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Nonprofit Radio for August 23, 2021: How We Got Here

My Guest:

Robert Penna: How We Got Here

It’s the story of the unpredictable trajectory that led to today’s U.S. nonprofit sector. How did we come to be what we are? The story is told by Dr. Robert Penna, author of the book, “Braided Threads.” (Originally aired 8/3/18)




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[00:00:02.84] spk_3:

[00:01:19.44] spk_2:
and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into this phase asia if I had to swallow the idea that you missed this week’s show how we got here. It’s the story of the unpredictable trajectory that led to today’s U. S. Nonprofit sector. How did we come to be what we are? The story is told by dr robert, Penna, author of the book, braided threads This originally aired on August 3, 2018, Antonis take two truly sharing is caring, were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. And by sending blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. Let’s get started here is how we got here.

[00:02:10.34] spk_0:
I’m very glad to welcome dr robert m pena bob back to the studio. Um he’s the author of the new book braided threads, a historical overview of the american nonprofit sector. He served for five years as a consultant to charity navigator and also as an outcomes consultant to the World Scout Bureau. Indeed, his last book was the nonprofit outcomes toolbox, which we talked about on this very show. He’s presented before, nonprofit organizations and associations across the U. S. And in Canada Poland kenya Saudi Arabia and Australia bob is a native of the Bronx new york and he still sounds like it, even though he lives in Wilmington north Carolina. You’ll find him in his book at braided threads dot com. Welcome back bob

[00:02:13.96] spk_1:
Bennett, thank you very much for

[00:02:15.13] spk_0:
having come a little closer having.

[00:02:16.49] spk_1:
Thank you very much for having me. My pleasure. Thank

[00:02:25.34] spk_0:
you for coming to the studio. Um, this braided threads, overview,

[00:02:26.06] spk_1:
overview. Um,

[00:02:28.54] spk_0:
let’s see what, you know, we’re,

[00:02:30.64] spk_2:
I think that, you

[00:02:39.04] spk_0:
know, I think you make the point, there’s just not enough of an appreciation among those of us in the nonprofit sector. Well, it’s, it’s not

[00:02:39.90] spk_1:
just where we are, where

[00:02:41.08] spk_0:
we came from, where we came from.

[00:03:19.84] spk_1:
Well, I think a lack of knowledge about the sector is probably throughout the population, but for those of us that work in it. Um, most people know it’s time to think about where it’ll come from. And uh, like so much else around us, we americans are notorious for lack of a historical sense generally. Uh, we just kind of accept that, you know, okay, that mall was built for my convenience right before I was born, forgetting about what was there before being a farmer. God only knows what is the same thing with the sector. Um, people just accept it for what it is today and you know, they don’t know the real size of the real dramatic uh, economic impact. And um, I thought that that story ought to be told. It actually started, uh, what I thought was gonna be a chapter in another work and it got as big as a book. And it was to me a fascinating, fascinating story.

[00:03:33.44] spk_0:
What’s the thread that you think is most important

[00:03:46.94] spk_1:
Resilience through the history resilience. In other words, it has changed. The reason it’s called braided threads is because it is not one unbroken series of events that took place in sequential owner and all in one line is a metaphor

[00:03:54.21] spk_0:
really for the history and and the strength. I thought

[00:04:23.24] spk_1:
both of the sector, there are all these different things that were happening that when they were woven together gave us what we have today. Uh, so that’s where the, the title came from. But if you had to pick one thing, I think it’s a story of resiliency. It’s a story of before. It was a formal sector, such as it is today. It still was a movement. It was, it was a things that people were doing and it ricocheted off of Reacted to, but also impacted events for over 200 years.

[00:04:35.94] spk_0:
You’re clear to point out that it’s not a history of nonprofits. It’s how the nonprofit sector evolved because of discrete events in

[00:04:54.44] spk_1:
history. Well, that’s why it’s called an overview. In other words, I didn’t start out with day one and try to give chronologically month by month, year by year. Whatever what I did was I looked at what I thought were the most impactful things that happened during or to the history of the sector. And those are the things I wrote about

[00:04:58.44] spk_0:
now. Um, I’m not sure we’re going to go strictly chronological. We

[00:05:01.62] spk_1:
made the book isn’t actually strictly chronological. They’re places where I had to double

[00:05:07.24] spk_0:
back. Um, now, when you were on last time we talked about Queen

[00:05:09.65] spk_1:
Elizabeth, important Elizabeth at first, but I know martin

[00:05:11.92] spk_0:
Luther uh, piques your

[00:05:13.96] spk_1:
interest. I thought

[00:05:15.30] spk_0:
pre he’s pre

[00:05:57.04] spk_1:
by about 60. His shame by about 16 years. I particularly thought it was interesting because if you look at the sector today is largely secular humanist. Um, not that there aren’t religious or religiously affiliated organizations in it, but it is not a religious sector. I mean, generally speaking, not that there aren’t religious organizations and affiliations, but it is a very humanistic secular in some cases, you might say liberal, I don’t know, uh movement and yet its roots were distinctly religious. So how did that break happen? Why did that break happened? Where did and personally, I traced it back to martin Luther and the reformation.

[00:06:00.94] spk_0:
So, you are. Well,

[00:07:07.54] spk_1:
because up until then, I mean, again, and this is not to be uh focused on just one, you know, ethnicity or religious tradition. This is certainly not to leave anybody else out. But the truth of the matter is that europe was catholic ever since, you know, Constantine made it the Catholicism Christianity, the official uh Religion of the Empire in 3 30, 80 europe was catholic. And then comes along martin Luther and he initiates along with a few other people with the reformation. And his biggest point was that unlike where the catholic church said it was faith and good works that got you into heaven, martin Luther with Sola fida faith alone and split them and he said you can do all the good works you want, they’re not going to get you into heaven. Faith is and he divided it at that point and that crack, that infant Ismael airline crack got wider and wider and wider and wider. People began to realize over time maybe they never even articulated it. It became a sense that there were certain things you do because they’re right, not because it’s an extra two points to get into heaven. This tradition had not existed there to four and that’s why I peg one of the 1st, 1st steps towards what we have today and particularly the United States with martin Luther

[00:07:15.18] spk_0:
now, uh huh and then Queen Elizabeth.

[00:07:17.86] spk_1:
Queen Elizabeth

[00:07:36.94] spk_0:
Was important. Yes. Now if listeners want to go back, you can go back to the June 2016 show, we talked for about a half an hour. Not all about Queen Elizabeth, but we talked a fair amount about her more than we’re going through today, but you could go to 20 martignetti dot com search bob’s last name pena P E N N A. And the june 2016 show last time he was on uh well well appear to

[00:08:23.84] spk_1:
You. Okay, please very quickly. Um Queen Elizabeth. We got time. Okay, Queen Elizabeth in 1601 uh issued something that was called a statute of charitable uses. And what she did was um and that’s not to say this had never happened before, but she codified with the idea that things that were of civic and civil benefit could be appropriate targets of charitable givings. What’s things founding of funding of schools, the funding of scholars, the building of bridges, the building of causeways, the ransoming of prisoners. All of these things were in this list. So what was she doing there? She was a further secularizing charity, but be she was putting into the charitable pot things that they’re 24 had not been considered charity charity, but charity was always personal to help poor. Now she’s moving far away from help the poor bridges, Bridges causes

[00:08:37.51] spk_0:
and ransoming

[00:09:02.24] spk_1:
hostages or also uh putting together a sort of a charitable pot for the dowry for poor maidens. Okay. Um there was things that today you might call you the social engineering or what what not. But the point is it was no longer the idea that charity always was always had to be about helping the poor. So first martin Luther breaks off the idea of These good deeds, having nothing to do with getting you into heaven. And then she comes along 60 years later and says on top of that charitable activity, things that are good for the community and not necessarily what was thought of his personal charity, putting the coin in the Beggar’s hand.

[00:09:19.44] spk_0:
Beyond martin Luther uh religion, the evolution

[00:09:23.28] spk_1:
of religion. I think it has been important, tremendous particularly the United States. We’re

[00:09:27.34] spk_0:
probably going to hit religion a bunch of times but give us an overview of why, why you say tremendous,

[00:10:44.44] spk_1:
Well I would say two reasons. First off because of the impact of the puritans. Um if you wouldn’t mind me mentioning another author, Colin Woodward’s book, american Nations, he makes what’s his name, Colin Woodard? American nations. He’s in your forward or your introductions in the introduction and he makes the point that they were founding cultures here in the United States and one of these founding cultures he calls yankee dumb basically the puritan culture. And uh the thing of it is that that had a tremendous impact because their worldview, they were the only ones coming here amongst the settlers, amongst the french, the spanish the Swedes, Everyone else who came here who came with this idea of creating a better society. We’ve all heard that term, the city on the hill, john Winthrop in their Mayflower compact was writing this down and was saying that amongst the things we’re going to do is every person has to be responsible for every other person built into the D. N. A. Of that colony. And what it became eventually in terms of one of the privacy dominant cultures in the United States was this concept that we have a responsibility, a civic civil human responsibility for helping each other. We’re going to come back

[00:10:47.14] spk_0:
to Winthrop, one of the new England puritans.

[00:11:53.74] spk_2:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. The relationships. They have the relationships with the well known outlets nationwide to get you attention to get you coverage when you deserve to be heard when you need to be heard when there’s something in the news that you can comment on and that you want to be heard on. Or maybe it’s not something news like news hook like but maybe it’s a simple op ed or blog post or getting to podcasts. Turn to has the relationships. So if it’s cutting edge like timeliness or it’s more evergreen. They have the relationships to get you covered to get you heard because your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. Now back to how we got here.

[00:12:08.84] spk_0:
So let’s jump ahead. We might come back. Like I said, we may not chronological, but you mentioned Winthrop New England puritan. The new England puritans were different than in terms of their their uh concept of charity. Then the southern,

[00:13:23.54] spk_1:
it was also a pioneer was also what it had a lot to do with was the way they set their society up. If you think of the south. Um the first off there was the tidewater south, the Maryland Virginia. Uh northern north Carolina. That was one society. But then there was what we came to know for better, ill as the south. Eventually the confederacy, etcetera that all started in south Carolina. It was a plantation. Both of these were actually plantation societies and these plantations were largely self sufficient. So amongst the things they didn’t do, they didn’t worry about having a public school because the rich took care of their own Children. They had tutors or perhaps they sent the Children away someplace. But they didn’t worry about public schools didn’t matter. And the poor didn’t need education, neither white nor black. It didn’t matter. So all of the things that we take now as thinking of their earmarks of society, their earmarks of civilization, They didn’t exist down there. Conversely, the first things you did in New England was you, where’s the village green? The church is going to be at one end congregationalist of course. Uh, the school is going to be at the other end. Everybody supported it through their taxes. So right there you had a division. This then later was reflected in terms of things like the pieces of civil society that you and I would consider to be a charitable efforts. They didn’t exist in the south

[00:13:34.44] spk_0:
since religion is a

[00:13:35.52] spk_1:
threat that it’s

[00:13:36.80] spk_0:
very important. The congregationalists in that time. They were, they were the statement that the state religion

[00:13:43.38] spk_1:
in massachusetts.

[00:13:44.46] spk_0:
Oh, just in massachusetts

[00:13:51.84] spk_1:
in massachusetts, Rhode island Connecticut there as you went for the south. It became the anglicans. In fact, the anglicans were a minority in massachusetts. And what became of, you don’t, you don’t see a pilgrim church or puritan church anymore. They became the congregationalists

[00:14:03.14] spk_0:
which were supported by uh taxes, taxes,

[00:14:05.99] spk_1:
taxes, they all work. So,

[00:14:07.16] spk_0:
I mean, a complete, uh, you know, this is obviously uh all pre revolution, pre pre constitution, but in that, in that day we had state religions.

[00:14:16.44] spk_1:
Yes, yes,

[00:14:17.12] spk_0:
in every every colony, some of the Northern state, every

[00:15:14.14] spk_1:
colony, okay, could not, you know, including eventually, you know, as things got more settled down south. The Anglicans, the angle of the Church of England was the state church. So, for example, in Virginia had to de institutionalized the anglican church. So taxes wouldn’t go to it anymore. But it did have this thread, tony of uh of how religion impacted it. It goes through this whole story because when the minister is no longer were part of the government, so to speak, they had to find a new role. You had other sects that came along after the second great awakening amongst them, the Baptists. Methodists, they were incredibly influential because they had they didn’t have all the formal theology that others had. It was, that’s why you would hear a baptist preacher referred to as brother Parsons or something, because they weren’t ordained ministers in many cases and because of that lack of formality, number one. um they could, they didn’t church necessarily, they could preach under a tree, but secondly, they also had a much more accessible kind of idea uh the way they approached it and a lot of what we see today came from specifically the baptist evangelicals and the Methodists like

[00:15:31.34] spk_0:
what about some of these traditions as well?

[00:15:38.24] spk_1:
For example, the 1st 1st nationwide survived the first nationwide uh charities you want to call were bible and tract associations and they were all run by, funded by and pushed by these southern uh evangelicals, Methodists and Baptists and that became like the first nationwide charities. Uh, the precursors of all the big ones, you know, today, they were the first ones who were like coast to coast.

[00:15:57.84] spk_0:
What else is there? Another tradition that you can,

[00:16:46.14] spk_1:
you can, I think, I think another tradition I would connect is uh the activism of many, many groups. So for example, going back to the abolition of slavery, which of course started of all places in boston, boston was the home of the abolitionist movement and a lot of the people up there were religiously affiliated. But it is also true that during Reconstruction and wanted a lot of the quote charitable work that was done down there amongst the Freeman, amongst the freed slaves, etcetera, was done by northern Methodists and northern Baptists. So this threat, this involvement, but they weren’t doing it necessarily for the, for the same reasons that going back to, you know, the 14 hundreds, the catholic slash christians were giving money to the poor that was trying to buy their way into heaven. Slowly, completely different. This

[00:16:50.36] spk_0:
was this was a contribution to society. Exactly.

[00:16:59.84] spk_1:
It was, it was like a centering the nation beyond was a secular act being done by people who who belonged to uh a particular denomination in this case. It’s interesting to see the the degree of do get think back, you know, go back to the anti war movement during the sixties, how many of those people marching? They were protestant ministers, many of them, many of them were Methodists and Baptists. This strain never went away.

[00:17:30.94] spk_0:
What was, I’m jumping way ahead now, we’ll come back to the constitution and uh separation of church and state, but um ancient greek uh Greece Rome, Egypt. What was, what was the conception

[00:17:34.92] spk_1:
of charity then? Well, Egypt does

[00:17:37.14] spk_0:
vary by empire

[00:18:06.24] spk_1:
generally speaking. I mean, even in Egypt, there are, there are higher, horrible effects have been found and have been translated that roughly say that, you know, your place in the afterlife, depending upon how you treated people in this life. So you might say there was that kind of strain of charity in Greece and Rome charity was much more uh what um Queen Elizabeth did. In other words, the idea was particularly in Rome if you want to get ahead and you wanted to be noticed. So let’s say you were in the army and you want to move into politics, you were high up in the army, you would spend stuff, you would spend money on things that the public could enjoy. Like you would build a public bath or perhaps you would pay for a temple to Athena or some small thing of this nature. But the idea was the charity in those days, did the poor didn’t count the poor didn’t exist on anybody’s radar screen. You have a totally different perspective of human nature, human value. And it was for

[00:18:29.70] spk_0:
your own it was very good

[00:18:32.94] spk_1:
for your own good. Every wrong career, right, career development, career development. But the whole idea of what you

[00:18:38.54] spk_0:
Just can spend $400 to go to a conference. Uh, then I would have had to build a temple to Athena

[00:18:41.11] spk_1:
or you could today you could make a big donation to the hospital and I put a plaque on the wall with your name. This is tony-martignetti wink. I’d rather build a temple. But

[00:18:59.64] spk_0:
um, okay, that’s interesting. All right, thank you. So, so let’s go. All right. So now we have uh, our constitution, our bill of Rights, the First Amendment, um, obviously religion, no, no state religion and and separation of church and state. So how did these factor into

[00:20:39.54] spk_1:
these? Factored industry in three different ways. Number one, part of those, The First Amendment is the right of assembly, um, which the british kept an eye on when they, when they were in charge. Well now you could formally have, you could have group meetings, you could organize, you need to worry about perhaps the king’s soldiers would come and say break this up while you six people gathering here. One of the things that people did was they formed organizations de Toqueville Uh wrote back in 1830 something when he wrote his famous uh his famous review of of America based upon his tour that Americans were already organizing for virtually everything you name, the thought, music, culture, politics, something that they thought would be americans were organizing. He has, he has a comment that says, Uh where in England you will find a personal great wealth or prominence heading up an effort or where in France you will find the government doing that in America. You virtually always find it being done by a citizens organization interesting. So this has been a toqueville was here in like the early 21st, 20 years or so of American independence. I mean, I believe he wrote democracy in America somewhere around 1834. Um, and these are already his reflections by 1820, the New England area already had over 2000 of these citizen voluntary organizations. They were the precursors of today’s nonprofits. Yeah.

[00:20:40.54] spk_0:
And how are they structured? What do we know about their, their

[00:21:00.84] spk_1:
organs were structured like they were structured sort of, as you know, an association, they had by laws, they had officers, what they didn’t have was either illegal corporate identity, nor did they have uh any sort of fiscal power. Because the laws that created what we call today, a corporation? Yeah. Didn’t exist back then.

[00:21:06.64] spk_0:
All right, so we’re in the like early to mid 1800s. Are they are they doing their own independent fundraising?

[00:24:28.64] spk_1:
Yes, they were. Well, they were doing yes, they were doing when we would they called us? They would call it a subscription. They would call it a subscription. They put out a subscription player, subscription request, and it was today’s fundraising, but they called it a subscription. But the key things in those days were threefold. Number one. Uh they weren’t incorporated, so they didn’t have a legal standing identity, such as people don’t like about Citizens United. That whole idea that it didn’t exist, secondly, they did not have any uh separate fiscal ability to buy to sell to. They didn’t. And the third thing was that the officers or whoever was there, the officers were the identity. So if mrs smith or jones quit and or died very often the operation would fall apart because there’s no way to keep it going. It was very, very crucial for them to eventually get this right to uh to uh incorporate. And one of the most key points about this was that they eventually incorporated under the state laws, the laws of their home states. Now, who then control them? Did the state legislature because it charted them or allow them to incorporate control them or were they independent? And there was a crucial um, a crucial court case involving Dartmouth University whereby the courts found that even if public money went to these entities and even if in fact these public entities, these entities were incorporated under state law. Legislature couldn’t touch them. The Legislature could not give the money, but the Legislature could not tell them in this case. Specifically Dartmouth University what to do That. Independence was crucial because it allowed these organizations to in many, many, many cases proceed government in various efforts. Whether it was schools for the Children of freed former slaves, Whether it was schools for uh, today you called handicapped the death the blind. Uh They would very often create certain they would call them asylums. Today, you might call them orphanages for Children. There was one in new york city that was specifically for the, shall we say, uh Children of prostitutes who might have been called bastards back then or might be called illegitimate. Nobody. Where did these kids go? What did you do with them? And there were, there was a privately funded asylum was created just for those people. Just those Children for the poor as well. Very old houses. Well, arms houses. They, yes, very, very largely funded by these private entities. But very often, particularly in new york city new york city under Mayor de witt clinton high School in Brooklyn and the Bronx. Yes, right. He, he became, he was governor at one point. Um, he was not only when he was mayor, he was also head of one of the largest charitable efforts in the, in the city and was even back then. We’re talking early immigrants around, I’m guessing here trying to remember 18 20 something like that. I don’t remember the executives of his, uh, his term of office, but the city was already paying well. Today you would call a nonprofit to run the, run the schools for the poor. So in new york state, particularly this tradition of public money going to a not what we today would call a nonprofit to provide a Legislatively desirable and socially desirable end. Think about it Tony, this is 2018, you’re almost 200 years later, we’re still doing the same thing. Yeah,

[00:24:47.44] spk_0:
Yeah. I love that around this period. Let’s take mid 1800s. So what, what’s happening in the, in the rest of the country? Well,

[00:26:13.94] spk_1:
the slavery slavery about it? Well, slavery and civil war are percolating and a tremendous number of, of um Efforts, private government effort, rather private citizen efforts, uh, were trying to have the slave trade stopped because the constitution originally said that the government could not do anything even in the slave trade, not slavery, but the trade for 20 years. So this effort was going on for a long time and it was all being done by, by citizens in 99% of them up north. Um, a lot of them either spurred by or uh inspired by the culture of Yankee dim which was spreading across the country at that point. I mean think about it through from the mohawk valley to the Ohio valley, we spread from east to west and this culture came with us. And uh, the number of people who felt that this was a scar on our national character uh, increased and um, I mean, you’ve heard, you know the Missouri compromise, bleeding Kansas, we all know what all the things that led up to the civil war, but what was while that was going on, there was this tremendous effort to, among other things, abolished slavery, but at the same time penal reform, um, reform to end uh, what’s the biggest show in new york Hamilton? Right, Hamilton and burr dueling outlaw dueling. Um, all season. These

[00:26:17.06] spk_0:
are, these are efforts by the, by their non profit or

[00:26:21.37] spk_1:
These organs by these organizations. Okay, now the term non profit didn’t come along until 1950. Yeah, we’re

[00:26:26.62] spk_0:
gonna get the right, we’ll get to the tax exemption. Okay, but by the penal reform, what else, what else can you think of other examples what they were doing around this time. It was very,

[00:27:10.64] spk_1:
very interesting amongst these subscriptions today. You know, there there’s everybody is familiar with the term five oh one C three. Well the three denotes one level of five oh one C. There are actually 29 of them. Well, one of them. One of the earliest was what was called mutual society sort of mutual aid or mutual. Today there are mutual insurance companies which are non profit They started back then. The idea is you would again have a subscription and if a fire hit your house, this would pay money to you to get you back on your feet. This was another my nonprofit effort that didn’t exist. Benjamin for

[00:27:11.57] spk_0:
every year where I guess I remember Benjamin franklin, but every year I get my subscribers check from us, a right, a mutual mutual benefit uh insurance insurance company and now and bank. Ben

[00:27:53.04] spk_1:
Franklin. Ben franklin uh, is credited with founding amongst the first uh, non profit things in the United States. The Volunteer Fire corps in philadelphia, one of the first libraries, uh, the Juno Society. These were all today you’d call them nonprofit effort efforts uh, that he founded uh, in philadelphia before the revolution. So again, this was, but interestingly enough, not down south. Yeah, not down south. Once you started to get towards around the north Carolina border, you didn’t see it because of the plantation economy because of the culture. They didn’t

[00:27:56.42] spk_0:
have a civic, there wasn’t a civic, the civic sense. We have community sense. There was this my plantation, right? We take care of everything

[00:28:15.54] spk_1:
here. This is why two of the most revolutionary things that happened down there was thomas. Jefferson’s founding of the University of Virginia North Carolina’s founding one of the first state universities in the country because that was unheard of down there. It was just unheard of. So all of these efforts, as I say, we’re primarily northern.

[00:28:22.74] spk_0:
We have about a minute before the break. Um, the tax exemption, I feel like this is a good time. When did that, when did that?

[00:28:26.45] spk_1:
Uh taxes first? Tax exemption started way way way back because you have to ask about which taxes. So it’s probably gonna be more than it wasn’t

[00:28:33.99] spk_0:
religion. Okay. Wasn’t religion the religion

[00:28:39.54] spk_1:
1st Exemption. Religion and can also speak schools and things and things of that nature. So go back to that. Alright.

[00:28:45.74] spk_0:
It broadened but it started with, okay, so we teased it together

[00:28:46.94] spk_1:
and you always do,

[00:28:48.28] spk_0:
thank you very much. Always tease.

[00:31:12.84] spk_2:
It’s time for Tony’s take two truly sharing is caring who can you share. non profit radio with. I’ve been providing suggestions through the weeks. How about the new folks to nonprofits, the newbies there? Like babes in the woods, they’re, they’re jumping to, to avoid the obstacles there. Following the immediate direction. They’re just trying to get from like tree to tree to move forward. The trees are the, the metaphorical trees are the tasks that they’re given either by your office or somebody, you know who they work for, but they don’t see the big forest, they don’t, they can’t take the higher level view. They don’t know where they fit in overall. They’re just produce these labels. Let’s get this mailing uh, do this, query uh, volunteered to do this. Volunteer activity beep boop. But what’s the bigger picture? It will be elucidated, they will get illuminated, they will find their way through the from tree to tree because they’ll see the entire forest through nonprofit. radio There’s the, there’s the, I don’t know what this but the new folks, the new folks, they need some help. Right? Really? How do they fit in their, their, the, the development assistance, the Development associates. Maybe you were there have have empathy for them or maybe you weren’t, maybe you got right in at the director level or the, the Associate VP level or the VP level or have empathy for them. Anyway, non profit radio can help the new movies because we’ve got to bring them along. Right. We’ve had guests talk about this, we all know this, we have to bring them along, get them started on the right path through the forest. non profit radio if you can share. non profit radio with somebody new to nonprofits, it’s going to help them and it will help me. And I say thank you That is Tony’s take two. Now back to how we got here,

[00:31:49.24] spk_0:
bob pen is with me. His new book is braided threads, a historical overview of the american nonprofit sector, just get the book because you know, we can’t do it. Justice. Of course you’re interested in how are sector, our community evolved to what it is now. Um get the book. You know, we’re hitting some threads, some braided threads if you will. But you want the full story. You know, even, you know, bob mentioned something. I was like, oh yeah, the Dartmouth case, you know, I can’t remember at all. Um, just by the thing for Pete’s sake. All right. Um, where were we see now? I’ve ranted about bees and sunshine and all this live love. Where were we?

[00:32:06.24] spk_1:
Well, you well, you also screwed up the whole thing about baseball, but that’s another thing. Well, you have baseball doesn’t have touchdowns. But anyway, that’s different. We’re talking about, we’re talking about taxes and tax exemption and that’s what you would ask about.

[00:32:08.82] spk_0:
Thank you. So, it started religion was the first one. What period are we talking about now? We’re

[00:33:24.74] spk_1:
Going back to probably the 1600s. And that’s the point of the matter is we ask what taxes. Alright, Alright. Federal government levied very very few taxes before that. The state’s levied. Not that many taxes? Most taxes were on property and very early on churches were exempted from paying those taxes. Uh Now it wasn’t just the church building, it also became the the parsonage where the minister lived. Uh then if there was another building library perhaps, then schools obviously we’re not text, be they private or be they public. Clearly, a public government is going to tax itself. So public institutions like a public school would never we’re never uh text, but the idea was that the exemption list grew bigger and bigger. New york state was obviously this was going on in all states. I happened to have a quite an extensive accounting in the book of how the new york state list just kept getting broader and broader and broader and broader. Uh At one point, it was interesting because the law was changed to allow organizations that included in their charter or their mission, the uh the enhancement of the minds of young people or something. That’s how the why got in because the why had tried to get a tax exemption had gone to court. They’ve been turned down, they had to pay the tax bill. But everybody thought gee the why should be in in this. So why is very

[00:33:42.12] spk_0:
interesting to uh in the world

[00:33:43.92] spk_1:
wars? Yeah, well, that’s right in the book, right, that they were also involved. Yeah, this is the book. I know, yeah. But what I’m saying is that the why was not really was was not mentioned organizations like why now you mention New

[00:34:01.84] spk_0:
york State. Yes. Um I love this. Uh one thing I want to read this from 17 99 uh New york state. You you cite new york state has sort of Representative

[00:34:06.11] spk_1:
represent what was happening around there were very issues but it’s very representative. This

[00:34:33.84] spk_0:
Is an act for the assessment and collection of taxes. New York State 1799 Excerpt. I won’t read the whole thing. Of course, no house or land belonging to any church or place of public worship or any personal property belonging to any ordained Minister of the Gospel, nor any college or incorporated academy nor any schoolhouse, courthouse, jail, arms house or property belonging to any incorporated library shall be taxed by virtue of

[00:36:29.73] spk_1:
This act. Right. And that that list just kept going and as I said at one they amended it to include, and I forget the specific wording was something about the betterment of the minds of young men and women because there was the Y. M. C. A. And the Y. W. C. Young young men and young women’s christian association so that the law was changed and basically what the courts said was that these operations were doing good. They were doing good things and were beneficial to society and therefore society. Uh It was in society’s interest, but also as just a smart thing to do. We are going to do our bit by supporting them to the extent that we do so by alleviating them from the tax burden. They were still not called non profits because that concept him way later. Um But these organizations, these voluntary and for a long time it was called the voluntary sector. Uh, these are, yes, that was the name of uh, these organizations increasingly became uh tax free, what we know today as the people call them non profits. I’ll do this relatively quickly. Um, one of the last revenue acts of the 1800s uh included this idea that these kinds of organizations could be, should be exempted from federal taxes. That particular revenue act was found unconstitutional. However, when things started to fall into place and you remember, it was the 16th amendment that made the income tax legal in the United States. When that happened, the recognition that these organizations should be exempt was codified and it had to be three things. Number one, it had to be incorporated as a non profit. What does that mean? Does it mean they can’t make profit They can’t make money. Know what it means. Is that what any excess extra? It has to go back in? Well, it has to go back in. They cannot.

[00:36:31.43] spk_0:
This was contemporaneous with the 16th Amendment

[00:37:26.33] spk_1:
was well, shortly following that. But what does the nonprofit means? That rather mean? Doesn’t mean it can’t make money? No, that doesn’t, that’s not what it means, what it means. It can’t take that profit and distributed to partners distributed to stockholders distribute. It has to go back into the pot. That’s number one. The second thing is that no, none of its activities can make money for any of the officers. Right? And the third of the third idea uh is that the, well the roles and the idea is a nonprofit non distribute orI and doing some sort of civic good and so very often it was charitable and there was a charitable educational and the list got you know bigger now family really machinery. I like that word to me sir. That’s what they believe, believe that is maybe you’re right, maybe you’re right. I remember I come from the Bronx so I’m different pronunciation. Um

[00:37:35.13] spk_0:
well you were wrong about you around baseball

[00:38:21.32] spk_1:
Too. So our president tax liabilities president tax code comes from 1954. That was the first place where they laid out what we have today, this 501C category. And where the general exemption from. Originally the idea was that if these organizations made money they didn’t have to pay a corporate income tax on it. Then it became not legally but in terms of practice that they are basically free from almost all taxes other than things like excise taxes are taxes on gasoline or something that you pay as part of a bill, which is why the local men’s association will go to a restaurant and they’ll have the banquet and they give the the the owner, here’s my tax free by tax free number and they won’t have to pay sales tax on the restaurant. Yeah. Okay. So that’s where all that came from. But it was in terms of its codification. Although the roots go back to the 1600s codification goes back to 1954.

[00:38:31.12] spk_0:
Okay. Is that the 16th amendment? Was that

[00:38:33.10] spk_1:
The 16th Amendment was 1913? That’s what allowed the income permitted

[00:38:44.42] spk_0:
an income federal income tax. Okay, Okay. Um let’s uh were World War One. We saw an expansion. Uh

[00:38:46.74] spk_1:
yes, Yes.

[00:38:49.32] spk_0:

[00:39:20.72] spk_1:
Why? Because really? Well, because there was no functional way for the government to step in. One of the more fascinating things about it, was that the you meant we were talking about the why the why was the first organization to do what today? You think in terms like the Red Cross, you know, POW POW camps, uh, you’re checking on status bringing, you know, prisoners. Nobody did that government. Sure as heck did neither the union or the confederate government. It was the why the YMCA that first started this bringing this service to both sides to the confederates and northern. So they were they were in uh in confederate POW camps, ministering, so to speak to union prisoners and vice versa. You

[00:39:31.28] spk_0:
say that the White was the first large scale service

[00:39:41.52] spk_1:
corps, really, you could say that you can’t say that the other. So comes along World War One. Um there was a need for this, but nobody else to do it.

[00:40:33.81] spk_2:
It’s time for a break send in blue, It’s the all in one digital marketing platform with the tools that help you build end to end digital campaigns that are professional, affordable, organized and keep you organized digital campaign marketing. Most software designed for big companies, you know this and has the enterprise level price tag, send in blue is priced for nonprofits. It’s an easy to use marketing platform that walks you through the steps of building a digital campaign. If you want to try it out and get a free month and a 300,000 emails hit the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for how we got here.

[00:40:37.01] spk_0:
Why the why it was the Y. M. C. A. Initially or was it why it was there? Why?

[00:40:41.96] spk_1:
No. Well there’s two Y. M. C. A young men’s christian association and the young women’s, which came first who I am.

[00:40:49.13] spk_0:
Okay, so first large scale service corps. And

[00:43:29.00] spk_1:
well what happened was this, in other words, when World War One started? And uh, there was a need, when the americans got involved, when there was a need uh, to again uh brain services to this army that was being raised, whether it was, you know, outside of Fort Dix or whether it was, you know, eventually when the A. F. Got across the to the other side across the pond, expeditionary forces, right? American expeditionary force? Uh, the whole idea was somebody had to do the same sort of thing. And why was the first one to step in the Red Cross eventually joined the Salvation Army eventually joined. But all of this was being done privately. Meantime, both prior to America’s entry into the war and after it was a tremendous amount of uh refugee, if you will victims victims relief. I mean, you know, war is terrible whatever word is and there’s always collateral damage. The people who were displaced the homes that are destroyed. Well during war governments don’t stop to worry about taking care of that. They move on, they want to have a war to try to win. So who took care of those people? The refugee problem was tremendous. Belgium became one of the worst sites of it because when the Germans invaded Belgium, the al I said well you have to feed the Belgians because most of the belgians of food came from outside, German said no we’re not gonna be bothered doing that. We’re feeding our troops. You want to give them food, you give them food. Well, it was a relief effort that began in the United States that started working to bring food to Belgium. But it was not government, it was all private. It was all voluntary. It was all what you today would call non profit before our and there’s actually pictures, one of the few pictures that are in the book before the war, before the U. S. Got involved in the war when we were supposed to be officially neutral. Yes, there were organizations raising money for the poor and the suffering and the widows in Belgium and France. And but they were also organizations doing the same thing directing money to the german empire. The Austria Hungarian Empire in Turkey because we were officially neutral. So there are actually a couple of pictures in the book. I would appreciate it more pictures by the way I like, well I’m sorry, next next book of more pictures. But the whole idea was this entire effort was being done privately after the war, massive relief effort run by Herbert Hoover most of it. Not all of it at that point the U. S. Government was committing money but A great deal of it. You know, I don’t know proportion 60% maybe uh was all private.

[00:43:30.25] spk_0:
Today’s USO was formed by a collection of a bunch of the collaboration of a bunch of the organizations. You mentioned the Y. M. Y. W. C. A. Regular.

[00:43:38.50] spk_1:

[00:43:40.28] spk_0:
that’s today’s United Service

[00:45:29.09] spk_1:
organization. Right? And that’s where that’s where it was a coalition that was found was one of the first ever like that. One of the first ever efforts. I mean there are all sorts of things that happened back then that we we today for example, you’ve heard of United Way. Everybody knows United Way. You know where United what came from? I dont Community Chest Community Chest and you know today, most people in the Community chest is a sort of a space in the car. I’m a reporter. Okay. Community chest was local fundraising specifically for disaster, personal tragedy, private relief. So if you lost your job or the factory burned down and five people lost their job. Community chest was, was, was the entity in each individual community that would they would go to for relief. I mean, maybe if they belong to a particular denomination and the church might help them out or as well or you know, temple or you know, there’s a lot of that, I mean both and there’s a whole section in there on both the jewish and catholic specific uh, contributions to what we know today as the american nonprofit sector. That, that’s interesting reading on, on its own, but this isn’t to say the churches were involved, but every community, there was no public relief, there was no public welfare and so if dad died or fell off the roof and broke his leg and couldn’t work, there was no unemployment insurance, there was no workers comp people very often they went to Community Chest. What wound up happening was, uh, one of the transformative events was what we might call a cooperative fundraising. If everybody fun fund rose for fundraising, fundraising, whatever the the past tense that is by themselves, you want with competing appeals and they’re banging into each other. Well, uh, it actually started to believe it was in Cleveland was one of the first ones. Uh, I know there was one in Denver, there was one in uh, in uh Detroit, There was one, I believe it was Cleveland. Was

[00:45:48.69] spk_0:
this around the, was this also the hoover administration were now profit complained were basically testified before Congress were basically running over each other, stepping over each other, trying to, trying to help. Oh yeah. Also also was that the Great Depression or

[00:46:34.48] spk_1:
no? Yes, yes and no. You know, there was what you’re talking about was World War Two, uh, stepping on each other and tripling over. That was World War Two. No, what happened was when the, when the Depression hit, um, sort of the thought was that, uh, this community chest would step up and community chest tried, they would have instead of one annual drive, they were having to annual drives. They tried three. But the problem, as we all know, was much bigger than anybody could have predicted foreseen. And their efforts were just not up to the fact that the entire economy crashed, which is why government had to get in that. It was obviously FDR FDR appointed Harry Hopkins to run the relief effort. Harry Hopkins thought that it really should be local government that was doing this. Local governments sitting off on the side. They’re very happy not to be involved. So what Harry Hopkins did was, he said, okay, we’re gonna do this and it’s going to be federal money, but none of the money can go to what today would call non profits because they got completely cut out.

[00:46:52.78] spk_0:
That was not, that was not to punish phenomenon that was to encourage, that was to

[00:46:57.73] spk_1:
force the states unwilling

[00:46:59.40] spk_0:
states and states that had not taken on public welfare right to do it. Or we’re doing give the money to the state. But we, the federal money won’t go to these community chest. Exactly right. They’re trying to force the hand unwilling recalcitrant

[00:48:06.37] spk_1:
states and localities and localities. But, but yes, that’s and that was Hopkins idea of course. Now what did the nonprofits do? I mean this kind of left them out in the cold. Now, you also have to realize that at this point we were talking about community chest, but this was one, this is not to say that the arts efforts weren’t going on and people weren’t founding zoos and botanical gardens. And a lot of this was originally founded by private garden clubs or a zoological society. But the nation was in crisis and relief was always from the charitable sector, which is why it was called the show. And now they couldn’t do it anymore because it was too big a job and be the federal money couldn’t go to them had, you know, Harry Hopkins said no. So they, we invent themselves. I mean, I said the US made early on what was the theme I keep saying resiliency. And one of the things that one of the earliest tests of this resiliency was after the depression because basically the Fed said you can’t have anybody, you know, more money for you. So,

[00:48:15.77] spk_0:
um, say a little about the, uh, the jewish contribution to what we

[00:49:54.47] spk_1:
Know. I think this is utterly fascinating. There’s a book, believe it guys named wrote it was cale calendar. I don’t know how Taylor County, it’s called the gifts of the Jews. The gift of the Jews book is probably 20 years old at this point. But he makes the point that one of the biggest contributions that the jewish culture, the jewish religion made to us here in the United States was in fact cultural, cultural. It had to do with how human beings were viewed when the jewish immigration here started in large. Think about where these people come from, they were either, you know, they were persecuted in czarist Russia. They were persecuted in Poland, which was part of czarist Russia. They were kicked out of spain. I mean, you know, 1000 years of this, they had an outsider perspective, nobody else had and they brought that here with them and when they got involved in charity and what they were the ones they, they were the biggest analyze of the black civil rights movement because their idea that nobody should be an outsider was central to them. And they brought that to that. You think about today’s nonprofit space, We are concerned about the handicapped were concerned about all sorts of groups that you might call marginalized with semi marginalized and this was antithetical to the jewish world view. So to me, whereas a lot of these other charities were taking care of their own. So for example, there was the irish working in such and such, but you have to be irish. The jews said no inclusive, inclusive.

[00:49:56.57] spk_0:
Excellent. Thank you. The jewish

[00:50:27.16] spk_1:
tradition. I just, I cannot emphasize that enough because I mean truly today, if you look at at the, the whole core of the nonprofit mission, it is inclusivity and I personally feel that without the incredible jewish influence that particularly here in new york and new york became kind of like one of those centers of the nonprofit world. It still is. I cannot emphasize enough how strongly I believe that that, that world view, yeah, that threat, um, truly truly help the imprint. Uh, what we have today.

[00:50:33.96] spk_0:
You got to get the book because there’s some things were not going to be a great depression. Uh, Kennedy’s new frontier. And then uh, johnson, johnson and johnson’s war against four. War on poverty.

[00:50:46.44] spk_1:
We have about 3, 4 minutes. Uh,

[00:50:48.70] spk_0:
five. I want to talk about the future too.

[00:51:41.86] spk_1:
Okay. But then I’ll do very quick. Let me just do johnson All right, johnson set us on the road that we’re on the war on poverty, Right. War right. Great society, war on poverty. We are today farther down that road and that road is being fancied up there are, you know, there are curbs where maybe they didn’t used to be curbs, there’s a newer pavement, nicer pavement and original, but it’s the exact same road. What johnson did was, he said, we’re going to take federal money and we’re going to change poverty, We’re going to eradicate whatever his goal was. But it wound up that it wasn’t the government that was doing it. It was government money going to community action agencies and To nonprofits. Now we don’t time now to go to talk about what happened to non profits during the 50s between World War II and we, you know, to get the book, just get the book as well. I have the book. Oh, you mean that they should be talking to

[00:51:42.99] spk_0:
The 13,013,000 who are joining this

[00:52:29.55] spk_1:
condition, They should get, I should hope to God you have a copy of that, That’s a different story. But the whole point was that it was hard to get for me to get one LBJ LBJ set us on the road that we’re on. We’re on now. And my feet feeling and maybe there are people in the sector would argue, uh, you know, this is my theory is that basically things have not really changed in direction, They’ve changed in degree. Now, the nonprofit sector is not just the partner of government, there’s, it’s dependent upon the government. I mean, look what happened to the sector, during the depression. It wasn’t that individuals stopped giving individuals, even during the worst of the great recession, we’re giving corporate was down. The corporate is not that big. It was government money. The sector today is very, very reliant on. So again, johnson set us on the road that we’re on now and we are just farther down and very much deeper into it.

[00:52:46.75] spk_0:
I want to look, don’t look, don’t look forward. You, you cite generational change and technology change as our biggest, uh, opportunities, opportunities and

[00:53:07.95] spk_1:
challenges. I think, I think two of the two of the three biggest things, because we end the book on what’s happening in the future. That’s the last, the last Third or 25% of the book. I think that the three biggest things that are impacting the sector and sectors largely unaware of it is number one of the growth. We are adding 50,000 a year, Uh, in 1990, there were a couple of 100,000 nonprofits in the United States today. There’s, there’s a startling

[00:53:13.53] spk_0:
Chart in the book, one of the pictures of the picture of

[00:54:35.94] spk_1:
the chart I drew it myself dramatic. Um, now there’s over 1.76 million. Actually, nobody as, as, uh, Lester Solomon, who is one of the stages of the sector says nobody really knows how many there are. And it’s because there’s no registration, there’s reporting a different story. So the growth, this can’t just go on 50,000 new ones a year. Even given 3-4%, you know, uh, dwindling and going away. Talk about technology and technology. Uh, you talked before about making online donations easy. That is changing the paradigm between donors and organizations such as we’ve never seen before. You and I are of an age when we still remember, uh, March of dimes going door to door. All right, That is over the canisters canisters. But think about it now. We are making it so easy for online or text, but we’re also making it very easy to give uninformed donations because it’s impulse. It’s on the second. It’s right there in your finger. The third thing is the generational change. We’re already seeing the statisticians and the demographic demographers already seeing a great, great, great change in terms of values and behavior amongst the millennials and us, but not just us, also the generation right behind us. So these three things churning are Have the power to totally change the nonprofit sector as we know it over the course of the next 15 years. And all I’m saying is we as a sector should be aware of these things and be prepared for what could happen and maybe try to steer the ship instead of just being a cork bobbing along where the tides and the winds take is where they will.

[00:54:54.74] spk_0:
Okay, just get the book for God’s sake bob, penna braided threads, a historical overview of the american nonprofit sector, you’ll find bob and his book at braided threads

[00:55:05.01] spk_1:

[00:55:05.56] spk_0:
com. Thank you very much bob. Thank you.

[00:55:42.34] spk_2:
Next week. Edgar Villanueva returns with a popular archive show de colonizing wealth. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. And by sending blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in Blue, our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein,

[00:55:50.86] spk_3:
Thank you

[00:55:52.00] spk_2:
for that information scotty

[00:55:53.74] spk_3:
be with

[00:55:54.07] spk_2:
me next week for nonprofit radio

[00:55:55.92] spk_3:
Big non

[00:56:12.84] spk_2:
Profit Ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. Yeah.

Nonprofit Radio for August 10, 2018: Your Media Relations Strategy

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d endure the pain of tacky fajita if you made me swallow the idea that you’re missed today’s show your media relations strategy co authors peter panepento and antionette car. I want you to have a plan for earned paid and owned media that’s great goal oriented, responsive, empowered, appealing and targeted they’re new book is modern media relations for non-profits i told you, take two millennials versus boomers we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant wagner see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. What a pleasure to welcome peter panepento to the studio and his co author, internet kurt to the show by phone. Peter welcome, welcome back. I’m excited to be back on tony martignetti non-profit radio back to the show. First time in the studio, though first time in the studio, we’ve done it by phone. We’ve done it on site at conferences, but never in the studio. So it’s pretty cool to see you in your native habitat. Thank you very much. Peter’s cofounder and philanthropic practice leader of turn to communications, a pr in communications firm working with non-profits and foundations, he has deep experience in the media and non-profits he was a journalist for more than twenty years, most recently as a managing editor at the chronicle of philanthropy that’s where i first met him even before he was managing editor. He’s at turn hyphen, too dot ceo and at peter panepento internet car welcome to the show. Thank you for having my pleasure. Internet is the founding ceo of bold and bright media, a multimedia publishing company helping non-profit writers tell their stories. She also works as a non-profit leader and a journalist. She contributes a weekly column for the lexington dispatch in north carolina, that’s where she started in journalism, she’s been a ted ex presenter and is a contributor to non-profit marketing guide that’s, a friend of the show give you the room, miller she’s been on a few times. Internet is at bold and bright media dot com and at the right folks w r i t again. Welcome, antionette. Look. Thank you. Welcome from north carolina. Now i have two homes in north carolina, in pinehurst and emerald isle. Where is lexington? I think it is somewhat north of finders. But finders is beautiful and it’s a lovely place. Not like to go and visit. Great place to go. Yes, it is. I’m not. Yeah. I’m not a golfer. A lot of friends say that’s a waste of a house in pine er’s. Because it’s actually on a golf course. But i just watched them thankfully. It’s. A nice, quiet sport and i don’t know too much about sports. But it’s a nice quiet one. It goes by in the backyard. I don’t hear them. No golf balls in the kitchen, windows xp. Fine. Where so we should get together sometime. We definitely should have written for a pine straw, which is a beautiful publication there in-kind okay, so, yeah, you get a chance to pick that up? I haven’t written for them in a while, but it’s really great magazine. Excellent. Pine straw, i’ll look for it together. Peter and antionette have this book new book called modern media relations for non-profits creating and active pr strategy for today’s world antionette let’s stick with you. Why? Why do we need a media strategy? Well, we need a media strategy because i haven’t been on the other side of covering non-profit and then on the executive director side, i was actually exactly director of where q different non-profits i realized that there was a missing element of communication, and a lot of that has to do with not having a media strategy. Most non-profits don’t have a sign media relations coordinator, we we wish we all had the money to do that thing strategy is really a cost effective way to implement some tools. Second make you a media darling that can help you get promoted in larger publications or on television and radio, so that our goal in writing this book was just to help people with, you know, some constant, active and quick ways that they can improve their media relations strategy. Peter, you were at clark chronicle of philanthropy when i first met you. I think you were web. Editor. That guy was probably right. Yeah, i was on your podcast that’s right before i had this show. I’m pretty sure this is very meta. Yeah, we’ve come. Yes. The student has become the teacher. You have to obey me now. We were in the chronicle philanthropy studio. Um and yeah, i think you were web editor. Alright. So through web editor, you became assistant. Was this a managing editor? And they’re managing editor or one of the managing editor’s eye was a system managing editor. Yeah, go right. The point is through that time you had you received thousands of from press releases to enquiries to phone calls, maybe tenth out who knows from non-profits trying to get attention, right? What are i mean, we have an hour together, so we can’t say it all here. Okay? What? What do you what? One or two things you wish non-profits could do? Would do better around their media? Yes. So, it’s interesting. I’ve been on both sides of this equation now, and i know how hard it is to pitch stories that yes, but but, you know, like antionette i had twenty years of experience in journalism, so i got a lot of pitches over the years, and as you noted, the time i had at the chronicle, i got a lot of pitches from non-profits and i think i think the biggest, biggest turnoff for journalists and the biggest thing i wish i could do when i would get a bad ah pitch from a from on organization is give some really basic advice to actually get to know the publication and the person that you’re pitching. This is that of getting blanket pitches that you send everybody, you know, get to know who you’re actually pitching and and know what they cover and and know a little bit about what the reporter editor cares about and taylor your pitch to that to that reporter, knowing what she or he might be interested in covering and the angle that they would want to cover. Okay, duitz you get so many, you get so many pitches that really the ones that stand out are the ones that that kind of, you know, they show some research, they show some research, they know what they cover like at the chronicle, we’re not going to come and cover your charity gala. Every every charity in the country covers a charity gala, but i would get, you know, all these news releases from organizations pitching their gala. I’m not going to cover that, but if you tell me something unique about what that gala might teach other non-profits or can identify a speaker, that might be of interest to a broader non-profit audience that might get my attention. So do that little extra bit of research find out what’s unique about what you’re doing and how that that unique thing that you’re doing actually intersects with the interests of that reporter you’re reaching out, okay? We’ll talk more about your advice for press releases specifically, but okay, excellent. So cem basic do some basic research now. I was disappointed to read in the book that newsrooms are no longer like i saw in the movie spotlight. It doesn’t mean it’s not like that anymore. It’s not it’s, not and what’s really interesting about spotlight, too is that that was pretty reese, right? I mean, that was an investigative team at the globe about ten years ago that was doing some major investigative work, some of that’s happening now, but in a lot. Of cases newsrooms have been really cut to the bone, they’ve been commoditized, the business has really changed and and as a result, there aren’t thes robust reporting staffs in these big news holes that you’re going after it’s become a lot more competitive, especially for non-profits who may actually be reaching out to publications that don’t have anybody who actually covers non-profits as a beating the non-profit beat right? All right, we’re going, we’re going toe take our first break, and it is for pursuant your newspaper is pursuing e-giving outlook, they took the latest fund-raising reports and boiled them down to the takeaways you need in a concise content paper. Watch the archive of their related web in or do both it’s, an ensemble piece of paper with matching webinar through the coordination both are on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital p for please now back to your media relations strategy. So peter what’s the implication of this degradation of the newsroom loss of the newsroom, no longer a non-profit beat reporter for non-profits trying to get the attention of media there, some negatives and positives related to that, i would say the big negative is that it’s a lot harder to identify the people you need to build relationships within news organizations and it’s a lot also a lot harder to get your story place, because there’s there, our reporter now might be hearing, you know from from even more folks who are competing for the limited space and what we’re talking about a newspaper here in this case in the newspaper. But it actually goes across local television and other things, too. There’s just the news hole ott of a lot of news organizations now have less space, or they are part of a conglomerate and there’s some, you know, national coverage in your local newscasts that has that’s eating up time now to that’s kind of mandate and there’s no one devoted to the non-profit beat, right? So the surgeon or the people you’re pitching r r have multiple assignments? Absolutely. Nobody is devoted to your your category of existence that’s, right? And people are turning over quickly too, so i’m so the net result of all of that is is you’re competing with a lot more people for a lot less attention. The upside of that, though, is if you are really good about building relationships with a few key reporters out there, and they start to trust you their time is so short instead of you having to pitch to them, they’re going to come to you probably a lot more regularly when they need an expert on a specific topic. So if you’re able to break through and get the attention of that reporter and and they trust you, um, that becomes really valuable to you and that’s really a key basis of the book to its howto build those relationships and howto break through and get to the point where it’s not just you sending news releases out to reporters and hoping they cover it, but but that they’re actually coming to you when they need an expert on your cause or on what’s happening in the nonprofit sector in your community or, you know, whatever you’re really looking, push, we need our media relations strategy to be much deeper than spread what you caught spray and praise brain provoc press releases, you know, to one hundred outlets, none tailored and just and just hopeful weigh a lot deeper that we’ll get to it, we’ll get to it shortly antionette by the way, i love the name antionette that was my grandmother’s name on my father’s side. Antionette antionette do you do you go by and short or do admonish people know it’s antionette now, it’s just that it’s hard to fail, but when it was hard enough to learn that name, so i think i’ll just go by that name because i noticed you have a n t i o n e t t and i think the more common spelling is oh, i end absolutely catches everything i never yet it’s right on my show sheet. I’ll prove it, peter, i’ll show him i have it spelled right every time because you’re smelling it like a grandmother, but i know i noticed i noticed you spell it differently. I thought maybe you were saying antionette but no, not internet. It’s okay, antionette martignetti was grandma martignetti you spend all the time in the book talking about ethics? Why internet? Why? Why? If we’re approaching media, why do we know about? Why do we need to know what’s the some ethics guidelines basics for journalists? Well, this is an important time in an important environment you’ve been a journalist. So one thing one of my pet peeves is whatever i work on a story non-profits asked me if they can read it, which would cause me to lose my job. I really leave a lot of people don’t understand that, you know, it could be really offensive that crosses the line between advertising and paid yeah versus a really urgent media story. So you know, where you go to a television producer, for example, and working studio you might be ableto see it after it edited and sent you, but you don’t really get to have input in that process, so we wanted people to understand that, and to really it’ll help with your relationship. So we begin our book with some jargon in terms that we use like moon, where the peter just talked about you tell me why someone would want to come to your gala will for a journalist, you say here’s, why they knew where they are, ears perked up so that’s that will really help people in establishing relationships to understand the ethics and the jargon and behind the scenes scenario with newsroom another point, you make his offering someone journalist free admission to a gala. Or maybe, you know, can i buy you a lunch? You should. We should know that. There’s. A good chance. You know you’re polite offers will politely be turned down. Right, and most organizations have a have a policy about that on the other side of the news room, so don’t take offense if they say no, i can’t accept your ticket. I mean, it’s it’s for, you know, a ten dollar event that might be that might not be an issue, but if it’s for one hundred fifty dollars gala, you know that that might be an issue for journalists, except that it could be considered, and julie influencing their objective news stories on din the new york metro area, it could be a fifteen hundred dollar ticket right way. Okay, we’ll get there in north carolina. It’s coming, it’s going, well, i’m not i’m not saying that’s a good thing anyway, i’m just saying that that’s that’s the state of the state of some some dollars in the northeast or certainly in the new york metro area, i’m not saying that that’s something to aspire to by any means, right? So you antionette you touched on earned and paid versus owns you in the book the two of you call this the trifecta could you distinguish between earned payden and owned media for us? Absolutely. And the trifecta isn’t a unique term for our conversation when that is used quite often in the journalism world, but what i noticed is that non-profits we’re really focused on earth media, but sometimes their strategies weren’t connecting their own video, which earned media traditional journalism. So it is what a reporter on whether it’s radio on the radio are print, which cover and its objective information paid media is advertising, and then all of the media which people forget that they actually own their own media sources right now between social media and website, they they do have control over that i’m seeing people, for example, a community college that had a huge cam picking that they paid for with an advertising firm to say we want a traditional student but well written their website, it didn’t really correlate with the messaging that they have paid so much money through advertising and paid people to get stories and earned the other press releases, and then they didn’t coordinate that with their own owned media that we really talk about dating you cover that case in the book that they were paying to get nontraditional students, but then there’s social media and the website was highlighting volleyball and some other sport. You know, it was highlighting the sports, and so people are looking for coordination in message, and they weren’t finding it right. They were born. They were showing back about players, and they wanted older students, people to consider themselves a student. If they’re older, they had a violent past about being featured on the website. Let’s, see so let’s stick with you internet talk a little about the earned media. Peter gave some tips about press releases. What i like way like here, actionable, no actionable strategies tips. You know what? What, what, what some other advice around making press releases more likely to be acted on and not not trashed. We have a section where we talk about appealing for may have been working with pressure lisa’s much first job as an intern at a newspaper with a full presently about the fax machine and deliver it to the right. This doesn’t seeing press releases the good, the bad and before quite some time and for non-profits a particular thing after you that they’re not really appealing a lot of times that we’re having the same event. You know, we talked about the gala where a golf tournament, we just kind of recycle the same press release every year and again, that’s not showing what worthy and a lot of times when you read the press release, i tell people, if you get bored reading your own press release that, don’t they? So just to make him appealing is good and then as some really powerful quote. So once the happiest people has this really stuffy quote from the executive director, that doesn’t end quality to the conversation. So that quote from from your weather report chairs or eighty your communications director to me, something exciting, not great language, but nothing exciting. You even recommend you recommend spending ten minutes interviewing the person, even if you’re the internal. You know, if you’re the internal communications person, you recommend spending ten minutes interviewing the person you’re going to quote, you can get some of their active language and bring some of that passion out that theyve got for the subject. Absolutely, absolutely that’s part of making your strategy appealing. So, you know, just just kind of sprucing up the language and and again removing the jargon from your non-profit and your great language. I feel like people, especially if they receive a grant that cutting case, you know, part of their executive summary into the press release and the journal is not you. I love making this news worthy. So, peter, our press release is still valuable men. Should we even bother be doing them, though? Yeah, i mean there’s value to him. But i think they shouldn’t be the default any more. I think a lot of organizations think there think that by sending news releases out, whenever they have something to announce that’s their media relations, they’ve got made a strategy right right on that it should be part of the picture, but it shouldn’t be the whole picture, and they are valuable in a couple of ways. One is they actually can provide valuable information to a reporter when they’re reporting on a story they’re very helpful toe have posted on your website a zoo in an archive for when people are looking for information specifically when reporters are looking for information on a lot of times, if you have those news releases posted on your website, they may connect through a story they’re writing on. It may not happen the day you signed the release out, but three months from now, if you release an important report on something and reporters covering that issue let’s say you put a report out about hunger in your community and it gets to be around the holidays and reporters doing story about hunger and hunger charities around the holidays that release might actually get their attention when they’re looking for information so there’s value there. But when i think you’re sending them out, i i feel like you get a lot more attention and you do a lot better job of building relationships if instead of just sending a news release to everybody on your media list, you you identify a few people and actually send a personal note to that reporter talking about what’s coming up, you know, giving them a heads up about what’s there, talking about some things that might be of interest in that announcement to that reporter and then making yourself available is a resource for for follow-up either right then or whenever the reporter needs that, i think if you actually spent more time doing that and less time just cranking out press releases you, you get more of your news covered and you built some better relationships and that the personal note idea. You have a little section in your book where you say you’re recommending something, you say way, have we switched years to make this a fund-raising book? No, you’re talking about relationships with reporters? Yeah, yeah, and no. So, i mean, i know it’s. Just that relationships are important and the personal note goes above and beyond how many personal. You know how many personal handwritten notes would you get in a month? You know what? The chronicle of philanthropy? Very few. But you know what? Average it’s a stand. And it stands up, you know? So he’s going to get rid. Exactly, write something stupid in your hand written note. You know, it’s still gonna end up in the garbage, right? So don’t try anything stupid, but, you know, you can stand out absolute waste. And that z very, uh it’s perfectly consistent with what we say about dahna relationships, absolutely for fundraisers sends the personal thank you note from a boardmember or something? Yeah, the personal notes, the thank you’s are really crucial. Azan example on dh this has happened fairly recently. One of the clients i work with, you know, is looking to build relationships with reporters who cover philanthropy in wealth. And i’ve reached out to a really prominent ray boerner, who covers wealth and have built a relationship with him without ever actually pitching a story to him. Yeah. So, you know, i sent along a couple of of story ideas to him and explain to him who i was and who i worked with and how i could be helpful to him. And we had a bit of a back and forth, and it got to a point where he actually reached in some of the email back and forth, he finally reached out to me and said, hey, i’m working on the story. Do you have any people who can who can be quoted and and i got back to him with three people home run, yeah, he’s asking you, he’s asking me, and then on top of that following that and, you know, actually delivering on it and him getting the sources he wanted. I got our email back afterwards where you actually i thank him for the story and he replied back and he said, you are now in the pantheon of pr people whose emails all open every time. So if grand slam, if you can deliver on that, you can you can move yourself into that pantheon and and that’s way more valuable than that would’ve been way more that one relationship is way more valuable than me putting a release out on pr newswire and hoping it gets picked up a thousand times more. See all these ideas in the book you got to get the damn book that’s just the point where we can’t cover everything in an hour. It’s modern media relations for non-profits just buy-in panepento incur. Just get the done thing let’s see? Okay, little moron earned media. That was some good in the media for us, right? They’re actually very good. It wasn’t e-giving, but nobody. You’re welcome, but nobody listens to this show way. Have over thirteen thousand. Um, let’s. Stick with you, peter. Peter p on on beds writing your you can write up ed. You’re writing on spec though you might spend a lot of time. It may not get printed, but it could be valuable if it if it does absolutely, you can be purposes. That’s, right? Ok. Writes a little opera. Okay. So op eds. If you’re not familiar with what i’m not, that is if their opinion pieces that are written by outside writers. Thank you. You’re a newspaper keeping me out of george in jail. Well, my own show. I have jack in jail and i think it’s interesting s o, i’m about to put out an e book on top says, and we’ve had a really hard time titling it because way can’t assume that anybody knows what an op that is so it’s kind of an internal struggle i’m having right now too, but ah ah lot of people think that op eds are kind of ah dinosaur thing of the past that they don’t really exist anymore, but guess what? Newspapers are still running them, and in fact they’re probably running more of them now because they have smaller staff, so they’re actually looking for more writers to contribute to their pages. So if you’re actually looking to advance an idea or, you know, advance an issue trying to, you know, build awareness about, you know, health care and you’re in your community or some kind of gap there, this is an opportunity for you to build a, well, a statue, you know, well crafted argument written by a thought leader in your organization, your ceo, your executive director, you know, the head of whatever initiative you’re working on and and use that space is a is a a place to kind of articulate your argument about why that issues important and what’s being done about it, or what people can do about it and a cz you noted the great value of that, you know, there is competition for these so you you’re writing these on spec your you may send it into ah paper, and they may not pick it up. The op ed page is limited space, right? Exactly if it does get picked up. Wonderful, right? You’ve gotten you’ve gotten in there if it doesn’t get picked up now you have a piece of writing that you can use for other things, you can use it on. You’re on your own media, you can use it on your website. You could put it in an appeal to donors. You can put it in your annual report. You khun it’s, it’s, not wasted effort. You can you can do something else with it. And the great thing about the era of internet journalism now, too is if the if the peace does get picked up before you know, twenty years ago you pick up the newspaper, you’d read the op ed that day and you throw it away. Now it lives forever online and when people are searching on that topic, your op ed might show up six months later and you might win a new supporter. You might, you know, no, get somebody who wants to learn more about your organization and joined your email list, you can get lasting value from these now internet there’s. Also some services is that you can use teo to find out what generalists are working on currently, as they’re trying to source. Haro is one help a reporter out profnet say little about those would you please sure the one of the big things that we really try to emphasize that help people find you. So a lot of times reporters are working in a silo like peter mentioned before, they have us to worry they have a story idea whether they’ve pitched it to the editor of the editor, came that i really love you to write a christmas story about non-profits in the area, i get that i get that a lot, and so here they are. You know, out here looking for sources. Finding people on facebook is a really great way, but there are services like said president, helpful reporter out sourced bottle on pitch rate that you can, you can say, you know, here here we are, here’s our mission and we can provide stories on this particular topic so you can go forward and really and thinking about your strategy think about what stories you want to share. I worked with a community that serves families who are facing homelessness, and they wanted people to know what that looks like, and they wanted to challenge this stereotype. So when they had an opportunity to connect with reporters over the holiday, they really share different stories about who was living in their community and why, and that was great for them because it was a really empowered story versus just having an expectation that you’re only is gonna work out the way you wanted to. We have just about a minute before a break internet so we’re gonna spend a lot of time after this break talking about great goal oriented, responsive, empowered, appealing and targeted for your media strategy started start us off with goals, and we’ll have plenty of time. The finish up talk more after the break, we’re gonna start with what your advice around setting goals for your strategy? Well, i wouldn’t say start with your with your team, so you know what if whatever role you’re in and you’re reading this book, i mean, we wrote it so that it could be helpful before members of your communications staff eighties, but really start with city now with her team and talking about what is your goal for your media relations strategy? That’s a measurable outcomes like you would for a grand opportunity and think what what comes out of that conversation? It’s really simple, but not something that people take the time to do in their non-profit daily work, you have some sample? Ah, couple of sample goals you can share. Yes, one of the big goals we talked about that before, with the with the community college i worked with was, do they really sell student enrollment going down? And they thought, has only increased enrollment, so their media relations strategy goal was to show that, you know, other that, you know, you just have to be a high school student high school graduate coming directly to the community college. They wanted to emphasize that college was open and welcoming to also they said, oppcoll around that i’ve also you know, i’ve had a personal goal of my last organisation, i work for housing non-profit that kept getting mistaking for the housing authority that our goal was just for people to know our name was a big old fred. All right, we’ll take, uh, take a break. Weather cps it’s personal now heat coach doom he’s a partner. You heard him on the four hundredth show just two weeks ago. Check out the firm, then talk to him. Very good guy. He’s no pressure, have you? I don’t know if you have you ever even heard of a high pressure sepa? I’m not sure that exists, but dahna you will listen to what your needs are and then he’ll tell you whether they can help you. They are wagner, cps dot com to start and then talk to him now. Time for tony steak, too. While there is a lot of talk about millennials, including on this show covered in many times millennials, donors, i’m pursuing baby boomers. I’ve got a different perspective. If you’ve got donorsearch or sixty and over, you need to promote plan gift to them that’s gift in their estate and retirement plans? I’ve heard it so many times loyal donor-centric boardmember they’ve been giving for fifteen, twenty years, maybe more, they die and there’s nothing in their state plan for the organization, everybody expected it, you know, people are saying we just assumed it would be there, but it’s not there they were never asked. I hear about it because it’s often the reason that people initiate contact with mito to start a plan giving program because they’re so disappointed about this, this gift that you expected and wasn’t there and they don’t want to repeat that they’re competitors are asking, your competitors are asking the other non-profits it might be a small community and, you know, they’ve found out that there was a gift to another organization in their will in the community that hurts a lot, but they were left out on against that they didn’t ask. So it’s it’s really not? You know, millennials versus baby boomers uh, you don’t you might very well need to be promoting to both, depending on what your causes and who you don’t what your donor looks like, but, well, the headlines and webinars you know often are going to millennial. E-giving i’m paying attention to baby boomers sabat there’s a north an enormous amount of wealth in that generation, and they are generous with it, and that creates potential. My video says a lot more, and that is at twenty martignetti dot com let’s go back to peter panepento and antionette car who are with me talking about their new book, modern media relations for non-profits, um, answer that we were talking about goals, the g and great, um, you need to identify who you want to be pitching once, you know what you want to do you to identify, you know, who you’re what, your audiences, right, who the right journalists are absolutely, and i need to pitch with purpose. So instead of spray and phrase talk about know, how do you how do you actually pitch with purpose? And a lot of that piers talked about with your delivery of, you know, sitting a press release but also sending a personal note or pitching or approaching them even when you aren’t necessarily pitching your no, i’m agreeing with you and cut you off there no, no, absolutely absolutely that’s that’s part of our goal oriented basically it’s what’s. Your game plan? What we’re asking people, you know, what do you each year you should sit down with your non-profit and say, what’s our game plan with our media relations strategy? You some people call it a campaign, you want to look at it that way, but that is important, and it can it can enhance what you already have going on. Maybe you’re having a big no anniversary fundraiser that really wants some great media attention around that. This could really help you with promoting your fund-raising strategy well and go hand in hand. You need to think of it as something long term to write a relationship building like you were saying, peter, absolutely, and in setting the goals, they’re really not goals there. Not so much goals for your media placements, but as much as their goals for your organizations and you’re connecting your media strategy to your organizational mole. So it has the huh? The maximum value free organization if you’re only able to invest, you know, twenty hours a month of media relations let’s, make sure we’re investing those twenty hours a month on something that’s actually going to move the needle for the organization not just necessarily get you media hits for the sake of media and in the in the immediate term, right? Like, you know, if you if you’ve got your, uh, let’s say you got a milestone anniversary. So you got a fifty if their hundredth anniversary coming up, you know, the time to think about your media strategy is not two weeks before the big gala celebrating the anniversary, right? Yeah. It’s, like, eighteen months before of the anniversary. Osili abila start building those relationships like you’re talking about exactly what you want to build the relation in ships, and then you actually want to think about all right, we have we have one hundredth anniversary coming up. What do we want to? Not only not only do we want to celebrate that, but what do we want that to say? What message do we want to come out of that? Who do we want to reach with that message and having some clear goals around that that actually kind of advanced the work of your organization, you know, really gets you off much bigger lift from the effort and the investment that you are putting in the media. In the in the end. And it requires more thinking and and work up front. But it’s going to lead to much better results. And i think. What? What always gets me and and i understand why it happens is is a cz you noted like you don’t you don’t just make it an afterthought two weeks before the event. Oh, no, we’ve got to invite the media to this that’s. What leads to those cookie cutter press releases? They don’t get into any impact, but if you are actually building the relationships, you’re thinking about what the key messages are your thinking about how they connect to the reporters you want you want, you actually want to connect with, ah, that time is really well spent, and you probably actually ultimately wanna spend less time chasing stories than you. You you are if you’re just kind of doing the dahna oh, no, we need a press release conversation two weeks before that, and you’re also so much more likely to have a positive outcome absolutely and less frustration, absolutely absolutely the are they are in our great is responsive. Does this mean that our media strategy should be responsive? We’ve covered a little this already in the conversation, but really it’s about making sure that you’re not just pushing things at a reporter that you’re being responsive to that reporter’s needs and what here she might be working on. So it’s it’s really media relations there’s two words in it there’s media, obviously, but there’s relations it’s it’s building that relationship on dh kind of being attuned to and responsive to the needs of that reporter that you’re tryingto work with. So it means it means being available, it means, you know, helping connect them the sources it means sometimes actually saying we’re not the best source for you, but let me connect you to somebody at another organization who is on, and it also means to having some basic information on your website and some other places that are actually helping a reporter when they’re on a deadline, connect with you and get the information they need. So we talked a bit about the fact that a lot of non-profits don’t have, you know, a media or a pressroom page on their web sites, and if they dio, they may include a bunch of press releases there, but no contact information for for their media person on dh having been in that reporters share and looking for sources if i can’t find your media contact. Or a place to to connect with you. I’m going to move on to the next organization s o being responsible in some ways being proactive, too. It’s, you know, it’s it’s having some of those basic kind of, you know, building blocks in place to make sure that you’re you’re responding to the needs of the reporters. Internet let’s say little about this flesh is fallible, but in terms of deadlines and you know the urgency that a reporter has when they’re on assignment first, let me ask a basic question is this i used to learn back when i had relationships with people like stephanie strong at the new york times who once upon a time had the new york non-profit beat in the times that ten a m was a critical time like that was a deadline time for a lot of newspapers. Is that is that anachronistic maya dinosaur? Or does that there’s something like that still hold true? I know you’re not a dinosaur at all. I would never say that. Hee hee. I never say that, but every publication as their own deadlines and that’s another thing that speaks to what? What peter mentioned. Understanding the reporters deadline and i love whenever i reach out to people and they say what’s your deadline because they know that they’re going to try to help me keep things moving in a timely manner. That’s a good question, and one that might impress your reporter friend of what you just did. And the other aspect of this being responsive is that when the news breaks that might be related to your organization, one particular organization talked, and we share this example in the book about how there was a domestic violence situation, unfortunately, with nfl player in there state that really launched this conversation about domestic violence, and they responded, but, you know, when you’re where they call newsjacking you have to be ready to go on dh and be prepared to be the scout leader for the person leading the conversation and really no sharing why this particular thing that happens, your organization have been working with families to help ensure that that just doesn’t happen. So they were i mean, you know, when reporters call you calling back, understanding their deadlines, but also if you wanna happen, teo a popular topic in news cycle reach out to a reporter and say, i know everybody’s talking about me too, here’s, how our organization within that conversation and that’s what newsjacking is ok, just try and keep you out of jack in jail. You’re paroled, okay, but longs to explain the term newsjacking alright, so it’s taking advantage of what’s happening in the news, right, and seeing how your organization fits into it and can lend its expertise to the conversation. Absolutely. Okay, um, okay, okay. Um, anything else about well, events? Yeah, internet hyre peter. Peter was talking about events, and, you know, the ubiquitous gala press releases that he would see, but but hey, touched on this little bit. I want you to flush it out for me. If there is something newsworthy about your event, then, you know, highlight that, like he mentioned, uh, maybe a celebrity attending or something like that. Absolutely so that’s a good way to get the media out, offer them a media representative of a time before or after, where they can talk to the celebrity or the expert. You know, i’ve seen a lot of people successful when they had data report, and they offered this expert as they made it relatable to a community need, and then they offered an expert who will interview we do have a section where we talked about what to do to make your event we’d hear friendly, yes. So having been on the other side of that, you know, it has been a challenge with reporters show up everybody’s busy at the gala for the event, and, you know, things are hectic and the reporter shows up looking for the executive director, and no one can seem to find that person who was it? Who was the media contacts and doing something as simple as making a little place where you tell the reporter here’s where you could check in is nice and important, and you really don’t want the reporter roaming around, you know, in some cases talking to random people, so i went to one of it. And i assure you that i was there on assignment and never find anybody who would take the time to talk to me, so i went back and told my editor, we weren’t covering that story. So that’s that’s really, you know, one thing that people don’t think about that think about it in the media there when they’re they’re sometimes they are prepared, so we talk about how to how to make your event media’s really before, during and after the event and share some of your coaching tips for for when they are talking to the executive director ceo, the person may not be so media savvy. You have you have a lot of tips in the in the book share a couple of those for coaching in advance to prepare so coaching and prepare. You want to make sure your media person is on message that’s part of that goal conversation. So, you know, whoever is responsible for coaching the scout leader, that could be a boardmember a lot of times it is, and, you know, that’s, even worse, they don’t do work on the day to day basis, so you want to give them the key. Points, and he did don’t overwhelm them with information, but maybe even a sheet to say no if you get stuff, bring it back to this message and bring it back to this place. I recently experienced that i am on a community advisory board, so i was in that position where our public radio stations and they had a white board and the communications director was like, ok, tell me why you like public radio, and then she would tie it to key messaging, lifelong learners. So she said, well, just keep saying lifelong learners get stuck just say and i’m a lifelong learner, so that was messaging that they wanted to promote it fit within something that was very comfortable for my story and that’s a tip that i also get two people to make sure that that you give them some practical tips. But i’m not why they why they like being a part of your organization that they’re boardmember if there is the executive director, make sure they’re not doing day to day work, they’re busy thinking differently. Make sure they have a personal connection to the story. Peter, you can probably give tips for foundations. Sure, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it’s really about kind of both preparing the spokesperson or the leader for with, with what those key messages are, but it’s also kind of preparing them for what to do when they don’t know an answer to something, and in some cases it’s, it’s, it’s, even them saying, you know, i actually don’t have that information in my fingertips can i have? Can i have somebody follow up with you after the interview, or can we send you some more information afterwards? A reporter often, especially when they’re dealing with non-profits isn’t out to get you, you know, they want to get accurate, useful information, so though they’ll respect that and and and if you don’t know an answer to something, just say you don’t know an answer something and yeah, by the same token, you talk about the hot mic problem and the fact that anything that a reporter hears is fair game unless it’s explicitly off the record. Yes, there’s there’s tons more tips. Yeah, no, i think the one thing to keep in mind, though, is that anything you actually say can unless it’s it’s agreed upon between you and the reporter that it’s off the record and they can’t use it it’s fair game is shooting after they put their notebook and that the men away. Some of the best stuff i ever got as a reporter was after i put my notebook, you know, i closed my notebook and the doug, and it wasn’t deceptive at all. The people let their guard down a little bit, and they start talking a little bit more contemporaneously, and then you go in, the reporter might go back and say, oh, hey, do you mind if i write that down or can you can you talk a little bit more about that kind of make it give them a signal that there are they actually are still on the record, but but always assume when you’re talking to a reporter, when you’re when you’re sitting in front of a microphone like i am right now, that it’s getting picked up way have a president who knows that very well right now. All right, so you know what you say in the presence of a reporter is is on the record, and there are a lot more tips about coaching your ceo. We gotta take a break, tell us you’ve heard me say the test. The tellers, moughniyah, lt’s, tell us, moughniyah, lt’s from from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and air. Getting that revenue each month, and from the companies who are using tello’s. Four credit card processing can use more revenue that long stream of passive revenue. You’ve heard the tell us. Moughniyah, lt’s. Watch the video it’s at tony dot, m a slash tony. Tell us now, back to peter panepento and antionette car. Let’s, move on because we’re going to cover the whole word greek and there’s there’s more about were jumping around. We’re jumping to different parts of it a little bit as well. Just gr yeah, it comes e what do you mean, jumping around this a planned? Well, i mean, we’re kind of covering a little bit of empowered with some of the other things we’re talking about, okay? That’s what i’m saying? Yeah, you’re staying on target antionette hyre assault so anarchists but oppcoll look, i’ll keep you on a message, all right? I’ll help you with your media strategy, your media messaging. Okay, so yeah, there’s a lot more about being responsive. Just get the book for pizza. Alright? Empowered the ian. Great empowered what do this mean? Peter it’s really about kind of owning your message and being proactive in your in your in your work with reporters and wave touched on this issue at different points in the conversation here, but it’s really about not waiting for things to happen to you, but kind of being in a position where you’re where you’re taking an empowered and proactive role in talking about your organization and reaching out to reporters in showing up in the places where where they are so it’s not just again sending emails and press releases its making sure that your, you know your web page has the right information it’s making sure that yes, your own properties? Yeah, you know it’s actually properly it’s it’s, it’s identifying the reporters that you care most about uncover your beat following them on twitter and, you know, retweeting their messages and doing things they’re so you’re kind of showing up on their radar screen and getting their attention that way. It’s it’s really taking the steps that you can in little and big ways to to make sure that that, you know you are showing up and you are kind of putting yourself out there and all the places that really that really help your organization get a story told in the media also, if there’s some placement and it’s inaccurate o r you’re accused of being fake news or you have some rights in this process, absolutely too, and being empowered is recognizing what to do when when this story is wrong or, you know, you feel like something is mischaracterized you feel like somebody’s misquoted. They got a fact wrong, it’s it’s knowing that you have some tools in your toolbox to ask for a correction to run a write a response letter to the editor to take steps to actually own your message. Even in the cases where part of the story was missing or keep perspective was missing. Your organization’s left out of a story that you feel like you should have been in, you know, knowing that you actually have a right and and, uh and an ability to actually advocate for yourself and try to right those wrongs. And we have a lot of tips on how to do that. You also have advice on positioning your organization. Somebody within your organization is a thought leader. Yes. Power say little about s o and an answer not. And i both weigh both work on this issue quite a bit. It’s it’s. You know if and and ties back to your goal. Let’s, say your goal is to position your your organization, your community college as a place for lifelong learners. For people who are nontraditional students having and and by doing that one of the things you decide you want to do is you want to get the message out that there’s value in education in your thirties, forties and fifties, for instance, having an expert on your staff being kind of the voice for that issue, who’s out, advocating and talking about that in your in your own media, but also in her new media is really valuable. So having tony martignetti, the expert in our college, on lifelong learning and looking, you know, for opportunities for him to write op eds for him to be a voice in coverage of education around that issue. You’re branding a person and your organization is a thought leader, but by extension, you’re raising the profile of your organization and building relationships that will get you more media coverage and get you more attention from prospective students, prospective donors and others. There’s a lot of advice in the book about how to position yourself, how to make yourself ready, making organization ready for for to position yourself as as thought leaders plus thank you for the the durney talk pretty when he says my name martignetti martignetti three italians and thank you for that. Yeah, i should have made it about playing, giving. All right, because that’s where your i was going to admonish you that on very shortly start for our last break text to give mobile donations made easy, it’s, simple, affordable, secure. While i was on their sight for a few minutes last night, donations were popping up. The window pops up. Tells you with new donation the ten. Twenty, there are multiple fifties, there was a fifteen hundred donors are using them. Text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine for info on text to give and to claim your special listener offer. Got about six more minutes for your media relations strategy. Internet let’s. Turn to you, teo. Talk about the r is appealing. Your media relations strategy needs to be appealing. What do you two mean there? So we spent time interviewing other journalists about what they would like to see. Not just based on our experience, but we interviewed other people about what they wanted to see in covering non-profits and here’s. How that chapter came together. People told us what they what they wanted to see impressively. The list of them against the elements of a really good quote. I mentioned it. Earlier that people didn’t want to see, you know, great jargon were like, you know, since, um, you know, very it sounds like the official statement of the organization in the quote, but they were looking for something a little bit, you know, when one reporter described it exactly, like, give me something sexy and so that’s how this appealing conversation came about, and the other thing is visuals, a lot of people are under pressure, they might have one photographer that is going to cover breaking news or that that is really important because they high resolution, high quality photos and in some cases, officially, in the television side, videos for the website there’s a pressure we heard from television reporters to have other content on the web site outside of the interviews so that the media source can run that. So having me visuals are very appealing to people, and they’re very helpful when you’re covering something like data and report like, you know, some of us who like that, you know, like reports, but of others in immediate really need to know what’s appealing about your report, so having a very cool executive summary and maybe some really great brand messaging will be helpful. You know, something colorful, even a cover, read it and just spending that in your press early. So those are some of the things we talked about, and we also talk about if you are able to do that, it might be time that hyre announce that resource. So that’s, a question that came up for a lot of non-profit that we interviewed, like, when do we know it’s time to invest? We don’t have this ability to make it appealing or the time in our wheelhouse. So we just give some examples of when you might want to invest in and out, that a company that can help you get placement in coverage, like a turn to that, that that is a really question for non-profit. A little piece of earned media there, like like a turn, too. Yeah, turn hyphen to dr dot ceo that’s, right? Wow, yeah, yeah, bookmark it, everyone. I tell you something else. Ah, on appealing visual. Yeah, you sent you say in the book on lee on ly fourteen percent of the press releases that pr newswire hosts have have anything visual on them, even though it’s a very good idea was, like fourteen percent or doing it so you could be in the and you could be in the eighty sixth percentile. If you just start doing some writing, you’re having some visuals that a publication can not only get the attention of the reporter, but they could run with a story they might cover gives you a bit of a leg up having a photo having cem cem, you know, nicely produced infographics for report. You have those things actually can help tip the scales for you in a really big way, a little known secret at the chronicle, and i’m sure stacey palmer’s either going to be very happy or admonished me afterwards for saying this, but they don’t have a staff photographer at the chronicle philanthropy almost all of the photos they run, they either have to hire out or they get them from non-profits that air cover that that they’re covering, and having been inside the chronicle for years, um, you know, often it would fall on the reporter to actually find photos for a story and guess what if if i know a non-profit has an interesting perspective, and they have a great photo that could go with my piece and i and i and i know i can check that off my box and get that done, you know, i’m going to spend a little extra time talking to that non-profit making sure i can work them into the story because now i have a photo to go with the story so ah, a little piece of tip if you’re trying to get the chronicle, have some good photos available for him. Stacy problem, of course. Dropping names. She’s, the editor in chief? Yes, yes. Alright. Antionette i’m going to turn to you with a little bit of pressure. We just have about a minute. So would you explain targeted, please? I will indeed. We talked about it already in the we mentioned that somewhere in the goal oriented section again, this is identifying relationship. One of the things we talk about, we give an example of a non-profit that really had some great media coverage to a podcast that was related to the topic, so they work in the areas of george preservation, and they connected with george preservation podcasts and it’s the best media coverage they were able to receive, they were ableto have fun donors and boardmember through this relationship. So, you know, taking some time to sit down, we call it modern media relations because a lot of the other books were out before podcasts were even popular, but we really try to challenge people to think about a targeted strategy. And where is your audience? The best audience for you and your non-profit work? Yeah, i’ll give you thirty seconds on targeted. Yes. Oh, this podcast is example of that. Antoinette and i you know, when we were mapping out our media strategy for this book, we targeted a few outlets that we thought were really valuable. They were the outlets that reached non-profit leaders and folks who could benefit from this book. And guess what? You were on that list by implication buy-in non-profit radio is a valuable resource, absolutely. Bye. You know, we didn’t send this to folks who covered the textiles industry. We sent it to folks who cover non-profits and we were really targeted and who we knew we reached out to him. He’s peter panepento you’ll find him at turn hyphen too. Dot ceo and at peter panepento and she is antionette car at bold and bright media dot com and at the right folks w r i t internet peter. Thank you so, so much. Thank you. This was great pleasure. Thank you. My pleasure, antionette next week. Not sure have ever let you down, though, except for that one show on fermentation. But that aside, if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Twenty dahna slash pursuant capital p weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps, dot com bye tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, known to these teo co authors sam leaving, which is the line producer. You have to get the book to see how they know her. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the either ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get in. Thank you, cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in something potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 18, 2018: Blockchain and Bitcoin 101 & Be Data Driven

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Sheila Warren: Blockchain and Bitcoin 101

You’ve certainly heard of them. You’re probably confused by them. Let’s straighten it all out. What are these technologies and what do they mean for your nonprofit? Sheila Warren is a knowledgable instructor and makes it easy to understand. She’s with World Economic Forum. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)




Eli Hertz:
 Be Data Driven
What are the reasons to create a data-driven culture in your organization and what challenges will you face? Which tools can help you? Eli Hertz is from United Service Organizations (USO). (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)





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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer due to wrap a thie if you said primarily that you missed today’s show blockchain and bitcoin one oh one you’ve certainly heard of them. You’re probably confused by them let’s, straighten it all out. What are these technologies? And what do they mean for your non-profit sheila warren is a knowledgeable instructor and makes it easy to understand she’s with world economic forum that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and be data driven. What are the reasons to create a data driven culture in your organization? And what challenges will you face? Which tools can help you? Eli hurts is from united service organizations uso that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference. I’m tony steak too it’s. Time to make time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant to radio bye weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cpas, dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s here is sheila warren and block, jane and bitcoin welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re coming to you from new orleans, the convention center there. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits my guest is sheila warren. Welcome, sheila. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure. Sheila is head of blockchain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum on dh her workshop topic is started. I’m talking about you like you’re not here. You’re workshop topic is blockchain for non-profits fact versus fiction. Yes. Okay, um i’m gonna tell you this one has been intimidating me a little bit because i and i even did research on this research. My voice is cracking over, not nervous, but it isn’t intimidating because i’ve tried to crack the bitcoin, not blockchain, but the bitcoin topic two years ago at ntc it was not a dedicated topic. It was became a a digression that i created on i regretted it while i was mired in it and i couldn’t get away out gracefully and and we never really talked about you in what? What the heck bitcoin is okay, so since then i’ve done some technology. I’ve done some reading if i describe bitcoin as there’s, no there’s a greater fool. Does that make sense that you mean it doesn’t really have a value other than the hope that someone will buy it after me and therefore increased my value? I mean, is that i think you’re jumping right into the controversy right into the thick of it. I read the wrong article, i think that’s great, i think let’s back out of that. Okay, okay. Go in. Any direction you like? I did some research, but i don’t want to get mired in it. Okay? Bitcoin. Blockchain. All right, why don’t we start since bitcoin was popular before blockchain? Although i know that they are related in one relies on the other. I have that much down. So i think you’re ahead of many knowing that there’s a distinction between the two? Yes. Ok, i do. All right. I’ll just ask you simply, which i tried two years ago. What is bitcoin and how does it relate? Toe non-profit? Yeah, sure. Okay. So i’ll start by saying you know the number one thing i want people to take away anytime i do any kind of speaking is bitcoin and blockchain are not the same thing now they’re equated because bitcoin is built on something that’s called the bitcoin blockchain, so the terminology is quite confusing but the best analogy i can think of is that bitcoin is to block chain as email is to the inter so blockchain is a foundational technology when it is finally really baked into our systems, people will stop talking about it the way we don’t really talk about the internet anymore except we’re being a bit ironic. We talked about applications, right and bitcoin is an application on blockchain. It is the most famous application on blockchain. It was the first application on blockchain. Bitcoin blockchain was built for bitcoin. So be like if the internet was built for email, you could do other things. But it would be this equations were trying to do is teo that of course let’s tease it apart. These are a lot of other things you could do with a block to that have nothing to do with bitcoin. And even if bitcoin were to completely fail and go away. There would still be exactly the way it will be an internet without email. Okay, let’s, just before we get to the blockchain value on its transparency, etcetera, let’s just flush out the big going a little more so i think non-profit think of it because it’s impossible fund-raising right? I mean, it’s, possible revenue source. Yeah, donors could give gives to you and there have been enormously large gift in the press. Yeah, of bitcoin two non-profits so, yeah, i agree. Okay, so let’s dive into a little green deeper into bitcoin. Yeah, so i was wrong. So i was that was something controversial. I said that it doesn’t have intrinsic value. Well, i mean, i think it has doesn’t have intrinsic value. I mean, bitcoin itself that’s a big debate. I mean, people, some people argue absolutely has intrinsic value because it’s filling a gap in a way that nothing else can really fill the gaps. Some people argue it has absolutely no intrinsic value. It’s all just like, basically hyped value in market value. Like whatever the pr around and i think that’s, right? But that that’s arguably no different than many. Early stage, you know, cos right, like, when you think about equity in an early stage company doesn’t have value of tv, you know, so it’s not that different. So i think to me what i find interesting or kind of mildly amusing at times is like the idea. This is like this brand new distinction, right? We kind of have this model already. It’s called early stage equity grantwriting mean, like those might be paper and worth nothing. They might be worth a ton of money you don’t really know. And to be honest, like your kind of gambling when you buy a digital currency, you know, you should have written the article that i read well, of course you know, you should get them. I not that i should have found your articles. I didn’t know you when i was doing this. Well, i wasn’t in this case two years ago. I just entered the space two years ago, but my research is more recent durney written articles way have something coming out actually, next week on april nineteenth, we’re doing a launch of what we’re calling a blocked a decision making, took it about blockchain and really trying to make it very accessible to the layperson, not in terms of what is it? But is it valuable to you? Is that we’re gonna find that in the world economic forum. Sightly ok, ok, good. Look for that if you want to know more about this, okay. Back-up so let the bitcoin all right? Backing out of the controversy part of it people could give you get absolutely, yeah, just the way they used to get. Yes, you make some very good analogies up early stage equity interests. That would be a challenge for non-profits to deal with. Exactly. Okay, and now we’ve overcome that at some point, real property was hard to deal with, like getting real estate starts thinking the new newest iteration of that. But it’s really no different. Don’t be scared. Don’t be scared. You want to know how to receive it? Receiving bitcoin is actually not that hard. You got a coin bait. I mean, this is one example, but what the easiest example probably is you go to coin base, you get a receipt on lee wallet base. Coin base is a company that has what’s called bitcoin wallets. You get a rece ive on ly bitcoin wallet that lives in the ability to receive bitcoin, converted into fiat currency and move on with your day. You can’t buy bitcoin with that wallet, but it’s a pretty easy mechanism. We’re getting you and their other competitors as well. There’s a kind of ah a cottage industry, if you will, in this kind of thing, okay, you receive only while it will be sufficient. And then how will you convert that to its done that’s? All worker magically on the back end, right? You kind of pick your currency usually it’s usd. And then you just they do the conversion for you at the current rate and then you move it out. Now you’re still accepting whatever the current rate is, you might decide you want to hold it longer and want to play the market. It exactly. But it’s like it’s no different for foreign currency. But the cashing out of it is just another it’s. Just a different call. The defense called a wallet, which isn’t you know, i think a very accurate term actually ways we have one of those wallets that enables you to receive this particular kind of currency and then you just decide when you want to cash it out. You move on with your job. These doesn’t want to do he’s well known icons, wallets, you know, it helps. It helps those of us who were trying to get our way in. Well, well, i put my money in my wallet, right? So i’ll just get my bitcoin in my virtual wall. Exactly. Okay, what’s, the what’s, the one you you name, that we could go to base one base dot com and there are others are ok, but you can start there. And it’s. Very simple. Okay. That’s, how to receive bitcoin gift for your non-profit thank you, strickler. You’ve been doing this a while. You’ve been talking to a lot of deal fights. Clearly it’s my my fair parts of my job. Okay, excellent it’s. Time for a break. Pursuing the art and science of acquisition is one of their content papers acquiring new donors. Is it part of your summer planning, perhaps, or keeping your prospect pipeline full is on your mind so you keep revenue robust? How is revenue? If you’re thinking about acquisition? Get the paper. The art and science of acquisition it’s on the listener landing page. Tony dot m a slash pursuant radio now back to block chain and bitcoin one oh, one now let’s, go to blockchain technology. Okay, now that we understand that bitcoin is but one one channel it’s built on built on a blockchain technology. Okay, how would you describe blockchain technology? Yeah. So i like to use the example. Elect yousa thank you. Tell me, but it seems to worry working for so if you and i were teo, i would buy something from you. Whatever it was, then we might decide. Okay? There are two options when we could just we don’t trust each other. Let’s say we contains other cash, marie and i just can’t do it. Whatever dollar bill ten dollar bill you give me the whatever it is and i walk away and we both walk away very happy our transaction is completed. Another way that people do. This is we get our mobile devices and we decided we’re using paypal or venmo are square cash or whatever it is. And we engaged in a transaction and we both again walk away. Satisfied? That transaction is complete. There are five. Parties in the mobile example there’s you, me, your bank, my bank and intermediary, whether that’s, paypal or whatever it is and the reason that you and i are confident enough to walk away from the transaction feeling it’s completed is because we trust those three intervening parties. We trust that they’re goingto all suspect effectively and sufficiently debit my account and credit your account the right amount of money, and we don’t have to really pay attention to that, right? But you can imagine, and this is hypothetical in our case and sort of the western united states largely, but not everywhere. You can imagine a world in which i don’t have access to a bank account or you don’t or both of us don’t. There is no intermediary that’s going to be trusted any matter is easily hacked whatever is for whatever reason we have no trust in this system and we want to exchange something that’s analogous to cash bitcoin additional currency. Is that anil? It is basically the internet analog of my handing you cash there is no meaningful intermediate is no centralized intermediary that’s mediating that transaction for us we’re able to peer-to-peer exchange that value so that is the beauty, if you will, of digital currency, right? And what it provides the marketplace that doesn’t currently otherwise exist except for in paper. Ok, how does blockchain is what enables that happen? So what’s happening this magical middle? I’m not actually hand i’m not like brain sending you something, right? There’s something happening in here what’s happening in here is blockchain is being deployed essentially i mean it’s not technically accurate, but let’s for our sake. What is actually happening? Okay? Rather than me sending something to a central authority and kind of like a chain of central authorities were sending it to a distributed network. So we’re saying what our ways of creating trust? Well, one way creating trust is to trust an intermediary if you don’t have one other way, cretin trust is to make take it totally distributed. So imagine if between us there was a network of a thousand computers not connected to each other independent pseudonymous so no one knows how anyone else is right at the exact same time they’re creating simultaneous this is again not totally accurate, but likely to be a simultaneous record of our exchange, they’re indicating i opened up my digital wallet i released, you know, one bitcoin, which is money. And you gave you something very valuable in exchange and you receive it. Okay? And in orderto hack that transaction, you would have to convince thousand computers to change their record. That’s why they’re i was going to ask you, why are there a thousand computers? That’s? Why security? Security? So it means you can see it’s far more secure than a central database that could be easily hacked. Right? Like one source of truth can be hacked very easily. A thousand simon, identical sources of truth are very hard to have. So each of these computers houses the same information. We call it a ledger about our transaction. And this is why we call it distributed ledger technology. And we can do this because my voice keeps cracking like i’m fourteen because because the cost of storage is so dim minimus on the margin that we don’t worry about all this redundancy. I mean, we got a thousand computers with the same in-kind large network with the same data, the same ledger, but but that’s because storage is so cheap. It’s not so. Much storage is so cheap because it’s a method of achieving trust. Right? So if you if you either either you you trust something? Are you trust nothing. And if you trust nothing, then a thousand synonomous computers is about is going to get right. Exactly right. Nobody has an incentive to screw up our transaction record incorrectly. And if they do, if one computer in that thousand computers records a different version it’s competition we spotted almost immediately and there’s a check that happens. What happened? What’s going on there, you know, so it’s very, very hard to hack. It makes it quite secure. How about how about hacking it so that the one becomes the accurate transaction and the other nine hundred ninety nine convert to that that’s computational e-giving possible? Yeah, demographically impossible to do that. Okay, okay. Yeah. So that’s the way it works now latto brand not going to get a ring about it has given it was going to kill it. Ok, i don’t want to know what’s interesting about this, right? So this is the premise of the bitcoin blockchain and of what are called public blockchain but interestingly enough, which are getting are the human impulse, i think, is to say what i want to control something, if i want, if i want, if i don’t trust something, i want to control it, right? So you’re getting a lot of explosion of these permission block chains, which means that you control you know who all the computers are. Basically, are you on, lee? Allow computers that you have kind of vetted into the system. When you do that, it becomes more securely it’s gotta be it’s, kind of like counter involvement words, they don’t know. We don’t know which each other dahna that’s very good that’s, right? Okay, so what’s the oh, what i’ll ask it instead of trying to figure it out, what’s the value of this two non-profits yeah, i think there’s a lot of value to this. So one, i think, in the sort of remittance space in terms of programmatic work, there are a lot of places where, you know, charitable work is done it using remittances using kind of the last mile payments, like problems that have existed for a long time, that we’ve been unable to really have a great solution for there’s a huge problem osili is realized recently through a world bank project there’s a huge problem with charities, certainly in certain kinds of region syria, the kinds of places being unbanked like having no access to bank accounts. And in many of these regions, people are literally taking paper cash into these environments and using it to provide services right, hugely problematic, very unsafe, very risking dangerous activity. If you have a digital wallet it’s that much more secure, right? Like it’s, actually that much harder. Teo, steal that hack it. You can prove ownership using encryption, there’s a lot of other things about it that are better. In these situations and that’s sort of the extreme example is the example we’re seeing a lot of different application level there’s, other completely non currency related applications of blockchain, so one that i think is really critical is digital identity. So this is this comes up a lot in the refugee asylum situations you could imagine a family has to flee in the middle of the night. They can’t bring any of their papers with them there’s no proof of who they are, their citizenship, their credentials, whether medical license, whatever it is that medical records, nothing like that. If all of that we’re on a distributed ledger, it would be security’s, not a paper based system. So so when you think about the application layer where you’re moving away from paper and you’re storing something in a secure manner, but not in some sort of like a database of government, where the government could be corrupt and come in and kind of change things up and disavow it, but in a way that really is truly secure that you own the only entrance key too, like that is very powerful to think about, you know there are we. Know that in homeless encampment, united states leaving aside like this war tor in-kind of regions, even in united states, there’s no accurate record of the homeless population because people who are born homeless often don’t have records, right? And then if you die homeless, there’s no account about this son accurately, in a sense, is acknowledges it’s completely off with that population. Imagine if there were a digital ledger that you could create around that now policy on how you do that is very challenging because it’s not an easy problem to solve, but at least there isn’t a different option. Now for three zsystems exactly exactly for preserving it current once you once you are creating and has overcome the challenge of gathering data, there’s a place to preserve it and the persons data is not vulnerable. Exactly loss or hacking. Okay, okay. Um now one of the articles i read talked about the transparency on dh. The example was a donor giving to a program and tracking progress of that program and then tying her funding two milestones that disease through the blockchain technology through some user interface. I guess the fucking can you help people understand? Better than i just did. What i’m talking about is absolutely so i think that we call the supply chain integration and i get a flow is an example of a supply chain supply chain of cash, but their supply chains of all kinds of things, i think it’s easier to understand that if we think about a supply chain and we’ll take mining as an example, because this i think people really understand this, ok, so and one hundred percent with your analogies. Thank you. I’ll make sure we bring it back to the non-profit but you go ahead. Yeah, so when you think about mining and you think about sustainable practices, right, so people don’t want blood diamonds. For example, there is a international process established called kimberley process that evaluates whether or not i don’t recall the kimberley process so it evaluates whether or not a diamond is mind using fair labor, you know, no child labor and all the things that you actually would care about is a consumer of this diamond and using blockchain technology, those diamonds are actually etched. Can you confirm follow using a combination r f i d e a lot of things and block chain a diamond throughout the entire supply chain from the moment its mind and you can you can certify that the mine itself was done with correct worker conditions, and etcetera are fundamental. Whatever it is, you contract that all the way to the refinery, to the manufacturer, to the retailer to thee. Kayman right, so there is certainty that that specific mineral or metal was taken all the way through, and this applies to other kinds of minerals and metals as well. You could imagine something similar that would apply, teo, you know, cotton or coffee or whatever it is, right? Like you could actually certify that a particular bag of coffee beans was crude was was harvested on a plantation that would that met their labor practices and was organic. And, you know, whatever the things are you care about fair trade certified, you could track that of a supply chain, and you could therefore ensure and give meaning to some of these labels that we don’t actually have any proxy for ascertaining are actually true. Great. So this provides more accountability and transparency because you can track the same good throughout an entire system. Now the same thing is true of aid flows. So a dollar originates somewhere. It’s basically just a supply chain all the way through. So any diversion of that money can actually be tracked. It’s a really interesting question. If you do this in digital currency every time digital currencies exchange there is a record created by definition. It’s not like cass. We’re just kind of khun vanished. There’s no ability for to vanish. It’s. Impossible. Great. So if i give it to you and you give it tio some other intermediary and they suddenly diverted to some corrupt whatever it is that that currency can be tracked so you can create accountability system, you can show that it went to pay your staffer that it went teo, you know, a contract to build the well or whatever it is. You can actually show that. And you can report all that ledger back too. The donor exactly. How does the organization interact with block james with the right to say the blockchain? No, there was no. It depends on a blockchain blockchain. And normally just sabelo depends on how dramatically interesting. You okay, what’s the user interface. That thing with donor and really question sametz finally twenty minutes and i got one good question is, is it okay for the donor and the non-profit? How we interact with? Yeah, this’s one of the challenges right now and it’s one of the reasons there isn’t at this gigantic explosion in use cases, even though they’re theoretical use cases everyone agrees on. People are now in the wake up in the state got started on the stage where this is being developed. When you think about the early internet and everybody was kind of risky, prompted was typing things and whatever that was not accessible. Teo fingering people call this business was not it was not accessible to a lot of people, right? But once you had a graphical user interface that came into play, people could pipe in plain english. And you kind of had with me what you had. What you see is what you get. You have these interfaces that were just more intuitive. You know what? You were wearing a realist. I have george in jail, but i wouldn’t wait. I mean that’s that’s. Well, that’s, not jargon. Ok. Fantastic, i presume. Thanks. I don’t agree with you. I’m fearful that you have low expectations of my understanding. Now go. Okay, okay. All right, well, listen, non-profit lady radio listeners or at least at my level, most of all, most people going with us so that those were all huge innovations enabled the explosion and things like email in google and search engines than whatever, until you had that was very hard to imagine being there, steve jobs is times a thousand, right? Exactly, right? So give it a little time and we’re going to get there and before you know it, we’re not going to talk about blocked it anymore. It’s going to be kind of this thing of the past, right? No, one’s talking about consensus mechanisms are proof of work or bubble it not going to care about any of that we’re going to be like, oh, did you check out your whatever the company is it’s the new facebook, but now built on block chain that we all now can’t live without you. So we’re getting there. We’re getting there. Awesome. All right. You really think you have very good analogy is a very good way of explaining this. Thank you. And thank you. We still have a couple minutes left together. So what more do you want to say? Is there another level we can go to? Ise there a story you want to tell about a non-profit using this technology? What? You know, i got love, yeah, i will say a couple of things, i think that, you know, i would really encourage listeners and anyone, you know, to really think beyond the digital currency example, and so we gave some examples of identity and supply chain and others, you know, there’s, interesting work happening around impact and how charity’s khun demonstrate impact using blockchain and kind of tag metrics. Tio tio not necessary to cash, but to sort of the street planning that goes all kinds of different implications for this technology and really the kind of, like joke in the blockchain nerd of which i am one system is to say, like, when you really start thinking about what this can do, you have these, like, three a m wake ups where you think like, oh, my god, like, you could do that, i could do that, i could do that, and you have to kind of dialling back down and we’re not there yet, you know? So one example, i’m really what got me my three a m moment that got me really hyped about this technology was in criminal justice, something i’m very passionate about and thinking about chain of custody of evidence. So thinking about thie way that evidence gets lost things like rape kits or dna evidence or whatever it might be a chain of custody people exam, and i’m thinking more of in other countries were tortured or vanished, get disappeared, kidnapping or not, it is our most of our institutions are exactly so we’re doing a big project anticorruption work in south america, where we’re thinking about government accountability and transparency and how you can actually work around and mitigate corruption, which is i’m the president in many parts of the world, using this technology because of the ability to track and trace, which is really key. So i think that is where the big innovation is gonna happen. It’s already happening and will continue to happen in this space and the implications, i think, for non-profits are quite quite profound the ability to track and trace something or someone is very, very so. Any objects like you had said the diamond is physically etched. Yeah, i mean, it’s gotta be obviously a pretty small, actually. Dankmyer dahna it is. Okay, so but any physical things, physical evidence in a criminal in a criminal case. Oh, it’s, great kids. A bloody glove, as a random example. Okay, very good. Okay. Uh, out. Forever. Forever. Forever. We will never have treyz we won’t have lost evidence. You’ll know if if it is disappeared, we’ll know exactly at what stage is exactly at what stage disappear. There won’t be a guests there’s no ability to hide, right? And you can mark that that security with like, with a geo look, even geo tag it, you know exactly, literally. Exactly where that thing was that the last recorded exchange of it. Okay. So which is really profound when you think about that, we have about a minute left. What do you love about this work? Not not so much. Not so much of the technology. But what do you love about explaining it to people? I think you know, i think it really is. Ah, i don’t think it’s surprising. How intimidating it it it’s a very intimidating technology, in part because there’s so much media attention about it, the volatility, the currency and then bitcoin millionaires and all this kind of billionaires and all this stuff and and you know it, it’s a community that’s really fascinating. Someone just used bitcoin. I asked you to talk about someone just used going to fund every single every single request that was donorsearch shoes dot org’s every single one got funded overnight, a lot of money, and charles rich asked for it. He couldn’t believe that he got it. Well, it’s also crazy because this is like there’s so much money in this that there are people who are they want to press, like the people that really, really have the money security to hired security. Us. What has this like thug element to it in this history of, like illicit actors in nefarious activity, you know kind of things people mean arms were sold using bitcoin, that the fact people were traffic using bitcoin? That is a fact, all right. And the idea that we’ve moved away from that not saying that is it still happening? Because let’s be candid, it is still happening, right? But that’s not the case for which it was really designed, and most people in this space are not interested in that kind of activity when you think about the shift away in the movement opportunity it’s really exciting to get ordinary people call them, like, lay people aware of this at least at a base level, and to not be afraid of it that i find very rewarding, okay? And like, we no longer fear the internet and automobiles exactly where you wanna go both okay? All right. We got every motive. Transportation? All right, sheila warren. Thank you very much. Thank you for the pleasure. You helped enormously. I’m so glad. She’s, the head of blockchain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum once the article it’s coming up that we should look for, it’ll be april nineteenth and it’s called the decision making till can’t it’ll be on our website? Awesome on our twitter my interview with sheila is sponsored my pleasure by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit medio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we need to take a break, wittner. Cps. You need your nine. Ninety done. Right. You need an audit. Start at wagner. Cps dot com. Look at their services for non-profits. Read a few testimonials. Then pick up the phone and talk to partner. Eat huge tomb. I know him. He’s. Been on the show. He’s. A good guy. You explain what you need. He’ll tell you if they can help you. No pressure, he’s. Not that way at all. Talk to him. Wagner. Cpas dot com is the place to start now. Time for tony’s. Take two. Summer is close, it’s. Time to make time for your time away, including offgrid time. I hope you can do this. You need it. We all need offgrid time. No phone, no email. You know offgrid my encouragement video. Is that tony martignetti dot com good link. Dot com. Listen, i’m a safe too. Looked our founder of good link at goodland. Dot com non-profits connect with businesses that advanced their missions. When i want the best connections i listen to non-profit radio like you are safe. Good link it’s a new marketplace where non-profits meat vendors providing products or services? No cost to you as non-profit it’s, your bridge, your connection to the products and services that you need i’m helping them get started see what you think. Check out good link dot com it’s l i n c now time for a lie hurts and be data driven. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc it’s a non-profit technology conference hosted by the non-profit technology network. We’re coming to you from new orleans convention center there. This interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits. And my guest is you. I hurt he’s, the vice president of information technology at united service organizations. Us. So you lie hurts. Welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you. Thanks for having me welcome. My your your subject is becoming a data driven organization. Why should we? Why should read to make better decisions to do our mission better, more efficiently. B a and teo, to be able to have more impact, you’re confident that this changing culture going to bring about all these good outcome? Yes, yes. If you are you okay? It will there be challenges to get there? Yes, there will be. Challenges to get there isn’t a transition necessary, absolutely, but i’m confident that if and when we navigate those those challenges, the getting there enables better decisions, so we’re able to do our mission more effectively and that’s really what it’s all about, okay, and this does not just apply in the information technology department knows is you know what? This is organization wide. Oh, absolutely matter of fact, i’m glad you asked that tony, because if it only applied to information technology department, we would never get there that’s not how it’s accomplished the my department is about enabling the tools and technology that air the underpinnings, but really getting there and ineffectiveness is on ly when the business used the lines of business, that of performing the mission are asking the questions that are doing the analysis, they have the context they know the right questions to ask on the story that needs to be told it is absolutely not by-laws malefactor tools just one other piece, that the tools are evolving to enable that the so that it doesn’t take a technical person like it did in the past. The tools are being designed so that anyone khun, step up, use um and ask the right questions to get the answers they need. Okay, are we able to talk about some of those fools later on? Sure. Ifyou’d like tio conversing with them. Okay, you know them. Okay, good. Well, i’m guessing if this is going to be a cultural change, the change is gonna come from the top. So ideally so, the way we’re approaching a tony is both a top down and bottoms up approach both simultaneously kind of come out it from two angles, and we think both are necessary. Neither one by itself would would get us all the way there. We are fortunate have a ceo is very technically driven that understands the has the vision of what it can and should do for the organization to be able to make data driven decisions. However, just mandating it isn’t isn’t going to get us all the way there because the ones that are going to make it work are the ones that are going to be working. The tools are maur bottoms up because they’re they’re day today they have the context, they they have the context for the fund-raising with a marketing or the program delivery there of our constituents, and they have a better sense of the business processes and what all the data means so they can ask those questions if they don’t buy-in and have the right inquisitive mind set dahna we won’t get the answers that we want, they want to know more about what they’re doing and what the outcomes are on. And, you know, what successful was not now, of course, you’re coming at it from the uso perspective, but hard now they’re our listeners air over twelve thousand people in small and midsize non-profits sure, so the lessons apply equally, right? You know, nowhere and what i’ve said so far. Did i talk about the mission of us? Owe every single non-profit has a mission to deliver some service or product, mostly a service, for the benefit of of their their benefactors, so really it’s about understanding what their mission is and and they can all equally equally gain from increasing their impact, it’s about increasing the impact based on the insights that you have on the data that you’ve collected or can aggregate nowhere and what i just said that i talk about. The uso mission every single non-profit and benefit from it. Okay, i want to make that explicit. I i know it’s true. Otherwise you wouldn’t be here. But i want metoo explicit for our for our listeners. All right, so ah, a lot of this is around empowerment also. Right? So we’re empowering staff to be asking the challenging questions that data can provide answers to. Yeah. Ok right. Are we empowering? Well, empowering is part of it. Yes. That’s a necessary but not sufficient. Okay, so we have to start. You know it has tohave empowerment. They also have to have access so access to the right data stores. And this means breaking down stone by breaking down stovepipes for silos breaking down paradigms of no, this is this is my thing. And then also learning the skill set and the mindset, skill set and mindset. So the skill set to to manipulate tools which, again are being designed to be always there friendly using some of this technology yourself and then and then the mindset is critical as well. Tony is having that inquisitive mind set to what’s what’s really happening here in my fund-raising in my marketing campaign in a program delivery what’s the underlying what’s the activity that’s happened. Who are the players that are impacting it? And what can i or do? I want to learn to make it better. So it’s that inquisitive mind set this is not we won’t get there by what some folks air more accustomed to is generate some report that says, what happened? That’s just reporting that’s the same, you know, something that you can construct and say point to this was thing that happened, this is about in court inquisitor enquiring mind set and interacting with it. So if i’m listening to this and i’m i’m motivated by what you’re saying, but i don’t yet have the top down or the bottom up, or i guess i’m in the bottom or maybe not right in the middle somewhere sure, or might be at the top. We have ceos who listen also how do i get the other end? Or if i’m in neither end, how do we get both ends to buy into this? Yeah, great question. Well, first, we think is start small and show a little benefit and you can do it relatively relatively easily, relatively. Affordably and, you know, for every non-profit every dollar we don’t spend is a dollar that goes to our our mission, and some of the tools are very affordable and show the way do a little pilot hyre we did a proof of concept, the uso first to say, hey, for very few dollars, this is a kind of insights we can generate and here’s iraq without. What do you think? Wow, this is really given tell the story of your your test because i think i think the example will help, okay, listeners understand, you know what? How do you bite off a little bit of this, like, a little a little bit of what? Where do we start? Yeah, absolutely. So we we had, uh we took data from two of our important or two of our sources that support somewhere big, most impactful business processes. One is financial, so that shows a roll up of our fund-raising how we’re doing on revenue, you know, fund-raising and the other is relatively new data set that that we just deployed a system last year for part of our digital transformation, which was collecting usage metrics of our customers, they check into our centers and way made a digital platform that collects the check in and some of that there some of their demographic snoopy ii, obviously and and we have now about six months of here’s how they and when and how they interact with us and what they think of us and what they like. And these are two data sorts one was just talking about the tools, but one was in the great plains data set which many organisations used, which we exported from report into a csp export, relatively simple stuff. And the other was in a sales force back and data set. And what we did is we used a pretty affordable tool for non-profits microsoft power b i it’s okay to talk about product. Certainly. Yes, i want you to. Yeah. Okay. Super yeah. Which is very affordable for a non-profit handup power b i microsoft power b i business business insight. Because this intelligence argast it’s ah it’s in the gardner magic water and for the last two years is one of the top in the b i space non-profit the cost is very affordable there’s a free version as well. And you can experiment the free version. So what we do is we got a little bit of help because if this does require some different mindset, you know, then then folks have been doing one thing for a long time, so we got a partner for a little bit of help to say, okay, help us bill, do some analysis and build some visualizations in a dashboard that shows what what’s happening in these areas, both from financial progress. Oh, and also for our customer usage, we did it in a month or two, just a few dollars, not much product dollars, and we built visualizations and showed it say, hairs here’s, how we’re being used right now, and it was very, very well received. The insights were kind of ah ha moments. So so what i recommend is start with some existing data stores and and sort of identify first what it is you think will be impactful and then showcasing take it around, say, hey, this is some insights. What do you think? And and if it doesn’t get enthusiasm either learned a lesson from it to say what’s more interesting or perk it, move on to something else. Okay. Okay. Test for value early. Yeah. All right. And in a small bit. Yeah. Small piece. Okay, awesome. Ah. All right. So then what? What? What’s, the next step in this you don’t change this culture. So let’s say we get some approval. Okay? This this is pretty stark and i can see some value. Um, otherwise the interview’s over. So we better remove this phone way. We’re not taking the park and move on to something else. Option forget move on. Yeah, what? Where do we go from here now? We with our test results. So where we’re going is an operational pilot and recalled an operation pilot, so because we’re adding a little more funding and setting the setting the goals of a little bit hyre but we’re also not in the same breath, not institutionalizing it yet. So we’re going to expand the number of data stories that we bring in on then here’s the other key, tony, is what we’re also going to do since the product and microsoft power b i again is the one we’re using. It is b is designed so for someone that’s in the line of business, the development department of marketing department, the program delivery, not the geeky tech person it’s not designed for that person is designed so that those that a former that i mentioned can learn how to use it. So we’re rolling out training at the same time, we’re going to take him through here’s how to use the tool and here’s the art of the possible, and let them loose and let them loose on the data, and also let them see, you know, some of the additional products, visualizations and, more importantly, the insight that comes out. We’ll let that run for a while. Say, you know, show us how it’s changed your ability to perform your mission. Okay? Yeah. And where are you in this process? So we finished the proof of concept on we go and let’s see january, late january or february on we look at it for a little bit and were actually just going to start up our operational pilot, which will be a six week effort with some some assistance. We’re gonna start that up in several weeks. So by this summer for april thirtieth. So okay, here a couple weeks away from taking the next step. Will spend about six weeks building it up, and then we’ll look at it for a bit. How do you figure out what what the data is? That is most important for the organization? Well, we’re starting with, you know, the the kp eyes that are most dahna most impactful and most important for insight and that’s a, uh, you know, that’s a that’s, quite frankly, a lift and shift of current reporting. Two more digitised on dh that’s sort of a stepping stone, because these with kp eyes that dahna that air that leadership needs teo, understand where we’re going and where we are, but again that’s ah that’s a stepping stone. So it’s also going to relieve some pain? Because, quite frankly, you know, the other way of doing the reporting takes a lot of time, and a lot of resource is, which is time and resource is to be better well spent by those down the chain of command that have to do all that every organization has that, but instead of we’re goingto automate that enhance it, enhance it, and let me touch another key point because what we can do that can’t be done as effectively as connect the dots across data silos for combined visualizations that tell amore comprehensive story, the whole organization, right, especially the sea level, is interested in that sea level. And we think every yes, but not just to sea level and again that’s a stepping stone, because what comes next and the rial golden ring is ah, and well, we will have accomplished a lot by that intermediate step, which is much more efficient, comprehensive reporting and visualization. But the real golden ring and the next step it is doing predictive analytics and being able, teo asked questions of the data by interacting with him. So there’s a k p i reporting this is the important stuff we need no for how the business is going that’s again, the next step and once it’s all in place and folks get comfortable with it, say, well, i could really ask some questions. You know what i haven’t thought about? Fill in the blank. You know how our current trend is from a predictive analytics perspective, our fund-raising is happening over time or what is the impact if we change these variables? You khun, you could do all of that once. You’re in the platform and uncomfortable. Okay? Got to take a break. Tell us i have a new tell us. Moughniyah lll. Lead quote. Lee elementary school foundation is receiving a monthly donation from tello’s for the credit card processing of a company one of our parents owns is likely the easiest donation source we have ever secured. End quote. A parent’s company. That’s. Brilliant local companies taking credit cards. Do you need more revenue? Get started at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now back to be data driven with eli hurts. Let’s talk about the challenges of doing this. You brought him up earlier. I want to come back to it. Sure. Uh, what what? What should we expect? Yeah, well, there can be some and actually just came from aa good session, where we had this same discussion and with a group full of non-profits and it was it was really it was it was a really wonderful conversation. It became a conversation and of the same topic. And one of the challenges is that one of the non-profits brought up is hey, what if you know your shot in the light on something? That’s? That is kind of a hard story that, you know, has projects bad news where you have been visualized way have start asking questions. We may not always like the answer. You might not like the answer, and what we would suggest is that we shift the focus away from the who, which is can be a tendency if you see something responsible who’s responsible who hasn’t been doing their job who’s been falling short and and shift it more towards the what and what’s the impact on the on the mission than everybody circles around. You know, the conversation about how do we improve the mission based on what we learned, not who’s not been doing their job effective. So it’s changing the conversation based on the insights? Okay, so that that’s one is that the kind of fear three other has changed management? You know, i’ve been doing it this way for a long time, and this is what i was hired to do. So, like many classic change management problems or channel opportunities, it’s about education that can be circumvented with education and finding a few folks that were shown successes with him by doing it a different way with a different tool, shining the light on them and say, hey, this is an early adopter. Look what they were able to dio you could do something similar in your position will help you do that. You mean drawing on the early testing that you did well early? Six it continuing success is its a continual process. Let me give you a specific example. We did the proof of concept way showed the platform the possible everybody, not their head sea level, sweet like that. Others looked at it. Xero but can i do this to answer a question i need to do? And we identified one of those one of those this i really need to tell this toe understand this and tell this story better one just as i’m sure you know, when i tell say, tell the story, it’s obviously not about creating fiction, but it’s about painting the picture what’s going on, and so we identified that person who’s, not technologically savvy didn’t need to be we didn’t create it, so he needed to be that’s the point, and we’re helping him build something so that he can answer that question and expose. That so we could make better decisions. So we built on that success. This is, before we build out the operational pilot way found somebody else who has came to us because they heard about the success, the operational pilot or sort of proof of concept said, hey, i need another answer here. So, you know, we incrementally show successes, leverage some of these early adopters and their successes in trying to bring some skeptics along. Exactly okay, yeah, now the rial on dh so the following we haven’t accomplished yet, tony, i’ll just say that for what i’m about to say, but a study of change management and you’ve probably heard many of the folks you interview talk about it from and one of the best yeah, disciplines. I’ve been through his pro side change management certification encourage it for any non-profit listener is the best three days i’ve ever spent. Tell me again what it is a pro side p r o s c i change management three day certification class and it covers the breath of technology is what one piece of it it’s really about change management? Okay, but if you really but to go get to the next level. So some of things i’ve talked about or some sort of the classic change management techniques what’s, really a strong accelerator is to find a skeptic allowed skeptic on someone who’s yeah, so till happen, you know, if you’re not watching the video, you maybe i can tell i’m laughing. All right? So you probably last on somebody there? Well, i work for myself, but i have in the end, everybody got clients that whatever somebody who’s allowed skeptic, we’ll leave it at that. All right? Yeah, yeah. So every organization sufficient? Yeah. On dh who’s sort of maybe established will say yeah, so they have some credibility in the organization and they’re also established with the way they were used to doing things. If you make that person and advocate, they will amplify the successes to the same degree that they amplified their skepticism. Now that’s the breast, that’s, the it’s dueled brass ring. Yeah, back to your mary-jo exactly, but it’s it’s a it’s a huge accelerate an amplifier so it can be done. But instead of avoiding that skeptic, use um, empathic techniques understand why they’re they’re skeptical. Remember? Well, trying to embrace them train, embrace, understand what they need and then help them. And if they flip and you got maybe a fifty fifty chance i’ll be really but if and when they flip and then the rest the organization, by the way, everybody, when i said that they know who the organization skeptic is, right? Everybody knows so when the organisation sees a skeptic that’s a believer katie bar the doors everybody’s in, so okay. Okay, way exhausted the challenges. Well, one other, you know, is just learning the learning a new approach. It’s a different mindset. So, you know, that’s more, much more the emotional side of the psychological side of change in management. Well, you know, those pieces just address, but there’s also some some, you know, functional skills. Oh, the skills. Yes, you get skillsets the mindset skillsets so i spoke to a willingness to take on new skill and the ability. So it’s it’s a different way of operating it’s about, you know, the science behind data science is about exploring and experimenting and asking questions and telling a story. Eso again, a lot of us, you know, and many parts organizations say, hey, bill, be a report that shows nothing fund-raising how much you know how many impressions were on the website or whatever? How many times are programmers using a report? You know, it’s more of a diagnostic or reporting this is what happened? And they say, here’s, what happened? But what this cannon and get to with a different skill set is ask some questions on dh, interact with it, tio, connect the dots, teo answer answer, tell the story of what’s really going on versus saying what? What happened? Okay, eli, i want to talk about some of the tools that way because we just have a couple minutes left, okay? Uh, tools that can help with this with this process, yeah, yeah. So one i wrote, we use and and we’re having very good success with it is microsoft power b i mentioned and that’s the primary one now the other is, you know, the benefit of it is the tool is it can integrate and interact with the data wherever it is, so you don’t have to create something new, leave it in place and integrated. There are a few, you know, competitors in the place in the in the space. That’s the one we’re getting no success, we’ve put a lot of our operational data and a sales force back end, which we built up for several reasons and integrating it in on dh and again, others and data in place. So those those are some of the primary ones the sales force haven’t add on for this kind of data introspection, they do, they do they call it einstein analytics, einstein yeah, and sales force just recently, we’re recording this in april of twenty eighteen they just recently perp made a purchase of another integration product called mulesoft so they’re going to integrate that product so that in their analytics engine they can pull in other data sources, which is really important fan letters because a lot of systems have been built up as here’s, my tool or data set based on what’s happening in this piece of the process and really to tell the comprehensive picture is about connecting the dots so you won’t be able to pull in from several sources. So salesforce’s getting has that capability and einstein analytics with mulesoft added tio okay, we have just about a minute or so left and i want to ask you what is it? You know, vice president of information technology. Yeah, yeah. What is it you love about the work you do? Oh, great question. Thanks for asking. People don’t think about it. It is a lovable, lovable office toe working, let alone lead. Yeah there’s a little maytag repairman have the successive nobody’s angry, right? Yeah, when i really like about is we’re rolling out capabilities that are that are making a everybody’s every employee’s job better, more effective cut across the hall organise a cross organization and we feel that we can make them more efficient by either the systems where the insights they get that gives lifts to the entire organization. We’re also changing the way we’re we’re interact with our constituents or service members were rolled out a mobile app. Recently go the apple or google play and download the usl app it’s really gratifying to know that weekend engage with our customers in away reach him where they are dahna but really it all rolls back to we can make the mission more effective, and if we can save a dollar while we’re doing it and then as a non-profit we’re serving. Our service members are constituents more effectively and that’s. Gratifying. Are you a vet? I am. Yeah, i am too. Well, thank you for your support. Thank you. You thank me. First what service? I was in the navy about you turning air force air force. Okay. We so we should have a little rivalry going on here. Very friendly, though. Of course. Eli hurts. He’s, the vice president of information technology for united service organizations uso this interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you very much. Thank you. To you know pleasure. Thanks. Thanks. And this is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. Thank you so much for being with us next week. Change agents on your board and more from the non-profit technology conference. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Durney dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Show social media is by susan chavez, and this very cool music is by scott stein. We will be next week for non-profit radio. 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Nonprofit Radio for April 20, 2018: Strategic Alignment

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Dennis Miller: Strategic Alignment

Dennis Miller wrote “The Power of Strategic Alignment,” his third book, because he’d seen too many nonprofits expend time, energy and money without achieving the success they hoped for. He wanted to turn that around. (Originally aired April 11, 2014)






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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s for twenty pot smokers unite! Oh, i’m glad you’re with me i’d be thrown into kenna phobia if you try to smoke me out with the idea that you missed today’s show strategic alignment. Dennis miller wrote the power of strategic alignment, which was his third book because he saw too many non-profits expending time, energy and money without achieving the success they hoped he wanted to turn that around. This originally aired april eleventh twenty fourteen i’m tony steak, too thank you, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us here is a huffing and puffing dennis miller. I’m very pleased now to welcome dennis miller. Dennis c miller is a consultant and executive director of fairleigh dickinson university’s center for excellence. He spent over twenty five years as a health care executive and achieve the status of fellow in the american college of health executives face-to-face in italy, in italian fundchat is not very not very complimentary, so we’ll skip the italian it’s f a c h e he’s, a regular columnist for the non-profit times he’s at d c, miller associates, dot com. And on twitter he’s at np board therapy he’s breathing heavily because he rushed to get here, which i appreciate very much. Dennis miller, welcome back. Thank you, tony. Nice to be here. The pleasure. And were in the studio this time last time. We were at the westchester afb. That’s, right? Several years ago is probably three. Well, yeah, three years ago or so, roughly less traffic on dh. Yeah. Understand? Yes. That was much easier to just walk from your booth over where i was doing the interviews. All right. But since then, you’ve written another book. Yes. Your third? Yes. On strategic alignment. Yes. What is the problem? Why was her book? So why did you do it? I haven’t worked with so many non-profit clients. I realize that in spite of their commitment to the mission ah, and their overall commitment to the sector that many just struggled to. Engage the board and struggle to succeed and so haven’t done numerous board assessments and organizational assessments. I realized too, that in terms of difficulty of having everybody line that the traditional strategic planning process needed to be shook it up and have a new way forward and that’s my concept of strategic alignment, okay? And what is it that we’re, uh, we’re hoping to align? Well, basically, it says it sounds simple, but it’s it’s very challenging any organization or any individual has tohave a wheel vision for the future. Oftentimes we think of vision is just a vision statement, it hangs on the wall or in some book, and we don’t pay attention to it. It’s absolutely crucial that we have a vision for you want to go to and then have all the stakeholders internally and externally align with that and that’s usually not happening, okay? And and those stakeholders who are we talking about? Well, certainly internally we’re talking about the leadership team on the board of directors, the trustees will care about the volunteers we’re talking about the staff and externally was certainly talking about the donors and any other government or appointed officials or keep people in the community that want to be involved in the organization it’s a very important have everybody aligned and it’s also not just alignment, but also very important to understand today when there’s a whole new set of conferences in nontraditional skillsets that leaders and board members have tohave okay, that’s interesting on, and i think we’ll have time to talk about some of those, uh, competencies and expertise that are required. I’m so it really is possible you’ve seen this, it can happen that all these internal and external stakeholders constituents can can actually focus in and pursue the same direction it does happen. I mean, i’ve been to experience it with all of my clients wrestling to pass certainly a couple years that i’ve been at this for quite a long time ah, whole new concept of actually spending a lot of time up front really doing an assessment of the organization and knowing not just its strengths, but obviously it’s areas for best practice improvement, not a swat analysis, which kind of leaves you with an empty feeling of what two d’oh swat swat is the strength sprint leading opportunity, threat, suasion, threats it was the old traditional way of people doing a strategic plan assessment. But at the end today it was like so now what do i do with this? From my point of view, it’s about now is getting to know what you are but helping them happen. The leader’s helping aboard, helping everybody understand that today’s compasses they’re very different as example. Okay, you know, usually in the past and executive rector was high because of either they’re good program skills, the ability, the right grant, good community relationships and their passion for the mission or dedication to it. Today the compasses for a good leader and the non-profit are very different today. Ceo stands for chief entrepreneurial officer. You have to be the one who helps make things happen. You have to be building relationships. You have to have a visionary view. You have to be able to build relationships and build your brand. You have to be able to communicate your success and talk about your achievements. You have to find opportunities to collaborate with it’s a very different opportunity to be passively waiting for things to happen and hoping they dio for actually making them happen. That’s a different today’s leadership, you know, interesting. Uh, chief, entrepreneurial officer? Yes, i believe that. So even large organizations, i’m used to work out good size hospitals. Yes, they still a tally stick the leadership, but maybe even trickling down. I need to be entrepreneurial. I think at every level, i think that again, i mean, i’ve been in the nonprofit sector or having worked for non-profits sector even as a corporate executive freedom from thirty years here, now that we have to think of ourselves with a different mentality that we have to think of ourselves, not as non-profit, which i think is a negative term was realizing that non-profit is our tax that is not our business plan. And in order to succeed and have a mission, i think you have the balance up mission in margin. But it is very important today to be focused look differently in terms of how you getting your revenues to often we’re so dependent on government and state public funding. It’s not there, and we’re going to a panic is our opportunity to build programs that are impactful tohave people want invested it and that’s kind of what my book describes i’ve had another ceo say the exact same thing about non-profit being our tax status, not our business mentality, not our mindset, right? It tends to create sort of ah hand to mouth. Yeah, and i think it was because i hate to use the word, but there’s almost a sense of, um, self fulfilling prophecy that we go around talking about. Maura non-profit well, then you’re going to end up not making a profit. If you have no profit, you can’t steer it back in the organization moving forward here. I’m fully aware of the challenges that is, but i think you have to think very differently today and leadership must be a really different kind of skill set than they were in the past that looks like you could use a drink of water after this walk, so go ahead, allah, i’ll frame this question long enough to give you a chance to take a sip, okay? We’re sharing the full experience with listeners who wanted it it’s actually a little traffic on route eighty today, coming from jersey, i’m normally not a problem and three lanes going down the one was not it was not that was not. Good, but you got here i got here. I got you feeling all right now i feel great right over here. Okay, i’m glad to be here, but you feel okay. I feel great, actually. But i’m glad to be here. I feel good. All right, good to see you and say i’m thank you. Thank you. All right. We’ve got some obstacles to overcome now, though, if if we’re going to be aligning people to a common mission and vision vision let’s say vision there’s going to be a lot of compromise people people don’t especially on the external means the external constituents that you mentioned sometimes boards, volunteers sometimes they’re not so willing to be ah, compromising well, i think it’s really one of the great things about our country is obviously the tremendous matter of volunteerism, people committing to volunteer, being on boards here, and certainly the great philanthropic effort of people in this country. But i think in terms of so many of us and i say myself included the former, you know, ceo of major companies sometimes do not do a good job of really identifying for bored what we want him to dio we don’t discuss the issue about financial resource commitment at the time of bored recruitment and the role of the board of dramatically changing and oftentimes boards like i didn’t know that i wasn’t sure that was going on what’s my role here and i use the expression of sometimes, you know, people leave their sense of humor and intelligence at the door. When you go into a board meeting in yesterday, they’re all the board was certainly beyond found it was the fiduciary role which was very important overseeing fiscal policy, finances, budget investments, budget personnel, then boards evolved and became one strategic and business like everybody had to have a business plan strategic plan, but the day really mature board has to be a leader in partner with your ceo, it has to have a sense of of ownership and has have a sense of being active kapin actively response for making things happen, not just watching them happen, and so that today the wall with a boredom in alignment is very different. Yeah, how does that board fit into this entrepreneurial latto well, it’s crucial because the board has to think well out tomorrow as well as an example, i have an organization that right now for years struggled to have a new executive director. Who’s done a great job, but the board was kind of passive. The board didn’t expect toe, you know, beyond making a contribution of helping out today’s new board they have is energetic, its leadership as new ideas is making relationships with other people here is bringing people table it’s, telling their story, it’s getting people excited about what they do. The board’s role is very different today. It’s not just passive. Instead, because you liked emission or care about the mission, you have to want a wool api sleeves and kind of bring it to the table. And you mentioned this. This organization shin that excuse me where the board turned over that’s ah that’s. Ah, lengthy process though. It’s. Not easy. I mean, you know, many of us, you know, we get we identify with our organizations and we could become attached to them and it’s. Very difficult. But as i say to people all the time, you know, good organizations evaluate their chief executive, great organizations. They violate their selves and their own border performance. And that’s kind of what? I do a lot of but it’s really important to help them along don’t listen, they’re out, they’re all good people, but we often times it’s just sort of stuck in the rut and you don’t really have to be more helpful to the organization. We’re going to go out for a short break and when we come back, of course, dennis miller is goingto dennis miller and i were going to keep talking about strategic alignment, so hang in there, it’s time for a break pursuant. Do you know what they do? Besides all the valuable free resource is i talk about their a full service fund-raising team they will help you make sense of your data, your existing data, they do creative, they can help you with donor acquisition that could make your digital fund-raising bring in more money, which is talking about email strategy and they do execution, they don’tjust not just lay something out, and then you gotta execute it on your own. It doesn’t work like that, they do it landing pages ceo ecm google adwords, facebook, google twitter ads this they don’t only exist online, though they will also help you thrive off line. Um, they do creative. If you need help with fund-raising, they are a a full service fund-raising team that’s them it’s all in tony dot m a slash pursuant to radio now back to dennis miller and strategic alignment. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, dahna i. Before we go any further, i wantto correct dennis’s earl. He has a new one that that i was not aware of. Dennis, c miller, dot com it’s launching tomorrow and associates are out the door. Absolutely so don’t go to dennis, don’t don’t even think this email social still taking a dynasty, miller, back-up but the tagline, revitalizing non-profit board. Okay, we’ll go directly, go, dennis, similar dot com. Okay, thank you, tony, my pleasure. Okay, our board. You know, we spent a lot of time on this show talking about boards. The board is going to be sort of, you know, they’re they are part of the leadership, and we need leadership to implement this very important vision statement because we’re all going to be strategically aligned to the common vision. We need to have leadership to create this vision. Absolutely. I mean, it’s, i think, you know, in the old days, it was the board that set the vision and they wanted someone to implement it, which was the old title executive record than it has to be done in partnership people to have to own it. So certainly the ceo has to be integral part of setting that vision with the board here. But the difference is today the board has to have a responsibility for making sure that vision it achieved and what would be the measure progress towards what are we going to do? What do i have to do? Is aboard, mate? What can i do? It turns of my own role here. One of them frequent things mentioned to me during a board assessment is many times boardmember. Don’t feel is engaged with the organizations they like on dh that’s a common thing on what’s really falls on onto the shoulders of is the board chair or bored present? Whatever the terms and the ceo have to find a way toe seek thie individual talent that each person has and find the way to engage them in this process. Some people are sort of involved with social medium walking find a way to tap into them other people more involved in community relations, the community find the way to engage you board the board has to be engaged on an emotional level. I too, want to achieve that vision. That’s the excitement, that’s the thing that makes things happen is betting yourself and continuing improve yourself. So you’re there to provide the mission for your organization. You make the point in the book that leadership is how you make people feel. Well, i i do say this year i mean, ah it’s a long time ago working different people here. I say all the time that you know people as a leader, people will often forget what you said. I’ll forget what you did but to always remember how you made him feel. And i think one of the mistakes that many people make it the top of leaders at the top is they think they could do it by themselves. They don’t realize they need a team to do it. So it’s, very crucial in my first book, a guy to achieve new heights of four pillars let’s accept non-profit leadership. I describe obviously the characteristics of a good leader which really four basic things. A phenomenal ability to build relationships inside the outside organization, but to be built trust respect amongst all the employees is they have to have my field. You care to make sure there’s a person in charge number chill. You have to be able today not only to be passionate emissions, you have to be able to communicate your achievements and your success. You have to tell your story and some case you have tto pound your chest a bit more than the normal, very different part of leadership. How would you like to see this? The assessment process and the and the strategic planning process? I should say be different. Yeah, well, what i recommend is this year and, i mean i certainly do a lot of them, but i mean, anybody who’s sort of who’s, talented and sort of organizational development, organization of psychology or things like that. First, what you want to take a look at the organization sends information as a physician would take a look at history and physical x rays of blood work before they did any thing you want to take a look at, you know, just get familiarize yourself. What are the financial statements or what do the annual report select what’s the market communication what the information is going on here, number two, you want to be able to schedule face-to-face confidential meetings with preferably all members of the board and key leadership team and ask open ended questions and they range from not just on how long you been on the board, but on a scale of one to ten how effective do you feel the board is today? Ah, if it celestine of certain, i’m asking why we’re getting to some of that board self assessment that you mentioned earlier, not just valuing the ceo, but valuing themselves. Yeah, and evaluating their perspective on the organization too. How do they feel? About the committee structure, are they involved in the committee? Is our committee structure is your vision well, it’s amazing when you ask questions, tony, a board members about tell me what your mission is, and they describe it pretty quickly and they’ll be asking what your vision is. They say they repeat the mission and oftentimes organizations because we’re all caught up in the alligators, all caught up in fighting the day. Did they battles? Battles? We often don’t have a vision and it’s the one thing that will propel you forward more than anything else toe having a vision for your organization that everybody believes in. And then every activity, every activity of the ceo, every activity, the board, every activity of the program, every activity banning stretch everything is geared towards achieving that vision and constantly moving forward. That’s a big step for boards. We have to be very conscious of measuring our success toward the vision. Yes, we have. We have vision. And then we have mission and then goals steps to achieve that mission. These all need to be measured. Duvette, this is part of the self assessment. Absolutely. I remember back in my early days or, you know, being a president of a large hospital and new jersey and the vision when i got there was to be the best comedian hospital jersey and was like, what does that mean? How would you know the the best camin hasta mary-jo xero and so often times peoples in the non-profits activision statements are you had to be the premier behavior health care system to be the premier human service. Argast but how do you measure that so poor? The idea is, how are you measuring your progress? Are you achieving? If you cannot demonstrate you making progress toward division, then you really haven’t done a good job. So it’s really crucial is part of the assessment asked those questions, and he has a question that i think everybody should be asking their borders. How does i ask this altum as a boardmember how do you measure organizational success? Well, how do you measure the board success? And it’s it’s, a stimulating conversation is a little bit provocative, but that is so crucial to get him think a little bit differently than the challenges they face every every day here and that’s just kind of what? We talk, what do people typically say? They don’t say they say, well, we measure the bottom line, you know? We’re still we’re still open was still wanting, you know, the door’s not closed, that kind of thing, but it’s kind of a sad commentary when you measure your success, just affect whether you’re still open in business and, yeah, that threshold it’s a very low bar doubled, and i think, honestly, it’s it’s, not a question that we often ask you and i think it’s one one of my books, maybe the second book to non-profit bought their books, i’ll get confused there’s so many about that just i can’t remember what i said in my first book of my third buy-in but well, i described this year i said, can you imagine this scenario at a board meeting? I want to call the meeting to order. Okay, tony motion approved a minute, sam. Seconds it ok, let’s, go on their first item agenda. Let’s talk about why we exist. What’s our real purpose. Why do we exist? What’s. And it sounds like come on, we got more thought. That’s. A really good question asked. I also did it. I did it. Work shot once really was funny. In hindsight, it was not funny. Ah, the organization wanted to raise a million dollars. Now i didn’t want fund-raising in my early days than i do now. But i have a lot of relation with people here. And i told you because anything we’re not ready to raise any significant money. But they asked me if i would do we treat on fund-raising. And when i got to retreat, my first questions it wass, could you tell me what your top two achievements were last year? And it was just dead silence in the room. It was dead. Silence. Follow-up waded our budget. There was no one cares. Following a woman. The back room says we do this program called pals p a l s a stands for peace. An alternative learning system. So what does that says? We teach young children who have been subjected to either sexual assault with domestic violence. Howto build trust relations with people again. That’s. Phenomenal. How do you communicate that? You stay cold. Us? They said we don’t do a good job. But that’s. Why having trouble raising money? Only one person in the retreat there’s, a border treat only one person identified pals as a as a success from the previous year, so they’re not even communicating it within themselves. Exactly. And i don’t think where it’s not part of the the dna so many non-profits not to be focused on achievement it’s focusing on the mission by itself. Here, don’t get me wrong. I’m a merry mission focus guy thinks it’s crucially important it’s why i have dedicated my life to helping non-profit organization very passionate about it, but you have to be nowadays achievement driven results driven. Why is that important? Well, because i want it because it’s a good process to have but two funders investors today, donors alone, institutional and person, but they want to make a difference, and i mean just similar to someone wanting to invest in the stock down on wall street and see the return philanthropic people of very range from small donors so large they want to know what you’re doing with it. They want to know, are you making a difference? And you have to some way be able to communicate them to different you’re making plus when you talk about your achievements when you talk about your success, it changes the mindset, i believe, for board members to think to go away from fund-raising i described a tin cup theory where you feel like you begging for your needs, and he began to have a conversation about talking about your achievements and your success. Now the concept becomes, are we do we think we need to have investors in our success? The answer is yes, so it changed the mindset from talking about what we need is an organization just to keep going to what we are achieving and wanted to continue those successes, no steps, it’s very different. This all means that we’ve got to ask very hard questions because we’re going to have to identify metrics, yes, they’re goingto that we’re goingto review and and report on at at the board to our stakeholders. As you’re saying, they demand it, you know? And we might not always like what those numbers have to say first asking the hard questions and then getting the answers that may not always reflect what we what we’d like them to month after month, quarter after quarter, and not only that, i remember doing a sort of a focus group, part with employees group that i was doing strategic plan within, i asked, was a behavior health care organization, which is a lot of work, and i asked this group, you know, how many counseling sessions do you do in a year and the one of the top executives and well, they don’t know that because we don’t give that information? Well, the whole point of the strategic alignment is that every employee, every level has to be a line with your organization goals, their individual goals have to be in line with your goals, and and people need information. So not to have this information is sort of making a disconnect between your organization goldenburg individuals is very important that everybody get involved. I would hope that’s a number that everybody can be proud of, and if it’s not, then we all need to work together to make it a number were perhaps aly and when people focus and on, you know, progress and success and measurement, it’s not about holding people the punish people, but and is more than just accountability, it’s having something to strive for in life we always feel better when we’re striving for something and it’s important as an organization to think differently, that about poor me, you know, we don’t have any money from the government. What are we going to do but today’s, you kind of make it happen and there’s a responsibility that it can’t happen, organizations at every level and every type can succeed with a news conference. E of leadership would a new skill set of the board would a with a passion to achieve your vision with measurable records of success or a point of success, and everybody being held accountable and and measuring you performs accordingly. It’s fun! A different challenge. We’re going to fund all this. So it’s, sort of a perfect leading to what you were just driving. We need to have ah plan for for bringing in the money to create all this. Well, you know, but i think you have to start with something different. I mean, waffen times. We start with a fund-raising playing which involves something like this year and it’s. A little it’s. A little funny, but i go like this are a typical development committee is like, okay, let’s call the meeting to. Order. All right, ho. We’re going onto this year at a gala. Ah, we honored him last year. Two years ago where you want her so we can honor who’s got a chair or golf committee? Who kind of a wine tasting is, you know, how much is going to cost? How much money can we bring in? And then we talk about well, anybody go over the major prospects that we were signed at last week’s meeting or less much meaning to talk about anybody approaching any large givers and the silence in the room. And then the development chair says, well, you know, let’s ah, let’s put that let’s table that till more people come to the meeting next week. Let’s not talk about the table settings for the gala. We have a different mindset that people just not engaged. They’re terrified of fund-raising they’re afraid of rejection. We have to think differently. You got to start with a case was support. Why? Why? With someone investing you? Why should be worthy of a gift? You gotta start with that process and then then the true. What is the difference? Your gift will make what’s the difference. And then number three, obviously the various ways to people can give, but you have to have a more comprehensive fund-raising plan today. Yes, special events important, i call them friendraising besides just fundraisers, oftentimes the fundraiser is an end to itself. It needs to be beginning. We need the cult of any people besides your annual pill, but people are the ones that give the overwhelming eighty percent of of money in this country and people there’s money out there. People will invest in you if you tell him about who you are. If you show them your excitement, if you show them your energy was showing what you’re doing, there will be people in your community at every level. Did they want to support you? But if you come across with a tin cup theory begging for money because if you don’t go on a business, it’s a very unappealing process and you’re going to be stuck in the mud. But your first question that you’re suggesting asking of donors you know why? Why should you give you asking it internally so that you can answer it extremely washing to give to the organization that goes back to these? Hard questions that we’re now asking and we have presumably we have metrics that say here’s, the reason to give because because we’re impacting, we’re changing, we’re impacting lives were not just not just having therapy sessions, but here’s here we prevented six suicides last year, actual and hundreds of cases of depression were were treated, and people got jobs that were largely unemployable because of their depression and right, i mean, this is the why, how many people that have been homeless, but not because we’ve developed a collaboration with behavioral unit are now ending the cycle of homeless was ending the cycle of depression, ending the cycle of mental health issues that’s so they can sustain employment or sustained family integrity. These are things we need told that’s what people want to hear. So again, it’s a very different mindset and part again of my process, strategic alignment is putting is assessing where you’re at looking at the piece of you put together and giving a plan of action to it and it’s all again really, tony about execution, okay? We’re gonna get the execution. I mean, we’ve got all this in line, and we’ve talked a little. About our our funding plan. Anything well, is anything more you want to say about the funding part of it before we get teo execution, i just think it’s really important to ah, um, make sure that everybody’s on board with that and what i, um here’s what i here’s what i want from my boards, okay? I would very few exceptions and i’m not talking about, you know, billion dollar boards metre palm zem award. Ok, very high level princessa university and stuff like that. What you really kind of want is i don’t want my boardmember is really asking for money, honestly, because they’re going to ask for to load you don’t know how to do it. I want my board to help me identify two or three prospects every six months. People today can help me have an introduction to breakfast mean, they can come on a tour of our facility. I want boardmember is help me build relationships. I will do the asking or will work as a team and building a strategy for that, but i really want my board to take on a different role on that and and that’s, just a border had how to be asking for money? It’s much deeper than that. We need to take a break for wagner cpas. They’ve got the wagon. Are i exhort you to check this out? Prepare your nine. Ninety for success. If you’re one of the fortunate organizations that has enchanted year after year to complete the full nine ninety not that sap lis easy or the end postcard. Then listen to the wagon. Are it includes common mistakes and most damaging mistakes. I wish i had heard this inviting the high school. I made so many mistakes. Yeah. Oh, i have a terrible crush on her. So my strategy is going to be ignore her that way. She’ll never come around and she’ll never know. You want to avoid those damaging mistakes. Also, how to use your nine. Ninety is a marketing tool. That was you. Eat. Who was on the show? August fifth, august seventh twenty fifteen. All this is that wagner cpas. Dot com go there. Quick resource is than wagon ours. Now time for tony steak too. Thank you for indulging several p recorded and archive shows in a row. I do. Thank you, it’s. Not the way that i prefer to deliver. Non-profit. Radio to you to produce it that way, but there are times when i don’t have any choice, i want you to know that i am conscious of it. I don’t just do it, um, you know, because i have not, you know, because i don’t feel like producing a live show, it’s, not like that at all. The archives in the pre recordings. I know you know, where they’re very good, but live has that special energy, and i know it. I feel it. I prefer live it’s, always my first choice. I’m always trying to do that, but i do live in two different places now, and we had non-profit technology conference and i was away other weeks, so i couldn’t do it. But next week, next week will be live and again, i thank you for this stretch that has not been live. Thank you very much for your indulgence. I thank you so much that i want to go to the love the live listener love, thank you, not just thanks love love goes out to the live listeners, the perennial live listeners, or if you’re a first time live listener or for an occasional drop in live listener like ohio, michigan don’t know well zoho together rust belt now that’s, that’s pretty much that i can think of. We get occasional pennsylvania, but it’s it’s more like philadelphia. So wherever we went with your first time or perennial, the live love goes out to you and the podcast pleasantries on the time shift on the different devices where ever you are. Where you painting a house, washing dishes, driving subway bus? Are you binge listening? Ah today’s for twenty you maybe binge listening to the four twenty show, perhaps under the influence? I don’t know whatever, whatever you’re doing, whatever your methodology is pleasantries to you, our podcast audience and the affiliate affections, so grateful that our show is on your am or fm station and so grateful that you are listening as part of it affections to ur am and fm listeners now we return to strategic alignment you were you were nodding and and well, it’ll but what time? Well, we did take time and not too long ago i go to a ruber annually on and that was out in california southern california masson got married. So it’s eighty five degrees out there. Well, as you all know, we went through a horrible winter this year. Thank god it’s springtime thank god it’s april, i don’t see any snow on the ground. I hope there’s no more coming in, but it was very tough. Went for people. But i agree with you also that it is crucial for every one of us to take some time for ourselves and both either with family and friends or just heimans wafer, you need to try either we recharge well, everybody’s working so hard it’s, so difficult for so many people. So many organizations has just struggle who are really good people. So you need some time away to kind of refreshing recharge your batteries school. Thank you for that endorsement. It’s. Good time. That retreat sometimes good time for a retreat. Well, that’s work though. Ah, a board retreat, but could be it could be energizing should be energizing. Ok. Should be energizing should be like. Okay, well, that’s, the way we should be having fun way, right it’s still work, but we can have fun but it should be fun. I mean, if it’s not fun, it should be fun. That means hard work. But it should be fun. Absolutely. I’m making a difference in the life of someone else. It should be fun. You’re absolutely right. It’s. Healthy there’s. No distinction between work and fund. I know i enjoy the work that i do. Write to me busy but it’s it’s fun doing it and i feel like work. I i like, you know, my consulting practice. I love being part of the program at the university for senator jackson’s onto leadership development and our certificate programs and writing my books and articles. But i love just working with people in long as it is, i love it. And that the university is fairly dickinson family taking the university it’s, a centre for excellence. Leadership governs atlanta p and the earl is fdu died four slash c f a cft cf fact under forex next month on may fourteenth we have our second annual conference. Of women and non-profit leadership at the marriott clan pointed tina class it was sold out. So we’re looking for a great break program issue let’s turn to our execution plan that we all need thing is all we got do a lot of planning we got execute. Yeah, well, you know, it’s it’s what i tell you, we all owe everybody who’s been listening. Everybody knows it’s exciting to go to a strategic plan its most times. Then what happens is sort of the so, like a sugar high and it’s a lot of exciting beginning and then a time to implement it. And then all of a sudden, you know, kind of wears often data they challenges. So what if some of recent difficulty movement, first of all we get into way don’t always have people trained to take strategies and operational realities. That’s one thing number two sort of asylum mentality that you know, it’s, not my job. It’s someone else’s job and protecting your own, you know, back end and turf is a problem here and so often times, and i just found it to be completely true in my experience where clients is that where? Most people think the reason for failure is because of external environment conditions. I actually think it’s the internal issues that prevent people from success while blaming the outside of the external that you have no control over easy it’s very convenient. Yeah, i know. So i was i had lunch today with a great great friend of mine. I’ve done a lot of work with and he’s a fantastic guy. He’s got a good organization, but he is not always comfortable, obviously addressing performance issues. And so they get scared under the rug and then everybody also against the moral life. So execution is crucial. I mean, what we find too often, tony is strategic plans sitting on a shelf collecting dust. That’s very common and again. So the board is happy. The beginning thie idea of ah always dresses issue. But then this measuring results and one of things that i recommend is actually having an assessment of usual plan one year after implantation to see how far you’ve come, what you’ve achieved and what maybe need to be achieving what the obstacles here. So the board’s role and ceos rolls execution and it’s rarely because there’s no. Plan of action there. No detail responsibilities. There’s no there’s, no time tables, there’s, no accountability. And so, wait, just calm. You know, we have team meetings and then we go away because we don’t get along with our team and really it’s a ceo’s job to make sure that he or she is building a team is giving people feedback and holding people accountable. I mean, you know and timetables. So we’re signing and time assigning responsibility on time from right. And if there’s an obstacle, go as a team address it. You know, i worked for the organization. What i won’t say whose name you know, not too long ago. And, you know, they point to things. It so it’s. Not my problem. Well, actually, it’s a collective problem. So sometimes issues can be solved by just one person. It needs a team approach. We should be working as a team approach here. I just think that it’s crucial in terms of education, the whole people was the sailors before and often times, you know, in the corporate world which i was just, you know, for seven years a cz an executive running a health care practice in the northeast for non-profit clients ah, people will give a lot of responsibility, but they’re held accountable and unfortunately, a stereotype in the nonprofit world there’s people will forgive a lot responsibility and very little accountability. We sort of have, you know, we don’t want anybody go o r where, you know, we don’t wantto upset the cart, and yet what happens is that when performances and driven and impacts everybody else here, so execution is altum responsible responsibility of the ceo and and that’s when i talked about, you know, the entrepreneur or roll today the leadership conference is a very different execution is crucial. Sitting on a shelf is is an investment. You put all that investment situation, it’s important to see what happened, maybe did something change? Why isn’t example, one of the clients that i’m just finishing work? What wanted to build a from a behavior health care program that was more of an outpatient baseball grant funding? They wanted to build a more of a fee for service program to address the increasing number of people insured to the affordable care act pompel yet it’s in seem to be happening why? Well, they will want organized it didn’t have the right management team in place. I was able to come on and make some suggestions to promote this person to move person along here. So it’s really crucial final why hasn’t something that you said is a goal? Why isn’t it been achieved? It’s it’s really important? Take a look at that. You made too much investment. It’s too important teo cannot keep going. Let’s, talk a little about this breaking down the silos. Yeah, because now we’ve now we’re invoking courage, which i mentioned before that courage from above we’ve got ego. We’ve got personality got turf. Things are not so easy to get. Everybody get broken down and get everybody collaborating. It’s not easy. I mean, we’re human beings. We have attendance to protect ourselves and protect little turf era in our own little eagles. But again, it comes down to leadership accountability, one of things that i did back in my in my hospital days. Remember when i became president of ah, the hospital. You know, the boys recruited me and told me this hospital’s doing so well for actually which turns out it wasn’t but they told me it was doing. Well on patient satisfaction when i got there front and actually that were in the bottom quarter on the country, a little alarming, right? And it was actually embarrassing, but one of things that i did was providing educational training program and the focus of that to remind everybody that everybody who comes that everybody who works here is actually on stage. You know, if you go to report away show and i’m not a big board way guy, but my wife likes to go if you go to see cats, whatever they’re putting out for ten thousand times, but looks like the only time they were put on for you here, i tell people, you know, people come into our organization whether it’s, the hospital organization may be the first time they’ve seen in a hospital could be the best day of the year. Two delivery of a newborn baby. It could be the worst day that grandma has passed away in the ice. You know, it could be a tragedy happen you but day everybody comes in is somebody’s mother, father, brother, sister, we have accountability, tow how we’re going to be treating those people, how we’re going. To be saying hello, how we’re going to be voting, people lost directions, it confound the leadership again. Leadership has to be able to know their person, their personnel, they have to know their leadership team if the leadership team is not working effectively, it transgressions all way down the entire organization. I did this organizational envision setting process for someone and weak appearing when i did employ focus groups was how you know all those people in administration, because why? Because the people in administration talk about each other in a negative way and so it’s important to address it, and i think you can develop team goals, collaboration, eso people don’t feel a strength but it’s absolutely crucial toe let people know what they’re doing well, but as a leader it’s crucial to be ableto communicate the people that need to be able to work specifically that other people and when they’re not address it and give me some improvement. Most people want to do it. Nobody misbehaves intentionally, but it’s really crucial in today’s non-profit setting to be strategic aligned to achieve division chief you goes, you must be internally light and that requires leadership to address. It as well as human resource fortunes because we’re talking so much about health care reminded that i was walking through a hospital once and the guy who was carrying a ladder, you know, clearly facilities maintenance guy, he said hello with a bright smile, you know, and it’s just it’s a struck me i mean, the guy’s got a ladder on his shoulder, he’s still he’s, still greeting me and saying hello. Well, actually, i’ve seen i’ve seen non-profit executives who may have different locations and their employees don’t even know they are, they don’t even visit him. Yeah, so comment right, multiple locations, everybody comes to them. Nobody comes the ceo for a meeting on door, the university president with the multiple college of something nobody comes to them telefund are they getting out? I had a i had a profound with grad school columbia school of public health and administration back a long, long time ago and my professor, i said to all of us one day, so listen, someday you guys going to work in hospitals, put your books away, put your contracts way but we walked down the emerge from remind yourself why you there? And it was a lesson i’ve always learned, and i think the same thing is true here as a leader to step away from your desk, ming with the people that are doing the programs have a conversation with them, go to duncan, don’t start bringing some coffee by some donuts, take a tour, he would they got to say, i mean, the first time they’re probably thinks something critical happen. That’s why there’s, something bad happened, but it’s um, it’s crucial to hear what people have to say, people, i need to be heard when you, when you listen to your employees, they feel cared for it’s all part of the alignment process it’s crucial? You can’t afford not to have everybody’s energy aligned and that’s just that doesn’t always happen the way it should because the leadership is so important. The board, in addition to assessing itself point you made earlier, does need to be doing ceo assessment also and moving out someone who is not providing this the entrepreneurial spirit, that spirit, that leadership that you’re you’re advising and no one’s looking that beat, you know, firing people if you have that sort of the end product. Of the but there’s so many accusations that they have not evaluate their ceo and it’s. So many ceos i’ve asked have never evaluate their own direct reports on dh so it’s crucial performing it may be a requirement. There is requirement accreditation a lot of things that have performance if i was everybody dreads. Um, but that’s the paperwork but it’s really crucial if you weren’t effective leader managed to be able to address on every day basis. The things that people do well, pat him on the back. I just had someone tell me the problem with our supervisor it’s all critical it’s not a pat on the back and so performance the violations should be a re energizer it should be able to say, dennis, this is what you’ve done well, as focused on the good things first tennis, these two things i’d like you to work on. I want to work on this. I want to work on that that’s important and is the impact that’s having it’s crucial to do that? And so you have to evaluate people you have to evaluate your ceo if you’re ceo can’t always do it one of things that is is necessary or investment have a performance coach have a life coach, i’m a performance, i do a lot of performance coaching for ceos and boardmember it helped me get on track, it helps and have an independent, neutral person that they can talk to about their issues they’re having in and support them. So you want to always find the upside you want to help people get better on lee when all else fails the end up coming down determined people, but sometimes it’s, you have to do it empowering to mean the board the board empowers the ceo and maybe it is through some, some coaching, but then the empowerment of course, has to trickle down the ceo. I need to be doing the same for their report. You and he can’t, you know there’s too many ceos or ceos that do everything themselves and don’t delegate and stuff and that’s not why you’re hiring people and so that’s not effective use of your time to be having, you know, twelve direct reports and going overcome reports that that’s not affect do-it-yourself you know it’s it’s, you have to start with yourself though it’s very difficult to empower someone else when you don’t feel empowered yourself here and in alison, i mean, in the hospital, so you have to allow people make mistakes now you don’t want to obviously, you know, you can’t give the wrong blood. I do things like that, but, you know, sometimes people have to make him sex and grow when they learned from and i think you’ve got to encourage innovation. You’ve gotto coverage your employees to take a chance. You got encourage employees, take a risk. Let him know that you support him. You know, take a take a crack at a new program, take a crack at a new angle to it. Do something differently. Give him thie. Given the authority to take risk. It’s crucial. What about what about board recruiting? Yeah, the board is so critical, right? What’s, your advice around getting the right people on the board well is crucial. And he has a couple things here. First of all, i advise my clients to move away from sort of the board the board nominating process. Two aboard recruitment process and let me explain. You know, toni and tamar listens. What? I mean by that? First of all what i recommend to my clients is they should they should have and develop an ideal boardmember tricks. What does that mean? Well, if you were building you bored today, what would be the ideal attributes, talents or expertise that you’d want on your board? What are the geographical areas of diversity? May you want? If you’re involved in westerns? Accounted the one everybody from white plains will you want other ports of you’re involved in a city? The one everybody from manhattan? You want people from the bronx? How about, you know, other firms of diversity on it? What of the skillsets you need? What corporations or philanthropic entities may you want someone on? So you have to develop that set. Number two. You take the same thing for what you currently have and the difference between the two should be aboard with cubine strategies. It’s okay to nominate people to recruit people, you know, but more importantly, today it’s about recruiting people that you don’t know but finding a way to get to them. That is really the talent of board development that it’s not just nominee people, but if you have an example, if you say we really could use someone that is really expert expert in social media, marketing, internet communication you may not know somebody who talked to people who might they know who might you know, in another another corporation find someone they don’t know and then talk about the process zaptitude we often don’t do a good enough job talking about why we should have people on our board. I mean, if you’re bored, does not energized if the board is not excited about if you if you’re not an excitement or condition, we’re not striving to be a winner. You’re not gonna recruit, but you have to be able to ah, pound your chest labbate gonna be talking about that organization, it’s crucial people want to be part of a winner, and obviously, you know, the latter’s voice sometimes get the right person. You gotta go away for a couple moments when we come back. Of course, dennis and i’m going to keep talking. Got to take a break for tello’s, the credit card payment processing this long tale of passive revenue. You’ve got to check this out. Tony dahna slash tony. Tell us this could be revenue for you indefinitely. Ad infinitum that that infinity sign that never ends because you get companies to switch their payment processing to tell us, and then you get fifty percent of everything forever. Tony dahna may slash tony, tell us now, back to dennis miller. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. I got live listener love that i wish i could send, but were pre recorded today. Uh, you know, i think i can pretty well wing it. We know we’ve got listeners from, uh, in japan and south korea and maybe even iran. Certainly china on dh coming domestically. California, maybe agoura hills is listening. That would be mark, i think. Ah, but other listeners from california, new york, new york is always checking in texas. Ah, washington and oregon sometimes. Hopefully santa monica. My kids live in santa monica if you told them to it and then then they’re here. So live listener loved everyone who is listening live and, of course, pod class pleasantries. I just said plod classed pod class pod crit podcast that’s awful said it five times by bob broadcast pleasantries. I say it all the time, but i’m sending podcast pleasantries to everybody who’s listening in the time shift wherever you might be very grateful for all of you, the vast majority of our of our nine thousand listeners. If i could just add something what i said when we talked about a lot of things, you know, leadership board development board recruitment program stuff i think it’s not easy to be successful. It’s not easy to move the organisation for it to do so has takes courage, it takes a commitment, it takes the the the ability to not always make everybody comfortable. I think organizations tony, that need to change is sometimes you have to become uncomfortable in order to grow and far too often. You know, i’m not talking about going out in the elearning any people but that’s part of the entrepreneurial spirit is being uncomfortable, but there’s time in every organization to make changes. I mean, there’s some organizations i work for an organization once that was had a hundred or history. Ah, and it’s certainly gone through, you know, multiple little changes here, but i’ve done a lot of work with many walkers. There isn’t many make-a-wish chapters that you know into their fortieth year and the leadership that was necessary twenty years ago, ten years ago is not that kind of boardmember the people needed not there. It’s change is crucial on what i hope from people, whether they all listen to the show today or they read my books that they confined on, you know, dennis. Similar dot com to amazon or bonds amglobal online. I hope that they find the courage. I hope they’re they’re energized. I hope they’re feel inspired because i do believe that there is a way to succeed. I do believe there’s a way to a better life for these organizations. I have tried toe layout, road maps for them, whether it’s leadership board organization there is a way and there’s many people out there every day their remains and people, of course, this country we’ll get up every day to try to make a difference in life of other people. And i admire that. I’m glad before that. But it’s not easy, but it’s crucial. That changes record. What’s an ideal board meeting. Yeah. Going on, idealware. Finally, i got one guy. Got one good one in the whole hour. Very good. I want decent. I feel bored. Meaning is focusing more about tomorrow, then? Yes, we’ll lay out an agenda for an ideal annoy ideal boardmember people. May i said i would take a little bit of time. Just kind of give, i think. First of all, an ideal board meeting has ideal committee meetings. Okay. Ah, good bored. Has committee structure and you don’t want to do all the work there. I would say a good janet would be to have a relatively brief update on key issues about the financial picture updates on the strategic plan or updates on board governments. I think it’s more important for a good board meaning to be focused in on tomorrow’s activities have the board engaged and about tomorrow i tell people, it’s sort of a thermometer if your board meetings were spending more than fifty percent of the time talking about yesterday, you not having affected board? I mean boardmember should know more ninety minutes, one hundred two hours, maximum if your board meetings to go on more than that, they’re ineffective. So an idea, boyd means when people leave energized, feel refreshed and they don’t have what i call the rubber band theory. Boardmember is rubber band theory boardmember everybody has one. You know you said that your packets a week ahead of time. The person picks up the packet on the wife home from work stops at the board meeting parks the car and takes the rubber band off. The packet is leading the pack. Is that going? To the board meeting goes at a board meeting, doesn’t even have the ability that initially an emotion called home and i second the motion i’m happy put the rubber band back on a really good boardmember of border generals, when the board chair is engaging people for discussion, it’s when boardmember zehr bringing ideas for when boardmember zehr asking questions boardmember should be asking questions. Is that about micromanage? But the board should be challenging leadership interesting, you said relatively short amount of time on things like the budget fiduciary oversight, i mean now, okay, you know, you may have an annual budget planning me, ok, but this is not this is not that this is your average board meeting, but, you know, you don’t need to spend most of the time on the fiduciary, like you’re saying looking back where was money spends etcetera, more time looking forward visionary boy was now and that’s how it should be now, obviously, you know, unfortunately, and today’s climate, most board the spending time, you know, howto bring in money to keep ourselves open here, but i think honestly, they’re going about it the wrong way i think that, you know what i believe in very much in my heart and soul is about there not going about talking about their achievements or not talk about their success. They’re not talking about the difference in the lives of making if you begin the process about that, you will find the money you will worked for in finding the resource is here. So again, the ideal board meeting was when people we had a great boardmember at the university, they are our center for actually what really did on and it was just well, we’re focused, not truthfully, it’s not believing it was energised cause why cause we’re talking about have build our own committee structure about social media and marking communications in the whole university how to be looking forward to a development of online programs, there’s just people in the classroom how to be looking at our own board, which is now two years into existence, how to be, you know, we doing that’s it was it was an energized because we’re talking about tomorrow, people work excited about that, and i think that’s, what we need to focus in on tell me what you love about the work that you do? I loved the i loved the people i work with, you know? I’m a guy that came up from from nothing. No, sir. It was put in my mouth. You know, greta had a lot of issues, as most kids do with family. I went to college, graduated late at the age of twenty eight, graduated grad school twenty nine and became a ceo. Thirty seven. I just love the people i work. What? I love what they do. I loved what they’re trying to do for the people in the community. Ah, that is what i enjoy helping him. I know i’ve helped a lot of organizations. I get a lot of feedback. There’s a lot of wonderful client testimonies on the website. I just have a passion for what i do, tony. I like it. I like people. I like life and well, here to make it better for everybody else. That’s. What? I like dennis miller. You’ll find him at d c miller dot com on darcy miller. Dot com dennis c miller dot com sorry, dennis c miller dot com on twitter he’s at np board therapy and you also find him at the fairleigh dickinson university center for excellence, which we know is fdu forward slash c f, ft you dot ideal forward slash cf. Even my mother called me the n e for many years. I had to tell my mom, my mom is dead and you know, i appreciate that. Thank you very much, dennis. Next week i just don’t know, but i know it will be live if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Twenty dahna slash pursuant radio regular cps guarding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us our creative producer, in-kind meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scots time be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Yeah. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving! Cubine duitz are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor ing. Sometimes the potentiality tune in every tuesday line to ten eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c. Osili are you feeling unhappy with your body, shape or size? Ever feel out of control with food? I’m elizabeth from nourish the soul, and on this show, you will uncover the route to these imbalances and discover a permanent solution toe having a healthy relationship to food and your body. Join us every thursday morning at eleven a, m eastern time on talk radio dot. 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