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Nonprofit Radio for August 7, 2020: Donor Surveys & People-Powered Movements

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Crystal Mahon & Christian Robillard: Donor Surveys

Make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying. Crystal Mahon and Christian Robillard talk principles, best practices and goal setting. Crystal is with STARS Air Ambulance and Christian is at Beyond The Bake Sale. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)

 

 

 

 

Celina Stewart & Gloria Pan: People-Powered Movements

This 20NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Celina Stewart from League of Women Voters U.S. and Gloria Pan with MomsRising.

 

 

 

 

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[00:02:40.44] spk_1:
on welcome tony-martignetti profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Welcome to our first podcast only show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of in Texas itis if you inflamed me with the idea that you missed today’s show Donor surveys. You’ll make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard talk principles. Best practices and goal setting Crystal is with stars, Air ambulance and Christian. Is that beyond the bake sale? This is part of our 20 and TC coverage and people powered movements. This 20 NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Selena Stewart from League of Women Voters. US and Gloria Pan with mom’s rising on tony steak, too. Planned giving accelerator were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is donor surveys. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference and 10 made the excruciating decision to cancel the non profit technology conference. But we are continuing virtually. You’ll get just as much value. We don’t have to all be close to pick the brains of the expert speakers from From N 10. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Go to tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Crystal is manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance and Christian is founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the Bake Sale. Crystal Christian. Welcome. Welcome to non profit radio,

[00:02:44.19] spk_2:
tony.

[00:02:45.00] spk_0:
Thanks, tony. Great to be here.

[00:02:46.42] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure to have both of you. You are both in ah, in Canada. Crystal. You are in Alberta and Christian. Remind me where you are.

[00:02:55.54] spk_0:
I’m in Ah, beautiful, Sunny Ottawa, Ontario.

[00:03:00.02] spk_1:
Ottawa. No other capital? Yes, in

[00:03:01.23] spk_0:
your nation’s capital. Not be not be disputed with Toronto. Who likes to think that the capital

[00:03:29.66] spk_1:
I know well and many Americans think it’s either Montreal with Toronto? Yes, but, uh, Ottawa Capital. All right. I’m glad to know that you’re both well and safe. Um, and glad to have you both with us. Thanks. Um, we’re talking about donor surveys. Your your NTC topic is ah, Dorner surveys your untapped data goldmine Crystal. Why are surveys a data goldmine?

[00:03:45.11] spk_2:
Well, we have the fortunate launching a survey. We’ve never done one prior to 2016. And when we did it, we were amazed at what we found. So we learned a lot about our donors. Education preferences. We made money, like, usually made that on that. And I’ll talk about. We actually ended up learning a lot about I’m getting prospects. And turns out that there were a lot of donors that we had no idea name Justin there will ever interested in the will. So there was a lot of revenue like hidden revenue that we were finally getting access to you. So that’s are where that line is moving your wits, but it’s preparing to you.

[00:04:23.61] spk_1:
Interesting. I’m looking forward to drilling into that more because I didn’t plan to giving fundraising as a consultant on sometimes asked by clients about doing surveys. So I’m interested in what you’re doing as well. Um, and and you’re getting gifts. You said you’ve made money back from them. So people do send you gifts of cash along with their surveys.

[00:04:53.69] spk_2:
Yes. Like this year we get. Because last year, 2019 are stars. Allies there, maybe $300,000 And that all the you people have been found for giving what? We’re looking at dollars. So it’s you cannot do a survey to seem like you. Point?

[00:04:54.30] spk_1:
Yeah. Did you say billions? With a B?

[00:04:57.21] spk_2:
No millions and

[00:05:08.78] spk_1:
millions. Okay, the audio is not perfect, so it almost sounded billions. So I want to be sure, because I’m listeners have the same question. Okay, Millions, millions is still very, very good. Um, Christian? Anything you want to head to about Why these air Ah, such a gold mine for non profits.

[00:05:14.81] spk_0:
I mean, besides the fact that you’re using data, obviously, to reinforce certain decisions and Teoh highlight certain wealth elements, I would say in terms of your sponsorship potential, I know a lot of organizations are looking more so into the corporate sponsorship corporate engagement side of things. And I think with your donor surveys, you could really reveal a lot around where people are working there levels in terms of positions within a certain company or organization. And that can lead you down some interesting pass from a corporate sponsorship perspective.

[00:06:05.94] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, your, um your description of the workshop said that make the most of the donors you already have. And it sounds like you both obviously are going there. Is there anything you want to add about sussing out the value that’s in your that you don’t know? You have among your current donors?

[00:06:31.20] spk_2:
Well, from our perspective, like it’s given us an opportunity to get to know our donors better in terms of what? What are they actually interested in learning about the organization or why are they choosing given that allows us to tailor messages, just be a lot more personal with them and act like we really know that was supposed to them just being a number. This is an opportunity to really cultivate that relationship and just continue bring them on war.

[00:06:41.08] spk_1:
Okay, um, is most of your content in the workshop around as practices for surveys? Is that what we’re gonna be exploring? Mostly

[00:07:05.94] spk_2:
Christian feel free to jump in and say that we were looking a lot of fast. Her best practice, then also, case studies. People would have some tangible examples how to actually launch one with consider. And what would actually need to do once they got

[00:07:24.46] spk_1:
OK? All right, well, let’s, um let’s start with, Like, where? Where do you get started? Who, Who who were the best people to send surveys to our What types of information are are you finding our most responded to or what types of questions are most responded to? How can you help us sort of frame? Ah ah, an outline of what we were to get started.

[00:07:55.62] spk_2:
Well, Christian and I talked a lot about building the proper spoke of your surveys of figuring out. Why exactly are you? What do you try to find out? And once, you kind of I guess you were down exactly what you’re trying to learn, what you’re trying to cheat, That sort of helping bigger. You need to actually reach up to what? The audience. You need to know that before.

[00:08:06.93] spk_1:
Okay, So, starting with your goals, what was the purpose of the darn thing? Yes. Okay. Okay. Um Christian. You want to jump in around, you know it’s starting to get this process started.

[00:08:15.29] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as crystal, I were kind of building this piece at whether you’re talking about more of a philanthropic, focus for your surveying or whether you’re talking about more of a corporate sponsorship focus of it. You only want to ask yourself, I never different questions before you even get going things around. What do you ultimately want to know about your donor base? Or about this particular audience population that you’re ultimately looking for? More information on? Why are you doing this in the first place? Is, Is this more responsive? Isn’t it more of a proactive type surveyed that explore new avenues? Would you ultimately need to know? I think that’s an important element to focus on Is not asking everything but asking the right things? Who do you need to ask? So who is the actual population that you’re targeting at the end of the day? What would you do with the information? So don’t just collect information for information, say not that that’s not important. But what’s the actual actionable pieces for that? And how are you gonna protect that information? I think with today’s sensitivities around around data privacy, it’s really important for charities and nonprofits to Stuart that data as they would any type of gift that they ultimately get.

[00:09:27.71] spk_1:
Yeah, in terms of the data stewardship that that may constrain what you asked as well, because now you have, ah, conceivably a higher level of security that you need to maintain

[00:09:32.60] spk_0:
absolutely tony and even just in terms of sensitivities, of phrasing, certain questions, and that it’s important for you to think about how you phrase certain things and how intimate your ultimately getting. And if you do get that intimate, like you said, how do you protect that data? But also, what’s the purpose for collecting that particular piece of data side from? Well, it might be a nice toe have someday, instead of this actually contributes towards our bottom line.

[00:10:00.13] spk_1:
You’re doing surveys around corporate sponsorship, right? That’s the example you mentioned. So you’re getting to know where people work so that you might use that information for potential sponsorships.

[00:11:02.31] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, when you look at sponsorship, ultimately it it’s very much a business transaction. If you look at how Forbes just define sponsorship. It’s very much the cash and in kind fee paid to a property, a property being whether it’s ah terrible run or some type of adventure conference in this case, um, in return for access to the exploitable commercial potential associate without property. So anything of any other type of exploitable commercial potential, which is the most buzzer and definition you possibly could. If you think of any type of advertising medium, whether it’s TV, radio print, you want to know ultimately cruising your audience. And one of the best and most effective ways to do that is to conduct some type of survey to really tease out who are some of your very specific or niche audiences. Cannabis a niche. So it’s a bit of a cringe for for us up here in the North. But, uh, having a survey to really tease out who are who’s in your audience. And some of the more behavioral psychographic demographic features of that audience are particularly important, toe have to really make a compelling case toe corporations looking to use sponsorship with your organization,

[00:11:20.18] spk_1:
the, um what four matter using Christian crystal, I’m gonna ask you the same thing shortly. What? How are these offered to people?

[00:11:28.33] spk_0:
Yeah, so we so in the experience of I’ve high, we usually use ah surveymonkey survey of some kind that allows for a lot of cross top analysis to be able to say that people who are in between the ages of 18 and 29 this particular set of income, they have these particular purchase patterns. They care about your cause, toe ends degree. They, um, are engaged with your cause or with your property and whether it’s through social media or through certain print advertisements or whatever that might be. And we usually collect around 30 plus data points on all of those on all those elements, ranging from again behavioral to the demographic to psychographic Teoh. Some very pointed, specific questions around the relationship between your cause and the affinity for a certain corporation based on that based on not caring for that cause.

[00:12:39.89] spk_1:
Yeah. So you said collecting around 30 data points, does that? Does that mean a survey would have that many questions? Absolutely. Okay, now I’ve heard from guests in the past. May have even been ntc guests. Not this year, but, you know, the optimal number of questions for surveys like five or six or so and people bailout beyond that point.

[00:13:58.37] spk_0:
Yeah, and and usually before I had actually sent out a survey of that magnitude, I would agree with you. Tony and I agree with most. I think that the important differentiators one is that you frame it as it’s very much for improving the relationships and the ability for the cause properties, whether that’s your run, your gala, whatever that might be to raise money and usually the audience that you’re setting. That, too, is very receptive to that. I think you want to frame it also as your only collecting the most important of information. And you’re also looking at ah again like you’re incentivizing in some way, shape or form. So usually when you tailor it with some type of incentive Buta $50 gift card opportunity Teoh win something like that. Usually people a lot more or a lot more receptive. And in the time that we’ve done surveys, whether it’s in my my past days, consulting in the space or now doing a lot of work with charities nonprofits, we sent it to tens of thousands of respondents and get a pretty a pretty strong response rate and a really nominal, if negligible, amount of an unsubscribe rates. So people are not un subscribing from getting those questions, and in fact, they’re answering a lot of them and an important element, as well as making them optional. So not forcing people to house to fill out certain pieces but giving them the freedom to answer whatever questions they feel compelled to. But when you’re doing it for the cause, people are pretty are pretty compelled to respond to those states of questions.

[00:14:01.77] spk_1:
Okay, Crystal, how about you? What? What format are your service offered in?

[00:14:31.04] spk_2:
Did you both offline and online? So our donor base tends to skew a little bit older, though for us, a physical mailing is absolutely I’m only deals online, burgeon for, I guess, other parts of our donor base that are different. The graphical, just based on that person’s preference, is giving them that opportunity. But what we did find is that in terms of our offline responses, we had a lower was off rate of responses to the survey, but exponentially more donations coming through offline as online and then for online responses of the online certainly had a lot more responses to be online. Survey. There are fewer donations, so I found that there was an inverse relationship there about that very thing.

[00:15:41.08] spk_1:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness This is still a front burner issue. You have got to get your loan forgiveness application in. Wegner has the info you need. Their latest free wagon are explains the state of P P P Loan forgiveness. What is forgivable? What documentation do you need? How to work with your lender? Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource Is and recorded events. Now back to donor surveys with Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Do you, ah, subscribe to the same opinion about the length that that could be up to 30 questions? In a survey, a ZX Christian was saying,

[00:16:17.66] spk_2:
We personally have a practice of you tiki bars between five and 10 questions. And sometimes we even Taylor that we know that some of these interested in particular programs we might take out a certain question. But in something else related specifically to them, for their isn’t variability in the surveys, but generally quite short, but I do agree with Christian for sure in terms of really framing the purpose of the survey and you to the questions around this is the whole purpose of this is to build a relationship with them and better serve them and get to know them better. And I think that really prince, And then you also

[00:16:23.41] spk_1:
just gonna ask about incentivizing, Okay? Something similar, Like drawing for a gift card. Something like that.

[00:16:33.91] spk_2:
Yeah. We get a star’s prize package. We wanted to do something about these decisions. You couldn’t get something but elsewhere. So yeah, way start for merchandise. So that’s

[00:17:18.04] spk_1:
okay. I’m gonna thank Christian for not having a good, uh, good video appearance because, you know, I’ve done 10 of these today, and they’re all gonna be all the video’s gonna be preserved. Except this one. Because Christian, um, as a very extreme background is really just a silhouette ahead with headphones. Really? Little I can see. But I’m grateful because my background just fell. I have a little tony, I have a tony-martignetti. You watched other of these videos which you’re gonna be available. This tony-martignetti non profit radio. So the easel you know, what’s that for? A form core, you know, sign. And it was behind me. It was, and it just fell while Crystal was talking. So thank you, Christian.

[00:17:29.66] spk_0:
It was just so surprised that you could ask 30 questions on a survey and get some type of degree of response.

[00:17:38.43] spk_1:
Only it shook my house that I’m

[00:17:40.42] spk_0:
30 data points. What madness is this? I’m

[00:17:58.70] spk_1:
so a gas man. Yes. And then also the fact that you the two of you disagree. Um, all right, so but I’m shouting myself, calling myself out as having a flimsy background lasted through. And that’s through, like, seven hours of this. I

[00:17:58.85] spk_0:
love it. Also, we don’t necessarily disagree, but I think different surveys serve their different purposes. So I agree with Crystal that in that particular case, you only need descends. One that has 5 to 10 questions rise in this case, your public sending it to in a slot strip case, you’re probably sending it to a larger population of people. And you only need a certain amount of people to fill it out.

[00:18:18.73] spk_1:
Crystal, I had asked you, and you probably answered, but I got distracted by my collapsing background. What? What kinds of incentives do you offer?

[00:18:40.21] spk_2:
We offer stars prize pack. So it’s stars over two nights that we want to talk or something a little bit different other than my gift card that they could get through any other. Yeah, it’s so different Angle

[00:19:00.18] spk_1:
personalized two stars. Okay, Okay, Um, now, was yours specifically Ah, planned giving survey, or did you just have a couple of planned giving questions? And that’s where you discovered this data goldmine of future gift. And all the wheels that you found out that you’re in was

[00:19:27.84] spk_2:
it was it was not specific to plan giving, so it was more just a general survey. And then we did have a question about plan giving and that we were stunned. But subsequent years we kept asking mad, and right now we’re sort of in the middle of doing that whole. I’m giving strategy and trying to really build that out. Now that we know that there is this whole core people that are interested in this. So it’s really opened up the water opportunities President organization after all.

[00:19:43.23] spk_1:
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. All right. So you learned from the first time this is you’re in a lot more estates than you had. Any idea? Um, let’s let’s talk about some more good practices for surveys. Crystal, is there something you can one of two things you want to recommend and then we’ll come toe go back to Christian.

[00:19:53.81] spk_2:
Yeah, One of my major things is that if you’ve been asked a question, you have to know where you’re going to do with that data after the fact that you were people just ask the question to ask a question for whatever reason. But then they don’t action. Anything out of it to me is very important that if our donors are gonna spend the time actually breathe through your survey, respond, mail it in or submitted online, that we actually do something that that information is the weather bats killer. It’s a messaging or changing communication preferences or whatever it is you’re asking us to do, you were tell has I think that’s so important that you have to have all a plan once these losses come back. And what are we gonna do with them? Who was going to take action? How are we gonna reason with this? How are we going to use information.

[00:21:15.77] spk_1:
I think of date of birth is as a good example of that. If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna develop a plan to congratulate someone for their birth on their birthday each year, then that could be a valuable data point. Um, but if you just, you know, if you’re just asking because you you don’t have a purpose, you just interested in what their ages? For some vague reason, then there’s no there’s no value in asking. And if it is just to follow up, if it’s just to know their you know when you want to send a card, maybe you don’t need the year. Maybe just need the day in the month. But if there’s value to your database for knowing their age and you would ask for a year

[00:21:23.72] spk_2:
exactly how he felt down, what do we need to know? I really asking

[00:21:30.90] spk_1:
why, Kristen, you have a best practice you want to share.

[00:21:33.84] spk_0:
Yeah, I would say Consider the not just the population size that you’re not just the population that you’re serving, but also the representative makeup. So if you know that your database is predominantly on more, the senior side of things, but you’re getting a disproportion amount of more individuals who are on the younger side of things. In terms of respondents, that’s something important that you have to take into account. So the makeup of the actual population is is more important. I would argue that the amount of responses you could get a crazy amount of responses. But if it doesn’t represent the population that you’re serving and that who make up your donors, it’s it’s not gonna be valuable dated to you. I remember one time we had a ZX instance for an organization wanted Teoh do a survey for sponsor purposes, and in other cases, it’s been from or donor specific, like, I will just put it on on Facebook or Twitter or something like that. It’s not necessarily your population is not necessarily the group that you’re looking that you’re actively engaged with a fundraising perspective. You get information to the otherwise and then obviously reflect on that and use that. But be really clear about the breakdown that you need to have in order to make the information, actually, representative of the rest of your database,

[00:22:47.24] spk_1:
Um, what kind of response rates what’s what’s a decent response rate to, ah to a survey?

[00:23:06.51] spk_0:
I think it depends what type of server you’re sending. I will let Crystal speak to this more, but I’d say if it’s philanthropic. Eikenberry on the sponsorship side of things you’re looking for a response rate that coincides with the 95% confidence interval with a 5% margin of error. Let’s get market data to calculate that there’s a bunch of big captain complicated formulas that we probably have all repressed from our time in. In statistics Citizen that in university there’s ah company called Surveymonkey that actually has a calculator for its. If you go to the Surveymonkey website, you can actually just plug in a what the sample side of what the actual size of the database you’re sending into. And you can plug in what confidence interval that you want. And then what margin of error that you’d like, and it will pump out a number of a minimum that you need to have. I would say that’s a good starting point. But again, as I talked about before, make sure you have the representative break up breakdown of, ah, who’s actually within your audience reflected in the survey results and don’t have it disproportionately skewed towards a particular demographic that might be just more inclined. Teoh, respond to surveys.

[00:24:25.04] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, Crystal, Anything you want to add about the confidence, it’s different, but yeah, I withdraw that. That doesn’t make sense for you because you’re doing individual philanthropic surveys. So each response you get is valuable. You find out that someone is interested in planned giving already, has you in their will. That one response has has great value. Yes. Okay.

[00:24:39.74] spk_2:
Our purpose of our surveys a little bit different. We don’t worry so much about that, but I actually meeting how like that in your mind. Reaching out to you?

[00:24:44.24] spk_1:
What? What kind of response rate to use for the crystal is still you know, these things? Things take time and you’re doing Some of them are offline. So there’s postage and printing, et cetera. What kind of response rate do you consider good for? For a NH effort like that

[00:25:40.43] spk_2:
in terms of financial reform? Three. So don’t verify that for us, a response to the survey doesn’t necessarily mean a gift, and it gets to the survey, doesn’t necessarily mean that they responded to a number. Yes, we usually eight or 86%. But in terms of actual response to the survey, we’ve seen his lower 2% for the highest 7% a year of channel. So either way, like we have, quite like we have quite a large database. So any of you to be So get this information, your father.

[00:25:42.89] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, for your online surveys. Crystal, are you using surveymonkey? Also, did you say

[00:25:48.80] spk_2:
use a couple leased surveymonkey last year? It is very user friendly. What? I would caution people are always print about whatever price package designed for because, like you discussed for our surveys a big focuses financial tournament. So we needed to price plan that involved being able to redirect right from surveymonkey page to our donation form. So you had to be really mindful things like that. So in some of the basic packages, they don’t write redirect donation form in that you can’t Do you have a really negatively impact your

[00:26:27.94] spk_1:
Is there another online tool that you like? Also you?

[00:26:52.64] spk_2:
I used Teoh from cold response. Ter. We’ve there be start a sweetener somewhere in Europe, and they were very good, though there are some limitations is well with them in terms of what the packages offer. But bring out we’re using serving Look, you know what was sending out like, for example, looking at surveys. This any surveymonkey already of our to be rich 8th 1 So that’s what we’re using.

[00:26:56.04] spk_1:
Okay, how about you, Christian? Is there another one besides Surveymonkey that you could recommend?

[00:27:22.01] spk_0:
I I think it just depends on what you’re looking for. A tony. So if you’re looking for a lot of, let’s say, more qualitative answers, I’d say even a Google form would would be more than would be more than acceptable. It really just depends on what functionality want to get out of. I used every monkey pretty religiously, just cause it’s like Crystal said. It’s very user friendly. It has the functionality that I need, and it’s and it’s relatively reasonable in terms of in terms of price point for what you get. It’s also gonna depend, and it’s up to you to do due diligence on what types of functionality you need. You need to integrate with your database for other software. Do you need certain functionality. Do you actually know how to use a lot of those things? Is there gonna be support and again, like what? What are they going to do with your data? Like, do they have access to your data? Whether it’s metadata or otherwise, Are there other rules of jurisdictions you have to consider with that data privacy? So I use every monkey by lots of considerations to make.

[00:28:04.85] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. Thank you. And Kristen wanted to, uh why don’t you lead us out with some Take us out with some, I guess. Motivation. Closing thoughts like to end with?

[00:28:05.97] spk_0:
Absolutely, I would say from a sponsor perspective, whether you’re a large organization or small organization, the riches during the niches. So to do good sponsorship, it requires good data, and it requires those 30 plus data points. But whether you’re a big group or a small group, you can compete at the same scale, especially with the amount of money that’s being spent on cost sponsorship over $2 million a worldwide, which is no small amount of money. That’s that you can get access you whether you’re $100,000 a year, order a $1,000,000 plus requires good data. So make sure you’re collecting good data. Make sure you’re clear on what do you want to use your information for? And, uh, not just the diligent in ah, making training step, but the data is actually protected.

[00:28:50.64] spk_1:
Okay, um, I was I was I was gonna let Christian end, But since the two of you have such divergent purposes, which is fabulous for it’s great for a discussion Divergent purposes around your surveys. Crystal, why don’t you take us out on the on the filling topic? The individual donor side?

[00:29:51.64] spk_2:
Yes. So play for discussing. Don’t be afraid to fundraise just because survey doesn’t mean that you can’t make money off of it. People are supporting you enough that they’re willing to fill out the remainder onto you. They may be going to donators alone, and then I’ll help without it said you have to know why you do what you do with that information. It’s really important in terms of respecting your door time and back. That there giving you this information, you need to be able to use it and sort properly and safely. And then last may I just say please, please please test your survey before you actually sending out Senator One other part fans are other people that are not in the midst of building the surveys that you can find out. You phrase things appropriately. You’re actually wanting what you want to functionality is appropriate. I think that’s just so we don’t have one chance of finding out. So just make sure that

[00:30:01.59] spk_1:
okay, thank you very much. That’s Crystal Mahan, manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance. And with her is Christian Rubber Yard founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the bake sale crystals in Alberta. And ah, I’m sorry, Crystal. Did I just say Crystal? Yeah.

[00:30:21.02] spk_2:
You know, yesterday

[00:30:23.48] spk_1:
I say, Chris Christie, Mr Just all I know is in Alberta,

[00:30:25.30] spk_0:
you know, we don’t make it easy on your tony

[00:30:36.35] spk_1:
on, and I got through 25 minutes. So well, and I know it’s a lackluster host. I’m sorry. This is stuck with in the Christians in the capital city of Ottawa. Thank you so much, Christian Crystal. Thank you very

[00:30:40.72] spk_0:
much. Thanks, tony.

[00:33:31.93] spk_1:
Thanks to you for being with joining martignetti non profit radio coverage off 20 NTC, the non profit technology conference Responsive at the conference by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain will get you a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us now. Time for Tony’s Take two. I am still very proud to announce the launch of planned giving accelerator. This is a yearlong membership community that is going to get your planned giving program started. I’m going to give you exclusive webinars Exclusive podcasts. Yes, beyond tony-martignetti non profit radio, there’s gonna be the exclusive podcast for accelerator members. Small group asked me anything. Sessions over Zoom I’ll have Resource is like templates and checklists. All of this is to get your planned giving program started. You’ll join for a year. I will keep you filled with exclusive content, and you will get your program started. I promise I will make planned giving easy, accessible and affordable. You can check out all the information at planned giving accelerator dot com. If you may not be quite ready for membership, you don’t want to look at that quite yet. You just want to dip your toes in the water. I have a free how to guide about getting your planned giving program started to see a theme. Here, you see, you see the consistency running through here. This is not This is not accidental. Please, please the free how to guide you Download that also at planned giving accelerator dot com, that is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for people powered movements. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference. Of course, the conference was canceled, but we are persevering. Virtually sponsored. A 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. Selena is senior director of advocacy and litigation at League of Women Voters. US. And Gloria is vice president for member engagement at Mom’s Rising Celina. Gloria. Welcome. Hello. I’m glad we were able to put this virtually. It’s good to see both of you. Um and I’m glad to know that you each well and safe and in either D. C or just outside D. C. Selena, you’re in d. C and Gloria. Where you outside Washington Gloria

[00:33:46.60] spk_4:
I am actually near Dulles Airport. So, you know, some people commute from here, but because Mom’s rising is a virtual organization, I don’t. And so when people ask me for lunch, I’m always like, Okay, it takes a little bit more planning. I have to bend. I have to get my body injustices.

[00:34:18.24] spk_1:
Okay, Um, you’re NTC Topic is a revolution is coming. Top tactics, build people powered movements. Um, Selena, would you get us started with this? What? What was the need for the session?

[00:35:27.88] spk_3:
Well, I think, um, I think one of the things is right now it’s all about people power. You know, there’s everything is so politicized right now, and I think that there is often a conversation about how people are involved with what government actually represents or what the government is representing. So I think that that’s really, really important. Um, we also saw, like, a 2018 mawr voter turnout, more voters turning out to vote and things like that. So I think that that also is a part of us people conversation like what is compelling people to participate, even mawr, or at a greater extent in their democracy. But all of these things kind of work together to figure out. Not only do we have people engaged now, but what is important. What just community is more people become engaged. How does how does our definition of our community and communities in general changes? More people are included and participating all of those things. So I think that we’re at a very interesting and crucial moment in time. And so people powered and people involved movement. It’s it’s, I think it’s always happen. But it’s just a coin phrase. I think that’s especially prevalent right now.

[00:35:56.69] spk_1:
Good, Gloria, even though participation is is very high, were also largely polarized. So how do we overcome the opposite ends of the spectrum to tryto bring people together and and organize?

[00:36:01.33] spk_4:
Are you talking about everyone or are you talking about voters?

[00:36:17.39] spk_1:
Uh, well, I’m talking about the country. I don’t know. I don’t know whether I don’t know where the people are voting, but I’m talking about our political polarization. I don’t know if they’re necessarily voting. I

[00:36:20.97] spk_3:
I talked about voting, so I probably threw it off a little bit. Glory. They act like I’m asking for

[00:37:19.89] spk_4:
complication only because, like some of the most talented and I think unifying on politicians in recent memory. For example, Barack Obama did not succeed in unifying all of us, right? So there are some segments of our citizenry that will just not do it. We will not be able to come together with them. But I think that for, um, people who really do want the best for our country and who are open minded enough, Teoh want to hear from other people who have different, you know, slightly different ways of looking at the world. It is possible to do it, and that goes back to what Selena was saying about people powered movements. I think that one of the reasons why that’s become more more of a catchphrase is that you know, we are in an era of information overload. We are in an era of polarization and not believing everything that we’re seeing on the Internet and in the news. And so being able to actually really connect with people on the ground, in person, over the phone, but directly and not going through the filter of social media or news movements is it’s increasingly important, and that will be one of the main channels for us to unify as many people as possible.

[00:38:16.42] spk_1:
So we’re talking about creating these both online and offline, right? Um, people powered people, centred movements. Um, how, Gloria, how do we want nonprofits to think about or what we need to think about in terms of doing this, organizing, creating these these movements,

[00:39:11.07] spk_4:
I’m First of all, it’s about inclusivity. Okay, So, um, at least from where we set Mom’s rising and me speaking on behalf of Monster Rising right now, we want to make sure that whatever we do and if it’s the most people and harms no one at all, if possible. So that’s one part of it. How we speak, how we communicate to make sure that what we’re speaking and how we communicate does not reinforce add stereotypes that creates divisions. Okay, that’s one way, another way, not way. But another thing to consider are also the tools that we’re using. Are we using your people are on different kinds of communication tools. Some people only do Facebook. Other people only do on email on dhe. There also is like text messaging there. All of these new community communications goes towards coming on and being on top of the different tools. Superb, warden, Because we need to meet people where they are. Um, because you’re just a couple of thoughts.

[00:39:36.49] spk_1:
Okay. Um so sorry, Selina. So we’re talking about diversity equity inclusion. Let’s drill down into a little bit of, like, what do we What do we need to do around our communications that is more equitable and non harming?

[00:39:57.72] spk_3:
So I think that’s an important question of us. Definitely something that has been injured in the leaks work over the last, I would say five years, but more intentionally over the last two. I’m sorry. I

[00:40:01.52] spk_1:
mean, he’s sorry. Whose work?

[00:42:09.00] spk_3:
The league. I’m sorry. I always refer to the League of Women Voters with us. Okay. Colleagues were led. Sorry. Boats that are full title is just too long for me to keep saying so. I just prefer to see Oh, I got you know, d I is very, very important for us. You know, our organization has historically been older white women. We’ve also always had members of color. But I don’t know that they were always at the forefront. So for us, our work is really centered in two questions and everything that we’re doing, who’s at the table and who should be at the table who’s missing. So I think starting all of our conversation in the efforts that we’re doing with those two questions allows us to center on our work in diversity, equity inclusion and also use our power as, um, people who have had access to legislator stakeholders, et cetera. How did we use our power and in a way that allows access of inclusivity for more people. So I think that that is really important and something that DEA diversity and inclusion work. It’s hard just versus It’s not easy, you know it. It gets very uncomfortable a lot of times when you’re talking about privilege, patriarchy and all of the talk about as it relates to d I. But it’s so important to get comfortable being uncomfortable and having these conversations that the only way I think that we can start to build a bridge towards unifying Um, CA music is at the end of the day, we may be politically, but at the end of the day, we all share many of the very same values which is historically united this country. Like right now we’re in the midst of the Corona virus. The Corona virus doesn’t care where the Republican Democrat black, white, female male does. It doesn’t matter. I’m at the end of the day, we all have to make sure that we’re doing what we can to be safe as individuals. But also our actions greatly impact the people around us. So it’s more of a It’s more of a community mindset that’s required or to tap this down. So I know that that’s like a little offset. All shoot from what we’re talking about. But I think it all placed together in some way, shape or form.

[00:42:30.65] spk_1:
Okay, um, Gloria about for moms rising. And how do you ensure that your communications are equitable on dhe? Non harmful?

[00:43:35.32] spk_4:
Well, Mom’s Rising has very intentionally built an organization that tries to bring different voices to the table. We are intersectional and we are multi issue, and so from our staff were very bad person, many, many different ways, and from the way that we choose which issues to work on, we also take into consideration which these are being impacted and how we communicate about those and then the way that we campaign is that our campaigns are always overlap. And so there is different people within the organization as well as a partner policy partners from different issue areas. They help us that our issues and the way that we communicate with them to make sure that you know you are we’re not communicating in a way that that that excludes communities, reinforces bad stereotype pipes and raises red flags, make make, make people feel bad ways that we don’t understand because of where we individuals. Campaigners. No. So everything we do is very thoroughly betters through different filters.

[00:43:48.70] spk_1:
Okay, so you re vetting. Yeah, please. Yeah, so, you know,

[00:44:55.97] spk_3:
I totally agree with what glorious said. I think that’s really important because the league is also multi issue and kind of has that you have to compete when you multiple issues. You sometimes have toe think a little differently about how you present yourself on each issue in orderto not negatively impact the whole set of what you’re trying to accomplish. And so for us and the communication speaks, I’m expressly is thinking about whether it’s appropriate who’s the appropriate messenger when we’re communicating so Is it appropriate for the league to be a leader in this space, or do we need to take a step back and be a supporter? So I think that’s one of the things that’s very important for us. Communication wise is we’re figuring out what is what space are we gonna take up in the communication in space and how we’re gonna communicate this issue and then the other pieces Who’s talking? Who is the person that we’re putting in front actually speak about a particular issue and is, Is that the right person? And are they speaking from the lens that’s most appropriate for that particular issue that’s gonna be impacted most as a result of what you’re saying or doing? So I think that’s very important. With Gloria lifted up

[00:46:14.78] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships, the world runs on them. We know this turn to is led by former journalists, so you’re going to get their help building relationships with journalists. They’ve been there, they know how to do it. They know what the pitfalls are and they know how to do it wrong so they will steer you to the right way to build relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field. They specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got but loads more time for people powered movements with Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. How do you manage the conflicting issues? If you know, I guess it’s because there are issues where you have a large constituency on one side of one issue. But something else may seem contrary to that to that large constituency. A different issue that you’re taking a stand on Is that Is that my understanding? Right when you say, you know, potential issue conflict?

[00:46:51.33] spk_3:
Well, when you have a 500,000 members and supporters and you’re in every congressional district, everybody can agree on on how to approach an issue. But what grounds? The league is our mission. Our mission is to empower voters and democracy. Power people defend democracy. So I think as long as you stay rooted in what your chin values statement is that you can find some reconciliation across, you know the most seemingly divergent issues Okay,

[00:46:58.68] spk_1:
climate change That I think would probably be a good example. I was just

[00:47:11.43] spk_4:
I was I was gonna add, okay, that just to step back a little bit. The one thing that I am super super proud of, um, is that a toll east for progressives? I think that we’re actually pretty consistent in about our agreement on your shoes. We may have different levels of intensity and what we agree with, but I think they’re very few conflicts. We may not agree on how to get somewhere, but we all agree on where we want to go. Okay, So in that way, I rather feel, at least from Mom’s rising standpoint, we rarely get. I can’t even think of a single instance where we have conflicts because we’re not agreeing with each other or with policy partners on the most important thing where we’re heading.

[00:47:45.75] spk_3:
So I think that’s a difference, because are the league is it’s not left or right leaning were kind of way. We have members who are both conservative and liberal. Yeah, have some of that conflict more in that. But I think you’re absolutely right. Do we all want the same things and a healthier, more vibrant democracy. Absolutely. So you have to find some common ground in that space. But we definitely have members who are who want to handle things. One way, versus the other. We have to find common ground.

[00:49:02.57] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s the challenge. I was trying to get it. Yeah, okay. It helps. At least it helps me to think of an example like climate change. You know, some. There are some people who don’t even believe that it’s it’s human impacted. And there are others who think, where decades behind and in our inaction Teoh Teoh, reverse the effects of human induced climate change. So, um, it’s Ah, that’s that’s quite a challenge. Really. So, um Okay, Well, where else? Well, should we go with these people? Powered movement ideas? You you, you to spend a lot more time studying this. So what else should we be talking about? That we haven’t yet. I

[00:49:02.65] spk_4:
would actually love to hear from Selena how the league is dealing with. I’m doing your work remotely.

[00:49:10.59] spk_3:
You guys are already virtual. This is like, No, no sweat for you guys, right? Well, you know,

[00:49:37.30] spk_4:
I mean, we do have, you know, our plans range from virtually all the way down to the grassroots. Right? And I think especially for organizations like your Selena, we share the, um, the common goal this year of border engagements. I am very sorry I opened the door. Family a letter out. I’m

[00:49:43.14] spk_3:
very sorry. Okay.

[00:49:45.25] spk_1:
All right. So, you know, um, terms of remote working, but yeah, but how it relates to this topic of people power.

[00:50:59.86] spk_3:
Yeah. So I think that’s really, really important. We’re definitely so it is one thing to convert toe er teleworking, right? That’s one thing. But when your work is so much advocacy, um, and especially the leaders on the ground who are doing voter registration, which requires you to be on the ground talking to people, you know, that has shifted our work. So one of the examples that we have because we have our people power fair mass campaign, which is basically trying to get redistricting reform for across the country and a positive waste that we don’t have another situation like we had in North Carolina where you’re from, tell me and also and Maryland subs we wanna we wanna make sure that you know people are represented appropriately, but a lot of the states that were working in they have a signature collection campaigns going on right now. So how do you do signature collection when you can’t actually be within three or six feet of people? So now many of our leaks air converting to digital signatures and going through their legislator to make those adjustments that they can still collect signatures and meet that need, et cetera, Our love. We have a lobby core, which is 21 volunteers that goes to the hill every month. Obviously, with the hill being also teleworking, it created what we thought might be a barrier. But now our lobbies are doing virtual coffee meetings on Zoom just like this and having those conversations with legislators, legislative staff and all of those things. So I think that the Corona virus has forced us to do our work in a different way. But it’s also being great to innovate and be creative and do the work that people love just in a different way. So we it’s not perfect. I don’t even want to make you think that this is perfect because it’s definitely not. But I think that there’s a lot of positive energy about doing our work and finding ways to do our work in different ways.

[00:52:27.38] spk_1:
Which, okay, is thinking creatively. I for our for our listeners. And I don’t want to focus just on Mom’s rising and legal women voters us. I want them to recognize how what we’re talking about can be applied by them, how they they, what they need to go back to their CEOs or whatever vice presidents wegner And what kind of like discussion items they need to be putting forward at the organization is not now thinking about in terms of, you know, again, people power revolution is coming. Yeah, you know how how how can our listeners helped create it?

[00:53:21.55] spk_3:
I think just becoming involved, like when you’re talking about people powered anything, it’s really about base building. And for me, the goals of base base building are always to grow. A base of volunteers who have a shared value of some sort and you’re coming together in orderto makes the progressive movement on that. It’s also about leadership, development, communities and constituency who turn out who are players in this issue or what have you and then putting issues to the forefront. So I think that wherever you is, what do you value? What’s important to you? You could be a simple as Hey, there’s a pothole, my street that has been fixed in the last year. Can we come together as a community and really talk with our local election officials about making sure our streets are in a position that’s not gonna record cars or have someone get endangered in some way? So I think it comes down to, as on an individual level, what is important to you. What do you value and finding and connecting with those people? Also, that you something similar? And what do you want to change? What is it that you’re trying to change or that would make your life better? And who were the people who can support you in getting that done?

[00:53:55.15] spk_1:
That’s consistent with what you said down an organization level to the same. You know what? The core values, that’s what that’s what drives all the work on, brings people together finding that commonality around, whether it’s the pothole in the street and the individual level.

[00:54:01.45] spk_3:
Whoever whatever. Here, whatever.

[00:54:08.59] spk_1:
Jim Yeah, Gloria, What? What’s your advice for how people can contribute to this revolution.

[00:55:16.50] spk_4:
Um, I think that right now we’re all sitting in our homes and we’re rethinking the way that we do our work. And even as individuals, we’re rethinking the way that we are doing our activism. You think that a very important message right now for activists personally and for organizations that organize activists and try to recruit and build the base, is that now is not the time to step away. Now, more important than ever, it is important to stand top of the issues, to sign those petitions, to speak up and to share your stories, because I will give you a very, very specific example. Right now, Congress is negotiating, arguing over all of these different critical needs in the Corona virus relief bills. While Mom’s Rising has been on the forefront of trying to influence those negotiations. And the most powerful weapon we have are your stories, people stories, what’s gonna happen to your child care center that has to close down what’s gonna happen to a domestic workers who suddenly don’t have a paycheck? Um, paid family leave. This is something that a signature mounds rising issue. We’ve been working on luck forever ever since. Our founding is one of our signature issues. But now, because of the stories that we have gathered and we’re hearing from our members about the need for pay leave and the fact that if we had had paid leave all this time that the burden of Corona virus would have been much lighter this is something that we’re powerfully bringing to the negotiating table. And we’re actually seeing We’re going on paid leave. So all organizations and all individuals, whatever issues that you’re working on, do not step away, continue to share your stories because those stories have to be brought to the negotiating table for policy. And that’s the only way we’re gonna get the policy that we need.

[00:57:30.53] spk_1:
Okay, We’re gonna leave it there. That’s Ah, quite inspirational. Thank you. That’s Ah, That’s Gloria Pan, Vice President, member engagement, engagement at Mom’s Rising. And also Selena Stewart, senior director of advocacy and litigation. The League of Women voters. Us though Gloria Selena. Thank you very much. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, Tommy. Pleasure and thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 ntc were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us next week. An archive show. I promise you, I’ll pick a winner If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this music is by Scots Dying with me next week for not profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for May 24, 2019: Small Dollar Donor Power & Donor Retention

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Sara Kerrigan of ActBlue and Carrie Mann of Friends of the Earth

Sara Kerrigan & Carrie Mann: Small Dollar Donor Power
Small dollar donors are shifting the digital fundraising landscape. Our panel reveals basic principles of running a sustainable program online. They’re Sara Kerrigan from ActBlue and Carrie Mann with Friends of the Earth. (Recorded at 19NTC)





Laura Cole and Paul Habig of Sanky Communications

Laura Cole & Paul Habig: Donor Retention
Now that you’ve got new donors, learn how to keep them with you: Avoid retention pitfalls, leverage technology and track the right metrics. Our teachers are Laura Cole and Paul Habig, both from Sanky Communications. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with Skip Tosa Maya sis, if I got infected with the idea that you missed today’s show Small dollar donor power Small dollar donors are shifting the digital fund-raising landscape. Our panel reveals basic principles of running a sustainable program online. They’re Sara Carrigan from Act Blue and Carry man with Friends of the Earth that was recorded at 19 and TC. And don’t a retention now that you’ve got new donors, learn how to keep them with you. Avoid retention pitfalls, leverage technology and track the right metrics Our teachers, our Laura Cole and Paul Hey Big, both from Sang Ki communications that’s also recorded in 1990 si on Tony’s Take two. Be a good American. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text NPR to 444999 Here is small dollar donor power. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 ntcdinosaur. What that is it’s a 19 2019 non-profit technology conference. You know that we’re in Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me. Now are Sarah Kerrigan seated next to me? Email Director Attack blew and carry man, Deputy Director of digital membership and advocacy at Friends of the Earth. Carry Sarah. Welcome. Thanks. Carrots are looked upon with Welcome. Welcome. Both of you. Welcome the non-profit radio. Okay. Your topic is the largest group of untapped charitable givers. Small dollar donors. Um, Sarah, what do you feel like? Non-profits don’t fully appreciate about small dollar donors. Why do we need this session? Yeah, well, I think it’s really important. I would actually say that non-profit They actually do really appreciate small dollar donors that I’ve that I’ve seen on. Really? The our goal of the presentation was just doing power non-profits to take the case to their boards or their directors and say like, Hey, this is actually like a really good use of fund-raising on. And it’s also a really good way to engage people move their mission forward. Sometimes it just takes somebody to really, like, dive deep into email on to dive deep into those fund-raising strategies for people to feel empowered to take that business case, you know, straight to their organizations. Okay, carrot. So I assume you’re working with ActBlue. Yes, we are. OK. Were you the person that Sarah just referring to? I went to your leadership and said, this is worth investing in. That was before my time. But it’s carried on. Yeah. OK, so so glad that your predecessor did that. All right, All right, So where’s the best place to start? Well, uh, if we’re if we don’t feel we are capturing all our potential in small dollar donors, where What’s the first thing that we need to have in place before we can be effective with the campaign? Yeah, that’s a really good question. Eso actually email is the driver of the vast driver of all contributions. So, really, all you need is an email program, andan email list and just a message, and you can easily write your own emails and send it out to your audience. Of course, you can use an act, Liu wink if you so choose, Um, but, yeah, it’s really, really easy to tap into small dollar donors. Really, all you need is an email address and names, and then you can go ahead and get started. Okay, you don’t have to screen for who the best the best prospects are. Well, now, I mean, there’s also there’s other different acquisition strategies that you can absolutely use. But if you’re just starting from ground zero like really, all you need is an email list, a new email address, and you can get started with your own fund-raising. Okay, Alright, Carrie, how how successful has been at Friends of the Earth? It’s been huge for our programas a hole. When I first started in front of the Earth, we had about 225 2 150,000 people on their email lists, and it was raising a pretty negligible portion of our budget. Now we have about one point 8,000,000 people on our list, and it’s raising over two and 1/2 $1,000,000 a year. All right, all right. That’s, uh, explosive. How do we define what does? Does the definition of small dollar donation Barry from organization, organization or you feel like it’s all pretty consistent, Like we’re talking like 15 $2025? Is that Is that what friends of the Earth that you define small dollar when you have these conversations? Yeah, I mean, really, we aren’t going to turn down $1,000 contribution if somebody wants to do that online. But for the most part, we’re seeing people giving and more of that $1,000 30 to $50 range online on DH. Just giving, sometimes more than once a year, three or four times a year. And yeah, that lower dollar level. Okay, All right. So, Sarah, I have I have small dollar on my T shirt. How does ActBlue define what’s on my T shirt? Yeah, sure. So a small dollar donorsearch buddy who makes a contribution of 250 or less? That’s pretty much the standard that we use, but basically the whole goal about engaging small dollar donors that that goes beyond raising money. I mean, these are people who are marching their protest ng they’re volunteering, and they’re really pushing. Non-profits causes forward and That’s really the message that we want to drive home, that it’s just like it’s not just about like fund-raising. It really is about building of movement, a powerful movement of people on DH. Usually that massive movement of people that we see are small dollar donors because they’re the most engaged. Okay, Okay, um, you’re in your session. You talk about some basics principles of running a sustainable small dollar program. So let’s start with uses were way. Stay with you. I should say, uh, what, you got to start with some basic principles. Yeah, sure, I’m the number one thing. Is this treating your supporters with respect? I mean, we live in a world right now where there’s just so much content, like were saturated with content, especially is Carrie and I are both email professionals. It’s just so important to really look at your email program and say, like, you know, we really should choose a tree. Donors with respect there’s a lot of email programs out there that kind of focus solely on fund-raising and bottom line in our in our position is we really need to build like a sustainable program again, where we just create content where people feel like you know, they want to be on the email list and they want to donate and they want to give and they want to get their time, money and energy towards the mission. How do we show that respect? Well, there’s lots of different ways Way don’t hold off on Don’t hold back on non-profit radio listeners. Yeah, How do we How do we show it took off a couple ways? Sure, eso being honest with people about why you’re asking him to give money is very important. I’ll use an example about recurring donations. Something that we have found really successful is when we just asked people like, Hey, like, can you give a monthly $3 donation to support our cause? A lot of people shy away from that because like, Oh, my gosh, I’m asking somebody to give 35 $10 a month. That seems like a pretty big ask, but really, just being honest and upfront about what you’re doing and why it’s important is super important. Also, being timely, being like relevant to the moment is super important, like people want to be engaged on. People really want Teo hear from your organization, right when the moment happens, thinking about like family separation of the border. They’re just so many people who wanted to be involved and so having a way to talk directly to supporters. Eyes really important. So I was a honest, timely And of course you need to add value, Tio. I mean your email program. It’s definitely a two way street, right? We’re not just sending mathos ostomel just of fund-raising really has to add value to the support of this border has to feel engaged into your mission on DH. That’s another great way that email like, serves that purpose. What is what is friends of the Earth do carry to show this respect that Sarah’s talking about? Yeah, So if you think about what motivates a small dollar donor to give, it’s not necessarily because they care about the specific organization. They’re really trying to advance their values through through there giving, and that’s the way they see themselves as being able to make change in the world. So as we’re fund-raising from our small dollar donors, we want to give them the credit for the work the organization can do. Those aren’t our victories. There actually are donors victories when we win a campaign, it’s because people gave us $5 out of their Social Security checks, and they deserve the credit for that. Like that’s not ours. So how do you share that specifically What? How does friends of the Earth share that? Sure that impact. Yeah. We always use a lot of you language in all of our messaging. So we never say Friends of the Earth And this we say you did this. We want to make sure the word you appears in almost every paragraph in an email whenever we possibly Can you say if you save this or you change the law? Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Okay. It’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of first Impressions. How to combine strategy analytics and Creative two captive to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition. It’s still up on the listener landing page. How do you make that smashing? First impression donor-centric keep them. This is how you keep them coming to you. It’s at Tony dahna. I’m a slash pursuant with a capital P make the capital P for pursuing this week. Now back to small dollar donor power. Like, how often do you communicate with you? Share the impact with somebody who’s let’s say, has gives three times a year is only at those three times, not it all way. Always want to be intertwining sametz impact messaging in every communication that we send for friends of the earth. That’s about an e mail a day for most people. So every single day, just reinforcing that narrative of like you can change laws, you can change policies you’re empowered to do. These things, whether you’re giving, are signing a petition or making a phone call to your decision maker. It’s all part of the same set of impact methods. So, like, it doesn’t really matter what way they’re engaging with us. We always want to be rewarding the impact that they’re having. Okay, so someone makes thes donations typically online. I’m assuming we’re talking about small dollar because they’re coming from e mails. All right, so they get an immediate getting immediate acknowledgement. Thank you. Absolutely. Okay. And then what would be the next? Uh, suppose it was a $25 gift. They get immediate. Thank you. When’s the next time would be the next day? You said. You said everyday. Is there any Is there any suspension of suspension of mailing for a couple days to give the person a break or they hear from you is like Day two. They’re going to get going, get some impact message. They could get something to hours later. Even if something happens out in the world and we need Teo, go to them and ask them to respond again. Like, for example, if somebody gives to help stop drilling in the Arctic. And then two hours later, Trump releases his next Arctic drilling plan. We’re not going to hold back that information from our supporters were going to share that with them, even if they just donated and ask them two hours earlier that gave $25 you’ll ask him to give again. We may not ask them to give again, but we would ask them to take action in some way, maybe to volunteer, get old solution way call legislator or something that Okay. Uh, all right. How about, uh, another? Well, honesty. You said honesty. I mean, they got don’t do flush out honestly do we mean? I think is pretty well understood. No, don’t lie to your supporters. Don’t like their potential. Supporters don’t like anyone. I think that’s just I don’t think that’s going further with that another we got lots of We got lots of time together. So still talking about basic principles of, ah, successful campaign, you want to stick with you, Go ahead. Yeah. So I think you touched on a little bit, Sarah, but with urgency and just making sure that when you’re asking people to give its relevant in that moment and you’re convincing them that by giving it will have an immediate impact. Still like, for example, if a bill is moving through the legislature right now like that’s why your contribution matters today, not tomorrow, not two weeks from now. And just constantly reinforcing that like this is the moment to engage. And if you want to have the maximum impact, now is the time. OK, Sarah. Another another principle. Yeah, sure. And she touched on and carry touched on this before. Teo, we really want to focus on building what I call horizontal relationships with our supporters. A lot of times non-profits and organizations across the board say, you know, we have this solution chip in if you want. Like we have this very big idea. We we’ve got it cover, but, you know, chip in to help us. But what we want to do is kind of take that messaging and move away from it. So it’s actually really saying to supporters like Hear that Here’s this issue. Let’s fight on it together. We cannot do it around about you helping us do it right, right, right. And it’s very, very easy on an email marketing to literally put help us in every single email. Ask. Well, Windows won’t eliminate the help us, and we actually really want to bring the supporter in. And I was telling folks during our presentation, There’s a study in the UK about horizontal relationships in sustainable giving, and people who are asked by their peers are actually twice as likely to give, which is really, really incredible on DH. That’s just something that we really want people to focus on for writing emails that sound like they’re coming from your parents. We like a vertical relationship. You probably want to stay away from that. You probably want to make sure that it’s really coming from like a respected here peer-to-peer peer-to-peer rancor. And that’s where that is from. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Um, why don’t we just keep taking off principles of success? I mean, I imagine that was a lot of your was a lot of yourself. Have you done your session yet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You’re on the downside then. Okay. I’m assuming a lot of your session was best practices. Basic principles. Yeah. Success in this thing? Yes. In this small dollar campaign. Give us another one. E. I mean, there’s there’s just so many. Another thing Teo is just having, like, a really, really clear email copy and just making it very simple for people to understand. Does that include short? Well, it depends. And email. We always say it defends. You should always, like test, but basically making sure that people the average like person spends 11.6 seconds reading your email, which is actually pretty long compared tto in the past. But it’s still 11.6 seconds. So just making sure that your email copy is super super clear. Your asks. They’re super clear. Your supporter is not left wondering what they khun D’oh! In that moment to drive the whole mission on the whole organization Forward. I mean, a lot of times I’ll see an e mail that has text, uh, wrapped around on action box in the in the upper right tech starts on the left. But if you want to cut right to the chase, there’s the language of the petition that we’re asking you to sign, Right? Just click there. You have to read the text explanation If you don’t want to. Yeah, yeah, and that’s accessible to everybody. Right? Like some readers like like to just immediately go on Like say, Okay, I know what I want to dio that. And then some people really like just like taking their time and background. Some people really feel down Notes of five foot note down the bottom, right, right. And being open to all levels of like readership is really important to we talked about in our training the power using inclusive language and making sure that your email copy is accessible, accessible to everyone, which is also I think that is very important in the state. How do you How do you ensure accessibility it was a couple of different ways to do that. Carrie actually mentioned a really good point with her email program, which I’ll let her talk more about. But usually people are 65 and over on email lists. So, Carrie, I’m going to kick it off to you to talk specifically about how you made it more accessible on your list. Yeah. So one of the things that we experimented with this font size. You know, a lot of people think that if you’re reading something on a mobile device, you want it to be clearly fitting the screen. But we actually found that for our older audiences, we needed 18 point fun on Mobile, which, if you think about what that looks like kind of computer, it’s huge on your phone. That’s like three lines can fit in the screen. But we tested it, and it just universally work better. Okay, Okay. How about what else do you test? What does the mother’s subject line, who signs we test took off? Well, name some names of other things besides everything. So, in one email, for example, if we’re sending a fund-raising message, we might test the subject line we might test the content. We might test the language on the donation page both in the headline of the donation page and on the body of the donation page. And we might test the ask amounts all in the same all at the same time. And so we really want to test every single piece of the experience all the time. Those of the results that were going to get back in a matter of minutes. We also might be doing some kind of long term testing. Like, for example, what happens if we segment based on highest previous gift? We might need to test that for six months to really understand the impact that’ll have. So while we’re doing all of this testing in the moment, we’re also have this backdrop of the long term testing that we’re running behind the scenes. Did you say you have one point 8,000,000 was 1.31 point. Okay, so you have the luxury of having a large, large numbers that you can test with. So I suppose a list supposed listens only 10,000. Can you still do? Abie testing with 10,000 persons list? Yeah. What? I’d like to tell people is don’t worry about getting sister’s school significance or being like a data purest. It’s fine. The goal, really for, like, email eyes just to improve your email content so that you can raise more money. That’s really all it takes. I mean, you, Khun segment off a 10,000 list into, like to, what? 2,000 list for subject lines and just see if there’s a bumper. Not really. Doesn’t have to be that complicated. And again, like our goal. For me, for AC Blue and for Carrie is like to make in this presentation is really It’s like, take, like the fear out of email and actually make it to listen right? Exactly. That’s what I should have said. The whole university invention non-profit treyz right there. There you go ahead. I cut you off. No, it’s okay. I know, but really it’s like take the fear out of e mail on DH to take the fear out of fund-raising. This is something that anyone could. D’oh! Yeah, Okay, Okay, That would be a good rap up play point, but we have another 10 minutes left. Ok? Because this is 1/2 hour segment Yeah, so I’m not letting you off the hook, so that would be good. Rap will come back to you later, okay? In about 10 minutes. So let’s keep talking about I don’t know testing. Is there anything more we can say about testing? Either of you carry Sara about anything more you want to add about testing? I think the big thing is look for the stuff that’s going to have the greatest impact. So you know, you might test two versions of your content, but if it’s only one line difference, then you’re probably going to see a really small change. As a result of that is opposed to completely rewriting the E mail, you’ll probably see a much bigger change. And it’s not really that much more investment of time to create the much more different version and the results that you get well, just be that much more valuable. So we really look for the places that we can make those radical improvements or something we’ll just radically fail. But then at least we know, you know, rather than constantly testing around the margins. Okay, Okay. Test for significance. What have you found about who signs an email. You have signers to your email? Yeah. Now, of course, this is unique. Understands unique Teo, Friends of the earth. Thes result. Your your results may vary, but what has friends of yours found for us? Who signs What? Successful? Yeah. So we test it in two places. One is the sender, and one is who actually has their name at the bottom of the text. We have found that it makes osili no difference whose name is at the bottom of the texts. But the sender could make a really huge difference for us. The organisation’s name is usually the winner. So coming from friends of the Earth beats coming from our president’s name. But the thing that actually wins the most is just like a totally random like climate alert or be action. Something that is about the issue rather than about the organization or an individual. And that’s as a sender. Yes. Oh, interesting. Okay. Okay. Um Okay, so we’ve exhausted testing. We feel like you said everything. It was there more. Anything more. You want to know about testing, testing principles? Yeah, I think it’s just important for all testing. It’s really like optimizing your content ofthe devising your ask amounts, and it’s just a continual thing. Having one test for email is probably a good place to start and again, Really, anybody could do this. Yeah, okay, okay, Let’s continue with our basic principles. That good. Keep going, Sarah. Cool. Another basic principle. Trying to think. I mean, there’s just there’s just so many We went through so many again trying to think, Let’s get carried. You got one. You got one in mind in your mind, I think, like relevance is super important. Like, what do your supporters actually care about? It’s probably not the same thing that your organization’s leadership or even your organization staff really care about. So try to think about it from your supporters perspective. Like, what is it that makes them get excited about in our example? Environmental protection like water, the things that are their core values And how do you speak to those things like it’s probably not the amendment to the budget bill that’s passing through the house tonight. You know, that’s probably not thinking about Okay, right? How do you find that out? How do you know what your supporters were interested in? So I think some of it comes from just listening to the different staff of the organization who interact with supporters. If you have people who work in the community like if your service organization than get their stories go out on a site, visit with them for us. We always talk to our donorsearch Mrs Staff, who answered the phone from donor-centric leave the major donor calls, but the it’s all dollar donors who might give through direct mail or other channels who actually called the office to give us feedback that Khun just give a really interesting perspective on how people are interacting with us and then even things like social media or people who hit Reply on your mass e mail. You know it’s not data driven, but it can kind of guide some of your thinking and get you out of the bubble. So these air folks who call probably to complain about something sometimes I’m guessing most of the time, most of time, right. But you’re able to turn that call around first by satisfying hearing the principles we talk, you know, validating their concern, apologizing, fixing it on. Then you can get information from them about what it is that motivates them around. Friends of the Earth work? Absolutely. Yeah. So staff is all trained to do that. It doesn’t just happen. Doesn’t just happen. Staff is intentionally trained, you know, Let’s get some information while we’ve got these people on the phone and they’re feeling good, um, you’re familiar with the service recovery paradox. I’m not? No. Okay, that’s that because we’re talking about people calling and complaining. Ah, a person will be a person will be mohr committed to a brand. If there’s been a problem and it got solved, then if there was never a problem because they got the opportunity to be heard they had the opportunity to interact with staff on the problem. Presumably get solved. So they’ll be they’ll be more committed than the person who never has a problem, right? I think that that’s why it’s paradox Interesting. Okay, um, more principles. Sarah passed last time. So no person are you, Carrie, You give another one. Since we’re with you, then we’ll come back. So I’m never going back. But she passed up returns. Think if you’re talking about small donor fund-raising, you always want to make sure that you’re giving people the right ascot the right time. So if someone’s capable of giving $30 don’t ask him for five. If someone’s capable of giving $5 don’t ask them for 250. You know, all of our son isms have data, or you, Khun do some analytics to find out what each individual donors has previous gift is or if they’ve never given before you contest into what makes the most sense. But you want to be talking to people and meet somewhere there at rather than trying to, like a massively over sell them in a way that isn’t accessible. Okay, Okay. Before I ask you for principal, I’m gonna ask you, Sarah, how does one become a email? Your director of director of email? Yeah. That’s not a That’s not a major. No, no, we don’t go to college for that. How do you do? You work your way into that? Yeah, sure. So I graduated college and I it worked as a field organizer for then Senate Senator Kay Hagan. So I really liked what state? The state of North Carolina. OK, Yeah. I’m sorry. I should know that I should I own two homes in North Carolina. Really? Pinehurst and Emerald Isle. Okay, but I’m not from there. Yeah, I didn’t know. Okay, Don’t. Yeah. Now it’s now it’s ber until us all right now the current. Yeah, we lost another current guys. Yeah, but I didn’t know. Okay? Yeah. Eso graduated field organizer. I love talking to people, but I didn’t think that knocking on doors was going to be my life’s calling And my life’s work. Eso ended up getting into digital fund-raising Just because I was just you could talk to people at a massive scale which is really empowering and very cool Uses both sides of your brains. You could be like creative. But of course, we’ve talked a lot about testing on this times. You kind of have a science to it. Also right. Eso I’ve spent like 4 to 5 years and political fund-raising, so I work for the DSCC. I work for Revolution Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. Okay. Yeah. I worked for a revolution messaging a za consultant there, and I was formally the deputy email director at the Democratic National Committee, the DNC, where we had a multi $1,000,000 programme and I’m up at blue. So I’ve been very fortunate to have really great, like female mentors on work on female teams. And so I credit them a lot. Teo, you know where I’m at today on DH. There is a lot of space for women to be an email. There’s a lot of space for young people to be an email on DH. There’s a lot of space for people who haven’t really been involved in email. Toe start. I was with a panel yesterday, which was called I don’t have you know, I left him back in the hotel yesterday’s notes, but was called grit. Female was basically female technologists go that you’re nodding. I didn’t It’s okay, but it was great how to be a successful female in technology. That right? Very good, Carrie, how’d you work your way into being an email scientist? Yes. So I started answering. Our phone line for donorsearch vis is which is why I feel so strongly about your whole career’s friends of the earth. Yet so far on. And basically I discovered that I really wanted to have an impact on the issue that issues I cared about. But I didn’t really want to be dressing up in a suit and going in meeting with a lot of people on the hill. I really wanted to be, you know, out in the field, talking Teo really human beings. And email was just the right mix of those things where I could ask people for money to help further the mission. Or I could give people the tools to lobby their own. Elected officials are whatever the action mechanism was, it was all in my fingertips, and I never have to put on the suit, so that looks okay, doesn’t it? Okay, so we’re back to you practice. Best practice. Did you think of one since the last time? Yeah, I think so. Back to what Carrie was saying about multi-channel about talking to other people within the organization. I think that that is really, really important. Usually when I started a new organization, or like every three months, I’ll talk Teo, just different folks just to get some authenticity and authentic voice. I mean, people are craving authenticity and email, so that’s a really good way to do it. Another thing. That and another question that I got during the panel was direct mail and email. And how do those two things relate? And can they co exist? My personal opinion is yes, they absolutely can. You can use direct mail pieces and email vice versa. You, Khun, send email to to direct mail folks too for a multi touch, eh? So that’s another thing, too, that I think non-profits Khun really explore its really not one or the other. You can have both had someone on the panel yesterday who said that their donors loved getting. They thanked them for direct mail letters that say thank you for an email gift for non line gift. Yeah, yeah, it’s a really good way to keep your sustainers like, really happy. And that’s like your big donor based. Okay, how often would you thank sustainers as often as I can after every gift every month? Well, usually you could do in personal personalization so you can say, like, Hey, you’ve made, like, a $3 monthly donation and literally you just put Inem dash and say thank you. It’s it could be that simple, or it can be like so extreme that you write like a hand written thank you know and send it in the mail. So it just depends on what your capacity is. But just giving, you know, those donors a sense of like appreciation is super important you want. Do you want to touch them at every at every monthly donation, one way or the other? Yeah, well, I’m That’s my personal belief. I think people like they pretty much know that they’re doing a monthly donation and actually reminding people that they gave him a plea donation for us. Like I haven’t seen any dropoff whatsoever. I know a lot of people are like aholic. I’m nervous about reminding people that they have a monthly donation, but I think for us, it’s like part of a gang. Like the honesty authenticity on being up front with people in where they stand. I’ve heard it both ways. I’ve heard. Set it and forget it. Don’t remind them. But then you risk when the court expires or it gets compromised. They decide they have had enough, and I don’t really hear from them very often. But there’s two sides to that argument, right? Okay. What? Carrie, I’m gonna let you wrap it up. We got just like, 30 seconds or so left. Give us a motivation about small dollar donation campaigns. Yeah, I mean, I think for friends of the Earth, it’s really been a a game changer for us. You know, every dollar you raise online has the potential to be unrestricted. So it means that you can run the programs that you want to run as an organization without being required to do what a major donor wants you to do or what a foundation wants you to do. You could be much more flexible, and you’re empowering human beings in the real world to be a part of your cause and advanced the mission that you care about. And there’s just no better way to do that than building those relationships online. Where people, you know in the 21st century, that’s where they’re at. So we meet them where they’re also thank you. That was That was Cary Man. She’s deputy director of digital membership and advocacy at Friends of the Earth and also Sarah Kerrigan, email director. Attack Blue. Thank you Each very much. Thanks. Much pleasure. Thank you. And thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC all of our 19 1990 seon reviews are brought to you as from our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising tools that help non-profits Macon Impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re accountants, for God’s sake. Okay, you know you know what they do. Do you need one? Do you need help with your form? 9 90 is the time to change ordered firms. Perhaps they’ve got a deep rich practice for non-profits and they’re growing it. You could be a part of that. You know a partner. You know, one of the insiders Yet which tomb? He’s been on the show. Check him out. Give him, then give you a ring. Get started at wagner cpas dot com. Now time for Tony’s take two. My video is two ways to be a good American Abroad. I was in Paris for two weeks and while in Brussels, Belgium. Short hour and 1/2 train ride away. Ah, I witnessed some some bad behavior. Bad Americans abroad. There were two things that particular relating Teo language and currency and those air. But those are the two subjects. But how can you do them better than these ugly Americans that I witnessed in Brussels. That’s what the video is about. Now, I had said that earlier that my video was going to be a tour in L C C A launch control center from when I was in the Air Force. But I put this one up instead. The launch control center one is coming. I’m not cheating you out of the tour of the LCC, but right now check out two ways to be a good American abroad. You know where the video is? It’s at tony martignetti dot com. So now that you’ve got new donors, how do you keep them? Here is donor retention. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 si. You know what that is? It’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center and this interview, Like all our 19 ntcdinosaur views brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact, I guess now are Laura Cole and Cole. Hey, Big Laura is director of account Services at Sancti Communications. Paul is president of Sank a communications Welcome. Welcome, Laura. Welcome poem Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Pleasure. You’re seminar topic is finders keepers the art of donor of retention? I don’t know how many guests have been on non-profit radio telling us that the cost of retaining a donor is so much less than the cost of acquiring a new donor. More. Let’s start with you. What are what are non-profits Just not getting them. This is not just within the past six months. For years we’ve been talking about donorsearch tension problems. Retention rate is so low, I don’t know what the most current is, but it’s it’s it’s sad, Whatever it is, what are we not getting right? And you’re welcome to give the most recent stat if you I’m sure you know it. So I think it’s a great point and I think one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about it today and in our session. We really focused on it too. Is that this? This December was definitely a challenge for a lot of non-profits, and it was particularly a challenge for getting new donors in the door. And that means that retention becomes that much more important and to your point. Retention doesn’t happen. You really have to tow work and focus on your communications to make sure that you’re building that relationship because it’s donors are going to give. But you have to take that is the first step of the relationship and really work on cultivating them so that they’re going to become lifelong donors. Paul, Why we’ve been talking about this for so long. Why are non-profits not getting the message that Laura just redid? Rated for the 1,000,000 times? You know, I ended the session off with the audience and said to them, You’ve already done. You’ve really done your session this on the down side already on our way to end it all by saying, Don’t be impatient, Don’t dahna Retention takes time. It takes time to improve it. So we did a case study with the African Wildlife Foundation, and we’ve been working with them for like seven years, and we were able to get there Don’t retention right now. Currently in two thousand eight from 2,018 upto almost 70% prior. You’re donors to give again in the second year, and it took years of planning and communicating and it really is the foundation of what we discussed. And what we believe in is that you really need to build the foundation with technology, good technology from the start. And so this organisation, we went through a really important and arduous database and technology conversion for them almost three years ago, three years ago. I think he was closer to 55 years ago, and so we were able to actually put all the pieces that you need to make this a mohr automated process to really focus on things which allowed the organization and us and freed us up to be more creative with how he spoke to donors. The campaigns that we produced for the organization and really give them an engaging donor experience throughout the 12 month period that we benchmarked this morning. All right, so it’s a long term process you need to have. You need to have infrastructure in place before you can before you can hope to move the needle on potential. It is buy-in caps. Elated. This Yeah, I know. The idea is that one of the things we’ve mentioned at the end was you have to invest. Unfortunately, we’ll invest in the technology even before we even get into donorsearch tension versus new donorsearch attention. It is important because what happens is if you don’t have that infrastructure there. Misstep and interesting. It was the way originally were caught. We’re going to call the session howto lose a donor in 10 days kind of pop culture reference for a movie. But it really is true. Is that idea that in the first part of the relationship, if you have a misstep, you probably lose a donor for life if you, you know, code them differently if you personalize something and it’s the wrong information, if you don’t thank them in a timely manner. And there’s a lot of different things that go into that so really kind of making sure that infrastructure is up and running to make sure that you don’t have those early missteps so that you can create a lifelong donor-centric to get to some of the pitfalls you have in your your description talk about pitfalls that are causing dahna patrician. So why did you want Okay, well, naming the person incorrectly. Yeah, Personal personalization is one of our most powerful tools in marketing and fund-raising, but if you call Bob Barbara, you know, you kind of lose a donor for life for sure, making sure that you I already have in motion the idea that if someone comes on brand new, this is like a data problem that people do that you’re suppressing the people who are new versus old and actually figuring out who they are. So, for instance, I make a donation. A lot of signs, some systems is that you’ll go right into the next campaign stream. But I just made my first donation. So what we can certainly do with the technology for our clients is that will create an automated program that will actually capture that new donor-centric, possibly who hasn’t giving but maybe give their email address for the first time and put them on a separate track and making sure that at the same time they’re suppressed from any other campaigns. Generally, the can kapin would have some kind of fund-raising asked. So really kind of setting the stage of their relationship for the beginning and not forgetting that they just made a donation and really trying to the information that we provide in that Siri’s is meant to be engaging in the part where it actually educates them on the mission and deeper into the program versus you know, usually probably what we brought that original donor and is on some kind of urgency, you know, really quick and got emotional reaction. But at that point, then you have there you have their attention, and you have to use it wisely. Okay, and Laura suppress them For how long? So generally, what what will work with organizations to do is to build a really robust welcome Siri’s. And that usually is at least fortified emails that will go out over, say, 2 to 3 weeks. So making sure that they complete that cycle before they start to get the regular stream of communications. So they’re not kind of being dropped in in the middle of one campaign, or they’re not getting the welcome Siri’s and that campaign. But instead they’re really sort of sitting by themselves, getting this very targeted, very tailored Siri’s that’s going to introduce them to your mission to the organization, tell them what their their donation has done before you ask again. So it’s really making sure that those and and to go back to sort of the movie reference that we made its It is like a relationship, and if you make a mistake in the first date or the second date or the third date, you’re probably not going to turn into a long term relationship. But Teo ads that question about how long it does vary from organization to organization. What we discussed this morning would be the organization that we were case studying, which is the African Wildlife Foundation. They have a membership program. So the how long is a shorter period of time because of the membership program and a lower dollar average gift for them. Repetition in marketing fund-raising is key to their success. But some organizations we work with that might start off at a much higher average gift. That’s where you’d have to really kind of b’more conscientious on the frequency and how when that next asks, Come in. So that could be you know what with the organization with membership, you might be 2 to 3 week where you’re suppressing, but an organization that has a higher average gift donor-centric month or two before or really looking at they’re giving history, so it’s not a one size fits all. It really has to be customized to each organization and what their mission and what type of donors they do have. Oh, and and also targeted to the constituent. If you’re talking about a donor that’s giving a small gift, you’re you’re going to want to suppress him for a shorter period of time than someone that gave you $10,000. That person’s going to need a lot longer period of pure cultivation before you make that ask again. Okay, let’s let’s do some more pitfalls like these pitfalls to avoid attrition. Absolutely. Go ahead, I think. One of the big ones. And this is partly why digital retention tends to be lower than direct mail. Is not making sure that you’re updating donor email addresses, whether they tell you that they have a new email address. But even more proactively finding out what the what what? Maybe someone’s new email address is called in a way or email. Change of address process. Something like that where you’re you’re actively saying, let me make sure that I can keep emailing a donor because email addresses changed much more frequently than someone’s mailing address. People don’t generally move as much as they change their email address. Maybe they go to a new job. Maybe they switch from Yahoo Hotmail. So making sure that you can keep talking to them, because if you’re not going to talk to them, you can’t make that ask. You can’t cultivate and they’re not going to get there much less likely to give again if you kind of lose touch. I’m not even sure that non-profits know a lot of them know that there are services that will do it. The email change of address for you, Yeah way the Postal Service with, like, a a national change of address I have now on the way. I have, ah, have a little personal story, my dad’s name and my name or the same Anthony martignetti, but he uses A J. He’s Anthony Joseph. I have the same middle name, but I never used the J. There’s one indicator that we’re different. Also, his his current address is not my last address. I haven’t lived there since I was nine, eighteen 18 years old. I went to college. I moved. I moved from New York City to North Carolina. More than a dozen charities started emailing Anthony J. Martignetti to my North Carolina address Charities that my dad is a is an active donorsearch. For now, he’s a small level donor. Is he’s one of those guys who writes like 15 $2025 checks, and I mean literally he does dozens of these a month. He gives a lot at the end of the year, so they were. So they were aspiring to be proactive. But there were two flags that should have been raised that that I’m not the guy, that he’s not the guy who moved the middle initial and the last address. So that brings us to another pitfall. It’s one of the major pitfalls pitfalls. A lot of non-profits full into his data issues data. Bad data can really harm donorsearch tension. So in your case, these organizations are not actually there. There, there, there, there, looking up your information. It’s either it’s household or individual. And so you can. We’ve seen this happen for organizations where you’ll get a household match, and that’s what you’re what happened with name yes, but versus an individual, which is directly just you and that address. But it brings back the point, which I think we’ll go back to our topic on pit bulls data. It could be the right that for all non-profits not. And it’s the hardest part for an organization that really both invest the time and money and resource is. That’s usually people power to make sure that you have clean data for knowing when someone is active or made a gift recently, and then you ask them by actually ask him to renew when they just renewed a month ago. Or I mentioned the personalization piece or recognizing when someone is, ah, high dollar donor-centric. And that’s one of actually the things that you mentioned. Is it really important? Sustaining giving is one of the differential factors where online retention doesn’t actually start going up from offline retention if you’re really good at recruiting sustainers or monthly givers and then making an active effort. So part of the case study with you this morning was that we’ve been actively growing the sustainers file for this organization, and it right now they’re they’re about 25 plus percent that there digital giving is coming from sustainers e-giving, which each year helped their retention grow, and that’s why they’re close to 70% now on retention because of that. But when we treat sustainers, we always recognize that there are sustainers. So even though that you don’t want to stop communicating sustainers gonna wantto forget about the organization. But we segment and we recognize their contribution and we usually put them in a lot of the engagement campaigns and cultivation. The awesome part about sustainers is they’re so engaged with the organization what I always call the 13th gift. So that will be a monthly Don’t make 12. They’ll make that 13 because they’re so engaged. But you have to really treat them well and so generally will maybe get they’ll get a matching gift campaign, maybe year, and to say, Hey, we have this match going on. We know you’re a monthly supporter, but we just wanted to bring it to your attention. It’s all about the nuance messaging and really think about that. But it goes back to the data being clean and knowing who you’re speaking to, segmenting your audiences and really paying attention to that and bad data. Really, convict can really lead, Yeah, two mistakes like that. Now you know if if it wasn’t my dad I wouldn’t be. Wouldn’t wouldn’t have given them the second chance. I just tossed it or said, You know, take me off your list. Hence, how to lose a donor in 10 days Time for our last break Text to give. Get their five part email Many course to dispel the myths around mobile giving Donations do not have to go through the donors phone company. They don’t have to be small. There aren’t large startup costs. You don’t need to know a lot of technology. You can do this. You can do mobile giving. You get the five part email, many course and it’ll explain how to get started. Um, you get that by texting NPR to 444999 You’ve got butt loads. More time for donorsearch retention anymore. Pitfalls. I liked the men I like taking off these things, that organ ords maybe doing wrong. So so along the lines of what you brought up, I think one of the biggest pitfalls is not respecting when when donorsearch Hey, I don’t want to get mail or you have the wrong address. Please update it. Donors who bothered to reach out and tell you that are very loyal donors. If they’re proactively reaching out and saying, Please send, you know, to this new email or this new postal address or this is the wrong you know, middle initial or this is the wrong no last name. Anyone who reaches out with that cares a lot about the organization. And so it’s making sure that you’re respecting that and that there’s business rules and to Paul’s point, people in place to make those updates right, because the second time, the person when the first that’s right, second request. Then you’re done. This is your you’re hurting. So absolutely that dovetails into a point of really making sure the right hands talking to the left hand, where if you’re running a campaign that you have really good donorsearch vis reps who understand what’s going on with the fund-raising department and can actually feel those questions. So they got a matching gift request, for instance, knowing that when they answer the phone that they were talking about that a lot of time. Our donors donors will call for organization to say well, might give still be matched. I’m a little late, so having someone ready to know that. But at the same time, what we find the organizations have been most successful is when they have somebody on the phone who can really take a donor complaint and make them to a lifelong donors. And it’s just really preparing them and training them on DH, treating someone like a human being and understanding that even their $25 gift is just as important as the $1,000 gift when they when they take the energy to call the organization. And generally you can really kind of swing a donor to be really lifelong supporter as long as you have somebody on the lines and the phone. Many organizations forget about that, and you made a good point this morning, which I’ll let you make about even just the last week of the year. Well, it’s It’s remembering that some of the biggest giving days on the online side are not working days. It’s the end of the year. It’s Christmas, it’s New Year’s. It’s days when the office may be closed. But if no one’s answering the phones when you have donors trying to make a gift, you know if you get back to them in January. It’s too late, you know, a sort of mist that window. And so it’s thinking about customer service, especially on those key days when, even if you know, recognizing it’s a holiday. But it’s when people are giving and needing to be there for the donors. Do either of you know the There’s a paradox service like service repair paradox or something like that in customer service, where if you’ve made a mistake and corrected it as a as a company, you will. You will have a more loyal customer than if you hadn’t made the mistake in the first place. And that’s goes to what you were describing. Pull their end well and Laura, too, that that there’s someone there responsive that actually makes the change or correct the problem. They have to be empowered to correct the problem, and if they do, you’ll have a more loyal well, it feeds over in our in our circle. It does have a more loyal donor-centric to begin with, so we made a point this morning. Another don’t was when your when your service recovery, that’s what service recovery paradox. So we made a point talking about the fact that Okay, so you’re going to make mistakes sometimes. So just say, make sure your emails rendering correctly when someone views it makes sure when someone lands on a donation form, it’s working correctly. However, technology breaks down sometimes, regardless of how much you test how great you are at that. But what I talked to the audience about is as long as you’re both timely with your apology and also just things do happen. And, you know, one of the best examples would have been Steve Jobs. When the iPhone had the antenna issue, he pretty much changed the entire power paradigm for PR in the sense of how he handled that situation where they were. They were roasting Apple at that point, and he actually turned it around and it became the best selling high phone because the way he handled that, he took responsibility and they moved on. And I think the quote was, well, technology breaks down. Actually, all phones dropped calls, and it’s not just it’s not just the iPhone and that quickly the media shifted there, but the whole idea is being quick and nimble and being able to go back out So the non-profit has an issue with their donation form or something with their sight being quick and being able to be. You know, sometimes humor works in some ways and some organization, depending on your mission. But being direct on that and really kind of talking about it and getting out getting in front of it is so important. And again, then you know that that that experience level, we actually see that a lot of the times those correction emails do perform quite well, sometimes even better than the other emails in the Siri’s. When you go back and you’re just really human and honest about what happened and take responsibility exactly that za piece of what a piece of what you’re describing all right, and and to your point earlier about the small dollar donor to remember that for that donor, that’s that’s a big commitment they’ve made for you. It’s a it’s a small amount of money, but for them it’s a big commitment, and so treating them well regardless of the amount of money that they give. And that’s one thing that the digital space allows for is that high touch treatment allows for the personalization it allows for. The customization allows those donors to feel special regardless of how much they’ve given and in terms of numbers. Sometimes the small dollar donors that given year after year and say, Hey, I’ve moved, please update it. Those may be your best plan giving prospect so you can’t dismiss them even if they’re giving you a little amount, because for them, it’s a It’s a lot I do plan. Giving consulting now 1997 carrying on and the ultimate retention I’ve seen lots of seen lots of eyes algorithms, I guess, for you know, who makes a good plan giving prospect. I still think the best plan giving prospect is that person who’s given you 23 gifts in the past 25 years exactly on the most recent one was no more than, like, six months ago or something. Yeah, they are thinking about you every single every single year, and I don’t I really don’t care. Here’s $10 a year. In some cases, I think they’re testing you, but they’re probably testing you for 23 years. But but some of those initial small dollar gifts they may be testing you do I get a thank you is a timely yeah. Did they screw things up in the thank you, you know, etcetera. So I think there’s some of that. Some of the testing on the small dollar lord to your point about small dollar donations. But they are enormously good playing, giving prospects that kind of that kind of loyalty and longevity, even if even if small, small, double digit levels very good plan giving prospects here earlier point about because acquisition is so challenging. Some one plan gift from someone who made a gift for 20 years who can pay for an acquisition program for an entire organization meeting. You know, you you invest that money 20 years ago and then you’re banking on it later on where they’ve left this entire you know, there’s a part of their state to an organization, and so it’s important, actually tracked those folks right to find out what the origin of those folks who do come in because it’s generally as you just said, those low Doyle. The donor’s really do care about the organization. That’s why they stuck around for 23 years. It is important. Look, back-up e-giving history and try and ascertain from those patterns. Hoo hoo! Your other good prospects are. Yeah, and that’s one thing we spoke about at the session is, is the data side of it is is to really track retention and really leverage it. You have to have the data collection in place. You have to know who your donors are. You need ideas for them. So you contract. They’re giving year over year, but you also need to be able to identify where they came from in the first place. If you want to invest smart going forward, you have to know what your investments really yielded in the past. And so the cost of acquisition. What’s the source? The source, the source? And what did it cost exactly? And even if it was a long time ago, being able to know what that was is really valuable. That’s a great transition anymore, Waken say about technology. I mean, well, you both in it a lot. There’s no anymore more strategies around technology that he needs to be in place. So Paul touched on it, and I think it’s important is to recognize that your technology can can work for you or against you and recognizing where it it is working for you and maybe where it’s it’s presenting challenges and and maybe those air too much, and you’re really costing yourself on the retention side for not investing in technology. But it’s also recognizing that technology without the people to really leverage it isn’t going to get you very far that you need data people you need. You know, people who know how to use the technology and can really make it work for you. So I think it’s It’s technology, by itself is not powerful. It’s technology and people and subsided. And what you’re saying is you have to hire the expertise that you need. If it’s not a full time employee, you have to get a consultant freelancer. You can’t You can’t manage this and master it on your own on DH. That’s not your expertise anyway. You’re zan inefficient use of your own time or your organization’s time to try to master something that you don’t know you need to. You need to invest in the talent that you need because the organizations are good at their missions. You know, in many ways, right, it’s not really about marketing or technology or database management. I mean, it does. It does come to that. Sometimes you and I think also a point you made earlier that that I do think sometimes gets lost is that when when it comes to our attention, sometimes it’s it’s fancy technology and automation and behavioral driven content. And sometimes it’s the basics. It’s the acknowledgement. Did you send an acknowledgement? Did it talk about the impact that the gift had did it? You know, thank the donor an appropriate way. Was it sent out on time? So with all the bells and whistles that are out there in technology now, it’s important to not forget those fundamentals and to make sure that those air in place, regardless of whether you have a staff of 10 or one very well said you should be co presidents. Take note of that account services sounds sounds beneath her to mate. We’ve been working together for 10 years. It’s true. That’s good. Yeah, co President. Um, okay, let’s look metrics. You talk about metrics to measure churn and retention. Who wants to wants to kick off the metrics? We got like, four more minutes left together. So you want to start for so the biggest thing when it comes to metrics is, is having the data in place and knowing whether or not you even have the data to track it. And the key for retention is that you’re tracking donorsearch cohorts. So it’s not talking about the total number of gifts that’s talking about donors and specific groups of donor. So when you want to measure overall retention from one year to another, you need to know which donors gave in your one and which donors went onto given year, too. So so if you can actually identify that because you don’t have the ideas or you don’t have the data in biology infrastructure, just talking, you’re not going to get anywhere. And similarly, knowing someone who’s new versus who’s who’s renewed is quite important because going back to the point you made earlier about acquisition, the retention of a new donor right now hovers around 25%. And so really tension of a 1st 3rd 1st time, first time donors so well, so organized organization whose 75% of the people they broke time don’t Yeah, and so there is making sure you have the ability to track these things so that you actually then Khun, figure out you’re targeted strategies towards these groups, treating them separately in some ways and actually having creative and ideas and specific pieces that go to them so that you can retain those vote for people. We kind of haven’t touched upon it. But a lot of the strategies that we’ve been implementing with great success is trying tio convert a lot of those first time donors into sustainers, and that really has helped lift the program’s on the digital side and where digital retention for the overall programs have have been on the rise a little bit, and particularly with this organization that we case study today African Wildlife Foundation that was the sustainers program has been really one of the key to the success of really good online retention because we really quickly move folks from their first gift and have strategies to convert them to sustainers and then due to individual sustainers drives where it could be coupled with the match and really kind of back to really strong, evocative creative that goes back to for there in this mission is, you know, poaching of elephants and the crisis that’s going on there, but it works with other organizations to. And so the success of those programs and then having the data to make sure that you actually keep the retention of your sustainers is another really important factor because that there’s there’s low hanging fruit that that could be easily forgotten or missed by organizations on when credit cards expire and making sure that you really invest in that channel, you know, And it’s actually more channels that we’re discussing this morning. Not only sometimes email does not work to retain a sustainer, you actually need to use offline and send it direct mail piece or take it even further. And sometimes we’ll do telemarketing to see if we can get that boat that person back because their their lifetime value is greater than most other sources. Why do, uh, she would just have, like, 30 seconds? How come some How come sustainers stop sustaining? I think two reasons I think one is some sustainers don’t realize that they’ve became a sustainers so generally in the 1st 2 or three months on stage, it was a mistake, and that goes back to data making sure that when you when you confirm those sustainers that you actually tell them they’re sustainers. OK, there is like a threshold where they passed 13 and four, and then you got them. The other thing is credit cards. A little scripture expire expires. Or they or yeah, exactly. And they decide to have done it long enough because you kind of want sustainers toe almost go on autopilot and, you know, and then really, you still want to engage them, But you don’t need to constantly remind them that they’re making that gift. But you wanted still engage them on your mission. So those air to areas where I’d say that where you would lose sustainers. Okay, we’ve got to leave it there. That flu fantastic was awesome. All right? Yes, they’re both with. Thank you, Communications. Paul is the president, and Laura is soon to be co president, but currently director of account Services. This interview, like all the 1990 sea interviews brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits Macon impact. Thanks so much for being with non-profit radios. Coverage of 1990 si next week. Tech accessibility and culture of resilience. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital P by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers Regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to 444 999 are creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. The With Me Next week for non-profit radio. 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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow on Odo polyp ous if I heard that you missed today’s show. Reducing donors Abandonment From Amazon to Zappos There’s a lot you can learn from e retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online GIF ts Our nineteen anti seat panel Matt Scott and David de Para Lisa reveal proven e commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from cause *** and David is at Give lively and welcome your donors the right way. Your donors now complete their online GIF ts at record rates. Have you got an in? Have you got in place? A multi-channel welcome and nurture Siri’s to receive and steward these new donors. Our panel will get you started. They’re brenholz is with C ch and Chrissy hyre from innovation that’s also recorded at nineteen and TC. I’m Tony Steak to be the one we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dad, I’m a slash pursuing by weather CPAs guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is reducing donor Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. You know what that is? It’s a non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This interview, like all are nineteen ntcdinosaur views is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guests now are Matt Scott sitting closest to me. He’s CEO of Cosmic and David De Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively Welcome Welcome mat. Welcome, David. Thank you. Thanks, Tony. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you on DH mascot. Welcome back to non-profit Radio. Thank you. It’s good to be back. All right. Your topic here today is reducing donor. What’s a copy from e retailers? David, why don’t you get us started? What? Give us the Give us the headline in the lead. Sure. So this session is intended to help non-profits think about the full life cycle of thie experience of making a donation and all of the elements that could result in someone dropping off from completing a donation way. Want to, you know, bring in expertise from the consumer world. The world that most everyone lives in on apply it to this non-profit space. Okay. And just so in case there’s any question want you define abandonment for us. So someone starts a starts to donate two or starts thie intent, or has the intent to donate to your cause and then leaves in the middle of it. Right? Okay. Yeah. Okay, Matt, anything you want to add to the overview of our session? Yeah. I mean, I think when we’ve had a lot of conversations, one of the thing that I really enjoy about David’s perspective is you No way. Think about Amazon. One click check out. Right. We think about Netflix in terms of, you know, the user experience that we’re all used. Teo and I think that if we can copy some of those things and move them over to the non-profit space, we’re going to be a head as an industry. But if we’re thinking on ly about competing against other non-profits from a donor experience, we’re going to find ourselves in a lot of trouble because you’re starting setting the bar too low. You’re setting Well, yeah, you’re absolutely setting the bar too low, because we, as consumers, are also the people who are donating to charities, right? And if our expectation is for it to be a seamless process to collect a little information as possible to have unique, engaging content delivered to us if we’re not thinking like that as a nonprofit organization, we’re missing out on consumer behavior, which are the e retailers, that you want us to learn from that really broad base. So you know, we’re inspired by Amazon Zappos to some degree you thie experience at an Apple store, which, you know, in a way, is a kind of hybrid retail experience and generally taking best practices from that space broadly, even if it is in a specific retailer, it’s It’s some of the elements of what makes Annie retail experience common. For example, a simple donation, a simple check out flow a a checkup, though that doesn’t ask many questions but lets you get through it as fast as possible. A one click check out a digital wallet capability, the’s air, things that have worked for the for-profit sector and non-profit sector is catching up and we hope to help them get there. Yeah, why? What’s the What’s the problem? Why so slow? I mean, we’re all experiencing these things on the e commerce side. Why were we not recognizing that? Uh, the analogy between our our donors and ourselves as consumers? What’s the disconnect? I would say that there’s an access issue. There’s an access to technology that brings the retail style practices to the non-profit. Sectarian give Lively is a response to that problem, which is looking at the world of non-profit tech and seeing that elements like digital wallets are not common, that something that isn’t available in the A lot of other platforms but that is available on the give lively platform. So it’s those types of things that have kept non-profits behind. I mean, unfortunately, platforms or not innovating as fast as they can. And they’re not innovating with the consumer mindset that that us in just a few other players are. Okay. All right, so I started to add to that one of the things that I think is really interesting working with established non-profits, You know, you you look at these behemoths and they are their worst own worst enemy When it comes to technology, you look at the younger, more rapidly growing organizations, and those are the ones that are really out there able to adopt new technologies quickly. They’re not constrained by existing say, CR M systems or their, you know, existing, you know, ways of doing things. And and when you when you take a tool like give lively and you put it out there and you integrate with the C R m like sales force, you unlock that potential. And I’ve seen it time and time again, where established non-profits in particular they are their own biggest hurdle when it comes to getting getting in line with e commerce. Best practice? No. All right, all right. So why don’t you kick us off, Matt? What? Uh, let’s get kicked off with what we should what we should be learning. Where do we start? Yeah, I mean, I think David brought up a lot of really good points in terms of Amazon, and you’ve got, you know, a donor experience. But then what I’m really interested in and I think where we complement one another is on the content side. And so I like to always start with you know who is your target audience? What is the unique user experience that that person or persons wants tohave with your brand? And how can you make sure from the moment that they interact with your brand and are brought to your page to your checkout form that they understand you’re unique market position? And so I think that that’s really important to have a singular content strategy that’s very user focused. And, uh, if it’s okay handing it over to David because I feel like that’s where he picks up in terms of the e commerce checkout process and where that’s really critical in terms of the transition from content to check out. OK, yeah, I noticed matter-ness were on Mike, you’re more deferential than, uh Well, then all this *** that you were giving me before before. Before I turn the mike on, why don’t we talk about monthly giving, for God’s sake? But all of a sudden, my cousin, he’s like, uh, if you don’t mind, I’d like to pass it over to David. Very interesting. There can only be one New York around like you’re dominating. Yeah, you multiple turned. You know, talk about talk about best. I’m gonna start the guest personas start start creating that that is surrounded by New Yorkers right now. Yeah. You know, you’re only here. He’s being into forced deference. A submission sametz Alright, yes. Well, I’ll take your suggestion. The matter very politely requested It’s time for a break Pursuing the art of first impressions how to combine strategy analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition and had to make a smashing first impression with your potential donors. You will find it on the listener landing page at Tony that I may slash pursuing capital P for please. Now back to reducing donor-centric. Share your expertise. You did tick off a bunch of things. I wallet went one click, check out seamless, but we got we got a lot more time together that way. Gotta go into some detail. Yeah, and so you know, at first I think it be helpful too. Acknowledge what Matt mentioned in terms of thinking about storm the content, right? And the thing that keys in for me there is thinking about how the experience starts at the level of the ask and then the level of the intent of the donor. So to reduce abandonment, you want to get the right person to the checkout flow, right? So you want to start with the right people who respond to that message. And so you know what that’s doing It cosmic is creating messages that resonate at a very granular level with different constituencies in such a way that when they get to the checkout flow, they finished the check out great. And I think that okay, that thread is a thread that involves technology because it’s not only the channels in which that message is being sent, but then it’s how that story is represented on the donation page and through the check outflow and even after the checkout float. Okay, we’LL come back to that. I understand ITT’s all of spectrum. Yes. Ah, movement a process, Matt. What? The different how we identify the different constituencies for these granular messages. Yeah, No, you’re you’re getting at is like, what are the technical steps that need to be put in place? So let’s just take acquisition is a great example, right? So you’re you’re going to post up a variety of ads like paid social. And if you set up separate landing pages with separate checkout forms, that’s one way of identifying. You know, this ad directly relates to this check out page, and there is a continuum of content once you arrive there at that page and you know they arrived from there because you’ve set up different ones. The content can then be dynamic essentially for that constituents. And that’s where David talks a lot about stealing your thunder here. But you know, you you have you have that check out for him. That’s asking for his little information as possible. So capturing that email address in that zip code and getting right into the payment and and you’re getting right down to the nitty gritty then you’re worrying about Okay, now that I’ve already got this information, what additional information do I need to provide? But I’ve already processed the donation. That’s right, Yeah, So it’s thinking about what is Germaine to the donation experience as the only things that you should be asking a donor before the payment is actually made. You want to capture the dollars, so every affair to say, like with his few distractions, is possible. There’s no need to have AH on issue video on your or issue photos on your on your checkout page for donation. The person has already moved by your issues. Well, it depends in their different ways that that can be implemented. One way would be to have a page that’s both telling the story and allows you to make that seamless donation in the same view. Okay, and there’s some that do the jump, right? So there’s a storytelling page, and then you jumped to a donation form that’s on a different page, and I’ve seen it done both ways and, you know, way See it work both ways really depends heavily, though, upon how they get there, right? Like if they’re coming to your they’re experiencing your brand for the first time, where they haven’t, you know they need to be informed, right? And so another best practice is having called toe actions throughout your page. Right? So you’re not just one. So you’ve got big, strong, powerful image or something that draws that user in from a content perspective in a high c t es of donations and I think Sita Way got drug in jail on non-profit radio. A cz a previous guest Disappointed you didn’t know that lock myself away is a call to action, right? And to that point, I mean, I think that’s that’s another best practices. Give lively donation check out form can be embedded into your existing site so you can have this microsite like, let’s say, taken unbound page right. And you know that you’ve set up this unique page and you’ve got the both the story there and the narrative there, and then you’ve got a call to actions throughout the page. That’s best practice, because as they move down the content, there’s lots of opportunities to make that contribution. Okay, what’s an unbound page they’re not paying me to talk about on? I’m just kidding. Way were, It’s a wonder. Anything anyone think it’s a tool. You keep this up, I’m shutting your Michael Fair Fair. It’s a it’s a landing page tool that is really easy to use in turn end of setting up unique content on DH. Then you Khun, track that you know someone lands on that page and you contract that they came into your database specific to that content. Okay. Okay. So this is we’re getting to our segmentation of constituencies. Okay, Okay. All right. So now let’s go back to David. What more can you say about place? Things you need to have in place? Sure. So you know one thing that this let’s start at the very kind of high level, which is that a donation form should work if you’re going to reduce it. Abandonment of your donation form one. Someone’s in it. It better work on a mobile device, but it’s kind of a simple statement, but we’ve got to be passed out by now. I mean, everything should be mobile, but that’s not a body. But that’s not always the case. And they’re still donation forms out there that are asking for. I like to joke. It’s there asking for everything but your blood type. You know, it’s a it’s a twenty eighty step form that. Then at the end, you have a credit card entry field. Maybe, and maybe there’s an error in that process. Just over what kind of stuff? They all asking. But I don’t dare ask me. Study this So they’re asking for. You often will see full mailing address, even if that person has no is a digital savvy your digital only person. They’LL ask questions about, perhaps, how they got to our learned about the cause, which is a good question asked. But maybe not before the dollar is captured and can be inferred by some of the tracking that’s occurring. That brought them to the patient was That’s right, pages, etcetera. Okay, um, you know there are even in how the payment information is presented is an element that can be very confusing. So for some donation forms, they make you type or choose whether it’s a Visa card instead of just detecting. Yeah, why did he do that? I know it. And I can tell by the first digit they could tell that the battery ditches first for Justin. It’s welcome. And that’s not even that’s not unique to non-profits Know that. Was there e commerce mary-jo just to say that? I said, That’s laziness on behalf of those building those forms, okay, or that’s lack of capacity. Shoes is a diner’s club or MasterCard or visa or markets. It’s laziness. I mean, it’s easy to detect. It should be present on every single page is interesting. All right. So I don’t know if listeners were interested, but I am well, but it’s, you know, but the channel there are there’s data that shows that every, you know, hub spot ran a study and show that when you increase the amount of fields that you ask a person to complete, you end up over about two to three fields total. You get a fifty percent drop off. Oh, so it’s that high so And once you get to eight, which is many of what he’s talking about, right, you’re down to its well under single digits of conversion rate, which is a dismal. If you think about like you have a really strong contents from the person was into it, they made their way to your donation return until you ask them for their blood type. Yeah, I I also will say one of my pet peeves that, you know, non-profits continuously asked people for the same information over and over and over and over again. Right? So you know who this constituent is? You’ve sent them this email communication. You already know who they are there in your database, and you ask them to re identify all that information again. For what? Like why? You know, when you go to Netflix and you have your subscription to Netflix, they’re not asking you. Or if you’re in Dollar Shave Club and you decide to get shaving cream on top of your razor, no one’s asking you. By the way, could you tell us like what you’re you are in? Yeah. Like right? No, we know. Okay, save it and stop asking for repetition. All right? Yeah. Consolidate. I mean, consolidate fields as much as possible. Don’t ask for the same inspiration twice. What’s essential? I mean, I’m all right, so I’m thinking of the quintessential, you know, the Amazon checkout. It’s been so long since I did. My first time was on a purchase like everybody else. I obviously can’t remember that, but what? What, What? What, what? What’s actually essential. So I mean so in my view and the view that informed to give lively donation platform when we first launched it, it was nothing more than identifying information about that donor. First name last. Actually, in the very early days, not even first name and last name email address, payment information. That was it. You know, now there’s a little bit more in terms of full name, just enough to make sure that we’re doing receding the right way and all of the all of the tax deductible benefits, by the way. So payment information that includes the billing address You have to have the billing and not include Okay, so rate. So let’s get really specific. So it’s It is literally first name, last name, email address and credit card information, meaning nothing more than the number, the expiration date and the CVC code so you can process the donation without without telling you that’s not required. That’s right. And, uh, you know, one of our favorite partners that cosmic is another organization called touchpoint, which is amazing. You give them just too little little tip bits of information like about Tony. We’d find out what kind of bagel heeds you know on Wednesday because they can pull back all that information for for only thirty cents per constituent and give you everything about them. What property they own, what, what non-profits They give to their address everything, and so that’s One of the reasons why we like to give lively platform is you can take as little information as possible, get that donation and then just pay thirty cents. Because if you have drop off, that goes, you know, down fifty percent. When you’ve asked more than three questions, why not ask just as few questions as possible and go pay thirty cents for that information somewhere else? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you cannot go, and that’s getting into very sophisticated strategies in terms of augmenting date. Instead of asking for things up front, find other ways to get at it. You know, there are social networks that have advertising networks that have ways to link. For example, email address is back, too. Uh, that social, so that you don’t necessarily need to ask them. So then you learn more about that donor to those networks through your own work, rather than asking and risking the abandonment. That’s right, just the frustration do of it. Okay, um, go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say I think David should speak a little bit about, you know, the digital wallets, and that’s that is absolutely game changing when it comes to best practice. So take it from here. Thanks. So and we’LL get a mascot non-profit radio things there latto longest running part kapin most listen to podcasts. It’s also in order Mobile off deferential and generous welchlin the mike is on. Yeah, yeah, B b cut. Well, good to have Tony back on the show. I just like so we, you know, hear Give life. So that another session, actually that that I’m leading called digital while it’s so hot right now and in that session will talk about digital wallets. The concept. I mean, digital arts have been around for a long time, but in examples of them are PayPal. Apple pay, Google pay the’s are one click payment options that have in them a variety of security protections and data that gets easily shared without having to ask that door faster. Just talking about All right, so there’s no entry. What? You’ve entered a credit card once you’ve entered your address once, and you’re just using it over and over again in in this example of donation form on. They’re incredibly powerful, and they are people use them. The level of, you know, penetration of mobile wallets. is increasing increasing at all age groups, but particularly with younger foe. But in non-profits well, very few have actually have ever had access to it. So our platform has digital wall So you’LL see See it in. For example, If you go to malala dot org’s that’s one of our partners right on their home page You’LL see if you have a wallet on apple pear Groupe browser that you’re on you’LL see those buttons right there and you can make that donation very quickly If you’re on your phone, you’LL see it there. But most other platforms are not offering that service or they’re just now offering that service eso And but this is a service that we’re used to write. So think about buying a cup of coffee at a on using square and tapping with apple pay. You’re not. I also think like it would be it would be troubling if we didn’t at least mention this best practice for me. Commerce, which is the classic upsell, right? So I think one of the areas that I’ve seen the wall it works so well is when you’ve got you’ve got a recurring donorsearch, right, you’ve got this person who’s a member of your tribe, right? And one of our client team, Rubicon, stands out. Our mercy corps stands out where you have these sustaining donors who give monthly right. Then you have this urgent appeal that comes up. And because you have a really robots content strategy and your quantifying the impact of their recurring gift, you send them a text message that is a simple is them putting their thumbprint on to authorize an additional one time contribution for a wildfire in, you know, Northern California or whatever. It is incredibly effective for up selling for those who are on a subscription model a CZ. Well, as you know, you attend an event or whatever it is, it’s an easy way to take that best practice for me. Commerce, which is your existing customers, are your best potential you know, customers for for an additional service. Yeah, yeah, and those you know, those buttons should be front and center. So no ineffective donation form to reduce abandonment shows you easy ways to pay up front and suggests the best way to pay right on, right on that first screen. So, you know, looking at a donation from that works. Well, is one that may say you’re making a twenty five dollar donation monthly. Tap this one button and you’re done. You’re you’ve not even moved beyond that first page. You’ve really not even asked any additional questions of the user because the answer’s air embedded inside of a digital wallet payment s o very low friction. Easy to make donations much more secure. One of the objections of her, uh, from’s arounds streamlining like we’re talking about is the preservation of credit credit card information. Because then that then you’re implicated with Peace PCL complaining PC exactly that So that an acronym fell? No, not when I do it. Ok, ok. Thank you. Thank you. It’s personal. Personal credit information watching your mike is going down. It’s already been slowed down. You hear yourself? But no one else will. Yeah, I notice you’re only asking David questions. You know, I don’t not only get to speak. He says, Can I say something? I, uh, thought I should mention here is because Tony is not going to ask me. All right, so now you’re now you’re in your you’re implicating PC I compliance requirements, But if you’re accepting, you use digital wallets, you’re not. You’re not personally. You think the organization is not preserving the the information right? It’s the I don’t know what it’s called the host of the host of the wallet. Yeah, exactly what they were getting into the payment process. Non-profit. The payment process apparently doesn’t have to save the Yeah, I mean, I hope. And if I I hope no one listening to this who’s who is working for a nonprofit is ever dealing directly with PC high compliance like they should be using a vendor who is shielding them from that level of risk because that’s incredibly risky and a lot of a bureaucratic burden in order to get PC I compliant. So the payment processors under the give lively platform are stripe papal. Those air both PC I complaint writers in the case and in all cases platform like you’ve lively, never has access to a person’s donor-centric our information directly and through a wallet. What’s really smart about wallets is how they hide. Even they create one time use credit card numbers. Essentially, that’s an easy way to think about it. One time use numbers that he used every time you make a purchase so that there’s no one number goes down or gets, you know, used inappropriately, and it’s not affecting any other element of your credit history. So it’s secure on hidden from both the payment provider themselves as well as a platform for writer. No, certainly the non-profit. Okay, man, I’m gonna give you a break, actually, and I feel bad. I don’t really feel bad, but I’ll say I feel bad about the way I’ve treated you. So I’m going to give you the going to give you the wrap up because we just have, like, a twenty or thirty seconds or so let you clue how generous cosmic from clolery Thank you. Uh, I would say for any non profit organization who is out there, think about to yourself. What is the experience that you did? You really just turn? No. Okay. So paranoid. I don’t take my word for it, I guess. Think about the experience that you have with the brands that you love and think about how you feel when you’re asked lots of questions that are unnecessary and and try and channel that when you’re setting up your your donation form or when you’re selecting your vendor toe work with to process your donations because it’s that that’s the standard. The standard is not other non-profits. The standard is not your system that you’ve been using for three decades, and it works because it’s what we always used. The standard is how we interact with brands on a daily basis and how we spend our money on a daily basis, and it’s really important to think about that. Those brands have raised the bar your donors are experiencing that that high level of, of, of, of purchase flood. He’s he’s thank you, and they’re coming to expect it from you. That’s right, Yeah, Unless unless they abandon the process, that’s right and, you know, and then give Lively’s case, just plug us for a second. You know, we don’t charge money for our for access to our platform, so we’re enabling non-profits use digital wallet type technology and have that access and not have to pay for it. And I think that’s something unique, and I hope people take advantage of that. All right. It was shameless self promotion, but allowed with bilich thinking, I feel like I’m with the two Smart through smart promoter from cookies. Permit me to say Young Young Seo’s fifty six. I can’t say that. Alright on DH They are Matt Scott’s Yo of Cosmic and David de Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively, and this is Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit Technology Conference This interview Like all our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re free. Webinar came and went. It was tips and tricks for your nine. Ninety. You missed it. No problem. Watch the archive. Yes, the archive learned how to use your nine ninety as a marketing tool. The thing is so widely available from GuideStar Charity Navigator Attorneys general, Probably your own website. Let the nine ninety promote your work. That’s what the webinar helps you with. Wagner cps dot com Quick seminars, Then go to April. Now, time for Tony’s Take two be the one. This was inspired by a re union that I attended and had a hand in Ah of Air Force of former Air Force missile ears. We were all working in the Reagan years on Minuteman. Two nuclear missiles were all missile operators at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, and we got together way left there in the late eighties. We’ve been together a couple times, but only eyes our third time. So ah, lot of people haven’t been seen for years, and some even never even came to their other reunions. But the idea of everyone coming together, um, sharing old stories coming together like like it had been just a week. And for some, it’s been thirty years since we’ve seen them, but that common bond. So I encourage youto get people together from the different phases of your life, whether it’s elementary school, high school, college, whatever. Grad school, military neighborhood. If you’ve got ah, if you’ve got this, I don’t know. Affinity group sounds kind of formal, but if you’ve got these group of people, these folks who know each other and shared something, it’s such fun to get them together. It’s rewarding. It’s gratifying. It’s just it feels like being a kid again. Do it, do it. That’s what the video is about and you’LL find that video at tony martignetti dot com That is Tony’s Take two Now that a hundred percent of your donors complete their online gif ts u want to welcome them the right way? Here’s that from twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen NTC non-profit Technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This nineteen ninety si interview, like all of ours, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are brenholz homes and Chrissy hyre. They’re both with Chapman, cubine and Husi. Brenna, seated next to me is vice president for digital services and Chrissy is vice president Innovation Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back to each of you. You, you and Brenna has disclosed that thes these interviews have a secondary purpose for her. Chrissy, I’m sorry. Kinda married. That’s not Christy. Christy has disclosed there’s they have a dating. They have dating power. They do so definitely. Come on the show. Yeah, because your your dates will google you. They will find your non-profit radio interview. Yeah, and when they do that? I want you to inquire about the host. I’m really not interested in what they thought of your performance, What they think about the host and then let me know if it’s positive on Lee was not positive. It’s not positive. Silence is best. Just carry on with your date after that ostomel of that. That’s it. But we’re not talking about dating. We’re talking about making them well, we are actually making love you. Yeah, welcoming donors the right way is your your session topic. Um so, Chrissy, what a zoho overview. What are non-profits not getting quite right about welcoming? Let’s start with first time donors and will evolve in the conversation from there. But what we’re not doing quite right. Yeah, So I mean, you know, Brenna says this really Well, actually, but you really only get one chance to make a first impression. And so one of the things that a lot of organizations don’t do particularly well is showing folks exactly how much they care about the gift that folks are giving to them. And so, you know, one of the things that we really focused on our session today was thinking through. What are the ways that you connect people back to your mission back to the work that you’re doing, making them really understand the impact of the gift that they’ve just given and building that connection in that relationship so that they’re ready to take that to the next level, so to speak and give you another gift? Okay, on Brenda, how do we get started thinking about this process that we have for for donors? Yeah, think about everything from multi-channel perspective very much, not just the channel they gave the gift in, but really talking to them in multitude of ways. Because, as you know, everybody’s over saturated in lots and lots of media on DH non-profits have to do more and more to stay top of mind, get keep that good feeling moving forward to maintain that share of wallet as well. So the first thing that you start with, like especially for online donors, very appropriate here for Auntie Si is making sure that you’re customizing the confirmation page and the auto respond or email to that donation. A lot of it is just like the default setting. Non-profits never remembered a change on just updating that can go very long way customizing the confirmation page and the acknowledgement letter that yeah latto respondent your mail going a little bit further and adding direct mail into the mix by sending your online donors direct mail. Acknowledgement letter goes even more like We love that wonderful. Now I did have a panel just maybe an hour or so ago. I want half ago. That said, you know you want to keep your donation process streamlined, Ask a few questions possible now, in order to get the the direct mail address. That’s going to be another level of questions you have to ask. Well, no, You mean you pretty much can’t make a credit card donation without putting in the billing address anyways, so it’s already part of the foreign fields to process again. OK, well, not according to those two guys. I guess it depends on the platform. Two friends on your processor, I guess. Sure, right? Yeah, they were saying they were pretty clear that you do not have to ask for address. You can, but you don’t have to. The majority of non-profit websites today do they do rice. But their point was, that’s not the best idea. Right, But But now so well. But this is not in conflict, right? We gotta bring this tio black and white. Everything not so clear. So, you know, I mean, you’re saying that’s a lycan ideal process. Ideal practice. Acknowledging an online gift, I’LL find through the mail offline. Okay, there could be another way of acknowledging that online gift could be through phone. A phone number could be another way. Okay, uh, Wes life calls. Auto House. Okay. Latto caught was latto calls. Yes, was a pre recorded call very inexpensive that, like the executive director of the organization, can record. And you send that to all of your new donors to welcome them to the organism. Thank them and welcome them. Yep. Okay. Interesting. Um, okay, Uh, I’m not sure. So we’re way. Start with audit of our current process. Always a place to start. Okay. What are we looking for? What? Some common sticking points and bad practices that we want to be conscious. Seldman are loaded. So we’re looking at, like, what already goes out, right? What’s the default? So again, for online donors, there is the default confirmation page. That’s usually very receipt transactional basis that has all of the semi critical information from the processors point of view. But it’s not very donor-centric on DH. It certainly doesn’t show the impact that the gift is going to make for the non-profit who’s receiving the donation. Same thing with that otter responder email. It’s generally plain text, very receipt based. Well, we want to do is build out stewardship touches like turned these receipts into nurtured opportunities so that people are bonding with the organization and moving past that transactional relationship. Same thing with their direct mail receipts. You know, most organizations send them out, at least to their direct male donors, if not also to their online donors. But you can improve upon the look and feel of that package, make it really stand out in the mailbox so that it doesn’t look like one of your fund-raising appeals. Or it doesn’t look like a bill from, you know, your health insurance company or anything else right on DH. Just show that love right up front. No one has ever said, Stop thanking me like in the history of effort, So that’s something that we’re constantly trying to reinforce with that, and then the newer, like the newer channels, all of the innovation with SMS and auto calls, or even live calling like those air usually add on so they wouldn’t show up in your audit. But they’re nice iterations to go above and beyond on DK and be done with volunteers and things like that out of my Mahler’s remembers. I love a working board. Yeah, put him to work, Christie. What you wantto I mean, I think that that’s exactly right. Everything Brenna said. I think the one thing to consider and your audit as well is making sure is, Brennan noted, at the top of our conversation about that multi-channel experience. So just because someone is giving online, don’t assume they don’t want to hear from you offline. You know, a lot of us almost all of our media interactions are happening in on a screen. And so to actually get that piece of paper is something that people really remember really means a lot to them, and it’s significant. The other thing is, don’t be afraid to reach people on their phone to think them. You know, a lot of people have sort of a bad taste in their mouth about what telemarketing is. Nobody’s gonna be upset if you call them to say thank you. And nobody’s gonna be upset if you text them to say thank you. And if you text them to say thank you, they’re definitely gonna see and they’re definitely gonna remember it. Okay, Um, so after we have our audit, what’s our next step? We got it. We got to start improving improving our practices. Copy. Maybe a little bit of time. Couple steps in time. Your creative Seymour Brennan. Yeah. So it’s, you know, it is about building up the that content into both being relevant for that specific donorsearch for Don’t hurt I ppe Did they make a one time gift at what dollar value did that dollar value kicked them into e-giving circle of some level. And then you need to acknowledge that in a separate way, you can also use the type of appeal that they responded Teo to enforce. Thank you. Copy as well. So like, did they respond to something about puppy mills versus something about horse meat? Like having that content flow through into the acknowledgement program and into the welcome Siri’s afterwards to keep them going tohave a next action opportunity eyes A fantastic way to start. Is it right that our first time donorsearch retention read? Uh, non-profit wide is like around twenty five percent. We typically see closer to a third to being healthy, but oh, I’m going down. I’m citing how bad it is. Yeah, it has been going down is going down. It is going on the wrong direction we got. And that’s honestly, like a lot of that data is coming out around the last few quarters of twenty twenty eighteen. So there’s a lot of reasons right now as we kick off year to start really thinking about how you’re bonding people to the organizations that you’re fund-raising for. All right. All right. Um, we’ll also talk about designing a multi-channel welcome and nurture nurture. Siri’s is that Is that basically what we’re talking about? Our nurture. Siri’s a little bit. I mean, I think I think the acknowledgement process should be part of that nurture mint, right. It’s the first interaction for a lot of organizations post that gift. The first outbound communications and a lot of ways s oh, it’s a natural bridge to the welcome Siri’s and kind of steward that stewarding them throughout that relationship. So longfield we should not be setting anything and forgetting about it. Everything needs to be very conscious decisions about what copy we’re sending to who, what content they’re getting when on the touchpoint. I mean, all of the data that we have shows that the more of those pieces of touch our personally identifiable information right, like whether it’s postal address or email address or phone number, the more of those contact point that we have on for a constituent hyre their retention will be and the hyre their value will be to the organization on a lifetime level. So, like while it might be easier to not get that postal address, I want that postal address. There’s so much more value. Okay? Yeah, You know what? There there are other Point was don’t do it in the donation. All right, that’s in the donation on the donation pages. Waken ask for that later on that they may be right after the gift is made. Would you like to share your your mail? Now that makes it option over. Okay, Right. But then it raises the question of why, right? You which you have to have a good answer, would like to be able to think we’d like to be able to send you something. I don’t know. All right, but, you know, incentive based. Thank you. They’re always like people love swag. So you could do that. That’s definitely an office sticker and done in Dustin. Yeah, okay. What they done Injustice e. Did you get dates with the kind of lines like that? This’s kind of witty banter like that. Future dates or watching? Amazing. Oh, my God. You’re turning right there. Okay, so I just realized I just put two and two together. You that’s gonna happen in the future, too, is not only in the past. Oh, my God. And this is going to be more relevant. More, more. It’s a more recent about making love you. So in other words, what do you think of the host? That’s what I want to know. Okay. Uh, Christy date. What do you think of the host? Keep which it’s Tony. As tony martignetti dot com is the best way. Or you can use the contact page at tony martignetti dot com from and I never hear from you again. I think the time you said I think, think of the time I’m saving you. Thank you so much if they come, if they beating you up, I feel about you know if if they make it through over this threshold, right and you know that it’s it’s really more than yeah, it’s more than superficial thinking past this. They say they watch the whole video like we haven’t gotten into a ton of things, but I can try to learn more. We’LL see Next time just roughly halfway in thistle happened roughly twelve minute mark. So? So if they hear this, they making twelve minute mark. You know, I think there’s potential definitely beyond the average. Definitely all right time for our last break text to give. Get their five part email. Many course to dispel myths around mobile giving. You know donations don’t have to go through the donors phone company that puts a cap on GIF ts. There’s a smarter way with no cap. Mobile giving does not have to be limited to single or double digit gif ts. To get the email. Many course. Dispel the myths you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. We’ve got lots more time for welcome your donors the right way. Okay, so we’re, like only halfway in. So what else do we need to talk about if you don’t? Your panel yet? We did it. So one third, seventy five minutes. Talking about what else? What else? On Let’s broaden it a little bit now. So not on ly first time donors, but volunteermatch comes a donor. Small, small gift donorsearch a mid level or higher level donor. What do we need to do to make them love us? Chrissy? Yeah. So I think this is actually really great question. So thank you for asking. It s o. You know, essentially, I think that there are ways Tio Tio integrate people into new parts of our organization. I think one of the easiest things for folks to understand is upgrading folks to monthly giving. And how do you start to think those people in a way that feels really special and bonds them to that program you already know? They’re exceptionally bonded to the work that you’re doing. And so how do you start to think them in a way that makes them feel like, Oh, my gosh. Now we’re part of an even more special piece of this community, right? So, you know, in our session, we talked a lot about you know, when you, for example, are thinking a monthly donor. Often do you want to thank them? Do you wantto Brenda calls it waking the bear. You know, where you kind of like your calling out to them? Do you want to tell them? Every month you’re giving me a monthly gift, and then, you know, where do you want? Oh, yeah. You know, you want to take him every month. I mean, so there we were talking about it also talked about splitting the baby there because there are philosophical differences and conversations there. I think the that standard used to be Don’t wake the bear, right? Don’t remind them that they’re giving every month they will leave. Oh, my gosh, that can’t be it anymore. We all have so many subscriptions in our life, whether it’s Netflix or Lulu or you know, all of these things, that if they don’t feel good about it, then when the card expires or is stolen or core compromised not going to bother and I drop them might drop it, right? So So we had some people in this action that we’re talking about quarterly, right? Maybe kind of following up in a different way, a different time period. So it’s not every month, but I think you can do monthly as long as you are using it as a nurture touchpoint. It’s not just a receipt like you don’t want anything you give to your donors to just be a throwaway effort. If you’re taking the time to send it, you wanted to actually mean something to them. So if it’s literally just a receipt, how much value does that really provide? Like not a lot. OK, so something impactful for that month. Way reached. Yeah, I don’t know. Nothing’s coming to mind, but that’s why you’re the consultants in that. And I’m the consultant plan e-giving. Yeah, you know, one of the go ahead. You know, I’m just flushing out why I don’t have an answer. I don’t no more. No more detailed needed on that. I don’t have a suggestion, I should say, Well, one of the things that you know could be a really impactful way to leverage that Thank you. Moment is to kind of look at your sustainers file in winter, people the most likely to fall off of your file and then take that opportunity to do, like an exceptional thankyou. So we see you lose a lot after between one, three and four, right? Exactly. So maybe that’s the month where you send that hand written note. That’s like we know you are. We love you. We see you right? If you already you’re sending tote bags or calendars in your acquisition or something like that. Leveraging that with a special note two two sustainers at the quarter mark for the six month mark way have clients that do, like all out at your anniversary. Your thank you for being here for one year with us, you know, making it about them. There was miles so now and then again, tying it to the impact and, like people want to make impact and they want to feel important. And that’s true whether this is their first ten dollars gift or their thousand dollar gift or their one million dollar gift. And so figuring out the way that you say thank you that feels like they’re making that difference, that that matters. That’s part of a good donor experience, you know, And I think that carries through whether it’s sustainers or like an event volunteer who’s becoming a donor for the first time. That’s a different level of engagement with the organization and the fact that they have that history already with you eyes very powerful. And so, if you can reference that relationship in the content as well, that will go much further and building strengthening that relationship in the long term. Um, a lot of this subsumed in what we’re talking about is having these systems systems in place on DH, constantly tweaking them. Voice just cracked like I’m a fourteen year old is coming twelve fourteen. You gotta have these systems in place and somebody will be monitoring them. Christie, to your point, you know you can’t just set it and forget it. Or one of you said that I’m sorry, whose you bring up, but, um okay, so who’s responsible for these systems? Is this is this is in the development to Development department depends on the non-profit. It’s definitely a collaboration between, like some level and development marketing each non-profit is configured in a different, slightly different way. So, like, who owns things would change, But yeah, the data is really important on and having a two directional or multidirectional sink of key data components so that you can condition allies content based on those relationships from other channels. In other words, like sinking between your cr m and your email Exactly. Your texture responded. Yep. Yeah, and vice versa to write. If we are sending those offline acknowledgements toe online donors, you need that level of information. Ideally, there’s some source codes in there. So you know what sort of relationship they had with you before Andi, you know what sort of appeal? Our issue they came in on. So again, Was it dog me? Are you know, brovey meals are? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that’s all very important. You don’t have the infrastructure setting that I always like. You know, you got to get your house in order before you invite people over, right? And that’s more about acquisition costs. But data is also super important. Like you can’t. You can start and then build and have a plan to scale because everybody can’t do everything right away. But you got to start with clean data. So can I ask a question? Is that not OK in this setting? Okay, So beat you up so much. How could I possibly say no to im those now, everyone? Yeah, Kristie hyre non-profit. So, like, what would you say about, like, not letting am not letting great be the enemy of good. So, like, invokes air. Just like we we don’t have the bandwidth for all of the data collection or all of the data sank. Like, where? Where is that starting point? Yeah, well, I mean, I think it depends on where you’re getting most of your gifts into, Like, what channel? You want to start with the focus on right, Because bang for the buck. If you’re If most of your gifts are checks in the mail, let’s focus on those confirmation acknowledgement letters, the receives and and the welcome kit direct mail package kind of offline pieces. So you don’t have to worry about the email side of the world if the date is not playing nicely right away. Vice versa. Obviously, here at ntcdinosaur mary-jo online focused, you start on the online site and Luckily with the online stuff you usually have the the thinks like you don’t need to sing because your email marketing system is in the same system. Is your donation processing system doesn’t have to be right plugging You could have a husband spoke solutions at that point, too. But for most of them, they are most of our clients, especially so you can excuse me. You can live also going over, yeah, latto happening at this table. A lot of personal latto personal, something momentous person and not a cheap hormones. So you can. You can create a somewhat cohesive donor experience with siloed channels. It is possible it just takes a lot more like work on an ongoing basis. In Official, it’s very inefficient. So I get out. You know, we talk about how much work it takes to set up the process in the beginning, to get a multi-channel like really integrated surround sound campaign happening. But if you’re not doing that, you’re putting in the leg work all the time to make sure that you don’t sound like two different organizations. An email indirectly, that’s very bad practice. Yeah, have some of the questions were some of the questions you got in your session that you thought were particularly interesting or I don’t know if they could be provocative, but interesting is good. Yeah. WeII did get questions about, like, just testing. What tide of creative treatments. People should focus their time on to test on DH. Tarsem. It depends, obviously, depends on the channel, but I think a lot of it for anything that will email and direct mail. Specifically, it’s trying to get people into the content in the first place. So whether it’s your subject line and send her name and email or your teaser on your outer envelope in the mail, both of those air very similar from a user experience standpoint on their very low bar. Easy tweak tests. Teammate teasers on outer envelopes. They work. Oh, they’re so important. They do? Yeah, that’s a good one example of a couple of good ones. I mean, for our for acknowledgements. Thank you. Gift receipt and close. Like, very clear. Okay, this is not an appeal, right? All right, we’ve got for acquisition. Oh, God, we’re off. We’re off on your own time. But I’ve always wondered about this, because when I see these things, and it’s not at all what I do know. What’s a good Christy? What’s a good acquisition? Uh, what do you call these on? The outer sabelo Theo. Good acquisition. What kind of depends on what’s inside or the organization. But anything that talks about matching gift urgent. Well, urgent. Open immediately that work. Sure, people respond to that Second notice reminder. Special gift enclosed for free gift. Yeah, free gift and clothes. I could notice that I didn’t notice. We’Ll stamp like reminders. They have the stamp it rough. It looks like it was damned. Yeah, Looks like it was a hand written. Oh, anything. Anything that looks like a human touched it. We call it the power of the paper clip because like, you can’t machine that. So if it anything that feels like humans have touched it will automatically get more attention. But it is a machine printing that Oh, yeah, but it looks like you’re just trying to create the experience of life came off their desk. But you people believe that mean yes, we’re not wear not I do believe this stuff like a human actually wrote that or somebody’s coming. Somebody had a stamp on ink pad and a stamp. I think it depends on the size of the organization. Like somebody’s probably not going to believe it as easily from AARP, but they will believe it from their local U S P c A. Well, so it just depends. Yeah. Alright. I’m really surprised that second notice open open urgently. Renewal is a very powerful word as well. So having renew does well yeah, renew your membership right on the teeth. Er, something like that. Okay, we’re hearing everything. You’re turning those. The winner was the other one Free. Free? Yeah. Just just a word. Free Well attached to something so free. Some very powerful words. Just free. Just wait. Just wait, OK? We got another, like, two minute and a half or so two minutes. What? What else? What else? Questions. Other question. They were good. Oh, gosh. You know, I feel like a lot of people had questions. Agent about sort of what it meant to take their online. Thank you. Experience offline. Dahna Few. There was a lot of questions about printing and paper. Yeah, favorite. Everyone’s favorite. Well, cause some of its first. So some organizations like conservation organizations are very paper free on DH. So but having the numbers that actually show that people who give to receive packages to acknowledgment gifts are better donors than people who don’t can make the case to the board members or to your CFO or whoever else that, like we really should think about this at some level. Maybe we’re not mailing every online donor. Maybe it’s not five dollar donors or ten dollar donors, but maybe at the fifty dollar donors level, those folks are like, worth that added investment. So having that numbers to back it up is really helpful, and any time you could decrease the time to second gift is huge on. Typically, most non-profits see one gift a year on average, whatever time of year that is. If it’s not sustainers. If you khun, change that twelve months between first and second gift to two months between first and second gift because people you have a greater lifetime value and hyre retention we’re seeing, I mean, especially with new donors, because they’re giving habits haven’t been cemented. Get we’re seeing anywhere from forty five to sixty five percent hyre retention rates across the board and hyre values. So it’s amazing. Okay. Okay. Christy, I’m gonna give you last words, like, fifteen seconds of motivation about, you know, making them love you. Oh, gosh. Well, that’s a lot of pressure. I know. You know, I think that if you don’t know where to start, just say thank you. Say thank you every way you can say it sincerely and say in a way that really means a lot to the folks who have given you their time, their money, their actions, whatever that looks like. It really goes a long way to improve your donor’s experience. All right, that was Chrissy hyre. She’s vice president of Innovation, Chapman, cubine and Husky. And sitting next to me is Brenda Homes, Vice president, Digital services Also at Chapman cubine, Cassie. And you are with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen Auntie Si twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. This interview, Like all of ours this year brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Come see. Ch is in sponsoring brovey radio. That is a great question to bring them when you bring that back to back to back to the main office way. We’LL do that. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Next week, Google grants with the head of Google. Add grants Michelle her Tato, also from nineteen. Auntie Si. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Pursuant online Tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven technology enabled Tony dahna em a slash pursuing capital P. Wagner CP is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternate network e-giving Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Theo Best Designs for your Life Start at home. I’m David here. Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at eight p. M. Eastern Time As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more listen live at our new time on Thursdays at twelve noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant, Our Awakening Humanity. 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Nonprofit Radio for March 22, 2019: Retain Your Subscribers

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Robert Skrob: Retain Your Subscribers
Is your churn too high? Conversion too low? Credit card problems getting in the way? Robert Skrob is author of the book “Retention Point,” and he reveals strategies to keep your monthly sustaining donors engaged–for life.




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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week. It’s Kyle Tharp. I did not meet Kyle. He could not make the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference where I was last week with the show in important Oregon. But he implored two of his co workers to take a picture with me and they got past my security, accosted me. And of course, you know, they showed such brazenness and they were so ah, apologetic for pushing my a security aside that I relented and I gave them a selfie. Uh, so I’m grateful to Kyle that Ah, he could I’m sorry he couldn’t make the conference, but he wanted to have a picture so bad. Eso Thank you, Carl. You are our listener Over the week. Kyle Tharp Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer oto and try this if I heard the idea that you missed today’s show. Retain your subscribers. Is your churned too high conversion to low credit card problems getting in the way. Robert Scrub is author of the book Retention Point and he reveals strategies to keep your monthly sustaining. Donors engaged for life Tony Steak to thankyou ActBlue and and ten were sponsored by PURSUANT full Service, fund-raising Data Driven and Technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By Tello’s Turning credit card Processing into your passive revenue stream, Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine It’s a pleasure to welcome Robert Scrub to the show. He is a specialist in membership program turnarounds, transforming sick programs, losing ten percent to as much as twenty percent of their members each month to keeping members for years and even decades for life. He’s consulted with more than forty seven associations, creating marketing campaigns for membership conferences, sponsorships and events for dozens of different industries, including non-profits. He’s at Robert Scrub and robert scrub dot com. Welcome to the show, Robert. I’m so proud to be here, Tony and my goodness, I knew I would break through your security to get a selfie as well. You want great opportunity that well, it’s only know too well It’s four guys. It zbig challenge. But the’s too small. Folks from from from Kyle’s office were able to do it. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Not everybody would be so bold. That wellit’s Tony martignetti. I mean, it’s it’s it’s worth. It’s worth. It’s worth risking incarceration. I think I had a bottle. Yeah, yeah. Potential bottle injury. Write thie. Guys are not the guys not strapped, so there’s no weapons. Well, there’s no guns. And about anyway, I won’t. I won’t go so far to say there’s no weapons, but there’s no guns. So you’re saying you don’t want to disclose exactly what it is because you know that Would Justin Jangers, your own security that would that would put them at risk? We can methods and tactics. Is that What is that? What? Our justice. Methods and methods and sources, methods and sources. I cannot reveal methods and sources. That’s well, it’s a pleasure being on the program. Thank you, Robert. Thank you. Put it. All right, we’ve got to have you glad to have you the retention point. We’re talking about retaining s o. We’re applying your your, uh, mostly corporate principles, but not exclusively. I know you don’t work with non-profits, but we want to apply this to monthly sustaining donors. So, um, give us, like, the overview of water. And we have, Of course, we have an hour together. So what? What? Where the, like, the main pressure point. So what could we like? Overviewing big picture be doing better with our monthly sustaining donors. And And I’ve had the pleasure of working with non-profits for twenty five years. And yes, a lot of what I’ve learned and applied has actually come from the for-profit world of membership. But you’re back in the day. All of this was non-profits, and what I found was that well, you know, backward was all hundred percent annual renewal. That you are first year renewal rate was always the load. You know, if we had kind of an average renewal rate of eighty five percent, then maybe the first year renewal rate would be fifty percent, and then subsequently would be ninety four, ninety eight percent for years, two, three, four, five, and so really kind of set out to figure out what the heck’s going on here. And, you know, eventually I just kind of I actually moved the finish line. So rather than congratulating ourselves on the back for grating a new member, we didn’t really count them as a member who we gave him all the benefits. And yeah, of course, we can’t have a member. But all the incentives, all the rewards were for renewal of the first year of the member rather than the first day they joined. So that now the game became What are we going to do over the first year of their membership to get that first renewal? Yeah, and by maximizing renewal and even, well, moving that first year renewal from fifty five or fifty percent upto fifty five or sixty percent. Now, you’ve increased your membership rates by ten percent or twenty percent. Yeah, yeah. So just by focusing on this one area, how are we going to onboarding are minu members? And get that renewal? You can increase your overall membership revenue by ten or twenty percent of straight off the bat and in the retention point, that’s really what we focus on, in particular with monthly members membership. You needn’t have less time you got You know, the first thirty days are really even the first thirty minutes to engage that member. Get them Mohr excited in over the next twenty nine days. Then they were the day they joined. Yeah, And you said the first thirty minutes even, and we’re gonna we’re gonna get to the member on ramp, Uh, all all and do all in due time, all in good time. All in good time. I’m going to send my pretty, but all in good time. Um so the so the the retention point. How would you How would you defend his title? The book. How would you define the retention point? What does What does that mean? Well, all of us have members that we couldn’t get rid of. Even if we want Teo there. They’re so excited. They are so engaged. There are top refers. They’re passionate about what we have to offer and they wanna volunteer and participate. Now, Roger Rabbit, let me ask you a question. Do you Do you know the book Zombie loyalists buy part? I have not heard. Okay, Well, it’s related. I thought of it several times. I was reading your book. He’s been on this ship while he was on the show. Once, and I’ve replayed it many times. The book’s title is Zombie Loyalists. The author is Peter Shankman, and he talks about the the people that are so committed to your brand that they are zombies. They’re zombies for your brand, and they will go out and do your marketing. Your PR. You’re advertising your social media for you. That’s how much they love your brand and his. So he’s in marketing and PR and his job. His His work is getting people so in love with your brand that they become zombies for zombie loyalists. He calls them. So it’s just it’s related. You may, you may be interested in. Listeners have heard him many times because, like I said, he’s been on treyz online once, like twenty, fourteen or fifteen, and I’ve played him every December or January since then. Anyway, I interrupted you, defining the retention point for us. I’m going to do that. I’m going to that often. So expect my point that they become that your zombie loyal okay, And how do you do that more often and you want to see, like where I got the idea was from Netflix, where you know, you know they have their streaming shows, and what they have found is that they have what they call a hooked episode. Which is, you know, for instance, were oranges new black. There are twelve episodes there about an hour long, so that’s a lot of lot of So yeah, but what they have identified is that the third episode, if somebody watches that seventy percent of the people who watch the third episode will finish the entire season. Yeah, that was really that was really interesting. Some on the same night, others, you know, over the course of the next couple of weeks. But yeah, that they they will go through, go through the end. And that’s what we want to do with your non-profit is figure out what that point is that they are so hooked and then accelerate. That gets into that point. And the same way that Netflix does, where he’s got a study plot, they study character development, figure out what makes the hooked episode work. We want to dissect how your non-profit work so that we could figure out that key place that gets folks hooked and engaged. Yeah, that was that. I found that very interesting that Netflix Hook hook episode. They know that for each different Siri’s, which which is which is the hook and right, And you’re you’re objective of the book is to accelerate that retention point. Like you said, you you want to see, like, seventy to eighty percent of members staying for life, right? And by the way, we just have, like, a minute or so before our first break. Yeah, absolutely. And And what I found is that that’s completely doable on DH. It’s really focused on status roll. Making it all about how you make your members feel about your membership rather than what you deliver. Yeah, Yeah. You know, that’s one of your one of your accelerator’s. Isn’t that one of the ten? No question. Yeah, Feelings are more important than content. Or so I’m paraphrasing it. Sorry, I don’t have I don’t I don’t bring the book in front because otherwise I’ll be tempted to quote, ask you to read from page sixty two so I don’t do that. But what do you accept? You have ten accelerators and one of them is that feelings? What feelings? Trump content or something? You say it. Please It’s not about what you deliver, but it’s about what you do ever. How it makes your members makes people feel right. All right, all right. We’re gonna come back. We got to take this first break pursuant. Their newest free book is the art of First Impressions. It’s about donorsearch. Hopefully, you’re going to be doing less acquisition. You’re going to need to do less acquisition with their monthly sustainers because you’re going to be keeping more of them. You still going to some acquisition? Always. But you’re not going to be so reliant on it. But for other parts of your fund-raising, you’d be multi-channel, right? You’re fund-raising for attracting new donors, making his smashing first impression. That’s where you want this e book. Ah, the art of first impressions. You’LL find it on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Pursuant. Remember the capital p for please? Okay, let’s go back to retain your subscribers. All right, um, you say that the, uh, relationship begins after the sale, would you Would you flush that out, please? Yes, Absolutely. The You know, a lot of times we think of, you know, a lot of organizations are focused on members after Mecca member acquisition. And, you know, when they get a new member, often they’re moving right on to the next one. And I’ve had conversations with multiple organizations are like, Yeah, we used to send out a member welcome kit. And then we stopped. We didn’t really see a benefit in it. And that is absolute killer, like there are other than they’re they’re ending the relationship once the person comes on board, right, that it’s like the end. Okay, we’re done with done with her. Let’s move to our next acquisition. Just like a series of one night stand. Yeah, like dating metaphors were not even calling them like way. They gave us their money, they suddenly participate. And then, boom, we move on to the next one, right? Forget about that relationship. Well, there’s money involved that those of the transactions I’m most familiar with in dating, but the money transfers, but I prefer not. I keep that in my therapy sessions. Yeah, yeah, So please don’t ask me any more questions about that now, So So go ahead. You know, there s so that they get the person, and then they move on to the next. But you say that’s antithetical to what you should be doing. Absolutely double down on the most of the time. Your customers are more real excited when they joined. They have this anticipation and then the kind of the excitement wanes over time. And what do you want instead, is the curtain to go up? He wants more excited and engaged about your organization thirty days after they joined, then the day they joined. And also your like your confirmation email that you son, as a result of them buying that will be the highest open rate of any email. Any message that you’LL ever son anyone. So why not make that all about your You remember your mission? How how that membership is going to help them feel, you know, some of the things that I’ve done with other organisations as well even make that email also inviting the member upgrade their level of contributions OK, that you can use just a small percentage take you up on it. It can totally transformed the economics of your new member funnel. Okay, you said a couple things there, which I have trouble remembering sometimes multiple subjects So one of them I want to touch on one that I want to touch on is that that’s the highest. That’s the most red thing that you’LL ever send. And the other is oh, asking, asking for a small upgrade. But then you got a straddle a fence of not having them feel that what they just did is insufficient for you. So let me take the first one and hopefully you can remember the second one to, um, there’s a good chance I’ll forget it. Um, what was the first one you see now? I forgot the first one. The first one was that the open races over? Yeah. Yeah, confirmation. I’ve worked with clients. Now I do. I do plan to giving fund-raising very different than the type of fund-raising that we’re talking about here. But I’ve seen you know, those thank you notes. Um, and they look like they look like tax receipts. You know, it’s s O. When I read that, I didn’t know that that was the most opened communication that you’LL ever send. But, I mean, I recognize that the clients were squandering an opportunity to be to have the person feel warm and and, um, Susan about the gift that they had just made. It should not be a tax receipt, but all the more if that’s the one thing that their most most likely to read. You know, don’t squander that opportunity on a by citing an internal revenue code section that justifies their charitable deduction. Well, and all the your relationships that involved money. When the person who receives the money calls the next day and says, Thank you, I appreciate you and what you’ve done has created a huge impact. Then there you’re going to help them feel good about spending money with you. Yeah, that’s one of the things you recommend for the for the on ramp, right? You say it could be a could be a call. Yeah, it certainly can be a call, But even if it’s on ly an email that that message you should be about confirming how brilliant that person wass on helping recognizing them for it. Okay, Right to the most most opened. Where is that? What you said is the most opened communication you’LL send. Yeah, you’re open. Rates on your confirmation email are higher than any other open rate. Very often. It’s like eighty percent open rate on that, you know, buyers, confirmation email. Okay, in-kind goodness, We’re going to get eighty percent of our people of recipients open it. Let’s make it good. Yeah, Don’t squander it. Right. Okay. Turns out I did remember the second thing, But thanks for potentially helping me out. How do you straddle? Asking for a little bit of an upgrade with, ah, not making the person feel that what they just committed to as a monthly sustainers is insufficient. And like the organization is not grateful. Well, I think the key is having your focus on the member and the emotional reasons the member gave in the first place and helping them get more of that. There’s nobody who’s children went hungry last night is becoming your member today. Yeah, this is a luxury pitches that’s made because of the feelings that it creates and, you know, just the same way that Louis Vuitton purses double the cost of a coach first. It’s not because Louie Baton first has more pockets or higher quality leather. It’s all about how that first makes the person who carries that feel about themselves with when they when they have it. And that’s the same, which is tragic. But we’LL talk about that tragic and tragic and shallow, but I’m not going opine on that. Well, it’s, but it’s human nature. You know who you are. What status rolls is something that’s very impolitely talk about. But it’s critical to understand and put in the forefront in particular for non-profits, because the reason people join you’re become a member of your charity versus becoming just a normal donorsearch are a member of your museum versus a donor is because you have a special member line and they’re treated differently. And so now they get the status improvement of being able to go in the short line versus waiting long. Or they’LL become a donor because because they want their name on a plaque or a bigger plan, or they want they want a table instead of buying a ticket because they want not certainly they want to support you. You, But more than that, if they want their friends to see them supporting you and they want to be ableto Oh, I have a table at this benefit. Would you like to come? You know, having those opportunities to demonstrate there that they that there’s so successful that they can contribute money to an organization like yours and that that makes them a better and more important person. That’s where the reasons why people are donating and it’s crucial that we don’t feel embarrassed about talking about Yeah, that’s interesting. You know, it is good to talk about it. It’s gets to ego and self image, gets to the psychosocial underbelly of charitable donations. Okay, and and the real drivers of it, you go back to your question, you know, how do we make them feel good about the contribution that they’ve made while also giving them the opportunity to contribute more? It’s Hey, a lot of a lot of members who joined really enjoy that to become part of the Gold Club or, you know, this is You know, if you’d like more information about that, you can click here it just some sort of subtle, uh, to show that there is another status, a level of status and recognition within the club of yours, the same way that when somebody buys a brand new Harley Davidson, the other usually you know, they they want to They also want the leather and they want the, you know, upgrade because you know, the people within that social circle recognized that the motorcycle that’s been customized with chrome or a special paint job on the gas tank is, you know, Mohr of that social circle, then somebody who hasn’t bothered to do that, you know, we’re just simply giving them that opportunity. Become Mohr of our kruckel. Harley Davidson is one of the examples you use as a as a luxury brand in the book. Yeah, it had been a client is they’ve been a client of mine since two thousand three that Harley Davidson dealers of Florida. And it’s that when somebody buys a hardly, if you know there’s things are priced and a more expensive than any other motorcycle you could buy. And yet they represent fifty percent of all sales within their category. There’s not another luxury brands that represents fifty percent of the market share, and you’re not buying a Harley because it transports you better that a Honda, it doesn’t go any faster. They’re not Harley on ly lane. I mean, there’s no practical reason why it would be, you know, deserving of the increased premium and price. It’s all about how it makes the person who ride that, how it makes them feel about themselves. And that’s the same with your non-profit. One of your accelerators is it’s always about them. And another one is Your value is the feelings you deliver. Not the stuff that that’s the one you mentioned earlier, but yeah, it’s it’s ah, it’s about the feeling. Okay, I got you. All right? Uh, yeah. Good. Something want to air? Do you want me to move us along? Well, And then the only other thing with that kind of goes along with that is how do we change the way they feel about themselves? You know, we talk a little bit about transformations and you are we able, you know, like a Harley Rider. You go. You can go from somebody who is not recognized by anybody that, you know, They kind of feel obscure, mean. All of us feel like we’re smarter than most people in particular. Utah, I mean, deservedly so. Why don’t just feel it? I know it. I mean, it’s object, its objectivity Elf out there better than average. It’s not just my feeling its objective fact sametz provable. We also nobody’s. Isn’t it true that were overlooked that were disrespecting? We feel that others aren’t giving us the thehe tension that we that we should be receiving. And, you know, with a Harley Rider, you could go from being this, you know, mechanic, that nobody pays attention to or a junior lawyer that, you know, nobody likes to know are some government bureaucrats. And you walk out of that Harley dealership, you ride your motorcycle and you got your leather on. And now all the sites in Europe a bad dude, right? And people were afraid of you, okay? And you they have been able to transform themselves, you know, almost like a Clark Kent Superman in a phone booth. They could go into Aah! Harley dealerships and come out this amazing with this amazing self image. And those transformations are what we want to be able to deliver within our organization to increase retention. So let’s bring that back to non-profit. So how do you create that kind of transformation when you know the person is not donning a suit or, you know, riding a bike? But, you know, they’re supporting charitable work. Whether it’s a local, why or it’s saving whales or hyre children or feeding the hungry. You know, how do you create that transformation when it’s it’s services that you’re providing toe other other parties? Sure. Well, I had the pleasure on honor of working with charity water for a little bit last year, and they work with. They provide water and wells to of people in Africa. And one of the things that we found in the year that they had long since found in the research is that it’s their offer allowed. Younger people, in particular their their demographic, attract millennials more than anybody. But it helped that person feel like they were doing something important for somebody that that couldn’t, you know, that couldn’t take care of themselves, gave them this feeling that they were connected to the world and that they were contributing to making the world a better place. And so they really were there. Those donors were really were kind of going through the Clark can’t phone Booth Superman sort of feeling where your charity water was, giving them the opportunity to be part of this mission to change the world that everybody deserves clean water and that there’s six million people that don’t have it. And you could be part of, uh, that’s something a solution. And so it’s making your charity and what you deliver helping helping them be part of this mission and enabling the feel amazing because they do that you use charity water in the book as an example of the the relationship after the sale. Um, talk about the one of the things that is in that section is the members save sequence. What is that? So when there’s several technical things that that for-profit publishers, I know how to do very well that non-profits are really pretty oblivious to and, for instance, to talk. If you have spotify and you go to cancel it, they’re going to give you the opportunity to continue your membership, maybe for a lower price or some other term, you know. And a lot of times when you go to cancel some sort of description, you’re given the opportunity to continue to subscribe, either maybe at a lower level or or different terms. Maybe instead of paying all for the whole year one time, maybe you can spread out payment or Maybe they’ll encourage you with some other special bonus that you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. Um, and there but many non-profits there don’t even attempt. And what you’LL find is that just by having a staged sequence that you’LL improve your results that a percent a significant percentage of your members will not cancel after all. And you’LL be able to save them. And by tweaking that over time, testing what works, Maybe split testing a couple of options. You’LL find that if you’ve got donors at the one hundred dollars a month level and they go to council offering them the opportunity to get status and continue to be engaged at the fifty dollar level now, it will generate for you six hundred dollars this next twelve months that you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise had you not made that, David. That’s excellent. Excellent. Robert, I love I love the lessons from the from the corporate side. That’s that’s awesome. The members safe sequence. All right, we’ve got to take our We gotta take our second break. It says that you drink a lot of water. You okay? Your eyes, Your throat. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sounds like you were taking a lot of drinks. Are you calling from an airport? I forgot you drink a lot. Okay. I do to, uh were you calling from an airport? Actually, no, I I happen to be. I made it home. I didn’t know I was going to be on the road, but I’m home today. Okay? Okay. Cool. And where is home in Florida? Tallahassee, Florida. Tallahassee, Capital State Capital. Okay. All right. I’ll get Luli. We gotta take this break. Weinger CPAs there? CPS, for goodness sake. Certified public accountants. Do you need one? You need a new one. Talk to eat. Which tomb? He runs their non-profit practice. He’s been a guest on the show. He’s a good guy. He’s not a hard sell. Ir um he’s hasn’t got a pushy bone in his smallish body. He’s not a huge guy, but he’s not a pushy guy. That’s the point. Um, he’s warm and he’ll just tell you. You know, you tell him what you need, and he will tell you whether, uh, Wagner is gonna be able to help you. All right. Wagner. CPS weinger cpas dot com Now, time for Tony’s Take two. I’ve got to send my thanks to Act blue and and ten, which used to be the non-profit Technology Network. But they’re nothing non-profit technology Network anymore that just end ten and t e n. That’s it in ten period. The conference last week. Twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Just wonderful. The speakers I interviewed thirty four different panels of speakers from one to four. So or what? No, actually want One of them was five. So people have to share mikes So you’ll be hearing these interviews over the many coming months. The speakers are smart, you know, the topics so diverse from website redesigned to diversity to managing your tech tech teams even And then oh are outsourced If if If you don’t have in internal Tech team just lots of lots of different subjects As you can imagine over thirty four different conversations and act blue, of course, they were our premier sponsor At the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We shared a booth together. Guests would sit for an interview and then have a chat with AC blew. It was seamless. We were all in this oversized booth together. It was wonderful. We recorded drawing of ah, giveaway that act looted for on site on site training. It was wonderful partnerships. I’m grateful very much Teo ActBlue for sponsoring non-profit radio at the non-profit Technology Conference and on grateful to intend for putting on a terrific conference two and a half days last week. You can see my gratitude video at tony martignetti dot com and you watch that you’LL see me trying to find the end ten office. Good luck tryingto find that, um and, uh, that’s what we got. So let’s go back to Robert’s crowbar and retain your subscribers. Um, all right, so we were We’ve been We’ve been hitting around the on ramp and I love that member safe sequence. I know because because that’s what I’ve heard. In fact, one of the interviews I did it the non-profit Technology Conference was about increasing your your sustainers base and reducing that churn rate. Um, the credit card expiration or the credit card compromise. That’s ah, that’s a tough spot for for non-profits toe overcome. The when the where the cut credit card fail. Yeah, with card fails because it’s been hacked or or it expires. You know, that’s a It’s a moment where people questioned I don’t do it. Should I keep this up or not? But your your argument is they can be kept up. And a lot of that comes from the from the on ramp. But not exclusively, but not exclusively. Well, it’s kind of crazy. I have not found any profession other than non-profits where you have to be an expert in so many different discipline. I was just thinking about it when you were talking about the technology conference and as a non-profit, You’ve got to be on top of technology. You’ve got to be on top of accounting and internal controls and your bordered and keeping them happy and all of this marketing stuff. And on top of that, you’ve got it actually do the mission of the non-profit. And I don’t know another profession that could be possibly more challenging than running a non-profits and along with that, with the credit card. This is one of the areas when you do go to monthly billing. One of the things that come along with that is that credit cards expire. There are people, they are victims of fraud. And so they have to change their card number and the middle of the you know when when they haven’t land, too. And you’LL have a good five to seven percent of your transactions that will fail each month, and they need to be tracked down. Sometimes they reach our area. You recharged, attempt well, enable it to go through. It’s not always because the credit card doesn’t have money on it, you know, available credit. It could just be the issue in card. You know, the issuing card bank, for whatever reason, just declined it. Once you can retry it and it will go through. So it’s it does need some administrative oversight in order to make sure that the car goes through now Theninety. You know, even if you had seven percent of these things failing, getting ninety three percent of the revenue every month would be worth it. But tracking down the seven percent is a very lucrative because every one of those is in just one month no contribution but a sequence of contributions on the future. Yes, having a automated follow-up sequence of emails having a, uh, call out to those members I even send. Recommend sending something in the mail to those members but more than anything is having a relationship, because if your power got shut off today, then you’re going to your orders. You got an email today that you know your cable TV is going to be shut off because we don’t have your your credit card or your Internet is going to be shut off because we don’t have your credit card. Correct. You know that that call’s gonna get returned and that credit card is going to be updated. And so you want to have a relationship with your member where you feel justice essential as their Internet provider and got all about the relationship. Let’s talk about that relationship. One of your accelerator’s I mentioned it earlier is it’s, you know there’s ten accelerators. We’re not gonna have time to talk about all of them, so you just got to get the book. You just got to get the book called Attention Point because we’re just going toe. We’re going Dutch on a few of them so that in terms of that relationship, talk about your accelerator, it’s always about them. I one of the great opportunities that I like my job so easy doing the turnaround Because almost every time the non-profit, or even the for-profit membership program focuses on their benefits and what they’re delivering to the member. And there’s these long, you know. Either they believe it’s short copy is important, and there’s all these bullet points about what they deliver. Or there’s a paragraph about what they deliver, and it’s always about them. And I could tell you, Tony, I promise you you are. None of your listeners woke up this morning going, Oh my goodness, I hope I get an e mail today of and none of your donors woke up today going Man, I hope I get an email. I want to find somebody I could donate to that will send me an email of an email newsletter every month. That sounds like they don’t want your email newsletter. What a woman is the feeling that they’LL get because they’re engaged and they’re participating and they’re part of this movie part of your movement, and you want to make those benefits instead of talking about what they are. Talk about how those benefits will impact your members of life. Flip the benefit. Flip what you’re describing. Instead of talking about what you deliver, talk about how your members life will improve or change because they’re getting that benefit well, So how does the life changes? Suppose you’re supporting your local. Why Y m c a Y W c A what? Er, why? M. H a. I don’t want Teo bi partisan. Whatever. You know, your local wine. Let’s keep it near you. Supporting your local Why? How does how does doing that change your life? So are they are they? They’re simply donating for the kids that are participating in the organization’s Let’s just say it’s general operating support I’m giving. I’m giving fifty bucks a month. So to my to my local, why for general support and the the mission of the why they have Yeah, they have after school programs for children. They have a big fitness center. They have classes in yoga. They have they have chair yoga for seniors. Um, that’s ah, that seems like an overview of a wide. That’s all I can think of so you could be part of the movement in child obesity by supporting the gymnasium that gives children a place to exercise after school that you can help get kids more active and away from their tablets by giving them a program where they can interact and learned how to learn. You know, learn howto have sportsmanship, you can help senior you’LL be you’ll be in power and seniors by supporting this was, rather than talking about the seniors program or talking about the after school program and instead you flip it into what? That donor as a result of that program. Okay, you will help our chilled our communities. Children, you will help. Our seniors will be in your community. Yeah, our your community. Okay. Or our our Yeah, not mine. Yeah. Now, right, Right, right. Exactly. Your I’ve heard your is ours. And yours. Yours especially. Very good for copy. Help your community help your help. The seniors in your community be more fit and flexible because the because they come to chair yoga and help the children the way you were describing. All right, we gotta take another guy to take another break. Robert. Excuse me. Hold on. Tell us you want fifty percent of the fee. When cos you refer process their credit card transactions with Tell us all these small fees add up these like two, three, four percent fees. It adds up and you get half of them. And that is the long tail of passive revenue for your organization. It just comes once you make these company referrals. Teo to tell us the explainer video is that tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us on the Tell Us landing page, Watch it, have the company’s watch it and then ask if they would consider switching to make money for your organization. Tony dahna may slash Tony Tell us we got to do a live listener, love and, uh, and there are a lot of them from AA Seattle, Washington and Oakland, California to Tampa, Florida and New Bern, North Carolina. And it’s Tampa. It’s not Tallahassee, so we know that’s That’s not Robert. Awesome Live. Listen, love, live love to you. And, uh, no point in leaving out Adelanto California. Why would I do that? I wouldn’t I wouldn’t While do I leave out Clifton, New Jersey Why would I not send the love the Clifton, New Jersey? I wouldn’t not send it, which means I would so live love After Clifton, New Jersey and also out Tio Adam latto, California forya. Let’s go abroad to Istanbul, Turkey. Turkey. My God, my voice is cracking like a fourteen year old. Every everything. Every other syllable now live love out to Istanbul and also young San Korea. Anya haserot comes a ham. Nida Ah, who else’s abroad are? Finland is abroad. I’m sorry. We can’t see your city in Finland. We know that it’s not a monolithic country, but we just cannot see it. Sorry. Oh also Seoul. Seoul, South Korea is with us on your haserot and comes a ham. Nida Teo to Seoul. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. That’s that. I think that’s a new one. Live love out to Riyadh, Moscow, Russia. Live love their Tokyo, Japan. That’s a common one. So glad, so glad you’re so loyal in Tokyo. I could eat. You are thank you for the live love for the live listening and the love goes out and the podcast pleasantries, Of course, to the vast majority of our audience. That’s where the over thirteen thousand listeners are listening and on their devices on their time. That’s the beauty of podcasts. Take it. Draw it in. Breathe it in. Listen in pleasantries to our podcast listeners so grateful that you are with us. Let’s go back. Teo. Robert, Scrub your name. Uh, your name. I want to make it clear your name rhymes with Strobe s k r o B. I want to make sure I spell it so people don’t think it’s s k r o b e or something s k r o b. You’ve got to get the book. You gotta know how to spell his name. It helps. You probably could get it without that. But you want to have a spell. His name s K R O B. Robert. First name, no middle initial. You’re you’re an M I? Well, I do have a middle initial that I didn’t use it on the book and my name. Why Mei Mei great grandfather came over from Poland and nameless crow be alone. Oh, that’s a good one. That one. Funny, they shortened scrubby pulawski. Oh, that’s a great one. It’s not. It’s not a great thing that it’s not a great stage name and will take up the whole cover of your of your book, but that’s that’s a great name? Scrabulous Key. I love that one. That’s good. That’s awesome. Scrub pulawski. Um, So, uh, where were we? Let’s see. Uh oh, yeah, we were talking about Yes, it’s always about them. And what the feelings are you you’re You’re very concerned about the feelings that we give to our donors so that when these obstacles do come out, do arise there easily surmounted, like the expiration of the credit card or something like that. You say that you’LL never out Mark you’LL never out membership market your churn rate That growth comes from new member retention, not new member acquisition. Amplify that for us. You know, I think that it goes back to all the challenges that you have running a non-profit. You kind of make sure that the things you do have as high an impact as possible. And if you’re going to spend a couple of hours doing something that that couple of ours is best in, invested as it possibly can be. And what I actually do have plenty of clients that we focus on member acquisition. And that’s their issue and challenge. And the acquisition problem is always fixed by improving the deliverer ble that thie organisation is sending and might seem like. Oh, well, that’s really a retention thing, but you know, they don’t really care about what we deliver until after they’ve already joined, and we can take our chances then. But by improving the deliverer ble and focusing on the feeling that we get in e-giving that premium experience so that you know, they really feel better about you’re participating too. Makesem have that kind of Superman experience that that also helps us improve our our conversion rate on our on our appeal and also increased the value of those conversion rates. Where because we understand that this is a status sale and we are emphasizing the status rape within each donor level, we find that we’re able to improve that initial transaction size as well as birds. When you kind of the side benefit is when you do focus on retention, you’re also improving your act with another one of your accelerators is seems related to what you’re saying. Every member contact is a sales communication. And you know the well I hope you agree with that. You wrote it. You know, you don’t quit your quibbling. Your quibbling with geever accelerated isn’t done there. Then you’LL got nine left. You know you like pony. Preach it. Okay. You were just I am. So of course, just affirming my my enthusiasm for it. You’re not quibbling with your own accelerate because then you’re down to nine and we gotta rip out, like, a dozen pages in a book. Okay, so every member contact is a sales communication that that one struck me too. When I was thinking of what I said earlier about thie, the thank you message that looks like, you know, citing the Internal Revenue code and justifying your charitable deduction. We got a couple of minutes before we take another break. Talk about that. That that one, that every member of every member contact is a sales communication. You know, it happens not only there and the administrative e mails and communication, but even in your monthly newsletters and the things that you are delivering to your members of ongoing basis. That was really were also one of the key places that charity water had questions because they had for many years grew because of their donor program that was focused on creating one time transactions. And now, all of a sudden they had the membership that they need to communicate with their members on an ongoing basis. We’re trying to figure out what we send our members every month that they will love and appreciate, and by focusing on understanding that every monthly quote newsletter is really a sales communication that helped us back into what really needed to be there. Well, I helped them dissect what there marketing messages were for their donors. You know, we created this list and it turned out there were a thing and their highest performing member acquisition, marketing pieces. And then we used that less of a thing that needed to be in every single ongoing communication that they were sending and when, you know, at first they were like, No, we already do that. But then when we actually broken back out, it compared. They had no more than two or three of those message point and any one of their emails or videos or anything like that that they had that they were sending out. So bye bye. Recognizing that that monthly email or those other ongoing communications really our sales messages, it helps you drafted so that each one of those is more effective and increasing the excitement in the organization. So you got to know what it is that moves people to support you and then keep hitting those home time after time in a a sales communication. All right, Robert, we gotta take our last break text to give Diversify your revenue by adding mobile giving right. You want the multi multi-channel diverse this mobile giving contrary to popular belief not only for disasters, not only for small dollar donations, you can build relationships through text. What is it? What is Robert saying? It’s about the relationship. You can do it through texting. You doing it with family and friends all the time, right? Do it with your donors. Ah, text to give Has a five part email. Many course. You’re gonna get five short emails. One a day, Five days. And it will dispel myths and explain how to get started. The way to get into that email. Many course text End PR. That’s November, Papa. Romeo to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Remember, I used to be in the Air Force. I got picked up that awful Bravo, Charlie Delta Echo Foxtrot Golf Hotel India Juliet Kilo, Lima Mike November Oscar Papa Quebec Romeo Sierra Tango uniform Victor Whiskey X ray Yankee Zulu. That’s where this right. Pick that up. Okay, we’ve got several more minutes for retained Your subscribers. Um So let’s see. What else? What else could we talk about? You got some. Let’s talk to explicitly about Thea Member, the member on ramp. Um, the dream, the belief. The goal. Let’s let’s apply that stuff to non-profits, please. Yeah, let’s get a drink of water. There you take and you take a drink of water every time. Every time. Right before you talk, you drink. I hope that’s not vodka, is it? Or if it is, If it is, don’t tell your problem. I just don’t want to know. Now, why would you hold yourself together pretty well after fifty minutes? If that’s if that’s a straight up vodka. I mean, I wouldn’t know. So you’re doing a good job? Yes. They talk about the on ramp to the belief, the goal the, um and the dream. Yeah. So does. Most of the time we’re talking about ourselves and but with the with the with the materials that you’re delivering to your members, you really want to make them about the outcome that you are delivering. And the whatever the message wass the big promise that you had in your appeal that you’re showing them that mission and showing them you know what life was going to be like And the problems that would be solved because of your organization when you were I merely after they become your member, you want to affirm that and come right back with more of the same kind of take it up to the next level. And because really, now you’ve identified this person as somebody who is particularly interested in this type of information. Yeah, and so often we think, Well, they just heard that they won’t want to hear it again. Well, let’s give them different case studies, different stories that have a similar message. Next, why should they be? Part of this organization is very easy to think. Yeah, that’s important. I believe in it and somebody should be doing. But, you know, they don’t necessarily feel that personal passion behind it themselves. And it’s important to make it clear why they must be part of your movement. And why now is not only the right time for your movement, but why Now is the right time for them to participate in this part of their life. And certainly if you have some sort of, yeah, you know, progress where you’re helping them, you actually do something, you know, maybe, you know, part of the membership is they get some sort of benefit that they’re going to be taking action with, then giving them a goal. And you know and for for me. You know, I lost a good fifty pounds of about twelve years ago by joining Weight Watchers. I walked in, I was two hundred thirty seven pounds, and they said, Hey, you know, we think that we recommend that you set a goal of losing ten percent of your body weight over the first eight weeks. For you. That would be twenty three town. Uh, you know, buy, Forget the date. You know, by this date, how does that feel? Okay, that feels good. And so it gave me It wasn’t everything I needed to lose, but it was achievable Goal that felt good. That allowed me to make the changes I needed in order to lose weight. And anytime you’re trying to get somebody to take action, they could be quickly become overwhelmed by everything that they need to do. And if you are simply giving them an incremental goal, it’s going to help them get started and generate good big results. Alright, then all Robin wants to rob it and lock all the back doors and show them that this is the only true path. Okay, we’ve got to leave it there. Regrettably, that’s Ah, that’s hard time. You just got to get the book because there’s so much more that we didn’t get a chance to talk about about the onramp and the relationship building. You gotta look. You’ve got to take a critical look at each step of your monthly sustainers program. The book is retention point. He is Robert Scrub. He’s at Robert’s Crowbar and Robert’s group dot com. Thank you so much, Robert. I enjoy Thank you so much in honor to be on your program. Thank you for insiders. Robert and I are going to talk about the gift with subscription for New Member acquisition. So to be a non-profit radio insider to get exclusive access to these five minute insider videos that I do with guests, go to tony martignetti dot com and click. What else would you cook? Insider alerts. Next week we’re going to kick off our nineteen and T C coverage. I don’t know which one. It’s going to be one of the thirty four. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com responded by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash Pursuant. Capital P Why Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers When you’re cps dot com by Telus Credit Card and payment Processing Your Passive Revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made Easy text. 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