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Nonprofit Radio for January 17, 2020: Personalized Philanthropy

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My Guest:

Steven Meyers: Personalized Philanthropy
It’s his 3 killer apps for fundraising that make Steven Meyers an innovator, and he raised a lot of money using them with donors. He was first on the show several years ago, but his groundbreaking ideas remain largely outside the mainstream, for no good reason. (Originally aired 6/17/16)

 

 

 

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[00:00:13.94] spk_1:
Hello and welcome

[00:01:22.90] spk_2:
to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. The Innovators. Siri’s continues this week, as last week was, our first continues this week. Now, every show is not gonna be an innovator. Show like next week will not be an innovator, but the innovators air peppered in on and the others are brilliant guests that have very smart ideas to share. Just not quite innovators. Okay, I’m glad you’re with me. You’d get slapped with a diagnosis of metastasize, a phobia if you missed our second show in the Innovators. Siri’s personalized philanthropy and live innovators are coming. I promise. It’s his three killer APS for fundraising that make Steve Myers an innovator, and he raised a lot of money using them with donors. He was first on the show several years ago, but his groundbreaking ideas remained largely outside the mainstream for no good reason that originally aired June 17th 2016 on tony Stake to planned giving for 2020 were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cook, a Mountain software Denali fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits. Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Here is personalized Philanthropy

[00:01:49.24] spk_3:
I’m very pleased that Steve Myers is here in the studio for the hour. He is vice president of the Center for Personalized Philanthropy at the American Committee for the Weizmann Institute of Science and author of the book Personalized Philanthropy. Crash. The Fundraising Matrix. He’s a frequent and popular speaker, and he’s at Steven Myers. 863 S T e v E N N e Y E R s Welcome, Stephen Meyers. Welcome to the studio.

[00:02:17.49] spk_4:
I love tony.

[00:02:23.58] spk_3:
Glad to have you in person. I love it here. Glad you’re here. Um, let’s start with the basics with the title. What is this Matrix That you want people to crash?

[00:02:48.34] spk_4:
Yes, the book is called Crash The Fundraising Matrix. Because, um, it reflects what my experience was when I I I was in the process of writing the book when I realized all along that I’d been living in these two cultures that were completely unaware of each other and the Matrix. The movie The Matrix is the perfect metaphor for describing these two cultures. If you remember in the movie

[00:02:57.42] spk_3:
you have to describe, I didn’t see the movie

[00:03:07.71] spk_4:
in the movie. People were taken over by cybernetic implants, robots, machines that rebelled against humanity. And they existed only in, ah, like in a computer matrix. And everybody in the Matrix was really unaware of it. They just thought that everything was normal. They were living in their normal lives, and they didn’t realize that they were kind of being held prisoners, that they were enslaved in a sense. And that’s what the movie is about. When this one person that called Neo the one wakes up to the fact that he’s living in this synthetic artificial environment.

[00:03:35.22] spk_3:
You are You are our neo

[00:03:55.21] spk_4:
I am, and I’m standing in for all the fundraisers who are trying to wake up who feel the same sense of something’s just not right in my world is the fundraiser, and that was the experience that I had. Um, and I wanted to write the book to share that with people so they could wake up, help them to wake up and kind of escape the confines of the silos and the channels that they’ve been stuck in for so many years. Okay, sometimes without even realizing it.

[00:04:16.26] spk_3:
Okay. Uh, so you’re neo nickname Neo? Okay, Steve Neo Myers. Um, all right. Rob was deconstructing The titles are working away backwards. Now, what is the this model Personalized philanthropy

[00:05:26.24] spk_4:
Personalized philanthropy is is the antidote the opposite of what goes on in the Matrix? If you think about fundraising and philanthropy when it translates into the way that we work, it’s really like there’s two cultures. There’s an institutional focused culture which is focused almost entirely on trying to make campaign goals and reach objectives within the annual department or the major gift department. And the plan giving department. And even the small organizations tend to mimic these thes Silas and channels. My first experience was in really working and maybe a two man organization to people, and one of us was assigned this one channel and the other one of us was assigned to the other channel. And how ridiculous is that? It’s a counter intuitive. So the institutional focus is set off against this personalized focus, where instead of trying to service the campaign. You’re trying to serve the interests of donors. You meet the donor where they are instead of where the institution is. So you’re really talking about a whole new definition of what philanthropy is and what fundraising is. Four.

[00:05:55.34] spk_3:
We’ve been talking about donor centered fundraising for a dozen years or so Roughly, maybe, maybe more. Sure. I mean, I’ve been fundraising for 19 years. I don’t think we started out that long ago. But donor centric fundraising donor centered has been around for I’d say at least a dozen years or so. Why is how are you neo gonna gonna make this different and actually get us to where donor center is supposed to have been a CZ long as 12 or 15 years ago.

[00:07:20.44] spk_4:
We’ve been talking about donor centered this and donor center that for a really long time, but we really haven’t had much to do about it. Um, when some people talk about donor centered fundraising, they’re talking about recognizing the donor or maybe finding a vehicle that they’re talking about selling a vehicle that they need to sell in order to make to bring that donor in so really donor centered fundraising and that’s really a copyrighted. It’s a trademarked. Yeah, Um, and it it really could have to do with how you thank them. How you write to them, how you called, cultivate them. But it doesn’t really have anything to do with what fundraising and philanthropy is about which, under my definition, the deafness that I’ve been working with is trying to mesh the compelling needs of interests off a donor with the compelling needs of the organization. So that changes. If you start with that definition where the donor’s needs matter, that’s the focus is on them. I really refer to this is donor focus giving rather than donor centered giving because the shift means that you’re focused on trying to understand the compelling interests in the passions of the donor and how they would connect to your organization. All right, that’s much different than the institutional focus

[00:07:33.14] spk_3:
on our hope. Personalized philanthropy is gonna is not gonna take this long to be really be realized, as as donor the donor centered trademark name. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. You’re the You’re the evangelist for for personalized philanthropy.

[00:07:37.75] spk_4:
I believe I am,

[00:08:04.99] spk_3:
I presume. Okay. Very good. We got the right person, and I mean you you brought the book. All right, Um, there’s let’s make sure now we just have a minute or so before break, but we got plenty time to talk. We’re you know, you’re here for the full hour. Let’s make sure that small and midsize shops know that they have. This is applicable to them. And they probably have advantages in trying to pivot to to be personalized philanthropists, philanthropies sent centers or shops, right?

[00:08:36.44] spk_4:
Yes. When I wrote the book, I was thinking of the person like me who was working in a small shop who had a background in annual giving and found themselves working in a major giving field. So for me, they were always connected. And I think that this is about empowering and enabling a person in a small shop to make a difference with every donor that they work with, not just the ones that there focused on for annual or planned or major giving. You meet the donor where they are. That’s the That’s the magic of this.

[00:08:43.74] spk_3:
Okay, excellent. All right. I want that reassurance. I’m very glad to hear it. And ah, Steve and I are gonna keep talking about personalized philanthropy. Stay with us.

[00:09:18.75] spk_2:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As in the new year, might you need a new C p A. A firm whose service is excellent, provides clear directions and timetables, is easy to work with and where you know, a partner That’s heat Coach Tomb has been a guest several times on the show. He’s gonna be coming back, and he will tell you whether Wagner can help you in 2020. So you start at wegner-C.P.As dot com and then pick up the phone and talk to eat. Now back to personalized philanthropy.

[00:09:29.78] spk_3:
Okay, Steve Myers, um, you talk about in the book you mentioned a few times Transformation over transaction Flush that out from. Yeah,

[00:10:17.64] spk_4:
there’s two ways to think about fundraising the usual ways to think about the donor period and have a colleague who was written a book about the Donor Life Science Cycle Pyramid and the Pyramid. You’re thinking about transactions. You’re thinking about where a donor falls as a major donor at the top, in the middle or at the bottom. Transformational fundraising. You really thinking about time you’re thinking about loyalty? You’re thinking about relationships and they can take place over time. And the problem with with the pyramid style, the transactional, is that each transaction is separate and unrelated to all the others. What personalized philanthropy does is it creates a new model where all the transactions are connected to one another so that each gift can count in a way that would never count ordinarily. And it could explain. I can give you an example

[00:10:20.15] spk_3:
of examples stories. Just imagine.

[00:11:01.84] spk_4:
Imagine a rope. What end of the rope is the first gift and another end of the rope is the last gift. This is the chain of value in in in plan giving in and fundraising. And if you know all the all the value comes out at the end when the donor dies, implant giving it well, really. And if you think about the lifetime value of a donor, the big gifts come at the end. Yes. Okay. Ah, and you’re looking for bumps and major gifts and special gifts gifts. You make frequently gifts you make once in a while during a campaign and gifts you make once when you die. So what you have is you have a long rope with a lot of knots in it. What you’re gonna do and personalized philanthropy is you’re gonna move this rope around and you’re going to connect all of the knots. And that’s good means that all of these gifts are going to be connected with what another and they’re going to be united around, Ah, common purpose that the donor has an objective goal that not one gift could achieve. But all together, they can start to make a big difference during the donor’s lifetime. That’s a radical rethinking of how philanthropy works.

[00:11:26.88] spk_3:
Can we tie the two ends of the rope together and make a circle so that it’s it’s unending and non never breaks a

[00:11:34.59] spk_4:
circle? Or you could make a

[00:11:36.25] spk_3:
don’t make a new You don’t make the news.

[00:11:43.13] spk_4:
You make it. You’ll make a circle. You’re making really a tapestry like a like a Persian rug, each each. A lifetime of giving has a different design, and each donor kind of weaves their own tapestry of giving as they go through their life.

[00:12:01.54] spk_3:
Okay, I won’t force you to take the metaphor any further. We’re going to start making cat beds, and that’s not okay. Okay, um, Now, you you run at the Weizmann Institute, the Center for Personalized Philanthropy. I’m I’m betting that it wasn’t called the Center for Personalized Philanthropy. When you first got there, you had to make some changes.

[00:12:26.42] spk_4:
I was the national director of plan giving that I was the national vice president for plan giving. And then ultimately, we decided to abandon the title of plan given, because

[00:12:28.02] spk_3:
sounds very solid. And may Trixie to me. Well, it was

[00:12:38.14] spk_4:
it was we came to realize that plan giving us Justus much asylum or channel has any of these other pains, and we weren’t working that way anymore. So we wanted to change that. Actually, what inspired the change from plan giving to personalized philanthropy was when my organization, the Weizmann Institute, decided to establish a center for personalized medicine. That’s a collaborative, multi disciplinary, interdisciplinary program where people are, um, um, collaborating in all kinds of new ways. And when I heard that phrase personalized medicine, You mean this medicine is designed for one person only. And it’s gonna work the first time

[00:13:11.97] spk_3:
in their DNA to select connected

[00:13:56.12] spk_4:
with that with their Deanna. Why, You know, that just was a wake up call for me that that’s what Philanthropy and fund raising Auto bay. All right, one of you kind of full spectrum. All the building blocks should be available to you. You bring them toe where the donor is, rather than trying to sell them something that you have you been instructed, really? Basically toe bring to them and ask them, Would you make a gift of X for this math, building, math and science building? And it doesn’t matter if the person cares about math or science. Maybe they were in the art department or they were a into literature or poetry. And why would they?

[00:14:15.44] spk_3:
Yeah, but we need based on our needs, space, the organization’s needs. But now you had to do some cultural and organizational change to create the the the Center for Personalized Philanthropy. What advice do you have for people who want to initiate this in their own organization? How do we start that conversation?

[00:14:31.62] spk_4:
I wouldn’t make a lot. I wouldn’t wait a lot for the organization to change its culture or its policies or procedures. Personalized plate. That is something that you could begin to think about when you kind of open up your your mind first realize that there is this matrix of Silas and channels that all of our fundraising basically is in. Right. And you want to try to find a way to connect your current giving in your future, giving around where your donors are at. And in order to do that you need like like an personalized medicine. They have technology. They have. They’re using technology in new ways. They have computational biology, so they could look at all this life science information in a systematic way. And this technology allows them to personalize medicine. So we have to have some tools that allow us to do this. And so I developed these things that I called killer APS. They are gift designs for bringing together current and future gifts that could be personalized and individually tailored to work with each donor.

[00:16:09.74] spk_3:
Yes, and we’re gonna get to the killer APs. But where were sporting neos throughout the throughout the world And there are in small, most of them listeners. There’s a small and midsize nonprofits, and they want to start a conversation about making a shift to personalize philanthropy from the Matrix that they are now burdened with right? I were want some tips. How did they start? But they’re going to sound like a lunatic the first time they go to their vice president or their CEO executive director, personalized philanthropy. And they have rope metaphors and not something you know how may be based on your own experience or, you know you’re coaching of others. How do we get this process started in our own currently matrix to shop?

[00:17:03.18] spk_4:
Well, as I said, the first thing you have to do is wake up to the fact that you’re working in a silo. Oh, and awareness awareness. And then you need to look outside of yourself outside of your silo. And, for instance, if you’re involved in playing giving, you know that one of the things that really makes that correlates with the plan gift is the donor who gives all the time. A donor who gives frequently tends to be the kind of person who wants to remember your organization in their estate plans. In fact, they may already have done that. So you would think, Wouldn’t it be amazing if we, without changing very much of this donor’s habit or pattern of giving. They could have a much greater impact today, instead of waiting until their death when they’re bequest comes in so kind of realizing that it’s possible Tiu have impact and recognition for a donor that begins right now.

[00:17:20.60] spk_3:
Okay, were so we’re gonna look to methods off current recognition and current value for both the organization and the and the donor, right, rather than long term. All right, All right, let’s start and and you have the killer APs before we get to the killer APS I think I’d like you just explain the spend rate because the Apsara largely dependent on an endowment spend rate, and there may very well be organization. I don’t even have an endowment yet, so let’s explain, spend rate.

[00:17:56.70] spk_4:
This personalized philanthropy works whether or not you have an endowment or not, Right. If you don’t have an endowment, you still need to have cash reserves, and you still need to be able to be financially sound. So that’s an objective that every organization has, even if they’re, ah, food bank or the kind of organization where they believe that they should not have an endowment. So

[00:18:05.04] spk_3:
there are a good number of them. There’s a

[00:19:09.34] spk_4:
lot of them out there, actually smaller ones, right? But the basic principle involved here is what I would call something like like this. It’s the grail of fundraising. The question that is not asked very often by donors to the organization is what’s the best gift that I could give you if I could give you anything that you wanted? Most organizations would ask for ID, like a gift of cash, and I like it right now. Thank you very much on and they would, and they would like to have it for general purposes. Um, but the question that they don’t know to ask is, Can we have a gift that will start working right away? Because we need to pay our bills. We have current deeds, and we also want to sustain ourselves for the future. So we need a gift that starts now and grows and scales up for the future. And most people in plain giving our only focus on the future. And most people in major and annual giving our only focus current president. So this grail of fundraising is the gift that really is the ultimate, the kind of gift that the organization needs the most but doesn’t even know how to ask for. OK, and that’s the kind of gift that we’re talking.

[00:19:17.70] spk_3:
All right, let’s define spend rate for people, and then we’ll get to your killer. APS spends Ben Drake

[00:19:21.72] spk_4:
please in an endowment on down when it’s usually thought to be the most important type of gift because a person makes a gift. And instead of being expended immediately, it goes into a bank account, an investment program, and each year a certain percentage of that fund is spent on the on the project or the program or the program, whatever that might be. And usually it’s like 5%.

[00:19:44.09] spk_3:
Yeah, I’ve seen between, like, three and 1/2 and five okay and used to

[00:19:50.64] spk_4:
used to be higher with the With Economy tanked a few years ago, I was spending rates began to to drop

[00:19:54.26] spk_3:
right because this is the amount that you’re spending from your endowment, and your endowment is supposed to be perpetual. So when investment returns or low spend rate spend, rates come down. This is typically decided by the board or maybe a committee of the board each year and Sometimes they look at the role of the average of the past three years returns. And that’s all financial stuff like

[00:20:15.68] spk_4:
if you What’s the idea?

[00:20:23.24] spk_3:
That, yeah, I’ve just wanna just feeling a little background, so to spend rate. So the spend rate changes from year to year. That’s the point. And typically you see same like three and 1/2 to 5. Or usually it’s

[00:20:46.84] spk_4:
around around 5%. And for the purpose of the conversation, it’s It’s pretty good. So that if someone makes $100,000 gift for an endowed scholarship and the scholarship is a proxy for whatever is something that’s really important to the donor into the school or the meshing, yes, then that $100,000 is going to produce, like, $5000

[00:20:50.38] spk_3:
each year we spend each year 5005% of endowment. Okay,

[00:20:54.90] spk_4:
so that’s how that’s how the spend rate works. And the goal of every fundraiser is to go out and get that endowment gift.

[00:21:00.65] spk_3:
All right, now we got the basics. Your first killer app is the virtual endowment. What is that? Well, that sounds very jargon e Virtually we have George in jail on tony-martignetti non profit radio. Okay, but I know you’re gonna get yourself out quickly.

[00:21:47.08] spk_4:
I’ll try. Well, you take that endowment that you just talked about the $100,000 that produces $5000 a year. You turned it upside down. This sounds like the veg. A Matic I didn’t. OK, he turned it upside down. It produces the donors, is giving you the $5000 a year every every year, say, for five years or 10 years. And that is going to be treated as if it were the product of an endowment that is yet to be created. So this donor has you in their will already say, for $100,000 they’re pretty comfortable giving you $5000 a year. They’ve been doing that without even being asked for him. It was maybe for general purpose.

[00:21:51.00] spk_3:
But they’re not comfortable giving you the $100,000 that’s right during their life, or at least at this point

[00:22:04.16] spk_4:
in their life. But their pattern of giving is such that an annual giver already and they care about the organization. So at the end of the rope, the end of the chain of living and giving is that $100,000? So why

[00:22:10.56] spk_3:
just come a little closer to the mic?

[00:22:14.46] spk_4:
Okay, thank you. So who is to say that getting that $5000 every year and then getting the $100,000 later where the program becomes self sustaining? Who’s to say that that’s not just a valuable as getting the $100,000 up front

[00:22:28.33] spk_3:
right? Okay,

[00:22:29.16] spk_4:
that’s a virtual endowment. And then with when the donor passes away, the virtual endowment essentially becomes a true and down

[00:22:53.82] spk_3:
okay. Or if they have a life event that changes their circumstances and they’re able to fund their endowment fully or maybe even half of some, you know, big Big bump while they’re living, that’s great. But in the meantime, they’re giving you what you would have spent from the endowment anyway. Brilliant. It’s very simple. Not too many organizations do this, though. I think

[00:22:56.53] spk_4:
it They don’t do that often because they’re focused on having a separate annual campaign, and they’re on to maintain that base of annual donors. And they have a whole maybe either they have a whole separate division of department and a department head who focuses on annual giving and another department that focuses on major giving it another one that focuses on plan giving. And they just they don’t connect up. And they have a lot of issues about who owns the donor and speak to the donor. So and what are you doing speaking to that donor there, Not a plan giving prospect,

[00:23:44.78] spk_3:
right? So if this this donor that you’re describing ah doesn’t meet the major gift level because here she can’t afford the $100,000 outright, then they’ll go to the Maybe they’ll drop to the or be shifted over to the annual giving team or something, but they won’t think of it as a virtual endowment. They’ll just think of it is we get $5000 a year from this person, but they’re not thinking longer term. And it’s usually when that annual fund silo

[00:24:03.46] spk_4:
in the Matrix that the preferred gift in the Matrix matrix general unrestricted gifts because we know how to spend your money better than you do right, and we need it to keep our operations go.

[00:24:12.49] spk_3:
So they’re not thinking about devoting it to a purpose that might later be endowed fully. That’s right. Later in the person’s life or at their data.

[00:24:18.83] spk_4:
And if if the purpose is central to the organization, if they had that endowment and they could do anything they wanted with it, they would most likely be funding those kind of programmes anyway.

[00:24:38.89] spk_3:
Yeah, okay. Okay. Killer APS. Okay, before we get to the killer APS ah, two and three just make clear why they’re called killer APS.

[00:25:08.44] spk_4:
They’re called killer APS because, like with any kind of technology, when new technology comes on, it just sort of wipes out everything that’s come before it thes when you employ the zaps and you work with them with donors, they achieve gifts that are so much greater. The donor you were talking about who was the $5000 donor now becomes a major donor because they’re giving $5000 a year and they have $100,000 on the books. So that could be, you know, a $200,000 down or even a much larger donor. It just changes the way you think about how you how you work. You really don’t want to go back to living in that silo Once you’ve been able to span plan major on annual giving through one of these per highly personalized gifts. They really work amazingly well.

[00:25:30.44] spk_3:
Excellent. Okay, we’re gonna take a little paws much more with Steve Myers coming up. We’re gonna talk about the philanthropic mortgage and step up GIF, ts and how your solicitations are gonna change.

[00:27:01.64] spk_2:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software in the new year. Might you need accounting software? Cougar Mountain will help you organize your numbers. It’s designed from the bottom up for nonprofits. Meaning it’s built for you. For our community. Their customer service is excellent. So you know you’ve got backup if you need it. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now, time for Tony’s take 24 Must have to start your plan giving in 2020. I hope that if you’re not already kicked off with plan giving, you’re not already deep into it. That 2020 is gonna be the year you get started. I have four things that I believe you need in place before you can get started there. Simple. But you gotta have some things lined up. Thio have ah decent chance of success of this at your inaugural planned giving program. And the first of these is you have to be at least five years old so that donors are confident that your organization will live beyond them. So I like to see at least those five years of history and for the other four must have for the other three must have of the four. Check out the video. It’s at tony-martignetti dot com, and that is tony Steak, too. Now, back to personalized philanthropy. Our second entry in the Innovators, Siri’s

[00:27:11.82] spk_3:
Steve Myers never went anywhere. Took a couple sips of water. Thank you for your indulgence. Let’s talk about another killer app. The philanthropic mortgage. What you got going on there? The idea of

[00:27:47.84] spk_4:
the philanthropic mortgage seems so intuitive, but it’s something that we would never be able to think about in a highly silent and channeled environment that they call the fundraising matrix. Yeah, philanthropic mortgage. When you when you buy a house, you don’t have to pay for it in full before you move into it. You’re not. You create a mortgage. This mortgage you are paying you’re making like one payment and the payment goes partly for interests, and the other part of it goes to build equity in your in your home bills Equity principle? Yeah, yeah, building, building

[00:27:50.63] spk_3:
prints and build equity. But basically,

[00:28:50.05] spk_4:
the idea here is that you’re it’s just same ideas wth e the virtual endowment. A person can make a gift of that spending rate for the for the scholarship that they’d like to have. And so the scholarship can start up right away and then in the virtual endemic, they’re going to make slight, sort of like a balloon payment at the end of their life. They’re gonna pay it off through their request. But in the idea of a philanthropic mortgage, you can pay more than just the quote unquote interest. You could also pay a little more than the spending rate. The operating annual cost of that on that little bit extra goes to creating and building equity in your endowment fund. Beautiful. So over years over time, you could build the equity in your fund and your program can begin right away. So if you’re talking about a scholarship or a professorial chair, you get to meet that incumbent. You get to get the letters from them. You get to go and play an active part and have a relationship with the organization of the people that

[00:28:57.32] spk_3:
you’re supporting. So going back to our hypothetical before maybe that donor is giving $10,000 a year or 7500 year. 5000 is the spend rate. And then the surplus goes to start building up that endowment, which will be fully funded at some balloon payment with some balloon payment in future. That’s exactly what all right, all

[00:29:37.91] spk_4:
right. There’s an even more interesting example that relates to this up to a donor who’s maybe a little bit older and they’re going to have to. And they have an IRA Ira now that that the permanent ah charitable rollover is in effect, right? We know that it’s gonna happen all the time. We want to wait to the end of the year, and guests wait to the last minute so we could make these gifts whenever we want to. So that means if you’re working with the donor who is going to be 70 and 1/2 in the next couple of years, they’re going to start taking money out on a regular basis

[00:29:42.18] spk_3:
right that required minimum distribution

[00:30:34.95] spk_4:
wired to do that. And let’s say that they don’t need it to live. Then that could become, ah, part of the, you know, both part of the virtual endowment, and it can also be part of the little extra that they might have. So working with a donor who for the first couple of years is just paying the spending right to create a post doctor old chair in computer science because he loves that. But towards the end of the schedule, he’s going to reach the age of 17 and 1/2. He’s going to get a huge for him, at least required minimum distribution. That’s going to be his balloon payment, right? So he’s gonna pay the regular amount. And then the last year, he’s gonna receive a much larger amount from his IRA. And he’s gonna add that complete his the endowment that he writes for the post doctoral fellowship in his parent’s names.

[00:31:09.30] spk_3:
I’d like to think of the IRA now, especially because of the rollover is well, it’s actually a qualified charitable distribution, but everybody knows there’s a roll over because that’s now permanent. We might start to see, You know, Ira’s sort of become I have many foundation You can do your charitable giving through your i. R a. Have a count toward this required minimum distribution, which for a lot of people, is more than they want or need. And then you’re not You’re not text on it. You avoid the federal income tax on that, that distribution or that gift to, ah, the charity.

[00:31:22.88] spk_4:
So that only doesn’t have a value as a transaction. Because each time, as you pointed out, you don’t have to pay tax on the money that you’re giving away. You’ll never taxed on it. Essentially, you can use it strategically to grow your on pay the spending rate and the operating costs for your program. So we’re gonna begin right away,

[00:31:35.82] spk_3:
transformational and transactions. What? It’s okay. We agree. It’s not a hostile environment. You think you’re walking into a hostile environment? Yeah. Okay. Um, your final killer app is, uh, step up gift sort of a hybrid. Talk about talk about to step up.

[00:33:27.82] spk_4:
It’s a hybrid that person might be able to Ah, um this is one of those gifts that people wouldn’t think about because they would think that I could never have a professorial chair, at least not during my lifetime, because the professorial chair cost of 1,000,000 or $2 million that’s gonna be more than likely that will be in my estate. But I can’t really find a way to access that money now, however I can. I do have that $5000 that I’ve been giving every year for general purposes, and I could continue to do that for a number of years so I could start off by funding that scholarship we talked about earlier, that $100,000 scholarship that cost $5000 a year. So during my lifetime with Simon older donor, I could have that masters or other scholarship that could begin right now and then upon my death, um, the funds from my estate bequest for my estate could step up that endowment to the 1,000,000 or $2 million level. So basically my gift would step up from a master scholarship or a doctoral scholarship or a postdoctoral scholar ship all the way up to a professorial chair through my estate. Okay. And my plan would be put together so that the totality of my plane would be understood by both myself and by the charity that I’m working with from the very beginnings, right? This is a comprehensive that truly is a transformational give. It transforms from an annual gift to a major scholarship gift and to really a very substantial estate gift in there, all tied together around the same purpose, even though there are separate gifts that function for different purposes along the way. And then ultimately they all go for the same purpose.

[00:33:42.99] spk_3:
How do the killer APS and the smashing of the Matrix and the creation of a personalized philanthropy? How do these all come together to change our solicitations?

[00:35:39.14] spk_4:
That’s really a good question. I think it changes the way. First of all, it it changes the way that you think If you go back to the back to the movie The Matrix, when people see The Matrix, they sort of acquire these magical powers that could kind of see around corners and they can fly. They can defy the laws of physics because they understand the world in a in a way that was different in the way they understood it before. So if you are uh, if your practice becomes one of personalized philanthropy, you’re kind of working as an enlightened generalised. You have all the gifts, all the building blocks of philanthropy that you can bring to bear on each person wherever they are, and that’s going to change the nature of your work. You’re going to be basically sitting on the same side of the table as the donor, really an ally, ah, force to help them achieve what they want to and realize what’s what’s possible that they never would have thought was possible before by connecting all these small, modest gifts that they could make during their lifetime with the larger gifts that they could make through their estate, essentially changing the whole value change so the value can come out when they want it to come out and achieve that impact and begin to change society now. So that means that instead of just kind of being a hit and run kind of fundraiser like the annual fund people come in, I’d like to get the same thing I got last year, maybe a little bit more, and then move on to something else. Instead, you’re connected with the stoner through time. You’re not just looking at them at a point on the donor pyramid, you’re looking at their whole lifetime value as a donor and that that changes everything. The changes, the process for developing a personalized gift is much different. Thin. The solicitation of a typical asked for a regular

[00:35:59.12] spk_3:
Don’t you’re so stations. There’s gonna be more questioning and what’s important to you and what what brings you joy around the work that we do and right and more of a process than a discreet sit down. And the loser is the one who talks first after the ask is made. And then in four days there’s a follow up phone call. What are your thoughts about what we pitched very different.

[00:36:12.97] spk_4:
It’s it’s really completely, utterly.

[00:36:13.97] spk_3:
So what are some of the things that you ask about in your solicitation meetings? Well, it’s not

[00:36:25.93] spk_4:
that I ask any pursuit different questions than other fundraisers would. Just when I’m when I’m my thinking is different. I’m listening. I’m listening in a different way. And, uh

[00:36:30.34] spk_3:
So what are you doing? Let us into that neo brain. Okay, Well, what are you doing? What I’m trying

[00:37:25.54] spk_4:
to do is, I’m trying to discover what what matters to them and what I have that other fundraisers don’t have is that I have these killer APs that can connect to where the donor is so that if a donor has a habit of giving annually, I couldn’t begin to think about how might they have a greater impact by connecting all those gifts that they’re doing? If they gave for the last 10 years, $5000 a year? Chances are pretty good that they won’t be offended if we talk about. If you continue your pattern of giving, you could have a whole different kind of impact than you. Then you were having beef here, so it’s It’s a different, different tools and technology that I could use. I don’t have to sell them the math building when there are really more interested in the arts and music program. I could start with where with where they with where they’re at. Okay, so that that makes all the difference,

[00:37:32.33] spk_3:
right? Thanks for letting us into that head. We wanna when I want to be there, explicitly, even though we’re there for the hour. But it’s

[00:37:53.00] spk_4:
a good head to Bay because you you’re not just talking about donor centric donor focused giving. When you get this information, you can use it so that if a donor is ah, if they may already have included you in their estate plans, thanks a lot of donors they will that will do that without even being asked. That’s that’s where they begin. So you know that there’s going to be endowment. Possible atT. The end. Now you could begin to talk with them about connecting the current giving so that the impact of that future gift can start. Now.

[00:38:09.42] spk_3:
We have just about two minutes before break, and in those couple minutes I want you to flush out something. You talk in the book about the four Children from the Passover Seder? Yeah, just a couple minutes. How do they figure into this? The four Children who are they and what’s in there

[00:38:24.21] spk_4:
in the past, over in the past, over service. If this is part of the service that gets recited every year, so people know these names that might be familiar with him, so you could

[00:38:32.26] spk_3:
well, they think that we’re going to Passover seders. I’ve only been to one in my life, and I don’t remember the four Children.

[00:39:36.73] spk_4:
So the four Children, the Seder, are the wise, the wicked, the simple and the one who doesn’t know how to ask. So just imagine that these people have grown up and become donors and each one of them in the past, over service. The idea is to try to reach each individual, each type of Children of child where they are, um, and begin with what they are, who they are at, relate to them as individuals. Ah, and then you build out, you build out from that. So the four Children who begin to think about them as donors, you begin to focus on ah, where they’re at. If they’re wise, they might give it. That might be the kind of person who gives every year without being asked if they’re wicked. They might, uh, wicked is not. Ah, it’s not a bad term. In this case, it’s a kind of a positive thing because the person would be discerning very smart. They might have an interest in taking care of their loved ones as well. The donor, who is simple, just might begin with a bequest because as the seeds were planted before them. They will continue to plant the seeds for the future. And the donor who doesn’t have to know how to ask, is the one who has a charitable inclination but doesn’t know how to scratch that itch. So they’re the most fun to work with the ball.

[00:39:55.88] spk_3:
Beautiful. That’s great story. I kind of wish we’d ended with that, but we’re not anything but we’ll have a good ending anyway. Let’s go out for a break when we come back. Stephen, I’m gonna keep talking, talking a little about counting all these new gifts that you’re gonna be getting. Stay with us

[00:40:39.51] spk_2:
time for our last break in the new year. Might you want to build relationships with journalists who matter to you so that when news breaks and you want to be part of the public conversation, you’ve got the best shot turn to is former journalists, including for the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know how to build relationships with journalists and other media, and that’s how you get great coverage when it matters. Because you’ve got existing relationships. There are turn hyphen to dot CEO. We’ve got butt loads more time for personalized philanthropy.

[00:40:59.41] spk_3:
Okay, Steve Myers, we’re gonna have lots of new gifts coming in, and you’re pretty. You’re pretty generous about counting. You don’t seem very generous. Don’t say that in the book, but it’s between between the lines you want. You want to give as much credit as possible? Not Not surprising. Really? Um, yes. Yes, you do. Um, let’s talk about, say, I’m gonna hash. We break this down So we look at the killer APS and how they would be counted or what? You’re what? You’re counting philosophy. Generally. Let’s start there.

[00:41:11.01] spk_4:
Okay. Uh, the prime directive for me in counting is don’t just count one number.

[00:41:18.61] spk_3:
Yes. You said that explicitly. The book? Yeah.

[00:41:32.18] spk_4:
Everything in our lives. It’s the sort of damage, please. Hanging over the head of every fund raiser, its financial resource development. And, um, how much did you raise? You have to How much did you raise? What did you raise? And if

[00:41:35.53] spk_2:
you don’t have

[00:42:56.62] spk_4:
an answer for that, someone else will. It’ll be a new accounting formula financial formula that tells what the present value is of all the gifts that came in. And of course, the president value doesn’t include bequests or request expect expectancies. It doesn’t include the kind of cultivation in the activities that you d’oh. It reduces everything that comes out of the system that doesn’t not have a present value. Yeah, and as fundraisers know, there’s a lot of things that we do that that would be considered his fundraising achievements that normally don’t count. So we wanna have a way of describing what it is that we do that goes along with how we feel about what fundraising achievement actually is. So when I say don’t count just one number, what we’re really saying is there is one number that you have to be aware of it. Everybody has to know that. But there’s a complement of that one number, and it’s a multi dimensional set of numbers that can help us to measure our own effectiveness and convey to the people that we are working with and for what all this fundraising has been about. And really, there are three kinds of gifts that we we like to count outright gifts that count 100% gifts that there would be like Category one gifts,

[00:42:58.32] spk_3:
cash and cash equivalents. Call those the category one cash

[00:43:04.90] spk_4:
cash equivalents that would include pledges that air like payable over a couple of years.

[00:43:06.84] spk_3:
Legally binding. I get legally binding pledge.

[00:43:51.20] spk_4:
It’s legally binding. Pledge is okay, and legally binding pledges could include pledges that are payable over 12 or three years but also pledges for older donors that are going to be considered as bookable or irrevocable from their estates. That’s another type of ah, gift that would count in this cash or cash equivalents. The second category is the irrevocable gifts that we we raised the charitable remainder trust and gift annuities and part of the value of them would count in that one number, and the rest of the wood would not count until they were later received. And the third category is revocable gifts or or bequests that are expected but that have not yet been received.

[00:43:54.38] spk_3:
And they’re not legally binding.

[00:43:55.79] spk_4:
And they’re not. And they’re not legally because

[00:43:57.51] spk_3:
there are ways of making a bequest legally binding. If the person signed a contract to buying their estate, um, testamentary contract. Okay, so

[00:44:14.13] spk_4:
this, uh, this journey towards personalized philanthropy really began for me with this question of what am I doing here? What?

[00:44:14.85] spk_3:
I just asked that question about 1/2 an hour. Just asked. That’s a

[00:44:40.24] spk_4:
really good question. You should always be asking, What am I doing here? And if you’re on task, you’re doing something that relates to one of those kinds of gifts. You’re cultivating a donor for a future gift your culture. Get cultivating them for a gift that can provide income to them now and a gift to you later. And you’re also cultivating the firm, a gift that they could make now and that you can have now that could be both cash or it can be assets other other than cash. And that’s how you would evaluate what you’re doing in kind of a multi disciplinary way.

[00:44:49.22] spk_1:
How do you

[00:44:57.49] spk_3:
like toe? Give credit to fundraisers for activities that aren’t quantifiable, you know, advancements in a relationship. But the person didn’t increase their giving this year or pledged to in the future. You know all those activities that meaningful but non quantifiable,

[00:45:09.68] spk_4:
right? Yeah. You want to

[00:45:10.65] spk_3:
How do we help fundraisers be recognised? Well,

[00:45:42.77] spk_4:
you know, we develop metrics out of these out of these out of activities, and you try to figure out the ones that are going to be important for you, and you embrace the ones that are important for you now sometimes, um, people go way overboard on this. There was one fundraiser that I know who travels around a lot to meet with donors. And his supervisor wanted to him to quantify, um, how much, um, money per per mile he was raising. He said, Oh, no, no,

[00:45:46.45] spk_3:
I won’t do that on.

[00:45:48.10] spk_4:
He was senior enough that he was able to avoid that in another system. They wanted to know. What is this fundraiser doing? Every 15 minutes? It’s almost

[00:45:56.80] spk_3:
Oh, my God, It’s like law firms.

[00:45:57.84] spk_4:
Like a lot

[00:46:11.12] spk_3:
of booking for way. I used to book a six minute increments. All right, we just have about a minute, lad. We don’t want to do right. We do that. That’s not to do we have about a minute left? Leave us with some things that we should be measuring to give credit to fundraisers. Some examples of what you measure you like to measure

[00:46:39.89] spk_4:
well, when you, when you do these blended gifts with blended gifts come from a combination of current and future gifts. So you want to measure the gifts, all of their dimensionality, so that you could compare them to the single present value along with all the value that they’re going to bring to the organization beginning right now. So if you’re going back to the person that we were speaking of before, go

[00:46:40.25] spk_3:
ahead, you have to wrap it up.

[00:46:41.22] spk_4:
Okay, Well, uh, their gift is gonna have an immediate impact, and it’s gonna grow and scale up over time. And that’s what you want to try to achieve that, That that’s the grail of fundraising.

[00:47:12.14] spk_3:
And that’s if you want to track yet. Okay, we have to leave it there. Steve Myers, vice president, the Center for Personalized Philanthropy at the American Committee for the Weizmann Institute of Science. You’ll find him on Twitter at Steven Myers. 863 The book. Get the book. It’s personalized. Philanthropy crashed the fundraising metrics. It’s at Amazon, and it’s also a charity channel, which is the publisher

[00:47:59.44] spk_2:
next week. Our innovators, Siri’s continues with leading systems change. What did I say earlier in the show that next week would not be innovators? Siri’s? That was a mistake that definitely is the innovative Siri’s third entry, and it’ll be alive. Finally, live innovators. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com It’s still occurs to me. I need an intern to blame for these mistakes. It’s it’s unbelievable. By Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? So if you know anybody who wants to be a blamed in turn in the future, resume to tony at 20 martignetti dot com and also by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Our creative producer is

[00:49:04.47] spk_1:
Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Lieber, which is the line producer thief shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty, with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. Great voice just cracked talking alternative radio 24 hours a day, Huh?

Nonprofit Radio for January 10, 2020: Decolonizing Wealth

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My Guest:

Edgar Villanueva: Decolonizing Wealth
Edgar Villanueva’s book, “Decolonizing Wealth,” takes an innovative look at the purpose of wealth. His thesis is that the solutions to the damage and trauma caused by American capitalism—including philanthropy—can be gleaned from the values and wisdom of our nation’s original people. He’s a Native American working in philanthropy. (Originally aired 11/30/18)

 

 

 

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[00:00:13.54] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Happy New Year. I

[00:01:14.54] spk_2:
hope you enjoyed enormous amounts of time and good fun with family and friends. Lots of time off during the holidays. I hope you enjoyed the hell out of them. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. You’d get slapped with a diagnosis of metastasize. A phobia if you missed our first show in the innovators Siris de colonizing wealth You can’t always kick off a series with a live guest. Edgard Villanueva’s book De Colonizing Wealth takes an innovative look at the purpose of wealth. His thesis is that the solutions to the damage and trauma caused by American capitalism, including philanthropy, can be gleaned from the values and wisdom of our nation’s original people. He’s a Native American working in philanthropy that originally aired November 30th 2018 on Tony’s Take two planned giving for 2020 were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Here is our first guest in The Innovators, Siri’s Edgar Villanueva.

[00:01:46.97] spk_1:
That’s my great

[00:01:47.77] spk_3:
pleasure to welcome to the studio. Edgar Villanueva. He’s a nationally recognized expert on social justice philanthropy. He chairs the board of Native Americans in philanthropy and is a board member of the Andress Family Fund, working to improve outcomes for vulnerable

[00:02:04.64] spk_1:
youth. He’s an instructor

[00:02:15.34] spk_3:
with the grantmaking School at Grand Valley State University and served as vice president of programs and advocacy at the Shot Foundation for Public Education. He’s

[00:02:15.51] spk_1:
held leadership roles at Kate Be. Reynolds Charitable Trust in North Carolina and Marguerite Casey Foundation in Seattle.

[00:02:26.38] spk_3:
Edgar is an enrolled member of the Lumbee tribe of North Carolina. You’ll find him at de colonizing wealth dot com and

[00:02:33.05] spk_1:
at Villanueva Edgar and welcome to Studio.

[00:02:34.17] spk_4:
Thank you, tony. Pleasure to be here.

[00:02:35.68] spk_1:
Congratulations on the book. Thank you. Which just came out last month. Was October October 16th. Yes, all right.

[00:02:42.22] spk_3:
And you just had a very nice interview with The New York Times. Yes. Congratulations. On that day, that’s prep, prep, prep you for non profit radio,

[00:02:49.46] spk_4:
right? Right. I’m ready.

[00:02:50.80] spk_1:
All your all your media appearances

[00:02:52.77] spk_3:
to date have brought you to this moment, right? So that it’s all culminated here.

[00:02:57.61] spk_5:
Um,

[00:02:58.74] spk_1:
I promised listeners. Footnote one

[00:03:31.05] spk_3:
Footnote 12 Aah! Hyper Garg, Alice, the Asia. Of course, anybody listens to show knows that I open with something funny like that. A disease, every single show. But in Edgar’s book, he mentions hyper gargle issue Asia. So this is the first time over 400 shows that thea that the guest unknowingly has ah, provided the opening disease state. So thank you very much. You didn’t know what we do. That every single show. Um, you don’t know that

[00:03:32.16] spk_4:
I didn’t.

[00:03:32.55] spk_3:
Not listening to non profit radio. It’s It’s

[00:03:45.58] spk_1:
your life. All right. Um, okay. De colonizing wealth. Uh, you’re you’re You’re a bit of a troublemaker. A little bit. Yeah. You’re raising some eyebrows. No

[00:03:45.68] spk_4:
one told me yesterday that I was the Colin Kaepernick of philanthropy, which I was like, I haven’t thought about it that way,

[00:03:52.61] spk_1:
but that’s not

[00:04:00.05] spk_3:
all so bad. Getting closer to the mic so people can hear you. Yeah, just get not almost intimate. with it. Um, I

[00:04:00.14] spk_1:
used to call myself the Charlie

[00:04:06.38] spk_3:
Rose of charities until he blew that gig for me. You know, he ruined that. I can’t use that any longer. Um,

[00:04:08.83] spk_1:
because you talk about, ah,

[00:04:16.90] spk_3:
colonizer virus and exploitation and division. Um, like, those are bad things.

[00:04:18.64] spk_4:
Yes, they are. Bad thing.

[00:04:20.19] spk_3:
Okay. What? Ah, what is that? What’s the colonizer virus? Why do we need to de colonize

[00:04:26.84] spk_1:
so many of

[00:04:41.75] spk_4:
us who work in philanthropy or even the nonprofit sector? Um, you know, I have this firewall that were completely disconnected from Wall Street or from capitalism, or are some of those processes and systems in our country that may have a negative connotation for that, the good doers. But in philanthropy, we are not very far, you know, disconnected from corporate America. Most of this wealth was made by corporations and businesses, sometimes not in the best ways, not in

[00:05:01.97] spk_3:
the back of a lot of indigenous and colored people.

[00:05:05.18] spk_4:
Yeah. When you look at the history of the accumulation of wealth in this country, it’s steeped in trauma, right? And so legacy wealth that has been inherited for generations. Now, folks may not even know the origin of their family’s wealth. But you know, when we look back and that we see in general how wealth was accumulated? Um, you know, especially I’m from the South, North Carolina. We’ll talk about that. Um, there absolutely was a legacy of slavery and stolen lands that that help contribute to the massive wealth.

[00:05:34.94] spk_3:
And you feel there are a lot of lessons we can learn from the values of native Americans.

[00:05:40.29] spk_1:
Yeah.

[00:05:47.79] spk_4:
So, you know, we as a people talk about healing a lot. We have a lot of trauma that exists in our communities, you know, because colonization as we often think about it as something that happened five years ago in North Carolina, especially where I’m from, we were the first point of contact. But colonization and the the acts of separation and exploitation are still continuing present day. And so in my community, native communities across the country, even as recent as my grandparent’s generation, kids were forcibly removed from their homes and put into boarding schools. And so we’re still what We’re experiencing a lot of trauma as a result of these practices, but we are arias, resilient people and those who are closest to a lot of the problems that we’re trying to soft today. As a society have a lot of answers and wisdom that we can bring to the table.

[00:06:34.10] spk_3:
You say that the natives are the original philanthropists? Yes. Um, now you’re a member of the Lumbee tribe. North Carolina. That’s right. Robertson County, North Carolina. Which, which is not too far from where I own. I own a home in Pinehurst, which is a little north and west, I think of of Robertson County lumber. So the Lumbee tribe, I assume the lumber river is named for the love bees and lumber turn the town. That’s right. Name for Lum bees,

[00:07:06.91] spk_4:
Right. So lumpy is were actually named after the lumber river after river came first. Yeah, the river came first, and so

[00:07:12.25] spk_1:
certainly the river came from. The name of the river came, right, Right. River’s been

[00:07:22.29] spk_4:
there much longer. Okay? Yes. So we’re, you know, hodgepodge of historical tribes that were in coastal North Carolina that I came together to form the Lumbee tribe and named ourselves after that river.

[00:07:42.04] spk_3:
Um, and we’re gonna come back to ah, Native Americans as the as the original philanthropist, but that struck me a lot. I think. You You say you say that the end of the at the end of books, right where I caught it. Um, we have, like, a minute 1/2 or so before a break. So just we’re introducing this. We got playing time together. Wealth, you say, divides us, controls us, exploits us. What’s that about?

[00:07:53.94] spk_4:
So the accumulation of wealth so money in itself is neutral. Wealth in itself, I say is is neutral. But it’s the way that wealth has been accumulated in this country that has caused harm when we value when we, you know, fear and were motivated by greed on the acts that could result as as a result of that to exploit the land and to exploit people or what? That’s what has calls the Harmon itself. So, um, the case that I’m going to make in this book that I’m making in this book is that wealth and money can actually be used for the good. If it historically has been used as a negative thing that has calls trauma, we can flip that to use it for something that can actually help repair the harm that has been done.

[00:08:36.03] spk_3:
You’ve got 7/16 steps to that. The second half of your book. All right, We’ll take our first break.

[00:09:08.03] spk_2:
It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As in the new year, might you need a new c p A. A firm whose service is excellent, who provides clear direction and timetables and is easy to work with. And you know where you know a partner There, There where? You know, a partner you touch to talk to him. He’ll tell you honestly whether they can help you in the new year. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Now back to de colonizing wealth.

[00:09:17.69] spk_3:
Now back to Naghani Onishi! That is your Indian name. Did I by any chance, say that correctly?

[00:09:20.61] spk_4:
I think that’s correct. I’m a little shampoo with my Ojibwe these days.

[00:09:33.91] spk_1:
You don’t know your boy That sounds that is your Indian name. Yes. Uh, leading bird. Tell the story of how

[00:09:34.78] spk_3:
you got that name. We’ll come back to you. Don’t. I will come back to the exploitation and control. Don’t think this is a good story. How you got that name?

[00:11:01.71] spk_4:
So my tribe, the Lumbee Tribal North Carolina doesn’t have a tradition of naming you are whatever your mom calls you. That’s your name, right? That’s right. So But when I when I was working in North Carolina and native communities, I went to a conference where there was a medicine man and someone the medicine man was meeting with folks who wanted time with with him to talk or have a session. And growing up in North Carolina, my identity as a native has always been quite complicated. We didn’t have these types of practices in my home in Raleigh, North Carolina. And so But I was very curious to meet with this medicine man and Thio see what could happen from that encounter. And someone told me, If you’re if you’re really lucky when you meet with the medicine man, they might give you a spiritual name or a native name. Um And so I met with this guy in the Marriott Hotel in Denver, Colorado, where this this Native Health Conference. So it was all, ah, tell the story in the book is quite, um, hilarious and in many ways let the Indian of our session where I was feeling excited about, you know, the conversation we had, but also a little confused and skeptical in some ways because I, you know, had such colonized ways of thinking. He did offer me a native named Johnny Benesch A which means leading bird. So I was very honored. And my first thought was, What kind of bird, right? Am I a little Tweety bird or in my mighty eagle Republicans? Right. Birds are vest. So, um, he explained to me that I was the type of bird that flies in a V formation. Um, And as I when I left, I studied of these birds and they’re

[00:11:22.06] spk_3:
the leading bird I’m deleting. There is leading Berg.

[00:12:02.84] spk_4:
I’m the bird that flies in the front of the V formation, which is the kind of leader that is often visible but really understands its co dependence and interdependence on the other birds. And so if you watch birds flying in a V formation, it’s really like amazing natural, you know, national phenomenon. How, ah, how they communicate and fly together. The other thing that’s remarkable about the leading birds type of leadership is that it often will fly to the back of the pack and push another bird ford. So it’s not always the one that’s out front. And when I when I learned these characteristics, I just felt really I was really, really happy and content about this name because I do see that’s the type of leadership that I model in my everyday life. And I think it’s a type of leadership that’s really important for the nonprofit sector.

[00:12:19.17] spk_3:
You explain how the birds communicate, which I’ve always wondered. They’re just close enough that they can feel vibrations off each other and our micro movements. I think you say off each other. But they’re not so close that they’re gonna bump into each other and, you know, be injured. That’s how they say, I guess they’re feeling the breeze off each other and sensing these micro movements of each other. So they’re that close, but not so close that they could be injured, right?

[00:12:41.69] spk_4:
It’s there. It’s very fascinating. It’s like a scientific, uh, you know, GPS built into their bodies. And the other thing I recently heard about these birds is that you don’t ever find one that dies alone. And so you know, I want to learn research that a little bit more, but I think when they’re when someone is down are you know there’s an injury or whatever may happen? They there’s there’s a certain way that they take care of each other. And so, um, you know, it just kind of speaks to our common humanity and our Inter related, you know, being inter related

[00:13:19.31] spk_3:
exactly our interdependence. Now this is this is an indigenous belief that we are all related. And that’s what it makes me think of the birds also absolutely working so closely together that they feel micro movements. But how explain this this belief that we are each of one of us related to to eat all the other?

[00:13:35.43] spk_4:
Yes. Oh, there there is, ah, native belief, all my relations. That means you’re all of our suffering is mutual. All of our thriving is mutual. And, ah, you know, we are We are interdependent. And so it’s a very different mindset, or world view from sort of the American individualistic type of mindset. Um, we also have connected to that viewpoint is on this idea of seven generations. So not only are we all related, you know, in this room right now and that we’re relatives on and we are related to the land and to the animals around us. But all of the things all of the decisions and that we’re making today are gonna impact future generations. So there’s an idea that I am someone’s ancestor. And so what a responsibility to move through the world in a way that is thinking that far forward about our our young people. And so these are concepts that were taught to me by my family. But also in recent years, this book gave me the opportunity to revisit and spend time with indigenous elders to remember these teachings and that, and to think about how to apply them in my work.

[00:14:47.45] spk_3:
And you encourage us to each that each one of us takes responsibility. For as you said, we’re thriving and suffering together. Um, what I’m referring to is the each of us takes responsibility for the colonizer virus. Say more about that.

[00:15:03.48] spk_4:
Yes. So, you know, I think

[00:15:04.78] spk_3:
Are we all responsible?

[00:15:18.54] spk_4:
We’re all responsible because we’re all affected. I think some folks we, you know, we learn about colonization and schools is something that seems pretty normal, right? We we think of colonization and the colonizers as heroes,

[00:15:22.47] spk_3:
like the natural path of progress. Absolutely Way. It’s learned,

[00:15:59.68] spk_4:
right? We have holidays, you know, for for Christopher Columbus, for example. And so but the realities are that colonization, um, was something that was terrible that resulted in genocide and all types of exploitation. And that type of history that we have in this country is something that we as as the people have not come to terms with we. Actually, we don’t tell the truth. We don’t face the truth. And so I think we’re still dealing with the consequences. S o the dynamics of colonization which are to divide, to control, to exploit, to separate those dynamics. You know, I refer to them as the colonizing virus because they they’re still in our bodies. As as a nation, they show up in our policies are systems reflect the colonizer virus and in our institutions, in the nonprofit sector and especially in philanthropy, where we are sitting on lots of money, privilege and power,

[00:16:27.93] spk_3:
least naturally, to your point about us, them organizations

[00:17:12.06] spk_4:
Absolutely. So you know, I think the philanthropy, for example, can perpetuate you know, the dynamics of colonization. Because when you look at where this where this money came from and how we as a sector don’t face the realities of that truth. Ah, would you look at, um asked the question of why this money was held back from public coffers that, you know, had it gone into the tax system, it would be supporting this safety net and vulnerable communities on when you look at who gets to allocate, manage and spend. Did you see a very white, dominant kind of mindset happening? Because, for example, if we get into the numbers just a little bit, foundations said on $800 billion of assets, that’s a lot of money that has been, you know, shelter from taxation. That’s money that would have gone into public education, healthcare, elder care, things that we need for the infrastructure of our communities. But that money has been put there with little to no accountability of private foundations are only required by the RS Thio payout 5% of their assets. And so then, you know you’re looking at just a small percentage of money that was intended to be for the public. Good on Lee, a small percentage is actually leaving the doors being invested in community

[00:18:18.61] spk_3:
Let’s assume it’s I know there are a lot of foundations that use that 5% minimum as their maximum, so that 05% of that would be $40 billion. So the counter is bad, but there’s $40 billion coming each year. Could be more. But let’s take the minimum just to be conservative. And, you know, we’re trying to preserve this, uh, this foundation capital for perpetuity. So if you know, if we if we spent in the next two years, the 800 billion, then we wouldn’t have anything left for future, just future years and other generations were tryingto no, we want to be around for in perpetuity. The foundations would say

[00:18:29.13] spk_4:
right, right? And,

[00:18:30.24] spk_1:
you know, I

[00:19:43.06] spk_4:
think that I think there is a case to be made for saving some funds for a rainy day in the future. But the truth is that 5% when Congress had acted that 5% rule, um, it actually began at 6% I believe in 1974 and then in 1976 was lowered to 5%. The reason that Congress had to actually put this legislation forward is because foundations were not paying out any money. And so when you think about the intent of foundations, are they being started to actually benefit the public? Are are wealthy, the wealthy 1% or whoever corporations starting these foundations just for the sake of having a tax break. And so that that, uh, I rs minimum payout of 5% That rule was put in place to force foundations that actually begin making grants. And so you know, So it is sort of, ah, the other thing to explore if you are with a 95% that is not leaving the doors. Um, if the intention is really to do good and communities, we have to look at how that 95% is then being invested too generate more money for future grantmaking. And the truth there is that the majority of those funds are tied up and harmful and instructed extractive industries that are counterintuitive to the mission of foundation.

[00:20:14.59] spk_3:
Yes, you make the point often, uh, that often right, those investments are in our in industries that are hurting the very populations that the foundation is explicitly trying to help through. It’s through its mission, and in fact, funding. Um, the, uh there’s something else that there’s your estimate, Thea. The way the money is. All right. Well, we’ll come back to it if I think of it. Um, there’s

[00:20:14.96] spk_1:
there’s a lot

[00:20:31.41] spk_3:
that organizations congee gained by hiring people of color. Indigenous people. What? Ah, and very few. Your rare exception. Um, working in found eight doing foundation work. What’s the make explicit? Those, uh, those advantages.

[00:20:57.22] spk_4:
Sure. So you’re right. I’m absolutely, um, exception. I think when I started in philanthropy, I was one of 10 Native Americans that I could find. We kind of found each other. What year was that? This was in 2005. That’s along. And we are now. Ah, there’s about 25 of us now. The last time I counted. So

[00:20:57.65] spk_1:
yeah,

[00:20:57.85] spk_4:
there’s there’s, you know, an amazing opportunity for foundations. And I think more more foundations are understanding to bring folks in 22 foundations that have lived experience

[00:21:10.23] spk_1:
and not only

[00:21:10.59] spk_3:
foundations but non profits. NGOs doing the groundwork, absolutely foundations of the funders on Dove course. Some foundations are now actually doing their own groundwork. We’re seeing that emerging, but But for the nonprofits doing the day to day work A CZ well represent the communities that you’re

[00:21:25.93] spk_4:
absolutely. It kind of makes sense right and felt, You know, it’s funny because some foundations actually require that of non profits. They ask about the diversity of their staff on their board, but they themselves have no type of, you know, values around diversity of their staffs. But you’re you know, the point is that for sure that any non profit our foundation, too tohave folks that work there, who have authentic accountability to community and understand and have been impacted by the issues that you’re trying to solve is going to bring an awareness. And, um, you know about the problem in a different way is gonna create some proximity that I think is gonna just inform strategies that that makes sense. And I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve been in strategic planning processes on board meetings where decisions were being made and always carry my mother, my family with me, you know, in spirit, into the room. And I hear these decisions are these conversations, and I’m thinking like, Oh, my God, like you know, this, you know, this this would not in any way help my mother mar my family that’s still living in poverty. Decisionmakers disconnected. There’s such a disconnect. Yeah,

[00:22:58.01] spk_3:
yeah. Um, and ah, I I thought of what I was gonna ask you about. Just comment on the foundation wise, we do see some foundation saying that they’re gonna spend down their assets. Um, I wouldn’t say it’s, ah, needle moving. But you do hear that from time to time that there’s a foundation is committed now to spending its its assets down. Um, was Paul Allen was it? Ah, not pull out the Microsoft. Uh, I think the Microsoft founder co founder who recently died, I think his foundation was Paul Allen. Okay, um, I was thinking of Steve Allen to come. You’ll come. That’s why I thought No, it wasn’t him, but was Paul Allen. I think his foundation’s one, But

[00:23:17.21] spk_1:
there are some. So we do

[00:23:20.24] spk_3:
hear some glimmers. Ah, but you say in the book a few times, people, we need to move the needle.

[00:23:24.27] spk_4:
Yeah, I think I mean, I think deciding to spend down is ah is very progressive way of thinking about it. There’s so much need now if we actually release the funds or

[00:23:34.56] spk_1:
even if

[00:24:22.80] spk_4:
you don’t want to spend down, you can make a decision to pay out more. Um, there there’s a lot of amazing work happening. Um, right now that is so under resource that if we could support and get behind investing money in these various movements and the’s in communities of color which are so marginalized by philanthropy, you know, uh, the 5% that is being invested only 7 to 8% of those dollars are being invested in communities of color. Yeah, that would make a big difference. And so I think, you know, I think it’s a conversation that the boards the foundation should think about. What is the value of you know why? Why do we want to stay in perpetuity? Like, what is that about a family legacy? Is that really about making a difference in the world? Because in some ways, it feels I can see that has been a very selfish type of, you know, um, way of thinking.

[00:24:36.81] spk_3:
If this was CNN right now, I would play a video of you, but I don’t I don’t have that. But in your in your times have to work on that. A talking alternative we need. We need video capture and screens and everything in your video in your interview with David Bernstein, New York Times. Uh, you said by not investing mawr in communities of color, philanthropy, venture capital impact investing in finance are missing out on rich opportunities to learn about solutions.

[00:24:54.05] spk_1:
Yeah.

[00:25:49.89] spk_4:
You know, I think that I think of, you know, people of color indigenous folks as being the canaries in the coal mine sometimes when when policies fail or systems fail. Um, we hurt the hardest. And, uh, but there’s just something so magical about him. And since a private I have about my community because we’re so resilient, like, regardless of, um, you know, all of the trauma of the colonization the, um, you know, genocide, stolen land, we still remain intact as a people. And so there’s there’s gotta be something magical about that resilience that I would if I weren’t native. I will be interested to know, Like what? When you think about sustainability, you know, we have a corner on sustainability. Indigenous peoples around the world are on the front lines of saving this planet on, you know, you know, really fighting for environmental protections there. There’s so much wisdom. And you know often what foundations roll out new theories of change. There are changes, are see strategies. Or there’s a new model or theory theory of change that comes up. And I’m like, Wow, we’ve been doing that are in our communities for years. If someone would have asked us, you know, maybe we can get there faster.

[00:26:08.00] spk_3:
Is there still a Lumbee community in Robson Robson County?

[00:26:11.69] spk_4:
Yes, there are. There are about 60,000 enroll members and a Lumbee tribe. The bulk of our community is still in Robertson County.

[00:26:23.86] spk_3:
Okay, Now have in North Carolina driver’s license. Well, that will get me in. Can I be in a number?

[00:26:25.25] spk_4:
You know, we were very inclusive. We we’ll take will adopt you as honorary brother, but you have to have a little bit more documentation. T officially enrolled.

[00:26:34.75] spk_1:
That’s a stretch

[00:26:35.59] spk_3:
for an Italian American with North Carolina license plate on driver’s license. All right, um,

[00:26:42.91] spk_1:
you Ah, you talk about,

[00:27:23.48] spk_3:
um you know, I guess. I mean, we’re skirting around these things. Make it explicit the power imbalance. You know that minorities are seeking it and mostly middle aged white guys are are doling it out. Ah, you know, piecemeal. Um, the the imbalance. You know, the grant, even the even the word, you know, the granting right. It’s like some, uh, some holy orders has has bestowed upon you something that’s ah, gift. When, uh, your your belief is that your thesis in the book is that it’s It’s it’s a It’s a right equally held by all.

[00:27:27.54] spk_4:
Yet, you know, I think power and money a lot of a lot of this does come down to power and ownership were talking in the nonprofit sector right now, a lot about equity, right and equity is very different from diversity and inclusion. To me, equity really is all about shifting power, and we often think about that from lens of equality. So we’re gonna have to sing power, which is a good thing. But to really achieve equity, it’s gonna actually require that some folks who have had power for a long amount of time give up more power, take a back seat.

[00:28:02.24] spk_3:
So that’s not gonna happen,

[00:28:03.24] spk_1:
you know, that’s that’s highly unlikely.

[00:28:06.11] spk_3:
Like infant is really small. Unlikely.

[00:28:15.58] spk_4:
You know, it’s a hard thing for people thio to think about it, especially if you have. If you’ve been privileged for so long, equity might actually feel like oppression for you, right? Because it’s like, you know, well, I’m I have less than I’ve had So, um, but, you know, we II want to think about this abundance mind frame. There’s enough. There’s enough resource is enough power to go around. We just have to work together to make sure that we are privileging. There’s who have not been privileged by that.

[00:28:41.80] spk_3:
So I love that you. You approach it from a position of abundance and not and not scarcity. We’re taking a break.

[00:28:42.67] spk_2:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software

[00:28:45.74] spk_1:
in the new

[00:30:19.28] spk_2:
year Might you need accounting software? Cougar Mountain will help you organize your numbers. It’s designed from the bottom up for nonprofits. It’s built for you. Their customer service is excellent, so they’ll take care of you and they have a free 60 day trial. You get that on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Martin. Now, time for Tony’s Take two four must have to start your planned giving in 2020 um, the video at tony-martignetti dot com has four things that you need to have in place for you to kick off. Planned giving in 2020. I’ll be more than happy to give you one right here and then for the video for the other three. You got to go to the video. Um, you have to be at least five years old. People have to be confident that your organization is going to live longer than them because they’re gonna be including you in their estate plan. Most likely there will. And they need to know that you’re gonna survive them so that there could be a gift for your organization when they die. So in order to have that confidence or for your donors to feel that confidence about your longevity, I like to see at least five years of history in the organization and for the other three, Um, check the video, and that is at tony-martignetti. Dotcom four must have to start your plan giving in 2020. That is Tony’s Take two. Now back to de colonizing wealth. Our first entry in the innovators. Siri’s.

[00:30:25.90] spk_3:
Now I wanna go back to Edgar Villanueva. Edgar Villanueva.

[00:30:30.47] spk_1:
See, I thought

[00:30:31.29] spk_3:
he would pronounce his name. Edgar and I was wrong. And But that’s that’s why I said Edgar.

[00:30:38.00] spk_1:
But it’s Edgar Edgar Edgar Villanueva and de colonizing

[00:30:40.03] spk_3:
wealth. Welcome back, you two go for

[00:30:42.08] spk_4:
Thanks for having me. Okay?

[00:30:43.29] spk_1:
Just will be here. Yes. Yeah. You haven’t done anything that

[00:30:46.79] spk_3:
would lead me to shut your mic off. Um, it hasn’t happened. I’ve threatened, but it hasn’t happened.

[00:30:51.74] spk_1:
So let’s let’s start getting ah positive, Okay.

[00:31:03.37] spk_3:
You know, the second, roughly the second half of your book is seven steps to healing. Um, and, uh, I thought you came up, like five short. I mean that we have only 12 status if

[00:31:08.21] spk_1:
you want to. If you want to share power, you’re gonna have to

[00:31:16.07] spk_3:
have you got to step it up with 12 steps or or even 15. You have more than the colonizer, but but

[00:31:16.83] spk_1:
the seven steps are in themselves. They’re pretty radical.

[00:31:30.80] spk_4:
Yeah. You know, it’s funny because I did have some resistance to having seven steps, right? Because it makes it seem like there’s Ah, there’s ah, quick and easy fix. If I just do these seven things, then we’re done with this, and we could move on

[00:31:35.14] spk_3:
is a prime number. Got that event right? That’s that’s I don’t know why.

[00:31:40.12] spk_4:
So, you know, But I did need to simplify the process in some ways just to help us get our minds around, you know? Ah, process that we can begin. But there is no ah, linear way are quick way to to solve all of these problems or two to undo what has been done. But there are ways to to to move forward and the steps to healing for me where are

[00:32:04.50] spk_3:
lets them out for us. Just list all seven and then we’ll talk about

[00:32:07.26] spk_4:
I’m sure. So they’re grieve. Apologize. Listen, relate, represent, invest and repair.

[00:32:15.64] spk_5:
Okay. Um,

[00:32:16.61] spk_1:
so you’ve been thinking

[00:32:17.17] spk_3:
about this for a while in this? Uh, I just did. I admire the I admire the thinking that goes into this.

[00:32:51.25] spk_4:
Yes. So some of it comes from my own personal experience when it kind of coming to terms and with the sector that I’m working in and the disconnection that I felt as a native person in the space and spending time in my community to, uh, just re ground myself in my values and, um and kind of acknowledging the wisdom that was in my body and in my community that I could bring to the space the other parts of it come from. I did lots of interviews with folks who work in nonprofits and in philanthropy, who were, I think of very four thinking people in the space activists who are leading movements around the country in to get to a place of you know what? What? What have you gone through personally to kind of reconcile some of this? Um And then, you know, a lot of this is also based on an indigenous, restorative justice model. So we hear a lot about restorative justice in the nonprofit sector. Now, this is, ah, method that’s used in schools. And I’m in the criminal justice system to help people deal with with things that have gone wrong to kind of get back on the right track. And so this is ah, model that has come from indigenous communities where we sit in circle with the offender with someone who has harmed us or done us wrong to get to a place of truth and reconciliation.

[00:33:56.08] spk_3:
I saw ah grieving Ah, you say everybody I mean, because of our inter relatedness, where we all need to grieve, including people of color indigenous, those who have been oppressed.

[00:34:48.73] spk_4:
Absolutely. We all need to grieve. We need to get to a place where we’re just very clear and honest about the history of this country. What has happened, what the idea of, you know, white supremacy, which is not a real thing, right? But why the idea of subscribing to that the harm in the loss that has calls for people of color but also white people? And, you know, I think that’s well. It’s pretty clear the trauma and the harm that has been calls in communes of color. It’s not so clear we don’t talk about it very much. The loss that Ah, that colonization and the idea of white supremacy has actually calls in white communities. But it’s, ah, it is. There is a loss there. I talk about it in the book, um, of the idea that white people came from from communities where they had cultures and tribal ways of of interacting in many cases, languages and things that were given up in order to assimilate to this idea of being American. And I think now we’re seeing folks feeling a sense of loss about that. That’s why if you see these commercials for these DNA tests are so popular right now because everyone wants to kind of remember where they’re from and it feel connected to that in some way.

[00:35:21.33] spk_3:
Um and, um, the ah, the thing you talk about two is, uh, the orphans orphans. You say that? Ah, those of us who are descendants of of the of the settlers you call us orphans? How’s that?

[00:36:55.80] spk_4:
I call them orphans. This is a term Moberg from some research that has been done on whiteness. And it is it’s kind of speaking to this idea of loss again, sort of giving up the culture that maybe from from from the home country, from where folks settlers came from, given up. There’s those ways of being an interactive in community to subscribe thio this individualistic way of being in America. And so with that, there’s been a lost of sort of that that mother country for lots of white folks and a loss of identity because although, you know I’m not anti American, let me be very clear about that This is the greatest country in the world. I’m very proud, TB, a citizen of this country. But there is something about leaving behind and not remembering where you originated from in order to adopt sort of this new culture here, um, you know, and and and not, um, that that makes you feel sort of like an orphan. If you’re not, you have no connection to where your green appearance or from, or the language. They spoke with the culture they have. Um, and I feel that that’s a loss for many white communities, that is actually a feeling that is shared with communities of color on. And if we recognize that loss in that trauma that we have in common, it opens doors for a different type of conversation about race. You

[00:36:56.09] spk_1:
said a few

[00:36:56.41] spk_3:
minutes ago that white supremacy is not a riel. Not really. All right,

[00:37:00.09] spk_6:
Well,

[00:37:05.06] spk_3:
why why do you say that? Well, I mean, there’s a white supremacist movement, but how are you thinking about it that you say it’s not really

[00:37:07.87] spk_4:
Well Well, the idea that that ah, you know, a certain group of people white people are superior because of the pigment of their skin is not a real thing, right? So this wasn’t on ideology that was created. Um, in order, Thio be able to have the types of oppressive movements and systems and policies that have been put in place for many years. And so it is a mindset that has been, you know, an idea that is not really, but we have built systems and societal norms around that, you know, growing up, I was taught that, you know, are sort of the default for me was whiteness was was better. And so if I were to behave or address or act, I’m in a certain way that appeared to be more white than that was gonna be, ah, better thing for me. And so we know that the idea white supremacy is you know, the idea of it is not really, but they’re very real implications and for how we have adopted that belief.

[00:38:08.65] spk_3:
All right, Um and you’re you also encourage non profits and teams toe have ah, grieving space we’re talking about. We’re talking about grieve. We have about a minute before break, but and then we’ll move on with the seven steps. But what’s a grieving space in an office.

[00:38:23.18] spk_4:
Yes. So you know, these these steps are personal, but it can be applied in organizational setting. And so I think, especially those of us working in the non profit, where we’re supporting communities, we need tohave space. Space is in our in our our work live to be able to talk about bad things that have happened and to grieve that into Philly motion to be human about it. And so, you know, I share some research in the book and some antidotes of folks who have have done that and the researchers that there it’s actually leads to a much more productive workplace toe have moments where we stopped the work to actually grieve and acknowledge the events are happening. You know, in our communities,

[00:39:06.61] spk_3:
the book is de colonizing wealth. Just just just get the book because we can only scratched the surface of it here in an hour. But de colonizing wealth dot com That’s where you go. So I gotta take this break.

[00:39:34.75] spk_1:
Tell us, Start with the video at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant porting. You talk to them, have them

[00:39:36.36] spk_3:
watch the video and if they switch, you are going to get that long stream of passive revenue from the fees they pay.

[00:39:44.49] spk_1:
Tony, that m a

[00:39:53.06] spk_3:
slash now back to Edgar Edgar Villanueva. See, I practiced saying Edgard because I just assumed on. I thought, now I’m sure he uses Edgar, just

[00:39:57.42] spk_4:
like editor Allan Poe.

[00:39:58.44] spk_1:
Yeah, I know, I know. I understand. That’s the, uh, uh, your name

[00:40:11.56] spk_3:
your Taliban ass anyway, And I I, uh I assumed we know what makes you know what happens when you make assume, make an ass of you and me, uh, so Okay,

[00:40:15.26] spk_5:
uh, Edgar, um, I

[00:40:15.37] spk_1:
like the idea

[00:40:30.21] spk_3:
of the grieving space. You know, acknowledge, you know, everything doesn’t go well all the time. It’s impossible. No organization succeeds. 100% nothing. So give yourselves time and space to talk about it, acknowledge it, learn from it and and move on rather than it being some cloud over the organization that everybody’s afraid to talk about or something. You know, it’s how oppressive is that?

[00:40:38.83] spk_4:
Very oppressive. And in philanthropy is, especially because we were sort of carrying around the secrets of like, how this wealth was a master secrets that were then these families that you know, many people feel bad about. And so we just need to kind of, you know, beat, be truthful and honest about the history and spend time grieving over that so that we can move forward. As she said.

[00:41:24.56] spk_3:
And that was the next step in terms of, uh, your next step apologizing. Recognizing, which includes recognizing the source of the foundation money you worked for the Reynolds Kate be Is it Kate Pickett, Be Reynolds Foundation, Reynolds Tobacco, North Carolina. You know that money was raised on the backs of slaves. Um, I’m not gonna ask you if the KGB Reynolds Foundation acknowledges that, but that’s an example of what we talked about in the in the steppe, apologizing.

[00:41:31.91] spk_4:
Absolutely. There was. There was no acknowledgment of that. And, uh, chapter one of the book is called My Arrival on the Plantation because our foundation offices were literally on the former as stay or plantation of R. J. Reynolds and so really, literally and metaphorically, I was I was working there, but no, there was. There’s no acknowledgment of that. And I think you see that, you know, in North Carolina recently, the chancellor of you of the University of North Carolina acknowledged that the history of slaves and in building that university and that some of the buildings there are named after a former slave owners. What most people of color want is just to be seen and heard and for folks to make that recognition.

[00:42:28.10] spk_3:
Yeah, acknowledge and maybe moved to apology for perhaps that didn’t Johns Hopkins University do something similar? That that they had their founders were, uh, Johns Hopkins. Their founders were slave owners,

[00:42:30.73] spk_4:
I think. Georgetown University,

[00:42:34.47] spk_3:
Georgetown. Sorry. Thank you. Okay, Georgetown, they were

[00:42:35.48] spk_1:
pretty, right? There were priests,

[00:42:37.76] spk_3:
priest founders that were slave owners.

[00:42:41.71] spk_4:
That’s right. Actually, no. Ah, friend of mine who lives in New Orleans is ah, black woman who is a descendant, um, and was called to Georgetown to share about her family’s history. And it was a beautiful moment, they said, and community together, talking about the history, talk, acknowledging the contributions of her ancestors. And there’s a big write up in the paper. And, you know, this has been a very ah healing, I think Ford, the university, and but also front for my friend Karen, who is now having that You know that recognition that the contributions of her ancestors.

[00:43:25.68] spk_3:
You talk a good bit about the reconciliation process in South Africa. Um, Canada, You

[00:43:26.14] spk_1:
got to get the book way. Can’t. Can’t tell all

[00:43:28.56] spk_3:
these stories. I mean, I know what listeners I know. I know you love stories as much as I do, but

[00:43:32.32] spk_1:
there’s not enough time to just get the damn book.

[00:43:34.26] spk_3:
Just goto de colonizing both dot com For Pete’s sake. You

[00:43:41.40] spk_1:
go right now. If you’re listening Live, Where are you? But Pepsi? Schenectady, Uh, Nottingham, Maryland. Just go to

[00:43:47.80] spk_3:
de colonizing wealth dot com. Um, okay. Listening. You talk about mm. Empathic and generative listening.

[00:45:07.26] spk_4:
Right. So, you know, often when we when we moved to a process like this, we feel bad. We’ve apologized. Um, the default, sort of like dominant culture way of being is like, Okay, I’m done with that. I’m going to move forward. And so But before you move for an act, you just need to Paul’s toe, actually. Listen, tony, listen and learn. So thio for nonprofits, You know, I ran a non profit. I’ve worked in flame 34 14 years. When I asked non profits, What is the number one thing that you wish funders would do differently. The response is always I just wish they would listen because there’s something about having resource is money, privilege and power. When we enter the room, there’s a power dynamic where we automatically feel that we can control the air space and we have an agenda. And on the non profit, they’re gonna be responsive to what we want. And you know that often is the case. But the best way to really build a relationship with folks where there is ah difference in power and privileges is to actually stop and listen. Put aside your own assumptions and try as best you can to put yourself in their shoes to understand their experience. And their history is just gonna make you a better person. I feel like listening is a human right. We all want to be. We all deserve to be heard. And so that is just something that we have to keep reminding folks who have privilege is thio two to stop at times toe also, Listeninto let others be hard.

[00:45:57.50] spk_3:
Yeah, put aside the white savior complex. Absolutely. Yeah, listening. We talked about we talked about that a lot on the show in terms of donors. Andi, I know you’re next. You’re next step is relating versus being transactional. And that’s that’s That’s the beginning of a relationship, is you said, you know, listening. Genuine hearing, um, to whether it’s donors or potential potential grantees. Um, there there’s a lot to be learned. Goes back to the value of bringing, representing the communities that you’re that you’re serving. Um, Okay. So relation You want us to Ah, you want to relate?

[00:46:01.93] spk_1:
Let me ask

[00:46:05.23] spk_3:
you. Ah, you read, um, how to win friends and influence. People say dozens of times. Doesn’t I have trouble reading a dozen pages in a book? You’ve read one book dozens of times. Uh, what do you take away time after reading? Ah, Dale Carnegie’s book. Dozens of times.

[00:46:19.68] spk_4:
Well, you know, I still have an original copy from that. I, um I stole from the library of Ah. My mom was a domestic worker and she was carrying for ah, frail, elder elderly man handle this vast library. So ended up with this little book that you

[00:46:34.86] spk_3:
stole from an infirm.

[00:46:36.32] spk_4:
I believe. You know, I feel terrible about book Haunts me to this day. So this is a public.

[00:46:42.17] spk_1:
Didn’t even think to leave, like, 20 bucks or something on the table and have

[00:47:09.42] spk_4:
it if I had it at that. All right, Um, so hopefully this is my my way of giving back. This is my reparations for for that that wrong. But, you know, and the wouldn’t take away from me in that book. Ah, is ah is really kind of connected to relating and listening. Um, is when you’re when you’re talking to folks. People just really want to be heard. So mostly you should listen. Um, and if you actually just listen more than talk people going to think that you’re a great friend like, Well, Edgar, that was such a nice time with you. But even if I did

[00:47:22.68] spk_1:
it right, and so yeah,

[00:47:23.33] spk_4:
it’s really about listening and letting others feel that they’re important because they are, um, you know, we I think people just feel so invisible these days that just by giving people that moment of feeling hurt and connecting with something that they’re interested in, it’s just gonna really take you much further and building a relationship

[00:47:45.83] spk_3:
and stop the transactional, the transactional thinking You

[00:47:46.00] spk_1:
have you have an

[00:47:50.78] spk_3:
example of? Ah, um a ah, like building design. Like office design kitchens. You’d love to see a kitchen in the center of offices.

[00:48:08.34] spk_4:
Yeah, you know, so sort of like these ideas of, like, the colonizing virus infects every aspect of our community. So, yes, even the way buildings were designed, especially buildings that are financial institutions. Think about what banks look like when you walk in and with with all the marble and, you know, ground hard edges. Absolutely. Foundation offices where you have to go through five levels of security to get in as if we’re as if the millions of dollars were in the office, right? And so we just threw even how we design our offices. And, um, you know, the way they appear can be super intimidating for folks who are coming in who need access to resources.

[00:48:40.37] spk_3:
Take a break. When we come back, we’re gonna talk about organizational designed to instead of just office designed

[00:49:34.86] spk_2:
time for our last break in the new year. Might you want to build relationships with journalists who matter to you so that when news breaks and you want to be part of the public conversation you’ve got your best shot turn to is former journalists, including for the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know how to build relationships with journalists, especially in the non profit space and other media, of course. Bloggers. Um uh, what were the other examples of media besides generals? Um, of course, any of the, uh, webinars that you could your expertise could be portrayed in webinars seminars, conferences. They can build those relationships. That’s how you get great coverage when it matters. They’re at turn hyphen to dot ceo. We’ve got butt loads, more time for de colonizing wealth.

[00:49:38.62] spk_3:
Now, we’ve got several more minutes for de colonizing wealth again. Just go to de colonizing both dotcom get the thing, get the book. Um, in terms of designing organizations ah, more egalitarian. You’d like to see

[00:49:52.48] spk_4:
absolutely so one of the steps the book is represent. And would

[00:49:56.54] spk_1:
you look

[00:49:56.95] spk_4:
at the, uh, the demographics of the nonprofit sector and especially in foundations that part this sector? We still have a long ways to go with diversity, particularly when you look at the board of directors and the CEO positions. Folks who really hold power organizations. So

[00:50:14.18] spk_1:
what are

[00:50:25.38] spk_4:
the one of the ideas that I put forth in the book is that foundations should have a requirement that at least 51% or at least 50% of their boards to reflect the communities they serve. This would drastically change what you know, shake up what the seats on the bus look like. But this isn’t this far from what is required of many nonprofits. Funders actually are requiring this of their non profit that their funding, Um, and many cover organizations that receive government funding federal funding have these types of requirements that the folks who sit on the boards must be folks who are benefiting from the service’s of theirs. Non profits

[00:50:53.40] spk_3:
again be representative. Absolutely. Yeah, that’s a That’s a stretch. 51%.

[00:50:58.48] spk_4:
It’s a stretch. It’s a stretch. But, you know, um, the conversation has has been zero about it. So I figured, you know, if we put something a bold vision out there to help us imagine what’s possible, maybe we’ll get a little bit further down the road.

[00:51:12.01] spk_1:
And there are some

[00:51:12.47] spk_3:
examples use like the Novo Foundation in the book. They have, ah, women’s building that they’re that they’re repurposing some old warehouse or something. Turning tow this building and and the decisions being made by women who are gonna be using the building.

[00:51:56.45] spk_4:
Absolutely. There’s some great examples of foundations and funds that are really putting these values into practice in their work. Novo is a foundation. I really appreciate Jennifer and Peter Buffett, the founders of Doesn’t over foundation wrote the Ford to my book. And they are folks that you if you get to know them, you can see that they have done this work. Um, and it shows up in how they give. They are a foundation that absolutely sits in community and listens Thio folks who are impacted by especially women and girls, which is the issue they really care about. And they fund in a way that is responsive to what they really need versus what the foundation’s agenda might be.

[00:52:07.49] spk_1:
Is it no vote that funds

[00:52:08.62] spk_3:
for five years or seven years guaranteed you cite this in the book, no matter how much trouble you’re having in year 123 you’re going to be funded for five or seven years for their initial commitment,

[00:52:25.53] spk_4:
right? Right. And that type of long term commitment is Ah, you know something that that is the best type of funding. You know, folks can be you can focus on building a relationship versus oh, I’ve got to meet these certain objectives so I can keep getting this money year after year. And so to be relieved of that, that pressure of thinking about where am I gonna you know how I’m gonna pay the salaries next year really allows folks have the freedom to think about the actual work that they’re doing the communities

[00:53:00.35] spk_3:
and planning and comm plans that are being one only one or two years. Um, s so we kind of mish mash together, you know, relating and representing, um, investing.

[00:53:33.04] spk_4:
So investing is really a call to philanthropy. To think about using all of its resource is for, um, for the public. Good, right. And so we are not going to be a sector that achieves equity that that is really moving the needle on issues. If we’re supporting with, the 5% are right hand. Really good work. You know, Michigan, late at work. But in our left hand, we are investing 95% of our resource is in industries and causes that are extractive that are, you know, really cancelling out the positive of our resource is so, you know, they’re great foundations like the Nathan Cummings Foundation, for example, who just recently declared that 100% of their assets, their entire corpus, is going to be used and support their mission.

[00:53:51.22] spk_3:
Yeah, on again, other examples in the book and, uh, we just have about a minute or so before we have to wrap up, Actually, um, so talk about your final step, which is

[00:54:29.31] spk_4:
the final step is repair all of us who were philanthropist or givers. And as we’re getting close to the end of this year, we’re all philanthropists. I’m supporting non profits in our communities. Think about how we can use money as medicine. How can we give in a way that is helping to repair the harm that has been done by colonization and in this country. And so think about looking your personal portfolio. Are you giving to at least one organization of color to support grassroots leadership? So reach across support folks who may not look like you invest in ways that are helping to unite us versus thinking about some of the traditional ways of giving that have not been, you know, along this line of thinking are exercising these types of values.

[00:54:47.44] spk_3:
Okay, so I’ll give you last 30 seconds, Uh, in the way that the way I learned that natives are the original philanthropists was by What? You what? You talk about your mom?

[00:54:57.70] spk_4:
Yes. So, you know, I think a lot of giving when we look at giving in this country the biggest philanthropy hours, philanthropist or fix, we’re giving the most highest percentage of their incomes. Incomes are actually poor people. And so I do you talk about my mom in the book who, um, was, uh, you know, is actually very low income. And but yet she gave to our community and how to run a ministry out of our church to support Children.

[00:55:22.40] spk_1:
Yes, the bus ministry, the bus ministry

[00:55:24.24] spk_3:
just got got to get the book. You got to read

[00:55:25.63] spk_4:
the last ministry. And so is the giving of time. Treasure and talent not just resource is. And so all of us who are caring for our communities and ways that are, um, you know, through love is we’re all philanthropists.

[00:55:37.74] spk_3:
Get the book. Go to de colonizing wealth dot com. Edgar Villanueva Thank you so much. Thank you

[00:55:42.24] spk_4:
for having me on tony.

[00:55:43.11] spk_2:
Real pleasure. Next week. Personalized Philanthropy With Steve Myers. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com But

[00:55:58.88] spk_1:
Coco Mat in

[00:55:59.36] spk_2:
Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Ah, creative producers

[00:56:35.02] spk_1:
Claire Meyer off Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for November 30, 2018: Decolonizing Wealth

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My Guest:

Edgar Villanueva: Decolonizing Wealth
That’s the new book by Edgar Villanueva. His thesis: The solutions to the damage and trauma caused by American capitalism—including philanthropy—can be gleaned from the values and wisdom of our nation’s original people. He’s a Native American working in philanthropy. Let’s talk to him and find out what he’s thinking.

 

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into hypo gargle aziz asia if you tickle to me with the idea that you missed today’s show and there’s a footnote. Number one on hyper gargle ist asia d colonizing wealth. That’s the new book by edgar villanueva. His thesis. The solutions to the damage and trauma caused by american capitalism, including philanthropy, can be gleaned from the values and wisdom of our nation’s original people. He’s a native american working in philanthropy. We’ll talk to him and find out what he’s thinking. Tony steak too. No video responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant by wagner. Cps guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com bye. Tell us, tony credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. Npr to four four four nine nine nine it’s my great pleasure to welcome to the studio edgar villanueva. He’s a nationally recognized expert on social justice philanthropy. He chairs the board of native americans in philanthropy and is a board member of the andress family fund, working to improve outcomes for vulnerable youth. He’s an instructor with the grantmaking school at grand valley state university and serves as vice president of programs and advocacy at the shot foundation for public education. He’s held leadership roles that kate be reynolds charitable trust in north carolina and marguerite kissy foundation in seattle. Edgar is an enrolled member of the lumbee tribe of north carolina. You’ll find him at d colonizing wealth dot com and at villanueva edgar and welcome to studio. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to be here. Congratulations on the book. Thank you. Which just came out last month was october, october sixteenth. Yes, all right. And you just had a very nice interview with the new york times. Yes. Congratulations on that prep prep prep you for non-profit radio. Right? Right. I’m ready. All your all your media appearances to date have brought you to this moment. Right. So that’s all culminated here. I promised listeners. Footnote one footnote one. Teo. Hyper guard. Alice the asia, of course, anybody listens to show knows that i opened with something funny like that, a disease, every single show. But in edgar’s book, he mentions hyper gargle ist asia. So this is the first time over four hundred shows that thea, that the guest unknowingly has provided the opening disease state. So thank you very much. You don’t know what we do that every single show? Um no, you don’t know that. I didn’t know that i’m not listening to non-profit video. It’s it’s your life. All right. Um, okay. D colonizing wealth. You’re you’re you’re a bit of a troublemaker. A little bit. Yeah, you’re raising some eyebrows. No one told me yesterday that i was the colin kaepernick of philanthropy, which i was like, i haven’t thought about it that way, but that’s not all so bad getting closer to the mike so people can hear you, you know, just get not almost intimate with it. Um, i used to call myself the charlie rose of charities until he blew that gig for me and how he ruined that. I can’t use that any longer because you talk about colonizer virus and exploitation and division like these are bad things. Yes, they are bad. Okay. What? Ah, what is the what? What’s the colonizer virus? Why do we need to d colonized so many of us who work in philanthropy or even the nonprofit sector? You know, i have this firewall that were completely disconnected from wall street or from capitalism, or are some of those processes in systems in our country that may have a negative connotation for the good doers. But in philanthropy, we are not very far, you know, disconnected from corporate america. Most of this wealth was made by corporations and businesses, sometimes not in the best ways. Not in the back of a lot of indigenous and colored people. Yeah. When you look at the history of the accumulation of wealth in this country, it’s steeped in trauma, right? And so legacy wealth that has been inherited for generations. Now folks may not even know the origin of their family’s wealth. But you know, when we look back and that we see in general how wealth was accumulated, you know, especially i’m from the south, north carolina. We’ll talk about that. They’re absolutely was. A legacy of slavery is stolen lands that helped contribute to the mass of wealth. And you feel there are a lot of lessons we can learn from the values of native americans. Yeah, so, you know, we as a people talk about healing a lot. We have a lot of trauma that exist in our communities, you know, because colonization, as we often think about it, as something that happened five years ago in north carolina, especially where i’m from, we were the first point of contact. But colonization and the acts of separation and exploitation are still continuing present day. And so in my community, native communities across the country, even as recent as my grandparentsgeneration, kids were forcibly removed from their homes and put into boarding schools. And so we’re still we’re experiencing a lot of trauma as a result of these practices. But we are areas, a resilient people. And those who are closest to a lot of the problems that we’re trying to solve today as a society have a lot of answers and wisdom that we can bring to the table. You say that the natives are the original philanthropists? Yes. Now you’re a member of the lumbee tribe north carolina. That’s right. Robertson county, north carolina, which which is not too far from where i own. I owned a home in pinehurst, which is a little north and west, i think of of robertson county lumber. So the lumbee tribe, i assume the lumber river is named for the lundy’s and lumberton the town that’s right name for lundy’s right so lumpy is were actually named after the lumber river fr african first yeah the river came first and so certainly the river came from i think the name of the river came right river’s been there much longer okay yes so we’re you know hodgepodge of historical tribes that were in coastal north carolina that i came together to form the lumpy try and named ourselves after that river um and we’re going to comeback teo native americans as the original philanthropists but that that struck me a lot i think you you say you say that the end of the at the end of books right where i caught it i’m whichever like a minute a half or so before the break so just we’re introducing this we got playing time together wealth you say divides us controls us, exploits us. What’s that about? So the accumulation of wealth. So money in itself is neutral. Wealth in itself, i say is is neutral. But it’s the way that wealth has been accumulated in this country that has calls tarm when we value when we, you know, fear and were motivated by greed, thie acts that can result as as a result of that, to exploit the land and to exploit people are or what? That’s what has calls the harmon itself. So the case that i’m going to make in this but that i’m making in this book, is that wealth money can actually be used for the good. If it historically has been used as a negative thing that has calls trauma, we can flip that to use it for something that could actually help repair the harm that has been done. You’ve got seven sixteenth steps to that second half your book. All right, we’ll take our first break pursuant. They’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take the secrets from the fastest growing startups and apply those methods and practices to your non-profit. It’s free as all the pursuant resources are you’re accustomed to this? You know this. You will find it on the listener landing page, which is where it’s always been. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please. Now back to don gani monisha. That is your indian name. Did i by any chance say that correctly? I think that’s correct. I’m a little shampoo with my ojibwe these days. You don’t know your tea boy. That sounds, but that is your indian name. Ah, leading bird. Tell the story of how you got that name. We’ll come backto. Don’t. We’ll come back to the exploitation and control. Don’t you think this is a good story? How you got that name? So my tribe, the lumbee tribal north carolina doesn’t have a tradition of naming. You are whatever your mom calls you. That’s your name, right? Your mom’s right. So but when i when i was working in north carolina and native communities, i went to a conference where there was a medicine man and someone the medicine man was meeting with folks who wanted time with with him to talk or have a session. And growing up in north carolina, my identity as a native has always been quite complicated. We didn’t have these types of practices in my home in raleigh, north carolina, and so, but i was very curious to meet with this medicine. Man and tio see what could happen from that encounter. And someone told me, if you’re if you’re really lucky when you meet with the medicine man, they might give us a spiritual name or a native name on dh. So i met with this guy in the marriott hotel in denver, colorado, where this this native health conference. So it was all ah, tell the story in the book is quite hilarious and in many ways let the end of our session where i was feeling excited about you know the conversation we had, but also a little confused and skeptical in some ways because i, you know, had such a colonized ways of thinking. He did offer me a native name. Naghani benesch a which means leading bird s o. I was very honored, and my first thought was, what kind of bird? Right, am i a little tweety bird or a my mighty eagle? Silicon, right? Birds are vest. So he explained to me that i was the type of bird that flies in a v formation on daz i when i left, i studied of these birds, and they’re the leading bird. I’m deleting glamarys leading burghdoff. I’m the bird that flies in the front of the v formation, which is the kind of leader that is often visible but really understands. It’s co dependents and interdependence on the other birds. And so if you watch birds flying in a v formation, it’s really like amazing natural, you know, national phenomenon. How, ah, how they communicate and fly together. The other thing that’s remarkable about the leading birds type of leadership is that it often will fly to the back of the pack and push another bird ford. So it’s not always the one that’s out front. And when i when i learned these characteristics, i just felt really i was really, really happy and content about this name because i do see that’s the type of leadership that i model in my everyday life. And i think it’s a type of leadership that’s really important for the nonprofit sector. You explain how the birds communicate, which i’ve always wondered. They’re they’re just close enough that they can feel the vibrations off each other and our micro movements. I think you say off each other, but they’re not so close that they’re going toe bump into each other and, you know, be injured. That’s how they and i guess they’re feeling the breeze off each other and sensing these micro movements of each other. So they’re that close, but not so close that they going to injured, right? Yes, sir, it’s very fascinating. It’s like a scientific, you know, gps built into their bodies. And the other thing i recently heard about these birds is that you don’t ever find one that dies alone. And so, you know, i want to learn research that a little bit more, but i think when they’re when someone is down, are you know, there’s an injury or whatever may happen they there’s there’s a certain way that they take care of each other. And so, you know, it just kind of speaks to our common humanity and our inter related, you know, being inter related exactly our interdependence. Now, this is a this is an indigenous, the belief that we are all related and that’s what it makes me think of the birds also working so closely together that they feel micro movements. But how? Explain this, this belief that we are each of one of us related to to eat all the other. Yeah, so there there is, ah, native belief, all my relations. That means you’re all of our suffering is mutual. All of our thriving is mutual. And, you know, we are we are interdependent. And so it’s a very different mindset or world view from sort of the american individualistic type of mindset we also have connected to that viewpoint is this idea of seven generations. So not only are we all related, you know, in this room right now and that we’re relatives on and we are related to the land and to the animals around us. But all of the things, all of the decisions and that we’re making today are going to impact future generations. So there’s an idea that i am someone’s ancestor. And so what a responsibility to move through the world in a way that is thinking that far ford about our our young people. And so these are concepts that were taught to me by my family, but also in recent years, this book gave me the opportunity to revisit and spend time with indigenous elders to remember these teachings and that, and to think about how to apply them in my work and you encourage us two each that that each one of us takes responsibility for a cz you said were thriving and suffering together. What i’m referring to is the each of us takes responsibility for the colonizer virus. Say more about that, yes. So you know, i think how are we all responsible? We’re all responsible because we’re all affected. I think some folks, when we you know, we learn about colonization and schools is something that seems pretty normal, right? We, we think of colonization and the colonizers as heroes, like the natural path of progress. Absolutely way. It’s learned right. We have holidays, you know, for for christopher columbus, for example. And so. But the realities are that colonization was something that was terrible, that resulted in genocide and all types of exploitation. And that type of history that we have in this country is something that we, as as the people, have not come to terms with. We actually we don’t tell the truth. We don’t face the truth. And so i think we’re still dealing with the consequences on dso. The dynamics of colonization which are to divide, to control, to exploit, to separate those dynamics. You know, i refer to them as the colonizing virus because they they’re still in our bodies as as a nation, they show up in our policies. Our systems reflect the colonizer virus and in our institutions, in the nonprofit sector and especially in philanthropy, where we are sitting on lots of money, privilege and power the least naturally to your point about latto them organizations. Absolutely. So. You know, i think the philanthropy, for example, can perpetuate, you know, the dynamics of colonization, because when you look at where this where this money came from and how we as a sector don’t face the realities of that truth when you look at asked the question of why this money was held back from public coffers that, you know, had it gone into the tax system, it would be supporting this safety in that vulnerable communities on. And when you look at who gets to allocate managing spend id, you see a very white, dominant kind of mindset happening because, for example, if we get into the numbers just a little bit, foundation said on eight hundred billion dollars of assets, that’s a lot of money that has been, you know, shelter from taxation. That’s money that would have gone into public education, health care, elder care, things that we need for the infrastructure of our communities. But that money has been put there with little to no accountability of private foundations are only required by the irs. Teo payout five percent of their assets. And so then, you know you’re looking at just a small percentage of money that was intended to be for the public. Good on ly. A small percentage is actually leaving the doors. There would be an invested in community. Let’s assume it’s i know there are a lot of foundations that use that five percent minimum as their maximum, so that zoho five percent of that would be forty billion dollars. So the counter is sabat. There’s forty billion dollars coming each year could be more. But let’s take the minimum just to be conservative, and you know, we’re trying to preserve this thiss foundation capital for perpetuity. So if you know if we if we spent in the next two years the eight hundred billion, then we wouldn’t have anything left for future. Just future. Years and other generations were tryingto way want to be around for in perpetuity? The foundations would say, right, right. And you know, i think i think there is a case to be made for saving some funds for a rainy day in the future. But the truth is that five percent when congress had acted that five percent rule, it actually began at six percent, i believe in nineteen seventy four and then in nineteen seventy six was lower to five percent. The reason that congress had to actually put this legislation forward is because foundations were not paying out any money. And so when you think about the intent of foundations, are they being started to actually benefit the public? Are our wealthy the wealthy one percent, or whoever corporations starting these foundations just for the sake of having a tax break? And so that that irs minimum pay all of five percent? That rule was put in place to force foundations that actually begin making grants and so you know, so it is sort of the other thing to explore if you are with the ninety five percent that is not leaving the doors. If the intention is really to do good and communities, we have to look at how that ninety five percent is then being invested to generate more money for future grantmaking. And the truth there is that the majority of those funds are tied up in harmful and extract extractive industries that our counter intuitive to the mission of foundation. You make the point often that often, right, those investments are in our industries that are hurting the vory populations that foundation is explicitly trying to help through. It’s through its mission and in fact, funding the something else that was asked about thea the way the money is. All right, well, we’ll come back to it if i think of it. there’s there’s a lot that organisations khun gained by hiring people of color indigenous people what on dh very few your rare exception working in found eight doing foundation what what’s the what make explicit that those uh those advantages sure so you’re right i’m absolutely on exception i think when i started in philanthropy i was one of ten native americans that i could find we kind of found each other in what year was that this was in two thousand five that’s along and we are now there’s about twenty five of us now the last time i counted so yeah there’s there’s you know an amazing opportunity for foundations and i think more more foundations are understanding to bring folks in to two foundations that have lived experience and not only foundations but non-profits now the ngos doing the ground work absolutely foundations of the funders on dove course some foundations are now actually doing their own groundwork we’re seeing that emerging but for the non-profits doing the day to day work a cz well represent the communities that you’re absolutely kind of makes sense right and felt you know it’s funny because some foundations actually require That of non-profits. They ask about the diversity of their staff on their board, but they themselves have no type of, you know, values around diversity of their staff. But you’re you know, the point is that for sure that any non-profit or foundation to have folks that work there who have authentic accountability to community and understand and have been impacted by the issues that you’re trying to solve is going to bring an awareness. And, you know, about the problem in a different way is going to create some proximity that i think is going to just inform strategies that make sense. And i can’t tell you the number of times i’ve been in strategic planning processes, on board meetings, where decisions were being made and always carry my mother my family with me, you know, in spirit into the room. And i hear these decisions are these conversations and i’m thinking like, oh, my god! Like, you know this, you know, this this would not in any way help my mother more or my family. That’s still living. Brovey decisionmakers disconnected. There’s such a disconnect. Yeah, yeah. Dahna and, ah, i i thought of what i was going to ask you about or just comment on the foundation wise. We do see some foundation saying that they’re going to spend down their assets. Hyre i wouldn’t say it’s needle moving, but you do hear that from time to time that there’s a foundation is committed now to spending its its assets down. You know, um, was paul allen, was it? Ah, not pull out the microsoft, i think. The microsoft founder co founder who recently died. I think his foundation was paul allen. Okay, i was thinking steve allen to come, but will come. That’s why i thought no, it wasn’t him, but was paul allen? I think his foundations one, but there are some. So we do here, some glimmers, but you say in the book a few times, people, we need to move the needle. Yeah, i think i mean, i think deciding to spend down is ah, is very progressive way of thinking about it. There’s so much need now, if we actually release the funds or even if you don’t want to spend down, you can make a decision to pay out more there. There’s a lot of amazing work happening right now. That is so under resource that if we could support and get behind investing money in these various movements and the’s in communities of color, which are so marginalized by philanthropy, you know the the five percent that is being invested, only seven to eight percent of those dollars are being invested in communities of color. Yeah, that would make a big difference. And so i think, you know, i think it’s a conversation that the boards of foundations should think about. What is the value of, you know why? Why do we want to stay in perpetuity like what is? Is that about a family legacy? Is that really about making a difference in the world? Because in some ways it feels i can see that as being a very selfish type of, you know, ah, way of thinking. If this was cnn right now, i would play a video of you. But i don’t i don’t have that. But in your in your times get to work on that talking alternative. We need we need video capture and screens and everything in your video. In your interview with david bernstein new york times, you said by not investing mawr in communities of color philanthropy, venture capital impact investing in finance are missing out on rich opportunities. Tto learn about solutions. Yeah, you know, i think that i think of, you know, people of color. Indigenous folks is being the canaries in the coal mine. Sometimes when when policies fail or systems fail, we hurt the hardest. And but there’s just something so magical about sense of private i have about my community because we’re so resilient, like regardless of, you know, all of the trauma, the colonization, the, you know, genocide, stolen land. We still remain intact as the people on dh. So there’s there’s gotta be something magical about that resilience that i would if i weren’t native. I will be interested to know. Like what? When you think about sustainability, you know we have a corner on sustainability. Indigenous peoples around the world are on the frontlines of saving this planet on, you know, you know, really fighting for environmental protections there. There’s so much wisdom and you know, often what foundations roll out new theories of change. There are changes, rc strategies, or there’s a new model or theory theory of change that comes up and i’m like, well, we’ve been doing that aren’t in our communities for years. If someone would have asked us, you know, maybe we can get there faster. Is there still a lumbee community in robson robson county? Yes, there are. There are about sixty thousand enrolled members in the lumpy tribe. The bulk of our community is still in robinson county. Okay, now i have a north carolina driver’s license. Well, that will get me in-kind being remember. You know, we were very inclusive. We we we’ll take it. We’ll adopt you as honorary brother, but you have to have a little bit more documentation. Shin ta. Officially enrolled. That’s a stretch for an italian american with just north carolina. License plate on driver’s licence. All right. You you talk about, you know, i guess, i mean, we’re skirting around these things. Make it explicit the power imbalance. You know that minorities are seeking it, and mostly middle aged white guys are are doling it out, you know, piecemeal. The the imbalance, you know, the grant, even the even the word. You know, the granting, right? It’s like some i was like, some holy orders has has bestowed upon you something that’s ah, gift. When your your belief is that your thesis in the book is that it’s it’s it’s a it’s a right, equally held by all. Yeah, you know, i think power in money. A lot of a lot of this does come down to power and ownership were talking in the nonprofit sector right now, a lot about equity, right? And equity is very different from diversity and inclusion. To me, equity really is all about shifting power, and we often think about that from linds of equality. So we’re going to have to sing power, which is a good thing. But to really achieve equity is going to actually require that some folks who have had power for a long amount of time give up more power, take a back seat. So that’s not gonna happen. You know that sze, highly unlikely, like infant is really small. Unlikely? You know, it is a hard thing for people, teo to think about it. Especially if you have. If you’ve been privileged for so long, equity might actually feel like oppression for you, right? Because it’s like, you know, well, i i have less than i’ve had, so but, you know, wi i i wantto think about this abundance, my frame. There’s enough. There’s enough resource is enough power to go around. We just have to tow work together too. You make sure that we are privileging there’s who have not been privileged by that. So i love that you you approach it from a position of abundance and not and not scarcity. We’re taking a break when you see piela. If you need help with your nine ninety, perhaps, or your books properly managed have you got your books? Are you thinking about a c p a change? Maybe in twenty nineteen, talk to the wagner partner. You know him? Yeah. Huge tomb. He’s been a guest. I’ve gotten to know him. I trust you. He’ll be honest about whether wagner cpas is going to be able to help you. Accounting wise place to get started. Weinger cpas dot com now for tony’s, take two. I didn’t do a video this week. I was so relaxed over the thanksgiving holiday, including the weekend, the four days. I just didn’t think of it. I mean, i’ve been doing weekly videos for i’m sure much longer than you’re interested in watching. It’s been years. I just do a weekly or, you know, maybe every other week. And i was so relaxed over the over the four days that a cz i’ve encouraged you to be, you know, take time for yourself while i was following her own advice. I just didn’t even think to do a video that week for this for this week. So i hope that you took time made time. You know, you have your not going to find this time. You have to make it. I hope you made time for yourself and you are as relaxed as i was. And you forgot to do something that you should have done, aunt. Hope you’d get in trouble for it. I’m not in trouble. It’s time for the live listener love. Ah, and where’s it going? Let’s let’s go abroad. Were in sao paulo, brazil, were in moscow. We’re in seoul. Ah, and we’re disconnected. You know that’s not fair. That’s not very nice. So cool. Live listener loved to brazil, russia and tio seoul, south korea, on your haserot. Um oh, i knew i knew brazil was brazil. I don’t have my cici. I’ll just have to say, listen, love to you. Love goes out and bringing in abroad. I mean domestic. Back into the states. Tampa, florida, new york, new york, seattle, nottingham, maryland. Cool nottingham. That’s a new one. Welcome, seattle. Welcome, schenectady. Of course. Sorry about that before, but pepsi upstate new york who lets a new yorkers checking in. And boston, massachusetts and wilmington, north carolina. All right. North carolina special live love teo, shout out to north carolina. Um, and the podcast pleasantries. The vast majority of our over thirteen thousand listeners each week. Thank you. Thank you for being with us. I don’t know. You might listen. A couple days later, you might listen. A month later, you might binge. Listen to all your podcast. A month later. Whenever you’re checking us out. Thank you for putting us in your podcast schedule. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners. Now i want to go back to ed gar villanueva. Edgar villanueva. See, i thought he would pronounce his name edgar and i was wrong. And but that’s that’s what i said, edgar. But it’s edgar weinger villanueva and de colonizing wealth. Welcome back, you two. Go for thanks for having me. Okay. Just will be here. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You haven’t done anything that would lead me to shut your mic off. It hasn’t happened. I’ve threatened, but it hasn’t happened. So let’s let’s start getting ah, positive. Okay. You know, the second roughly the second half of your book is seven steps to healing. And i thought you came up, like, five short. I mean that we have another twelve status. I mean, if you want to, if you wantto share power, you’re gonna have to have you got to step it up with twelve steps or or even fifteen. You know, you have more than the colonizer, but but the seven steps are in themselves. They’re pretty radical. Yeah. You know, it’s funny because i did have some resistance, teo having seven steps, right? Because it makes it seem like there’s ah, there’s a quick and easy fix. If i just do these seven things, then we’re done with this, and we could move on. Was a prime number. Got that event, right? Trying that’s that’s i don’t know why. Yeah, so what? You know, but i did need to simplify the process in some ways just to help us get our minds around, you know? Ah, process that we can begin. But there is no linear way are quick way to to solve all of these problems or two to undo what has been done. But there are ways to to to move forward and the steps to healing for me. Where are you? Lets them out for us. Just list all seven. And then we’ll talk about, um sure. So they’re grieve. Apologize. Listen, relate, represent, invest and repair. Okay, so you’ve been thinking about this for a while in this? Ah, i just did. I admire the admire the thinking that goes into this. Yeah. So some of it comes from my own personal experience when it kind of coming to terms and with the sector that i’m working in and the disconnection that i felt as a native person in the space and spending time in my community, teo just re ground myself in my values and on in-kind of acknowledging the wisdom that was in my body and into my community that i could bring to the space the other parts of it come from. I did lots of interviews with folks who work in non-profits and in philanthropy who were i think of very for thinking people in the space activists who are leading movements around the country to get to a place of you know what? What? What have you gone through personally to kind of reconcile some of this on dh then, you know, a lot of this is also based on an indigenous, restorative justice model. So we hear a lot about restored of justice in the nonprofit sector. Now, this is a method that’s used to schools and in the criminal justice system to help people deal with things that have gone wrong, to kind of get back on the right track. And so this is ahh model that has come from indigenous communities where we sit in circle with with the offender, with someone who has harmed us or done us wrong. To get to a place of truth and reconciliation. I saw ah, grieving. Ah, you say everybody. I mean because of our interrelated nous, where we all need to grieve, including the people of color indigenous, you know those who have been oppressed? Absolutely. We all need to grieve. We need to get to a place where we’re just very clear and honest about the history of this country. What has happened? What the idea of, you know, white supremacy, which is not a real thing, right? But why the idea of describe mint too that the harmon, the loss that has calls for people of color but also white people. And, you know, i think that’s well. It’s pretty clear the trauma and the harm that has been calls in communes of color. It’s not so clear we don’t talk about it very much. The loss that, ah, that colonization and the idea why supremacy has actually calls in white communities. But it’s ah, it is. There is a loss there. I talk about it in the book of the idea that white people came from from communities where they had cultures and tribal ways of, of interacting in many cases, languages and things that were given up in order to assimilate to this side idea of being american. And i think now we’re seeing folks feeling a sense of loss about that. That’s why if you see, these commercials for these dna tests are so popular right now because everyone wants to kind of remember where they’re from, and they feel connected to that in some way. Um, and the the thing you talk about two is the orphans, orphans. You say that those of us who are descendants of of the of the settlers you call us orphans. How’s that you called them orphans? This is a term moberg from some research that has been done on whiteness. And it is. It’s kind of speaking to this idea of loss again, sort of giving up the culture that maybe from from from the home country, from where folks settlers came from giving up. There’s those ways of being an interactive in community to subscribe tio, this individualistic way of being in america. And so, with that there’s been a lost of sort of that, that mother country for lots of white folks in a loss of identity. Because although you know i’m not anti american, let me be very clear about that. This is the greatest country in the world, very proud tbe a citizen of this country. But there is something about leaving behind and not remembering where you originated from in order to adopt sort of this new culture here, you know, and and and not that that makes you feel sort of like an orphan. If you’re not, you have no connection to where your grandparent’s or from or the language they spoke of the culture they have. Um and i feel that that’s a loss for many white come unity’s that is actually a feeling that is shared with communities of color on. If we recognize that loss in that trauma that we have in common, it opens doors for a different type of conversation about race. You said a few minutes ago that white supremacy is is not a riel. Not really. All right, well, why why do you say that? Well, i mean, there’s a white supremacist movement, but how are you thinking about it that you say it’s not really well. Well, the idea that that, you know, a certain group of people, white people are superior because of the pigment of their skin is not a real thing, right? So this was a kn ideology that was created in order, teo, be able to i have the types of oppressive movements and systems of policies they have been put in place for many years. And so it is a mind set that has been, you know, an idea that is not really. But we have built systems and societal norms around that, you know, growing up, i was tall. That, you know, are sort of the default for me was whiteness was was better. And so if i were to behave or dressed or act in a certain way, that appeared to be more white than that was going to be a better thing for me. And so we know that the idea why supremacy is, you know, the idea of it is not really, but they’re very real implications and for how we have adopted that belief. All right, um and your you also encourage non-profits and teams tohave a grieving space. But we’re talking about we’re talking about grief. We have about a minute before break, but then we’ll move on with the seven steps. But what’s a grieving space in a in an office? Yes. So you know, these. These steps are personal, but it can be applied an organizational setting. And so i think, especially those of us working in the non-profit, where we’re supporting communities, we need tohave. Ah, space space is in our in our our work live to be able to talk about bad things that have happened and to grieve that into philly motion to be human about it. And so, you know, i share some research in the book and some antidotes of folks who have have done that and the researchers that there it’s actually leads to a much more productive workplace toe have moments where we stopped the work to actually grieve and acknowledge the events are happening. You know, in our communities, the book is de colonizing wealth. Just just just get the book, you know, because we can only scratched the surface of it here in an hour. But d colonizing wealth dot com. That’s where you go. So i gotta take this break. Tell us. Start with the video at tony dahna em a slash tony tello’s. Then think to yourself, what companies can you ask to switch credit card processing to tello’s? Is it a company? Ohm maybe buy a boardmember family member, accompany already supporting you. Talk to them, have them watch the video. And if they switch, you are going to get that long stream of passive revenue from the fees they pay. Tony, that m a slash tony tello’s now back to ed gar edgar villanueva, c i practice saying edgard because i just assumed aunt, i thought no, i’m sure he uses that guard. Just like editor allan poe. Yeah, no, i know. I understand. That’s the it’s your name. You’re telling princessa anywhere, and i i assumed we know what makes you. You know what happens when you make a soon make an ass of u and me, so okay, uh, edgar, um, i like the idea of the grieving space. You know? Acknowledge, you know, everything doesn’t go well all the time. It’s impossible. No organization succeeds a hundred percent nothing. So give yourselves time and space to talk about it, acknowledge it, learn from it and and move on rather than it being some cloud over the organization that everybody’s afraid to talk about or something. You know, it’s how. How oppressive is that? Very oppressive and in philanthropy is especially because we were sort of carrying around the secrets of, like, how this wealth was amassed, our secrets that are within these families that you know many people feel bad about. And so we just need to kind of, you know, beat, be truthful and honest about the history and spend time grieving over that so that we can move forward, as she said. And and that was the next step in terms of you’re next time apologizing recognized, which includes recognizing the source of the foundation money you worked for the reynolds kate be is it kate? But can’t be reynolds foundation? Mean reynolds tobacco, north carolina. You know that money was raised on the backs of slaves? Hyre. I’m not gonna ask you if the kp reynolds foundation acknowledges that, but that’s an example of what we’re talking about in the steppe. Apologizing? Absolutely. No, there was. There was no acknowledgment of that and chapter one of the book is called my arrival on the plantation because our foundation offices were literally on the former as stay or plantation of r. J. Reynolds. And so, really, literally and metaphorically i was i was working there, but no, there was there’s there’s no acknowledgment of that and i think you see that you know in north carolina recently the chancellor of you of the university of north carolina acknowledged that the history of slaves and in building that university and that some of the buildings there are named after a former slave owners what most people of color want is just to be seen and heard and for folks to make that recognition yeah acknowledge and maybe moved to apology for perhaps that didn’t johns hopkins university to do something similar that that they had their founders were ah johns hopkins their founders were slave owners i think georgetown university georgetown sorry thank you okay georgetown they were pretty right there were priests priest founders that were slave owners that’s right actually no ah friend of mine who lives in new orleans is ah black woman who is a descendant on and was called to georgetown to share about her family’s history. And it was a beautiful moment, they said, and community together talking about the history talk, acknowledging the contributions of her ancestors. And there’s a big write up in the paper. And you know, this has been very healing, i think, for the university and but also front for my friend karen, who is now having that you know, that recognition that the contributions of her ancestors you talked a good bit about the reconciliation process in south africa. Canada. You got to get the book way. Can’t can’t tell all these stories. I mean, i know what listeners i know. I know you love stories as much as i do, but there’s not enough time to just get the damn book. Just goto de colonizing both dot com for pete’s sake, you go right now. If you’re listening live, where are yu? But pepsi? Schenectady, nottingham, maryland. Just go to de colonizing wealth dot com. Okay, listening. You talk about and empathic and generative listening, right? So you know often when we when we moved to a process like this we feel bad. We’ve apologized the default sort of like dominant culture way of being is like, okay, i’m done with that. I’m going to move forward. And so but before you before an act, you just need to paul’s toe. Actually. Listen toe, listen and learn. So teo, for for non-profits, you know, i ran a non-profit. I’ve worked inflame three for fourteen years. When i asked non-profits, what is the number? One thing that you wish funders would do differently. The response is always i just wish they would listen because there’s something about having resource is money, privilege and power. When we enter the room, there’s a power dynamic where we automatically feel that we can control the air space and we have an agenda and the non-profits. They’re going to be responsive to what we want. And you know that often is the case. But the best way to really build a relationship with folks where there is ah difference in power and privileges is to actually stop and listen. Put aside your own assumptions and try as best you can to put yourself in their shoes to understand their experience and their history. It’s just it’s just going to make you a better person. I feel like listening is a human right. We all want to be. We all deserve to be hard. And so that is just something that we have to keep reminding folks who have privilege is teo to stop a times toe also listen, until the others be hard. Yeah, put aside the white savior complex. Absolutely listening. We talked about we talked about that a lot on the show in terms of just donors and and i don’t know, you’re next. You’re next step is relating versus being transactional. And that’s that’s that’s the beginning of a relationship is you said, you know, listening. Genuine hearing two. Whether it’s donors or potential potential grantees there, there’s a lot to be learned. So she goes back to the value of bringing representing the communities that you’re that you’re serving. Okay, so relation you want us to ah, you want to relate? Let me ask you, you you you read how to win friends and influence people you say dozens of times doesn’t have trouble reading a dozen pages in a book. You’ve read one book dozens of times. What do you take away time after reading? Ah, dale carnegie’s book dozens of times. Well, you know, i still have an original copy from that i i stole from the library of ah. My mom was a domestic worker, and she was carrying for frill elder elderly man. They had a vast library, so i did it with this little book that you stole from an infirm. I didn’t. Natalie and i feel terrible about a book haunts me to this day. So this is a public didn’t even think to leave, like, twenty bucks or something on the table and have it if i had it at that. All right? Eh? So hopefully this is my my way of giving back is my reparations for for that that wrong. But, you know, and the one takeaway for me in that book is, ah, what is really kind of connected to relating and listening is when you’re when you’re talking to folks, people just really want to be heard. So mostly you should listen. And if you actually just listen more than talk people going to think that you’re a great friend, like, well, edgar, that was such a nice time with you. But even if i didn’t say it and so yeah, it’s really about listening and letting others feel that they’re important because they are. You know, we i think people just feel so invisible these days that just by giving people that moment of filling heard and connecting with something that they’re interested in, it’s just going really take you much further and building a relationship and stop the transactional, the transactional thinking you have you have an example of no, a, ah ah like building design like office design kitchens. You’d love to see a kitchen in the center of of offices. Yeah, you know, so sort of like these ideas, like the colonizing virus, infects every aspect of our community. So, yes, even the way buildings were designed, especially buildings that are financial institutions. Think about what banks look like when you walk in and with with all the marble and, you know, ground hard edge and absolutely foundation offices where you have to go through five levels of security to get in as if we’re as if the millions of dollars were in the office. Right? And so we just threw even how we design our offices and you know the way they appear. Khun b. Super intimidating for folks who are coming in who need access to resources. You take a break when we come back, we’re gonna talk about organizational. Designed to sort of just office designed our last break hoexter give the five part email many course debunking five myths. It’s five parts. Five myths. Think about all you think that all text donations are small and captain ten or fifteen dollars? No, sir. Not true. Do you think there’s a monthly or annual minimum? No, there’s lots of misinformation and hoexter give has a smarter, easier way to do text giving you raise more money. Get the email many course. Text. Npr to four four, four nine nine nine. Now we’ve got several more minutes for de colonizing wealth again. Just go to de colonizing both. Dotcom. Get the thing. Get the book. In terms of designing organizations more egalitarian, you’d like to see absolutely so one of the steps that book is represent and what you look at the demographics of the non profit sector and especially in foundations that hard this sector. We still have a long ways to go with diversity, particularly when you look at the board of directors and the ceo positions folks who really hold power organizations. So what are the one of the ideas that i put forth in the book is that foundations should have a requirement that at least fifty one percent or at least fifty percent of their board to reflect the communities they serve. This would drastically change what you know, shake up what the seats on the bus look like. But this isn’t this far from what is required of many non-profits funders actually are, you know, requiring this of their non-profit that their funding on dh many cover organizations that received government funding federal funding have thes types of requirements that the folks who sit on the boards must be folks who are benefiting from the services of theirs. Non-profits again be representative? Absolutely. Yeah, that’s a that’s a stretch. Fifty one percent is the stretch. It’s a stretch. But you know, the conversation has has been xero about it. So i figured, you know, if we put something a bold vision out there to help us imagine what’s possible, maybe we’ll get a little bit further down the road. And there are some examples use, like the novo foundation in the book. They have a women’s building that they’re that they’re repurposing some old warehouse something turning tow, this building and and decisions being made by women who are going to be using the building. Absolutely. There’s some great examples of foundations and funds that are really putting these values into practice in their work. Novo is a foundation i really appreciate. Jennifer peter buffet, the founders of does novo foundation, wrote the foreword to my book, and they are folks that you if you get to know them, you can see that they have done this work on dit shows up in how they give. They are a foundation that absolutely sits in community and listens teo folks who are impacted by especially women and girls, which is the issue they really care about. And they fund in a way that is responsive to what they they really need versus what the foundation’s agenda might be. Is it no vote that funds for five years or seven years? They guaranteed you cite this in the book. No matter how much trouble you’re having in year one, two, three, you’re going to be funded for five or seven years for their initial commitment, right? Right. And that type of long term commitment is ah, you know something that that is the best type of funding you know folks can be. You can focus on building a relationship versus so i’ve got some meat, these certain objective. So i can keep getting this money year after year. And so to be relieved of that, that pressure of thinking about where am i going to do? You know how i’m going to pay the salaries next year? Really allows folks have the freedom to think about the actual work that they’re doing the communities and planning on dh khun plans that are being one only one or two years s so we kind of mish mash together, you know, relating and representing investing. So investing is really a call to philanthropy. To think about using all of its resource is for for for the public good. Right. And so we are not going to be a sector that achieves equity. That that is really moving the needle issues. If we’re supporting with the five percent are right hand. Really good work. You know, mission related work. But in our left hand, we are investing. Ninety five percent of our resource is in industries and causes that are extractive there, you know, really cancelling out the positive of our resource is so you know, they’re great foundations like the nathan cummings foundation, for example, who just recently declared that one hundred percent of their assets their entire corpus is going to be used on and support their mission. Yeah, on again, other examples in the book, and we have about a minute or so before we have to wrap up, actually. So talk about your final step, which is the final step is repair all of us who are philanthropist or givers. And as we’re getting close to the end of this year, we’re all philanthropists. I’m supporting non-profits in our communities. Think about how we can use money as medicine. How can we give in a way that is helping to repair the harm that has been done by colonization and in this country? And so i think about looking your personal portfolio? Are you giving to at least one organization of color to support grassroots leadership? So reach across support folks who may not look like you invest in ways that are helping to unite us versus thinking about some of the traditional ways of giving that have not been, you know, along this line of thinking are exercising these types of values. Okay, so i’ll give you last thirty seconds in the way that the way i learned that natives are the original philanthropist was by what? You what, you talk about your mom? Yes. So, you know, i think a lot of giving what we look at giving in this country the biggest philanthropy hours, philanthropist or folks, we’re giving the most highest percentage of their incomes. Incomes are actually poor people. And so i do talk about my mom in the book, who was, you know, is actually very low income. And but yet she gave to our community and and how to random ministry out of our church to support children? Yes, the bus ministry, the bus ministry just gotta you gotta get the book. You gotta read about it in history. And so is that giving of time, treasure and talent, not just resource is. And so all of us who are caring for our communities in ways that are, you know, through love is we’re all philanthropists. Get the book. Go to de colonizing wealth dot com edgar villanueva. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me on tony. Real pleasure next week. It may be the new book lean impact. I’m working on it for you. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital p matter-ness deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream tourney dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. Npr to four four four nine nine nine are creative producers claire meyerhoff. Today, rob is the line producer. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music that i’m hoping is going to come on very soon is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great you’re listening to the talking alternative network, you duitz to get you thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor in center of attention. Tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show beyond potential live life. Your way on talk radio dot n y c. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates interested? 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Nonprofit Radio for September 28, 2018: How Foundations Make Decisions: Data Matters

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Grace Sato & Nicole Lee: How Foundations Make Decisions: Data Matters
It’s our final show in Foundation Center Month! Looking at their annual report, “Measuring the State of Disaster Philanthropy,” Foundation Center‘s Grace Sato explains the research her team creates and how foundations use data to make smart funding decisions. Nicole Lee from United Airlines shares how her company does disaster philanthropy.

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent from your aptly named host. We’re live from the foundation center in new york city. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with a stick. I assis if i saw that you double down on the idea that you missed today’s show how foundations make decisions, data matters it’s our final show in foundation center month. Looking at their annual report measuring the state of disaster philanthropy, foundation centers, grace sato explains the research her team creates and how foundations used data to make smart funding decisions. Nicolay, from united airlines shares how her company does disaster philanthropy dahna welcome our studio audience thank you very much for coming out. Welcome to our youtube audience, which sold out. I hope you, uh well, there’s, nobody on who would have been locked out because that you wouldn’t be here, but you may have come back, so i’m sorry if you got inconvenienced if you were locked out, we had so many subscribers we had to raise the cap, but i’m glad you’re with us so many youtubers, thanks so much for being with us on tony state, too, i want you to stay with the show, responsive by pursuing full service. Fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p wagner, sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com bye, tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine youtubers want you to send us your questions. You could put him in the comments. We have somebody watch etching that stream, so by all means, you’re a part of the audience, sending your questions youtubers, and we will get to you. Same thing with our studio audience will be taking questions here, too. Very glad to welcome our guests. Grace sato is a knowledge services manager at the foundation center. She analyzes data to describe trends and priorities in philanthropy. She’s worked in a in the nonprofit sector from more than fifteen years before researcher she was a social worker in children and family services. Greece is seated right next to me. Nicolay is senior manager of corporate and community affairs for united airlines in chicago, illinois. She’s accountable for marketing, communications and storytelling for the group customer facing charitable initiatives and humanitarian aid and disaster response, she’s worked in corporate social responsibility also for more than fifteen years. I want to welcome phil it’s, our friend here, phil. Philanthropy he’s been getting shot out. Uh, people have been wondering what’s that bear in the audience who said, you know the bear phil is no longer in the tardis on stage with us feel standing here sitting here. I don’t know if you can see he’s got a foundation center cap on. I’m no few tubers. You can make that out. But foundation center kapin join me in welcoming philanthropy and grace and nicole, thanks so much for being with us. Great. So we’ll start with you. Oh yeah, knowledge services manager, what kind of knowledge are you accumulating ? We are accumulating knowledge about institutional philanthropy and so no non-profits are often familiar with foundation center because of the grants data, and they’re looking at it to identify potential thunders for the areas of work and internally. We’re also looking at that data to talk about trends in the field of philanthropy, and we’re able to analyze that data in lots of different ways, according teo, whatever the research question might be. And so today we’re talking about disaster philanthropy, but it’s a whole new range of issue areas and some of the things that i’ve worked on or i’m working on this year, you know, it could be funding for dance in the chicago area to funding for latin and central america funding for young men of color. So you know, whatever questions people might have about what philanthropy is doing in a certain area, we’re able to look at our data to talk about is it foundations that come to you and ask you these specifics, like what’s the state of funding dance in chicago, it often can be the knowledge. Tools that we create tend to be funded nowhere non-profit just like others. And so the way we operate based on contracts and grants and so it’s, often foundations that are funding us to do research in a specific area. Okay, andi, is it also initiatives on your own ? Yeah. We used to create these publications on key facts on philanthropy, and we’re going to go back to doing an annual report, like giving us. Yeah. And we do provide data to giving us for for their sort of peace of the philanthropy data. So, yeah, we do some of that. And we do. You know, if there are specific issue areas, maybe not even related to the grants data, but we might do special work on topics that are of interest at the time on dh. Then how is this fed back to ? I mean, i could see if it’s a if it’s a specific foundation or consortium asking and obviously that their privy to the data. How about for the wider community ? How did they access ? Yeah, i mean, let’s say that ninety percent i don’t know. It’s. Just if wait, what we create funded by philanthropy is available to the public so it becomes public knowledge that anyone can access and especially when we’re, you know, posting reports online or we’re creating these websites that people can go to it’s often a non-profit audience that’s coming to use these two okay, is there one specific site people can go to to see all the yeah available research way have it like a research collection on issue lad, i think it’s called knowledge services that foundation center that or always bet up during the break to see if that’s actually correct, but so there is a collection of all of our research report you can go on our web site foundations under not or to see what other like online tools we have a deal okay on, is it ? Is it just us philanthropy that you’re that you’re measuring or global is well now disaster report is global on yeah, we’re getting a lot more global data like foundation center used to be very us focused, but we have a lot of partnerships with other organisations where we’re getting a lot more non us donordigital dahna and so increasingly what we’re able to analyse isn’t just about us. And so the disaster philanthropy work that we’re doing, we’ve done this annual report in partnership with the center for disaster philanthropy for fight. This will be our fifth year, but this is our first year in that time to actually say let’s, just look at the whole universe offending, not just limited to us foundations, okay, donors as well as recipients, of course international as well, okay, buy-in bonem so we moved to the disaster philanthropy area, you’re so this is an annual you’ve done this, what, like, three or four years in a row now ? Okay, um, and you’re covering not only natural disasters, but man made humanitarian christians as well movement of people, refugees, yeah, and that’s, the kind of work were able to do in partnership because we’re sort of the experts on the data that are our funding partners or partners, whoever they might be, are they experts in the issues that we’re analyzing ? And so when we first began working with the center for disaster philanthropy, one of the first things we did was build this advisory committee to talk about, like, how do we want to look at the data around disasters and so with this expert committee, we have this taxonomy that looks at the different disaster types before this work, we just sort of had a code for disasters that now worry about the distinguished what’s for hurricane versus what’s for a volcano and look at it in a more nuanced way and also specific to this project they were like, we’re not just interested in the type of disaster, but we’re interested in where in the funding cycle are people giving so there’s a lot of giving going towards an immediate response and relief that how can we know what’s being given for a long term recovery, who’s getting for disaster preparedness ? And so when we work in partnership, were able to say, okay, well, this is how we can begin to code the data to look at those kinds of questions. How confident are you ? Of ? Of what ? Uh, what percentage of the data of the last disaster giving you’re able to capture ? Oh, um, that’s a big question. So, like foundation centers, focus is on institutional philanthropy, but there’s a whole lot of giving going out from individuals that were not necessarily capturing, you know, we’re able to see, what is the u s federal government doing through fema data and hard data, but your country’s air giving for deciding things institutional include government ? Yeah, and what we were able to do right now is track us through the they’re sort of measuring what’s given from governments to governments or what’s giving from multilateral institutions. And we’re analyzing that data but there’s a whole world of data that swimming out there and so were we were analyzing what we have access to at the moment. Okay, okay. Let’s. Bring nicole in and we’re gonna talk more about the disaster. Philanthropy report. Cole, uh, um acquaint us with the philanthropy that united airlines does have, does it ? How does it react in this disaster response area ? Well, at united, you know, we pride ourselves and as an airline and preparing for emergencies for aircraft emergency specifically. So we’ve got a lot of experience and skills in those areas and lends itself really well in the immediate aftermath of a natural disaster and really that’s sort of where we have found a sweet spot for ourselves in terms of being able to leverage our assets are network or people on our customers to respond to natural disasters, so really, since since i’ve been with the company about ten years now, i can think back to about two thousand eleven was the first really major major disaster that we responded to is the japan earthquake and tsunami, when the fukushima power plant went down on that impacted some of our people that were out there stationed at the airport, and we had an opportunity to provide assistance, and we look at each situational in isolation of bite-sized so really, what can we do to respond ? How does it impact our operations and our employees and our customers on what’s the best way for us to add value to the situation ? It’s not every night, every disaster that we respond with an aircraft, we have aircraft, and we have the ability to get in where people might not be able to, but in some cases, the real power and value that we add is helping to stand up fund-raising so we’ll run an online fund-raising campaign and provide an incentive for our customers to donate cash. Our disaster partners were well versed enough to understand that the best thing that we can do in disaster situation is to provide as much cash support as we can for the the experts, uh, but all of the humanitarian aid partners that are out there disaster response experts that know what they’re doing, rather than doing code drives and who drives, we understand that’s not a very productive way to respond to this disaster. So we do look at those factors you were able to leverage. The united resource is to come in from chicago. I think you want everybody flights. Thank you for your see the boards. It’s aa years is the thin crust, a deep dish twenty five times a day, right from new york to chicago. Many operas even shout out unearned media for united airlines. Absolutely, absolutely. How do you decide ? You know, as the company let’s make explicit united airlines doesn’t have a foundation, right ? We no longer have a direct information on all of our corporate giving is then through through our department corporate community affairs, we continue to support many non-profits and causes around the world through our department is s o is the response than primarily when it’s, when it impacts united operations, you you have hubs ? Um, is it when it’s one factor that this was one yeah, it’s an important factor may would be lying if i said that it wasn’t absolutely it’s a corporation is a corporation way look at every every situation of itself in the case of the nepal earthquake or the haiti earthquake. So those were two locations we didn’t serve commercially on with haiti. We felt really compelled, given the state of the country that really urgent need for assistance on and we were able to secure an aircraft when we’re the first commercial airline to fly humanitarian flight into port au prince um and that really i think, is a point of pride for me. As a united employees, we focus on doing what’s, right ? And when we can. And when it makes sense for us to do it, we do. On. We ran humanitarian flights until the airport was open for commercial operations. When you say humanitarian flights is that flights that have a dh correct way people toe responders is a matter of fact. Wear passenger airline. But we carry quite a bit of cargo as well, eh ? So whatever we could fit in the bellies of these planes, we we brought water. We brought medical supplies. We brought tents. We brought surgeons. We bought rue, brought search and rescue. We brought experts in clean water. There were a lot of a lot of various volunteer groups that we opened up our aircraft to to bring people in on. And then we were part of the evacuation exercise as well. The military was in charge of the airport at the time, and there were droves of people who were looking to get off the island on. And we flew those people out of port au prince into different places like chicago or new york. Um, scuse me just chicago at the time. Actually getting my time wrong here. But if they needed to get beyond chicago. We took care of that too. Uh, worked really closely with a partners to make sure that individuals had what they needed when they got tio their destinations. If we’re flying them through chicago, we had partners, they’re ready to give them clothes is a lot for a lot of folks. They don’t have anything but the shirts on their backs waiting for their waiting for a way out of the island. Grayson, do you find that local foundations will will help in in some kind of crisis, even if it’s outside there outside their mission, you know, if they’re they’re devoted to funding or use dance of arts or social services or something that’s not related to humanitarian relief directly, but they’ll they’ll they’ll step up anyway. Yeah, i mean, i think when a disaster hits an area, it affects everyone and everything. So even if your focus is like the arts, you’re artists are going to be impacted by that disaster. And so one of the things that are partner of the center for disaster people impacted. Yeah, maybe students might be the homeless, you know, whoever it is you helping during that there’s a. Need there differently than your mission exactly. And it’s, not common tear. A foundation described themselves as a disaster thunder like there aren’t that many that would say that’s what we do, but when a crisis happens, every funder becomes in some way, disaster funder, they’re going to be doing something to address the crisis. And so one of the things we hope is that as we keep talking about it and hasn’t keep bringing data and best practices, fenders will start to think of themselves a little bit differently, so that don’t make choices that will spending decisions that will really make an impact on hoping whatever population there trying to serve. Do you find that ? Not sure how to work this is it foundations relying on ? They must be relying on local partners. How did they ? How did they determine who they’re going to partner with in the midst of a crisis ? Yeah, you can’t have partners set up everywhere, right in the certainly in the country or even in the world. How do you how do they make those decisions ? Who ? The partner with the day of a crisis. The day after a crisis ? Yeah, i mean it could depend on the thunder thunder focuses on a specific region they might have relationships with the non-profits that are working on the ground, but often, if that doesn’t happen in a foundation, wants to give teo kind of a topic that you talked about a couple weeks ago on community philanthropy it’s often the community foundations that are building some kind of response and recovery fund that larger foundations will give. Teo and nicole, you can probably speak more to that, but, um, kind of with the understanding that these communities next she wants your Job yeah, somebody 1 of the job last week too. He was that paul was that guy thought he was set for overviewing and then he botched something. He got all confused. He lost his point. He said, well, i should get what i was thinking. I was going to say so stuart, was that stuart ? Yeah, stuart post. And then so i bailed him out, so he realized he was not teo ugo. So ? So how do you how do you do that ? Nicole, what do you do in a crisis ? You go to community foundations or if it’s international, how do ? You choose the local partners, give often times it’s cash, you said. Sure, so we do, like i said, rely heavily on our on our global partners. But at the same time, we rely on our folks that around the ground, our government affairs and international regulatory point, is your employees s so i can point to a really great example of this with the community foundations is with california wild players. Att the end of last year, beginning of this year, we said, we ran a few fundraisers and really looking to make sure that the dollars are staying local, giving our customers options to provide funding for various different size organizations. We partnered with shasta regional community foundation as well as north coast opportunities. Most recently on really got those recommendations through our community relations staff person, who’s on the ground in san francisco and working through a government affairs folks that are on the ground as well. On let’s see grace’s diving little deeper to the disaster philanthropy report. Now you two met when the report was being released. Is that right ? Yeah. Were you in love with the report ? Really old friends way was about this time last year. Okay, what ? What ? Give us a like a top one or two take aways you know, top points that their people were goingto direct people to the reports. That report is available to you, let’s start with what are a couple of major points. Yeah, right. So it’s, based on kind of the annual analysis that we d’oh called the state of disaster philanthropy and because of the nature of the data that we’re working with, we don’t say we have a complete your set of data until maybe about two years after the fact. So, like this year, we’re releasing a report in november, and that will be about twenty six places to write this twenty seventeen from twenty, fifty ways. Yeah, trusted team. So we’re always a little bit, you know, behind because you just need enough data and the way we are able to get data can take time to collect. Um, but i would say maybe the main takeaway from the work that we’ve been doing is probably really intuitive, but it kind of it gives the analysis to support what one would already imagine to be true, which is that the majority of funding for disasters happens for the immediate response and really effort and there’s not enough funding going towards the mid to long term recovery and there’s not enough funding for preparedness for communities and making communities resilience before and the long term after mid term and long term after yeah, you know, it’s it’s hard the you know, the cameras go away, the next news item comes up on dh people in that region, whether they’re refugees or it’s ah, tsunami, you know, there’s suffering for years, but the attention of the world moves on, yeah, the needs linger. And i think that’s also where, like the local partners, the community foundations are really important because there they’re there to stay, you know, they’re part of that community, and so they’ll be able to see the needs with a long term and i think that’s also why they’re important partners in this work because there, i think, may be able to address and see and feel the sort of longer term impact of these disasters and address them and try to keep attention focused them, i guess, the attention of funders not going to get the attention of media unless it’s the anniversary of the media, likes to come back a year later, the two years later, what’s the progress, et cetera. But in the meantime, funders funder attention needs to be, you know, nicole is united ableto help in the in the mid term and long term after after a disaster ? We are so we are able, teo and i think, you know, having listened to the presentation and of the report last year was really eye opening for us, but really did sort of reinforce what we’ve been experiencing ourselves in terms of seeing the need for more preparedness and resiliency for a very long time. We were way found our our niche really to be in the immediate aftermath and hadn’t really considered what the opportunities were tio continue helping with rebuilding and resiliency, really looking at the other side of that with preparedness. Really, i think, with with hurricane harvey last year, i think it really hit home to us with harvey hitting right in the heart of houston twelve thousand employees there we felt it very acutely with our own families that were living there and our operations being impacted and the communities that we really cared about. So i think post, harvey, we really started to look at what other partnerships we could we can engage in and with partners with our disaster relief partners. What are they doing in terms of preparedness and resiliency ? So it’s looking at are the landscape of our partnerships to see what what it is they’re doing. We really trusted our partners to be the experts, you know we don’t it’s not our business, tio be disaster, philanthropy and disaster response experts. We really look at ourselves is really strong partners to help our help empower and enable our non-profit partners to do what they do best really lean on them. Tio do that. And then, of course, to the extent that it’s it’s cash that e-giving from the from the from the customer campaigns, you know that if that’s to the community foundation, then there’s, you know there’s a contribution to the interment linked arms graceful zsystems yes, it’s going to say and there’s something to be said about this foundation’s being prepared for how well really will respond the next time ? Probably built in the body of experience that way kind of no, we don’t want to do this, we want to do this and having, you know, there’s like a different level of prepared miss four philanthropy to teo themselves be ready for how they will respond to the next disaster. One of the things i heard recently was that for community foundations it’s really important for them to have a mechanism for individuals to give to their friend because after, like, three to four days, the donations were well, peter is like a third comes in the first three to four days, and then the remaining two thirds come within, like two weeks or something. Yeah, very short iss and so often, when community foundations are building this response, recovery funds, they actually need to have that set up as soon as the disaster happens because people will want teo set up in advance so that it could be activated and promoted, and one of the stories was that from the puerto rico. Disaster last year the community foundation didn’t have a mechanism in place, and so it was sort of a cautionary tale for community foundations. Durney is to be ready, and of course, you know them, they had their electric power grid go out, so yeah, but yeah, so there’s a level of preparedness for institutions, um there’s a level of preparedness for individuals and no so quickly people to be ready. But, yeah, the preparedness happens in all sorts of different ways that i could come in on that affecting offer something really quickly just sort of based on everything that happened last year with harvey, irma and maria. Then there was an earthquake in mexico city. More and more, we’re seeing weather events that are severe and needing assistance on what one of the things that came out of that experience last year was really within our company at least coming together with our business continuity, emergency response, human resource is and community of various teams. Teo come up with a playbook. So you talked about preparedness, and we are much better prepared based on learnings from last year, you know, with wanting teo provide as much care for employees and customers as possible. I’m balancing that with the resources that we have what’s realistic. So now we’ve we’ve spent the better part of the last year putting together a playbook that has, frankly just ready menu items that we can deploy and then we’re ready to do. We’re ready to deploy an activate none within, you know, twenty four hours of an incident, but we also have a framework that allows us to evaluate what we want to deploy and this year, in fact, with our fund-raising so i’m glad that you brought that up in terms of the number as well, we do disaster fund-raising campaigns with our customers from this year was the first time that way did a general disaster risk excuse me, disaster relief call out to our customers. We’re looking at florence at the time, and there were about five other severe weather uh, yeah, there was the country there was typhoon man coo out in the pacific, and we actually have a lot of operations out there as well and impacted our customers and our employees were global company teo run separate campaigns for every single one of these was not realistic. And it’s not helpful to our aid partners as well. You know, if we put up a campaign for one incident and then there’s two that come right behind it now, we’ve sort of sucked all the money up out of donations, and these organizations don’t have the flexibility because they accepted money for a specific incident. Eso in really providing the most flexibility tio r a partners to do what they do best general disaster, general disaster campaign that’s running through the end of october right now where we’re offering our customers doing it donate fifty dollars or more bonem smiles thanking them for their contributions because we know really yes, yes, you can earn up to one thousand miles telling e-giving linklater. Yeah, well, can you now have an inn ? Can you give me, like, a double match or something ? So we’ll see what we can get. Three thousand for the for the fifty but wait till the mikes way. Have you have any questions that start with our studio audience ? Any ? I have. Ah, pre prepared. I have candy as an inducement. Teo. Question asking. You will get you get one of these life savers. Can any ? Questions ? Any questions here, anything on our live stream ? The questions. Okay, youtubers, don’t forget. You know i can’t send you candy. I can show it to you. I can tease you with it, but i cannot dole it out. Sorry, but ask your questions. Youtubers, um, and let’s say this seems like a good time. Well, yeah, i do a little business. Ok. Do a little business pursuant. Their newest e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take secrets from the fastest growing corporate startups and apply those methods and good practices to your non-profit work. The resource is free, just like all the pursuit resources are and it’s on the listener landing page, which is that tony dahna slash pursuing with a capital p for please or precise. It could be for pursuing, but use the capital. P ah wagner. Sipa is there’s. No accounting rule on how you account for contributions. Is it a contribution or is it an exchange transaction ? You don’t have to no that’s. The beauty of this wagner has you covered ? You start at wagner cps, dot com and then talk to the partner. Which tomb. And if ? You’re here in the audience, you could talk to him right now because i’m going to raise his hand. There he is, there’s, one of our sponsors. Eat c p a he’s here you can ask him about this new rule and then after you goto wagner, cps dot com or you do it live here, then talk to you about your nine, ninety and your audit wagner, cpas dot com tell us credit card processing, you’ve heard me read the testimonials from non-profits that have referred business is to tell us for credit card process setting those non-profits are getting a long tale of passive revenue because each month fifty percent of the fees from the card processing go to you to your non-profit that’s, that long tail of passive revenue. You’ve heard mimi the testimonials from the businesses that a using tello’s for their credit card processing the way to get started watched the video it’s at listener landing page, tony dahna em a slash tony tello’s. Hoexter give, have you got your phone ? 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You want to stay with non-profit radio ? We’re not going to get the foundation, senator, starting next week, but you can stay with non-profit radio the way to get info on this show every friday the live stream at one o’clock eastern, but of course, it’s a podcast you can listen any time you like at your leisure were to get the info is go to tony martignetti dot com you can sign up for insider alerts you’ll know you’ll get you know who the guests are three through one email or just subscribe just subscribe you do it all at tony martignetti dot com. I hope you’re going to stay with us after we leave the foundation sent it’s been a great place, but the show has to go on and they can host us every single fridays. It’s as asking a bit much uh, we got to send the live listener love so the lifeless there love goes to, of course, our youtube stream on our live audience here. Thank you again, both audiences. Thank you for being with us. The podcast pleasantries that’s, where the vast majority of the audience is over thirteen thousand listeners each week, whatever time, whatever device you’re listening on pleasantries to the podcast audience and the affiliate affections go out to our am and fm affiliates throughout the country. Lots of community radio stations carrying non-profit radio. So grateful to your stations for doing that. And grateful to you for listening on those am and fm stations. Terrestrial radio it’s going nowhere. It’s not going to die. Podcasting is not going to kill am fm radio. It’s not gonna happen. Affections to our affiliate audiences. Okay, back. Teo grayce latto knowledge services manager at the foundation center and the coley senior manager of corporate in community affairs for united airlines. Um, let’s. See where should we go ? What was your what intrigued you about nicole ? About the disaster ? Philanthropy report. What ? What drew you to this ? This whole idea ? First of all, i didn’t actually know it existed. We’ve been out of the foundation game for a little bit, so it wasn’t necessarily paying attention, but so there had been a united foundation in the united uh, we’ve changed over, so we do all the corporate giving, as i said through our department corporate community affairs and what really drew me, tio want to hear about the report was just really to see what the state of disaster philantech e-giving wass i wanted to see what what the rest of the world was doing and to look for opportunities potentially for where united could get involved as well. I think one of the great things that this resource really does is that, well, it exists, which is amazing because, you know, individual companies and foundations can’t do that on their own on dh it’s really, really invaluable information because it reinforces funding decisions. Uh, well, well, we well wasn’t driving funding decisions for us is absolutely reinforced the direction that we were headed. Okay, cool. What else can we so we talked about, um, preparedness, not enough resources devoted to them before, on the mid term and long term after in need of resource is so that’s, so important. Takeaways. What else ? What other what’s ? Another lesson. Weaken. We can draw from state of the last disaster philanthropy as the twenty seventeen report as it existed in twenty fifteen. Um, well, you know, talk a little bit like we do have a report. It’s a static report way also, everything that we do relate it to disaster. Philanthropy is that disaster. Philanthropy dot foundations under dahna or but in addition to the report. We do have, like a website, a web portal sort of where people can actually dig into the data in a way that they’re interested in looking at it. And so one of the things we have is a funding that and it’s visualizing the data that feeds the report so that you can actually see what’s behind it, like, who are the funders giving what you know, what are the size of the grants, whoever e-giving tio, what are the smaller grants that air going out there ? And so, you know, one of the things that foundation center has been doing more of over the last couple of years, it’s not just producing static reports because they get published their true for that moment in time, but there’s so much else that continues to change and things that people are learning and grants data continue to be distributed. And so with something like a mapping platform, you know, we’re behind and sort of the years, but we’re still getting you data. And so that gets pushed onto the platform so people can see what’s the latest that we have at least and with something like an online tool. You can then drill down to see what our partners that you might not have had on your radar that other people are giving to that you might be interested in if you’re trying to get a sense for what’s going on locally in c, you know, some of the smaller organizations that might not get that might not have, like, a national reputation, but they might be doing good work in a specific thinks, you know, red cross first, first there always the largest percentage, but there’s so many organizations doing lots of good work. And so we hope that with these online tools, that will get lift it up a little bit more, and then the other thing is that it highlights the gaps in the funding you know, by seeing where the money is going, you can also see what’s not getting funded as much, and so some of that is related. Teo, you know, the way that week do the work around is asked to plant the people beyond sort of the disaster philantech analysis for any kind of research project that we do, it highlights where funding isn’t going, how it compares with other groups. You know, and so we hope that three that funders will then say, well, i only have this limited amount of dollars to give for this area. So how do i make that count more by giving it to an area that’s not funded as much you’re seeing any shifts you’ve been doing it for five years. I mean, you could potentially see, see shifts ? I mean, are you seeing more devoted to preparedness and the medium and long term theun initially five years ago ? Not really, really. Keep touching, phil’s ear. I’m sorry. First of all, i forgot to give a shout out tio unless he has a tag on still he’s, like, totally unprepared. And i keep touching his xero something you know, it’s. Nothing essential right now, it’s. Just i just i can’t help my hand just naturally falls there. I’m sorry. Okay, sorry. Eyes. Yeah. So i think with the disaster work so much of it is dependent on what disaster occurred in that year. So there was the year where the response was so high i was the evil you’re that ebola. The ebola outbreak was huge, and that was largely driven by remind large what year was that was in twenty fourteen, and then it sort of trickled into twenty, fifteen, fourteen, and so when you get a big thunder like the bill melinda gates foundation, this is their area where right help, and so when there’s a disaster, that sort of meats that that area that they’re really interested in, they were giving a huge amount for for that response and relief effort, and then the next year they were continuing to fund, but then they’re started sort of starting to look at, you know, how do we build up resiliency in these african countries for the next outbreak ? And so when huge foundation can drive trends, you know, because they’re giving so much money and so that in twenty fifteen then there was a lot more going for risky ridge action resilience, that kind of work because of the gate, but but blending for the ebola kind of area work. So i don’t think it’s too soon to say that there’s a trend overall trend for making different funding decisions. Um and it still continues to be episode it arika the call, but can you say a lot more about what united is able to do look mid term and long term ? Or is it really just yeah, i guess you had already said yes, so we’ll let all of that gets done through our partner grayce really, with our ongoing global partnerships with a great partnership with a group called air link that provides there like a man buy-in service, basically for ngos and non-profits who are looking for cargo or passenger lift into different disaster areas to do humanitarian worker disaster response on really rely on partners like them to know where the need is most. So we provide travel, and they leverage our travel to get people there. So with the ebola outbreak, i think it’s okay, since we’re replying, you know, responders into the area, i believe at some point we also gruesome medication smaller on a smaller scale, and that was sort of outside the u s and i think back then, we were much more domestically focused now, absolutely begun to grow sort of more of our global reach followship dealing a little bit too, like one of the limitations and how we’re able tio for you is the data at disaster philanthropy foundation, center dot or ge or that’s ? Where the reporters you can see all of it there, you’ll get access to the reports. You can see them that you can see. We have, like, a dashboard that gives, like, analysis that you consider. Okay. That’s all a disaster, philanthropy, dahna foundation, center, dot or ge okay, please go. Yeah. So, you know, one of the limitations on doing any analysis is the quality of the data that you have. And so we’re doing this analysis based on kind of the best available data, which often isn’t that descriptive. You know, a lot of foundations enters data, is coming from ninety forms because foundations are required to report their grants data. And so when there’s not enough description, it’s really hard to say, like a nuanced way how much money is really going towards these specific areas of a disaster, you know, disaster work, and so one of the things that were always trying to get foundations to do is to share better data with us so that we were able to be more descriptive and what the actual landscape is and so zoho eyes there a reason that foundation would be unwilling to ? To share data, you know, i think there’s a growing movement for foundations to be more transparent and, you know, that’s true sector wide yeah, why why would we like ? Why would they give you us to form ? What would be some, you know, options are on the type of foundation it could be, you know, there’s so many very, very small foundations that may not be stuff, and you don’t have the capacity to share that data. It’s your surveys ? Yeah, one more thing that someone has to dio um, and you know, some foundations and you want to see kind of under the radar. Teo, one of the things that you hear in disaster philanthropies that corporations may not want to talk about the war thirteen because we don’t want to get solicitations for friending they don’t have the bandwidth to dress, you know, calls coming in for help, so there could be reasons why, but the thing that we try toe encourages that foundations khun tell their story, you know, and and own that story through their data like bacon sort of narrate how they’re getting, why they’re giving three that data and they could stay the way they want to otherwise people may read their nine nineteen come to their own conclusions, and so we do have a number of foundation to voluntarily give their data to us and that’s one way we’re able to get more current data, but i think just were always sort of in the search for a better team. Oppcoll what are you seeing ? Generally, you know, beyond united just among your peers in another, in other corporate socials, social responsibility on what kind of trends are you seeing ? I think, you know, obviously with the number of disasters that company’s air having to respond, teo and sort of the the clip with which it’s being covered in the news also drives people’s prevent metoo respond to them, so i think we’re having to be a lot smarter about how we’re using the limited resources that we have obviously working inside of a corporation we’re stewards of the available funding on we’re also running a business, we’re making investments and communities trying to make smart ones, and the data absolutely helps to drive that as well. Yeah, so it’s not thie event or episode gets the most attention from the media. But deserves the great proportional funding ? Yeah, culturally, absolutely. When one of the things that we’ve done it united over the last year and a half or so, it was really get into what the critical needs and each of our major markets are. So where are our biggest presence ? So here in the east coast, in york, in new jersey, houston post, harvey was a big investment that was made in a the houston greater houston food bank, a direct result of what happened with hurricane harvey. So we see decisions like that being made. I think overall people my line of work are really looking with a keen eye to see where they can best leverage. The resource is that they have, you know, when you are not the exxon mobil’s or apples of the world, you get really creative way have really found a great opportunity to work with our customers are very generous customers to collectively work together to fund disasters toe just one disaster relief, i shouldn’t say fundez aster, we don’t want to be hurt faster. That is not what we want, teo, but to fund disaster response and really to bring the most help where it’s needed as quickly as possible and as efficiently as possible. So you finding that there’s more reliance on data on you getting more requests today than you did many years ago ? I mean, you’re doing the disaster. Philanthropy, uh, report. Just for five years. But you’ve been researching long before then. Are you finding a greater reliance ? Ah, good or interest in data driven decision making. I feel that we are, but it could be just because last year’s disaster season was so dramatic traumatic. There were so many disasters taking place in a really concentrated period of time at the end of twenty. Seventeen. And so we got a lot of journalists, you know, wanting to report on this. And what this philanthropy dealing. So we were getting a lot of requests for data and that’s. One thing that i will mention is that, you know, the analysis that we do every year is based on, you know, to your old data. But because we know that there is a lot of interest in real time like there’s a disaster occurring right now. What are thunders doing ? We have have a colleague. His name is andrew. And he begins to sort of scour than use sources and gdpr newswires, just to see what our foundations and corporations announcing about. They’re giving for a specific disaster. And so we’re able to then get a picture of what people are doing as it happens. So we’ve done that with hurricane florence on our our news, our new site, pnd philanthropy, unused. I just there’s a blob tracking hurricane florence with kind of who do we know are the biggest donor so far, and you can actually open up a spreadsheet to see what we found based on these new sources. So i own two homes in north carolina, so who are the biggest funders ? O, you would be asked, listen right now that we have this wall, more than five million loes committed another two or three million, and i’m going to forget who the curse teo shot, shot a man. Thank you, thank you. Uh, see, even i forget it’s, not stuart posters. That’s. Only one neo-sage i could see when we’re thinking, okay, help me out like you were mentioning a playbook. But you have now. And so one of the things i feel like i should bring up is that our partner, the center for disaster philanthropy, also has a place like this is like, i know what it was. Okay, go ahead. And this is meant to be a resource for philanthropy like it. If you want to do strategic smart philanthropy, what should do no disaster. Finally, what did you know what of other funders learned ? What our key studies ? The things that went well, you know, so there’s this whole place that you can go it’s called the disaster look, dust repellent people book come, our fenders are disaster, philanthropy dahna or ge in-kind that there disaster, philanthropy dot org’s. You’ll find the playbook there and what i was going to ask you was, uh, how about broader ? Forget about disaster ? Flandez we just go broader ? Are you seeing any greater interesting in data driven decision making ? Your work is not just disaster ? That’s, just one report you’re collecting all kinds of data, our foundations being any smarter today than they were ten years ago about funding decisions, i think there’s a greater interest in data, whether and how that’s driving decisions is probably specific to foundations. I think that within philanthropy, there’s a lot of strides that are being need teo like, how do we measure our impact, you know, like, how do we know we’re making a difference ? And measuring that, yeah, very it’s, hard it’s not easy. And so i think there are a lot of hard conversations about that, and i think from foundation center’s data point of view, one of the important things i think we can do is begin to benchmark at least what’s happening, you know, like we wouldn’t have done this disaster philanthropy analysis without a partner that was willing to say, we want to know what the sector looks like in this way, and so once you sort of set a benchmark, then you’re able to follow it over time and see you’re making a difference. And so i think that benchmarking pieces probably important for a lot of areas like i’ve done that lives spending for black men and boys, you know, there was a partner initially was open society foundations, they had a campaign for blackmail, achievement, and they wanted to say very specifically what isthe philantech be doing for african american men and boys, and we had never kind of done research on that. So our first kind of report was what what does it look like what’s going on ? And then from there on you’re after you’re able those sort of track how the progress is going, and also then identify is it is the finding starting to dip ? You know, there was sort of the swell of interest and foundations were, you know, getting really involved and funding really in a targeted way, the specific population, but, you know, we’re able to sort of see the trends of whether or not that sustained and growing, whether that nicole, are you able, teo, hold your partner’s accountable ? Or are you relying more on the local organizations for outcomes impact analysis ? Are you able to do that yourselves ? Or we do rely on our partners a lot ? Teo again, we’re in the airline business, we get people safely from point a to point b so we do rely on our partners to do that in this first. You also want to make sure no one is obviously being spent to weigh, evaluate that on an annual basis and we we look at look at what they’re producing in terms of outcomes, the number of people that they’re reaching know if they have studies going on sort of the long term impact of their programs, so we have four. Major e-giving areas that were focused on lifting up communities in crisis after disasters. One of them. Breaking down barriers and promoting inclusion, really wanting to build a more inclusive society, uh, inspiring the next generation of leaders, which is really stem, focus with being a technical industry of and the shortage of pilots and qualified people know we’re really looking to make sure that a cz many young people as possible, especially young girls, as well as social, economic, about a minute. Sure, sorry. So, yes, we do hold them accountable, because we have conversations, and we’re gonna cast a conversation about where we can have a bigger impact. Okay, so glad to see, you know, reliance on data as much as we need more. Sounds like grace is saying we could use, you can use more. Any questions ? Any questions ? Start with our live studio audience in studio. No questions were channeling the audience so well that there’s no, not a single question. All questions have been anticipated. Have have you perceived any difference in how our foundation makes its grantmaking decisions versus how a csr program or corporate giving program might make its philanthropic decisions ? So i haven’t really work in a traditional foundations because the candy prince that do i want to say, though, that i think that the main difference in terms of the driver of the decisions really is, you know, looking at obviously foundations, air stewards of their funds as well, and they wantto wantto invest those in a smart way with with corporate giving, i think you’ve got the nuance of looking at where you can also have reputational benefits as well and where you can have the biggest impact and interacting and engaging with both customers who are, you know, lend to your funding as well, because customers have a have a big influence over your ability to give see, we take that responsibility very seriously. Andi, look, to find the best partners and, you know, most effective ways, teo, create the biggest impact with the resources that we have that answers your question, all right ? We’re going to the giveaways because i know the lifestream does not have any questions. So i’m going to give away you’re gonna need your phone. You need your phone youtubers ? Of course you are included in this going be texting for books were texting very literate. Non-profit radio is very literate. Audience e-giving away books i’ve got. I’ve got four different books as prizes this week. All right, uh, but only one prize per person, please. So, if you’re a winner, then you have to step out the next time and the system will catch you so don’t don’t try. Don’t try to game the system, okay. First one first five people, my voice treyz crack. I think it did. Five people first five people text are going to win this book. This is modern media relations for non-profits first of all, you of course you need the Numbers so here’s the number 2 five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven something you’re not texting. You’re not in it. Not literate. I thought i thought non-profit one hundred percent literal audience. All right. Two, five, two, five. One, five, seven, nine, eight, seven. So this first book, modern media relations for non-profits, written by peter panepento and antionette cur. They were on this show just last month, walking through the details of how to set up on be eligible for earned media paid media and your owned media. The stuff you have in your own toolbox. How to start relationships with journalists, how to be media friendly. So journalists confined you. All right. So you got the number ? Two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven. Um, what else ? That cover ? How to position yourself is a thought leader. Yes. So that reporters want to talk to you about the subject matter that you’re expert in all right. The book is brand new. Um and here’s. What ? Your text. All right, you text data, so you’re not in it. I’m sorry. I’m sorry to see that we got plenty of youtubers. Alright, that’s what you do you text data to that number ? All right. Next book. Next one is i didn’t bring a copy of everything’s too many books to carry. The next one is i have just one copy of this one. One copy. One winner this time it’s braided threads. Ah, historical overview of the american non-profit sector by dr robert penna. He was also on the show. Just last month, how did this ? How did the social sector get here ? How do we come to look the way we do it’s history ? First person to text, same number. Oh, i should said, same number, same number you got two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven, same number you text threads, threads for braided threads. Alright, third book, also one winner, one winner, same number, the same number. This one is ah, you, us and them length in marketing concepts for non-profits. I see some people now and then. Now you’re jumping in because you want this book. But you didn’t get the number, so you didn’t get it in the beginning, all right, it’s. Two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven for the linked in book, this is going to one person you text linked in, linked in. And the final one. This one, this is robert. This is the the biggest seller of the of the four. This one is new power. The book by henry tim’s ceo at the ninety second street y new power. I says i saw this on a bookshelf in an airport. Um, last chance one dive, one copy of new power to give away and you text same number henry henry the name henri texted. Now that’s it. Okay, those air, the giveaways next week. We’re not going to get the foundation center sad. We gotta say goodbye to the foundation center, but you could still be with us. Of course. Go to tony martignetti dot com for the info. And next week we’re talking about the state of good twenty eighty team non-profit survey and also your brand personality that’s next week on non-profit radio. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers, go to wagner, sepa is dot. Com, like, tell us, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream, tony dahna em, a slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy. Tony dahna may no, no that’s, not a tony dahna missy. I get so carried away with the total narcissism. No! For text to give you text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Shows. Social media, is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Many thanks to tracy kaufman, susan she aroma and william lee at the foundation center. Thank you so much for keeping us going this whole month, all three of you, you with me next week for non-profit radio, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great.

Final Show: Foundation Center Month On Nonprofit Radio

Be in the studio or on the live stream for our last show from the Foundation Center, this Friday, 1-2 eastern. We’re talking about foundation grants decision making: How the sausage gets made. 

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