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Nonprofit Radio for February 22, 2019: Flash Fundraising & DEI and Governance II

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My Guests:

Matt Scott: Flash Fundraising
Prepare. Launch. Engage. These are the essential elements for rapidly and successfully fundraising when breaking news intersects with your cause. Matt Scott from CauseMic talks us through.




Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi:DEI & Governance II
Gene Takagi and I wrap up last week’s thoughtful convo on diversity, equity and inclusion, with mechanics for your board: by-laws; recruiting; committees; decision making; oversight metrics; and more. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.




Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit Radio Big Non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure your Asef Feliz. Um, if you blew my mind with the idea that you missed today’s show flash fund-raising Prepare, launch, Engage these air the essential elements for rapidly and successfully fund-raising when breaking news intersects with your cause. Matt Scott from Cause Mike talks us through and d I and governance to Jean Takagi and I wrap up last week’s thoughtful conversation on diversity, equity and inclusion with mechanics for your board by-laws recruiting committee’s decision making oversight metrics. He’s our legal contributor and principle of Neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group attorneys take to act blue. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS guiding you Beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four, four nine nine nine Here is Matt Scott with Flash fund-raising Matt Scott is CEO of Cause Mike and an industry leading Non-profit fundraiser. He helped Team Rubicon scale from two hundred fifty thousand dollars in annual revenue in two thousand eleven to thirty million dollars in two thousand seventeen twenty seventeen. He’s led the company to help a diverse range of non-profits raise millions of dollars online, including Movember Volunteers of America and the Humane Society. He’s at Matt B. B. A, and the company is at cause Mike Crew and cause. Mike dot com Matt Scott Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me really appreciate it. Pleasure, Pleasure. We’re gonna talk about flash fund-raising. And so I presume that the first thing Teo need to have in place is preparation so that you know, like what kinds of topics and issues are going to cause you tow burst into this flash Yeah, absolutely. So we kind of defined flash fund-raising as any time bound campaign, meaning it’s not going to be an evergreen campaign they’ve got running all the time. But to your point, Tony, it’s really rooted in in this notion of what kind of big moment they’re related to. The impact of your non-profit has in the world is newsworthy. Right? So how do you leverage or capitalize on those newsworthy moments? They relate to your organisation in order to raise funds and awareness. And Dr supporters Okay, so we really kind of finding is that Yeah. And, you know, if something relates to your mission in the news on and you are silent, you know, then I think you risk becoming irrelevant. Yeah, that’s exactly right. I mean, whether you were somebody like our client u s A for UNHCR working with, you know, refugee communities all around the world, or you’re someone like Mercy Corps who we work with. Who could capitalize on, uh, you know, the hurricane in Puerto Rico or the earthquake. And, Paul, you really gotta look for opportunities to be relevant in the news cycle. It’s an opportunity for you, Really, You know, both get your brand out there, but also to acquire new supporters. How How suddenly do you need to be ableto activate when we’re going to get to the preparation? Were not act activation yet launching yet. But I mean, how how quickly do you need to be ready to go? Yeah. I mean, I think it’s really important that that you’ve got the systems and process and method in place in order to capitalize on a news cycle within those first twelve to twenty four hours. I mean, if you take something like Hurricane Hardy Urmila Maria last year and you look a, you know, just really what does that cycle look like? It’s within the first twenty four to forty eight hours where the news is mace drawn to it. And that’s when you’ve got the greatest opportunity, too. Galvanize your base of supporters as well as engaged new supporters. I would say you need to move quickly within the first twenty four hours on the news cycle. In order, Teo really kind of be relevant. And then so I guess tangential to this because we’re talking about fund-raising. But you also want to have a communications plan in place so that you can activate quickly. Journalists. You want to be in touch with bloggers, other influence leaders influencers that you want to be in touch with when again when you know as you’re saying, something hits the news. So you can you can activate quickly on the communication side. Not, you know, not fund-raising related, but trying to get out to the media. Bloggers fear, etcetera. Exactly. I think of kind of two approaches to the communications plan, and both of them you absolutely had on in the head are all about being prepared. The first one is having a list of media outlets in building a relationship with those media outlets and people there prior to master over some news moment, right? So that they know that you’re a trusted source. You don’t want to use that news moment as a as a chance to reach out to them cold. You really kind of want to build that relationship in advance. Also, you want to think about how do you make it as easy as possible for you to be featured as a subject matter expert in the event of a newsworthy event? How are you going to make. It is easiest possible for them to ask you critical questions or to provide context of how your organization is driving impact to solve whatever problem it is that you’re facing. The second piece of it is really comes down to having a multi-channel communications plan, and this is a lot more in the work, you know, in the control of the non-profit. So that includes everything from, you know, SMS. Mmm. So text messaging, chap pot, email, marketing, social media, paid ad paid search How do you develop like a full multi-channel communications plan that ultimately has a single narrative and across all of those channels, but the actual messages slightly different, unique to those channel requirement. Yeah, excellent. Excellent. And listeners you’ll remember had Peter panepento on, and I think it was December and around his book, which I can remember the name of. But we talked all about communications plan and a public relations and a media strategy. Take back public relations. That’s not quite right having a media strategy. And we did talk about what what Matt is talking about, you know, having in place relationships and a plan in advance. So if you want to hear a flower on on a media strategy, including flash moments, go to tony martignetti dot com and just search Peter panepento and that that show will come up. It was a pressure was last December, or was it was November. Okay, so, Matt, so thanks for that. Well, digression on communications. I put you on the spot because that’s not your not your expertise. But thanks for thanks for weighing. And that was that was valuable. Um, all right, so let’s go back to strictly the fund-raising. And what what technology do you need to have in place in advance? Yeah, that’s a great question. So first and foremost, you need I make sure that you have a sierra. Some of our favorite theorems, their sales force for kind of some other organizations that wanted fund-raising solution. All in one, there’s Sierra something like fund-raising straight AA lot of more established organizations. They’re using products like, uh, like blackbaud, Right. But at the end of the day, you wantto want a place where you can collect dahna information as those donations start to come in. Beyond that, you also need to think about like, the top of funnel. So from acquisition, how are you really keeping track of which acquisition channels are working? So if you put out those paid Searcher paid social ads, how can you ensure that you’re seeing return on investment? You need a way to capture thie email address at the very least of the supporter or some form of communication, like a phone number, so we can text you also, of course, need a way to collect donations. So some of our favorite platforms for that include give lively, which is entirely free for non-profits pretty much disrupting the space right now. Getting integrate seamlessly with sales for you also got stuff like classy or fund-raising, both excellent classrooms and innovative sales lorts. And so you want to have a way to kind of take those donations right? But you also want to have an email service provider in place and, increasingly, more and more our clients. They’re seeing a lot of success around text messages and using SMS and Chapa. So we think it’s really important that you also have, you know, leverage a platform like Twill Leo, which you know is an amazing product that is near free for non-profits on and allows you to send one on one SMS and mmm messages to your constituents. So I think in terms of overall, you need a way to acquire and track your acquisition channels. You need to see our AMAH place deposits that in for me, Agent, you need to make sure that you have a way to process donations. Then you gotta have on the communication side, at the very least, a stronger but no service provider as well as an ability to text message your your constituents. I say those are the fundamental elements. Of course, there’s a lot of other a lot of other things that can go into a great text back, But those were really the fundamental Okay, we’re gonna take our first break. Matt. When we come back, I’m gonna, uh, tease out something that you sort of suggested. You didn’t say it, but I just sort of blackbaud razor’s edge. I wonder if those air getting antiquated even though they’re so huge. I mean that not those that razor’s edge product. So we’re going to die aggressive labbate. So give thought to that You got, like, thirty seconds and then I’m going to be on spot again pursuant their newest free E book, The Art of First Impressions. It’s all about donor-centric track new donors making it You need to make that smashing hit first impression. That’s what this is about. The book. It’s got six Guiding principles of Ineffective acquisition strategy. How to Identify your Unique value. Plus, it’s got some creative tips. You’ll find it at the landing. Paid the listener landing page tony dot m a slash pursuing capital P for please. All right, now, let’s go back. Tio, Matt Scott and Flash Fund-raising. So So, Matt, it was just like an inflection and you’re in your voice. Is blackbaud becoming, ah, dinosaur, even though it’s enormous in the market? Or Or did I misread your tongue? Uh uh, political answering this question now he’s hitting on you at the end of the day. Here’s what I’ll say. We’ve moved dozens of organizations off blackbaud and on they’ll force. We have yet to move anybody from sales first blackbaud. Um, but at its core, this is this is kind of the fundamental difference on, you know, sales forces really disrupted the space and the main different. You’ve got an open source platform where you’re able to use best in class female service. Best in class. Uh, you know, text messaging or best in class fund-raising. And you’re able to integrate all of those things in an open way where blackbaud forces you really to use their products. So when you think about you know it’s really come down the innovation, it seems like everybody else’s innovating. And and I think that it’s really important that non-profits go down the way where they’re going to have the ability to capitalized on major trends in the market, like the ability to monitor what’s going on on social media or the ability to really robotically track. Uh, you know, your ad spending conversion and as far as I can tell it can’t say that I You know, I’m all knowing about Blackbaud by any means. But I will say that, you know, we’ve been very satisfied with sales force and the ability to recommend that in class solutions to our non-profit clients that integrate into a system seamlessly really interesting. I So I’m boiling it down to open source versus proprietary. Ifyou’re on Blackbaud, you’ve got to use their plug ins. You gotta buy there. You gotta buy their add ons exactly. Right. At the end of the day, they weren’t forced to innovate. They were really the only players in the field of battle, you know, five years ago. And that makes a really big difference. The sales force still have first ten licenses for ah non-profit are free. That’s correct, gang. With the non president’s success, pack the first ten licenses training non-profit or free. Um, And then you’ve got to, like, give lively right there. Entirely free non-profits that integrated sales, They’re seamlessly. You’ve got a lot of non-profit discounts for Tulio. Male chimps. You got a lot of options there that just aren’t available. Okay, Okay. Say, Say what? What? What’s the programme again called on Sales Force sales force. What? Oh, non-profit success back. Okay, we’re given unpaid, unpaid shoutout to sales force because all right, so I think they need it. Yeah, right. They should be our biggest. Have four corporate sponsors. They should be the largest stations. Should be owning this. No owning this show. No, I own the show. It’s like a carry away. It’s not Salesforce non-profit radio, but yeah, they OK, I agree. All right, So I heard you. I heard you’re right. I read you. Right. I’m glad. Okay. Um, so we’re still in the preparation stage. You’ve got something called a campaign kit. What? What is this? We’re still in preparation. Yeah. Yeah. So really help our fine set up in advance, right? Like, what is that Multi-channel communications plan Look like? You need to make sure we have clearly defined brand guidelines. So what is your voice? What is your tone with style? Uh, what do you want to get out there? It’s really important. We start going across all these different channels because you want people to know, to be familiar with your brand. You want them, whether it’s the first that they’re hearing about you or their longtime supporters, you don’t want any surprises, right? You want someone to know this is a team Rubicon, This is mercy. This is the Humane Society. I know that because it’s strong. Brand guy won. Second thing you want to do is have a graphic kit teed up. So let’s say that you’re you know, the origin Humane Society. One of the clients. They respond to disasters as well. So if you know that that’s not your primary mission. But it’s something that is a service you provide. So when there’s wild fires, for example, they went down to California and rescued puppies and kittens to what other lies have been displaced. They pre-tax and we set up graphics in advance that had direct needs that showcase the work that they were doing that connected a supporter. The actual impact in the field. You also want to have a list of talking points, right? These are things that anybody on your team can point to, a reference that Khun clearly simply articulate. Exactly the you know what the purpose of your work is. That’s a really key point. And finally you really wantto have kind of the sample emails. Text Pete up. So these air urgent appeal emails are urgent appeals tax that clearly again demonstrates your target audience. The impact that you’re having, the fields and the urgency. It is important the customizes for each and every event. So it’s important that you don’t just think about it. It’s like, Okay, I’m sending out this temple it every time. Uh, but at the same time, there are, you know, there are certain aspects of it that you can pre planned for us. The final piece of, you know, kind of a campaign hit, if you will, is segmentation. We spend a lot of time helping our clients segments, their communications. It’s all about meeting each and every constituents on their preferred platform with their preferred message. There prefer time Dr Conversions to derive from using for the non-profit. So we like to think about donor-centric fund-raising and advocate. And within each of those major profile sites you need to develop a multi-channel communication plan, cleared grand guidelines, great visual, clear messaging on the talking points and lots of appeal. That action. What about making this all or subsets of it available publicly so that you can engage some people who might want to do their own like Peer-to-peer campaign around your your flash campaign, you share these share the stuff publicly. Absolutely. You just hit it on the head, Tony. I mean, you talk about Peer-to-peer fund-raising, right? These are people who are passionate about your cause, but they’re not professional. Fundez. Yeah, right. You have to deliver to them the tools and the messages that will resonate with care with your potential supporters, their friends and family. At the same time, the majority of people who donate to a peer-to-peer fund-raising page are not really in it to support the organization. They’re basically in it to get their friend their family off their back, over off their doors. Kept that at the end of the day, how do you transition somebody from being? I made a donation to Tony, too. I made a donation to U. S. A. For UNHCR. Yeah. Lorts begin to send them through the channels. So that bad because our okay, we’ll spend more time talking about making that transition. Where do you like to share? Where would you like to see clients share these docks for the people who wanted take it to the next level and do their own peer-to-peer fund-raising. Well, my favorite is keep it easy. And I think text messaging is rapidly becoming the way that we distribute fund-raising coaching serious tio clients. Fund-raising techniques like favorite. Okay. First for sharing the tools for people to create their own peer-to-peer campaigns. Oh, yeah. Okay. Where you going? Where’d you like to put the repository of these? The tools the guidelines. You know, the graphics, etcetera of the sample emails that people can use. What? Where do you like to see that stuff put? Yeah, I mean, if you if you’re only gonna host it in one place, having on a site the you own your own website, It is really important. But I actually think it makes a lot more sense to break it off over time and defended out by a tax ID. Now, you know, don’t give it to him all of once, but instead send them little bits of information that they could take action on right away to drag. Okay, so, like so, like, every every twelve hours. You mean in this in this Because this is going well, this is going to be pretty short lived campaign, right? We’re talking about, like, a week or two or something isn’t even that long. Yeah. Yeah, I think two weeks is actually the okay. So how often do you sending out tio thes people who really want to activate the next level do their own peer-to-peer campaigns. How often you sending out new stuff to them by text with? Within the first twenty four hours, You want to send things out like two, three times, and then it tapers off. So then it’s kind of every day for the first week, and then you want you want to kind of spacing out every other day. You can kind of run spring in in three day period. We find that that’s the max that anybody wants to receive multiple communications per day. But that’s where that multi-channel engagement strategy comes into play. Thinking, email, social. A phone call, right? You’re kind of sharing the burning across channels so that they’re interacting with your brandy today on getting kissy stay. But it’s not always delivering the same channel. OK, OK, What about, um, having some influencers like pre positioned that people that you know are going toe? Uh, create that peer-to-peer campaign. Or at least if they’re not going to do a campaign, they’re goingto help you get the message out. But having this in the, you know the prepare a story of proprietary stages, you got ten or twelve key influences, you know, love your mission. You know, if it’s UNHCR, the High Commissioner for Refugees and there’s a refugee crisis, you know they’re going to jump on it, these ten or twelve people? What about having those relationships in place so that they’ll start blogging? They’ll start emailing whatever you know, whatever they do, treating Teo help you build momentum. What about having those relationships in place in advance? Oh, absolutely. That’s the preference. I mean, one of the great examples that comes to mind right off that is Anson Mount, who’s a great celebrity supporter. Team Rubicon, Um, you know, building up that relationship with Anson in advance and then basically empowering him. And so create custom fund-raising Vegas for Anson to be ableto fund-raising for Team Rubicon in the event of a disaster in Texas. So he was, you know, filming a television show for A in Texas, and it was a perfect opportunity for him to reach out his constituents. But all that was set up in advance of the disaster season to be more or less knew that most likely there will be a disaster in Texas, that here they’re setting up that influence relationship, giving him the talking points e-giving in the sample Social media post really empowered into Ray’s about forty eight thousand dollars Teamviewer response to flooding in Houston All right. I’m gonna admit that I’m a pop culture. No, nothing. I don’t know this guy, Anson. Who is that? Uh, it’s amount is, uh well, he’s huge co-branded teamviewer columns of a great celebrity Porter. But even after, um and he was the lead on hell on wheels and he also most recently played in a marvel movie as well on, you know, fair track, maybe. Okay, he’s a great guy. Okay, I’m sure he is, but it’s, uh, you know, I’m not. Yeah. I mean, if you’d said Al Pacino, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have asked you. Who is that? You know, So I got a bunch of clients who were looking for that pompel ball club buddies. Support has been even relating. Yes. Uh, okay. Just generational difference. No problem. Okay. All right, So we got we got everything in preparation now its launch time, and we need to know who’s gonna who’s gonna pull the trigger, right? Yeah, we having a clearly defined who Didn’t your maker go? No, go critical because, like, we already talked about first twenty four hours Really important. So we recommend Ma Bargain was down with too much process. It’s important for you really have, uh, you know, check the balance is in terms of copy, make sure the things that spell correctly that you’re not speaking or offer ends, but that decision to go or no go she’s really lead with a single person. So they’re they’re given the information that says we feel like for all intensive purposes, with traffic, it’s really high, you know, highly spoke about in the media. Let go, or we feel like that. If we were to activate right now, we wouldn’t really necessarily be included in on the conversation. We’re not going to get a lot of media. It could get a lot of in front of a lot of supporters then. Probably not going. Why would you feel the ladder? What would lead you to conclude? To not not activate? Yeah, I mean, well, let’s take you could be popular. That disaster response here. Let’s take hurting. Hold the urn and Maria write one hit after another. You have to begin to really think about Donorsearch a Teague and the fatigue of of society as a whole. So timing is really important. Hyre segment of your communications. Which media outlets he reached out to, you got to take into account how much you’ve already gone through. You know, your supporter lists and how much you’ve already asked them. So that really influenced things. Like a decision. That’s just one data point. Like what’s the frequency of the storm Who was hit how long ago to be asked for support? Um, how did Airbase responded that those are some of the elements. Okay, Okay, so s so if we decide not to go, then the show’s over. So the conversation over. So let’s go the other way. Now, let’s decide that way. Are gonna we’re gonna launch. Um what? What? What’s What’s first thing we need to do, the CEO or whoever the decision maker is, has said yes, she’s approved. Where do we go now? Yes, this is where if you have a fund-raising tool like fund-raising classic, give lively. You got that? Get that fund-raising page set up right away. Home and because you already have, you know, kind of prefect communications plan that we talked about. You begin to activate that. So you get those emails in place, you begin to send out, start with the channels that are really busy. So text messaging doesn’t take long. Social media doesn’t take wrong. And depending on what your brand you know, look, it feels like it’s important not to miss good for great meaning. People want to see what’s going on behind the scenes. So if you’re responding to disasters and example and you’re in the planning phase and you’re really getting ready for a response that you don’t get have powerful visuals of light the people affected by Thorne it’s important to show that behind the scenes wolf because it’s raw, It’s interesting and it’s easy to get out. So I would say, Start with channels that are really easy to just share information with and then work your way towards the channels that are more work, like email, where you’ve got a draft more more. Give me some examples of that behind the scenes early on. I guess that’s like first twelve hours or so content. Like what? Yeah, so examples might include, uh, your team monitoring storm. Or they might include in from, you know, meeting time that you’re preparing or getting your go bags around here. Any equipment you need to get out the door. What’s happening? Place dramatically behind the scenes. In the case of refugees like, you’ve got terms of people working around the clock trying to find out more information from the field so that the field team can make informed decisions. All that kind of content is interesting and engaging, and it can just be shot on a smartphone, right? Just simple. There are updates. Maybe it’s somebody from your field team or your program. He’s literally just shooting a thirty second video that you know is framed. Well, well lit light in your face horizontally shot. Just quick tips on how to make them look better without spending a lot of money. But it’s just someone standing there saying, like, Look, this is These are the actions that were taking right now, and it’s thanks to the generous support of supporters like you, where we’re looking for people who financially contribute were dedicated to solving this crisis. This is what we’re doing Those air, like really, really impactful communications. Yeah, people do like, behind the scenes, absolutely that you’re drawing them into the crisis before as it’s unfolding to you that you’re trying to learn more, you know, you’re keeping them informed. I mean, if you’re going to fund-raising around a crisis or an incident, Um you Ah, yeah. I mean, you want to draw them in and you said something that really struck me. Please, when you when you’re doing quick video, please. Please hold. Hold the phone horizontally, not vertically. Act can’t stand those little frames. You get a little one inch by one inch frames you get when it’s vertical, for God sake. Okay, this is, uh we’re running a little long, so, um, let’s let’s go to engagement. So we’ve already We’ve already launched. We got our You’ve already talked about SMS and M M s and having chatbots replaced. Let’s move to engagement now. Yes, this is really the most the most important part, right. Uh, be your authentic self. So first and foremost, we want to express gratitude in a compelling and interesting, unique way. I highly recommend using a tool called can written. Um, this is one of our favorite tools for clients and integrate seamlessly with sales for us. It allows you to literally send and written cards by a robot, um, to each and every one of your supporters and comic, We actually have, like, a great pricing deal with them. So Chan, this plug there, but you’ve been retired there, But anyway, I think starting with a few card is really important. Is that going to help you stand out? The second thing you want to do is you want to send somebody through a new supporter. Welcome. Serious. And this is different, depending on whether they made a one time gift a recurring gift. But the serious should really be focused on first and foremost, expressing gratitude and immediately shifting toward the impact that they’re having in the field. Yeah, sure. Right. We like to talk about it. OK, that I’m going to give you give you an extra minute. Let’s go toe up. Great. Let’s goto let’s jump to upgrading. You touched on it earlier. You want to move these these one time donors to something more? You got a minute? I’m holding you to it. Yeah, so basically up their strategy is if you’ve got a one time donor-centric heidtke percent most e-giving difficult to do in a minute. But I would say Send them through a multi-channel supporter. Welcome serious. Quantify that impact present to them opportunities upgrade to a mostly get. To be honest, you can come to cosmic dot com on download our free guide on how to build a month e-giving program in ninety days. And I think that’s all I could do in a minute. Okay, that’s all right. Okay, so But it’s important to try to move These donors passed the incident that you were flash fund-raising for. Okay. Sametz got CEO of Cause Mike. You’ll find him at Matt b B a. And the company is at cause Mike Crew and cause mike dot com Where you could go for the resource is Matt just mentioned that Scott. Thank you very, very much. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. We need to take a break. Wittner, CPS. They have a new archive. Webinar for you. It’s accounting update. What has changed that? Wagner knows intimately, and you just need to know the basics off. That’s what they’re going to cover for. You. You don’t want to know the bait. You don’t want to know the intimacy of it. You just need the basics. For instance, new requirements for financial statements. You might not like to know a little about that, all right, and there’s other stuff that they cover in this accounting. Update. Webinar Go to Wagner cps dot com. Click Resource is then webinars to view the archive. Hey, it’s time now for Tony’s take Do I’m back Live ActBlue. Yes, ActBlue. I’m very grateful to them. They are non-profit Radios Sponsor, Premier, sponsor AT and TC Thie twenty nineteen Non-profit Technology conference. It’s March thirteen to fifteen in Portland, Oregon. P D. X. We are in a booth together. Boots five o eight and five ten. I’ll be doing tons of interviews for the show, Of course, that will be using over the ensuing months, and ActBlue will talk. Be talking to folks about the value of small dollar donations. You know them for political fund-raising Grassroots fund-raising three billion dollars worth over three billion dollars worth. Think about them for your non-profit fund-raising getting small dollar donations into the mix. That’s what they’ll be talking about. Um, they have a giveaway they have on site training. Giveaway on site. Did I say on site training giveaway that we’ll be doing at the booth? So come see us. I’ll be doing lots of interviews. Come say hello. If you’re at ntcdinosaur course, come buy boots five o eight five ten. Say hello to me. Metoo folks from ActBlue thank them for sponsoring ActBlue at the conference. Ah, and there’s a little more AA plus. Ah, mention of how hard it is to get good video talent on my video at tony martignetti dot com. And we’ll be talking about this more. Nineteen ninety Si, always a pleasure to welcome Gene Gene, the law machine. He’s our man. He’s the managing attorney of Neo, the Non-profit and exempt Organizations Law group in San Francisco. He edits the enormously popular non-profit law blogged dot com. He’s the American Bar Association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer. He’s at G tak G Ta k. What else can I say about him? The best thing I think I most enjoy saying is Welcome back, Jean. Thanks, Tony. It’s great to be back. Yes, after just last week. Um, you were the twenty sixteen. You know, you realize now that that American Bar Association Outstanding non-profit lawyer thing, that’s three years old. Now it is. So we’re gonna have to get a new tagline for that or something. Are you going to run again? Can you? Can you be nominated again? I think maybe when I retire Tony, hopefully that’s some years away from that. That’s the Lifetime Achievement award. Yeah. You want to stay away from those? That’s that’s a death knell. Lifetime achievement award. You’re coming to a close when you get one of those. So you don’t You don’t want that yet. Okay? I want to thank you again for our very thoughtful the conversation last week. I don’t know. How does thoughtful, sincere conversation on this difficult diversity equity inclusion topic. I listened back to it on di just Thank you. That’s what I want to thank you very much for doing it. And for being a generous and sharing partner with me. Well, thank you for having that discussion with me to Tony that those air difficult discussions toe have, but I think really necessary ones. And it’s great to share that. Share it with the audience. Yeah, absolutely necessary. On DSO now, this week, which we didn’t get the cover. We want to turn some of this discussion into some action points for the board, and you have a lot of ideas around the board’s by-laws. Yeah, I think that’s right. So, you know, once you’ve committed that that, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion our topic of last weekend today are really part of the fabric of your organization’s core Vallon. You’ve got a champion for that, and they see it is organizational values they want on Believin in an equitable a system where you know all people are created equal and should have equal protections of law on equal rights. Unequal access. Once you’ve decided that that really is something that you want to do. And it’s not just about furthering your mission, which, you know, might be, too, um, advanced after school education. But you want to do it an equitable manner so that you’re not just favoring one you know group over other groups. And so once that’s decided, I think a really good sign of embedding those values into the organization is to put it in the organizational policies and the by-laws are really one of the core governing documents of the organization, and they’re really provisions there that can reflect the board’s commitment to diversity, equity and inclusions. Okay, um, and there’s, uh, there’s a lot that the board Khun do. Some of this is difficult. I want to point people to your blood post at non-profit law block dot com. You go into more detail there, and we have time for today about different provisions within the by-laws. But one that struck me is the is the selection of directors, and, well, I guess it’s too at the way you have The Post organized the selection directors in the qualification of directors, you know, again, challenging gets into should there be quotas or not? But, you know, say a little. It’s a little about the that selection and the qualification of directors. That was really apparent. So you know, a lot of people are focused on Well, the boards of non-profit organizations are really no more diverse, and they were twenty years ago. And sadly, that’s you know, with many non-profit leaders saying diversity on our board, this really important but not no riel action taken, you know, a sector over the last twenty years, and boards are still disproportionately dominated by white people and not with a lot of people of color, particularly in leadership positions. And the bigger the organizations are. Those discrepancies get get even worse. White males were talking about white males. Yeah, primarily, although there are a lot of females on especially smaller organization board, but still not not a lot of women of color on those boards. So addressing kind of some of those, you know, the discrepancy between non-profit leaders saying, this is really important, and the lack of action or achievement in advancing diverse boards or board composed of diverse populations is problematic. And so it’s not an easy thing to fix. But one of the things that you may think about is to determine Well, how are you? You know, qualifying board members. Do you have certain qualifications that say, you know, we we need board members toe, have this background with this education, or come from this particular area? Um, is that a good thing or bad thing? You know, sometimes you can say a quota like you mentioned way want, you know, a minimum of thirty percent of our board members. Uh, to be made up of women. So, you know, recently there’ve been some movement. California, I think, being going on one of the states in which they said, if you’re a public company operating here based in California, that you must have a certain percentage of women on your board by certain period Oh, interest line, though. Having a quota for non-profit corporations on board when when they haven’t really moved very much, could be effective. But there is sort of the disadvantage of Well, what if we said, you know, they had to be, uh, no, fifty percent Asian American? Andi, let’s say an organization and serving Asian American communities, we said the board has to be composed of fifty percent Asian Americans. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? And, um, you know, that’s a little bit more tricky to discuss. If we’ve got, uh, you know, uh, population where they’ve not been, where they’ve been marginalized and they haven’t been reflected. Well, fifty percent might be a good thing in terms of we. We’re not going to make them tokens in this organization if it was ah white dominated board, for example. But compare that if we said, Well, at least ten percent of our board must be African Americans, and we’ve got, you know, eight people on our board. So that means one boardmember they’re going to look for to be an African American person. And how are they going to feel if you know the reason they were picked? Because they’re African American. You know, that’s that was the determining criteria that you can’t really do it that way. I think you shouldn’t do it that way. That’s my opinion. So if you’re going to set a quota, you have to make sure that you’re looking at overall what your needs on the board are. So maybe you say, Well, we you know our serving African American population so we don’t have anybody African American on our board. So we lost that perspective of knowing how best to serve these communities. But bringing one member on the board and saying, Well, you represent all African Americans and give us your take on what they need is unfair. Yeah, that’s not only not only unfair but silly, it’s not fair to the person and just unreasonable Jean, I have to take a break. Got it pursuant their newest No, that’s Ah, that’s actually not the break that I need to take. The day break I need to take is tell us, can you use more money? You need a new revenue source. You know, you get the long stream of passive revenue when the cos you re far too Tello’s process their credit card transactions with Tello’s watched the video, then send the potential companies to the video. So it’s at tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s We got to do the live listener love Oh, and there’s a ton of it to holy mackerel. Way far out. Well, whoa! Let’s go abroad. Um Brazil. Beirut, Lebanon. Seoul, South Korea. Bangalore, India. Hanoi, Vietnam. Lima, Peru. Moscow, Russia, Iraq in Baghdad and Yosh Car Ola in Russia Also well live listener Love to all the foreign listeners. That’s remarkable. Live love out to you Here in the States. I’ve got multiple New York New York. We’ve got Tampa, Florida got Providence, Utah, not Providence, Rhode Island, Providence, Utah Hello, Utah. Live love to the listeners who are with us at this very moment and the podcast pleasantries to those who are with us. At some other moment, maybe a couple days. Weeks could even be sometimes, you know, I see downloads Not uncommon, you know, like eight weeks later. Wherever, wherever we fit into your life into your podcast listening regiment pleasantries to you, the podcast listeners. All right, Jean, Thank you for that. Um, yeah, expecting. I mean, that’s that’s just gross tokenism and unreasonable, you know, expecting one person to reflect on the entire community, even if it’s just a neighborhood, you know? That’s that’s awful. Alright, so again, you know, like we talked about last, you and I talked about last week. We said between the two of us were these things, they’re challenges. He’s issued a challenge, but they’re not insurmountable. Theyjust take thought, you know, and some back and forth. But the these challenges can be overcome. I think so, too tiny. So, you know, you may determine on the board that you’re looking for a new board members, but not only to bring you perspective with respect to a particular population that your organization may serve. But you also may need somebody with the financial manager with background and somebody who lives in a particular geographic area and now you know how to get your candidates. He made sort of way in all of those things, and this might be house on some universities determined who to accept. You know their students when when they assess their applications, there’s sort of taking a look at all of the things and maybe the fact that a particular candidate is African American. And the example I gave to you where there is nobody with that identity on the board currently is a heavier weighting factor. But the fact that that person also has this financial experience and also comes from the geographic area that’s also not represented him. We have to think of of identity groups of being intersectional because, for example, I’m not just Asian American. I’m also a male. I also have a certain educational background. You know, certain social economic status, certain physical ability, status, a certain sexual orientation, certain gender identification, and we all encompass multiple multiple identities, and we bring different things to the table. So just sort of thinking about that and how people can contribute to an organisation overall and how you might waste certain things a little bit more at a particular period of time because it’s underrepresented in your organization. And I think you just have to sort of treated as a totality. And so while quotas, I can be helpful in some ways, especially if the board has shown no movement, adding just one member to take a good picture. And I think wait, talked about sure is in a terrible reason. You do it. So you want to make sure that you’re giving that person or those persons, preferably two or three board members. Toe bring in if you’re. If you’re picking a racial identity group, I I think really they’re bringing two or three people in minimum. Um, if you don’t have any persons that that belonged to that group, existing is really important. And making sure they have a voice and power within the organization. Well, athletic ability. I’ve seen pictures of you playing soccer. Is that your? Is that your sport now? Okay. That volleyball was a volleyball. Okay, about volleys, E. I thought you were bouncing a ball off your head, but that wouldn’t be followed. Well, that’s not that’s not good volleyball. So maybe I remember wrong. That was years ago. But I remember I don’t know. Maybe you were giving me potential pictures for a head shot or something Where they were on your website. It was playing was playing viable alt-right you’re in the sand. You’re like you’re wearing a suit in your barefoot in the sand, aren’t you? Rate a little bit old now, but yeah. Go play. Okay. Volleyball. All right, all right. Um, so let’s move. All right, so that’s that’s That’s very well said, Gene. And again, your block Post at non-profit law block dot com was into a lot of other areas in the by-laws of terms of meetings, compensation, different committees. That was a good committees. Well, we did talk about you having I made the point of having a diverse committee versus diversity committee. You make a good you make a good point in the post About diversity Committee could be valuable not being a committee of the board, because then it could be more inclusive. And you don’t consider you don’t have to bring everyone into your board. You don’t worry about expanding your board flesh out a little bit. That diversity committee that’s not a part of the board. Yeah, so you know, there there, maybe, at least in the initial attempts, difficulty to bring in that particular identity group to your organization. If you’re not really doing anything with you know that targets programs or that targets a particular aspects of what you do with respect to that identity group. So I’ll use Native Americans, for example, on DH saying, Well, we don’t have any programs that when we’re not planning on any, but we would sure like to have somebody who brings us that perspective with respect to what we do, Well, that’s going to be hard for somebody to want to be on the board, just to give you their perspective unless they’re tied to the organization in multiple other ways. But if you are looking for them just to sort of give you a little bit of voice, they might be a little bit more amenable to joining the committee that, you know, that might have a limited life man to see you know whether you really should be addressing Native Americans in your programming. Or maybe you’ve got a Native Americans on your staff, and you’re not really sort of thinking about what their particular perspectives or needs might be. That might be different from from other people. So, um, breaking committees together at hot committees or task forces and bringing in people from different backgrounds. Teo give you some advice, You know, on a high level might be a good way to start, and eventually that might lead Teo bringing them onto the board. If if you know it gets further along and you want to empower them and their ideas and they’ve got great things to contribute and you know it’s a way to bring your values that you are the organization’s agreed upon values. You know, more toa wife in what they’re doing by having the perspective. You also say that one of the activities of that diversity committee could be to conduct a diversity audit or D d I on it. Not just deficit but diversity, Equity inclusion, audit on DH giving that report voice. And then there’s a question where that should be public or not. But I thought that was that was particularly striking as well. Had an impact that can really be helpful to an organisation because you don’t know what you don’t know. And if you don’t have other perspective on it, you may never be able to find out. So bringing those people in-kind can really help. We gotta take our last break Gene. When we come back, let’s let’s talk about some decision making some oversight on a switch away from the from the by-laws nous. Really, our last break is text to give. Can you use more money? I need a new revenue source. Here’s the second one was repeated. Another way of doing it. Mobile giving learn about it with text to gives five part email. Many course fiv e mails away one a day break through some of the MS no mers and misunderstandings around what it takes to get into a text to give program the way to get the five part many course, which is five emails. One a day, you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. All right, and we have got several more minutes with Gene for for our DEA and governance, too. Conversation, um, some decision making. Jean. You know, the basically, um, you know the oversight. How does that on DH? How does how does that how is that influenced by thes de issues suren and another really challenging area that that can be very organizational specifics. I’m going to really be speaking in generalities here, or maybe giving you a few examples of what it might be. But and I think first, you know, people who are leaders and nonprofit organizations really talk about being, you know, mission centric really centered. You know, all of their decisions should be made based on on advancing the mission in the best way possible. But, you know, with respect to some organizations if you advance your mission, but without considering your values, you really Khun go a stray from what you want the organization to be, so you know you’re You might feed homeless people, for example. But certain minority groups might be excluded because they aren’t receiving communications about those services in the language they understand or you might educate students. But you’re only serving those who can access your school, which might be in a more wealth the community and you might be protecting the environment, but not in places where marginalized communities lived. And in one example that’s close to the Bay Area, you might be. You might have an immense, an impactful grantmaking program, but failed to protect your employees from harassment and discrimination. Right? And so embedding D I values in how you oversee your organization and how you plan for their future and how you set policies. It’s really important because they can address all of those things, and there’s no shortage of examples where you know your values and diversity. Equity inclusion are not part of it where things could go go wrong. So hiring the CEO, selecting consultants, determining executive compensation How do you evaluate executive? All of those things don’t be influenced by the valleys that the organization have. And if you know, diverse, equitable and inclusive, um, practices are really what you wanted your organization to stand for. And really you think that’s going to be the best way to advance your mission and have, ah, happy, satisfied, fulfilled staff and volunteers and happy donors? I think you’ve got to start thinking about those things. You’re raising your raising consciousness. You know, again, we’re shifting from discussion toe action. If your organization is committed to d I as a core value, you know, then you’re you’re raising consciousness about what you could actually do to act on it and not just talk about it at board meetings. Let’s take a minute. You We only have about two minutes left. Was there a case in San Francisco that you were referring to her? That you said the Bay Area where our non-profit got into some trouble or what? Yeah, it was more a PR issue, but with Silicon Valley Community Foundation here, one of the biggest truckers in the world, you know, you know, they they ran into some some employees harassment at issue. And maybe, uh, leadership there was was not looking at that particular issue as muchas, sort of their core mission rather than than the set of values. So it really is just an important part of every organization I think is how you carry out your mission, Not just what your mission is. Yeah. Um, all right. I feel like, you know, we’re a little short, but I feel like we should wrap it there, Gene, because that’s I think that’s just perfect. Perfect. Wayto summarize our hour and a half of conversation. So I thank you again for covering this having this conversation, these conversations with me. Thank you so much Sharing, Gene. Great. Thank you, Tony. You’ll find him at G Tack. And, of course, non-profit. Lob log dot com Gene Gene, the law machine for insiders. Gene and I are going to talk about diversity, equity inclusion and your financial planning next week, your CEO board chair relationships with Aisha Nyandoro. And that’s going to spill over into a little about what Gene and I were talking about about intentionality of the selection of your board members. Because I know that we’re going to cover that because pre recorded that with Isha, see how it all blends together should not happen. Stance, for God’s sake. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled tourney dahna slash pursuant capital P by weather CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers Wagner cps dot com by Tell US credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy. 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Nonprofit Radio for August 19, 2016: Your Supercharged Board & Your Content Calendar

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Dolph Goldenburg: Your Supercharged Board

Dolph Goldenburg reveals his wisdom for revitalizing your board committees; making your board meetings effective; and keeping engagement civil. He’s the author of the book “Successful Nonprofits Build Supercharged Boards.”

 

 

 

Laura Norvig, James Porter & Kivi Leroux Miller: Your Content Calendar

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What belongs in it? Who do you need to help create it? How do you get buy in? And how about resources to help you? Our can-do content calendar committee from the Nonprofit Technology Conference is Laura Norvig from ETR, James Porter at The END Fund and Kivi Leroux Miller, founder of Nonprofit Marketing Guide.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow a foe set if i saw that you missed today’s show you’re supercharged board dolph goldberg reveals his wisdom for keeping engagement civil, revitalizing your board committees and making your board meetings effective. He’s, the author of the book successful non-profits build supercharged boards and you’re content calendar what belongs in it? Who do you need to help create it? How do you get the buy-in and how about resources to help you? Our can do content calendar committee from the non-profit technology conference is laura norvig from e t r james porter at the end fund-raising founder of non-profit marketing guide between those on tony’s take two solitude. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com. I’m glad that dolph goldenburg is with me. He is managing director at the goldenburg group. Before consulting, he was executive director of an aids service organisation. In atlanta and an lgbt community center in philadelphia, he has more than a decade of fund-raising experience dafs company is at goldenburg group dot com dolph welcome. Thank you, tony it’s. Good to be on. And i have to give you a very you know, it’s, i’m not tryingto humble myself and, uh, you know, be in your in your pocket right away. But i have to apologize because, uh, when i first introduced the segment, i called you dolph goldberg, but that is not correct. Your name is dolph goldenburg. No worries at all of the common short shorthand for the name. Well, okay, well, but inappropriate shorthand. You you have it’s, like calling me martignetti. You know, there is that there is that syllable in the middle. So it’s, dolph goldenburg all right. And you were just recently married. Just last month. I wa sai wass after about ten years together, my husband and i decided to make it legal. So we had a very small wedding with just friends and family outstanding. And that was up in new england, right? That actually was indeed deep, deep south georgia. We’re going ok. Thie twin city metropolis twin. City of helena mcrae, georgia. Okay. I don’t know where i got northeast, but new england. But you are exactly opposite. A small town, georgia. Wonderful. Congratulations. Thank you. And congratulations on this book. Um, why, uh why do we need a book on supercharging boards? That’s. A great question. I have been an executive director for about a dozen years. And? And what i found is an executive director. Was that both my my work as a needy, but also the organization’s mission was was always either supported or made more difficulty because of the board. And what i found was that the time that i would invest in board development and the board would invest in its own development always paid strong reward. You have an interesting personal journey. Is tio how you came to write the book? I do. Actually, i i had been at a housing aid service organization gosh, for about almost five years or so and and realized that i was starting to have a midlife crisis. And so, unlike most people have a midlife crisis, i didn’t have an affair. I didn’t get a corvette. What i did do was i gave ten. Months notice that my job as an executive director and i planned an eight month long sabbatical and my my plan really on that sabbatical. Wass to think about what? What i had done well in my career what i had done poorly in my career and then really kind of put all of that down in terms of my lessons learned around board development and so through that door during that sabbatical, i sort of travel the world. I went to vietnam and cambodia for two months. I hiked around in peru for a month. I hide out west for a month. But between each of those trips, i would come back home. And i would work on this book, which, while it is very short, took, you know, about five or six months to write, and it has tend different zoho areas of topics of improvement for boards were only going to have to time to touch on three, maybe four depending how we go. But, you know, so the message is, you know, you gotta buy the book for the foot for the full ten. I love that message. Thank you. Thank you. All right, and and you’re you’re being very gracious there. I messed up your name. I got your wedding location wrong. We’re starting. I i can’t imagine interview it’s starting worse. But you’re being very kind and gracious, so we’ll get to it. It can only get much better now. Hopefully, i have more the facts, correct. You know, i feel like the interview’s going well, thank you. I do two. Absolutely. All right. Let’s get started. Rules of engagement. You want you want to seymour? Civility on boards? Yeah, and, you know, and and not just not just civility, stability is really important. But board have to sit down and say, what rules are we going to live? These are not the governing rules. These air, not the expectations that every boardmember should have, but they’re really you know, how are we going to interact with each other? What behavior is okay? And his not okay. And civility is a big part of that, you know? But you know, as some other examples we have all seen the boardmember who was the naysayers? Whatever comes up, they try to shoot it down and that’s not on ly unproductive for the board, but it’s also really unproductive for that individual boardmember because what ends up happening is if every time they open their mouth, people sort of roll their eyes. And they just tuned the naysayers. Yeah, this is the person loses credibility. But right now, how are we going to deal with this? Ah, this gadflies, this nay sayer. Well, so i believe that the first thing we do is we help the board developed its own rules of engagement. And so as an example, what would come out of that is, you know, being the naysayers is not okay. And once the board has generally come to alignment on that note, i did not say concensus, but actually come to alignment because, you know, if ninety percent of the board feels that way that’s probably what it should be. So, you know, so once the board has come to an alignment on, for example, may saying is not okay or, you know, or what happens in the meeting stays in the meeting, those types of things. Then when people move beyond that and kind of step outside of the rules of engagement, then the board chair or the governor’s chair can have a conversation with that person and really start to bring them back into alignment on the rules of engagement. Okay. And, of course, the naysayers air going toe may say that rule so on your your your point about alignment? Not not one hundred percent consensus, right? Right. We want to be prepared for the naysayers today. Say that they saying rule right? Yeah, i love the way you said. Okay, well, i spit it out fast. All right? I’ll tell you what, let’s, take our guy lily for a break. And dolph, of course, you and i are going to keep talking about the supercharged board, revitalizing committees and making meetings effective. So stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent adult let’s let’s hit a few more of these rules of engagement. Ah, i don’t want you don’t want this to sound like a battlefield plan or something, but but ah, in fact, your first one is the is the civility rule. So this the board meeting’s should not be a battlefield. All right, working through committees, we’re going. We’re going to talk a little about revitalising there shortly, but you gotta work through the structure, right? Right. So so one of the rules of engagement the board’s often come up with is if someone has a great idea the place to bring that is to the appropriate committee, not to the full board. And then you really let the committee deliberate on that idea developer recommending agent if it’s appropriate and bring that the full board because really, the full board just doesn’t have time to deal with all the good ideas that are percolating up. Is that it? Absolutely. The the work of a bored is done in its committees and one of the one of the things that i always kind of saying, this is sort of the committee math, if you will, is that if you have got five committees that meat between every board meeting for just ninety minutes, what that means is that committee dill deliberation is seven hours boardmember can’t be seven hours long, but when you have five committees each meeting for ninety minutes, you get more deliberation and you get better recommendations and decisions coming to the board. There also is an expectation that boardmember sze will prepare for committee and full board meetings. Absolutely, you know, nothing is more demoralizing both to senior staff and bored leadership, then for board members to show up having already received the meeting packet, but not having read the reports on these financials because then, really, what happens is the committee reports are just reading what they’ve already written what’s mohr has part of that expectation not also means there’s an expectation on the staff, and that expectation is that meeting packets go out with enough lead time that board members can actually review them. I swear i’ve been to board meetings where there are members opening their their packets for the first time, and, you know, they’re there cramming ten minutes. Before the board meeting is about to be called to order, right? And you know what those boardmember often don’t realize is that it is painfully obvious in the meeting who read the meeting minutes and the meeting packet and who did not read the meeting packet it is it comes out, you’re you’re gonna be you’re gonna be you’re gonna be exposed, you might not be called out, but it’s going to be obvious, right? All right. Um, confidentiality right way got to keep the organization’s promise is close to us, right? And it’s, not just confidentiality within, like, in terms of inside the organization’s. Obviously, what is said in the board meeting does not go outside of the organization, but it all does not go to other staff. So, you know, so any staff member not present in the board meeting should also not be privy to the deliberation of the board and one more that you have rules of engagement dahna whether you have authority to represent the organization, talk about that one, right? So, you know, so oftentimes they’re our board members, i shouldn’t think oftentimes sometimes there are board members who feel that they have the authority to speak on behalf of the organisation every now and then. In fact, when i started one, jobs and executive director someone to actually find a contract on behalf of the organization, they were not a boardmember they did not have the authority to do so, and we had to find a way to back out of that contract, you know? So they also do not have the authority to individually sign a contract unless the board has voted and given them that authority. Now all these rules should be adopted by the board, right? That’s what you were saying earlier, but right, right, but and i also think that the board should sit down and see and have a discussion and see if there’s other rules of engagement that are appropriate for them as a board and again to meet these air different from expectations, you know, you know, expectations are, you know, attendance personal giving expectations are a little bit higher level than rules of engagement, right? And that’s, another part of your book expectations, i just i feel like a lot of guests have covered those, but i’ve never seen you know, we haven’t talked. About rules of engagement and and some of these that you’re talking about, like the like the civility and the the the naysaying, the naysayers way have covered those before. So i like like, this whole this also area the book, and if i could say the civility is really a very positive way of saying no bomb throwers kind of like naysayers, we’ve all seen bomb throwers and board meetings and it’s it’s not effective for the board, you have any, uh, any and any bad stories you want to tell. Oh gosh, you know, i’ve only been permanent executive director of your organization, so i don’t want to get anybody in trouble by telling that story, but by telling a story, but but i will share with you that that i have seen one board where, at every single meeting, you know, this person was completely and totally negative, not just being in a sayer, but completely and totally negative about everything and, you know, was literally throwing, you know, little mini bombs into the meeting to kind of set up disagreements between other board members and then we just sit back and watch them fight for goodness. And obviously that someone who we had to move off the board, i should say, right, right, totally negative influence. Yeah. Okay. Um, let’s go teo to our committee structure, revitalizing committees. Why don’t you want to open this when our pal you want to start with with this kind of work, you know, one of the things that i said before that, you know, really ineffective board, a supercharged board does the vast majority of its work through committees, committees will always have a larger bandwidth and a deeper bench of expertise to deliberate on strategic issues that are facing an organization is part of that one of the things that i recommend is that every committee have an annual plan, so, you know, so they know what they’re responsible for that year. Ideally, they’ll have to read a four goals for the year, but then they also say, ok, if we’re gonna have, you know, six meetings every other month, meeting one we want to cover x meeting to we want to cover something else meeting three, so so that way they’re always moving the ball forward on these projects, but they’re they’re also making sure that what? They do is in alignment with the strategic plan and the organizational goals. You said it earlier. The work of the board is done through the committees. Right. Okay, so we need our committees to be effective and revitalized. As you say in the book, let’s, talk through some of the essential committees. Just in case people are not familiar with the work of the executive committee is so, you know, so often times. And let me say that some organizations have justin executive committee. Some organizations have just a governance committee, and some have both and there’s. And depending what the structure is, sometimes there’s some overlap between those two committees. But, you know, typically what the executive committee does, is it it sets the agenda for board meetings. It it liberates or makes decisions on behalf of the board between meetings when absolutely necessary, that should not happen on a regular basis. And then if there’s not a governance committee. Oftentimes the executive committee is also responsible for enforcing expectations, you know, ensuring the committee’s air meeting on a timely manner, ensuring that conflicts of interest are disclosed and deliberated and voted on by the full board. But if there is a governance committee that typically goes to the governing committee now, just like the committee’s air setting ah plan for the year is the executive committee setting up a board plan for the year? Absolutely, you know, ideally in its first month of the year, the new executive committee wants to sit down and think about what the strategic plans goals are for the year, determine which committees can help drive those goals forward and then and then work with those committees. They developed their annual plan as well. Now off. And i think also a part of that, and this is going to bleed over a little bit latto making meetings effective. The executive committee also needs to figure out what the organization’s calendar is, including the board calendar, and make sure that that is in the plan as well. The all the committee chairs sit on the executive committee, right? And it depends for some organizations. Every committee chair sits on the executive committee and other organizations. That’s, just the officers and, you know, again, to a great extent, it probably depends whether there’s a separate governance committee or not. Okay. Okay, so it’s so. Meaning, if you have a separate governance committee, then what? You, you don’t need all the committee chairs on the board, on the executive committee. So, you know, so, so if you’ve got a separate governance committee, then you might actually want all of the committee chairs on your executive committee, because because then what they’re doing, they’re setting the agenda, and and they’re doing sort of, like, very high level board work. But if there’s, not a governance committee and the executive committee, is also responsible for enforcing expectations, ensuring disclosure of conflicts of interest, you know, those those legal obligations that every board needs to be taken care of? You probably want a smaller group of people working on that, okay, so strike three for me, it’s a good thing. I’m the host of this show because i misread that one, too, okay, sorry here, all right. Yeah. It’s a good thing. I’m in charge of the show. All right, let’s. See what else? Another committee finance. And i was finance. Is this the same as the investment committee on a lot of boards krauz investment? Yeah. So? So a lot of aa lot of boards called the finance committee, the finance and investment committee. Some board called the finance an audit committee, but, you know, but typically, especially in the smaller organizations, the finance committee ends up being responsible for the audit, for investments and everything that falls underneath it. Okay. And, of course, a lot more detail in the book. You gotta you just gotta get the book. I’m going to say successful non-profits build supercharged boards. Now the committees that we have they are they’re all supposed to be meeting in advance of full board meetings, right? You i think you recommend a couple of weeks before, right? Right. So in the in the ideal world between every board meeting, all of the committee’s need as well, because every committee is in some way responsible for goals in the strategic plan and it’s helping to drive that forward. So if the committee’s air not doing their work between board meetings, the board meetings are just honestly, no, do not do not move the organization forward is not all right, let’s talk about the fund-raising or development committee what’s your advice there. So, you know, in terms of the fundraising committee, i think it is absolutely critical that and again, this is often for small and medium sized organizations that either have did either have limited or or no fund-raising staff, it is absolutely critical that they start their year looking at actual fund-raising strategies from the prior year determining what was effective, what isn’t, or going, what, as a committee and an organization they want to do again in the coming year and, you know, and i also think it’s it is essential that the fundraising committee have a voice and what the board give get is going to be they don’t ultimately have the decision, but they should have a voice in that on that that goes over to one of the expectations of board board e-giving right, okay, right now, each of these committees needs to have a staff liaison. This is this is going to get a little staff intensive, i am i? I am all about every committee should have a staff liaison. And and really, the role of that staff person is not to run the committee, but it is to help keep the committee on track. And so, as an example of the staff liaison, would help the chair buy-in putting together an agenda and sometimes that’s a friendly reminder sometimes it’s being pleasantly persistent, which is a nice way to say kind of nag, but, you know, but to make sure that the chair puts together an agenda and that it goes out to arrange all logistics for the meeting, so is a room reserved. You know, if you normally have iced tea at your meetings is they’re iced tea there to make sure that the agenda is sent to all of the committee members before the meeting, along with any other information that they’re supposed to review. And then finally, in the ideal world, your staff liaison also takes minutes at the meeting and then send those to the chair of the committee to review and approved before they get sent out. What about the executive committee? Is the ceo or executive director? They have a staff liaison to the executive committee. So in really small, non-profits, you know, so organizations that might only have two or three staff members, yeah, than absolute. The executive director end up serving as the staff liaison in a medium sized organization where the where the ceo or executive director has an executive assistant themselves. They might task the executive assistant with that. Okay. All right, that’s, the that’s, the well we should. We should talk on touch on that that there might be a program committees also that based on your you all your programmatic work, right? And the tough thing with program committees, especially when when the organization has staff, is to ensure that the program committees are operating at a strategic level and not an operational level, and to make sure that the committee really understands what their role is in that respect. And so on example, that i that i often give is, you know, whether whether program operates from seven thirty to three, thirty or eight to four is probably a staff decision. You know where as whether or not a program measures its outcomes is a strategic decision. Okay, right. We don’t want our board meddling in the day to day operations hiring, hiring and supplies and mundane things like that that are taking away from the boards much higher and much more strategic purpose. Right? Okay. All right. Let’s. Look att effective meetings now you talked about the agenda is the importance of agendas. Anything more you want to say about about how important those are? Oh. Absolutely so to me, the real point of putting together an agenda is not just to tell everyone that’s going to be in the meeting, what will happen at the meeting, but it also forces the act of putting together an agenda forces the person leading the meeting to really think through what their goals are for that meeting and to make sure that what happened in the meeting supports those gold. I like your suggestion of putting time limits on each agenda item. I do that when i for the few meetings that i that i conduct usually i’m sitting in them, but i’m not leading them, but when i do, i like to put the time limits so everybody sees it in black and white, and i don’t know how you feel about this. I appoint a timekeeper so it’s it’s somebody different than me? I’m paying attention to the substance of the meeting and the flow, but not the exact timing. Absolutely. I always believe there should be a timekeeper in the ideal world, someone different from the person running the meeting, but the other thing on time and this is something that i’m really adamant about. Especially when there’s a call an option or if or if it’s an entire, you know, teleconference meeting is the meeting has to start on time, so, you know, so even if you don’t have a core on well, you go ahead and you get started when we when we delay the start of a meeting, what we’re really doing this, we’re punishing the people that showed up on time, and we’re rewarding the people who did not show up my welcome. What can we do without what could we do without a quorum, though? Well, so so there’s some things you could do, like, obviously you can’t take votes, but you can start to have some of those strategic discussions. So, you know, so anything that is a report out or just a strategic discussion you can still do without a quorum. You can’t take any votes without a quorum, but you can, you know, but you can have those discussions, okay? And, um, i also think that from from day one, your first meeting, you tell people it’s going to start on time and then you actually do start on time and the late comers they’re going to get the message from meetings too and forward, right, and and also share with you, especially again when there’s a call an option or if the meeting is entirely by phone. You know, i am all about the meeting starts on time, but also late comers. You hear the ding. But we don’t stop the meeting to reintroduce you, to tell you who is present, to tell you what we have already done because otherwise will interrupt the meeting three or four times. So the way i tended when i run those meetings, the way i tend to ask people calling into phone conferences late is to wait until they have something to say in a conversation, and then they introduce themselves. And so for example, they would say, this is dalton, and i want to add, and then they would essentially say they’re comment. Okay, okay, we just have a minute before we have to before we have to wrap it up and let’s leave people with the the importance of minutes in our minute. I’m starting the importance of the minutes, the committee, and it went on the board minutes, you know, so the minutes are the official record of what the committee has done, as well as what the board is done. And, you know, in the ideal world, someone from the outside should be able to read those minutes and have a good sense of the official action of the organization, as well as its goals and issues that it is working on resolving outstanding. We’re gonna leave it there. Dolph the book, thank you, my pleasure. The book is successful. Non-profits build supercharged boards, get the book there’s so much more in it than we could cover here on non-profit radio, i thank you very much. Thank you, your content calendar coming up. First, pursuant, you know who these people are? They have developed tools that help small and midsize non-profits raise the money raised the money that you need to raise falik prospector and velocity. You know, i talk about thes time after time because they’re helpful, and they’re perfect for our audience, even the velocity tool, which was developed for their internal consultants pursuing consultants, running campaigns for their clients. Well, you could get the tool without the without the consultant and that when his velocity and prospector, one that helps you manage time against goal full dashboard keeping you on task day after day, week after week toward that campaign goal, check out these tools at pursuant dot com and we be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising this is not the spelling bee you grew up with, probably because they bring in stand up comedy, there’s, dance, there’s, booze, there’s, live music. And somewhere in there, the squeezing a spelling bee and fund-raising and not just fund-raising that night, but fund-raising in advance. So it’s ah, i love this because it’s just unusual fund-raising model i haven’t seen spelling bees for fund-raising i got knocked out of a spelling. Bee once on the word lettuce, can you believe it? Let us because spelling bees i don’t know if they’re this formal, but the ones i was in you couldn’t make a mistake and i went, i said, l u e t you see, but it’s too late. I had made the mistake. You’re out out on the word lettuce killed me and the winner of that spelling bee one on aeronautics hyre like i could’ve had the whole thing, but i choked on lettuce. Ever since then i’ve only eating kale. All right, check him out. We be spelling dot com and b is b e now, time for tony’s. Take two solitude. This is important for you because you work in a giving profession. You’re even if you’re back office, you know that your office is giving. Your organization is giving its saving lives. It’s, it’s changing the world. This is this is draining, exhausting work. And you have to take time for yourself. So i strongly suggest. And i hope you did this summer. Or you will as the summer comes to a close. Get time alone. Unconnected. No phones, no text, no e mail disconnected. No. Instagram no snapchat get away and i urge you ah, a little a little jovially in my video this week, it is way beyond typical weekly videos. This one even has a cast and crew. So we need to check out my solitude video. No, a solitude with a cast at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two leinheiser love. They will do it a little concisely this time live love going out to everybody. Who’s listening. Now, at this moment you know who you are. You know where you are. The live love goes out. It goes out every single week. Whether alive or pre recorded, the live love goes out. What follows that it’s the podcast pleasantries. I am so grateful for all the tens of that tens. Ten thousand over ten thousand not quite tens of thousands, but the over ten thousand listeners listening in that time shift whatever device, whatever time, whatever activity you are engaged in pleasantries to you and likewise affections to our am and fm affiliate listeners throughout the country, from upstate new york and outside philadelphia in lancaster county to washington and oregon and california and points in between. Affections to our affiliate listeners on the am and fm stations here’s, a panel from ntcdinosaur, and we talked about your content calendar. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference were in san jose, california, at the convention center, and this is also part of ntc conversations, my guests, now our laura norvig, james porter and heavy larue miller going to meet them very shortly. First, i have to shout out the inten thie ntc swag item for this interview is popcorn from microsoft, microsoft popcorn, and i have it from our production assistant, anna hannah who’s. Excellent, that this is very good popcorn. Great. We’re gonna add this to the swag pile carefully. Of course, they don’t want it disseminated across the pile and making everything oily, but i will take a couple pieces for myself. Microsoft popcorn okay. See, the closest to me is laura norvig she is a digital media strategist at tr james porter is associate director for external relations at the end. Fund-raising clolery miller is a founder, the founder of non-profit marketing guide, which is that non-profit marketing guy dot com laura james e-giving welcome, thank you. Thank you telling e-giving welcome back. Absolutely good, thank you. Content calendars and you creating communications harmony. That is your seminar topic. Uh, let’s start the star in the middle. James, what do you think? Non-profits they’re not getting quite right could do better about content calendars or maybe even just having one? I don’t know, right? Yeah, well, it starts off with just having one, but i think a lot of the the problems stem from first of all, not knowing what you want or what you need. There are a lot of tools out there and so is something that i wanted to get across. Was that you, khun? Try things and if they don’t work that’s okay, but i think one of the biggest problems is just not not realizing what you need and what what you want. And if you need something from or long term planning. You need something for data. The project management. Do you need a tool? That’s going to be everything? Or do you just need to fill in gaps with some of your existing tools? There’s a whole host of other problems. But i think step one is just really trying to figure out what you want and what your organization needs are. Okay, laura, anything you want to add at this overviewing point? Well, i know sometimes people struggle with as james said, trying to make your calendar maybe do too much and you wantto keep it simple. One of the other things people experience is getting people to actually use the calendar, so keeping it simple can help. Okay. Okay, kivi, anything for us to get us started kick us off. I think people know they need to plan, but then they don’t have time to plan, and so they run around and don’t feel strategic field too busy feel like they’re too many priorities. But then they don’t give themself a chance to stop and think. And the editorial calendar really is a way to stop and think and be more strategic. Okay, on the editorial calendar is the same, but it’s our can’t content calendar, right? Something okay, um all right, so let’s, let’s, uh, let’s get started with what should be in one? I don’t know e-giving you want to kick us off? What some ideas? What? Sharing your content calendar. So in order for it to be an editor of calendar there three pieces one is the communications channels you’re sending out your content in the second piece is the timing behind that when things are going out and the third piece is the messaging what you’re actually talking about so it’s, what you’re talking about when you’re talking about it and in which communication channels, you have to have those three things or in my mind, it’s, not an editorial calendar. Okay, james, you’re doing a lot of nodding. Yeah, i would also add to that that it’s important to also have who is responsible and who is the driver for these things and for for our content calendar anyway, because if you have a lot of people using it, you need to know who to go to jazz questions about that item who’s going to be in charge of posting. It so i think it’s also important to have that, and then i i also would add that making sure somewhere maybe it’s, not in your exact tool, but we’d like to put it in our tool is to also include your audience so that, you know, for each item in your editorial calendar who the audience is going to be, that that’s the right who the messages that particular messages for yeah, but to be very specific about it. And so we you could even do it, split it out by channels so that if you have different audiences on different channels, but the for me that it’s very important to be specific about the audience. Okay, okay, laura, anything you’d like to add about what belongs in our calendar. I think those are pretty much the basics. And then, uh, we sometimes layer on top the pushing out to social and so you could use your calendar as a tool to track so again the channels. But yeah, tracking them twitter and facebook, as well as a block poster newsletter. Okay, okay, very good. What? Yeah. So? So where were you? We’re developing a calendar. That’s got that gun, each message or each campaign? I mean, does it have has our campaigns that also has messages within the campaign? Is it? Is it that granular? I think that’s going to depend on your organization. You know, whether that’s the way you messages through a long campaign and that’s, one of the things we talked about was the long term planning. You can stretch the campaign out over time, but not that’s not gonna fit all or yeah. Okay. Yeah. And i would just add that for us, it does include every message. So for example, we had campaigner on giving tuesday. That was a video campaign, and we had a different video being pushed out every day. And so each one of those messages was individually posted on the editorial calendar. Along with what channel they were being pushed out through every day. For how long? How long before giving tuesday did you start this? There were five. There were five videos, and then the whole campaign we started when you got a tease, it let people know things were coming, so yeah, it was about about a week in total for the campaign. Okay. All right. Anything else you want to say about what belongs? What that covers it. Okay. I like the idea of making sure somebody’s responsible for each each item, right? You gotta know who to talk to without responsibility. This calendar is not goingto not going to get accomplished. Yeah, we actually go to the level of kind of the process planning. So not only who’s maybe writing a block post. Who’s got snusz edited who’s going to copy, edit it. Who’s goingto posted who? You know. So, dan, are you? There were a lot of non-profits that only had one person in their communications department. However, so in that kind of situation, you know, you don’t need to write your name on every single box, right? Well, that could be a message for the ceo. That’s i like that. Look at all this. My name is next on all this and expect me to achieve this. All right? Uh, who was involved in adopting this this calendar? Because we need to have make make sure that the organization is going to accept it. It’s going to buy-in, but they need to be a part of the process. I would think that makes it a lot easier to have them accepted, so give you let’s start with you had around, we start to get this thing well, at what stage we bring others in, right? So i think it is going very from organization to organization and then session. We did talk a lot about getting buy-in from program staff because they’re often the source of the content that’s where the really good stories come from and getting there buy-in as content creators really seeing themselves as communicators is really important, but then it’s also important to get the executive team involved because they’re the ones that really need to set the strategy for the messaging and lots of times there’s a lot of conflicting priorities, too many priorities, too much going on, really a lot of mixed messaging and in those situations it’s really up to the management team to provide some direction. But you know, those air, those air, often times for communications, director’s relationships that have to be built over time. And so i always urge a communications department to just do it, do it themselves. Do it to manage their own workload. And then hopefully over time, you’re really making it a much more organization wide tool. Okay, how does it work within your organizations? Get getting the organizational buy-in yeah, yeah, i would just say that i think you khun get people’s opinions, but it really matters the most of the people who are going to be using it the most on the day to day, those people have to be the most comfortable with it and really be the most okay with it. So, yeah, it is important to get by and from other people, but it it could also be a problem when you have an existing tool that is there already. And you have a new staff coming in and the new staff say, ok, this tool doesn’t actually work for me. So it was something that i mentioned in the session that i thought was important. Wass that to do periodic check ins. And maybe every six months, you kind of a gut check and ask the staff are using the tool. Is this tool still working for us? Do we need to add anything to it? Do we need? To consider changing it because just because you’re using it doesn’t mean it’s working. So i think it is also important to have kind of periodic check ins to make sure that it’s doing what you needed to do, okay, get laura has that work in europe? Well, that yeah, that’s one of the things we talked about in the session was was not being afraid to change your tool if it’s just not working in sometimes that’s a little hard to dio, as i was saying, we work in an orgy where sharepoint is kind of designated bi i ity but it really wasn’t working for us, so i did have a small enough content team that we just kind of went rogue, and and we’re using our own solution with trey lo and yeah, yeah, any other online resource is that you want to share for creation of your of your editorial calendar, a valuable patrol? Oh, fan myself. I’ve also used a base camp before they base camp base camp base camp has been useful and something i mentioned the session to was that i thought it was useful to for me anyway. Tohave in one place. Both a project management software and a content countering which trailer could do as well? It’s a certain degrees, you know, but and it starts getting messy when you have lots of systems and lots of tools, so the more you can integrate things or just have one tool that could do most things. There’s, no one to look and do all but that’s. Why i like to i like to base camp for having the project management and also a more robust calendar. I’ve seen a lot of organizations use google calendars very successfully because you can layer them what you can do with sharepoint too. But it but there could be so you could have separate calendars. But then you can have a view where there rolled up and you can see all of the calendar’s together. So maybe you have, you know, one of your silos if you have a siloed organization development or something and maybe program staff and they’re each working on their own calendar with either ideas or post there actually writing and then the editorial staff could see them both together. Get a bigger picture. Okay, xero the conflict points right cd you. Have too much content, too little. Yeah. Okay. All right. Where else should we go with with our content calendar? You know, we have ah, good. Another ten minutes or so together. What? What else should we be talking about? Well, i definitely think in this session, the buy-in was still a big issue. I don’t know give me waited like audience members were having trouble with having getting buy-in yeah, what? I think that was a big one, as well as the too many priorities and not enough strategy. So, you know, i really encourage people to just do it themselves if they’re not getting direction on what the limited number of messages should be or what the strategy really is. I say go ahead and you decide is the communications director and believe me, you’ll get feedback if you do something, they didn’t like it but it’s better to go ahead and provide some of that internal leadership from sort of managing from the middle, then to keep kind of floundering around. Yeah, and i think it also can be very tempting to say, okay, we have this editorial calendar, um and that’s our strategy, but it’s it’s not having editorial calendar isn’t a strategy and of itself, so we did talk about long term planning and needing that strategy, so the editorial counter needs to be informed by a strategy, but i think you can fall into the trap that you have the editorial counter, you’ve put everything on it, but then you forget about the strategy, okay, it’s, when you go over and you do the strategy and it doesn’t match with your editorial caldnear calendar, i think that was that was a problem that that came up in, that those two things don’t planning and strategy aren’t always hand in hand, and i would also just add that there was a fair amount of angst in the room about people feeling like planning than miree resulted in this rigid system that they couldn’t then produce any timely content within on. So, you know, what i always tell people is, you know, practice the rule of thirds, so a third of the calendar should be original curated content. Another third is you repurpose ing your original and curated content, and then you leave a third of your calendar open because, you know, stuff is going to come up, you may not know what it is, but something’s going to come up, so don’t over plan, but make sure you do have strategy built into that original content in that third in the in the repurpose content in that second, third, ok, yeah, that’s, really important. So i used to work for the international rescue committee, and they deal with man made and nature made disasters. And so you always needed to have that flexibility in your calendar. So even if it was a big women’s themed campaign in the spring that you have been planning for six months, you need to be able to have a little bit of room within that messaging to be flexible. If a tsunami happens or an earthquake happens or, you know, there’s, famine somewhere you need to be able to quickly pivot. Teo needs that. You need to react you right away without jeopardising everything else that you’re trying to get accomplished and a good content calendar. As katie said, we’ll leave room for those things. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profit to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. How do you deal with the case? Where you’ve you’ve got your calendar on dh? The organization is not respecting it. Maybe i don’t know if this is just the buy-in but, you know, other other other teams are saying no, no, no, i need this now, you know, or or some some something comes up from above that comes down from above that is now impinge ing on your ability to keep up with your own calendar, you know? But you respected my calendar when i showed it to you six months ago, and now you’re ignoring it for this other administrative thing or for this program problem or this fund-raising problem. But what you you dissing my calendar? What? What do we do? Stop dissing might stop beating up my calendar. Whatever you do, laura. What? Teo? Well, i think one of the things we talked about was showing people the process of what it really takes to roll out communications to kind of push back on that last minute. Itis because there is a process and it needs to be followed. So unless it’s an emergency coming directly from the ceo, you know, like step off, i can’t make that a priority now waken talk later. I mean it’s a process of education. So gotta make yourself heard. Yeah, i would agree with that. I think the mohr outside players can understand how much times something takes, how much time it takes it posa blogged, or to edit a photo or something that they the constant calendar maybe doesn’t do a great job of articulating that. Like how much lead time you need? Sure, it doesn’t get x product up, so it might be very tempting to say oh, well, you’ve got this big, you know, forge a hole between item one and item to let me put something between those two. And no, i need those four days to get item to done. So i think the education that you have to be able to say no and i need the four days i cannot do that. Otherwise item two will get done. So i think content calendars are not good at that. So that’s where the education piece comes. And james, you also talked about reinforcing it in face to face meeting. So if you have, like, a regular staff meeting where you khun very quickly go over the calendar, then it’s it’s going to start to become more clear. Okay, make it public office. Oh, yeah, we we go over. So we have ah, communications meeting once a week. And as part of that meeting, we review the content calendar with somebody from our program’s staff is balls that they’re aware of what’s going on? Sometimes you do need to check what’s in the plan right now. So i think in those situations, you just need to be very clear and articulating the trade off. So if you’re going to bump something, you’ve been planning for something that’s more timely. You need to actually say hay. We’re bumping this thing way, rescheduling it. Or are we completely throwing the work out? There’s an implication here? All right. And there is no plan for this reason, right? There was a purpose for this. And this is what is not now going to be fulfilled. Right? And sometimes you can use it later. You know, if it’s more sort of evergreen in nature, you just bump it down a month. Other times, you know, it’s lost work. But those were strategic decisions that you have to make and that’s where again, having some executive understanding of the communication strategy is important to help the communications team really make good decisions in those situations because they do come up all the time. All right, when are our boundaries respected? Right? Yes. Like i said, stop dissing my calendar. All right, so you guys spent the you all spent a lot of time, uh, in your session. What more should we be talking about? We’ve got another, like, four minutes for five minutes. What else? Whatever we talked about or what more detail maybe about something we we didn’t cover in sufficient detail. Come on. How’d you do ninety minutes together? What would you do for ninety minutes? Well, we turned it back on the audience quite a bit and had them tell us more about what the challenge is, where they were facing so and then you want share some of those challenges that we haven’t talked about? Yeah, short for detail going. You know what? One of the one of the challenges was also just time straight up. We don’t have enough time. So something that can can happen with a constant calendar, which i mentioned. When i was talking with then you have to schedule into your schedule the time to put things on the content calendars, it becomes another task on your list, you know, there’s another half hour of my time when especially for non-profits i don’t have a huge communications staff, it almost seems like it’s, just another thing that you have to do and there’s only two of you and you need to get everything else done. Anyway, i was thinking even just one yeah, i know we had a lot of people we did a little poland said, how many of you are our team of one? And you’re like a third? Yeah, of people who are just by themselves on, and so i think time was a big thing, but but i think that it content calendar can actually give you back some time, because if you’re it helps you plan longer term, if you’re going to use it that way, and so you, then you don’t have to constantly be thinking, well, what am i turning out next week? What am i posting on facebook on friday? Because of, you know already you’ve already done it, so yeah. It can it can take time to do, but it can also make you use your very precious time better than you would without it. All right, so you think it’s worth doing it for the one person short? I think it’s worth it for the one person shot because it just kind of keeps you accountable for what you’re doing rather than every day saying what my posting today, you know, one of the things i shared was that i originally used to do a lot of winging it, and i had a certain kind of a siri’s of facebook posts that i wanted to do, and every monday i was sitting down and thinking of one, and then when i kind of laid it out in a spreadsheet is like, you know what? I can plan like ten of these and schedule them in advance, and now i don’t have to think about it again, so thinking ahead in a calendar kind of way, actually, it did end up saving me time. Good is it worth if you don’t feel you can put every you know, every facebook post into account encounter having you’re bigger, you’re bigger items. All right, we know there’s gonna be a press release required for this announcement, and we know there’s going to be something coming out of the board of trustees meeting and this month, you know, so maybe just putting the biggest items there, you know, maybe not the day to day at least you got something down, right? You got a framework give me to work from yeah, so like a lot of people will just do their block post in their email, assuming that they’re going to repurpose all that into social and so they don’t talk about every single thing they’re going to talk about on facebook same thing with video that tends to be a little more production heavy, and so you’re doing video. You kinda want to treat that almost like a block post in terms of the production schedule to give yourself the time to do it, but you’re right, there’s bigger chunks of content are usually what goes on the calendar, and then a lot of people just sort of in their daily work process. No, that that’s going to go out on facebook or twitter, what other social channels are using? Okay, all right, laura, why don’t you wrap us up with final motivation? Why this is worth doing well, it’s going to help you see the big picture and it’s going to help you navigate your daily to do list a cz well and i think it’s just going to keep you more confident that you’re staying on task and hitting the themes you want to hit for your communications. Okay, thank you very much. Laura. James givi. Thankyou. Thankyou. Tony there. Lord norvig, digital media strategist that e t r james porter, associate director of external relations at the end fund-raising guide and also author and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc thank you so much for being with us next week. Design on a budget and communications mythbusters. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be spelling dot com. Our creative producer was claire buyer off sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And as music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Duitz what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation i expected to hell you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 12, 2016: Master Google AdWords & Master Your Decision Making

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Google has $10,000 of free advertising for you each month. Are you taking advantage? Learn about the program and how to plan your campaign. Also find the best search terms to bid on and stay on track as AdWords evolves. At the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference I talked to Jason Shim, associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at Pathways to Education Canada, and Mark Hallman, president of Evergreen Digital Marketing.

 

 

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You make hundreds of decisions a day: some simple and some complex. What’s the science and art behind making good ones? We discuss how to pare down choices and ask yourself good questions. Karin Hedetniemi and Jayme Nelson are from the Inside Education Society of Alberta. Karin is director of business and human resources and Jayme is an educator. This is also from 16NTC. It’s NTC Canada Day on Nonprofit Radio.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer accident, missus if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show master google adwords google has ten thousand dollars of free advertising for you each month. Are you taking advantage? Learn about the program and how to plan your adwords campaign also find the best search terms to bid on and stay on track. As adwords evolves. At the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference, i talked to jason shim, associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education canada and more coleman, president of evergreen digital marketing and master your decision making you make hundreds of decisions a day, some simple, some complex what’s the science and art behind making good ones. You’ll learn how to pare down choices and ask yourself good questions. Karen headed niimi and jamie nelson are from the inside education society of alberta. Karen is director of business and human resources, and jamie is an educator. This is also from sixteen ntc today is ntcdinosaur abila day on non-profit. Radio attorneys take to love your work we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant to dot com. Here are jason shimanto, mark holman from auntie si welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen auntie si the non-profit technology conference. We’re also part of ntcdinosaur say, shin, we’re in san jose, california, at the convention center on day three of the conference. My guests now are jason shim and mark holman will meet them very shortly first have to shout out today this this interview’s, not just one a day, but one interview swag item, which is a ah brand dahna and it’s from ah on good from on good many ways to wear it and also ah ah, yo, yo alighted yo yo, which we don’t have enough don’t know brought enough frame, i can’t demonstrate my you’ll go, yo, yo prowess! I used to be able to walk the dog doo around the world, you know, rocket out horizontal butt back-up you’ll have to take my word for it that i can still do it, so this joins our swag pile. All right, jason shevawn jason is associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education in canada. Thank you. Very welcome back, jason. Thank you. Believe it was two years ago. It ntcdinosaur good, mary and more. Coleman is president of evergreen digital marketing. Mark, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. My pleasure. All right, gents, we’re talking about how to be a google adwords superhero waken rock this now let’s talk first about the ten thousand dollars per month program for non-profits who who knows this program best. Is it free? How do we where we find it? What is this? Who knows the best? Go ahead. Yeah. Basically it’s ten thousand dollars of in-kind advertising given by google every month. It’s rule over grantspace oh, there’s there’s no limit to it as long as you keep me in the grant requirements and basically it’s in-kind so the little adds it show up on the top the google search results and that’s what you get so it’s a great program be part of. Okay, where can we find info for people who’ve never heard of this before? Google’s website is, i believe it’s google dot com slash non-profits or for canada’s, google dot cn non-profits okay, and you get ten thousand dollars a month? Yeah, a month free. Edwards. Yeah, free average it’s. Not a cash it’s non-cash granted in-kind advertising, but every month limited to three hundred twenty nine dollars per day. But every month on going, as long as you meet the program requirements, there is no expiration date. Okay, did you find it very hard to qualify if you’re i mean, if you’re in the u s and your five o one c three or if you’re in canada and you have the wherever the equivalent designation is, um, you’re a bona fide non-profit is that about all it takes are very much if you meet the requirements for being a registered charity, then you’re pretty much good to go. Okay, well, that’s outstanding, alright, i’m not sure how widely known that is, but it is now because everybody listens to the show. If they’re not, then they do. They ignored at their peril because then i don’t know. All right? Well, let’s, talk about some campaigning. Where should we start with our google now? We’ve got three hundred eighty nine dollars a day forever. Where should we start our campaign? So i think that one of the first things to start off with is really identifying you know what your organization’s your mission is? And then how you can align some of those add words to to align with, you know, with that that mission. So for example, for pathways to education canada, you know, our mandate is to help high school students that they’re living in low income communities to graduate from high school. So anyone searching for any topics that are related to, you know, dropout prevention or helping the high school students day in school or people that are living in communities that we serve, you know, whenever there searching for nothing’s really to education and drop you? No, we make sure that we sort of an ad. So, you know, they confined our resources more easily and that we can get access to nothing’s like tutoring and mentoring and, you know, access to scholarships and things like that. So it really helps connect people with the resource is out in the community, you know? Yeah, how do we think broadly about what keywords people might be searching for? Him and, you know, i’m sure every organization could name half a dozen off the top of their head, but how do we go beyond that? Maybe listening on twitter? I don’t know. You tell me, how did we go beyond what it comes to it comes to mind immediately. I think, it’s, you can start with a sort of ah thought experiment and just trying to get into that the heads of other people and really, you know, using your, you know, just general empathy. So when you, for example, mark and i, we used to live in a way we’re sort of used to work together in kitchen waterloo at a place called cries in family counseling services. And what we did was we were trying tio create ad campaigns to target people who are looking for things that couples counseling. Nothing is the market for key which couples counseling. You know, the bid rate is quite high, you know, for it. And then when you think about it, you know, by the times a couple realizes they need couples counseling. You know, you may have to pay more than what you have for those kind of words. You rewind it, you know, a month, six months prior. You know what? What kind of things might that couple be going through? And, you know, trying we wind up that way. So the kind of things maybe bidding for it’s, like, you know, i’m having challenges, you know, communication with i suppose, you know, how do you resolve money issues? Fundamental difference of opinion about children. You know, things like that that, you know, you dahna you at the end of the path, you know, but for people who would require a couple’s counseling you how to get to them a little bit earlier to kapin act them with the organization. So really it’s just a lot of service sitting there and thinking, oh, i love that idea of thinking ahead because you actually beat the competition that is paying the higher price for couples. You know, for that phrase couples counseling, absolutely relationship counselling you can get. You can beat the competition if you’re thinking a couple of months earlier. What are they talking about? Like money? Children finance center? Yeah, cool. On another example, i can provide and american and speak to this. Ah, bit as well. When we part of the service that were offered was credit counseling, and the thing is, like payday loan places like they’re they’re willing to bid up to, like fifteen dollars per click and the google lad words eyes limited to two dollars per click maximum. Okay, so you really have to be extremely creative when you’re thinking about, you know, for some of those services where you also, you know, essentially competing against for-profit right on do you know, how can you think about, you know, okay, so for people that are running into credit issues down the road, you know, what might have looked like six months prior? And, you know, maybe, you know, people are searching for, you know, troubles making their bills or looking for, you know, initial, you know, information about me, you know, loan consolidation or things like that, you know, before they get into that critical, you know, the moment where you know, they’re they’re living on sort of impact back loans and yeah, so it’s just a lot of thinking and but one of the greatest tips that i think we received when we first discovered hardware it’s from the ultimate guide. To adwords by perry marshall, you know, way highly recommend that book through the ultimate guide to edwards. Yeah, it’s called okay. And if one of them was read cosmo magazine and, you know, i think cosmo magazine provides a lot of lessons around, you know that the way that it cost one magazine covers designed, you know, it’s it’s designed to entice, you know, people that are going through a shopping check out to pick up a copy immediately, and i mean, it’s been the best selling woman’s back-up dean since nineteen seventy to know so, you know, they really done that in the print industry on the transits quite well into design in-kind adwords campaigns, you know as well you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it, tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna oppcoll is pathways to education canada using google edwards ten thousand dollar month program? Yeah, yeah, ok, and mark, you have other clients that are as well, successfully, yeah, a number a number and you’re going with jason’s saying as well to part of the big part of adwords is trying to think of you know how how our people need our programs and services are looking for us if you’re doing banner ads or magazine dad, you have the opportunity kind of show what your your services are in google search is very specific, you can’t think of what our people looking for it so how two’s the wise all the questions for help versus the opportunity of having made a scene at where you can put a big, you know, big, full page description of what your services are. This is really an opportunity for people who are actively searching for your programs and services and bring them right back to website. So it’s a really important program tohave from non-profits okay, after we’ve set on decided on a set of at words, phrases that we can afford to bid on how do we i’m thinking next stage is monitoring our our results day today is that if i skipped anything but, well, there’s there’s a process there’s the whole setup piece, which is your campaigns, i groups keywords creating your ads, but one side nuts and bolts piece of it is done gather it is the moderate peace and add words and google analytics are fantastic for that they show you click the rates that should you conversion rates if you have that set up impressions and something, and really manage actively and make wise decisions on a short term basis and that’s what actually drew me, tio adwords and that grants program originally was the fact that i came from a auto back-up under we have the auto trader, which is it’s, a paper magazine, and anatoli, you’re hoping to see people come in and say, i came here because i read your magazine without words, jason first showing the dashboard the first day i’m like, okay, we can actually see that accent or people clicked this ad in this time frame. It went back to her web sight and took actions, so get the monitoring in the politics part of is a really big piece it’s important? Okay, yeah. Jason, won’t you talk about this more? Yeah. What’s really great is that you can really make data driven kind of decisions, which is, you know, one of the hallmarks of working in digital, an example i would give us, you know, we we had run a campaign to get supporters to donate their air miles to our organization, and we worked off the assumption that, you know, people want to give their, you know, their airline miles, you know, the goodness of their hearts because, you know, you know, but what? We quickly realized that, you know, they think the ad copy was something along the lines of, like, hey, you know, i don’t need your airline miles to ah, charity focused on youth and, you know, the click through rate on that were abysmal, like they weren’t fantastic people converting, so we, you know, we sat down and went back and thought about it, and the ad copy that did perform better was, hey, i don’t have enough miles teo to go on a trip, you know, donate them to our charity instead, which reflected the kind of reality that some people face when you realize that you need, like maybe ten or fifteen thousand miles. You wanna trip in two thousand? Yeah, and they just want to, you know, do something good with it. And, you know, because they can’t go anyway, and that one converted three times better and it’s amazing to be able to get death the metrics around that and really support some of those hypotheses around. You know how hard people thinking, how are they behaving? And you can really test those out. And conversely, you know, sometimes you know the hypotheses that you come up, you know, fall completely flat as well. But it’s, you can always go back to the data rather than relying on sir. These, you know, anecdotal, you know, kind of gut feelings. You can still have toast, got feelings, but you consistently validating them over and over again with the data, which makes us think, edwards, you know, when the most compelling platform’s teo really experiment and run campaigns. Mark, you mentioned something. I want to die aggress to an add grants. You said adwords and add grants what’s with the ad grantspace program. Yeah, granted, we’re actually talking here for non-profits adwords is a platform that google has five times in that sort of business is, you know, and you can pay for ads today. But i grantspace the non-profit program that’s just ten thousand dollars month. Exactly. Okay, exactly. All right, e-giving a straight. All right. Okay, well, all right. So now we can monitor results like day to day, right? I mean, we and at the end of a week, we can see one phrase, one word is performing quite well. Another is not so weii stop bidding on the on the underperformers that basically what what we do? Yeah, basically straight a be testing and if one odds working other ones not if it’s we’re talking incremental increases. Here is what we’re talking about. One point five click through rate versus the one point seven or two point three it’s not always an eighty twenty of this huge disparity. Okay, but over time, you can make these incremental increases and really improve your presence, and we’ll set up typically set up two ads per at group abila play them out like jason mention. We make assumptions about what’s going to work, and we’ll quickly learned that it does or it doesn’t and they get to go on. We’ll pause the one ad, create new adam, obviously reset the process and move forward. So kind of a fun game that i have with my summer intern. So we get a summer intern every summer, and what i do is i challenge them to a competition. So every week will come up with an ad and you’ll see what the results are. And then we face off every week, so the lower performing at gets paused. And then we were both trying to create a better one every week. So, you know, by the end of the summer, you sort of have this, like, hunger games, you know, style of creation. You know, only the strongest survives the best click through and the best results and conversions. Okay, all right. And pathways education canada benefits. All right, they’re the winners. All right, do-it-yourself time together. What? Let’s? See what else? You, uh, campaign what else can we say about a campaign but the ongoing but i think waken speak a bit to the google grantspace oh, program. So if you max oh, it’s, your ten thousand dollar grant does there’s a few. Of requirements in there, you max out your the ten thousand dollar grant for two months out of the prior six months a cz well as maintaining certain kind of quality metrics around new york, like two rates, and also setting up conversions non-profits are eligible to apply for the grant bro count, which is forty thousand dollars a month, which is nearly half a million dollars a year in in-kind ad revenue and, you know, that’s that’s a great way for, you know, larger non-profits or international facing non-profits to get additional kind of exposure grantspace pro it’s called that’s pro. Okay, ru is pathways education dahna grand pro now, yet we’re out run away, but i know that america is a bricked with several clients against pro against yeah, we have a few that working with the grands prix accounts again. It’s the more than international reach or the national across the states reach the reality is a lot of our smaller non-profit to have a regional focus, a search based so there’s a limitation, sometimes near population, searching for programs and the relevancy in just the raw reach doesn’t there sometimes, but for the bigger the big organizations absolutely it’s a fantastic way to actively manager account and and really reach out. Okay, okay. You are. You also spent some time talking about keeping your skills fresh. As as adwords evolves. What is that about what happens? I think that the platform is constantly changing. And s o back in toronto, i teach additional marking classes in the evenings. And one of the things that i tell my students is that in one working in adwords and analytics, that the platform can change at any time on do you have to adapt to it? That’s part of you know, being, you know, working in digital. So an example would be, you know, if when, when google changes algorithm for search, you know, you have to respond to that. And you read up on, you know what the new algorithm changes? Maybe an adjuster campaigns accordingly. Another one is sometimes the platform itself changes. So you log into the interface and, you know, the buttons of switch debate or there’s. A new feature or a new tab. It’s? Very disconcerting. Yeah. Especially people. We’re not, you know, native digital. You know, you just used to something for years. And then without an announcement, it’s different. Yeah, so you have to keep on constantly beating and adapting and everything, but part of it is that, you know, even though, you know, for people who have been doing it for a while, you know, and maybe a little bit disconcerting to, you know, have everything shift, i think it’s also an opportunity for people who are completely new to the platform, i mean, it hits the reset button for ever, right? So if you’re if you’re brand new getting into edwards, i mean, it’s a great opportunity jumpin you’re at the same level of everyone else. So, you know, it’s it’s also, i think, a positive thing for people you do not feel intimidated about jumping into it cause i know that when you first log into the dashboard it’s like it’s, a lot of buttons and everything, but you know it, it’s, you know, both of us, you know, we start doing adwords about seven years ago when we were working at a smaller non-profit and, you know, it’s been a constant kind of learning and evolution, and we’ve seen so much change on the platform, but, you know, the more time you spend in that, you know, it’s, the analogy we used in in our in our session was, you know, we’re not the kind of like superheroes i got bitten by a radioactive spider and wasn’t dad with all these superpowers to do add words, we would be more like, you know, the batman or the ironman in-kind things where, you know, just a regular person who, you know, that man went away for, like, five years, you know, into the mountains to, you know, train and honed his skills and everything. So, you know, similarly, i think it’s a lot of reading so really is start off with a you know, just that the ultimate guide to edward’s weii read that book cover to cover many several times. Okay, is there a i presume there is? Ah, blogged that block for edwards so google keeps yeah, google keeps obl argast adwords dot black spot dot com and that’s not asleep. Grants focus but that’s where all the new updates come out. Oftentimes the update will come out a few days before they get around the block post. So part of the fun as you log in. And you think things were happy? Like, oh, shoot where’s my reports button, but they are constantly changing things and they are constantly improving. That’s part of the fun of google’s, they’re always innovating and, you know, a few weeks ago they went from having ads in the top the stop the search is off and the side too, just the top. So jason’s thing it’s an opportunity to have you say that’s what i noticed that s o for advertisers, you know, we were used to having, you know, three or four spots across the top, plus five or six more down the side. Now we’re down to two or three or four at the top has become really competitive, so if you’re willing to spend the time and research and learn the program, you’re competitive, you could be up there. So it’s, not it’s, not it’s, not something you’re like. Jason said begin with immediately and be up there, but you can learn it quickly and to spend the time. That’s what? We both started a lot of reading a lot of time out the side of our deaths and a lot of time at night, you know? Just just learning the craft. It is definitely a worthwhile investment in time because i think that for all the organizations i’ve been involved with after implementing the edwards grant, like, you see a good spike in traffic, you know, in your google analytics, because people are finding the organization and all the the services you offer much easier and better. And, you know, mark has a similar in-kind of experience with the organization that he works with, like, just getting general traffic over to your site for better awareness and, you know, connecting with existing supporters who are looking to make a donation like no one, no one google’s like, you know, i have too much money, you know, how you know who can i give it to you? I don’t, yeah, yeah, me strategic, yeah, all right, now you had a superhero theme your your session? I see now i am not a dc comics guy or, like, superheroes, guys, so hyre were you challenging? You’re challenging audience members, too identify with a superhero name themselves a superhero now? Yeah, not actually named themselves, but the whole approach was that you could be a superhero as well, and you can learn the craft, you can hone your skills, you could be a superhero and you really do live responsibly. The digital marketing record in your organization to learn this and, you know, it’s there it’s free it’s free money from google’s free ahjumma, google if you dont having not using it is a bit of a disservice. So step up, be a superhero and you know, okay, take it up. What is excelsior in? You’re in the ghazal jutze river in the session description says excelsior that’s how you ended it, excelsior all right, so that was that was just like a superhero. Kind of like exclamation that comment is the marvel comics. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Part of superhero theme is also, you know, the spider man quotation. You know, with great power comes great responsibility and that’s good if you have an opportunity to connect with someone and you missed that opportunity, you know, that could be someone who was searching for, you know, help with their rent to what their anxiety or depression or help you with some of their personal challenges. Kapin you can’t be serious. You’re absolutely way. Have a couple more minutes left. What have we not talked about or what you want to see? More detail may be something we covered too quickly. You spent ninety minutes in a session, so i know you got more. You got more knowledge than nineteen and a half minutes. I think that one of the questions that we ask this, you know, how much time does this take, you know, to do adwords. And to be honest, i wish i could say that, you know, it’s, you know, you can always make you know the case and be like, okay, i’m going to spend this amount of hours and you know, you’re your organization is going to support you all the way to do it. But, you know, the reality is, you know, sometimes you get you know, you’re really busy and non-profits and no this’s another thing to do on top of the you know, the ten or twenty, you know, items on your list for the for the week. And i guess what i want when i want a share is that when we both started out doing add words like we really were doing it off the side of my desk, you know, to try and prove that viability that you know, to bring in new traffic for our site. So you two, i guess whatever advising people are looking into adwords is you don’t know that this way. Do you know if if you to have a passion for it and are willing to do, you know, a bit in your spare time to even, like, get the initial ball rolling like it’s worth it? You know, even just to prove the viability to the organization because i know could be hired to try negotiate for that time and resources and initially to get started, okay, but you’re encouraging. Yeah, for sure and the other part, guys don’t expect you have to spend two, three, four hours per week and build all your campaigns the first it can be a slow burn, it’s non going grant you khun step a a few basic campaigns to start with you learn the accounts, learn how things work and build from there that’s often often times your clients of just become super overwhelmed because they want to have this full blown fifteen campaign hundred ads that i’m going to spend my ten thousand dollars, but it’s a race today you don’t need to you and that’s actually very good point too. We always talk it’s not about spending ten thousand dollars of spending the money properly, and you might spend five dollars, a month or a thousand dollars a month. But if you’re reaching your target and the people need to find your finding, you dori with ten thousand dollars, worry about doing it properly and make you spend the money properly. And i think one of the great things, both antennas, that there’s ah, a community of people that are using adwords this well. So, you know, one of the things i was really important for our session is like it’s, not only to show people how to use adwords, the google adwords grant better, but also, you know, reminding people like, you know, don’t forget to reach out to those around you because we’re all facing similar challenges, and we’re all along, you know, a spectrum of you know your movies to experts and you know, whenever something changes and all the experts become newbies again and so making sure that, you know people recognize you. There’s always help. You know, just around the corner just, you know, don’t be afraid to ask for help when especially in the country. Nufer is there a, uh, maybe xero community of practice around add words, you know, in in ten? Not yet, but we should yeah, but i mean, you know, they’re very liberal about ah, a couple of people interested, and now they’ll support it, ok, there isn’t yet, but yeah, the entire community is very giving. So even without a formal structure around around edwards, there’s still help. They’re absolutely just posted one of the one of the one of the community boards you any and ask ask for help, ok? And the one thing that i would mention is that american speak to some of the more advanced you said, just so you know, i think there’s there’s certain things that you khun dio with the free adwords grant, but it also helps pave the way for a charity to explore usage of paid advertising as well, and that, you know, the edwards grant is a great way to sort of explore those initial kind of foundational steps before moving to the paid advertising or what you have. Demonstrated clearly return on investment for you’re on schnoll can about what you can persuade the leadership that there’s value, then maybe they’ll start to invest some of the organization money. Is that where we’re headed exactly? A string itself is an expert, as you understand there’s gaps, we might know jason talked about competing with the pity loans places are competing with payed counselors and professionals add words is a really competitive market, but if you can show yourself is an expert and so you know what, here’s what we’ve done, but there’s a few gaps over here would like to other, you know that on some paid, you know hyre big key words or potential duitz, um, banner advertising, the google explain network or even potentially do some advertising on youtube that’s all within the average platform, i’m in a number of my clients and people i work with have their google grants account and also separate google adwords account is paid and google’s fine with that, they there’s no wish with that as long as you’re not competing on the same let’s name keywords in your paid account and you’re free account latto issue okay, okay, so you can you can do both side by side. Exactly. All right, exactly. Okay, should we wrap it up there? You think we’ve anything else? Well, before we do any other good, you have to raise something that made me think any other good questions that came from from the audience in your session. You want toe one highlight eleven were around some of the kind of technical details and that there are quite a few kind of, you know, technical, administrative details, you know, related to, you know, properly administering your adwords account. So one question that did come up during our session was, you know, what? If you’re inheriting account that, you know, it is quite old and, you know, it may not have been well administered in the past, you know, how should you even start to, you know, fix it up, and our suggestion for that was to, you know, to break it down into buckets and just start changing it one campaign at a time to try and use proper structures and applying very method a logical approach to it, rather than sort of the scattershot approach that may have been used. But if you’re inheriting a campaign that has been a total mess, then, you know, chances are it’s not performing very well. You may as well just wait. You know, most paul’s most of the campaigns and restart everything. Three other question that came as well, it was just, you know, are on general support. And one thing that i like some of the google reps here at ntc mentioned is that there is a support line as well. So, you know, it’s it’s amazing, because there was a lot of companies that don’t offer, like, direct phone support. We’re talking about telephone support. Yeah. So from google. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was actually a number that you can call, you know, if you’re adwords grantee that you know, if if you need help navigating, you know the main panel or creating ads or whatever, you know that there is, you know, entire support team that you can pick up the phone and call and they will help navigate through summer. The challenge is excellent. So that that number is available. Okay, that is rare. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let’s, leave it there. Thank you very much. Thanks. Alright. Jason shim, associate director. Of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education canada, and mark coleman, president of evergreen digital marketing. Thank you again, gents. Thanks, tony. Thanks, thank you very much for being with us. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thanks so much, master. Your decision making is coming up first. Pursuant, like google adwords and making good, smart decisions pursuant helps you raise more money. Their tool velocity keeps you on task. Working toward that fund-raising goal. It was developed for pursuing fund-raising consultants so valuable for their client campaigns that they rolled it out directly to you. You, the small midsize shop. Use it yourself and get the value you need without the consultant. Check out velocity at pursuant dot com. Time now for tony’s take two. Do you love your work? I hope you do. I hope that you do something that engages you inspires you that you just feel so strongly about, you know that we throw the word passion around so much, but you just feel it that look, not every single day you’re going to work out, wake up some days and say, god, i hate this job. Oh, god, i wish i could just stay in bed, pull the covers over, but nine or ten days or eight or nine or ten days out of ten do you wake up and you just feel great about the work that you’re going to be doing the lives we’re saving, the the transformation, the change that you’re making in the world. I hope you feel good about it. I hope you feel great about it. Not just like it. I hope you love your work. Oh, and if you don’t, if you’re among the many who i see great faced on the subways, they don’t look like they’re happy going to work. I urge you to look to make that change small steps a little bit of a time start to see the light at the end of the tunnel i just urge you tow love the work that you’re doing i hope you do that’s tony’s take two live listener love i gotta send it out the live love goes out all the time so grateful for our live listeners listening right now at this moment now on august twelfth live listen love to you podcast pleasantries there can’t be live love without podcast pleasantries it can’t be just like the affiliate affections that air coming up podcast pleasantries to the over ten thousand listeners in the time shift. I’m very glad you’re with me pleasantries to you and those affiliate affections are multiple many am and fm stations throughout the country. Let your station know that you’re listening so that they know non-profit radio is valuable in their weekly schedule affections to our affiliate listeners. Here are karen headed niimi and jamie nelson with master your decision making welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc that’s, of course that’s, the non-profit technology conference hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. This is also part of ntc conversations we’re in san jose, california, at the convention center on my guests are karen already said karen headed niimi and jamie nelson, and their session topic is the science and art of decision making. Karen is director of business and human resources at the inside education society of alberta and she’s sitting closest to me and jamie nelson is an educator at the inside education society as well, ladies, welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. My pleasure. Indulge me, please. While i just highlight our swag item for this interview, which is from think shouts a t shirt from think shout! And according to our outstanding piela hanna, this is a minimalist star wars theme. She can point out that there’s ah, minimalist death star and a minimalist. What else is there? Millennium falcon. See it! See the minimalist millennium falcon that’s, an mmf minimalist millennium falcon. For those of you who are not on the video, i’m sorry. Go to real tony martignetti dot com r e a l and you can watch the video there. It’ll be there shortly, so we’re adding this to our second day swag pile. All right, that’s. Where it goes, the science and art of decision making. Karen what? What are our challenges around decisionmaking? Well, i’ll tell you a little bit of the backstory of this session, okay? Came to the non-profit technology conference last year for the first time, and i am not a techie, but i want to learn more about trends and issues. And after it was over, i was very overwhelmed. And i thought it would be really need if there was a session on another life. Important topic to kind of give my brain a break. So weii well, had to choose this one, but i don’t know. You know what? It just came out of the universe. But i was here to make decisions about technology solutions, and i was having some trouble, and yeah, so i just thought, you know what? I need to learn more about this and so it’s been a good long years journey. And here we are spent a year curating content a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Jamie wanted to share. What did you what have you learned in this curation process? So karen invited me in after she’s done. Quite. A bit of the legwork, which was wonderful on dh, so for me, it was really trying to look at the three different kind of areas of decision making, so we talked about the science on dh. Then we talked about what it’s like to take in additional information, and then we kind of talked about some of the influences, and i think for me, one of the big things that i learned is is too to understand the systems that are happening every time that we face a decision. And that was really, really important because, like karen said, we’re here at the ntcdinosaur decisions a cz non-profits we’re faced with all kinds of, like, really important decisions on dh, so being able to kind of understand that process was really, really valuable as part of this whole building of the presentation, okay? So there’s, the science, the influences and the process all around our decision making. What did the count since you did most of the duration will give you the chance. What? What do you learn about the science of decision making? Well, it drew a lot from the work of dr daniel kahneman, who wrote the book thinking fast and slow and he’s very respected in his field. He’s, a psychologist. And he also won the nobel prize in economics for some of his work. So okay, smart guy. He basically proposed that our approaches to judgment and choice take their two mental systems or modes of thinking one of them is sort of fast and instinctual. Then the other is slower and deliberate. So that was sort of based on the different types of decisions we have to make, like whether whether it across the road now versus whether to buy a new home are hard wiring. You know, we come free built right way. Have different types of thes to these two methods of decision making. Break down into the types of decisions we have to make for sure, like one is mohr sort of natural? The fast thinking that we do is effortless is just something we do is we navigate our life. We drive the car down the road. Okay? Slow thinking is more deliberate. It’s more logical thinking through procedures. Little more algorithmic. So it takes more mental effort to do logical thinking decision making. It takes longer. Okay, more deliberative. Process? Yes, exactly. Um, is that all you learned on for you in the years that all the science you master and that’s it? No. I mean, we boy, you could go on forever. I mean, a decision making is such a huge topic. You can look at it from a leadership aspect. Marketing behavioral economics. It’s huge. We just sort of focused in this session on, you know, information overload in an increasingly digital world. And how that’s we process that kind of information differently. Then then what? What we’re hardwired to do? Just perfect. Because, that’s, what you suffered after an ice twenty fifteen mental fatigue you were you were distressed and overloaded. Exactly, there’s. Not that you suffer from ntcdinosaur. The after effect was it was so much value, so much value. You were you were you were shell shocked. All right, so how can we start to help people in their decision making? And, you know, let’s, take the the normal in our conversation. Let’s, take the normal day to day decisions. Not this. Something is simple minded is crossing the street. But you know some fair minded work decisions or personal decisions. But it’s not. His monumental is whether to buy a home, whether they have a child but, you know, you know what? Like, what am i gonna have for dinner tonight or ah, whether i should have my parents over or, you know, i mean, average sort of day to day decisions, sort of in the middle of the spectrum, very fair, fair enough, very good point because our brain doesn’t doesn’t prioritize all the decisions we have to make in a day so we could be spending a lot of mental energy on things that are a trivial nature. Andi and then we don’t have enough reserves for the important ones, you know, when when we’re expending mental effort in our slow thinking we are we’re the brain is using twenty percent of our body’s energy. Oh, gee, so we’re using up more of that energy in our in our logical processes. So if there’s a new way of losing weight, i just obsess about whether across the street now definitely can i can i lose twenty pounds? Not that i have a lot to lose, but but but, you know, yeah, i obsess about whether to put the stamp on the envelope right side up or upside down. Can i drop some pounds? You may drop some pounds. I know, i know. All kidding aside energy not calories, energy. Okay, assuming energy. Okay, but, i mean, you do. You are depleting some of your resources. If you spend too much time on thing on decisions that just ultimately don’t matter that much. Ah, so, you know, some really good advice is to look at how you are. You know, how? First of all your energy when you’re making these decisions, you don’t want to make them when you’re tired and hungry. I mean, this is just obvious when you’re feeling emotional things, you can monitor about yourself in a busy life. We just go, go, go, go, go. We don’t have this sort of transition zone to kind of recent reset our mental mode to the next transition zone. Right? We don’t. We don’t have. Okay. Okay, jamie, anything you want to add at this? Ah, scientific stage. Yeah, well, i think a lot of people can can relate to that. And that transferred really well from kind of talking about how, as an individual, we make decisions and what influences us whether it’s past memories, past experiences, you know, the time of the day, how much you’ve had to eat, i think it really translates well when you’re talking about the non-profit world is a cz well, so if you are thinking about some major decisions that you need to make, you want to make sure that you’re you’re planning your board meeting an appropriate time of the day, you know, like so people are feeling fed if you feel really happy if you’re in a really good mood than that can actually make you less thoughtful in your decision making. And so we’re not saying that, you know, everybody should be kind of new thriller on happy in a board meeting, but just keeping these kinds of influences in mind. So in your day to day life, if you’re if you’re making decisions on what project to work on or if you’re making some of those bigger organization all decisions just keeping these influences in mind, khun b can actually have quite an impact, and that was really surprising me to me to find out all of these external factors and how you know, just one of the stories. That, karen tell, told in the session today, was how if you’re holding a warm liquid like a cup of coffee, yeah, you actually feel warmer feelings towards the people person that you’re chatting with, which makes sense culturally, like we get together over coffee all the time. And so and usually when someone asks you to go for coffee, it’s not because they want to yell at you, it’s, because they want to have ah positive, you know, productive kind of conversation, so that was was really interesting to think about and and that’s, what i loved about this session is it helped us kind of connect with our our own processes, but at the same time, we can think about how it influences our day to day work. Excellent, i like toe like that exploration of holding a warm liquid, what other other influences are there that we haven’t talked about yet? Ah, well, we’re we’re influenced by almost everything in our environment, you know, our natural impulses when you know if i look at you and i see i might be able to detect that you’re angry, just buy one or two words that you say in the tone, you know, whether makes us happy if you ask someone if they’re happy and that’s a beautiful brightstep durney day, they’re more inclined to say that they’re happy than they are on a cloudy sort of moody day. You know, we are feeling beans before we are thinking beings and so, you know, this translates in our day to day life. All right? So how do we dahna control some of these things? The one that we can control? You can control the weather, but our feelings, our state? How do we how do we sort of harness that? So that we do make better decisions? Well, you know, a very simple thing you khun dio, is before you’re making a decision. Put yourself in a neutral state of mind, you know, you can. You can just say write down everything that you did yesterday, step by step in sequins i got up, i had breakfast, i drove to work, had my day of work, came home, walk the dogs you’re just sort of reset it’s like it’s like your computer, your rebooting your computer on. Then you’ve shifted your mental mode, you know you’re not bringing in. Maybe your emotion and your anxiety and whatever you’re kind of reset, and then take the appropriate approach for what type of decision that that it is, you’re making. You want to just take a step back, you need this transition zone, you know, it’s hard, all the switching we do all the time, you know, between with multi tasking, you know, they’re really saying, well, what you’re doing is, you’re you’re, you’re just doing attention switching, and that is very depleting in our mind, in our body. So, you know, having a little, like, if you go to a therapist and you have an appointment, your appointments probably going to be about forty five minutes, not an hour, because they use some time to prepare. Have your session sometime to externalize what just happened and and collect some notes and be ready for the next person, you know, that’s logical. I see my yeah, i see my therapist for three hours, three hours, three times a day for a week, so i don’t know how she’s managing externalization she’s got just needs she needs to download, just like on the only person we could see each of those three days or practices suffering. I’m humble, unpaid, well, externalizing information. I mean, it’s coming at us, and i mean, we we learn our brain like spatial, you know, and and the context of the environment that we learn in having all of this information coming at us. It’s. I mean, yes, lists are still important in this digital age. It’s still important to you, externalize some of what’s going on in your mind so that you can look at it as an observer in your environment, rather than you know, yeah, okay, little dispassionate, yes, once removed, but but clearheaded, i see your hand, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m gale bauer from sponsorship strategist dot com dahna. Anything else about these influences? Because we’re going now, we’re going to move to the process. Okay, but anything more about the influences? Well, i mean, biologically speaking, good moods. I mean, meant to us and our ancestors that environment was safe. We could we could relax a little. We could let our guard down, but that makes us less vigilant. You know, a bad mood. Singles tow us. Something’s wrong. I might need to protect myself. There might be a threat. I need to pay more attention. So, yeah, emotions. Like i said, we’re we’re thinking or feeling beings before we’re thinking. Okay? We moved to the process of decision making. I mean, i feel like we’re sort of there, but it sounds like yes. Yeah, well, i want to go there next. Well, one thing about the process, there is a lot of choice in today’s world, you know. Example, in the session we gave was going to pick out aspirin. You know, when you look at the isle of there’s, a spare for migraines and for sore muscles. And for all the different reasons you might have an ailment. But ultimately, maybe it’s the same product on homes have thousands and thousands of our possessions um, there’s research that shows that actually having too much choice leads us to make poor decisions, and we’re also dissatisfied with them. So having in the process fewer, fewer good options, but just a few and fewer variables, okay, aaron is nodding a lot what you wantto into this? Well, i think that that ah, really translates well, when we’re thinking about that, the options that a lot of non-profits faces thinking, well, we can go in this direction, and we could do this kind of program are or use this kind of tactic, and what karen saying is is really like pairing that down and then making that decision and and the process of paring it down requires a decision as well. But i think a lot of us can agree that after a brainstorming session, it’s pretty obvious what some of the best options are, and then kind of taking a moment and taking a break, especially in, like, a working meeting where everyone has a chance to kind of reset and then that makes that actually makes the decision process easier on dh that is really profound that sometimes people just want to kind of powerthru and say, it’s, getting towards the end of the day like we just need to make a decision. And that’s exactly right. You just need to make a decision. So in order to do that, you have to kind of think about all of these, all of the influences that air that are wrapped up in that. Okay, okay. We still have some time together. You spent ninety minutes on this and in your session, so has it goes quick, here’s a lot more to say and have enough time that well, i mean, okay, the other the other part that we touched on in the session of the end was about creativity, because how can you choose the best option if you haven’t even imagined it? So part of it is developing some flexible thinking skills to, you know, be experimenting a little whimsical. And, um, you know, that requires sometime sometime in a calm mental state to do that kind of creative exploration. Eso we didn’t exercise in the session. We just ask everyone, what could you do with a marble? You know, similar to google? Asking what can you do with a pencil. Let’s. Try and see what we get. And some of the answers were like super unique jamie metoo, can you ask the audience? Okay, what can we do with the marbles? So, it’s kind of fun? Yeah. Some people went really practical right away. Like i could hold it. I could put it in my mouth. I could put it in my head. I could put it on the table on dh. Then other folks also kind of went more creative right away. So one of our participants said you could write a haiku about it which i she’s like it’s, not that left field, but but in the activity they had on an opportunity to work just by themselves, and then to share and build upon. And i think what was really apparent is that a lot of the folks who participated said that that once they connected and started to build upon existing structure, then it it was really additive and really complimentary. And they started to go in more creative places. Cam, you know, along this line we were talking about the complexity of problems today, and a lot of our problems are crossing borders and what is required? You know, i read something today about borderless leadership on dh you need a different skill set to address some of these problems. And so some of the things we talked about beyond creativity, where was critical thinking skills, you know, to look at all of the information coming at us and to be able to discern what is true and what is not true, what are some reliable sources, you know, and to be able to synthesise some of this information together with that, we talked about being able to ask good questions, because that helps you ultimately make a better decision if you can clarify things so it’s kind of a lost art, you know, we reward people at work for having the answer rather than having a really good question and children asked several hundred questions a day on. Well, you probably ask a lot as an interviewer, but i do know i’m also child, i’m asking a thousand questions today in our day today, life like way asked everyone in the room, like, see if you can keep track of how many questions you ask today is probably going to be very few. Ah, very good skill to develop question answering how does that help us make better decisions? Jamie well, for me, i mean, in our work with the inside education, we we ask a lot of questions, so we do environmental programs with our students on we talked about natural resources in the environment and in that is this critical thinking piece. And so i found that if a student asked me a question and i turn it back to the rest of the classroom or or answered them with another question that it helps start to kind of peel back the layers and let’s folks realize they start to consider the question from a different perspective. So i used the example in the session, you know, the first time a student asked me, well, what’s the difference between coal and charcoal. First of all, i couldn’t believe that i didn’t know the answer and it’s not a life changing thing, you know, like, i’ve gone so far without knowing that, and that was fine, but once i realised that it made me think to myself like, what else don’t i know about the world? Like, why don’t i know the difference between those two things and that’s the power of questions is that i know, like karen said in a professional life, sometimes if you’re if you’re in a meeting and and there’s questions about the reasoning behind the project that you’re working on, folks, khun bristle they can feel really defensive, but the power of asking a really good question is that it expands that horizon, and it helps you start to think about the bigger picture on dh then in that you’re able to think creatively and shift the paradigm and that that can only be helpful, you know? Okay, okay, we still have a couple minutes left. Let’s tease out. Come on. Ninety minutes in a session. Zoho back on non-profit radio listeners. Yeah, number. I’ll never have you back, bill it all related to the related to good questions. And critical thinking is really about how we learn on dh and, you know, if you notice someone’s thinking process, if if if there’s a bias or they they they have a distorted reasoning, you know, we get defensive when people point out our errors. So the best way to help people see that. They have maybe a flaw in their thinking is too created a learning experience for them to see the insight for themselves. Tohave a lightbulb moment an ah ha moment your mental mode shifts more easily when you discover it for yourself. How do you create this kind of moment? Teachers are good at creating this moment. What teachers are good you turned away from the mic, she said teachers were go to creating this moment on, i guess one of the ways that that i do that in a classroom with students is i you know, if we if we ask in opening question like what’s, a type of natural resource that we used to create energy, you know, some kids might have the answer right away and then others will be like lightning and it’s like, okay, so why did you say lightning? We don’t get electricity from from lightning, but why that? And then it helps them instead of saying no, you’re wrong because they’re they’re right. Lightning is electricity, but instead then we can kind of have a conversation about it, and then the student can come to the conclusion themselves organ can work through the process themselves and say, okay, wait a second that doesn’t make sense, there’s nobody running around trying to capture lightning so that we can have power in our homes, but in that it doesn’t it’s that experience, and i think it resonates more with a student. I mean, this is such a trivial example, but like karen said, if if there’s this this bias that occurs or this kind of error in thinking, i think everyone can relate to have someone if you have ah colleagues saying you’re wrong, the rest of the conversation doesn’t always go really well. So instead, you know yeah, you came you can and it’s not avoiding the conversation, it’s just helping them kind of see, because that’s, the only way that that folks can kind of overcome is that if they experience that process themselves, it can be really hard to try to convince someone that they’re wrong and you’re right. But by building that experienced by kind of understanding how our mind works and how thoughts are created, you can you can help increase that knowledge and expand the conversation instead of shutting it down and making it kind of antagonistic. Okay, okay. That sounds like a pretty good place to wrap up. Yeah, i think bernie’s copulation like you. All right. See, the closest to me is karen headed niimi, director of business and human resource is at the inside education society of alberta. And if the same society is jamie nelson who’s, an educator at inside education ladies, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. Thank you. And this is that i thank you for being with us. Twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thank you. Next week. I just don’t know you’ll have to trust me. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is a line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez on our music is by scott stein thank you for that scottie with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great kayman what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 5, 2016: Multichannel Fundraising Survey & Smart Email Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Peter Panepento: Multichannel Fundraising Survey

Which channels are earning nonprofits the best returns on their fundraising dollars and where will investment expand in 2017? Consultant Peter Panepento authored The Chronicle of Philanthropy’s report, “Fundraising In A Multichannel World.”

 

 

Tiffany Neill & Ann Crowley: Smart Email Marketing

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It’s one of the successful channels and it takes more than good copy. Our panel from the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference takes on the full process of a successful email campaign. They are Tiffany Neill, partner at Lautman Maska Neill & Company, and Ann Crowley, vice president of membership and online strategy for Human Rights Campaign.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have a listener of the week pulawski joshy. She messaged me that non-profit radio was one of her first shows when she started working in the sector and she loves my solitude video more about that in tony’s, take two so pulawski thank you, olivia joshy, thank you for being with us and congratulations on being our listener of the week. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I get hit with a bad case of mathos thomas iesus if i merely smelled the fishy idea that you missed today’s show multi-channel fund-raising survey, which channels are earning non-profits the best returns on their fund-raising dollars and where we’ll investment expand in twenty seventeen. Consultant peter panepento authored the chronicle of philanthropy is report fund-raising in a multi channel world and smart email marketing it’s one of the successful channels and it takes more than good copy. Our panel from the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference takes on the full process of a successful email campaign. They are tiffany neil, partner at lautman, maska, neil and company, and and crowley, vice president of membership in online strategy for human rights campaign between the guests on tony’s take two solitude and major announcements that i should’ve made last week. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling not your seventh grade spelling bees for charities, we be spelling dot com glad to welcome back peter panepento he’s, a freelance writer and principle for panepento strategies, a communications consultancy working with non-profits foundations and companies that serve the sector. He’s, a former managing former assistant managing editor with the chronicle of philanthropy, you’ll find him at panepento dot com and at p panepento peter panepento welcome back. Great to talk to you, tony. And glad teo. Glad to be back on the show. A pleasure. Pleasure. I love your name. Because it’s so musical and a literate ivo i just love it. Peter panepento i like saying very, very fortunate with monica. I didn’t like it growing up, but i love it. Oh, yeah. Now the obliteration. Of course. I love liberations. But you know it’s, just it’s. Very musical. I love it. And ah, little italian pun, eh? Bread pento is repent. So did you know you have? Surely i’m sure that you’ve surely you’ve translated your name before having you. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So repentant bread. I don’t know. Have you sinned? And you’re baking bread in independence or what? I don’t know what that means. But i think that for another podcast completely, i think so. You don’t talk about well, okay, then. That was in that. In that case, we talk about this for twenty minutes, then on multi-channel fund-raising gets about three. Okay. Um, you know, i love move your name. Okay. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. You know, i mean, it’s always great when we get martignetti together. It’s a great combination of names that’s true and don’t i love the way you pronounce martignetti thank you. Thank you. Um, so, multi-channel fund-raising this, uh, this report based on a survey tell us about this. Yeah. So i started working with the chronicle late last year to take a real close. Look at how non-profits and specifically fund-raising departments are making, uh, making sense and investing in the explosion and the number of channels that they have at their disposal for fund-raising aziz. You know, and i’m sure a lot of listeners know we’ve we’ve really seen ah, really expansion of a number of options that fund-raising shops have to talk, teo acquire and solicit donors, you know, from everything from email, social media, online’s mobile. I’m all of these new channels are giving folks a lot of options, and there were also rendering a lot of other channels are absolute, so we wait really set out to try tio talked to non-profits and survey them and find out how they’re shifting their reese is and which which of these channels are more most successful to them? And what we did was we ended up working with a survey firm, campbell rinker, out of california, and we got responses from nearly five hundred non-profits of all sizes. Hoo hoo provided some really interesting insights on how these spring and what they might be in the fundraisers. Did you do cement? Irv uses part of this too? Yes, once we got the results back, i i reached out and spoke teo quite a few fundraisers across the country, from both local small organizations to some really big national charities to okay, cool now, um the headline is that the the old school one toe, one solicitation, my voice just cracked like i’m fourteen again hyre is ruling in in terms of effectiveness, yes, and i would imagine it doesn’t surprise a lot of folks to know that even with all of these different channels that we have that the most effective and the most popular form of fund-raising still is the one on one half, and when we we spoke to fundraisers about you know which channels they used the most and which ones were most effective, we found that personal solicitations were not only the most still the most popular and more than nine out of ten charity say that personal solicitations are are a part of their fund-raising mix now, but that also that they are still the most effective in terms of r a y and in fact, seven out of ten organizations in the survey said they’re becoming more effective than in the past. So with all of these different channels that we have to communicate with each other now, and maybe even because of that, all of these channels exists. Um, one on one the you know, the art. Of a person asking another person directly that they, you know, presumably built a relationship with remains the most effective form of fund-raising now, this does this include online one toe, one like i’m we’re doing a, you know, a peer-to-peer campaign does that does that include this? Or is this familiar? Peer-to-peer separately and okay here was actually did very well as well. In fact, half of the organizations in the survey said that peer-to-peer fund-raising is becoming a more effective form of fund-raising for them than it has been in the past, you know, it it doesn’t quite have the same level of popularity that personal solicitations do, but you know, those peer-to-peer campaigns and and, you know, the act of having, you know, one donor askanase other donor for for support for their favorite charity is is has been and is continuing to be very effective, okay? All right, i got you. All right. So the so the personal solicitation we’re talking about is the old school calling on the phone or meeting and and making an ask right that we’re talking about personal, so okay, okay, alright. Cool. That’s the headline, but there’s a lot more. To cover s o, peter and i were gonna go out for a break. When we come back, we’ll cover all the rest of this multi-channel fund-raising survey. Stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love right this minute, and there are a lot from texas, so i wanted very much thank j c and joan, the hosts of the previous show. Twenty first century entrepreneur forgiving non-profit radio, a shout out that was very gracious of them and it looks like a lot of their texas listeners hung in there. Houston, austin, sugarland live listener loved to you, let’s. Bring it right here to new york, new york, new york, bronx, new york, queens, new york live listener love to all five boroughs, even though staten island and and who’s, who we missing staten island in brooklyn, are not not with us this minute. They certainly have been in the past. So extend the live love even to the to borrow is not represented and focus on the three that are bronx, manhattan and queens gillette newjersey live listener loved to new jersey that’s ah that’s fairly new i think charlotte, north carolina love north carolina live listen loved head they headed there and lincoln tonight oh, lincoln’s in north carolina also. Thank you. Cool love. North carolina, you know, i’m on emerald isle ah, three weeks out of each month, let’s, go let’s, go abroad. Mexico, mexico, monterrey, mexico live listener loved to you. That would be a good afternoon. So we would say, argast artis, when a star dies precisely romania, iran, cambodia live. Listen, her love to you, love, ah, cambodia, don’t think we’ve seen you before in southeast of asia. Welcome on biron and romania. Also korea, you know, always so, so gracious, south korea, always with us on your haserot comes a ham nida and china always always at least one from japan, although i mean china, although we’ve got multiple today, ni hao and multiple from japan as well, so grateful for that live listen love to japan, konnichi wa. Peter panepento we’re going to get to the rest, i mean, don’t forget the affiliate affections and podcast pleasantries, of course, but peter panepento is waiting patiently, their hearing, breathing heavily science coming durney live listeners does this clown has give it a rest already in romania, they know you were a man of so many languages well, so many listeners, yes, only a few languages, but but there’s, this this show cut across states, counties, continents, we’re everywhere. All right, um, okay, anything else you want to say about the personal solicitation being the most way we covered that you think, well, i think i think one one point i thought of during the break there was that, you know, as i spoke to some fundraisers about this, i think one of the takeaways on this is just the fact that with people being so tied to their, you know, mobile devices and so connected online that they actually really appreciate the personal connection mohr when they can get it, and that is actually, you know, working in the favor of organizations who are investing in, uh, more on the ground face-to-face fund-raising there, you know, donors really appreciate that x for personal touch probably now more than ever before, and that applies also to millennials. I’m finding that, um, the misconception there is a misconception that millennials don’t want to meet anybody, they just want to do all their giving and shopping online and, you know, they love events they love coming out now, i’m not sure about the personal solicitation meeting, i’m not i’m not going quite that far, but in terms of gathering’s face-to-face meetings, events, you know, as long as the thing is fun, they love getting out absolutely and a big thing for millennials to is authenticity and there’s nothing more authentic than you know, shaking somebody’s, hand and looking him in the eye and talking teo and that’s that’s a really i value that the millennial generation is bringing to the table on dh articulating quite a bed. And i think as that generation matures and they actually become more likely to be ableto give it higher levels, i think those personal solicitations air going toe going to continue to be really important for those dahna relationships i get so many invitations for just usually une male coffee or lunch coffee line you know from people from millennials twenty thirties on, and i’m happy to do it, you know? I mean, if they want to sit with fifty four year old that’s their life, you know? So what am i going? No, but there’s a misconception that we need to beat that down. And the last thing about personal solicitation, i see you have this outstanding graphic about future investment. And ninety nine percent of charities that answered are goingto either spend the same or invest more in personal solicitations next year. That’s absolutely right. And, you know, that is really on an important stand, i think. It’s it’s, um, almost, you know, almost surprising just how overwhelming that is and help those two thirds of them are actually planning to increase their investment. And in personal solicitations, nominally, they’re investing in that they’re going to be increasing their investment in it, which is which is really powerful. Yeah. Agree. All right. Excellent. Um, direct mail doing very well. Yes. Direct mail. One of the really interesting things that came out of this survey. Wass the shift in attitude toward direct mail. I remember. And we had some discussions about this. A few. Years ago to tonia, i remember that, you know, direct mail is is, you know, in danger getting phased out of some organization. Were you really wondering whether or not they should just kill the of the the direct mail letter in investing all digital? And what we’re finding is that direct mail is not only remaining the third most popular channels for multi for multi-channel investment, but that it’s also ah channel, in which organizations are starting to step up their investment again after years of scaling back in it. Um, we found that almost a third of organizations that they’re planning to invest more resource is and direct mail over the next year by-laws than they have in the previous year and and that’s actually at a faster rate than things like email in social media in terms of increased investment over the next year. Yeah, you have a quote in the in the study that its still a world where people were thinking print first and digital second in planning campaigns. Yeah, i mean, even with all of the increased investment that we found in digital channels, latto you know, direct mail remains really, really popular and builders still respond to what a particularly the more mature donors, too, you know, are used to giving that way and remain a very important audience for non-profits so important to recognize our our top two channels, our traditional what might have been called dinosaurs, you know, years ago as social media emerged, but they’re not dinosaurs, they’re not. If they’re dinosaurs are not extinct yet because they’re talking about we’re talking about face-to-face and direct mail? Absolutely. And and and not only are they not going extinct, they’re they’re making a bit of a comeback. So what does that make them? Uh, i don’t know what we have. Ah, was i mean, i know that maybe they were the share of ah share. Tio that’s. Very good. I just picked up one of her dvds a couple months ago with this she’s got his flamboyant pink outfit and the cover the dvd is, is it called a hologram? Or you you turn it, you know, you you turn in the light and you get different images of her. I think i picked up for a light. Well, sorry share. I picked it up for like, a book, but i had to i had to just have it for the cover. I loved it. I loved. Um okay, so maybe the share. Yeah. Um all right, so don’t abandon traditional methods. Ok? So let’s move into the more current and social media also strong also strong. Not always this strong, but organizations are really continuing. Teo double down on their investment in social media. Um, we sell that sixty percent of organizations over the last two years have put more resources into social media, and they’re reporting that they’re planning to continue to to to invest more in it. More than half of the groups in the survey said they plan to invest maurin social media over the next year. And this really comes despite the fact that for a lot of organizations, they’re they’re having a hard time really articulating what the return on that investment is. Yes. So they’re not necessarily seeing direct dollars coming in the door through social media. But they are still thing enough value and where they want to continue to invest more in it as a as a donor acquisition tool and dahna communication stole. I see ninety seven percent are going to spend the same or mohr you said, as you said, over half spending mohr and, like forty four percent spending the same why why is it still getting increased investment? Um and so much attention so much the share of resources if we are having so much trouble identifying r a y well, it’s interesting, i spoke to a number of organizations, including some really sophisticated groups like make a wish and and the less association who say that even if they can’t put a direct dollar figure on what’s coming in, they’re they’re noting that social media is a great channel of bringing new people on their websites and getting them to sign up for e mails and other things like that. So that’s one thing and other is that it’s becoming increasingly necessary for organizations, particularly on facebook, to get noticed, you actually have to invest in promoting their posts and, you know, actually, you know e-giving facebook and lincoln and twitter um essentially at you no at investment, tio have their post get noticed by doing that, not only are they getting more clicks and like, they’re also getting some better, some better metrics back from those platforms, in terms of how people are engaging with their posts to sow some of that, i think is out of necessity, you know, you can’t keep the same level of investment and get the same results on facebook if your charity anymore. So, you know, some groups are putting ad money against it, where in the past they weren’t doing that right? I hear a lot of frustration about facebook because the organic reaches so small now and so much smaller than it used to be, and and you do have to put ad money against it if if you want to keep that reach high. Yeah, it’s purely i hear a lot of frustration, okay? And another part of your message is that there are other ways of measuring success besides strict return on investment. So if you’re getting more people signing up your email list, if that’s an action that you’re asking for, you’re seeing more unique visitors to your sight may be to the donation page on your site, even if they’re not translating to donations there are there are other methods of measuring return on social media other than strict dollars absolutely, and that’s i think the really interesting point that and and way of expressing it, tony, is that, um, you know, it may not lead to a direct donation, but those those folks that you’re engaging with on social networks are, you know, that that might be their first weigh in the organisation for them to be communicating with you in other ways, and you may actually be getting success through some of the other fund-raising channels as a result of you making that initial contact with a potential donor on a social network. You have you have a graphic in the survey that that covers the different methods of measuring success besides the ones we’ve talked about growth over previous efforts, long term donorsearch al you net yield per donor. So those are some other method, good, right? Right? And, you know, in on top of things, just like revenue raised and donors acquired, which are, um, kind of the obvious wants some of these other ones are metrics that organizations are starting to use mohr regularly to try tio to figure out how these different channels are performing and how they can make better decisions about where to invest later, yeah. You know, it’s, just yeah, you have to be able to say more than, you know, you just got to be there, but i mean, intuitively you do because there are just so many billions of people on facebook on four billion or five billion or something twitter, i think is over a billion users, um, you gotta be able to say more than that, it’s just it’s a lot of people, and so i like that the survey got moves like seven different six different methods of measuring return, not just yet. I think that, you know, what we’re starting to see is that organizations are becoming more sophisticated and how they’re measuring how they’re measuring these different things, and they’re putting mohr effort into actually trying tio better understand, you know, dahna behavior and their own in their own efforts at acquiring and, you know, building relationships with donors, how would you characterize non-profits as a group, we’re generalizing in terms of technology, adoption, do you feel like they’re slow to adopt? They wait for the corporate side to do it? Or do you feel like they jump in a little quicker, but not fully understanding and maybe that’s ah, maybe that’s to their detriment. That’s an interesting question, and i think, you know, if if you when you asked that question five or ten years ago, i think the consensus in the non-profit community was that, you know, that we were slow to adopt and that we were really reticent to to invest in new things and trying new things with technology, i think that’s starting to shift, i don’t necessarily think that we’re, you know, as a zone industry, we’re going to be rivaling silicon valley in front of of our willingness. Tio tio, jump in feet first, things that we don’t really know online, but, you know, there’s been enough success out there, and there have been enough for thinking organizations that have in front runners on some of these technologies that that it’s, you know, that the case can be more easily made toe boards and too, and the top leadership in organizations that it’s worth experimenting a little bit with new things and trying them out, but seeing where they go and you know, the digital capacity is still probably not where it needs to be with a lot of organizations but it’s a lot deeper now than it was even a few years ago. Andi, you only have to look at things like the growth of of interest in the non-profit technology conference every year and just the amount of social media and online activity that’s happening across the sector now. Let’s, talk about mobile, you call mobile a conundrum. Yes, um, and this was an area where a number of groups actually dove in and tried to invest in mobile and text to give early on and found out that they weren’t really getting the results they wanted to. So they’re starting to scale back a little bit in in their investment and mobile. Now. So, you know, of the groups that are actually using mobile, only forty percent say that their efforts were more effective in the past year than they were yeah, in the past year than they were the previous year they’re started there’s a really, um, there’s a real struggle out there for organizations to really figure out how to best use mobile other than using it as a you know, kind of, i know of ah, you know, a modified way of looking at their websites. There, there aren’t a whole lot of really successful mobile e-giving campaigns that that organizations air finding to be useful, important to point out that only thirteen percent of the respondents are actually using mobile and of those of those platform, you know, you know, in talking to organizations for the reporting on this, we’re finding that groups are finding some pretty creative ways to use mobile, even if they’re not using it as a standalone channel. Um, i spoke tio, the top fundraiser at the quietness institute in rochester, new york, which is a which is a private high school there, and they have actually done away with their traditional phone, a phones where a woman i would gather and do a night of calling teo their classmates and i have kind of replaced it with almost like a texting and facebook base kind of outreach for using the same idea everybody gets together with their mobile phones that starts texting classmates that they knew and hitting those short donations or or messaging them through facebook on their mobile phones. Hill yes, she didn’t count that as mobile fund-raising but it’s still using mobile devices for for, you know in-kind of using the unique powers of mobile devices fund-raising and hybrid ing that with the peer-to-peer za peer-to-peer ask itjust happened, happens by text exactly exactly so in some cases, we’re seeing these channels, you know, maybe falling in one bucket, but but they actually utilize technology that might be included in another bucket of in terms of how they’re measured. Peter, we have just a little less than a minute left, and i want to wrap up with the management of all these multi-channel methods is now multi department that’s, right? That’s one of the other interesting storylines coming from the surveys we asked, you know which department is in charge of all of these different all of these different channels? And in which cases is that more than one? And you know, by and large, you know, the development shop is still very engaged with with all of these different channels, but, you know, depending on the channel, usually between a quarter to assist of them are being managed by multiple departments means that there’s some, you know, they’re both being held accountable for the results of of those campaigns and it’s becoming a much more collaborative. Environment now where the development of the development department really needs to be working a lot more closely with you, with communications, with marketing, with technology to make sure they’re being success. Peter panepento follow this guy on twitter for pizza because you’re gonna learn a lot at at p panepento and he’s at panepento. Dot com peter, thank you so much. Thank you. 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Here is my interview on smart email marketing, a very important channel from the non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference at the convention center in san jose, california second session of the of the conference and i’m with tiffany, neil, and and crowley tiffany city closest to me is a partner at lautman, maska, neil and company and and crowley is vice president of membership and online strategy for human rights campaign. Ladies welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Your session topic is what you mean. There’s more to email, more to mail than just writing copy for a fund-raising email so we’re gonna go way beyond just good copy out let’s see, tiffany, what you believe is the dahna shortcoming that a lot of non-profit or shortcomings latto non-profits have around email marketing. I think a lot of organizations spent a lot of time thinking about that first message that people are going to receive, and they don’t take a lot of time thinking about the total experience that that person is going to have once they choose to engage with that email so they don’t think about it in terms of the supporter, the donor who’s receiving that message, they just say, i am sending this wonderful email and they will just do exactly what i want there’s a whole process, there’s a whole process begins within gay exactly through your well written email. Exactly talk a little about subject line, etcetera, but yeah, we want the whole lot the whole process. Exactly. I mean, i can ignore every email in my inbox if i want to that’s my prerogative, and i think a lot of times non-profits just assumed because human rights campaign, which is a wonderful organization, is sending a message that everyone’s going to open it and respond. And did you feel that you needed some help around your email channel? I think we’ve been very fortunate in our ability, tio send out e mails and get people to respond, but that’s, mostly because our issue has really been on the front lines of of the, you know, what’s happening in the last few years, but i do believe it is getting harder to get folks to open our emails and engage once we’ve gotten past marriage equality, the response rates were starting to see a slight decline, okay? And you do have i mean, it seems like human rights campaign would have headlines nearly every day, if not way have refugee crises around the world, and i’m just scratching the surface you work there, but now there’s a lot to talk about. Yes. Although hrc only works on lgbt issues in the u s o okay, all right, so then refugee crisis worldwide is appropriately okay, very good. Still all right? So after marriage equality, okay, so then you didn’t have so many headlines drop correct? Yeah, just got a little bit more of a challenge, although right now we’re experienced experiencing a lot of states, trying to revoke a lot of the rights that have been voted in so it’s, still very pertinent and happening and that’s, our job is to get people toe, stay with us and engage in the same level that they had been. Okay, let’s, stay with you. And i’m sure we first approach are thinking about une mail campaign that were you want? Yeah, i mean, i think it depends, is it is it fund-raising or is it sit advocacy? And if it’s advocacy is that because something is currently going on right now that you need to engage your list in? And if the answer to the advocacy question is yes, then we always ask ourselves, what is the theory of change if we send out this e mail and we ask arlis to do something? What is going to come out of their action? So for instance, we are in the middle of trying to get congress, in particular the judiciary committee, to hold a hearing for the vacancy of the supreme court, and we’ve been asking our list too directly email mitch mcconnell and hold a hearing so there’s a clear theory of change there. So if it’s fund-raising and you guys, you know, organizations feel like they need to send out e mails to raise money is which we all do then really think about what the messages and his tiffany alluded to earlier, not only what the message is initially, but what the visuals are, what comes after they send in money? Is there a proper thank you, there’s? Just various steps to the process. Okay, again, a long process, but sounds like starting with what is your goal exactly? Call ultimately there’s some call to action that’s, right? Is it? Fund-raising isn’t volunteering write a letter. Writing is calling. Raise it. Signing a petition? Yeah. Calling the governor. Yeah, that that’s exactly right. I mean, we really stop and think about every situation and if something is needed and we feel like we can make a difference in particular in a state, for instance, then then we’re going to do it. Okay, okay. All right. So, tiffany, after we’ve got our goal set, where do we go? Where we go from there? Well, i think where i mean, really where it starts from us. Who is that message going to be from? And i think that that sender is something that, especially with hrc, we spend a lot of time thinking about in testing different senders to make sure that when someone’s looking at a bunch of emails in their inbox, they want to open this it’s it’s from somebody that they feel has something to tell them that they need to respond to sew that it’s that’s the first part is to figure out who’s this message going to be from okay, who it’s from and i guess maybe this is subsumed in what you were saying and but who’s it going to? Yeah, we’re subset of our constituency is going to get get this. All right? We’ve got we’ve got our center. We’ve we’ve tested and testing of course, important throughout this process. How does that work if you’re trying to listeners tryingto inaugurate a campaign. How do you test them and kick off at the same time? Well, it’s, i mean, these work together it’s great with a sender. Because we can send ten percent of the message out and send half of that ten percent one centre and half of that ten percent another center in whichever sender gets more opens. Then we send that out to the rest of the constituencies. So those kind of things we contest really in real time so that we know we can get the immediate response subject line forward, subject lying falls in that for the preview text. The thing that people see in their inbox before they actually opened the message. Those first few words, all of those things we test on the outbound message, especially with things that are time sensitive. We want to get those test results back quickly so that we can implement it. And if people need to act quickly, we get we get to them right away. We spent a minute on something that’s. A little bit of a peeve. Which is seeing in that preview to view this message better, right? If it’s not rendering right in your mobile version. Click here. Right? Is that a terrible waste of landscape? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I know what it’s called. What? The preview pain. Okay, and actually we in our presentation today, we actually touch on that because i don’t think it’s one of those things that organizations are moving so quickly, maybe they haven’t thought about that the experience, but for us, hrc our list is younger than a lot of other organizations and therefore there’s ah hyre usage of their mobile when they’re reading our emails. So we do everything mobile optimized, figuring that our folks are reading it on the phone. They’re moving quickly. We’re going to say it in the preview text what we want them to do or what the issue is, and at that point, they’re going to decide to open it and go take the next step or not, when you have your session, would you please tell the audience that this ticks me off? Well known, everyone will say, tony is very annoyed by that. Come back with one thirty four and render your your support for a proper preview checks but it’s one of the things that hrc does well is there’s an army of testers, and every tester has a different mobile device. So what may work on apple may not work on android, so, tony, if you have a different phone, yours may break up in someone else’s won’t. So we do all of that testing before the message ever goes out to consider, you know, even at work, someone was workout of outlook and some of us work out of google and things were under differently and while maybe annoying, i’m always the outlook girl, so i’m always like, it looks funny on that look and, you know, so for the seven other outlook, users were going toe we’re going to see it, right? Okay. All right. What? What else? So let’s, stay with this a couple seconds. What else can we easily test? Got sender subject line preview text? What else? Simple detect. The other thing that we test is in the call to action the words that appear on the button. We’re asking people to do something and really wants to test. Click here. We’re calling it the nineteen nineties tests, but we’ve found that saying, tony, you know, act now versus just act now versus, you know, change, change this do their job. And then i see more organizations using chip in exact and contribute exactly, and those air easy things, the test and you can test it on small number and then see how many people take the action that you intended them to and then roll that out said earlier, we’re testing to maybe just ten percent of the way debate test quantities frequently, but yes, i mean, in general it’s, about ten percent of the total, okay, seems like a good relationship. You’re going back and forth? Yeah, frequently on. Okay. Absolutely. Yes. Next to each other. It’s civil. Yeah. No, no, no. Tiffany and her team at law men are terrific. And we really view them as extensions of the human rights campaign staff well and to the point about subject lines and is frequently a sender of the hrc emails. And one saturday, there was an e mail from an and it was an official hrc email. But the subject line was i know it’s saturday, but and we all open it very quickly because we assumed it was work related and something? Yeah, it worked. It worked. It really was an accident. You know, it was everyone just forgot that that was going out that day at ten a m on saturday and that that was the subject line. All right, the best stuff comes from improvisation, it’s straight, solid improvisation. All right, so we’ve done some simple testing and what’s our next what’s our next step in this campaign? Well, i’m a big believer in the visuals, so if you can have a picture in the call out box, i’m also big believer, frankly, in the call out box, i feel like the call out box is the next step. After the preview text, you get somebody to open it because the preview texas either intriguing enough or important enough, it feels to me that most people then go to the call out box, and so if you’re looking at the email, the call out box can be in the center for us, it’s often to the right and it’s literally a boxed section and it’s it’s in my mind. It’s the headline it’s the action in a nutshell we want you to do x because of why and it’s it’s a shortened version if you want to read more there’s the whole email text that you can read and learn more about what the issue is. But the call out box is going to tell you what we want you to do. Why? And it’s gonna have ah, click it’s going to have a button to or link to click and immediately do the action or send in the money. So this is for somebody who’s, maybe just previewing. They read this cold outbox, but ultimately it’s the same action as if you got to the middle of the full tech that’s a bottom of a check that’s, right. Same action. And you sew for us too. We have a link or button often throughout the email throughout the call out box. I mean, we really make it easy for people to immediately we take action versus going through the entire thing. Do we have statistics on how popular the call out boxes versus going by showing further into the text? We would be able to know the amount of klicks from the call outbox versus the other clicks. Yeah, we could measure it. I don’t think we have. Just you found the flaw in the progress. You’ve done some consulting work this morning that we shouldn’t tell that it is a new toast way. Not like that. We’ll put that on the testing list meeting to the session. Exactly. Your audience would not have heard. You know, if you had not been here before. Yeah, before this, before the session. All right. No charge. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Through with no it’s. True it’s. Good point, actually. Very gratifying. Doesn’t happen often. Melkis. Okay, let’s. See, uh, all right. So we get past our email were also obviously testing different body of the text right now that this is more that’s. More elaborate. Yeah. It’s. More elaborate. And we it’s funny. We’ve tested some copy things, but often what will test is copy heavy versus image heavy things that are are more substantial. That are gonna move the needle a bit more. We try not teo. I mean, there’s tests that are interesting. And then there’s tests that we want to do that are really trying to get people tio to move the issues forward. And so we haven’t tested a lot within the copy itself. Unless it’s specifically the call to action that’s interesting now, because this is what i think people focus on the boat they dio so their focus is misplaced. It’s okay to say, well, i want i want people to approve we want people to improve, i’ll just speak for us. I mean, for hrc, i don’t think that is where our focus should be, which is why it’s not there for other organizations. It may be different, and we have tested for other organizations that may have a cause or a mission where they’re trying to figure out their messaging and in that case, figuring out how they want to state their case for support that’s a critically important tests to do and then something that should probably be done over several email messages where you have control groups getting a similar theme, or if you have a mission that has several different components. You spoke earlier about international work trying to figure out what part of the world people care about that’s, something that is worth text testing heavily with hrc there’s really don’t appreciate you bring up my one thing i said wrong well, see and overly latto that, with my brilliant way, gave you the brilliant oil pockets. No, no, you gotta remind people that i begin. What it does not get the i was right hat. So yeah, but that i mean, for some groups that’s, critically important for hrc that’s. We have so many other things past, so, yeah, okay, yeah, i would say that’s. True, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio i d’oh, i’m adam bron, founder of pencils of promise. So now let’s move next stages. We’ve we’ve refined our email as best we can. Nextstep is in a landing page. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to speak to what retested test every landing pages. You know, it’s interesting. I mean there’s, different landing pages. So for hrc, if it’s asking for a donation, they’re landing on a donation page and we spend a lot a lot a lot, a lot of time and energy and testing and thinking through exactly what they’re going to see when they get to that landing page. One of the air, the donation page. Because one of the things that hrc does very effectively is trying to get people to make monthly gifts. So we try to look at the donor experience of saying what’s going to encourage me to sign oppa’s a monthly donor. So we test what the text is. We test what numbers, aaron, the different donation options. We test it and there’s a brand new donation page for hrc. So that whole process, if it’s an action, then it’s a landing page where you’re asking people to take that action, and in the that case, we just try to go for clarity, making sure that it’s very clear what you’re being has to dio and as an said, making sure that theory of changes prominent so that people understand when they take that action there, having a positive impact on the issues they care about landing yeah, i mean, listen, first off, it’s tough to get people to open your e mails that’s number one so now you’ve gotten them to open it. You’ve gotten them to read it, you’ve gotten him to click to the landing page or to the action page or to the asian page, you have them so you don’t want to lose him at that point, so it in our minds, if they’ve gotten through to that point and let’s, say, it’s a fund-raising email make it as simple and as quick as possible to just have them, you know, hit the button and charge the credit card don’t spend a lot of times reiterating everything you’ve just said in the email and if it’s an action page, same kind. Of thing clear concise we’ve laid out the case for you. This petition is going to go to the governor for x, y and z reason click here so, you know, if you already got him where you want him, you’ve gotten them to take out the wall don’t oversell it basically, yeah, well, i make it consistent with the experience. I think one place where some organizations fall down is they’ll have that go to just a generic landing page or a generic donation page that doesn’t in any way reflect the experience they were having, so it won’t have i mean, we worked to make sure that the headlines are the same as in the emails they received in that sort of thing. So that’s, one of the reasons that we put the session together is because we were looking at the industry of things that people could be doing better than hrc does really well and go from there, i feel so strongly about consistent, consistent conversation with the reader that if we offer, say, a premium in the email for certain amount let’s say it’s, thirty five dollars and then they land on the contribution page. And it doesn’t mention it again, or we don’t start the thirty five dollars, unlike guys, we’ve just said this is going to cost thirty five dollars, then they land on the donation page, and we don’t make that reference again. So for me, it really is about the user having authentic conversation with your reader with your list and having a consistent, authentic conversation reassuring, yeah, i read this on the last page, but now it doesn’t say it anymore. Exactly five dollars like today and up in the wrong painting. Am i going to get what i wanted? It’s it’s, very it’s really important. Okay, okay, consistency, conversation. Um, after landing page, we have ah share page or some kind of post post post action post action and that’s, especially one of the other opportunities that hrc takes advantage of is if if the main action is to get people to sign a petition or call their congress person or something like that, there’s always a follow-up action where they’re given the opportunity to give because, as an said, if you’ve captured someone so deeply around this issue that they took the time to read the email to click it to fill out the petition they are most likely to want to embrace you even more and make a gift so that’s a really opportunity to encourage people to give that a lot of organizations miss out on and if it’s a donation, once people have donated, we want them to feel good about it. So we give him the chance to share the issue or to sign a petition or take take another step so that the experience continues. You always say, thank you, obviously, andi. So if this is tiffany said if they’ve taken an action, you know, get an email that said, okay, great, your actions been sent to the governor or whatever it is now, would you like to do more? You know, here’s an opportunity to give a donation. It’s not heavy handed, it’s just they’re given the opportunity many people don’t, but we’re often surprised at the amount of money that comes in from a post action shopped donation page. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pleased, very pleased. Yeah, and it doesn’t cost anything extra to add that step. Really? So so i never i never thought they were that successful. I guess i’m not obviously, don’t go by me. Yeah, and it depends on the issue. I mean, for some people, certain issues, they’re goingto be more important in the argon and not only take the action, but then donate for others. They’re just they’re comfortable with just taking the action, but but always give them the opportunity because you never know. Okay, you you’re spending some time in your session to talk about on order responder? Yeah, what are we talking about? First, i’m gonna keep you out of jargon jail, but i’m the one who said it. I don’t get you let you get me out of jail. Is that message that people automatically get through email once they’ve taken an action or made a contribution? And ah lot of email providers are set up to kind of send those auto respond messages and some organizations. All that auto respond message says is, thank you for taking an action with the human rights campaign. We think through what that says so that it is, as an says, consistent with e action, they just took it follows the experience they just had and a lot of times that will also give people another chance to act they’ll get a chance to do something else when they get that latto responder that that message that they get right away and his and said it always says thank you, yeah, usually so the order responded immediate, this is the immediate follow-up yes, right, right, okay, we didn’t talk about including video mentioned all about images. What about use of video in the email? Are you doing that more often as it isn’t working? Not in not in the email directly because it affects the affects rendering? I believe right now can it hurt delivery box is going to show up what people say on mobile, it doesn’t, because the hrc has found that they have when they actually embed the video within the email, the all of the open rates click through rates that sort of thing fall just because of potential rendering issues on different people’s individual technologies. So what we do instead is yes, so we’ll have an image of a video and with a narrow so it looks like you’re hitting the play button, but it actually takes you two in our case youtube, which is where we’ll and embed the video and that all that way they can see it and it’s a quick transition transact transition from that email to the video. Okay, and then within that video, we way try toe have words so that if people are viewing it without sound, they can still get the essence of what the piece wass eso last year, for example, at the end of the year, hrc had a very successful year. Last year, marriage equality was it was done by the supreme court. There were a lot of good activities, so to give their members the chance to participate, members were encouraged to send in their photos of the year and to make a urine video. So we thought, i don’t know, i thought maybe a couple thousand people. I don’t know how much you thought would do it. I thought maybe two. Three thousand. Yeah, i didn’t. I didn’t expect much, but we got seventeen thousand pictures. I mean, people were so excited to be a part of this. It was really i got phone calls from members saying i sent in my pictures. Could you please include them? I got permission from the photographer to include them. We got an ambassador calling, we got boardmember is calling. I mean, this ended up being so important, it really surprised me. So then when we put that video together, we had words throughout it sort of highlighting what the different groups of photos were, but we really let the photos speak for themselves. But the overall campaign, we had to really think of three because there were so many more pictures than we thought there would be. We created a siri’s of photo albums on facebook and then had other emails wherein post actions or things like that people were encouraged to then go to social media sites see the rest of the pictures because clearly we couldn’t put seventeen thousand pictures on a video or it would just be like a michael bay movie, and you were able to make it very, very inclusive. Yeah, yeah, it was clear to us that to not include i mean, everyone took it so so seriously that we wanted to honor that that feeling for them and include him wherever we could. All right, we’re gonna we’re gonna leave it there. Great. We’re gonna leave it with inclusiveness, okay? Like for human rights campaign? Yes, perfect. Now that twenty martignetti learned what human rights campaign does. I don’t mind it’s. Okay, if i do it different. But that xero durney neil isa, partner lautman, mascot neil and company and crowley, vice president membership in online strategy at human rights campaign again, ladies. Thank you very much. Thank you. Think, stoney. Sharon. Thanks, tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference. Thank you so much for being with us. And thanks to everybody at and ten the non-profit technology network next week, master google adwords and master your decision making. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by we be spelling not your seventh grade spelling bees for charities, we be spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Scotty, how come you weren’t listening today be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

BOOst Your Major Gift Asks With Planned Gifts

Image courtesy of Pink Sherbet Photography, Creative Commons license
Image courtesy of Pink Sherbet Photography, Creative Commons license

A strategy to improve your major gift solicitations: include planned gifts.

When you ask a prospect for a major gift, include a planned gift. It can be as simple as a bequest in the will; as middle-of-the-road as a charitable gift annuity; or as high-end complex as a charitable lead trust.

You’ll have to beat off the gifts with your broomstick!

The Planned Giving addition adds a dimension to your solicitation. Now you have more to talk about if your prospect balks at the outright ask. You can reduce the outright ask and add more to the planned gift.

It’s best if you don’t add dollar-for-dollar because the planned gift won’t mean cash to you until the donor’s death. The exception is a lead trust, but those are quite rare. Instead, add to the planned gift the future value of what you’re not getting outright. Here’s a future value calculator.

You’ll have more to negotiate around. The negotiation dance is one witch is critical after your ask.

The added planned gift can also act as a straw man. It’s harder for your prospect to turn down both the major gift and the planned gift. Gutting the planned gift out of the solicitation–like a pumpkin becomes a jack-o-lantern–makes it more likely the major gift remains intact.

The greatest success I’ve seen with this arises because you’ll have more variables in your solicitations. There’s more to talk about and listen to.

Talk half as much as you listen and you’ll have bewitching successes with your major gift solicitations.

P.S. This is part of October’s Nonprofit Blog Carnival, Major Gifts Tricks and Treats, hosted by Claire Axelrad.