this is again mostly for for profits. But it’s one that puts a little bit of a smile on my face, although there’s some serious consequences that can flow from it. But

[00:28:14.03] spk_1:
we’ll go ahead and smile. Gene, allow yourself to smile. Yeah, you have to qualify your given unqualified smile.

[00:28:31.04] spk_0:
So since the mid eighties, I think if you are I in our separate businesses tony took somebody out, took each other out for lunch, You know, 50% would be deductible if it was a legitimate business lunch. Um Well, um, President Trump and the outgoing administration really felt important to give back um, Thio 100% deductibility. Eso business lunch is going to be deductible up to 100% for two years s. So this is sort of received the nickname the three martini lunch deduction. Um and yeah, I mean, there implications to this because obviously this will have a tax impact. And I believe the final document that put into the PDP loan in the whole stimulus package in late December with somewhere around 15,000 pages, So I can’t imagine that somebody has read all of this yet. Um, but the impact the economic impact of this will eventually be sort of a judge. But this could cost, you know, the government a billion or $2 billion in lost revenues. So it does have implications there.

[00:30:00.14] spk_1:
Can this also have impact for, um, employee of a non profit? Who lets, say, does a ah business lunch and their employer does not reimburse that expense. So then when they’re deducting, they can then deduct that expense if they itemize, and it would now be fully deductible instead of only 50% deductible. Is that is that true for non profit employees?

[00:30:32.64] spk_0:
I don’t believe tony. So generally I think, you know, the best interest would would be for the non profit to reimburse, employ. Um, but if the employee is going thio state that it was, ah necessary business expense, it’s going to be a little bit more difficult. Thio do so for them. And I don’t think that they would get um

[00:30:33.23] spk_1:
Yeah, like if they took a donor, Suppose they took a donor to a lunch?

[00:31:18.14] spk_0:
Yeah, for that again, I would think it would be the nonprofits responsibility. Thio to to reimburse them if they individually took them out. I’m just wondering how that business expense would work out where they don’t have a sole proprietorship. You know, as I think about it a little bit more, tony, I guess the rules would still apply. So it is just a question about whether they could get the deduction in the first place. They can get the deduction in the first place, and it’s possible that the 100% rule might apply. But I’m not sure that it would in this case, because it’s not necessarily their business expense. So I don’t think I have anything definitive for you, but it’s kind of like, you know, the auto expense deduction. So if you know if your business

[00:31:28.31] spk_1:
car for business purposes right, you get 57 cents per mile or something like that, whatever it is,

[00:31:34.92] spk_0:
yeah, gets adjusted every year. But if you’re doing it for ah, non profit organization, your deduction rate is much, much smaller. It’s I can’t remember the number, but it’s like 14 cents, um, so you don’t get the same benefits when you’re doing it for another organization?

[00:31:53.82] spk_1:
Is that for a volunteer or that applies to employees. Also,

[00:31:57.84] spk_0:
it would apply to anybody who’s taking that deduction on their own s. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Best for the non profit to reimburse.

[00:32:34.54] spk_1:
Yeah. Spitballing. Okay, um, I’m glad you’re smiling over the three martini lunch. That’s good. Let’s go. What? Well, we could cynically say that was a gesture A KN award for focus on Well, doesn’t have to be Wall Street, but we could be most cynical and say it was for the president’s Wall Street friends to now deduct all there all their fancy meals in New York City at 100% instead of only half.

[00:32:40.54] spk_0:
Yeah, that’s right. And I I think that’s the cynical viewpoint

[00:32:50.54] spk_1:
e. There’s no question of that. That’s time. But then there’s the

[00:32:51.25] spk_0:
other side of that. Well, can stimulate the restaurant

[00:33:11.14] spk_1:
well, and they stimulate the restaurant economy. Yes, industry. And also there are small businesses. Everybody does not own a Wall Street business in New York City. Of course. All right. Onley only only holds 80% true. Um what? Anything else? Anything else that you think non profit need to know about P p p two point. Oh,

[00:33:16.64] spk_0:
well, I think out of the same kind of act where the pee pee pee loans came out of was important provisions regarding the charitable contribution deduction. So as long as we were talking about deductions, I thought it might be important to know that

[00:33:30.57] spk_1:
for your donors,

[00:33:48.44] spk_0:
Yeah, so for donors. So when we talked about deductions and itemizers, you know, as a result of the Trump Tax Act, um, some years ago, now a tw the start of his administration, we ended up with having, you know, itemizers, um, mhm being reduced from, I think, something like 35% of all taxpayers, down to about 10% of taxpayers. Meaning that 90% of taxpayers would not get the benefit of a charitable contribution deduction because they would take the standard deduction rather than itemize. It would be better for them. So the vast majority of taxpayers, the math, vast majority of small organization donors are not going to get a tax benefit from giving a charitable contribution anymore. So, you know, we’re still relying on them to do it because they believe in the organization and its mission and the people there, and you know what it’s doing but the tax benefits not going to be there anymore until the cares Act provisions last year that said, Well, even if you’re non itemizing, you can deduct up to $300 Is an individual $600 for a married joint filer? Um, above the line, basically. So you can you can get that deduction even if you’re not itemizing.

[00:34:55.48] spk_1:
Take the standard deduction, but you can add another up to $300 per person,

[00:36:21.13] spk_0:
Right? So what this bill does is it Extended it out. So now we will. The previous bill was going Thio run out and we’ve got now an extension of this for another year, so that is a good thing. So that was only gonna last through 2020 Now, Now we have it for 2021 A ZX well, and and, uh, another thing or are somewhat related thio that are just sort of other relief provision. The measure provides an additional $300 per week and unemployment benefits through March 14th is gonna be helpful. Um, there’s a moratorium on evictions that was going to expire December 31st, 2020. And now that’s, um, uh, going to be extended out for a month. Not very much, but every little bit helps right on $25 billion available in additional federal funding for assistance to renters. So we will see if that if that actually plays out. And finally, there’s an extension of the Cares Act employee retention tax credit through July 1st. So that’s a credit. So versus a deduction, which you take after you figure out what your taxable, you know, um, in determining your taxable income. I’m sorry. And the credit after you figured out what your taxes are that would apply against your taxes. So there’s an employee retention tax credit. Um, that’s been made a little bit simpler. It’s a little too complicated for probably people’s interest on this radio program. But take a look at it as a tax credit might be really valuable to some organizations that might not otherwise qualify for PDP. Forgivable

[00:36:46.96] spk_1:
long. Okay. For employee retention. Yeah. Okay. Okay. How about we leave it there? Gene Sound. Okay,

[00:36:54.03] spk_0:
That sounds great, tony.

[00:37:58.63] spk_1:
Okay. Thank you again. Thank you for doing P p p re ducks. Two point. Oh, uh, course. Gene is managing attorney of Neo. You’ll find the firm at neo law group dot com. He’s at G Tack, and you should be subscribing to the wildly popular non profit lob log dot com. Thank you very much, Jeanne. Always a pleasure, tony. Thanks Next week. The hot sauce principle. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives Prospect to donor. Simplified for a free demo and a free month. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty. Be with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for July 31, 2020: 500th Show!

I love our sponsors!

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Cougar Mountain Software: Denali Fund is their complete accounting solution, made for nonprofits. Claim your free 60-day trial.

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Claire Meyerhoff (co-host), Scott Stein, Gene Takagi, Maria Semple & Amy Sample Ward: 500th Show!

It’s Nonprofit Radio’s 10th Anniversary and 500th show! It’s also our last live stream. After today, we’ll be podcast only. To celebrate all these milestones, we’ve got the whole gang together. Claire Meyerhoff, our creative producer, will co-host. We’ll have live music from Scott Stein, composer of our theme music, Cheap Red Wine. Each of our esteemed contributors will join in: Gene Takagi, Maria Semple, and Amy Sample Ward.

We’re collecting your stories to read on air: How did you get into nonprofit work? Hardly anybody chooses this when starting their career. How’d you get started?

Yes, prizes from Cura Coffee.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Cougar Mountain Software logo
View Full Transcript
Transcript for 500_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200731.mp3

Processed on: 2020-08-01T01:12:32.478Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2020…07…500_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200731.mp3.18929047.json
Path to text: transcripts/2020/07/500_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200731.txt

[00:00:57.60] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the unlearned. 95%. I’m your aptly named host. That live music can only mean one thing our 5/100 show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I did get slapped with a diagnosis of Corretta Conus. If I saw that you missed today’s show the 5/100 it’s non profit radios, 10th Anniversary and 5/100 show. It’s also our last live stream. After today, we’re gonna be podcast only to celebrate all these milestones. We’ve got the whole gang together. Claire Meyerhoff are creative Producer is co hosting. We’ve got the live music from Scott Stein, composer of our theme music. Each of our esteemed contributors will be with us. Jean Takagi, Maria Simple and Amy Sample Ward, and we have a bunch of surprises.

[00:01:44.64] spk_2:
Our 5/100 show is sponsored by Cure Coffee connecting coffee lovers with coffee farmers and their families. Kira coffee dot com. We are also sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Visit tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial. And we are also sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn Hyson to dot co. That’s turned hyphen two dot co.

[00:01:50.24] spk_1:
That professional voice can only be one. It’s clear. Meyerhoff. Claire Meyerhoff, Welcome,

[00:02:01.24] spk_2:
tony-martignetti. This is the first time for us on Zoom. But I feel like you’re right here because you’re right there on my laptop.

[00:02:14.71] spk_1:
It feels it feels close. Yeah, Every every anniversary show has been, ah, in the studio. This one, of course, can’t be. But we pull it together because it’s the 10th anniversary and I’m grateful to you because you’ve been creative producer of this show since, like Episode one before that Episode zero You were creative producer.

[00:02:20.81] spk_2:
Yeah, about a little over 10 years ago, you and I had a dinner and you said, You know

[00:02:24.64] spk_5:
what I want to do. I want

[00:02:25.37] spk_2:
to do a radio show and I said, Do

[00:02:27.19] spk_5:
you have any idea how hard it is to do a radio show? And you’re like, No, I don’t care. I’m doing a radio

[00:02:32.22] spk_2:
show. Will you help

[00:02:33.62] spk_5:
me? And

[00:02:33.97] spk_2:
I said, sure. And here We are 10 years

[00:02:38.63] spk_1:
old playing love it, love it and you have that professional radio training to so that. But also

[00:02:43.96] spk_2:
I have a background in radio

[00:02:45.39] spk_1:
indeed, indeed. So how have you been? How are you managing what’s going on at the PG agency?

[00:02:51.53] spk_2:
Well, you know, I help. I help nonprofits of all shapes and sizes with their plan giving. And so that’s been fun. And I’ve been honing some of my skills at home like learning GarageBand and some different things that I didn’t have time to learn before. So that’s been that’s been quite interesting of a few new little endeavors, and I have some nice clients. It’s been interesting because I started out 2020 with this list of five clients I was working with, and then all of a sudden in March, like it all just changed and some went away, and one that was like a little project turned into now, like my main client, because they were in a different situation. So it’s really shown us sort of the fluidity of things in the nonprofit

[00:03:31.95] spk_1:
world. Well, that’s very gratifying. They love your work so much that they brought you in to do more.

[00:03:38.24] spk_2:
Yes, well, they had they had more need, and then other people had less less need and less money. So, um, I like more. More money and more need. That’s always That’s always good. When you’re independent person like we are,

[00:03:49.44] spk_1:
money follows expertise. That that’s you. And you. Um hey, Scott’s dying. How you been? I’m good. How are you, tony? Oh, fabulously Scott Stein, of course. The composer of cheap red wine, which you’ll be performing shortly. What’s been going on musically for you since, uh, late march?

[00:04:37.11] spk_3:
Uh um, Well, it’s certainly been a little slower than usual, as you can imagine is not a whole lot in the way of live music. Um, but finding ways to stay busy. Um, I teach and said my teaching it just has just gone online. Um, I have a couple of choirs that I conduct, and we are finding new and creative ways to stay active and stay connected and keep making music online. Ah, we all miss each other very much, but this is a good way to stay connected and, um, actually doing a couple of gigs here and there, mostly via zoom occasionally have been able to do an outdoor, socially distanced concert, Um, doing one a week from Sunday in Brooklyn, where I live, and, um so that’s always good. It’s just it’s just you just have to stay busy and stay active and and And that that keeps you motivated keeps you moving

[00:05:01.47] spk_1:
the online concerts. That sounds like an interesting idea. Yeah,

[00:05:10.88] spk_3:
it Ah, it works. You know, Um, it’s, um I think it’s probably gonna be with us for for a while, and but

[00:05:14.84] spk_5:
it’s, you know,

[00:05:47.00] spk_3:
it’s a nice way to play. It is a little weird. You finish a song and you’re used to hearing some sort of a pause and you just hear nothing. And so I mean, you hear you see people on mute clapping. It’s very And also when you banter, that’s the thing. Like, you know, we try to keep things light. And if you make a comment that you think it’s funny and you don’t get a response, it’s like I don’t know that was funny or not. I have no idea. I’ll just assume it was It’s strange, but it’s ah, you know, it keeps us making music, and that’s you know that’s the main thing right now.

[00:06:34.57] spk_1:
I attended a couple of online stand up comedy shows, Onda 1st 1 The producer kept this audience muted because he was afraid that people would be charming, intimate. But that was very disruptive to the comics to not know your I’ve done some some stand up, not to the caliber that these folks have, but you’re playing to the audience when the audience, when the laughter starts to subside, you know, you start talking, you don’t you don’t want a dead zone of no laughter, you know, and you got a time it. But they couldn’t do that because they don’t have the feedback. So but the producer learned, and then all the other shows. You know, the audience has been un muted, and they’ve been respectful and no hecklers. But it’s important for that. That feedback, you know, for a comic, just like you’re saying for a musician to get feedback.

[00:06:46.34] spk_3:
Yeah, And the best part about about doing this via Zoom though, is you do get a heckler. You can mute that person. Yes, you can. You can do that in a club. So? So there is that advantage. The

[00:06:57.07] spk_1:
equivalent would be like cutting off their head or having having I think security bounce there bounced their ass out, right? Yeah, In a live setting,

[00:07:05.47] spk_3:
it’s It’s a much less it requires a lot less aggression to just hit mute. Yeah, I kinda like that.

[00:07:20.24] spk_1:
Claire, did you do any any, um, performances by type, like your You void with that professional voice of yours, you have a podcast.

[00:07:21.77] spk_2:
I do have. I have a new podcast and I’ll be happy to chat a little bit about it. And that’s appropriate because the name of my podcast is charitable chitchat with Cathy and Claire

[00:07:34.91] spk_1:
considerations as much as I do. Well,

[00:07:36.54] spk_5:
it all works out

[00:08:23.10] spk_2:
cause it’s also Cathy with a C and clear with the sea. So we really like all our C. So I do it with with my friend and colleague Kathy Sheffield from Fort Worth, Texas, and she’s a very experienced, planned giving person, and she and I have talked about doing it for a while. And then when Cove it hit, we said, Well, we have no excuse. So I learned how to do garage band and record stuff, and I do all the editing and production, and Kathy and I do a podcast and it’s planned, giving focused. And each episode we have one guest, and we’ve had some awesome guests on from the California Community Foundation and North Well, Health Um, Nature Conservancy and a wonderful volunteer from the Girl Scouts of America who’s helped bring their plan giving program in less than 10 years from 400 plan giving donors to 4000. Yeah, nine years, so very successful programs. So we have a lot of great shows coming up, and, uh, it’s charitable. Should check dot com with Cathy and Claire.

[00:08:34.27] spk_1:
Is that that’s Is that what prompted the GarageBand learning that you talked about?

[00:08:43.04] spk_2:
Yes, it definitely prompted the GarageBand learning, and I had plenty of time to learn that. And, you know, I have a production background, but I had never worked with GarageBand, so some of it was intuitive and others. I was looking all over YouTube for tutorials and found some really helpful things. And hey, if I can do it, anybody can do it. So it’s It’s been a lot of fun, and it’s, you know, it’s nice to have a new project during Cove it because there’s nothing new, right? It’s like the same same house, Same different day.

[00:09:05.24] spk_1:
I did something similar. Other and audacity.

[00:09:07.64] spk_2:
Well, that’s great. Yeah, Audacity is a great A

[00:09:29.43] spk_1:
comparable GarageBand s. I knew so little about audacity when I started. I was ready to write a big check. I figured this is such a popular program app. It must be like 200 or 250 bucks. And that’s how little I knew about it. It’s free. Yes, audacity is absolutely. But I didn’t know that’s how little I knew. Right now I’ve gotten familiar with it.

[00:09:30.72] spk_2:
Well, there’s a lot to do when you learn like podcasting on your own. There isn’t sort of one solution out there That’s kind of like, Oh, the podcasting solution. No, you have to like, you have to record your interview on something like Zoom and get that into an MP three. Then you jump that into GarageBand or audacity. You cut that up, you add your music. That’s another situation, and then you have to up. I uploaded to Buzz Sprout after I’ve produced it, and then from Bud Sprout, you have to subscribe to the different service is like apple podcasts and Spotify and I heart radio and do that and and then you do it over and over, and it’s It’s a lot. It really is a lot to learn. There is a learning curve with do it yourself podcasting.

[00:10:21.69] spk_1:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, You said you said you bring in the music. Let’s let’s bring in the music. Hey, Scott, remind us. Cheap red wine. Now, this is Ah, been our theme song for many years at ATTN. Non profit radio. Remind me the genesis of rind us the genesis of cheap red wine, please. And then and then play it for us.

[00:11:10.94] spk_3:
Sure. Ah, song Ah, I recorded it on a record back in 2009 record called Jukebox, and I’d wrote it probably about a year before that. Um, I like to describe this is coming from my angry young man phase. You wouldn’t know it from maybe from listening to it, but ah, yeah, I was. I was living, um, on the Upper West Side of Manhattan and, um, social circles that Iran in when I wasn’t playing, which was to say, my roommate’s friends Ah, there was a lot of people who worked in law and Finance. And I think they didn’t know quite what to make of me. They didn’t kind of understand that you could play music for a living, and, um and so and it’s also a big single scene up there. And I was single at the time, and I got a little cynical because I sort of felt like I was just in the wrong profession to be dating. So this some kind of grew out of that? Um I will add that I have been happily married for seven years now with, uh, with a wonderful son. So it all worked out, but anyway, so that’s where the song kinda had its origins.

[00:11:34.88] spk_1:
Alright, Please, Scott Stein. Cheap red wine.

[00:14:43.24] spk_0:
Just keep on talking sooner or later off around. What you mean a TV screen way in each other? You know, I used to find a charming can hands now promise diamonds. They won’t tired of the cut of clothing that I will wear good stuff too easily distracted. Teoh, I got too many options, so I’m gonna My goodness. But maybe you have some competition with radio. A wealthy man. I got used promises on the way for Heaven’s national victor Sound. Nobody else. No way You used a charming but

[00:14:45.88] spk_2:
I can’t

[00:14:46.43] spk_5:
think

[00:14:49.46] spk_0:
how. Never mind it.

[00:14:50.32] spk_5:
Don’t matter now

[00:14:56.71] spk_0:
Your time promises.

[00:16:03.74] spk_1:
I love that song, Scott. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks. There’s nobody waiting in line. We’re just, like, cheap red wine. Thank you. I love it.

[00:16:07.77] spk_3:
I I remembered those lyrics

[00:16:14.04] spk_1:
I don’t worry about that happens. So, Claire, I got this. I got some new venture planned giving accelerator

[00:16:19.38] spk_2:
s. It sounds very, very exciting.

[00:16:21.78] spk_1:
You in the plan? Giving space. So, yes,

[00:16:23.44] spk_2:
I am

[00:16:31.68] spk_1:
in the, uh, arena of shameless self promotion. Uh, okay. Planned giving accelerator. It’s, um it’s a membership community. I launched it two weeks ago. Nonprofits joined for an annual membership on, and I will teach them everything I know about starting and then growing. Yes, Land giving programs.

[00:16:45.73] spk_2:
That sounds great. So is it a month? Do people come on a webinar monthly or how do what do What do people get for their yearly subscription? How does that look to the to the non profit person hoping to grow their plane giving program?

[00:17:04.08] spk_1:
No, I hadn’t thought through that? No, they, uh, like tony get we’re gonna have ah, got

[00:17:05.89] spk_5:
a nice

[00:17:08.43] spk_1:
poster. There’s exclusive. Yes, there were exclusive webinars. We’ll probably get to a month. Will be exclusive podcasts. One or two of those a month. I’ll be doing small group asked me anything. Sessions on zoom Very nine. Talk through individual potential donor challenges, Suspect challenges or Doctor, you’re marking materials in their small groups. Um, there’s a Facebook community. Very nice. All exclusive, Just two members. It all kicks off. October 1st 1st group starts October 1st, and that’s what we’re promoting for. And it’s that planned giving accelerator dot com.

[00:18:07.44] spk_2:
Well, there’s a lot of Nate out there. A lot of non profits are not in the plan giving game or in the playing giving space. They think it’s too scary. They need technical knowledge. They can’t do it. They need too much staff, whatever. But frankly, any non profit can do something with plan giving and bring in those all important planned gifts. Also, I think you’ll be helping to educate people about like asking for non cash assets and things as well, like how toe you know, do more a little bit more complex gift giving.

[00:18:25.51] spk_1:
We will eventually we’re going to start off with getting bequests, Yes, but there’s only the whole groundwork. As you’re suggesting, there’s old groundwork that’s got to go before you start. Before you start promoting, you gotta promote to the right people on. Then give them the right message.

[00:18:43.84] spk_2:
Yes, and you have to have a back end. That’s the first thing that I help my clients with. It’s like, Well, what did they have? Do they even have information on their website? Like some plate people have nothing on their website and in, um, our most recent episode of our of our charitable chitchat podcast. We had a great this volunteer from the Girl Scouts, and she got started because she had updated her estate plans about 10 years ago, and she included the Girl Scouts. And then she happened to be in New York City not long after that, where the headquarters are. So she went to go meet with the development person, just a drop off like a copy of her, whatever her paperwork and the development person wasn’t there. So she met with the CEO and she sat down with the CEO and she said, Well,

[00:19:09.89] spk_5:
you know, I was updating my estate

[00:19:11.77] spk_2:
plans and I went to go find someone for

[00:19:13.81] spk_5:
I couldn’t find any information

[00:19:38.64] spk_2:
on your website about that. Why is that? And the CEO was like, I don’t know why. And then they from there they created a whole good, great plan giving programs. So, you know, the back end is first off. You need to have some information on your website. You need a dedicated page with some request language with your contact information with your tax I d. Just a couple of things. And if you have that Web page, then you can start getting in the plan giving game.

[00:19:40.37] spk_1:
That’s the beginning. And that’s the kind of stuff we’re gonna be talking about. Easy promotion.

[00:19:44.49] spk_2:
You gotta get in

[00:20:01.38] spk_1:
identifying the right people to promote to and giving them the right message and how to do that. And then how to follow up how to talk to your board about planned to give an all important, all all to get planned giving program started in the audience that I’m always most interested in. Small and midsize shot

[00:20:12.57] spk_2:
Me, too. I love I love the small nonprofits and there’s you anyone can get started in plan giving. So I think that your program is is really great, because if if you have, don’t your small non profit you have donors and they’re gonna leave. Some charities in there will, but they’re not gonna leave your charity in their will if you’ve never promoted the idea. And you’ve never communicated the idea

[00:20:25.96] spk_1:
absolutely right that absolutely, you need to be asking. So we

[00:20:28.95] spk_2:
need to be asking

[00:20:32.04] spk_1:
if you’re ready to get plan giving Started, Planned Giving accelerator

[00:20:33.77] spk_2:
call. Well, I’m looking forward to seeing the evolution of of this, and I think it’s a great it’s much needed in the space, and I think you’ll be successful and help a lot of people along the way. And that’s that’s what we’re all about. Helping helping nonprofits, especially the little ones,

[00:21:09.74] spk_1:
and someone who’s helping me toe promote planned giving accelerator is is with us. These Peter Panda Pento is part of a partner in turn to communications just renewed their sponsorship for a second year, which we are very grateful for. I’m very grateful for Peter. Welcome to the show. Great to be here, tony. Great to be back

[00:21:13.06] spk_4:
here. Tony, we’ve been checking in very regularly over the years. Excited to be part of this milestone episode.

[00:21:29.48] spk_1:
Oh, thank you. Yes, 500 shows. 10 years on. I’m grateful for your sponsorship. You and your partner, Scott turn to what? What? What’s on your, uh, what’s on your plate these days? We’re doing a

[00:22:07.83] spk_4:
lot of media relations work these days. A lot of nonprofits and foundations that we work with are really looking for to try to break through the clutter right now and get their stories told in the media, which is a really challenging thing right now during Cove in 19. I mean, it’s always challenging, but right now we have so many media outlets that are, um, operating with with furloughed staffs and with people kind of playing out of position, covering different beats. And, ah, nonprofits are really looking for extra support and trying to figure out who they need to connect with, how they can connect with them and how they can connect what they’re doing to the prevailing story lines of our time, which are Cove in 19 and racial justice and equity. And so we’ve been spending a lot of our efforts there, in addition to working with you on the plane, giving accelerator and other things tell

[00:22:33.19] spk_1:
indeed, yes, challenging times indeed, to get your voice heard. But it’s doable. As I say in the sponsor messages. You know, if you if you have those relationships with journalists, if you have the right hook, you can you can be heard even in the in the Corona virus cacophony.

[00:23:06.21] spk_4:
Absolutely, absolutely. And the relationships are really important. And, um, what I think a lot of nonprofits and really all organizations still make. The mistake in doing is thinking they can kind of spray and pray their way to, ah, success with media relations by spray and pray Amin kind of spraying out press releases to everybody and hope and praying that somebody picks it up. What really works is when you have some relationships with journalists who really cover the topics you care about and that they’re actually thinking of you when they’re looking for sources rather than the other way around.

[00:23:12.07] spk_2:
Yes, and as a former reporter, I wholeheartedly agree, because back in the day, as a as a news reporter for working in all news radio and working in television. You would get these, like, spray and pray, kind of like press releases and stuff that had nothing to do with anything you normally cover. And you know, you really need a more targeted approach and build a relationship. And I think nowadays it’s easy to build a relationship with news people because they’re all on Twitter and they’re all on Facebook and you can follow them and comment on their on their things and get to know them a little bit that way.

[00:23:41.84] spk_4:
Absolutely. I think investing in in a handful of those relationships and really trying to make sure you’re nurturing the journalists who actually care about what and and reach the people you need to reach. There’s so much value in doing that. You’re absolutely right.

[00:23:58.68] spk_1:
This and Peter, thank you again for your sponsorship of non profit radio.

[00:24:03.74] spk_4:
I love the partnership. I’m really glad to support her head, and I really believe strongly in what you do, tony. So we’re happy Teoh to be sponsors and to be part of this great community.

[00:24:13.75] spk_1:
Thanks so much. Turn hyphen to you. Want Check them you want? Check them out. Turn hyphen too dot ceo. Thanks so much, Peter.

[00:24:20.79] spk_4:
Thank you very

[00:26:11.18] spk_1:
much, Peter. Thanks, Claire. I have a story I want to read from from one of our listeners milled, uh, Mildred Devo. I’m the founder and executive director of Penn Parental, a small literary non profit that helps writers stay on creative track after they start a family. I got into non profit work because I had the idea for this collective of supportive writers running programs to defy the stereotype, which was rampant in nearly two thousands, that having kids would kill your creative career. I was already running a salon, Siri’s, that featured the diversity of work by writers who had kids. And I wanted to do more to prove to women and men that parenthood was just a life event and not an alternate alternate career. I self funded a fellowship for writers who were new parents and a lawyer approached me and asked if I had considered turning my ideas into a non profit I never had. She helped me pro bono. Now it is 10 years later, and pen parental has helped countless writers finish their creative projects despite the challenges of raising kids issues heightened to epic levels during the pandemic. We have one arts grants from New York City as well as New York State Council for the Arts. As a writer with two kids, it makes me laugh that all the encouragement I give to other writers has just now finally come home to my own career. I finally finished writing my first novel. I Want to Thank You. This is the touching Thank you so much. I want to thank you and and your non profit radio feel that inspiring. I feel that listening to recordings of past live streams, I’ve been exposed to some of the top minds working in non profit. Today. It’s like having an M B A in arts administration right at your fingertips, or at least the faculty of one. I’ve gained a lot by listening. So thank u s touching and, uh, milled, uh, milled is with us. Well, welcome to the show.

[00:26:18.21] spk_5:
Thanks. Thank you so much. It’s really exciting to be here. Did you see me taking notes?

[00:26:22.49] spk_1:
I was already took. I was like, clock town

[00:26:26.09] spk_2:
milled. I love milled his hair. That’s beautiful. Thank you. It looks very nice.

[00:26:54.44] spk_1:
That’s got beautiful bang. Great. Did I pronounce your name? Right? Okay. Have you been listening to non profit radio for a while? I have For forever. Yeah. Yeah, I frequently when I googled something that I don’t know, I will find a link, you know, on Facebook or somewhere, I’ll find a link to a show, and

[00:27:00.51] spk_6:
it s so it works like I don’t know, because I really, really, really learned

[00:28:37.84] spk_1:
this from the ground up, just sort of as I was doing it and Ah, yeah, it’s really so we’re gonna put on a plan giving page pretty much, yes, but it’s really it’s really wonderful that you bring all these experts together and when you interview them so so many of them are so generous with their time with their contact information, like it’s kind of spectacular, But I really kind of got into your show after you did the foundation center. I love the foundation center and motivated that can with them all their candid now candid. Well, they were there were the foundation center. You’re not wrong to call them that. They were that they were that back then when But for the you did I think four sessions or some Some amount of sessions, please. And you could go there and be a live audience, or you could watch it after it. So, yes, it was. It was non profit radio month at the Foundation Center and the Foundation Center month on non profit radio. That was very cool. Very cool partnership with the Roman. Thank you. I also like all the partnerships that you have with all the different companies. Like everybody said. Just what? Um, the guy that was just on Peter was saying that you develop these relationships. Well, I think I feel like I learned something from that from you. Outstanding Milton. That’s why I do the show. Thank you so much. So, for your for your generosity, do non profit radio and for sharing your how I got into nonprofits story we have Ah, we’re gonna send you a bag of cure coffee. Uh, I love coffee. Bring me coffee. It’s

[00:28:40.70] spk_2:
a wonderful prize. How you want to hear more about it? Cure a coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. With every cup of cura, you join our effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities are around the world. We are direct trade coffee company with direct impact brought directly to you creating organic smiles beyond the cup cure coffee dot com. And that is your prize. Thank

[00:29:22.78] spk_1:
you. Listen, thanks so much again for sharing your story and for being a loyal listener. Really? It’s touching. Thank you. It’s so kind of you. I’m really grateful. And I love how you’re Musician nodded when he when I talked about having kids at home and being creative. That’s why I run a non profit for that reaction. I

[00:29:26.56] spk_3:
e that so much? Yeah,

[00:29:30.78] spk_1:
creatives are trying to create. So anybody who wants to pin Prentice said word we’d love the Have you come and find out what we dio and thank you again. So much for having me on the

[00:29:40.42] spk_5:
show was a

[00:29:50.34] spk_1:
place. Enjoy your coffee. Yeah. Yes. Pen parental as got or thank you. Thanks along, Claire. You’re You’re creative. You you’ve been writing.

[00:30:56.94] spk_2:
Yes, I am. I am, I am. It’s a It’s a blessing and a curse being a creative person because the brain just never shuts off. So we’re always making stuff from a tender age. I was like sitting on my front lawn with a basket of crayons and my mother register like an old egg carton or something in a pipe cleaners. And before you know it, we had, like, costumes and putting on a show. So that’s that’s my childhood. So I have written for you a special 1/10 anniversary problem for non profit radio. So would you like me to read it? Toe. Okay, here we go. Let’s celebrate a decade of the show by tony-martignetti. Here’s my poem. It’s goofy, so you better get ready. Tony had an idea. Tony had a vision. Tony wanted a radio show, so he made a decision. He started his show. He booked his first guest. He worked on a format, and then all the rest production with Sam Music with Scott sponsors and quizzes Man, that’s a lot Top trends and Tony’s take to non profit radio We love you. 10 years later, and 500 shows your silver anniversary, your listener ship grows your tony-martignetti non profit radio top trends. Sound advice. Should I end this poem? Yes, that sounds nice. Happy anniversary, tony.

[00:31:13.55] spk_1:
Should I send this up our mess Sounds like Thank you. Clear my raf. Sweet. Thank you very much.

[00:31:18.82] spk_2:
You got in somewhere.

[00:31:20.32] spk_1:
What a creative. I love it. Thank

[00:31:21.94] spk_2:
you. You know, it’s fun. Thank you. Something to do? It’s coverted.

[00:31:24.34] spk_1:
That’s very sweet. I am not gonna keep doing things that silver anniversary. I don’t think I thought of that. That’s right. The silver silver anniversary. Well,

[00:31:31.63] spk_2:
you know, I was thinking of ideas. I was like, What can I do for tony? Silver anniversary. And I was like, I was like, Well, it is the silver anniversary. That’s 10 years. It’s silver. So maybe I should send him, like, an engraved set of silver candlesticks. Or maybe I’ll write him a poem.

[00:31:45.52] spk_1:
Well, you could do the candlesticks to know they don’t have to be mutually exclusive. What?

[00:31:59.08] spk_2:
Amy, like those? I could do like 11 Right. You could do it for your in Amy’s tent. That wins your 10th anniversary. Did you have it? You missed it. Yeah, I missed. Okay. We’ll catch on the next one.

[00:32:00.28] spk_1:
Catch me on this one. It’s not

[00:32:01.43] spk_2:
old. Wait for your gold wedding.

[00:32:08.99] spk_1:
Oh, no, no, no. Wait. Office engineering by mere numbers it, Z, I’m gonna send you

[00:32:13.50] spk_2:
something really funny.

[00:32:22.95] spk_1:
That silver gift. I will. Then the expensive silver gift. Don’t don’t be constrained by by the artificiality of numbers. So, you know,

[00:32:24.04] spk_2:
I’m gonna go to Bloomingdale’s and register you.

[00:33:04.44] spk_1:
We got we got all our all our contributors there. Will our esteemed contributors air here? Nice. Yes, Absolutely. I see. Um, I see them. Indeed. I see Amy Sample Ward, our social social media technology contributor, and Jean Takagi, of course, our legal contributor and the brains behind the wildly popular non profit law block dot com and Maria Simple, the Prospect Finder at the prospect finder dot com. Welcome, Maria. Gene and Amy. Welcome. Hey. Hey, there. Thank you very much, Amy. See also Amy, of course, besides being our contributor and technology and social media, CEO of N 10. I was intend doing. How you doing, Amy?

[00:33:14.94] spk_5:
Um, I’ve recently been answering that question by saying that I am alive and awake in 2020 and all that that means on

[00:33:24.57] spk_1:
being in Portland, Oregon, as well,

[00:33:26.23] spk_5:
being in Portland, Oregon being at the intersection of, I think, a lot of opportunity to positively change the world

[00:33:36.84] spk_1:
Well, you three have never been on a show altogether. So I want to say

[00:33:45.34] spk_5:
I know Jean and I have definitely been on at the same time before, but I don’t think all three of us

[00:33:56.54] spk_1:
no threat. No. All three have never So. Maria, meet Jean Jean Maria. Amy, meet Amy. Meet Maria Maria, Meet Amy. Gene already knows Amy. Amy knows Jean. Oh, meet each other. Welcome. Welcome. Hey,

[00:34:03.54] spk_6:
you know, tony, I had suggested a long time ago that you should fly us all into that New York studio at some point, and so

[00:34:10.82] spk_5:
we would not have fit altogether.

[00:34:12.98] spk_6:
Since you never did that way

[00:34:16.41] spk_1:
are fly you all to the beach Now it’s much, much safer down here.

[00:34:19.80] spk_6:
Yeah, well, until this coming storm, that is. But

[00:34:37.43] spk_1:
uh huh. Yeah, Well, not this weekend. Let’s not get carried away. Like cat seven or something. We’re not doing it this weekend. No, it’s not that bad. It’s Ah, it’s like a to the one that so far it’s a one or something. Some of it’s we live, you know, that’s that’s part of our life. Living at the beach hurricane season,

[00:34:41.46] spk_2:
coming straight to your house. Tony,

[00:35:05.25] spk_1:
I got I got a metal roof. They’re gonna finish tomorrow’s good metal. Rudy’s air. Great. Two days before the hurricane, they’re gonna finish my metal roof. What color is it? It’s Ah, it’s a gray. It’s a pale grey. Very nice. It z neutral, neutral tone. Nothing. Nothing outlandish like those Clay. You know, there’s red clay colored anything but getting to cocky. How are

[00:35:05.99] spk_5:
you

[00:37:07.47] spk_1:
doing? San Francisco? It’s Jean. I’m pretty. Well, all things considered Azamiyah kind of reference does. Well, a lot of folks hurting. So happy to. To be in good health with the my family is well and good to see all of you and congratulations, toe. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Gene. And your practice has been very busy of late as nonprofits. Ah, non profit struggle bit. Yeah, a lot. A lot to deal with, obviously the pandemic and a lot of racial equity movements, which is a very positive sign. So, like Amy and trying to see some of the the silver linings and what changes and re imaginations may come out of this indeed. Quite a bit. I was I was talking to somebody earlier today that Ah It’s a good time for introspection. No. And that maybe on an organizational level two. And it may be that it’s Ah, not all. It’s not all voluntary, but, you know, some things have been foisted on us, so it seems like a good, introspective time, like on an individual level. And on a organizational level two seen a lot of that. Yeah, Absolutely. Um, and, uh, I think it’s really helpful for organizational leaders to sort of get together and start to think, um, sort of back to basics and say, What’s why we hear? What are we doing? Who are we serving? What are we trying to do? And how are we really walking the walk and not just talking to talk? Yeah, for sure. Right back. Back to basics mission for important for the board to focus on. I love actually adding values to that as well. So just saying we further admission that the mission, of course, that that’s important. David. Mission focus. But I think it’s now equally important to be Valdez focused. What we stand for. Yeah, Amy. You feeling that it Ah, 10. 10.

[00:38:18.12] spk_5:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think just gonna extend what Jeanne was saying. I think we see a lot of organizations, at least historically, Um, who hide behind a mission statement that doesn’t name inequity. Of course, mission statements are often like aspirational where you’re going and like, why you exist and because it’s those things aren’t named. They use that to sidestep accountability to those issues, right? Like because racism isn’t named in their mission. They don’t have to talk about racism. And maybe they get to say that they don’t perpetuate any of it. Right on Dhe. Now, this moment kind of. I think what you’re alluding to tony with, like it being foisted upon folks, is people understanding or at least demanding, that organizations don’t get to sidestep that, that there’s no way any of our social missions could be advanced if we aren’t ever talking about racism, right? Like that’s a root of why many of our issues even exist that we have a mission to address. So there needs to be less fear of that because the fear has really just got us to a very entrenched place of oppression. So can folks be willing to talk about that so that they can move forward and actually address that emissions and serve their communities and really be part of the change that our communities need.

[00:39:02.76] spk_1:
And we’ve had ah, good number of guests on lately talking about all those subjects on and more toe. There’s more to say about it. There’s more to the organizational journey to achieve racial equity and social justice. And I’m glad that we’ve been ableto have a good number of guests on, and I’m always looking for more on those kinds of subjects. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. Maria Semple. What’s going on? Your practice? The Prospect Finder?

[00:39:15.16] spk_6:
Well, you know, you still have no profits who are thinking about their major gift programs, obviously. And, um, it has been a good time for some of them to kind of sit back and do some research on those donors that make you know, maybe they haven’t really focused on quite a ZX much, Um, and thinking about, you know, how is the the approach to them going to be different? And so you know, a lot of a lot of interesting things going on in the prospect research and major gift

[00:39:39.16] spk_1:
world. Very simple. Of course she’s about six miles away from me or so maybe it’s a little more. I’m not sure. Except

[00:39:46.48] spk_5:
some. I didn’t realize you to work.

[00:39:48.48] spk_1:
We’re on. We’re on the same island, different towns. But we’re on the same island. Thanks. Same barrier island in North,

[00:39:54.98] spk_6:
same Barrier Island that’s being targeted by this

[00:40:01.16] spk_1:
story. Support of life, Any of us

[00:40:02.67] spk_6:
pronounced story is, you know, but

[00:40:05.62] spk_1:
what’s the name of the name of the storm? Had Allah wishes? It’s like

[00:40:09.36] spk_2:
it’s with an I

[00:40:10.94] spk_1:
I I z o or

[00:40:12.53] spk_2:
something? Yeah, I don’t know.

[00:40:13.91] spk_6:
How does that help

[00:40:18.78] spk_2:
broker? Al Rocker said it really nicely today, but the job he gets paid, like $3 million.

[00:40:22.28] spk_5:
What the Who’s so seen?

[00:40:39.85] spk_1:
Some, uh, some interesting, Which could be, ah, good or bad, I guess. Funny, like Zoom Zoom backgrounds. You’re all we’re all talking. Yeah, we all have lots of zoom meetings. All of us. He’s got He’s got a good zoom background that you saw. Wow, like I see Scott Stein right now is curious. George,

[00:40:45.21] spk_2:
he’s got That’s the best one, and I just I just put that up on lengthen, so

[00:40:48.69] spk_3:
that’s not a background. This

[00:40:53.28] spk_1:
is not about. Well, it is now my toddler’s part of your background. It’s

[00:40:55.57] spk_5:
part of your

[00:40:55.92] spk_2:
background or your back. Oh, I think you should sell that to Zoom.

[00:40:58.91] spk_3:
I thought that curious George would just lighten the mood a little

[00:41:01.88] spk_1:
bit. Absolutely. Does

[00:41:03.44] spk_2:
my love curious George

[00:41:04.92] spk_1:
is inspired me to ask. Well, who else has seen something funny?

[00:41:09.25] spk_5:
Are you saying that the virtual backgrounds are you talking about just people having things in their background?

[00:41:13.38] spk_1:
I mean more like people in their backgrounds, in their home,

[00:41:18.14] spk_2:
their real backgrounds? Well, I’ve really enjoyed watching, like I watch the Today Show on NBC Watcher And so I really studied the backgrounds, and I like to read the titles of the books on the shelves behind the people, and that’s kind of interesting. And then sometimes, like if they have their own book that they wrote, there’s like 10 copies of it. So they have, like, four other copies, and there’s like 10 copies of their book and in a couple of more copies. So I like to look at the titles like Colbert has it, and it’s funny cause Colbert’s like in his basement and non allaying and It’s just, you know, nothing fancy. And it’s like an old desk and stuff. And so I like to look at the stuff on his on his shelf. Everybody likes, you know, history books and biographies.

[00:41:54.60] spk_3:
I was you were mentioning People’s books like You can always Tell the sign of an independent musician because somewhere in there place they have boxes and boxes of unsold CDs. Right? Right. It’s, Ah, one of my band mates referred to them as a very expensive caught coffee table.

[00:42:12.29] spk_2:
Well, that’s funny.

[00:42:13.00] spk_3:
It’s kind of what they’re doing,

[00:42:14.42] spk_2:
right. You could do Wall Art with them. Like to a whole.

[00:42:17.52] spk_3:
A tribute to me.

[00:42:29.02] spk_2:
Yeah, I my one narcissists. Come on. You got plenty of time. Don’t just got the’s. No. Now with the baby and curious George.

[00:42:33.65] spk_1:
Anybody else? I’m missing Something funny. Mark Silverman just had Mark Silverman is our web guy. He just had his, uh Well, that was That was a fake background. His driving. He’s driving background, but nothing. Nobody’s, uh I don’t think I sauce. I’ve seen good lighting. People have. I see people using light to good effect. I think people have realized that turned on light makes a much nicer back. Have

[00:42:55.26] spk_2:
light on your face to like this. There’s a lot of things for when you’re lighting an interview. You know, you put light on the person’s on the person. Stay so you’ll notice Everyone has diesel around rings, and sometimes you can see it reflected in their glasses. Yeah,

[00:43:06.93] spk_1:
that’s a problem. Light rings right. The glasses. You got it. You got to be careful with the glasses, because even just your screen will reflect into the glasses,

[00:43:13.38] spk_2:
right? Like, right now, I turn that way. Exactly. Turn that way.

[00:43:24.40] spk_1:
Yeah. Now your alien, your google eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Um uh Well, what else? I feel like I feel like it’s a cocktail party.

[00:43:28.30] spk_5:
Didn’t you say we were supposed to all answer some questions? I didn’t write down the question, Waas. I don’t like what? I didn’t think about the question, but I did make the mental note of tony Has some question we’re supposed to answer. Well, how you got into nonprofits? Yes, I like that. Like, what was your reverse non profit job? You know what I like

[00:43:45.85] spk_2:
to know? What did people do before they worked in the non profit because everyone has a different story. So what did you What was your last job before you entered the non profit space? And what was your first job in the non profit space?

[00:43:59.20] spk_5:
I only have one job, not in a 1,000,000 profit space. And that’s what I was 15 and I worked in a coffee shop. Okay.

[00:44:05.52] spk_2:
And then So your first job was your non profit job.

[00:44:08.63] spk_5:
My first job was working in the in the coffee shop?

[00:44:10.82] spk_2:
No, but I mean, your first non profit job was your current Is your current job?

[00:44:14.19] spk_5:
No, but I just always worked in a non profit sector.

[00:44:16.31] spk_1:
Right? At 16 years old, she was CEO event in its inquiry. I

[00:44:20.34] spk_2:
know. Easy. That’s

[00:44:24.10] spk_5:
cool. That’s a good idea. Jean, what do

[00:44:25.46] spk_1:
you do? Before you were a non profit attorney, you were hung fancy fans. Now I bounced a lot iced. I sold insurance. I worked in a beauty salon. No retail, but the last job I had was I was operations manager for duty free retailer in San Francisco. So we’re about a $50 million a year business in the early nineties, and I had to lay everybody off cause, uh

[00:44:48.98] spk_2:
oh, man,

[00:45:11.59] spk_1:
But Bender purse ity on. So it’s 150 people gone. I continued to work doing sort of national expansion for this huge global retailer, but, uh, it made me decide I wanted Teoh work. It’s something more meaningful. So I saw this little newspaper ad for what I believe was the first non profit graduate degree program in the country at the University of San Francisco. And so the two year program in the evening. So I jumped, shipped them, left my job, work for a tiny social service organisation. Azan office manager. And, yeah, that’s schools.

[00:45:30.32] spk_5:
That’s a

[00:45:30.56] spk_2:
great story. How about you, Maria? What did you do before you got into nonprofits?

[00:46:25.21] spk_6:
I was working for a French investment bank in Manhattan per five years out of college and, um, buying and selling and trading securities and French and, um, so very different from working in our profit space. Um, didn’t enjoy it very much. Was having dinner at my father in laws who owned a fundraising consulting firm based in Nutley, New Jersey, and complaining about my job and hating it. And, um, he said, Well, I am looking for a campaign manager for a Salvation Army capital campaign Wow in New Brunswick, New Jersey, and I raised my hand. And, like you said, who said to Jean just said, Jumping ship right, I jump ship and, um, landed in the non profit space that way and in consulting for him and then branched out on my own when I started a family and decided I could do prospect research from home. So I’ve been doing I’ve been doing this home based thing and yes, for long Talking’s yes, since, uh, since the early nineties,

[00:46:48.38] spk_2:
that’s cool. So, tony, before you worked in nonprofits, you’re in the service, weren’t you?

[00:46:59.88] spk_1:
Yeah, that was That was long before I was in the Air Force left. There is a captain, and then I went to law school and hated practicing law. And then I started my first business, which did mediocre. So I ended it and became director of plan to give him at Iona College.

[00:48:12.37] spk_2:
Everyone has a great non profit story. I worked in broadcast journalism. I worked in all news radio in Washington, D. C. I worked at CNN as a news writer worked it except satellite radio in D. C. And I covered a lot of nonprofits when I was a reporter. Because you you know, if there’s this, it’s cold and you do it. Music historian. A homeless shelter You end up at a non profit. You interviewed the director, that kind of thing. So I was like the non profit space and then later started doing like a little PR for non profits and things like that, and then eventually worked my way into the wonderful world of plan giving. We That’s how I met tony-martignetti because I read an interview that you had done, and I was needed some content for another publication. I was editing and I said, Can I take your article and turn it into a Q and A. I emailed you and your like sure, and we talked on the phone. And then if I had questions about planned giving stuff for this writing I was doing, I recall tony and he was so generous with his time and we became phone friends, and then, ah, then he wanted to do a radio show, and I’m a radio person. So 10 years ago, tony started that

[00:48:16.84] spk_5:
I can’t believe no one else spent years making espresso drinks and serving sandwiches to people like What kind of non profit group of people are waiting? The only person that did that? Well, if you

[00:48:24.52] spk_2:
go that far back I worked at Roy Rogers on Long Island and you know I said, Howdy, partner. May I help you? Thank you very much. Happy trails. I worked at Friendly’s. I was an ice cream scooper it friendlies. I was awake.

[00:48:34.37] spk_5:
Nice, nice.

[00:49:16.64] spk_1:
My only espresso experiences. Where? When I was waiting tables when in my restaurant the waiters had the create the oppressors and I always cringe when people ordered them because I could never get it right. Allow when one table order an espresso, everybody else was Wait. Everybody else was late. Their entrees. Cold salads didn’t come. I cut out the suit to get to the entree and tell him I Telemann was through the kitchens. Fault I couldn’t get a Nespresso built was never right. It was too foamy, right? Old Mr Hot. There was too much steam. There wasn’t enough steam. The coffee grounds were to compressed. They weren’t compressed enough. Wow, the curses. Espresso was a 20.

[00:49:17.49] spk_2:
Tony has nightmares about espresso. Hey, that that was an Italian restaurant.

[00:49:21.63] spk_1:
It wasn’t Italian restaurant. Yes. Had to been in the example. Ward, You did many more espressos. Like I’m sure you have it better down much better down there. She’s

[00:49:28.90] spk_2:
great at it.

[00:50:36.51] spk_5:
Yeah. I mean, looking back, it just seems so interesting. I mean, you know, I grew up in a very small town, so I guess that came with dressed. But like, you know, to 15 year olds, we were alone in the shop, running the entire shop, closing it, doing all the bank deposits, you know, like so I guess it helped instill from a very young age like responsibility, this and all of that. But it also was like we we didn’t have anyone else. They’re telling us, you know? Oh, you have to do whatever this customer says or whatever is just like, you know, to 15 year old people. And we were like, No, you don’t get that thing. That’s not fair. You just demand. Like I saw you put your gun. This person did this regularly. Take their gum, put it on the side of their play, eat their food, and then mix the gum into the rest of their salad and then come up and say there was gonna salad. I’m not paying. No. Yeah. And so we would just say Like Like, we don’t know. For adult manager telling us, the customer’s always right. No, no, that’s your gun. Back to your gun. You start getting your money back, you eat.

[00:50:54.51] spk_2:
We’re gonna swallow that gum. I’m 15 and I’m in charge. Yeah, well, that’s good. You learn assertiveness. You learn responsibility. Yeah, that’s great. That’s a That’s a great story

[00:51:00.08] spk_5:
we learned far better than tony. How to make espresso drinks. That was my first exposure to people. Like to melted cheddar cheese on top of their cold apple pie. Like, you know, I learned a lot about humanity in that

[00:51:12.53] spk_1:
herd. Yeah, I’ve heard of that one.

[00:51:14.67] spk_2:
Yeah. Yeah. I worked at Marie Rogers on the island man there. I learned a lot about humanity.

[00:51:21.92] spk_1:
We get into before we get to gross beef stories. Way we got to move on. Neighbor Maria, Maria, Amy and Jean. Thank you so much for what you contribute for you. I don’t want you to go stay if you can stay because Scott’s gonna perform another song, but I want to thank you. Thanks. Thanks to each of you. For all the years you’ve been contributors. Many, many years for each of you. Thank you so much for what you give to our listeners.

[00:51:47.11] spk_5:
Thanks for having a platform that’s open toe. Lots of people. Tony.

[00:51:56.98] spk_1:
Yes. I’ve seen the regulations on 500 100. It’s amazing.

[00:51:59.83] spk_6:
Amazing mission, you 10 More wonderful years.

[00:52:02.14] spk_1:
Thank you. I will do it. I’ll do it. It’s got Let’s get Scott back. He’s got ah, that’s gonna do singing Spanish blues.

[00:52:18.84] spk_3:
I am got starting. All right, here we go. Uh, this song, like the other one, has a lot of words for me to remember. So here we go.

[00:55:58.52] spk_0:
Morning with New York. Finishing way. My doctor asked for his Is it son? I think it just man. It’s somewhere in the east of Spain where Jonathan here requires a voice like church bells rang Way No way, man Stature way to my hotel. Try to rest my head with a familiar voice Reverb woman from my bed I jumped up and ran to the window. I could not believe my ears. I believe my eyes. Neither. She stood there in the clear now had no weapon type romance. This was much downstairs. And now there’s a lady in waiting way drains. Booth door process is an engineer. And when the Paschen shots last, she went back to back way missing in this gots time.

[00:56:04.70] spk_1:
Wow. Amazing. Thanks. Outstanding singing Spanish blues. Thank you. Thank you. I love Scott Stein. Thanks so much. Scott. Yes. Scott Stein music dot com. Right. Do have that right?

[00:56:11.81] spk_3:
Yes. Yeah, that’s correct. And and thanks again for having me, tony. And congratulations on 500 yeah, always always a pleasure to to do this with you. Here.

[00:57:45.03] spk_1:
Thank you, Scott. I love I love having cheap red wine is part of our show. You’re with me every every hour. Every intro, every outro, every show. Cheap red wine is with us. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. Check him out. Scott stein music dot com. So I said earlier this is gonna be our last live show. Friday 1 to 2 p.m. Eastern has been my slot at talking alternative. Now, talking radio dot N.Y.C. since July of 2010. And this is gonna be the last one. We’re We’re going to be live streamed. The show is just gonna be a well, not just gonna be the show is gonna be a podcast only from from here on. Um, and what that has meant for these 10 years is working with Sam Liebowitz Every show I’ve credited him. Sam Lever, which is our line producer. Um, and so it’s been just Ah, wonderful run with Sam. Hundreds of shows in the studio every anniversary show, which is every July, every 50 shows in the studio before this one. Um, and I’ve just been grateful for the partnership with Sam and and the network. The talking alternative network, which is again talk radio dot N.Y.C.. Sam, you’re not able to join us by audio. It doesn’t. I see you, but Ah, you can’t, um you have

[00:57:53.07] spk_7:
to keep switching. I can come on, but I have to switch back. Otherwise the rest of the audio doesn’t go out. But I don’t think I’m being recorded right now.

[00:58:04.60] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So, Sam, just Sam just spoke. Yes, we hear him, but he thinks he’s not being recorded, and we see him. So what? He said was tony has been an outstanding host, has been exemplary. He’s so handsome. I’m blushing on the

[00:58:16.77] spk_2:
ledge of color like notion on, um,

[00:58:18.88] spk_7:
and tony does remain the into the honor, having the honor of being, besides my own show the longest running show on work. Um, there was a period of time when we had several shows that have been with us for about five years. But out of all those shows, tony is the only one who has stayed consistent over all this time and to stay with this this long. Thank you so much, tony. I appreciate you know, all of the time that you’ve spent with us. I appreciate all your support and I love your mission. And I wish you the best of luck and only the best things moving forward.

[00:59:32.36] spk_1:
Thank you, Sam. I hope listeners were able to hear that we’re not. Sam said he’s not sure if if it was recorded, but, uh, I hope it was. Thank you, Sam. It’s been just Ah, lovely, wonderful fun collaboration for these 10 years? Absolutely, absolutely so. But where, Of course, the show continues. As I said on podcast every Friday, I’m gonna keep Teoh every Friday schedule. There’ll be a brand new show every Friday. Um, available to ah are 13,000 listeners a lot of this out of. Thank you. Thank you, John. So we got to wrap it up and I want a sky. I want to thank very much Scott Stein so much. Scott stein music dot com Scott, Thanks so much for being with us.

[00:59:43.45] spk_3:
Thank you for Thank you for having me.

[00:59:47.12] spk_1:
I want to give a shout out to our our web guy. Uh ah. I always I’m always crediting him on our Mark. Silverman is our Web guy. So Mark Silverman has been has been in the background for the show. I want to say hello. You’re not You do speak. I love the background on the background guy, but you know, I made if you will, tony, don’t make me stand up alive. But here I am, tony, it’s been great. I’m there every friday for you. I put the podcast up on to the website. It’s been a long and wonderful relationship. And 10 more years make it 20. I’m happy to be there for you and congratulations. Thank you, Mark. Thanks And thanks for all your help. It’s been many, many years. You’ve Well, you’ve been since the beginning. Yeah. Being doing the back end for us. Thank you so much. I wish I was on that submarine

[01:00:35.10] spk_4:
with you when you were the captain. That would have been even

[01:00:46.84] spk_1:
more fun. Submarine? I was underground, but I was close. I was I was underground, not underwater. But you were. So Yeah, I was subterranean. Claim Meyerhoff. Thank you so much. 10 years collaborating, creative producer, co hosting every single anniversary show.

[01:01:16.17] spk_2:
Thank you. It’s really, really been a joy. And, you know, normally I come up to New York and we did this great New York show in Sam Studio and Scott lugs in is you know, sometimes I meet Scott at the door and I carry in some gear for a minute. It’s always such a tree. And then afterwards we go out and we get a bagel or something in the city and Ah, but this on Zoom was really, really nice. And I’ve enjoyed it greatly. So if you needed a guest sometime, just hit me up and zoom away. We will. I’d love to. It’s been really fun,

[01:02:19.09] spk_1:
Thank you. Our 10th anniversary 500 show. Thank you so much for being with us. I’m grateful. I’m grateful for all of each of our listeners, and I’m glad that non profit radio helps you in the important work that you are doing. The feedback I get is, um, it’s touching. I know, I know. We’re helping nonprofits with their missions and their values. That’s why we do the show. Great job. Next week we’ll return to our 20 NTC coverage with more of anti sees smart speakers. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com Like Coca mapped in software Denali Fund, is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant er, Mountain for a free 60 day trial and my turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo,

[01:02:32.87] spk_2:
and we’d like to thank Sam Liebowitz. He’s our line producer. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this delightful, fantastic, marvellous live

[01:02:45.51] spk_0:
music by the Super town, too. That’s mine on

[01:03:06.49] spk_1:
your creative producer. That’s me with me. Next week. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go up and be great. Great show. Thank you. So

Nonprofit Radio for July 24, 2020: Black Philanthropy Month & Collaborations: MOU To Merger

I love our sponsors!

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Cougar Mountain Software: Denali Fund is their complete accounting solution, made for nonprofits. Claim your free 60-day trial.

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Jacqueline Copeland & Valaida Fullwood: Black Philanthropy Month
BPM 2020, in August, examines how all forms of funding can advance the economic justice so essential for racial equity. My guests are BPM founder Jacqueline Copeland and co-architect Valaida Fullwood.

 

 

 

 

 

Gene Takagi: Collaborations: MOU To Merger

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi is seeing more interest among nonprofits in exploring co-ventures of some sort. We talk through how to start that journey internally and externally, and what form your collaboration might take. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.

 

 

 

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Cougar Mountain Software logo
View Full Transcript
Transcript for 499_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200724.mp3

Processed on: 2020-07-24T20:19:50.631Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2020…07…499_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200724.mp3.312636766.json
Path to text: transcripts/2020/07/499_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200724.txt

[00:03:13.34] spk_0:
on Welcome tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. Id. Bear the pain of familial, benign Pem Fergus If you got under my skin with the idea that you missed today’s show Black Philanthropy Month BPM 2020 in August examines how all forms of funding can advance the economic justice so essential to achieve racial equity. My guests are BPM founder Jackie Copeland and co architect Valetta Fulwood. Also, collaborations MoU to merger Jean Takagi is seeing more interest among nonprofits in exploring co ventures of some sort. We talked through how to start that journey internally and externally, and what form your collaboration might take. He’s our legal contributor and principle of neo. The non profit and exempt organizations Law group on Tony’s Take Two planned giving accelerator were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As, guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Ger Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo. Here is Black Philanthropy Month. It’s my pleasure now to welcome Jackie Copeland and violate a full would to the show. Uh, anthropologist Jackie Copeland is co founder of Pan African Women’s Philanthropy Network, a global association of African descent, and allied women leaders, donors and activists of all backgrounds. Idea Whisperer. Wait, no, there’s more to say about Jackie. Sorry about that. Jackie founded Black Philanthropy Month in 2011. She’s founder and CEO of the Wise Fund, promoting human rights through equitable funding and technology towards a just society and sustainable planet. It’s at the wise fund dot, or GE, and she’s at Jackie Be Copeland Idea Whisperer. Valetta Fulwood has a client base that ranges widely and her interests center on social innovation in philanthropy, education and the arts. She helps people and organisations Dr Bold ideas forward by guiding their projects and by writing their stories. She’s at Valetta dot com v a l a i d. A. And at Valetta F Jackie Vallejo Welcome. Welcome to non profit radio.

[00:03:16.23] spk_1:
Thanks me.

[00:03:19.78] spk_0:
Absolutely pleasure to have you, Jackie. Let’s start with you. You’re the founder of Black Philanthropy Month. What’s it all about?

[00:07:00.44] spk_1:
Well, um is inspired by all of the diverse people I’ve worked with from the U. S. African Americans, but also to black diaspora worldwide for 30 years. And it’s clear that people give and give abundantly, but often do not fully recognize the power and impact of their individual giving and don’t even necessarily see themselves as philanthropists. So it was specifically inspired in 2011 by a very diverse group of black women in Minneapolis. At the time, it had the most ethnically diverse black population in the country, and everyone was giving. There were ancient giving circles that were being replanted and adapted to the U. S. All kinds of social enterprises. And I became like the pro bono adviser, and I knew it would be powerful. Even I knew all these women, but they didn’t know each other. And at the time I was teaching philanthropy at the University of Minnesota, which hosted the formation of this this group Pan African Women’s Philanthropy Network that I started and based on that experience, I thought it would be helpful if there were actual month where we step back. Ah, as a global community and recognize are giving is import and how to do it better, better and more collaboratively so that we can have a greater influence on the social and economic and environmental challenges that face black people wherever they are on the planet. So that was the genesis of it. It was also inspired by the U. N. Had an international decade for people of African descent. Also recognizing that there were these common, this common threat of history in common challenges that require more visibility and social action. It became a decade recognizing, um, people of African descent. And so now the U. N has recognized black philanthropy mom as an important pillar in um, acknowledging a celebrating black culture globally and now third, I think 30 plus different government entities from cities, towns and states have recognized Flat Philanthropy Month, and I think we’ve counted 17 million or so people engaged so far. So it’s becoming a global movement, which is part of what I was hoping for. But Valetta will tell the story of how they she got involved, and there’s another woman who couldn’t make it today who I always want to acknowledge. Tracey Webb, who was a pioneer in her own right. She created the first black philanthropy blogger I’ll call Black Gives Back. And she also is the founder of a prominent giving circle called Bled Black Benefactors. And so that’s kind of the story that was me as founding it. And I, um, for three years was doing it, um, largely alone and with some of the women from Minnesota and inflate a in Tracy.

[00:07:06.43] spk_0:
Okay, a poignant that it’s founded in Minneapolis.

[00:07:10.94] spk_1:
Uh, yeah, for obviously genesis of our whole reasons. Yeah,

[00:07:15.70] spk_0:
Genesis of our old racial conversation. Now, after the murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis.

[00:07:35.28] spk_1:
Well, Minhas Minneapolis is a unique place where the best the greatest social challenges of America and some of our best opportunities are sort of concentrate it. And so, as I look back, is not surprising that this new phase of the global racial justice movement would have come out in Minneapolis

[00:07:45.24] spk_0:
before we turn to Valetta doing Do you know the the impact of the rough dollar amount of black philanthropy in recent in last year? 2018?

[00:08:27.37] spk_1:
Well, there haven’t been studies recently. Eso Most of us are citing data from 2000 and 14 and for about 20 years there’s been research on US black philanthropy, and all of it confirms that African Americans continue to give the highest proportion of their income to philanthropy, and that’s even in recessions and effect. Our philanthropy goes up in a recession.

[00:08:28.64] spk_0:
There are

[00:08:45.64] spk_1:
always communities. Philanthropy goes down in a recession, but for a lot of cultural reasons, and people don’t realize this is like a hardwired part of the culture is how you become grown and recognized as an adult you have causes

[00:08:48.07] spk_0:
does. It doesn’t

[00:08:48.90] spk_1:
start ever amount that you are giving to and supporting with your time, talent and treasure as part of being black.

[00:09:46.64] spk_0:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness. I got a message from my bank that they have presentations on this, but they’re only for bank clients. That’s fine for me. But what if your lender doesn’t have resource? Is if they just send you a link to their form? Wegner has you covered their latest free wagon are explains the state of P P P loan forgiveness. What’s forgivable? What documentation do you need? How to work with your lender? Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com Click Resource is and recorded events now back to Black Philanthropy Month with Jackie Copeland and violate a full would. Does it start or did? It doesn’t have its roots, its roots in churches.

[00:10:02.24] spk_1:
It has his roots in churches, but in part because the church is such an important social institution in our multi century history in the US But if transcends churches, it is also a voluntary associations is wherever two or more black people are gathered, they figure out something to give

[00:10:21.99] spk_0:
to, however later. Lett’s bring you in. Um, if you wanna talk a little about the black philanthropy months. But then I also want to talk about the summit that kicks it off on on August 1st.

[00:12:44.77] spk_2:
Oh, yes, great. So I was there in 2011 in Minneapolis when Jackie convened the Pan African Women’s Philanthropy Summit and um was really elated when she announced August is Black Philanthropy Month, in part because at that same time, I had just finished on my manuscript for the book, giving back a tribute to generations of African American philanthropists, and the book was gonna be released in October. So this convening in August in Minneapolis was some timely and to be gathered with other black women from across the globe to learn and also to share about. My forthcoming book was, um, really It’s for inspirational and just great timing. So I continue to follow Jackie’s work with black philanthropy months as I rolled out the book and engaged in book talks around the country. And then in 2000 and 2013 I reached out to my friend Tracy Web, which Jackie Jackie mentioned earlier. And Tracy had a huge following with her Blawg like It’s back dot com and also was building a network through my work around the book and thought, Hey, you know, we can really amplify and magnify black philanthropy. It’s the three of US war to join forces and use our respective networks and collective networks. Teoh, you really take Black Follansbee months to another level. So I reached out to Jackie, pitched the idea, uh, which I thought was pretty awesome. But I really hope she might see the same. And she was gracious and oh, saying yes to women that she only knew slightly and, um, when we rolled out, let Philanthropy Month in a new way, particularly leaning on social media engagement and our connections there. It really did take off and go to a whole, another level nationally and globally, which gave us a glimpse into the possibilities. So ever since then, we’ve been working in collaboration.

[00:12:47.90] spk_0:
Was just saying, I’m looking forward. Next year’s your 10th anniversary,

[00:12:50.74] spk_2:
you got

[00:13:19.02] spk_1:
way. I believe it because let’s just say this has been a labor of love and our own pocketbooks, Okay, because, um, this is not, Let’s just say this is amount of money making enterprise, but it is just there so much challenge in our community. And a lot of the media only reports what’s wrong with us. And as a social scientists and activists, I committed myself focusing on what’s right with us. So look over a week, and that’s what philanthropy is. And I forgot to mention you ask, how much for African Americans is at least $12 billion a year? Okay. And some people count the Remittances of African immigrants

[00:13:40.02] spk_0:
right going

[00:14:08.64] spk_1:
because a good portion of those gold to build schools and for healthcare scholarships, and so that’s $11 billion. Just so we’re talking about just the us $23 billion nobody has a true global number. That would be a great research project. I’m working on a proposal for it. I hope somebody funds it because you really do need to know globally, how much by country and then on aggregate global level is black black giving

[00:14:14.74] spk_0:
later. How about the summit that kicks off Philanthropy Month, August 1st black giving and beyond Virtual summit? Tell us,

[00:14:23.48] spk_2:
Yeah, we’re thrilled about it. It was Jackie’s brainchild that she shared with me and Tracy, I think, late last year, and we’ve been building on it again. It was before the pandemic before the outcries against racial injustice, but it seems right on time. So the idea is to host a global virtual convening on a high tech event platform that invites participation from all across the world. And we have, ah, really stellar lineup of speakers and Panelists, and discussions will focus on how we can aggregate funding and resource is in capital to help in the recovery and rebuilding of black communities. In the wake of these twin pandemics. As Jackie often says, any black racism and Corona virus

[00:15:21.78] spk_0:
info info on all this is that black philanthropy month dot com, right?

[00:17:06.79] spk_1:
Yes. Please. Thank you. We want to commercial. We want people to people to go to black philanthropy month dot com Learn about this summit and register and under build on what violator was saying We’re trying very. We missed being able to come together in person. I mean, I think that is one of the most difficult aspects of this whole Corona virus period. So we’re trying our best to simulate a, um a real life in person conference environment with this platform there. Four days August 1st is to kick off with Soledad O Brien Bakari Sellers, Benjamin jealous and a activist on racism and technology named Joy Belluomini. Um and then all his fourth and fifth are in Africa. We have the Kim Daymo Trumbo as a keynote speaker, along with a very prominent philanthropist named I Show Mohammed or you’re both day. Ah, and then we are having on August 29th a women’s rally and that will be headlined by some of the top women leaders of philanthropy. Like most communities, black women do a lot of the heavy lifting for giving funding, care giving, and let’s just say we’re under some really special stresses in this Corona virus period and with this severe economic downturn has got 20% at least 20% black unemployment, 40% of our small businesses, clothes closing and 1/3 of all Corona viruses. The virus deaths in the US are black on a lot of that

[00:17:10.90] spk_0:
is proportionate again.

[00:17:32.21] spk_1:
Yeah, a lot of that care giving and community giving falls on us. So we’re trying to also revive our ideas in our spirits through this entire summit. Siris for four events Let’s let’s talk

[00:18:03.91] spk_0:
some about some of the racial inequities around around broader philanthropy. I know black flan. Three month is devoted toe elevating black philanthropists and funders and investors. But I want to go a little broader and talk about some of those inequities in philanthropy generally. And, of course, you know, tie it to the the conversation that we’re all having about systemic, institutionalized racism. What’s the, well, the later listed contento? Later for Okay, please.

[00:18:52.34] spk_2:
Yes, The data says that roughly 2% of ah foundation funding from the country’s largest funders go directly to black led organizations and black communities, which is, you know, really shocking figure when I first learned of that. And so that is evidence of the chronic underfunding and also some of the racial bias that exists. The conscious and unconscious bias that exists in the philanthropic realm and black philanthropy Months and discussions at the summit are all centered around, uh, making things right and more equitable, and just in the philanthropic and just general funding round. So,

[00:18:53.18] spk_0:
Jackie, what’s the what’s the role then of black philanthropists and and funders, et cetera, In bringing about that change,

[00:20:58.39] spk_1:
right? Well, I want to note that the reason the summit is called black giving and beyond is we realize that there are Eddies and equities that we have to talk about our own philanthropy, our own giving his black people. But we also have to talk about the responsibility of institutional philanthropy to our community and address some of these longstanding disparities are delivering. In 19 eighties, when we were when I first started, we grabbing the same conversations. It is like deja vu all over again, cause it hasn’t gotten that much better. And so, um, philanthropy is a key piece of it, but with the figures, I just shared with you around Really, the decimation of black communities in this cove it era is going to take more than fully. And the truth is, when we look at social investment and venture funding, we get about 1% of those funds as well. So there is just there’s a problem with private sector funding toe black communities, whether we’re looking at philanthropy or business funding, and our nonprofits and our businesses have to be strong to rebuild what we’ve lost. Win had it much anyway, and we’ve lost so much just in the recession has just gotten started that this summit is inviting philanthropists. Community and institutional toe have this question discussion about equity, but also VC funders and social investors. And so, in fact, every session we have tried to have health care expert who can talk about the impact of Corona virus, but also institutional or community philanthropy and activist as well as a V, C or social investment funder. And so our model, our hashtag we have a couple of them. We call ourselves the Fund Black Summit. That’s our nickname and black funding matters. And in that statement is not just philanthropy. Of course, that’s that’s what’s driving us. It’s part of our culture. But our for Ray into the social justice movement, our current racial equity movement is to say, Look, there’s a serious problem with funding overall, what are we going to do about it?

[00:21:30.43] spk_0:
And so you need to be talking and not just you. We all need to be talking beyond the black philanthropy and funding and investing community. I mean, you do

[00:21:35.55] spk_1:
you want me? Oh,

[00:21:54.64] spk_0:
you won’t be talking more much more broadly because every $3 billion is sizable, although, you know, roughly half of that is leaving the U. S. We have is valuable, which has its as its place. But but roughly only half is staying here. And in the big scheme of of giving, you know, that’s a that’s a small amount. So

[00:22:58.79] spk_1:
in the big scheme of get funding, we’re talking trillions when you air in. I’m venture funding and you add in social investment. And so we really are talking about how do black folks get fair Access to the capital doesn’t necessary to sustain any people or community. And so it’s an economic justice summit as well, and we hope that the practical outcome and belated alluded to this is the’s on just fund black new black funding principles that include philanthropy but moved beyond it to ask the hard questions of veces Why do you have why is it OK to funding young man who dropped out of college and had a good idea but has no track record? Give him millions and millions of dollars and dope hold him accountable for it. But then you can have Ivy League educated black business leaders who have created a profit proven themselves, and they have to jump through all kinds of hoops because of this hoops on

[00:23:06.14] spk_2:
fire at that.

[00:23:48.44] spk_1:
Now this implicit bias you have around how women can’t do certain kind of business or how you know black people aren’t good with numbers, even though people aren’t doing that on purpose. That that’s what implant implicit bias is sure, Um, and it really has an impact in our communities. Folks in Minneapolis, we’re saying we don’t own anything. We can’t own it. We can’t own our businesses. We can’t on the house because of the price of living. When you have a whole group of people who feel like they have no stake in the future of the community and the country cause they can’t get fairness is back for democracies. That’s what we’re partly up to. Yeah, later you have Valetta Door has something to add to that

[00:24:36.91] spk_0:
I was gonna go. I was going to say bad. It’s devastating way We were nowhere near realising our full potential as a country where, what 1/4 of the population is It has just been victim to institutionalized structures, processes racism times Well, 400 years if you want. But certainly I’m thinking even just of more modern times. But, you know, of course, the tragedy goes back. 401 years were nowhere nowhere near reaching our potential as a country. When when that kind of that kind of proportion of the population is not ableto not able to achieve what the other 75% can. Yeah.

[00:25:46.04] spk_1:
Yeah, And I think that George Floyd video as tragic as it is and I still haven’t seen it because I don’t have the emotional I can’t really say I will not see it because I know it. I live in I can’t see it and continue to focus um but I’m glad the world saw it. And it was a very, very brave young woman. Darnell afraid her in Minneapolis recorded it because I think it was a wake up call for the country on the planet. Look, something is seriously wrong. We can’t just keep our heads in the sand and say that, you know, we’re often told. Well, you got a chip on your shoulder. That was the old days. The civil rights movement has come. You have overcome. But that could have been that could have been President Obama. I hate to say it. It could have been any black man or woman with the U. S. Who was subject to that kind of treatment that our education levels are. Achievement are meritocracy does not protect us or give us equal. It’s all off my soapbox. But you asked.

[00:25:48.77] spk_0:
All right, put Europe. Now I put you up there. I want to hear it. Yeah,

[00:27:26.64] spk_2:
Particular points I wanted to add about the summit specifically is one point we always like to make. While liberation is not free, the summit is so it is open to the public and free to register. I’d also like to emphasize the global aspects of it. As Jackie mentioned, It’s a summit series that kicks off, kicks off on August 1st and continues on the 4th 5th and 29th. And I think, um, you referenced 16 19 and the 400 now 104 101 years of documented black life in America. And the fact that this summit is inviting a global conversation I think is significant, particularly at at a time when black people all over the world are recognizing. Or, uh, I guess that we know. But their headlines and media stories from China to Europe to, you know, here in the States and Brazil about anti black racism and the disparities in health and economics that exists. And so we all recognize our connections wherever we are. And there’s also the fact that, um, kind of the the year of the return that 2019 marked for many of us. Many, like people and families, return to Africa to connect to their roots. Um, ancestry dot com and other DNA testing companies have made popular people finding their roots and tracing it back to Africa and being curious and interested in reconnecting with communities there. So the fact that this year’s BPM has ah, very specific global focus and invitation is a significant variety ways. And so we’re excited about that.

[00:29:34.11] spk_1:
Yeah, I will say that the black I asked for was always involved in part because of those Minneapolis roots there were when Minneapolis had, at the time, the largest populations of Liberians and Somalis and Kenyans in the U. S. And they were. It’s still our cause. That coalition is still alive and, well, part of this coalition of women. Um, that put on the first summit. Okay, but now actually having an Africa base, especially for like, for me as an African nous anthropologists focusing on Africa and a diaspora it’s sort of our track into the global economy as well. Global economy. Israel You can’t just focus on your backyard. We all have to figure out how to collaborate across borders is just and do business. And so it is really, um, an act of also, um, not just solidarity for practical economic empowerment. We’re asking the question. How could we support each other’s issues? No matter where you go, black women tend to have the highest rates of maternal mortality in their communities. And that’s triple in Africa that strictly Europe. That’s true in the U. S. S. So there are these global questions about our future, and we can Onley come up with the answers is if we’re collaborating across the lines of national origin, ethnicity, religion, and we define ourselves in many ways, just like Asian or Jewish people. There’s a lot of diversity within. Diversity is beautiful to bring it all together in this summit experience.

[00:30:13.70] spk_0:
Are we gonna leave it there then? All right, that’s beautiful. Wrap up Black Philanthropy Month Black Philanthropy month dot com kicks off August 1st we all well, we all are wanted to participate. We all are sought after so black philanthropy dot com We didn’t say it, but I’ll just shout out quick. The theme for this year’s Black Flam three month is Foresight 2020 which is cool. That’s very good. Thank you very much. Jackie. Jackie Copeland. You’ll find her at the Wise Fund dot or GE and at Jackie, Be Copeland and later Fulwood Valetta dot com. And at Valetta F Jackie Valetta. Thank you very much.

[00:30:21.39] spk_1:
You can tony and later

[00:32:36.04] spk_0:
we need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software. Their accounting product Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant non. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two. I’m very proud to announce the launch of planned giving accelerator. This is a yearlong membership community where I am going to teach you everything I know about how to start and build your planned giving program. Just like this show. It’s designed for small and mid sized nonprofits. I’m gonna produce an exclusive podcast for members. Exclusive. Webinars. We’ll have asked me anything Sessions on Zoom in small groups. There’s gonna be a Facebook community that’s private. Just for members will have all kinds of resource is checklists, templates, everything you need, and I’ll share everything I know on how to start your planned giving program. It’s planned giving accelerator go to planned giving accelerator dot com. You’ll find all the info there. That’s where you sign up to join the membership. Our yearlong membership community. I hope you’ll join me if you don’t have a plan to giving program. This is the time to get started. You’ll pay a lot less for a full year. Then you’d pay to work with me directly in just a month. Everything you need is that planned giving accelerator dot com that is Tony’s Take two Now. Time for collaborations. Mou to merger It’s my pleasure to welcome back Jean Takagi. It

[00:32:38.49] spk_1:
always is. You know

[00:33:00.14] spk_0:
him. He’s our legal contributor and managing attorney of Neo, the non profit and Exempt Organizations Law group in San Francisco. He edits the wildly popular non profit law blogged dot com, and is the American Bar Association’s 2016 outstanding non profit lawyer. He’s a part time lecturer at Columbia University. The firm is that neo law group dot com, and he’s at G Attack. Welcome back to the show, Gene. Always a pleasure to see you.

[00:33:07.84] spk_3:
Thanks so much. Great to see G tony

[00:33:10.02] spk_0:
doing okay out in California. So

[00:33:11.80] spk_3:
I am thinking Okay. Um how about how about you?

[00:33:15.04] spk_0:
Yes. The beach on the ocean are still across the street from me, so I mean,

[00:33:19.09] spk_3:
that’s fantastic. Very angry.

[00:33:26.34] spk_0:
I wake up every day with a notion across the street. And how bad can it be? Thank you. Yeah, I’m doing fine too. Thanks.

[00:33:29.64] spk_1:
So we’re talking

[00:33:58.99] spk_0:
about, um, you know, joining forces on and there’s Ah, there’s a broad spectrum of possibilities that this can take on, but without getting too technical on before we get to some of the summit of possibilities, you’re seeing an uptick in your practice and research is showing their stats. They’re showing their arm or not profits considering or exploring some kind of collaboration. You know what’s going on? What are you seeing?

[00:35:42.54] spk_3:
Yeah, and, um, I appreciate kind of being able to tell you that I’m doing well, but I know that there are a lot of people out there that are going through some pretty tough times right now, and there are a lot of organizations that are going through some very tough times, and that’s definitely not restricted the for profit sector. It’s hitting the nonprofit sector very hard right now as well. On top of that, the demand for many non profit service’s are higher than ever, as a lot of people are struggling through these times, so, yeah, non profits are getting hit hard on the revenue side. They’re getting hit hard because of the man, for their service is on their limited ability to deliver them with all of our shelter and place orders. So, through all of that, um, you know, there have been some conjecture that that many, many nonprofits are not going to survive. Over the next year on, we’ll see the loss of many nonprofits. And there’s this desire that many of these nonprofits air serving communities that are not getting the attention that they might from larger, stronger, financially organizations it might go under the radar and looking to see how their programs and what they’re trying to do is going to fit in. And in this time, where we’re also seeing this huge movement towards greater equity, racial equity, social justice, picking up these small nonprofits and their programs, and saving them so that the beneficiaries who are most impacted by the pandemic and all of the associate ID bad things that happened around it has become important. So nonprofits were struggling looking to save programs may be looking for some sort of collaborative partner to help them through and some of the bigger funders and bigger organizations are saying yes, we want to do more of these severely impacted communities that we’re not reaching as much as you know, some of these smaller organizations are. We want to collaborate with them and keep those service is alive.

[00:36:28.23] spk_0:
So if if we feel like we’re in that boat, uh, I mean, I guess it could be either were way. You feel particularly, um, strong in our community, or we feel like we’re at risk and vulnerable in our community. Um, where would we start this? Where would we start the possible collaboration conversation? We said we start internally. I’m sure what? What we need to be talking about among our C suite and are board.

[00:37:59.43] spk_3:
Yeah, it’s a great question. And hopefully there’s a sense or ready with some organizations that you do know your allies in the space. They may not exactly overlap with you. Probably they shouldn’t, you know, for reasons of competition. But you generally know who your allies are, and I’m marrying you. Want to call collaboration? If you want toe equated to a marriage in some form, you don’t want to marry a total stranger. There’s, um, a huge risk to that. But if you do know some organizations out there that are allied with you, um um, or if you go to your community foundations if you kind of know about them but don’t really haven’t inside sort of a deeper relationship with with some of their key stakeholders and board members and C suite officers getting introductions from community foundations from large funders who being be funding multiple organizations in the same area. That’s kind of how how I would start to get started. Teoh first have the executives start to just talk about it in general, hopefully from a position not like a urgent panic, Um, but from a position of well, let’s see how we can best serve our communities that we’re both trying to do well it and do it in the best way possible.

[00:38:53.57] spk_0:
I read an article that you suggested, written in response to ah question that was submitted by a museum that was on the stronger side in the community and wanted to open conversations but didn’t want to appear predatory. And as I said, you know, there are there are a lot of ways to work together short of merger. There are different, just sort of service agreements and mutual understandings could be a contract or that’s legally enforceable or not. But there are a lot of different ways to work together. So at this early stage, you’re just asking or inviting. No, we all know that we’re struggling. Would you be open to, ah, a conversation about how we might work together, how we might collaborate to serve the community in this, you know, increased time of need.

[00:39:17.03] spk_3:
I think that’s exactly right, tony. And the greater emphasis that you could put on your common missions and forget about, at least in the initial discussions, forget about, like, power dynamics and all of that. But just go in two people talking about their organizations and what they’re trying to do to strengthen their communities and say, What are we trying to do? Where are risks to those communities? How is our missions are common mission at risk? And what can we do? The best address that as we’re facing these unprecedented forces right now, um that are really hurting on the communities were trying to serve and could eventually you’re gonna enter into the discussion that it could, you know, possibly, uh, cause a cut in service is or possibly three eventual shutdown of a program or a worst case, the dissolution of an organization. And I wouldn’t lead with that. But that’s something that that both parties want to be transparent about as they continue their discussions.

[00:40:58.51] spk_0:
Right, Right. But initially, you’re just exploring. That’s right. We’re not talking about shutting down here program or us shutting down hours. We’re sharing about where we’re struggling and where we’re succeeding. Know some organizations are doing well in fundraising in the midst of this triple crisis dream, healthcare, racial equity and and recession and others are not. So you’re just that the exploration stage, I guess, is what I’m is what I’m saying and then going beyond that is that when you would start to draw your board in? You know, I’ve had a couple of conversations with the CEO over at whatever agency we’ve been exploring some some ways that we might be able to help each other. You know, is that the stage you would start to bring this conversation to your board?

[00:41:27.81] spk_3:
Yeah, it depends upon or soon, yeah, it depends upon the board that you have. So it might be bringing in the board chair if that person is particularly strong, um, in their leadership on maybe is well connected if you have some board members who are who can take that role without necessarily bringing the full board in,

[00:41:35.88] spk_0:
right. Oh, I’m sorry. I just meant when I said bring the board and I meant make him privy to your conversations. Yeah, bring them to meetings with the other agency.

[00:42:35.97] spk_3:
Yeah, even even in the conversations before you bring it out to the full board. Because sometimes confidentiality is hard, especially with larger boards. You may want to keep it to a smaller group until you feel like you’ve got something serious. Um, so sometime I was blowing confidentiality because you shirt with too many people off the coffee meeting, Yeah, can kill the whole deal. So just to be careful about, then it depends upon your board. If you have a board of three people, you’re probably best to shirt with the whole three board members right away and make sure that they’re going to keep it confidential. If you have a board of 25 people, maybe not sure with them your first conversation, but take it to the board chair executive committee level. I feel like if there’s something there, then bring it to the board. It’s The board will come in early. But after maybe a couple conversations

[00:43:52.25] spk_0:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships, the world runs on them. We know this turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help when you need to be heard, so that people you know so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got, but loads more time for collaborations. MoU to merger You have an excellent post at non profit law block dot com that lists a lot of different possible alliances from the least least legally in encumbering, I guess, which is the MOU, or memo of Understanding through merger, which is a total sacrifice of independence on the part of one non profit in favor of another. Um, so there’s a there’s a broad spectrum of possibilities, and at this exploratory stage, we’re not No, we don’t have anything particular in mind. We’re just trying to find out how we might be able help each other.

[00:44:02.89] spk_3:
I think that’s right, tony in and for people to just make it a black and white decision of like, whether we merger, we don’t merge. That’s you know that’s just too serious, that that’s like proposing marriage on your first date,

[00:44:35.89] spk_0:
right? Right. That’s a mistake, and it’ll scare somebody away. It might scare both parties merger, and neither one of us are ready for that. But there’s a lot of possibility. So, um, I let’s see, How can we find this article at non profit law block dot com, the one that lays out all the different methods of aligning?

[00:44:38.74] spk_3:
I I think, non profit collaborations, structural options. And so if you go onto the non profit la blogged dot com, there’s a search far. If you hit non profit collaborations, you’ll find it.

[00:45:08.19] spk_0:
Okay. Excellent. Thank you. Okay, I’m now. Okay. So now let’s say we have furthered our conversations and we see some possibility, but we don’t know what structure to take. How do we how to read procedure? Help us out?

[00:48:05.87] spk_3:
So e think you’re really aiming to see exactly what you want to do, what each party wants to do and where your meeting in common. So if there’s this idea that we want to work together, but we don’t know each other very well, Um, let’s see what we can do. That might be kind of the non binding MOU, the sort of the least amount of commitment made by either organization on that spectrum of collaborations. Um, so you know, we don’t know each other yet. Let’s get to know each other a little bit better. Let’s see if we work to work on this project together. You do this, I’ll do this on and it be their side fails to do it in the way the other side wants. Nobody gets in trouble. I mean, that’s just your your own thing. If you feel like there’s something more to it and it’s more urgent, it’s like, you know, we’re about to, you know, get to the point where we seriously might have to curtail. Our service is to this group of people. Um, and we know you’re also serving them, but in a slightly different way. Is there something we can do to help strengthen our ability to continue our service of of this group of beneficiaries through some sort of thing that we do collaboratively, you know? Can we do it jointly? Are there any efficiencies that we can have if we coordinate our activities together and in this case, one party might be or both parties might be a little bit dependent upon the other party meeting their obligations because they failed to do it, what the other party could could not be able to do their job either. In that case, maybe a simple sort of contract would be involved. T make sure that we’ve got it binding, that we owe this obligation to each other, um, and will formalize it in a contract. Um, all the way to if we know that this organization may not make it, but we want their programs. Um, and both parties want to say this single program that is essential there might be a transfer, an asset transfer of programs, intellectual property associate with the programs of employees that were working on the programs they might shift toe work for. The new employers of the program is housed in two different entities that would be some sort of asset transfer agreement and merger might be kind of at the very end of that spectrum of where we think it’s in the best interest of both organisations. It might not be that one would go away, but we think that there’s so much synergy. And after really thoughtful discussion and due diligence, we think we’re gonna be more much more powerful in delivering our mission, our common missions together rather than apart.

[00:48:10.33] spk_0:
It sounds like some legal help may be appropriate here if we’re gonna enter into some kind of collaboration with another non profit.

[00:48:59.57] spk_3:
Yeah, I like the idea, and this is a little self serving, because I but I like the idea of Brown wears in early, so you can. They can give you kind of you all of the options menu, if you will. Sometimes merger consultants, which I think are absolutely necessary as well, can come in there, and they may be trying to attain their goal. Eso if their merger consultant very thinking merger kind of because a surgeon think surgery is the response to a health issue. That’s the tool they know for the more experienced consultants who deal with these array of options. You know, if you if you’re sure you have a consultant like that, they’re probably gonna get get you far down the path as well. But the lawyer might be able to just sort of add those little tips on and steer you away from certain traps at the beginning. You don’t have to hire the the lawyer to do kind of full blown due diligence surfaces off day one, Um, but bringing them in early might lead you down the right past.

[00:50:06.66] spk_0:
There’s some psychosocial aspects to this to, like, ego and trust. We’re we’re gonna have to put aside our ego if we’re going to, if be willing to admit that we can’t continue on our own, um, and trust, you know, even if even the most stringent contract still requires trust between between the parties because no, no contract can envision everything. And if there isn’t trust going into a contract, I think you’re I think you’re doomed even with one that’s well written. So there’s some interpersonal aspects to this do

[00:50:43.06] spk_3:
absolutely, um, and trust. But to the extent you can verify, so make sure you know the individuals that you’re putting trust in, You know, when coffee meeting is great, but you’re gonna want to know that person more. You’re gonna want to know what their culture is more since culture is going to be really important in any kind of collaboration, whether there’s a culture fit if you don’t know, you know who the people are on the other side that are suddenly gonna be working together with your organization’s people. Um, that that could be a huge risk factor that you have to know how, how this is going to blend together

[00:51:08.40] spk_0:
so that if you do have the luxury of time, neither neither non profit is failing and in crisis. Then, you know, basically your advice was, hold hands before you get married, take things slowly, and then maybe you can expand the collaboration as you see whether the cultures match whether the objectives are being met. Are we actually delivering better service is or more service is Have we saved money? So, you know, have some of these goals been met cause a lot of times they’re not.

[00:51:44.66] spk_3:
I like that, tony. And so when organizations are operating both in a position of strength, even if one is bigger and what color that works out really nicely. So you can you can hold hands and get closer before you finally decide what ultimate step you want to take together. Um, so that’s what I prefer. I know, especially in these times, that may not be the reality for many organizations.

[00:51:50.56] spk_0:
What do you want to alert listeners to around this topic? Gene,

[00:51:56.86] spk_2:
I think one

[00:53:20.05] spk_3:
thing is not to be scared and not to get lost in not only your personal ego, which may mean for some people. Well, if we merge, I’m not gonna be a board member anymore because they’re the existing or surviving organization, has a board, and maybe they’re willing to take on a couple of us from the smaller organization. Um, but I’m I may not be part of that, but I’m not gonna let that drive my decision as to whether to merge or not. Because that’s now That would be about me, not about, you know, the organization and its mission. Um, the same thing goes with the name. So you know, often times people are, you know, deals get killed and mergers because the smaller organization or the disappearing organization is not willing to let go of the name. Um, And, yes, you could negotiate around naming. Keeping your name is a program and having some sort of of recognition on the website of the merged entity. But some people are so locked in on it, they’ll fight tooth and nail to make sure that their name is standing out as, like, part of the same merged entity’s name. So they combine both names, and it’s really clunky, and it just doesn’t really make sense. But, um, people get lost in that and start to make it a power play of, like, who could negotiate and exercise the most power in this transaction rather than what is in the best interests of our mission on both short term and long term.

[00:53:41.35] spk_0:
Okay. And again, merger, of course, being the extreme possibility for for collaboration. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um, if you feel comfortable, we can leave it there. Gene, You all right?

[00:53:44.77] spk_3:
Yeah, I’m good. I’m good.

[00:53:47.95] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Jean Takagi, find him in, uh, neo law group dot com and at G Tack and Gene talk to you in a couple weeks for the 500 show.

[00:53:56.36] spk_3:
I’m so excited for you.

[00:53:57.90] spk_0:
Thank you. Back cheese did. Thank you very much, Jeanne. So long.

[00:54:02.24] spk_3:
Okay, but

[00:55:34.44] spk_0:
next week, non profit radios. 5/100 show. It’s our 5/100 show and 10th anniversary. Live music, Lots of guests and giveaways. Send me your story. How did you get into non profit work? Hardly anyone chooses this as a career. How did you get in? Well, read the top three stories on the air. You’ll be preserved forever in our 500 show, and you’ll win a bag of Cure a coffee. Be with me next week for the 5/100 non profit radio. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant her mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz managing stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our red guy on this Music is by Scots with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Special Episode: Nonprofits & CARES Act

I love our sponsors!

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Cougar Mountain Software: Denali Fund is their complete accounting solution, made for nonprofits. Claim your free 60-day trial.

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guest:

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi: Nonprofits & CARES Act
The CARES Act was passed late last week. We’re recording on Friday, April 3rd. There are benefits in the Act that nonprofits can take advantage of. Benefits for your org and your staff. And they’re pretty good. So you may want to apply. Plus, longer term relief for nonprofit fundraising. Gene Takagi explains it all. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

 

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Cougar Mountain Software logo
View Full Transcript
Transcript for 483a_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200404.mp3

Processed on: 2020-04-03T22:13:33.262Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2020…04…483a_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200404.mp3.100988344.json
Path to text: transcripts/2020/04/483a_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200404.txt

[00:01:07.49] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. This is a special short episode of non profit radio to meet the needs of nonprofits during the Corona virus pandemic. This is our fourth special episode. Non Profits and Cares Act. The Cares Act was passed late last week. We’re recording on Friday, April 3rd. There are benefits in the act that nonprofits can’t take advantage of benefits for your organ and your staff, and they’re pretty good, so you may want to apply. Plus, there’s longer term relief for nonprofits. Non profit fundraising. Jean Takagi explains it all. He’s our legal contributor and principle of neo the non profit and exempt organizations Law Group Jean Welcome. How are you?

[00:01:09.60] spk_0:
I’m doing well. Thank you very much, tony, for allowing me to share information with your with your audience.

[00:01:15.42] spk_3:
Oh, it’s my pleasure. I know you’ve been ah, believing it is my pleasure. You’ve been busy all week talking about the Cares Act, I’m sure.

[00:01:26.18] spk_0:
Definitely everybody interested in in, uh, how nonprofits can take advantage and really thankful that there’s some advocacy groups out there that got nonprofits considered in these in these Lost?

[00:02:11.24] spk_3:
Yeah, for sure. Explicitly in in some cases. So all your work this week has led you to this to this pinnacle non profit radio. So it’s all led up to here. So thank you for all that preparation that you’ve been doing toe to talk to our listeners. Um, is it is it best if we, uh, you want to start with an overview? I mean, I definitely want to get into the paycheck protection program and the economic injury disaster loans. Do you want to start a broader than that before we get in that specific? Well,

[00:02:51.14] spk_0:
I’ll just mention that the Cares act is this $2.2 billion package. And, um, when provisions were put in for small businesses, it was really important. Thio note that nonprofits are out there who are also employers who are also desperate for assistance at this time. And thio have non profits put into provisions like the payroll protection program are really important. But this is, um, just part of the legislation that’s come down since the Corona virus pandemic has hit us and and our federal government has started paying attention to what needs our country’s having great now desperate needs in many cases. And there was a set of laws called the Families First Corona Virus Response Act. That duck with leaves a swell paid leaves by employees. And so that’s another component that I hope we get a chance to talk about in addition to the care, Zach.

[00:03:19.34] spk_3:
Okay, Um, all right, so why don’t we? Why don’t we take care of that? What’s the what’s the the leave? The leave provisions? So the

[00:04:46.65] spk_0:
leave provisions in basically apply to again small businesses, including non profits with less than 500 employees and provided for two weeks of emergency paid sick leave. Now, sick leave isn’t required to be federally from under federal law to be. I hate it. In many cases, some states do require it. But here is a federal law ah, that required now all small employers, including non profits, to provide two weeks of emergency paid sick leave. Now there are some exceptions that might be possible for employers that had less than 50 employees for undue hardship, Um, for really, really small organizations where that’s just not at all possible that that is a standard that they might be able to to meet. But generally this applies to everyone, and the amount of paid sick leave is at the employees regular rate up to $511 per day. So it’s captain a 10 days or 5100 and $10. Okay, um, and if it is to take care of ah, child or, you know because of the child is is the one who’s sick or the child is, uh, needs child care because their schools of clothes because of quarantine rules, then the amount would be the employees regular rate up to $200 per day. So not the full 511. But it would be. Actually, I’m sorry. The employers rate times 2/3 that 2/3 of the employers rate or a captain $200 per day for that 10 days. So that’s the first section required. Paid sickly.

[00:05:05.28] spk_3:
Okay, where can we find this in writing somewhere? So because that’s a lot to digest. Yeah, it’s See this on the web.

[00:05:36.24] spk_0:
So if you just Google families first Corona Virus Response Act, um, the National Council of non profit actually had a good site on that. So that maybe a place to look Okay, Cool. Uh, the other leave that they have is a 12 week of emergency family and medical leave, and basically it’s a 10 week add on to the two weeks that you originally had. But this is only for care of family members again. Child care. If there’s a sick child due to the Corona virus or their school got quarantined, and child care is required to be provided

[00:05:50.87] spk_3:
that it is not to be child care, could it be care of someone else in the family who’s not a child?

[00:05:56.64] spk_0:
It could be another dependent. I believe that that’s Ah provided a family member

[00:06:02.02] spk_3:
dependent. Okay, but that wouldn’t be a parent then, unless the parent was independent.

[00:06:38.48] spk_0:
I don’t know that that currents are included will have to wait to see if, if the regulation spell that out become. And that’s an additional 10 weeks and again to the to the 12 weeks that sorry to the two weeks that that’s in the original act. And that’s a 2/3 of each employee’s usual pay up to $200 per day. Now, this is a huge burden on employers, right? All of a sudden, if they hadn’t been required to pay leave before now they’re required to pay leave. And obviously, a lot of employers are gonna be cash strapped now if their businesses have closed and things so the these air not available if the workplace is completely closed down. Um, and the other thing to know that employers can recoup these costs through a payroll tax credit. So details kind of in the regulations or in some of the sites, including the National Council of non profit sites I mentioned. But employers can recoup these costs. Employees are getting paid sick leave under these provisions. So that was one of the immediate loss that came out

[00:07:10.84] spk_3:
when you say the workplace must be closed. You mean the organization Shut down. You don’t mean the office closed, do you? Or do you?

[00:07:18.60] spk_0:
If the office is closed and the employees are unable to perform their jobs from home, so if

[00:07:38.18] spk_3:
and unable to be able to work from home Oh, correct. Okay. Okay. Because of the caregiving that they’re providing a correct. All right. Um, can we go to the to the S B a loans. Okay. Is that right?

[00:07:41.24] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s that’s one. Probably critical.

[00:08:42.84] spk_3:
Okay, Yes. I want to make sure we exhausted the other. The other information that you had, I want to say just to get started. The S B a site s b a dot gov is very, very simple. I think I was able to understand it, Um s p a dot gov and then you’ll be looking at this basketball size picture of a Corona virus. You can’t possibly miss it on the site, and you just click in there and to learn more. And then you just scroll right down to Corona virus funding options. And then, ah, Pedro opens up with, ah, lot of what we will. Well, it’ll be. It’ll cover what? Gene and I are about to talk about the paycheck protection program. The e i D. L. Which is the economic interest, Economic injury, disaster loan. And then there’s a couple of others too, so it’s really very, very helpful, I think thea CSB a site s p a dot gov um Shall we start with the paycheck protection program gene that that’s also only for employers of 500 or fewer right employees.

[00:09:31.68] spk_0:
Yeah, fewer than 500 employees, including non profit. So really a big point to add that nonprofits are eligible for this. Ah, and agreed that this is an important provision. $349 billion was dedicated towards this. And on the date that we’re recording this tony is the first day that the application theoretically was released. Um, but these loans are available by S from S P a lender’s ah, that would include most F d I C insured banks. But not all of these institutions are ready to implement this, even though the application theoretically came out today. And one of the concerns that everybody is having on day one is that the regulations just came out as an interim rule last night.

[00:09:47.06] spk_3:
Yeah, so that just right, Just Thursday, just last night, something came out. Yeah,

[00:11:04.31] spk_0:
And while the application and and the SP a site makes it look easy, there are a lot of unanswered questions or ambiguities, and that is making with lenders have have a problem. Ah t implement this. Some people are guessing all of the loans are going to run out on day one because $349 billion. Sounds like a lot. But if you say every small business in the country is eligible thio to take this in every small amount profit, there’s only so much that that money is going to last. And there’s a question about whether the lenders are going to prefer their own clients. So their existing clients that have loans with the organizations are they gonna prefer the larger clients because they value their business, for which, you know their banks are going to reach some sort of reward over time. Are they gonna value them ahead? Was a small non profit that’s coming in? So my best advice is to try to go in to your own bank, find out if they are an SP a lender, uh, and make your case to them as quickly as possible. I don’t know that everything will be depleted on day one. I’m That might be the worst case scenario, I believe while Spargo Bank has not started yet because of issues with implementation, So there are there are going to be problems getting this rolling, but once it rolls, the money’s not gonna last very long. So I would say to the extent you can I get your paperwork together very quickly. The SP A site lets you know kind of what type of paperwork is required for this, and there’s not a lot. It’s not like a traditional known as well, tony. I guess that’s maybe the first thing I

[00:11:40.04] spk_3:
should be relaxed some of the some of the requirements and they’ve really streamlined the the application, especially for this. I know for myself, Um, well, we’ll get to the economic injury loan. But just from one day to the next the economic injury loan, the application went from like four different forms you had to fill out last Sunday night to Monday when it was just streamlined, like two or three. It was like there was three screens. You just had a pick selections and make a bunch of certifications, and you were done and it was much more burdensome just the day before.

[00:12:15.34] spk_0:
Yeah, and these things have been changing on the Fly, the paycheck protection program. In the best scenario about this, that nonprofits need to know which. Maybe I shouldn’t have hidden the ball, hit

[00:12:28.73] spk_3:
the ball, start figuring it out. That’s okay,

[00:12:31.40] spk_6:
is

[00:12:32.64] spk_0:
why it’s so great. If you can access, it is it’s alone. That’s forgivable. Meaning that it’s essentially a grant s. Oh, it’s a loan that you’re going to make. And then if you keep up your payroll force, um, you pretty much get to recoup all of it back. And that’s a huge thing, right? To be able to keep your work staff on so that that’s the big point.

[00:13:23.89] spk_3:
And the details of that are in the, uh, in that on that s B a site that I, uh that I that I was suggesting people go to says, You know, you’re if you haven’t kept everybody, you have to rehire everybody, I think, by June 20th or June 30th of this year. But the details are on the SP, a site. It’s really it’s in plain language. It’s really pretty simple to understand what you’re committing to. But even if you know, even if you’re not able to keep up your workforce on and not have it converted to a grant, at least it is. It’s a very favorable

[00:13:32.34] spk_7:
Hello,

[00:13:33.34] spk_0:
right? It’s 0.5% less than 1/2 a percent

[00:13:38.53] spk_3:
and deferred interest is deferred for the 1st 6 months.

[00:13:41.41] spk_0:
Correct? And do on a two years. Right now, though, they’re very likely could be an extension. And we may see variations of this and hopefully, more appropriations of more money. Should they run out of this amount. I I’m pretty sure the federal government knows that this is still phase one. Ah, and they’re going to be additional phases necessary on an individual level as well as on on entity level.

[00:14:15.84] spk_3:
Yeah, yeah. Um, all right. Anything more you want to add about Thea about the PPP, The paycheck protection program

[00:14:55.84] spk_0:
show? Sure. So let’s talk about what it what it what the loan is for Andi. That’s exactly what it refers to payroll to paying your payroll. But it also includes utilities interest on your mortgage, not the principal on your mortgage, but interest on your mortgage, uh, and rent. So you and utility so some some occupancy costs and employee costs. And generally the amount of the loan is going to be determined by 2.5 months, essentially 2.5 times the average totally monthly payroll costs based on ah, one year. I’m sorry. Based on the last year. A test period, right that times a 2.5 times monthly payroll costs. That’s something Thio think about as being a huge, huge help at this time.

[00:15:24.31] spk_3:
That’s that’s 10 weeks worth of payroll, plus those of expenses that you mentioned interest on mortgages, utilities, et cetera, And

[00:17:39.70] spk_0:
no collateral. No personal guarantee is not like other S b A loan. So, um, a CZ, long as you’re under 500 employees there, few other qualifications, some of them I’m not so happy about that. You know, if you if you’ve got a criminal record or anything yeah, an indictment, you don’t qualify for it. Um, not not even a conviction there, Justin Indictment. So it’s It’s interesting formulas that would come up with that. I’m sure there was, ah lot of haggling on the floor to get something up quickly, but that’s what we have that there are a lot of details in this one area of confusion that I mentioned tony in BET That’s maybe creating a little bit of headaches for for banks and lenders and also for organizations that are trying to share information about this, including May is what about independent contractor costs. So we talked about payroll and payroll. You know, from a legal accounting standpoint, we’re talking about employees, right? But what if what about the non profits that are paying people? Is independent contractors Ah, and my understanding. And based on the interim rule that came out last night from the S B A. That payroll costs do not include independent contractor costs. Although I’m seeing conflicting information from independent sector and the Council of Now, not the National Council of Nonprofits right now about that issue and partly because the application refers to do you have employees or independent contractors that are reported as 10 90 nines? That’s what the application says, which would lead you to to think that if you can have either or that there must be some benefit if you have independent contractors that you’re paying as well. But part of my rational, I’m thinking that the SP a interim rule is probably right on this issue is that independent contractors, even sole proprietorships, can apply for this loan forgivable loan program, the payroll protection program themselves, so they don’t have to rely on hiring entity to do it for them. They can apply for it directly. So we’re a little confusion. They’re not absolutely clear. I don’t think any of us can say with 100% that we know the truth. Oh,

[00:18:14.34] spk_3:
so at this stage, are you best leaving independent contractors out of your calculation of payroll for purposes of of the PPP just so that you don’t, you know, muddy up your application with a possible problem that would that would hold it up and then knowing that maybe you can go back when you get further guidance? If you’re If you are using a lot of 10 99 contractors, I think this is gonna

[00:18:15.17] spk_0:
be processed very quickly. And

[00:18:18.14] spk_3:
you think they’re gonna get you think they’re gonna gloss over issues like this in the beginning and very possibly clean up later?

[00:19:01.94] spk_0:
Yeah, very possibly. The problem with including the 10 99 contractors, Maybe Twofold. One is that if they weren’t intended to be included, will the government say that’s not gonna be forgivable? And is your budgeting based on you know, making these considering these grants rather than loans? And it very well could be that if you report independent contractors, they may just say No, this isn’t forgivable. The whole thing is alone. That’s one consideration. I don’t think as nonprofits think about this and end the limited amount of money that’s available. They shouldn’t count on this. They should definitely apply for it as quickly as possible. But they shouldn’t 100% count on it being available for them

[00:19:17.72] spk_3:
available and forgivable and unforgivable. That’s Yeah,

[00:19:21.63] spk_0:
that’s correct. That’s a really important. Okay, point. All

[00:19:56.70] spk_3:
right, balance, balance these things as you’re doing your application. You know, maybe get advice from a board member. Certainly legal counsel, if you have that. But but don’t you know, I don’t think you should let these potential problems hang you up and not not participate yet. Get your application in. You know, you might decide not to include your 10 99 contractors. Maybe that’s a decision you make. But you get it in at least for your for your payroll, your payroll, folks, your employees so that you know you could be covered for 10 weeks of, uh, 10 weeks of payroll. I mean, that’s that’s valuable. You get the get the darn thing in, make a decision and get it in one way or the other.

[00:20:22.40] spk_0:
Yeah, and have all the material available, including your independent contractor, information available. They’re asking for it in the application, so your bank will probably help determine whether that they’ll include that in the loan or not. Just bring it all in. Get your paperwork ready. I know everybody’s inundated with work that’s trying to keep things together. Leaders are, and this is worth the time.

[00:20:27.87] spk_3:
Yeah, is 10 weeks of payroll Yes, it’s

[00:20:30.10] spk_0:
time. It’s huge. So you’ve gotta put other things aside to get this done and get it done as early as possible because

[00:20:37.09] spk_3:
of you. You’re talking about the money. All right,

[00:20:39.48] spk_0:
get it, Get it ready early next week, if you can.

[00:20:56.04] spk_3:
Let’s move to the ER the i d l. You know, I hate jargon wth the economic injury disaster loan. Um, this is this is different. This is this is other types of expenses, Gene. Yeah. So it’s

[00:20:56.83] spk_0:
work. It’s a working capital loans essentially. So it could be used for payroll. But if you can’t apply for both in and put the same use for both, So if you ask for apparel protection program loan, you can also ask for an e idea alone for the same reason. But you could ask for a different reason for working capital in another other business costs that you’re gonna have. Um, and again, this is designed for small businesses and small nonprofits. But there’s only $10 billion that’s allocated here, So it’s a lot less than the other program. Yeah, but go ahead and apply for it as early as possible.

[00:21:45.37] spk_3:
Now, this has a great feature. Ah, $10,000 advance. That’s an advance on the loan. And that could be forgivable, right? And that’s it. Get their inherent

[00:21:52.04] spk_0:
right. Even if you get turned down. If you whether you get accepted or not, the $10,000 is years to keep.

[00:21:55.25] spk_3:
Oh, it’s whether you get turned out. So even if you’re approved for the loan, the $10,000 advance is still forgivable. Is that right?

[00:22:01.45] spk_0:
I I believe it needs not. It does not need to be repaid in either case.

[00:22:49.34] spk_3:
Okay, okay. My understanding of it. And they’re saying that this is gonna hit your bank within 3 to 5 days of your application. Now, I already applied for my business more than three days ago and I haven’t gotten it. Hasn’t been quite been five business days. It’s been four on. I haven’t seen it yet. So don’t Don’t be wedded to the 3 to 5 days it’s gonna cause they do ask for your bank account. They ask for your account number, they ask for your routing number. Um, uh, so they are intending to deposit this $10,000 advance quickly, But you know, you may not get it within the 3 to 5 days, but it is forgivable and and it is an advance on the loan, so it comes fast, and then the loan consideration is a longer term process, right? So

[00:23:38.35] spk_0:
it gets paid without them processing the loan at all. And you just get paid based on the application, which is fantastic, um, and, uh, again really something to take advantage of, but limited funds. So go in as early as possible. It’s great, tony, that you went in very early. People should should do that again early next week, and this is separate from the paycheck protection program. But if you do get accepted for the forgiveness of loan under the first act of paycheck protection Program, that we talked about that $10,000 under this sea idea will be counted against the cap on that. So just just note that you can’t double dip here. Okay? Okay, but the loan interest rate is 2.75%. Ah, and the maximum term is 30 years. It’s gonna be dependent upon your credit worthiness. So it follows more standard procedures and the paycheck protection lung, which again doesn’t matter what your credit is. Doesn’t matter if you have outstanding loans or not. The first, the 1st 1 that we talked about the forgivable loans disciplined

[00:24:03.84] spk_7:
a

[00:24:26.00] spk_3:
little tighter requirements. Lending requirements more more typical than then what? They waved for the payroll protection. Her act. Okay. Okay. Um, anything you want to add about economic injury, Disaster loan? The e i D. L again, it’s all this is all very well. Very clearly laid out. Big pictures on the S B, a dot gov website. Yes.

[00:24:35.48] spk_0:
I guess I’ll just say that it’s available also for debt payment. So your your ongoing business expenses, including debt payment.

[00:25:21.30] spk_3:
Okay. Okay. Um, so we got some longer term relief. Uh, regarding the charitable income tax, the federal charitable income tax deduction that we, uh, you know, in the ER in the tax and, well, I don’t forget the formal name, Tax and Jobs Act. Ah, there was, uh, there was a reduction in the It took away an incentive for non itemizers to make charitable gif ts. And so And we’ve seen some hit there because the vast moon is that the vast majority the majority of people do not itemize their taxes. Uh, but we got some. We got some relief. So the

[00:27:17.08] spk_0:
tax cuts and jobs act from Thank you your job back from a couple of years ago raised the standard deduction, almost doubling it. The impact of that is it left about 8% of the taxpayers itemizers, so it’s a very, very small portion that actually get the benefit of a charitable contribution deduction. Because the charitable contribution deduction is one of the itemized deductions that you get. So more than 90% of taxpayers get no tax benefit for making a charitable contribution deduction until this act until the cars that came into play. Now, this is only a one year provisions, but I’m hope it’s a precursor for a change in the law to allow for a universal deduction so that there’s more equity across every taxpayer for getting some sort of benefit for making a charitable contribution deduction. So now it looks like it’s on Lee applicable to those generally who are a little bit more wealthier than others, that that have the ability to itemize, taxes, their deductions and get a tax benefit from that and this above the line deduction. How accountants refer to it It’s for $300 so anybody who makes a contribution can get $300 off if it’s to a qualifying charity. And some of the big charities that do not qualify donor advised funds. That’s kind of an important want to note. So don’t advice funds typically used by a little bit more wealthier individual that would tend to itemize taxes their tax returns. But that will not qualify. And that helps to get the money into the stream of operating charities quicker than those that are sort of keeping funds in accounts for years without a that payment respect provisions.

[00:28:33.24] spk_3:
I’m hoping that that $300 will increase in the future, but at least as you said, it’s a start. It’s It’s $300 up to $300 per per taxpayer. And it’s just for this year 2020 so that anyone itemizing or not, could get at least that much. $300 uh, removed from, you know, exempt from, um, you’re from your taxable income or, well, I’m getting into the weeds about how it’s calculated. Let’s not go there. You get it. You have a federal charitable income tax deduction, if you’re if you’re a non itemizers up to $300. So that’s something that when you when you are making your fundraising messaging again because we will get back to that, there will be times when will be the right time for you to talk about your needs and how your donors can help you fill. Those is maybe even these especially critical and unbudgeted needs. You can make it clear that, ah, that nine non itemizers among your donors can I get a federal income tax charitable deduction for up to $300. That may move some people. I

[00:29:32.64] spk_0:
think there’s an op ed. I can’t remember if it was in the Chronicle of Philanthropy or not earlier this week. Tony, that talked about the need to give to smaller charities at this time. Those were the ones that are gonna be really struggling. And if you really value a small charity, this $300 deduction that you wouldn’t have received before may be just what, you know, tip some people over to helping the small charities. And I’m hoping that that’s that’s true. I’m not sure what type of impact this will have for most people who are probably very fearful right now about where their income is coming from. A lot of unemployment going on right now. And there’s some chairs act provisions that deal with unemployment that we can talk about two. But it’s a scary time, but there will be a time when we’re back. Fundraising. Yeah, this is This is gonna be important, as is the case for a little bit, um, of the wealthier er taxpayer. That is capped by the amount of deductions that can take for charitable contribution. And the traditional cap had been 50% of their adjusted gross income. And if it was a cash donation, the tax cuts and job, Zack said. 60% of your adjusted gross income was your cap of how much you could take for charitable contribution deduction. So if you made $100,000 in adjusted gross income that you were going to report to the I. R. S, you could take up to a $50,000 or if it was a cash contribution to a charity $60,000 deduction off that amount, that was the limitation. This year, that limit is gone. So if you wanted to donate 100,000 of your $100,000 adjusted gross income, you could take a deduction for the full amount.

[00:30:21.51] spk_3:
Yeah, and this is this is a provision that’s mostly for the wealthy. Very few donors bump up against the limitations against there adjusted gross income in in their charitable deductions that it’s not very common, right. But we got some. We got some relief

[00:30:34.24] spk_0:
for older people who may not make very much an income anymore. That’s that’s maybe the primary beneficiary of this. To the extent that they have still disposable income to to provide for charitable giving.

[00:32:03.00] spk_3:
Okay, Okay. All right. We’re gonna leave it there, Gene. Sound good sounds get all right. I want to Thank you very much for doing this. Ah, you know, E. I usually give you a lot more Notice Thio to put a show together. So So thank you. Thank you very much for helping with this special episode. Because I know I know it helps our listeners. That’s that’s really the key. Thanks, Gene. Thanks so much. And I want to remind listeners that were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Math and Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO creative producers Karl Mayer off Sam Lee Woods is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and the music you’ll be hearing shortly because it’s hard to put it in right over this when it’s on the fly. Special episode is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn. Many thanks to Sam, Susan and Mark for helping me get this special episode out to you quickly and, of course, to Jean as well for your for your time on fly, Jean. Thank you. You with me? Next time for non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Stay safe and be great.