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Special Episode: Coronavirus & Nonprofit Fundraising

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Paul Schervish: Coronavirus & Nonprofits
Coronavirus needs no introduction. We’re recording on Monday, March 23rd. Nonprofits are scrambling and struggling. The scrambling to adapt to workflow and personal upheavals will subside. The struggle will get worse: The need among those you help has increased and will become greater. Expenses of all sorts, from helping those in need, to disinfecting offices, to increased reliance on technology, are rising. At the same time, there’s financial pressure on your individual donors, in the face of firings, layoffs and work reductions. Your institutional funders are also pressured, whether private or public. Is it wise to spend? Can you count on your donors when this is over? Can you fundraise in the midst of the crisis? My guest is Paul Schervish, retired director of the Center on Wealth and Philanthropy at Boston College.

 

 

 

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[00:00:16.14] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%.

[00:02:25.94] spk_0:
I’m your aptly named host. This is a special short episode of non profit radio Corona virus and non profit fundraising. Corona virus needs no introduction We’re recording on Monday, March 23rd on profits are scrambling and struggling, scrambling to adapt to workflow, and personal upheavals will subside. The struggle will get worse. The need among those you help has increased and will become greater expenses of all sorts from helping those in need to disinfecting offices to increased reliance on technology are rising. At the same time, there’s financial pressure on your donors in the face of firings, layoffs, work reductions as the individual donors is also financial pressure on your institutional funders. Is it wise for you to spend? Can you count on your donors when this is over, whether individual or institutional, can you fund raise in the midst of the crisis? My guest is Paul Schervish, retired director of the Center on Wealth and Philanthropy at Boston College, were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. My Cougar Mountain software Denali Fund is there Complete accounting solution made for nonprofits. Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. It’s a great pleasure to welcome back to the show. Paul Schervish. He’s professor emeritus at Boston College and retired director of their Center on Wealth and Philanthropy. He’s the author of seven books on Giving and wealth. He’s been studying philanthropy for over 35 years. He’s at Paul Schervish. Great pleasure to welcome you back, Paul. How are you,

[00:02:32.87] spk_6:
tony? It’s a pleasure to be back. I’m just doing fine. Laying low, being an elder statesman, or at least another.

[00:02:38.77] spk_2:
No, you’re You’re here to provide context. Historical context. Which eyes going to reassure all of us. So the elder statesman is appropriate on. Where are you? Ah, where you staying? In place.

[00:03:04.57] spk_6:
We’re in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, where we moved from Boston. Ah, for 1/2 year. We live in Boston the other half of the year where our two boys live. But down here, um, is where our first grandchild arrived. And so we spend half the year down here.

[00:03:12.10] spk_2:
All the reason to move only only half the year. I’m surprised your wife, your wife would like to stay longer. I’m wondering.

[00:03:15.98] spk_6:
No, not at all. Because they’re two boys live in Boston. Grandchildren there, too. So, uh, there we go.

[00:03:22.82] spk_3:
Okay. Well, I’m, uh I’m several hours east

[00:03:36.84] spk_2:
of you. I’m on the coast in Emerald Isle, North Carolina, also also in place. And the governor today just ah, closed. Um, what

[00:03:37.22] spk_3:
did you do

[00:03:40.54] spk_0:
today? Today was just Ah, we already had. Oh, that was a local. Yeah, the governor today. Locally, they

[00:03:59.24] spk_2:
had they had done some things. But the governor of North Carolina today, Governor Cooper just closed. Um, beauty salons, massage therapists, barbershops, movie theaters, Jim’s, um right Cooper, Governor. Right, Cooper. Um all right,

[00:04:09.48] spk_3:
So what, uh, what’s your star general know? What’s your what’s your sense

[00:04:10.18] spk_2:
of what non profits are facing and should look forward to?

[00:07:06.64] spk_6:
Well, I hate to quote Rumsfeld, but what we’re facing is those I’ve known unknowns that he talked about, remember? He said they were known unknowns, and there were unknown unknowns, remember? And this is a biological event of an unprecedented nature. Not in the extent that we haven’t had major plagues in history, and we can certainly trace back to the 2018. Clue 2019 flu. I’m in 1919 1918. Um, but this is unprecedented in that this is taking place in an age of dramatic globalization and interaction, coupled with the dramatic situation of biological and scientific progress and and potential insight. So right now, what we do know is that this spreads quickly. It has a death rate that we’re starting to learn may not be as great as we had once feared. But what we don’t know is its termination date and how it will exhaust itself. And so anything we’re going to talk about for charity’s contributing to their, um ah, receiving money from their sponsors or charities contributing to those that they support Our, uh, philanthropy is contributing. We don’t have a time frame for this, like we might have had for recessions and so on. And even for 2011 29 11 when we, um, actually had, uh, on increase of giving within a year. So, uh, sound like Zach and, uh, the great recession of 2007 2008 29. Um, we had about a five year decline and terrible giving. It went up in some of those years, but the trajectory of charitable giving was down for about five years. If you looked at it as going up from a year 2000 2 2007 and if that had continued to grow, um, we would have had 350 billion more dollars given to charity from 2008 to 2013. So we lost a year. Charitable giving if, um, the, um, trajectory from 27 had continued unabated. So that was a longer hiatus and terrible giving. We lost about it. Ah, whole year’s worth. Over those five years,

[00:07:13.64] spk_2:
the trajectory of charitable giving is always positive that the long term trajectory

[00:07:18.80] spk_6:
that’s correct,

[00:07:20.44] spk_2:
okay, that that in itself is grounding and and reassuring. We always it always does come back.

[00:07:37.31] spk_6:
And I also think it’s important to note that something that Patrick Rooney and I Patrick from the Center on Philanthropy in Indiana and I have talked about is that even giving us A is a low ball estimate. We think there’s a lot more giving then what we can measure Ah, in a meaningful and in a sober manner. And this giving, of course, does not include all the informal giving that accelerates at this time that people don’t realize she could be recorded his formal giving or that people are giving and shouldn’t be recorded as formal giving. And it isn’t so. There’s a lot of intra family help at times like this that actually does make up for quote unquote the decline and formal giving. Oh,

[00:08:24.54] spk_2:
interesting. Yeah. So you’re you’re yes. You’re bringing now family family support. It’s just private support. Me. Could be family. Could be friends.

[00:08:33.22] spk_6:
That’s right.

[00:08:33.89] spk_2:
That’s not recorded as a CZ. You and I talk about non profit fundraising.

[00:08:39.43] spk_6:
That’s right.

[00:08:40.30] spk_2:
Yeah. Yeah. All right,

[00:08:42.54] spk_3:
All right. So then, you know, the non profit community

[00:09:00.24] spk_2:
has greater expenses. Like I was saying in the intro, whether it’s technology or disinfecting offices or, you know, uh, you are, of course, greater need to, uh to the to those who were serving and

[00:09:13.35] spk_3:
that just that doesn’t apply only to, uh, institutions, organizations that serve individuals. But, you know, culture is important. Yeah, Theater’s air closed now, but cultural institutions need to keep themselves going, whether It’s a museum or a theater group. Okay, These these air both closed now, um, but they’re gonna come back. And so the theater group theatre company needs to have ah ah. Pipeline of directors and shows planned. Um, the museum needs to think about, you know, curating for the future on being opened again. Will they will open again. So I’m not only

[00:09:44.31] spk_2:
thinking of individuals and, you know, bring in arts groups and environment of course. Mean so

[00:09:53.94] spk_3:
the work has to continue. And, um, in some cases,

[00:10:05.77] spk_2:
there’s a special, special, greater need, but the upset cause is greater expenses, too. Like I said, possibly reliance on technology irrespective of what kind of mission. So

[00:10:11.24] spk_3:
in the face of these greater needs, whatever form they take, um, are we safe to be spending

[00:10:14.24] spk_2:
beyond what we anticipated? Beyond what we what we budgeted?

[00:14:11.09] spk_6:
Well, the answer that I told my students over all the years that is the first answer of wisdom is that it depends. It depends on what kind of organization we’re talking about. Depends on whether a hospital depends on whether we’re receiving as a nonprofit organization or as a public organization. State funds to keep going. Let’s think of it as what we’re hearing from the federal government. What we’re hearing from state governments. There’s two arenas. One is the, um the people, the employees. And there’s a certain amount of expenditure that charities are going to need to support their employees. They way they want to support people in the community. It’s hard to treat your employees more harshly. Then you want a treat. You’re, um uh, the people in the community, Uh, these are your family members, so to speak. And so Charity’s first of all have an obligation, too. And we’ll find, I think, happy response among thunders for keeping employees uh, engaged and hired. Now we’re gonna have to work out the way there is the government non profit partnership here because of people are quote laid off that has some of their salary played paid for by unemployment benefits. And so maybe there’s unemployment benefits that the state the government will provide, and then the non profit makes up for that difference. To keep people from quitting or joining another, uh, employment opportunity. You see how this can get complex In a second area is the institution itself the survival of the institution. And just as the government is providing money for businesses to continue to exist so that there’s places for employees after the troubles are over, um, the nonprofit sector has to keep going in a way that there’s a place for the employees to be working and their jobs to be contributing to the community when the crisis is over, if there is a need for layoffs and we can talk about what donors may think about, but let’s just take one place to start. Let’s start with organizations that have no endowment versus for those with the small endowment versus for those with a grand endowment and what they can do. I think most universities they’re not laying people off, especially those with it was a great endowment. Um, they have the tuition for the year, even if their tuition driven. They have there the most of their revenue already in the coffers. They’re going to continue to grant credits, and they’re going to be able to keep their income stream alive at least until the beginning of the next semester. So that’s just one example. Often organization that may not need a dramatic infusion of charitable dollars at this point, and that takes us to the donor. The donor is goingto have to be picking and choosing maybe one that has contributed ah, large amount over years to uneducated l Institution might for the next six months shift that giving away from an organization that doesn’t need the money it much immediately to an organization that is proceed to be much more in need immediately

[00:14:15.78] spk_3:
now. So, historically, have we seen a shift like that? Have we measured that?

[00:14:56.45] spk_6:
Yes, wenn er the great recession took place 2008 2009 We found, as I said, a decrease in charitable giving overall. But giving too social service is was sustained much better. And after after 9 11 1 of the reasons why charitable giving didn’t go down. It was before we had this kind of crisis Fatigue, charity, fatigue.

[00:14:59.44] spk_7:
Um uh,

[00:15:27.84] spk_6:
9 11 produced a lot of charitable giving, and if it did it for the people that were, uh, immediate loss for their, um, family life and way of making a living, and it did it for communities and for businesses that were caught in that trap. And so the money shifted in 20 in the great recession. And it also shifted for crisis relief in on 9 11

[00:15:47.24] spk_2:
Okay, Yeah. 9 11 is a bit of a different case, because the funders, whether institutional or individual, we’re not enormously impacted the way we are are all now impacted.

[00:16:02.64] spk_6:
One time shock. Yes, rather than an indefinite period of time that effects that the wealth of the donors, um, directly run in. And you’re very correct about that.

[00:16:07.33] spk_2:
Yeah. Um, so that I don’t want to discount 9 11 lessons. I’m not. No,

[00:16:12.26] spk_6:
no, no, you’re not. You’re not, But it’s a very good point

[00:16:23.24] spk_2:
context. The great recession seems Maur. Ah, more of an apt analogy. Um, for that reason, if

[00:17:18.68] spk_6:
you ever want to know what’s going to happen, the philanthropy look at the income and wealth. Gross or declines that fire outstrips any tax effects that are written about all the time in the nonprofit sector. Worries about all the time. Um, we had a natural experiment after the great recession. Um, there was no change in the tax laws that took place for those five or six years. No, except the tiny bit in the marginal tax rate for capital gains. But that was not that important. Okay, so without any tax change, we saw a dramatic decrease and terrible giving due to the decrease in wealth and an income. And the income effect and the wealth effect far outstrip any of these tax effects that the charity’s air always be moaning. Whenever they hear that there might be a decrease in taxes. They feel that the discount rate for donors is going down, and they’re going to give less. Well, in the past, that may have been the case. But today, wealth is growing normally so greatly that far outstrips any effect that the tax rates have.

[00:17:45.94] spk_2:
All right, now, people don’t feel so wealthy right now.

[00:17:49.09] spk_6:
That’s right. And that’s why that’s very important.

[00:17:51.42] spk_2:
They don’t write and they don’t know for how long. They’re not gonna feel so wealthy.

[00:17:58.24] spk_6:
Are these so wealthy? Yeah,

[00:17:58.95] spk_2:
I was. Yeah,

[00:18:03.40] spk_6:
I was returning. Dollars have been lost in the stock market, right over 1/3

[00:18:04.35] spk_2:
of value in the

[00:18:05.30] spk_6:
market has been lost.

[00:18:37.04] spk_2:
Yeah, you’re right. I’m I’m thinking of the perception you’re grounding in the reality, but e I mean, they’re both The reality creates the perception, your question of how long after the reality subs theat reality improves, Does the perception linger? But right now we’re in the midst of the reality, the reality of the perception of equal. Now we’ve lost a lot of wealth. Couple trillion dollars. Um, people are concerned about their jobs. Whether the jobs will continue or or just be reduced. Working hours be reduced. So incomes reduced so over people are not feeling wealthy.

[00:19:29.04] spk_6:
Well, I’m gonna command Is that that for that insight about the sensibility of it did not in addition to the objective reality, because our own research has shown that over a period of time, very wealthy, um have an objective view of their financial security, but also a subject of one. And the lower the subjective you, no matter what their objective circumstances, the less they give to charity. And it is also true for people who are not wealthy, for whom income studies have been done. And when people feel that their incomes were going to rise over the next few years, um, they will give more to charity than those who feel that they’re not going to be rising. So it is even without the objective circumstance. Your note about the sensitivity is very important. And that does linger just as you suggested.

[00:19:51.74] spk_2:
I’m talked to a lot of experts. I’m trainable. I’ve heard this a few times, so I Hi, I’m trainable. Um

[00:19:54.36] spk_3:
all right. So what does that mean

[00:19:59.74] spk_2:
for fundraising? Look, I don’t mean this week or this month, even still March,

[00:20:08.64] spk_3:
but what does it mean for fundraising? Thio help counter

[00:20:13.31] spk_2:
some of these increased expenses in Let’s say, you know, April, May June, do we

[00:20:17.05] spk_3:
have to just wait and see? Ah, how people feel or or can we go out and test our our constituents for for fundraising messages?

[00:24:48.84] spk_6:
I think that what we have to do is have a fundraising message that’s functional. Are we disappearing? And are my workers disappearing? Or are we going to be able to survive? Now there’s two sides of this when we talk about a arts organization, a museum or theater, they have funding from fundraise from by fundraising, but they also have revenue from attendance. And so those that are losing revenue by attendance from lack of attendance are going to be suffering more than those that are just able to keep their revenue alive. Um, for instance, hospitals will be able to keep their revenue alive over this period of time. While arts groups may not be able to, universities may be able to keep the revenue stream alive Attn least until the fall, until we find out more of what’s happening. While some social service organizations may not be able to a large community foundations with endowments, um, we’ll be able to do better than those without endowments. Um uh, organizations that have AH connection to people with donor advised funds will do better because donor advised funds are are terrible savings accounts that people will be able to contribute from even if they can’t add to them at this point. So there’s all these dimensions. But what I would advise charities to do is to be very honest about two things. Their employees and there beneficiaries are their beneficiaries being taken care of without them at this point, and they can cut back on those service is or are those service is remaining the same? Are they increasing their employees? Are their employees going to be able to because of the revenue stream, mainly continue to be employed. Supermarkets, food banks, perhaps, and so on because they’re being supported by the community, Um, or by government, um, places where school systems air, providing our continue to provide the breakfast and lunch programs. They’re different from communities that are dropping those programs and need private funding for them. You follow all of this and I hope our listeners are So what I would do if I were a donor, as I would look to a charity and how honest it is to be about its two major instrumental needs. Its beneficiaries And those programs on the one hand and the second instrumental need its employees, and I would see what needs to be done about that. And you know what’s happening out there? Is that some donors air actually contacting charities and saying, What do you need? I know one family that contributes to an inner city school in Detroit, and we were talking with them, and what they did is they found out that that inner city grade school is using the chromebooks that that family has contributed two grades five through eight, and they asked, Do you need more chromebooks for your youngsters? that the parents can use with the kids. The answer came back. Not yet, but we may. But that was something that the donor asked about a specific thing that was specifically needed for continuing education for the lowers, the lowest grades in school, the way they’re continuing education for the middle school. And uh huh. So those things are happening.

[00:24:57.01] spk_2:
Yeah. So that’s right. That’s the individual that the donor reaching out to the charity. Maybe. Can we say, you know, I don’t know. Six. Well,

[00:25:02.35] spk_3:
there’s value in keeping in touch

[00:25:03.96] spk_2:
with your your major donors. You’re

[00:25:21.78] spk_3:
even if this is not the time to be asking them to give, but explaining what the needs are. You know, like that that example. You know, we don’t need Chromebooks now, but maybe in the future, you know, we’re stable now, but six weeks from now, we the needs, maybe X y z

[00:25:26.64] spk_6:
So, yes, that’s really

[00:25:28.31] spk_3:
being not asking, but communicating the needs, sort of like you would do with a friend or a family member, you know? No, I’m okay right now, but six weeks from now, I might need some help,

[00:26:06.14] spk_6:
you know, be in touch. Done kind of messages. Yeah, we call you. Yes, and I think that’s a great week. See, sometimes donors feel, um, neglected by not being asked. Isn’t that a strange thing? You know, you know, that’s one of the major things I call the new physics of philanthropy that instead of donors having to be approached and squeezed, donors are looking for a good opportunity to give. And especially if you’re already giving to an organization. You know, they value you and approach you just mentioned is a very good one to pursue.

[00:26:20.04] spk_2:
Same same as the board members who we find unsatisfied because they’re not sufficiently asked to contribute their their time and time and talent to the accusation that not asked to do enough. It’s the It’s a paradox that I’m asked. I’m not asked to do enough, so I’m losing interest in being a board member on the charity side. They’re afraid to ask the board members to doom or because they feel they’re over taxing them. Same. But

[00:26:50.19] spk_6:
I ran into a paradox one of the Kennedys at an event, and, uh, we’re

[00:26:52.04] spk_2:
dropping names now. Look, a dropping names, Kennedy family.

[00:27:25.44] spk_6:
Oh, no, no. There are in the Boston area, and it was one of the one of the younger kids and and we were he said, What do you do? And I’m going on He said, You know, one of things that happened the other day, I was really anxious to give to such and such, and they never asked me, and I was really kind of upset about that. You know, it’s just what we’re saying, and it’s a strange thing you may think, but you want to be valued for what you can do. And if you could do something, you want to be asked about it,

[00:27:28.74] spk_2:
right? And if now is not the time to be asking, now is a good time to be

[00:27:33.76] spk_3:
communicating about what’s happening at the organization, you know, telling your stories

[00:27:57.84] spk_2:
about employee dislocation. Um, parent employees who are now have kids at home that used to be in school, um, and telling the needs of the stories of your beneficiaries the stories of your building that you can’t access, but you’re still to pay rent on, um, you know,

[00:28:13.64] spk_3:
telling these stories the needs are just gonna be be evident and you’re not asking now, but you’re sort of laying the groundwork for asking when it’s, you know, six weeks of past or so 4 to 6 weeks of past. You’re starting to lay the groundwork. Not conniving Lee, but just being honest with laying, laying out the stories of what’s happening now, so that when the need is there, um, it’s not a surprise to your funders.

[00:30:07.20] spk_6:
Well, take you picking up on exactly what you’re saying. If I were to make one recommendation to charities and I have received from charities and from newsletters and from financial advisors, I’m on all these lists because I like to read and I’m reluctant to miss anything. And and most of them are telling us about the covert virus and what’s gonna happen and wash your hands and and we don’t know exactly what’s gonna happen. But you know, it’s time for the charities to start sending letters to their donors about themselves and their beneficiaries, where we may not be in need right now, but here’s what’s happening to us. I would be interested to learn from some charities what’s happening to us. Um, if Boston College were to send out a, um ah, a letter saying financially, we do an annual report, and, uh, but this is what’s happening at Boston College these days could be partly financial. It could be party, uh, in Roman issues. It could be partly added expenses, and it may not be a request for donations at this time. But to hear about what’s happening to the groups and the beneficiaries for whom you care is, I think, a new kind of communication that can be part of this Corona virus communications network and content

[00:30:26.09] spk_2:
and then in the in the medium to long term. Um, and we don’t know what that term is. Um, the history shows us that giving will recover.

[00:31:15.48] spk_6:
That is correct. Let’s think of churches right now. Um, it is kind of a paradigm they’re not holding. Service is, um, now a lot of churches get their revenue by the collection basket each Sunday. Others get the major portion of theirs Bye pledges in November, December, and so on. Those that get their revenue by pledges and have regular communication and maybe are doing service is on the Web, or so one are gonna be more in connection with their donors and those that are supporting it. But church is an interesting thing. See churches, an organization that the donor uses, the donor and the recipient to a church

[00:31:17.83] spk_9:
is the same person, the same

[00:31:43.58] spk_6:
family. Yeah, and so there’s a close identification there. But there’s also the fact that if you’re not using the service is at the present time, does that distance you more then from the organizations whom you contribute to but you don’t use? The service is from so we’re gonna have to see right or will people say their church can continue? I don’t mind it if we have to cut back a little bit as long as our pastor is paid or our pastors air paid.

[00:31:55.27] spk_7:
Um mmm. But

[00:33:37.24] spk_6:
maybe other things are a priority, But we’ll see. And this is the uncertainty that’s plaguing the stock market. It’s played in charity. It’s plaguing donors. It’s plaguing charities. It’s plaguing foundations. Everywhere you look, it’s playing in the medical world, this uncertainty and it would just be maybe a miracle. Maybe a great lesson, maybe just the way things play out. Or maybe all of those that if this were to have a shorter six week duration in the United States or across the world. Um, it’s section of the world having a six week duration of this in which it peaks and then true tales. Or there’s some biological discovery or scientific breakthrough. Um, this could change this whole crisis. And I think behind everybody’s anxiousness is also this maybe even on reasonable hope. That is also at play. And so there is some of this. We’re in crisis now, but maybe there won’t be a crisis in two months or six weeks. I will begin to see this curtail. Um, the stock market does not seem to be saying this is short life or this is turning the corner.

[00:33:51.34] spk_2:
Yeah, they didn’t seem to be. There’s not commentary suggesting that, but that’s that is reasonable. I know you’re you’re capturing it. You’re calling an unreasonable, unreasonable hope. It’s all the All the medical commentary is that we haven’t seen the worst. It’s gonna get much worse before it gets any better.

[00:34:47.99] spk_6:
Yeah, and, ah, But if there is a biological breakthrough with some of the medications that they talk about low key at the present time, even today again, they say there’s close to more than 1/2 a dozen that they’re starting to experiment with and mixtures and so on. There just might be something there, but we’re not. We’re not a piece. By finding out the young people are perhaps more vulnerable than we thought. Our at least. Ah, the carriers more more being carriers and them congregating and not stopping to congregate could be a factor. That’s just gonna leave this to continue longer. We don’t know people after 14 days are still contagious the way they were previously. All these things you’re gonna make all the difference in the world. But I’m not a medal.

[00:35:48.74] spk_2:
Right? So bring it, bring it back to nonprofits, you know? Yeah, there’s enormous uncertainty. Um, but we don’t want you to lose your head heads. And it’s not what individual one collective head. We don’t want you to lose your heads. We don’t want you to lose your humanity. Um, share the share. What’s happening with your funders, including institutional. Um, and, um, and, you know, be grounded in the confidence that your major donors will be there for you when they can, and that giving overall will recover in the in the mid to long term And I understand. You know, we don’t know what that what those terms are, but it will. So, you know, I think you go about your work in Ah, you know, in a in a thoughtful, uh, in a thoughtful way. Even even with, uh, you know, even with uncertainty

[00:36:36.53] spk_6:
now, there’s, uh, four areas that, while hindered and lessened by the drops in the stock market, remain good potential. Um, sources of giving. Let’s start with donor advised funds. Most people in their donor advised funds have, ah, their investments invested in various kinds of stock funds, mutual funds. But that doesn’t mean that they’ve been emptied out and you can give from them a second source that charities ought to be asking and reminding people about is the required minimum distributions

[00:36:48.47] spk_2:
All right, the IRA?

[00:37:31.36] spk_6:
Yeah, that’s right. And that money has to be taken out this year. No matter what’s happening in the stock market, you’ve got to take out what they designated from last January 1st right is the amount. And if you are above a certain amount of wealth, that $100,000 that you can contribute that limit from your r. M. D is not much to you and can really be activated for large numbers of people that are pretty wealthy or higher, affluent. And the charities can educate about that. They can also put on their websites a buttons that are now being developed to contribute from RMDS and to contribute from donor advised funds

[00:37:41.81] spk_2:
before we go 23 and four. Where can you name any place where you’re seeing these

[00:37:52.43] spk_6:
buttons? I can’t. All I know is that I’ve seen in the past, um, discussions about them and advertisements for them. I don’t think it would be hard for any charity to say. Um how do I,

[00:38:03.58] spk_7:
um uh,

[00:38:05.52] spk_6:
website button for a donor advice fund for gifts from donor advice when they’re gonna be advertising to make sure you know about it so they won’t be hard to find.

[00:38:15.72] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. What’s what’s number three?

[00:38:41.72] spk_6:
Number number three would be foundations that despite a decrease in their assets right now, I still have large pools of money. They can, since they can average over a period of years, their quote 5% requirement of donation they can, without worrying about keeping us up forever, contribute 7% this year and give less next year. If the crisis doesn’t continue, Our that becomes a possibility because of the ability to average out over three years. That 5% column me on that. Okay.

[00:39:24.22] spk_2:
Again? Yes. So keep in touch with your institutional funders again. This may not be that this is not the week or maybe even the month or the couple of several weeks to be asking, but keep in touch. You know, institutions are made of people. Institutional funders are made up of people, project officers, program officers. Um, let them hear from you. Okay, what’s your number? Four?

[00:40:12.21] spk_6:
Number four is something that is really connected in a way to all the others. Um, and that’s your endowment spending from your endowment. What else is it for? I mean, it can be, ah, security blanket, but it’s time for people. Two makes some may be emotional sacrifice not just a financial one, but an emotional one that says that I don’t have to keep accumulating in my endowment. I can spend some of it for a crisis, and that’s what it’s for. In part, it’s not just to provide long term security, but don’t forget without spending from your endowment. Your long term security maybe undercut by this short term crisis.

[00:40:41.41] spk_2:
That’s a very good point. Yeah, because I’m of course, that requires board action and thoughtful planning, but yeah, that’s a very good point. You’re You may undercut your long term by being, ah, to, um, too cautious in the immediate term.

[00:40:45.01] spk_6:
That’s right. We may

[00:40:55.01] spk_2:
not be the may not be a middle long term for you if you’re not cautious in the short term. And if you have the endowment wherewithal Ah, that maybe that’s that’s worth looking at through.

[00:41:06.31] spk_6:
And And, of course, you know that’s not a bad message to your donors that you’re willing to put quote your money on the line as well. Yeah,

[00:41:10.31] spk_2:
we’re not just asking for you, right, But we’re we’re dipping into our own long term savings

[00:41:13.12] spk_6:
yet instead of grown on, have made us a good institution. And we’re going to come out of this a great institution, you know,

[00:41:58.05] spk_2:
and, ah, A footnote for organizations that don’t have an endowment when we’re through this, uh, endowment growth or endowment creation is something for you to go to make a priority again. When we’re through this planned giving can be very good at that. However, you’re gonna do it if you don’t have that endowment. That forthe problem that you just mentioned. Paul, Um, it’s it’s something to make a priority for the next the next crisis.

[00:41:59.27] spk_6:
And you will say that’s why we’re raising, you know, And then people will understand it at this point,

[00:42:05.84] spk_2:
especially after this, right? All right, again, a footnote. I footnoted. I think that’s where it belongs. Uh, footnote not an end note. I prefer footnotes. Then I want to flip to the back of the book all the time. I don’t know. I have more footnotes over in there.

[00:44:10.99] spk_6:
One more footnote would be something you hinted at earlier. So we’ll move in from the back of the book to the page. And that is, um, treating your donors in the way that you want to treat your beneficiaries. Um, I always say this to universities. When I give talks, you have the students in front of you yet Boston College and Holy Cross at Harvard wherever and Emerson College. I just think a few of University of Detroit where I will and you want to treat this student, not only to information you want to treat them to personal formation. And when they graduate, you sometimes forget that you still want to be part of their personal happiness in formation, and all you want is their money. And so this is a time to remember what you ought to be doing all the time. And you were suggesting being in contact with your donors, you’re being in contact with your donors and maybe asking him how you do it. You’re part of us. I’m not just asking you this because you’ve given us money and we hope that you will continue to honor us with your gifts in the future. We’re sincerely interested in you, and we know that those that donate tow us are as anxious and worried about their families as we are about our own. And we are about the people we serve. How about a letter like that that is sincere to the very bottom of your heart? Because these are your constituents to your donors are part of your constituents.

[00:44:46.49] spk_2:
I love it, Paul. I’m thinking about a video on that exact subject around planned giving, which is what I do. Plan to giving consulting and, uh, using this as a time to do send exactly those kinds of messages with people you’re close enough to It could be a phone call. It could be a short hand written note. Um, you know, it doesn’t have to be. Ah, Doesn’t have to be an elaborate letter. Then that’d be a long letter. It never takes length. Month never trumps sincerity. And, uh, and genuine genuineness.

[00:44:52.59] spk_6:
Your donorsnames. Right? I get letters. That’s a deer. A p

[00:44:54.69] spk_2:
Okay. Yeah, Well, that’s that’s your database. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, that’s all. Another subject.

[00:44:59.85] spk_6:
But no, don’t screw that up when you’re writing a good letter.

[00:45:06.69] spk_2:
Yeah, that’s true. You’re right. Um, yes. Keeping in touch and heartfelt ways we’re thinking about you. We hope you’re well and safe. We we wish the same for your family. We just want you to know you’re important to

[00:45:16.75] spk_6:
us. Yeah, really are about

[00:45:19.62] spk_2:
sincerely. You know, that’s it. And that comes from Ah, gift officer doesn’t have to be a CEO board member letter and president.

[00:45:27.47] spk_6:
Consign it. I mean, maybe maybe the dean signs. Um no clothes in a picture of the dean right there. So you know, you make it personal and you don’t act it. I mean, in this day and age is easy. Send an email I’m and write it well, and you know,

[00:45:44.19] spk_3:
well, it can also it also come

[00:46:08.38] spk_2:
from a gift officer. That’s right. If you know if there’s a relationship that’s right. Relationship there. That’s right. Gift officers. Good. All right, Paul, we’re gonna wrap it up. Um, so any any parting thought? I mean, we had lots of good advice, sir. I’m not We’re not looking, toe, uh, take off all the advice that you provided. But what

[00:46:08.51] spk_3:
do you want? Do you

[00:46:09.09] spk_0:
want to

[00:46:09.28] spk_2:
leave people with Final

[00:46:57.49] spk_6:
Five? Don’t do too much mission drift. Um, uh, if you were doing arts funding, um, you might want to stick with that at this time. You know, um, both as a donor and as a foundation. Um uh, mission drift can take place at this time because there’s always, well, politically correct or exigencies that seem to be so important. You can’t who ate them, And I will just say, um uh, take care of your workers and avoid mission drift. So take care of your donors. Take care of your beneficiaries. Take care of yourselves. You know,

[00:47:03.62] spk_2:
and your employees as well.

[00:47:04.93] spk_6:
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Yeah, that’s real

[00:47:14.58] spk_2:
Pool service. Sh Professor emeritus at Boston College. Retired director there. Center on wealth and Philanthropy. You’ll find him at Paul Schervish s C h E R v I s H Paul. Thank you very much for sharing elder statesman. Thank you very much.

[00:47:23.70] spk_6:
My pleasure. Good job.

Nonprofit Radio for February 28, 2020: Get To The Next Level

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Sherry Quam Taylor: Get To The Next Level
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[00:00:13.74] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:00:21.63] spk_2:
profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host.

[00:00:23.19] spk_0:
We have a listener of the week Rusty Stall in Beacon, New

[00:01:47.40] spk_2:
York He went back and shared number show number 4 19 which is the encouragement show on Twitter. That one is from December 2018. Folks, you share, I shout out, Thank you very much, Rusty. Thanks for sharing the show. Glad you loved it. Congratulations on being this week’s listener of the week. Rusty Stall. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. You’d get slapped with a diagnosis of metastasized a phobia if you missed our fifth show in The Innovators. Siri’s get to the next level stop overlooking investment level, giving opportunities because you’re spending too much time on events and Facebook ads. Sherry Kwame Taylor walks through how to start your major giving program or how to find Tune and kick it up a notch. She’s a fundraising consultant and coach on Tony’s Take. Two planned giving relationship stories were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there. Complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot C e o so great for to our sponsors really appreciate them so much.

[00:01:51.94] spk_0:
What a pleasure

[00:02:14.80] spk_2:
to welcome. First time to the show Cherie Kwame Taylor. She teaches non profit leaders had a pivot from small dollar donations to securing larger investment level donations so they can finally fund their missions. She does this nationally through her private coaching and her 90 day Let’s Grow Fundraising accelerator. She’s at kwame taylor dot com And at Sherry.

[00:02:19.22] spk_0:
Cute Taylor. Welcome. Es que t?

[00:02:22.49] spk_5:
Hey, Tony, how are you today?

[00:02:23.96] spk_0:
I’m doing very well. Where you calling

[00:02:25.46] spk_2:
in? From Sherry Kwan Teller.

[00:02:27.11] spk_5:
I am in Chicago

[00:02:28.49] spk_2:
land. Chicago. Your home. Okay. Your home base. You’re in Chicago. Okay. I

[00:02:31.87] spk_5:
am right in the middle of the country. Where were you? Where It’s cold.

[00:02:35.53] spk_0:
Yeah, Chicagoans always bring that

[00:02:37.09] spk_2:
up. I don’t like the first thing they say in the winter.

[00:02:40.07] spk_5:
We’re really tired of it

[00:02:41.42] spk_2:
here in the end of February. Got

[00:02:43.11] spk_5:
a couple months ago.

[00:02:52.83] spk_2:
I just asked somebody the difference Where was he calling from? Ah, the difference. Is there a difference between 10 below and 20 below? Do you know that? Does that marginal? 10 degrees to make no difference.

[00:02:58.61] spk_5:
Not not to me not to let

[00:03:00.20] spk_2:
it go

[00:03:00.47] spk_5:
under under zero. It’s kind all the same.

[00:03:03.17] spk_2:
It’s also okay. Okay.

[00:03:05.34] spk_0:
Um, so you have Ah, You have a pretty

[00:03:17.94] spk_2:
interesting practice. An interesting niche. Just why I wanted you to be one of our innovators. Um, you’re helping organizations get going with individual and then and Major Given,

[00:03:25.33] spk_5:
Right? Right. Yeah. I mean, just like you, tony. I’m really focused on those groups who are under that Usually $1 million mark And I love working with

[00:03:33.29] spk_2:
Okay. There was a lot of chatter on LinkedIn, so lots of

[00:03:36.66] spk_0:
lots of women. I think I was the only guy

[00:03:38.11] spk_2:
who commented in here on your link with you. Do you have anything do you work with? Do you work with Male of fundraisers? Ideally, you will. I

[00:03:46.91] spk_5:
think I made about 50 50%

[00:03:54.87] spk_2:
representative of population. Okay, um, I was just interesting. I said I noticed we’ll get a chance to shout some of them out of shortly if if they’re listening, in fact. So

[00:04:00.53] spk_0:
where do you see

[00:04:08.44] spk_2:
people sticking? Like What? What’s what’s what’s the typical, um, scenario for someone who needs your help? Where are they that you’re trying to get them past?

[00:04:16.13] spk_5:
Yeah, great, great question. So typically the people

[00:04:19.20] spk_2:
I’m working with

[00:05:51.62] spk_5:
are you know, I work with a lot of founders who have started non profits. And so, you know, they’re absolute subject matter issues, subject matter experts at their mission. And they started the non profit, and they’ve had a great level of success have gotten it to a certain point. But then there’s becomes the sticking point. It’s like, Oh, this is this is getting harder and harder to fund and what we have a waiting list for our service is and or gosh, I’d love to hire my first staff person, but I don’t know how to scale this financially and so I mean the favorite. I mean, really, probably the favorite part about my work is working with mission experts and people who have raise your hands and said, Yeah, that is a problem, and I’m going to, you know, found a non profit to try to solve that, but they necessarily they probably haven’t ever needed to know how to do major major level gift cultivation. So they’ve never been taught how to do it. And until oftentimes I find that, um, they’re funding, maybe has plateau because they’ve been kind of trying all the thing with some successful some not. But I really don’t know how to move into a larger gifts and so usually to kind of profiles I work with. And one would be what I just described. And then I also work with a lot of groups who are over that $1,000,000 mark. Um, but maybe they have a tremendous amount of either program revenue or revenue from the government. And they haven’t really strengthen their charitable giving,

[00:05:53.25] spk_2:
you

[00:05:55.98] spk_5:
know, they’re not bringing in a that could be bringing it.

[00:06:50.94] spk_2:
Yeah, or now a lot of people who ask me the question, How do you get to the next level had a week. How do we get to next level? Are wedded to events? You know, I whether it’s a gala or it’s a run or it’s a bunch of smaller events, you know, and my concern there is that they’re they’re fearful of and and also have not been trained in, as you said, individual individual giving, that they’re not comfortable sitting across a kitchen table or a desk, and hopefully it’s in their office because I like to control the setting. But we’ll get to the details that and ask people for whether it’s $500 or $50,000. Whatever level you at your at and you believe they should be at, they’re not comfortable doing that. So they host these events because they never have. They just ask for tickets on gates and auction items, and there’s never a face to face. Would you consider a gift of $50,000 for the for the mission that I just described and to get us to where I just said We need to be?

[00:08:22.09] spk_5:
You’re speaking my language, tony. I mean, I see so often, um, that organizations Oh, we have five annual events or, um, you know, we just you know, the board says you write more grant proposals or let’s just try. You continue to try all the things and that that concept you just nailed it that that step by step plan into oh So you’re telling me I should be carrying in my my world a top 30 portfolio of donors and that top 30 actually should be bringing in between 50 and 75% of my revenue. And you actually want me to go sit down one on one and present to them, or you don’t have a relationship with them and ask them for money. Oh, I like that Could never do that. Like I hate asking people for money, right? I get that all day long, and and that’s really where? Why I see people stock and frankly, why, in my opinion, you know, 77% of nonprofits are under a $1,000,000 because that that fear is kind of holding the back of What would I say when I get in that meeting, right? Like what? Is that? What questions are they gonna ask me? And so I think that being open to saying If you don’t know how to do that, it’s time to invest in yourself

[00:08:23.66] spk_2:
to

[00:08:37.90] spk_5:
learn how to do that. Because that’s a way to protect fundraising. Then, um, you know, the events or the appeals are giving Tuesday, which are all fine things. But if the majority of your funding really should be coming in from your top 30 donors, why are you allocating all of your time and energy and budget into smaller gifts?

[00:09:17.62] spk_2:
Okay, we’re gonna get to our we’re gonna take our first break. And after that, well, we’re gonna get into the steps and answer a lot of those questions that you just rhetorically asked wegner-C.P.As so that your 9 90 gets filed on time so that your audit is finished on time so that you get the advice of an experienced partner. You know which doom? Just on the show last week. You know him and he’s been on before Aunt and his firm, wegner-C.P.As, that has a nationwide non profit practice with thousands of audits under their belt under their belt. They just were. Collectively, they just wear one belt. It’s a whole bunch of accountants, one belt wrapping, all of

[00:09:22.79] spk_3:
them on,

[00:09:32.52] spk_0:
and you get that expertise in the in their advice. Alright, wegner-C.P.As dot com. Let’s do the live love. Um, starting with that, I’m gonna start right here this time. You don’t do that. But New York, New York, we got multiple right here in New York,

[00:09:37.18] spk_2:
New York and moving out from the New York area got Falls Church,

[00:09:42.00] spk_0:
Virginia, Albuquerque, New Mexico. I love

[00:09:46.55] spk_2:
Albuquerque. I think I stayed at the The Albuquerque. The hotel Albuquerque. Is there such place? I love Al Albuquerque is a beautiful, beautiful city. Live love Out to Albuquerque and

[00:09:54.61] spk_0:
Tucson, Arizona, Fairfield, Connecticut, Tampa, Florida Barberton, Ohio. Um, yes. Live, love, live love

[00:10:34.74] spk_2:
to our domestic live listeners. Thank you for being with us and going abroad. Looks like Adana, Turkey, I hope. Adana, Turkey. I hope your family members are all safe attack in Syria just yesterday. Right? I hope your family is all safe. Tehran, Iran. Thank you for being with us. Checking in often. Tehran. You get to be regulars. Thank you. Appreciate that. Live love out there. Um, Belo Horizonte. Orders aren’t a Brazil. I love that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Obey God! Oh, for our Brazil listener and Seoul, South Korea, of course, Always checks in. So loyal

[00:10:44.54] spk_0:
annual Casio comes a ham Nida and also a Saudi Arabia. I think that’s a new one. Jetta Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Live love to each

[00:11:27.35] spk_2:
of our listeners abroad. Thank you for being with us on the podcast Pleasantries tour. Over 13,000 listeners in the time shift Pleasantries to you. I’m so glad that not profit radio fits into your life. Okay, let’s go back. Yes, Thio, get to the next level. All right, Sherry, you have you step by step. And if the host is any good at this show, which is always questionable, that seems after nine and 1/2 years. That’s still an open question. Then if he is, we’ll get to all the steps. So you want to start with the end in mind? Start with your endgame.

[00:11:44.24] spk_5:
Yeah, I d’oh! So you know, I might my challenge to people when I start working with them, as they say. Okay, so we’re gonna put a new cap on here or new lens on if you will. And that your investment level lens. And so if we’re gonna go prepare you to go start sitting down are forming relationships so you can eventually sit down with people

[00:11:51.25] spk_2:
and ask

[00:12:59.94] spk_5:
some first went for $25,000. We need to be We need to have a different type of lens on it. I if you saw me right now. I’d be doing this pivot with my body. But what I’m saying is I wanted to shift from Well, yeah, if we had the money. We do that. Yeah. If I had the money, I’d hire that person. If I had the money, I’d start that program. I want to shift that too. Here’s actually what our plans are. And here’s what we need this year. And so if you even think you know ahead to a solicitation and donor said so what do you need? And you hesitate and say, Well, you know what? We did this last year. We’d love to do this and we really hope we can vs. So glad you asked that we have an $800,000 need this year. And here’s what we’re going to dio and being Bing Bing, right? So it’s amazing That seems really simple, right? But that really that pivot from We gotta stop reacting to all the things and actually kind of push the pause button and put a proactive plan in place. Move from that scarcity to need model and move from trying to, you know, fundraise to everyone to really getting honed in on the top 30 donors.

[00:13:27.08] spk_2:
Okay, Now, at this step, we don’t We don’t have a particular donor in mind where we’re assessing our overall need for the year Or maybe maybe a two year plan or something like that. We’re just We’re focused on our our need. We’re not. We’re not focused on any individual donor yet. Or donors? Not yet. Because

[00:14:20.14] spk_5:
so often even budgets are sat. You know, sometimes how do you set your budget? Well, first we look at the money we have pledged. Well, hold on now. First, we need to look at what you need, right? And so what? We’re gonna talk about that step because budgeting is the key here. And so all of this tony is really rooted in me. My goal is to really help my clients learn how to leave their donors, every donor to giving their best guess and then helping them give that gift every year and getting them in a strong annual fund. And so I always say to people, if your donors best gift is $25 a month and that’s the best gift amazing, let’s provide the most amazing donor experience for that person. But if you’re if you’re, uh, donors, best gift is a $25,000 gift, and they’re only giving you five. We have some work to do, right? So if if all of our donors were giving their best guess, this would be a game changer

[00:14:24.44] spk_2:
How sorry. How are we gonna know what the best gift is for each of our top 30?

[00:15:00.24] spk_5:
Well, the first thing starts with relationship building and actually being comfortable talking about investment. And so oftentimes I find that we are so passionate about our missions way we know them obviously better than anybody. And so our conversations are a little bit like, Oh, here’s the crisis. Here’s the problem we’re solving And here’s what we d’oh on here some really great stories. And here’s some numbers of you know, this percentage of kids are doing this now and then It it kind of drops off like, Well, I think they’ll give because they really ask some great questions. And I know they have capacity, so we’ll see where that goes.

[00:15:37.21] spk_2:
Where where does a prospect research fit in? Do you? I’m a big advocate of gaining as much knowledge as I can about a person from the person themselves. And if you if you ask the right questions and if you’re a good listener, you’ll learn all about how many kids they have, what they what they do for a living or what they retired from where their vacation homes are. If they if they have them boats where they travel, whether they travel, you’ll learn a ton of things just from the person. But does thank you. Okay, but does does outside prospect research fit into your schema?

[00:16:28.74] spk_5:
Yeah, sometimes, like here’s the thing. What I find tony is I find that typically, and that kind of that model non profit where we started at the top of the hour. I actually find that many times they have donors who are sitting right around them, and a lot of times it’s they aren’t giving their best gift because A. They haven’t really known what the organization needed, because either they didn’t know how to share that, where they don’t know what they need or B they’ve never been asked, and so totally groovy. Oh, this is the slow game when we’re starting, when we’re getting to know our donors, why they’re giving why they value giving tow us, knowing every single thing and just having a relationship with him, right?

[00:16:32.37] spk_2:
Yeah, because Because the first meeting is not the ask.

[00:16:34.61] spk_5:
No, no,

[00:16:36.31] spk_2:
make that. Let’s make that explicit. Yeah,

[00:16:47.44] spk_5:
Yeah, I literally just had a client or a board member of a client. Say so. You mean to tell me we’re not asking in this meeting? I think it’s the first meeting you didn’t propose to your spouse on the first date,

[00:16:50.75] spk_2:
right? Good analogy. Yeah.

[00:17:07.88] spk_5:
Yeah. So, um, so it’s a slow game, But I would also say there’s just Yes, of course. I want, you know, people, you know, doing prospect research and, you know, running reports and doing due diligence. But I would also say Don’t forget that we can go talk to them

[00:17:09.30] spk_2:
and we can

[00:17:26.72] spk_5:
go for a relationship with them and share what we need, because they time and time again, I have clients moved five figure gifts to six figure gifts. I’ve sat in these solicitations and heard their donors say I didn’t know you needed that. What have you never asked? I mean, so great. But also Oh, my goodness.

[00:17:43.75] spk_2:
Subsumed in something you just said is Don’t let the lack of information keep you from that solicitation that that asked. You know, if you feel like I don’t know quite enough, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know what you know. You’re never gonna know everything. So you get a much as you can have those preliminary meetings. Maybe somebody on the board knows the person. Or maybe not. But, you know, but don’t let the ah lack of some some little bit. I never found out where they have Children or not, or whether how old their Children are. Don’t let that stop you from going ahead with your ask

[00:18:06.98] spk_5:
your right.

[00:18:07.60] spk_2:
Otherwise, you’ll you’ll spin

[00:18:12.79] spk_5:
your spin. Until this concept, Like what you said, Um, I want you sitting down one on one with your top 30 donors,

[00:18:17.17] spk_2:
but

[00:18:35.66] spk_5:
more than that and asking them. And every time I speak, I always have somebody raise your hand and say, Can I e mail him, you know, like not rarely, right or the other thing is yet I’ll say, Do you Do you do one on one ass? Yeah, we do. We have We’ve got a couple of in string here and we ask that our event. That’s not what I’m talking about. Totally different. Totally different angle here.

[00:18:39.84] spk_2:
Right? Thank you. Okay. And you also mentioned I don’t put a put an exclamation after it. Let’s get out of the scarcity mentality. You said that you said it explicitly. I’m I’m reiterating what you already said. We got it. We got to get out of this. I can’t afford that. I can’t afford the first employee. Uh, that’s part of your That’s part of where

[00:18:59.32] spk_0:
you want to be. I want to hire our first employee.

[00:19:01.01] spk_2:
This? What are we already have a staff of four. I want to hire our first director of development this year. And that’s gonna be ah, $75,000 position. And when I add benefits, it’s gonna

[00:19:10.18] spk_0:
be $100,000 position. That’s what we need.

[00:19:15.39] spk_2:
You know? It’s okay if you saw me. You said earlier if we saw you, you’d be pivoting around. You saw me. I’d be flailing my arms around

[00:19:20.35] spk_5:
sitting up in your care.

[00:19:23.74] spk_2:
Oh, yeah, I’m propped up my aunt. My arms are flailing.

[00:20:00.40] spk_5:
Your leave led me right into step to hear track each other. Um, so I mean, step like, so it’s really moving into. Okay. So, Cherie, you’re telling me I need to go sit down with these people? I need thio eventually. When I feel like the time is right. You want me to ask them for money and sit down and do that? So, you know, often the next step is So what am I saying to them, Right? And so in my world, I always say, there’s there’s three things that really have to be clear in a donor’s mind before they’re going to give you that investment level gift. So obviously one of those being planned, like, what are you doing?

[00:20:02.51] spk_2:
Yeah, we just talked about that. All right? Yeah. And then,

[00:20:14.09] spk_5:
uh, and also, like, I’ll send your strategic plan and whether you have the 40 page binder on the shelf or it’s in a napkin sketch, You know, your donors have to know what your plans are. What are you doing this year so that you can do this next year? Because in five years were kind of thinking this right. Like,

[00:20:21.99] spk_2:
you

[00:21:02.02] spk_5:
have to be talking about your plan in that annual rhythm to get your donors in that annual fund mentality. Right? So you gotta know your plan. You gotta be able to talk like that. So that’s kind of the planning of it, obviously. I mean, we don’t have to spend some time on this, but your programs, what do you do? And I think probably the biggest hang up I see in the Syria would be donors not totally understanding what you do. It kinda have an idea. And then oftentimes, uh, you know, the confusion comes with Well, we do this and this and this and this and this, and we list the activities that we d’oh. We don’t really talk about them in more of an outcome manner or in a in that programmatic structure that really helps him understand how holistically our programs fit together to actually be solving.

[00:21:21.04] spk_2:
And Sherry, if if this is an existing donor, let’s say and you’re trying to get them to the next level, you know, look at what they’ve been funding in the past because that’s if if they have a specific program, maybe it’s unrestricted. In which case we’re grateful for, of course, for general support too. But if there is something that they’ve designated they’re giving to in the past. Uh, focus on that. You know that. Focus on that part of your your plan and your need You need

[00:21:45.93] spk_5:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so it’s always a balance of I want to feed the donor’s interest, right? Like, oh, they’re really, really excited about our scholarship program. Okay, great. We want to know that. But our job also is a leader is to say, OK, how wonderful. You know, we’re investing $300,000 in our scholarship program this year. Our organization has an $800,000 need, right? Like I want them to know the whole need

[00:22:07.03] spk_2:
of organization, but

[00:23:34.04] spk_5:
they’re super passionate about a program, you know, that’s what we’re gonna feed. Right? Um, So there’s there’s the donors who Really? Yeah, they understand. We do. They volunteer for us. They’re deep in this with us. They’re really stakeholders. Um, you know, I have some while those funny stories of donors who were giving to organizations who asked off the wall questions like, How do you guys were doing this, right? So there’s some clarity that needs to happen. There is, um, it might be that we’re speaking in acronyms are, you know, kind of speaking in our jargon because we’re so intimate with our industry. But how can we How can we talk about what we do in a way that really helps the donor see the impact that a gift could have on the lives that were serving? Um, Okay, So I said three things have to be clear so that there obviously their plans in the programs and the 3rd 1 which is maybe my favorite thing to talk about tony is the financial need. What do you need financially? And so every single time I talked to, uh, somebody new, I always say, I got to be honest. It’s a little bit of a test. Um, I say so. So what? What? Your what? Your financial need this year, I’m kind of asking, what’s your budget? And 9.5 times out of 10 I get. Well, last year we did about 6 80 And so we I mean, we hope we could do that. I don’t know, maybe 7 20 You know, in essence, a little our need is a little bit more than last year

[00:23:38.91] spk_2:
right there, but they’re Basically, they’re constraining it based on what they did last year versus what would be what? What would get the organization again to the next level. Or, you know what, really what I really need to do or want, want or need to do not just constrained and tied to what they did last year,

[00:23:59.18] spk_5:
right? Right. So I kind of called.

[00:24:00.68] spk_2:
It’s like an anchor dragging you down what you did last year. What

[00:24:04.09] spk_0:
do you want to do this year? What do you need to do this year?

[00:24:08.15] spk_5:
Yeah, yeah. You know, you’re gonna come to meetings with me, tony. So I call that

[00:24:11.75] spk_2:
I don’t think you can afford me. I’m sorry.

[00:24:16.23] spk_5:
Okay. Never mind that. I kind of call that like, Okay, so that’s your more of your squeak by budget. Look, you’ve got to get that number,

[00:24:22.02] spk_2:
But

[00:24:33.91] spk_5:
then, you know, when I dig a little bit, I’ll say OK, so So you need, you know, a 20 in my example. I guess so. What’s not in that number, you know, And when I start digging a little bit, it always happens. Okay. So, um, are you are you paid by the organization? Well, you know I was approved to take the 70

[00:24:40.71] spk_2:
$1000 salary, but

[00:24:41.81] spk_5:
I’ve only been taking a 20

[00:24:42.92] spk_2:
five or

[00:25:06.64] spk_5:
I we have a waiting list, but we don’t have enough er staff or, um, you know, do you have a reserve fund? Well, no. You know where it ebbs and flows, you know? Are you investing in technology? Are you? You know anything? So my point of this is you have got to create a riel. Need space budget to grow.

[00:25:11.44] spk_2:
No,

[00:25:12.12] spk_5:
this cannot desist. Moving from reactive to proactive.

[00:25:15.45] spk_2:
This is

[00:25:20.28] spk_5:
the biggest thing. If there’s a takeaway from anybody today, it’s budgeting. And sometimes I laugh. I don’t know. I talk about budgeting all day long, and I don’t know how I how this came to be, but your budget is your plan for the year.

[00:25:28.87] spk_2:
Andi. So, Daddy, and put

[00:25:30.90] spk_5:
those things in.

[00:25:32.10] spk_2:
Yes, what? Your deeds are what you what you aspire to. And don’t be anchored by what you did

[00:25:36.53] spk_0:
last year

[00:25:37.07] spk_2:
or the year before.

[00:25:38.10] spk_0:
That’s dragging you down. That’s that’s, you know, 10% 15

[00:25:53.97] spk_2:
percent growth, thinking you’ll reach your reach a $1,000,000 in revenue in 15 years. That wave incrementally 10% of 10% growth from year to year of your starting its 6 80 or something. What? How

[00:25:54.94] spk_0:
did you know? Think big.

[00:25:57.47] spk_2:
But in terms of staff and programs and, um, and needs, you know, how

[00:26:03.42] spk_0:
do you get where do you want to be?

[00:26:30.60] spk_5:
And I think this is why this is hard. But this is, like, such a sticking point. This is what I’ve kind of come toe watch with my clients because it’s actually like a really fun and clarifying exercise. Thio, get them to kind of watch them pivot into. I could do that. Yeah, well, let’s put it all in and see what the number is. I’m not talking crazy. I’m not telling you to jump from 600 K to 1.2. But what I’m saying is, if you do not say you know what, You’re right. We have even $850,000 need this year.

[00:26:36.14] spk_2:
Like,

[00:26:43.71] spk_5:
if you do not do that, how will you put a development plan in place to actually hit that? Because if you’re putting a development plan in place to,

[00:26:45.68] spk_2:
you know,

[00:26:51.69] spk_5:
way back down toe, maybe hit the 6 80 you will never hit it. And so I’m a big believer in Okay, fine. We have an $850,000 need. I’m looking around the table, right. I want that to roll off everybody’s tongue. And now we’re gonna put a plan in place on how we’re gonna bring that in

[00:27:03.20] spk_2:
because,

[00:27:12.70] spk_5:
you know, oftentimes way find we’re spending tons of time kind of on the expense side of our budget, right? Just every nook and cranny of every expense. But then we aren’t spending the same amount of time saying, OK, so how

[00:27:19.32] spk_0:
are we

[00:27:56.69] spk_5:
gonna bring in the 8 50 and let’s go back to where we started? It’s 50 to 75% of our revenue should come in from our top three donors. We sure as heck should start there. Right? And so I’m a really big believer in using your budget month to month of another little tip. So many people I work with, they haven’t looked at their budget month to month. Here’s what I’m bringing in this month. Here’s what we’re spending this month. It’s more looked at often as more of an annual basis. How do you know what to do in June if you need to bring 50 k n and you gonna spend 47 K. Okay. Well, how do we know what to do then? If we aren’t looking at it month by month?

[00:28:02.64] spk_3:
Okay, um,

[00:28:03.28] spk_5:
budgeting is huge in this huge, huge, huge.

[00:28:12.18] spk_2:
All right, we’re gonna take our our second break. Um, And since you’re, uh, fundraising professional, you’re gonna appreciate time versus goal. We’re halfway through the show, and we’ve only done two of your seven steps, so

[00:28:20.93] spk_5:
they get faster.

[00:28:21.95] spk_2:
Okay? Okay. I told you the host is lackluster at best. On a good day. Lackluster. That

[00:28:28.54] spk_5:
was my longest

[00:29:06.64] spk_2:
time versus goal. All right, take this break. Cookie Mountain Software, Their accounting product, Denali is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need as a non profit and the exemplary support that understands how you work. You’ve heard me talk about that For the testimonials about the support. They have a free 60 day trial. It’s on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now it’s time for Tony’s take two plan giving relationship stories. In my previous video, I talked about playing, giving relationship stories, and

[00:29:06.80] spk_0:
I left out the relationships. How do you talk about relationship

[00:29:09.12] spk_2:
if you don’t include the people I talked about, how they get started and the value of these plan giving long term relationships to your organization. And

[00:29:16.68] spk_0:
then I didn’t tell any relationship stories. How could you see Lackluster at on a good

[00:30:05.02] spk_2:
day? So, uh, plenty of relationships. Stories has four lovely stories, and there’s scores of them that I’m sure I could come up with if I put my mind to it. But these four or top of mind, um, and I tell some very touching stories about the plan giving relationships that the part of planned giving that I love the most those relationships. So those stories are on the video at tony-martignetti dot com, and that is Tony’s Take two. Now back to get to the next level with Sherry Kwan Taylor. She’s a private coach and runs a 90 day fundraising accelerator. Our Sherri, we’re getting to the donors now. We’re gonna start identifying our top 30 donors. We are suppose we’re a small organization. Can we Can we do this with 10 or 15 top donors. Absolutely. Okay,

[00:32:48.54] spk_5:
absolutely. Usually, people are like, Hey, Cheri, I love that you’re talking about top 30 donors, but I’ve got a solid nine, you know, it’s okay. It’s okay. We’re gonna start with nine, and then we’re gonna find the other ones, right? So I would say, like moving into this yet. Let’s talk. Let’s talk about our donors here. So, you know, we have those three things were our plans, our programs, our need. So now, especially with our top 30 now, we need to serve our donors. We need to make sure there’s clarity in those areas and tie it to why they would get why they value giving to the organization. And so my what I want people to hear today is you actually have way more control of the timing of the gift and the size of the gift than you think. And here’s what I mean, but I mean is you have got to craft and create great donor experiences for your top 30 donors, and I’m talking as far as saying okay, so let’s use our example. I always use Tom. And so, um, you know Tom and sue. They always male in a check of Thanksgiving. Yeah, I don’t know. They just always male in that $10,000 check. They must have a family meeting and mail it in. So I say, Well, hold on a second. Uh, we’ve done a little research on Tom and Sue, and they are giving $25,000 to the theater down the road, right? And so how do we How do we It’s It’s January right now. What do we need to dio? But two in January and November to raise their gifts, right? And so I am a believer, and we need to plan that out, and we’re gonna be flexible about it, too. But my goal would be great. So I actually want to get in front of that gift this year. And I want to make sure that I have done everything in my power to lead them to the point where we’re sitting down in October. And I’m having a really healthy, wonderful investment level discussion with them before they just mail in that gift of Thanksgiving, right? And so I want us looking at each one of our 30 donor relations donors and charting out what those steps are going to be and managing those. Because again, this could be 75% of your revenue. And so it is a lot of work. You will never hear the words come out of my mouth. Fundraising is easy because it is discipline. And it is someone waking up every morning and saying, Okay, I gotta push this bar here. I gotta push this here. I gotta move this over here and move this. It takes a lot of time. Um, so this But this is this is how you will grow. This is how you will move into investment level, gets by serving your donors in such an intimate way.

[00:32:57.24] spk_2:
Now, this will also work with Tom and Sam Couples, right?

[00:33:00.73] spk_5:
Yes, of course.

[00:33:01.96] spk_2:
Or Terry and Sue. Okay. We’ll work with it with anybody. Not strictly a hetero plan.

[00:33:07.31] spk_5:
Thank you. Thank

[00:33:08.20] spk_2:
you for pointing that out.

[00:33:19.96] spk_5:
And I’d also say, you know, sometimes people Oh, do you Do you also work with foundations or do you work with corporations or sponsorships? Um I mean, I focus on individual giving, but I would I’d say to you is I will tell you. He’s obviously these warm, wonderful relationship building experiences. It trickles down to every relationship that you should be having with a corporation who’s sponsoring something or, ah, family foundation. And so I’ve actually seen when people have gone through my program and really try to grow their individual giving that it actually has greatly impacted how how they’re approaching their events and how they’re approaching foundations and corporations. Because, um, it’s really all about creating and serving our donors in that way. So I can I’m happy to talk to some of those steps if you if you would like to dig in deeper.

[00:34:47.69] spk_2:
Yeah, well, let’s stick with our individuals of the individual donor side. So, you know, I should have also reminded our live listeners that if you want to join the conversation, uh, hit us up on Twitter, use the hashtag non profit radio hashtag non profit radio on Twitter. If you want to ask you a question or it seemed like there might be ah ah particularly motivated live listener crowd today. So if you want to join in, use that hashtag non profit radio on Twitter, please. That’s that’s what we’re checking and we’re watching it in the studio. So basically, you’re saying you need a cultivation and solicitation plan for each of your top donors. However many there are. You’re saying from between January and October, how are we going to get this couple, uh, in a face to face so that we can explain our need and hopefully raise their race? What is typically they’re you know, they’re November gift. We need a player. We need. We gotta be strategic. We need a plan for each of our donors.

[00:35:20.69] spk_5:
We need a plan and we have to allocate back to that. And we have to allocate your time towards that. It can’t just be the planet has to be really pivoting kind of thing. I’m gonna stop doing that one campaign that yields $4200 every year on Facebook because, frankly, that’s one donor that’s a $5000 donor. So again, don’t hear me say, don’t do Facebook campaigns. I want to do them, but not at the risk that you haven’t started or launched her your individual gift program.

[00:36:21.30] spk_2:
Yeah. Look, look carefully. Look carefully at events that maybe you’re hosting do eyes there. Is there a lackluster event that on this world lackluster today. But good work, eyes. They’re a lackluster event. You know, maybe maybe you don’t even like doing it. But there’s a board member or that loves this event. You know, you need to get around that you need Thio stopped with these activities that are dragging you down and are not as productive show. You’re absolutely right. A 42 100 event. That’s 1 $5000 donor. And in a year, it might be a year after that. It might be a 75 $110,000 donor, and your event isn’t going to scale that way, But individuals will so look strategically at all the things you’re doing. Not just the events, but I keep harping on those that if there is, there’s something unproductive. Put it into this individual giving plan. Yes. Oh, absolutely. But you gotta have cultivation station planned strategy for each donor, and then you gotta work it. You gotta work it. I gotta devote resources to it.

[00:37:02.23] spk_5:
Yeah, and I can I tell you the most important thing on this cultivation plan. Um, let’s say we’ve asked. You didn’t Awesome. High five. They made a decision. They said Yes. Amazing. Okay, so, you know, you heard me say, at the top of the hour, I want them giving their best gift. And I want them giving that gift every year. So after the gift, what do we D’oh! Right. I’m talking thinking my number one rule in thanking is exceed expectations. If that donor says to you, Sure. You didn’t need to do that. That was perfect,

[00:37:05.43] spk_2:
because

[00:38:10.24] spk_5:
I didn’t need to do that. How do we get our donors in an annual fund mentality? Bye. Thank you. Them? How do we get them back in the path, right? If you’re kind of thinking of this line of like, I’m gonna drive them down this line every year. I got to get him way back to the front of line and drive him down again. It’s done through thanking. And so a little tipple gives people who are listening. Oftentimes, it could be a simple of this because all of my clients say Okay, they gave, but like, I don’t know, it’s six months pass, and I don’t know what my excuses to go talk to him again, Right? Well, say, here’s what you should have done. Or here’s what you could do when they give a guest. You know, I’ll thank them. I’ll have it toned Exactly what they value have it tone to our relationship we have with them. We know what they’re interested in. And then there’s this line. I’ll put it the end. And I’ll say, Hey, um, I’m not hey, but, uh, I make it. I make it a policy to report back to people in in 90 days on just the impact that your gift is having on the lives of those we serve all be in touch. What did I just do? I just told him I was calling him in 90 days. Then I’m gonna stop in and tell him what your gift is doing. And I just got back on the path for next year.

[00:38:16.22] spk_2:
That’s excellent.

[00:38:29.55] spk_5:
Yeah, when I say you have more control of the size of the timing, you have more control. You know, when you’re really leading the donor. So hold that. Hold that. Hold that control. Like you know, I love that question. Tony, I’m gonna research that and I will circle back with you next month when I felt when I figure that out or no one’s ever asked me that. But I’m certainly gonna look that up. I’ll shoot. You knew that Back on what I find. Tell him what you’re gonna do next. Hold the control. A huge part of leading your donors through great experiences in getting them in that annual rhythm that we meet all of our donors giving it.

[00:38:52.78] spk_2:
I’m not satisfied with just one thanking tip. I need another tip from Sherri Quinn Taylor. So what’s another insider pro tip for for thanking and exceeding expectations

[00:39:53.71] spk_5:
yet So sometimes sometimes I’ll say things like, um, you know, our question I get often is, you know, what about the donor who says they’re too busy to meet with me? This is I get this all the time. Um, here’s what’s been working for my clients, you know that. Let’s kind of play this out. It’s that, you know, kind of business person. CFO, Super busy. Doesn’t have enough time running around dragon, but we want to get in front of him, right? So I’ll try to mix it up a little bit. I’ll try to do things like, Hey, Chris, um, I wanted just to stop it and share with you and just share something with you on about what your gift is doing. I’m so busy. You know what? Totally cool. I’m gonna be near your office. Do you come in early? Great. Why don’t I just buy you a cup of coffee in the corner? I’ll take 20 minutes of your time before your work day, and we’ll just chap priestly and then keep it to 20 minutes.

[00:39:55.57] spk_2:
Oh,

[00:40:19.11] spk_5:
I do the same thing at lunch. Do you take a quick lunch hour? I’m happy to be on your door stop. And just to share this with you. Because here’s the thing. I think they’re avoiding us sometimes because it’s like, Oh, my goodness, it’s going to be an hour and 1/2 lunch and I’m the busiest person on the planet. And what are they? Are they gonna ask me again? Sometimes I’ll say even say to them Hey, not asking you for a thing, but it’s really important for us to share with you what your gift is doing. So make it easy for the donor to have a meeting with you. Tell him it’s 20 minutes and gets what stick to it.

[00:40:42.02] spk_2:
Sure, timer. Thank you. Thank you. We need to keep. We need to keep moving. My heart is racing time against goal. So, uh, Okay, we’ve got our 30. We’ve got our however many it is. We’ve got our cultivation. So station plan. Let’s do this one briefly before the next break, which is about a man and 1/2. What do we need to have in hand for a solicitation?

[00:41:58.89] spk_5:
So here’s my biggest tip. Oftentimes when we don’t know how to pivot into a financial conversations were talking mission. We’re talking story all heart. I will often say, Hey, get a really casual, but I I used I call it a conversation prompt. Put it on your iPad. Just a few exhibit nothing with 100 words on it. A few exhibits that actually prompts you to start moving into a few slides that talk about how you’re growing, show how you’re funded, show your program and been fundraising percentage. Because if you have something really easy breezy that you’re just using in a conversation that is such a nice tool used to pivot into what I will call investment level conversations because I find that that like? Okay, we’re talking about this wonderful story about, you know, this family who was homeless, and now they’re not how I pivot into a money conversation. So sometimes you need tools on hand that actually are just a helper and kind of a crutch to you in the conversation that move you into an investment. Little conversation. So when the time’s right, you can say, Could I share with you how we’re planning to grow this year? I love your feedback on this. And to be able to talk a little

[00:42:04.86] spk_2:
bit through these tools are a couple. So these tools are a couple of slides that lead to the conversation. And what out? What else you got? You gotta be gotta be brief.

[00:42:11.80] spk_5:
Yeah. Leave it breezy and on an iPad. Nothing. Nothing like this is not a presentation. It’s a

[00:42:16.57] spk_2:
conversation. I’d

[00:42:18.08] spk_5:
like to use a gift chart. I have all my clients using give charge, and it’s how they’re raising their four figures to five figures and five figures. Six.

[00:42:30.30] spk_2:
This is the gift pyramid that is ubiquitous. Is that what you mean about your chart? Okay. All right. So what? The bottom it says we have our $50 gift and we need 1000 of those or whatever. And then we have our 50 to $250 gifts and we need 700 of those that set or however your top

[00:42:44.70] spk_5:
30 focused on

[00:43:44.99] spk_2:
your top 30 gift. Oh, thank Top 30 gift chart. Okay, I gotta take this last break turn to communications their former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists so that your call gets answered when there’s news that you need to comment on so that you stay relevant in your work you want to. You want to be heard from journalists. You gotta build a relationship. What is sharing wegner, Sherry and I talking about relationships? You build them when you don’t need them, so that when the breaking news happens and you want to comment, it’s more likely than not that they’ll pick up the phone when it’s you. Turn two can help you build those journalists relationships. They’re a turn hyphen to dot CEO. We’ve got butt loads more time for get to the next level. I say that, but I’m hesitant, but I don’t want shared commonality thinking we got 25 more minutes, so I’m I’m watching the clock for you.

[00:43:47.70] spk_5:
Thank you.

[00:43:49.84] spk_3:
It’s my job.

[00:43:51.40] spk_5:
Quickly, Quick, quick.

[00:43:52.27] spk_2:
All right. So, um, what’s next? After that, we know what we’ve got. We’re prepared for Russell Station. We’ve got our gift chart we’ve got are a couple of slides. Not a lot. What’s next?

[00:45:29.49] spk_5:
Yes. So now I wanna I wanna push back or I want to go back to this concept, which is this Step five. Because what happens if you are the person who Okay, well, I have nine, but I gotta find the rest of them, right. So in addition to what we just talked about, the next step is, But hold on. I need to find 10 times as many donors, right? I need to be moving into more strategic conversations. So my my my step here would be, Let’s also have a dual strategy running on the side where, um we are also sharing our plans, our programs in our need, with those in the community who are our networkers. There are most connected individuals. And so I cannot if you’re a person who’s trying to level up and trying to really move into mid major level gift activities. I cannot stress enough how much of an educator you need to be to anybody who will listen to you, right. And so sometimes when, um, I’ll say. But I don’t I don’t know anybody who who does who gives major guests. Let’s say that’s fine. Who is the most connected person in the community? You know, who is that person you call when your friend needs a job? That’s why I want you to go talk to, and then they a first they’re gonna be like, Oh, my cash, because this is amazing. I didn’t know you guys were 850. Does our organization. That’s fantastic, eh? You’ve raised their sights, right? So maybe they will become a donor. Right? But then the next step is No. Hey, hey, Chris. I know. I’m sure this was today. Who are two people in your world who would really be interested what I share with you today and who might have the ability to invest at the level that I’ve shared with you, Right? So I want to make sure you are running a solid donor pipeline strategy right along the prospect strategy.

[00:45:48.51] spk_2:
What’s the board’s role. What’s the board’s role in helping build the pipeline?

[00:46:03.83] spk_5:
That’s my next step here, so but I’ll go right into it here, tony. So this is where the board is. This is where it’s key for the board, right? And so I have some specific board advice. But, um, often times it’s a board member who says, Oh, I don’t know. Maybe I don’t have any large donors in my network. I don’t say I don’t believe that Everybody does. We just may not know it. It’s also not a big deal. I just need to talk to your connectors. Then I’m

[00:46:17.62] spk_2:
not gonna

[00:47:40.53] spk_5:
ask them for money. So great. So let’s talk about who are the people in your world who are those movers and shakers and know everybody in the community. And so my my approach with the board and I’m gonna give some advice here, too. A lot of people will come to me in there, excuse for why they are the reason I should excuse. A reason for why they haven’t grown is well. My board doesn’t know they’re supposed to fundraise or I don’t have the right board members on on hand and hear me say I want your board to be engaged and thoughtful and you know, in the pocket with you and helping you do all of this fundraising. Ay dio and I work with that work with toward that all day long. But I’d also say to the executive director or development director who’s listening, Don’t wait on your board. Don’t sit back and you’re I don’t know. I don’t have any major guest because I’m waiting for my board to bring names to the table. You know, you still have to be carrying a great amount of the load, and I wish it weren’t that way. But it’s the truth. And so my biggest device and getting the board engaged, you know, 20. We talked about creating great donor experiences. If you have a board who’s kind of like I don’t I don’t I don’t know how I would introduce you. I don’t know what this looks like. You know, many board members, most most board members, I have never had to sit down and ask somebody for $25,000. They don’t know how to do it,

[00:47:41.75] spk_2:
right? So what do we do?

[00:48:28.47] spk_5:
So model it. I would say, I want I want you soliciting each one of your board members every year. And I want you to create a donor experience cultivation plan for each board member and show them how it’s done. Serve each one of your board members so they can see it. Because when you do this, it will be amazing. Still safe. Oh, well, okay, so that’s like I didn’t I didn’t know that’s what you were going to. D’oh! And so they’re not introducing you to their network because they’re afraid you’re gonna walk in and it’s gonna be a stick up high. Give me $10,000 so you have to model it to them. And when they see that, you actually served that you’ve created this warm and wonderful donor experience. And actually, the solicitation wasn’t that painful and scary all the sudden It’s like, Oh, okay, well, that actually is really well done. You know, maybe I can introduce you to my network, So model it for them because they don’t know how to do it either.

[00:48:42.67] spk_2:
Yeah, they don’t know what it is you’re asking. They just have an image. Imagine somebody

[00:48:43.95] spk_5:
had scary things happened before they don’t want those happen again,

[00:48:46.39] spk_2:
right? Some of your top prospects, maybe board members.

[00:48:49.27] spk_5:
Yes,

[00:48:50.17] spk_2:
of course. I mean, that’s not that’s not presume that they’re mutually exclusive. All right, all right. You wanna make explicit? Okay?

[00:48:57.21] spk_5:
Absolutely. And we want we want to be getting their their best.

[00:49:01.32] spk_2:
I like your idea of if you don’t know anybody who’s ah, potential major donor, who’s who with connectors that you know. Who do you go to when you want to get your child an internship? You know, let’s introduce me, those people, because they’re the They’re the influencers in the community. Okay, what’s next?

[00:49:19.44] spk_5:
Yeah, so here we were. Really? I’m We’re at the left. Step here.

[00:49:23.08] spk_2:
Solicitation. Solicitation.

[00:49:41.06] spk_5:
Here’s Here’s the big thing. So So yeah. So we’re soliciting. I know. I want us moving into solicitations. Um, here’s the thing. Using a gift chart really does help, you know, because I want us to be able to invite them into investing, And we might say things like, You know, I don’t know if you can, but I loved it. Invite you to be one of our top three donors are our top 10 donors.

[00:49:49.32] spk_0:
What do you do I? I got

[00:49:50.27] spk_2:
a I got a question out of the box of that. You’re pointing to the gift chart, and you’re pointing up near the top are at the top, and they say, I’m I’m down here.

[00:50:52.92] spk_5:
That’s okay. That’s okay. So let’s pretend it’s somebody who we have No clue, but we actually don’t know they’re given capacity, so we might be having a very exploratory conversations. You know, Chris, I don’t I don’t know if you can, but I’d love to invite you to be one of our top 30 donors, you know, until the bottom box might be five k. And then my biggest advice, tony, is be quiet. Let them talk, right? Like we don’t have to fill the silence. They’re going to say something like, Oh, yeah, yeah. Certainly could do that. Yeah, well, let me let me talk to my spouse, and we certainly could do that. Or if they say I don’t I don’t know if I’m gonna be the top 30. You know, I certainly could, you know, maybe think about it, but that would be that would be one of our largest guests. That is wonderful information to know and we’re not asking. We’re offering way. Don’t know if they can, but we’d love to invite them to be. They are a donor who’s been giving maybe every year, every year. 555

[00:50:54.70] spk_2:
You

[00:51:21.42] spk_5:
know, I may have a line at that Top 10 and maybe the top 10 is a 75 $100 gift. And I’ll say you’ve been giving so faithfully like we’re so thankful. All these things. No, I don’t know if you can, but would you would you think about being a top 10 donor, Right? So we’ve just asked them to up their gift until my point of all of this is, you can move into a conversation about the gift. No, it doesn’t. It’s not a scary thing.

[00:51:22.36] spk_2:
And it’s

[00:51:22.79] spk_5:
okay if they say it

[00:51:24.08] spk_2:
shouldn’t be.

[00:51:24.56] spk_5:
That could do that yet,

[00:51:52.00] spk_2:
right? Don’t be afraid to talk about the talk about the gift, right? That’s what that’s work. That’s why we’re there, just they say x and you say, Oh, thank you so much. No, no, that, you know, I say six knows and you’re halfway to a Yes. So, you know, keep the conversation going. No, I couldn’t possibly Well, uh, there’s the future, and there’s the need. And, you know, don’t don’t. This is what I could do. Okay. Thank you. You sold yourself out.

[00:51:55.96] spk_5:
Yeah, totally. And here’s one, and I’m watching the clock here to tony. But, like, here’s one that’ll give people. You know, sometimes you’re

[00:52:02.94] spk_2:
so time conscious, Sherry. Okay. Don’t. She’s content. Geez,

[00:52:06.76] spk_5:
now I’m watching

[00:52:08.30] spk_2:
you going, listeners,

[00:52:34.53] spk_5:
you’re asking. I got to get this kid knows I’m like, I gotta say this, Um, if you just asked and they’re not ready to give you a yes or no. Here’s my remember I said, I want you to leave your donors and hold that control. The worst thing you could D’oh. Sometimes with my early Astor’s, I’ll say, Oh, my gosh, You asked. Fantastic. Congratulations. How’d you leave it with? Um they said they’d get back to me, right? Oh, no. The worst thing ever, because it’s like you

[00:52:39.02] spk_2:
by the balls. You said you said earlier. Use your power. You know, you want to be that you want to be following up, not waiting for them,

[00:52:45.29] spk_5:
right? Make sure you’ve said you know what? Totally fine. Let’s look here and I kind of pretending to pick up my phone. Um, you know, are you in town in two, maybe two Fridays? Yeah, the 17. Great. I’ll reach out to you the morning of 17 C. Look, questions. You have to see if you’ve made a decision. We’ll have another conversation about it, Right? What did I just do? It picked up the control against

[00:53:05.79] spk_2:
exactly

[00:53:12.25] spk_5:
so often. It’s like I asked, I shared. I just didn’t hear from him. We didn’t hold the control. Super. Super important?

[00:53:36.95] spk_2:
Absolutely. Yeah. Yes, you need to. It’s a relationship, but it’s not 100% mutual. You need to You need to keep your control. Absolutely. You need thio because that’s the progress. You know, you need to move this relationship along your earlier relationship, your earlier hypothetical relationship, but, uh, tomans, whoever they were, the hetero company. You know

[00:53:40.01] spk_0:
you have this, Angela, you got to get to this couple. You gotta talk to

[00:53:46.64] spk_2:
these people and move them. And not just once, probably before they make their gift in November. So things need to move along. You can’t rely on other people too, to manage the timetable for you because it doesn’t matter to them. It

[00:53:56.88] spk_0:
matters to you.

[00:54:04.31] spk_2:
These are your needs. You gotta absolutely. You got to keep the control, the power out where you want to define it. Label it. You gotta move the thing along the relationship along.

[00:54:49.51] spk_5:
Yeah, and part of the last step is really you know. Okay, so this this always good planning and we have our tools in hand and we’re ready to do this. But at the end of the day, most fund raising an issue fail When? When the time is not allocated to do this. So even if your top 10 if you think of well, I’m gonna sit with him 3 to 4 times a year, that’s 40 meeting, right? And so if you are not planning out all those meetings all year long, you will not hit them all. You will not. And this is when I get calls in October, with their fiscal years ending in December saying, Oh, no. Oh, no. I’ve only I’ve only brought in 30% of my revenue. And how do I make it up in the last three months of the year? And my answer is it was what you did between January and October like That’s how you would have would have made it up. So you’ve got to move into the discipline and regularity of these activities to pivot up into these larger get

[00:55:11.74] spk_2:
Cherie. We gotta leave it there. It’s perfect. A CZ you said at the end of the day. Yes, you gotta perfectly said, No need to repeat it. Sherry Kwame Taylor Sherry can tell. You’ll find her at kwame taylor dot com And at Sherry. Cute Taylor. Thank you so much for sharing Sherry. One.

[00:55:22.17] spk_5:
Appreciate it.

[00:55:23.06] spk_2:
My pleasure.

[00:55:23.61] spk_5:
Eight weekend

[00:55:26.07] spk_2:
Thank you Next week, Peter Heller, another innovator on keeping the fund inboard fundraising, will dive down into that drill into that bit. Plus, Maria Semple returns. If

[00:55:37.27] spk_0:
you missed any

[00:56:05.80] spk_2:
part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. A

[00:56:46.09] spk_0:
creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff, Sam Leibowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. You’re with me next week for not profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for February 14, 2020: Relationship Fundraising

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My Guest:

Adrian Sargeant: Relationship Fundraising
There’s a lot of conventional wisdom about how to be donor centric and build strong relationships. But what does social psychology research tell us about how to achieve these and what your donors expect from you at each relationship stage? Adrian Sargeant is chief executive of The Philanthropy Centre. (Originally aired March 18, 2016)

 

 

 

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[00:00:13.54] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti

[00:00:31.34] spk_3:
non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% on her aptly named host, Happy Valentine’s Day. I hope that you and your Valentine or Valentine’s may have multiple. Let’s not go into detail. Are enjoying time together I don’t know together, or at least corresponding together to share your affinity and Valentine’s wishes with each other. Um, I remember. I remember in elementary school this is probably kindergarten or first grade E. I think everybody’s done this. We used to make the little Valentine’s Day cards, and you had you did one card for everybody in your little class. And as I look back on that now, I think that is repugnant, forced like this kindergarten coercion that you have to be Valentine’s with everybody in the class. I hated the

[00:01:05.61] spk_2:
kids in my class is I

[00:02:47.55] spk_3:
Look back now They were They were unrequited. Uh uh. I don’t want to say unrequited loves because we’re talking about kindergarten, unrequited crushes. Yeah, and bullies and geeks who reminded me of myself while I was I was trying to be kindergarten. Cool, of course. So these kids drove me crazy and I have to do a card for each one of these little kids. I should’ve put arsenic in or something. What’s that? White powder? Everybody. Males, I forget what that is. Anthrax, I should put it. I should be interactive. Those kindergarten cards just so big deal. Happy Valentine’s Day. All right, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into cardio megally if you swelled my heart with how much you’re looking forward to today’s show relationship. Fundraising. What else? There’s a lot of conventional wisdom about how to be donor centric and build strong relationships. But what the social psychology research tell us about how to achieve these and what your donors expect from you at each relationship stage. Adrian Sergeant was a professor at Plymouth University and directed its Center for Sustainable Philanthropy that originally aired on March 18th 2016 on Tony’s Take two planned giving relationships. What else were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO Adrian Sergeant is now chief executive of the Philanthropy Center, a consultancy in the UK Philanthropy Hyphen Center Dot or GE, with the English speaking um Spelling the English spelling, I should say of Center, Very sophisticated. Here is personalized philanthropy.

[00:03:42.59] spk_2:
It’s my pleasure to welcome Professor Adrian Sergeant to the show. He’s professor of fundraising at Plymouth University and director of the Center for Sustainable Philanthropy. There he used to hold the Hartsook chair in fundraising at the Lily Family School of Philanthropy at Indiana University. Fact, he’s calling today from Bloomington. He’s a prolific author, researcher and presenter. If you go to the Center for Sustainable Philanthropy website, you will get bored scrolling down his list of books, papers, articles and presentations. Center, by the way, is C E N T R e. We have, ah, snooty English university there. Plymouth. He’s at Adrian Sergeant, and his last name is spelled like the military rank. Welcome, doctor, Professor. Edgy and Sergeant.

[00:03:58.14] spk_0:
Well, thanks.

[00:04:00.47] spk_2:
Pleasure. Welcome from from Bloomington, Indiana. How is it there?

[00:04:05.04] spk_4:
It’s a lovely spring day here, and

[00:04:07.43] spk_0:
I’m looking at into blue skies in sometime, which

[00:04:12.63] spk_2:
is not. Not always the case in the UK either.

[00:04:19.35] spk_0:
Uh, no, Certainly not in my part of the UK. Everything you hear about British rain and British weather is pretty much true. My region.

[00:04:23.61] spk_2:
I see. What region where his Plymouth

[00:04:26.71] spk_0:
Thomas is right down in the southwest tip of the country on its claim to fame, I suppose, for your audience is that it’s where the Pilgrim Fathers set sail from

[00:04:36.42] spk_4:
years ago. The Mayflower left from the steps of the barbeque in the area in the city. A plumber.

[00:04:54.89] spk_2:
Oh, excellent. Okay, that’s interesting. Oh, and then Plymouth. Then we have Plymouth Rock on the US side. So? So that was a very symmetric trip. I never knew that. Total symmetry ever

[00:04:56.16] spk_4:
visit. You can actually see the steps that

[00:05:04.10] spk_0:
the Pilgrim Fathers used Thio aboard the main fire before they set bail on that. That point Very epic journey.

[00:05:06.15] spk_2:
Yeah, of course. I I guess they called it Plymouth Rock Thio make it symmetric. So it’s not like it was named. It wasn’t named Plymouth Rock when they landed on it. I don’t want people to think that that’s what I was assuming that it was named Plymouth Rock when they landed. I don’t believe it was, um okay. Oh, very cool. Interesting. Thank you. Um, all right. Relationship fundraising. Adrian, it’s okay if I call you Adrian, right?

[00:05:29.41] spk_0:
Yeah.

[00:05:37.64] spk_2:
Okay. I don’t get Doctor, you know, you’re not calling on me for questions or anything. So Dr a professor. Okay, Adrian, um, what’s the current state of this? I gather it’s not what it ought to be.

[00:05:59.63] spk_0:
No, sadly, the quality of relationship fundraising automatically in the States but around the world is not in a particularly happy space right now on the reason I say that is because he’s now got quite a lot of data on the pattern that dona retention and loyalty that we’re able to generate. And obviously the whole thrust of relationship fundraising is that you want to build longer term, mutually satisfying relationships and supported

[00:06:11.90] spk_2:
yes,

[00:06:25.50] spk_0:
and all the evidence that the moment is that it’s going in entirely the opposite direction we lose. Typically in the States, we lose around 70% of our supporters between the first and the second donation, and then probably around 30% of them year on year thereafter. Well, you try running a business.

[00:06:52.33] spk_2:
Yeah, I’ve had other guests on Quote that exact same statistic, and I don’t understand how this can be because there is so much talk about donor centric donor centrism and we have to listen to our donors and pay attention to their needs and put them in the center. Why Why? Why is this not working? There’s so much talk about it. Why are we not doing it?

[00:07:21.34] spk_0:
I think there are only two reasons for that. One is that often when I talk about loyalty and retention in the sense that kind of preaching to acquire a lot of fundraisers know what they should be doing or could be doing. But they don’t always necessarily get the stain level of investment from the board that they’re looking for on it could be oftentimes quite able to push that level of change through The second reason I think is on. We might talk more about this, but I think one of the problems we have in fundraising is that it’s one of the few professions, in fact, probably the only profession you enjoin

[00:07:38.08] spk_4:
without actually meeting to know anything. Good luck, you know, going to see a dentist

[00:08:03.91] spk_0:
to have studied or doctor that had studied or even employing a plumber who hasn’t studied. It’s important. I think, that fundraisers they’re exposed when they come into the profession to a body of knowledge. Then it’s agreed that this is what you need to know. If you’re going to be a successful, competent, calm razor on that, then organizations would employ people who had demonstrably, you know, got that body of knowledge because we don’t have that right now because we don’t value it. Oftentimes people end up in fundraising rolls where they’re really having to discover things that we already know.

[00:08:34.77] spk_2:
Yeah, now are we getting better? I mean, there are programs. There are degree programs and including at Plymouth University and the ones I can think of in the US at New York University and Columbia. Um, I think Fordham and those are only New York’s those ones. The ads that I get New York City. Those are only New York City. So there are more programs. Are we? Are we starting to recognize the value of a professional pressure, professionally trained fundraising force?

[00:08:45.43] spk_4:
I think

[00:08:46.92] spk_2:
for now

[00:08:47.34] spk_0:
that

[00:08:47.63] spk_2:
No, no, no, we’re not some

[00:09:17.61] spk_0:
of the some of the programs are varying quality. I mean, there are some good ones, obviously, that one come on by you. And there’s one of Mary’s in Minnesota and I could go on. But the sweet spot for fundraising education is where you got a blend delivery by practitioners and academics so that you get some of the emerging science of doing a behavior that impacts on what people Noah’s. Well, sadly, I think some programs are run entirely by practitioners. So you’re gonna get 1/2 of the equation there on what you’ll get, obviously, their you know, their background in their experience, which obviously has a place. But that’s not the same as being exposed to the modern research findings. That example on social psychology we’re gonna talk about that, could be informing what they do.

[00:09:38.26] spk_2:
Yeah, yeah, you end up with more of the conventional wisdom.

[00:10:02.69] spk_0:
Yeah, we’ve got a You know, I’ve mentioned we’ve got a problem with attention right now. What I didn’t say is that actually getting worse. I’ve just completed a very large scale study in England of six million boner records. We’ve looked at people recruited way back in 2000 and compared them with people recruited in 2010 on their substantively less loyal now. So not only we got very leaky bucket, but that bucket is getting weaker by the day.

[00:10:15.01] spk_2:
Okay, that’s Ah, that’s pretty positive motivation in enthusiastic motivation. Let’s Ah, let’s go out for a break. Adrian and I are gonna continue talking. Of course, we’ve got what What drives donor loyalty and how do you measure it? And the stages of the fundraising relationship? Stay with us.

[00:11:05.39] spk_3:
It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As the CPS, for God’s sake. So we know what they do, right? Help with your nine nineties help with your audit. Um, we all are acquainted with what certified public accountants do. So do you need to make a change? Take a look at Wagner. You know, the, um, partner, You know, one of the partners who will be on the show Actually, next week, you each to him, um, started wegner-C.P.As dot com Talk to eat, see if their c p a firm can fit what you need from a c. P a wegner-C.P.As dot com Now back to relationship fundraising.

[00:11:08.60] spk_2:
Adrian, let’s jump in and explore what what it is that we know will drive the donor loyalty that we’re trying to reverse the trend of,

[00:12:13.03] spk_0:
Well, the fact is really quite similar to any relationship that somebody might have with an organization. So there’s a lot of learning that we can take from the commercial world that we find it equally relevant to the non profit space on. My guess is that many of your listeners will have the car service recently or they stayed in a hotel or they used the service online. That probably they’ve been asked at some point, tell us what you think of the service has satisfied. Were you with the quality of that experience on these kind of satisfaction that is, in a sense, kind of quite ubiquitous. I think they re home. They’re Big Quintus is because there’s a huge link between her status side somebody with the court in service. There was the on their level of loyalty on people who are very status by six times more likely to come back and purchase again on average, people who just

[00:12:18.14] spk_4:
satisfied. So there’s, um, active behavioral difference on the

[00:12:30.59] spk_0:
extreme of the scale, right? So the goal needs to be for our organizations to get people to the point where they’re very satisfied, actually with the way they’re treated as a donor. Now, the last one I make here is that the multiple in our world

[00:12:43.22] spk_4:
isn’t as big as it is in the trading context. Trading world very satisfied, equates to six times more likely to come back again in

[00:12:59.29] spk_0:
our world doneness. You say they’re very satisfied that the cause your service provided by the fundraising team are twice as likely to be giving a year, then thin people who say they’re just satisfied. So it’s been a massive factor, but the multiple isn’t quite as big as it might be in other contexts.

[00:13:03.72] spk_2:
Okay, um, any any thoughts? Why, that is why I don’t How come we only get 1/3 of the the likelihood of returning the compared to the corporate world?

[00:13:39.26] spk_0:
Well, I think there’s a range of other factors that player in our space that also have an impact on loyalty and retention satisfactions an important one on one of the things I like to do it folks, that conference isn’t tease and then right in the satisfaction is a major driver of donor loyalty which in terms of which in turn, is a major driver of the value of the fundraising database. So how many people actually measure it? Then on if you’re lucky in a room of 200 people, you might get one hand

[00:13:43.69] spk_2:
goes on, then

[00:14:03.46] spk_0:
you are people well out of those folks you know who’s actually remunerated, how good they make their donuts feel on Duh. You won’t find any hands that go with that point that we don’t take that factor seriously enough. But then there are other things that creep in in our world the trust in the organization that some of your listeners might

[00:14:06.60] spk_4:
be thinking God havens talking about satisfaction with a court

[00:14:10.17] spk_0:
service provided by the fundraising team. But what about all that really great stuff we do with beneficiaries? Surely that’s gotta count for something

[00:14:15.32] spk_2:
in terms

[00:14:40.30] spk_0:
of retention and loyalty, right difference that we make Andi that’s true. But for most donors, unless they’re major donors, the mechanism for that it’s trust. If I’m a major donor and I’ve given you five million to put up a building, in a sense, I don’t need to trust you because I can see the building up. Right. But if I’ve given you $50 to help starving child, that I really have to trust that you say you do exactly what you told me you’re going to do with that resource.

[00:14:46.78] spk_2:
Eso

[00:14:47.42] spk_0:
trust for the vast majority of our donors is a big driving factor in terms of lost in the

[00:14:59.49] spk_2:
Okay. Okay, Um and, uh, you know, these sound very much like, not only, you know, relationship factors in a commercial sense, but also in a personal sense. They are our friends and our parents. No loved ones.

[00:15:33.80] spk_0:
Yeah, a lot of these relationship variables are just as relevant toe all human relationships. Originally, this study of things like satisfaction, trust and commitment all came out something called relationship marketing on what that was trying to do is to take ideas from human relationships on applying. In that case, thio the relationships that businesses have the customers on at the core of a ll. The relationship that we have of the emotions of satisfaction, commitment and trust.

[00:15:40.64] spk_2:
No. Anything you want to tease out about commitment? We spent little time with satisfaction and trust anything more. You want to say about commitment?

[00:15:50.89] spk_0:
Yeah, commitment is one of the really big drivers of loyalty on dhe. Usually that comes out stronger than thin. The others I’ve mentioned

[00:15:56.90] spk_2:
on

[00:16:37.79] spk_0:
what that is is a really burning passion to be the mission of the organization achieved. And you can imagine that people who are committed to finding a cure for breast cancer tend to support charities that do that and for extended periods of time. But that real passion to see the mission achieved is one of the really big drivers of loyalty and retention on. So the question, I suppose, then, is well, I had you build commitment. Then again, we know from research Quite a few things helped build commitment that wanted the risk. So if you’re running a shelter for homeless poke and I’m a donut, the organization and I believe that by canceling my gift today, somebody, somewhere is gonna be without a bed.

[00:16:42.95] spk_4:
Tonight I am a bunch

[00:17:16.68] spk_0:
more likely to continue to support that shelter s O. That element that I see a risk in canceling will help drive commitment. So too, will a personal connection. You know, if my life had been touched, my breast cancer, because I had lost a loved one to it. You can imagine that I’d be pretty fired up about finding a cure for that being committed to those sorts of organizations on then. Also, it worthy of note is something I call multiple engagements, and there’s a micro on a macro level to that. The macro level is that people who are donors and campaigners and service users and volunteers and

[00:17:24.21] spk_4:
and wait,

[00:17:25.49] spk_0:
let me get that and

[00:17:26.26] spk_2:
you

[00:17:52.26] spk_0:
get a whopping back, more loyalty and in the micro level is every time you have a two way interaction where there’s a little bit of cognition that takes place, maybe the organization asking your question, What would you like to receive? What do you think about this? How many times do you want to hear from last year? Do you want to get news? Whatever it might be every time you have that to a interaction with water, you get a little teeny, tiny bit more loyalty. And, of course, in the digital space, it’s now by easy toe have those little, many interactions with people, and it’s really worthwhile because ultimately it drives behavior.

[00:18:01.20] spk_2:
Excellent. Now there’s research supporting all this right

[00:18:05.44] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:06.45] spk_2:
I’ve

[00:18:26.34] spk_0:
bean doing work in the not profit space for the best part of 20 years. Now on. We’ve done large scale survey work with probably a couple 100,000 donors here in the States now getting on for two million donors in Europe, tracking the relationship between satisfaction, commitment, trust and then behaviors of interest. Like like you giving next year with assembly of upgrade on even actually leaving a bequest to the organization.

[00:18:39.14] spk_2:
What about that? That’s a significant How is that a significant factor?

[00:18:46.04] spk_0:
Well, one of the big drivers off the single biggest driver, I’d say, Really, the likelihood that somebody will leave a bequest. The nonprofit organization is how long they’ve been supporting

[00:18:57.92] spk_2:
it, Yes,

[00:19:13.50] spk_0:
on and typically find working with clients. I’ll say, you know, we’re gonna have a request program that is, forget all the complicated plan giving vehicles, but just right, asking somebody to remember a charity with a gift in their will or estate documents, then the single to get indicators of willingness to do that is how long people have been. Giving Onda anytime over three years actually is a pretty good indicator that that person cares about you is committed to the cause and therefore will at least give some consideration to that request. So surprise, Surprise. You know, commitment is a pretty big indicator of the likelihood of doing that.

[00:20:15.74] spk_2:
Okay, Yeah. I don’t know if you know that, but know this, but I do plan to giving fundraising consulting, and that’s where we’re always looking for the best potential bequest donors is who are the most committed loyal donors. And, uh, I didn’t know that a CE feu is three years. Could be could be a positive factor, But I’m always looking for Some organizations are easily, you know, decades older, sometimes sometimes even 100 years old. Couple of the universities have worked. So you know, if people have been giving 2030 years or 25 of the past 30 years, they’re, ah, enormously good potential donor for ah, for bequest or some of the other plan gifts to Yeah,

[00:20:39.88] spk_0:
Yeah, I I’d agree wholeheartedly with that it And it’s amazing how very few organizations even bothered to ask for a bequest on if they do. How many organizations think that somehow people will be inspired by the mechanics of death and dying some of the communications regenerate. Thank you. Just

[00:20:43.20] spk_4:
thank you. Make

[00:20:44.23] spk_0:
a will and

[00:20:45.06] spk_5:
you

[00:21:14.01] spk_0:
may change your will. And then the mechanics of the plan giving vehicles were actually You want somebody to give You want to inspire them with a vision of what the future could look like? That people are inherently more positive about the future on so good. Positive messages about what the world might look like that evoke a little bit of emotion are actually a lot more useful in that quest space than technical brochures about how you die miserable.

[00:21:24.01] spk_2:
Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that digression. But it’s it’s what I spend my time doing when I’m not when I’m not done. Non profit radio. Very interesting to going back to the There’s little micro engagements you get. You get a little uptick. You said of of, ah, commitment went with just these small engagement.

[00:22:15.18] spk_0:
Yeah. Um, if you if you would follow my knife on you woulda measure, let’s say satisfaction and commitment. And you sent out a little survey to a sample of your dignity. Our guarantee. If you tracked that sample of people over time, you’ll find that they’re a little, teeny, tiny, bit more loyal than the balance of the database. And that’s the administration of this little bit of cognition. You’ve got a communication from the Red Cross, Let’s say and you think that’s right. I got a relationship with the Red Cross. I’ll go back to them at all. Well, that’s a relationship with the American Cancer Society. Oh, that’s right. Every time you get that little bit of interaction, you get a little bit more loyalty questionnaire getting people to take other actions on your behalf that aren’t related to fundraising. Getting them to participate in an event that you’re doing online are tuning into a podcast or tell us what you think. All of those things are really smart in terms of loyalty. Because every time you have that interaction punch up just a little bit, how loyal these individuals are

[00:22:38.39] spk_2:
not standing. Love this. Okay, um, we need to be able to measure donor loyalty. How Ah, what are what are the metrics?

[00:22:50.00] spk_0:
Uh, well, one of the one of the big issues we’ve got in our sector right now is the metrics are, well, frankly wrong on to be even more blunt about it. I think a lot of our non profit boards need to be taken at Inspector.

[00:23:10.02] spk_2:
Is that a bare bottom spanking or they keep their pants. They keep their pants up. Is it Is a parrot a bare bottom spank with a paddle? Or is this a bare handed?

[00:23:15.19] spk_0:
I think it depends on the degree,

[00:23:21.48] spk_2:
a degree of readiness you want to achieve. Okay,

[00:23:31.37] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, why did I say that? Well, because oftentimes people who serve on non profit boards are actually quite bright. Oftentimes they had very successful business careers, and that’s one of the reasons that they’re there because they’re plugging in their advice as well. On it’s almost as if they part their bring that side the boardroom before they go through and into the meeting.

[00:23:43.69] spk_4:
Because in the

[00:24:42.74] spk_0:
commercial space, they know very well the measure customer lifetime value and they understand what that is. And I understand why it’s important they understand to the merits of measuring the things that drive customer lifetime value. So that’s why you get the satisfaction. So people measuring commitment and saw you walk through into the non profit boardroom and suddenly somehow all of that knowledge and understanding they had get forgot on. The only metrics we’re interested in is how much raised this part year or month. How many did you attract? Andi, you know, don’t start the metric that short term thinking doesn’t help you think about the lifetime value of your database and you And that was fundraising. That sub optimal. What you end up with this fundraising that is content to recruiting donors on, then lose 70% of them between the first and the second donation. That complete kind of focus on short term measures get people to the point where all they do is chase the short term measures. So we’re going to continue to try and find you Don’t.

[00:24:53.67] spk_2:
No, you don’t.

[00:24:55.12] spk_4:
We’re gonna continue

[00:25:18.04] spk_0:
to try and maximize how much money we could get those spokes. Actually, what we need to do is to take a step back and say, you know, maybe we should be measuring the things with Dr Longer Term or Lifetime Dahlia on beginning to reward our fundraising with the quality of the relationships that they build. Ronda van, you know, the dollars and cents that they raised yet today,

[00:25:22.31] spk_2:
okay.

[00:25:35.58] spk_0:
And immediately you do that, you get a huge change in culture because suddenly what people are interested in doing is building relationships, not having that sort of burn and turn way, haven’t

[00:25:44.95] spk_2:
you? Must have a lot of examples of what we should specifically be measuring in our our fundraisers?

[00:26:01.29] spk_0:
Well, I would if it were me. I would be using some of the same things that the commercial world have been using for 20 years, so I would measure satisfaction commitment on trust. Andi, you know there are measurement scales to doing that. It’s a little survey. You track how people feel

[00:26:22.94] spk_4:
on. If you do that, it’s the It’s the margin of those measures that makes the difference. Remember, I talked earlier about the percentage of people who were very satisfied, very satisfied. That’s the important bit. It’s the extremes of those scales and changes in that that make the difference on the

[00:27:24.83] spk_0:
good news is that even small improvements in loyalty in the here and now translate to a whopping improvements in the lifetime value of the fundraising database. So if I can improve the level of retention by 10% in the here and now, I can increase the last time value of hundreds in database by over 50%. Why? Because the effect compounds over time. So if you’ve got more donors left at the end of this year, you’re gonna have even more the following year. And even more than you know the year after that. For many organizations, that’s not the end of the story either, because most organizations lose money on donor acquisition just to go out and keep finding lots of donors to replace the one we lost that he knew a lot of money on. If you factor that into my equation, my little improvement in loyalty in the here and now of 10% would improve the lifetime, deliver hundreds in database for anything up to 100%. You

[00:27:25.02] spk_4:
can make

[00:27:25.54] spk_2:
a huge

[00:27:26.40] spk_5:
just

[00:27:28.03] spk_0:
by having little improvement in loyalty and hearing that.

[00:27:52.10] spk_2:
All right, um, I wonder if we can drill down to ah, more micro level in terms of the measurement of the performance of our our fundraising staff. Um, are there are there individual metrics and me in terms of how how they have moved donors from one stage to the other or, you know, in terms of the the actual performance of the fund raisers themselves or their metrics there.

[00:28:31.04] spk_0:
I think, I think, the answer, that question. We depend on the form of fundraising that you’re looking at on. So the metrics will be different depending on when it was dark. Don’t nail dot response or someone like Major Get Andi made. You get officers that remunerated to for the amount of money that they raised. But they’re also remunerated for the amount of time it’s been in front of clients. The member of proposals they made the number of recognition events there. Kendall. All of those good things. Um, but one of

[00:28:49.59] spk_4:
the things I think it can be shared a causal. The forms of fundraising is have a good do we make our donuts field today on measuring that that quality of the relationship, And that does come back again. The satisfaction commitment on dhe trust in the dark spot space. I would also be saying, you know, we should be taking decisions about

[00:28:55.77] spk_0:
investments on the basis off

[00:29:28.04] spk_4:
donor lifetime value on DDE. What that means in your complaining the issues that if we’re going to invest in an acquisition campaign we’re no gonna assess that campaign is a success simply because we bought in 200 donors on a lot of 100 donors because it may be that most people were recruited, won’t come back and give again right that we’ve gone with the other alternative campaign. We could have run, you know, we only recruited in 100 donors, but actually, most of those people stayed giving for the next five years. So taking

[00:29:53.24] spk_0:
longer term decisions based on that lifetime value, I think is really smart and even in small organizations that may behind a little difficult to do some of that matter. Maybe because they’re working on, even like a simple Excel database or something, they can still be looking at things like Retention Lee on beginning to shift the focus of the way in which the team is remunerated to the level of loyalty that’s engendered now. If you can also measure the things that drive loyalty, that’s great. But if you can’t, then the starting point for me is at least to get a sense of the health of that program and the health of relationships that just by you know, the numbers of people who were still actively engaged in court.

[00:30:24.90] spk_2:
Agent. I love the idea of measuring how donors feel of, um all right, we’re gonna come back. I need you to hang out for a couple of minutes while I do a little business. Don’t go anywhere, Adrian. Just Ah, just, uh, just keep listening.

[00:32:09.45] spk_3:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software Quote We’ve been very happy with Cougar Mountain. It’s rare to encounter a problem with software, but they are always there to help walk me through it. End quote. That’s Sally Hancock in Altuna, Pennsylvania. More raves about their customer service. Don’t take it from me. Take it from the ticket from the customers. The user’s You got it. They have a free 60 day trial, which you will find on the listener landing page at now. It’s time for Tony’s Take two and your planned giving relationships. Yes, the thing I like most about planned giving. It’s the relationships and being a consultant, I have a lot fewer of these donor relationships than I did in the ah back in the years when I was director of planned giving. But there are still some and and instead of having them and enjoying them personally. I sort of enjoy Maur a greater proportion of them by Karius Lee by coaching clients, helping them to build these plant giving donor and potential donor relationships. You know, these were talking about America’s elders, and they have stories that are touching and scary. Um, historical, Uh, you know, it’s a They have a different perspective because it’s different generation and you can you can just you can learn so much. They’re in a different phase of their life. They’re more relaxed. Mostly, um, it’s, uh, yeah, the relationships. It’s very touching, part of a plan giving program, and I go in even more detail. And I’ve got a story or two on the video, which you will find at tony-martignetti dot com about planned giving relationships. And that is Tony’s Take two. Now back to relationship fundraising.

[00:35:00.59] spk_2:
I gotta send live listener love. I want to shout you out by city and state, but Sam here is having board the back end problems or something more talk about spanking or in the back end again. Um, we can’t see you by city and state, so I know that you’re out there New York, New York. ST Louis, Missouri Boston, Massachusetts New Bern, North Carolina, California I know there’s somebody in California listening, probably San Francisco, but I know there’s a California listener. Those are the live Listen, love people the loyal live a look that loyal, live listener live. Um, that I know her out there love, of course, to all the current live listeners and going abroad. I know there are listeners right now in Tokyo. Konnichiwa, I know we have listeners in China and Taiwan because we always do Ni Hao And I know that South Korea is checking in because it does week after week on Yo Hoss, I Oh, now, in case we are ah, in ah, in Mexico, we’ve had listeners in Mexico. Buenas today’s The Czech Republic occasionally does check in Dobre den Germany. We occasionally get Germany. Guten tag. Okay, I think that covers Ah, the most frequent live listeners. Sorry, we can’t do you No city and state as usual. We will get this back end problem slapped and slapped. Ah, and fixed by next week. Gotta send podcast pleasantries. Never forget the podcast listeners, Whatever it is you’re doing painting your house washing your dishes at whatever time you’re listening. Whatever activity, whatever device, over 10,000 of you so grateful pleasantries to the many podcast listeners and affiliate affections to our multiple multiple AM and FM stations throughout the country. Listeners from the Finger Lakes in New York to Salem, Oregon, and lots of states in between affiliate affections to our many affiliate listeners. Okay, Adrian. Sergeant, thank you so much for holding on. I have Thio have to acknowledge all our all our listeners of whatever ilk and variety they come. They all get a special shout out. So thank you for your patients. Um, we have ah, I love these measures, but we gotta move on. Let’s let’s talk about the different stages. You’ve identified stages of the donor relationship and there are different strategies appropriate for each. First just please just lay out the but the, um, the stages are, and then we’ll come back and revisit.

[00:35:37.96] spk_0:
Well, there’s an awareness stays where people become aware of the organization. For the first time on exploration plays, people begin to kind of extra what the relationship might might mean for them on. Then you’re kind of deeper into the relationship where there begins to be an element of commitment. And then eventually, over time, you know, some relationships will come to an end. Of course not. Everybody’s gonna continue giving for forever. But what we don’t know how you treat different points in that journey can make a very big difference. Unsurprisingly, how loyal?

[00:35:42.01] spk_2:
Yes, and especially knowing that these micro engagements make a difference in loyalty. I going back to that because I admire it so much. I love it. Um, okay, we have a few minutes we can spend, you know, on each of the stages. But help us with awareness what’s going on? And what should we be doing to give our donors what they’re seeking at that stage?

[00:36:12.32] spk_0:
Well, at this point, I suppose we’re talking about people who haven’t given for the organization before. So we’re talking about individuals that you’re trying to list it, too. Get them to make a contribution for the first

[00:36:19.24] spk_4:
time on one of the things I say about fundraising in

[00:36:44.67] spk_0:
generally that some of what we generate is is really bland on. If you want to get people to give, you want them to give reasonable sums of money have to make him feel something. Logic leap to conclusions. Emotion leads the action on fundraisers. Don’t want conclusions. Progress this far in large one people take action.

[00:36:47.53] spk_2:
Yes.

[00:36:48.02] spk_4:
And so you’ve

[00:37:14.00] spk_0:
got to get people to feel something you’re gonna stimulate them to give to your organization on dhe. Too many particular kind of Sunday letters in this country. You know, a bland three or four paragraphs might inspire somebody was on the cusp of making a gift. Could, you know that’s not gonna happen. You’ve got to generate materials that Helen emotional story

[00:37:18.46] spk_2:
and telling

[00:37:19.42] spk_0:
a stipulate that all important.

[00:37:22.33] spk_2:
Okay, okay. Emotion. Um, it’s very intuitive, but we still see a lot of ah, bad practice out there.

[00:38:10.51] spk_0:
Yeah, way. Still see a lot of those very bland one page letters signed by the chief executive, maybe even a picture of the chief executive when Actually, there’s a lot to say around the nature of the cause that could be compelling. I’ll give you one example of a pact that’s doing the rankings again. It’s been around for years, But Amnesty International, they sent out a flat pain attached to a piece of card with a picture of somebody whose eyes have been gouged at on the strap line effectively says, What you hold in your hand is an instrument of torture when you read to your horror that actually why this person’s eyes against that is because some somebody somewhere in the world used the pain on this youngster Thio get guided either. And it’s horrible when

[00:38:23.39] spk_4:
you when

[00:38:38.46] spk_0:
you read it and you’re outraged. And of course, the pen can also be a mechanism for doing something about it. On immediately, I get youto feel the anger or feel the compassion for that child I talked you into the court was you understand why what I do is important at that point. And are you more likely to respond and make a gift? Of course.

[00:38:47.75] spk_5:
On you know, there

[00:38:48.92] spk_0:
are lots of other examples we could talk

[00:38:50.30] spk_2:
about. That solution

[00:38:51.55] spk_0:
is absolutely critical to getting people to get for the first time.

[00:39:01.27] spk_2:
That’s a brilliant one. Well done. Ah, Amnesty Bravo. I give you

[00:39:29.87] spk_0:
one other from kidney research in the UK. Um, there was a cent a pack that told the story of a little girl who has kidney disease on very likely won’t won’t live for many years. On the letter that was contained with the picture of this little girl was actually a letter from her kidney. Two little Katie apologizing for the fact that you know the kidney is not able to do its job

[00:39:32.83] spk_2:
and heart

[00:39:33.64] spk_0:
rending little

[00:39:34.22] spk_5:
store.

[00:39:56.08] spk_0:
But, you know, when you read it, you’ve given a real strong connection to that little girl, and you feel the heartbreak that her parents must be going through and immediately you do that. If you’ve got kids yourself, you get that lump in your throat when you think my goodness, you know I have to do something about that because that’s horrible. I don’t want the little girls like Katie not be heard, not be able to have the operation in the care they need.

[00:40:01.96] spk_2:
My okay. Uh, very touching. Let’s go to AA exploration. What’s happening there?

[00:42:35.84] spk_0:
Well, at that point in the relationship that they’re kind of getting to know you stage that’s taking place. Andi, I noticed now that there are a number of charities playing very creatively with three D communications s o, you see people less in the U. S. But another part of the world Act on shopping malls and high streets with three D headsets so that people can experience what it’s like to be in a school in Botswana, what it’s like to be in a hospital in northern Nigeria or wherever it might be in the world. So you can sort of transport people away for a few moments to be able to see the work that’s being done on the ground. I think those things are quite powerful here in states of one international aid organization that does that great powerfully with trailers, and it’ll take a trailer to a community. Then you can go inside that trailer and you can walk around a school in the developing world, and you can see the country experiences of those kids having so thinking in a very creative Ryan back. Taking people inside the cause, I think is really important don’t necessarily need to involve the latest technology. Certainly video pictures that take you into that world, I think very important on The other thing I would say at this point, is that you might begin to creep some choice in to the kind of relationship that you’re having with individuals I used to. When I was teaching this 20 years ago, I’d say, Well, it’s awful People choice from day one. So you you allow people to choose whether they want a hard copy newsletter Oh, our digital newsletter or no newsletter, but appeals or whatever since realized that it’s smarter to wait just a little bit until people get into the relationship so that they can take smarter decisions about actually what they want. Because if you ask me from Day One Adrian, do you want a newsletter? Then a green is almost certainly gonna say no, right, because newsletters sound boring, and I’m probably not gonna want that. But if you wait four or five months into the relationship, how regular newsletter? And actually I’ve realized that this is really quite moving or you know, the information that there is compelling and uninterested. Then I’m all like it say no. Actually, I’ll continue to receive So giving people a little bit of choice of the communications is a smart thing to do in relationship fundraising

[00:42:41.70] spk_2:
ago.

[00:42:42.22] spk_4:
But I

[00:42:51.20] spk_0:
would begin to creep that Emma’s. The relationship begins to develop over time, and I’d allow people to identify the kinds of things they want in the frequency.

[00:43:12.38] spk_2:
Okay, we’re gonna go out for a break. I have to mention then that the people who attended your early programs did not get the got screwed it better. Better to come to a later Adrian Sergeant presentation or Webinar. If you were doing Webinars back then, probably not know. 20 years ago, there was no there was no web. But But you get checked the guy out now because he’s learned from his own his own research. All right,

[00:43:19.01] spk_0:
Probably by the time I know exactly what I’m talking.

[00:43:23.65] spk_2:
Yes, that’ll be brilliant. Okay, there’s gonna be a gonna be a nursing home. It’s gonna get great great pro bono advice from you. Okay, let’s go out for a break. Adri and I will talk about the next stage commitment. And then we also talk about next steps for you and for Adrian’s research. Stay with us.

[00:44:13.09] spk_3:
It’s time for our last break. Relationships. Do you want journalists to know you so that when news breaks, they call you for the expertise they know that you’ve got turn to is former journalists, including for the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know how to build relationships with journalists and get all the media to heart you right? That’s how you get great coverage when it matters. When the news breaks, you want to be called, or at least have your calls taken. They’re a turn hyphen to DOT CEO. We’ve got butt loads. More time for relationship fundraising.

[00:44:48.41] spk_2:
Um, I won’t let you know that you can get this research at pursuant dot com slash relationship fundraising pursuant dot com slash relationship fundraising pursuant is one of the funders of this research and thankfully, through their sponsorship, I met Adrian. And, uh, we’re getting this enormously wonderful value on today’s show. So thank you. Pursuant. Thank you, Adrian. Welcome, pleasure. All right, let’s go to Ah, now we just have, like, five or six minutes left. So we need to be a little efficient without time. The next stage commitment. What’s what’s happening there?

[00:45:02.81] spk_4:
Well, in commitment, you’re really beginning then to build up that strong relationship bond with the supporter.

[00:45:08.35] spk_0:
One of the things I would be doing much earlier on at the point

[00:45:11.52] spk_4:
of acquisition, actually to gather information about the sorts of things that the individual is interested in. If you’ve got a nonprofit that has four or five different kinds of program, or I think that is going on. I’d be asking them early on in the relationship which of those things they’re particularly interested in? Because if I do nothing

[00:45:27.25] spk_0:
else that I’m gonna make sure that when I’ve got something going on in one of those spaces that

[00:45:41.94] spk_4:
they’re interested in, that they know about it and have the opportunity reported being respectful of people’s interests, I think is a particularly kind of key thing and building that commitment.

[00:45:43.48] spk_2:
Okay. And that on bat comes back to some of what you were saying about giving people a choice.

[00:45:54.08] spk_4:
Yeah, if you understand why people are supporting the organization that you know that that’s a powerful thing you can then use to shake the communication where they’re gonna follow.

[00:46:16.68] spk_2:
Okay, By the way, I created a false sense of urgency, but not deliberately. When I said five or six minutes, I was alone. We have more like nine minutes left, so don’t you have an extra three minutes. So take a nap and ah, and then we’ll pick up after a three minute nap. No, um what else we got You can laugh openly, so I should hope you Please weigh. Need somebody to be laughing,

[00:46:22.77] spk_4:
thinking that my students would probably appreciate

[00:46:30.40] spk_2:
you pass that on to them, but do it at the end of the class. Do it at the very end of the class. Um,

[00:46:35.39] spk_4:
yeah.

[00:46:40.95] spk_2:
Okay, um, anymore. Yeah, yeah.

[00:46:53.48] spk_4:
If I pick up on on the nation of commitment, I think one of the other things that people possibly don’t realize that came through from my report is that the value that donors get from the

[00:47:06.36] spk_0:
relationship shifts a bit of the relationship deepens. So initially, when you’ve got that really powerful emotional packed communication that you’re not gonna use, people are really interested in the impact on the beneficiary write all about. Did you do what you said you were gonna do

[00:47:24.93] spk_4:
and have no impact on that child’s life? Well, as the relationship deepens, the donor becomes at least as much concerned about what impact on the child. I mean, for my sense of who I am

[00:47:29.88] spk_2:
on.

[00:47:35.07] spk_4:
I think you know what we’re talking about. Then it’s something that psychologists call identity, and I think that’s gonna be the next big thing in fundraising because

[00:47:42.94] spk_0:
it’s a little different from understanding the motives that people have for supporting it. The motives for supporting little Katie

[00:47:48.57] spk_4:
and her kidney operation example. Identity is a bit different. Instead

[00:47:50.59] spk_0:
of what motivated used to support the organization. That stage you’re asking, what are people saying about themselves when they give? So what kind of person are they saying they are when they support

[00:48:05.83] spk_2:
my non profit Adrian York? Let

[00:48:05.97] spk_4:
me understand that

[00:48:07.45] spk_0:
we can begin to shape our communication to make them feel good about that being that kind of

[00:48:48.80] spk_2:
Gen Shang, your colleague at the Center for Sustainable Philanthropy, C E N T R E was on was on non profit radio talking about something that this makes me think of, Um, she had research from public radio when people would call in to public radio to make a gift. They were greeted with something along the lines of thank you for being a kind supporter or a loyal supporter or a generous supporter, and she had different adjectives and and tested different adjectives against outcomes and particularly among women. The right adjectives would increase the the women’s giving through through these phone calls. Does that sound familiar to you?

[00:48:58.47] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And what you’re talking about there, of course, is one kind of identity. You’re talking about moral identity.

[00:49:04.53] spk_2:
Okay,

[00:49:11.25] spk_0:
so, you know, a lot of giving might be because I’m saying Adrian is a moral person. I might also

[00:49:11.83] spk_4:
be saying I’m a father. I’m a parent. I’m a cancer survivor. I’m a patriot. I’m

[00:49:21.38] spk_0:
a liberal I’ma environmentalist. I’ma, i’ma i’ma. And when you understand the identity that’s being articulated, then you make people feel good about that, right? Because if they’re gonna give, when they’re that kind of person, let’s Let’s tell them it’s good to be that kind of person and give him the kind of content that really reinforces that I don’t see it makes him feel good.

[00:49:37.85] spk_2:
Yeah.

[00:49:38.31] spk_0:
Remember we said earlier in this conversation, I think one

[00:49:40.77] spk_4:
of the things we need to

[00:50:27.43] spk_0:
do moving forward if toe worry about hitting the need of our beneficiaries so sure that we could be at least is concerned with how good we made our donors feel today on one of the keys to unlocking that is to understand what they’re saying about themselves when they give to our organization and what that support of us really means to their sense of who they are. And I was saying that the relationship deepens people away to what that really means for them and who they are. On dhe, we start to be looking for a relationship. So the time to meet some of our higher order needs. And by that I mean connected personal growth, self fulfillment,

[00:50:28.51] spk_2:
Yes,

[00:50:52.96] spk_0:
what has my support, my five years support of your non profit organization, say about my personal growth and had connected? I am with people that are important to me where I am incomes of myself fulfill it. If we start to think about right, that’s where our longer term supporters are. Maybe we can help them make some of those reflections on feeling better about their support of our organization is actually where we communicate across more than any other sex. Er, we should really be concerned with maximizing how good we can make our supporters feel.

[00:51:11.60] spk_2:
Okay, Adrian, I I have to stop our our substance because we gotta move to next steps and we just have a couple of minutes left, and I want to get to both parts of this. So what can a non profit do with this wealth of information?

[00:51:39.28] spk_0:
Well, if you visit if they visit the pursuant website, they’ll be out of download a copy off. There are really two key volumes to the to the research. One is lessons from relationship marketing. One is lessons from social psychology on. They could trial some of those ideas for themselves and their fundraising. So that’s the most obvious thing that folk might be to do at the end of the court. Go to the website, have a report, anything there?

[00:51:50.51] spk_2:
Okay, and again that it’s pursuant dot com slash relationship fundraising. That’s where you’ll find the four volumes. But Adrian, you’re recommending the 1st 2 as being most valuable. Sounds like,

[00:52:02.01] spk_0:
uh, that they’ve certainly covered most of material we talked about today,

[00:52:05.94] spk_4:
okay, and there’s

[00:52:09.87] spk_0:
a lot of other ideas from social psychology. The other thing that might like to do if they’re in an organization that of a reasonable size, we’re planning on doing a serious of field experiments over the next two years.

[00:52:20.70] spk_2:
Yes,

[00:52:37.59] spk_0:
we’ll work with a number of non profit partners on blitz there. Don’t find it too. 1/2 would continue to get the communications that they get now. The other half would get communications that bean tweaked in some way to help build up relations.

[00:52:39.91] spk_2:
OK, very quickly. What type of organization are you looking for?

[00:53:04.72] spk_0:
We’re looking for organizations that have groups have donors that are above 600 people s. So we’re not looking for organizations that are necessarily massive that we’re looking for. Organizations that have a reasonable number of donors in each of the segments they want to study on will be willing to work with a bearing the cost of doing those experiment.

[00:53:07.43] spk_2:
Okay,

[00:53:07.76] spk_0:
we’ll get the impact of that relationship approach on money raised on how good people feel.

[00:53:13.36] spk_2:
Okay. Oh, excellent. Getting to the feelings. Uh, what’s your email address? If people would like to submit their organization or talk to you more about being on in the research,

[00:53:31.63] spk_0:
it’s a green dot sergeant a d r i n dot s a r g e a n t at Plymouth y m o u t h don’t a c don’t you Kay?

[00:53:42.26] spk_2:
Excellent. Adrian, we have to leave it there. Thank you so much. So much valuable information thank you. Cheers.

[00:54:03.42] spk_3:
Next week, you’ll each tomb returns with how to select your auditor, and Jean Takagi will be with us in the studio. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As Guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Bye, Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for your non profit. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. A creative producers.

[00:55:15.64] spk_1:
Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this cool music is by Scotts. Dine with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day, huh?

Nonprofit Radio for January 17, 2020: Personalized Philanthropy

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My Guest:

Steven Meyers: Personalized Philanthropy
It’s his 3 killer apps for fundraising that make Steven Meyers an innovator, and he raised a lot of money using them with donors. He was first on the show several years ago, but his groundbreaking ideas remain largely outside the mainstream, for no good reason. (Originally aired 6/17/16)

 

 

 

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[00:00:13.94] spk_1:
Hello and welcome

[00:01:22.90] spk_2:
to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. The Innovators. Siri’s continues this week, as last week was, our first continues this week. Now, every show is not gonna be an innovator. Show like next week will not be an innovator, but the innovators air peppered in on and the others are brilliant guests that have very smart ideas to share. Just not quite innovators. Okay, I’m glad you’re with me. You’d get slapped with a diagnosis of metastasize, a phobia if you missed our second show in the Innovators. Siri’s personalized philanthropy and live innovators are coming. I promise. It’s his three killer APS for fundraising that make Steve Myers an innovator, and he raised a lot of money using them with donors. He was first on the show several years ago, but his groundbreaking ideas remained largely outside the mainstream for no good reason that originally aired June 17th 2016 on tony Stake to planned giving for 2020 were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cook, a Mountain software Denali fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits. Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Here is personalized Philanthropy

[00:01:49.24] spk_3:
I’m very pleased that Steve Myers is here in the studio for the hour. He is vice president of the Center for Personalized Philanthropy at the American Committee for the Weizmann Institute of Science and author of the book Personalized Philanthropy. Crash. The Fundraising Matrix. He’s a frequent and popular speaker, and he’s at Steven Myers. 863 S T e v E N N e Y E R s Welcome, Stephen Meyers. Welcome to the studio.

[00:02:17.49] spk_4:
I love tony.

[00:02:23.58] spk_3:
Glad to have you in person. I love it here. Glad you’re here. Um, let’s start with the basics with the title. What is this Matrix That you want people to crash?

[00:02:48.34] spk_4:
Yes, the book is called Crash The Fundraising Matrix. Because, um, it reflects what my experience was when I I I was in the process of writing the book when I realized all along that I’d been living in these two cultures that were completely unaware of each other and the Matrix. The movie The Matrix is the perfect metaphor for describing these two cultures. If you remember in the movie

[00:02:57.42] spk_3:
you have to describe, I didn’t see the movie

[00:03:07.71] spk_4:
in the movie. People were taken over by cybernetic implants, robots, machines that rebelled against humanity. And they existed only in, ah, like in a computer matrix. And everybody in the Matrix was really unaware of it. They just thought that everything was normal. They were living in their normal lives, and they didn’t realize that they were kind of being held prisoners, that they were enslaved in a sense. And that’s what the movie is about. When this one person that called Neo the one wakes up to the fact that he’s living in this synthetic artificial environment.

[00:03:35.22] spk_3:
You are You are our neo

[00:03:55.21] spk_4:
I am, and I’m standing in for all the fundraisers who are trying to wake up who feel the same sense of something’s just not right in my world is the fundraiser, and that was the experience that I had. Um, and I wanted to write the book to share that with people so they could wake up, help them to wake up and kind of escape the confines of the silos and the channels that they’ve been stuck in for so many years. Okay, sometimes without even realizing it.

[00:04:16.26] spk_3:
Okay. Uh, so you’re neo nickname Neo? Okay, Steve Neo Myers. Um, all right. Rob was deconstructing The titles are working away backwards. Now, what is the this model Personalized philanthropy

[00:05:26.24] spk_4:
Personalized philanthropy is is the antidote the opposite of what goes on in the Matrix? If you think about fundraising and philanthropy when it translates into the way that we work, it’s really like there’s two cultures. There’s an institutional focused culture which is focused almost entirely on trying to make campaign goals and reach objectives within the annual department or the major gift department. And the plan giving department. And even the small organizations tend to mimic these thes Silas and channels. My first experience was in really working and maybe a two man organization to people, and one of us was assigned this one channel and the other one of us was assigned to the other channel. And how ridiculous is that? It’s a counter intuitive. So the institutional focus is set off against this personalized focus, where instead of trying to service the campaign. You’re trying to serve the interests of donors. You meet the donor where they are instead of where the institution is. So you’re really talking about a whole new definition of what philanthropy is and what fundraising is. Four.

[00:05:55.34] spk_3:
We’ve been talking about donor centered fundraising for a dozen years or so Roughly, maybe, maybe more. Sure. I mean, I’ve been fundraising for 19 years. I don’t think we started out that long ago. But donor centric fundraising donor centered has been around for I’d say at least a dozen years or so. Why is how are you neo gonna gonna make this different and actually get us to where donor center is supposed to have been a CZ long as 12 or 15 years ago.

[00:07:20.44] spk_4:
We’ve been talking about donor centered this and donor center that for a really long time, but we really haven’t had much to do about it. Um, when some people talk about donor centered fundraising, they’re talking about recognizing the donor or maybe finding a vehicle that they’re talking about selling a vehicle that they need to sell in order to make to bring that donor in so really donor centered fundraising and that’s really a copyrighted. It’s a trademarked. Yeah, Um, and it it really could have to do with how you thank them. How you write to them, how you called, cultivate them. But it doesn’t really have anything to do with what fundraising and philanthropy is about which, under my definition, the deafness that I’ve been working with is trying to mesh the compelling needs of interests off a donor with the compelling needs of the organization. So that changes. If you start with that definition where the donor’s needs matter, that’s the focus is on them. I really refer to this is donor focus giving rather than donor centered giving because the shift means that you’re focused on trying to understand the compelling interests in the passions of the donor and how they would connect to your organization. All right, that’s much different than the institutional focus

[00:07:33.14] spk_3:
on our hope. Personalized philanthropy is gonna is not gonna take this long to be really be realized, as as donor the donor centered trademark name. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. You’re the You’re the evangelist for for personalized philanthropy.

[00:07:37.75] spk_4:
I believe I am,

[00:08:04.99] spk_3:
I presume. Okay. Very good. We got the right person, and I mean you you brought the book. All right, Um, there’s let’s make sure now we just have a minute or so before break, but we got plenty time to talk. We’re you know, you’re here for the full hour. Let’s make sure that small and midsize shops know that they have. This is applicable to them. And they probably have advantages in trying to pivot to to be personalized philanthropists, philanthropies sent centers or shops, right?

[00:08:36.44] spk_4:
Yes. When I wrote the book, I was thinking of the person like me who was working in a small shop who had a background in annual giving and found themselves working in a major giving field. So for me, they were always connected. And I think that this is about empowering and enabling a person in a small shop to make a difference with every donor that they work with, not just the ones that there focused on for annual or planned or major giving. You meet the donor where they are. That’s the That’s the magic of this.

[00:08:43.74] spk_3:
Okay, excellent. All right. I want that reassurance. I’m very glad to hear it. And ah, Steve and I are gonna keep talking about personalized philanthropy. Stay with us.

[00:09:18.75] spk_2:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As in the new year, might you need a new C p A. A firm whose service is excellent, provides clear directions and timetables, is easy to work with and where you know, a partner That’s heat Coach Tomb has been a guest several times on the show. He’s gonna be coming back, and he will tell you whether Wagner can help you in 2020. So you start at wegner-C.P.As dot com and then pick up the phone and talk to eat. Now back to personalized philanthropy.

[00:09:29.78] spk_3:
Okay, Steve Myers, um, you talk about in the book you mentioned a few times Transformation over transaction Flush that out from. Yeah,

[00:10:17.64] spk_4:
there’s two ways to think about fundraising the usual ways to think about the donor period and have a colleague who was written a book about the Donor Life Science Cycle Pyramid and the Pyramid. You’re thinking about transactions. You’re thinking about where a donor falls as a major donor at the top, in the middle or at the bottom. Transformational fundraising. You really thinking about time you’re thinking about loyalty? You’re thinking about relationships and they can take place over time. And the problem with with the pyramid style, the transactional, is that each transaction is separate and unrelated to all the others. What personalized philanthropy does is it creates a new model where all the transactions are connected to one another so that each gift can count in a way that would never count ordinarily. And it could explain. I can give you an example

[00:10:20.15] spk_3:
of examples stories. Just imagine.

[00:11:01.84] spk_4:
Imagine a rope. What end of the rope is the first gift and another end of the rope is the last gift. This is the chain of value in in in plan giving in and fundraising. And if you know all the all the value comes out at the end when the donor dies, implant giving it well, really. And if you think about the lifetime value of a donor, the big gifts come at the end. Yes. Okay. Ah, and you’re looking for bumps and major gifts and special gifts gifts. You make frequently gifts you make once in a while during a campaign and gifts you make once when you die. So what you have is you have a long rope with a lot of knots in it. What you’re gonna do and personalized philanthropy is you’re gonna move this rope around and you’re going to connect all of the knots. And that’s good means that all of these gifts are going to be connected with what another and they’re going to be united around, Ah, common purpose that the donor has an objective goal that not one gift could achieve. But all together, they can start to make a big difference during the donor’s lifetime. That’s a radical rethinking of how philanthropy works.

[00:11:26.88] spk_3:
Can we tie the two ends of the rope together and make a circle so that it’s it’s unending and non never breaks a

[00:11:34.59] spk_4:
circle? Or you could make a

[00:11:36.25] spk_3:
don’t make a new You don’t make the news.

[00:11:43.13] spk_4:
You make it. You’ll make a circle. You’re making really a tapestry like a like a Persian rug, each each. A lifetime of giving has a different design, and each donor kind of weaves their own tapestry of giving as they go through their life.

[00:12:01.54] spk_3:
Okay, I won’t force you to take the metaphor any further. We’re going to start making cat beds, and that’s not okay. Okay, um, Now, you you run at the Weizmann Institute, the Center for Personalized Philanthropy. I’m I’m betting that it wasn’t called the Center for Personalized Philanthropy. When you first got there, you had to make some changes.

[00:12:26.42] spk_4:
I was the national director of plan giving that I was the national vice president for plan giving. And then ultimately, we decided to abandon the title of plan given, because

[00:12:28.02] spk_3:
sounds very solid. And may Trixie to me. Well, it was

[00:12:38.14] spk_4:
it was we came to realize that plan giving us Justus much asylum or channel has any of these other pains, and we weren’t working that way anymore. So we wanted to change that. Actually, what inspired the change from plan giving to personalized philanthropy was when my organization, the Weizmann Institute, decided to establish a center for personalized medicine. That’s a collaborative, multi disciplinary, interdisciplinary program where people are, um, um, collaborating in all kinds of new ways. And when I heard that phrase personalized medicine, You mean this medicine is designed for one person only. And it’s gonna work the first time

[00:13:11.97] spk_3:
in their DNA to select connected

[00:13:56.12] spk_4:
with that with their Deanna. Why, You know, that just was a wake up call for me that that’s what Philanthropy and fund raising Auto bay. All right, one of you kind of full spectrum. All the building blocks should be available to you. You bring them toe where the donor is, rather than trying to sell them something that you have you been instructed, really? Basically toe bring to them and ask them, Would you make a gift of X for this math, building, math and science building? And it doesn’t matter if the person cares about math or science. Maybe they were in the art department or they were a into literature or poetry. And why would they?

[00:14:15.44] spk_3:
Yeah, but we need based on our needs, space, the organization’s needs. But now you had to do some cultural and organizational change to create the the the Center for Personalized Philanthropy. What advice do you have for people who want to initiate this in their own organization? How do we start that conversation?

[00:14:31.62] spk_4:
I wouldn’t make a lot. I wouldn’t wait a lot for the organization to change its culture or its policies or procedures. Personalized plate. That is something that you could begin to think about when you kind of open up your your mind first realize that there is this matrix of Silas and channels that all of our fundraising basically is in. Right. And you want to try to find a way to connect your current giving in your future, giving around where your donors are at. And in order to do that you need like like an personalized medicine. They have technology. They have. They’re using technology in new ways. They have computational biology, so they could look at all this life science information in a systematic way. And this technology allows them to personalize medicine. So we have to have some tools that allow us to do this. And so I developed these things that I called killer APS. They are gift designs for bringing together current and future gifts that could be personalized and individually tailored to work with each donor.

[00:16:09.74] spk_3:
Yes, and we’re gonna get to the killer APs. But where were sporting neos throughout the throughout the world And there are in small, most of them listeners. There’s a small and midsize nonprofits, and they want to start a conversation about making a shift to personalize philanthropy from the Matrix that they are now burdened with right? I were want some tips. How did they start? But they’re going to sound like a lunatic the first time they go to their vice president or their CEO executive director, personalized philanthropy. And they have rope metaphors and not something you know how may be based on your own experience or, you know you’re coaching of others. How do we get this process started in our own currently matrix to shop?

[00:17:03.18] spk_4:
Well, as I said, the first thing you have to do is wake up to the fact that you’re working in a silo. Oh, and awareness awareness. And then you need to look outside of yourself outside of your silo. And, for instance, if you’re involved in playing giving, you know that one of the things that really makes that correlates with the plan gift is the donor who gives all the time. A donor who gives frequently tends to be the kind of person who wants to remember your organization in their estate plans. In fact, they may already have done that. So you would think, Wouldn’t it be amazing if we, without changing very much of this donor’s habit or pattern of giving. They could have a much greater impact today, instead of waiting until their death when they’re bequest comes in so kind of realizing that it’s possible Tiu have impact and recognition for a donor that begins right now.

[00:17:20.60] spk_3:
Okay, were so we’re gonna look to methods off current recognition and current value for both the organization and the and the donor, right, rather than long term. All right, All right, let’s start and and you have the killer APs before we get to the killer APS I think I’d like you just explain the spend rate because the Apsara largely dependent on an endowment spend rate, and there may very well be organization. I don’t even have an endowment yet, so let’s explain, spend rate.

[00:17:56.70] spk_4:
This personalized philanthropy works whether or not you have an endowment or not, Right. If you don’t have an endowment, you still need to have cash reserves, and you still need to be able to be financially sound. So that’s an objective that every organization has, even if they’re, ah, food bank or the kind of organization where they believe that they should not have an endowment. So

[00:18:05.04] spk_3:
there are a good number of them. There’s a

[00:19:09.34] spk_4:
lot of them out there, actually smaller ones, right? But the basic principle involved here is what I would call something like like this. It’s the grail of fundraising. The question that is not asked very often by donors to the organization is what’s the best gift that I could give you if I could give you anything that you wanted? Most organizations would ask for ID, like a gift of cash, and I like it right now. Thank you very much on and they would, and they would like to have it for general purposes. Um, but the question that they don’t know to ask is, Can we have a gift that will start working right away? Because we need to pay our bills. We have current deeds, and we also want to sustain ourselves for the future. So we need a gift that starts now and grows and scales up for the future. And most people in plain giving our only focus on the future. And most people in major and annual giving our only focus current president. So this grail of fundraising is the gift that really is the ultimate, the kind of gift that the organization needs the most but doesn’t even know how to ask for. OK, and that’s the kind of gift that we’re talking.

[00:19:17.70] spk_3:
All right, let’s define spend rate for people, and then we’ll get to your killer. APS spends Ben Drake

[00:19:21.72] spk_4:
please in an endowment on down when it’s usually thought to be the most important type of gift because a person makes a gift. And instead of being expended immediately, it goes into a bank account, an investment program, and each year a certain percentage of that fund is spent on the on the project or the program or the program, whatever that might be. And usually it’s like 5%.

[00:19:44.09] spk_3:
Yeah, I’ve seen between, like, three and 1/2 and five okay and used to

[00:19:50.64] spk_4:
used to be higher with the With Economy tanked a few years ago, I was spending rates began to to drop

[00:19:54.26] spk_3:
right because this is the amount that you’re spending from your endowment, and your endowment is supposed to be perpetual. So when investment returns or low spend rate spend, rates come down. This is typically decided by the board or maybe a committee of the board each year and Sometimes they look at the role of the average of the past three years returns. And that’s all financial stuff like

[00:20:15.68] spk_4:
if you What’s the idea?

[00:20:23.24] spk_3:
That, yeah, I’ve just wanna just feeling a little background, so to spend rate. So the spend rate changes from year to year. That’s the point. And typically you see same like three and 1/2 to 5. Or usually it’s

[00:20:46.84] spk_4:
around around 5%. And for the purpose of the conversation, it’s It’s pretty good. So that if someone makes $100,000 gift for an endowed scholarship and the scholarship is a proxy for whatever is something that’s really important to the donor into the school or the meshing, yes, then that $100,000 is going to produce, like, $5000

[00:20:50.38] spk_3:
each year we spend each year 5005% of endowment. Okay,

[00:20:54.90] spk_4:
so that’s how that’s how the spend rate works. And the goal of every fundraiser is to go out and get that endowment gift.

[00:21:00.65] spk_3:
All right, now we got the basics. Your first killer app is the virtual endowment. What is that? Well, that sounds very jargon e Virtually we have George in jail on tony-martignetti non profit radio. Okay, but I know you’re gonna get yourself out quickly.

[00:21:47.08] spk_4:
I’ll try. Well, you take that endowment that you just talked about the $100,000 that produces $5000 a year. You turned it upside down. This sounds like the veg. A Matic I didn’t. OK, he turned it upside down. It produces the donors, is giving you the $5000 a year every every year, say, for five years or 10 years. And that is going to be treated as if it were the product of an endowment that is yet to be created. So this donor has you in their will already say, for $100,000 they’re pretty comfortable giving you $5000 a year. They’ve been doing that without even being asked for him. It was maybe for general purpose.

[00:21:51.00] spk_3:
But they’re not comfortable giving you the $100,000 that’s right during their life, or at least at this point

[00:22:04.16] spk_4:
in their life. But their pattern of giving is such that an annual giver already and they care about the organization. So at the end of the rope, the end of the chain of living and giving is that $100,000? So why

[00:22:10.56] spk_3:
just come a little closer to the mic?

[00:22:14.46] spk_4:
Okay, thank you. So who is to say that getting that $5000 every year and then getting the $100,000 later where the program becomes self sustaining? Who’s to say that that’s not just a valuable as getting the $100,000 up front

[00:22:28.33] spk_3:
right? Okay,

[00:22:29.16] spk_4:
that’s a virtual endowment. And then with when the donor passes away, the virtual endowment essentially becomes a true and down

[00:22:53.82] spk_3:
okay. Or if they have a life event that changes their circumstances and they’re able to fund their endowment fully or maybe even half of some, you know, big Big bump while they’re living, that’s great. But in the meantime, they’re giving you what you would have spent from the endowment anyway. Brilliant. It’s very simple. Not too many organizations do this, though. I think

[00:22:56.53] spk_4:
it They don’t do that often because they’re focused on having a separate annual campaign, and they’re on to maintain that base of annual donors. And they have a whole maybe either they have a whole separate division of department and a department head who focuses on annual giving and another department that focuses on major giving it another one that focuses on plan giving. And they just they don’t connect up. And they have a lot of issues about who owns the donor and speak to the donor. So and what are you doing speaking to that donor there, Not a plan giving prospect,

[00:23:44.78] spk_3:
right? So if this this donor that you’re describing ah doesn’t meet the major gift level because here she can’t afford the $100,000 outright, then they’ll go to the Maybe they’ll drop to the or be shifted over to the annual giving team or something, but they won’t think of it as a virtual endowment. They’ll just think of it is we get $5000 a year from this person, but they’re not thinking longer term. And it’s usually when that annual fund silo

[00:24:03.46] spk_4:
in the Matrix that the preferred gift in the Matrix matrix general unrestricted gifts because we know how to spend your money better than you do right, and we need it to keep our operations go.

[00:24:12.49] spk_3:
So they’re not thinking about devoting it to a purpose that might later be endowed fully. That’s right. Later in the person’s life or at their data.

[00:24:18.83] spk_4:
And if if the purpose is central to the organization, if they had that endowment and they could do anything they wanted with it, they would most likely be funding those kind of programmes anyway.

[00:24:38.89] spk_3:
Yeah, okay. Okay. Killer APS. Okay, before we get to the killer APS ah, two and three just make clear why they’re called killer APS.

[00:25:08.44] spk_4:
They’re called killer APS because, like with any kind of technology, when new technology comes on, it just sort of wipes out everything that’s come before it thes when you employ the zaps and you work with them with donors, they achieve gifts that are so much greater. The donor you were talking about who was the $5000 donor now becomes a major donor because they’re giving $5000 a year and they have $100,000 on the books. So that could be, you know, a $200,000 down or even a much larger donor. It just changes the way you think about how you how you work. You really don’t want to go back to living in that silo Once you’ve been able to span plan major on annual giving through one of these per highly personalized gifts. They really work amazingly well.

[00:25:30.44] spk_3:
Excellent. Okay, we’re gonna take a little paws much more with Steve Myers coming up. We’re gonna talk about the philanthropic mortgage and step up GIF, ts and how your solicitations are gonna change.

[00:27:01.64] spk_2:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software in the new year. Might you need accounting software? Cougar Mountain will help you organize your numbers. It’s designed from the bottom up for nonprofits. Meaning it’s built for you. For our community. Their customer service is excellent. So you know you’ve got backup if you need it. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now, time for Tony’s take 24 Must have to start your plan giving in 2020. I hope that if you’re not already kicked off with plan giving, you’re not already deep into it. That 2020 is gonna be the year you get started. I have four things that I believe you need in place before you can get started there. Simple. But you gotta have some things lined up. Thio have ah decent chance of success of this at your inaugural planned giving program. And the first of these is you have to be at least five years old so that donors are confident that your organization will live beyond them. So I like to see at least those five years of history and for the other four must have for the other three must have of the four. Check out the video. It’s at tony-martignetti dot com, and that is tony Steak, too. Now, back to personalized philanthropy. Our second entry in the Innovators, Siri’s

[00:27:11.82] spk_3:
Steve Myers never went anywhere. Took a couple sips of water. Thank you for your indulgence. Let’s talk about another killer app. The philanthropic mortgage. What you got going on there? The idea of

[00:27:47.84] spk_4:
the philanthropic mortgage seems so intuitive, but it’s something that we would never be able to think about in a highly silent and channeled environment that they call the fundraising matrix. Yeah, philanthropic mortgage. When you when you buy a house, you don’t have to pay for it in full before you move into it. You’re not. You create a mortgage. This mortgage you are paying you’re making like one payment and the payment goes partly for interests, and the other part of it goes to build equity in your in your home bills Equity principle? Yeah, yeah, building, building

[00:27:50.63] spk_3:
prints and build equity. But basically,

[00:28:50.05] spk_4:
the idea here is that you’re it’s just same ideas wth e the virtual endowment. A person can make a gift of that spending rate for the for the scholarship that they’d like to have. And so the scholarship can start up right away and then in the virtual endemic, they’re going to make slight, sort of like a balloon payment at the end of their life. They’re gonna pay it off through their request. But in the idea of a philanthropic mortgage, you can pay more than just the quote unquote interest. You could also pay a little more than the spending rate. The operating annual cost of that on that little bit extra goes to creating and building equity in your endowment fund. Beautiful. So over years over time, you could build the equity in your fund and your program can begin right away. So if you’re talking about a scholarship or a professorial chair, you get to meet that incumbent. You get to get the letters from them. You get to go and play an active part and have a relationship with the organization of the people that

[00:28:57.32] spk_3:
you’re supporting. So going back to our hypothetical before maybe that donor is giving $10,000 a year or 7500 year. 5000 is the spend rate. And then the surplus goes to start building up that endowment, which will be fully funded at some balloon payment with some balloon payment in future. That’s exactly what all right, all

[00:29:37.91] spk_4:
right. There’s an even more interesting example that relates to this up to a donor who’s maybe a little bit older and they’re going to have to. And they have an IRA Ira now that that the permanent ah charitable rollover is in effect, right? We know that it’s gonna happen all the time. We want to wait to the end of the year, and guests wait to the last minute so we could make these gifts whenever we want to. So that means if you’re working with the donor who is going to be 70 and 1/2 in the next couple of years, they’re going to start taking money out on a regular basis

[00:29:42.18] spk_3:
right that required minimum distribution

[00:30:34.95] spk_4:
wired to do that. And let’s say that they don’t need it to live. Then that could become, ah, part of the, you know, both part of the virtual endowment, and it can also be part of the little extra that they might have. So working with a donor who for the first couple of years is just paying the spending right to create a post doctor old chair in computer science because he loves that. But towards the end of the schedule, he’s going to reach the age of 17 and 1/2. He’s going to get a huge for him, at least required minimum distribution. That’s going to be his balloon payment, right? So he’s gonna pay the regular amount. And then the last year, he’s gonna receive a much larger amount from his IRA. And he’s gonna add that complete his the endowment that he writes for the post doctoral fellowship in his parent’s names.

[00:31:09.30] spk_3:
I’d like to think of the IRA now, especially because of the rollover is well, it’s actually a qualified charitable distribution, but everybody knows there’s a roll over because that’s now permanent. We might start to see, You know, Ira’s sort of become I have many foundation You can do your charitable giving through your i. R a. Have a count toward this required minimum distribution, which for a lot of people, is more than they want or need. And then you’re not You’re not text on it. You avoid the federal income tax on that, that distribution or that gift to, ah, the charity.

[00:31:22.88] spk_4:
So that only doesn’t have a value as a transaction. Because each time, as you pointed out, you don’t have to pay tax on the money that you’re giving away. You’ll never taxed on it. Essentially, you can use it strategically to grow your on pay the spending rate and the operating costs for your program. So we’re gonna begin right away,

[00:31:35.82] spk_3:
transformational and transactions. What? It’s okay. We agree. It’s not a hostile environment. You think you’re walking into a hostile environment? Yeah. Okay. Um, your final killer app is, uh, step up gift sort of a hybrid. Talk about talk about to step up.

[00:33:27.82] spk_4:
It’s a hybrid that person might be able to Ah, um this is one of those gifts that people wouldn’t think about because they would think that I could never have a professorial chair, at least not during my lifetime, because the professorial chair cost of 1,000,000 or $2 million that’s gonna be more than likely that will be in my estate. But I can’t really find a way to access that money now, however I can. I do have that $5000 that I’ve been giving every year for general purposes, and I could continue to do that for a number of years so I could start off by funding that scholarship we talked about earlier, that $100,000 scholarship that cost $5000 a year. So during my lifetime with Simon older donor, I could have that masters or other scholarship that could begin right now and then upon my death, um, the funds from my estate bequest for my estate could step up that endowment to the 1,000,000 or $2 million level. So basically my gift would step up from a master scholarship or a doctoral scholarship or a postdoctoral scholar ship all the way up to a professorial chair through my estate. Okay. And my plan would be put together so that the totality of my plane would be understood by both myself and by the charity that I’m working with from the very beginnings, right? This is a comprehensive that truly is a transformational give. It transforms from an annual gift to a major scholarship gift and to really a very substantial estate gift in there, all tied together around the same purpose, even though there are separate gifts that function for different purposes along the way. And then ultimately they all go for the same purpose.

[00:33:42.99] spk_3:
How do the killer APS and the smashing of the Matrix and the creation of a personalized philanthropy? How do these all come together to change our solicitations?

[00:35:39.14] spk_4:
That’s really a good question. I think it changes the way. First of all, it it changes the way that you think If you go back to the back to the movie The Matrix, when people see The Matrix, they sort of acquire these magical powers that could kind of see around corners and they can fly. They can defy the laws of physics because they understand the world in a in a way that was different in the way they understood it before. So if you are uh, if your practice becomes one of personalized philanthropy, you’re kind of working as an enlightened generalised. You have all the gifts, all the building blocks of philanthropy that you can bring to bear on each person wherever they are, and that’s going to change the nature of your work. You’re going to be basically sitting on the same side of the table as the donor, really an ally, ah, force to help them achieve what they want to and realize what’s what’s possible that they never would have thought was possible before by connecting all these small, modest gifts that they could make during their lifetime with the larger gifts that they could make through their estate, essentially changing the whole value change so the value can come out when they want it to come out and achieve that impact and begin to change society now. So that means that instead of just kind of being a hit and run kind of fundraiser like the annual fund people come in, I’d like to get the same thing I got last year, maybe a little bit more, and then move on to something else. Instead, you’re connected with the stoner through time. You’re not just looking at them at a point on the donor pyramid, you’re looking at their whole lifetime value as a donor and that that changes everything. The changes, the process for developing a personalized gift is much different. Thin. The solicitation of a typical asked for a regular

[00:35:59.12] spk_3:
Don’t you’re so stations. There’s gonna be more questioning and what’s important to you and what what brings you joy around the work that we do and right and more of a process than a discreet sit down. And the loser is the one who talks first after the ask is made. And then in four days there’s a follow up phone call. What are your thoughts about what we pitched very different.

[00:36:12.97] spk_4:
It’s it’s really completely, utterly.

[00:36:13.97] spk_3:
So what are some of the things that you ask about in your solicitation meetings? Well, it’s not

[00:36:25.93] spk_4:
that I ask any pursuit different questions than other fundraisers would. Just when I’m when I’m my thinking is different. I’m listening. I’m listening in a different way. And, uh

[00:36:30.34] spk_3:
So what are you doing? Let us into that neo brain. Okay, Well, what are you doing? What I’m trying

[00:37:25.54] spk_4:
to do is, I’m trying to discover what what matters to them and what I have that other fundraisers don’t have is that I have these killer APs that can connect to where the donor is so that if a donor has a habit of giving annually, I couldn’t begin to think about how might they have a greater impact by connecting all those gifts that they’re doing? If they gave for the last 10 years, $5000 a year? Chances are pretty good that they won’t be offended if we talk about. If you continue your pattern of giving, you could have a whole different kind of impact than you. Then you were having beef here, so it’s It’s a different, different tools and technology that I could use. I don’t have to sell them the math building when there are really more interested in the arts and music program. I could start with where with where they with where they’re at. Okay, so that that makes all the difference,

[00:37:32.33] spk_3:
right? Thanks for letting us into that head. We wanna when I want to be there, explicitly, even though we’re there for the hour. But it’s

[00:37:53.00] spk_4:
a good head to Bay because you you’re not just talking about donor centric donor focused giving. When you get this information, you can use it so that if a donor is ah, if they may already have included you in their estate plans, thanks a lot of donors they will that will do that without even being asked. That’s that’s where they begin. So you know that there’s going to be endowment. Possible atT. The end. Now you could begin to talk with them about connecting the current giving so that the impact of that future gift can start. Now.

[00:38:09.42] spk_3:
We have just about two minutes before break, and in those couple minutes I want you to flush out something. You talk in the book about the four Children from the Passover Seder? Yeah, just a couple minutes. How do they figure into this? The four Children who are they and what’s in there

[00:38:24.21] spk_4:
in the past, over in the past, over service. If this is part of the service that gets recited every year, so people know these names that might be familiar with him, so you could

[00:38:32.26] spk_3:
well, they think that we’re going to Passover seders. I’ve only been to one in my life, and I don’t remember the four Children.

[00:39:36.73] spk_4:
So the four Children, the Seder, are the wise, the wicked, the simple and the one who doesn’t know how to ask. So just imagine that these people have grown up and become donors and each one of them in the past, over service. The idea is to try to reach each individual, each type of Children of child where they are, um, and begin with what they are, who they are at, relate to them as individuals. Ah, and then you build out, you build out from that. So the four Children who begin to think about them as donors, you begin to focus on ah, where they’re at. If they’re wise, they might give it. That might be the kind of person who gives every year without being asked if they’re wicked. They might, uh, wicked is not. Ah, it’s not a bad term. In this case, it’s a kind of a positive thing because the person would be discerning very smart. They might have an interest in taking care of their loved ones as well. The donor, who is simple, just might begin with a bequest because as the seeds were planted before them. They will continue to plant the seeds for the future. And the donor who doesn’t have to know how to ask, is the one who has a charitable inclination but doesn’t know how to scratch that itch. So they’re the most fun to work with the ball.

[00:39:55.88] spk_3:
Beautiful. That’s great story. I kind of wish we’d ended with that, but we’re not anything but we’ll have a good ending anyway. Let’s go out for a break when we come back. Stephen, I’m gonna keep talking, talking a little about counting all these new gifts that you’re gonna be getting. Stay with us

[00:40:39.51] spk_2:
time for our last break in the new year. Might you want to build relationships with journalists who matter to you so that when news breaks and you want to be part of the public conversation, you’ve got the best shot turn to is former journalists, including for the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know how to build relationships with journalists and other media, and that’s how you get great coverage when it matters. Because you’ve got existing relationships. There are turn hyphen to dot CEO. We’ve got butt loads more time for personalized philanthropy.

[00:40:59.41] spk_3:
Okay, Steve Myers, we’re gonna have lots of new gifts coming in, and you’re pretty. You’re pretty generous about counting. You don’t seem very generous. Don’t say that in the book, but it’s between between the lines you want. You want to give as much credit as possible? Not Not surprising. Really? Um, yes. Yes, you do. Um, let’s talk about, say, I’m gonna hash. We break this down So we look at the killer APS and how they would be counted or what? You’re what? You’re counting philosophy. Generally. Let’s start there.

[00:41:11.01] spk_4:
Okay. Uh, the prime directive for me in counting is don’t just count one number.

[00:41:18.61] spk_3:
Yes. You said that explicitly. The book? Yeah.

[00:41:32.18] spk_4:
Everything in our lives. It’s the sort of damage, please. Hanging over the head of every fund raiser, its financial resource development. And, um, how much did you raise? You have to How much did you raise? What did you raise? And if

[00:41:35.53] spk_2:
you don’t have

[00:42:56.62] spk_4:
an answer for that, someone else will. It’ll be a new accounting formula financial formula that tells what the present value is of all the gifts that came in. And of course, the president value doesn’t include bequests or request expect expectancies. It doesn’t include the kind of cultivation in the activities that you d’oh. It reduces everything that comes out of the system that doesn’t not have a present value. Yeah, and as fundraisers know, there’s a lot of things that we do that that would be considered his fundraising achievements that normally don’t count. So we wanna have a way of describing what it is that we do that goes along with how we feel about what fundraising achievement actually is. So when I say don’t count just one number, what we’re really saying is there is one number that you have to be aware of it. Everybody has to know that. But there’s a complement of that one number, and it’s a multi dimensional set of numbers that can help us to measure our own effectiveness and convey to the people that we are working with and for what all this fundraising has been about. And really, there are three kinds of gifts that we we like to count outright gifts that count 100% gifts that there would be like Category one gifts,

[00:42:58.32] spk_3:
cash and cash equivalents. Call those the category one cash

[00:43:04.90] spk_4:
cash equivalents that would include pledges that air like payable over a couple of years.

[00:43:06.84] spk_3:
Legally binding. I get legally binding pledge.

[00:43:51.20] spk_4:
It’s legally binding. Pledge is okay, and legally binding pledges could include pledges that are payable over 12 or three years but also pledges for older donors that are going to be considered as bookable or irrevocable from their estates. That’s another type of ah, gift that would count in this cash or cash equivalents. The second category is the irrevocable gifts that we we raised the charitable remainder trust and gift annuities and part of the value of them would count in that one number, and the rest of the wood would not count until they were later received. And the third category is revocable gifts or or bequests that are expected but that have not yet been received.

[00:43:54.38] spk_3:
And they’re not legally binding.

[00:43:55.79] spk_4:
And they’re not. And they’re not legally because

[00:43:57.51] spk_3:
there are ways of making a bequest legally binding. If the person signed a contract to buying their estate, um, testamentary contract. Okay, so

[00:44:14.13] spk_4:
this, uh, this journey towards personalized philanthropy really began for me with this question of what am I doing here? What?

[00:44:14.85] spk_3:
I just asked that question about 1/2 an hour. Just asked. That’s a

[00:44:40.24] spk_4:
really good question. You should always be asking, What am I doing here? And if you’re on task, you’re doing something that relates to one of those kinds of gifts. You’re cultivating a donor for a future gift your culture. Get cultivating them for a gift that can provide income to them now and a gift to you later. And you’re also cultivating the firm, a gift that they could make now and that you can have now that could be both cash or it can be assets other other than cash. And that’s how you would evaluate what you’re doing in kind of a multi disciplinary way.

[00:44:49.22] spk_1:
How do you

[00:44:57.49] spk_3:
like toe? Give credit to fundraisers for activities that aren’t quantifiable, you know, advancements in a relationship. But the person didn’t increase their giving this year or pledged to in the future. You know all those activities that meaningful but non quantifiable,

[00:45:09.68] spk_4:
right? Yeah. You want to

[00:45:10.65] spk_3:
How do we help fundraisers be recognised? Well,

[00:45:42.77] spk_4:
you know, we develop metrics out of these out of these out of activities, and you try to figure out the ones that are going to be important for you, and you embrace the ones that are important for you now sometimes, um, people go way overboard on this. There was one fundraiser that I know who travels around a lot to meet with donors. And his supervisor wanted to him to quantify, um, how much, um, money per per mile he was raising. He said, Oh, no, no,

[00:45:46.45] spk_3:
I won’t do that on.

[00:45:48.10] spk_4:
He was senior enough that he was able to avoid that in another system. They wanted to know. What is this fundraiser doing? Every 15 minutes? It’s almost

[00:45:56.80] spk_3:
Oh, my God, It’s like law firms.

[00:45:57.84] spk_4:
Like a lot

[00:46:11.12] spk_3:
of booking for way. I used to book a six minute increments. All right, we just have about a minute, lad. We don’t want to do right. We do that. That’s not to do we have about a minute left? Leave us with some things that we should be measuring to give credit to fundraisers. Some examples of what you measure you like to measure

[00:46:39.89] spk_4:
well, when you, when you do these blended gifts with blended gifts come from a combination of current and future gifts. So you want to measure the gifts, all of their dimensionality, so that you could compare them to the single present value along with all the value that they’re going to bring to the organization beginning right now. So if you’re going back to the person that we were speaking of before, go

[00:46:40.25] spk_3:
ahead, you have to wrap it up.

[00:46:41.22] spk_4:
Okay, Well, uh, their gift is gonna have an immediate impact, and it’s gonna grow and scale up over time. And that’s what you want to try to achieve that, That that’s the grail of fundraising.

[00:47:12.14] spk_3:
And that’s if you want to track yet. Okay, we have to leave it there. Steve Myers, vice president, the Center for Personalized Philanthropy at the American Committee for the Weizmann Institute of Science. You’ll find him on Twitter at Steven Myers. 863 The book. Get the book. It’s personalized. Philanthropy crashed the fundraising metrics. It’s at Amazon, and it’s also a charity channel, which is the publisher

[00:47:59.44] spk_2:
next week. Our innovators, Siri’s continues with leading systems change. What did I say earlier in the show that next week would not be innovators? Siri’s? That was a mistake that definitely is the innovative Siri’s third entry, and it’ll be alive. Finally, live innovators. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com It’s still occurs to me. I need an intern to blame for these mistakes. It’s it’s unbelievable. By Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? So if you know anybody who wants to be a blamed in turn in the future, resume to tony at 20 martignetti dot com and also by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Our creative producer is

[00:49:04.47] spk_1:
Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Lieber, which is the line producer thief shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty, with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. Great voice just cracked talking alternative radio 24 hours a day, Huh?