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Nonprofit Radio for September 26, 2022: In Nonprofits, Do We Trust?

 

Gene Takagi: In Nonprofits, Do We Trust?

Gene Takagi

Public trust in nonprofits is eroding. Why is that, what does it mean for our work, and what can the nonprofit community do about it? Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of NEO Law Group, returns with his insights.

 

 

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[00:00:52.08] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of fragility as angry. Um if you nailed me with the idea that you missed this week’s show in nonprofits, do we trust? Public Trust in nonprofits is eroding. Why is that? And what can the nonprofit community do about it? Gene Takagi are legal contributor and principal of neo Law group returns with his insights On Tony’s take two. This is not planned, giving

[00:00:57.14] spk_1:
we’re

[00:01:41.13] spk_0:
sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c. O. And by fourth dimension technologies I. T. Infra in a box the affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. It’s always a pleasure to welcome back Gene Takagi, you know who he is. Of course he he we owe him the introduction that he that he deserves, but you know who he is, He’s our legal contributor, Managing attorney of neo the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group in saN Francisco he edits the wildly popular nonprofit law blog dot com, which you should follow and he’s a part time lecturer at Columbia University. The firm is at neo law group dot com and jean is at G tech. Gene

[00:01:58.66] spk_1:
thanks

[00:01:59.11] spk_0:
for being back Welcome.

[00:02:00.73] spk_1:
It’s great to be here.

[00:02:03.15] spk_0:
It’s always a genuine pleasure. Thank you.

[00:02:07.78] spk_1:
We’re

[00:02:20.77] spk_0:
talking about public trust today. Uh not only your concerns, but you’re, you’re seeing evidence of. And I’m certainly reading some things too about eroding public trust in nonprofits. What what are you seeing? What are you thinking about that?

[00:02:27.69] spk_1:
You know, my first thoughts, tony is that trust really is the foundation of, of good relationships, right. No matter whether we’re talking about person to person,

[00:02:39.09] spk_0:
person to

[00:03:18.40] spk_1:
charity, you know, person to other institutions and charities I think are especially reliant on trust because if you’re asking people and groups and organizations to give money to you, um, they’ve got to trust that you’re gonna do use that money for charitable purposes, not for personal gain, not for other things, but for the charitable purposes that they want to support. And when trust erodes in our charities, that’s really a red flag and sort of a harbinger of things, bad things that could follow. So trust is really important, I think, um, to talk about. And the study, the most recent study that came out from independent sector and Edelman Data and intelligence found that there’s low trust amongst all institutions. So maybe not completely surprising, but less than a third say the trust, government, large corporations and the news media

[00:03:35.93] spk_0:
and

[00:04:08.91] spk_1:
charities, relatively speaking are better than that in terms of the trust factor, but it’s been dropping and nonprofits as a, as a sector, The trust and nonprofits now is 56%. The rest either are neutral on it or have a distrust of nonprofits, only 56% and only 36% trust philanthropy or foundations and grantmaking organizations, so that’s really, really low. And women’s trust and non profits dropped even more than than men. Um, and I think another flag to point out is our younger generations, especially gen Z

[00:04:17.56] spk_0:
really

[00:04:18.43] spk_1:
have a distrust of nonprofits. Um, and

[00:04:22.83] spk_0:
with

[00:04:23.75] spk_1:
the wealth transfer that’s expected from baby boom generation to millennials and two gen Z, that’s got to be alarming to nonprofits. And I, I think it’s just worthy to call out right now.

[00:04:35.97] spk_0:
Do you know what that number is among gen z. Trust in nonprofits that in the independent sector include that in in their survey.

[00:04:49.81] spk_1:
Well, the statistic that I, I saw that that called out to me was 57% of gen z. Americans say giving directly to individuals makes a bigger impact than giving to nonprofits. So they would rather give to individuals on go fund me or another crowdfunding site than to give to a nonprofit. They find that more trustworthy.

[00:05:16.77] spk_0:
There’s another dimension to the, to the trust, which is government, trust in nonprofits. And you could read government as congressional or, you know, I. R. S. But you know, they they, the the U. S. Government has bestowed the charitable deduction so that the money is used for, as you said, you know, for charitable purposes as disclosed in your organizing documents. And if if I’m thinking more of Congress, you know, if congress feels that

[00:05:43.59] spk_1:
the

[00:05:43.80] spk_0:
nonprofit community can’t be trusted, you know, we could start to see some erosion of, uh, clawback of some of the, the benefits that nonprofits enjoy. Tax free status, for instance, and the charitable deduction to name a couple of

[00:06:00.50] spk_1:
wildly

[00:06:01.37] spk_0:
wildly valuable ones.

[00:06:22.64] spk_1:
Yeah, and that’s such a great point because just a few days ago, there was news about a case in Minnesota where government funding to feed poor Children, um, there was a huge scandal involving tens of millions of dollars. So, um, it really speaks to two if government stops trusting nonprofits or certain government agencies and cuts funding to agencies, how harmful that might be to charities and the beneficiaries they’re trying to serve.

[00:06:35.87] spk_0:
I think that one was even worse. I think it was like $240 million dollars

[00:06:41.59] spk_1:
worth

[00:06:42.04] spk_0:
of pandemic aid money. I saw that in, in Minnesota is supposed to be going to feed Children during the pandemic and, and pocketed. Yeah,

[00:06:52.51] spk_1:
patterns there as well. It’s, it’s,

[00:06:55.94] spk_0:
yeah,

[00:06:58.09] spk_1:
it

[00:06:58.93] spk_0:
is. It’s, it’s, um, and then of course there’s always been Charles grassley. I mean, he’s been, he’s been nipping at, uh, foundations and donor advised funds for for years

[00:08:03.64] spk_1:
now. Yeah. And in fact, the whole charitable sector, I think, um, and a significant portion of our lawmakers, um, take a consumer protection perspective of, we want to protect donors, um, and not strengthening the nonprofit sector perspective they want to create laws that will per, you know, try to prevent, um, uh, fraud or misuse of charitable funds as if this is rampant amongst the nonprofit sector, which my position is, it is not, but there are certain high profile cases that hit the new york times and the Washington post and all the other newspapers. And there’s so much media coverage that focuses on scandals because that’s what’s gonna sell right. The tweet or the short snippet that people’s attention span will, will actually stop on. Um, it’s gonna sell much more if it’s a scandal rather than a long term growth in in impact. Even, you know, the, the great news that child poverty has, has been really declining in in the country, which should be huge news gets short shrift compared to some of the big scandals that we hear about.

[00:09:08.60] spk_0:
Yeah, yeah. When I name dropped Charles Grassley, I should have said Senator, senator from Iowa, Republican, senator from Iowa Charles grassley. Um, yeah, right. It’s, it’s the scandals that, that’s, that get clicks that sell papers that get attention. I remember, I’m sure you do several years ago there was a scandal among an, an organization supposedly raising money for Navy Veterans like Navy Navy Veteran Foundation or something like that several years ago, but it was very high profile. Um, what was the other, do you remember, I don’t mean to put you on the spot. It’s okay if you don’t remember because I don’t the, uh, the veterans organization that was accused of squandering, you know, tens of millions of dollars on lavish retreats and high, high executive salaries. But, but, but it it had it had great outcomes. It was, it was funding lots of veterans organizations.

[00:09:25.25] spk_1:
I think the one you’re talking about is the Wounded Warriors.

[00:09:29.11] spk_0:
Thank you. Yes. Project.

[00:09:51.07] spk_1:
And yeah, it’s, um, it’s always difficult. Um, looking at an organization through the eyes of the media, um, about how, you know, how well or unwell they did. I don’t want to create, um, you know, uh, discuss particular scandals too much other than to say that they create problems for the whole sector. So, you know, that’s, it’s just something to be aware of. And they’re not necessarily reflective of the vast majority of nonprofits out there trying to do good work and help people.

[00:10:17.64] spk_0:
The 99.99% you know, our our that’s even higher than the nonprofit radio 95% No, uh, 99.99% of nonprofits are not scandalous. And could they, could many of them be running more efficiently. Yes, but we’re not, we’re not talking about mere efficiency. You know, we’re talking about erosion of trust because of high profile crises or scandals malfeasance.

[00:10:37.97] spk_1:
Yeah, high

[00:10:39.21] spk_0:
profile,

[00:10:39.92] spk_1:
not

[00:11:55.21] spk_0:
representative. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They know the nonprofit community and they know pr and journalism. Both partners are former journalists peter pan a pinto, one of the two worked as senior managing editor at the Chronicle of philanthropy. And after that he was at the council on foundations. So he understands the nonprofit space very well, which means he understands your challenges, understands how important pr and being a thought leader is to to your work. And the two of them together know how to build relationships with outlets, not just with journalists, but you know, also podcasters, um, conference organizers. So they understand nonprofits, they understand communications, how to build relationships and that’s what’s gonna get you heard across all media. So let’s turn to turn to communications. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o Now back to in nonprofits. Do we trust?

[00:12:00.88] spk_1:
It takes me to another tangent though, now that you talked about efficiency, tony and that’s kind of, we’ve talked about it before and you’ve talked about it with the writers of uh, article or a letter called the overhead myth. I don’t know if you recall

[00:12:16.06] spk_0:
that many years ago. Yes. The C E O. S of charity Navigator better business. Bureau wise giving alliance and guidestar.

[00:13:08.09] spk_1:
Yeah. And you know, they were saying that we shouldn’t, you know, base ratings on a charity in terms of how worthy they are to receive funds from donors simply based on overhead ratio. You know what their admin and fundraising costs are relative to their programmatic costs and those are really wise wise words, um, that that were stated in that letter. But even today we still see organizations even high profile ones that talk about their low overhead ratio. And it can engender trust um, in their organization at the expense of trust of other organizations that legitimately have higher overhead ratios because the infrastructures and you know, the things that they need to do may be completely different. So it’s not fair to, you know, compare across the board and across the maturity of an organization. So

[00:14:06.82] spk_0:
another very valuable thing to invest in is is research, research, uh, maybe maybe going beyond research, activating a new program that, you know, that may or may not succeed, but you have to invest upfront, you know that it’s annoying the folks who hold different opinions about wise investment in technology, you know, it’s Uber should be losing money for the 1st 12 years, you know, because it’s investing in the future. Um, Tesla, you know, non profit unprofitable for many years, but you know, look where they are now, but, but in the nonprofit sector, you know, we don’t we don’t allow that that research and um, spending on innovation, we consider that overhead like, you know, like, like rent, which rent happens to be important too, but you know, something, something um, rent is not a good example, but sort of, you know, frivolous or you know, self indulgent when it could very well be research and and scaling up for for a for a dynamic

[00:14:29.60] spk_1:
future or even things like a living wage.

[00:15:22.90] spk_0:
Yeah. Good. Exactly. Thank you. Yes. Um, yeah, I I don’t like the, you know, I don’t like the double standard where we we we praise it in in some industries, but we we we criticize it uh, in in non profits. And I’m thinking specifically about investment in the future and whether that’s people or programs or even technology, technology is a is a valuable investment. It saves time. It creates productivity, makes people more comfortable at work. It enables them to work out of an office now and be remote, give them that benefit, which so many people are craving now, you know, but these are these are all wise investments, not not um, detrimental overhead.

[00:16:33.02] spk_1:
Yeah, I absolutely agree. And there’s a way to do it cheap. You could invest in technology on the cheap and that might have long term adverse consequences, including to kind of the sort of the data protection and privacy issues that can result. So if you’re really thinking ahead and investing in, not only just technology, just to be sort of more effective and efficient in the short term, the protective of your beneficiaries and your staff and others your donors in the long term, um, then you need to make more of an investment in that. And that’s another thing where, you know, we lose trust if you if you sort of blow your donor lists that are supposed to be private and you know, other big companies get ahold of it and start to target your donor base for unrelated things or even if they’re related sometimes, but not your organization and it was due to a slip on your part or your technology and information technology protocols. You can run into trouble. So again, investments have a double edged sword there. Great. But they can result in a loss of trust too if you’re not managing it properly and you compromise people’s information.

[00:16:41.40] spk_0:
Um, and also, you know, you mentioned living wage but investing in people so that people stay with your organization.

[00:16:48.75] spk_1:
All

[00:16:49.07] spk_0:
right. And that that starts with a living wage that also impacts to on technology. Uh, you know, time away professional development. You know, these are, these are investments in staff that people see and appreciate and make longevity with your organization more likely than you know, than than to to jump ship every six months.

[00:17:11.75] spk_1:
And that builds trust to write, I’m much more comfortable working with you if you’ve been with the charity for 10 years, Tony than if you were hired three months ago and there’s always a different person I’m talking to as a donor.

[00:17:31.13] spk_0:
Absolutely. Yeah. All right. You have some insights into what we as a community or hopefully even individual nonprofits can can start to think about take to their C. E. O. S. Take to their boards. This is always where you Excel gene.

[00:18:33.73] spk_1:
Well in the first steps are kind of simple. Um you know, it’s be compliant yourself, make sure your own houses in order. Um so we can sort of raise all of the issues with where you can lose trust with organizations. Um but even though 99.9% of the organizations are well intentioned, I can’t say that 99.9% of the organizations are compliant. Um so working to make sure you’re compliant Working to make sure that the tone is set at the top with the strong board of directors that is actually providing direction and oversight and not just simply helping you, you know, with fundraising and otherwise just rubber stamping the decisions of the leaders. I think it really is important that the tone be set at the top of the organization through the board of directors. A

[00:18:34.26] spk_0:
tone say say more about the tone.

[00:19:11.50] spk_1:
So the tone of placing the importance of a trusting relationship with our beneficiaries with our employees with our other stakeholders. I think that’s really important and that should be reflected in policies. So it’s not good enough to say, you know, this is what we believe in. So the, you know, one of the hot topics today is a board sets a diversity equity and inclusion policy. But if that policy just sits on the shelf and that’s the end of the discussion of it. And there are no actual changes or action plans attached to that that’s gonna maybe harm the organization more than help it. So the tone at the top means a board that is doing its role in moving that organization forward and focusing um not only on doing good work and, you know, metrics for for programmatic success, but on building trust within and outside of the organization.

[00:20:07.00] spk_0:
And that that Ceo board chair uh Ceo executive committee, if the board has an executive committee relationship is key to this. I mean, they they all whether it’s two people or the Ceo and a committee, you know, need to be uh you know, committed to the same, not only the same mission, but the same uh strategy for getting there. You know, the same commitment to the things that you’re talking about, this needs to be a a unified

[00:20:08.30] spk_1:
working

[00:20:09.10] spk_0:
group at the top between the Ceo and the board leadership.

[00:21:55.36] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s absolutely critical tony I agree. There is, however, sort of another dimension to this which adds complexity and that’s kind of the feeling amongst particularly younger generations. Again, and why there’s a little bit of distrust is too much power focused on the top of an organization without sort of distributing leadership and and the right to participate in this. You know, the bigger decisions of the organization being dispersed throughout the organization and getting input from beneficiaries about um you know, how the organization should evolve or um move forward in further its purpose if we’re not really thinking about getting other voices in it, and particularly if our boards are not very diverse, um that’s gonna engender more distrust as well um with with an organization and this leadership. So while what’s happening at the top level and the relationship between the Ceo and the chair of the board is critically important, it is really important to also make sure that leadership, authority and power is being dispersed down through the organization and that the board actually can listen to directly um input from some of the staff. Um and we shouldn’t create like a wall between board and staff completely. You know, that there’s a little bit of um new thinking on that because the old old ways is like the board should not micromanage right. We should not interfere with staff decisions, which is partly true, but it doesn’t mean that we create a complete block. So the board members don’t see the staff members and the staff don’t see the board and they just don’t know each other. So, um there is a sort of a balance there that needs to be taken.

[00:22:20.82] spk_0:
Can we, can we say a little more about that in terms of examples of how this could be done? Like you’re you’re talking about staff, but also the beneficiaries of the programmatic work. Uh is this um like, I mean, certainly beneficiaries could be members of the board or or is it more an advisory committee, but then to your point, you know, you don’t want it to just be a committee that the board doesn’t listen to. The ceo doesn’t listen to. You know, how can we uh actually execute on on some of this in terms of staff and beneficiaries?

[00:24:23.71] spk_1:
So there are a lot of different ways that it might be done and there’s no one right way for, you know, for all organizations, but getting other voices involved can be done in, you know, um through committees as you suggested, but they can’t just be advisory. If you’re really gonna disperse power, you have to give them some power even if they’re not made up of only board members and some people call any committee that is not composed of only board members, they call them at advisory committees. And because of the name, they think that they can only give advice to the board, but they don’t have any management authority. But that’s not true. You can give these other committees management authority, the way you can give a Ceo or CFO management authority, the board can delegate authority down to these other committees. These non board committees as well. So that may be one way of getting power dispersed through the organization, that that committee might be made up of some employees, some beneficiaries and maybe there is a pipeline so that some of the other people that you’d like to put onto a board, but you might not know very well, you might not have enough experience in certain things that you’d like to have them develop more knowledge of the organization and the work before they possibly a strong candidate for joining the board, but that could be a vehicle or an on ramp to being a board um board member as well. And again, creating a more diverse and stronger board with diverse perspectives and understandings of what the organization does and who it impacts. So I think there are definitely ways and we’ve seen this in other models as well. Some that have worked with some organizations and same models not working with other organizations. Hill Ocracy is sort of one example of that. What

[00:24:24.13] spk_0:
is that drug in jail? What? Hill Ocracy.

[00:25:53.62] spk_1:
Hill Ocracy is a form of management where there are still remnants of hierarchy, but a lot of decision making is made in kind of circles and circles might be employed, they might be employees and others and circles have certain autonomy over their body of decision making. So you might have a circle based on HR issues. So it’s not just one person with the final say, it’s this circle or a group in the law, we would just call it another committee. But um in hypocrisy there all circles and and this was used by some high profile for profit companies and some nonprofits, some had success with it, Some didn’t. So um there are other models out there as well, not one size will fit all, but again, there’s an administrative cost to trying to implement new models, um, but new models or maybe the way that we want to go and their movement organizations all over the place that are impacting how nonprofits and for profits are to be governed and managed. And we should be listening to some of these forces that are out there because they will gradually shape what we’re doing. You can see this by some younger people not sticking with employment as long as they were the great resignation and stuff. If you feel powerless within an organization or if you don’t feel the organization is representing what you want, your employer to be doing, they may not stay and having a little bit of say in what the organization is doing, even if it’s just the starting points because you can’t jump from point a to, you know, to the ideal point in one step, it’s gonna take a long, a long time to get there. But just to seeing that progress may be assigned to somebody to to say, I’m gonna stick around here and and find out

[00:26:35.35] spk_0:
alright creating vehicles for right people’s voices to be heard. Um, and you’re right, it’s, it’s incremental, but just the, just the showing of some progress, some initiative to uh, opening up the leadership, opening

[00:26:38.15] spk_1:
up

[00:26:41.97] spk_0:
strategic decision making, could be, it could be uh, you know, valuable to, to folks right? And encourage them to, to stay versus looking for someplace that’s more inclusive. Yeah.

[00:26:53.98] spk_1:
You know, if your Ceo doesn’t trust the board or if your employees don’t trust the ceo, how are you going to expect donors and your beneficiaries to trust the organization? So it really trust has to be built throughout the organization.

[00:28:41.45] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Fourth dimension technologies. Are you seeing technology as the investment that it is not as an expense, but an investment in your sustainability, your staff productivity, your staff happiness, um, satisfaction, an investment in your donor relations through your crm database. Uh, it’s an investment in your organization’s work and its future. That’s what technology that’s where your technology ought to be thought of. And fourth dimension four D. For short can help you make those investments wisely so that you’re not squandering on something you don’t really need. Like maybe your backup is sufficient, but you need the multi factor authentication installed, etcetera. So you know, they can help you think through smart technology investments. That’s it four D. And you know where the listener landing pages to check them out. It’s at tony dot M A slash four D. Which by the way is just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. Let’s return to in non profits. Do we trust? What else do you see Gene as as things we can we can think about besides this sort of distributed, I’m calling it distributed leadership or maybe you call it distributed leadership. Yeah.

[00:29:32.73] spk_1:
So other things. Maybe some simple tips guard private data. We talked a little bit about it before with technology. If you’ve got data that you’re promising that will be kept confidential. Make sure you’re guarding that. Be careful about automating and depersonalizing interactions with technology as well. Like we could have a sort of a voicemail for everybody and you know, hit one if you want to do this. It too. If you want to do this and completely not let any donor speak to any individual without, you know, spending an hour on the phone that may not be, uh, seen as something that would build trust. So we have to be careful of our uses of technology there as well in our communications. Um, if you’re going to say something, um, don’t talk the talk. If you’re not going to walk the walk, right? So don’t make promises that you’re not going to keep

[00:29:41.70] spk_0:
that for an example of that is A D. I. Policy,

[00:29:45.44] spk_1:
right? Exactly

[00:29:46.80] spk_0:
written and never, never executed or remains written once and never evolves.

[00:31:13.44] spk_1:
And if you have a campaign to engage in a particular, uh, you know, program and you don’t raise enough money. And so that program never runs, you better be explaining this to your donors. Um, why that happened. And the possibility that that might happen when you start fundraising for it. So don’t just say, you know, after the fact when they complain that said, well we didn’t raise enough. So we used your money for other things that’s not going to engender trust. Um remember your mission and your beneficiaries don’t exist in a vacuum, right? Um, so it’s not just about your organization. And if you your numbers go up, um whatever metrics that you use financial performance or number of beneficiaries served whatever they are, you shouldn’t look at it as a silo. You should be looking at the entire ecosystem in which you are participating. And that would be, you know, open up things like environmentalism like you might not think environmental, your organization’s not environmental organization, but if climate change continues and creates hardships that, you know, scientists are predicting, predicting you probably will have an impact on your mission and your beneficiaries. And so to sort of think, just, you know, outside of that, that silo you want to be thinking about what your impact of your decisions will be, not only on your organization and beneficiaries, but on your allied organizations, on the broader community and what will that do to trust as well. So,

[00:32:03.91] spk_0:
a lot of these ideas, a lot of what you’re saying could be, you know, germinating in an advisory committee, you know, how could we look differently at at our contribution to climate change and what climate change means to us in the future for our for our for our people and for our work, but also what could we be doing right now, You know, even if we’re not an environmental organization siloed as you’re saying, you know, we still have an environmental impact. So what what contribution to to minimize climate change or reverse climate change can we make as well as planning for the for the future? Uh you know, that that those kinds of conversations can come out of these um advisory committees that is that are comprised of staff and and beneficiaries. I mean, these are the folks that live the mission day to day.

[00:32:36.09] spk_1:
Yeah, I love that idea to tony Sometimes the board may not have um or feel that they have the bandwidth to sort of discuss these sort of broader issues. Um and they’re a little bit more focused. So having the help um the advisory committee on an issue like like climate change for a non environmental organization or an organization whose mission is not focused on the environment. I think that would be great.

[00:32:45.06] spk_0:
Yeah. And I want to reiterate your point that which I’ve never thought of, advisory committees can be granted policy making authority and and and change within the organization. So whatever that looks like, you know, you can bestow that that authority

[00:33:05.16] spk_1:
Absolutely, and you can give them a budget to even sort of to putting

[00:33:11.20] spk_0:
money behind it. But that that yeah, money talks. That’s a that’s a big step granting them a budget granting them some granting them authority to make change that’s empowering and an advisory committee. All right.

[00:34:01.14] spk_1:
I think, you know, one area of trust that we haven’t spoken yet, but maybe, um why I as a lawyer and talking about these things and you’re not getting it from another consultant, is that the laws can also impact trust and non profits have to decide whether they want to set a position on certain laws. And um, some of the things that I’m thinking about is the deductibility of charitable contributions. So, we’ve had an above the line contribution where non itemizers could deduct as well because of Covid. Um, but that was just temporary. Um, and now there’s sort of a push for, well, we should make a charitable contribution deductible to all taxpayers, and not just about the 10% of taxpayers who itemize, who tend to be, you know, have a little bit more wealth, or some, in some cases a lot more than those who don’t itemize.

[00:34:17.90] spk_0:
Is it that small? The proportion of taxpayers who itemize is around 10%,,

[00:34:22.34] spk_1:
10-13%, is what I’m hearing.

[00:34:24.86] spk_0:
Okay,

[00:35:52.18] spk_1:
So, um, again, you know, part of trust and distrust has to do with concentrations of power and wealth, right? And when the 1% or the .1% control so much policy control the leadership of pivotal organizations in all sectors, and in government, um, there’s going to be a distrusted institutions. Again, that, you know, one third of people distrust big institutions. Um, and, you know, that concentration of wealth and power is, is the reason why. Um so laws that sort of enforce that. So if we just give you no deductible, make make tax benefits to, to richer people who can deduct, who can itemize their deductions and not to others that may feel really unfair to the public. And another reason for distrust. So, will your organization’s, even though tax policy is probably almost no organization’s mission, it has an impact. Um, and so it may be something that organizations want to take a look at. And there are organizations like independent sector of the National Council on nonprofits and others who the Tax Policy center that that can explain this a little bit. But you you may want to take a look and see if you want to put a position on it. And one of the things that I also think, um engender distrust is when the media miss reports, the law in one area where the mis reported it is a lot of media say, charities can’t lobby and that’s just not true. Um, so charities can lobby on things like, you know, the the above the line deduction. Um, and and on other things as well, and there are just certain limits that apply, but they’re often generous, So learn a little bit more and we can build a stronger sector?

[00:36:21.84] spk_0:
Well, you and I have talked about the the lobbying limits on previous shows, is it is it safe to say that the law hasn’t changed over the past? I don’t know, 23 years maybe, since you and I have talked about this.

[00:36:34.17] spk_1:
Okay,

[00:37:06.11] spk_0:
So, so at Tony-Martignetti.com, you can search gene Takagi, you’ll find many episodes that he’s on and one or one or two are about the uh, the lobbying limits, I think, I think the last time may have been 2020 when the pre election. So we may well, with the, with the election in late The election in late 2020, so we may have done something like in mid-2020 or so on the lobbying, uh, exemption or Well, that’s not that’s not that’s not the right phrase. What the limits of lobbying and you make the you just said, you know, they are, they are generous in some cases. It’s not it’s not that it has to be a de minimus proportion of your budget or something.

[00:37:24.83] spk_1:
Yeah, the

[00:37:26.87] spk_0:
yeah,

[00:37:27.68] spk_1:
the losses insubstantial which scares the majority of charities away from doing any of it, but it turns out it can be fairly generous limits to engaging in lobbying.

[00:38:01.79] spk_0:
Okay. Um, and the point that you made before that, I was going to say something about that too. Well, sorry, what did you say? Right before you were talking about the uh, the permissibility of some lobbying activities. You made a point? Yes, thank you. The last thing we want is for Donating to charity to be perceived as, uh, as an elitist activity. That only the only the top now you’re saying whatever 10 or 13% of the population can, can give because they’re the only ones who get the advantage because they’re the only, they’re the ones who itemize their deductions. The last thing we want is for donating to charities to be perceived as an elitist activity.

[00:39:13.92] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. tony and with, you know, with our current tax policy, how it works. Um, then I don’t want to get too complicated with that. We are seeing a shrinking middle class. I don’t think there’s anything denying that people, most people have less discretionary income. So if we look at the fundraising statistics now, the giving statistics, we see that, um, even if giving goes up Giving from kind of the middle class and smaller donors has shrunk, um, and, and quite significantly, and it’s, it’s the people, um, that have put in huge contributions that have made up for that. So the Mackenzie Scott, you know, with, I think $13 billion dollars over the last few years, they’re making up for that. But that can change the way nonprofits run if, if it’s all about, again, elite, wealthy, powerful individuals who make the big contributions that then have the ear of the boards of these organizations that then talk about policy and they create policy or, or advocate for policies that keep that dynamic in existence. So it is problematic.

[00:40:52.59] spk_0:
It’s time for Tony Take two. My latest video on linkedin is this is not planned giving uh it’s short under two minutes. I give you an example of what is not planned giving and remind you what planned giving is, how simple planned giving is when it’s done right, when you start with simple gifts by will. But I’ve got kind of a lighthearted back way of looking at it through what planned giving isn’t in the opening. So latest video on linkedin, you’ll find me on linkedin. My name is tony-martignetti by the way that has escaped you. And uh it’s my latest video there That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for in nonprofits. Do we trust with Gene Takagi? Look at this dark potential that people look at at the United States as alright, the wealthy control government because of dark money and and the Citizens United decision, the Supreme Court uh wealthy control business because only wealthy people start and or run run businesses and grow them and only only white males have the access to capital to start businesses. And then and then the perception that um the wealthy control the nonprofit

[00:41:13.41] spk_1:
sector, you

[00:41:21.27] spk_0:
know, and the wealthy control of media, you know, this is all this is all very uh a very detrimental, very dark cynical way of looking at the at the country, but I’m not I’m not sure that where that’s far away from

[00:42:10.55] spk_1:
it. Yeah, I agree. tony And I think past generations, you know, including ours, you know, we’ve always kind of done better than our parents. Our parents were lucky enough to put us in that position. But the younger generations now economically um and maybe, you know health wise and mental health wise, they may not be doing as well as their parents overall and they’re questioning kind of the system because of that. Um and we maybe didn’t question it because our generation did better than our parents um in those terms. But now there is just legitimate questioning of do we need to change these policies and these dynamics and these power structures and um you know, organizations have a say in this and and use your voice, get get people to vote. Maybe that’ll be my my one of my big messages vote

[00:43:27.00] spk_0:
voting is fundamental to although, you know, in a lot of states that’s being eroded you becoming more difficult, although in a lot of states it’s easier to um you know, another thing that comes to mind when, you know, you’re talking about the generations below the the the boomers not doing as well as the one before them. Um The FDA just yesterday recommended mental health screening at regular uh regular doctor visits, like an annual annual health health checkup for everybody under 65 And and they had been considering this policy that this recommendation is just a recommendation to the medical community from from for years before the pandemic. This is not, this is not pandemic-related recommendation. They had been considering this for years before the pandemic that there’s a lot of stress and anxiety among the population under 65 and 65 is basically the baby boomer cut off within a couple of years.

[00:43:59.55] spk_1:
And then, you know, as you noted, this was even before Covid that they’ve been advocating for this and now with Covid and the mental health issues that are sort of go along with not just the disease, but the isolation that many are experiencing and long Covid, which is sort of an underappreciated under recognized problem and disabilities maybe creating more disability, disabled americans than anything. Um, since you know, the World War two, I think would be the last one. It’s just, it’s mind blowing

[00:44:01.44] spk_0:
and I and I and all this does contribute to a decline in trust in all institutions and nonprofit. The nonprofit community is a major institution in the country. So you know, that’s, that’s how this is all related

[00:44:15.09] spk_1:
to what you

[00:44:21.48] spk_0:
and I are talking about. I want to make that connection explicit that anxiety among the population creates anxiety for nonprofits and, and and distrust and disbelief in nonprofit work. Whether that’s justified or not perception is reality.

[00:44:36.71] spk_1:
Yeah, I agree. tony

[00:44:40.74] spk_0:
All right. I don’t know. So we had, we had said one of the things we’re gonna talk about is what happens, what happens if this continues? I mean, I already painted a pretty dark cynical scenario. Um, is there anything more you want to say around? You know, what, what the implications are if the community doesn’t start to help itself?

[00:46:25.73] spk_1:
Well, maybe on a more micro looking basis, it just means for a charity, they’re gonna experience diminished fundraising. Not everybody gets Mackenzie scott, Jeff Bezos money. Right. Most of them are relying upon a pool of donors, um, many of which are aging, um, and may age out of their donor pool. Um, and shrinking again, middle class, shrinking, discretionary income for many people, meaning West donations. Um, we might see more direct giving to individuals as people are saying, well, I don’t trust charities overall. I’d rather just give to my friends who say, you know, somebody is in need as crowdfunding fight sites just continue to, to grow in importance and also in in power as well. Um, and that’s just gonna be to the detriment of, you know, beneficiaries of our charity. So again, in the micro level, we make less money, people trust us less. Our employee retention is less. Um, our donor pool is shrinking and we can help less people even as the need for our services increases. So that’s kind of the dark side look of it. Um, we can try to be the nonprofit that stands out and you know, is the trustworthy non profit from, from a public perception standpoint. Um, that’s good. But again, don’t see yourself in a silo lift yourself up with all the boats in the water and, and really try to strengthen the nonprofit sector where you can, and, and advocating on some of the laws that make things more fair, I think is a good start there

[00:46:41.97] spk_0:
advocating maybe there’s a way of partnering

[00:46:45.00] spk_1:
with other

[00:46:55.64] spk_0:
organizations, not, not in all in all things. I don’t mean a legal formal partnership, but you know, if, if there’s, if there’s a way of working together for an event or, or some kind of advocacy,

[00:47:03.61] spk_1:
you

[00:47:11.44] spk_0:
know, we’ve had shows on the values of that and how to do that. Um, so that everybody, you know it, so that it’s, it’s not seen as a, as a zero sum within your, within your community that if if if someone else, some other organizations benefiting, then you’re losing. You know, that’s not the way to look at,

[00:47:25.67] spk_1:
at,

[00:47:26.47] spk_0:
at the world and and that not nonprofit support. We we all could be or a couple of couple of organizations together could be rising together.

[00:47:37.64] spk_1:
Yeah, I’ll add that the independent sector survey, the Edelman Data Intelligence survey that we mentioned at the start of the show also has some tips on building up trust within the sector. So it’s not all of dark outlook. It’s just encouraging people that the importance of this is very, very high. Um, so let’s go out and actually make things happen? So that, that dark outlook doesn’t happen

[00:48:05.70] spk_0:
within independent sector. Gene, what’s the, what’s the name of the you’re saying? Edelman data?

[00:48:11.03] spk_1:
Yeah, I think they contracted out with Edelman E D E L M A. And Data and intelligence and their third annual reports. This is an annual report is available on the independent sector website.

[00:48:26.66] spk_0:
Okay, thank you. Edelman E D E L M A N,

[00:48:30.68] spk_1:
correct.

[00:48:49.24] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Uh, you mentioned the five oh one C four’s a little bit, but there have been a couple in the news very recently, most recently the uh, Patagonia companies, uh, sort of evolution into a uh, a new nonprofit, a new a new five oh one C four. non profit the hold fast collective.

[00:51:57.05] spk_1:
Yeah. So the founder of Patagonia and his family member, they were the principal owners of Patagonia and they decided to give up ownership of the company, but you know, they gave it not to a charity, but to a 501 C four organization. Um, it’s called the social welfare organization and for listeners who aren’t maybe familiar with it, you probably are familiar with many five oh one C four organizations themselves, like the N. R. A. Planned parenthood, the A. C. L. U. Sierra Club. So these are advocacy organizations that have kind of charitable like purposes. Um, but our can engage in unlimited lobbying and can engage in election nearing or political campaign intervention? Supporting political candidates and political parties, as long as that’s not their primary activity or purpose. So this is sort of the source or one of the big sources of where dark money comes in tony that you mentioned with the Citizens United Decision before donor that wants to support a candidate but stay hidden from public view about their support of the Can rather than giving directly to the candidate, could give to a 501 C four organization and the C Four organization can get their money’s into the candidate. And the donor that is disclosed is the C Four organization, not the donor to the C Four organization. So that’s how you can create dark money. And with the Patagonia case, it’s very clear who the donor was. So we don’t expect that to be the dark money that we’re as leery of, but it’s still, you know, a huge gift which, you know, for somebody who believes in in in the environmental movement I think is a great gift. But news media miss reporting it or some news media are mis reporting it as kind of something that doesn’t get a tax benefit because a donor doesn’t get an income tax deduction for giving to a five oh one C Four organization the way they do if they give to a charity. Um but there are other tax exemptions that apply like a gift tax exemption or in a state tax exemption. So this gift is overall saving. Um uh mr Schwinn nerd um the owner and his family probably somewhere in the realm of $800 million in taxes. Um So it is not completely a no tax benefit transaction. Again this is not to disparage them for taking advantage of a system that allows for these gifts Um to go with with some tax benefits, but it’s not just the income tax deduction that matters in in donations there for for very wealthy people like billionaires. Um the gift and estate tax exemptions which can be 40%, right? So it can be very very high higher than income tax they matter. Um and so that’s something to be aware of that. Um this is a very wealthy person who gave up much of the ownership share, I guess all of his ownership shares to this 501 C4 organization, except really importantly 2% of the gift. Overall gift was given to a trust that’s not a nonprofit.

[00:52:14.55] spk_0:
Yeah those voting, those are the 2% of the voting that are the voting shares,

[00:52:58.58] spk_1:
right? So because they’re in control of that trust with with some close advisers um they have not given control out of Patagonia, right? They still can control Patagonia. Um And again they’re taking advantage of existing law what what it allows but it allows billionaires to not give up control of their company, get an $800 million tax benefit for giving or you know $3 billion Uh to a 501 C4 organization that could spend nearly half of it on endorsing political candidates. Um So it’s kind of an interesting tax system that that allows for that.

[00:53:18.19] spk_0:
And if if you consider that, you know supportive of uh of a liberal progressive cause because the whole fast collective the the new C4 is is devoted to uh the ill effects of climate change, you know, reversing climate change, impacting climate change. Uh So if you consider that of a left cause, then there’s an example on the right side with uh mr barr seed and the marble Freedom Trust. Another five oh one C four.

[00:53:44.39] spk_1:
Yeah. And that sea forces led by Leonard Leo who maybe the person most responsible for the changing of our Supreme Court and therefore the decisions on things like abortion might be largely attributed to mr Leo,

[00:53:56.21] spk_0:
fundraiser and activist and very well connected guy in conservative circles.

[00:56:20.34] spk_1:
Yeah. And used to be Executive vice president of the Federalist Society whose mission was to change the composition of the Supreme Court. So um I I don’t think that’s controversial and that’s just what their goal was. And they were very effective at achieving that goal. But this $1.6 billion kind of same thing. There there are some tax benefits that go along with it. There’s no income tax deduction. Um and mr uh c passed away. I think this was given after his death. But another big contribution to an organization led by somebody who has immense influence and now a huge war chest that can be used for political activities. Again, the primary activity cannot be political campaign intervention. Um, but some people believe, or many people believe that means 49% of the funds can be used for political campaign intervention. And that’s kind of the source of dark money. Although again in this case we do know where the donor came from. Um, so it’s not dark in that way in terms of hidden donors, but it’s still donations that didn’t go directly to the political candidate. It went through five oh one C four first, get the tax benefits for that, which his heirs, I guess would appreciate. Um, uh, and the impact of that again, is that? Well, in both cases, very wealthy people are able to keep control with people who they trust or their family members of their money to be used for political purposes. They can’t use it for themselves to, you know, to buy huge houses and boats, but they can use it for things that were very important to them. But that means for people like us and most of your listeners, tony is like, what influence do we have compared to that individual who gave billions of dollars to influence political elections. Um, and you know, what, you know, can we change our Supreme Court sort of composition the way that they’re able to do, probably not by ourselves. So it again is, is the reason why people go, hey, these are nonprofits that they’re using to do this. I don’t trust non profits, this is what they’re used for. And charities kind of get lumped in because the ordinary, you know, people, the lay person doesn’t know the difference between a five oh one C three and five A one C four organization.

[00:56:36.19] spk_0:
Yeah, and that’s right. And it’s it’s if it’s mentioned in a in in press coverage, you know, it’s mentioned in passing that it it’s it’s an organization that’s distinguished from from uh charities. But you know, it’s like, it’s like a sentence or two. You know, it’s it’s never it’s never a focal point. So your point is correct that people just lump them all together

[00:57:00.57] spk_1:
and flows through nonprofits and that’s why we shouldn’t trust nonprofit.

[00:57:04.97] spk_0:
So the wealthy control government and they control politics and they control business and media and and nonprofits.

[00:57:18.46] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s that’s what we, We’re finding more and more is the case, but we’re trying to change policies and change minds about this so that we can see that the impact of the 99.9% out there is actually even bigger than the impact that we mentioned about a few individuals. Um, it just has to be organized. Um, and non profits are way to do that.

[00:58:21.68] spk_0:
Well, that’s a, that’s a pretty good way to close. Probably we should have closed with what our community can do. But you know, you’re suffering the lackluster host. So uh you can rewind to that section and then uh fast forward and you can end with that if you want to. Um, but but jean, you know, always thank you, you know, sort of reality, but also wisdom and inspiration. And and not only um ethereal pedagogical inspiration, but you know, ideas that we can we can we can act on. So thank you. Thank you.

[00:58:24.63] spk_1:
Thank you Tony. And your closing statement is actually always the greatest ending. So, I’m looking forward to hearing it.

[00:59:39.16] spk_0:
Okay, All right, thank you jean. Next week. Let’s see what develops and why do I even say uh, next week if I don’t know what’s coming up next week, but we’re here we are. We’re talking about trust and part of that is transparency. So I’m being transparent that I don’t know what next week’s show is gonna be, I know what the 1 to 2 weeks from now is gonna be. We’re gonna have beth cancer and Allison fine talking about their new book, but I can’t promise that for next week because well, that would be a lie and that’s going to reach the trust because they’re not on next week. Next week. Uh, it’s up in the air, but trust me, it’ll be just that’s conclusory. Just trust me now, I hope you trust non profit radio I’ll find something good if you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com responses by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o and by fourth dimension technologies I. T. Infra in a box, the affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four

[00:59:48.37] spk_1:
D. Just

[01:00:03.54] spk_0:
Like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. A creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff to show social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein, Thank you for that. Affirmation Scotty B with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Here it is, Jean, go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for January 17, 2022: Legal Outlook For 2022

Gene Takagi: Legal Outlook For 2022

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi returns for a mix of checklist items and emerging trends. It’s a good time to look big picture at your HR investments, corporate docs and financials. Also, what to look out for in crowdfunding, donor disclosure, data protection, and more. Gene is principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group (NEO) and our legal contributor.

 

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[00:02:10.34] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of proto psychosis if you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show Legal Outlook for 2022, Gene Takagi returns for a mix of checklist items and emerging trends. It’s a good time to look at big picture items like your HR investments, corporate docs and financials also though what to look out for in crowdfunding donor disclosure, data protection and more, jean is principal of the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group Neo and our legal contributor On Tony’s take two 50% off planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. It’s always my pleasure to welcome back Gene Takagi to the show. You know who he is. It’s almost it’s almost superfluous for me for me to do the intro. But but jeanne deserves it. He’s well credentialed and I want to make sure that he gets his due introduction. Gene Takagi are legal contributor and managing attorney of Neo, the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group in saN Francisco. He edits that wildly popular nonprofit law blog dot com, which you should be following and he is a part time lecturer at Columbia University. The firm is at neo law group dot com and he’s at jeanne, Welcome back.

[00:02:11.94] spk_1:
Great to be back. tony how are you?

[00:02:13.98] spk_0:
It’s always a pleasure. Thank you. I’m well happy New Year.

[00:02:17.99] spk_1:
Happy New Year.

[00:03:05.74] spk_0:
Thank you. And let’s, so let’s let’s talk about the new year. Um and just before we do I want to remind folks that not too long ago we have genes one, our legal audit which you might want to look back at. That was a sort of a condensed version of some of what we’re gonna talk about today. Although we have lots of new subjects to talk about today too. But there was the one our legal audit and also with jean recently Risk management Part one and then a different show. Risk Management Part two. So those are resources that you can look back at just from a couple of months ago and we’ll go into and and those go into more detail on some of what we’re gonna talk about today jean. Uh where would you like to start for the new year, throw it open, throw it, I throw it open to you. What would you like to start with?

[00:03:58.64] spk_1:
So it does seem like kind of this chance that restarting, getting reenergized and thinking about our organizations and where we wanted to go. Um Yes, we have to keep in mind some of those um risks that we talked about in previous shows but we also have to think about kind of where we want to go. What of our, what our dreams are um what our vision is for the organization? Had we properly captured it? Um, what is our mission? Is that sort of properly captured? Is everything because our environment seems to be changing week by week. It seems to be new stuff that comes up that we have to consider. Are we still on track with where we want to go? So having these sort of broader discussions. I like sending those organizational priorities for the new year.

[00:04:06.64] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Um, what would you, what what priority would you like to start with?

[00:06:07.94] spk_1:
Sure. So, um, being the lawyer, I say, okay, let’s talk about legal compliance just to make sure we’ve got some systems in place, mission and values, which we’ve frequently emphasized them when we’ve had discussions about not just existing to further your mission, but to do it in a way that advances your values and if equity and inclusion of part of those values, then, you know, that’s something you should be thinking about as well, definitely considering some of the trends that are out there. And I know we’ll get into that a little bit later in the show, but also including kind of the times that we’re we live in and acknowledging that yes, we’re under the impact of Covid, which seems to be shifting constantly in both how it’s affecting us and how we might need to respond to it. The great resignation, which certainly isn’t completely unrelated to the Covid, but that is a huge trend and movement as we’re trying to figure out how do we keep our workers, are we burning them out? The mental health issues that are, you know, hitting pretty much all of us, um, from the isolation, remote, working from the uncertainties of health, from sick family members and loved ones and all of that and saying, well, are we going to be able to keep our team together? Should we be keeping our team together the way we’re working now? Do we need to shift our work practices? Do we need to shift what type of benefits for giving to them? All of those things have got to be sort of raised? And I would say raise at the board level, you know, together with the executives and senior management team. Let’s talk about it. Let’s brainstorm think about this and get what our organizational priorities are this year, because things can change rapidly and rapid change if you don’t have any plans um, to anticipate some of them don’t have contingency plans can force you into very, very stressful times where immediate actions are necessary and you can sometimes make bad decisions if you’re under that type of time stress. So

[00:06:18.63] spk_0:
then it because then it becomes a crisis

[00:06:20.30] spk_1:
right? Exactly.

[00:06:48.64] spk_0:
And and a crisis in staffing, especially knowing how hard it is to hire folks now, you know, you talked about, you know, keeping the team together or should we keep should we keep the team together? But, you know, I’m sure you’re seeing it with your clients. The difficulty in hiring, you know, you want to, that, that, that’s a, that’s a huge factor in, you know, do we have the right team? Well, putting the right team together, it’s gonna take a lot longer than it used to?

[00:08:01.94] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. And if you’re talking about retention, you got to figure out what are you going to invest in this? I know you want to, you know, provide as much as you can to your beneficiaries. But if you’re not really considering the team of people in, you know, on your team that are providing those services that are supporting those services, the whole thing can collapse. So just remember where your infrastructure and when your groundwork is and how important the human resources are in your organization to being able to deliver services and provide goods for your charitable missions. So really important not to neglect that. And that requires an investment both on retention and if you aren’t able to retain everybody and you need to recruit, you’re gonna have to be able to show what you’re going to invest in those new employees and give them time to learn. You can’t expect them to perform like experience people have, um, in the past. So it’s, you know, some patients, um, and definitely investment in education and training and orientation, um, and all the rest and again, um, to the extent that your executive is probably also overwhelmed with everything else going on. The board is really pivotal in trying to be able to come up with plans that help invest in their teams.

[00:08:10.44] spk_0:
This goes to legal audit the conversation we had a few months ago. You’d like to see a review of governing documents to.

[00:09:31.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I I always think that that’s a great thing to check out in the new year. Just even if you have somebody, you know, a higher up kind of a board member or where your executive or senior manager take a look At your articles and bylaws, even spending 30 minutes on it and saying is our mission really reflected in these documents or have we evolved into something else? And these documents are like stale and old and outdated now in that case those documents still rule. So if you have the I. R. S. Or a state regulator coming in audit you, if you’re not performing within that mission statement in your articles and bylaws, you could be acting completely out of compliance and worst case scenario, you can really threaten the organization through penalties, etcetera. So that’s something to take a look at. Also just take a look at a lot of organizations. I find out their their boards, they’re like, oh, you know, we forgot to elect them. You know, we, we, you know, we’ve had terms, you know of two years but they’ve been on for like 10 years and we’re happy with them. So we just don’t do elections that can be really, really harmful as well for multiple reasons. But you know, sit back, see what you’re doing and what you’re not doing consistent with your articles and bylaws. And if you need to change things determine that you have to change. And if you need the help of a lawyer, try to find somebody that can help you with that. And there are some good resources on the web as well.

[00:09:48.64] spk_0:
What’s, what’s one of the good resources?

[00:10:15.04] spk_1:
A little bit of a self plug because I’m a board member, but board source has excellent resources on board of directors, governance things of that nature. Stanford University also has excellent resources in terms of sort of template documents that are just a guide for nonprofits. It’s not one size fits all, but it just gives you a general idea about how some things operate. Um, so those are just too good resources to look at.

[00:10:18.35] spk_0:
And, and again, we, we talked about this extensively in the show called your one

[00:10:24.34] spk_1:
hour legal audit.

[00:10:30.14] spk_0:
You have some last one. You have some financial performance advice for the new year.

[00:13:04.74] spk_1:
Yeah. Well I think probably, um, most people take a look at their financials throughout the year on the board level and on the executive level. Um, but the new year, you’ve actually sort of completed your financials and they might not be, um, in final form yet, but you might have what some people call it pro form, a set of financials, um, sort of close to final, where you get to assess what you’ve done in the year, you know, for, for most organizations, this goes without saying, but you want to make sure that you’re performing in a way that you’re not becoming insolvent. So you want to make sure what your balance sheet looks like and whether you have net assets, um, if you don’t have net assets, that means that you are either insolvent or, you know, in the zone of insolvency, you have to think about how you’re going to address that very serious issue. And I would say you don’t have internal expertise on dealing with it, get outside help right away if that’s the case. But your, your statement of revenues and expenses as well, are you sort of operating what people call in the black so that there is, you know, some net income in there or are you operating in the red where you’re very concerned because you’re losing money, timing is always important. So it’s misleading to look at one year in isolation because sometimes grants are given in one year, but they’re actually uh received in another year. So the timing issue can pose different challenges about reading financials. So you want to be able to read it sort of collectively through a multi year period just to know where you stand. And again, if board members aren’t able to help an executive and the executive feels like they need some help with understanding financials, to reading financials invest in everybody’s training in this area and there are a lot of people, even pro bono, that, that are offering this training pro bono and a lot of resources on the web. So make sure you understand your financials and what they’re indicating. You don’t need to know every single financial ratio that you know, business people use, but just generally no. Are you healthy financially or are you trending bad? And if you have several years where you’re in the red, where you, where you’re not making money, it looks like you’re bleeding money, then that might be indicative of some change that’s necessary in order to make your organization sustainable on an ongoing basis. So again, you don’t want to hit crisis mode financially. So this is a good chance, take a look at your financials, not just last year, but over a multiyear period and see where you are, get help if you need it.

[00:15:08.54] spk_0:
We have a show that I replayed, oh, I think within the past six months, uh, the guest was Andy Robinson. So you could go to tony-martignetti dot com and just search his name Andy Robinson, but it was something like teaching your board basic financials and he wrote a book, I’m pretty sure it was published by charity channel, uh, with, with a title similar to that. So if you, and the show is a few years old, but reading financial statements and and balance sheets hasn’t changed much in probably 100 years. Um, so it’s just all in and out now now, it’s all in Excel. But uh, so if you’d like some help with that, there is a, there is a show where Andy Robinson was the guest talking about, you’re improving your boards, financial literacy. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications, your 2022 communications plan. Does it have lots of projects? Lots of writing projects? You can get the biggest projects off your plate and outsource them. Free up staff time to devote to the work that it’s not feasible to have others doing for you. Like the annual report, just because it’s been done in house in the past, doesn’t mean it has to be done in house this year. What about research reports, White papers, your other heavy lift pieces. Do you need help with writing projects in 2022, Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Now, back to legal outlook for 2022 with Gene Takagi. Okay, so let’s talk about some trends then, jean, you have a, you have a case we haven’t talked about, we haven’t talked about an actual case for a while. Americans for prosperity.

[00:19:16.54] spk_1:
Yeah. So um that was a huge U. S. Supreme Court case at least huge for the nonprofit sector. Um, but with deeper implications for if I if I’m not over hyping it for democracy itself. So um so americans for prosperity, Foundation versus Banta, who was the California Attorney general basically it was about the schedule be disclosure of donors who donated more than $5000. So for nonprofits who know how to prepare their form 19 nineties, you’ll know that on schedule B of your form 1990. Eur actually disclosing to the I. R. S. It’s not public information. Um But it’s to the I. R. S. The name and address of your donors who donated more than $5000. Now that hasn’t changed, you still have to disclose it to the I. R. S. But certain states, including California where volunteers from as the attorney general um New york I believe New Jersey I believe Hawaii also included Um all asked for a copy of the 990 including an unredacted schedule B to be given to the state regulator because they also want to look at that information for state law compliance purposes. A lot of them are concerned about donors who give money but get something back in return that’s not being disclosed. So if they ever have to have an investigation of that, that information turns out to be very helpful to the state to be able to say ah they were giving money but they also took in this huge benefit, this huge contract for example, which you know, reap them millions of dollars. Um So there was a legal case um that went up through the courts um finally hit the U. S. Supreme Court and the A. G. Lost here, The California G. Um So the court decided and we know the court’s composition is fairly conservative right now. The court decided that uh the states don’t have this right. Um It was based on the fact finding of the lower courts which is a little bit unfortunate because if the higher court could have considered more facts, then it might have been decided a different way but based on kind of how how our legal system works and and and how the Supreme Court works and the composition of the Supreme Court. They held that, hey this is not disclosed able to the states essentially that’s the impact of it. The broader impact on why I said democracy might be uh issue here is because well what about sort of campaign finance disclosures? And what about the I. R. S. Should they be entitled to that information as well? So it’s really helpful in compliance. But the counter argument and why some organizations charities, we’re also um not in favor of the disclosures is because of the protection of the donor. And the old case cited um in this part of the argument was an N double A cp case that said, well, if we disclose our donors, the KKK had threatened to kill all of them. Um And you can see why privacy was important in that issue and this issue, it was nothing like this. I think it’s a Koch brothers, um, kind of funded charity. They wanted really to keep their identity, um, more hidden because they have desires to influence politics in many ways. And if it always gets associated with them, then the impact lessons. So if they can look like they’re ground swells of movements that are funding these things rather than individual donors, um, it looks better for for what they’re trying to do. So that’s, you know, that’s what’s at stake here is not only are the state’s not allowed to get this information that would really help them in state law enforcement of whether there’s diversion of charitable assets that benefit

[00:19:29.74] spk_0:
donors. But

[00:19:30.15] spk_1:
in the broader sense, are we going to allow more dark money to enter into our political systems without knowing that there are donors, heavy donors that back these, you know, politicians or political parties or political movements. So that’s the scary part about this decision.

[00:19:57.94] spk_0:
What’s the, I think infamous Supreme Court case that that allowed the allowed the dark money into, uh, into politics. United

[00:20:02.73] spk_1:
Citizens. United

[00:20:27.54] spk_0:
United. Yeah. Um, All right. All right. And so I just want to repeat this. So this case that Gene was just talking about is americans for prosperity Foundation V. Banta B. O. N. T. A. What about crowdfunding you, you point out that there’s a new crowdfunding law. Hope is this a little more optimistic? I hope?

[00:21:22.54] spk_1:
Uh, well, depending upon how you look at it. And I think in one sense it’s inevitable. Um, a lot of our laws that are developed regarding fundraising, um, don’t even, and never anticipated the internet, right, johnny. So, uh, you know, now crowdfunding platform is, you know, not just the internet, the use of the internet, but it’s a lot of different for profit companies getting involved, um, to enable charities and organizations and people who are not charities to raise funds that look like they could be for charitable purposes, Right? So you want to help victims of a fire, but you want to help them directly, because some individuals said, I want to start a Go fund Me campaign, right? And say, well, you know, chip in 50 bucks and let’s try to get these people some help doesn’t, that doesn’t go through a charity. Often it just goes to this person, right, who promises to give these other people money

[00:21:35.90] spk_0:
and go funding the person’s goodwill. Honestly, yeah,

[00:21:58.14] spk_1:
Go fund Me is, you know, reacted to this and they’re probably the biggest crowdfunding platforms. So they’ve reacted to this in terms of having their own internal policies to help prevent a check. But overall, there’s, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of crowdfunding platforms out there that do this to make a profit. Um, and they may not have those types of controls or checks to not to just, you know, prevent somebody from saying, let’s raise money to help fire victims and then just keeping it. Um, so,

[00:22:11.97] spk_0:
what, what, what is the import of the law for, for us?

[00:23:21.34] spk_1:
So I think the import of the law is, if you’re going to get on and decide, hey, we want to do crowdfunding, um, you’ve got to select your platform provider carefully and this law, which is in California, but is likely to spread across different states in various forms, says, well now, if you’re gonna do that, you’ve got to make sure that this crowdfunding platform is registered. Um, and they’re reporting and there are all sorts of rules involved. So if you have a contract with them, it should be subject to these rules that might say things like, well, if they collect money, they have to give the money to the charity within a certain time period. Right? So they couldn’t say, well, it takes this administration, so maybe a couple of years before you get that, you know, nobody’s gonna be happy with that, but without rules, why not? Um, so these are, this is why it’s important for charities to have rules. The actual details of the rules. So I can see why some people have some, some issue with them. And we haven’t had all of the regulations yet, they’re still in discussion. So this is very, Still very trending, but the crowdfunding law, the law, the general law that’s in place now will become effective in California in 2023, and the regulations are being developed right now,

[00:23:58.04] spk_0:
let’s turn to remote work, which is obviously so much more common now. Hybrid work, you know, return to work dates are being pushed off and off. Um What what are what are what are what trends are you seeing? What should be on, will you be on the lookout for with respect to uh remote work and employment law issues?

[00:25:10.84] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s, you know, this is a really tricky area. Um you know, for sure, Covid where people were suddenly not permitted to to go indoors in some cases for months. Um and who knows if, you know, we’re going to return to some of those scenarios with the omicron variant out there, We’re hoping that it’s less um severe in terms of its impact, even if it might be a more transmissible, but if we if we keep worrying about this and saying, you know, our workers aren’t comfortable coming to work, even if the law allows them to come to work. Um Maybe we’re going to let people work remotely, and many of us have gone full remote, some of us have gone back to partial returns, some have gone back to full returns and then gone back, you know out the other way and said, okay, you know, it’s at the workers discretion whether they want to come in or not. So what makes us a little bit tricky. Um is that you don’t control the work environment as the employer, if they’re working at home, right? Um but that becomes the work environment, if they’re doing work from home, that’s their work environment, and, you know, the employer is responsible for the work environment if they should get hurt, for example,

[00:25:22.94] spk_0:
um

[00:26:56.24] spk_1:
So it becomes a little bit tricky about, well, how do you, how do you handle that for workers comp reasons, for safety reasons, for OSHA reasons? Um and I think there’s an understanding by regulators that, you know, this is out of control of most small businesses, small charities and, you know, to to that extent, we’re not really gonna look to enforce things on that level, but there are other things that, that are also concerning, because not everybody goes when, when they decide to work remote, we work in the same city or in the same state, right. A lot of us um have decided to, you know, maybe move back with family, which might be in another state. In some cases it could be another country, or some of us have decided to travel and spend a little bit of time, you know, in different places. Um So how does allow treat that? And basically, you know, the old rules, which are the rules, many of us are stuck with. Um the old rules are, well, you have to comply with the laws where the worker is doing the work, so if you have a worker in new york who’s now working remotely and came out to florida, well, then all the employment rules regarding worker safety and wage and hour laws and salary, overtime, sick pay benefits, all the florida laws apply to that worker now. Um, and so now it’s like, well, you’ve got to work in florida, you’ve got to think about, are you qualified to do business in

[00:27:00.21] spk_0:
florida,

[00:27:36.94] spk_1:
charity registration in florida? Um, and you may have had no connection to florida before, but all of a sudden you have a worker working there. Um, so a few states, um, and they’re not very many, but a few states that said, well, you know, during covid, we’ve got these temporary rules where we’re relaxed, where you don’t have to do that. And there’s also state tax issues, right? State payroll taxes, and, and other times, all of those things, some states said, you don’t have to worry about it. A lot of organizations are simply not complying with, But,

[00:27:37.49] spk_0:
but you said it’s only a handful of states that said, we’re we’re we’re not enforcing

[00:27:42.14] spk_1:
right. Exactly.

[00:27:43.33] spk_0:
The majority of

[00:29:01.34] spk_1:
states are, Yeah, well, I shouldn’t say they’re enforcing, but they haven’t the old laws or the existing laws still apply. There are no transition laws, so you’re out of compliance. And if they do enforce, which might not be like a, you know, a regulator coming out to you and saying you haven’t done this, it may be your employee is unhappy with something you’ve done, who’s working there and said, hey florida law applies and you haven’t been complying with the florida sort of benefits laws that, that apply. And maybe I could give you more specific example because san Francisco, if you came out to California, your remote employee came out to California, san Francisco has mandatory six hours and not a lot, a lot of states don’t have sick our pay. Um, but all of a sudden if you’re not paying them and they get wind of that, hey, you were supposed to pay me for this and you haven’t been, it’s the employee who could launch the complaint. Um, so it’s just to be careful of these things and, and just as your strategy for charity registration, tony when you’re sort of fundraising all over the country to, to, you’re not going to be able to maybe do all 50 states at once, but just to make sure you’ve got a plan to attack this kind of the same thing here. Um, check out where your employees are, you should know exactly where they are and check each state in terms of how strictly, maybe in terms of enforcing this and start to slowly comply

[00:30:12.74] spk_0:
the implications of state law. Yeah. What about the technology remote work? I don’t know if that’s all been figured out yet and maybe there were, maybe there were stopgap measures during the, during the, the darkest part of the pandemic, but but going forward, you know, tech technology has to be, has to be upgraded. You know, are we gonna, we’re gonna continue providing work phones? Are we going to provide work laptops? What about paying for internet access over the long term? I mean, you know, the internet access can be costly. And if if work is taking up a lot of the bandwidth, isn’t it appropriate for an employer to be paying a portion? And then how do then how does the, how does the, what’s the mechanism for the employee verifying how much they pay and you know, and then what percentage are we gonna cover of that, all the all the technology issues around, around remote work.

[00:30:58.44] spk_1:
Yeah, def definitely. And and as an as an employer, I would say, beyond sort of any legal compliance issues, um, you’ve got a, I think an ethical issue to make sure you’re providing your employees with the tools to do their job. And if you’re allowing remote work, you should make sure that they have the tools. So if they need a computer to be able to access it, so they’re not, they’re not using their personal computer. Um then you should make sure that happens same thing with the telephone. And if, you know, if those are going to be dedicated to work, um it should be explicitly written out that way. But if you force them to use their personal things, there are some states that actually do have laws that say you must reimburse your your employees if they’re using the tools that they need um for for remote work, but just ethically. Yeah.

[00:31:18.74] spk_0:
But then that’s then that raises security issues too. Absolutely. They have any kind of HIPPA protected information on their personal laptop. That’s gonna be a big problem. That that’s I think that’s probably a mistake if you’re dealing with that kind of data. But um

[00:32:01.74] spk_1:
and don’t we probably all have that type of stuff on our personal computers, right? You know, sort of HIPPA protected? We may have had emails like that are saved onto our computers. Um Right. So if if the computer is also being used for work and there’s a work issue that causes that data to be taken or corrupted, like, you know, what’s the employer’s responsibility if they hadn’t provided an alternative, it’s a great point

[00:32:50.94] spk_0:
and and it’s not only hip hop data, but other other personalized data that that maybe on now the personals, the employee’s personal computer, desktop or laptop or phone, you know, how is that? How is that private private data protected? Do they have malware prevention on their on their personal devices so that so that company emails that they’re that they’re using on their personal device aren’t potentially compromised. I mean, the use of the personal equipment raises a lot of technology and and Legal privacy and ethical issues to your right. I mean, if the person is eight or 10 hours a day, they’re using their personal laptop, shouldn’t there be some compensation for that?

[00:34:46.94] spk_1:
Yeah. And I think minimally because no matter you know how much we encourage people to have sort of work dedicated computers provided by the workplace, people are going to use their personal phones. I mean we can go back to the politicians who have all been using their personal funds. So we know it happens regardless of what the best practices. But what can the employer do, they can pay for all of that data protection stuff that that computer should have. Right, tony because now it has much more sensitive information on there and the employer is partly responsible for some of the other information that could be on there and hack. So yeah, employers should help. And that kind of leads us to the whole data security issue as well that everybody’s got to be paying attention to now is really um nonprofits have important data in their system. Some of it is, you know, hipaa protected some of it is other privacy information. You may have employment reviews on there that you don’t want going out into the real world or client, you know, feedback which might be positive. Some of it might be negative sensitive communications, all sorts of stuff that you might find on a work computer and if it gets hacked and if that data gets stolen or if somebody holds the system which might run your programs or aspects of your programs if they cause your system to crash and say that they will only sort of fix it because they’ve hacked and caused the crash. If you pay a ransom, you’ve got all sorts of problems. Uh and maybe some of that may have been mitigated with some basic steps like you mean you’re not going to be, well even the U. S. Government can’t prevent all hackers. I think we we know that, but you can take reasonable steps based on your budget, whatever that might be to to control some of this. So it really is important to have some safeguards.

[00:34:55.74] spk_0:
Another potential category of data is the G. D. P. R. Data. If if if your nonprofit is implicated at all in in that european common law law then or the yeah then then you’ve got those concerns as well.

[00:35:08.94] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. So if you have european donors or you’re doing business with any european entities and you have data from those entities or persons be careful and again, remote working can trigger some of that. So if if they decided to, you know their home or or they want to travel to europe and do their work from there.

[00:35:28.74] spk_0:
Um,

[00:35:29.74] spk_1:
all sorts of implications.

[00:37:44.03] spk_0:
Yeah. Absolutely right. People very good point where where people are sitting and where they’re planted when they’re working, It’s time for Tony Take two We’ve got 50% off the tuition for planned giving accelerator. That’s because just last week A donor stepped up someone who believes very deeply in planned giving accelerator and he is offering to pay 50% of the tuition For the 1st 10 nonprofits that take him up on his offer. A couple have already done it as of the time I’m recording, but there are several spots left. So if you’ve been toying with the idea of planned giving accelerator, it’s never going to be cheaper than 50% off. What the way this will work is. You’ll pay the tuition in full, which is $1195 for the six month course. This donor will then make a gift to you of half of that. So you’ll have a new donor, he’ll pay half your tuition. So it ends up being 50% off the full tuition cost. I know the donor, it’s someone I trust you have my word. Your final cost will be half of the full tuition if you’d like to jump on this and be one of the members of what is now our february class. I want to give people enough time for this because it, it just came in last week. So I’m extending, we’re, we’re not gonna start the class until february if you’d like to be part of that february class At 50% off email and we’ll, we’ll talk about planned giving accelerator and whether it can help you launch your planned giving program. Mhm. tony at tony-martignetti dot com. That’s me. That is Tony’s take two, We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for legal outlook for 2022

[00:38:01.22] spk_1:
one and one of the tools to think about and I’m a little bit guilty of this as well um is be careful of public wifi um because that often is an entryway for a

[00:38:03.83] spk_0:
hacker. Yeah, that’s totally unsecured airports, airplanes,

[00:38:09.89] spk_1:
coffee shops,

[00:38:13.42] spk_0:
coffee shops, Starbucks, wherever those are, all unsecured networks.

[00:38:29.32] spk_1:
Right? Meaning that there is the potential for somebody in there who has some malicious intent if they want to be able to hack into to your computer through that public wifi. Unsecured wifi. And there are different systems um but maybe one of the simplest for for those of us who have smartphones, which I think is most of us is you could actually create a sort of a private wifi just

[00:38:52.92] spk_0:
for your smartphone, right? Hotspot? Hotspot and don’t use the unsecured wifi to connect to, you know, use the uh the four G or five G or the five GHZ et cetera.

[00:38:56.17] spk_1:
Right? And that’s something an employer could pay to make sure that the employee has significant data and data plan that can incorporate all the additional data that they may need in their plan because of the work. So again, that would be reasonable and and ethical for the nonprofit employer to pay for their employees to have a higher data plan. Um, if they’re going to to use that and insist as a policy that they do not use public wifi. If they’re using a work computer or a computer that contains work and sensitive information,

[00:39:36.52] spk_0:
all you need is to transmit an email on, on an unsecured wifi that that has a donors credit card number, maybe

[00:39:38.77] spk_1:
native

[00:39:58.12] spk_0:
birth address, name any, any two of those things together, uh, hacked could be very detrimental to that donor. And you know, whether it ever gets traced back to you is is uncertain, but you’ve, you’ve put your donors privacy at risk in a simple email that has any two of those pieces of information.

[00:40:04.31] spk_1:
And it appears to be a myth, um, when people have relied on, they’re not going to go after us because we’re nonprofits, people don’t go

[00:40:12.29] spk_0:
after. Oh, that’s bullshit. Oh, that’s ridiculous.

[00:40:14.57] spk_1:
Right?

[00:40:22.61] spk_0:
I’m working with a client now that, that is a, is in new york city that’s, that’s, um, victim of, of a malware, uh, ransomware, so brought me a ransomware attack.

[00:40:27.61] spk_1:
Yeah.

[00:40:40.41] spk_0:
And they’re keeping it quiet so I’m not permitted to say who it is. But um, yeah, they’ve, they’ve been, they’ve been hindered for weeks and weeks with data accessibility issues.

[00:40:42.71] spk_1:
Yeah. And it’s much more common than we think because organizations do want to keep it quiet because if there is a vulnerability, they don’t want to come and say other hackers come come and attack us, we’re vulnerable. So it may be much more pervasive than we think

[00:40:57.61] spk_0:
and that myth also breaks down along ideological

[00:41:00.04] spk_1:
lines.

[00:41:21.61] spk_0:
Some some person on the left may may attack an organization on the right. Some person on the right may attack an organization on the left just because of where the organization stands with respect to the person’s political and ideological beliefs that that that’s enough. It doesn’t matter that you’re a nonprofit. It’s it’s your ideology and your mission. It has nothing to do with your tax exempt status as to why somebody would or wouldn’t go after you.

[00:41:28.41] spk_1:
Yeah and um in these times that those ideological differences have been very um pronounced and. Yeah.

[00:41:41.11] spk_0:
Alright where else should we go? Gene with trends, trends for the new year. Come on.

[00:44:24.69] spk_1:
Um Let’s talk a little bit since we’re talking about technology and data security. Let’s talk a little bit about crypto currency because I find that pretty fascinating. Um There was an organization that came together and bid $40 million on a copy of the U. S. Constitution just a few weeks ago. Um That money the $40 million plus more I think about 47 or $48 million was raised for that purpose in less than two weeks. Um So um Cryptocurrency donors um often have made a ton of money because of the appreciation of cryptocurrencies like. Bitcoin for for those who aren’t super familiar with it. Um And if you donate Cryptocurrency, it’s like donating a non cash asset, meaning that if You bought crypto currency for $1,000 10 years ago and it’s worth now several million dollars, which if you bought the red Cryptocurrency, that might be the case if you sold it, uh you would have a lot of taxes to pay on that appreciation right? The several million dollars of appreciated income that would be subject to capital gains tax. Um So if you sold it and donated some of the proceeds, that would not be a very tax efficient way to donate. When if you donated the Cryptocurrency itself, what you do is you get to take a fair market value deduction of the several million dollars. So you gave several million. So potentially you could deduct that is a charitable contribution and pay no capital gains tax because he never sold it. Um So very tax efficient way of giving um And Cryptocurrency people, wealthy millionaires and others who decided that they wanted see some positive impact um from giving these gifts are are making gifts of Cryptocurrency now and that’s that’s partly why I am so many gathered together to say hey we’d like to fund a charity to buy a copy of the U. S. Constitution so that we can ensure that this constitution is always for the public’s benefit and on public viewership and not sitting in somebody’s house, you know for for their own prestige. Um But that really opens it up, cherish. Think about there’s a lot of these people who made quite a bit of money on Cryptocurrency and a lot of younger people are investing barely heavily in Cryptocurrency now. So it’s something to not sort of blow away if we’re um kind of our age or older, tony to say, Cryptocurrency, what is that? It’s it’s something to really embrace now because it’s it’s not just this exotic tool now, it’s part of regular investment portfolios.

[00:45:56.79] spk_0:
Absolutely, it’s it’s it’s coming and and jean this dovetails perfectly with Our November 15 show of 2021 Bitcoin in the future of fundraising with my guests who are an Connolly and Jason shim who wrote a book Bitcoin in the future of fundraising. So, um it’s do you it’s just more, more sage advice that crypto donations are coming. It’s not a matter of if it’s just when are you gonna get on board now or you’re gonna wait two more years and potentially be behind the curve. Um and as an and Jason pointed out today, there are so few organizations accepting crypto that a lot of people are just searching for. Where can I donate? Cryptocurrency and probably largely, Gene for the reasons you’re describing there, They’re looking for a direct crypto donation to help them with substantial capital gains. Are there specific legal implications of crypto donations that that we need to be aware of or or is it just, you know, you just want folks to know that this trend is, it’s in the middle, it’s happening right now.

[00:48:15.97] spk_1:
So I think, you know, one of the reasons why charities are afraid to take Kryptos because they don’t know what laws apply when they receive the crypto. They’re like, what do we do with this? Um, and there are ways to easily cash that out and turn it into us cash. And in fact, most charities that accept crypto and they’re not a lot, you’re right, tony but most carriers that accept them liquidate them immediately turned them into cash and deposited into fiat currency, like regular paper currency, um, in their bank accounts. Um, So they’re not holding onto the crypto very long at all. One of the reasons why that’s, that can be very important is because there are prudent investor rules for charities that don’t apply to for profits that basically say if you’ve got investment assets, charities, this is not just endowments, but just any sort of investment assets for reserves or for a capital fund or anything you can’t invest. It speculatively, you couldn’t just throw it all in like Apple stock, um that would be too speculative. You have to look at it, uh, through what financial professionals, investment professionals called portfolio theory, are you sufficiently um, have an investment portfolio diversified across several different asset classes? So if one bombs, you haven’t tanked all of your money. Um, and the board of directors have a fiduciary duty to live up to the prudent investment laws that also sort of follow this portfolio theory of how how have you actually divest? Sorry? Um diversify Yeah. Um your your funds across different investment classes to protect yourself and there are different considerations that go along with that. Um But that is one reason why you don’t want to get stuck with all of your investments being in crypto because crypto maybe one of the most volatile type of investments where it can double in a matter of days and it could tank and disappear in a matter of days as well. So depending upon what type of Cryptocurrency you have and there are hundreds if not thousands of crypto types of Cryptocurrency um that have evolved in a lot of people and organizations that are making new coins all the time. So new new forms of Cryptocurrency arising and while we talked about crypto as being a part of more investment portfolios as a normal part of of investments. Now it’s not every Cryptocurrency that would be in that it’s certainly one

[00:48:47.07] spk_0:
1000 right? Some of these thousands trade for thousands of pennies, Thousands Yeah thousands of pennies even you know .0001 three zeros and a one is you know is the value of the currency. Um So. Alright that’s perfect as I said, perfect dovetail to that to that uh that november show because you’re you’re raising the prudent investor rule and and uh portfolio theory.

[00:50:07.66] spk_1:
One more thing on this, tony the forms the I. R. S. Forms for when you get Non cash contributions of more than $500. And how quickly you sell them. Um Also applies to form 82 83 is what the donor needs to sign when they give a non cash contribution of over $500 of over $500. And if it’s over $5000 which many crypto gifts are, they have to get a qualified appraisal for this. So that’s really important. And the Dhoni which is the charity has to sign that form for the donor. And then if the donor the Dhoni, I’m sorry the charity sells it within three years, they have to sign a form 80 to 82. Yeah so that’s again it’s not terribly hard. It sounds like a lot of just legalese I’m blabbing out but it’s not too hard but just take a quick look at those. If you decide that you want to start getting Cryptocurrency and at worst you might ask your donor to find a donor advised fund that takes crypto turns it into cash and then disperses it to the charity. So there are donor advised funds that do that

[00:50:15.76] spk_0:
interesting. Okay so so a Cryptocurrency donation is a non cash donation

[00:50:19.90] spk_1:
correct?

[00:50:58.76] spk_0:
Okay and for non cash donations of $500 or more, That’s where your your donor has the implication of i. r. s. Form 82 83. And you as the charity if you sell it within three years which your advice is that they do because it’s of its volatility Then you’ve got the implication of i. r. s. Form 80 – 82. I always thought those were backwards. The donors should have 80 to 82 because that comes first. Then comes 82 83 from the don’t to the Dhoni first the donor has it. Then the charity should be 80 to 82 82 83. But it’s not It’s 82 83 for your donor and 80 – 82 for you.

[00:51:06.16] spk_1:
That sounds like larry david logic. But that’s how I think as well.

[00:51:10.58] spk_0:
Yeah. I’ve been accused of being larry David in lots of ways. Including my my hair when it’s long like it is

[00:51:16.23] spk_1:
now. I’ve

[00:51:33.46] spk_0:
been accused of looking like Larry David. But we’re not complaining, we’re helping. That’s all right. Um Alright let’s leave us with something else. Another trend for the new year that you want us to be thinking about gene. Um

[00:51:36.96] spk_1:
Let me talk a little bit about diversity equity and inclusion. Since we’ve we’ve talked about that in the

[00:51:42.21] spk_0:
past. You could search jean and I have talked about D. I a bunch of times. But

[00:53:46.05] spk_1:
yeah please. You know I think in combination when we talk about the great migration and how the pandemic might be affecting different populations in different ways that we start to think again about kind of? Well if our charity is doing some some mission and we might not think of that mission as being really reflective of of specific races or or anything like that. Um But could D. E. I. B. Important anyway. And I think that’s where we get to think about. Well if we had more perspectives in our organization, if if we’re lacking some of those perspectives now, for example not having a lot of latin thinks Hispanics or blacks or asian americans on the board or in the leadership group, maybe we’re not really thinking about how our services that we’re delivering are affecting different populations differently. Maybe we’re just sort of providing services but we’re focused on urban centers or urban centers where if we’re center based, our center based is in neighborhoods that are much more accessible to uh white populations versus other populations. So getting different perspectives, even if we think of ourselves as being race neutral, which is kind of a charged term. But I’ll just use it for for these purposes. If we think some of us think of ourselves as race neutral and therefore we don’t have to get involved in the D. E. I work. We want to say, well don’t we care about serving our population in a way that’s kind of fair and not just favoring one segment over other segments or just totally neglecting certain segments of the population because they don’t have the same type of access. Have we ever thought about those things and having diversity can help us think about those things. Um, but it has to be done obviously in an inclusive way, which we’ve talked about and I know we just have a few minutes here, but it’s

[00:54:03.34] spk_0:
sort of it’s touching on, you know, not knowing what you don’t know without without having the perspective of diverse populations on your board, in your leadership, then you don’t know how you’re not serving other non white populations. Yeah. And even when we were perceived by other by by non white populations.

[00:55:32.64] spk_1:
Yeah, exactly. And even when we say, well when we look at a group of people and we say diversity, you know, that has one meaning. But sometimes when we just look in our inside our own heads, uh, and when people go unconscious bias, for example, try to think about what that is. It’s like, well if we don’t have the benefit of having different perspectives are being exposed to that all of our lives and none of us have all of the perspectives in our lives. So we were all going to be guilty of some sort of unconscious bias because we just don’t know any better. We we haven’t had other information that would have help develop a sensitivity or understanding or just knowledge of some of the disparities that are out there. So, and and how our organization can be either helping those disparities or hindering them. So just getting a sense of where we’d like to go. I think that can improve employee retention. It can lead us to new areas of employee recruitment and it can make us more relevant as organizations in the future, where if we’re not addressing some of these things, we could find ourselves becoming irrelevant less attractive to future donors, especially younger donors who this is very important to. Um, and so that’s my, my closing thought. Mhm.

[00:55:48.24] spk_0:
All good thoughts for uh, for the new year for 2022, Gene Takagi are legal, legal contributor, Managing attorney of Neo. You’ll find him at nonprofit law blog dot com. He’s also at G attack and you’ll find the firm at neo law group dot com. Gene again, thank you very much. Happy New Year.

[00:55:57.39] spk_1:
Happy New Year. tony

[00:56:47.13] spk_0:
next week. I’m working on it very diligently. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by Turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Do you need help with any of those ready projects in 2022? Get them off your plate. A creative producer is claire Meyerhoff. The shows social media is by Susan Chavez Marc Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein. Mm hmm, thank you for that affirmation scotty Be with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for November 1, 2021: Risk Management II

My Guest:

Gene Takagi: Risk Management II

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi returns to complete our coverage of the risks lurking in your employee relations; facilities; events; and vehicles. Also, what to do to keep those risks at a minimum, so incidents don’t hurt your nonprofit. Gene is our legal contributor and principal at NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group. (Part I was on October 4th.)

 

 

 

Listen to the podcast

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Apple Podcast button

 

 

 

I love our sponsor!

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

 

We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Nonprofit Radio for October 4, 2021: Risk Management I

My Guest:

Gene Takagi: Risk Management I

Gene Takagi

You want to keep your nonprofit safe. To help you, Gene Takagi starts a 2-part mini-series on risk management. We kick off with indemnification. It sounds boring. But it’s a word with great significance for your board members, officers, employees; your contracts; even your sexual harassment policy. Gene is our legal contributor and the principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.

 

 

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I love our sponsor!

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

 

We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Nonprofit Radio for July 19, 2021: 550th Show!

My Guests:

Claire Meyerhoff, Scott Stein, Gene Takagi & Amy Sample Ward: 550th Show!

It’s Nonprofit Radio’s 11th Anniversary and 550th show! To celebrate, we’ve got the whole gang together. Claire Meyerhoff, our creative producer, co-hosts. We have live music from Scott Stein, composer of our theme music, Cheap Red Wine. Our esteemed contributors are with us: Gene Takagi and Amy Sample Ward. Join us!

 

 

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Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

 

Sendinblue: The only all-in-one digital marketing platform empowering nonprofits to grow.

 

We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:00:04.44] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit

[00:00:12.98] spk_1:
radio big non profit ideas

[00:00:15.56] spk_0:
for the other

[00:00:16.99] spk_1:
95

[00:00:17.62] spk_0:
percent. I’m your

[00:00:19.06] spk_1:
aptly named host

[00:00:20.37] spk_2:
of your

[00:00:20.88] spk_1:
favorite abdominal

[00:00:22.04] spk_0:
podcast,

[00:00:23.42] spk_2:
it’s

[00:00:49.34] spk_1:
R 550th show, you hear the live music, It’s our 11th anniversary welcome, welcome to the anniversary show, we’ve got live music and much more of that to come. We got lots of guests and the guests begin with my co host, Claire Meyerhoff, she’s our creative producer and principal of the plan to giving agency PG agency dot com. Claire, Welcome to the 11th anniversary 550th show,

[00:01:09.94] spk_2:
Tony I cannot believe that this is the 550th show because when I first spoke to you about this show, when we sat across from each other at a restaurant and cary north Carolina, I said to you, you want to do a radio show, are you crazy? Do you know how much work it is And you were like yes, I want to do this radio show And here we are, 550 shows later. It’s quite an accomplishment. Congratulations, Tony

[00:01:16.01] spk_1:
Thank you very much, Claire. Yes, we started in july of 2010. So you and I would have been having that lunch in cary north Carolina, probably

[00:01:25.58] spk_2:
25 years old,

[00:01:27.74] spk_1:
June of 2010. There was we

[00:01:35.74] spk_2:
Were like 26, years old then, you know, we were so young Now We’re pushing 40.

[00:01:39.94] spk_1:
No, we didn’t. Claire has always been a dreamer.

[00:01:41.38] spk_2:
I love them, I’m a dreamer.

[00:01:43.14] spk_1:
Uh we didn’t know what we were doing but I knew I wanted to do it. And you’ve been the creative creative juice since the beginning.

[00:02:16.54] spk_2:
I have been every once in a while. tony will hit me up, he’ll go Clara and I need some new something, something for this. You got something like yeah, I’ll read you something. There we go. That’s my job as creative creative producer. Was mostly at the beginning to be the creative producer. And what I said to Tony at the time was I said you know what I would really just like a credit on the show that way if it becomes really successful. My name is always like in this show and that’s really what I wanted. And over the years I’ve been working with clients and they go for you know I was on this thing and they said your name.

[00:02:19.54] spk_1:
I kept my word every every show, your credit to

[00:02:23.19] spk_2:
this creative producer, Clair Meyerhoff. Yeah. Doug White said that when he was a guest he was like I was on the tony-martignetti show and then at the end they said that you were you were a producer and I was like yes I

[00:02:33.15] spk_1:
am glad that

[00:02:34.33] spk_2:
beautiful with that beautiful

[00:02:35.38] spk_1:
bass voice that he has.

[00:02:36.67] spk_2:
Oh I know he should sell it

[00:02:42.54] spk_1:
Russia, It’s like honey, it’s like a sweet honey. It’s wonderful. So what’s going on with you and the PG agency?

[00:03:27.44] spk_2:
The agency, the plan giving agency. Well, you know, I’m a creative person as my title suggests on tony-martignetti non profit radio And so I am in the creative space of philanthropy and I kind of specialized in planned giving, which tony um is a very great expert on and so I help non profits make the most out of their burgeoning plan giving programs. And a lot of times it’s just they have nothing. And I come in and I create sort of a nice back end for them and help them talk to them a little bit about talking to their donors about making a gift of a lifetime, like leaving their favorite charity and their estate plans or is the beneficiary of a retirement plan and you know, all those wonderful things in the wonderful world of plan giving.

[00:03:43.84] spk_1:
Cool. Yes, I do know a couple things about it a lot and uh, welcome the creative energy that, that

[00:04:08.14] spk_2:
you bring. Not only I, but I learned a lot from you tony that’s how we first met, because I was writing an article for something and I, you were my expert and then I said, you know, I have to write this stuff and sometimes I don’t understand. And you said, well, you can reach out to me if you have a question about something. And I did, I’d say, well, what’s this or what’s that? And you’d explain it really well. And I still remember a lot of the things that you told me at the very beginning and I use those in my, in my practice today, such as, you know, spending a lot of time trying to reach and engage younger donors and tony was like, don’t you want the money sooner.

[00:04:17.47] spk_1:
I remember you were writing that article, I remember who you were writing it for two. Yes,

[00:04:22.27] spk_2:
yes, yes.

[00:04:34.44] spk_1:
That, that brought us together. Yes. And then I knew you had a background in radio. And so I I saw your, I saw your wisdom about starting a radio show. That’s, that’s the podcast of

[00:04:52.84] spk_2:
course. Exactly, Exactly. And so you built it out really as a radio show and it’s, it’s cool that way because a lot of times podcasts are kind of like podcasting, but if you do more, if you treat it more like a radio show, it’s a lot more robust and that’s what yours is. You have this very robust quote podcast that’s really more like a traditional radio show with a lot of elements that breaks and things like that. And so it’s really a radio show rather than a podcast to me

[00:05:02.14] spk_1:
and no, no, no surprise at that because Claire Meyerhoff was creative producer. So you, you coached me along and I had some nodules to copy like I was like the car talk guys and uh, but yeah, you were instrumental and help me put some of those elements in and thinking about it as

[00:05:17.06] spk_2:
radio but you did the work. A lot of work.

[00:05:34.24] spk_1:
Oh, thank you. Let’s bring scott stein in scott, Stein, Brooklyn new york composer, composer of our theme song, which we’re gonna hear in full, of course, Brooklyn new york based pianist, songwriter, arranger, conductor and music director. Scott stein music dot com scott. Welcome to the show.

[00:05:38.24] spk_4:
Thank you. Great to see you again, Tony and Claire. That’s uh we feel like we’re getting the band back together after every 50 shows, we get to do this. It’s the reunion

[00:05:47.55] spk_2:
tour where the snow happening

[00:06:00.44] spk_1:
were the snacks. Where’s the craft services? Yeah, no, absolutely scott. I love your, I still love the song, cheap red wine. Uh, it opens and closes every single show. I’m so glad that mutual lawyer friend of ours jo Becker brought us together.

[00:06:08.44] spk_4:
Yeah. My old roommate, back from, back from both of our bachelor days. Ohio

[00:06:11.79] spk_1:
Ohio Ohio State was it?

[00:06:19.34] spk_4:
Uh, I went to Ohio State. He was one of my roommates here in new york. Ah, okay. So

[00:06:21.64] spk_1:
because you’re originally an Ohio

[00:06:22.84] spk_4:
guy, right? I am. I’m originally from Akron Ohio and a graduate of the Ohio State University. Good bucks.

[00:06:30.64] spk_2:
I did not know that all those years. You’re from Akron. It’s near Toledo, right. Akron

[00:06:47.84] spk_4:
actually opposite part of the state. So yeah, well Toledo’s northwestern Ohio’s north. Excuse me. Akron is northeast is close to Cleveland. Oh, okay. You know, it’s okay. Most people mix up Akron and Dayton.

[00:06:52.04] spk_2:
Yes. Well Jaden’s in the south more towards like Louisville.

[00:06:55.21] spk_4:
Yeah, it’s called Cincinnati. The south,

[00:06:58.24] spk_2:
right, Cincinnati

[00:07:00.07] spk_1:
and scott. You just moved? You just did an intra Brooklyn

[00:07:20.44] spk_4:
move? I did. I just up the block same street about maybe four blocks north. Uh, yeah, so we moved in on friday. So it’s, it is a wonder that there are not more boxes on either side of me right now. There are some there just out of there, just out of picture right now. So

[00:07:23.82] spk_1:
is non profit radio your first gig since in the new apartment.

[00:07:47.14] spk_4:
Uh, well I guess it’s the first gig in the apartment. I had a gig just outside of the apartment yesterday and another one the day before that. So actually I moved at a rather busy work time, which was a little bit of a balancing act. All right, but we’re with you and then I’m going to be hitting the studio on Tuesday, starting in a new record. Our first session is Tuesday, so because that wasn’t busy enough, I thought I would squeeze in a problem into that because planning is something I am clearly very good at.

[00:08:02.84] spk_2:
Right? And then, and then you took on that catering job and that was really just the end of it all,

[00:08:08.01] spk_4:
you know?

[00:08:10.64] spk_0:
Uh,

[00:08:11.83] spk_4:
that’s, you know,

[00:08:12.79] spk_1:
he’s been doing some political consulting to. Right. Right. So we’re your inaugural gig in your new apartment. That’s what I, I like. I like being inaugural for anything. I find something

[00:08:40.14] spk_4:
inaugural. Yeah. Do I have because I’m not teaching over the summer, which is something I was doing over zoom the whole year um, and uh, and even ransom choir rehearsals over zoom when we’re during the pandemic before we could meet up in person and uh, so, but that’s been off for the last few weeks, last month or so, so yes, so this is the first zoom session in the new apartments.

[00:08:47.88] spk_1:
Outstanding. Very, a milestone to milestone. You’ll always treasure

[00:08:51.54] spk_4:
naturally. Indeed,

[00:08:52.81] spk_1:
it’s good. It’s really good to have you back with the uh, on the anniversary show, on the

[00:09:04.14] spk_4:
11th anniversary. Always, always happy to reconnect and like as they get the band back together. So great! All right,

[00:09:07.94] spk_1:
Claire

[00:09:14.24] spk_2:
tony I have something very important I want to talk about, We’re going to have the very first Tony awards.

[00:09:18.31] spk_0:
Now

[00:10:14.44] spk_2:
you might be thinking listeners that the Tony awards are all about broadway, but they’re not. They’re about guests from tony-martignetti non profit radio Those are the real Tony awards and today we’re going to pepper them throughout our show. So I’d like to give out the very first tony award and you know, an award requires an actual award. And I thought I’d let you guys choose. So should the award be a troll? Blue haired troll? All right. A fossil from Hack alito’s canyon in Coalinga California. These are fossil. Um sand dollars. Mhm. A nun. My friend Marianne gave me because we have a joke about nuns who run and this is a nun who runs or one of my mother’s antique little things that I saw and I thought, well that looks like an award. So what should we cheers guys troll fossil. None falls. That looks like an

[00:10:18.89] spk_4:
award. Well, when you mentioned none to broadway shows came to mind when with the sound of music and the other was sister act. So that gets my vote.

[00:11:24.14] spk_2:
All right, that’s going to be the award and not that everybody’s going to see it, but we’re not going to keep talking about. It’s a little it’s a little new guys will see it. We’ll just say it’s a little nun doll. It’s a little none. It runs you go like that. It runs across the counter. It’s like my little thing and Marianne, we joke about it a lot. Okay, so for the very first Tony award given out the award for very first guest goes to Yes, we’ll just do a little music under music. Music, Music, Music, dramatic, dramatic, tony Award. Music. Hi. And the award for very first guest goes to Steve Imparato Steve. Here’s your reward. Steve’s not here. I’ll accept in his in his accidents. So he was the very first guest on Tony-Martignetti non profit radio on July 23, 2010. So Tony how do you recall steve’s appearance on the show?

[00:11:40.94] spk_1:
Uh Well it was at that time it was the tony-martignetti show. Uh It was actually, I I hesitate to correct my esteemed creative producer. It was July 16. You’re you’re confused,

[00:11:42.12] spk_2:
You gave your 7 23. Okay, never mind

[00:11:45.97] spk_1:
You were July 23, I just

[00:11:48.45] spk_2:
Saw this date. Okay, okay, July 2013

[00:12:02.64] spk_1:
By Claire Meyerhoff came on the show on July 23 a week later, after Steve the show was changed, it was no longer the tony-martignetti show because you claire explained to me that nobody knows what the hell tony-martignetti show

[00:12:06.74] spk_2:
is right, is about is it about cooking, Is it about trolls? Like what is it about? So I thought I said to him tony you just have to have the word non profit in there somewhere. Just shove the word non profit into your, into your title,

[00:12:38.54] spk_1:
has to have it shoved in tony-martignetti and nonprofit radio And so by the second week of of the show which was now newly named so you were on July 23, 2016 you were on the first tony-martignetti non profit radio Claremore off talking about uh storytelling

[00:12:57.24] spk_2:
Amazing. So that was 10, 11, almost 11 years, 11, it is 11 years ago, it is 11, well on the 23rd it’ll be 11 years. I expect a nice gift. I want a Bugatti and a villa on lake como. Thank you. I will take nothing less.

[00:12:59.22] spk_1:
Very italian themed. Okay, well we’ll give you is a nun, we have a doll. None for you

[00:13:04.10] spk_2:
know I already have that for mary.

[00:13:06.01] spk_1:
We won’t take yours away. How about that?

[00:13:09.19] spk_2:
Okay, I’ll get another one. She’ll have a little friend. I’ll give it to Marion.

[00:13:13.24] spk_1:
But that was the very first show and you were on the very second show.

[00:13:26.64] spk_2:
I was all right. So we have another award to give out scott a little music for atmosphere. Thank you. And the second Tony award goes to the Tony award for longest distance guest. That’s the guest who phoned in from the furthest away it is. Let’s open the envelope. Matt Barnett from Sydney Australia on november 30th 2020 matt, here’s your award tony Tell us about matt

[00:13:56.14] spk_1:
matt Barnett is the papa bear. He calls himself papa bear of his company, which is Bond Euro and they do personalized videos. So he’s the ceo of bonds Euro, but his title is papa bear. And uh yeah, he zoomed with me from Sydney Australia as you said,

[00:14:05.14] spk_2:
That’s fabulous with a big time difference as well. So he had to accommodate that.

[00:14:20.34] spk_1:
Uh, we, we both, yeah, I think I was up a little early and he was up a little late. Uh, one of the other, I think I was like nine o’clock and maybe he was seven or eight in the morning the next day. Something like that. Some, something like that.

[00:14:29.64] spk_2:
Yeah, wow, that’s, that’s awesome. All right. We have, we have another Tony award and it is for the guest who came closest to having a heart attack in the studio. And that award goes to Dennis Miller, tony Tell us about Dennis

[00:15:06.34] spk_1:
Dennis Dennis ran a long way from, from, I think the nearest spot that a cab could drop him off. This was the very first studio on West 72nd Street and he was stuck in us. Uh he was stuck in traffic and he uh it wasn’t, I’m pretty sure it was not the subway, he was stuck in traffic, he told the cabbie he would just bail out and uh he hooked it a couple of blocks and

[00:15:09.22] spk_2:
uh

[00:15:13.14] spk_1:
Dennis Dennis is not spelt, so he was, he was a little red, he was a little red cheeked and heavy breathing and then you had to come up the stairs, one story.

[00:15:20.34] spk_2:
I remember

[00:15:27.44] spk_1:
one flight of stairs to add a little more exercise to his couple block run. Um so I we did the best SAm and I remember SAm the

[00:15:31.48] spk_2:
producer. Yes, I know SAm. Well,

[00:15:37.24] spk_1:
uh we did the best to calm him down and uh I did a little improv and then we brought him in and he was fine. Dennis was fine and he was brilliant.

[00:15:41.79] spk_2:
And so who is Dennis Miller? What does he do? And why was he a nonprofit radio

[00:15:45.68] spk_1:
Dennis Miller is a frequent writer about board’s approval board, very important, a strategic planning with your board retreat,

[00:15:56.04] spk_2:
yep,

[00:15:56.74] spk_1:
we were talking about, we have been talking about the board and fundraising, but

[00:16:01.94] spk_2:
it was right, Yes, that’s that’s that’s enough to give you a heart attack right there, trying to get your board to do some fundraising. Very

[00:16:11.64] spk_1:
good claire, that’s Dennis Miller,

[00:16:28.94] spk_2:
that’s Dennis Miller. Okay. And we have a we have a final in this little segment, this is the final tony award for, for this, this little segment of our show and it goes to the Tony Award, goes to the weirdest guest and the weirdest guest is Sandor Katz, tony I’ll let you explain our weirdest guests, Sand or cats and the lessons you’ve learned.

[00:17:18.34] spk_1:
Yes, you learned a lesson. I should have consulted you first or you know, maybe I did and you advised me against it and I, uh stupidly you can’t be ignored your advice. I don’t remember what sequence it was, but it was my, it was my original idea. I’m not, I’m not putting that on you. I thought, well it’s a podcast for nonprofit folks, but maybe, you know, folks and nonprofits have multidimensional lives, so maybe I can capture some of the, some of that breath in, in the non profit radio podcast. And I invited someone to come on and talk about fermentation implementation. Uh, yeah, as you said, his name was Sandor Katz, but he, he called himself Sander crowd because sauerkraut is a

[00:17:20.84] spk_2:
popular, uh, that’s true, it is,

[00:17:23.92] spk_1:
This was August 2nd of 2013,

[00:18:00.44] spk_2:
so three years in, you decided let’s let’s shake it up a little bit. Let’s have some fermenting topics now. I remember that because I think you had a wine person on one time, like you’ve done a couple of them where you thought, well let’s do like some other stuff. And I said, well tony it’s, it’s better to just stick like stay with the message. Like stay with what the show is about like on car talk. They don’t like have a nonprofit segment on car talk. They talk about cars unless it’s like something about like, you know, cars with nonprofits. Like if like if Sandor Katz had run like the, you know, the fermentation 501 C3, right? The nonprofit groups supporting um fermentation?

[00:18:05.34] spk_1:
Yes, that would have been ideal. That would have been that he had no connection to night connection to non profit He was the furthest thing I could find from nonprofits and

[00:18:13.33] spk_2:
he talked a long time and tony just we’re both in the studio and I’m like, I’m giving tony like the stink eye and I’m like, yeah, tony that’s what that’s all about. He’s like, this guy is talking about the pickles and

[00:18:50.54] spk_1:
chocolate, coffee, sauerkraut wine, all these champagne versus wine. So yeah, I learned a lesson. I learned a lot and uh claire you were spot on podcasts are about narrow and deep, you take your narrow niche and you run deep in it and you don’t try to bring in fermentation or uh, or uh wine enthusiasm or anything else. So at

[00:19:08.04] spk_2:
least it was like a really like weird one that we can still talk about years later. It’s, it’s not like the tipping point with something about like a guy who does custom framing or something like that wouldn’t be that funny, but like this guy was all about the fermenting and now we can we can joke about that. But but yes, he got the Tony awards, so we’ll have to send that to him and maybe he will send us a lifetime supply of sauerkraut.

[00:19:14.64] spk_1:
All

[00:19:19.24] spk_2:
right, we’re moving on.

[00:19:37.84] spk_1:
We have someone who just joined us. We will get to your song into the 2nd Scott in a few minutes. Let’s bring in, let’s bring in as soon as he piers. This is Stefan, Stefan. Szabo. Best to Stefan welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:19:44.14] spk_3:
Hey, nice to meet you. Happy to be here.

[00:19:47.94] spk_1:
Thank you. Did I say your name right? I wanna make sure is it sure best to?

[00:19:51.84] spk_3:
Oh perfect, very nice.

[00:19:53.98] spk_1:
It’s

[00:19:54.91] spk_2:
just the way it looks. It’s a beautiful name, Stefan Sebesta.

[00:19:58.84] spk_3:
Thanks

[00:20:00.05] spk_1:
Stephanie is Ceo of one of our sponsors, our newest sponsor, Send In Blue, which is a digital marketing platform, Stefan thanks so much for joining us.

[00:20:11.04] spk_3:
Thanks and congrats on your 550th show your 11 year anniversary.

[00:20:26.44] spk_1:
Thank you. Thank you very much. I’m glad you could be with us. Thank you. Um so tell us a little about sending Blue. Want to give you a couple of minutes to uh talk about this digital marketing platform and how sending Blue helps nonprofits.

[00:21:34.64] spk_3:
Sure, happy to do so, so sad. And blue, you know, as we were founded in in 2012, we really have this vision of helping small and medium businesses and many nonprofits are fall into this category to help these kind of business is to be on equal footing with the big players, the amazons of this world and to empower them and enable them to do similar marketing, online marketing activities. So we started with email marketing and then added more and more channels over time. And our really, our our vision is to provide a very easy to use, very affordable tool to small and medium businesses to grow there, to grow their revenue to for nonprofits, you know, um fundraising is very important. So we give a lot of tools that you can use apart from email marketing, you can have a landing page generator facebook as the chat chat about that you can put on your website, Syria. Um, and so we’ve added more and more functionality and it’s, you know, that’s really what what’s in blue stands for.

[00:21:43.44] spk_1:
So like full spectrum enterprise level digital marketing,

[00:21:44.79] spk_3:
but enterprise

[00:21:46.35] spk_1:
enterprise, but enterprise, like enterprise quality

[00:22:12.54] spk_3:
for non profits At at at a price that’s really affordable for for for small businesses. And that’s easy to use where you don’t need to have maybe an 80 team or a dedicated marketing manager. You can, everything is very visual. You can use our drag and drop editor, create planning pages or emails and it’s it’s really easy to to set up campaigns and become successful. And like I said, be on equal footing with these bigger players that have much higher budgets, of course.

[00:22:34.44] spk_1:
Cool. Right. So you get that quality without the enterprise level pricing, That’s exactly right, awesome. So distinguish between some sending blue and some of the bigger names that may or may not be, you know, appropriate, like, you know, constant contact and mail chimp what we’re sending blue, what is sending blue do that? These guys don’t

[00:23:50.64] spk_3:
phenomena. So one thing I mentioned is really, it’s a very comprehensive tool, right? We offer all these different channels that you can combine and make your online marketing extremely powerful With that. Apart from that we, You know, we offer very affordable product. We have very good customer service basically 24/7 and six different languages. So that’s something that nobody, nobody else offers in our industry either. And overall, you know, it’s a lot of features and maybe there are different um preferences for for each customer. But We really targeted white audience. We have over 300,000 paying customers worldwide. Originally the European company and you know, for for one person may be the functionality is more important for the other one that’s a customer service for another one. Maybe it might be the data privacy regulations that we have to follow european, G D P R C C A and so on. So we’re really, really focused on that as well. Um and for for others who might just be, you know, the ease of, of, of using the product. So um it’s different for for each customer basically.

[00:24:26.94] spk_1:
Cool. Alright. Easy to use price for nonprofits. Um and non profit radio listeners get a free month. Yes. And in blue uh free straight out exactly. You go to the listener landing page at send in blue aptly named. That’s easy to remember. Yeah, Stefan. Thanks so much. Real pleasure. And and and thank you. Thank you. And thanks to the team. It’s sending blue for your, your sponsorship of nonprofit radio Thank you so much.

[00:24:35.94] spk_3:
No problem. Thanks.

[00:24:40.11] spk_1:
Thanks so

[00:24:40.78] spk_3:
much.

[00:24:45.04] spk_1:
That’s fine. You got a song for us?

[00:24:48.54] spk_4:
I do. It’s about fermentation

[00:24:50.94] spk_2:
awesome.

[00:24:54.34] spk_4:
That may or may not be true.

[00:24:56.94] spk_1:
All right, you got for

[00:26:08.94] spk_4:
us. I’m gonna play this song off the new record that we’re gonna be doing uh starting tomorrow. Um uh the song is called on my way and it’s about a trip that I took to New Orleans and um I everywhere I went although I you could still kind of see um like remnants of what happened during hurricane Katrina if you look closely enough. And and I had I had been there initially a couple of years after Katrina and hadn’t gone back since uh this this trip was about two years ago and and I was just on one hand I was just taking it in because I love New Orleans, I love just hanging out there. Obviously it’s a great music city. Um But you you kind of scratch under the service and you can see you know some of the scars of what happened. And I thought that was just a really interesting um dichotomy there. So that’s that’s a little bit of what informed this song. So this is this is called on my way. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm.

[00:29:28.44] spk_0:
Yeah. I’m on my way. I could still find my way out of the ordinary back into the frame. But it takes some of that comfort and it cast it aside, slip out of the jacket. It’s the ball of the way outside. The wind is at my back to push me through the sorrow way through the storm And the swell as for the destination. It’s too early to tell there in a while in the solace. Ain’t no river a trust ain’t no poetry to this life baby. We only do what we must and I cannot step the time. I can only stand in wonder and I grab a hold of the ball Bowlby older I breathe different and I got a swagger in my stride. I’m walking through the war. There’s the mighty river at my side but new Orleans bears the scars now and it’s shaping in its storm, which is the threat of rain, reminds her of the memories of the storm. Yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah. Take all that I am. Take all that I was Yeah. Try to pull myself together the right kind of bus. Take all of my love, take all of my sins. Ain’t no use trying to polish up the mess that I’ve been. But I will be better. I will be better better than before. Uh huh. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Who scott stone?

[00:29:32.44] spk_1:
Thanks scott stein. Wonderful,

[00:29:33.58] spk_2:
thank you, lovely, thank

[00:29:35.34] spk_1:
you. Excellent. And that’s going to be on the new album. Do you know the name of the new album

[00:29:39.37] spk_4:
scott? I don’t just yet, I’ve got some ideas I’m kicking around but it’s uh we’re pretty early in the process right now.

[00:29:50.74] spk_1:
You’re starting recording tomorrow. Indeed, I didn’t know creative process runs.

[00:30:12.04] spk_4:
It depends sometimes, like I’ve got an idea, you know, coming out of the gate. Uh, sometimes I have one, I don’t want to share it right away. Sometimes one record the woman with cheap red wine. I think I came up with the title of that record jukebox. Uh, we were mastering the record, we were all done and I still didn’t have a title. And uh, so it happens when it happens.

[00:30:16.94] spk_1:
Okay, okay, mastering. That’s one of those insider terms. I love

[00:30:19.13] spk_4:
that. That’s the last, it’s the last step of the last thing you do and then it’s done. You

[00:30:30.34] spk_1:
know the lingo, you’re an insider musical insider. I know. All right, Claire.

[00:30:32.54] spk_2:
I think we have more Tony awards to give out. So do we.

[00:30:37.44] spk_0:
I think we do.

[00:31:11.74] spk_2:
I would like to present the Tony Award for 2021 to most newsworthy guests on the Tony-Martignetti nonprofit radio show and the Tony award for most news where the guest goes to Barbara Newhouse, the ceo of A. L. S. The A. L. S Association and the ice bucket challenge competition that was so well known and successful back in the day. And tony nabbed that high profile guest. Yes, yes,

[00:31:51.84] spk_1:
Indeed. That was that was October of 2014, 3, 2014. May recall, uh, if you were working around nonprofits then the, the ice bucket challenge. It was the summer of 2014 and it pretty much wrapped up by labor day of 2014. So early October I got Barbara Newhouse on the show and actually recorded that in the Chronicle of philanthropy office in Washington, D. C. That was a collaboration between non profit radio and the Chronicle of philanthropy. They promoted it and I did too. And I did the interview with Barbara Newhouse.

[00:32:12.74] spk_2:
Really, that’s wonderful. And now I have another award to give out and it’s for Tony’s favorite guests. So the Tony award for favorite guest goes to and it’s a tie Tony’s favorite guests receiving the Tony award are Amy sample Ward and jean to the hockey. I can never say his name. Right. I’m a terrible

[00:32:19.64] spk_0:
host. Yeah, I couldn’t pick just one of

[00:32:20.79] spk_1:
you. Welcome. Welcome. Hey, you are my favorite. Together. You are my favorite. Get

[00:32:26.03] spk_2:
your tony award

[00:32:28.04] spk_0:
or

[00:32:30.31] spk_2:
are you going to Patrol?

[00:32:32.14] spk_5:
I am very happy to share with jean.

[00:32:35.54] spk_7:
Me too, Amy, thank you for the Auto

[00:32:49.44] spk_1:
tony include Absolutely, absolutely. Together. My favorite guest, Uh, Jean, Jean started on nonprofit radio on, on show number seven show number. So

[00:32:57.14] spk_2:
right, that’s right. So he also wins the award for longest running guest jean. He gets to awards 20

[00:32:58.81] spk_7:
10 I think

[00:33:10.94] spk_1:
It was, it was 27 absolutely. It was, it was August 27 of 2010. Exactly right. That was the 7th show we had just started the month before. And Amy joined non profit radio on the 100th show.

[00:33:18.14] spk_5:
Yes, because I remember thinking like there’s all this stuff going on. What what is this show? You know,

[00:33:30.64] spk_1:
I didn’t know I wasn’t sure myself. So that would have been the 100th show would have been July of 2012 and with us ever since. So welcome. Welcome to the anniversary. Welcome

[00:33:36.92] spk_7:
congrats.

[00:34:10.74] spk_1:
Thank you. Thanks very much and you get you’re both gonna stay with us. Right, both of you are gonna stay for the duration. All right. All right. Um Amy, what’s what’s up at and 10 I should have said Amy, sample ward of course are technology and social media contributor naturally, you all know, you all know Amy and jeanne aimee Ceo of N 10 at 10 10 dot org. And AMY is at AMy R S Ward. What’s up in the MERS Ward or the N 10 World? You what’s up there?

[00:34:55.54] spk_5:
We Well, lots of good things. I mean, you know, we’re now in our Fy 22 Every, every year we get to like put stuff behind us, no more of the last 12 months, you know? Um I mean right now we’re getting ready to launch 22 NTC, you know, sessions, emissions folks have been tons of folks already volunteered to be on the committee’s. So doing all of that planning now and getting ready. I think that will be launched or announced to the community in like two weeks. So stand by watch that inbox. Get ready to pencil things into your calendar.

[00:34:57.84] spk_1:
Um Okay. 22 T. C. The nonprofit technology conference. Yeah. Where is that where is that going to be?

[00:35:06.54] spk_5:
I think that’s part of

[00:35:07.62] spk_1:
the is that part of the reveal reveal?

[00:35:11.31] spk_2:
Yes.

[00:35:12.25] spk_5:
Yes. Can

[00:35:13.54] spk_2:
you give us a hint? I

[00:35:22.54] spk_5:
can say all of you are invited and all of you can definitely make it.

[00:35:23.74] spk_0:
Okay.

[00:35:37.34] spk_1:
Okay Jean. Okay we’re waiting up so a couple of weeks we’re gonna hear about 20-80. Okay Jeanne, what’s going out? Gene of course our legal contributor uh Principal of

[00:35:39.05] spk_5:
Jean jean will appreciate the way that I nimbly answered your question,

[00:35:44.94] spk_7:
definitely looking at a legal second career

[00:35:47.88] spk_5:
Amy

[00:36:09.43] spk_1:
Jeanne, our legal contributor. He’s a principal attorney at neo the nonprofit and exempt organization law group in san Francisco Neo law group dot com. He edits the wildly popular nonprofit law blog, which everyone should be subscribing to. It’s Simple Gene. It breaks things down. That’s why he’s our legal contributor. No, no.

[00:36:14.58] spk_5:
We email the intent board with links to jeans blog. Anytime they ask us a question, we don’t need to answer this. Gene already answered this. Here’s the answer. Go read this blog post jean. Can I ask you a question and take over the show.

[00:36:27.13] spk_1:
Absolutely.

[00:37:43.53] spk_5:
So we, because Anton puts on a big conference, um, we are connected to lots of other event planners and other organizations, you know, that have the big enough events where you’re like conventions and our hotel contracts, all these different pieces, you know, and really until a month or so ago, if you had contracts, it was, it was scary and stressful, but you were going to get out of them because you were legally not allowed to have events, you know? But now Covid’s over or something and like no more restrictions. So organizations that had contracts, you know, maybe for this summer and thought, okay, well we don’t have to worry. Like obviously we can’t have events like that can be over. Will plan something else are now stuck in this like, oh, I guess we are going to be beholden to these legal contracts that have massive fines because you know, the governor of whatever state is no longer barred events of, of a certain size or something, you know, Are you seeing, are you seeing folks trying to navigate that or did they somehow successfully negotiate out and we haven’t heard from them or what are you seeing in that world?

[00:38:40.02] spk_7:
So in anticipation of Tony’s question to me about what was going on, that’s a lot of what’s going on right now. Organizations trying to figure out post covid kind of post covid or wherever we happen to be now, how do we proceed? And yeah, having provision in the contract not to sell lawyers services, but right now is a time before you enter into a big contract for an event. You want to make sure you’ve got language in there that allocates risk and protects you. So to the extent you can and most contracts are not like rental card contracts where you have to agree to whatever they put in, most of them can be negotiated, that’s something to think of. And so tony great summer a lot of work. A lot of changes going on here. I hope everything’s been going well with you two.

[00:38:45.22] spk_1:
Oh absolutely. Um and Amy is going to get a bill from you for a legal consultation and I get a 30% cut of that because it’s cutting into non profit radio I like I like how she asked like how Amy asked jean, can I ask you a question and take over the show? She didn’t ask jean, ask the host,

[00:39:01.32] spk_2:
can I ask a question? Let’s keep

[00:39:27.02] spk_1:
advice for intend for free. Can I do that? I shouldn’t ask. All right. Uh no, we’re glad to help. We’re here to help nonprofits. We’re here to help nonprofits of course. And I want to introduce both of you to Scott. Stein, who you’ve not met. Scott is the composer of cheap red wine, which is our theme song that you hear at the intro and outro of every single, every single day.

[00:39:27.54] spk_5:
Didn’t we meet last july in this same

[00:39:30.32] spk_0:
setup

[00:39:36.52] spk_4:
I was gonna say Yeah, I think we did meet over zoom about a year ago.

[00:39:37.66] spk_1:
Okay, it would have been a year ago. Alright, well, back

[00:39:43.50] spk_7:
and Scott’s composition is incredible. So, the theme song,

[00:39:49.82] spk_1:
we all love cheap red wine. Absolutely. We’re going to hear it. We’re gonna hear it later on Scott. You’ve got another song for us right now though. Yeah,

[00:41:00.41] spk_4:
yeah, absolutely. I’ll do it off the forthcoming new record. Actually. I I think I did this one on your show, probably the lesson. We did it in person. I’m gonna do it again because we’re about to go record it. Um But I wrote it the morning of the show. I’d had this chorus kicking around in my head for several months. And remember I that morning I had gone, I dropped my my son off at daycare, who’s now too. So we probably about six months old at that point. And um after I got home, I had about maybe, 2030 minutes before I had to leave to come meet with you and I was like, go I just had my second cup of coffee. It kicked in. One of my favorite songwriters, dan Wilson is fond of saying that human songwriters are machines, you input espresso and songs come out. So, and that’s kind of what happened. So I’m paraphrasing, he said it more eloquently than I did. Alright. But anyway, so this is uh, so the two that was debuted on your show a couple years ago, I’m gonna rip res it here. I remember,

[00:41:12.75] spk_1:
I remember you telling that story,

[00:41:25.01] spk_4:
please. Yeah, it was that morning and I just like there there it was, oh, that’s what that song is supposed to be. So here it is. Uh, this is called, It’s a Good Life. Oh, I had to remember what key it was in. All right. Here we go.

[00:45:37.39] spk_0:
Uh huh. Yeah, I got some inside information. Someone slipped me a copy of the master plan. My sources are were reliable with the rental language. I don’t understand. You know, I’ve always been a cynic since the day. I can remember ways skipping past silver lightings. Always looking for the snow in september. But baby baby baby is a good high Oh baby baby. It’s a good hi. No matter who you are, you can’t see the nearest store. Baby baby. It’s a good I some days you’re offer busy. Some days you can’t get a damn thing. You’ve done. Some days you get the car keys. Some days it’s the keys. The thing that giants that you love lying. Very good reasons. But baby baby baby. It’s a good uh Oh, it’s a good lot. No matter how you sing the song, there’s always someone singing along baby baby, it’s good, allow once was up getting her what? Baby, baby, baby, it’s a good life. Oh baby baby, it’s a good I don’t, you stick to what you know, let me fly watching. Oh baby baby, it’s a good life. Oh baby baby, it’s a good oh baby baby, it’s a good life. Yeah.

[00:45:54.59] spk_1:
Who scott stein thanks, I love that. Of course. I love the song debuted on nonprofit radio a couple of years ago. World world premiere was

[00:45:56.40] spk_4:
non profit here. It was an hour long, it was an hour old, that newborn.

[00:46:21.28] spk_1:
Thank you. Beautiful scott. Thank you scott stein scott stein music dot com. We had a couple of folks, uh, we had a couple of folks join us, another sponsor of nonprofit radio from turn to communications. Peter Pan a pento and scott. Westcott, both partners. That turn to Peter scott Welcome.

[00:46:24.68] spk_6:
Great to be here. And we, we came together even though we worked six hours apart. This was such a big occasion for us. I drove up to Erie pennsylvania to be here. So,

[00:46:34.78] spk_1:
uh, well and Scott living in here. He knows what a sacrifice that was.

[00:46:38.97] spk_8:
Yeah, it’s serious, but it’s not in the winner. So I mean, it’s a little bit, Yeah.

[00:46:57.68] spk_1:
Okay, Welcome. Welcome to the, to the anniversary show. Peter Scott for having us and, and thank you for your sponsorship as well. Grateful, grateful for that. Thank you. Turn to communications Media pr For, for nonprofits. Tell us tell us a little more detail than I’m able to go into in my 32nd sponsored messages.

[00:47:36.48] spk_6:
Sure. So, um, Scott and I started turn to communications about four years ago and we’ve been working, um, for quite a while building on our background as journalists and folks who’ve worked in and around the sector for a number of years, um, to help nonprofits um, tell their stories more effectively in the media and also be much, um, much clearer and more direct with reaching their target audiences through their content. So we work with quite a few community foundations, a number of national and local nonprofits and have really enjoyed, uh, helping nonprofits raise awareness about their work, um, dr action and and get results on some of their advocacy campaigns. And in some cases, raise some more money to

[00:48:12.77] spk_1:
scott. I’m often talking about the relationships that you can help folks build with media outlets. And as I’m doing the sponsor messages. Um, so, you know, for the weekly shows, talk about a little about the value of those relationships, how you build those relationships with media when when you’re not looking to be quoted or, or be a source.

[00:49:00.87] spk_8:
Yeah, so I think it’s, you know, there’s some legwork there and it’s a matter of, you know, first of all understanding what the journalists are looking for, what they need, and then voting that relationship over time, uh, being as useful as possible to them, you know, because they’re obviously swamped these days. I mean, they get hundreds of emails a day, you know, everyone pitching a story. So we really do focus on that relationship, you know, getting, you know, journalists what they’re working on what their beat is. Um, so, hey, we can be top of mind for them, you know, when they are doing a story and be just being able to give them information and get them sources in in the fastest way possible. So, uh, that ended up being a beneficial

[00:49:23.27] spk_6:
relationship for everybody, really does. And I think, you know, so much of our approach to media relations is to almost treat, um, not just our clients as clients, but the journalists themselves as clients. And in some cases finding ways to to be support to them, um, when it doesn’t necessarily benefit the organizations we work with, but building trust with them, making sure if if we can’t get them an answer or get them the people they need through our network, um, reaching out and connecting them with people who we might not be working with so that we can, you know, provide them with value and build

[00:49:51.87] spk_1:
trust. And isn’t that just basic, that’s just basic relationship building in any in any in any network or bunch of friends, you know, you get to know each other and you help each other when when someone needs help you. And there’s and there’s no, you know, there’s no benefit for you. You don’t even think about

[00:49:56.12] spk_8:
that journalists or human beings.

[00:49:59.40] spk_1:
I’ve heard, I’ve heard rumors to that effect. Yes.

[00:50:07.86] spk_2:
Well as a journalist, as a, as a, as a working longtime journalist, we are human. Absolutely. But then we leave and work for nonprofits and uh,

[00:50:14.08] spk_1:
you know,

[00:50:14.32] spk_8:
I think you’re right Tony, I mean, basically the same same fundamentals

[00:50:40.66] spk_1:
and you both are journalists. So you’ve gotten, you’ve been on the receiving end of thousands of pitches, tens of thousands through the years. Peter used to be at the Chronicle of philanthropy. So you have a special niche within nonprofits. Um, so the two of you together, you know, it’s a, it’s an ideal relationship. And uh, and I’m, I’m pleased to say tell folks that, that the plane giving accelerator that I have is a, is a, is a client of turn two.

[00:51:06.96] spk_6:
That’s right. And uh, yeah, so tony Uh, you know, we, we often tell the story on your anniversary shows about how, um, you came into the Chronicle office back when I was working there with the idea for tony-martignetti non profit radio And we actually did a kind of a parallel podcast through the Chronicle for a number of years to so tony was a podcasting pioneer, which

[00:51:52.86] spk_1:
thank you maybe maybe just an early adopter, an early adopter, maybe you’re being degenerate, but thank you, thank you. Yeah. And you can find that old collaboration that I did with the, uh, with, with the Chronicle of philanthropy. It’s called fundraising fundamentals. It ran about four or 5 years, Much shorter, like 12, 10, 12, 15 minutes was the longest episode we ever did. And but it’s still out, it’s still on apple podcasts and I don’t know about other sites, but folks mentioned it to me occasionally fundraising fundamentals and that was peter and I collaborated on that, but that created that so long running relationship. Thanks thanks for and again, thanks for your sponsorship. Turn to thank you

[00:51:58.36] spk_6:
so thrilled to thrilled to have the partnership and you have such a great audience in such great guess. We’re really thrilled to be associated with it.

[00:52:21.55] spk_1:
Thanks. Thanks a lot. Thanks to both of you. Oh my pleasure. Um you’re welcome to hang out if you like guys, we’re uh we’re gonna give out some more Tony awards. Claire has some more Tony awards and I should have said uh you all are stuck with a lackluster host, you know that you know that by now I should have said that uh these are the authentic tony awards, those imposter awards on broadway, their name for their name for someone named Antoinette Perry, she’s not, her name isn’t even tony it’s T. O. And I Internet is T. O. And I. But they change it to T. O. N. Y. Awards. I don’t know why they made it a masculine when it was named for a woman. Why did they do that? It’s all about the imposters, imposters

[00:52:50.74] spk_2:
imposters. So they give these awards for what were you know, writing a whole broadway show and performing it on a stage in front of thousands of people and creating joy for millions. Got really come on that all about

[00:53:06.75] spk_1:
the real awards are right. Really? What’s

[00:53:08.11] spk_4:
got its cake? It’s not it’s no work at all

[00:53:11.12] spk_1:
knew scott would take offense at that. Um there’s yeah, no, this is the real these are the real Tony awards right here, Claire you have you have a couple of

[00:53:20.57] spk_2:
couple. We have, we have a couple more awards. Not too many, but the next Tony award. And let me get my

[00:53:28.85] spk_0:
or award the nun the

[00:53:30.29] spk_2:
Tony award for most famous guest on tony-martignetti non profit radio goes to dan Pallotta. tony Tell us about dan Pallotta.

[00:54:10.84] spk_1:
That was April 3, 2015 uh he had a famous or infamous depending on your perspective. Ted Talk called the way something like the way we think about charities or the way we look at charities is all wrong and it was provocative and he got a lot of fame for that he had or infamy again uh when you look at it. Um so millions of views widely, widely um quoted and interviewed Peter you may know did you? I’m sure the Chronicle certainly covered dan Pallotta and his ted talk.

[00:54:19.44] spk_6:
Yes, yes, it got a lot of attention around that time. I was still at the Chronicle back then and you know, I interviewed dan a few times and and he wrote quite a bit of he wrote some provocative op ed pieces back in the day to certainly a big name in the field, although not as much so now. I don’t think

[00:54:47.94] spk_5:
he even was a keynote at the end. You see Peter, do you remember what year that was? It was before I was Ceo, So it so it was not

[00:54:48.82] spk_2:
2013.

[00:54:53.34] spk_5:
It had to have been before 20 12 2011.

[00:54:55.64] spk_6:
It was really yes. Yes. But

[00:55:01.24] spk_5:
I mean his keynote was the same, you know,

[00:55:02.84] spk_0:
topic. Yes, yes.

[00:55:05.74] spk_7:
We didn’t show Tony responding to one of Dan’s offense or his TED Talk in 2013 as well. So we talked about it as

[00:55:13.69] spk_1:
well. That’s right. We did a little postmortem about the issues that he raised. Exactly jean. Thank you.

[00:55:27.54] spk_2:
Interesting. And we have another Tony award that goes to the and I’m going to lower my voice. Softest spoken, famous guest. So the softest spoken famous guest award, Tony award goes to not dan Pallotta, it goes to Craig Newmark, the founder of craigslist, tony Tell us more,

[00:56:07.93] spk_1:
Craig. Newmark is terrific. You know, he founded Craig’s, you have to say Craig Newmark, the founder of Craigslist because nobody knows it because he’s so modest, you know, uh he didn’t turn craigslist into a billion dollar platform uh like so many tech entrepreneurs do. He resisted that. And so, you know, he we don’t know his name the way we know other tech entrepreneurs who can remain unnamed because we all know who they are, Right? So you have to say

[00:56:08.96] spk_5:
being sued by the federal government or what they’ve done with their social media platforms.

[00:56:43.43] spk_1:
Yes. Being sued by the former guy, the former president as well. So Craig Newmark is the founder of craigslist. He resisted the temptation to turn it into a billion dollar platform. He kept it free or very, very low cost and and craigslist exploded for that. And that just exemplifies his character is so you know, he’s modest, he’s soft spoken. Uh and so that’s why he’s got to be non profit radios, most softest spoken famous guests.

[00:56:54.63] spk_2:
And we have one final Tony Award. It’s a very important one. Yeah. And the Tony award for best original score. The Tony award goes to scott stein for a cheap red wine.

[00:57:01.48] spk_0:
Wait till I

[00:57:05.88] spk_4:
have to play underscoring for that

[00:57:07.90] spk_2:
for your own award. Yes, you got to do it all. You’re the only music I hear

[00:57:12.55] spk_4:
stuck. I’m stuck in the orchestra pit, even when I’m getting

[00:57:20.13] spk_2:
congratulations scott. Absolutely. Now you can say now you can say Tony award winning composer scott. Stein

[00:57:26.74] spk_0:
really

[00:57:28.64] spk_2:
with a

[00:57:29.03] spk_5:
little after a big

[00:57:31.25] spk_2:
let’s ask Gina, big asterisk

[00:57:34.67] spk_1:
and, and, and, and note, put it at the end. Not, not the footnote, it’s easier to meet, put it at the end.

[00:57:41.33] spk_4:
Uh, tony-martignetti I’m a big baseball fan. So any award that comes with an asterisk, you know, like,

[00:57:46.83] spk_1:
all

[00:57:47.91] spk_4:
right. Like all the batting titles from like

[00:57:49.84] spk_2:
Pete Rose or

[00:57:51.19] spk_4:
barry bonds is anyway, but thank you.

[00:58:05.72] spk_1:
Absolutely. I love cheap red wine. It’s been our theme song listeners have heard it at the beginning and the end of every single show for many years, many years since we got brought together by a lawyer friend, I mentioned,

[00:58:19.82] spk_4:
uh, josh, Good name of mine. Exactly, joseph, but his name is, joseph goes by josh. But so thank you josh. If you’re I hope you’re out there listening to this right now, so cool.

[00:58:51.32] spk_1:
Thank you josh. Indeed. And I want to thank everybody it’s time for. Thanks Claire Meyerhoff, thank you for co hosting. Thank you for being non profit radios creative producer. You’ll find Claire on linkedin and the company is the planned giving agency PG agency dot com scott Stein. Love it scott. Thank you. Thank you so much. Every anniversary show, I always look forward to it. Thank you very much. You’ll find scott at scott stein music dot com and a new album coming shortly. The recording starts tomorrow, so we don’t really

[00:59:00.52] spk_4:
know. But fall, fall, maybe winter. We’ll see. We’ll see how long this takes

[00:59:43.12] spk_1:
scott stein music dot com. We’ll give you the latest jean takagi principle of neo law group uh the nonprofit and exempt organizations Law group. Neo law group dot com edits that nonprofit law blog at nonprofit law blog dot com. So many aptly named to see everybody took my aptly named host, uh not private law blog dot com. You need to be following that. That’s uh, you know, if you’re not, it’s your life, I can’t help you. Uh you need to. And he’s at G Attack AMy sample award With us since the 100th show ceo of intent and our technology and social media contributor and 10 dot org. And at AMY R. S Ward. I know AMY has to go to a meeting, so thank you, Amy. Thanks for being with us.

[00:59:52.69] spk_5:
Yeah, Thanks everybody. Congratulations, tony

[00:59:56.17] spk_1:
Thank you, Amy. Thanks

[00:59:57.40] spk_5:
congratulations. All the tony winners.

[01:00:05.41] spk_1:
All the tony All the winners. All your fellow award winners. Yes, go tell your staff you won an award. You want to tell

[01:00:07.59] spk_2:
everyone

[01:00:12.71] spk_1:
tony All right. And peter pan Pento scott. Westcott, thank you again for your sponsorship. Uh turn to communications that turn hyphen two dot C. O. And so thank you gentlemen,

[01:00:25.81] spk_6:
thanks so much for giving us a little time. This is

[01:00:27.84] spk_8:
great. We will strive for a Tony award in the future.

[01:00:41.01] spk_1:
Stay. You can the longest running sponsor. If you if you hang in there scott stein, you know you gotta take us out with cheap red wine. All right. Mhm.

[01:05:09.29] spk_0:
Uh huh. Mm Uh huh. I think I just want you you see your romantic investment to build what I’m looking for answers up on a tv screen. We can’t agree on nothing. We had till the ropes from my down. Yeah, we’re disappointed each other not to be baby and just love that we found you know, you used to find me charming. Gonna care figure out how you see you thought I was handsome. But it doesn’t matter now. So keep falling from my punch lines. As long as your time will allow. God, I reckon promises if I let you read a wine and how wear diamonds and they’re tired of the clothing that way. Yeah. Love to put over for the good stuff and you’re too easily to stretch the tooth care. Well, I ain’t got too many options so I’m gonna do the best that I can. Well maybe you’ll have some competition a day when I’m a wealthy man. You know, you used to ferment your I’m gonna care figure out how you see if you thought it was him. But it doesn’t matter now. So keep falling more. But as long as your time will allow because I’ve got her any promises about ideology, their wine and thou oh yeah, maybe let’s raise our glasses. Take a dream to better days. The other people can kiss our asses, but in life he said, and I ain’t get across the heavens. The woman flashed victory sides because we’re perfect for each other as long as well. Nobody else in mind. Oh yeah. You know, you used to care, figure out how can you say? Never mind. Don’t matter now. So keep falling from a problem in my life, jeanne red or whatever. Mm Next week on nonprofit radio I’m just gonna have to trust me. I was focused on the fire and so I don’t know what’s coming up, but I promise you it will not be the fermentation. She can you missed any part of this week’s show I’ve been finding at tony-martignetti dot com responded by turn to communication. You are currently on profits. Your story is their mission terran hyphen two dot c o. And by sending blue and only all in one digital marketing

[01:05:11.59] spk_2:
pact. Powering

[01:05:12.73] spk_1:
nonprofits to grow.

[01:05:44.79] spk_0:
tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant going through a creative producer is the wonderful Claire Meyerhoff show. Social media is by students Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy And this music is by Scott Steiner. Thank you for that after making money you with me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95 go out and be bobby.