Tag Archives: donor relationships

Nonprofit Radio for May 3, 2019: Reducing Donor Abandonment & Welcome Your Donors The Right Way

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My Guests:

Matt Scott & David DeParolesa: Reducing Donor Abandonment
From Amazon to Zappos, there’s a lot you can learn from e-retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online gifts. Our 19NTC panel, Matt Scott and David DeParolesa, reveal proven e-commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from CauseMic and David is at Give Lively.





Brenna Holmes & Chrissy Hyre: Welcome Your Donors The Right Way
Your donors now complete their online gifts at record rates. Have you got in place a multichannel welcome and nurture series to receive and steward your new donors? Our panel will get you started. They’re Brenna Holmes with CCAH and Chrissy Hyre from Innovation. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Nonprofit Radio for January 18, 2019: Donor Centric

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My Guest:

Curtis Bingham: Donor Centric
To keep your donors, think and act like successful private sector companies. Curtis Bingham is founder of the Chief Customer Officer Council and a multi-award winning customer success strategist, conveying corporate methods to nonprofits.



Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Stone Battal Gia If I had two mouths. The words you missed today’s show donor-centric to keep your donor’s think and act like successful private sector companies. Curtis Bingham is founder of the chief customer officer counsel and a multi award winning customers success strategist. Conveying corporate methods to non-profits I’m Tony Steak, too. The reason to be an insider. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled twenty dahna slash pursuant by Wet your CPA’s guiding you beyond the numbers. Weinger cps dot com Bye. Tell us Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine I’m very glad that I can welcome Curtis Bigham to the show. Curtis End Bingham. He is recognized as the world’s foremost authority on chief customer officers, having helped more than two hundred from Coca Cola nationwide. MetLife, Oracle, JetBlue and other marquee companies. He helps build an explicit link between customers, success and the business value. Curtis is the founder and CEO of the chief customer. Officer Counsel, the first pure lead advisory group for see CEOs. The Council is that cco council dot or GE. And he’s at Curtis Bingham. Curtis. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Tony. Great to be here. Thanks to pleasure. You’re calling from Washington State, aren’t you? Just just outside of Seattle. It’s a rare sunny day here, so you don’t get a rare sunny day in the winter. I’m glad you’re with us. That’s right. Make you so, Curtis, you’ve you have consulted with Worked with Cem. Very high profile companies and brands. Um, I gather Ah, well, I know you will believe there are lots of lessons that non-profits can learn absolutely. I think it’s fascinating that some of the non-profits are now where a number of large private sector companies have been were, you know, ten twenty years ago where they started. Many of them started realizing that that they were losing Mohr customers out the back door than they were gaining in the front door. And, uh, and starting to realize that they really needed to start addressing the turn the revolving door out the back, because they just simply could not bring in enough new customers to replace those that they lost every year. And I think that, you know, based on the on my experience recently, I think that the Non-profit world is is kind of at that inflection point now where, where they really need to start focusing on on retaining donors rather than just trying to find new donors. Teo to keep their numbers up. I’ve had so many guests on talk about the difference in cost between retaining a donor and acquiring a new donor, and you’re not gonna have a lot of time to talk about retention. And that’s one of that’s the heart of your your customer centris ity. So that’s interesting. So you feel companies are fifteen or twenty years ahead of non-profits in this in this learning curve? Some of them some of them? Yes, some of them know, you know, fifteen to twenty years is is kind of about the threshold when when when people really start in the commercial sector, really started focusing on on on customer retention and customer issues. And, you know, that was about when I started started really diving into working with chief customer officers on. And it was, you know, it’s kind of fascinating. The very first one was out of Texas New Mexico power almost fifteen years ago, almost twenty years ago. Now it was a public utility company where they recognised that they, uh, that that customers have to have a voice. We have to give a voice to our customers in order to in order to keep them longer. And the rest of the industry started started tagging along, and it was a little bit nascent for a little while with the with the extreme customer focus. But it’s been in the last eleven years that that things have, really. They people have really, really focused on retaining customers almost as diligently and religiously as they are focusing on acquiring new customers. And that’s, you know, I’ve been doing working with the chief customer officer, counsel. I found it about eleven or twelve years ago. And, uh, and so that’s when. That’s when a lot of companies really, really started focusing on it and making it a priority, a sufficient priority that they have appointed an executive uniquely accountable to customers. Yeah, right, right, Theo, the chief customer officer, Who who are the customers of Non-profits? And I’m thinking donors, volunteers, potential donors. Are there others that I’m not thinking of? I think those are the those are the big ones and you know you’ve got within those ranks. You. I think a lot of people focus just on donors, but they miss all of the volunteers they don’t focus on on the volunteer experience, the volunteers who are the ones that were running the events and operating the events and helping Teo helping to bring in the money from from the individual donors. So it’s it’s. It’s fascinating to see that a lot of people forget that. But that’s a huge, huge piece that they need to be that cut that non-profits need to be paying attention to. In addition to just the just the people who give, you know, you can give of your time, you can give you your money and the people who do both or even more valuable to you. Yeah. Yeah. And we’re going to talk about you have some great strategies for stratify ing. The best people are that you need to pay the most attention to because, well, I don’t want to give away everything but, you know, you If you love everybody, you have to love. You can’t love everybody equally. We’re going to get to that, but you know they’re okay. But there are major brands that don’t stay customer centric and fade into irrelevance. You have a couple of examples. Just give us like a give us, like, two examples that have been just within the past. I don’t know. Twelve months or so of irrelevance. Major brands xero becoming irrelevant. Yeah. You know, there was had a fascinating conversation with the CMO of Panasonic a couple years ago, and he was while he was there. He’s since retired, but he asked a number of other company C M o’s Ah, In the high tech industry, what do you have a most afraid of And the CMO is the worst thing that they could imagine possible was that their brands could get lost in the noise and viewed as irrelevant by customers. And and and I think that it’s fascinating. Like you mentioned, a couple of big commercial sector companies have become irrelevant. You know, Sears declared bankruptcy last year. This was serious. Was was originally credited with removing racism fromthe shopping, eh? Experience because skin color disappeared when ordering from a catalog. And yet, you know, a few years ago, the Finance Year Eddie Lampert bought the company, milked all of the profits and refused to upgrade anything. And so now it’s a ghost town. And so they’ve They’ve dropped from twenty three hundred stores down to seven hundred, and they’re closing another seven hundred fifty. And, you know, I don’t know about you, but that’s your relevant in the minds on God. And as important as Ceres was, what? Like what? When did that catalog? I mean, is that? Is that one hundred year old company? I mean, Sears was serious, like the Amazon of its day. When the back in the catalogue day. Right? Right? Yeah, right. Yeah, there’s another one. There’s another one that G was. They used to own NBC Universal Studios, giant appliance company and one of America’s biggest bank. They were just late last year, removed from the Dow Jones industrial average after one hundred ten years. You know, there’s another great example of relevance. And then and then, you know, one of things that a lot of us have have run across here is this with the advent of uber and lift, and they’ve just kind of destroyed the taxi market that the medallions for the taxis in New York City, um, used to cost three hundred fifty thousand dollars originally cost. They now cost about three hundred fifty thousand dollars, but they were up to a million and right, and they’re all going there are going up in auction in foreclosure. I know people who know people who plan to retire on owning a medallion. You know, only a medallion or to have now seen that collapsed like fifteen or twenty per cent of its value. You hold your thoughts, Curtis. We take our first break will come. We’ll be right back pursuant a new free e book they have What’s that passes? They have a new free book. The Art of First Impressions. Do you need more donors? Uh, perhaps because you haven’t yet implemented Curtis’s ideas that we’re going to be talking about if Don’t acquisition is important to you. That’s what this is all about. It’s the sixth guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy. Howto identify your unique your unique value and use it, plus creative tips. Tony Dahna may slash pursuant with capital P for, please. All right, now, let’s go back to donor-centric. Alright. Thank you for that indulgence, Curtis. You were just you were just talking about We’re talking about taxi medallions. Extreme loss of value because of Yeah, the news. You know, there’s the sharing and gig economy. Yes. Look, I think that the thing that people are finding here is that no matter how big you are, no matter how great you once were, people are big. Even big companies, especially the big companies, are becoming irrelevant in the face of somebody else coming in and better meeting customer needs. And that’s. And that’s just that’s kind of a mantra. Now of if you don’t understand your customers Ah, and and your donor’s well, what makes them passionate? Then somebody else is going to tap into that passion and then leave you behind. You know, we all run the risk of irrelevance every day, and it’s accelerating because the barriers to entry are so low. It’s so easy for somebody to reach our donors now that I think that there’s there’s a real, a real risk of of non-profits becoming irrelevant if they’re not really, really care, keyed into and attuned to the donors needs and and the passions and and their expectations do this comparison form you have. Ah, really, Ah, lot of very interesting numbers. One I wantto Ah, highlight is, um, the comparison of the donor retention in non-profits with what the private sector small companies consider acceptable retention rates. Compare those two for me. Yeah, absolutely. So this is. This is kind of the leaky bucket syndrome here. According to last year’s study in the Fund-raising Effects treyz project, there’s overall. Across the industry, the overall donor attention is about forty five and a half percent, um, for the key donors that have been donating Ah year over year, that number is about sixty to seventy percent. Um, the acceptable private sector small company retention rate is about ninety three to ninety five percent, so there is a huge gap. You know, there’s a fifty percent gap here in between what we are experiencing in the nonprofit sector versus what is deemed acceptable, turn or eternal in the in the commercial sector. And and that makes it really, really hard for us to ah, for us to actually grow if we’re losing that many out out the back door. That overall retention number is just incredible to me, where the overall number of the forty five and a half percent we’re losing more than we’re keeping. Absolutely. Yeah, I understand. For major donors, it’s different. It’s it’s more like sixty seventy percent for higher level donors. But but that overall rate just just floors me and we have talked about this. I’ve had many guests on Latto, not China trying to overcome this, you know, with strategies. But no one has come with the corporate strategies that that you employ. And then again, major brands like JetBlue etcetera. Yeah, okay, what’s one more real quick point on this okay that I like due to just bring it home here is that is Let’s turn this into Let’s turn this into a practical reality here. So in order for us, if we’re dealing with a forty five and a half percent overall retention Um So what that means is that in order to grow by one customer, you have tow land fifty six new customers every year. We’re in order to road to go to grow by one. What, like go buy one year over year, you have tohave fifty six new ones. Yeah, but in order to have a net growth of one new customer, you’re over a year, you have to land fifty six in order to in order to grow in order, Teo, in order to get it up with one more costume this year than you had last year. Similarly, you know, if if the average donation is about forty forty dollars to grow by a dollar, you need to add two thousand four hundred twenty one dollars to have a net growth of one dollar every year. And so what that means is that we’re the non-profits here are just working simply working too hard just to stay afloat because they’re losing their leaking so much out of out of the bucket or losing too many people out the back door. Okay, you’ve got you’re donor-centric city strategy, which has four prongs to it. Why don’t you? You preview those, and then we’re going to go into detail on each one? Sure, absolutely. So there’s I think that there’s there’s four different things that that really need to be. That non-profits really need to focus on one of them is that Dahna retention is acknowledging and convincing everybody in the in the leadership, the donor retention is the easiest way to protect and grow revenue, you know? And then the second one here is Donorsearch. Imitation is absolutely critical to prioritize our investments in in our in our business. And then the third one here is donorsearch I Gration is the way that we grow profits, and we can talk about what, what exactly that means. And then, finally, the donor engagement is what absolutely drives the the fundamental and powerful results that we all want to show you. Okay? And I said, set them up. We were already into donorsearch tension, of course. Yep, you have again another interesting number that a two percent increase in retention will yield a ten percent decreasing costs. Is that because of the cast? Is that because of the cost of acquisition, right, that’s that’s absolutely the case. Okay, what we see here, there were some studies that were done, Ah, over the last the last number of years here where they where they found that if we a two percent gain in retention is the same as decreasing our costs by as much as ten percent. So a ten percent haircut across the board can be alleviated by just, ah to gain in retention. And why is that? It’s theirs. There’s a There’s a couple of things. It’s far, far less expensive to retain an existing customer than it is to gather to get a new one, right? We know that, and you know it’s anywhere from, you know, to seventeen percent Mohr. Ah, more expensive to acquire to acquire new ones. And the existing customers are are eighty percent more likely to buy again. Ah, because after they’ve already crossed that first hurdle. And so the donors, it’s exactly the same thing. They don’t if they’ve donated in the past there far, far more likely to donate again. But we’re not leveraging them as well as we could. Yes. Okay. Okay. So let’s let’s get smarter about leveraging them. Let’s go to segmentation where this is something we’ve had other guests talk about, too. But you have a little different spin on it. What? Explain it, please. Yeah, Yeah. So one of the things that I like to show on in a presentation here is a collection of of ten men, all in the same suit. Some of them are tall, Some are short, some of her heavy set, some of her extraordinarily slender. And the suit on ly fits one person perfectly well, but it really doesn’t fit anybody else. And so you know the point that that that this makes here is that not all of our customers are created equally, and it’s astronomically expensive for a clothier to tailor the suit. Absolutely everyone. And as much as we’d like to give everyone the perfect fitting suit, we have to be more selective. And so what that means is that we have to be more selective in who we choose to choose to serve, we may be able to create a suit that fits instead of ten people. Maybe it Maybe it fits five, and with a little tiny bit of tailoring, we can make it work for this group of five. But it would be astronomically expensive Teo to address the other, the other five. So the private companies come. Private sector companies have become very selective through this notion of segmentation, which is a division into discrete customer groups that share similar characteristics and and by aligning our, um ah ourselves around this notion of ah segmentation and allows us to do four things really well. It allows us to align people, align our purpose, a mission and values with those people that truly value those things. It allows us to be laser focused on this smaller group of people and figure out what air their unmet needs. And how can we deliver those needs that air more useful toe to this narrowly narrow group rather than a scattershot trying to be all things to all people? It allows us to with a segmentation. It allows us to get greater value from so from high profit individuals and lower profit individuals. And then it allows us if we do it right. You know, the best companies go beyond just segmenting according to how much money are they giving us? But they focus on need and behavior and and the potential to give us more money to donate more money or two participate with us in more ways. And so So the segmentation gives us a ah ah. Lot more room in which we can operate because we’re serving a smaller audience. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And now, part of what you say in segmentation and it’s it’s it’s absorbed in what? In what you just said, just one make explicit is that, you know, if if we’re gonna love all our donors, we have to love some more because it just can’t be. It can’t be equivalent across. And that’s what you’re That’s what your ten guys in suits. Of course it could be. You know, maybe I should mix out. Maybe should have also beside that ten women in dresses that are only ill fitting that are ill fitting nine, But absolutely Okay. Okay, so But what that means then under buy-in intended. Okay, I understand, but So what that means is, you know, in an impact. I’m thinking, you know, as the guy who doesn’t fly very much me, You know, I’m the one who never gets the upgrade. You know, I have a hotel brand Marriott. I’m very loyal to them, so they take care of me. But if I stay at a Hilton, I don’t get, you know, I don’t get the upgrades. So what you did say, though, that you did mention people at the bottom or the smaller donors there’s there is something for them to so make me make me feel good about this segmentation process. Yeah, You know, this this is this is one of the hardest challenges with with tearing and with segmentation and tearing is that everybody wants to be Ah wants to treat all of our customers equal and and as much as we would love to, we just simply can’t There are not enough resource is there’s not enough people in our organization. There’s not enough money in our organization to treat everybody the same. And so we have to be precisely because we love our customers. We actually have to treat them differently. We have to love some of them Mohr and and the the The reason for this is that loving some of them Mohr enables us to fulfill our mission. It remains it enables us to remain a going concern. We have to focus on those we absolutely cannot afford to lose. So ah, great example of this is the oxygen masks that come down in the what in the or the or that are talked about coming down in the onboarding airline instruction. Even though a lesson even those of us in coach economy. We still get Air Basques, you know, waiting for the time you’ve got to put a quarter in to get the oxygen mask. It’s kind of like putting the quarter in to use the restroom, right? For all of you know, for all the change. I can’t. I mean, I hope they take cards. When that happens, I think I can swipe and then I get the oxygen drop down. Okay. Yeah. So? So the notion here is that they want you to make sure that you take care of the less advantaged First, you know, the children, the elderly, whatever the infirm, so so that you can you want to make sure that they take? I’m sorry. You gotta take care of things here. Yeah, yeah. Good care of yourself first, because you’re no good to anybody next to you if you’ve gone loopy or if you passed out because the time of useful consciousness here on the airplane, if they in a case of rapid depressurization is thirty to sixty seconds or less, you know, fifteen seconds. And so you have to take care of yourself first so that you can take care of others. And so when you come back to ah, looking at our donors in order to keep serving all of our customers, we have to be able to take care of of some of our best customers first, because they keep, they pay the bills, they keep the lights on and enable us to do to serve some of our other customers or donors that may not be paying quite as much. Um, you know, there’s a there’s a great ah, great example of ah, large non-profit here. Who? Who said that every month there’s a there’s a sweet little lady that’s writing out a check for a dollar. Fifty a check for a dollar fifty, and and we’d love her to death. But it actually cost us more to process that. Then the cheque is worth. And so we lover, We want her to continue because it feels good for her, and we love her attitude, inner spirit. But we also need to focus on those on those donors that are going to keep the light on. And when we do that, That gives us the opportunity to create initiatives to create value that trickles down through the organization and that everybody benefits and also subsidizes the processing of that dollar fifty check and the and the acknowledgement letter that goes out to her right. So it enables us another worst thing would be to, say, return that cheque and say, I’m sorry, we don’t want your money. I mean, that would be that would be devastating to that that sweet old woman or two. Not more traumatic or to not acknowledge it, because you just never know if that dollar fifty year donor on that’s a really extreme example. I’ve never really even seen e-giving that small, but but I’ve seen certainly lots of ten and fifteen dollars year donors and they can become your your plan gift donor zoho be the person who dies. You don’t know it because you’re not close to them. You’ve been acknowledging they’re they’re very small gifts, but you don’t know that they died until you get a notice of probate and you find out that there in your will and you have your residual beneficiary. And it’s a very it’s a five million dollar estate. There’s some small, outright bequest to some distant cousins, and you’ve got fifty percent of the residual that’s left. That is not that uncommon you. So just as coming strictly from you come from the corporate side, and I know that you’re not saying, Ignore those people who give ten dollars a year. But you have to treat them differently and not as can’t spend as much time with them as you do the higher level names. I understand that. But I would never say Don’t acknowledge that even dollar and a half a year donor-centric Q. Because you just never know what else might be there. Okay, Just shout out from the from the from the fund-raising side. But you’re not. Not that you’re antithetical to fund-raising I’m not suggesting that at all. Just just bringing in the plant e-giving side. That’s all. Okay, um, we just have about, like, two minutes before a break. Give me a couple of strategies for how we can show that love. On any level. Any level. Yeah, yeah. One of the things that that’s that’s really fascinating here. Problem. Before we dive into that question, here is its figure. Who are your best customers? Your best donors. You know, we look att att these folks by how much money that they’re giving. We also need an add add another dimension of that which is how passionate are they buy-in about your cause. They may not be giving you the most money, but they may be absolutely one hundred percent passionate. And those air really useful to Corral and Teo to invite into the tent, if you will, so that you can invite them to help you invite them to participate in AA in a bunch of your activities. Because they may not be able to give you give you a lot of money. They may be able to give you connections and time and and introductions that could be hugely valuable to you. Okay, we’re going to take this break, and then when we come back, I’m goingto ask Curtis How you how you start to How do you identify those? Those critical to keep donors. When you see piela, they’re kicking off a remote non-profit roundtable Siri’s each quarter a Wagner CPAs C P a bona fide will cover a topic that they know intimately, and you need to know basic understanding. Last week was revenue recognition for grants and contracts. You can watch that archive video at weger cps dot com. Click Resource is then seminars. Now time for Tony’s. Take two. You want to be a non-profit radio insider? It’s time. Why is that exclusive content NUFER The New Year I’m kicking off expanded guest interviews that are exclusively for non-profit radio insiders. Each week, I’m going to go deeper into a topic with the guest. We’re going to do this with Curtis when when the show is over or cover something that we didn’t talk about on the show Curtis and I are going to talk about is he’s got an exercise that we’re going to talk about in the insider video. Now that sounds like something that would be behind a Paywall. And for many podcasters. Maybe it is, but not this one. There’s no pay. Absolutely not so But I do ask you to do is be an insider. I want you to get the weekly insider alerts, and the way to do that is go to tony martignetti dot com and click the Insider alerts button. That’s it. That’s the way to gain your access to exclusive these private five minute videos that are going to be producing for insiders. Now let’s get back to Curtis Bingham and Donor-centric Donor-centric City. All right, Curtis. How do we identify those who are critical to keep? I think it begins with, like, Like I said, obviously we’re looking at some of the metric we may be looking at segmenting our donor’s based on, you know, dollar contribution, recency frequency, volume, whatever that those air traditional metrics here, but there’s there’s a there’s a different, um, different scale toe. Add to the mix here, and that is, you know, passionate. How passionate are they about your about your mission? Are they donating to you because they because it’s mandated by the company, are they? Or do they have a loved one that is, you know, that may have been suffering from cancer or leukemia o. R. Or whatever it is, you know. Are they passionate because they have a family involved in, uh, in the in the benefits that directly benefits from the from the charity? So, you know, it’s it’s really there’s There’s any number of ways in which we in which you could assess that passion, whether it’s through surveys or direct contact or or you know, our Albert calls or, you know, executive executive meetings, whatever the cases. But looking at, they’re at their passion and figure out who are the most passionate. Ah, even though they may not be giving the largest amount of money. And then you look at at a slice at one Mohr way here and that’s looking at Where are they donating? Are they donating, you know, dollar to you in a dollar to somebody else and a dollar to somebody down there down the road more? Are they donating everything, all of their discretionary income to you? And so if you put those on a on A on a force where four square box with passionate about your mission over the top and dedicated donations over to the right, the most valuable people are those people. The most valuable customers or our donors are those that are absolutely passionate about your mission, and they don’t get it. They don’t donate. They don’t spread around their donations. They are donating everything that they have over to, Ah, over to you. And that’s that’s this notion of share of wallet What percentage of a customer spending our donors donations is captured by your brand or your or your firm. And so it’s really valuable. Lot of the best private sector companies here. Commercial sector companies here are really starting to do this segmentation by share of wallet because it shows some very fascinating things, and it uncovers people who are really valuable to your company that that may not have shown up and just be in just sheer dollar volume contributed. And this this wallet share gives us a really fascinating way of looking at our at our donors and figuring out which ones we need to keep, which ones we need to grow and which ones just really. There’s too much competition. Let them go, too, to somebody else. Tio. Thank them for whatever donations that they’re doing. But don’t spend an inordinate amount of money trying to convince them to donate more because they never will. How our company’s measuring share of wallet How are they learning that it’s there’s a There’s a really interesting way of ah, of measuring it. You know, there’s a number of really different, really complex calculations that some of the big companies are doing. But there was a really fascinating article that came out was published in The Wall Street Journal in I’m Sorry, the Harvard Business Review Rather in two thousand eleven, and it talks about the wall allocation rule and I’m happy to send. Send people a link to that if they if they’re interested in receiving this and walking through it. But it was based on a study of one hundred seventy thousand customers over two years, and they found that the share of wallet was very highly correlated with actual purchases in A in a commercial sector. And what they found was that they went just really briefly. What they did was they looked at for each brand or each non-profit what are the the the relevant, the perfectly relevant competing brands that people are choosing to donate metoo and then you, you do a survey. You Ah, you. You call them up, whatever. And you get them to measure to describe how much they are contributing to each of these different different non-profit organizations, and then you convert that into a rank, and the computation is very is very straightforward. And so you get you, you, Khun marry that with a kind of an estimated money that they’re giving to competing brands. And you can. You can calculate the share of wallet, and it’s a fantastically easy back of the envelope. Method for calculating share of wallet And it gives you workable information that you Khun then used in in prioritizing your spending to Trier to acquire and retain some of these donors. That just it just makes a lot of sense to me that the ones you wantto focus on the most are those that are giving you the largest share of their disposable income. Or maybe maybe it was their charitable dollars. Maybe have to narrow it down to that. All right. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I’m okay. I want to make sure we get everything there’s. So let’s move to migration. Getting getting people, getting people, getting people more Mohr. Well, moving them over, moving them over to the today, I think, to the right of that quadrant that you described and and ultimately to the to the to the upper to the upper right. Yeah, the the this this is fascinating because, you know, like you said, the big question is how do we migrate them from one bucket to the to the other? How do we make them more passionate about our cause? How do we get a larger share of wallet? And and this actually came out of some work that Hillary noon and of who is now a pursuant. Ah, and I worked on a number of years ago. She when she was American Cancer Society and she was really interested in How do you retain and activate donors and volunteers and at the time and still is to some extent, loyalty was all the rage, but but But it didn’t really tell us anything. Um, you know, Net promoter score. A lot of people are using this net promoter score, which is your willingness to recommend a brand Teo somebody else. It didn’t really tell us anything because it measures some intense take future action. And, you know, St Jude’s was a great example here. Were with their net promoter scored. Nobody will give anything but a ten. Everybody gives them attend because even though a service interaction might have been miserable, If you give anything less than a ten, it’s a knock against the kids, and you just simply don’t know the kid. So we interviewed a number of CCO Council members, and we found that NPS, the Net promoter score, doesn’t actually measure behavior. But engagement does. And so this this notion of of customer engagement was was built up here, and we found that it. Actually, if we the more we engage your customers, the more likely they are to collaborate with us, advocate with us and and and donate money to us. And so So this notion here is, um, you know, customer engagement here is we defined. I define it as the extent of a customer’s willingness to invest his or her discretionary time with a company for mutual benefit. So how willing if a company of if a person is really engaged, they’re willing to help you do things, they’re willing to collaborate with you. They’re willing to participate in your activities to help with fund-raising. They’re willing to make introductions. They’re willing to do things on your behalf, and then how do we measure it? It’s the measurement is the sum of all of the activities that build a positive, positive emotional attachment between a company and and customers, and that results in greater involvement, greater advocacy and greater revenue and profit. And so, you know, there’s a There’s a couple of things that that people have done to engage. Engage your customers. So so you have to have the basic blocking and tackling, right? You can’t. You can’t be treating customers poorly. But once you’ve got the basic blocking tackling right, then you can start engaging in them. How can you get them to collaborate with you? What can you do to actually, What can you ask them to do to help you with? If they help you, they arm or invested in your success. So are we talking? Are we talking about small things? Like just sign a petition, call a congressman? Things like things like that to start. Yes. And Mohr OK, I think that getting them to do something for you creates this. This need for reciprocity. Um, they the more that you can get them to do for you, the more inclined they are to, um you want to support you. And so when When? When we were together. Ah, A little bit ago at at pursuance conference, I talked to a number of the non-profits that were there, and and there was a couple of really great examples. I mean, one of them, there was one non-profit there who would have you received a call from someone after a podcast saying, Hey, the noise quality on your podcast has really deteriorated. I’m a sound engineer. It’s really bothering me. Can I come and help you fix the problem? And so they said, Well, of course. And they came in. The gentleman came in spend a day crawling underneath all of the cabinets and countertops and fixed, replaced a bunch of replaced on board some wires and and electronics and solve the problem for them. And that’s something that they didn’t have the capability of doing. Now you look at this on the another dream there is another. There was another non-profit there that I could hold on. You hold that example because I gotta take a break. But before, I don’t want to make explicit that thie podcast The person was complaining The sound of was not twenty. Martignetti non-profit radio that was some non-profit had not, Not not non-profit. Okay, tell us, can you use more money? Do you need an additional revenue source? You want to diversify revenue, you get a long stream of passive revenue. When companies you refer to tell us process their credit card transactions through Tello’s, you watch the video and then send potential companies that you could refer to watch that same video You get the long stream the fifty percent of the fee for each transaction that Tello’s processes. And that adds up the video. Is that tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s We got to do the live listener love. And there is ah lot Tampa, Florida Adelanto, California Wilmington, Wilmington, North Carolina, Brooklyn, New York, New York, New York, Northvale, New Jersey Very close to where I grew up in old Japan. Live love to each of those cities. Wilmington special shout out to you, of course, North Carolina. But the love is see that I can’t do it. Equal, limited, egalitarian Lee. Equally, Curtis has a word. Equanimity, equanimity, But Quinn Emelius Lee, because I just, you know, I live in North Carolina, so that’s there in the like that in the upper quad to the upper right quadrant. But then the live love goes out to everybody else, too. From Adelanto, California to Tampa, Florida and Brooklyn, New York and New York, New York. All right, let’s go abroad to ah, wow! Taipei, Taiwan and Beijing China Knee How Teo to our listeners, they’re Islamabad, Pakistan, Seoul, South Korea. On your haserot comes a ham Nida in Savi, Edo, Japan. Konnichi Wa, Hanoi, Vietnam. Tehran, Iran. Sudan is with us. I don’t believe we’ve had to. Sudan Listener Live love to each of those live listeners in who are abroad and the podcast pleasantries, the vast majority of our audience over thirteen thousand listeners each week. The podcast listeners pleasantries to you. I am grateful and thankful that you are with us week after week after week after week. You’re sticking with us because it’s great value. I mean, there’s like there’s about your questioning. I’m just, ah, having some fun pleasantries to the podcast audience right now. Back to Curtis Bingham. Who, Curtis. You have another example of a non-profit engagement and migration? Yeah, there was there was one person there at the at the event. There was one non-profit here that that there ah, there are a number of their large donors were brought in to help them create a donor survey program. There was another one that had a fantastic example where they brought in a number of employees from Amazon to take a tour of their of their warehouse facility and the Amazon employees. They asked the vast Amazon if they had any advice for them in how to improve their logistics. And Amazon brought in a team of their own warehouse logistics managers and in a couple of days just completely redesigned their their warehouse, using all of the best practices that Amazon has developed over over the years. You know, another great example is that there is one one non-profit has a number of technology corporate partners, and they were able to go to them and say, What is the bait? The best online HR system that you have found and and they had intended to spend. I’m doing some research on this, and the company came back said, Look, we’ve already done The research here is the best one. We’ll even help you implement it. And so, you know, the real question for you is you’re trying to engage your donors is to think about what can you ask them to do for you? How can you help in engage them in helping you fulfill your mission? You know it can be small, like fixing the fixing some of the audio on your podcast. It can be large to helping implement a large AARP system or revamping your warehouse logistics. But the thing is, how can you ask people to help? And one of things that I think people are afraid to do is ask people for help. They’re getting really good at asking people to donate, but they’re afraid of asking people for help. And yet, asking people to help you is allows them to go beyond just kind of a passive donate donate or to someone who’s actively engaged when they’re actively engaged in collaborating with you. They’re more likely to advocate for you. And then it’s not just about telling them, Go talk, go tell your friends and family or bring them to some sort of a you know, Black Tie fund-raising event. It’s here, introduced me to these people or talk to the CEO of this company here. That’s that’s possibly that’s considering making our charity a corporate, you know, a corporate sponsorship. And so, so once they are more eager to collaborate with you, they’re Mohr eager to ah, to be very vocal and advocate for you. And that’s when they start changing their behaviour and donating Mohr and staying longer, donating and advocating. As you said Now, Tio, know what people want to be engaged in where their interests lie. You need to be listening. And you you mentioned possibly surveying for for for for those high level, most engaged owners, the ones in the upper right quadrant that maybe personal meetings, personal face-to-face meetings where you’re finding out what it is that moves the person. Is that Is that your research? Is that your advocacy is that your your program for survivors of domestic abuse? Is that your mental health work? You know What is it that moves them that then you can engage them. You know, appropriately, with opportunities that at least are, you know, we’re going to appeal. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, this is This is it’s very, very easy to do. There’s a There was an article that was published in the Harvard Business Review just this month that talks about how easy it is to figure out why customers buy from you. Um, and in ten twelve interviews, you confined out the five six reasons why customers buy from you, Ah, and and be able to articulate them better than anybody inside your company ever could. And the same thing could apply here in five or six interviews ten interviews with with some of your most valuable donors. You could find out the hot buttons that you need to start pushing in all of your marketing communications in all of your your your your donor meetings of the hot button that you push on social media in your advertisements. And when. Once you know those hot buttons because you’ve listened to them, you heard it directly from them. You’re far more likely to capture those passion and bring those. Bring them in. You’ve twice. Now you’ve mentioned Harvard Business Review. I have to stop reading U S. A. Today. I think I need to step up. I’ll step up my another another mix. OK. All right. Yes. Diversify. Diversify. Okay, um, so have we. You feel like I mean, just for the hour. We have to wait before I get that. Where’s your book? How come I can’t referred listeners to a book that you’ve written that that covers all this? I’ve been threatening to write a book forever, and and I I acknowledge that I have been remiss in working on too many things. That’s the problem that I have is that I have too many great ideas and and not enough. Not enough assistance, I think, Teo, capture them all and and take advantage of all of the brilliant ideas that are on the cutting room floor. Yeah, no kidding. My God, man, I break last break. Hoexter give. Can you use more money? Another revenue source down. He’s a second way Mentioned one before. You know the way of diversifying mobile e-giving you can learn about it with text to gives very simple five part email, Many course over five days. One e mail a day. You’re only five emails away from raising money through mobile giving. Or at least learning more about it. Lots of misconceptions. Um, so to start the many course, where do you go? You What do you do? You text n pr. November, Papa. Romeo. Two, four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. All right, we’ve got several more minutes before we hit the rap with with Donor-centric and Curtis. OK, All right. So I’ve admonished you about the book. I’m sure I’m not the first person to tell you earlier, monisha if you had one, I would be telling listeners, they gotta buy it. All right. So have we covered migration and engagement satisfactorily? Anything more you want to say about those? Yeah, really, really quick. There’s a couple of things that, um that you can weaken look at in in collaboration and advocacy. So, you know, I have some more resource is if anybody’s interested that talk about some of the ways in which you can collaborate, you really quickly you can get feedback from them. You know, whether it’s advisory board, focus group, you can involve Minya strategic planning process, cubine involvement, innovation activities or excess. Ours is you can enlist their services to help mutually support other other other donors, other customers, other volunteers, you know, participate in in in a lot of your your fund-raising activities and make introductions and so on advocacy, you know, you could use them in your used them in marketing, put put together the stories of why people are donating and, uh, and put him in your marketing. Um, let them generate help generate your marketing. MetLife did a great job of this a little while back where they put together a, They asked some of their their customers to write a letter to the to a family member, describing why it’s so important for everybody to have life insurance. Why, it’s so important for this family member to have life insurance, and they didn’t actually end up running the ads with them. But they got really rich information as to how people view this. This tired old thing called life. And so, you know, how can you use them to help you win your promotions and your marketing? You know what kind of doors, Khun? They open for you. What? How can they help you on social media? What can they do, Teo? Generate content and ideas and donation opportunities for you. So a lot of different ways in which you can get them. You can collaborate and advocate. Okay, Awesome. We still have several minutes left together. So what? What? Have I not asked you satisfactorily that waken going tomb or or something we haven’t covered? What? We still got time left. I think I think you’ve covered. Covered most everything here. I think that you’re kind of the the things to the takeaways here. Is that as much as as sexy as it is to continue focusing on bringing in new new donors every year. You really, really have to start focusing on retaining the year exists thing stopping that revolving door, um, and and we need to figure out how to keep our top tier donors. You know, we one of the things that that we looked at here is, you know, kind of in the share of wallet we talked about, talked a little bit earlier about, you know, segmenting the customers by share of wallets. And there’s a group of customers that you need to focus to focus on retaining. You know, just don’t do anything wrong. They’ll stay with you forever because they have a very high share of wallets. There’s a there’s a group that you have to focus to protect, to make sure that other nonprofit organizations don’t get in there and and lead them away. And then there’s a group that you should that you need to focus on growing because they have, ah, high potential share of wallet. But there’s there’s also this this notion here that, you know, there’s there’s There’s a big thing that people do in the non-profit, which is to share their donor lists. And for these, these categories of customers here, the segments of customers that you’re focusing on retaining and protecting and growing man for the love of God. Don’t share those names on that list. Oh, my God. What? Anybody hearing that you’re destroying that share of wallet? Yeah. Lower tiers. Oh, my God. Sure. Away. Yeah. Yeah. But don’t share these names here because because you want to capture more sure of wallet. You don’t want to incite them. Or in our invite them, too, to go back and and disperse their payments because everybody deserves something. Yeah. Now that well in the sharing of lists also has privacy concerns around it. You know, I don’t know that that seems like a risky that’s that just that sharing of any of any names like that. That sounds like a a risky proposition if if a donor figures that out even even even a low level donor-centric fied, they’ll tell ten people hyre. Right. All right, all right. Cars were going, Tio. We’re gonna leave it there. And so you you offered lots of resource is so I will remind people that they can get you. Ah, Twitter at Curtis Bingham for additional resource is because the man hasn’t written a book. I don’t know. I’m surprised I even had you on No I want to thank you very much. Thank you so much for sharing great ideas. Thank you. Thank you. Been delightful. And for insiders that the additional content is going to be an engagement exercise, Curtis and I are going to share with you next week. Courageous communication with Mary and er sh If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing Curtis gave them a very good shot out. All technology enabled. Data driven. Absolutely. Bye weinger SEPA is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weinger cps dot com By Telus Credit Card and Payment Processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Our Creative Producers Clan miree Off Sam Leibowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York They’re with me next week for Non-profit Radio Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Duitz. Metoo. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get you thinking. Cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative now, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi. I’m nor in Santa potentially eight. Tune in every Tuesday at nine. To ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Yawned Potential live life your way on talk radio dot N y c. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. You like comic books and movie howbout TV and pop culture. Then you’ve come to the right place. Hi, I’m Michael Gulch, a host of Secrets of the Sire, joined every week by my co host, Hassan, Lord of the Radio Godwin. Together we have over fifteen years experience creating graphic novels, screenplays and more. Join us as we bring you the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. Wednesday nights eight p. M. Eastern Talk radio dot and lives. Thie. Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. 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Nonprofit Radio for March 23, 2018: The Donor Journey

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My Guest:

Taylor Shanklin: The Donor Journey

Intentional. Personal. Relational. Thoughtful. These are touchpoints you want your donors to feel as they move through their relationship with your organization. Taylor Shanklin from Pursuant shepherds you through the journey planning.

 

 

 

 


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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into sir some virgins if i saw that you missed today’s show the donor journey intentional personal relation alot thoughtful the’s, air touchpoint you want your donors to feel as they moved through their relationship with your organization? Taylor shanklin from pursuant shepherds you through the journey planning i’m tony steak too the funder relationship video director’s cut. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing to radio by wagner. See piela is guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps, dot com and by tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tell us, very pleased to welcome taylor shanklin to the show. She is vice president of product marketing and strategy at pursuant you know them, a full service fund-raising agency helping non-profits go beyond the ordinary to reach their goals. She has over decades spent serving non-profits her passion and purpose or to help charitable organizations connect the dots between marketing technology. And fund-raising she’s at t shank cycles and the company is that tony dahna slash pursuant radio. Welcome to l a shanklin. Hey, tony how’s it going very good. Well, you’re super loud. Excellent. Your your sound good. You sound loud and clear. Wonderful. E it down a little. Okay. That’s okay, what’s ah, yeah, i know you’re okay. You’re okay, we can go. We can always turn it down here. Don’t worry about that. Easier to turn it down and turn you up. What’s this t shank cycles. What is what is what? How are you involved in cycling? Well, that’s actually a great question. So i would say it is a twitter handle that i came up with back when twitter was newer and have a past experience of doing a lot of cycling that get out on the bike too much right now. But so i am glad you asked, because when i got involved in working with non-profits in my professional life, i also started getting involved and fund-raising and doing events fund-raising in my personal life and i did a lot of events with the a team in training program with leukemia, lymphoma society and so i created that name when i was doing a ton of cycling, getting out there and doing the hundred, you know, my old bike rides and was started to kind of tell my story from the road, ok, ok, i see i mean, you could have been doing no power cycling now in a studio in a competitive, you know, with the board up on the board up front and everybody knows where they stand, you know, what’s that power cycling is itjust power cycling way might have been doing that thing that you yeah, you have two children, so the priorities change, i understand, okay? You’ll get back to it’s a life it’s a life practice, it’s a life practice totally and like, we’ll be back, right? Like i actually really could go to the studio like mine and more yet, it’s a timing them. I’ve got a seven year old and a five year old and getting out for two three hour bike rises, just dip it in the gym. I’ve heard rumors to that effect from friends who have children. I do not. So i’ve heard those. I’ve heard those stories. Yes, we’re talking, we’re talking. About we’re talking about the donor journey this donorsearch durney where does this journey begin? And where does it end? Okay, you know, i think i would say that it never really ends, you know, and we can get into that. I mean, i think it begins at the, you know, first interaction that someone has with a new organization, okay? And i think that yeah, and talk about it because it is a journey, and we should be thinking about it, there’s a journey? Oh, yeah, we’re going to spend the hour we’re gonna spend here. We’re thinking about it. Yeah, you know, i wouldn’t even say it would it would. It would be a mistake to say that it ends even with a person’s planned gift because i mean, i do i do plan e-giving fund-raising and that’s just the beginning of a relationship with at that stage, you know, there’s continued vast engagement after someone makes ah ah gift in there a state plan and tells us about it, you know, by no means we say, ok, thanks you, you’re you’re dead to us now, you know, it wouldn’t know i don’t even intend that pun, but you know, no, eso it really just it ends when i would say maybe it ends when the person says, i don’t hear from you anymore, but hopefully that never you know, somebody is that overt and explicit about, you know, i’ve moved on. I don’t need you. I don’t know, but that rarely that happens. But it’s rare it’s rare. So yes, yes. No, i think that’s a great point about about plan giving on the work you do around that that’s. True. Because then that’s an opportunity to continue the relationship with the family members. Oh, yeah. Absolutely deepened. Yeah. Keeping and expand. Yes. I mean that you think about a planned gift. I mean, that you’re putting someone you’re putting an organization alongside your spouse, your children, your grandchildren in your will. And of course, there’s. Lots of other plan gives beyond that. But just the simplest example. I mean, imagine how much they love your work and the people doing it to put you alongside spouse and children, right? So that’s a that’s, a that’s, a deep commitment and that’s just, you know, and but by no means the end. Okay, so what? We’re starting you know we’re starting, we’re talking before that, um, you’re concerned that this is too transactional. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, i mean, i think that there is so much focus and something that my team and i are here talk about a lot of there’s so much focus on acquisition, right on getting getting those transactions through the door and not enough focus on the retention, the stewardship and really ultimately, the overall donor experience to keep people coming back. You know, i think that i don’t know why this is, you know, maybe this is culture or, you know, focused people wearing a lot of hats, trying to do a lot of things focusing on let’s we’ve got to get new donors, and we’ve got to get these orders, and but the cost to get a new donor is greater than the cost to keep someone who’s already a fan of yours right now. So i think that we really need to be focused on how do we drive that attention? How do we focus on building relationships, you know, taking it from transaction to transformational? We’ve had many guests say exactly that about retention versus acquisition it’s so much cheaper, too, to keep the donors you have and treat them well so that they do stay than it is to acquire a new donor. Yeah, so that’s, not new to non-profit radio listeners. What what is new is how were going toe make that all make that happen so that, you know, so you have. So you have this excellent paper demystifying the donor journey, and we have about a minute and a half before our first break. But i want to read one of the pull quotes from that paper. It’s an undeniable fact. The donor experience and how we steward them is directly tied to retention in a major and impactful way. And retention is the key to building a long term, sustainable fund-raising program. You want to flush that out a little bit in, like a minute or so. Yeah. I mean, i think it’s you know, just the idea that you have tio speak to people where they are. You have to speak to people in a way that resonates to how they are connected to why they gave you in the first place round. And we can get into this more after the break. But i like to look at what i think so often we get so stuck in our sector and what our sectors doing. But look at the brands, the products you buy, the brands that you buy and with the ones that you keep using over and over again and think about why that is and what value it brings to you so i could get, um, you know, we can tap into that a little bit of well, i agree. I think there are a lot of lessons from the commercial side. Let’s, take this thing this first break. It’s pursuing their newest paper is demystifying the donor journey. Does that sound vaguely familiar to you? Because you’re listening to taylor and we talk about it right now so you don’t need it. But you have a friend. You have a friend. Who is less fortunate than you? Because they don’t listen to non-profit radio. You need to bring them in. Send them to tony dot m a slash pursuant radio. So they get the paper demystifying the donor journey. Then send them here to today’s show for all the more rich detail, the mystifying the donor journey. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio now, let’s, go back to the donor. Durney okay, tell her, let’s go where? Ah, you were suggesting, um, you know, we do. You know, wei have these commercial brands that means so much to us that we’re willing to accept their emails sometimes multiple times a day. We may even be willing to take their text messages. Um, you know, we don’t mind the contact we’ve asked for it. We’ve consented, of course, and we welcome it. So what can we learn from that side? The commercial side, teo import over to the non-profit side. Yeah. So i think there’s a lot. I think about you, like some of the brands. I ii go back, teo. And i’ll just, like admit my terrible coffee addiction right now get another way. But i think like, this is a good example. So i’m going to talk about starving, and i’m sure a lot of people talk about sarah back since the big company and okay, well, how do i how do i think about my non-profit like stuck, right? But here’s an example of, like, started recently, i’ve been going there for years. I worked there in college is a barista like, um, i’m pretty loyal also, you were employees? Yes, yeah, and so i started using the app really, you know, regularly to pay teo, even like order as i’m driving over there and teo kind of interact with how i want to purchase my starbucks in the morning, right? And i think there’s some interesting things that they do design that i’ve noticed and thought about, like this kind of keeps me coming back, it makes it easy, they keep rewarding me around areas where i want to be rewarded. And so i think a couple of interesting examples from that is like i get, you know, these, you know, they do these bonus star things or, like, hey, common in the next three days in order, a lot a or a breakfast sandwich and if you do it three times in the next five days, we will give you one hundred fifty bonus, right, which gets you like free drinks and stuff and what i’ve noticed in talking to other fellow friends who are startup storybooks addicts as well, is we’ve compared like the types of messages we get, i get regularly asked to come back for the things that i regularly by there, and my friend was talking about this recently was like, oh, yeah, i’m always getting, you know, hey, come back in and get a green tea, and i was like, oh, i don’t get that i was with beau car a lot saying so like, okay, they really like they’re taking the data and there, um, using automation, technology, whatever to speak to each of us individually, based on what we order because they know our habits, i think this is really relevant, tio what we dio in the nonprofit sector and thinking about there’s, different reasons and motivations that their donors have for supporting us for volunteering with us for doing on event, right? I did team in training, in part because i was interested in the cycling aspect and also because i had lost friends and relatives latto blood cancer, so there were very distinct connections, and i think we look at the donor experience and retention and stewardship and taking a page from starbucks and other companies that we in iraq every day, a lot of it has to do with really creating those more meaningful touchpoint by just looking at what it is that resonates with each individual person, a part of the problem is that some organizations will look at stewardship and this journey and delivering it as a cost rather than a revenue center. No. Oh, and you bring that out in the paper you wantto explain to us why we should be viewing this not a cz cost, but his revenue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, i do think that that’s the problem is on again. It goes back to the focus on acquisitions, as i think is often looks more at as revenue imbriano and stewardship is oh, yeah, ok ain’t that time for that right now, right? I gotta focus on bringing in new donors because we lost this money, donors or whatever it is. And if we start to realize that again looking back it all the way. Statistics out there say it’s easier to keep the customer than it is to get a new one, it’s cheaper than it is a revenue center, because, again, those are the people that are already in some way connected teo there already bought in at some level, right? Because they’ve already given to you in the past whether that is through a large gift or a ten dollars a day at some point gave to you and so tapping into why they gave to you is going and just communicating to them around that in that way, it’s going to in the long run be cheaper shit happened to again, and because you can do that through, you know, segment e and sending them just write email message, right? So is a revenue center because there’s so much opportunity to just keep those people loyal and coming back, turn them into monthly donors if they were one time donors, and i think if we start looking at it as a revenue center was opposed to cost dinner, that we will start placing the right amount of focus on it and recognizing to the long stream. Of potential revenue. You know, starbucks, amazon land’s end is one that i get a lot. I mean, they they expect to have you for life. Yeah, on and i don’t want to know how much i know. Yeah, that right part of the app is not your aggregate purchases through life that that is really for not caring, that you can’t write. You can’t tap that icon and and be disturbed. No, but you know, these brands and that’s just three examples. I mean, there’s thousands. You know, they want you for life on dh and that’s how, you know, they see it as valuable to keep you versus trying to get somebody new to come in. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, we want to think about this lifetime, you know, i asked you where’s the start, where’s it end. It is hard to identify agreement, you know, maybe it’s, like the first engagement is where it starts. But we want to be looking till still the person dies and then and maybe during their lifetime, like you suggested, we’ve cultivated their family spouse, children, you know, they might be a part of the organization now. So the family relationship might actually live on so, you know, right it’s all its long term, and it is absolutely revenue, and i love that the paper points it out, you know? Yeah, it’s not something to be to be cut, you know, given short shrift, something being what we put into this experience, this donorsearch durney relationship it’s interesting lately, i’ve been getting doing just some, you know, intel on asking friends of mine family, members of mine round former colleagues of mine, like what’s your experience when you donate what’s the follow-up like, you know, trying to get a little bit more of, like, a focus group type of quality of information on this and what’s interesting is that in most of the interviews i’ve been doing with my friends is they get kind of a standard receipt, right? Damn one or two of them, maybe has an exceptional experience that they can point out, but most of them and many of the people i’ve talked to look out, okay, i tried to ask friends who had donated to a least like a future of these per year, and most of the story is i got the standard receiving that. Kind of about it. You know, i just think that we can do a lot better than that. Now pursuing to his donor. Derive a gn up. Sorry, data driven data driven down. What? What data can you share that underlies all this as well? Yeah. I mean so, like you said, we’re data driven. We like teo look at the data to then reveal insights information into again, like i said, what makes that particular donorsearch what makes that particular person wants to be connected to the cause? There’s uninterested in one of my colleagues, was doing a webinar recently and was sharing anything. They’re full of an organization that we worked with that, you know way did some survey analysis on their on their general file went out surveyed and kind of create a point system of how satisfied their donors work and what we found waas a directly in there level of satisfaction with their ultimate lifetime value. So that’s just one example where, like people who, you know, had only one point of satisfaction. They were on the low level of satisfaction. Had a lifetime, you know, value increase that there points increased by like, one. Point there, like time value increased by ninety seven, but those who increase their satisfaction by five points um, their lifetime value increased by just under five dollars. So that’s just one example of looking at the data and then trying to actually start to segment people into different behaviors connections to the cause to try to figure out howto then move them in along the journey without organization. So this is our ally or ally of donorsearch atis faction, i’m just not clear about the the lifetime value, so if you have a five point increase in in donorsearch iss faction so it’s just under five dollars, but you don’t mean just over five dollars, over their whole life as a donor, do you? Yeah, her donor for the year. But what was interesting about it was i mean, this particular organization with large so it ended up being millions of dollars more money. Yeah, okay, because it’s like what can look like small potatoes. And again, i think that goes back to well, it just feels like it shouldn’t be a focus. It feels like it’s small potatoes, but like when you add it up altogether, it actually can be really impactful. Yes. Okay on dh. So that’s the case of a large file, but again, um, my point, you know, even if you if you don’t have dahna size file where five dollar increase is going to be millions of dollars, it’s still going to be a life time it’s an increase in lifetime value for for donors, and you just don’t know how valuable they’re going to become versus losing them and and cutting off all potential life, the remaining value. So, you know, you have to look at it, you know? You have to look at it this way, ok? Example of my personal life, where i’ve seen that worked really well? Is this a cycling example? You trying that want you want to compare my university for my husband? You’ve got in the way that those alumni organisations have stewarded us in very different ways, and he has been stewarded very well. I have not been stuart it well found and you know, what i’ve noticed is let’s look at the good example what i’ve seen them do in their stewardship of him over the years since graduation and the years ago is they? Started out with hey, you know, you know, graduated a couple of years ago if you’re ever and back in the area we’d love to have you come back and talk to class. Sure, you thought about what you’re doing now, that sort of thing, right? Recent graduates so, like, they started kind of pulling him back into the education and then started asking for small gifts, and then he ended up doing, you know, well, in his profession had, you know, kind of a job that many of the other business students would want to have, and as he kind of progress in that way, they progress in their stewardship and how much money they’re asking for it from the right, but they’re also constantly interacting with him in a very personal way. Sending impersonal thank you notes asking him, hey, i’m going to be in austin next month. Do you want to grab coffee and doing that sort of thing and it’s? Not like we’re even giving, like tons and tons of money because we don’t have those in tons of money to give but it’s just been interesting in watching that donorsearch durney of him versus mine. Where i basically just get phone calls at eight. Thirty at night when i have kids brushing their teeth, you know? And no matter how many times i say, please don’t call me at this time, i still continue to get called a time of night, and so i think that’s just a really riel example and my own personal life for i have seen stuart should go wrong, and so it should go well. And i will tell you we donate to his school more than mine. Yeah, okay, yeah, i mean, it’s, a classic mistake is just not listening to your donor’s preferences mean, you’ve you said it, you know, whether you’re donorsearch not, but it sounds like you’re small donor but doesn’t matter listening to the preferences, you know, and respecting them on dh that’s at the heart of what we’re talking about. You know, whether it’s window, i want to be contacted. How do i want to be contacted? You know, you may say text or email me and don’t call what do i want to be contacted for, you know, maybe i like scholarships. Maybe i like student activities. Maybe i you know, it’s unrestricted. Or is devoted to the arts or, you know, whatever. You know, this is the this is the, uh, categories around which weaken, weaken segment and technology enables this. Okay. Pursuing is also technology enabled talk about how the technology is available to do the segmentation we’re talking about and not lose personalization. Yeah. Yeah, well, i mean, there’s such a wide array of how how to do it anywhere from, you know, using technology that better segment people. So then using technology to communicate with them and an automated way that still gives them the personal message to, you know, let’s, just call it their segment. So we and looking at data doing like a pending additional information teo file, we can see people with people’s preferences on dh, then really group people into segments based around their interests and their behaviours, and then message to them in the digital world or in the male world based around those behaviors. You know, i got a male peace sent to me a week or so in the last week. And i thought this was a great example i send to give online. Ah, but i still, you know, well, often receive mail from the organization that i give two online, and this was i think, the first time i’ve seen it, they sent me. They did send me an appeal now asking for a gift. But within that envelope, i also had, um, a communications preference, little quick, like, check these boxes. This is what you currently have told us you want to receive. Is that still accurate? And i don’t know why. Maybe i just haven’t been paying attention, but i can’t be like a. Hadn’t. It would seem that much before was a good example of me being able to very quickly, you know, that the organization being able to include it in a piece of mail, they were already standing, and for me, too, very quickly feel like, oh, they are tryingto listen, this is nice, you know. Yes, we all. We all want to be heard, um, let’s. So let’s, let’s. Uh, go back to the paper, demystifying the donor journey, set out some some methods, strategies for, for doing better, you know, for standing out, and one of them is teo have processes. Business rules around this, this journey, and we just have, like, a minute and a half or so before break. Yeah, i think yes. On paper, we outlined first about way alan guthrie stumbling blocks, and then we outlined for different ways to overcome them on the first one, i think it’s really important, establishing business rules, business rolling processes, so that can be everything from getting just alignment within departments in the organization to dedicating staff, too. You know, safe. I’m gonna own stewardship on detention, the experience, um two, looking at a subset of your data and doing kind of a small test on the substance of data around stewardship, and created an interrupt process from that. Let me stop you on that one. Testing for testing, for example. What? So testing let’s. See, i actually was talking to a colleague recently. Gave an example of, and she has to be an organization that did did events. I thought this was a really great example of a test where they surveyed about the events and found that their wass. One thing that really would throw off the experience of the participants, the event. And when they discovered that one thing by just surveying event goers and they were able to fix it and their event seven infection with way up. So that’s an example of looking at one small thing to test and then making a change from it. So yes, i liked it. It was successful for them when they when they were ableto again. A okay, we have to. We’re going to keep talking. About what? With strategies are in the paper. I’ve got to take a break. Wagner, cpas, here’s an excerpt from their latest testimonial. They’re accessible, they care about their clients. End quote, can you say that about your accounting and audit firm? Ah, yeah. Not so sure. Okay, check out wagner, go to the site, take a look, then pick up the phone and talk to the coach. Tomb one of the partners, one of the many partners there. He will take care of you. Very good guy. C p a very good guy. Very good guy. First, second, wagner, cpas. Dot com. Now, time for tony’s. Take two. I’ve got the full version in video of build your grantmaker relationships this’s a panel i moderated at the foundation center. We played it on the show last month, and that was that’s the broadcast version. Now i’m releasing the director’s cut it’s the full show roughly ninety minutes unedited it’s almost double the time of what you heard on this show last month. Never before released footage unedited. We talked about relationships before you’re funded. How to introduce your organization to funders, what to, uh, what to do to make that relationship strong while you’re funded and keep it strong insider tips on what not to do mistakes not to make so i had to cut out a lot too fit the ninety minutes into the show. Now you can get the full content director’s cut the full experience, which she also, by the way, includes my opening with a story from my stand up comedy sets go to twenty martignetti dot com that’s, where you will find the full video, let us return to taylor shanklin and the donor journey she is vice president of product marketing and strategy at pursuant and tell her look, i’d like to keep going with something. Strategies. Because i you know, we’ve we’ve laid out what the what the ideal is. And what the problem’s, khun b, let’s, let’s. Keep going with what some strategies are you suggest in the paper. Step back and consider the ideal experience for donors. Yes, it’s about taking a taking a moment of pause and really mapping out with the journey should be so you don’t go on a trip without pulling out your gps these days, right? You don’t plan a wedding up without, you know, pulling together ah book and and a plan and i don’t think most breaks on the donor no different. You know, if you are goingto work so hard on getting people into the door, then we need to work just as hard hyre making sure they have a great experience, and one of the ways you can do that is through doing a donor journey. Back-up um, we do a lot of work on on our team here, pursue it with organizations are looking to map out the stone experience, what is the full cycle look like? What are different touchpoint that we want to make that our intentional along the way, based on the ways that a donor is interacting and engaging with us, so i think it’s really important toe think about a plan nearly and create that map before you just dive right into a particular direction that you’re going to go with you. With you through the journey mapping this is actually you’re actually writing it, you know, putting on a board for everybody toe everybody to contribute, to write you actually mapping what you’re doing and suggestion is now what? What’s the ideal, how could we streamline it? Maybe how can we make it? Maybe they introduced. They invite you, they meet more people, you know? How can it be broader? We’re trying. We’re actually writing this, mapping it out on a board, right? Yes, yes, exactly. So it’s, like work with we’ll sit down and do working sessions to really kind of map it out do like the like a post it notes on a wall. Sort of a thing, you know, looking at okay, what’s the first experience our donors will have, how does the process of altum that what one of the ways someone might come in on donate to us the first time, and then what is the touchpoint we want to make on that for some organization. It might be looking and trying to understand donors connections better to the mission. And we talked a little bit about that and then really focusing on okay, how do? We align our strategy and our donor experience based on this connection for other organizations like hyre ed institutes or hospitals, organizations like that. It might be more about tryingto understand the point of last connections. Um, and then determine. Okay, what makes the most sense? Mazarene touchpoint with that organization? What you mean? Is that what what’s this? A point of last connection? What is that? So that could be, you know, point of last connection went to let’s let’s say just in the case of have you hyre at or something point of last connection might have been that day, you know, went to went to a game last season or something like let’s. See if it fits in athletics department or something like that. Or it could be gate that they give a gift. So i just kind of various from organisations. Organisations based on the type of cause that you are okay, it’s really? Just sitting down and uniquely mapping that out. Um so what makes sense for the organization? Yeah. Ok. So it’s like the like they last engagement or something? That’s. What? That’s what? Yeah, last contact connection. Okay, okay. I’m trying. I want to keep you out of drug in jail. I’d hate to throw you in there. It sze not too it’s. Not too hard to get out, but let’s, just keep you out from the beginning. Um, yeah, okay, um, yeah, i think that the journey mapping i mean, i think this could be valuable for everybody who’s involved in the in the engagement process to be sitting down and saying, you know, this is what we’re doing and, you know, when you see it visually, i think you’re going toe recognize, you know, where is disjointed, where it could be much more duitz personalized, you know, not so maybe fragmented, you know, when you when you actually see it and talk about it, i think a lot flick comes out of these meetings, right? Yeah. And what really interesting comes out of the sweden because it really does get into talking about the feelings that a constituent has at those engagement points. Right? So how does someone feel when they engage with giving you a gift or engaged with you by going to your gala or going to your five k, um and then focusing around, you know? Okay, how? Do we then kind of really tapped into that feeling that kind of, like moment of truth that someone maybe has with your organisation at that time of interacting with you and then expanding upon it? Yeah, expanding, you know, we’re always tryingto deep in the relationship, you know, you know what their interest is, but you know, what is what is amazon always do when you buy something customers who bought this, we’re also interested in these dozen things no it’s like it’s, uh, what’s that it’s something in marketing, grab a finger, take a hand, you know, you’re like a donor gives you their finger, but, you know, you want a little more you want, you know what doesn’t want the finger? You want the whole hand, so offer them offer the more i mean, you’re not just literally, you know, you know, grabbing, but you’re offering more, you’re offering to deepen. We know you met this person on our team. I would like to introduce you, you know, next coffee. I’d like to bring my colleague who you haven’t met yet, you know, you know, finger in hand, you know? No, that that’s, exactly. I love it. That you mentioned you have the amazon example, you might like these other products and, you know, just the the thought process and even like, okay, i ordered something and i’m going to get a text provocation like, hey, it’s, on the way, just so it’s like it almost like, keeps this engagement point where? Okay, cool. I know the shift, i know i can expect it and like he said, put that into the non-profit sectors like, hey, you went to our gala, did you know that we’re doing? I walk in a couple months, right? Did you know that the’s other people in our area are also volunteering on dh they’re going to do ah, meet up or, you know, whatever it is it’s figuring out how to let people know about other ways dahna to be involved in connect, i think at the end of it, it’s, like people supported cause because there’s some sort of very meaningful connection, um and so finding ways to tap into that connection and that good feeling. I’ve never talked anybody who didn’t have a good feeling after supporting a cause helping making real meaningful impact on the world, right? Like it’s, great it’s, just part of a, you know, a reason why you and i probably, like, and people listening like beans in this industry. It feels great to feel like you’re making an impact, and donors feel great when they’re making an impact, so tap into that more and connect with that feeling and keep them on that high. You know, i think it’s really important. You feel it in your heart, and and also there’s, no rocks, there’s neuroscience research that shows that donating activates pleasure centers, the same centers that get activated when reading chocolate, having sex. I can’t think of another pleasurable things, but it’s, hard to go beyond those but theo ultimate chocolate being the penalty, and then sexy krauz being the altum. You know, but no, it sze bona fide. I mean, the research of russell James at texas tech is 1 of the universities in texas shows this the brain lights up. The pleasure centres light up, and we’re not talking about eight figure or even seven or six figure gifts. But, you know, like a ten dollar gift ignites your pleasure centers in the brain. So, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s, emotional and it’s also physical. Yeah. So, you know, get a finger, grab a hand. Okay. Um, digital experiences you what you’re looking for immersive digital experiences. Where you what is pursuing talking about? Yeah, well, i mean, i think it’s so much that you khun do now in the digital world of that it is e-giving and i know i can be very overwhelming at the same time. Um, i definitely know from talking toa non-profit organizations around, you know, sometimes i get out some of the conferences on give talks on things you could be doing in digital. And a common thing that i hear is that, um, you know, it’s overwhelming. You know, we don’t know how to do it on the staff. It sounds expensive. But what i think really interesting, this technology is making it morning testable easier round, even less expensive should do cool stuff in the genital digital world. I mean, some of the work that we do immersive experiences and say that i think i’ve been cool are creating some some fun survey, some fun quizzes, um, that really kind of tap into again tap into what are your motivations around? E-giving through an interesting digital survey or or a quiz that it’s just kind of fun that maybe teachers, something about the the mission that the donor didn’t know? I was looking at one the other day that we did and for a health care organization, so it the quiz kind of took people through and gave a lot of interesting one that related to that mission. So there’s there’s, i think ways toe engage with people in that way in an interesting way sound this is not not something that we’ve done, something that i personally have been fascinated with lately is trying to figure out how to create interesting, more personal conversation through digital technologies like chat loss and stuff like that. And so, you know, kind of playing around with those what they look like, there’s, one that i found of an organization that has a facebook chat latto and it’s, a faith based organization, and they have a chat bought with the pope and i found it really fun and interesting it’s a facebook chat, but so it’s on a platform that i’m on and it sort of engages you threw, like, hastened the provoc but, you know, did you know that easter is coming up? What i found interesting is that was like the initial when i originally just kind of wanted to go test it out and see what it was doing and how it worked. Yeah, that was some of the kind of, like, just fun kind of quirky ways that have engaged me in the beginning, and this is all autumn either, right? But as i continue to play around with it now, it’s doing it’s, giving me more information that connects to the mission e-giving me yesterday, it, like popped up with a message on my phone i was like, okay, let me look at this thing again and give me interesting facts that related to the mission and took me through sort of like the quiz like, did you know, like, how many people in this world you think don’t have access to clean water and gave me a multiple choice and kind of, like took me to this quiz? So i think that’s in just an example of different ways through digital, that we can really engage with people and more immersive kind of personal ways we have to take a break, but when we come back, i’m going to ask you about making surveys fun, that’s interesting, and i don’t think we see a lot of that tillers credit card in payment processing it’s, a long tale of passive revenue waiting for your non-profit you encourage businesses to switch their credit card processing to tell us, and your organization will get fifty percent of all the revenue that tello’s earns on every single transaction indefinitely, the tail doesn’t end. We’re talking about long term relationships here. This is one that doesn’t end because they have a hundred percent satisfaction. Send your potential supporters to tony dot m a slash tony tell us look at the video you got to live listen love assed part of the relay it’s part of the part of the listener journey we’re talking about the donor journey the listener journey with non-profit radio must include the live listener love it’s got to go out and i think it’s going tio! Tampa, florida, brooklyn, new york, multiple new york, new york always grateful for that i’m brooklyn! Welcome live lesser love on dh, columbus, ohio, tacoma, washington, new bern, north carolina reliable there live lesser love to each of our domestic live listeners and then no hesitation let’s go abroad. Chiba, japan! Konnichi wa, germany, gooden, dog that’s all we’ve got so far live listen love, but we got to the podcast pleasantries, of course, to the over twelve thousand that’s where the vast majority the audience is over. Twelve thousand podcast listeners pleasantries to you grateful that you are with us whenever you are listening with binging on a beach. Well, well, you could be a different hemisphere. Binging on a beach yeah, that’s probably possible or binging while you, uh, while you shovel snow you could be doing that, too. Pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections to our am and fm affiliate station listeners throughout the country all over. The country so glad that you’re grateful really not just glad grateful that your station carries us and that you are listening analog, it still exists. Am and fm listeners affections to you. Now back to the donor journey with taylor. Tell her, can you help us make surveys more fun? You mentioned that and ah, it catches me. What? What? What can we do to make surveys more fun? Yeah, so what we’re talking about creating immersive digital experiences, right? Digital provides a really easy and cost effective way so latto listen to your donor’s toe asked them questions to hear what’s on their minds in the form of surveys. I think that we often want to ask too many questions that air too revealing sometimes, and it just makes people shut down right right away. So i think a way to make more fun of first just make them shorter, okay, don’t ask twenty questions four or five yeah on like i like to think about if you’re thinking about yesterday that you want to create, what is it that you’re really trying to understand and ask questions around that i feel like often times we try to include way too much demographic data and stuff like that in the and surveys and it there’s other ways to get that there’s other time to get that, um and so making the survey more fun starts with just, like, not making it. So i think that, yeah, i also think that survey our quiz can be a great way to, you know, introduce kind of a human, more human element. It can be a way to even ask people questions and kind of a humorous way that still gets at what you’re tryingto understand about, um, i know that based on the mission of the cause of the organization, using humor can be sometimes a great area, right? But i definitely have i think that there’s ways to do it, and when you think about, like, we’ll get the it was a facebook quiz is that, you see, you know, pop up on your facebook feed and how you see your friends kind of, like, get involved in like, oh, what star wars character you like stuff like that? People do it because, like, it’s just kind of funny people like humor, and they like to engage with humor. So i do think that there is an opportunity to be more thoughtful about how do you make it kind of delightful? Um, through either humor through making the quiz on the survey shorter and easier to consume, we talk about brand no there’s, i think there’s a big advantage to having lightheartedness as part of your brand totally don’t take yourself so seriously, it’s it’s not people are not mocking you when they’re laughing at you. They’re laughing with you. Ah, you know, be lighthearted, you know, i look at it, i mean, the major brand in the world. Google, you know, they messed with their logo of seasonal and holidays, you know, when you see them, do doo rim sickle things with their logo and that’s a that’s a small example. But i think it’s a it’s not just nothing wrong with but i think it’s advantageous tohave, lightheartedness, and and fun associated with your brand totally because people connect with that look it’s just on human nature. We like to connect with that. And, you know, i’ve been reading a couple of books on branding recently and it’s like on the one that i was reading, i think it was getting the two of them mixed up because i’ve been reading them kind of side by side, but there’s, this one co-branded intervention and one of the main points to be made in the book was just don’t be boring. It sounds so simple, but i think we often can just, like, be boring without even realizing that we’re being born and so have a little fun with things like surveys on dh pulling and quizzes, i think it’s a good of wait tio have some fun and to be lighthearted, like there’s definitely the time in the place for the message that, you know, sharing a sad story rights, you are sharing the story that’s going to inspire or hit a nerve and maybe a lot less positive way, right? But we’ll have in their ultimately too get people don’t want to give to it, but then i think there are things like surveys and quizzes, you can have fun and create that, you know, when on dh kind of have more of a personality there? Yeah, i do that with this show and listeners may disagree that there’s humor in this show, but it’s ah it’s certainly attempted there’s. I’m amusing myself. I always say, you know, i amuse myself if no one’s laughing. I’m amusing myself, and the listenership is his growing, so i’m not worried. I like human. You have to say that otherwise, you know, i’ll shut your mic off so you have no choice you’re under, you know, would you like a hostage? Okay, let’s ah, yeah. Listeners made discreet. Actually, i got e i’ll share this later on. I’ll share something later on. Somebody didn’t quite get me hyre don’t take me seriously. You know, if you’re not sure that i’m probably not serious if you have to ask that i’m that i’m not you should know that by now, after a seven and a half years old going on eight years. Um okay, uh, the journey, the beginning of the journey you wantto do you think the beginning of the journey is the most critical stage would make sense, but, you know, flesh it out for us. Yeah. So i mean, it is just like, you know, i’ll go back to something that i actually said ten years ago. It’s? Fine, because i think it’s still true the beginning. Of the journey is the honeymoon period, right? Just like when you first get married, the honey moon might be a lot more fun than when you’ve been married for ten years, right? Oh, yes, i’ve heard the rumors to that effect also way certainly not my personal experience it’s certainly not my personal experience, but i’ve heard i’ve heard people talk about that. Yeah, so you know, the first what we found is doing actually research with ah, relationship fund-raising with our partners and friends at at regar e is that the first three years are really critical time, period, three years relationship thinking like the first the first interaction, carrion okay kapin into the motivations and behind the giving and really work on that relationship on. So i guess i consider that sort of the honeymoon period if you’re even looking for opportunity to re engage people start first with people who have engaged with you within the past one, two, three years. Okay? And then there’s a question. I feel like i would not track a little, you know, that’s. Okay. And we just have about a minute left way. Have to wrap up, but but there’s evidence that if you khun, hold a donor for three years than their lifetime value is going to be greater, and the relationship will last that much longer, much longer. Right, right, right, right, exactly. And that’s. Why? I think it’s so important when thinking about the like doing a journey. Mathos osili focusing on that. Those first key interactions people are having when they come in. Make sure if you do one thing, make sure that that initial interaction that you give to someone after the first time they’ve gave given to you for the first time, they’ve shown up to your event for the first time they participate. Donated to a participant in your event. Make sure that that first interaction back that first thank you. That first effort of gratitude. Is it really good? Andi, start there and then push it out from there. But that, you know, first impressions mean a lot. So i think it’s really important. Taken to account what your first impressions going to be? Yeah. First impressions way no, we know the value. Okay, we have to leave it there. Taylor. Thank you so much. Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you, taylor shanklin, vice president of product marketing and strategy. And pursuant to she’s at t shank cycles and the company tony dahna slash pursuant radio next week, idealware sze executive director karen graham is going to publicly release their latest report. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner, cpas, guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com and tell those credit card payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez on this great music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get in. Sting duitz are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor ing. Sometimes the potentiality tune in every tuesday nine to ten eastern time, and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c. Are you feeling unhappy with your body, shape or size? Ever feel out of control with food? I’m elizabeth from nourish the soul, and on the show, you will uncover the route to these imbalances and discover a permanent solution. Latto having a healthy relationship to food and your body. Join us every thursday morning at eleven a, m eastern time on talk radio dot. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com hyre into comics, movies and pop culture at large. What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dellaccio, your host on talking alternative dot com. 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Nonprofit Radio for March 16, 2018: Date Your Donors

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Jonah Halper: Date Your Donors

Jonah Halper is author of the book “Date Your Donors.” He wants you to enjoy the full breadth of fundraising relationships. He’s founder and partner of Altruicity consulting. (Originally aired 3/4/16)

 

 

 

 


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Oh, hi there. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with logar mania if you talked to me about the idea that you missed today’s show date your donors. Jonah helper is author of the book. Get your donors. He wants you to enjoy the full breath of fund-raising relationships he’s, founder and partner of altruicity consulting and he’s with me for the hour. This originally aired on march fourth twenty sixteen on tony’s take two new relationship videos responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio and by weinger sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream durney dahna may slash tony tell us let’s get started with jonah helper and get your donors. Jonah helper is author of the new book date your donors. He wants you to enjoy the full breath of fund-raising relationships he’s, founder and partner of altruicity consulting and he’s with me for the hour. So glad to welcome jonah helper halper halper back to the studio has been a guest before. His new book is date your donor’s he’s, a non-profit marketer and fundraiser with over ten years of experience specializing in new donorsearch acquisition and engaging gen x and wires. He’s, founder and partner of altruicity consulting. They’re at altruicity dot com. The book is at gate, your donor’s dot com and he’s at jonah helper already chuckling. Yeah, welcome back to the studio. Welcome back to the show. I haven’t thrilled in here. Thank you so much. Good to see you. Good to have you here. Congratulations on the book. Thank you. How did you get to the concept of dating and donors? So i started doing ah, training fund-raising training a couple of years ago. And i just found i started using a lot of dating analogies that was very natural on daz. I started tio go down that rabbit hole of discussing, you know, how fund-raising is is akin to relationships in courtship and attraction and things along those lines. I started to think about about my career as a fundraiser, and i noticed that there were even even the people who, you know. Classically trained in fund-raising and, you know, had the experience, some fundraisers were unbelievable at the craft, you know, there’s some fundraisers who, you know, we’re okay, they’re mediocre or they were just, you know, kind of putting in the time and they’re doing the kind of, ah, the best breast practices of the business, but there was a clear line between those who were the born fundraisers or seemingly born fund-raising and those who weren’t and i started to wonder why that wass and it wasn’t something you would able to see in a resume, it wasn’t something that was just, you know, you can look and see their track record and see why that was the case. It was experiential, like i would interact with these people, and that was it was kind of like an use of cool, like, it was just like you would be around them and you would be, you know, wanting to be around that would be attracted to and as that started to take shape, i started teo kind of more put, ah, structure around it to say, what is it that those type of people have that makes people want to? Be around them as a fundraiser or as just a human being. And, you know, one of the interesting kind of correlations i found was it was very someone of my high school experience, which is you, weren’t you were you were not so cool in hyre i wish i was on the other side. But you know what it wass is i went to a boarding school, all boys, a tremendous amount of testosterone. And basically, you know, the need and the desire to be on the in crowd was the most important thing to make. Yeah, i i spent so many waking hours just trying to figure out the chess moves that would take me to be in the inner circle. And what it did is it drove me further and further away. I became like the hanger on ah, and i thought i was i thought was a cool guy. I thought i had, you know, certain skills. I thought i you know, i was in a terrible ballplayer. Like the things that were important to high school boys. I was a terrible ballplayer. I i got my my varsity letter in announcing oh, i as one step below cheerleaders, annan varsity letter ship. So, i mean, i dealt with these things with a sense of humor and a nem barris ingley a large number of times. It would more be people laughing at me then with me. Right, which only, which only further perpetuates that downward spiral. Yeah, three guys, a joker reason he’s the jester. But he’s not, you know, it’s. Not even always laughing with them. Like i said so. All right, so i dealt with it. That was my athletic outlet was announcing right there and managing rights to carry soccer balls on and off the field. Make sure nobody was on the bus on time. So you’re announcing a managing in-kind of understandably why, you kind of self selected into certain kind of career. Yeah. Now, now announcing right for myself. Exactly. I’m not shepherding a bunch of high school kids on a bus on then announcing touchdown. Thie irony. The irony is i knew any i still know nothing about sports, right? I mean, i have trouble distinguishing football from baseball. Well, so have a great fundraiser is that you can talk intelligently on any subject for about two and a half minutes, lord, help you. If they want to have a deeper dive in texas well, two and half minutes they’ll be laughing that will be actually laughing at me. But i football is the one with the field goals, i think. Yes, yes. Your baseball has the three pointers. No, basketball is through your basketball to report. Okay, so so the irony was, you know that there’s somebody whispering what? What to announce almost exact my ear. Oh, that’s got a touchdown. Touchdown number fourteen that’s? Uh oh, yeah, here he is, steve berman, who was a friend of mine. I couldn’t remembers number, but that’s how i dealt with my awkwardness and oppcoll snusz so? So where i’m going with this is is that i found there were certain kind of character traits of that of that high school kid who seem to be the center of attention. And then i found that things don’t really change from high school things like yeah, i know i don’t i hope i’m in outlier and that in your theory, i’m an aberration. We’ll know what it does is it way kind of grow into a lot of the things that we are lacking in high school, high school, you’re just naturally you’re trying to figure yourself out there’s not necessarily the confidence there, you know, there’s a discovery that’s going on there so it’s not a natural thing for you kind of say, this is who i am, these with skills i bring that confidence that’s kind of grown over the years, but that what i’m alluding to when i’m kind of referencing now is the fact that confidence and clarity whether whether it’s real or not on the high school level, right, that perceived confidence is something that people are attracted to, the fact that you say i know who i am, i know what i stand for. This is what, whether for good or for bad, this is who i am, people want to be around people who have that who have the kind of that confidence say this is what we stand for. This is what i’m excited about. This is where i’m headed, and i want you to join me and confidence and clarity or a couple of things that were going to talk about yes, because as you’re suggesting, those are traits of good fundraisers. Those those outlier fundraisers that are at the at the high end? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, cool. Uh, what’s. So why don’t we go out a little early for a break right now? It seems like natural place and we come back, we will dive into the details of date. Your donors stay with us. It’s. Time for a break pursuant. Their newest paper is demystifying the donor journey. They want you to be intentional. Deliberate about stewarding your donors so you don’t lose them. This is very much what jonah and i are talking about today. Same subject different take pursue. It will help you create and fine tune your donorsearch stewardship plan paper is that tony dahna slash pursuant radio now, back to date your donors, jonah helper. My guest. We’re talking about his new book date your donors. Um, you want to start with authenticity, and so ah, this is where i was not so authentic in high school, but i believe i’m much more authentic now, but sure, authenticity a great trait for fundraisers. Yeah, you know, it’s it’s interesting. Because when you are in the business of raising money, you’re interacting with a lot of people. Who are high net worth who travel in certain circles? Have a certain lifestyle, it’s easy to kind of pander to them and try to say, you know, i want to be on the inside so i can get money from them. That’s the kind of at the perspective especially young fundraiser has is how can i get into this this network? And what i was when i mention before and when i think applies when it comes to authenticity, is andi also packaged in the non-profit, you know, jargon of mission and vision, the idea is that you should know what your folks what you’re standing for there is a few of my jonah helper and working with a special needs charity, and this is my my job and my mandate and what i’m raising money for. I’m not jonah helper, mr country club. I’m not jonah helper, mr poker player, you know, hanging, hanging out with with these individuals, they may become friends and that’s fine, and they may become my network, but i’m coming to them not underneath the guise of being a buddy of being one of their friends just being part of their network, but rather, i’m coming through the through the lens off my mission, what i’m in the business of doing, where i’m headed with this, what i hope to accomplish with my mission and how these individuals can be a part of that experience in a way authenticity is not me trying to fit into their world, mohr them trying to fit into my world, and and that requires me not to be focused on myself, right? And i know what i am, what i stand for, but rather interact with them, and then hopefully they see what who i am or what i stand for, that authenticity, what i’m really in the business of doing, and they’ll gravitate today, and they’re hopefully attracted to it, right? Not metoo them but them to me. So let’s, break this down because you’re talking about authenticity of the person and also authenticity of the organization cracked. All right, so let’s, start with the person. This is where we get to confidence, you know, you you want yeah, yeah, you just don’t want people to be molding themselves to what they think, the donor that they’re meeting that day or that our wants them to be right. But be true to yourself. Well, they’ll see right through that in there is if you’re the type of person who’s going to be mike mission creep like, you know, you know, i may be the business of doing this well, but you’re excited about that. Well, let me chase you down there about you know, about that that i know what i’m in the business of doing this is who i am, what i stand for that person’s a hedge fund, you know? Ah, man or woman, i am a fund-raising professional for this organization. That’s what i do know this is who i am and what i do if the if the stars align and they’re interested in what i’m doing, they’ll support it. If this is not of interest to them, it is not a priority for them if it’s, you know, not meant to be it’s not meant to be, but the moment i start chasing people down this, then i’m effectively being that kind of aggressive door knocker to say, you know, give, give, give me, me, me, i i and that’s why i don’t want to be playing now, but what about when you get into situations like you’re meeting with a donor and we get into a political conversation or something religious, you know where you’re your stars are not aligned with theirs, you know, maybe you’re different political spectrum, different into the political direction, then they are how do we how do we stay authentic? So it’s? Interesting, because i’ll give a kind of ah kind of case in point, you know, there’s some people who use social media, where there’s like a clear demarcation line between the personalizing, the professionalizing we’ll have, this is my missing my business account like this is my business facebook this is my organizational facebook presence on this is my personal place facebook president and never shall the twain you know me that that is not my approach. My attitude is my my priorities, my belief system, you know, what’s important to me what i don’t think it’s important to me is as much ah factor in my relationship with these individuals than than anything else. The fact they may not agree with me politically, or the fact that may not agree with me what it is, then that’s that’s their prerogative, but at the same time, it’s nothing to do with the mission vision might cause i think mature people can make that clear separation between what is relevant, teo, the supporting whatever the good work that i’m doing other educational, humanitarian or are you know, whatever it is as and what jonah helper you know, does on his on his free time now, there’s importance of someone being trustworthy and having credibility and respect and you can ruin that by what’s going on in your personal life. So there is absolutely a certain amount of of measure that goes into what you’re doing. Discretion, yes, absolutely absolute discretion. But because people look and people see and if you want them, if you want them to give you their money and to trust you with their money to accomplish a certain good, if they think that you are not a trustworthy person because of the way you live or your reckless in some way or form, then that obviously is going to hurt you on the business side. But i think that things that are whether it’s politics or religion, you can agree, be respectful and you can agree to disagree and i don’t think that will ah, bill deepti, be a deal breaker. In fact, what i find is that when people know jonah helper father for jonah helper, you know, his religious level or his political involvement that just shapes me as a person, and i find that the people who have become fast friends within become my donors are people who become friends and in a bigger way than just, you know, thank you for your check, and i’ll keep your loophole. You’re good how the good work is, you know, playing out it’s become more friends, i think a good example that is, when i had, you know, a couple of my last children, i would get presents from some of my donors because it was clear that i wasn’t just fundraiser was jonah halper, of course, you know, help her father. Father? Yeah, yeah, so that s so there’s, of course, abounds there, okay? And i see that playing more now in our presidential election year i politics come up more in conversation that with donors, potential donors when i’m with clients, then you know, then even just six, six or eight months ago, if you’re too highly spackled like if you’re like, you know what i mean? Spite i i was like, like, mr clean jeans, there’s no power there’s no depth to you outside of your job, people are not going to find a way not going can connect with you, there’s not gonna be that human connection because your justice, you know, tom aton doing the work of your organization and you’re not a human being. So i think i think those other things that add flavor, not color and deep in the relationship, obviously again with certain amount of discretion depends on how you live your life. But but, yeah, i think that’s so important people realize who you are as a person and even not just as you’re, you know, you mentioned social media, but just in conversation, you know, you don’t have to be the raging donald trump or bernie sanders fan. You could be respectful of the other person and say, you know, you know, o r, you know, maybe you don’t even need to in a conversation say what your aspirations are and who you hope will win just oh, you know, okay, yeah. He’s cool or hillary’s lullabies finite. You know, matt, i see points in her, and most people are not going to say who do you stand? Who do you want? You know, they’re not going to challenge that way and that’s another thing also is that when there is a conversation where you want this is that you have a position or you feel strongly about something, i think that if you’re open minded person or healthy person, those those conversations can be interesting without devolving into, you know, for violence. So i think i think that you could you could have those conversations, and just by virtue of the business, you have those conversations because you could be at a country club, you could be on the golf course, and you’re not talking business for ninety percent of the time you’re talking family talking politics, you talking religion and time all the things that everyone talks about. S o yet you have to be kind of present and in that experience and be really yeah, and you want to get beyond the small talk? Yeah, you make the point that your donors, you know, we’re looking for common ground, so we start conversations often with weather right? Because everybody shares that. But, you know, if that goes on for more than like a minute and a half, i start to get antsy way got to get further than the weather, and they know why you’re there like there’s, no qualms that the reason why you’re in their offices because they talk about the mission in vision of your organisation, what you hope to do and why you need their money. So it’s it’s not like you pulled the wool over the eyes. We’re talking, you know, baseball and the next thing you know, we’re talking money. They know why you’re there so it’s just a matter of of guests making the connection, finding the connection, whether it’s through friends, your common connections, whether it’s, tio shared interests, whatever case, maybe, but they’re expecting the having a deeper conversation about what you’re doing, and they respect you for what you’re doing. You know, this is that was this is the business that you chose to be in your raising money for a worthy cause and making wonderful impact. So there’s nothing to shy away from its not fund-raising is not a dirty word here a lot. Of these traits, but all of these traits, or that you’re seeking in fundraisers, can’t be hyre ascertained from a from a resume, and you mention this in the book, too, that that, you know, it’s a personal business, you want to meet people before? I mean, obviously there’s gonna be a personal interview, but you don’t find resumes, a very valuable tool for recruitment, basically what i’m saying, right? I think i think in general you’ll find word of mouth is always the strongest, you know is whether you’re looking for new business or whether you’re looking tto find their best people. Companies around the world have wonderful policies where there’s incentives if you refer people to the company and they get a job there for existing employees. There’s a reason for that? Because if you’re willing to put your reputation on the line to bring someone in who you think would be a good fit for the company, then that then that person has a better chance of being a good person as opposed to just another resume and an inbox so there’s absolutely value ah, stronger value and sitting in front of somebody and interacting with them. In a in a real way to be able to determine if they’ve kind of got the personality and the kind of the gumption to do the work and do the fund-raising i needs to get done that you will never be able to get by just looking at a piece paper. Yeah, how poised are they right? Right? I mean, you might think, well, you know, the interview is an artificial, um, environment and there’s high stress, you know, for the interviewee, but so is fund-raising i mean, if you’re meeting a donor for the first time, that’s a bit of high stress, a potential donor for the first time, actually, if i could show a quick story that i think way don’t really care way stay in the abstract, i don’t know i love no, we love stories. All right, so it’s interesting. You say that you know, it’s high stress experience interview process. When i got my first job, i met with i want to like a job fair, for it was for the jewish federation system, which is like the united way for the jewish community and it was a national it was the national umbrella. Organization that hosted this job fair and there must have been twenty different cities represented the had their own local jewish federation, and i went to this Job fair is super green 20 year old kid, i did not even know what i was applying for. I was like, i want to help the jewish community that’s all i knew, i didn’t know fund-raising know anything on i start interviewing for all these jobs called campaign associate? I thought political campaign no, no campaign means fund-raising so i didn’t know that when i was interviewing, but i’m all the interviews that i had, there were what you’ve described grilling me, you know? What would you do in this scenario? And then you’re at an event and this happens, you know, a lot of that kind of stuff. And as someone who is new, that was jarring. I didn’t know even what to proud of process that what the right answer was this is the wrong answer. There was one organization there representing one federation there from baltimore, maryland, with me who ended up becoming my first boss kind of ruin the punch line there, but he didn’t ask me any. Questions about fund-raising or non-profit what would you do in a difficult situation? Not none of it. It was. What books do you like to read? You like wwf wrestling? Or is it calling out? It was all of this random stuff, and i sat with him for forty five minutes, and we just, like, talked and at the end of the forty five minutes there’s, like, all right, we’re done, and i was totally confused because especially in context of all the other interviews that i just had, this one was like, like, he was, like, wasting my time. Yeah, i got to call backs. He was one of them and i ultimately went to baltimore ended up starting my career in baltimore for three years there, and i finally mustered the courage to ask him. Obviously, once i have the job because i want to, you know, scare amount of hiring me, i said, you know what? Why did you hire me? He said, you have a nice smile, you carry a good conversation, the rest you’re going to learn on the job, and that was very powerful because that was him sitting across from a and saying is he a nice guy? Does even nice smile? Is he? Is he great interact with? Because that part is harder to teach the art and that’s the part that you master that from high school is a part that i like god it’s trial by fire? Exactly. I got that out of high school, but that was something that was a lesson that i’ve taken with me since then to know that you were a you hire the right person not to fill a position where a lot of the other ones were, they were looking to federals phil position, and they’re trying to determine my skills if i was good for that position, but rather he said, here’s a guy who i think has potential, i’m going to hire him and i’ll obviously augment the position to be right for him and b he was looking at me for my potential here’s, somebody on dh what i was able to present on the emotional and the human side, the science of how to go out there and raise money. I had no doubts the twenty year old kid you could learn what do you like it? Outstanding so so you had clarity, you were you were clear about who you were. You exuded confidence, no doubt and and and led to the hyre yeah, okay, all right, what are the traits? What else do you like to see in individual fundraisers before we get to that? This clarity of organization around mission and things like that? What else do you like to see in a fundraiser? So, obviously, you know, one of the one of the most important ones is, you know, and they often they they even say it on resumes on a job, but descriptions is, you know, self starter, but i want to dive labbate deeper in that idea of being that kind of entrepreneurial person to get out there and create new relationships, because when you are an entrepreneur, whether you work for a big company organization or you are on your own, a fundraiser is somebody who has to build their own network. If you’ll come into a new city or a new organization, you’re not necessarily hopefully, you’re not just picking up the dozen are one hundred donors that already giving you’re going out there and raising new money, and that requires you to be a self starter to say okay. Where are these people? Who would be interested in supporting this cause? How do i get introduced to these individuals? How doe i interacted them? How do i stay in touch with them? And all those kind of skills require you not sitting on your couch eating bon bon. Sorry. If that’s your approach, then it’s not gonna work if you want to be sitting behind a desk. It’s not going to work, you have to be somebody who enjoys the thrill of going out there and and making those contacts so that’s that’s one of them, you know, main things that i that i look for, somebody who has that kind of drive to kind of get out there and make it happen as if you’re building your business. Because you aren’t your house. You’re building your network, your own proverbial roll independent for your business, it’s, for the good of the mission. Exactly. All right. So let’s, go to the organization side being being clear and confident on the organization side because we want to be successful in our dating relationship with our donors. Come, you want a clear clear statement of mission. Somebody like you like eight word mission even right? So that’s a lot. A lot of you know, the consultants who will help the organisation shape their mission has to be concise. It has to be super concise. You know what you could share with somebody on one floor trip up in the elevator, right? It’s? Really? What? Who are you? What? What? What’s the organization. And if your job is tio and malaria deaths done, we’re in the business of ending larry desk. You’re not waxing poetic about how you’re going to do it and buy what deadline you just want to be able to say mission is what you’re in the business of doing. So you should be able to clearly say, like you said, you know, eight words or, you know, one sentence, this is what we’re in the business of doing. The only thing you might claire qualify it with maybe his location like right ending malaria deaths, west africa, right, right. That’s tied to your containers? Yes, exactly. If you if you are central africa and that’s your job and that obviously is in their mission statement. Absolutely. But again, it’s. Not going on about, you know, your values and the vision for this it’s just clearly what you’re in the business of doing much kruckel sip of water because it looks like your first thing. Andi, i will suggest that we talked about so the mission you have some examples of missions in in the book, remember? I mean, charity water is very brief form, so i’m obviously a big fan of charity water. They bring clean water to basically to the people in africa and, well, it’s interesting they limited to africa and it’s a whole nother conversation about the scope of their vision, but they do of many, many different villages in central africa, on some other areas as well, but basically they are fund-raising organization and the fund water projects on the ground, so they don’t actually drill themselves. They have organizations on the ground doing the drilling, but they are a fund-raising organization that funds those those well projects, and they’re one of the organization has a very concise mission statement. Yeah, a lot of them dio i’m trying to think it was your forjust certainly particularly well, no, just that was one example you cite. Some of the books so people have to buy the book way can give the whole book about paige, expect this only non-profit radio this’s not provoc radio should expect you should have high expected. Yes, but we can’t bring you all two hundred rich pages. Yes, of data. And i would have come with a list of the mission statements prepared. Dahna okay, after mission, we’re moving to our vision. Yes. Now we’re getting a little more detail. Yes. So so and when you talk about vision, obviously i’m doing it through the context of dating and relationships. You know, vision is where you’re headed. So when i talk about dating when you’re dating for a purpose, right, you’re looking to find somebody who can spend you know, whether it’s rest your life with our meaningful part of your life. The idea is to find somebody who wants similar things, as you, you know, using the dating analogy. Do they want to have children? Do they want to live in the city or the suburbs? Do they want to be? Yeah. Primary breadwinner. Both, you know, both working whatever the case may be. But these air important conversations you have when you’re dating someone seriously, where we headed together is unit because if you’re not on the same page of one wants children and it’s important to him, and the other one doesn’t want children that’s probably a deal breaker, so so, you know, the correlation to fund-raising is that i am and discovered that in my first marriage kayman oh, there you are, bring i could bring some case study in on the way outside our competition advice to se eso eso eso when i was so when you’re when you’re doing the fund-raising business cerini fund-raising business and you’re and you’re looking to get someone to support your cause, you’re not supporting your cause for what they are. It is now right? You’re not we’re break, we bring clean drinking water to central africa that’s not the case that’s gonna get someone open their wallet, what’s going to get them to open the wall is this is where we are now, but this is where we’re headed, and if they buy into the idea of where you’re headed, then they’re going to support you. So if they like, if they see that vision of your organization is the white picket fence with the dog and the tire swing, then they will support you. They’re not here to fill holes or to cover your gaps in your budget. They want to know that you are a viable organization and you have some great things in mind and you’re headed in their group great direction. So that’s, what i talk about vision and through the dating perspective is the idea that you’re selling somebody on where you’re headed. We need a break. Wagner cps, here’s an excerpt from their latest testimonial quote, they’re accessible, they care about their clients end quote, can you say that about your accounting and ordered firm? Go to the site weinger cps dot com, check out their credentials, check out their clients, then you know how i like to do it. Pick up the phone and talk to you. Eat huge tomb regular cps dot com now time for tony, take two. I’ve got three new videos, all on the same subject. Build your grantmaker relationships that may sound familiar to you. It was on the show a month ago that was february sixteenth. Now it’s in video repurposed you see different format and perhaps you learn better by video that’s possibility. Although then you’re probably making a mistake listening to non-profit radio audio podcast. If you learn better by video, then you’re wasting your time right now. Right now, this minute, the second that you’re spending this thing to me right now. Right now. Now, this one right now, it’s wasted it’s wasted, squandered, um, or maybe just a little interested in video, but you also like audio so let’s go on that hypothetical because otherwise you would’ve turned me off already. And then you’re not even gonna know what the videos were about because you already shut me off ten seconds ago. This is what the videos are. They are three versions of the panel that i moderated at the foundation center. We have the full version. That is roughly ninety minutes. There’s the broadcast version roughly fifty minutes. That’s. What you heard on the show back in february and there’s the executive summary, which i pared down the whole ninety minutes to about ten minutes. Chopped it. But you know, executives, you know, they never get we all know this, right? The executives never know the full story they don’t get into the weeds. So if you want the executive summary, you can have it for about in about ten minutes, but do it do so at your own peril? I would say there’s lots of good advice from this panel for the foundation center. You remember it, you know it was a couple weeks ago, but in case you want a fuller version, you know, then you got the link to the ninety minutes. If you want to hear the broadcast version again by video for some reason, maybe you learn better by video, but let’s not get into that morass. Anyway, i got videos for you, and if you wantto, if you want to refresh your recollection that’s a that’s, a term of art in the law, by the way, refresh, you’re talking to a witness and you give them a writing, a paper and that’s used to refresh their recollection. It would be admissible just for that purpose. So if you want to refresh your recollection, then maybe you want thea the broadcast version or the executive summary. Let’s see this? Those of the panel is on grantmaker relationships and we are going to continue with that. We continued with that the following week, some losing myself. So if you if you ah phew, like if you come in and out of the podcast and is only some you listen to some you don’t you want to know that grantmaker sze we talked about twice there was this there was this panel from the foundation center that i moderated, and then the week after was, um, john hicks from d l b remember dylan’s like bull picks, so if you are interested in grantmaker relationships, you feel like you’re not doing well in grantmaker relationships, you’ll want to check out the videos and also that show that was that followed with john hicks. All right, we’ve got my video with links to these three versions of the video that is at tony martignetti dot com. Now let us return to jonah helper, the wise and the wise and experienced jonah helper and date your donors. Okay, jonah helper. Thank you for your indulgence, sir. Hey, you do you freely with ntcdinosaur provoc? I think i actually attended. Not last year, the year before that, and it was amazing there was yes, it was. I had a first all they had, like, big band on stage. You’re talking about twenty fourteen. It might have been twenty. Forty, right? Yeah. I had a fantastic time. It was and it was in california. It was in san francisco that year. I loved it. I mean, they were great. The organizer’s there were we’re fantastic. Yeah. Okay. I think that was twenty. Thirteen. Twenty fourteen. Was my first one there in washington, d c okay, so they alternate east, mid and west sametz been so twenty three years ago. Yeah. It’s a it’s a lot of smart people, they had a big band on stage. It was i mean, it was heaven enchantment, and it was like, well, i wasn’t expecting that andi conference in general gave me that kind of flavor. It was with the sessions or great, the people in the hallways, you know, i always love the hallways, the hallways of the best because that when you meet, you always meet the best people in the hallways. Sessions are good because you can hear the training and they’re in their and the great sessions, but there’s nothing better than being able to just bump into somebody and find out they’re doing amazing work, and it could be a small church in virginia, and they’re doing phenomenal things that you could apply to your organisation in some, you know, specific instance, i love that, yeah, that kind of randomness on dh and the ntc, the non-profit technology conference did that for me. We were talking about your organization and and its mission and vision statements, and you also want, you know, you want organization to be clear about who their primary customers are and not two morph into something that you really don’t belong doing or being with or, you know, again being true to yourself, being say more about that. Yeah, so so, you know, make a good story that i heard from my friend nancy lublin, who is the founder of dress for success, and was then chief old person of do something dot orgryte, which is thine engagement. So the fact that she was, you know, not a team made her the old productions on crisis text long theo, of course treyz his text leinheiser heard one. She started well shouldn’t start do something, yeah, but she might as well have started because where i’m going with that story on dh, everything she touches turns to gold and that’s, not luck, i mean it’s, she is a a tour de force. I mean, she is unbelievable, but the story that she she shared with me was that when she came to do something that or go it was a centres was a brick and mortar centers around the u s where teens we could get involved, and it was founded by melrose place actor shoe, and it was andrew shoe his name was on and it was it was a floundering organization. They were having a major major problems, and they were presented when she came aboard with an opportunity for i don’t know where the dollar amount was my been two hundred fifty, three hundred thousand dollars from the company that that said build a teen center near our call center like near, you know, our operations and, you know we’d love to have a teen center over there. And nancy, as the new ceo of the organization of deuce of do something that orc sa declined the money and an organization that is starving for cash. Yeah, so it it seems to be like, you know, like, what are you doing? You know, your new new new kid on the block here on dh you’re turning down this money and when she brought her into the offices or, you know, in in our offices, she sat down with the leadership in legends like, how how badly do you want this job? You know, your seemed to be kind of walking your way out of it and she said, you know, you need to trust may because this is not the future of do something that i do something right, forget the dot org’s it’s not future of do something to have all these brick and mortar, you know, places for students to kids to come together, it needs to be online and she after that point shut down all the physical locations, took the whole thing online, rebranded to do something as do something dot or ge and and is now getting forget the corporate dollars that she turned away the two hundred thousand tens and tens of millions of dollars they get and primarily comes from from companies so arab hostile will partner with them for teens, for genes. They found that homeless teenagers the number one thing that they wanted were a pair of jeans. Why? Because i don’t have to be washed every day and its owner’s homeless, he doesn’t have access to clean clothes, a pair of jeans are cool enough, you know, generic and cool enough that you could wear and where without having to clean them every day. And that was something that homeless teenagers wanted, and they partnered with aeropostale for kids who had no better privilege to donate their genes threw in the store. It created a tremendous amount of foot traffic into air apostle, and that was vow valuable to them, the co-branding was strong, and it turned out to be a wonderful partnership, and they’ve just replicated that that kind of model of companies adopting programs, supporting their their their operations, it they have done tremendous amount, because so your point they were focused on the mission of, of serving young adults who want to volunteer, and it was not going to be a brick and mortar place. It was going to be online and because she was paying attention to that and not the dollar, she was able to take this organization which was floundering, and make it the powerhouse that it is today. And that she’s now entrusted in the hands of the other time the chief operating officer, aria finger she’s, now the ceo of do something that oregon are on ours, but on non-profit radio toy. So there you go as ceo and as ceo. And then and then they spun that off because, yes, okay, i said yes, because our online they’re able to serve millions and millions of teens like five million’s i mean, they have, and they have this big treasure trove of data. Yes, about teen engagement and know how to engage them in issues. I think they’re think their sweet spot is, like sixteen to twenty five or so. And then beyond twenty five, they used your primary money is coming from companies. Big data or data is so important. So because that’s the case then, like, you know, think that something that you mentioned earlier about how nancy level went into crisis text line that was born out of the fact that they were getting texts, emergency tests, tech of young adults who are suicidal, we’re getting abused or things along those lines and as an organization as there to help people, what do you do with that? They weren’t equipped, they were equipped. And then they found the typical the standard nine nine eleven was not going to be able to handle us, especially for the digital age where people are going on their cell phone and there more comfortable hiding in the bathroom on their cell phone and texting somebody on emergency, they needed to do something. So that kind of stuff has outgrown has grown out of do something dot or ge and that’s? Why, you know, have crisis tax line? So it is there’s so many wonderful examples that you can see where, especially in their story, where they straight stay true to their mission. And if it wasn’t if if if emergency texting was not right for do something dot or ge, they didn’t just, like, expand the mission to fit under, do something out or they made it crisis that’s now a new organization, nancy’s now the head of that, and that was a new thing. It wasn’t like mission creep and now we’re doing, you know, we’re solving another problem. They started a new organization with all focus on your primary custom. Absolutely cool. All right, after we’ve started this relationship, we need to keep it going. And you call this i don’t have a name. That chapter was somewhere you say from lust toe love s o the analogy, the relationships going off you’re so so we all know this and in our in our our own relationships, you know, your boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever it is at the early, early part of the relationship, this tremendous amount of lust, right there is the attraction it’s, new it’s, fresh it’s, exciting and that’s so important because that is going to be, you know, the chemistry needs to be there that’s vital to the success of meeting new people and starting to develop a relationship with them. But it needs to mature right in there is if the relationship is only on that’s. The part i missed in high school. Yeah, the maturity and the whole thing. And during the last night, i had a lot of lost. But you know what to do with it all i’m in the same boat, my friend. S o so yes, so so that that has to mature. So if you get somebody to become a donor of your organization shin right, they may be enamored and they might be a beautiful organization. You could be a charity water you could be, you know, do something that or go any of these clauses that are gorgeous. I mean, they they look gorgeous, their offices a gorgeous they just have got that locked down, but it needs to mature. And it was the relationship with them needs to be more than just face value and it’s not just i’m excited to be part of this, you know, sexy organization. It needs to mature to say, look, i’m a partner. I’m somebody who’s not just early part of the job. I’m a partner. I’m in this for the long haul. I want to help them grow, whether it’s capital improvements, whether it’s, you know the infrastructure, whether it’s special projects, whatever the case may be, i want to see this organization grow from where it is now and where it’s headed. And that means that the relationship needs to mature where they have a greater stake in the game. And that means lino much like in our own personal relationships, where we might do certain milestone things, like move in together, there needs to be that kind of advancement, that kind of moves management and to use, you know, fund-raising jargon to take that relationship from one that’s courtship and maybe a first gift to now increase that support over time. Part of this is a plan. So when you have, we need to be more structured maybe then are in on our dating side and our our relationship side. But we need stewardship plan, basically, what belongs in our stewardship. So i like to talk a lot about new donorsearch accusation because, you know, you mentioned if you have something as a donor and you want to keep one of the chapters is called, keep the fire alive, right? So that you want to put some good practices in place. You know, i talk about there in the in charge of keeping the fire alive and latto kind of moves that move that relationship along, that you should treat someone like an investor or treat them like family right now, or and and and and while it may sound like that’s ah, dichotomy that’s outside the investor way investors or relationships, right? Are you treating me like, like, a business transaction or so the nice thing is that it’s not mutually exclusive because what happens is in your relationships, there are absolutely expectations. If you if we decide tony, you and i decided we’re going to move in together, right? What? We have a wonderful relationship. We love each other. We have a wonderful relationship. We want. We’re going to move in now, and we’re gonna have it going to take it to that one. Quote. Next-gen metoo do this by the way, if your way, my wife, my my feelings in indianapolis. So nobody listens to this show so you don’t worry about it. Word getting out exactly right. Good. We could talk after, okay. So, so if if we want to take that to the next level, is there anything truly different about our relation with each other? Do we love each other anymore? The moment that we are now in the same apartment. No. Right. There’s? No inherent change. That happens between the way you feel about me and i. Feel about, you know, the decision that we’ve decided with it. What we have done is we’ve increased expectations on each other that there’s a certain kind of shared life now that we have that’s more than we had before because we’ve said that this is a priority cubine dark commitment deepen our commitment. So now, now that we’ve deep in our commitment, i am now have a certain level of responsibility to you, right? You have there’s a certain level of investment that i’ve now made, right? Then i know how to manage that’s, like just know if i move in with you and i lived like a single person, right? I don’t care about your feelings. I know it was anything of the week before when we weren’t living together. It was any behaving the same way. But now that we live together, i have a new set of standards that i have to abide by, and it’s me and it’s mutual, right? You have expectations toe on me. I have expectations on you and that’s. Not a bad thing. It’s a it’s a healthy thing, but what happens is i need to meet those expectations. So if i wanted if i if you’ve given me something, if you give me money a cz a fun as ah someone who’s going to give money a donor and i take that money. The relationship starts that right? It’s not thank you for your gift. I’ll speak to you next year. It’s. Now that i’ve taken your ten thousand dollars, i have a responsibility to you to make sure that you know how your money is being spent. Oh, so this gets to our city. Our stewardship plan? Yes. Oh, starts appointed stewardship plan is that when i get to give, when i when i get money from a donor it’s, not just another box to check off and say okay, i got this gift. I got to go get another fifteen or twenty other gifts. Tto meet meet mike. Now, how are we going to right this should how so, how do you really take this? And deep deep in that relationship so there’s everything from leadership roles. There’s these opportunities when it comes to getting them to open up their own home and their own network a lot times people think that if you ask somebody to do favors for you favors going, quote, like open their home for a party meeting or to give your cause that’s burning equity that deepens relation because e-giving to you. So finding ways to cement leadership positions for them to spend more time in your offices. And when i mentioned treating like investors and treat them like family, why should they only have a relationship with you? Right? You are representing an organization, there’s. Some other wonderful people in the office is it’s. Some of the best donors and leaders i know come into the organization and they say hello to everybody from the person at the front desk to the person in the mail room. They know everybody because this is their family now. So those types of opportunities that ways to kind of systemized that are important you could see in the book the whole bunch of suggestions for that. All right, we’re gonna go further. We gotta take a break. But don’t go a little more into this idea that asking people asking donors and volunteers to doom or is not burning them out. It’s deepening the relationship and not doing that could burn them out. So stay with us, you got to take a break. Tell us the credit card and payment processing company. You check out the video at tony dahna slash tony tell us and that is going to explain that long, long tail of passive revenue that you can enjoy when the companies that you refer joint tell us. And you, the non-profit earned fifty percent of everything tellers gets the video. Is that tony dot m a slash tony? Tell us now, back to jonah helper asking people to do more. Yes, whether they are donors or board members, this is not typically does not lead to burn out. What leads to burnout is give me your your annual gift. And now give me your annual gift a year later and a year later and there’s no substance beyond you’re giving, right, right. So the so let’s talk about i want to take a cold pill that back little bit. Because i think a lot of the fear of asking people to do more comes some of the fear of asking in general, especially asking for money. You know, fund-raising is not a dirty word. And i know so many professionals and leaders. In the business of consultants, talk about how it’s not a dirty word, but i kind of tied into the relationship side of things in the sense that when you’re asking for money from somebody, if it’s devoid, if it’s void of a relationship, right, if we’re just asking and you’re dialing for dollars it’s, it’s, it’s taking the relationship out of it and it’s just making us and no one enjoys all transactions for that and no one loves that no one likes to do that that’s terrible when there’s a real relationship in that leads to money it’s beautiful and obviously you can hear the correlation between like sex and relationships. If it’s just mechanical and there’s no relationship behind it, it may be fun. You may get the gift let’s not underestimate great, but but my point is this is probably not going to be a sustainable long term strategy. You’re not going to get somebody that may give you one time, but it’s not going to be a capacity gift. They could probably give you a lot more than what they’re giving you and you’re and it’s not like there’s any relationship behind it, so if you’re if you’re going to go after those easy shots like that, then you might get lucky, right? Teo? But but in the end of the day, if you if you develop a real relationship than the asking for money, is the exact opposite of a negative experience is the most powerful, empowering, beautiful next up in that relationship that makes people go? Yes, i’m i’m in this i’m in this relationship, i’m in it for the long haul. So it’s it’s kind of it’s kind of that double edge sword where fund-raising could either be a terrible, terrible experience, transaction transaction, a wallet with legs, right? Yeah, you know, it’s the sex appeal of just the fact that they have money versus somebody who’s, a partner partner in the cause and he’s excited about the vision and wants to see that succeed and right on dh wants to do more than just give exactly you’re not going to know that until you start asking, even if it’s just give it’s done in the context of i am partnering with you and the way i’m doing, doing my share is by giving you money because if you’re going to be on the ground drilling wells or curing our ending malaria deaths or, you know, providing needs for special needs children, i’m not as a donor, i may not be the expert on how to do that, but i know if i give you money and i trust the experts, it will get done and that’s fine, they built, they’ll become a partner in dollar and that’s fine, but it’s not a transaction, it’s more than that because they they are bought into the vision of the organization, all right, on a part of getting people to buy in and having them feel insiders is sharing the occasional downside failure. Yes, i’ve seen i’ve seen the good, bad and the ugly on this. I’ve seen organizations that are afraid to share information with their donors on day worrying about it. It’ll burn relationship, and those tend to be the relationships that were never strong to begin with. But the there are wonderful examples of how failure or you know where something did not work and it may not be, you know, gross of, you know, abuse or are you no mistrust think some things just don’t work and you know you put your your organization on the line, you try big things and it doesn’t pan out it’s a wonderful opportunity to deepen the relationships. Okay, i’ll give you ah, quick story example, i was in scott harrison who’s, a ceo and founder of charity water in his office, and he was telling me about early on and charity water before it was like, the very sexy, very sexy that, like what it is today hey told me early early on, he had a couple people on staff on payroll, they were doing their first projects, and they were going to go by that it belly up, they did not have the funds for payroll, they they were really desperate, and scott told me that he sent out a number of, like, blow, you know, emails to people who are in his periphery, you know, just to these donors and basically say, like, i need help, i need help, we’re in trouble, we’re doing great work, it wasn’t just like, you know, bail us out was like, we’re doing amazing work, but we’re in trouble. And one individual guy named michael birch, who was the who’s, a tech entrepreneur hey was the founder of bebo, which is a british base like social network from the nineties, like i bought by, i think, a well for eight hundred million dollars and he’s done not numerous projects that also brought in a lot of money, but here was a guy, michael birch on dh. He responded to scott and said, i’m happy to meet next time i’m in the new york area, i think he was in san francisco and he meets with with scott and scott in-kind of bears, a soul tells, tells him everything going on and, you know, they’re doing great work, but it’s just not catching on. They’re breaking their teeth and it’s just not happening, and michael birch gives him some recommendations gives him some advice, and then he says, i’ll see what i can do, you know, as faras giving you a little help, so he goes home. I don’t know how many days it was, you know, whatever was in the story that scott told me, but scott told me that he was sleeping in bed and his phone went off. I know texts or phone call, but was from michael birch and say, he said i sent you some money. I’m wiring it to your account. I hope it helps, and skye trembling opens up his bank account and there’s, a one million dollar gift that was sent from michael birch to charity water. And that was that trust that michael had, and he was really kind of like the one of the first major donors that they had that kind of went all in on them. He was somebody after hearing the troubles and tribulations, but was bought into scott harrison, who is, you know, the personality, come on, the mission that he stands behind and said, this is something i want to support, and they turn that negative in a tremendous partnership into this day michael and his wife are huge supporters of charity water. Everybody is not perfect in ceo land. You talk a little about flawed characters. Yeah, because because with this natural, you know, things don’t always go perfectly. We might even make mistakes. I mean, that that was not a mistake, that scott sure that’s got made, but but things don’t always go perfectly, and we know that from our personal relationship characters in history succeed. Yeah, i mean, so we all know this from our own personalized ships, you know, sometimes you date somebody, it doesn’t work out, and it goes down in flames, sometimes amicable, sometimes it’s definitely not their, you know, whatever it is, whether it’s dating marriage were human rights. It’s the human condition um so in the nonprofit world it’s true as well, we don’t have, you know, perfect relationships, and there are times where you butt heads with a person that you’re involved with a lay leader of volunteering your organization, and you might no longer be the right person to have that relation with them might be somebody else. It might be something that you can work with them and see through tio, but the communication and like any relationship and i talk about in the book about commune importance of communication, you can either work through it or if it’s, you’re not the right person to either find somebody else. If they are bought into the cause, if if it’s the cause they care about, they might be ableto be kind of handed off to somebody else. And if it’s destructive, which sometimes, you know, a fraction of the small fraction of the relations are and it’s not in the best interest of the organization for them to be aligned with his lay leader donor evan, if they give a lot of money and it could hurt the organization, you gotta cut your losses and pull out so there’s. Absolutely. Ah, whole spectrum on relationships and how you handle them. Depending on what’s the best interest of the organization. We’re gonna leave it there. The book is date. Your donors did your donor dot com and you’ll find jonah he’s at jonah helper. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Congratulations again on the book. Oh, thank you for having me next week. Continuing this theme with your intentional stewardship plan. If you missed any part of too today’s show i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio red jersey piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com and tell us credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Durney dahna may slash tony tell us our creative producer is claire miree family boats in the line producer producer. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. 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