Tag Archives: fundraising

Nonprofit Radio for July 26, 2021: 12 New Donor Qs & Train Like A Champ

My Guest:

Andy Robinson: 12 New Donor Qs & Train Like A Champ

It’s been so long since Andy Robinson was a guest, we need to cover two topics together. First, a dozen potential questions to ask your donor who just said yes to a gift. Then, his advice to up your game as a trainer and facilitator.

 

 

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[00:00:03.84] spk_2:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio

[00:01:57.94] spk_1:
Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast and uh oh I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with idiopathic thrombosis. radio Penick purpura if I didn’t know why you bled me with the idea that you missed this week’s show 12 new donor questions and train like a champ. It’s been so long since Andy Robinson was a guest. We need to cover two topics together. First a dozen potential questions to ask your donor who just said yes to a gift. Then his advice to up your game as a trainer and facilitator, tony state too podcast pleasantries were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. And by sending Blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. It’s my pleasure to welcome back Andy Robinson to nonprofit radio he provides training and consulting for nonprofits, businesses and government agencies. Over the past 25 years. He’s worked with clients in 47 states and Canada. He’s the author of six books including train your board and everyone else to raise money at train your board dot com. His latest book is what every board member needs to know do and avoid Andy is at Andy Robinson online dot com. Welcome back Andy,

[00:01:59.32] spk_0:
it’s great to be with you. Thank you for having me today,

[00:02:08.54] spk_1:
absolute pleasure. I just want to make sure that listeners understand you were on the show just a couple months ago, May Talking about boards and financial uh financial analysis and data. But that was a replay from 2012,

[00:02:16.81] spk_0:
right with my colleague Nancy Wasserman and she and I did a different book together about that topic.

[00:02:27.94] spk_1:
exactly. Uh and so it’s been since 2012 that you were on the show, so it’s time to catch up and do uh do these two topics together.

[00:02:32.54] spk_0:
I missed you. tony

[00:02:33.84] spk_1:
Oh, you’re terrific. Thank you. Up in Vermont, See see what a humane people we have up to Vermont. Yeah,

[00:02:41.76] spk_0:
I hope so. Um anyway, I’m pleased to be back. It’s an honor to talk with you. It’s an honor to be with your listeners and thank you for inviting me.

[00:03:00.24] spk_1:
My pleasure. Um Does it annoy vermonters that everybody who doesn’t live in new Hampshire, Vermont or maine confuses new Hampshire and Vermont?

[00:03:16.34] spk_0:
Um A few people get annoyed by that. Um The cultures of the two states are somewhat different and the politics of the two states are somewhat different, but they have a lot in common, and certainly there are many people who commute back and forth and have friends on both sides of the Connecticut river. And so I wouldn’t sweat it.

[00:03:21.64] spk_1:
You’re not. Is that is that the Connecticut river that divides

[00:03:23.86] spk_0:
it? Yes, it is.

[00:03:25.64] spk_1:
Yes. That’s

[00:03:25.90] spk_0:
the kind of the river you

[00:03:26.99] spk_1:
pick up geography on probably. So you’re not among the vermonters. That is upset by the

[00:03:50.54] spk_0:
I am not and I’ve been here about 20 years. So it is my adopted home. Um much as you, you know, are living in an adopted home. So am I? So I can’t even claim the title vermonter. Um I would like to, but the locals are a little, you know, Vermont or is someone who’s been here for multiple generations. I’m gonna

[00:03:51.34] spk_1:
be generation. Yeah,

[00:03:52.59] spk_0:
it’s a generational thing, but it’s all it’s all good. And I I love living here and I’m grateful every day to be here.

[00:04:23.74] spk_1:
Wonderful. Alright, so thank you for for letting those of us who make that mistake off the hook. No worries. It’s the same as the Kentucky Tennessee dilemma. All right. 12 questions. So we’re starting off with 12 questions that you might potentially ask a new donor. Someone who has just said just said yes to a gift and your first one is how would you like to make your payments?

[00:06:16.94] spk_0:
Yeah. Right. Um and you know, I mean it’s it can be awkward because it’s we’re having this deep conversation about why do you care about this work and how do you want to participate and what would feel significant to you? And and then we have to at some point get to the logistical question of are you writing me a check and by sending you an invoice? Are we doing the credit card, you making uh installment payments to fulfill this gift? And so yeah, I think that has to be one of the questions is how would you like to make payment? And a classic solution to this is to bring a pledge form with you. So when the donor says yes you pull out the form and it includes things like how do I spell your name and how do you prefer to be contacted with me? Um Do you like email? Do you like a personal phone call? Should I come and meet with you once or twice a year? Like how do you want to engage with us? And then also there’s the payment question like are you writing the check and by sending you an invoice we’re doing installments, all those sorts of things and you know I will do a little shout out to my colleague Harvey Mckinnon who I suspect has been on your show at some point and and Harvey is an international consultant. He and I did an article about this together that I think first appeared in the Grassroots fundraising journal Once upon a Time. So he’s he’s the co author of this content. Um, but I bring it up because he’s like the international guru of monthly giving, and he will never let the moment pass without saying, you know, would you consider making this a monthly payment model? So for folks who don’t know, this is the sustainer program model where people make automatic monthly payments on their credit card or directly from their bank. So that could be one of the questions are you a monthly donor? If not, would you like to be, is that a way to fulfill this commitment? So, yeah, how how do you want to pay? Is one of those questions? Yeah, sure.

[00:06:38.24] spk_1:
Well, right, because we don’t want to I don’t wanna be so excited by the by the yes that we we shake hands, we hug and then we rush out the door. You know thinking if I stay longer they might change their minds. And then we don’t get to the details of you know right, what what can we expect? I mean you gotta this is this is a business here and let’s acknowledge from you just got a commitment for someone to invest in your business. Yes. Was that investment going to come through?

[00:07:05.64] spk_0:
So we have to be to use the wrong word here. We have to be shameless about that. And at least you know we have to be forthright and say okay this is awesome. You have just made my day thank you for saying yes. I am so appreciative how do we do this? How do we transfer the money? I mean maybe it’s stock option, right? You know, I mean there’s a lot of ways that people can make payments, So yes, thank you for naming that Tony that is one of the 12 questions for sure.

[00:07:10.42] spk_1:
Of course. Well we’re gonna we’re gonna take them off.

[00:07:13.18] spk_0:
You have, do you have them in front of you?

[00:07:14.94] spk_1:
I have a list, yeah,

[00:07:16.11] spk_0:
yeah, great freedom to me.

[00:07:18.14] spk_1:
Look at this, the guy who wrote the article with Harvey, by the way, Harvey Makin has not been on the show, if you’re recommending,

[00:07:22.64] spk_0:
I will hook you up with Harvey because he’s very good storyteller and his thoughtful and entertaining and very smart.

[00:07:29.04] spk_1:
So the guy who co authored the article, you don’t have it in front of you,

[00:07:31.94] spk_0:
um you know, I I should have it in front of me,

[00:07:34.50] spk_1:
but I think you know, make you tick off as many as you can see

[00:07:37.46] spk_0:
why don’t I do that? Why don’t I try and why am I try and remember them and then you can feed me the ones I’ve forgotten

[00:07:43.52] spk_1:
what I already gave you one. So if you don’t get credit for that one.

[00:07:46.92] spk_0:
Yeah. Well you know what happened and this is full disclosure and you’re probably your audience doesn’t need to know this. But I pulled up the wrong slide deck this morning as my cue. Oh I thought we were talking about succession planning. Oh questions. Oh well let’s see if I can.

[00:08:00.16] spk_1:
I thought the host of this show was lackluster.

[00:08:03.43] spk_0:
Yeah. Well

[00:08:07.44] spk_1:
I’m rare that we have a guest who’s been less prepared than

[00:08:08.71] spk_0:
I will

[00:08:10.54] spk_1:
we will bring this together, put you on the spot giving you once you

[00:08:25.64] spk_0:
have given me one so you won’t get them in any particular order. But I’ll do this remembering and that’s fine. I’ll give you one of my favorite questions is will you give us a testimonial about why you give

[00:08:32.24] spk_1:
that counts? I’m checking that one off. Thank you about that one. Well we’re not we’re going to see how many you can remember through the, through the discussion. I think

[00:09:13.34] spk_0:
that’s fair. Why, Why I like that one is two things first of all and you know, tony You know this your longtime fundraiser, the most powerful fundraising is a peer to peer, right? It’s one donor talking to another donor and this is a way that you can get one donor to literally talk to another. This is why I made a commitment and you know, can I put it on the website? Can I put it in our printed materials? Is something I could share on social media? How can I use that? Um, Okay, a related question is, tell me more about why you make it you chose. Yes. Like, tell me a little more about, you know, you just made a big decision. I’m I’m moved. I’m pleased to say more about this commitment. Why is this meaningful to you?

[00:09:57.44] spk_1:
What is it about our work? That’s right. And, you know, that some of these may be subsumed in your ongoing conversation about the gift. I mean, you know, so, as you’re talking, that’s fair, as you’re talking about books about making a gift, you know, it’s not it’s very rarely in my experience, a one shot, you know, you ask, and then they say yes or no. I’ll think about it there use conversations. So, you might very well, first of all, you might already have known what they love from their previous giving. But through your conversations about this particular gift, you might find that out if you didn’t already know. So you might not have to ask afterwards right already.

[00:10:12.54] spk_0:
I think a good discovery conversation with donors leading up to the ask is going to reveal at least some of these questions and answers. I think that’s fair and not everybody is that thorough or thoughtful in their cultivation and their discovery with donors. And so if you don’t have a clear answer to that question, you want to know that

[00:10:56.74] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications, The chronicle of philanthropy, The new york Times, The Wall Street Journal, UsA Today stanford Social Innovation Review, the Washington post, the Hill Cranes, nonprofit quarterly Forbes Market Watch. That’s where two and two clients have gotten exposure. You want exposure in outlets like those. Turn to has the relationships to make it happen for you turn hyphen two dot c o. Your story is their mission. Now let’s go back to 12 new donor questions and train like a champ.

[00:11:54.24] spk_0:
This also relates to one I already mentioned. Which is what are your communications preferences? Like how should I stay in touch with you? Should I send you email? Should I send you a newsletter? Do you like the occasional phone calls? Should I take you to lunch? Um, how often? And you know, a related one. This is a little awkward and I would save this for the end, but I’m bringing it up now is what’s your given calendar? Like how often may I ask you And the, the assumption we have with major donors And I’m putting air quotes here for folks who are listening. The assumption we have is that they are once a year donors, you know, typically at the end of the year and we do the cultivation and we try to close the gift at the end of the year. And I just want to say that everybody is different. And you know, here’s an old quote which is if you know one donor, you know one donor and there’s this strong tendency to sort of extrapolate to everybody. All donors behave like this. And it’s not true.

[00:12:02.20] spk_1:
So

[00:13:10.64] spk_0:
the way I might frame this is I might say to somebody, what’s your given calendar? Are you typically a once a year kind of person or if I have a special need or an emergency? Can I come to you additionally, how does that work for you? How do you think about your giving in that way? Um, another question, especially if you’re dealing with older donors, um, for those who can’t see us tony and I both have a lot of gray this call today. Yeah, that’s all right. No, no shame in that. Anyway. If you’re if you’re dealing with older donors, one of the questions I would ask is, um, does your family know about this? And the next time that I come back to talk with you, can we have some of your kids or heirs or family members in the room so we can all discuss together why this work is meaningful to you? Because I don’t want just one donor. I want generations of donors, Right? And if dad is in for mom is in front of the kids saying this is important to me. Here’s why. And we’re trying to add to our donor list and also continue this donation after that donor has passed on, then it’s good for the family members to know why this is a priority for the person who’s making the gift

[00:13:15.70] spk_1:
interesting. That’s an interesting one. You’re sort of leading into a plan giving discussion.

[00:13:19.98] spk_0:
We are

[00:13:27.74] spk_1:
and the interesting, yeah. Trying to get the parents to engage their next generation. Their

[00:13:50.04] spk_0:
kids share their philanthropic priorities with their Children, you know, and if you have, if somebody has a family foundation and the kids are on the board, I mean this is already happening, but most donors don’t. Right. Um, so I I yeah, that, I mean that’s one that sort of surprises people because a lot of people don’t think of that one, right? It’s like, who else? Um, another

[00:13:51.15] spk_1:
Live by the way, you’re at five out of 11 so

[00:13:53.10] spk_0:
far. I’m rocking and rolling here. Um,

[00:13:55.15] spk_1:
you’re you’re in a street f so far, but there’s still time, there’s still time.

[00:13:58.83] spk_0:
Doctor tony cut me some slack here early in the

[00:14:02.29] spk_1:
co author of this thing. I’m okay if I get harvey mckinnon on the show and you can’t name more than five or six of these,

[00:14:09.94] spk_0:
I’m just getting warmed all

[00:14:10.36] spk_1:
you out when I when I when I have them on.

[00:15:32.74] spk_0:
Okay, so here we go. Another one is will you come to our board and talk to our board about why you give and you know, we’re gonna talk about board training in a few minutes. That’s, you know, our second topic this morning. But um, I do a lot of work helping board members embrace fundraising. It is like the number one piece of my work for years and years and years and part of the barriers. People have this idea that donors are a different species or they come from a different planet and like, I don’t know any donors. I’m the one who gives money all this, all this stuff. Right. We’ve all heard at any of us who are consultants who work with boards have heard these tropes all the time. And I think it’s sort of fun to pull together a donor panel of three or four of your most loyal donors and they don’t have to be the wealthiest donors. I mean, maybe it’s, you know, the classic little old lady who’s been giving $50 a year for 20 years and you invite three or four of them to a board meeting. You say the 1st 20 minutes of board meeting, we’re just going to do Q and A. And we’re going to hear from some people who love us and give us money and have them talk about why they support our work. And this is transformational for board members because they realize they love us, right? We do good work, people care. They want to be part of this, right? So will you come and share with our board why you give and why this is meaningful to you? Um,

[00:15:57.24] spk_1:
so I can see how that enormously uh, eye opening for, for board members who, who get mired in the financials. You know, as we talked about when you wrote your book, the boards understanding the basics of financial, they get mired in the financials and the and the employment practices and the non disclosure and uh, and conflict of interest policy. And they forget that were, you know, this, this wide M. C. A. Does great work in the community. You know, we’re more than just a pool and a fitness center, you know, and, and let’s hear and we hear

[00:16:18.04] spk_0:
from more than just a spreadsheet and aboard media. Right? So I mean, here’s a shout out to someone you may have had on on In the last 550 radio sessions. This case Sprinkle Grace, um, in case another well known great consultant,

[00:16:21.11] spk_1:
k

[00:16:55.34] spk_0:
sprinkled Grace, who’s in san Francisco Grace. Um, you know, and Kay has said, and I don’t know if she was the first, but she said every board meeting needs to include what she calls a mission moment, which is when board members are connecting with their hearts and why they’re in the game and why they care about the work as opposed to the spreadsheets and the policies and the agendas. And you know, this is a classic mission moment is if you have donors sitting with you saying this is why I care about your work. And this is why it connects with me emotionally. Then the board members are connecting emotionally with the work. Um, so I would put that on my list of 12.

[00:16:59.03] spk_1:
It is already there another not expanding the list. You’re not very good. You don’t, you don’t hurt your own cause you don’t want to increase the denominator. You want, you

[00:17:09.52] spk_0:
can take the new yorker out of new york, but you can’t take new york out of the new

[00:17:16.94] spk_1:
yorker. You can’t take the new york out of tony No, I’m keeping track. It’s good. I don’t want you to think that I’m just

[00:17:19.59] spk_0:
trying to distract

[00:17:20.64] spk_1:
you from the purpose of here’s the next one by amplifying somebody here.

[00:18:12.54] spk_0:
Here’s the classic one that we don’t do enough because we don’t have the courage, which is, will you introduce us to other potential donors, Right. Is there anybody else that you know that might care about this work? And you know, again, I don’t think that’s the first question out of your mouth, but if you have someone who’s enthusiastic and they’re like, I love this group is like, who do you know? Um, how can you help us? And you know, will you make an introduction? Would you consider hosting a house party? Right. Um, if we have an event which you come and speak at the event, like finding ways to involve them. Um, another question, and this is probably towards the end of the list is you’re so committed, you’re so passionate. Would you help us raise money? Are you a potential volunteer in our fundraising pool? Um, and let’s talk about the volunteer tasks that are available. And could you be one of those people?

[00:18:18.04] spk_1:
Yeah, I like, I like that one a lot.

[00:18:19.97] spk_0:
Yeah. And again, it’s not gonna be everybody. Some folks are like, no, I mean, I’ll give you money. I don’t want to, I don’t want to participate in that way. But other people like, sure. What do you need?

[00:18:28.12] spk_1:
Could you help us?

[00:18:29.17] spk_0:
Could you help us?

[00:18:30.91] spk_1:
What you’ve just done exactly. Um, um, out of 11 by the way.

[00:18:35.64] spk_0:
Thank you. I think we’re there 11 or where they’re 12.

[00:18:38.54] spk_1:
Well, there were 12, but you’re not getting credit for the first one because I gave it to you

[00:18:50.14] spk_0:
sure enough. Um, the domino a new question that’s not on the list, but harvey has thought about is how has covid changed your thinking about giving?

[00:18:54.74] spk_1:
Okay.

[00:19:26.14] spk_0:
And I don’t know if that’s an after before question. Um, but you know where he was going with it. Is is it going to be harder to get donor meetings and how are people feeling about having face to face conversations? And you know, sometimes we’re doing these on zoom now, which I’m fine with. Sometimes we’re meeting with donors. Um Sometimes we’re doing it on the phone. That’s never that’s not new. Um But even just figuring out the meeting protocols and how people are feeling about that I think is an interesting bonus question. Um Alright, feed me one because I think that’s what I got so far.

[00:19:39.64] spk_1:
All right. So now you expanded the denominator by adding the COVID question. So that increased your denominator to 12. Yeah, that’s cool. You got 234 Got nine out of 12 which is about 75% right, 75 is about a C. I’ll give you a C. Plus because you have a good smile and you live in new Hampshire.

[00:19:51.13] spk_0:
I don’t I live in Vermont but whatever.

[00:19:54.94] spk_1:
That’s right. Whatever. Whatever. Um Okay. Straight C plus.

[00:19:59.06] spk_0:
Uh geography test. Let’s see if I’m, if I’m not going to pass the test of, would you like to honor questions? Give me another one, tony like to

[00:20:06.97] spk_1:
honor or someone who is in memory or someone

[00:22:03.94] spk_0:
thank you. So again, this is, this is sort of fundraising. 101 is that sometimes people like the opportunity to use their gift to honor someone they love, who may be alive, who may have passed away, um, or maybe even honor somebody who’s in the organization. I’ve had donors say, you know, I wanted to do this, but I want to do it in honor of the staff because I see how the hard the staff works and you know, they are the heart and soul of the organization. So yeah, I mean, I could honor my grandma, may she rest in peace, but I think I want to honor the employees because they’re kicking. But um, so I have, um, I chaired a capital campaign several years ago and we had the whole conversation about naming opportunities and how to price naming opportunities and all that. But one of the things we decided as if people wanted to do naming opportunities and have little plaques on the walls, they could name it after themselves, like named after a relative or a friend, but they could also name it after a value or a concept they really loved. So we had people who used the naming opportunities to write things like justice and dignity for everyone. And instead of their name, we had a little plaque, you know, for the bookcase that they bought that said justice and dignity for everyone or lifelong learning or you know, things like that. And so the naming opportunity was not just a name. Sometimes it was a value set or a concept. Um, and that made it more palatable for the folks who thought people with more money shouldn’t get to put their names on stuff because that’s inequitable. And you know, I have some, I have some feeling for that, right? I, I appreciate that point of view. I’m also a fairly practical fundraiser, but it was sort of nice said people were given the option of actually naming some value that was important to them. And um, so yes, would you like to honor somebody or something with your gift,

[00:22:10.04] spk_1:
some

[00:22:10.92] spk_0:
value or some idea or some concept? Um, and I thought that was a nice, nice pivot on that particular question.

[00:24:13.44] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s take two, the podcast pleasantries. You know, I’m grateful. I hope, you know, you should know you certainly better. No, you better finger wag. You better know that. I’m grateful that you listen to nonprofit radio Week after week notice. I don’t say week after week after week it’s not a laborious chore. It’s a pleasure. I hope you’re learning. I hope there’s some entertainment value as well. I’m grateful. Whatever it is you get out of nonprofit radio I’m glad. I’m grateful that you’re with us. I’m glad it’s helping you in your own career, helping your non profit That’s why I do the show pleasantries to you. Our podcast listeners. Thank you for being with me. That is Tony’s take two Now back to 12 new donor questions and train like a champ and then I have switched to a different device because my internet dropped out. That happens when you live at the beach. Sometimes it’s windy or who knows. Uh, so sound is not gonna be as good now because I’m on my phone instead of with my fancy Yeti make, which only connects to my laptop. So Andy’s sound will be the same. Mind is not as good, but we persevered non profit radio perseveres. We’ve had lights turned off. We’ve had, we’ve been at nonprofit technology conference and had taken down taking down around uh, 5 30 when the union was going by with forklifts and taking down displays. It doesn’t matter. We persevered. So the point we were at was just saying that whether you want to do your gift in honor her memory flows very nicely into how would you as the donor like to be recognised?

[00:25:05.34] spk_0:
Yes. So there are people who like their names public and there are some people who prefer to be anonymous. Um, and so we, this is an ongoing debate in the industry is do we publish donor names or not? And I’m in favour of publishing and I think it’s a good thing, but obviously you have to get people’s permission. So I think the key question is may we recognize you publicly or would you prefer to be anonymous? And you know, this implies you have that that tracking form or that pledge form that I was talking about. And you have that you can go through that with the donor and and check that off and then presumably you have a database and you can then honor that request by either recognizing them or making them anonymous. Now a key question we have forgotten, but now I’m remembering is, um, how do you want us to use this gift?

[00:25:07.97] spk_1:
Uh, he gets another one.

[00:26:49.34] spk_0:
Yes. And you know, the point here is that we want all the unrestricted dollars we can get. The best gift you can get from donors, unrestricted general operating use it however you see fit. And there are certainly donors at times who want to restrict their gifts to specific programs or initiatives that you’re doing. Certainly this is true if you’re doing capital fundraising campaign. Um, the tendency I fear is that the solicitor tends to pitch the restricted gift when it’s not necessary to do so. And you know, there are some folks who say, well, you know, most donors would rather know where their money is going. And and my response is I think a lot for a lot of solicitors for a lot of asters, they feel more comfort in asking for a restricted gift. And that’s about our needs as the, as the Askar. And it’s not necessarily about the donors needs. So we have to get better at framing our work and say when you give us the, whatever the amount is, 1000, 5000, 10,000, 50,000. Whatever it supports the whole range of our programs, it supports everything we do in the community. It supports a healthy workplace for our employees. It supports the community members and family members. We support. It helps us build long term sustainability so we can do this work for years. So the best gift you can give us is the unrestricted gift that supports the whole spread of what? And I feel as as Askar as solicitors, we have to get better at pitching that. I think that’s about us. I don’t think it’s about the donor. So that’s one more question. Um, are there any

[00:26:57.44] spk_1:
other, you know, there are, I’m not going to make you agonize over whether or anymore. No. You’ve named you named all the ones that, that I

[00:26:59.57] spk_0:
didn’t get them all.

[00:27:11.24] spk_1:
And then you added one the covid question. So that gives you a 10, 12 Or reduced that to 5/6. And I would say that’s a solid B A beat. You got to

[00:27:12.14] spk_0:
take a B today. I will take I’ll take a B plus.

[00:27:18.74] spk_1:
Well you’re getting a big, you’re getting a beat. So All right. So,

[00:29:07.24] spk_0:
I mean, I want to I want to wrap this part of the conference tony Let me wrap the part of this conversation with a quick little summary here. Um, and then we’ll move to the second half. Um, the stress that we have as Nascar’s I think is around closing the gift, getting the yes. And I feel like there’s a tendency to think if you get that. Yes, you’re like, my work is done. People try to check out or they relax or they stop engaging at the beginning of the relationship. That’s not the end, That’s not the end point, that’s not the victory. Um The whole point is to then ask, how do I keep this donor? How do I make this donor commit even more deeply? How do I find a way to serve them so that they’ll want to give again? And so I feel like the yes is the beginning, it’s not the end. And to me that’s sort of the summation of this whole thing when we get that. Yes. Where do we then go to strengthen and deepen the relationship? And you know, there’s a I can send this to people, we can find a way. But I mean I would turn these into a checklist and I bring them with you. I think it’s okay Um to have a clipboard in front of you when you’re talking to a donor and take notes and you can ask permission to say may I take notes while we’re talking. So I remember stuff because I don’t forget stuff. And is that okay? And I think most people are cool with that but you don’t have to remember these 12 questions. You can bring a cheat sheet with you and you can or you can treat it as a as a form that you fill out when you’re talking with the donor so that you can remember these things and get them into the database. So don’t feel like you have to remember all this stuff. It’s not your job. I think your job is to facilitate the conversation and carry the notes with you if you need them. Yes.

[00:30:24.54] spk_1:
Very sound. Oh I agree. Nobody has a problem with you taking some notes. Um Yeah no I mean you want to preserve this information and and as you said, can convey it back to your to your database for sure. And I like that. Part of the way you, uh, ask how can we be of service to you is by asking for them, asking not require requiring asking for them to be of service to the organization. Would you provide a testimonial? Would you come meet our board, Would you help us with your fundraisers with our fundraising? No, that’s that’s that serves both parties. The benefit to the to the organization of course is greater engagement. Now, now the person isn’t just a donor or investor. There are, there are fundraiser along with you potentially if they agree to that side by side, but we’ll come to a board meeting. There’ll be a V. I. P. Speaker at a board meeting, potentially if they’re willing to do that part. All engagement. That’s all. This was all in service to both the donor by getting them involved in a cause that they already love and service to the non profit as well.

[00:31:37.04] spk_0:
You know, there’s a lot of data on the psychology of giving and why people give and what motivates donors to given all of that. And one of the top reasons is people want to feel connected to something larger than themselves. They want to feel connected to causes or social change or programs that are meaningful to them. Or maybe it reflects on their own experience, um, you know, in need, they had early in their life that the organization or appear organization helped to take care of for them. And so we’re giving them opportunities to more deeply connect with the community that’s creating this change. Um, so it’s an honor. I mean we feel like, you know, we feel like asking people to give as a burden. I think that’s totally backwards. Giving is an honor. It’s a privilege to give and I frankly think it’s a privilege to ask and, and then I think it’s a privilege to be in relationship with the people who give so that you can then deepen that relationship and strengthen their work. So, um we have to be proud, we have to be proud fundraisers. We have to embrace the fact that this is necessary and beautiful and holy work and not treated as a chore but treated as a chance to really improve our communities and deepen relationships and all of that.

[00:32:40.54] spk_1:
It’s time for a break, send in Blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with tools to build end to end digital campaigns that look professional are affordable and keep you organized. They do digital campaign marketing, that’s what we’re talking about. Most marketing software for big companies designed for them, has an enterprise level price tag, sending blue is priced for nonprofits. You heard the Ceo Stefan say this all last last week more articulately than than your lackluster host does. It’s an easy to use marketing platform that walks you through the steps of building a campaign. You want to try out sending blue and get a free month. Go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for the second half of 12 new donor questions and train like a champ.

[00:32:43.84] spk_0:
Um, I think that’s the 12 questions. What else were we talking about today? Tony

[00:32:50.74] spk_1:
Such a such an unprepared guests I haven’t seen and I can’t, I can’t name have I think we’re

[00:32:54.72] spk_0:
talking about training, we’re talking about, we’re talking about training

[00:33:39.64] spk_1:
boards. It maybe 551 shows that since I’ve seen this, this unprepared we’re talking about we’re talking about upping your game and training and facilitating and let’s not limited to board training and facilitating you. Might be might be training your fellow, your fellow staff. Uh, maybe you’re a, uh, maybe you’re a consultant who does training and like the up the game a bit in training facilitating. So, or maybe it’s maybe it’s board work. So, the one of your, one of your articles that I want to start with is the one about, Uh, not over stuffing your agenda. You feel like people try to pack too much into an hour or 90 minutes or a half a day or a full day. So, uh, do you have any idea what that article is about that you

[00:33:42.44] spk_0:
wrote? I’m a Volunteer Today. Friends. I’m here and I’m being abused by the host just for the record. I’m doing this is but

[00:33:54.24] spk_1:
but even volunteers, we have expectations. Even volunteers don’t just walking

[00:34:05.34] spk_0:
by. I am tony I am crushing this. Let’s acknowledge this. I’m doing great today. Anyway. two per your question. Um, we have to start by thinking a little bit about how people learn,

[00:34:09.84] spk_1:
how people learn and what your goal is. Yeah.

[00:36:26.93] spk_0:
And so, you know, there’s there’s a lot of learning theories and I won’t get too geeky with folks, but there’s a learning theory that I that I think is intuitive and people understand is that we all have different learning styles and there’s an acronym V A R K bark that represents this so obvious visual, Right? Some people learn stuff visually. They look at images. They look at video. I mean, that’s their that’s their learning style. Some people are auditory a they like to talk, they like to listen, right? That’s the way. And certainly people who tune into a podcast or radio show like this are probably leaning toward auditory learning as their preferred learning method. We have, we have there are, which is the reading and writing. People who read stuff. People who, right, there are a lot of folks. When I do a workshop, the folks are taking notes and I said, do you ever look at the notes and they say, and I don’t often look at the notes, but the process of writing it down helps the landed in my brain. So I remember it. So those are those are and the k is the kinesthetic people who learned by physically doing things, by manipulating things by handling stuff. So part of my challenge as a trainer and I’ll get to the overstuffed piece in the second here is I want to create learning experience that serves all those kinds of learners. And so if you are standing at the front of the room and you’re showing slides to people and you’re talking at them, and that’s all you’re doing as a trainer, You’re missing half the room, because that’s not their learning style, that’s not how they engage stuff. And so the hard work and the interesting work as a trainer, and I would say, as a facilitator to is to is to design it in a way that it serves a variety of learning styles and learning needs. And when I see an overstuffed agenda, what that looks like to me is somebody has a whole lot of content that they feel like they have to share in the way that they’re going to teach people is by shoving all this into their face as fast as they can, and the theory that if you give them more, they’re going to absorb more, and I just don’t think that works. So going back to what you said, hey, you got to start with your goals, like what am I trying to accomplish in this particular training? What do I want people to master right

[00:36:30.13] spk_1:
now? Okay, yeah,

[00:36:32.43] spk_0:
then once you’ve got that, then the question is, how do we design something that’s accessible to a variety of

[00:37:04.63] spk_1:
learners? Before we, before we continue, I have to uh, add a couple of things, uh, listeners are going to admonish me if I don’t thank you for identifying of arc, because not probably radio we have drug in jail. So if you hadn’t methodically explained each element of bark, then it would have been a serious transgressor and you would have been uh, promptly escorted to jargon, jail free

[00:37:09.83] spk_0:
at last free at last. Yes, you are almighty, I’m free at last.

[00:37:29.23] spk_1:
You are. Um, and I recently had a guest, uh, Laurie listeners remember Laurie Krauss talking about public speaking, the research shows that people retain something like, uh, oh, something like a very small percentage. I don’t know, 2% or 10%. It’s like,

[00:37:31.00] spk_0:
Yeah, I know this data. Yeah. They will they retain 10% of what you say, but they’ll retain 90% of what they do

[00:37:38.63] spk_1:
what they’re doing there. There’s your K. There’s, you can see that, that’s

[00:41:33.41] spk_0:
the K and but it’s also the reading and the talking and the small groups. Okay, so let me make this simple for people, if I’m doing a half day training, you know, like, I’m doing a fundraising training or board development, whatever it could be an hour, and it doesn’t really matter. But let’s say I’ve got you for a morning, the way the way I designed this, and it’s another shout out to our colleague Andrea Kill Stead, who she and I did a book together called train your board and everyone else to raise money. And we spent a lot of time talking through this. Um, hey, I’m going to give you some content. Now, the chunk of content I give you is not going to exceed 15 or 20 minutes. It’s a short piece of, here’s some information you need having, given you that content. I’m then going to launch an exercise or an activity where you work with that content. So maybe there’s some small groups or maybe there’s a writing exercise or maybe it’s a role play. I mean, every fundraising trainer in the world has done role plays where people practice a pitch or practice listening or whatever, right? And then after the exercises over there is going to be some time to debrief and, and think about like what did you just learn? What will you take away from that exercise? And for me it’s always that pattern. Here’s some content now, you’re going to work with the content now, you’re going to reflect on what you learned and how you might use it. And if you had me as your trainer or facilitator for a half a day workshop, you would see this pattern repeated six or seven times in three hours. Um I’m gonna give you some stuff and I’m not going to stand there and talk to you for 60 minutes. I’m not gonna do that. Here’s a chunk of info work with the info. What did you learn? And if you retain nothing else from this part of my conversation with Tony, this is what I want you to retain. Is that pattern repeats itself. And if you can vary up the design of the exercises like okay here’s a writing exercise and the next one is a small group discussion and the next one might be a sequencing exercise where you like I’ve done, I’ve done a class where um we do, we organize a 12 week major gifts campaign um like how to do a speed major gifts campaign. And I will create like post it notes or cards that you put up on the wall. That’s a week one, week two, week three, week four. And then I create cards with a bunch of the activities like call donors, set up appointments, build a gift pyramid, all of those things and I put them all out on the table and I have people try and sequence them and they’re doing in a small group. So what are we doing? Week one, what are we doing? So it’s a classic farc via RK activity because there’s the visual piece, there’s the auditory piece of talking with each other and figuring out where we sequence stuff. There’s the reading and writing piece because you’re reading them, I’ll also give them some blank cards in case I’ve forgotten a step they want to add and I’ll give them a market so they can actually write additional steps. And then there’s the kinesthetic piece of physically manipulating these cards and putting them on a calendar. Um, So that might be, you know, 20 minutes and break out to do that exercise. And then we come back and I said like, what did you learn? Yeah. You know, and what tends to happen in that particular exercises, everybody wants to front load everything and so weeks one and two or look like this, my hand is like wide on the wall and when you get to week 12, there’s nothing, it’s like, okay, maybe you need to spread this out so you don’t kill yourself at the beginning of the campaign and think about a way to sequence it, that’s more humane. Um so I I say the word trainer and that’s intimidating to people because like I’m not a trainer, it’s not what I do, and there’s a tendency to want to hire people like me to come and do it, which is great, you know, I appreciate the work, but I feel like the basic skill set, anybody can learn, you don’t have to have a lot of formal training to be an effective teacher. Um more training helps, More practice helps. But if you sort of master the basics and you do some of the stuff we’re talking about, um, you’ll be good enough.

[00:41:41.91] spk_1:
Let’s talk about, let’s talk about chunking out your time. Yes. How much of that chunking out to share with the participants versus just keeping it to yourself?

[00:43:43.60] spk_0:
Okay. It’s a nice sophisticated question and I’ll give you a two part answer. Part one is that I tend to underestimate the amount of time it takes to do whatever I’m doing. This is true in consulting. This is true in cleaning my house. Um, this is just true in training or cutting the grass or whatever, right? It always takes longer than I think. So my skill set in that area needs improvement even at this advanced stage. Um, Having said that, I have done both times agendas and untimed agendas and what I tend to do if it’s new content and I’m figuring it out is I’ll do a trainer agenda, which is just for me where I’ll show what the times are, but that’s not the agenda I necessarily share with the group because I don’t want them looking at the clock and going, oh my God, we’re late. He’s running behind. Right? So you know, from, for many of the public events, I do, I give out an untimed agenda. I will show times for the brakes and I’ll show times for the start and end, but I won’t time out each section of the agenda. Having said that I’m chairing aboard now and when I do board meetings, I definitely have a timed agenda and I have a very ornate agenda and I’ll just do this from memory and you know, people can use this or not. This is a seven column agenda. The first columnist time like when something is going to start, um the second columnist topic, what are we gonna talk about? Um The third column is who is going to lead that and it ain’t always me. So I’m trying to find other people to share leading portions of the agenda. The fourth column, my favorite column is the decision we need to make around this particular item and I have a bias here and my biases. If you put together an entire agenda for a meeting and there’s no decisions that you’re making and it’s just reporting, you should think real hard about canceling the meeting because there’s so many other ways to share information now we don’t have to physically gather people just to do reports.

[00:43:52.00] spk_1:
Um,

[00:43:57.90] spk_0:
Column # five is follow up needed and you don’t always know that in advance. You might have to figure that out at the meeting.

[00:44:03.75] spk_1:
6es follow up needed.

[00:44:57.09] spk_0:
No, number four is decision of five. Forest decision five is I’m doing this from memory, tony should be very impressed with me. Um For his decision five is the follow up needed. Column number six is, who’s going to do that? Follow up In column # seven. And what’s the deadline by? When is that follow up going to occur? So what the way this works is you fill out some of it in advance, but some of it you don’t know until the meeting when you start figuring out like, okay, what’s our follow up, who’s going to do it? And so you actually use the agenda to build a work plan coming out of the meeting, who’s gonna do stuff and it it sort of creates the guts of the next meeting agenda, which is then about did we follow up? What was the outcome, What subsequent steps do we have to take? Who was going to do those steps? So, you know, I wouldn’t necessarily use that in the training. That’s more of a meeting agenda. We’re trying to get stuff done. And you know,

[00:45:16.89] spk_1:
let me ask you about your meeting agendas, us board chair, you’re saying you do share the timed agenda with everyone. I do. Everybody knows how much time is allocated to each subject? You maybe each row on the Yes, Okay. Everyone knows that.

[00:45:38.99] spk_0:
Yeah. And I put that out in advance. I’ll send that out a couple of days before the meeting. I mean I got a board meeting next Tuesday. I just, this is, this is too granular, but I just sent a notice to all the board members saying, here’s my, here’s like the four or five things I want to talk about. What am I forgetting? Are there boarded items that you want to add to the agenda And you know at least one person has written back and said yeah I’ve got more stuff for the agenda. So

[00:45:43.57] spk_1:
this can apply to any meeting again. Hell

[00:45:45.57] spk_0:
yeah, it could be a board meeting, could be a staff meeting, could be campaign committee.

[00:46:11.78] spk_1:
I’ve been in meetings where there was a time are appointed and the timer was not the the chair or the leader of the discussion that it’s someone else so that so that he or she leading the discussion can stay on topic and make sure that we’re moving each topic. But it’s the timers job to say We only have three minutes left on this 10 minute agenda item. And so it relieves the chair of the burden of watching a watching a clock. There’s actually a timer.

[00:46:39.98] spk_0:
Let me give you a pro tip. I love this suggestion. I totally support the suggestion and my pro tip is if you have somebody in the meeting, a board member, staff member, whomever it is that likes to talk too much and dominates ask them to be the timer because they’re going to be spending more time looking at the clock and trying to keep other people moving rather than pontificating um and taking up all the airwave. So

[00:46:42.31] spk_1:
with something else being

[00:46:50.48] spk_0:
go, it’s a deflection strategy. Um Yeah, that’s my favorite. Um So I bet you have other training questions you brought today since you’re better prepared than I am.

[00:47:17.88] spk_1:
Well, I feel like we’ve covered a lot. Um All right, let’s just let’s, let’s wrap up with managing time is your job. I think that’s that’s critical managing it subsumed in what we’ve been saying. But I want you to make it quick. You have, you have an obligation, you have a responsibility to your audience, Your meeting attendees flush that out.

[00:47:36.08] spk_0:
Thank you. Um It’s very interesting, tony that all the questions you’ve asked about training have focused on time um about not over stuffing, about to put times on agendas and it’s your job to manage time. So this is where you are and that’s interesting to me. Um So

[00:47:38.68] spk_1:
the

[00:47:43.98] spk_0:
work, the work for me as a trainer, when I get in the room, when I get in the room, I’m like doing it. I’m sorry, go ahead finish.

[00:47:51.58] spk_1:
Yeah, we’re out of time. That’s it. I’m the timer and we’re out of time by No, I’m kidding, don’t leave.

[00:49:20.47] spk_0:
Um Okay. So I guess I’m pumped defecating. There I go. Breaking my own rule. So regarding you being the boss of the time for me, the work for as a trainer is the design. It’s figuring stuff out in advance and being prepped. So when I go in the room, I don’t have to think about it too much. I can just do the work and I am doing two things. I’m paying attention to the content and I’m also paying attention to how much time things are taking and you have to have a split brain to be able to do that. Because what I’ll do in real time is all speed stuff up or I’ll slow things down based on how we’re doing against the clock. And sometimes you just have to toss stuff from your agenda because you don’t have time to do it or something more important is happening. And I’ve had, I’ve had trainings where I’ve done where we’ve gotten into really interesting deep water that’s not on the agenda and I don’t want to cut it off because it feels productive to me. So there’s an intuitive piece to this which is doing your prep, having your agenda timed out all that, but then showing up in the room and being present and seeing what’s going on and so part of managing the time is reading the room in understanding how much energy there is around the topic. Sometimes I’ll toss stuff because it just doesn’t feel like there’s any energy to embrace it and you know, I’ll go where the energy of the group is. So to me that’s one answer to your question is to prepare rigorously, but be prepared to throw out what you have prepared if the group is taking you in a different direction and the time is not lining up with what you expected

[00:50:32.36] spk_1:
and not only to throw things out, but I want to amplify something you said to spend more time on something or maybe accelerate your time, not throw something out, but accelerate your time and that’s where you know this becomes an art when on the fly, I do stand up comedy and you gotta, you gotta read the room if if certain jokes are working then you you do more of them and if another topic isn’t you you you move off it, but it’s the same as, it’s the same in a webinar or a facilitation or a face to face meeting the ability to move on the fly, intuitive, intuitively based on the clock and and the energy in the room, you know, you gotta, you gotta be watching both and that’s where it sort of one is quantitative the clock, there’s there’s no beating time. The other reason, how are people reacting to the material and where is their focus?

[00:51:31.16] spk_0:
Yeah. And the other part, I would say, and as a stand up comedian, you understand this. The other part is you don’t want to drive a particular agenda items so far that the energy goes out from it. You want to get out where there’s still some energy left. And sometimes I’ve I’ve co trained with people who wanted to milk a discussion until it completely died and then move to the next thing and you got to get out of a piece of content before all the energy is out. And you know, I mean, again, I think if you if you’re riffing on a joke, you have to learn how to get out before you’ve killed the joke. And um so I would say yes and I mean the I I that’s what I love about training is being in the room and getting that ended her back from the group. It’s been interesting doing this on zoom right and trying to figure out how to, how to transition that energy of the group into a room into something that works remotely. Um, but yes, your job is to both pay attention and be intuitive and serve the group and also managed the clock simultaneously.

[00:51:45.86] spk_1:
We’re gonna leave it there. He’s Andy Robinson, Andy Robinson online dot com. Andy. Thank you very much. tony

[00:51:58.06] spk_0:
It was fun. I’m glad we mastered the technology and I look forward to being in touch with you in the future and I hope folks will reach out if I can be of service to them by everybody.

[00:52:30.55] spk_1:
It certainly should be next week. More coverage of 21 NTCC I think if you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com was sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o and by sending blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. And we did indeed overcome the technology triumph triumph over the technology challenges today. Thanks for hanging in there with us.

[00:53:10.45] spk_2:
Are created. Museum is Claire Meyerhoff shows, social media is by Susan chapman. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Mhm. Thank you for that information. Scotty. He wrote me next week for nonprofit radio Big non profit ideas for the Other 95 go out and be great. Yeah. Mhm.

Nonprofit Radio for May 17, 2021: Your Partnerships With FGWs

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Esther Choy: Your Partnerships With FGWs

First Generation Wealth creators have different values and mindsets than those who inherited their wealth. And FGWs far outnumber the inheritors. Esther Choy’s research will help you understand these folks and how to build valuable relationships with them. She’s president of Leadership Story Lab.

 

 

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[00:00:10.64] spk_2:
Hello and welcome

[00:01:47.84] spk_1:
To Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast and I’m glad you’re with me, I’d suffer with lateral epic and colitis if you gave me the elbow and told me you missed this week’s show your partnerships with F G W s first generation wealth creators have different values and mindsets than those who inherited their wealth and F GWS far outnumber the inheritors Esther choice research will help you understand these folks and how to build valuable relationships with them. She’s President of Leadership Story lab and tony state too, in praise of donors like my dad, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s a pleasure to welcome to nonprofit radio Esther choi she is President and Chief story facilitator at leadership Story Lab, teaching storytelling to institutional and individual clients or searching for more meaningful ways to connect with their audiences. She’s a contributor for Forbes Leadership Strategy Group and you may have seen her quoted in leading media outlets like the new york Times and entrepreneur dot com. Her practice is at leader Story lab and leadership Story lab dot com. Mr choi welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:01:50.29] spk_0:
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:06.24] spk_1:
It’s a real pleasure. Welcome. Um you you have you have some new research out that we need to, we need to talk about transforming partnerships with major donors. What are, let’s let’s just jump right in and why don’t you explain what F. G. W. Folks are? And uh tell us a little about your research that you did with these F. G. W folks

[00:03:57.54] spk_0:
sgw folks? Well, I recently published as a research report um and lucky enough to have a really, really good exposure, such as the one you mentioned in the new york times. And uh, there are a lot of surprises about the folks that we generally in the broader society, just just overly sort of broad and call them the rich people or the wealthy folks or the high net worth individual or the ultra high net worth individuals as if they all belonged in this model is a group that they all think act believe in the same way. And so I got curious about them after I’ve taught uh, in this major gift strategy program at Kellogg for awhile, wondering why are these people so hard to get What, uh, because so many nonprofits is doing amazing and moving and important and urgent work that no one else is doing. So why is it so hard to reach them? So I dug further end. Uh, did a lot of homework and I interviewed 20 very, um there are ultra high network folks and I just ask some questions about how did they get you their wealth? What is it like? Um are there any downsides too well having wealth and so on and so forth, and focusing on philanthropy. Um so this report, I can talk about anyone number of ways. So you tell me, what do you, what do you want to most learn about these first generation wealth creators? Well, let’s

[00:04:01.27] spk_1:
let’s start with how big a proportion they are of the of the wealthy,

[00:05:24.64] spk_0:
wow, I am glad you start. That’s the starting point. Um that’s one of the biggest surprises that I’ve learned because they are At least 68 Of the, this massive group that we call wealthy, ultra high net worth. They are at least 68 of them earn their wealth instead of inherited. That’s a big, big difference between inherited wealth versus earned wealth and that means they’ve traveled a entire social economic class That they did not grow up with. And so some of them, very few of them really make the majority of their wealth in their thirties or even 40s. Most of them are in their 50s and 60s. So we’re talking about full on grown adults with Children and maybe even grandchildren by the time they become um this wealthy. So it’s a very interesting transformation of your life, your community, your social circles, the things that you worry about Or not worry about all happen around starting from the point of 50s and 60s.

[00:05:42.34] spk_1:
All right, So, so they’re at least two thirds, but maybe even a little more than two thirds of all the, all the wealthy folks. The way we would describe as you’re saying, high net worth, Ultra high net worth. These are these are 2/3 of those folks,

[00:05:46.24] spk_0:
correct at least. And it’s actually you

[00:05:49.01] spk_1:
said 68%.

[00:05:51.10] spk_0:
68%. I picked the most conservative number, but I’ve read elsewhere too. And put that to um somewhere 80,

[00:06:14.44] spk_1:
80%. Okay. Alright. 800. And and everybody you interviewed is first generation wealth. That’s that’s where your research was correct on those folks. Okay. So let’s get to know them a little bit. Um, your research has uh, a nice chart. I like, I like pictures of the first thing I look for in books and pictures. Uh, simple, simple. You’re you’re burdened with the host with a simple mind. Um, but you do have these, these pillars of wealth generation. So let’s describe these folks, not, not not all three. I mean, people are just gonna have to get the research, you know, I’m not going to quiz you, I’m not quizzing you on block number four in line three on the no we’re not doing that. I don’t want to go like word by word because people got to get the research. Which which is that? Leadership story lab dot com. Right.

[00:06:47.04] spk_0:
Alright, okay. You can download,

[00:07:07.34] spk_1:
yeah, there’s an executive summary and you can download the full report as well. Right? So leadership Story lab dot com for the full thing, for the full, for the full study. Um But let’s get to know these folks a little bit these these first generation wealth creators. Um you start by saying they’re understated. There may be even humble, are they are they to the point of being humble and modest,

[00:08:01.84] spk_0:
humble and modest and they have a hard time. They have a hard time with the, with the word wealthy, they understand the size of their assets, They understand um what they are capable of affording, which is basically anything, but they have a hard time with the label wealthy and um they oftentimes think of in regard and never really left their middle class roots and that’s the majority of them come from very middle class, you know, they don’t want to be flashy, nor did they enjoy flashy things that attract attention. So um you know, make no mistake, they are part of things that are very um you know, shiny and, and sophisticated and, and high quality, but it’s not who they are inside. So that’s one thing to keep in mind is that they are very understated themselves and they often appreciate other people as well as other things that are understated.

[00:08:31.64] spk_1:
You make the point a couple of times of saying that they don’t they don’t identify themselves as wealthy even though they know that they fit into that category, correct? Okay. Um so you sat down and you you met these folks, you, well maybe not face to face, but you you spoke with these people or couples or how did how did that all work?

[00:09:12.34] spk_0:
Yeah, So I did all the interviews with in partnership with the research firm And it’s all done virtually because it was done in 2020. Um There was one noted exception um where I was invited to her home uh and I met all her kids and her husband’s and you know, it’s just like the whole family in the background and it’s kind of funny to talk about her family while her family was around, but for the most part it was done um through zoom One through calls and then um there are four people, so two couples. Um I interviewed them at the same time together and uh the length just got doubled. Um you know, it’s usually 50, 50 minutes to an hour and with a couple um we talked for over an hour and a half.

[00:09:34.84] spk_1:
All right. All right. How do you, I’m interested in some of the details. How do you reach out to these folks? How do you, how do you get their

[00:10:58.44] spk_0:
attention? It’s really hard. So the first thing we mentioned um in one of the four pillars is their understated right? They don’t identify with the word wealthy. They certainly don’t make big advertisement to the world that they are wealthy. And so to find them and to get them to agree to speak on record, although it’s anonymous. Um and to get them to open up and talk about money and wealth. It’s really hard so I have to rely on a couple of key relationships. Um One is through one of my alma Mata um texas A. And M. University. And my friend and colleague, the ceo of texas A. And M. Foundation help me recruit a few quite a few of these interviewees. Uh My business partner who also happens to be a uh trustee at the University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati foundations and um through a couple of my own resources as well as my research firms. So 20 for qualitative studies is you know, sufficient. It’s definitely not a lot. 20 people doesn’t sound like a lot but 20 of these type of people and get them to talk about very sensitive topic. Um was it took quite a bit just to get them to agree to talk to me.

[00:11:13.64] spk_1:
Go. Aggies.

[00:11:14.34] spk_0:
Thank

[00:11:18.54] spk_1:
you. Absolutely. Um And what was the median income for these 20 folks families?

[00:12:25.64] spk_0:
So um at this point I don’t think their income is very meaningful any anymore. So where I am uh by median I would refer to their uh their their networks. So the net worth the median range is 50 to 80 million. Um Although um the low I would put it in the low teens, the highs I would put them in 100 and 50 just give you give you give our listeners a sense as well of what we’re talking about like by Well you know millions is like a lot of Zeros. You know at some point it’s just like my mind can’t keep them all in one place. Um according to the Fed in 2020 the top one of the U. S. Um Folks have 11 million. So these are all um uh you know sort of the top 1%. Er And um

[00:12:35.44] spk_1:
If for the one even right right mid teens to 50 or so was was roughly the median net worth.

[00:13:07.24] spk_0:
Exactly exactly. But then if you think about the one of 300 million people in the us That’s three million 3 million people. And that is about the size. If you put them all in one city all in one location there just below new york city, just below new york, just below Los Angeles but just above the city of Chicago. Mm So three million people. That’s a lot of people.

[00:13:27.04] spk_1:
Okay. And And you estimate conservatively that of those 3,068 our first generation they earn their wealth versus inherited. Okay. All right let’s go back to get to know these folks a little bit um uh their entrepreneurial, no surprise but tell us what, what does that mean for the way they think about themselves and the way they might think about uh, their philanthropy.

[00:15:37.94] spk_0:
Yeah, so in the most literal sense, they are were entrepreneurs. That’s how they created, most of them created their wealth and with a few um less than 20 of them had a very lucrative corporate careers. And entrepreneurs also means that it’s a mindset, it’s the lenses in which they apply all things through. Um So it could be the way um that they would like their Children or grandchildren to approach um you know, if I wanted to study abroad even um and you know, I need additional funding. Well, how much you think about it as what untapped opportunities might there be out there for you in this country that you want to study, but it’s not currently fully leveraged. Um but entrepreneurial could also means to, as they think about non profit, as they really think about how they want to leave their social impact and how they want to fully make sure that their philanthropic dollar is put to good use that also applied and, um, compatible with their middle class values. So, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s up and down side, right? Um, sometimes something just can’t be measured. Sometimes nonprofits are run by people who are philanthropic reminded and socially minded and they don’t necessarily have the same sort of business acumen as, as, as well as, um, fear competitiveness, um, that these donors tend to have an embody. And so the downside of having that entrepreneurial mindset is that sometimes it creates clashes. And if, you know, at the very least disagreements on, is this really the best use of the precious dollars that your organizations have? Um, sometimes there’s no straight black and white answer yes and no. Um So um that’s what I mean by entrepreneurial

[00:15:52.04] spk_1:
And what else what comes next in those four

[00:16:03.84] spk_0:
pillars? So the third is free and I truly it seems like a very simple no nonsense and and and we’re like oh we live in a free society. But I think the truth of the matter is that a lot of people are not free, they are not free to pursue whatever they want, they are under certain professional career obligations or financial pressures

[00:16:22.84] spk_1:
and they are a lot of options.

[00:17:44.94] spk_0:
Yeah, exactly. And that’s why a lot of career counselors ask mid to even late career folks, you know, what would you do if money is not an issue? Right? I’ve heard that questions asked a lot in Korea counseling because a lot of people are under that pressure. But these F. G. W. S. They are not and for them it’s often times for the first time is, wow, now it’s not a theoretical questions anymore, I really don’t have to worry about money. Okay so now what what do we do? And so um a lot of them pursue experiences, a lot of them want the same thing for the Children and grandchildren. Um They uh pursued 3rd 4th 5th careers that they’ve always are interested, intrigued by, know that they’re not very good at and know that they probably may not may or may not be able to make a ton of money with. Um But they pursue it anyway, so it’s that sense of freedom. Um that I think a lot of people as long as they have to still worry about saving for retirement, saving for making sure you can pay your mortgage and things like that. It’s really hard to wrap your mind about. And then these folks are just sort of Mhm fully embracing,

[00:17:56.94] spk_1:
may want their Children to understand that having a wealth of options doesn’t just come, it comes from hard work and and devotion, which is what they devoted their decades too, so they want their Children understand that, that does just doesn’t just happen for everyone.

[00:19:40.94] spk_0:
Yeah, I’m glad you bring up Children across all 20 of them, even though the ages ranges from Late 40s to a few 80s, um they all worry about their kids even though their kids have all grown up or they have worry about their kids or have regrets about uh the way that they raised the ways that they pass on their assets uh to their kids. And the funny thing is that they did not tell me oh I have so and so um I really can confide in or I know these uh professional resources uh that I can go to and um all of them are just kind of like, I hope I’m doing the right thing. In fact, I know I haven’t done the right thing, but then talking to piers surprisingly was not an option across any of them. And so although they’re free, but this taboo topic of money and wealth have prevented them from really searching for the right answers at the time when decisions had to be made. So Children, it’s a constant universal worries, especially for people with wealth. Um, we’ve seen from studies after studies that for example, substance abuse tend to affect um, Children from families with means disproportionately higher than those who are not from a family with means.

[00:20:45.54] spk_1:
I wonder if there’s some tension for them because they’re not comfortable talking to those who inherited their wealth or even just other wealthy people because they don’t they don’t identify that way, but then they’re not comfortable talking to those folks that they knew when they were struggling in their careers and before they’re they’re great success there, great financial success will qualify that because success can take lots of, have lots of different levels to it, but before the great financial success, because they, like, they don’t want to, they don’t want to appear overbearing to their non wealthy friends who they know from high school and college and, you know, maybe professional school or you know, whatever. Uh so there they, like, caught in the middle, like, they don’t have valuable personal relationships to, to leverage and count on in in in times like when they’re questioning what, what to do with Children and, you know, sort of existential questions like that.

[00:22:44.14] spk_0:
Yeah, so this is another downside of being entrepreneur. Um another way to call someone very entrepreneur is what, you know, he’s he has a can do spirit, she has a can do spirit. So if you can do, you can do it yourself, you don’t need to count on other people to help you, you can pull yourself up by the boot strap. So uh that’s one and two is again, the subject of wealth, it tends to be taboo. Um in fact, the broken institute economist Isabel Saw Hill made this really app as observation and she said that people rather talked about sex than money and money than class. So first generational wealth creators have travel across classes and so that makes it really hard for them to say, you know, I don’t know what’s the right way if we do, if we travel, is it wrong for us to buy business class or first class and what are your middle class friends going to say? Poor tony poor Esther you’re struggling with questions like should you travel in business versus first class and it’s not something that a lot of people, first of all empathize with, and second of all have the right context to give sound councils and what about professional um coaches and um counselors and whatnot? I didn’t actually covered in the report, I chose to exclude it and just in the in favor of focusing on nonprofit and fundraising. But their experience with uh wealth management advisors are very mixed because it’s an industry that has a lot of conflict of interest. There are some really, really good

[00:23:04.54] spk_1:
let us in on something that didn’t make the report, this is great not profit radio you gotta let us in on the, on the, on the back story. What? Say a little more about these, the trouble they’ve had the mixed results, mixed results, I’m sure some have been, some results were fine, some relationships are fine, but so a little more about what didn’t make the final report there.

[00:24:40.84] spk_0:
Um I cut a whole section of just because I think it might be detrimental to getting people to read it when it’s beyond a certain length. So this whole section that I cut off was on um, how they view advisors, um, counselors and things like that. And indeed, you know, uh, two words to describe the entire section is that it’s very mixed. Um, some have great experience, some on the other end of the extreme is um, they thought the people they interacted with is just uh, the advice weren’t very good or too obvious or that again, they can do it themselves. Why do I need to pay you so much money to tell me something I know already. And uh, and, and by the way, that is somewhat parallel to their experience with uh, fundraisers. So I don’t want to just put the hammer on uh, wild advisors and and and um, tax advisers and whatnot. Um, because this idea that, oh, we know you’re wealthy, we know what you can do with your money, either for the benefit of yourself as well as for me or my organizations. That really changed the dynamic of the conversations as well as the services, how services rendered and that’s to their relative to their expectations. Um, so that’s why it’s not very helpful I think just to come off and um list a bunch of things that they’re not happy with without being able to say what would be helpful. So I just removed the whole section and also in favorite of keeping it readable length.

[00:32:20.44] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. You remember them, you’ve been hearing about them, the biden tax plan, the infrastructure plan, immigration. Is there anything in there in these continuing conversations that you’d like to be heard on? Anything in their impacting your work? Anything in there that you’re expert on and you need to be heard. You want to be a trusted source on something that’s under constant conversation and it’s in the press turn to has the relationships that can make that happen. They are a trusted source by lots of media outlets. They can get you heard on the subjects that you know best and that your expert on let them use their relationships to help you because your story is their mission. Turn life into dot C. O. It’s time for Tony’s take two In praise of donors like my dad. My dad is 88 years old and he gives to dozens of nonprofits a month. I have seen the checks that he writes now, 88 years old. So you know, he’s not doing online giving, he’s not doing online bill paying. He writes cheques for those of you not acquainted with checks. They come with check registers. That’s a little booklet that you can write all your checks in. So you can reconcile month after month, right? It’s an old process, but For an 88 year old, it’s the way it gets done. He’s outgrown check registers. He writes so many checks to charities each month that he just keeps a running list on sheets of paper. And there are so many check entries on each sheet that the sheets are curling up a little bit. When the sheet is complete, it’s almost like parchment. It’s curled up a little bit because there’s three columns Of checks in on each page. I don’t mean each check takes up three columns. I mean there are three columns of checks on an 8.5 by 11 page. He’s got a he’s got the check number, his own abbreviation of the name of the charity and then the amount and uh, he’s got the date, it’s got the date in there too. And so that’s how he reconciles. Uh, so yeah, dozens of checks to charities per month that, you know, that’s a kind of giving that I only and experience with through him because I do plan to giving, which is on the other end of the spectrum of giving. Um, he certainly doesn’t consider himself a philanthropist, but he’s very, very supportive of charities and and how does he choose the ones? Well, first of all they find him, I don’t know how the list exchanges or sales work, but charities come to him. So they send him U. S. Mail. He’s got no email, he’s got no cell phone. Um We’ll get to vetting in a second. So charities right to him. And he read the materials he scrutinizes, he decides whether he thinks the work is merits, his giving and something that he wants to give to, something he’s interested in. And then he goes to the Better Business Bureau. Why is giving alliance report on charities? And why does he choose that one? Because it’s in print, there’s no going online to charity navigator or any other rating service. Uh, that’s online. He goes to the print the booklet. So Better Business Bureau and if he likes your work and you’re listed in the Better Business Bureau, giving booklet rated well in there. Then he writes a check and you probably, these charities are writing to him again a month later and there’s a good chance he’s writing a check a month later, et cetera. It’s a very iterative process. There’s no real learning that goes on. I can’t say there’s a feedback and improvement part to the iterations. But, uh, the cycle continues. You know, we need people like that. These small donors. That’s a, you know, some people prefer to say modest donors. I’m not commenting on my dad’s or anyone else’s character. When I say small donors, it doesn’t mean that he’s a small person. Just he gives small gifts. So I avoid the euphemism, I just say he’s a small donor. We need small donors like this. You know, they he’s loyal. Once you, once you meet his threshold and it’s not very high what I described, then you’ve got him for a long time. Don’t try to upgrade him though. He’s not going to become a major donor and he’s not gonna put you in his will. I’ll see that that part. So forget the planned gift. That’s not happening. No, but he’s not, he doesn’t think that way. He’s never gone deeper with any charity that he gives to the way I’m describing. We need folks like that. We need the, uh, $10, $15 $20 donors. And in some respects, he’s a recurring donor. I mean, he is a recurring donor. He’s just is not part of your monthly recurring program that’s set up automatic, you know, the automatic debits credits. Um, he’s not, he’s not one of those, but he’s he’s a recurring donor. So in praise of donors, like my dad, it’s very interesting to watch him. We’ve talked about his process. Yeah, We need folks like that. And here we are talking about future, um, or wealthy, wealthy folks. I’m sorry, first generation wealth. Here we are talking about. And my dad, is that the, well, these folks, I would put plan giving at the far end of the spectrum. So these folks are near there, but my dad’s at the, on the left side of the spectrum. We need them all. We need all these donors. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo, but loads more time for your partnership with F. G. W. S. All right. Finally, these folks are lone rangers. What does that

[00:35:39.44] spk_0:
mean? Um, we touch upon it a little bit where we, um, you know, they are part of this new class of wealth. They’re like immigrants in some way. By the way, I really wanted to recommend a few books, uh, not just mine, um, that really helped me round out my understanding. So this whole idea of um, think of first generation wealth creators as immigrants. Um, they have migrated from a different class altogether and enter into this world where the beliefs, um, the values and oftentimes even language, um, or foreign to them and although it’s great, this is paradise. Um, they often find that there are tricky conditions. Some even would say because their native born Children and grandchildren, um, don’t understand the privileged privileges that they were born and then we’ve gotten accustomed to you. Um, and the cliche or the adage or however you wanna wanna wanna call it shirtsleeves, to shirtsleeves, rice paddies to rice patties, wealth does not last past three generations and they know that. And so when you think about this special Land of Paradise again, by the way, this is uh, I learned it through the book called uh strangers in Paradise by James Grubman. Um, their need of born Children and a grandchildren, statistically speaking, will be deported back to harsher land where the first generation have migrated from. And um, and here’s the kick tony I, I just, I just found it fascinating and this is why I can talk about this, you know, forever and ever mismanagement of their wealth, taxes and inflations and bad investments. All of those are more just the natural delusions from, you know, the couple, two Children, two grandchildren, right? All of those reasons are reasons for wealth, not being able to last past three generations, but you will probably, I’ve never found anyone cases for example, or family where the story basically is, well, grandpa and grandma gave it all the way to charity and left nothing to us. That’s why we’re poor again, you know, that just doesn’t happen. And so what my I think what I really want to focus on, I think the opportunities for non profit is that what might there be an um different way to think about the conversations that you have with these donors where you help them solve a problem or maybe many problems and then you also help yourself um solved the problem. By the way, I’m getting like, way, way, wait, this is a problem when you we have no script. I’m getting like way away from the lone ranger questions. I’m going to bring

[00:35:49.36] spk_1:
you back, but I

[00:35:51.31] spk_0:
but I think I’m getting to the whole

[00:35:58.84] spk_1:
profit radio No, no, you’re not. You’re, what you’re saying is still valuable. Don’t don’t 2nd guess yourself. What

[00:36:34.33] spk_0:
I’m, what I’m getting at is that it’s lonely to be first general. It can be lonely to be a first generation immigrant. Mhm. Except that most immigrants have somehow found other immigrants and they talked, they share notes that commiserates, they help each other out. But um, first generation wealth creators are particular type of immigrants where for all the reasons that we’ve talked about, they don’t actively look for help nor was real quality help readily available.

[00:37:15.83] spk_1:
Okay, interesting, really fascinating analogy analogizing them to immigrants. Um, did you, did you put any of them together uh, since you met 20 of them and got to know them? So these folks that are, uh, feeling loan, feeling loan, I don’t know, lonely, I’m just using what I’m not saying, they’re lonely in their lives. Maybe they are, but they’re lone rangers. Did you, did you put any of these folks together? Say look, you know, I met I met so and so like two or three weeks ago. And she was saying the same thing that you’re saying, you know, one of the two of you talk or would you be interested? You know, did you put any folks together to help them? Uh commiserating at least maybe even help. Maybe at best help each other.

[00:37:21.08] spk_0:
I

[00:37:23.32] spk_1:
think I

[00:37:44.63] spk_0:
Would I would if I were asked, but with these 20, because of the promise of confidentiality, um, I don’t share their names or contact with anyone, but um, I have done webinars since then where I was asked. So how do you find these people? And then if if they asked me then I will help.

[00:37:49.37] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, well I’m like a connector. So I was thinking, you know, if I could get her permission, would you like to talk to her? Because the two of you are saying things that are really identical and maybe together, you could help each other

[00:39:15.72] spk_0:
as well as having very similar questions. And this is where I was getting at the opportunity part because they’ve asked questions like how much and when should I pass my asset to my kids and grandkids, It’s dealt with by, um, with wealth advisors on a very case by case basis. And I think that should be, that’s the way it should be done. But what’s really sorely missing is how do other families handle this right to your questions of? Well, there are other people like me, what do they do? Because they’re in my boat? Um, so as well as questions like how do I get in sync with my spouse? Um, and then they also have questions on like, how do you truly vet? um, a non, a non for profit, you know, and how do you help? Not my, you know, the nonprofits that you support become more efficient and they are aware that not coming off as because I’m a donor, I give money and um, you should do what I tell you to do. Um, things like that, you know, that productive relationship with nonprofits. So there are endless questions like this that they can talk about, not just commiserated, although commiserating is great too.

[00:39:49.42] spk_1:
All right. I don’t know. I think you could be a connector, a major connector. Um, and I notice I’ll leave that there. Uh, but you know, the title of your research is transforming partnerships with major donors. So, so let’s let’s let’s transition to some of those opportunities. You talked about problem solving that could be mutually beneficial. How do I would’ve fundraiser ceo approach someone with that with that kind of opportunity?

[00:39:59.62] spk_0:
Yeah, so I want to break it down to three steps. I want to break one,

[00:40:00.91] spk_1:
2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 3 step process. Okay.

[00:40:03.92] spk_0:
Yeah. Well, yeah, okay, you can call it a three step sauces,

[00:40:07.35] spk_1:
but I didn’t invent it, you made it

[00:42:35.30] spk_0:
up. I think the first thing is you have to really think about the questions you ask them and uh, oftentimes, how curious how respectful for how informed you are are all set out by the kind of questions you asked? Are your questions mostly really at the end of that they self serving. Um or are you only focusing on a very narrow aspects of the donors? Um or are you really broadly interested in problem solving? Now, here’s another thing that entrepreneurs like to do, they like to solve problems and oftentimes they take the same mindset towards non profit Am I really giving to an organizations that are going to solve real major problems in assisting for sustainable way. Um, so that’s the first thing is the questions that you ask And then two is reading once you really find out about uh, you know, what you could learn from the donors, is that really being able to pair what your nonprofits have to offer and that structure in a way as well as well as frame it in a way that, uh, fits the mindset of, well, oftentimes the folks are very busy, they know they need to do something, but they’re very busy. So, um, how is it, uh, how do you make it easy for them? In other words? And then, um, the last thing I would say is, um, it would how do you acknowledge them? Right. Um, it sounds really obvious, right? You know, their stewardship program, there are people will involve in thanking donors. But what I’ve found is that people found, uh, people thought there’s not enough thank you or there’s too much thank you. And they’re not thank through the right medium. And so, Uh, we’re not talking about, you know, $10 $20 where there may be hundreds and thousands of them and you can’t manage them one by one and customized it. But with major donors, it’s absolutely worth it to make sure that is customized to their preferences needs. So questions, the way that you frame as well as the acknowledgment part

[00:43:38.80] spk_1:
and the acknowledgement of the stewardship is interesting. Um, you say somewhere that they, these folks have a hard time understanding, uh, the name on a building. You know, why that why people find that appealing? Why some donors find that appealing? So, so a brick and mortar in fundraising was a brick and mortar recognition would not necessarily be appealing to them. But finding out what is appealing comes from, you know, maybe this, this three steps is sort of iterative, right? And if you’re starting to get near, uh, near something promising, you want to, you want to be finding out to about what they would like in terms of acknowledgement. Yeah. How would you like to be recognized what’s important to you?

[00:43:42.92] spk_0:
So I have a friend of mine who advised nonprofits with operations like this. And um, she helped one of them. She said, you know what, why don’t you just want to just ask?

[00:43:57.37] spk_1:
Yeah.

[00:45:25.09] spk_0:
Uh huh. So he did, he created a survey through surveymonkey and you know, they have more than a handful so they can’t just call them up and ask them individually. So, um, he created a survey and he got over 70 response rate, which is really, really good, right? If you’re for for survey. And um, so the survey basically center around 33 things. Um, how would you like to be think? How often would you like to be think and through which medium do you most prefer to be think? And it’s not only do they have really good a feedback, but it’s such a positive gesture from the non profit to the donors saying, hey, we actually admit we don’t know, but we care and we should, we know what we don’t know and we care and now we really would like to learn more from our donors And that truly is a practical, helpful, informative donor centric step to take. And by the way, her name is Lisa Greer. She also has a incredibly helpful book called philanthropy revolutions. So it’s a mixed of, um, it’s a mix of memoir, it’s a mix of research because she told her story, but she also has interviewed over 100 principal gift level donors and um, and uh, and the last mix of how to. So it’s super helpful.

[00:45:41.44] spk_1:
How does lisa spell her last

[00:45:45.69] spk_0:
name? G R E R lisa Greer.

[00:45:54.79] spk_1:
What else? What else can you tell us Esther that uh, in terms of approaching these folks? Um, how about you get, I have a question for a little more specific question. How about you get their attention?

[00:49:04.47] spk_0:
Yeah, I know, um, getting the first meeting, it’s like 50 or 60 or, I don’t know, 70 of the work just being able to get in the call. Um, I think everything matters in the smallest amount of space, which is if you have no other ways to reach them. What do most people do? Emails and so make sure that your subject lined is the most attention grabbing as well as intriguing possible. Uh, way to, to get people’s attention by the way I have. I don’t know if I can memorize the four persona um, off the top of my head. Oh actually I do, I have it right in front of me. Um, my colleague scott more Dell. Um, he is the longest serving ceo of Waipio global young presidents organizations. So these are a lot of the highly concentrated, um first generation wealth around the world, 30,000 of them are around the world. Um, he actually put the their philanthropic tendencies in four ways. Um the idealist is the first one. Those are the ones that you want to make a true impact, long lasting impact. Soft societal problem. Another one is called the legacy Leader. Those are the one who really loves to leave, make sure they name last generations and generations that they are getting credit for the big impact that they made. The third one is called the model citizens and those are the ones that look around and understand what is the highest and highest of highest level of service and they want to be there and the philanthropic effort reflects that. And then the fourth one is called the busy bigwig. That’s the ones who are busy, extremely busy and yet they know they should do something but they don’t know what and how and so back to your questions of how do you get their attention? I think you should first by starting with having a point of view of Mhm. Of these four possibilities which one is this person most likely going to be. And then once you have a persona in mind, then is a lot easier for you to craft a message with the subject line that is most intriguing and attention grabbing for you. I get, despite what my clients and friends and colleagues know about me, I still get these extremely bland and generic um email messages that are, you know, if you just replace the logo of the nonprofits, I will fit anybody

[00:49:11.38] spk_1:
at

[00:49:35.07] spk_0:
all. And so, uh that would be the first thing I think about is have a persona in mind. Even if you’re wrong, it’s okay. Even if you’re wrong, at least you have a point of view about that person. But the upside is that Even if you’re not 100 right, just having the personal, that persona is going to help you speak to that person as if you know a lot about them already.

[00:49:49.87] spk_1:
Are you only really only going to get to them through an introduction or like somebody has to give you their email or I mean there’s not a directory of first generation wealth creators, is there? I know yours was obviously yours was anonymous, but because they’re a I don’t know is there a directory or

[00:50:00.81] spk_0:
something that I think that’s a really interesting question.

[00:50:04.75] spk_1:
Basic basic is what I major in

[00:51:01.96] spk_0:
basics. So really, really interesting question. I love the way you think about things. tony Um Not only is isn’t there one um they really know how to how to hide their wealth. You know, they believe in stealth wealth, not only because of the way they live their lives, but they know how to put things in all things in trust and so everything comes through a different name. And um data can help, um, the right kind of data can, uh, data enriching as well as data matching. Um, I don’t know a ton about it, but I know enough because there’s another company that I co founded that like, that’s all we do because in the old ways, how do you get names of donors? Okay. You ask your board, uh,

[00:51:20.56] spk_1:
that’s how you start. A small organization starts. But, um, but then now, I mean, now we have social media and you can have a campaign and see who gives to that. And then you then you do some research on those folks to see who, who might be, uh, have the capacity to do more. And then you expand your relationship even with the others who may not have capacity, but our willingness.

[00:51:22.66] spk_0:
But see, I I think there’s a lot in your current database that is not being fully utilized,

[00:52:05.85] spk_1:
that maybe for some folks. Yeah. And uh well, because we’re talking about stealth wealth. I mean, yeah, that’s that’s certainly possible. I mean, these these folks live modest, live modest means. I mean, Uh at least outward. Um I mean what, 20 years ago, there was the book the millionaire next door. I mean that’s essentially what we’re talking about this is there are more Zeros now and there are more of them. And we’re in a more financially mobile society now than we were 20 years ago. But the concept is the same that there are these hidden families of wealth that that are may very well be in your database. You know, then it was the millionaire next door now the millionaire in your the ultra high net worth in your database.

[00:53:26.15] spk_0:
Yeah. And when you, you know, go back to the questions, the way that you ask questions of when you have an opportunity to talk to a donor directly. As well as the way that you ask questions about your databases. Um That can really help you look for hit millionaires billionaires right in front of you were in front of your eyes. I wouldn’t be surprised that there are already uh but you aren’t you’re you’re not even aware that you’re pretty close when lisa and night um because of our share passion about this topic and she’s really doing it full time. I’m doing this. This is because This is my baby. Uh you know the first time she wanted to make a a principal gift um to her local hospital. Um she uh budget for $2 million dollars for her hospital and it took the hospital seven months to pay attention to her. And $2 million dollars isn’t a small amount for that hospital. It is definitely a major amount.

[00:53:57.95] spk_1:
But the latent, unconscious sexism, I’ve heard this from women. I do plan to giving fundraising, but I’ve heard this many times from women just ignored when they made explicit overtures. Not just subtle hints, but explicit overtures. You know, I want to do this. I want to remember the organization in my estate plan and, you know, ignored, repeatedly ignored. So, unfortunately, what you’re describing, your friend, lisa’s, uh, I don’t think it’s so uncommon.

[00:54:03.23] spk_0:
Yeah, I

[00:54:21.34] spk_1:
think it’s, I think there’s some, I think there’s just unconscious latent sexual, uh, not sexuality, sexism, uh, uh, in fundraising, it’s and money is left on the table as a result, died from the morality of the, uh, of the, of that that misunderstanding.

[00:54:41.64] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. So, so it’s haven’t seen quantitative research on just how frequently that happened, but that’s leases from her research, from her personal experience from your experience. So I think there are actually plenty of money within reach of nonprofits that they probably have missed, but they didn’t know they have,

[00:55:25.64] spk_1:
we’re gonna leave it there, it’s perfect. Now you have opportunities and I know that our conversation has stimulated thinking about how to find these folks and how to transform your partnership with them Esther choi the research is transforming partnerships with major donors. I’ll give you the full title aligning the key values of first generation wealth creators and fundraisers in the age of winner takes all. You get the research at Leadership Story Lab dot com. That’s where Esther’s company is. Leadership Story Lab and also at Leader Story Lab, Esther choi I want to thank you very much.

[00:55:27.50] spk_0:
Thank you. This is such an invigorating conversation, thank you for the opportunity.

[00:55:47.64] spk_1:
Thanks for saying you’re glad that I asked you were one of the generous, generous guests. I’m glad you asked that I got, I got chills. Thank you Esther next week, overcome your fear of public speaking. If you missed any part of this week’s show,

[00:55:50.02] spk_0:
I beseech

[00:56:00.84] spk_1:
you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o

[00:56:03.44] spk_2:
Our creative producer is Clear. Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark

[00:56:08.57] spk_0:
Silverman is our web

[00:56:09.49] spk_1:
guy and this music

[00:56:13.74] spk_2:
is by scott Stein, mm hmm. Thank you for that information, Scotty be with me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for March 15, 2021: Relationships With Funders

My Guest:

Shavonn Richardson: Relationships With Funders
There’s too much transactionalism and not enough relationship building between nonprofits and their institutional funders. Are you a transactionalist? Do you want to walk toward the light of relationship fundraising with foundations and corporations? Shavonn Richardson can show you the path. She’s CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting.

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:00:13.94] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big

[00:01:56.24] spk_1:
non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of African trypanosomiasis if you bit me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Relationships with Funders. There’s too Much Transactional is, um, and not enough relationship building between nonprofits and their institutional funders. Are you a transactional ist? Do you want to walk toward the light of relationship fundraising with foundations and corporations? She, even Richardson, can help you. She’s CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting, tony State, too. Podcast pleasantries, reduction. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. I’m very pleased to welcome shaven Richardson to the show. She is founder and CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting. She worked as a program manager for a corporate funder, deploying over a million dollars in grants and sponsorships to Atlanta nonprofits. Now she gets grants for her clients and has successfully leveraged over $25 million in funding. She’s a Forbes thought leader and serves on the board of directors for the Grant Professionals Association. She’s at Shavon Richardson and her company is at Think and Inc grants dot com. Welcome to nonprofit radio Shabaan.

[00:01:57.78] spk_0:
Thank you, Tony. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:02.04] spk_1:
Absolutely. It’s a pleasure. Do you know the shaven Richardson who stole your name from Twitter before you before? I

[00:02:08.81] spk_0:
wish I could hunt her down and get her her Twitter tag. Yeah, that would be more convenient for sure. You

[00:02:17.04] spk_1:
haven’t. You have not threatened

[00:02:18.09] spk_0:
her? Not yet. Not yet. But if you find her, let me know.

[00:02:21.14] spk_1:
Okay, well, we know how to find her on Twitter. She’s Ron Rich. Uh, we don’t like her Shiban Richeson

[00:02:28.70] spk_0:
on

[00:02:36.64] spk_1:
Twitter. So you have the, uh, background of being a program manager. You are concerned that and I obviously you saw this as a program manager that folks are are to transactional, right? They submit these blind applications they don’t have relationships with with program managers like you. You wanna like you used to be. You want to turn that around?

[00:03:20.44] spk_0:
Yes. Yes, yes. I was a program manager at Bank of America Foundation. Oversaw a lot of the, um, grants that came in and sponsorships that would come in. Reviewed applications, build relationships with non profits. And I think my biggest pet peeve was, um, someone committee what we call a cold application without any outreach to our office or any connection or we knew anything about.

[00:03:25.44] spk_1:
So even with Bank of America, we can we can have we can. We can establish a relationship with a person at Bank of America

[00:03:32.19] spk_0:
Foundation that it is doable.

[00:03:36.64] spk_1:
Okay, all right. And I presume the folks with the relationships have a better shot of getting funded, right?

[00:04:11.94] spk_0:
Why are they overall, just in general? We’re talking about any funder, right, whether it’s a corporate funder or a family foundation or any sort of private foundation, the more they know about you and more about your nonprofit organization and more about the really valuable work that you’re doing. Um, they’re more. They’re in a position to make a determination whether they want to invest in support, that the work you do. So it’s all a part of getting to know you. You’re getting to know them and making sure that there’s an appropriate match,

[00:04:40.84] spk_1:
because the program manager is basically an advocate for your grant application, right? If they believe in it, then they have to bring it up. Obviously, it’s certainly a Bank of America, you know, to bring things up to folks, folks above to to get approved funding. So, like, aren’t you? Isn’t the program manager basically the advocate for the grants that that, uh, he or she believes in?

[00:05:25.34] spk_0:
Yeah, well, you know, they can be an advocate, right? It just really depends, because every fund is different, right? So, you know, some funders will have the program managers make the decision as a group as to who gets funding. Sometimes the program managers are in a position to kind of gather all the applicants, maybe writing a summary, uh, what the program is, and then maybe boarding it to a board of directors or a committee or a group of non profit leaders that are responsible for actually making the decision. But either way, a program manager is involved in the process. Um, and the more they know about you, the more that you know, there might be some opportunities for them to be an advocate if it’s appropriate.

[00:05:41.74] spk_1:
Okay, So if we’re thinking about, uh, let’s start with the corporate since you were on the corporate side and then we’ll talk. We’ll talk about foundations to, um, But let’s start with the corporate side. How do you? Well, I guess it starts with research. You’ve got to make sure you’re talking to a corporation that funds the type of work that you do in the area where you are, right. So it starts with good research,

[00:06:58.04] spk_0:
especially research, you know, especially large funders, large corporate funders to get a lot of emails and calls from everyone right about different things. But if you just start with going to their website and learning more about, they’re giving priorities. Every corporate funder has given priorities or their focus areas on their website. You want to make sure that the work that you’re doing is in line with one of those focus areas so that you’re not reaching out to a funny to say, Hey, do you support this really cool thing that I’m doing when it’s already very clear on their website that they do or they don’t all the times they’ll have, like a little survey of yes or no questions to see if you’ll be eligible to apply, so that’s that’s the first step. The next step would be kind of, um, the outreach, right? Some will say, Hey, we don’t have the capacity entertained phone calls. If you want to engage with us, please send in a l O I, which in our industry is considered a letter of intent or a lot of interest. So that’s just a quick summary of your program for them to get to know you. Others have just a general inbox, um, email that you’ll find on their website. If you have questions, you know, here is a way to contact us. So those are kind of like the first ways to start connecting with a potential corporate funder and build a relationship.

[00:07:11.57] spk_1:
If there one that’s willing to take calls, you, uh, you pick up the phone and what do you say?

[00:07:18.84] spk_0:
Well, I say they were at least I can say, at least for our clients that it’s a very strategic conversation we actually plan. Yeah, just don’t pick up the phone calls. They take calls school. I mean,

[00:07:33.94] spk_1:
let me chat them up about my work. Okay, So what do you think What are you planning before you before you do pick up the phone?

[00:09:00.44] spk_0:
Yeah. So if everybody gets on the phone, it’s always good to have at least one or two people that you’ve connected with, um, as far as their contact information. Right? Because folks leave, folks come and go all the time. So the one person that you’ve connected with, if they leave, then you’re you’re kind of out of luck. So it’s good to have, you know, to contact, right? Um, if you reach out via telephone to arrange some time on someone’s calendar or via email, I would always say limited to 15 minutes, right? They’re busy people. And in that 15 minutes, you have a clear understanding of what you’re talking about. Oftentimes with our clients, these unscripted conversations that we plan, we’re not scripted word for word. But we do have a strategy as far as what we want our clients to share during those conversations and really stick to it. Um, in the end, leave a few minutes for any questions. Um, always end with a like a follow up like, Hey, you know, how can we stay connected? Is it okay if I, you know, seeing you a letter from a person we just recently helped, or how can we stay connected and and And that’s a start, right? And to keep it a warm connection, right? Figure out ways to keep them engaged, to always keep my breast of the work that you’re doing. And I think the key point is to do this regardless. If there is a pending grant deadline, do this when there’s no grant deadline, right?

[00:09:28.64] spk_1:
I was gonna ask about that. Okay, So there’s no, there’s no even grant deadline yet. You’re just opening the channel before so that you’ve you’ve made the point in a couple of your blog posts or videos that, you know, don’t wait until two weeks before a deadline. You try to open a conversation, you’ve you set yourself up like maybe not definitely for failure, but you’ve You’ve made it a lot harder on everybody. So So this is before there isn’t even a day before There’s even a deadline posted.

[00:09:48.24] spk_0:
Exactly. And you know, sometimes if you do this work without a deadline, sometimes when a grant does come down the pipeline, don’t reach out to you and they’ll say, Hey, you know, we’ve been talking for the last six months. I think this is a good opportunity for you. Check it out and they’ll just forge you an opportunity. And that’s that’s even better, right? Because that means that your top of mind for them,

[00:11:03.44] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications. You know, the relationships that turn to has. These are examples. Examples. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CBS Market Watch, The Chronicle of Philanthropy. Those are the biggest. They have others, and they’ll make others others where you belong, where they can help place you so that when there’s a news hook that you belong in, they know who to call. They’ve got the relationships relationships. That’s how you get yourself positioned in the media that you want when you want it there at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to relationships with funders. You see the symmetry here you see, you see how it’s all connected with the relationship theme transcending. It’s resplendent with relationships. Unbelievable. So in that phone call or in these series of calls, as you’re keeping in touch with them, you’re trying to show them how your work aligns with their funding priorities. I mean, especially in that first. Like you said, a 15 minute phone call. You’re trying to hook them into what you do and how it overlaps with what they fund, right?

[00:11:19.94] spk_0:
Exactly. And I think when people go wrong is that they just they’re just so excited just to share all the work that they’re doing and they make it about them. But you know, these social, corporate friends, this is not altruistic. Giving is like it’s a reason why they’re investing in you is because you’re aligning with what they need to do. So always to keep the funder in mind and making sure that you are aligning to what they are looking for.

[00:11:46.94] spk_1:
And then over time, as you’re keeping in touch, is it okay to email them when you maybe have a big success? Or I don’t know, uh, email them announcements. Maybe about a couple of new board members. I mean, is that kind of stuff appropriate? Is that is that a good way to be keeping in touch with them?

[00:12:00.54] spk_0:
Exactly. Right. Exactly right. Press releases, uh, update new things that are happening. That’s always good to kind of keep them in loop. I discourage people from including them on your mass newsletter distribution list. Um, that’s a big no, no, definitely any personalized communication. If you want to extract information from your newsletter, that’s fine. But let it be personal. Let it be from the executive director. Uh, I know I personally have small when I’ve received stuff in the mail. Like I’ve received pictures of those that we’ve helped with a little handwritten letter in crayon. Hi. Thank you so much for the grant. That’s a tear jerker. And a lot of times I would put them up in my office. I was just going to say

[00:12:43.05] spk_1:
that. I bet you put them up

[00:12:44.01] spk_0:
in your office. I put my office

[00:12:45.78] spk_1:
crayon letters from, like, a seven or eight year old.

[00:12:50.24] spk_0:
Yeah, put them up in my office and, you know, there you go There on my mind. 3 65. So, um, getting something in the mail, you know who gets stuff in the mail anymore, right? So it would stand out. I’d say, Wow, it’s a package on my desk. What is that? And it really made a difference. So anyway, that you can engage them, whether mailing something or be email not too often, but when you really feel like there’s something significant that you’d like to share,

[00:13:50.94] spk_1:
so it’s not really that uncommon. I mean, it’s not really that different than keeping in touch with individual donors, you know? All right, So you’re saying you know, you wouldn’t include them on your in your e newsletter mail list? Okay, that’s that’s an exception. But you know, your major donors, like you’re inside individual donors, you keep in touch with them. You build relationships with them for when the time comes that you are going to be asking them. I mean, these are all strategic relationships. They’re not like you said. They’re not altruistic. Uh, you know, there’s a purpose behind these, but it sounds parallel to individual relationship building.

[00:13:54.74] spk_0:
It is okay. It is very parallel, and it’s so odd. I know I know a lot of fun reasons that are like, really good at engaging with individual donors, and I tell them like that that’s just not my jam. And then I think about it like, but there’s really a lot of like you could really apply to say, strategy. So that doesn’t mean that, uh, you know, it’s it’s necessarily a difficult thing. It’s just you just have to do it right? Like how it with a strategy and apply it

[00:15:11.54] spk_1:
because even Bank of America is made of people. Yeah, right. I mean, you’re you’re a person. You have feelings you like to be kept in touch with. You know, you like to get warm, soft, fuzzy, You know, things in the mail, like you’re saying so. You know, even Bank of America is made of people, so connect, connect on a personal level. All right. All right. So then let’s just follow that that relationship through a little bit. So now let’s suppose there is a grant application deadline Now it’s I don’t know how. How far in advance do we find out about these things? Like, three months or six months? Random varies. Okay. All right. So you find out now there’s an application. Three months, three months. You’ve got three months, but you’ve got a relationship with the with the company. Um, what do you do? You pick up the phone and say, Well, you know, can I apply or do you You just apply or you can leverage. How do you leverage your relationship?

[00:15:14.20] spk_0:
You pick up the phone, you send an email. Hi, Sally. We just saw that you guys have in our p available or a great opportunity available. And it’s due in June. Whatever. Whatever. We’re definitely interested in applying. This is the program that we’re looking for funding for. What do you think? Do you think this would be a good fit? Thank you so much for your time. I know your time is super, super precious, and you’re super busy. But thank you for your time. And any insight that you can provide will be very helpful.

[00:16:06.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um and then you go ahead. I mean, you got to follow. You gotta follow all the details. You make the point somewhere that if it says font size 12 and you do font size 11.5, you’re putting yourself at risk. Exactly. Okay. And then your work, of course, is preparing. You know, you gotta get budgets and referrals, and you gotta You gotta follow the follow all the guidelines.

[00:16:28.04] spk_0:
Yeah, well, a lot of our work, we’re unique at thinking and great consulting because we cover all aspects of great seeking from beginning to end. Uh, we do the nonprofit consulting to strengthen your organization, so you submit a strong proposal. We do, the research will go and find a good opportunities Will do the actual writing what you’re referring to. And we actually do the evaluation support. So we’ll evaluate the program. Um, at the end of the program, a lot of nonprofit leaders have to form four different relationships just to get all of that done. Um, but our team actually has people on staff to do all of those things, So we make it really easy for nonprofit leaders.

[00:16:52.04] spk_1:
We were talking about grants, grant application, But how do how does it vary if it’s if it’s sponsorship,

[00:18:04.34] spk_0:
uh, sponsorships? It’s And it’s weird because it’s changing with sponsorships. Before, It used to be just a marketing spin, right? It was awareness, and I’m talking about corporate funders. It was just bringing awareness to a brand, right, Um and it was tied to kind of like, you know how many people are going to see us and you know, the quality of the target market that we’re engaging and all that and I find that, like, sponsorships are getting more like grants now, like they want impact. They want, um, outcomes and objectives and all of that. So they’re kind of like a hybrid, so to say. But grants are definitely just, um, very structured. Just the classic K. You know, what is your mission? What is your program? What is your budget? What you’re hoping to achieve? How are you going to measure success? The application for a sponsorship, I would say, would most likely and again these lines are blurring, not be as intensive, although they do vary by thunder. Um, but, um, yeah, so I would say that they, for the most part not as intensive. But I find them getting a little more intense as far as asking very similar related questions.

[00:18:17.34] spk_1:
Are you seeing a lot of companies that want employee engagement as a part of sponsorship agreements?

[00:19:12.94] spk_0:
Absolutely. So the employee engagement pieces key and what that looks like is having employees opportunities for employees to come out and volunteer with a non profit organization. Or sometimes it’s the exact opposite. There’s some corporate funders that won’t even give to your nonprofit if it isn’t recommended by an employee or former employee is not, you know, um, active on the board or volunteering, or that they will see kind of employee recommendations before they give or give a preference. Or sometimes they’ll even be a question. They’re like, Do you have some of our employees that are engaging with your nonprofit like, What is their role? And a lot of those questions are optional, but some, um, won’t even give unless it’s like referred to employees. So employing instrument is key. And I think a lot of nonprofits overlooked at because that is something that corporate funders value. But sometimes nonprofits don’t always have the capacity to engage

[00:19:46.34] spk_1:
right, You know, if it’s a sizable company, I mean, they want maybe hundreds of employees engaging in a volunteer capacity or like I’ve heard of, you know, maybe stuffing backpacks or, uh, if it’s, uh, it’s a soup kitchen or something, you know, then then there’s ability for cooking and serving and an administrative work as well. But it could be like you’re saying. I mean, it could be a capacity thing like you just you may not have the capacity to manage the number of employees that they want to have volunteering.

[00:19:56.84] spk_0:
Exactly, because, I mean, you need a volunteer manager. You need to you know, it has to be a good experience for the corporate sponsor.

[00:20:28.84] spk_1:
All right, So you you got to manage capacity to think about what’s appropriate. But on the other hand, you know, it could be a small It might be a small local company where, you know, maybe they just have, like, 20 employees, and they want to send half of them, you know, once a month to spend five hours or something. So maybe you can Maybe you can accommodate 10 employees for five hours twice a month. Okay. Think about. All right. Um, what do you What do you say you mentioned the l. A y. The letter of inquiry or interest? What do you What are you saying in an l O I

[00:21:37.64] spk_0:
so L o I, um some some funders will give specific instructions on how to respond. It’s almost like a mini grant, right? Um, others are just kind of open ended. Like, hey, just send us an l o I. And so for the open ended alloys, usually it’s just a brief summary of your organization when I say brief, I mean brief. It is not. A whole historical layout of your organization is very brief just to give them some contacts for you to start talking about your actual program. So once you give a brief overview of your organization, give a brief overview of the project very succinctly and talk about how your project can potentially in line with a lot of the great work that, um, the funder is doing. Depending on who the front er is. You know, you may want to end it with, you know something to to make you stand out or really aligned with what the fund is looking for. But in essence, that is what l. Y looks like.

[00:23:39.04] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s Take two podcast pleasantries. I’m enjoying sending the podcast pleasantries, which at times have been podcast pleasantries. But they’re not today. These are the ones that have survived the pleasantries because, you know, it makes me nostalgic for the studio days when there were live listener love, affiliate affections and podcast pleasantries. Yes, the Studio days with Sam the podcast pleasantries are the only ones that survived. Uh, the other audiences, uh, Well, I cast off. It’s not that they not that they departed. I cast them off the podcast pleasantries. And I mean the affiliate affections and the live listener love in that order. So I’m I took the initiative. And what remains is our biggest audience. The podcast audience. You? Yes. You listening right this minute. I’m sending pleasantries to you. I’m grateful you’re a listener. How much plainer can I make it? And I don’t know. Yeah, I’m enjoying sending these podcasts pleasantries. They may end. I’m not sure. I’m not sure when the podcast pleasantries will end. Let’s just Let’s just go with it. See how it feels. Weak, Too weak. I think that’s the the best strategy not to make any commitments, long term or otherwise. Pleasantries to you, our podcast, listeners. Thanks for being with me. That is. Tony, take two. We’ve got Boo Koo, but loads more time for relationships with funders with shaven Richardson. Let’s go back to where you You are submitted your grant application. Now you’re waiting. Mhm. Mm. Can you leverage your relationship that you that you have with the with the funders to ask? How was it received? How does it. Look, What am I? What are our chances Look like, What can you do after you’ve submitted the application? Hopefully by the deadline. If you didn’t make it by the deadline, you’re

[00:24:31.74] spk_0:
out, right? Yeah, exactly. They hold fast to the deadline. I would say. I mean, this is very a really difficult question to answer, because while an application is being reviewed, you don’t want the appearance that you’re trying to sway a prog program. Managers mind or influence it while it’s pending. So oftentimes, um, if you check in, they won’t respond because they’ll say we’ll get back to you after X y z deadline. And that’s it. So for some, it’s it’s sitting. Wait, Um, if you’re fortunate to have some type of in and get some insight, then that that that’s just pure fortune because you definitely want to have the appearance that you’re trying to influence or get a ahead while they’re in the process of reviewing applications.

[00:24:45.92] spk_1:
Okay, so the decision is supposed to be made based strictly on the application

[00:25:14.14] spk_0:
at that point. Yeah, because, you know, it’s it’s a competitive thing, right? So, you know, you can ask all the questions you want prior to submitting, right? Build all the relationships you want. Um, once that deadline hits, they have all the applications in, um, they’re in the process of reviewing the applications, so you almost have to allow that to go. But if you do find someone that says, Hey, I was in the room and it gave great feedback or with the face to it, like that’s just that’s just a blessing, because that that definitely doesn’t happen.

[00:25:45.74] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. So don’t don’t don’t overreach like then you’re then you’re taking advantage of the relationship, and that’s obviously a negative. Okay, um but it sounds like you would encourage folks to to definitely be in touch during the application process while you’re if you’re not sure about what, How to answer a question or, you know, as you’re preparing the application, it’s it’s fine to be in touch,

[00:26:20.74] spk_0:
of course, and I would even take it a step further. I would even say, Don’t submit an application if you have not had some type of outreach or connection with someone in the office. I mean, really like like we call it submitting a cold app, just submitting it blind you’ve never had a conversation with anyone in the office, there’s no connection. The most likely look at you and they say, Well, who is this person? All right, Well, maybe we want to prove it now because we need to get to know them better. Maybe they will reapply, and we’ll consider it then. So I would definitely say before you even think about submitting an application to have some type of connection, some type of outreach with the thunder. First,

[00:26:38.04] spk_1:
let’s switch to the the private foundation side. Is it very different relationship

[00:27:59.94] spk_0:
wise? I think it’s the same relationship wise. I think access and capacity is different. Uh, there’s some foundations that have, um, our all volunteer led. They don’t have paid staff, right, So you may not be able to get someone on the phone to talk to. They may have board meetings once a quarter, Um, and you just have to submit and wait till they meet, right? And so the capacity is limited, But then you have other foundations that are very, very friendly and very open to talking to people and encourage the outreach and have the time and the resources available so It depends on capacity. I know that covid and working from home change things a little bit as far as capacity. Uh, you know, before we might have been able to get, um, folks on the phone when they were in the office. But now that their home, it’s like, um, they have a bigger workload now because of shifts in, you know, staffing and different things that have changed. So getting someone on the phone might be harder, because now they have so many applications to manage, right? Because every nonprofit needs money, especially now in the middle of a pandemic. So, you know, maybe when they were in the office, people endemic, they might have had some time to have a conversation with you. But now that they’re working from home, they might be down a staff member. They have more applications. Their capacity may not be the same.

[00:28:20.04] spk_1:
All right, so yeah, I guess you would start with the website to try to figure out whether they accept calls, right? And inquiries by phone, like you were saying on the corporate side. But after that, just I mean, if if the website doesn’t really say, just reach out and try and see what see what happens.

[00:29:23.14] spk_0:
Yeah, and I will also say not to to make it more complicated. There’s some foundations out there that don’t have websites. No way to connect with them. Um, you might get a phone number, right? Like there’s foundations that don’t have websites. And so that’s why sometimes beyond just your normal a Google search. Um, sometimes I will say, you know, go to a great writing firm or nonprofit consulting firm. And if they’re willing to do some research for you, um, go that route because I know we have, you know, just relationships with funders and people who worked with that don’t have websites. But we have, you know, the connection there and were able to kind of, like, you know, make an introduction or do something, and we have our ways of finding out who sits on the board and you know how to make those connections. And so, you know, try to do as much as you can on your own. But I would always say, like if you need help, like, don’t be afraid to kind of reach out for help, especially if it’s one time support, right to get of insight on opportunities are available out there and the relationships that you need to build.

[00:29:54.74] spk_1:
Okay, Yeah. A foundation that doesn’t have a website. Sounds pretty closed. I mean, they’re not even They’re not even telling publicly what their funding priorities are. So you have to drill down and do research. What about the, um Well, it used to be the foundation center. Now, is it candid the the, uh, the service that they have, which is a subscription service for grants for foundation research? Yeah, F c. I forget what it used to be called FC Something

[00:29:58.78] spk_0:
etcetera online

[00:30:08.24] spk_1:
foundation center online is that? I mean, I know, I know listeners have to subscribe to it, but is that a valuable, um, research tool?

[00:30:15.94] spk_0:
Absolutely. A lot of those those foundations. Um, some are have websites, some don’t. Right. Um and so using as a resource, you can always pull up the funders they linked to nine nineties. So you’ll see an address and a phone number and a list of board directors. And there’s a lot of insightful information, so that’s definitely a good resource.

[00:30:42.34] spk_1:
What about on the federal funder side talking about a federal agency. What’s the relationship building like potential there?

[00:30:48.34] spk_0:
Yes, that’s a good question. So it’s kind of different, right? It’s not as, um personal as far as sending emails. Hey, this is what we’re doing. It’s more informational. And so every foe. And that’s the opportunity announcements for federal grants, mainly. Yeah, we

[00:31:08.73] spk_1:
have. Sorry. What the heck is a PFOA

[00:32:25.64] spk_0:
federal opportunity announcement? You’ll hear it reference that you’ll also hear RFP but this RFP saying for I don’t know. Sorry, guys. Yes. Okay, so, um, so with that, you will always see a list of everything you need for the grant. What to include? How to submit. Um, and usually will have multiple documents sometimes. Um, if you go to their website, you’ll see frequently asked questions. Always attend. The webinar always have the opportunity to ask questions during the webinar if you didn’t attend a lot of times to have replaced. So it’s good to attend that first. And I say this because they always have a contact of a person to reach out to. If you have questions, you want to be able to reach out to that person. If you have questions but asking questions in a way that you’re kind of sharing more information about what you all are doing and building a relationship that way, like having a person that you can go to to ask questions. The reason why I heavily recommend reading the RFE in its entirety and listening to the Webinar because you do not want to ask questions that have already been answered. I don’t like that they don’t like that. You’re not demonstrating that you’re listening or paying attention or doing anything right. So having that person that you can ask questions is away. I mean, I don’t want to use the relationship, but it’s a way that so that they know that you’re serious, right?

[00:32:45.14] spk_1:
It’s a more professional. It’s more. I mean, these are all professional relationship, but this one’s a little more arms length.

[00:32:46.94] spk_0:
Yeah, more arms lane.

[00:32:48.64] spk_1:
Okay.

[00:32:49.23] spk_0:
Yeah, no sending. You know, emails of the latest updates. Like, you know, none of that. Nothing in the mail like it’s a professional relationship for sure.

[00:33:26.14] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um let’s see what happens when, uh, when you get turned down? Suppose you have the Suppose you have the relationship. I don’t care whether it’s corporate or private or federal, well, federal. You have some kind of relationship, but whatever you get turned down, But you do know somebody at the at the thunder you’re you call sobbing, you’re not sobbing, but you’re disappointed. You know what? What do you What do you recommend when you get the rejection?

[00:34:15.04] spk_0:
Yeah, well, you know being rejected is never easy. It’s often disappointing. I say that that that’s an opportunity to position yourself for your next wind, right? Um, I always ask for feedback on the application and some things that we could do better to strengthen application next time. I think that’s very invaluable to get that sort of insight and be able to resubmit. But taking consideration, the insight that was shared and also just, um, keep on applying for other grants. And I’m going to speak to the emotional piece because I think sometimes it discourages nonprofit leaders to a point where they lose their steam right, and they don’t want to keep applying. But I will say rejections do happen. Um, keep applying to the next great opportunity, see it as a learning lesson and see it’s an opportunity for the funding to get to know you better, and for you to get to know the funder better and just be more aligned with what they’re looking for.

[00:34:39.34] spk_1:
Okay, so it’s it’s good to reach out and get the feedback.

[00:35:52.54] spk_0:
I’m not. And with federal grants, I’m just going to add this. Um oftentimes, reviewer, um, well, provide comments on the proposal and know that you can always ask for those comments. Okay. And that’s feedback as well. So that’s how you get feedback for a federal grant for foundation grant. It’s Hello. We received the decline letter. Would love to get any feedback that you can provide to improve our chances for applying in the future or to be better line now. You may not always get a response because, especially with corporate funders, um, you know, they don’t ever want to put it out there like they’re giving one non profit and advantage over another. So sometimes they may just say if they do reply, they’ll say, Um, yeah, you know, you didn’t make it. You know, here’s the link if you want to apply it in the future, and so if you don’t get a response, don’t be surprised, but definitely try to get some insight. Okay?

[00:35:53.54] spk_1:
And you might have that relationship. Is it okay to pick up the phone to the person that you have the relationship with and ask them? That’s not overreaching it?

[00:36:05.03] spk_0:
Not at that point. It’s already been decisioned. Okay, Okay.

[00:36:08.33] spk_1:
What do you want to spend a little time talking about? I’ve been asking all the questions. What? What do you think? Relationship building wise. Haven’t we talked about that? You want listeners to know?

[00:37:10.43] spk_0:
I just want to emphasize the importance of doing. And I know that nonprofit leaders, executive directors, those that sits on sit on boards your time is stretched and we understand that, and we know it and there’s so many competing priorities. But I do recommend for nonprofit organizations to have a relationship building strategy. The top 20% of the folks on your list that you want to reach out to this year and focus on that 20% have a strategy in place. And it’s not only just calling and emailing, but also engaging in person when we’re able to write in the community right? That’s another way to build relationships and have those authentic connection. So I know it’s definitely sometimes not easy because there’s so many responsibilities. But it is definitely, definitely important. And it will take you much further than what you think.

[00:37:17.83] spk_1:
You practice yoga, right? Do does your Does your yoga practice inform your work? Is that impact your your work?

[00:37:48.73] spk_0:
I will say it keeps me ballots, right? Like I think everyone and I encourage nonprofit leaders and business owners alike to find something that keeps you balance. Because writing France, uh, is sometimes can be really stressful, right? It’s It’s a high pressure, deadline driven industry. Very cerebral. I’m fortunate I’m an introvert. So this this works very well for me, right? I am. I’m in the right profession for sure. Sound

[00:37:57.66] spk_1:
like an introvert?

[00:38:03.42] spk_0:
I don’t. I am. I am an extroverted introvert. That

[00:38:15.82] spk_1:
sounds a little a little oxymoronic. What is an extroverted introvert? You are one. But how do you It depends on the setting. Is that like you? If there’s a microphone in front of you, then you’re an extrovert. But if you’re at a party, you’re an introvert. What? How does that work?

[00:39:06.82] spk_0:
Well, what it is if you’re an introverted person you refuel yourself by doing introverted activities. So if it’s being by yourself or reading and writing, that’s what you reveal yourself. And then when you do extroverted activities, it drains you right. You feel like you have to kind of come back to your reading and writing to refill yourself. Extroverts are the exact opposite. They reveal themselves by interacting with people and talking and began doing things. And then if they’re doing something that’s like, quiet and reading a book, it drains them. So you really have to identify what drains you and what feels you and I know being introvert fuels me, and I do like doing extroverted things. But when I do them, I am completely a exhausted. If I’m speaking somewhere, I have to plan, uh, the next morning to just decompress and do some yoga and some introverted activities to kind of re fuel myself. Before I kind of get back in the mix of things

[00:39:20.82] spk_1:
you ride horses to.

[00:39:22.75] spk_0:
I do

[00:39:24.72] spk_1:
so that’s another. I guess that’s an introverted active right. That’s a solo. I mean, you could be just one of the person or something, but that’s pretty much a solo activity is,

[00:39:43.22] spk_0:
you know, and I look at the things that I do like to do, and they tend to be so activities. It’s just This is very strange, although I I like people. I have a great team, were really well connected. But I do know that I enjoy horseback riding and yoga and doing things like that.

[00:39:47.22] spk_1:
All right, the extroverted introvert. I understand now. It’s what you get, which you derive their energy from exactly. Okay, so now you’re exhausted talking

[00:40:06.41] spk_0:
to me for a No, I’m good. I think this was This was good. This is a nice balance for me. I think. You know, if I was doing a keynote somewhere, I’d be totally exhausted. That’s different. Yeah,

[00:40:09.13] spk_1:
non profit radio is not exhausting. No,

[00:40:11.36] spk_0:
no, it’s good.

[00:41:05.21] spk_1:
Thank you, Stephen. Thanks very much for having us. Sheldon Richardson. She’s at Shavon Richardson, and the company is at Think and Inc grants dot com Next week, Jeanne Takagi returns with Build Your best Better board, Bud. Maybe we’ll leave out the bud. That’s sexist. Keep that. Keep the butt out. It’ll just be build your best Better Board and Jeanne Takagi, always a pleasure to have him look forward to that. That’s your next week’s show. All right, if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows Social Media

[00:41:08.33] spk_3:
is by Susan Chavez

[00:41:09.70] spk_0:
Mark Silverman

[00:41:17.31] spk_3:
is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty, be with me next week for nonprofit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go

[00:41:38.31] spk_1:
out and be great. Mm, yeah.

Nonprofit Radio for February 8, 2021: Opera Singer to Fundraiser

My Guest:

Yolanda F. Johnson: Opera Singer to Fundraiser

Yolanda F. Johnson’s classical opera training informs her fundraising practice. She’s the founder and president of YFJ Consulting and the first African-American president of Women in Development, NY. She’s with us for the hour.

 

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:02:12.24] spk_1:
Hi there. I’m shaking it up this week. It’s a throwback. I picked an archive show, and I’m keeping it intact right down to Tony’s Take Two from Boise, Idaho, and the podcast pleasantries in the live listener Love you remember those. The sponsor messages are current, though. Got to keep the sponsors satisfied and fulfill contractual obligations. It’s from back When When we were in the studio, remember, remember the New York City studio with Sam? Sam Liebowitz, our producer? Yes, a throwback here is from June 28 2019. Hello and welcome to big ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with Hemi Diocese Asia if you blindsided me with the idea that you missed today’s show From opera Singer to fundraiser Yolanda F. Johnson’s classical opera training informs her fundraising practice. She’s the founder and president of Y F J Consulting and the first African American president of Women in Development, New York. She’s with us for the hour. I’m Steak, too. Hello from Boise were sponsored by turn to communications PR and content. For nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives. Prospect to donor. Simplified for a free demo and a free month. I’m very glad to welcome Yolanda F. Johnson to the studio. She has nearly two decades of experience as a fundraising expert and professional musician. She is founder and president of Why F. J Consulting and the first African American president elect in the 40 year history of women in Development New York. Her company is why f j consulting dot com Women in development is at UID and why dot or GE? And she’s at Yolanda F. Johnson. Welcome, Johnson. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Come a little closer to the mike. Okay. Classically trained opera singer. I’m surprised your voice

[00:02:27.70] spk_0:
If I’m singing, you’ll

[00:02:28.61] spk_1:
hear everything

[00:02:29.57] spk_0:
way

[00:03:01.44] spk_1:
may get to that. No, I wouldn’t put you. Okay. Um So congratulations, President Elect of women and Development with New York. Uh, you begin your term on July 1st. Awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. So timely. You see, everything in your career has led you to this day on. Indeed. Everything that we’re gonna talk about and and coming up, uh, culminates here. You’re at the pinnacle. It’s all downhill from here. That means it’s all downhill from here. I’m sorry. Uh, okay. So, uh, your Nebraska girl I am. How did you find your way from, uh, Nebraska Thio Professional opera Singing that Z, That’s not a typical trip for Ah, Nebraskan.

[00:03:12.54] spk_0:
Well, not necessarily so. But we all have our own paths. And I began with music probably four years old, and that was piano first. And then I started to sing in church, actually went to get a music degree of performance degree in undergrad in Oklahoma, went to get a graduate degree that had a focus in fundraising, arts administration and fundraising and then sold all my worldly goods and moved to New York. Because this is where you could do everything

[00:03:39.89] spk_1:
for singing, for singing principles originally or or fundraising or something else.

[00:03:45.07] spk_0:
Interestingly, I never did fundraising. Some people always have day jobs or you see performers and they have other jobs or servers or something like that. Hospitality. I’ve always loved both. I’ve always loved music, and I’ve always loved fundraising, and I’ve always had them in my life simultaneously.

[00:04:02.36] spk_1:
Okay? What does it mean to be a classically trained opera singer? What? What is that what

[00:04:08.76] spk_0:
it means? I worked really hard with lots of teachers. Um, toe learn proper technique to sing opera and classical music. Uh, opera and recitals. Art song. Um, I specialize in spirituals as well with the underground railroad.

[00:04:25.44] spk_1:
Oh, really? Okay. Um, we’ll say a little more about that. What about spirituals in the underground railroad? I mean, you’re performing those now? Yeah.

[00:04:43.84] spk_0:
Yeah. I have an album called Feel the Spirit Feel. Feel the spirit. Feel it. Yeah, And I have a concert lecture called a spirituals experience. You like that? Spirituals

[00:04:46.96] spk_1:
experience, spirituals experience, a concert lecture, eso that’s talk and singing.

[00:04:51.86] spk_0:
Yes. I teach people about the hidden messages behind some of the music, the spirituals, some of the things they meant with the underground

[00:06:00.34] spk_1:
railroad. Okay, okay. I haven’t seen a lot of opera. My the pinnacle of my opera attendance was probably I saw Aida in Italy at the Battle of the Baths of Caracalla, which is an outdoor. It used to be a bathhouse in ancient days. Now it’s, uh it’s a performance space and I was traveling in Italy. I just stumbled on these tickets from a booth on the street. Stumbled on those two. Yeah, they were. Well, I had to pay for them, but I stumbled on the booth that was selling the tickets. Just said Aida Caracol. And I thought, Well, that’s cool. I know what Caracalla is. Um, so I mean, this was a lavish. I mean, I eat it takes place in Egypt. Uh, I know, you know that, but for for for the Neophytes out there, uh, I need to take place in Egypt. And there were There were all kinds of animals. There were camels. I think there were tigers on stage, like 100 and 50 people. I mean, this was a lavish. There were live animals and lots of people. It was amazing. It was amazing. It was a beautiful night. Um, anyway, so, um, have you performed e

[00:06:03.98] spk_0:
have not performed the only one I

[00:06:05.22] spk_1:
know. Okay, e don’t even remember. This was years ago. I don’t remember, but I know it involves a queen and love and a mistress and Egypt. A lot of just like 90% of opera. Okay, Um now you’re still currently You’re still performing? Yeah, you have some. You have a show coming up.

[00:06:23.04] spk_0:
I dio have a show in August of Gian Carlo Menotti’s The Console and we actually put it in contemporary times. So it sparks dialogue about the immigration debate.

[00:06:35.94] spk_1:
Okay. Ah, nde. We’ll say it now and then. We’ll remind listeners at the end, where can they see the console?

[00:06:45.69] spk_0:
They can see the console. I’ll be Magda Magda in that production at the amphitheater at the Hudson River Museum in Yonkers. It is not upstate, it’s just the suburb

[00:07:13.14] spk_1:
Yonkers. It’s not yet well, right for New Yorkers, that’s upstate. But it tze not upstate eerie and buffalo upstate. Okay, but for geo centric New Yorkers who think this is the center of the universe, that’s you need a passport to get toe Yonkers. OK, eso if I don’t. If I forget, remind me that put little pitch in for that at the end to um so now you’re before we get to weed. So opera and singing informs your consulting. It does Y f J consulting very much. What’s the What’s the influence their of singing over fundraising?

[00:07:26.91] spk_0:
Well, since you know, as I mentioned, I’ve always had a love for both. I found this intersection that makes me so excited. And it’s using performance practice in philanthropy and and fundraising. I realized I was at somewhat of an advantage, right, because, uh, I knew how to get into character. I knew how to breathe. I knew how to get through things that make may make other people nervous. Um, by using the things I had learned as a performer and all the world is a stage. I have a workshop that I just launched a month or so ago called All the World’s a Stage, and it deals with that. It helps people. It coaches them through, um, being on that fundraising stage and using performance, practice, toe, succeed and excel.

[00:08:10.29] spk_1:
So we’re talking about overcoming the anxiety of what face to face meetings, uh, training session, public speaking, kind of public speaking,

[00:08:26.91] spk_0:
making me ask, making the pitch, knowing how to pivot if I’m talking to you and it’s not going quite right knowing what to say next. That’s improv. Improv. Yeah,

[00:08:40.66] spk_1:
uh, interesting. Because I was trained. I was I was coached, I guess, uh, years ago, when I was getting started, public speaking. I didn’t feel like I was very strong and my coach was a jazz singer and she brought in some elements of jazz, which is largely improv on Dhe. Then we thought this was incredible. She she and I worked together for a couple of years, on and off, and then she felt like she had done everything she could to help me, and she recommended I take improv classes on. I loved improv so much that I, instead of taking one class, I took four classes. Like in a year. There were three months classes. I think I could come back to back improv at UCB, the Upright Citizens Brigade here in New York City. Uh, that really she she did take me to another level, but then improv. Just the confidence of walking on stage with a scene partner with knowing only one word like knowing your first word of your first sentence and relying on your scene partner or team.

[00:09:25.64] spk_0:
And even if you’re not confident faking it until you make it getting into character, taking that breath, walking out there and just doing it, getting that performance done, whatever it is if the stage is the boardroom, if it’s on the stage, um, you’re always on stage, right? Pretty much in life. You wanna live an authentic life, but you also wanna be prepared and be able to navigate.

[00:10:52.24] spk_1:
All right, So let’s all right, let’s take our first break and then we’re gonna talk a little more detail about, uh, some of the things you just ticked off, like some of the some of the, um singing lesson performance lessons that specifically that inform your informed fundraising and speaking etcetera, little detail. Here’s that break that I inarticulately introduced turn to communications. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times CBS Market Watch The Chronicle of Philanthropy Turn two has the relationships with outlets like these. So when they’re looking for experts on charitable giving, trends in philanthropy, they turn to turn to turn two turns to you. There’s lots of turning going on because your turn to his client turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to from opera singer to fundraiser, say a little more detail about I mean eso I riffed on improv, but what are some of the specific, uh, skills that you could bring from performance toe help fundraisers.

[00:11:01.74] spk_0:
Well, one thing in particular, I think, whoever your audiences, if it’s 205 100 people in an auditorium, if it’s your board of directors, if it’s some major donor prospects, um, you know, always being prepared, nothing will save the day like being prepared. So you have to

[00:11:17.78] spk_1:
prepare. Yeah,

[00:11:52.94] spk_0:
nothing’s gonna get you by you don’t prepare. Um, but once you have that, there’s a certain peace of mind that comes And then so you understand your audience and you wanna make sure that, uh, there’s a level of comfort between you and them with, especially with American audiences. Um, we don’t breathe a lot as native speakers of English. Have you ever noticed? Well, have you ever noticed that you’re talking and you’re just having this conversation with somebody? Maybe not you, because you’ve done improv, but a lot of us other people were just talking and then suddenly take a really deep breath.

[00:11:53.59] spk_1:
Yeah, and sometimes on the show. And I think everybody here is my breath. I’m like some kind of Godzilla. Something.

[00:11:58.88] spk_0:
Yeah. You take a huge breath because you haven’t been breathing. You don’t wanna walk around breathing too much. But you want to relax, right? Because your audience, actually on the subconscious level consents. You’re not breathing, and it makes them very uncomfortable singing or speaking. If you’re going to long, they’re like, Oh, my God, she

[00:12:16.10] spk_1:
hasn’t. I’ve also done stand up comedy along with along with improv and the audience can definitely sense fear. Maybe it comes from breath. I don’t know, but they could tell when you’re nervous and that makes them nervous. And your material could be fabulous, But they’re scared for you. So they’re not laughing the way you want them Thio audience they can smell. Yeah, right. I mean, audiences consents eso you got okay, So be prepared. Gives you confidence. You’re not fearful. People don’t sense your fear,

[00:12:45.91] spk_0:
right? And then you just know what you’re doing, right? I’m having a conversation with you. Have done the research. You do your prospecting as a fundraiser. You read your lines. Um, you learn your music as a performer, be prepared, whatever it is that you’re doing. And then that gives you that peace of mind. So I’m having a conversation with you where I don’t necessarily just have bullet points in my mind that I want to cover. I have them there is back up. But I can have a real authentic conversation with you. Right? And and from that comes hopefully dollars and cultivation of relationships and augmenting of audiences.

[00:13:30.64] spk_1:
Um, anything else we can, uh, touch on Besides, Okay. So preparation, preparation. What about breathing? Are there breathing at Do you go through breathing exercises with clients? What’s a breathing exercise? Could we doing?

[00:13:32.79] spk_0:
Sure teach me. So

[00:13:35.25] spk_1:
I’m trainable. Do I need to stand up for it? We can. We pretend I’m standing cause then we gotta adjust the mic and everything. Okay, Pretend I’m standing.

[00:13:53.48] spk_0:
So whenever you take a breath, the proper breath is not a shallow one that just goes straight out front. Right? It’s ah, breath that’s barrel shaped. We have these muscles between our ribs. Everybody talks about the diagram, but think of your not necessarily untrue. But think about your intercostal muscles, right?

[00:13:59.57] spk_1:
That’s the ones that connect the ribs to the spine.

[00:14:01.62] spk_0:
So your breath should be barrel shaped, not shallow. There you go.

[00:14:05.94] spk_1:
And into the shoulders, like up, up,

[00:14:28.34] spk_0:
up. It doesn’t have to be affected deep. And then you control it out. Mhm. Whether or not I’m sitting there and I’m about to perform or if I’m about to ask you for $10 million you take that breath, then I can look you in the eye and we can have an authentic conversation. Okay. Did that help? Did you notice the difference between the shallow and the

[00:14:42.74] spk_1:
also the pacing of your the way you were talking to? Yeah, together. Okay. Like you change, you can change the mood in a conversation through pace.

[00:14:44.47] spk_0:
Exactly. And pace is very closely related to

[00:14:46.71] spk_1:
breath. You could get people’s attention with silence. You built in a little silence. Not awkward, but there’s some pauses. You could get people’s attention that way. Yeah, I do that. Stand up trying to get I do that sometimes. Stand up, take a pause. Like every second doesn’t have to be filled with syllables. Right,

[00:15:04.24] spk_0:
Because in the audience starts getting stressed out. Okay.

[00:15:11.04] spk_1:
Okay. All right. Thank you. You’re welcome. Um, this is very good. All right. So this is the intersection of performance and on dhe fundraising. And of course I mean, you’re right. We are like, sort of constantly performing and fundraisers all them or whether you’re in a board meeting where you’re in a 1 to 1 meeting and it may not even necessarily be a solicitation. You’re trying to get to know someone, make them comfortable so that a couple of meetings from now, you know, you’re gonna ask them to be, uh, step up for the campaign or for the dinner, or to be a major volunteer or be a board member. You know, whatever it is not only about dollars.

[00:15:42.97] spk_0:
Whatever ask it is that you’re going to make. You can’t just ask people unnecessarily immediately for money. You want to cultivate that relationship, and you wanna be asked again, or you want to have your invitation accepted the next time so you can continue that process?

[00:16:23.14] spk_1:
Yeah. And if it’s awkward, uncomfortable, you’re lowering the chances of going to get an email. Yeah. Yeah. You get an email after a call, right? You get a voice, you leave a voicemail, you get an email. That’s bad. That’s usually a bad sign. Um, okay. Um, let’s all right, let’s talk some about wid 40th anniversary. You’re the first black. Uh well, they’re all females. Your first black president of wid. Congratulations on that milestone. Um, what’s what’s coming up for wod This is a big anniversary year for we do.

[00:16:27.72] spk_0:
It’s a huge anniversary. Here I happen, toe. Just love this organization. I don’t just say that, um it’s been a really big factor in my fundraising career and in my life, and it has some amazing women that are really running this town as far as fundraising is concerned in the tri state area. Really? And for our 40th anniversary, um, we have lots of wonderful things planned new programming. We have a really row best programming schedule. We’re gonna delve deeper into some issues that we haven’t necessarily touched upon before about the experience of being a woman in the field.

[00:17:03.74] spk_1:
Like Like what? What are some of those issues?

[00:17:09.64] spk_0:
Uh, well, we’re actually gonna have a conversation about the role of men. Okay? You know, uh, and we’re gonna look holistically at the with woman and And who women are in the development field and embrace

[00:17:19.91] spk_1:
the role of men. I mean, like, I could synopsis eyes that I can summarize that in a sentence. White men have all the power.

[00:17:25.74] spk_0:
Well, we’re going to talk about that. Maybe you should come to that session.

[00:17:44.14] spk_1:
That’s very interesting that you say that I wasn’t gonna bring this up. Um, but I will. Eso Years ago, I tried to be a speaker at UID, and they had some kind of policy. I don’t know if it was written or or just, uh, er de facto, but they weren’t They weren’t bring in male speakers.

[00:17:48.69] spk_0:
Well, I’ll put it this way. Would is open Wit is really smart. Okay, I will say that not just because I’m the leader of the organization, but we were dealing with some really highly intelligent people who make really good decisions for the organization where it’s at at whatever period that

[00:18:04.22] spk_1:
was Well,

[00:18:05.94] spk_0:
I don’t I don’t know that they blew it. They just made a decision that was best for the organization. But that being said, um, we our mission is to empower women in the field, whatever that means in whatever way, um is appropriate at that time. And so, in this particular season, we’ve been around for four decades, and, uh, we find the value in having that conversation about empowering women And what does that mean? You know, how can this whole village of people in philanthropy empower women in the development field? And so, um, at that particular session, it would make a lot of sense, possibly for you to join us. Well, I would like committees listening. Right? We have witnesses.

[00:18:47.58] spk_1:
Okay, I would I would love to. We’re gonna send out live Whistler in love with you. How many are in Manhattan right now? Um, but I also want to make clear they don’t doesn’t have to be, uh, men in the room to talk about dealing with male

[00:18:59.69] spk_0:
power. No, not not. Not at all. But we, as women, have talked about for a long time. And now we need we want to look at it from a different perspective. And not only that, but again empowering women. So we have programs around professional development skills based, um, wellness. You know, we’re gonna be introducing that this year. We’re going through a rebranding. So we’re gonna launch that at our member meeting in September. Eso just lots of really wonderful, exciting things. We also talk about leadership, of course. You know, in the trajectory of ah women and development members career. How to assess that. And then we have this amazing network of women that are so supportive. There’s a sense of camaraderie with wood that’s just unique,

[00:19:42.25] spk_1:
is with National. And this is the New York, uh, chapter we’re talking about, or is with New York unique

[00:19:49.54] spk_0:
with other women and development. There are other chapters, but there’s not a national body that oversees us. Uh, but there’s a chapter, and there’s would Greater Boston. Um, there’s one in New Jersey. There’s one upstate in actual upstate, not in Westchester. E think there’s one around Westchester to, um and you know, we’re actually doing some research to really discover. So if, uh, your audience is broad, right all over the country. So if there are with chapters that we may not know of, we want to talk to you, actually, because we like toe toe, have a conversation with you about getting together and working together.

[00:20:27.14] spk_1:
Um, does wid you mentioned the network does, does does we’ve encourage mentorship. You must

[00:20:58.04] spk_0:
we Do We have an organic mentor ship that happens? I’ve had several really, really, um, pivotal mentors that have come through with that have taught me so much. Uh, and I think that we all find those relationships. It’s why going to our networking events going to our programs. You end up developing the circle of colleagues and really friends that it lasts for years.

[00:20:59.32] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s it’s crucial. I’ve had lots of guests talk about it, and I’ve experienced it myself. Um, mentorship.

[00:21:22.64] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s very important. And that’s one of the beautiful things about many and leadership with with our board of directors Phenomenal women. Uh, and I don’t say that I don’t give free compliments. Um, I mean it when I say that and they are so open to, you know, spending time with young professionals with other people if they have questions, um, really championing. And again, we all go back to empowerment of women in the fundraising field.

[00:21:41.18] spk_1:
Is there a coronation on Monday? Uh, Monday Coronation event that we should be attending at Cipriani, or oh, uh, no,

[00:21:49.60] spk_0:
but we just had our woman of achievement a week or so ago. Um, no, there isn’t it. It’s a quiet transition, but, uh, but nonetheless enthusiastic.

[00:21:58.04] spk_1:
What is your first official act? A ZX president.

[00:22:02.64] spk_0:
My first official act I already have a task list for Monday of some things that just need to get done. I’ve been working for a while, actually. Are outgoing president. I’ll give her a shout out here. Bryant, Um, wonderful person and leader. And,

[00:22:16.49] spk_1:
uh,

[00:22:23.04] spk_0:
she’s the director of development there. And so I’ll just be looking forward to a lot of the things that I’ve started implementing. Really? As early as January, she was very supportive. We started a system that hopefully I’ll be able to continue of allowing the person coming next, um, to begin the planning process so that they could be ahead of the game before that July 1st period.

[00:22:41.26] spk_1:
It sounds like you have that advantage. I did. And how long is your time? Two years. Two years? Okay. And 2020 is the 40th year of Is that right?

[00:22:49.83] spk_0:
This is our 40th anniversary year, but we’re gonna have ah, birthday anniversary bash in January to celebrate that we’re entering

[00:22:56.97] spk_1:
that. Oh, wonderful. So that at the Pierre Hotel? No. Would you like to sponsor? E Don’t know about sponsoring, but I might come. Where is it? Where you doing it?

[00:23:05.14] spk_0:
Uh, those details will be available later. We have a lot that we’re launching at the meeting in September.

[00:23:09.97] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. So, January January, Miguel in

[00:23:13.53] spk_0:
January. Not big gala, but big celebration

[00:23:15.98] spk_1:
celebration. Okay. Okay.

[00:23:17.86] spk_0:
Um, as an events person, I’m very careful about that. Word. That g word,

[00:23:34.16] spk_1:
uh, means a certain certain expectations. Right? Ah, 1000 people A tw the world over story. Right? Right. So, events, um, do you Do you still enjoy events? Still like, Do you still like putting them together? I mean, I know that’s not your practice, but you still like being the organizer of events

[00:23:41.64] spk_0:
on a personal level. I think I planned my first event when I was six years old.

[00:23:45.94] spk_1:
Okay, that was two years after you started music so late, Bloomer in events. All right,

[00:23:50.64] spk_0:
Um, and I personally, I love to love people through that they’re being bringing them together through ah, common bond. A mission, Uh, just, you know, an affinity for something with delicious food and for was ready for you mentioned food? Yes. Food

[00:24:06.69] spk_1:
and food and wine, I think are great. Lubricate er’s for a room.

[00:24:11.74] spk_0:
Yeah. You know, just it’s that sensory thing. Yeah, the sensory thing

[00:24:15.44] spk_1:
and sharing. It’s a share, sure, coming together with a table, not necessarily sitting around it. But it’s a buffet table, you know? Or if we are sitting down together, it’s sharing a space, That’s why. Yeah,

[00:24:40.14] spk_0:
exactly. And for a, it should have that same sentiment. I think you know, we’re all what makes it special is that you’re coming together to celebrate. It’s a culmination of them, you know, belief in that organization’s mission. Um, it’s not just the party, but it is a celebration, you know,

[00:24:42.34] spk_1:
Um, yeah, events. I have a hard time doing events. I just the details, like, Does the bunting match the flowers? You know, things like that I don’t have a lot of patients for So I am grateful that there are people who enjoy doing

[00:24:53.79] spk_0:
it. And I love campaigns. You know, Those are my focus areas with my practices, events and campaigns. And I happen to specialize in anniversary campaigns that culminate in an event. So, you know that marries those two

[00:25:05.90] spk_1:
things that the anniversary Yeah, the anniversary, as you’re doing with wid, should be celebrated over a long over over a long period, right? Plan. These things in advance.

[00:25:14.50] spk_0:
Yes, I mean,

[00:25:15.89] spk_1:
not just a one night like a one night thing. 40th, 40th anniversary night and then e. It should be multiple activities right through a year

[00:26:07.84] spk_0:
exactly on. So it is the 40th anniversary year. That’s why we’re starting in 2019. It’s the year and then it will culminate next year, and there are lots of things planned. So we have. We’ll have our woman of achievement lunch and again next May, And, uh, then we’ll have the celebration in January. But everything this year, you know, we have thematic concepts across a year. A lot of the time this past year was women in philanthropy, and this coming year is gonna be focused upon being around for four decades and what would has meant to the fundraising field. And, uh, and where it goes from here with has meant a lot tow women in the field. We have some real pioneers, um, many of whom are still around and still supportive of the organization, and we’re really appreciative of them. Oh, see, And I know I will, but you

[00:26:10.75] spk_1:
know, I’m not. Leave somebody out, right? And then you’ll feel

[00:26:12.90] spk_0:
bad. Let me do that disclaimer. But I am that type of person that loves to give people individual attention. And then I’m like, Oh, wait. Next week on your show, you mentioned these

[00:26:21.14] spk_1:
names. E o. I put I put her on the spot so she did not come prepared. But names, um, pioneers who are members of wid

[00:26:30.79] spk_0:
Linda Hartley.

[00:26:32.24] spk_1:
Okay, I know her. She’s been on the show when she came out with her book.

[00:26:35.73] spk_0:
When is amazing? Um, Shirley Jenks, who you also know

[00:26:39.17] spk_1:
I know Shirley very well. Done some work with her Shirley Jenks and J n ks in, uh, in here in the city.

[00:26:56.44] spk_0:
Margaret Holman is a past president. Margaret. She has a relationship with Nebraska to okay, she’s on the board of the University of Nebraska. Um, we have a current board member who just co chaired, uh, woman of achievement luncheon this past year. Jane Carlin, Who’s a beautiful person. Uh, and then Oh, my God. See, now I don’t know Susan Yulin. You know Susan because she know my favorite people on the Planet

[00:27:13.26] spk_1:
E. Yeah, but just generally, for non profits, do planning in advance of your upcoming anniversary. You know, if it’s your 50th year or some organizations you know, 125th year you wanna be start planning that a couple of years in advance whether there’s gonna be What’s it gonna be? Is it gonna be a fundraising campaign or it doesn’t have to be. But it’s a good hook. Whatever it’s gonna be, you should start planning out of major anniversaries. I think two years in advance or so

[00:27:42.60] spk_0:
that’s a good timeline. Yeah, it gives you time toe to think ahead and be creative.

[00:27:47.44] spk_1:
Maximum advantage. Big news

[00:27:49.82] spk_0:
hook. I’m a piecemeal or by nature. You won’t really see me dive into something and completed all at once. I like to be ableto work on it and take a step back. Go back to it. Have the daily experience of your life. Inform some of the decisions that you make, You know, you keep living life and things happening there, like, you know, I’ll go back to this and maybe I’ll try it this way. So, um, so what is definitely We’ve been planning ahead and we’re excited.

[00:31:24.04] spk_1:
It’s a life practice. Piecemeal. You say piecemeal. I would say life, it’s a life practice you come back to things. Um okay, um let’s zoom, Let’s take our break. And when we come back, I want to talk a little about your experience as a black woman in fundraising and ah, survey that we have, uh, so hang on there. Okay, great. Alright. Thank you. Don’t walk out now. Time for. Stick to hello from Boise, Idaho. I was just there for a long weekend. Visiting dear friends. Um, and I recommend Boise on, by the way, it’s Boise, Boise. I mean, you don’t Boise, but it’s not Boise for you. East coasters. It’s Boise, Boise, Idaho. Um, I learned just like it’s Oregon, not Oregon. There’s no easy Oregon at the end of Oregon. Um, a little bit of a digression. So, Boise, what about it? It’s got mountains, beautiful mountain range, snow capped mountains in the winter and the spring even when the temperature is is, uh, more modest, you know, down below the beautiful, snowcapped mountains. Um, they take their beers very seriously. 16 brew houses in Boise Now, I did not get to sample all of them. I went to a couple. Uh, I can shout out, uh, powder powerhouse h A U s powerhouse. Very nice place. Um, 10 barrel, which happens to be downtown. Uh, those air to that that we went to there was a third one. I can’t remember. They also take their food very seriously. If you go downtown. Around where? Around where? Uh, 10 barrel is 8th, 8th Street and Main Street. Lots of restaurants and other brewpubs and breweries not serving food. Right along eighth and main. Um, lots of serious restaurants there. And I don’t mean serious upscale. Just very good food. Reminds me of Portland a lot. In that respect, they take this food very seriously. Um, what else about boys? Oh, just drive 10 minutes, 15 minutes. You’re out your way out of the city. We visited a winery, so I’m recommending Boise as a travel destination. And there’s more in my video. Um, and you will find that at dot com. And that is. Take two. Now, let’s, uh let’s continue a little more with Yolanda F. Johnson and upper singer to fundraiser. Whoa, Look at the bursting. Oh, man. When we get to live listener love, we’re bursting. But we’re not doing that now. Okay? Bursting I mean, there’s a lot at first were bursting with live listeners on We’re on Facebook Live to Oh, I guess I should do is all shout out All right, Aunt Mary. Mary Bob Largent. Hello, Rosemary Video. Love to see you. Thank you for being with us on Facebook. Give us give us a little Give us a love on Facebook and I’ll be happy to shout you out. All right, so all right. So the power in nonprofits is maintained by white men. Uh, they’re they’re overwhelmingly the board chairs, the board leadership, the CEOs, the C suite, the senior fundraisers. What’s been your your experience as a black woman doing fundraising in that culture?

[00:32:19.44] spk_0:
Well, coming from Nebraska, how’s it going? And it’s interesting that it is a national issue, is it not? You know, no matter where you are, even in a place is diverse. A ZX New York City. That’s still our reality. And, uh, it’s obvious that, uh, philanthropy would do well from continuing, um, diversity and my experience as an African American woman in the field, you know, You know, this year we did a diversity Brooke and I did a diversity and inclusion task force for wid because we were looking at the room and amazing women. Um, but the room could be a bit more diverse, you know? And so we wanted to think about that. One of the first questions was, you know, is the field already diverse? Does it exist that way? It’s just that people may not, um, come out and aren’t necessarily feeling as welcome for whatever reason, or, um, are they just not there? And so, because of some of these studies that have come out recently, I was I spoke at a case conference and diverse on diversity and fundraising in Indianapolis in April, and that was one of the things we talked about. Is diversifying that pipeline for fundraisers because you don’t necessarily see yourself,

[00:32:47.04] spk_1:
Did you have you come to any conclusions whether it’s, uh, there, there are there is greater representation in fundraising, but people are not coming out or there just isn’t the representation that we’d like to see

[00:32:59.91] spk_0:
both.

[00:33:01.14] spk_1:
It is okay. I kind of think there’s more. The latter. They’re just not just not represented, but

[00:33:26.24] spk_0:
it’s both. It’s both because we have to make those efforts toward diversifying the pipeline. We have to look to the future. We have to look to see what’s happening now. We have to stay self aware and just aware in the profession. Um, and that’s the thing. You know, inclusion is the exact opposite of tokenism. So inclusion means that you’re naturally, organically there. You’re appreciated for what you’re bringing to the table. And when you don’t see diversity, sometimes that doesn’t come to mind. So one of the things with is gonna dio is really focus on that this coming year. And, uh, just make sure it’s on our mind, You know, if you have an opportunity to invite a speaker or toe work with different people and partners, Um, is there someone who’s just disqualified who may be a little more diverse? Um, thinking fairly, you know, they’re just disqualified again. Like I say, it’s not tokenism, but just making sure that’s on your mind, because when something is not on your mind, it’s, um it doesn’t exist. Okay,

[00:34:04.72] spk_1:
right. So, consciousness awareness consciousness. Yes. Critical first step, but necessary, but not sufficient. You know, there needs to be action. They need to be conscious. Action? Yes. Not just policies not just tokenism.

[00:34:40.04] spk_0:
Yes, I’m outcome oriented person. So I believe in the process. But I’m not interested in staying stuck there. So we have some definite recommendations that our task forces made to the board of directors that we’re gonna be implementing in the in the coming year. And so just toe elaborate a bit on my answer to your question. So, yes, there are fundraisers of color in the field, but as the cause effective study shows, you know, Yeah, um, mentor ship professional development, because, you know, they were still underrepresented. There’s more work to be done to get those. You know, um, professionals of color, all of the support that they need to survive and to thrive and at the same time work to be done to develop that pipeline so that we continue that into the future with great consciousness and then being intentional about it.

[00:35:49.54] spk_1:
I know that I personally have been paying more attention to this just within the past two years or so. Um, so but I don’t know if that s Oh, I see. So I Seymour conversations about this, but I don’t know if that’s because I’m participating Mawr and I’m or I’m thinking about it more. I woke. I woke, um, or if the conversations really are happening more frequently and there is greater awareness than there was three years ago, do you? What’s your sense? Do you do you think, Do you think there’s, uh, not not saying sufficient awareness or or action? But you feel like there’s more activity around diversity equity and inclusion now than there was just like three years ago?

[00:35:53.54] spk_0:
I do, yes, and strategically. So you know, I’m a strategic thinker.

[00:35:58.75] spk_1:
Meaning what?

[00:37:11.23] spk_0:
Uh, there’s been a lot that’s been going on for the past few years, but now people are really buckling down their understanding those exact, um, facts and figures and metrics, um, that they want to capture. And then we’re talking to each other more about how to move that forward. There was a great event, um, a week or so ago, on June 18th, it was held at the deep, and we there’s a committee, a host committee. I was on it. Um, one of the lead researchers for the study was on it, um, the a f p person who’s involved with their idea programming. Um, people from case. It was a pretty good host committee of us. And I’m sorry if I’m forgetting anyone and and then, um, on a barber barber as well whose? Ah, noted phenomenal fundraiser. We all got together to get the fundraisers of color together in New York City. And, you know, it was interesting because honest said to me, we’ve been doing this in D. C forever. Can’t believe, you know, like it’s interesting that New York hadn’t done it yet. And so we did. We got it done. We got together, um, divided. We fall united, we stand, and so we’re aware of each other more aware of each other. Now, instead of being siloed and in a vacuum of ourselves, um, for whatever reason, we can come together and work together and push everything forward, move the needle.

[00:37:38.33] spk_1:
Well, that moves that leads to empowerment. Exactly. Were working together. Okay, Um, so now you’re your personal experience as a as a fundraiser. You feel like that’s ah, anomalous for an African American woman? Um,

[00:38:54.82] spk_0:
somewhat I you know, I’ll give the greatest shout out of all to a woman named Lori Krugman from would be remiss if I didn’t mention her name, uh, jokingly call her my would mom. Sometimes she really brought me into the organization and and introduced me to so many different things and people that have to do with fundraising. But it takes a village, no matter what the color that transcends color lines. It takes a village of people sometimes to pull you up to support you, to help you get that professional development and to help you move forward and to encourage you. Um, it’s something that’s on my mind for young women of color. Of course, in the field. It’s something that personally is important to me because I think it does make a difference when you see someone who looks like you, just like, um, not only within the field, but even within your organizations. You know, Um, that kind of had gone over my head at first, and then I had a board member mentioned that to me where I I used to work and they said, You know, a lot of these kids are seeing you, and it makes a difference because they think that the executive offices, or, like the big bosses in the office, is up there in the executive director and all of that. And the fundraisers and philanthropy, That’s a whole other issue within it, you know? Do they really understand that this is a viable profession for them? You know, first, the profession had to get the respect it deserved on and then because, you know, we work hard and we’re educating this, and a lot of us have degrees that are focused upon this. We’ve studied the science of fundraising, and it should be fully respected. They

[00:39:11.86] spk_1:
used to be thinking that these event planners

[00:39:14.05] spk_0:
and right there, just out there

[00:39:17.53] spk_1:
holding your hand out and it just comes

[00:39:19.52] spk_0:
It’s like, No, no, no, no. We work very hard. Um, and so you have to have that first. And now we have to diversify. And we have toe really consider all of the different issues within the field.

[00:39:32.02] spk_1:
Um, the woman who you said you’d be remiss, uh, gave you guidance, Coach? Mentor? Um, she is at a white woman. It is Okay.

[00:39:44.32] spk_0:
Happens to be yes, but I had, um, some really wonderful African American women, obviously, who have been integral to my life. I had, you know, a good balance, but um,

[00:39:56.87] spk_1:
but it’s sharing the power, sharing the power. It’s important to have role models and mentors off of whatever ethnicity. Nationality?

[00:40:21.71] spk_0:
Yeah, we all have to work together. Because if you’re there and if things air imbalanced in the first place, then if white males air really? You know, at the the pinnacle of power, then you know. And what role do white females have Are females of whatever color, but you have to reach back, and you have to help people.

[00:40:34.41] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s why I say share the power. Uh, okay. Um, so you’ve had a, uh you’ve been fortunate and your and your obviously grateful,

[00:40:38.51] spk_0:
and I want to do everything I can for all of the

[00:40:45.92] spk_1:
president of wind. Now, you can lift up others, uh, and they’ll see a black woman in power at wind.

[00:40:50.01] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, I think that makes yeah, it makes a difference.

[00:41:05.21] spk_1:
Um, let’s talk a little about the this cause effective study. Okay. This is, uh, money, power and race. The lived experience of fundraisers of color. Um, are you familiar with what they did? I mean, speak to what they did. What the process was. Just interviews, etcetera. can you

[00:41:21.01] spk_0:
speak to? They did. Ah, lot of in depth work. Um, Judy and Cynthia, if you’re listening, this is the shout out to you. That’s the executive director of cause Effective. And then Cynthia Rhetoric who did a lot of work on that, and she actually engaged me. I was interviewed for this. They worked very hard at getting a diverse array of professionals of color to answer and to participate in the survey. Um, I was, ah, reader at the end as well. Um, another wonderful person. So Neil Omen. Um, I know he was a swell with a f p. And, uh, I’m very happy for them. I’m very proud of them. Of the work that they’ve done. This is a very important study, and I think it’s gonna be helpful. Helpful tool if we don’t set it away, you know, you have to keep these things out and keep

[00:42:23.50] spk_1:
remembering like the strategic plan that goes on the show. Yeah, cause effective, terrific organization. We’ve had guests on, um, Greg Cohen comes to mind he’s been on a couple of times. And then someone who, Uh oh. Now I feel bad. Someone who retired out of cause effective. She’s Greg Cohen’s neighbor in Brooklyn. Because I was out there. I was at their summer party last year, and they shared. There was a back shared backyard thing. Um, it’s not. It wasn’t Judy, though. I feel terrible now, Uh, she’s retired, so she probably doesn’t listen. Well, nobody listens to this show. E

[00:42:33.41] spk_0:
shouldn’t. Yeah, well, you

[00:45:48.49] spk_1:
just told me we’ll take it to make it. Fake it to make it that way. Um, okay, let’s take our let’s take our very last break, okay? And then we’ll talk more about the more about the survey study. Time for our last break. Did you like that? Take to throw back quote. There’s nothing as simple as dot drives. Our execution team meets once per week to sit down and go through our dot drives pipelines. It’s fun to watch them have a healthy dialogue and to see them get excited about their numbers rising towards their goals. Fun indeed. Watching numbers rise two goals dot drives has allowed us to take those relationships and bring them to a deeper level end quote. But there was little commentary in there. I’m sure you, uh you sussed that that was Wendy Adams, director of donor engagement at Patrick Henry. Family Service is prospect to donor. Simplified. Get the free demo for listeners. There’s also a free month, all on the listener landing page at. We’ve got but loads more time for this throwback with Yolanda F. Johnson from June 28th 2019 from Opera Singer to fundraiser. All right, now we gotta do the live listener Love. Uh, Steve Cook give you a shoutout on Facebook. Steve Cook joined us on Facebook and let’s let’s start abroad. There’s just so many I’m not even gonna use the languages. Like comes a et cetera. We’re just gonna go through where everybody is. Seoul, South Korea, Denmark. Jakarta, Indonesia. Tashkent, Uzbekistan. Who you’ve been with us before? It was Becca. Stand not the first time. Not not every week. Try to make it a little more regular. There I was. Becca stand. Would you please try? Toe should be with us every single week, but no live. Listen, love Thio. Hochi Minh City in Vietnam. Um, Porto Alegre, Brazil. Whoa! Tehran, Iran. Tehran has been with us before. Yes, not the first time. Glad to have you back. Live love to Tehran on Thio Toronto, Canada And now we made it to North America. So let’s spring in New York, New York. Three people. We’ve got multiple listeners. Looks like three while ago. Uh, right here in the city of New York. Uh, Gillette, New Jersey. We’ve got Brooklyn, New York, in, uh, we’ve got Clifton New Jersey. Wallkill New York. Woodhaven, New York. Bellmore, New York. All right, Staten Island. Staten Island is in Yes. Welcome Staten Island. Live love to Staten Island. So who’s not with us? Bronx and Queens Chicken. Maybe there. Maybe they’re masked. You know what? They could be masked. I’m sure that I’m sure Bronx and Queens are with us. So live listener, love, live love to you. Thank you so much for being with us. And for those of us on those of us those of you with us on Facebook live love to you as well on the podcast. Pleasantries to the to the over 13,000 that I keep saying it’s nowhere near that, but, uh, no, we have 13 over 13,000 podcast listeners. Um, listening in the time shift. Wherever you squeeze us in. I don’t know. Weekends. You binge. Listen, you spend Sunday listening to hours of podcasts on end. Thank you. Pleasantries to you. I’m glad that we’re in your podcast Library. Pleasantries to the podcast, listeners.

[00:45:58.05] spk_0:
Pleasant. That’s one of my It’s almost like a therapy. Oh, it’s almost like the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, the pleasant pleasantries to the podcast Listeners

[00:46:09.22] spk_1:
Podcast pleasantries. I’m a big fan of a big fan of, uh, what did you What was the little phrase you just said? The lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, lips, the teeth, The tip of the tongue? Yes. Is that little exercise? Yes, it is. Right before you go on stage,

[00:46:19.26] spk_0:
isn’t just toe enunciate. Like I said, native speakers of English. Sometimes when you’re, uh, enunciating on stage, it could be difficult to decipher what they’re saying. And so a lot of deep bonds going on and what we think is over doing it. But that’s what it takes for the audience to actually hear what we’re saying.

[00:46:38.78] spk_1:
It does the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue. Okay, what do you do right before you go on performance, right. The minute before your first appearance on stage. What are you doing as a thing as a singer, I mean, as a Well, I guess there’s any kind of performer. What are you doing in that last minute?

[00:47:01.58] spk_0:
Um, I’m saying a little prayer, okay? And I’m getting excited because I’m ready to share this with the audience.

[00:47:07.99] spk_1:
Your blood pressure’s

[00:47:10.21] spk_0:
sometimes, but not really. I’m pretty. Chill. I’m ready. Thio, go do it. If I’m prepared that I said I will never be that person backstage like, Oh, my gosh. I know I didn’t read any of this stuff, but I sure hope it goes okay, That’s terrible. Um, and so I just It is what it is at that moment, right? And so I just get excited and go out and share it. All right, Well, thank you for sharing a little prayer to Yes, definitely

[00:48:06.27] spk_1:
prayer. Alright. Um okay, So the cause effective study was it was interviews. There were surveys, lots of personal interviews. Yeah, people of color. Remember to stay close to them. There we go. Okay. Well, I wanna hear everything that you say. Um, so they learned some things. Um Why d I is important. This is interesting. Now you’ve mentioned earlier with you said we’d has a diversity and inclusion. You don’t include Uh um equity equity. Uh, it’s an I d I It doesn’t matter. I mean, were you short changing people because you didn’t include the ease?

[00:48:13.95] spk_0:
No equities? Not at all. Um, I guess it could have been a debt if, but it’s a d t i f. Um, the equity is inferred in that. It’s just that it’s not called the d. I think, and people have different thoughts and opinions on what each word means. You know, some people don’t like diversity as much anymore, and they’d rather focus on equity. E

[00:48:32.73] spk_1:
i e I All right. It’s like L g b t q plus. I mean, now we put the plus until it’s all inclusive. Just a part of it. If you’re not LGBT or Q, you’ll have to just be in the plus because okay, what did you say before? D T d t I f

[00:48:47.44] spk_0:
d I T diversity and inclusion task force.

[00:49:27.67] spk_1:
Okay, okay. We have jargon jail on. I hate to see imprisoned even for a short even for a short term. Um, so we know, I think we know why it matters. Um, you know, interesting. Making explicit that money is power. And for fundraisers of color, you know, they’re they’re seeking money from the people who have it, which are largely white and male. So that’s a that creates a dynamic for fundraisers of color that, um, white fundraisers don’t have toe sort of deal with overcome your depending on the opinions of the people they’re trying to get the money from.

[00:50:22.36] spk_0:
Well, and I wanna add to that whole diversity discussion. Donors of color, you know, they’re out there donors of color and tapping into them. You know, just like we have toe work on the pipeline. We have to support people who are already in the field, and we have to think outside of the box. And remember everyone who’s been blessed with, um, the ability to be a philanthropist. And what does that even mean? Now, you know when you think that it’s so pie in the sky, but it’s not. It’s right in front of you to be a philanthropist in many ways. You know, the Indiana University Women’s Philanthropy Institute. We had a partnership event with them in May, where they revealed some of the women give study and, you know, adult in tow. You know, how do you define being a philanthropist? So we have philanthropists of color that need to be tapped into as well That air, um, came be called ignored. Sometimes I think

[00:50:30.26] spk_1:
you find that you feel like we’re not reach. The community is not reaching out toe donors of color wealth, wealthy folks of color.

[00:50:33.78] spk_0:
I think it’s a complex issue, but I think I could say yes to that in some ways. Um, but remember that a donor of color, um, we’ll also have probably had certain life experiences as well. So you know,

[00:50:48.76] spk_1:
it’s Yeah, we’ll have

[00:50:50.06] spk_0:
Yes. Okay.

[00:51:09.32] spk_1:
I feel like we’re not We’re not We’re not getting thio. So I’m surprised that that you find that because if we’re if we’re trying to get support for our organization, I mean, it ought toe come from anybody who has the means exactly the means to support us. E mean, money is color blind.

[00:51:10.57] spk_0:
Amen to

[00:52:05.95] spk_1:
that. Okay, that’s an interesting insight. I never I have to think more about that. Pay more attention. I’ve never. I’ve never thought about that. All right, Uh, you’re full of good ideas. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Uh huh. Mhm. Okay, s. So I think we understand why the, uh d matters like we’ve sort of flush that out. So? So some of what they they say something interesting. Fundraising reflects and magnifies the racial hierarchies of our culture. That’s sort of what we’re scratching at. You know, um, it’s a, you know, fundraising is, uh there’s there’s just inherent, irrespective of people’s color. Uh, there’s it’s a It’s a fundamental power subservient relationship. You have money, and I’m asking for it. I mean, I do fundraising. I do plan to giving fundraising People of wealth have money, and I’m pursuing it. Eso there’s

[00:52:09.78] spk_0:
you’re definitely pursuing people that have a certain amount of

[00:52:12.27] spk_1:
Yeah, Well, now, modest people of modest means could do plan. Gift to That’s true. Let’s not forget, okay? Actually, just like anybody could put will request for 1000 or $5000 in there will

[00:52:22.92] spk_0:
probably And that goes to the same point of What does it mean to be a philanthropist? You know, if you’re giving $500 whatever you have to give. You’re still helping a cause. It matters.

[00:52:31.45] spk_1:
A lot of people don’t think of themselves as philanthropists, but they indeed they are. It doesn’t really matter. I mean, they’re supporting organizations. But people who write $20 checks, $50 checks, they don’t they don’t think of themselves as philanthropists.

[00:52:43.42] spk_0:
And I think that’s what I you is trying to get people to think differently, especially with women donors toe value yourself and to understand, um, that contribution that that you’re making to society through whatever

[00:52:54.68] spk_1:
the size well, they understand they’re contributing. What what’s the importance of? You could educate me again. Eso I’m trainable just need the ideas. What? What? What’s the importance then of them recognizing themselves as philanthropists?

[00:53:08.25] spk_0:
Because it empowers you in a different way. When I see myself a certain way, um, it allows me toe think differently. And when I’m making those decisions, uh, it might allow me toe to get involved with an organization on a deeper level on bring in my network. You know, we could talk about give and get so it can be open lots of different doors and just change the way that people think about themselves and about, um, the ways that they give.

[00:53:33.59] spk_1:
So we should be encouraging our donors to think of themselves as philanthropists. Yeah, including the 20 and $50 donors.

[00:53:39.70] spk_0:
You’re a philanthropist, and we appreciate your gift and

[00:53:42.96] spk_1:
that. Well, there’s always that. Yeah. I’m just trying to distinguish the philanthropy. Think of yourself as a philanthropy. Yes.

[00:53:48.55] spk_0:
And then, you know, it’s that strategic thinking. So, you know, it’s that same story of the whoever it is the janitor, somebody who passes away and leaves five million

[00:53:57.54] spk_1:
dollars right there lived a very modest life. They 40 year old car, they were driving or whatever, right? And then they have millions of dollars to leave. You

[00:54:04.70] spk_0:
never know you can you never. You can’t judge a book by its cover. And so you never know what’s going on. You treat everybody with dignity and respect and appreciate their gift. And you never know what network they might bring in or, um, people they can introduce you to.

[00:55:00.94] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s all true. Yeah, it’s just a philanthropist thing. Getting getting your modest donors small dollar donors to think of themselves as philanthropists. Interesting. Okay. Um, all right, So this is the, uh, talking about the magnifying, the racial hierarchies. Um, and we just have a couple minutes left. All right, so let’s leave the survey. That’s enough of that survey. Yeah. So, again, it’s money, power and race. The lived experience of fundraisers of color. It’s published by cause effective, which is, I believe it’s cost effective dot or ge. And now that you have the name of the survey study, you should have no trouble, obviously finding it and check it out. Okay, Um, a couple minutes left as, ah, professional woman in in fund raising your own practice, What would you like? Thio? Would you like to leave our listeners with?

[00:55:48.99] spk_0:
Well, um, I just like to reiterate how honored I am to be leading with in this 40th anniversary year. I’m excited about I’m continuing the work of my practice. We already talked a bit about events, and I also specialize in campaigns and in going in and assessing what’s happening with small and medium sized development departments and helping them to get to the next level. So I look forward to continuing all of that work. Um, and I also look forward to continuing singing have a vocal workshop coming up in a couple of weeks. And then, of course, the console again August 10th at the amphitheater at the Hudson River Museum. And it’s gonna be It’s deep, you know, using music, using art as that medium to spark the dialogue, the conversation, the thought about these current issues and you cannot make. Yeah, you can’t make this up, though. The libretto has not been changed. It’s 70 years old, and it could have been on the news last week.

[00:56:12.03] spk_1:
Really, it’s fast. Okay, when does when’s the opening?

[00:56:14.63] spk_0:
It’s when we talk. It’s a one night only thing. It’s August 10th 8 p.m. August 10

[00:56:18.42] spk_1:
2019. If you’re in the New York City area,

[00:56:21.10] spk_0:
check Yolanda. If johnson dot com

[00:57:34.32] spk_1:
Please Dio. That’s who she is. She is. Hold on to F. Johnson. Her company is Y F. J Eyes. Her company is at Y. F. J hyphen consulting dot com. Women in Development. You’ll find that W I D n Y dot or GE, and she is at Yolanda F. Johnson and thank you so much. My privilege. I’m back. It’s February 2021. Now, next week riel listening. Let’s talk. My guest will be Emily Taylor. If you missed any part of this week’s show from 2019, I beseech you, find it at dot com were sponsored by Turn to Communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives. Prospect to donor Simplified Our creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that information, Scotty, do with me next week for big ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.