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Nonprofit Radio for October 11, 2019: Recruiting Your Board Members

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My Guest:

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi: Recruiting Your Board Members
Gene Takagi returns with 12 tips, ideas and strategies you can use in board recruitment. We’re talking expectations, motivations, commitment, requirements, and more. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit and Exempt Organizations Law Group.

 

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of wheel if I if you irritated me with the idea that you missed today’s show recruiting your board members. Jean Takagi returns with 12 tips, ideas and strategies you can use. Inboard recruitment will get those many of them as we can. We’re talking expectations, motivations, commitment, requirements and Maur. He’s our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and Exempt Organizations Law Group on 20 steak, too. I’ve never been so insulted in all my life. Responsive by Wagner, C. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Witness cps dot com But Cougar Mountain Software, Denali, fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits Tony dahna may slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. And as I’m reading, I realize that the embarrassment of wheel we had that last week. So again, as I’ve said, uh, I’m in desperate need of an intern. So I have someone to blame for these mistakes. So so sorry we didn’t get ah updated sickness for you this week. Uh, no one to blame but myself, which is the problem. That’s why I need interns. Um, let’s let’s bring on Jean. I feel, uh, we’ll rescue everything for us. You know who he is? He’s the managing attorney of Neo non-profit Exempt Organizations Law Group in San Francisco. He edits the wildly popular non-profit Law block dot com. And in 2016 he was the American Bar Association’s outstanding non-profit lawyer. He’s at G. Tak Jean, help me out here, please. How are you? I’m doing great. How are you? Very well. You sound strong and powerful. And Vural and enthusiastic. I love it. Thank you. I need that. I need that after my real mistake. Um, So you, uh you have Ah, pretty lengthy. Uh, interesting block post that we’re gonna turn over a little bit, but you know, it’s you. You wrote something for individuals who are contemplating boardmember ship, but we’re gonna turn the tables on it on talk about non-profits or contemplating recruiting board members. And what? What advice you’ve got in that in that regard? Does that sound right? Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah. Go. You’ve, uh you’ve been working with boards and board members for how many decades now? Um, a couple decades. Yeah. Yeah. So you know what you’re talking about. You You’re on your ANA least one board that I know of. Are you on more than one board currently on a couple boards and a few committees that are non board committees, but staying pretty active. Yeah. No, I know. I’m tryingto I just wanna, uh, establish the bona fide. He’s I mean, you’re not just not just a theory for you. You’re actually practicing it and keeping, ah, keeping real boards feet to the fire. Right. You’re not just not in a vacuum. This is real life for you. So yeah, both both the legal adviser to some boards and then sitting in the fire as the boardmember. I’m not sure I’d want to be on a board that you are a boardmember of you. Would you hold this will? You would hold us to high standards. I I certainly aspire to high standards. I don’t know if I achieve them often or ever, but I aspired to them. So I guess, Yeah, you we wouldn’t clash or anything if you were on the same board. I would I would respect you. I just would be annoyed that you’re always telling us that, you know, we’re not We’re not reaching the right standards of governance or you’re failing your failing the the the requirements of of the duties, the three duties. And and you’re not fulfilling your responsibilities as board members. I would, you know, I would respect you. Um, and I would I would aspire to do better in your words. I would. I would. Yeah. Totally trying not to be that type of boardmember. Well, but you’d be hard. You know, we all know those boardmember. Yeah, but will be hard for you to turn it off. I mean, you know, you’re you’re a fiduciary to the organization. You have. You know, it would be hard for you to turn it off. I could tell it would. All right. Um, So let’s see. So we’re starting with, you know, starting with some of the basics. Um, you want you want to make sure that people understand what? What they’re taking on what responsibilities The three duties, which you’re, um, loyalty, care and obedience. Um, you want to make sure that board members understand what they’re walking into? Yeah. I mean, that’s absolute basics because, you know, everybody could say, you know, I like to be on the board. I’m really passionate about the mission, and that’s a great starting point, but I know that that’s not gonna get very far if you’re not willing to do the rest of the work that’s involved. So just having an understanding of what your legal obligations are, first of all, is probably a good first place to start and for the non-profit, because you flipped it nufer the non-profit. When they start to recruit boardmember, they want to make sure that the board members kind of understand not only what the organization wants out of them, but what the law demands of them. And and they should have offensive. Actually, what could happen if they don’t settle the obligations and that maybe the boardmember from hell that nobody wants the ones who could tell the well in the worst case scenarios, which I sometimes see. This is what can happen it in, like the worst case scenario as you might imagine, might be personal liability of boardmember. Go out of pocket for something that happened with the organization on their watch, because perhaps gross negligence or something more serious than that, or just terrible PR damage where boardmember Zehr individually attacked by media and social media for some failure of the organization. I think from the headline in many news stories over the December and the beginning of the fall, we’ve seen some high profile non-profits where they have been called out for. You know, donors are for activities have engaged in, and so boardmember Zehr often held, you know, to thio how they’re living up to their authority on the responsibilities by the media and social media and maybe buy you a time dummy. Maybe that’s right. Non-profit radio also aspires to a very high standard. The show achieves the high standards. It’s me personally. It’s me personally. That’s ah, that’s rare for way. Just have about two minutes before before our first breaking. You make the point that there should be in place. My ability insurance directors and officers liability insurance. Well, that would be one of the things that I would look for as a perspective boardmember coming on to a board. So I would think that a non-profit that aspires to try to get high quality people on their board who are really interested in doing the work protection, huh? Just in case personal liability doesn’t become an issue. Directors and officers, insurance is kind of what protects against that. So that would be a mosque on my list. Do your do your boards that you sit on, let you get involved with recruitment. Yeah, I’m Max. Absolutely. Part of the one of the committee that that’s in charge of recruitment for one of the board. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. So that I shouldn’t say like, let you go. I mean it. That way, they take advantage of your expertise. That’s what I should say. Buy-in recruiting new boardmember. Yeah, because it is essential. You know, the people want to have to know what they’re getting into. And, of course, like you said, it has to go a lot lot further than just passion. Um, we have about a minute or so. What? You you knew, name something. What would you feel like bringing up for a minute? And then we could talk about it more after the break through? Sure, I guess, is a nonprofit organization I would want to know. Why does this individual? So I’m thinking about inviting onto the board. Want Do they want to be a board member of our organization? And I know everybody I talk to you is gonna say what we have a passion for the organization of the organization’s mission. But I would want to know what else. Why else do you want to serve? Sometimes those reasons could be all about, you know, uh, very altruistic. And you know what? Emotionally helping the people about our organization helps what that means to them and the social impact they want to create. But sometimes there are self interested reasons as well. And sometimes that’s okay to do it for personal reasons. And maybe we’ll get into that. Tony, would you have any personal reasons for wanting to serve on the board? Could you see some benefit that comes to you personally out of it? Oh, sure. Um, hold that thought. I’m not trying to get out of answering. Let me take this break, and, uh, and I will answer in about 30 seconds. Um, this break is for regular CPS. Are you thinking about a change possibility? Possibly in your c p. A relationship. Maybe your board is talking about boardmember boardings rumbling that they’ve had the same accounting firm for a long time. Or maybe they’re not quite up thio up to par for some reason, um, whatever the reasons, maybe you’re feeling, ah, growing need to get some accounting help. You know, a partner. You know, partner Wagner. You know, ye duitz doom. Weinger CPS has been a guest multiple times. Talk to him, see if they can help you get started at wagner cps dot com. Now, let’s go back to recruiting your board members. Um, okay, Gene. So, yes, Uh, I didn’t I didn’t call you out for asking me a question, which is generally prohibited, but that’s okay. Uh, so, yeah, I mean, I’ve ah, personal networking. I mean, if we’re getting to the base level, maybe there’s some people on the board who, you know, I’d like to I’d like to get to know, or maybe I know them and were friendly, and I feel like we would work very well together, Although that could be that could be a bit of a red flag for the non-profit. If if I’m gonna be like a voting bloc with my friend or two that, you know, that could be difficult, depending on what those one or two people are like. Um, but, yeah, of course. Networking business advantage. Um, maybe I’m on another board. And there’s some synergy put potentially between the organization’s, um so there’s a couple of non mission related reasons. What do you hear? You hear any bad stuff? Well, I’ll just add on 15 were good things, and then I’ll talk about the best. Like sometimes people want to develop skills and maybe create job opportunities for themselves. They may start off a boardmember hoping that that might turn into something out with that organization or maybe a allied organization. Um, prestige is probably another, and there are some status boards of, like foundations and symphonies and operas or whatever. Organizations have particular status in a community of whatever communities that have might happen to be sometimes sitting on the board ads toe kind of the social status that somebody might have and power. Sometimes I know for identity based group community organizations, sometimes serving on the board on it. Being with such high like that that that person is able to exercise power in other areas as well. So those might be reasons summer okay for serving on the board of long, but that’s not there. Those were not their primary reasons, or they do not let that get in the way of acting in the best interest of the organization above all other things. But sometimes there are some bad things. And then so serving on the board to get into a contract with your company, that wouldn’t be such a cool thing, although we hear of that happening with several organizations that are in the news. Um, have you where Jean have? Have you ever heard anyone disclosed that what in the in the recruitment process that they want it? Not that I’d like to see. I’d like I’d like to see this organization doing some work with my with my company. I haven’t heard you haven’t heard of the organization I join, but there’s definitely been some implications that for some of the reasons that you discussed well voting blocs created within the board from business partners or business, then you know they’re using that block to take advantage and have the whole board or enough of the board to agree to certain contracts, um, that allow their companies to do business. So I didn’t want to point out to meeting, but I think it’s safe to point out one name of an organization because they’ve been in the news an awful lot under governance. And that’s the N R A, which is actually a bunch of different organizations. Ah, but the n r A. That sort of the main organization, uh, has been kind of under heat a little bit for the contract that their board members and they have a very large board. I think over 70 people the contract that their board members have engaged in with the organizations and whether that was on abuse of their duties or not. I will comment on whether I think it is or not. But there’s that perception of a non-profit boardmember being on a board that the proof contract would that boardmember company and when that occurs over and over again with multiple board members and it starts to look like the voting blocs are sort of a wash, you wash my hands. I’ll wash yours kind of kind of deal. And so you have to think about the perception, and not only just the limitations that Lami have on that. There’s certainly some legal issues that could arrive, but the public perception of that and being on the front page of The New York Times or The Washington Post or whatever. And you know, with that allegations, what will that do to the rest of your fund-raising and how the rest of the community thinks of your organization? So there are some really interesting things that could be bad as well in terms of bad personal reasons for serving on the board. Um, I’m going backwards now to something that you mentioned about potential social media embarrassment for you being on the board. Critics of the organization, I guess, is there some way that an organization can, um, insulate or or somehow protect or what can what? Can an organization offer to, uh, mollify someone’s concerns over possible personal embarrassment on the social networks? Yeah, you know, it’s a really tricky thing. There are some organizations that try, so you’ll see that some organizations are very open about putting on their organizational website. You know who is on the board of directors? Um, but some organizations feel that they want to keep that information a little bit more private, and they don’t put their board members on their website. The limitation to that is that your form 9 90 which is a public document. And that’s your annual information return that you submit to the I. R. S. Um, that’s easily available on a site like GuideStar Archer. And, um, that’s going to list all of your board members on it. So as much as you want insulate some board members, that’s not really the way the law thinks about what the law thinks about. You know, non-profit organizations, while while they’re not public organizations, they’re not governmental organizations. They are the type of private organization without ownership where the board are really acting in Stuart’s on behalf of the community, Um, and they want to make sure that those organizations are fairly transparent and what they’re doing, including who is leading the organization. So that’s why that information is required on the form 9 90 board members and officers so that everybody could see them. And what type of compensation they make for the organization if they’re paid. So is there not really much protection that an organization could offer someone against attack again on the social networks? I’m thinking of that because it’s it’s so public, and it could be potentially so embarrassing. There’s really If someone wants to call out a boardmember, there’s not really nothing. It’s not really something that the organization could do. Tow support, the murder? Well, yeah. I mean, other than Dino insurance, you know, the the organization could It’s the beer enough. Have their lawyer perhaps look a defamation claim. That’s a stretch. That’s that’s really serious. Okay, yeah. And the social networks are Ah, well, yeah. I mean, they’re they’re pretty much open. They are what they are. You have to go pretty far. You have to go pretty far to be, uh, someone have a reasonable claim against you for defamation, right? And in that environment, right. And you’re weighing in against the First Amendment rights of people to be able to express their opinions like a yelp review that’s really bad and says, Well, you know, this organization has done horrible things, and these are the board members who are responsible. Well, that’s probably protected straight. All right, opinion. It’s something. But it’s something for organizations that are potentially controversial. If they’re doing grassroots political organizing or really doesn’t even have, sometimes have to be. It doesn’t have to be political to be controversial s. So if your organization has a mission that’s high profile of any of any sort, um, you need to make sure you’re boardmember understand that there’s a potential for them to be, uh, called out good or bad. We’re thinking about what we were thinking more of the bad. That’s true, Tony, I. And I think now that I think about your question about is there anything that you can do to protect your boardmember? There is one protection for small organizations that they might offer is to not publicized or use a board members home address or even their business address as the organization’s address. And I know a lot of small grassroots organizations do that. They kind of just use a board members. Or maybe the founders home addresses their organizational address. Yes, well, once you’ve made that public information now, people could actually go to that home. They know where you live. So, um, not subjecting a boardmember tiu. That might be important. And that that address might be located on a public document that details either the organization’s address for the ancient for service of process address. So that’s the agent preservative processes. Basically who? Somebody would deliver a lawsuit, too. And you are required to make that publicas well. And oftentimes people put a boardmember they’re on, they put their home address so they make sure that they get the mail. That’s not very good for privacy concerns. So those are two things to think about. You could get a P o box for 100 bucks a year or something. And sometimes a P O box is not permissible. They require a street address, But then you can look too. There are a lot of virtual offices that will let you suri address, right? Right. Yes, exactly. That’s right. The male shops that used to be mailbox etcetera. Um, but that type of that type of store, they’ll give you a street address, but it’s a storefront. Yeah, OK, yeah. That’s right. For service of process P O. Box. Not allowed. Probably, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um, you want to be looking for someone who is, Uh Ah. Good. Ah, good team. Team player works well with others. They’re gonna be serving on committees. And of course, we talked about expectations. You gonna tell them whether they’re gonna be on one or two committees? Maybe you could even tell them which committee or committees they’re going to serve on or ask them what their preferences are. But it’s committee work. It’s full board work. It’s working team wise with the C suite, sometimes with the staff, maybe with volunteers, somebody who’s gonna be collegial and team worthy, right? Yeah, I think you know, I wouldn’t understand an organization that wouldn’t want that characteristic of a boardmember. And it’s hard to tell, right? Some people are good about, you know, putting on a good public safe. So it’s the only time you’ve ever met this candidate is, uh, you know, a breakfast interview, and then you’re deciding whether to that that person should be on the board or not. That’s a tricky decision to make because they can say they’re collegial player and be really nice at the breakfast meeting. But do you know how, though act in aboard environment, then sometimes that’s going to be very different from that one on one meeting. So getting to know the person might include a little bit more diligent but informing them of, like Witek of requirements and responsibilities they’re gonna have for your organization if that’s committee work or that other work or expectation that they volunteered at events that times are work with some other volunteers or work with some staff on some committee, whatever kind of the organization does with its own board members, that’s the expectation. And that’s why they want t get Yu on the board. You know, they’ve got to make sure they’re expressing that to the boardmember in advance before they bring them on, because the boardmember. Is walking into something that they didn’t know about. That’s gonna be a potential mismatch and can create some harsh feelings. It’s not managed, right? Yeah, sure. I didn’t know. Why didn’t you? Didn’t you tell me up front that this was gonna be the thieves? Were the expectations on And of course, as long as we’re talking about expectations again, we want to be very clear about fund-raising expectations. How much are you required to personally give. How much do you do we look for you to get from from other sources? Do we look to you to host events in your home or in your business? Uh, do we look to you to bring the business community to us, etcetera? All those types of fund-raising requirements should be should be laid out. Yeah, it’s a it’s a It’s a great question to ask, because this is a little bit of a debatable topic, and I see both sides on it. Is that fund-raising requirement? Tony Some a little curious as to how you feel about it, too. I kind of feel like it’s great to ask that every board member give a meaningful amount for them. But I’m a little bit more leery of the board that says, You know, we have a $1000 a $25,000.100,000 dollar minimum that you contribute a year for the privilege of being a boardmember big sickening that’s now framing it as a donor relationship rather than a relationship in which the expectations are is that the boardmember is been a exercise proper oversight and helped direct the organization into the future um So while I think donations should be a requirement of some sort, I don’t think strict numbers are really a good idea, Particularly if diversity and inclusiveness is something that we want in our organizational board. Yeah, Yeah. I used to feel that a strict number was appropriate, but I’ve changed my mind over the years that it should be what it should be a meaningful gift for the individual. Now, there are marquee names with that we’ll never get away from. You know, we have $100,000 requirement here, but we’re talking to small and mid sized non-profits, not the New York City Ballet and Stanford University. Right. So But you know that that, uh, well, they’re the other, the other 5% we’re talking to the other 95 but they’re the five that they’re not in the 95. So, uh, so they’re they’re moving them aside as we do routinely. We don’t even mention the 1999% of time without even thinking of them. So for our listeners, yeah, uh, it should be a meaningful. I mean, it should be a stretch gift, you know, But then you have to have conversation with each individual boardmember. You know what that means for them? I think I think before they joined the board, I I agree, Tony. I think that’s a good thing. Thio raise ahead of time. So you don’t put people in awkward positions where their like again going. I had no idea. And this is deeply personal for me. And I’m going through hard times now. Yeah, yeah. Do you like to see these expectations in writing? I kind of liked have, um, some of this in writing as part of the board orientation package so that both parties know kind of what, What he expected. Questions are going to be. So, uh, both, you know, in the board orientation package that I’m thinking of is going to be shared, even with part of it will be shared with a prospect before their actual provided onto the board. Okay, some of the questions that that you’re gonna ask of any prospect so they get to know you better as an organization, as the board of the culture that values better pervading the the organization. And they get to know you better than individual and to see if there is that right fit. So being as transparent as possible up front, I think, is the best way to help make sure you’ve got a good relationship going. You mentioned being independent enough to express your own point of view and not to be intimidated by other committee members of the board members. How would a non-profit assess that? Yeah, it’s a really good question. I think you could see the Valley, Tony and I know you’ve got a legal education background as well. So the independent judgment is really important. So we don’t have kind of a bunch of sheets. Just say, Oh yeah, way trust, you know, our chair or whoever. We will just go along with the boat without actually looking at any of the documents or any of the facts and circumstances related to that boat, which might be very important for which you might have particular skills that you could actually have given the full board. The benefit of if you had actually taken a look at that ensures what you what you had with it rather than sort of rubber stamping what somebody else said so that independent judgment is really important in terms of meeting your legal responsibilities. But it’s also just if you’re a team player, Um, I don’t think you’re just the team player. If all you do is follow, I think with a strong team, you are all supportive of one another. And when you have a certain skill that or experience or perspective, you share that and you utilize that so you can help the team in that area where other people, other people on the board may not have those things. And I think we’re also unique. That we can offer something different from the way everybody else is looking at Is the boardmember on almost any issues. So I think really contributing and exercising that independent judgment is, uh, super important. But testing it wth the question you asked Really hard. I know. So we asked the question. Or you can ask more generative question about how would you behave if you know, the board chair said, We want this on your head. Five out of six other board members say it, but you really disagreed with that. What would you do in that situation? That might be one of the types of questions that you ask a candidate for the board and see what they say. Yeah, Maybe that’s maybe that is the only way is just ask you. What would you do in that situation? All right, Jean, we have to take a break when we come back. Give us any more thoughts you might have on assessing that, uh, that independent judgment and then, you know, then you come back with something that you’d like to chat about. Meanwhile, we’re taking a break for cooking mountain software designed from the bottom up for non-profits. It’s simple to use phenomenal support. Can you say that about your own accounting software? QuickBooks? No. Quick in no turbo cash workday zoho Patriot. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can’t. Um so go with something that is made for non-profits from the bottom up. Cougar Mountain Free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at Tony dahna May slash Cougar Mountain. Now it’s time for Tony’s take two. I’ve never been so insulted in all my life. This woman years ago accused me of being a thief, a planned giving thief. She suggested that I would steal from an estate steal from my employer at the time. This is what I was a director of planned e-giving. Um, and all while trying to get me to do her a favor, which was technically well, not just technically, which was impossible for me to do is illegal for me to do not just on a technicality. It was illegal for me to have done, but she didn’t understand how this whole thing works. So, um, see what shocked me? It’s Ah, it’s a video where I’m hosted by Peter Heller of Heller Consulting Group. He’s got a video siris. He interviewed me. I told this shocking story, and you can find it on. Uh, yeah, I mean, you go to Peter Heller’s website, but why would you wanna go there when you go to tony martignetti dot com? That’s the place to go. Watch the video at tony martignetti dot com. All right, let us continue with Jean Takagi and recruiting your board members. Gene, anything more you want to say about possibly assessing independent judgment than anything come to mind there, but I think it has to do the questioning of the candidate. But maybe more importantly, you have to share with the candidate that you’ve got a culture that allows for independent judgment to be welcomed, right? You don’t want to make it look like you have this culture where everybody is going to rubber stamp a board members or the CBO’s. Maybe which is more common. Whatever the CEO decides upon, they know the day to day stuff, so they must be right. Do you have a culture that that allows the board to question, then probe and act more than just the sounding board? But really, Thio provide a lot of additional input and then decide whether the board should actually stacked in and make decisions where there’s enough of the board that that challenges what a particular board share or a CEO, my steak is in the best interest of the organization. So it is a particularly important point to create a culture that allows her for individual board members to intervene when it’s reasonable and appropriate. But I think that’s the last thing, okay, and this is related to something that you and I have talked about before, which is very bad sign. If all the votes are unanimous and there isn’t this culture that you just described, you know everybody just rubber stamps. Ah, there’s And we talked about it. It might be a strong board chair or CEO or somebody extra wealthy who everybody is intimidated by, or whatever. You know that those are all those are all very bad and counter to the culture that you’re talking about fostering. Um, what did you want? You got one. You do throw something out there? Sure. So I think another thing that an organization wants to do with with an individual is to make that individual comfortable, that they know who’s actually on the board and who the CEO is. Some some organizations recruit board members, and only one boardmember. Knows this new candidate. Nobody else has ever met him, you know, and they judge that candidate based on how they look on papers. But he’s got a good resume. Yes. Um, and this boardmember vouches for him, and we really need a boardmember. So let’s Alexis, um, yeah, uh, so you know that’s not a typical. It’s pretty common. So for non-profits have a system where they went. Why don’t we have that breakfast meeting or lunch meeting and bring out a few board members on bring out the CEO for one of these things. If you’re you know, it is a board member and the board really that important to an organization. And the law recognizes a tte the top of of what is still ah, hi article system in terms of governance, it’s the law requires, you know, that the board is at the top, then a boardmember position is super super important. And is the organization treating the addition of a boardmember as it is that important? And that’s a good sign of the board for an individual candidate and for aboard that actually sets it up so that they’re going to place proper priority to bringing on a new boardmember by letting the meet several board members and CEO and maybe attended board meeting without any, um, sort of strings attached. A visitor. You come out and see a get to know us, we’ll get to know, you know, that’s a promising Anything I haven’t heard that suggested for That’s a good one. Let someone come to a board meeting as a visitor as an observer, that was you mean? Yeah, exactly. Um, and I think they would get a sense of what the culture is much better from actually getting to be in the meeting. Even if they’re a silent observer. I’m sure there’s going to be some pleasantries exchanged, but they’ll know much better. And you get a sense out of them if you actually allow them to participate as part of the board. Um, at least with introductions and maybe what they want out of what their views are of the organization that that might be a nice baker. Also your point about doing it based on a breakfast meeting in a resume review that, um, yes, this is subsumed in what you were saying, really? But I won’t make it explicit that that that just doesn’t give, um doesn’t give credence to the, uh doesn’t respect the, uh, the position that you’re bored should be held in. It makes it, you know, just purely transactional. We need a body, she’s available, and she has a good resume that, you know, that doesn’t doesn’t, uh, give someone ah, feeling of prominence in the organization like Ajay. If it hadn’t been my warm body that that was brought in, there would have been some other warm body that they found the next day, but but a Siri’s where there’s multiple interviews to three interviews over several weeks on and there’s deliberation and you make sure the person shows up on time for the three interviews and takes them seriously, you know, those you can learn a lot just by observing somebody over over several weeks or maybe even over a couple of months. Yeah, I think that’s so true. And I met the okay with even introducing some perspective board members to certain staff beyond the CEO. Um, so and then soliciting staff input is, well, a thio what they think about this perspective. Candidates. Um, I, uh I am forgetting a good picture. Look all around from all people. Um, and Aziz said that the importance, I think articulated much better than I did. The importance of the position should be respected by the process. That’s what I meant to say. Yeah, I think you just said it better than I did. Okay. Really Got you said. You certainly said it more succinctly. That’s definitely true. Um, okay. You have one. You gotta You gotta basically have your compliance house in order your nine nineties articles of incorporation by-laws policies. Your financial statements, whether audited or not, All these things I mean, this is sort of foundational, but, you know, if there’s a problem in any of these, you’re you are got you at the organization are gonna look poor in the eyes of your perspective. Board members. That’s what I think. And I think as a perspective boardmember and I will give you this morning, actually for a board. So coincidentally, um, I’m gonna look at all these. Um and I will look at them with a bit of a critical eye to see if I see sloppiness. Where if I see vagueness in in what the missionary, I see a different mission statement in the articles from the by-laws the website. Like I had really tell what they’re doing where they’re 9 90 Just seemed to be like, very, you know, scattered. We prepared. Of course. I’m gonna see, you know, the financial. I’m gonna see how stronger week they appear, at least on paper. Moneywise. Um, so there’s a lot of things the documents are gonna show me. So if a non-profit is very careful about doing these things and finding on time, of course it I’ll see if they’re finally late and you know they’re suspended or delinquent or or whatever. So the non-profits should like when whenever you invite a houseguest over that you want to impress in, clean your house before you bring that person. And I think non-profits got to think this thing. Wait, they’re gonna bring the boardmember and again back-up prominent important positions. We’re going to clean our house so we can attract the best candidates. And hope will retain the best candidates as well. Well, Gene, that organization would be lucky to get you in-kind on. How many boards can you be on? My gosh, you’re on your own. You already you have time for? Yeah, I usually have a tube board maximum. But the organization that pocket is important enough. And I actually have a term off of another board. Uh, within the year that that gives me the ability to sort of overlap with three boards for maybe a few months. If I If I should be so lucky as to be elected by that order, um, But then then we’ll be back to two boards after that. Okay? I see you get you have a whole schedule of new spreadsheet to manage. You’re bored. You’re bored. Obligation? Yeah, actually. D’oh, I’m very careful about trying not overcome it. Let’s talk about something that you and I talked about. Oh, I don’t know. Three months or so ago, maybe 23 months. We had a real well, uh, meaningful conversation about diversity equity and inclusion. So without going over the that full hour that we spent, um, if this is important to the organization, then it’s going to want to recruit board members for whom that value is important. Yeah, I think so. Well, and if they’re looking to recruit, um, certain, uh, members of the community that might give the board more diverse representation. They’re gonna want to really think about making that person feel not like a token which we discussed about and have an inclusive environment that really welcomes their ideas and acknowledges and ensures that they’re able to exercise the power that they have in their position, that they have a voice in the organization and in the governance of the organization. They’re not just sitting by the sidelines, helping the board take a better looking picture. So it really is an issue. But it comes down to where? For an individual. If you believe strongly in that In in that diversity concept, um, and you are invited onto a board that’s not diverse, and you’re a member of the majority group. So let’s say the group is predominantly white man and your white male we get invited onto that board. Well, if you really falik the value of diversity equity inclusion, you might say, No, I’m not gonna take that position on that board because I would grab you see that board bring on somebody who does give you a more diverse perspectives representation on Guy might, you know, being part of the majority group, participate in another way to help you get that. But I don’t want to be part of a board and just make make that that issue on even harder one to deal with. So it’s an interesting situation for organizations that want to think about it. Um, if they want to bring in the best people, they’re gonna have to think about how they’re gonna address their composition issues as well. That that happens to be an issue. Yeah, no, it’s very altruistic. The way you describe you know, the selflessness of doing what’s right for the organization. Bye bye. Not not accepting a board position and flip that on its side. Uh, non-profits need to be, uh, thoughtful about who they are inviting If this is an important value for them, Jean, we gotta take our very last break turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories all the while building support for your mission. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to dot CEO and Jean and I have but loads more time for recruiting your board members. Um, all right, G, you have something, uh, you want to bring up? Sure. I think maybe the next important point I wanted to bring up because it happened to the indication is non-profit is great. It’s filled with wonderful people and they they’re really working towards something that I believe in passionately in their culture is the great says everything seems to be fine, but at the moment they are confronting some really difficult issues that’s going to require extra effort extra tax from the board, and it might be a financial challenging, financially challenging time for them might be a leadership transition, that they’re losing a founder or expect long term executive director and they’re gonna move into a new one. They might be engaged in litigation for which they did nothing wrong. But all of this doesn’t They’re going to be sort of boiled in in lawsuits and potential PR damage that might go along with that on all of the things can create more work for aboard and definitely require more effort in intelligence impact from the board. I think non-profits have to let prospective board members know, even if those things have not hit the media are are really public yet that if they’re coming on toe into an organization that’s got some imminently difficult challenges that will be brought before the board, they want to know first. Is that the best time to recruit boardmember? Because it might not be. But if they are recruiting port members, I think they got to be up front again with them and not surprised them after their dahna boardmember got you. Now you gotta be on the committee that deals with art. Being involved in this lawsuit duty to disclose basically thing I think that that organizations have to be up front about that, obviously very tactful there. I know there are confidentiality issues that are gonna be weighing in on the other side of that transparency, so somethingto really managed very carefully and thoughtfully. You’re basically saying there’s a duty to disclose these these kinds of challenges, and that could be an opportunity the organization could could turn that into something, you know? Yeah, we have this particular financial challenge, but that’s why we’re looking for you. Andi is not to be a donor, but, you know, maybe it’s Ah, it’s a it’s a finance problem or an investment problem on endowment management problem or something. And so you’re can hyre are sorry. Recruit someone who has a particular expertise and that person could, you know, potentially be a leader in I don’t want to turning the organization around but guiding the organization out of the difficulty that they’re facing so it could present a challenge and an opportunity for non-profit and for a potential boardmember to come together and help each other. I think that’s very, very true. Yeah. And financial management expertise is, um, really sought after quality for a board members. And sometimes some boards have a hard time finding those people, so it’s a difficult issue. Arises. And, um, uh, they put extra effort into finding somebody like that that that can be an opportunity for referred bringing ana boardmember gonna be invaluable for many, many years. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what about, um, the, uh just, you know, sort of leadership personality, like, you know, Are you Are you? Ah. Are you messing? Well, you are. You messing well as leaders with the the potential boardmember do you put forth a, um, an image which hopefully is not merely a not a facade, but, you know, Are you confident you you convey confidence in the direction of the organization, the your leadership, your leadership style? Uh, you know, these, I think, are sort of intangibles that Ah, well, much of what we’re talking about is intangible, but that ah, potential boardmember is using toe assess whether they’re gonna fit. Yeah, absolutely. I’m sure they’re all the studies that we know of. Um, where first impressions are powerful tribes of what that relationship turns into um so or whether there is a continued relationship at all. Um, and I think that’s very true in bringing Ana boardmember as well. So boardmember gets introduced to a board chair or to an executive director or somebody else in a senior leadership position. And first impressions are going to develop pretty quickly. So certainly within the 1st 30 seconds Teoh a minute. Um, they’re going to be some presumptions that each side has about the other. And I think understanding the limits of what first impressions means are important for board members when you’re dealing with people who might be introverted or shy, and or maybe from a cultural, different cultural background not used to sort of exhibiting some of the the the confidence you know that you might find from another culture stressing that important in the first meeting maybe is more of a dimmer, demure attitude that is more valued by other cultures upon the first meeting, or that find that more appropriate. But I think we have to sort of take into account that there are different reasons that people are are showing for the first impression. But on the other side, when you’re the non-profit. You do want to make sure that you are giving the best impression we can, not just in the documents that we talked about earlier, but in your leadership. So I’m always a huge fan of education and trading, and I think boys don’t do that enough for their CEOs in their board chairs. Um, so yes, way kind of expect them to have the skill on. And maybe once in a while we’ll send them to a training where they’re just sort of getting training about the secretary, you know, in a sector wide conference or something. But are we really giving them training on on certain things that might be really, really relevant, but very, very specific? So if they’re the public face of the organization, should we be giving them some public relations training or some media training? Those things, too, just sort of think about it again. I’m a big fan of training, and the board can really help by saying we want allocate some resources to this on. Make sure that we’re providing for that, that that strong first impression and understanding about first impressions on their limitations when we’re judging other people on it. Yeah, I’ve seen instances to where, um, the organization invests in coaching for the CEO. I’ve seen that I’m not a couple times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they see promise potential. But I guess the CEO, maybe, you know, like like all of us, I mean has some shortcomings. You know, maybe it’s Ah, I don’t know what leadership leader, management of the other C suite individuals. Or maybe it’s, you know, there’s not enough team building or something, you know, whatever it is, they see a need a gap, and, uh, they invest in a coach for the for that CEO. I think that’s such a great, um, uh, allocation of research from from from many organizations that have money to invest in their leadership leadership training. I think coaching from the right people could be invaluable even for a very, very senior executive. None of us have all of the tools and all of the best qualities. Andi executive director seems to need so many different skillsets so many experiences in so many abilities. I think coaching never heard. Um, we’ve talked about we talked about the consistency across documents, and so now we’re talking about meeting, meeting the leadership of the organization and maybe even meeting some staff, introducing staff to potential board members. You want to make sure that not only your documents but you’re your people boardmember Zand staff and see sweet alike are consistent in terms of messaging, that they all have the common vision that’s laid out in the vision statement and that the articles of incorporation of the by-laws without by-laws the articles of incorporation speak to know the people all need to be consistent, as as thes potential board members are interviewing them just as much as you’re interviewing the potential board members. Yeah, I think that’s very true. And I think when the, um kind of the things that I think is overlooked right now is the importance of memorializing or documenting the organization’s value. Um, in a document like the by-laws Wait, don’t do it. We have incited a standard practice. I’m trying to think about that being an actual, um, important section of the box by-laws. Really? Okay, Yeah, I think organizations Now, um, you’re driven by your your mission, of course, but it’s not just your mission. You’re also driven by your value because if your mission was, I don’t know. We talked about this example before, but your mission was just thio. If feed homeless people, you could just wait down suit on the sidewalk, right? You could play down slop there, and many homeless people have to eat it that nobody does that right, because that’s not within our values of having people had to be treated with dignity and respect. Um, organizations just won’t do that. But we don’t explicitly say why we don’t just affect the mission, you know, to the maximum degree by just doing things without, you know, care and just laying it out. So I think it’s really important that we say what our values are and how the values that I think about are those that will guide our decisions so that it actually stops us from saying we’re gonna spend a maximum amount to get the most people served. No, we’re gonna not spend the maximum to maximize the number of people served. We want to maximize the service that we’re giving as well in balance, that and why are we doing that because of these values? And I think that has to be documented. So with that we know we actually share them with all the people, including the perspective boardmember. We don’t just assume it. That may not be true. Okay, Jeanne, we gotta leave it there. Well said he’s managing attorney of Neo non-profit Exempt Organizations Law Group in San Francisco. You’ll find the block post that we were speaking from at non-profit law block dot com, which you should be subscribed to its 12 considerations before you join that non-profit board. But I’m not sure I don’t want I don’t want a decrease traffic on hits to your site, But I think we I think we did a pretty good job of going through. Ah, all these 12. Maybe we didn’t. You know, we didn’t explicitly one through 12 but I think we’ve covered the vast majority. These, if not if not everything. Jean, thank you very much. Thanks for sharing your expertise. Thanks so much, Tony. Really appreciate it. My pleasure. Next week. Scale up and sustain with Kathleen Kelly. Janice. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers Witnessed gps dot com but koegler Mountain Software, Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits. Tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. A creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein, who is me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern Time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live Life Your way on talk radio dot N Y C aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Fridays 1 to 2, Eastern at talking alternative dot com Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant. Our Awakening Humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com Now broadcasting 24 hours a day. Do you love, or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history, its vibe, it’s feel and its energy tune and live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio dahna you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network.

Nonprofit Radio 450th Show Recap

Last week was Nonprofit Radio’s 450th show. Here’s my highlight video including co-host Claire Meyerhoff from the PG Agency and live music from Scott Stein, singing our theme music, “Cheap Red Wine.” Also calls from Gene Takagi, our longest-running contributor, from NEO Law Group; Yigit Uctum from returning sponsor Wegner CPAs; and Peter Panepento at new sponsor Turn Two Communications. And a welcome to new sponsor Cougar Mountain Software.

Best part is the heartfelt cameo from Tony Martignetti, Sr., with commentary on his son. 

Nonprofit Radio for July 26, 2019: 450th Show!

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Claire Meyerhoff, Scott Stein, Maria Semple, Gene Takagi & Amy Sample Ward: 450th Show!
We’re celebrating Nonprofit Radio’s 9th anniversary and 450th show! We’ve got Claire Meyerhoff co-hosting, live music from Scott Stein, giveaways from Cura Coffee, our contributors Maria Semple, Gene Takagi and Amy Sample Ward, July 26 history lessons and lots more fun. To win prizes, tweet about our 450th using #NonprofitRadio. We’ll pick the clever ones and shout you and your nonprofit as winners, making you a part of history. Celebrate with us!

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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View Full Transcript
Transcript for 450_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190726.mp3 Processed on: 2019-07-27T00:45:39.647Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…07…450_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190726.mp3.427129504.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/07/450_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190726.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. You heard that live music. It’s our 450 of show foreigners. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of radio. I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into op Telmo psychosis if I saw that you missed today’s show. It’s our 4/50. Claire Meyerhoff from the PG agency is our guest co host. We’ve got this live music from Scott Stein. All our contributors Jean Takagi, Amy Stamp Award and Maria Simple will be calling in along with the new sponsors to introduce and announce we’re gonna giveaway bags of cure a coffee. Scott is going to be playing more music for us. Claire’s gonna lead us in a fun history lesson. We’re live tweeting with the hashtag non-profit radio, So join us on Twitter. We’re on Facebook. Live at the Tony No at on my page. Tony martignetti zoho of your If you are a friend there, we’re on Facebook. But if not Twitter with the hashtag non-profit radio. This is all on our 4/50 show, ninth anniversary Thank you so much for being with us. Were sponsored by Response, sir by Wagner c. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial also sponsored by turn to Communications, p. R and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two t w o dot co So that website is turn hyphen. T w o dot CO and for the 450th show were sponsored by Cure Coffee connecting coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. Cure a cough a dot com. Don’t you talk pretty? That’s clear. Meyerhoff. Welcome. Welcome. Oh, she’s a trained. She’s radio could tell that I’m on treyz Telemann train and she’s a pro. Welcome back to the show in my heart for 50. Thank you for coming up. Thank you. Came from Washington D c. I drove actually was in New England. Drove down yesterday. Will be driving back to D. C. Welcome. Bible days are creative producer. It’s good to have you. Yes, way We started this show. Will you started the show. But I helped you way back when you asked me some for some advice, and you were like, What would you charge me? And I’m like, you know, really wouldn’t charge you anything. But you know what I’d like? I’d like my name at the end of the credits of every show. It’s been their claim. Our creative producer, cloudgood I know it’s serving last. That’s what you want. It’s there. Nine years. It’s been, like one. A legacy. Scotty Stein’s got Stein. Welcome back. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Always good to see it. Always good to be beyond the show. Pleasure. I love having you for the anniversary shows. You bring your keyboard. Yep. We’re gonna hear cheap red wine. We are gonna hear a brand new composition World release. Ah, yeah. I wrote it this morning. Okay. E wrote it this morning. First to hear it are awesome. Yes. What? What’s going on in the Scott Stein music World Music gigs coming up? Yeah, actually, doing a gig out in Brooklyn on Monday at a place called Bark or Tits And the debt. Ms. Park section of Brooklyn, close to where I live. Uh, me and three other songwriters Jerry Cherry, Kyle Lacey and Sarah Wise doing kind of a song writers in the round thing. It’s a great little room for that. So I’m doing that on that. I’m about to head to Chicago on Wednesday. I’m goingto Lollapalooza. I’m playing really play? No, I am playing a CZ part of a kid’s rock fan, Joanie Leeds in The Night Lights who I’ve worked with for almost 10 years. Uh, we’re playing the kids stage at Lollapalooza on Thursday. Friday, Joanie Leeds and that’s it. Love that. Congratulations, follow-up, Pollux. Yeah, I’m excited. How do they define kids at Lollapalooza? But, uh, I think 10 and under. Okay. I mean, I think the general demographic for Joni’s me could be anything from like toddlers up. Three. Think that 1st 2nd grade, something like that. It’s pretty broad range of children’s ages, but a lot of fun. It’s super super fun. Congratulations. Thank you. It’s awesome. Yeah, What’s going on in the clear Meyerhoff PG agency World plan giving creative. I continue to help lots of wonderful non-profit organizations with their legacy programs, helping them build out their legacy societies and helping them reach and engage their best prospect. So they make requests and other plan gif ts to their favorite non-profit charities. About s So where you living now? You live in North Carolina and I live in Washington, D C live in Alexandria, Virginia, in Alexandria. Okay. Okay. What’s Ah, that’s a cool town. It’s great a lot going on right now. That’s Ah, that’s the new isn’t Google. It’s coming. The Amazon Amazon. Remember? Amazon had the big contest and it shows part of Arlington, Virginia to be the darling of Alexander. Pretty darn close. Pretty close. Does this mean your property value is going about my condo in October? And it’s already increased quite a bit. So it was. It’s been good for real estate, Awesome in the DC area, people buzzing about this And I guess that’s the thing like Courtney, I don’t know. You know, you’re not in the, you know, in the local Well, there’s a lot to talk about. What you live in Washington, D. C, for instance. There’s this guy on Pennsylvania Avenue and there’s this Congress and okay, so people talk about it and then they talk about non-profit radio there, like every day I walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, our Constitution evident. People are just talking about Tony martignetti non-profit radio and I go What’s not to talk? That’s great. It’s 9th 9th 10th anniversary. You know, I can’t believe Help me. You did help me in the beginning. It’s got nine years on. I have, I have when I’m gonna get to actually way could share these Now I got I got the history is where it was a little thematic Well, history’s thematic thing Yes, you’re clear Your very first show non-profit radio. Yeah, I have it. Here’s the show sheet from It was July 23rd 2010. Wow, nine years ago. That was nine years ago. We started in July. So you were on, like the third or fourth show I was. What was I talking about? I think donorsearch Tory’s for playing storytelling was actually story storytelling in jargon. Remember mary-jo argast maybe jargon jail Throw people in jargon jail. That was your charge. It was your concept. I hate jargon. Credit. I hate the word used all the time. I don’t want any. I don’t ever want to hear the word youth in everything because as I learned in broadcast journalism from Bill Torrey at American University. He said no one ever says, like I saw five youths running down the street. People don’t talk like that. No, this I saw you got five teenagers, five young people running down the street. But that was your first show and jargon. See, the, uh well, I made you those shows. She’s a major your clock. But look how Look at the comparison. I mean, there’s the 2010 show sheet is just like lines, right? And the 2019 is big paragraphs. Dense. We got more going on. All right. Scott Stein. I got your first, uh, Scott Stein. We first used your music on the September 6 2013 show That’s coming up nine years. Yeah, I know. I’m sorry. Wait. Coming up. Six years starts coming up six years? Yes, exactly. I agree. And ah, so that was And that was the first time we used it. And then your for your first time, live with us. Was the 200 show July 18 2014. Okay, 200. You’ve been here for every anniversary since. Except one. Yeah, there was one. I had to go to your apartment record, right? I think I was gonna be on the road or something. That during that during the live broadcast. So yeah, but I pre recorded way pre recorded cheap red wine and played it. I don’t know if that was the 3/50. It was like the one you’ve been on every anniversary since doing every 50. It’s fun. It’s really like a high. Almost like a highlight of the year I turned summer. I’m like, Oh, pretty soon we’re going to do the New York New York show. You think about just I love it. It’s fun because biggest for me. I worked in radio for years, and it’s like my only radio thing I do anymore. We’re gonna turn Scottie. Alright, cheap red wine. This is the song that I licensed from you in 2013. And of course, we only sample of 10 seconds before the vocals. You know, Uh, so I always wanted it. I always want you to play it live. Yeah, and full. And so, if anything you want to say about cheap red wine, I don’t know. This song is older than the show. Uh, comes from a record that it did back in 2009 10 years ago. And I think the song was had already had it for about a year before that. But, uh, yeah, it’s Ah, it’s been really fun. Thio here. It used in this kind of context, So happy to do it for you, son. Please hurry up, baby. Just keep talking sooner later. Offing a routes to what you mean seeking romantic advice from a bimbo. Dumb luck never answers upon a TV street way can agree on nothing way Get tail or ups from my down It is a pawn in each other now, baby. And this look that we found you know you used if I’m a charming gonna can figure out how And you said you thought I was handsome But it doesn’t matter now so keep fallin lungs Your time will allow because I gotta empty promises every bottle of cheap red wine and wait, Wait, Just diamonds. They won’t talk to the cut of clothing that I wear with good stuff when you’re too easily distracted too. Okay, you got to, man. So I’m gonna do the best that I can, but maybe you have some competition day when I’m a wealthy man. You know, I used to find a charming, but I can’t figure out how you said you thought. Always handsome. But it doesn’t matter now, so get full in my punch. Sloane’s your time allow because I’ve got her and promises a bottle of cheap wine. And let’s raise our glasses to take a drink of better days. The other bilich a kiss like that, you say, And I ain’t gonna kill Helen’s dialogue. National victory signs. Who’s We’re perfect for each other long nobody else. Nobody is way. You know, you used to find me charming, but I can’t figure out how you said your father was. Hanson never minded, no matter now. So he had fallen from a punch. Eyes is like your time will allow. Got her Any promises? Neo-sage I love that. I just love that song. Thank you. There’s nobody waiting in line just like cheap red wine. Love. It’s got Thank you. Thank you so much. E-giving are gonna play another one for us later on. Yeah, the the World release premiere. Um I want to give away a prize. We’ll start with Yes. We’ll start with our prize is the 1st 1 is going to This is these are our recent subscribers to the insider alerts where you get it. You get an email from me every Thursday tells you the guest star insider alerts linked to my video on the 1st 1 The most recent to be subscribed is Dennis Lee. Dennis is executive director at the Marching Elite Foundation. So Dennis is gonna get a pound of cure coffee. Congratulations, Dennis Lee, Your coffee going to Dennis Lee? Thank you for being our most recent insider dentist. And, um, we have a little, uh we have a little We have a little bit about, uh, a little bit about your cure Coffee. Well, what we do, we D’oh! I love your coffee. It’s my favorite cure. A coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. And, you know, with every cup of cure, you joined their effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. They are a direct trade coffee company Now, with learning opportunities for dental students in the U. S and abroad. Cure coffee dot com. I love that mission that is so great. They do the dental work for the farmers of the of the beans because the CEO of the company is a dentist. That’s great. I love that Thomas Godlessness. Fantastic. He’s a dentist in California. Yes, bona fide dds after his name. So maybe I’ll go to California to see him. Because, you know, a good dentist. That’s that’s what you find when you stay for life. I’m going to California for years old Blue Frost and Rutherford, New Jersey. Really? Um, yeah. Trust in, like, 3000 dentists. And then you’re not going to, you know, practice dental loyalty. Well, I D’oh, but I guess I have moved to other places where it’s not practical to my dentist and Carl play. Well done, Island, New York. You’ll dentist with anybody? Nothing. My original dentists. Bad reputation, the bad dental grip. You should practice more dental lorts. I hope you’re practicing safe industry. I have my new dentist in Shady Side Maryland. 1,003,000. Dentists. I hope you’re doing it safely. Um, So there was something, huh? Let’s see. Where are we now? Okay, Is that it’s somebody on the phone. Oh, excellent. Okay. Awesome. That must be Jean Takagi. Hey, Jane. Congratulations. Thank you. That is Jean Takagi Eyes our legal contributor, Jean Jean. The Law machine. You’ll find him at neo-sage log group dot com and he’s at G. Tack on Twitter. Longstanding, longstanding contributor. How are you, Gene? I’m doing excellent. How are you? Oh, very good. It’s the 4450th 9th anniversary, huh? You know, we’re doing great. My voice is cracking, which means I’m excited that we’re doing great. Like I’m 14. Um, what’s going on? It, uh, like Neil latto. What do you, uh, what you all paying attention to in San Francisco? We’re enjoying this summer. It’s not. It’s not so hot here. So we’re having fun here, And, uh, I’m working with my partner, Aaron bradrick and Cindy latto. Actually, who’s the director of the master of masters and science of the non-profit management program at Columbia University. Designed a course for the program that we’re really looking forward to doing that. So does that mean you’re gonna be in New York teaching? I may be a little bit more, but we’re doing the design phase right now. Still in design phase. Okay, but you’re hired, right? It’s not You’re going to do it. We’re all working it out right now. Okay? I won’t make any premature announcements. Would get everybody excited. I’m sure we’ll be the first to know. Yeah, yeah, we’re here. We’re here in New York. It’s gotta be. It’s gonna be the breaking news here, so let us know, Gene. Absolutely. Okay. Um and what would you be teaching? It’ll be a program on sort of a business law issue for for non-profit professionals programme A programme? Oh, not just Of course I was I was minimizing it. What would be like a top topic in that in that class for non-profits that they would need to know about what’s what’s a top 10? Things like public private partnership collaborations and kind of some of the legal issues that may arise in those type of interaction. All right, well, you let us know when it breaks. Gene, you’re, uh I always talk about when you’re first way talk about when you were first on the show and then I never know exactly, but I found it this time. I actually did the legwork. It only took me about three years. We’ve been talking about this, but your very first time on this show was August 27th 2010. Nine years. We have just about nine years. Way had just started in July 1010 1 of the show’s Gene’s been on forever. Yeah, regular contributes an original. Well, that’s why he’s changing the law machine. Yeah, he’s on his own longest running contributor. Not not producer. Is that, like Israel tag liners? That attack line you gave him again? He’s too modest. These jeans. A very modest man. He wouldn’t He wouldn’t do that to himself. Right? So you like Tony? Tony, you cringe, Gene, when I say that the radio machine, it’s just a little bit you blush a little bit. Tony Tony, the radio pony like that? Uh, more like a horse, but not a pony. Move on. All right, Jean, I want to thank you so much for calling. It’s good to talk to you. It’s been always my honor and pleasure to Congrats on for 50 and looking for Thio. All of you. Thanks. Thanks a lot. And he has it in his bio. I love that. Thank you, Jean. Good to talk to you. And thanks so much for what you contribute. Thank you, guys. Thanks. Jane. Already anywhere else on the phone. Okay, then, uh, there was this New York Times article on podcasting. Yes, I saw it. And there’s you emailed, just like two weeks ago that I was so excited. But I thought of you as soon as I read it. I did because I said to a friend of mine I was with my friend Laurie and we were reading New York Times at our favorite Starbucks in Newburyport, Massachusetts, and I turned to Laurie. And I said, Look at this article about podcast and and my friend Tony, He has this long time podcast I think he liked goes down into the history books for the podcast. And I think there were a lot of great points made in that podcast. And Sam talked about one of them. Scott Well, Scott. Oh, so Well, Sam talked about what, The 19%? Yeah. Uh um, from march to May of this year, 19% of podcasts had a new episode, right? And there’s something like 700,000 podcasts, and only 19% of those has have produced a new episode in the last few months. So they’re staying. They’re mostly stay after men s three months. March, April May s O That alone puts us in the 81st percentile just of eso tribute to how much work you put into this. You know, I think one of the up shots of the article was that a lot of people go into podcasting and think it’s easy and think it’s, you know, it’s It’s not as much work as it is. And it’s to your credit that you’ve kept this thing going, not just for the number of years but the number of episodes. It’s a lot of work. You have to really devote yourself to it. And, ah, you know, it’s that the technology may not. Maybe, you know, it may be easy for everyone to get started, but it’s hard to to sustain it. And ah, knowing your audience of having your niche is is a big part of it, which is something that you have it. And they said that in the article, Yeah, yeah, And over the years since I’ve been involved with your podcast, people will be try. Oh, I want to do a podcast. I want to do a podcast and I say, Well, do you have any idea what goes into a podcast? Because my friend Tony martignetti has been doing one for 789 10 10 years now, and and he does them consistently every single week, except for two weeks a year. So he does 50 podcasts a year and to produce a podcast every single week and book the guests and come up with the topics and write all the things and keep the sponsors and work with Sam and and work with Scott. And to get it all done is really a great achievement. So around of applause, that’s a good tagline that zoho that’s a good better than the non-profit pony. Yeah, radio pony Radio Way could let the pony die. I send the money to a farm in the form of a glue factory farm in Vermont. That boy got quickly. Thank you. Thanks a lot. I guess it’s, uh it’s gratifying. It’s just a love affair. I just love doing the show and all the work. Uh, it doesn’t matter, cause I know that, uh, we’re helping non-profits helping small and midsize shops who I always have in mind as I’m as I’m doing it. That’s the God and, Scott, you gotta be in a niche. You gotta be loyal to your listeners that gotta get values value to listeners. Otherwise, right, they’re going to be Oh, there’s Ah, major correlation between that and being a musician, you got to know who your audience is Without that, it’s very, very difficult, right? And provide content specifically for them. And don’t drift off into other places and provide, like something else just cause you want to so right, like you don’t have a sudden play like, you know, the hokey pokey Or do you want me? And I am playing kids music in later? Well, I guess the parallel only goes so far. There’s there’s there’s a balance to be struck for sure, but, uh, we got off the mood strikes. We got somebody on the phone who is very committed to like exactly what we’re talking about. Staying true to mission, not veering. And that is an example. Ward our social media and technology contributors. Do-it-yourself Award. How are you? I’m doing great. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Were you able to hear our conversation while you’re on hold. There. I You did. So we were just talking about staying true to mission, right? I mean, you’re about that. Yeah. And I was reflecting on, you know, the whole, like, 50 episodes a year, All the work that you do to make sure that you have tops and people to join the show and all of those things And how many times we’ve been on. And I wanted to make a joke, but I didn’t make it because I felt like, maybe I maybe I should sensor that joke. But I was Yeah. How is there anything to say anymore? But you always find new things to talk about. And I think that’s to your credit. Thank you very much. You help? You’ve been contributing a long, long time on social media and technology. Your first show with us was, um it was July 13th 2012. The 100 show. Exactly. Right. Um, And at that time, with the 100 show, we had 1000 listeners. So yeah, so two years into this thing. So we started in July 2010 July 2012. Your first show, 100 listeners. I’m sorry 100 shows. We were celebrating having 1000 listeners, and now we’re over 13,000. Wow, that’s pretty cool. I think that’s you know, that’s that’s great. Thanks pretty good. 13,000. Pretty good. 13,000% growth. Is it 15%? I don’t know. 13,000% better. It’s more than 13% stock in that 50% of thousands. 130. It’s 13,000% growth 1000 times. This is not the math show, right? 15,000% growth is 13,007. We got it sends a music show non-profits fun stuff, no matter what’s going on it and 10 dot org’s You know, I love non-profit. You know, I love intent. I’m not supposed to say no. Never What? Uh, what’s going on in time going on while we have, um, 20 ntcdinosaur action proposals just opened. So people are submitting their ideas. And this year, for the first time, we have moved the ignite applications intothe same sessions, a mission timeline. So in the past, ignites which are a type of presentation with five minutes exactly, and you have 20 sign and the slides auto advance every 15 seconds, and they are hosted up on the main stage as one of the general sessions in the morning. In the past, applications to be one of those people opened Ah lot later in the year after registration was already open, they were open in, like, November and December. Okay, but this year we decided to do it all at the same time. So what types of conversations or topics? They want a surface of the conference. They you know, they could do that a little bit more holistically. So, uh, sessions in-kind of more standard breakout format as well as the main stage content, are all open for submissions. Right? Cool. And this is all for really big. This is offer. Then this is all for 20 and T c. Right? Next. Give us the dates for 20. Sure. 20 ntcdinosaur be in Baltimore, Maryland, which we’ve never been to before. I mean, people I’m familiar with the conference has never been hosted in Baltimore, and we will be there march 24th through 26. Okay, Okay. Cool. So submissions air open you goto and 10 dot Or if you want to submit, it’s a very, very good conference. Non-profit radio has been there, I think, half a dozen times. Maybe I’m exaggerating. Maybe it’s only five, but always on the exhibit floor, capturing the brilliant speakers that that a subset of the brilliant speakers that in 10 has and expanding their reach and expanding the reach of the conference. I love doing it, You know I do. Amy, don’t You know I love it. We lose any sample word? Well, trust me, she knows She knows that I love it every step forward. No, no more. Okay, well, I’ll pretend that you may be speaking. Well, it’s a great conference, and everyone should go. And it’s in Baltimore. Yes. And, uh, that’s two of us. Who, speaking for Amy. Amy, thank you very much for calling. And thank you for being ah, contributor for so many years from since the 100 show. Thanks. Thanks so much, Aimee. Simple work. She’s great. Um, let’s I want to welcome one of our new sponsors. Um, and that is, uh, Cougar Mountain Cuckoo Mountain software. They do accounting software for non-profits, the Denali fundez your complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profits. They have a free 60 day trial and you can find that a tony dot m a slash cougar Mountain. Don’t you talk pretty, tony dot m a slash cougar mountain for your free 60 day trial of the Denali Fund. Your complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profit. Very excited to hear about it And brand new brand new sponsor. Because because non-profits need things to be more, you know, simple and specific. And Taylor to them agree. Not using QuickBooks, which is designed which is made for corporate and individual and, ah, trying to tailor it to a non-profit. It doesn’t doesn’t work because you got your fund accounting problems, which right? Denali farmer takes takes care of you. Come on to talk about, uh, no, but but he’s the marketing manager. Brian. Brian. Brian blessed our marketing manager who have been working with Welcome, Brian. Glad to have you. Thank you. Thank you for joining. Not properly with a sponsor. Thank you, Brian. And thank you. Cougar Mountain software. Um, you had, you know, a little something going on. You want to talk about a little history? I do. Well, Mr Ethan, will you know, Tony, your show really is historic to may that this is the 450th show. As we discussed earlier in our discussion about how podcasts are, really, you know, it’s just hard to produce these podcasts and keep them going. So so kudos to you for doing this historical show. So today, in honor of that, as you enter the history books, I have a little game for us, a little door just a little today in history thing. So the 1st 1 I want to mention is that and and you asked me when I say that I would do this well, that clears air non-profit angle to it. So I’m gonna try to do my best to Time non-profits to these as much as possible. So in 17 75 the office that would later become the United States Post Office Department was established by the second Continental Congress. Benjamin Franklin, Pennsylvania was the first postmaster general now way have a musical clue for you on the state. In 17 88 a certain state became the first actually became ratified as state in the United States. The 11 state. Which day was it? We have a musical clue wrote down. Try it again. Scott, New York, New York so that non-profit Italian is, Of course, that’s the home of non-profit radio. Oh, that’s tenuous. Oh, my goodness. That’s cool. What? You’re clever. Well, and for the post office one, I was gonna say the tie in is how much not how much mail have non-profits sent over the years through the U. S. Postal Service? Thanks to Benjamin Franklin Weaken, send nice mailers to people to raise money. Clever mailers, envelopes post towards all that, All that. So on this day in 1945 the Labour Party one the United Kingdom General election by a landslide and that removed Winston Churchill from power on this day, the Labour Party. One serious. Winston Churchill was a Tory. I guess I should have done that. But, um yes, of the Labour Party came into power today. So in 1947 Harry Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947 creating the C I A, the Department of Defense, the United States Air Force, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the United States National Security Council. And I do not have a non-profit tie into that. But you know, that’s great. It’s okay. That’s important. Are we Don’t you cut me off because I got a whole thing here. I know. We got it. We got a call her. We have a call or ever sponsored me. Can we come back to our way? I can’t. I don’t want to keep promises. I can’t keep way. Way will try. Okay, you duitz doom. How are you? Hey, Tony. Good. Very good. Very good. How you doing in there? I’m sorry. Thank you very much. Are you in Madison, Wisconsin? Yes, I am. Okay. Of course I’m grateful to you because, uh, you’ve been a guest on the show a bunch of times. In fact, your your first time on the show keeping with the history theme that Claire set up for us. Mystery theme That clears that up for us. Ah, was September 12 2014. So five years ago, almost five years and you’ve been on you’ve been on a couple times. And I’m also, of course, grateful for, uh, for Wagner. C p. A sponsorship. It’s been a couple of years now, and I’m grateful for that. That’s awesome. Yeah. They’ve been with us a couple of years waiting to cps dot com. What’s, um What’s what’s Wagner looking at for non-profits this summer? First of all, we’re really be supporting your show. And I would like to thank you for your dedication again. Um, for nine years now and helping out the other 95% of the pregnancy. The eighties. They were looking at you a constant standard. All the very, very fighting. Okay, Yeah. Don’t go into detail on you. Can’t be gonna be different going forward. It’s gonna be more challenging. And we’re helping our clients kind of, like navigate through the complexity that giving them some implementation plan. Okay. And wedding has a bunch of webinars they’re doing this summer. I’ve been a summer on the fall. I’ve been promoting them on the show. So you’ve got a ramped up Your free resource is for non-profits. Yeah, we started thing, baby nurse. I get like, two years ago now and we plan on doing a lot more and abila xero pompel latto part that other other resource is we’re creating for our clients again. We work with a lot of nonprofit organizations and we understand that they enough resource is sometimes like the other 5% provide that. Yes, Thank you like the other 5%. Thank you very much. Um, eat. We have to go. But I want to thank you again. Thank you for the sponsorship. Thank you for your sharing the value that you do when you’re a guest. And, uh, we’re gonna get it. Be getting you back. I know you and I are working on that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for having their happy contribute. Thanks. Thank you so long. So long. Uh, let’s give away another prize. I don’t give a prize. Another sec a second. Most recent, uh, new insider on this is Thio Alana Cooper, who is the senior director of donor relations at the Jewish Federation of Palm Beach County Beach County, Florida. Alana Cooper is gonna be a bag of your coffee coming your way. Congratulations, Alana. That’s a wonderful non-profit organization. You know what? Your federal I’m very familiar with the Jewish Federation of Palm Beach in that area. Would you, uh, cubine teamviewer quaint? Just with the cure of one more time? Cura Uh, okay. You’re a coffee. Well, I love Kira coffee because it directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. With every cup of cura, you join their efforts to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. They are a direct trade coffee company now with learning opportunities for dental students in the U. S and abroad. Cure a coffee dot com and now I want coffee. Thank you. It’s so hot in here. You sure you want coffee? One iced coffee? It’s the reason the reason I’m here is because the host doesn’t like the air conditioner on really during the during this show. If anyone was wondering because it makes me I don’t care for So that’s why um let’s do the live lister love because we’re, uh, cool like this. Look at this list of listeners. I mean, it’s incredible. Look at this. The sheet of live listeners, um, shot him out. San Francisco, California Middlebury P A. Longview, Texas Tampa, Florida Alexandria, Virginia. I lived My neighbor. You leave is listening. Yeah, sure. Awesome life. Listen, love to Alexandria and Washington D. C. Right by them if he’s listening. Oakland, California monisha, New York, New York. We got multiple New York, New York, as usual. That’s good. Uh, Charlotte, North Carolina. Um, Seoul, Korea. Seoul? Yes. We got Seoul, South Korea, on your haserot. Come So ham Nida, for our Seoul Korea. For our South Korean Romania, Romania is with us. Tulani osili Ramani Iran. Iran. I was I was recently very close to Tehran, Iran. I was nearby. You were living in January. We took a cruise and and for a while my phone gave me a little thing. It said I was in Tehran. All right, let’s take a person. All right. Theron, live. Listen, love out through Tehran. Um s boo. I don’t know if I’m pronouncing right, but the country is Finland. Yes, piela Oh, as proof Inland, Uh, live nation left to you and, uh, also abroad. We got some other broad. Uganda, Kampala, Kampala, Uganda Indeed. Also in South Korea. Got CEO Joo. Were you near Seo? No, but I might go there next year. Okay. Ono Japan and bringing it back. Uh, we got Hell’s kitchen. That’s interesting. Hell’s kitchen. New York shows up differently than New York, New York. That’s funny. A lot of good restaurants Night. They have 10th abila station live listener left to you. And congratulations on showing up separately from all our other New York New York listeners going upstate Watertown, New York is with us. Um, going out a little West West Salem, Ohio, and um oh, Munich, Germany. Gooden, dahna and Freeport, New York Report, Long Island, New York Report New York Right near There you do. I’m pretty far away from Carl koegler York C a R E l E P L A c They’re working on the new train station there. My friend Mary Ann was right by the trains. It is being to get that extra stuff going on. Moscow’s with us. Moscow nasco I don’t and no Russia. And ah said Munich, Germany. All right, so live Mr Love. Awesome. And Sam, if anyone new ones come in, that’s treyz. Would you update us, please? Because I want to shout out everybody falik If there’s all over the place all over the world, it’s incredible. We got multiple multiple continents, indeed. And of course, the podcast pleasantries were multi Continental and were, and even, uh, further reach then the live love is the podcast. Love the podcast. Pleasantries to the outs where the over 13,000 people listening each week on small and midsize non-profits, uh, CEO, executive directors, fundraisers, board members, consultants and other vendors to non-profits. Podcast Pleasantries to you. Thank you for being with us. I hope the show continues to serve. You give you value. I believe it does cause the listener numbers keep growing, so and the feedback I get is positive. So thank you for being with us podcast, especially board members like you. Dorothy Hamill. Today’s her birthday. Today’s Dorothy Hamill’s birthday. What is your boardmember? She is a boardmember or a recent boardmember of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra. How do you know all this? But well, because I researched the whole bit that I was going to do today. So I know your birthday’s today and everything that happened today in history. So I’ve got a musical clue from Scott here. There’s a the original sitcom anarchist, the original sitcom actresses Birthday today. Who is it? Close. It’s Ethel’s birthday. Vivian Vance Vance and she was married to William Frawley know they were well on the show. They hated each other in real life. They hated each other. It’s a legend that was Fred. Fred and Ethel never even spoke off. Hated each other. You got one more. You got another history thing, another history things. So there’s there’s another. It’s another musical clue And someone’s birthday today. What’s the band? Sam knows Rolling Stones today is Mick Jagger’s birthday. Uh, that sounds better on the guitar by, and I do not have, like, a non-profit link to Mick Jagger. Actually, I found that I think he’s kind of not that charitable that he spends a lot of time trying to hide his body from the But he’s born July 20,000 fans she shares a birthday with Britt said non-profit really are all right. Hyre s Let’s, uh, there’s another Tony martignetti in the studio here. Oh, step up. Step up to Scott’s Mike, would you Come on. Come on, Come on. You’re gonna be on a podcast. Yes, I’m gonna like there’s another Tony most second. There’s a second Tony martignetti here. I just want a little shout from better looking. Thank you. Thank you. Come a little closer. That every proud of my son on the work he’s doing for nonprofit organizations goblets and and thank you for your faithfulness. Appreciate it. Thank you, Dad. Thank you. That’s so sweet. And after the show, I’m gonna explain to Dad what a podcast is. He’s got to start his own podcast. Uh, all right, well, uh, Scott, I wanted to Ah, what you do? Another song you got? You got a world world premiere. Yeah. Uh, they said earlier on the show. I wrote this this morning, which is half true. Um, I have had a part of this song running through my head for the better part of, ah month. And then I wrote a quick, rough draft Ah, a couple of weeks ago, and then I wasn’t quite sure where the music was gone, and I put it aside. And this morning I had about 15 minutes, and I was like, Let’s just let’s just finish this song, right? You know, sometimes songs spring songs are like, Sometimes it’s like pulling teeth. And sometimes it’s like cooking breakfast. And, uh, this one’s been a little of each make on fits and starts. So what is it? Uh, I have a number of ah, All right. World release a cz yet? Untitled. Yeah, I think I got a couple possible titles. Ilsen Okay, maybe we’ll challenge. Maybe we’ll challenge listeners to come up with a title for Scott Stein. So listen closely. And, uh, at the end at the end, we’ll tell you how you can reach Scott with your title suggestion. Great. Great. All right. How does this go again? I am only half joking now. That’s too all right. Uh, Getsem inside information. Someone’s me a copy of the master plan. Sources were dependable, but they’re in a language I don’t understand. You know what? I’ve always been a sin for as long as I can remember. Always skipping past super landings. Always looking for that snow in September. Good. The way you play the song. Always someone since long Booth. Some days your own busy Some days you can’t get a damn thing done. Some days you get the car key. Some days it’s the keys to the king. Sometimes the changing of the guard, professor than changing of Caesar way Sometimes the people that you love way very good reason. Wait. I once was beginning. Wait, don’t just watch. You know, watching you know. All right, Scott, that Claire was smiling. Way no, Scotty. So talented. He’s right here. And this is great. Absolutely often do have, like this really good artist right in front of you Sing a song he just wrote first here. I think my favorite part was hit the last court, and there was a truck or something going by honking his horn. I’m saying I don’t like you understand? Like those of you who are listening. I’m on a keyboard. I’m not on a piano, so I’m going like this. Think didn’t just go out. Oh, what did I hit? A wrong note. I think I was right. It’s got if if people do wantto well, give you feedback and or maybe even give you a suggested title, How did they reach you? Uh, on social media on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. I met Scott Stein music on my wife’s a Scott Stein music dot com where you get to come out to bar chord in Brooklyn on Monday. And there’s my little plugs. There are New York, New York and Hell’s Kitchen listeners. Absolutely. Um, when else do you play in New York? Give us a little, um right now I’m actually just getting back into playing gigs. Uh, I’m just getting back into the into the map. for a while. Um, I took a little hiatus. My wife and I had a baby in October. Maybe boy and early October. What? October, uh, cover nine. Nice. Very nice. And thank you. So s so. I took a little time off from that. And as could imagine, my spare time is non existent these days. So it’s every second is precious these days. And, er eso I’m doing I’m doing this show tomorrow and I’m doing another one back-up Bark or another song Writers in the round on August 19th of things. The date’s on Monday evening and then hopefully more on the fall once I’m sleeping a little. Congratulations. Awesome. Thank you. We got we got another new sponsor on the phone. Peter panepento. How are you? I’m doing great. How are you? Very well, thank you. Peter panepento is with turn to communications, and they’re also a brand new sponsor of non-profit radio. So I thank you very much for that, Peter. Yeah, Thank you. Unfortunately, I didn’t bring my keyboard or my singing voice quite entertaining. No, no, you’re Scott Scott is up to the company. Would have been up to your competition too. So uh, what’s turned to tell us? You know, I’m telling listeners 32nd bursts, but you could take 45 seconds and tell us what turned to is about. Sure. So turn to is a consulting company. We provide PR and communications and marketing support, too. Non-profits and foundations. And it stems from my experience in the non-profit and foundation world. I was an editor or a number of years, the Chronicle philanthropy, and actually had a co host a podcast with you way back when Tony and Thea to see you’re still going so strong after all these years. And we’re really adept at hoping translate the messages that, um that non-profits hell thio to their key audiences and making sure that we’re doing it in a way that really resonates with them and help them make a bigger impact with their work. And, of course, their turn hyphen too dot Co ceo. Um, Peter, you were You were first on this show. Now I was on. I was on your show when you were ah, doing a podcast for The Chronicle. We’re not sure who was first, but I I know. I don’t know. I don’t know if you could look back in your archive, but I look back to the non-profit radio archive and you were first on non-profit radio on August 13th 2010. That was our that was our second month. So you are also very early newcomer. Yes, we were. Yeah, we were. We were blazing new trails back then, Tony, and it’s really amazing how much podcasting and digital radio has has grown up since then. It’s, uh it’s really been been really cool to have been on the ground floor of things like podcasting in social media and and webinars and everything else that we were doing at the Chronicle back in-kind of the explosion of the Internet. And and it’s been really, really cool. You you started out as as one of the, uh, as one of the staple podcasters for The Chronicle back when we were when I was there, too, and, um, hard to believe it’s almost 10 years now that’s making me feel quite old. It is. Uh, you’re referring. I think Thio fund-raising fundamentals which you produce. We collaborated on that. Peter and I would collaborate. It was it was a chronicle chronicle podcast, and I was on that I did a e-giving one. You were on fund-raising fundez forgot. Thank you. Yes, that’s right. That was That was that was a different format with 10 minutes. We were people. We were trying to keep those, like, 10 12 minutes. Max, Right? Right. Yes. And the thinking was we needed to keep it short for people to want to listen to us for tea, get to the end that way. Wanted to keep it short and tight. And you’ve really been ableto build a really engaging, thoughtful, long format program. And the fact that you do it so consistently is is really a testament Thio your skillet this but also the amount of work. You’re putting it really incredible. Thanks a lot, Peter. And, uh And who would have thought when you were a guest, 2010 our second month that nine years later you’d be your company? You have a company, and you’d be sponsoring non-profit radio knife. I thank you for being our newest sponsor. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. It’s a pleasure to do it. I’m thrilled to be associated with it and hope you have 454 Thank you. Thanks a lot. We’ll be talking. Thanks a lot, Peter. So long. All right. Thank you. Bye. We got Maria Semple online. Maria Semple. How are you? I’m doing very well. Thanks. How are you? Awesome. Thank you for calling. Maria. Simple That she’s the Prospect Finder. She’s at Maria Simple. She’s the You’ll find the site prospect finder dot com No, wait. I messed that up. You know the prospect finder dot com The prospect finder dot com All right. To the source. And she’s at Maria. Simple. Did I get that right? That’s right. After all these years, you would think I would know. Yes. All right. How are you, Maria? Simple. I’m doing very well today. Thank you. Okay. And we’re well here, too. Is having a great time there? Yes, we are. 4/50 anniversary shows were always cool. Absolutely. Um, congratulations. You got what you got going on for your summer. Ah, well, I am calling you today from the beautiful downtown waterfront in Beaufort, North Carolina. Uh, yes, yes. Uh, can I stay here? The weather finally broke. We don’t have the crazy humidity today, so all is good. Are you on your boat. Wonderful. Wonderful. I am effort. That’s awesome. Um, okay. Uh, so I wanted to congratulate Scott as well. Real quick. I heard that he had a baby. I love the new song. It’s a good life. I have a feeling that maybe, uh, did the baby get some inspiration to that? That song, perhaps. I love it. Yeah, you may have. May have uncovered something in there. Yeah, that’s certainly at the forefront of, like everything I do. Right? Oh, thank you. Yeah. Maria, your first show with us was August 12th 2011. So you’re You’re a newcomer. You’ve only been on eight years. You’re a newcomer. Oh, boy. Don’t hold that against nine years. I think it’s pretty. That’s quite the legacy. My nose was cool, but she’s been gone eight of nine years. 9 8/9 What’s that? That’s a lot of divide. A nine latto percent that? Yeah, that’s a long time. So the Prospect Finder and the first thing we talked about was linked in for prospect research. That was your first subject with my like Clinton linked in. Yeah, it did for prospectuses. Right there. It’s bonified duvette duvette no duitz still talking about that today? Yes. So what’s your latest? Yeah, what’s the latest thing we should know about Lincoln and Prospect finding? Um Well, you can definitely do an awful lot still with the advanced search feature for free. And, um, you know, some folks deciding to take advantage of a free month of premium Thio get the, you know, the additional search fields and so forth. So certainly something to think about. I love Lincoln. Great. Yeah. Yeah, because after all these years of, like, sort of collecting people, it’s like this awesome roll index that keeps updating itself, and you never know. You might find I have. I’ve gotten a lot of work from lugthart valuable. Yeah, well, people will, like, sort of follow me on Lincoln for a while, then refer me to someone and mostly biggest. They know me from linked it not from in person, so it’s kind of interesting. Yeah. Okay. Glad it’s working for you. Reassemble. And so you feel like the free premium is worth checking out, Maria? Uh, definitely. Yeah. Why not? I mean, if you could do something for free for 30 days, why not? Um, definitely, But have a plan. I have a plan to use it and implement it well and do something with all of the great data that you’re gonna uncover. Okay, Cool. Thank you. Maria Semple. I got, uh we have to move on to another prize. But thank you so much for calling Maria. And thank you. Thanks, Maria. Thanks for all your years. Contributing 88 years. Thank you so much. Congratulations. Thank you. I want to give away another prize. We said it was like two minutes left in the hole. The hole in the whole shebang here, this’ll one is gonna be This is a book. It’s gonna be a book from the I’ll tell you what it’s going to be. Peter panepento. His book. Yes. It’s going to Peter’s book. All kinds of great information on marketing, communications and getting your message across and not using jargon. Exactly. It’s modern media relations for non-profits, which he co authored. He cooperated with the Internet car because you could be your own. Oh, I know into it. I think I might not think I’m in that book. Really? Yes, but no. I think I think I was interviewed for that book. actually now that because it’s Internet. And that was my grandmother’s name in the book. There was, Dad. Thanks, Peter. Thanks to put me in the book, So, yes, but yet because now I think these days you could be your own media mogul. You don’t have to rely on the traditional media. You can. You can be your own media mogul. Well, Barry, Steven’s gonna learn that he’s gonna get the book. Mayberry R. Stevens. He’s president of the Northeast Louisiana Arts Council. Barry Stevens with a V, not a ph. President. Northeast Louisiana Arts Council. Peter panepento book is gonna be coming to you, Barry. And, uh, we got a pretty much wrap it up. Scott Stein. So much. Thanks so much, Scott. Hey. My pleasure. Glad you guys are doing this practically in my backyard. Well, not quite. I’m in Brooklyn now, but we were in my I don’t have come to North Carolina or DC to do it right here in New York City. And the next time we all get together, which show is it gonna be? It’s gonna be the 500. Uh, summer. We’re going to get a celebrity to come in. I gotta work on that. I’m gonna find us a celebrity to come into the studio. Don’t look at me. I think should neo-sage No, you’re a celebrity. I made another kind of celebrity. I have someone in mind, I think. Claire, thank you so much for co hosting. Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me here was wonderful. Thank you so much. Happy for 50th. Thank you. Next week. Inconceivable That metric does not mean what you think it means. Plus Google analytics and Google optimize If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers Wagner c p a gps dot com weinger cps dot com By Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial Also sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn to dot CO. That’s turn hyphen, T w o dot Co and for the 450th show sponsored by Cure a coffee connecting coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest finest organic coffee beans. Cura coffee dot com Don’t you talk pretty? Thanks. Thanks, everybody. Thank you so much for being with us for the 450th show. The ninth anniversary non-profit Radio Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I say that every single week Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez who did are live tweeting today. Thank you very much, Susan. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and I say this every week. Do this Music is by Scott Stein, Brooklyn, New York, with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out on Be great! You’re listening to the talking alternate network You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time And listen for new ideas on my show Beyond potential Live life Your Way on talk radio dot N Y c on the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Fridays 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant. Our Awakening Humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. Do you love, or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history. It’s vibe. It’s field and its energy tune and live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio dahna, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network.

Nonprofit Radio’s 450th Show

On July 26th it’s our 9th anniversary and 450th show! We’ve got giveaways. To win, tweet about our 450th using #NonprofitRadio. Watch to learn how to win. I’ll also welcome new sponsors Cougar Mountain Software and Turn Two Communications. 

We’ll stream on Facebook Live. Friday, July 26th, 1-2pm eastern. I hope you’ll join us! 

Nonprofit Radio for February 22, 2019: Flash Fundraising & DEI and Governance II

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Matt Scott: Flash Fundraising
Prepare. Launch. Engage. These are the essential elements for rapidly and successfully fundraising when breaking news intersects with your cause. Matt Scott from CauseMic talks us through.




Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi:DEI & Governance II
Gene Takagi and I wrap up last week’s thoughtful convo on diversity, equity and inclusion, with mechanics for your board: by-laws; recruiting; committees; decision making; oversight metrics; and more. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.




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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit Radio Big Non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure your Asef Feliz. Um, if you blew my mind with the idea that you missed today’s show flash fund-raising Prepare, launch, Engage these air the essential elements for rapidly and successfully fund-raising when breaking news intersects with your cause. Matt Scott from Cause Mike talks us through and d I and governance to Jean Takagi and I wrap up last week’s thoughtful conversation on diversity, equity and inclusion with mechanics for your board by-laws recruiting committee’s decision making oversight metrics. He’s our legal contributor and principle of Neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group attorneys take to act blue. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS guiding you Beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four, four nine nine nine Here is Matt Scott with Flash fund-raising Matt Scott is CEO of Cause Mike and an industry leading Non-profit fundraiser. He helped Team Rubicon scale from two hundred fifty thousand dollars in annual revenue in two thousand eleven to thirty million dollars in two thousand seventeen twenty seventeen. He’s led the company to help a diverse range of non-profits raise millions of dollars online, including Movember Volunteers of America and the Humane Society. He’s at Matt B. B. A, and the company is at cause Mike Crew and cause. Mike dot com Matt Scott Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me really appreciate it. Pleasure, Pleasure. We’re gonna talk about flash fund-raising. And so I presume that the first thing Teo need to have in place is preparation so that you know, like what kinds of topics and issues are going to cause you tow burst into this flash Yeah, absolutely. So we kind of defined flash fund-raising as any time bound campaign, meaning it’s not going to be an evergreen campaign they’ve got running all the time. But to your point, Tony, it’s really rooted in in this notion of what kind of big moment they’re related to. The impact of your non-profit has in the world is newsworthy. Right? So how do you leverage or capitalize on those newsworthy moments? They relate to your organisation in order to raise funds and awareness. And Dr supporters Okay, so we really kind of finding is that Yeah. And, you know, if something relates to your mission in the news on and you are silent, you know, then I think you risk becoming irrelevant. Yeah, that’s exactly right. I mean, whether you were somebody like our client u s A for UNHCR working with, you know, refugee communities all around the world, or you’re someone like Mercy Corps who we work with. Who could capitalize on, uh, you know, the hurricane in Puerto Rico or the earthquake. And, Paul, you really gotta look for opportunities to be relevant in the news cycle. It’s an opportunity for you, Really, You know, both get your brand out there, but also to acquire new supporters. How How suddenly do you need to be ableto activate when we’re going to get to the preparation? Were not act activation yet launching yet. But I mean, how how quickly do you need to be ready to go? Yeah. I mean, I think it’s really important that that you’ve got the systems and process and method in place in order to capitalize on a news cycle within those first twelve to twenty four hours. I mean, if you take something like Hurricane Hardy Urmila Maria last year and you look a, you know, just really what does that cycle look like? It’s within the first twenty four to forty eight hours where the news is mace drawn to it. And that’s when you’ve got the greatest opportunity, too. Galvanize your base of supporters as well as engaged new supporters. I would say you need to move quickly within the first twenty four hours on the news cycle. In order, Teo really kind of be relevant. And then so I guess tangential to this because we’re talking about fund-raising. But you also want to have a communications plan in place so that you can activate quickly. Journalists. You want to be in touch with bloggers, other influence leaders influencers that you want to be in touch with when again when you know as you’re saying, something hits the news. So you can you can activate quickly on the communication side. Not, you know, not fund-raising related, but trying to get out to the media. Bloggers fear, etcetera. Exactly. I think of kind of two approaches to the communications plan, and both of them you absolutely had on in the head are all about being prepared. The first one is having a list of media outlets in building a relationship with those media outlets and people there prior to master over some news moment, right? So that they know that you’re a trusted source. You don’t want to use that news moment as a as a chance to reach out to them cold. You really kind of want to build that relationship in advance. Also, you want to think about how do you make it as easy as possible for you to be featured as a subject matter expert in the event of a newsworthy event? How are you going to make. It is easiest possible for them to ask you critical questions or to provide context of how your organization is driving impact to solve whatever problem it is that you’re facing. The second piece of it is really comes down to having a multi-channel communications plan, and this is a lot more in the work, you know, in the control of the non-profit. So that includes everything from, you know, SMS. Mmm. So text messaging, chap pot, email, marketing, social media, paid ad paid search How do you develop like a full multi-channel communications plan that ultimately has a single narrative and across all of those channels, but the actual messages slightly different, unique to those channel requirement. Yeah, excellent. Excellent. And listeners you’ll remember had Peter panepento on, and I think it was December and around his book, which I can remember the name of. But we talked all about communications plan and a public relations and a media strategy. Take back public relations. That’s not quite right having a media strategy. And we did talk about what what Matt is talking about, you know, having in place relationships and a plan in advance. So if you want to hear a flower on on a media strategy, including flash moments, go to tony martignetti dot com and just search Peter panepento and that that show will come up. It was a pressure was last December, or was it was November. Okay, so, Matt, so thanks for that. Well, digression on communications. I put you on the spot because that’s not your not your expertise. But thanks for thanks for weighing. And that was that was valuable. Um, all right, so let’s go back to strictly the fund-raising. And what what technology do you need to have in place in advance? Yeah, that’s a great question. So first and foremost, you need I make sure that you have a sierra. Some of our favorite theorems, their sales force for kind of some other organizations that wanted fund-raising solution. All in one, there’s Sierra something like fund-raising straight AA lot of more established organizations. They’re using products like, uh, like blackbaud, Right. But at the end of the day, you wantto want a place where you can collect dahna information as those donations start to come in. Beyond that, you also need to think about like, the top of funnel. So from acquisition, how are you really keeping track of which acquisition channels are working? So if you put out those paid Searcher paid social ads, how can you ensure that you’re seeing return on investment? You need a way to capture thie email address at the very least of the supporter or some form of communication, like a phone number, so we can text you also, of course, need a way to collect donations. So some of our favorite platforms for that include give lively, which is entirely free for non-profits pretty much disrupting the space right now. Getting integrate seamlessly with sales for you also got stuff like classy or fund-raising, both excellent classrooms and innovative sales lorts. And so you want to have a way to kind of take those donations right? But you also want to have an email service provider in place and, increasingly, more and more our clients. They’re seeing a lot of success around text messages and using SMS and Chapa. So we think it’s really important that you also have, you know, leverage a platform like Twill Leo, which you know is an amazing product that is near free for non-profits on and allows you to send one on one SMS and mmm messages to your constituents. So I think in terms of overall, you need a way to acquire and track your acquisition channels. You need to see our AMAH place deposits that in for me, Agent, you need to make sure that you have a way to process donations. Then you gotta have on the communication side, at the very least, a stronger but no service provider as well as an ability to text message your your constituents. I say those are the fundamental elements. Of course, there’s a lot of other a lot of other things that can go into a great text back, But those were really the fundamental Okay, we’re gonna take our first break. Matt. When we come back, I’m gonna, uh, tease out something that you sort of suggested. You didn’t say it, but I just sort of blackbaud razor’s edge. I wonder if those air getting antiquated even though they’re so huge. I mean that not those that razor’s edge product. So we’re going to die aggressive labbate. So give thought to that You got, like, thirty seconds and then I’m going to be on spot again pursuant their newest free E book, The Art of First Impressions. It’s all about donor-centric track new donors making it You need to make that smashing hit first impression. That’s what this is about. The book. It’s got six Guiding principles of Ineffective acquisition strategy. How to Identify your Unique value. Plus, it’s got some creative tips. You’ll find it at the landing. Paid the listener landing page tony dot m a slash pursuing capital P for please. All right, now, let’s go back. Tio, Matt Scott and Flash Fund-raising. So So, Matt, it was just like an inflection and you’re in your voice. Is blackbaud becoming, ah, dinosaur, even though it’s enormous in the market? Or Or did I misread your tongue? Uh uh, political answering this question now he’s hitting on you at the end of the day. Here’s what I’ll say. We’ve moved dozens of organizations off blackbaud and on they’ll force. We have yet to move anybody from sales first blackbaud. Um, but at its core, this is this is kind of the fundamental difference on, you know, sales forces really disrupted the space and the main different. You’ve got an open source platform where you’re able to use best in class female service. Best in class. Uh, you know, text messaging or best in class fund-raising. And you’re able to integrate all of those things in an open way where blackbaud forces you really to use their products. So when you think about you know it’s really come down the innovation, it seems like everybody else’s innovating. And and I think that it’s really important that non-profits go down the way where they’re going to have the ability to capitalized on major trends in the market, like the ability to monitor what’s going on on social media or the ability to really robotically track. Uh, you know, your ad spending conversion and as far as I can tell it can’t say that I You know, I’m all knowing about Blackbaud by any means. But I will say that, you know, we’ve been very satisfied with sales force and the ability to recommend that in class solutions to our non-profit clients that integrate into a system seamlessly really interesting. I So I’m boiling it down to open source versus proprietary. Ifyou’re on Blackbaud, you’ve got to use their plug ins. You gotta buy there. You gotta buy their add ons exactly. Right. At the end of the day, they weren’t forced to innovate. They were really the only players in the field of battle, you know, five years ago. And that makes a really big difference. The sales force still have first ten licenses for ah non-profit are free. That’s correct, gang. With the non president’s success, pack the first ten licenses training non-profit or free. Um, And then you’ve got to, like, give lively right there. Entirely free non-profits that integrated sales, They’re seamlessly. You’ve got a lot of non-profit discounts for Tulio. Male chimps. You got a lot of options there that just aren’t available. Okay, Okay. Say, Say what? What? What’s the programme again called on Sales Force sales force. What? Oh, non-profit success back. Okay, we’re given unpaid, unpaid shoutout to sales force because all right, so I think they need it. Yeah, right. They should be our biggest. Have four corporate sponsors. They should be the largest stations. Should be owning this. No owning this show. No, I own the show. It’s like a carry away. It’s not Salesforce non-profit radio, but yeah, they OK, I agree. All right, So I heard you. I heard you’re right. I read you. Right. I’m glad. Okay. Um, so we’re still in the preparation stage. You’ve got something called a campaign kit. What? What is this? We’re still in preparation. Yeah. Yeah. So really help our fine set up in advance, right? Like, what is that Multi-channel communications plan Look like? You need to make sure we have clearly defined brand guidelines. So what is your voice? What is your tone with style? Uh, what do you want to get out there? It’s really important. We start going across all these different channels because you want people to know, to be familiar with your brand. You want them, whether it’s the first that they’re hearing about you or their longtime supporters, you don’t want any surprises, right? You want someone to know this is a team Rubicon, This is mercy. This is the Humane Society. I know that because it’s strong. Brand guy won. Second thing you want to do is have a graphic kit teed up. So let’s say that you’re you know, the origin Humane Society. One of the clients. They respond to disasters as well. So if you know that that’s not your primary mission. But it’s something that is a service you provide. So when there’s wild fires, for example, they went down to California and rescued puppies and kittens to what other lies have been displaced. They pre-tax and we set up graphics in advance that had direct needs that showcase the work that they were doing that connected a supporter. The actual impact in the field. You also want to have a list of talking points, right? These are things that anybody on your team can point to, a reference that Khun clearly simply articulate. Exactly the you know what the purpose of your work is. That’s a really key point. And finally you really wantto have kind of the sample emails. Text Pete up. So these air urgent appeal emails are urgent appeals tax that clearly again demonstrates your target audience. The impact that you’re having, the fields and the urgency. It is important the customizes for each and every event. So it’s important that you don’t just think about it. It’s like, Okay, I’m sending out this temple it every time. Uh, but at the same time, there are, you know, there are certain aspects of it that you can pre planned for us. The final piece of, you know, kind of a campaign hit, if you will, is segmentation. We spend a lot of time helping our clients segments, their communications. It’s all about meeting each and every constituents on their preferred platform with their preferred message. There prefer time Dr Conversions to derive from using for the non-profit. So we like to think about donor-centric fund-raising and advocate. And within each of those major profile sites you need to develop a multi-channel communication plan, cleared grand guidelines, great visual, clear messaging on the talking points and lots of appeal. That action. What about making this all or subsets of it available publicly so that you can engage some people who might want to do their own like Peer-to-peer campaign around your your flash campaign, you share these share the stuff publicly. Absolutely. You just hit it on the head, Tony. I mean, you talk about Peer-to-peer fund-raising, right? These are people who are passionate about your cause, but they’re not professional. Fundez. Yeah, right. You have to deliver to them the tools and the messages that will resonate with care with your potential supporters, their friends and family. At the same time, the majority of people who donate to a peer-to-peer fund-raising page are not really in it to support the organization. They’re basically in it to get their friend their family off their back, over off their doors. Kept that at the end of the day, how do you transition somebody from being? I made a donation to Tony, too. I made a donation to U. S. A. For UNHCR. Yeah. Lorts begin to send them through the channels. So that bad because our okay, we’ll spend more time talking about making that transition. Where do you like to share? Where would you like to see clients share these docks for the people who wanted take it to the next level and do their own peer-to-peer fund-raising. Well, my favorite is keep it easy. And I think text messaging is rapidly becoming the way that we distribute fund-raising coaching serious tio clients. Fund-raising techniques like favorite. Okay. First for sharing the tools for people to create their own peer-to-peer campaigns. Oh, yeah. Okay. Where you going? Where’d you like to put the repository of these? The tools the guidelines. You know, the graphics, etcetera of the sample emails that people can use. What? Where do you like to see that stuff put? Yeah, I mean, if you if you’re only gonna host it in one place, having on a site the you own your own website, It is really important. But I actually think it makes a lot more sense to break it off over time and defended out by a tax ID. Now, you know, don’t give it to him all of once, but instead send them little bits of information that they could take action on right away to drag. Okay, so, like so, like, every every twelve hours. You mean in this in this Because this is going well, this is going to be pretty short lived campaign, right? We’re talking about, like, a week or two or something isn’t even that long. Yeah. Yeah, I think two weeks is actually the okay. So how often do you sending out tio thes people who really want to activate the next level do their own peer-to-peer campaigns. How often you sending out new stuff to them by text with? Within the first twenty four hours, You want to send things out like two, three times, and then it tapers off. So then it’s kind of every day for the first week, and then you want you want to kind of spacing out every other day. You can kind of run spring in in three day period. We find that that’s the max that anybody wants to receive multiple communications per day. But that’s where that multi-channel engagement strategy comes into play. Thinking, email, social. A phone call, right? You’re kind of sharing the burning across channels so that they’re interacting with your brandy today on getting kissy stay. But it’s not always delivering the same channel. OK, OK, What about, um, having some influencers like pre positioned that people that you know are going toe? Uh, create that peer-to-peer campaign. Or at least if they’re not going to do a campaign, they’re goingto help you get the message out. But having this in the, you know the prepare a story of proprietary stages, you got ten or twelve key influences, you know, love your mission. You know, if it’s UNHCR, the High Commissioner for Refugees and there’s a refugee crisis, you know they’re going to jump on it, these ten or twelve people? What about having those relationships in place so that they’ll start blogging? They’ll start emailing whatever you know, whatever they do, treating Teo help you build momentum. What about having those relationships in place in advance? Oh, absolutely. That’s the preference. I mean, one of the great examples that comes to mind right off that is Anson Mount, who’s a great celebrity supporter. Team Rubicon, Um, you know, building up that relationship with Anson in advance and then basically empowering him. And so create custom fund-raising Vegas for Anson to be ableto fund-raising for Team Rubicon in the event of a disaster in Texas. So he was, you know, filming a television show for A in Texas, and it was a perfect opportunity for him to reach out his constituents. But all that was set up in advance of the disaster season to be more or less knew that most likely there will be a disaster in Texas, that here they’re setting up that influence relationship, giving him the talking points e-giving in the sample Social media post really empowered into Ray’s about forty eight thousand dollars Teamviewer response to flooding in Houston All right. I’m gonna admit that I’m a pop culture. No, nothing. I don’t know this guy, Anson. Who is that? Uh, it’s amount is, uh well, he’s huge co-branded teamviewer columns of a great celebrity Porter. But even after, um and he was the lead on hell on wheels and he also most recently played in a marvel movie as well on, you know, fair track, maybe. Okay, he’s a great guy. Okay, I’m sure he is, but it’s, uh, you know, I’m not. Yeah. I mean, if you’d said Al Pacino, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have asked you. Who is that? You know, So I got a bunch of clients who were looking for that pompel ball club buddies. Support has been even relating. Yes. Uh, okay. Just generational difference. No problem. Okay. All right, So we got we got everything in preparation now its launch time, and we need to know who’s gonna who’s gonna pull the trigger, right? Yeah, we having a clearly defined who Didn’t your maker go? No, go critical because, like, we already talked about first twenty four hours Really important. So we recommend Ma Bargain was down with too much process. It’s important for you really have, uh, you know, check the balance is in terms of copy, make sure the things that spell correctly that you’re not speaking or offer ends, but that decision to go or no go she’s really lead with a single person. So they’re they’re given the information that says we feel like for all intensive purposes, with traffic, it’s really high, you know, highly spoke about in the media. Let go, or we feel like that. If we were to activate right now, we wouldn’t really necessarily be included in on the conversation. We’re not going to get a lot of media. It could get a lot of in front of a lot of supporters then. Probably not going. Why would you feel the ladder? What would lead you to conclude? To not not activate? Yeah, I mean, well, let’s take you could be popular. That disaster response here. Let’s take hurting. Hold the urn and Maria write one hit after another. You have to begin to really think about Donorsearch a Teague and the fatigue of of society as a whole. So timing is really important. Hyre segment of your communications. Which media outlets he reached out to, you got to take into account how much you’ve already gone through. You know, your supporter lists and how much you’ve already asked them. So that really influenced things. Like a decision. That’s just one data point. Like what’s the frequency of the storm Who was hit how long ago to be asked for support? Um, how did Airbase responded that those are some of the elements. Okay, Okay, so s so if we decide not to go, then the show’s over. So the conversation over. So let’s go the other way. Now, let’s decide that way. Are gonna we’re gonna launch. Um what? What? What’s What’s first thing we need to do, the CEO or whoever the decision maker is, has said yes, she’s approved. Where do we go now? Yes, this is where if you have a fund-raising tool like fund-raising classic, give lively. You got that? Get that fund-raising page set up right away. Home and because you already have, you know, kind of prefect communications plan that we talked about. You begin to activate that. So you get those emails in place, you begin to send out, start with the channels that are really busy. So text messaging doesn’t take long. Social media doesn’t take wrong. And depending on what your brand you know, look, it feels like it’s important not to miss good for great meaning. People want to see what’s going on behind the scenes. So if you’re responding to disasters and example and you’re in the planning phase and you’re really getting ready for a response that you don’t get have powerful visuals of light the people affected by Thorne it’s important to show that behind the scenes wolf because it’s raw, It’s interesting and it’s easy to get out. So I would say, Start with channels that are really easy to just share information with and then work your way towards the channels that are more work, like email, where you’ve got a draft more more. Give me some examples of that behind the scenes early on. I guess that’s like first twelve hours or so content. Like what? Yeah, so examples might include, uh, your team monitoring storm. Or they might include in from, you know, meeting time that you’re preparing or getting your go bags around here. Any equipment you need to get out the door. What’s happening? Place dramatically behind the scenes. In the case of refugees like, you’ve got terms of people working around the clock trying to find out more information from the field so that the field team can make informed decisions. All that kind of content is interesting and engaging, and it can just be shot on a smartphone, right? Just simple. There are updates. Maybe it’s somebody from your field team or your program. He’s literally just shooting a thirty second video that you know is framed. Well, well lit light in your face horizontally shot. Just quick tips on how to make them look better without spending a lot of money. But it’s just someone standing there saying, like, Look, this is These are the actions that were taking right now, and it’s thanks to the generous support of supporters like you, where we’re looking for people who financially contribute were dedicated to solving this crisis. This is what we’re doing Those air, like really, really impactful communications. Yeah, people do like, behind the scenes, absolutely that you’re drawing them into the crisis before as it’s unfolding to you that you’re trying to learn more, you know, you’re keeping them informed. I mean, if you’re going to fund-raising around a crisis or an incident, Um you Ah, yeah. I mean, you want to draw them in and you said something that really struck me. Please, when you when you’re doing quick video, please. Please hold. Hold the phone horizontally, not vertically. Act can’t stand those little frames. You get a little one inch by one inch frames you get when it’s vertical, for God sake. Okay, this is, uh we’re running a little long, so, um, let’s let’s go to engagement. So we’ve already We’ve already launched. We got our You’ve already talked about SMS and M M s and having chatbots replaced. Let’s move to engagement now. Yes, this is really the most the most important part, right. Uh, be your authentic self. So first and foremost, we want to express gratitude in a compelling and interesting, unique way. I highly recommend using a tool called can written. Um, this is one of our favorite tools for clients and integrate seamlessly with sales for us. It allows you to literally send and written cards by a robot, um, to each and every one of your supporters and comic, We actually have, like, a great pricing deal with them. So Chan, this plug there, but you’ve been retired there, But anyway, I think starting with a few card is really important. Is that going to help you stand out? The second thing you want to do is you want to send somebody through a new supporter. Welcome. Serious. And this is different, depending on whether they made a one time gift a recurring gift. But the serious should really be focused on first and foremost, expressing gratitude and immediately shifting toward the impact that they’re having in the field. Yeah, sure. Right. We like to talk about it. OK, that I’m going to give you give you an extra minute. Let’s go toe up. Great. Let’s goto let’s jump to upgrading. You touched on it earlier. You want to move these these one time donors to something more? You got a minute? I’m holding you to it. Yeah, so basically up their strategy is if you’ve got a one time donor-centric heidtke percent most e-giving difficult to do in a minute. But I would say Send them through a multi-channel supporter. Welcome serious. Quantify that impact present to them opportunities upgrade to a mostly get. To be honest, you can come to cosmic dot com on download our free guide on how to build a month e-giving program in ninety days. And I think that’s all I could do in a minute. Okay, that’s all right. Okay, so But it’s important to try to move These donors passed the incident that you were flash fund-raising for. Okay. Sametz got CEO of Cause Mike. You’ll find him at Matt b B a. And the company is at cause Mike Crew and cause mike dot com Where you could go for the resource is Matt just mentioned that Scott. Thank you very, very much. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. We need to take a break. Wittner, CPS. They have a new archive. Webinar for you. It’s accounting update. What has changed that? Wagner knows intimately, and you just need to know the basics off. That’s what they’re going to cover for. You. You don’t want to know the bait. You don’t want to know the intimacy of it. You just need the basics. For instance, new requirements for financial statements. You might not like to know a little about that, all right, and there’s other stuff that they cover in this accounting. Update. Webinar Go to Wagner cps dot com. Click Resource is then webinars to view the archive. Hey, it’s time now for Tony’s take Do I’m back Live ActBlue. Yes, ActBlue. I’m very grateful to them. They are non-profit Radios Sponsor, Premier, sponsor AT and TC Thie twenty nineteen Non-profit Technology conference. It’s March thirteen to fifteen in Portland, Oregon. P D. X. We are in a booth together. Boots five o eight and five ten. I’ll be doing tons of interviews for the show, Of course, that will be using over the ensuing months, and ActBlue will talk. Be talking to folks about the value of small dollar donations. You know them for political fund-raising Grassroots fund-raising three billion dollars worth over three billion dollars worth. Think about them for your non-profit fund-raising getting small dollar donations into the mix. That’s what they’ll be talking about. Um, they have a giveaway they have on site training. Giveaway on site. Did I say on site training giveaway that we’ll be doing at the booth? So come see us. I’ll be doing lots of interviews. Come say hello. If you’re at ntcdinosaur course, come buy boots five o eight five ten. Say hello to me. Metoo folks from ActBlue thank them for sponsoring ActBlue at the conference. Ah, and there’s a little more AA plus. Ah, mention of how hard it is to get good video talent on my video at tony martignetti dot com. And we’ll be talking about this more. Nineteen ninety Si, always a pleasure to welcome Gene Gene, the law machine. He’s our man. He’s the managing attorney of Neo, the Non-profit and exempt Organizations Law group in San Francisco. He edits the enormously popular non-profit law blogged dot com. He’s the American Bar Association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer. He’s at G tak G Ta k. What else can I say about him? The best thing I think I most enjoy saying is Welcome back, Jean. Thanks, Tony. It’s great to be back. Yes, after just last week. Um, you were the twenty sixteen. You know, you realize now that that American Bar Association Outstanding non-profit lawyer thing, that’s three years old. Now it is. So we’re gonna have to get a new tagline for that or something. Are you going to run again? Can you? Can you be nominated again? I think maybe when I retire Tony, hopefully that’s some years away from that. That’s the Lifetime Achievement award. Yeah. You want to stay away from those? That’s that’s a death knell. Lifetime achievement award. You’re coming to a close when you get one of those. So you don’t You don’t want that yet. Okay? I want to thank you again for our very thoughtful the conversation last week. I don’t know. How does thoughtful, sincere conversation on this difficult diversity equity inclusion topic. I listened back to it on di just Thank you. That’s what I want to thank you very much for doing it. And for being a generous and sharing partner with me. Well, thank you for having that discussion with me to Tony that those air difficult discussions toe have, but I think really necessary ones. And it’s great to share that. Share it with the audience. Yeah, absolutely necessary. On DSO now, this week, which we didn’t get the cover. We want to turn some of this discussion into some action points for the board, and you have a lot of ideas around the board’s by-laws. Yeah, I think that’s right. So, you know, once you’ve committed that that, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion our topic of last weekend today are really part of the fabric of your organization’s core Vallon. You’ve got a champion for that, and they see it is organizational values they want on Believin in an equitable a system where you know all people are created equal and should have equal protections of law on equal rights. Unequal access. Once you’ve decided that that really is something that you want to do. And it’s not just about furthering your mission, which, you know, might be, too, um, advanced after school education. But you want to do it an equitable manner so that you’re not just favoring one you know group over other groups. And so once that’s decided, I think a really good sign of embedding those values into the organization is to put it in the organizational policies and the by-laws are really one of the core governing documents of the organization, and they’re really provisions there that can reflect the board’s commitment to diversity, equity and inclusions. Okay, um, and there’s, uh, there’s a lot that the board Khun do. Some of this is difficult. I want to point people to your blood post at non-profit law block dot com. You go into more detail there, and we have time for today about different provisions within the by-laws. But one that struck me is the is the selection of directors, and, well, I guess it’s too at the way you have The Post organized the selection directors in the qualification of directors, you know, again, challenging gets into should there be quotas or not? But, you know, say a little. It’s a little about the that selection and the qualification of directors. That was really apparent. So you know, a lot of people are focused on Well, the boards of non-profit organizations are really no more diverse, and they were twenty years ago. And sadly, that’s you know, with many non-profit leaders saying diversity on our board, this really important but not no riel action taken, you know, a sector over the last twenty years, and boards are still disproportionately dominated by white people and not with a lot of people of color, particularly in leadership positions. And the bigger the organizations are. Those discrepancies get get even worse. White males were talking about white males. Yeah, primarily, although there are a lot of females on especially smaller organization board, but still not not a lot of women of color on those boards. So addressing kind of some of those, you know, the discrepancy between non-profit leaders saying, this is really important, and the lack of action or achievement in advancing diverse boards or board composed of diverse populations is problematic. And so it’s not an easy thing to fix. But one of the things that you may think about is to determine Well, how are you? You know, qualifying board members. Do you have certain qualifications that say, you know, we we need board members toe, have this background with this education, or come from this particular area? Um, is that a good thing or bad thing? You know, sometimes you can say a quota like you mentioned way want, you know, a minimum of thirty percent of our board members. Uh, to be made up of women. So, you know, recently there’ve been some movement. California, I think, being going on one of the states in which they said, if you’re a public company operating here based in California, that you must have a certain percentage of women on your board by certain period Oh, interest line, though. Having a quota for non-profit corporations on board when when they haven’t really moved very much, could be effective. But there is sort of the disadvantage of Well, what if we said, you know, they had to be, uh, no, fifty percent Asian American? Andi, let’s say an organization and serving Asian American communities, we said the board has to be composed of fifty percent Asian Americans. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? And, um, you know, that’s a little bit more tricky to discuss. If we’ve got, uh, you know, uh, population where they’ve not been, where they’ve been marginalized and they haven’t been reflected. Well, fifty percent might be a good thing in terms of we. We’re not going to make them tokens in this organization if it was ah white dominated board, for example. But compare that if we said, Well, at least ten percent of our board must be African Americans, and we’ve got, you know, eight people on our board. So that means one boardmember they’re going to look for to be an African American person. And how are they going to feel if you know the reason they were picked? Because they’re African American. You know, that’s that was the determining criteria that you can’t really do it that way. I think you shouldn’t do it that way. That’s my opinion. So if you’re going to set a quota, you have to make sure that you’re looking at overall what your needs on the board are. So maybe you say, Well, we you know our serving African American population so we don’t have anybody African American on our board. So we lost that perspective of knowing how best to serve these communities. But bringing one member on the board and saying, Well, you represent all African Americans and give us your take on what they need is unfair. Yeah, that’s not only not only unfair but silly, it’s not fair to the person and just unreasonable Jean, I have to take a break. Got it pursuant their newest No, that’s Ah, that’s actually not the break that I need to take. The day break I need to take is tell us, can you use more money? You need a new revenue source. You know, you get the long stream of passive revenue when the cos you re far too Tello’s process their credit card transactions with Tello’s watched the video, then send the potential companies to the video. So it’s at tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s We got to do the live listener love Oh, and there’s a ton of it to holy mackerel. Way far out. Well, whoa! Let’s go abroad. Um Brazil. Beirut, Lebanon. Seoul, South Korea. Bangalore, India. Hanoi, Vietnam. Lima, Peru. Moscow, Russia, Iraq in Baghdad and Yosh Car Ola in Russia Also well live listener Love to all the foreign listeners. That’s remarkable. Live love out to you Here in the States. I’ve got multiple New York New York. We’ve got Tampa, Florida got Providence, Utah, not Providence, Rhode Island, Providence, Utah Hello, Utah. Live love to the listeners who are with us at this very moment and the podcast pleasantries to those who are with us. At some other moment, maybe a couple days. Weeks could even be sometimes, you know, I see downloads Not uncommon, you know, like eight weeks later. Wherever, wherever we fit into your life into your podcast listening regiment pleasantries to you, the podcast listeners. All right, Jean, Thank you for that. Um, yeah, expecting. I mean, that’s that’s just gross tokenism and unreasonable, you know, expecting one person to reflect on the entire community, even if it’s just a neighborhood, you know? That’s that’s awful. Alright, so again, you know, like we talked about last, you and I talked about last week. We said between the two of us were these things, they’re challenges. He’s issued a challenge, but they’re not insurmountable. Theyjust take thought, you know, and some back and forth. But the these challenges can be overcome. I think so, too tiny. So, you know, you may determine on the board that you’re looking for a new board members, but not only to bring you perspective with respect to a particular population that your organization may serve. But you also may need somebody with the financial manager with background and somebody who lives in a particular geographic area and now you know how to get your candidates. He made sort of way in all of those things, and this might be house on some universities determined who to accept. You know their students when when they assess their applications, there’s sort of taking a look at all of the things and maybe the fact that a particular candidate is African American. And the example I gave to you where there is nobody with that identity on the board currently is a heavier weighting factor. But the fact that that person also has this financial experience and also comes from the geographic area that’s also not represented him. We have to think of of identity groups of being intersectional because, for example, I’m not just Asian American. I’m also a male. I also have a certain educational background. You know, certain social economic status, certain physical ability, status, a certain sexual orientation, certain gender identification, and we all encompass multiple multiple identities, and we bring different things to the table. So just sort of thinking about that and how people can contribute to an organisation overall and how you might waste certain things a little bit more at a particular period of time because it’s underrepresented in your organization. And I think you just have to sort of treated as a totality. And so while quotas, I can be helpful in some ways, especially if the board has shown no movement, adding just one member to take a good picture. And I think wait, talked about sure is in a terrible reason. You do it. So you want to make sure that you’re giving that person or those persons, preferably two or three board members. Toe bring in if you’re. If you’re picking a racial identity group, I I think really they’re bringing two or three people in minimum. Um, if you don’t have any persons that that belonged to that group, existing is really important. And making sure they have a voice and power within the organization. Well, athletic ability. I’ve seen pictures of you playing soccer. Is that your? Is that your sport now? Okay. That volleyball was a volleyball. Okay, about volleys, E. I thought you were bouncing a ball off your head, but that wouldn’t be followed. Well, that’s not that’s not good volleyball. So maybe I remember wrong. That was years ago. But I remember I don’t know. Maybe you were giving me potential pictures for a head shot or something Where they were on your website. It was playing was playing viable alt-right you’re in the sand. You’re like you’re wearing a suit in your barefoot in the sand, aren’t you? Rate a little bit old now, but yeah. Go play. Okay. Volleyball. All right, all right. Um, so let’s move. All right, so that’s that’s That’s very well said, Gene. And again, your block Post at non-profit law block dot com was into a lot of other areas in the by-laws of terms of meetings, compensation, different committees. That was a good committees. Well, we did talk about you having I made the point of having a diverse committee versus diversity committee. You make a good you make a good point in the post About diversity Committee could be valuable not being a committee of the board, because then it could be more inclusive. And you don’t consider you don’t have to bring everyone into your board. You don’t worry about expanding your board flesh out a little bit. That diversity committee that’s not a part of the board. Yeah, so you know, there there, maybe, at least in the initial attempts, difficulty to bring in that particular identity group to your organization. If you’re not really doing anything with you know that targets programs or that targets a particular aspects of what you do with respect to that identity group. So I’ll use Native Americans, for example, on DH saying, Well, we don’t have any programs that when we’re not planning on any, but we would sure like to have somebody who brings us that perspective with respect to what we do, Well, that’s going to be hard for somebody to want to be on the board, just to give you their perspective unless they’re tied to the organization in multiple other ways. But if you are looking for them just to sort of give you a little bit of voice, they might be a little bit more amenable to joining the committee that, you know, that might have a limited life man to see you know whether you really should be addressing Native Americans in your programming. Or maybe you’ve got a Native Americans on your staff, and you’re not really sort of thinking about what their particular perspectives or needs might be. That might be different from from other people. So, um, breaking committees together at hot committees or task forces and bringing in people from different backgrounds. Teo give you some advice, You know, on a high level might be a good way to start, and eventually that might lead Teo bringing them onto the board. If if you know it gets further along and you want to empower them and their ideas and they’ve got great things to contribute and you know it’s a way to bring your values that you are the organization’s agreed upon values. You know, more toa wife in what they’re doing by having the perspective. You also say that one of the activities of that diversity committee could be to conduct a diversity audit or D d I on it. Not just deficit but diversity, Equity inclusion, audit on DH giving that report voice. And then there’s a question where that should be public or not. But I thought that was that was particularly striking as well. Had an impact that can really be helpful to an organisation because you don’t know what you don’t know. And if you don’t have other perspective on it, you may never be able to find out. So bringing those people in-kind can really help. We gotta take our last break Gene. When we come back, let’s let’s talk about some decision making some oversight on a switch away from the from the by-laws nous. Really, our last break is text to give. Can you use more money? I need a new revenue source. Here’s the second one was repeated. Another way of doing it. Mobile giving learn about it with text to gives five part email. Many course fiv e mails away one a day break through some of the MS no mers and misunderstandings around what it takes to get into a text to give program the way to get the five part many course, which is five emails. One a day, you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. All right, and we have got several more minutes with Gene for for our DEA and governance, too. Conversation, um, some decision making. Jean. You know, the basically, um, you know the oversight. How does that on DH? How does how does that how is that influenced by thes de issues suren and another really challenging area that that can be very organizational specifics. I’m going to really be speaking in generalities here, or maybe giving you a few examples of what it might be. But and I think first, you know, people who are leaders and nonprofit organizations really talk about being, you know, mission centric really centered. You know, all of their decisions should be made based on on advancing the mission in the best way possible. But, you know, with respect to some organizations if you advance your mission, but without considering your values, you really Khun go a stray from what you want the organization to be, so you know you’re You might feed homeless people, for example. But certain minority groups might be excluded because they aren’t receiving communications about those services in the language they understand or you might educate students. But you’re only serving those who can access your school, which might be in a more wealth the community and you might be protecting the environment, but not in places where marginalized communities lived. And in one example that’s close to the Bay Area, you might be. You might have an immense, an impactful grantmaking program, but failed to protect your employees from harassment and discrimination. Right? And so embedding D I values in how you oversee your organization and how you plan for their future and how you set policies. It’s really important because they can address all of those things, and there’s no shortage of examples where you know your values and diversity. Equity inclusion are not part of it where things could go go wrong. So hiring the CEO, selecting consultants, determining executive compensation How do you evaluate executive? All of those things don’t be influenced by the valleys that the organization have. And if you know, diverse, equitable and inclusive, um, practices are really what you wanted your organization to stand for. And really you think that’s going to be the best way to advance your mission and have, ah, happy, satisfied, fulfilled staff and volunteers and happy donors? I think you’ve got to start thinking about those things. You’re raising your raising consciousness. You know, again, we’re shifting from discussion toe action. If your organization is committed to d I as a core value, you know, then you’re you’re raising consciousness about what you could actually do to act on it and not just talk about it at board meetings. Let’s take a minute. You We only have about two minutes left. Was there a case in San Francisco that you were referring to her? That you said the Bay Area where our non-profit got into some trouble or what? Yeah, it was more a PR issue, but with Silicon Valley Community Foundation here, one of the biggest truckers in the world, you know, you know, they they ran into some some employees harassment at issue. And maybe, uh, leadership there was was not looking at that particular issue as muchas, sort of their core mission rather than than the set of values. So it really is just an important part of every organization I think is how you carry out your mission, Not just what your mission is. Yeah. Um, all right. I feel like, you know, we’re a little short, but I feel like we should wrap it there, Gene, because that’s I think that’s just perfect. Perfect. Wayto summarize our hour and a half of conversation. So I thank you again for covering this having this conversation, these conversations with me. Thank you so much Sharing, Gene. Great. Thank you, Tony. You’ll find him at G Tack. And, of course, non-profit. Lob log dot com Gene Gene, the law machine for insiders. Gene and I are going to talk about diversity, equity inclusion and your financial planning next week, your CEO board chair relationships with Aisha Nyandoro. And that’s going to spill over into a little about what Gene and I were talking about about intentionality of the selection of your board members. Because I know that we’re going to cover that because pre recorded that with Isha, see how it all blends together should not happen. Stance, for God’s sake. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled tourney dahna slash pursuant capital P by weather CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers Wagner cps dot com by Tell US credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy. 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