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Nonprofit Radio for February 2, 2018: Your Donor Experience

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My Guest:

Brian Lauterbach: Your Donor Experience

What are you putting your donors through? How do they feel about it? What can you do to make it better? Brian Lauterbach is with Network for Good and he walks us through what works.

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s ground hog day. Thanks, tony fail emerges and gives us his prediction for winter today also, this is show number three hundred seventy five on our way to four hundred, which will be in july three seventy five today we have a new affiliate station w c r s fm, columbus, ohio central ohio’s community radio station at ninety two point seven and ninety eight point three fm welcome to the affiliate family w c r s so glad to have you affections to those affiliate listeners. I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into a pure a phobia if you told me that forever after and eternity you’d miss today’s, show your donor experience. What are you putting your donor’s through? How do they feel about it? What can you do to make it better? Brian lauterbach is with networks for good and he walks us through what works. Tony’s take two, know when to pull out. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers regular sepa is dot com tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us it’s my pleasure to welcome brian latto back to the show. He is vice president of programs, impact and sustainability that’s, a big portfolio at network for good. Leading a national team of consultants, he’s worked as a professional fundraiser and consultant for a hundred plus non-profits over twenty years, he’s talked fund-raising and non-profit management at george washington university, indiana university and wayne state university. Midwestern boy he’s at b r lauterbach. They’re at network for good dot com, where f l r is spelled out, and they’re at network for good, where number four is the arabic number. You don’t don’t use the roman numeral four, because then you’d be doing network ivy. Good, don’t do that. Use the arabic number four. Welcome brian latto back buy-in brian. Brian latto box. Okay, we don’t have brian. Hopefully he will call back in, but we also have in the studio lisa bonano, who is vice president of digital marketing for network fur. Good. And she and i will chat while, uh well, brian, hopefully calls back called back. Welcome. Thanks. Thanks for having us welcome. Thanks for being in the studio. Absolutely ghastly. I love that corporate us, your your team. Even though brian is not with us in spirit, you’re you bring him in by the problem. You’re all you’re all you’re all with us. Ok? Do we have brian back? Sam? No. Okay, um, we’re talking about dahna experience. You’re on the way. We thought it was going to brian toe open, but you’re the opener. Okay, i’ll take it so donorsearch spear ian ce uh, what were we talking about? So dinner experience is an interesting topic for us because we see so much commentary around consumer experience. Many reports many sets of thought leadership pieces and everyone in the consumer space is trying to understand why customer experience is so important. And now that everyone is on board with why now, it’s everyone’s trying to figure out the how so for us and i work for good, you know, we’re providers of donorsearch software we’re constantly thinking about how can we improve the donor experience for our non-profit customer? Okay? And we can learn from the customer experience on the corporate side exact. Hopefully you and brian. Well, we will be talking about not hopefully. Okay, let’s, try again, brian. You with us? I am. Excellent. There’s a nice, strong voice. Did you hear that wonderful introduction i gave you? I didn’t, didn’t. Okay, well, but i felt it from the cold hundred. Columbus. Ok. Ok. Well, first of all, you’re in columbus, ohio, where you didn’t hear that we have a brand new affiliate station in columbus, the u c r s fm joining us, joining us this week. First time that’s. Wonderful. Now is if i would have known that and i want to go, i would have yeah, they’re they’re not with us live though they know that’s very ambitious. It would have been cool. Yeah, they were on their schedule on thursdays at four p m they leave us in so that the filling station they’re not live, but now so columbus is columbus, you’re home. No, columbus is a inconvenient layover route from chicago. Okay, against the good buckeye people, but i’m just saying that. Yeah, and unforeseen way, les, thanks to the airline with nevertheless, here we are. Yeah. No, no, we’re yeah, i know we’re going to focus on the transit for a little bit. Don’t worry. We’ll get we’ll get to dahna experience there’s plenty of time together. So you were originating from where? Today? From chicago. Okay. And then there was a connecting flight that got delayed. Is that right? That what happened? Delayed, then cancelled on dh. Yeah, and then re booked for later time. I understand. And it wasn’t going to get you here in time. Okay? Don’t you know, they have to delay before they re book. You really? I mean, they have to delay before they cancel. You realize that, right? We have to be led on buy-in fifteen or twenty minute increments, and then then they’ll give you the ultimate the cancellation, which you are all you know, anticipating as you were being led on thinking, oh, fifteen or twenty minutes. But if you travel enough, it sounds like you do. You knew that you were just being led on it’s just a matter of time before they cancel. Absolutely. Did you hear lisa give a very cogent introduction tio to a donor experience? Did you hear that or no, i did. Yes, okay, always does. Okay, s o ah, anything you want to you want to add in the sort of overviewing we have a full hour together, obviously to go into details, but i thought you’d like to add to the overview of dahna experience, i think i think, you know, beyond the obvious and what networks for good is doing with technology and software and services for, you know, the one hundred twenty five thousand organizations that we touch each year. What we’ve been talking a lot internally about is how do we operationalize this donorsearch experience, but and from a top level, what we’re talking about is this concept of subscription giving the idea that, you know, not unlike content marketing description giving is what we’re what we’re discussing and how we can align information and inspirational content with the non-profit stakeholders to really engage them, not only just leading up to a gift, but what happens. After that gift is made because, as we all know where now the listeners know that you know, donorsearch retention certainly is something that we all should focus on habitually, but now coming up for air after giving tuesday in year, and we have to really think about it from the donor’s perspective, what is it that we can provide them and an ongoing and cost effective basis that wilkie remind them about not only what they did but the value and impact that it has not just about a fundraising goal, but really about the programmatic impact that it creates for the organisation that this donorsearch invested in? Okay, okay, there’s a lot in there, we’re going to have we have the hour to unpack it, and when we come back from this break, which i’m about to teo, enter, then we’ll get to this idea of the experience and howto had a planet for for your for your donors. So stay with us while we take this break. Pursuant the field guide for data driven fund-raising it is their newest resource on the listener landing page, which is now at tony dahna slash pursuant radio note, the new bentley the new custom bentley. Okay, tony dahna slash pursuant radio that’s their listener landing page. No surprise with this kind of content, this field field guide because the company is data driven and as where are we saying? Technology enabled, but focusing on the data the field guide, it is of a paper that will make your data less daunting so what’s in it they got five high level steps you can take to translate your business objectives into action. Real world case studies so you, khun benchmark and a worksheet with thought starters to help your team find the right focus and start to build this data driven culture that you you wantto you want to achieve it’s the field guide for data driven fund-raising at tony dahna em a slash pursuant radio. Now, let’s, go back to brian latto back and your donor experience. And so brian let’s let’s do what i what i pledged, how do you how do you think through this? In terms of a and you’re you’re you’re in a small midsize non-profit how do u plan what this donor experiences spectrum of activities and contacts and communications is going to look like? Yeah, i think first, what we have to do a small, emerging and midsize non-profits is embrace the reality that just because we’re tax exempt doesn’t mean we’re tech exempt the idea that because of our budget size, we can ignore the consumer behavior of companies like netflix and apple and google, and what they created and really institutionalized could not be further from the truth, of course, as small non-profits we have to figure out a way to replicate some of those things and embrace that consumer behavior that stage appropriate with are, you know, staff or lack thereof and certainly budget in time, our most precious asset. But it really begins with an understanding that you, as are we as a nonprofit organization or is a sector, cannot just be the lagging adopters of how to create an experience for not our consumers but our donors. And because those same consumers that are buying things on amazon subscribing the netflix, i’m getting new information about their movies and tv shows. Well, those guys are also our donors as well. So the idea that we can have this incongruous experience because, well, we’re a non profit organisation, could not. Be further from the reality. Yeah, we don’t like that. Yeah, yeah. That’s zoho that’s kind of a, you know, sort of a poverty mentality. We don’t mean it like that, right? I got to do something. Yeah. What about s o z explosive labbate what can we learn specifically from these high touch cos that you’re mentioning netflix, amazon were all engaged with them. We’re all getting their emails. We what? What? What specifically could be a couple of takeaways that that we can weaken gleaned from the corporate side? Yeah, the biggest thing i would think you know, whether you’re subscribing to a software or buying sweater or dog food online, the idea is what these companies do very well and what we was sector would be well served to embrace, let alone with our replicator. Is that the idea that when you buy something, these companies not only continue to remind you why you bought it and the value of that purchase, but they also want to make sure that you are satisfied with that purchase. So you will buy mohr by again. Upgrade your subscription. So the idea that you can buy something and the transaction is complete. Well, that may be true, but the relationship is just beginning. And so what? I think some of these, you know, larger companies, as you said, tony, all of us are kind of plugged into as consumers and buyers, we need to think about why they create this continuum of contact and activity and what i love about it. Most of them, especially my favorite, is netflix because they aren’t intrusive about their ongoing engagement. I get an email, i mean, sure, i’m sure it’s timed and based upon data and when they know i oktay now, but my point is that i always opened that because i get no more than two females a month from netflix that, you know, is highly visually engaging, low on written content and compels me to take an action which is, you know, watch this new show that that’s like the other show that you have been watching so it’s almost there, almost helping me use their product and exploit the functionality of you know, i get thes e mails, i get them from mm, hbo, i have their ah, hbo. Now i get them from amazon prime. I get them. From land’s end, you know, and i’m i’m in fact, i think i’m wearing a lance and sweater. Lisa, this is the lands and mock turtle. Thank you very much. Oh, yeah, she just said it was your mike on when she said looks great. So again, you look great. Thank you very much. Your lands and very well, ok keeper mike on way like her. Yeah, keeping michael um yeah, so, you know, and i’m a i mean, you know, i get thes e mails, and i sometimes i’m amazed at how interested i am in them voice is cracking like a thirteen year old interested, you know how often i read them? It’s it’s um, sometimes i sit back and, you know, it was like the fourth email this week, you know, from land’s end and i’m still opening it and reading the things and saying the same thing with the with the media ones i get because, well, you know, there was a sense of incredibly words help you do that because you were happy with your purchase and you you were made to feel good. You you, you you like wearing that sweater, and so you’re open to getting mohr information from in this case, land’s end because, um, you jump through the hoop and they jumped through yours well, and as you per said there, reminding me of the value i get and the satisfaction i get, you know, definitely worded communications. Lisa yeah, i wouldn’t pick up on some of that brian had had thrown out there about the word relationship, so even though we’re not using the word relationship that’s really what we’re describing here, right through these emails, through these touches they are, you know, in their their marketing code, building this relationship with you, unbeknownst to you right through through all these different communications and how they’re inviting brian to try a new a new piece of content or listened to a podcast or watch a movie and i think that’s one of the things we’re recognizing there’s only one podcast that people should be listening to and it’s this one it’s twenty martignetti non-profit in case you were confused, yes, in case there’s, any questions? So, you know, i know there are hundreds of thousands, but this should be when you’re down, you should be at the top. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, our our donors or definitely thinking about how do i build that relationship? I’m sorry, non-profits or thinking about how do i build that relationship with thes donor is much like on the consumer side, and i think the interesting new wrench in, um and the cycle is and i love for for, for brian even talk more about this guy he’s a lot of thoughts on this is that you have these new entrance, these new platforms, which you’re making it extremely easy for everyone to collect donors and b i’m sorry collectibe nations and be kind of fun raisers on behalf of non-profits they can set up a fundraising page very quickly for the causes that they love and invite all of their network of community in teo to make a donation on the b on behalf of the non-profit and then on the experience is so important, you know, teo, to reinforce, you know, the what what lisa just outlined for us is that you’re not going to get people to become committed advocates to your organization just by virtue of facilitating a filling provoc transact, you have to create a qualitative experience that reinforces not only the value of what they did, but the impact that it has, and when they can connect those two things value it, impact they they’re going to want to fly their flag, so to speak alongside yours and tell everyone that they court this organization, they’re proud of that. But then, as lisa suggested, they take that first and next action in terms of non-profit ask assi and start to do something for you on and on helping you raise money and spread awareness are two of the easiest things that certainly technology enables, but are the natural next thing’s a happy and committed donor for ought to do for your organization? I’d like to think this transactional mentality is a thing of the past, you know, and should be anachronistic by now, but but i think that a lot of non-profits it’s not, you know, they i feel like we got a gift and we’ll say thank you, and we’ll come back in the next cycle, whatever our next campaign is or what, whatever our next need is and that’s that’s antithetical to everything that you’re saying this transactional mentality needs to be a relationship mentality. Lisa, you know, at least we know we’re talking about relationships you need i mean, you wouldn’t just invite your parents over for thanksgiving dinner and then not talk to them again until christmas, you know, because that’s, your next campaign is to get them to come for christmas dinner. Oh, you know, maybe you should be going to them if you don’t have children, you should be going to them because you’re more mobile, but anyway, you know, so too much detail, but, yeah, i’m getting it, and we’re going to end up being my therapist by the end of this. And but, you know, in all fairness to the small organization and the chief, everything officer is out there that runs that you know, what it takes is blocking, tackling some time in your schedule to be able to not only think about or created experience, but deliver on it, it needs to be stage appropriate and aligned with your, you know, your constraints, not just your limited resources and, you know, as those small and even side’s non-profit organizations think about how to create that experience, well, they really need to think about the tools that they used there’s more and more options out there that can that can create, you know, automated e mails, autumn and automated tech messages that some of stuff that we do it now for good kind of the the phrase that lisa uses a lot, you know, when talking about this internally is, you know, set it and forget it, not that not forget it, because it’s not important, but you designed this experience and operationalized deployed with technology, and then you can evaluate it and make sure the metrics are lining with some of your bigger goals, not not necessarily financial but relationship goals and bridle the idea that your small non-profit that you can’t do this, you can’t afford not not this longer. And, you know, i know there’s, you know, some purists and traditionalists think about giving tuesday as this one and done phenomena. Well, maybe sometimes it is, but it doesn’t have to be, and it shouldn’t be because the number one thing that when i talked to, uh, non-profits throughout the country is that they’re they’re so focused on the ask and getting that done and getting it out, they forget that the ask or getting that gift is the first step in a series of many steps that you need to not only create an experience, but two to begin a relationship. Brian zoho i was just in north carolina earlier this week talking about two hundred non-profits and all these town halls and learned that not many of them has have even had the opportunity two thank all they’re giving tuesday donors and their december thirty first donor. And so but what? We need to understand that thanking someone for a gift does not inexperienced create yeah, okay, that’s a irs compliance thing, you know, thank you for your tax deductible give no good services were exchanged, blah, blah, blah, but and that isn’t the achievement. The achievement is what’s next, how do you communicate what they did and how and why, how it creates impact for the organization? Okay, let’s, let’s, start diving into some detail now, i think we’ve spent enough time with the motivation can we can we agree that segmentation of your your donor community is essential to a za basis of what we’re talking about? Being able to do without a doubt? Ok, but it depends on how well we’re going to get you up. So what? What should we be? What should be be segmenting by what? What? What do we want to learn from from the transaction that will help us in the really build the relationship? Yeah, so i would say, you know what? How did the gift come to you? Right? So not so much the channel. Like, was it online or in the mail, but rather what was the vehicle that compelled someone to give? And so, you know, in a in a very basic construct of segmentation, you know, a non donor-centric attendee versus a donor, someone that has current or last giving history, those air three distinct segments that all has nuanced, uh, information metoo and so a cz well, as you know, the business or the foundation, because what often happens thiss time of year when people think about you no acknowledgement letters, it’s, basically, they dump all the data into the spreadsheet, or if there are hopefully some sort of donor management system, uh and then spit out the receipts and it’s this monolithic message that doesn’t doesn’t acknowledge why someone are from where someone case, because i think all of this, as practitioners would agree that someone who came to an event that you hosted versus someone that gave on giving tuesday had a different point of entry experience with your organization and air go needs to be that needs to be acknowledged and dumping them all into one funnel and hoping for the best isn’t going to do that isn’t going to do the job, okay, so we’re looking at segmenting by, you know, we want to learn what the person gave to ah programmatically, basically where they came from, right? How did they find us and what they’re what their interests are, perhaps beyond what they gave to sew that so that we can we can focus our communications to them a marry my lisa, my on the right amount, right track? You’re exactly right. I s exactly right, not even just the right track for the needle a little bit more say, you know, we kind of talked about how there’s so many parallels obviously i’m head of marketing so there’s, so many parallels in what would you do on the marketing on the for-profit side and what we’re encouraging non-profits to do when it comes. To dahna retain retention, you know their revenue line is thes these donors making making contributions? Ditigal must think like, how do i get that recurring? How do i create the subscription model? How do i get in front of these donors and connect to them in the way they want to be connected? Teo much like how brian said he loves being connected that twice twice a month cadence with a with a message about what toe reader or watch next so it’s knowing why that donor is giving to you what is drawing to them, drawing them to your organization that you can then capitalize on was it that specific program that you’re offering to teo, you know, malnourished children? Is that the program you’re offering over here to do to do this, that the other knowing what’s drawing them and connecting them to your organization is literally the foundation for building that relationship and ultimately building community and look at the corporate analogies that we were talking about earlier, you know, why is amazon stock at twelve hundred dollars a share and continuing to grow? Because you know the messages we get from them? Well, other people who into interested in what you purchased were interested in these other things also related connecting point related to yes, real connection to what drew you in you might also be interesting these things so the analog we have these other programs that may be of interest to you because of what you gave to last year, that zaveri basic, but that right and that’s, why segmenting and having having a tool at your disposal so you can segment those donors in a line likes with likes to say the’s owners all came in because they care about this type of program and that’s what they’re that’s their connection to this non-profit versus this segment that might have a different reason, a different draw to the non-profit that that allows a non-profit to message very specifically and deliberately to those segments in a more congress, in and measured way. And so often, i mean, brian knows is even better than the most so often when you talk to non-profits they barely have the infrastructure that they need to support the bare basics, like he was saying thank you for your donation is not even like it’s, not even a step. Up from from the bare basics of building that community and those relationships, brian, anything you want to add? Yeah, i think the other thing is, while segmentation is optimal, consistency is essential. And ah, you know, if an organization has the capacity and the wherewithal of technology to do some basic segment, by all means, my gosh, do it because it improves results, but for those that can’t you got to put a stake in the ground and at least create an experience that presumes that organization or excuse me donorsearch port your organization not because they wanted a tax receipt, but because they care about what you do. You know, i think what non-profits really need to think hard and long about is this, you know, that i believe donors don’t give to hear organization they give through it. And as soon as you embrace that, this idea that donors are outsourcing their desire for public good and impact in their community, teo you the non-profit because you’re set up to do it, that suddenly changes the paradigm and should change the communication dynamic to one of thank you to one of accountability and ongoing accountability. Okay, so that’s a no that’s your your message you’re suggesting consistency? Yeah, murcott consistency makes things easier to measure if you have apples to apples. If you’re creating the same experience for every donor let’s say that gives online, you know that they’re gonna receive one two and three at these intervals, then you khun then if you implement that with consistency, you khun start to measure its efficacy. Okay, okay, hold that we’re going to continue their we’ll take another break standby. We’re gonna see piela i love this testimonial that that they have. This is my first year and we’re growing non-profit weinger cpas was completely attentive and gave the impression as if they were right next door when handling our review engagement. Even though we’re in a different state, they made me feel like we were the only client they had blah, blah, blah gushing, gushing, amazing, effusive praise all while feeling supported and genuinely cared for in the process. Endquote supported and genuinely cared for that’s from cps. Right? So i’m is like you. Would you expect that from something like lift or uber, or curb or grab or ola and allies for our moon by listener? We have we actually have a live listener in mumbai and we often having from delhi. So i added, i had a lot to that. You know, these air sepa is they’re they’re not bellman there, not front desk associates agents, really, but associates, if you like concierges elevator operators, i’d like to stay in classic hotels, housekeepers, restaurant managers. Are they servers or bus boys? No, no thiss gushing praise is for cps on that bike, by the way, and that testimonial was from a small cancer research non-profit on the east coast. So we’re not just talking big non-profits taking advantage of of wagner cpas. This was small organization. Check them out. Witness cps, dot com. And then, you know, do what i always advocate. Pick up the phone, give them a call, see if it works. And the person you want to talk to is the partner you eat. Which tomb? You touched him. You know him. Because he’s been on the show twice. He’s he’s. The first time he was on, he had this genius idea. You’re nine, ninety as a marketing tool. Who would think of that? That this ubiquitous nine. Ninety that’s on guide. Star and it’s, your your attorney, general’s office and it’s ah, charity navigator. If you’re bigger or ge, use it as a marketing tool. Use the narrative space in there to promote your your work. Don’tjust recite from your from your from your statement of inc. You know, use it more smartly. That’s yeats. Ok, so wagner, cps dot com talk to you coached him he’s been a guest, you know, he’s bona fide. Totally legit. The jetta means more than legit he’s brilliant regular cps dot com okay, now, time for tony steak too. You gotta know when to pull out of a bad donorsearch relationship we’re talking about dahna relationships today i was on a cruise thiss one idea came from st so while i was in st kitts, i got stimulated and i started to think about pulling out. Now what we’re talking about, you could just have to watch the video to get to learn see what got me thinking, but you don’t want to pull a push a bad position with a donor if if this if the if the signals are negative, you know they’re not returning your calls they give, but they give considerably less than you’re always asking. They’re not turning out for events despite repeated invitations. These air all signals that it’s a bad relationship. It’s. Well, it’s it’s, not a growing relationship, and you need to spend your valuable time cultivating. Face-to-face you know, this is your face-to-face cultivation time, someone who’s going to be more forthcoming for you. There are other ways to cultivate the donors that are not forthcoming, but in terms of your face-to-face relationship, you know, major gift time, you have to move on when when this the signals are negative from your donors and that is tony’s take two now, let’s, go back, teo well, before we go back to brian, we’ve got to do the live listener love, and we have lots of live listeners live listener loves going out tio tacoma, washington, say los angeles, california, woonsocket, rhode island, new york, new york multiple we got multiple new york, new york woodbridge, woodbridge i told you, you have to identify yourself, you’re you’re upsetting me. Woodbridge, new jersey. You’re so consistent listening. I want to know who you are. Please, please. I’m gonna stop shutting you out now. I wouldn’t do that. But the live lister love is going out to woodbridge in jersey. Yes. Tampa, florida. Uh, let’s. Go abroad, germany. Good dog, orilla canada. Is it? Orilla looks like a really canada welcome live. Listen, love there. We’ve got tehran, iran, we’ve got as i said, mumbai, india. Andi got sent to cruise the tenor teeth in spain when it started the live listen, love always goes out and on the heels of that has to go the affiliate affections to our way it supposed be podcast pleasantries. What would do the affiliate affections? First to our affiliate station listeners throughout the country dozens of stations carrying the show affections to those listening on their and their local am and fm stations. And, of course, we again. Welcome to the family. W crs in columbus, ohio, were brian’s calling from and the podcast pleasantries to the over twelve thousand listeners on the podcast listening on your own schedule pleasantries to you. So glad that you are with us. You are the book of our audience. And i thank you for being with us pleasantries to the podcast listeners. Now, let’s, go back to buy-in brian latto back and lisa padano talking about your donor experience. Okay, brian, anything else you can flush out detail wise about consistency, the consistency in those messaging? Yeah, i think it comes down to what it is that you’re going to measure because you know the old adage you can’t manage what you can’t measure, so you know, some of the things while obviously, the ultimate goal is to get a second gift or renewal at the time of an appeal. But you know, some of things that you need to be looking at under the hood to inform or you have to inform whether or not your experience is a good one is you gotta look at open rates, you gotta look at, click through rate and shares on social media, and my experience has been that, you know, there are so many digital tools out there that you can use to operationalize, let alone create your donor experience. But for those of us that our resource constraints you know, i think the basic donorsearch panitch mint system that can help you deploy emails but then also integrates ah, your facebook and your website. If you could make those things work, you’re going to be able to make a donor experience work. But the key thing as we talked about before the break is you have to be able to measure it, and measurement means consistent execution, and this is something that should be thought through. This donor experience by the organization, and not necessarily just the talent and tenacity of the fundraiser that’s employed by the organization. Okay, you know what, brian? Hold on, you know, it’s exactly right? I mean, i’m thinking about all the different calculators that not network for good has to literally walk a non-profit through the different metrics they should be thinking about, they’re donorsearch tension rate, their return on investment, if they’re spending certain amount of money on on a particular campaign, what is it bringing in? So we have we have brought kind of forward these metrics that they’re not intuitive to non-profits to say these air something’s, the highest level you should be paying attention to and then from that you can and they okay, how do i actually operationalize it into my non-profit brian’s, exactly, right? This is not a fundraisers problem to be solved it so isolating when non-profit seeing the way it is a non-profits problem to solve how do we operationally think about the money we need to bring in to support the programs you wantto we want to serve and that and carry out our mission? So bye by knowing what we’re doing so, it’s not just spaghetti up on the wall, let’s see what sticks thinking, you know, count, count, count, let six and be like, oh, yeah, we got ten threads upon the wall versus for the last time. So knowing what you’re aiming for being more more targeted with that segmentation being consistent and thought and and measurement you can only win, give me an idea of some of the things that we should analytics that we should be looking at. Yeah, there are a few, you know, i mentioned dahna retention rate. So how many of your donors are coming back repeatedly your year after year? Or ask after ask you want to be looking at your return on campaigns of your spending a certain amount of money for a direct mail drop? How much are you getting in return? Is it above a dollar? You know, you pay a dollar, get a dollar, you’re at least break even. You’re not you’re not losing money so there’s air, you know, to at the highest level. And then there were other ones, like brian was mentioning even a click through rate. You know how many of your e mails are going through what’s the hygiene of your of your donor list, you know, are you sending emails and they’re they’re bouncing or their hard bouncing, you know you need to be cleaning up that the database, otherwise the message is never going to be reached. So it’s, how many people are being reached are the clicking through? Are they is your is a language for which your packaging, that message appealing and that’s measured through that click through rate? Are they clicking the bait right? Are they? Are they following through on your ask so these are also, yeah, that everyone should should take note of that for my experiences of annual fund warrior for small and large organizations alike when it comes to donor experience, if you are getting a fifty percent click through rate on your engagement and retention emails, you are ninety percent more likely o r ninety times more likely rather to get a second gift within the same fiscal year, because what that fifty percent click through rate means is that you’re delivering the relevant content at an appropriate frequency that is peeking their interest. And if you’re doing that right, that means that you have someone that’s engaged and wants to consume the information that you’re putting out, and that should not stop any non-profit from asking again because it’s, an engaged enthusiastic on pre advocate donor-centric get a second gift, and the reason why that’s hugely important is there’s a lot of talk and commentary around the average of retention rate is what forty five percent or something make like that bryant yet the cost per acquisition is so high, so just like on the consumer side and the for-profit side it’s much more cost effective to retain a customer or donor-centric require new one. I’ve had lots of lots of guests say that exact same thing, i think the retention baizman like twenty five or thirty percent on dh, i’ve had many guests emphasized that, and as you said, you know, the cost of the cost of acquisition is so much higher than been retaining and and and it’s, you know, a relationship you don’t want. We’re trying to build relationships, you don’t want people dropping off that’s, this’s action just bad, bad for business. Yeah, and it just doesn’t feel good, you know? It is transactional, right? Right. Um okay. Let’s sum let’s. Just switch gears a little bit about some examples. Brian, you got you got a maybe a small midsize non-profit example, you khun, you can share with us of someone that improved. You know, the analytics improved fund-raising improved, etcetera. Yeah. One of my new favorite organizations called one pulse. They’re based its just outside of los angeles. Actually met the founder and executive director of twenty something year old in a coffee shop. When i was out there, unconference and anyways, fast forward gave him, you know, the technology stack from that good that he needed. And not only did he increase the number of donors that he had by about two hundred percent he’s up to about, you know, four hundred, donors now, but the major headline is that of those four hundred, you know, more than three hundred of them gave again. And then about one hundred fifty of them gave more than they did last year. And so when we unpack that this guy’s, the classic chief everything officer it’s one guy who has more passion than he does. Ah, grass of his, you know, time constraints and makes it all happen. He made it all happen by simply exploiting the functionality of technology, and that is setting up an email drip campaign that has a simple and very compelling image in it and a clever subject line in less than fifty words of content that that reminded a donor what the organization is doing every month, but also tells them the impact of what their support meant to the organization as relates to delivering, executing and scaling programs. And to me, it doesn’t get much better than that on dh it all comes down to, you know, intentionality and leveraging the existing functionality of his, you know, small but mighty software back, yeah, lisa yeah, well, i was just going to say a cz brian was talking. I was literally thinking about ah, conversation i was having with one of our product people. We were not is here having this conversation around, you know, the thought leadership of dahna experience, why it’s important? You know, we were living and breathing it and how we think about our product. We’re iterating on our product design all the time in this agile way of how is the donor touching this donor form? How are they choosing to click this button over this button? How would the font appear over this background versus this background? These of the thoughts and questions were talking about internally and never forget all the time, so we can always serve up that best tool and solution for our non-profits so they can then in and have the best experience for for their donors and bringing the most the most funding. So i think that it’s, it’s, it’s not just, you know, as you know, sitting here talking and, you know, it’s it’s a living, breathing, exactly. We’re living and breathing, and we’re kind of taking our own advice and thinking about how can we turn around this superior product that is putting donorsearch mirian ce kind of frontal lobe? Yeah, so we so where we need to encourage hyre non-profits to listeners to be very intentional and really and also a lot of testing i mean, it could be, you know, you may you may just have the wherewithal to do just simple abie testing one email, subject line versus another email subject line, right? Just not to be overly complex exactly right, but a lot of a lot. Of intention has to go into it, you know, the sort of slapdash thing that’s put together by an intern, you know, it doesn’t really know the organization that, well, it’s, you’re going to get returns consistent with the effort and thought that an intentionality that goes into it. Okay, all right, let’s, take our our last break. Lisa. Brian, if you would stand by for me, tell us credit card and payment processing, you could check out their video at tony dahna slash tony tell us explains the process of how business has switched to tell us and how you the non-profit that referred the business gets fifty percent of the revenue from the from the from all the transactions. Now this is transactional is talking about credit card transactions and fees and as tell us, earns fees from the companies that you refer, you get fifty percent of what they earn that simple. Okay, also, because you’re non-profit radio listener, if tello’s cannot reduce their credit card processing fees, then they’re going to send you two hundred fifty dollars. That part, that two hundred fifty dollars bonus is only for non-profit radio listeners. But i gotta tell you, it’s, probably not likely because odds are tell us is going to be able to save the money and that’s going to encourage the business to switch over, to tell us and then forget the two hundred fifty dollars, you’ve got a indefinite revenue stream because as that company processes credit card transactions, you are getting fifty percent of the revenue that tello’s earns from all those transactions indefinitely tell us, has one hundred percent satisfaction rate, so those businesses are not going to be leaving long tail passive revenue for you. Check it out, tony dahna em a slash tony, tell us. Thank you very much. Brian and lisa stood by. You stood by studiously. Alright, you’re not doing backchannel communications. Are you? Every every sponsor’s name tony. Oh, the girls are yeah. Are we talking about brandon? I was talking about consistency. We’re talking about message. I’m liking it. Tony dahna slash. We’re gonna have to come up with something for ah networked for good. We’re going to be on board. Where? There’s a lot to say about that coming up in the future. Future? Um, like march time. So yeah, i mean consistency branding, messaging right, you got it by learning something from seven and half years of listening to experts. Okay, um, you’re good student let’s. See? Thank you. Is that it? The not mentor? Not qualified to be a mentor. Coach. Student. Okay, like freshmen neo-sage thank you very much. A few more years, right? Shut off the mike. Now that we’ve had enough of her off, i was let’s. Go back to the lands and shirts like greater color. Like that part better. Yes. All right. So, brian, you’re not feeling left out there, are you, brian? No, not at all. Okay, you’re supposed to be here. We should. We should. I just wanna make this explicit met. Maybe i was probably understood early on, but you were supposed to be here. That was the whole point. You’re trying to get here in the studio, so we didn’t want you, but, you know, by phone is second. Yeah. Let’s. Talk about experience, right? Yeah. You’re years of experience. Customer experience today was not good. Yeah. That’s. That’s. Correct. Okay, i’m not going to ask you which which airlines you’re gonna fly, but you can tweet them. You know that you network for good has a lot of followers don’t. You probably didn’t want the corporate. Well, i know if it was the corporate card, if you have some degree of corporate sabat dissatisfaction that the the other vice president couldn’t get here, right? Okay, it was the corporate card. Maybe network for good should be tweeting. I don’t know who was we won’t say. All right, we only with a deposit of shout outs here. Um, okay, let’s, switch gears a little bit. Brian, i’m interested in some trends that you might be seeing emerging since we’re in the early stages of twenty eighteen. What what are you seeing coming on the horizon this year and beyond? Yeah, so a couple of things, i think the first is a real desire to, uh, automate fund-raising activities that all of this you’re not, you know, replace humans and, you know, the old fashioned stuff that works the best. But, you know, kind of what i was saying earlier, the senate forget it. Let’s design and experience and let’s put it in motion and watch it work for us, you know, kind of like engagement while we sleep. You are well non-profits we don’t upleaf we focus on delivering program, but you get what i’m saying, so that is one of the, i think, quickly growing emerging trends and feast out there, the sector and that is, what can we do to automate ous much of this experience so that we don’t have to be, you know, conjuring up emails every week and creating bliss, deploying them and testing subject line? Yes, but that that, uh the idea is, what do we do to create an experience that we think is the first and best generation and deploy it starts a man to measure it, you know? So what, we’re really keen from ten thousand feet is moving beyond donor-centric mint and really starting to talk about donor it’s one thing to make sure you have all your names and gift amounts and addresses in a cr m r donor-centric management system that’s great, but that that now is kind of like the most functional basics of fund-raising now you need to expand the aperture and say, well, what can we do to actually engage our donors with technology and not just doing it through, you know, likes and follows on facebook? But what do we do to automate some of those? Yeah, because it is. How do we make that accessible to small organizations that deposed tio? Very large ones that would buy, you know, hub spot for marquette owes or, you know, all those big, huge automation. And and so what we see is increased chadband interest and experimentation with automation of as much of the fund-raising function beginning with communication is possible. And automation does not have to sacrifice personalization that, you know, we just had it. Pardon me, brian. What you say got no gosh, no. Okay. Good. I got you. Okay. Yeah, we just had i just had a me sample ward on ceo of inten, our social media contributor last week. E-giving you know, very much the same sort of future. Look, andi, she explained how in ten of an organization that has an office in portland, oregon, but also has employees virtually uses automation toe run their office and to maintain their membership of, like, forty thousand or so. You know what? Maybe the membership is not big, but their constituencies, like forty five thousand, something personalization is definitely i mean, this is your right, brian. We’re past you. Know, get off spreadsheets moved to a crn now use that cr m segment and you don’t have to sacrifice personalization, lisa’s, champion jumper the bitter no, i was just going to say, you know, we we we cast forward it’s interesting because the the ese for which it is to give has changed, and platforms like facebook, among others, have completely changed that dynamic and is actually creating an interesting situation for non-profits because in one breath, you want to say how lovely all this money is coming in twenty five bucks at the clip from all these different directions, my revenue line is growing, but then when you dig a little deeper and it’s like, but are you able to build a community with those folks, are you able to get them to become the subscription? Geever exgagement true engagement it’s a lot harder for these non-profits to think about how do i turn that transactional giver? Because maybe tony you gave cause? Bryan asked you, right? But you don’t have a connection to my non-profit you know, i have to go back to you, tony, and say, hey, how can i build a relationship with you? How? Can i engage you, tony, and thread you into what i am doing over here into my mission? So you feel compelled to give on your own whether brian asked or not? So that kind of yeah, no, please go point it comes into, uh donorsearch mirian there’s also relationship between donor experience and board participation and fund-raising now we all probably accept as no one joins the board so they can ask their friends and family for money. But if staff does it, writing creek, that culture of philanthropy than and equipped trained board’s view it, then something good happens. But my point here is my experiences sends that boardmember zehr, reticent to ask their friends, come for money because non-profits are habitually poor at creating an experience that makes that boardmember feel proud and that’s not to say that boardmember is ashamed of the organization, but what the boardmember doesn’t want is that that donor that she or he or say bring to the table gets dropped into a you know, a same spray funnel of getting his letters, reports and every every invitation, uh, any type of event that that non-profits having the boardmember is very conscious. Of what experience that they want, or that they realized that that friends, family and co worker will have, as a result, e-giving to that organization. And so if if non-profits out there, if you want more board members to participate fund-raising you’ve got to create an experience for donors that raise rises to the level of satisfaction and pride of every one of your board members, so they’re feel proud. Teo asked their friends for money and have their friends be donors of to your organization and what brian was saying of having a solution that is a little set it and forget it. It’s this idea that you can have a tool that embeds within the tool all these best practices because at the end of the day, the non-profit doesn’t want to be thinking about did i bring in that hundred dollars that are bringing that thousand dollars in here? I mark right that’s not why they’re there that some what’s motivating them that’s, that’s like a means baizman end. So the tools that are stepping up to solve this problem are the ones that said, hey, you know what? We get that, right? We’re putting embedded. Best practices into this tool, so you’re going to focus on other things, but still trying to bring in that money and create that relationship in the most effective, meaningful way, because that’s what’s going to propel your non-profit for-profit forward and help you grow. Brian, i love that connection that you made between your donor experience and bored participation that’s a real that’s a connection i’ve never heard before on and i think it’s significant, and it and that could be a great topic for aboard conversation. Bored ceo, senior fundraiser conversation are you satisfied with the experience? I mean, it was some riel introspection that could be a difficult conversation, but one that’s important to have. Brian, i have to i brian brian, i got a limit. You we got, like, thirty seconds left. So this is your wrap up that you and then i’m gonna i’m gonna shut you off. So go but twenty eight seconds got it. So number one things that each and every non-profit should be doing this year is putting a stake in the ground and coming up with their first iteration of a donor experience. Um and keep it simple and keep it cost. Okay, you can animate email your website and facebook together you are catapulted yourself into a realm of hyre functionality that will help you raise more money. We got to leave it there. Brian lauterbach, vice president of programs, impact and sustainability and network for good lisa banana, vice president, digital marketing network for good they’re both network for good dot com where the forest spelled out lisa brian, thank you so much. Thanks. Such a pleasure. Thank you. My pleasure. Next week, joe garrick and your online giving plan i think you’re going to see some threads continue from this week. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for smaller midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio whether cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps, dot com and tell his credit card in payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dot, m a slash tony tell us he still loves us, tony, that i’m a bit lise or creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer show social media is by the excellent susan chavez on our music is by this very cool. Scott steiner, brooklyn with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? 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Nonprofit Radio for September 22, 2017: Robertson v. Princeton

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My Guest:

Doug White: Robertson v. Princeton

Doug White is the author of “Abusing Donor Intent: The Robertson Family’s Epic Lawsuit Against Princeton University.” He returns to tell how trust eroded between donor and university, and a $35 million gift from 1961 ended in a messy lawsuit. He’s got lots of lessons to share to help you avoid the same. (Originally aired May 9, 2014)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Hey, you could catch maria simple on msnbc this weekend. She’s going to be on your business with j j ramberg on sunday at seven thirty a m eastern, so check out our prospect research contributor maria simple on msnbc sunday morning. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with care. Arai assis, if you wormed in with the idea that you missed today’s show robertson v princeton doug white is author of the book abusing donor intent, the robertson family’s epic lawsuit against princeton university. He returns to the show to tell us how trust eroded between donor and university and a thirty five million dollars gift from nineteen, sixty one ended in a messy lawsuit. You’ve got lots of lessons to share to help you avoid the same and that originally aired on may ninth twenty fourteen on tony’s take two five minute pg marketing we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by wagner, cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not. A business you’re non-profit apple owes accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com here is doug white with robertson v princeton first piece. I am very glad to welcome back to the show and back to the studio. Doug wait, author, professor, advisor to non-profits and philanthropists he’s on the faculty in the masters in fund-raising program at columbia university. Abusing donorsearch intent is his fourth book. You’ll find him at doug white dot net. Welcome back, doug. Wait. It’s, good to be back and to see you again. I have to ask the question. That’s on everybody’s mind though. Cerebral ischemia. What is that? That’s? A well, that this week that’s that’s. What? I’ll suffer if i find out that someone had not heard this week’s show a cerebral it’s a form of a stroke ice since kenya’s had a sense that’s what? It was what i wanted to ask you, being an attorney and all. You probably come up with all of these terms. Yeah, well, we make the well back. When i was practicing law now we would make these things. Up there the way were we would defend against people who had made them up as if the slip and fall in aisle seven on the relish that’s that caused it, and an approximate cause of the ischemia twelve years later, that that was there was actually a cause and effect relationship and that’s what we were trying to defeat it’s great to see things haven’t changed and that’s actually kind of a segue way to a lawsuit story. I don’t know, i’m sure that’s true and that’s why i don’t practice law any longer because i was not interested in the relish bill in aisle seven, but this lawsuit that we’re going to talk about is a lot more meaningful than then slip and falls and trips and falls. You you spend your a lot of time thinking about ethics and fund-raising last time you were on, we were talking about your book around ethics, and this is, uh, donorsearch trust and loyalty. How were all these? How are all these related in your in your professorial authorship? Mind? Well, someone might accuse me of having a cerebral something else because of all of the mishmash that goes on. In my head on this stuff. But i won’t. But really, i think that there’s a lot to think about in the nonprofit world that we don’t otherwise think about, we think about fund-raising and we think about boards and all of those things are important, but i’m tryingto get a handle on what society does with its non-profit sector and how the non-profit sector responds back, and so it takes me to these corners that are really weird, and in this particular case, it took me to a story that had something to do with trust and a lot of money and a huge university. And the question is, how could someone accuse princeton of doing something so egregious and that’s? Not an easy question? Answer. In fact, when i went into this story, i didn’t think princeton was really all that guilty of anything, uh, ok, because, uh, as i read through the book, i sensed you trying to be objective. But in the end, i was left with the sense that you felt princeton really had wronged this. The robertson family. You want to tell the end right now? I’m trying to get people to buy the book here in the story. There you go there. Is going to see oil or alert? We only have an hour together. There’s lots of information that people going by the book around because you were just going to school is going to touch the were scratching the surface that’s in a mere hour. The book is very well worth buying. Nine just kind of yes, i know, but now that was the that was okay, we’ll get into the details of that, but i think it’s sort of a tease, you know, that is that was kind of what i was left with, and two thousand six i had finished the book called charity on trial and was interviewed on television station in washington, and somebody brought up the princeton case because i had written about it a little bit, it hadn’t gone anywhere. It was still in the lawsuit stage, and the interviewer asked what i thought of the princeton case, and i thought that princeton had a pretty good case to defend themselves on. I said that at the time, and i felt that for a long time because i like i’m sure many, many people feel like a place like princeton really has its act. Together and is a pretty good place, and i say that knowing that it’s, i still feel that way. But there were issues that i discovered along the way that i felt really made them look bad. Okay? Okay, and we’re going toe t c we’re going to follow your evolution, okay, you’ve you’ve you’ve come, you’ve come around. I know you’re thinking has evolved. Let’s, let’s not tease any longer. This this goes back to ah nineteen. Sixty one gift from charles roberts heimans set up a little bit for you. Charles robertson, co founder of the great atlantic and pacific tea company the mp supermarkets nineteen sixty one gift to princeton university. Well, let me just do a little bit of a nuance on that. Exactly. The wife, marie robertson, who is the heiress of the mp fortune. She funded it, right? She actually tent. Technically, did fundez yes way say that there were donors, but technically, there was one donor, and that was marie robertson. Okay, but charles robertson, her husband was such a large player in the gift you’re gonna you’re gonna hold my feet to the fire on the details. Well, you’re an attorney and i can’t. Well, i was i was that’s the second time. Now you’ve accused me. I’m not an attorney, sabelo you’re recovering attorney. Yeah. I mean, i do fund-raising more than i do. Attorney work. It plays a part, but i didn’t say it disparagingly. I say it with no i d s marriage, but but you should hold me to the fire because you wrote a book and oh, and i’m glossy. Andi, i you know, ignoring details. Okay. Yes, go ahead. Marie robertson was actually the donor. Yeah, technology. But we think of them as donors and that’s. Fine. She was the heiress of the mp fortune and her one tenth share of the stock when it became available to be invaded after the trust was dissolved in nineteen. Fifty seven was about ninety million dollars. She got ninety million dollars one day from the trust. And charles, her husband, her second husband. I was an investment adviser and he new two things. One is not only should this stock portfolio within the family be diversified, he also did not have any faith in the management of the mp at that time, after the original people died off. He didn’t think it was going to go anywhere. And he was actually right on dh. You could predict anything, but in this particular case, he was right. The mp actually filed for bankruptcy just a few years ago. I don’t know what status today, but it did have a lot of difficulty. The stock did go down, so they were right to a diversify. And also the other part of that in terms of wealth management planning was to make a charitable gift to save on huge, huge taxes. The marginal tax rate at that time was ninety one percent. So this brought them to the woodrow wilson school at princeton university. It did. Ah, charles was a graduate of princeton, so let’s get that out and they were both very interested. Or he was really the intellectual driver behind the gift and it’s purpose. He was very interested, but they both were. They were both interested in international relations. This was an era of that. Today we find it hard to even think happened. There was an optimism in the united states, and there was a lot of challenge because of the height of the cold war, too. In nineteen sixty one, kennedy had just been elected. And so there was the sense of america. Khun do it. There was this idea that we were going to go to the moon, which we did. There was this idea that we could almost conquer anything which we didn’t. But there was a sense, this vibrancy and the robertsons felt that it would be really great if we could go to a really great school, like princeton, the woodrow wilson school which existed before the gift, by the way, and have people go into the foreign service of the government to go out and spread american values, not in any political sort of away or ideological sort of way other than democracy, but do it through the idea of foreign service through a peaceful way. And so the idea was to get students who were at the woodrow wilson school graduate program to then go into the foreign service oppcoll the negotiations ensued, of course, a lot of talk about what the donor’s objectives were, and how to achieve those objectives of a sze yu put it, you know, the broad goal of strengthening the foreign service in the united states. And using the doing that through the woodrow wilson school, their phrase was strengthening the united states government pretty clear, it’s clear, but it’s also abroad. The specific phrase that i think we are probably gonna have to talk about a little bit is the phrase particular emphasis, the idea that students would go into the foreign service area or some branch of the government that had dealings with the foreign service, and that the school would put particular emphasis that’s in the document on putting those students in those positions. Okay, we’re gonna take our first break. Onda of course, doug white stays with us. We’re going to keep talking about the the evolution of this, the the gift and the lawsuit and the lessons, of course. That’s, you know, that’s important that we want to leave you with takeaways so that you can avoid something like this may not be epic in your in your case, but could still be very seriously want help you avoid problems like princeton had with his donors. So stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick, ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Duitz welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m sorry, i can’t send live listener love today. Ah, directly live, because we’re pre recording today, but doesn’t you were listening live. I send you my thanks. Thanks for listening. And, of course, podcast pleasantries to those of you listening everywhere else but live very glad you’re with us. The now we have an hour, but we only have an hour. So we have to fast forward a little bit now, too. How things started. Teo devolve from charles and marie the parents to bill robertson, the son of charles and marie. Things started to break down over time in the in the relationship. One of the interesting aspects of this case is they started to break down a lot sooner than princeton had been saying. Charles robertson himself was very upset. Within a few years of the gift with the lack of results at the school, he had done a lot of research on what the school could do. He had talked to important government officials before setting up the foundation. And by the way, this was a foundation to support the program at the woodrow wilson school. Today, it would be known as, ah supporting organization back in nineteen sixty one, they didn’t have that, but that’s what effectively acted as and so he was on the board as well as two other family members. So there were three family members and for people from princeton on the board of this foundation called the robertson foundation that’s important, i think three family members, four people from princeton, absolutely. That was important for a lot of reasons that turned out to be one of the reasons that there was eventually a lawsuit, but it was also important for the irs to give its blessing to the charitable stature of this organization. So charles robertson knew that princeton would have the four votes they would have control. There was no real question in his mind, but he also wanted to have the families input too over the years over the generations. And so there was this balancing act that they were trying to accomplish, and i think they were all going into this in good faith. There’s no, in my view, any question about that? At the point, the gift was made, but there was always some question as to what the school was going to do. In other words, this was going to be a great program for international relations, and it is today. And i want to be clear about that it’s one of the best in the united states or the best in the world. But the gift was made in order to make room for students to go into the foreign service. That was the whole point of the gift. That was the point of the gift. It wasn’t to make the woodrow wilson school great. It was to put people into the foreign service or in the foreign relations positions in the united states government and that’s what wasn’t happening. And only a few years after that, charles robertson started to look at this and say, what’s our progress, and over the years, i don’t know the exact figure right now, but up until twenty or two, i would say perhaps thirteen to fourteen percent of the students actually went into the government, which was an abysmal failure from charles robertson’s perspective, and so he was upset from pretty pretty much the beginning, and i got my hands on documents that proves this. This was not something that bill robertson is inventing he’s able to show me letters that his father wrote angrily. I mean, there was a lot of emotion in these things to show that he was very upset with the progress of the woodrow wilson school bill robinson comes into the picture because he’s young at this point in nineteen seventy two i think he graduated from princeton himself, so he wasn’t really old. He came out of the board after one of the other family members went off and took basically his father’s place on the board on his family portion of the board in nineteen eighty one after his father died. And so bill took over that mantle of keeping a sharp eye on the progress of the woodrow wilson school graduate program, and continue to be unhappy with it. So it did go from charles to bill, but another dynamic here that we don’t often times take into account. What i tried to describe in the book was bill’s intense loyalty to his parents and in this particular case, his father he felt that his father and mother put this gift the hugest gift basically that had ever been given to a university to that time. And he felt that things weren’t being done correctly. And and his mother, too, was very there’s. Ah, something you say in the book that that bill feels very strong that his mother relied on on princeton and this gift up until her death? Yes, on dh. Trusted them. Yes. Yes, this trust was a big deal, and trust is a big deal in all of our lives, and i don’t know that we really analyze it well or feel it about it their way we might, but i feel strongly that both bill excuse me. Both charles and marie were hoping for more from this gift, and they were trusting princeton probably more than they should have been, but that’s another issue point is that by the time bill took over his seat on the board, things were not improving. And so bill kept up that as i say that that i on on the progress, that isn’t what triggered the lawsuit, but that was always ah, thorn in the side of the of the meetings on dove, the progress of the woodrow wilson school, they were not happy on dh there. I don’t know that there was based on what i’ve seen, i can’t say that i would actually say that there would be a point in that forty year history where they were ever happy. Okay, um, i have my favorite character in in the in this epic lawsuit, but i’m not going i know that i want to. Hold that dahna print co-branded an investment committee plays a big role here, and i think that has a lot and has a lot to do with the donor university relationship. Print go. You’re right, it’s the princeton investment company, i think. Oh, company. Yeah, those committee no. Close, close. Not bad. I’m gonna check you on that. Okay. Okay, go ahead. Check me out. Okay. While you’re doing that, i didn’t bring the book with me that i never bring the book because i don’t want to be, you know, page seventy four. You said all right, i’ll have to check later. This is the problem. Open book tests in high school. That’s why they don’t want to go ahead. All right. So the idea of going into a broader strategy for investing was anathema to bill, as it would have been to charles. In fact, part of the original document talked about how investments had to be put together. The idea was that print cho had been established a few years earlier, and the princeton and dahna, which had gone into several billions of dollars. At that point, i was going to be managed in a more modern way from them or traditional life and bill was way in the early eighties. Now we are in the early eighties. Yeah, we are actually. And charles did not want to get too risky with the investments, and neither did bill and bill, by the way, grew into a financial investment advisory capacity in his own right outside of this. And so he had some chops when it came to investigate. He also didn’t want to go to what became a pretty big norm at university investment houses. And that is to say, by the nineties late nineties, especially the idea of alternative investments was very, very popular, and the thieves were hedge fund these head from investing foreign in foreign companies. Yes. Now every every i have to say that what i was in this business in the investment business for charities, i understood there were lots and lots of asset classes and that’s fine way should always be on the cutting edge of understanding how finances and investments work. But they’re became a time when everything was going up and this happened throughout the two thousands to ana and what became really popular was what we call alternatives. Or the alternative investments like you say hedge funds and other things, and bill was really against that idea and print cho was going forward. He went down to print go because they were in another office and said, show me around and tell me what’s going on. And he was just not impressed with the idea of alternative investments and, quite frankly, again oppressions being what it is in twenty late that’s exactly what brought down these university endowments. In fact, princeton was so reliant upon investments they had about fifty percent or a little bit more in their endowment devoted to alternatives which, when i was in the world of investments back in the early nineties, we would think of two or three percent of a large and and so it got turned upside down, and that the tension was whether print coe should be investing the foundation assets along with the university endowment or and in the eyes of the roberts bill robertson that it should not print go should not have control over the investment exactly and that’s what triggered the lawsuit? It was that issue if you’re looking at one moment where the decision was made to actually file a lawsuit. It was one bill robertson finally got fed up after the after the board for two three voted to go to print cope, put the assets in the print going by the way that thirty five million dollars had grown to about eight hundred million dollars. That thirty five million dollars had grown to about eight hundred billion dollars by two thousand. Wow. Okay, that’s. Excellent perspective. All right, now we’re in the lawsuit. What else did the the lawsuit alleged besides the investment? Misappropriation? Well, not miss probation, but they were a couple of expenses and things like that. That right lawsuit alleged what happens? And you probably know this much better than i. But i learned this a little bit more during the course of writing the book. There was a complaint filed. We feel something is wrong, x and then there’s a response. And then in the process of looking at the issue’s, the plaintiffs have an opportunity to go through what’s called discovery. And in the process of that discovery, they discovered a lot of things that they didn’t know beforehand. So the original complaint had to do a lot. With print go, and it also had a lot to do with why students weren’t going into the foreign service. But during discovery, the plaintiff’s found that a lot of the money wasn’t being spent well, either. For example, people excuse me. Other departments at princeton were getting money from the foundation, and those departments weren’t really helping with the woodrow wilson school. The school princeton defends that and says, i’ll just use the phrase they use academic freedom. They say that academic freedom allowed them to make all of these decisions and bill’s perspective, as well as as well as the attorneys. Of course, for the family was that academic freedom, while it’s a cherished concept and we really want to make sure that we never really violated it still has its limits. You can’t, for example, well, maybe you can we don’t know this never was adjudicated by judge or jury so it’s we’ll never really know. But there was this guy this comment during the depositions, where the attorney for for the robertsons asked one of the president’s what what kind of expenditure would be allowed? And the person said, well, almost anything and the attorney said well, how about the hiring a basketball coach? Would that be allowed? And he said yes, oh, my yes, oh, my that’s a university president. That was the university. Yes saying this i forget whether it was the president or dean, i think it was the president and he said yes, because if we need to hire someone at the woodrow wilson school who likes basketball or whose husband or wife, teacher, our coaches, basketball or some connection and that brings that person to the woodrow wilson school, then we will spend that money on the basketball coach’s salary. Well, you can imagine how the robertsons would react to that. Yeah, and understanding that there is an idea, a fundamental, cherished ideal of academic freedom, we still are violating something very fundamental when that answer comes to the fore. Um, now listeners know that we have jargon jail on twenty martignetti non-profit radio, but i didn’t want to put you over there very simple. You know, the complaint that’s just i’m going to get you out of jargon job because i’m glad that you’re back for a third time on the show, so an attorney is going to get me. Out of the u s attorney’s doing all the time. We’re not all they are not. I’m not practicing law. I am not practicing law. There is that explicit. If i made that clear, those who do practice law often are getting people out of prison. It’s one of the noble or things that we do is restore someone’s freed that they do. They do pronoun trouble eyes restoring freedom to those erroneously held incarcerated. So yeah, the complaint is just that’s the way you you have a complaint. So that’s, how you start a lawsuit and discovery is exchange of all kinds of documents, and in this case it was emails and letters. Metoo certainly notes of notes of conversations you wanted. There was a lot. There was a lot in there that, as you said, the robertsons discovered that they hadn’t known about what was going on with the money in this discovery process of thousands of pages, you know, thousands of pages. Not all of them were stingingly terrible. Now, of course, a lot of it’s very mundane. Very, very monday, and you just have to sift through it because you never know when that nugget is. Going to pop out. But, yes, they found that this money was being spent all over the place at princeton and princeton will say, look, a woodrow wilson school is a great place. Okay, well, there’s, no question about that nobody’s arguing that but what we’re talking about is the intention of the donor and the document that was signed in nineteen sixty one that princeton agreed to, and so that the woodrow wilson school is a great place is true. But your relevant to this this question, the other thing was academic freedom. We can spend money pretty much however we want to. And the robertsons wanted to pull back on that. The another big issue in this was the how the robertsons legal fees are being paid. And that was being paid through the banbury fund. Another robertson family foundation let’s touch on that just lights. Just a little. Okay, princeton didn’t want that to happen, and the robertson said that they could do it. They got opinion letters from their attorneys and also had some precedents from the irs, both in private letter rulings and revenue rulings. So they were, i think, firm ground, but princeton still fights that battle today. They still say that it was improper for the banbury fund, too. Pay the robertson legal expenses. But from what i could say they were they were in a good place to do that. The robertsons work. Okay, um, starting to hint at some of our lessons for later on there was issue in the complaint also or in the subsequent complaint after the discovery around financial transparency. Yes. And disclosures that had not been made to the yeah, the robertsons family. Towboat robertson. So not only do we have these money, these dollars being spent their being spent without the family’s knowledge one was a a building that was being constructed almost entirely from the robertson. That was wallace all while, asshole. Yes. And if you ask bill robertson what the big reasons he went to court work, wallace hall was one of the three and a large part of that was they were not told this was taking place. So in other words, they took the position that not only could they use this money outside of direct connection to the woodrow wilson school, they didn’t have to tell the family about it. Forty three is this warner hall? I’m sorry. While us all was not part of the woodrow wilson school, not at all. It was not so to bill robertson. This is as far afield is hiring the basketball coach and paying for it exactly. He was very upset about that, and i don’t blame him. I mean, there were a lot of places where princeton didn’t have toe go to a lawsuit that could have done so much, and we’ll get to those in lessons later on. But when wallace hall came about, bill was livid. Yeah, well, s o you know, the institution does bad things, and then it covers it up and that’s the that’s, the financial transparency that was that was lacking, and it became part of the complaint. I’ve got more, of course, with doug white and the robertson lawsuit coming up first. Pursuant, their newest resource, the intelligent fund-raising health check downloaded for nine key performance indicators to measures your organization’s health. Ten universal characteristics of orders that are thriving in fund-raising eleven pipers piping, twelve drummers drumming i confess i had looked those up. 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But check out the video it sze three minutes of five minute marketing for plan giving it. Of course, that is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two. And here is more of doug white talking about the robertson v princeton epic lawsuit. The great you’re still here, right? I am cool. So we have now this lawsuit and the discovery and the and the amended complaint based on what the robertsons learned through discovery. And this lawsuit is on for six between six and seven years. I imagine the relationship was pretty damn difficulty between the foundation board and the princeton university. Ah, the administration and the people who are on the board from princeton university. They have to get together for board meetings. Excuse me. Yes, they do. And the bill, sister catherine ernst, described it as having a boardmember and then attorney, then the boardmember and then attorney all around the table, and not only the family, but also the princeton side of the board. It was very tense. They describe how in the early days when charlie was alive, that the relations were very good. There would be lunch at the president’s house. There would be a lot of camaraderie, even the problems were developing. The relations were pretty good by the time the lawsuit comes around. Nobody’s talking. Anybody aboard? Yeah, board meetings. And it became the antithesis of what? And again, i teach board governance at columbia. And we talk about the need for ah, transparency and fluidity. And, you know, trust and none of that was was was there during this lawsuit so it’s very, very tense there, even they were actually having meals in separate rooms. That’s, right? They family really saying we’re family boardmember zand the princeton university board members would would have lunches in separate rooms. That’s, right? They did need an adult to come in and take things. It was they ended up doing there for the settlement, but at this point, it was just i can’t imagine how tense that had to be. Yeah, and over six, seven years, yes, right, yes. Okay, um, let’s. Bring us to the settlement. Twenty eight a lot of things are going on. First of all, it’s true that the robertsons we’re running out of money, even though the banbury fund was funding the lawsuits, the love fees added up to about forty five million dollars on each side, which is an incredible about the money and even a place like the banbury fund was starting to feel that now, if i’ve been a part of those teams, i’d probably still be practicing law. Yes, i would have been. The buildings are so easy when you’re in a lawsuit, but i just never got that far. I stuck it out for two years, and i never made it to this level. Well, the judge retired the one that everybody bonded. Teo in light and respected. He retired. The judge’s clerk left to go work for the princeton lawyers, which was interesting. The new judge could only give it one day a week. And that was maria psychic. And she i was only going to be able to do it for one day a week, which stretched the lawsuit out even further. Give a dog a car there. And so there was a lot of delay and and i get this even though we kind of make fun of this from time to time, that even though there was a delay and there was a slow down, the work still had to be continued. The law fees were continuing. And so the question of being able to pay for this was a very acute one for the robertson family. On the other side of the coin, the princeton investments were going south because the crisis was taking place. And they were, as i say, and alternatives. And so they were having a liquidity problem. I think they probably only source of liquidity. Most fat during that time was probably tuition paying parents was just a very tight time. They might not acknowledge it that way, but that’s pretty much how i see it. And so they were both ready. I think, to talk settlement. They had tried beforehand they didn’t get anywhere. Bill originally wanted to take the entire endowment away and put it somewhere else. And that would have been a really riel problem for the princeton. Because if for no other reason, it would have been a real blow psychologically to this story. I really university. I get what they wanted to do there, so they were going back and forth. And the question was, should we force the university to repay all these dollars that they had misspent, which could have been an excess of about two hundred billion dollars back into the foundation? Or can we just take the foundation away? Or can we split away from the foundation and they wanted independence? They wanted to say, okay, we want money to go do our own thing, that is, to say what my parents were doing, who his parents were doing, and the and princeton really didn’t want that, so they said, okay, what we’ll do is we’ll consider chopping off some of this money and giving it to you if you let us keep the rest of it, you guys go away and that’s, basically, what happened? They did bring in an adult david gal fan from milbank tweed who came in and his whole approach was saying not to say who had the better argument legally, his approach was, how can we get out of this mess? And i think he was a good voice. He was not part. Of the litigation. And he was a good voice to be brought in at this time, and he actually did the settlement. He was very good. And the settlement wass that princeton would reimburse the banbury fund the forty five million dollars for the legal fees. And in addition to that, over a period of time, the university would pay fifty million dollars to a new foundation. It’s called the robinson foundation for government. And it now exists it’s, a family foundation, and has its own work and does what it’s predecessor was supposed to do that is to put students into the federal government. But it is completely independent. Totally invested in university. Yeah. And then the rest of the money which probably added up to around six hundred fifty or seven hundred million dollars. Because during that period of time, during the crisis, the dahna came dahna shade. But let’s say six hundred million then was left. I don’t know exactly. The robinson foundation, by the way, was dissolved the original one. And so the money that was in it and was left for princeton went into its general endowment specifically for the woodrow wilson school and today the robertson family does not have anything to say about how that money is being used. There is a complete divorce. Okay, i think that can bring us teo somethings that charity’s can can take away. Um, i still haven’t revealed my favorite character, but we haven’t talked about that person. Um, agreements, should we start with a gram? And this was all went back to the to the phrase a particular emphasis. So do we, which was in which was in the original document creating the foundation? Yes, let’s. Talk about what? What level of scrupulous nous we need to have around agreements with donors. Let me preface it by saying the this this conversation, this part of it right now has a lot to do with understanding that this lawsuit was a story and it’s true and it’s big but it’s really? A reason for being important is that almost any charity and almost any donor i can get into this bind. So it’s not just ah, large family or a large university. Any endowed gift or any restricted gift really, really needs to be put together with what i would call the lessons you want. Bring us. We could easily be talking about a ten or fifteen thousand dollars gift easily, easily and that’s really one of the big messages here? This isn’t just about princeton has got a lot of interest, but it’s not just about princeton and so donors and charities both have to be aware of this when we say when we use phrases like in with particular emphasis, it has a meaning, but it doesn’t have an absolute meaning doesn’t mean that one hundred percent of the students are goingto go to the federal government, but it also doesn’t mean zero percent or ten percent. So we have to have an understanding you and i about what particular emphasis means if it were seventy or eighty or ninety percent, i don’t think charles robertson would have had any problem. I think even if he were sixty or sixty five percent, part of the problem was not just the results, and this is another thing they discovered was that princeton never really cared whether the students we’re going to go and the evidence of that was they never asked on the application whether they were interested in going into the federal government, so there. Was that part of the equation? So and i think you can relate to this as an attorney, we sometimes think of the laws being black and white and here’s what’s, right, and here’s what’s wrong. But a lot of phrases we use are are vague on purpose. They they’re meant to be because we can’t assign a value our specific numeric value to the word emphasis we just can’t do that. And yet, it’s an important idea in an agreement. So if a person is making an agreement today, one lesson is too if you’re going to use that kind of a phrase, uh, define it a little bit more than they did. One one word that gets us into trouble, i think, and fund-raising agreements and that is the word in perpetuity of the phrase in perpetuity because in perpetuity has has a meaning if you look it up. It’s very clear what that meaning is it means forever and forever has a meaning. And so, by definition, we cannot put into legitimately into an agreement, in my view, the word perpetuity because we cannot know what’s going to happen forever. So we have to be more careful. And crafting the language that we’re using. I want i made a gift to my own high school. This is a in the nineteen eighties of deferred gift. Where’d you go to high school exeter, phillips, exeter. And it was back in the day when pulled income funds were popular. You probably remember that yourself. None of our listeners will. There were there was a thing it’s, an antique drug in jail. Again. Well its way. But we have to define it’s now an out of date. Really? Life, income gift. A method through which donors got variable income for for their lives. And the variability became a big issue when interest rates were declining and the varying the variations were all down. And these have pretty much falling out of favor among among non-profits so that’s enough for me. So then come front. When i was doing the agreement, they said and i wanted to honor my english teacher and they said, this is back in like, nineteen, eighty four they said, you know, this going to sound weird, but we might not teach english forever, right? I thought, how is that possible? But it may not be possible. But it was also not conceivable that we wouldn’t be riding horses forever. So had an escape plus, saying that if this ever did happen that they be able to use it to a purpose is closest possible. Something, something that deals with ian practicability of yes, continuing the gift. Yes, and i’m tryingto bring this and tryingto respond to your question about how donors can and charities. Khun b take steps to avoid what happened to princeton so that we don’t just use words capriciously. We just have about a minute before a break, and there’s certainly board implications here, too. I mean, the princeton board reviewed the documentation and probably was involved in in a good degree in the negotiations board oversight of gift. Yes, this is a good example of that. Now, i don’t really fault the board at princeton to too much because it was nineteen, sixty one and not twenty fourteen, and so we’ve learned a lot in the last half century about board oversight and so forth, but that said thie gift was basically shoved through. It was a last minute quick kind of a thing had nothing to do with there at the time current capital campaign and the president really did not have the fullest discussion with the board about this gift, and they should have so board oversight of that process is really critical. We could go out front brake, and when we come back, doug and i will keep talking about the lessons from this epic lawsuit robertson v princeton like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. As we make our agreements more specific and and defined terms as you’re suggesting, we can actually get into trouble because the specificity now binds us two teo, try to predict what’s going to happen and try to predict what issues are goingto a result. So there’s a there’s a balance between specificity and flexibility there is, and when i was saying earlier that we need to be more specific, er not use words capriciously, you’re right, i had that in mind to that there is a balance and it’s there’s always going to be tension. And so the question is, how do we avoid this kind of a thing going into the future? And one of the things that you can avoid has nothing to do with the agreement. It has everything to do with relations. If princeton had done so much differently, this wouldn’t have gone to where it went. But it was the lack of trust, the erosion of trust over the decades that really set the stage for this. Then you can go to the agreement say you’re not doing this well if you have the trust going on at the same time, you don’t need to go to the agreement, say you are or are not doing something but that’s it so so that’s probably the best lesson that anybody can learn from a charitable perspective anyway, to stay in touch with the airs at the donors and the heirs forever. This is an obligation, and if you don’t feel you can do that, you don’t feel you, khun obligate your success is that the organization to do that, then don’t promise to do that that’s part of the deal here in plan giving, when i was in plan giving, doing these kinds of things and talking to you too plant giving directors, i would say you’re you’re actually making an agreement here that will go on for well past the time you’re here, and probably perhaps well past the time you’re even alive. So many generations of successors after you are going to have to do what you’re agreeing to do today, keep that idea in mind when you make these agreements and this particular agreement, nothing was going to erode the idea of a federal government or the need for foreign relations, but still there could have been mohr a trust and more. Specificity, i think, in the agreement, although i don’t think the specificity was the issue here, i think the idea was pretty clear, i mean, with particular emphasis might be a vague term, but it does have enough of a meaning and enough of an understanding by people who consider the table to know that thirteen percent just doesn’t cut it. You know, you know, the good communications and keeping in touch, and in this case, there were there were different presidents who could at any time i thought when, when there was a new president, he or she could have said, you know, we’ve made some mistakes in the past, obviously i was not in charge then, but here’s what here’s, what happened and here’s what we’re gonna do, teo, and make sure that this doesn’t happen again, that humility is so crucial, especially the non-profit i can understand boisterousness from ah for-profit especially if it’s a big one, but at a non-profit there’s this extra special place that non-profits haven’t talked about that in the other book, the non-profit challenge where that humility plays a large large role or should now, just so you’ll know, since this book was published other organizations, air writing reviews and trying to talk with both me and princeton. Princeton refuses to talk about it. They give the same press release that they give that they gave after the settlement they do not want to acknowledge, but something went wrong. How they could possibly agnostic. Now i could understand them having a defense, but to say they were totally in the right, it blows my mind, you know that? Yeah, that sounds like lawyers giving advice and and driving the decisionmaking vs people who are more interested in the long term relationships with donors and alumni. That was paul volcker’s perspective. I interviewed him because he’s, a princeton alum, and he also had a perspective on this situation at the woodrow wilson school. And he was complaining about the woodrow wilson school separately and before the lawsuit ever came, so he was doing it entirely independently. And when the lawsuit came around, he told me, i think the lawyers are driving this. They’re saying, princessa can admit to nothing but i’m thinking, okay, i get that it’s not good, but i get that. But here we are, what, five years? Seven years. Six years after the settlement and they’re still saying we didn’t do anything wrong. Is bill robertson willing to talk now? Yeah, bills bill is going to be speaking with me up in boston next week. Oh, i could’ve had bill roberts instead of you. You could have a visible the name in the lawsuit instead of the guy who just follows it later on, you’re in the gundam, maybe it’s somehow it’s done now. Alright, alright, to settle for this second best. Okay? And so, as we are crafting these agreements again, the board’s role in reviewing agreements whether whether it is appropriate to buying this organization forever in perpetuity, or should we stop short of that and the board is really the last step two that can raise a red flag for the organization it is, unless you can come to some agreement as to what in perpetuity means as they did at the a museum of ma metropolitan museum of art a few years ago. And philippe de montebello said, we think in perpetuity really means seventy five years on the donor agreed to that. Well, that’s ok, that’s coming is a definition. There was a definition, right? So in perfect, what he didn’t really mean what it means in addiction, right? Fright, but yes, you’re right, i think the board has to be very cautious of that. My favorite character, we didn’t talk about her, but you dedicated the book to jessie lee washington. I did, i don’t want to, i’ll let you explain, but we just have it. We just have a couple minutes explain the crucial role just a jesse was an employee at that. The university was asked to look into endowments at the divinity school and found some irregularities and did a report, and it was put away for a while. Then she left on dh. Then the lawsuit became really big, and she said, you know this? What i was working on in the divinity school is very similar to what the lawsuit is alleging. So she came out and went to the lawyers for princeton with seth lap ido and said, i have a story to tell you, and when she got on the phone, seth said, we’ve been waiting for you to come. He didn’t know who it was going to be, but he figured there would be some other person in princeton who would be familiar with this activity that princeton was doing in the endowment accounting and she really represent she she i think, was very courageous. She put her reputation on the line and said, i am willing to go on the record to say what’s wrong here, and he dedicated the book to her, and that was so touching. And i think, well, she’s, my favorite because i believe that most people want to do the right thing and she’s a perfect example of stepping forward being courageous the way you describe most people in non-profits and donors want to do the right thing. I think you’re right. I know you’re right. Doug, wait, author, professor, advisor non-profits and philanthropists. He hangs out at columbia university teaching at the masters and fund-raising program. You will find him at doug white dot net. The book is abusing donorsearch intent. The robertson family’s epic lawsuit against princeton university it’s a very, very good story and very well told doug white. Thanks so much. Thank you, it’s. Good to see you again. Pleasure. Did you think that i was going to wrap up this show without live? Listen, love. Podcast pleasantries an affiliate affections lima, lima, lima podcast pod papa papa an alfa alfa. Certainly not certainly not can’t happen. So the liveliest naralo let’s go abroad. I like the start abroad today in ah poon a india i believe i’m not sure i’m pronouncing it right, but india is definitely with us. Germany. Guten tag. We can’t see your city, russia i’m sorry, we can’t see your city. I don’t know if i should be surprised there, but we cannot, um anybody else abroad? Yes, none, none name none in china ni hao and nobody from nobody from south korea. You know what? I bet south korea’s there, but we just can’t see them, so i’m certainly going to send on your haserot comes a ham nida to our listeners in south korea, there always there and, uh, come in a little closer to home. Coming. Georgia, georgia, i cracked again. Elizabeth, new jersey! I know elizabeth well, i don’t know this, but this is my grandmother used to work at a plant. It was a pharmaceutical plant in elizabeth going back-up a number of years. Elizabeth, new jersey live. Listen love to you also live love goes out to tampa, florida. Woodbridge, new jersey, south orange, new jersey. Why would get jersey checking in lots of places, mostly north. Let’s. Cool, though. And bayside, new york and queens live. Listen love to each of you. Thank you so much for being with us and we’ve got to send the podcast pleasantries to the over twelve thousand listening in the time shift. Thank you. 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Nonprofit Radio for June 30, 2017: Persuading The Wealthy To Donate & Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring

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Ashley Whillans: Persuading The Wealthy To Donate

Ashley Whillans’ research reveals the language that stimulates giving from your wealthy potential donors. She’s assistant professor at Harvard Business School.

 

 

 

Gene Takagi: Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring

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Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO), walks us through this important board responsibility: hiring the executive officer. (Originally aired 7/11/14)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the either ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of pem fi gis if you bullied me with the idea that you missed today’s show persuading the wealthy to donate ashley whillans research reveals the language that stimulates giving from your wealthy potential donors and your boards role in executive hiring. Jing takagi are legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group walks us through this important board responsibility hyre ing the executive officer that originally aired on july eleven twenty fourteen on tony’s take two the charleston principles we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com my pleasure. Now to welcome ashley whillans to the show, she just turned her phd from the university of british columbia. She conducts research with non-profits companies and government. She was a twenty fifteen rising star of behavioral science. In twenty sixteen, she helped start the behavioral insights group. In the british columbia provincial government next month, ashley begins her faculty career as an assistant professor at the harvard business school in negotiations organizations and markets she’s at ashley whillans and i’m very glad to welcome her to non-profit radio welcome, ashley. Thank you so much for having me this morning. Pleasure. Now, there’s. A lot going on in your life. You just got your ph d just last month, right? You just graduated? Yeah. That’s. Right. Uh, something like two weeks ago. I just got my my doctorate. Congratulations, that’s. Outstanding. Because because when we started, when we started emailing your your email signature said phd candidate and now it says ashley whillans phd. Yeah. That’s right. That was the most exciting email change i made recently. Yes. Right. You got to go into preferences signatures and change. Delete the word candidate that’s. Outstanding. Yeah, great. Yeah. Now i see you are not using period’s. Most people do. Ph, period d period. You’re opting against the periods. Is there some kind of ah, that a brevity fetish you have or something? What? Why’s that no periods. Yes. Efficiency, laziness, something like that. Okay, even those two keystrokes, those two period keystrokes. It’s. Too much with the right hand. Too much. Okay. Okay, on dh now, big, big changes coming up you. So you’re you’re in british columbia that you went to university of british columbia. But now you gotta move to cambridge, right? You’re moving tomorrow? Yeah. Moving tomorrow. Uh, morning. Cambridge, massachusetts that’s. Incredible. Um, good luck in the move. Are you are you a canadian originally? Your canadian citizen? I am a canadian. Okay. All right. Now, aren’t you at all concerned about our muslim ban? I know ashley willens. So that’s a suspicious sounding name to me. Is that a muslim? Ashley whillans is that a muslim name? Sounds sounds muslim. No, i i don’t have to worry about it, but i know it is an issue for some of my my friends. So this’s america shortly? Okay, you’re you’re friends, right? It’s affects a lot of people’s friends and that you know where the where the democracy, where everyone is under suspicion. So i did see your head shot and i did not see ah, hey, job on your head shot. So may i hope you’ll get through scrutiny. I don’t know what we’re looking at canadian citizens, how scrupulous were being. I hope you have no trouble coming in. Let’s, get to the substance of sort of self concept and and giving, let me ask, let me start. A lot of people think the wealthy are selfish. Is that so? So i would definitely hesitate against that general idea related to the research that i did. I think it’s, so i think that that wealthy individuals have a lot of personal control and so it’s not that wealthier individuals, on average or selfish, but rather that they and are used to and enjoy having autonomy or personal control over decisions in their daily life. Yeah, that autonomy then and an agency we’re going, we’re going to get to. There was a really interesting study in twenty fifteen of preschoolers, which is related to the work that you did and we’re going to talk about, can you? Can you summarize that for us? That twenty fifteen preschoolers research? Um so i think broadly, this wasn’t my research was that the preschool fighting is that kids from wealthier families actually give less tokens during an economic game in the lab than been children from less wealthy background, so they decide to keep more tokens for themselves, even when the tokens they’re going to go to other children who who couldn’t be there to participate in the study because they were at sick in half because they’re sick in the hospital, right? This study is just one example of many that are sort of proliferating in the social sciences, suggesting that, um, people from wealthier backgrounds tends to give less when one provided with the opportunity, right? And your research finds the way teo overcome what? What? Maybe? Well, it’s, your research points out that it’s really not something innate, but it’s the messaging coming from the charities that is a variable factor that can influence the giving of the wealthy and the less affluent, too. Yes, that’s right. So, really, what our research fight is that the and this is this isn’t necessarily surprising so fund-raising professional, they’re like, of course, you should table your message to your audience, but i think what’s, really. So what we find is that he’s more agenda messages, messages that focus on personal achievement and control are more effective it encouraging giving among those with the greatest capacity or messages that focus on what we can all do together to help the cause are more effective for those with the less capacity give but across our studies of more than thousand working adults from both chicago in vancouver, we don’t find any inherent differences in our studies between those with most the most money in our samples in those with please okay, samples so we don’t see a main effect where people who are wealthy orc are giving much less, and people have less money or giving maurine the content of the earth studies. But rather we find that depending on how the message is frame’s related to charitable giving, the wealthy give more or the left latto give more. Okay, now that sound very it sounds like you’ve said that those few paragraphs a bunch of times in the past couple months or so nastad sounded very, very polished and finished. Have you repeated those words a few times? No, not too much, not too much, but i have thought about this research a lot over the last three years. Yeah, okay. All right, well, it’s there’s a lot there. We’re gonna unpack it, but, um, yeah, i like the bottom line is that it’s not only about the wealthy and it the tailoring a lot of times fundraisers or anybody and non-profit they talk about tailoring a message? They mean used the person’s first name or, you know, address them personally or address them by ah, bye program that they’re interested in or certainly maybe e-giving level where, you know, but we’re we’re talking about cutting it. A different way. Which would be bye affluence. Do i have that on my perverting? Your researcher of kapin basically absolutely right. Okay, okay. We’re gonna go out for our first break. Thank you for telling me. I did not pervert your research. I don’t want to do that. We’re gonna go out for a first for our break. And when we come back, you and i will continue talking about persuading the wealthy and others to donate using the right messaging. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the either ninety five percent. Ashley whillans recent phd. We’re talking about her research on messaging and e-giving ah, the different levels of of affluence. Actually, you did this with riel charities. Is that that’s what i gather, right? Yes. That’s, right. So we conducted the research with an organization that focuses on effective plan to be the life you can save on. We’ve also done this with a large private university in the united states. Okay, i guess you’re not at liberty to say the the name of the university is that? Does that part of the agreement? That’s, right? Yeah. Kapin nondisclosure agreement. Okay, now we know that you’re headed to harvard business school, but, you know, that’s just may just be a coincidence. Oh, by the way, what? It wasn’t there, it wasn’t. It wasn’t there. Okay, but where were you going to be? Teaching? I mean, you know, it’s like getting your syllabus together right for your first. Are you going to teaching in the fall? I’m teaching in the second semester, so i’ll be teaching negotiations. I take the class first and then i teach in the second. Semester they make a making a new professor. Sit through the class, see that you understand how the class goes and you get a feel for what the classroom is like. Oh, man, and you get paid for that. You’re on salary while you’re doing that? Yes, falik okay, well, of course you have other responsibilities as well. You’re not just going to one, you know, just taking one class. And they i’ve been sitting on the quad for the they don’t let me off that easy. Okay? Cool. No, it’s. Very good for you. All right. So a charity without a canadian charity, the charity is in the united states. They’re both the both the college and the charity work in the united states. Ok, ok. Was that hard? Is that hard? Teo recruit charities too. Let you mess with their messaging? Yeah, that’s a great question. It definitely took a little bit of collecting initial evidence on the idea first. And i’m also part of the society for philanthropy initiative out of the university of chicago. So it’s run by john list and other economists who are centered at the university of chicago and there’s a conference every year that brings together fund-raising professionals, professionals, leading academics in economics, sociology and psychology. Two begin to think about and talk about using the insights from our fields and put them into practice. So that was a great source of connections for us when we went and tried to find field partners for our research professor john list in chicago, i think he’s been on this show, i’m pretty sure he has i’m i’m gonna go to tony martignetti dot com and search his name, but i’m pretty sure john list has been on. Yeah, that’s great, yeah, he’s a major he’s, one of the leading academic academics in the field of fund-raising so he really started the academic field of philanthropic studies and fund-raising looking at from a behavioral science perspective, his career really took off after he was on non-profit radio. So this is very auspicious for you. I don’t know if you know that this is a watershed, this watershed for you. I don’t know if you’re aware of that. Great, great. Now i have been. But now you are here. Yes, you know, gen shang. Do you know professor gen shang? I don’t know, you know. You’re not well connected, all right? We’ll have to connect you in the university environment. She’s another professor. Now it, uh i think she’s now at cambridge. The other cambridge? Not the not the knockoff. Cambridge. You’re moving to she’s. The original cambridge, i think. Pretty sure. Okay, so all right, so you recruited your charities and then what’s the next step? Yeah. What was next after that? Oh, you got a what we had a discussion about. You know what? Campaigns were upcoming that we might be able to do. Random i control trials. So that’s, where we’ve flip a coin essentially on dh randomly find everyone who’s going to receive a mail out to receive one of the treatments or the other treatment. Andi, that was actually done all by the university alumni office. So they were able to select one set of messages for the group that we randomly assigned in another set of messages for this other group. And then we were able to put these messages into the field and look at donation rates, both participation rates, so likelihood of donating to the campaign. And also the amount that people donated to the campaign. Okay. On dh it took about i think it was in the field for so we were waiting for the results for three or four months on dh. Then we were able to look at whether and how different messages affected different potential donors differently, and the charities had wealth, information or income information about the people who receive these melons right in our field study with the university office we hey, we did a little bit of guessing and well, so we didn’t have individual level wealth data, but we did have a zip code data. We were able to get the average level of well in the neighborhood that individual’s lives. We also knew how much they donated in previous campaigns, which is a pretty good indicator of wealth of someone who gives six, seven, eight thousand dollars to their university alumni office is probably a lot someone who’s wealthier than then another individual who’s giving five, ten, fifty hundred dollars over the last couple of campaigns. So we only that is an index of well, all right. That’s a good that’s. A good proxy. Ah, especially if it’s over over a period. Ah, good period of years or so that’s true. And you used ninety thousand dollars as the cut off between affluent and less affluent, right? So where we got that number is actually so those were from our more tightly controlled experiments in the field where we i went up to adults at different finds museums in vancouver and chicago. And we asked him to participate in a study who provided them with a windfall of money and prevented the opportunity. Donate either in terms of agency or communion is we’ve been kind of talking about and we measure their individual loss. Okay, so that was different. That was different. Fields, scratch that off. Actually, just emerged from our data. So wave randomly assigned everyone in our sample to see either these more achievement focused or these more community focused messages. And then we ran additional analyses looking at you know what? At what point that these messages focused on achievement really seem to be working on. We found that message is focused on achievement. Really seemed to start working at promoting giving around this ninety thousand dollar mark. So that’s, that point actually emerged from the studies that we were conducting. Okay, okay, so that so that was a different set of field research, the the ninety thousand dollar affluent level that was from the university or the or the or the charity mailing? Okay. Okay, well, by the way, what’s, your what’s, your windfall payment to participate in the research at the at the museum’s. What do you what researchers consider a windfall? Yeah. So when paul is money that you didn’t expect to get way, provided all of our participants with a ten dollar when thawed the beginning of the study. But we there’s a couple of things that we do to help people ten dollars that’s a winner money, ten dollars. A windfall. I don’t really like twenty, five hundred or five thousand or something, man. They’re underfunded, you’re badly underfunded payment. You could go for lunch or something or have a coffee. So what we actually do, though, is way. Tell people that’s their payment for participating in our study, and we put it in a foryou envelope on we tell participants to put that payment of money away. So those couple of small, small thing telling them it’s their payment for their effort in our studies and telling them to put it away and just sign for it how people on our studies feel a sense of ownership over the payment because we know that if so, then we can feel a little bit more confident, but the results will generalize to the real world because people are treating that more like their money and left life, you know, something that’s like a payment that belongs to the researchers as opposed to them. You people are pretty tricky like you. You’re really trying to pull the wool over our eyes if we’re if we’re a subject subject, yeah, it helps. It helps us feel more confident in our results if i didn’t and here’s some of our experiments all money, you know, can you make a decision with it? People are going to make a different decision then, if they feel like i’m now asking them tio part with some of the money that they’ve earned in our study, i see very wily ofyou, behavioral scientists. All right. Are you familiar at all with the research of ah, do you know the name’s, sara kiesler and lee sproule? No. Okay, old social scientists from when i went to college. But i thought you might have come across there. They were behavioral social scientists also. But i won’t dwell on there. There, the forefathers, for four founders, foremothers of your of your research, but it’s not important, okay. Okay, so all right, enough of the detail. Now what? Uh, what emerged from the the different messages flush it out for us. So what we found was that messages that focused on achievement encourage generosity among those with the greatest capacity to give so above that ninety thousand threshold that we’re talking about where’s messages focused on community. But we can all do together to help the cause, encourage generosity among those with the least amount of money in our samples. And this was true, as i said before, both when we measured individual level wealth and when participants knew they were in a study. And these findings also emerge when we conducted this research in the field with the university fund-raising office and people didn’t know that they were in a study. So we also thought that these messages focus on achievement promoted e-giving for individuals who were graduates of an elite business school in the united states um, and then that study it increased the amount that that individuals gave in the study. Now what you refer to as the communion message, by the way that’s interesting tries to work communion, huh? Why’d you choose communion instead? Of community. So this is just really a kind of jargon. Ease social. See there’s the trouble right there. Yeah. Jargon. We have jargon jail on a non-profit radio. It was the first problem, right? There’s the problem right there. Okay. Okay. So community is one way you can think about it. That’s totally fine if it’s with a lot of research and our field showing that people from different cultural backgrounds tend to think about their relationship with others in different ways. So in north american cultural context, we tend to be more gentle. We focus on this self as really standing out. Where is in more collectivist culture, such as in east asia? We focus more on fitting in, and our relationships with others are really important. Recently in the social sciences, people have started to draw parallels between these different cultural mindset and the mindset that are so secret with having more or less money. So i used the word agency and communion tow link this broader literature. But really, you can think about this in terms of agency or community that wealthier individuals tend to be more singularly focused and really wanting to stand out. We’re lost wealthy individuals tend, on average to be more focused to their community, so they tend to want to fit in with those around them. You have the gift of of ah, complete explanation and appropriate qualification, which will serve you well as a professor. A ll the professors i’ve interviewed, including john list have those gift detail and qualification were required. I know if you know that, but you’ve. You’ve acquired it through your three year study. Congratulations. All right. So so the message is that you used for the the communion. The message was let’s. Save a life together. That’s one example. Right? And then the for the individual achievement of the agency message he used you equals life saver. Those are those are a couple of examples of messages. Yeah, yes. Okay. And those would have gone out in direct mail is that is that right? There will be mail pieces. So in our initial studies, we had people in our studies read those appeals in the context of an actual experiments. And in the university fund-raising study, those messages went out in direct mail. So those messages were at the very top of what people saw. And at the very bottom, right before they made or messages like that break before they made their donation decision. Okay, okay. So, really, you know, a zeiss ed? The research applies to the affluent as well as the non affluent or less up. However you want to describe it, you want your messaging to be appropriate, and we’re introducing sort of a new variable. I think that or at least one that i have not scene which is messaging by wealth level here. Yes, that’s. Right. So i research really does show that thinking about or knowing something about the socioeconomic status or background of potential donors, i can provide one clue about the types of messages or appeals that might be more effective for for a different different groups. And again, this really fits with what we know in psychology about how well shapes the way we think about ourselves. So we know again, that’s the kind of reiterate we know that lower income individuals on average and we’re always talking about general, is to think about the world in a way that’s, more relational. How can i fit in with my community? How can i make a difference fight by being part of my group where hyre social status hyre hyre more wealthy individuals tend to think about right standing out from the crowd and how they can show their uniqueness or economy in their lives. So i think, knowing just a little bit about how well shapes the way people think about themselves is an important clue as to how we might want to frame charitable giving or messages of round fund-raising to encourage e-giving among both groups, andi, i also think that it’s important, so i think i mean, again, the idea of tailoring messages isn’t new, but i do think that this a gent iq framing this sort of focus on personal achievement or self, you know, control sort of seems teo conflict with the way that we think about charitable giving as something that together we all help an important cause. And so i think it’s important to another kind of important message embedded in this work, but sometimes we need to step beyond encouraging people to do things that have positive outcomes, like give charity or healthy for positive reasons, and instead focus on encouraging people to do positive behavior for reasons. That fit with their pre existing values on goals. I don’t know if it was your new york times op ed with your with your co researchers or was one of the pieces i read, you know, your insight could see you’re concerned about being contrary to the morality of charitable giving and that concept of community, but but i understand your concern, but we can we can help the community by tailoring the message appropriately, the way the way you’re describing, um i wanted to ask where we just have about two minutes left. Ashley so where now is your your research going to be heading? Is there going to be more in the in the fund-raising realm? Lorts yes, so i’m starting a major project now, looking at how we can encourage e-giving early on, so how can we encourage mindsets, associate with generosity and giving for kids? And what and what also our conversations? How did conversations between children and parents shape not on ly the way that kids think about the importance of giving but also shaped parents own behavior, so we want often and still in our children the important values that we care about. And we want to know how conversations about e-giving not only affect the way that children prissy e-giving but also affect care and some behavior, but they’re looking to their kids, they’re trying to instill important values to their families and in that could be reminded about the importance of philanthropy, and this interest really came out of a lot of research we did that didn’t work, trying to change people’s minds about giving or the importance of thinking about contributing back to the community, sort of later on in length that we were serving high net worth donors, individuals with hyre levels of wealth, and we found that some wealthy individuals who are more generous tend to think about their success is being drive from the situation from help from others on dh that that seemed to be powerful component on what afflict e-giving but when we tried to take that insight into the field and leverage it to encourage charitable giving were large and successful, one important question then becomes, how can we encourage this? You know, more communal mind set more community focused way of thinking early on before people become financially successful or go through education. And so have become really interested in my collaborators, and i have become really interested in serious about the rule of conversations, the powerful role of conversations, about e-giving early on, both for kids and for parents. And so those are some of the ideas that i’m going to be blurring of the next several years. Alright, excellent good explained like a true professor on, but i hope you just hope you’re not going to rob our children of their youth. We’re not gonna we’re not gonna do it let’s not go to that extent when as you as you in this children for your research work errantly designing about e-giving game. Okay e fine. And also i’m alright. Parents need not be worried toe have their children participate. All right, we have to leave it there. Actually, whillans congratulations on your new phd. You can. You can follow ashley at ashley whillans. Thank you so much for sharing and being a part of non-profit radio. Actually, thanks so much. And congratulations. Thank you so much for having me. Real pleasure. All right, take care. Your board’s role in executive hiring with jean takagi is coming up first. Pursuant, they’re infographic it is five steps to win at data driven fund-raising this infographic would probably be the on the other end of the spectrum from the type of research that we were just talking about with ashley, because this is going this distill things in, you know, five simple steps, which is not what academic research is, but while still valuable all data driven because, you know, pursuing tell you every week data driven they have, they have this infographic that will help you define your goal and what the most important metrics are and optimizing and tuning fine tuning for best results, learning through infographic, you can learn from academic research you can learn through in infographic because you are a you’re a lifetime lerner, and you’re a flexible learner, so don’t ignore the ends of the spectrum and the infographic and the peer reviewed academic research from the folks at pursuing dot com. You go there and then you click resource is then info graphics. We’ll be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. You need more money for your good work. I know you do throw a spelling bee. Anybody can throw a party generic party well, maybe not. Anybody? I mean, i’ve been to some bad parties, but most anybody could throw a decent party but a spelling bee party that takes it to the next level with live music and dancing that’s a that’s, a true party and fund-raising, of course, for your because your your mission, your good work. Check out the video at we b e spelling dot com, then talk to the ceo it’s that simple. Alex greer now tony steak too. The charleston principles. My video is from charlotte, but the principles are from charleston, and i decided that they share enough common letters. First five teo to do a video inspired by charleston even though i was in charlotte and charlotte, north carolina, nicer town. I’ve been there many overnights and there when i shot the video and i’ve never been to charleston, but i can tell from the pictures charlotte’s nicer, i couldjust north carolina, i can see that i see from the pictures the charleston principles there’s a love that has nothing to do with you should’ve fast forward it best that all right, here’s, what we’re talking about charleston principles right now, it’s all about charity registration the state you know where you got to be properly registered need state where you solicit donations. All that charleston principles have some very good ideas and definitions of solicitation problem is it’s hard to tell which states have adopted them of largely, but i can help you. Check out the video at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two now. It’s. Time for jean takagi on your boards role in executive hiring jean takagi he’s with us. You know him? He’s, the managing editor, attorney at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the very popular non-profit law block dot com on twitter he’s at g tak g ta ke jin takagi welcome back, alt-right onen congratulations on one ninety nine. I’m looking forward to two hundred next week. Cool. Yes. I’m glad you’re gonna be calling in for with us. Thank you very much. Thank you, it’s. Very exciting. Really? One hundred ninety nine shows ago. It’s one hundred ninety nine weeks it’s it’s. Remarkable. We’re talking this week about the board’s role in hiring the executive. And i’ve i understand that there are a lot of executives in transition, i think. So tony and it looks like some surveys have confirmed that it’s certainly been an experience with some of my clients and even on boards i’ve sat on over the last couple years, and there’s, a great group called compass point out in san francisco there, nationally known as one of the most respected non-profit support centers and together with blue avocado, a non-profit online publication, they have a national survey on leadership succession in transition going on just right now. The last time they published the results was in two thousand eleven, and they found that sixty seven percent of current executive anticipated leaving within five years and ten percent. We’re currently actively looking to leave right then, and in two thousand eleven, the economic times weren’t so were so great, so sixty seven percent anticipating leaving within five years that’s a pretty staggering number. So now we’re already three years into that survey into that five year projection. Yeah, and sixty seven percent of two thirds. So if we had held this show off until two thousand sixteen, then it would have been moved. But there’s a new one coming out, you said, yeah, well, they’re they’re just starting the survey online now so you can participate on that. I don’t know the website, but if you, you know google non-profit transition survey executive transition survey, thank you, you’ll get that okay, and its compass point it’s a compass point and blew up a goddamn kottler who you’ve. You’ve mentioned blue vaccaro before i know. All right, so, yeah, two thirds of of ceos were expecting to be in transition within five years and where we’re only three years into it now. So the presumably these people are still looking. What? But boards don’t really spend enough time preparing for this kind of succession, do they? Well, you know, in many cases they don’t, and sometimes, you know, they might stay, they don’t get the chance because their executive director comes up to him and give him two weeks notice. And now, you know, the board may be used to meeting every month or every other month or even every third month, and now all of a sudden they’ve gotta ramp up their efforts and find an executive to come in in two weeks. That’s going to be really tough to do on dh, you know, again, if we say at any given time, two thirds of the non-profit executives are looking to leave their job, you know, it’s very likely that within your board term, you know, you may have an executive transition to manage, and sometimes with very little notice. So that’s that’s? Why? I think succession planning is just really a core duty of non-profit board. Well, how do we let them get away with this two week notice? I mean, the ones i typically see are, you know, the person will stay on until a successor. Is found you that’s, not your experience. Well, you know, you’re really lucky if you if you do get that situation, i think most non-profit executives are hired on at will basis. Meaning that there’s, not a contract to stay there for a given number of years. Either party can conception, rate or terminate the employment relationship at any time. And as the average, you know, employee may give two weeks notice to go on to another job there. Many executives who feel the same way that they, you know, they may feel like they own allegiance to an organization. But another opportunity comes up and it’s not going to be held for them forever. And they may want to move on. Um, and they may feel like what they gave the board really advanced notice that they might be looking for something that they might get terminated. So they may keep that information from the board until the last two weeks. Well, because all right, so that i am way in the dark because i would. I just presumed that executive directors, ceos even if small and midsize shops were not at will. But they were but that they were contract i mean, when i was a lonely back in my days of wage slavery, director of planned e-giving i was in at will employees, which means you can end it like you said, you could end at any time and so can they like, if they don’t like the color of your tie one day they can fire you, you’re at will. But but that that’s typical for for ceos and executive directors. Yeah, i think for smaller non-profits it’s very, very common. Oh, i just always assumed that these were contract positions with termination clause is and no, okay, but, i mean, you know, it’s, your practice, i’m not i’m not disagreeing with you, i’m just saying i’m okay, i’m learning something s o that’s that’s incredibly risky. So it is. It put you in that position of saying, well, i need to replace somebody immediately and i don’t you know, as a board we don’t meet very often can we even convene within the two weeks to start the process going? It’s going to be so much better if you had a plan of what happens in case you know, our executive every doesn’t give two weeks notice, and even if the executive says, you know, in your scenario, maybe a longer notice, maybe, you know, in six months, if they do have a contract at the end of my contract, i don’t plan to renew, you know, i think we should go through the process of looking for for a successor and having a plan or thinking about that plan that have just coming up with something on the fly is going to probably result in a much better choice for selection of a leader in the future and that’s going to be critical and how well the organisation operates and how the beneficiaries of your organization are going to do are they going to get the benefits of a strong organization, or are they going to suffer because the organization can’t do it? You can’t advance to commission as well as it should? No, i mean, you’re you’re calling it on the fly. I would say two weeks notice for an executive director, departing is a crisis, even four weeks notice. Yeah, in many cases, you’re absolutely right. Okay, i’m right about something. Thank you. You’ve got something right today. All right. So, um what do we what do we do, teo, to plan for this? Well, you know, i think the first thing the board has to do is start toe think about the contingencies. So what do we do and and actually want one thought that comes to mind that, uh, that you raised tony is should we get our executive director on an employment contract? If they are and that will employee do we want to walk it in? And they’re sort of pros and cons with that? If you’ve got, like, not the best executive director in the world, terminating somebody on a contract becomes much, much more difficult than if they were at will employees. So, you know, you kind of have to weigh the pros and cons, but, you know, revisiting your current executive director and the employment relationship is maybe step one, and suddenly he was thinking about, well, do you have a really strong job description that really reflects what the board wants of the executive director and the basis on which the board is reviewing the executives performance? And maybe the sort of initial question to ask in that area is do you actually review? The executive director and that the board you absolutely should. You and i have talked about that the board’s is not part of their fiduciary duty to evaluate the performance of the the ceo? Yeah, i think so. I think it’s a core part of meeting their fiduciary duties that really, you know, as a board, if you meet once a month or once every couple of months or whatever. What’s more important, you know, then really selecting the individual who’s going to lead the organization in advancing its mission and its values, and implementing your plans and policies and making sure the organization complies with the law. Taking your leader is probably the most important task that the board has, because the board is delegating management to the to that leader. Yeah, absolutely. And i think it’s often forgot naralo overlooked that individual board members inherently have no power and no authority to do anything so it’s only a group when they meet collectively, can they take aboard action? So for individuals to exercise, you know, powers on behalf of the organization that has to be delegated to them and typically the person responsible for everything is that ceo or the executive director. We’re gonna go out for a break, gene. And when we come back, you now keep talking about the process. The what? What goes into this process, including the job offer. So everybody stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets too. He finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Time. Dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Got to send live listener love let’s. Start in japan with tokyo kiss or a zoo and nagoya. Konnichiwa, seoul, south korea, seoul, some someone south korea, always checking in love that anya haserot. Moscow, russia, mexico city, mexico, ireland. We can’t see your city ireland’s being masked for some reason, but we know you’re there. Welcome, welcome, ireland, and also taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, nobody from china, that’s, funny, nobody from china today, coming back to the u s we got cummings, georgia, in ashburn, virginia. Live listener love to you in georgia and virginia. Okay, gene. So now we’ve let’s say, we’ve learned that our exec is departing and let’s not make it a crisis situation, though let’s say this person is generous enough to give six months notice. So, you know, let’s, not make it a crisis. Where what’s our what’s, our what’s, our first step as the board. Terrific. And i’ll just add, even if you don’t, if you know your executive is not leaving any time soon and i think you should go ahead and start this process anyway. Oh, yeah, clearly we should be. We should have a succession plan in place. Yes, we’ve talked about it, right? Okay, yes, i think the first thing to do is get a committee together so it might include boardmember some outside experts outside with the board. If you don’t have that internal expertise and just getting different perspectives out there, some of your other stakeholders might be really important in what? You know what you want to look for in an executive in the future. So get that committee together first. Get the buy-in of the current executive director bonem so unless it’s going to be, you know, a succession plan for a termination? Yeah, we’re really unhappy with executive director, right? Let’s not get into that. Yeah, let’s get their buy-in and have them help in the process. Especially with your scenario where they’re giving us six months notice and everything is amicable. Let’s, you know, see she who knows better about the organization than the executive director that’s in place right now. So i’m getting there buy-in and help and contribution. I think it is pivotal. Does this committee have to be comprised of hr experts? Why? I think having a least one or two hr experts is going to be really helpful. But i i think it’s more than that. It’s, you need to program people who understand what the executive you know roll is with respect to advancing the program. You need the fund-raising people to know well, what is the going to do with respect to fund-raising perhaps the seeds, the lead fundraiser and some small organizations as well. So we need thio gather a bunch of different people with different perspectives and expertise to figure this out. And i think that’s a very good point to include a t least a programme expert. Now, could this committee include employees, or does it have to be sure you can i absolutely on dh, you know, you might even have have have different subcommittees in there. So eventually this is going to go up to the board. But as the the committee is doing the legwork for determining what you need an executive director and putting together a job description and, you know, perhaps, but the performance evaluation is going to be based on for the future executive director all those things can get, you know, be be aided by the contribution from several areas. Okay, okay, what are your thoughts on hiring a recruiter vs vs? Not well, you know, i think it depends upon what the organization’s resource is our and the organization should understand the marketplaces in a swell hiring two great executive director is the competitive thing, so, you know, if you’ve got a lot of resources and you’re able to you want to allocate an appropriate amount of resource is tio what i think again is making one of your most important decisions of the board? I don’t think you want to do this on the cheap at all. I’m just the same way i didn’t want you to do it on the fly or or or are in a rush matter-ness think you want to invest in this and you don’t have great expertise inside about things, about like, doing job interviews and doing background checks. On the sex thing, you know how to differentiate between one candidate and another when they all look good on paper and when they’re maybe professional interviewees, but they’re not. There may be not great leaders. How do you figure all those things that if you don’t know that on executive search firm could be a great help and it can just open up the marketplace of potential candidates as well? Especially if they, you know, decide to do a regional or even a national search, it really can ramp up hu hu you’re going see in front of you and the quality of the candidates that this election comedian the board eventually will have to choose from. Okay, does the committee now come up with a couple of candidates to bring to the board? Or is it better for the committee to choose one and bring that person to the board? How does this work? You know, i think the committee should be tasked with bringing several candidates up on sometimes it may be a multi tiered process so they might go through two rounds of screening, for example, and and at least let the board see who’s made. The first cut, and then and then, you know, present to the board, the final, perhaps two or three candidates. If you’ve got, you know, ones that are very close and in quality in terms of what the board want in an executive director, i think that’s pivotal. I wanted to add one thing, though. I’ve seen this done before, tony and i don’t really like it and that’s when. If a search committee or search consultant comes up and says, you know, to the board, tell me what you want in a good executive director, everybody you know, spend five minutes, write it down and send it to me, or you take it home and email it to me and tell me what you want. And then the search consultant collates the the the answers and then that’s, you know, the decision about that’s what’s going to be the qualities you’re going to look for. I think this needs a lot of discussion and deliberation and the value of, you know that that thought process and that really difficult thinking and getting all those generative questions out there is going to produce a much better product in terms of what you’re looking for and who you can get and how you’re going to do it. Yeah, you you send this tio use email and, you know, it’s going to get the typical attention that an e mail gets, like a minute or something, you know, it’s it’s going to get short shrift. And your point is that this is critical. It’s it’s, the leader of your organization you want do you want the contributions of the committee to be done in, like, a minute off the top of their head just so they can get the email out there in box? Yeah, definitely. We could talk about board meetings and another show, but put this at the front of the meeting and spend, you know, seventy five percent of your time talking about this. This is really, really important, okay, you have some thoughts about compensation, and we just have a couple minutes left. So let’s let’s say we’ve the board has well, i can’t jump there yet. Who should make the final call among these candidates? Is it the board? Yeah, i think it should be the board that makes the final approval, but they they’re going to put a lot of weight based on what the executive of the search committee, you know, tell them who they’re you know, the recommendation is okay, and i think that toe add one more thing to it is make sure the organization looks good to clean up your paperwork and your programming and even your facilities. Just make sure you’re going to be attractive to the candidate as well, because if you want to attract the best, you better be looking your best as well. Okay, okay. And the with respect to compensation now, we’ve talked about this before. What? What’s excessive. And there should be calms and things like that, right? So it’s really important to make sure that the board or unauthorized board committee one that composed just board members, approved the compensation before it’s offered to the candidate. Even if you don’t know that they’re going accepted or not, once he offers out there that compensation package, total compensation should have been approved by the board. And you want to do it with using the rebuttable presumption of reasonableness procedures unless you know its far below market value. Okay, if you get payed accessibly or if you pay somebody excessively, there could be penalty taxes for everybody. Including the board. Should be careful of that. We have talked about that rebuttable presumption before. Yeah. All right, jean, we have to leave that there. I look forward to talking to you next week on the two hundredth great. Congratulations again. And i look forward to it as well. Thank you, gene. Gene takagi, managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group, his blog’s non-profit law block dot com, and on twitter. He is at g tak next week. Social change. Anytime, everywhere, part one with our social media contributor, amy sample ward. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com creative producer is clear. Myer half family bullets is the line producer durney mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for April 21, 2017: Donor Story Secrets & Social For Your Events

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Claire Meyerhoff: Donor Story Secrets

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Amy Sample Ward: Social For Your Events

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Amy Sample Ward returns! We’ll recap the 2017 Nonprofit Technology Conference, then she’ll share her strategies for integrating social media into your events, before, during and after. Amy is our social media contributor and CEO of NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network.

 


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Okay. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week. Todd palin ac he blogged five websites every n f p c e o should utilize and non-profit radio is number two. Todd, come on, number two. I mean, we were in the top two, but you know and utilize i don’t you let you know how about gush over or visit every week utilized it’s a little a little stiff sounding, but todd, i’m grateful anyway. He blogged this at fist two five dot com fifty fives fist teo fist two fives. Purpose is to help non-profit to be more businesslike and help for-profit sz be more socially responsible. That’s very cool. Congratulations, todd. Paula neck on being our listener of the week, my voice just cracked oh, you know that i’m glad you’re with me because i get slapped with geo trick. Oh, sis, if you tried to milk the idea that you missed today’s show donorsearch story secrets claire meyerhoff returns when it’s time to write another donor profile for your website newsletter or facebook, you’ll be glad. You heard claire’s time saving tips for producing high quality donor-centric content she’s, our creative producer right here in non-profit radio and president of the planned e-giving agency and social for your events. Amy sample ward returns we’ll recap twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference then she’ll share her strategies for integrating social media into your events before, during and after amy’s our social media contributor and ceo of n ten the non-profit technology network on tony take two how to pitch non-profit radio we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com. What a pleasure to welcome claire meyerhoff back to the studio. She is a philanthropy communications and marketing specialist and president of the planned e-giving agency she guessed blog’s at non-profit marketing guide dot com and i’m going to say it again and it’s probably not the last time she is non-profit radios, creative producer, you’ll find her at pg agency dot com and at claire says that’s. Easy dankmyer off. Welcome back to the studio. Thanks so much, tony it’s great to be here. It’s a pleasure. Thank you, guys. So glad these shoes these trips work out for us. Yes. I love coming to new york city and coming to the crystal studio and being on talking alternative the crystal studio we are surrounded. We’re surrounded by crystals. Yeah, it’s a good, good, you know, energy, i agree. We got and you bring energy to you. Do you bring that radio expertise? That energy? Okay, we’re talking about donorsearch tory’s. What do you feel like non-profits or not getting quite right about when they write a donor story. Don’t testimony? Well, i’ve i’ve i’ve written many, many, many donorsearch tory’s, but i’ve read even mohr donorsearch tory’s that’s part of my job. So i’ll go on a client’s website or a potential clients website, and i start reading a donor story and typically they fall into several categories. But the worst one is is what we call gushing flackery, where you’re just like gushing over the person and you’re acting almost like their pr flack that you’re trying to promote them. It’s like two promotional and it’s about to many different things and not really about, you know why this donor cares about your cause? If we want to do this correctly, you you advise that we start with recognizing our goal for the for this piece, right? So what’s the goal of your piece? Are you trying to show that that donors are putting your charity? And there will that’s a great reason for doing a donor story? Because it’s social proof it makes it really normalizes plan giving social proof? Yeah, social proof. So you have a lovely donor-centric looting your charity in her will, and now you want to feature her. So your goal really of that is to show her in a really nice light so that she likes the story but also to normalize this concept of putting a charity and your will and encouraging other people to do it. So it’s a very simple goal. The goal isn’t about telling her life story or writing a biography about her or gushing over her to make her feel good, perhaps because my friends and fund-raising they say, well, you know, i want to make sure you know, that she looks good and, you know, make her feel good because they’re all about that, but frankly, that makes for, like, a really kind of boring, weird that’s. A poe story. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you do want them to feel good about the piece. Clearly, but that’s not your primary goal. No. Your primary goal of the donor’s story. Yes. It’s a bit about stewardship like you’re thanking the donor, my featuring them. But your primary goal is really to put a face on your philanthropy and to encourage other people to do a similar thing that this person has done precisely. Okay. I like the idea of social proof a lot more about that. What’s up. Well, social proof is just proving that something is normal. I liketo almost call it more like normalizing ilsen social proof. So if you say, you know, if you see ah, lady and you’re in your annual report and she’s, a retired teacher, and she lives, you know, in greenwich village or whatever, and you work for a big, fancy new york city charity and you feature this lady and she’s, a retired teacher and she’s normal. Then someone reading that will be like, well, gosh, that’s, that’s normal she and she went and put this charity in her will. That’s not like a strange thing, it’s not for rich people, you know, it’s, not just for, you know, big time philantech are everyday people, and you might be doing this for plan to give ah, encouragement or major gift major, it could even be i don’t know how that could be an annual e-giving e-giving unnamed naming a scholarship or something like that. So that’s a great donorsearch ori. So say your your small college and you have a nice person who has given you an outright donation maybe if a few thousand dollars, but also included the college and their will, and you’ve created a scholarship in his name. You get after his father and you write up this little story about why he cares and what he’s doing and then that’s your social proof right there, this normal person did this precisely. I mean, for trying to encourage others. It’s probably better to include someone to do this around someone who’s a modest donorsearch modest means because you’re going to appeal to a much broader spectrum, then the high net worth donor-centric purpose. Well, that’s interesting, too. About the highway high net worth donorsearch event are you? Viewed a lot of very wealthy people and it’s funny because one of the typical things they’ll say to me is they’ll say, so you’re going to write this story. So what is it going to be like? And i tell them a little bit and then they go, they kind of whispered there, go just don’t make me look rich. Yeah, because nobody wants to come across like they’re bragging about their money and the donorsearch story is something that they should feel good about sharing with someone and if it’s this like bragging story or about how these people own all these office buildings and they’re huge philanthropists, they’re not going to want to show that to their friends. Because it’s a little embarrassing for most people, there are some people who are there are some things one articular, but yeah, most people are very modest. That’s true. I agree. I’m not screwing with you, right? I can think of ah one recent ah, recently popular guy. Um all right, i’ll tell you what, why don’t we go out for our break? And when we come back, they’re not going to keep talking about the donorsearch ori and we’ve got to talk about who to select and the donor photo and she’s got tips for interviewing, so stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamental lt’s, a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love this moment. Andi were bursting, uh, let’s, start abroad. Mexico city, mexico cattle. What what is what? We’re going to start as point a star days, of course, when it started seoul, south korea, always multiple. We’ve got multiple south korea, always, always so grateful for that. Loyalty that’s the word i’m looking for on your haserot comes a ham nida for our listeners in seoul live germany, they got multiple in germany. Guten tag new delhi, india is with us checking in new delhi you’ve been with us before, i can only send you live listen love in english, i’m sorry i’m not not prepared, but don’t but come back, come back and we’ll get it okay, bring it into the u s, tampa, florida, woodbridge, new jersey, multiple new york city love it and over mass boston, mass whoa, do you know each other live listener love to all the live listeners, and they’re bursting first thing today, i got to say podcast pleasantries for the over twelve thousand listening in the time shift, whatever device, whatever time, whenever it fits your schedule, you might be listening a month later. Binge listening pleasantries toe are over twelve thousand podcast listeners so glad you’re with us and the affiliate affections last, but never least on our am and fm stations throughout the country and our new am fm outreach director. Of course, of course, betty mcardle, who will shout out at the end affections to our live two hour am and fm affiliate listeners fremery if you done facebooking now and everything when i see you with your phone, social media is very important said it well, and so is the live listen love in the podcast pleasantries in philly defections i can multi task i’ve got to send this stuff out. Um, how about through, though, to choose? How do we how do we make sure we’re getting the right donor that’s goingto give us the best story and be the most cooperative, et cetera? Well, when you’re writing a donor story typically you want to choose someone typically what fundraisers do is they want to smooth somebody, so they know i wanted i want to feature this donor mary lou she’s, great she’s this she’s got a great story and they go on and on about all this stuff, but then when i find out a little bit later is she might not be the best person, and then i’ll hear a funny thing that the the fundraiser will say, well, she’ll do it, but she just doesn’t want to use her name. What? She may not be the best thing i think we need to move on anonymous and anonymous has been very sweet to us a very thoughtful right. So it’s it’s really important to choose someone? That’s that’s, that’s really game that wants to do it, willing to use their name, they’re willing to use their name. They understand the concept of doing the donor’s story. They understand that they’re photo is going to be used to that it’s going to be connected with an ask of some sort. And in an action of some sort it’s gonna be a little bit like an advertisement, maybe and some people don’t don’t realize that they might think, oh, it’s a donor story it’s going to be a story about my family and where we come from and, you know, the real vikings and no, okay, it’s, not just a story perception. So it’s good to have to choose a donor who is basically number one like a really nice, friendly person, outgoing person or even not outgoing person who just really cares about your cause and gets what gets what you’re doing so that’s number one they should really care about the cause and really understand the whole point of of this. Donorsearch torrey and of course, yes, they wanted you want to use their name and take a photograph and all that, okay, now they’re going to have a role in the process, right? Of course they’re going to be able to review what you write typically typically sometimes they will review what you write so so the best thing for sort of the the approval process, which can things can get hung up with that so let’s say you’re in charge of of writing the story and you’ve selected this donor and asked her if she would like to participate. It’s really great if you can show her an example of a previous donor story and say it’s going to be a lot like this it’s going to be about this many words and the photo is going to be something like this and it’s going to be in this spot in the magazine and it’s going to be a lot like this, so then they understand what’s going on and also you’re going to say to them, it’s going to be very brief because that’s really the best way to kind of keep this thing from going out of control how many words? Roughly you could do a donor shoretz like seventy five words that short? No, sure. Because that’s really what it’s mostly about is a really good photograph and kind of just this little testimonial. It’s basically, the why they care. Like why they did this, why they care so much. And then it’s maybe like, you know, one or two little fact it’s a very short story. And then you need your call to action at the end. Basically. Well, not what do you want people to dio? Do you want people to do what mary did? Mary started a scholarship. Are you interested in doing that, then? You know, call contact through intact durney martignetti you mentioned a photo on your your advice is to focus on the photo. What do you have around that? I really believe it’s it’s photo it’s almost photo first story second, because too often the fur photo is just a complete afterthought and a disaster. So you have this wonderful story. And then at the last minute, thie fundraiser gets a photo from the person and it’s a little like a dime sized photograph from, like a cruise have a digital and they just sort of stick the photo and its terrible or or they just base, maybe snap a photo with their iphone of this older person just like sitting in a chair looking kind of, you know, pathetic and and it’s sad it doesn’t have to be like that. So i really encourage people to hire a professional photographer because this’s also a wonderful way to steward your donor. So maybe for one hundred dollars or one hundred fifty dollars, you can hyre ah, local photographer, and then you can go over to the person’s house or have them come over to your organization if you have something photographic like dogs or kids or something. And and, you know, take some really nice photographs of this person, and then they feel important because you’ve hired this photographer and you’re doing something quality and then after it, of course, you can also, you know, make a copy of one of the nice photos and frame it on dh send us with them and say you might you might like to have this. Thank you so much for helping us out. You know, the photograph is really, really important. And if you can’t have the have the photograph of the donor doing something that’s related to your cause old holding, one of the animals holding an animal or for furat nature organization at the very least have them standing, you know, in their yard near their favorite tree or something, and so it’s it’s you, khun stage that photo just a little bit and do something really nice. So put a lot more thought into the phone absolutely put a lot of thought into the photo, and when you’re choosing a donor, think about someone who would like to be photographed. Perhaps they’ve already been in a local newspaper about something else, and you know that about them, so they already kind of know what’s going on? Cool, not scary to them. When you’re interviewing them, you have some tips for interviews. I do have some some tip, even that we’re gonna do this let’s say, we’re going to keep this to a seventy five word, seventy five to one hundred. I’ll give you an extra twenty five words. Seventy five, two hundred words is what we want is that all the space we have? So how do we fashion our interview around that well, it’s it’s really very simple, and it almost come down to one one question, and if you ask no other questions you could kind of be done at, you know, with the one question, so let’s say, tony, you’ve been donating to this animal shelter for a very long time need a drumroll for them? Yeah, and and you’ve included the animal shelter in the will. The question would be tony, what? Why is this call is so important to you that you’ve done this wonderful thing? You’ve taken this major step of including the charity and, well, why is why is it so important to you? And should we be recording while we’re interviewing? You don’t really need to record just good notes, just good notes, because really, you’re just looking for that money quote, you’re looking for that one quote, and usually you get it right off the bat with that first question of why do you care? And ah, mistake people make is they they say, well, why do you care about the you know, riverdale animal shelter? Well, it’s not why you care about that shelter, it’s, why you care about the cause. So, it’s, why do you care about homeless man’s? Why do you care about illiteracy? Why do you care about feeding? You know, people that need, you know, a hot meal. Why do you care about homeless people? Why do you care about cancer research? Why do you care about this college? So it’s it’s? Not really. Why you care about, you know, the organization per se or your mission. It’s it’s about it’s really about the call cause you want them thinking broader, right? And you go and you’re going to get some kind of good pull, quote, this is what you’re looking for that little money quote you mentioned, right? So for instance, i interviewed a man who we featured for parkinson’s organization. So it’s not the question wasn’t well, why do you care? You know, why do you care so much about the parkinson’s foundation? It’s well, why do you care about you know, parkinson’s? And he told me the story about his mother, who had parkinson’s when he was a little boy and how, you know, her hands shook but then when she would take his hand to cross the street her hand didn’t shake and fell, and he felt safe and that’s the quote i used was something right in there about that he wanted to make sure that everyone, you know felt safe that had someone in their family with parkinson’s and just nice little quote about that. So it’s it’s really about the wide the person cares about your cause, not about the mission. So that’s really all you kind of need to ask them, and now they’ll tell you they’ll say, well, you know, years ago i was a schoolteacher and i had children who came to my class and they hadn’t had breakfast, and i really got interested in, you know, school nutrition programs, and so it goes, it goes from there, so usually they have a little story, and then once you’ve chatted for a little while, a great thing to do is at the end of your conversation is to say, is there anything else you’d like to add? Is there? Is there anything else you’d like to say? And typically the person will say no, but and then after the but you get your best quote, really? They’ll say no, but i really want people. To know that in in this town there’s a big problem with, you know, ah, litter and that’s why i really care so much about this cleanup program like they will, you will have talked to them for five minutes and more and it again. Now at the end, they will consolidate their best. They’re best quote, and i know this from working in radio for many years, being a radio reporter, so you would interview somebody, and then at the end, you’d say, is there anything you’d like to add? And they would very succinctly say everything you’ve ever talked about for the last five minutes and that’s your sound bite, okay? And it’s right at the end and it’s, easy to grab. So that’s that’s how i know that. So that’s your best sound bite, really? And usually you’re best quote comes at the end when you say anything else you’d like to add well, no, but i you know, i really want people to know x y that’s it there. You got it. Cool. Thie like, protect, protect, protect for interviewing. Well, my, you know, my profession was i was a reporter and a news writer. And and basically you’re telling stories and it’s it’s journalism so it’s just another form of journalism, and when you’re a journalist, number one is faxing your friends so it’s about facts and quotes. So when you’re writing your story, if you just stick to facts and quotes, when you go to get it approved by your boss and they want to rewrite the whole thing, you can say, well, no, actually that’s a direct quote, and i’ve had i’ve had clients, is there? Bosco well, can we have her say this instead? I said, well, no that’s what she said, she’s, the donor and that that’s what she said she likes that. So if you stick to just direct quotes from the donor and a couple of little facts like, you know, she’s named the charity in her estate plans that’s a fact, and you’re not sort of screwing that up because thie approval process things can get a little hinky. Okay, and don’t forget the approval have are writing what you have some ideas for our actually writing we talked about we talked about a brief quote. Courts are good. Yeah, what for? Writing there was sitting down and writing these hundred writing for writing, you know it’s it’s keeping it brief and also, you know, i say to write light, bright and tight and typically your readers they khun tune out at any minute so you you should ride in a one on one engaging style so it’s a very personal style it’s not like bunch of flowery language and extra words. Is that the light? That’s the light so you wantto cubine sure what’s like bright tighten your right and tight and sure so it’s it’s, it’s it’s a light story it’s. Not a heavy duty, you know, four hundred word four hundred words. You know what? You’re not writing a book about the person and again it’s. Not about like where they went to college. Unless it’s, you know, there’s a for your college. But it’s not about, you know, all these things that the person does cause i i read this all the time and the funny one that always gets me is at the beginning. It’ll say john smith is a great philanthropist in our community and a very well known, you know, person who sat on many boards and all that that’s like the first thing they tell you is it’s sort of this list of this person’s credentials and that’s not interesting to the reader, and it doesn’t make the donor look that good. They don’t want to share that with people that you’re sort of, you know, boasting about it, segregates the reader from g i’m not on all those boards, right? So i guess i can’t i can’t do what john did because he’s a well known philanthropist. Exactly. I only give a couple hundred dollars a year. So right, this doesn’t apply to me. Turn the page writer that’s for those kind of nickels. That’s for those kind of people who sit on a lot of boys is a lot of boards, right? That’s. Not nice. Okay. Like brighton tight. Yeah, like brighton type. Keep it really short. Basically it’s it’s about the why and it’s about why the person is taking this action. And then at the end, you want to make sure you have a call to action. Which is to say, you know, would you be interested in naming a scholarship here? It smith college when, you know, give us a call. So you want to you want to do that so it’s in your headline should be should be a good little headline and what i like to, i’d like to make the joke that says a donor story is not a headline there’s a lot of times i’ll see that in a in a in an annual report or or a newsletter and says donorsearch torrey, well, no, well, that’s like saying, you know, mcdonald’s is like, you know, a burger store. Thank you. So the dahna story that’s a category that’s, just something we say, like what’s our donorsearch torrey next month, but it’s not it’s, not a headline, so have a good headline and have a nice view could do a nice pull quote that you pull out and make it bigger and then looks good and then you’re called to action and those things should be, you know, bolted because that might be all the reader reads. They see the photograph, they read the headline, they see the pull quote and then they see the call to action and they might not even really read the story. But there’s still getting the message? They’re still getting the idea we’re asking about. The headline should should that focus on the donor or the reader like something like you can do this also? I mean in that category, i’m not saying that’s a headline or it doesn’t really matter how you well, a good line headline is something that grabs the person’s interest in my little i’m not a great headline writer so might cheat for a headline is like a quote from the story because it’s something the person said so it’s it’s hygienist donorsearch ori with a woman in grand rapids, michigan, for the community foundation and it was a great photograph of her, and the headline was, quote, i will oh, i will always love grand rapids because that’s, what it’s about she put grant rapids in her will and then it’s about caring about this whole city and the community that’s why people support community foundations because they really care about their community and the causes in their community. So i that kind of like my little cheat thing is to go to take a quote and make that the headline all right, now you mention the approval process a few times, so i can imagine you’re hankering to get to the approval process. Now we got our thing written. What? We’re going what’s your advice around the approval well, the approval process because this is where things get ruined. This is where things get in the edit in the edit, people, somebody. Now we got a reading by committed and e i would just keep it to few people as possible. And so my tricks for getting things approved is to just give it to, you know, my client and they give it to their boss and and i’ll say something like this is exactly eighty five words, it can’t be any longer, it has to be eighty five words, and then people are less likely to tinker with it because they can’t write it as short as i can, or a short as you can, because you’ve really given a lot of thought to this story, so the boss might try to tinker with it. But well, now it’s one hundred seventy five words and you know, it can’t be that so i had like, a strict word count and tell them that that it has to be that word count. So that’s the number one trick. And the second thing is, if you stick with quotes and facts, there’s less to tinker with, so you don’t want to start writing all this other flowery stuff. You just want to stick to stick to the facts and stick to the quote, stick to what the person said, and then it’s a lot harder to tinker with. Ok, right? And then after you’ve gone through your internal review, hopefully briefly, it goes to the subject to the r to our donor, it goes to the donor first. This is another secret about dahna for goes to the donor first, they’ve already donorsearch already approved it. They loved it. They can’t wait to see it in the newsletter, and then your boss is like, but but all the donor mow mrs smith, she just loves this so much when it be great. When it when it’s printed, we could frame it and give it to her. She loves and she loves it. I don’t think we should mess with it. She loves it. She loves it. It’s, dirty pool. I love it. Well, you have got a job, neo-sage she loves it. Touch it. We love she loves it. It’s close she’s, so proud of it she’s already sent it to her daughter. I imagine that it also rich thieves could be multi purposed, right? We can use this in some other marketsmart ocean ways, you know, once you have a great donorsearch torrey, you should use it over and over again. And when i come into an organization and we need thio ah feature a donor. Ah lot of times i’ll hear well, we already used, you know, mr jones last year, and i’m like no, but that’s a great story. We already have these great quotes from him. We have this beautiful photograph, he’ll, you know, he was cool with it, he loved to use it again. Oh, but we already used him and and i always say, well, you know, maybe people read that a year ago and hung on to every single word of it, and maybe now they’ll see him again in this different way, and they’ll just go, oh, there’s that nice guy so it’s ok, because typically people didn’t even read it the first time they’d even notice it the first time they’re not hanging onto your every word of your non-profit. Newsletters. I got news for you. Filed it. Then they’re comparing each one two that’s up to the old. Exactly. Let’s go march of twenty twelve that you guys five years ago. You believe that because that our quarterly report from five years ago. So if you already have a great donorsearch torrey, you can you can repurpose that. And sometimes it’s just pulling out a quote, taking the picture, cropping that a little bit differently and you can use it many different ways. Now you can put that on facebook or you can use it somewhere else. And a great way to repurpose a donor story is to is to flip it and turn it into a pier letter so let’s say, you know john smith, come ah it’s a long time donorsearch organization. You could craft a letter from him based on what he’s already said. And you write the letter from his voice. Two other donors like him. So let’s say he lives in a certain neighborhood and he, you know, you could craft the letter saying, like, oh, dear bob, you know, i also live in this neighborhood and i recently did a great thing i updated my will and included thie, you know, clean up the river foundation. Is that something you’d consider doing? And so that way, you already have the content. He’s already agreed to be in this newsletter or whatever, and you can show him that and say, hey, look, could we would like to send a letter from you two other people? We don’t even have to bother you again with interviewing you again because people don’t want to bother to be bothered a second time for a second interviewed you have the content you need, we gotta leave it. We’re gonna lose their way. We will reuse it, we’re gonna leave it there tomorrow you’ll find her at pg agency dot com and also at claire says that’s easy. Thank you so much, claire morrow. Thank you, tony. My pleasure. Any sample ward and social for your events coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got another free webinar it’s. Amazing how much free content they’re producing for you. This is howto win at data driven fund-raising get a handle on your data data for goodness sake. People are overwhelmed by data data data. What do you need to measure? How do? You measure it, what actions do you need to take? Based on your data? You don’t need to be overwhelmed. Webinar will help you pursue it has your back? This is on tuesday, the twenty fifth and if you can’t make it because a lot of people listening later, um, i’ll let you know when the video is up. There’s always an archive for you. If you want to register for the live webinar, go to pursuant dot com quick resource is and then webinars and again it is howto win at data driven fund-raising we’ll be spelling spelling bees for millennial fund-raising it’s a night with live music, stand up comedy, dancing and a spelling bee all for the purpose of raising money for your work. This is not your seventh grade spelling me. You could check out their video at we b e spelling dot com and then get in touch with the ceo alex greer and book a fun night for your organisation. This is organization specific. Not a bunch of org’s doing one night together. No, this is for your work reason money for your organization. We be e spelling dot com now time for tony’s. Take two if you want to pitch non-profit radio, please make it about non-profits small and midsize non-profits that’s who the show is for that’s who i have in mind as i produce it each week i got a pitch like two weeks ago, and first of all, it was long the woman talked for, like, seven or eight minutes, and at the very end of that diatribe came the part about non-profits it had nothing to do with non-profits leading up to that she’s, a food blogger, and it had to do with her eight million instagram impressions and i don’t know one hundred twenty thousand facebook likes whatever, you know, i mean, the numbers were high, i don’t high numbers aren’t all story. I mean, we know true engagement is important too, but all right, so she had a lot of lofty numbers anyway, but it was all about food, and then in the end ah, and i give part of the profits too. This international food charity, which i’m not going to name. Okay, so that was an eight minute story, and i got twenty seconds of a non-profit this is non-profit radio, not food blogger, radio i mean, it’s, not the food network. So off topic, to say the least and it’s not that uncommon that i get these, you know, that this is not a non-profit relationship or shoretz minuscule like, in this case, so if you’re gonna pitch non-profit radio make it about non-profits that’s all i ask, and then we may have something to talk about. Of course, i got a video on the subject and you’ll find that at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two amy step award. You know her she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of intend the non-profit technology network. Her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s that amy sample, ward dot or ge and at amy r s ward welcome back. Any sample word? Yeah, i am happy to be back. I’m happy to have you. Thank you so much for being with us and my voice just cracked again, much like i’m twelve it’s, unbelievable. And speaking of children with the first thing we got it before we get into anything related teo non-profit technology conference or social media for your own events. The more you just run that was talking about staying on topic. Well, yeah, but you’re going to appreciate this thing because oren louis sample ward has his one year birthday next saturday, the twenty ninth. Isn’t that the case? I know i’m tracking it. Happy birthday, orin. Thanks. What are the what of the festivities around the first birthday? Um, well, i guess we are not, um not in the judgment way. Just in a personal capacity and preference way not people. Teo, create a huge party. We mostly just want to have a day where folks who haven’t met him yet get to meet him or people who have met him. Get teo hangout and friends with kids can have their kids come over and they can all play together. So mostly just having an afternoon at our house with lots of people. That’s. Wonderful on open house. Yeah, wonderful. Congratulations. Thank you. Alright. Happy for orin next saturday. Wonderful. Nasty. Don’t you feel bad about admonishing me for staying on topic? No, i knew what you were going to say. You did? I didn’t tell you. All right. All right. You know i was you know, i’m keeping track of him. We’re going to say what? When i was going to say what? What do you mean? You just said what i was going to say. Oh, okay, then. Let’s, move on. Teo. Seventeen ntcdinosaur was a smashing success with well over two thousand people there. The non-profit oh, my gosh. Yeah. I think our final count, i should go look this up before i say it on the radio. But i think our final count was, like two thousand three hundred and thirty people. Wonderful and that’s, the largest ever. Is that right? Okay, now, there’s more to the story than just how many people come. You could have a crummy conference with twenty, three hundred on everybody next year. You have know it was really, really awesome. Yeah. Tell us tons of tons of people making connection, which is ultimately what we want. You know, we can we can plan well in advance for there to be lots of sessions and, you know, lots of activities. But the reason that we planned all that so that people can find what they need, whether that somebody that they can commiserating with or somebody that they could work with or on expert to help them understand what they’re working on a vendor that has that platform they’ve been looking for, you know, whatever those connections are. So we were really, really happy that so many of those connections were happening just even right from the very beginning. And that was kind of a big theme of people’s evaluation. Feedback this year, too, was just oh, my gosh. You know, this i came thinking that i would go to some sessions and learn some things. And i had no idea that actually i would meet all these people and i would have all these ideas and come. I have all these folks that i wanted, you know, follow-up with our state connected with so that felt really, really great. Fell like a good success. Outstanding. Congratulations. Thank you. Eighteen ntcdinosaur that eighty, ninety is twenty eighteen. Is april eleven through thirteen that’ll be in new orleans. Okay, back in the central uru. Always rotate east, central and west. Right. Okay, central new orleans. Okay. Excellent, april. All right. Um, so let’s, talk about social. This is a perfect segway and a perfect you’re the perfect person to do. This because you’re our social media contributor and you hostess fact, those event every single year as and ten does let’s talk about some social you’ve got some ideas for before the event, what to be doing? Yeah, so figured since we just had the mtc and it is such a big event and as we always remind ourselves here and in ten were a technology organization, so we should be able to figure some of these things out one at a time kind of share the behind the scenes secrets and practises and things that we’ve learned from kind of integrating social media. So just just say that at the beginning, in case listeners are like, gosh, these all of these examples are about the ntc that’s intentional trying, trying to share what we dio putting on that big conference so ahead of the event, you know? And when i say ahead of the event, i mean, about a year ahead of the event, we start the planning around content and that includes social media, but as we’ve talked about before, tony, you and i, you know, social media can’t just exist a little separate thing, you know, you don’t just have your facebook plan over there by itself, you have your community engagement plan and you’re content plans and those include social media where it makes sense. So we start that planning basically as soon as this conference ended that next week, we had our debrief, which included let’s get started on you. No hear things that we learned this didn’t work on twitter or, you know, whatever so that we can start that planning while it’s still fresh on dh it’s going to take that long to plan it out anyway, and so part of what goes into that planning is what what opportunities did we notice for content that we weren’t creating at the conference, that we should think about it and kind of integrate into our plan? So we’re there folks who were tweeting from a session with how much they you know where into the topic and sharing their own examples even beyond what the presenters were sharing? Oh, that’s, awesome let’s kind of tag all those people now make a list of those folks now so that we can start engaging them ahead of time. Clearly, they got a lot out of it. Let’s, let’s engage them once registration opens, for example. So you’ll be finding those those folks who are already kind of engaged from this last conference. Sorry, what were you gonna say? Yes, so you might use them as sort of your back channels before you start or when you start promoting twenty eighteen. Is that what you mean? Well, i mean, two things one that there folks who personally did get a lot out of the conference. So even if they aren’t planning for whatever reason, budget or schedule or whatever to attend the next conference, what we’ve found is that those folks were really engaged and personally gained a lot from the previous year’s conference when registration opens are really, really open and love when we asked them to kind of use the session hashtag or the conference cash rather and kind of put out some testimonials in their own words like, what did you learn love about last year’s conference? Why should people go and people will post, you know, like a five part twitter message about why people should be going to this conference even if they’re not able to go that next year so that’s one piece is kind of making a list well, it’s fresh of who were the folks who really seemed engage, who really got a lot out of the content, they don’t have to be the people who are speakers, their sponsors are, you know, really high profile folks, they’re people that just really, genuinely got a lot out of it because they’re going to be sharing that really genuine kind of testimonial. That’s goingto connect with people who are also not speakers responses, but i just thinking about whether they should attend or not, you go excellent that’s smart, i mean, similar to what you were talking about in the first half of the show, right? Like you don’t need to profile somebody that other folks don’t feel is appear making sure that you’re connecting with those attendees who are just speaking from an attendee perspective. You know, i wasn’t speaking on the session, i haven’t been here ten years in a row, but that was my first year and it was amazing. And i want you two have that same experience and you know, they’re sharers because that’s how you flagged them because you aren’t you steal that they were using the session hashtag or the conference hashtag liberally and you found him so you know they’ll share oh, excellent. Okay, more pro tips love it. Yeah, but then the other part of kind of making that list is figuring out what what was prompting them to be doing that sharing at the conference, you know, was it just somebody who was really into a session and one of the share ideas? Or was there something going on for example? I mean, you’ve been to the conference, maybe you could help me with these examples, but for, you know, at lunchtime we have what we call birds of a feather lunchtime tables just topics on on top of tables for people to help make connections and meet folks, but then sometimes that prompts people to get really engaged on twitter because they don’t have a table, right? Like they never saw that opportunity and they never submitted a table topics, so they’re using the conference hashtag to try and attract other people who want to talk about something, okay, awesome! You know, there was a re a world thing happening in the room and they were on twitter, but so finding those other events or moments at the conference, that kind of prompted that so that we can think ahead, hey, you know, people turned to twitter to try and organize those tables. How can we plan for that ahead of time? Okay, okay, yeah, i guess maybe parochial e, but, you know, i used to pay special attention to the tweets of guests, and i’d be interviewing in the booth for non-profit reiter and and the fund that then then you know, they would treat the photos from the booth and everything like that while i was interviewing them and yeah, that’s, the stuff that i used to, i guess that was our little birds of a feather is what i was paying attention to. Yeah, another piece, um, that we’ve found kind of connecting from one year to the next is that we have at the conference a photo booth and take photos ourselves, you know, of the conference experience, but we also try and watch and kind of if it’s on twitter, for example, favorite that on twitter who confined it again are or just save the link of folks who are taking photos from the conference that a photo there is so much better than words or maybe we’re just not good at words the photos so much better at helping us kind of capture and demonstrate, especially to people who’ve never attended the ntc what it’s like? Because we like to think at least that our event is unique, and i’m sure that spokes listening think that their annual event, whether it’s a gala or a breakfast or whatever is also unique and using photos that attendees took themselves of the event is such a better kind of riel riel world view of what the experiences like. And we have found that even though there’s going to be things that are different, like what the science looks like or you know what, what the photo booth backdrop was, like, there’s going to be some of that? I guess you could call it branding that’s different year to year, but the experience we hope, is not significantly different. And so we’ve found that it doesn’t matter if one year’s photo booth photo had a robot theme and the next year had some other team and whatever but using those photos ahead of time, you know. It’s really, as soon as registration opens has helped people want to share and also has we’ve seen people what kind of share those photos or tweets that have the photo attached and say, oh, yeah, i did that, too, even though they’re not in the photo, right? So someone year the conference had a mechanical shark in our closing reception, and, you know, we posted a photo from that with somebody riding on the shark and said, no, we can’t wait to see next year, but blah registration is open, whatever, and then a bunch of people would share that i wrote on the shark to you have to go to this conference even though the shark had met him to dio really with anything tio help capture how excited they were for this community that’s cool, we’re not. We’re not jumping the shark, but definitely not jumping way to take our one break while you’re with me, so we got more to come because we’re gonna talk about what to do during the event with their social and then or after your event tons of pro tips, gosh sakes, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have for her. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. All right, we’re talking about social media during beef before, during and after your events with any sample work. All right, there’s one more thing i just want to touch on pre event on that’s very just a very small thing. Amy hashtag if you see erroneous hashtags like people doing ntcdinosaur teen instead of seventeen ntc or you know some other variations of what you what is the correct hashtag? What do you what do you do with that? We’ve found that it’s just gonna happen so it’s better to plan for that and assume that people are using the wrong hashtag and the more that we can help kind of redirect people ahead of the conference, the better they are during the conference that using the right hashtag, which is less like we want everybody using our hashtag and more because that really is how people are trying to make connections and chair and post with each other, and so if they’re using the wrong hashtag, they’re not going to feel like they were making a lot of connections. So what we do is we know that just as you said, they’re going to transpose that the number. And the letter order so that’s a big one that we track and then we’re also looking for writing the whole year out. So if you if you have, ah event that uses the hashtag with the year just seventeen also search for it with twenty seventeen all of those kind of little nuances and as people are posting, you know, this b six months ahead of time as they’re posting oh, you know, are you? Hey at tony martignetti are you going? Teo ntcdinosaur teen, we see that and we reply and say, oh, we hope that you’ll both be there. Be sure and use the hashtag eighteen ntc so that other attendees can find you and i just used that phrase all the time hey love that you’re connecting our hey, thanks for promoting the conference or hey, whatever it is you’re doing that’s great! Be sure and use the hashtag and connect with everybody else and it’s just a nice way to correct somebody but also makes it clear hey, we’re only correcting you because we do want you to be able to connect outstanding, very polite and i said, yeah, i know it’s awful it’s start for that’s it you we want you to find everybody else. We want people to find you exactly. Okay, let’s move, teo during event intra intra event, if you will during our event. Now, what are your ideas? What do you got now? This, you know, there, especially for a conference like ours. You know, we’re talking about the ntc, which is twenty, three hundred people all pretty plugged in on one device or another, so the volume can just be intense. Um, and even if you have a smaller event, that doesn’t mean that the volume isn’t still a lot to try and manage. What we’ve found is that we need to have at least one staff person at all times doesn’t mean it’s the same staff person twenty four seven, but one staff person, you know, wow, while it’s normal kind of conference waking hours online to monitor things and that it’s best if that person can be, you know, maybe you have ah, on office at the event, you know, ah, room that’s, not the registration desk or the customer service desk, because otherwise they’re just going to be answering questions in person, right and feeling like i can’t i can’t monitor what’s going on online, so putting somebody in a place where they can concentrate and it’s quiet and they could just monitor what’s going on because you’re going to just have to be listening in order to figure out where there are things that we need to be, you don’t hey there’s confusion around the session room can let’s just make a post about that? Because it’s just going to be too much to try and walk the halls and figure out what to say. You really need to be listening online, okay, that sounds like a traffic control duty zoho totally that’s when it feels dual stressful because you know again, at least with ntc, that person is monitoring twitter and facebook and our conference app and our conference online forum and email, you know, there, there it really is kind of air traffic control, and then if you see something well, you’ve got your walkie and you’re walking out to other staff. Hey, can you go check the sign? People are saying on twitter that the sign is wrong? You know really does feel like you’re kind of in the master control center. How many hours of those shifts? Normally about two at a time was one. It is a lot to try and do you know that you’d definitely need a break? Yeah, yeah, like traffic control now for sure. Okay, totally. Um, you have some ideas about screenshots, screenshots, content? Yeah, we’ve found that it’s one of the easiest ways, because you may remember during your two hour shift oh, they were just so many people talking about this thing, and i said, this is so and so, you know, replied in a gm and said this and, you know, and then later that night, with all staff, when we have our daily debrief, you might say, hey, there was a big issue with this, and i know folks didn’t see it, but it was on twitter and it got results, and then you have watched so many tweets come by during the day, you can’t remember who it was that said that you can’t remember who you promised to follow up with so it’s just easier to take a quick screen shot and save that and you can have a folder on your computer whatever computer you know, you kind of monitoring from that day that is like thieves with people i’m following up or here are examples of horrible things that happened today that we need to fix or, you know, here’s an example of ah, really awesome post from a session. Whatever it is, you can just be taking quick screen shot and save it instead of trying to write down the person’s name or figure out all the details. I just saved you a lot of time and and also lets you feel like you can just stay in that channel, right? You could just keep following twitter. You don’t need to go use some other tools and try and find that spreadsheet that you’re using. You could just stay focused. All right, i got you. All right, we just have about a minute and a half left aim so let’s move to post event on about what’s your what’s, your top tip post event that if i could just say one thing that remember that even though the event is over, all of that content is still there and attendees are still engaging, so don’t just say great conference over, we’re getting on a plane goodbye. And have your your various channels that just were at such a huge high volume go quiet instantly make sure that you’ve scheduled ahead of time. Some tweets or facebook post that say, you know, thanks again for an awesome event, maybe you have a photo that you pulled out already that can go in there. Thanks so much, you know, staffer offline today taking vacation after unconference whatever it is, just make sure that there’s still some content because even though you’re a tte home asleep, your attendings are back in the office and, you know, still looking to engage. Okay? Outstanding, um, i’ll give you thirty seconds for your number to post event tip that’s all that’s all i’m giving you. Yeah, one thing that we’ve found is that right afterwards is a huge opportunity to start building up mo mentum for next year, though some of those kind of tweets they’re post that you might schedule ahead of time are things like reminder, you know? Hey, add to your calendar. This is one registration for next year opens o r be sure that you have you start thinking about your session ideas because we’re going to open. Session submissions on this date was just kind of start ng tow put out, the timeline really helps capitalize on how excited folks are and how they how great they felt so that they want to take it forward to the next year. Amy sample ward she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of the non-profit technology network, you’ll find her at amy rs ward. Thank you so much, amy. Great pain, great pro tips next week, the trump presidency and your work what’s the impact roof mccambridge is with me she’s editor in chief of non-profit quarterly. You probably know her if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam leve lorts is a line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez and our music is by scott stein you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be green. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. It took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for November 11, 2016: How To Appeal To High Net Worth

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Melanie Schnoll Begun: How To Appeal To High Net Worth

What are the wealthy looking for as they check you out on their way to becoming a connector, board member, investor, donor or other supporter of your organization? Melanie Schnoll Begun leads Morgan Stanley’s philanthropy management.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of pyla, rale, gia, if i had the stomach, the idea that you missed today’s show how to appeal to high net worth. What are the wealthy looking for as they check you out on their way to becoming a connector boardmember investor? Melanie schnoll begun leads morgan stanley’s, philanthropy management tony’s take two mohr ntc video interviews responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com no additional begun she’s here in the studio she’s, the managing director of philanthropy management at morgan stanley. She works with the firm’s, wealthiest and most influential clients, including prominent business owners, venture capitalists, social entrepreneurs, professional athletes and entertainers, as well as foundations and non-profits she is the nominating chair and former board president of the juvenile diabetes research foundation, new york city chapter and vice president of the board of metropolitan college of new york. Melanie is also on advisory boards for the naomi berrie diabetes center and quinnipiac university law school. Welcome back, melanie metoo pleasure. It was it was april two thousand twelve. You were here a long time to for, like, for four and a half years ago or so you’re looking great. Good to have you. Well, i like that. Thank you. Absolutely need that every morning for now. You impressive bio. No book. I thought. In these four and a half years, you would have written a book by now. Well, you know what? What i’ve done in four and a half years, i’ve i’ve run eight more marathons. Is that impressive? Okay, that that’s ah, yeah that’s that’s a a run up to that, but i like to see a book that you like to see it, but now you’re doing the marathon this year, right? And getting the marrow, which means yes, we’re a little pre recorded about ten days or so, which means this sunday you’ll be running this sunday on behalf of a cause. So of course, i’d never just run twenty six point two miles for myself. I’m raising money and awareness for juvenile diabetes for jr of europe. Okay, you’re on the advisory board, right? New york city chuck’s correct. I was ah, president, but more important than that, i’m an owner and owner of the disease, so you’ve got to take a stand, right? You can’t just own a disease and allow other people to raise the money or awareness. You have toe roll up your sleeves like i do. Tow. Take insulin. Okay, you gotta go out. There and run and raise awareness and money. Was there a juvenile diabetes research foundation? When you first found out that you had diabetes, there was the organization’s been around for over forty two years, and i’d say that we’ve had our greatest success this year. So far, we have received fda approval for the artificial pancreas, which could be my life cloaking technology outstanding, right? An owner of the organization that feels magnificent feels magnificent, but it’s not a cure, right at the end of the lot of us owe our promise has always been better treatment, prevention and a cure. So you know another device to wear in your bodies, you know, another device to wear in your body. There was just something in the times i think is today that so many of the the health that cause related non-profits are now seeking cures rather than just counseling and support on howto live with the disease. Yeah, i think that was just in today’s times. Yeah, yeah, it was it was the right article. Greater. Alright, so that’s what? Basically we’re here to talk about what a non-profit khun do should be doing to get the types. Of people who are your clients? High net worth ultra high net worth individuals interested in the cause as as interested as you are in jd are okay and that that’s on all different levels that might be a boardmember donor-centric ter, maybe just like introduction, supporter and some other methods, you know, maybe a volunteer, but not a boardmember so we’re going to talk a fair amount about you’re bored, you know, sort of fine tuning your board and making that look appealing, but the conversation’s not limited there, and we may just be talking about very well. Azad said non dahna relationship all right, so you’ve got you got a bunch of tips. Um, let’s, let’s, get into the heads of these men. He says this is an elusive group for a lot of people. They read about them. It’s always arms length. You know, ninety nine percent of us don’t know these people personally, they never will never meet them. But i got to believe that in the end, they really just i want to be connected to a cause no different than the rest of us. Just people just with norvig gets more money, there are people okay. Okay. Let’s. Gratifying, right? Right. So they just want, you know, they want some connection, the personal relationships. All right? No, i fear that in this presidential cycle, people could come away with a negative opinion of the very wealthy, but i hope that most are not like that. I presume they’re not. I’d like to see the good in you. I think i think we have to think that money and ego could be separate, right would be separate, of course, andi, ultimately, the people that we’re talking about today, which i think i think we’re looking at, many, many, many, many, many people, right? Ultimately you don’t see someone who is ultra high net worth right? It’s not, they’re not wearing it on their face. There’s no color. There is no religion, right it’s associated with with the kind of hair that you have. So it’s a it’s a matter of being right, it’s it’s something that you become either because you inherit the wealth, you create the wealth. There might have been a situation which brought wealth to you and the majority of the clients that we work with. Many of them don’t want to be associated with money. They want to be associated with purpose. So when we think about what creates purpose inside of someone versus a person being a wealthy individual and therefore they have purpose, but what creates wealth in itself, i hope it’s not a purpose as not it i’ve heard lots of stories about very wealthy people who are quite unhappy and quite modest people who are quite a brilliant in their lives, exactly, exactly, definitely independent and independent of you go to now let’s reassure people that there could be a place for these, these these people, these folks in small and midsize non-profits and they don’t all necessarily want to be on the metropolitan opera board, stanford university, right? And not necessarily, i think i think it’s a fallacy to think that wealth associates itself with just large, robust organizations. There is an opportunity if you’re a significant wealth holder to be not just a difference in a small organization, but perhaps to be the difference in a small nonprofit organization. But again, it’s really related to what the organization is doing. There are small, independent colleges that do not have wealthy donors that don’t have wealthy. Alum and are seeking amazing volunteers support leadership. There are arts organizations that are not like the amazing one sitting here in new york city for small museums that are small art collections all over the country that require and need attention. So again, it goes back to you know, where does the person feel that incredible connected with the organization you’ve helped some of your clients start? Teo get engaged with small and midsize non-profits i think the best part about our work is that the best part about our work is helping them distinguish between an organization where they could have a long, amazing history with versus one which is, you know, nice to be on procedures, prestigious. They got great people sitting around the table, they all looked look like them. They all have bank accounts that are like theirs, but most of our clients like a balance, right, and that’s what’s also so interesting about the majority of the boards that i work with. There are a few wealthy people sitting among the board members. There are some who are just industry experts who associate with the organization. There are some who just have some incredible skills or time on dh? All of that is what makes the composition of aboard great so wealth is not wealth doesn’t necessarily mean that i’ll be a great boardmember a great volunteers, you’re right. In fact, it could be the other way around. It could be difficult for the organization. That’s okay, we take our first break um, you know, what can i say? This is going to be exciting, we’re going to talk about it is exciting, we’re going to talk about getting your organization in tune for for making these approaches and then also even these are just very good advice, even if you’re not approaching high net worth individuals, just this is good stuff for your board and for your organization generally, so stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Okay, melanie schnoll begun. Let’s get into ah, some strategies that we got for for looking good and just being solid. And, um, what is the word that we always use? Sustainable? Of course. Ok, so we, uh, we’d be well advised to show that we can help someone we might be trying to appeal to as a volunteer that will be willing to help them raise money. What kinds of help should we be offering to our volunteers? Right? So many ultra high net worth individuals created their own businesses, right? You would think that they know how to raise money and it’s incredible the difference between yeah, that’s different kind of raising it’s a different fund-raising right, a capital raise for business versus raising money for non-profit that you might be so passionate about. For some reason, the psychological obstacles that happen in someone’s head are incredible. And i’m a professional fundraiser, so to me, i can’t understand it. But you have to appreciate that people get really scared about asking friends, colleagues, business associates for money so non-cash profits staff really needs to feel comfortable. In health, being potential board members were volunteers overcome these obstacles, and there were definitely techniques to do it. I’m getting them into a mindset to realize that this is not asking money for themselves. Most people think when they go out, even though they know they’re raising money for an organization, a small organization, they care about the desperately needs the money, they feel that making that ask appears to be making and asked for them personally. It’s personal way we got to get rid of that, right? Like you got to take that idea. You gotta put it on a shelf way, way up on the top of your ceiling and decide you know what? I’m not going into that box because this isn’t about me. This is selfless. I’m spending my time, my energy might interest to create awareness and raise funding that’s either desperately needed or trust is needed to improve the work of the organization, so taking yourself out of that formula is really important. One of the ways that we do it is helping organisations help, they’re bored or volunteers were raising money, helping them create personal and public narratives, and a narrative is a story, right? We all have our own stories. I have a story about who i am now j r and your relationship with jamie our f etcetera, metropolitan college, all these organizations, all of these organizations, are all of those organisations, so finding that story inside of you that you’re really incredibly comfortable with this isn’t an elevator speech, this isn’t, you know, standing in the middle of, you know, a tight little elevator where the door is closed and the person can’t get out of the way. This is something where it’s so authentic genuine, but this is but this is making it sounds like magnum or personal. We’re trying to put personal up on the shelf now, but but personal because you’re comfortable telling the story about your association with the organization that this is not money for. So i don’t want anyone to think that when i’m raising money for tv, raph, i’m raising it so that melanie doesn’t have type one diabetes. I’d love to not have type one diabetes it’s a disgusting auto immune disease, but i’m not raising money for me, and there may never be a cure for type one diabetes in my lifetime, i’m raising money because i don’t want any other little girl to have type one diabetes because i don’t want another woman tohave to wear all of these devices underneath her dress, trying to figure out you know where i hook it on. Can i wear this tight, beautiful blouse? You know, i just i want people to feel comfortable recognizing that they can keep it. Anything is a type one diabetic. They could be a competitive athlete running the new york city marathon. They could run a big business, right? They could have babies. They would have to worry about living with complications that type one diabetes could bring on. So i take myself out of the formula. You’re not giving me the money you’re giving in an organization that’s working in excellence to do the research to find better treatments and cure. But i tell a story about myself, because, tony, i want you to see me in the center of the story, and then i want to drag you into that conversation because i want tony to see that my story about type one diabetes is your story also it’s your story. I help you. See the connection between me and you give you a quick example whenever i’m raising money for type one diabetes and i talk about me being in a car, my blood sugar being low first talk about the possibility of what could happen to me or my kids if they’re in the car with me. I then relate the story to a donor that that that i’m trying to raise money with from and i say to them, you know what? If you were in your car on the road when i was a possibility of negan into an accident, hurry myself is possible, the possibility of me being low and getting into an accident and hitting your car is also likely. Now i’m not saying that type one diabetics get into more accents anyone else? Probably less because we’re so much more aware of our health and our well, is that anybody else? I’m always checking before i get into a car, but that’s how i help other people who are raising money for diabetes make a story that’s personal, but connect themselves to somebody else and it’s, not about statistics. People are nervous about talking about, you know. The efficiencies of the nonprofit organization they’re nervous about talking about the impact of the organization. I could relate it to just a little story about me being in a car and talk about how j d ref is doing such amazing work on better technologies and how that’s helping me live a better life and helping you because i won’t be in a car on the road level. Yeah, outstanding, milly know very i feel it because i’m planning on soliciting cubine shaking you down for a couple of bucks for my city marathon on sunday, we’re already doing a service for j d r f there were going to take them on the promotions for the show, they’re goingto they’re getting there getting an hour of promotion. Okay, one one more idea of a simple way, tio help someone who’s who feels like they’re they’re not a comfortable, they don’t feel comfortable soliciting one more. One more thing, one more thing you’re gonna have three ideas in your head, like just three don’t noel the facts about the organization we get lost, we get lost. In fact, people get lost in numbers when you make a mistake about a number so you’re you’re making a claim that this little school is serving twenty five children living with autism and the results are fifty percent better lives, whatever it might be, we get lost in statistics, and the issue with numbers sometimes is people can prove us wrong with a number it’s harder to prove us wrong with just a story. So i suggest to all of three organizations i work with who are helping their volunteers, their donors raise money, give them three easy facts that we no can’t be disputed right can’t be disputed and that you could really understand again that you could create a story around one of the facts if if we’re talking about autism and let’s assume that we have a play centre for children xero through the age of five rights in a community important to that community, we know that that autism eyes is increasingly on the rise. We still don’t even know why this is happening to our young children, but this center is so important to this community. So three particular stories, right? So i would i would give them one story about one young girl, right? And how? It changed her life by being in a community where she began. Tto be able to associate, have friends right where he began toe learn skills, teo cope with some of her emotions. We’re too began to make eye contact, right? And then i give them another statistic and it’s a step about the way it changed the life of the parent. That the mother now feels confidence and leaving her daughter in this beautiful little community centre, that the mother now can have a part time job. Right? There’s so many ways to give statistics, they’re not versus forty eight percent of our families feel more confident. Yeah, with the with having a two family income just, you know, okay, exactly. Exactly. So those are the three fax are are incredibly important to fund raisers. And one of them should be a fact that that you can that the fundraiser, right? So as a non-profit is working with someone on the board that the fund raiser can associate with themselves, perhaps they have a child who’s living with autism so they could tell a story about, you know, my daughter, uh, when he was four years old was in this school, you know, and what it did for her and just giving specifics about actually how it can capture how it came to that family’s life, what it did for the siblings in that family, so three strong fax can never go wrong and lose the numbers if they if they don’t serve you, you just raise something that there has to be an affinity before we approach any individual way don’t want to go after high net worth people just because they are because they are wealthy, that there’s no, if there isn’t some genuine affinity for the work that you’re doing. There’s no point, right? May i mean, unless you’re a robber, right? Unless you’re looking to, you know, going to someone’s home and you don’t care now, why would you even think of that? I don’t know, i mean, i wouldn’t even think about it, you know what? I don’t know why? Because i think in fund-raising sometimes wait do feel like we’re robbing the person we do if we don’t if we don’t believe in the story of, you know, i’ve heard actually i’ve heard that from grant writers we were asked by sometimes its board members or their ceo go after this hit this foundation and there’s no connection, but they have to try to find one and they know it’s tenuous as their writing the words of their typing. They know it’s disingenuous, and they know it’s going to fail, but they’re executing something that they were asked to do by somebody who presumes themselves to know more about grantwriting than the professional. So and i’ve heard in that in that realm, it’s, that it feels very feel smart. Well, it feels empty, it feels empty and the results are horse, so you have to know that there’s some connection now you know, you’ve you maybe have seen another similar organization that the person supports you mentioned some of your clients are entertainers and are athletes, so maybe they tweet about a cause and they don’t know about your organization. See, according paper, you know, if it’s not somebody with seventeen million twitter followers but you see them quoted relating to a cause, something you’ve got to know that there’s a connection before you tryto given introduction, we call it a common denominator common denominator so my my son is in the sixth. Grade. We deal with all these fractions percentage of fractions, and every time i’m sitting down looking at his mathos work i’m thinking about fund-raising because i’m thinking, what is that common denominator and a common denominator means we have to have some tenuous connection, something that where there’s there’s a correlation between me and the person that i’m raising money from? So we do a lot of work, we help our non-profit clients to a lot of work on the person, the organization, the foundation before they go and make the ass. Okay, maybe we should touch on something. What do you do for your non-profit clients cause i mentioned it in your intro and that you mentioned well, let’s, acquaint people with that side of your practice. Great. Happy tio r work starts with advisory services, so we work with non-profit organizations, small and large helping them in three particular areas. The first is bored development in governance and going into a nonprofit organization looking at their board, seeing where there are strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. The typical swat analysis, right? And during a swat analysis with a board is amazing. We do it on the way. We do it backwards. I think most people start with their strength, like who doesn’t want to talk about how strong i am? We start with their threats. You call it a tuesday, we calling wools elearning you’re inter combining okay, that’s right metoo we turn it on its head so threats and weaknesses have to be first. You could always go to the opportunities and the strengths of a nonprofit organization. S o going in really analyzing the organization, there will be some tremendous talents thing on the board. Sometimes the board is tired. I mean, we have to realize that some boards where they don’t have bored tenure and this happens a lot, tony and small non-profits like the leadership on the boy that’s been around too long over and it’s because the bylaws say it’s two three year consecutive terms is the max and you look on the board in there, people have been there twelve, fifteen, seven, twenty years, nobody has the the courage or the energy to enforce what’s in writing at night, so you know, you don’t get fresh perspective. I mean it’s terrible it’s terrible, and part of the reason is because they live in a feat they live in fear, you know, starting fresh perspective, people come on the board and they see what is supposed to be six year max, maybe a possibility of a second of a third three year term, and their board members have been here for seventeen years, and i don’t even follow their own by-laws what kind of an organization? By joining that’s, right? So so not only does it have poor governance, right? Not only does have poor governance, but ultimately it’s a new fresh member of the board. When you look at someone who’s been on a board for so many years, you know it, they’re they’re they’re exhausted from raising money for the same organization that’s, that’s one it’s not that they’ve lost the passion for the work they care about the work they want to see the results, but ultimately every three to campaign cycles, a delete four five year campaigns at least, and everything in between those and the preparation of planning and that’s a couple strategic planning cycles with that if you was done right, takes at least a year or so and that, and that means that they’ve even seen strategic plans that have sat on shelves that haven’t even been on there embarrassed the board members embarrassed to leave don’t want to leave the organization flat, but the organization is embarrassed to get the person off he’s another by-laws say they should that’s right, it’s a bad situation. Let me tell you how we help. Let me tell you how we help. Let me tell you how we help, we go into that board and we sit down with, you know, the current officers and really talk about you, let’s, analyze your you’re bored policy, right? This is what your terms are if they’re right. If it was right when we wrote this this language, if we were right about this, then we have to govern this way. Onboarding exactly so we need to make decisions now, how do we get rid of a boardmember who cares about this organization, who we care about, um, letting them resign in honor, right, letting them resigning? I think a lot of times it just takes a face to face conversation at seoul. It takes some degree of courage. Just ask the person to come in and sit with the ceo. And se look, oh, it sit with the board chair, hopefully is not the board chair, but that could be the person, but whoever it is, you know, you gotta go. You gotta grow a pair and and start enforcing the governance that you’ve you’ve put in writing. That’s exactly right that’s exactly what it is that simple and the person is a very good chance that personal thank you. In fact, not only thank you, they want to go, they want they’re embarrassed to leave. They’re embarrassed to tell you that they don’t want to go and you’re embarrassed to ask them to leave. But but i’d never let but it’s an opportunity, right? We never let ah threat or weakness like having someone who’s tired, who’s been on a board too long not turn into an opportunity and into a strength we go back to our twos, and so what’s the opportunity as you are a cz ur graciously in honor it’s celebrating the service of a boardmember who’s. Now retiring, you ask for a gift, we ask for a gift and we do it upon exit. And we allow that retiring boardmember and honor we celebrate that. Boardmember allow his or horse story about leaving this organization all the work that he’s done and in celebration upon departure, leaving a major gift. And by the way, major, at their level right now, talking about small organizations, this person might not have a fourteen to give, given their capacity at their capacity. I never heard that one outstanding, and i’ve heard the transition respectfully, to an advisory board nice, but ask for a gift as forget. I mean, of course we’re going to do all of those other things. But why lose our opportune eddie? Allow someone to retire and give at their highest and best potential and celebrate and celebrate their service and their their their gift? Okay, would you hang out, take it, take sip waters, complicity from aroma while i do a little business, you just keep that. I give a lot to remember. It’s not it’s, not a paid, so we don’t have to disclose it. Um, so much more with melanie coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got another free webinar. If this one is upgrade your best donors today with pursuant consultants chris taft and christian priest they’re gonna help you identify your donors who have the capacity and interest to do more for you maximize your resources as you engage the right prospects and fine tuning your prospect visits. This webinar is on tuesday, november fifteenth, at twelve central time. If you want to register, go to pursuing dot com and under resource is click webinars yet another free webinar from pursuing we’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising these air, not your seventh grade spelling bee there’s live music, dancing, standup comedy fund-raising and of course, there is spelling woven in there as well. The’s air ideal for millennial outreach night you’ll love these things because you do them in bars restaurants, not your seventh grade spelling bee. Check out the video at we b e spelling dot com now tony steak, too. I’ve got more video interviews from the non-profit technology conference he’s a rond fund-raising i picked the brains of smart technology guests to help you raise more money. This is what we’ve got in this batch donorsearch vase to boost your revenue growing your sustainers revenue, smart email marketing and increasing donorsearch retention all for those group together my video with the links to each of these four video interviews is that tony martin durney dot com, and that is tony’s take two. Melanie, thank you for hanging in there. I love i just love that gift idea. I know i said it three times already, but i love that gift idea of the departure of a boardmember but, yeah, we can’t have the seventeen years service service members it’s it’s just it’s not right. It’s bad business. Well, you just mentioned millennials and as i think about boards again, some of the work that we do it, morgan stanley is developing these boards. There is not a board around today that’s not looking to bring young leadership onto the board, and some have young monisha advisory boards, even they have if they don’t, they should, and they don’t, they should, and millennials are feeling the pressure. Tony. They’re really feeling the pressure because they realize that these organizations are all looking at them right now, right? Like there is an eye on them to be safe metoo saviors i i go to conferences and there’s a panel of three millennials, and there has to speak for the whole thirty million court record three people supposed to represent the entire group, they’re representing their representing all of us both leadership from the past, and they’re going to be our future. So, you know, we need to be mindful of the pressure that we’re placing on them, but also but again, we need to recognize the opportunity. So as i think about boards and for, you know, the other nonprofit organizations, the organizations that that listened to your show that you serve bringing on young talent is incredibly important. But that common denominator right, you doesn’t necessarily mean that. Wow, that’s a person i want sitting on my board. So as i think about the colleagues on my team, even even craig was on my team was here in the studio with us today, when i think about, you know, how do we bring young talent onto non-profit boards? He gotta do the same personal assessment of them and that’s what i helped non-profits tio, we help them analyze the potential of a young boardmember so e-giving really almost like like a questionnaire and analysis. Who am i? What kind of boardmember could i be? What kind of time could i give? What kind of thoughts can i? Offer would i be intimidated? Sitting among ah board of people so much senior to me coming in and they’ve been there for sixteen years? Am i going to have a permanent gag order? Will i ever feel comfortable offering my opinion, having a voice at that table? So you need to really look at millennials who come on to your board if they’re going to join your big board and make sure that they have the potential to be an equal participating boardmember support the reassurance? Yeah, the coaching one of your ideas is that there be a board buddy system? I love talking about that. I love it! I love it it’s like anything else. When you learned how to swim, no one went into a pool on their own little diesel sensitive hands under me as i was kicking and flailing. I’m still i still i still need that i’m actually not very good even i live on the ocean i flail that the hands have grown but they’re a little different now of it’s the same i do love it well, maybe that’s because you should be using your feet more than your hands that’s a swimmer it’s really? The power comes from the feed from the from the from the legs, but you’re right, it’s that support underneath you until until you’re ready to swim on your own till you’re ready is from on the road. So it’s the same exact like to see a mentor assigned a banner different dahna mentor has a met buddy somebody now i heard friends or friends buddies wait friends of friends, pals, pals, buddies sleep together. Okay? That’s not that’s, not the kind of body. You know what? We’re going to keep this show really clean. Okay, so, so what’s going on? We’re not. We’re not talking about the word sleep that’s killing you, right? So blue. So it was the together part. It was together part, but in the bud washing room she’s really norvig it is mormon studio, but you’re blushing more now than you were ever best falik so the idea of a buddy system it’s not a mentor in it’s, not a sponsor. It’s it’s, not someone who’s going be there give you no guiding you your half and it’s not someone there who’s gonna sponsor you to take on a bigger role in the organization it’s someone who’s going to share with you what they went through when they were joining the board. So would he to know that? Like, when you walk, i’ll give you something. This amazing issue that people have when they first joining aboard, where do i sit? Oh, my god. I’m walking into this boardroom there’s ten board members to someone which we have assigned seats on by sitting in someone’s chair and that’s that’s their there right? How do i prepare for a board meeting? Should i come into notes all over the board book? They’ve dog tag in my book be all highlighted. Do i ask questions? Should i answer questions? I mean, all of these things that go on in someone’s head when they’re first joining aboard because remember, you’re joining a family aboard is a family. These are people who work together, live together, pray together, cry together, sometimes over the issues that they’re working on, and you’re the newcomer and your brand new and your brand new. So a body is someone who gives that kind of support. The first thing a buddy does is they find a seat for their buddy might. They walk in and they go, you know what? You’re going to sit right next to me, you’re going to sit right next to me that reassurance when you just walking for that first meeting, knowing that you got someone right next to you and who like whispers something in your ear, like, you know, by the way, don’t listen to that woman, you know, she doesn’t have a clue what the hell she’s talking about or oh, that guy talks about fund-raising but he hasn’t raised a dollar for this organisation in ten years, you know, that kind of insight on that thing kibitzing really help someone get comfortable and ease into their fiduciary responsibilities, sitting on the board outstanding because i wanted to talk about making explicit the responsibilities of the boardmember clearly the organization has responsibilities to the to the board with the boardmember has responsibilities to the organization, and they go way beyond fund-raising and we need to make these explicit on, i think, going back again to governance many organizations, even small organizations, right, even start up organizations recognized the need tohave policy, and they’ll perhaps even write policy they’ll feel, perhaps copy some other organizations policy and make it their own not knowing what to be in their policy, but at the end of the day, whatever their policy suggests that are the board members responsibilities should be in writing, why’s that so critically important because new board members, especially for small organizations, they need to understand. What am i supposed to be doing here? Like what is my role? The first critical role is to talk about raising money for some reason, we leave it for last we we nominate people to the board, we cultivate them. We’re so excited to bring them on. Sometimes we’re bringing them on because they actually gave a gift to the organization in the past, right? They were a donor to the organization, and then when we bring them onto the board all of a sudden, you know, we don’t talk about fund-raising i start, i lied with with fund-raising in fact, we have not policy usually usually there’s this give and get expectation on the board. I hate that word. I hate that word. Why what they mean by expectation? The reality is, if there is a need, then we should say there is board fund-raising policy and some boards will explicitly say how much the number is that they have to raise. They don’t necessarily have to say how they get the money. But, you know, every board needs to realize if there are ten, people sitting around this table and if there’s an expectation for us to each raise ten thousand dollars or five thousand or one thousand, you know, i don’t know how much some of the organizations who are listening might expect of their things are in the range so in the range, but let’s just say it’s ten let’s, say it’s ten because it’s easier for me to do that kind of mathos on dh there, sir. Ten people sitting around the table rights of ten thousand times ten. You could even do that math. Tony what’s. That number would be a hundred thousand. Well now, imagine formal difference. Wolber lorts right for michael. But both were former lawyers. Exactly. Imagine the difference in a non profit organization. If it every single year before it even had toe open its doors, it knew it had a commitment because the board understood that each of them had the responsibility and on dh. Not a goal, not an expectation, but the responsibility to get ten thousand dollars in that organization knew we have one hundred thousand dollars toward with that. Do you prefer to see those expectations as a dollar amount or something? You see the phrase personally significant gift each year? I like clarity. Ok? I mean, i’m all about being clear and concise. What i hope is that ten thousand is the floor, not the ceiling. Yeah. See, that’s the problem. If you if you say there’s a certain there is a responsibility to do that, that becomes the person ceiling. Exactly. I got ten thousand dollars. I’m done. So i’ve got ten thousand dollars in january and i could fall asleep for the next eleven months. Now, what do you do though if you have a diverse board in terms of assets and ability to give? Yes. And for some people with ten thousand dollars is a stretch. And for some people, it’s, you know, a remainder at the checking account at the end of the week. That’s, right. So so that’s. So now let’s, let’s. Go back to this ultra high net, worth enough people that we were talking. About the beginning of the hour right on policy in that regard doesn’t necessarily have to be the same for everybody, right? And when you’re recruiting a member to report when you’re recruiting someone and you know that they have the potential to give hyre than other board members, you’re i’m i’m very clear with that new board potential boardmember i will explain the composition, the board i want you understand who you’re gonna be sitting with, you’re going to be sitting with some people who are academics who don’t have the opportunity to give them selves significant, but man, they gave intellectual capital to this organization. We have some board members who can give, ah, small amount of money, but give their time and then and then you, tony, you know, you have a lot of time, you’re running a big business, you live in north carolina, you’re on the radio, you got a lot of people want your attention, right? Right, right. Sounds good. Sounds good with you was reality story. I’m creating a good narrative for drama you add to it is eyes intense it’s all about creating the factual was all factual but bring thrown creating the public narrative here creating the public narrative so around that story, i know you have the potential to give mohr, but you don’t have much time. You don’t live in new york, so you can’t always be here for board meetings. You can’t always be here for the volunteer events, so you know, you’re in north carolina, but you have the potential to give more. I would be very explicit with you, tony, i want you to understand something the required give for this board is ten thousand dollars, but one of the reasons that we want you on the sport is because we know you have some tremendous networks. We know that you’re very affluent, we know that you run a great business, we know that you don’t have a lot of time, so we want you to realize that we’re not going to ask is much time of us. We might be asking of other board members, but we do hope that you can give at a higher potential. And what do we embarrass about what it was like, seriously, what we embarrassed about asking, but we know it, right? We’re thinking it, but for some reason. Somewhere between our brain and our mouth, there’s there’s this disconnect, we can’t get those words out, and we know the person we’re talking to his thinking it because as i’m describing the diversity of the board, i know that the academics don’t have the capacity to give the hypothetical tony level that’s exactly right qualified with hypothetical that’s, right? So you’re allowing i know it, you know it let’s talk about the elephant in the room, it’s the elephant in the room, and instead we’re going to be professionals. We’re gonna be genuine, we’re going to be authentic and we’re going to be transparent, and if i’m going to allow you to serve in excellence, what i don’t want to happen is i don’t want tony in north carolina running a big business who says, wow, i feel totally guilty because there was, you know, a volunteer events today. We were going out and clean the park because we’re over the garden because we’re garden organs, unicorns i feel totally guilty. I wasn’t able to be there, and i wasn’t able to be there for the last three, you know, vegetable growing things and the flower cutting thing, but you know what i know i could dio i care about this organization. It was in my neighborhood when i was growing up. I want to be a big part of it. I could give more than other people can give, okay? Honesty, explicitness, professionalism. We’re adults here, all right, let’s, go out for our last break a little early, and then we’ll wrap it up. We’ll still have another, like, nine, ten minutes or so you hang in there. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office with fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Welcome back, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Melanie, i love these ideas. E-giving really excellent. Um, by the way, you didn’t mention beach either on the beach in north carolina? Yes, i got it going. Address mamatoto the hypothetical means well, at that additional layer of fact and the view outside of your window. And now now you’re able to sleep with that with the shutters open because it’s getting a little bit cooler for indoor sliding doors, we could definitely do a fundraiser at your beautiful beach house in north carolina. Thank you so much for offering europe. Thank you for offering. I appreciate that. We’ll take that. We’ll take that done. Done. Let’s, not get aggressive. We’ll not only martignetti non-profit here not only taking we’re going where you already admonished me. Aboutthe sex joke that’s, right? We’re not gonna take it, but but at a gala we’re gonna raffle your home ofthe to somebody with a beautiful beach. Um, let’s show that our organization measures its own results, shows its impact assesses it’s assess its its effectiveness to the new potential investor etcetera that we might be trying to entice yes, so effectiveness. And measurement, right? So many conversations about this, i’m sure that you’ve had conversations like this on your range a lot we have, but it bears repeating buy-in impact reporting and measurements. Ok, so so we might have a slightly different opinion than many of the companies that are in the measurements reporting business. Go ahead and i’m gonna give you the opinion from the ultra high net worth jonah, right? So that’s, where we spend much of my time, our staff spends much of our time at morgan stanley. I’m you would think that the wealthy or someone is the more be the big bank accounts that they have the brokerage statements that they get. They always want all these reports. The reality is they don’t read them, they don’t read them, and i’m not saying everyone that no one reads them right. So their trust advisors, i might be reading them on behalf of the donor, but the ultra high net worth donor-centric ng all of your energy on it goes on red. So most of ultra high net worth donors want to know that you’re being effective, right? They want to know that if they have a connection to this organization. You’re not doing anything fraudulent, right? Just not doing anything. Fraud, that’s, that’s a that’s a floor that is the floor, right? That’s the floor. They want to know that their money is going to be making a difference, right? That there’s something that their gift is going to be accomplishing of the organization, that if you did not have their gift, you couldn’t do it right, like there’s. Just something else that was that might not have been able to have been happening. But the most important, the most important again is the relationship that they have with the person who’s making me ask or the relation that they have with someone on the board. So they look at these relationships and time and time again, they go back to, even if we might be doing a deep analysis on the impact of the organization and ah, qualitative and quantitative analysis of their work. If an ultra high net worth client has a relationship to the organization, if they have relations in person who’s asking him for the money or they have relation with a boardmember or they’ve had a relationship with the cause, the cause is done something for them personally for their family, all of the statistics there, not as relevant. And i’ll tell you why because we think about how doe i compared to another organization doing similar work. So if i went to will go back to the example of autism, if there was ah, community center in my neighborhood that was working with a small group of children ages zero to five and on and i had a friend whose daughter went to that school and i saw the impact it made on my friend’s life doesn’t matter if there’s another bigger organization working on autism, finding the research, doing the working towards the cure? No, because it’s so it’s, so easy for me t sting you wish between why this organization first another not because i don’t want to know that there’s going to be a cure, but i have that connection to this organization where my friend’s daughter excels, so it goes back to what we’ve been speaking about. Beginning results matter metrics absolutely matter when you’re looking for very large gifts, he need to make sure that you could back, huh? What you’ve accomplished with someone’s donation. But the end of the day working on that relationship nine times out of ten is what an ultra high net worth persons looking for just like a high net worth person or a low networth person. They’re looking for the relationship, the connection. We want to reassure our volunteers that their time is going to be used wisely, efficiently that we we support our volunteers, are meetings or efficient let’s talk a little about a little about overcoming some of the objections that people might have to volunteer like like thie perception is that all the volunteers are retired and they have lots of time um, the job’s right there, or or there where their home with their kids so so during the breaks with their kids, like they’re trying to find meaning in their lives and those of the people you should be asking for a volunteer, not me so much right away over how do we isn’t non-profit overcome that objection. So so i don’t want to assume that that mom’s at home who have tremendous potential to volunteer, really, who have no time because it’s the busiest, it’s it’s the hardest job on the face of the universe to be at home with your children that’s why i never stayed home with my children. Ah, much easier for me to go into morgan stanley, but ultimately, volunteers is going be an issue if your children listening to this is going to cause any but it could be something the family you know what? That when it was so so ryder and talk, i just want you to know later in life when when you’re lying on the couch just say it was because my mom just it was because of my mom don’t spend all the money saving himself gave all the money out of time and money save all the money and going back to the volunteers we confined volunteers anywhere, right? And the problem that that i see non-profits have is they don’t have an established volunteer program, right? They don’t know how to maximize the effort and the energy of their volunteermatch base. So if we are going after established individuals who have very, very busy lives and you want them to volunteer for a particular purpose, then outline what is the project, the program, the day, the hour than you want them. To spend maybe it’s doing a radio show like this, right? Like maybe it’s coming into your studio and spending one hour with you talking about the work of their organization man is that away toe volunteer and to volunteer in excellence, but many organizations who have who bring in a lot of volunteers, they become their staff to some extent, they’re not spend the time giving their volunteers thie the preparation to be really good volunteers, so even small organizations that are run by predominately of volunteer base volunteers could get lost. They don’t understand, you know, how am i going to be useful to this organization? So if they go into a small school or if they go into a library, let’s make it into a library, so i’m going to volunteer for a library in my neighborhood and, you know, i’m not a librarian, right? And i don’t know how to use the dewey decimal system anymore, right? To even use the library library. I don’t rememberthat night except duitz one through nine, right? That’s because we’re old on the card, the card catalogue. I’d love to go to court catalogue sametz just glide out so nice. There, all wood with the satiny brass fixture on if you pull the handle out, a lot of little tag inside the little it’s little frame. And if someone was eating like an oreo cookie, there was like that love thumbprint, right? Greystone think dahna car in the little time we well, i i don’t know what they use that anymore in our libraries. So when you’re going into a library, you know what? How you could be volunteering in a library and making sure that the volunteers that come in there, that there’s real potential for them tio feel to feel effective. The one opportunity teo do that is tripoint someone who is going to be the leader of their volunteers, right? Who is responsible for this incredible, incredible group of people who are going to be our staff for free, right? So someone needs to be assigned to be responsible for those volunteers they could check in with them. They give them their work orders. They evaluate them. They let them know what they’re being good. Volunteers, bad volunteers. How they could improve their volunteerism. So there’s accountability and and and support absolute. Okay, we have just like a minute and a half left and i want to how do how does that non-profit get the attention of the kinds of people were talking about? And we just have, like, a minute or so let let them realize that if they’re working in the space of on dh educating kids, health care, the feeding, the poor, those are issues that ultra high net worth individuals care about, right? We have to stop thinking that small non-profits need to be in the shadow of the large, established organizations ultrahigh networks care about the issues. How do we get their attention for our small roger’s warnings and make sure that we have stories there are powerful, so if you’re going to use social media, if you’re going to use volunteers to get the message out and advocate, if you’re going to use a letter writing campaign, be concise, be clear creating a public narrative that lets them understand why they are different than other bigger organizations, and make sure that you’re getting that message out to people not just mass but, you know, make it very pointed, so clarity, concise transparency and advocate for your organization because small organization’s matter. As much as the large ones, the ninety five percent matter. What is your twitter id? Melanie espy got melanie s begun. Mm. For morgan stanley at melanie s begun. Bj u n m s thank you very much, craig. Melanie, thank you so much. Great to have you back. Good luck this weekend. Thank you. And i appreciate your not coming on my hair. By the way, i’m dying. I have a second. So i have to just tell our listeners when i first met tony when we first became friends short cropped hair. Now it’s beach fundez mario. Probably like a lion like a lion next week. Eight areas of non-profit excellence. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers ideal for millennia. Ls we b e spelling dot com our creative producers clam hyre off. Sam liebowitz is the line producer gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.