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Nonprofit Radio for March 15, 2019: The War For Fundraising Talent

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Jason Lewis: The War For Fundraising Talent
Rapid staff turnover and high donor attrition are merely symptoms of a larger problem: You’re not treating your fundraisers right. So says Jason Lewis. He’s author of the book, “The War for Fundraising Talent.”




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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on the aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with Locke Socialism If you bit me with the idea that you missed today’s show. The war for fund-raising talent, rapid staff turnover and high donor attrition are merely symptoms of a larger problem. You’re not treating your fundraisers right? So says Jason Lewis. He’s author of the book The War for Fund-raising Talent on Tony’s Take two nineteen and TC. We’re sponsored by pursuant Full Service fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing by Wagner. CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers. Wagner’s cps dot com By Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four, four nine nine nine I can welcome Jason Lewis to the show. It’s a pleasure to do that. He’s the author of the book The War for Fund-raising Talent and How Small Shops Can Win. He’s an A F P master trainer and contrary invoice on effective fund-raising practices, hiring decisions and donor behavior. He’s at the generous life and at louis fund-raising dot com. Welcome to the show. Jason Lewis. Hi, Tony. They’re glad to be here and looking forward to our conversation this evening. Absolutely cool. Where you calling from? I am in. Ah, Salisbury, Maryland. I’ve got a client out here on the eastern Shore, and so I’m sitting in the hotel lobby of of the of the hotel. Um, yeah, they got They have happy hour there, free drinks in the lobby. While you’re mean, you know, this is Can you imbibe while you converse? No. It’s pretty quiet here this evening. I think there’s a could only be one one other gentlemen in here and he doesn’t know happy are going on here. Okay, I’m sorry. I’m sorry, because I have a strict. I have a straight up vodka in front of me, so Yeah. Yeah, I was Yeah, there’s No, I don’t I don’t even know there’s a bar over there, but I don’t think part. Okay, okay. You need to get clients in bigger. Used to get clients in bigger cities with fancier hotels. Yeah, right exactly. Way. Take the clients that are right for us. Where are you based? Um, Tony. I live in York, Pennsylvania, which is about sixty five miles north of Baltimore. And, um, I travel in and out of Baltimore for most of my client work. We’ve lived in York for almost ten years. We moved up there after I was a major gifts officer in Washington. And we want to buy our first home and suburban Maryland right outside of the district’s not not terribly, but not not not terribly good for, ah, buying your first home. So we moved to York, and we’ve been there ten years. We’re all happy there. All right, all right. And you’ve got, like, twenty years in and fund-raising, right? Yeah, I am. Okay. I’m like I’m like a lot of people that have I sort of consider myself one of maybe one of the last, um of this generation that have sort of come in through the back door. You know, my wife and I were after college. We were looking for something to do together. And we went to work for a non profit organization. And I happened upon fund-raising in the process. But yes, I’m sort of one of those typical fundraisers who came through the back door. Not very deliberately, right? Like me, I came through law, hated practising our way, engineered myself too much happier existence. What’s this? What’s this war that we’re waging for fund-raising talent? Give it. Give it. Give a given intro to this idea of war. It’s pretty inside of the incendiary little provocative. Yeah, I was. I was. I was pretty deliberate with that title. I, um some people have said that some people have said that I was Teo combative with that title, but it certainly got the attention that I was looking for. Um, you know, tell Tony to say that the the the war that I’m actually talking about in the book is not a, uh It’s not the typical talent war in the sense of who gets the hyre Tony or who gets the hyre. Jason, um, I’m actually talking about more of an ideological war, essentially two competing mindset, Um, that I think are one of them. Sort of overwhelmingly president in the nonprofit sector. And then the other being the one that I think is the, um I certainly have found to be the one that wins, um, these two competing mind sets the one is, is the organization that assumes that there fund-raising challenges. Ey’re always resolved by this constant accumulation of new donors. And presumably the new donor comes with lesser expectation on the Delaware that they are already have. Yes, and then? And then the, uh, then I think you know is you look at the organizations that are winning it’s it’s organizations that get to get beyond the point of constant accumulation of of new donors. And they realize that the donors that they already have or are the way that the way all this works and being able to balance their expectations of the donor. But what expectations they have with the expectations that you would have of them so allows, allowing those expectations toe oppcoll sort of grow over time. Eyes actually, how that works stand. You say the war for fund-raising talent will be won by those who can combine a highest standard of professionalism with an organizational culture that thrives on meaningful engagement and meaningful engagement. Talking about engagement with the professional fundraiser, right? Yeah. I mean, you’ve got it. You’ve got it? Yeah, I mean, you’ve got to create a culture where that Aye, that development officer can thrive where they want to show up for work on Monday morning and enjoy their work. Yes. And then you’ve got to create a you’ve got to create a culture where that development officer can can be expected. Not that where that development officer can be expected to, you know, call on your existing donors and occasionally knock on their doors or meet them for coffee or what have you. And so instead of, instead of avoiding that meaningful engagement, they they’ve actually got to see that as an essential part of it. Yeah, on DH, we’ll have time to work our way into this, of course, because we have the hour together. But, you know, I pick something from the middle, the book. You know, I felt like there was a central thesis Who’s going toe? Who’s going to win this? It’s not really a culture war, but it was going to win. This war of ah, of ideas is really what we’re talking about. Um, you’ve got you. So as we back away from a little bit, you’ve got some concern about drifting away from our mission and the impact that that can have on fundraisers. A CZ. They’re pursuing major donors. And you call it Mission Drift. I think I would even call it Mission Hijack. What’s your What’s your concern there? Well, So, Tony, when you say that mention mission, let me clarify what you mean when you say mission hijack the meaning, the donor that wealthy that concentration of attention to wealthy donors can can, if in organizations not careful, allow it to embark on programs that aren’t court to its mission Because those where the wealthy donors interests lie. And in fact, I got it. I got to take our first break, Jason. So is that that makes him you know, where you know where headed now? Yeah. Yeah. I don’t want to make sure that when I responded to the question that I answered it, OK? I mean, I’m going with that, Okay? Exactly. I’m calling it Mission Hijack. You don’t You’re not that extreme. Surprisingly, because you’re the you’re the incendiary guy, but you backed off a little bit. Okay? All right. Allow me to take take this first break. Pursuing their newest free book is the Art of First Impressions. It’s all about Donorsearch acquisition. To attract new donors, you need to make a smashing first impression. Now, Jason and I are talking about some things that will hopefully help you not have to acquire new donors year after year after year. But to the extent you do have to be involved in donorsearch precision, uh, this e book will help you guiding principles for acquisition. Howto identify your unique value. It’s got some creative tips, and you will find it on the listener landing page. Tony Dahna. I’m a slash pursuant. Remember that capital P for, please. All right, let’s go back to the war for fund-raising talent. Okay, Jason s o What’s your concern around this? What you call Drift, I call hijack? Yeah, I think I think in the nonprofit sector there there is a lot of fear. There is a lot of fear that if we build relationships with major donors, wealthy people, that they will, you know, cause us or persuade us or require of us, hijack our mission, and they’ll expect us to, um, you know, go in the direction that we don’t want to go. But, um, what the argument that I’m making is that any relationship that is imbalanced, any any relationship? You know, Tony, you and I, you know, we develop a friendship and say, for example, you know, I’m on your podcast. You’re on mine and if one of us, uh, if one of us takes that relationship in a direction where the X where my where my expectations of you and your expectations of me or out of balance one of us is going to use words like drift or Ah, hi, Judge. I know he hijacked the relationship, and he took in the direction I didn’t want to go. And I think that’s actually what’s happening more often than not in the non-profit spaces. We don’t know how to. I don’t think it’s the donors that are out there hijacking our missions. I think it’s the organizations that our, uh, have have, quite frankly not learned how to have a balanced peer-to-peer relationship with their major donors. Um the fear the fear of mission drift or mission hijack actually can be very quickly resolved by simply having a appear relationship with a donor where the donor ask you to do something you don’t want to do. You have to have the confidence to tell him or no. And we haven’t gotten not enough of us who are out there trying to raise significant funds, especially in the smaller shops. Um, haven’t developed that confident Yeah, yeah. And I You know, I think that feeds back to the scarcity, the scarcity mindset, which, in this case, you know, I always called him scarcity Mindset. You go, You take the more incendiary and you call the scarcity lie. You know, it’s the I think what you’re describing feeds from that’s scarcity lie that we don’t have enough donors, so we can’t upset any of them. Oh, yeah. I mean, we we, um non-profit organizations are so shoot, we’re so you know, those of us who choose to start a prop up a non profit organization and we want to change the world were very oriented towards the people that we serve not poor, not towards the people that enable us to do the serving. And so we’re very comfortable, you know, spending time with children or patients or whomever, you know, homeless people that need to be bed or whatever does organizations doing. But we haven’t developed a confident sitting across the table from somebody who in many cases, has, you know, more wealth. And a lot of us will ever know if our monetary well, thousands and thousands of times over. Yeah, yeah, but But until you develop that that confidence to sit across the table from that individual and not allow his his or her monetary wealth, and similarly not allow your you know your mission in vision of the organization, neither one of them to sort of overpower, overwhelmed the relationship and say, Okay, we’re going to meet here. We’ll have a mutually satisfying relationship. Um, you know the same words I mean, I think I think it’s terrible that some of the language that we use nowadays to describe what we think donors air out there capable or willing or desirous of doing it’s the same language that it It’s just it’s just the language that we would attribute to any dysfunctional relationship. Um, but dysfunctional relationships generally here to a street. Yeah, we oftentimes get into a pattern of behavior where we’re enabling and allowing that person to behave that way. And we’ve got to change that. But But But my point is that that that fear of making that change that you’re now describing comes from the scarcity lie that we haven’t got enough donors, so we can’t piss any of them off. I’m well, yeah, absolutely. Well, Tony. So what, They’re Yeah, they’re there. If you never If you got one hundred names on a mail, you know we’ve got these databases. We love our databases. So if you’ve got a hundred names in your database, um, most of us have been a multiple upon multiples. Mohr. And you never sit across the table from them. You never learned that. They are that they’re not broke. You never learned that they’re not that the three sources aren’t scared, right? Well, that you have you. Yeah, Yeah, that’s on. That goes that goes to your concern about too much arm’s length fund-raising which we’re goingto get, we’ll get to, uh, yeah. Okay. I just s Oh, yeah. Yes, of course. You want the keys? There was a lot of wasted syllables. Uh, What? Yes, of course you want it. You do want a balanced relationship, and you want to relieve yourself, Shed yourself of the the scarcity lie that there isn’t enough to go around. You don’t have enough to survive so that everyone needs to. Every donor needs to be placated and never ruffled or troubled or or disagreed with that. Because Because then you’ll always then you then you are at risk for the the mission hijack or the mission drift that that that we’re talking about. And and that’ll be particularly unsatisfying. Going back to your thesis about fund-raising. That’ll be unsatisfying to your front. Your professional fundraisers. Because they’re always coming at this from an obsequious position. Hoo! That’s a big word. Explain that we’re that I don’t know. I don’t know what the hell it means I saw it. It was word of the day a couple days ago. No, it’s Ah, it’s that you’re It’s a fawning, ah, forming attentiveness, your falling over yourself to be kind and and, you know, attentive and complimentary of the person that’s an obsequious itt’s pajarito. It’s bad. I know. You know what? I’m sorry. I’m just good to finding everywhere. Yeah, it’s a majority on You don’t want your fundraisers thinking that way. I don’t think I tend to think, and I didn’t I didn’t hammer this message too heavy in the book, but I think you’ve got a lot of non-profit organizations out there that are being run by people that, quite frankly, have control issues. Um, and you know, if I’m in a room with these folks, often times I’m I’m I’m pretty forward about saying, you know, we’ve got a lot of non profit organizations that are being run by control freaks, and they don’t know how to relinquish that sense of control. That oftentimes is not unreasonable. You know, if the donor wants to paint the wall pink and you want to paint it purple, you know, we need to ask ourselves if if we were, If if our mission statement really was all about whether or not we painted the wall pink or purple or if it had, you know, if what we’re aiming for was much more significant than that. And, um so I don’t think we’re I think you’ve got more organizations out there that are being run by people who want control, not by people who want to change the world. And And that’s what you know. I don’t know, impact control a whole lot in the book, but that’s essentially what I think it comes down to is you’ve got a lot of control freaks out there that Yeah, you know, and the possibility that a donor will come in and say, Hey, let’s do it this way Really freaks out a person who wants to maintain control. Well, don’t hold out hope. Don’t hold back on non-profit radio Listeners weaken. They can take straight talk. So you can if you if you didn’t want to go into it in the book. Maybe that’s your second book. I’m sure that’ll be your your follow-up book about control and maybe even sometimes founder. You know that Founder, founder misery. But any case now, probably radio listeners could take you straight. In fact, you devote a whole you’ve got a whole chapter. We don’t have a lot of you don’t. I don’t feel like we’re going to have time to go into this, but because people just have to buy the book. I mean, the book is the war for fund-raising talent. It’s on Amazon. You’ve just got to get it. But you have a whole You have a hole. You agree with that? Are you agree with that premise? You gotta buy the book. You know, You know, you have no trouble with that, do you? Okay. Yeah. Chapter hounded by charities. You know, where you talk about cheap and low risk and shallow, you know that? That type of fund-raising and I think it. I think it’s fed by the scarcity mindset. You know, we got to go after every nickel. So So with that sort of, with that chapter in mind, but that hounded, you know, and that sort of transactional, you know that transactional fund-raising? Well, yeah, yeah. So if I was rewriting the book and I was and you were coaching the tony on how to write this thing. And I was talking to an audience you’re doing Now forget about it. Forget about it. You may as well do a comic book. Sorry to the comic book collectors who think there’s a graphic novels and they’re not graphic novels. If it’s got pictures, it’s a comic book. I don’t care if it’s hard covered with four hundred pages. That’s a comic book. Okay, get that graphic novel nonsense out of your head. Okay, I’m sorry. Like minor digression. In any case, your book is doomed if you got me coaching you. But if you want to follow that hypothetical go ahead. Yeah, I mean, if if you if I was looking at that particular chapter, I tell the Olive cooked the story of olive cook in the United Kingdom who jumped off of a bridge and jump stur during tragic death. And she was probably more than likely she was depressed and had other mental illness. Uh uh, that that precipitated that. But the press decided that it was it was direct mail to blame. And and and I don’t and I don’t think that for a minute that the direct mail is necessarily what what caused this woman Tio to commit suicide. But what I do think is that I don’t think that direct mail. I don’t think that the charities that were, um, overwhelming her mailbox contributed to a meaningful life for this woman. Um, I think they could have been. I think they and you know, the I think the charitable organizations that were hounding her as the as the press said, I could have recognize that this woman was reaching out to charitable organizations and contributing to them and trying to enhance our quality of life. But instead we have turned it into we have turned a lot of fund-raising practice into a machine, and all it cook just becomes sort of the ultimate miserable example of sort of what happens when the machine just goes, You know, out of control. I wantto way I want it back a little bit for listeners. So Olive Cook story, I think. Twenty, fourteen. Jason twenty, twenty, fifteen. The woman was getting lots of emails. All stations. Fifty seven fifty, sixty a day or something or forty fifty letters a day. And she was a middle income woman, and she was overwhelmed and she killed herself. She jumped off a cliff into a gorge. She lived in the UK and like like Jason just said, the press decided that that was because she was overwhelmed by charitable solicitations. And, you know, that’s certainly open to a lot of AA AA lot of argument. But in case I just want to backfill the story, so But it’s so Okay, so with that now we understand that I want to get to My question is, um, do we need to do what? What? What would it look like if if a non-profit that was doing a lot of this transactional, as you say, You know, shallow fund-raising. Andi. Just about all non-profits do. But suppose they recognize that their they, like they can never convert, or they hardly ever convert these transactional ten, fifteen, twenty, maybe even fifty hundred dollar gift. They never convert them to more to major gif ts or to what you call, you know, significant gifts. But even just getting two major gifts. What if they abandoned that transactional practice? Suppose they just stopped and devoted, though that time and money two major gift fund-raising. What do you think that what you think that would fly in an organization? What do you think that would look like? I mean, is it feasible to just abandon the transactional and put those resources toward Major E-giving? Hyre? I don’t I don’t know if that’s the question, whether or not it’s feasible. There’s plenty of organizations that have done the analysis, Tony, that says that if they removed thirty percent of their file, it wouldn’t. It wouldn’t change the outcome if if if they just I’ve got a friend of mine who’s in direct response and he’s done. He’s done the analysis on these huge databases, and there’s there’s a segment, you know? What portion of what segment of your database are you mailing to that if you just stopped feeling? Um and I think it’s a very valid question, But any enterprise in a non-profit or for-profit enterprise, fellows to them now. Jason, Jake, Jason, we need you to call back. I’m going to take a break. Jason, I hope you can hear me. Jason, give you give a call back, please call the studio back. Okay? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Lost him. But we’ll get him right back. It happens this is, uh, you know, it’s live, although it’s it’s not live were pre recorded, but we don’t have it. That’s what you know that you What you know is that we don’t edit, so we’ll take a break break cracking like I’m fourteen. Ah, and we’ll take that break for Wagner. CPS, so enough. Yeah, I’ve done the archive Webinar. Okay, we’re done with that now. Well, you see, Piela they’re accountants, right? Do you need help with your nine ninety this year? You’re looking for a new audit firm. Patronise a non-profit radio sponsors. How about that? Look at them. Check out Wagner’s site and then call them up. Talk to that partner. Yeah, Huge tomb. Alright. See if they can help you out. I’d be grateful they’d be grateful. Weinger cps dot com Now let’s go into Tony’s. Take two. And we’ll just do this a little bit early because we had that little glitch on DH Tony Tony steak too. So now this time and I’m at non-profit rate, I am non-profit radio are ah non-profit radio is our show. I’m not the non-profit technology conference and T C nineteen ninety sea right now. Not it’s not now for me, it’s going to be then for me. I’ll be there then. But it’s now for you. When that comes, then, Because when I’m there, then you’ll be here. Now, here with me. But not here with me. There. You’ll be here with me. Then you might be here then. But you wouldn’t be with me unless you happen to be in booths five o eight and five. Ten at the convention center in Portland, Oregon. So if you’re not there, then there. Then you wouldn’t be with me then. But you can be with me now. Here, when I’m here with you. Right here. I’ll be here then for you now, like I always am. Right? And I want to thank ActBlue for sponsoring Non-profit radio at NTC. They’re doing it now and then here and there. And you know them for their three billion dollars in small donations, get to know them for small dollar donations for your organization. And you could check out our non-profit, your sponsor at tony dot M a slash actblue. And that is Tony’s. Take two. Now let’s get back to Jason Lewis. The war for Fund-raising talent. Jason, you back with us. I am sorry we lost. Okay? Yeah, Yeah, it happens. I don’t know that the hotel lobby have some commotion like that Happy hour start or something? I don’t know, but I’m made sure to turn on something. Snapped some part of my phone to make sure that maybe that doesn’t happen again. Okay. Okay. Well, you would know if you would know if Happy hour started around you, wouldn’t you? Oh, yeah. That has guarded. It is still the same. Lonely. I don’t know how many of your listeners have ever been to Salisbury, Maryland, but it’s a quiet little town that’s about fifty miles from the promotion city, Maryland, and not a lot happening. And OK, down. I can tell you that the tourism from Ocean City has not bled over, but it also does not. But I do know people make money here. There are people here who make money over there. So, uh, there might be a few fundraisers who come through here on occasion. Here. There. When? When you’re there with them here, then? Yeah. If you’re in real estate. Not now. If you live in Salisbury, Maryland, chances are you’re in real estate. You know, oceanfront, real estate, condos, rental units, that sort of stuff. So yeah, okay, But we were talking about that. That transactional fund-raising what that would look like if you abandon that, and what you were starting to get to is a CZ. You said, You know, if you took a third of your file perhaps and stopped soliciting them by by these transactional methods, there wouldn’t be much loss or any loss. And it might actually be a gain if you move those resources into the more high dollar major e-giving. And I’ve seen something like that from a guest ahead on recently. Curtis Bingham. When I saw him live, there was there was a segment of small dollar transactions that that that’s a very large company. Hundreds of thousands of customers. So they had a large data file. Was it was able to purge and and actually profited by reallocating resources away from. So I’m just wondering, you know what? That what that would look like. I mean, it would be It would be radical, I think, for a lot of organizations. Well, if you get if you get if you sort of loop back to what I’m talking about about their sense of control. You know, arm’s length fund-raising cheap, shallow, arms linked fund-raising is not about raising significant dollars. It’s about maintaining a sense of control. And it is avoiding that fear that you started with, you know, in a few minutes ago, The idea that if we let the stone or come into we let too many donors get too close to the mission, they might tell us to do something we don’t want to do. So, um, I think there’s I think, if we really got, I think if we really wrestled with, some of us would find out that the reason that we maintain these cheap, shallow relationships with our donors has less to do with whether or not they can actually give us more money or not. But because it maintains that sense of control. If we took a third, it’s just hypothetically, just just sort of cat. You know, put your put your put any organizations donors in the three categories. There’s the third that they’re not going to make any money on, and they’re better off not mailing to them at all. There’s the third that on the other end of the spectrum that there they don’t have to mail, too, and they get very significant gifts from and and the margins on what they invest in. Those donors are huge. I think there’s plenty of opportunity and enough of our organization’s today with this metal category of donors that says if we’ll invest, if if will invest in more meaningful relationships with these people, weaken. Therefore, raise our expectation of these individuals and expect them to give Mohr more meaningful contributions. Yeah, that’s where I think it’s that middle category of donor um, that, I think is both the opportunity. But it is also the the change agent, if you will, that would revolutionise the way a lot of organizations raised funds, because if all of a sudden I’ve got a middle, if I’ve got what we would tip, typically call sort of a mid level donor if all of a sudden I’m engaging them in more meaningful ways, they’re not writing these extraordinary gifts. You know, they’re not writing huge six and seven figure gifts, but they’re writing checks that, you know when you bunch them together with, You know, twenty five other people. It’s a pretty big deal. But tow have those people now engaged in the organization in a way that’s more meaningful is a different type of organization. Let’s eso let’s talk about how to treat some of those that middle third that you describe. You say you say we gonna learn a lot from e harmony. Yeah. Okay. Tell us so and you know it. Right? And, Tony, I’m really grateful that you read the book because, well, what the hell? Oh, my God. I do. Most people not what? How would I have a conversation with an author if I don’t read it? But I know I totally You know what, Tony? I think I’ve done. I don’t know, probably a dozen of these interviews. And nobody’s mentioned the harmony. So a man? Yeah. I mean, it’s it caught my eye because my wife and I are having trouble. So I I’ve been checking out myself, so I have some personal interest in it as well. So, yes, that all its not all altruistic. Non-profit hyre fine. Well, were not. I’m not in the harmony. Let’s just leave it at that. Let’s not overstate the brilliant Tony, the brilliant behind our harmony. What about them? A Harmony is has has has an algorithm, has a model. They got a business model that says we don’t want people using our system that want cheap, shallow, one night stand relationships with the people that they’re dating that we want to, so that they’re using the same platform that any other you know, Essentially, they’re providing the same dating platform that any other organisms in the other dating service would. But but they were using such an algorithm that requires that the person they raised, the expectation they have a high bar. They have a high bar to have my heart hyre Barda entry. Yeah. Yeah. So the point of entry in getting into the system is much higher than then. You know, the average Joe guy who’s going in and looking for you because I mean, the application I filled out. I mean, the application that you have to fill out is long, and it’s intended to prove that you are looking for a serious relationship, not just dating and sleeping around, which is why I abandoned. But, I mean, I would abandon if I if I if you ever ever had, because, uh, you know, coming out of a marriage. Well, all right, let’s let’s just drop that. Um Okay. So what’s the analog to fund-raising? Well, so both both the both the harmonies of the world and all the other dating websites are using technology to essentially draw in and engage with their customers with their perspective customers, in our case, with perspective donors. And there’s no reason why we have to, as a nonprofit organization, assume that there’s not ways too raised the bar and set the expectation hyre rather than just make it, um, brother than lower the bar. Okay, So what does that? What does that look like? Give us some examples of raising the bar as you’re dealing with this, this middle tier of donors and you’re trying to upgrade them. Most of my clients. Most of my clients are hearing from me that the donor, the donor who makes the initial gift, needs to be receptive to a to a thank you call and a first time needing so any time, um to ah, to ah, an in person meeting. And and And so if Tony, if you sent one hundred dollars on giving Tuesday back in November to my charity one of my clients, you’re going to receive a thank you call from that charitable organization and they’re going to allocate somebody’s time to sit down with you. Um, acknowledged that gift and begin to set the expectation that if if you’re going to be one of our donors, we’re going to expect more than that hundred dollars of you every year. But in return, we’re going toe. You know, we’re going to do things like we’re going to sit down and occasionally have a cup of coffee with you, Okay? And and if you say in the book, you quote Jerry Panis in the book, saying, eighty percent of the, uh, the work of non-profit fundraisers is getting that first meeting. So So you also like that? Are you telling your class, then? For the for the ones who won’t sit down after the hundred dollar gift? We’re not goingto you know where we won’t be spending personal time with them anymore, right? That’s exactly right. I disagreeing. I’m just I’m just trying to flush you out at that. That’s an example of how you would begin to discern. So all of my clients use what I referred Teo three lanes. And if you’re if you’re a donor who’s going Teo, be duitz. If if If you’re a donor, who’s going to be expected of, um you know, five times, five times what? That initial gift wass you, Khun, you, Khun, therefore expect us to similarly invest in that relationship. And Gerald Panis is, you know that he he told that to. He pointed that out to a lot of us, and I don’t know why we have not sort of taken that same logic and used it as a way to sort of test who these people are that we’re interacting with. Uh, you know, after that, initial gifted, the person will not sit down with you for a cup of coffee and talk about why your organization is of interest to them. Um, where that relationships going to go long term is seems very sceptical to may. Okay, so then, in that case, we will just continue to accept the person’s hundred dollar gift per year. I guess. Obviously, we’ll send thank you notes, but we’re not going to get well, send standard. Thank you’s your your advice would be, um, I getting this right, But but we wouldn’t. Wouldn’t be calling the person to say thank you. You after year, we’re going to move on to find people who will sit down with us after they’re They’re one hundred dollar gift. Is that Do I have that right? Yeah. Yeah, I got into a conversation with someone the other day. That was sort of along this line. Of what? So what do you do with that individual who sends you a hundred dollars on giving Tuesday? Refuses tto have that cup of coffee. Do you, you know, is that if that person completely ignored from there, you know, what do they do? They do. They now occupy a spot on your database or don’t pay, and and you continue to mail to them. I I tend to be more extreme in my in my encouragements. And I say, Look, you know, if if if if a subsequent that person’s names on your database within six months if you’re not getting a subsequent gift from that person, I think you need to allow the science of fund-raising to sort of work in your favor. And you need to sort of say, this person’s really probably not going anywhere with us. And they’re occupying a spot on our database in such a way that’s going to constantly convince us that there’s opportunity there when it’s not there. Um, and so what do you do? As a result? What? Let’s get drill down to the nitty gritty of this. What do you do with the person you’re staying? You stop inhaling. Yeah. I’m not selling to that person any more than okay, like a custom cannot nailing to that person anymore. Not even to Mom. Not even to maintain their hundred dollars. Well, the thing about that hundred dollars is that hundred dollars. It is the same that is in and of itself what I’m talking about with new act with arms linked fund-raising. The organization is convincing itself that that that’s the way that fund-raising works, and so I’m not only trying to raise more money, but I’m also trying to combat these assumptions as to how this works, if used. If you continue to spend money, be it a little or being a lot of money every year to renew that hundred dollars, That’s one hundred dollars that I can’t spend to pay somebody to go and have that cup of coffee with somebody. Um, and find out that someone else who did give on giving Tuesday and will sit down for a cup of coffee will agree to give five times as much money. Okay, wait, we gotta look confused. We’re not. We’re not spending a hundred dollars to get a hundred, but whatever we are spending, you wantto allocate that elsewhere. I do. Right? I’m trying to get people to to do best. You know you’re going to reduce their investment in new acquisition and anything that looks like new acquisition and reinvest it in. And because a lot of people will say to me when I’m making this case, they’re going to say to me, Jason, we can’t afford to send people out to have cups of coffee for five hundred dollars gifts. And in my pushback on, that is Well, of course, you can’t not on the model that you have now that is dependent on, you know, extort, maintaining extraordinary volumes with relationships that don’t yield types of support you want to get. But when you changed the economics, it becomes much less. Because it becomes a much less scary, uh, proposal. When you when you start, when you start to see donors, you can see this. You see this play out when when organizations start taking donors out the lunch when they start having coffee conversations in these donorsearch art, giving five and ten times as much they gave that first time the light goes on in their head and they realised, OK, this how this works. Okay, hold hold there. I got to take another break. Sure, tell us. This is the long stream of passive revenue. You get half the fee when tell those processes. Credit card transactions for companies that you refer. It’s perfect for small organizations that need more revenue. Revenue. Diversity Red. This is revenue you don’t have to work for each month each year like Jason hyre talking about. It’s passive. Watch the video, then send companies to watch and make your ask. Go to Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s I Want to do the live Listener Love. As I had said, We’re not live here. I’m at NTC. Let’s not Let’s not rehash that that morass again. But the live love goes out for the people who are listening live. Thank you. I’m glad you’re with us on the podcast. Pleasantries to the over thirteen thousand listeners in the time shift pleasantries to you. I’m grateful that you are with us. Now. Let’s go back to Jason Lewis. Okay. Anything more? You wanted Teo say about the shifting economics? The reallocation of resource is, um the abandonment of of donors that look tantalizing, but they’re never really going to come. They’re never going to come around. So, yeah, the only thing the only thing I would point out again, I just something that I don’t unpack in great detail in the book. But I want us to pay it. I want any anyone who’s reading my book, but I do want them. Tio, keep in mind that that hundred dollar gift that we’re talking about. So you’re you’re begging the question. Okay, What do we do about that hundred dollars gift that will not convert to a lunch table conversation into a larger gift? The reality is that more and more non-profit organizations are going to be enlisting the help of outside. You know, vendors outsource sort of solutions that they can largely be executed via technology, and they’re not gonna be employing full time fundraisers to just to maintain that hundred dollars gift. And so part of what I’m pushing back on in the book is the definition of what fund-raising talent is. And I’m saying that if the donor when you get the one hundred dollars on giving Tuesday, um, your ability is a fundraiser to pick up the phone and ask for that gift, that’s where the job start, not where it wraps up and we’re not. I don’t think you’re going to see non-profit organizations in the same numbers that we historically have be paying fund-raising professionals to acquire these first gifts. There’s no, there’s no necessity for that. We can outsource that. We can rely on technology to do that. And anything that technology and in an outsourcing solution can’t do, Um, can be accomplished with volunteers. Wait. Don’t need to pay fundraisers to secure initial gifts. Volunteers or technology. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I wanna make I wanna make one thing clear. I don’t beg II. Just ask. I’m not begging. Okay. Um, you talk about you wanna spend some time on deliberate practice for fundraisers and, uh, by my count. You got four different for maybe five include the include the list, right? Include the last five deliberate the river practices that you want to see fundraisers engaging because you feel again You know, I’m summarizing I’m not giving you a chance to flesh out everything because you tend to be allover boast So I I can’t I can’t spend time everything that you have. But you’re the author too, so I don’t blame you. You know, I’ve never written a book, so I just talk, You know, it’s just it’s just, uh a different medium, but yeah. So, you know, you you, uh you don’t feel that experience in it is experience in and of itself creates good fund-raising, which which, I mean, I think that’s got some intellectual or some some some some appeal that’s intuitive as well. Just because you’ve been doing something for thirty years doesn’t mean you do it. Well, you could be very mediocre and lackluster for thirty years. Maybe you got better. But that still doesn’t mean you’re you know, you’re at the peak of your game or he thinks, Oh, so you like to see instead of just experience, Uh, you like you like fundraisers to engage in these deliberate practices. You, uh, you want to kick off with What? A deliberate practice. That’s your favorite? Yeah. The one of the deliberate practices that I use. I’ve scored the most points with when I’m trying to train up development officers with my clients. Is this concept of two weeks out? And and what that means is that when you pick up the phone so this same scenario that I was talking about, what with the coffee after giving Tuesday, um, you schedule all your meetings two weeks out. So if I called you up, Tony and said, um, you know, thank you for the contribution you made on giving Tuesday. Can we get together for a cup of coffee? I don’t allow my clients to schedule that needing any sooner than two weeks out on their schedule. Yeah. Yeah. And the reason I’m doing that is because I’m trying to get the donor to signal to the organization that they are, in fact, a priority for the organization. And therefore we will put I will put you on my calendar, and I will. I will give you that spot on my calendar two weeks out. Kind of like you and I. We scheduled this, uh, this interview here, you signaled to me that I was important to you. And so you put me on your schedule, and that signals a heightened level of, you know, equality in the relationship that had we not scheduled it. Um, you know, if you would have just sort of reached out yesterday and said, Hey, can you get together? Six O’Clock. That would have signalled something very different. And I think that’s what’s happening with a lot of the way that development officers interact with their donors, is there not? They’re not raising the bar. They’re not raising the expectation of saying, hey, make me a priority in your schedule. Um, and consequently if if that happens, you’re going to also become a quality. You know, you’re going to become a priority, and they’re giving. Okay, So So you say even even if even if the sounds like somebody’s checking in checking in xero noisy group chaillou busload just come in to check in for the night or something. Maybe they’re there. Maybe they’re on their way to Ocean City. All right. Okay. Um, but you. You make the point. Even if s o, I call someone’s made a hundred dollars gift I call and the donor the donor says, Yeah, yeah, I’ve got I’ve got space on my calendar. We could we could do it on, uh, we could do with this Friday. Yeah. Yeah. You want to turn that? You want me to turn that down? I do. I want you to turn that down because I’m trying to train up your patterns and habits, and I’m trying to get a read. I’m trying to get a signal from the donor as to whether or not you’re truly a priority for them. Um, and so I want you to stay to them. No, I can’t do that. Um, one of things. A new development. A new development officer who’s just starting out. He or she will generally answer that question. And if you say I could get together this Friday, once you come on over, you know, development offices, that development officer that’s not all that busy would say. Sure, I can do that. Yeah, but our ability to maintain most of my development officers are hearing for me that I want fifteen to twenty meetings a month. You’re not going to get into the habit of successfully scheduling fifteen to twenty meetings a month if you’re not scheduling them two weeks out. And so you have to start setting yourself up now for what? You anticipate your schedule look like? Um okay, I don’t Okay? I don’t understand that. I don’t understand your premise. How come? Are you all right? We gotta take a break. So I’m going there on here. Can you hear me? Yeah. Okay. Uh, we take a break, but I’m goingto I’m challenging something. I don’t understand your premise. You just said you’re not gonna be able to schedule fifteen to twenty meetings a month if you’re if you’re not scheduling them two more. Two more weeks out. Okay? I don’t understand. I don’t understand that premise, but we’re gonna take a break, and then I’ll let you go. You respond? Yep. Our last break text to give diversify your revenue by adding mobile. Giving another another revenue. Diverse afire. Mobile giving. Not only for disasters. You can build relationships by text. Where was Jason? Just talking about using technology. You see how this fits together to not happen. Stance As much a cz Many times I tell you, I feel like a taste. My mother still doesn’t believe it. Um, I should use my my dad is the example. So I’m like, my dad still doesn’t believe it. You can’t build relationships by technology and by text. You’re doing it all the time with family and friends. Do it with donors. You can learn how, by the five party male, many course. It dispels misconceptions and explains how to get started. Build relationships through technology, see how it fits together. Text NPR to four, four, four nine nine, nine. We’ve got several more minutes left for the war for fund-raising talent. Okay. Jason Lewis. So, um, yeah, I don’t understand your premise. What? Well, how come I can’t schedule fifteen to twenty if I if I do use the intervening two weeks from from when I’m making calls. Yeah. So I want the development officer to get into a habit of scheduling all of his or her meetings two weeks out so that he or she can maximize his or her time. Um, and, you know, have the advantage of time to do that. Scheduling it’s what I’m trying to get you to avoid is a tear. Any of the urgent? So a lot of develop a lot of non-profit two years of any sort are running around putting fires out all the time, Um, because they’re allowing the tyranny of the urgent to sort of overwhelmed them. And I don’t want that, too to factor into your fund-raising practices anymore than I want that to factor in anywhere else. Um, so I’m both trying tio to coach the development officer in his or her management of their time, And I’m also trying to ensure that the donor is signaling back to you that you’re a priority for them. And that’s what this particular deliberate practice does is that it signals, um it also signals to the development. I mean, it’s signals to the donor. Yes. I called you up here with the donor. If you’re the donor and I call you up. And I said, Can we get together? And you say, Come on over tomorrow and I say, No, I can’t do that. I’m busy. That also signals to you that I’m a busy guy and that my time is important. Um, and okay, okay. I get your Yeah. All right. All right. So there’s some, uh, little bit of scarcity. You know, my time is important. Uh, it’s and it’s already booked, so Okay. All right. And he’s not your only you understand. That’s not your only you know that. That’s not loose back all the way back to where we started at the beginning of the conversation. I mean, if we’re constantly in this sort of this here inferior spot, Um, you know, we’re always in this sort of begging posture allowing the donor to sort of do whatever they say we’re going to do, um, whether it be on the schedule or what we do with their money? Um, yeah. Okay. Let’s talk about another deliberate practice we got. We got five of them. Yes. Go ahead. You name one. Then I’ll pick one after you go ahead or the last one. The last one, I think, is the one that tends to push my development officers the most. And that is that you always ask in person, and you follow-up on paper. And what that means is so Earlier this week, I was in Texas with one of my clients and I’m coaching the gentleman on on how to solicit gifts. And And I’m insisting that first you asked the donor for this gift in person, and then you be prepared when you return to the office. If you haven’t already drafted this letter, you re articulate exactly what was, uh, what what was requested. And you put it back and you put it in the mail so that the donor receives that essentially the same request in written form. What that does it does. It does a couple of things, um, the first thing that it does that ensures that the person who’s, uh, making the solicitation in person, it ensures that they’re speaking very explicitly that they’re not sort of beating around the bush with whatever they’re asking for because they know that there’s a letter back it back at the office. It’s going to get written that’s going to state everything explicitly, um, and written out as well. The other thing that it does that create sort of AA closing of the, uh uh, the the oversight loop, if you will. The way in which development officers air over the way in which there e-giving oversight from their supervisors this letter, this letter that goes out to Mr Mrs Smith, it says thank you for meeting with me. I hope you’ll you know, if you give consideration to the gift of ex, whatever I asked you for, close that loop with the supervisor cubine carbon copy the supervisor on this loop and it essentially signals to the developer to the boss to the managing to the over the manager is that you’re essentially doing your job. Um, one of the things I critique development officers all the time for doing is we think that they’re paid. We the non-profits think that these people are paid to raise money. They’re not actually paid to raise money. They’re paid to ask for money, but we don’t give any way. For our supervisors are boards and bosses to ever see that they’re raised that they’re asking for money. So this is just one of those ways that we can demonstrate that we’re going, you know, full circle that from the point at which we, you know, acknowledged the first gift to the point at which we asked for a very significant gift. That’s what you’re getting paid for. You’re not getting paid for. Ah, guaranteeing that that person turns around, writes a check that’s not within your control. Okay, Jason. Unbelievably, we have to leave it there. We did not get to the full five delivered practices which are assigned list. You should have one hundred fifty. No more than fifty and meaningful conversations are. That’s a good one. Meaningful conversations you’ve got. You’ve got to get the book. You know, you don’t want to have these shallow conversations on DH. Subsequent meetings should be in teams. Those of the three that we didn’t get to the book is the war for fund-raising talent. You’ll find that Amazon, you’ll find Jason Lewis. He’s all around, Let’s see. But specifically, you’ll find him at the generous life and that louis fund-raising dot com. Jason, thank you so much. Thank you. Tony has been great for my pleasure. Thank you. And thank you for putting me at the top of the other ten or twelve podcasts that did not ask about harmony. No slackers. Slackers like lost a lackluster, lackluster podcasters. Okay, next week, talk about lackluster. I don’t know. I don’t know what next week’s show is going to be. If you missed any part of today’s show. I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuant Capital P by Wagner CPAs. Guiding you Beyond the numbers records cps dot com By Tello’s Credit card and Payment Processing You’re passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine are creative producers Claire Meyerhoff, Sam Liebert, says the line producer. There is no music. How can I say the music is by Scott Stein? There it is. That’s a family with the line producer. It’s his job to put the music up. Show Social Media’s by Susan Chavez. He’s ninety nine out of one hundred, so, you know, give him a break. Mark Silverman is our Web guy mean? Most times, there’s no trouble at all. And this music is by Scots Diner Brooklyn with me next week for Non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent Go out and be great you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. E-giving. You are listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Yawned Potential live life Your way on talk radio dot n Y c. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs. Do you like comic books and movies? Howbout TV and pop culture. Then you’ve come to the right place. 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Nonprofit Radio for March 8, 2019: What Does The Data Divulge?

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Steve MacLaughlin: What Does The Data Divulge? 
Predictors for planned gifts. The state of online giving. And what to expect for 2019 fundraising. Steve MacLaughlin from Blackbaud shares the data on these topics and explains what it means.






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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of pseudo graphia. If you wrote to me that you missed today’s show, what does the data divulge predictors for planned GIF ts the state of online giving and what to expect for twenty nineteen fund-raising. Steve MacLachlan from Blackbaud shares the data on these topics and explains what it means on Tony’s take to Act Blue and nineteen NTC. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner. CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text. NPR two four for four nine nine nine Real Pleasure to Welcome Back Steve McLachlan to Non-profit Radio He’s the vice president of Data and Analytics at Blackbaud and best selling author of Data Driven Non-profits. He spent twenty plus years with a broad range of companies, government institutions and non-profits. He’s been featured as a fund-raising non-profit sector and data expert in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe. Blah, blah, blah The Chronicle. Philanthropy. Yes, yes! Blob blob. I’ve been I’ve been in some of these. I’ve been I was in The Chronicle. I was in The New York Times. I wasn’t I wasn’t in The Washington Post. I have not been in the Times. I’ve not been in the Boston Globe non-profit times. Yes, I was there. Stanford Social innovation with you. Yes, yes. Bloomberg Now I’ve been there on He’s appeared on National Public Radio. And of course, now it’s time for you, Stephen Hawking, to update your bio to say that you’ve appeared on Non-profit Radio. He’s at S MacLachlan, and the company is at blackbaud dot com. Welcome back, Steve MacLachlan. Thanks for having me back, Tony. Pleasure. Oh, you’re loud and clear. You use. I’m going to give a little shout out. You’re still loud and clear. I’m going to give a shout out to the mike that you and I both use. The yeti blew us B. Yes. Way both, like, the same high quality podcasting equipment. Absolutely. That And I I first heard that there were other people who, like I was on their shows and they sounded so clear. It happened twice. I was interviewed by other people, and I asked them both what they were using. And they said the yeti blew us B And, you know, one of them sent me a link to Amazon. And for a hundred bucks, it’s a very good mike. So there you go. Absolutely. Uh, And you’ve had yours. I think you told me you had yours a couple of years. A few years. Love it. Yeah. Shake it with me wherever I do. This kind of thing. You travel, you travel with it. I have travelled with it. Okay? It’s not travel friend. That’s kind of big. And yeah. Okay. Interesting. I never thought about doing that, but that’s how much you love it. So there you go. Shout out for Yeti Blue. Um, all right. So, uh, let’s see. Steam O’Clock in what’s been on your mind lately? You, uh, you here’s here’s what happened? You you tweeted something about a mysterious plan to gift, and you said it shouldn’t have been so mysterious. That was that was because of the because of the story on Alan Nayman in December eighteen. Or was there some other impetus to that tweet? I think it was probably that one. I think it was around there where you train with an eye. Reinardy. Yeah, I responded. Yeah, yeah, that was for years. You know, I every time these surprise gift stories come up, I always have the same reaction. Which is what? It really a surprise. I shouldn’t have tried. Should it have been you? And in this case, I think, yeah, you’re referring to the Alan Ayman story that was in, you know, all over the media towards end of year. And I was on the twitter, tweeting and sort of a pine that again. But this is a great story. A very generous individual. These are great organizations who are benefiting from this in a series of bequests. But should it have been a surprise? And even to a certain extent, does treating these gifts like surprises, undermined fundraisers and put them in a difficult position? Interesting. Alright, let CZ fill in a little bit. So he was a social worker in Washington state. His is final annual salary was something like sixty three thousand dollars a year. But he had earned a lot of money in banking and inherited a lot of money. Millions. But he had like a thirty year career in social work. He had left banking long before he died. Died young sixty to sixty three. Something like that. Live three sixty three live very frugally. They one of the one of the articles, said that he wore shoes that were held together with duct tape warrant drove a gel A peak are, uh, shopped in thrift shops. You get the idea. And then when he died, he had eleven million dollars to distribute and he gave it to, I don’t know, five charities or so something like that gave it all away. Never had children, never married. And you felt that those enormous planned gif ts shouldn’t have been a surprise. Ah, no, I wasn’t. I wasn’t sure I agreed with you, but let’s see why now we’re going now, now we’re off the twitter. We get a chance to get her off. The Twitter were talking and realize. Andi, you nailed the overarching story, and this is typically the overarching story and a lot of these. The stories you see in the news right? Frugal, individual, relatively low annual income, but makes a significant gift, and it surprises people. But I started to dig into the details because the details matter. And as you noted, you know, he was He worked it er in the state of Washington, Department of Social and Health Services for a number of years, and you win come around sixty three k. He You know, it was noted to be a very frugal individual, but there’s a some other details that come up to, for example, yes, go ahead. I left off the GIF ts. Yeah, yeah, well, he had inherited, you know, several million dollars previously from his parents when they were two seams. Um, and then if you start to look through the types of organizations that he made gifts, too, it makes sense. There’s a lot of affinity there, right? At least nine to ten organizations that he made terrible gifts to do. Almost all of them are related. Thio children’s charities or charities help benefit either low income families or children. Children with disabilities. His brother was disabled, so that was another thing that influenced his giving. You put those those things together and the picture starts to emerge. That’s a little bit a little bit clear. I think the other thing that’s worth noting is, um, for at least two of the organizations that he made a significant bequest to he made previously made a pretty large donation. So one organization in Washington pediatric Interim Care Center, he had made a ten thousand dollars online gift to that organization prior to a two and a half million dollars a request. And another organization, Tree House, which is a foster care group. We know from his background that he was involved in Mr Care programs. He made a five thousand dollars one time get to the organization before a nine hundred thousand dollar bequest. So again, not exactly out of thin air. Not a complete surprise. And a lot of the things that noted here, in terms of the income range and other things, actually do match up to what we see and other types of plan giving. Okay, we got We got to take our first break. Steve, Hold that. Of course, we’ll get right back. Teo. Mr. Nayman story Pursuant their newest free E book, The Art of First Impressions. It’s donor acquisition. To attract new donors, you make a smashing first impression. How do you do that? The book has the six guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy, including how to identify your your unique value. It’s got creative tips as well. You’ll find it at Tony dahna slash pursuant. You need that capital P for, please. All right, now, let’s go back to what is the day to divulge Steve, all right, And and one of those GIF TS was so large that the organs to the ten thousand dollar gift online was so large that the organization called to make sure that he had putting the right number of zeroes, that he didn’t intend at one hundred or thousand dollar gift. And he confirmed for them before they process the transactions, whatever that that it was indeed, a ten thousand dollar gift. So so that gift was a huge outlier for them, as were the other gifts that he made. But all right, so so now to those organizations, though. So were you saying that those organizations that got those huge gifts out of the blue and they came just a couple of months before he died. Were you saying that those organizations should have known? No. You couldn’t be saying that that there was a large that there would be a bequest for them, but or or just that. They should have paid more attention to him and possibly found out about his other intent engines. I think it’s the ladder, right? Obviously, if you have a gift of that amount and and a typical fund-raising programs, I think you would make certain assumptions about the type of stewardship and cultivation that would result from a gift of that level, even if it was an outlier. Or maybe especially because it’s an outlier and a a typical, Um, I think the other part two is, and you know this because you’ve got a lot of history and background plan giving that there’s a lot of myths about plan giving. You know the reality is a significant amount of plan. Gifts du come from individuals with lower income. You know, I think one of the study’s it’s reported, is the median annual income for the Quest. Commitment is only sixty thousand dollars a year. That totally falls in the rains we’re talking about here. I think there’s, you know, there’s the other myth that young people don’t make the quest. Uh, it’s on ly older donors will again data shows that that’s not true. If we look at it, donors who make decisions about their bequests commitment between the ages of forty and fifty four, there’s sixty percent of your best prospects. Maria, if you wait until people are sixty and seventy and older, um, that’s actually a much smaller pool of your best prospects. Your best prospects for plan giving and, in particular bequest krauz. Um, that’s where ninety percent of playing gifts come from, not from terrible gift annuities or crux and crack right overwhelm our request. Overwhelming because there are people who are forty to fifty four on. I think people may just not realise that that’s what the data shows. Okay, that’s interesting. My my concern about soliciting the bequests at younger ages on DH Interesting. And a lot of times I started fifty five. So we’re gonna have an interesting, robust conversation here. My concern about younger folks and I’ve even seen marketing or, um, articles. That’s a hard word from articles Yes, I’ve read read so infrequently that the word articles is difficult for me. I’ve read that, you know, there are There are some companies that are recommending promoting plan gives to people in their thirties even. But let’s stick with what you said forty to fifty four. My concern is that, you know, and and and we know that the last will is done like two, two and a half to three years before death, on average, on average. That’s what my concern is that that organization that puts you that you put in there will or that you that it gets put in the will at forty or forty five or fifty isn’t going to last until until death at in the eighties and nineties. And of course, longevity is getting getting hyre because life, circumstances change and the organizations that were important important enough to put in the will. And I’m I’m sure we agree that that’s a big step when you put an organization alongside your your husband, your wife, your children. That’s a huge step to put in organization in your will. But but even the organizations that are love that much in the forties and early fifties. I’m questioning whether those organizations are still going to be loved enough when that last will on average, gets done two years, but two and a half to three years before death. When the people are in their eighties and nineties, what do you think? So let’s let’s pretend that’s true. Boo. Then who’s the burden on? And I would say in that scenario the burden that is on the non-profit organization to continue Tio Stuart and move along that relationship so that you when that commitment you made of that decision you made when you were in your forties in your fifties when you’re in your seventies or eighties? Obviously, yes, people, people change their minds. People change decisions about there planning, but all of those decisions are influenced by something. And is it possible that in your forties and fifties you’d plan tto leave a portion of your estate to charity A And later on, you decide to charity B? Sure, I would say that’s just the same. Is it what you would see happen in principle or major E-giving or even other e-giving? Certainly, we know that donors change their minds about where they give and and how they give. Um plan giving isn’t isn’t immune to that. It doesn’t suspend those laws. Sure. Fund-raising and dahna behavior we already know. Yeah. All right. Well, um, stewardship. That’s a that’s a long time to Steward. Um All right. You make you make a good point. It is, right. I mean, I think we all recognize that zoho talk about a plan gift. A plan gift is usually a major gift. It’s just deferred, right. The difference is about the timing. You know? Am I making that gift today? Because I have liquidity, and I can make that significant gift today. Or is it differed because I want to make this gift, But But, you know, uh, until I passed away or something happens, I’m not able to make that gift, you know, timing different. So we’re, you know, we’re disagreeing about We’re just agreeing about roughly fifteen years because you you said forty to fifty four is the sweet spot, right? Did you have When where your best prospects are? Best way our people start subject. These types of initial decisions, you say forty, forty to fifty for that. That right? Forty to fifty for about six? Yeah. About sixty percent of all your best prospects are in that age range. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Because then it goes down from there. All right, All right. Because I typically start marketing around age fifty five for charities that have age a lot a lot. Don’t. Um yeah. All right. That’s all right. So we’re talking about fifteen years, Mohr, you know, ten, fifteen years Mohr of stewardship. Um, all right. I’ll I’ll take it in to take it under advisement. I I still am concerned that the lives are going to change in the and and the importance of the charities. You know, other things are gonna happen in life that are going toe elevate other charities. Now, you would say, Well, they might get at it, but that doesn’t mean that the initial one’s going to be subtracted. Granted. Okay, No, uh, take it under advisement. You’re Yeah. Okay. Okay. So the lesson for for these Washington say charities that had these windfalls was had they started the Mr name. And after he made his lifetime gif ts that we’re way off the charts for the for these charities, the one even questioning the amount it was so large online they might have learned about his intentions by Will is that is that Is that where you’re you’re going with that? I think so. I think also, it’s there’s a cautionary tale here that if we believe that these significant types of gifts are just going to appear out of nowhere that, in fact, there’s nothing as a fundraiser or is an executive director Seo over Non-profit Aiken dio. I’m almost it’s almost down to pure lock on, and I would reject that. It’s pure luck, I agree. But it is. You can start to plan for this. You can identify people with a higher likelihood. Ah, hyre inclination to make these types of gifts. And in fact, I think, you know, we’ve talked about this on Twitter and other places. Playing giving is a huge untapped opportunity. Yeah, and so so don’t think of it is magical or luck. Think of it as a huge untapped opportunity that you can build into your PA programs and be successful. But you gotta put the time and effort into it as well. Absolutely agree. Reject that notion of its just a windfall. They just happen magically. You can look at data you can look. Att Yeah, your data data you have on giving history and identify your best plan giving prospects irrespective of age. They they might even end up being in their forties, and you don’t know it because you don’t have A, um you’ll have a gin, your file on DH? Yeah, absolutely ages Only one part of it. I think when we look ATT plan giving likelihood things in the data that make that bubble up the top are certainly, you know, things like wealth and assets, but things like church attendance, loyalty to a cause. Another thing that we found in the past with predictive modeling is if those individuals are more civically involved, they they donate to a political campaign so they donate to things in their state local area. Another big factor is lack of living children. And that certainly played out Alan Damon’s case. He had no, wasn’t married, had no children. We see that all the time and plan giving, and it could be, you know, those children are older or they had no children. Those are all factors. It certainly isn’t just all down to age, and that’s a great point. And and for smaller organizations, because our our audience is small and midsize. However you define that I don’t. I never put any definitions or boundaries around that. A lot of what you’re getting at is going to be findable by meeting people and talking to them in terms of civic engagement. Ah, marital status, children, ages of children if they have them. So they volunteered your organization, factors like that. You, Khun, quickly get Teo. Well, that one. You’ll have that when you’ll know I’m I’m suggesting that a lot of what you were describing you wouldn’t be a smaller midsize shop, wouldn’t be able to find unless they were meeting unless they were talking to people. Or is that an out of date? Am I by a dinosaur? And that’s anachronistic opinion. I mean, I think that world is changing, and I think, you know, in the next couple of years, let’s just say for the next decade I think that’s going to change a lot, or, in fact, needs to change a lot way. Topic comes up all the time. We talk about organizations in their use of data. There’s a tendency to think of a smaller How does this data benefit of smaller organization and and a lot of cases, you know, if your ah if you’re a two million dollar or one million dollar non-profit organization, if you miss out on a big opportunity, there’s a significant impact there. If you raised sixty million dollars a year and you miss out on one or two opportunities, it has less impact so that the data actually becomes, you know, very valuable for mid size, smaller organizations to so, But I wantto get to some of the data points that you mentioned, Um, that that I was suggesting you you’d only learn if you talk to somebody. Like like, civic engagement, number of children not volunteering because you would know. You know, your volunteers are on DH. You rattled off a couple of others? I don’t remember, But it was occurring to me that you’d only find those out through conversations. But are you saying that databases are evolving? That would help us find this out without having to meet somebody? Yeah. I mean, a lot of these, a lot of these data elements or even models you would do our things that that non-profit organization’s been doing for, you know, probably twenty years. It’s just becoming Mohr wide spread and common as the cost of doing that continues to get lower and the value that people are realizing from it. Okay, okay. And, you know, you could also Yeah, the true enough. I mean, you can yeah, mining, no mining the social networks. They’re there cos that will do that for you. For your file. Blackbaud is probably one of them. I mean, you can do. Do you have that capability? Yes. Certainly. One of the things that we do with our customers as we have the ability to upend these types of data elements to a file. But actually, what’s more common is organizations ask us tow, screen their donors and identify people who have a major gift likelihood or a plain gift likelihood or an annual gift likelihood because you’re you also start to quickly drift into. I want to understand all the donors or potential supporters I have, and some are a better fit for different types. Of programs and others. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Uh, the Well, that’s the data accessibility that a lot a lot of people fear, but it exists on DH. If it’s there and you can use it for the benefit of your fund-raising, you might as well. All right. Um, absolutely. You want to talk about a little about digital? What? What? What’s on your mind about digital online? Fund-raising I have a lot on my mind about digital way. Just have an hour. Yeah. Sorry. I think the big thing is I recently wrote something about the fact that online giving it’s been around for twenty years. Now, that’s a long time. And yet a lot of the current perception or continued perception the sector is online. Is this new thing? No, it’s not. I mean, it’s a twenty year old. It’s moved out of the house. It’s grown up, uh, you know, and I think that’s going to call call into question. How long do we persist? Thinking about online is a totally separate animal from the rest of Fund-raising. When the reality is, it’s just a channel, right? It’s like direct mail. It’s like phone. It’s like street canvassing. It’s like events. It’s you know, it’s like, you know, we used to have basic cable and then we got all the advanced, you know, channels on cable. That’s what digital has brought us. But there’s still a lot of thinking about it. It’s a separate thing. We should think about it separately. I think now that we’re twenty years into this, we probably need Teo evolve our thinking and think about, you know, if we thought the last twenty years brought a lot of change. The next twenty is going to bring a really transformative change in a lot of ways. So the the online giving is still under ten percent. You’re the charitable giving reports puts it at eight and a half percent is that I have the eight and a half percent but growing heimans madox people. It’s growing. That study has been steadily growing. Yeah, that shocks people. But it’s interesting. The U. S. Department of Commerce publishes the percentage of all retail sales that happened on the Internet, and that’s only nine point eight percent. So again, I don’t know. Everyone may think you buy everything from Amazon and you buy everything online. The reality is less than ten percent of retail is online and less than ten percent of Fund-raising is online and they’re actually tracking pretty close. That just tells us consumer donorsearch Hey, viewer had a lot of cross over. OK, absolutely true about the retail I would, I would have guessed, I don’t know, forty or something less than ten. Just under ten. Nine point eight percent of all retail sales in the point eight percent are online. Dang Alright, alright. I knew I was going to learn from This is a part of this too. And it brings up another interesting question. Which is how how you fund-raising is not the same as what you fund-raising so to me. The how you fund-raising what channels to use your running a direct mail program. Do you do events? Do you send email? But then there is what gets fund-raising taste. And there’s a crossover, right? So are you Are you raising money through a monthly giving program? Are you being an annual giving program? Do you have mid level giving Major e-giving plan giving on? And these things really blurred the lines right? You know we’re talking about the the exact example previously that individual made to online gifts, you know, in excess of several thousand dollars. That’s very common these days. So to me, that’s less about the fact that they made the gift online and has more to do with Where do they fit into your fund-raising program? Because in a lot of cases online, it is. It’s just convenient. Right is less friction. There’s less steps, but it doesn’t. And this is another point. I think that’s come up on social media in a lot of debates is, well, is. There’s also a tendency to think, um, we need to put all of our money into digital and stop putting money into the traditional Let’s just call it analog stuff, and I love digital. But that’s crazy. Like that’s a bad idea. I think what we find is you need to have a mix. You gotta virality You’ve got to be a multi challenge. It’s gotta be, Yeah, yeah, that’s on. That’s consistent with what so many guests have said about communications. You have to be multi-channel. Your fund-raising needs to be as well. What are the right? So what are the larger sources of If if online is just only eight and a half percent where The biggest too. So what’s the biggest two sources of of channel? Yeah, of individual Give? Yes. Channels. Yeah. I mean, it’s going to be, you know, direct mail. Still direct phone. Yeah. Face-to-face canvassing and then digital and within digital, you’re going tohave email. You’re going have online ads. You’re going tohave social media. I mean, there’s probably, you know, a two dozen channels that we could look at you and, you know, digital. Just one of them. Sure, sure, alright, but but so direct mail is still the number one. The greatest source of individual giving is still from direct mail. No, I would say you really looked at the numbers. You would find that it is the face-to-face, not canvassing face-to-face, but face-to-face, I’m gonna go sit Tony in your living room this afternoon, and we’re going to discuss that three million dollars gift, okay? Because the reality is, um if you look at a ball, all of fund-raising eighty two percent of all the revenue comes from twenty percent of donors and those air come from significant gifts. So if he really got down to ah, what channel or what type of interaction raises the most money, it’s going to Major, give fund-raising and those air face-to-face conversations. Okay? We’re not having a conversation about just what raises the most money. I think what we want to understand is what is the mix of channels, right? Oh, yeah. Wait, no. You gotta that first gift might because you saw an advertisement on NPR. Or you got something in the mail or you saw something on social media, and you develop that relationship over time, and it takes a lot of channels to get there, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I just, uh it seemed like a natural question. What is the largest. Steve. We’ve got to take a take a take another break. Okay, where you see Piela. They have an archive Webinar for you. Their accounting update. What has changed this year that Wagner knows categorically and you need to know just a skosh. New requirements for financial statements. For instance, that’s what the webinars about what’s new this year. You goto wagner cps dot com Click Resource is then Webinars. Now it’s time for Tony’s. Take two is next week. Act Blue and Non-profit Radio at the Non-profit Technology Conference in Portland, Oregon. ActBlue is our premiere sponsor at nineteen and TC. I hope you will come by booths five o eight and five ten where we are together in. In. If there is no five o nine in between us, that’s on five nines on the other side of the aisle. So we’re in a large booth together. Non-profit radio in ActBlue. Just just look for the booth with the bright studio lights, because I’m gonna be shooting video a cz. Well, as I’m capturing interviews for the coming months on the show, Act Blue is they’re talking about the power of small dollar donations. While I’m capturing interviews for now. I just said right this crap while I’m capturing you. Yeah. No shit. I just said that I need an intern. I am soliciting ob soliciting resumes for interns. So I have somebody to blame for this. Poor copy. Eso submit your resume Tonia tonia martignetti dot com And the next time there’s a mistaken my copy. You know that I will blame you so send your resume quickly. Alright, in the meantime? Um actblue Yes. You know them for their wildly popular on DH successful political grassroots fund-raising platform raised over three billion dollars. You can go to AC Blue and you can see the sea the counter. But now they want you to check out their platform and small dollar donation value for your organ. It’s no longer just for grassroots and political. So you do that a tony dot m a slash ActBlue. Come to the booth. Sabelo. Ah, the interview schedule. It’s completely booked. I’ve got thirty seven interviews in the two and a half days of NTC. Unbelievable. Non-profit radio, wildly popular. Last year. We had about eight or so empty slots this year. Not a single empty slot. I mean, we’re, you know, we’re taking bathroom breaks and lunch breaks, but thirty seven interviews come by. Come by. Say hello, Teo. Me and ActBlue. All right. That is Tony’s. Take two. Now, let’s get back to Steve McLaughlin. And what does the data divulge? You probably got a little more. Yes. You were just admonishing me for asking the question. About what? What What is the highest? What is the largest source of individual gifts? And I understand we’re not. We’re not. We’re not categorizing. One, two, three, four. The point is, you do need to be multi-channel, um, and and not not not focus on any anyone area. All right, so you got a little more you want to say in digital, I’m sure or on this on this subject, I mean, I think you’re spot on, you know, it’s got to be the multi-channel. I think the other thing that we’re learning is non-profits air starting to understand that it’s also the sequencing and those channels. I think if we look back ten or fifteen years from now, I think this is an area where artificial intelligence machine learning can really help. In some ways, which is understanding. What is the sequence of messaging? Is it? There’s a direct mail piece, followed by an email followed by an SMS message, followed by this followed by that followed by something that hasn’t been invented yet. That is the right sequence that drives donors to give or renew our whatever happens to be. And certainly I think another part worth noting is his mobile is part of this digital landscape. For a number of years, we’ve looked at the percentage of online donations that happen on a mobile device. Yes, in twenty eighteen, it was twenty four percent, right? So we’re done debating if mobile is a really important thing because it’s almost a quarter of all the online donations are happening on a mobile device, and that was only, like, nine percent a few years ago. So it’s that continues to grow. I think if you look put down the time Horizon Mobile has the potential to be one of the most transformative, um, elements of e-giving experience. Um, you know, there’s seven billion people on Planet Earth, and five billion of them have a mobile phone. There’s only like two and a half billion PCs. So mobile has a lot of potential. And you’ll see over time, e-giving will move the mobile. Um, a lot of these other type of non-profit interaction things will move to a mobile device. And I think a lot of ways that will help us get over our online versus offline hang up because a mobile devices, all those things in one, right? We don’t think about Oh, I’m online on my phone. No, You know, we just don’t think of it that way. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. So your point one, the points you made were past the debate whether you need to make sure that every page that you’re giving our all of that is mobile optimized that videos that your your videos you maybe sharing play, play properly on on, ah, a phone or a phone or a tablet. But you’re talking specifically about phones, so we’re we’re past all that you need to be one hundred percent mobile optimized, and so let’s so let’s talk some about sametz giving. What do we do? We know that specifically in terms of Is that the you don’t know? I’m asking a six different questions at one time. You’re stuck with me as a host. I’m sorry. There is. There is no other hosts non-profit radio, it’s me or dead air. So you’re stuck with me. Okay. The report says mobile donations, twenty four percent. Is that all SMS or no, That’s people going to a website and filling out an online form Ah, form on their phone. What is what’s in that? Twenty percent. Twenty four percent. We’re looking at donation to happen on a mobile device. We’re not looking at SMS SMS is interesting. Um, you know, there was a point in time several years ago where we saw SMS was going to be the new big thing and that turned out to not happen. I think it was the right medium, but the wrong method. So you know, two thousand ten was probably the big moment for text to give in the US there was the Haiti earthquake. There were tens of millions of dollars raised through SMS text to give. There was a lot of hype. Everyone said it’s all going to be text to give Ah and you fast forward to today And essentially that’s not what happened. What happened? Wass, Um we we were right about the medium that people would want to do something on a mobile device. But we were wrong about the method. Text to give was not going to be the method that people prefer to use for a lot of reasons. But really, what’s become sort of the most effective approaches when you optimize your website, your donation forms your email messages, your digital experience for mobile. Um people will give through that and and a significant portion, um, text to give. I don’t think it’s really, um, sort of panned out the way people thought. Now that’s not to say that SMS is a communication and an engagement tool hasn’t been successful. I think there’s a lot of examples of SMS being a good way to engage supporters, volunteers, activists. Um it’s just text to give, at least for the U. S. Um, I think it’s had its day and you’ll see the most of that just shifted people doing on a mobile device. Okay, interesting way. Have a sponsor text to give that well, not be happy to hear you’re and I’m sure they have a different take on this although they do mobile engagement also on DH there is that there is a lot I think is is do something. Are they the premier example of mobile text text, engagement? Do something dot or do something? There’s a lot there. Crisis text line right after them. The Lublin in the folks that crisis tech find right amazing stories of what? Sms from an engagement perspective and a programmatic perspective, they have some amazing work. They’ve done their, um, part of it. Just as would text to give one of the challenges. Is it’s? It’s a regulated industry. You got to deal with the telcos. Ah, the amount you Khun give is limited. Ah, all the rules around it are highly constrained. So would I rather get a one time, ten dollars text gift or what? I rather send them to my website? That’s optimized, and I get a twenty five dollars per month recurring gift or a thousand dollar gift. Um, you know, just some different things happening in that space, for sure. Okay, we got to take another break. Tell us. Can use more money needed to revenue sources. Stephen, I talkingabout multi-channel You get a long stream of passive revenue. This is passive revenue. When companies that you refer process their credit card transactions through, tell us, watch the video, then send these potential companies to watch the video. Could be trusty, local, local company that’s been supporting you. If they take credit cards, their their their prospects for this and you will get fifty percent of the fee of each transaction. That’s the long revenue stream. The video is that Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s. Now let’s go back to Steve McLachlan. Um, all right, so you know, we’ve got another twenty minutes or so. Roughly. Um, let’s talk a little about what you see. What your what your thoughts are around overall giving it’s up up a percent. A half in twenty. Eighteen. Um, And let’s talk about what you what you think is coming for twenty. Nineteen. That’s a wide open heart. Open topic. Yeah, well, first, I think we should note that despite the reports of the demise of Fund-raising Oh, yes, Yes. The reports were greatly exaggerated, right? You know, you You seen this over the past eighteen months? Eighteen months as much as anybody, right? Oh, the fund-raising. Is going to go down the tubes. The bottom is gonna fall out. Mass hysteria. Turns out in twenty eighteen. That didn’t happen. Way looked at about thirty two billion and fund-raising revenue across a wide range of organizations. And what we found with E-giving was up about one and a half percent on a year over year basis. And we actually took a step back and looked at a three year trend because a lot of stuff has happened in the past three years. And if you look at the three year trend, so twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen and you look at the same exact organizations and how they performed overall giving is up nine percent. Um, so I think that’s A positive one of things also tells us is that twenty seventeen was a much better year in terms of giving than what we may be thought a year ago, um and twenty eighteen was probably a return to more normal levels. Um, but I think most organizations would take nine percent over three years. And from a girl’s perspective now, help me understand this, Um, what’s the difference between the one and a half percent growth in overall and the and the nine percent? Sure. So, one half percent growth if we take the exact same non-profit organizations in twenty seventeen and we see how they performed in twenty, eighteen through one and a half percent here apples, apples, comparison. Um, but when you look at it over three years, you actually see it. It’s a nine percent growth rate. I think if anything that tells us, you know, twenty seventeen probably had a spike in giving caused by a multitude of factors the economy, uh, politics, lots of stuff. And maybe that got overlooked in a lot of the hysteria about what may or may not happen in giving in twenty eighteen. But overall, you know, growth is good. And certainly as we head into twenty nineteen. Um, we’re looking for some good news there, too. Okay. All right. See, So over three years, the growth was was nine percent. Um, so you’re you mentioned your charitable giving report Looks at about thirty two billion dollars in giving. Yeah, but total total individual giving is like, four hundred billion. So how total giving is about four hundred ten billion Total individual giving is what is it? Seventy percent of that. Okay, right. It’s a three quarter. It’s It’s usually three quarters of so, So so about three hundred billion. Um, so s So how do you answer the question? You’re looking at roughly ten percent of individual giving. Ifyou’re looking at thirty two billion and it’s three hundred billion total, How do you How do you respond if that za small percentage of total individual giving? So how do we know it’s representative of the whole? Well, you know, all data is only representative of itself not to get a topical right. Says that’s very esoteric. We’re looking at David and two billion dollars. That’s what happened for these organizations, I think one of the challenges. Um, no, one has all the data for the four hundred something billion dollars. Um, so if you’re looking to find the absolute number and all the data that doesn’t exist in one place, certainly what we tried to do with e-giving report on some of our researches, let’s try and have a very large, significant sample size. I’m not aware of anyone sample sizes larger and try and provide some insight and analysis there. That’s a interesting way I’ve touched on this from time to time through the years. Um, it’s related to the fact that we have to wait until June of each year when the giving us a report comes out to find out what the what the charitable giving was for the previous year. It just seems to me that in twenty nineteen, we shouldn’t have to wait six months on. I’m not, I guess. Well, I am implicitly imputing giving us a You know, there used to be the atlas of giving and Rob Mitchell was on the show a number of times. They had an algorithm that that they said was nineteen, ninety nine or ninety eight or ninety nine percent predictive. When you look back based on all kinds of econometric variables that they said they could predict. And then they change it every month. They could look, he didn’t call them predictions that could forecast he didn’t like the word predictions. It could forecast the future with these with these econometric variables, but that the, uh, the the atlas of giving no longer exists that it didn’t didn’t prevail. I don’t know. It’s just we don’t have a good measure. No one does have all the data. Why? Why do we have to wait six months? Made this twenty nineteen and we were just with all the with all the technology we have access to data. Why do we have to wait six months to know what happened in the previous year? You’re that your data scientist? Help me understand. Why is this so hard? Why can’t someone? Why can’t someone tackle this so that within a couple of weeks we know what happened in the previous year? Boy, do I want to get into this one way? Got about ten minutes left, so go ahead. Uh, well, I think a couple of things. One, Certainly. You know, my perspective is that what giving USA produces and what they’ve done for fifty plus years is is really valuable to the sector because it’s a lot of deep research in tow into the data and what’s happening and trends. But like anything, any benchmark, any report, I think we’ve got a really focus on How does it help? You know, what’s the point of it is that we wantto count how many billions were raised. I don’t think it’s necessarily that that makes for interesting headlines, but I think really, it’s about how do we make? How do we make that information actionable and in so many ways? I think what I continue to see is it’s really valuable for an organization, whether you’re one million dollars a year budget, human services organization or a fifty million dollar healthcare charity. You want this information, these insights because you want to be able to compare your performance to what else is happening in the sector, but probably more importantly, you want to be able to compare your performance to similar pierre organization, right? That’s how am I doing compared to others. And, you know, what is it that some of those organizations might be doing differently? That’s driving growth? Or am I outperforming them? And that’s useful to know? Yeah, I agree with all that, of course, that there is value. But why do we have to wait six months? That’s a long time. Six months is a long time to know what’s actionable from the previous year. Were you? Do you Do you remember the atlas of giving you? Are you familiar with what that was? I’m familiar with it. Yeah. Okay. Um, what did you think of Atlas of giving you can You’re free to disagree, Rob Mitchell Will doesn’t. Nobody listens to this show, so don’t worry about it. I’m starting to think that they had built some sort of black box. Proprietary forecast, right models, right? What was happening with e-giving? Um, that changed, uh, with a lot of frequency. Well, they don’t know. They updated the therefore decided it wasn’t That wasn’t a valuable, useful thing to have. Maybe. Yeah. I don’t know if it was the market or the marketing. You know, I was a small, a small company. Um, I have a background in economics, and I I, uh I mean, I wasn’t privy to their to their algorithm, but okay, s so I I used to lean toward that, basically, but it didn’t. It didn’t succeed. For whatever reason again, I think a lot of that is there was a small business and they were up against e-giving Yusa, which does have Ah, long history, like you said, fifty years. Okay, I don’t I’m not cutting off the topic. Steve Matlock, and we’ll go right back to it. You could respond to exactly right back to what I just said, but I got to take care of our sponsors. Last break is the last break. Text to give can use more, uh, more money, more engagement. You need a new revenue source. This is another way we’re talking multi-channel mobile giving. I know we just talked about it with Steve, but, uh, text to give is more than just mobile giving. It’s also mobile engagement. Um, but with their emphasising, is there five part email? Many course tto learn more about what they’re doing. It’s five e mails and the weight to get into the email. Many course is you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Now, we’ve got several more minutes for what does the day to divulge? Um, okay, Um all right. Anything? What do you want to say? Anything. Response to what I was just saying you know again? I mean, I think any of these reports, anything analysis stuff we should always go back to. How can an non-profit apply it to what they’re doing? I think in the case of giving you say, they’re tryingto bring together a lot of data. Some of it is economic data, you know is, you know, when you’re tryingto forecast or predict what happened, it’s partially based on there’s IRS data. There’s economic data. There’s a number of factors there. I would say, You know, we sort of on the blackbaud side, we differed e-giving Yusa to say how much was given and toe which type of organizations was given, too, because that is a complex undertaking of which durney you know, that’s not our not our focus. We’re sort of Mohr interested in trying to understand things that a at a different level on more about what the trends are than the actual dollars. But then giving us a doesn’t even give us a forecast. I mean, they they say some generalities like the political environment and climate change, and so societal factors and the metoo movement, you know, will impact e-giving. But but they don’t, They don’t They don’t have any numbers along with their forecast. Uh, I mean, they don’t have any. Numerical forecast is what I mean. It sounds like you’ve got some topics and potential guests for your next show. Them. Well, you could be one of them, but yeah, but But nobody’s got the Why does it take? Why does it take six months? This’s twenty nineteen, for God’s sake. I just don’t understand why it takes six months to get the previous. All right, It seems to me we should be able to have it in, like, two weeks. Your data scientist, To prove me wrong, I I would defer to them. Uh, probably blackbaud should do it. You should take it on. You could do it in six weeks. You could beat them all right, Until I just I uninformed opinion, but I think it’s I think it’s doable. Maybe uninformed, but it’s still valid. It’s complete contradiction. All right, um all right. What do you What do you want to say about about About the future. I’ll get off the, uh, donor advised funds. Okay? And we talk about that once We got a couple, you just have a couple minutes left. Sure. What about them? They’re growing well. You know. They’re growing, I think. The Chronicle Plan B is noted that five of the top ten charities in the US or now don’t advise funds. You’re seeing a lot of growth there. I know there’s been a lot of talk about tax law changes, but it’s worth noting none of that tax law changes impacts dahna advice funds. So, you know, I think you’re going to continue to see them grow. I think you’re going to see the thresholds on those donorsearch vice fund start to move down. You know, it’s not going to be that I have to make a five or a ten thousand dollar gift to start one. You’re going to see those things lower. Um, I think it’s going to be part of a bigger part of giving, which is is different, right? You know, it’s not going to be, you know, certainly we track giving two foundations, but we don’t look at that in terms of the growth of giving, because it’s a bit of an intermediary in some cases. But I think you’re going to see dahna advice. One’s continued to grow uh, continue to be a bigger share of ware. Charitable giving goes on, and nonprofit organizations are gonna have to get better it both engaging with donors and educating them about, Hey, hey, it’s okay if you choose to use a donor advised fund, but but here’s how you can use that to help continue to give their organization and do things. And I think that’s that’s sort of the new reality. Like we talked about Mobile, the new normal dahna advice funds are here. They’re not going anywhere. They will only continue to get bigger. And that’s a part that fundraisers and and non-profit leaders need to pay attention to. That’s a great topic. I hosted a panel on the foundations at the foundation center, and we aired it here. Dahna advice. Funds are you know they’re a source of frustration for not for charities, starting with the fact that sometimes they don’t know who the gift is from the Schwab or the or the Fidelity. You know, I won’t tell them Yeah. I mean, I think it’s certainly create some frustration on the part of non-profits, but I think it’s not going away. Yeah. So how does he adapt to it? Um, you know, there’s probably a whole set of best practices that certain organizations have learned to embrace that, um, you know, that type of approach and again from a tax law perspective or some other other types of things, uh, they don’t really impact recover What donorsearch vice funds or doing? It’ll also be interesting to see what donorsearch vice funds due to, um, private foundations. What does it mean for local community foundations? Who who in some cases, do run their own donor advised funds as well? That’s a whole interesting ecosystem. Well, yeah, I mean, you could Well, I think of dahna advice funds, as the modest income persons foundation mean, I got it, you know, And and I I hear your point. The thresholds will will come down. You believe that? Sounds very very likely. So let’s say, you know, But for a thousand five thousand dollars, I can have a private foundation through a donor advice. I’m going to put the money in, and I and my kids, if I had kids could decide where, where, where, where and when to make those. And I don’t have the five percent spend requirement that private foundations have. All right. I guess I didn’t mean Teo. I’ll give you the last word. You’re the guest, but we do have to wrap up. So So give up. Give us a thirty second rap thirty second rap again. I think there’s a lot of positive trends in terms of e-giving what we’re seeing with digital, but ultimately it still comes back to How are we engaging with donors? How we steward that starting them. Um, how are we showing the impact that they have, Like all those, uh, basic bread and butter blocking and tackling. Insert your analogy here. Those are replaced by technology or anything else. You still have to do those things and the organizations that do those things well, the ones that will continue to grow and do more amazing work in the world. Steve McLachlan, He’s vice president of Data and Analytics at Blackbaud. You should follow the guy’s. Very smart. Very smart. Uh, at S McLachlan. It’s m a C Lachlan. Okay, at S McLaughlin on the companies that blackbaud dot com. Steve, thank you so much. Thanks for coming back. Great. Thanks, Tony. Real pleasure. Next week it is Jason Lewis and the War for Fund-raising talent. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuant online tools. Here’s where the music cue the music. Chris Care is responsive by pursuing. Oh, no, that’s my mistake. Now you don’t okay, turn the music down. That was Tony martignetti mistakes. You’re stuck with this host up there, but I’m the only one. Chris is doing the show perfectly, and I just screwed him up. 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Nonprofit Radio for February 1, 2019: Successful Run/Walks & #19NTC

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Emily Parks: Successful Run/Walks
Emily Parks melds her productivity consulting with her experience in run/walks to give you her best tips that will make your sporting events winners. She’s founder of Organize for Success.




Amy Sample Ward

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The 2019 Nonprofit Technology Conference is March 13-15 in Portland, OR. Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor, CEO of NTEN and a Portlander, shares why you need to be there. Hint: You’re reading this. You use technology.



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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, Molly Sullivan at Fordham University here in New York. She was sharing the show with her colleagues and accidentally sent it to me. We love listener sharing. So thank you very much, Molly, for doing that, even if you have to share with the host. I love sharing. So share with me all the time, but thank you for trying to get it out to your colleagues. Hope you hope you got that Taken care of. Thanks for sharing Molly. And congratulations on being our Listener of the week. I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with forma cation if you made my skin crawl with the idea that you missed today’s show. Successful Run Walks Emily Parks, Melcher Productivity Consulting with run walks to give you her best tips that will make your sporting events winners. She’s founder of Organized for Success and nineteen NTC twenty nineteen Non-profit Technology conference is March thirteen to fifteen in Portland, Oregon. I’ll be there. Amy Sample Ward are social, media and technology contributor, CEO of N ten and a Portland ER, shares. Why you need to be there. Here’s a hint. You can hear this right now, so you’re use technology durney steak, too insider responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing, but Wagner CPS guiding you Beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com Bye. Tell us Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine. Pleased to welcome Emily Parks to Non-profit radio, she’s an award winning productivity consultant who founded Organized for Success in two thousand seven, using tips using tips garnered from her years as a small business owner and productivity consultant. Emily has more than doubled income generated by the lunge Forward, five k run, walk and rally that she directs for the Lung Cancer Initiative of North Carolina. She’s at or GE the number four success, and her company is organized. The word for success dot biz. We’ll have to show Emily Parks thank you so much for having me today. It’s a pleasure to be joining you. Thanks. You calling in from Raleigh, North Carolina, Are you? Yes, I am. Okay. You know, my heart is in North Carolina often. Yeah, cause I own my own two homes there once. Ones like, only an hour away from you in Pinehurst. Yes. And as a beautiful town. Yeah, it is. It’s nice. There. Rallies. Lovely. I love Raleigh. Absolutely. A little bit of everything in rally. A lot of college students Do I like that? Yeah. So let’s talk about our successful run walks to get started. You like to see a comprehensive checklist? Well, my experience working with entrepreneur small business owners, non-profit managers, frontline employees, every human being has reinforced the research that our brains are meant for thinking whether that strategic or creative. But they’re not meant for remembering things. And so when we’re putting together any sort of an event, but particularly a charity, run or walk, there are so many things to be remembered, and I find that capturing those is a great way to make sure number one, nothing falls through the cracks, but also, we can actually a sign a deadline for each of the items in the checklist. We can make sure that it it flows more seamlessly from conception that to the event day, and that we’re able to actually check them off the list. But there’s definitely a sense of accomplishment and empowerment where you’re checking things off the list. Yeah, I was like that when I can scratch something off a list. But so So if I forget, uh, my wife’s birthday, I could just say My brain is not made for remembering. So layoff, Is that true? Well, there is this little thing called technology that can help you with reminders and things like that so we can use the tools around us. But yes, actually, when so numbers were first created, they were given four digits. Because all the psychological research shows that we’re not able within our brains to capture more than four things at a time. And you’ll notice when when children or adults go through I Q testing and they give you the items that you need to remember and then they do something else and they come back and they ask you for those items. They only ask you for three or four different things in that list. And that’s because our brains are just not meant for remembering those things. Okay, now, when I was in when I was in college, I took some psychology courses, and it was cognitive psychology. One of the things we learned. Maybe this is Maybe this is outdated now, because this was nineteen eighty, Something, um was that the brain could remember. It was it was seven plus or minus two chunks. Does this sound familiar to you, or it does So bizarre is that learning so on a chunk is not necessarily a digit. I mean, you could put if you were, If you trained yourself, you could put six or seven or eight digits in a chunk. And then you can remember seven plus or minus two chunks of somewhere between five and nine chunks, you know, but you have to train yourself. You can’t do that right out of the gate. That is that. Is that antiquated research that I just wasted people’s times listening to? No. But there is a caveat to that. There’s the emphasis on number one training yourself, but number two, using tools to connect those items together. So a lot of times you’ll hear people talking about a list of items or shopping list or something, and they create a story that ties the different items together. So you’re more inclined to remember closer to that seven to nine range, then the four to six range. If you’re doing something with your brain to make those words matter, or there’s numbers matter or they’re more meaningful. Yeah, okay. You got do some exercises with them or something. Yeah, part of the part of the final exam in that course, the Professor Red things off. And I think you know how to have pens down or something. Your hands up in the air or something. And then And then after he read off a series of whatever they were, you had to write down as many of them as you could remember. That was, uh that was interesting. Exam. All right, Durney. How’d you do on the exam? Oh, no. I’m more like seven. I’m more like one plus or minus two chunks. My, my So so I grasp on when you say our brains are not made for remembering, I grab onto that so that will sustain me for another ten or twelve years. Well, in another thing, not only that our brains are not meant for remembering, but they’re meant for thinking is also that our our brains don’t grass someday. So one of the other reasons that I like a checklist is because of those deadlines that I mentioned. If we have associative deadlines with our checklist items, then it’s not floating out there as a wish. It becomes a goal and something that we contain. Gia ble attain. I don’t know about you, Tony, but I have yet to dahna calendar that has some day on it. So when I say that I’ll get to that someday, it usually just keeps falling down the list further and further and never actually gets accomplished. And when you’re planning a walker run, that charity is depending on the action’s getting completed in a timely manner and deadlines pair nicely with that. I admire how, how deftly you segregate us back to the topic. We’re supposed to be talking about an off the topic that I digressed, too, which was a seven plus or minus two chunks in the psychology class and everything else. So that was very well done. We’ve got to take our first break pursuant their newest free E book, The Art of First Impressions. Do you need more donors? This resource is all about donor-centric guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy. Plus how to identify your unique value and use it to advantage, plus creative tips. It’s all about making an excellent first impression for Donorsearch acquisition. You’ll find this at Tony dahna slash pursuant Capital P for, please. Always for that listener landing page. Now, let’s go back to successful run walks. All right, Emily. Eso brava. Well done, Segway ing us back to the topic that you got tired of talking about That I made you digress to That was never tired of talking about psychology. But I do know that I want to be able to give your listeners as much value as we possibly can. Yes. And if you, uh, worthless host digressions as possible, that’s that’s the natural conclusion From what you just said. I understand their kayman value is always Well, it better be. I just got some value to this. Okay, so what’s our next step? You You tell me what you want to talk about after after having that critical checklist, How about teamwork? No, I don’t want that. I don’t like that one. Now go ahead. Of course, Steven, do it. Well, I the quotes that come to mind when I’m thinking of planning charity walks and runs are in love as faras. You know, if you want to go quickly, go by yourself. If you want to go for go with a group or together everyone achieves Mawr. I mean, there’s there’s countless Mantra tze with which a lead our organizational group. But having a committee might be the most important element for the success of both the event, the growth of the fund-raising and the overall mission driven element of any charity organization committee’s Okay, we don’t want a committee too big. I mean, of course, right? I mean, this is a run walk, so of course it can’t be handled by one person, so absolutely I’m not not debating that. But you get too much committee. Andi, you get more, get more committee. I don’t know stagnation. Then you do productivity out of a committee. Absolutely. You want to make sure that you have enough people in the room said that each of the necessary rolls is fulfilled. But you want to make sure that you don’t have so many that it slows down the decision making process or that anyone on the committee doesn’t feel like they’re truly contributing. People want to make an impact. People want to help your non-profits vision and mission come to fulfillment, but if they’re just filling up space and coming for a free meal, they’re going to feel less fulfilled in the process. So I find making sure that the committee includes a volunteer coordinator, a team captain, coordinator, an exhibitor coordinator or host for those vendors that will be at the event a media contacts and then particularly someone to oversee the food and beverage element of your event. Those air really integral roles that helped the committee divide and conquer on the necessary functionality but also empower all those team members. Because if you’ve got a planning team that has the the right people in the right roles, then everybody excels because they’re all ableto bring ideas and energy and their network for bigger and better results. I’m in Italian, so I gravitated to the food and beverage section. What if we’re thinking about doing a run walk you know, we don’t do these annually with planning one first. One. What kinds of what kinds of foods and beverages should you provide to your your runners and walkers? The answer to that, Tony actually depends on what type of event you’re trying to have. I find it. The charity event that I oversee for our Greensboro Lunge forward here in North Carolina is part of a run, Siri. So there are running events all throughout the year, and participants that do at least five of those in the Siri’s get X surprising. So been to many throughout the series, and there’s different feelings at different events throughout the year. Some of them really focus on making sure there’s enough doughnuts and bagels and sausage biscuits or bananas or oranges for free race snacking and then refueling as soon as you’re done with the rich. There are others like ours, where we do have those items beforehand, particularly the bagels, the doughnuts, the bananas, oranges. You know, those high energy fuelling foods. But we also partner with a local restaurant in brewery in the area to be ableto have brought and beer now talking. Now, now breathe here for everyone that participates in the five K is always an exciting draw for any runner. And I’ve decided that if you run a five K, you’ve earned your free beer afterward. Can I just show up in shorts and a T shirt and just crash and forget the five k part? And just just I’ll do the walk from my car to the beer stand. Well, how about you registers a participant to the five K, but she just sort of hide in the background during the running part, and then you get your beard the alright? Exactly. Yeah, right. Right. I mean, you still get the teacher about trying to skirt the system, but I don’t want to cheat the charity, so I mean, I’ll donate, you know, I’ll donate to the charity too, but you’re in Brant’s. That xero okay. So a little some comfort food for afterwards, if But you know. But I hear you too. And you know, it depends on what part of the country you’re in. It depends on what your mission is. Beer and brats may not work for the American Heart Association. Well, the beer could mean that that alcohol is hard healthy too, in moderation I don’t know about. Maybe they read washing. Yeah, Yeah or yeah. That’s a myth, though. You know what? That’s the red wine producers all, however all alcohol? Yes. All alcohol again in moderation. The two ounces to three ounces or two to four ounces a day or something. Has the has the heart healthy benefits. But the red wine industry jumped on that when it first came out and said, You know, red wine is the is the source. You get the same heart healthy benefits from white wine or other other alcohol spirits. Trust me. Just you have to just trust me on that. That’s great. That marked the price of admission. Jellicle, my limoncello Limoncello, not lemon Jell O, please, Limoncello. What else do I like? Bailey’s? Yes. You get the get the advantage from all those different alcohol types. Not on ly red wine. OK, another worthless host aggression. I’m sorry. I don’t know why you come on the show. I would if I were you. I’d hang up because the hostess who keeps dragging you into places there only I think the lesson about alcohol. That’s a pretty good lesson learned All right. It’s true. Um, especially skillsets wear Red day today. Always today. Where? A day for what? Yeah, for the American heart is American heart miss that one. All right. Okay. Uh, while I’m in New York somewhere and gray and black, that’s that’s That’s the de rigueur colors here. All right, So what’s next? We gotta have some captains coordinators on the committee, right? Absolutely. So, talking about this, members of the committee that touched on the volunteer coordinator was the team captain coordinator. And I find that that team captain coordinator is an integral part for the growth of any run wall. Because if you’re using your committee and your media contacts and your email messages that go out your social media marketing to touch on each individual directly from the organization, you’re not gonna have the breadth and depth of reach that if you have a team captain coordinator who is the point person for energizing all of your team captains, then it gives the team captains the fuel to go out and work with their network and make those personal place to grow their network. And thereby you have this whole army of individuals that are out getting people excited and energized and signed up and making donations and asking their friends and family and neighbors and colleagues to come and join them. Research shows that we need to hear about something at least five to seven times before we want to learn about it. So if you’ve got your marketing messages going out, but then you also have Team Captain’s asking for help e-giving personal invites to their contacts. Then you reach that five to seven threshold faster, and you get more people to go to the website, learn more about the event and sign up, make known ations and truly take action. Okay. And then, of course, there’s technology that can help us to. It’s enlarge our network as well. Absolutely. I’m a firm believer that a combination of message sitting so email, marketing, multiple platforms of social media if you if you were non-profit, is the size of a mid having a text messaging element, that’s a huge way to get people while they’re on the go. You can also make sure that you’ve got calls going out. Our team captain coordinator does a great job to make calls to the team captains and then the team captains. Often Tom’s will call people on there on their teens, so it’s sort of that domino effect and also another coordinators that we touched on earlier. The volunteer coordinator and Exhibitor Coordinator. Um, you could also have a sponsorship coordinator, but those air all people to get other organisations involved. So your sponsor coordinator is getting people to donate money as sponsors. Your exhibitor Coordinator is getting organizations, businesses, community partners, tohave table tops at the event. And your volunteer coordinator is working with Universities High School’s key club, all different types of volunteer outlet to get more people there on the premises. Most events I’ve seen need anywhere from one hundred two hundred volunteers for a walker run. And you want to make sure that you have those bodies so that things run seamlessly throughout? Okay, wait. If you’re talking a minimum of one hundred volunteers, that’s a that’s a huge event. Yes. You know, you’re talking about So what size hominy, run runners. Walkers? Do you have just wait? We average between five hundred eight hundred participants, but we have a cz many as twelve hundred event. Okay. Okay. One factor we want to make sure we consider again. I imagine this is most valuable for people who haven’t done this much or at all. We need to make provisions for the folks who aren’t able to run or walk, but they’re going. They’re going to participate in a wheelchair or, ah, bike. So it’s one of the I don’t know what those bikes are called, but they’re they’re not your average bike, but you know, people who want to participate or need to participate, other than running and walking two, two elements to that number one, every walk run is responsible for partnering with the city in which they host their event to make sure that there’s adequate police coverage. One of the main functionalities of those police officers is to make sure that whenever that walk run participant goes through an intersection there protected from oncoming traffic. And so part of that is, Is your course flat? Or are you educating potential participants about where the hills are so that they can plan accordingly? Part of it is making sure that the police are aware when there are participants that needs special consideration, like those in a wheelchair or those that may be walking with a walker or things like that. We have also partnered with local organizations that they have runners that put some of our lung cancer survivors into these. They’re there kind of like they’re like, adult stroller type things. But they have three wheels and then the two handles on the back so that the runners can push the survivors that are unable to make it through the five k or the one k distance so that they’re able to participate in the festivities, right? Sure. Okay. Okay. Very good. And but making sure also, one of the most important things to add to your checklist as you are somebody doing a walker run is to make sure that you have first aid coverage. And for us, that has been a an organization with city where they have first aid medical medic who are on the bicycle. But it depends on where you are located and what resources are available in your city or town. But make sure that you’ve got first aid covers. Okay? Excellent admonition. Thank you. And then. So if we have this overall logistical checklist, there’s got to be sub checklists for probably each of these committees, or write each of these discreet activities were talking about. They need their own checklist with timeline and deadline absolutely going back to that part about needing to hear about something thought to seven times before acting on it. A checklist for marketing messaging that incorporates multiple different emails, multiple different social media campaigns, multiple different mentions that other events that people might be coming tio or calendar listings and things like that is huge. So a checklist for your marketing efforts is important that could in-kind clued media coverage and a timeline for how to reach out to media people. But then also a separate checklist for volunteer recruitment is huge. That volunteer coordinator needs to know where they should be sharing information and with whom. At what day. There’s not a someday on the calendar, so making sure that their specific deadlines for each step in it is huge. The exhibitor coordinator needs to know at what intervals to reach out to sponsors to see if they’re going to exhibit two. Solicit details about who needs electricity or who’s going to be bringing a ten by ten ten things like that. So the overall checklist being broken down into subjects list makes it great to delegate and have teamwork and everybody carrying a part of the load. But Mohr ever make sure that everybody is working and tamed them together so that your checklist makes sense working? Congrats, Emily. What’s your plan for crummy weather? Oh, I wish I could just stick a biodome up over the area where we’d have our event because, unfortunately, whether it’s the number one thing you cannot control and our events do happen, rain or shine. We have had some really chilly mornings because the greens for lunch forward happens in November because that’s Lung Cancer Awareness Month. But also because Veterans Day falls in November and military veterans are impacted by lung cancer a significantly higher rate. So our weather plan is threefold. Number one. We do an amazing goodie bag for each participant that has things like an extra pair of socks. Gloves that have, like the TEC tips on, Um, um, we give out to bargains are Beanies, I guess, is the new name for them. That people can wear to cover their ears in their heads. So number one is the Good East to acquit people for the weather. Number two is we do have the contingency plan that if there is a tornado coming through or lightning strikes or things like that, would you cancel the event in that place? But the third is to just educate people from the get go that our event happens. Rain or shine. OK, thank you very much. Very welcome. That was a wonderful question. I appreciate you touched tonight. Only took me twenty five minutes to achieve one. Thank you. Now all of the questions are great, that one, especially because people don’t necessarily think about the weather being something they can’t control. Your looking on your checklist, that all these great things that you can control and unfortunately, we don’t have a magic wand away just and say, Oh, we need a bright, sunny day with seventy some degree temperatures outside. Well, you’re in North Carolina, so you have a better shot at that. And lots of other parts of the country That is very well, remember, it’s a wonderful weather and November you have a better shot of that, then Lots of other places. Okay, way. Got a few minutes left, like, three minutes or so. Left. Um, well, how how early do you like to start the planning for this? We often times start as a committee with a debrief of the prior year’s event the week or so after that prior year’s event. And because our event is in November, we will do the debriefing in December in January. And then we actually start hitting the ground hard and February with making sure location is secured that our race route is is confirmed and certified that we coordinate with the city we coordinate with the police. So we started that the past couple of weeks. In January. We will hit the ground running through February, and then our committee will start having regular meetings in Mark and we start meeting every other month with people doing functionality in between those meetings on their own. And then starting in the summer, we’ll meet every month. But our with the event being in November, we make sure that the website launch is no less than six months before the event. Okay, the registration went okay. Excellent. All right. So really, you’re ITT’s a year round deal, all right? Absolutely. Family. We just have a minute left, which I need to hold you too. So what do you want to wrap up with in a minute? Make sure that you, as a leader for your event as well as everybody on your committee, understands that everybody is human and we can do the best we can. But schedules are going to change. Problems are going to arrive. There’s going to be fires to put out. So cut yourself some slack, incorporate self care and asked for help because teamwork will make everybody so much more successful. All right, That’s excellent rap, Emily. Thank you very much. Thank you. Toni. This fabulous. My pleasure. You’re right. You are fabulous. Emily Parks. She’s at Organ. The number four success and her company is organized for success. That’s the word for dot biz. Thank you again, Emily. Thank you, Tennessee. This was a pleasure. Let’s take a break. Well, your C P s. Here’s a block post for you. The differences between your nine ninety and your financial statements. Have you ever looked at these two things and seen the same word description, but there’s two different numbers, and it seems like they ought to match, especially if the same person, same companies doing the two things. But there are reasons why they don’t that and other things. Simple explanations there covered in this In this post, you goto wagner cps dot com Click Resource is then blogged. Now, Tony steak, too. Have you become a non-profit radio insider? Yes, he’s talking about it again. Oh, my God. Because that’s where you’re going to get the special access now special access to the private videos that I’m doing with guests Thiss Week with Emily. Since she’s a productivity consultant, we’re goingto do something, as as these videos always are that we did not talk about on the show. It’s not just we got a short regurgitation of what you just listen to on the show. What’s the point of that? So we’re going to talk about a productivity tip using the Eisenhower matrix, Emily and I. So that’s one example. But there’s there’s Ah, probably got six of these or so in the can that haven’t been released yet, but it’s going to be all part of part of a they will all be part of a private playlist and you get access to the playlist. But being a non-profit radio insider, how do you do that? You go to tony martignetti dot com and you click the insider alerts button. It’s so damn simple. It’s just name and email, some other podcast. It would probably charge you, but I don’t and I’m not going to. It’s not like I’m putting you on a list that you believe you’re going to get. You’re gonna get charged. I just wanted to be an insider. That’s how you get it. Okay, So you started twenty martignetti dot com. What a surprise. Let’s bring in AA step award. She’s been listening in, and, uh, she’s our social media and technology contributor. What do you know about that? She’s also the CEO. Event ten. How about that? NON-PROFIT technology? I’m sorry. Uh, well, the Non-profit technology network she’ll admonish me. Her most recent co authored book is Social Change. Anytime, everywhere about online multi-channel engagement. She’s that Amy Sample, ward dot or GE. And at Amy R. S. Ward. Welcome back, Amy. Simple word. Hi. Thank you for having me back. Actually, just as I was waiting my turn in the digital Q. Here I was looking twenty nineteen, a brand new year calling in non-profit radio. And then I was like, Wait a second. How long have I been doing this? And I just checked my email and it six and a half years. Is that, like a real thing? Absolutely. Just gave me a chill. Literally. I have a physical chill. Give me goose bumps. Yeah, because the first show you were on, we used to talk about this on the anniversary shows, but happy Toa. You know, not that that’s the only time. But so this is how I know the first show you were on was the one hundredth show. And yes, that’s what I remember that, you know, there’s searching through your Gmail can be a little difficult. So I just Tony hundreds show because I knew that the first one and yeah, that was in July of twenty twelve. That’s right. July is every every July is a new fifty new fifty more shows. Fifty show milestone and live twenty twelve. Yeah, and we’re at show four hundred. This is four hundred twenty seven or six or eight or somewhere around there. So that’s three hundred and twenty some shows and fifty shows a year would be six, seven, six years and a little less than half. You’re absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. How do we possibly have things? They still talk about you. Uh, well, you make that you make that you make that determination on, then I routinely veto them, and then you make another determined. You probably have. Come on. So true. Yeah. You probably have come up with more. Like probably like seven hundred topics. Three hundred fifty. Some shows you’ve been on. Well, of course, you have been on every week either, but But But it has been that long. It has been that many years, you know, because you know, we get along great eye. I think you don’t have to say anything if you don’t want to. Wei have a strong enough relationship that I could say you can remain silent you on the show and it’s fine. You can remain silent when I say we have a good relationship. E-giving all right. So are you calling in from the End ten office? Yes, I’m calling in from antenna H Q, where we are quite literally surrounded by boxes as we have one last week where you know different different swag, different supplies, all the you know, physical things that make the conference happen are being sent to the office and then they get all rounded up and take take to the convention center in, like, one giant truck. So right now it’s the final week of the boxes like Back-up around us. I see Right? And, of course, we’re going to talk about nineteen ntcdinosaur twenty nineteen non-profit technology conference now. In years past, when this has not been in Portland, where your physical headquarters is, would those things just have been shipped to the hotel. And so that would should save staff a lot of a lot of labor fame. It’s here in pieces because a lot of it, you know, I mean, we are somewhat conscious of the carbon footprint we’re creating by putting on a conference. So as much as we can, we use your two year so a lot of it here in our building storage and then, you know, we bring it out in package. What we need to take for that year by the stuff that we need to buy, and then it normally gets put on him one or two palace and shipped to conventions come. But since we’re in the same town, that’s not like a thing we can’t have should become falik ties the boxes and literally just drive them across the river, you know, five minutes away. But we also can’t just take it. And, you know, like behind the scenes reality of big conference planning is that convention centers and decorators have all these rules about when you can access the pre event storage when you can access, loading, dock all of that stuff and that you’re charged every time it does get access. So instead of Ah, shipper, that’s going to put it on a pallet, you know, on some big truck and go across the country and said, We have a moving company coming to move these things. And that was quite an interesting process of trying to talk to movers. And we’re like, Well, no, we’re not moving offices, but you do need to pick it up from an office. We’re still going to work here. It’s just other stuff you’re picking up, so Yeah. Okay. That’s s o. I liked the behind the scenes stuff. Um, yeah. So you said Big conference. It’s always over two thousand. You have. Ah, you have a goal for the number of its India. We have a map Wey have, like, the amount of people that can sit in chairs. So we’re currently on track to sell out at our cap of twenty. Three hundred twenty hundred. You thinkyou? Yes. You think you’ll sell out twenty three hundred? Okay. Yeah. I mean, we have we call it a calculator, but essentially, it’s all of the week by week registration data from the last, like, ten years, and it just charts it in. So every week we put in how many registrations we do have. And it calculates out what we’re on track. Tio hit. If we continue the pattern of the previous data at Tio hit our cap of twenty three hundred a head of the conference, which means we’ll have tto, you know, hang up the closed sign on registration at some point. Yeah. Turn people away. All right. So get in. So then now place to go. Of course. Is in ten dot or GE. It’s right on the right On the home page. Big band. Is there a banner across the top? Yes. Big dahna krauz stop you. And ten dot or ge. Um Okay, So what? What are what are we signing up for? What we’re getting into if we when we sign up. I’m glad you asked. You’re getting you’re signing up for all kinds of things. There is. This is my very weak attempt creating a bridge to Emily Segment. There are some community members who already organized some morning runs, and one of the lunches has a guided walk by Beth Kantor. So the NTC, then I’ll have a technology conference ISS filled with all kinds of things that I think folks expect at any conference. They’re going to tow learn, but it’s also filled with things that I think community members often don’t expect to be in a conference. So on the first hand, there’s over one hundred eighty sessions this year so that, you know, three hundred some speakers and just lots and lots of opportunities to go learn from other practitioners what they want to dio on our conference has we label sessions are in our kind of way of thinking. We’re more like categorizing them or tagging them into the five kind of categories of an organization. So program fund-raising marketing, communications it and leadership. But they don’t act as like tracks or, you know, some conferences. You sign up and you’re you have a certain job title and those of the sessions you have to go to. That’s not how it is. I can’t see anybody can go to any session, but we use those labels because since then, DCS all about technology, there could be two sessions happening at the same time, about data or about maps or whatever. But if you see that one of them is tagged as a communication session and one is tagged as a night session, it’s easier to say, Oh, well, I couldn’t see the difference between these one of these is maybe going to be more technical, and one of these is going to be about, you know, external community communications. Um, and in that same way, there are people attending all those sessions, people speaking those sessions who are from every different kind of job type, every different kind of, you know, organizational mission, big, big, huge enterprise size organizations and really small one person organizations. So wherever you are at in that world, however, many staff are on your team or what mission your organization has there will likely be someone else has that matches your reality that you could find at the conference and share and learn with them. Have you ever gotten to go to many sessions, Tony? Because you’re always also creating content. I thank you, and we’re going to talk about what I’m gonna be doing there, but no, I’ve I’ve never been. I’m proud of this. It’s just the way, because I’m on the exhibit floor capturing fantastic interviews from your speakers. I have never been to an NTC session. Although I’ve been to This will be my fourth and T C. Hold that, though. We gotta We gotta take a break. Please tell us. Can you use more money? Do you need a new revenue source Get a long stream of passive revenue? When cos you refer process their credit card transactions through Tello’s, watch the video, then you send the potential companies to watch. And of course, there’s also applies for your own credit card transactions as well. And you will get fifty percent of the fee that Tello’s earns for each transaction. Not the prophet. Did I say profit? No, I did not. Fifty percent of the fee for each transaction goes to you from the referrals you make to tell us that video you will find at the landing page for listeners at tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s All right, you gotta do the live listener love on DH. It’s going out. It’s going out. Tio, New York, New York, Brooklyn, New York. Thank you. Brooklyn and New York for Brooklyn and Manhattan being with us. Uh, let’s go. Let’s go west Phoenix, Arizona and Tampa, Florida. Well, that’s coming back east, of course. Um, and then let’s go abroad. We got We got two nations where we cannot tell the city and they’re very disparate. One is Columbia, and one is Russia. So I’m sorry I cannot dahna shout you out by city, but the live love goes naturally. It just goes, it goes to the whole country generally. And then you got the targeted and the specific and the attribution yl love directly to those listeners. And then we also got sent to Domingo in the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic. We don’t see you too often, so thank you. Thanks for being with us. Live Love to you as well. Yes. And the podcast pleasantries. Thank you very much. But I’m not finished quite yet because I have to send the podcast pleasantries. Amy, you know that That’s the that’s the vast majority of our audience thie over thirteen thousand people who listen, whatever device, whatever time whenever it fits into their life could be Could be the next couple days. Could be many weeks or even a couple of months sometimes based on the stats, and I see the loud the downloads continue. We easily weeks after and sometimes months after an episode, so That means podcast pleasantries. Tow our podcast listening audience. Now, Amy Sample Ward. Thank you for your indulgence there. Um, yeah. So non-profit radio is partnering with and is sponsored by You don’t mind if I do a lot nastad out on my own ship. Well, y you know what I’m doing Asking you? Yeah, Come on. Stony martignetti Non-profit. When did I get so polite? What is this transformation? Yeah, of course. I’m gonna be doing a video and saying more about this as we get closer. Teo Ntcdinosaur Tch is March thirteenth to fifteenth. Um, we’re sponsored by ActBlue at at the NTC Act Blue and Non-profit Radio. We’re gonna be sharing a booth with an oversized booth a ten by twenty. So come and see us. ActBlue will be there and they are the non-profit radio sponsors. As I’m capturing at least twenty five, hopefully as many as thirty interviews for later broadcast on the show. All speakers from Ntcdinosaur as people come off or sometimes before they do their session, they come and see us in the booth. And we recorded very cool interview all about using technology to make your work easier so that you can focus more on your mission and less on the the tribulations of technology. This is ntcdinosaur and ten and ntc. That’s anti tech tribulations. That could be our new catchphrase. Yeah, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t use that. I don’t think it’s for just that. They both start with T, but they don’t have the same sound. So it’s not an alliteration. It’s just two teams that don’t. So don’t don’t use that. In fact, let’s let’s talk about something that’s Ah, I thought you were going to admonish me for even even set it up so you could admonish me. So End ten is no longer the non-profit technology network. Right? Okay. Eso you’ve got You’re going the way of the American Automobile Association, the National Abortion Rights Action League, Thie, American Association of Retired Persons. All these organization that just want to be known by letters. What? Why do you do that? So we’ve always been known by letters. We’ve always been in your right hand, but I’ve always been allowed to say and ten we allowed Or we kept the Non-profit technology network a piece of it. Not that we use that ourselves, but that it was still there if you went to the website or, you know, use the logo or whatever, because people have this very strong expectation that they should get to know what the letters. I mean, you know that the letters have to be an acronym and that they need to know that I’m afraid I’m one of the one. Ultimately, even though we were saying the word stood for non-profit technology network, that wasn’t even what they stood for anyway, are actual legal name is Non-profit Technology Enterprise Network. What is Enterprised? Clearly has an organization. This wasn’t just me. You know, this is many years even more. I was here that e I did not mean anything. It’s not being used. So we just got to a place where we said, Why do we have to focus on Non-profit technology network? Which, if you didn’t know if you weren’t part of the community, just heard those three words. What do those three words means? They don’t really mean anything, right? Like they’re still not very descriptive. Um, so if the whole long words aren’t descriptive, let’s just stick with the name we already used. It’s maybe not descriptive, but neither is the long words. So let’s just go with an ten. Have that be our name and move on. Not have to spend all of this time. Oh, and then stand for this. No intense stand for no technology tribulations and stands for using technology strategically to meet real community need. Right? Like, get that piece out of there. Stop wasting time on that and just say, antennas this community in this work, and this is what we d’oh Okay, Okay, but, I mean, I think non-profit technology that part of it anyway, of the Non-profit technology network. I mean, yeah, I don’t agree. I mean, I think that’s descriptive. It says it says we’re about non-profits and we’re about technology, but Antenna doesn’t tell me even, Well, where do social enterprises sitting there? Where does that mean that we build technology or that we use technology or we endorse technology or were consultants I’m not offering. That is our perspective. But those are the questions we got all the time based on that name. Okay, because non-profit technology network could Alright, could mean a lot of different things. I was just focusing on the fact that it at least narrows it down from from brightstep. Ditigal would come to us say, Oh, it says that you you must build non-profit. You must build technologies for non-profits ru must, you know? So it’s still wass. Those words have meaning, but it’s a different meaning to all different people. And it is It wasn’t right. You build websites or something like that. Okay. Okay. So So then a newcomer Well, a newcomer would goto and ten dot or GE, presumably on. And then I guess they would quickly about. And then they would then read the text on the about Paige, right? I think it’s that simple, right? Okay. Okay. Look, very few people really care what didn’t What’s the name of the organization is what they’re coming to the website for is all the content that we have the conference looking for community groups, right? They’re coming for something else. And the name is just like where they got that article from right way. Didn’t we have received one email sense since dropping the Non-profit technology Network and on Lee going within ten, which is something we did back in November. But we have received one email from from someone that just said, You know, I’ve spent x amount of minutes I cannot find on your website what NTM stands for, and I need to know. I need to know. All right. Right. Well, did you talk about him or her off the ledge and word using technology strategically to meet your mission? It stands for deporting this community in this way. You know, you used to tell her you didn’t tell them they want and they wanted to know what? Those letters. So did you give it up? Eventually Did you say non-profit technology, Enterprise Network? Or did you refuse? I don’t know. I think I wasn’t me. That responded. I didn’t get the email. I think they may have said, You know, our founding legal name is this, but this is our D B. A. I’m not sure. All right. We just see this is This is why I, uh um Oh, yeah. No, we got time. Yeah, I’m thinking I just got a cue that we only have a minute left thinking Oh, my God. Can’t be over yet. But that’s just for a break, OK? Just for a break. Yes. Yes, of course. Way need Teo Metoo? Yes, but now we need to talk about ntcdinosaur. Uh ah. There’s more to say. And I’ve I’ve decided from from talking to Emily I think I’m going to coin this new thing W worthless host digressions because we’re there rife there with the show is rife with them today. And they do pop up from time to time. W hd is worthless. Host digressions. All right, let me take Let me take our last break. Please. Hoexter give. Can you use more money? Do you need a new revenue source. This is the second way you heard the first way before now is the second way right now. Amglobal e-giving learn about it with text. Gives five part email many course. Very simple. You get five emails over five days, dispelling myths, telling you how that it’s not as expensive as people think that the barriers are not high etcetera, including the tech barriers. Um, very easy start the many course to get it going. You text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Okay, and indeed, we do have several more minutes left, for example, Ward and ah, what else without? I was going to So what I was saying earlier we could rewind prior Tio tio. It’s hard to remember. Sometimes it’s hard to remember what came before there. So long. So long, their arduous. I was saying, There’s things people in debate, so duvette educational sessions. But the things that folks don’t necessarily anticipate that are part of what I think makes the NTC such a special event are more of the community pieces. So every day during lunch we have active sessions. So instead of a session where you would go sit in a room and hear somebody speak these air sessions where you can go do something. So there’s yoga. One day there’s going for a guided walk around around the river outside the convention center. You know things like that. You don’t need toe, bring other clothes, are you know Otherwise, Prepare for those things. You Khun, decided to him in the moment, but they’re just a different kind of peace. Um, all of the lunches and the breakfast on the last day have what we call birds of a feather. And those are things where people even now are submitting topics that they want and those then get set on the table. And anybody, you don’t just sign up for them. But you can go find one of those tables and meet other attendees and talk and those air anything from people saying, You know, I use WordPress for my website and I want to talk to other WordPress users to people who like Star Wars or people that mitt for people that like board games, eso it. It doesn’t have to just be technical topics, but that’s a really fun piece. And similarly, in the evenings we have dine around where people say, I want to go to dinner because we always need to eat dinner and you can just put your name onto a list. And these air reservations made for six people at all at, you know, delicious restaurants around town. And you don’t know the other five people. But you all get to go to dinner together and have a great dinner. And you are only responsible for buying your own food, of course, but you get to meet a couple other people in a setting that is, eh, Something needed to dio You need to eat, but be a small group. So you’re not trying to, you know, Here’s somebody ten seats down. I’m just a small group dinner. And, of course, Portland, Portland. Very well known for food here. I’m here. I’m season on the food again, like I did earlier. Yes, you make. No, we’re already trying to limit, you know, but challenge. We’re coming up with just again pulling back the curtain here to the behind the scenes is Portland Restaurant culture is mostly a no reservation culture. So the way the dying around usually work is that we have placed, you know, We’ve held reservations at restaurants, and then people can just add their name to the block. But many restaurants don’t allow reservations at all. So and that convict for tasty, delicious Portland restaurants. That way, we anticipate people want to go, too. So we’re trying to think of ways where it’s like you all are signing up with the group, but you’re just gonna walk over there and wait together for table. Might just have to be the reality, you know, right? But for a table of six, you know, that could be a bit of a weight too, right? That’s going to have fun around it. You know, we can have fun in the restaurant right now. Yeah, okay. But you know, you’re driving home the point that a lot of ntcdinosaur community driven. You keep it very open for people, Teo, contribute ideas and make ideas happen at NTC from the community. Very. Yeah, well, altum up. I mean, if you want to plan ahead and and do that kind of thing, you can. But we also wanted to be a place where people feel like they could meet somebody in the hall, start having a conversation, Realize they want to organize something and be able to have that happen while they’re still in person at the conference. Yes, that’s something I admire about Ntcdinosaur. So we have a couple of more minutes left. Of course, you goto in ten dot org’s you’ll it’ll be very obvious where to go to sign up. Are we still in the early bird pricing time, or has that passed? Oh, that passed in December. We got ten days until the regular registration rate runs out on DH. Pretty shortly after that is when we’ll be it the sellout No limit on the wait list to go up. So definitely go get your registration. And one thing we’re always asked is if they’re still opportunities to present. And the M ten session process is again kind of a community open process. People submit sessions in the summer than the community votes on them than US Steering Committee of experts based on topics vote on them, etcetera. And so that process has already happened, however, part of and then values and recognizing how strong and smart this community is that we don’t allow single speaker sessions. There is no topic that could be covered that truly. Only one human knows about it, so we don’t have sessions where just one opinion is getting shared. But however, that means there are some sessions where the person who you know is leading the session and was accepted. They don’t know somebody else that’s done a project like they have done, or they don’t know someone else who has an area of expertise like they have. So we have a page on the website. Anybody can see that lists any sessions where the speaker has currently told us they want help finding another speaker. So if you want to go, that page changes every day. But if folks want to go to that additional speakers page in the program section of the website and take a look. And if there’s a topic there that you know about, you can fill out the form and suggest yourself as their co presenter. Awesome, yes, So there there is still that opportunity. Wonderful. All right, so that’s Ah, twenty nineteen, the nineteen ntcdinosaur course. That’s the Hashtag ninety ninety SI Portland, Oregon at the Convention Center in Portland, March thirteenth, the fifteenth Come See me and Act Blue and non-profit radio together in a booth. Um, any sample board, of course, will be one of the guests that will be interviewing. And they’ll be twenty four to twenty nine other guests of panels. Panels that, Amy. That’s true. You’re the only single that I do interview at NTC sometimes. Well, actually, sometimes it’s a panel, but only one person could show up. It could be a panels two or three, but only one. But that’s rare. It’s quite rare, like one or two others. Maybe it’s always at least two people be for the probably eighty percent of the interview interviews that I captured there. All right, we have to wrap that up. Thank you so much. Amy and I will see you. I’LL see you in March. I can’t wait to see you. Great. Thank you very much. She’s Amy Sample Ward Amy sample war dot org’s and at Amy R. S Ward, you goto and ten dot org’s to sign up for nineteen Auntie si next week. Financial fraud with Tiffany couch. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com insiders, you’ll be hearing increasing your productivity with the Eisenhower Matrix with Emily Parks. Get those videos sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner. CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers regular cps dot com Bye. Tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. 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