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Nonprofit Radio for October 27, 2020: Mommy Lied To God

My Guest:

Carlos Maestas: Mommy Lied To God

That’s Carlos Maestas’ new book. He’s a storysmith and he’s got tips and strategies to improve your storytelling. He’s the founder of Key Ideas. What’s this got to do with Mr. Rogers Neighborhood? Come listen! Come learn.

 

 

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[00:01:37.34] spk_1:
welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with pro so PAG nausea If you made me face the idea that you missed today’s show. Mommy lied to God. That’s Carlos. My Estate’s new book. He’s a story Smith, and he’s got tips and strategies to improve your storytelling. He’s the founder of key ideas. Come, listen, come learn Antonis. Take two planned giving accelerator were sponsored by turning to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives. Raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot Emma slash a free demo and a free month. What a pleasure to welcome to the show. Carlos My estas. He believes storytelling is the best way organizations and people can move others to action. He’s the author of the book Mommy Lied to God. Life Lessons in Authentic Storytelling. He’s founder in chief story. Smith at key ideas, helping organizations sharpen and share their messages. He’s a stand up comedian who once opened for Saturday Night Live alumnus Dennis Miller the company is that key ideas dot Net And at Key Ideas, Inc. Carlos is at key ideas. Carlos Carlos Mast us. Welcome to the show.

[00:01:48.74] spk_0:
Hey, tony, It’s so great T b with a veteran podcast world. I I’m honored to be with you today.

[00:02:08.74] spk_1:
Oh, thank you. I’m gratified. Pleased. Pleased to have you were gonna regular some fun with storytelling? Absolutely. Um, I have to tell you, it’s a little sad for me to have to say Saturday, Saturday Night Live alumnus before Dennis Miller’s name. Because there was a time when being that would be like saying today. You know comedian Jim Gaffigan, right? He was so well known. He was He was fabulous.

[00:02:24.71] spk_0:
Yeah. Did the weekend update for exactly weekend update? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I grew up watching SNL. Probably way before. I should have, you know, my mom. My mom was Was she? Her style was like, Yeah, you’re interested. Like, let’s stay up. And, you know, I probably fall asleep, you know, right before we started getting really bad. Yeah, you know, that was

[00:02:52.85] spk_1:
when it was the not ready for prime time players.

[00:02:55.26] spk_0:
Yeah, Yeah. Gilda

[00:02:57.23] spk_1:
Radner. Dan Ackroyd John Belushi?

[00:03:03.74] spk_0:
Yeah, Newman And then Dana Carvey, you know, later and eyes. And, you know, it was It was It was so much fun to watch. And so I would stay up late and probably was up till till probably the weekend update, and I’d fall asleep. So, you know, Dennis Miller was It was definitely a guy I watched. I probably don’t understand a lot of the jokes back then, but, you know, it was definitely one of the things that made me want to get into doing stand up eventually.

[00:03:29.00] spk_1:
And how about opening for him? How did that come about?

[00:04:54.60] spk_0:
Yeah, you know, opening for him was one of those Those, uh, calls you get that you’re you’re not expecting on dhe? It happened about a week before he was coming into town. And interestingly enough, it was the same day that I had a huge presentation for a group of nonprofits on and and so I had to remember what I was supposed to say in that presentation. It was called a text summit, and it was happening at Rackspace in San Antonio, and there were over 200 non profit leaders that we’re gonna be there for this event. And it was probably the biggest presentation had done for nonprofits up until that point. And then that night was the show with Dennis Miller. So I was a wreck the week before, you know, I was just trying Thio not mixed up the two presentations on dhe then and then just, you know, rehearse and try to be as prepared as I could. But I I’m one of those guys that Yeah, I am nervous until the minute I had hit the stage and I’m good on dhe Then on DSO It was just one of those calls I got and I was like, Of course, I’ll open up for Dennis Miller. And it was this beautiful, uh, really beautiful theater in San Antonio called theater. And it’s been there a really long time. Some of the biggest acts have come through and perform. There’s right on the river walk beautiful

[00:05:03.74] spk_1:
people in the audience.

[00:07:25.84] spk_0:
Yeah, so I think that it was It was so I gauge it by how much the tickets were not. The tickets were like $60 a ticket, and and I think it was their capacity there, probably around 1500. Maybe a little bit more and it was full. I mean, it was I don’t know that it was sold out, but it was pretty close to it. I mean, because I remember I was I you know, I opened for him and they started setting up seats in the front where there weren’t any seats. They were like adding seats to the show on DSO you had, You know, I kind of made a joke about it because you had these people that were in steerage at the time the rafters on, but they were still paying $60 a ticket. And then you have these these people It must have been the VIPs that they were putting right in the front. And, uh and I was like, thinking to myself, You know, you cannot bomb when someone’s, you know, paying $60 for it to get on dso I did. I did 20 minutes and I got to say it was it was a great radio and it was really cool to meet him. What? One thing I could tell you a short little story. You know, I didn’t get Thio actually meet him until he was coming on the stage, and I believe that the group that had booked him, you know, it was they were used to doing. They’re called Live Nation and they do a lot of concerts e they concerts. Yeah, huge on. But the comedy is something they do less frequently. And I know the person who was in charge of this. I think it was like his first comedy, big comedy show. And so he said, If you could, you know, finish your set and at the end, all you have to say is Dennis Miller will be here with you shortly and that’s it. You know, say thank you and say he’ll be with you shortly and someone else is gonna bring him up. And so I was like, Okay, I’m like, I can’t you know, I won’t mess that up. And so I’m thinking, there’s a break between and you know, I’m finishing my set. And then I see Dennis Miller to the right. He’s on stage, and I’m like, Oh, that’s cool. He’s like watching a little bit of show. Uh, and so I do exactly what the guy says, you know? Hey, thank you so much Dennis Miller will be with you shortly. And so then I start leaving the stage. And then Miller’s walking on stage like the worst intro You work thing you could do like he’s the headliner. Yeah, you

[00:07:47.56] spk_1:
wanted If they had told you to introduce him, you know, you would have got the crowd all whipped up. Exactly what? San Antonio, Let’s bring on the Incredible. It was a Saturday night live on them. And all you got to say was he’ll be with you shortly. He’s

[00:08:01.35] spk_0:
my I’m I’m the hometown guy. I’m supposed to get the hometown crowd. Yeah, And so then he spends the first five minutes of the set making fun of me because of the intro that he just got. And so he gets on there, and he’s like, Well, thanks for whipping them up into a frenzy. Carlos, I’m like, Oh, gosh. And you know that

[00:08:20.59] spk_1:
you got screwed. You got screwed the stagehand or whoever gave you the bad direction

[00:08:27.20] spk_0:
I had, you know, it was it was it was my nerves and not thinking. Well, maybe, you know, maybe he’s gonna bring him up, but yeah, the guy said, you know, just do this. And, uh And so I was thinking there’s some of the I p that was gonna bring

[00:08:38.82] spk_1:
it right. There’s somebody else that you don’t know. Uh, we’re gonna bring him on. No, you did. You did what anybody would have done. You follow direction.

[00:09:19.24] spk_0:
Eso Then afterwards, I got a chance that he was gracious enough, and I think he was doing probably like a red eye flight out. He didn’t even stay eso, you know, I got to watch a set from from the side of the stage and then on. And then, you know, he took a picture with me afterwards and that, you know, that was it. That was it was quick. But, you know, it was definitely one of those things that I will not forget for the rest of my life. But it’s also cool to me. It was also, you know, nice that I was connected with earlier in the day. You know what I what I really do for a living which is help support nonprofits and getting a chance toe. I think they probably got more out of it than the audience that was.

[00:09:29.48] spk_1:
They were setting up more seats in the front row because you were selling. They were selling tickets as you were on stage. Yeah,

[00:09:37.44] spk_0:
I would

[00:09:38.06] spk_1:
say, Oh, I gotta be part of this state. I gotta be part of the show. Listen to this guy, Carlos. And he’s only the opener. So they were selling additional seats, and that’s why they had to set them up in the right in front, right

[00:09:48.96] spk_0:
up in front of space. Left you doing stand up at all? Yeah.

[00:09:55.87] spk_1:
Yeah. Are you still doing stand up at all?

[00:10:00.44] spk_0:
You know, I I not A lot of people are doing stand up right now, you know, unfortunately, um, and I will do stand up. You know, any opportunity that I get, what I’m what I’m doing more often than not as I work doing, stand up into the workshops that IDEO profit. And so I get it because it’s it’s really tied closely with my personal story and and so that I have an opportunity to do that. So it’s more of that than it is, you know, traveling and doing shows. But I will. You know, any time I have an opportunity to do it, I’ll Yeah,

[00:10:40.64] spk_1:
I we’ve stand up into my presentations. Also, I have a signature opener that I use and et cetera. So

[00:10:44.98] spk_0:
that’s great comedians. And I’m sure you went through doing stand up. I think the reason you’re such a great communicator is that you know, what comedians are brilliant at doing is taking people on a journey and a very finite amount of time. Right? And you have a short amount of time to create an emotional response out of an audience. And, you know, there’s some of the best at simplifying very complex issues. And so, you know, I think that’s that’s one of the little things that I e. My comics and just people could present. Well, they have a way of using humor that really, you know, makes a connection.

[00:12:06.24] spk_1:
Well, it’s simplifying is one of your tips. Of course, which, which we which we will get to. Yeah, you have toe, right? You got a rare if I there, you gotta not, right? I don’t mean that. I mean, you gotta narrow it down to the basics that are the most the most interesting, funniest, punchy ist right and cut out the, uh, stuff that doesn’t really help. Your doesn’t really help your case, and you got to do it in. Well, in your case, 20 minutes when I do. When I was doing stand up, I was getting, like, six and eight minutes sets. So you know, when you’re just getting warmed up, all of a sudden the red light comes on and you’re being motion not motioned off, but signaled off that you got to wrap it up in 30 seconds or so. Um, but we’re gonna talk while we were talking about your story telling not mine

[00:12:09.27] spk_0:
a great lesson. No tony. And for for nonprofits or any percenter, because sometimes you only have six minutes. You have six or seven minutes for presentation. And what what you learn to do is a comedian, is you. You try things, and and when they’re not working, you should cut him out. Otherwise, you know, you’re not you’re not gonna get the response you want. And it’s the same thing for anybody who is in charge of making presentations on a regular basis.

[00:13:27.54] spk_1:
I think of boards exactly along the lines of what you’re talking about. Um, it’s rare to get the full amount of time that’s out that you’re allocated in advance at a board meeting. You know, they’ll say you get 25 minutes or a half hour or 15 20 minutes and I’ve gone down to, like, six because other topics before me went over And what we still have to finish on time or there’s a lunch deadline or, you know, whatever. It’s rare that you get the full time that your plan and you wanna fly, you know, you gotta Okay, we’re gonna cut these slides. Well, you’ll get this in print or you have this in print. We’re gonna skip these because I’m now down to, like, 1/5 of the time. But here’s the most important stuff, you know? And you got to do that with, like, 10 minutes notice sometimes depending on how the board meeting is right. And there are other instances of that, too. But I think of board meetings as being the like, the least likely to stay on time and on. They’ll stay on agenda. But on time allocation least likely I find,

[00:13:34.59] spk_0:
Yeah, if you’re down on that, if you’re down on that agenda, you’re you’re likely gonna have to cut. You should just already Starting on.

[00:14:08.24] spk_1:
I’m always the consultant anyway. I mean, the consultant is the the most expendable, right? You know, he’s here. We’re paying him anyway, so, you know, and and, uh, we got to squeeze him in because he he traveled here. But there’s other stuff That’s I don’t just seems always more important than the plans giving. I do plan to giving fundraising, but the message is you’re right. You gotta boil it down to the key messages. And and you’re right. Sometimes you got to do it on the fly. Mhm.

[00:14:08.85] spk_0:
That’s right.

[00:15:25.31] spk_1:
So let’s talk about you though. Um, so you’re right. You’re a reckon tour storyteller, right? And so I do want to tell her I want you to tell your stories, tell some stories and then we’ll pick out the lessons that your tips and strategies that we can learn from from different stories. But is that OK? Way. Okay, e I wanna I wanna base it around the stories not around the strategies, which will we will cover. But I feel like we got I got to give you time to talk about Fred Rogers from Mr Rogers neighborhood. You revere this man as a storyteller. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They help you build relationships with journalists because of a relationship built by turn to the New York community. Trust got to features in the Wall Street Journal. That’s what happens when you get the good relationships before you want to be heard in the media. You got the existing relationship turn to specializes In working with nonprofits, they’ll help you build those relationships. One of the partners, Peter Pan A. Pento, was an editor at the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. Now back to Mommy. Lied to God. Why is that? What can we learn from Fred Rogers?

[00:16:56.64] spk_0:
Yeah, well, I’m probably aging myself a little bit, too. Just that that I know who he is, um, and and watched him, you know, growing up. But you know, you when you experience something as a child, you experience it and you don’t you don’t quite know what what draws you in about it. And it’s not till you you hear the stories behind what was very a very intentional approach of how Fred Rogers, you know, worked at connecting with kids and just how authentic he was as a storyteller. And And the reason I used Fred Rogers is an example is because he was a non profit, right? He worked for a nonprofit E. Yeah, exactly. Hey, had to be really scrappy on dhe. There are a lot of parallels with how he told stories that I find with nonprofits to you because, you know, he had just a small team and, hey, didn’t have the budget that, you know, folks like Walt Disney and and some of the other major studios that were producing content for kids. But he did it anyway. He was successful at it, you know? And so, you know, one of the things one of the lessons about about Fred Rogers is the lessons and consistency and how he would open the uh huh. Coming in, he would take off his suit jacket, you know, put on the cardigan on and take off his shoes. Put on. And that happened. I didn’t think about it much. It’s like, Why is this guy changing on? You know, you don’t think about it as a kid, but what? What? What he was doing is he was creating something that you know kids could anticipate and expect every single time show would start. Even though the show is different and

[00:17:23.55] spk_1:
routine, there’s that routine is comforting.

[00:20:03.84] spk_0:
It is comforting. It’s comforting, especially when you have kids who who knows how un inconsistent their routine might be right in their home life. And so there are little things like that that just get you comfortable with what’s about to happen and knowing that, you know, you work to build that trust with your audience. But after you have, then they, you know they look forward to that routine. And so you know, messaging when you share your story and sharing a consistent message and not, you know, changing you can change your approach and you can change. Uh, you know you can change the the the content on dhe What you used to tell that story, but your messaging should be consistent. You should be sharing a consistent message every time, and you should try to get people feeling comfortable with who you are and what you dio. And it’s a lesson that you can learn with with your donors, you know, because if you’re establishing a relationship over a period of time. They should feel, uh they should feel that they understand you in a way that others may not a tw the beginning if they’ve been with you for, you know, five or 10 years, right on Dhe. There’s other things. You know, The one of the things I appreciate about about him is that he told he was he told stories that had heavy content, but they were It was they were stories that, you know, kids were living through your heart. You know, if he was alive today, he would he would for sure be doing content on the pandemic. And, you know, like, things that were, you know, he things that were in the time, really a traumatic things that were going on in our history. Things like war, uh, the threat of nuclear. Or, you know, Martin Luther King’s assassination heavy, heavy things that you would think we would try away from that, you know, for a kids show. But he figured out a way of making it safe, Uh, and and communicating in a way that was age appropriate for the kid on dso they they left the show being better for it. because it wasn’t something that was just being swept under the rug. You know, I think about my own daughter. I’m a father, three, But I have a daughter. That’s six. And, um, you know, just because we don’t talk about it, If we were to not talk about what’s happening with the pandemic, she’s gonna she’s gonna have a ton of questions anyway. You know, shoot for the first. You know, a few months of us staying at home from school and wearing masks. You know, she was she was You could feel how heavy it was for her. On dhe. She would say things like, I don’t want anyone to get the Cyrus should say the Cyrus, it was hard to cry. Wanted to correct her. She you know, she was 12 and saying Cyrus would be different.

[00:20:34.00] spk_1:
Miley, Miley, Cyrus

[00:20:35.40] spk_0:
e. I don’t want anyone to get those

[00:20:37.49] spk_1:
Wiley Wiley virus. The Miley Cyrus

[00:20:39.51] spk_0:
e don’t wanna get to Miley Cyrus s. Oh, you know, we we what it did? Is it it? It gave us an opportunity to just have, you know, really appropriate conversations with her.

[00:21:04.24] spk_1:
Uh, Fred Rogers, Didn’t you like you’re saying didn’t shy away from difficult subjects. He found an appropriate way to discuss them in an intimate you know, an intimate way by reducing it. Thio What kids needed to know and was was he still was he still on the air in on September 11th?

[00:21:59.24] spk_0:
You know, I think he came back and did a special I don’t think he was. If if I remember doing the research for this, I don’t know that he was still doing the show, but he was still, you know he was. He was young enough to be able to come on and and talk about it. I think there was on PBS. There was some, like, special or interviews that he gave around that time, and but he’s still so what they did is they evolved the show into this Daniel Tiger’s neighborhood, which is it’s basically, you know, they still do kind of that the same music and same theme, but it’s a cartoon now. Ah Nde s Oh, yeah, I mean, I think that those are the kinds of things that you know when you live life. There’s there’s plenty of things to celebrate. But there are also a lot of things that are just really hard. And I think that, you know, if we don’t take the time Thio just be authentic with with our kids or with who we serve or with our teams. Um then, you know, we’re missing out on an opportunity thio grow from those experiences

[00:22:45.54] spk_1:
and remain relevant as well. You can’t ignore what you know Everybody around you is experiencing and still expect to be relevant during and afterwards It’s if you know everybody is suffering something or celebrating something you have tow. You have to talk about it if if if you have a if you have a voice. I mean, if you have a channel Yeah, Alright, so let’s I’m gonna get to some stories now because this is the storytelling book. So, you know, usually I’m very dictatorial on non profit radio, and I I’m gonna throw it to you because I’m not really Well, you know, maybe I’m dictatorial. I don’t know. I like the guy. I’d like to guide the conversation. Let’s see, I’m a guy not a dictator, but for you. But what You know, Of course, you have your signature story, but what story you wanna open with you Tell a story.

[00:23:19.94] spk_0:
Yeah, Well, yeah. 11 lesson that I think is really important A zit relates Thio Just powerful storytelling is to seek first to understand before being tell

[00:23:25.66] spk_1:
us a story about that.

[00:28:09.54] spk_0:
Yeah. So there was a politician. We’re you know, we’re in an election year. So we’re hearing a lot about politicians, is not We’re probably sick of it, but, uh but But there was a politician that was running for a seat in taxes was his first time running a zey House representative on Dhe District 123 in San Antonio. And, um, he wanted to run on on a platform that really involved making a difference in education. You know that tze not very different right is there, you know, there’s there’s, there’s a handful, there’s there’s always ah lot of politicians that they’re going to run on a platform of education, especially It’s the first time and really specifically what he wanted to do is try. Thio changed the way that schools were financed on, but it’s different all over. In Texas, schools were financed largely by property tax, which could make it very difficult in urban areas where you have a large population of students who are in homes that air either rented or their property values are are low, very low. And so the schools where there may be the most need. Ah, nde, it’s not a maybe it is where there is the most need. Get less funding. And that’s kind of that’s how it is. That’s how it goes and so on. Do you know what? What? To add insult to injury? This was by design. You know, if you’re familiar with with red lining, then you may know that, you know, we have a hit three in the country of banks drawing lines through through communities and neighborhoods and saying we’re not gonna lend in these communities because they’re more at risk. And Andi also there, um, you know, the property values were the lots were a lot smaller and because they weren’t lending in that area, people couldn’t fix their houses up. So the problems kept, you know, perpetuated. But in addition to that, you know, if you lived in affluent neighborhood, um, it was a legal, I believe, until like the seventies too deep to put restrictions in your deeds that your house could not be transferred to somebody of color on Dhe. So, you know, it was It created a huge issue in San Antonio. And so San Antonio’s, uh, been one of the most economically segregated cities in the entire country. On DSO here is ah, a man that grew up in one of these neighborhoods. That was the poorest zip code and all of the county. And he wanted to make a difference, you know? And But he understood a lot because he knew how how, on education could change a child’s life because he he went to school. He worked hard. He graduated from the University of Michigan, Got a lot agree, spent a lot of time, you know, working on some of these issues, you know, in his work as a nutter knee. Um, but he was He was the freshman, you know, House of Rep, then it for his district. And so what he did instead of going in and just leaning on his own understanding on dhe shaping policy, what he did is he went and visited every single school that was in his district. Ah, nde. It was a very diverse district there about 55 schools, and you met with the principles at each of those schools, and you wanted to hear their stories about where the biggest needs were. And so it’s a There are a lot of things that he learned, but I’ll distillate toe this one big thing on dhe. The reason. It’s kind of a personal thing because one of the schools that he visited, my wife, was a principal and it and it, and it was in the district where he grew up in which is which is 72 07 in in San Antonio its’s It is for years and years over over 50 years of the poorest of code in in the city on dhe. The thing that she wrote on the whiteboard under challenges in the biggest challenges food insecurity. And so imagine you know, your leader of a school and you’re trying to get kids, uh, on grade reading level on dhe. You know, Thio sort of have them close gaps that exist with their learning. But you get kids that are coming to school and they’re starving on eso. They’re having problems focusing. They’re having problems, you know, with behavior. All of those things were connected. And so if you’re the school leader, you can’t really control what happens at home before they get there. But it’s having happened. Your school and so across the board, he learned that this is something that you know what’s happening in every single school that he represented and and and some of the schools were in areas that were historically very impoverished. But some of it was happening in some of the more fluent schools as well. On DSO toe add insult to injury. The food that that they would get at that school would have to be thrown away. Anything that wasn’t so there were perfectly good food that wasn’t touched. I’m not talking about this stuff on people’s plates, but like apples and oranges. You know, milk that wasn’t open, you know, if it wasn’t eaten, there were. There were, oh, school district laws and roll school district rules and state laws that said anything untouched, even if it was completely fine had to be thrown away. So here you have these hungry kids and you have you have, ah, you know, help in the same school. But because of the overlapping policies you know, they weren’t able to do anything about it. So he created the fairness and in feeding act. And what it did is it allowed these schools to kind of create these little pantries within the school. And it let the food service staff put out things that were that were not, um, eating for that. If a kid had an apple in to touch it and wanted to put it on the share table that any kid at any time could go up and take that food home with them on dso you know it it got bipartisan support because it wasn’t this Democrats story in a in a you know, a red state, right? It was this Democrat story, would visited all these schools and taken the the leaders stories on dhe to committee. And so it got bipartisan support and and that was path. And, you know, at the Times Texas was the second most food insecure state in the entire kind of country. Eso you know, here here is like one person just taking the time. Thio actually ask questions before he decided Thio pitch his ideas and and it led to his second term um, being able Thio. He became a co chair on the final on the education Committee on dhe. He was able thio actually pass ah, finance reform his second term that e think it put about $30 million into the school district that he came from. And it was a reform that just was was a also passed by bipartisan support on dhe thing he wanted to do in the beginning was able to do a second term just by going in and, you know, taking the stories of the people who do the work at Thio, the people who could make a difference.

[00:36:18.13] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s Take Two planned giving accelerator. This is the membership community that I have created to get your plan giving program started in 2021. You’ll join for a year, and I will teach you everything I know about how to get your plan giving program started. We’re gonna be working with charitable bequests. We’re gonna identify together your top prospects, your Tier two prospects. We’re gonna get the solicitations out. I’ll help you with the follow up to those solicitations. Whatever requests or information you get back from them, we’re gonna keep that process going. We’ll talk about exposing your board to plan to giving everything you need to get your plan giving program started in 2021. We’ll do it together. I’m gonna have live trainings, Which, of course, all record. So if you can’t make the live version, we’ll do small group. Ask me anything. Sessions. I’m gonna have a podcast exclusively for planned giving accelerator members. There will be resource is like samples, samples off letters, samples off other advertising. Copy that. You might put in your newsletter or your annual report. Samples of welcome letters toe welcome people into the recognition society. That’s another thing. We’ll talk about creating your recognition society. So you’re thanking all your new plan giving donors everything you need to get planned giving started in 2021. I’ve been doing this since 1997. I know how to launch your plan to giving program. I know how to start a program so that in 3 to 5 years and in out years beyond that, you’ve got the program that you want. I know what to do in the beginning. So then the long term, you’ve got a successful sustainable plan giving program. You know, I do webinars and there’s value in those. Of course I don’t maketh um, empty shells there. There’s value. People know it. If you’ve listened to any of the webinars I’ve done, you know that this the accelerator is a much, much deeper dive. I mean, the webinars are what, 45 minutes to an hour, rarely, even a now and a half. The accelerator is a year long program, and I’m estimating the person who is doing it with me in your non profit. And by the way, you can have up to three people in one non profit join uh, would spend about our a week. So you’re looking at, like, four hours, maybe five hours a month, max in the trainings, and then in the follow up work that you’ll be doing on your own step by step as I’m teaching, right, take a look at planned giving accelerator dot com. What I want to do with this is get 1000 or 1500 new plan giving programs launched in the United States. You know, I’m doing it to expand planned giving. I want to see so many more planned gifts and planned giving programs in the US the average charitable bequest is about $35,000. So when all those 1000 or 1500 programs scale up to 100 gif ts when they get to that point, that’s roughly at a minimum 3.5 billion New plan giving dollars for US charities That’s what we’re all about. That’s what I’m doing this for. I wanna help you get your plan giving program started. Join the accelerator. Let’s do this all together. Let’s get these new 3.5 billion new dollars for us. Non profits from planned GIF ts expand planned giving in the country started in your non profit. We’ll be doing it together, all right. It’s all at planned giving accelerator dot com. And that, my friend, is Tony’s Take two. And so the lesson is, understand? Understand what the hell you’re talking about

[00:36:59.53] spk_0:
just on your own understanding and make sure that you’re asking questions from people who are who are doing the work every day and and it doesn’t mean you may have done the work right, but they’re they’re always, you know, people who they’re doing the work. Then and there. And we need to make sure that we’re asking the right questions so that we can get to the right solutions. You may be the expert. You may have done the work, and you may have done the job, but you you still need thio. Add voices from the people even that you serve, um, to make sure that your coming up with the best solutions.

[00:37:03.53] spk_1:
Yeah. How about another one?

[00:38:16.32] spk_0:
Yeah, eso another journey. I would say that that was really important. Is, you know, powerful storytelling. Um, doesn’t always have Ah, a a great beginning. Eso There was, ah, guy that I had a chance to interview That was with this, uh, non profit called chrysalis Ministries. And they dio they help reduce the recidivism rate from people who are coming out of jail and in prison. And they do this through, you know, syriza classes like a A classes and any classes financial literacy classes on dhe. They try to get help, people, you know, get back on their feet even if they’ve maybe started out making some mistakes on dhe eso. There’s this guy Jose that was an athlete in high school. Um, he got hurt on Dhe started to fall in with the wrong crowd. And he was he was getting bullied by these this group. And because he was sort of like a of preservation, he decided to join the group. And so that led to him being in a gang. Hey, started Thio sell drugs he started to use, uh, any. He landed up in jail. Um, and then he was in jail and then ended up getting in a gang in jail. But also, uh, you know, tryto thio survive. And so we fell in with the Texas Syndicate, which look Zeta Zeta cartel. We’ll use the Texas and the kit sometimes to carry out contract. Let’s just a contract work contract

[00:38:58.67] spk_1:
killings, right? E contract beatings if if you’re not quite as bad as deserving of death. Okay. In the

[00:41:51.11] spk_0:
prisons, right, it was, but it but it was killings. It’s just the right the right word. Uh, and and so this isn’t the group you wanna, you know, falling with if if you are trying to turn things around, but eso he ended up, you know, going in and out of prison. And the last time Hey, he was in prison for armed robbery on Dhe. He was facing 30 years and hey, had he What he did is decided he was going to turn his life around and joined this ministry in prison. That was a faith based ministry. And, um, he started to kind of share his own story. And, you know, he was getting clean, obviously, and doing the work and his his he ended up getting his sentence commuted to 12 years on dso when he got out, What he decided to do is you got hired by a non profit that was working at in Austin, in Texas, on the youth youth criminal justice reform on because he has been a lot of his youth in jail, in and out of jail. He could speak thio what it meant to be in jail. And, you know, he had never gone to the capital before. And now he was meeting with senators, um, you know, on and sharing his story and sharing why, you know, things needed to be to be changed on dso. Here’s a guy who, you know, had a hard asked and made a lot of mistakes, and you could have run from that part of his life and not shared that part of the story. But he’s now using it to do good for others. And it’s an example of, you know, some of the struggle with our own personal story and the hard parts of our story. And we don’t want to talk about it because we may even be ashamed of it. Or maybe just really painful to talk about on dso What I what I want to communicate through this story is, no matter what you’ve been through, you know you can always use that thing. Teoh be good for somebody else. And you know, I e over over 1000 people in my career. And some of them have been through some of the worst things, you know. They overcome homelessness. They’ve overcome addictions. They’ve had family members that they have lost some of them Children on dhe. The one thing that they all have in common is that they’re using that experience, uh, to to to try to make something good coming from it. Um, and so our stories have a way of, you know, if they’re they’re just in the dark, they can have a way of festering in the dark and continuing to cause a lot of pain for us. And we can get to a point in our lives where we can share then that one thing that was a hard thing can actually, you know, helps save someone’s life for help. Change someone’s life. Ah, nde eso Those stories don’t have to be wasted and so that you know, I would say the first. A step to becoming a great storyteller is just acknowledging that you have one, that there’s value in it on dhe that, you know, if you spend some time thinking about you know who you want to reach on, who you’re meeting that they are. Stories have a way of differentiating us, but also connecting us at the same time. And that’s that could be very powerful.

[00:42:56.20] spk_1:
Yeah, I love that point. You’re making the book. It differentiates because it’s unique. It’s unique to you. Your story makes you authentic and unique. But the broader lesson connects us to others as well.

[00:43:01.50] spk_0:
Yeah, that’s that’s right. You know, nobody has exactly your same story, but there’s there’s parts of that story that are going to connect with people in different ways. And that may make all the friends. Um and I don’t think we do it enough is leaders not not just in fundraising. I think it’s incredibly important and fundraising. You’ve, you know, made a career helping people fundraise. But also, you know, and I have to and it’s always leading with those stories that I think are there what people remember. You know, statistics are really important on dhe. You can include stats, but it’s not what people are gonna like. Hey, did you did you hear about about those statistics? That’s incredible. And right, you don’t you don’t remember? And so when

[00:43:48.37] spk_1:
one of here one of your tips is to is to avoid the you call the curse of knowledge

[00:43:53.90] spk_0:
right

[00:44:06.39] spk_1:
now and have a again drilling down to the simple and not littering it with stuff that isn’t really needed. Thio serve the purpose. And again, the curse of knowledge your stuffing too much in

[00:44:09.26] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah, it goes back to what we’re talking about, you know, when making presentations is just tryingto to simplify your message on dhe. You know, when you when you talk about when you’re when you’re making your presentation, you’re or you’re doing a video. You know, really anything that sharing your story. You think about it as a trailer for the organization. You know, a trailer, a movie trailer gets you excited to go see the film. You know, it doesn’t give everything away. And I think that when you have the curse of knowledge what what you What you’re trying to do is make what you’re about to say, connect with everybody in that audience on giving them all the information that you know, toe where you think, how could they not support me after I say all this? But when you when you’re trying to be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to everyone. And and that’s the That’s the thing is, um, you know, trying to avoid that. And so we have. Ah,

[00:45:05.49] spk_1:
movie trailer is a great analogy.

[00:45:08.89] spk_0:
Yeah, yeah, and And so, you know, we have a 80 20 principle. When it comes to how we share stories, we’re gonna we’re gonna 80% of it is gonna be aimed at the heart and try and create that emotional or response 20% of its going to share measurable impact and, you know, maybe dropping in a couple, you know, bullet points here and there. But, you know, if people get interested enough, they’re gonna wanna they’re gonna go seek that information out, or it won’t break the ice enough for them to ask you the questions where you can Then give them a little bit more information.

[00:45:39.79] spk_1:
Since you talked about just mentioned the heart and and then the mind following. Why don’t you tell about the elephant and the rider?

[00:45:48.79] spk_0:
Yeah. So this is this is pulled from a book that I recommend for any non profit leader called Switch by chipping Dan Heath. Uh,

[00:45:59.76] spk_1:
say it again. Yeah,

[00:46:01.44] spk_0:
sure. Switch it. Switch how to change when change is hard on it. ZB written by Chip and Dan Heath They have a consulting firm. They’re also college professors, uh, and and have written, you know, many really, really, really good books. Some of my favorites. Um, but talk about this analogy of an elephant and a writer, and the Elefant is sort of the emotional side of us. It’s the one that you know is it feels pleasure. It feels pain. It’s, you know, maybe even more intuitive. And then there’s the writer that you that is perched atop the elefant That is more the planner, the strategic, you know, person the one that likes Thio things. The container store has the answer to all of e

[00:46:57.42] spk_1:
appreciated that in the book cause I love that I happen to love the container store e o container store l fa I wait for the January sale every every I know January. I know it’s 35% off sales coming every 30 30% off sale is coming every January, even when they do the 2025% off during the year. Don’t don’t buy the Alfa then, not for January and February. They do the 30% off Alfa every year. That one that, like, Resonate, I gotta chill. Yeah, it’s the container store. All right? There’s a much more important point than the container

[00:47:28.48] spk_0:
store. No, I’m all about the Alfa to you actually weigh Need a little more organization.

[00:47:34.77] spk_1:
Oh, I love Alfa

[00:49:27.07] spk_0:
s o. You know the there’s you would think that the person person top the elephants is in control But we all know that we only have so much control atop an elephant. And if that elephant wants to move in a certain direction, it’s going to move in that direction and you’re just along for the ride. And and so you know, it’s a very simplified, uh, explanation of this elephant and writer. But you know, what they talk about in the book is what we need to do is leaders is we need thio. We need thio. Give the elephants a little bit of motivation and we need Thio inspire that elephants that it wants to go in that direction. And once it starts going in that direction, we need do everything we can to clear the path on DSO clearing the path means, you know, if you’re sharing your story, um, you know what are some misconceptions people may have about about you and what you do. Let’s clear the path by clearing up those misconceptions, but you know, more importantly, let’s let’s give there elephants a little bit of incentive to want to go with you, and that comes through the right emotion behind sharing your story and you think about the reason we’re drawn to the best novels, the best films, the best music it Tze not about the technical side of how it was produced. You know, I think we can appreciate that if we if we take the time to understand that part of it and us, you know, some of the people who have the Alfa subscription, they may geek out on that right. But the reason The reason that we continue Thio be motivated eyes because of how it makes us feel and we want it. We want to feel that whether we you know, whether we’re expecting to or not, you know it Z That’s what we remember. And it’s the way a song makes us remember our childhood or makes us remember that great love it za about how we feel and and so there are plenty of of examples of in business how that is true.

[00:50:17.16] spk_1:
Two time for our last break dot drives dot drives Engagement dot drives Relationships that Drives is the simplest donor pipeline fundraising tool. It’s customizable, collaborative, intuitive. If you want to move the needle on your prospect and donor relationships, you want stronger, deeper relationships. Get the free demo for listeners. There’s also a free month. Just go to the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for Mommy lied to God

[00:50:30.05] spk_0:
when were advertised Thio by some of the largest companies in the world. You know, they’re not They’re not speaking to our head there, speaking to our heart. They want us to feel something. Just

[00:50:44.86] spk_1:
why, Why they do what they do and less about what? What? How to describe what they do. But the why Simon Sinek talks about that, too. On dhe you you don’t reference him in the book. But I was thinking about him as I was reading. You know, he says, people, people buy why you do what you do, not what people don’t buy what you do. They buy why you do what you do.

[00:52:10.35] spk_0:
That’s right. Right. And you know, here’s the thing that nonprofits need to remember is you know, the advantage that they have over for profits is that those the why is built into what you do, and it is why you exist. It is, you know, there’s no there shouldn’t be any shortage of stories to tell if you’re doing great work. The challenge and you know, is that you know, we have to convince our boards. Uh, Thio, invest in our own story, you know, because because we don’t have the same kind of money that you know for profits do it could become a challenge and marketing and sharing our own story. It’s not invested in the way that it should be. You know, it is the one thing that will pay dividends on git is what Will will continue Thio, you know, educate an uneducated audience on your work. It’s your stories and so that that needs to be a constant investment. And I’ll say it. Share this one thing. Uh huh. Not yet. That’s my daughter. She just asked if it’s lunchtime,

[00:52:15.42] spk_1:
She wanna come over and say hello

[00:52:16.65] spk_0:
e Think she is that she just she left the room. She’s, uh eso eso. What I’ll say is, you know there are. There are there are boards that will approve things like marketing directors on DSO. Then they invest in a person, which is a great first step. But then they give them no budget to do that work. So if you have a marketing director and you’ve not given them a substantial budget, you know a significant enough budget to to be able to go out and do the work and create content to do the work. Then you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage. And so the person can’t just sit there and, you know, create things. Um, out of thin air, you know, we it takes it takes money to do that. And

[00:53:09.15] spk_1:
that’s that. That myth of do more with less? Yeah, I never I never understood that. And now I just rail against it. Uh, it annoys the hell out of me, for people suggest that we just do more with less. It’s not possible,

[00:55:14.34] spk_0:
right? It takes money to do to do the work. And, you know, and it Z you know, you’re already scrappy if you’re a non profit um, leader. But, you know, the executive director can’t be all all things you know, and they’re crucial to the mission. Their fundraising, They’re they’re they’re leading the organization, you know. But many times there also running the social media page and, you know, you’re you’re doing the job of of 10 if not more. And and so, if you’re gonna make the investment and bring in somebody If you believe that stories are important, then make it a significant part of what you dio and give it some time and see it’s going to pay dividends in the long run. You know, one when another quick example of you mentioned sharing stories. Eso There is a school foundation that I’ve worked with them actually on the board of the foundation now, so I’m working with them in a different capacity. But we created, um, a syriza vignettes for them because they do these innovative grants. And so they fund you know, these mini grants to teachers A teachers will, Will will request a certain item and right, you know, right the grant application. And then the foundation goes And how the committee they select, you know what they confined and then they find them. And so there was a a story of this a teacher that requested a string instruments for his class. And so they got, you know, it got funded. There were violence and various string instruments that that were provided to the class. And we just filmed him talking about it and film the students playing Ah nde. It was a very simple He did a great job explaining what they do. And, you know, the growth he’s seen come from from having those instruments from the students. And it was a short video the executive director, Judy Gail, had with the S A s D Foundation. Um,

[00:55:34.34] spk_1:
what’s the What’s the name of the foundation is

[00:55:53.24] spk_0:
the San Antonio It’s s a I S D Foundation, San Antonio Independent School District Foundation on. She said that video to the person who had funded that grant it was the $10,000 grant they had funded it and provided that donation through the foundation. And she said, Hey, just wanted to say thank you for for the support and wanted you to hear the story. She didn’t say, Hey, you know, we need more money. We you know, we’re desperate here. She just she just sent it with a thank you. And within an hour she got an email back from the funder that said, This is incredible. I want to talk to you about expanding this program district wide and so that the $10,000 ended up turning into $100,000 on. But it was just a simple thank you, and it was just seeing the kids and hearing the story of the educator who was trying Thio provide an innovative experience for, you know, for the kids on DSO So just just, you know, give it a shot. Use those stories on dhe and don’t ever stop sharing those stories because they’re so important to the work that you dio.

[00:56:57.83] spk_1:
Is there a lesson specifically that we can extract from the Independent School District Foundation? Story may be authentic or what? What else? What other of your tips fits in there?

[00:58:02.22] spk_0:
Yeah, I would say it’s, you know, just about, uh, understanding the importance of of just keeping your investors, uh, aware of what you’re doing through thank you’s if there if you’re commuting, if you’re communicating to them 10 times through out the year, you know, eight of those times should just be thank you’s and sharing stories, and maybe two of them are, you know, asking for money. Um, on dhe, I think one lesson you know is also that, you know, we we often times when we’re thinking about creating content or thinking about creating content for a new audience that is not invested in what we’re doing. And on dhe. That’s important. You’re always gonna have a non opportunity, should always have an opportunity to bring new people into the work that you do. But don’t forget about those who have been with you, you know, for for since the beginning or the last five years. And it’s it. It’s probably more important to keep those folks educated because, as we know in non profit world, you know, we know the same thing there because we know it is in business, which is it’s way more expensive to get a new customer than it is to keep.

[00:58:26.22] spk_1:
And even some of your donors may go back 25 30 years.

[00:59:07.42] spk_0:
That’s right, Yeah, well, and I think it’s all you know. How are you educating their airs, right? I think another huge problem that nonprofits have is that their their their funding base is aging and that the the next generation may not have the same priorities, and goals is the is the generation before them. And so what are you doing to kind of bring in some of that the new then the new leadership and maybe a balance of younger leadership and younger funders into the fold because, you know, it’s it’s important, right? Like you, you gotta you gotta constantly work at at thinking about the next, you know, 10 10 10 years.

[00:59:43.52] spk_1:
There’s also an opportunity there for potential planned GIF ts among those folks that are aging and that’s that’s what I do. We have to leave with the last story, which has to be your signature story. The title of the book comes from this signature story, so I way can’t wrap without without having that story. So I think that’s perfect. Perfect one thio end with

[00:59:51.37] spk_0:
Yeah, well, tony, you built it enough. You built it up enough to where I feel like I do have to share it for Mitt for other people have asked. I said, You know how the book got titled this in Chapter three and I want you to reach

[01:00:05.91] spk_1:
trying to buy Well, people, I’m going to say by the damn book because there’s more strategies and tips and lessons than than we were ableto touch in an hour. So, um yeah, but don’t I can’t have you hold out on non profit radio listeners. It’s not gonna mean they don’t buy the book because because there’s more. There’s more that we haven’t talked about. So you

[01:02:32.70] spk_0:
gotta get book. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Well, so the title of the books Mommy lied to God and s 01 of the best lessons that I got when I started doing stand up was from a friend of mine who at the time used my roommate. And hey said, Look, if you’re going to start writing comedy, you need to write about yourself on DB because it won’t sound like what everybody else is trying to say. And eso it’ll always be true to you. And when you perform it, you’re gonna perform it with just a different level of energy because it comes from a place of truth, right? Absolutely. Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. And so, you know, it made a lot of sense to me on dhe. That is one of the characteristics of authentic storytelling. And so you know, when you’re when you’re sharing your story or when you’re presenting, you know, you pulling from your own experience is really important. The hard thing for me at that time is that experience was I was going through a divorce. And so how was I going to make an audience laugh about the most painful thing that had happened to me up into that point. And I think when I had the roommate, I was I wasn’t even divorced yet. I was separated. So I’m talking about raw. I’m not talking about, like, thinking about 10. You know, even five years. It was It was I was going through it. And, uh, so, you know, I decided to do it. I’d give it a shot. And so, you know, I wrote a couple of jokes like this, and it was like I going through. Ah, divorce. I wanted to work things out, but her boyfriend wasn’t willing to compromise. You know, let me see you on Wednesdays and every other weekend, you know, give me a month or in the summer, you know, stuff like that on dhe on, then you know the money, like God was, you know, look, the hardest thing about going through a divorce is being a single dat. Any single dad will tell you that if your kid doesn’t get what they want automatically, they start crying for their mom. I said okay. He was really upset. I said, I’m just going to talk to him. I said, Son, I know you miss your mommy, but Mommy doesn’t live here anymore. It’s like, Why, Daddy? It’s like, Well, Mommy and Daddy stood up in front of a room full of all our friends and family, and Mommy vowed before God to be with Daddy till death do us part. But see, Daddy’s still alive, honey. And that’s right, Mommy Live thio. So I got I got quickly down as the you know, the bitter mommy lied to God. Comedian, right, The bitter divorce guy. And the thing about it is, you know, there’s a lot more thio the material. But, you know, the thing that differentiated me was the thing that that connected me with the audience of people who maybe had been through a divorce themselves or their parents were divorced, or at least any. But everybody knows someone who’s been divorced, right? And so those were the folks that were laughing the loudest on DDE. You know, I wanna I wanna give a disclaimer for one. I never actually said Mommy. I never told my son that, in fact, you know, he, uh, he only heard the joke recently when I was in its because I wrote this book and the book was coming out right And I could have easily entitled the book. Daddy lied to God. I could have done that, but But the reason that I was mommy lied to God was just That was a part of my experience. And I told myself up If I ever write a book, you know, it’s gonna be called Mommy lie to God on dhe. I think that you know, it Tze important to think about those things in our lives that, you know we naturally may shy away from and know that, you know, sometimes embracing them on Dhe using them to push ourselves forward is like the best thing that we can dio on dso it was, you know, comedy was cheaper than therapy for me. I probably should have been in therapy. And I don’t advise that if you should be in therapy that used to stand up instead way probably all know comedians that air like, Wow, you really need to talk to somebody. Uh, thats a professional, um but But the reason that it’s true to my story is that you know, through that experience. You know, it’s led to the work that I do now on. Did you know I truly believe in the power of sharing us your story, no matter where it came from?

[01:05:10.69] spk_1:
Carlos. My estas? Get the book. Mommy lied to God. Life lessons in authentic storytelling He’s founder and chief story Smith at key ideas. It’s at key ideas dot net and at Key Ideas Inc. And he is at key ideas. Carlos Carlos, Thank you so much. Wonderful.

[01:05:21.22] spk_0:
Thank you so much. Tony has been great talking with you and hopefully we can stay in touch. Real

[01:05:26.94] spk_1:
pleasure. I’d love to. Absolutely. Thank you.

[01:05:29.69] spk_0:
Alright, tony. Take care.

[01:05:58.09] spk_1:
Next week. Brian Saber from asking Matters Returns with his new book were sponsored by Turn to Communications, PR and Content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Talk about storytelling. Do it, Do it for the media and by dot drives raise more money changed more lives. Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant our creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty, be with me next week for non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% gloat and be great, I’m it.

Nonprofit Radio for October 19, 2020: Virtual Volunteering & Artists Sunday

My Guests:

Elizabeth Neufeld: Virtual Volunteering

During the resurging pandemic—and after—there are smart ways to keep your volunteers engaged virtually. What’s this got to do with the movie, “Miracle on 34th Street?” Elizabeth Neufeld shares her thinking. She’s CEO and founder of Strat Labs.

 

 

Chris Sherman: Artists Sunday

Chris Sherman crafted this day of artistry that follows Thanksgiving and precedes Giving Tuesday. He explains what it’s about and how you can join the movement.

 

 

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[00:01:56.54] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non proper radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with Leuco play Kia if you rubbed me with the idea that you missed today’s show Virtual volunteering during the Resurging Pandemic and after there are smart ways to keep your volunteers engaged virtually. What’s this got to do with the movie Miracle on 34th Street? Elizabeth Neufeld shares her thinking. She’s CEO and founder of Strat Labs and Artists. Sunday. Chris Sherman crafted this day of artistry that follows Thanksgiving and precedes giving Tuesday. He explains what it’s about and how you can join the movement. Antonis, take two planned giving accelerator were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives, raise more money, changed more lives. Tony-dot- M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and free month. Let’s get started with virtual volunteering. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show. Elizabeth New Felt. She is CEO and founder of Strat Labs, supporting change agents in every corner of the globe by telling and marketing their stories. Her background is in operations, program development, community engagement, strategic marketing and communications. The company is at Strat labs dot us and at the Strat Labs. Elizabeth is at Lizzie Neuf. Any us on Instagram? Lizzie, welcome to the show.
[00:02:03.84] spk_0:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I’m happy to be here.
[00:02:12.84] spk_1:
Absolutely pleasure. It’s good to have you were talking about virtual volunteering. You You have a post on this? Eso
We’re gonna talk through it, though, and we’ll get into more detail. Um, you’re just basically I imagine sprung from not wanting to lose contact with our volunteers who are more accustomed to being live face to face kind of volunteers. Yes,
[00:02:32.60] spk_0:
we had a lot of people reach out right when things were shifting and it was going to become clear across the country
that volunteerism it was going to take a turn in terms of how we were going to be able to volunteer during a global pandemic. When a lot of non profits rely on actual physical bodies and hands to get their work done on DWI started kind of quickly digging into what that was gonna look like we work with a lot of nonprofits, but we also work with a lot of social enterprises and companies that have pretty robust volunteer programs where they’re partnering with nonprofits and they rely on it for both. They reliant for employee engagement as well. A ZX, the nonprofits relying on the actual volunteer. So this was a big thing for us. We wanted. We wanted to dive in.
[00:03:21.34] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s increasingly popular. Ah, very common now that companies want their employees to be engaged with the
non profit with their non private partners as part of sponsorship or, you know, is part of giving. I’m hearing more about that. It seems much more common now.
[00:03:40.14] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s it’s incredible. I mean, we we hear it from almost everyone that we work with, that they want some kind of
employee engagement program that involves volunteering and the nonprofits that we work with. They tell us the same thing on the other side is that they don’t just want sponsorship dollars anymore. They want that, you know, employee

engagement. They really want to buy in. And that becomes increasingly more difficult when we’re living in such a virtual world because you know a lot of that employee engagement in those volunteers. It’s it’s about the community that they build and the community in that engagement, and they do that in person. You know, it’s meant as a team building activity, so it becomes more difficult. But we’ve been working on it with our clients and and really studying and researching and trying to come up with different ways and people can engage. And, you know, I think something to know in something that was It’s been very interesting to me is that the value of the volunteer hour is valued currently at $27.20 and that’s up 7% from 2019. So even in the midst of this global pandemic, the value of the volunteer hours still going up, which means it’s still relevant and it’s still necessary
[00:04:54.34] spk_1: who values that time
[00:05:04.44] spk_0:
that was done by the independent sector and the Do Good Institute. They put out what they put out a wonderful
survey, and they and research around it and what they actually break it down by state, and it shows you how much your state has the volunteer, our value, Dad. It’s pretty impressive e.
[00:05:24.94] spk_1:
All right. So one of the things that you recommend for ah, virtual volunteering is putting together a lobbying campaign.
[00:06:00.11] spk_0:
Yeah, you know, if your organization is involved in a particular issue and things have kind of been on pause, whether
you know, human service is that you’re a habit to had scaled back during this time. You know, one thing that you can do is and I don’t mean lobbying necessarily in the formal sense of being coming a lobbyist because that comes with other, you know, issues and complications as it relates to the 501 C three status. But just more in terms of getting your cause out there on a broader scale, really, really making a case for support for your cause. So it doesn’t necessarily even have to be for your organization, but just for your cost. So if you work with people that are homeless and you want to talk about this issue of homelessness in America, you know, bond together with other organizations that are doing similar work and come up with a campaign or a cause that helps you advocate and lobby for these issues.
[00:06:24.34] spk_1:
And so you would you would be encouraging your folks to do what kind of stuff for you.
[00:06:32.40] spk_0:
Ah, lot of times executive directors they want toe. They want to do this work and they want a partner with other like
minded organizations around the country around the world. They just don’t have the time. So if you can utilize your volunteers to dig in and assign a couple volunteers to become thes advocates, they become more of a global policy advocate, then necessarily for your specific cause and get them excited about it. So if you’re dealing, you work with people with disabilities, you know, encourage them and get them started with a list of organizations that you’ve always wanted to connect with and go after those organizations and come up with a platform that gets the conversation around disability out there in the world in a bigger way.
[00:07:26.34] spk_1:
Or if you work with Children. I mean, there’s all kinds of different Children’s causes, Uh, s So this is related to
something else you recommend, which is encouraging. Volunteering at other organizations. Yeah, cool. I love this is like this reminded me of Miracle on 34th Street. Macy’s recommending gimbals.
[00:07:34.04] spk_0:
Yes, absolutely so We saw this a lot in the beginning of things starting to shut down in March and April where, you
know, employees were at home and they were furloughed and they were on, you know, they were on hold, they didn’t know what they were going to do. And we heard of a couple different groups and some clients saying, We’re going to recommend that are employees go out and volunteer with other organizations because, you know, meals need to be delivered still, and, you know, people need to be checked on in some capacity, and so we’re gonna make up a list of company or organizations that we no need bodies, and we don’t have that need right now. And we’re gonna push that out, tow our volunteers and our staff and ask them to contribute it. It’s really a beautiful, you know, kind of coming together. I’m still hearing about it quite a bit. I’m hearing it more on the corporate side where, you know, if an organization that they were supporting is no longer accepting in person volunteers, they’re getting referred to do other work with other groups.
[00:08:44.84] spk_1:
Yeah, and of course, you’re gonna get the gratitude of those other organizations. Dio. Yeah, so talk about
collaborating and trusting each other, working together. You know, that’s yeah, it’s beautiful, really. That’s very savvy

on. Did you know it happens organically? You said, you know, it was just organizations were thinking of this. We may as well. We have this talent. We have these folks who are motivated. We may as well refer them where the need is if we don’t have it any longer. Yeah,
[00:08:58.55] spk_0:
no, it’s true. Really organic.
[00:09:02.34] spk_1:
What’s another? Another idea for virtual volunteering.
[00:09:05.50] spk_0:
Yeah, so another thing that I We’ve been working with a lot of our clients just gearing up for annual campaign season
on this end of year. Giving is that, you know, with older volunteers so those that may be closer to retirement or in their retirement and are volunteering with organizations but don’t feel comfortable being in person. We’re really encouraging a robust writing letter writing campaign for the for end of your giving. So not just asking them to write letters to group of people, but to come up with their own messaging to come up with their own sort of passion and their plea, and to set some goals around it, you know? Is it 50 a week? Is that 100 letters a week? But you can really cover quite a bit in terms of a mailing list with personal letters, and I think the impact this year on on end of your giving is gonna be tremendous. So if you get that personal letter in the mail, I think it’s going to mean a lot more this year than it ever has before. People are missing that connection and that touch and and the, you know, the campaigns of old will not no longer be, you know, able to kind of just be a letter that they get that’s printed on, you know, and looks good and has the right graphics. There’s gonna have to be that personal touch.
[00:10:48.94] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They help you build relationships with journalists because of a
relationship started by turn to and nurtured the New York Community Trust got to features in The Wall Street Journal. That’s the value of relationships with journalists turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners, Peter Pan A. Pento, was an editor at The Chronicle of philanthropy. I like saying his name. Peter Pan, a pento. Lovely. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo now back to virtual volunteering
[00:10:58.54] spk_0:
for younger generations were kind of encouraging a similar idea, however, we’re looking at it, utilizing the tools that
they’re used to working with. So, for example, we’re taking younger volunteers, and we’re asking them to engage and do community management on social media. So a big thing that our clients often says, I just don’t have time. Thio interact with people on social media. And that’s how you get a following. And so similar to writing a hand written letter, we’re asking people to reach out to influencers in their space that they think would be interested in their cause on Bright them a direct message on Instagram or Facebook, Um, leave comments on different peoples pages and mention your organization in the comments so that people will potentially refer back. So we’re trying to think of things for every age range of volunteers because we know that you know, handwriting. A letter may not be something that a 20 something you know here wants to dio,
[00:11:54.54] spk_1:
but for somebody who’s 65 or 70 that’s ideal. Eso. What kind of support do we need to give you? Need a resource
Page? Uh, messaging. What? What,
[00:12:04.24] spk_0: you have to
[00:12:04.55] spk_1:
give these folks thio support them?
[00:12:07.04] spk_0:
Yes. So when people are developing their annual campaign and they’re really looking at, how are we going to utilize
volunteers right now, at this time of year, something that we’re recommending that they do is come up with that list of assets that they’re going to need to send every volunteer in a folder. And so for some volunteers, you’re gonna want to send that directly in the mail so that they have a hard copy of it, and some you’re gonna be able to send them a link to a you know, a folder through Google or whatever you may use, whatever your platform is. But you want to include photos. You want to include case statements, um, you know, call the actions and then let them pick what they what is most interesting to them? We’re encouraging people to come up with at least the recall. The actions that they can pick from that will suit them in terms of there’s kind of an overarching called action and there’s these sub called actions on Dhe that’s filters into a bigger campaign. So for letter writing, and that’s really important on Dhe, then in terms of managing it, you know, everybody should get their own list and they should be working off a list, and there should be

no overlap with those lists. I mean, not that it would be bad to get two letters from an organization, but you want to make sure, and you try to line people up with people that they’re connected to, whether that’s geographically or because they were a donor, that they knew at some point are, you know, you try to make that happen. There is quite a bit of process that goes into it, but you’re it’s October, so you have some time to plan that out.
[00:13:28.54] spk_1:
What are some of these calls to action that you see?
[00:13:31.54] spk_0:
Um, well, you know, this year we’re still working on a lot of those. I mean, obviously the big one being to donate, But it
depends on the organization. So ah, lot of our organizations, they’re saying that they really want to use this time to build their mailing lists and to build their following online, and so we’re including that in a potential call the action. So beyond just asking for dollars, we’re actually including that, you know, in the past that may have been Come volunteer with us or set up a volunteer day with your company or your community, and we just don’t know if that’s going to be possible this winter. So we have to kind of get creative and think of ways to engage with people online.
[00:14:08.44] spk_1:
Something else you suggested is ah, listening campaign.
[00:14:11.84] spk_0:
Yeah, I think this is really important right now. You know, we’re I feel like we did a lot of this in the spring and I think it
needs toe happen again. Right now we’re doing this right now with the Girl Scouts of Colorado and it’s been we haven’t we actually are just sending it up today, and I’m really curious to kind of see what comes back. But it’s going thio help inform how the organization moves forward starting in January and with a listening campaign. What you’re trying to determine is, you know what? Where are people right now? How can you show up for them? This relates specifically to volunteers. So, you know, they were used to working with your organization for so many years, or even maybe if they had just started. But they’re sort of, Ah, deflation. That comes, you know, that has come in the last few months with not having in person engagement. And so you want to really here where they’ve been? Have they been impacted by cove? It have they lost their job? Are they gonna When things turn around, will they be able to continue to volunteer with? You were looking at all of those things to help us better understand how we can communicate with volunteers so that when things do open up a bit more, we conserve their needs. Justus Muchas. We want them to serve the community.
[00:16:01.44] spk_1:
I wonder if there are ways to that. You can get the volunteers together now. I’m thinking, Well, you know, I I do plan to
giving fundraising. So volunteers that we work with are usually 70 and over, but I don’t think it’s restricted to that. But volunteers look forward to the community. You know that their community of volunteers, even if I’m a community, could be four or five people and I’m not talking about 100. But, you know, they look forward to that time together Twice a week. They’re doing something together, or once a month, whatever it is, and they’ve lost that. So I wonder if there’s a way to that You could rekindle that community online for folks Thio keep in touch with their fellow volunteers.
[00:16:07.56] spk_0:
Yeah, we we have recommended and we’ve set up a few of these, um, ambassador programs, volunteer ambassador
programs, And they actually they’re great because I think every organization really should be thinking about doing this. We do this. This came from the social enterprise world from the for profit world and that people would bring together ambassadors to help them sell product or to get their name out into the world. But there’s no reason that the nonprofit world shouldn’t do this on day. One of the organizations that I’ve worked with the range of Motion project does an amazing job with this, and I think they have maybe 50 ambassadors right now. It could be wrong on that number. Uh, the range of motion project
[00:16:49.59] spk_1: Colorado Denver area.
[00:16:51.22] spk_0:
They’re actually a global organization. They do have an office in Colorado. But they serve individuals, um, that are in
need of prosthetic devices around the world and the the website for its romp global DOT or GE. But they’re pretty incredible because they started this ambassador program a few years ago, and it has just grown every year. And it’s not just online, like there is a component of it that lives online. But there is this community that has been built around it, and in an age when we can’t get together, they are leaning on the online piece of it. And so that can include setting up a private Facebook group for those individuals or email group that you could just send constant email communication. Thio. I know that some of them not just wrong, but I know other organizations have, ah, text chain with their ambassadors, and you know, it’s it’s These are people that are out there talking about their organization and

doing good for them and also raising money for them on. But it’s also a great way to get Presas Well. A lot of these ambassadors come to the organization or these volunteers with good stories, and some of those stories could be shared in the press. Um, in a way that, you know, while it relates back to the organization, it has a real personal feel which the press love.
[00:18:24.64] spk_1:
Yeah, right. So, again, that’s Romp romp, Global Motion program romp global Dot or GE. I’m Global. Okay. I love that
ramp. Romper Room? Yes, exactly. I’m old enough to have grown up with Romper Room. What was her name, Miss? Uh, you know, I think I went to the studio once too. I
[00:18:26.41] spk_0: think I was
[00:18:26.74] spk_1:
in the Romper Room studio. I’m pretty sure I did her and I did. Bob McAllister to On What the heck was he? Bob
McAllister.
[00:18:34.24] spk_0:
There’s one generation above me, e I know of it.
[00:18:39.42] spk_1:
Wonder what the heck was Bob McAllister? He was the host of something. I was on him. But then Romper Room was
Yeah, I miss I don’t know, Miss Kelly or something. Can’t remember. Oh, uh, if anybody remembers should be any tony at tony-martignetti dot com. What was the name of the lady on Romper Room? I’m sure I could find it, But who’s that host? The woman who hosted Romper Room. She was like a kindergarten teacher. She
[00:19:02.22] spk_2: was It was
[00:19:13.74] spk_1:
wonderful. It was It was a romper room. Um, yeah. So Okay, back Thio. Sorry. So, um 1965 digression. Um on de So
when you have thes when you’re putting these folks together, I mean, what’s your role, like keeping in touch with them too, Or like, if their ambassadors for you, you know, how do you How often do you wanna be in touch with them? Like thanking them, seeing how they’re doing, asking if they need coaching or help or anything like that. What’s your role in keeping it keeping it going once you’ve given them tools in the platform?
[00:19:36.97] spk_0:
That’s a great question. I’d say that the issue that we see the most is that our clients will set up an ambassador
program, and then it will fall apart shortly after nobody is managing the community. So our suggestion is that at least once a week, at the very minimum, there should be some kind of prompt that goes into the Facebook group are on email that asked people to respond, and then in a non going weekly basis, we’re asking and this could be another volunteer role. This could be a volunteer that manages the community. That’s a little bit meta, but it’s meant to, you know, if there’s a real superstar volunteer, get them to be the community manager and have the manages ambassadors because you do wanna be interacting with them at the minimum on a weekly basis. But the idea is that you want to be giving them a prompt. It will further communication and conversation among them and then also a call the action eso You know whether or not that’s, you know, doing a funny video around, um, there cause that is, maybe at home and then they can all post if they all do. A video community edited together. Um, you could do these like, you know, have them set up a virtual fundraiser for the organization, and they do it together. They’re doing it in there, you know, group. They could also go out for press. You know that as a group they could go out for press. They could set a challenge for the community, like a running challenge or climbing challenge or a swimming challenge. Um, you know, they can also be tasked with being, you know, kind of doing what we talked about before with social media, which is going through and tagging celebrities and news outlets and kind of getting their name out there. But there needs to be someone at the helm who condemn erect some of that. And I recommend in this day and age that that person should also be a volunteer. It’s a great time that
[00:21:34.36] spk_1:
seems like the gold standard. Like if you can get a volunteer who’s that engaged, then you know they could take it the
way the fellow volunteers, you know, it’ll be easy. It’ll just just be a little friendlier, like then the organization like looking over your shoulder. You know, even if it’s a friendly relationship, you know, it’s just better if it’s self managed.
[00:21:42.44] spk_0:
Yeah, and we recommend to get them together. I mean, this has to happen virtually this year, but so I think it’s great.

Get them together. You send them some kind of fun box or something, you know, prior to their virtual retreat, and do a retreat where they plan out their activities for the next you know, 12 months. So we’re recommending people do that November, December, and maybe you send, you know, like some cookies or some You know something you know, to kind of get them ready, A stress ball. But you’re gonna be online for two hours. And you guys were gonna plan the month, you know, every month, an ambassador related activity again, these air volunteers. But this is kind of the way we have to think through, You know, the new age of volunteerism, given what we’re living and that you can’t necessarily show but a warehouse and pack boxes or ship meals out for people you know or deliver things. So you have to think of these other things. And I do think it can spanned generations to I know it probably sounds, given that a lot of it’s online, that it would only be for the younger generation. But we’ve seen that. You know, the older generation likes this Justus much. They want that opportunity to connect online their home, probably even more than the younger generation with less opportunity to connect. So Zoom has become, um, you know, a fixture in my mom’s life, and she’s 70 something years old. It’s also become a picture of my grandmother’s life, and she is 90 something years old so they’ve even become accustomed to this new way, and I think it’s important to provide that during the day.
[00:23:10.04] spk_1:
That’s great. You still have your grandmother,
[00:23:13.85] spk_0: Your 100. 0 my God, I’m
[00:23:57.44] spk_1:
so lucky to have them. That’s wonderful. Yeah, I have been hearing that zoom and even just some some older folks
who didn’t even have email or had an email but never used it. You know, in the first few months it wasn’t really catching on. And But as things dragged on and now sort of a resurgence, Um, I think folks have caught on that the only real way to keep in touch on a good frequent basis is going to be online. So they’ve they’ve adopted. They’ve they’ve adopted online work more than they were like March, April, even may some. It’s become more, a lot more. A lot more popular. Yeah, in really just the past, like 33 months or so, Yeah,
[00:24:06.40] spk_0:
we’ve seen some good multi generation programs pop up using utilizing volunteers where in old the older generation
might lead a class like an on going class. Maybe it’s monthly or every other week for a younger generation. We specifically saw this in the arts? Quite a bit. We had to art clients, clients that worked in the arts. And they utilized this format. And it worked really well where they were utilizing this sort of this older generation, um, to help teach some of the classes that would have otherwise been in person and being taught, you know, by someone else, Um, that had availability at three o’clock on a, you know, Thursday. But this was being done, you know? You know, at any time they could schedule at any time, and people from around the country were signing in to be part of it.
[00:24:53.34] spk_1:
What else? What else you wanna talk about around virtual volunteering?
[00:25:06.24] spk_0:
No, I think, um, you know, another idea would be, um, e just looking at something. So another idea I have, in terms of
virtual volunteering is really you know, that thinking through that the staff at these organizations are being test, but there’s been a lot of cutbacks. We’re hearing that, you know, staff have been reduced quite a bit at nonprofits just to stay afloat. And so ah, lot of staff that these organizations are taking on task that they may not feel qualified for, or even just the amount of work that they have is, you know, increasing on a daily basis. And so you can utilize volunteers to come in and help with, you know, administration. And doing that online is pretty easy. You know, whether that’s entering gifts, um, into a database where it’s cleaning up databases in preparation for an annual campaign or, you know, all the things that used Thio. You know, we’re kind of given that people would dio, but not not necessarily. You know, you may think like, well, I can’t do that because they can’t be in person, so I can’t teach them. But I think set up a meeting with them on Zoom. Show them how to do it, share your screen, give them access to the database or the system and let them help you Really, with that process piece, because ultimately, when we head into 21 it’s gonna be really important that people have a very strong volunteer process in place in order to maximize the benefit for that. For those that group of people
[00:26:36.54] spk_1:
so basically looking Thio use volunteers to fill gaps in expertise that maybe you’ve always had. Or maybe now you
newly have because you have the you have to let let folks go which tragic to start with. But the reality is, the work still needs to get done.
[00:26:43.39] spk_0:
Yes, absolutely. With everybody working at home in the in these companies, there’s actually a lot more access to them

and a lot of ways because they are at home and so they need to jump on, you know, a 30 minutes, um called to hear about a project that they could potentially take on for you as a volunteer. They may have more availability than they would if they were in meetings all day or they were off site, and then they had to come meet you somewhere. So in some ways it has provided a lot more connection that otherwise would have been harder to dio.
[00:27:14.24] spk_1:
We got time for one more.
[00:27:19.74] spk_0:
One more idea. Well, the other thing I was going to say, and I think this kind of gets lost in the mix, and this probably
should have been one of the first things I mentioned, but, you know, I think it’s important is we talk about process and how we you know and developing process so that you’re ready to go for next year. I think setting goals for your volunteers is a really, you know, strong way to approach a volunteer program. Eso even if the if the if you choose this Met, I like smart goals. I think that those air really helpful And I think, you know, just provides volunteers with additional motivation for donating time so you could do that in the form of incentives. Um, you can create opportunities for volunteers toe lead kind of what we were just talking about. Either you’re an ambassador program or even helping out in the case of staff that have been, you know, had to let go and they’ve got to take over. But I think if you’re if you set goals, however, you choose to do them, you know, I think it will give you a benchmark, um, for how to measure whether or not these volunteer programs or successful. They know the larger organizations have that because they have a person dedicated to volunteer management. But these smaller organizations don’t always do that, and I think it’s really critical.
[00:29:02.34] spk_1:
Okay, start with goals. Yeah, that’s right. It wasn’t the first thing you said, but we got there. And by the way, Bob
McAllister’s program was wonder Rama e thought of it. I did not Look it up, wasn’t I Wouldn’t do that while we’re talking e I still need to know who who ran Romper Room. Okay, She’s Elizabeth Elizabeth. Lizzie Neufeld. The company is Strat Labs. They’re at Strat labs dot us and at the Strat Labs. And she is at Lizzie nuf on instagram. You’re not on Twitter, Lizzie?
[00:29:07.49] spk_0:
Not really. Okay, hard. I got two little kids and I got I have to prioritize my social media, which I don’t even like to begin
with.
[00:29:16.21] spk_1:
All right? So people, people will find join instagram. Sounds good. You got You got lots of ups. You got lots of kids
pictures on instagram.
[00:29:23.04] spk_0: Yes. Okay.
[00:29:24.84] spk_1:
Thank you very much for sharing all these ideas. Thanks very much, Lizzy. Thank
[00:29:28.15] spk_0:
you so much pleasure to be here.
[00:33:26.84] spk_1:
Good to have you. Thank you. Time for our last break. Dot drives drives engagement dot drives Relationships that
drives is the simplest donor pipeline fundraising tool. It’s customizable. It’s collaborative. It’s intuitive. If you want to move the needle on your prospect and don’t relationships check out the free demo for listeners. There’s also a free month. You go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. It’s time for Tony’s Take two. Start your plan giving in 2021 with planned giving accelerator. I launched planned giving accelerator because I want to see a bunch. I want to see 1000 or 1500 new plan giving programs in the U. S. And when those each scale up to 100 new gif ts and knowing that the average charitable bequest in the U. S. Is $35,000 right? That’s a minimum of 3.5 billion new plan giving dollars for nonprofits. That’s what I want to do in planned giving accelerator. How are we going to do it together? We’re gonna get your program started in 2021. I’m gonna have live trainings. Of course they’ll be recorded. So if you can’t make the live naturally, we’re gonna do ask me anything sessions in small groups, I’m gonna have an exclusive podcast, not tony-martignetti non profit radio. That’s a fabulous podcast. We’ll have Justus fabulous of podcast, but it will be exclusively for members of the accelerator, just like the trainings. And they ask me anything sessions and the Facebook community that we’re gonna have. So there’s gonna be networking and learning from others who are in the community as well. That’s plan giving, accelerator. We’re gonna get your plan giving started in 2021. Like get this off your to do list. Do it together. I’m going to teach you everything I know about how to start and

grow your plan giving program. I’ve been doing this since 1997. Starting plan, giving programs, consulting in it since 2003. But since the very beginning, that’s all I do. At first, I was a frontline fundraiser, director of planned giving throughout my 23 years in planned giving. That’s all I’ve done start programs. So I know how to do it. They’re successful. Programs that I’ve worked with have raised over $100 million. You’re not going to get $100 million at least not in the first year. But I have a long record doing this with startup programs. I know how to get it started for you. I know what to do in the beginning so that in 35 10 years from now you’ve got the plan giving program you want. It’s all that planned giving accelerator dot com First class starts in January. Check it out. Join on def. Not even for the organization. You know, for your non profit forgetting that program started, think about it as to professional development. If you don’t know much about planned giving or anything about planned giving, consider it professional development. You’re gonna learn you’re gonna learn how to start a program. You learn the basics of planned giving so you can expand your career. A ZX well again. Planned giving accelerator dot com Check it out. Any questions? You can contact me through that page. Take a look. Plan giving accelerator that is tony. Stick to We’ve got a single butt cheek of time left. Here is artists Sunday. It’s a pleasure to welcome Chris Sherman to non profit radio. He’s founder of Artists Sunday. The Oranges at Artists Sunday, calm and at artists Sunday. Chris is at C V. Sherman. Chris Sherman. Welcome to non profit radio.
[00:33:29.24] spk_2:
Thank you, Tony. Good to be here.
[00:33:33.24] spk_1:
Pleasure. Good to have you. Let’s start with the obvious question. What is artists Sunday
[00:33:59.94] spk_2:
In a very good question, it is. So it’s essentially think of Black Friday or small business Saturday. But for the arts so
small business Saturday is the Saturday after Thanksgiving, black Friday and Friday after Thanksgiving. Artist Sunday is the Sunday after Thanksgiving, and the whole idea is to shop with artists and shop for something hand made on that day. Something handmade, uh, all kinds of art. So your traditional heart argued, Hang on the wall, something you put on your bookshelf to something you wear something that you take with you a wide variety of art. It is available through artist Sunday on artists from across the country.
[00:34:17.64] spk_1:
Okay, eso as the Sunday after Thanksgiving, where you have you have a lot of people traveling that day. So are you.
Are you among the travel advisers saying, Don’t travel on Sunday either go Saturday or Monday
[00:34:55.52] spk_2:
because that is that that is the one drawback to that particular Sunday. Actually, what we’re saying is we’re using
Sunday is the anchor. It’s not necessarily the day you have to shut up. You can’t certainly, and there will be certain promotions that are going on from artists and our agencies across the country. But just like Black Friday is not on Friday any longer. Artist Sunday is really just an anchor, so the idea is for you to shop with artists sometime during that time period for the holidays.
[00:35:05.14] spk_1:
Have you used giving Tuesday as, ah, model,
[00:35:10.04] spk_2:
giving Tuesday and small business Saturday. I’ve looked pretty much in our models for this process, and what we’re
doing is we’re saying it’s free to artists to participate, given the tool kit. Looks like you get if you were, you know, giving Tuesday or small business Saturday. And so it’s free to the artists and it’s free to nonprofits that support artists.
[00:35:31.44] spk_1:
Okay, good. I was just gonna ask about organizations joining as well.
[00:35:36.24] spk_2:
Exactly. So organizations are invited to join across the country. We’ve got organizations that are participating with
more joining every day. Those could be art district’s could be cities. Could be counties could be states. Could the chambers of commerce could be private organizations, non profits that support the arts in some way, shape or form anything from churches. Thio associations are invited to join and promote this to their artists and get their artists involved. And they get this tool kit as well that they can s so it’s really kind of a turnkey solution. You basically give them a tool kit to help them market, help them work with their artists to get them out there in public exposure. And then we do a national. We’re doing a national PR campaign to to tell consumers about this as well.
[00:36:39.37] spk_1:

Now you’re also competing. Besides travel, you’re competing with God. This is This is our day of is a day of rest for a lot of people. That’s true. What do you say to the? Okay. Okay. You have an answer. I know you have an answer. Uh, okay. Competing with God is a big, you know. That’s a big deal.
[00:36:46.73] spk_2:
I don’t know if we’re competing with God. We’re working.
[00:36:49.40] spk_1:
God. Okay. He’s Is he blessed this He’s giving you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, you’ve got God on your side.
Then you’re not competing at all. He’s in a field. God’s an affiliate member.
[00:37:00.97] spk_2: That’s true. He’s a partner.
[00:37:10.53] spk_1:
Okay? He listed should be listed among your partners. Yes, alongside God. I saw a lot of government agencies or
agencies or I don’t know how you would agencies. I get a counties, counties. I saw a couple of states I think to
[00:37:51.73] spk_2:
right. We’ve got, I think, 10 or 11 states now with regards to government agencies. I mean, there are 4000 art district
according to the national damage for the arts on. And, you know, we’re working with as many of those as possible signing. There’s many because as possible to join us. This is obviously the first year. But the whole idea is to have this take on a life of its own and become, you know, a Christmas Sorry Thanksgiving holiday tradition. Are
[00:37:51.87] spk_1:
you an artist? Is that what created?
[00:38:27.62] spk_2:
Yeah, Yeah, came to mind as last year on Artist Sunday, the Sunday after Thanksgiving, I saw a boost in sales and
thought, Wait a minute. This is kind of curious. There should be a day for artists for this kind of stuff, you know? So so that’s really kind of how the idea came about. And in addition to being a photographer, I’m also an entrepreneur, so I’m gonna kind of brought the two together, bringing my photography and the entrepreneurial experience Thio create the other Sunday. Is
[00:38:27.78] spk_1:
there a space in here for performing artists?
[00:38:30.72] spk_2:
Sure. Certainly so. Experiential artists performing artists, however you might determine them, uh, this year with that
maybe kind of difficult for them Thio, you know, in the theaters being closed in that type of thing. But certainly for musicians being able to sell their work, whether it’s a downloader CD if people still buy CDs that cut, uh, can certainly participate as well as visual.
[00:38:54.00] spk_1:
Okay, something outdoors is conceivable, Uh, whether if the weather permits in November, if you’re in the Southern
tier, it could be an outdoor performance.
[00:39:04.52] spk_2:
Exactly. And we actually have actually have a group with a traveling piano. I don’t know the name there somewhere out
of the West Coast, but they’ll do outdoor performances and a piano on a flat bed or something like that. And you know, the commune with nature and God and, uh, music.
[00:39:28.82] spk_1:
So folks who are interested they should go to artists sunday dot com
[00:39:52.32] spk_2:
Correct? Yep, we’ve got over 1000 participants. We’ve got 930 some artists. We’ve got 188 nonprofit organizations
across the country that are participating in war, signing up every day and you know we hope to have several 1000 by by artist Sunday by Thanksgiving time frame
[00:40:38.11] spk_1:
All right, well, hope non profit radio audience helps you hope listeners. Check it out. Artist. Sunday Thank You, Chris

artists sunday dot com and at artists Sunday, and Chris is at C. V. Sherman. Chris Sherman. Thanks very much And good luck. I hope you get those thousands thousands next week. Mommy lied to God with Carlos Mestas were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money, changed more lives tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and a free month. Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty. Here with me next week for non profit radio, big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Special Episode: Tech Equity

My Guest:

Amy Sample Ward: Tech Equity

Amy Sample Ward

NTEN has a new guide on equity for nonprofit technology, to deepen the racial equity conversation. To explore and reveal intersecting inequities between technology and nonprofits. You know who my guest is. You know who it has to be. Amy Sample Ward, NTEN’s CEO and our technology contributor.

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[00:01:31.24] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. This is a special episode of non profit radio to help you be the change around racism and white privilege. Tech Equity and 10 has a new guide on equity for non profit technology to deepen the racial equity conversation to explore and reveal intersecting inequities between technology and non profits. You know who my guest is? You know who it has to be. It’s a me sample ward and tends CEO and our technology contributor response erred by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives, raise more money, change more lives for a free demo and a free month. It’s my pleasure. Always a privilege to welcome Amy Sample Ward to the show. She is our social media and technology contributor and CEO of her most recent co authored book is social Change Anytime everywhere, which is actually running a little old Now you’ve been resting on that laurel for a while.

[00:01:34.73] spk_0:
I was gonna say the same thing. I was gonna say, Gosh, I just looked at the book the other day and saw how many years ago that came out. I think we have to like, we gotta find some other filler sentence for that intro.

[00:01:48.29] spk_1:
Oh, you don’t want to write a new book. We just

[00:01:50.23] spk_0:
What? What? What is there? What would I write a book about? You know?

[00:01:56.14] spk_1:
Oh, you’re a bright person. Oh, there’s more to say about technology. You could go deeper into technology subject, but it’ll be a lot easier if tony-martignetti just changed your intro.

[00:02:06.05] spk_0:
Yeah, then there’s no like writing.

[00:02:16.94] spk_1:
Alright. No six months of writing, collaborating, finding publishers. None of that imagine. Imagine the eat that I could let you off the hook with on Dhe. You’ll find her, of course, at Amy Sample Ward dot or GE and at a me RS ward, the not so recent author. Any simple words?

[00:02:26.34] spk_0:
How you doing

[00:02:26.76] spk_1:
out there? Portland,

[00:03:27.24] spk_0:
You know, after feels, I think it feels kind of moment to moment in Portland. Whether it’s Portland, especially inspired or scared or motivated or ready to just hunker down in the house and never leave again. You know, it’s kind of Ah, a many front situation happening in Portland right now between fires and protests. And cove it, of course, and so many things. So you know, it’s it’s interesting to visit as a team, and 10 has 15 staff and nine of us are in the Portland metro area and six are all over the U. S. So, um, you know, we’ve got staff in Seattle in San Francisco and New York and all these other places, so it feels like every day when staff meet, you know, there’s there’s kind of, like our correspondents out in the field reporting in from all the different the different corners of all these different issues, you know, And it kind of helps everybody feel connected and informed in, like, a real way versus Oh, I saw this random article that got tweeted. You know, it’s like, No, you’re really in that city. What’s it feel like? You know,

[00:04:02.44] spk_1:
you’re the 1st 30 minutes of your staff meetings were probably what’s happening in San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Right in Portland for those outside. Yeah. Um, okay, let’s talk about equity equity and technology

[00:04:06.94] spk_0:
sounds again.

[00:04:11.64] spk_1:
So how did N 10 get into this guide.

[00:06:35.54] spk_0:
Well, since we’re talking about this for the whole show, I’ll tell you the long story version and that is that a number of years ago, actually, in 2016 a tw the end of that year you may remember something of note happened that has shifted some of the direction of our country and we twice a year. All staff have, like, come together in person. If you could remember what what being in person with other people was like on the board also has to in person meetings a year and at the staff and the board in person time. At the end of 2016. We did this kind of like a visioning exercise, But it’s not the type where we were trying to create a new strategic plan envisioning specific toe intend, but mostly saying, like, What do we think is gonna get worse in the sector? What is there anything that’s going to get better? Are the things they’re going to stay the same just like what? What’s the environment we’re working in? And then from there, what kind of role could we play in service to that? Because then 10 really sees our work as community centered in service to the community and the number one opportunity that came out from both the boards work and the staff’s work. Waas being a leader in talking about or putting forward information about that intersection of ethics and equity and what we are doing. We’re using technology tools that are also being used. Bite people holding kids in cages were using technology tools that are making a ton of money off of us were you know, like all of these pieces, that whether we can change those things or not, we can at least name those things and equipped folks to better understand them and talk about them and make decisions to kind of navigate what all those implications are for their staff and for their community. So we started really elevating that type of content in articles and, you know, within the community a lot of NTC sessions on Dhe. Then last year in 2019 it was like, Okay, it’s really time for something that folks could like, you know, print and hold in their hand and say, like there’s a lot of ideas here for me to work with, you know, something more than individual sessions or articles. So we put together really diverse and honestly, just like super cool. Like I loved getting to talk to all these people working group of community members, folks that work, you know, in in building tools and using tools that, you know, all all across the spectrum. There have.

[00:07:23.00] spk_1:
Ah, a lot of the work group members were We’re have been guests. Oh, really? That’s awesome. Raj Aggarwal, Tracy Krohn Zach Tristan Penn who works for in 10 Jason Shim Ruben Sing. And they have all been guests. Yeah,

[00:07:25.21] spk_0:
well, look at you. You’re pulling the right people. You know,

[00:07:28.79] spk_1:
we are. I am. We are. Yes.

[00:07:33.54] spk_0:
So we had this big working group on dhe. Really? Just went through a lot of, you know, idea intake and try and kind of synthesize that and then regroup and talk it through and brainstorm or things. And, you know, I think what ultimately came out is a guide. I know we kind of talked about this before, but just to name why we named it that. Yeah, Report

[00:07:59.24] spk_1:
versus guide. Okay. We’ll talk about that.

[00:08:06.84] spk_0:
Yeah, we I mean, we really wanted to create something and make clear that even this thing we’ve put out is probably gonna look different six months from now as the sectors that were working in change as we as organizations changes, people change, you know, there might. We might feel there’s more things we can add to it. There might, because it feels like it becomes the standard and we don’t need to name it anymore, and ADM. Or, you know,

[00:08:32.42] spk_1:
right it sounds artificial to say it’s a report on equity racial inequity in technology used by non profits. E think of the conversation.

[00:09:39.44] spk_0:
The other piece that we really wanted to acknowledge in this is that it is not like it’s not comprehensive. This, like in so far, is like this is not the list. You know, there’s nothing else to dio that would improve equity. Um, and you know, it’s not the things that are included there. We really are like bumpers or directional guides. They don’t tell you what the policy should be, because ultimately the specifics of the policy you’re gonna be based on your organization and your staff. And how many staff do you have? And where do they were? You know, there’s all these other pieces that we don’t know, But we can tell you like Don’t go past this bar, you know, stay within these bumpers on dhe that will get you going in the right direction. So ultimately downloading or reading on the on the website, the Equity guide is just like the jumping off point to a lot of work. It is not already the work for you. You

[00:09:53.84] spk_1:
know, I was very careful to when I was writing the description, I wanted to say to reveal intersecting inequities, not reveal the intersecting inequities again. A ZX If it’s if it’s the finally

[00:10:03.32] spk_0:
the only ones. Yeah,

[00:10:37.54] spk_1:
right. This is all. There’s no more exploration to do now. You’re like like the entire white privilege. Racism, conversation. It’s a It is a It’s a conversation. It’s a journey. You know, Every guest I’m talking about these issues with says the same thing. No, of course. And I know you and I have talked about it. It’s long term. It’s not a check off item, it’s it’s maybe never done, but it Z it’s consciousness. It’s working through policies. It’s having difficult conversations, so there isn’t going to be a definitive guide and definitive report record, right?

[00:11:06.34] spk_0:
You want this to, of course, be used at organizations that maybe haven’t done a lot of investing specific Teoh Mawr Equitable outcomes internally or with their community as well as organizations who feel like they really have, you know, and 10 has really deeply and across the organization invested in equity work. We look at this list and are like shit, man, there’s a whole lot of work to dio, right? Like any organization, No matter how much you’ve already started or gone down that journey, it is forever work. So there’s tons on within the guidelines where we think, Oh, that’s we We’ve done something there. But now that we’ve done something, we can see how much more we could do there, right? We could see what even further down each of those roads could could be for us. So and this has to

[00:11:36.79] spk_1:
be continuing work because, right, it’s just as just the same as your um propagating your values, the organizational values when so when, when racial equity becomes a value, you don’t say your values have an end game. The value of, um, I’m trying to separate it from

[00:11:58.03] spk_0:
before. I mean, I think it’s a really great way to think about it, thinking about racial equity, the value, because all the other values you may have, you know, whatever they are, joy, you know, whatever. You also don’t see them as having a singular definition. You don’t say old equals this. You say, Hey, in this decision we’re trying to make right now, what would bold look like? Bold is our is our value. What would bold look like? Right. So why why wouldn’t we also say the same thing about equity and say, hey, in this situation in this decision, whatever we’re working on, what is that what you look like here? You know?

[00:12:35.84] spk_1:
Right. Okay. I just had the servant Ah ha. Moment around naming equity as a value of the organization on dhe. Therefore, and as you just described, all the other values don’t have in points checkoffs. Yeah, completion statements. Why would racial equity? Uh, okay. It was a bit of a moment for me. Sorry.

[00:12:58.65] spk_0:
I’m glad I could be here. I’m trainable, e.

[00:13:08.54] spk_1:
I swear I’m trainable. All right. Um, so equitable technology. So you talk about, um, inequities that intersect between the non profit community, non profit work and technology. That’s that’s the That’s what we’re trying to elucidate here in this in this guide that the way those two circles intersect

[00:16:42.54] spk_0:
Mhm. Okay, you know, I think that a lot of in equity, especially in equity related to our technology, gets overshadowed. Like every other instance in organizations, we kind of look less at the technology because we’re focused almost exclusively on programs. And so we’re saying, you know, just like we do in budget conversations or anything else. You know, there’s this focus on programs, and so equity looks like how racially diverse are our participants or something like that, which is important. And I’m not saying Don’t look at that. But that’s not the end of what equity means in your organization, especially when we start talking about technology. Because if you’re providing service is or programs to a racially diverse group of community members and you’re using a technology tool, you know you’re using ah database, for example, where they register on your website for those programs. And it requires they enter certain data that some groups either don’t have or feel really untrusting trying to give that data to you. And you’re not thinking that through that right there is already a nen equity, right you are. You are trying to discourage certain people even though you don’t maybe recognize it, or or unconsciously making the decision to do it. You are discouraging groups of folks from participating in your programs just because of that technology decisions, you know, So technology doesn’t operate just visit’s itself. You know, it’s not just the hammer sitting on the shelf. It is what’s allowing you to do your work to communicate with people. Thio Get them registered for that program, whatever it is, And we can’t let go of technology being that instrumental to all of our other decisions. Otherwise, we’re not going to acknowledge, like, really what’s influencing the outcome there. And, of course, then we think about, you know, non profits and the the technology sector. I think one big area that we talked a lot about in the working group WAAS organizations aren’t inclusive in the ways they make decisions, so so often we see non profits, not including community members in decisions about the way the program might run or the way the website might be redesigned. Those air, anything that involves the participants should have have those participants in the same process for the decision and the planning. But organizations so rarely do that. And then, on the technology side, we have a really not diverse group of people building these tools. So we’re having a real lack of inclusivity of any kind in the building of the tool, then being used by an organization whose not including all of the participants in the decision to use it or how to use it. Of course, it’s gonna enter some problems, right? Like there’s no way that that can’t be the outcome here. A very small group of people made it, and now an organization is using it kind of without their eyes open to it.

[00:17:21.84] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They help you build relationships with journalists because of a relationship built by turn to the New York community. Trust got to features in the Wall Street Journal. That’s how well it works when you have the existing relationships turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners, Peter Penna Pento, was an editor at The Chronicle of philanthropy. There are turn hyphen two dot c o Now back to tech equity. So let ZX spend a little time. Let’s let’s talk about the the guide itself. Oh, you you haven’t You haven’t organized for for users and for builders of technology and for funders,

[00:17:36.64] spk_0:
which is profit. Could be all three of those things, right?

[00:17:51.74] spk_1:
It certainly could, Absolutely. If you’re building technology and you make and you provide grants, you you fund fund people or organizations, of course, equitable text. So, you know, there’s a lot of you gotta look for listeners. You just got to get the guide. I mean, waken doom or than weaken then I can with authors, Right? Because those air 250 page books, this is not a 250 page guide. It maybe, maybe maybe in a couple of generations it will be,

[00:18:10.42] spk_0:
but so we can currently Currently I think it’s 27 pages.

[00:18:25.04] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So you got to get the guide. If you want to do this work, if you wanna be making be centering equity among all your other values as you make your technology decisions as you think about technology and the way it’s used in your organization or purchased in your organization, or maintained or used by those who you’re serving or any of your other constituents. And, you know, you gotta get the guide, obviously, which, uh, the guide we could just get the guided and 10 dot or ge right?

[00:18:46.24] spk_0:
Yep, totally free up on the website. If you go to end 10 or GE and then you click on resource is listed right there.

[00:19:09.44] spk_1:
Okay, so let’s talk about Equitable Tech Not assuming tech expertise. Yeah, training, you know, having equitable policies around use, um, providing money where a lot of organizations wouldn’t typically What? What? What are our concerns here? What do you what? The group

[00:19:17.49] spk_0:
we’ll talk

[00:19:18.24] spk_1:
about here

[00:22:23.24] spk_0:
that, you know, hiring folks whenever they think about having a more diverse staff. Racially diverse staff. They always think thio hiring new people because the place they’re coming from is a staff that isn’t diverse. Writer is predominantly white, and there’s this feeling that, like, well, so we’ll just not change any of our higher being process or change. Our organizational culture will just hire people of color through that process somehow which, if that If that was all that was gonna happen, then you wouldn’t be in the situation, right? Especially when it comes Thio technology roles. And that doesn’t mean that it’s like the I T director, as we talked about before it, you know, communications director is the technology staff person, right? Like they’re making lots of technology decisions all the way across an organization. So recognizing that the folks who have had all kinds of systemic access and encouragement to go to college to graduate from college, to graduate from college with a computer science or some other technical degree like guess who those people are super well resourced white men, right? Like that’s just been the reality we’ve had for decades. So if you’re hiring for roles that use technology and you’re saying that you require a college degree, you require a degree in some specific field that you, um, are expecting folks to apply and already have experience or knowledge of specific products, your you are signaling in that job description. We are looking for that well resourced white man, right, because while of course there’s like exceptions to that reality, that’s not you’re not going to necessarily find the exception in there, right? So what? What’s the difference in saying that someone has a college degree or not like, Are they having to write term papers for their job? Like, I don’t know that that isn’t necessary In 2020. I don’t know that we need to rely on those kind of outdated expectations. Nor do we need to say you already know how to use all the products that we use. Well, did all of your staff know how to use them when you bought them? No. You trained them. Why wouldn’t you train a new person? You know, so really investing in hiring great people who love your mission, want to do your work are from the community you serve and knowing that regardless of the position, regardless of the title, once you’re hired, we give you all the training you need to succeed. Not somehow. We think that you should magically already have all of that training. And that makes you the perfect candidate because the folks who would have had historical like jobs before that also use the same tools. Like all of those things are filtering towards the most privileged people. When you let go of all those expectations and say no, Like, we wanna hire great people who care about our work. And once you’re hired, well, make sure you’re successful. Like who wouldn’t want to work in that environment? A. And B, you’re opening it up for anyone, regardless of what their past jobs, maybe, or what tools those other nonprofits use. Like they could have great experience with databases just because that organization used a different one. You know that that shouldn’t preclude someone from getting a job.

[00:23:03.94] spk_1:
So let’s let’s flush this out more and and explore more. Uh, and I guess, I mean, I feel like I’m playing Devil’s Advocate. I didn’t intend to, but the

[00:23:04.37] spk_0:
devil doesn’t need an advocate. E think the devil’s okay? You just ask what you want to ask

[00:23:51.44] spk_1:
you. Uh, and the report, the guide is, um, even drills down to like, operating systems. You know that. Why would you have to say, Why do you need to say familiarity with or or proficient with the Microsoft Suite, Microsoft Office Suite of Tools? You know, because you could you could train that. I guess I’m thinking a little higher level a college degree college degree. So I’ve, you know, I’ve had this conversation with other guests to it might have even been Raj. Um, so this isn’t the first time, but it’s been a while. Yeah, a college degree. There’s certain skills and expertise that’s presumed from a college degree. So let’s not quibble about whether you know one college degree has means that the person can write and read and speak articulately and different. College degree means it doesn’t. That means they can’t. It doesn’t necessarily mean that. Let’s just assume that there’s that there’s a certain skill and expertise level and

[00:24:17.48] spk_0:
eso can you just skills.

[00:24:18.73] spk_1:
I mean, can you just commemorate the skills that you need without having to say you have to have a college degree to have acquired them?

[00:24:25.84] spk_0:
Right? Totally Skills E. I think that there is

[00:24:29.56] spk_1:
advocate really just flushing it out. So

[00:26:25.14] spk_0:
on there is a time and place. You’re saying you have this specific degree or specific certification because the job you’re applying for is a mental health worker, and you need to be certified in our state social work that keep those instances very specific and very separate from we’re hiding, hiring a communications director. We’re hiring a program manager. What does a college degree make or break for that role? Like I have a bachelor’s degree in literature like I in creative writing and I am the CEO of the technology organization. Like what? What’s the correlation there like? Yes, I’m very proficient at writing emails, but that’s not because I have an English degree. You know, like just name, name those skills. And I think it can also be very. I think organizations try to equate the tiered education system with their organizational tear. So they are reliant internally on a very archaic, perfect pyramid shaped or chart. And so they’re thinking, Well, if we’re gonna hire anyone you know in that leadership tier of the triangle, whether it’s see sweeter, you know, directors, whatever their title structure, as then those folks need to have like a master’s thio. Others people have, you know, only a bachelor. Why, I would argue someone who spent even longer in school versus out in the community or in the work force has less personal expertise, right, because they haven’t been doing it. So to try and like map to that, you know, and that then rolls into Well, then who gets those jobs? Also gets paid more because that work structure is also reliant on saying that people a different titles make a different amount of money

[00:26:38.43] spk_1:
forces the privilege of having

[00:26:40.78] spk_0:
exactly, exactly, exactly, it’s just a permanent circle. You know,

[00:26:47.14] spk_1:
some of the details like providing money for Internet connections, not assuming that people can afford that giving technology, not expecting it to exist when it’s required for work.

[00:27:08.22] spk_0:
Those things have certainly come up with these air like these are so many

[00:27:22.84] spk_1:
things that air sort of innocuous. I mean, like like asking for a college degree. It z well, it’s become so commonplace. Everybody has a cell phone. Everybody can afford Internet and high speed WiFi. But another of those things are true. So

[00:27:36.54] spk_0:
and and just because one has a phone that you have a staff of 10 people and all people when they were hired said they had a smartphone. What smartphone they have, what data plan they have, what, how many minutes they have, even like what functionality is available for That type of phone is probably not the same, and the idea that it’s just on them to use their personal phone. If there’s something that you you need someone to use, then you need to give it to them. We can’t operate in this world where whatever you personally already had or invested in is going to make or break your professional success. That’s that’s not going toe ever end inequitable way

[00:28:19.94] spk_1:
data, data usage you touched on it and you start to touch on the collection part. And while you were talking about collection, I was thinking about the individual questions that you ask, Do you have quickly binary male female? First of all, you need to even ask Do the gender matter. And But how? How narrow are the choices that you’re offering in that lots of other places. What do you What do you want to say about data?

[00:29:10.44] spk_0:
I feel like data is so tricky for organizations, you know, it’s It’s something that I think from, you know, a decade of the greater sector, talking about how organizations need to be data driven and data informed, and you know what data do you have? And you know, there’s just been such a focus in in a kind of a more FIC way that nonprofits need to really care about Jada, that they now really care about data. They don’t know why they care about it or necessarily, like what to do about it. There isn’t.

[00:29:18.64] spk_1:
Well, they’re gonna

[00:29:19.08] spk_0:
mind data practice,

[00:29:21.04] spk_1:
get a lot of data, and then we’re gonna mine it

[00:30:40.24] spk_0:
on. Then we’re gonna use We’re gonna upload it all into this like a I machine, and it’s gonna tell us who’s going to donate to us, who’s going to do whatever. Who’s gonna come to our programs? Yeah, but I think the very first piece, I would say, is not just acknowledging but truly accepting and making all of your decisions around data from the perspective that it is not yours. It is each of those people’s data and you, for a temporary amount of time, have access to it. If that is the place where you can make your decisions from that, you need to be doing everything in your power to protect it. To Stuart it to make sure they know what data you have that it’s clean and updated. Your your relationship to that data changes. And I think even just in that relationship change will get organizations on a better path, you know. And then once you’re in that mindset, it’s so obvious to say, Well, of course, those people should be controlling their data and able to edit it at any time or request that we delete it, you know, and don’t keep the record anymore, like you kind of roll out from there so many of the things that are in the guides just because it’s obvious. Once you have the mindset that it’s not your data,

[00:30:48.70] spk_1:
you know they own it, they own.

[00:31:16.84] spk_0:
And if it’s, there’s of course, you shouldn’t just offer binary options on gender or anything else, right, because you don’t know it’s not your data, so you can’t have already decided what the option is. You know, I think that mindset shift really influences a lot and open the door for you to say, Hey, the outcomes of this program aren’t ours to decide. Participants benefiting from our programs and service is actually get to decide what the outcome of that program was for

[00:31:31.04] spk_1:
them. Yes, that was a very interesting winning the guide that that who sets the metrics for success? What is success in our program or programs. What is it? How is it defined? Right, right,

[00:31:52.74] spk_0:
which I don’t think is is far from ideas that you have certainly thought about whether or not they’re They’re super like widely accepted now, But even in fundraising, right that like someone participating in that in a fundraise e or ah, donation relationship with you like you don’t necessarily have to say. Okay, well, your donating $10 and it’s specifically going to this, But what kind of thank you they want? What kind of recognition they want isn’t for you necessarily to decide it’s Do you want to be recognized? Do you want to be acknowledged? You know? So I think once we remember that as organizations, we are essentially the facilitators of change making. We’re not the ones who owned the data. Who owned the program? Who owned the success, who owned the impact? Like we let go of essentially a lot of a lot of pressure. Teoh be like fortune tellers or something and and future tellers and instead say, we’re facilitating this program. These participants air coming through and look, they’re like five different outcomes that were achieved. And it’s great not every single person had one outcome. They liked it in the same way. They’re gonna use it in the same way, like it’s all humans that were interacting with. And we need to We need to bring back that human focusing.

[00:33:15.84] spk_1:
This is related to funding. So you have a whole. You have several ideas for funders to think about to act on. What do you want to say to our institutional funders?

[00:33:18.74] spk_0:
Uh, you do have some work to dio

[00:33:54.14] spk_1:
time for our last break dot drives dot drives Engagement dot drives relationships. Dot drives is the simplest donor pipeline fundraising tool. It’s customizable, collaborative, intuitive. If you want to move the needle on your prospect and donor relationships, get the free demo for listeners. There’s also a free month. You go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. You know what we’ve got we’ve got but loads more time for tech equity.

[00:36:06.83] spk_0:
I think funders air in a tricky spot because not on Lee do all of the same Inequitable outcomes happen as faras using technology like there’s still a kind of non profit using technology and doing work, so they’ve got, like, all of that section of work to Dio, and they also have the relationship where they are investing in the sector. There’s there’s some shifts that I think need to happen there, especially for funders who are saying that they don’t invest in technology, not investing in technology. Like I think the last six months have shown what has happened to a sector that has been chronically under resourced and technology, and when a lot of organizations or getting donations or grants, that’s a You can’t use this on technology. Guess what? The outcome of that ISS the last six months. It is organizations who cannot continue to function, who I’ve already started closing their divorce, who cannot transition programs online and don’t know don’t have the internal capacity to do that. So we we just can’t any longer have grants that say, you can’t use this on technology like you can’t have a program without the database that stores all the participants in it. Why would the grant for that program not include the database? Right? It’s just ridiculous. Thes air these air, the necessary tools for programs success. They have to be part of every gram on dhe. I think the other piece that we’ve seen, We’re gonna We’ve seen funders try even just over the last number of years. And during the pandemic is we have solved this for you. We’ve chosen the tool, or we’ve chosen the consultant. And now, if you apply for this grant, what you actually get is for free. We’re going to give you this product that we, as the thunder have decided that you all will use. Or we’ve paid for this consultant who’s gonna go set this thing up for all of you. Why in any world would that be a successful strategy? You know, a single technology be known in advance to be the right tool for all this?

[00:36:17.45] spk_1:
Sounds like something that a company would do. And it would be more for a ZX the guy brings out. It would be more for visibility. That impact, right? If

[00:36:25.37] spk_0:
it’s such an easy route, right, its

[00:36:27.80] spk_1:
ability is your goal. Then that’s the I mean, I’m giving an answer to your rhetorical question,

[00:36:47.33] spk_0:
right? I mean, it’s honestly, like a lazy way to approach capacity building. You’re not accepting that there’s nuance in any of this work and that there would be differences and needs and you’re just saying like Here’s here’s one giant hammer. I hope it works for all of your work sites by you

[00:36:57.13] spk_1:
know, what about for technology creators? Way said earlier. Non profit could be. It could very well be a builder of technology as well.

[00:38:10.72] spk_0:
Mhm. Yeah, there are. I think it’s more common than, you know. Maybe the broader us really thinks about how many nonprofits are building technology because it may not even be technology that they sell, or even that they share or distribute. It could just be technology that they built for themselves to do something. But all the same kind of guidelines apply. You know, how are you building tools for unending use or an end community and not including those people in the process? There’s There’s just no way that it’s going that you could never assume it’s gonna work for those folks if those folks are not part of the process. Um, that doesn’t mean you need to have you know, 50 different people trying to be in the code on your website or something that you know, we’re not. We’re not saying that, but there are plenty of ways to include folks in scoping out what you’re gonna build testing it, piloting it, um, you know, making it over time. And the more of those folks that are included, the better the product will be. And and in the world of technology, I mean, success equals adoption. So if you really want it to be adopted, you really want people to successfully use it. Then you better be including them so that when it gets to them, it does work, and it is what they needed to be. Andi, I think

[00:40:12.86] spk_1:
I was talking about this in the early 19 eighties when when I was when I was getting the degree that I don’t use, which is from Carnegie Mellon degree, uh, information systems. I asked Economics and Information system, and we had to develop a creative build a project our fourth year. Our our senior project course was an inventory control system for the maintenance and Facilities Department. So we brought the users in who were not I mean, these guys. This is the guy who runs the inventory room, right? College degree. He wasn’t even white, but he was gonna be the he was gonna be. He’s one of the prime users. We were building this for it was a bunch of white. Mostly, I don’t know if it was mostly male, probably probably Waas, but this mostly male white group, you know, bringing this thing this man of color in tow help teach us how he does his job and how what we’re scoping out is going to impact his his work life on and teaching us, you know, teaching. But so we were talking about this in 1984 you know, bringing users. And that’s just the end user. There’s also the people who are entering data maybe not as users, but or not as recurring users, but as new users as benefit from your program as they check in for the meal or the overnight stay or the bag of uh huh of food. You know what, so right, Inclusive e. I mean, it was just called inclusive design,

[00:41:47.81] spk_0:
right? And how do you compensate those people? How do you acknowledge those people? How do you give them actual power in the process? You know, like again if we if we think about this as we’re just here as the facilitators of this work then it is clear that they should have our They should be able to influence our plans. You know, this isn’t just for the sake of saying we had some user group come in and five of five people and they gave us the feedback. You know, like, this isn’t This isn’t to check the box. This is to say, Hey, we’re the facilitators of change of the process and we’re here for you. So, like, let’s find the path. And I think, of course, that’s, like, so counter and scary to the old white dominant way of managing technology managing organizations, you know, Why would you ever give up control willingly? But I guess I’d argue. Like, what control do you really think you have? You know, like the idea that you’re giving up control. Well, right now, if you’re really trying to, like, hold everything in and make every decision internal. Are you having a tonic success? Like, have you met your mission? Is your mission all done like I don’t know that it’s something you really need to try and hold on to. Because if you can be far more centered on the community, you also have the benefit of Of likely accelerating that impact and more, more rapidly meeting your mission. Right? Because

[00:42:32.30] spk_1:
another word for controllers power. You’re giving up your surrendering power, which which so many people think you know, it’s it’s zero sum. So whatever I lose, you know, whatever I give up, I don’t have any more. But that’s like that’s like finding time. Well, you find the time. No, you make the time. Otherwise the time Or, you know, uh, you know, it’s time. It’s it’s a It’s the same abstract concept. It, um So the surrender of power, they and I would even hesitate to say the delegation of power. But it’s because then it’s

[00:42:36.73] spk_0:
just acknowledging that actually, these other bodies,

[00:42:40.35] spk_1:
these other, like I’m making a sign of across I give you power,

[00:42:44.40] spk_0:
right? No, it’s it’s just technology that everyone already had power. It was just power. You denied before. And now you’re saying, Oh, I’m gonna like actually listen to that You’re not getting ready of any of yours. You’re just technology that everyone else also has power on dhe. What does it look like? All work together and put all of that power towards the same direction.

[00:43:06.77] spk_1:
And then, you know, sometimes you hear well, that’ll be anarchy because they’ll be Everybody will have all

[00:43:13.96] spk_0:
the same power jurisdiction. So

[00:43:38.00] spk_1:
you know, your ruled by Antifa? Uh, that was purely sarcastic. Uh, no. I mean the the authority is still gonna be recognized. It’s not like it’s not like by by giving voice to other folks, you’re no longer the CEO of intent or, you know, you’re no longer people don’t no longer recognize you as the chair of the board. It’s not. It’s not that way. It’s not anarchy. It’s tze just inclusivity,

[00:44:40.39] spk_0:
right? I mean, if you’ve always relied on defining your job, is the CEO as being the only one allowed to make decisions? A. You probably put a ton of pressure on yourself. Be You were likely never the best person to make those decisions. So were they ever that great? Anyway, you know, it’s like remember, you’re just the facility. You’re the facilitator. Is the CEO of your organization being successful? That doesn’t mean you make all the decisions. It means you’re the facilitator. You make sure the right staff were making decisions or the right community members got to be part of things like let go of again. It’s not the power or the control. Just let go of these really outdated definitions of who we need to be in these roles so that we can get out of the way of all of this inequity, right? Like, create or make that space so that people are in this work together because then it’s gonna be better work.

[00:44:56.19] spk_1:
Yeah. Get out of the way of the inequity. No! Get out of the way of the equity. Out of the way you want. You want to stand out of the way so that equity can come through? Yes. Don’t want to get out of the way of the inequity.

[00:45:04.83] spk_0:
Car

[00:45:05.87] spk_1:
inequity would prevail. You want to get out of the way of the equity? Alright, stand clear and the equity will emerge. Okay. Um So what else? Let’s let’s start to wrap up. What else you wanna tell us about the report? That the guide, the guide? I’m sorry. The guy that we didn’t talk about, I

[00:46:16.78] spk_0:
think the thing that I would love to say is, you know, it’s all, um it’s all it’s all practice, right? Like you’re not going toe. Read anything in the guide and have it be like word for word, something you copy paste. And now that’s your policy or anything else. And yeah, and also there’s nothing in there that you’ll that you’ll, you know, be directed or inspired to put forward in your organization. That’s gonna be like quote unquote right the first time. Because there is There is no right on Lee Path in this work, and it’s really committing Thio, the practice of of focusing on equity and trying Thio identify and make clear where they’re inequitable outcomes so that you can again practice how to get to a better place on dhe. In that vein, you know, the working group isn’t done. The working group is still the working group. They are excited to continue working together to find places to add or adjust things in the guide. And we really, really want to hear from organizations who read the guide and, you know, try and do something in their organization with it. They, you know, have ah, internal committee that looks at these ideas and tries to make recommendations or whatever. Like if you try and use this guide. Let us know. Let us know how it goes. If if you’ve got things that you wanna share, we gladly publish them on the in 10. Um, you know, publish an article from you on the intense site. Um, you know, whether it was, like, a learning process or something, that well, whatever it is, we really just want to hear from folks that are using it so that we can find, you know, is there more that we could put in here to help you translate this into your work? Is there Are there places that you’re finding? Ah, lot of challenge that we could address with more guidelines. You know, um, And if you’re really into this and you want to join the working group, you can also let us know, and we’ll just add you to the working group. And you could be part of this work as well. So ultimately, just go use it. Read it, share it with your funders, share it with the vendors you’re considering buying technology from, you know, and be in conversation with us, so that we can kind of learn from how you do it.

[00:48:03.17] spk_1:
And the report explicitly asks for folks to join the working group. Your email AMIA 10 10 or GE.

[00:48:05.77] spk_0:
Yep. So yeah, email me in time.

[00:48:24.94] spk_1:
Did you want me? Oh, you want Meteo? You want me to blank out your email address? No, you don’t mind, folks have no. Yeah, right. Okay. Thank you. Brava! Brava! Uh, in your simple word and 10.

[00:48:26.77] spk_0:
Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for elevating this and helping us share it with more folks.

[00:49:31.17] spk_1:
Absolutely a pleasure on Thank you for doing it. Thank you for helping me. Thank you for helping next week Volunteer engagement and artists. Sunday. Yes. There’s someone taking over looking to take over the Sunday after Thanksgiving for artists. Artists Sunday were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives. Raise more money. Changed more lives. Tony dot mus slash dot for a free demo and a free month. Ah, creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy. And this music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for October 5, 2020: SEO For Your Fundraising Campaign & Rebrand Vs. Refresh

My Guests:

Michelle Frechette & Amanda Gorman: SEO For Your Fundraising Campaign

Our 20NTC panel helps you build your online community and increase engagement with 3 SEO strategies: keywords research; competitor analysis; and, content writing. They’re Michelle Frechette and Amanda Gorman, both from GiveWP.

 

 

 

 

Yvette Scorse, Christopher Wallace, Taylor Shanklin & Serrie Fung: Rebrand Vs. Refresh

Which is better for you, rebranding or refreshing your brand? Our final 20NTC panel helps you choose, then shares the case study of Byte Back and reveals strategies for getting the buy-in you’ll need for success. They’re Yvette Scorse and Christopher Wallace from Byte Back; Taylor Shanklin at Firefly Partners; and, Serrie Fung, founder of Zest.

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[00:02:30.54] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with Ikaria if you irritated me with the idea that you missed today’s show s CEO for your fundraising campaign. Our 20 NTC panel helps you build your online community and increase engagement with three S c o strategies, keywords, research competitors, er analysis and content rating. They’re Michelle Frechette and Amanda Gorman, both from give W P and rebrand versus Refresh, which is better for you re branding or refreshing your brand. Our final 20 NTC panel helps you choose, then shares the case study of bite back and reveals strategies for getting the buy in. You’ll need for success. They’re Evette Scores and Christopher Wallace from Bite Back Taylor Shanklin at Firefly Partners and Sorry Fung, founder of Zest Antonis, take two planned giving accelerator were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money, changed more lives tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and free month Here is our 20 NTC penultimate panel. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC. That’s a 2020 non profit technology conference. The conference regrettably had to be canceled, but non profit radio is persevering, of course. Virtually sponsored at 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. With me now are Michelle Frechette and Amanda Gorman. They are both with give. W. P. Shell is head of customer success, and Amanda is customer success manager Shell and Amanda. Welcome.

[00:02:32.44] spk_1:
Thanks for having us

[00:02:54.94] spk_0:
the pleasure. Thank you. I’m glad we were able to put this all together. The three of us. Thank you, Andi. It’s good to know that each of you is well and safe both in Rochester. Alright, Alright. Um, you’re 20. NTC topic is three s CEO strategies for optimizing your fundraising campaign. Um, Michelle, why don’t you start us off? What? Why did you feel a need? Thio have this workshop?

[00:03:01.64] spk_1:
Sure. So you know, we work with nonprofits all day, every day, helping them do fundraising. And Amanda’s area of expertise outside of working with nonprofits, is actually, um, s CEO. And so it was just a natural, um, natural thing for her to want to help, uh, people’s organizations be found on the web, especially so that they can collect donations.

[00:03:24.87] spk_0:
Okay. Um, Amanda What? What? Air Nonprofits Not getting so right about the S e O That that we needed this this session.

[00:03:35.14] spk_1:
Looks like a man has just lost her connection.

[00:03:37.34] spk_0:
Yeah, Amanda did. She’s back. Okay, there she is. Your back Amanda

[00:03:41.98] spk_2:
back. I’m sorry. My Internet just decided to kick me out first.

[00:03:45.54] spk_0:
Okay. That’s why I had to cancel the session earlier. I lost it for too long, and I had a whole bunch of them back to back. Um, did you hear? Did you hear what I was asking you? Why? What air? Non profit. Really not getting right with S e O. That that we We needed this session.

[00:04:00.84] spk_2:
Yes. Yes. And Michelle, did you already give your answer?

[00:04:09.44] spk_1:
Yeah, I already talked a little bit, but But, you know, what are they doing wrong? Or they missing the mark on is really for you,

[00:04:09.88] spk_2:
right? Right. Absolutely.

[00:04:11.83] spk_1:
So there’s a couple of things

[00:04:13.18] spk_2:
that we we definitely see and just in my experience, working with a lot of our customers and working with kind of my own intention of starting on non profit and getting excited about that kind of looking at what is out there and what I am saying in the gaps is just like we get really excited about producing a campaign and kind of jump a lot of steps of just getting things started to start raising money. But we don’t necessarily look at the initial steps that should be thought about before the campaign actually hits the page. So what should the content look like? What kind of people are we actually hoping? Engage with us? What are our expectations for those people and how are they going to feel while engaging with our brand or company or organization? I think some more thought needs to be done with all of that before just kind of putting something on the website s o. I try to slow it down a little bit and really get careful about the messaging. Really? Get careful about exactly what we’re trying to communicate on. That all starts with, you know, keyword research and ah, lot of other strategies,

[00:05:43.94] spk_0:
which which we’re gonna get into. We have time. Eso You’re the troublemaker, Like people want to get, like, you just Can we just start the campaign, You know, way, you know, why do we have to have mawr ground work We’ve already done. You know, we’ve talked to our key stakeholders, and we’ve got me first dozen donors lined up and and we’ve We’ve got messaging out, you know? So you wanna lay more groundwork? Yes. Yeah, For success. So you have better outcomes. Of course.

[00:05:47.41] spk_1:
Sometimes you hear that people say to us, you know, I built a website and I have a fundraising page, but we’re not raising any money. And so it’s not like the field of dreams, right? You don’t just build it and they show up. There’s a lot of work that goes into driving people to your donation page

[00:06:34.94] spk_0:
where we should have learned that with first with websites on, then with blog’s and then with podcasts. You know, you don’t just put it out and people come to it. You should have. We should have learned this lesson by now. All right, way. Haven’t Yeah, not. Not satisfactorily. Not all right, um All right, so let’s Let’s stay with you, Michelle. You have three principles of building the online community. Uh, be intentional, aware on build trust. It sounds like most of the most of the time will be spent with the three s e o strategies. So but just can we go through the The three principles of building kind of quickly is that I have That

[00:06:42.56] spk_1:
s so you know, the way that Amanda and I have kind of structure is it’s like building a garden. You can’t just throw the seeds in the yard and expect that you’re gonna have a beautiful garden at the end. You have It has to be intentional. You have to, you know, turn the soil. You have to plant the seeds. You have to water them. You have to tend them. You have to weed things out. Um, you have to decide what you’re planting. Are you planting? Ah, perennial, Are you planting an annual? So do you want these things to continue to grow and continue to come back? Or is it something that’s a one time one time deal? So it really has to be. It has really a lot of those same ideas behind anything that you do and you want to do well, is it has to have those those principles behind it in order for it to flourish.

[00:07:21.24] spk_0:
Okay, Michelle, that’s a particularly apt metaphor for you the garden, because in the background, I see a flowering. I don’t know if those air daisies, uh, in the in the brown frame, but

[00:07:31.76] spk_1:
flower you painted

[00:07:42.14] spk_0:
that. Oh, awesome. All right, all right. They’re flattering. They’re flourishing. So perfect. Perfect metaphor. Um, so be intentional. Be aware. Oh, and build trust, say a little about building trust.

[00:07:47.24] spk_1:
So building trust is super important. But you have to be a kn organization that people want to give money to. So in order for somebody to give you their money, they have to know that it’s going for a good cause. So you have to have put out there be a transparent, uh, you

[00:08:01.12] spk_3:
know, be

[00:08:01.93] spk_1:
intentional. Show where that money is being used. Show how it’s being used. Ah, lot of nonprofits that don’t succeed aren’t necessarily doing anything wrong, but they’re not being transparent and how their money is being spent. And so sometimes people assume because CEO is putting or the director’s lining their pockets, things like that. So with intentional, you know, um and and building trust, it has a lot to do with just making sure that people understand what you’re doing.

[00:08:28.44] spk_0:
And how about be aware, Amanda, What does what does that one mean?

[00:08:33.24] spk_2:
Uh, that kind of really comes down Thio not stopping your efforts after all the great work you’ve done of getting your campaign out there but continuing to be aware of your market, your your industry overall and being an authority in that industry so that you are continuing to update your website your landing page for your campaign. You’re keeping your donors informed. The newsletter by Social Media. You’re making changes to your campaign as things start to change in your goals and whatever else might come your way. Eso really being aware of where you stand and how others air being helped, how you’re helping and how you can really fill in the gap. If there are any gaps out there that you’re aware of,

[00:09:46.74] spk_0:
okay, and all this has to be communicated. Thing is, all part of your messaging right is how you fill the gap where what important role you play exactly. Exactly. Okay. All right. So, Thio, build this online community. You have. You have 33 seo strategies. Eso keyword research, competition and competitive analysis and content writing. You wanna you wanna kick us off with keyword research? What?

[00:09:51.94] spk_2:
Yeah,

[00:09:52.53] spk_0:
but how? This relates to the groundwork we gotta lay beforehand.

[00:09:56.64] spk_2:
Absolutely. So keyword research is always a great place to start for N E S C o strategy, but especially for our nonprofits. We want to make sure that we get a really good understanding of what our goals are right from the beginning. And that has to do with keyword research Because N E S C o campaign, it isn’t a campaign for ASIO without keywords, right? We have to be able to know what keepers we want to show up for in search s so that we can connect with our ideal customers or are ideal clients in that way. So keyword research for me is this kind of going with the metaphor of the garden is this idea of planting seeds. So we’re starting with those little seed keywords. We’re putting them in the ground and kind of burying them with a bunch of fertile soil and then hoping that they grow into something really excellent for our campaigns. Eso specifically using a lot of tools, uh, to access keywords on the Web. I have a lot of free tools that I utilize. Um, so just Google itself, using the Google, suggest bar where you just type in your ideal keyword and then seeing the suggested key words that come up when you search in any keyword. That’s a great place just to get some ideas. If you’re stuck or you just don’t know what keywords could be related to your topic s. Oh, that’s a really great way to see what people are actually searching. And then thio kind of go from there to develop your content and toe, understand how your best going toe, You know, find yourself in search.

[00:11:24.04] spk_0:
Is there another free tool that you can shout out?

[00:11:27.24] spk_2:
Yeah, mas dot com has ah free keyword tool. I m o z m o z dot com. They could do have some free tools that you can use just to get some quick searches out there for your a topic that you’re looking for. The Google trends uh, tool on Google also is a great one to check out. And just Google keyword planner, Uh, that’s a free tool. You do have to have an ADWORDS account, but you don’t have to run any ads with Google in orderto use that tool, and you can search for keywords. You can see the competitors, er analysis for all those, as in terms of how many clicks they’re getting or how much people are bidding on those keywords in ad words. But again, you don’t need to use or spend any money on ads in order to see that information

[00:12:20.89] spk_0:
to get get the value of the of the keyword research you don’t have. Right,

[00:12:21.77] spk_2:
right? If

[00:12:22.64] spk_1:
you do

[00:12:23.20] spk_2:
run an ad, you would get more detailed research. You’d be able to get specifics about exact dollar amounts as to what is being spent. But in the free version, you just kind of get an estimate of low medium high. What somebody is spending on a particular keywords so you can kind of gauge for yourself. Is this worth going after or is this something people are paying for ads on And I don’t wanna waste my time here if I’m not going to spend ads myself.

[00:12:50.84] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Michelle, can you tell us about competitive analysis? Which to me, sounds like some kind of corporate espionage

[00:13:32.64] spk_1:
work. It’s not so much corporate benchmarking, right? Taking a look at what is what is your competition doing? So, um, you know, non profit don’t compete in the same way that for profit organizations do. They’re not selling widgets, for example. But they’re competing for those discretionary dollars that people are looking to spend, um, via donations. And so it’s important to look at other organizations that are similar to yours, See what they’re doing. Look at their content. Look a TTE how they structured their There you are Else. Take a look at all of the different things that go into play a SZ faras how they’re putting themselves on the web, search for them. See what kind of search using search terms that you think they might be using and see what comes up on. Do you know you can’t really just call them up and say, Hey, what keywords are you using? Because, you know, that’s kind of your little secret, but you can. There’s a lot you still can do as far as, um, you know, using Google to find things and then also just looking at their website and looking at the way they formatted. They’re blogged looking at their donation page there about us Page and things like that and how they structured all their content.

[00:14:01.06] spk_0:
Okay. And, um, you said, And I think you said benchmarking. But you can also use all that competitive information to distinguish yourself. Sure, if there’s a niche, you’re you’re tryingto fit into that, they don’t do. You can? Yeah, Like I said, distinguish yourself. I’m not sure how you would do that, though.

[00:14:24.45] spk_1:
Well, for example, there’s e think there’s 14 dog shelters in our county here outside of Rochester, you know, And so $14 or animal shelters? Um, some of them are no kill shelters. So if if you have half of them are kill shelters and half of them are no kill shelters. You wanna make sure to use words that people are searching for specifically, so can you distinguish yourself is a no kill shelter? Can you distinguish yourself? A zone organization that fosters out pets is not just keeps them engages in your own in your own space. So there are different things that you can do by looking at your competition in your area to make sure that what you’re doing might be different and how you can distinguish yourself. That way.

[00:15:53.54] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Last week I told you a friend got a long quote in Business Insider magazine. It was beautiful. I asked him how he landed it because he had a relationship with the journalist. Longstanding relationship. The writer called my friend when he needed someone with recruiting expertise. Turn Two will help you build journalist relationships like that so solid that journalists are calling you. They specialize in working with nonprofits. One of the partners, Peter Pan A. Pento, was an editor at the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo now back to S. C. O for your fundraising campaign. Also,

[00:15:54.02] spk_2:
when it comes to the content that you’re writing, I just wanna add that you’re really in terms of S C o U. You wanna earn those clicks, right? So the more content you have on your website relating to your service is but also relating to just things that you’re passionate about, things in your community that your followers are really at attuned to. What can you write that’s going thio connect with them more deeply than maybe some of those competitors are. What are people not talking about? That you want to talk about in your space that you find is important?

[00:16:27.24] spk_0:
Okay, okay. And that was that was the third strategy. Content writing eyes. Anything more You wanna, either if you want to add about about

[00:16:34.90] spk_1:
that, it was like I got this a

[00:16:37.75] spk_0:
lot more. Yeah, please.

[00:16:38.67] spk_2:
Yeah. I

[00:16:39.73] spk_1:
mean, when it comes

[00:16:40.47] spk_2:
to content rating, it’s that’s kind of the end result for your strategy, of course, with those keywords planning Ah, the competitors research and then actually getting content on there on your website, that is, or your landing page for your campaign. It’s all about connecting with your audience and doing so again and again and again. Eso providing value is really what the content is all about. It’s not necessarily just I want to get clicks. I wanna provide value. I wanna be there for my community and provide them with a place to get authority of information, and I mean in information with integrity, something that they can trust and that they can lean on to come back to for fax. Being an advocate in your community, for research to be a deliver of information, especially as a non profit, can become a really awesome way to connect with your community. If there’s a study that’s been done in your industry that no one’s written about yet, something that has a lot of data and numbers that you can put into some context for your community to better understand, that’s going to really build trust in your community. And that’s all done through the way that you write your content.

[00:18:01.04] spk_0:
That’s a long term process to. That’s not. That’s not something you you throw together because you’re anticipating volunteer campaign in the next six months. Building trust, ability. You know your bona fides wherever you want to describe it. That takes time,

[00:18:07.34] spk_2:
absolutely, and

[00:18:08.55] spk_0:
it takes

[00:18:09.34] spk_2:
dedication because it it is hard work and typically a block post that I see that rank in Google because there are so much content coming out. There’s so many block posts being released every single minute of every day. It has toe have your blood, sweat and tears in it. You’ve really gotta put your energy into writing a piece of content that’s going to get shared, and that’s going to get some love on it. On social media and just from your community, however, you’re sharing it. Eso really putting in the time and effort to know what’s already out there and what you can do better is where you could really distinguish yourself.

[00:18:46.14] spk_6:
A

[00:18:47.31] spk_1:
lot of, ah lot of non profit don’t even have blog’s. You know, I would say anecdotally, probably, you know, less than half of what we see on a regular basis are building regular content, um, new content onto their websites. So, you know, just getting the block and getting it going is half the staff is half the process. But following the steps for S e. O. Is going to take that even the next level.

[00:19:09.54] spk_0:
Okay, um, since you both give W p. Michelle and you’re the you’re the head of customer success, what’s give W P about you couldn’t explain a little bit.

[00:19:18.72] spk_1:
So give w P. Is WordPress is a WordPress plug in, and what we do is we build dynamic donations pages for people so they can use our software to make a really, truly dynamic donation page for their website. You can build in all those keywords and and do a lot of content on their images. Video text for sure. And then we have a suite of add ons that give you additional functionality. So recurring donations, you know, few recovery tributes, functions things like that.

[00:19:47.54] spk_0:
Okay, so W p is the WordPress now Western Pennsylvania.

[00:19:54.75] spk_1:
Correct. Were a little bar global. Okay.

[00:20:04.54] spk_0:
I knew it wasn’t Western Pennsylvania when you told me you both in Rochester. So, uh, okay, WordPress Alright. Um, okay. Uh, we we’ve I mean you pretty much. We’ve covered your three principles of building and the three Seo strategies. Um, who wants toe leave us with some parting thoughts.

[00:20:16.64] spk_1:
Go ahead, Amanda.

[00:20:28.34] spk_2:
Eso eso gracious. Thank you. Yeah, s Oh, thank u s o. All of this is to again build that community, right? So it can be a little dangerous at first when you’re approaching SDO strategy to kind of get lost. And I need x y z toe happen. I need so many clicks. I need this kind of engagement for my campaign to be successful. Uh, I think it’s more important. Thio. Measure your success by the way you’re providing value and to keep at it. And if your timeline that you’ve originally set yourself up with isn’t necessarily met, adjust it. Make changes, return to the start of your keyword research. Go back through the competitors er research, and then start writing content in a different way, doing a B testing or whatever you can do within your markets. Thio produce content in different ways and test and see what works best is really important and to not get discouraged because as long as you’re producing and you’re providing value, that’s what’s really going to be important for your community in relying on your community to ask questions and Thio engage with you and to help you be better is something that should definitely be leaned on.

[00:21:42.74] spk_0:
Okay, be willing to listen. Yes, yeah, yeah, both from Rochester, New York that was Amanda Gorman, customer success manager. It give W P and Michelle Frechette head of customer success, give w P on Michelle Amanda, Thank you very much. Thanks so much for sharing.

[00:21:59.04] spk_1:
Thanks for having us.

[00:24:35.84] spk_0:
It’s a pleasure Thank you. Thank you. Stay safe and thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020 non profit technology Conference sponsored there, here, everywhere by Cougar Mountain Software. Thanks so much for being with us. It’s time for Tony’s Take two planned giving accelerator. It’s a brain dump. I’m gonna teach you everything I know about getting your plan giving program started in 2021. I’m going to do live trainings, which, of course, will be recorded for those who can’t make it live. Ask me anything. Sessions, exclusive podcasts. There’ll be a Facebook community all exclusive for members of planned giving accelerator. You’re gonna get your plan giving program started in 2021. We’re gonna identify the top prospects and the Tier two prospects. We’re gonna get the promotions started. We’re gonna develop a solicitor cultivation and solicitation plan for your top prospects. We’ll get the wider spread promotions, go out and going. I’m gonna help you reply. Answer those replies. You reply back. Thio requests for information. I’m gonna show you what to do. When folks tell you that they’ve included you in their wills. We’re gonna get you started I’m gonna get you started and we’ll get Yeah, we were gonna get started as a community going together. I’m leaving it. I’ll teach you everything I know. It’s all the info that you need. Is that planned giving accelerator dot com. I hope you’re gonna join me. We’re gonna kick this off in 2021. This being your plan? Giving program planned giving accelerator dot com. That is tony Steak too. It’s time for rebrand versus Refresh. Our last final ultimate panel from 20 and TC. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020. Non profit Technology Conference sponsored A 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software. My guest now are Evette Scores Christopher Wallace, Taylor Shanklin and sorry Fung. If that is communications director and bite back Christopher is also a bite back. He’s development director there. Taylor Shanklin is vice president of growth at Firefly Partners. And sorry is founder, branding and communications strategist at zest. All right, everybody welcome. Welcome to each of you. I

[00:24:38.93] spk_3:
tony. Hey there.

[00:24:40.74] spk_4:
Thanks for having us.

[00:25:04.14] spk_0:
Yes, I’m glad. Thank you. I’m glad we’re able to work this out virtually. And I know that you’re each well and safe in your respective places throughout the country. So I’m glad you’re 20. NTC Topic is brand new rebranding that will literally pay off event. Let’s start with you. What? What are nonprofits not getting quite right? Why did you Why did you all feel you needed this session? That’s a better way to put it.

[00:25:10.84] spk_1:
That’s a great

[00:26:01.34] spk_4:
question. I think there, of course, a lot of non profits are re branding and looking at that for us at bite back. We’re quite a small non profit were founded in 1997. So our branding really wasn’t matching up with our values the way we we’re communicating and the audience is that we wanted to attract where a tech organization and our reputation was kind of a ZX teaching older ladies how Thio use a mouse, how to type in the public libraries here, which is great work. And it’s work that we dio Um but we also needed to incorporate the really important tech training that we did that we still do Thio help people get careers that use technology. Eso For us, it was a matter of having our branding really match what we were doing in our work.

[00:26:06.94] spk_0:
Okay, s so that was a rebranding versus Ah, refresh, right?

[00:26:11.84] spk_4:
Yes, that’s right.

[00:26:23.44] spk_0:
Who’s the? Who’s the best person? Toe? Answer the question. What’s the difference between a refresh and rebrand? And how do you know which is best for your organization? Who? A tailor. You wanna talk about that?

[00:26:27.04] spk_1:
Yeah, sure. I

[00:26:27.74] spk_5:
mean, I’ve done everything under the sun in terms of rebranded and refreshing e, I think. Here’s how I think it I think about a refresh as sort of like a light rebranding. Right? Maybe you’re swapping out the logo a little bit or changing colors or coming up with a new tagline. But most of the things they’re staying the same. I think of a rebranding, Morris, something where you are going all in to say, What is it that we want people to always think about when they when they think about our organization and what’s that first impression we’re making? And we’re going to get at a real overhaul. So you might completely redo the logo. You might completely radio. Um, you know all of your assets and you know, color schemes and things like that. So I think there’s a lot that can go into it. Um, a refresh could be a good starting point for some organizations who maybe are not yet quite there and ready to go through a full rebranding when you’re thinking about all of the costs and things like that that come from it. So that’s a little bit of my perspective. I’d be interested to hear what some of the others here think about the differences between the two.

[00:28:20.64] spk_3:
I think sometimes it’s a little bit hard to tell whether you need a refresh or rebrand when you’re just kind of asking that that question of where our organization needs to grow. Um, so one of the organizations that I used to work for in Hong Kong, we felt like we just needed a refresh. We said We just need to kind of tweak the mission statement because I don’t think it’s quite sitting right. What ended up happening was, um, as we started asking the questions of what’s not right about this, what’s what. How are other people seeing our organization? We actually realized we needed to revisit the vision, the mission. We redid the logo. We redid our brand colors like and that was not where we thought we would end up. We thought we were just tweaking a couple of words. Um, so I You know, obviously this is this is also dependent on how much budget you have, how much capacity your team has. Um, but I’d say that it’s a little bit hard to know when you’re just starting the process.

[00:28:40.52] spk_0:
Okay, So is this a little bit of a cautionary tale that this thing can? Can Raval unravel out of control?

[00:28:46.74] spk_3:
It absolutely can

[00:28:48.54] spk_0:
boundary put boundaries around it.

[00:28:50.54] spk_3:
It absolutely can. But also, you know, you don’t have to do everything at once just because you know that eventually your organization needs to be in a state where you have rebranded, you can take smaller steps. Now, you know, we could have started with saying, OK, let’s let’s just tweak a little bit and then we’re going to keep keep working on it. Yeah, so it could be like,

[00:29:13.99] spk_5:
you know, let’s just risk in our website a little bit, and that’s a refresh versus Let’s redo our mission statement our values and our logo and our

[00:29:23.85] spk_0:
power

[00:29:24.26] spk_5:
point templates and our website and that’s a rebrand, right.

[00:29:28.14] spk_0:
And? And Christopher, what does this mean for the fundraising at, uh, bite back?

[00:29:34.54] spk_6:
Thanks, tony. Eso for us. We were making a big pivot from 60% government fundraising to trying to get a more sustainable model and approaching corporations and foundations and individuals in a different way. And so it really set us up in a way that we were able to highlight those other things and shared what we’ve been doing in a different way and have that at the forefront of our mission and our values and our activities in a way that people began to see that and see the workforce development and see that we were part of the tech community, not just a small training provider in a public library.

[00:30:03.92] spk_0:
So this was intentional on in your orc that you wanted to diversify revenue. That was that was known going into the rebrand.

[00:30:14.78] spk_6:
Yeah, Absolutely. Was definitely a driving point for us.

[00:30:20.34] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Um, so let’s stay with you, Christopher. What? What do you think organizations should be thinking about or what? Like what? Questions should they answer in advance of either a refresher or rebrand? Or but you could you could make it. You know, you could stick with the rebrand, since that’s what, like Back did.

[00:30:36.94] spk_6:
Yeah, great question as well. And I know my fellow Panelists and go to that even deeper for us to

[00:30:41.99] spk_0:
great questions. Already s all downhill downhill from here. You got a very lackluster host. I’m surprised.

[00:31:09.84] spk_6:
Make the exit. Um, e um, for us. Yet defining the goals up front was really important. And so it was revenue. It was fundraising and thinking about how it was going to impact that, but also how it impacted the participants, that we work within the community, how they would see what we’re doing, how our partners would see us and and making sure that we were able to reflect, um, the values in a different way. So So setting those goals up front and knowing who your stakeholders are, you’ve got to define your stakeholders and who needs to be involved? Um, it is going to be more than just a communications department, um, during the development apartment and finding those before you start, it’s always going to be a key.

[00:31:30.34] spk_0:
Okay, Um did that Anything you wanna add? Thio? Uh, What What bite back was thinking about before you got started?

[00:32:16.04] spk_4:
Yeah, I would add that It was a really important part of our process involving our students who are adults taking our computer training. When at the beginning of the process of kind of looking at a rebrand Andi actually, looking at our mission statement, I brought it to a class of our students, and the language didn’t connect with them. Um, there were clear quotes of saying like, I don’t wanna be called underserved. Like, What does that mean? I don’t relate to that. And that really helped us in the process of getting buy in from leadership and from the board toe, Have that student opinion really tied into our we brand.

[00:32:21.64] spk_0:
So if that where did the process start? Was it between you and Christopher or because you said getting leadership by in So it didn’t start at the very top. Where did the conversation about this project start?

[00:32:33.24] spk_4:
Um, it really started with me. I was looking at our language. Our look on dhe kind of went through the process of getting that buy in and involving other leadership in the conversation and building it out,

[00:32:58.69] spk_0:
okay? And I do want to spend some time. We’ll get Thio getting that, making the case to the CEO, et cetera. Um, let’s see what else Eso taylor? What else? Uh, I guess we’ve kind of exhausted. Like what you should be thinking about. What? About? Do you have advice around finding the right provider to work with for your for your rebrand?

[00:33:12.34] spk_5:
Yeah. I mean, that’s a good question. Um, you

[00:33:15.08] spk_0:
were going from great to good. See that already? I told you that.

[00:33:18.44] spk_5:
Great e don’t know if I can handle this. Those by the

[00:33:21.80] spk_0:
end, by the end of the that was a lousy question, but I’ll do the best I can

[00:33:25.49] spk_5:
with tony. There was an all right question. That was an

[00:33:31.21] spk_0:
all right question. Going downhill very rapidly. Go ahead.

[00:34:08.14] spk_5:
You know, I think you could go through r f P processes. If you want to depend. I think on how much you are doing a refresh, you know, versus a rebrand. Uh, I would say a couple of my tips. Its first. Ask who you ask in your circle. Who you know who’s good. Um, see, if you have a friend and other organizations who have worked with someone to help them and see what that experience was like. I didn’t think if you do go into, like, an R F P process where you’re saying, Hey, I wanna this is what we want, you know, providers. Um, how can you service? I think just being very upfront about your needs is really important. I think a lot of times it’s easy to sort of, like put something put in, r P out there and then not be very specific. I think the more specific you get about your needs and the more authentic and conversational you are about that those needs in that process helps both the organization shopping for provider and the provider who is thinking through how they can best serve that organization.

[00:34:38.04] spk_0:
Sorry, you got some suggestions, like maybe things

[00:34:40.35] spk_2:
I wish

[00:34:41.23] spk_0:
people had thought through or asked before started. They started working with you.

[00:36:10.93] spk_3:
Yeah, so I definitely think well, back to your earlier question about things to think about. I think timing is a really big questions. So one of the first questions I always ask my clients is, Do you have a deadline? And when I say a deadline. I don’t mean in the sense of like, Oh, yeah, we want to get this done by next week. I mean, do you have a major fundraising event coming up? You know, Are you printing? You know, a new annual report anytime soon, because all of those things are major touch points with your clients that, um you would want to get right with your new branding before having those events. You know, the worst thing is, when you have your major gala dinner, your major fundraiser and then two weeks later you say, actually, just kidding. We’ve rebranded. Right? So you really wanna consider consider the timing of it? Um, I would say also in terms of picking, you know, someone Thio help you work on this. Having outside help really, really does help. And I’m not just trying to make a case for, like, all the consultants out there, Um but I think having fresh eyes um, What I found when I was working in house at a non profit was that I was so in it and I was using the language every day. I was using the materials every day that I couldn’t kind of take a step out to see what was wrong with it. Ah, nde, it really took. We were lucky enough to have the support of a pro bono agency. So that’s another consideration. There may be local agencies, advertising agencies or marketing agencies that may want to volunteer their time to support you in this area. On DSO, using that pro bono agency really helped us to get a fresh look on what we had been like struggling through for for a number of years,

[00:37:10.73] spk_0:
time for our last break. Dot drives that drives engagement that drives relationships. Dot drives is a donor pipeline fundraising tool, and it is the simplest one out there. If you want to move the needle on your prospect and donor relationships, get the free demo for listeners. There’s also a free month. You go to the listener landing page at tony dot m. A slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for rebrand versus refresh. Did you do R f p or what was your process at bite back?

[00:37:17.13] spk_4:
I I let it. We had few of resource is like we have fewer resource is then because we didn’t have Chris doing this amazing fundraising work. Eso We spent about $270 at 99 designs and got a new logo, and I did most of the other work. Um, yeah, that that’s about how it happened.

[00:38:17.12] spk_3:
So I definitely think that you need someone internal. So even if you’re gonna find an outside consultant or outside pro bono agency, you need someone in house like event who’s like, really championing it, really driving it forward. Andi, I think the strength of what you did with fight back was that because you did all that research on discovery with your clients, with your donors, etcetera, that you were able to give very clear directions to these graphic designers that you were outsourcing the work thio in order to come up with a logo that actually fits What? You’re what you’re looking for. Yeah, that’s a good

[00:38:18.51] spk_5:
point. I mean of that. I’m glad you brought that up to. I think a rebrand doesn’t necessarily have to be out of your budget. There’s ways to do it. No matter what budget you have, you might have the budget to go out and hire an agency to do this or you might have the budget to freelance it and outsource it. And there’s so many tools that make that easier these days with resource is like 99 designs and fiber and up work. You can get really good work. Um, you know, by using those types of resources to

[00:38:51.92] spk_0:
Christopher, did you end up joining bike back after the after this project? Because there was no development director before then. Uh,

[00:39:00.76] spk_6:
e started just before. Just was in a different role within development department

[00:39:09.42] spk_0:
E. Okay, Um, what do you What do you see? Is the development department contribution, Teoh a rebrand? Yeah,

[00:39:15.92] spk_6:
absolutely. So if raising money and the way you raise money is a part of the goal, then the development department and your donors and key stakeholders, whether that’s individuals or corporations or foundations that you’re already working with, um, getting their opinion and and understanding the way that they see us an organization is going to be really important in that.

[00:39:36.12] spk_0:
So did you survey or focus group or just how did you go about understanding what their perceptions are?

[00:39:44.32] spk_6:
Yeah, Well, we’ve done is pick out like individual, um, stakeholders that we knew would be willing toe talk for, you know, 10 minutes and get opinions and thoughts and and here the way that they do the organization whenever we’ve been through this process.

[00:39:58.72] spk_0:
Okay, So you just did as individual interviews?

[00:40:01.11] spk_6:
Yep. Absolutely.

[00:40:17.31] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Um event. Let’s let’s move Thio Getting the leadership by in. Uh, how did you approach that? You said you were the genesis of the idea. You have to get budget. You have to get time. Um, how did you How did you approach your leadership?

[00:40:22.81] spk_4:
Um, yeah, well, we had a new pretty new executive director at the time. And now our CEO, Elizabeth Lindsey. So a tw the same time that I was thinking about these things that was very much part of her role As she started thinking about the direction of bite back eso It wasn’t too difficult in my case. Thio get the buy in because it was clear we were founded in 1997. Um, our look, our feel our messaging was feeling like it wasn’t moving along with the direction of our work. Eso really We were partners in doing that and moving it along on dhe then as far as getting buy in from staff and board and other stakeholders. I think there are are always people who may be somewhat attached to an old look or a nolde feeling or an old message that you’re distributing. Um, but really, we had most people get on board pretty easily make good contributions as they were involved in the process, and asking them early on made a big difference in that,

[00:41:34.77] spk_0:
too. Sorry. Do you have some advice? Maybe for organizations that are not as unfortunate as if that was a bite back when there might be some reluctance?

[00:41:45.14] spk_3:
Yeah, eso in In the previous case that I was talking about, thankfully, the CEO was on board. However, what we didn’t realize this was a big mistake that we made was that you know, myself and some of the leaders in the organization with this pro bono agency, we kind of like went into a room and we came up with the new brand and then we you know, we just announced it to people and people were horrified. You know, this was a 30 year old organization, and, like Yvette said, people have really emotional connections to the old logo on dhe people. We got all kinds of questions, like, what’s wrong with the old logo? But we love the old logo. Ah, nde. And quickly we said we actually need to explain to people and bring people on board. Eso we

[00:42:36.80] spk_0:
did not. You did not evaluate who? The key stakeholders.

[00:42:39.80] spk_3:
No, we didn’t. We just kind of announced it at a staff meeting

[00:42:43.88] spk_0:
earlier. Okay?

[00:43:01.40] spk_3:
Yeah. And so and so what we did was we developed a a narrative for why we were doing this. We knew why, but we hadn’t told anybody. Why on dso we kind of outlined some of the challenges that we were having with our old branding and why it wasn’t working. Um, and then explain to people like, this is the vision of the next 30 years. This is where we wanna go. And this is why we feel this new vision really articulates not only where we’ve come from, but also where we’re going. Um And then at that point, we then went and did a whole stakeholder mapping on who are major donors who absolutely needs to know. Before we publicly launched the new brand because that was really important for people who had been involved with the organization for a very long time. It was especially important to get them on board. Um, and then one final tip that our agency gave us, which was excellent advice, which was, if you can give people a very small gift with your new branding on it. So we actually just came up with, like, a little bookmark that was very cheap, very cheap to make that we gave all of our donors all of our volunteers on Basically, the agency explained to us, the psychology is that people will feel mawr engaged when they own something. They feel like they also own the brand on dso that that was a really good move on our organizations

[00:44:12.41] spk_0:
part. Taylor, you have you have ideas around executive Buy in?

[00:44:48.19] spk_5:
Yeah, I think going back to just pulling in stakeholders early is important. Um, getting people to sort of workshop out in a room. Why, this is important and what the goals are behind it. And you know, something that I’ve done before in this kind of work shopping exercise is really just casting like the big picture vision of like, who are we? And how are we even trying to explain that? You know, what are the words we want people to think about? When when they think about our organization. For example, Andi even doing some fun exercises. Like what? You know, car, are we like, or what movie are we like? And, like, some of those kinds of exercises in a workshop can really pull out the creative juices and getting people to start thinking in a little bit of a different way. And then I think if the team feels like they’ve come up with it together, then they’re bought in, um, as opposed to because I’ve also been in those situations like Syria, where the marketing team wrote something out. And then you’re like,

[00:45:23.02] spk_1:
Hey, this is

[00:45:23.57] spk_5:
what we’re doing and everyone, huh? Why? And so, you know, also going through that learning, learning from those experiences and deciding, Hey, we need to bring in stakeholders from across the organization in a lot earlier to really talk about, like, who are we and what is our brand? Let’s talk about that first, and then that will help us think through

[00:45:45.79] spk_3:
what does

[00:45:46.13] spk_5:
the new brand need toe look like. And what does it need to say about us?

[00:45:49.80] spk_0:
Yeah, filling that gap between current perception and what? Where we actually are or wannabe. Um, Christopher, I’m gonna give you the last word since you’re in development, and you can again speak to what? What? What? The impact was what the great outcomes were for. Bite back.

[00:46:07.48] spk_6:
Yeah. So for us, we’ve gone from a $2 million organization to a $3 million organization and 60% government funding to 25% government funding. Um, yeah, it’s been a It’s been real for us.

[00:46:58.88] spk_0:
Okay, It could be real for you to We’re gonna leave it there. All right, that was That’s Christopher Wallace, development director. Bite back. He’s in New York City with him. Is, uh, that scores communications director. Bite back. She’s in Washington, D. C also, Taylor Shanklin, Sugar Mountain, North Carolina in the west of North Carolina and founder, branding and communication strategist exist in Memphis, Tennessee, on Tele Shanklin, vice president of Growth at Firefly Partners. Christopher, development director, bite back and event communications director. Bite back. Thanks to each of you. Thanks all for Thank you so much.

[00:47:02.48] spk_3:
Thanks, tony. much. Tony,

[00:48:14.58] spk_0:
Thank you. And thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Finale Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for free 60 day trial Thanks so much for being with us next week. Amy Sample Ward returns with a report on Equity in Technology. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives, raise more money changed more lives for a free demo and a free first month. Tony dot Emma slash dot Our creative producer is clear. Meyer, huh? Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this excellent music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York You with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for September 28, 2020: End Of Year Fundraising

My Guest:

Jen Frazier: End Of Year Fundraising

Jen Frazier talks you through. What do you want in your workplan? How does the pandemic impact your strategy? It’s a comprehensive convo for your 4th quarter. She’s founder of Firefly Partners.

 

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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[00:02:04.74] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of or a facial granuloma if I came to learn that you missed today’s show. End of year fundraising in Fraser talks you through end of your fundraising. What do you want in your work plan? How does the pandemic impact your strategy? It’s a comprehensive convo for your fourth quarter. She’s founder of Firefly. Partners on tony Stick to Planned Giving accelerator were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money, changed more lives. Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant a free month. My pleasure. Thio Invite for the first time to the show, Jen Fraser. She founded Fire Fire Fire Fly Partners in 2007 and has more than 20 years of experience in the nonprofit sector. She’s been at Planned Parenthood Federation of America and part of the team that planned and executed the march for women’s lives in 2004. Ah, high point in her career, she lives in Boulder, Colorado, with her two kids and gets around mostly by bike. Jen has a knack for putting things together, from project budgets and puzzles to Ikea furniture. The company is that Firefly partners dot com, and she’s at Jenna T. Firefly like Rufus T. Firefly, who knows that movie reference? Rufus T. Firefly. But she’s Jenna T. Firefly with one end. Yeah, T Firefly. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:20.24] spk_0:
Thank you so much. Great to be here. And yeah, it’s just it’s Jen at Firefly. So it’s done up. It’s It’s just Jan with one in at 80 Firefly or Twitter. Not genital.

[00:02:20.93] spk_1:
Your Twitter, your Twitter.

[00:02:23.02] spk_0:
It’s Jen at Firefly. Partner Janet Firefly is my Twitter, but it’s not Jenna T. It’s Jen at sea. It’s eight.

[00:02:30.95] spk_1:
Okay, look, look back at the email that you sent me on you said Gente Firefly. So I immediately thought of Rufus T. Firefly.

[00:02:40.24] spk_0:
Well, I like it. I like the reference to so that’s okay with me.

[00:02:49.04] spk_1:
It’s old Groucho Marx, but it doesn’t, but it’s it’s totally inapt because that’s not your Twitter. So your Twitter is

[00:02:58.44] spk_0:
Gen. At Firefly Gen. At Firefly. Yeah. Oh, well, I know I just Okay, Right

[00:03:16.27] spk_1:
now, we’re I’m quibbling. No, it could be Jenna t Firefly. Or it could be Jen at Firefly. Alright, so no. So your email was not incorrect. All right, so I take that part back. Your email was not incorrect. It’s just how we’re reading letters. E n a t I read. Oh, I read Jenna T Firefly and you read it, Jen, at Firefly, Your middle initial is not Is your middle initial by t By any chance?

[00:03:29.71] spk_0:
It is not.

[00:03:30.78] spk_1:
Because then I would’ve had a big score. All right? It’s not all right. Alright, so All right, so Alright, alright. I do apologize for saying your email was incorrect. That’s not true. It’s okay. Jenna T Firefly or Jen at Firefly. I’m sure you’re gonna get a ton of new followers now because we

[00:03:49.57] spk_0:
just wait. I gotta go. Look this up. Get this

[00:04:12.44] spk_1:
into the ground now. Yeah, OK, but I like the Rufus t Firefly reference to, so All right, I’ve got some construction going on here. You may very well here. There you go. There’s banging. You might hear some cutting banging, uh, crow borrowing crow. Barring my deck is being replaced. And, uh, you know when when you can have a contractors who works, you don’t tell them and send them off the job.

[00:04:18.91] spk_0:
No, you do not. You know, they show up, you put them to work.

[00:04:40.44] spk_1:
That’s right. And they continue working. And I don’t You don’t You don’t stop the working contractors so we’ll persevere. Uh, it’s just like in the background. But that’s the that’s the construction noise is on my side. In case yes, there is there wondering. Um, all right, end of your fundraising. What do we have Thio Do you have to keep in mind, like overview first and we’ve got plenty of time to spend on some details?

[00:06:01.64] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s obviously that time of year. Um, it’s ah, it’s a particularly crazy time of Europe, but we can’t can’t stop the end of your fundraising. For most, you know, non profit sits the bread and butter moment for most org’s. Um, I would say what we’re hearing and what we’re seeing from a lot of clients, which we’ll talk about in more detail, is certainly the Should we do it? How do we do it this year? Super crazy? I would say Absolutely. Yes, yes and yes, very enthusiastically. You have to ask on Dhe. You can’t be afraid. Can’t be shying away from it. But I’d say the biggest piece that’s different this year. Um, it’s sort of the contextualizing and sort of the way you’re going to go about your messaging. Um, obviously, people know kind of the fundamentals, generally speaking. But I would say the biggest mistake we see nonprofits do is you sort of have, like, not that much messaging. It’s a little bit cold. And then suddenly you’re like, Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You just, like, go straight in to the asks, like right away. And you hammer your supporters, um, which you know, might work OK in some years. But I’d say this year it’s certainly worth thinking about sort of again, like the context, the ways in which you’re approaching that messaging, but certainly try to mix it up also a little this year. Maybe not. Just go straight with just hard core messaging, messaging, messaging. Ask ask ass. We’re gonna talk about some of the ways you can kinda add a little bit, um, into your typical end of your messaging for folks who have only ever done sort of just straight like, Oh, well, I’m going to do a couple of things around giving Tuesday and then I’m gonna just hammer the last week of December or something like that. I would encourage you toe start now and start planning earlier and start thinking about some different messaging, arcs and timing to just provide your list a little more relief on dhe to sort of stand out in different ways because it’s gonna be Yeah, I think looking for some of the few fewer dollars it might be around this year. It’s gonna be more important ever than sort of like really refining and honing messaging that you go into the end of your with

[00:07:13.72] spk_1:
it. Sounds like some of what you’re suggesting is a little softer compassion. Maybe absolutely no,

[00:08:46.24] spk_0:
that I think you’re right on it. Za compassion space. I think that, you know, really key components that folks would you typically dio and definitely should try to dio, maybe even more so. It’s not just sort of the typical sort of Hey, look at all the great things we’ve accomplished this year, which is always a real key piece of any end of your look at the great things that you know we’ve accomplished together. I think some of the big pieces years also messaging and we standpoint from your non profit to your supporters, even if they haven’t been that responsible, been, um, real active in giving this year because it’s been a little bit of ah, anomaly for everyone still really contextualizing. It is we, but also really recognizing that everybody is in the same boat right now, and everybody is in a obviously very uncertain, unknown, probably economically challenged position. But that doesn’t change the work that you’re doing the organization and the critical nature of the support that folks can give to really help. You know, diseases don’t stop in a pandemic. We obviously get worse there. You know, the environment obviously isn’t getting any better. All whatever your cause might be. It’s still critical work. It was critical before. It’s still critical. Don’t try to downplay sort of the need to stone message about the importance of the work you’re doing, but obviously be very compassion. Leading I think with the messaging is probably one of the more little things in the context of this and saying you’re Yeah, I

[00:08:49.94] spk_1:
understand. What are some of the pieces that you feel belong in your end of year work plan

[00:08:57.04] spk_0:
in the work plan? So I think some of the things that folks are kind of experimenting with even more so this year is ways to make your messaging connect with your folks. So some of the suggestions I’ve heard from people that were incorporating with some folks is even just doing small video snippets that you might embed or drive You can either embedded in the messages themselves that you’re sending or have links. You know, just just have ah, still of the video that links to the embed on your site. Things like that from your either from your executive directors, maybe, or some of your program people, or even most effectively, some of your he volunteers that you might have, or donors that have been long time supporters of the organization, um, to really bring again that message and bring that face to face element into your messaging when obviously we’re all in a very disconnected distanced world right now, bringing the face of the organization so I can not just the team members by folks who are out there doing your work. If you had the opportunity to host or do some virtual event work, or maybe did your gala remotely this year providing snippets there again and or links back to that on your website so that people can, you know, kind of review if they weren’t able to attend the you know that live version of it you know, China showing some of that work and again showing some of that interactivity that you are incorporating. Um, and if you didn’t have the opportunity to do that this year, you could even right now incorporate um opportunities first with live fundraising, even during your end of your campaign, I know it’s gonna be a busy month for folks, but especially early in the month, you could hold a little virtual fundraising event a ZX part of your end of your If you’re feeling

[00:10:58.56] spk_1:
early in which month

[00:11:01.24] spk_0:
early in December. Sorry, it’s sort of in the heavy. Giving somewhere either around giving Tuesday at the beginning of the month or somewhere that you find is a strategic moment for you, probably not as it gets closer to the end of the month because there’s just too much going on. So it’s a either leading up to or right around or immediately after. Um, you could do it. Thank you. Virtual kind of giving an opportunity. Thanks for all the work that we’ve done this year. Help us. You know, with a big push and end of your there are lots of different ways you can sort of incorporate that messaging into your into our potential. Like many live event, even in the December time frame that really draw enthusiasm into

[00:11:50.84] spk_1:
your I have a couple of a couple of questions around. What you just asked, What were you just talking about? The video snippets. Might we put those what, on a like a fundraising landing page?

[00:12:12.14] spk_0:
Yes. Yes. I mean, you could certainly obviously host them in the m e o or YouTube, but you embed them on a landing page, that right there as they’re watching it, they have the opportunity to give right at them, motivated the You can bend them and bend them right on your donation form for sure. And they can play right there as your and then they could give right at that moment. That’s your best case scenario. Don’t Don’t make people click too many times. You’ll lose them, obviously. Or don’t just send them to you. A video off YouTube. That doesn’t provide them the opportunity to give

[00:12:32.17] spk_1:
that a call to action. Right. Andi, we’re talking End of your fundraising. So that called action is make a gift,

[00:12:38.26] spk_0:
Make a gift and yeah,

[00:12:40.48] spk_1:
mentioned fundraising, Many events. They’re a little more about that flesh. Shut out. What do these look like? How do we promote them? How do we get folks to come to them?

[00:14:50.34] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, just like obviously, with any event now in the in the virtual space, you can do it just as easily as this. Like you can hold a zoom call. You can provide folks links. Obviously. Zoom in any of these, you know, virtual. You know, Dylan, you want to provide security so that you’re not going to get spammed or you have too many other folks coming in. But if you send it out to your list or a segment after your list, you can also find this is an opportunity to say, Hey, my already active donors, I would like those folks to come to a special event. You could also make it sort of like a V i p kind of event or things like that, for for segments of your lips, like you’re high level donors or things like that, we could make it more personalized setting where smaller groups are coming together and having the opportunity to interact with each other. Lots of times, we we suggest, folks. Then hold a zoom in a conference style where you’re presenting and your attendees air and sort of listen Onley mode and you’re presenting content. And so the important pieces there are, you know, think about the message and you wanna put forth you obviously right, a full script. You’re doing lots of promotion again if you’re doing it in a very segmented way, you’re targeting those messages only just a smaller subsets of your list, or you could make it more broad, but you’re going to provide a secure log in for folks you’re going to then say, Who’s gonna be on that? Maybe maybe it’s just a now or two of, you know, thinking again. Highlights of the year. We want to really think you know folks who’ve turned out for us. We want to show some of the results. You’re putting together a little script, and you’re obviously building a message there of motivation, care, compassion, connection with your, you know, with your supporters and and providing throughout opportunities where you’re showing a link to give opportunities where you can again, like in bed. Some of these videos, later on a landing page of people weren’t able to attend and alive instance. And it’s all about compassion, first connection, understanding the importance of the work that you’re doing and just doubling down on the mission of your organization that work again. It’s still is still critical, but it’s really important to sort of just draft a script. Make sure you have, like if you’re gonna have key guests come in, you have them all and sort of that they’re in presenter mode. And so if you’re passing the baton, everybody knows when they’re speaking what they’re speaking about. You kind of drafted that all ahead of time and, you know, you could do run through. I highly recommend doing doing run throughs before you actually show up for a live event so that everybody knows sort of the cues and handoffs and all that and what’s gonna come next. And oftentimes people will put live, you know, snippets in the middle of prerecorded content, which helps sort of take the pressure off of, you know, needing to be live and speaking for the whole whole time. But usually an hour or two is plenty, and that’s all people really have to give, you know, a lot of times to attend some of these live events. I think people feel like they need to come up with, like, tons of content and tons of time. But mostly, we say, keep it short and sweet.

[00:16:43.65] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Just this week, a friend got an extensive quote in Business Insider magazine. I asked him how he landed it. He had a relationship with the journalist the writer called him when he needed someone with recruiting expertise. Turn to will help you build journalist relationships like that so that journalists call you. That’s how solid the relationships are. Turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners, Peter Panda Pento, was an editor at the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to end of year fundraising. I’m hearing folks are mhm. I don’t know if burned out is too strong, not burned out with it without, But I’ll use it getting burned out with screen time.

[00:17:50.74] spk_0:
Oh, yeah, you don’t Your everybody right now is and I just call it zoom fatigue. Even if you’re not using Zoom gonna hang out whatever urine screen fatigue, screen fatigue. So I would say the other piece there is sort of make it fun, you know, make it like, interesting. And like people have been having I’ve seen really fun like little parties where people are, you know, encouraging other people to sort of show up, dressed up like have your like, maybe make it a virtual holiday party and giving that kind of thing and sort of like, you know, you’re not doing a lot of going out right now anyway, so go out, but stay in and sort of like, make it, um, make it fun as you can and make it sort of party like or really again, it’s It’s a good opportunity to really think and be in a space of gratitude for the folks that have continued to show up for your organization through obviously, what’s very topsy turvy kind of year and just again reemphasize the work that you’re doing and it is to continue it.

[00:18:08.44] spk_1:
So let’s talk about the pandemic because that’s obviously still in full bloom and will be through the end of this year. We’re talking end of your fundraising s. Oh, you did mention being mawr compassionate. Softer What other? What other advice are you giving around messaging?

[00:18:16.94] spk_0:
So I think it’s an interesting thing right now as you’re planning this, if you think about hosting either just the message you’re going to do in your emails or if you’re going to do some of these sort of adding video content or even go to live, think about the timing and which is gonna happen to us. You’re going to do this messaging in what is probably gonna be a really extra hard time, because we’ve had maybe a little bit of a respite over the summer where you’ve actually been able to go outside and you’re your mental space is probably okay right now. But really be thinking about were months into then winter and really being enclosed, and it’s gonna be a double down. I’m a little.

[00:18:55.59] spk_1:
We’re talking about doing something in late November or early December,

[00:18:59.16] spk_0:
like think about what? That’s going

[00:19:00.66] spk_1:
to full month. So it’s full all of October and all of November away,

[00:19:52.14] spk_0:
right? So you’re already like, you’re like, I’m I’m, you know, feeling even, maybe a little bit. Like I think this is gonna be a hard winter for a lot of folks just because of, well, who knows what’s gonna happen? The election, that whole You know, what not, but because the pandemic isn’t going away and I think it’s probably going to see a bit of a surge again, as we do with, like, most flu like, it’s just one of those things you kind of just be really cognizant of, like how to think about again, my personalization. And again, this is where you could take take your your segmenting with your list very seriously and kind of say okay, great thes air folks that I’m gonna go maybe a little bit softer with my message, you know, because maybe they have been on my list that haven’t been as active. Think about ways you can sort of take your key mission elements and, you know, just maybe try toe, tweak it in a bit. Maybe that you haven’t before or just think about ways you can serve again, like personalized it or keep it, um, you know, try new hooks. Try new ways to help people think about the ways in which your work Think about what’s been happening with the organization over the course of the year during the pandemic and how you maybe have had thio toe alter what you do a little bit or tweak it a little bit because of the, you know, distanced space were in and really, you know, to find that a little bit better for folks or help people make the connection. Sometimes, obviously, people aren’t seeing maybe how your work is tied or has been affected by the pandemic. Highlight some of those things because I think

[00:20:37.55] spk_1:
vulnerability like, don’t be afraid to be vulnerable.

[00:21:11.04] spk_0:
Absolutely, absolutely, like differentiate your messaging by. Here’s how we’ve been impacted. We’re right here with you were having struggles to don’t over downplay like doomsday and messaging, but sort of just be up. Be honest. We all been like we’ve been struggling. This has been a hard year for everybody. Here’s how it’s impacted us and put that out there because I think one of the things that’s been most helpful or multiple most interesting for us. Working with org’s is that vulnerable space. The don’t try to put on the sheen of Like Everything’s fine. It’s all gonna be OK. It’s OK to sort of say, you know that you’re worried and and the impact that is actually having on your work or how you had to

[00:21:24.25] spk_1:
appreciate that That that honesty absolutely openness again vulnerability.

[00:21:29.64] spk_0:
Its key. I think so. The compassion with you know, the this key. But I think the vulnerability is probably even a better word. Thio

[00:21:36.97] spk_1:
genuine. It shows that you’re genuine, sincere, absolutely human,

[00:21:41.55] spk_0:
E I mean, that’s

[00:21:43.29] spk_1:
lose our humanity over

[00:21:44.49] spk_0:
this. This is the space where the humanity I feel like actually Muchas there zoom fatigue. It actually, for me is help sort of bring a lot of humanness into people that I’ve had a very professional relationship with in the past, where you’ve actually been like Oh, you know, my kids were running through or, you know X is happening you’ve got contractors in your house, you This is it. This is life. This is who we are and really leading with that human to human connection. We see people in

[00:22:13.08] spk_1:
their kitchens. Absolutely. I saw someone in a in a bedroom because the kids were out in the other. The other parts of the house. I think that’s why should. She was in her

[00:22:49.34] spk_0:
best, like everyone’s trying. And so you’re like carving out your own. You’re trying to carve out a space to do your work. Be a partner, be a parent with all the different, be a daughter’s. You’ve got multi generations and houses. You’ve got all sorts of things happening, and it’s it’s showing in a way right now, which I think is actually quite beautiful on Dhe. I think if organizations can really lead with that space, I think that’s where people feel. The connection is what drives people to give. I mean more than sort of like Certainly it’s the impact that organization, but it’s like the people doing the messaging connect with the people who are, you know, driven to give. That’s you’ve got those key emotional moments that drive the giving and so trying to find those and again leading with that humanness vulnerability. It’s critical, critical right now more than anything, and people are starving for riel connection. And not just these sort of like Okay, great here these Polish, you know, webinars and hear all these great glassy materials. It’s like actually, we really, like yearn for the person connection that human connection is critical. So I would say, Definitely lead with that.

[00:23:39.04] spk_1:
I’ve always thought you know you just because you just referred to glossy pieces. I’ve always thought that sincerity Trump’s production values

[00:23:47.84] spk_0:
I don’t

[00:24:06.22] spk_1:
have toe have pro mix and lighting and pro video someone sincere with a with a phone in their hand, shooting themselves for 30 60 90 seconds with a heart felt thank you. Or here’s our need type message that I think that trumps all the whatever.

[00:24:31.64] spk_0:
I think that’s actually a good sort of also like kind of lesson or take away is like, don’t be afraid to try some of these things because you don’t have the right equipment or you don’t know what you’re doing, or it’s gonna feel like you’re gonna mess up well, good do. And don’t worry about having out like the best microphone or the lighting isn’t right or you’re gonna Look, you don’t have, like, look perfect. You know, you’re what, like, this is absolutely time. Just let all that stuff go. I think maybe before you’d have been maybe trying to be, like, put together a more polished video piece or something like that and have to have higher production team or something like that to do it. And I think a lot of times in the past you have folks would be really afraid to be like I can’t do like a video piece like, I I don’t I can’t afford to do that or whatever we get. You can, because you just have your you zoom or your Google meat or whatever, do it yourself or your phone exactly like you can do it. And it’s still with that connection that is going to drive people to give the glossy production piece like Not that you can’t. There isn’t a space for doing that at some point, but it’s not critical. It’s certainly not needed, and I think it doesn’t resonate as well,

[00:25:14.04] spk_1:
so you could have ah piece from your CEO or executive director? Totally. We’re talking about embedding email before embedding video email before, it could be something simple like that,

[00:25:23.54] spk_0:
Absolutely. And I honestly think that, like one of the things we’ve been trying to do a firefly is actually, I love executive directors. You’re amazing. You’re keeping it all together and you run all that stuff. But honestly, it’s the highlighting of the more of the front line staff. And the people like doing the dirty work. Sometimes you just want to be like those of the stories that, actually again, sometimes are told is often. And there’s sort of these bigger, yeah, kind of impact pieces. But if you just talk about you know Jane Smith, why is she does the work that she does? Why is she motivated? Even, you know, like, why does she show up every day and do the work that your organization,

[00:25:58.89] spk_1:
how your gift, how your gift helps me Jane do that work

[00:26:10.64] spk_0:
right? Exactly like that’s like, Yeah, I mean, I’ve had we’ve had some of the most amazing conversations with folks who are just why they’re motivated to do the work that they do every day at your organization is probably some of the most compelling content that you have, in addition to, obviously, the real life story of the impact you know, getting into and again like, maybe that’s the other pieces you’re highlighting if you have ah, direct impact type of organization, a story right from, you know, some family that’s been impacted by the work that you do, and they could tell their story. It’s again that getting as personal and real right now as possible is the motivator. Toe giving, I think the connection there.

[00:26:46.94] spk_1:
What about giving folks options? How much to give?

[00:28:41.24] spk_0:
Yeah. And again, this is again depending on how much data you have, your systems and how well you can segment, I’d say one of the biggest mistakes we also see people doing is not segmenting and giving folks, uh, different giving levels. Um, if someone has given, you know, $50 before, certainly starting them at 100 or something like motivate them like push them to go higher. Someone’s already given you 250 bucks. Start them, you know, with the form that says 500. I mean, like, really sort of try toe, motivate something, but you don’t want to give somebody, Obviously the $50 donor. Don’t drive them to the $500 form. So you do need to have a little bit of that segmentation. So this education and if you can’t or don’t know how to do dynamic gift arrays on your form based on, you know, don’t be afraid to even just say I’m going to create two or three forms and I’m gonna segment and send people toe for, maybe, or see if you can’t do in a dynamic format, don’t be afraid to at least try and give folks those different options. It is. There’s a million statistics out there about when you drive someone to a form that is higher, giving levels they will give more. They will. I mean, they just will. So go there, Get you know, mind your data. Find a way. Do whatever tools you have, find a way toe pull out and segment. You’re either non donors and drive them into at least an entry level of, you know, $25 starting going up or your mid level and your high level and drive them to the appropriate forms with the right giving levels don’t just sort of send them to that one generic form. You will see that a result with just a little bit of extra work to segment, um, and drive to the appropriate form.

[00:28:42.91] spk_1:
Absolutely. What about asking to make it monthly?

[00:30:06.74] spk_0:
Yeah, this is a moment where I think there’s always a little bit of tension for folks. Certainly, we want to just get the gift. Um, if you’ve got folks who and like, you know, there’s different, different times of the year that I think you could try to do one time to sustainer campaigns. Some argue very much. The end of your isn’t the time to try toe to do that because you’re just trying again, like get these, you know, mortgage gifts at the end of the year. But I find that if you could move into the that, the mid mid level donors that have been consistently will give, like a gift here, a gift there. This is a perfectly good time. Thio sort of turn it into sustain Ear’s for the following year. Again, if somebody is even giving you into the hundreds or thousands of dollars before do the math or again If you have the abilities with your tools toe, have it do it dynamically for you. Make it just so that that they become a recurring giver. They’re obviously going to get Mawr, but it feels like less impactful for them every month. Oh, you’re just going to give $20 a month? Oh, and you know what that’s gonna be because they’ve only given you. Maybe they’ve given you 100 $50 before as a one time gift or a couple $100. But if you turn it into that Oh, if you could just give us $25 a month, that’s equal to you know, three coffees or whatever. Um, obviously, we all know that the how the math works. So But I would say, Don’t try to take your you know, if somebody’s Onley giving you once before or those types of done again, it’s all about the data that you can collect a one time donor on Lee. Obviously, they’re gonna be less likely to just suddenly turn into a sustainer. But those folks who have given you a gift here and a gift there, or they give you every time it end of year. But that’s the only time they give those air really key people to sort of zero in on and say those air critical and more likely to turn into sustain er’s attend

[00:30:39.10] spk_1:
up here. So you do it for the right folks. And then it’s not likely that you’ll see a reduced end of your performance by asking, Would you like to make it monthly?

[00:30:50.94] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s your again. They have to look at your different data points. So if you say well, they would have given me $250 as a one time gift it in a year. But now I’ve turned them into a you know, a $40 month sustainer. Obviously you’re getting you’re getting $40 rather than 250 at end of year. But obviously the impact for your organization is much greater. Oh, yeah, you have to sort of. You have to look at the data carefully so you don’t just go about. My overall gifts might have decreased slightly, but my overall long lasting impact of the organization has certainly gone up.

[00:32:57.64] spk_1:
It’s time for tony stick to planned giving accelerator. I told you last week we extended the first class. So the first class is gonna start January 1st 2021. This is a brain dump. Everything I know about how to start and grow your plan giving program, I am going to teach to plan giving accelerator members. You want to get your plan giving program started in 2021. You’ve heard me talk about this so many times on I’m not done. By the way. Uh, if you don’t have a plan giving fundraising program, you can start in 2021. You don’t need a lot of money. You don’t need expertise. This is not only for your wealthy donors. It’s not gonna hurt your other forms of fundraising. All these air myths that people use to make a plan giving this black box this complex thing that they don’t think they can do on their own. You can. I’m gonna teach you how become a member of planned giving accelerator. You got to get everything I know about how to get this program started in 2021. All the information you need more detail and how to join is that planned giving accelerator dot com. I hope you’re going to join me, that is, tony. Stick to Let’s return, shall we to end of year fundraising with Jen Fraser. Just the importance of segmentation a couple of times.

[00:34:21.14] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s critical, and I know that we work with a lot of organizations, and that’s a burden or a barrier. It’s like this. There’s a There’s a level of effort there, that a lot of work. They’re still just sort of sending the same message. So their whole list and, you know, you get mixed results with that, I’d say not Not effective, you know, really, Overall is a strategy. So even simple segmentation that was like, You’ve never given before you’ve given once or you’ve given multiple times like almost every tool out there can allow you to segment. At least that was, you know, those kind of big buckets, Um, and in the messaging that you’re sending, obviously is a lot more of a gratitude stance, even with non donors. Just thanks for being a part of our community and that sort of stuff. You can still find ways toe. Thank people for being on your list the type of gratitude that you then put to a previous donor is much greater. So you can certainly be like Thank you for this. Think if you’re a lifetime giving amount, Thank you for, you know, also, um if they if you also know they’ve done other things, they volunteer. They’ve come to events like again. The more data you can find out about and the more personalized those messages can become, the better. You know, the stronger the connection you’re gonna make with that individual on the receiving end of that, the more they’re going to be motivated to go. Oh, they this organization cares. They’re paying attention. They know that I’m involved. They know what I dio and they care.

[00:34:36.16] spk_1:
They’re acknowledging there, thanking their grateful thinking before right?

[00:34:39.56] spk_0:
Not

[00:34:59.84] spk_1:
gratitude. Yeah, there’s back to humanity. Gratitude, gratitude, compassion, humanity. All those things really should often be in our fundraising or always be always be not just often always be in our fundraising, but like I hear so many times we will each heard 1000 times in the past six months so much more now because of the pandemic, because folks aer isolated, reach out and be that much more humane.

[00:35:10.68] spk_0:
Compassionate? What The compassion

[00:35:14.49] spk_1:
heartfelt, but I can’t think of any other adjectives.

[00:37:15.73] spk_0:
Well, those were all perfect on. That’s like, you know, and I would suggest that you do some sit down, you know, even just your team or you can, you know, get some messaging help from folks or whatever, but just sit and marinate in that space for a minute. Like, really think about your messaging. Really think about being in that compassion and vulnerable all those operatives you just listed in that space and thinking, What do I want to hear? You know, from organized Because obviously everybody that works and non profit almost I would say 100% of them give. It’s not their non profits. So think about what motivates you when you receive a message and, you know, really kind of double down on that and say, Gosh, alright, and spend the time if you can. Um, you know, if you’re starting now very much like, what can we do? How can we pull the data out? How can we learn more? How could we segment better? Um, and taking that time, we’ll have, um, really, really big impact on the outcomes that you’ll see in the giving space in the giving time because it’s a again, the more personalized, the better that connection, the deeper and the more you can you not be in a space of gratitude, I think is critical. Um, and it doesn’t have to be this huge burden so it can. Even even simple segments can make a big difference and taking people have given over. You know, you have to look at your giving and figure out where your thresholds or I won’t and say, Oh, these are the exact dollar amounts where you want a segment. But you look at your overall giving and you find where those breaking points are and where you really like, have a smaller again. How do you really, really, really pamper some of those high dollar donors and really show how much you care? What can you get back to them? Are there things that you can actually physically get back? Are you Are you sending gifts back or what? Do you? Are you sending stuff in the mail? What is it that helps really differentiate and show those folks, um, you know that you care in your

[00:37:22.94] spk_1:
That’s where a personalized video could be outstanding, like a or one of the other companies that does that, you know, Right? Snippets. 30 seconds a minute on the fly. You You’re walking Well, I walk on the beach, You’re walking on the beach. That’s the first thing I think of. But you’re walking on the sidewalk. Wherever you are. You can shoot a quick video to thank someone for a gift that just came in.

[00:39:01.72] spk_0:
Ah, 100%. That’s actually profit one. I didn’t actually talk about that. It’s That’s the follow up and the next steps. So you know, you get the gift. Amazing. What does that immediate auto think? Look like? I think a great opportunity. There is also. Yeah, Do maybe a video there or again. That’s that, Like viral piece, obviously. Then how can we help you really be motivated to just tell a couple of their friends about the work that we’re doing? Maybe they’re not even on our list. Maybe they’re not obviously gonna get incorporated into your end of your giving. But how can we then take this as an opportunity to grow your just overall this size? And then just to double down on that anybody that’s new, that’s coming into your list during this as a space. How are you welcoming them into your organization? IDEO personalized quick videos from again BDs or other staff? Or again, like the folks who are impacted by your work. Those all really bring a new person onto your list s so much more deeply, quickly. And then if they come in and they’re new, understanding that segment if they come in new in the in the next, you know 90 days how your messaging them and welcoming them and easing them into, you know, a gift. Ask like you don’t again like First Message like Out of the Gate. Even though it’s end of year, it’s suppressing the right folks to as well, a segmenting the right folks to the right message to. So there are. There are several different streams that happened in there, and certainly these tools that have really great marketing automation set up make it that much easier for folks You’re not, and they’re trying to do like a ton of like, re segmenting and re personalizing and data manually work on the automation pieces, understanding when folks are coming in and the different ways they’re coming in. And if they do that first gas, what’s the next? What’s the next and next? And

[00:39:30.44] spk_1:
so are there some tools that you like that you can

[00:41:30.91] spk_0:
recommend? You know, pretty much all the tools Right now, I think male Champ has good stuff for folks were just looking for a pretty, you know, good industry point for messaging. We use all use the market animation that’s involved, the every action and engaging network tools are great because then they just high right into those you know, donation forums that you make as well in the system. Obviously, um, even illuminate There’s great messaging automation. There’s so many email marketing tools out there, but those are the ones we work in the most. I would say that we find the majority of our clients, um, in and I’ve really Then, you know, I’m surprised I’m not surprised. It it feels like a lot and then be like, Oh, I gotta, you know, turn and, like turn into a data scientist almost to figure out how to, like, really do effective segmenting and messaging. But there are some simple automation is you can set up in these tools to really help take the burden off of you as well. And you can set a bunch of this stuff up, obviously a lot of time. So when the frantic nous of the like giving Tuesday to end of Your madness happens, most of those were already set and you have the message in there. Obviously, it’s not like a big surprise right now. You should have two sets of messages going on right now. Outcome A from the election and outcome. Be like Just do yourself a favor and right both sets now because you don’t wanna have to be scrambling. So many people in 2016 had all their yea Hillary messages already written. I hadn’t even thought that it would go the other way and let were literally scrambling. I don’t want to think about the other outcome, but unfortunately we have to say that’s a possibility. So do yourself a favor and just be ready with, you know, both both sets of messaging ahead of time so you can, you know, push the right one forward and you’re not scrambling at that moment to come up with the right messaging in that. What could be pretty devastating outcome.

[00:41:33.36] spk_1:
So so one letter has a picture of rays of sunshine. Another one. Another one has a dumpster fire

[00:41:40.26] spk_0:
on even then,

[00:41:42.23] spk_1:
conflagration in

[00:41:43.25] spk_0:
a sea. Hard as that is, it is challenging. And as it is, trying not to be overly doomsday if that with a bad outcome on the election end of your giving this again still gonna happen and still critical, and it actually might be even. Sadly, it’s sometimes the bad outcomes or more motivator. But either don’t try to capitalize it on too much and don’t try to be too dooms days. You kind of have to weave, and they’re in the middle between not like the world is on fire and we’re dying. We have to give and, you know, organizations or

[00:42:14.95] spk_1:
and let’s be egalitarian because I I don’t do politics on plan Giving that profit on non profit radio. Maybe doomsday scenario for you is a Biden,

[00:42:24.90] spk_0:
Absolutely. I mean, absolutely, that’s what they either outcome. You have to be ready with how your organization is kind of position, either outcome, So you have to start it just be like whatever that means for your organization. The outcome will obviously have a big impact. So just be ready with both sets. That’s Yeah, keeping it, you know, keeping it neutral. Just be ready in whatever that looks like for your

[00:42:50.20] spk_1:
order testing. Testing? How do we know if we’re doing these things correctly? How do we test different outcomes? What should

[00:45:26.99] spk_0:
we be testing? There is a lot, you know that you can still dio I’d say probably one of the most critical is, um, you know, in the midst of it, you could test subject lines because that’s obviously the first thing that’s gonna motivate somebody to get to hope it. And obviously, then there’s the subject line. Testing Almost every tool obviously has a B testing. And in the midst of it, you can send out and again when you are making your plan and your campaign calendar for the year, you build in some time for some testing and almost all these tools within take the winter and push push the winter to the fullest. Um, the other big one is, um, testing your landing pages and or you’re giving pages. So if you’re not familiar with something like Google optimized or something like that, take the opportunity now ahead of time and put a form A and form be could be things like one column or two column or one step or multi step different language. Different fields that you show that air default or required. There’s lots of different ways you could test and optimize your form again. Maybe you could start testing and seeing how a form with a video or without how those air resonating even ahead of time and take that information and put that into the equation of saying, Okay, great, you know, with our list, because every list an audience does perform a little bit differently. You can obviously go look and see what industry trends air showing. Um, there’s been big swings of, like, the one step form or the multi step form or the whatever, but you can try some of those, but I find that actually, what’s even more than the one step of the multi stuff? You could kind of get that down, but then within that you’ve got messaging in a tree fields on dhe, just overall. Um, you know all those conversion rates, you see what’s happening for, like abandonment rates and that sort of stuff. So looking to see which of those air happening on your form, so and then you know, beyond the subject line, Um, the message, content and layout itself. You could test, you know, more of a. I think we always, you know, we tend to move towards less content is better, But again, every every list performed a little differently. So just think about like Mawr images, fewer images, less words, more words in your messages themselves. You contest that now you know, do a lot of baby against that and then the follow up again, like we just talked about through that immediate think once you do get a conversion, what what’s the best thing to put in that next message? Should it be, tell friends, should it be like test that like what? What’s pressing for people? Once they do make a gift or do do a particular action? Always test that the next action, because that’s the most critical moment in the life cycle. With that, with that, you know, supporter, they’re already there. They’re motivated. You’ve got their attention. What’s that? Next thing you’re asking is you test that for

[00:46:30.28] spk_1:
sure. Time for our last break. Dot drives dot drives Engagement dot drives relationships dot drives is the simplest donor pipeline fundraising tool. If you want to move the needle on your prospect and donor relationships, get the free demo for you because you’re a listener. There’s also a free month. It’s all at the listener landing page we’ve got but loads more time for end of year fundraising. General, we’re testing some of these things like subject line or videos, message content. What’s the minimum size test like if you’re sending If your segment is 25 people,

[00:46:42.68] spk_0:
well, then you’re

[00:46:44.87] spk_1:
what What makes a legitimate test?

[00:46:47.71] spk_0:
I mean, I was a Yeah, depending on the size of your list, Um, I would like to get 10% you know, 5 to 10% at least of your list as a test. But, you know, you would like to ideally have, you know, again, depending on the size of your list, if you’re only gonna have under 100 or something like that, any any segment. Generally speaking, you’re not gonna have statistically significant amounts in there. Let’s say you have, but that’s okay. I mean, I would still say test But you have to know that there are There’s a break off point where you’re not going toe have, like, really statistically significant data. But you’re going to say, Hey, this this is the data I’ve got. I’m gonna run with it even if it wouldn’t pass the stats test, you know, test are

[00:47:32.22] spk_1:
it’s worth testing. Even a segment

[00:47:35.23] spk_0:
of sizes. Small. I would test, but I would say try to take a least a 5% sample. Um, I like a 10. You know, at least a 10% sample of your list and do run out side by side and then give it. You know, I would like to also give it. I give it 12 hours, you know, to look through like, how often people open 2012 to 24 hours before you then blast the winner to the remainder of the list

[00:48:01.36] spk_1:
for the other 90 to 95%. Yeah, okay. But you prefer 10% test.

[00:48:06.09] spk_0:
I mean, I would say you want again. Then like have a 5% getting a 5% right. 10% of your list, get a B, and then they get the winner to the remaining 90

[00:48:21.27] spk_1:
percent remaining. 90%? Yeah. All right. We got some time left. What? What? Haven’t asked about what? Haven’t you talked about that?

[00:48:26.37] spk_0:
You know, I would say, You know, I think there’s a lot of content in here. Maybe just sort of like a quick recap of sort of the Yeah, well,

[00:48:35.52] spk_1:
radio is jam packed with information that

[00:48:39.99] spk_0:
people like. Well, I’m talking. Well,

[00:48:41.54] spk_1:
they that’s podcast is ideal. Go back. Listen again.

[00:48:44.97] spk_0:
Listen again. You can always go back and

[00:48:47.10] spk_1:
take notes for your office to have discussions. Uh,

[00:48:54.91] spk_0:
tomorrow Tomorrow. It’s already remember September

[00:48:55.45] spk_1:
releasing this the week of September 28th

[00:48:58.33] spk_0:
grade. So fourth quarter is a week away. Yeah, I would say also, I was just pointing. Maybe a couple of resource is for people. If people are not familiar with the M N R benchmarks study that comes out every year and are seminar, so their website

[00:49:17.10] spk_1:
Hold on, hold on. Are you saying the letters m and r like Mike November Romeo or M

[00:49:26.17] spk_0:
and R and are

[00:49:26.84] spk_1:
thank you

[00:50:21.76] spk_0:
like Mike and Ross eso my NMR. But their website is m r s dot com, because it’s m and our Strategic Service’s, but it’s M R s s dot com. They have a benchmarks study that they put out every year. That is like a data playhouse, like they have. They get data from not just their clients. They put out these big, huge surveys and they bring in all this data and they analyze giving trends to the million degree, their charts and graphs and data and insights and all these things that you could go in. Look for your particular verticals. You can look for your list size. You can look for outcomes. They look at all sorts of factors along the giving spectrum and sort of say, here are basically industry trends across all these non profit. So if you’re looking for, you know, advice, like, what are other people seeing what air? You know, folks, you know, best practices that they’ve seen that great results. It is chock full of data in there. I mean, there are a million of these, like my favorite ones come from seminar. I think black would actually puts out a great um, it’s again like a giving guide. Neon serum has a great giving guide There, just lots of, um industry kind of stalwarts in the in the space that have these guys where you could go read and get information and sort of kind of, you know, put more arsenal into your I don’t like to use military or, you know, gun references, but it’s like putting more information into your tool belt. I’m saying, Great, I’ve got more tools. I’ve got more data and more thoughts about how I’m going to structure my end of your campaign to make it successful.

[00:51:14.27] spk_1:
Non neon C R m A ZX Well, as blackboard

[00:51:18.98] spk_0:
black bodies have one good ones

[00:51:21.34] spk_1:
s dot com

[00:51:28.06] spk_0:
like those are the three biggies. I would probably throw out there, um and really thought

[00:51:29.99] spk_1:
the platforms that you mentioned for email or and segmentation and personalization you mentioned mail chimp, Was it every action illuminate is that the

[00:51:54.27] spk_0:
41 illuminate illuminate engaging networks every action, you know, those were sort of the big ones that we have again. And also then I just mentioned neon neon is a great platform as well. Platform. So there are several, um, you know

[00:51:59.33] spk_1:
e take you off your Oh, no, you wrap up, but

[00:52:43.70] spk_0:
no, no, no. Those are good. I was gonna say that one’s r e just hammering home sort of again like that. The vulnerability and humanity and the messaging. I would say, if anything, just don’t use your standard messaging this year. That’s probably my biggest take away is really take a look at your messaging, your vulnerability, your positioning shiny impact being and that kind of, oh, bananas vulnerable self testing. Why you can at this point, um, make the time to do some testing. There’s nothing worse than also, then sitting out great messages and having them land on really kind of non high conversion landing pages. I guess the biggest thing I haven’t mentioned yet, which I’ll really throw it is mobile, mobile, mobile.

[00:52:52.30] spk_1:
Of course, it’s like it’s very you need to be mobile optimized by now,

[00:52:59.23] spk_0:
it bears repeating please. Almost. It’s like really start with your forms on a website on a phone, like something

[00:53:05.21] spk_1:
like 75% of emails or opened on a mobile device.

[00:53:08.41] spk_0:
At least I think that number every time I see one, it just keeps going

[00:53:12.38] spk_1:
going up. Maybe tonight

[00:54:54.34] spk_0:
eso your email and that landing page. Like those two pieces, I can’t stress enough because you’re gonna ask You’re gonna do video. Make sure that video, you know, everything is all former. Just test the heck out of everything like you really need to be like and as much as you can you can you use like, an email on acid to test on multiple platforms. So in multiple devices, because you know, email on acid as a tool that lets you as a non profit push your message and and those landing pages and, well, the emails on email and acid Google after my different operating systems. But a email on acid will show you what your email looks like on an iPhone 10 on iPhone six on an android, this on a galaxy, blah, blah, blah. And then you can say, Oh, because it looks amazing on your iPhone, but looks like garbage, you know, on the Samsung. Well, you know, you have thio look across all the devices and then you go Or are they reading this in Gmail? Are they reading this and outlook? Are they reading this and whatever So it’s email clients and vices. Let me tell you, that alone will keep you busy. Just testing on acid. Yeah. Email on acid. I mean, really, it’s crazy the amount of information that you see, and then you have to go back into the code and tweet like what has been quite a bit of this time. Like when you change your design, you change your layout, radio, you have to take it. You have to take into account the operating system and the device that somebody, the email client and then the device that somebody is looking because, um, it’s a crazy world there. That’s that’s probably the hardest part of making sure your emails look well. The landing pages are less taxing, but still take into account the operating system and the device.

[00:55:14.74] spk_1:
All right. Thank you. I wanna ask. I want to close by asking you what? What fun thing you have put together lately? You said you’d like to put together planning budgets. Ikea furniture. What have you done? Fun put together.

[00:55:20.44] spk_0:
I’m actually right now in the midst of redesigning my kitchen so that

[00:55:24.76] spk_1:
you have big contractors stuff going on.

[00:55:27.34] spk_0:
Well, I’m in the planning phase.

[00:55:29.32] spk_1:
Design you design. Okay, I’ve

[00:55:31.04] spk_0:
got a phase one right now where I’m gonna be heading to Ikea pretty soon and doing a pantry and sort of a built in area around my refrigerator. That’s my That’s my next one project and having answered, that’s my face one. So that’s just sort of blend a little bit with some of the existing kitchen before I can then carry that piece forwarding to the other cabinets and things like that.

[00:55:53.49] spk_1:
You ever looked to Container Store for organization stuff? Container store?

[00:55:58.94] spk_0:
I do love that. I kind of get lost in the madness of the container store because I love organizing, like in compartments and things like that. One of my favorite.

[00:56:08.21] spk_1:
Work it into your kitchen. I could door hanger or something.

[00:56:11.63] spk_0:
E I’ll see. Yes, it’s combination. If you have the E. K. F writes the structure and then in the container store gives you like all those storage options. But

[00:57:23.63] spk_1:
like all right, thank you very much. Jen. The company is that firefly partners dot com And she is, of course, at Jen at Firefly. Yeah, not Jenna T. Firefly. Next week, more from 20 NTC. Most likely if you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money changed more lives for a free demo and a free first month. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein It with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be

[00:57:27.33] spk_0:
great. Thank you, Thank you so much.