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Nonprofit Radio for August 10, 2018: Your Media Relations Strategy

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Peter Panepento & Antionette Kerr: Your Media Relations Strategy
Co-authors Peter Panepento and Antionette Kerr want you to have a plan for earned, paid and owned media that’s G.R.E.A.T.: Goal oriented; responsive; empowered; appealing; and targeted. Their new book is “Modern Media Relations for Nonprofits.”

 

 

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d endure the pain of tacky fajita if you made me swallow the idea that you’re missed today’s show your media relations strategy co authors peter panepento and antionette car. I want you to have a plan for earned paid and owned media that’s great goal oriented, responsive, empowered, appealing and targeted they’re new book is modern media relations for non-profits i told you, take two millennials versus boomers we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant wagner see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. What a pleasure to welcome peter panepento to the studio and his co author, internet kurt to the show by phone. Peter welcome, welcome back. I’m excited to be back on tony martignetti non-profit radio back to the show. First time in the studio, though first time in the studio, we’ve done it by phone. We’ve done it on site at conferences, but never in the studio. So it’s pretty cool to see you in your native habitat. Thank you very much. Peter’s cofounder and philanthropic practice leader of turn to communications, a pr in communications firm working with non-profits and foundations, he has deep experience in the media and non-profits he was a journalist for more than twenty years, most recently as a managing editor at the chronicle of philanthropy that’s where i first met him even before he was managing editor. He’s at turn hyphen, too dot ceo and at peter panepento internet car welcome to the show. Thank you for having my pleasure. Internet is the founding ceo of bold and bright media, a multimedia publishing company helping non-profit writers tell their stories. She also works as a non-profit leader and a journalist. She contributes a weekly column for the lexington dispatch in north carolina, that’s where she started in journalism, she’s been a ted ex presenter and is a contributor to non-profit marketing guide that’s, a friend of the show give you the room, miller she’s been on a few times. Internet is at bold and bright media dot com and at the right folks w r i t again. Welcome, antionette. Look. Thank you. Welcome from north carolina. Now i have two homes in north carolina, in pinehurst and emerald isle. Where is lexington? I think it is somewhat north of finders. But finders is beautiful and it’s a lovely place. Not like to go and visit. Great place to go. Yes, it is. I’m not. Yeah. I’m not a golfer. A lot of friends say that’s a waste of a house in pine er’s. Because it’s actually on a golf course. But i just watched them thankfully. It’s. A nice, quiet sport and i don’t know too much about sports. But it’s a nice quiet one. It goes by in the backyard. I don’t hear them. No golf balls in the kitchen, windows xp. Fine. Where so we should get together sometime. We definitely should have written for a pine straw, which is a beautiful publication there in-kind okay, so, yeah, you get a chance to pick that up? I haven’t written for them in a while, but it’s really great magazine. Excellent. Pine straw, i’ll look for it together. Peter and antionette have this book new book called modern media relations for non-profits creating and active pr strategy for today’s world antionette let’s stick with you. Why? Why do we need a media strategy? Well, we need a media strategy because i haven’t been on the other side of covering non-profit and then on the executive director side, i was actually exactly director of where q different non-profits i realized that there was a missing element of communication, and a lot of that has to do with not having a media strategy. Most non-profits don’t have a sign media relations coordinator, we we wish we all had the money to do that thing strategy is really a cost effective way to implement some tools. Second make you a media darling that can help you get promoted in larger publications or on television and radio, so that our goal in writing this book was just to help people with, you know, some constant, active and quick ways that they can improve their media relations strategy. Peter, you were at clark chronicle of philanthropy when i first met you. I think you were web. Editor. That guy was probably right. Yeah, i was on your podcast that’s right before i had this show. I’m pretty sure this is very meta. Yeah, we’ve come. Yes. The student has become the teacher. You have to obey me now. We were in the chronicle philanthropy studio. Um and yeah, i think you were web editor. Alright. So through web editor, you became assistant. Was this a managing editor? And they’re managing editor or one of the managing editor’s eye was a system managing editor. Yeah, go right. The point is through that time you had you received thousands of from press releases to enquiries to phone calls, maybe tenth out who knows from non-profits trying to get attention, right? What are i mean, we have an hour together, so we can’t say it all here. Okay? What? What do you what? One or two things you wish non-profits could do? Would do better around their media? Yes. So, it’s interesting. I’ve been on both sides of this equation now, and i know how hard it is to pitch stories that yes, but but, you know, like antionette i had twenty years of experience in journalism, so i got a lot of pitches over the years, and as you noted, the time i had at the chronicle, i got a lot of pitches from non-profits and i think i think the biggest, biggest turnoff for journalists and the biggest thing i wish i could do when i would get a bad ah pitch from a from on organization is give some really basic advice to actually get to know the publication and the person that you’re pitching. This is that of getting blanket pitches that you send everybody, you know, get to know who you’re actually pitching and and know what they cover and and know a little bit about what the reporter editor cares about and taylor your pitch to that to that reporter, knowing what she or he might be interested in covering and the angle that they would want to cover. Okay, duitz you get so many, you get so many pitches that really the ones that stand out are the ones that that kind of, you know, they show some research, they show some research, they know what they cover like at the chronicle, we’re not going to come and cover your charity gala. Every every charity in the country covers a charity gala, but i would get, you know, all these news releases from organizations pitching their gala. I’m not going to cover that, but if you tell me something unique about what that gala might teach other non-profits or can identify a speaker, that might be of interest to a broader non-profit audience that might get my attention. So do that little extra bit of research find out what’s unique about what you’re doing and how that that unique thing that you’re doing actually intersects with the interests of that reporter you’re reaching out, okay? We’ll talk more about your advice for press releases specifically, but okay, excellent. So cem basic do some basic research now. I was disappointed to read in the book that newsrooms are no longer like i saw in the movie spotlight. It doesn’t mean it’s not like that anymore. It’s not it’s, not and what’s really interesting about spotlight, too is that that was pretty reese, right? I mean, that was an investigative team at the globe about ten years ago that was doing some major investigative work, some of that’s happening now, but in a lot. Of cases newsrooms have been really cut to the bone, they’ve been commoditized, the business has really changed and and as a result, there aren’t thes robust reporting staffs in these big news holes that you’re going after it’s become a lot more competitive, especially for non-profits who may actually be reaching out to publications that don’t have anybody who actually covers non-profits as a beating the non-profit beat right? All right, we’re going, we’re going toe take our first break, and it is for pursuant your newspaper is pursuing e-giving outlook, they took the latest fund-raising reports and boiled them down to the takeaways you need in a concise content paper. Watch the archive of their related web in or do both it’s, an ensemble piece of paper with matching webinar through the coordination both are on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital p for please now back to your media relations strategy. So peter what’s the implication of this degradation of the newsroom loss of the newsroom, no longer a non-profit beat reporter for non-profits trying to get the attention of media there, some negatives and positives related to that, i would say the big negative is that it’s a lot harder to identify the people you need to build relationships within news organizations and it’s a lot also a lot harder to get your story place, because there’s there, our reporter now might be hearing, you know from from even more folks who are competing for the limited space and what we’re talking about a newspaper here in this case in the newspaper. But it actually goes across local television and other things, too. There’s just the news hole ott of a lot of news organizations now have less space, or they are part of a conglomerate and there’s some, you know, national coverage in your local newscasts that has that’s eating up time now to that’s kind of mandate and there’s no one devoted to the non-profit beat, right? So the surgeon or the people you’re pitching r r have multiple assignments? Absolutely. Nobody is devoted to your your category of existence that’s, right? And people are turning over quickly too, so i’m so the net result of all of that is is you’re competing with a lot more people for a lot less attention. The upside of that, though, is if you are really good about building relationships with a few key reporters out there, and they start to trust you their time is so short instead of you having to pitch to them, they’re going to come to you probably a lot more regularly when they need an expert on a specific topic. So if you’re able to break through and get the attention of that reporter and and they trust you, um, that becomes really valuable to you and that’s really a key basis of the book to its howto build those relationships and howto break through and get to the point where it’s not just you sending news releases out to reporters and hoping they cover it, but but that they’re actually coming to you when they need an expert on your cause or on what’s happening in the nonprofit sector in your community or, you know, whatever you’re really looking, push, we need our media relations strategy to be much deeper than spread what you caught spray and praise brain provoc press releases, you know, to one hundred outlets, none tailored and just and just hopeful weigh a lot deeper that we’ll get to it, we’ll get to it shortly antionette by the way, i love the name antionette that was my grandmother’s name on my father’s side. Antionette antionette do you do you go by and short or do admonish people know it’s antionette now, it’s just that it’s hard to fail, but when it was hard enough to learn that name, so i think i’ll just go by that name because i noticed you have a n t i o n e t t and i think the more common spelling is oh, i end absolutely catches everything i never yet it’s right on my show sheet. I’ll prove it, peter, i’ll show him i have it spelled right every time because you’re smelling it like a grandmother, but i know i noticed i noticed you spell it differently. I thought maybe you were saying antionette but no, not internet. It’s okay, antionette martignetti was grandma martignetti you spend all the time in the book talking about ethics? Why internet? Why? Why? If we’re approaching media, why do we know about? Why do we need to know what’s the some ethics guidelines basics for journalists? Well, this is an important time in an important environment you’ve been a journalist. So one thing one of my pet peeves is whatever i work on a story non-profits asked me if they can read it, which would cause me to lose my job. I really leave a lot of people don’t understand that, you know, it could be really offensive that crosses the line between advertising and paid yeah versus a really urgent media story. So you know, where you go to a television producer, for example, and working studio you might be ableto see it after it edited and sent you, but you don’t really get to have input in that process, so we wanted people to understand that, and to really it’ll help with your relationship. So we begin our book with some jargon in terms that we use like moon, where the peter just talked about you tell me why someone would want to come to your gala will for a journalist, you say here’s, why they knew where they are, ears perked up so that’s that will really help people in establishing relationships to understand the ethics and the jargon and behind the scenes scenario with newsroom another point, you make his offering someone journalist free admission to a gala. Or maybe, you know, can i buy you a lunch? You should. We should know that. There’s. A good chance. You know you’re polite offers will politely be turned down. Right, and most organizations have a have a policy about that on the other side of the news room, so don’t take offense if they say no, i can’t accept your ticket. I mean, it’s it’s for, you know, a ten dollar event that might be that might not be an issue, but if it’s for one hundred fifty dollars gala, you know that that might be an issue for journalists, except that it could be considered, and julie influencing their objective news stories on din the new york metro area, it could be a fifteen hundred dollar ticket right way. Okay, we’ll get there in north carolina. It’s coming, it’s going, well, i’m not i’m not saying that’s a good thing anyway, i’m just saying that that’s that’s the state of the state of some some dollars in the northeast or certainly in the new york metro area, i’m not saying that that’s something to aspire to by any means, right? So you antionette you touched on earned and paid versus owns you in the book the two of you call this the trifecta could you distinguish between earned payden and owned media for us? Absolutely. And the trifecta isn’t a unique term for our conversation when that is used quite often in the journalism world, but what i noticed is that non-profits we’re really focused on earth media, but sometimes their strategies weren’t connecting their own video, which earned media traditional journalism. So it is what a reporter on whether it’s radio on the radio are print, which cover and its objective information paid media is advertising, and then all of the media which people forget that they actually own their own media sources right now between social media and website, they they do have control over that i’m seeing people, for example, a community college that had a huge cam picking that they paid for with an advertising firm to say we want a traditional student but well written their website, it didn’t really correlate with the messaging that they have paid so much money through advertising and paid people to get stories and earned the other press releases, and then they didn’t coordinate that with their own owned media that we really talk about dating you cover that case in the book that they were paying to get nontraditional students, but then there’s social media and the website was highlighting volleyball and some other sport. You know, it was highlighting the sports, and so people are looking for coordination in message, and they weren’t finding it right. They were born. They were showing back about players, and they wanted older students, people to consider themselves a student. If they’re older, they had a violent past about being featured on the website. Let’s, see so let’s stick with you internet talk a little about the earned media. Peter gave some tips about press releases. What i like way like here, actionable, no actionable strategies tips. You know what? What, what, what some other advice around making press releases more likely to be acted on and not not trashed. We have a section where we talk about appealing for may have been working with pressure lisa’s much first job as an intern at a newspaper with a full presently about the fax machine and deliver it to the right. This doesn’t seeing press releases the good, the bad and before quite some time and for non-profits a particular thing after you that they’re not really appealing a lot of times that we’re having the same event. You know, we talked about the gala where a golf tournament, we just kind of recycle the same press release every year and again, that’s not showing what worthy and a lot of times when you read the press release, i tell people, if you get bored reading your own press release that, don’t they? So just to make him appealing is good and then as some really powerful quote. So once the happiest people has this really stuffy quote from the executive director, that doesn’t end quality to the conversation. So that quote from from your weather report chairs or eighty your communications director to me, something exciting, not great language, but nothing exciting. You even recommend you recommend spending ten minutes interviewing the person, even if you’re the internal. You know, if you’re the internal communications person, you recommend spending ten minutes interviewing the person you’re going to quote, you can get some of their active language and bring some of that passion out that theyve got for the subject. Absolutely, absolutely that’s part of making your strategy appealing. So, you know, just just kind of sprucing up the language and and again removing the jargon from your non-profit and your great language. I feel like people, especially if they receive a grant that cutting case, you know, part of their executive summary into the press release and the journal is not you. I love making this news worthy. So, peter, our press release is still valuable men. Should we even bother be doing them, though? Yeah, i mean there’s value to him. But i think they shouldn’t be the default any more. I think a lot of organizations think there think that by sending news releases out, whenever they have something to announce that’s their media relations, they’ve got made a strategy right right on that it should be part of the picture, but it shouldn’t be the whole picture, and they are valuable in a couple of ways. One is they actually can provide valuable information to a reporter when they’re reporting on a story they’re very helpful toe have posted on your website a zoo in an archive for when people are looking for information specifically when reporters are looking for information on a lot of times, if you have those news releases posted on your website, they may connect through a story they’re writing on. It may not happen the day you signed the release out, but three months from now, if you release an important report on something and reporters covering that issue let’s say you put a report out about hunger in your community and it gets to be around the holidays and reporters doing story about hunger and hunger charities around the holidays that release might actually get their attention when they’re looking for information so there’s value there. But when i think you’re sending them out, i i feel like you get a lot more attention and you do a lot better job of building relationships if instead of just sending a news release to everybody on your media list, you you identify a few people and actually send a personal note to that reporter talking about what’s coming up, you know, giving them a heads up about what’s there, talking about some things that might be of interest in that announcement to that reporter and then making yourself available is a resource for for follow-up either right then or whenever the reporter needs that, i think if you actually spent more time doing that and less time just cranking out press releases you, you get more of your news covered and you built some better relationships and that the personal note idea. You have a little section in your book where you say you’re recommending something, you say way, have we switched years to make this a fund-raising book? No, you’re talking about relationships with reporters? Yeah, yeah, and no. So, i mean, i know it’s. Just that relationships are important and the personal note goes above and beyond how many personal. You know how many personal handwritten notes would you get in a month? You know what? The chronicle of philanthropy? Very few. But you know what? Average it’s a stand. And it stands up, you know? So he’s going to get rid. Exactly, write something stupid in your hand written note. You know, it’s still gonna end up in the garbage, right? So don’t try anything stupid, but, you know, you can stand out absolute waste. And that z very, uh it’s perfectly consistent with what we say about dahna relationships, absolutely for fundraisers sends the personal thank you note from a boardmember or something? Yeah, the personal notes, the thank you’s are really crucial. Azan example on dh this has happened fairly recently. One of the clients i work with, you know, is looking to build relationships with reporters who cover philanthropy in wealth. And i’ve reached out to a really prominent ray boerner, who covers wealth and have built a relationship with him without ever actually pitching a story to him. Yeah. So, you know, i sent along a couple of of story ideas to him and explain to him who i was and who i worked with and how i could be helpful to him. And we had a bit of a back and forth, and it got to a point where he actually reached in some of the email back and forth, he finally reached out to me and said, hey, i’m working on the story. Do you have any people who can who can be quoted and and i got back to him with three people home run, yeah, he’s asking you, he’s asking me, and then on top of that following that and, you know, actually delivering on it and him getting the sources he wanted. I got our email back afterwards where you actually i thank him for the story and he replied back and he said, you are now in the pantheon of pr people whose emails all open every time. So if grand slam, if you can deliver on that, you can you can move yourself into that pantheon and and that’s way more valuable than that would’ve been way more that one relationship is way more valuable than me putting a release out on pr newswire and hoping it gets picked up a thousand times more. See all these ideas in the book you got to get the damn book that’s just the point where we can’t cover everything in an hour. It’s modern media relations for non-profits just buy-in panepento incur. Just get the done thing let’s see? Okay, little moron earned media. That was some good in the media for us, right? They’re actually very good. It wasn’t e-giving, but nobody. You’re welcome, but nobody listens to this show way. Have over thirteen thousand. Um, let’s. Stick with you, peter. Peter p on on beds writing your you can write up ed. You’re writing on spec though you might spend a lot of time. It may not get printed, but it could be valuable if it if it does absolutely, you can be purposes. That’s, right? Ok. Writes a little opera. Okay. So op eds. If you’re not familiar with what i’m not, that is if their opinion pieces that are written by outside writers. Thank you. You’re a newspaper keeping me out of george in jail. Well, my own show. I have jack in jail and i think it’s interesting s o, i’m about to put out an e book on top says, and we’ve had a really hard time titling it because way can’t assume that anybody knows what an op that is so it’s kind of an internal struggle i’m having right now too, but ah ah lot of people think that op eds are kind of ah dinosaur thing of the past that they don’t really exist anymore, but guess what? Newspapers are still running them, and in fact they’re probably running more of them now because they have smaller staff, so they’re actually looking for more writers to contribute to their pages. So if you’re actually looking to advance an idea or, you know, advance an issue trying to, you know, build awareness about, you know, health care and you’re in your community or some kind of gap there, this is an opportunity for you to build a, well, a statue, you know, well crafted argument written by a thought leader in your organization, your ceo, your executive director, you know, the head of whatever initiative you’re working on and and use that space is a is a a place to kind of articulate your argument about why that issues important and what’s being done about it, or what people can do about it and a cz you noted the great value of that, you know, there is competition for these so you you’re writing these on spec your you may send it into ah paper, and they may not pick it up. The op ed page is limited space, right? Exactly if it does get picked up. Wonderful, right? You’ve gotten you’ve gotten in there if it doesn’t get picked up now you have a piece of writing that you can use for other things, you can use it on. You’re on your own media, you can use it on your website. You could put it in an appeal to donors. You can put it in your annual report. You khun it’s, it’s, not wasted effort. You can you can do something else with it. And the great thing about the era of internet journalism now, too is if the if the peace does get picked up before you know, twenty years ago you pick up the newspaper, you’d read the op ed that day and you throw it away. Now it lives forever online and when people are searching on that topic, your op ed might show up six months later and you might win a new supporter. You might, you know, no, get somebody who wants to learn more about your organization and joined your email list, you can get lasting value from these now internet there’s. Also some services is that you can use teo to find out what generalists are working on currently, as they’re trying to source. Haro is one help a reporter out profnet say little about those would you please sure the one of the big things that we really try to emphasize that help people find you. So a lot of times reporters are working in a silo like peter mentioned before, they have us to worry they have a story idea whether they’ve pitched it to the editor of the editor, came that i really love you to write a christmas story about non-profits in the area, i get that i get that a lot, and so here they are. You know, out here looking for sources. Finding people on facebook is a really great way, but there are services like said president, helpful reporter out sourced bottle on pitch rate that you can, you can say, you know, here here we are, here’s our mission and we can provide stories on this particular topic so you can go forward and really and thinking about your strategy think about what stories you want to share. I worked with a community that serves families who are facing homelessness, and they wanted people to know what that looks like, and they wanted to challenge this stereotype. So when they had an opportunity to connect with reporters over the holiday, they really share different stories about who was living in their community and why, and that was great for them because it was a really empowered story versus just having an expectation that you’re only is gonna work out the way you wanted to. We have just about a minute before a break internet so we’re gonna spend a lot of time after this break talking about great goal oriented, responsive, empowered, appealing and targeted for your media strategy started start us off with goals, and we’ll have plenty of time. The finish up talk more after the break, we’re gonna start with what your advice around setting goals for your strategy? Well, i wouldn’t say start with your with your team, so you know what if whatever role you’re in and you’re reading this book, i mean, we wrote it so that it could be helpful before members of your communications staff eighties, but really start with city now with her team and talking about what is your goal for your media relations strategy? That’s a measurable outcomes like you would for a grand opportunity and think what what comes out of that conversation? It’s really simple, but not something that people take the time to do in their non-profit daily work, you have some sample? Ah, couple of sample goals you can share. Yes, one of the big goals we talked about that before, with the with the community college i worked with was, do they really sell student enrollment going down? And they thought, has only increased enrollment, so their media relations strategy goal was to show that, you know, other that, you know, you just have to be a high school student high school graduate coming directly to the community college. They wanted to emphasize that college was open and welcoming to also they said, oppcoll around that i’ve also you know, i’ve had a personal goal of my last organisation, i work for housing non-profit that kept getting mistaking for the housing authority that our goal was just for people to know our name was a big old fred. All right, we’ll take, uh, take a break. Weather cps it’s personal now heat coach doom he’s a partner. You heard him on the four hundredth show just two weeks ago. Check out the firm, then talk to him. Very good guy. He’s no pressure, have you? I don’t know if you have you ever even heard of a high pressure sepa? I’m not sure that exists, but dahna you will listen to what your needs are and then he’ll tell you whether they can help you. They are wagner, cps dot com to start and then talk to him now. Time for tony steak, too. While there is a lot of talk about millennials, including on this show covered in many times millennials, donors, i’m pursuing baby boomers. I’ve got a different perspective. If you’ve got donorsearch or sixty and over, you need to promote plan gift to them that’s gift in their estate and retirement plans? I’ve heard it so many times loyal donor-centric boardmember they’ve been giving for fifteen, twenty years, maybe more, they die and there’s nothing in their state plan for the organization, everybody expected it, you know, people are saying we just assumed it would be there, but it’s not there they were never asked. I hear about it because it’s often the reason that people initiate contact with mito to start a plan giving program because they’re so disappointed about this, this gift that you expected and wasn’t there and they don’t want to repeat that they’re competitors are asking, your competitors are asking the other non-profits it might be a small community and, you know, they’ve found out that there was a gift to another organization in their will in the community that hurts a lot, but they were left out on against that they didn’t ask. So it’s it’s really not? You know, millennials versus baby boomers uh, you don’t you might very well need to be promoting to both, depending on what your causes and who you don’t what your donor looks like, but, well, the headlines and webinars you know often are going to millennial. E-giving i’m paying attention to baby boomers sabat there’s a north an enormous amount of wealth in that generation, and they are generous with it, and that creates potential. My video says a lot more, and that is at twenty martignetti dot com let’s go back to peter panepento and antionette car who are with me talking about their new book, modern media relations for non-profits, um, answer that we were talking about goals, the g and great, um, you need to identify who you want to be pitching once, you know what you want to do you to identify, you know, who you’re what, your audiences, right, who the right journalists are absolutely, and i need to pitch with purpose. So instead of spray and phrase talk about know, how do you how do you actually pitch with purpose? And a lot of that piers talked about with your delivery of, you know, sitting a press release but also sending a personal note or pitching or approaching them even when you aren’t necessarily pitching your no, i’m agreeing with you and cut you off there no, no, absolutely absolutely that’s that’s part of our goal oriented basically it’s what’s. Your game plan? What we’re asking people, you know, what do you each year you should sit down with your non-profit and say, what’s our game plan with our media relations strategy? You some people call it a campaign, you want to look at it that way, but that is important, and it can it can enhance what you already have going on. Maybe you’re having a big no anniversary fundraiser that really wants some great media attention around that. This could really help you with promoting your fund-raising strategy well and go hand in hand. You need to think of it as something long term to write a relationship building like you were saying, peter, absolutely, and in setting the goals, they’re really not goals there. Not so much goals for your media placements, but as much as their goals for your organizations and you’re connecting your media strategy to your organizational mole. So it has the huh? The maximum value free organization if you’re only able to invest, you know, twenty hours a month of media relations let’s, make sure we’re investing those twenty hours a month on something that’s actually going to move the needle for the organization not just necessarily get you media hits for the sake of media and in the in the immediate term, right? Like, you know, if you if you’ve got your, uh, let’s say you got a milestone anniversary. So you got a fifty if their hundredth anniversary coming up, you know, the time to think about your media strategy is not two weeks before the big gala celebrating the anniversary, right? Yeah. It’s, like, eighteen months before of the anniversary. Osili abila start building those relationships like you’re talking about exactly what you want to build the relation in ships, and then you actually want to think about all right, we have we have one hundredth anniversary coming up. What do we want to? Not only not only do we want to celebrate that, but what do we want that to say? What message do we want to come out of that? Who do we want to reach with that message and having some clear goals around that that actually kind of advanced the work of your organization, you know, really gets you off much bigger lift from the effort and the investment that you are putting in the media. In the in the end. And it requires more thinking and and work up front. But it’s going to lead to much better results. And i think. What? What always gets me and and i understand why it happens is is a cz you noted like you don’t you don’t just make it an afterthought two weeks before the event. Oh, no, we’ve got to invite the media to this that’s. What leads to those cookie cutter press releases? They don’t get into any impact, but if you are actually building the relationships, you’re thinking about what the key messages are your thinking about how they connect to the reporters you want you want, you actually want to connect with, ah, that time is really well spent, and you probably actually ultimately wanna spend less time chasing stories than you. You you are if you’re just kind of doing the dahna oh, no, we need a press release conversation two weeks before that, and you’re also so much more likely to have a positive outcome absolutely and less frustration, absolutely absolutely the are they are in our great is responsive. Does this mean that our media strategy should be responsive? We’ve covered a little this already in the conversation, but really it’s about making sure that you’re not just pushing things at a reporter that you’re being responsive to that reporter’s needs and what here she might be working on. So it’s it’s really media relations there’s two words in it there’s media, obviously, but there’s relations it’s it’s building that relationship on dh kind of being attuned to and responsive to the needs of that reporter that you’re tryingto work with. So it means it means being available, it means, you know, helping connect them the sources it means sometimes actually saying we’re not the best source for you, but let me connect you to somebody at another organization who is on, and it also means to having some basic information on your website and some other places that are actually helping a reporter when they’re on a deadline, connect with you and get the information they need. So we talked a bit about the fact that a lot of non-profits don’t have, you know, a media or a pressroom page on their web sites, and if they dio, they may include a bunch of press releases there, but no contact information for for their media person on dh having been in that reporters share and looking for sources if i can’t find your media contact. Or a place to to connect with you. I’m going to move on to the next organization s o being responsible in some ways being proactive, too. It’s, you know, it’s it’s having some of those basic kind of, you know, building blocks in place to make sure that you’re you’re responding to the needs of the reporters. Internet let’s say little about this flesh is fallible, but in terms of deadlines and you know the urgency that a reporter has when they’re on assignment first, let me ask a basic question is this i used to learn back when i had relationships with people like stephanie strong at the new york times who once upon a time had the new york non-profit beat in the times that ten a m was a critical time like that was a deadline time for a lot of newspapers. Is that is that anachronistic maya dinosaur? Or does that there’s something like that still hold true? I know you’re not a dinosaur at all. I would never say that. Hee hee. I never say that, but every publication as their own deadlines and that’s another thing that speaks to what? What peter mentioned. Understanding the reporters deadline and i love whenever i reach out to people and they say what’s your deadline because they know that they’re going to try to help me keep things moving in a timely manner. That’s a good question, and one that might impress your reporter friend of what you just did. And the other aspect of this being responsive is that when the news breaks that might be related to your organization, one particular organization talked, and we share this example in the book about how there was a domestic violence situation, unfortunately, with nfl player in there state that really launched this conversation about domestic violence, and they responded, but, you know, when you’re where they call newsjacking you have to be ready to go on dh and be prepared to be the scout leader for the person leading the conversation and really no sharing why this particular thing that happens, your organization have been working with families to help ensure that that just doesn’t happen. So they were i mean, you know, when reporters call you calling back, understanding their deadlines, but also if you wanna happen, teo a popular topic in news cycle reach out to a reporter and say, i know everybody’s talking about me too, here’s, how our organization within that conversation and that’s what newsjacking is ok, just try and keep you out of jack in jail. You’re paroled, okay, but longs to explain the term newsjacking alright, so it’s taking advantage of what’s happening in the news, right, and seeing how your organization fits into it and can lend its expertise to the conversation. Absolutely. Okay, um, okay, okay. Um, anything else about well, events? Yeah, internet hyre peter. Peter was talking about events, and, you know, the ubiquitous gala press releases that he would see, but but hey, touched on this little bit. I want you to flush it out for me. If there is something newsworthy about your event, then, you know, highlight that, like he mentioned, uh, maybe a celebrity attending or something like that. Absolutely so that’s a good way to get the media out, offer them a media representative of a time before or after, where they can talk to the celebrity or the expert. You know, i’ve seen a lot of people successful when they had data report, and they offered this expert as they made it relatable to a community need, and then they offered an expert who will interview we do have a section where we talked about what to do to make your event we’d hear friendly, yes. So having been on the other side of that, you know, it has been a challenge with reporters show up everybody’s busy at the gala for the event, and, you know, things are hectic and the reporter shows up looking for the executive director, and no one can seem to find that person who was it? Who was the media contacts and doing something as simple as making a little place where you tell the reporter here’s where you could check in is nice and important, and you really don’t want the reporter roaming around, you know, in some cases talking to random people, so i went to one of it. And i assure you that i was there on assignment and never find anybody who would take the time to talk to me, so i went back and told my editor, we weren’t covering that story. So that’s that’s really, you know, one thing that people don’t think about that think about it in the media there when they’re they’re sometimes they are prepared, so we talk about how to how to make your event media’s really before, during and after the event and share some of your coaching tips for for when they are talking to the executive director ceo, the person may not be so media savvy. You have you have a lot of tips in the in the book share a couple of those for coaching in advance to prepare so coaching and prepare. You want to make sure your media person is on message that’s part of that goal conversation. So, you know, whoever is responsible for coaching the scout leader, that could be a boardmember a lot of times it is, and, you know, that’s, even worse, they don’t do work on the day to day basis, so you want to give them the key. Points, and he did don’t overwhelm them with information, but maybe even a sheet to say no if you get stuff, bring it back to this message and bring it back to this place. I recently experienced that i am on a community advisory board, so i was in that position where our public radio stations and they had a white board and the communications director was like, ok, tell me why you like public radio, and then she would tie it to key messaging, lifelong learners. So she said, well, just keep saying lifelong learners get stuck just say and i’m a lifelong learner, so that was messaging that they wanted to promote it fit within something that was very comfortable for my story and that’s a tip that i also get two people to make sure that that you give them some practical tips. But i’m not why they why they like being a part of your organization that they’re boardmember if there is the executive director, make sure they’re not doing day to day work, they’re busy thinking differently. Make sure they have a personal connection to the story. Peter, you can probably give tips for foundations. Sure, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it’s really about kind of both preparing the spokesperson or the leader for with, with what those key messages are, but it’s also kind of preparing them for what to do when they don’t know an answer to something, and in some cases it’s, it’s, it’s, even them saying, you know, i actually don’t have that information in my fingertips can i have? Can i have somebody follow up with you after the interview, or can we send you some more information afterwards? A reporter often, especially when they’re dealing with non-profits isn’t out to get you, you know, they want to get accurate, useful information, so though they’ll respect that and and and if you don’t know an answer to something, just say you don’t know an answer something and yeah, by the same token, you talk about the hot mic problem and the fact that anything that a reporter hears is fair game unless it’s explicitly off the record. Yes, there’s there’s tons more tips. Yeah, no, i think the one thing to keep in mind, though, is that anything you actually say can unless it’s it’s agreed upon between you and the reporter that it’s off the record and they can’t use it it’s fair game is shooting after they put their notebook and that the men away. Some of the best stuff i ever got as a reporter was after i put my notebook, you know, i closed my notebook and the doug, and it wasn’t deceptive at all. The people let their guard down a little bit, and they start talking a little bit more contemporaneously, and then you go in, the reporter might go back and say, oh, hey, do you mind if i write that down or can you can you talk a little bit more about that kind of make it give them a signal that there are they actually are still on the record, but but always assume when you’re talking to a reporter, when you’re when you’re sitting in front of a microphone like i am right now, that it’s getting picked up way have a president who knows that very well right now. All right, so you know what you say in the presence of a reporter is is on the record, and there are a lot more tips about coaching your ceo. We gotta take a break, tell us you’ve heard me say the test. The tellers, moughniyah, lt’s, tell us, moughniyah, lt’s from from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and air. Getting that revenue each month, and from the companies who are using tello’s. Four credit card processing can use more revenue that long stream of passive revenue. You’ve heard the tell us. Moughniyah, lt’s. Watch the video it’s at tony dot, m a slash tony. Tell us now, back to peter panepento and antionette car. Let’s, move on because we’re going to cover the whole word greek and there’s there’s more about were jumping around. We’re jumping to different parts of it a little bit as well. Just gr yeah, it comes e what do you mean, jumping around this a planned? Well, i mean, we’re kind of covering a little bit of empowered with some of the other things we’re talking about, okay? That’s what i’m saying? Yeah, you’re staying on target antionette hyre assault so anarchists but oppcoll look, i’ll keep you on a message, all right? I’ll help you with your media strategy, your media messaging. Okay, so yeah, there’s a lot more about being responsive. Just get the book for pizza. Alright? Empowered the ian. Great empowered what do this mean? Peter it’s really about kind of owning your message and being proactive in your in your in your work with reporters and wave touched on this issue at different points in the conversation here, but it’s really about not waiting for things to happen to you, but kind of being in a position where you’re where you’re taking an empowered and proactive role in talking about your organization and reaching out to reporters in showing up in the places where where they are so it’s not just again sending emails and press releases its making sure that your, you know your web page has the right information it’s making sure that yes, your own properties? Yeah, you know it’s actually properly it’s it’s, it’s identifying the reporters that you care most about uncover your beat following them on twitter and, you know, retweeting their messages and doing things they’re so you’re kind of showing up on their radar screen and getting their attention that way. It’s it’s really taking the steps that you can in little and big ways to to make sure that that, you know you are showing up and you are kind of putting yourself out there and all the places that really that really help your organization get a story told in the media also, if there’s some placement and it’s inaccurate o r you’re accused of being fake news or you have some rights in this process, absolutely too, and being empowered is recognizing what to do when when this story is wrong or, you know, you feel like something is mischaracterized you feel like somebody’s misquoted. They got a fact wrong, it’s it’s knowing that you have some tools in your toolbox to ask for a correction to run a write a response letter to the editor to take steps to actually own your message. Even in the cases where part of the story was missing or keep perspective was missing. Your organization’s left out of a story that you feel like you should have been in, you know, knowing that you actually have a right and and, uh and an ability to actually advocate for yourself and try to right those wrongs. And we have a lot of tips on how to do that. You also have advice on positioning your organization. Somebody within your organization is a thought leader. Yes. Power say little about s o and an answer not. And i both weigh both work on this issue quite a bit. It’s it’s. You know if and and ties back to your goal. Let’s, say your goal is to position your your organization, your community college as a place for lifelong learners. For people who are nontraditional students having and and by doing that one of the things you decide you want to do is you want to get the message out that there’s value in education in your thirties, forties and fifties, for instance, having an expert on your staff being kind of the voice for that issue, who’s out, advocating and talking about that in your in your own media, but also in her new media is really valuable. So having tony martignetti, the expert in our college, on lifelong learning and looking, you know, for opportunities for him to write op eds for him to be a voice in coverage of education around that issue. You’re branding a person and your organization is a thought leader, but by extension, you’re raising the profile of your organization and building relationships that will get you more media coverage and get you more attention from prospective students, prospective donors and others. There’s a lot of advice in the book about how to position yourself, how to make yourself ready, making organization ready for for to position yourself as as thought leaders plus thank you for the the durney talk pretty when he says my name martignetti martignetti three italians and thank you for that. Yeah, i should have made it about playing, giving. All right, because that’s where your i was going to admonish you that on very shortly start for our last break text to give mobile donations made easy, it’s, simple, affordable, secure. While i was on their sight for a few minutes last night, donations were popping up. The window pops up. Tells you with new donation the ten. Twenty, there are multiple fifties, there was a fifteen hundred donors are using them. Text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine for info on text to give and to claim your special listener offer. Got about six more minutes for your media relations strategy. Internet let’s. Turn to you, teo. Talk about the r is appealing. Your media relations strategy needs to be appealing. What do you two mean there? So we spent time interviewing other journalists about what they would like to see. Not just based on our experience, but we interviewed other people about what they wanted to see in covering non-profits and here’s. How that chapter came together. People told us what they what they wanted to see impressively. The list of them against the elements of a really good quote. I mentioned it. Earlier that people didn’t want to see, you know, great jargon were like, you know, since, um, you know, very it sounds like the official statement of the organization in the quote, but they were looking for something a little bit, you know, when one reporter described it exactly, like, give me something sexy and so that’s how this appealing conversation came about, and the other thing is visuals, a lot of people are under pressure, they might have one photographer that is going to cover breaking news or that that is really important because they high resolution, high quality photos and in some cases, officially, in the television side, videos for the website there’s a pressure we heard from television reporters to have other content on the web site outside of the interviews so that the media source can run that. So having me visuals are very appealing to people, and they’re very helpful when you’re covering something like data and report like, you know, some of us who like that, you know, like reports, but of others in immediate really need to know what’s appealing about your report, so having a very cool executive summary and maybe some really great brand messaging will be helpful. You know, something colorful, even a cover, read it and just spending that in your press early. So those are some of the things we talked about, and we also talk about if you are able to do that, it might be time that hyre announce that resource. So that’s, a question that came up for a lot of non-profit that we interviewed, like, when do we know it’s time to invest? We don’t have this ability to make it appealing or the time in our wheelhouse. So we just give some examples of when you might want to invest in and out, that a company that can help you get placement in coverage, like a turn to that, that that is a really question for non-profit. A little piece of earned media there, like like a turn, too. Yeah, turn hyphen to dr dot ceo that’s, right? Wow, yeah, yeah, bookmark it, everyone. I tell you something else. Ah, on appealing visual. Yeah, you sent you say in the book on lee on ly fourteen percent of the press releases that pr newswire hosts have have anything visual on them, even though it’s a very good idea was, like fourteen percent or doing it so you could be in the and you could be in the eighty sixth percentile. If you just start doing some writing, you’re having some visuals that a publication can not only get the attention of the reporter, but they could run with a story they might cover gives you a bit of a leg up having a photo having cem cem, you know, nicely produced infographics for report. You have those things actually can help tip the scales for you in a really big way, a little known secret at the chronicle, and i’m sure stacey palmer’s either going to be very happy or admonished me afterwards for saying this, but they don’t have a staff photographer at the chronicle philanthropy almost all of the photos they run, they either have to hire out or they get them from non-profits that air cover that that they’re covering, and having been inside the chronicle for years, um, you know, often it would fall on the reporter to actually find photos for a story and guess what if if i know a non-profit has an interesting perspective, and they have a great photo that could go with my piece and i and i and i know i can check that off my box and get that done, you know, i’m going to spend a little extra time talking to that non-profit making sure i can work them into the story because now i have a photo to go with the story so ah, a little piece of tip if you’re trying to get the chronicle, have some good photos available for him. Stacy problem, of course. Dropping names. She’s, the editor in chief? Yes, yes. Alright. Antionette i’m going to turn to you with a little bit of pressure. We just have about a minute. So would you explain targeted, please? I will indeed. We talked about it already in the we mentioned that somewhere in the goal oriented section again, this is identifying relationship. One of the things we talk about, we give an example of a non-profit that really had some great media coverage to a podcast that was related to the topic, so they work in the areas of george preservation, and they connected with george preservation podcasts and it’s the best media coverage they were able to receive, they were ableto have fun donors and boardmember through this relationship. So, you know, taking some time to sit down, we call it modern media relations because a lot of the other books were out before podcasts were even popular, but we really try to challenge people to think about a targeted strategy. And where is your audience? The best audience for you and your non-profit work? Yeah, i’ll give you thirty seconds on targeted. Yes. Oh, this podcast is example of that. Antoinette and i you know, when we were mapping out our media strategy for this book, we targeted a few outlets that we thought were really valuable. They were the outlets that reached non-profit leaders and folks who could benefit from this book. And guess what? You were on that list by implication buy-in non-profit radio is a valuable resource, absolutely. Bye. You know, we didn’t send this to folks who covered the textiles industry. We sent it to folks who cover non-profits and we were really targeted and who we knew we reached out to him. He’s peter panepento you’ll find him at turn hyphen too. Dot ceo and at peter panepento and she is antionette car at bold and bright media dot com and at the right folks w r i t internet peter. Thank you so, so much. Thank you. This was great pleasure. Thank you. My pleasure, antionette next week. Not sure have ever let you down, though, except for that one show on fermentation. But that aside, if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Twenty dahna slash pursuant capital p weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps, dot com bye tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, known to these teo co authors sam leaving, which is the line producer. You have to get the book to see how they know her. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the either ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get in. Thank you, cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in something potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. 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Nonprofit Radio for March 31, 2017: Who Needs Campaign Counsel

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Peter Panepento: Who Needs Campaign Counsel

Peter Panepento walks us through his report, “The Do-It-Yourself Fundraising Handbook.” Self-funding campaigns are rampant and Peter reveals how to do yours smartly. He’s a consultant and author of the report. (Originally aired September 2, 2016)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with distant my assis if you dared to infect me with the idea that you missed today’s show, who needs campaign counsel? Peter panepento walks us through his report do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook self-funding campaigns are rampant and peter reveals how to do yours smartly he’s, a consultant and author of the report this originally aired september second, twenty sixteen on tony’s take two thank you, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here is peter panepento on who needs campaign counsel three glad to welcome back peter panepento from like a short hiatus from the show’s on early last month, he’s, a freelance writer and principle of panepento strategies, a communications consultancy working with non-profits foundations and companies that serve the sector. He’s, a former assistant managing editor at the chronicle of philanthropy, he’s at panepento dot com and at p panepento peter welcome back. Great to be here, tony way. Haven’t gone too. I know that. What? What brings you back so quickly? This is this is unusual. Generalise does not happen. What? What the hell brings you back so fast? Well, i think it is the release of this new report on do-it-yourself fund-raising that i will work with the chronicle of philanthropy to produce within the last couple of weeks it went live. And i think due to the coincidences of timing, we have another interesting report to talk about pretty quickly. Okay. Excellent. I agree. That is that’s the reason dahna let’s. See? Alright, so do-it-yourself fund-raising what are we talking about? Let’s, make sure everybody knows what this thiss category is all about. Yes, and it’s. Ah, pretty rapidly emerging form of fund-raising. Although it’s not brand new. So if you think back over time, you may have seen campaigns where people decide they’re going to aa run across the country or try to break a guinness book of world records. You know, world records record or shave their head for a cancer charity. Um, these are typically do-it-yourself campaign these air campaign campaigns where a supporter of an organization takes it upon themselves to take on a challenge or do something on behalf of their favorite charity, and then solicits their friends and family for donations. Um, you know, if you think back about terry fox running across canada back in the nineteen seventies and eighties, um, if you even think more recently about the ice bucket challenge where a group of people, you know, decided that it would be ah, great way to raise money for a lot less research to double ice water over their heads. Um, these air campaigns where the charity isn’t doing the heavy lifting their supporters are, and they’re raising money on their behalf. Cool. All right, um, don’t we just call this peer-to-peer fund-raising well, it’s a it’s, a subset of peer-to-peer fund-raising peer-to-peer fund-raising also includes a lot of really charity managed events, so, you know peer-to-peer fund-raising includes walkathon, ds and runs and bike rides and things that are scheduled events that the charity organizes and then people oppcoll out and raise money for charity. Okay, do-it-yourself is really self organized events where the charity doesn’t schedule an event per se or really go to great lengths to organize it it these are things that are really done by the fundraisers themselves, the people who hatch a really interesting idea or or want to take on a challenge of their own, to raise money and with online platforms. Now charities are kind of starting to steer people a little bit and helping them and giving them the tools to do these campaigns on their own in a bit more of a formalised way than they’ve been done in the past, right? Cool. Okay, so i see it’s a it’s, a subset of peer-to-peer but you said the charity’s not organizing their, encouraging you to organize on your own and there’s enormous creativity, and we’re gonna have a chance to talk about some of that on on dh support from the charity, i guess charities air recognizing that if they create this support infrastructure and we’ll have a good chance to talk about all that, too, then you know, they just keep that up and their supporters can can go off and do vast numbers of campaigns all on their own. That’s right? And yeah, and that’s really what’s exciting about this and why a lot of non-profits are really moving into the space and trying to be more aggressive with with helping their their supporters do this for them because it can really become a almost a turnkey way. Teo, get teo, get fund-raising revenue. Now, there are a number of things that you have to do to enable it, and there are pasta oppcoll into it’s doing well, right? We’ll talk about later, but what’s exciting and promising for a lot of organizations as it takes the onus off of them to have to organize some huge event with tons of volunteers and lots of dates staff to make happen. And it gives the tools to the people who are out there raising the money for them to do a lot of that for them. Excellent. Cool. All right, all right. Um, so i know you have lots of examples of great support let’s go in. And the first thing that the report recommends is that there be a a strong platform and we’re just have, like, two minutes or so before our first break. Just so you know, okay, well, i’ll quickly talk about strong platform, and then we can come back to it after a break up, you know, for sure what a lot of charities are doing, and really charity water is one of the groups that hyre knew this is they have created sections of their website where they offer fundraisers, although our, you know, supporters all the tools they need to raise money into do-it-yourself campaign and charity water has done it, giving people the tools to give up their birthdays or their weddings or create their own challenges on their website, and then it really walks them through the process of setting up the campaign, soliciting their friends and doing everything along the way that you need to do to actually successfully execute one of these campaigns as an individual. So a lot of organizations are now investing in creating these platforms almost in the same model that charity water has done. Groups like the world wildlife fund has created a a platform called panda nation, where people can engage in do-it-yourself campaigns and a lot of other organizations that, you know, largely national charities with some local ones, too, are starting to try to create these types of platforms that really give people everything they need teo to do these campaigns and gives them some guard rails and rules of the renault is help them do them well, yeah, panda nation, i love that at a world wildlife that’s called panda nation. Um, i think we might be talking about st baldrick’s to you. You admire a lot of the work that they do around this. Yeah, they are a little bit different in that they they organized people around a specific activity, which is having people volunteered to shave their heads to raise money, right? Ok, so they’re they’re narrowing the focus of what they want volunteers to do exactly what they’ve been able to raise tens of millions of dollars doing it, and they have that really built up a lot of a lot of support and a lot of supporters for their they’re caused by focusing all of their fund-raising really on this activity and providing a lot of the same tools that the other sites are provided to do that so they are a great example of of a group to emulate. If you’re looking at getting into this, uh, space, they’re a bit dinner structured in terms of what the options are and how they encourage people to do it, but ah lot of the same tactics and ideas that apply to other platforms are ones that they’ve really mastered it perfected over the years. Let’s, go out for a first break and you and i’ll keep talking, see if we have anything more to say about the platforms, and then we got conversation about cem. Examples of challenges and marketing and stewardship stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way hyre welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love et cetera right now because i’m just about being back in the studio. It’s been three weeks. I’m pretty sure that was recorded so let’s let’s go abroad first with the live listen love going abroad. Brooklyn, new york now that’s. Not very nice. I’m sorry i take that back. Brooklyn, you’re part of the five boroughs. Let’s really go abroad! Mexico city, mexico welcome live listen her love to you brenholz tartus hi beh china and we have multiple china actually knee how? Seoul, south korea always checking in just like china on your haserot comes home, nita, we have a couple in brazil. We conceicao paulo, we can’t see the other city in brazil, but we know you’re there live listener love teo multiple listeners in brazil we get everybody up vietnam dung, vietnam live ilsen love to you is, well, let’s. Come back into the u s new bern, north carolina st louis, missouri, weehawken, new jersey, brooklyn, new york you deserve a second shot out since i was unkind to brooklyn, bridgeport, connecticut all live listener love to each of each of those and there’s more coming, when we do the live, listen, love course, we got to the podcast pleasantries, because how could we not? How could i who’s the week there’s, no, corporate, we its eye? I’m the host here. I need to be grateful, and i am, in fact, for the over ten thousand listeners each week listening on the podcast, most ofyou on itunes, then stitcher and then lots of other smaller platforms. Player dot fm and podcast, dot net or something, and there’s, one in germany, etcetera, over ten thousand podcast listeners pleasantries to you, the affiliate affections, always going out up our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Let your station no, would you? If you’re if you’re listening on am fm, if you’re one of our affiliate listeners, let your station know that you appreciate non-profit radio, they will appreciate that feedback, and i will, too affections to our affiliate am and fm listeners. Thank you for that indulgence. Peter panepento gotta be going too good to the audience, so thank you. You absolutely do. And you’re not doing this without an audience. Thie audiences, really? Why we’re here talking right now. So if you have to make sure that we’re engaging them and listening back to them to sew for it, i do. I do indeed. So thank you very much. Let’s. Talk about some of the examples. You have some cool examples you mentioned already. Mike fox? No. You to mention mike fox of the the mike. I’m conflating two things. Yeah, there. I got a guy. I got a job with cary out there. Yeah, this couple foxes, right? But somebody got the jump. So i talked about terry fox, who was a cancer patient in canada. Way back. I think in nineteen eighty who excuse me, made worldwide headlines for his quest to run across canada and raise money for cancer research, and he actually died on his mission on dhe never completed the quest, but he’s been a national hero in canada and had really became a model for, you know, the individual who was willing to take on big challenges for big personal challenges to raise money for a cause that matters. And a lot of others have followed in his footsteps over the years, and one of them was a guy named sam fox who, interestingly, raises money for the michael j fox foundation. So i guess we do have a lot of fox’s, trail blazers and do-it-yourself fund-raising but he got he got that job. Damn fox, who was somebody actually interviewed several years? You know, when i was working at the chronicle on staff, he ran the pacific coast trail, i believe, to raise to raise money for for the michael j fox foundation in support of his mother, who was i was dealing with parkinson’s disease and went through some pretty substantial challenges and raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the charity as a result of that, um, and on top, on top of his efforts. They actually ended up bringing him on staff to lead uh, uh, basically one of the first do-it-yourself charity sponsor campaigns where he was going out and helping people create their own challenges for the michael j fox foundation. Those are a couple of pretty prominent examples of people who take on extreme challenges to do this. But there’s also a number of people who are doing pretty ordinary thanks to we mentioned head shaving earlier on dh we mentioned how charity water has really pioneered or kind of owned the space on people, pledging their birthdays to raise money for the charity. You know, people are doing all kinds of things there, you know, there organizing your own pancake breakfast. They are, you know, taking on, you know, all kinds of challenges to try to break in a book of world records records, whether it’s around tennis, volleying or bringing groups of people together to sing together and different things like that. So there’s a there’s, a lot of different modes that these campaigns models of these campaigns follow and that’s part of what makes it interesting and fun to see how people are doing this. There’s also the fear ones, there’s, bungee jumping. The report mentions singing karaoke e although i have to find it hard to believe that that’s a real fear. But i guess because somebody is afraid of karaoke e but i that to me is something i’m really but i guess that would probably be something that would not. Yeah, well, if you have, if you have stage fright, i guess that could be a legitimate fear. But anyway, people were you it would be facing us here, but actually, you know, maybe a chance for society. They created a campaign last year called the fearless champ challenge, which was essentially that people could buy-in basically acknowledged what their biggest fear is, and they could collect pledges up to it. You know, a certain dollar level on def. People hit the pole for the pledge than the person would then go and face their fear. Right? So you know, tony let’s say you, you know, let’s, you know, let’s say i am i my biggest fear is actually singing karaoke with you. I know you totally upstage. May i would, you know, tell my friends that you know, if if i collect five thousand dollars in pledges. My friend tony has agreed to have me sing with him. Uh, you know, and then, you know, once that pleasure was hit, you know, you and i would then go and do that, and we would report back with a video of well, did everybody so that they could then laugh at how fat i was doing it. So and they had quite a bit of success with that. They had people do everything from, you know, agreed a bungee jump, tohave spiders crawl over them to eat something that they are, you know, that you know, some food that they’re either afraid of r who are, you know, just, you know, disgusted by all kinds of different things. And again, that leaves the door open for a lot of imagination and a lot of different ways that people can can you can do something personal and fund now to raise money. Long term listeners. The show will remember that years ago, back when i used to chase likes on facebook, i had something under three hundred and a couple of high school friends challenged me that if they could get to three hundred, get me two, three hundred likes the facebook page. The non-profit radio facebook page, not mine. If they would get me to three hundred, then what would i do? And i agreed to do a blue pedicure. Get a blue pedicure on the way. We called it the blue pedicure challenge. And indeed they got me to the three hundred and i went to a salon across the street here on seventy second street in new york city. On die. Got it. I got the boot pedicure. And i chronicled that you could goto the my youtube channel and you will see there’s. There are, i think, there’s three videos there’s. One of me making the appointment and choosing my color had avery. You know, i was kind of a royal blue. I think i chose on dh then there’s one or two. But i think i did it into segments. The actual pedicure and there’s, the waxing, et cetera. The application, of course. The drying, the massaging. Um, what else? Ah, over the parapet treatment. Oh, the hot, powerful treatment that was that’s. A classic. So anything that was that was a highlight of the i have not gotten a pedicure. Since then, but lou pedicure challenges out there, and so, you know, i wouldn’t exactly say i was a pioneer in do-it-yourself fund-raising but it was a way of having fun is exactly what you’re talking about. Exactly, and you know it. You khun, you know, you could be really creative with these and do really personal things. And, you know, if you have, you know, if you have a following on social media or on youtube, this could be another great way for for youto capitalize on that and do some good for your favorite charity. So i don’t think i was familiar with the blue pedicure challenge. That’s. Pretty interesting. Yeah. You know that david has a keel. Who? Right, who runs a peer-to-peer form and is doing a lot of work in this issue. He came up with a for a charity a few years ago, came up with a hot pepper challenge. And, um, i believe he collected past pledges and had others collect pledges for the number of hot cuppers they could even one sitting so there’s. Lots of different ways you can do this. My dad would be into the hot pepper challenge habanero. Is like metoo fish for him. I don’t know if it’s a jew ji food for him. Hadi’s nero’s. Okay, let’s, go right. So we know that we have to have support now, here’s, where we start to get into the infrastructure. And there is, as you mentioned, there’s a cost involved with this there’s overhead. There has to be a platform for you to send people to when they decide that they would like to fund-raising for you in this way. What is this? What is this? This is the platform for the volunteers. We’re going to run their own campaign. What is this platform need thio provide them with? Well, it needs to provide him with a few things. And i know a lot of the the software vendors who served the space are very good at helping build these platforms to and actually have models for them. So if you’re working with one of those companies already there, there may actually be ah, ah, kid or some kind of starter thatyou could use through that vendor toe actually help you get that started. And i won’t name names on vendors here. We’re agnostic, right? No, no, no. Wait, hold on, hold on. Wait, give shoutouts. Teo ifit’s a resource related to what we’re talking about, right? This. Right? Right. So, you know, give you yeah, if you work with the black blotter, a donor driver or any one of those software companies, chances are they’re there now offering some kind of a package for this. And we’ll work with you on creating it. But what it essentially needs tto have in addition to a mechanism for actually collecting donations, typically are, you know, an explanation of how to do that. You know how to do it. Some examples in ways for people to easily set up a campaign. Um, it needs teo, equip them with ways teo message and use social media and e mail actually reach out to their friends and tell them about the campaign that they’re doing. Um and it usually gives them a mechanism for for, you know, reporting back to them and thanking them and actually collecting the donation. So it, you know, all of these platforms of bail tend to look a little bit different, and they give people some different options. But essentially you need to give people a currency. Experience that allows them to do every part of their campaign through your platform and give them the tools to do it very easily. The easier you can make it for people too, not only make the ass, but, you know, post photos and makes, you know, share on social media and and be very clear about how how they could be most effective in doing that better success, you’re going tohave with those with those with those platforms naturally right? You gotta make it easy for your for your volunteers. I’m absolutely ok once we have this. All right. So that’s there some investment? They’re going toe create this yourself which felt like not necessary, but or pay for for a module that’s a turnkey teo be integrated into your sight one way or another. Whether it’s, a vendor, you’re working for somebody you bring on for this. Oh, you purchased for this for this purpose? Exactly. All right. And then we need to be able to we need to drive our volunteers to this. Paige, this platform platform what’s your advice around that? Yeah. And this is probably as crucial. Is having a platform itself is actually making people aware that it’s there and getting them to engage with it, um and, you know, we you know, as we’ve been studying this and i’ve i’ve done this bull foot, the chronicle, and with david hesse kills peer-to-peer forum and talking organizations that air trying this there are some that have essentially created the platform and then not done much marketing behind it and have been, you know, somewhat surprised that nobody came and really used it and raised much money for them. Um, so you really need to do some marketing behind it. You need to think about what audiences or or groups are most likely to want to raise money on your behalf and then and then build a marketing campaign that actually makes them aware that it’s there and comes up with some fun ways to engage them in that, um, the canadian cancer society, which has had a lot of success and this is also invested quite a bit of money in search engine optimization, so that when people type in cancer and fund-raising their sight comes up, so part of it is being being smart about what people might be searching for if they’re our interest in your cause and want to do something about it, you know, making sure that you’ve done the search engine optimization and the google ads and other things that allow your platform to show up when people are actually motivated to do something they mean, you know, they specifically for health charities, they may be very interested in trying to do something for a disease that’s affected a level another themselves or or a friend who may have passed away due to a certain type of cancer making sure that you have your site top of mind and top of google, i guess, for situations like that is it is another important thing to be thinking about investing in on and then making sure that it has a prominent place within your own web universe, that you’re promoting it on your home page in your email newsletters, in any of the other things that you’re doing to make people aware that it’s there and that you’re you’re actually spotlighting examples of others who are doing it for you, too. On google adwords, we just had a show within the past couple of weeks exactly on that topic and the segment is called google adwords, a reminder that google offers ten thousand dollars per month. Complimentary add word add word edward edwards for non-profits so if if you want, if you’re not taking advantage of that, listen to that show on glad words and well, it will get you started, so i mean, essentially is no different than driving people anywhere else. You have facebook page, you have to drive them to that. You have a website, you want to drive people there? Um, you know, it zoho about the marketing and promotions. I’m surprised that there are organizations that are surprised if they set up a platform that nobody comes to it. You have to. Well, i mean, marketing and promotions is one of those things that for non-profits is sometimes a difficult thing to get budget for. So you, you know, and that’s one of the big challenges facing the sector, i think, is that it’s an overhead costs, and it becomes something that a lot of organizations are a little, you know, either budget conscious or don’t necessarily think of it, it is up front and they need teo but it’s something that’s really crucial in a. You know, in a in a, um, environment like this, especially when it’s not built around a specific events or one thing that the organization is doing. This is something that has to be almost on billing. Marketing, uh, because unlike a walkathon or ah, a single event that you can put a lot of weight behind it for a few months and then take the rest of the year off. Something you you almost have to budget for and and work on your round. Okay. Agreed on dh. Yeah, well, and certainly you invest this money. You want this to be a platform that’s going to be used? I don’t know. What’s what’s. A big number for your organization. Hundreds of times, thousands of times or tens of thousands of times. Yeah. You got to keep driving people to it more with peter coming up first. Pursuant, they have a new breakthrough fund-raising content paper for you, not a webinar. This was a content paper. You need to raise more money. This will help you get there, helps you break through two extraordinarily good, better fund-raising it’s. Like all the pursuing content, it is free free, free you’ll. Find the content paper at pursuing dot com click resource is then content papers couldn’t be simpler. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for millennial fund-raising it’s a game show in a local place as a fundraiser for your organization. That’s what these bees are spelling the concert standup comedy live music dancing you’ll see it all in the video from just one night, one of their many nights video is that we be e spelling dot com now time for tony’s take two i thank you so much for listening. We are over twelve thousand in aggregate, the big group, but i’m thanking you. You if you’re listening live, you’ve got your phone and your laptop, your desktop. I’m talking to you right now podcast. If i’m in your ears, i hope you’re not one of those, uh, in a public space and you got your speaker blasting if you are, then i’m telling you that everybody around you is looking at you right now, wishing you to turn your phone down or plug it in. But if that’s not you, then you can ignore that admonition. Thank you, podcast listeners if you are, if that’s your format so glad that you are with us and for the affiliate listeners. So, so glad that you are with us through your am and fm station. However, you’re consuming the show, i’m glad you’re with us. I am grateful for your support. The show wouldn’t be where it is if it wasn’t for each of you individually, you, you, you and you and you times twelve thousand if you are getting my insider alerts on a weekly basis. So you know who the show guests are each week and you know, the video that i do each week get advance linked to that i thank you for accepting that insider alert in your inbox, what each week, each and every week the guy sends the insider alert’s driving metoo maddening? No, i thank you about twelve hundred eleven, twelve hundred on the insider alerts, and this is not a promotion, so i’m not going to tell you how to get them. You can go to tony martignetti dot com, but i’m thanking you if you are getting them and what the heck for a lot of people, you don’t even need him. You’re gonna listen to the show anyway. You don’t need the insider alerts, however you’re consuming the show, however you’re enjoying it. Thank you for being with me, that is tony’s take two here is more of peter panepento. Peter panepento thanks for hanging in there again, your urination, your gracious guy see, i usually don’t have people on for the full hour and even rarer full hour by phone, but you’re you’re you’re reasonably articulate and ah, and engaging so s so i i thought, you know, that’s actually, my tagline let you hang on, okay, should that that kind of lackluster expectations and all your clients would be excited because you’re under produce your under promising and weigh over performing, i’m sure hyre okay, let’s, um all right, i just i guess i just want to stress something on this on this platform and the marketing that your you do that you’re doing to drive people to the to this platform, it really needs to encourage creativity around. I mean, that’s absurd and all the things you’ve been saying that all these vast examples, but of challenges that people have taken out, but you really want encourage people to think outside the the box of what everybody else. Has done the run, the whatever, yes, and so part of it is is giving them some some examples of things that they can do, whether they’re made up examples of things that you would love to see somebody try on your behalf or whether these are things that somebody may have done free organization already and telling the story about that and making sure that that you’re giving them some some guidance on on some of the types of things that they can do on your behalf is really important here. So, um, some, uh, organizations like the world wildlife fund on their panda pages, they actually they have categories of events that end challenges that people can take on to help guide, you know, things that they think their supporters are going to be interested in doing, but also giving them ah, platform to jump off and create their own ideas. Yes. Okay, um, or that you’re able to do that, and and then, you know, and the back end of it really market the fact and tell the stories of the people who are doing campaigns for you so you could spot light them? Um, i think that’s really helpful? Murcott charity water has done again a great job of this two whenever they’ve had somebody do a creative campaign for them, and they’ve had some creative ones, they had somebody swim naked from san francisco to alcatraz after they after they reached a certain fund-raising level and then they also had somebody who who hated the band nickelback. All right, right? This kind listens. Yes decided to basically listen to them nonstop for one hundred sixty eight hour straight at people if people don’t hate it enough to him and when we hold people then and he had a subject himself to that auditory experience, how many hours? How many bonem but they’ve they’ve done a great job of then in turn, you know, telling those stories, you know, creating block post featuring on their home page, creating videos about these things so that they can then show those back to their supporters as examples but also as ways to get attention for the organization. Yeah, cool. How many days is one hundred sixty eight hours? I don’t know what that is that a week? Maybe at seventeen? I don’t know, i was told there’d be no math on this interview, tony. You put me on the spot. You weren’t. You weren’t told that by me. That’s ok, that’s a long time. Hundreds, six hours. I wouldn’t even i wouldn’t have thought that the band nickelback had one hundred sixty eight hours. Maybe he had to replay because handup clolery place. And i hope i hope he was sleeping in there. Some point. Yeah, i was warning about that on dpi breaks also. Okay, let’s, move on. So now, after your your volunteers have done there campaigns or while they’re in the midst of them sorry, i should say what, while they’re in the midst of that, they need support. They they need to be told how to promote their own campaign inside your platform and latto asked and howto follow-up etcetera. Yeah, and this is another really key. Part of it is, once you get them there and get them to agree to do something, you have to walk them through the process. And, um, this is crucial with any peer-to-peer campaign. You know, a lot of organizations have gotten very, very sophisticated at making sure that they’re providing very clear instruction and motivations to their fundraisers around events that they’re doing and sending them e mails, you know, being available to feel their phone calls and questions and and providing incentives to them for reaching different fund-raising global’s along the way with these campaigns, you have to do the same thing. You really have to make sure that you have systems in place to be communicating pretty regularly with the people who agree tio take on one of these challenges and and giving them tips and advice and and maybe even many challenges along the way i do to help them be successful with these. So a lot of a lot of the more successful campaigns, they’re ones that you no have, ah series of e mails that they send out at various times to participants, you know, telling them how to how did for what’s that they’re friends, uh, you know, reminding them when they haven’t sent out ah message or collected ah, niu donation in awhile and giving them prompts and different things along the way to help them, um, help them be successful with the song fund-raising and some organizations actually have staff people who will, you know, reach out personally. By phone or e mail and make sure that their questions are being answered and that they’re getting the support they need along the way to do well, yeah, that’s where this is would be a challenge, i think, for some smaller shops you you need to be able teo provide that. I mean, well, are there organizations that are doing it all on lee automated, and they don’t have personal support like that, like, you know, a line you can call or someone you can chat with live? Is that maybe maybe that’s less common than i’m realizing? How common is that personal support? Well, i think, you know, for a lot of the larger campaigns are a lot of it is automated, and but but they do have some people who are minding the store and watching and making sure that when people are, you know, bumping their heads and facing challenges are now being very active, that they are following up with them and being being in touch with them. Um, so but, you know, in talking to a lot of these groups, this is an area that is a challenge for them is figuring out what is the right level of support to offer? How can they do this in a way where they’re not, you know, creating a whole new fund-raising arm in their organization, but are still providing that level of support and and, uh, service that’s needed teo do this well, andan other thing we’re hearing and because this is a pretty new form of fund-raising there are actual questions, a lot of organizations about, you know, who in the organization and, you know, should be leading these efforts and where it should live? Is it something that lives holy in the development department? Does it live in your marketing shop? Doesn’t live in some cases in your technology section because they’re the ones who are leading the platform. I’ve spoken to people and organizations who, where all kinds of different hats who are engaged in leading these campaigns and i think, um, i think it’s going to take a little bit of time to figure out what the best practices are in term and most effective practices are making sure that if you are going to lead do-it-yourself campaign that that you have fought through, you know how to, uh how how to structure and howto have the right people in the organization leading it. Your research didn’t lead youto find that there’s there’s one ah form of organization or location where this lives that’s that’s more popular than others. It’s really is pretty much a scattershot still it’s been a bit scattershot, but i think the groups that are most most advanced on it are ones that already have peer-to-peer fund-raising it’s part of their part of their tool kit. Um, i think the groups that, you know have people that are there organizing walks and rides and various other peer-to-peer programs are seeing the opportunities here first because they’re engaged with this kind of fund-raising already and they’re they’re talking to each other, so a lot of groups are doing this out of their, you know, their peer-to-peer arm of their organizations already, but, you know, world wildlife fund, you know, this has been a major technological investment for them, so they have technology people who are really kind of the key voices within the organization on that and for charity water. This was, uh, pretty much an essential and central part of the organization when it found it ten years ago, with these types of campaigns, so i think, it’s, much more marketing driven through that organization, so there’s different different avenues to get there, but for groups that are starting and now, and you are researching it now, these are questions that they’re starting to ask, okay, um, interesting. Ah, pronunciation. Now you say charity water, i say charity water, i’m putting the emphasis on water. So now i suddenly i don’t like to quibble on non-profit radio, although i am, but but i don’t know, i i think it should be charity water, because that doesn’t scott harrison want the emphasis on the water and not on the charity part? I’m pretty sure he does. You’re absolutely right. Charity water charted water, charity water, not charity. Charity, border, charity, charity water. I’m sure, but i’m pretty sure it should be charity water. Okay, well, we have actually we’ve got some live. Listen, love. We got new york, new york. A wonderful buy from charity. Water is listening, but also joining us a new afresh. Oakland, california. Boston, massachusetts and tehran, iran. Wow, live listen love to each of those and we got more if i didn’t say your country yet, then? Ah, you’re coming, so live listen, love going out to even more countries in a few moments, but okay, i’m a digression on princessa how? Yeah, where do you excuse me? Charity water, though? It’s it’s, charity durney water. Well, i just i think i just gave you the definitive att leased for purposes of this show, but this is the center of the universe. So as far as i’m concerned, that’s the way it ought to be for all, for all being in all time. But at least when you’re on my show, you know, yeah, i charity water, but i’ve never heard scott harrison, so i don’t know he’s the ceo of charity water for those i don’t mean to name drop not like he’s a friend. I just know of him. Charity water. Okay, yes. So you’re essentially all right. So i understand that there’s there’s there’s timing challenges around what level of support and when people need support, but essentially the principle is you need to be a cheerleader for your volunteer fund-raising resort out there, absolutely. And you need to be talking to them regularly and giving them instruction. And as you said being a cheerleader, encouraging them, but also giving them, uh, advice and help along the way. I helped them do this successfully. And, you know, while there isn’t a straight formula for a lot of these, uh, campaigns yet in terms of you have tto send seven e mails over the course of two months, uh, you know, to make these work most effectively what’s, very clear is that you have to have something that is that is regular and consistent and as clear as possible. And then you have to be paying attention to the results of those different communications and seeing what’s working and learning from that so that you can put your, uh, put the right emphasis on the right things. Moving forward. School. Okay, let’s, go out for our last break. And when we come back to peter and i’ll keep talking ah, about this, of course, and we got a bit of a double edged sword there’s opportunities here. But there’s also challenges. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trans sounded life that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i am his niece, carmela. And i am his nephew, gino. I love that drop. But i got i got i gotta tear listening to them. Well, i was just with them last week in down the beach. More live listener love. Here it is i promised it since since last tehran iran checking in live love going out to tehran, chunking china and also guangdong, china now taipei, taiwan. I don’t know if type has been with us much, but certainly ni hao going out to taiwan as well. And also newberg, newberg, germany cool gooden dog for germany gotta love the live love i do i do all right, peter, we have just, like, five minutes left or so roughly, i’d say, is that about right, sam? Get a little more than that, like, ten minutes. So let’s, talk a little about how this is ah, bit of ah, double edged sword. You alluded to some of the challenges, but let’s start with an upside. On the other hand, you’re getting lots of new donors which creates a challenge, right? You you’re getting new donors on dure also finding ways to engage some of the current donors you have who may be, you know, looking for something new and a new way to support your organization? Yes, but yeah, but the challenge that becomes whenever you get new donors is is how do you how do you bring them into your organization and make sure that they don’t become a one and done donor on dh that’s? I think a big a particular challenge for these kinds of campaigns because they’re not, quote unquote traditional in the same way where somebody who gives to you through a through, you know, a mail campaign or even through a personal solicitation, these air folks who are doing something that’s kind of unique and different and may only do it once for you because it is so unique and different, i think it’s probably in a lot of cases, a lot easier to take on a physical challenge once and ask people for money than it is to do it a second time. There’s a novelty to a lot of these things, so for a lot of organizations they are, they’re happy to get the money and build the connection with thes supporters, but they’re struggling a bit on how to how to do that stewardship and kind of move them up. The engagement ladder so that they do more things with some down the line. Um, and this has been particularly true for the a l s association after the ice bucket challenge or something they didn’t even plan for an organized to create a platform for this, but they suddenly had a lot of donors who were who were taking part in a massive do-it-yourself campaign who are now part of their donordigital face and they’ve been really, you know, thinking about and struggling over the last couple of years the right way and the most effective way to keep them engaged in the organization and to get them to come back and get more down the line. That was let’s talk about the number, then there’s two and a half million to something new donors to the organization, right? Yeah, i think. And on and on top of that, a lot of them had no connections the cause before they embark in this campaign for a lot of them, they don’t have a personal connection to a less, but they were made aware of it, and they were compelled enough not only you know, um uh, take the challenge. But also to write a check and give to the organization so they they have this massive opportunity, but they but they can’t communicate with these owners in the same way that they do those who are have been part of their network for a long time. Um, and they can’t necessarily count on, ah, high number of them that turn around and get to them again. Yeah, i know that that was one of the things that barbara, uh, sure, i can remember her last name remember the name of the ceo of charity water, peter barbara. She was a guest in any case, it’s not so much a lot. The last slaughter, who is up development person and, you know, they’ve they’ve come up with some some things that they think are working well for them, and one of them is is communicating a lot about the impact of the gifts that we’re given and talking about the progress that those gifts have made on dh then in turn, saying, you know, additional support will help us get, you know, here, here and here, so they’re they’re really putting a big focus on, you know, showing not only showing the impact of the gifts, but also showing that they’ve been spending those funds wisely and are getting results out of it. And that’s that’s been a message they found not only works well, but also validates a lot of aa lot of what people did for them two years ago when they did that. Yeah, well, that za smart way to start to engage people and they had all sorts of challenges in and opportunities when this thing broke without twenty fourteen i guess the in fact and it was almost two years it was two years ago it ended, right? I’m pretty sure it ended. Really. It was the equivalent of winning the lottery, right? For sure, you know, they suddenly had all of this great, these great, unexpected resource is but, you know, when you’re not planning for that there’s, you know, there’s a lot of challenges, that pompel offense, so you know, there, dave, i think dahna very responsible job of communicating about about those challenges and how they’re addressing them and what they’re learning along the way, but you know, it is it’s almost impossible to fall into something like that and have the and have everything in place that you need to be able, teo capitalize on a perfectly yeah, it’s fell in their lap, and, uh, that was, as i was starting to say, that was one of the challenges that barbara and i talked about when she was on in would’ve been october of twenty fourteen. She was a guest for the hour. In fact, we recorded that at the chronicle, flat to the studio, because they’re in washington, d c andi, i was down there and worked it out, but i actually remember that one. Yeah, that was that was one of that. That was one of the highest profile. You damn well, second to this one. Of course, that means break today, right? That’s, right, that’s, right. Okay, s so you know, how do how do shepherd these new donors to your organizations work longer term? All right, clearly. So that’s one and i think another another key challenges is budgeting for this. You know, some some of these campaigns kind of jumped the wall and becoming really successful. Um, a and a lot of cases you can’t plan for that and b you can’t necessarily expect to replicate in the next year. So if you have somebody who, you know, does a, uh do-it-yourself campaign and they raise two hundred or three hundred thousand dollars for you, um, you can’t necessarily expect that donor to do the same thing for you next year. So how do you plan for that? How do you make sure you budget, um, responsibly for that revenue and set the right expectations within your organization. That’s? So that’s another challenge that we’ve heard organizations reply or to us something else that’s mentioned in the report. That’s very closely related to that. Budgeting for for the future is just getting the volunteers to do repeat campaigns in the future. Right? Right. And that’s. Some that’s. That’s. Certainly a big challenge. St baldrick’s. Has been great with us. They’ve found a really creative way. Tio encourage people, tio take part multiple times and there’s their head chadband shaving campaigns um, and they’ve excuse me. Created am a secret society, i guess it’s not a secret society, but a society called the knights of the bald table. And if you take part in seven, uh, had shaving campaigns with them, they actually we’ll hold an event for you and have, uh, you know, basically ah, knighting ceremony for you. And you get a special pen and you get quite a bit of recognition for it. So, you know, there are some ways that organizations are tryingto deal with this issue and find some fun and creative ways to get people to come back and do something more than once. But it is a challenge because, you know, the first time i see i’m going to go sing karaoke with tony. My friends may think it’s a fun saying the second time they were like, well, i saw that act already. Yeah, right. Supported again, right, let’s like me doing blue pedicure challenge too, right? Right. Who cares now, now, now, if i did read pure a pedicure challenge, that would it would be different that way, a whole new campaign that’s completely different, but you can’t go back to the blue, you can never go back. All right, we have a couple more minutes left and what have we not talked about? What if i not ask you that you’d like to like to like to? Well, i think one one thing i think is really interesting on this is just the fact that it is such a a kind of an evolving form of fund-raising that that organizations are really craving information and craving opportunities connect with each other about it. So you know one thing that i’m working that try to identify our ways that not only can can we provide good resource is through the chronicle truth peer-to-peer forum and through other sources like this, but also how can we bring people together and get them talking about this war? And i certainly would welcome you know, anybody in the audience who is thinking about this and working on this, who wants to talk about it, to reach out to me, reach out to you and find a way to further the conversation because i i think because, you know, because it is such a evolving form of of a kind of formal fund-raising now you know, the book is still being written, so to speak, on how to do it well, and the more input we could get, the better contact, peter, because once this is over, i have no interest in the topic. I’m committed to nothing, so contact peter directly. Alright, i’m more than happy to take the no, i’m committed. I’m committed everything. All right, he’s on twitter, he’s at p panepento write the name of the report is the do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook is there? Ah, is there a convenient earl at a to chronicle site? Peter or no, i have a far from convenience. Okay, yeah, that’s the one i have, so just the do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook, you’ll find it on the chronicle of philanthropy site labbate and and i believe they are after labor day going to start really heavily marketing it, and including it and their philanthropy today newsletter another six to so there will be you know, there’ll be a lot of opportunities to see it, and if you follow me on twitter, i will be tweeting about it. And sharing the limbs there quite a bit over the next few weeks as well. Okay, very cool. Very cool. All right. So i want to thank you again for coming on quickly again, since just since august. That was very gracious of you. You do call report. So? So i’m happy to give voice to them. But now i’ve lost interest in the topic. So it’s all good. So we get fifty, fifty minutes your attention and that’s it. Yeah, i get that there’s a lot going on. It’s. A busy place? Absolutely. Well, i look forward to the next. The next time i help with something that is of interest to you for, you know, a half hour and hour that’s right about it trying to move on. And we’ve got another next-gen. Alright, do not assume it’ll be an hour next time. Thank you for well done. No, thank you very much. Peter. Thankyou. Thankyou, tony. All right. My pleasure. Next week. Have i ever let you down? Well, maybe there was that one show on fermentation that that was a bit sour. That was august second. Twenty thirteen. Sorry about that, you know, puns. The it’s. The most creative form of humor, unless you’re not the one who thought of it. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. It was me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy, the stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane. Toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts, tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for September 2, 2016: Who Needs Campaign Counsel?

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Peter Panepento: Who Needs Campaign Counsel?

Peter Panepento is back with a new report, “The Do-It-Yourself Fundraising Handbook.” Self-funding campaigns are rampant and Peter walks you through how to do yours smartly. He’s a consultant and author of the report.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of retro fire inge itis if i had to speak the words you missed today’s show who needs campaign counsel? Peter panepento is back with a new report, the do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook self-funding campaigns are rampant, and peter walks you through how to do yours smartly he’s, a consultant and author of that report, and he’s with me for the hour on tony’s take two non-profit radio testimonials responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com three glad to welcome back peter panepento from like a short hiatus from the show’s on early last month, he’s, a freelance writer and principle of panepento strategies, a communications consultancy working with non-profits foundations and companies that serve the sector. He’s, a former assistant managing editor at the chronicle of philanthropy, he’s at panepento dot com and at p panepento peter, welcome back. Great to be here, tony way, haven’t gone, too. I know that. What what brings you back so quickly? This is this is unusual. Generalise does not happen. What what the hell brings you back so fast? Well, i think it is the release of this new report on, um, do-it-yourself fund-raising that i worked with the chronicle of philanthropy to produce within the last couple of weeks, there went live, and i think due to the coincidences of timing, we have another interesting report to talk about pretty quickly. Okay, excellent. I agree, that is that’s. The reason. Let’s see? Alright, so do-it-yourself fund-raising what are we talking about? Let’s? Make sure everybody knows what this thing’s category is all about. Yes, and it’s ah, pretty rapidly emerging form of fund-raising although it’s not brand new. So if you think back over time, you may have seen campaigns where people decide they’re going teo one across the country, or try to break a guinness book of world records, you know, world records record or shave their head for a cancer charity. These are typically do-it-yourself campaign, these air compan campaigns where a supporter of an organization takes it upon themselves to to take on a challenge or do something on behalf of their favorite charity, and then solicit their friends and family for donation. Um, you know, if you think back about terry fox running across canada back in the nineteen seventies and eighties, um, if you even think more recently about the ice bucket challenge where a group of people, you know, decided that it would be a great way to raise money for a lot less research to double ice water over their heads. Um, these air campaigns where the charity isn’t doing the heavy lifting their supporters are, and they’re raising money on their behalf. Cool. All right, um, don’t we just call this peer-to-peer fund-raising well, it’s a it’s, a subset of peer-to-peer fund-raising peer-to-peer fund-raising also includes a lot of really charity managed events, so you know peer-to-peer fund-raising includes walkathon, ds and runs and bike rides and things that are scheduled events that the charity organizes, and then people go out and raise money for charity. Oh, god do-it-yourself is really self organized events where the charity doesn’t schedule an event per se or really go to great lengths to organize it. It these are things that are really done by the fundraisers themselves, the people who hatched a really interesting idea or or want to take on a challenge of their own, to raise money and with online platforms. Now charities are kind of starting to steer people a little bit and helping them and giving them the tools to do these campaigns on their own in a bit more of a formalised way than they’ve been done in the past, right? Cool. Okay, so i see it’s a it’s, a subset of peer-to-peer but you said the charity’s not organizing. Their encouraging you to organize on your own and there’s enormous creativity, and we’re gonna have a chance to talk about some of that on on dh support from the charity, i guess charities air recognizing that if they create this support infrastructure and we’ll have a good chance to talk about all that, too, then you know, they just keep that up and their supporters can can go off and do vast numbers of campaigns all on their own that’s right? And yeah, and that’s really what’s exciting about this and why a lot of non-profits are really moving into the space and trying to be more aggressive with with helping their their supporters do this for them because it can really become a almost a turnkey way. Teo, get teo, get fund-raising revenue. Now there are a number of things that you have to do to enable it, and there are pasta oppcoll into it’s doing well, right? We’ll talk about later, but what’s exciting and promising for a lot of organizations as it takes the onus off of them to have to organize some huge event with tons of volunteers and lots of dates staff to make. Happen, and it gives the tools to the people who are out there raising the money for them to do a lot of that for them. Excellent. Cool. All right, all right. Um, so i know you have lots of examples of great support let’s go in. And the first thing that the report recommends is that there be a ah, a strong platform, and we’re just have, like, two minutes or so before our first break, just so you know, okay, well, i’ll quickly talk about a strong platform, and then we can come back to it after a break up. You know, for sure what a lot of charities are doing. And really charity water is one of the groups that hyre knew this is they have created sections of their website where they offer fundraisers, although our, you know, supporters all the tools they need to raise money into do-it-yourself campaign and charity water has done it, giving people the tools to give up their birthdays or their weddings or create their own challenges on their website. And then it really walks them through the process of setting up the campaign, soliciting their friends um and doing everything along the way that you need to do to actually successfully execute one of these campaigns as an individual. So a lot of organizations are now investing in creating these platforms almost in the same model that charity water has done. Groups like the world wildlife fund has created a a platform called panda nation, where people can engage in do-it-yourself campaigns and a lot of other organizations that, you know, largely national charities with some local ones, too, are starting to try to create these types of platforms that really give people everything they need. Teo, do these campaigns and gives them some guard rails and rules of the road. I would help them do them. Well, yeah. Panda nation. I love that the world wildlife that’s called panda nation. Um, i think we might be talking about st baldrick’s to you. You admire a lot of the work that they do around this. Yeah, they are a little bit different in that. They they organized people around us pacific activity, which is having people volunteered to shave their heads to raise money. Right? Ok, so they’re they’re narrowing the focus of what they want volunteers to do. Exactly what they’ve been able to raise tens of millions of dollars doing it, and they have really built up a lot of a lot of support and a lot of supporters for their they’re caused by focusing all of their fund-raising really on this activity and providing a lot of the same tools that the other sites are providing to do that. So they are a great example of of a group to emulate if you’re looking at getting into this, uh, space, they’re a bit dinner structured in terms of what the options are and how they encourage people to do it, but ah, lot of the same tactics and ideas, um, that applied to other platforms are ones that they’ve really mastered it perfected over the years. Let’s go out for a first break and you and i’ll keep talking see if we have anything more to say about the platforms, and then we got conversation about cem examples of challenges and marketing and stewardship stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once. A month tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love et cetera right now because i’m just about being back in the studio. It’s been three weeks. I’m pretty sure that was recorded so let’s let’s go abroad first with the live listen love going abroad. Brooklyn, new york now that’s. Not very nice. I’m sorry i take that back. Brooklyn, you’re part of the five boroughs. Let’s really go abroad! Mexico city, mexico welcome live listen her love to you brenholz tartus! Hi beh china and we have multiple china actually knee how? Seoul, south korea always checking in just like china on your haserot comes home, nita, we have a couple in brazil. We conceicao paulo, we can’t see the other city in brazil, but we know you’re there live listener love teo multiple listeners in brazil wade get everybody up! Vietnam dung, vietnam live ilsen love to you is, well, let’s. Come back into the u s new bern, north carolina st louis, missouri we hawk in new jersey, brooklyn, new york. You deserve a second shot out since i was unkind to brooklyn. Bridgeport, connecticut all live listener love to each of each of those and there’s more coming when we do the live. Listen, love course, we got to the podcast pleasantries, because how could we not? How could i who’s the week there’s, no, corporate, we its eye? I’m the host here. I need to be grateful, and i am, in fact, for the over ten thousand listeners each week listening on the podcast, most ofyou on itunes, then stitcher and then lots of other smaller platforms. Player dot fm and podcast, dot net or something, and there’s, one in germany, etcetera, over ten thousand podcast listeners pleasantries to you, the affiliate affections, always going out to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Let your station no, would you? If you’re if you’re listening on am fm, if you’re one of our affiliate listeners, let your station know that you appreciate non-profit radio, they will appreciate that feedback, and i will, too affections to our affiliate am and fm listeners. Thank you for that indulgence. Peter panepento gotta be gotta be good to the audience, so thank you. You absolutely do. And you’re not doing this without an audience. Thie audiences, really? Why we’re here talking right now. So if you have to make sure that we’re engaging them and and listening back to them to sew for it, i do. I do indeed. So thank you very much. Let’s. Talk about some of the examples. You have some cool examples you mentioned already. Mike fox? No. You to mention mike fox of the the mike. I’m conflating two things. Yeah, there. I got a guy. I got a job with cary out there. Yeah, this couple foxes, right? But somebody got the jump. So i talked about terry fox, who was a cancer patient in canada. A way back. I think in nineteen eighty who excuse me, made worldwide headlines for his quest to run across canada and raise money for cancer research and he actually died on his mission on dhe never completed the quest, but he’s been a national hero in canada and had really became a model for, you know, the individual who was willing to take on big challenges for big personal challenges to raise money for a cause that matters. And a lot of others have followed in his footsteps over the years, and one of them was a guy named sam fox who, ah, interestingly, raises money for the michael j fox foundation. So i guess we do have a lot of fox’s, trail blazers and do-it-yourself fund-raising but he got he got that job. Damn fox, who was somebody actually interviewed several years ago when i was working at the chronicle on staff, he ran the pacific coast trail, i believe, to raise to raise money for for the michael j fox foundation support of his mother, who was i was dealing with parkinson’s disease and went through some pretty substantial challenges and raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the charity as a result of that, um and on top on top of his efforts, they actually ended up bringing him on staff to lead uh, uh, basically one of the first do-it-yourself charity sponsor campaigns where he was going out and helping people create their own challenges for the michael j fox foundation. Those are a couple of pretty prominent examples of people who take on extreme challenges to do this, but, um, there’s also a number of people who are doing pretty ordinary thanks to we mentioned head shaving earlier on dh we mentioned how charity water has really pioneered or kind of owned the space on people, touching their birthdays to raise money for the charity. You know, people, they’re doing all kinds of things there, you know, there organizing your own pancake breakfasts. They are wuebben, you know, taking on, you know, all kinds of challenges to try to break in a book of world records records, whether it’s around tennis, volleying or bringing groups of people together to sing together and different things like that. So there’s a there’s, a lot of different modes that these campaigns models of these campaigns follow and that’s part of what makes it interesting and fun to see how people are doing this. There’s also the fear ones. There’s, bungee jumping. The report mentions singing karaoke e although i have to find it hard to believe that that’s a real fear. But i guess because somebody is afraid of karaoke e but i that to me is something i’m really but i guess that would probably be something that would not e yeah, well, if you have, if you have stage fright, i guess that could be a legitimate fear. But anyway, people were you it would be facing us here, but actually, you know, maybe a chance for society. They created a campaign last year called the fearless champ challenge, which was essentially that people could buy-in basically acknowledged what their biggest fear is, and they could collect pledges up to it. You know, a certain dollar level on def. People hit the pole for the pledge than the person would then go and face their fear. Right? So you know, tony let’s say you, you know, let’s, you know, let’s say i am i my biggest fear is actually singing karaoke with you. I know you totally upstage. May i would, you know, tell my friends that you know, if if i collect five thousand dollars on pledges. My friend tony has agreed to have me sing with him. Uh, you know, and then, you know, once that pleasure was hit, you know, you and i would then go and do that, and we would report back with a video of, well, everybody so that they could then laugh at how fat i was doing it. So and they had quite a bit of success with that. They had people do everything from, you know, agreed a bungee jump, tohave spiders crawl over them to eat something that they are, you know, that you know, some food that they’re either afraid of. R oh, are, you know, just, you know, disgusted by all kinds of different things. And again, that leaves the door open for a lot of imagination and a lot of different ways that people can can you can do something personal and fund to raise money. Long term listeners. The show will remember that years ago, back when i used to chase likes on facebook, i had something under three hundred and a couple of high school friends challenged me that if they could get to three hundred get me two, three hundred likes the facebook page. The non-profit radio facebook page, not mine. If they would get me to three hundred, then what would i do? And i agreed to do a blue pedicure. Get a blue pedicure on the way. We called it the blue pedicure challenge. And indeed, they got me to the three hundred, and i went to a salon across the street here on seventy second street in new york city. And i got it. I got the boot pedicure, and i chronicled that you could goto the my youtube channel and you’ll see there’s. There are i think there are three videos. There’s, one of me making the appointment and choosing my color had avery. You know, i was kind of a royal blue. I think i chose on dh, then there’s one or two. But i think i did it into segments. The actual pedicure and there’s, the waxing, et cetera. The application, of course. The drying, the massaging. Um, what else? Ah, over the parapet treatment. Oh, the hot, powerful treatment that was that’s. A classic. So anything that was that was a highlight of the i have not gotten. A pedicure since then, but blue pedicure challenges out there and so, you know, i wouldn’t exactly say i was a pioneer in do-it-yourself fund-raising but it was a way of having fun is exactly what you’re talking about. Exactly, and you know it. You, khun, you know, you could be really creative with ease and do really personal things. And, you know, if you have, you know, if you have a following on social media or on youtube, that could be another great way for for youto capitalize on that and do some good for your favorite charity. So i don’t think i was familiar with the blue pedicure challenge. That’s. Pretty interesting. Yeah, you know that david has a keel who writes who runs a peer-to-peer form and is doing a lot of work in this issue. He came up with a for a charity a few years ago, came up with a hot pepper challenge, and i believe he collected pet pledges and had others collect pledges for the number of hot cuppers they could even one sitting so there’s. Lots of different ways you can do this. My dad will be into the hot pepper challenge. Habanero is like tuna fish for him. I don’t know. It’s it’s, a judy food for him. Hadi’s! Nero’s. Okay, let’s, go right. So we know that we have to have support now, here’s, where we start to get into the infrastructure. And there is, as you mentioned, there’s a cost involved with this there’s overhead. There has to be a platform for you to send people to when they decide that they would like to fund-raising for you in this way. What is this? What is this? This is the platform for the volunteers. We’re going to run their own campaign. What is this platform need thio provide them with? Well, it needs to provide him with a few things. And i know a lot of the software vendors who served the space are very good at helping build these platforms to and actually have models for them. So if you’re working with one of those companies already there, there may actually be ah, ah, kid or some kind of starter thatyou could use through that vendor to actually help you get that started. And i won’t name names on vendors here. We’re agnostic, right? No, no, no, wait. Hold on, hold on. Wait, give shoutouts. Teo ifit’s a resource related to what we’re talking about, right this. Right? Right. So if you know what give you if you work with the black blotter, a donor driver or any one of those software companies, chances are they’re there now offering some kind of a package for this, and we’ll work with you on creating it. But what it essentially needs tto have in addition to a mechanism for actually collecting donations, typically are, you know, an explanation of how to do that. You know how to do it. Some examples in ways for people to easily set up a campaign. Um, it needs teo equip them with ways tio the message and use social media and e mail actually reach out to their friends and tell them about the campaign that they’re doing. Um and it usually gives them a mechanism for for, you know, reporting back to them and thanking them and actually collecting the donation. So it, you know, all of these, um, platforms of they’ll tend to look a little bit different, and they give people some different options, but essentially you need to give people a currency experience that allows them to do every part of their campaign through your platform and give them the tools to do it very easily. The easier you can make it for people, too, not only make the ask, but, you know, post photos and makes, you know, share on social media and and be very clear about how how they could be most effective in doing that better success, you’re going tohave with those with those with those platforms naturally. Right. You gotta make it easy for your for your volunteers. Absolutely. Okay, once we have this. All right. So that’s there some investment there you’re goingto create this yourself which felt like not necessary, but or pay for for a module that’s a turnkey teo, be integrated into your sight one way or another. Whether it’s, a vendor, you’re working for somebody you bring on for this. Oh, are you purchased for this? For this purpose? Exactly. All right. And then we need to be able to we need to drive our volunteers to this. Paige. This platform platform what’s your advice around that? Yeah. This is probably as crucial is having the platform itself is actually making people aware that it’s there and getting them to engage with it and you know, we you know, as we’ve been studying this and i’ve i’ve done this both with the chronicle and with david hesse kills peer-to-peer forum on dh talking organizations that air trying this there are some that have essentially created the platform and then not done much marketing behind it and have been, you know, somewhat surprised that nobody came and really used it and raise much money for them. Um, so you really need to do some marketing behind it. You need to think about what audiences or or groups are most likely to want to raise money on your behalf and then and then build a marketing campaign that actually makes them aware that it’s there and comes up with some front ways to engage them in that, um, the canadian cancer society, which has had a lot of success and this is also invested quite a bit of money in search engine optimization, so that when people type in cancer and fund-raising their sight comes up, so part of it is being being smart about what people might be searching for if there are interested in your cause and want to do something about it, you know, making sure that you’ve done the search engine optimization and the google ads and other things that allow your platform to show up when people are actually motivated to do something they mean, you know, they specifically for health charities, they may be very interested in trying to do something for a disease that’s affected a level another themselves or or a friend who may have passed away due to a certain type of cancer making sure that you have your site top of mind and top of google, i guess, for situations like that is it is another important thing to be thinking about investing in, um and then making sure that it has a prominent place within your own web universe, that you’re promoting it on your home page in your email newsletters, in any of the other things that you’re doing to make people aware that it’s there and that you’re you’re actually spotlighting examples of others who are doing it for you, too. On google adwords, we just had a show within the past couple of weeks exactly on that topic. And the segment is called google adwords, a reminder that google offers ten thousand dollars per month. Complimentary add word. Add word. Edward edwards for non-profits. So if if you want, if you’re not taking advantage of that, listen to that show on glad words and well, it will get you started. So, i mean, essentially is no different than driving people anywhere else, and you have a facebook page, you have to drive them to that. You have a website, you want to drive people there, you know, it zoho about the marketing and promotions. I’m surprised that there are organizations that have surprised if they set up a platform that nobody comes to it. You have to. Well, i mean, marketing and promotions is one of those things that for non-profits eyes sometimes a difficult thing to get budget for. So you, you know, and that’s one of the big challenges facing the sector, i think, is that it’s an overhead costs, and it becomes something that a lot of organizations are a little, you know, either budget conscious or don’t necessarily think of it, it is up front as they need teo, but it’s something that’s really crucial in a, you know, in a in a environment like this, especially when it’s not built around a specific events or one thing that the organization is doing this is something that has to be almost on billing marketing because unlike a walkathon or, ah, a single event that you can put a lot of weight behind it for a few months and then take the rest of the year off. Something you you almost have to budget for and and work on your round. Okay. Agreed on dh. Yeah, well, and certainly you invest this money. You want this to be a platform that’s going to be used? I don’t know. What’s what’s. A big number for your organization hundreds of times, thousands of times or tens of thousands of times. Yeah. You got to keep driving people to it. Um, all right, we get teo teo, talk a little about cem, our sponsors, and, uh, and tony, take two. So, peter, hang on and you and i’ll will keep talking shortly. Okay, terrific. So there’s more of who needs campaign counsel coming up first, pursuing you need to raise a lot of money at year end. And i know that your urine push is in planning now or it’s going to be very soon, maybe right after right after labor day is pretty typical for your and planning. Take a look at year end accelerator by pursuant. They’re combining proven best practices with innovation in acquisition and cultivation strategies. All to improve your year end. So you have you have a real strong year and push. Check that out. It’s pursuant dot com slash year end accelerator we’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising these are not your mother’s spelling bee. This is not your seventh grade spelling bee. They have live music, concerts, dancing, stand up comedy fund-raising and they managed to get spelling into so these these nights are a ton of fun. There is a ah really cool video that shows all these things. I just i just rattled off. You’ll see the video at wi be spelling dot com and b is b e we be spelling dot com now time for tony’s take two this week i am boasting and i’m bragging this’s my gushing gaskin aid because you have got to hear the testimonials that listeners have posted in itunes reviews. Really very thoughtful. I love them so i’m grateful there’s over sixty of them. And i highlight a few of them in the video, which is at tony martignetti dot com. I hope i chose yours. If you want to check out whether i chose yours, check out the video. The testimonial video at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two. Peter panepento thanks for hanging in there again, your urination, your gracious guy see, i usually don’t have people on for the full hour and even rarer full hour by phone, but you’re you’re you’re reasonably articulate and ah, and engaging so s so i i thought, you know, that’s actually, my tagline let you hang on, okay, should that that kind of lackluster expectations and all your clients would be excited because you’re under produce your under promising and weigh over performing, i’m sure. Okay, let’s, um all right, i just i guess i just want to stress something on this on this platform and the marketing that your you do that you’re doing to drive people to the to this platform. It really needs to encourage creativity around. I mean, that’s absurd and all the things you’ve been saying that all these vast examples, but of challenges that people have taken out, but you really want to encourage people to think outside the the box of what everybody else has done the run, the whatever, yes, and so part of it is is giving them some. Some examples of things that they can do, whether they’re made up examples of things that you would love to see somebody try on your behalf or whether these are things that somebody may have done free organization already and telling the story about that and making sure that that you’re giving them some some guidance on on some of the types of things that they can do on your behalf is really important here. So, um, some, uh, organizations like the world wildlife fund on their panda pages, they actually they have categories of events that on and challenges that people can take on, um, to help guide, you know, things that they think their supporters are going to be interested in doing, but also giving them ah, platform to jump off and create their own ideas. Yes. Okay, um, or that you’re able to do that, and and then, you know, and the back and event really market the fact and tell the stories of the people who are doing campaigns for you so you could spot light them. Um, i think that’s really helpful charity water has done again a great job of this two whenever they’ve had somebody do a a creative campaign for them and they’ve had some creative ones, they had somebody swim naked from san francisco to alcatraz after they after they reached a certain fund-raising level, and then they also had somebody who who hated the band nickelback. All right, right? This kind listens. Yes decided to basically listen to them nonstop for one hundred sixty eight hour straight at people if people donated enough to him and when we hold, people did. And he had a subject himself to that auditory experience. How many hours? How many bones? But they’ve they’ve done a great job of then in turn, you know, telling those stories, you know, creating block post featuring on their home page, creating videos about these things so that they can then show those back to their supporters as examples but also as ways to get attention for the organization. So, yeah, cool. How many days is one hundred sixty eight hours? I don’t know what that is that a week? Maybe that’s seven? I don’t know. I was told there’d be no math on this interview. Tony, you put me on the spot. You weren’t you weren’t told. That by me that’s. Okay, that’s a long time hundred sixty eight hours. I wouldn’t even i wouldn’t have thought that the band nickelback had one hundred sixty eight hours. Maybe he had to replay, you know, your place. And i hope i hope he was sleeping in there at some point. Yeah, i was warning about that on dpi breaks also. Okay, let’s, move on. So now, after your your volunteers have done their campaigns, or rather in the midst of them sorry, i should say what, while they’re in the midst of that, they need support, they they need to be told how to promote their own campaign inside your platform and latto asked and howto follow-up etcetera. Yeah, and this is another really key. Part of it is, once you get them there and get them to agree to do something, you have to walk them through the process, and this is crucial with any peer-to-peer campaign. You know, a lot of organizations have gotten very, very sophisticated at making sure that they’re providing very clear instruction and motivations to their fundraisers around events that they’re doing and sending them e mails, you know, being available latto feel their phone calls and questions and and providing incentives to them for reaching different fund-raising global’s along the way with these campaigns, you have to do the same thing. You really have to, uh, make sure that you have systems in place to be communicating pretty regularly with the people who agree, tio take on one of these challenges and and giving them tips and advice and and maybe even many challenges along the way i do to help them be successful with these. So a lot of a lot of the more successful campaigns, they’re ones that you no have, ah series of e mails that they send out at various times to participants, you know, telling them how to how did for what’s that they’re friends, uh, you know, reminding them when they haven’t sent out ah, message or collected, ah, new donation in awhile and giving them prompts and different things along the way to help them help them be successful with the sun. Fund-raising and, uh, some organizations actually have staff people who will, you know, reach out personally by phone or e mail and make sure that their questions are being answered and that they’re getting the support they need along the way to do well, yeah, that’s where this is would be a challenge, i think for some smaller shops. You you need to be able teo provide that. I mean, well, are there organizations that are doing it all on lee automated? And they don’t have personal support like that, like, you know, a line you can call or someone you can chat with live. Is that maybe maybe that’s less common than i’m realizing? How common is that personal support? Well, i think, you know, for a lot of the larger campaigns are a lot of it is automated, and but but they do have some people who are minding the store and watching and making sure that when people are, you know, bumping their heads and facing challenges are now being very active, that they are following up with them and being being in touch with them. So but, you know, in talking to a lot of these groups, this is an area that is a challenge for them is figuring out what is the right level of support to offer. How can they do this in a way where? They’re not, you know, creating a whole new fund-raising arm in their organization, but are still providing that level of support and and service that’s needed to do this well, andan other thing we’re hearing and because this is a pretty new form of fund-raising there are actual questions, a lot of organizations about, you know, who in the organization and, you know, should be leading these efforts and where it should live, is it something that lives wholly in the development department? Doesn’t live in your marketing shop doesn’t live in some cases in your technology section because they’re the ones who are our leading the platform. I’ve spoken to people and organizations who where all kinds of different hats who are engaged in leading these campaigns and i think, um, i think it’s going to take a little bit of time to figure out what the best practices are in term and most effective practices are making sure that if you are going to lead do-it-yourself campaign that that you have fought through, you know how to, uh, how, how to structure and howto have the right people in the organization leading it, your research didn’t lead youto find that there’s there’s one ah, form of organization or location where this lives that’s that’s more popular than others. It’s really is pretty much a scattershot still it’s been a bit scattershot, but i think the groups that are most most advanced on it are ones that already have peer-to-peer fund-raising it’s part of their part of their tool kit. Um, i think the groups that, you know have people that are there organizing walks and rides and various other peer-to-peer programs are seeing the opportunities here first because they’re engaged with this kind of fund-raising already and they’re they’re talking to each other. So a lot of groups are doing this out of their, you know, their peer-to-peer arm of their organizations already, uh, but, you know, world wildlife fund, you know, this has been a major technological investment for them, so they have technology people who are really kind of the key voices within the organization, on that and for charity water. This was, uh, pretty much an essential and central part of the organization when i founded ten years ago with these types of campaigns. So i think, it’s, much more marketing driven through that organization. So there’s different different avenues to get there, but for groups that are starting in now and under are researching it now, these are questions that they’re starting to ask. Okay, um, interesting. Ah, pronunciation. Now you say charity water, i say charity water, i’m putting the emphasis on water. So now i suddenly i don’t like to quibble on non-profit radio, although i am, but i but i don’t know, i i think it should be charity water because there’s no doesn’t scott harrison want the emphasis on the water and not on the charity part? I’m pretty sure he does. You’re absolutely right. Charity water charted water, charity, water, charity, charity, border, charity, charity water i’m sure, but i’m pretty sure it should be charity water. Okay, well, we have actually we’ve got some live. Listen, love we got new york, new york a wonderful buy from charity. Water is listening, but also joining us a new afresh. Oakland, california. Boston, massachusetts and tehran, iran wow, live listen love to each of those and we got more if i didn’t say your country yet, then ah, you’re you’re coming so live listen love going out to even more countries in a few moments, but okay, i’m like aggression on princessa zoho yeah, where do you excuse charity water, though? It’s it’s, charity durney water. Well, i just i think i just gave you the definitive att leased for purposes of this show, but this is the center of the universe. So as far as i’m concerned, that’s the way it ought to be for, for all, for all being in all time. But at least when you’re on my show, you know, yeah, i charity water, but i’ve never heard scott harrison, so i don’t know he’s the ceo of charity water for those i don’t mean to name drop not like he’s a friend, i just know of him charity water. Okay, yes. So you’re essentially all right. So i understand that there’s there’s there’s timing challenges around what level of support and when people need support, but essentially the principle is you need to be a cheerleader for your volunteer fund-raising resort out there, absolutely. And you need to be talking to them regularly and giving them instruction and as you said, being a cheerleader, encouraging them but also giving them, uh, advice and help along. The way i helped them do this successfully, and, you know, while there isn’t a straight formula for a lot of these, uh, campaigns yet, in terms of you have tto send seven e mails over the course of two months, uh, you know, to make these work most effectively. What’s, very clear is that you have to have something that is that is regular and consistent and as clear as possible. And then you have to be paying attention to the results of those different communications and seeing what’s working and learning from that so that you can put your, uh, put the right emphasis on the right things moving forward. Cool. Okay, let’s, go out for our last break. And when we come back to peter and i’ll keep talking. Ah, about this, of course, and we got a bit of a double edged sword. There’s opportunities here, but there’s also challenges. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation talk. Trans sounded life that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i am his niece, carmela. And i am his nephew, gino. Love that drop. But i got i got i gotta tear listening to them. Well, i was just with them last week in down the beach more live listener love. Here it is i promised it since since last tehran iran checking in live love going out to tehran, chunking china and also guangdong, china now taipei, taiwan i don’t know if type has been with us much, but certainly ni hao going out to taiwan as well. And also newberg, newberg, germany cool gooden dog for germany gotta love the live love i do i do all right, peter, we have just like, five minutes left or so roughly, i’d say. Is that about right, sam? Get a little more than that, like, ten minutes. So let’s, talk a little about how this is a bit of ah, double edged sword. You alluded to some of the challenges, but let’s start with an upside. On the other hand, you’re getting lots of new donors, which creates a challenge, right? You you’re getting new donors on dure also finding ways to engage some of the current donors you have who may be, you know, looking for something new and a new way to support your organization? Yes, but yeah, but the challenge that becomes whenever you get new donors is is how do you how do you bring them into your organization and make sure that they don’t become a one and done donor on dh that’s? I think a big a particular challenge for these kinds of campaigns because they’re not, quote unquote traditional in the same way where somebody who gives to you through a through, you know, a mail campaign or even through a personal solicitation, these air folks who are doing something that’s kind of unique and different and may only do it once for you because it is so unique and different, i think it’s probably in a lot of cases, a lot easier to take on a physical challenge once and ask people for money than it is to do it a second time. There’s a novelty to a lot of these things, so for a lot of organizations they are, they’re happy to get the money and build the connection with thes supporters, but they’re struggling a bit on how to how to do that stewardship and kind of move them up the engagement ladder so that they do more things with him down the line. Um, and this has been particularly true for the a l s association after the ice bucket challenge or something. They didn’t even plan for an organized to create a platform for this, but they suddenly had a lot of donors who were who were taking part in a massive do-it-yourself campaign who are now part of their donors database, and they’ve been really, you know, thinking about and struggling over the last couple of years the right way and the most effective way to keep them engaged in the organization and to get them to come back and get more down the line. That was let’s talk about the number, then there’s two and a half million to something new donors to the organization, right? Yeah, i think it. And on top of that, a lot of them had no connections the cause before they embark in this campaign for a lot of them, they don’t have a personal connection to a less, but they were made aware of it, and they were compelled enough not only you know, um uh, take the challenge, but also to write a check and give to the organization so they they have this massive opportunity, but they but they can’t communicate with these donors in the same way that they do those who are have been part of their network for a long time. Um, and they can’t necessarily count on ah, high number of them that turn around and get to them again. Yeah, i know that that was one of the things that barbara, uh, sure, i can remember her last name remember the name of the ceo of charity water, peter barbara. She was a guest in any case, it’s not so much a lot. The last slaughter, who is their top development person and, you know, they’ve they’ve come up with some some things that they think are working well for them, and one of them is is communicating a lot about the impact of the gifts that we’re given and talking about the progress that those gifts have made on dh then in turn, saying, you know, additional support will help us get, you know, here, here and here, so they’re they’re really putting a big focus on, you know, showing not only showing the impact of the gifts, but also showing that they’ve been spending those funds wisely and are getting results out of it. And that’s that’s been a message they found not only works well, but also validates a lot of ah lot of what people did for them two years ago when they did yeah, wellit’s a smart way to start to engage people, and they had all sorts of challenges in and opportunities when this thing broke without twenty fourteen against the in fact, and it was almost two years it was two years ago, it ended august, right? I’m pretty sure it ended. Really. It was the equivalent of winning the lottery, right? For sure, you know, they suddenly had all of this. Great. Um, these great, unexpected resource is but, you know, when you’re not planning for that there’s, you know, there’s a lot of challenges, that pompel offense, so you know, there, dave, i think dahna very responsible job of communicating about about those challenges and how they’re addressing them and what they’re learning along the way, but you know it it’s almost impossible to fall into something like that and have the and have everything. In place that you need to be able, teo capitalize on a perfectly, yeah, it’s tze fell in their lap. And, uh, that was, as i was starting to say, that was one of the challenges that barbara and i talked about when she was on in wuebben october of twenty fourteen. She was a guest for the hour. In fact, we recorded that at the chronicle, flat to the studio, because they’re in washington, d c andi, i was down there and worked it out, but i actually remember that one. Yeah, that was one of that. That was one of the highest profile well, second to this one, of course, that’s, right, that’s, right, that’s, right. Okay, s so, you know, how do how do you shepherd these new donors to your organization’s worked longer term, all right, clearly. So that’s one and i think another another key challenges is budgeting for this. You know, some some of these campaigns kind of jumped the wall and becoming really successful. Um, a and a lot of cases you can’t plan for that, and you can’t viscerally expect to replicate in the next year. So if you have somebody who, you know, does a, uh do-it-yourself campaign and they raise two hundred or three hundred thousand dollars for you, um, you can’t necessarily expect that donor to do the same thing for you next year. So how do you plan for that? How do you make sure you budget, um, responsibly for that revenue and set the right expectations within your organization. That’s. So that’s. Another challenge that we’ve heard organization’s report to us. Something else that’s mentioned in the report. That’s very closely related to that. Budgeting for for the future is just getting the volunteers to do repeat campaigns in the future. Right? Right. And that’s. Some that’s. That’s. Certainly a big challenge. St baldrick’s has been great with us. They’ve found a really creative way. Tio encourage people, tio take part multiple times and there’s their head chadband shaving campaigns um, and they’ve excuse me created am a secret society, i guess it’s not a secret society, but a society called the knights of the bald table. And if you take part in seven, uh, had shaving campaigns with them, they actually we’ll hold an event for you and have, uh, you know, basically ah, knighting ceremony for you. And you get a special pen and you get quite a bit of recognition for it. So, you know, there are some ways that organizations are tryingto deal with this issue and find some fun and creative ways to get people to come back and do something more than once. But it is a challenge because, you know, the first time i see i’m going to go sing karaoke with tony. My friends may think it’s a fun saying the second time they were like, well, i saw that act already. Yeah, right. Supported again, right, let’s like me doing blue pedicure challenge too great, right? Who cares now, now, now, if i did read pure a pedicure challenge, that would that would be different that way. A whole new campaign that’s completely different, but you can’t go back to the blue, you can never go back. Um, all right, we have a couple more minutes left. And what have we not talked about? What if i not ask you that you’d like to like to like to? Well, i think one one thing i think is really interesting on this is just the fact that it is such a a kind of an evolving form of fund-raising that that organizations are really craving information and craving opportunities connect with each other about it. So you know one thing that i’m working that try to identify our ways that not only can can we provide good resource is through the chronicle truth peer-to-peer forum and through other sources like this, but also how can we bring people together and get them talking about this war? And i certainly would welcome you know, anybody in the audience who is thinking about this and working on this, who wants to talk about it to reach out to me, reach out to you and find a way to further the conversation because i i think you know, because it’s such a evolving form of a kind of formal fund-raising now you know the book is still being written, so to speak, on how to do it well, and the more input we could get, the better contact, peter, because once this is over, i have no interest in the topic. I’m committed to nothing, so contact peter directly. Alright, i’m more than happy to know i’m committed. I’m committed everything all right. He’s on twitter, he’s at p panepento write the name of the report is the do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook. Is there a is there a convenient earl at att the chronicle site? Peter? Um or no, i have a far from convenience. Okay, yeah. That’s the one i have. So just the do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook, you’ll find it on the chronicle of philanthropy site labbate and and i believe they are after labor day going to start really heavily marketing it, and including it and their philanthropy today newsletter another six to so there will be you know, there’ll be a lot of opportunities see it. And if you follow me on twitter, i will be tweeting about it and sharing the limbs. There quite a bit over the next few weeks as well. Okay, very cool. Very cool. Uh, all right. So i want to thank you again for coming on quickly again, since just since august. That was very gracious of you. You do cool reports. So so i’m happy to give voice to them. But now i’ve lost interest in the topic. So it’s all good. So we get fifty, fifty minutes of your attention and that’s it. Yeah, i get that there’s a lot going on. It’s a busy place? Absolutely. Well, i look forward to the next. The next time i help with something that is of interest to you for, you know, a half hour and hour that’s, right? Don’t about it trying to move on and we’ve got another next-gen alright, do not assume it’ll be an hour next time. Thank you for well done. No, thank you very much. Peter. Thankyou. Thankyou, tony. All right. My pleasure. Next week, next week? I don’t know. I can’t say, but, you know i won’t let you down. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuant, they have a year end accelerator pursuant dot com slash year and accelerator for your year end fund-raising and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling, dot com, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is alive producer here with me, gavin. Dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and our music is by scott stein. Thank you for that, scotty, beam me with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Kayman what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth gordon this’s, the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 5, 2016: Multichannel Fundraising Survey & Smart Email Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Peter Panepento: Multichannel Fundraising Survey

Which channels are earning nonprofits the best returns on their fundraising dollars and where will investment expand in 2017? Consultant Peter Panepento authored The Chronicle of Philanthropy’s report, “Fundraising In A Multichannel World.”

 

 

Tiffany Neill & Ann Crowley: Smart Email Marketing

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It’s one of the successful channels and it takes more than good copy. Our panel from the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference takes on the full process of a successful email campaign. They are Tiffany Neill, partner at Lautman Maska Neill & Company, and Ann Crowley, vice president of membership and online strategy for Human Rights Campaign.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have a listener of the week pulawski joshy. She messaged me that non-profit radio was one of her first shows when she started working in the sector and she loves my solitude video more about that in tony’s, take two so pulawski thank you, olivia joshy, thank you for being with us and congratulations on being our listener of the week. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I get hit with a bad case of mathos thomas iesus if i merely smelled the fishy idea that you missed today’s show multi-channel fund-raising survey, which channels are earning non-profits the best returns on their fund-raising dollars and where we’ll investment expand in twenty seventeen. Consultant peter panepento authored the chronicle of philanthropy is report fund-raising in a multi channel world and smart email marketing it’s one of the successful channels and it takes more than good copy. Our panel from the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference takes on the full process of a successful email campaign. They are tiffany neil, partner at lautman, maska, neil and company, and and crowley, vice president of membership in online strategy for human rights campaign between the guests on tony’s take two solitude and major announcements that i should’ve made last week. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling not your seventh grade spelling bees for charities, we be spelling dot com glad to welcome back peter panepento he’s, a freelance writer and principle for panepento strategies, a communications consultancy working with non-profits foundations and companies that serve the sector. He’s, a former managing former assistant managing editor with the chronicle of philanthropy, you’ll find him at panepento dot com and at p panepento peter panepento welcome back. Great to talk to you, tony. And glad teo. Glad to be back on the show. A pleasure. Pleasure. I love your name. Because it’s so musical and a literate ivo i just love it. Peter panepento i like saying very, very fortunate with monica. I didn’t like it growing up, but i love it. Oh, yeah. Now the obliteration. Of course. I love liberations. But you know it’s, just it’s. Very musical. I love it. And ah, little italian pun, eh? Bread pento is repent. So did you know you have? Surely i’m sure that you’ve surely you’ve translated your name before having you. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So repentant bread. I don’t know. Have you sinned? And you’re baking bread in independence or what? I don’t know what that means. But i think that for another podcast completely, i think so. You don’t talk about well, okay, then. That was in that. In that case, we talk about this for twenty minutes, then on multi-channel fund-raising gets about three. Okay. Um, you know, i love move your name. Okay. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. You know, i mean, it’s always great when we get martignetti together. It’s a great combination of names that’s true and don’t i love the way you pronounce martignetti thank you. Thank you. Um, so, multi-channel fund-raising this, uh, this report based on a survey tell us about this. Yeah. So i started working with the chronicle late last year to take a real close. Look at how non-profits and specifically fund-raising departments are making, uh, making sense and investing in the explosion and the number of channels that they have at their disposal for fund-raising aziz. You know, and i’m sure a lot of listeners know we’ve we’ve really seen ah, really expansion of a number of options that fund-raising shops have to talk, teo acquire and solicit donors, you know, from everything from email, social media, online’s mobile. I’m all of these new channels are giving folks a lot of options, and there were also rendering a lot of other channels are absolute, so we wait really set out to try tio talked to non-profits and survey them and find out how they’re shifting their reese is and which which of these channels are more most successful to them? And what we did was we ended up working with a survey firm, campbell rinker, out of california, and we got responses from nearly five hundred non-profits of all sizes. Hoo hoo provided some really interesting insights on how these spring and what they might be in the fundraisers. Did you do cement? Irv uses part of this too? Yes, once we got the results back, i i reached out and spoke teo quite a few fundraisers across the country, from both local small organizations to some really big national charities to okay, cool now, um the headline is that the the old school one toe, one solicitation, my voice just cracked like i’m fourteen again hyre is ruling in in terms of effectiveness, yes, and i would imagine it doesn’t surprise a lot of folks to know that even with all of these different channels that we have that the most effective and the most popular form of fund-raising still is the one on one half, and when we we spoke to fundraisers about you know which channels they used the most and which ones were most effective, we found that personal solicitations were not only the most still the most popular and more than nine out of ten charity say that personal solicitations are are a part of their fund-raising mix now, but that also that they are still the most effective in terms of r a y and in fact, seven out of ten organizations in the survey said they’re becoming more effective than in the past. So with all of these different channels that we have to communicate with each other now, and maybe even because of that, all of these channels exists. Um, one on one the you know, the art. Of a person asking another person directly that they, you know, presumably built a relationship with remains the most effective form of fund-raising now, this does this include online one toe, one like i’m we’re doing a, you know, a peer-to-peer campaign does that does that include this? Or is this familiar? Peer-to-peer separately and okay here was actually did very well as well. In fact, half of the organizations in the survey said that peer-to-peer fund-raising is becoming a more effective form of fund-raising for them than it has been in the past, you know, it it doesn’t quite have the same level of popularity that personal solicitations do, but you know, those peer-to-peer campaigns and and, you know, the act of having, you know, one donor askanase other donor for for support for their favorite charity is is has been and is continuing to be very effective, okay? All right, i got you. All right. So the so the personal solicitation we’re talking about is the old school calling on the phone or meeting and and making an ask right that we’re talking about personal, so okay, okay, alright. Cool. That’s the headline, but there’s a lot more. To cover s o, peter and i were gonna go out for a break. When we come back, we’ll cover all the rest of this multi-channel fund-raising survey. Stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love right this minute, and there are a lot from texas, so i wanted very much thank j c and joan, the hosts of the previous show. Twenty first century entrepreneur forgiving non-profit radio, a shout out that was very gracious of them and it looks like a lot of their texas listeners hung in there. Houston, austin, sugarland live listener loved to you, let’s. Bring it right here to new york, new york, new york, bronx, new york, queens, new york live listener love to all five boroughs, even though staten island and and who’s, who we missing staten island in brooklyn, are not not with us this minute. They certainly have been in the past. So extend the live love even to the to borrow is not represented and focus on the three that are bronx, manhattan and queens gillette newjersey live listener loved to new jersey that’s ah that’s fairly new i think charlotte, north carolina love north carolina live listen loved head they headed there and lincoln tonight oh, lincoln’s in north carolina also. Thank you. Cool love. North carolina, you know, i’m on emerald isle ah, three weeks out of each month, let’s, go let’s, go abroad. Mexico, mexico, monterrey, mexico live listener loved to you. That would be a good afternoon. So we would say, argast artis, when a star dies precisely romania, iran, cambodia live. Listen, her love to you, love, ah, cambodia, don’t think we’ve seen you before in southeast of asia. Welcome on biron and romania. Also korea, you know, always so, so gracious, south korea, always with us on your haserot comes a ham nida and china always always at least one from japan, although i mean china, although we’ve got multiple today, ni hao and multiple from japan as well, so grateful for that live listen love to japan, konnichi wa. Peter panepento we’re going to get to the rest, i mean, don’t forget the affiliate affections and podcast pleasantries, of course, but peter panepento is waiting patiently, their hearing, breathing heavily science coming durney live listeners does this clown has give it a rest already in romania, they know you were a man of so many languages well, so many listeners, yes, only a few languages, but but there’s, this this show cut across states, counties, continents, we’re everywhere. All right, um, okay, anything else you want to say about the personal solicitation being the most way we covered that you think, well, i think i think one one point i thought of during the break there was that, you know, as i spoke to some fundraisers about this, i think one of the takeaways on this is just the fact that with people being so tied to their, you know, mobile devices and so connected online that they actually really appreciate the personal connection mohr when they can get it, and that is actually, you know, working in the favor of organizations who are investing in, uh, more on the ground face-to-face fund-raising there, you know, donors really appreciate that x for personal touch probably now more than ever before, and that applies also to millennials. I’m finding that, um, the misconception there is a misconception that millennials don’t want to meet anybody, they just want to do all their giving and shopping online and, you know, they love events they love coming out now, i’m not sure about the personal solicitation meeting, i’m not i’m not going quite that far, but in terms of gathering’s face-to-face meetings, events, you know, as long as the thing is fun, they love getting out absolutely and a big thing for millennials to is authenticity and there’s nothing more authentic than you know, shaking somebody’s, hand and looking him in the eye and talking teo and that’s that’s a really i value that the millennial generation is bringing to the table on dh articulating quite a bed. And i think as that generation matures and they actually become more likely to be ableto give it higher levels, i think those personal solicitations air going toe going to continue to be really important for those dahna relationships i get so many invitations for just usually une male coffee or lunch coffee line you know from people from millennials twenty thirties on, and i’m happy to do it, you know? I mean, if they want to sit with fifty four year old that’s their life, you know? So what am i going? No, but there’s a misconception that we need to beat that down. And the last thing about personal solicitation, i see you have this outstanding graphic about future investment. And ninety nine percent of charities that answered are goingto either spend the same or invest more in personal solicitations next year. That’s absolutely right. And, you know, that is really on an important stand, i think. It’s it’s, um, almost, you know, almost surprising just how overwhelming that is and help those two thirds of them are actually planning to increase their investment. And in personal solicitations, nominally, they’re investing in that they’re going to be increasing their investment in it, which is which is really powerful. Yeah. Agree. All right. Excellent. Um, direct mail doing very well. Yes. Direct mail. One of the really interesting things that came out of this survey. Wass the shift in attitude toward direct mail. I remember. And we had some discussions about this. A few. Years ago to tonia, i remember that, you know, direct mail is is, you know, in danger getting phased out of some organization. Were you really wondering whether or not they should just kill the of the the direct mail letter in investing all digital? And what we’re finding is that direct mail is not only remaining the third most popular channels for multi for multi-channel investment, but that it’s also ah channel, in which organizations are starting to step up their investment again after years of scaling back in it. Um, we found that almost a third of organizations that they’re planning to invest more resource is and direct mail over the next year by-laws than they have in the previous year and and that’s actually at a faster rate than things like email in social media in terms of increased investment over the next year. Yeah, you have a quote in the in the study that its still a world where people were thinking print first and digital second in planning campaigns. Yeah, i mean, even with all of the increased investment that we found in digital channels, latto you know, direct mail remains really, really popular and builders still respond to what a particularly the more mature donors, too, you know, are used to giving that way and remain a very important audience for non-profits so important to recognize our our top two channels, our traditional what might have been called dinosaurs, you know, years ago as social media emerged, but they’re not dinosaurs, they’re not. If they’re dinosaurs are not extinct yet because they’re talking about we’re talking about face-to-face and direct mail? Absolutely. And and and not only are they not going extinct, they’re they’re making a bit of a comeback. So what does that make them? Uh, i don’t know what we have. Ah, was i mean, i know that maybe they were the share of ah share. Tio that’s. Very good. I just picked up one of her dvds a couple months ago with this she’s got his flamboyant pink outfit and the cover the dvd is, is it called a hologram? Or you you turn it, you know, you you turn in the light and you get different images of her. I think i picked up for a light. Well, sorry share. I picked it up for like, a book, but i had to i had to just have it for the cover. I loved it. I loved. Um okay, so maybe the share. Yeah. Um all right, so don’t abandon traditional methods. Ok? So let’s move into the more current and social media also strong also strong. Not always this strong, but organizations are really continuing. Teo double down on their investment in social media. Um, we sell that sixty percent of organizations over the last two years have put more resources into social media, and they’re reporting that they’re planning to continue to to to invest more in it. More than half of the groups in the survey said they plan to invest maurin social media over the next year. And this really comes despite the fact that for a lot of organizations, they’re they’re having a hard time really articulating what the return on that investment is. Yes. So they’re not necessarily seeing direct dollars coming in the door through social media. But they are still thing enough value and where they want to continue to invest more in it as a as a donor acquisition tool and dahna communication stole. I see ninety seven percent are going to spend the same or mohr you said, as you said, over half spending mohr and, like forty four percent spending the same why why is it still getting increased investment? Um and so much attention so much the share of resources if we are having so much trouble identifying r a y well, it’s interesting, i spoke to a number of organizations, including some really sophisticated groups like make a wish and and the less association who say that even if they can’t put a direct dollar figure on what’s coming in, they’re they’re noting that social media is a great channel of bringing new people on their websites and getting them to sign up for e mails and other things like that. So that’s one thing and other is that it’s becoming increasingly necessary for organizations, particularly on facebook, to get noticed, you actually have to invest in promoting their posts and, you know, actually, you know e-giving facebook and lincoln and twitter um essentially at you no at investment, tio have their post get noticed by doing that, not only are they getting more clicks and like, they’re also getting some better, some better metrics back from those platforms, in terms of how people are engaging with their posts to sow some of that, i think is out of necessity, you know, you can’t keep the same level of investment and get the same results on facebook if your charity anymore. So, you know, some groups are putting ad money against it, where in the past they weren’t doing that right? I hear a lot of frustration about facebook because the organic reaches so small now and so much smaller than it used to be, and and you do have to put ad money against it if if you want to keep that reach high. Yeah, it’s purely i hear a lot of frustration, okay? And another part of your message is that there are other ways of measuring success besides strict return on investment. So if you’re getting more people signing up your email list, if that’s an action that you’re asking for, you’re seeing more unique visitors to your sight may be to the donation page on your site, even if they’re not translating to donations there are there are other methods of measuring return on social media other than strict dollars absolutely, and that’s i think the really interesting point that and and way of expressing it, tony, is that, um, you know, it may not lead to a direct donation, but those those folks that you’re engaging with on social networks are, you know, that that might be their first weigh in the organisation for them to be communicating with you in other ways, and you may actually be getting success through some of the other fund-raising channels as a result of you making that initial contact with a potential donor on a social network. You have you have a graphic in the survey that that covers the different methods of measuring success besides the ones we’ve talked about growth over previous efforts, long term donorsearch al you net yield per donor. So those are some other method, good, right? Right? And, you know, in on top of things, just like revenue raised and donors acquired, which are, um, kind of the obvious wants some of these other ones are metrics that organizations are starting to use mohr regularly to try tio to figure out how these different channels are performing and how they can make better decisions about where to invest later, yeah. You know, it’s, just yeah, you have to be able to say more than, you know, you just got to be there, but i mean, intuitively you do because there are just so many billions of people on facebook on four billion or five billion or something twitter, i think is over a billion users, um, you gotta be able to say more than that, it’s just it’s a lot of people, and so i like that the survey got moves like seven different six different methods of measuring return, not just yet. I think that, you know, what we’re starting to see is that organizations are becoming more sophisticated and how they’re measuring how they’re measuring these different things, and they’re putting mohr effort into actually trying tio better understand, you know, dahna behavior and their own in their own efforts at acquiring and, you know, building relationships with donors, how would you characterize non-profits as a group, we’re generalizing in terms of technology, adoption, do you feel like they’re slow to adopt? They wait for the corporate side to do it? Or do you feel like they jump in a little quicker, but not fully understanding and maybe that’s ah, maybe that’s to their detriment. That’s an interesting question, and i think, you know, if if you when you asked that question five or ten years ago, i think the consensus in the non-profit community was that, you know, that we were slow to adopt and that we were really reticent to to invest in new things and trying new things with technology, i think that’s starting to shift, i don’t necessarily think that we’re, you know, as a zone industry, we’re going to be rivaling silicon valley in front of of our willingness. Tio tio, jump in feet first, things that we don’t really know online, but, you know, there’s been enough success out there, and there have been enough for thinking organizations that have in front runners on some of these technologies that that it’s, you know, that the case can be more easily made toe boards and too, and the top leadership in organizations that it’s worth experimenting a little bit with new things and trying them out, but seeing where they go and you know, the digital capacity is still probably not where it needs to be with a lot of organizations but it’s a lot deeper now than it was even a few years ago. Andi, you only have to look at things like the growth of of interest in the non-profit technology conference every year and just the amount of social media and online activity that’s happening across the sector now. Let’s, talk about mobile, you call mobile a conundrum. Yes, um, and this was an area where a number of groups actually dove in and tried to invest in mobile and text to give early on and found out that they weren’t really getting the results they wanted to. So they’re starting to scale back a little bit in in their investment and mobile. Now. So, you know, of the groups that are actually using mobile, only forty percent say that their efforts were more effective in the past year than they were yeah, in the past year than they were the previous year they’re started there’s a really, um, there’s a real struggle out there for organizations to really figure out how to best use mobile other than using it as a you know, kind of, i know of ah, you know, a modified way of looking at their websites. There, there aren’t a whole lot of really successful mobile e-giving campaigns that that organizations air finding to be useful, important to point out that only thirteen percent of the respondents are actually using mobile and of those of those platform, you know, you know, in talking to organizations for the reporting on this, we’re finding that groups are finding some pretty creative ways to use mobile, even if they’re not using it as a standalone channel. Um, i spoke tio, the top fundraiser at the quietness institute in rochester, new york, which is a which is a private high school there, and they have actually done away with their traditional phone, a phones where a woman i would gather and do a night of calling teo their classmates and i have kind of replaced it with almost like a texting and facebook base kind of outreach for using the same idea everybody gets together with their mobile phones that starts texting classmates that they knew and hitting those short donations or or messaging them through facebook on their mobile phones. Hill yes, she didn’t count that as mobile fund-raising but it’s still using mobile devices for for, you know in-kind of using the unique powers of mobile devices fund-raising and hybrid ing that with the peer-to-peer za peer-to-peer ask itjust happened, happens by text exactly exactly so in some cases, we’re seeing these channels, you know, maybe falling in one bucket, but but they actually utilize technology that might be included in another bucket of in terms of how they’re measured. Peter, we have just a little less than a minute left, and i want to wrap up with the management of all these multi-channel methods is now multi department that’s, right? That’s one of the other interesting storylines coming from the surveys we asked, you know which department is in charge of all of these different all of these different channels? And in which cases is that more than one? And you know, by and large, you know, the development shop is still very engaged with with all of these different channels, but, you know, depending on the channel, usually between a quarter to assist of them are being managed by multiple departments means that there’s some, you know, they’re both being held accountable for the results of of those campaigns and it’s becoming a much more collaborative. Environment now where the development of the development department really needs to be working a lot more closely with you, with communications, with marketing, with technology to make sure they’re being success. Peter panepento follow this guy on twitter for pizza because you’re gonna learn a lot at at p panepento and he’s at panepento. Dot com peter, thank you so much. Thank you. 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Here is my interview on smart email marketing, a very important channel from the non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference at the convention center in san jose, california second session of the of the conference and i’m with tiffany, neil, and and crowley tiffany city closest to me is a partner at lautman, maska, neil and company and and crowley is vice president of membership and online strategy for human rights campaign. Ladies welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Your session topic is what you mean. There’s more to email, more to mail than just writing copy for a fund-raising email so we’re gonna go way beyond just good copy out let’s see, tiffany, what you believe is the dahna shortcoming that a lot of non-profit or shortcomings latto non-profits have around email marketing. I think a lot of organizations spent a lot of time thinking about that first message that people are going to receive, and they don’t take a lot of time thinking about the total experience that that person is going to have once they choose to engage with that email so they don’t think about it in terms of the supporter, the donor who’s receiving that message, they just say, i am sending this wonderful email and they will just do exactly what i want there’s a whole process, there’s a whole process begins within gay exactly through your well written email. Exactly talk a little about subject line, etcetera, but yeah, we want the whole lot the whole process. Exactly. I mean, i can ignore every email in my inbox if i want to that’s my prerogative, and i think a lot of times non-profits just assumed because human rights campaign, which is a wonderful organization, is sending a message that everyone’s going to open it and respond. And did you feel that you needed some help around your email channel? I think we’ve been very fortunate in our ability, tio send out e mails and get people to respond, but that’s, mostly because our issue has really been on the front lines of of the, you know, what’s happening in the last few years, but i do believe it is getting harder to get folks to open our emails and engage once we’ve gotten past marriage equality, the response rates were starting to see a slight decline, okay? And you do have i mean, it seems like human rights campaign would have headlines nearly every day, if not way have refugee crises around the world, and i’m just scratching the surface you work there, but now there’s a lot to talk about. Yes. Although hrc only works on lgbt issues in the u s o okay, all right, so then refugee crisis worldwide is appropriately okay, very good. Still all right? So after marriage equality, okay, so then you didn’t have so many headlines drop correct? Yeah, just got a little bit more of a challenge, although right now we’re experienced experiencing a lot of states, trying to revoke a lot of the rights that have been voted in so it’s, still very pertinent and happening and that’s, our job is to get people toe, stay with us and engage in the same level that they had been. Okay, let’s, stay with you. And i’m sure we first approach are thinking about une mail campaign that were you want? Yeah, i mean, i think it depends, is it is it fund-raising or is it sit advocacy? And if it’s advocacy is that because something is currently going on right now that you need to engage your list in? And if the answer to the advocacy question is yes, then we always ask ourselves, what is the theory of change if we send out this e mail and we ask arlis to do something? What is going to come out of their action? So for instance, we are in the middle of trying to get congress, in particular the judiciary committee, to hold a hearing for the vacancy of the supreme court, and we’ve been asking our list too directly email mitch mcconnell and hold a hearing so there’s a clear theory of change there. So if it’s fund-raising and you guys, you know, organizations feel like they need to send out e mails to raise money is which we all do then really think about what the messages and his tiffany alluded to earlier, not only what the message is initially, but what the visuals are, what comes after they send in money? Is there a proper thank you, there’s? Just various steps to the process. Okay, again, a long process, but sounds like starting with what is your goal exactly? Call ultimately there’s some call to action that’s, right? Is it? Fund-raising isn’t volunteering write a letter. Writing is calling. Raise it. Signing a petition? Yeah. Calling the governor. Yeah, that that’s exactly right. I mean, we really stop and think about every situation and if something is needed and we feel like we can make a difference in particular in a state, for instance, then then we’re going to do it. Okay, okay. All right. So, tiffany, after we’ve got our goal set, where do we go? Where we go from there? Well, i think where i mean, really where it starts from us. Who is that message going to be from? And i think that that sender is something that, especially with hrc, we spend a lot of time thinking about in testing different senders to make sure that when someone’s looking at a bunch of emails in their inbox, they want to open this it’s it’s from somebody that they feel has something to tell them that they need to respond to sew that it’s that’s the first part is to figure out who’s this message going to be from okay, who it’s from and i guess maybe this is subsumed in what you were saying and but who’s it going to? Yeah, we’re subset of our constituency is going to get get this. All right? We’ve got we’ve got our center. We’ve we’ve tested and testing of course, important throughout this process. How does that work if you’re trying to listeners tryingto inaugurate a campaign. How do you test them and kick off at the same time? Well, it’s, i mean, these work together it’s great with a sender. Because we can send ten percent of the message out and send half of that ten percent one centre and half of that ten percent another center in whichever sender gets more opens. Then we send that out to the rest of the constituencies. So those kind of things we contest really in real time so that we know we can get the immediate response subject line forward, subject lying falls in that for the preview text. The thing that people see in their inbox before they actually opened the message. Those first few words, all of those things we test on the outbound message, especially with things that are time sensitive. We want to get those test results back quickly so that we can implement it. And if people need to act quickly, we get we get to them right away. We spent a minute on something that’s. A little bit of a peeve. Which is seeing in that preview to view this message better, right? If it’s not rendering right in your mobile version. Click here. Right? Is that a terrible waste of landscape? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I know what it’s called. What? The preview pain. Okay, and actually we in our presentation today, we actually touch on that because i don’t think it’s one of those things that organizations are moving so quickly, maybe they haven’t thought about that the experience, but for us, hrc our list is younger than a lot of other organizations and therefore there’s ah hyre usage of their mobile when they’re reading our emails. So we do everything mobile optimized, figuring that our folks are reading it on the phone. They’re moving quickly. We’re going to say it in the preview text what we want them to do or what the issue is, and at that point, they’re going to decide to open it and go take the next step or not, when you have your session, would you please tell the audience that this ticks me off? Well known, everyone will say, tony is very annoyed by that. Come back with one thirty four and render your your support for a proper preview checks but it’s one of the things that hrc does well is there’s an army of testers, and every tester has a different mobile device. So what may work on apple may not work on android, so, tony, if you have a different phone, yours may break up in someone else’s won’t. So we do all of that testing before the message ever goes out to consider, you know, even at work, someone was workout of outlook and some of us work out of google and things were under differently and while maybe annoying, i’m always the outlook girl, so i’m always like, it looks funny on that look and, you know, so for the seven other outlook, users were going toe we’re going to see it, right? Okay. All right. What? What else? So let’s, stay with this a couple seconds. What else can we easily test? Got sender subject line preview text? What else? Simple detect. The other thing that we test is in the call to action the words that appear on the button. We’re asking people to do something and really wants to test. Click here. We’re calling it the nineteen nineties tests, but we’ve found that saying, tony, you know, act now versus just act now versus, you know, change, change this do their job. And then i see more organizations using chip in exact and contribute exactly, and those air easy things, the test and you can test it on small number and then see how many people take the action that you intended them to and then roll that out said earlier, we’re testing to maybe just ten percent of the way debate test quantities frequently, but yes, i mean, in general it’s, about ten percent of the total, okay, seems like a good relationship. You’re going back and forth? Yeah, frequently on. Okay. Absolutely. Yes. Next to each other. It’s civil. Yeah. No, no, no. Tiffany and her team at law men are terrific. And we really view them as extensions of the human rights campaign staff well and to the point about subject lines and is frequently a sender of the hrc emails. And one saturday, there was an e mail from an and it was an official hrc email. But the subject line was i know it’s saturday, but and we all open it very quickly because we assumed it was work related and something? Yeah, it worked. It worked. It really was an accident. You know, it was everyone just forgot that that was going out that day at ten a m on saturday and that that was the subject line. All right, the best stuff comes from improvisation, it’s straight, solid improvisation. All right, so we’ve done some simple testing and what’s our next what’s our next step in this campaign? Well, i’m a big believer in the visuals, so if you can have a picture in the call out box, i’m also big believer, frankly, in the call out box, i feel like the call out box is the next step. After the preview text, you get somebody to open it because the preview texas either intriguing enough or important enough, it feels to me that most people then go to the call out box, and so if you’re looking at the email, the call out box can be in the center for us, it’s often to the right and it’s literally a boxed section and it’s it’s in my mind. It’s the headline it’s the action in a nutshell we want you to do x because of why and it’s it’s a shortened version if you want to read more there’s the whole email text that you can read and learn more about what the issue is. But the call out box is going to tell you what we want you to do. Why? And it’s gonna have ah, click it’s going to have a button to or link to click and immediately do the action or send in the money. So this is for somebody who’s, maybe just previewing. They read this cold outbox, but ultimately it’s the same action as if you got to the middle of the full tech that’s a bottom of a check that’s, right. Same action. And you sew for us too. We have a link or button often throughout the email throughout the call out box. I mean, we really make it easy for people to immediately we take action versus going through the entire thing. Do we have statistics on how popular the call out boxes versus going by showing further into the text? We would be able to know the amount of klicks from the call outbox versus the other clicks. Yeah, we could measure it. I don’t think we have. Just you found the flaw in the progress. You’ve done some consulting work this morning that we shouldn’t tell that it is a new toast way. Not like that. We’ll put that on the testing list meeting to the session. Exactly. Your audience would not have heard. You know, if you had not been here before. Yeah, before this, before the session. All right. No charge. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Through with no it’s. True it’s. Good point, actually. Very gratifying. Doesn’t happen often. Melkis. Okay, let’s. See, uh, all right. So we get past our email were also obviously testing different body of the text right now that this is more that’s. More elaborate. Yeah. It’s. More elaborate. And we it’s funny. We’ve tested some copy things, but often what will test is copy heavy versus image heavy things that are are more substantial. That are gonna move the needle a bit more. We try not teo. I mean, there’s tests that are interesting. And then there’s tests that we want to do that are really trying to get people tio to move the issues forward. And so we haven’t tested a lot within the copy itself. Unless it’s specifically the call to action that’s interesting now, because this is what i think people focus on the boat they dio so their focus is misplaced. It’s okay to say, well, i want i want people to approve we want people to improve, i’ll just speak for us. I mean, for hrc, i don’t think that is where our focus should be, which is why it’s not there for other organizations. It may be different, and we have tested for other organizations that may have a cause or a mission where they’re trying to figure out their messaging and in that case, figuring out how they want to state their case for support that’s a critically important tests to do and then something that should probably be done over several email messages where you have control groups getting a similar theme, or if you have a mission that has several different components. You spoke earlier about international work trying to figure out what part of the world people care about that’s, something that is worth text testing heavily with hrc there’s really don’t appreciate you bring up my one thing i said wrong well, see and overly latto that, with my brilliant way, gave you the brilliant oil pockets. No, no, you gotta remind people that i begin. What it does not get the i was right hat. So yeah, but that i mean, for some groups that’s, critically important for hrc that’s. We have so many other things past, so, yeah, okay, yeah, i would say that’s. True, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio i d’oh, i’m adam bron, founder of pencils of promise. So now let’s move next stages. We’ve we’ve refined our email as best we can. Nextstep is in a landing page. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to speak to what retested test every landing pages. You know, it’s interesting. I mean there’s, different landing pages. So for hrc, if it’s asking for a donation, they’re landing on a donation page and we spend a lot a lot a lot, a lot of time and energy and testing and thinking through exactly what they’re going to see when they get to that landing page. One of the air, the donation page. Because one of the things that hrc does very effectively is trying to get people to make monthly gifts. So we try to look at the donor experience of saying what’s going to encourage me to sign oppa’s a monthly donor. So we test what the text is. We test what numbers, aaron, the different donation options. We test it and there’s a brand new donation page for hrc. So that whole process, if it’s an action, then it’s a landing page where you’re asking people to take that action, and in the that case, we just try to go for clarity, making sure that it’s very clear what you’re being has to dio and as an said, making sure that theory of changes prominent so that people understand when they take that action there, having a positive impact on the issues they care about landing yeah, i mean, listen, first off, it’s tough to get people to open your e mails that’s number one so now you’ve gotten them to open it. You’ve gotten them to read it, you’ve gotten him to click to the landing page or to the action page or to the asian page, you have them so you don’t want to lose him at that point, so it in our minds, if they’ve gotten through to that point and let’s, say, it’s a fund-raising email make it as simple and as quick as possible to just have them, you know, hit the button and charge the credit card don’t spend a lot of times reiterating everything you’ve just said in the email and if it’s an action page, same kind. Of thing clear concise we’ve laid out the case for you. This petition is going to go to the governor for x, y and z reason click here so, you know, if you already got him where you want him, you’ve gotten them to take out the wall don’t oversell it basically, yeah, well, i make it consistent with the experience. I think one place where some organizations fall down is they’ll have that go to just a generic landing page or a generic donation page that doesn’t in any way reflect the experience they were having, so it won’t have i mean, we worked to make sure that the headlines are the same as in the emails they received in that sort of thing. So that’s, one of the reasons that we put the session together is because we were looking at the industry of things that people could be doing better than hrc does really well and go from there, i feel so strongly about consistent, consistent conversation with the reader that if we offer, say, a premium in the email for certain amount let’s say it’s, thirty five dollars and then they land on the contribution page. And it doesn’t mention it again, or we don’t start the thirty five dollars, unlike guys, we’ve just said this is going to cost thirty five dollars, then they land on the donation page, and we don’t make that reference again. So for me, it really is about the user having authentic conversation with your reader with your list and having a consistent, authentic conversation reassuring, yeah, i read this on the last page, but now it doesn’t say it anymore. Exactly five dollars like today and up in the wrong painting. Am i going to get what i wanted? It’s it’s, very it’s really important. Okay, okay, consistency, conversation. Um, after landing page, we have ah share page or some kind of post post post action post action and that’s, especially one of the other opportunities that hrc takes advantage of is if if the main action is to get people to sign a petition or call their congress person or something like that, there’s always a follow-up action where they’re given the opportunity to give because, as an said, if you’ve captured someone so deeply around this issue that they took the time to read the email to click it to fill out the petition they are most likely to want to embrace you even more and make a gift so that’s a really opportunity to encourage people to give that a lot of organizations miss out on and if it’s a donation, once people have donated, we want them to feel good about it. So we give him the chance to share the issue or to sign a petition or take take another step so that the experience continues. You always say, thank you, obviously, andi. So if this is tiffany said if they’ve taken an action, you know, get an email that said, okay, great, your actions been sent to the governor or whatever it is now, would you like to do more? You know, here’s an opportunity to give a donation. It’s not heavy handed, it’s just they’re given the opportunity many people don’t, but we’re often surprised at the amount of money that comes in from a post action shopped donation page. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pleased, very pleased. Yeah, and it doesn’t cost anything extra to add that step. Really? So so i never i never thought they were that successful. I guess i’m not obviously, don’t go by me. Yeah, and it depends on the issue. I mean, for some people, certain issues, they’re goingto be more important in the argon and not only take the action, but then donate for others. They’re just they’re comfortable with just taking the action, but but always give them the opportunity because you never know. Okay, you you’re spending some time in your session to talk about on order responder? Yeah, what are we talking about? First, i’m gonna keep you out of jargon jail, but i’m the one who said it. I don’t get you let you get me out of jail. Is that message that people automatically get through email once they’ve taken an action or made a contribution? And ah lot of email providers are set up to kind of send those auto respond messages and some organizations. All that auto respond message says is, thank you for taking an action with the human rights campaign. We think through what that says so that it is, as an says, consistent with e action, they just took it follows the experience they just had and a lot of times that will also give people another chance to act they’ll get a chance to do something else when they get that latto responder that that message that they get right away and his and said it always says thank you, yeah, usually so the order responded immediate, this is the immediate follow-up yes, right, right, okay, we didn’t talk about including video mentioned all about images. What about use of video in the email? Are you doing that more often as it isn’t working? Not in not in the email directly because it affects the affects rendering? I believe right now can it hurt delivery box is going to show up what people say on mobile, it doesn’t, because the hrc has found that they have when they actually embed the video within the email, the all of the open rates click through rates that sort of thing fall just because of potential rendering issues on different people’s individual technologies. So what we do instead is yes, so we’ll have an image of a video and with a narrow so it looks like you’re hitting the play button, but it actually takes you two in our case youtube, which is where we’ll and embed the video and that all that way they can see it and it’s a quick transition transact transition from that email to the video. Okay, and then within that video, we way try toe have words so that if people are viewing it without sound, they can still get the essence of what the piece wass eso last year, for example, at the end of the year, hrc had a very successful year. Last year, marriage equality was it was done by the supreme court. There were a lot of good activities, so to give their members the chance to participate, members were encouraged to send in their photos of the year and to make a urine video. So we thought, i don’t know, i thought maybe a couple thousand people. I don’t know how much you thought would do it. I thought maybe two. Three thousand. Yeah, i didn’t. I didn’t expect much, but we got seventeen thousand pictures. I mean, people were so excited to be a part of this. It was really i got phone calls from members saying i sent in my pictures. Could you please include them? I got permission from the photographer to include them. We got an ambassador calling, we got boardmember is calling. I mean, this ended up being so important, it really surprised me. So then when we put that video together, we had words throughout it sort of highlighting what the different groups of photos were, but we really let the photos speak for themselves. But the overall campaign, we had to really think of three because there were so many more pictures than we thought there would be. We created a siri’s of photo albums on facebook and then had other emails wherein post actions or things like that people were encouraged to then go to social media sites see the rest of the pictures because clearly we couldn’t put seventeen thousand pictures on a video or it would just be like a michael bay movie, and you were able to make it very, very inclusive. Yeah, yeah, it was clear to us that to not include i mean, everyone took it so so seriously that we wanted to honor that that feeling for them and include him wherever we could. All right, we’re gonna we’re gonna leave it there. Great. We’re gonna leave it with inclusiveness, okay? Like for human rights campaign? Yes, perfect. Now that twenty martignetti learned what human rights campaign does. I don’t mind it’s. Okay, if i do it different. But that xero durney neil isa, partner lautman, mascot neil and company and crowley, vice president membership in online strategy at human rights campaign again, ladies. Thank you very much. Thank you. Think, stoney. Sharon. Thanks, tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference. Thank you so much for being with us. And thanks to everybody at and ten the non-profit technology network next week, master google adwords and master your decision making. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by we be spelling not your seventh grade spelling bees for charities, we be spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Scotty, how come you weren’t listening today be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

NextGen:Charity Interview With Peter Panepento

Backstage at the NextGen:Charity Conference on November 18th, I was busy interviewing. One of my guests is a guy who spends a lot of time interviewing others, and supervising those who interview others.

Peter Panepento is Assistant Managing Editor of The Chronicle of Philanthropy and he sat down to tell me about the Deficit Reduction Commission’s proposal to replace the charitable deduction with a subsidy to charities. That’ll cause a stir.

Click the video to watch.