Tag Archives: fundraising

Nonprofit Radio for September 28, 2020: End Of Year Fundraising

My Guest:

Jen Frazier: End Of Year Fundraising

Jen Frazier talks you through. What do you want in your workplan? How does the pandemic impact your strategy? It’s a comprehensive convo for your 4th quarter. She’s founder of Firefly Partners.

 

 

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[00:02:04.74] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of or a facial granuloma if I came to learn that you missed today’s show. End of year fundraising in Fraser talks you through end of your fundraising. What do you want in your work plan? How does the pandemic impact your strategy? It’s a comprehensive convo for your fourth quarter. She’s founder of Firefly. Partners on tony Stick to Planned Giving accelerator were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money, changed more lives. Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant a free month. My pleasure. Thio Invite for the first time to the show, Jen Fraser. She founded Fire Fire Fire Fly Partners in 2007 and has more than 20 years of experience in the nonprofit sector. She’s been at Planned Parenthood Federation of America and part of the team that planned and executed the march for women’s lives in 2004. Ah, high point in her career, she lives in Boulder, Colorado, with her two kids and gets around mostly by bike. Jen has a knack for putting things together, from project budgets and puzzles to Ikea furniture. The company is that Firefly partners dot com, and she’s at Jenna T. Firefly like Rufus T. Firefly, who knows that movie reference? Rufus T. Firefly. But she’s Jenna T. Firefly with one end. Yeah, T Firefly. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:20.24] spk_0:
Thank you so much. Great to be here. And yeah, it’s just it’s Jen at Firefly. So it’s done up. It’s It’s just Jan with one in at 80 Firefly or Twitter. Not genital.

[00:02:20.93] spk_1:
Your Twitter, your Twitter.

[00:02:23.02] spk_0:
It’s Jen at Firefly. Partner Janet Firefly is my Twitter, but it’s not Jenna T. It’s Jen at sea. It’s eight.

[00:02:30.95] spk_1:
Okay, look, look back at the email that you sent me on you said Gente Firefly. So I immediately thought of Rufus T. Firefly.

[00:02:40.24] spk_0:
Well, I like it. I like the reference to so that’s okay with me.

[00:02:49.04] spk_1:
It’s old Groucho Marx, but it doesn’t, but it’s it’s totally inapt because that’s not your Twitter. So your Twitter is

[00:02:58.44] spk_0:
Gen. At Firefly Gen. At Firefly. Yeah. Oh, well, I know I just Okay, Right

[00:03:16.27] spk_1:
now, we’re I’m quibbling. No, it could be Jenna t Firefly. Or it could be Jen at Firefly. Alright, so no. So your email was not incorrect. All right, so I take that part back. Your email was not incorrect. It’s just how we’re reading letters. E n a t I read. Oh, I read Jenna T Firefly and you read it, Jen, at Firefly, Your middle initial is not Is your middle initial by t By any chance?

[00:03:29.71] spk_0:
It is not.

[00:03:30.78] spk_1:
Because then I would’ve had a big score. All right? It’s not all right. Alright, so All right, so Alright, alright. I do apologize for saying your email was incorrect. That’s not true. It’s okay. Jenna T Firefly or Jen at Firefly. I’m sure you’re gonna get a ton of new followers now because we

[00:03:49.57] spk_0:
just wait. I gotta go. Look this up. Get this

[00:04:12.44] spk_1:
into the ground now. Yeah, OK, but I like the Rufus t Firefly reference to, so All right, I’ve got some construction going on here. You may very well here. There you go. There’s banging. You might hear some cutting banging, uh, crow borrowing crow. Barring my deck is being replaced. And, uh, you know when when you can have a contractors who works, you don’t tell them and send them off the job.

[00:04:18.91] spk_0:
No, you do not. You know, they show up, you put them to work.

[00:04:40.44] spk_1:
That’s right. And they continue working. And I don’t You don’t You don’t stop the working contractors so we’ll persevere. Uh, it’s just like in the background. But that’s the that’s the construction noise is on my side. In case yes, there is there wondering. Um, all right, end of your fundraising. What do we have Thio Do you have to keep in mind, like overview first and we’ve got plenty of time to spend on some details?

[00:06:01.64] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s obviously that time of year. Um, it’s ah, it’s a particularly crazy time of Europe, but we can’t can’t stop the end of your fundraising. For most, you know, non profit sits the bread and butter moment for most org’s. Um, I would say what we’re hearing and what we’re seeing from a lot of clients, which we’ll talk about in more detail, is certainly the Should we do it? How do we do it this year? Super crazy? I would say Absolutely. Yes, yes and yes, very enthusiastically. You have to ask on Dhe. You can’t be afraid. Can’t be shying away from it. But I’d say the biggest piece that’s different this year. Um, it’s sort of the contextualizing and sort of the way you’re going to go about your messaging. Um, obviously, people know kind of the fundamentals, generally speaking. But I would say the biggest mistake we see nonprofits do is you sort of have, like, not that much messaging. It’s a little bit cold. And then suddenly you’re like, Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You just, like, go straight in to the asks, like right away. And you hammer your supporters, um, which you know, might work OK in some years. But I’d say this year it’s certainly worth thinking about sort of again, like the context, the ways in which you’re approaching that messaging, but certainly try to mix it up also a little this year. Maybe not. Just go straight with just hard core messaging, messaging, messaging. Ask ask ass. We’re gonna talk about some of the ways you can kinda add a little bit, um, into your typical end of your messaging for folks who have only ever done sort of just straight like, Oh, well, I’m going to do a couple of things around giving Tuesday and then I’m gonna just hammer the last week of December or something like that. I would encourage you toe start now and start planning earlier and start thinking about some different messaging, arcs and timing to just provide your list a little more relief on dhe to sort of stand out in different ways because it’s gonna be Yeah, I think looking for some of the few fewer dollars it might be around this year. It’s gonna be more important ever than sort of like really refining and honing messaging that you go into the end of your with

[00:07:13.72] spk_1:
it. Sounds like some of what you’re suggesting is a little softer compassion. Maybe absolutely no,

[00:08:46.24] spk_0:
that I think you’re right on it. Za compassion space. I think that, you know, really key components that folks would you typically dio and definitely should try to dio, maybe even more so. It’s not just sort of the typical sort of Hey, look at all the great things we’ve accomplished this year, which is always a real key piece of any end of your look at the great things that you know we’ve accomplished together. I think some of the big pieces years also messaging and we standpoint from your non profit to your supporters, even if they haven’t been that responsible, been, um, real active in giving this year because it’s been a little bit of ah, anomaly for everyone still really contextualizing. It is we, but also really recognizing that everybody is in the same boat right now, and everybody is in a obviously very uncertain, unknown, probably economically challenged position. But that doesn’t change the work that you’re doing the organization and the critical nature of the support that folks can give to really help. You know, diseases don’t stop in a pandemic. We obviously get worse there. You know, the environment obviously isn’t getting any better. All whatever your cause might be. It’s still critical work. It was critical before. It’s still critical. Don’t try to downplay sort of the need to stone message about the importance of the work you’re doing, but obviously be very compassion. Leading I think with the messaging is probably one of the more little things in the context of this and saying you’re Yeah, I

[00:08:49.94] spk_1:
understand. What are some of the pieces that you feel belong in your end of year work plan

[00:08:57.04] spk_0:
in the work plan? So I think some of the things that folks are kind of experimenting with even more so this year is ways to make your messaging connect with your folks. So some of the suggestions I’ve heard from people that were incorporating with some folks is even just doing small video snippets that you might embed or drive You can either embedded in the messages themselves that you’re sending or have links. You know, just just have ah, still of the video that links to the embed on your site. Things like that from your either from your executive directors, maybe, or some of your program people, or even most effectively, some of your he volunteers that you might have, or donors that have been long time supporters of the organization, um, to really bring again that message and bring that face to face element into your messaging when obviously we’re all in a very disconnected distanced world right now, bringing the face of the organization so I can not just the team members by folks who are out there doing your work. If you had the opportunity to host or do some virtual event work, or maybe did your gala remotely this year providing snippets there again and or links back to that on your website so that people can, you know, kind of review if they weren’t able to attend the you know that live version of it you know, China showing some of that work and again showing some of that interactivity that you are incorporating. Um, and if you didn’t have the opportunity to do that this year, you could even right now incorporate um opportunities first with live fundraising, even during your end of your campaign, I know it’s gonna be a busy month for folks, but especially early in the month, you could hold a little virtual fundraising event a ZX part of your end of your If you’re feeling

[00:10:58.56] spk_1:
early in which month

[00:11:01.24] spk_0:
early in December. Sorry, it’s sort of in the heavy. Giving somewhere either around giving Tuesday at the beginning of the month or somewhere that you find is a strategic moment for you, probably not as it gets closer to the end of the month because there’s just too much going on. So it’s a either leading up to or right around or immediately after. Um, you could do it. Thank you. Virtual kind of giving an opportunity. Thanks for all the work that we’ve done this year. Help us. You know, with a big push and end of your there are lots of different ways you can sort of incorporate that messaging into your into our potential. Like many live event, even in the December time frame that really draw enthusiasm into

[00:11:50.84] spk_1:
your I have a couple of a couple of questions around. What you just asked, What were you just talking about? The video snippets. Might we put those what, on a like a fundraising landing page?

[00:12:12.14] spk_0:
Yes. Yes. I mean, you could certainly obviously host them in the m e o or YouTube, but you embed them on a landing page, that right there as they’re watching it, they have the opportunity to give right at them, motivated the You can bend them and bend them right on your donation form for sure. And they can play right there as your and then they could give right at that moment. That’s your best case scenario. Don’t Don’t make people click too many times. You’ll lose them, obviously. Or don’t just send them to you. A video off YouTube. That doesn’t provide them the opportunity to give

[00:12:32.17] spk_1:
that a call to action. Right. Andi, we’re talking End of your fundraising. So that called action is make a gift,

[00:12:38.26] spk_0:
Make a gift and yeah,

[00:12:40.48] spk_1:
mentioned fundraising, Many events. They’re a little more about that flesh. Shut out. What do these look like? How do we promote them? How do we get folks to come to them?

[00:14:50.34] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, just like obviously, with any event now in the in the virtual space, you can do it just as easily as this. Like you can hold a zoom call. You can provide folks links. Obviously. Zoom in any of these, you know, virtual. You know, Dylan, you want to provide security so that you’re not going to get spammed or you have too many other folks coming in. But if you send it out to your list or a segment after your list, you can also find this is an opportunity to say, Hey, my already active donors, I would like those folks to come to a special event. You could also make it sort of like a V i p kind of event or things like that, for for segments of your lips, like you’re high level donors or things like that, we could make it more personalized setting where smaller groups are coming together and having the opportunity to interact with each other. Lots of times, we we suggest, folks. Then hold a zoom in a conference style where you’re presenting and your attendees air and sort of listen Onley mode and you’re presenting content. And so the important pieces there are, you know, think about the message and you wanna put forth you obviously right, a full script. You’re doing lots of promotion again if you’re doing it in a very segmented way, you’re targeting those messages only just a smaller subsets of your list, or you could make it more broad, but you’re going to provide a secure log in for folks you’re going to then say, Who’s gonna be on that? Maybe maybe it’s just a now or two of, you know, thinking again. Highlights of the year. We want to really think you know folks who’ve turned out for us. We want to show some of the results. You’re putting together a little script, and you’re obviously building a message there of motivation, care, compassion, connection with your, you know, with your supporters and and providing throughout opportunities where you’re showing a link to give opportunities where you can again, like in bed. Some of these videos, later on a landing page of people weren’t able to attend and alive instance. And it’s all about compassion, first connection, understanding the importance of the work that you’re doing and just doubling down on the mission of your organization that work again. It’s still is still critical, but it’s really important to sort of just draft a script. Make sure you have, like if you’re gonna have key guests come in, you have them all and sort of that they’re in presenter mode. And so if you’re passing the baton, everybody knows when they’re speaking what they’re speaking about. You kind of drafted that all ahead of time and, you know, you could do run through. I highly recommend doing doing run throughs before you actually show up for a live event so that everybody knows sort of the cues and handoffs and all that and what’s gonna come next. And oftentimes people will put live, you know, snippets in the middle of prerecorded content, which helps sort of take the pressure off of, you know, needing to be live and speaking for the whole whole time. But usually an hour or two is plenty, and that’s all people really have to give, you know, a lot of times to attend some of these live events. I think people feel like they need to come up with, like, tons of content and tons of time. But mostly, we say, keep it short and sweet.

[00:16:43.65] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Just this week, a friend got an extensive quote in Business Insider magazine. I asked him how he landed it. He had a relationship with the journalist the writer called him when he needed someone with recruiting expertise. Turn to will help you build journalist relationships like that so that journalists call you. That’s how solid the relationships are. Turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners, Peter Panda Pento, was an editor at the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to end of year fundraising. I’m hearing folks are mhm. I don’t know if burned out is too strong, not burned out with it without, But I’ll use it getting burned out with screen time.

[00:17:50.74] spk_0:
Oh, yeah, you don’t Your everybody right now is and I just call it zoom fatigue. Even if you’re not using Zoom gonna hang out whatever urine screen fatigue, screen fatigue. So I would say the other piece there is sort of make it fun, you know, make it like, interesting. And like people have been having I’ve seen really fun like little parties where people are, you know, encouraging other people to sort of show up, dressed up like have your like, maybe make it a virtual holiday party and giving that kind of thing and sort of like, you know, you’re not doing a lot of going out right now anyway, so go out, but stay in and sort of like, make it, um, make it fun as you can and make it sort of party like or really again, it’s It’s a good opportunity to really think and be in a space of gratitude for the folks that have continued to show up for your organization through obviously, what’s very topsy turvy kind of year and just again reemphasize the work that you’re doing and it is to continue it.

[00:18:08.44] spk_1:
So let’s talk about the pandemic because that’s obviously still in full bloom and will be through the end of this year. We’re talking end of your fundraising s. Oh, you did mention being mawr compassionate. Softer What other? What other advice are you giving around messaging?

[00:18:16.94] spk_0:
So I think it’s an interesting thing right now as you’re planning this, if you think about hosting either just the message you’re going to do in your emails or if you’re going to do some of these sort of adding video content or even go to live, think about the timing and which is gonna happen to us. You’re going to do this messaging in what is probably gonna be a really extra hard time, because we’ve had maybe a little bit of a respite over the summer where you’ve actually been able to go outside and you’re your mental space is probably okay right now. But really be thinking about were months into then winter and really being enclosed, and it’s gonna be a double down. I’m a little.

[00:18:55.59] spk_1:
We’re talking about doing something in late November or early December,

[00:18:59.16] spk_0:
like think about what? That’s going

[00:19:00.66] spk_1:
to full month. So it’s full all of October and all of November away,

[00:19:52.14] spk_0:
right? So you’re already like, you’re like, I’m I’m, you know, feeling even, maybe a little bit. Like I think this is gonna be a hard winter for a lot of folks just because of, well, who knows what’s gonna happen? The election, that whole You know, what not, but because the pandemic isn’t going away and I think it’s probably going to see a bit of a surge again, as we do with, like, most flu like, it’s just one of those things you kind of just be really cognizant of, like how to think about again, my personalization. And again, this is where you could take take your your segmenting with your list very seriously and kind of say okay, great thes air folks that I’m gonna go maybe a little bit softer with my message, you know, because maybe they have been on my list that haven’t been as active. Think about ways you can sort of take your key mission elements and, you know, just maybe try toe, tweak it in a bit. Maybe that you haven’t before or just think about ways you can serve again, like personalized it or keep it, um, you know, try new hooks. Try new ways to help people think about the ways in which your work Think about what’s been happening with the organization over the course of the year during the pandemic and how you maybe have had thio toe alter what you do a little bit or tweak it a little bit because of the, you know, distanced space were in and really, you know, to find that a little bit better for folks or help people make the connection. Sometimes, obviously, people aren’t seeing maybe how your work is tied or has been affected by the pandemic. Highlight some of those things because I think

[00:20:37.55] spk_1:
vulnerability like, don’t be afraid to be vulnerable.

[00:21:11.04] spk_0:
Absolutely, absolutely, like differentiate your messaging by. Here’s how we’ve been impacted. We’re right here with you were having struggles to don’t over downplay like doomsday and messaging, but sort of just be up. Be honest. We all been like we’ve been struggling. This has been a hard year for everybody. Here’s how it’s impacted us and put that out there because I think one of the things that’s been most helpful or multiple most interesting for us. Working with org’s is that vulnerable space. The don’t try to put on the sheen of Like Everything’s fine. It’s all gonna be OK. It’s OK to sort of say, you know that you’re worried and and the impact that is actually having on your work or how you had to

[00:21:24.25] spk_1:
appreciate that That that honesty absolutely openness again vulnerability.

[00:21:29.64] spk_0:
Its key. I think so. The compassion with you know, the this key. But I think the vulnerability is probably even a better word. Thio

[00:21:36.97] spk_1:
genuine. It shows that you’re genuine, sincere, absolutely human,

[00:21:41.55] spk_0:
E I mean, that’s

[00:21:43.29] spk_1:
lose our humanity over

[00:21:44.49] spk_0:
this. This is the space where the humanity I feel like actually Muchas there zoom fatigue. It actually, for me is help sort of bring a lot of humanness into people that I’ve had a very professional relationship with in the past, where you’ve actually been like Oh, you know, my kids were running through or, you know X is happening you’ve got contractors in your house, you This is it. This is life. This is who we are and really leading with that human to human connection. We see people in

[00:22:13.08] spk_1:
their kitchens. Absolutely. I saw someone in a in a bedroom because the kids were out in the other. The other parts of the house. I think that’s why should. She was in her

[00:22:49.34] spk_0:
best, like everyone’s trying. And so you’re like carving out your own. You’re trying to carve out a space to do your work. Be a partner, be a parent with all the different, be a daughter’s. You’ve got multi generations and houses. You’ve got all sorts of things happening, and it’s it’s showing in a way right now, which I think is actually quite beautiful on Dhe. I think if organizations can really lead with that space, I think that’s where people feel. The connection is what drives people to give. I mean more than sort of like Certainly it’s the impact that organization, but it’s like the people doing the messaging connect with the people who are, you know, driven to give. That’s you’ve got those key emotional moments that drive the giving and so trying to find those and again leading with that humanness vulnerability. It’s critical, critical right now more than anything, and people are starving for riel connection. And not just these sort of like Okay, great here these Polish, you know, webinars and hear all these great glassy materials. It’s like actually, we really, like yearn for the person connection that human connection is critical. So I would say, Definitely lead with that.

[00:23:39.04] spk_1:
I’ve always thought you know you just because you just referred to glossy pieces. I’ve always thought that sincerity Trump’s production values

[00:23:47.84] spk_0:
I don’t

[00:24:06.22] spk_1:
have toe have pro mix and lighting and pro video someone sincere with a with a phone in their hand, shooting themselves for 30 60 90 seconds with a heart felt thank you. Or here’s our need type message that I think that trumps all the whatever.

[00:24:31.64] spk_0:
I think that’s actually a good sort of also like kind of lesson or take away is like, don’t be afraid to try some of these things because you don’t have the right equipment or you don’t know what you’re doing, or it’s gonna feel like you’re gonna mess up well, good do. And don’t worry about having out like the best microphone or the lighting isn’t right or you’re gonna Look, you don’t have, like, look perfect. You know, you’re what, like, this is absolutely time. Just let all that stuff go. I think maybe before you’d have been maybe trying to be, like, put together a more polished video piece or something like that and have to have higher production team or something like that to do it. And I think a lot of times in the past you have folks would be really afraid to be like I can’t do like a video piece like, I I don’t I can’t afford to do that or whatever we get. You can, because you just have your you zoom or your Google meat or whatever, do it yourself or your phone exactly like you can do it. And it’s still with that connection that is going to drive people to give the glossy production piece like Not that you can’t. There isn’t a space for doing that at some point, but it’s not critical. It’s certainly not needed, and I think it doesn’t resonate as well,

[00:25:14.04] spk_1:
so you could have ah piece from your CEO or executive director? Totally. We’re talking about embedding email before embedding video email before, it could be something simple like that,

[00:25:23.54] spk_0:
Absolutely. And I honestly think that, like one of the things we’ve been trying to do a firefly is actually, I love executive directors. You’re amazing. You’re keeping it all together and you run all that stuff. But honestly, it’s the highlighting of the more of the front line staff. And the people like doing the dirty work. Sometimes you just want to be like those of the stories that, actually again, sometimes are told is often. And there’s sort of these bigger, yeah, kind of impact pieces. But if you just talk about you know Jane Smith, why is she does the work that she does? Why is she motivated? Even, you know, like, why does she show up every day and do the work that your organization,

[00:25:58.89] spk_1:
how your gift, how your gift helps me Jane do that work

[00:26:10.64] spk_0:
right? Exactly like that’s like, Yeah, I mean, I’ve had we’ve had some of the most amazing conversations with folks who are just why they’re motivated to do the work that they do every day at your organization is probably some of the most compelling content that you have, in addition to, obviously, the real life story of the impact you know, getting into and again like, maybe that’s the other pieces you’re highlighting if you have ah, direct impact type of organization, a story right from, you know, some family that’s been impacted by the work that you do, and they could tell their story. It’s again that getting as personal and real right now as possible is the motivator. Toe giving, I think the connection there.

[00:26:46.94] spk_1:
What about giving folks options? How much to give?

[00:28:41.24] spk_0:
Yeah. And again, this is again depending on how much data you have, your systems and how well you can segment, I’d say one of the biggest mistakes we also see people doing is not segmenting and giving folks, uh, different giving levels. Um, if someone has given, you know, $50 before, certainly starting them at 100 or something like motivate them like push them to go higher. Someone’s already given you 250 bucks. Start them, you know, with the form that says 500. I mean, like, really sort of try toe, motivate something, but you don’t want to give somebody, Obviously the $50 donor. Don’t drive them to the $500 form. So you do need to have a little bit of that segmentation. So this education and if you can’t or don’t know how to do dynamic gift arrays on your form based on, you know, don’t be afraid to even just say I’m going to create two or three forms and I’m gonna segment and send people toe for, maybe, or see if you can’t do in a dynamic format, don’t be afraid to at least try and give folks those different options. It is. There’s a million statistics out there about when you drive someone to a form that is higher, giving levels they will give more. They will. I mean, they just will. So go there, Get you know, mind your data. Find a way. Do whatever tools you have, find a way toe pull out and segment. You’re either non donors and drive them into at least an entry level of, you know, $25 starting going up or your mid level and your high level and drive them to the appropriate forms with the right giving levels don’t just sort of send them to that one generic form. You will see that a result with just a little bit of extra work to segment, um, and drive to the appropriate form.

[00:28:42.91] spk_1:
Absolutely. What about asking to make it monthly?

[00:30:06.74] spk_0:
Yeah, this is a moment where I think there’s always a little bit of tension for folks. Certainly, we want to just get the gift. Um, if you’ve got folks who and like, you know, there’s different, different times of the year that I think you could try to do one time to sustainer campaigns. Some argue very much. The end of your isn’t the time to try toe to do that because you’re just trying again, like get these, you know, mortgage gifts at the end of the year. But I find that if you could move into the that, the mid mid level donors that have been consistently will give, like a gift here, a gift there. This is a perfectly good time. Thio sort of turn it into sustain Ear’s for the following year. Again, if somebody is even giving you into the hundreds or thousands of dollars before do the math or again If you have the abilities with your tools toe, have it do it dynamically for you. Make it just so that that they become a recurring giver. They’re obviously going to get Mawr, but it feels like less impactful for them every month. Oh, you’re just going to give $20 a month? Oh, and you know what that’s gonna be because they’ve only given you. Maybe they’ve given you 100 $50 before as a one time gift or a couple $100. But if you turn it into that Oh, if you could just give us $25 a month, that’s equal to you know, three coffees or whatever. Um, obviously, we all know that the how the math works. So But I would say, Don’t try to take your you know, if somebody’s Onley giving you once before or those types of done again, it’s all about the data that you can collect a one time donor on Lee. Obviously, they’re gonna be less likely to just suddenly turn into a sustainer. But those folks who have given you a gift here and a gift there, or they give you every time it end of year. But that’s the only time they give those air really key people to sort of zero in on and say those air critical and more likely to turn into sustain er’s attend

[00:30:39.10] spk_1:
up here. So you do it for the right folks. And then it’s not likely that you’ll see a reduced end of your performance by asking, Would you like to make it monthly?

[00:30:50.94] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s your again. They have to look at your different data points. So if you say well, they would have given me $250 as a one time gift it in a year. But now I’ve turned them into a you know, a $40 month sustainer. Obviously you’re getting you’re getting $40 rather than 250 at end of year. But obviously the impact for your organization is much greater. Oh, yeah, you have to sort of. You have to look at the data carefully so you don’t just go about. My overall gifts might have decreased slightly, but my overall long lasting impact of the organization has certainly gone up.

[00:32:57.64] spk_1:
It’s time for tony stick to planned giving accelerator. I told you last week we extended the first class. So the first class is gonna start January 1st 2021. This is a brain dump. Everything I know about how to start and grow your plan giving program, I am going to teach to plan giving accelerator members. You want to get your plan giving program started in 2021. You’ve heard me talk about this so many times on I’m not done. By the way. Uh, if you don’t have a plan giving fundraising program, you can start in 2021. You don’t need a lot of money. You don’t need expertise. This is not only for your wealthy donors. It’s not gonna hurt your other forms of fundraising. All these air myths that people use to make a plan giving this black box this complex thing that they don’t think they can do on their own. You can. I’m gonna teach you how become a member of planned giving accelerator. You got to get everything I know about how to get this program started in 2021. All the information you need more detail and how to join is that planned giving accelerator dot com. I hope you’re going to join me, that is, tony. Stick to Let’s return, shall we to end of year fundraising with Jen Fraser. Just the importance of segmentation a couple of times.

[00:34:21.14] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s critical, and I know that we work with a lot of organizations, and that’s a burden or a barrier. It’s like this. There’s a There’s a level of effort there, that a lot of work. They’re still just sort of sending the same message. So their whole list and, you know, you get mixed results with that, I’d say not Not effective, you know, really, Overall is a strategy. So even simple segmentation that was like, You’ve never given before you’ve given once or you’ve given multiple times like almost every tool out there can allow you to segment. At least that was, you know, those kind of big buckets, Um, and in the messaging that you’re sending, obviously is a lot more of a gratitude stance, even with non donors. Just thanks for being a part of our community and that sort of stuff. You can still find ways toe. Thank people for being on your list the type of gratitude that you then put to a previous donor is much greater. So you can certainly be like Thank you for this. Think if you’re a lifetime giving amount, Thank you for, you know, also, um if they if you also know they’ve done other things, they volunteer. They’ve come to events like again. The more data you can find out about and the more personalized those messages can become, the better. You know, the stronger the connection you’re gonna make with that individual on the receiving end of that, the more they’re going to be motivated to go. Oh, they this organization cares. They’re paying attention. They know that I’m involved. They know what I dio and they care.

[00:34:36.16] spk_1:
They’re acknowledging there, thanking their grateful thinking before right?

[00:34:39.56] spk_0:
Not

[00:34:59.84] spk_1:
gratitude. Yeah, there’s back to humanity. Gratitude, gratitude, compassion, humanity. All those things really should often be in our fundraising or always be always be not just often always be in our fundraising, but like I hear so many times we will each heard 1000 times in the past six months so much more now because of the pandemic, because folks aer isolated, reach out and be that much more humane.

[00:35:10.68] spk_0:
Compassionate? What The compassion

[00:35:14.49] spk_1:
heartfelt, but I can’t think of any other adjectives.

[00:37:15.73] spk_0:
Well, those were all perfect on. That’s like, you know, and I would suggest that you do some sit down, you know, even just your team or you can, you know, get some messaging help from folks or whatever, but just sit and marinate in that space for a minute. Like, really think about your messaging. Really think about being in that compassion and vulnerable all those operatives you just listed in that space and thinking, What do I want to hear? You know, from organized Because obviously everybody that works and non profit almost I would say 100% of them give. It’s not their non profits. So think about what motivates you when you receive a message and, you know, really kind of double down on that and say, Gosh, alright, and spend the time if you can. Um, you know, if you’re starting now very much like, what can we do? How can we pull the data out? How can we learn more? How could we segment better? Um, and taking that time, we’ll have, um, really, really big impact on the outcomes that you’ll see in the giving space in the giving time because it’s a again, the more personalized, the better that connection, the deeper and the more you can you not be in a space of gratitude, I think is critical. Um, and it doesn’t have to be this huge burden so it can. Even even simple segments can make a big difference and taking people have given over. You know, you have to look at your giving and figure out where your thresholds or I won’t and say, Oh, these are the exact dollar amounts where you want a segment. But you look at your overall giving and you find where those breaking points are and where you really like, have a smaller again. How do you really, really, really pamper some of those high dollar donors and really show how much you care? What can you get back to them? Are there things that you can actually physically get back? Are you Are you sending gifts back or what? Do you? Are you sending stuff in the mail? What is it that helps really differentiate and show those folks, um, you know that you care in your

[00:37:22.94] spk_1:
That’s where a personalized video could be outstanding, like a or one of the other companies that does that, you know, Right? Snippets. 30 seconds a minute on the fly. You You’re walking Well, I walk on the beach, You’re walking on the beach. That’s the first thing I think of. But you’re walking on the sidewalk. Wherever you are. You can shoot a quick video to thank someone for a gift that just came in.

[00:39:01.72] spk_0:
Ah, 100%. That’s actually profit one. I didn’t actually talk about that. It’s That’s the follow up and the next steps. So you know, you get the gift. Amazing. What does that immediate auto think? Look like? I think a great opportunity. There is also. Yeah, Do maybe a video there or again. That’s that, Like viral piece, obviously. Then how can we help you really be motivated to just tell a couple of their friends about the work that we’re doing? Maybe they’re not even on our list. Maybe they’re not obviously gonna get incorporated into your end of your giving. But how can we then take this as an opportunity to grow your just overall this size? And then just to double down on that anybody that’s new, that’s coming into your list during this as a space. How are you welcoming them into your organization? IDEO personalized quick videos from again BDs or other staff? Or again, like the folks who are impacted by your work. Those all really bring a new person onto your list s so much more deeply, quickly. And then if they come in and they’re new, understanding that segment if they come in new in the in the next, you know 90 days how your messaging them and welcoming them and easing them into, you know, a gift. Ask like you don’t again like First Message like Out of the Gate. Even though it’s end of year, it’s suppressing the right folks to as well, a segmenting the right folks to the right message to. So there are. There are several different streams that happened in there, and certainly these tools that have really great marketing automation set up make it that much easier for folks You’re not, and they’re trying to do like a ton of like, re segmenting and re personalizing and data manually work on the automation pieces, understanding when folks are coming in and the different ways they’re coming in. And if they do that first gas, what’s the next? What’s the next and next? And

[00:39:30.44] spk_1:
so are there some tools that you like that you can

[00:41:30.91] spk_0:
recommend? You know, pretty much all the tools Right now, I think male Champ has good stuff for folks were just looking for a pretty, you know, good industry point for messaging. We use all use the market animation that’s involved, the every action and engaging network tools are great because then they just high right into those you know, donation forums that you make as well in the system. Obviously, um, even illuminate There’s great messaging automation. There’s so many email marketing tools out there, but those are the ones we work in the most. I would say that we find the majority of our clients, um, in and I’ve really Then, you know, I’m surprised I’m not surprised. It it feels like a lot and then be like, Oh, I gotta, you know, turn and, like turn into a data scientist almost to figure out how to, like, really do effective segmenting and messaging. But there are some simple automation is you can set up in these tools to really help take the burden off of you as well. And you can set a bunch of this stuff up, obviously a lot of time. So when the frantic nous of the like giving Tuesday to end of Your madness happens, most of those were already set and you have the message in there. Obviously, it’s not like a big surprise right now. You should have two sets of messages going on right now. Outcome A from the election and outcome. Be like Just do yourself a favor and right both sets now because you don’t wanna have to be scrambling. So many people in 2016 had all their yea Hillary messages already written. I hadn’t even thought that it would go the other way and let were literally scrambling. I don’t want to think about the other outcome, but unfortunately we have to say that’s a possibility. So do yourself a favor and just be ready with, you know, both both sets of messaging ahead of time so you can, you know, push the right one forward and you’re not scrambling at that moment to come up with the right messaging in that. What could be pretty devastating outcome.

[00:41:33.36] spk_1:
So so one letter has a picture of rays of sunshine. Another one. Another one has a dumpster fire

[00:41:40.26] spk_0:
on even then,

[00:41:42.23] spk_1:
conflagration in

[00:41:43.25] spk_0:
a sea. Hard as that is, it is challenging. And as it is, trying not to be overly doomsday if that with a bad outcome on the election end of your giving this again still gonna happen and still critical, and it actually might be even. Sadly, it’s sometimes the bad outcomes or more motivator. But either don’t try to capitalize it on too much and don’t try to be too dooms days. You kind of have to weave, and they’re in the middle between not like the world is on fire and we’re dying. We have to give and, you know, organizations or

[00:42:14.95] spk_1:
and let’s be egalitarian because I I don’t do politics on plan Giving that profit on non profit radio. Maybe doomsday scenario for you is a Biden,

[00:42:24.90] spk_0:
Absolutely. I mean, absolutely, that’s what they either outcome. You have to be ready with how your organization is kind of position, either outcome, So you have to start it just be like whatever that means for your organization. The outcome will obviously have a big impact. So just be ready with both sets. That’s Yeah, keeping it, you know, keeping it neutral. Just be ready in whatever that looks like for your

[00:42:50.20] spk_1:
order testing. Testing? How do we know if we’re doing these things correctly? How do we test different outcomes? What should

[00:45:26.99] spk_0:
we be testing? There is a lot, you know that you can still dio I’d say probably one of the most critical is, um, you know, in the midst of it, you could test subject lines because that’s obviously the first thing that’s gonna motivate somebody to get to hope it. And obviously, then there’s the subject line. Testing Almost every tool obviously has a B testing. And in the midst of it, you can send out and again when you are making your plan and your campaign calendar for the year, you build in some time for some testing and almost all these tools within take the winter and push push the winter to the fullest. Um, the other big one is, um, testing your landing pages and or you’re giving pages. So if you’re not familiar with something like Google optimized or something like that, take the opportunity now ahead of time and put a form A and form be could be things like one column or two column or one step or multi step different language. Different fields that you show that air default or required. There’s lots of different ways you could test and optimize your form again. Maybe you could start testing and seeing how a form with a video or without how those air resonating even ahead of time and take that information and put that into the equation of saying, Okay, great, you know, with our list, because every list an audience does perform a little bit differently. You can obviously go look and see what industry trends air showing. Um, there’s been big swings of, like, the one step form or the multi step form or the whatever, but you can try some of those, but I find that actually, what’s even more than the one step of the multi stuff? You could kind of get that down, but then within that you’ve got messaging in a tree fields on dhe, just overall. Um, you know all those conversion rates, you see what’s happening for, like abandonment rates and that sort of stuff. So looking to see which of those air happening on your form, so and then you know, beyond the subject line, Um, the message, content and layout itself. You could test, you know, more of a. I think we always, you know, we tend to move towards less content is better, But again, every every list performed a little differently. So just think about like Mawr images, fewer images, less words, more words in your messages themselves. You contest that now you know, do a lot of baby against that and then the follow up again, like we just talked about through that immediate think once you do get a conversion, what what’s the best thing to put in that next message? Should it be, tell friends, should it be like test that like what? What’s pressing for people? Once they do make a gift or do do a particular action? Always test that the next action, because that’s the most critical moment in the life cycle. With that, with that, you know, supporter, they’re already there. They’re motivated. You’ve got their attention. What’s that? Next thing you’re asking is you test that for

[00:46:30.28] spk_1:
sure. Time for our last break. Dot drives dot drives Engagement dot drives relationships dot drives is the simplest donor pipeline fundraising tool. If you want to move the needle on your prospect and donor relationships, get the free demo for you because you’re a listener. There’s also a free month. It’s all at the listener landing page we’ve got but loads more time for end of year fundraising. General, we’re testing some of these things like subject line or videos, message content. What’s the minimum size test like if you’re sending If your segment is 25 people,

[00:46:42.68] spk_0:
well, then you’re

[00:46:44.87] spk_1:
what What makes a legitimate test?

[00:46:47.71] spk_0:
I mean, I was a Yeah, depending on the size of your list, Um, I would like to get 10% you know, 5 to 10% at least of your list as a test. But, you know, you would like to ideally have, you know, again, depending on the size of your list, if you’re only gonna have under 100 or something like that, any any segment. Generally speaking, you’re not gonna have statistically significant amounts in there. Let’s say you have, but that’s okay. I mean, I would still say test But you have to know that there are There’s a break off point where you’re not going toe have, like, really statistically significant data. But you’re going to say, Hey, this this is the data I’ve got. I’m gonna run with it even if it wouldn’t pass the stats test, you know, test are

[00:47:32.22] spk_1:
it’s worth testing. Even a segment

[00:47:35.23] spk_0:
of sizes. Small. I would test, but I would say try to take a least a 5% sample. Um, I like a 10. You know, at least a 10% sample of your list and do run out side by side and then give it. You know, I would like to also give it. I give it 12 hours, you know, to look through like, how often people open 2012 to 24 hours before you then blast the winner to the remainder of the list

[00:48:01.36] spk_1:
for the other 90 to 95%. Yeah, okay. But you prefer 10% test.

[00:48:06.09] spk_0:
I mean, I would say you want again. Then like have a 5% getting a 5% right. 10% of your list, get a B, and then they get the winner to the remaining 90

[00:48:21.27] spk_1:
percent remaining. 90%? Yeah. All right. We got some time left. What? What? Haven’t asked about what? Haven’t you talked about that?

[00:48:26.37] spk_0:
You know, I would say, You know, I think there’s a lot of content in here. Maybe just sort of like a quick recap of sort of the Yeah, well,

[00:48:35.52] spk_1:
radio is jam packed with information that

[00:48:39.99] spk_0:
people like. Well, I’m talking. Well,

[00:48:41.54] spk_1:
they that’s podcast is ideal. Go back. Listen again.

[00:48:44.97] spk_0:
Listen again. You can always go back and

[00:48:47.10] spk_1:
take notes for your office to have discussions. Uh,

[00:48:54.91] spk_0:
tomorrow Tomorrow. It’s already remember September

[00:48:55.45] spk_1:
releasing this the week of September 28th

[00:48:58.33] spk_0:
grade. So fourth quarter is a week away. Yeah, I would say also, I was just pointing. Maybe a couple of resource is for people. If people are not familiar with the M N R benchmarks study that comes out every year and are seminar, so their website

[00:49:17.10] spk_1:
Hold on, hold on. Are you saying the letters m and r like Mike November Romeo or M

[00:49:26.17] spk_0:
and R and are

[00:49:26.84] spk_1:
thank you

[00:50:21.76] spk_0:
like Mike and Ross eso my NMR. But their website is m r s dot com, because it’s m and our Strategic Service’s, but it’s M R s s dot com. They have a benchmarks study that they put out every year. That is like a data playhouse, like they have. They get data from not just their clients. They put out these big, huge surveys and they bring in all this data and they analyze giving trends to the million degree, their charts and graphs and data and insights and all these things that you could go in. Look for your particular verticals. You can look for your list size. You can look for outcomes. They look at all sorts of factors along the giving spectrum and sort of say, here are basically industry trends across all these non profit. So if you’re looking for, you know, advice, like, what are other people seeing what air? You know, folks, you know, best practices that they’ve seen that great results. It is chock full of data in there. I mean, there are a million of these, like my favorite ones come from seminar. I think black would actually puts out a great um, it’s again like a giving guide. Neon serum has a great giving guide There, just lots of, um industry kind of stalwarts in the in the space that have these guys where you could go read and get information and sort of kind of, you know, put more arsenal into your I don’t like to use military or, you know, gun references, but it’s like putting more information into your tool belt. I’m saying, Great, I’ve got more tools. I’ve got more data and more thoughts about how I’m going to structure my end of your campaign to make it successful.

[00:51:14.27] spk_1:
Non neon C R m A ZX Well, as blackboard

[00:51:18.98] spk_0:
black bodies have one good ones

[00:51:21.34] spk_1:
s dot com

[00:51:28.06] spk_0:
like those are the three biggies. I would probably throw out there, um and really thought

[00:51:29.99] spk_1:
the platforms that you mentioned for email or and segmentation and personalization you mentioned mail chimp, Was it every action illuminate is that the

[00:51:54.27] spk_0:
41 illuminate illuminate engaging networks every action, you know, those were sort of the big ones that we have again. And also then I just mentioned neon neon is a great platform as well. Platform. So there are several, um, you know

[00:51:59.33] spk_1:
e take you off your Oh, no, you wrap up, but

[00:52:43.70] spk_0:
no, no, no. Those are good. I was gonna say that one’s r e just hammering home sort of again like that. The vulnerability and humanity and the messaging. I would say, if anything, just don’t use your standard messaging this year. That’s probably my biggest take away is really take a look at your messaging, your vulnerability, your positioning shiny impact being and that kind of, oh, bananas vulnerable self testing. Why you can at this point, um, make the time to do some testing. There’s nothing worse than also, then sitting out great messages and having them land on really kind of non high conversion landing pages. I guess the biggest thing I haven’t mentioned yet, which I’ll really throw it is mobile, mobile, mobile.

[00:52:52.30] spk_1:
Of course, it’s like it’s very you need to be mobile optimized by now,

[00:52:59.23] spk_0:
it bears repeating please. Almost. It’s like really start with your forms on a website on a phone, like something

[00:53:05.21] spk_1:
like 75% of emails or opened on a mobile device.

[00:53:08.41] spk_0:
At least I think that number every time I see one, it just keeps going

[00:53:12.38] spk_1:
going up. Maybe tonight

[00:54:54.34] spk_0:
eso your email and that landing page. Like those two pieces, I can’t stress enough because you’re gonna ask You’re gonna do video. Make sure that video, you know, everything is all former. Just test the heck out of everything like you really need to be like and as much as you can you can you use like, an email on acid to test on multiple platforms. So in multiple devices, because you know, email on acid as a tool that lets you as a non profit push your message and and those landing pages and, well, the emails on email and acid Google after my different operating systems. But a email on acid will show you what your email looks like on an iPhone 10 on iPhone six on an android, this on a galaxy, blah, blah, blah. And then you can say, Oh, because it looks amazing on your iPhone, but looks like garbage, you know, on the Samsung. Well, you know, you have thio look across all the devices and then you go Or are they reading this in Gmail? Are they reading this and outlook? Are they reading this and whatever So it’s email clients and vices. Let me tell you, that alone will keep you busy. Just testing on acid. Yeah. Email on acid. I mean, really, it’s crazy the amount of information that you see, and then you have to go back into the code and tweet like what has been quite a bit of this time. Like when you change your design, you change your layout, radio, you have to take it. You have to take into account the operating system and the device that somebody, the email client and then the device that somebody is looking because, um, it’s a crazy world there. That’s that’s probably the hardest part of making sure your emails look well. The landing pages are less taxing, but still take into account the operating system and the device.

[00:55:14.74] spk_1:
All right. Thank you. I wanna ask. I want to close by asking you what? What fun thing you have put together lately? You said you’d like to put together planning budgets. Ikea furniture. What have you done? Fun put together.

[00:55:20.44] spk_0:
I’m actually right now in the midst of redesigning my kitchen so that

[00:55:24.76] spk_1:
you have big contractors stuff going on.

[00:55:27.34] spk_0:
Well, I’m in the planning phase.

[00:55:29.32] spk_1:
Design you design. Okay, I’ve

[00:55:31.04] spk_0:
got a phase one right now where I’m gonna be heading to Ikea pretty soon and doing a pantry and sort of a built in area around my refrigerator. That’s my That’s my next one project and having answered, that’s my face one. So that’s just sort of blend a little bit with some of the existing kitchen before I can then carry that piece forwarding to the other cabinets and things like that.

[00:55:53.49] spk_1:
You ever looked to Container Store for organization stuff? Container store?

[00:55:58.94] spk_0:
I do love that. I kind of get lost in the madness of the container store because I love organizing, like in compartments and things like that. One of my favorite.

[00:56:08.21] spk_1:
Work it into your kitchen. I could door hanger or something.

[00:56:11.63] spk_0:
E I’ll see. Yes, it’s combination. If you have the E. K. F writes the structure and then in the container store gives you like all those storage options. But

[00:57:23.63] spk_1:
like all right, thank you very much. Jen. The company is that firefly partners dot com And she is, of course, at Jen at Firefly. Yeah, not Jenna T. Firefly. Next week, more from 20 NTC. Most likely if you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money changed more lives for a free demo and a free first month. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein It with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be

[00:57:27.33] spk_0:
great. Thank you, Thank you so much.

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[00:02:40.44] spk_1:
on welcome tony-martignetti profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Welcome to our first podcast only show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of in Texas itis if you inflamed me with the idea that you missed today’s show Donor surveys. You’ll make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard talk principles. Best practices and goal setting Crystal is with stars, Air ambulance and Christian. Is that beyond the bake sale? This is part of our 20 and TC coverage and people powered movements. This 20 NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Selena Stewart from League of Women Voters. US and Gloria Pan with mom’s rising on tony steak, too. Planned giving accelerator were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is donor surveys. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference and 10 made the excruciating decision to cancel the non profit technology conference. But we are continuing virtually. You’ll get just as much value. We don’t have to all be close to pick the brains of the expert speakers from From N 10. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Go to tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Crystal is manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance and Christian is founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the Bake Sale. Crystal Christian. Welcome. Welcome to non profit radio,

[00:02:44.19] spk_2:
tony.

[00:02:45.00] spk_0:
Thanks, tony. Great to be here.

[00:02:46.42] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure to have both of you. You are both in ah, in Canada. Crystal. You are in Alberta and Christian. Remind me where you are.

[00:02:55.54] spk_0:
I’m in Ah, beautiful, Sunny Ottawa, Ontario.

[00:03:00.02] spk_1:
Ottawa. No other capital? Yes, in

[00:03:01.23] spk_0:
your nation’s capital. Not be not be disputed with Toronto. Who likes to think that the capital

[00:03:29.66] spk_1:
I know well and many Americans think it’s either Montreal with Toronto? Yes, but, uh, Ottawa Capital. All right. I’m glad to know that you’re both well and safe. Um, and glad to have you both with us. Thanks. Um, we’re talking about donor surveys. Your your NTC topic is ah, Dorner surveys your untapped data goldmine Crystal. Why are surveys a data goldmine?

[00:03:45.11] spk_2:
Well, we have the fortunate launching a survey. We’ve never done one prior to 2016. And when we did it, we were amazed at what we found. So we learned a lot about our donors. Education preferences. We made money, like, usually made that on that. And I’ll talk about. We actually ended up learning a lot about I’m getting prospects. And turns out that there were a lot of donors that we had no idea name Justin there will ever interested in the will. So there was a lot of revenue like hidden revenue that we were finally getting access to you. So that’s are where that line is moving your wits, but it’s preparing to you.

[00:04:23.61] spk_1:
Interesting. I’m looking forward to drilling into that more because I didn’t plan to giving fundraising as a consultant on sometimes asked by clients about doing surveys. So I’m interested in what you’re doing as well. Um, and and you’re getting gifts. You said you’ve made money back from them. So people do send you gifts of cash along with their surveys.

[00:04:53.69] spk_2:
Yes. Like this year we get. Because last year, 2019 are stars. Allies there, maybe $300,000 And that all the you people have been found for giving what? We’re looking at dollars. So it’s you cannot do a survey to seem like you. Point?

[00:04:54.30] spk_1:
Yeah. Did you say billions? With a B?

[00:04:57.21] spk_2:
No millions and

[00:05:08.78] spk_1:
millions. Okay, the audio is not perfect, so it almost sounded billions. So I want to be sure, because I’m listeners have the same question. Okay, Millions, millions is still very, very good. Um, Christian? Anything you want to head to about Why these air Ah, such a gold mine for non profits.

[00:05:14.81] spk_0:
I mean, besides the fact that you’re using data, obviously, to reinforce certain decisions and Teoh highlight certain wealth elements, I would say in terms of your sponsorship potential, I know a lot of organizations are looking more so into the corporate sponsorship corporate engagement side of things. And I think with your donor surveys, you could really reveal a lot around where people are working there levels in terms of positions within a certain company or organization. And that can lead you down some interesting pass from a corporate sponsorship perspective.

[00:06:05.94] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, your, um your description of the workshop said that make the most of the donors you already have. And it sounds like you both obviously are going there. Is there anything you want to add about sussing out the value that’s in your that you don’t know? You have among your current donors?

[00:06:31.20] spk_2:
Well, from our perspective, like it’s given us an opportunity to get to know our donors better in terms of what? What are they actually interested in learning about the organization or why are they choosing given that allows us to tailor messages, just be a lot more personal with them and act like we really know that was supposed to them just being a number. This is an opportunity to really cultivate that relationship and just continue bring them on war.

[00:06:41.08] spk_1:
Okay, um, is most of your content in the workshop around as practices for surveys? Is that what we’re gonna be exploring? Mostly

[00:07:05.94] spk_2:
Christian feel free to jump in and say that we were looking a lot of fast. Her best practice, then also, case studies. People would have some tangible examples how to actually launch one with consider. And what would actually need to do once they got

[00:07:24.46] spk_1:
OK? All right, well, let’s, um let’s start with, Like, where? Where do you get started? Who, Who who were the best people to send surveys to our What types of information are are you finding our most responded to or what types of questions are most responded to? How can you help us sort of frame? Ah ah, an outline of what we were to get started.

[00:07:55.62] spk_2:
Well, Christian and I talked a lot about building the proper spoke of your surveys of figuring out. Why exactly are you? What do you try to find out? And once, you kind of I guess you were down exactly what you’re trying to learn, what you’re trying to cheat, That sort of helping bigger. You need to actually reach up to what? The audience. You need to know that before.

[00:08:06.93] spk_1:
Okay, So, starting with your goals, what was the purpose of the darn thing? Yes. Okay. Okay. Um Christian. You want to jump in around, you know it’s starting to get this process started.

[00:08:15.29] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as crystal, I were kind of building this piece at whether you’re talking about more of a philanthropic, focus for your surveying or whether you’re talking about more of a corporate sponsorship focus of it. You only want to ask yourself, I never different questions before you even get going things around. What do you ultimately want to know about your donor base? Or about this particular audience population that you’re ultimately looking for? More information on? Why are you doing this in the first place? Is, Is this more responsive? Isn’t it more of a proactive type surveyed that explore new avenues? Would you ultimately need to know? I think that’s an important element to focus on Is not asking everything but asking the right things? Who do you need to ask? So who is the actual population that you’re targeting at the end of the day? What would you do with the information? So don’t just collect information for information, say not that that’s not important. But what’s the actual actionable pieces for that? And how are you gonna protect that information? I think with today’s sensitivities around around data privacy, it’s really important for charities and nonprofits to Stuart that data as they would any type of gift that they ultimately get.

[00:09:27.71] spk_1:
Yeah, in terms of the data stewardship that that may constrain what you asked as well, because now you have, ah, conceivably a higher level of security that you need to maintain

[00:09:32.60] spk_0:
absolutely tony and even just in terms of sensitivities, of phrasing, certain questions, and that it’s important for you to think about how you phrase certain things and how intimate your ultimately getting. And if you do get that intimate, like you said, how do you protect that data? But also, what’s the purpose for collecting that particular piece of data side from? Well, it might be a nice toe have someday, instead of this actually contributes towards our bottom line.

[00:10:00.13] spk_1:
You’re doing surveys around corporate sponsorship, right? That’s the example you mentioned. So you’re getting to know where people work so that you might use that information for potential sponsorships.

[00:11:02.31] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, when you look at sponsorship, ultimately it it’s very much a business transaction. If you look at how Forbes just define sponsorship. It’s very much the cash and in kind fee paid to a property, a property being whether it’s ah terrible run or some type of adventure conference in this case, um, in return for access to the exploitable commercial potential associate without property. So anything of any other type of exploitable commercial potential, which is the most buzzer and definition you possibly could. If you think of any type of advertising medium, whether it’s TV, radio print, you want to know ultimately cruising your audience. And one of the best and most effective ways to do that is to conduct some type of survey to really tease out who are some of your very specific or niche audiences. Cannabis a niche. So it’s a bit of a cringe for for us up here in the North. But, uh, having a survey to really tease out who are who’s in your audience. And some of the more behavioral psychographic demographic features of that audience are particularly important, toe have to really make a compelling case toe corporations looking to use sponsorship with your organization,

[00:11:20.18] spk_1:
the, um what four matter using Christian crystal, I’m gonna ask you the same thing shortly. What? How are these offered to people?

[00:11:28.33] spk_0:
Yeah, so we so in the experience of I’ve high, we usually use ah surveymonkey survey of some kind that allows for a lot of cross top analysis to be able to say that people who are in between the ages of 18 and 29 this particular set of income, they have these particular purchase patterns. They care about your cause, toe ends degree. They, um, are engaged with your cause or with your property and whether it’s through social media or through certain print advertisements or whatever that might be. And we usually collect around 30 plus data points on all of those on all those elements, ranging from again behavioral to the demographic to psychographic Teoh. Some very pointed, specific questions around the relationship between your cause and the affinity for a certain corporation based on that based on not caring for that cause.

[00:12:39.89] spk_1:
Yeah. So you said collecting around 30 data points, does that? Does that mean a survey would have that many questions? Absolutely. Okay, now I’ve heard from guests in the past. May have even been ntc guests. Not this year, but, you know, the optimal number of questions for surveys like five or six or so and people bailout beyond that point.

[00:13:58.37] spk_0:
Yeah, and and usually before I had actually sent out a survey of that magnitude, I would agree with you. Tony and I agree with most. I think that the important differentiators one is that you frame it as it’s very much for improving the relationships and the ability for the cause properties, whether that’s your run, your gala, whatever that might be to raise money and usually the audience that you’re setting. That, too, is very receptive to that. I think you want to frame it also as your only collecting the most important of information. And you’re also looking at ah again like you’re incentivizing in some way, shape or form. So usually when you tailor it with some type of incentive Buta $50 gift card opportunity Teoh win something like that. Usually people a lot more or a lot more receptive. And in the time that we’ve done surveys, whether it’s in my my past days, consulting in the space or now doing a lot of work with charities nonprofits, we sent it to tens of thousands of respondents and get a pretty a pretty strong response rate and a really nominal, if negligible, amount of an unsubscribe rates. So people are not un subscribing from getting those questions, and in fact, they’re answering a lot of them and an important element, as well as making them optional. So not forcing people to house to fill out certain pieces but giving them the freedom to answer whatever questions they feel compelled to. But when you’re doing it for the cause, people are pretty are pretty compelled to respond to those states of questions.

[00:14:01.77] spk_1:
Okay, Crystal, how about you? What? What format are your service offered in?

[00:14:31.04] spk_2:
Did you both offline and online? So our donor base tends to skew a little bit older, though for us, a physical mailing is absolutely I’m only deals online, burgeon for, I guess, other parts of our donor base that are different. The graphical, just based on that person’s preference, is giving them that opportunity. But what we did find is that in terms of our offline responses, we had a lower was off rate of responses to the survey, but exponentially more donations coming through offline as online and then for online responses of the online certainly had a lot more responses to be online. Survey. There are fewer donations, so I found that there was an inverse relationship there about that very thing.

[00:15:41.08] spk_1:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness This is still a front burner issue. You have got to get your loan forgiveness application in. Wegner has the info you need. Their latest free wagon are explains the state of P P P Loan forgiveness. What is forgivable? What documentation do you need? How to work with your lender? Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource Is and recorded events. Now back to donor surveys with Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Do you, ah, subscribe to the same opinion about the length that that could be up to 30 questions? In a survey, a ZX Christian was saying,

[00:16:17.66] spk_2:
We personally have a practice of you tiki bars between five and 10 questions. And sometimes we even Taylor that we know that some of these interested in particular programs we might take out a certain question. But in something else related specifically to them, for their isn’t variability in the surveys, but generally quite short, but I do agree with Christian for sure in terms of really framing the purpose of the survey and you to the questions around this is the whole purpose of this is to build a relationship with them and better serve them and get to know them better. And I think that really prince, And then you also

[00:16:23.41] spk_1:
just gonna ask about incentivizing, Okay? Something similar, Like drawing for a gift card. Something like that.

[00:16:33.91] spk_2:
Yeah. We get a star’s prize package. We wanted to do something about these decisions. You couldn’t get something but elsewhere. So yeah, way start for merchandise. So that’s

[00:17:18.04] spk_1:
okay. I’m gonna thank Christian for not having a good, uh, good video appearance because, you know, I’ve done 10 of these today, and they’re all gonna be all the video’s gonna be preserved. Except this one. Because Christian, um, as a very extreme background is really just a silhouette ahead with headphones. Really? Little I can see. But I’m grateful because my background just fell. I have a little tony, I have a tony-martignetti. You watched other of these videos which you’re gonna be available. This tony-martignetti non profit radio. So the easel you know, what’s that for? A form core, you know, sign. And it was behind me. It was, and it just fell while Crystal was talking. So thank you, Christian.

[00:17:29.66] spk_0:
It was just so surprised that you could ask 30 questions on a survey and get some type of degree of response.

[00:17:38.43] spk_1:
Only it shook my house that I’m

[00:17:40.42] spk_0:
30 data points. What madness is this? I’m

[00:17:58.70] spk_1:
so a gas man. Yes. And then also the fact that you the two of you disagree. Um, all right, so but I’m shouting myself, calling myself out as having a flimsy background lasted through. And that’s through, like, seven hours of this. I

[00:17:58.85] spk_0:
love it. Also, we don’t necessarily disagree, but I think different surveys serve their different purposes. So I agree with Crystal that in that particular case, you only need descends. One that has 5 to 10 questions rise in this case, your public sending it to in a slot strip case, you’re probably sending it to a larger population of people. And you only need a certain amount of people to fill it out.

[00:18:18.73] spk_1:
Crystal, I had asked you, and you probably answered, but I got distracted by my collapsing background. What? What kinds of incentives do you offer?

[00:18:40.21] spk_2:
We offer stars prize pack. So it’s stars over two nights that we want to talk or something a little bit different other than my gift card that they could get through any other. Yeah, it’s so different Angle

[00:19:00.18] spk_1:
personalized two stars. Okay, Okay, Um, now, was yours specifically Ah, planned giving survey, or did you just have a couple of planned giving questions? And that’s where you discovered this data goldmine of future gift. And all the wheels that you found out that you’re in was

[00:19:27.84] spk_2:
it was it was not specific to plan giving, so it was more just a general survey. And then we did have a question about plan giving and that we were stunned. But subsequent years we kept asking mad, and right now we’re sort of in the middle of doing that whole. I’m giving strategy and trying to really build that out. Now that we know that there is this whole core people that are interested in this. So it’s really opened up the water opportunities President organization after all.

[00:19:43.23] spk_1:
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. All right. So you learned from the first time this is you’re in a lot more estates than you had. Any idea? Um, let’s let’s talk about some more good practices for surveys. Crystal, is there something you can one of two things you want to recommend and then we’ll come toe go back to Christian.

[00:19:53.81] spk_2:
Yeah, One of my major things is that if you’ve been asked a question, you have to know where you’re going to do with that data after the fact that you were people just ask the question to ask a question for whatever reason. But then they don’t action. Anything out of it to me is very important that if our donors are gonna spend the time actually breathe through your survey, respond, mail it in or submitted online, that we actually do something that that information is the weather bats killer. It’s a messaging or changing communication preferences or whatever it is you’re asking us to do, you were tell has I think that’s so important that you have to have all a plan once these losses come back. And what are we gonna do with them? Who was going to take action? How are we gonna reason with this? How are we going to use information.

[00:21:15.77] spk_1:
I think of date of birth is as a good example of that. If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna develop a plan to congratulate someone for their birth on their birthday each year, then that could be a valuable data point. Um, but if you just, you know, if you’re just asking because you you don’t have a purpose, you just interested in what their ages? For some vague reason, then there’s no there’s no value in asking. And if it is just to follow up, if it’s just to know their you know when you want to send a card, maybe you don’t need the year. Maybe just need the day in the month. But if there’s value to your database for knowing their age and you would ask for a year

[00:21:23.72] spk_2:
exactly how he felt down, what do we need to know? I really asking

[00:21:30.90] spk_1:
why, Kristen, you have a best practice you want to share.

[00:21:33.84] spk_0:
Yeah, I would say Consider the not just the population size that you’re not just the population that you’re serving, but also the representative makeup. So if you know that your database is predominantly on more, the senior side of things, but you’re getting a disproportion amount of more individuals who are on the younger side of things. In terms of respondents, that’s something important that you have to take into account. So the makeup of the actual population is is more important. I would argue that the amount of responses you could get a crazy amount of responses. But if it doesn’t represent the population that you’re serving and that who make up your donors, it’s it’s not gonna be valuable dated to you. I remember one time we had a ZX instance for an organization wanted Teoh do a survey for sponsor purposes, and in other cases, it’s been from or donor specific, like, I will just put it on on Facebook or Twitter or something like that. It’s not necessarily your population is not necessarily the group that you’re looking that you’re actively engaged with a fundraising perspective. You get information to the otherwise and then obviously reflect on that and use that. But be really clear about the breakdown that you need to have in order to make the information, actually, representative of the rest of your database,

[00:22:47.24] spk_1:
Um, what kind of response rates what’s what’s a decent response rate to, ah to a survey?

[00:23:06.51] spk_0:
I think it depends what type of server you’re sending. I will let Crystal speak to this more, but I’d say if it’s philanthropic. Eikenberry on the sponsorship side of things you’re looking for a response rate that coincides with the 95% confidence interval with a 5% margin of error. Let’s get market data to calculate that there’s a bunch of big captain complicated formulas that we probably have all repressed from our time in. In statistics Citizen that in university there’s ah company called Surveymonkey that actually has a calculator for its. If you go to the Surveymonkey website, you can actually just plug in a what the sample side of what the actual size of the database you’re sending into. And you can plug in what confidence interval that you want. And then what margin of error that you’d like, and it will pump out a number of a minimum that you need to have. I would say that’s a good starting point. But again, as I talked about before, make sure you have the representative break up breakdown of, ah, who’s actually within your audience reflected in the survey results and don’t have it disproportionately skewed towards a particular demographic that might be just more inclined. Teoh, respond to surveys.

[00:24:25.04] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, Crystal, Anything you want to add about the confidence, it’s different, but yeah, I withdraw that. That doesn’t make sense for you because you’re doing individual philanthropic surveys. So each response you get is valuable. You find out that someone is interested in planned giving already, has you in their will. That one response has has great value. Yes. Okay.

[00:24:39.74] spk_2:
Our purpose of our surveys a little bit different. We don’t worry so much about that, but I actually meeting how like that in your mind. Reaching out to you?

[00:24:44.24] spk_1:
What? What kind of response rate to use for the crystal is still you know, these things? Things take time and you’re doing Some of them are offline. So there’s postage and printing, et cetera. What kind of response rate do you consider good for? For a NH effort like that

[00:25:40.43] spk_2:
in terms of financial reform? Three. So don’t verify that for us, a response to the survey doesn’t necessarily mean a gift, and it gets to the survey, doesn’t necessarily mean that they responded to a number. Yes, we usually eight or 86%. But in terms of actual response to the survey, we’ve seen his lower 2% for the highest 7% a year of channel. So either way, like we have, quite like we have quite a large database. So any of you to be So get this information, your father.

[00:25:42.89] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, for your online surveys. Crystal, are you using surveymonkey? Also, did you say

[00:25:48.80] spk_2:
use a couple leased surveymonkey last year? It is very user friendly. What? I would caution people are always print about whatever price package designed for because, like you discussed for our surveys a big focuses financial tournament. So we needed to price plan that involved being able to redirect right from surveymonkey page to our donation form. So you had to be really mindful things like that. So in some of the basic packages, they don’t write redirect donation form in that you can’t Do you have a really negatively impact your

[00:26:27.94] spk_1:
Is there another online tool that you like? Also you?

[00:26:52.64] spk_2:
I used Teoh from cold response. Ter. We’ve there be start a sweetener somewhere in Europe, and they were very good, though there are some limitations is well with them in terms of what the packages offer. But bring out we’re using serving Look, you know what was sending out like, for example, looking at surveys. This any surveymonkey already of our to be rich 8th 1 So that’s what we’re using.

[00:26:56.04] spk_1:
Okay, how about you, Christian? Is there another one besides Surveymonkey that you could recommend?

[00:27:22.01] spk_0:
I I think it just depends on what you’re looking for. A tony. So if you’re looking for a lot of, let’s say, more qualitative answers, I’d say even a Google form would would be more than would be more than acceptable. It really just depends on what functionality want to get out of. I used every monkey pretty religiously, just cause it’s like Crystal said. It’s very user friendly. It has the functionality that I need, and it’s and it’s relatively reasonable in terms of in terms of price point for what you get. It’s also gonna depend, and it’s up to you to do due diligence on what types of functionality you need. You need to integrate with your database for other software. Do you need certain functionality. Do you actually know how to use a lot of those things? Is there gonna be support and again, like what? What are they going to do with your data? Like, do they have access to your data? Whether it’s metadata or otherwise, Are there other rules of jurisdictions you have to consider with that data privacy? So I use every monkey by lots of considerations to make.

[00:28:04.85] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. Thank you. And Kristen wanted to, uh why don’t you lead us out with some Take us out with some, I guess. Motivation. Closing thoughts like to end with?

[00:28:05.97] spk_0:
Absolutely, I would say from a sponsor perspective, whether you’re a large organization or small organization, the riches during the niches. So to do good sponsorship, it requires good data, and it requires those 30 plus data points. But whether you’re a big group or a small group, you can compete at the same scale, especially with the amount of money that’s being spent on cost sponsorship over $2 million a worldwide, which is no small amount of money. That’s that you can get access you whether you’re $100,000 a year, order a $1,000,000 plus requires good data. So make sure you’re collecting good data. Make sure you’re clear on what do you want to use your information for? And, uh, not just the diligent in ah, making training step, but the data is actually protected.

[00:28:50.64] spk_1:
Okay, um, I was I was I was gonna let Christian end, But since the two of you have such divergent purposes, which is fabulous for it’s great for a discussion Divergent purposes around your surveys. Crystal, why don’t you take us out on the on the filling topic? The individual donor side?

[00:29:51.64] spk_2:
Yes. So play for discussing. Don’t be afraid to fundraise just because survey doesn’t mean that you can’t make money off of it. People are supporting you enough that they’re willing to fill out the remainder onto you. They may be going to donators alone, and then I’ll help without it said you have to know why you do what you do with that information. It’s really important in terms of respecting your door time and back. That there giving you this information, you need to be able to use it and sort properly and safely. And then last may I just say please, please please test your survey before you actually sending out Senator One other part fans are other people that are not in the midst of building the surveys that you can find out. You phrase things appropriately. You’re actually wanting what you want to functionality is appropriate. I think that’s just so we don’t have one chance of finding out. So just make sure that

[00:30:01.59] spk_1:
okay, thank you very much. That’s Crystal Mahan, manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance. And with her is Christian Rubber Yard founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the bake sale crystals in Alberta. And ah, I’m sorry, Crystal. Did I just say Crystal? Yeah.

[00:30:21.02] spk_2:
You know, yesterday

[00:30:23.48] spk_1:
I say, Chris Christie, Mr Just all I know is in Alberta,

[00:30:25.30] spk_0:
you know, we don’t make it easy on your tony

[00:30:36.35] spk_1:
on, and I got through 25 minutes. So well, and I know it’s a lackluster host. I’m sorry. This is stuck with in the Christians in the capital city of Ottawa. Thank you so much, Christian Crystal. Thank you very

[00:30:40.72] spk_0:
much. Thanks, tony.

[00:33:31.93] spk_1:
Thanks to you for being with joining martignetti non profit radio coverage off 20 NTC, the non profit technology conference Responsive at the conference by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain will get you a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us now. Time for Tony’s Take two. I am still very proud to announce the launch of planned giving accelerator. This is a yearlong membership community that is going to get your planned giving program started. I’m going to give you exclusive webinars Exclusive podcasts. Yes, beyond tony-martignetti non profit radio, there’s gonna be the exclusive podcast for accelerator members. Small group asked me anything. Sessions over Zoom I’ll have Resource is like templates and checklists. All of this is to get your planned giving program started. You’ll join for a year. I will keep you filled with exclusive content, and you will get your program started. I promise I will make planned giving easy, accessible and affordable. You can check out all the information at planned giving accelerator dot com. If you may not be quite ready for membership, you don’t want to look at that quite yet. You just want to dip your toes in the water. I have a free how to guide about getting your planned giving program started to see a theme. Here, you see, you see the consistency running through here. This is not This is not accidental. Please, please the free how to guide you Download that also at planned giving accelerator dot com, that is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for people powered movements. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference. Of course, the conference was canceled, but we are persevering. Virtually sponsored. A 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. Selena is senior director of advocacy and litigation at League of Women Voters. US. And Gloria is vice president for member engagement at Mom’s Rising Celina. Gloria. Welcome. Hello. I’m glad we were able to put this virtually. It’s good to see both of you. Um and I’m glad to know that you each well and safe and in either D. C or just outside D. C. Selena, you’re in d. C and Gloria. Where you outside Washington Gloria

[00:33:46.60] spk_4:
I am actually near Dulles Airport. So, you know, some people commute from here, but because Mom’s rising is a virtual organization, I don’t. And so when people ask me for lunch, I’m always like, Okay, it takes a little bit more planning. I have to bend. I have to get my body injustices.

[00:34:18.24] spk_1:
Okay, Um, you’re NTC Topic is a revolution is coming. Top tactics, build people powered movements. Um, Selena, would you get us started with this? What? What was the need for the session?

[00:35:27.88] spk_3:
Well, I think, um, I think one of the things is right now it’s all about people power. You know, there’s everything is so politicized right now, and I think that there is often a conversation about how people are involved with what government actually represents or what the government is representing. So I think that that’s really, really important. Um, we also saw, like, a 2018 mawr voter turnout, more voters turning out to vote and things like that. So I think that that also is a part of us people conversation like what is compelling people to participate, even mawr, or at a greater extent in their democracy. But all of these things kind of work together to figure out. Not only do we have people engaged now, but what is important. What just community is more people become engaged. How does how does our definition of our community and communities in general changes? More people are included and participating all of those things. So I think that we’re at a very interesting and crucial moment in time. And so people powered and people involved movement. It’s it’s, I think it’s always happen. But it’s just a coin phrase. I think that’s especially prevalent right now.

[00:35:56.69] spk_1:
Good, Gloria, even though participation is is very high, were also largely polarized. So how do we overcome the opposite ends of the spectrum to tryto bring people together and and organize?

[00:36:01.33] spk_4:
Are you talking about everyone or are you talking about voters?

[00:36:17.39] spk_1:
Uh, well, I’m talking about the country. I don’t know. I don’t know whether I don’t know where the people are voting, but I’m talking about our political polarization. I don’t know if they’re necessarily voting. I

[00:36:20.97] spk_3:
I talked about voting, so I probably threw it off a little bit. Glory. They act like I’m asking for

[00:37:19.89] spk_4:
complication only because, like some of the most talented and I think unifying on politicians in recent memory. For example, Barack Obama did not succeed in unifying all of us, right? So there are some segments of our citizenry that will just not do it. We will not be able to come together with them. But I think that for, um, people who really do want the best for our country and who are open minded enough, Teoh want to hear from other people who have different, you know, slightly different ways of looking at the world. It is possible to do it, and that goes back to what Selena was saying about people powered movements. I think that one of the reasons why that’s become more more of a catchphrase is that you know, we are in an era of information overload. We are in an era of polarization and not believing everything that we’re seeing on the Internet and in the news. And so being able to actually really connect with people on the ground, in person, over the phone, but directly and not going through the filter of social media or news movements is it’s increasingly important, and that will be one of the main channels for us to unify as many people as possible.

[00:38:16.42] spk_1:
So we’re talking about creating these both online and offline, right? Um, people powered people, centred movements. Um, how, Gloria, how do we want nonprofits to think about or what we need to think about in terms of doing this, organizing, creating these these movements,

[00:39:11.07] spk_4:
I’m First of all, it’s about inclusivity. Okay, So, um, at least from where we set Mom’s rising and me speaking on behalf of Monster Rising right now, we want to make sure that whatever we do and if it’s the most people and harms no one at all, if possible. So that’s one part of it. How we speak, how we communicate to make sure that what we’re speaking and how we communicate does not reinforce add stereotypes that creates divisions. Okay, that’s one way, another way, not way. But another thing to consider are also the tools that we’re using. Are we using your people are on different kinds of communication tools. Some people only do Facebook. Other people only do on email on dhe. There also is like text messaging there. All of these new community communications goes towards coming on and being on top of the different tools. Superb, warden, Because we need to meet people where they are. Um, because you’re just a couple of thoughts.

[00:39:36.49] spk_1:
Okay. Um so sorry, Selina. So we’re talking about diversity equity inclusion. Let’s drill down into a little bit of, like, what do we What do we need to do around our communications that is more equitable and non harming?

[00:39:57.72] spk_3:
So I think that’s an important question of us. Definitely something that has been injured in the leaks work over the last, I would say five years, but more intentionally over the last two. I’m sorry. I

[00:40:01.52] spk_1:
mean, he’s sorry. Whose work?

[00:42:09.00] spk_3:
The league. I’m sorry. I always refer to the League of Women Voters with us. Okay. Colleagues were led. Sorry. Boats that are full title is just too long for me to keep saying so. I just prefer to see Oh, I got you know, d I is very, very important for us. You know, our organization has historically been older white women. We’ve also always had members of color. But I don’t know that they were always at the forefront. So for us, our work is really centered in two questions and everything that we’re doing, who’s at the table and who should be at the table who’s missing. So I think starting all of our conversation in the efforts that we’re doing with those two questions allows us to center on our work in diversity, equity inclusion and also use our power as, um, people who have had access to legislator stakeholders, et cetera. How did we use our power and in a way that allows access of inclusivity for more people. So I think that that is really important and something that DEA diversity and inclusion work. It’s hard just versus It’s not easy, you know it. It gets very uncomfortable a lot of times when you’re talking about privilege, patriarchy and all of the talk about as it relates to d I. But it’s so important to get comfortable being uncomfortable and having these conversations that the only way I think that we can start to build a bridge towards unifying Um, CA music is at the end of the day, we may be politically, but at the end of the day, we all share many of the very same values which is historically united this country. Like right now we’re in the midst of the Corona virus. The Corona virus doesn’t care where the Republican Democrat black, white, female male does. It doesn’t matter. I’m at the end of the day, we all have to make sure that we’re doing what we can to be safe as individuals. But also our actions greatly impact the people around us. So it’s more of a It’s more of a community mindset that’s required or to tap this down. So I know that that’s like a little offset. All shoot from what we’re talking about. But I think it all placed together in some way, shape or form.

[00:42:30.65] spk_1:
Okay, um, Gloria about for moms rising. And how do you ensure that your communications are equitable on dhe? Non harmful?

[00:43:35.32] spk_4:
Well, Mom’s Rising has very intentionally built an organization that tries to bring different voices to the table. We are intersectional and we are multi issue, and so from our staff were very bad person, many, many different ways, and from the way that we choose which issues to work on, we also take into consideration which these are being impacted and how we communicate about those and then the way that we campaign is that our campaigns are always overlap. And so there is different people within the organization as well as a partner policy partners from different issue areas. They help us that our issues and the way that we communicate with them to make sure that you know you are we’re not communicating in a way that that that excludes communities, reinforces bad stereotype pipes and raises red flags, make make, make people feel bad ways that we don’t understand because of where we individuals. Campaigners. No. So everything we do is very thoroughly betters through different filters.

[00:43:48.70] spk_1:
Okay, so you re vetting. Yeah, please. Yeah, so, you know,

[00:44:55.97] spk_3:
I totally agree with what glorious said. I think that’s really important because the league is also multi issue and kind of has that you have to compete when you multiple issues. You sometimes have toe think a little differently about how you present yourself on each issue in orderto not negatively impact the whole set of what you’re trying to accomplish. And so for us and the communication speaks, I’m expressly is thinking about whether it’s appropriate who’s the appropriate messenger when we’re communicating so Is it appropriate for the league to be a leader in this space, or do we need to take a step back and be a supporter? So I think that’s one of the things that’s very important for us. Communication wise is we’re figuring out what is what space are we gonna take up in the communication in space and how we’re gonna communicate this issue and then the other pieces Who’s talking? Who is the person that we’re putting in front actually speak about a particular issue and is, Is that the right person? And are they speaking from the lens that’s most appropriate for that particular issue that’s gonna be impacted most as a result of what you’re saying or doing? So I think that’s very important. With Gloria lifted up

[00:46:14.78] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships, the world runs on them. We know this turn to is led by former journalists, so you’re going to get their help building relationships with journalists. They’ve been there, they know how to do it. They know what the pitfalls are and they know how to do it wrong so they will steer you to the right way to build relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field. They specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got but loads more time for people powered movements with Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. How do you manage the conflicting issues? If you know, I guess it’s because there are issues where you have a large constituency on one side of one issue. But something else may seem contrary to that to that large constituency. A different issue that you’re taking a stand on Is that Is that my understanding? Right when you say, you know, potential issue conflict?

[00:46:51.33] spk_3:
Well, when you have a 500,000 members and supporters and you’re in every congressional district, everybody can agree on on how to approach an issue. But what grounds? The league is our mission. Our mission is to empower voters and democracy. Power people defend democracy. So I think as long as you stay rooted in what your chin values statement is that you can find some reconciliation across, you know the most seemingly divergent issues Okay,

[00:46:58.68] spk_1:
climate change That I think would probably be a good example. I was just

[00:47:11.43] spk_4:
I was I was gonna add, okay, that just to step back a little bit. The one thing that I am super super proud of, um, is that a toll east for progressives? I think that we’re actually pretty consistent in about our agreement on your shoes. We may have different levels of intensity and what we agree with, but I think they’re very few conflicts. We may not agree on how to get somewhere, but we all agree on where we want to go. Okay, So in that way, I rather feel, at least from Mom’s rising standpoint, we rarely get. I can’t even think of a single instance where we have conflicts because we’re not agreeing with each other or with policy partners on the most important thing where we’re heading.

[00:47:45.75] spk_3:
So I think that’s a difference, because are the league is it’s not left or right leaning were kind of way. We have members who are both conservative and liberal. Yeah, have some of that conflict more in that. But I think you’re absolutely right. Do we all want the same things and a healthier, more vibrant democracy. Absolutely. So you have to find some common ground in that space. But we definitely have members who are who want to handle things. One way, versus the other. We have to find common ground.

[00:49:02.57] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s the challenge. I was trying to get it. Yeah, okay. It helps. At least it helps me to think of an example like climate change. You know, some. There are some people who don’t even believe that it’s it’s human impacted. And there are others who think, where decades behind and in our inaction Teoh Teoh, reverse the effects of human induced climate change. So, um, it’s Ah, that’s that’s quite a challenge. Really. So, um Okay, Well, where else? Well, should we go with these people? Powered movement ideas? You you, you to spend a lot more time studying this. So what else should we be talking about? That we haven’t yet. I

[00:49:02.65] spk_4:
would actually love to hear from Selena how the league is dealing with. I’m doing your work remotely.

[00:49:10.59] spk_3:
You guys are already virtual. This is like, No, no sweat for you guys, right? Well, you know,

[00:49:37.30] spk_4:
I mean, we do have, you know, our plans range from virtually all the way down to the grassroots. Right? And I think especially for organizations like your Selena, we share the, um, the common goal this year of border engagements. I am very sorry I opened the door. Family a letter out. I’m

[00:49:43.14] spk_3:
very sorry. Okay.

[00:49:45.25] spk_1:
All right. So, you know, um, terms of remote working, but yeah, but how it relates to this topic of people power.

[00:50:59.86] spk_3:
Yeah. So I think that’s really, really important. We’re definitely so it is one thing to convert toe er teleworking, right? That’s one thing. But when your work is so much advocacy, um, and especially the leaders on the ground who are doing voter registration, which requires you to be on the ground talking to people, you know, that has shifted our work. So one of the examples that we have because we have our people power fair mass campaign, which is basically trying to get redistricting reform for across the country and a positive waste that we don’t have another situation like we had in North Carolina where you’re from, tell me and also and Maryland subs we wanna we wanna make sure that you know people are represented appropriately, but a lot of the states that were working in they have a signature collection campaigns going on right now. So how do you do signature collection when you can’t actually be within three or six feet of people? So now many of our leaks air converting to digital signatures and going through their legislator to make those adjustments that they can still collect signatures and meet that need, et cetera, Our love. We have a lobby core, which is 21 volunteers that goes to the hill every month. Obviously, with the hill being also teleworking, it created what we thought might be a barrier. But now our lobbies are doing virtual coffee meetings on Zoom just like this and having those conversations with legislators, legislative staff and all of those things. So I think that the Corona virus has forced us to do our work in a different way. But it’s also being great to innovate and be creative and do the work that people love just in a different way. So we it’s not perfect. I don’t even want to make you think that this is perfect because it’s definitely not. But I think that there’s a lot of positive energy about doing our work and finding ways to do our work in different ways.

[00:52:27.38] spk_1:
Which, okay, is thinking creatively. I for our for our listeners. And I don’t want to focus just on Mom’s rising and legal women voters us. I want them to recognize how what we’re talking about can be applied by them, how they they, what they need to go back to their CEOs or whatever vice presidents wegner And what kind of like discussion items they need to be putting forward at the organization is not now thinking about in terms of, you know, again, people power revolution is coming. Yeah, you know how how how can our listeners helped create it?

[00:53:21.55] spk_3:
I think just becoming involved, like when you’re talking about people powered anything, it’s really about base building. And for me, the goals of base base building are always to grow. A base of volunteers who have a shared value of some sort and you’re coming together in orderto makes the progressive movement on that. It’s also about leadership, development, communities and constituency who turn out who are players in this issue or what have you and then putting issues to the forefront. So I think that wherever you is, what do you value? What’s important to you? You could be a simple as Hey, there’s a pothole, my street that has been fixed in the last year. Can we come together as a community and really talk with our local election officials about making sure our streets are in a position that’s not gonna record cars or have someone get endangered in some way? So I think it comes down to, as on an individual level, what is important to you. What do you value and finding and connecting with those people? Also, that you something similar? And what do you want to change? What is it that you’re trying to change or that would make your life better? And who were the people who can support you in getting that done?

[00:53:55.15] spk_1:
That’s consistent with what you said down an organization level to the same. You know what? The core values, that’s what that’s what drives all the work on, brings people together finding that commonality around, whether it’s the pothole in the street and the individual level.

[00:54:01.45] spk_3:
Whoever whatever. Here, whatever.

[00:54:08.59] spk_1:
Jim Yeah, Gloria, What? What’s your advice for how people can contribute to this revolution.

[00:55:16.50] spk_4:
Um, I think that right now we’re all sitting in our homes and we’re rethinking the way that we do our work. And even as individuals, we’re rethinking the way that we are doing our activism. You think that a very important message right now for activists personally and for organizations that organize activists and try to recruit and build the base, is that now is not the time to step away. Now, more important than ever, it is important to stand top of the issues, to sign those petitions, to speak up and to share your stories, because I will give you a very, very specific example. Right now, Congress is negotiating, arguing over all of these different critical needs in the Corona virus relief bills. While Mom’s Rising has been on the forefront of trying to influence those negotiations. And the most powerful weapon we have are your stories, people stories, what’s gonna happen to your child care center that has to close down what’s gonna happen to a domestic workers who suddenly don’t have a paycheck? Um, paid family leave. This is something that a signature mounds rising issue. We’ve been working on luck forever ever since. Our founding is one of our signature issues. But now, because of the stories that we have gathered and we’re hearing from our members about the need for pay leave and the fact that if we had had paid leave all this time that the burden of Corona virus would have been much lighter this is something that we’re powerfully bringing to the negotiating table. And we’re actually seeing We’re going on paid leave. So all organizations and all individuals, whatever issues that you’re working on, do not step away, continue to share your stories because those stories have to be brought to the negotiating table for policy. And that’s the only way we’re gonna get the policy that we need.

[00:57:30.53] spk_1:
Okay, We’re gonna leave it there. That’s Ah, quite inspirational. Thank you. That’s Ah, That’s Gloria Pan, Vice President, member engagement, engagement at Mom’s Rising. And also Selena Stewart, senior director of advocacy and litigation. The League of Women voters. Us though Gloria Selena. Thank you very much. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, Tommy. Pleasure and thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 ntc were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us next week. An archive show. I promise you, I’ll pick a winner If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this music is by Scots Dying with me next week for not profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for July 17, 2020: Mindfulness, Happiness, Well-Being Apps & Apps, Tools, Tactics

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[00:01:08.14] spk_0:
hello and welcome tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with UV itis if I saw that you missed today’s show. Mindfulness Happiness Well being APS from 20 and D. C. A survey of APS to help you increase resilience, work, life, balance and calmness. My guests are Beth Kanter, master trainer, and Miko Whitlock, the mindful techie. Also APS, tools, tactics Mawr 20 NTC Panelists share Their favorite resource is for efficiency. Raising more money and building stronger relationships. They’re Mico Whitlock again, the mindful techie and Jason Shim, from pathways to Education on Tony’s Take

[00:01:08.96] spk_2:
two.

[00:02:39.41] spk_0:
You’re Dismantling Racism Journey were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Martin for a free 60 day trial and, by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is mindfulness happiness well being APs. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference. Regrettably, the conference had to be canceled, but we are forging ahead virtually. We are sponsored at 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software. The Nolly Fund is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for ah free 60 day trial. My guests now are Beth Kanter and Miko Whitlock. Beth is master trainer, speaker and author. Her latest book is The Happy Healthy, non profit co authored with Liza Sherman and Miko Whitlock, trainer on mindfulness work, Life balance and tech Distraction. And both are intend board members. Beth Miko for each of you. Welcome back. You’ve both been on multiple times. Welcome back.

[00:02:45.04] spk_1:
Thank you, tony. Happy to be here?

[00:02:46.70] spk_2:
Yeah. Thank you, tony. Thank for Fort. Thank you for fortune. Non.

[00:03:21.05] spk_0:
Absolutely. I’m glad to do it. I’m glad we could get the three of us together. And good to know that you are each well and safe mico in Maryland and Beth in California, but continue to be safe. You’re 20. NTC Workshop is mindfulness, happiness and well being. There’s an app for that, Miko, Uh, technology is a double edged sword. You’re the mindful techie. Um, this thing can be enormously frustrating, distracting, But there’s another side to it.

[00:03:59.97] spk_1:
Absolutely. So I think of technology as a tool. So you think of a hammer? Ah, hammer could be something that could be used to destroy. We can also be something to use. Teoh build something to create something. And technology, particularly APS that we’re talking about are very similar. So APs and technology are necessarily a replacement for social interaction of some of the things that we do in person. But it certainly goes a long way toward facilitating those things, particularly in context. You might have, um, some kind of disability, for example. We talk about long distance relationships. All of those are ways in which technology can be an asset, not a deficit for us.

[00:04:05.44] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. So we’re looking at the positive side today. Um, do you want to just start getting up? Do we have different categories of APS for mindfulness happiness and well being? Or we didn’t have glommed together. What?

[00:04:31.46] spk_1:
So I will start with just what I think is sort of the primary of the foundation. And I’m sure Bath will agree that maybe Beth can sort of rattle off some of the other categories as I’m going through this. But we start with the internal apse. So often times we have this discussion. It’s all about the external APS meeting, the things that you can download from an apple store or things. You’re going down from a website. But we have an internal app in the form of my opponents. For example, the breath meditation. All those are things that don’t require us to pay for anything. Things that don’t require us to pay an extra luggage fee when we travel because we have those things within us internally. And so we start with help people to understand what are your internal applications and how do you actually access those?

[00:05:08.24] spk_0:
Okay, Internal apse?

[00:05:10.54] spk_2:
Yes. And I think toe at building what Miko was saying. I think the most important one is how is your positive out outlook on things and trying? I mean, it’s unimaginable what were going on. But you can also you’re in control of your thoughts so you can try to think about positive things. Um, like, Ah, what? Where’s the blessing in this? Uh, take a look at some of the creativity that’s happening. Um, think about what? You’re grateful for, um, for me. I just adopted this in your dog. I probably would have done that, so I’m very grateful for that.

[00:05:59.84] spk_1:
Absolutely. And the one of the single most important things. People looking for a way to start with the internal apse. It’s just taking one deep breath. You know, when you find yourself rattled, you find yourself overwhelmed taking an opportunity to cause and to just take one deep breath that is actually mindfulness. Oftentimes, we think that we have to engage in Oklahoma session. That’s 30 minutes longer. You have to have a yoga mat. Have to have the right pants. None of those things are necessary for you to actually put yourself in that unmindful state in a more holistic and healthy state.

[00:06:15.79] spk_0:
Okay, just a single breath.

[00:06:17.65] spk_1:
A single breath

[00:06:18.84] spk_0:
doesn’t get any simpler. Start there. Yeah, because you want to share something that you’re grateful for. Please.

[00:07:22.55] spk_1:
I’m actually grateful for my mindfulness practice has been one of the things that actually help me to stay center during this time. That we’re in is one of the things that I used to make sure that when I’m using technology, you know, social media email, etcetera, that I’m actually using it in a way that actually advances my intentions for my work and how I want to show up on. And it allows me to actually be able to support people who are legitimately experiencing fear and anxiety and anxiousness during times like these. So I’m actually grateful to have the mindfulness practice in the half APs, for example, Like the inside timer, which I use this morning. It’s a timer app that allows you to, um, set a timer for your meditation or for the type of mindless practice their courses you’re able to connect with community of folks who are also engaged in similar practices on gives you a little time, different options at the end, what your practice has concluded. So that’s the way that I’m marrying. Um, what I’m grateful for in this moment with actually a positive use of technology.

[00:07:30.02] spk_0:
Yeah. What’s the name of that again? Fight timer in sight timer. Okay.

[00:07:48.04] spk_2:
And it can also I’ve been doing with a lot of my teams. We’ve been actually using that to start our meetings with a moment of silence. Just so everyone gets censured and we can focus on you know, the work at hand versus what’s going on outside are locked down areas.

[00:07:53.74] spk_0:
If you have an app that Oh, are we ready? Should we do it? I don’t want I don’t want to rush through the internal personal.

[00:08:00.72] spk_2:
Let’s let’s go, Teoh Weight

[00:08:03.58] spk_1:
categories. I can just ride out the categories and they may be back in China. What? She has it. That’s OK.

[00:08:30.24] spk_2:
Sure. I was just gonna go with our presentation, like health, health and fitness. And I’m Sam, uh, this happen, which is Fitbit. It’s also in your phone measures your steps, get you walking. And I’m really grateful that we can still go outside walk and I’ve been doing actually virtual walks with face time with folks and even zoom like we’re on now. Having walking for years.

[00:08:45.07] spk_0:
You’ve been doing walking meetings for a long time. Seven years? Yeah. You doing meetings? Walking view? Was that? Do you tell me you demand? Do you insist on walking meetings? Well, you still you’re

[00:08:45.84] spk_2:
never, never, never demanded because we also I call them strolling meetings now because not everybody you know is come walk. Some people stroll, and now some people Canada walk. So it’s, It’s it’s Ah, optional. But one fun thing is to actually get get Zoom on your phone and dio have everyone walk around the neighborhood. You’ll do that. Walk. Do that walking meeting. Get that exercise. The exercise and fresh air is important.

[00:09:51.78] spk_0:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness has settled down. There haven’t been changes for several weeks now. Wegner has the info. Their latest free webinar explains the state of forgiveness. What’s forgivable? What documentation do you need? How to work with your lender? Goto wegner-C.P.As dot com Click Resource is and recorded events Now back to mindfulness happiness Well being apse with Beth Kanter and Mico Whitlock Best. I think the dog you just adopted was in the window. He no longer. But

[00:09:57.75] spk_2:
you saw

[00:09:58.65] spk_0:
it was in the night. He was looked like he was sitting on the window frame. He was looking out at the right. The bright sunshine outside.

[00:10:03.87] spk_2:
Yeah, there’s lots of squirrels in our backyards.

[00:10:07.76] spk_0:
You gotta give us another one before we go back to Mico, please.

[00:10:32.07] spk_2:
You Okay, So another one that’s important with health and fitness is to get enough sleep. I don’t. You know, some I’ve had plague induced insomnia. Ah, but you know, getting sleep helps your immune system and helps you focus. It helps you with your fuse. You know, you can have kids in the background. I have a college dormitory here whenever you

[00:10:33.04] spk_0:
have a life while you have

[00:10:34.98] spk_2:
a life. Yes. Right. So night shift. Um, it helps you adjust the light on your phones.

[00:10:39.27] spk_0:
Night shift on a phone. That’s a key. Yes. Yes.

[00:10:41.60] spk_2:
And don’t use your phone as an alarm clock and shut off the phone and electronics two hours before Ben. That’ll helplessly.

[00:10:48.24] spk_0:
Uh, okay. Why not? Why not use the phone as an alarm clock?

[00:10:52.81] spk_2:
Well, because you’re then looking at it. You’re looking at that bright light, and that’s what goes into your brain. And that’s what disrupt your circadian rhythms in your melatonin and the onset of sleep. And you don’t get his good night’s sleep. And we need to have we need to arrest for immune systems and for our own. Well, me?

[00:11:08.72] spk_0:
Yeah, definitely. Sleep is critical for health. Right? But if I have night shift on, does that not protect me when I set my alarm on my phone.

[00:11:33.68] spk_2:
Well, what it does, is it It makes the light on your phone warmer or less Kelvin’s, that a sunny day. It’s not scientifically proven that it doesn’t disrupt. There’s no science behind that. They say it does they? It’s a hypothesis, but I think it’s, you know, it’s a great app if you have to. Maybe a couple hours before bedtime and you’re working making a warmer light,

[00:11:40.88] spk_0:
right? Oh, night shift. Yeah, I was talking about the using of the alarm with night shift done, but

[00:11:52.54] spk_2:
well that if you use your alarm before bed, then you might be tempted to go and look at other things on your phone. You know, some people like me had poor impulse control, so I think the iPhone out of my bedroom. And I just heard I don’t get a look at stuff at least two hours before bed.

[00:12:27.54] spk_1:
And for me, it’s the impulse control has done it issues. So I actually do use my phone as an alarm clock. And so I used the feature called Do Not Disturb where essentially between nine and 9 a.m. Nine p. M. And 10 a.m. my notifications air silenced so that I’m my sleep in my morning routine aren’t disrupted by what’s happening. Now, if you’re like Beth and you have an impulse control issue and it’s getting in the way of your sleep getting the

[00:12:31.76] spk_2:
way label that you

[00:12:35.51] spk_1:
want to get a real alarm clock and charge it outside of your room or get some get the

[00:12:39.95] spk_2:
smart. You know, I have that. I have the moonlight won that wakes you up to moon beings, and I also used Do not disturb, but I still keep the phone in another room.

[00:12:47.34] spk_0:
Yeah, okay. All right. Uh, all right, we’ve established that Beth has issues.

[00:12:52.37] spk_2:
No, no, I’ve overcome them

[00:12:55.94] spk_1:
aps mindfully in order to help her with that.

[00:12:59.91] spk_0:
You used to tell me about, uh, you were obsessive with checking email. I think this was a couple of years ago. A couple interviews ago. You’re obsessed about checking email assumes you woke up.

[00:13:09.24] spk_2:
Yeah, I got over. That was a member of that, But that was part of, like, my own bad behaviors. And what I was seeing other people kind of led to the writing of the book.

[00:13:19.24] spk_0:
Okay, You’re undisciplined at the time. But you’ve recovered.

[00:13:22.74] spk_2:
Yes, because I felt the impact of being undisciplined, which was, you know, distraction, crankiness. And, you know, I didn’t get stuff done as much as I could. I would never have been able to write for books if I hadn’t started to, you know, use some of these techniques over the last seven years or so. OK?

[00:13:57.35] spk_1:
And I think the interesting thing about what I said is that the fact that many of us many more of us are actually forced to work virtually now we’re gonna have to contend with exactly what Beth is talking about. And I think it’s a beautiful thing that we have. Um we were able to put the other this session where we’ve actually, you know, going out and found these different Absolutely help you with that. And then, of course, you have the best book which provides Resource is so, um you know, fortunately for the folks now, they actually have a resource, whereas back, you know and her colleague had to figure this out on their own.

[00:14:11.64] spk_0:
Happy, healthy

[00:14:59.24] spk_2:
people say I will say though I would be totally transparent and honest. I’m a human and sometimes you know, you fall off the wagon and I must say we’ve been on in the house for a month because we started getting messaging about all the tech companies closed down. They did it before the government told them to. And there’s a lot of messaging going around here in the hot spot. You know, dunk a wild if you’re over a certain age or if you have immune issues. So so that did increase my anxiety bit. Um, and I And when my anxiety increases, I start to fall back into some of these bad habits that start to perpetuate anxiety. And I did that for a couple of days. And then I said, Get the pause button, stop and see what you’re doing stuff. Pull out all your tools and, you know, get yourself together.

[00:15:06.22] spk_0:
Alright. Self awareness. Self awareness is key. Yes, it’s an important point. Yeah. Bet they also see, uh, container of wipes in your background to just

[00:15:10.49] spk_2:
ugo you see,

[00:15:23.34] spk_0:
There it is. Yeah. Um, I’ve been looking at a lot of backgrounds recently. Doing 20 years, some of these, um there. This is interesting. What? What people choose for their background. You have Japanese.

[00:15:27.94] spk_2:
You see my pain collection, right? Next wipes are my fountain pen collection

[00:15:30.91] spk_0:
collection. I see them in a dark, dark wood

[00:15:39.44] spk_2:
k on my writing box. But that’s part of my morning routine is to write inspirational quotes and calligraphy. Alright. What? And I won’t be able to do that if I have my If I hadn’t turned my alerts off and and use Do not disturb

[00:15:45.44] spk_0:
and someone plays the cello. Is that a cello or bass?

[00:15:50.21] spk_2:
Yes, that’s my husband. And you could probably see Casey the piano. No, you can’t, but yeah, it’s a musical family to that helps to music. Even if you just use your phone, Just listen to, like, classical music or jazz, whatever. Whatever you can to

[00:16:03.88] spk_0:
Mikko, you don’t want to see your home.

[00:16:19.59] spk_1:
Well, this is my home. This is I call it the Sanctuary. And so this is one of the ways that I mentally make a shift and actually prepare for my day. And so, um, I actually started you mature coming on the virtual background that I have actually started to use that as a way to having conversations like this. People who are feeling anxious or overwhelmed to say like Hey, like, let’s have something fun to sort of take you out of your immediate state of panic or in gaiety and once ready, let’s do that. Let’s figure out how we can move forward together with this product that we have that or that we’re talking about. Um, it’s a good ice breaker. It’s a great conversation starter. And, like Beth said about starting your meeting with the moment of silence. This is not really a moment of science, but it’s a good way to sort of break the tension in the room to get the meeting started,

[00:16:50.64] spk_2:
you know, and also looking at me coz unloved what you had yesterday your beach. But this one in the mountains, it’s making me think of one of the apse that we were recommending called calm, which actually takes you into a place of nature. And you hear the birds, you hear the ocean and you know, and it can help you do, Ah, three minute technique that can help reduce anxiety, which is just a mental vacation. And, you know, more and more we’re going to be working at home, ever gonna have back to back virtual meetings, and I think we’re gonna have, like, meeting virtual meeting fatigue. And so I think, between meetings, if you could take that three minute vacation like open up calm the calm app, it’s also a webpage. And just like, listen, you know, pretend you’re walking outside the national parks now are live streaming hikes or even go for Mitt. You know, a quick virtual Nate nature walk between innings

[00:17:38.14] spk_0:
Beth is the app spelled like the word CLM? Yes, Yes. Okay, okay. We just have a couple minutes left. Let’s Is there another category of ah of app? Mico?

[00:19:52.54] spk_1:
Yes, eso. Let’s talk about something we haven’t talked about yet. So it’s like about connectivity and relationships. Eso there two things that I want to talk about here in terms of maintaining a sustaining connections, particularly since we’re spending so much time at a distance. Right? So the 1st 1 is called fabric spelled f A B R I Q. And this is an app for the iPhone for your android device that allows you to intentionally prioritize your most important relationships. So, for me, the way I will use this app is since I don’t live near my family. I live in a different state. I want to make sure that I’m maintaining those close connections. And so this app allows me to identify who those folks are. And then it gives me were periodic reminders about Have you checked in with this person? Gives me an option toe, take notes to collect my reflections. And so it’s a really good way to prompt yourself. Admit all the things that are happening to make sure that you’re checking in on the folks that are most important to you. Um, another app that similar to this is called the Five Love Languages at is called Love Nudge and is available for Apple and Enjoy. And it’s based on the five love languages framework developed by Gareth Happen. The most folks know this framework in the context of romantic relationships, but it actually applies to just any type of relationship in general, in terms of how we communicate, how we like to receive and give love, how I like to Rio receive and give I’m communication, so this particular app allows you to identify your love language, identify the love language of your partner or your colleague or whoever that might be in connection with. And then it gives you nudges throughout the week on how you actually can connect with that person using their love language. So, for example, if, um, if my partner likes to receive words of affirmation, I might be prompted toe leave a post that saying I love you on the refrigerator, for example, in a way that I’m connecting with that person. Does the weights toe really help you toe? Um, really make sure you’re nurturing the the most important relationships for you so that Greek and the five love languages app would be to that. I would recommend from this category around sustaining and nurturing and strengthening connectivity and relationships.

[00:20:50.69] spk_2:
And I would build on what Miko was saying on and talk about it from the perspective of the workplace. Well, being in the workplace is important to have this connective it Ian. Good relationships. It’s gonna be harder at a distance to do that. Um, so so one app is called Know your team, and it helps you build trust and relationships with your team. There’s assessments. There’s lots of tips for one on one check ins icebreakers and check ins for meetings. So you can. And I think I’ve seen a lot of these used over. You know, I’ve been working virtually from, like, 30 years. So a lot of these techniques really can work to help us maintain that human connection and relationship and trust in the workplace. And I think we’re gonna need that as we move forward to rebuild and move on.

[00:20:57.15] spk_1:
No more. The doughnut about is another one. That’s really interesting in this regard. So what?

[00:20:58.76] spk_0:
They again? What’s the name?

[00:21:15.83] spk_1:
Don’t at the pot. We’re going it specifically for slack. And so it’s about that randomly Paris people up for coffee dates. And so obviously, we’re sort of limiting the number in person interactions now. But we could do that to prompt people to have virtual, um, coffee dates or virtual doughnuts or virtual happy

[00:21:22.76] spk_0:
hours. Okay. Beth showing her coffee mug.

[00:21:25.99] spk_2:
Yeah, it’s Stuart. It’s too early for happy hour.

[00:21:36.84] spk_0:
All right, Beth, I’m gonna let you take us out because Miko, give us the intro. We just have a minute or so on the inspiration.

[00:22:51.49] spk_2:
Sure. Some inspiration, cause my good colleague John Heightened whose whose past, but wrote the book Donor Care Here. He did interview with Me about self care, but he also wrote about his self care techniques while he was facing his horrible battle with cancer. And one question he asked himself every day was, What rainbow am I gonna eat? And, of course, if you Google that it refers to eating healthy vegetables, a rainbow of fruits and vegetables in terms of colors. Chris, of course, having cast radio, eat healthy foods. But I thought thinking of it, There’s lots of rain bows out there in our neighborhood. Parents with the kids are drawing pictures of rainbows with colored chalk on the sidewalk. So when other families passed by there trying to find the rainbows, so we all need to look at the Rainbow’s at the end of this, it’s going to be the most horrible thing in the that we’ve ever experienced. That’s probably coming, but after that I see lots of signaling around some of the creativity and the kindness and the mutual aid and the dismantling of oppressive symptom systems in our lives that are happening, and I truly believe we won’t come back the same. But we’re gonna come back better and different and better. So we have to keep every day. Look for a blessing. Look for a rainbow. Look for gratitude. Um and dont adult well, in the darkness.

[00:25:24.34] spk_0:
Yeah, we will. We will. We will emerge. All right, I like that. Thank you very much. Beth. That’s Beth Kanter, Master trainer, speaker and author. Her latest book, The Happy Healthy non profit and Miko Whitlock, trainer on mindfulness work about work, life balance and tech Distraction. He’s ah, is the mindful techie. Thank you very much. Thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC. Thanks so much. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software, Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and that exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at slash Cougar Mountain. Now time for Tony’s Take two. You’re dismantling racism journey. That’s our newest special episode, and it’s now out on video. You will have a long journey. So start with this single step. My guest is pretty itchy Shaw, president and CEO of Flourished Talent Management Solutions. Starting where you are with your people, your culture and your leadership. How do you gather data about racist structures right under your nose? Who do you invite to the conversation? She helps you see the way forward. The video is on my YouTube channel in the racism and White privilege playlist. Check it out. That is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for APS Tools tactics with Mikko Whitlock again and Jason Shim. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020. Non profit Technology Conference. We’re sponsored at 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software. My guests now are Mico Whitlock and Jason Shim. Miko is trainer on mindfulness work, Life balance and tech Distraction at mindful Techie. He’s also a member of the Intend Board, and Jason Shim is director of digital strategy at Pathways to Education Canada. Jason is the chair of the and 10 board of directors. Miko Jason, Welcome very much. Welcome to the show.

[00:25:27.74] spk_1:
Thank you for having us.

[00:25:28.91] spk_3:
Thanks for having us.

[00:25:41.44] spk_0:
Pleasure. Yes. Pleasure. And I’m glad to know that you reach well and safe. Jason in Toronto and Miko in Maryland outside d. C. Good to know that everybody’s well shut out. Jason’s background for those who cannot are not seeing the video. Jason is on the bridge of the Enterprise. But not the classic, not the one I know. I mean, I know the movies. I know the TV best because that’s what I grew up with. But which version of the enterprise are you? Bridge. Are you on, Jason?

[00:25:59.57] spk_3:
This would be the one from the next generation. So, uh uh, 1701 D

[00:26:36.64] spk_0:
last image of it. He knows the ship designation. Excellent. Alright. And Nico is where I saw him last week. Uh, beautiful of forest mountains and a lake in the valley. Yes. The Blue Lake? Yes, my backyard. Your backyard just outside Washington. He’s got private lake. Um, okay, you’re 20. NTC Topic is APS, tools and tactics to be a non profit Olympian. Amico, let’s start with you. What? Uh, you just you guys have Ah, You do have some basic resources that are accessible and easy to use and are gonna increase productivity.

[00:26:53.96] spk_1:
Exactly. So it’s actually based on an idea that Jason had around the Olympics. And I know Jason. You want Explain the idea and Tyler connects.

[00:26:59.18] spk_0:
Okay, Jason?

[00:27:28.64] spk_3:
Yeah. So the Olympic motto is Ah, faster, higher, stronger. And, you know, there’s always ah, ton of tools that were always coming across. And I think one of the challenges is trying to make it really easy to categorize them. And so the Olympic model came to mind. So things that will help you and organization go faster, things that will help you raise higher revenues and things that will help you build stronger relationships. So generally, if any of the tools conf it and to any of those three buckets, then that also fits very well for non profit usage.

[00:27:34.74] spk_0:
Okay, so why don’t you Don’t you start us off. You want toe, start with faster, and you’ve got Ah, a couple of laps or resource is for us.

[00:28:00.54] spk_3:
Yeah, So I I know. Kick it off with, you know, just talking a bit about some of the automation tools eso speaking to faster. You know, I’m a big fan of Ah, uh, piece of software called Toby eso. Toby is, uh, a chrome extension that you can install that will make your bookmarks very easy to access. So, you know, if you go about your day to day, you may open the same pages every morning. But instead of having to open them all manually or taking them into the oil buyer Toby will live each a group of Marx together. Second, press one button and open your five news pages that you open every morning. It’ll load it all in the background. You just browse the tabs very quickly.

[00:28:24.46] spk_0:
Okay? Is that t o B y

[00:28:27.04] spk_3:
yet? That’s T O B Y.

[00:28:28.59] spk_0:
Okay. Cool for a for, uh, grouping your bookmarks, OK? Yeah. You got another one for us?

[00:29:24.35] spk_3:
Yeah. Another tool that all share is around automation. So I’m a big fan of automation. Is that anything that you can clearly defined in a step by step kind of way you can probably out of me. So my my favorite right now is the Xabier eso. Is that a p i e r ah? And we use it quite extensively. It has over 1500 different types of integrations so specifically Well, how we use it in our organization is for revealing information into slack. So Let’s say if a donation comes in, um, that it will really a notification immediately into shared slack channel for letter staff. Know that one has come in. So you don’t have to wait for a report to be generated every week or every day that you know, the moment that comes in that you know, people are notified and you can respond quickly to folks to let them know that. Hey, you know, thank you so much for making a contribution. We really value it. And we’ve seen some great results. So, you know, the moment that someone donates, you know, weaken within five minutes, be emailing them to give him a very personal thank you.

[00:29:38.24] spk_0:
Justin isn’t, say Pierre very robust to him. You can define your own tasks. Yeah, I think you should code your own, but you want to be a coder to do it.

[00:29:47.24] spk_3:
Now you can You can drag and drop in remix everything and it’s ah, it’s a great for folks who may not have, you know, it kind of coding background or even to maybe too technical. But if you are technical, there is a lot of capability that you can integrate into it. So it’s It’s great for people of all backgrounds.

[00:30:06.84] spk_0:
We go if you got anything in ah, in working faster before we before we go to revenue generators.

[00:30:56.01] spk_1:
Well, in terms of the fast Buck and I would focus more on productivity. And so there are two things that I want to set. Some tools I recommend. The first is around calendar ring and meetings. We recognize that when we look in the aggregate at hour work weeks, we spend so much time in meetings. But one of these we don’t account for the amount of time you actually spend scheduling meetings. So for folks that have spent a lot of time scheduling one on one meetings, and now a lot of us are working virtually using things like Zoom. One of my favorite plug ins is for Google Calendar and for Outlook calendar. So it essentially allows you with the click of one button to schedule a zoom meeting and to invite people to it. So right now, if you’re not using this plug in and you want to schedule a zoom meeting, you have to create the zoo meeting. Forgot what time is gonna be have to give the link copy and paste it, then send it to the people that are going to be a part of the meeting with this plug in. Essentially, create a calendar invite like you would for a normal meeting. And you you press the, you know, turn us into a zoo meeting. But most unplugging is installed, and then the Zumwinkel automatically generated. You just pop in the folks who want to invite and you send off the invite and that saves you a tremendous amount of time. If you’re scheduling a lot of zoom meetings,

[00:31:32.24] spk_0:
is there any is there not a plugging for I, Cal, those of us in the apple using the apple calendar? Now

[00:31:43.76] spk_1:
perhaps there is. But I’m only familiar with Google and and four for Outlook. So for the aikau folks, you about this research to see if there’s anything for them, but definitely for Google and for for outlook.

[00:31:48.29] spk_0:
Okay, and what’s it? What’s it called? That we look for?

[00:31:50.90] spk_1:
Just called the zoom calendar plug

[00:31:53.53] spk_0:
in. Okay. Yes, And the three of us had enough trouble, uh, be creating meetings. But one of you would get the invitation that came from my Cal After you create a after you create a creative meeting and then zoom then answered the aikau, one of you would get the invitation, the other would not. And then I Then I just ended up copying and pasting another standard email, and it worked. But yes, I have my own frustrations around. Ah, Zoom and Aikau working together. Guys, you got another one for for calendar ring.

[00:32:36.34] spk_1:
I do. So if you schedule a lot of one on one meetings, there’s two sets of souls that competitors and you can use either one if use both. One is called acuity scheduling. So a C u I t. Y scheduling. And the 2nd 1 is called commonly, um, c l E N D. Why, captain,

[00:32:45.00] spk_0:
tellingly right? E N d l Y

[00:32:55.39] spk_1:
el y yes. Yeah. So acuity scheduling and Calvin Lee. And what both of these tools allow you to do is to save the time, save yourself time, going back and forth, and I figure out when they get time to meet, right? So how many times do you spend time trying to figure out when to meet with someone, and especially just a brief meeting you could actually spend more time trying to schedule a meeting. Then you actually you actually talking to the person, right?

[00:33:10.00] spk_0:
That can be so. These

[00:33:51.91] spk_1:
tools both of these tools allow you to with Google Calendar, Uh, and with outlook to share your calendar in your availability and allow the person to essentially you send Emily, they see your counter. They could select the time the invite goes on your calendar. It goes on their calendar. And if you have a plug in like resume install forgot by your security scheduling with zoom, a zoom link is automatically generated. It goes in your calendar goes on their calendar. And if you want to set up reminders to automatically go out for yourself for them, those things were set up. But you essentially save yourself that back and forth. It just takes you five seconds to send in the link and then you’re done is in their court. It takes, um, you know what, five minutes or less to pick a time and get on your calendar and you’ve gotten back. Um, you know that time that you feel otherwise spent going back fourth, the e mail or by phone kind of figure out when works for you.

[00:34:44.24] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. You have to think about the time. The aggregate time you spend setting up meetings. I mean, I don’t It can’t be done in fewer than two emails each. And that’s I think that’s an outlier that’s at the low end, you know? And then a minute the meeting cancels, then your back to it again, uh, again, at least another four, but more likely six or six or eight between the two people and then and then And then, uh, maybe it doesn’t. It certainly doesn’t increase exponentially, but it increases considerably when you bring in 1/3 or fourth people. Fourth person trying trying to flight four people trying to schedule together. Yes, I think that’s at least partly at least 10 emails. Uh, you know, between everybody 10 and again, I’m not 10. Could be low, depending on, you know. And now we’re scheduling so many more meetings. So,

[00:34:53.79] spk_1:
yes. So So both of those sets of fools, I recommend to the streamline the process and get back a little bit of time.

[00:35:44.19] spk_0:
Talk about being mindful. Rightful of the time you spend scheduling meetings. Yes, a start time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We know this turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo, we’ve got but loads more time for APS tools tactics from 20 NTC. Okay, you got one for revenue. And before we go back to Jason, you want kickoff revenue?

[00:36:42.94] spk_1:
Yeah, so I’ll shift over to texting. And so one of my one of the tools I use is called text awful on t e t e x t i f u l text. Awful. And essentially, what it allows you to do is it allows you to, um, do email opt ins via text message. So say, for example, this were presentation and you want to give people access to the recording After this prison condition, you could say OK, text, you know, non profit Olympians should this number, and we’re gonna add you to the list and When the videos ready, we’re gonna send it to you. That is one efficient way to capture email addresses for large events. Large gatherings. I do it at my workshops. So if you want the slides, text this number. If you want to stay in contact text, you know little on purpose toe this number and you’ll be added to the list on the next message on update you’ll work. You received that. And so if you tie that into your fundraising efforts, you could see how that could be a great way to identify prospects and then be able to follow with them about actually working with the donating to your organization.

[00:36:54.93] spk_0:
Awesome. Okay, thank you. Text if all Jason, how about you on the revenue side?

[00:38:32.32] spk_3:
Yeah. So one of my favorite tools is ah, the judge. So that’s the I. D. Why a r d dot com and what it is this ah chrome extension that you can install that allows you to easily record videos s so they could be videos of yourself as an individual. Or you can record your desktop or your desktop with a little circle in the corner with you can in a reading. Ah, and how organization has used it is more around the stewardship side to show people the impact of their donations. Eso because I work with an organization that serves youth believing a low income communities across the country but we’re able to do is they were able to record very personalized thank you, um, to our donors using this software. So what we’ll actually do is, you know, to get folks attention because everyone’s getting tons of email in their inbox that the thumbnail will actually be an animation of someone holding up a sign that says the person’s name. So you would get something like the sign would actually say, Thank you, tony. And it’s actually written. It’s not automated, and then you click play, and then you know, the recipient would Here, you know, high tony, thank you so much for making a donation to pathways. Education Canada. You’re making an impact in the lives of people like myself in achieving our dreams, And the impact that it’s had is that this goes into the higher revenues. But you know it. It spills over a bit into the stronger relationships part as well, because it’s um, it’s very much. Ah ah. An individualized, personalized message that cuts through. You know, you’re the general kind of stuff that people normally get in their day to day inbox, and it really helps connect our supporters of more directly with with, uh, with the cause.

[00:38:57.62] spk_0:
Okay. Cool video. All right, eyes there. Another one around the revenue side. Anything else? No.

[00:38:58.52] spk_1:
You want to mention Bun bun Juro, which is similar to video

[00:39:07.87] spk_3:
Bob on joyless. Quelle is another video platform. That is Ah. Ah, quite helpful. Similar. That is also that you can easily create a video. So as be oh, and J o r o b for banjo.

[00:39:22.12] spk_0:
Okay. Thank you. Um, all right. So, uh, our third category was stronger relationships. You got something there, Jason?

[00:40:16.39] spk_3:
So ah, flipping back onto the texting side. Twilio has many different kind of tools, their offers, and so near twilio studio is something that has helped us connect with folks in that it allows us Teoh quite easily create. And, um, whether you want to create your own, like, interactive voice response, um, or if you want to create a more complex tree for you know, someone texts into a number that you can also take them through various paths. Where to learn more about your organization. The other way that we’ve used 12 you as well is for sending out text messages generally without with updates. Eso We’ve used the TWILIO platform to send out text messages to our students directly in order to remind them that events are going on S o. You know, that’s super helpful in terms of just being there. And you know, those kind of nudges. It’s similar to what we do in person, but it’s also using the tool to extend that reach and being like, Hey, just nudge, um, that this event is going on tomorrow on that really helps improve our attendance treats at events A ZX Well,

[00:40:42.67] spk_0:
because you have something in the relationship side.

[00:41:41.55] spk_1:
Yes, I have two sets of tools that are related to how we use social media, so we know that now more than ever, our social connections are really important and social media, you know, while it has some of this downsize, it also could be a powerful way toe keep us connected, particularly if we’re at a distance right. But one of things that we find that happens is we can go down the rabbit hole of sort of losing focus on why we’re on the platforms to begin with. And so the first floor wegner recommended For folks who are using Facebook on the best top, there’s a plug in called, um Facebook news feed. Eradicate ER that you can install for your browser. And essentially, what that allows you to do is to replace the news feet when you log into Facebook with the quote. And so what’s the reason behind us? Well, many of us have had this challenge will be Log into Facebook. You wanna wish someone Happy birthday? You want response a message. You want to comment in a group? Or do some of the activities actually connected to you to someone and you find yourself 45 minutes later in this rabbit hole of watching cat videos, a cute puppies running around or watching the you know, whatever the latest news thing is right on. One of the reasons for that is that you get caught up in the sort of the newness of with in your news feed, so this particular plug in allows you to replace the new seat with a quote, and it makes it more likely that you will be able to remember to pause to reflect and actually remember what your primary intention was when you log into Facebook to begin with. So again, that one is Facebook news feed eradicate er specifically for the desktop version of Facebook and for folks who are using Facebook to the browser way.

[00:42:18.14] spk_0:
Just, uh, we just have about a minute left. So this last one you’re gonna do, um, do it concisely, please.

[00:42:26.00] spk_1:
All right, so for Instagram, YouTube and Facebook for the mobile versions, essentially, what we have are each of these has settings that allows you to monitor your usage to set Ah, a timer or just that reminders on how much you’re using. You’re using those particular applications so that you want spending all your time on those, but you’re actually able toe sustained connections. You know, uh, get worked on and live your life. So check out the settings for those If you’re using those on the mobile version, if you want to get a better handle on how you spend your time on this for us,

[00:43:14.02] spk_0:
okay? We’re gonna leave there by my count will be ticked off. You You ticked off. 10 10 Different resource is in, like, under 20 minutes. So thank you. Very efficient. Very mindful. Very efficient. Very productive. Enormously als three. So thank you that they are. Ah Mika Whitlock, trainer on mindfulness work, Life balance and tech Distractions at Mindful Techie and Jason Shim, director of digital strategy at Pathways to Education Canada thanks to each of you Very much. Thank you, Nico. Thank you, Jason. Thank you.

[00:43:33.30] spk_3:
Thanks for having us

[00:44:41.18] spk_0:
pleasure. Next week, Gene Takagi returns with joining forces M o use to mergers. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial And by turn, to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz managed stream shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our rep guy on this music is by Scott Stein Way next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for May 29, 2020: Fundraising 401

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Laurence Pagnoni: Fundraising 401
That’s Laurence Pagnoni’s latest book. It’s a series of masterclasses for all levels and a collection of revelations he’s gained over 35 years in nonprofit management and fundraising. That’s Laurence Pagnoni’s latest book. It’s a series of masterclasses for all levels and a collection of revelations he’s gained over 35 years in nonprofit management and fundraising.

 

 

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[00:01:53.32] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d go into Borba Rig mus if you upset my stomach with the idea that you missed today’s show. Fundraising for 01 That’s Lawrence Paige non EA’s latest book. It’s a series of master classes for all levels and a collection of revelations he’s gained over 35 years in non profit management and fundraising. Tony Stick, You planning for reopening were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by Cougar Math and Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant er mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. It’s a real pleasure to welcome back Lawrence Pack tony Teoh non profit radio. He is chairman of Lap A fundraising serving non profits throughout the world, roughly 25 clients at a time. He’s got 35 years in the sector as executive director and fundraising council, his latest book published this year is fundraising for, 01 master classes in non profit fundraising That would make Peter Drucker proud. The company is at lap of fundraising dot com and at lap of fundraising. Welcome lap. If the firm was lapper your lab, right,

[00:02:00.79] spk_0:
we tripped upon the acronym years and years ago. We always use the full Lawrence Ape Agnone Associates. And

[00:02:07.26] spk_1:
as I remember,

[00:02:08.24] spk_0:
one day, we just had written lap on this and that had good alliteration. We should use that.

[00:02:18.28] spk_1:
Okay, you went the way of ah, of, um, Triple A and ah, and AARP. You know, they don’t You’re not, You know, Lawrence, tape Agnone Associates anymore. Your lap. That’s right. Okay, it’s the It’s the 21st century now. Alright.

[00:02:38.44] spk_0:
But there’s also a mini lesson there for non profits about, uh, branding. Um, trying to get it right at the beginning is important, but good. The difference between good branding and great branding is the width of the Grand Canyon. Um and so I didn’t ever want to venture into rebranding it without great council, which I’ve never been able to afford.

[00:03:29.74] spk_1:
So you stumbled on lap and we evolved, you know, you? Yes, it’s proof that the greatness doesn’t come out in the beginning. You can’t plan all the greatness in the beginning. It has to as to organically come about. So it’s been like 6.5 years. You were on the, uh, your for your first book, the non profit fundraising solution. You are on non profit radio on November 8th, 2013. Wow, when that book was new, seven years ago on dhe. Now, your second, um so let’s let’s get into it. Uh, why does, uh, what is management consultant Peter Drucker belong in the title?

[00:05:16.64] spk_0:
Ah, Homage to Peter Drucker taught me how to think. Ah, well, I guess the Jesuits would take the first bow for that. But Peter Drucker, Um, I was a Peter Drucker fellow in the 19 nineties here in New York City. And it was Peter who taught me how to integrate fundraising into organizational development. Besides just being a great part human being, he was a brilliant strategist and thinker. He of course, wrote the original bulk on reengineering General Motors, and but he spent the last years of his life focused on the what he called the higher profit sector what we call the nonprofit sector. But he, uh he thought that if there wasn’t a coalescing off the non profit sectors values with the business sector, that society would be deficient for for that not happening. So, um, actually, when I started writing this book, um, I didn’t realize the degree to which drug Harry and thinking had Dominy eat it. My own thinking. And it was about a dozen chapters in that my editor said you use Drucker an awful lot. I said, tell me how many times? And then I was, like, astounded. And, um and then I I added that little no. Oh, my him

[00:05:23.14] spk_1:
And And Drucker had the book managing the non profit organization. Yeah. He was committed to the to the sector. To what he got what he called the higher profit. Is that what he called it? The higher profit

[00:05:31.64] spk_0:
profit Peter Drucker?

[00:05:33.28] spk_1:
There it is. And all right,

[00:05:48.29] spk_0:
I’m Crawford organization. It’s been on my desk since 19 91. I think, um, and I read and re read it as I hope you will do my book fund raising for a one coming forward.

[00:05:49.64] spk_1:
Yes. Ive replayed your show on the first book three times since 2013. So I have you, tony. It’s a go to for still is for people who asked me, How do I get the next level? I get that question every maybe a couple times a month. Maybe not that often sometimes, but I recommend the book for how to get to the next level. It’s a It’s a very systematic and sensible approach.

[00:06:27.36] spk_0:
The, uh, the fundraising, The nonprofit fundraising solution was the pros of fundraising. But fundraising for a one is really the poetry. It’s more the art of fundraising, whereas the other one was the science.

[00:06:31.39] spk_1:
Yeah, you say that and you talk about the art and science and one of your chapters. But you talk about growing into answers and moving to a better set of problems with both of which sound artistic talk about that growing into answers and better set of problems.

[00:08:00.24] spk_0:
Well, oftentimes, nonprofits What? There, there. Uh, there’s not enough room in scopes of service, you know, you hire a fundraiser to fundraise and you define a scope of service but a really advanced fundraising system. Once it gets going, it has to look carefully at what the owners are saying. What the institutional funders are saying, Ah, what is working in social media and what’s not for one of our large clients connected with Johns Hopkins University? They weren’t able to raise any money online. And he, um, change the way they approached social Media. And within the first year, they had an extra $100,000 from their social media program. Um, so figuring out as you go long, um, more efficient ways and building that creativity in is very important. And, um, um, and defining it too rigidly. Uh uh, shuts that down.

[00:09:16.36] spk_1:
I did like a better set of problems. No, you tell an anecdote. You, for some reason aboard, was getting involved in whether to buy a fax machine. Let’s not get into whether board should even be deciding whether by fax you. But, you know, you just went out and bought the damn thing yourself. Now the fax machines, not communicating with our donors back when facts that this was many years ago, not communicating with donors and our funders is not a problem, but so that that was for me, that was okay. Better set of problems Let’s not deal with the damn fax machine. I’ll buy it. And now let’s deal with communications. It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As. We received RP PP funding. Now what? That’s their latest recorded webinar. What about loan forgiveness? How do you get the max forgiven from your Pee Pee Pee loan? You need to apply for that. It’s not automatic forgiveness. Get the details from the C P, a firm we trust. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Click Resource is and recorded events. Now back to fundraising for 01

[00:10:33.97] spk_0:
But here’s a Here’s a more sophisticated, better set of problems. Let’s say right now you don’t know who you’re monthly donors are or your plan donors are, and you do research to figure out. Maybe a lot of nonprofits don’t know the date of birth of their donors. So let’s say you do research and you integrate just the date of birth into your donor database and you’re able to segment. Um, you know, suddenly you discover, as is the case with one of our clients on, I remember your rule about the difference between active and a passive plan giving program that they discovered they had 750 people over age 65. They were. They were not aware of that until they had their date of birth. And so now they have a better set of problems. They’re able to think about planned giving because they know they have a donor segment. That is ah, that matches that. So that is my definition of organizational growth, too. But a lot of of of us that we have the same problem over and over again, and that is being stuck. And I wrote this book to tease out ways to get unstuck, Um, and to try some new things within your thinking. First and foremost, this is a book about how to think about fundraising,

[00:10:45.37] spk_1:
a series of revelations, Syria’s revolution. So So we’ll talk about a bunch of them. You you talk about, uh, fundraising as, ah analogized Teoh. Dating, dating relationships. No, se little about that.

[00:13:19.24] spk_0:
Sure. So when two people meet, they have to learn what the other person’s up for. They have to learn their values, their mutual sexual attraction, their ability to work on and solve problems together. Now, absent the mutual sexual attraction, the same applies to getting to know your donors putting your donors first, uh, listening funders. Pushing back a little bit with your funders about what you’re really needs are having conversations that are thoughtful. And, um so, uh, getting to know the the revenue streams that you’re working through is just similar to dating, but without the sexual romantic energy listening, listening is critical and mentioned listening. And if you’re not sympathetic, simpatico if you’re not simpatico, um, like, uh, one donor who Who? I was trying to get a six figure gift from four teenage pregnancy prevention program. I’ve been telling this story for years. So pardoned, if you’ve heard it. But it was such a rich experience for me, you know, right early in the conversation, he said, You know, um, I don’t believe teen age should be having sex, and I just let the silence sit there. Of course, inside myself, I’m thinking, you know, e, I just lost the gift, but I just listened Ah, in a posture of tell me more. And then he said, I think honest peak, tony must two minutes must have passed. I really was starting to sweat a little bit, and then he said, but I that not chewy. And, uh, and the clients you serve need the kind of program that your agency is recommending. So let’s talk about how that would work. And so he was up for it, But he was starting from a place of his own, you know, position, but showing flexibility about thinking. So he was up for the dating relationship?

[00:13:26.44] spk_1:
Well, well, what may be the one night stand, but that you have that you have that story in the book. And he gay ended up giving $25,000 right? Because you were a good listener. So maybe that was a one time gift. So now,

[00:13:39.73] spk_0:
no, no, he gave for three years.

[00:13:53.54] spk_1:
I did. All right, All right. So it was a short term relationship. All right. All right. Um, our product, our product is impact. What’s that about?

[00:15:07.06] spk_0:
Well, too many people confuse that they’re giving to your non profit. You know, the bread for the world or partners and Hells or whatever the name of the non profit is, donors don’t give to your non profit. They give for the mission and the impact. And you have to be clear about, you know, with your gift will be ableto have more of an impact. Here’s the impact we’ve had. Here’s the aspirational impact that we’re looking for. Um, Bill, Sure, from share Our strength has been a real role model in the nonprofit sector. Ah, for talking about the rial overhead costs that we should be advocating before to really get the job done, He asked the provocative question, Um, if would you be satisfied if my overhead were 5%? But I didn’t feed All the hungry people came to me. Nurses. If it was 35% and I did feed them all, which would you prefer? And, ah, that that is a good question. And you could each agency could have their version of that, um, to talk about aspirational goals and, um, and and if because if you don’t define them, no one in no one else’s

[00:15:33.44] spk_1:
and you talk about the importance of measuring impact. Yeah, knowing what your return on investment is your r a y ah nde communicating, sharing that it’s it’s critical.

[00:17:02.98] spk_0:
Yes. So having not just an evaluation program that complies with the funders requirements as so many government contracts do, but having a new evaluation program that helps the staff make management decisions about what programs are working and what are not. When I was the non profit CEO of Harlem United for six years, our data showed us that are substance abuse case management program did okay, but what really kept people in sobriety was our pastoral counseling and pastoral care program. Because the clients it was it was nondenominational. It was a healing experience. And it had twice the amount of ah, of sobriety retention as our substance abuse counseling program did. If we hadn’t been looking at the data, we wouldn’t have known that. And so we took that news to religious oriented funders and hired three more pastoral counsellors and built a partnership with Hospital Chaplaincy Inc. Who trains pastoral counsellors. And, um, we have had, uh, we had a strong spike in sobriety amongst our clients. It was really quite beautiful. And it’s lasted for years,

[00:17:36.69] spk_1:
all from understanding what your data is revealing what your true impact is. Yeah. All right. You you mentioned staff were jumping around a little bit, but you you highlight that Ah used to think that clients should come first. But now you feel its staff should come first. Retention strategies, professional development. I don’t know if you mentioned mentoring, but that always comes up, you know, talk about investments and investments that are that need to be made in staff. And why you think staff is number one now,

[00:20:24.54] spk_0:
boy, if I come a long way as a as an advocate for the poor from being a teenager, Um, when I worked in a volunteer in a soup kitchen myself, thanks to my good old Teamster union dad, um, I never wavered from clients first, and, uh, but, um, it’s not that I’m saying clients take a back seat. I’m saying that if we make staff, primary clients will be better served ma staff retention that nonprofits is alarming. And worse yet, Ah, younger generations, um, leave the sector faster than our generation. Those of us in our fifties, they leave the sector faster. Um, because they have a bad experience with a board or the the poor. Compensation is not livable for their family. So but it’s not just about the conditions of employment. It’s also about is the non profit a learning environment A learning organization here at lap of fundraising we have just 1/2 a dozen shared values within our firm and professional development and advancement is, um is one of them, and we pay every year, every staff person has a professional development plan, right, and we pay for it. And, um, we’re happy to do it. Um, because people are staff will tell you. You know, we aspire whether we succeed at it completely, I don’t have to ask them, but we aspire to be a learning organization, not just learning on our accounts, but learning from best practices in the field and colleagues we bring colleagues in, um, we’re big into what’s called the any a gram in our workplace. It’s a it’s ah, it’s an emotional intelligence system for the workplace that that helps people understand how there are clients are viewing the world how they’re built. The India graham dot Any a gram institute dot or ge. I believe, um, would introduce you to it has some videos there,

[00:21:00.94] spk_1:
so we need to overcome Leave behind this idea that professional development technology to support staff. You know that these air luxuries, you know, we’re way cut. Being a couple of operating systems behind is okay, because it’s more important that we spend our money on the people or the programs. You know, that’s that’s that’s outdated, thinking you and what we’re seeing in terms of younger folks leaving the sector is bearing out that bearing out out. That’s evidence that we’re not providing what they’re looking for. So they try one or two jobs and then they leave. That’s that’s not talk about not sustainable.

[00:21:26.64] spk_0:
I could just hear some of your audience members saying asked Lawrence to tell me where to find money for technology improvements or, UM, or professional development.

[00:21:28.69] spk_1:
All right, well, good. You’re channeling the audience like Ideo. Ask the other. Answer them.

[00:23:19.64] spk_0:
It’s hard. Um, I know what what we do is we build it into our overhead rate and where we can we try to get so many nonprofits have such a low overhead rate, and that’s again back with Bill Shore was talking about, um, some government contracts actually curb you at 10% and most nonprofits haven’t overhead rate at least a 23 24% and arguably it should be probably close to the 35. I think all the major universities are somewhere north of 50% overhead. So trying to get it into your overhead and then, of course, looking form or general operating support by identifying donor advised funds, which, by definition, as you know tony, are hidden. There are profiles you could use to assume that somebody probably has a donor advised fund. We do that nor prospect research. And then, of course, we asked directly when we’re talking to them or serving them. So people who have donor advised funds are very friendly to, you know, odd costs or what? You know what the As contrast that to institutional funders where you get a grant for your program. Sometimes in those grants you can add a computer. You can say we need, you know, 40 hours of professional development. So integrating it into all your fund raising on into your overhead rate has worked with many of our clients. Um And then, of course, there’s rare occasions when on our f p is issued where you can ask for things like that.

[00:23:31.02] spk_1:
Uh huh. You doesn’t work with sterile needle exchange. Just talk about that a little bit. That sounds like a good story.

[00:24:36.14] spk_0:
Yeah, Harm reduction. Um, again, a better set of problems. Um, it’s better toe. Have needle. Ah, needle users use clean needles, then toe Have them keep using dirty needles because it reduces the spread off HIV and STDs. Ah, and blood born infections. Um, so that’s a better harm. Reduction is a better set of problems with science behind it. And, um, this is true not just in the United States, but in, uh, all throughout the world and European countries who have harm reduction policies. Harm reduction is still needed. It it’s kind of fallen out of fashion. There’s just a handful, maybe two or three funders who are interested in it. The drug policy alliance is still interested in it. And the Komer Foundation, if if they’re still around,

[00:24:40.50] spk_1:
what was What was your work in harm reduction?

[00:25:29.42] spk_0:
Uh, well, I had, uh, helped, um, the New York harm reduction Educators in the Bronx form a hotline so that people could reach them, and, uh, we went to check cashing stores. Um, where the poor, The poor in the Bronx generally don’t use a bank. They pay to have their check cashed, which is a scandal unto itself, but its exorbitant if we would expand the United States Postal Service is toe what it was in the 19 fifties. They they wouldn’t have have that. There’s a direct link between the reduction of the role of the U. S Postal Service in its role with money orders and check cashing and the the upswing of these four profit sleazy check cashing.

[00:25:38.50] spk_1:
Interesting. All right, we’re

[00:26:04.35] spk_0:
but any way went to the check cashing places. And yes, we paid them. We had to pay them when they cashed the cheque to put our business card for the the New York Harm Reduction Educators with 1 800 number on And we saw, on average, 800 new enrollees into the non profit to get access to HIV prevention and treatment service is

[00:27:17.24] spk_1:
I did. I did work in Philadelphia when I was in law school with an organization called Prevention Point, Philadelphia. It was it was a grassroots, sterile needle exchange. Excuse me. They were going toe parks in areas where they knew drug activity was high on weekends and literally distributing marked sterile needles marked so that they knew when they got their own back so they could had some. They had a measure of effectiveness. How many sterile needles were coming back and how maney unmarked needles So dirty needles they were getting off the streets, and that was incredibly rewarding. It was an internship, but just to see the the father’s walk up or drive up with a young child in tow and, you know, taking 1/2 a dozen needles and giving us 1/2 a dozen. Uh, but I know the statistics are there that it reduces on. This was 1989 1990. Uh, no. HIV was much more dangerous than it is now.

[00:28:41.54] spk_0:
And he’s here. You see in art in the conversation right now between tony and I, how a fund raiser discovers his or her product to sell. This is what fundraisers do at the highest level. We listen to the caseworkers to the clients, to the statistics to the the best practice studies, for example, with a affordable housing program that I’m starting to work within Orlando, Florida The executive director was blown away because the first thing we were starting to do is we’ve read 10 years worth of completely boring but totally relevant thinking from the Orlando Housing Authority about their needs assessments. They do them, they’re required to do them every 10 years. And those documents are chock full with with really good data. Um, I mean, that’s something to be a proud of in our country is we still have some semblance of these local civic governments that are doing their due diligence about community need. Um, but this is how fundraisers then get a very powerful case for support develop. Um, and uh huh. That’s why there’s a chapter about impact and the the the product is your program, and it’s a

[00:30:33.04] spk_1:
we need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software. Their accounting product, Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two reopening from Corona virus. That’s the special episode with Lisa Brauner. I just want to make sure that you heard it. It’s very good, very relevant, and I don’t want you to miss it if, uh, if you’re just sampling the show. Perhaps those were listening to every show, of course. All three of you, Cheryl, Rick and my dad. I’m just kidding about that. My dad doesn’t even know what a podcast is. So for Cheryl and Rick, I know that you are covered, but everybody else, Lisa is very smart. It’s a valuable show. We talk about dozens of issues for you to consider. As you plan to reopen your office reopening from Corona virus, you’ll find it at tony-martignetti dot com. Oh, and please, please keep taking care of yourself. Do it each day. You need it. You deserve it. Please do it. That is tony. Stick to now back to Lawrence Paige. Tony Panyu. Tony. He’s chairman of lap of fundraising. We’re talking about his book fundraising for 01 You talk about the donor as hero? What, uh, what are you thinking there?

[00:30:36.04] spk_0:
Well, uh,

[00:30:37.68] spk_1:
all right. Share your thinking. I know what you’re thinking cause I read your I read your book. So listen, you just got to get the book. If you want to flush out the full thunk thinking Sure. The launch will introduce you to his thinking as donors as heroes,

[00:32:16.34] spk_0:
so many appeal letters or annual reports or newsletter. They make the client the hero. There’s there’s wisdom to that. They make the organization itself the hero. But in fund raising, the donor is the hero. And I grew up in a non profit sector that ignored that the ascent ignored the donor. The essential message to the donor for most of my life has been give and shut up. Um, but today’s donor wants to be heard. They want to be acknowledged. They will give MME. Or they will become more involved. It was Terry Axelrod, the founder of the Bena von model of fundraising that started to give me a hint that donors wanted to be engaged, and then the data bore that out. Um, I’ve started to take on clients who would tell me, Oh, we could never ask. Are our volunteers for money? I haven’t heard that question in the past five years or so. Ah, better set of problems, I think. I think people are more convinced that they realize their donors want to give and hello out there. If you think your dough. If you still think your donors, your volunteers going to No. Well, please evaluate that. Read my book and evaluate that because your volunteers want to give

[00:33:07.07] spk_1:
you, uh, one little quote, you say as your writing. You know, as you’re writing to your donors, um, tell the story as if the donor were sitting before you over a cup of coffee. Uh, you suggest you see their smile, speak their name? Um, you make it up, make it a conversation. You know, this idea of stilted language? Uh, you have to fill in 8.5 by 11 page sheet of paper. Maybe. Sometimes you do. But if you don’t need to, then don’t. Um, handwriting, handwriting and written solicitations could be probably more sincere than something you produce on word and feel constrained, compelled to Philip age around. So no, get close and talk to people like like you would like to be talked to.

[00:33:25.56] spk_0:
I learned from Tom Ahern about some of the nuances about making the donor the hero, and it actually influenced my book cover. You could see you know,

[00:33:26.88] spk_1:
Darcis holding listening marches, holding up his book cover. Okay,

[00:34:17.64] spk_0:
going below, there’s a hook with a dollar sign going below the surface of the water Because the point is to rid to raise the big money you have, Teoh, think more deeply about fundraising and what’s motivating the donor. Um, but we start making the case right on the cover of a newsletter or a case for support. We recently did a case for support for an animal welfare agency where we put a picture of the Cubist cat on one case and the cute his dog on the other with their owners who had just adopted them holding them. But right underneath that we put the question, How can we ever say no? So we’re we’re saying to the donor,

[00:34:20.74] spk_1:
it wasn’t How can you How can you say no if you

[00:34:23.95] spk_0:
ever say no?

[00:34:24.74] spk_1:
Yeah, right. How can you say you ever seen get the you? You gotta get you with yours in there.

[00:34:28.90] spk_0:
That you in there?

[00:34:43.14] spk_1:
Okay, so I read the book you missed. You blew the Holt. Whole Point is, you gotta have the u in there. Not how can we get You are sorry. Um um

[00:34:44.44] spk_0:
you your it’s all about you.

[00:35:24.47] spk_1:
Yes, using yours. I know. Tom Ahern stresses that he even has a calculator on the Web somewhere. It might be a hearn dot com or something where you can put your text in and it’ll evaluate how many years you have versus how many wees or something like that, right? But I’m constantly I’m constantly rewriting, you know, the can we change the to you, the donor, Your you, your donors? I mean, as I am writing to clients instead of the donors, your donors, you’re talking now to the second person instead of the abstract third person, the donor that could be anybody’s donors. No, we’re talking about your donors, your donor. That’s just not not in the abstract. I think it bring. It makes it more concrete than using the site. That second person.

[00:35:51.64] spk_0:
Yeah, and it also it’s It’s not just a linguistic shift. There’s research science behind it. Psychology, science, psychological sciences behind it that the donors feel like Oh, he really is talking about me and and so we raise more money with that approach.

[00:35:54.39] spk_1:
By the way, did I did I mispronounce your name when I introduced you?

[00:35:59.14] spk_0:
I know. You

[00:36:00.34] spk_1:
know I didn’t I had hoped that I had met mispronounced your name because I had hoped that by now 6.5 years later you had changed the pronunciation of Panyu. Tony, why are you still defacing your beautiful Italian names with

[00:36:14.79] spk_0:
parents? It’s worse than that. The whole name on the bastard bastard birth certificate is Lorenzo Antonio Paige non. Tony?

[00:36:22.66] spk_1:
Yes, Panyu tony, why are you started

[00:36:25.28] spk_0:
the opera? You know

[00:36:26.63] spk_1:
I know you. You are in 2013. You mentioned your

[00:36:33.25] spk_0:
grandmother. Grandmothers? Uh uh. She loved the operating that she tell me that old time your name’s a little opera.

[00:37:18.63] spk_1:
I would rather you take the g out to make it pan, tony, or it switches to panini or something. Please. But you’re you’re killing the beautiful pronunciation. Panya non. I’ll try, tony. I promise to try. All right, it’s worth It’s worth the investment. It’s worth the investment in changing the pronunciation, not dispelling just a pronunciation. People will still be able to find you on the web. All right, um, you said you say all donors are major donors and following from that all gifts of major gifts. What? What? What is that to me? We know we’re stratify ing. We have our modest donors because we’re too afraid to call them small donors that we say their modest And then we have our mid level and major and then, you know, may be ultra. But you say all old owners are major donors.

[00:39:54.42] spk_0:
Yes, because nobody has to give a dime to you. Nobody has to give their hard earned money to you. Nobody has to on because of that, they all should be treated in a major way. Now, of course, in the systems of fundraising, we might have automation in place. Hope thoughtful automation for donors who are, you know, from $1 to say, $5000 for major donors or transformational donors at the higher levels. You know, we have a more personal touch. It’s expensive. Major gift officers who know what they’re doing are have come at a higher salary because their skills are honed over years and they know how to deeply listen and use the data to ask for transformational gifts, multiyear gifts, legacy gifts. Um, but, um but but I’m trying to convey that we shouldn’t take any dollar, no matter the size amount for granted that that they don’t have to give and people are giving, you know Jesus pointed out in Scripture. The widow’s mite was greater than the Faris ease giving because she gave from her heart and she gave from her want. And, um so I had to learn again. Just like with professional development. I had a learned this the hard way. My development I belly eight about donor giving less than I thought he he could have My development director quietly closed the door, sat down with that white flustered look on his face like Lawrence. Jesus, Mother God, you know, what am I gonna do with you? You’re supposed to be our leader. And he said to me lardons every gift is a major one and he didn’t have to give that gift. And that’s a real story. And I went silent and I thought about it. And I thought, You know, that’s That’s damn true. Yeah, eventually, that donor, because of the way my development director treated him so kingly. He did give at much higher levels later on. But nobody has to give us a dime.

[00:40:19.62] spk_1:
Generous would be proud of you. Still still quoting, still quoting scripture that influence that’s with you forever, I’m sure. Yeah. Uh, something else you. You, ah, seems provocative. That you devote a chapter to is, uh, revenue diversification. You you tell us it’s overrated. Flush that out. Would you?

[00:41:37.61] spk_0:
For smaller organizations, divert revenue diversification is really essential. I’m not naive about that, but it’s expensive to do well. Um, most smaller organizations barely have. Well, the profile most organizations is that they don’t even have a development office state. They have the program director and the executive director rights to grants or, um, manages the gala. They might bring in a gala event consultant, but, um, when when Stanford University did a study of think it was 130 major nonprofits who had gotten over $50 million annual revenues, they discovered that diversification of revenue went down. And that study was a seminal piece of research that changed our thinking about diversification. So as a non profit grows to a better set of problems, um, its revenue should stream should become deeper, not wider, and a

[00:41:38.56] spk_1:
few 1,000,000,000. What’s deeper in what’s most successful,

[00:43:00.34] spk_0:
that’s right and most lucrative. For example, Habitat for Humanity. They started with, um in kind donations as there biggest source of revenue that the stuff that they needed for the houses that they were building good stuff, not just, you know, poor quality stuff. But then they realized that the people who donated that stuff were willing to donate. And so they started an individual donor program that eventually grew as they did. Don’t a research to major major gift program, and they went deeper and deeper into that source of revenue individual giving they before monthly giving. They formed eventually on line giving. They formed legacy societies. So within each revenue stream, you can create enormous depth. And, ah, instead of expanding outside, could habitat taken government money is probably some of them eventually did in localities that where the local government said, Hey, we wanna help because this is part of our community development, a program. And so they got some

[00:43:46.04] spk_1:
time for our last break turned to communications. They’re former journalists, so you get help getting your message through. It is possible to be heard through the Corona virus cacophony. Plus, you want toe prepare, you got a plan to build media relationships. When all this noise subsides, there is a future after this. They know exactly what to do for you. They’re a turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got, but loads more time for fundraising for 01 This is also an example of where you need to invest in staff. You know, if you want. If you want to go deeper in the in the channel, the fundraising method that’s that’s most lucrative for you. You’re gonna have to do it with a professional who’s got an experience, got experience in that in that channel and maybe others as well. But it can’t continually be the executive director trying to deep in fundraising in the most look from the most lucrative source and manage the organization. Oversee the programs in short compliance. I mean, this is where you have to invest. If you want to be among those few charities that gets to the whatever 50 or $55 million level. You know it’s doable, but you need to invest in growth.

[00:44:58.44] spk_0:
When I last talked to you in 2013 our firm talked a good game about Prospect Research Service is, and we did. We did deliver some service is, but we got honest with ourselves that we had to invest. Seven years later, we have you know, a six person T and we do Don’t a research. Now we find I mean, we found 108,000 new donors. Value aligned donors for Lutheran Social Service is we found 8000 new donors for the food bank in New Jersey. Um, we found ah, 42 new board member candidates for ST Christopher’s Inn and Garrison, New York.

[00:45:15.86] spk_1:
I mean, our donor from in investing in Prospect Research.

[00:45:24.09] spk_0:
Yeah, and and also the field itself has matured and developed. And it’s not just about the data. It’s about using how to use the data off when you marry the data of vendors with a trained fundraiser. That’s where you have the alchemy

[00:45:37.49] spk_1:
and you have a whole. You have a chapter devoted to not underfunding advancement, development. It’s called development for a reason. You make the point. It needs to grow, and if you’re gonna grow it, you got to invest in it. So don’t under fund your development. Ah,

[00:46:02.77] spk_0:
and by the way, I just gave you the tip for my the book. The next book, How to Find New Donors, which will be out sometime in 2021.

[00:46:04.50] spk_1:
You’re doing a prospect research book.

[00:46:29.78] spk_0:
Yeah. Uh, interesting. You call it that? I’m not sure. It’s funny. Um, I I’m professionally, I’m a fundraiser. I’m not a prospect researcher. Yeah, I use the tools. I know it in good prospect researchers. Obviously, we have them here at the firm E. And I know I’m not one of them, but I’m a fund raiser who uses the data So that put the books about. It’s a nuance, maybe a distinction without a difference. But But there are very wonky. Very good prospect research books out there that I couldn’t possibly Right.

[00:46:54.18] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. But, um, I still have some other things I want to cover with you. We got, like, another 10 minutes or so left, but, uh, let me throw to you. What do you want to talk about from the book?

[00:47:08.48] spk_0:
Well, right off, I’d like Teoh, uh, invite the reader to to actually read it. I talked to a lot of fund raisers, and I’m not

[00:47:16.38] spk_1:
convinced. Sounds like that. I think that’s sound advice for a book. Ah, Book author? Yeah. Assumed my book, for God’s sake.

[00:47:26.48] spk_0:
Well, I actually learned this from a terrific fundraiser. Who headed up the Heyman Institute, Um, at New York University. Ah, Naomi Levine.

[00:47:32.24] spk_1:
Had I had her on the show years ago? Yes, I

[00:48:20.87] spk_0:
remember. Naomi, you know, kicked my butt around. Lawrence, you know, you have to read not just in our field, extensively. But you have to read in the field of economics in the field of sociology in the field of of, ah, science because the donors are expert in those fields. I remember going into a meeting with an engineer on a plan gift. And, um, he mentioned something that I had read because of Naomi suggestion about the field of of environmental engineering. And I said to him, You know, I know enough to be dangerous, but are you talking about, you know, corrosive engineering protection and his I split up? How the hell did you know that?

[00:48:24.77] spk_1:
You learned those words and friends. Corrosive engineering protection. And

[00:49:05.17] spk_0:
there’s affinity on this is our job. Is fundraising whites or amazing field? You? Never, if you’re bored, is a fundraiser. Holy cow. Your read my book and find out. You know, a way to become a non board. But my point, tony, is that so many fundraisers. Our stayed there. Kind of. They know what they know. Um, I could tell you at this time in my life more about what I don’t know about fund raising that then what I know about it and why I surround myself with good thinkers myself. And I’ve been told that this book and this is my second point is both helpful for somebody advanced in fundraising like yourself. And it’s also helpful for people who are new or mid career that it’s a very approachable book. Primarily because I tell stories that are based in reality. And I then give the more advanced theory behind it.

[00:49:32.27] spk_1:
Yeah, So I grab it. Is it is it You

[00:49:34.44] spk_0:
found that to be the case?

[00:49:46.87] spk_1:
It is approachable. Yeah. Um, it’s my turn again now. So you you have advice for ah CEO? Um, decision making and also CEO as fundraiser. So I want to put those two together and and explore what? What? Decisions about fundraising are appropriate at the CEO level.

[00:51:16.76] spk_0:
So, uh, knowing the plan and understanding the plan of how to move to a better set of problems, do you have the same fund raising dilemma year in and year out. That’s the CEO’s job to kick the boards, but and the the development teams. But ah ah, because so many fundraising programmes have the same problem year in and year out. That means it’s stuck and, um, and that’s primarily on the shoulders of the CEO. Uh, the underfunding of the development team that’s on the shoulders of the CEO. The CEO has to find the revenue to fund the capacity to pay for developed. Um, and I offer many on my blawg at lap of fundraising dot com. I offer you know, thousands of suggestions about how toe pay for fundraising, and, um so there’s two examples Ah, third example I’d give of the CEOs job and fundraising. Is it? They have to, um, boxed the ears or guide the boards in

[00:51:18.74] spk_1:
the stage box. Just 60 years, Yeah, box that years of war guide, okay

[00:51:24.20] spk_0:
or guide? That’s they would guide

[00:51:26.18] spk_1:
whose chooser is somewhere in that spectrum.

[00:51:59.21] spk_0:
Somewhere that spectrum. They have to guide the board’s way to think about fund raising because boards who know nothing about fundraising are sitting there in judgment of professional fund raisers who have you know, 25 years of experience. There’s, They wouldn’t do that to the program director. Some of them do. But that’s another set of problems. They wouldn’t. They generally don’t do it to their attorneys. They wouldn’t. They certainly don’t do it to their auditors. They feel free to do it to their fundraisers,

[00:52:07.34] spk_1:
things they would never do in their own business. They do, uh, routinely some boards, you know, to the CEO and the program staff of the board. Who’s the non profit, whose boards they said on. And you talk about a heavy lifting board gotta have a heavy lifting board.

[00:53:18.95] spk_0:
Yes, governance is a thing. Governance is not for every volunteer. Its governance is not just for, um, the person who likes your mission or whose son or daughter benefited from from your mission. Governance is a business proposition that the nonprofit sector has designed, Um, and it has roles and responsibilities for not just fugitive fiduciary roles, but for long range planning. It’s the job of the executive team to think about the next three years, but it’s the job of the board to think about the next 5 to 10 years. Yeah, and most boards never really think about the long term plan now, you know, planning in this day and age is is it is it anachronistic? I don’t think it is but a little bit old fashioned, but I think plans should be nimble and changed. But you should still have, Ah, a long range plan about what you want to look like in 5 to 10 years.

[00:54:01.14] spk_1:
Yeah, that heavy lifting board and in terms of fundraising as well. And you make the point that campaigns could be a very good I very good vehicle for, ah recycling board or replacing board members that aren’t that aren’t heavy lifting. Maybe there’s an advisory council they can go on or some kind of America’s status so that they’re not embarrassed but still age. But But they’re not. But they’re not a fiduciary any longer. With those obligations and eso right, we have just like a minute or so left. Uh, leave us. Leave us with something, but do it concisely, please.

[00:55:46.67] spk_0:
Oh, we’re in the middle of as you and I record this were in the middle of the cove in 19 Pandemic. The nonprofits that are raising more money through this pandemic are the ones with a deep culture of philanthropy and that culture philanthropy is defined by resiliency. Resilience. Um, if you’re serious about the next pandemic or about your own viability in the future, the 23 chapters of this book well, deep in your culture of philanthropy so that you’re more prepared for the future. If you’re assessing yourself right now as that you were not ready for this pandemic, do not beat yourself up. But take it as a wake up call to start getting ready for the economic crisis that we’re going to be living through for the next couple of years, and for the very much needed reform of our health care system, so that the poor and uh, communities of color are better served than what we’re seeing in Cove in 19. And so that’s a real reason to read this right now. Tony, You and I have lived through many crisis is, and Cove in 19 certainly has its own characteristics that are unique. But, um, there are always crisis is that we face, and we have to be more resilient with a deeper culture of philanthropy, and fundraising for a one will help you get there.

[00:55:59.84] spk_1:
That’s the book fundraising for a one master classes in non profit fundraising that would make Peter Drucker proud. He’s Lawrence Ape Agnone lap.

[00:56:02.63] spk_0:
The

[00:56:02.74] spk_1:
company is labra lap of fundraising dot com and at lap of fundraising. Lawrence. Thank you very, very much. My pleasure.

[00:56:10.00] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Thank you

[00:57:29.30] spk_1:
for sharing. Okay. Next week, more 20 and TC panel interview Greatness. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com My Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission turned hyphen. Two dot ceo creative producer is Clear My wrath. Sam Liebowitz Managed stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our guy. This music is by Scott’s time with me next week for not profit radio, big non profit ideas. 14 of their 95% go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for April 10, 2020: Turbocharge Your Grants Fundraising

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John Hicks: Turbocharge Your Grants Fundraising
John Hicks returns with 9 steps that will burn the tires off your grants program. He’s principal and founder of DLBHICKS, LLC consulting. (Originally aired February 23, 2018)

 

 

 

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[00:00:13.74] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit

[00:00:58.80] spk_4:
radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with Lissa if you bit me with the idea that you missed today’s show Turbo Charge your grants fundraising. John Hicks returns with nine steps that will burn the tires off your grants program. He’s principal and founder of De LB Hicks, L. L C Consulting. This originally aired on February 23rd of 2018 feet Land last week was grantmakers relationships. See how you see how it all ties together. This show is so heavily produced on tony Steak, too. I’m channeling You were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com Not heavily produced. Not just that, but expertly produced but Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Martin for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here is John Hicks.

[00:01:27.42] spk_3:
What a pleasure

[00:01:27.86] spk_0:
to welcome back John Hicks. We

[00:01:29.85] spk_3:
believe this is his third time on the show c f r EE principle

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and founder of De LB Hicks, a consulting firm providing fundraising and grant seeking guidance to nonprofits from grassroots to global. His

[00:01:42.84] spk_3:
career spans over 30 years.

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He’s on the faculty of Columbia University’s Masters degree in non profit management, teaching grant writing, and he’s a lecturer for Rector’s University’s Institute for Ethical Leadership. He’s at de lb Hicks and de lb hicks dot

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com. John Hicks Welcome back to the studio.

[00:02:01.62] spk_5:
It’s great to be here.

[00:02:06.51] spk_3:
My pleasure to have you d l B D L b All we keep. Here’s deal be I love the story behind Deal Be Tell it

[00:02:15.34] spk_5:
Sure thing L B stands for Dylan’s lightbulb, as in Bob Dylan. Um, years ago, I came across a copy of D. A. Pennebaker’s great documentary Don’t Look Back, Bob Dylan’s 1965 tour of the U. K. Early in the film, Dylan’s getting off the plane at Heathrow Airport in these walking of this press conference, carrying a large light bulb, and he’s getting asked all the innocuous questions, you know, Are you folk? What is your message? And someone asked me, what is your message is my message. Keep good head. Always carry a light bulb.

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And I thought that

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was probably about the best piece of advice I’ve ever heard in my life. And I adopted is a personal mantra. And so when I launched my own firm, I said,

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You know, I’m gonna

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work. Deal, be into this. Get the light bulb in there. And that’s t l B. If you go to the website, you can learn a little more about that incident.

[00:03:05.82] spk_0:
And the home page has ah lightbulb image.

[00:03:09.19] spk_5:
It has a light bulb. Do

[00:03:10.77] spk_0:
we know why Dylan was carrying, like, both Do we know

[00:03:13.05] spk_5:
this day? And no one knows, I think is the typical Bob Dylan thing where somebody handed him a white bombings like this is cool.

[00:03:20.55] spk_0:
Or maybe it’s not, but I’ll make it cool. Okay.

[00:03:22.74] spk_5:
They’re identical radio.

[00:03:24.83] spk_3:
All right. Um, glad to have you back.

[00:03:27.36] spk_4:
I love it. You can come to studio all the time. Wonderful.

[00:03:29.48] spk_5:
Yeah. It’s great to be here.

[00:03:32.04] spk_3:
Um all right. So you got you got these nine

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tips for Ah, um, Turbo charging. You know, kicking up your grants program to the next level. Um, and you’ve got some advice that coincides with the panel that was on last week when I moderated at the Foundation center. Right? That’s cool.

[00:03:57.02] spk_3:
Um, so let’s I mean, let’s Ah, let’s let’s let’s overview first. What are what? What do you

[00:03:59.39] spk_0:
feel like? Non profits just generally are not getting quite right. Man, you got nine tips here about things that not profit should be doing better. But

[00:04:08.34] spk_3:
just eyes the thinking, not right around grants.

[00:04:10.60] spk_0:
I mean, what what generally, what could we be doing? Smarter. Thinking better differently about Grant What grants wise?

[00:04:18.64] spk_3:
Well, I was

[00:04:19.22] spk_5:
looking at grants is being the kind of philanthropy that brings to things to the table for a charity they bring. A grant will bring you cash and those rings you cachet. Okay, so it’s, um

[00:04:30.19] spk_0:
thank you. Somebody else’s supporting you that they believe in your work. Exactly. If you non profit radio sponsors. Yeah,

[00:05:35.37] spk_5:
you got it. And the thing about getting grant funding is that you go through a more of a due diligence process, which means that if I’m able to go to AA donor even if it’s an individual donor and say I have a grant from this foundation, of that foundation, and particularly if it’s a pretty well known foundation. Um, it says to that person, Have you been through due diligence process? And so I think First of all, it’s getting non profits to think about what part does a grant or grants for a grants program play in their philanthropy? And, um, also, I think it’s the heart of the nine steps to turbo charging your grants outreach. It’s It’s all about rethinking your agency. It’s like rethinking your story. And how do you use that to engage foundations at a much higher level? And I think I’ve always said that any charity could do this. I mean, it is This is not just large charities. I think grassroots charities.

[00:05:38.16] spk_0:
We wouldn’t be on non profit radio. This is all really for the $1,000,000,000 endowment and above.

[00:05:45.52] spk_5:
You got it? Okay.

[00:05:46.10] spk_3:
No, no. For sure they can. And that’s that’s why that panel

[00:05:48.51] spk_0:
was so valuable. Last That was last week. Yeah, I think there was

[00:06:15.68] spk_5:
a lot of discussion about this. I mean, if you if your listeners go back and listen to that, um, that podcast again, I mean, you’re gonna hear these grantmakers talk about the importance not only of engagement, but it’s coming in with a story in a vision for where your organization’s going next. And if you can get them to buy into that direction, you can not only get a grant that you could maybe could get a sizable grant or an impactful grant.

[00:06:20.91] spk_0:
And that term grand. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, changing the conversation. Okay. And you’ve got ideas on that coming up. You know, thinking long term versus immediate and what’s recurring costs, etcetera. And what’s growth costs we’ll get. Okay,

[00:06:34.29] spk_3:
so that’s a so the 1st 1 you have, um, focusing on

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the right, the right kind of money Thio ask for

[00:07:03.23] spk_5:
right. I think it’s understanding where your organization is in not trying thio under reach or overreach. So I think the important thing is I see a lot of charities come in and say, You know, I’m under feeling under a lot of pressure from my board or the staff that I have to go for the gold swing for the fences and get gates may not be the right fit for you. It’s choosing the part of the donor pool. You want to swim in a CZ I’m find of telling clients, Um, and the other part of raising the right money is making sure that you’re not getting money that sets up expectations that you can’t fulfill. This is another thing I run into is a consultant is walking in the door and seeing a lot of grants literally lying around where the agency is struggling to fulfill the promises made. But they just weren’t able to bring the rest of the money. And so it’s making sure that you’re driving the bus. That money is coming in to support your priorities and what you do Well,

[00:07:34.04] spk_0:
yeah. Um, So what? What causes this? This gap is it is not adequate planning on the part of the part of

[00:07:42.38] spk_3:
York. It can

[00:08:16.02] spk_5:
be inadequate planning. But, you know, I’m also fundraiser, and I acknowledge that a lot of us were there a lot of pressure to produce. And so it could be that, you know, we have boards. We have bosses. Who are you asking us to go for this grant? That grant. And, you know, you’re just you’re in response mode. The nine steps, I think get us back into doing this proactively so later in our conversation will talk about things like a strategic agenda and envisioning. And that kind of helps us, you know, move the ball forward, but close

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this gap between expectations and and reality. It’s

[00:08:22.04] spk_5:
usually you said it better than I did, tony,

[00:08:24.16] spk_3:
Uh, most guests say that. So don’t be surprised what this point out

[00:08:30.06] spk_0:
is that you’re surprised that I Okay,

[00:08:30.40] spk_3:
hold that thought.

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It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As so that your 9 90 gets filed on time so that your audit is finished on time so that you get the advice of an experienced partner. You each tomb and affirm that has a nationwide non profit practice with thousands of audits and nine nineties under its belt. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Now more of turbo charge your grants. Fundraising.

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Let’s go back

[00:09:10.90] spk_0:
to John and turbocharging your grants. Fundraising. Um, yes. So we’ve got ideas coming up that are gonna close this gap. Basically, um, let’s see

[00:09:14.48] spk_3:
what you want. Talk about next.

[00:09:15.84] spk_0:
What do you uh you You You you go.

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What? We

[00:09:19.80] spk_5:
were talking about visioning, and maybe we should talk a little bit about gold setting because I think that’s it

[00:09:24.46] spk_0:
certainly related to what we’re just talking about. If you don’t, you don’t have the goals right Then the expectations are gonna have that gap between what you asked for and what they’re expecting,

[00:09:31.52] spk_5:
right? So, um, a

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lot of

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cases gold setting stops at raise more money and you did last year. Our costs are going up. Here’s where the costs are going up, and that’s pretty much the end of the conversation. And what I’ve come to find out over time is that the organizations that seem to do a better job of getting money on the grant seeking side are the ones who think about their goals into categories. There’s, um, sustaining goals, which is essentially what are carrying costs just for the operations and carrying constant program. So we still need to bring money in to make sure we keep the doors open. We’ll keep doing the essential work that we do best. But then there’s another set of goals which relate to investment. So I call these investment goals and I only think of it is you put money in, you’re going to get a return on it, and we’re going to do something a bit more than you know we’re doing right now. So when the operation site he could be staffing, it could be strategic planning could be capacity building and never on the program. Inside, it’s all about creating new programs and growing new programs for growing the programs that you

[00:10:40.45] spk_0:
have. So this carrying costs versus new investment, right? Um,

[00:10:46.08] spk_3:
it’s It’s not This is not, Is not

[00:11:17.71] spk_0:
the same is short term versus long term Now I think it’s because carrying costs could be long term correct, Right? It is it those air like you’re basically your overhead eyes that fair or now nobody’s that’s program its program to write its programming. It’s just feel free to say you’re wrong. I’m not gonna shut your Michael. Uhm, we re very rarely Occasionally we do, but I won’t let you. So uh, okay, so it’s not that right. It’s, um it’s you You’re forced to think long term. If you want to make this type of, you know, new investment kind of asks,

[00:11:54.83] spk_5:
right? Exactly. I mean, I know another way of putting this Is that sometimes, you know, I, um yeah, I’m so privileged to meet incredible people who were working miracles with small amounts of money. They come in with a fairly small, modest program. But when you look at what they’re doing, they’re making some pretty deep meaningful change in people’s lives. And sometimes I’m so blown away by what they’re doing with limited resource is I’m I look at them and say, You know, if you’re doing this on a shoestring, imagine if we had the shoe. Yeah, she was all about the investment grand. Where do we go next? And how do we take this? And either deep in it are are make it bigger,

[00:12:06.00] spk_0:
look atyou extending the shoestring metaphor. Hey, So smart. Okay, So insightful. Okay, no friends if we had to shoot. All right. All right. Um, but now this. You know, there might be a fear of putting the putting the potential funder off, because now we’re asking for more money. And if we’re looking for this new investment kind of money,

[00:12:25.01] spk_3:
we’re not gonna

[00:12:25.59] spk_5:
put a thunder off by asking for more money. If the money has a purpose. I mean, think about it this way. I remember

[00:12:31.64] spk_0:
this sounds important years. They’re not gonna put a funder off by asking for more.

[00:12:34.74] spk_3:
I don’t think something. Yeah, I Years

[00:13:07.02] spk_5:
ago, I heard Abigail Disney talking to a group of non profits at an event here in New York City. And something she said was that she says, Yeah, I have a lot of money and I’m a philanthropist. But without you, my money means nothing, because I don’t go where you go. I don’t do what you do. I don’t see what you see. When I find you. You become my ears and you become my eyes and you become my hands. And

[00:13:07.42] spk_3:
any

[00:13:07.75] spk_5:
organization can be part of that

[00:13:18.48] spk_0:
picture. That’s why, don’t you? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So ask for what you need, not what you think will be approved. As for

[00:13:20.21] spk_5:
what you need, what

[00:13:20.89] spk_0:
do you think you’ll get

[00:13:48.71] spk_5:
and and and ask for funding that’s going to get you to the right opportunity. So I always feel that philanthropy is about the possibilities, what we’re able to do next about opportunity. I remember once I had was working with an organization here in the city and the CEO was taking a grantmakers through the building and showing him the program and talking about program growth. And halfway through the visit, the thunder looked at the CEO and said, Look, I know you’re going to be coming to me with a grant proposal. Just make sure you ask me for enough money to do what you need to do. So you don’t have to come back and ask me again.

[00:14:04.84] spk_0:
Yeah. All right. They want to be asked for yesterday. Right? Uh, tony with foundations.

[00:14:11.47] spk_5:
Remember, we’re dealing with the donor constituency that’s in the business of giving money away. Yeah. So let’s help them do their jobs,

[00:14:28.46] spk_0:
and they want to do it right? They don’t want it. Ah, half cocked. And then, like you said, you know, a request to come back, uh, having to come back in 18 months because you didn’t ask for enough. Right? That looks bad because you look at your not about you. Not a good

[00:14:38.32] spk_3:
planner then. And you did the best you

[00:14:39.44] spk_5:
can. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances, but you have put some thought into it. And I think you know most of our listeners. I’m sure do this, so yeah,

[00:14:46.98] spk_0:
well, we’re making sure that they will. Now,

[00:14:49.47] spk_5:
there we go.

[00:15:01.84] spk_0:
I’m glad you said our listeners before you says my listeners and, uh And then you kept talking, so I let it go. But this time you said our listeners are Our listeners are our listeners, right? Pronouns non profit radio. Uh, we should make that a takeaway on to make that my takeaways. Okay. Um, all right, so we have carrying costs versus new investment money. Now we have sustaining grants versus investment grants. What it’s supposed to do You want us to be thinking about these? What does this mean,

[00:15:20.50] spk_3:
Right, So it’s thinking about yourself in jail. It z it’s

[00:16:13.52] spk_5:
sustaining Great. It’s the stating expenses, investment expenses and then the you have to think sustaining an investment grants and the way you write these things are a bit different. I mean, sustaining is essentially you’re making the case in the proposal, the application for why we need to keep the doors open and keep doing what we’re doing. And I think these grants get driven by results. Here’s what we accomplished last year. Here’s what we have the promise of continuing to do this year with investment, grand proposals. You’re talking about kicking it up a notch, and you know where we’re going next to me. Here’s the roadmap here. The opportunities. This is why we’re trying to grow a program from $100,000.150,000 dollars. And the idea is it’s investment. I’m asking you to put money in with the promise. Or at least I’m the best of my ability. I’m promising that we’re going to get some stronger results. And so it’s, I think it’s a little the way the proposal gets presented it. It’s probably a little bit different in terms of some of the language and some of the presentation. Perhaps.

[00:16:23.16] spk_3:
Now, this sounds

[00:16:23.64] spk_0:
like some some of what was talked about in the panel. Ah, that we have had on last week.

[00:16:40.31] spk_5:
Yeah, yeah. You had a number of the grantmakers he talked about, You know that you have to not only just come in and show us the opportunities, but, you know, you have to show us that you have Ah, I’m going to use the metaphor of road map. You have an idea of how to get from point A to point B and why my money’s gonna make a difference. One of things. I talked to my students a lot about in the class at Columbia. Is that

[00:16:52.61] spk_0:
Yes, Professor. Go ahead. Sure you’re the sugar wisdom. You’re not a

[00:16:55.87] spk_5:
professor. You know, they we talked a lot about risk mitigation, which is maybe an odd thing to talk about in a class on grants. But

[00:17:05.28] spk_3:
the end of

[00:17:33.84] spk_5:
the day, a lot of what we’re doing for donors, just for major donor, you can do it for foundation is your mitigating risk. You don’t want the donor to feel that they’re putting a lot of risk on the table when they give you money. So in what we’re fortunate in the world of foundations as we can, right? A thoughtful grant proposal. Make a nice presentation. I can show you how to get from point A to point B so I can give you Exhibit A. So

[00:17:49.90] spk_0:
now subsumed in this by the way, road map, isa Fine, metaphor. Just you don’t go to automobiles that drive on roads, because then I won’t fall. You know, Like I said, I think the intra my first experience with a Phillips head screwdriver was very bad. So you can imagine me with a set of ratchets or whatever those things are called. Um,

[00:17:55.48] spk_3:
this sounds a lot like the Arno subsumed

[00:18:15.49] spk_0:
in this, though, is the thing that I get asked a lot of I hear a lot about it. Should you ask for overhead support in your in your grants and subsumed in all this is is a definite yes, right? I mean, you gotta keep the lights on. You keep salaries paid my approaching Mr Right

[00:18:16.31] spk_3:
way. What you are. I

[00:18:37.51] spk_5:
mean, that’s a question that comes up quite frequently. Is that do Foundation’s fund overhead expenses? I think First of all, there’s ah, there’s, ah, misguided notion that foundations don’t like to pay for overhead. There’s a few foundations who don’t, but most of them understand it, and they get it. Um, I mean,

[00:18:37.95] spk_3:
me that’s essential. These essential, essential expenses.

[00:18:40.24] spk_5:
They are essential

[00:18:41.44] spk_0:
to carry out the program if I can’t pay my rent.

[00:18:43.51] spk_5:
Exactly. And And the

[00:18:44.64] spk_3:
thing

[00:19:00.59] spk_5:
is, is that what what I I find sometimes is that when you really start looking at the costs and the expenditures from from an organization and how they’re supporting their programs, you find that expenses that are categorized as overhead or administrative or not I mean,

[00:19:02.78] spk_3:
I work

[00:19:11.96] spk_5:
with a lot of grassroots organizations. Were the CEO is coming out of her office, and she’s working with kids. And she’s working with families. Well,

[00:19:12.21] spk_3:
she’s not overhead.

[00:19:33.41] spk_5:
She’s actually also direct program. So, um, you know, I mean, first, you can’t have toe really hold your budget up to the mirror and say, you know, is this truly accurate? I mean, you know, there’s a lot of hard work and CEO is out there, especially in grassroots organizations where they’re essential. And so there are probably more of their costs. Might be included in a program budget for a grant proposal.

[00:19:45.14] spk_0:
Hard working for sure, we know that. Absolutely. Um, yeah. So

[00:19:47.94] spk_3:
Yet, uh, you got

[00:19:53.93] spk_0:
any client story that comes to mind? Like we’re you know, they were thinking low and you encourage them to think bigger. And they ended up being successful. Maybe they didn’t get every dollar they asked for, but they got something bigger than you. Bigger than they were initially asking for.

[00:20:05.75] spk_3:
Yeah,

[00:20:06.18] spk_5:
I mean, and, uh,

[00:20:10.69] spk_0:
I should hope so. I put you on the spot. It never happened. And then we cut the mikes.

[00:20:13.64] spk_5:
No, absolutely

[00:20:14.61] spk_0:
not. yours. You cut mine. Well covered like

[00:20:23.10] spk_5:
Well, first of all, I just tryto look, it goes back to the light bulb. You know, I just don’t you you know, I’m just I’m just simply illuminating what’s in front of us a lot of times, and I find that I have probably any number of stories where working with a client and all I have to do is show them that this foundation could give more money and they said, Well, G, I think I have these opportunities and get them to think of three. Or like, Hey, I think I’ve got something. I could take the foundation

[00:20:44.74] spk_3:
and they do a

[00:20:45.24] spk_5:
fabulous job of presenting an engaging the thunder. Maybe I’ve you shown them that opportunity, but at the end of the day, you know I want to give credit where credit’s due. My my current clients raise good money because my clients are really good. Smart people were doing great work

[00:21:00.03] spk_3:
collaboration. You’re also contribute modest, surprised to find

[00:21:04.18] spk_0:
a modest professor. There aren’t too many of those, and I said no, professor, but I’m going to

[00:21:07.63] spk_5:
start a band called Modest professed

[00:21:11.50] spk_0:
It’ll be D L B everything in your life is deal be about the ball. Yes. Modest Professor deal

[00:21:59.13] spk_5:
bu But he asked me a specific example. I mean, recently I was working with I am working with ah, wonderful charity on DDE. They help kids with cancer. And you know what? What was really great was they had this wonderful opportunity to apply for a grant from a major national foundation and they had a great contact. And I think the early conversations was about a fairly modest create, maybe $10,000. And when we said that really looked at what the opportunity iwas, um you know, what could this charity do you expect with shoestrings, like 10,000 bucks a shoestring? And what’s the shoot that she turned out to be $50,000. So we worked up a proposal at $50,000 the upshot is the foundation funded. It is that they felt like it was a really good investment for their money, and I think they’re probably gonna be happier Giving the $50,000 seeing what they get is a result.

[00:22:12.46] spk_3:
Look, just in case

[00:22:13.16] spk_0:
any of our listen, my voice just broke a 14 year old voice. Christ, get out! A case

[00:22:20.64] spk_3:
of our, um uh, any case. I mean,

[00:23:14.25] spk_0:
Elizabeth, it’s just have to be your first show. I mean, there’s over 12,000 of you, so, you know, maybe some people come. I guess every week we get new additions if you want to. You know no more about the nuts and bolts the relationship, building specific strategies about that. You wanna listen to last week’s show because that was a panel from the foundation center that I moderated. And there’s a lot of discussion. That’s what we were based on. That old discussion was how to build your relationships with the with program officers, foundations, foundations are made up of people. So that’s, you know, like certain decibel John and I today our, um, more higher level, enormously valuable. And there’s all this strategy and planning and gold setting thinking through what you’re gonna ask. This is enormously relevant to. But last week was Maur detail, I guess nuts and bolts on the relationship building here today we’re in Baltimore, strategic and high level. You

[00:23:23.27] spk_3:
see how the show fits together. You know that people think this just comes. It doesn’t just happen. This thing is planned out

[00:23:33.37] spk_0:
contrary toe the belief of 12,000 people listening. But it is planned. So I just got lucky this week and last week. S

[00:23:36.02] spk_3:
O okay, you have measures

[00:23:49.44] spk_0:
around some of these things. You have measures for each of your 99 strategies. Um, this one is just simple. What? What’s the ratio of sustaining grants to investment grants? So we want to see Maur, I presume?

[00:23:52.77] spk_3:
What? See Maur investment grants, right? Thinking longer term and you’re going to grow your organization and its its capacity. Well, I’m actually

[00:24:28.29] spk_5:
trying to look for a healthier balance. I mean, um, yes, if I have a fair if I have a good core of sustaining grants first, Well, it says I have people who are renewing. Okay, so they like, I mean, think about foundations like subscribers. They love the program and they’re continuing to support a year over year of a year. That’s a that’s a great sign. But am I also bring in? You know, a good number of investment grants that kind of kid again and kick it up a notch and get meatloaf every night for dinner. But if I give him the topping on it every once a while. I mean, it gets more interesting. So there you go.

[00:24:52.04] spk_0:
Okay. This is a vegan show, so that was a bad metaphor. Uh, I just made that up just to embarrass you. Um, now, listeners, you can have anything you need, anything you want out of care for your overall lacto, You know, whatever. I belong to the park slope food co op, but you don’t have to. Um, yeah, eat whatever you like. Um,

[00:24:55.82] spk_3:
okay. Make sure you have the right grantmakers

[00:25:00.20] spk_0:
on your list. Okay? And

[00:25:00.82] spk_3:
and this sounds to me, this

[00:25:02.25] spk_0:
one sounds a little like it’s coordinated with your goals. You want your goals and your and the people, the organizations you’re asking for money from to be consistent. But you can say it more articulately than I can. I

[00:25:15.00] spk_3:
know what I mean

[00:25:24.70] spk_5:
by that is do you have Do you have recognized leaders supporting your program? I mean, um, if I just giving example, I work. I do a fair male work in the youth development world. Worked with various charities who do wonderful work here. And if they want to bring a new program online. Sometimes where my research starts and this isn’t terribly scientific, but it’s

[00:25:42.02] spk_3:
I look

[00:25:42.37] spk_5:
at. Well, who

[00:25:42.81] spk_3:
were

[00:26:06.75] spk_5:
the top 10 foundations funding this kind of work? Say, in New York City or in whatever community, Wherever you’re between your work, can I lend three of them? Can I bring three Thought leader foundations who work in this space to the table and have them funding my project? That’s that to me, that’s the right set of funders. I mean, that’s that helps me with my focus. So I’m not chasing money all over the place.

[00:26:11.40] spk_3:
Yeah, this is very strategic thinking.

[00:26:16.34] spk_0:
No, you’re not. You’re not just looking for foundations that support the work you do, but specifically, you know, some of the leadership foundations. Yeah. I support you.

[00:26:24.13] spk_3:
One of the

[00:26:24.71] spk_5:
things that about that panel discussion which I thought was so great I moderated. I think it was. Thank you. It was artful. Thank you. It was all thank you’s absolutely

[00:26:37.55] spk_0:
Thank you. I thank you again. Thank you very much for that. Thank you. The

[00:26:59.14] spk_5:
Thea it was just sit. There was so much conversation about partnership. I kept hearing it word over and over and over and over again. And I think foundations are looking for really good charities to partner with. And we should think about that on the set in reverse, like, Well, which foundations, though? I want partnering with me on this work that I’m going to d’oh! And that helps toe open that conversation makes the conversation natural. And it makes the proposal flow. I mean, were there for a reason.

[00:27:14.14] spk_0:
All right, Um, John Hicks, I got to, uh, ask you to hold on temporarily because, uh,

[00:28:50.81] spk_4:
we need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software, Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that you’ve heard me talk about. They understand you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in. Now it’s time for Tony’s take two. I’m channeling you small and midsize nonprofits each week. When I heavily produced expertly produced the show, I’m channeling you the listeners in small and midsize non profit. I’m thinking about who are the best guests What are the best topics when I get a guest and I’m thinking about talking to them. I’m thinking What? What do you want to know? What? Um, what is going to be helpful to you? Toe, bring a discussion item to your supervisor CEO board. Um, toe, have a discussion within just within your office. Um, sometimes it’s action steps, things you can do. What? You know, I’m drilling down with guests. What can we be doing? Not just thinking about, but what can we be doing? One of the first couple steps we need to take. So, uh, I always am just thinking about what you want to know. And that’s why I’m channeling you. Always small and midsize, non profit where our listeners are where you are. Um,

[00:28:51.25] spk_3:
I say a little

[00:28:59.99] spk_4:
more about this on a video which you will find, as always, at tony-martignetti dot com. And that is tony. Take two. Now back to turbo. Charge your grants. Fundraising with John Hicks.

[00:29:11.97] spk_3:
Back to you now. John Hicks. We’re gonna get this. Keep terrible. Charging. All right. Oh, that was your That was your word. I decided I would use it. A lot of times.

[00:29:15.24] spk_0:
I don’t. I’ll use what guests, uh, recommend that the log topic says or what? Their article says that I like, but

[00:29:22.17] spk_3:
I I thought,

[00:29:23.01] spk_4:
you know, it would

[00:29:30.49] spk_0:
be adventurous. Let’s go with turbo charge. All right. I made an exception for you. Thank you, tony. My pleasure. Um,

[00:29:31.80] spk_3:
let’s move on. So did we say everything? Well, we see everything we want to say about the right grantmakers before we move way.

[00:29:38.16] spk_5:
We’ve, uh We’ve started with goals that didn’t leave. We’ve kind of looked internally. What do we need to do by way of list? Bill Building. Now, we’re gonna start talking about some external things.

[00:29:48.22] spk_3:
Okay? Okay. So that’s what you want to talk about.

[00:29:51.43] spk_5:
Well, we start with the next one, which is building your V. Q.

[00:30:00.19] spk_0:
Vic, you get us out and get yourself out of drug in jail. What’s that? And define your

[00:30:55.05] spk_5:
visibility question. Yeah, which is, you know, is what it is. He I mean, the idea is that you want to be visible. I, um I think that grantmakers don’t I work in a bubble. Sometimes we think that you know, grantmakers, they sit in their offices and they kind of stay in their on their side of the street. We stay on our side of the street. The reality is that a lot of grantmakers air just out there and looking. They’re very aware of our community of practice and they get to know who we are largely by our just being out there and being visible. So, you know, any time I’m working with a nonprofit organization and the CEO gets out of his or her office and they go to events and they are in the press and they are writing and they’re speaking and they’re publishing and they’re advocating grantmakers get to know them And I think that counts. And I feel that a part of that quote unquote turbocharging um process

[00:31:05.27] spk_0:
thesis turbocharging to the ground. Now we’re

[00:31:19.81] spk_5:
not gonna beat it to program. A part of it is, the more you’re out there and you’re raising the visibility for your mission and your agency in your work, the better it is for you. I mean, it helps you with framing your grant proposal and who you are and what you’re able to dio

[00:31:23.79] spk_0:
credibility. Is that very good? There was another word for this credibility, but that will be your CQ. But you prefer Vik, you we’ll be secret. Well, it could be CQ, right? All right. I don’t want to write your block post anything, all right? And

[00:31:36.66] spk_5:
it could be fashionable. B g Q. So

[00:31:40.10] spk_0:
Yeah. Okay. Uh, that would be your

[00:31:44.96] spk_3:
grandson. Your grants quotient there. Um, now, a lot of this came out

[00:31:46.84] spk_0:
in the panel from last week. People we were talking a lot about networking being visible in the community. Going to events? Yes. And you start to get known essentially what? Same as you’re saying,

[00:31:58.49] spk_5:
right? And and, uh,

[00:32:00.01] spk_3:
the only

[00:32:07.81] spk_5:
maybe new once I’d throw on this is that I mean, there’s there’s visibility. I

[00:32:07.95] spk_3:
like the thing

[00:32:31.84] spk_5:
about visibility with content. And what I mean by this is you can go to parties and goto events, and you can meet people. But what do you leaving them with? What impression are you making? And so some of the things we’re gonna be talking about such a CZ. You know, your strategic agenda where your organization’s going next part of is having a story to tell someone when you meet that grantmakers, here’s here. We are. Here’s the opportunities that are in front of us. Love to come and talk to you more about it. So you know you’re peeking their interest.

[00:32:56.32] spk_0:
Yeah, for sure. You you want to not only be visible, but you wantto have credibility behind that content behind that. You wanna make a good first impression? Imagine how good it would be if if a funder got your application and already knew your name knew the organization name before they, even when the application arrives right there. Knew in advance. Right, Because you’re in the community. And, of course, being in the community includes the the online communities, the online network. You want to build your vic, You there as well?

[00:33:14.98] spk_5:
Absolutely. I mean any. You know, the way I look at it is the when your proposal shows up in the foundation’s office with a bunch of other proposals. If

[00:33:19.85] spk_3:
they’ve

[00:33:47.44] spk_5:
heard of you, they’re going to pick up them. The look on their going to read the letter. They’re gonna read the proposal. I can’t pretend that doesn’t happen. Yeah, there’s a wonderful book which I have my students at Columbia read every semester by a guy named Martin ty tell which is the insider’s guide, the grantmaking. And it’s a great behind the scenes look at the grantmaking process. And, um and he talks about things like this. I mean, you know that. You know, if we know something about the organization, it doesn’t hurt.

[00:34:02.58] spk_0:
Yeah. Okay. Have you ever seen where a foundation approached? A Ah, a potential fundy Ah, non profit and asked

[00:34:06.71] spk_4:
for a asked for a proposal.

[00:34:48.94] spk_5:
I was sure it happens all the time. Does I think it does? I think that, um um particularly the foundations who hire professionals. I mean, think about this way. Part of your job when you work for a foundation is to make the board of the foundation smarter about what’s going on in the world that they’re being asked to fund in. So if you’re out there, if I work for foundation and I get to know something about the work of your organization, I might pick up the phone, call you and say, Hey, I want to learn more about you. Remember, one of my clients just got a call from a foundation. Pretty major foundation was any longer radar screen. They just called out of the blue and said We’ve been hearing about you would love to come and talk to you Have to stand. Absolutely.

[00:34:50.54] spk_0:
Wasn’t on your radar screen? No. Does that mean you’re doing defective research? Inadequate? No,

[00:34:59.04] spk_5:
No, this is Theo. This is actually a donor advised fund. Okay, that’s that’s a whole nother

[00:35:00.19] spk_0:
time. Can’t find Yeah, those air, those air buried What? Their funding is very, very hard to find. Yeah, it’s not. It’s not public, really. It’s not anywhere, is it?

[00:35:09.35] spk_5:
It’s really not

[00:35:19.90] spk_0:
now. Okay. All right. No negligent research by deal. BX make that clear. Make that explicit. They do not do negligent research. Okay. Um

[00:35:20.95] spk_3:
okay. Strengthening your network. This is very

[00:35:27.34] spk_0:
much related. Strengthening your network, um, strong foundation. And you know grantmakers Air are there doing this? You want to be wanted again? You won’t be out and and known in the community.

[00:36:45.47] spk_5:
Yes, it might be a question. You know, I would be asking this question, which is? Well, what’s the difference between your visibility quotient and the network? Well, a network is actually taking a role of X and all the people that you’re meeting and all the people who are supporting you and beginning to reverse engineer it a bit. You know, one of your Panelists on the show last week and talked about or gave a great example of. Well, if I’m funding you, I could introduce you to other funders. And that happens more frequently than that was a good conversation. Oh, absolutely. And it makes a lot of sense because usually a, um think of it this way. Foundation, once they’ve written the cheque and their supporting you there a stakeholder they have a vested interest in seeing you bring other money to the table to build on what they’ve helped you to creator to grow or expand. And there’s nothing wrong with working that in reverse. You know, just a strategy, a tip for everyone, and I’m seeing this work is tthe e get a fund or get one of your grantmakers. Ask them to host some kind of a gathering where you can come in and talk about your work and what you’re seeing as a result of your work or talk about a topic. Were they inviting to this? They’re usually inviting grantmakers, whom they know because they want to help you get your story out there and get people to know you. I mean, it’s not a solicitation. You’re gonna be handing out pledge cards

[00:37:01.29] spk_3:
on the individual side. It’s the same is like a parlor Gather.

[00:37:07.31] spk_5:
Exactly. Exactly. It’s you know, uh, it’s always better in the parlor. This is usually the board room, but

[00:37:10.78] spk_0:
well, yeah, because it’s institutional, But there

[00:37:12.96] spk_4:
are parallels

[00:37:13.73] spk_5:
you get.

[00:37:14.30] spk_3:
Don’t don’t Don’t hurt

[00:37:22.27] spk_0:
my analogy. I mean, I went along with your metaphors. Metaphors and analogies are important. Yes, I adopted your terrible judgment metaphor. So, you know, you certainly couldn’t support my analogy.

[00:37:24.74] spk_5:
I’m totally supporting her nails.

[00:37:26.17] spk_3:
It isn’t involved. It’s analogous ball. That’s what makes it an analogy

[00:37:29.46] spk_5:
of all is

[00:37:30.83] spk_3:
okay. Um, yeah. So you’ve seen this work you’ve seen? This absolutely wonders will do it. It’s common. It’s more common than you think. I I think merging Throw tip now. Well, you know,

[00:37:41.79] spk_5:
beyonc? This is This is a pretty old school approach. Mean they were doing it then. They felt they stopped doing it. Mean grantmakers, then Now they’re doing it again. Um, I think the the key to making this happen is being ableto walk in with a presentation that has really information. It’s not just a come meet my agency.

[00:38:03.08] spk_3:
I think this

[00:38:03.82] spk_0:
is what’s happening in this area. Yeah. In this fund, in this priority that we know you’re all funding, right? Here’s what we’re seeing. Here’s troubles we see coming in the future. Here’s opportunities. Yeah, right. It’s sort of analysis. Like a market announce.

[00:38:27.62] spk_5:
Yeah, exactly. Euros. Every positioning yourself is a thought leader. You know, I have information for you. I have some best practices for you, and they can get a good conversation going.

[00:38:45.18] spk_0:
Okay. I love that. Okay. Uh, yeah. I don’t think my right, it’s not. I don’t think a lot of people are thinking that way. It’s great and approach to approach your funders and ask them to, uh, to do it. Okay. So

[00:38:45.41] spk_3:
what’s your measures

[00:38:46.12] spk_0:
for that one for strengthening your network?

[00:38:48.40] spk_3:
I mean, the measures

[00:39:06.94] spk_5:
I have here you have any meetings with colleagues or potential donors that we secure? I think a big part of it is Did you get out of your office and go meet with your grantmakers? Did you did you meet with colleagues? Did you? Um Hey, how much did you use that role of X and the other is, you know how many potential grand tours that we add to the network.

[00:39:11.77] spk_3:
That’s the

[00:39:25.88] spk_5:
other thing, too. Is is you can meet grantmakers and not ask them for money. But you can get to know them, add them to the network. Maybe the timing isn’t right. Maybe you are not ready for a billable of the Gates Foundation grant. That doesn’t prevent you from getting a no program Officer Gates mean. Maybe they can’t give you money, But maybe they can suggest other people. You can talk to me. I find a lot of its disappearance. Simple networking.

[00:39:35.29] spk_3:
What would your

[00:39:38.74] spk_0:
follow up B to, ah, to an event like that? Eyes the non profit that presents

[00:40:13.30] spk_5:
what’s interesting. I just had a conversation with a client before camp here for the show. I’m aware that I heard about what we’re talking about about that well, years, years, years, sketchy, very deep. Don’t don’t underestimate I I am not underestimating you. Slice it. It’s essentially they’re producing a white paper on one topic, and they’re gonna use that as the follow up to an event. So they’re gonna have some grantmakers in the room and they can follow up with content, so demonstrate how good you are. And there you have it.

[00:40:14.96] spk_0:
Take a break. Indulge me for a break momentarily, please.

[00:40:37.96] spk_4:
It’s time for our last break turn to communications their former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists so that your call gets answered when there’s news you need to comment on so that you stay relevant. They’re a turn hyphen to DOT CEO. We’ve got butt loads more time for turbo charge your grants. Fundraising.

[00:40:42.12] spk_0:
Now’s time to finish up with John Hicks and turbocharging the metaphor that I very graciously I think adopted. John. John doesn’t acknowledge that grabbed the graciousness, but But I acknowledge it for myself.

[00:40:57.31] spk_3:
Okay, um, have we exhausted? Oh, and then you had one more

[00:41:01.03] spk_0:
measure for strengthen your network. How many potential grantmakers? No, you did say that. How many do we add to our network? And they were talking about the follow up. See, that’s my trouble Cone and coming back. Um, follow up. Anything more to say about content Paper seems like a very good idea.

[00:41:20.11] spk_5:
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, just come out. Come back with something that would be useful to the thunder. And, um, yes. Sometimes we So the grants starts with not asking for money but giving the thunder something that they can use.

[00:41:36.21] spk_0:
Okay, for sure. Giving them? Yeah. You’re a team player. You’re adding value to the community, right? That we’re all funding. Okay, You got build a bigger footprint. What is this all about?

[00:41:40.56] spk_3:
Building

[00:42:34.94] spk_5:
a bigger footprint is, um think about two things. One which is can I take the work that I’m doing and how my leveraging it leveraging means either working in partnership with another organization or being a resource to another organization? Uh, I made that you provide the kind of service is your charity does, tony. But maybe you were able to refer kids or families to me, and I can help. Well, that’s building a bigger footprint. Another way of building a bigger footprint. Could be working on a consortium product project. Excuse me. And another way I think about is deepening the impact of what you’re doing. I mean, I’ve worked with a lot of organizations where they may work on a program where the maximum number of kids they conserve might be 50 60 70 is less than 100 kids. But if they’re able to provide a deeper level of service, that’s expanding the footprint because they’re going to get stronger results and it becomes a demonstration site and, ah, place toe test out. Best practices. So you’re changing the conversation. It’s not just a program. It’s helping 70 kids. It’s It’s actually working in a very deep and meaningful way.

[00:42:53.40] spk_0:
This is related to one of the earlier points. It was the 1st 1 that investment in long, long term investment type. Grant seeking.

[00:43:00.74] spk_5:
Exactly. Exactly. So. I just think it’s you leverage as much as you possibly can.

[00:43:07.38] spk_0:
Well, you just rewarding these things that you could come up with nine. You know, it was you had seven. Like you had six, and then you weren’t satisfied. That seemed weak. So you had There are little

[00:43:16.77] spk_3:
different. They are a little different. I don’t want these padded.

[00:43:20.05] spk_5:
They’re not padded. I guarantee they’re not.

[00:43:27.36] spk_3:
Um, we’re on you here. You know, we don’t We don’t accept Aah! Slack content

[00:44:33.99] spk_0:
on non profit radio. No, we don’t have that here. We never have. Except that one time we did the show on on, um on? Ah, fermentation. Oh, yeah, that was That was that was bad content. I thought I thought we’d try something completely unrelated, Which was in the podcast world. Big mistake. But I learned immediately fermentation in the middle of the guests. That wasn’t even happy. But I I couldn’t shut him off. I didn’t have a heart. I invited him. It was my idea. Okay, Fermentation. That was bad content. But that was one out of 377 shows. This happens to be shown over 377. So you could forgive 11 377th actually. And then if you count the number of guests, I mean, lots of shows have two guests, so, you know, we’re up like, 800 get r, and then some have four guests. So were over 1000 guests. So, like, one out of 1001. 1000.1 That that 1 1000? Yeah, that’s not 1 10,000 10.1 Is that one? 1000. Did that felt that is 1 1,001,000 So 1 1/1000 of the guests being slack. You should stick with no prob radio. It’s a safe bet.

[00:44:36.43] spk_5:
I’m gonna do all my budgets.

[00:44:38.29] spk_3:
That was

[00:44:50.79] spk_0:
a small digression, but, um, yeah. Now you don’t want to be doing numerical analysis. I didn’t even know I wasn’t sure. What? The 0.111 1000. The two interns in the room looking it up. They haven’t even answered it yet. Um,

[00:44:53.09] spk_3:
I need an intern. I need an intern if everybody I need somebody to blame for this. So So you know, the 1 1000 I need something

[00:44:59.51] spk_0:
to blame on that blame that on. So if you if you can suggest if you know anybody want to be an intern for non profit radio, have them come have them send a resume, because I need somebody to blame. Um,

[00:45:10.77] spk_3:
let’s move on to Ah. Oh, now we get into the thistles with strategic agenda. You’ve been teasing this all show strategic agenda. What is it?

[00:45:18.37] spk_5:
Well, strategic agenda is, um

[00:45:20.99] spk_3:
I don’t

[00:45:21.69] spk_5:
know if I’m among the only one uses this term, but

[00:45:25.35] spk_3:
I mean, it’s just basically

[00:47:03.57] spk_5:
being able to say to a grantmakers, here’s where we’re going the next 18 24 36 months. And here’s where our focus gonna pee. And here, the most important things that we need to be doing to make a significant difference in the world. Um, I mean, you could say strategic plan, but whenever I say the word strategic plan, clients inevitably think, well, are we looking at going through a six month, nine month process of planning and introspection? Sometimes they’re just doesn’t time to do that. And what I’m just trying to come up with is, you know, if you met a grantmakers tomorrow and you want to try toe, have a conversation to get that grantmakers a really interested in possibly giving you money, I’d like to be able to not just say, Here’s my mission statement. Here is the work we’re doing. It’s wow. Let me tell you about the opportunities we have. We’re going to be doing a, B, C, D and E, and you had a number of grantmakers on that panel going back to last week’s show who talked about. It’s better not to come to us with just one idea, asking us to find it, because I mean, when the panel said what if you pitch the wrong thing to me and I say no, then the conversation stops come to me with a general overview of what you’re doing. So yeah, walking with a general overview. But the way you I think undress this up is to say, Hey, here’s where I have some opportunities to accomplish some really exciting good for people And whatever the time horizon you’re working with getting 12 18 36 whatever the number of months and you could piqued

[00:47:04.22] spk_3:
their interest, how do you prove that

[00:47:11.47] spk_0:
the money would be well spent? Because it’s it’s all it’s all perspective.

[00:47:57.15] spk_5:
Well, if you’re gonna put anything up a strategic agenda, you you have to have your hands around the numbers like, you know, right now, I mean, think of one client where they’ve launched for fairly new initiatives in the last year. And those initiatives air showing promise. They’re working in some challenging communities here in New York City. They know their numbers. They know how many families they’re working with. They know how many kids and adults are impacted. They all said no how much they could grow this program if they were able to bring in enough money. So their story if we meet any funders that you know, we’re working with 9000 people across four sites. We know we have the ability and the opportunity to work with 15,000. Our budget is X. If we’re able to raise it toe, why we can make this happen?

[00:48:02.13] spk_3:
That’s a

[00:48:04.27] spk_5:
pretty powerful story. So? So, grantmakers. Maybe that’s a good use of your money.

[00:48:06.62] spk_3:
Excellent. Excellent. John’s giving. You think he just He just wrote you

[00:48:10.77] spk_0:
a template for ah, one paragraph. You got expand on that. You got what you need. You need deal. Be hicks to help you out. So

[00:48:20.47] spk_3:
all right, let’s go to our last Ah, our last

[00:48:20.89] spk_0:
of the turbo charging strategies. Know where you’re heading next?

[00:48:39.54] spk_5:
Yeah. So it means the end of this strategic agenda. Yeah, it’s like essentially, yeah, this gets us in the long term. Do we? Do we have a long term story for our agency or do we It’s you know, if we’re able to go from A to B in the next 36 months, but just kind of looking out beyond the horizon, you know, this is where we think we’re going next.

[00:48:47.72] spk_3:
This is

[00:49:15.96] spk_5:
the part of a conversation with a grantmakers. Andi. Even sometimes it gets evidence with the application of proposal that proves to grantmakers that you have a clear understanding of who you are, where you’re going, where you sit in your field and that you have a You have a realistic sense of scope, and I think that’s awfully, awfully important. You’re able to do this and you engage in a different level than you get the money and you turbo charge.

[00:49:17.87] spk_0:
Oh, John,

[00:49:24.93] spk_3:
look, Look the wrap up, he does. You see that? Look at that, huh? And you turbo charge. All right, we gotta leave it there. He’s John Hicks, c f r ee

[00:49:28.20] spk_0:
You’ll find him at de lb Hicks and deal be hicks dot com. Deal be, of course, Don’s lightbulb.

[00:49:35.57] spk_3:
Thank you very much, John Hook.

[00:49:36.99] spk_5:
Well, thank you for having me on

[00:49:38.30] spk_0:
real pleasure having you back. Thank you.

[00:50:13.29] spk_4:
Next week. Be a disrupter with Chris Field. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Coca Mountain software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot c e o. Creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff.

[00:50:15.23] spk_3:
Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is

[00:50:25.35] spk_2:
by Scott Stein of Brooklyn. That information Scotty Do

[00:50:26.98] spk_3:
with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great