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Nonprofit Radio for January 31, 2020: CEO/Chair Relationship

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My Guests:

Alex Counts: CEO/Chair RelationshipYour CEO and board chair need to forge and maintain a strong partnership. Alex Counts shows us how. He’s a consultant, and founder of Grameen Foundation.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward: #20NTC
Amy Sample Ward, CEO of NTEN and our technology and social media contributor, joins for a quick chat on the 2020 Nonprofit Technology Conference. Nonprofit Radio will be there and you should too!

 

 

 

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[00:00:14.14] spk_2:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit

[00:00:16.74] spk_0:
radio big non profit ideas for the

[00:00:19.67] spk_2:
other 95%.

[00:00:44.44] spk_0:
I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown in taquito amino acid E mia If you brought me down with the sappy idea that you missed today’s show CEO chair relationship, your CEO and board chair need to forge and maintain a strong partnership. Alex Counts shows us how he’s a consultant and founder of Grameen Foundation on

[00:00:48.09] spk_2:
Tony’s Take. Two planned giving for the decade were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali

[00:01:18.14] spk_0:
Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant er Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Now let’s, uh, meet Alex counts Pleasure to welcome him. He’s adjunct professor of public policy at the University of Maryland and a non profit consultant. He’s founder of Grameen Foundation, which has grown to become a leading international humanitarian

[00:01:31.93] spk_2:
organization. He’s got a book Changing

[00:01:41.95] spk_0:
the World Without Losing Your Mind. Leadership lessons from three decades of social entrepreneurship, which is a chronicle of philanthropy. Editor’s pick. He’s at Alex counts dot

[00:01:47.38] spk_2:
com and at Alex counts. What was your name again? Alex counts. Thank

[00:01:49.06] spk_4:
you. It’s great to be here.

[00:01:53.22] spk_2:
Pleasure. Thank you for coming into the city on the studio. Um, tell us about the founding

[00:01:58.65] spk_0:
of Grameen Foundation. Interesting roots in Bangladesh.

[00:02:00.69] spk_4:
Yeah, I was is a college student. I was taken with the work Mohammad Yunus was doing to empower the destitute women of Bangladesh through micro credit, and he would go on to win the Nobel Prize. But I kind of it was Grameen Bank. That was Grameen Bank. And I had this vision in college of If we could take his model and exported to other countries where there is poverty, that would be could be a real breakthrough. It was simplistic, but and I But it was basically a good idea. And so I went in, apprenticed with him for about a decade in Bangladesh, and then I Then I said at one point, it’s time to start kind of an international hub for helping people apply the Grameen Bank ideas to other countries. And so he said, Well, here’s $6000 which I thought was a lot of money to start an organization with. It wasn’t but we were just kind of on a wing and a prayer started What became growing foundation in 97 on Guy was completely unprepared and all sorts of ways to run a non profit and start one. But we went forward and it worked out.

[00:03:07.30] spk_0:
You you say sort of hastily because you’ve got a lot going on. You had a lot going on 10 years living in Bangladesh. You fluent in de she Bengali Bangla. Is it Bangalore? Bengali? Is it? It’s It’s

[00:03:11.32] spk_4:
Bengali and English. It’s Bangla in being Ali.

[00:03:14.13] spk_3:
Okay, Um,

[00:03:15.10] spk_2:
I’ve been

[00:03:21.23] spk_0:
there. I spent I spent two weeks between Bangladesh just in Dhaka and Sir Lanka, which is also a beautiful country. Yeah,

[00:03:23.50] spk_2:
my sense of Bangladesh

[00:03:24.46] spk_0:
was ah, lot of poverty and a lot of very hardworking people. Thes tiny businesses in the micro stalls is I’m thinking of old DACA, but people working hard and you know, whatever their niche was, uh I

[00:03:39.12] spk_2:
saw a lot of hard working, dedicated people,

[00:04:10.25] spk_4:
Absolutely both in the cities and in the rural countryside where I spent a lot of my time and learn. That’s why I really learned Bengali well, but it is my mentor and board chair, Susan Davis. So I met in Bangladesh. She was a Ford Foundation representative and I was, Ah, Fulbright scholar initially, and she said, Listen, Alex, she’s a lot of these pithy statement She said, In a country that doesn’t have enough jobs, by far doesn’t have a social safety net. You have two choices. You work for yourself tiny undercapitalized business in most cases or you starve. And so people, whether they’re intramural ability, is robust or more limited. Starvation is not a great option. So people try to start these tiny businesses.

[00:04:22.68] spk_0:
That’s when I saw yeah, s O. That’s the micro micro lending. And then Mohammed as and all I can imagine, what someone could do with it isn’t even $1000. Is that too much?

[00:05:00.83] spk_4:
So the loans for the first decade of Grameen were typical. Loan was about $70. So your way you’re buying, you know, five chickens and you know you know how to raise chickens. But you never had more money to have more than one u five chickens. You sell the eggs, you pay off the loan with the sales of the eggs. And at the end of the year, you have five chickens that air your asset maybe more assets than you’ve ever had a productive assets you’ve ever had in your life. And Mohammad Yunus is in sight. Was but build a banking system that can actually be viable through making $70 loans and then $100 loans if they pay back and later, larger amounts on and and And that was the essence of his brilliant innovation.

[00:05:15.94] spk_0:
And you were, You were how many years that Green Foundation as founder and CEO

[00:05:21.27] spk_4:
18 years s. I ran it for its 1st 18 years. It was a It was a fantastic ride. And again when we finally started, get some headway is when I realized that a couple things that I need to be fundraiser in chief. That wasn’t something I could delegate and that I needed to craft a very important relationship with my board share.

[00:05:40.90] spk_2:
And those

[00:05:42.86] spk_4:
two insights probably where the, you know, helped us reach kind of escape velocity and get it to erase 10 $2025 million in the year, as opposed to remain a little tiny, non

[00:05:51.46] spk_0:
profit. What a skilled guest you bring in the board. The board chair relationship so smoothly. So not like the boorish host of the show. We’re just abruptly changed course.

[00:06:04.48] spk_2:
All right, so, uh, yeah, so we’re here to talk about Well, you know, we’ll shout

[00:06:08.30] spk_0:
out your book a couple times, uh, changing the world without losing your mind. But

[00:06:12.67] spk_2:
we want to focus

[00:06:23.81] spk_0:
on something that I saw an article that you had written in The Chronicle of Philanthropy about the CEO board chair relationship. Susan Davis was one of your one of your chair. Was she your first? She’s my

[00:06:28.99] spk_4:
third chair. But when we finally I finally got the relationship right was with her, and I give her most of the credit for that. I kind of fumbled it with the 1st 2 board chairs, mainly my fault on dhe. She helped me kind of figure out how to make that just a magical relationship

[00:06:43.90] spk_0:
on dhe critical to the success of an organization you saw Grameen on. You felt it. You saw it and felt it in your relationship with Susan. You saw the organization benefiting and you felt it personally.

[00:07:44.00] spk_4:
I had an ally. I wasn’t so alone. She gained my trust on She would sometimes, you know, step in and do things that I was either incapable of doing or just didn’t have the skills. I mean, it’s just a perfect relationship on. And, you know, she wasn’t the prototypical white male businessman in their sixties with a lot of money, but she brought other assets, and and then, you know, we were ableto have a more traditional board chairs coming after her. But she was in the roll for six and 1/2 years, and she, you know, the the article you mentioned in The Chronicle of Philanthropy. The origin of that was I was giving a talk at The Chronicle about my book and about how I went from a completely underprepared non profit executive director, succeeding on some level. And I just kept coming back to my relation with Susan on then the couple of four chairs that followed her, and they said, Would you write an article on that on that you you mentioned so many times you’re talking? I said I’d be thrilled to, and It was a pretty narrow topic, but it got a good response and got me here to be talking with you.

[00:08:10.38] spk_0:
Your life has led you to this moment. All points of it’s all downhill from here. Pretty much non profit radio. I feel bad after our lunch, then

[00:08:11.79] spk_4:
downwardly mobile life.

[00:08:13.24] spk_0:
I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Uh,

[00:08:19.52] spk_2:
all right. So let’s talk about, um Well, the let’s get into some of your some

[00:08:22.27] spk_0:
of your advice around this around this relationship, you siphoned it down into 10. I don’t know if we’ll get time for 10 because we want to talk a little about Cem Cem, General governance. But

[00:08:32.03] spk_2:
why don’t we, uh why don’t we just

[00:08:39.14] spk_0:
tease the 1st 1? We got a minute before before first break about, um, respect the chair needs to earn respect if that the

[00:09:14.59] spk_4:
chair is seen is just a kind of a defender of the CEO, uhm, and someone who’s just tryingto make his or her life easy and keep the bored out of their hair or in any other way doesn’t really have the respect to the board. Then his or her job is much harder because the board chair is kind of a liaison between the staff and the executive director and the rest of the board. And that board share has to earn the respect of both parties in order. Play that bridging role effectively. And Susan did it. Sometimes people do it by writing $1,000,000 checks, but Susan didn’t have that at her disposal of time. So she did it in other ways but was able to get earn the respect of me and the staff. But very importantly, the the rest of the board.

[00:09:24.62] spk_0:
All right, I’ve seen board chairs that were wealthy and wrote big checks and still didn’t have the respect of the board. So if there’s respect based on that, I think it’s kind of shallow and it doesn’t necessarily follow even. Okay, let’s take our first

[00:09:38.40] spk_2:
break wegner-C.P.As They go beyond the numbers. They’ve got videos, effective governance.

[00:09:43.61] spk_0:
For starters. We’re gonna talk a little about that toward the end of the show. Um,

[00:09:47.70] spk_2:
also i nine

[00:09:51.74] spk_0:
tips. If you happen to have immigrant employees, they’ve also got a video on high impact grant

[00:09:53.83] spk_2:
proposals, sexual harassment awareness, way beyond the numbers. This is not just

[00:10:16.94] spk_0:
your average accountancy, for God’s sake, on other videos, you gotta wegner-C.P.As dot com, Click Resource Is and recorded events. I just got late breaking news that Amy Sample Ward will be calling in around the bottom of the hour. Onda will spend about five minutes talking about 20 NTC, the 2020 non profit technology conference, which is in coming up in March in Baltimore. So I know you wanna hear her at the bottom of the hour. Um, in the meantime, let’s go back to ah CEO chair relationship.

[00:10:33.01] spk_2:
Yes. Oh, I don’t I don’t think

[00:10:40.81] spk_0:
money first necessarily creates respect, And if it does, I think it’s a kind of a shallow Well, it’s one

[00:10:42.10] spk_4:
thing to earn. The respect is the board share. You have to show that you’re invested. Ah, and so Susan would show that by showing up prepared by doing her homework. Talking with Helio money and writing a check that is meaningful for someone and meaningful for the organization is another way. But you’re right. It’s no way incomplete. You need to be a fair minded. You need to kind of promote the right kind of dialogue of the board level craft agendas that makes sense that you know, Don’t don’t let the board becoming their micromanaging or rubber stamp, but occupy that really nice middle ground. Yeah, it’s All I’m saying is, is that it’s possible to earn the respect of the board, even with bored with some wealthy people. If you’re yourself aren’t personally wealthy by doing other things on that, some people I think some people just regard it is you know you need the board. Share is just absolute mandatory to be made your wealthiest person, the board and I might have thought that. But I saw that. It doesn’t need to be.

[00:11:38.93] spk_0:
Yeah, I would reject

[00:11:42.13] spk_3:
that. Um, by

[00:11:42.47] spk_0:
the same token, you do want the board chair tohave the back of the CEO in times of crisis. Well,

[00:11:56.76] spk_4:
right? I mean, people, you know, have all non profit CEOs if, unless they’re completely risk of hers, make mistakes, mismanaged things mismanage external relationships on dhe, you know, it’s it’s, I think when our new chairs in place, how they react to the first time that happens on whether they both publicly and privately support the CEO on dhe make them feel secure in the aftermath of their bungle eyes. Probably a lot will determine. A lot of everything will go after that on Susan. You know, a time would come maybe six months later, where Susan would talk with me and her successors, who are also very good and say, you know, that thing that you did in six months ago? They didn’t work out, you know? What did you learn from it? Andi? Are we Do we have things in place to prevent that from happening again? But at the time when you’re at your low point and at risk of making further poor decisions in the aftermath of trying to cover up or deal with one bad decision, having the board share be empathetic and supportive and not pointing a finger is I found a central

[00:12:54.10] spk_0:
is the board is looking to them for leadership. You know howto way still behind this CEO or are we not?

[00:13:19.11] spk_4:
How do we digest this, right? And then that’s where the board chair’s leadership did not gloss over. It does not say this mistake was meaningless, but also not to say panic, but to say I’m on top of this. I’m gonna disclose to you the board what’s going on in a level appropriate to your role. I’m working with the E D. And

[00:13:19.32] spk_2:
now if it’s

[00:13:19.72] spk_4:
a life endangering mistake for the organization that it might go under,

[00:13:24.10] spk_2:
then I think

[00:14:07.87] spk_4:
you need to take a little different tact. But if it’s just a setback and embarrassing though it may be, you know you need to really inspire confidence in everyone. But also just, you know, to get the best out of the CEO of the executive director. You know, first and foremost is have them feel like you’re their ally, not someone who’s trying to, you know, embarrassed. And I’ve seen this. I’ve served on boards for all you have and others listeners have board shares to whatever. There’s a mistake. They feel it’s kind of a public embarrassment for them, and their job is to avoid blame themselves. Maybe they have public standing, and then that that has on and particularly that could kind of poison the relationship with the E D. You know, nothing flat. Yeah.

[00:14:09.12] spk_2:
Do you? You have a

[00:14:20.00] spk_0:
preference for executive director versus CEO? I’ve had guests prefer the CEO. Others say it doesn’t really matter much. Do you have ah preference, you

[00:15:06.71] spk_4:
know, in the organization’s I’ve served in. It’s been I’ve been the president and CEO. There’s some executive directors that aren’t the chief executive officer that sometimes is the chair in executive chair. That’s interesting. So Esso and again I’m not. I’m not a super techno person on this, but I think smaller nonprofits tend to be. You talk about AIDS on, and sometimes they don’t have a vote at the board level, whereas in large organizations, that tends to be a president CEO with a non executive chair. And I’m just, you know, and even when grooming Foundation was small, somehow we adopted that nomenclature, which at the time I didn’t care about or think it all about. I was just trying to raise enough money to pay this, you know, costs the next month. But anyway, that’s that. That’s what we adopted. Yeah,

[00:15:10.49] spk_2:
okay, but now you have the

[00:15:13.66] spk_0:
luxury of looking back and snickering. That’s right! And admitting that the first to board chairs the relationships warrant as robust, as supportive as they could have been made

[00:15:22.92] spk_2:
at the time,

[00:15:26.10] spk_4:
I viewed the board and managing my relation with the chair, and fundraising is kind of necessary. Evils not, is not as something to be the cornerstone of building the organization. That was That was my fundamental mistake until I finally got it right.

[00:15:37.80] spk_2:
Let’s talk a little about

[00:15:46.84] spk_0:
selection of, ah, board chair. Do you like to see it come from? The board would like to see. I’ve seen organizations that have a assistant assistant chair, rice chair, vice chair, executive vice chair, and then it’s presumed that they’re gonna move into the chair. You like to see that kind of

[00:15:56.58] spk_2:
ladder? Well, first,

[00:16:44.61] spk_4:
I think every rule in terms of building aboard you should be, you know, willing almost every really should be willing to break. So one point. We had a very well known, very wealthy person joining our board, and we thought about installing them his chair for more or less the moment that joined the board. And that might have worked. But we didn’t didn’t come to pass, but in general I think you want someone of your chair who served on your board with distinction for, you know, three or four years at least. I like the idea of a vice chair, but I’m a little out made out of the mainstream on this I don’t think that vice chair should necessarily be the chair elect. I’d like to see a vice chair in that role really perform so that they earn the chair. Roll a za po. And that’s why sometimes having to vice chairs, I’ve seen that work nicely. But oftentimes the vice chair is

[00:16:47.08] spk_0:
the two vice chairs are sort of competing to be that really like we friendly competition for the chair shit. German ship.

[00:16:53.76] spk_6:
It’s a

[00:16:56.00] spk_4:
secondary aspect. Yeah, it’s Ah, a TTE The point We had our vice chair on the West Coast and I thought that having a second vice chair who was quite busy when entered a And

[00:17:05.04] spk_5:
that’s what one

[00:17:05.41] spk_4:
things that happens. You can’t predict a vice Jared chair can enter the role in a semi retirement, have a lot of time to put in. And next thing you know, they’re appointed as happened to me, a CZ the as the CEO of a publicly traded company and their ability to put time in is changed. So we we had a vice chair who was the dean of ah of a university in a university on the West Coast. I said, Well, what if we had a vice chair on the East Coast also to kind of cover this part of the country and on. So that worked.

[00:17:34.62] spk_2:
But in another way, was

[00:17:35.89] spk_4:
a kind of let’s, let’s see, between the two of them, which one of them, you know, is it inspires the confidence of the board on shows the commitment that would make them the ideal. You know, successor chair.

[00:17:48.14] spk_2:
How do you like to

[00:18:10.16] spk_0:
break in? I think my voice just crack. How’d you? 14. Huh? How? Let’s give some authoritative. Ah, tony. Er, how do you like to, uh ah, inaugurate the relationship? New chair? You presumably. As you’re suggesting. You know, if you worked with him 3 to 4 years, So the non new person to you. But I knew in that relationship. You in that position.

[00:18:12.91] spk_2:
How do you like to

[00:18:13.67] spk_0:
kick off the that new relationship? Well,

[00:18:17.02] spk_4:
in an ideal world and running a nonprofit where you never have enough resource is and you’re always trying to cram 14 months of work into 12 months and you can always do this.

[00:18:26.54] spk_2:
But an ideal

[00:18:26.99] spk_4:
world. I’d like to spend a good kind of a good day with the person you know, both with a structured agenda and somewhat unstructured, maybe going to a baseball game together just to really get to know them and bond with them, if that’s possible. On

[00:18:39.97] spk_2:
the other

[00:18:40.21] spk_4:
thing that kind of evolved. This is, you know, I’m thinking back what work is that each board share wanted gonna put their stamp on the their leadership not to not to just contradict or do something different than what the prior wanted done, but

[00:18:55.72] spk_2:
something that

[00:18:56.11] spk_4:
they had seen. Maybe work in another non profit or in the corporate sector. And

[00:18:59.91] spk_2:
I would just

[00:20:59.49] spk_4:
say, unless it didn’t make any sense to me. I said, Let’s let’s do that Let’s you know this person didn’t kind of imposed this idea when they were, say, vice chair, just to give you two examples. You Bob bike Feld, who succeeded Susan in the role he thought that it was. It was a very important from a governess perspective to gather a couple board leaders and the head and our general counsel on me every six months to basically evaluate the performance of each and every board member in person and on, and so and you know when people were doing really well. So well, let’s let’s prepare a resolution commending them at the next meeting. Will we draft that if the person wasn’t referring? Well, well, who’s gonna take them aside? We’ve never done that before. But it was just something he thought you know would work. And I just said, You know, you want to bring that in. This is gonna be one of your signature things that comes in your first year. I’m totally behind it. Let’s make it happen. Or another thing he wanted is for me to bring in that. Susan wasn’t kind of didn’t That wasn’t her style, but it’s like let let Bob lead the way he wants to. And let me not just grudgingly say, OK, I’ll do that if you want, But I think this could be a great idea. And you, Bob also pushed me to write for the first time emergency succession plan, which I embarrassed to say that, you know, 10 years in the Grameen Foundation, I had never even know what that was. But and he said, you know, write, write up a memo for those of your listeners and aren’t aware you know, what should we do if you’re suddenly incapacitated or killed? And and so I put it off for a while, it was more confronting than I thought, but I finally did get it done. And that was something he achieved in his first year. Um, and again I was I was just kind of trusted that that was something of useful. And I put my full attention to kind of implementing a couple of ideas that he had and and when every new board chair came in, they kind of had a few ideas. And I would just unless they sound crazy to me and I I need to get the convinced I would just, you know, not just back from kind of half heartedly, but fully

[00:21:01.64] spk_2:
say some more about

[00:21:02.28] spk_0:
the semi annual board evaluate individual board member evaluation process.

[00:21:07.64] spk_2:
Well, you know,

[00:21:19.90] spk_4:
we would gather on a table. I think we did it a few times. That can recall, and it was no one ever called in. Our vice chair flew in from San Diego for it. We did it in Washington and literally, you know, it was just it was sickness. See,

[00:21:22.95] spk_2:
one of the

[00:21:23.40] spk_4:
things I’ve come to believe that came from Susan. The Before Bob is that term limits are

[00:21:29.14] spk_2:
kind of

[00:21:31.76] spk_4:
a quick fix kind of mandate, and that really what you want board members to do is to is to kind of go through their orientation and

[00:21:37.70] spk_2:
then to go

[00:22:09.31] spk_4:
into a period of what I call High Performance is a board member where they’re giving it their all their money, their time, their reputation, their con connections, etcetera. And then ultimately, all board members, I think, ultimately go into what is called coasting, where they’re just they’re not really giving their all because their interest is in another organization. And so Bob’s this term limits air saying, Well, most people go to coasting after six years, so let them just term out at six years. But the truth is, some people term out. Some people go into that mode after 18 months, and some are going strong in 18 years. So this was a mechanism to just evaluate the kind of the wherein the life cycle was each individual on the board where what should they be commended for? On what should they maybe be taken aside and said, you know, board member ex. You know, if you could get back to performing like you did four years ago in terms of showing up prepared, participating discussions, your committee assignments, raising money, giving money, You know, we think you should re up for the board when your turn comes up. But if not you, maybe not. Ah, and that can’t be done. The blunt instrument of term limits or other things. This

[00:22:42.14] spk_2:
is this. We would

[00:23:01.77] spk_4:
spend 34 hours together evaluating every single person aboard. And how might we support them better. But how might we ask them to support us more? And you can’t? You can’t take a cookie cutter to that. And so it was. It was a pretty rigorous process, but it was. It worked, and it made the team that was at the table. They’re just feel like they were in a position to, and it had them participate differently. This is the vice chair chair of the Governance Committee and the general counsel me in the chair. You know, we would then pay attention. More panel, evaluating each number individually, correct. And

[00:23:17.25] spk_2:
and then once you start

[00:23:54.67] spk_4:
that, then you know, you kind of observe the board in a different way. When you know you’re gonna be six months later doing that again and you start to think, Gosh, might I pull this board member aside even now and commend them or redirect them a little bit even if I’m not the chair? Because I know that this evaluation and it creates a kind of accountability because we told the board that we were doing this. It wasn’t done in secret eso it was rather than have ah, this kind of straitjacket of term limits. We created this kind of culture of accountability, of board that just brought out the best in people. And when their interests moved on, they kind of voluntarily said, You know, this will be my final term and thank you all for whether I served for three years or 13 years on it. Just for me. It worked a lot better.

[00:24:20.39] spk_0:
Your ah contrary and in terms of the mainstream, thinking about board term limits, yes, but you have this important semi annual evaluation as well, so that a CZ your nerves, you said people will either recognize that they’re not performing, or they’ll bluntly be told that they’re not performing TX stations,

[00:24:27.96] spk_4:
right? That’s and it takes effort on

[00:24:29.76] spk_2:
because this is a lot of time

[00:24:30.60] spk_0:
commitment. How big? I’m sure the Grameen board grew over time when you left. How many people, you

[00:24:36.52] spk_6:
know, I like

[00:24:37.33] spk_0:
value waiting. Yeah, I’ve heard of much

[00:25:10.86] spk_4:
smaller and much larger board’s working, although I’m not quite sure how. But I think the optimal number aboard if they’re one of the responsibilities is raising money. The optimal number is between 15 and 20 and that’s what it was for almost the entirety of my time there, I think over 20 you get some negative dynamics, including, you know, people don’t show up. They’re not even noticed because the numbers are too big. And if you get under 15 you know, you really need a lot more fundraising muscle than you unless you just have a bunch of billionaires on the board. And so it was always. It was always in the high teens on, though I gave myself authority to have up to 25 on the bylaws, but gave us authority. But we never we will always, always between 15 and 20 right?

[00:25:23.08] spk_2:
So this is a big time

[00:25:23.82] spk_0:
commitment because Now you’re doing between 30 and 40 evaluations per year because you’re evaluating each person semi annually and several hours devoted to, ah, a conversation with each one twice a

[00:25:46.59] spk_4:
year. And the follow up that you promise, saying they’re there that after each board member would just say so what feedback or what? Commendation or accolade or redirection, Do we need to give this board member based on our discussion and that that would mostly fall to the five of us in the room

[00:26:01.15] spk_0:
and there was implicit in that s o. Some board members are getting commended on brothers or not, but we all know that we’re all being evaluated. So when it comes time for commendations, some names air left out, that’s where it was only,

[00:26:06.05] spk_4:
um, you know, it was

[00:26:06.63] spk_6:
only twice

[00:26:55.17] spk_4:
in our history where we actually had to take a board member side and urged them, not Thio run for re election. So if when this works well, it’s really becomes an informal accountability process where people opt out before they have to be kind of pushed out. And, uh um, and yet you need to be willing to do that if the time comes, and in one case, you know, way took a board member aside and we just said, It’s you know, it’s time for you to step aside and is interesting He said it that years later he told me he said, Well, as mad as hell at the time, but you and the chair were right. I just couldn’t see it then. And eso it’s that magical thing where people basically, whenever there flames, starts to be not so bright for in terms of the, you know, being a champion of the board, they just they know it and they and everyone knows it. And they just say again, Allah, I’ll serve out my term and I’ll step down and again whether that’s three years into their service or 15 years, it’s just based on. Are they giving it their best? And

[00:27:10.43] spk_2:
not

[00:27:10.61] spk_4:
everyone you know people’s interests move on. I mean, it’s a natural human phenomenon. Yeah,

[00:27:17.33] spk_0:
yeah. Very interesting. Interesting process. You mentioned election of board re election of board members. That was that not managed by an executive committee just deciding whether someone would remain Who were the electors, the whole board, the

[00:28:36.84] spk_4:
whole the whole board Now there’s a nominating what we close it in our model. We had both the governance committee that worked on our kind of internal governance, and the nominating committee was merged in the same committee and another boards I’ve been on Those are two separate things and on and, you know, when you only have 15 18 members. There are only so many committees you can have when your larger boards could have more. But yeah, it, in this case, the default was when someone’s three year term came up. Um, you think the default is that they’re gonna be reelected if they want to be. But there is a process that again the governance committee chair is part of that group that is, that meets every six months on day would take what are our discussions and bring them into the governance committee. Um, but Maur, I think that committee was more about adding new people to the board more of the nominating committee, but But ultimately every board meeting or every other board meeting, if someone’s three year term was up, they would be reelected or more than likely, or they would prior to that announced that they weren’t seeking re election and it would be handled that way. Okay.

[00:28:38.92] spk_3:
Okay. Um,

[00:28:40.17] spk_2:
let’s ah, let’s take,

[00:29:30.12] spk_0:
uh, let’s take this break. And, uh, if you wanna you got a little longer in this break, And now we’re gonna talk to Amy Sample Ward as well. So, uh, stand by. Don’t go anywhere, though, Okay? You don’t have time to go to the bathroom. Just drink water, bathroom breaks or later, uh, his break quote. We’ve been very happy with Cougar Mountain. It’s rare to encounter a problem with the software, but they’re always there to help walk. Help me walk through it. End Quote that Sally Hancock in Altoona, Pennsylvania, Maur raves about the Cougar Mountain customer service. Cougar Mountain has a free 60 day trial, which is on the listener landing page, which is at now time for Tony’s Take two. Your decade plan for planned giving. Um, this is not only the beginning of a new year, which is now close to 1/12 over already, but that means that we’re nearly 1 144th of the way into the new decade. So my, uh, belief is my It’s more than a belief. It’s almost Fact,

[00:29:49.25] spk_2:
if you start

[00:30:01.17] spk_0:
your planned giving program this year, you are gonna be astronomically ahead, and you’re gonna be you’re gonna be shocked at where you are by the year 2029. Those 10 years

[00:30:07.79] spk_2:
you’ll be you’ll be at

[00:30:21.72] spk_0:
a point where you can be projecting planned giving revenue for future years based on the revenue that you will have had in like years. 6789 That’s how far ahead you will be in plant giving and you think plan giving that. You know, people die. The gifts come, but we don’t know when those when those episodes air gonna happen. Yeah, but once your file is large enough, once you have enough planned giving donors in your file, you’re gonna start to see trends. And of course, you can’t predict to the dollar amount.

[00:30:46.78] spk_2:
But you can give yourself some comfort with a range that you expect to receive in cash each year,

[00:31:22.81] spk_0:
going forward from really like your 789 and forward, but certainly from your 10 on. So my urging is that you if you are not doing plan giving fundraising 2020 is the year to start the beginning of the decade. I say a lot more about this in a video, which is your decade plan for playing, giving. I lay out the plan. I don’t just say where you’re gonna be in a decade. I show you how to get there step year by year in the video, which is at tony-martignetti dot com. And that is tony. Take two now. Uh, late breaking. Let’s bring in Amy Sample Ward. She’s the CEO of and 10 and our social media and technology contributor. And

[00:31:44.64] spk_2:
we’re going to spend a few minutes talking about what’s coming up at 20 NTC. The 2020 non profit Technology conference. Welcome back, Amy. Sample Ward

[00:31:46.85] spk_7:
Bake. I’m happy to be on happy 2020.

[00:32:02.29] spk_2:
Thank you very much. Yes, indeed. First time we’ve talked this year. Um, it’s not too late to say Happy New Year because we know each other so well. And, uh, I haven’t seen you Haven’t talked to you since January 1st. So happy New Year. Happy, happy, Happy decade as well.

[00:32:05.44] spk_7:
Well, And where we’ve just started the Chinese New Year. So

[00:32:10.41] spk_0:
indeed, Yes, Yes, indeed. Balloon. You’re here. Um,

[00:32:13.04] spk_2:
so we’ve got this little thing coming up. It’s not

[00:32:24.41] spk_0:
so little, um, being snarky. It’s in Baltimore in March 2020. Non profit technology conference hosted by and 10 non profit radio will be there on the exhibit

[00:32:29.49] spk_2:
floor. But before we get to that, you tell us what? What? Why should

[00:32:31.89] spk_0:
we be attending?

[00:33:07.15] spk_7:
Oh, my gosh. I am really excited for this year because I think, as you know, you’ve You’ve been a handful of times now, so you can probably speak to this yourself too. But every year we’re always trying to make it better than it was, of course, the year before. And each year we feel like, Okay, this is the best we’ve ever done it. But how could we make it better? And I think we’ve got some really good plans this year that do that. Of course we have. You know, this is a big three day conference there, 2200 plus people altogether. And it doesn’t have to be, you know, just one type of non profit or one type of job in an organization. If you are listening to this, you are welcome at the number of

[00:33:17.73] spk_2:
probably

[00:33:18.57] spk_7:
that you could learn and do there

[00:33:19.84] spk_0:
It is not only for technologists, not only for technologists,

[00:35:24.80] spk_7:
right? Well, I mean, it’s 2020. Everyone in a non profit is using technology, right? Like it doesn’t. It doesn’t really matter how what your job titles has on your business card. There’s pieces of technology you need to use or make decisions about to be effective in your job on. There’s folks from every job title and people who have been in the sector for a year, and people have been in it for 40 years. You know, it’s it’s really like a cross section of everybody, Um, and we have over 150 sessions, so plenty of opportunity to go learn. But outside of that, something that we feel makes the NTC really specialists. How many opportunities there are for you to meet other people and share ideas or come to the conference of that one burning question like you just wish you could find somebody that’s figured out a way to get mail chimp to do that One thing you know, like we want to make sure you really do find that one other person. So we have a lot of kind of community based programs that happen as part of the agenda, and we have even more of them this year. We’ve We’ve always had what we call birds of a feather. So you know, funny things like people will do. You know, people who love watching a certain TV show or something as a table topic at lunch. But other people will do things like, you know, they use a certain tool or something so they can all meet each other and chat. But in the afternoons we’ve started this year what we’re calling knowledge swaps where they’re Maur intentional. They are about, you know, something work related, something you want to do something You’re having a challenge with, something that you just did really well And you want to make sure you can share that knowledge with other people so folks can sign up to basically, like, find other folks and hosted a conversation together on the topics a little bit easier than saying you want to present for 75 minutes for a session, right? Like maybe you just want to find four other folks and share ideas. So we built that into the agenda each day on and we’ve also expanded our career center. That isn’t just for people looking for jobs. A really big part of the community of the career center is mentorship. So being able to sit down with somebody for happen our and share feedback, whether it’s about their resume or it’s about, you know, the evolution in your own career. So what? Whatever side of that coin that you would be on the career center has lost of opportunities for you, um, and would love for folks to be a part of that.

[00:35:51.11] spk_0:
Okay, um, we just have, like, a minute in a minute or so left, so details of registration. Where do we

[00:35:58.54] spk_2:
go with the dates? Radio? Don’t even say the day everything. But the date is today.

[00:36:10.72] spk_7:
Yes, the dates are March 24th 26 it’s in Baltimore. At the convention center. There’s hotels of all the various price points, whatever place you have, a membership number two, whatever, all around the convention center, and you can go toe intend that orc Slash and T. C. You can see the full agenda. You can review some of those community programs I was talking about. We’ve got Rachel Affinity Spaces support for folks who want prayer room, meditation spaces, lactation access. All of those things are part of our conference. So we really want it to be something that folks are ready to learn and meet other people and talk. This is a resource for you. And if there’s a way we can make it easier support you being able to participate, we will do everything we can to do that. So please Goto intend that work slash NPC. Check it out. If you need anything, let us know. But hopefully we see you in March.

[00:37:05.76] spk_0:
This is an excellent conference. Yeah, I’ve been there. I think this is the sixth year.

[00:37:10.06] spk_2:
Do you think I think it’s the 60

[00:37:20.04] spk_0:
year I’ve brought the show, so we will be on the exhibit floor where were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software at the conference. So we’ll be side by side. We’ll be getting. I’ll be getting 30 plus interviews. Last year I got 32 interviews in two and 1/2 days, and then we air them. That

[00:37:28.44] spk_7:
must have been a record. 30.

[00:37:45.78] spk_0:
32 is the is the largest I’ve gotten. Yeah, it had been like 25 27 or so, but so were booked up. Eso. When you’re at the conference, come on the exhibit floor. I believe you’ll see us in boots 5 10 and 5 12 On DDE comes he’s come Say hello will be the noisy one with probably with spotlights, because we might shoot video. So but very smart, very smart speakers in lots of different topics around technology. And Amy’s Point is, I want to drive home. We’re all technologists. It regardless of what it says on your business card, you’re no longer using index cards and transparencies. You know, the overhead projectors. They’re gone. We’re all using technology, and this conference is for people at all different levels. Whether it’s on your in your job title as C I O. Or You’re just a user of technology

[00:38:22.71] spk_2:
and you have to say good bye. Thank you very much.

[00:38:24.45] spk_7:
Okay, thank you so much. And I will see what your booth. Because I always loved getting to do an interview with you.

[00:38:29.16] spk_2:
Absolutely. It’s our only time to go face to face. Yes, we’ll see you. I’ll see you in Baltimore.

[00:38:36.00] spk_0:
All right. Thank you for that indulgence. Alex Count. It’s usually

[00:38:38.44] spk_4:
a great conference or close to where I live. Yeah, it is fabulous. Maybe I’ll see you. There is

[00:38:49.80] spk_0:
really a very smart place. Hundreds of brilliance because I wish I could interview more than the 32 or so whatever I’ll get. Um so just remind listeners Alex counts. Ah, consultant, founder of Grameen Foundation. And his book is Changing the World without Losing your mind. Leadership lessons from three decades of social entrepreneurship. We’re just scratching the surface. You know, where we’re We’re focused on the CEO chair relationship today, but obviously the book goes way beyond

[00:39:11.33] spk_3:
that. Uh,

[00:39:24.52] spk_2:
lots of lessons in 30 years. Now it’s Ah, you got a good You got a young face. You got a baby face. Check out, check out his, uh, check out his headshot tony-martignetti dot com’s gonna baby face. Um, So let’s, uh we divert a little bit, but these are all valuable topics.

[00:39:28.92] spk_0:
I mean, this board evaluation process is semi annual thing is really very interesting. I hadn’t heard anything

[00:39:35.22] spk_3:
like that. Um,

[00:39:36.96] spk_2:
let’s talk Thio. Let’s talk to

[00:39:43.47] spk_0:
communications. You like you like frequent regular communications between the CEO and the chair.

[00:40:28.73] spk_4:
Yes. I mean, there’s no. You know, when you when you talk with someone, you come in. Mike, come on with an agenda of what you think is going on the organization, but especially if you’re not rushed on your in person, where that’s possible, you know, you stumble upon in the process of just kind of ruminating on what’s going on the organization, some opportunities and assets and some kind of dangers and risks that you didn’t even go in thinking about because you’re you know, you’re with someone who’s also internalized. The organization is smart, is committed on DSO. I always, you know, I would wouldn’t want to talk with Susan or Bob or Palm or it’s, you know, have have kind of regular calls, you know, maybe two or three a month, but also in with a strict agenda but also sometimes has really unstructured. You know, it’s been a long dinner with them and, ah, a mixture of bonding and just kind of, you know, thinking out loud brainstorming and and just really kind of creative ideas can come up there. And if you’re I did tell a story. One of my board shares went from being semi retired of a very demanding job three years into his role. And while he did stick with it for another two years, which surprised me my ability to spend time with him, quality unstructured on rushed time was compromised. And and that was and I missed that. And our partnership suffered a little bit. As a result, he was still very good and because of his job, had more money to put into the organization. But his ability to kind of have that Maur kind of on structure brainstorming time was severely constrained.

[00:41:16.49] spk_0:
Yeah, Yeah, it was more just a formal time together. Yeah.

[00:41:21.06] spk_2:
And you think about think about friends, you, How much just happens

[00:41:28.85] spk_0:
in free conversation over over a meal in a glass of wine. You

[00:41:47.13] spk_4:
think of some something to do together that just you hadn’t even thought of and just being in their presence. You’re like, Well, why don’t we try that, um and and so that that time together again, so many of these things Fundraising, managing board relationships. They’re very time consuming. But when you do them well and invest the time, it’s just they pay back many, many times, but you need to be able to kind of spend the time on what you know, my wife and I call the important but not urgent on If you invest in that, just magical things can happen.

[00:42:01.10] spk_2:
And then this kind

[00:42:01.89] spk_0:
of thing you have to make time for you aren’t gonna find the time when I when I find the time will, will have an unstructured meeting. But today we’re having an agenda. When I find the time when we find the time to get

[00:42:12.38] spk_2:
time is not gonna tap you on the shoulder and make itself apparent that you have to make the time. There’s never gonna come in timers. I’ve got two free hours today. Let’s have a meeting with meeting with. I’ll have a call with my board chair. It’s not gonna happen. You have to make the time consciously

[00:43:04.04] spk_4:
and you know, and it’s also becomes something, if you know is it can’t became with each my board shares, particularly Bob like Failed and Susan, where I just enjoyed being around them. They had a lot of grace for me when I made mistakes. They kind of puffed up my ego. When I was doing well, we found common interests or developed them on. They never took cheap shots at me, even in private. If they were going to be constructive, they tried the most sensitive way to do it. That didn’t deflate me. And so it just it ends up being. Gosh, I went. When do I get my next time with Susan? Tony Learn Thio kind of, you know, to commiserated, to celebrate. It’s just always like a special thing. And so you know, they make more time for it, and you developing that personal chemistry. Even if you’re very different people like we were, you could develop it, but it it it needs to be a, you know, a high priority

[00:43:19.30] spk_0:
on. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows in the C e o chair relationship. Like any relationship, let me take this last break and we’ll come back to Gilling with tension points.

[00:43:31.35] spk_2:
Turn to communications. Do you find yourself scratching

[00:43:39.57] spk_0:
your head, wondering how some nonprofits always seem to get mentioned in the news? It’s not because they’re big here. We are talking about relationships. It’s because they have relationships with journalists when they don’t want to be quoted, they just have

[00:43:48.44] spk_2:
a relation. They’re not looking for something they have a relationship

[00:43:59.65] spk_0:
of standing relationship with journalists turn to can help you do that. Their former journalists, including from the Chronicle of Philanthropy. So you want to build those relationships in advance. So when the news breaks and you can contribute to it and want to be seen on an issue, you’ve got the standing relationship. Your call, most likely more likely than not, will be taken over not having that standing relationship. They return hyphen to dot CEO.

[00:45:00.25] spk_2:
Let’s do the live listener love and there’s quite a bit of it we are in. Ah, it’s the start. Domestic Woodbridge, New Jersey Tampa, Florida New York New York multiple. Glad to see you. Thank you very much. New York, um, live love to each of those cities as well. A Seattle, Washington in Chicago, Illinois, um, as well as Lincoln’s in North Carolina. Well, cool North Carolina. I’m in Emerald Isle, not today, but, uh, live love. I’ve loved to each of our domestic live listeners. Now let’s go abroad. Seoul, South Korea. Always so loyal. I’m always so grateful. Seoul, South Korea Multiple listeners Annual Hasso comes a ham Nida Woodbridge, New Jersey

[00:45:05.27] spk_0:
No, I’m sorry. That’s not fair. Not that’s That’s, uh that’s not foreign. That’s not very funny.

[00:45:07.74] spk_2:
I’m from New

[00:45:08.17] spk_0:
Jersey. So you know, I’m from I grew up in Rutherford Multiple,

[00:45:44.57] spk_2:
Fukuoka, Fukuoka, Japan. Often we have Japanese listeners. Thank you, Japan. Konnichi wa um Chapultepec de Chapultepec Day. Hinojosa, Mexico When I started this when you start this France Rahm bouquet that was the same city was with us last week as well. Rambo. Yea. And I apologize if I’m not pronouncing it right. But live love Thio out to our for listeners officers in France, um, Oxford in the United Kingdom and also in Korea Sue on Oh, someone else. Besides, uh um besides soul thank you. Live love out to you. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Moscow. We’re, uh not quite Everyone say every hemisphere I mean every continent, but we’re close live love

[00:46:45.55] spk_0:
to each of our live listeners. Thank you so much for being with us and the podcast pleasantries toward over 13,000 listeners. In the podcast Pleasantries to you. I thank you for being with us week after week, whether you binge it all and listen to eight episodes on a weekend or you’re spreading it out. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners. Um, that was our Ah, live. Listen, love in the podcast pleasantries. And now back to, uh, CEO chair relationship, which we’ve got butt loads more time for. Ah, and Alex counts. Okay, Moments of tension. They’re gonna crop up

[00:47:51.47] spk_4:
inevitable in a certain way. Healthy. I remember. And in the article I talked just referenced in passing that, you know, one time I had some tension with Susan Davis and I went to the vice chair kind of probably overreacting to that and wanted to try play Mommy off against Daddy or something, you know. And Yvette Dyer, who is our vice chair at the time, said very profound and basically said, You know, the tension is an inbuilt part of that relationship, even when it’s the healthiest. And as I thought about that more I thought about you know, your non profit executive directors. Sometimes they’re too aggressive, they need to be reined in, and the board feels it. But it’s really the responsibility that share to give that feedback. On the other hand, some this wasn’t so much my fault, but some executive directors and CEOs are too cautious. I need to be pushed to be more aggressive and had Ah, And again that will come, uh, probably is the sense of the board, but often best conveyed by the chair. And initially, that may not be that well received, um, and and may create some tension. But again, there’s in all healthy relationships, especially this one. That’s that’s one of the aspects of it. And once I realized that and you see, I had the benefit when I was working with Susan, that I’d already been the chair of another non profit board. She had previously been the executive director of a nonprofit, so we kind of understood you

[00:48:12.53] spk_0:
had been in each other’s roles. Very important, always

[00:48:15.15] spk_4:
possible. But but but actually quite it valuable it You’ve kind of sat in that person’s, you know, chair and and you can understand a little bit more why they’re doing what they’re doing on DDE. And so that that tension just was, you know, was really part and parcel of a healthy relationship. Is, as I came to see, not didn’t see that you immediately

[00:48:36.62] spk_2:
too timid sometimes CEOs in what respect? Not aggressive. Just

[00:50:05.15] spk_4:
say, you know whether it’s setting their annual goals for, you know, whatever societal positive impact they want. Or some CEOs want a stockpile money rather than spend it on their programs of their team star of the organization. Just because they just they’re always worried about running out of money. So or sometimes it’s about, for example, keeping it a non performing employees on giving them one more chance that could go on for four or five years and on. And, you know, there was one case where I probably stuck with it. A chief operating officer longer than I should and a board chair came in and said, You know, when you’re gonna ease him out. You know, he’s creating a lot of dissension in the organization. Even that was raging, reaching the level of the board. And I needed to be pushed Thio to recognize that this person wasn’t performing and so get my errors would tend to be more about being too aggressive, too much of a risk taker, and I would need to be reined in. But like I had my examples where I was foot dragging and on the board. If the board doesn’t tell you that your your staff probably won’t directly on dhe. You know they’re the ones that to be a kind of observe your performance and push you. And of course, ultimate decision usually remains yours. But if you don’t follow that enough, you’ll find yourself out of a job at some point. And so if there’s a there’s a kind of a creative tension there,

[00:50:06.72] spk_0:
particularly staff won’t tell you if it’s the c 00 that we’re talking about. Yep, that’s the source.

[00:50:13.58] spk_2:
You liketo have staff participate, attend

[00:50:21.06] spk_0:
and participate board inboard means and not just the C suite. Yeah, that’s what

[00:50:21.61] spk_4:
I did something that people who it

[00:50:24.35] spk_2:
kind of

[00:50:51.40] spk_4:
naturally evolved in Grameen Foundation, where from when we had a very small staff initially is you know, I would have some staff that would present to the board. Maybe they weren’t as good at presenting his. I was. Maybe they were better, but but to give them that experience, to demystify what the board is by having them, and the board could see the quality of staff I had, whether it was, hopefully they were impressed. Sometimes they’re, like, you know, realize that you had why I had to step in and do this, but I ultimately not only had the senior staff as we grew, you know, sit around the board table and either present or observed, but I would say any available staff member quite radical. Could you sit in an outer ring and observe? And it just it had this kind of ability to demystify the board where a lot of non profit employees like

[00:51:08.63] spk_2:
What is

[00:52:23.45] spk_4:
the board do and they’re not doing enough. And what’s their role? And why do we have to work so hard to prepare these board meetings and when they can actually sit there and observe the board deliberating and we would we would go one step further, which is where a t end of the board meeting the board would all leave board members except for the chair, and I would facilitate a debrief with all the staff who were present. Summons might be 2025 staff members, and they could all say, I thought the board had a really intelligent conversation about that. I thought that they totally avoided this topic and had a really, you know, bad discussion about it, and we would just we wouldn’t try to argue them. And so it because a lot of people came to work for me, as I learned is that the board was this mysterious thing where the CEO would go off in a room and maybe the CFO would make a 45 minute presentation and then be ushered out of the room. And it just felt like a this kind of secret society that was making decisions about them that they had no visibility into. And I kind of went the other way of just absolute transparency, including sometimes the board. My staff would see the board grilling me, and they would see me sometimes perform well and defend their interests. You know, some board member wants a new program that made no sense, and I would say, No, we’re not gonna do that makes no sense. And sometimes they’d see me stumble. But again, it just made it more of a human, just just just a group of people trying to help us in a different type of role than you have and let them watch you at times and you get to watch them perform and evaluated and and so it just took all that mysteriousness out of it, and I thought was healthy. Now, at times, you know, I did. I have an occasional board member say, Well, what

[00:52:43.95] spk_2:
if we What if

[00:52:47.15] spk_4:
we close down this whole project? You know, maybe that would be a good idea. And then the people running that project sitting in the background Does it cause anxiety that you need to manage? Yes, there were. There were problems with that. But the benefits way far outweigh the costs in my mind.

[00:53:01.32] spk_0:
Okay. Interesting. Yeah, The typical is staff member of presents, and then is, as you said, ushered out. Yeah.

[00:53:12.65] spk_2:
All right. Awesome. Opening our minds. Um, you have some thoughts

[00:53:13.51] spk_0:
about upgrading aboard where we have, like, two minutes or so left or something. So

[00:53:18.60] spk_2:
we got a good

[00:53:19.21] spk_0:
Okay, we have about three minutes left up the timeto upgrade first. What do you mean by upgrading aboard? Well,

[00:54:16.61] spk_4:
I I believe that I’ve studied it. That about 80% of non profit boards in this country or some version of dysfunctional either micromanaging or only 80 or well, you think that low occasionally I say that I ask people who challenge me and more often it’s that they think it It’s more than that. But whatever most up a solid majority and the reason s O I. What I say is, Is that it? You know, if you’re upgrading, I’m saying, if you want to take a dysfunctional board to mediocre or a mediocre board too high performing it could be done. But you need to do a couple things. One. Is there no quick fixes? If anyone tells you they can turn a board materially increase their performance in 90 days, adopting you know, four techniques. It’s not gonna happen if if you want to increase the quality aboard materially, significantly mark your calendar 3 to 5 years in the future. And one of the things I most often hear from executive directors is, Well, I’m gonna wait for my board to start performing, and then I’ll really engage them on and support them. But they need to prove to me, and I said, No, that’s the wrong way. Look at it. You need to start treating them now. Whoever is on that treat them now is if they’re high performing, bored, invest in them that way and then given a couple years of lag time, they’ll emerge to be the board that you deserve. But you need to treat them now like they’re the board that you deserve, even though they’re not yet, um, and so

[00:54:47.20] spk_2:
that may just

[00:54:47.78] spk_4:
spending intensive time, helping to create real wins for them and a great experience of being on the board, which is gonna be different for each board member

[00:54:55.99] spk_0:
and challenging them to spend more time to get more responsibility.

[00:54:59.46] spk_2:
That’s right, but also

[00:55:00.20] spk_4:
making it making it pleasurable and enjoyable for them to do so not because their guilt or manipulation, but just out of a sense of opportunity. So again I go into in the book, I talk about how once that once I kind of got that at the care and feeding of board members. I think most executive directors and CEO spend probably could spend 3 to 4 times Maur of their time and effort in cultivating these board members. And the payback is immeasurable. But it’s it’s not gonna happen 90 days if if you’re if you’re gonna just read an article in the Stanford Social Innovation Review, apply a few techniques and then you know are they performing better in 90 days. It’s just not. That’s not how groups evolve and function. But if you do it over an extended period aboard, and then you just add one good new member a year. Ah, and they raised the level of everyone a little bit, and that’s that’s how this goes. But if you stick with it for a couple of years, it could be miraculous.

[00:55:59.64] spk_0:
We’re gonna leave it there. That’s outstanding. Is Alex counts his book again, changing the world without Losing your mind? Leadership lessons from three decades of social entrepreneurship. You’ll find him at Alex counts dot com and at Alex,

[00:56:14.52] spk_2:
counts. Thanks so much, Thank you Pleasure. Next week, our Innovators,

[00:56:30.41] spk_0:
Siri’s continues with the return of Peter Shankman on neuro Diversity. What that means for you as an employer and for your employees, the those who are New road divergent. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com

[00:56:41.16] spk_2:
by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is

[00:56:59.82] spk_0:
there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative

[00:57:00.60] spk_2:
producer is Claire Meyerhoff.

[00:57:41.08] spk_5:
Sam Liebowitz is the line producer on the board shows. Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York, with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for December 20, 2019: Impeachment, Say What? & #SaveDotOrg

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Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi: Impeachment, Say What?
What’s your nonprofit allowed to say about President Trump’s impeachment and potential removal from office? What about the 2020 election? What’re your employees allowed to say, where and when? Gene Takagi has the answers. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit and Exempt Organizations Law Group.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward: #SaveDotOrg
There’s a possibility that management of the .org domain will be privatized. The #SaveDotOrg movement thinks that’s a bad idea. NTEN is part of the opposition movement and Amy Sample Ward explains why. She’s our technology and social media contributor and CEO of NTEN.

 

 

 

 

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[00:00:12.14] spk_1:
Hello

[00:00:41.93] spk_2:
and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the love, their 95% under aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d turn extra tropic if I saw that you missed today’s show. Impeachment. Say what? What’s your non profit allowed to say about President Trump’s impeachment and potential removal from office? What about the 2020 election? What do your employees allowed to say, where and when? Jean Takagi has the answers.

[00:00:43.68] spk_3:
He’s our legal contributor and principle of neo the non profit and exempt organizations Law Group,

[00:00:51.04] spk_2:
then save dot or GE. There’s a possibility

[00:00:53.45] spk_3:
that management of the dot org’s domain will be privatized. Save dot org’s movement thinks that’s a bad

[00:00:59.84] spk_2:
idea, and 10 is part

[00:01:01.88] spk_3:
of the opposition movement. And Amy Sample Ward explains why she’s our technology and social

[00:01:06.93] spk_2:
media contributor and CEO of 10 on tony Steak, too.

[00:01:14.04] spk_3:
Thank you for 2019 were

[00:01:14.24] spk_2:
sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali

[00:01:54.24] spk_3:
Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and, by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO, and I’m hoping that we’re gonna welcome Jean Takagi back. Do we have him? We’re trying. OK, uh, he’s in. Is he in the conference? Okay, we’re trying to call the conference, so I don’t know. Gene probably cannot hear us. So what we’re gonna be talking about is, um,

[00:02:02.93] spk_2:
some some stuff on, uh, what’s permissible

[00:02:37.85] spk_3:
for 501 See three’s to talk about, um, whether it’s around impeachment or the election election earing things like, Are you allowed to host a candidates forum? Candidates debate. Um, what about promoting issues versus candidates? What do your employees allowed to do? And that’s Ah, that’s what we’ll be covering. We’re gonna

[00:02:38.21] spk_2:
do Jeanne Jeanne! Jeanne! Jeanne! Jeanne! Jeanne de la machine. We got him. Jean Takagi is the managing attorney of Neo,

[00:02:44.28] spk_3:
the non profit and Exempt Organizations Law Group in San Francisco. He edits the wildly popular non profit law block dot com and is the American Bar Association’s 2016 outstanding non

[00:03:02.08] spk_2:
profit lawyer. He’s at G tak. Welcome, Jean Jean. Great. Ah, great to have you. I know you were there, but we were having

[00:03:04.94] spk_3:
trouble getting in. But now we’re now we’re in, You’re in and we’re

[00:03:12.26] spk_2:
in and s so it’s a very communal Wonderful Are you doing out there? Looking forward to holidays? I’m sure

[00:03:15.50] spk_5:
I am. How about you turning

[00:03:17.13] spk_2:
very much? Yeah. I love this

[00:03:18.50] spk_3:
time. Uh, we have a couple of weeks off from the show, and I have nothing scheduled for a couple of weeks. So, uh, it’s

[00:03:25.47] spk_2:
good time, too. I mean, I’ll be working light work light, I guess. And good time.

[00:03:30.99] spk_5:
Same way.

[00:03:31.64] spk_3:
Yes. Excellent. Good for you. And

[00:03:33.71] spk_2:
good time for reflection.

[00:03:38.44] spk_3:
I think on the new year, I like that you have any, uh, any goals for Ah, 20

[00:03:42.73] spk_2:
20 that you want to share or anything exciting coming up in 2020.

[00:03:53.29] spk_5:
Really excited. My partner, Aaron, Brad, Rick and I are going to be teaching a course at Columbia University starting in January, so we’re really looking forward to that in their non profit a management program.

[00:03:59.50] spk_3:
Wonderful is not gonna bring you to New York or you teaching virtually.

[00:04:03.29] spk_5:
We’re teaching online, but we may make out a trip itude in New York

[00:04:07.89] spk_2:
trip or two. But you gotta let me know. Of course.

[00:04:10.12] spk_5:
Absolutely.

[00:04:16.83] spk_3:
I mean, unless you want Oh, yeah. I hope you don’t want to stealth in and stealth out. Not not. Talk to me. I certainly wouldn’t do that if I were visiting San Francisco again.

[00:04:20.94] spk_2:
Um, okay, so let’s start with the most timely.

[00:04:30.74] spk_3:
Um, President Trump was impeached two days ago in the U. S. House of Representatives. Um,

[00:04:31.72] spk_2:
what’s, uh what can we talk about?

[00:04:33.38] spk_3:
If we’re 501 c three around that

[00:04:48.90] spk_5:
Well, it’s a great question and, you know, because they’re different types of 501 see threes and different types of non profit. I should make clear that we’re only talking about public charities here. There’s different rules for different other types of organizations, including private foundations for public charities. There’s quite a lot they can talk about.

[00:04:56.93] spk_2:
OK,

[00:04:57.64] spk_5:
we should also differentiate between impeachment, which has already happened, and the removal from office, which is still going to be a matter of legislative action, specifically a supermajority vote by the Senate whenever they get that before them.

[00:05:11.85] spk_3:
And

[00:05:12.57] spk_5:
I know that’s related issues.

[00:05:16.20] spk_2:
Okay, uh, because there go ahead. Yeah. So Well, why? Why? Why do we

[00:05:21.09] spk_3:
distinguish between those two. This is a big

[00:05:24.51] spk_5:
authority happened,

[00:05:25.38] spk_2:
Yeah,

[00:05:32.43] spk_5:
so because it’s already happened, you know, charity are fairly free to comment on

[00:05:33.34] spk_2:
that action. They’re

[00:06:33.93] spk_5:
also free to comment about how they feel about governmental leaders in doing their jobs. And, you know, it might be really important to do so in the context that it may really impact the charity’s mission. And, you know, for example, I would think that charity to mission is to end hunger, for example, for for American suffering from poverty. They might have a great deal to say about the administration’s rule to end food stands for like about 700,000 people. You know, the 700,000 people are making, on average 2200 and $50 a year. And if you want to comment on that at a charity, that’s okay the same way you can comment on the impeachment whether you think that that was proper or not. But what may not be okay if you’re gonna be talking about the electability of that person for or in any way talking about the upcoming election so you can talk about impeachment in and of itself on dhe. Whether it was, you think it was right or it was improper. But you can’t start to talk about, um, or start to influence the upcoming election. So that’s a little bit of a fine line. Thio. Walk on

[00:06:58.93] spk_3:
okay, and we’ll get to the election and election hearing. What about the coming potential removal from office, The trial in the Senate and, you know, advocating one way or the other for what you think. The Senate, your organization thinks because we’re talking about the organization level, we’ll get. Individual employees will get to that, too. But what your organization thinks about removal from office.

[00:07:14.68] spk_5:
So you know, there’s no absolute guidance from the i. R s on the impeachment of the president. Surprise. But, um, there’s It’s generally thought to be attempting to influence the legislative action inaction by the Senate.

[00:07:26.24] spk_2:
The mall’s

[00:07:51.21] spk_5:
within the tax laws, definition of lobbying and not political campaign intervention. So we know that there’s an absolute bar to, um, you know, endorsing or supporting or opposing candidates for public office. That would be election hearing in that not allowed by any type of 5 23 but public charities are allowed to engage in lobbying so long as it’s considered not substantial, and commenting on a potential legislative action like the removal from office action that will fall before the Senate would be considered lobbying. And to the extent that charity can lobbying and there are some limitations involved, the charity would be free to do so. But again, it has to walk that fine line because we are coming up to an election year on. Dhe has to look like it’s not trying to influence the election itself. So you don’t really want to talk about other candidates for office or on the general overall qualities of Trump as a candidate for another four years. But you want to talk. If you want a charity, you want to talk about the removal from office specifically about what, before the Senate. Why, why would he be removed from from the office? So you’re really took ing taking a look at those two articles of impeachment and commenting on the merits of those articles?

[00:09:02.54] spk_3:
Okay, understand? We need to take our first break when we come back very shortly. We’ll, uh, well, we’ll talk more about lobbying and what’s allowed, not allowed there. And, uh, we’re taking a break for, um, for wegner-C.P.As. Of course, in the new year, might you need a C p. A, whose service is excellent, who provides clear directions and timetables and who’s easy to work

[00:09:10.88] spk_2:
with. That’s not me talking.

[00:09:22.82] spk_3:
That’s from the testimony. Old. That’s not my opinion. That’s, Ah, the opinion of someone who’s worked with not with wegner in the past, a CZ you’ve heard the past few weeks. So if you

[00:09:26.02] spk_2:
do talk

[00:09:39.50] spk_3:
to partner, you eat each tomb. He’s a good guy. No pressure wegner-C.P.As dot com And now let’s go back to Jean Takagi and Impeachment. Say what? Okay, we’re

[00:09:39.89] spk_2:
allowed to do some

[00:09:56.68] spk_3:
lobbying, you said, as long as it’s not substantial. Uh, how do we measure substantiality? Substantial ability. Substantiality substantiality. I think it’s I think that’s what This How do we make whatever helps called Republic

[00:10:33.26] spk_5:
charities there Two ways to measure it? Sort of. The default way is just what the law cost backs and circumstances, and that leaves it up to the Iraq to determine whether you’ve engaged in too much lobbying or not. And if you want to challenge it, ultimately, a court and nobody really wants to go down that route. So, you know, professionals typically uses guidelines. You know, there was this old case that said, you know, 5% of your resource is that should be okay that, you know, anything under 5% should be okay. You want to think about your expenditures, your volunteer time? You know the amount of publication space you’re giving all of those things. If it’s about 5% or less of your resource is you’re probably not too worried about exceeding the lobbying threshold under that backs in circumstances.

[00:10:42.37] spk_3:
Okay, Yeah. 55 percents pretty low.

[00:10:46.35] spk_5:
Yeah, it’s pretty low. Um, but, you know,

[00:10:48.39] spk_3:
for some

[00:11:26.97] spk_5:
organization, that’s all they want to do. But you know, the better choice for the vast majority of charities. And I would say, almost the no brain and choice for charities that are not churches who are ineligible to do this but share other charities that are eligible to make the 5018 lobbying election. I’m. And that that is just a basically 1/2 page born where you put name, address and check a box on it. If you make that election of the charity which could do it any time at all. Um, you get thio, measure your lobbying strictly by your lobbying expenditures, and the limits are just so much more generous.

[00:11:27.98] spk_3:
Okay,

[00:11:28.59] spk_5:
so it’s 20% of your 1st $500,000 of what they call exempt purpose expenditures or mission related expended

[00:11:36.12] spk_3:
choker.

[00:11:36.75] spk_5:
20% of that

[00:11:40.62] spk_3:
100 $100,000 right there and it’s it’s deemed non substantial.

[00:11:46.76] spk_5:
Yeah, yeah, And there’s a separate limit for grassroots lobbying, which is lobbying a different type of lobbying, where you’re not going straight to a legislative body or an employee or member of the legislative body. But you’re going to the public and you’re asking them to contact a member of the legislative body and you have a called action included in that. So if it’s grassroots lobbying, it’s 25% of that total lobbing limit.

[00:12:11.99] spk_3:
But

[00:12:51.64] spk_5:
expenditure limits under Bible one h are much, much more generous than that 5% kind of rule of thumb that we look at the other time again. Um, a big, big tip for any public charity that wants to, um, discuss the removal from from office, um, stay positions on that before it gets to the Senate or wallets in the Senate, the 501 each election could made and be made any time. And it will be effective for the year. And would you make the election? If you decide you don’t want to, you know, continue electing it. Which might be the case for super big charities. Um, where the 5% could actually be, You know, a lot of money you could, you know, revoke your election that anytime after as well by just filing the same form and checking a different box. So a no brainer election for most public charity.

[00:13:00.35] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. So and we’ve talked

[00:13:15.52] spk_3:
about this before. I was probably the April 2016 which was the last election year. Um, you and I talked about advocacy generally, and I think the 501 h came up then. So you’re still a five. A one c three. You’re just making this 501 h election for the year.

[00:13:23.94] spk_5:
Right? So

[00:13:24.75] spk_2:
what do you

[00:13:25.08] spk_5:
make it?

[00:13:25.49] spk_2:
Your sort

[00:13:26.16] spk_5:
of permanently on that until you revoke it. But all it does that 501 age super easy election to make this thing. We don’t want to tell the IRS everything about our lobby. We just want the IRS to measure our lobbying on what was spent. We don’t want to try to estimate volunteer time How much of our office space is dedicated to lobby? We just want to tell them exactly what we spent and recorded on our financial for a lot. So, so much easier to report, so much easier to track. The limits are much easier. And if you violate it, if you go over the lobbying limits without the election, that facts and circumstances test.

[00:14:00.03] spk_3:
Yeah,

[00:14:00.37] spk_5:
you violated in any one year, you can lose your Bible. One secret that

[00:14:04.58] spk_3:
Okay,

[00:14:04.93] spk_5:
But if you make the election, you have to violate it over a four year period, not just one year, but over a four year rolling calendar. And then you have violated by more than 50%.

[00:14:16.61] spk_3:
Wow. Okay, so that

[00:14:18.03] spk_5:
that’s just so much more advantageous.

[00:14:39.09] spk_3:
It is sort of a no brainer. And for those much generous, much more generous limits. Okay, cool. All right. 501 inch. Thank you, G. Um, what about our our individual employees? What are in terms of what resource is they’re using when they speak, when they when they speak publicly? What? What are the rules around employees?

[00:15:56.92] spk_5:
Well, you know, first thing to recognize is is individual tax First Amendment rights, right? So they have the freedom of speech. They have the freedom to say whatever they want. Charities shouldn’t control what you know their employees or their directors or officers are saying in their individual capacity. But they should control what they’re saying as representative speaking on behalf of the charities. So there’s that distinction to make so again don’t control what you know your your employees and your staff members and volunteers are saying about impeachment or removal or any other wegner slate of action or political endorsement. But make sure that they don’t use any charity. Resource is in doing so, and that’s really important. Don’t let them use their work email address. Don’t let them use the work. Tell a boat. Don’t let them perform those activities. If they’re, they’re, you know, working on campaigns in the office and the charity’s office. And if they should put their name on with the name of their employer, which is a charity on like an endorsement list of a political candidate. Make sure that there’s some sort of Astra’s back says that the name of their employer is only listed there for identification purposes and doesn’t represent an endorsement by the charity itself.

[00:16:22.14] spk_3:
Okay, Okay. Um and so what? What employees do on there personal time and their personal Facebook Twitter email all all, uh, really of no concern to the to the charity.

[00:16:28.54] spk_5:
Yeah, but social media is actually a good point about hitting that gray area, tony, because you probably follow your twitter, tony. So you

[00:16:37.06] spk_2:
probably follow you

[00:16:42.79] spk_5:
individuals who are on Twitter who have both their name and their charity affiliation like listed?

[00:16:46.34] spk_2:
Yeah, in

[00:16:55.29] spk_5:
their account, it might be in their Twitter handle, or it might be in their short bio underneath. You know, the Twitter handle. And that’s where it becomes kind of tricky. Who does that Twitter handle belong to? Does it belong to the individual or doesn’t belong to the charity And could the chair to get in trouble if there is a political endorsement or a statement of opposition to a candidate for public office?

[00:17:12.21] spk_2:
Yeah, I always

[00:18:04.09] spk_3:
have presumed. Although I’ve never followed upto see whether my presumption is, uh is accurate that someone who has the charity name in there either in their handle or, as you say in their short Twitter bio, has another account that doesn’t talk about the charity, Asai said. I never have investigated to see whether they do or not. I’m following their charity account. Um, so maybe maybe people don’t. But that would seem like the better the better practice. And especially if, I mean, shouldn’t that be in a, ah charities social media policy that if you’re going to use the charity name, you know, there are prohibitions around what you can do with that and then and we encourage you? Or we insist that you have, ah, private well non A non charity Twitter account for all other all other non work purposes.

[00:18:56.44] spk_5:
Yeah, conservatively. You know, I kind of like that type of policy, tony. But for practical purposes, it’s kind of like our president or or Hillary Clinton when she was running, separating their kind of personal accounts from their work account. Um, there they are co mingled all the time, and not just by charities and their employees, but by four profit in their employees, so disclaimers can work outright prohibitions and requirements that they have a separate, Um, a Twitter account or face social media account may be helpful at times, but often times you know they’re just going to combine the two. So, um, just be careful about that one thing about, you know, sort of the election hearing prohibition that you can’t endorse or oppose the political candidate. One thing did note is that the Republican Party platform and President Trump himself said they really don’t like that Prohibition often referred to as the Johnson

[00:19:14.09] spk_3:
and Johnson

[00:19:14.70] spk_5:
talked about that before.

[00:19:16.87] spk_2:
Well, they

[00:19:17.05] spk_5:
want to get rid of it, although most the vast majority of charities. And I think the mast majority of churches. I don’t want to get rid of it because I could turn all charities into these election vehicles for where donors say, You know, I’m not gonna give you this donation unless he said a message to all of your members and donors of, you know, in support of a political candidate, and that would suddenly be okay.

[00:20:05.12] spk_3:
Yeah, that’s we’ve been talking. We talked about that. Probably when it around the time it first became a proposal, or at least well, I guess it’s been in the platform. The party platform, you’re saying. But there was some There was more talk about it, I don’t know. A year and 1/2 for two years ago, and we, you and I discussed the Johnson Amendment. Um, it hasn’t happened. Maybe because of the nonprofit community opposition. What what’s your scent? You were you were monitoring that very closely. What’s your sense of where it stands?

[00:20:57.67] spk_5:
Yeah, you know, I think the non profit community’s opposition was very, very helpful in that there were there were others who were opposing it. A CZ well, with a matter of policy. And I think as people got more educated about it, it became less and less popular. Um, it was a way for dark money. T sort of enter into the political system where we didn’t really know where the sources were in. People were getting tax deductions on top of it. So it’s something that be really bad. But the reason why I brought it up here is because if an organization wasn’t quite sure, it was speaking out on impeachment or removal from office, and you know we may be crossing that line. Well, conservatively, I would say, Yeah, the closer we are to election time, you’ve got to be careful even within the bounds that I said that it might be a lobbying activity and not, uh uh, banned political campaign activity. But closer do you are to election that could turn into what looks like a political campaign activity. If you’ve never spoken about the impeachment itself, and you just never it looks like your charity was never interested in the issue until just like, you know, a few months before the election with the

[00:21:25.32] spk_2:
happened that

[00:21:48.92] spk_5:
looks like this casted election hearing communication. But overall, I’m not sure that the I. R s and the current executive branch is really that interested in enforcing the political prohibition laws because, you know, doesn’t resonate with what their messaging has been. Maybe a little bit risk. And it would have been for four years ago.

[00:21:49.85] spk_2:
Okay? Yeah. You still

[00:21:56.54] spk_3:
want to err on the side of caution, right? I mean, I, you know, because they there could be some exception to their enforcement activity or priorities or something. So but

[00:22:01.99] spk_2:
you’re you’re the

[00:22:11.33] spk_3:
conservative conservative guy, at least in terms of legal legal advice of the legal advice side. You know, um, least that’s Yeah,

[00:22:13.26] spk_2:
that’s always been your You. You’ve always been cautious

[00:22:15.77] spk_3:
about advice you give. Yeah,

[00:22:41.47] spk_5:
Yeah, I think when we have a lot of smaller to medium sized organizations amongst the client, there’s just less risk capital, you know, private foundation with, you know, $10 billion might have a little bit Arjun for taking a risk and maybe fighting it in court if they felt like the I r s sir. Uh, neutrino general not correct in their interpretation of whether a lot was violated. But for most small and medium sized charities, they can’t afford to have that battle.

[00:22:49.70] spk_2:
We’ve been

[00:23:15.61] spk_3:
talking mostly about candidates. You mentioned a little bit about issues, but let’s make issues issues clearer versus candidates. Are you saying that if you’re non profit now, as an organization has has been following an issue for a long time and not just doesn’t just start commenting, you know, 60 or 90 days before an election, then eyes that part of the facts and circumstances test for people who don’t for organizations that don’t take the 501 h election. Is that Is that one factor?

[00:24:01.94] spk_5:
Well, just commenting on issues themselves, it was If it isn’t stating a position on a piece of legislation, you’re free to do that all you want. So if you’re educating the public about a particular issue, whether it be climate change or, um, you know, immigration, um, you couldn’t talk about broader issues and educate the public. You know, if you’re giving material facts and you’re doing it in a non part of objective and fair manner, that that should be sort of a fundamental thing of what you do if it’s gonna help further your mission. But when you start to comment on a particular piece of law or legislation and say, you know, this is either a good piece of legislation or this is a bad piece of legislation

[00:24:11.27] spk_3:
or this

[00:24:11.70] spk_5:
new legislation that we need now you’re entering into the realm of lobbying and subject to those limits that we just discussed the 501 h limits or the the facts and circumstances with

[00:24:26.22] spk_4:
Okay. Okay. Um,

[00:24:28.72] spk_2:
you still there, June? I am okay. Yeah. You

[00:24:41.39] spk_3:
Ah ah, word or a syllable at a time seems to pop out, and then it got quiet. So I I, uh I got concerned. Okay, You’re still with us. All right. Good. Um, thank you for flushing that out.

[00:24:43.22] spk_2:
What else? What else

[00:24:44.49] spk_3:
do you think listeners need to know?

[00:26:06.27] spk_5:
Well, there are all sorts of other things that public charities do around election time. Um, you know, they can’t endorsers support any candidates for public office, But the concert, we engage in voter registration and get out the boat drives. You see that all over the place, and you’re gonna continue to see it over the next year. So a CZ longer again there, you know, conducted in the neutral, non partisan matter without reference to, you know, any of the specific candidates or political parties, you can host a candidate debate or forum. I think many of you have seen those, uh, you know, hosted by a public charity. And again, the purpose of the, uh, debates reform should be for educating the public. So you have to be very careful about not doing it in a partisan man is not with leading questions or a selective choice of topics that that might influence the public one way or the other. Be careful about your selection of moderators and how you comment on the candidate’s response. Yes, I want to be careful about the time allotted to each candidate. You know, it would be very wrong if you allowed just one candidate. If there is, it just came down to the presidential race, for example, and you let one party’s candidates speak for 90% of the time and the other candidates to be 10% of the time. It will be pretty clear where that charity is leaning.

[00:26:28.95] spk_3:
Okay, So to borrow the old Fox News motto, you need to be fair and balanced, but not fair and balanced like they were where a court ruled that they were de facto, not fair and balanced. Need to be really fair and balance. I think

[00:26:29.39] spk_5:
that’s that’s right,

[00:26:30.53] spk_2:
and and

[00:26:35.50] spk_5:
obviously a charity will have its own mission statement to think about. But they’ve got a sort of put it in their back pocket a little bit when they’re designing those type of debates. Reformed Also, voter guides, Kennedy questionnaires, um, also permissible and even candidate appearances. If you’re providing equal opportunity for all candidates, you see that on television is Wow.

[00:27:05.64] spk_3:
Okay. Okay. Um well, we have just about a minute or so left. Uh, what? Ah, what do you want to leave us with for the for the year on this topic?

[00:27:17.93] spk_5:
Well, I think I’ll just say I think people should be really active in their advocacy. In furtherance of their mission. There are a few resources that are out there. Board sources stand for your mission. Campaign has some excellent resource is on the Alliance for Justice gives you more than mechanics of what I’ve been talking about. What type of advocacy, What type of lobbying, what type of political activities public charities could do on. There’s some nuances to all of this. There’s another layer of election law that may be on top of all of the tax law we’ve been talking about. So those resources are good places to go and go ahead and advocate as much as you can for your mission.

[00:27:58.17] spk_3:
Junior. So modest. Another very good source is non profit law blawg, which is at non profit law blogged dot com. And Jeanne, I wish you lots of

[00:28:01.34] spk_2:
let’s of enjoyment, lots of good time.

[00:28:03.07] spk_4:
Uh, I

[00:28:03.64] spk_3:
hope you enjoy your holidays and the New Year

[00:28:07.14] spk_5:
Happy holidays to you and your family. Tony,

[00:28:28.89] spk_3:
thank you very much, Gene. It’s a pleasure. And thank you so much for what you’ve done for 2019 and what we’re looking forward to. In 2020 he’s Jean Takagi, my pleasure, managing attorney of Neo, the non profit and Exempt Organizations Law group. He edits that non profit log log, and he’s at G Tak. Now it’s time for a

[00:28:33.08] spk_2:
break. Cougar Mountain software designed from the bottom up for nonprofits The same nonprofits we’ve been talking about, the ones, the ones we all know. Non profit radio, for God’s sake. What does that mean For you?

[00:29:00.64] spk_3:
That means fund accounting. No more spreadsheets to manage your restricted grant funds. Also fraud prevention and exceptional customer service. You’ve heard all that in the testimonials. Cougar Mountain has a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now let’s transition,

[00:29:03.15] spk_4:
uh,

[00:29:03.88] spk_2:
subtly, but ah, but smoothly, uh, suddenly and

[00:29:27.75] spk_3:
smoothly to tony stick to and my thanks for you. Our listener. Listeners in 2019 were the number one podcast for nonprofits. Most listened to, uh, most longest running, most consistently produced, most sponsored just generically. Overall, you can say Number one podcast for nonprofits. And

[00:29:35.00] spk_2:
that’s because we have so many listeners. So I am grateful

[00:29:49.24] spk_3:
to you. Thank you for your listening If you have shared the show. I appreciate that as well. Thank you for that. That’s how we grow the audiences by listeners sharing what? What

[00:29:49.94] spk_2:
they believe is good content. So thank you with you. Listen, live or archive.

[00:29:54.54] spk_4:
It

[00:30:13.47] spk_3:
makes no difference. Thank you very much for listening. If you want to see my thank you wishes from the Chesapeake Bay, then you can view the video at my thank you video. Thank you so much. We

[00:30:13.61] spk_2:
have a B sample ward. We do not have

[00:30:55.80] spk_3:
any sample word. She hasn’t called into the conference line yet. Okay, well, uh, when when we do connect with her, um, we will be talking about save dot org’s. The issue is that the dot org’s domain that we all use I don’t use you all use. I actually don’t use I’m dot com for my for my business. Um, but you all use it. You know how important it is. There’s the potential that it will be managed by, ah company ethos, which is the water, you know, you may know ethos water. Um, that’s the company that may gain control of the dot or domain. And Amy and I will talk about how these things are all managed. Um, we

[00:31:03.55] spk_2:
have Amy as Amy called in yet

[00:31:40.84] spk_3:
means not. Okay, So what we’re gonna do is, um Let’s do the live listener. Love will do that. And if you will give me a nen dull Jin ce for a few seconds, I’m gonna get my phone and share with Emily. Amy sample Ward’s contact info so that Emily can text and call Amy. So hang on while I get my phone. Okay? The dreaded dead airtime.

[00:31:43.74] spk_2:
But I told

[00:32:11.54] spk_3:
you was coming. So, uh, you had you had time to prepare, so it should not have been dreadful. Uh, for you, So I’m getting her in my pulling up in my contacts. Okay, Emily, Here you go. There’s the ways to contact Amy. Sample word. Please Do use my phone actually, or whatever you want to use. All right, so we’ll be talking about dot Organ. There’s a movement. Does The hashtag is saved dot or Ge? Well, I’m only works

[00:32:29.19] spk_2:
on that. Let’s do the lifeless in love and it is extensive. My gosh, Um let’s go abroad first. Tokyo, Japan! Oh, konnichi wa Ramat Gone Israel! Welcome, Live! Listen, love to Israel as well as Japan. Gwangju, South Korea. You’ve

[00:32:35.28] spk_3:
been with us before. Gwangju. Thank you so much. Seoul, South Korea as well. Um

[00:32:41.53] spk_2:
Brazil. Mina Mina Gerais meant Minas Gerais. Jakarta, Indonesia,

[00:32:42.64] spk_3:
Capital of Indonesia, of

[00:33:07.84] spk_2:
course. Live! Listen, love Thio. Each of our foreign listeners and they continue coaching men city in Vietnam. And, uh, well, we see Vietnam from time to time. Thank you. Live low about to Vietnam and touch skin sherry in Uzbekistan. Yeah, it was Pakistan. Not too often, but we’ve heard from you before. So very glad. Very glad you’re with us. Who’s Becca? Stan? Vietnam, Indonesia, Brazil, South Korea, Israel, Japan.

[00:33:20.68] spk_3:
Multiple. South Korea, of course. Want credit that live? Listen, love. After each of those, uh, countries and coming abroad, we’ve got, um Brooklyn, New

[00:33:24.94] spk_2:
York, Cheyney State Park, Kansas. That’s interesting. Cheyney State Park. Are you actually in the state park? You can, uh that’s interesting. You listening from the State Park. Wonderful. I’m a very

[00:33:43.26] spk_3:
big advocate of state parks. Public lands. You got it. You gotta have park. That used to be the motto in New York City, but it applies throughout the country. Doesn’t matter. Of course you gotta have park green space. Um,

[00:33:49.29] spk_2:
Ashburn, Virginia. San Francisco, California, Tampa, Florida, Fairfield, Connecticut. Live love everywhere. We’ve got her. Okay, well, on the heels of the live love Let’s see now we got to make her wait,

[00:33:55.85] spk_3:
because there’s no way that I’m doing a lot of love without the podcast pleasantry. So now she’s gonna

[00:33:59.60] spk_2:
have to wait. She called in late. It’s our own fault. Um, the podcast pleasantries are over 13,000 listeners.

[00:34:06.65] spk_3:
You heard me say it on Tony’s Take Two. But

[00:34:09.17] spk_2:
I’m grateful. Thank you so

[00:34:10.49] spk_3:
much for being a part of our listener audience. The podcast listeners. Thank you.

[00:34:23.20] spk_2:
Any sample Ward. She’s our social media and technology contributor and the CEO of N 10. Her most recent co authored book is social change Anytime, everywhere

[00:34:26.74] spk_3:
about online multi channel engagement. She’s

[00:34:32.63] spk_2:
that amy sample ward dot org’s oh dot org’s. This is considered a potential personal personal threat dot ord and she’s at a me RS ward. Any sample ward. Welcome back.

[00:34:53.87] spk_0:
Thank you. I’m not sure what happened. I’ve been trying since, like, 10 20 to get in. And I assume I always assume user error trying to re dial, and it never let me in.

[00:34:57.38] spk_2:
Okay, Well, we had the same trouble

[00:34:58.91] spk_3:
here, actually trying to connect with Jean Takagi. We saw that he was in the conference system, but we couldn’t get in ourselves to connect with him so on. And so it’s probably not user error times, too. There’s something flunky.

[00:35:12.16] spk_2:
And the reason we’re using

[00:35:21.69] spk_3:
this conference system and rather than having you call the studio directly, which we almost always do, is because there’s some problem with the with

[00:35:21.81] spk_2:
the phone line. Four lines? Yeah.

[00:35:23.94] spk_3:
So we’re using the conference line. Of course, we need the phone line to get the company line, But

[00:35:33.87] spk_2:
anyway, well, you’re a technology technologist, our technology contributor. It’s wonderful until it fails. I mean, I’m almost I’m almost sorry for saying this. I do apologizing. That was gratified that you have trouble with technology too.

[00:35:43.21] spk_0:
Oh, don’t worry. People are always so happy when an 10

[00:35:46.72] spk_2:
says that something

[00:35:48.02] spk_0:
that happened because it’s so validating.

[00:35:51.43] spk_2:
You

[00:36:22.00] spk_0:
know, it happens to all of us, because at the end of the day, all these tools, they’re just tools, right? They’re not perfect systems. Humans built all of them and humans that themselves. They’re not perfect. So things are bound to happen. But I think it’s really interesting the way folks respond when something, you know, technological is happening. That is not what they want. You know, the folks who get really frustrated and upset, and it’s like, Well, sure, But you know, how far is that getting

[00:36:23.35] spk_2:
you

[00:36:24.02] spk_0:
or the folks who are like, Oh, I’m gonna you know, like MacGyver my way around, just like you all did. So good. Good for you for having a productive response,

[00:36:34.73] spk_2:
Thank you very much. And for you as well.

[00:36:36.44] spk_3:
You kept trying. And, uh, I could I could imagine that your frustration was growing as 10 30 Pacific time came and went, which is the time I I was expecting your call. I can imagine your heart rate was rising blood pressure as well. But you

[00:36:51.11] spk_2:
mean I mean,

[00:36:51.78] spk_0:
what could you know? I usually like to dial in early and listen.

[00:36:54.52] spk_3:
Yes.

[00:36:55.08] spk_0:
And so I tried. But

[00:36:57.23] spk_2:
you know, to know about it

[00:37:00.06] spk_0:
anyway, here I am.

[00:37:04.26] spk_2:
Indeed, let’s talk about save dot or ge I While we were waiting

[00:37:06.00] spk_3:
for you, I was introducing the topic. I explained the listeners that there’s the potential that the dot org’s domain could be managed by a private company

[00:37:20.46] spk_2:
ethos My saying that right? Or they are ethos right ethos. Okay, which is the water that they’re also there? I think

[00:37:25.44] spk_3:
they’re best known for water. At least that’s the way I know them. Their social.

[00:37:26.07] spk_2:
No, they’re

[00:37:26.36] spk_0:
brand new, so I don’t think they’re best known for anything.

[00:37:29.42] spk_3:
Oh, listen to the oh, we’re

[00:37:37.08] spk_2:
already getting. They’re already getting some attitude about this subject. All right there, Brandon. E. Hear it? I heard the tone. I know you. I heard that tone. All right, so this is not the ethos water company,

[00:37:42.12] spk_0:
brand new

[00:37:42.83] spk_2:
private

[00:37:43.21] spk_0:
equity firm.

[00:37:43.81] spk_2:
Okay. Oh, brand new

[00:37:45.14] spk_3:
private equity firm. Okay. I didn’t know it was brand new. I just kept seeing equity from All right. So

[00:37:49.39] spk_2:
let’s introduce, I think to get our way into this, we need to understand how

[00:37:54.06] spk_3:
this domain the dot org’s domain is managed. I mean, and I know you’ll be right. I know you’ll be judicious about acronyms because you don’t want to end up in jargon jail S o, I

[00:38:05.01] spk_2:
think. But I think it helps to understand how this

[00:38:07.05] spk_3:
thing this dot org’s is managed.

[00:38:13.47] spk_0:
Right. Okay, so I’m going to try and explain in some somewhat basic terms.

[00:38:18.47] spk_2:
Okay, But then

[00:38:22.62] spk_0:
I will rely on you to interject questions or fast forward or pause, you know, as I go.

[00:38:26.84] spk_3:
Okay.

[00:39:42.59] spk_0:
Okay. So the internet, everyone listening has used it. I’s probably using it to listen even And we know that website, You know, we don’t just write non profit radio. We write non profit radio dot whatever, and the part of the website that comes at the dot whatever follows is called a top level domain. So there cannot. We can’t just go make one up. Those top level domains are managed, and there’s only so many of them. And I can they use the acronym I can as their name, which stands for Internet Corporation for assigned names and numbers. There you can kind of think about them is like the body that’s mento. Organize the Internet, So they’re the ones that say OK, you know, we’re allowed to use dot com and dot or GE and dot I owe and dot. Whatever else, they’re kind of the keepers of the order. So they are involved in olive ist as those keepers of the order. Okay, The next group we need to talk about is the Internet society that is a nonprofit organization, and their mission is essentially to promote a globally connected and trustworthy Internet.

[00:39:48.31] spk_3:
Okay, listeners may see the acronym I s O. C, right. Let’s

[00:39:54.36] spk_2:
have the night knock Internet society yet.

[00:40:31.46] spk_0:
So, almost 20 years ago there, when I can waas working to continue their their work and managing those top level domains, uh, they bid tohave the contract for the dot org’s domain. And there was a lot of conversation about the value of a non profit managing the top level domain that’s essentially four non profit right instead of a four profit domain registrar.

[00:40:36.01] spk_2:
So I can I can is itself a non profit. Yes, okay.

[00:42:38.49] spk_0:
And Internet society is non profit, and they they won the dot or contract, and in the process of that, created another non profit called public interest registry PR, which would be the organization that owned the contract and operationally managed it. But P I. R. Was connected to Internet society, so Internet Society was choosing the board for P i. R. And revenue kickbacks went to Internet society, that kind of thing. So there very closely related as organizations. You No one is like the owner of the other. And for the last, like 18 years or so, PR has managed the dot or domain, and their work has included managing that. Making sure that there’s, um, resource is for non profit. They have they have, you know, everything from sponsoring events to funding training programs, Thio investing in research about, you know, the way non prophecies, the Internet. They’ve done lots of things to kind of re invest the money they make into the use of the Internet by non profit, and everyone kind of thought things were fine. Who write things are moving along just fine, and last month’s just over a month ago from today. All of a sudden, there was an announcement from Andrewsullivan, the executive director of the Internet Society, that they we’re going to sell P. I r to a private equity firm and that it was essentially great news because Internet society would get so much money from the sale that they would create an endowment for themselves. That was kind of position is the only the good news about this was because it would just be so much money for them.

[00:42:44.95] spk_2:
Okay, that was that. That was obviously early day.

[00:42:48.45] spk_3:
That was early day, because I in my research, I didn’t find I didn’t even find that anymore. So that that

[00:42:54.27] spk_2:
must have been that their first position. I’ll tell you what. We got to take our

[00:42:56.90] spk_3:
break, Theo. Only one we need to take. And then you and I can continue to invest the show. Okay. Thank you. Um,

[00:43:04.35] spk_2:
have you ever wondered why some nonprofits

[00:43:13.42] spk_3:
are always mentioned in the news? It’s because they work to build relationships with journalists who matter to them. Turn to communications can help you do just that. They are themselves former journalists. They specialize in helping nonprofits build meaningful media relationships that lead to great coverage.

[00:43:29.45] spk_2:
It’s all about the relationships almost in life. What isn’t There are turn hyphen

[00:43:41.49] spk_3:
to dot ceo, all right. And we have but loads more time for Amy Sample Ward and save dot org’s. Okay, So the initial justification for this well, it’s not really much of a initial rationale. It’s not even it didn’t even didn’t even bother with justification. Just initial rationale was this will be good for I sock will make a lot of money by selling P I R.

[00:43:53.80] spk_0:
Yep.

[00:43:54.31] spk_3:
Okay,

[00:43:59.51] spk_0:
which of course, uh, raise a lot of questions.

[00:44:02.12] spk_2:
A lot of black people.

[00:44:32.91] spk_0:
And now the second piece that we need to talk about happened months before this announcement. So back in the early spring, the contract details for the dot or contract were up for renegotiation with I can and a few things happened in that renegotiation that already have the community kind of in critical response. Those things included some changes to what had, for a long time been part of the contract. One of those was taking away the price cats, so prices could be set at whatever was desired.

[00:44:45.21] spk_2:
The price for

[00:44:47.40] spk_3:
a dot org’s domain is very low, right?

[00:44:50.79] spk_0:
It’s about $10

[00:44:52.71] spk_3:
$10 for the year. Okay,

[00:44:54.88] spk_2:
Okay, you’re more acquainted

[00:44:56.72] spk_3:
with this and I am because I don’t use dot org’s I love Dot or GQ. You know, I make my living at dot org’s, but I don’t I don’t use it personally, All right? So, yeah, it’s $10 a year. Okay, so they’re So the initial conversation about a contract renewal was take away those takeaway a price cap,

[00:45:23.25] spk_0:
take away the price cap, and then some other pieces that essentially made folks feel that it could be organizations with these domains. There’s some vulnerabilities around censorship and that kind of thing.

[00:45:30.91] spk_2:
Okay, So a

[00:45:31.79] spk_0:
number of organizations

[00:45:33.22] spk_2:
and

[00:46:04.28] spk_0:
people had responded to those changes back in the summer and spring saying, you know, Hey, wait a second. This is not right. This does not feel right. This is, you know, longstanding components of the contract. Why’re these Chicken Jane? And despite overwhelming over 3000 responses saying don’t do this, I can. And public interest registry went ahead and the contract gotta prove that way.

[00:46:05.26] spk_3:
Ok, wasn’t I? Sock, actually, isn’t I Sock?

[00:46:09.57] spk_0:
I can

[00:46:10.46] spk_2:
I can. Okay, but I stock

[00:46:12.67] spk_3:
owns public interest registry, right?

[00:46:15.88] spk_0:
Sure. But public interest registry is kind of the manager there. The owner of the contract.

[00:46:21.62] spk_3:
Ok, ok, and they’re the ones who managed the managed. OK, all right, So now

[00:46:43.06] spk_0:
and what is kind of an added so we can think about it as there’s all of these changes happening? And then, isn’t it so convenient that now a private equity firm is willing to pay over a $1,000,000,000 for this contract that no longer includes price caps and includes some vulnerabilities around?

[00:46:50.72] spk_2:
Wait. Oh, I hold on. I didn’t see that. The price tag is over a $1,000,000,000.

[00:46:57.22] spk_0:
$1.12 billion.

[00:47:11.85] spk_2:
Wow. Okay, I did not see that. I was I was wondering, but I hope she’s okay. So All right, so the question All right, So let’s let’s fast forward now. You aren’t

[00:47:20.74] spk_0:
even following who don’t. Maybe you don’t even work in a non profit that has a doubt or domain. You can already see from, like a, you know, business magazine perspective. What? What seems questionable about the situation?

[00:47:29.30] spk_2:
How the hell are they? How the hell is going to make all that money back, right? Yes. On the backs of

[00:47:34.24] spk_3:
America’s 1.3 million charities.

[00:47:37.88] spk_0:
Well, and keep in mind, this is for the entire globe. this is non profit over the entire

[00:47:43.35] spk_2:
world way. Talk

[00:47:49.38] spk_0:
about wanting to have a human rights lens on reviewing this transaction. When we talk about vulnerabilities for censorship, we’re thinking about non profit, not necessarily in the U. S. We’re thinking about non profit in parts of the world where they rely on a dot or domain so that people here in the U. S. No. Oh, this must be a new organization doing good work. I’m willing to donate to them. I’m willing to support them. They’re likely doing work in a geographic region where their government is not in support of what they’re doing right. And having vulnerabilities for censorship means their government could just turn their website off. Right?

[00:48:28.27] spk_2:
So,

[00:49:21.43] spk_0:
uh, there’s a lot happening that is sure maybe not happening in this moment, but very, very likely could happen, right, because these changes have happened. So, um, what has also been challenging is that in a few of these public forums and 10 held a community call and invited the folks from Internet society and PR to come. And John Nevins said that he asked for those changes to be added into the contract, which kind of further creates this web of questioning about who knew this was happening. And how long was this plan, right? If those changes to the contract are what made the contract worth apparently over a $1,000,000,000 how did all of this happen?

[00:49:23.63] spk_2:
Did you have someone from ethos on the call?

[00:49:30.23] spk_0:
We did Eric Brooks, That Theo.

[00:49:50.31] spk_3:
Okay. And he has, uh, yes, I wanna be. I wanna be balanced here because he has a block post that from December 16th where he answers some of the answers, all the questions that a Mozilla Block post had had asked

[00:49:57.17] spk_0:
Answer some of those questions and I would say responded to them. Did not answer them,

[00:50:29.66] spk_3:
You would say responded. Okay, okay. So, like, for instance, on the pricing, um, what assurances gonna dot Or community have that ethos and p i r will keep their promises regarding price increases. We’re committed to limit increases for dot, or domain registrations prices to no more than 10% per year on average, based on domain prices today, that would equate to an additional $1 per year. We plan to embed these pricing commitments in our public benefit LLC or other corporate governing documents that that doesn’t care. Is that not satisfactory?

[00:50:43.24] spk_0:
No, I mean on average. So that could say, over the next 20 years, the average has been 10%. We all understand that Average doesn’t mean every year has to be.

[00:51:05.50] spk_3:
Yes. Okay. Okay. Now Eric says that they are Ah, they’re going to create a P I R. Stewardship Council. Right now, The Stewardship Council, um, concept behind our proposal is to put in place a dot org’s community advisory board body. The council will seek input from the daughter of community and convey the needs of the data or community to P i R. Management provide advice to p ay, our leadership on key matters impacting the daughter of community. And the leading voice in recommending new service is capabilities to be offered through the dot org’s platform to serve the mission driven community.

[00:51:29.44] spk_0:
Yeah,

[00:51:31.06] spk_3:
okay. What? You know,

[00:52:33.02] spk_0:
they had a, uh webinar. I guess you’d call it yesterday. So did and spoke at more length. It wasn’t a discussion or, you know, they didn’t take live questions or anything like that. But they spoke at more length about the same topics. And what we can understand about this advisory council is that the P. I. R. Board and the folks already working there working within this deal will choose who the council is. The council has no actual authority. Oh, our mechanisms for accountability. And, you know, it’s like a group that they have chosen that they say is able to give be back. So I don’t see how it addresses any of the kind of concerns that rest of the dot or community has for riel accountability.

[00:52:35.39] spk_3:
Okay, so your concern is that it would just be like an advisory board on sort of perfunctory and not not without really thought without authority. The authority would

[00:52:48.12] spk_2:
still be may not

[00:52:52.65] spk_0:
be folks who would have divers or critical views because their hand selected.

[00:52:57.75] spk_2:
Okay, well, hey, did say

[00:53:09.60] spk_3:
again Eric Brooks in his block post. He said that there would be standards for qualifications for membership on the stewardship Council. So

[00:53:10.65] spk_0:
sure,

[00:53:11.40] spk_2:
they would think

[00:53:12.31] spk_0:
that’s a pretty like white, dominant view of saying I’m gonna choose my friends.

[00:53:31.50] spk_3:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, because, Well, yeah, The question is whether the dot or community would have input into, I guess I guess we’re talking about. Enter the terms of this disagreement between ethos and I saw. Right,

[00:53:32.83] spk_0:
Right. So we’re moving from a world where the dot or contract is managed by a non profit organization who would also managed by a non profit er organization and into a world where the dot or contract is held by a for profit entity owned by a private equity firm.

[00:53:50.69] spk_2:
Do it right. Just the principles

[00:54:02.33] spk_0:
of those organizational set up completely changes the context in which the dot or contract is maintained. Right? We’re going from a non profit entity reinvesting any additional funds back into the sector to two organizations that are really meant to maximize profit. Right?

[00:54:18.87] spk_3:
I understand. I do understand. And this falls into the category of I I’ve noticed this more in the past 10 years or so. We

[00:54:23.50] spk_2:
have to I feel like I have to fight Maur for what I did to keep status quo.

[00:54:28.65] spk_4:
Um

[00:54:29.74] spk_0:
Yep.

[00:54:32.60] spk_3:
So this is something that all

[00:54:32.93] spk_0:
right, let alone progress.

[00:54:37.08] spk_2:
But yeah, I’m just I’m just Internet

[00:54:54.29] spk_0:
society. Didn’t feel that it was sustainable to manage PR PR didn’t feel like it was manageable. Thio sustain the dot or contract there’s a different solution to that than completely, you know, throwing it out.

[00:54:56.36] spk_3:
I understand. All right. I’m

[00:54:57.40] spk_2:
gonna let us go

[00:54:57.93] spk_3:
a little longer. We are. Typically, we would end right about now, but let’s let’s go another few minutes. Not not not 10 minutes. Because listeners are pretty much counting on on our but, you know, really go another 45 minutes.

[00:55:09.79] spk_2:
Do we know how much

[00:55:12.26] spk_3:
revenue P I R earns? I don’t know. Over the

[00:55:16.01] spk_2:
past years, Annual 19 nineties

[00:55:18.24] spk_0:
and that kind of thing.

[00:55:20.44] spk_2:
Okay, what do you know?

[00:55:21.19] spk_0:
It’s like 90 year.

[00:55:24.12] spk_3:
90 year? Okay. And you’re saying that the contract price is 1.1 billion?

[00:55:30.09] spk_0:
Correct.

[00:55:40.30] spk_3:
Okay. It takes a long time at night at the rate of 90 year to earn back 1.1 billion. And then it’s a venture profit. It’s a venture capital firm. Well, Fletcher, profit venture capital firm, which is a which is a profit profit firm,

[00:55:46.59] spk_2:
that it would be a long

[00:55:47.44] spk_0:
time if you had price caps.

[00:56:00.20] spk_3:
Yes, but there may be other methods, you know, we’re not, you know, we’re not venture capitalists, so I guess you know it comes with a healthy dose of suspicion, not just skepticism,

[00:56:02.04] spk_2:
but I mean challenge. There’s

[00:56:04.47] spk_0:
so little information that’s been shared and so

[00:56:06.68] spk_2:
many questions way.

[00:56:29.19] spk_0:
We have asked, you know how in the community Call it and 10 held. We directly asked Capital if they could confirm how long they plan to own the new version of public interest registry, whatever the new or profit is, how long they plan, tone and invest in that company. And they their answer was a really long time in terms of this work. Okay, well, in terms of private equity, I mean, a year could be a long

[00:56:38.39] spk_2:
time, you know,

[00:56:55.20] spk_3:
Right on his block post. Eric Brooks says Ethos has stated on multiple occasions that we are committed to investing. P I R for the long haul. Are investors include families and not profit acquisitions with long term investment horizons. Um, okay, now, but

[00:56:56.08] spk_2:
your concern is that they could resell it and then and then and then we And then it’s then it’s

[00:57:27.76] spk_3:
between 22 Private. Well, even if their public to four profit entities contracting and the outside community has no input into what contracts are between two companies any more than you know any more than we can comment on intends contracts with vendors for NTC, it becomes a matter of private contract in the case of every sale. Okay. All right. What should, uh, what your listeners do. What should we be doing? We gotta we gotta

[00:57:34.50] spk_2:
move on What you’ll do, you really

[00:57:36.45] spk_0:
love? You can

[00:57:37.14] spk_2:
go

[00:58:25.50] spk_0:
to save dot org’s dot org’s s a V e D o t org dot or GE where we have posted the recording of the community call, for example, if you want to be able to hear what the folks from these companies have said, uh, you can see the letter that we’ve sent to them that outlined some of the issues in the contract and what is really important right now. As for organizations to sign on and endorse our request that the sale stop or if you can’t sign on behalf of your organization, sign as a person as an individual. Right now there’s almost 550 organizations who have signed on, and we have almost 19,000 people who signed on those numbers really matter and help demonstrate that this isn’t you know, just in 10 and e f f who have a problem, right? This is a lot of organizations diverse people who understand that this is not in the best interest of a non profit, you know, four good world of the internet.

[00:59:14.24] spk_3:
Okay, Andi, uh, some of the other organizations involved Association of junior leagues. I’m just sampling from from a list of crisis text line do something dot org’s listeners know Aria finger Do something dot or GE ff Electronic Frontier Foundation Girl Scouts of us A Independent Sector Meals on Wheels America, National Council of Nonprofits and 10 Techsoup Volunteer Match Volunteers of America Wicked Media Y M C A of the U. S. A Y W c A U s A. All right, Amy Sample Ward. Thank you very much.

[00:59:22.12] spk_0:
Thank you so much. Tony. I really appreciate you kind of diving into this when I know it can feel a little acronym heavy, but it really will impact every single non profit

[00:59:33.62] spk_3:
Amy Sample word social media and technology contributor and CEO of in 10. You’ll find her at Amy sample ward dot or ge and at a M. E. R. S

[00:59:40.76] spk_2:
board and Aimee. Simple word. Lots of good wishes for your holidays. And for 2020. That’s a good wishes. Radio,

[00:59:47.02] spk_0:
I hope 2020 means we get to see each other in person.

[00:59:51.12] spk_2:
Well, we will it ntc

[00:59:52.47] spk_3:
But we need to go beyond that. Hopefully.

[00:59:54.43] spk_0:
Okay.

[00:59:56.03] spk_3:
Thank you so much, Amy.

[00:59:59.01] spk_2:
Next week and the week after, there are no shows. I hope you enjoy. Enjoy the hell

[01:00:24.21] spk_3:
out of your holidays. Take time for yourself. Disconnect off grid. You know what all that means? I don’t need to flush it out. I hope you do it. I hope you do it for yourself. Friends, Family. Do it. Take the time you need. You need to take time for yourself because you’re in a giving profession. So no show for two weeks. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com

Nonprofit Radio for October 4, 2019: Beyond Local & Online To IRL

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped for the diagnosis of trypanosomiasis if you infected me with the idea that you missed today’s show beyond local We’re talking about scaling your community. You want to go regional, national global, stay online or move to in real life. My guest from 19 and T. C is Emma Tony with social techno, and this is our last of the 30 to 19 ntcdinosaur views and online to i r l Amy Sample Ward continues our convo and focuses on in real life community building. Drawing on intense experience, she has strategies for growth and local empowerment and shares. Resource is she’s our social media and technology contributor and intends CEO Tony’s take two planned giving thievery responsive by witnessed e. P. A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com Bye Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications, PR and content for non-profits your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO and here is beyond local. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. That’s the 19. That’s 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re at the convention center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising Tools for non-profits to help them make an impact. But I’m right now with Emma Tony. She’s a marketing manager at social techno and, uh, welcome, Emma. Thank you. Thank you, Tony. Does it have you? Andi, your topic is creating global communities online and in real life. So we’re talking about scaling groups. So you might have a local group. Might be a tech group. Might be a healthcare group for chess playing or dog walking. I don’t know. You have a community, local community somewhere. And we’re talking about scaling that you might not go global, but maybe you’ll go statewide from town or national to st. You wantto You wanna help us do that? Yeah, s o in Texas. We are actually a global community. So we round in Italy, as social tech knows essential enterprise. The text of global Network program. So actually we are. We have been scaled by a tech soup and precisely in, especially in Italy, we have different kind off communities. We are building up in the third sector. Um, for example, we gather people from different sector. We didn’t the non-profit one that help and we enable collaboration and relationship with between these kind of people. And we help to connect this people with other organizations abroad. So we really believe in the power off connecting people around the world. And we do this via, for example, train activities or out of events we do in Italy as well as in the Europe will get a chance to dive into the details. But you’re doing this both online and in real life. Yeah. Where you based in Italy were busy. Milan, You’re in Milan. I have spent a little time there. I flew in and out of that. Malpensa is the airport. Yeah, but I’ve spent a couple nights in Milan. I know, but I’ve been to really I’ve been totally five times. Uh, from Rome. Naples, way down South Georgia. Toto, which is in Calabria, of course. Vonette Cia, Forenza Bland Palermo. Ging quit arika. Yeah. Come back, durney. I have I will again. But I have been back many times. There are other places to visit to after I think they have to be more egalitarian about my my international travel. You spread it out a bit. Um Okay, So, um, how do we get started? I suppose we let’s ah, let’s say because more likely for our listeners, Aaron Small and midsize non-profits. So it’s more likely that there let’s say their local or they might be statewide and they want to go from they want to go to statewide if their local or national you know, if they’re if they’re statewide, how do we How do we get started? We have this ambition. Now what do we have? How do we channel our ambition? Thio, meet our goal to be statewide national. I would say Let’s start from your mission. If your mission is, um is strong enough and it’s it’s scalable. Let’s say so. If you have a mission that could be actually spread it around the world. So stuff from that and ask yourself what’s the best? The best way to scale this mission around the world. For example, in tech soup, we do have the mission off building a bridge between no profits and the technology and to empower non-profits in the use of technology with air. Well, they’re on a mission. So beginning from these, the statement we were like, What’s the best play to the best way to, you know, to do these two actual to deliver these mission around the world is to be partner off local s social enterprises around the word. So actually, the Texas back-up program is round by social enterprises. Locally, look for look for local partners. Exactly. Get started. Exactly. So our claim is they need these global and so we are. So they need is the need for technology and the use off a technology from the non-profit secretaries is something that it’s global, but only the local enterprises, Maybe they do have that knowledge about the non-profit locally, that is, that enables the tax up to, uh to run their their mission locally. Okay, so they have the knowledge off the territory, the knowledge off the third sector in the nation. So this is the model that we use. So think about the mission and the better as well. The business model that can fit. Because, of course, there’s gonna be local expertise. Yeah, you know your scale. It’s it’s expertise in a in a nation, my example. It’s local. It’s expertise a little broader in your state or in other states, um helps to have that buy-in and on dat knowledge of culture then and also because you’re your topic and we’re talking about in real life. So ultimately, we want to get not just from online communities. We want we want to be meeting face to face. And if you have local partners, you’ll have maybe some brick and mortar. Or at least you know where you can gather. You know you’ll have those local contacts. Yeah, for example, we do have a known online platform that we share with the older partners off tax, which are more than 70 in 230 plus countries in the world. So we have this platform in common, but actually, when it comes to real life, we really rely on the initiative of the single partner in the nation. So, for example, in Italy, we do a lot off local events around around Italy to help non-profits to get access to the technology as well as food and wine events. Absolutely absolutely Happy hour thing. Part off the key important meeting in the morning after hours. Exactly Good. Yeah, it’s a good way to networking actions, so you need in person over food and drink. It’s time for a break. Witness C P. A’s They had a wagon are on September 25th. It was exempt or nonexempt. Forget it. You missed it. But you do know that you still need to classify your employees correctly. So don’t worry. You got nothing to worry about because you watch the archive. You goto Wagner cps dot com Click Resource is and recorded events that simple. Now let’s go back to beyond Local Let’s see what else we talked about flexible of programs, programs that adjust to the local culture. How do you, um, how do you think about that? And you met you make those adjustments and have that kind of flexibility. When you’re you’re a global organization, you’re there. So there is an umbrella organization. There’s gotta be some structure, but you want to be flexible enough to accommodate other other cultures to how do you balance those? Yeah, for example, tech soup. Global rounds tax, of course, is mainly online. So and we decided to go for these models. So we do provide courses online, but as well as in person. So because in Italy will are a small country, right. So we have the possibility off also for the location where we are small, small, but beautiful. Exactly. So we are the capability to reach out to people, to gather people in a room and to deliver workshops and also in tailor made courses and train activities in house like we go to the non-profit and we hold workshops on their premises. So, you know, disease are kind off. Um, this is the way we scaled program, which is international, about the courses. And we adjusted to the specific reality off the Italian lorts sector. Now, tech soup also needs to manage language language barriers. Now, in my example, we’re not gonna have language barriers, Although somebody from the north might not understand someone from the South. But that’s more mindset, I think, than language and language. But in your case, how do you overcome barriers of language for an international organization? So we partners off tax super. We have the zoning platform where we all work together in on. Actually, the off course. English is key to collaborate, but also all the materials, the tool kids, the marketing materials as well that we share our translator localized by the single partner. Also because, um, it’s not not not only a matter off translating the words, it’s some better off finding the right communication words for your audience. Because if you talk about, for example, digital transformation, you have to, ah, took with the words off your audience. So it’s not only a matter off translating from English, it’s a matter off getting the same wavelength off your audience. So it’s on this kind of work. Okay, okay. So well, there again, you have your local partners think valuable for that. Um, so tech soup has, uh, they have their social events as well? A CZ. You want to keep it social too? I mean, aside from the learning the learning environments, do you have just purely social events as well? Is that valuable? Yeah. In Italy, we do a lot off local events with our donor partners, For example, you know, Google Airbnb. Microsoft s so big brands, Um, and the in-kind off events locally that we we host our training activities mainly. So we have we Our mission is to build capacity and digital competences your sector. So we do. Do you have some social events also that are not training oriented? Just pure social? Um, yeah. Networking events with some began NGOs are ampules in the in Italy yet, you know, to spread the voice about tax soup to build strategic partnership and relationships with some non-profit organizations in the territory s Oh, yeah. We do have also live events on Facebook as well, because it’s a It’s a community, which, where, um, that it’s built on online and offline. Is there also? Ah, you know, people Facebook. Facebook is annoying. A lot of people I see, I actually see. I see a lot of people moving to zoom video over Facebook live. I’ve done that myself. But I’m not just using myself as an example. You got the idea from a lot of other people. Okay, Who? I’ve, um I just I just see getting away from Facebook live. I’m invited to fewer Facebook live events, and I’ve been invited to more zoom events in the in the past year than had been in previous years. Yeah, this is a good example off and not a scalable tool. Because if I if I you would do ah Azuma event in Italy, they wouldn’t understand even what zoom is maybe no. So they must use use the tool for prom M peels in Italy are eyes facebook. So you need to ask yourself, Where is my audience? You’re internationally. Zoom is not exactly so. You need to ask yourself Where is these? May be a great idea. Maybe we do use, for example, tools that are not used by at the other impurities in Italy. But not because we are enthusiastic about the tool is that means that it’s used from from Iran. So I really have to be humbled to ask yourself, Where is my union’s? Am I willing to reach out to them where they are, where they’re very good point? Yeah, you’re right. Zoom is not international. And Facebook. Facebook is a big advocate of zoom. Yeah, but absolutely right. Good point. Thank you. Um, you also made another point about corporate sponsorships. If you’re going abroad or you’re just going beyond your own communities. I’ve been saying, um there may be a sponsorship opportunities for for your events in the places where you’re expanding too. Yeah. Could you mentioned Airbnb and, uh, Microsoft? Yeah. Or, for example, with Amazon web services. We did our road show, which is actually international. So we started over in in Italy. It’s basically our train activity about all the services off Amazon for the non-profits. Um, so we started in Italy, and they got enthusiast about this this kind of event. So they scaled in the UK and in Australia working alongside with the local Texas partners. So this is on. This is a good chance to get funding for, for an event, get the non-profit trained about that digital tools and make everyone happy. Another possibility. Overlap between doing international work and maybe and going national is time zones. How do you How do you overcome internationally? You can have 12 hours difference, but nationally, you know, if you just if you’re going from your state to the country just three hours difference, but that can That can make a difference. How do you What’s your advice for overcoming time zone differences, We plan ahead. So if we have to work with the U. S colleagues, for example, we plan Thio, you know, to make the actions Radi before you know the time zones. Um so actually, we we use a lot off tools for project management. A share with the colleagues. Ah, lot off. You know, also teamwork, um, tools that help us to keep up to date with the medical leagues. So, yeah, we really rely on these kind of tools, like slack or yeah, So we leave that. Okay? Yeah. I live on a little more about having things ready in advance. What do you mean, there? Eso? Because we have a lot off that lines, for example, for launching a new product for launching a new program which is international. So we are alerted by the US colleagues, and then we plan ahead or our actions so that when they when they say we go live on this day, we are already we are ready to be to be live. Um, you talk some about threats of closing civic spaces. I don’t know if that could happen in the U. S. It seems like anything could happen these days, so I’m not gonna discount that possibility. What? What? One of the problems there first. Before you get to what? What you do too, to try to help prevent that. But what problems do you have about closing of civic spaces? Um, we don’t have these big issue in Italy, to be honest, but we are experiencing Ah, great reform off the off the third sector, which is like shrinking the power off non-profit toe, make a greater social impact in terms off hyre toe toe, make the, for example, some restrictions, some fines as well a taxation. They are getting higher and higher. So you know these These are little adjustments to the low that actually prevent ah, no profits to have the freedom to act finds for what? For purposes finds for what reason? Because And the main finishes suppression. What’s the What’s the reason? Yeah, The main issue is they want to get rid off the little organization that the head doesn’t have, ah, social impact. So the little months made up off 1 to 2 people, they want to structure them as an enterprise or as our structure impute so they don’t want to have a long tail off the sort of sector, saying that there are billions off non-profits that they have just the label. But they don’t do actually something impactful. Back-up uh, what’s telling What’s the reaction among the third sector in Italy? Thio. Making operations more efficient? What’s the reaction? There is a lot of buzz. Ah, and also they are forced to publish, like a balance sheet off their activities and our social impact kind of assessment. So we expect super. We’re trying to help them to a bill this kindof assessment off their activities to be published online. There is a really a blurriness around this topic in Italy now because the reform is not published like formally now. So we’re still waiting for, you know, news and updates from the government. So this is a government agency that would yeah, coordinating all this data elearning on deciding which organizations can continue non-profits and which have to be enterprises incorporated as enterprising. And it’s becoming also like a requirement to be, um, at a certain point, digital s o. They are calling the third sector to be digital transformed, you know, So because this is our kind off our requirements from the low so way are trying to, you know, work with work week with the no profits toe. Get them trained. Is that Is that a change that could be legislated? Cannot be Yes. We all should be using technology smartly. It makes us more productive. But is that is that a change that could be give you created by government? Fiat Yeah. Okay, I get to I give you Ah little example. For example, now in Italy, it’s ah, it’s a low to make the voicing Onley digitally and Elektronik Lee so can’t have paper invoice anymore. No, no, no, no. For commercial. This is for companies also not just for the company itself, for from the small medium and large enterprises. So if your name Asmal our medium impose, you have to be ready for the electronic invoicing. So this is a trick, right? So you if you don’t have some digital skills or technology competences, you’re not ready to deliver the service. So this is an example Floor Yeah, s So what is the little what? What is the little, uh, a little past each area? How did they How did they take of the fruit flavored order on the corner. How did they How did they comply with this? I’m not sure they are involved in this kind of legislation, but for sure, the medium big M peels and enterprises are, for example, we as a social enterprise. We do deliver Elektronik invoicing now. Well, yeah, next to tech soup can I’m worried about All right, So you’re not so smart s o. So maybe it’s not the smallest businesses, or they are like, I suppose you just have three or four people. Family, family? Uh, yeah, family business on the corner. Uh, they are they covered by this way are 10 to 15 people in Texas, Italy. But we are, um, coping with, ah, lot off appeals. And we have the, you know, the donation program and the all the services. So we are absolutely involved in this in-kind off legislation because smaller non-profits are encompassed by that. Okay. Uh, no, you’re very interesting. He’s from the word. Pardon me news from from either in the world. Do we still have another five minutes or so together? What? What else? What else would you like to share on this topic? that we haven’t talked about yet. Um, for example, I’d like to share the fact that I would like to scale this kind of vivendi and 10 in Italy. Son was wondering if it’s feasible, actually, because it would be really interesting for the third sector in Italy to have this kind off initiative. And so, yeah, you doctor and 10 about that. Not yet. I knew some some off the text Super advisory board. The stuff easy involved in the intent is helping. Intend to plan this out? S Oh, yeah. Let’s see. Let’s see. I went to a I went to a fund-raising conference in Italy. I spoke at a fund-raising conference. Um, it was, uh, first of all, it was festival del fund-raising. Wow. Do you know it is their most probably five years ago or so? What’s the name of the man who runs the radio? Dellaccio Melinda. Melinda. You know Valerio durney? Well, he was teaching a columbia for a couple of years. Is he’s busy back home in Italy now, or Yeah, New York. No, no, no. He’s anything. You know, I met him when he was teaching at Columbia. Yeah. Valerio invited me Valerio. Melinda? Yeah, like this. We have friends. So he he holds a really interesting event about fund-raising. So we have the first of all. Yeah. Yeah. Still seal were sponsor off the this kind of event of sex of Italy. And also, we were trying to do the same four months off land about but about technology, so it would be really interesting. Okay, so there will be a intend Italy. So you know that I would come, I would come and I could talk about podcasting. Yeah, I heard there was a very popular podcasting workshop here. I could do a podcast in workshop there. Have how to start a podcast. I could actually. Oh, yeah. At the festival del fund-raising. I was talking about my other work, which is planned. E-giving. It’s a It’s a form plane. Giving fund-raising would Wouldn’t Wouldn’t be good for a tech soup. Confident I could totally do my other. My other friend in Italy is, uh, where this goes way back. My first trip in Italy. His name was Mario Bootsy. He’s not You don’t know Mario, but he’s from Milano, actually is from Wow. But But this was my first trip to Italy was in 1990. Notes. I graduated from law school. Was that 19 2098? No. When did I graduate from law school? In 1989 to 92? I graduate in 1992 So let’s go back to 1992. You were very young. Then Mario, Bootsy and I met. We were sitting next to each other at the We were there to see Aida at the Baths of Caracalla in Roma. So he’s a He was a bartender. He was a bartender in Milano, but he was on. It was August. He was a foregone stow the August vacation time. I’m not saying that for you listeners, you don’t know if argast Oh, is. It was for a ghost. Oh, so he was on vacation in in Roma. Um, I bought a ticket there, Aida at the Baths of Caracalla, which, of course, operated live operating room. It was a four or five hour production. There were live animal, there were camels and tigers and well, it’s the desert. Maybe the Warren Tigers. But whatever, there were camels. There were camels on the stage and Mario boats and and there were two intermissions because it’s so long. Mario Boats and I I spoke just a little bit of Italian poker, and he spoke even less English. But he and I carried on so well during the intermission, we had drinks together and then we walked back. He we left and we walked back. I walked back to my stay Attila pin pin Cioni on, uh, he was going back to wherever he was staying in Rome for his vacation time, but we got along famously for well, like a five hour production in another hour and 1/2. Walker’s because a long walk And I thought, You know, if the two of us Me and Mario Booty the new law student, the new law grad from I’ve been to law school through law grad from the U. S. And the bartender from Milano and we could get together this way and neither one of us has treyz translators. I thought, you know what a way to bridge differences over over Aida Karnak Ala was created because of me. Then community and I, we were in touch for a while, and then we’ve fallen out of touch instead. But But I still number his name? Mario. Bootsy. You have to come back. Oh, I’ve been okay. All right. I guess usually I let my guests wrap up, but I just Did you take the last few minutes encourage boards of encouragement? Um, stimulation, You know, what would you like to close with? Um, I would like to to tell to older non-profit sector around the world to be courage enough to take all the, um, their mission and their competences within the organization to strive to do the best to make our social impact, which is, ah, related to their territory specifically. And don’t forget to death globally and go global. All right. She is Emma Tony, marketing manager at Social Techno. And you are with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 2019 ntcdinosaur profit Technology Conference. Emma, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, darling. Thank you, listeners. Very, very gracious. And all our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software designed from the bottom up for non-profits. Simple to use phenomenal support. Can you say that about your accounting software? Have you got accounting software? You’re not still using Excel spreadsheets? I hope not. Please don’t tell me that. Cougar Mountain. If you’re in any of those situations where you can’t say yes to all those things or you’re still using spreadsheets, check out Cougar Mountain. They have a free 60 day trial. You’ll find that you know where on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now, Time for Tony. Take two. I was accused of being a thief. Um, this was by a niece years ago who did not trust me with her aunts Jewelry. This is back when I was a nem ploy e a director of planned e-giving. What she said to me was just incredible. Um, she was, uh, she was trying to ask. She’s actually trying to curry favor with me because she wanted me to reduce the university’s interest. I was working at the University of the time, interest in an estate, and she was a beneficiary of the state. So if if I was willing to accept less for the university, she would have got more um it doesn’t work that way, but she didn’t understand that on dumb. Amazing. So she went so far as to accuse me of being a thief. And you just have to check out the video. Thio, Hear the full story? That’s with Peter Heller. He hosted me on Heller Consulting Group Video. Siri’s. You’ll find the video, though, on my site at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony. Take two. Let’s do the live love. It’s gotta go out If you’re listening live The love goes out to you wherever you are If you’re in New York, New York if you’re in Beijing Uh, who else checks infrequently? Oh, of course. Bangalore, India. We’ve heard from recently, uh, California. Often checking in, um, New Jersey, Yes, North Carolina. Wherever you are listening live The love goes out to you. So glad you’re with us. And the podcast Pleasantries. You gotta have it. Can’t If you’re gonna live us in love, You got a podcast. Pleasantries. You can’t have one without the other. So the pleasantries go out too. That’s where the vast majority of our audience those over 13,000 people listening each and every week. Amazing it really is amazing. I don’t know. Sometimes I wonder why Why you stick with this? But I know you’re not leaving because it’s good value. That’s why. So the podcast Pleasantries going out. Thank you for being with us at whatever time you listen. However, we fit into your weekly or monthly podcast scheduling pleasantries to you. It’s my pleasure to welcome back Amy Sample Ward. You know Amy Sample word. She’s our social media and technology contributor and CEO of inten. Her most recent co authored book is Social Change Anytime, Everywhere about online multi-channel engagement. She’s that Amy Sample War Dot or GE And at Amy R. S. Ward. They are, of course, for Renee. How are you? Any simple word? I’m good. I’m good. How are you? I’m doing very well, Thank you. Glad you’re with us. Back. Back with us. Yes, I It is always fun. OK, good, very state that very clearly so very clearly and emphatically. So it must be unless there’s somebody twisting your arm to say, Say, fun, tell him it’s fun, but it’s not because you’re in. You’re in Oregon and I’m in New York, so it’s not me doing that it must be someone else. Um, well, no. I do wish that we could coordinate for on in person, not at the NTC. Like back in New York in the studio recording for one of these? Yeah, You missed getting to go because it feels so much more official than just talking to you on the phone right now. You know, they’re with headphones on and a big microphone. That’s like, the proper way to do it. Yes, you do. Yeah. Andi, we’re in a new studio where two studios from the last duty or you were in with me. We’re not now. Yeah, we’re in a new studio. Just Ah, just a couple weeks. But this is my first recording in the new studio and tomorrow’s show we’re recording on Thursday. Of course, tomorrow’s show will be the very first, very first full show in the studio, so Yeah, well, when you’re in New York, you let me know and we’ll we’ll do our best to work it out. Okay, I will. Okay. In the meantime, let’s talk, uh, trans nationally, Um, and, uh, Emma. Emma, Tony was just talking about my burning my burning question. From what she said, Is there gonna be on ntcdinosaur Lee because she wants one? Well, I appreciate that He does. And I appreciate this is so important to you that you consider it a burning question myself. Course. Didn’t you clearly want to go back to Italy? I would look exactly, exactly right. Fund-raising present involved. L fund-raising was wonderful. Is there gonna be in it will be an NTC, which she called in 10. But we know everybody does that, but she means ntcdinosaur Is it gonna be one in Italy? 2020 2021. Uh, well, we have plenty of NTC contracts for 2021 22 contracting 23 right now and 24 later this year. All of those locations are in the continental U. S. And 10 you know, has a office in Portland. So we as staff, are always trying to petition Andrea unconference director to let us go to Hawaii for NBC. We haven’t done that quite yet. We haven’t. We haven’t won her over. You know, we do get a number of folks request stains, even if it isn’t the NTC as the NTC. But at least requesting that N 10 convene events in other parts of the world and that the US is super awesome. It’s great that people really trust and enjoy the events that we put on at this point. You know, we have kind of a two sided coin to this for the NTC. It just has not made sense for our mission and our Gail and how many staff we have to try and go outside the U. S. For our other programs where they’re delivered online. And that is definitely something that folks do actively participate in from all over the world. We have folks who gotten their professional certificates from us, for example from, um, Switzerland and Canada and the all over. So we know that those programs are easier for us to scale in that way. But the NTC hasn’t yet. However, I and other staff often support convenience elsewhere. Whether we’re on, you know, planning teams are we helped recruit speakers or we ourselves travel there to speak. So the end 10 the in tennis that we can contain as individuals gets to go to other places. But so far on the docket, there is not an empty seat. Aly and very sorry. Okay, I understand. This is this is why you’re a CEO. So so diplomatic and eloquent. If somebody asked me that question and I was in your job well, first of all, I would never get hired. I could never be a jump. But assuming I was in some hypothetical world, my answer would be No, no, no, no. Plan to go to Italy. We’re not. You know, it’s We normally have around 20 countries outside the U. S. Represented at the MTC, and we often prioritized some portion of our scholarships for international participants because we know that the cost burden for them to come from very far away is so much higher than folks within the continental U. S. So we we recognize and really appreciate that there is a really international community for intent. It isn’t just us spoke, of course. Um, yeah. Okay. So, so diplomatic. So you know that I’ve ever been called, Have Now you have now. Yeah, I I’m gonna yet save this recording, and I think I’m beautified. I know you pretty well. You know what? We’ll talk every week, but I think I know you fairly well. I think your diplomatic. Yeah, I’m Bonified. My opinion destroyed already. Um, so related to the end. 10 work, of course, is Ah, a big part of the intern. Work is local real time events that you have scaled throughout the country, and I think even aren’t you Also is there Aren’t there in 10 events in in London, too? Yeah, they’re in 10 events. In-kind the U S or international. Exactly. So, yeah, that’s our That’s our topic. Um, what do we, uh, What’s what’s your What are your thoughts on what you heard? And yeah, I mean things that I was talking about that Not that I don’t think she doesn’t agree. Just that you two didn’t get into details. And now I get the benefit of going of going. Second is the idea about localizing that content, you know, making it you’re talking about, like not just translating from English to another language, but really making sure it’s relevant to folks in that area and something that we’ve found a lot is you can’t You can’t say toe a whole network of local groups, right? Like tomorrow we’re talking about this topic because even the topic isn’t gonna be relevant in every single space. Right? Or the way folks talk about that topic may be very different. And I’m sure you experienced this in fundrasing work to write, like, some people are going to call a certain thing by a different term. And if you tell everybody this is the term we’re using, there’s going to be certain pockets of the community that just don’t even care because they don’t realize you’re talking about the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, terms, um, and just sensibilities. You know how you would go about fund-raising in one part of the country is very different than how you might do it in the Northeast, where people are often considered brash and too forward has to be more genteel in other parts of the country, like Midwest. I’m thinking probably south to I haven’t worked there, but yeah, absolutely. So, um yeah, that Andi, you’re right. We do. We sort of just touched on that, But the local sensibilities and that’s the advantage of local partnerships. I mean, you need to you need to rely on them as much as they’re relying on you for some support, right? And I think that kind of relationship and roll piece is what makes her brakes programs like this right. Organizations see themselves as having the role of making decisions, letting all of those folks on the ground know what the decision is and they’re there to implement it. That’s not motivating for them, but also it’s not going to be reflective of those local communities, right. So organizations already doing this type of work or trying to move towards this type of work really need to recognize that their role is meant to be the aggregator of what’s happening those groups and not the decider of what happened in those groups. Of course, that’s not to say, like all of your community groups can just run amok and do whatever they want Theirs, of course guidelines and hopefully lots of shared values and principles and purpose to why these groups are meeting and really focusing on that shared purpose will make sure the topics they bring up for what they want to d’oh with their group kind of stays in the right realm. But it then gets to be in their control and as the organization you’re there to aggregate it lifted back-up make sure it’s profiled, and that even goes, as far as you know, talking about tools. And I would love to hear your take. I know you were talking a little bit with them about Facebook live. I also have seen far fewer Facebook live. Um, invite your organizations using that, Um, so we can talk about that in a second, but just along the same lines as an organization, it’s not gonna work. If you tell everything, will group. You have to use the book live for your event because there’s gonna be groups that maybe are really small and only have a few people, and none of them know how to do that. And it’s better that that group is meeting than that group is trying to spend their time figuring out how to broadcast their meetings. Right? So not saying every single person, regardless of your location and contacts and topic, needs to use Facebook lives. But, hey, if you want to and you are able to stream, here are a few different tools. You know, you mentioned Zoom, for example, something that we do it intended. We say you get to use and 10 zoom account right like you don’t even need to try and pay for it or figure it out. We will just let you log in and host your event, right? So making it accessible and then folks can choose Oh, for us. Like we do know how to use Zoom. We know how this works. We’re going to do it. And another group could use Facebook live. Another group doesn’t have to use anything, you know, And recognizing that that means as the organization, you’re not going to get to see the event on dhe. They not every single group on your Web site is gonna have a little video link, and that has to be okay, right? There has to be, um, expectation that not every single group is gonna look exactly the same. It’s gonna have all the same content gonna have all of the same outlets and that that doesn’t mean the program isn’t successful, right? No, it’s not very hard because we’re used to having, like, a very perfect spreadsheet that says, like, Yes, yes, yes. All these groups did this, right? So having all the groups have different way they operate, makes it harder to evaluate. And that’s our problem is the organization. It’s not the program’s problem. Yeah, Yeah. Excellent. Okay. You raised a couple things. Uh, we’re gonna that we’re about to take a break. But I see an analogy with this in years ago when we used to talk about should should the community allow public Facebook comments, you know, are in any of the public networks I see in an analog to that. And then also, I want to talk some more about what kind of support a lot of the larger organization can offer. Thio local whatever they’re called. Chapters, affiliates groups, however, but we got to take this. Take this break, all right? It’s our last break. Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories and build support for your work. You can count on them. This is what they do. Media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them a turn hyphen to dot ceo. I’ve got butt loads more time with Amy Sample Ward. So yes. So I see. I see this analogy to I guess it was eight years ago or something? Whatever. Seven years ago, we’re talking about public comments. What if people say things that we don’t like? Um, you know, I’ve seen analogy out. There will be things we don’t like all day long, but the fear that you know, the fear going into this that it would be it would be anarchy. And, well, you know, uh, we won’t be ableto moderator. Should we Should we delete, you know, et cetera. So I sort of seeing an analogy to that. Those conversations we used to have back and I guess the dark days of social, the social networks. Well, you know, this might TF some of the conversation you want to have about resource ing, but I think the the biggest investment that organizations need to make in a program like this, where you’re gonna have distributed community groups of some sort, running some type of programming that you’re not present for is to invest in whoever those organizers are gonna be. The more they feel like an extension of the organization and actual leaders of this program, the more they’re going to feel comfortable and confident managing those types of reputational risk in person. on your behalf, right? If they feel like they’re just here to implement something and you know the organization sent them this saying that says Okay, go to here. Here’s the contact at the venue. We’ve already picked the venue. You didn’t even get to pick that, you know, And they’re showing up. Well, they’re not really filled with a bunch of responsibilities, right? So they’re not going to take it upon themselves to say, Hey like that we’re not having that conversation here. Or that’s not feedback that we’re having in this room, you know, whatever. But if you are really invested in them and building them up as the ambassadors and leaders of this program, they will be able to kind of carry that forward for you in person. And that’s the best safeguard you could build empowerment, empowerment you want. You want to empower your local leaders like and, as I was saying earlier, relying on them to but empowering them what, what some other kind of support. I mean, you mentioned a platform support. That’s that’s valuable, although, like you said, some groups might just want to meet. Maybe they only want to meet in real life. Maybe they’re tired of whatever they do or, you know, I mean, I think it’s also a good recognition that not all events format are great for streaming my right. Ah, an event that, you know, maybe in the summer, instead of having a speaker of the event. It’s a networking social. Nobody wants to be on video, just watching a bunch of people who were having to write. Recognizing that one piece of support we often find ourselves providing to Organizer’s is help this kind of mixing things up and having different formats and actually knowing, Ah, great deal about how you just put on events, right? So that we are a resource for them. Any time where they say, Okay, we don’t have a speaker lined up. Should we just cancel anything you don’t have to cancel? There’s lots of different event for months, but don’t have a featured speaker here, Like, you know, let’s open the kind of metaphorical binder and go through it together, right? So, being experts internally again, not so that you are prescribing, requiring the way that organizers do there that you are then, like the Event Planner Dictionary. For them, it’s super, super helpful and probably the number one thing that organizers in our programs like that call on us for all the time. The very first thing I thought of when you and Emma started talking with something that you and I have talked about a number of times, including, you know, insert. However many years ago, we first started doing these segments and that the if an organization is already taking the time to build up a program, why not build those resource is into tool kits and templates so that organizers don’t even have to bother emailing or calling you to ask for that help. Right? There’s a tool kit that says, Here are three event formats that don’t have a speaker, right? And they could just be like, Oh, phew! Okay, let’s choose one of these, you know, for next month. Since we don’t have a speaker. Whatever building up ready to use resource is is I mean, I could never recommend it enough. You’re already doing that work. You probably already built the template. You just keep it on your computer instead of putting it somewhere where all the organizer’s can access. Okay. Excellent. Yeah, right. the work is done. Just share it way, right? Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve talked about that in terms of identity. And, um what else? What else should be what? It zoho obvious that I can’t think of them. I don’t do this, but what else should be shared like that? Like like meeting temple? Well, yeah, that’s definitely like event formats and that kind of thing. Honestly, the things that we have, especially new Organizer’s folks who are just coming in into that role, but often times in a new city, right? Not that they’re new to that city, but it’s a new city for the program or our new location for the program. The things that they really really benefit from our templates for e mails because that’s where they get to start learning the tone and the personality of the program, right? They’re not expected to know that off the bat and be ableto, you know, send emails out to the local list and everything without just on their own, already knowing that giving them templates like, Hey, here’s the first message that you could send out that says, Hey, we’re starting a group and we want to do a survey of what folks want locally. Amglobal latto. Or here’s a email template for when you have an event scheduled in your, you know, sending it out to put on people calendars. And over time they’ll stop needing those things, but really just definitely something you already have. Right now we have every man we’ve ever sent, so just pull out some of those example. Emails kind of make them generic, right? Like in all caps, City name or whatever. But that’s a huge reverse that folks really have taken a man’s job in our program because it just saved them a lot of stress thinking they’re going to say the wrong thing on Dhe. We interpret that is them really caring right and wanting to make sure that they’re representing and 10 the best they can. And so we want to take that pressure off them and to say, Here are templates and it’s okay to use the gifts and, you know, do what you want to do, have fun with the group because that’s really how we want our kind of brand to be extended, and that takes a lot of pressure off. So basic emails events format and then things like, How do you find a venue and how do you get a local sponsor? Because oftentimes, at least in our experience and our programs, the folks who become organizers are there because they really love the people in the content of the meetings, not because they’re very experienced or even enjoy, like the hustle around town of like High. Will you give us $100 high? Will you donate some pizza? Hi. Can we meet in your office? You know, that’s not the fun part of organizing. And so tips and resource sheets that say, You know, many cities have these types of venues Coworking faces library e-giving them kind of ah, starter kit of where to look for reverses and venues is also really helpful. And we’ve found that’s one of the tools that folks organizer’s like to contribute back thio and add their ideas. So then the next time an organizer is looking at it also has ideas from from other organized. All right, all right. We met at the local museum, and it was fabulous, and they even included a brief tour of the collection and yeah, yeah, Okay. Yeah, learning from each other. Of course. Wonderful. Um, you mentioned Facebook live vs Zoom. And you wanted a want to flush that out a little more, I think. Yeah, I was just curious what you have, what? Your experience that has been. I know that you know that you did some tests with Facebook live? Yeah, it’s difficult. Yeah, I think the 1st 1 failed. Technically, technically. And I have an excellent social manager, Susan Chavez, who are happy to shout out. But there was some button radio, you know, some radio button wasn’t selected right or something. And the thing failed. Um, yeah. And and she knows what she’s doing. No, but yeah, she missed something in the back end. Set up Facebook. So I’m not not through with Facebook. Yeah, And then when we did do it, we did do a live segment. Um, it got some attention. It didn’t didn’t get as much as I would have liked, but some of that may be our own fault in, uh, doing sort of last. Well, maybe not last minute, Like the hour, but not allowing ourselves enough promotion time. That’s what I mean. And just and from the technical side. I much prefer Zoom. The damn thing is just so much easier. There aren’t a whole right. There isn’t a dozen radio buttons you have to configure correctly to get a get a live stream going. It’s all in the background. You pick a few things in settings and very few, and you could be up and running. And it has the auto invitation e mails. And I’m very impressed with Zoom. And you must be due because you said you offer it, use it and you offer it to local local groups for for nothing. Yeah, we’ve been using them. I mean, we used hang out. Um, Skype. We use lots of different things for lots of different purposes, you know? But, um, we just offer you some validation. We have the same experience with Facebook live. I think we tried it two or three times and basically every time failed. One of the time I stopped stopped in the middle of the video and we had to, like, log back in again even though it was broadcasting. So, you know, like maybe five people watched it. But riel reflection there is just like we were saying before. Really choosing the tool based on what you’re doing into the people are and sound like them is working for you. You know, for us we always feel like, you know, are we being so like dodgy by having these kind of boring community calls where we expect people to, like go to our website and say they’re coming and get a link and, you know, have it be kind of like a traditional webinar experience. But when we’ve done things like, you know, Facebook live and whatever else and they’ve been well promoted, there’s like five people there, but for our community calls where we’re doing them in our kind of traditional way of sending emails out and people go to the website and register that they want to come and log in at that very specific time. There’s, like 60 70 people on, so why I feel bad that that’s not working right and why try and go use some shiny Facebook tool that clearly doesn’t work. It’s not very sure it’s very tarnished by now. And if N. 10 which formerly had the word technology in its in its name, can’t figure this out and has a live stream stopping in the middle because of it. I think that that speaks a lot. And I also have seen I’ve been I’ve been invited recently to a lot more zoom events or just meetings just just one on one meetings or or three person meetings on Zoom. Then I have Facebook life. We just have. We have, like, a minute or so left before we have to end already. Um, what are the other recommended tools? Can you can you just take off a couple? Mmm, Other tools. You know something that we don’t know how much we’ve really talked about it, cause it’s not necessarily a social media tool, but it is something that we see the organizer’s really, really relying on. And that’s can va, you know, can yeah, can before for art. Yes, So, like a really lightweight version of photo shop. And what super helpful about it that also has social media templates. So, like these are the dimensions for a Facebook header image that you know all of those pieces. So for Organizer’s, it’s a super easy tool to use, you know, to like change up their promotional materials and make you know images to attach to their tweets to promote an event and that kind of thing. Can you Okay, I give you 30 seconds. Can you take off one more? One more. Quick. Good. Valuable resource. Mmm Mmm mmm. Oh, my gosh. Not under pressure. Uh, got it all graceful under pressure. You know, I think the other thing I was gonna add it’s not a technical tool, but is just a reminder is that you don’t need thio. Put all of the advice into practice because you have a very formalized, already launched program. It may just be that you wanna host across your city a bunch of house parties, right? All of these same kind of pieces of advice and tools and suggestions apply to that same contact, So don’t feel like the whole conversation was only for big international program. This is for anybody that’s trying to decentralize. You’re content in your work. Awesome. That’s a very, very apt ending. Thank you so much. Amy. Sample Ward Amy, Sample word dot or ge And at Amy Rs Ward. Always a pleasure. Thanks so much for sharing, Amy. Yeah, Thanks, Tony. Uh, my pleasure to so long. Next week, Jean Takagi will be with me for the hour on recruiting your board members. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com But cook a Mountain software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits 20 dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO A creative producers. Claire Meyer off Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows social Media is by Serbs and Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this cool music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great What you’re listening to the Talking Alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti, non-profit Radio Fridays 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant, Our Awakening Humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. Do you love? Or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history, its vibe, it’s feel and its energy tune and live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio dahna you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network.

Nonprofit Radio 450th Show Recap

Last week was Nonprofit Radio’s 450th show. Here’s my highlight video including co-host Claire Meyerhoff from the PG Agency and live music from Scott Stein, singing our theme music, “Cheap Red Wine.” Also calls from Gene Takagi, our longest-running contributor, from NEO Law Group; Yigit Uctum from returning sponsor Wegner CPAs; and Peter Panepento at new sponsor Turn Two Communications. And a welcome to new sponsor Cougar Mountain Software.

Best part is the heartfelt cameo from Tony Martignetti, Sr., with commentary on his son. 

Nonprofit Radio for July 26, 2019: 450th Show!

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Claire Meyerhoff, Scott Stein, Maria Semple, Gene Takagi & Amy Sample Ward: 450th Show!
We’re celebrating Nonprofit Radio’s 9th anniversary and 450th show! We’ve got Claire Meyerhoff co-hosting, live music from Scott Stein, giveaways from Cura Coffee, our contributors Maria Semple, Gene Takagi and Amy Sample Ward, July 26 history lessons and lots more fun. To win prizes, tweet about our 450th using #NonprofitRadio. We’ll pick the clever ones and shout you and your nonprofit as winners, making you a part of history. Celebrate with us!

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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View Full Transcript
Transcript for 450_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190726.mp3 Processed on: 2019-07-27T00:45:39.647Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…07…450_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190726.mp3.427129504.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/07/450_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190726.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. You heard that live music. It’s our 450 of show foreigners. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of radio. I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into op Telmo psychosis if I saw that you missed today’s show. It’s our 4/50. Claire Meyerhoff from the PG agency is our guest co host. We’ve got this live music from Scott Stein. All our contributors Jean Takagi, Amy Stamp Award and Maria Simple will be calling in along with the new sponsors to introduce and announce we’re gonna giveaway bags of cure a coffee. Scott is going to be playing more music for us. Claire’s gonna lead us in a fun history lesson. We’re live tweeting with the hashtag non-profit radio, So join us on Twitter. We’re on Facebook. Live at the Tony No at on my page. Tony martignetti zoho of your If you are a friend there, we’re on Facebook. But if not Twitter with the hashtag non-profit radio. This is all on our 4/50 show, ninth anniversary Thank you so much for being with us. Were sponsored by Response, sir by Wagner c. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial also sponsored by turn to Communications, p. R and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two t w o dot co So that website is turn hyphen. T w o dot CO and for the 450th show were sponsored by Cure Coffee connecting coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. Cure a cough a dot com. Don’t you talk pretty? That’s clear. Meyerhoff. Welcome. Welcome. Oh, she’s a trained. She’s radio could tell that I’m on treyz Telemann train and she’s a pro. Welcome back to the show in my heart for 50. Thank you for coming up. Thank you. Came from Washington D c. I drove actually was in New England. Drove down yesterday. Will be driving back to D. C. Welcome. Bible days are creative producer. It’s good to have you. Yes, way We started this show. Will you started the show. But I helped you way back when you asked me some for some advice, and you were like, What would you charge me? And I’m like, you know, really wouldn’t charge you anything. But you know what I’d like? I’d like my name at the end of the credits of every show. It’s been their claim. Our creative producer, cloudgood I know it’s serving last. That’s what you want. It’s there. Nine years. It’s been, like one. A legacy. Scotty Stein’s got Stein. Welcome back. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Always good to see it. Always good to be beyond the show. Pleasure. I love having you for the anniversary shows. You bring your keyboard. Yep. We’re gonna hear cheap red wine. We are gonna hear a brand new composition World release. Ah, yeah. I wrote it this morning. Okay. E wrote it this morning. First to hear it are awesome. Yes. What? What’s going on in the Scott Stein music World Music gigs coming up? Yeah, actually, doing a gig out in Brooklyn on Monday at a place called Bark or Tits And the debt. Ms. Park section of Brooklyn, close to where I live. Uh, me and three other songwriters Jerry Cherry, Kyle Lacey and Sarah Wise doing kind of a song writers in the round thing. It’s a great little room for that. So I’m doing that on that. I’m about to head to Chicago on Wednesday. I’m goingto Lollapalooza. I’m playing really play? No, I am playing a CZ part of a kid’s rock fan, Joanie Leeds in The Night Lights who I’ve worked with for almost 10 years. Uh, we’re playing the kids stage at Lollapalooza on Thursday. Friday, Joanie Leeds and that’s it. Love that. Congratulations, follow-up, Pollux. Yeah, I’m excited. How do they define kids at Lollapalooza? But, uh, I think 10 and under. Okay. I mean, I think the general demographic for Joni’s me could be anything from like toddlers up. Three. Think that 1st 2nd grade, something like that. It’s pretty broad range of children’s ages, but a lot of fun. It’s super super fun. Congratulations. Thank you. It’s awesome. Yeah, What’s going on in the clear Meyerhoff PG agency World plan giving creative. I continue to help lots of wonderful non-profit organizations with their legacy programs, helping them build out their legacy societies and helping them reach and engage their best prospect. So they make requests and other plan gif ts to their favorite non-profit charities. About s So where you living now? You live in North Carolina and I live in Washington, D C live in Alexandria, Virginia, in Alexandria. Okay. Okay. What’s Ah, that’s a cool town. It’s great a lot going on right now. That’s Ah, that’s the new isn’t Google. It’s coming. The Amazon Amazon. Remember? Amazon had the big contest and it shows part of Arlington, Virginia to be the darling of Alexander. Pretty darn close. Pretty close. Does this mean your property value is going about my condo in October? And it’s already increased quite a bit. So it was. It’s been good for real estate, Awesome in the DC area, people buzzing about this And I guess that’s the thing like Courtney, I don’t know. You know, you’re not in the, you know, in the local Well, there’s a lot to talk about. What you live in Washington, D. C, for instance. There’s this guy on Pennsylvania Avenue and there’s this Congress and okay, so people talk about it and then they talk about non-profit radio there, like every day I walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, our Constitution evident. People are just talking about Tony martignetti non-profit radio and I go What’s not to talk? That’s great. It’s 9th 9th 10th anniversary. You know, I can’t believe Help me. You did help me in the beginning. It’s got nine years on. I have, I have when I’m gonna get to actually way could share these Now I got I got the history is where it was a little thematic Well, history’s thematic thing Yes, you’re clear Your very first show non-profit radio. Yeah, I have it. Here’s the show sheet from It was July 23rd 2010. Wow, nine years ago. That was nine years ago. We started in July. So you were on, like the third or fourth show I was. What was I talking about? I think donorsearch Tory’s for playing storytelling was actually story storytelling in jargon. Remember mary-jo argast maybe jargon jail Throw people in jargon jail. That was your charge. It was your concept. I hate jargon. Credit. I hate the word used all the time. I don’t want any. I don’t ever want to hear the word youth in everything because as I learned in broadcast journalism from Bill Torrey at American University. He said no one ever says, like I saw five youths running down the street. People don’t talk like that. No, this I saw you got five teenagers, five young people running down the street. But that was your first show and jargon. See, the, uh well, I made you those shows. She’s a major your clock. But look how Look at the comparison. I mean, there’s the 2010 show sheet is just like lines, right? And the 2019 is big paragraphs. Dense. We got more going on. All right. Scott Stein. I got your first, uh, Scott Stein. We first used your music on the September 6 2013 show That’s coming up nine years. Yeah, I know. I’m sorry. Wait. Coming up. Six years starts coming up six years? Yes, exactly. I agree. And ah, so that was And that was the first time we used it. And then your for your first time, live with us. Was the 200 show July 18 2014. Okay, 200. You’ve been here for every anniversary since. Except one. Yeah, there was one. I had to go to your apartment record, right? I think I was gonna be on the road or something. That during that during the live broadcast. So yeah, but I pre recorded way pre recorded cheap red wine and played it. I don’t know if that was the 3/50. It was like the one you’ve been on every anniversary since doing every 50. It’s fun. It’s really like a high. Almost like a highlight of the year I turned summer. I’m like, Oh, pretty soon we’re going to do the New York New York show. You think about just I love it. It’s fun because biggest for me. I worked in radio for years, and it’s like my only radio thing I do anymore. We’re gonna turn Scottie. Alright, cheap red wine. This is the song that I licensed from you in 2013. And of course, we only sample of 10 seconds before the vocals. You know, Uh, so I always wanted it. I always want you to play it live. Yeah, and full. And so, if anything you want to say about cheap red wine, I don’t know. This song is older than the show. Uh, comes from a record that it did back in 2009 10 years ago. And I think the song was had already had it for about a year before that. But, uh, yeah, it’s Ah, it’s been really fun. Thio here. It used in this kind of context, So happy to do it for you, son. Please hurry up, baby. Just keep talking sooner later. Offing a routes to what you mean seeking romantic advice from a bimbo. Dumb luck never answers upon a TV street way can agree on nothing way Get tail or ups from my down It is a pawn in each other now, baby. And this look that we found you know you used if I’m a charming gonna can figure out how And you said you thought I was handsome But it doesn’t matter now so keep fallin lungs Your time will allow because I gotta empty promises every bottle of cheap red wine and wait, Wait, Just diamonds. They won’t talk to the cut of clothing that I wear with good stuff when you’re too easily distracted too. Okay, you got to, man. So I’m gonna do the best that I can, but maybe you have some competition day when I’m a wealthy man. You know, I used to find a charming, but I can’t figure out how you said you thought. Always handsome. But it doesn’t matter now, so get full in my punch. Sloane’s your time allow because I’ve got her and promises a bottle of cheap wine. And let’s raise our glasses to take a drink of better days. The other bilich a kiss like that, you say, And I ain’t gonna kill Helen’s dialogue. National victory signs. Who’s We’re perfect for each other long nobody else. Nobody is way. You know, you used to find me charming, but I can’t figure out how you said your father was. Hanson never minded, no matter now. So he had fallen from a punch. Eyes is like your time will allow. Got her Any promises? Neo-sage I love that. I just love that song. Thank you. There’s nobody waiting in line just like cheap red wine. Love. It’s got Thank you. Thank you so much. E-giving are gonna play another one for us later on. Yeah, the the World release premiere. Um I want to give away a prize. We’ll start with Yes. We’ll start with our prize is the 1st 1 is going to This is these are our recent subscribers to the insider alerts where you get it. You get an email from me every Thursday tells you the guest star insider alerts linked to my video on the 1st 1 The most recent to be subscribed is Dennis Lee. Dennis is executive director at the Marching Elite Foundation. So Dennis is gonna get a pound of cure coffee. Congratulations, Dennis Lee, Your coffee going to Dennis Lee? Thank you for being our most recent insider dentist. And, um, we have a little, uh we have a little We have a little bit about, uh, a little bit about your cure Coffee. Well, what we do, we D’oh! I love your coffee. It’s my favorite cure. A coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. And, you know, with every cup of cure, you joined their effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. They are a direct trade coffee company Now, with learning opportunities for dental students in the U. S and abroad. Cure coffee dot com. I love that mission that is so great. They do the dental work for the farmers of the of the beans because the CEO of the company is a dentist. That’s great. I love that Thomas Godlessness. Fantastic. He’s a dentist in California. Yes, bona fide dds after his name. So maybe I’ll go to California to see him. Because, you know, a good dentist. That’s that’s what you find when you stay for life. I’m going to California for years old Blue Frost and Rutherford, New Jersey. Really? Um, yeah. Trust in, like, 3000 dentists. And then you’re not going to, you know, practice dental loyalty. Well, I D’oh, but I guess I have moved to other places where it’s not practical to my dentist and Carl play. Well done, Island, New York. You’ll dentist with anybody? Nothing. My original dentists. Bad reputation, the bad dental grip. You should practice more dental lorts. I hope you’re practicing safe industry. I have my new dentist in Shady Side Maryland. 1,003,000. Dentists. I hope you’re doing it safely. Um, So there was something, huh? Let’s see. Where are we now? Okay, Is that it’s somebody on the phone. Oh, excellent. Okay. Awesome. That must be Jean Takagi. Hey, Jane. Congratulations. Thank you. That is Jean Takagi Eyes our legal contributor, Jean Jean. The Law machine. You’ll find him at neo-sage log group dot com and he’s at G. Tack on Twitter. Longstanding, longstanding contributor. How are you, Gene? I’m doing excellent. How are you? Oh, very good. It’s the 4450th 9th anniversary, huh? You know, we’re doing great. My voice is cracking, which means I’m excited that we’re doing great. Like I’m 14. Um, what’s going on? It, uh, like Neil latto. What do you, uh, what you all paying attention to in San Francisco? We’re enjoying this summer. It’s not. It’s not so hot here. So we’re having fun here, And, uh, I’m working with my partner, Aaron bradrick and Cindy latto. Actually, who’s the director of the master of masters and science of the non-profit management program at Columbia University. Designed a course for the program that we’re really looking forward to doing that. So does that mean you’re gonna be in New York teaching? I may be a little bit more, but we’re doing the design phase right now. Still in design phase. Okay, but you’re hired, right? It’s not You’re going to do it. We’re all working it out right now. Okay? I won’t make any premature announcements. Would get everybody excited. I’m sure we’ll be the first to know. Yeah, yeah, we’re here. We’re here in New York. It’s gotta be. It’s gonna be the breaking news here, so let us know, Gene. Absolutely. Okay. Um and what would you be teaching? It’ll be a program on sort of a business law issue for for non-profit professionals programme A programme? Oh, not just Of course I was I was minimizing it. What would be like a top topic in that in that class for non-profits that they would need to know about what’s what’s a top 10? Things like public private partnership collaborations and kind of some of the legal issues that may arise in those type of interaction. All right, well, you let us know when it breaks. Gene, you’re, uh I always talk about when you’re first way talk about when you were first on the show and then I never know exactly, but I found it this time. I actually did the legwork. It only took me about three years. We’ve been talking about this, but your very first time on this show was August 27th 2010. Nine years. We have just about nine years. Way had just started in July 1010 1 of the show’s Gene’s been on forever. Yeah, regular contributes an original. Well, that’s why he’s changing the law machine. Yeah, he’s on his own longest running contributor. Not not producer. Is that, like Israel tag liners? That attack line you gave him again? He’s too modest. These jeans. A very modest man. He wouldn’t He wouldn’t do that to himself. Right? So you like Tony? Tony, you cringe, Gene, when I say that the radio machine, it’s just a little bit you blush a little bit. Tony Tony, the radio pony like that? Uh, more like a horse, but not a pony. Move on. All right, Jean, I want to thank you so much for calling. It’s good to talk to you. It’s been always my honor and pleasure to Congrats on for 50 and looking for Thio. All of you. Thanks. Thanks a lot. And he has it in his bio. I love that. Thank you, Jean. Good to talk to you. And thanks so much for what you contribute. Thank you, guys. Thanks. Jane. Already anywhere else on the phone. Okay, then, uh, there was this New York Times article on podcasting. Yes, I saw it. And there’s you emailed, just like two weeks ago that I was so excited. But I thought of you as soon as I read it. I did because I said to a friend of mine I was with my friend Laurie and we were reading New York Times at our favorite Starbucks in Newburyport, Massachusetts, and I turned to Laurie. And I said, Look at this article about podcast and and my friend Tony, He has this long time podcast I think he liked goes down into the history books for the podcast. And I think there were a lot of great points made in that podcast. And Sam talked about one of them. Scott Well, Scott. Oh, so Well, Sam talked about what, The 19%? Yeah. Uh um, from march to May of this year, 19% of podcasts had a new episode, right? And there’s something like 700,000 podcasts, and only 19% of those has have produced a new episode in the last few months. So they’re staying. They’re mostly stay after men s three months. March, April May s O That alone puts us in the 81st percentile just of eso tribute to how much work you put into this. You know, I think one of the up shots of the article was that a lot of people go into podcasting and think it’s easy and think it’s, you know, it’s It’s not as much work as it is. And it’s to your credit that you’ve kept this thing going, not just for the number of years but the number of episodes. It’s a lot of work. You have to really devote yourself to it. And, ah, you know, it’s that the technology may not. Maybe, you know, it may be easy for everyone to get started, but it’s hard to to sustain it. And ah, knowing your audience of having your niche is is a big part of it, which is something that you have it. And they said that in the article, Yeah, yeah, And over the years since I’ve been involved with your podcast, people will be try. Oh, I want to do a podcast. I want to do a podcast and I say, Well, do you have any idea what goes into a podcast? Because my friend Tony martignetti has been doing one for 789 10 10 years now, and and he does them consistently every single week, except for two weeks a year. So he does 50 podcasts a year and to produce a podcast every single week and book the guests and come up with the topics and write all the things and keep the sponsors and work with Sam and and work with Scott. And to get it all done is really a great achievement. So around of applause, that’s a good tagline that zoho that’s a good better than the non-profit pony. Yeah, radio pony Radio Way could let the pony die. I send the money to a farm in the form of a glue factory farm in Vermont. That boy got quickly. Thank you. Thanks a lot. I guess it’s, uh it’s gratifying. It’s just a love affair. I just love doing the show and all the work. Uh, it doesn’t matter, cause I know that, uh, we’re helping non-profits helping small and midsize shops who I always have in mind as I’m as I’m doing it. That’s the God and, Scott, you gotta be in a niche. You gotta be loyal to your listeners that gotta get values value to listeners. Otherwise, right, they’re going to be Oh, there’s Ah, major correlation between that and being a musician, you got to know who your audience is Without that, it’s very, very difficult, right? And provide content specifically for them. And don’t drift off into other places and provide, like something else just cause you want to so right, like you don’t have a sudden play like, you know, the hokey pokey Or do you want me? And I am playing kids music in later? Well, I guess the parallel only goes so far. There’s there’s there’s a balance to be struck for sure, but, uh, we got off the mood strikes. We got somebody on the phone who is very committed to like exactly what we’re talking about. Staying true to mission, not veering. And that is an example. Ward our social media and technology contributors. Do-it-yourself Award. How are you? I’m doing great. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Were you able to hear our conversation while you’re on hold. There. I You did. So we were just talking about staying true to mission, right? I mean, you’re about that. Yeah. And I was reflecting on, you know, the whole, like, 50 episodes a year, All the work that you do to make sure that you have tops and people to join the show and all of those things And how many times we’ve been on. And I wanted to make a joke, but I didn’t make it because I felt like, maybe I maybe I should sensor that joke. But I was Yeah. How is there anything to say anymore? But you always find new things to talk about. And I think that’s to your credit. Thank you very much. You help? You’ve been contributing a long, long time on social media and technology. Your first show with us was, um it was July 13th 2012. The 100 show. Exactly. Right. Um, And at that time, with the 100 show, we had 1000 listeners. So yeah, so two years into this thing. So we started in July 2010 July 2012. Your first show, 100 listeners. I’m sorry 100 shows. We were celebrating having 1000 listeners, and now we’re over 13,000. Wow, that’s pretty cool. I think that’s you know, that’s that’s great. Thanks pretty good. 13,000. Pretty good. 13,000% growth. Is it 15%? I don’t know. 13,000% better. It’s more than 13% stock in that 50% of thousands. 130. It’s 13,000% growth 1000 times. This is not the math show, right? 15,000% growth is 13,007. We got it sends a music show non-profits fun stuff, no matter what’s going on it and 10 dot org’s You know, I love non-profit. You know, I love intent. I’m not supposed to say no. Never What? Uh, what’s going on in time going on while we have, um, 20 ntcdinosaur action proposals just opened. So people are submitting their ideas. And this year, for the first time, we have moved the ignite applications intothe same sessions, a mission timeline. So in the past, ignites which are a type of presentation with five minutes exactly, and you have 20 sign and the slides auto advance every 15 seconds, and they are hosted up on the main stage as one of the general sessions in the morning. In the past, applications to be one of those people opened Ah lot later in the year after registration was already open, they were open in, like, November and December. Okay, but this year we decided to do it all at the same time. So what types of conversations or topics? They want a surface of the conference. They you know, they could do that a little bit more holistically. So, uh, sessions in-kind of more standard breakout format as well as the main stage content, are all open for submissions. Right? Cool. And this is all for really big. This is offer. Then this is all for 20 and T c. Right? Next. Give us the dates for 20. Sure. 20 ntcdinosaur be in Baltimore, Maryland, which we’ve never been to before. I mean, people I’m familiar with the conference has never been hosted in Baltimore, and we will be there march 24th through 26. Okay, Okay. Cool. So submissions air open you goto and 10 dot Or if you want to submit, it’s a very, very good conference. Non-profit radio has been there, I think, half a dozen times. Maybe I’m exaggerating. Maybe it’s only five, but always on the exhibit floor, capturing the brilliant speakers that that a subset of the brilliant speakers that in 10 has and expanding their reach and expanding the reach of the conference. I love doing it, You know I do. Amy, don’t You know I love it. We lose any sample word? Well, trust me, she knows She knows that I love it every step forward. No, no more. Okay, well, I’ll pretend that you may be speaking. Well, it’s a great conference, and everyone should go. And it’s in Baltimore. Yes. And, uh, that’s two of us. Who, speaking for Amy. Amy, thank you very much for calling. And thank you for being ah, contributor for so many years from since the 100 show. Thanks. Thanks so much, Aimee. Simple work. She’s great. Um, let’s I want to welcome one of our new sponsors. Um, and that is, uh, Cougar Mountain Cuckoo Mountain software. They do accounting software for non-profits, the Denali fundez your complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profits. They have a free 60 day trial and you can find that a tony dot m a slash cougar Mountain. Don’t you talk pretty, tony dot m a slash cougar mountain for your free 60 day trial of the Denali Fund. Your complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profit. Very excited to hear about it And brand new brand new sponsor. Because because non-profits need things to be more, you know, simple and specific. And Taylor to them agree. Not using QuickBooks, which is designed which is made for corporate and individual and, ah, trying to tailor it to a non-profit. It doesn’t doesn’t work because you got your fund accounting problems, which right? Denali farmer takes takes care of you. Come on to talk about, uh, no, but but he’s the marketing manager. Brian. Brian. Brian blessed our marketing manager who have been working with Welcome, Brian. Glad to have you. Thank you. Thank you for joining. Not properly with a sponsor. Thank you, Brian. And thank you. Cougar Mountain software. Um, you had, you know, a little something going on. You want to talk about a little history? I do. Well, Mr Ethan, will you know, Tony, your show really is historic to may that this is the 450th show. As we discussed earlier in our discussion about how podcasts are, really, you know, it’s just hard to produce these podcasts and keep them going. So so kudos to you for doing this historical show. So today, in honor of that, as you enter the history books, I have a little game for us, a little door just a little today in history thing. So the 1st 1 I want to mention is that and and you asked me when I say that I would do this well, that clears air non-profit angle to it. So I’m gonna try to do my best to Time non-profits to these as much as possible. So in 17 75 the office that would later become the United States Post Office Department was established by the second Continental Congress. Benjamin Franklin, Pennsylvania was the first postmaster general now way have a musical clue for you on the state. In 17 88 a certain state became the first actually became ratified as state in the United States. The 11 state. Which day was it? We have a musical clue wrote down. Try it again. Scott, New York, New York so that non-profit Italian is, Of course, that’s the home of non-profit radio. Oh, that’s tenuous. Oh, my goodness. That’s cool. What? You’re clever. Well, and for the post office one, I was gonna say the tie in is how much not how much mail have non-profits sent over the years through the U. S. Postal Service? Thanks to Benjamin Franklin Weaken, send nice mailers to people to raise money. Clever mailers, envelopes post towards all that, All that. So on this day in 1945 the Labour Party one the United Kingdom General election by a landslide and that removed Winston Churchill from power on this day, the Labour Party. One serious. Winston Churchill was a Tory. I guess I should have done that. But, um yes, of the Labour Party came into power today. So in 1947 Harry Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947 creating the C I A, the Department of Defense, the United States Air Force, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the United States National Security Council. And I do not have a non-profit tie into that. But you know, that’s great. It’s okay. That’s important. Are we Don’t you cut me off because I got a whole thing here. I know. We got it. We got a call her. We have a call or ever sponsored me. Can we come back to our way? I can’t. I don’t want to keep promises. I can’t keep way. Way will try. Okay, you duitz doom. How are you? Hey, Tony. Good. Very good. Very good. How you doing in there? I’m sorry. Thank you very much. Are you in Madison, Wisconsin? Yes, I am. Okay. Of course I’m grateful to you because, uh, you’ve been a guest on the show a bunch of times. In fact, your your first time on the show keeping with the history theme that Claire set up for us. Mystery theme That clears that up for us. Ah, was September 12 2014. So five years ago, almost five years and you’ve been on you’ve been on a couple times. And I’m also, of course, grateful for, uh, for Wagner. C p. A sponsorship. It’s been a couple of years now, and I’m grateful for that. That’s awesome. Yeah. They’ve been with us a couple of years waiting to cps dot com. What’s, um What’s what’s Wagner looking at for non-profits this summer? First of all, we’re really be supporting your show. And I would like to thank you for your dedication again. Um, for nine years now and helping out the other 95% of the pregnancy. The eighties. They were looking at you a constant standard. All the very, very fighting. Okay, Yeah. Don’t go into detail on you. Can’t be gonna be different going forward. It’s gonna be more challenging. And we’re helping our clients kind of, like navigate through the complexity that giving them some implementation plan. Okay. And wedding has a bunch of webinars they’re doing this summer. I’ve been a summer on the fall. I’ve been promoting them on the show. So you’ve got a ramped up Your free resource is for non-profits. Yeah, we started thing, baby nurse. I get like, two years ago now and we plan on doing a lot more and abila xero pompel latto part that other other resource is we’re creating for our clients again. We work with a lot of nonprofit organizations and we understand that they enough resource is sometimes like the other 5% provide that. Yes, Thank you like the other 5%. Thank you very much. Um, eat. We have to go. But I want to thank you again. Thank you for the sponsorship. Thank you for your sharing the value that you do when you’re a guest. And, uh, we’re gonna get it. Be getting you back. I know you and I are working on that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for having their happy contribute. Thanks. Thank you so long. So long. Uh, let’s give away another prize. I don’t give a prize. Another sec a second. Most recent, uh, new insider on this is Thio Alana Cooper, who is the senior director of donor relations at the Jewish Federation of Palm Beach County Beach County, Florida. Alana Cooper is gonna be a bag of your coffee coming your way. Congratulations, Alana. That’s a wonderful non-profit organization. You know what? Your federal I’m very familiar with the Jewish Federation of Palm Beach in that area. Would you, uh, cubine teamviewer quaint? Just with the cure of one more time? Cura Uh, okay. You’re a coffee. Well, I love Kira coffee because it directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. With every cup of cura, you join their efforts to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. They are a direct trade coffee company now with learning opportunities for dental students in the U. S and abroad. Cure a coffee dot com and now I want coffee. Thank you. It’s so hot in here. You sure you want coffee? One iced coffee? It’s the reason the reason I’m here is because the host doesn’t like the air conditioner on really during the during this show. If anyone was wondering because it makes me I don’t care for So that’s why um let’s do the live lister love because we’re, uh, cool like this. Look at this list of listeners. I mean, it’s incredible. Look at this. The sheet of live listeners, um, shot him out. San Francisco, California Middlebury P A. Longview, Texas Tampa, Florida Alexandria, Virginia. I lived My neighbor. You leave is listening. Yeah, sure. Awesome life. Listen, love to Alexandria and Washington D. C. Right by them if he’s listening. Oakland, California monisha, New York, New York. We got multiple New York, New York, as usual. That’s good. Uh, Charlotte, North Carolina. Um, Seoul, Korea. Seoul? Yes. We got Seoul, South Korea, on your haserot. Come So ham Nida, for our Seoul Korea. For our South Korean Romania, Romania is with us. Tulani osili Ramani Iran. Iran. I was I was recently very close to Tehran, Iran. I was nearby. You were living in January. We took a cruise and and for a while my phone gave me a little thing. It said I was in Tehran. All right, let’s take a person. All right. Theron, live. Listen, love out through Tehran. Um s boo. I don’t know if I’m pronouncing right, but the country is Finland. Yes, piela Oh, as proof Inland, Uh, live nation left to you and, uh, also abroad. We got some other broad. Uganda, Kampala, Kampala, Uganda Indeed. Also in South Korea. Got CEO Joo. Were you near Seo? No, but I might go there next year. Okay. Ono Japan and bringing it back. Uh, we got Hell’s kitchen. That’s interesting. Hell’s kitchen. New York shows up differently than New York, New York. That’s funny. A lot of good restaurants Night. They have 10th abila station live listener left to you. And congratulations on showing up separately from all our other New York New York listeners going upstate Watertown, New York is with us. Um, going out a little West West Salem, Ohio, and um oh, Munich, Germany. Gooden, dahna and Freeport, New York Report, Long Island, New York Report New York Right near There you do. I’m pretty far away from Carl koegler York C a R E l E P L A c They’re working on the new train station there. My friend Mary Ann was right by the trains. It is being to get that extra stuff going on. Moscow’s with us. Moscow nasco I don’t and no Russia. And ah said Munich, Germany. All right, so live Mr Love. Awesome. And Sam, if anyone new ones come in, that’s treyz. Would you update us, please? Because I want to shout out everybody falik If there’s all over the place all over the world, it’s incredible. We got multiple multiple continents, indeed. And of course, the podcast pleasantries were multi Continental and were, and even, uh, further reach then the live love is the podcast. Love the podcast. Pleasantries to the outs where the over 13,000 people listening each week on small and midsize non-profits, uh, CEO, executive directors, fundraisers, board members, consultants and other vendors to non-profits. Podcast Pleasantries to you. Thank you for being with us. I hope the show continues to serve. You give you value. I believe it does cause the listener numbers keep growing, so and the feedback I get is positive. So thank you for being with us podcast, especially board members like you. Dorothy Hamill. Today’s her birthday. Today’s Dorothy Hamill’s birthday. What is your boardmember? She is a boardmember or a recent boardmember of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra. How do you know all this? But well, because I researched the whole bit that I was going to do today. So I know your birthday’s today and everything that happened today in history. So I’ve got a musical clue from Scott here. There’s a the original sitcom anarchist, the original sitcom actresses Birthday today. Who is it? Close. It’s Ethel’s birthday. Vivian Vance Vance and she was married to William Frawley know they were well on the show. They hated each other in real life. They hated each other. It’s a legend that was Fred. Fred and Ethel never even spoke off. Hated each other. You got one more. You got another history thing, another history things. So there’s there’s another. It’s another musical clue And someone’s birthday today. What’s the band? Sam knows Rolling Stones today is Mick Jagger’s birthday. Uh, that sounds better on the guitar by, and I do not have, like, a non-profit link to Mick Jagger. Actually, I found that I think he’s kind of not that charitable that he spends a lot of time trying to hide his body from the But he’s born July 20,000 fans she shares a birthday with Britt said non-profit really are all right. Hyre s Let’s, uh, there’s another Tony martignetti in the studio here. Oh, step up. Step up to Scott’s Mike, would you Come on. Come on, Come on. You’re gonna be on a podcast. Yes, I’m gonna like there’s another Tony most second. There’s a second Tony martignetti here. I just want a little shout from better looking. Thank you. Thank you. Come a little closer. That every proud of my son on the work he’s doing for nonprofit organizations goblets and and thank you for your faithfulness. Appreciate it. Thank you, Dad. Thank you. That’s so sweet. And after the show, I’m gonna explain to Dad what a podcast is. He’s got to start his own podcast. Uh, all right, well, uh, Scott, I wanted to Ah, what you do? Another song you got? You got a world world premiere. Yeah. Uh, they said earlier on the show. I wrote this this morning, which is half true. Um, I have had a part of this song running through my head for the better part of, ah month. And then I wrote a quick, rough draft Ah, a couple of weeks ago, and then I wasn’t quite sure where the music was gone, and I put it aside. And this morning I had about 15 minutes, and I was like, Let’s just let’s just finish this song, right? You know, sometimes songs spring songs are like, Sometimes it’s like pulling teeth. And sometimes it’s like cooking breakfast. And, uh, this one’s been a little of each make on fits and starts. So what is it? Uh, I have a number of ah, All right. World release a cz yet? Untitled. Yeah, I think I got a couple possible titles. Ilsen Okay, maybe we’ll challenge. Maybe we’ll challenge listeners to come up with a title for Scott Stein. So listen closely. And, uh, at the end at the end, we’ll tell you how you can reach Scott with your title suggestion. Great. Great. All right. How does this go again? I am only half joking now. That’s too all right. Uh, Getsem inside information. Someone’s me a copy of the master plan. Sources were dependable, but they’re in a language I don’t understand. You know what? I’ve always been a sin for as long as I can remember. Always skipping past super landings. Always looking for that snow in September. Good. The way you play the song. Always someone since long Booth. Some days your own busy Some days you can’t get a damn thing done. Some days you get the car key. Some days it’s the keys to the king. Sometimes the changing of the guard, professor than changing of Caesar way Sometimes the people that you love way very good reason. Wait. I once was beginning. Wait, don’t just watch. You know, watching you know. All right, Scott, that Claire was smiling. Way no, Scotty. So talented. He’s right here. And this is great. Absolutely often do have, like this really good artist right in front of you Sing a song he just wrote first here. I think my favorite part was hit the last court, and there was a truck or something going by honking his horn. I’m saying I don’t like you understand? Like those of you who are listening. I’m on a keyboard. I’m not on a piano, so I’m going like this. Think didn’t just go out. Oh, what did I hit? A wrong note. I think I was right. It’s got if if people do wantto well, give you feedback and or maybe even give you a suggested title, How did they reach you? Uh, on social media on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. I met Scott Stein music on my wife’s a Scott Stein music dot com where you get to come out to bar chord in Brooklyn on Monday. And there’s my little plugs. There are New York, New York and Hell’s Kitchen listeners. Absolutely. Um, when else do you play in New York? Give us a little, um right now I’m actually just getting back into playing gigs. Uh, I’m just getting back into the into the map. for a while. Um, I took a little hiatus. My wife and I had a baby in October. Maybe boy and early October. What? October, uh, cover nine. Nice. Very nice. And thank you. So s so. I took a little time off from that. And as could imagine, my spare time is non existent these days. So it’s every second is precious these days. And, er eso I’m doing I’m doing this show tomorrow and I’m doing another one back-up Bark or another song Writers in the round on August 19th of things. The date’s on Monday evening and then hopefully more on the fall once I’m sleeping a little. Congratulations. Awesome. Thank you. We got we got another new sponsor on the phone. Peter panepento. How are you? I’m doing great. How are you? Very well, thank you. Peter panepento is with turn to communications, and they’re also a brand new sponsor of non-profit radio. So I thank you very much for that, Peter. Yeah, Thank you. Unfortunately, I didn’t bring my keyboard or my singing voice quite entertaining. No, no, you’re Scott Scott is up to the company. Would have been up to your competition too. So uh, what’s turned to tell us? You know, I’m telling listeners 32nd bursts, but you could take 45 seconds and tell us what turned to is about. Sure. So turn to is a consulting company. We provide PR and communications and marketing support, too. Non-profits and foundations. And it stems from my experience in the non-profit and foundation world. I was an editor or a number of years, the Chronicle philanthropy, and actually had a co host a podcast with you way back when Tony and Thea to see you’re still going so strong after all these years. And we’re really adept at hoping translate the messages that, um that non-profits hell thio to their key audiences and making sure that we’re doing it in a way that really resonates with them and help them make a bigger impact with their work. And, of course, their turn hyphen too dot Co ceo. Um, Peter, you were You were first on this show. Now I was on. I was on your show when you were ah, doing a podcast for The Chronicle. We’re not sure who was first, but I I know. I don’t know. I don’t know if you could look back in your archive, but I look back to the non-profit radio archive and you were first on non-profit radio on August 13th 2010. That was our that was our second month. So you are also very early newcomer. Yes, we were. Yeah, we were. We were blazing new trails back then, Tony, and it’s really amazing how much podcasting and digital radio has has grown up since then. It’s, uh it’s really been been really cool to have been on the ground floor of things like podcasting in social media and and webinars and everything else that we were doing at the Chronicle back in-kind of the explosion of the Internet. And and it’s been really, really cool. You you started out as as one of the, uh, as one of the staple podcasters for The Chronicle back when we were when I was there, too, and, um, hard to believe it’s almost 10 years now that’s making me feel quite old. It is. Uh, you’re referring. I think Thio fund-raising fundamentals which you produce. We collaborated on that. Peter and I would collaborate. It was it was a chronicle chronicle podcast, and I was on that I did a e-giving one. You were on fund-raising fundez forgot. Thank you. Yes, that’s right. That was That was that was a different format with 10 minutes. We were people. We were trying to keep those, like, 10 12 minutes. Max, Right? Right. Yes. And the thinking was we needed to keep it short for people to want to listen to us for tea, get to the end that way. Wanted to keep it short and tight. And you’ve really been ableto build a really engaging, thoughtful, long format program. And the fact that you do it so consistently is is really a testament Thio your skillet this but also the amount of work. You’re putting it really incredible. Thanks a lot, Peter. And, uh And who would have thought when you were a guest, 2010 our second month that nine years later you’d be your company? You have a company, and you’d be sponsoring non-profit radio knife. I thank you for being our newest sponsor. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. It’s a pleasure to do it. I’m thrilled to be associated with it and hope you have 454 Thank you. Thanks a lot. We’ll be talking. Thanks a lot, Peter. So long. All right. Thank you. Bye. We got Maria Semple online. Maria Semple. How are you? I’m doing very well. Thanks. How are you? Awesome. Thank you for calling. Maria. Simple That she’s the Prospect Finder. She’s at Maria Simple. She’s the You’ll find the site prospect finder dot com No, wait. I messed that up. You know the prospect finder dot com The prospect finder dot com All right. To the source. And she’s at Maria. Simple. Did I get that right? That’s right. After all these years, you would think I would know. Yes. All right. How are you, Maria? Simple. I’m doing very well today. Thank you. Okay. And we’re well here, too. Is having a great time there? Yes, we are. 4/50 anniversary shows were always cool. Absolutely. Um, congratulations. You got what you got going on for your summer. Ah, well, I am calling you today from the beautiful downtown waterfront in Beaufort, North Carolina. Uh, yes, yes. Uh, can I stay here? The weather finally broke. We don’t have the crazy humidity today, so all is good. Are you on your boat. Wonderful. Wonderful. I am effort. That’s awesome. Um, okay. Uh, so I wanted to congratulate Scott as well. Real quick. I heard that he had a baby. I love the new song. It’s a good life. I have a feeling that maybe, uh, did the baby get some inspiration to that? That song, perhaps. I love it. Yeah, you may have. May have uncovered something in there. Yeah, that’s certainly at the forefront of, like everything I do. Right? Oh, thank you. Yeah. Maria, your first show with us was August 12th 2011. So you’re You’re a newcomer. You’ve only been on eight years. You’re a newcomer. Oh, boy. Don’t hold that against nine years. I think it’s pretty. That’s quite the legacy. My nose was cool, but she’s been gone eight of nine years. 9 8/9 What’s that? That’s a lot of divide. A nine latto percent that? Yeah, that’s a long time. So the Prospect Finder and the first thing we talked about was linked in for prospect research. That was your first subject with my like Clinton linked in. Yeah, it did for prospectuses. Right there. It’s bonified duvette duvette no duitz still talking about that today? Yes. So what’s your latest? Yeah, what’s the latest thing we should know about Lincoln and Prospect finding? Um Well, you can definitely do an awful lot still with the advanced search feature for free. And, um, you know, some folks deciding to take advantage of a free month of premium Thio get the, you know, the additional search fields and so forth. So certainly something to think about. I love Lincoln. Great. Yeah. Yeah, because after all these years of, like, sort of collecting people, it’s like this awesome roll index that keeps updating itself, and you never know. You might find I have. I’ve gotten a lot of work from lugthart valuable. Yeah, well, people will, like, sort of follow me on Lincoln for a while, then refer me to someone and mostly biggest. They know me from linked it not from in person, so it’s kind of interesting. Yeah. Okay. Glad it’s working for you. Reassemble. And so you feel like the free premium is worth checking out, Maria? Uh, definitely. Yeah. Why not? I mean, if you could do something for free for 30 days, why not? Um, definitely, But have a plan. I have a plan to use it and implement it well and do something with all of the great data that you’re gonna uncover. Okay, Cool. Thank you. Maria Semple. I got, uh we have to move on to another prize. But thank you so much for calling Maria. And thank you. Thanks, Maria. Thanks for all your years. Contributing 88 years. Thank you so much. Congratulations. Thank you. I want to give away another prize. We said it was like two minutes left in the hole. The hole in the whole shebang here, this’ll one is gonna be This is a book. It’s gonna be a book from the I’ll tell you what it’s going to be. Peter panepento. His book. Yes. It’s going to Peter’s book. All kinds of great information on marketing, communications and getting your message across and not using jargon. Exactly. It’s modern media relations for non-profits, which he co authored. He cooperated with the Internet car because you could be your own. Oh, I know into it. I think I might not think I’m in that book. Really? Yes, but no. I think I think I was interviewed for that book. actually now that because it’s Internet. And that was my grandmother’s name in the book. There was, Dad. Thanks, Peter. Thanks to put me in the book, So, yes, but yet because now I think these days you could be your own media mogul. You don’t have to rely on the traditional media. You can. You can be your own media mogul. Well, Barry, Steven’s gonna learn that he’s gonna get the book. Mayberry R. Stevens. He’s president of the Northeast Louisiana Arts Council. Barry Stevens with a V, not a ph. President. Northeast Louisiana Arts Council. Peter panepento book is gonna be coming to you, Barry. And, uh, we got a pretty much wrap it up. Scott Stein. So much. Thanks so much, Scott. Hey. My pleasure. Glad you guys are doing this practically in my backyard. Well, not quite. I’m in Brooklyn now, but we were in my I don’t have come to North Carolina or DC to do it right here in New York City. And the next time we all get together, which show is it gonna be? It’s gonna be the 500. Uh, summer. We’re going to get a celebrity to come in. I gotta work on that. I’m gonna find us a celebrity to come into the studio. Don’t look at me. I think should neo-sage No, you’re a celebrity. I made another kind of celebrity. I have someone in mind, I think. Claire, thank you so much for co hosting. Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me here was wonderful. Thank you so much. Happy for 50th. Thank you. Next week. Inconceivable That metric does not mean what you think it means. Plus Google analytics and Google optimize If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers Wagner c p a gps dot com weinger cps dot com By Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial Also sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn to dot CO. That’s turn hyphen, T w o dot Co and for the 450th show sponsored by Cure a coffee connecting coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest finest organic coffee beans. Cura coffee dot com Don’t you talk pretty? Thanks. Thanks, everybody. Thank you so much for being with us for the 450th show. The ninth anniversary non-profit Radio Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I say that every single week Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez who did are live tweeting today. Thank you very much, Susan. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and I say this every week. Do this Music is by Scott Stein, Brooklyn, New York, with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out on Be great! You’re listening to the talking alternate network You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time And listen for new ideas on my show Beyond potential Live life Your Way on talk radio dot N Y c on the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. 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