Tag Archives: donors

Nonprofit Radio for July 26, 2021: 12 New Donor Qs & Train Like A Champ

My Guest:

Andy Robinson: 12 New Donor Qs & Train Like A Champ

It’s been so long since Andy Robinson was a guest, we need to cover two topics together. First, a dozen potential questions to ask your donor who just said yes to a gift. Then, his advice to up your game as a trainer and facilitator.

 

 

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[00:00:03.84] spk_2:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio

[00:01:57.94] spk_1:
Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast and uh oh I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with idiopathic thrombosis. radio Penick purpura if I didn’t know why you bled me with the idea that you missed this week’s show 12 new donor questions and train like a champ. It’s been so long since Andy Robinson was a guest. We need to cover two topics together. First a dozen potential questions to ask your donor who just said yes to a gift. Then his advice to up your game as a trainer and facilitator, tony state too podcast pleasantries were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. And by sending Blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. It’s my pleasure to welcome back Andy Robinson to nonprofit radio he provides training and consulting for nonprofits, businesses and government agencies. Over the past 25 years. He’s worked with clients in 47 states and Canada. He’s the author of six books including train your board and everyone else to raise money at train your board dot com. His latest book is what every board member needs to know do and avoid Andy is at Andy Robinson online dot com. Welcome back Andy,

[00:01:59.32] spk_0:
it’s great to be with you. Thank you for having me today,

[00:02:08.54] spk_1:
absolute pleasure. I just want to make sure that listeners understand you were on the show just a couple months ago, May Talking about boards and financial uh financial analysis and data. But that was a replay from 2012,

[00:02:16.81] spk_0:
right with my colleague Nancy Wasserman and she and I did a different book together about that topic.

[00:02:27.94] spk_1:
exactly. Uh and so it’s been since 2012 that you were on the show, so it’s time to catch up and do uh do these two topics together.

[00:02:32.54] spk_0:
I missed you. tony

[00:02:33.84] spk_1:
Oh, you’re terrific. Thank you. Up in Vermont, See see what a humane people we have up to Vermont. Yeah,

[00:02:41.76] spk_0:
I hope so. Um anyway, I’m pleased to be back. It’s an honor to talk with you. It’s an honor to be with your listeners and thank you for inviting me.

[00:03:00.24] spk_1:
My pleasure. Um Does it annoy vermonters that everybody who doesn’t live in new Hampshire, Vermont or maine confuses new Hampshire and Vermont?

[00:03:16.34] spk_0:
Um A few people get annoyed by that. Um The cultures of the two states are somewhat different and the politics of the two states are somewhat different, but they have a lot in common, and certainly there are many people who commute back and forth and have friends on both sides of the Connecticut river. And so I wouldn’t sweat it.

[00:03:21.64] spk_1:
You’re not. Is that is that the Connecticut river that divides

[00:03:23.86] spk_0:
it? Yes, it is.

[00:03:25.64] spk_1:
Yes. That’s

[00:03:25.90] spk_0:
the kind of the river you

[00:03:26.99] spk_1:
pick up geography on probably. So you’re not among the vermonters. That is upset by the

[00:03:50.54] spk_0:
I am not and I’ve been here about 20 years. So it is my adopted home. Um much as you, you know, are living in an adopted home. So am I? So I can’t even claim the title vermonter. Um I would like to, but the locals are a little, you know, Vermont or is someone who’s been here for multiple generations. I’m gonna

[00:03:51.34] spk_1:
be generation. Yeah,

[00:03:52.59] spk_0:
it’s a generational thing, but it’s all it’s all good. And I I love living here and I’m grateful every day to be here.

[00:04:23.74] spk_1:
Wonderful. Alright, so thank you for for letting those of us who make that mistake off the hook. No worries. It’s the same as the Kentucky Tennessee dilemma. All right. 12 questions. So we’re starting off with 12 questions that you might potentially ask a new donor. Someone who has just said just said yes to a gift and your first one is how would you like to make your payments?

[00:06:16.94] spk_0:
Yeah. Right. Um and you know, I mean it’s it can be awkward because it’s we’re having this deep conversation about why do you care about this work and how do you want to participate and what would feel significant to you? And and then we have to at some point get to the logistical question of are you writing me a check and by sending you an invoice? Are we doing the credit card, you making uh installment payments to fulfill this gift? And so yeah, I think that has to be one of the questions is how would you like to make payment? And a classic solution to this is to bring a pledge form with you. So when the donor says yes you pull out the form and it includes things like how do I spell your name and how do you prefer to be contacted with me? Um Do you like email? Do you like a personal phone call? Should I come and meet with you once or twice a year? Like how do you want to engage with us? And then also there’s the payment question like are you writing the check and by sending you an invoice we’re doing installments, all those sorts of things and you know I will do a little shout out to my colleague Harvey Mckinnon who I suspect has been on your show at some point and and Harvey is an international consultant. He and I did an article about this together that I think first appeared in the Grassroots fundraising journal Once upon a Time. So he’s he’s the co author of this content. Um, but I bring it up because he’s like the international guru of monthly giving, and he will never let the moment pass without saying, you know, would you consider making this a monthly payment model? So for folks who don’t know, this is the sustainer program model where people make automatic monthly payments on their credit card or directly from their bank. So that could be one of the questions are you a monthly donor? If not, would you like to be, is that a way to fulfill this commitment? So, yeah, how how do you want to pay? Is one of those questions? Yeah, sure.

[00:06:38.24] spk_1:
Well, right, because we don’t want to I don’t wanna be so excited by the by the yes that we we shake hands, we hug and then we rush out the door. You know thinking if I stay longer they might change their minds. And then we don’t get to the details of you know right, what what can we expect? I mean you gotta this is this is a business here and let’s acknowledge from you just got a commitment for someone to invest in your business. Yes. Was that investment going to come through?

[00:07:05.64] spk_0:
So we have to be to use the wrong word here. We have to be shameless about that. And at least you know we have to be forthright and say okay this is awesome. You have just made my day thank you for saying yes. I am so appreciative how do we do this? How do we transfer the money? I mean maybe it’s stock option, right? You know, I mean there’s a lot of ways that people can make payments, So yes, thank you for naming that Tony that is one of the 12 questions for sure.

[00:07:10.42] spk_1:
Of course. Well we’re gonna we’re gonna take them off.

[00:07:13.18] spk_0:
You have, do you have them in front of you?

[00:07:14.94] spk_1:
I have a list, yeah,

[00:07:16.11] spk_0:
yeah, great freedom to me.

[00:07:18.14] spk_1:
Look at this, the guy who wrote the article with Harvey, by the way, Harvey Makin has not been on the show, if you’re recommending,

[00:07:22.64] spk_0:
I will hook you up with Harvey because he’s very good storyteller and his thoughtful and entertaining and very smart.

[00:07:29.04] spk_1:
So the guy who co authored the article, you don’t have it in front of you,

[00:07:31.94] spk_0:
um you know, I I should have it in front of me,

[00:07:34.50] spk_1:
but I think you know, make you tick off as many as you can see

[00:07:37.46] spk_0:
why don’t I do that? Why don’t I try and why am I try and remember them and then you can feed me the ones I’ve forgotten

[00:07:43.52] spk_1:
what I already gave you one. So if you don’t get credit for that one.

[00:07:46.92] spk_0:
Yeah. Well you know what happened and this is full disclosure and you’re probably your audience doesn’t need to know this. But I pulled up the wrong slide deck this morning as my cue. Oh I thought we were talking about succession planning. Oh questions. Oh well let’s see if I can.

[00:08:00.16] spk_1:
I thought the host of this show was lackluster.

[00:08:03.43] spk_0:
Yeah. Well

[00:08:07.44] spk_1:
I’m rare that we have a guest who’s been less prepared than

[00:08:08.71] spk_0:
I will

[00:08:10.54] spk_1:
we will bring this together, put you on the spot giving you once you

[00:08:25.64] spk_0:
have given me one so you won’t get them in any particular order. But I’ll do this remembering and that’s fine. I’ll give you one of my favorite questions is will you give us a testimonial about why you give

[00:08:32.24] spk_1:
that counts? I’m checking that one off. Thank you about that one. Well we’re not we’re going to see how many you can remember through the, through the discussion. I think

[00:09:13.34] spk_0:
that’s fair. Why, Why I like that one is two things first of all and you know, tony You know this your longtime fundraiser, the most powerful fundraising is a peer to peer, right? It’s one donor talking to another donor and this is a way that you can get one donor to literally talk to another. This is why I made a commitment and you know, can I put it on the website? Can I put it in our printed materials? Is something I could share on social media? How can I use that? Um, Okay, a related question is, tell me more about why you make it you chose. Yes. Like, tell me a little more about, you know, you just made a big decision. I’m I’m moved. I’m pleased to say more about this commitment. Why is this meaningful to you?

[00:09:57.44] spk_1:
What is it about our work? That’s right. And, you know, that some of these may be subsumed in your ongoing conversation about the gift. I mean, you know, so, as you’re talking, that’s fair, as you’re talking about books about making a gift, you know, it’s not it’s very rarely in my experience, a one shot, you know, you ask, and then they say yes or no. I’ll think about it there use conversations. So, you might very well, first of all, you might already have known what they love from their previous giving. But through your conversations about this particular gift, you might find that out if you didn’t already know. So you might not have to ask afterwards right already.

[00:10:12.54] spk_0:
I think a good discovery conversation with donors leading up to the ask is going to reveal at least some of these questions and answers. I think that’s fair and not everybody is that thorough or thoughtful in their cultivation and their discovery with donors. And so if you don’t have a clear answer to that question, you want to know that

[00:10:56.74] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications, The chronicle of philanthropy, The new york Times, The Wall Street Journal, UsA Today stanford Social Innovation Review, the Washington post, the Hill Cranes, nonprofit quarterly Forbes Market Watch. That’s where two and two clients have gotten exposure. You want exposure in outlets like those. Turn to has the relationships to make it happen for you turn hyphen two dot c o. Your story is their mission. Now let’s go back to 12 new donor questions and train like a champ.

[00:11:54.24] spk_0:
This also relates to one I already mentioned. Which is what are your communications preferences? Like how should I stay in touch with you? Should I send you email? Should I send you a newsletter? Do you like the occasional phone calls? Should I take you to lunch? Um, how often? And you know, a related one. This is a little awkward and I would save this for the end, but I’m bringing it up now is what’s your given calendar? Like how often may I ask you And the, the assumption we have with major donors And I’m putting air quotes here for folks who are listening. The assumption we have is that they are once a year donors, you know, typically at the end of the year and we do the cultivation and we try to close the gift at the end of the year. And I just want to say that everybody is different. And you know, here’s an old quote which is if you know one donor, you know one donor and there’s this strong tendency to sort of extrapolate to everybody. All donors behave like this. And it’s not true.

[00:12:02.20] spk_1:
So

[00:13:10.64] spk_0:
the way I might frame this is I might say to somebody, what’s your given calendar? Are you typically a once a year kind of person or if I have a special need or an emergency? Can I come to you additionally, how does that work for you? How do you think about your giving in that way? Um, another question, especially if you’re dealing with older donors, um, for those who can’t see us tony and I both have a lot of gray this call today. Yeah, that’s all right. No, no shame in that. Anyway. If you’re if you’re dealing with older donors, one of the questions I would ask is, um, does your family know about this? And the next time that I come back to talk with you, can we have some of your kids or heirs or family members in the room so we can all discuss together why this work is meaningful to you? Because I don’t want just one donor. I want generations of donors, Right? And if dad is in for mom is in front of the kids saying this is important to me. Here’s why. And we’re trying to add to our donor list and also continue this donation after that donor has passed on, then it’s good for the family members to know why this is a priority for the person who’s making the gift

[00:13:15.70] spk_1:
interesting. That’s an interesting one. You’re sort of leading into a plan giving discussion.

[00:13:19.98] spk_0:
We are

[00:13:27.74] spk_1:
and the interesting, yeah. Trying to get the parents to engage their next generation. Their

[00:13:50.04] spk_0:
kids share their philanthropic priorities with their Children, you know, and if you have, if somebody has a family foundation and the kids are on the board, I mean this is already happening, but most donors don’t. Right. Um, so I I yeah, that, I mean that’s one that sort of surprises people because a lot of people don’t think of that one, right? It’s like, who else? Um, another

[00:13:51.15] spk_1:
Live by the way, you’re at five out of 11 so

[00:13:53.10] spk_0:
far. I’m rocking and rolling here. Um,

[00:13:55.15] spk_1:
you’re you’re in a street f so far, but there’s still time, there’s still time.

[00:13:58.83] spk_0:
Doctor tony cut me some slack here early in the

[00:14:02.29] spk_1:
co author of this thing. I’m okay if I get harvey mckinnon on the show and you can’t name more than five or six of these,

[00:14:09.94] spk_0:
I’m just getting warmed all

[00:14:10.36] spk_1:
you out when I when I when I have them on.

[00:15:32.74] spk_0:
Okay, so here we go. Another one is will you come to our board and talk to our board about why you give and you know, we’re gonna talk about board training in a few minutes. That’s, you know, our second topic this morning. But um, I do a lot of work helping board members embrace fundraising. It is like the number one piece of my work for years and years and years and part of the barriers. People have this idea that donors are a different species or they come from a different planet and like, I don’t know any donors. I’m the one who gives money all this, all this stuff. Right. We’ve all heard at any of us who are consultants who work with boards have heard these tropes all the time. And I think it’s sort of fun to pull together a donor panel of three or four of your most loyal donors and they don’t have to be the wealthiest donors. I mean, maybe it’s, you know, the classic little old lady who’s been giving $50 a year for 20 years and you invite three or four of them to a board meeting. You say the 1st 20 minutes of board meeting, we’re just going to do Q and A. And we’re going to hear from some people who love us and give us money and have them talk about why they support our work. And this is transformational for board members because they realize they love us, right? We do good work, people care. They want to be part of this, right? So will you come and share with our board why you give and why this is meaningful to you? Um,

[00:15:57.24] spk_1:
so I can see how that enormously uh, eye opening for, for board members who, who get mired in the financials. You know, as we talked about when you wrote your book, the boards understanding the basics of financial, they get mired in the financials and the and the employment practices and the non disclosure and uh, and conflict of interest policy. And they forget that were, you know, this, this wide M. C. A. Does great work in the community. You know, we’re more than just a pool and a fitness center, you know, and, and let’s hear and we hear

[00:16:18.04] spk_0:
from more than just a spreadsheet and aboard media. Right? So I mean, here’s a shout out to someone you may have had on on In the last 550 radio sessions. This case Sprinkle Grace, um, in case another well known great consultant,

[00:16:21.11] spk_1:
k

[00:16:55.34] spk_0:
sprinkled Grace, who’s in san Francisco Grace. Um, you know, and Kay has said, and I don’t know if she was the first, but she said every board meeting needs to include what she calls a mission moment, which is when board members are connecting with their hearts and why they’re in the game and why they care about the work as opposed to the spreadsheets and the policies and the agendas. And you know, this is a classic mission moment is if you have donors sitting with you saying this is why I care about your work. And this is why it connects with me emotionally. Then the board members are connecting emotionally with the work. Um, so I would put that on my list of 12.

[00:16:59.03] spk_1:
It is already there another not expanding the list. You’re not very good. You don’t, you don’t hurt your own cause you don’t want to increase the denominator. You want, you

[00:17:09.52] spk_0:
can take the new yorker out of new york, but you can’t take new york out of the new

[00:17:16.94] spk_1:
yorker. You can’t take the new york out of tony No, I’m keeping track. It’s good. I don’t want you to think that I’m just

[00:17:19.59] spk_0:
trying to distract

[00:17:20.64] spk_1:
you from the purpose of here’s the next one by amplifying somebody here.

[00:18:12.54] spk_0:
Here’s the classic one that we don’t do enough because we don’t have the courage, which is, will you introduce us to other potential donors, Right. Is there anybody else that you know that might care about this work? And you know, again, I don’t think that’s the first question out of your mouth, but if you have someone who’s enthusiastic and they’re like, I love this group is like, who do you know? Um, how can you help us? And you know, will you make an introduction? Would you consider hosting a house party? Right. Um, if we have an event which you come and speak at the event, like finding ways to involve them. Um, another question, and this is probably towards the end of the list is you’re so committed, you’re so passionate. Would you help us raise money? Are you a potential volunteer in our fundraising pool? Um, and let’s talk about the volunteer tasks that are available. And could you be one of those people?

[00:18:18.04] spk_1:
Yeah, I like, I like that one a lot.

[00:18:19.97] spk_0:
Yeah. And again, it’s not gonna be everybody. Some folks are like, no, I mean, I’ll give you money. I don’t want to, I don’t want to participate in that way. But other people like, sure. What do you need?

[00:18:28.12] spk_1:
Could you help us?

[00:18:29.17] spk_0:
Could you help us?

[00:18:30.91] spk_1:
What you’ve just done exactly. Um, um, out of 11 by the way.

[00:18:35.64] spk_0:
Thank you. I think we’re there 11 or where they’re 12.

[00:18:38.54] spk_1:
Well, there were 12, but you’re not getting credit for the first one because I gave it to you

[00:18:50.14] spk_0:
sure enough. Um, the domino a new question that’s not on the list, but harvey has thought about is how has covid changed your thinking about giving?

[00:18:54.74] spk_1:
Okay.

[00:19:26.14] spk_0:
And I don’t know if that’s an after before question. Um, but you know where he was going with it. Is is it going to be harder to get donor meetings and how are people feeling about having face to face conversations? And you know, sometimes we’re doing these on zoom now, which I’m fine with. Sometimes we’re meeting with donors. Um Sometimes we’re doing it on the phone. That’s never that’s not new. Um But even just figuring out the meeting protocols and how people are feeling about that I think is an interesting bonus question. Um Alright, feed me one because I think that’s what I got so far.

[00:19:39.64] spk_1:
All right. So now you expanded the denominator by adding the COVID question. So that increased your denominator to 12. Yeah, that’s cool. You got 234 Got nine out of 12 which is about 75% right, 75 is about a C. I’ll give you a C. Plus because you have a good smile and you live in new Hampshire.

[00:19:51.13] spk_0:
I don’t I live in Vermont but whatever.

[00:19:54.94] spk_1:
That’s right. Whatever. Whatever. Um Okay. Straight C plus.

[00:19:59.06] spk_0:
Uh geography test. Let’s see if I’m, if I’m not going to pass the test of, would you like to honor questions? Give me another one, tony like to

[00:20:06.97] spk_1:
honor or someone who is in memory or someone

[00:22:03.94] spk_0:
thank you. So again, this is, this is sort of fundraising. 101 is that sometimes people like the opportunity to use their gift to honor someone they love, who may be alive, who may have passed away, um, or maybe even honor somebody who’s in the organization. I’ve had donors say, you know, I wanted to do this, but I want to do it in honor of the staff because I see how the hard the staff works and you know, they are the heart and soul of the organization. So yeah, I mean, I could honor my grandma, may she rest in peace, but I think I want to honor the employees because they’re kicking. But um, so I have, um, I chaired a capital campaign several years ago and we had the whole conversation about naming opportunities and how to price naming opportunities and all that. But one of the things we decided as if people wanted to do naming opportunities and have little plaques on the walls, they could name it after themselves, like named after a relative or a friend, but they could also name it after a value or a concept they really loved. So we had people who used the naming opportunities to write things like justice and dignity for everyone. And instead of their name, we had a little plaque, you know, for the bookcase that they bought that said justice and dignity for everyone or lifelong learning or you know, things like that. And so the naming opportunity was not just a name. Sometimes it was a value set or a concept. Um, and that made it more palatable for the folks who thought people with more money shouldn’t get to put their names on stuff because that’s inequitable. And you know, I have some, I have some feeling for that, right? I, I appreciate that point of view. I’m also a fairly practical fundraiser, but it was sort of nice said people were given the option of actually naming some value that was important to them. And um, so yes, would you like to honor somebody or something with your gift,

[00:22:10.04] spk_1:
some

[00:22:10.92] spk_0:
value or some idea or some concept? Um, and I thought that was a nice, nice pivot on that particular question.

[00:24:13.44] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s take two, the podcast pleasantries. You know, I’m grateful. I hope, you know, you should know you certainly better. No, you better finger wag. You better know that. I’m grateful that you listen to nonprofit radio Week after week notice. I don’t say week after week after week it’s not a laborious chore. It’s a pleasure. I hope you’re learning. I hope there’s some entertainment value as well. I’m grateful. Whatever it is you get out of nonprofit radio I’m glad. I’m grateful that you’re with us. I’m glad it’s helping you in your own career, helping your non profit That’s why I do the show pleasantries to you. Our podcast listeners. Thank you for being with me. That is Tony’s take two Now back to 12 new donor questions and train like a champ and then I have switched to a different device because my internet dropped out. That happens when you live at the beach. Sometimes it’s windy or who knows. Uh, so sound is not gonna be as good now because I’m on my phone instead of with my fancy Yeti make, which only connects to my laptop. So Andy’s sound will be the same. Mind is not as good, but we persevered non profit radio perseveres. We’ve had lights turned off. We’ve had, we’ve been at nonprofit technology conference and had taken down taking down around uh, 5 30 when the union was going by with forklifts and taking down displays. It doesn’t matter. We persevered. So the point we were at was just saying that whether you want to do your gift in honor her memory flows very nicely into how would you as the donor like to be recognised?

[00:25:05.34] spk_0:
Yes. So there are people who like their names public and there are some people who prefer to be anonymous. Um, and so we, this is an ongoing debate in the industry is do we publish donor names or not? And I’m in favour of publishing and I think it’s a good thing, but obviously you have to get people’s permission. So I think the key question is may we recognize you publicly or would you prefer to be anonymous? And you know, this implies you have that that tracking form or that pledge form that I was talking about. And you have that you can go through that with the donor and and check that off and then presumably you have a database and you can then honor that request by either recognizing them or making them anonymous. Now a key question we have forgotten, but now I’m remembering is, um, how do you want us to use this gift?

[00:25:07.97] spk_1:
Uh, he gets another one.

[00:26:49.34] spk_0:
Yes. And you know, the point here is that we want all the unrestricted dollars we can get. The best gift you can get from donors, unrestricted general operating use it however you see fit. And there are certainly donors at times who want to restrict their gifts to specific programs or initiatives that you’re doing. Certainly this is true if you’re doing capital fundraising campaign. Um, the tendency I fear is that the solicitor tends to pitch the restricted gift when it’s not necessary to do so. And you know, there are some folks who say, well, you know, most donors would rather know where their money is going. And and my response is I think a lot for a lot of solicitors for a lot of asters, they feel more comfort in asking for a restricted gift. And that’s about our needs as the, as the Askar. And it’s not necessarily about the donors needs. So we have to get better at framing our work and say when you give us the, whatever the amount is, 1000, 5000, 10,000, 50,000. Whatever it supports the whole range of our programs, it supports everything we do in the community. It supports a healthy workplace for our employees. It supports the community members and family members. We support. It helps us build long term sustainability so we can do this work for years. So the best gift you can give us is the unrestricted gift that supports the whole spread of what? And I feel as as Askar as solicitors, we have to get better at pitching that. I think that’s about us. I don’t think it’s about the donor. So that’s one more question. Um, are there any

[00:26:57.44] spk_1:
other, you know, there are, I’m not going to make you agonize over whether or anymore. No. You’ve named you named all the ones that, that I

[00:26:59.57] spk_0:
didn’t get them all.

[00:27:11.24] spk_1:
And then you added one the covid question. So that gives you a 10, 12 Or reduced that to 5/6. And I would say that’s a solid B A beat. You got to

[00:27:12.14] spk_0:
take a B today. I will take I’ll take a B plus.

[00:27:18.74] spk_1:
Well you’re getting a big, you’re getting a beat. So All right. So,

[00:29:07.24] spk_0:
I mean, I want to I want to wrap this part of the conference tony Let me wrap the part of this conversation with a quick little summary here. Um, and then we’ll move to the second half. Um, the stress that we have as Nascar’s I think is around closing the gift, getting the yes. And I feel like there’s a tendency to think if you get that. Yes, you’re like, my work is done. People try to check out or they relax or they stop engaging at the beginning of the relationship. That’s not the end, That’s not the end point, that’s not the victory. Um The whole point is to then ask, how do I keep this donor? How do I make this donor commit even more deeply? How do I find a way to serve them so that they’ll want to give again? And so I feel like the yes is the beginning, it’s not the end. And to me that’s sort of the summation of this whole thing when we get that. Yes. Where do we then go to strengthen and deepen the relationship? And you know, there’s a I can send this to people, we can find a way. But I mean I would turn these into a checklist and I bring them with you. I think it’s okay Um to have a clipboard in front of you when you’re talking to a donor and take notes and you can ask permission to say may I take notes while we’re talking. So I remember stuff because I don’t forget stuff. And is that okay? And I think most people are cool with that but you don’t have to remember these 12 questions. You can bring a cheat sheet with you and you can or you can treat it as a as a form that you fill out when you’re talking with the donor so that you can remember these things and get them into the database. So don’t feel like you have to remember all this stuff. It’s not your job. I think your job is to facilitate the conversation and carry the notes with you if you need them. Yes.

[00:30:24.54] spk_1:
Very sound. Oh I agree. Nobody has a problem with you taking some notes. Um Yeah no I mean you want to preserve this information and and as you said, can convey it back to your to your database for sure. And I like that. Part of the way you, uh, ask how can we be of service to you is by asking for them, asking not require requiring asking for them to be of service to the organization. Would you provide a testimonial? Would you come meet our board, Would you help us with your fundraisers with our fundraising? No, that’s that’s that serves both parties. The benefit to the to the organization of course is greater engagement. Now, now the person isn’t just a donor or investor. There are, there are fundraiser along with you potentially if they agree to that side by side, but we’ll come to a board meeting. There’ll be a V. I. P. Speaker at a board meeting, potentially if they’re willing to do that part. All engagement. That’s all. This was all in service to both the donor by getting them involved in a cause that they already love and service to the non profit as well.

[00:31:37.04] spk_0:
You know, there’s a lot of data on the psychology of giving and why people give and what motivates donors to given all of that. And one of the top reasons is people want to feel connected to something larger than themselves. They want to feel connected to causes or social change or programs that are meaningful to them. Or maybe it reflects on their own experience, um, you know, in need, they had early in their life that the organization or appear organization helped to take care of for them. And so we’re giving them opportunities to more deeply connect with the community that’s creating this change. Um, so it’s an honor. I mean we feel like, you know, we feel like asking people to give as a burden. I think that’s totally backwards. Giving is an honor. It’s a privilege to give and I frankly think it’s a privilege to ask and, and then I think it’s a privilege to be in relationship with the people who give so that you can then deepen that relationship and strengthen their work. So, um we have to be proud, we have to be proud fundraisers. We have to embrace the fact that this is necessary and beautiful and holy work and not treated as a chore but treated as a chance to really improve our communities and deepen relationships and all of that.

[00:32:40.54] spk_1:
It’s time for a break, send in Blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with tools to build end to end digital campaigns that look professional are affordable and keep you organized. They do digital campaign marketing, that’s what we’re talking about. Most marketing software for big companies designed for them, has an enterprise level price tag, sending blue is priced for nonprofits. You heard the Ceo Stefan say this all last last week more articulately than than your lackluster host does. It’s an easy to use marketing platform that walks you through the steps of building a campaign. You want to try out sending blue and get a free month. Go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for the second half of 12 new donor questions and train like a champ.

[00:32:43.84] spk_0:
Um, I think that’s the 12 questions. What else were we talking about today? Tony

[00:32:50.74] spk_1:
Such a such an unprepared guests I haven’t seen and I can’t, I can’t name have I think we’re

[00:32:54.72] spk_0:
talking about training, we’re talking about, we’re talking about training

[00:33:39.64] spk_1:
boards. It maybe 551 shows that since I’ve seen this, this unprepared we’re talking about we’re talking about upping your game and training and facilitating and let’s not limited to board training and facilitating you. Might be might be training your fellow, your fellow staff. Uh, maybe you’re a, uh, maybe you’re a consultant who does training and like the up the game a bit in training facilitating. So, or maybe it’s maybe it’s board work. So, the one of your, one of your articles that I want to start with is the one about, Uh, not over stuffing your agenda. You feel like people try to pack too much into an hour or 90 minutes or a half a day or a full day. So, uh, do you have any idea what that article is about that you

[00:33:42.44] spk_0:
wrote? I’m a Volunteer Today. Friends. I’m here and I’m being abused by the host just for the record. I’m doing this is but

[00:33:54.24] spk_1:
but even volunteers, we have expectations. Even volunteers don’t just walking

[00:34:05.34] spk_0:
by. I am tony I am crushing this. Let’s acknowledge this. I’m doing great today. Anyway. two per your question. Um, we have to start by thinking a little bit about how people learn,

[00:34:09.84] spk_1:
how people learn and what your goal is. Yeah.

[00:36:26.93] spk_0:
And so, you know, there’s there’s a lot of learning theories and I won’t get too geeky with folks, but there’s a learning theory that I that I think is intuitive and people understand is that we all have different learning styles and there’s an acronym V A R K bark that represents this so obvious visual, Right? Some people learn stuff visually. They look at images. They look at video. I mean, that’s their that’s their learning style. Some people are auditory a they like to talk, they like to listen, right? That’s the way. And certainly people who tune into a podcast or radio show like this are probably leaning toward auditory learning as their preferred learning method. We have, we have there are, which is the reading and writing. People who read stuff. People who, right, there are a lot of folks. When I do a workshop, the folks are taking notes and I said, do you ever look at the notes and they say, and I don’t often look at the notes, but the process of writing it down helps the landed in my brain. So I remember it. So those are those are and the k is the kinesthetic people who learned by physically doing things, by manipulating things by handling stuff. So part of my challenge as a trainer and I’ll get to the overstuffed piece in the second here is I want to create learning experience that serves all those kinds of learners. And so if you are standing at the front of the room and you’re showing slides to people and you’re talking at them, and that’s all you’re doing as a trainer, You’re missing half the room, because that’s not their learning style, that’s not how they engage stuff. And so the hard work and the interesting work as a trainer, and I would say, as a facilitator to is to is to design it in a way that it serves a variety of learning styles and learning needs. And when I see an overstuffed agenda, what that looks like to me is somebody has a whole lot of content that they feel like they have to share in the way that they’re going to teach people is by shoving all this into their face as fast as they can, and the theory that if you give them more, they’re going to absorb more, and I just don’t think that works. So going back to what you said, hey, you got to start with your goals, like what am I trying to accomplish in this particular training? What do I want people to master right

[00:36:30.13] spk_1:
now? Okay, yeah,

[00:36:32.43] spk_0:
then once you’ve got that, then the question is, how do we design something that’s accessible to a variety of

[00:37:04.63] spk_1:
learners? Before we, before we continue, I have to uh, add a couple of things, uh, listeners are going to admonish me if I don’t thank you for identifying of arc, because not probably radio we have drug in jail. So if you hadn’t methodically explained each element of bark, then it would have been a serious transgressor and you would have been uh, promptly escorted to jargon, jail free

[00:37:09.83] spk_0:
at last free at last. Yes, you are almighty, I’m free at last.

[00:37:29.23] spk_1:
You are. Um, and I recently had a guest, uh, Laurie listeners remember Laurie Krauss talking about public speaking, the research shows that people retain something like, uh, oh, something like a very small percentage. I don’t know, 2% or 10%. It’s like,

[00:37:31.00] spk_0:
Yeah, I know this data. Yeah. They will they retain 10% of what you say, but they’ll retain 90% of what they do

[00:37:38.63] spk_1:
what they’re doing there. There’s your K. There’s, you can see that, that’s

[00:41:33.41] spk_0:
the K and but it’s also the reading and the talking and the small groups. Okay, so let me make this simple for people, if I’m doing a half day training, you know, like, I’m doing a fundraising training or board development, whatever it could be an hour, and it doesn’t really matter. But let’s say I’ve got you for a morning, the way the way I designed this, and it’s another shout out to our colleague Andrea Kill Stead, who she and I did a book together called train your board and everyone else to raise money. And we spent a lot of time talking through this. Um, hey, I’m going to give you some content. Now, the chunk of content I give you is not going to exceed 15 or 20 minutes. It’s a short piece of, here’s some information you need having, given you that content. I’m then going to launch an exercise or an activity where you work with that content. So maybe there’s some small groups or maybe there’s a writing exercise or maybe it’s a role play. I mean, every fundraising trainer in the world has done role plays where people practice a pitch or practice listening or whatever, right? And then after the exercises over there is going to be some time to debrief and, and think about like what did you just learn? What will you take away from that exercise? And for me it’s always that pattern. Here’s some content now, you’re going to work with the content now, you’re going to reflect on what you learned and how you might use it. And if you had me as your trainer or facilitator for a half a day workshop, you would see this pattern repeated six or seven times in three hours. Um I’m gonna give you some stuff and I’m not going to stand there and talk to you for 60 minutes. I’m not gonna do that. Here’s a chunk of info work with the info. What did you learn? And if you retain nothing else from this part of my conversation with Tony, this is what I want you to retain. Is that pattern repeats itself. And if you can vary up the design of the exercises like okay here’s a writing exercise and the next one is a small group discussion and the next one might be a sequencing exercise where you like I’ve done, I’ve done a class where um we do, we organize a 12 week major gifts campaign um like how to do a speed major gifts campaign. And I will create like post it notes or cards that you put up on the wall. That’s a week one, week two, week three, week four. And then I create cards with a bunch of the activities like call donors, set up appointments, build a gift pyramid, all of those things and I put them all out on the table and I have people try and sequence them and they’re doing in a small group. So what are we doing? Week one, what are we doing? So it’s a classic farc via RK activity because there’s the visual piece, there’s the auditory piece of talking with each other and figuring out where we sequence stuff. There’s the reading and writing piece because you’re reading them, I’ll also give them some blank cards in case I’ve forgotten a step they want to add and I’ll give them a market so they can actually write additional steps. And then there’s the kinesthetic piece of physically manipulating these cards and putting them on a calendar. Um, So that might be, you know, 20 minutes and break out to do that exercise. And then we come back and I said like, what did you learn? Yeah. You know, and what tends to happen in that particular exercises, everybody wants to front load everything and so weeks one and two or look like this, my hand is like wide on the wall and when you get to week 12, there’s nothing, it’s like, okay, maybe you need to spread this out so you don’t kill yourself at the beginning of the campaign and think about a way to sequence it, that’s more humane. Um so I I say the word trainer and that’s intimidating to people because like I’m not a trainer, it’s not what I do, and there’s a tendency to want to hire people like me to come and do it, which is great, you know, I appreciate the work, but I feel like the basic skill set, anybody can learn, you don’t have to have a lot of formal training to be an effective teacher. Um more training helps, More practice helps. But if you sort of master the basics and you do some of the stuff we’re talking about, um, you’ll be good enough.

[00:41:41.91] spk_1:
Let’s talk about, let’s talk about chunking out your time. Yes. How much of that chunking out to share with the participants versus just keeping it to yourself?

[00:43:43.60] spk_0:
Okay. It’s a nice sophisticated question and I’ll give you a two part answer. Part one is that I tend to underestimate the amount of time it takes to do whatever I’m doing. This is true in consulting. This is true in cleaning my house. Um, this is just true in training or cutting the grass or whatever, right? It always takes longer than I think. So my skill set in that area needs improvement even at this advanced stage. Um, Having said that, I have done both times agendas and untimed agendas and what I tend to do if it’s new content and I’m figuring it out is I’ll do a trainer agenda, which is just for me where I’ll show what the times are, but that’s not the agenda I necessarily share with the group because I don’t want them looking at the clock and going, oh my God, we’re late. He’s running behind. Right? So you know, from, for many of the public events, I do, I give out an untimed agenda. I will show times for the brakes and I’ll show times for the start and end, but I won’t time out each section of the agenda. Having said that I’m chairing aboard now and when I do board meetings, I definitely have a timed agenda and I have a very ornate agenda and I’ll just do this from memory and you know, people can use this or not. This is a seven column agenda. The first columnist time like when something is going to start, um the second columnist topic, what are we gonna talk about? Um The third column is who is going to lead that and it ain’t always me. So I’m trying to find other people to share leading portions of the agenda. The fourth column, my favorite column is the decision we need to make around this particular item and I have a bias here and my biases. If you put together an entire agenda for a meeting and there’s no decisions that you’re making and it’s just reporting, you should think real hard about canceling the meeting because there’s so many other ways to share information now we don’t have to physically gather people just to do reports.

[00:43:52.00] spk_1:
Um,

[00:43:57.90] spk_0:
Column # five is follow up needed and you don’t always know that in advance. You might have to figure that out at the meeting.

[00:44:03.75] spk_1:
6es follow up needed.

[00:44:57.09] spk_0:
No, number four is decision of five. Forest decision five is I’m doing this from memory, tony should be very impressed with me. Um For his decision five is the follow up needed. Column number six is, who’s going to do that? Follow up In column # seven. And what’s the deadline by? When is that follow up going to occur? So what the way this works is you fill out some of it in advance, but some of it you don’t know until the meeting when you start figuring out like, okay, what’s our follow up, who’s going to do it? And so you actually use the agenda to build a work plan coming out of the meeting, who’s gonna do stuff and it it sort of creates the guts of the next meeting agenda, which is then about did we follow up? What was the outcome, What subsequent steps do we have to take? Who was going to do those steps? So, you know, I wouldn’t necessarily use that in the training. That’s more of a meeting agenda. We’re trying to get stuff done. And you know,

[00:45:16.89] spk_1:
let me ask you about your meeting agendas, us board chair, you’re saying you do share the timed agenda with everyone. I do. Everybody knows how much time is allocated to each subject? You maybe each row on the Yes, Okay. Everyone knows that.

[00:45:38.99] spk_0:
Yeah. And I put that out in advance. I’ll send that out a couple of days before the meeting. I mean I got a board meeting next Tuesday. I just, this is, this is too granular, but I just sent a notice to all the board members saying, here’s my, here’s like the four or five things I want to talk about. What am I forgetting? Are there boarded items that you want to add to the agenda And you know at least one person has written back and said yeah I’ve got more stuff for the agenda. So

[00:45:43.57] spk_1:
this can apply to any meeting again. Hell

[00:45:45.57] spk_0:
yeah, it could be a board meeting, could be a staff meeting, could be campaign committee.

[00:46:11.78] spk_1:
I’ve been in meetings where there was a time are appointed and the timer was not the the chair or the leader of the discussion that it’s someone else so that so that he or she leading the discussion can stay on topic and make sure that we’re moving each topic. But it’s the timers job to say We only have three minutes left on this 10 minute agenda item. And so it relieves the chair of the burden of watching a watching a clock. There’s actually a timer.

[00:46:39.98] spk_0:
Let me give you a pro tip. I love this suggestion. I totally support the suggestion and my pro tip is if you have somebody in the meeting, a board member, staff member, whomever it is that likes to talk too much and dominates ask them to be the timer because they’re going to be spending more time looking at the clock and trying to keep other people moving rather than pontificating um and taking up all the airwave. So

[00:46:42.31] spk_1:
with something else being

[00:46:50.48] spk_0:
go, it’s a deflection strategy. Um Yeah, that’s my favorite. Um So I bet you have other training questions you brought today since you’re better prepared than I am.

[00:47:17.88] spk_1:
Well, I feel like we’ve covered a lot. Um All right, let’s just let’s, let’s wrap up with managing time is your job. I think that’s that’s critical managing it subsumed in what we’ve been saying. But I want you to make it quick. You have, you have an obligation, you have a responsibility to your audience, Your meeting attendees flush that out.

[00:47:36.08] spk_0:
Thank you. Um It’s very interesting, tony that all the questions you’ve asked about training have focused on time um about not over stuffing, about to put times on agendas and it’s your job to manage time. So this is where you are and that’s interesting to me. Um So

[00:47:38.68] spk_1:
the

[00:47:43.98] spk_0:
work, the work for me as a trainer, when I get in the room, when I get in the room, I’m like doing it. I’m sorry, go ahead finish.

[00:47:51.58] spk_1:
Yeah, we’re out of time. That’s it. I’m the timer and we’re out of time by No, I’m kidding, don’t leave.

[00:49:20.47] spk_0:
Um Okay. So I guess I’m pumped defecating. There I go. Breaking my own rule. So regarding you being the boss of the time for me, the work for as a trainer is the design. It’s figuring stuff out in advance and being prepped. So when I go in the room, I don’t have to think about it too much. I can just do the work and I am doing two things. I’m paying attention to the content and I’m also paying attention to how much time things are taking and you have to have a split brain to be able to do that. Because what I’ll do in real time is all speed stuff up or I’ll slow things down based on how we’re doing against the clock. And sometimes you just have to toss stuff from your agenda because you don’t have time to do it or something more important is happening. And I’ve had, I’ve had trainings where I’ve done where we’ve gotten into really interesting deep water that’s not on the agenda and I don’t want to cut it off because it feels productive to me. So there’s an intuitive piece to this which is doing your prep, having your agenda timed out all that, but then showing up in the room and being present and seeing what’s going on and so part of managing the time is reading the room in understanding how much energy there is around the topic. Sometimes I’ll toss stuff because it just doesn’t feel like there’s any energy to embrace it and you know, I’ll go where the energy of the group is. So to me that’s one answer to your question is to prepare rigorously, but be prepared to throw out what you have prepared if the group is taking you in a different direction and the time is not lining up with what you expected

[00:50:32.36] spk_1:
and not only to throw things out, but I want to amplify something you said to spend more time on something or maybe accelerate your time, not throw something out, but accelerate your time and that’s where you know this becomes an art when on the fly, I do stand up comedy and you gotta, you gotta read the room if if certain jokes are working then you you do more of them and if another topic isn’t you you you move off it, but it’s the same as, it’s the same in a webinar or a facilitation or a face to face meeting the ability to move on the fly, intuitive, intuitively based on the clock and and the energy in the room, you know, you gotta, you gotta be watching both and that’s where it sort of one is quantitative the clock, there’s there’s no beating time. The other reason, how are people reacting to the material and where is their focus?

[00:51:31.16] spk_0:
Yeah. And the other part, I would say, and as a stand up comedian, you understand this. The other part is you don’t want to drive a particular agenda items so far that the energy goes out from it. You want to get out where there’s still some energy left. And sometimes I’ve I’ve co trained with people who wanted to milk a discussion until it completely died and then move to the next thing and you got to get out of a piece of content before all the energy is out. And you know, I mean, again, I think if you if you’re riffing on a joke, you have to learn how to get out before you’ve killed the joke. And um so I would say yes and I mean the I I that’s what I love about training is being in the room and getting that ended her back from the group. It’s been interesting doing this on zoom right and trying to figure out how to, how to transition that energy of the group into a room into something that works remotely. Um, but yes, your job is to both pay attention and be intuitive and serve the group and also managed the clock simultaneously.

[00:51:45.86] spk_1:
We’re gonna leave it there. He’s Andy Robinson, Andy Robinson online dot com. Andy. Thank you very much. tony

[00:51:58.06] spk_0:
It was fun. I’m glad we mastered the technology and I look forward to being in touch with you in the future and I hope folks will reach out if I can be of service to them by everybody.

[00:52:30.55] spk_1:
It certainly should be next week. More coverage of 21 NTCC I think if you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com was sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o and by sending blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. And we did indeed overcome the technology triumph triumph over the technology challenges today. Thanks for hanging in there with us.

[00:53:10.45] spk_2:
Are created. Museum is Claire Meyerhoff shows, social media is by Susan chapman. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Mhm. Thank you for that information. Scotty. He wrote me next week for nonprofit radio Big non profit ideas for the Other 95 go out and be great. Yeah. Mhm.

Nonprofit Radio for May 17, 2021: Your Partnerships With FGWs

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Esther Choy: Your Partnerships With FGWs

First Generation Wealth creators have different values and mindsets than those who inherited their wealth. And FGWs far outnumber the inheritors. Esther Choy’s research will help you understand these folks and how to build valuable relationships with them. She’s president of Leadership Story Lab.

 

 

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[00:00:10.64] spk_2:
Hello and welcome

[00:01:47.84] spk_1:
To Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast and I’m glad you’re with me, I’d suffer with lateral epic and colitis if you gave me the elbow and told me you missed this week’s show your partnerships with F G W s first generation wealth creators have different values and mindsets than those who inherited their wealth and F GWS far outnumber the inheritors Esther choice research will help you understand these folks and how to build valuable relationships with them. She’s President of Leadership Story lab and tony state too, in praise of donors like my dad, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s a pleasure to welcome to nonprofit radio Esther choi she is President and Chief story facilitator at leadership Story Lab, teaching storytelling to institutional and individual clients or searching for more meaningful ways to connect with their audiences. She’s a contributor for Forbes Leadership Strategy Group and you may have seen her quoted in leading media outlets like the new york Times and entrepreneur dot com. Her practice is at leader Story lab and leadership Story lab dot com. Mr choi welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:01:50.29] spk_0:
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:06.24] spk_1:
It’s a real pleasure. Welcome. Um you you have you have some new research out that we need to, we need to talk about transforming partnerships with major donors. What are, let’s let’s just jump right in and why don’t you explain what F. G. W. Folks are? And uh tell us a little about your research that you did with these F. G. W folks

[00:03:57.54] spk_0:
sgw folks? Well, I recently published as a research report um and lucky enough to have a really, really good exposure, such as the one you mentioned in the new york times. And uh, there are a lot of surprises about the folks that we generally in the broader society, just just overly sort of broad and call them the rich people or the wealthy folks or the high net worth individual or the ultra high net worth individuals as if they all belonged in this model is a group that they all think act believe in the same way. And so I got curious about them after I’ve taught uh, in this major gift strategy program at Kellogg for awhile, wondering why are these people so hard to get What, uh, because so many nonprofits is doing amazing and moving and important and urgent work that no one else is doing. So why is it so hard to reach them? So I dug further end. Uh, did a lot of homework and I interviewed 20 very, um there are ultra high network folks and I just ask some questions about how did they get you their wealth? What is it like? Um are there any downsides too well having wealth and so on and so forth, and focusing on philanthropy. Um so this report, I can talk about anyone number of ways. So you tell me, what do you, what do you want to most learn about these first generation wealth creators? Well, let’s

[00:04:01.27] spk_1:
let’s start with how big a proportion they are of the of the wealthy,

[00:05:24.64] spk_0:
wow, I am glad you start. That’s the starting point. Um that’s one of the biggest surprises that I’ve learned because they are At least 68 Of the, this massive group that we call wealthy, ultra high net worth. They are at least 68 of them earn their wealth instead of inherited. That’s a big, big difference between inherited wealth versus earned wealth and that means they’ve traveled a entire social economic class That they did not grow up with. And so some of them, very few of them really make the majority of their wealth in their thirties or even 40s. Most of them are in their 50s and 60s. So we’re talking about full on grown adults with Children and maybe even grandchildren by the time they become um this wealthy. So it’s a very interesting transformation of your life, your community, your social circles, the things that you worry about Or not worry about all happen around starting from the point of 50s and 60s.

[00:05:42.34] spk_1:
All right, So, so they’re at least two thirds, but maybe even a little more than two thirds of all the, all the wealthy folks. The way we would describe as you’re saying, high net worth, Ultra high net worth. These are these are 2/3 of those folks,

[00:05:46.24] spk_0:
correct at least. And it’s actually you

[00:05:49.01] spk_1:
said 68%.

[00:05:51.10] spk_0:
68%. I picked the most conservative number, but I’ve read elsewhere too. And put that to um somewhere 80,

[00:06:14.44] spk_1:
80%. Okay. Alright. 800. And and everybody you interviewed is first generation wealth. That’s that’s where your research was correct on those folks. Okay. So let’s get to know them a little bit. Um, your research has uh, a nice chart. I like, I like pictures of the first thing I look for in books and pictures. Uh, simple, simple. You’re you’re burdened with the host with a simple mind. Um, but you do have these, these pillars of wealth generation. So let’s describe these folks, not, not not all three. I mean, people are just gonna have to get the research, you know, I’m not going to quiz you, I’m not quizzing you on block number four in line three on the no we’re not doing that. I don’t want to go like word by word because people got to get the research. Which which is that? Leadership story lab dot com. Right.

[00:06:47.04] spk_0:
Alright, okay. You can download,

[00:07:07.34] spk_1:
yeah, there’s an executive summary and you can download the full report as well. Right? So leadership Story lab dot com for the full thing, for the full, for the full study. Um But let’s get to know these folks a little bit these these first generation wealth creators. Um you start by saying they’re understated. There may be even humble, are they are they to the point of being humble and modest,

[00:08:01.84] spk_0:
humble and modest and they have a hard time. They have a hard time with the, with the word wealthy, they understand the size of their assets, They understand um what they are capable of affording, which is basically anything, but they have a hard time with the label wealthy and um they oftentimes think of in regard and never really left their middle class roots and that’s the majority of them come from very middle class, you know, they don’t want to be flashy, nor did they enjoy flashy things that attract attention. So um you know, make no mistake, they are part of things that are very um you know, shiny and, and sophisticated and, and high quality, but it’s not who they are inside. So that’s one thing to keep in mind is that they are very understated themselves and they often appreciate other people as well as other things that are understated.

[00:08:31.64] spk_1:
You make the point a couple of times of saying that they don’t they don’t identify themselves as wealthy even though they know that they fit into that category, correct? Okay. Um so you sat down and you you met these folks, you, well maybe not face to face, but you you spoke with these people or couples or how did how did that all work?

[00:09:12.34] spk_0:
Yeah, So I did all the interviews with in partnership with the research firm And it’s all done virtually because it was done in 2020. Um There was one noted exception um where I was invited to her home uh and I met all her kids and her husband’s and you know, it’s just like the whole family in the background and it’s kind of funny to talk about her family while her family was around, but for the most part it was done um through zoom One through calls and then um there are four people, so two couples. Um I interviewed them at the same time together and uh the length just got doubled. Um you know, it’s usually 50, 50 minutes to an hour and with a couple um we talked for over an hour and a half.

[00:09:34.84] spk_1:
All right. All right. How do you, I’m interested in some of the details. How do you reach out to these folks? How do you, how do you get their

[00:10:58.44] spk_0:
attention? It’s really hard. So the first thing we mentioned um in one of the four pillars is their understated right? They don’t identify with the word wealthy. They certainly don’t make big advertisement to the world that they are wealthy. And so to find them and to get them to agree to speak on record, although it’s anonymous. Um and to get them to open up and talk about money and wealth. It’s really hard so I have to rely on a couple of key relationships. Um One is through one of my alma Mata um texas A. And M. University. And my friend and colleague, the ceo of texas A. And M. Foundation help me recruit a few quite a few of these interviewees. Uh My business partner who also happens to be a uh trustee at the University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati foundations and um through a couple of my own resources as well as my research firms. So 20 for qualitative studies is you know, sufficient. It’s definitely not a lot. 20 people doesn’t sound like a lot but 20 of these type of people and get them to talk about very sensitive topic. Um was it took quite a bit just to get them to agree to talk to me.

[00:11:13.64] spk_1:
Go. Aggies.

[00:11:14.34] spk_0:
Thank

[00:11:18.54] spk_1:
you. Absolutely. Um And what was the median income for these 20 folks families?

[00:12:25.64] spk_0:
So um at this point I don’t think their income is very meaningful any anymore. So where I am uh by median I would refer to their uh their their networks. So the net worth the median range is 50 to 80 million. Um Although um the low I would put it in the low teens, the highs I would put them in 100 and 50 just give you give you give our listeners a sense as well of what we’re talking about like by Well you know millions is like a lot of Zeros. You know at some point it’s just like my mind can’t keep them all in one place. Um according to the Fed in 2020 the top one of the U. S. Um Folks have 11 million. So these are all um uh you know sort of the top 1%. Er And um

[00:12:35.44] spk_1:
If for the one even right right mid teens to 50 or so was was roughly the median net worth.

[00:13:07.24] spk_0:
Exactly exactly. But then if you think about the one of 300 million people in the us That’s three million 3 million people. And that is about the size. If you put them all in one city all in one location there just below new york city, just below new york, just below Los Angeles but just above the city of Chicago. Mm So three million people. That’s a lot of people.

[00:13:27.04] spk_1:
Okay. And And you estimate conservatively that of those 3,068 our first generation they earn their wealth versus inherited. Okay. All right let’s go back to get to know these folks a little bit um uh their entrepreneurial, no surprise but tell us what, what does that mean for the way they think about themselves and the way they might think about uh, their philanthropy.

[00:15:37.94] spk_0:
Yeah, so in the most literal sense, they are were entrepreneurs. That’s how they created, most of them created their wealth and with a few um less than 20 of them had a very lucrative corporate careers. And entrepreneurs also means that it’s a mindset, it’s the lenses in which they apply all things through. Um So it could be the way um that they would like their Children or grandchildren to approach um you know, if I wanted to study abroad even um and you know, I need additional funding. Well, how much you think about it as what untapped opportunities might there be out there for you in this country that you want to study, but it’s not currently fully leveraged. Um but entrepreneurial could also means to, as they think about non profit, as they really think about how they want to leave their social impact and how they want to fully make sure that their philanthropic dollar is put to good use that also applied and, um, compatible with their middle class values. So, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s up and down side, right? Um, sometimes something just can’t be measured. Sometimes nonprofits are run by people who are philanthropic reminded and socially minded and they don’t necessarily have the same sort of business acumen as, as, as well as, um, fear competitiveness, um, that these donors tend to have an embody. And so the downside of having that entrepreneurial mindset is that sometimes it creates clashes. And if, you know, at the very least disagreements on, is this really the best use of the precious dollars that your organizations have? Um, sometimes there’s no straight black and white answer yes and no. Um So um that’s what I mean by entrepreneurial

[00:15:52.04] spk_1:
And what else what comes next in those four

[00:16:03.84] spk_0:
pillars? So the third is free and I truly it seems like a very simple no nonsense and and and we’re like oh we live in a free society. But I think the truth of the matter is that a lot of people are not free, they are not free to pursue whatever they want, they are under certain professional career obligations or financial pressures

[00:16:22.84] spk_1:
and they are a lot of options.

[00:17:44.94] spk_0:
Yeah, exactly. And that’s why a lot of career counselors ask mid to even late career folks, you know, what would you do if money is not an issue? Right? I’ve heard that questions asked a lot in Korea counseling because a lot of people are under that pressure. But these F. G. W. S. They are not and for them it’s often times for the first time is, wow, now it’s not a theoretical questions anymore, I really don’t have to worry about money. Okay so now what what do we do? And so um a lot of them pursue experiences, a lot of them want the same thing for the Children and grandchildren. Um They uh pursued 3rd 4th 5th careers that they’ve always are interested, intrigued by, know that they’re not very good at and know that they probably may not may or may not be able to make a ton of money with. Um But they pursue it anyway, so it’s that sense of freedom. Um that I think a lot of people as long as they have to still worry about saving for retirement, saving for making sure you can pay your mortgage and things like that. It’s really hard to wrap your mind about. And then these folks are just sort of Mhm fully embracing,

[00:17:56.94] spk_1:
may want their Children to understand that having a wealth of options doesn’t just come, it comes from hard work and and devotion, which is what they devoted their decades too, so they want their Children understand that, that does just doesn’t just happen for everyone.

[00:19:40.94] spk_0:
Yeah, I’m glad you bring up Children across all 20 of them, even though the ages ranges from Late 40s to a few 80s, um they all worry about their kids even though their kids have all grown up or they have worry about their kids or have regrets about uh the way that they raised the ways that they pass on their assets uh to their kids. And the funny thing is that they did not tell me oh I have so and so um I really can confide in or I know these uh professional resources uh that I can go to and um all of them are just kind of like, I hope I’m doing the right thing. In fact, I know I haven’t done the right thing, but then talking to piers surprisingly was not an option across any of them. And so although they’re free, but this taboo topic of money and wealth have prevented them from really searching for the right answers at the time when decisions had to be made. So Children, it’s a constant universal worries, especially for people with wealth. Um, we’ve seen from studies after studies that for example, substance abuse tend to affect um, Children from families with means disproportionately higher than those who are not from a family with means.

[00:20:45.54] spk_1:
I wonder if there’s some tension for them because they’re not comfortable talking to those who inherited their wealth or even just other wealthy people because they don’t they don’t identify that way, but then they’re not comfortable talking to those folks that they knew when they were struggling in their careers and before they’re they’re great success there, great financial success will qualify that because success can take lots of, have lots of different levels to it, but before the great financial success, because they, like, they don’t want to, they don’t want to appear overbearing to their non wealthy friends who they know from high school and college and, you know, maybe professional school or you know, whatever. Uh so there they, like, caught in the middle, like, they don’t have valuable personal relationships to, to leverage and count on in in in times like when they’re questioning what, what to do with Children and, you know, sort of existential questions like that.

[00:22:44.14] spk_0:
Yeah, so this is another downside of being entrepreneur. Um another way to call someone very entrepreneur is what, you know, he’s he has a can do spirit, she has a can do spirit. So if you can do, you can do it yourself, you don’t need to count on other people to help you, you can pull yourself up by the boot strap. So uh that’s one and two is again, the subject of wealth, it tends to be taboo. Um in fact, the broken institute economist Isabel Saw Hill made this really app as observation and she said that people rather talked about sex than money and money than class. So first generational wealth creators have travel across classes and so that makes it really hard for them to say, you know, I don’t know what’s the right way if we do, if we travel, is it wrong for us to buy business class or first class and what are your middle class friends going to say? Poor tony poor Esther you’re struggling with questions like should you travel in business versus first class and it’s not something that a lot of people, first of all empathize with, and second of all have the right context to give sound councils and what about professional um coaches and um counselors and whatnot? I didn’t actually covered in the report, I chose to exclude it and just in the in favor of focusing on nonprofit and fundraising. But their experience with uh wealth management advisors are very mixed because it’s an industry that has a lot of conflict of interest. There are some really, really good

[00:23:04.54] spk_1:
let us in on something that didn’t make the report, this is great not profit radio you gotta let us in on the, on the, on the back story. What? Say a little more about these, the trouble they’ve had the mixed results, mixed results, I’m sure some have been, some results were fine, some relationships are fine, but so a little more about what didn’t make the final report there.

[00:24:40.84] spk_0:
Um I cut a whole section of just because I think it might be detrimental to getting people to read it when it’s beyond a certain length. So this whole section that I cut off was on um, how they view advisors, um, counselors and things like that. And indeed, you know, uh, two words to describe the entire section is that it’s very mixed. Um, some have great experience, some on the other end of the extreme is um, they thought the people they interacted with is just uh, the advice weren’t very good or too obvious or that again, they can do it themselves. Why do I need to pay you so much money to tell me something I know already. And uh, and, and by the way, that is somewhat parallel to their experience with uh, fundraisers. So I don’t want to just put the hammer on uh, wild advisors and and and um, tax advisers and whatnot. Um, because this idea that, oh, we know you’re wealthy, we know what you can do with your money, either for the benefit of yourself as well as for me or my organizations. That really changed the dynamic of the conversations as well as the services, how services rendered and that’s to their relative to their expectations. Um, so that’s why it’s not very helpful I think just to come off and um list a bunch of things that they’re not happy with without being able to say what would be helpful. So I just removed the whole section and also in favorite of keeping it readable length.

[00:32:20.44] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. You remember them, you’ve been hearing about them, the biden tax plan, the infrastructure plan, immigration. Is there anything in there in these continuing conversations that you’d like to be heard on? Anything in their impacting your work? Anything in there that you’re expert on and you need to be heard. You want to be a trusted source on something that’s under constant conversation and it’s in the press turn to has the relationships that can make that happen. They are a trusted source by lots of media outlets. They can get you heard on the subjects that you know best and that your expert on let them use their relationships to help you because your story is their mission. Turn life into dot C. O. It’s time for Tony’s take two In praise of donors like my dad. My dad is 88 years old and he gives to dozens of nonprofits a month. I have seen the checks that he writes now, 88 years old. So you know, he’s not doing online giving, he’s not doing online bill paying. He writes cheques for those of you not acquainted with checks. They come with check registers. That’s a little booklet that you can write all your checks in. So you can reconcile month after month, right? It’s an old process, but For an 88 year old, it’s the way it gets done. He’s outgrown check registers. He writes so many checks to charities each month that he just keeps a running list on sheets of paper. And there are so many check entries on each sheet that the sheets are curling up a little bit. When the sheet is complete, it’s almost like parchment. It’s curled up a little bit because there’s three columns Of checks in on each page. I don’t mean each check takes up three columns. I mean there are three columns of checks on an 8.5 by 11 page. He’s got a he’s got the check number, his own abbreviation of the name of the charity and then the amount and uh, he’s got the date, it’s got the date in there too. And so that’s how he reconciles. Uh, so yeah, dozens of checks to charities per month that, you know, that’s a kind of giving that I only and experience with through him because I do plan to giving, which is on the other end of the spectrum of giving. Um, he certainly doesn’t consider himself a philanthropist, but he’s very, very supportive of charities and and how does he choose the ones? Well, first of all they find him, I don’t know how the list exchanges or sales work, but charities come to him. So they send him U. S. Mail. He’s got no email, he’s got no cell phone. Um We’ll get to vetting in a second. So charities right to him. And he read the materials he scrutinizes, he decides whether he thinks the work is merits, his giving and something that he wants to give to, something he’s interested in. And then he goes to the Better Business Bureau. Why is giving alliance report on charities? And why does he choose that one? Because it’s in print, there’s no going online to charity navigator or any other rating service. Uh, that’s online. He goes to the print the booklet. So Better Business Bureau and if he likes your work and you’re listed in the Better Business Bureau, giving booklet rated well in there. Then he writes a check and you probably, these charities are writing to him again a month later and there’s a good chance he’s writing a check a month later, et cetera. It’s a very iterative process. There’s no real learning that goes on. I can’t say there’s a feedback and improvement part to the iterations. But, uh, the cycle continues. You know, we need people like that. These small donors. That’s a, you know, some people prefer to say modest donors. I’m not commenting on my dad’s or anyone else’s character. When I say small donors, it doesn’t mean that he’s a small person. Just he gives small gifts. So I avoid the euphemism, I just say he’s a small donor. We need small donors like this. You know, they he’s loyal. Once you, once you meet his threshold and it’s not very high what I described, then you’ve got him for a long time. Don’t try to upgrade him though. He’s not going to become a major donor and he’s not gonna put you in his will. I’ll see that that part. So forget the planned gift. That’s not happening. No, but he’s not, he doesn’t think that way. He’s never gone deeper with any charity that he gives to the way I’m describing. We need folks like that. We need the, uh, $10, $15 $20 donors. And in some respects, he’s a recurring donor. I mean, he is a recurring donor. He’s just is not part of your monthly recurring program that’s set up automatic, you know, the automatic debits credits. Um, he’s not, he’s not one of those, but he’s he’s a recurring donor. So in praise of donors, like my dad, it’s very interesting to watch him. We’ve talked about his process. Yeah, We need folks like that. And here we are talking about future, um, or wealthy, wealthy folks. I’m sorry, first generation wealth. Here we are talking about. And my dad, is that the, well, these folks, I would put plan giving at the far end of the spectrum. So these folks are near there, but my dad’s at the, on the left side of the spectrum. We need them all. We need all these donors. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo, but loads more time for your partnership with F. G. W. S. All right. Finally, these folks are lone rangers. What does that

[00:35:39.44] spk_0:
mean? Um, we touch upon it a little bit where we, um, you know, they are part of this new class of wealth. They’re like immigrants in some way. By the way, I really wanted to recommend a few books, uh, not just mine, um, that really helped me round out my understanding. So this whole idea of um, think of first generation wealth creators as immigrants. Um, they have migrated from a different class altogether and enter into this world where the beliefs, um, the values and oftentimes even language, um, or foreign to them and although it’s great, this is paradise. Um, they often find that there are tricky conditions. Some even would say because their native born Children and grandchildren, um, don’t understand the privileged privileges that they were born and then we’ve gotten accustomed to you. Um, and the cliche or the adage or however you wanna wanna wanna call it shirtsleeves, to shirtsleeves, rice paddies to rice patties, wealth does not last past three generations and they know that. And so when you think about this special Land of Paradise again, by the way, this is uh, I learned it through the book called uh strangers in Paradise by James Grubman. Um, their need of born Children and a grandchildren, statistically speaking, will be deported back to harsher land where the first generation have migrated from. And um, and here’s the kick tony I, I just, I just found it fascinating and this is why I can talk about this, you know, forever and ever mismanagement of their wealth, taxes and inflations and bad investments. All of those are more just the natural delusions from, you know, the couple, two Children, two grandchildren, right? All of those reasons are reasons for wealth, not being able to last past three generations, but you will probably, I’ve never found anyone cases for example, or family where the story basically is, well, grandpa and grandma gave it all the way to charity and left nothing to us. That’s why we’re poor again, you know, that just doesn’t happen. And so what my I think what I really want to focus on, I think the opportunities for non profit is that what might there be an um different way to think about the conversations that you have with these donors where you help them solve a problem or maybe many problems and then you also help yourself um solved the problem. By the way, I’m getting like, way, way, wait, this is a problem when you we have no script. I’m getting like way away from the lone ranger questions. I’m going to bring

[00:35:49.36] spk_1:
you back, but I

[00:35:51.31] spk_0:
but I think I’m getting to the whole

[00:35:58.84] spk_1:
profit radio No, no, you’re not. You’re, what you’re saying is still valuable. Don’t don’t 2nd guess yourself. What

[00:36:34.33] spk_0:
I’m, what I’m getting at is that it’s lonely to be first general. It can be lonely to be a first generation immigrant. Mhm. Except that most immigrants have somehow found other immigrants and they talked, they share notes that commiserates, they help each other out. But um, first generation wealth creators are particular type of immigrants where for all the reasons that we’ve talked about, they don’t actively look for help nor was real quality help readily available.

[00:37:15.83] spk_1:
Okay, interesting, really fascinating analogy analogizing them to immigrants. Um, did you, did you put any of them together uh, since you met 20 of them and got to know them? So these folks that are, uh, feeling loan, feeling loan, I don’t know, lonely, I’m just using what I’m not saying, they’re lonely in their lives. Maybe they are, but they’re lone rangers. Did you, did you put any of these folks together? Say look, you know, I met I met so and so like two or three weeks ago. And she was saying the same thing that you’re saying, you know, one of the two of you talk or would you be interested? You know, did you put any folks together to help them? Uh commiserating at least maybe even help. Maybe at best help each other.

[00:37:21.08] spk_0:
I

[00:37:23.32] spk_1:
think I

[00:37:44.63] spk_0:
Would I would if I were asked, but with these 20, because of the promise of confidentiality, um, I don’t share their names or contact with anyone, but um, I have done webinars since then where I was asked. So how do you find these people? And then if if they asked me then I will help.

[00:37:49.37] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, well I’m like a connector. So I was thinking, you know, if I could get her permission, would you like to talk to her? Because the two of you are saying things that are really identical and maybe together, you could help each other

[00:39:15.72] spk_0:
as well as having very similar questions. And this is where I was getting at the opportunity part because they’ve asked questions like how much and when should I pass my asset to my kids and grandkids, It’s dealt with by, um, with wealth advisors on a very case by case basis. And I think that should be, that’s the way it should be done. But what’s really sorely missing is how do other families handle this right to your questions of? Well, there are other people like me, what do they do? Because they’re in my boat? Um, so as well as questions like how do I get in sync with my spouse? Um, and then they also have questions on like, how do you truly vet? um, a non, a non for profit, you know, and how do you help? Not my, you know, the nonprofits that you support become more efficient and they are aware that not coming off as because I’m a donor, I give money and um, you should do what I tell you to do. Um, things like that, you know, that productive relationship with nonprofits. So there are endless questions like this that they can talk about, not just commiserated, although commiserating is great too.

[00:39:49.42] spk_1:
All right. I don’t know. I think you could be a connector, a major connector. Um, and I notice I’ll leave that there. Uh, but you know, the title of your research is transforming partnerships with major donors. So, so let’s let’s let’s transition to some of those opportunities. You talked about problem solving that could be mutually beneficial. How do I would’ve fundraiser ceo approach someone with that with that kind of opportunity?

[00:39:59.62] spk_0:
Yeah, so I want to break it down to three steps. I want to break one,

[00:40:00.91] spk_1:
2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 3 step process. Okay.

[00:40:03.92] spk_0:
Yeah. Well, yeah, okay, you can call it a three step sauces,

[00:40:07.35] spk_1:
but I didn’t invent it, you made it

[00:42:35.30] spk_0:
up. I think the first thing is you have to really think about the questions you ask them and uh, oftentimes, how curious how respectful for how informed you are are all set out by the kind of questions you asked? Are your questions mostly really at the end of that they self serving. Um or are you only focusing on a very narrow aspects of the donors? Um or are you really broadly interested in problem solving? Now, here’s another thing that entrepreneurs like to do, they like to solve problems and oftentimes they take the same mindset towards non profit Am I really giving to an organizations that are going to solve real major problems in assisting for sustainable way. Um, so that’s the first thing is the questions that you ask And then two is reading once you really find out about uh, you know, what you could learn from the donors, is that really being able to pair what your nonprofits have to offer and that structure in a way as well as well as frame it in a way that, uh, fits the mindset of, well, oftentimes the folks are very busy, they know they need to do something, but they’re very busy. So, um, how is it, uh, how do you make it easy for them? In other words? And then, um, the last thing I would say is, um, it would how do you acknowledge them? Right. Um, it sounds really obvious, right? You know, their stewardship program, there are people will involve in thanking donors. But what I’ve found is that people found, uh, people thought there’s not enough thank you or there’s too much thank you. And they’re not thank through the right medium. And so, Uh, we’re not talking about, you know, $10 $20 where there may be hundreds and thousands of them and you can’t manage them one by one and customized it. But with major donors, it’s absolutely worth it to make sure that is customized to their preferences needs. So questions, the way that you frame as well as the acknowledgment part

[00:43:38.80] spk_1:
and the acknowledgement of the stewardship is interesting. Um, you say somewhere that they, these folks have a hard time understanding, uh, the name on a building. You know, why that why people find that appealing? Why some donors find that appealing? So, so a brick and mortar in fundraising was a brick and mortar recognition would not necessarily be appealing to them. But finding out what is appealing comes from, you know, maybe this, this three steps is sort of iterative, right? And if you’re starting to get near, uh, near something promising, you want to, you want to be finding out to about what they would like in terms of acknowledgement. Yeah. How would you like to be recognized what’s important to you?

[00:43:42.92] spk_0:
So I have a friend of mine who advised nonprofits with operations like this. And um, she helped one of them. She said, you know what, why don’t you just want to just ask?

[00:43:57.37] spk_1:
Yeah.

[00:45:25.09] spk_0:
Uh huh. So he did, he created a survey through surveymonkey and you know, they have more than a handful so they can’t just call them up and ask them individually. So, um, he created a survey and he got over 70 response rate, which is really, really good, right? If you’re for for survey. And um, so the survey basically center around 33 things. Um, how would you like to be think? How often would you like to be think and through which medium do you most prefer to be think? And it’s not only do they have really good a feedback, but it’s such a positive gesture from the non profit to the donors saying, hey, we actually admit we don’t know, but we care and we should, we know what we don’t know and we care and now we really would like to learn more from our donors And that truly is a practical, helpful, informative donor centric step to take. And by the way, her name is Lisa Greer. She also has a incredibly helpful book called philanthropy revolutions. So it’s a mixed of, um, it’s a mix of memoir, it’s a mix of research because she told her story, but she also has interviewed over 100 principal gift level donors and um, and uh, and the last mix of how to. So it’s super helpful.

[00:45:41.44] spk_1:
How does lisa spell her last

[00:45:45.69] spk_0:
name? G R E R lisa Greer.

[00:45:54.79] spk_1:
What else? What else can you tell us Esther that uh, in terms of approaching these folks? Um, how about you get, I have a question for a little more specific question. How about you get their attention?

[00:49:04.47] spk_0:
Yeah, I know, um, getting the first meeting, it’s like 50 or 60 or, I don’t know, 70 of the work just being able to get in the call. Um, I think everything matters in the smallest amount of space, which is if you have no other ways to reach them. What do most people do? Emails and so make sure that your subject lined is the most attention grabbing as well as intriguing possible. Uh, way to, to get people’s attention by the way I have. I don’t know if I can memorize the four persona um, off the top of my head. Oh actually I do, I have it right in front of me. Um, my colleague scott more Dell. Um, he is the longest serving ceo of Waipio global young presidents organizations. So these are a lot of the highly concentrated, um first generation wealth around the world, 30,000 of them are around the world. Um, he actually put the their philanthropic tendencies in four ways. Um the idealist is the first one. Those are the ones that you want to make a true impact, long lasting impact. Soft societal problem. Another one is called the legacy Leader. Those are the one who really loves to leave, make sure they name last generations and generations that they are getting credit for the big impact that they made. The third one is called the model citizens and those are the ones that look around and understand what is the highest and highest of highest level of service and they want to be there and the philanthropic effort reflects that. And then the fourth one is called the busy bigwig. That’s the ones who are busy, extremely busy and yet they know they should do something but they don’t know what and how and so back to your questions of how do you get their attention? I think you should first by starting with having a point of view of Mhm. Of these four possibilities which one is this person most likely going to be. And then once you have a persona in mind, then is a lot easier for you to craft a message with the subject line that is most intriguing and attention grabbing for you. I get, despite what my clients and friends and colleagues know about me, I still get these extremely bland and generic um email messages that are, you know, if you just replace the logo of the nonprofits, I will fit anybody

[00:49:11.38] spk_1:
at

[00:49:35.07] spk_0:
all. And so, uh that would be the first thing I think about is have a persona in mind. Even if you’re wrong, it’s okay. Even if you’re wrong, at least you have a point of view about that person. But the upside is that Even if you’re not 100 right, just having the personal, that persona is going to help you speak to that person as if you know a lot about them already.

[00:49:49.87] spk_1:
Are you only really only going to get to them through an introduction or like somebody has to give you their email or I mean there’s not a directory of first generation wealth creators, is there? I know yours was obviously yours was anonymous, but because they’re a I don’t know is there a directory or

[00:50:00.81] spk_0:
something that I think that’s a really interesting question.

[00:50:04.75] spk_1:
Basic basic is what I major in

[00:51:01.96] spk_0:
basics. So really, really interesting question. I love the way you think about things. tony Um Not only is isn’t there one um they really know how to how to hide their wealth. You know, they believe in stealth wealth, not only because of the way they live their lives, but they know how to put things in all things in trust and so everything comes through a different name. And um data can help, um, the right kind of data can, uh, data enriching as well as data matching. Um, I don’t know a ton about it, but I know enough because there’s another company that I co founded that like, that’s all we do because in the old ways, how do you get names of donors? Okay. You ask your board, uh,

[00:51:20.56] spk_1:
that’s how you start. A small organization starts. But, um, but then now, I mean, now we have social media and you can have a campaign and see who gives to that. And then you then you do some research on those folks to see who, who might be, uh, have the capacity to do more. And then you expand your relationship even with the others who may not have capacity, but our willingness.

[00:51:22.66] spk_0:
But see, I I think there’s a lot in your current database that is not being fully utilized,

[00:52:05.85] spk_1:
that maybe for some folks. Yeah. And uh well, because we’re talking about stealth wealth. I mean, yeah, that’s that’s certainly possible. I mean, these these folks live modest, live modest means. I mean, Uh at least outward. Um I mean what, 20 years ago, there was the book the millionaire next door. I mean that’s essentially what we’re talking about this is there are more Zeros now and there are more of them. And we’re in a more financially mobile society now than we were 20 years ago. But the concept is the same that there are these hidden families of wealth that that are may very well be in your database. You know, then it was the millionaire next door now the millionaire in your the ultra high net worth in your database.

[00:53:26.15] spk_0:
Yeah. And when you, you know, go back to the questions, the way that you ask questions of when you have an opportunity to talk to a donor directly. As well as the way that you ask questions about your databases. Um That can really help you look for hit millionaires billionaires right in front of you were in front of your eyes. I wouldn’t be surprised that there are already uh but you aren’t you’re you’re not even aware that you’re pretty close when lisa and night um because of our share passion about this topic and she’s really doing it full time. I’m doing this. This is because This is my baby. Uh you know the first time she wanted to make a a principal gift um to her local hospital. Um she uh budget for $2 million dollars for her hospital and it took the hospital seven months to pay attention to her. And $2 million dollars isn’t a small amount for that hospital. It is definitely a major amount.

[00:53:57.95] spk_1:
But the latent, unconscious sexism, I’ve heard this from women. I do plan to giving fundraising, but I’ve heard this many times from women just ignored when they made explicit overtures. Not just subtle hints, but explicit overtures. You know, I want to do this. I want to remember the organization in my estate plan and, you know, ignored, repeatedly ignored. So, unfortunately, what you’re describing, your friend, lisa’s, uh, I don’t think it’s so uncommon.

[00:54:03.23] spk_0:
Yeah, I

[00:54:21.34] spk_1:
think it’s, I think there’s some, I think there’s just unconscious latent sexual, uh, not sexuality, sexism, uh, uh, in fundraising, it’s and money is left on the table as a result, died from the morality of the, uh, of the, of that that misunderstanding.

[00:54:41.64] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. So, so it’s haven’t seen quantitative research on just how frequently that happened, but that’s leases from her research, from her personal experience from your experience. So I think there are actually plenty of money within reach of nonprofits that they probably have missed, but they didn’t know they have,

[00:55:25.64] spk_1:
we’re gonna leave it there, it’s perfect. Now you have opportunities and I know that our conversation has stimulated thinking about how to find these folks and how to transform your partnership with them Esther choi the research is transforming partnerships with major donors. I’ll give you the full title aligning the key values of first generation wealth creators and fundraisers in the age of winner takes all. You get the research at Leadership Story Lab dot com. That’s where Esther’s company is. Leadership Story Lab and also at Leader Story Lab, Esther choi I want to thank you very much.

[00:55:27.50] spk_0:
Thank you. This is such an invigorating conversation, thank you for the opportunity.

[00:55:47.64] spk_1:
Thanks for saying you’re glad that I asked you were one of the generous, generous guests. I’m glad you asked that I got, I got chills. Thank you Esther next week, overcome your fear of public speaking. If you missed any part of this week’s show,

[00:55:50.02] spk_0:
I beseech

[00:56:00.84] spk_1:
you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o

[00:56:03.44] spk_2:
Our creative producer is Clear. Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark

[00:56:08.57] spk_0:
Silverman is our web

[00:56:09.49] spk_1:
guy and this music

[00:56:13.74] spk_2:
is by scott Stein, mm hmm. Thank you for that information, Scotty be with me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for March 15, 2021: Relationships With Funders

My Guest:

Shavonn Richardson: Relationships With Funders
There’s too much transactionalism and not enough relationship building between nonprofits and their institutional funders. Are you a transactionalist? Do you want to walk toward the light of relationship fundraising with foundations and corporations? Shavonn Richardson can show you the path. She’s CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting.

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:00:13.94] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big

[00:01:56.24] spk_1:
non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of African trypanosomiasis if you bit me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Relationships with Funders. There’s too Much Transactional is, um, and not enough relationship building between nonprofits and their institutional funders. Are you a transactional ist? Do you want to walk toward the light of relationship fundraising with foundations and corporations? She, even Richardson, can help you. She’s CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting, tony State, too. Podcast pleasantries, reduction. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. I’m very pleased to welcome shaven Richardson to the show. She is founder and CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting. She worked as a program manager for a corporate funder, deploying over a million dollars in grants and sponsorships to Atlanta nonprofits. Now she gets grants for her clients and has successfully leveraged over $25 million in funding. She’s a Forbes thought leader and serves on the board of directors for the Grant Professionals Association. She’s at Shavon Richardson and her company is at Think and Inc grants dot com. Welcome to nonprofit radio Shabaan.

[00:01:57.78] spk_0:
Thank you, Tony. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:02.04] spk_1:
Absolutely. It’s a pleasure. Do you know the shaven Richardson who stole your name from Twitter before you before? I

[00:02:08.81] spk_0:
wish I could hunt her down and get her her Twitter tag. Yeah, that would be more convenient for sure. You

[00:02:17.04] spk_1:
haven’t. You have not threatened

[00:02:18.09] spk_0:
her? Not yet. Not yet. But if you find her, let me know.

[00:02:21.14] spk_1:
Okay, well, we know how to find her on Twitter. She’s Ron Rich. Uh, we don’t like her Shiban Richeson

[00:02:28.70] spk_0:
on

[00:02:36.64] spk_1:
Twitter. So you have the, uh, background of being a program manager. You are concerned that and I obviously you saw this as a program manager that folks are are to transactional, right? They submit these blind applications they don’t have relationships with with program managers like you. You wanna like you used to be. You want to turn that around?

[00:03:20.44] spk_0:
Yes. Yes, yes. I was a program manager at Bank of America Foundation. Oversaw a lot of the, um, grants that came in and sponsorships that would come in. Reviewed applications, build relationships with non profits. And I think my biggest pet peeve was, um, someone committee what we call a cold application without any outreach to our office or any connection or we knew anything about.

[00:03:25.44] spk_1:
So even with Bank of America, we can we can have we can. We can establish a relationship with a person at Bank of America

[00:03:32.19] spk_0:
Foundation that it is doable.

[00:03:36.64] spk_1:
Okay, all right. And I presume the folks with the relationships have a better shot of getting funded, right?

[00:04:11.94] spk_0:
Why are they overall, just in general? We’re talking about any funder, right, whether it’s a corporate funder or a family foundation or any sort of private foundation, the more they know about you and more about your nonprofit organization and more about the really valuable work that you’re doing. Um, they’re more. They’re in a position to make a determination whether they want to invest in support, that the work you do. So it’s all a part of getting to know you. You’re getting to know them and making sure that there’s an appropriate match,

[00:04:40.84] spk_1:
because the program manager is basically an advocate for your grant application, right? If they believe in it, then they have to bring it up. Obviously, it’s certainly a Bank of America, you know, to bring things up to folks, folks above to to get approved funding. So, like, aren’t you? Isn’t the program manager basically the advocate for the grants that that, uh, he or she believes in?

[00:05:25.34] spk_0:
Yeah, well, you know, they can be an advocate, right? It just really depends, because every fund is different, right? So, you know, some funders will have the program managers make the decision as a group as to who gets funding. Sometimes the program managers are in a position to kind of gather all the applicants, maybe writing a summary, uh, what the program is, and then maybe boarding it to a board of directors or a committee or a group of non profit leaders that are responsible for actually making the decision. But either way, a program manager is involved in the process. Um, and the more they know about you, the more that you know, there might be some opportunities for them to be an advocate if it’s appropriate.

[00:05:41.74] spk_1:
Okay, So if we’re thinking about, uh, let’s start with the corporate since you were on the corporate side and then we’ll talk. We’ll talk about foundations to, um, But let’s start with the corporate side. How do you? Well, I guess it starts with research. You’ve got to make sure you’re talking to a corporation that funds the type of work that you do in the area where you are, right. So it starts with good research,

[00:06:58.04] spk_0:
especially research, you know, especially large funders, large corporate funders to get a lot of emails and calls from everyone right about different things. But if you just start with going to their website and learning more about, they’re giving priorities. Every corporate funder has given priorities or their focus areas on their website. You want to make sure that the work that you’re doing is in line with one of those focus areas so that you’re not reaching out to a funny to say, Hey, do you support this really cool thing that I’m doing when it’s already very clear on their website that they do or they don’t all the times they’ll have, like a little survey of yes or no questions to see if you’ll be eligible to apply, so that’s that’s the first step. The next step would be kind of, um, the outreach, right? Some will say, Hey, we don’t have the capacity entertained phone calls. If you want to engage with us, please send in a l O I, which in our industry is considered a letter of intent or a lot of interest. So that’s just a quick summary of your program for them to get to know you. Others have just a general inbox, um, email that you’ll find on their website. If you have questions, you know, here is a way to contact us. So those are kind of like the first ways to start connecting with a potential corporate funder and build a relationship.

[00:07:11.57] spk_1:
If there one that’s willing to take calls, you, uh, you pick up the phone and what do you say?

[00:07:18.84] spk_0:
Well, I say they were at least I can say, at least for our clients that it’s a very strategic conversation we actually plan. Yeah, just don’t pick up the phone calls. They take calls school. I mean,

[00:07:33.94] spk_1:
let me chat them up about my work. Okay, So what do you think What are you planning before you before you do pick up the phone?

[00:09:00.44] spk_0:
Yeah. So if everybody gets on the phone, it’s always good to have at least one or two people that you’ve connected with, um, as far as their contact information. Right? Because folks leave, folks come and go all the time. So the one person that you’ve connected with, if they leave, then you’re you’re kind of out of luck. So it’s good to have, you know, to contact, right? Um, if you reach out via telephone to arrange some time on someone’s calendar or via email, I would always say limited to 15 minutes, right? They’re busy people. And in that 15 minutes, you have a clear understanding of what you’re talking about. Oftentimes with our clients, these unscripted conversations that we plan, we’re not scripted word for word. But we do have a strategy as far as what we want our clients to share during those conversations and really stick to it. Um, in the end, leave a few minutes for any questions. Um, always end with a like a follow up like, Hey, you know, how can we stay connected? Is it okay if I, you know, seeing you a letter from a person we just recently helped, or how can we stay connected and and And that’s a start, right? And to keep it a warm connection, right? Figure out ways to keep them engaged, to always keep my breast of the work that you’re doing. And I think the key point is to do this regardless. If there is a pending grant deadline, do this when there’s no grant deadline, right?

[00:09:28.64] spk_1:
I was gonna ask about that. Okay, So there’s no, there’s no even grant deadline yet. You’re just opening the channel before so that you’ve you’ve made the point in a couple of your blog posts or videos that, you know, don’t wait until two weeks before a deadline. You try to open a conversation, you’ve you set yourself up like maybe not definitely for failure, but you’ve You’ve made it a lot harder on everybody. So So this is before there isn’t even a day before There’s even a deadline posted.

[00:09:48.24] spk_0:
Exactly. And you know, sometimes if you do this work without a deadline, sometimes when a grant does come down the pipeline, don’t reach out to you and they’ll say, Hey, you know, we’ve been talking for the last six months. I think this is a good opportunity for you. Check it out and they’ll just forge you an opportunity. And that’s that’s even better, right? Because that means that your top of mind for them,

[00:11:03.44] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications. You know, the relationships that turn to has. These are examples. Examples. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CBS Market Watch, The Chronicle of Philanthropy. Those are the biggest. They have others, and they’ll make others others where you belong, where they can help place you so that when there’s a news hook that you belong in, they know who to call. They’ve got the relationships relationships. That’s how you get yourself positioned in the media that you want when you want it there at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to relationships with funders. You see the symmetry here you see, you see how it’s all connected with the relationship theme transcending. It’s resplendent with relationships. Unbelievable. So in that phone call or in these series of calls, as you’re keeping in touch with them, you’re trying to show them how your work aligns with their funding priorities. I mean, especially in that first. Like you said, a 15 minute phone call. You’re trying to hook them into what you do and how it overlaps with what they fund, right?

[00:11:19.94] spk_0:
Exactly. And I think when people go wrong is that they just they’re just so excited just to share all the work that they’re doing and they make it about them. But you know, these social, corporate friends, this is not altruistic. Giving is like it’s a reason why they’re investing in you is because you’re aligning with what they need to do. So always to keep the funder in mind and making sure that you are aligning to what they are looking for.

[00:11:46.94] spk_1:
And then over time, as you’re keeping in touch, is it okay to email them when you maybe have a big success? Or I don’t know, uh, email them announcements. Maybe about a couple of new board members. I mean, is that kind of stuff appropriate? Is that is that a good way to be keeping in touch with them?

[00:12:00.54] spk_0:
Exactly. Right. Exactly right. Press releases, uh, update new things that are happening. That’s always good to kind of keep them in loop. I discourage people from including them on your mass newsletter distribution list. Um, that’s a big no, no, definitely any personalized communication. If you want to extract information from your newsletter, that’s fine. But let it be personal. Let it be from the executive director. Uh, I know I personally have small when I’ve received stuff in the mail. Like I’ve received pictures of those that we’ve helped with a little handwritten letter in crayon. Hi. Thank you so much for the grant. That’s a tear jerker. And a lot of times I would put them up in my office. I was just going to say

[00:12:43.05] spk_1:
that. I bet you put them up

[00:12:44.01] spk_0:
in your office. I put my office

[00:12:45.78] spk_1:
crayon letters from, like, a seven or eight year old.

[00:12:50.24] spk_0:
Yeah, put them up in my office and, you know, there you go There on my mind. 3 65. So, um, getting something in the mail, you know who gets stuff in the mail anymore, right? So it would stand out. I’d say, Wow, it’s a package on my desk. What is that? And it really made a difference. So anyway, that you can engage them, whether mailing something or be email not too often, but when you really feel like there’s something significant that you’d like to share,

[00:13:50.94] spk_1:
so it’s not really that uncommon. I mean, it’s not really that different than keeping in touch with individual donors, you know? All right, So you’re saying you know, you wouldn’t include them on your in your e newsletter mail list? Okay, that’s that’s an exception. But you know, your major donors, like you’re inside individual donors, you keep in touch with them. You build relationships with them for when the time comes that you are going to be asking them. I mean, these are all strategic relationships. They’re not like you said. They’re not altruistic. Uh, you know, there’s a purpose behind these, but it sounds parallel to individual relationship building.

[00:13:54.74] spk_0:
It is okay. It is very parallel, and it’s so odd. I know I know a lot of fun reasons that are like, really good at engaging with individual donors, and I tell them like that that’s just not my jam. And then I think about it like, but there’s really a lot of like you could really apply to say, strategy. So that doesn’t mean that, uh, you know, it’s it’s necessarily a difficult thing. It’s just you just have to do it right? Like how it with a strategy and apply it

[00:15:11.54] spk_1:
because even Bank of America is made of people. Yeah, right. I mean, you’re you’re a person. You have feelings you like to be kept in touch with. You know, you like to get warm, soft, fuzzy, You know, things in the mail, like you’re saying so. You know, even Bank of America is made of people, so connect, connect on a personal level. All right. All right. So then let’s just follow that that relationship through a little bit. So now let’s suppose there is a grant application deadline Now it’s I don’t know how. How far in advance do we find out about these things? Like, three months or six months? Random varies. Okay. All right. So you find out now there’s an application. Three months, three months. You’ve got three months, but you’ve got a relationship with the with the company. Um, what do you do? You pick up the phone and say, Well, you know, can I apply or do you You just apply or you can leverage. How do you leverage your relationship?

[00:15:14.20] spk_0:
You pick up the phone, you send an email. Hi, Sally. We just saw that you guys have in our p available or a great opportunity available. And it’s due in June. Whatever. Whatever. We’re definitely interested in applying. This is the program that we’re looking for funding for. What do you think? Do you think this would be a good fit? Thank you so much for your time. I know your time is super, super precious, and you’re super busy. But thank you for your time. And any insight that you can provide will be very helpful.

[00:16:06.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um and then you go ahead. I mean, you got to follow. You gotta follow all the details. You make the point somewhere that if it says font size 12 and you do font size 11.5, you’re putting yourself at risk. Exactly. Okay. And then your work, of course, is preparing. You know, you gotta get budgets and referrals, and you gotta You gotta follow the follow all the guidelines.

[00:16:28.04] spk_0:
Yeah, well, a lot of our work, we’re unique at thinking and great consulting because we cover all aspects of great seeking from beginning to end. Uh, we do the nonprofit consulting to strengthen your organization, so you submit a strong proposal. We do, the research will go and find a good opportunities Will do the actual writing what you’re referring to. And we actually do the evaluation support. So we’ll evaluate the program. Um, at the end of the program, a lot of nonprofit leaders have to form four different relationships just to get all of that done. Um, but our team actually has people on staff to do all of those things, So we make it really easy for nonprofit leaders.

[00:16:52.04] spk_1:
We were talking about grants, grant application, But how do how does it vary if it’s if it’s sponsorship,

[00:18:04.34] spk_0:
uh, sponsorships? It’s And it’s weird because it’s changing with sponsorships. Before, It used to be just a marketing spin, right? It was awareness, and I’m talking about corporate funders. It was just bringing awareness to a brand, right, Um and it was tied to kind of like, you know how many people are going to see us and you know, the quality of the target market that we’re engaging and all that and I find that, like, sponsorships are getting more like grants now, like they want impact. They want, um, outcomes and objectives and all of that. So they’re kind of like a hybrid, so to say. But grants are definitely just, um, very structured. Just the classic K. You know, what is your mission? What is your program? What is your budget? What you’re hoping to achieve? How are you going to measure success? The application for a sponsorship, I would say, would most likely and again these lines are blurring, not be as intensive, although they do vary by thunder. Um, but, um, yeah, so I would say that they, for the most part not as intensive. But I find them getting a little more intense as far as asking very similar related questions.

[00:18:17.34] spk_1:
Are you seeing a lot of companies that want employee engagement as a part of sponsorship agreements?

[00:19:12.94] spk_0:
Absolutely. So the employee engagement pieces key and what that looks like is having employees opportunities for employees to come out and volunteer with a non profit organization. Or sometimes it’s the exact opposite. There’s some corporate funders that won’t even give to your nonprofit if it isn’t recommended by an employee or former employee is not, you know, um, active on the board or volunteering, or that they will see kind of employee recommendations before they give or give a preference. Or sometimes they’ll even be a question. They’re like, Do you have some of our employees that are engaging with your nonprofit like, What is their role? And a lot of those questions are optional, but some, um, won’t even give unless it’s like referred to employees. So employing instrument is key. And I think a lot of nonprofits overlooked at because that is something that corporate funders value. But sometimes nonprofits don’t always have the capacity to engage

[00:19:46.34] spk_1:
right, You know, if it’s a sizable company, I mean, they want maybe hundreds of employees engaging in a volunteer capacity or like I’ve heard of, you know, maybe stuffing backpacks or, uh, if it’s, uh, it’s a soup kitchen or something, you know, then then there’s ability for cooking and serving and an administrative work as well. But it could be like you’re saying. I mean, it could be a capacity thing like you just you may not have the capacity to manage the number of employees that they want to have volunteering.

[00:19:56.84] spk_0:
Exactly, because, I mean, you need a volunteer manager. You need to you know, it has to be a good experience for the corporate sponsor.

[00:20:28.84] spk_1:
All right, So you you got to manage capacity to think about what’s appropriate. But on the other hand, you know, it could be a small It might be a small local company where, you know, maybe they just have, like, 20 employees, and they want to send half of them, you know, once a month to spend five hours or something. So maybe you can Maybe you can accommodate 10 employees for five hours twice a month. Okay. Think about. All right. Um, what do you What do you say you mentioned the l. A y. The letter of inquiry or interest? What do you What are you saying in an l O I

[00:21:37.64] spk_0:
so L o I, um some some funders will give specific instructions on how to respond. It’s almost like a mini grant, right? Um, others are just kind of open ended. Like, hey, just send us an l o I. And so for the open ended alloys, usually it’s just a brief summary of your organization when I say brief, I mean brief. It is not. A whole historical layout of your organization is very brief just to give them some contacts for you to start talking about your actual program. So once you give a brief overview of your organization, give a brief overview of the project very succinctly and talk about how your project can potentially in line with a lot of the great work that, um, the funder is doing. Depending on who the front er is. You know, you may want to end it with, you know something to to make you stand out or really aligned with what the fund is looking for. But in essence, that is what l. Y looks like.

[00:23:39.04] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s Take two podcast pleasantries. I’m enjoying sending the podcast pleasantries, which at times have been podcast pleasantries. But they’re not today. These are the ones that have survived the pleasantries because, you know, it makes me nostalgic for the studio days when there were live listener love, affiliate affections and podcast pleasantries. Yes, the Studio days with Sam the podcast pleasantries are the only ones that survived. Uh, the other audiences, uh, Well, I cast off. It’s not that they not that they departed. I cast them off the podcast pleasantries. And I mean the affiliate affections and the live listener love in that order. So I’m I took the initiative. And what remains is our biggest audience. The podcast audience. You? Yes. You listening right this minute. I’m sending pleasantries to you. I’m grateful you’re a listener. How much plainer can I make it? And I don’t know. Yeah, I’m enjoying sending these podcasts pleasantries. They may end. I’m not sure. I’m not sure when the podcast pleasantries will end. Let’s just Let’s just go with it. See how it feels. Weak, Too weak. I think that’s the the best strategy not to make any commitments, long term or otherwise. Pleasantries to you, our podcast, listeners. Thanks for being with me. That is. Tony, take two. We’ve got Boo Koo, but loads more time for relationships with funders with shaven Richardson. Let’s go back to where you You are submitted your grant application. Now you’re waiting. Mhm. Mm. Can you leverage your relationship that you that you have with the with the funders to ask? How was it received? How does it. Look, What am I? What are our chances Look like, What can you do after you’ve submitted the application? Hopefully by the deadline. If you didn’t make it by the deadline, you’re

[00:24:31.74] spk_0:
out, right? Yeah, exactly. They hold fast to the deadline. I would say. I mean, this is very a really difficult question to answer, because while an application is being reviewed, you don’t want the appearance that you’re trying to sway a prog program. Managers mind or influence it while it’s pending. So oftentimes, um, if you check in, they won’t respond because they’ll say we’ll get back to you after X y z deadline. And that’s it. So for some, it’s it’s sitting. Wait, Um, if you’re fortunate to have some type of in and get some insight, then that that that’s just pure fortune because you definitely want to have the appearance that you’re trying to influence or get a ahead while they’re in the process of reviewing applications.

[00:24:45.92] spk_1:
Okay, so the decision is supposed to be made based strictly on the application

[00:25:14.14] spk_0:
at that point. Yeah, because, you know, it’s it’s a competitive thing, right? So, you know, you can ask all the questions you want prior to submitting, right? Build all the relationships you want. Um, once that deadline hits, they have all the applications in, um, they’re in the process of reviewing the applications, so you almost have to allow that to go. But if you do find someone that says, Hey, I was in the room and it gave great feedback or with the face to it, like that’s just that’s just a blessing, because that that definitely doesn’t happen.

[00:25:45.74] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. So don’t don’t don’t overreach like then you’re then you’re taking advantage of the relationship, and that’s obviously a negative. Okay, um but it sounds like you would encourage folks to to definitely be in touch during the application process while you’re if you’re not sure about what, How to answer a question or, you know, as you’re preparing the application, it’s it’s fine to be in touch,

[00:26:20.74] spk_0:
of course, and I would even take it a step further. I would even say, Don’t submit an application if you have not had some type of outreach or connection with someone in the office. I mean, really like like we call it submitting a cold app, just submitting it blind you’ve never had a conversation with anyone in the office, there’s no connection. The most likely look at you and they say, Well, who is this person? All right, Well, maybe we want to prove it now because we need to get to know them better. Maybe they will reapply, and we’ll consider it then. So I would definitely say before you even think about submitting an application to have some type of connection, some type of outreach with the thunder. First,

[00:26:38.04] spk_1:
let’s switch to the the private foundation side. Is it very different relationship

[00:27:59.94] spk_0:
wise? I think it’s the same relationship wise. I think access and capacity is different. Uh, there’s some foundations that have, um, our all volunteer led. They don’t have paid staff, right, So you may not be able to get someone on the phone to talk to. They may have board meetings once a quarter, Um, and you just have to submit and wait till they meet, right? And so the capacity is limited, But then you have other foundations that are very, very friendly and very open to talking to people and encourage the outreach and have the time and the resources available so It depends on capacity. I know that covid and working from home change things a little bit as far as capacity. Uh, you know, before we might have been able to get, um, folks on the phone when they were in the office. But now that their home, it’s like, um, they have a bigger workload now because of shifts in, you know, staffing and different things that have changed. So getting someone on the phone might be harder, because now they have so many applications to manage, right? Because every nonprofit needs money, especially now in the middle of a pandemic. So, you know, maybe when they were in the office, people endemic, they might have had some time to have a conversation with you. But now that they’re working from home, they might be down a staff member. They have more applications. Their capacity may not be the same.

[00:28:20.04] spk_1:
All right, so yeah, I guess you would start with the website to try to figure out whether they accept calls, right? And inquiries by phone, like you were saying on the corporate side. But after that, just I mean, if if the website doesn’t really say, just reach out and try and see what see what happens.

[00:29:23.14] spk_0:
Yeah, and I will also say not to to make it more complicated. There’s some foundations out there that don’t have websites. No way to connect with them. Um, you might get a phone number, right? Like there’s foundations that don’t have websites. And so that’s why sometimes beyond just your normal a Google search. Um, sometimes I will say, you know, go to a great writing firm or nonprofit consulting firm. And if they’re willing to do some research for you, um, go that route because I know we have, you know, just relationships with funders and people who worked with that don’t have websites. But we have, you know, the connection there and were able to kind of, like, you know, make an introduction or do something, and we have our ways of finding out who sits on the board and you know how to make those connections. And so, you know, try to do as much as you can on your own. But I would always say, like if you need help, like, don’t be afraid to kind of reach out for help, especially if it’s one time support, right to get of insight on opportunities are available out there and the relationships that you need to build.

[00:29:54.74] spk_1:
Okay, Yeah. A foundation that doesn’t have a website. Sounds pretty closed. I mean, they’re not even They’re not even telling publicly what their funding priorities are. So you have to drill down and do research. What about the, um Well, it used to be the foundation center. Now, is it candid the the, uh, the service that they have, which is a subscription service for grants for foundation research? Yeah, F c. I forget what it used to be called FC Something

[00:29:58.78] spk_0:
etcetera online

[00:30:08.24] spk_1:
foundation center online is that? I mean, I know, I know listeners have to subscribe to it, but is that a valuable, um, research tool?

[00:30:15.94] spk_0:
Absolutely. A lot of those those foundations. Um, some are have websites, some don’t. Right. Um and so using as a resource, you can always pull up the funders they linked to nine nineties. So you’ll see an address and a phone number and a list of board directors. And there’s a lot of insightful information, so that’s definitely a good resource.

[00:30:42.34] spk_1:
What about on the federal funder side talking about a federal agency. What’s the relationship building like potential there?

[00:30:48.34] spk_0:
Yes, that’s a good question. So it’s kind of different, right? It’s not as, um personal as far as sending emails. Hey, this is what we’re doing. It’s more informational. And so every foe. And that’s the opportunity announcements for federal grants, mainly. Yeah, we

[00:31:08.73] spk_1:
have. Sorry. What the heck is a PFOA

[00:32:25.64] spk_0:
federal opportunity announcement? You’ll hear it reference that you’ll also hear RFP but this RFP saying for I don’t know. Sorry, guys. Yes. Okay, so, um, so with that, you will always see a list of everything you need for the grant. What to include? How to submit. Um, and usually will have multiple documents sometimes. Um, if you go to their website, you’ll see frequently asked questions. Always attend. The webinar always have the opportunity to ask questions during the webinar if you didn’t attend a lot of times to have replaced. So it’s good to attend that first. And I say this because they always have a contact of a person to reach out to. If you have questions, you want to be able to reach out to that person. If you have questions but asking questions in a way that you’re kind of sharing more information about what you all are doing and building a relationship that way, like having a person that you can go to to ask questions. The reason why I heavily recommend reading the RFE in its entirety and listening to the Webinar because you do not want to ask questions that have already been answered. I don’t like that they don’t like that. You’re not demonstrating that you’re listening or paying attention or doing anything right. So having that person that you can ask questions is away. I mean, I don’t want to use the relationship, but it’s a way that so that they know that you’re serious, right?

[00:32:45.14] spk_1:
It’s a more professional. It’s more. I mean, these are all professional relationship, but this one’s a little more arms length.

[00:32:46.94] spk_0:
Yeah, more arms lane.

[00:32:48.64] spk_1:
Okay.

[00:32:49.23] spk_0:
Yeah, no sending. You know, emails of the latest updates. Like, you know, none of that. Nothing in the mail like it’s a professional relationship for sure.

[00:33:26.14] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um let’s see what happens when, uh, when you get turned down? Suppose you have the Suppose you have the relationship. I don’t care whether it’s corporate or private or federal, well, federal. You have some kind of relationship, but whatever you get turned down, But you do know somebody at the at the thunder you’re you call sobbing, you’re not sobbing, but you’re disappointed. You know what? What do you What do you recommend when you get the rejection?

[00:34:15.04] spk_0:
Yeah, well, you know being rejected is never easy. It’s often disappointing. I say that that that’s an opportunity to position yourself for your next wind, right? Um, I always ask for feedback on the application and some things that we could do better to strengthen application next time. I think that’s very invaluable to get that sort of insight and be able to resubmit. But taking consideration, the insight that was shared and also just, um, keep on applying for other grants. And I’m going to speak to the emotional piece because I think sometimes it discourages nonprofit leaders to a point where they lose their steam right, and they don’t want to keep applying. But I will say rejections do happen. Um, keep applying to the next great opportunity, see it as a learning lesson and see it’s an opportunity for the funding to get to know you better, and for you to get to know the funder better and just be more aligned with what they’re looking for.

[00:34:39.34] spk_1:
Okay, so it’s it’s good to reach out and get the feedback.

[00:35:52.54] spk_0:
I’m not. And with federal grants, I’m just going to add this. Um oftentimes, reviewer, um, well, provide comments on the proposal and know that you can always ask for those comments. Okay. And that’s feedback as well. So that’s how you get feedback for a federal grant for foundation grant. It’s Hello. We received the decline letter. Would love to get any feedback that you can provide to improve our chances for applying in the future or to be better line now. You may not always get a response because, especially with corporate funders, um, you know, they don’t ever want to put it out there like they’re giving one non profit and advantage over another. So sometimes they may just say if they do reply, they’ll say, Um, yeah, you know, you didn’t make it. You know, here’s the link if you want to apply it in the future, and so if you don’t get a response, don’t be surprised, but definitely try to get some insight. Okay?

[00:35:53.54] spk_1:
And you might have that relationship. Is it okay to pick up the phone to the person that you have the relationship with and ask them? That’s not overreaching it?

[00:36:05.03] spk_0:
Not at that point. It’s already been decisioned. Okay, Okay.

[00:36:08.33] spk_1:
What do you want to spend a little time talking about? I’ve been asking all the questions. What? What do you think? Relationship building wise. Haven’t we talked about that? You want listeners to know?

[00:37:10.43] spk_0:
I just want to emphasize the importance of doing. And I know that nonprofit leaders, executive directors, those that sits on sit on boards your time is stretched and we understand that, and we know it and there’s so many competing priorities. But I do recommend for nonprofit organizations to have a relationship building strategy. The top 20% of the folks on your list that you want to reach out to this year and focus on that 20% have a strategy in place. And it’s not only just calling and emailing, but also engaging in person when we’re able to write in the community right? That’s another way to build relationships and have those authentic connection. So I know it’s definitely sometimes not easy because there’s so many responsibilities. But it is definitely, definitely important. And it will take you much further than what you think.

[00:37:17.83] spk_1:
You practice yoga, right? Do does your Does your yoga practice inform your work? Is that impact your your work?

[00:37:48.73] spk_0:
I will say it keeps me ballots, right? Like I think everyone and I encourage nonprofit leaders and business owners alike to find something that keeps you balance. Because writing France, uh, is sometimes can be really stressful, right? It’s It’s a high pressure, deadline driven industry. Very cerebral. I’m fortunate I’m an introvert. So this this works very well for me, right? I am. I’m in the right profession for sure. Sound

[00:37:57.66] spk_1:
like an introvert?

[00:38:03.42] spk_0:
I don’t. I am. I am an extroverted introvert. That

[00:38:15.82] spk_1:
sounds a little a little oxymoronic. What is an extroverted introvert? You are one. But how do you It depends on the setting. Is that like you? If there’s a microphone in front of you, then you’re an extrovert. But if you’re at a party, you’re an introvert. What? How does that work?

[00:39:06.82] spk_0:
Well, what it is if you’re an introverted person you refuel yourself by doing introverted activities. So if it’s being by yourself or reading and writing, that’s what you reveal yourself. And then when you do extroverted activities, it drains you right. You feel like you have to kind of come back to your reading and writing to refill yourself. Extroverts are the exact opposite. They reveal themselves by interacting with people and talking and began doing things. And then if they’re doing something that’s like, quiet and reading a book, it drains them. So you really have to identify what drains you and what feels you and I know being introvert fuels me, and I do like doing extroverted things. But when I do them, I am completely a exhausted. If I’m speaking somewhere, I have to plan, uh, the next morning to just decompress and do some yoga and some introverted activities to kind of re fuel myself. Before I kind of get back in the mix of things

[00:39:20.82] spk_1:
you ride horses to.

[00:39:22.75] spk_0:
I do

[00:39:24.72] spk_1:
so that’s another. I guess that’s an introverted active right. That’s a solo. I mean, you could be just one of the person or something, but that’s pretty much a solo activity is,

[00:39:43.22] spk_0:
you know, and I look at the things that I do like to do, and they tend to be so activities. It’s just This is very strange, although I I like people. I have a great team, were really well connected. But I do know that I enjoy horseback riding and yoga and doing things like that.

[00:39:47.22] spk_1:
All right, the extroverted introvert. I understand now. It’s what you get, which you derive their energy from exactly. Okay, so now you’re exhausted talking

[00:40:06.41] spk_0:
to me for a No, I’m good. I think this was This was good. This is a nice balance for me. I think. You know, if I was doing a keynote somewhere, I’d be totally exhausted. That’s different. Yeah,

[00:40:09.13] spk_1:
non profit radio is not exhausting. No,

[00:40:11.36] spk_0:
no, it’s good.

[00:41:05.21] spk_1:
Thank you, Stephen. Thanks very much for having us. Sheldon Richardson. She’s at Shavon Richardson, and the company is at Think and Inc grants dot com Next week, Jeanne Takagi returns with Build Your best Better board, Bud. Maybe we’ll leave out the bud. That’s sexist. Keep that. Keep the butt out. It’ll just be build your best Better Board and Jeanne Takagi, always a pleasure to have him look forward to that. That’s your next week’s show. All right, if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows Social Media

[00:41:08.33] spk_3:
is by Susan Chavez

[00:41:09.70] spk_0:
Mark Silverman

[00:41:17.31] spk_3:
is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty, be with me next week for nonprofit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go

[00:41:38.31] spk_1:
out and be great. Mm, yeah.

Nonprofit Radio for February 22, 2021: Listen Closely

My Guest:

Emily Taylor: Listen Closely

If you want to know what folks are thinking, interested in and motivated by, you need to listen to your donors, volunteers, advocates, employees. How do you get to the answers to listen to? Emily Taylor talks. We listen. She’s principal of teenyBIG.

Emily has a free paper for you, “5 Questions to Ask Before Spending More Marketing $$.” It’s here.

 

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:01:45.84] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with hereditary angio oedema if you swelled me up with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Listen closely. If you want to know what folks are thinking interested in and motivated by, you need to listen to your donors, volunteers, advocates, employees. How do you get to the answers to listen to Emily Taylor talks. We listen. She’s principle of teeny Big Antonis. Take two a webinar or two were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives Prospect to donor Simplified. It’s my pleasure to welcome Emily Taylor to non profit radio. She is principal of teeny big coaching nonprofits to meaningful e engage their audiences through human centered design. Her prior experience is in nonprofit management and industrial design. The company is that teeny big dot com and you’ll find Emily on LinkedIn prominently. Emily Taylor. Welcome to the show.

[00:01:47.64] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Happy to be here.

[00:01:49.53] spk_1:
I’m glad. Let me ask you a question and I’ll bet nobody’s ever asked you. Did I pronounce your name correctly?

[00:01:54.24] spk_0:
Yes, yes, I’ve definitely lucked out with the easily pronounceable name.

[00:01:58.94] spk_1:
Excellent with martignetti. You know, uh, nobody ever asks, and they always mispronounced, but I’m always careful. But of course I

[00:02:05.24] spk_0:
Yeah, I’m married into a more common name. So it made things easy for me. Yeah,

[00:02:20.84] spk_1:
it’s easier to spell. Easier to say now. Industrial design is always interesting to me that I always think of like commercial design, like Cheerios boxes. But But that’s not That’s not strict. That’s not industrial design, really, is it?

[00:02:44.44] spk_0:
It actually is. It’s not the greatest name for a career path, but but it’s designing of products, you know. It’s the people who decide. You know what your cereal box might look like, but also your phone and your car on and, uh, you know, pens and pencils, just everything.

[00:02:46.46] spk_1:
Everything around us has design features to it. And of course, someone else was

[00:03:00.14] spk_0:
inside. You know, someone who decides how they make it, and that’s the engineer. But industrial designer really decides what it looks like what it communicates and how people connect with

[00:03:02.83] spk_1:
it. Okay, well, that I mean, there’s different principles around bookshelves than around iPhones. IPhones A little more complicated, little more complex. What? What did you industrially design?

[00:03:39.14] spk_0:
Most of my career was spent in packaging. So packaging really? And you know it Tze telling you what’s inside of something and you know why you want to pick it up and buy it on DSO Really? I like to think of packaging is an analogy for a lot of stuff. You know how we present ourselves to people have nonprofits present themselves to each other. It’s all a package that someone could gets a sense of before you dive in. Further,

[00:03:43.84] spk_1:
My favorite package packaging comes from Apple computers.

[00:03:48.05] spk_0:
I thought you were going to say that

[00:04:07.74] spk_1:
they’re so elegantly, uh, like the phone. You bet. It’s like on a pillow. I mean, it’s a piece of some material, which is not exactly cardboard, but it looks to me like it’s on a pillow and it’s wrapped in a gentle little plastic sheath. And the the power cable is is perfectly coiled, with a little little tie holding it. I mean, it’s incredible.

[00:04:38.44] spk_0:
Yeah, it is what we call the packaging experience on. And that’s really you know, if you imagine opening that up and having all the pieces jumbled out, you’d be really confused of what to do. And so, um, you know what I’ve been trained to do is think of things as a process. And how do you present information in a staged way So that someone gets it? Someone’s excited about it. Yeah, they can, you know, enjoy the joy. What’s inside?

[00:05:01.94] spk_1:
Okay, excellent. And you’re you’re you’re making a segue. Thio listening. We’ll get there, we’ll get there. Um, but yeah, you You wanna, you know that it’s your first impression. It’s the way the box looks before you even open it before you see just seeing it on a shelf, whatever it is. But then but then you I mean, you’re doing packaging, so there’s also security like you gotta hold the thing together. You don’t want it shaking in the box or whatever it was that you were packaging.

[00:05:16.34] spk_0:
Yeah, you don’t want people stealing it. You don’t want to toe fallout, get too hot while it’s shipping, there’s there’s a lot of different elements thio crunch into that beautiful package. Okay, cool.

[00:05:22.80] spk_1:
And then you move Thio Nonprofits?

[00:05:46.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So I was able to make a lateral shift where I moved, um, took my industrial design knowledge and ran a nonprofit called Design House where we worked in revitalizing local manufacturing, using design, and so we would run workshops on dhe. That was really my first forefront until, like, living in a non profit space versus just volunteering.

[00:05:58.74] spk_1:
Okay. And where’s the interesting listening and engaging with audiences on on that kind of level? Where did that come from? How did you get interested in listening?

[00:06:02.42] spk_0:
You know, I

[00:06:03.81] spk_1:
have developed interest in listening, right? I

[00:06:06.04] spk_0:
mean,

[00:06:07.14] spk_1:
what little But let’s problem where six minutes in. Let’s look what?

[00:07:16.94] spk_0:
Let’s stop listening. Um, well, I I grew up is a very kind of shy and awkward child, and and so I found, but I was really interested in people. And so I found that listening to what other people were saying and figuring out how to connect what I wanted to say and due to that really helped me. Um, you know, figure out how I could connect with people. I almost had you know, analyze it versus it, coming naturally, and so that that has allowed me to really listen in a way that I think not everybody does is I’m really looking for the words people are saying and asking them why they think that way s so that I can understand the context of where they’re coming from. And you know, whether it’s a cultural difference or or just, you know, a difference in in personality. It allows me to like bridge that gap and see where people are coming from so that I can then communicate what I want to to them.

[00:07:19.04] spk_1:
Interesting. All right. It’s very It’s very personal for you, too.

[00:07:41.64] spk_0:
Yeah, yeah, it’s It took me a while to really, like, make that connection back to That’s where it came from. Um, but it’s fun. I always love just, you know, connecting with people well, in the past, in cabs. Or, you know, at the train station you just start up a conversation and and here where people are coming from, because it’s always a totally different place,

[00:07:49.84] spk_1:
we’ll be in cabs again. We’ll be in. Captain, it’s coming. It’s coming. Where you coming from, where you taking. Used to take cabs and trains. Where are you?

[00:07:59.54] spk_0:
I’m in Chicago. So we’re about 2 ft of snow in. Yeah, Okay,

[00:08:13.74] spk_1:
so let’s Tze talk about listening. So we were kind of already kind of touched about it, but, you know, like, why it’s important. But, you know, we’re talking about user research. Why should we? Why should we spend time on this?

[00:08:49.64] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s it’s really important. Tons of for profit companies are doing this, you know, everything that comes out of Starbucks And we mentioned cabs with uber like they’re constantly listening to people and getting ideas in front of people and and hearing the reactions to them. And people are just getting used to having these very customized experiences. And it it connects to nonprofits to people have, once you have those expectations, you have those with everything you do. So

[00:08:50.53] spk_1:
s So how are companies doing this give give a couple of examples?

[00:09:30.24] spk_0:
Um, they’re doing focus groups. They’re they’re interviewing people. They’re putting out surveys. They’re also running, testing, you know, they’re getting prototypes out in front of people. Um, they’re having, you know, influencers work with them to design products. It’s all things that concerned a little overwhelming and expensive on DSO. That’s where I think, trying to bring those the most important elements of those two non profit. So it’s not not a huge cost barrier on, you know, and finding ways to listen in the way you can.

[00:09:32.67] spk_1:
Okay, But I interrupted you when you were describing why this is important.

[00:10:52.84] spk_0:
Oh, yeah, well, you know, it’s it’s important because people are are used to having. Like I said, having these, um, being more targeted and not just following whatever a leader says eso it’s is part of human to human centered design. This is part of the experience of being let’s top down, um, or bottom up, how can we, rather than having a leader that has a vision and everyone follows it to be thinking about, um, yeah, gathering the pulse of the people that were working with and using that to ladder up to the decision making. It’s not to say this is a you know, everyone needs toe to make a decision for all but toe have that input. And I think it’s really important this year because I cannot remember a year where it is so unpredictable what people are thinking, Um, you know, how comfortable are they going out? When are they going to get vaccinated? You know, what is their? How their perceptions of organizations changed over the last year based on who connected with them and who didn’t and you know, stories. They read that it just seems even mawr important to see where people stand because this is like a There’s no apples to apples Comparison.

[00:11:43.04] spk_1:
It’s time for a break turn to communications. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CBS Market Watch, The Chronicle of Philanthropy You wanna be in papers and outlets like that? Turn two has the relationships to get you on those outlets so that when these places air looking for experts on charitable giving, non profit trends or philanthropy, they call turn to turn two calls you because you’re their client. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Now back to listen closely. So we’re interested in how folks are, uh, interacting with our organization or interested in interacting with it. What what, like what’s motivating them? Those kinds of things.

[00:12:23.34] spk_0:
Yeah, I think motivating And then also you know what will fit into people’s lives like you no longer have the, you know, the consistent after school programs or the favorite, uh, you know, venues someone attended to like I remember. You know, it used to be you couldn’t plan things less than a few weeks out on a Friday Saturday night, and now you know, people are home. And so So how do you kind of get a sense of like where, you know, as a non profit where you could now fit into people’s habits as they bring some of those you know, we’re out of home experiences and to their lives.

[00:12:40.94] spk_1:
So when I was introducing the show, I ticked off listening to donors, volunteers, employees Are there other constituencies that we should be listening to?

[00:12:43.04] spk_0:
Let’s see, You said that donors,

[00:12:45.32] spk_1:
donors, volunteers, employees.

[00:13:04.64] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, I tend to look broadly at, and, um and I call audience, you know, basically people who are following you because a lot of those people could become a donor. They could become a volunteer, and they don’t really see themselves as such. Um, eso

[00:13:06.78] spk_1:
it could include, like your social Social Channel followers,

[00:13:10.58] spk_0:
could it? Yeah.

[00:13:11.85] spk_1:
Okay. Yeah. All right.

[00:13:27.84] spk_0:
Yeah. Um, you know, listening, trying to figure out how do you get them to the next stage? How do you turn them into, you know, one of the other categories? Um and, you know, but there’s really no end to who you could listen, Thio. I think that’s just where I focus is general audience

[00:13:50.24] spk_1:
folks who are benefiting from your programs to if you’re if you’re doing any kind of human service work or it could be customers if you’re a museum or a theater, it could be patrons that way. May not be donors, but maybe patrons to your museum Visitors.

[00:14:02.34] spk_0:
Yeah, and I’m going to make it sound too broad. But the real trick is to figure out who you want to listen to so that you can define it for yourself.

[00:14:11.44] spk_1:
Okay? Okay. But But all these folks, I mean, if they’re if they’re interacting with you in a meaningful way, don’t they? Don’t they deserve a voice in your You’re listening campaign?

[00:14:55.54] spk_0:
Definitely. I think where I’m going with is you know, the people who maybe are following you on social media will have different things to say. You know, if this is a museum, um, I have different things to say that people who are coming in to the museum or people who have donated to the museum for a long time. And so it’s helpful when you’re listening to kind of focus who were listening to so we don’t mix up Well, somebody said this and the other you know, these long term donors think this other thing and and you’re mixing up the messaging when, really, um, you know you need to be separating. People are gonna have a different perspective, depending on how well they know your organization.

[00:15:14.84] spk_1:
Yeah, for sure. And how they interact. So that’s what we’re here to talk about it. So we wanna we wanna avoid this. Yeah, You don’t want All the messages are like all the feedback coming a LH coalesced together and aggregated. I mean, maybe for some purposes, you aggregated. But you want to know what your distinct audiences are are saying back to you?

[00:15:18.25] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s about targeting and segmenting eso that. Yeah, when you listen, it doesn’t get confusing.

[00:15:31.74] spk_1:
Yeah, okay, so let’s let’s let’s talk about how to do this for for different audiences. How do you go about thes listening campaigns? I’m calling them listening campaigns. Is that

[00:15:35.37] spk_0:
okay?

[00:15:36.29] spk_1:
Can you put your imprimatur on that? Is that all right?

[00:15:38.87] spk_0:
No, I love it.

[00:15:44.34] spk_1:
Listening campaigns. Okay, so if you have different listening campaigns for different audiences, let’s talk about some method methods.

[00:16:43.44] spk_0:
Sure, Sure. And, you know, I always wish there was one that could really kind of all encompass get the right information. But there’s different tactics that kind of our good and bad in various ways. Um, but the one I love the most is to just straight up interview people just talk to them and this, you know, that could be done. You know, obviously, if you have very passionate followers that you can have conversations with them at any time and really talk to them about you know why they’re part of your organization. But you can also just go on toe Facebook or Twitter and just say, Hey, you know someone who comments, would you have 15 minutes to chat with me and get them on the phone? Just do that. You know, a couple people a week, and all of a sudden you’re starting to get a broader sense of what people who aren’t connected to your organization are just lightly connected. Think about you.

[00:17:19.74] spk_1:
Yeah. Excellent. Okay, So I like I like that you say, You know, just comment back to somebody on Facebook. I see you know your comment a lot. Would you like to spend 15 minutes talking to me talking to us about our organ? That you you seem to be very interested in? Um, you know, non profit radio is action steps. So, like, what can we dio eso? Um how about I mean, could you just approach? I guess you could just approach volunteers the same way or, you know, you’re you’re devoting 10 hours a week to our work or whatever it is 10 hours a month. Could you could you sit with us for a phone call and talk about the organ?

[00:18:18.14] spk_0:
Any any interaction is ah, opportunity. I mean, you could even if you have a cocktail hour, just go around and ask the same question Teoh a few different people and and take note of what they say it Z. It’s more of a qualitative kind of feedback. But you get some really great answers. Although I would take a step back and just say it’s good to know what you want to learn. I actually had a a little hosted a conversation earlier this morning about listening to your audience, and it was interesting. I asked the group if you could just reach into your audiences brain and find out anything, you know, what would you want to know? And the question really stumped people. Mhm. Uh huh. And so, you know, it made me realize that, like, as you listen, you also need to know what what you’re looking for.

[00:18:19.37] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s like your goal setting for your listening campaign. Every campaign has to have a goal. This is not a volunteer campaign or fundraising campaign. This is listening campaign. So what would you like to learn?

[00:18:39.74] spk_0:
Yeah, you know, it’s so obvious. But sometimes when we just talked to people were used to having a conversation, not, uh, really digging for information.

[00:18:56.24] spk_1:
So when you’re at that cocktail party, if you’re if you wanna engage folks in your listening campaign surreptitiously, you’re not going to say, you know, let’s have a can of pay. Would you join my listening campaign? You’re just gonna say these kind of pays a good I like the I like the little like the little shrimp tails. So what s all right? So what you want to know is gonna inform what question you’re gonna ask or what questions you’re gonna ask.

[00:19:19.64] spk_0:
Yeah, but it might be, you know, how did you find out about this event? This organization? What? What drew you to To come here, kid. Um, you know, those those kind of questions.

[00:19:27.64] spk_1:
What moves you about our work? What do you know about our work, or what’s your favorite thing that you know about our work or Okay,

[00:19:46.64] spk_0:
Yeah. And sometimes it’s a really great time to ask about. You know what you think of certain words. I’ve you know, it’s kind of taking some notes on some clients that I’m working with that are having issues. And I work with this, uh, organization that’s doing contemporary classical music. And they they

[00:19:46.91] spk_1:
have a really classical what? That’s

[00:20:04.04] spk_0:
modern, modern modern composers doing classical music and they always run into Probably What you’re thinking in your head is like people associate classical music with the big, you know, white wigs and Beethoven

[00:20:06.84] spk_1:
Strauss and right. Yeah.

[00:20:23.94] spk_0:
And so I’m really pushing them to start asking people what does classical mean to them so that they can start to really here where people are coming from and what they need to say. Toe to bridge that gap. Okay.

[00:20:25.44] spk_1:
Okay. How about some other methods? So we got the cocktail party casual. We got the, like, the ocean social listening. What else? What’s more form?

[00:21:57.84] spk_0:
Yeah, you know more. Traditionally, there’s there’s surveys which can be big and laborious, so they could be quick. Just three, You know, two or three questions surveys that you pop into your email. Um, and the thing with surveys is, uh I think really making sure they, um they don’t just They asked the right questions. So, you know, again going back to your goals. You really need to look at that. Um, but a lot of times of surveys, um, they’re not great at predicting people’s behaviors. And so, you know, a survey I’ve run into a lot of nonprofits who will say, you know, we did a survey, and everyone thought, you know, Tuesday at seven was a great time for an event, but no one showed up. Yeah, and and you know, I think the thing there is like, it’s really hard for people to predict. You know how they’re gonna feel on a Tuesday night. You know that it tze different people have, like, a mode for answering surveys. And so really, it’s great to get ideas out in front of people for those surveys. You know, maybe, What do you think? Between these three things, Um, you know, these three messaging campaigns, these three event ideas or even just, um, you know what? Sorry, I just lost my train of thought. My cat came into the room. Um,

[00:21:58.63] spk_1:
okay, we’re very We’re very family friendly. Wonderful. It could be a child in animal. Not only family friendly, family embracing, family embracing. You’re welcome to bring your cat onto this. Excellent.

[00:22:35.24] spk_0:
She might she might just join anyways. Okay, um but having what was going to say is having open ended questions so that you can here some of the things that you might not expect, so a lot of times with surveys will we might make assumptions about things. And when you leave some open ended questions that allows people thio, you know, one participate and feel like they’re engaged, but also opens you up to things you might not have thought to ask about.

[00:22:43.94] spk_1:
Do you have a favorite survey tool? Um, Surveymonkey. Everybody knows story. Monkey. Yeah. You have a favorite monkeys.

[00:22:47.95] spk_0:
Great. I’ve just started thio use type form.

[00:22:51.44] spk_1:
I’m, like form.

[00:23:30.64] spk_0:
Yeah, and and that’s been nice. It’s a little You can actually do some assessments. Uh, but it’s a really It’s more like visually engaging software. Um, so I’ve enjoyed that, and I think things where you can just when you talk about tips like putting things in emails So being able to put the first question of a survey into an email blast so people can just click on that kind of get a sense with the surveys about and that just takes, um, shoots him right into the survey versus click on this link to take the survey and then just sort of like one extra step. Okay,

[00:23:34.04] spk_1:
Do you have ah preferred length? You said they could be super long or it could be very short. I mean, I’ve I’ve had folks on saying, you know, no more than five questions or people start to fade out after so many questions. What’s your advice?

[00:24:16.44] spk_0:
Well, I I the big lengthy ones. Those are like like marketing surveys that some organizations do every couple of years. That’s that’s really not by focus. I like, Yeah, I mean, it’s especially right now. People are changing their mindsets month, a month, the quarter to quarter. And so the more the shorter you could make things and the more focused the better. So I’d rather see people you know asked 3 to 5 questions a month or every other month than 25 question survey each year,

[00:25:30.14] spk_1:
it’s time for Tony’s Take two. I’ve Got a webinar for you. Five Planned giving websites that set the standard. It’s on February 25th, 3 p.m. Eastern time. It’s a romp. It’s a quick shot. I’m gonna take a romp through five plan giving websites in 45 minutes. Show you what I love about them. Show you what not to do that I don’t think is so good on them. And take your questions. Of course. Always time Q. And a quick shot 45 minutes, February 25th at 3 p.m. Eastern time, and you register for this esteemed webinar at PG Websites PG websites that is Tony’s take two. Let us return to listen closely with Emily Taylor. Do you have? Ah, this is different. Unrelated. But where my mind is thinking. So I’m gonna ask you Do you have opinion? An opinion on political polling? Like the accuracy of polling. Do you consider that within your I know you don’t do that work.

[00:25:33.37] spk_0:
Obviously you

[00:25:34.49] spk_1:
consider that within your belly. Wick toe comment on.

[00:26:36.04] spk_0:
I’ve been really fascinated by this. And this is where I go back to, like, whatever you do a survey you always have toe question what people really are, You know, the action versus what they’re predicting. Ah, nde. We’ve seen that with the last two elections of poll numbers just being way off. And so that’s that’s the sense that I get is, um that is a result of, you know, asking people toe fill in boxes versus trying to get to what they how they really feel about things. Um, you know, there’s there’s definitely a I think with surveys we can put on a we don’t want to be mean to this non profit hat or, you know, with political things like we don’t I don’t You know, I don’t quite understand. Can’t quite articulate how I feel. But I I’m just gonna answer this because this feels like the safe thing to Dio. And so those kind of answers don’t help us. Yeah, right.

[00:26:45.54] spk_1:
They’re misleading. Uh, maybe. Maybe not intentionally Or maybe in time, But anyway, they’re not helpful. Leaving your right. Leave it leave. It is not helpful. E want to attribute bad motivations to folks. I don’t want to do that.

[00:26:50.04] spk_0:
No. Like I said, sometimes it’s It’s because you know you don’t wanna be means it’s a It’s a good thing, but it doesn’t help.

[00:26:57.34] spk_1:
How about focus groups? Are there are people doing those online? I mean, it’s certainly eminently doable, are they? Are they valuable? Our folks are people participating.

[00:27:17.04] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve definitely There’s been focus groups happening over the last year. I find them. You know, there’s a lot to be careful with with focus groups because there are group dynamics that you need to be aware of. You need to be

[00:27:28.44] spk_1:
a pro at facilitating those, right? Yes. Yeah. You don’t wanna go off as an amateur trying it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Because you’re asking for people’s honest opinions and

[00:27:40.64] spk_0:
yeah, and it’s very hard for people. You don’t want to talk about some of those being nice elements. That is amplified when you have a few strangers in a room.

[00:27:48.14] spk_1:
Yeah, right. Yeah. I don’t want to say anything controversial. I don’t want anybody feeling. Yeah, but then you’re not getting truthful answers, right? So you need all right, You need a pro if you’re gonna do the actual focus groups, right? Okay. Do you facilitate those? Do you facilitate focus groups?

[00:28:04.84] spk_0:
Um, I do not. Usually there’s a few people I work with that that have done them, or, um, but, like I said, you know, prefer being able Thio digging a little deeper with people

[00:28:16.34] spk_1:
you don’t have that lions lions, then of focus groups. And yeah,

[00:28:40.34] spk_0:
well, I’ve definitely done them in. You know, in the past industrial design world, I’ve watched a lot of focus groups, so e think I I understand how complicated they are. And it’s when you get into, um, nonprofits that air so emotionally entangled in our heads that I don’t find them as is practical.

[00:28:43.24] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So don’t try this at home. Or maybe you don’t need it.

[00:28:47.52] spk_0:
Just just have a good Yeah.

[00:28:49.25] spk_1:
Alright. Another You got another method?

[00:29:20.34] spk_0:
Um, well, another, you know, we can also get into more data driven methods, which is like, a b testing or doing, you know, sending out several different options. And and so this is not listening in the sense that you people are voicing things back, but you’re seeing what decisions they make your observing their behavior. And so I find observing as another type of listening, like,

[00:29:21.18] spk_1:
what are some examples of things you might A B test?

[00:30:13.34] spk_0:
Um, you could a b test a new message you wanted to use to promote a program or or to encourage people to donate. Um, you know, the trick is to always have an action that you want people to take eso You could talk about an event in two different ways. Send that out and see you know what? What? Got people to, you know, come to the event or click for more information? Um, whatever it might be. But that’s those air. Really. They’re harder because again, you don’t get that. Why? But you do. You do get the behavior, which, as I mentioned before in the survey’s can sometimes, um, not come through because, yeah, it’s not someone’s riel reaction. Where reaction.

[00:30:19.54] spk_1:
You’re getting reaction you’re getting You’re getting data. Um, Anything else? Quantitative. You like to quantitative?

[00:30:22.97] spk_0:
Yeah. I, uh I mentioned observing Don’t

[00:30:26.54] spk_1:
hold out on non profit radio listeners. Now, keep anything into my

[00:30:30.51] spk_0:
bag of listening trip.

[00:30:31.84] spk_1:
Nothing. Nothing at the bottom of the bag.

[00:30:57.34] spk_0:
Well, this one is so observing, I think can also happen. Um, it’s a little harder right now, since a lot of people are socially distanced, but observing people’s behaviors, Um, and this could be, you know, watching people and an event. How many people like, if you have different tables where they’re going, you know, keeping track of of some of those things. Are they paying attention to different speakers

[00:31:01.91] spk_1:
when you’re CEO gets up? Does everyone go to the bar or the bathroom? That’s a bad sign.

[00:31:08.04] spk_0:
Yeah, You just don’t know what it means. You know, I always think

[00:31:13.59] spk_1:
they don’t wanna listen. Uh, going to the bar to drink. When? When? The CEO of the bathroom. They probably don’t wanna hear the CEO. So that’s bad.

[00:31:41.14] spk_0:
Well, I always think of the example of, you know, and a friend to other friend gave a speech at an event and came up to her afterwards and was like, What? Why did you hate my speech? What was wrong? And she really She had some sour candy in her mouth the whole time. And so she was kind of like like making these

[00:31:42.47] spk_1:
grimacing, disapproving

[00:31:46.94] spk_0:
faces unintentionally. And so this is where you don’t want to make those assumptions eso we can observe, and that will help

[00:31:53.82] spk_1:
us. I mean, there might be an alternative. Might be an alternative explanation for everybody going to the bathroom when you maybe you had too much

[00:31:59.82] spk_0:
punch. Maybe what? Maybe you serve too much punch.

[00:32:13.74] spk_1:
Punch, punch. All right, All right. So maybe it’s the timing. Okay. Um Alright, so that’s interesting. Yes. Observing dynamics in a room where people where people huddling. What? What? What might you learn from things like from that? Those kinds of observations when we get back to in life are really ever personal. Presidents? What might you What might you pick up or what have you seen? That’s interesting. Um

[00:32:58.54] spk_0:
uh, let’s see. I mean, you can learn like I think of an example like at a museum. You know, where are people stopping and taking the most pictures might learn. Like what is, um, what? Elements of a space are engaging to people and that could then lead you to ask more questions about why that seem more interesting to people. So So sometimes observation helps us come up with more questions than answers, but very, very helpful ones.

[00:33:01.64] spk_1:
Yeah, because those questions then could become goals for your the next phase of your listening campaign.

[00:33:25.14] spk_0:
Yeah, well, and I think, you know, to the museum example, someone might not realize they were, you know, idling in a in a certain room and taking more pictures if you would ask them in a survey or even in an interview. But if you observe them doing that, then they have to kind of think a little bit more about why they why that appealed to them?

[00:33:42.14] spk_1:
Well, that’s it. Like they’re hanging out in the French nudes room. Of course, they’re all going to say, Well, I didn’t realize I didn’t I didn’t know I was there, that really 25 minutes. I don’t make any assumptions about that Yeah, I thought I breezed right through that. The newsroom. Alright. Yeah, e

[00:35:09.14] spk_0:
Just saying Oh, yeah, Are sometimes our minds remember different behaviors than than what we actually did. Yeah, sure. Let’s see if I could think of other ones. Um, I think that that kind of covers I was I was gonna add toe observation is, um and this is less like little observation, but seeing what? What else? People do. Um, and so this could be understanding. Knew where? Where do your where’s your audience shop? What what other things are they doing with their time? Um and so this It’s not really a different method. You might still need to do a survey or interview around this, but but to understand, um, you know those air behaviors that we can then use to work with our programs on dso understanding that people, you know, maybe are more organic or vegan shoppers might then lead us to think more about the food we serve at an event, um, or or how you’re appealing your, um, your mission to people. Especially like a newer There were people. There might be some connection you can make with other habits and behaviors that they have

[00:35:11.05] spk_1:
or knowing maybe what other causes folks give to

[00:35:32.44] spk_0:
exactly. Yeah, um, you know, And knowing that someone shops set eco friendly stores might than, you know, make them more connected to a sustainable part of your organization. And, you know, knowing that you you have sustainable practices could be more appealing to them.

[00:36:28.63] spk_1:
Right? Right. You want to share that? Okay, time for our last break. Quote. There’s nothing as simple as dot drives. Our executive team meets once per week to sit down and go through our dot drives pipelines. It’s fun to watch them have a healthy dialogue and to see them get excited about their numbers rising toward their goals. DOT drives has allowed us to take those key relationships and bring them to a deeper level. End quote. That’s Wendy Adams, director of donor engagement at Patrick Henry. Family Service is prospect to donor simplified. Get the free demo for listeners. Also a free month. It’s all on the listener landing page at we’ve got but loads more time for Listen closely, and I hope that’s what you’re doing. How did you get the company named teeny big?

[00:37:00.93] spk_0:
I gave myself a small window. Thio come up with a name and, um and what I really liked about it is I love zooming in and out on things. And so the big picture is very fascinating to me, but then to zoom in on these little details that we might observe on doing back out to see what we can broadly learn from those, Um, that was that really drew me to to the name.

[00:37:10.63] spk_1:
Okay, Now what? I’m this interesting s So why did you give yourself a time frame for choosing a name? Did you feel like you could go on forever if you didn’t? Yeah.

[00:37:27.83] spk_0:
Yeah. Coming from the design world, I knew I could spend endless amounts of time. And so, yeah, that was an entrepreneur practice I learned of. Give yourself 45 minutes for an idea and just come up with as much as you can. Then, uh, is that

[00:37:31.43] spk_1:
one? You got a company name in 45 minutes? Mhm.

[00:37:33.13] spk_0:
That’s all right. And then 14 minutes for the logo. Yeah. Kept it moving.

[00:37:41.63] spk_1:
Yeah, for a clever name. Okay. Interesting. Very. That was a very productive 45 minutes. Give.

[00:37:43.74] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s interesting. When you give yourself constraints, sometimes you can get a little more creative.

[00:38:13.32] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s for the those of us who work in the last minute. You feel that pressure now? I’m not saying, you know, last but it. But it’s time pressure. You know, your do other things until you know that you’re at the point where you absolutely have to focus on something else. And then you do. I mean, it’s amazing. You know how I can squander three hours and it’s amazing what I could do in 25 minutes. Uh

[00:38:20.72] spk_0:
huh. Yeah, that’s a part of the brain I’ve not quite understood, but it’s It definitely forces some focus. That helps. Yeah,

[00:38:34.72] spk_1:
it’s valuable. It helps. May not that I’m squandering 7/8 of my day, and then I’m only working half hour a day. But but the time pressure of ah, of an imminent deadline helps me.

[00:38:41.72] spk_0:
Yeah, sometimes you have to force it in yourself. I’d like to think about really didn’t like the names. I could just give myself another 45 minutes. But all right,

[00:38:42.21] spk_1:
you’re cheating. Then you’re gonna cheat yourself. I know, I know. Not setting the boundaries. You’re not supposed to abandon your boundaries. Emily, you’re supposed to stay. It was there was

[00:38:51.38] spk_0:
this part of my brain was telling myself that. And then the other part was like, Wait,

[00:38:57.92] spk_1:
maybe if I need more time. All right. Um, what else? Where else do radio? Where else do we go from here? Where do you wanna talk about?

[00:41:06.01] spk_0:
Let’s see, One of the things I love to talk about that I think is not happening very much in the nonprofit world is prototyping and testing on dso. I mentioned this a little bit in the ways toe. Listen, um and this kind of gets into again, like a lot of listening, and it’s a, you know, professional listening, not just conversation is trying Thio get answers to these questions that people aren’t always able to articulate. And so when we can get ideas in front of people that allows them to react. So, you know, you could you might be able to say, Oh, what would get you to come to this next event? You want pizza or free wine or, you know, you might be ableto like Sorry. I phrase it the wrong way. You might ask somebody that and they might say The obvious answer is like pizza and wine or or a discount. Um, I feel like that’s sort of the ultimate, um, answer to a lot of non profit questions when when they do surveys is people like Oh, yeah, I would come if I just had a discount or if there’s a free ticket and and yeah, I like the amount of non profits I hear that. Say, they gave them the discount and they didn’t come, Um, And so if instead we get ideas in front of people and say, You know, what if we had a Q and A at the end, or what if we, um, you know, told you some really interesting stories about this artist or composer? Um, you know, and maybe share some of those tidbits so they would understand what that actually meant. Um, you can start to paint a picture that they could get excited about, and so maybe it isn’t about the discount or the free thing, but it’s about the the interesting value that they would get out of it. Um, and they’re able to react to that rather than having to come up with the idea of themselves

[00:41:08.19] spk_1:
can give another example. It feels like we’re talking in the you’re talking in the abstract. Can we?

[00:41:13.05] spk_0:
Yeah.

[00:41:14.51] spk_1:
Can come An example for us. Toe ground. This?

[00:41:36.41] spk_0:
Yeah, yeah, let me think of a good one. So let’s see, with, uh, there was an organization that they were really having our arts organization, that they discovered that people were viewing them mawr as a entertainment venue. So people were coming and supporting them through ticket sales, but they weren’t moving towards donations And really seeing this organization

[00:41:45.71] spk_1:
as Yeah,

[00:43:11.70] spk_0:
yeah, and so they’re kind of struggling in this barrier. And so what we did is we actually prototypes, um, three statements that they could say ahead of their programming to remind people about the broader work that they were doing what happens, you know, when they left the building and on DWI could hit different, you know, emotional touch points. You know, one was really about the big picture of how this organization fit into the world. One gave us a practical numbers around the impact they were making. I think one told a good story about the history of the organization and So those were prototypes. Those were three different ways they could talk to people about why their organization is more than just entertainment on DSO. Then they could take those those concepts and whether it was in a survey and have people kind of choose which motivated the most. Or through an interview where they can literally just get, you know, ask people what they thought about those different. You know, those different statements and use that to then build a really powerful statement that when they did actually go, so have the next event. They had the confidence that that would make an impact. Okay,

[00:43:33.50] spk_1:
Okay. Helpful. Thank you. All right. Um, any anything we should be cautious of when we’re having doing this work? Maybe whether it’s casual at the over the counter pay table at an event or whether it’s more formal. Any lessons learned that we should avoid?

[00:44:00.29] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve been going back thio some of things I’ve said before about people don’t always know what will motivate them. Um, and you know, they don’t always know what they’re the kind of predict their behaviors in a certain situation. And so I’ve definitely learned to live with a certain sense of, uh, uncertainty,

[00:44:01.45] spk_1:
A certain sense of uncertainty, a

[00:45:23.19] spk_0:
certain sense of yeah, helpful. Um, you know, listening is a process, and so it’s not as concrete as, um, you know, maybe some some more quantitative data points, but it is. It’s something you should always be doing. But always questioning on dhe. This kind of goes back to making, making assumptions about people you want to make sure that we’re not taking people literally, um, that that were, you know, uh, that we’re trying to figure out the motivations behind them. The, um you know, not just the functional touchpoints. So maybe, are they attending an event? Um, would they want to attend event, But also the why behind it? You know what really draws them to your organization? What caught their eye about that event? Um, and using that to then, you know, kind of taking those bits and pieces and building a story about them slowly so that we’re not. So I feel like I’m kind of getting in a little bit of a word. Jumble. Right. Okay.

[00:45:32.19] spk_1:
Well, you first of all, for functional touchpoints almost put you in jargon jail. I

[00:45:32.30] spk_0:
know. I

[00:45:32.73] spk_1:
know. Okay? Yeah.

[00:45:52.49] spk_0:
Yeah. Tony and I were just talking about jargon on LinkedIn. So, Z, uh, my watch out is to toe always sort of live in this hypothesis with listening on dso I think of. I think of it as, like a scientist.

[00:45:56.65] spk_1:
Okay, what’s the What’s the hypothesis? Oh, that you have a hypothesis going in.

[00:46:50.38] spk_0:
Well, that’s so a scientist is, um, you know, studying rocks, and they might find certain information about those rocks, but they always always have to keep questioning. Is that true? Is that true? Is that you know, is that really, um, the truth? And so I think with listening, it’s the same thing. People are complicated and so we can keep listening and gathering mawr information. Um, but we also have to know that it’s not solid ground that we’re standing on it. Z, it’s something that my ebb and flow throughout. Okay, you know, a ZX time moves on, and so it’s You have to live with some uncertainty. I e I guess what I’m saying is that if you you know, you don’t just do a survey and wipe your hands and think you have all the answers.

[00:47:06.08] spk_1:
Understand? Okay, right. You may need to have You may very well need to probe further. Asked what? Little asking One more question. Ah, dive deeper Thio to get to the rial. Yeah, Motivations person people really motivations what really moves them?

[00:47:25.78] spk_0:
Yeah. And you know, like this year as a ZX vaccinations happened, Those the ideas that people said in March might not be the same as in September. Eso you just have to live with some of that that uncertainty,

[00:47:27.28] spk_1:
okay, but it’s still worth proving its worth. Oh, yeah. You’re listening campaigns, Of course.

[00:47:35.98] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, it’s better than saying the wrong the wrong thing. All

[00:47:36.78] spk_1:
right, we’re gonna leave it there. Okay?

[00:47:38.78] spk_0:
Okay. All right.

[00:47:51.38] spk_1:
Emily Taylor. Principle of teeny big at teeny big dot com, which was derived in 45 minutes or or less. Um, thank you very much, Emily. Thanks for sharing.

[00:47:53.98] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Thanks for having me.

[00:48:00.37] spk_1:
I did pronounce your name. Right? Right. Emily, You okay? Okay. No more shy and awkward either. Well, you’re over that. Your china smart assed, uh, non profit radio. You are. Thank you very much.

[00:48:07.77] spk_0:
Thank you.

[00:48:57.67] spk_1:
Next week, strategic execution you know, strategic planning Now what if you missed any part of this week’s show? I beseech you, Find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives prospect to donor Simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty, with me next week for non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for August 7, 2020: Donor Surveys & People-Powered Movements

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Crystal Mahon & Christian Robillard: Donor Surveys

Make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying. Crystal Mahon and Christian Robillard talk principles, best practices and goal setting. Crystal is with STARS Air Ambulance and Christian is at Beyond The Bake Sale. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)

 

 

 

 

Celina Stewart & Gloria Pan: People-Powered Movements

This 20NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Celina Stewart from League of Women Voters U.S. and Gloria Pan with MomsRising.

 

 

 

 

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[00:02:40.44] spk_1:
on welcome tony-martignetti profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Welcome to our first podcast only show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of in Texas itis if you inflamed me with the idea that you missed today’s show Donor surveys. You’ll make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard talk principles. Best practices and goal setting Crystal is with stars, Air ambulance and Christian. Is that beyond the bake sale? This is part of our 20 and TC coverage and people powered movements. This 20 NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Selena Stewart from League of Women Voters. US and Gloria Pan with mom’s rising on tony steak, too. Planned giving accelerator were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is donor surveys. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference and 10 made the excruciating decision to cancel the non profit technology conference. But we are continuing virtually. You’ll get just as much value. We don’t have to all be close to pick the brains of the expert speakers from From N 10. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Go to tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Crystal is manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance and Christian is founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the Bake Sale. Crystal Christian. Welcome. Welcome to non profit radio,

[00:02:44.19] spk_2:
tony.

[00:02:45.00] spk_0:
Thanks, tony. Great to be here.

[00:02:46.42] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure to have both of you. You are both in ah, in Canada. Crystal. You are in Alberta and Christian. Remind me where you are.

[00:02:55.54] spk_0:
I’m in Ah, beautiful, Sunny Ottawa, Ontario.

[00:03:00.02] spk_1:
Ottawa. No other capital? Yes, in

[00:03:01.23] spk_0:
your nation’s capital. Not be not be disputed with Toronto. Who likes to think that the capital

[00:03:29.66] spk_1:
I know well and many Americans think it’s either Montreal with Toronto? Yes, but, uh, Ottawa Capital. All right. I’m glad to know that you’re both well and safe. Um, and glad to have you both with us. Thanks. Um, we’re talking about donor surveys. Your your NTC topic is ah, Dorner surveys your untapped data goldmine Crystal. Why are surveys a data goldmine?

[00:03:45.11] spk_2:
Well, we have the fortunate launching a survey. We’ve never done one prior to 2016. And when we did it, we were amazed at what we found. So we learned a lot about our donors. Education preferences. We made money, like, usually made that on that. And I’ll talk about. We actually ended up learning a lot about I’m getting prospects. And turns out that there were a lot of donors that we had no idea name Justin there will ever interested in the will. So there was a lot of revenue like hidden revenue that we were finally getting access to you. So that’s are where that line is moving your wits, but it’s preparing to you.

[00:04:23.61] spk_1:
Interesting. I’m looking forward to drilling into that more because I didn’t plan to giving fundraising as a consultant on sometimes asked by clients about doing surveys. So I’m interested in what you’re doing as well. Um, and and you’re getting gifts. You said you’ve made money back from them. So people do send you gifts of cash along with their surveys.

[00:04:53.69] spk_2:
Yes. Like this year we get. Because last year, 2019 are stars. Allies there, maybe $300,000 And that all the you people have been found for giving what? We’re looking at dollars. So it’s you cannot do a survey to seem like you. Point?

[00:04:54.30] spk_1:
Yeah. Did you say billions? With a B?

[00:04:57.21] spk_2:
No millions and

[00:05:08.78] spk_1:
millions. Okay, the audio is not perfect, so it almost sounded billions. So I want to be sure, because I’m listeners have the same question. Okay, Millions, millions is still very, very good. Um, Christian? Anything you want to head to about Why these air Ah, such a gold mine for non profits.

[00:05:14.81] spk_0:
I mean, besides the fact that you’re using data, obviously, to reinforce certain decisions and Teoh highlight certain wealth elements, I would say in terms of your sponsorship potential, I know a lot of organizations are looking more so into the corporate sponsorship corporate engagement side of things. And I think with your donor surveys, you could really reveal a lot around where people are working there levels in terms of positions within a certain company or organization. And that can lead you down some interesting pass from a corporate sponsorship perspective.

[00:06:05.94] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, your, um your description of the workshop said that make the most of the donors you already have. And it sounds like you both obviously are going there. Is there anything you want to add about sussing out the value that’s in your that you don’t know? You have among your current donors?

[00:06:31.20] spk_2:
Well, from our perspective, like it’s given us an opportunity to get to know our donors better in terms of what? What are they actually interested in learning about the organization or why are they choosing given that allows us to tailor messages, just be a lot more personal with them and act like we really know that was supposed to them just being a number. This is an opportunity to really cultivate that relationship and just continue bring them on war.

[00:06:41.08] spk_1:
Okay, um, is most of your content in the workshop around as practices for surveys? Is that what we’re gonna be exploring? Mostly

[00:07:05.94] spk_2:
Christian feel free to jump in and say that we were looking a lot of fast. Her best practice, then also, case studies. People would have some tangible examples how to actually launch one with consider. And what would actually need to do once they got

[00:07:24.46] spk_1:
OK? All right, well, let’s, um let’s start with, Like, where? Where do you get started? Who, Who who were the best people to send surveys to our What types of information are are you finding our most responded to or what types of questions are most responded to? How can you help us sort of frame? Ah ah, an outline of what we were to get started.

[00:07:55.62] spk_2:
Well, Christian and I talked a lot about building the proper spoke of your surveys of figuring out. Why exactly are you? What do you try to find out? And once, you kind of I guess you were down exactly what you’re trying to learn, what you’re trying to cheat, That sort of helping bigger. You need to actually reach up to what? The audience. You need to know that before.

[00:08:06.93] spk_1:
Okay, So, starting with your goals, what was the purpose of the darn thing? Yes. Okay. Okay. Um Christian. You want to jump in around, you know it’s starting to get this process started.

[00:08:15.29] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as crystal, I were kind of building this piece at whether you’re talking about more of a philanthropic, focus for your surveying or whether you’re talking about more of a corporate sponsorship focus of it. You only want to ask yourself, I never different questions before you even get going things around. What do you ultimately want to know about your donor base? Or about this particular audience population that you’re ultimately looking for? More information on? Why are you doing this in the first place? Is, Is this more responsive? Isn’t it more of a proactive type surveyed that explore new avenues? Would you ultimately need to know? I think that’s an important element to focus on Is not asking everything but asking the right things? Who do you need to ask? So who is the actual population that you’re targeting at the end of the day? What would you do with the information? So don’t just collect information for information, say not that that’s not important. But what’s the actual actionable pieces for that? And how are you gonna protect that information? I think with today’s sensitivities around around data privacy, it’s really important for charities and nonprofits to Stuart that data as they would any type of gift that they ultimately get.

[00:09:27.71] spk_1:
Yeah, in terms of the data stewardship that that may constrain what you asked as well, because now you have, ah, conceivably a higher level of security that you need to maintain

[00:09:32.60] spk_0:
absolutely tony and even just in terms of sensitivities, of phrasing, certain questions, and that it’s important for you to think about how you phrase certain things and how intimate your ultimately getting. And if you do get that intimate, like you said, how do you protect that data? But also, what’s the purpose for collecting that particular piece of data side from? Well, it might be a nice toe have someday, instead of this actually contributes towards our bottom line.

[00:10:00.13] spk_1:
You’re doing surveys around corporate sponsorship, right? That’s the example you mentioned. So you’re getting to know where people work so that you might use that information for potential sponsorships.

[00:11:02.31] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, when you look at sponsorship, ultimately it it’s very much a business transaction. If you look at how Forbes just define sponsorship. It’s very much the cash and in kind fee paid to a property, a property being whether it’s ah terrible run or some type of adventure conference in this case, um, in return for access to the exploitable commercial potential associate without property. So anything of any other type of exploitable commercial potential, which is the most buzzer and definition you possibly could. If you think of any type of advertising medium, whether it’s TV, radio print, you want to know ultimately cruising your audience. And one of the best and most effective ways to do that is to conduct some type of survey to really tease out who are some of your very specific or niche audiences. Cannabis a niche. So it’s a bit of a cringe for for us up here in the North. But, uh, having a survey to really tease out who are who’s in your audience. And some of the more behavioral psychographic demographic features of that audience are particularly important, toe have to really make a compelling case toe corporations looking to use sponsorship with your organization,

[00:11:20.18] spk_1:
the, um what four matter using Christian crystal, I’m gonna ask you the same thing shortly. What? How are these offered to people?

[00:11:28.33] spk_0:
Yeah, so we so in the experience of I’ve high, we usually use ah surveymonkey survey of some kind that allows for a lot of cross top analysis to be able to say that people who are in between the ages of 18 and 29 this particular set of income, they have these particular purchase patterns. They care about your cause, toe ends degree. They, um, are engaged with your cause or with your property and whether it’s through social media or through certain print advertisements or whatever that might be. And we usually collect around 30 plus data points on all of those on all those elements, ranging from again behavioral to the demographic to psychographic Teoh. Some very pointed, specific questions around the relationship between your cause and the affinity for a certain corporation based on that based on not caring for that cause.

[00:12:39.89] spk_1:
Yeah. So you said collecting around 30 data points, does that? Does that mean a survey would have that many questions? Absolutely. Okay, now I’ve heard from guests in the past. May have even been ntc guests. Not this year, but, you know, the optimal number of questions for surveys like five or six or so and people bailout beyond that point.

[00:13:58.37] spk_0:
Yeah, and and usually before I had actually sent out a survey of that magnitude, I would agree with you. Tony and I agree with most. I think that the important differentiators one is that you frame it as it’s very much for improving the relationships and the ability for the cause properties, whether that’s your run, your gala, whatever that might be to raise money and usually the audience that you’re setting. That, too, is very receptive to that. I think you want to frame it also as your only collecting the most important of information. And you’re also looking at ah again like you’re incentivizing in some way, shape or form. So usually when you tailor it with some type of incentive Buta $50 gift card opportunity Teoh win something like that. Usually people a lot more or a lot more receptive. And in the time that we’ve done surveys, whether it’s in my my past days, consulting in the space or now doing a lot of work with charities nonprofits, we sent it to tens of thousands of respondents and get a pretty a pretty strong response rate and a really nominal, if negligible, amount of an unsubscribe rates. So people are not un subscribing from getting those questions, and in fact, they’re answering a lot of them and an important element, as well as making them optional. So not forcing people to house to fill out certain pieces but giving them the freedom to answer whatever questions they feel compelled to. But when you’re doing it for the cause, people are pretty are pretty compelled to respond to those states of questions.

[00:14:01.77] spk_1:
Okay, Crystal, how about you? What? What format are your service offered in?

[00:14:31.04] spk_2:
Did you both offline and online? So our donor base tends to skew a little bit older, though for us, a physical mailing is absolutely I’m only deals online, burgeon for, I guess, other parts of our donor base that are different. The graphical, just based on that person’s preference, is giving them that opportunity. But what we did find is that in terms of our offline responses, we had a lower was off rate of responses to the survey, but exponentially more donations coming through offline as online and then for online responses of the online certainly had a lot more responses to be online. Survey. There are fewer donations, so I found that there was an inverse relationship there about that very thing.

[00:15:41.08] spk_1:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness This is still a front burner issue. You have got to get your loan forgiveness application in. Wegner has the info you need. Their latest free wagon are explains the state of P P P Loan forgiveness. What is forgivable? What documentation do you need? How to work with your lender? Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource Is and recorded events. Now back to donor surveys with Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Do you, ah, subscribe to the same opinion about the length that that could be up to 30 questions? In a survey, a ZX Christian was saying,

[00:16:17.66] spk_2:
We personally have a practice of you tiki bars between five and 10 questions. And sometimes we even Taylor that we know that some of these interested in particular programs we might take out a certain question. But in something else related specifically to them, for their isn’t variability in the surveys, but generally quite short, but I do agree with Christian for sure in terms of really framing the purpose of the survey and you to the questions around this is the whole purpose of this is to build a relationship with them and better serve them and get to know them better. And I think that really prince, And then you also

[00:16:23.41] spk_1:
just gonna ask about incentivizing, Okay? Something similar, Like drawing for a gift card. Something like that.

[00:16:33.91] spk_2:
Yeah. We get a star’s prize package. We wanted to do something about these decisions. You couldn’t get something but elsewhere. So yeah, way start for merchandise. So that’s

[00:17:18.04] spk_1:
okay. I’m gonna thank Christian for not having a good, uh, good video appearance because, you know, I’ve done 10 of these today, and they’re all gonna be all the video’s gonna be preserved. Except this one. Because Christian, um, as a very extreme background is really just a silhouette ahead with headphones. Really? Little I can see. But I’m grateful because my background just fell. I have a little tony, I have a tony-martignetti. You watched other of these videos which you’re gonna be available. This tony-martignetti non profit radio. So the easel you know, what’s that for? A form core, you know, sign. And it was behind me. It was, and it just fell while Crystal was talking. So thank you, Christian.

[00:17:29.66] spk_0:
It was just so surprised that you could ask 30 questions on a survey and get some type of degree of response.

[00:17:38.43] spk_1:
Only it shook my house that I’m

[00:17:40.42] spk_0:
30 data points. What madness is this? I’m

[00:17:58.70] spk_1:
so a gas man. Yes. And then also the fact that you the two of you disagree. Um, all right, so but I’m shouting myself, calling myself out as having a flimsy background lasted through. And that’s through, like, seven hours of this. I

[00:17:58.85] spk_0:
love it. Also, we don’t necessarily disagree, but I think different surveys serve their different purposes. So I agree with Crystal that in that particular case, you only need descends. One that has 5 to 10 questions rise in this case, your public sending it to in a slot strip case, you’re probably sending it to a larger population of people. And you only need a certain amount of people to fill it out.

[00:18:18.73] spk_1:
Crystal, I had asked you, and you probably answered, but I got distracted by my collapsing background. What? What kinds of incentives do you offer?

[00:18:40.21] spk_2:
We offer stars prize pack. So it’s stars over two nights that we want to talk or something a little bit different other than my gift card that they could get through any other. Yeah, it’s so different Angle

[00:19:00.18] spk_1:
personalized two stars. Okay, Okay, Um, now, was yours specifically Ah, planned giving survey, or did you just have a couple of planned giving questions? And that’s where you discovered this data goldmine of future gift. And all the wheels that you found out that you’re in was

[00:19:27.84] spk_2:
it was it was not specific to plan giving, so it was more just a general survey. And then we did have a question about plan giving and that we were stunned. But subsequent years we kept asking mad, and right now we’re sort of in the middle of doing that whole. I’m giving strategy and trying to really build that out. Now that we know that there is this whole core people that are interested in this. So it’s really opened up the water opportunities President organization after all.

[00:19:43.23] spk_1:
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. All right. So you learned from the first time this is you’re in a lot more estates than you had. Any idea? Um, let’s let’s talk about some more good practices for surveys. Crystal, is there something you can one of two things you want to recommend and then we’ll come toe go back to Christian.

[00:19:53.81] spk_2:
Yeah, One of my major things is that if you’ve been asked a question, you have to know where you’re going to do with that data after the fact that you were people just ask the question to ask a question for whatever reason. But then they don’t action. Anything out of it to me is very important that if our donors are gonna spend the time actually breathe through your survey, respond, mail it in or submitted online, that we actually do something that that information is the weather bats killer. It’s a messaging or changing communication preferences or whatever it is you’re asking us to do, you were tell has I think that’s so important that you have to have all a plan once these losses come back. And what are we gonna do with them? Who was going to take action? How are we gonna reason with this? How are we going to use information.

[00:21:15.77] spk_1:
I think of date of birth is as a good example of that. If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna develop a plan to congratulate someone for their birth on their birthday each year, then that could be a valuable data point. Um, but if you just, you know, if you’re just asking because you you don’t have a purpose, you just interested in what their ages? For some vague reason, then there’s no there’s no value in asking. And if it is just to follow up, if it’s just to know their you know when you want to send a card, maybe you don’t need the year. Maybe just need the day in the month. But if there’s value to your database for knowing their age and you would ask for a year

[00:21:23.72] spk_2:
exactly how he felt down, what do we need to know? I really asking

[00:21:30.90] spk_1:
why, Kristen, you have a best practice you want to share.

[00:21:33.84] spk_0:
Yeah, I would say Consider the not just the population size that you’re not just the population that you’re serving, but also the representative makeup. So if you know that your database is predominantly on more, the senior side of things, but you’re getting a disproportion amount of more individuals who are on the younger side of things. In terms of respondents, that’s something important that you have to take into account. So the makeup of the actual population is is more important. I would argue that the amount of responses you could get a crazy amount of responses. But if it doesn’t represent the population that you’re serving and that who make up your donors, it’s it’s not gonna be valuable dated to you. I remember one time we had a ZX instance for an organization wanted Teoh do a survey for sponsor purposes, and in other cases, it’s been from or donor specific, like, I will just put it on on Facebook or Twitter or something like that. It’s not necessarily your population is not necessarily the group that you’re looking that you’re actively engaged with a fundraising perspective. You get information to the otherwise and then obviously reflect on that and use that. But be really clear about the breakdown that you need to have in order to make the information, actually, representative of the rest of your database,

[00:22:47.24] spk_1:
Um, what kind of response rates what’s what’s a decent response rate to, ah to a survey?

[00:23:06.51] spk_0:
I think it depends what type of server you’re sending. I will let Crystal speak to this more, but I’d say if it’s philanthropic. Eikenberry on the sponsorship side of things you’re looking for a response rate that coincides with the 95% confidence interval with a 5% margin of error. Let’s get market data to calculate that there’s a bunch of big captain complicated formulas that we probably have all repressed from our time in. In statistics Citizen that in university there’s ah company called Surveymonkey that actually has a calculator for its. If you go to the Surveymonkey website, you can actually just plug in a what the sample side of what the actual size of the database you’re sending into. And you can plug in what confidence interval that you want. And then what margin of error that you’d like, and it will pump out a number of a minimum that you need to have. I would say that’s a good starting point. But again, as I talked about before, make sure you have the representative break up breakdown of, ah, who’s actually within your audience reflected in the survey results and don’t have it disproportionately skewed towards a particular demographic that might be just more inclined. Teoh, respond to surveys.

[00:24:25.04] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, Crystal, Anything you want to add about the confidence, it’s different, but yeah, I withdraw that. That doesn’t make sense for you because you’re doing individual philanthropic surveys. So each response you get is valuable. You find out that someone is interested in planned giving already, has you in their will. That one response has has great value. Yes. Okay.

[00:24:39.74] spk_2:
Our purpose of our surveys a little bit different. We don’t worry so much about that, but I actually meeting how like that in your mind. Reaching out to you?

[00:24:44.24] spk_1:
What? What kind of response rate to use for the crystal is still you know, these things? Things take time and you’re doing Some of them are offline. So there’s postage and printing, et cetera. What kind of response rate do you consider good for? For a NH effort like that

[00:25:40.43] spk_2:
in terms of financial reform? Three. So don’t verify that for us, a response to the survey doesn’t necessarily mean a gift, and it gets to the survey, doesn’t necessarily mean that they responded to a number. Yes, we usually eight or 86%. But in terms of actual response to the survey, we’ve seen his lower 2% for the highest 7% a year of channel. So either way, like we have, quite like we have quite a large database. So any of you to be So get this information, your father.

[00:25:42.89] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, for your online surveys. Crystal, are you using surveymonkey? Also, did you say

[00:25:48.80] spk_2:
use a couple leased surveymonkey last year? It is very user friendly. What? I would caution people are always print about whatever price package designed for because, like you discussed for our surveys a big focuses financial tournament. So we needed to price plan that involved being able to redirect right from surveymonkey page to our donation form. So you had to be really mindful things like that. So in some of the basic packages, they don’t write redirect donation form in that you can’t Do you have a really negatively impact your

[00:26:27.94] spk_1:
Is there another online tool that you like? Also you?

[00:26:52.64] spk_2:
I used Teoh from cold response. Ter. We’ve there be start a sweetener somewhere in Europe, and they were very good, though there are some limitations is well with them in terms of what the packages offer. But bring out we’re using serving Look, you know what was sending out like, for example, looking at surveys. This any surveymonkey already of our to be rich 8th 1 So that’s what we’re using.

[00:26:56.04] spk_1:
Okay, how about you, Christian? Is there another one besides Surveymonkey that you could recommend?

[00:27:22.01] spk_0:
I I think it just depends on what you’re looking for. A tony. So if you’re looking for a lot of, let’s say, more qualitative answers, I’d say even a Google form would would be more than would be more than acceptable. It really just depends on what functionality want to get out of. I used every monkey pretty religiously, just cause it’s like Crystal said. It’s very user friendly. It has the functionality that I need, and it’s and it’s relatively reasonable in terms of in terms of price point for what you get. It’s also gonna depend, and it’s up to you to do due diligence on what types of functionality you need. You need to integrate with your database for other software. Do you need certain functionality. Do you actually know how to use a lot of those things? Is there gonna be support and again, like what? What are they going to do with your data? Like, do they have access to your data? Whether it’s metadata or otherwise, Are there other rules of jurisdictions you have to consider with that data privacy? So I use every monkey by lots of considerations to make.

[00:28:04.85] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. Thank you. And Kristen wanted to, uh why don’t you lead us out with some Take us out with some, I guess. Motivation. Closing thoughts like to end with?

[00:28:05.97] spk_0:
Absolutely, I would say from a sponsor perspective, whether you’re a large organization or small organization, the riches during the niches. So to do good sponsorship, it requires good data, and it requires those 30 plus data points. But whether you’re a big group or a small group, you can compete at the same scale, especially with the amount of money that’s being spent on cost sponsorship over $2 million a worldwide, which is no small amount of money. That’s that you can get access you whether you’re $100,000 a year, order a $1,000,000 plus requires good data. So make sure you’re collecting good data. Make sure you’re clear on what do you want to use your information for? And, uh, not just the diligent in ah, making training step, but the data is actually protected.

[00:28:50.64] spk_1:
Okay, um, I was I was I was gonna let Christian end, But since the two of you have such divergent purposes, which is fabulous for it’s great for a discussion Divergent purposes around your surveys. Crystal, why don’t you take us out on the on the filling topic? The individual donor side?

[00:29:51.64] spk_2:
Yes. So play for discussing. Don’t be afraid to fundraise just because survey doesn’t mean that you can’t make money off of it. People are supporting you enough that they’re willing to fill out the remainder onto you. They may be going to donators alone, and then I’ll help without it said you have to know why you do what you do with that information. It’s really important in terms of respecting your door time and back. That there giving you this information, you need to be able to use it and sort properly and safely. And then last may I just say please, please please test your survey before you actually sending out Senator One other part fans are other people that are not in the midst of building the surveys that you can find out. You phrase things appropriately. You’re actually wanting what you want to functionality is appropriate. I think that’s just so we don’t have one chance of finding out. So just make sure that

[00:30:01.59] spk_1:
okay, thank you very much. That’s Crystal Mahan, manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance. And with her is Christian Rubber Yard founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the bake sale crystals in Alberta. And ah, I’m sorry, Crystal. Did I just say Crystal? Yeah.

[00:30:21.02] spk_2:
You know, yesterday

[00:30:23.48] spk_1:
I say, Chris Christie, Mr Just all I know is in Alberta,

[00:30:25.30] spk_0:
you know, we don’t make it easy on your tony

[00:30:36.35] spk_1:
on, and I got through 25 minutes. So well, and I know it’s a lackluster host. I’m sorry. This is stuck with in the Christians in the capital city of Ottawa. Thank you so much, Christian Crystal. Thank you very

[00:30:40.72] spk_0:
much. Thanks, tony.

[00:33:31.93] spk_1:
Thanks to you for being with joining martignetti non profit radio coverage off 20 NTC, the non profit technology conference Responsive at the conference by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain will get you a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us now. Time for Tony’s Take two. I am still very proud to announce the launch of planned giving accelerator. This is a yearlong membership community that is going to get your planned giving program started. I’m going to give you exclusive webinars Exclusive podcasts. Yes, beyond tony-martignetti non profit radio, there’s gonna be the exclusive podcast for accelerator members. Small group asked me anything. Sessions over Zoom I’ll have Resource is like templates and checklists. All of this is to get your planned giving program started. You’ll join for a year. I will keep you filled with exclusive content, and you will get your program started. I promise I will make planned giving easy, accessible and affordable. You can check out all the information at planned giving accelerator dot com. If you may not be quite ready for membership, you don’t want to look at that quite yet. You just want to dip your toes in the water. I have a free how to guide about getting your planned giving program started to see a theme. Here, you see, you see the consistency running through here. This is not This is not accidental. Please, please the free how to guide you Download that also at planned giving accelerator dot com, that is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for people powered movements. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference. Of course, the conference was canceled, but we are persevering. Virtually sponsored. A 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. Selena is senior director of advocacy and litigation at League of Women Voters. US. And Gloria is vice president for member engagement at Mom’s Rising Celina. Gloria. Welcome. Hello. I’m glad we were able to put this virtually. It’s good to see both of you. Um and I’m glad to know that you each well and safe and in either D. C or just outside D. C. Selena, you’re in d. C and Gloria. Where you outside Washington Gloria

[00:33:46.60] spk_4:
I am actually near Dulles Airport. So, you know, some people commute from here, but because Mom’s rising is a virtual organization, I don’t. And so when people ask me for lunch, I’m always like, Okay, it takes a little bit more planning. I have to bend. I have to get my body injustices.

[00:34:18.24] spk_1:
Okay, Um, you’re NTC Topic is a revolution is coming. Top tactics, build people powered movements. Um, Selena, would you get us started with this? What? What was the need for the session?

[00:35:27.88] spk_3:
Well, I think, um, I think one of the things is right now it’s all about people power. You know, there’s everything is so politicized right now, and I think that there is often a conversation about how people are involved with what government actually represents or what the government is representing. So I think that that’s really, really important. Um, we also saw, like, a 2018 mawr voter turnout, more voters turning out to vote and things like that. So I think that that also is a part of us people conversation like what is compelling people to participate, even mawr, or at a greater extent in their democracy. But all of these things kind of work together to figure out. Not only do we have people engaged now, but what is important. What just community is more people become engaged. How does how does our definition of our community and communities in general changes? More people are included and participating all of those things. So I think that we’re at a very interesting and crucial moment in time. And so people powered and people involved movement. It’s it’s, I think it’s always happen. But it’s just a coin phrase. I think that’s especially prevalent right now.

[00:35:56.69] spk_1:
Good, Gloria, even though participation is is very high, were also largely polarized. So how do we overcome the opposite ends of the spectrum to tryto bring people together and and organize?

[00:36:01.33] spk_4:
Are you talking about everyone or are you talking about voters?

[00:36:17.39] spk_1:
Uh, well, I’m talking about the country. I don’t know. I don’t know whether I don’t know where the people are voting, but I’m talking about our political polarization. I don’t know if they’re necessarily voting. I

[00:36:20.97] spk_3:
I talked about voting, so I probably threw it off a little bit. Glory. They act like I’m asking for

[00:37:19.89] spk_4:
complication only because, like some of the most talented and I think unifying on politicians in recent memory. For example, Barack Obama did not succeed in unifying all of us, right? So there are some segments of our citizenry that will just not do it. We will not be able to come together with them. But I think that for, um, people who really do want the best for our country and who are open minded enough, Teoh want to hear from other people who have different, you know, slightly different ways of looking at the world. It is possible to do it, and that goes back to what Selena was saying about people powered movements. I think that one of the reasons why that’s become more more of a catchphrase is that you know, we are in an era of information overload. We are in an era of polarization and not believing everything that we’re seeing on the Internet and in the news. And so being able to actually really connect with people on the ground, in person, over the phone, but directly and not going through the filter of social media or news movements is it’s increasingly important, and that will be one of the main channels for us to unify as many people as possible.

[00:38:16.42] spk_1:
So we’re talking about creating these both online and offline, right? Um, people powered people, centred movements. Um, how, Gloria, how do we want nonprofits to think about or what we need to think about in terms of doing this, organizing, creating these these movements,

[00:39:11.07] spk_4:
I’m First of all, it’s about inclusivity. Okay, So, um, at least from where we set Mom’s rising and me speaking on behalf of Monster Rising right now, we want to make sure that whatever we do and if it’s the most people and harms no one at all, if possible. So that’s one part of it. How we speak, how we communicate to make sure that what we’re speaking and how we communicate does not reinforce add stereotypes that creates divisions. Okay, that’s one way, another way, not way. But another thing to consider are also the tools that we’re using. Are we using your people are on different kinds of communication tools. Some people only do Facebook. Other people only do on email on dhe. There also is like text messaging there. All of these new community communications goes towards coming on and being on top of the different tools. Superb, warden, Because we need to meet people where they are. Um, because you’re just a couple of thoughts.

[00:39:36.49] spk_1:
Okay. Um so sorry, Selina. So we’re talking about diversity equity inclusion. Let’s drill down into a little bit of, like, what do we What do we need to do around our communications that is more equitable and non harming?

[00:39:57.72] spk_3:
So I think that’s an important question of us. Definitely something that has been injured in the leaks work over the last, I would say five years, but more intentionally over the last two. I’m sorry. I

[00:40:01.52] spk_1:
mean, he’s sorry. Whose work?

[00:42:09.00] spk_3:
The league. I’m sorry. I always refer to the League of Women Voters with us. Okay. Colleagues were led. Sorry. Boats that are full title is just too long for me to keep saying so. I just prefer to see Oh, I got you know, d I is very, very important for us. You know, our organization has historically been older white women. We’ve also always had members of color. But I don’t know that they were always at the forefront. So for us, our work is really centered in two questions and everything that we’re doing, who’s at the table and who should be at the table who’s missing. So I think starting all of our conversation in the efforts that we’re doing with those two questions allows us to center on our work in diversity, equity inclusion and also use our power as, um, people who have had access to legislator stakeholders, et cetera. How did we use our power and in a way that allows access of inclusivity for more people. So I think that that is really important and something that DEA diversity and inclusion work. It’s hard just versus It’s not easy, you know it. It gets very uncomfortable a lot of times when you’re talking about privilege, patriarchy and all of the talk about as it relates to d I. But it’s so important to get comfortable being uncomfortable and having these conversations that the only way I think that we can start to build a bridge towards unifying Um, CA music is at the end of the day, we may be politically, but at the end of the day, we all share many of the very same values which is historically united this country. Like right now we’re in the midst of the Corona virus. The Corona virus doesn’t care where the Republican Democrat black, white, female male does. It doesn’t matter. I’m at the end of the day, we all have to make sure that we’re doing what we can to be safe as individuals. But also our actions greatly impact the people around us. So it’s more of a It’s more of a community mindset that’s required or to tap this down. So I know that that’s like a little offset. All shoot from what we’re talking about. But I think it all placed together in some way, shape or form.

[00:42:30.65] spk_1:
Okay, um, Gloria about for moms rising. And how do you ensure that your communications are equitable on dhe? Non harmful?

[00:43:35.32] spk_4:
Well, Mom’s Rising has very intentionally built an organization that tries to bring different voices to the table. We are intersectional and we are multi issue, and so from our staff were very bad person, many, many different ways, and from the way that we choose which issues to work on, we also take into consideration which these are being impacted and how we communicate about those and then the way that we campaign is that our campaigns are always overlap. And so there is different people within the organization as well as a partner policy partners from different issue areas. They help us that our issues and the way that we communicate with them to make sure that you know you are we’re not communicating in a way that that that excludes communities, reinforces bad stereotype pipes and raises red flags, make make, make people feel bad ways that we don’t understand because of where we individuals. Campaigners. No. So everything we do is very thoroughly betters through different filters.

[00:43:48.70] spk_1:
Okay, so you re vetting. Yeah, please. Yeah, so, you know,

[00:44:55.97] spk_3:
I totally agree with what glorious said. I think that’s really important because the league is also multi issue and kind of has that you have to compete when you multiple issues. You sometimes have toe think a little differently about how you present yourself on each issue in orderto not negatively impact the whole set of what you’re trying to accomplish. And so for us and the communication speaks, I’m expressly is thinking about whether it’s appropriate who’s the appropriate messenger when we’re communicating so Is it appropriate for the league to be a leader in this space, or do we need to take a step back and be a supporter? So I think that’s one of the things that’s very important for us. Communication wise is we’re figuring out what is what space are we gonna take up in the communication in space and how we’re gonna communicate this issue and then the other pieces Who’s talking? Who is the person that we’re putting in front actually speak about a particular issue and is, Is that the right person? And are they speaking from the lens that’s most appropriate for that particular issue that’s gonna be impacted most as a result of what you’re saying or doing? So I think that’s very important. With Gloria lifted up

[00:46:14.78] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships, the world runs on them. We know this turn to is led by former journalists, so you’re going to get their help building relationships with journalists. They’ve been there, they know how to do it. They know what the pitfalls are and they know how to do it wrong so they will steer you to the right way to build relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field. They specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got but loads more time for people powered movements with Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. How do you manage the conflicting issues? If you know, I guess it’s because there are issues where you have a large constituency on one side of one issue. But something else may seem contrary to that to that large constituency. A different issue that you’re taking a stand on Is that Is that my understanding? Right when you say, you know, potential issue conflict?

[00:46:51.33] spk_3:
Well, when you have a 500,000 members and supporters and you’re in every congressional district, everybody can agree on on how to approach an issue. But what grounds? The league is our mission. Our mission is to empower voters and democracy. Power people defend democracy. So I think as long as you stay rooted in what your chin values statement is that you can find some reconciliation across, you know the most seemingly divergent issues Okay,

[00:46:58.68] spk_1:
climate change That I think would probably be a good example. I was just

[00:47:11.43] spk_4:
I was I was gonna add, okay, that just to step back a little bit. The one thing that I am super super proud of, um, is that a toll east for progressives? I think that we’re actually pretty consistent in about our agreement on your shoes. We may have different levels of intensity and what we agree with, but I think they’re very few conflicts. We may not agree on how to get somewhere, but we all agree on where we want to go. Okay, So in that way, I rather feel, at least from Mom’s rising standpoint, we rarely get. I can’t even think of a single instance where we have conflicts because we’re not agreeing with each other or with policy partners on the most important thing where we’re heading.

[00:47:45.75] spk_3:
So I think that’s a difference, because are the league is it’s not left or right leaning were kind of way. We have members who are both conservative and liberal. Yeah, have some of that conflict more in that. But I think you’re absolutely right. Do we all want the same things and a healthier, more vibrant democracy. Absolutely. So you have to find some common ground in that space. But we definitely have members who are who want to handle things. One way, versus the other. We have to find common ground.

[00:49:02.57] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s the challenge. I was trying to get it. Yeah, okay. It helps. At least it helps me to think of an example like climate change. You know, some. There are some people who don’t even believe that it’s it’s human impacted. And there are others who think, where decades behind and in our inaction Teoh Teoh, reverse the effects of human induced climate change. So, um, it’s Ah, that’s that’s quite a challenge. Really. So, um Okay, Well, where else? Well, should we go with these people? Powered movement ideas? You you, you to spend a lot more time studying this. So what else should we be talking about? That we haven’t yet. I

[00:49:02.65] spk_4:
would actually love to hear from Selena how the league is dealing with. I’m doing your work remotely.

[00:49:10.59] spk_3:
You guys are already virtual. This is like, No, no sweat for you guys, right? Well, you know,

[00:49:37.30] spk_4:
I mean, we do have, you know, our plans range from virtually all the way down to the grassroots. Right? And I think especially for organizations like your Selena, we share the, um, the common goal this year of border engagements. I am very sorry I opened the door. Family a letter out. I’m

[00:49:43.14] spk_3:
very sorry. Okay.

[00:49:45.25] spk_1:
All right. So, you know, um, terms of remote working, but yeah, but how it relates to this topic of people power.

[00:50:59.86] spk_3:
Yeah. So I think that’s really, really important. We’re definitely so it is one thing to convert toe er teleworking, right? That’s one thing. But when your work is so much advocacy, um, and especially the leaders on the ground who are doing voter registration, which requires you to be on the ground talking to people, you know, that has shifted our work. So one of the examples that we have because we have our people power fair mass campaign, which is basically trying to get redistricting reform for across the country and a positive waste that we don’t have another situation like we had in North Carolina where you’re from, tell me and also and Maryland subs we wanna we wanna make sure that you know people are represented appropriately, but a lot of the states that were working in they have a signature collection campaigns going on right now. So how do you do signature collection when you can’t actually be within three or six feet of people? So now many of our leaks air converting to digital signatures and going through their legislator to make those adjustments that they can still collect signatures and meet that need, et cetera, Our love. We have a lobby core, which is 21 volunteers that goes to the hill every month. Obviously, with the hill being also teleworking, it created what we thought might be a barrier. But now our lobbies are doing virtual coffee meetings on Zoom just like this and having those conversations with legislators, legislative staff and all of those things. So I think that the Corona virus has forced us to do our work in a different way. But it’s also being great to innovate and be creative and do the work that people love just in a different way. So we it’s not perfect. I don’t even want to make you think that this is perfect because it’s definitely not. But I think that there’s a lot of positive energy about doing our work and finding ways to do our work in different ways.

[00:52:27.38] spk_1:
Which, okay, is thinking creatively. I for our for our listeners. And I don’t want to focus just on Mom’s rising and legal women voters us. I want them to recognize how what we’re talking about can be applied by them, how they they, what they need to go back to their CEOs or whatever vice presidents wegner And what kind of like discussion items they need to be putting forward at the organization is not now thinking about in terms of, you know, again, people power revolution is coming. Yeah, you know how how how can our listeners helped create it?

[00:53:21.55] spk_3:
I think just becoming involved, like when you’re talking about people powered anything, it’s really about base building. And for me, the goals of base base building are always to grow. A base of volunteers who have a shared value of some sort and you’re coming together in orderto makes the progressive movement on that. It’s also about leadership, development, communities and constituency who turn out who are players in this issue or what have you and then putting issues to the forefront. So I think that wherever you is, what do you value? What’s important to you? You could be a simple as Hey, there’s a pothole, my street that has been fixed in the last year. Can we come together as a community and really talk with our local election officials about making sure our streets are in a position that’s not gonna record cars or have someone get endangered in some way? So I think it comes down to, as on an individual level, what is important to you. What do you value and finding and connecting with those people? Also, that you something similar? And what do you want to change? What is it that you’re trying to change or that would make your life better? And who were the people who can support you in getting that done?

[00:53:55.15] spk_1:
That’s consistent with what you said down an organization level to the same. You know what? The core values, that’s what that’s what drives all the work on, brings people together finding that commonality around, whether it’s the pothole in the street and the individual level.

[00:54:01.45] spk_3:
Whoever whatever. Here, whatever.

[00:54:08.59] spk_1:
Jim Yeah, Gloria, What? What’s your advice for how people can contribute to this revolution.

[00:55:16.50] spk_4:
Um, I think that right now we’re all sitting in our homes and we’re rethinking the way that we do our work. And even as individuals, we’re rethinking the way that we are doing our activism. You think that a very important message right now for activists personally and for organizations that organize activists and try to recruit and build the base, is that now is not the time to step away. Now, more important than ever, it is important to stand top of the issues, to sign those petitions, to speak up and to share your stories, because I will give you a very, very specific example. Right now, Congress is negotiating, arguing over all of these different critical needs in the Corona virus relief bills. While Mom’s Rising has been on the forefront of trying to influence those negotiations. And the most powerful weapon we have are your stories, people stories, what’s gonna happen to your child care center that has to close down what’s gonna happen to a domestic workers who suddenly don’t have a paycheck? Um, paid family leave. This is something that a signature mounds rising issue. We’ve been working on luck forever ever since. Our founding is one of our signature issues. But now, because of the stories that we have gathered and we’re hearing from our members about the need for pay leave and the fact that if we had had paid leave all this time that the burden of Corona virus would have been much lighter this is something that we’re powerfully bringing to the negotiating table. And we’re actually seeing We’re going on paid leave. So all organizations and all individuals, whatever issues that you’re working on, do not step away, continue to share your stories because those stories have to be brought to the negotiating table for policy. And that’s the only way we’re gonna get the policy that we need.

[00:57:30.53] spk_1:
Okay, We’re gonna leave it there. That’s Ah, quite inspirational. Thank you. That’s Ah, That’s Gloria Pan, Vice President, member engagement, engagement at Mom’s Rising. And also Selena Stewart, senior director of advocacy and litigation. The League of Women voters. Us though Gloria Selena. Thank you very much. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, Tommy. Pleasure and thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 ntc were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us next week. An archive show. I promise you, I’ll pick a winner If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this music is by Scots Dying with me next week for not profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.