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Nonprofit Radio for August 7, 2020: Donor Surveys & People-Powered Movements

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Crystal Mahon & Christian Robillard: Donor Surveys

Make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying. Crystal Mahon and Christian Robillard talk principles, best practices and goal setting. Crystal is with STARS Air Ambulance and Christian is at Beyond The Bake Sale. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)





Celina Stewart & Gloria Pan: People-Powered Movements

This 20NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Celina Stewart from League of Women Voters U.S. and Gloria Pan with MomsRising.





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[00:02:40.44] spk_1:
on welcome tony-martignetti profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Welcome to our first podcast only show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of in Texas itis if you inflamed me with the idea that you missed today’s show Donor surveys. You’ll make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard talk principles. Best practices and goal setting Crystal is with stars, Air ambulance and Christian. Is that beyond the bake sale? This is part of our 20 and TC coverage and people powered movements. This 20 NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Selena Stewart from League of Women Voters. US and Gloria Pan with mom’s rising on tony steak, too. Planned giving accelerator were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is donor surveys. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference and 10 made the excruciating decision to cancel the non profit technology conference. But we are continuing virtually. You’ll get just as much value. We don’t have to all be close to pick the brains of the expert speakers from From N 10. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Go to tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Crystal is manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance and Christian is founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the Bake Sale. Crystal Christian. Welcome. Welcome to non profit radio,

[00:02:44.19] spk_2:

[00:02:45.00] spk_0:
Thanks, tony. Great to be here.

[00:02:46.42] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure to have both of you. You are both in ah, in Canada. Crystal. You are in Alberta and Christian. Remind me where you are.

[00:02:55.54] spk_0:
I’m in Ah, beautiful, Sunny Ottawa, Ontario.

[00:03:00.02] spk_1:
Ottawa. No other capital? Yes, in

[00:03:01.23] spk_0:
your nation’s capital. Not be not be disputed with Toronto. Who likes to think that the capital

[00:03:29.66] spk_1:
I know well and many Americans think it’s either Montreal with Toronto? Yes, but, uh, Ottawa Capital. All right. I’m glad to know that you’re both well and safe. Um, and glad to have you both with us. Thanks. Um, we’re talking about donor surveys. Your your NTC topic is ah, Dorner surveys your untapped data goldmine Crystal. Why are surveys a data goldmine?

[00:03:45.11] spk_2:
Well, we have the fortunate launching a survey. We’ve never done one prior to 2016. And when we did it, we were amazed at what we found. So we learned a lot about our donors. Education preferences. We made money, like, usually made that on that. And I’ll talk about. We actually ended up learning a lot about I’m getting prospects. And turns out that there were a lot of donors that we had no idea name Justin there will ever interested in the will. So there was a lot of revenue like hidden revenue that we were finally getting access to you. So that’s are where that line is moving your wits, but it’s preparing to you.

[00:04:23.61] spk_1:
Interesting. I’m looking forward to drilling into that more because I didn’t plan to giving fundraising as a consultant on sometimes asked by clients about doing surveys. So I’m interested in what you’re doing as well. Um, and and you’re getting gifts. You said you’ve made money back from them. So people do send you gifts of cash along with their surveys.

[00:04:53.69] spk_2:
Yes. Like this year we get. Because last year, 2019 are stars. Allies there, maybe $300,000 And that all the you people have been found for giving what? We’re looking at dollars. So it’s you cannot do a survey to seem like you. Point?

[00:04:54.30] spk_1:
Yeah. Did you say billions? With a B?

[00:04:57.21] spk_2:
No millions and

[00:05:08.78] spk_1:
millions. Okay, the audio is not perfect, so it almost sounded billions. So I want to be sure, because I’m listeners have the same question. Okay, Millions, millions is still very, very good. Um, Christian? Anything you want to head to about Why these air Ah, such a gold mine for non profits.

[00:05:14.81] spk_0:
I mean, besides the fact that you’re using data, obviously, to reinforce certain decisions and Teoh highlight certain wealth elements, I would say in terms of your sponsorship potential, I know a lot of organizations are looking more so into the corporate sponsorship corporate engagement side of things. And I think with your donor surveys, you could really reveal a lot around where people are working there levels in terms of positions within a certain company or organization. And that can lead you down some interesting pass from a corporate sponsorship perspective.

[00:06:05.94] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, your, um your description of the workshop said that make the most of the donors you already have. And it sounds like you both obviously are going there. Is there anything you want to add about sussing out the value that’s in your that you don’t know? You have among your current donors?

[00:06:31.20] spk_2:
Well, from our perspective, like it’s given us an opportunity to get to know our donors better in terms of what? What are they actually interested in learning about the organization or why are they choosing given that allows us to tailor messages, just be a lot more personal with them and act like we really know that was supposed to them just being a number. This is an opportunity to really cultivate that relationship and just continue bring them on war.

[00:06:41.08] spk_1:
Okay, um, is most of your content in the workshop around as practices for surveys? Is that what we’re gonna be exploring? Mostly

[00:07:05.94] spk_2:
Christian feel free to jump in and say that we were looking a lot of fast. Her best practice, then also, case studies. People would have some tangible examples how to actually launch one with consider. And what would actually need to do once they got

[00:07:24.46] spk_1:
OK? All right, well, let’s, um let’s start with, Like, where? Where do you get started? Who, Who who were the best people to send surveys to our What types of information are are you finding our most responded to or what types of questions are most responded to? How can you help us sort of frame? Ah ah, an outline of what we were to get started.

[00:07:55.62] spk_2:
Well, Christian and I talked a lot about building the proper spoke of your surveys of figuring out. Why exactly are you? What do you try to find out? And once, you kind of I guess you were down exactly what you’re trying to learn, what you’re trying to cheat, That sort of helping bigger. You need to actually reach up to what? The audience. You need to know that before.

[00:08:06.93] spk_1:
Okay, So, starting with your goals, what was the purpose of the darn thing? Yes. Okay. Okay. Um Christian. You want to jump in around, you know it’s starting to get this process started.

[00:08:15.29] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as crystal, I were kind of building this piece at whether you’re talking about more of a philanthropic, focus for your surveying or whether you’re talking about more of a corporate sponsorship focus of it. You only want to ask yourself, I never different questions before you even get going things around. What do you ultimately want to know about your donor base? Or about this particular audience population that you’re ultimately looking for? More information on? Why are you doing this in the first place? Is, Is this more responsive? Isn’t it more of a proactive type surveyed that explore new avenues? Would you ultimately need to know? I think that’s an important element to focus on Is not asking everything but asking the right things? Who do you need to ask? So who is the actual population that you’re targeting at the end of the day? What would you do with the information? So don’t just collect information for information, say not that that’s not important. But what’s the actual actionable pieces for that? And how are you gonna protect that information? I think with today’s sensitivities around around data privacy, it’s really important for charities and nonprofits to Stuart that data as they would any type of gift that they ultimately get.

[00:09:27.71] spk_1:
Yeah, in terms of the data stewardship that that may constrain what you asked as well, because now you have, ah, conceivably a higher level of security that you need to maintain

[00:09:32.60] spk_0:
absolutely tony and even just in terms of sensitivities, of phrasing, certain questions, and that it’s important for you to think about how you phrase certain things and how intimate your ultimately getting. And if you do get that intimate, like you said, how do you protect that data? But also, what’s the purpose for collecting that particular piece of data side from? Well, it might be a nice toe have someday, instead of this actually contributes towards our bottom line.

[00:10:00.13] spk_1:
You’re doing surveys around corporate sponsorship, right? That’s the example you mentioned. So you’re getting to know where people work so that you might use that information for potential sponsorships.

[00:11:02.31] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, when you look at sponsorship, ultimately it it’s very much a business transaction. If you look at how Forbes just define sponsorship. It’s very much the cash and in kind fee paid to a property, a property being whether it’s ah terrible run or some type of adventure conference in this case, um, in return for access to the exploitable commercial potential associate without property. So anything of any other type of exploitable commercial potential, which is the most buzzer and definition you possibly could. If you think of any type of advertising medium, whether it’s TV, radio print, you want to know ultimately cruising your audience. And one of the best and most effective ways to do that is to conduct some type of survey to really tease out who are some of your very specific or niche audiences. Cannabis a niche. So it’s a bit of a cringe for for us up here in the North. But, uh, having a survey to really tease out who are who’s in your audience. And some of the more behavioral psychographic demographic features of that audience are particularly important, toe have to really make a compelling case toe corporations looking to use sponsorship with your organization,

[00:11:20.18] spk_1:
the, um what four matter using Christian crystal, I’m gonna ask you the same thing shortly. What? How are these offered to people?

[00:11:28.33] spk_0:
Yeah, so we so in the experience of I’ve high, we usually use ah surveymonkey survey of some kind that allows for a lot of cross top analysis to be able to say that people who are in between the ages of 18 and 29 this particular set of income, they have these particular purchase patterns. They care about your cause, toe ends degree. They, um, are engaged with your cause or with your property and whether it’s through social media or through certain print advertisements or whatever that might be. And we usually collect around 30 plus data points on all of those on all those elements, ranging from again behavioral to the demographic to psychographic Teoh. Some very pointed, specific questions around the relationship between your cause and the affinity for a certain corporation based on that based on not caring for that cause.

[00:12:39.89] spk_1:
Yeah. So you said collecting around 30 data points, does that? Does that mean a survey would have that many questions? Absolutely. Okay, now I’ve heard from guests in the past. May have even been ntc guests. Not this year, but, you know, the optimal number of questions for surveys like five or six or so and people bailout beyond that point.

[00:13:58.37] spk_0:
Yeah, and and usually before I had actually sent out a survey of that magnitude, I would agree with you. Tony and I agree with most. I think that the important differentiators one is that you frame it as it’s very much for improving the relationships and the ability for the cause properties, whether that’s your run, your gala, whatever that might be to raise money and usually the audience that you’re setting. That, too, is very receptive to that. I think you want to frame it also as your only collecting the most important of information. And you’re also looking at ah again like you’re incentivizing in some way, shape or form. So usually when you tailor it with some type of incentive Buta $50 gift card opportunity Teoh win something like that. Usually people a lot more or a lot more receptive. And in the time that we’ve done surveys, whether it’s in my my past days, consulting in the space or now doing a lot of work with charities nonprofits, we sent it to tens of thousands of respondents and get a pretty a pretty strong response rate and a really nominal, if negligible, amount of an unsubscribe rates. So people are not un subscribing from getting those questions, and in fact, they’re answering a lot of them and an important element, as well as making them optional. So not forcing people to house to fill out certain pieces but giving them the freedom to answer whatever questions they feel compelled to. But when you’re doing it for the cause, people are pretty are pretty compelled to respond to those states of questions.

[00:14:01.77] spk_1:
Okay, Crystal, how about you? What? What format are your service offered in?

[00:14:31.04] spk_2:
Did you both offline and online? So our donor base tends to skew a little bit older, though for us, a physical mailing is absolutely I’m only deals online, burgeon for, I guess, other parts of our donor base that are different. The graphical, just based on that person’s preference, is giving them that opportunity. But what we did find is that in terms of our offline responses, we had a lower was off rate of responses to the survey, but exponentially more donations coming through offline as online and then for online responses of the online certainly had a lot more responses to be online. Survey. There are fewer donations, so I found that there was an inverse relationship there about that very thing.

[00:15:41.08] spk_1:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness This is still a front burner issue. You have got to get your loan forgiveness application in. Wegner has the info you need. Their latest free wagon are explains the state of P P P Loan forgiveness. What is forgivable? What documentation do you need? How to work with your lender? Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource Is and recorded events. Now back to donor surveys with Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Do you, ah, subscribe to the same opinion about the length that that could be up to 30 questions? In a survey, a ZX Christian was saying,

[00:16:17.66] spk_2:
We personally have a practice of you tiki bars between five and 10 questions. And sometimes we even Taylor that we know that some of these interested in particular programs we might take out a certain question. But in something else related specifically to them, for their isn’t variability in the surveys, but generally quite short, but I do agree with Christian for sure in terms of really framing the purpose of the survey and you to the questions around this is the whole purpose of this is to build a relationship with them and better serve them and get to know them better. And I think that really prince, And then you also

[00:16:23.41] spk_1:
just gonna ask about incentivizing, Okay? Something similar, Like drawing for a gift card. Something like that.

[00:16:33.91] spk_2:
Yeah. We get a star’s prize package. We wanted to do something about these decisions. You couldn’t get something but elsewhere. So yeah, way start for merchandise. So that’s

[00:17:18.04] spk_1:
okay. I’m gonna thank Christian for not having a good, uh, good video appearance because, you know, I’ve done 10 of these today, and they’re all gonna be all the video’s gonna be preserved. Except this one. Because Christian, um, as a very extreme background is really just a silhouette ahead with headphones. Really? Little I can see. But I’m grateful because my background just fell. I have a little tony, I have a tony-martignetti. You watched other of these videos which you’re gonna be available. This tony-martignetti non profit radio. So the easel you know, what’s that for? A form core, you know, sign. And it was behind me. It was, and it just fell while Crystal was talking. So thank you, Christian.

[00:17:29.66] spk_0:
It was just so surprised that you could ask 30 questions on a survey and get some type of degree of response.

[00:17:38.43] spk_1:
Only it shook my house that I’m

[00:17:40.42] spk_0:
30 data points. What madness is this? I’m

[00:17:58.70] spk_1:
so a gas man. Yes. And then also the fact that you the two of you disagree. Um, all right, so but I’m shouting myself, calling myself out as having a flimsy background lasted through. And that’s through, like, seven hours of this. I

[00:17:58.85] spk_0:
love it. Also, we don’t necessarily disagree, but I think different surveys serve their different purposes. So I agree with Crystal that in that particular case, you only need descends. One that has 5 to 10 questions rise in this case, your public sending it to in a slot strip case, you’re probably sending it to a larger population of people. And you only need a certain amount of people to fill it out.

[00:18:18.73] spk_1:
Crystal, I had asked you, and you probably answered, but I got distracted by my collapsing background. What? What kinds of incentives do you offer?

[00:18:40.21] spk_2:
We offer stars prize pack. So it’s stars over two nights that we want to talk or something a little bit different other than my gift card that they could get through any other. Yeah, it’s so different Angle

[00:19:00.18] spk_1:
personalized two stars. Okay, Okay, Um, now, was yours specifically Ah, planned giving survey, or did you just have a couple of planned giving questions? And that’s where you discovered this data goldmine of future gift. And all the wheels that you found out that you’re in was

[00:19:27.84] spk_2:
it was it was not specific to plan giving, so it was more just a general survey. And then we did have a question about plan giving and that we were stunned. But subsequent years we kept asking mad, and right now we’re sort of in the middle of doing that whole. I’m giving strategy and trying to really build that out. Now that we know that there is this whole core people that are interested in this. So it’s really opened up the water opportunities President organization after all.

[00:19:43.23] spk_1:
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. All right. So you learned from the first time this is you’re in a lot more estates than you had. Any idea? Um, let’s let’s talk about some more good practices for surveys. Crystal, is there something you can one of two things you want to recommend and then we’ll come toe go back to Christian.

[00:19:53.81] spk_2:
Yeah, One of my major things is that if you’ve been asked a question, you have to know where you’re going to do with that data after the fact that you were people just ask the question to ask a question for whatever reason. But then they don’t action. Anything out of it to me is very important that if our donors are gonna spend the time actually breathe through your survey, respond, mail it in or submitted online, that we actually do something that that information is the weather bats killer. It’s a messaging or changing communication preferences or whatever it is you’re asking us to do, you were tell has I think that’s so important that you have to have all a plan once these losses come back. And what are we gonna do with them? Who was going to take action? How are we gonna reason with this? How are we going to use information.

[00:21:15.77] spk_1:
I think of date of birth is as a good example of that. If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna develop a plan to congratulate someone for their birth on their birthday each year, then that could be a valuable data point. Um, but if you just, you know, if you’re just asking because you you don’t have a purpose, you just interested in what their ages? For some vague reason, then there’s no there’s no value in asking. And if it is just to follow up, if it’s just to know their you know when you want to send a card, maybe you don’t need the year. Maybe just need the day in the month. But if there’s value to your database for knowing their age and you would ask for a year

[00:21:23.72] spk_2:
exactly how he felt down, what do we need to know? I really asking

[00:21:30.90] spk_1:
why, Kristen, you have a best practice you want to share.

[00:21:33.84] spk_0:
Yeah, I would say Consider the not just the population size that you’re not just the population that you’re serving, but also the representative makeup. So if you know that your database is predominantly on more, the senior side of things, but you’re getting a disproportion amount of more individuals who are on the younger side of things. In terms of respondents, that’s something important that you have to take into account. So the makeup of the actual population is is more important. I would argue that the amount of responses you could get a crazy amount of responses. But if it doesn’t represent the population that you’re serving and that who make up your donors, it’s it’s not gonna be valuable dated to you. I remember one time we had a ZX instance for an organization wanted Teoh do a survey for sponsor purposes, and in other cases, it’s been from or donor specific, like, I will just put it on on Facebook or Twitter or something like that. It’s not necessarily your population is not necessarily the group that you’re looking that you’re actively engaged with a fundraising perspective. You get information to the otherwise and then obviously reflect on that and use that. But be really clear about the breakdown that you need to have in order to make the information, actually, representative of the rest of your database,

[00:22:47.24] spk_1:
Um, what kind of response rates what’s what’s a decent response rate to, ah to a survey?

[00:23:06.51] spk_0:
I think it depends what type of server you’re sending. I will let Crystal speak to this more, but I’d say if it’s philanthropic. Eikenberry on the sponsorship side of things you’re looking for a response rate that coincides with the 95% confidence interval with a 5% margin of error. Let’s get market data to calculate that there’s a bunch of big captain complicated formulas that we probably have all repressed from our time in. In statistics Citizen that in university there’s ah company called Surveymonkey that actually has a calculator for its. If you go to the Surveymonkey website, you can actually just plug in a what the sample side of what the actual size of the database you’re sending into. And you can plug in what confidence interval that you want. And then what margin of error that you’d like, and it will pump out a number of a minimum that you need to have. I would say that’s a good starting point. But again, as I talked about before, make sure you have the representative break up breakdown of, ah, who’s actually within your audience reflected in the survey results and don’t have it disproportionately skewed towards a particular demographic that might be just more inclined. Teoh, respond to surveys.

[00:24:25.04] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, Crystal, Anything you want to add about the confidence, it’s different, but yeah, I withdraw that. That doesn’t make sense for you because you’re doing individual philanthropic surveys. So each response you get is valuable. You find out that someone is interested in planned giving already, has you in their will. That one response has has great value. Yes. Okay.

[00:24:39.74] spk_2:
Our purpose of our surveys a little bit different. We don’t worry so much about that, but I actually meeting how like that in your mind. Reaching out to you?

[00:24:44.24] spk_1:
What? What kind of response rate to use for the crystal is still you know, these things? Things take time and you’re doing Some of them are offline. So there’s postage and printing, et cetera. What kind of response rate do you consider good for? For a NH effort like that

[00:25:40.43] spk_2:
in terms of financial reform? Three. So don’t verify that for us, a response to the survey doesn’t necessarily mean a gift, and it gets to the survey, doesn’t necessarily mean that they responded to a number. Yes, we usually eight or 86%. But in terms of actual response to the survey, we’ve seen his lower 2% for the highest 7% a year of channel. So either way, like we have, quite like we have quite a large database. So any of you to be So get this information, your father.

[00:25:42.89] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, for your online surveys. Crystal, are you using surveymonkey? Also, did you say

[00:25:48.80] spk_2:
use a couple leased surveymonkey last year? It is very user friendly. What? I would caution people are always print about whatever price package designed for because, like you discussed for our surveys a big focuses financial tournament. So we needed to price plan that involved being able to redirect right from surveymonkey page to our donation form. So you had to be really mindful things like that. So in some of the basic packages, they don’t write redirect donation form in that you can’t Do you have a really negatively impact your

[00:26:27.94] spk_1:
Is there another online tool that you like? Also you?

[00:26:52.64] spk_2:
I used Teoh from cold response. Ter. We’ve there be start a sweetener somewhere in Europe, and they were very good, though there are some limitations is well with them in terms of what the packages offer. But bring out we’re using serving Look, you know what was sending out like, for example, looking at surveys. This any surveymonkey already of our to be rich 8th 1 So that’s what we’re using.

[00:26:56.04] spk_1:
Okay, how about you, Christian? Is there another one besides Surveymonkey that you could recommend?

[00:27:22.01] spk_0:
I I think it just depends on what you’re looking for. A tony. So if you’re looking for a lot of, let’s say, more qualitative answers, I’d say even a Google form would would be more than would be more than acceptable. It really just depends on what functionality want to get out of. I used every monkey pretty religiously, just cause it’s like Crystal said. It’s very user friendly. It has the functionality that I need, and it’s and it’s relatively reasonable in terms of in terms of price point for what you get. It’s also gonna depend, and it’s up to you to do due diligence on what types of functionality you need. You need to integrate with your database for other software. Do you need certain functionality. Do you actually know how to use a lot of those things? Is there gonna be support and again, like what? What are they going to do with your data? Like, do they have access to your data? Whether it’s metadata or otherwise, Are there other rules of jurisdictions you have to consider with that data privacy? So I use every monkey by lots of considerations to make.

[00:28:04.85] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. Thank you. And Kristen wanted to, uh why don’t you lead us out with some Take us out with some, I guess. Motivation. Closing thoughts like to end with?

[00:28:05.97] spk_0:
Absolutely, I would say from a sponsor perspective, whether you’re a large organization or small organization, the riches during the niches. So to do good sponsorship, it requires good data, and it requires those 30 plus data points. But whether you’re a big group or a small group, you can compete at the same scale, especially with the amount of money that’s being spent on cost sponsorship over $2 million a worldwide, which is no small amount of money. That’s that you can get access you whether you’re $100,000 a year, order a $1,000,000 plus requires good data. So make sure you’re collecting good data. Make sure you’re clear on what do you want to use your information for? And, uh, not just the diligent in ah, making training step, but the data is actually protected.

[00:28:50.64] spk_1:
Okay, um, I was I was I was gonna let Christian end, But since the two of you have such divergent purposes, which is fabulous for it’s great for a discussion Divergent purposes around your surveys. Crystal, why don’t you take us out on the on the filling topic? The individual donor side?

[00:29:51.64] spk_2:
Yes. So play for discussing. Don’t be afraid to fundraise just because survey doesn’t mean that you can’t make money off of it. People are supporting you enough that they’re willing to fill out the remainder onto you. They may be going to donators alone, and then I’ll help without it said you have to know why you do what you do with that information. It’s really important in terms of respecting your door time and back. That there giving you this information, you need to be able to use it and sort properly and safely. And then last may I just say please, please please test your survey before you actually sending out Senator One other part fans are other people that are not in the midst of building the surveys that you can find out. You phrase things appropriately. You’re actually wanting what you want to functionality is appropriate. I think that’s just so we don’t have one chance of finding out. So just make sure that

[00:30:01.59] spk_1:
okay, thank you very much. That’s Crystal Mahan, manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance. And with her is Christian Rubber Yard founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the bake sale crystals in Alberta. And ah, I’m sorry, Crystal. Did I just say Crystal? Yeah.

[00:30:21.02] spk_2:
You know, yesterday

[00:30:23.48] spk_1:
I say, Chris Christie, Mr Just all I know is in Alberta,

[00:30:25.30] spk_0:
you know, we don’t make it easy on your tony

[00:30:36.35] spk_1:
on, and I got through 25 minutes. So well, and I know it’s a lackluster host. I’m sorry. This is stuck with in the Christians in the capital city of Ottawa. Thank you so much, Christian Crystal. Thank you very

[00:30:40.72] spk_0:
much. Thanks, tony.

[00:33:31.93] spk_1:
Thanks to you for being with joining martignetti non profit radio coverage off 20 NTC, the non profit technology conference Responsive at the conference by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain will get you a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us now. Time for Tony’s Take two. I am still very proud to announce the launch of planned giving accelerator. This is a yearlong membership community that is going to get your planned giving program started. I’m going to give you exclusive webinars Exclusive podcasts. Yes, beyond tony-martignetti non profit radio, there’s gonna be the exclusive podcast for accelerator members. Small group asked me anything. Sessions over Zoom I’ll have Resource is like templates and checklists. All of this is to get your planned giving program started. You’ll join for a year. I will keep you filled with exclusive content, and you will get your program started. I promise I will make planned giving easy, accessible and affordable. You can check out all the information at planned giving accelerator dot com. If you may not be quite ready for membership, you don’t want to look at that quite yet. You just want to dip your toes in the water. I have a free how to guide about getting your planned giving program started to see a theme. Here, you see, you see the consistency running through here. This is not This is not accidental. Please, please the free how to guide you Download that also at planned giving accelerator dot com, that is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for people powered movements. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference. Of course, the conference was canceled, but we are persevering. Virtually sponsored. A 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. Selena is senior director of advocacy and litigation at League of Women Voters. US. And Gloria is vice president for member engagement at Mom’s Rising Celina. Gloria. Welcome. Hello. I’m glad we were able to put this virtually. It’s good to see both of you. Um and I’m glad to know that you each well and safe and in either D. C or just outside D. C. Selena, you’re in d. C and Gloria. Where you outside Washington Gloria

[00:33:46.60] spk_4:
I am actually near Dulles Airport. So, you know, some people commute from here, but because Mom’s rising is a virtual organization, I don’t. And so when people ask me for lunch, I’m always like, Okay, it takes a little bit more planning. I have to bend. I have to get my body injustices.

[00:34:18.24] spk_1:
Okay, Um, you’re NTC Topic is a revolution is coming. Top tactics, build people powered movements. Um, Selena, would you get us started with this? What? What was the need for the session?

[00:35:27.88] spk_3:
Well, I think, um, I think one of the things is right now it’s all about people power. You know, there’s everything is so politicized right now, and I think that there is often a conversation about how people are involved with what government actually represents or what the government is representing. So I think that that’s really, really important. Um, we also saw, like, a 2018 mawr voter turnout, more voters turning out to vote and things like that. So I think that that also is a part of us people conversation like what is compelling people to participate, even mawr, or at a greater extent in their democracy. But all of these things kind of work together to figure out. Not only do we have people engaged now, but what is important. What just community is more people become engaged. How does how does our definition of our community and communities in general changes? More people are included and participating all of those things. So I think that we’re at a very interesting and crucial moment in time. And so people powered and people involved movement. It’s it’s, I think it’s always happen. But it’s just a coin phrase. I think that’s especially prevalent right now.

[00:35:56.69] spk_1:
Good, Gloria, even though participation is is very high, were also largely polarized. So how do we overcome the opposite ends of the spectrum to tryto bring people together and and organize?

[00:36:01.33] spk_4:
Are you talking about everyone or are you talking about voters?

[00:36:17.39] spk_1:
Uh, well, I’m talking about the country. I don’t know. I don’t know whether I don’t know where the people are voting, but I’m talking about our political polarization. I don’t know if they’re necessarily voting. I

[00:36:20.97] spk_3:
I talked about voting, so I probably threw it off a little bit. Glory. They act like I’m asking for

[00:37:19.89] spk_4:
complication only because, like some of the most talented and I think unifying on politicians in recent memory. For example, Barack Obama did not succeed in unifying all of us, right? So there are some segments of our citizenry that will just not do it. We will not be able to come together with them. But I think that for, um, people who really do want the best for our country and who are open minded enough, Teoh want to hear from other people who have different, you know, slightly different ways of looking at the world. It is possible to do it, and that goes back to what Selena was saying about people powered movements. I think that one of the reasons why that’s become more more of a catchphrase is that you know, we are in an era of information overload. We are in an era of polarization and not believing everything that we’re seeing on the Internet and in the news. And so being able to actually really connect with people on the ground, in person, over the phone, but directly and not going through the filter of social media or news movements is it’s increasingly important, and that will be one of the main channels for us to unify as many people as possible.

[00:38:16.42] spk_1:
So we’re talking about creating these both online and offline, right? Um, people powered people, centred movements. Um, how, Gloria, how do we want nonprofits to think about or what we need to think about in terms of doing this, organizing, creating these these movements,

[00:39:11.07] spk_4:
I’m First of all, it’s about inclusivity. Okay, So, um, at least from where we set Mom’s rising and me speaking on behalf of Monster Rising right now, we want to make sure that whatever we do and if it’s the most people and harms no one at all, if possible. So that’s one part of it. How we speak, how we communicate to make sure that what we’re speaking and how we communicate does not reinforce add stereotypes that creates divisions. Okay, that’s one way, another way, not way. But another thing to consider are also the tools that we’re using. Are we using your people are on different kinds of communication tools. Some people only do Facebook. Other people only do on email on dhe. There also is like text messaging there. All of these new community communications goes towards coming on and being on top of the different tools. Superb, warden, Because we need to meet people where they are. Um, because you’re just a couple of thoughts.

[00:39:36.49] spk_1:
Okay. Um so sorry, Selina. So we’re talking about diversity equity inclusion. Let’s drill down into a little bit of, like, what do we What do we need to do around our communications that is more equitable and non harming?

[00:39:57.72] spk_3:
So I think that’s an important question of us. Definitely something that has been injured in the leaks work over the last, I would say five years, but more intentionally over the last two. I’m sorry. I

[00:40:01.52] spk_1:
mean, he’s sorry. Whose work?

[00:42:09.00] spk_3:
The league. I’m sorry. I always refer to the League of Women Voters with us. Okay. Colleagues were led. Sorry. Boats that are full title is just too long for me to keep saying so. I just prefer to see Oh, I got you know, d I is very, very important for us. You know, our organization has historically been older white women. We’ve also always had members of color. But I don’t know that they were always at the forefront. So for us, our work is really centered in two questions and everything that we’re doing, who’s at the table and who should be at the table who’s missing. So I think starting all of our conversation in the efforts that we’re doing with those two questions allows us to center on our work in diversity, equity inclusion and also use our power as, um, people who have had access to legislator stakeholders, et cetera. How did we use our power and in a way that allows access of inclusivity for more people. So I think that that is really important and something that DEA diversity and inclusion work. It’s hard just versus It’s not easy, you know it. It gets very uncomfortable a lot of times when you’re talking about privilege, patriarchy and all of the talk about as it relates to d I. But it’s so important to get comfortable being uncomfortable and having these conversations that the only way I think that we can start to build a bridge towards unifying Um, CA music is at the end of the day, we may be politically, but at the end of the day, we all share many of the very same values which is historically united this country. Like right now we’re in the midst of the Corona virus. The Corona virus doesn’t care where the Republican Democrat black, white, female male does. It doesn’t matter. I’m at the end of the day, we all have to make sure that we’re doing what we can to be safe as individuals. But also our actions greatly impact the people around us. So it’s more of a It’s more of a community mindset that’s required or to tap this down. So I know that that’s like a little offset. All shoot from what we’re talking about. But I think it all placed together in some way, shape or form.

[00:42:30.65] spk_1:
Okay, um, Gloria about for moms rising. And how do you ensure that your communications are equitable on dhe? Non harmful?

[00:43:35.32] spk_4:
Well, Mom’s Rising has very intentionally built an organization that tries to bring different voices to the table. We are intersectional and we are multi issue, and so from our staff were very bad person, many, many different ways, and from the way that we choose which issues to work on, we also take into consideration which these are being impacted and how we communicate about those and then the way that we campaign is that our campaigns are always overlap. And so there is different people within the organization as well as a partner policy partners from different issue areas. They help us that our issues and the way that we communicate with them to make sure that you know you are we’re not communicating in a way that that that excludes communities, reinforces bad stereotype pipes and raises red flags, make make, make people feel bad ways that we don’t understand because of where we individuals. Campaigners. No. So everything we do is very thoroughly betters through different filters.

[00:43:48.70] spk_1:
Okay, so you re vetting. Yeah, please. Yeah, so, you know,

[00:44:55.97] spk_3:
I totally agree with what glorious said. I think that’s really important because the league is also multi issue and kind of has that you have to compete when you multiple issues. You sometimes have toe think a little differently about how you present yourself on each issue in orderto not negatively impact the whole set of what you’re trying to accomplish. And so for us and the communication speaks, I’m expressly is thinking about whether it’s appropriate who’s the appropriate messenger when we’re communicating so Is it appropriate for the league to be a leader in this space, or do we need to take a step back and be a supporter? So I think that’s one of the things that’s very important for us. Communication wise is we’re figuring out what is what space are we gonna take up in the communication in space and how we’re gonna communicate this issue and then the other pieces Who’s talking? Who is the person that we’re putting in front actually speak about a particular issue and is, Is that the right person? And are they speaking from the lens that’s most appropriate for that particular issue that’s gonna be impacted most as a result of what you’re saying or doing? So I think that’s very important. With Gloria lifted up

[00:46:14.78] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships, the world runs on them. We know this turn to is led by former journalists, so you’re going to get their help building relationships with journalists. They’ve been there, they know how to do it. They know what the pitfalls are and they know how to do it wrong so they will steer you to the right way to build relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field. They specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got but loads more time for people powered movements with Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. How do you manage the conflicting issues? If you know, I guess it’s because there are issues where you have a large constituency on one side of one issue. But something else may seem contrary to that to that large constituency. A different issue that you’re taking a stand on Is that Is that my understanding? Right when you say, you know, potential issue conflict?

[00:46:51.33] spk_3:
Well, when you have a 500,000 members and supporters and you’re in every congressional district, everybody can agree on on how to approach an issue. But what grounds? The league is our mission. Our mission is to empower voters and democracy. Power people defend democracy. So I think as long as you stay rooted in what your chin values statement is that you can find some reconciliation across, you know the most seemingly divergent issues Okay,

[00:46:58.68] spk_1:
climate change That I think would probably be a good example. I was just

[00:47:11.43] spk_4:
I was I was gonna add, okay, that just to step back a little bit. The one thing that I am super super proud of, um, is that a toll east for progressives? I think that we’re actually pretty consistent in about our agreement on your shoes. We may have different levels of intensity and what we agree with, but I think they’re very few conflicts. We may not agree on how to get somewhere, but we all agree on where we want to go. Okay, So in that way, I rather feel, at least from Mom’s rising standpoint, we rarely get. I can’t even think of a single instance where we have conflicts because we’re not agreeing with each other or with policy partners on the most important thing where we’re heading.

[00:47:45.75] spk_3:
So I think that’s a difference, because are the league is it’s not left or right leaning were kind of way. We have members who are both conservative and liberal. Yeah, have some of that conflict more in that. But I think you’re absolutely right. Do we all want the same things and a healthier, more vibrant democracy. Absolutely. So you have to find some common ground in that space. But we definitely have members who are who want to handle things. One way, versus the other. We have to find common ground.

[00:49:02.57] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s the challenge. I was trying to get it. Yeah, okay. It helps. At least it helps me to think of an example like climate change. You know, some. There are some people who don’t even believe that it’s it’s human impacted. And there are others who think, where decades behind and in our inaction Teoh Teoh, reverse the effects of human induced climate change. So, um, it’s Ah, that’s that’s quite a challenge. Really. So, um Okay, Well, where else? Well, should we go with these people? Powered movement ideas? You you, you to spend a lot more time studying this. So what else should we be talking about? That we haven’t yet. I

[00:49:02.65] spk_4:
would actually love to hear from Selena how the league is dealing with. I’m doing your work remotely.

[00:49:10.59] spk_3:
You guys are already virtual. This is like, No, no sweat for you guys, right? Well, you know,

[00:49:37.30] spk_4:
I mean, we do have, you know, our plans range from virtually all the way down to the grassroots. Right? And I think especially for organizations like your Selena, we share the, um, the common goal this year of border engagements. I am very sorry I opened the door. Family a letter out. I’m

[00:49:43.14] spk_3:
very sorry. Okay.

[00:49:45.25] spk_1:
All right. So, you know, um, terms of remote working, but yeah, but how it relates to this topic of people power.

[00:50:59.86] spk_3:
Yeah. So I think that’s really, really important. We’re definitely so it is one thing to convert toe er teleworking, right? That’s one thing. But when your work is so much advocacy, um, and especially the leaders on the ground who are doing voter registration, which requires you to be on the ground talking to people, you know, that has shifted our work. So one of the examples that we have because we have our people power fair mass campaign, which is basically trying to get redistricting reform for across the country and a positive waste that we don’t have another situation like we had in North Carolina where you’re from, tell me and also and Maryland subs we wanna we wanna make sure that you know people are represented appropriately, but a lot of the states that were working in they have a signature collection campaigns going on right now. So how do you do signature collection when you can’t actually be within three or six feet of people? So now many of our leaks air converting to digital signatures and going through their legislator to make those adjustments that they can still collect signatures and meet that need, et cetera, Our love. We have a lobby core, which is 21 volunteers that goes to the hill every month. Obviously, with the hill being also teleworking, it created what we thought might be a barrier. But now our lobbies are doing virtual coffee meetings on Zoom just like this and having those conversations with legislators, legislative staff and all of those things. So I think that the Corona virus has forced us to do our work in a different way. But it’s also being great to innovate and be creative and do the work that people love just in a different way. So we it’s not perfect. I don’t even want to make you think that this is perfect because it’s definitely not. But I think that there’s a lot of positive energy about doing our work and finding ways to do our work in different ways.

[00:52:27.38] spk_1:
Which, okay, is thinking creatively. I for our for our listeners. And I don’t want to focus just on Mom’s rising and legal women voters us. I want them to recognize how what we’re talking about can be applied by them, how they they, what they need to go back to their CEOs or whatever vice presidents wegner And what kind of like discussion items they need to be putting forward at the organization is not now thinking about in terms of, you know, again, people power revolution is coming. Yeah, you know how how how can our listeners helped create it?

[00:53:21.55] spk_3:
I think just becoming involved, like when you’re talking about people powered anything, it’s really about base building. And for me, the goals of base base building are always to grow. A base of volunteers who have a shared value of some sort and you’re coming together in orderto makes the progressive movement on that. It’s also about leadership, development, communities and constituency who turn out who are players in this issue or what have you and then putting issues to the forefront. So I think that wherever you is, what do you value? What’s important to you? You could be a simple as Hey, there’s a pothole, my street that has been fixed in the last year. Can we come together as a community and really talk with our local election officials about making sure our streets are in a position that’s not gonna record cars or have someone get endangered in some way? So I think it comes down to, as on an individual level, what is important to you. What do you value and finding and connecting with those people? Also, that you something similar? And what do you want to change? What is it that you’re trying to change or that would make your life better? And who were the people who can support you in getting that done?

[00:53:55.15] spk_1:
That’s consistent with what you said down an organization level to the same. You know what? The core values, that’s what that’s what drives all the work on, brings people together finding that commonality around, whether it’s the pothole in the street and the individual level.

[00:54:01.45] spk_3:
Whoever whatever. Here, whatever.

[00:54:08.59] spk_1:
Jim Yeah, Gloria, What? What’s your advice for how people can contribute to this revolution.

[00:55:16.50] spk_4:
Um, I think that right now we’re all sitting in our homes and we’re rethinking the way that we do our work. And even as individuals, we’re rethinking the way that we are doing our activism. You think that a very important message right now for activists personally and for organizations that organize activists and try to recruit and build the base, is that now is not the time to step away. Now, more important than ever, it is important to stand top of the issues, to sign those petitions, to speak up and to share your stories, because I will give you a very, very specific example. Right now, Congress is negotiating, arguing over all of these different critical needs in the Corona virus relief bills. While Mom’s Rising has been on the forefront of trying to influence those negotiations. And the most powerful weapon we have are your stories, people stories, what’s gonna happen to your child care center that has to close down what’s gonna happen to a domestic workers who suddenly don’t have a paycheck? Um, paid family leave. This is something that a signature mounds rising issue. We’ve been working on luck forever ever since. Our founding is one of our signature issues. But now, because of the stories that we have gathered and we’re hearing from our members about the need for pay leave and the fact that if we had had paid leave all this time that the burden of Corona virus would have been much lighter this is something that we’re powerfully bringing to the negotiating table. And we’re actually seeing We’re going on paid leave. So all organizations and all individuals, whatever issues that you’re working on, do not step away, continue to share your stories because those stories have to be brought to the negotiating table for policy. And that’s the only way we’re gonna get the policy that we need.

[00:57:30.53] spk_1:
Okay, We’re gonna leave it there. That’s Ah, quite inspirational. Thank you. That’s Ah, That’s Gloria Pan, Vice President, member engagement, engagement at Mom’s Rising. And also Selena Stewart, senior director of advocacy and litigation. The League of Women voters. Us though Gloria Selena. Thank you very much. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, Tommy. Pleasure and thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 ntc were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us next week. An archive show. I promise you, I’ll pick a winner If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this music is by Scots Dying with me next week for not profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

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[00:00:11.54] spk_0:
Okay. Hello. Welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:02:30.78] spk_1:
profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. I’ll have something to say about George Floyd and racial equity in Tony’s Take Two. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of Ballon O prostatitis if you pissed me off with the idea that you missed today’s show. Don’t get played by the product demo. We’ve all watched in awe as the cursor flies across the screens of a demonstration. Nine months later, we’re scratching our heads. They made it look so easy back then. Get insider tips from Ruben Sing, who’s led hundreds of sales demos. He’s CEO of 1/10 Consulting. This is part of our 20 and TC coverage and Facebook fundraising data. This 20 and D C panel feels your frustration over Facebook not sharing donor data, but they also admonish that you can’t ignore the value of Facebook fundraising. They bust myths, help you overcome the challenges, reveal had a thank and engage your fundraisers and steer clear of pitfalls. There. Nick Byrne from Give Panel and consultants Julia Campbell and Maureen will be off tony Stick to be The change were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Here is don’t get played by the product Demo. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. That’s the 2020 non profit Technology Conference sponsored A 20 D. C by a Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guest now is Ruben Singh. He is CEO of 1/10 Consulting Ruben. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Thanks

[00:02:38.40] spk_2:
so much, tony. Glad to be here.

[00:02:48.54] spk_1:
Pleasure on pleasure. I’m glad that we could work this out virtually. And I know that you are well and safe outside Baltimore in Maryland goods, your topic is don’t get played by the product. Demo, Exclamation mark! If you’re shouting this from a mountaintop, don’t get played by the product. Demo. You’re an insider you’ve done How many? Hundreds of product demos?

[00:03:02.44] spk_2:
Yeah, definitely in in the hundred’s. But the thing is, I’ve been on all sides of it. I have, ah, delivered demos. I have been on the the the customer side or the prospects of receiving demos, and I’ve also coordinated them on behalf of my customers. So I felt like I had a lot of good experience and perhaps some insider tips and tricks toe offer.

[00:03:22.57] spk_1:
Okay, there is There is some deception in these in these demonstrations.

[00:03:40.46] spk_2:
Well, you know, I wouldn’t quite say deception. It’s a spectrum, Really, Uh, some things I have some practices I’ve seen over the years have ranged from you, maybe a little questionable to mislead it, and then some of it has been deceptive. But, you know, honestly, tony Yeah, it’s a little tongue in cheek. I I don’t want to imply, especially the non profit sector, that these that these sales reps are being dishonest in any way. I think most of them have great intentions. But what I really think that there’s a handful of tips and tricks and practices that folks can use to really make sure they’re getting the most out of their demos.

[00:05:07.37] spk_1:
Okay, My my recollection of these as a consult. So I do plan giving consulting. And I’ve gotten some demonstrations for profit from products as a as a as an observer for on the client behalf. Um, and then together we make a decision, but my memory of them is that the cursor is flying around the screen. It started non stop. And then at the very end of a 30 minute demonstration, Do you have any questions? Well, I probably had questions from screen number two about 90 seconds into the thing, but I’m flummoxed now. I’m overwhelmed by the by the movement by by the screens flying around. I can’t remember my question. I I think I had one, but I’m not positive of that. I need to I need a I need a drink. I need to calm down, because the thing just went so damn fast, you know? Um, all right, so that’s that’s probably on the negative end of the spectrum again. Not suggesting deception, but it just goes so fast, you know? Shoot. All right, So where should we start? I mean, you have tips for preparing before the demonstration starts. Yeah,

[00:05:12.64] spk_2:
Well, what you just described is a very common situation. And I would say where the biggest gap is I’ve seen where customers have come back to me and said, You know what? Everything looks so seamless and looks so, uh, you know, so nice and shiny and so quick and easy in the demo. But that’s not the product we ended up with. The biggest reason for that is, in my opinion at least, is how you come into that demo. How prepared you are. If you simply just walk in, let the sales rep do their thing and just, you know, as you and just wait to be wowed and impressed. You’re very likely going to end up disappointed so that one of the first points that I really bring up in, uh, my talk was to present some use cases to really think to yourself, what are the four or five things that we must have on Day one when our new system is live, as well as one of those four or five things that are working terrible right now in our current system, those are the areas we want to focus on, Let’s draft up our use cases. Let’s get very specific examples, not yes or no questions and provide that to the sales rep account executive ahead of time. That way, you’re not really focusing on the fluff. You’re not focusing on the bells and whistles. You can watch that stuff on YouTube. You’re really focusing on those areas that are going to be critical for you to be successful.

[00:06:24.34] spk_1:
Okay, Anything else we should be thinking about as a team before we before we view this extravaganza?

[00:06:30.66] spk_2:
Yeah, definitely the prep that you do up front. You know, I kind of alluded to this that you doing your homework? A lot of these products that you see out there, especially in a non profit technology side. There’s demos available. There’s demos available on their websites. You know, maybe you need to download a white paper. There’s demos available on YouTube. Eso, you know, watch those demos do your homework. Don’t just wait to the demo. You know the facilitated demo before you see it for the first time. That way, you can really understand what the potential pain points are again. Also, there’s many different organizations out there that do independent studies on the various donor management C r M systems eso. So that might be a place as well as other other applications. So do your homework. Understand where the weaknesses are already a prom. That way you can focus on their those areas in the demo. So the team or the pattern I really focus on here is move away from the demo just being a presentation and really try to make it a working session with your sales rep. Eso you’re really working through this scenarios and not just sitting back and watching can presentation.

[00:07:29.58] spk_1:
Okay, Yeah, you’re focusing them on on where your pain points are, what your must haves are and not just getting a generic description of, you know, a lot of times, you know, if you if you end up meeting this, then we have this component and and we have this feature to you might not end up needing it, but I just want to acquaint you with it. You know, that that’s really irrelevant.

[00:07:52.71] spk_2:
That’s right. And so those were some things that you could ahead of time, you know, even during the demonstration itself, there’s certain things that you want to look out for, You know, again, the yes, no questions. Do you have all into your management? Do you have events management? Do you have playing? Giving the answer is always gonna be yes to a Yes. No question. We had a If you can always repurpose, you know, certain functionality to make it fit A particular scenario. So I try to encourage your my profit, remind my customers that’s gonna move away from that and really give a specific example. Hey, you know, I do a lot of events and I sit at the desk during our gala and I need to register people when they come in the door and also have the ability with the check and check out process to enter a new attendee. Show me how I can do that and that that could be one of the use cases that you present ahead of time. So again it gives it gives very specific things. Another thing that I suggest is is be careful about those words of integration and compatibility. Um, because everyone is integrated, you know, especially I deal a lot with Salesforce and everyone claims to be integrated with Salesforce but that integration it could mean anything. It could be a plug and play out that takes 10 minutes. Or it could be, Ah, it could be a separate third party solution that you need with 1/3 party consultant to integrate it. So all that falls within the category of integration. So you want to be very clear when someone says, Oh, yeah, we’re compatible with such and such or were integrated with such and such. What exactly does that mean? And how does it look?

[00:09:57.04] spk_1:
Okay, that’s interesting. Yeah, I don’t think most people know that. They just they say, Oh, it’s integrated. Okay, that’s awesome. It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As Things are moving fast. The Senate passed a bill on paycheck protection program loans that extends the covered period from eight weeks to 24 weeks. You need a place to keep up with everything that we’re being hit with. Financially wegner-C.P.As dot com Quick resource is and blawg now back to don’t get played by the product demo. I should have given you a chance to shout out what? What’s the work at 1/10 Consulting.

[00:10:27.99] spk_2:
Oh, well, we, uh we do everything from strategy we work exclusively with nonprofits. We do strategy, work. We do implementation of C R M. Systems all the way through change management and user adoption. So we take a slightly different approach in the sense that we, uh it’s not really just the technology that we focus on. We really try to make sure that the people, the process, the strategy, the data, everything is aligned. Because if one of those pieces were missing, you’re not you’re not gonna be happy. So as a consulting practice, we try to make sure all those are aligned to help help move missions

[00:10:35.81] spk_1:
forward. What’s the significance of the name 1/10 Consulting. What is that? Does that mean?

[00:10:55.56] spk_2:
Yeah. You know, in the six faith, there’s a, ah principle or a concept of thus fund we call it, which is giving 10% of your your income, your time to the community into the greater good. Um, and in my early years of starting this practice, I worked with a lot of faith based communities. Um, and as I was implementing donor management systems for churches and synagogues and masa, I started noticing that this concept of 10% or 1/10 of your income. Er, and giving back was was such a central component of every one of these faiths and every one of these faith traditions. Eso to me, it was it was nice. It was this unifying principle. And and so that’s kind of where 1/10 comes from that the 1/10 really represents this this treasure. And, you know, I’m hoping 1/10 consulting helps helps that 10% really realize its full

[00:11:36.74] spk_1:
potential. So before you recognize this commonality, what were you, Reuben sing Consulting? What were you before you were 1/10

[00:11:43.75] spk_2:
before 1/10 I have worked for, um I worked at a non profit sector, but also in CR ems for over 20 years. So prior to 1/10 I was with an organization called Round Corner. In their non profit technology sector. I was vice president of digital transformation, and, um, and they actually have been acquired by Salesforce. But that was the time I realized that I don’t want to be tied into one particular product and really want to be able to look at things more holistically that way. Started.

[00:12:14.94] spk_1:
Um, let’s go back to ah to advice you um, you know, part of what you ah talk about is tough questions to ask way at that stage, or is there more you want to say leading up to it? But you you, uh you take it where where we need to go,

[00:13:44.97] spk_2:
right? Right. Yeah, I think you know, as far as the tough questions that we covered, some of them the integration, the interoperability. Okay, I think another thing we talked about with terms, not just the yes, no questions. Also, when it comes to things like, Do you handle soft credits? Do you handle plan giving? Do you handle solicitors again? The questions the answers will always be Yes. And although, you know, matching gifts, workplace gifts, these these air something that all non profits due in some way, shape or form. But you want to make sure that your impression and your understanding of it is the same as the sales reps because I’ve noticed a lot of gaps in that area as well. Another couple tougher questions that I always like to get into is asking this question of what exactly is has been upgraded in this demo. So I’ve just seen it Time and time again, tony. Where, uh, you know, again, you’ve seen this great demo. And then when you come back and say, Well, these air, like, archaic looking Web forms can’t show these to my donors, and then they come back and say, Oh, yeah, you just need to upgrade to the next forms package or, oh, if you’re going to send more than three emails, you have to say you have to upgrade to the next email package. So the demo has been filled with all these add ons and upgrades, but you’re kind of getting something different, you know?

[00:13:47.33] spk_1:
And so you bought that you bought the base model, but you test drove the, uh, the SLX expanded, uh, 16 cylinder version.

[00:14:01.74] spk_2:
Exactly. And I often, for example, a few years back I was, uh, family. We were purchasing home, and we wanted a new home, and we were looking all these model houses, and I know some people really like to see these beautifully furnished homes with great interior decorating. And I was just like, Can I just see an empty house? You know, I want to know what I’m getting. I get thrown off, I get distracted by all this. You know, Do you have some sort of, you know, house that’s being built, That that’s the same model that I could look at. And so I kind of looked at demos the same way. Do as little as possible, you know, and And don’t customise too much. Don’t add on anything. I want to see how close my use cases worked with your out of the box product that way. Ah, comparing apples down.

[00:14:39.06] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. So you can actually ask them to demo a specific version that you’d be most likely to be buying without whatever add ons, plug ins, upgrades, et cetera.

[00:14:51.31] spk_2:
Yeah, and it really should be easier for the sales rep to to prepare for that on and really have them. You’re focusing less on customizing and focus more on the use cases that you provided them. Okay. And I will tell you, you know, this not all sales reps or account executives will be receptive to this. And some of them might say, Oh, this is too much work. Or where they might look at your use cases and say we’re clearly not a fit, which is not a bad thing either. At least you know upfront. Yeah. The sales reps that I think are really good. And some of the ones I’ve worked with they would love something like this. They would love the client toe, give them a list of use cases. Give him some very specifics That way, they’re not guessing either. Ah, and the session is going to be a lot more fruitful when both sides

[00:15:34.44] spk_1:
are prepared. OK, OK, Reuben Weaken, spend some more time together. If you have more suggestions,

[00:16:04.52] spk_2:
you know, I’d say that there’s there’s probably one other suggestion that I would, uh I alluded to this at the very beginning on I think it kind of sums up. The whole point is when I talked Teoh sales reps and want to prepare them for a demo, I even tell them up front. You know, we’re not really interested in the demo. We’d like to have a working session and just even using that term, it changes the paradigm, and it really changes the relationship. They’re between yourself and the vendor. Eso even just something as simple as recommending that we’re calling it something different. The sales right will come in a little bit more prepared to work with you and really try to work through those use cases. Eso the more you can move away from the canned, you know, bells and whistles, presentation and Maurin toe a meaningful conversation on your use cases, the more happier you’re going to be with the end product,

[00:16:38.54] spk_1:
okay? And I guess if you get any if you get any pushback or objection from the from the sales rep about converting this from a demo to a work session, that’s a red flag about whether whether you want to purchase their ah, against purchasing their their product and continuing with the conversation with them.

[00:16:47.75] spk_2:
Absolutely. I mean, you know, we’re talking about on profits here, and, you know, obviously funds are always limited, and you want to make sure that you’re making smart decisions on where that money goes. So, like I said, a nonprofit sector, that’s the sales reps I’ve worked with their usually very much in line with this thinking. Um, so so but yeah, if there was any objection, that’s definitely red flag. In my opinion,

[00:17:10.04] spk_1:
you have ah, you have a resource at the on the 1/10 consulting site

[00:17:17.24] spk_2:
Yeah, yeah, you know, and we’re really bummed about that. The conference, the NTC conference being canceled. So what we did is we went ahead and I recorded the session that I had planned to deliver at the NTC conference, Um and ah ah. And have uploaded that recording to our website www 0.1 temp that consulting. Um, it’s there in the blog’s section. And you know, I would also suggest that that blawg section does have a lot of other resource is, you know, if you’re interested in grant management and what products are out there or if you’re trying to figure out what might be the CIA RAM solution for you, we have several articles free webinars on other insights that folks are welcome to take a look at

[00:17:56.84] spk_1:
Okay. And the full the full conference. Ah, this presentation is there. That’s correct. Okay, is 1/10 dot consulting. That’s correct. Oh, I didn’t know. I didn’t know dot Consulting is a, uh Is it available for those called extension?

[00:18:17.13] spk_2:
Yeah, it’s available. Signed, signed up for a couple years ago and definitely opens things up. T create the name that you want, so yeah, www 0.1 temps that consulting, and we’ll take you right

[00:18:29.14] spk_1:
there. Okay, It’s in the block block section. That’s right. All right. Ruben saying he’s CEO. 1/10 Consulting, Um, in Maryland, outside Baltimore. Rubin. Thank you very much. Thanks very much for sharing.

[00:18:35.14] spk_2:
Thank you, Tony. I appreciate your time.

[00:21:12.05] spk_1:
My pleasure. Thanks. And thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software, Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands how you work. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now time for tony Stick to George Floyd. It’s a recorded murder. I am skeptically optimistic that the United States will deal this time with its institutional racism. If we’re gonna have a chance that that we each need to be the change we want to see, there’s no waiting for political leadership. They’ll get dragged along after we the people, start the conversation at our level. That needs to happen and I would like to help. Next week, non profit radio will have a special episode devoted to how to start the racism and white privilege conversation in your office. It’s a long journey. It begins with a single step. We each need to be the change we want to see. Start with me next week. That is tony Steak, too. Now, time for Facebook fundraising data. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020. Non profit technology conference with me now, our Nick Byrne, Julia Campbell and Maureen will be off. Nick is founder and CEO at Give Panel. Julia Campbell is author, speaker and teacher at J. Campbell Social Marketing And Maureen will be off is digital strategist and technology coach with practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Welcome, everybody. Nick. Julie. Morning. Welcome. Welcome, city pleasure. I’m glad we’re able to work this out. I know you’re each well and safe on. I’m glad to hear that. Everybody’s okay. Um, we’re talking about Facebook. Fundraising your 2020 topic, uh, for NTC is best kept secrets the getting and using Facebook fundraiser data. Julia, you’ve been talking about Facebook fundraising for so long we had you on?

[00:21:16.09] spk_3:
Yeah, last two years ago

[00:21:18.57] spk_1:
Was the the last year or two years ago. Um, you’re gonna have toe. You have to find a new gig.

[00:21:23.62] spk_3:
I know. Well keeps changing

[00:21:26.41] spk_1:
this this one trick things.

[00:21:27.84] spk_3:
And now I found neck. You’re like my Facebook fundraising soulmate, so

[00:21:32.14] spk_1:
that’s right. So I’m going to start with you, Since I know for a fact you’ve been doing this thinking about Facebook fundraising a long time. Um, what the problem is, Facebook doesn’t share. Right? We lamented the last year or two years ago, you and I.

[00:22:42.13] spk_3:
Yes. So I Yeah, it was in New Orleans, Um, 18 ntc with and I did the first session on Facebook fundraising tools, and it was when they had just come out and I had mental health, America and the Polaris Project with me because they were kind of just slaying it with Facebook funders and raising thousands of dollars. Like Nick likes to talk about that magic money that comes down when you turn on the tools. But the number one this was two years, the number one quandary and problem, an issue that nonprofits had and still have is this issue that you don’t get the information of the contact information for everyone that makes a donation, even if it’s not to you? Necessarily. It’s to someone else’s birthday fundraiser. So our entire philosophy and the three of us are all on the same page, and we talked about it. We have talked about this a lot is that you’re missing the point. If you focus on the data that Facebook gives you, there are ways to get the data and the content information for your fund raisers. The people that are raising money for you that are stepping up and saying I want to donate my birthday. This is a cause that I really care about right now. Everyone come together, raise money. Those are the people you need to focus on. And I think Nick made an amazing amazing point earlier this morning when we were talking. I love that point where you don’t want to clog up your Sierra Room in your database with the data of all these donors who don’t even want to hear from you anyway because they haven’t elected to hear from you. They didn’t really box

[00:23:27.81] spk_1:
their connection here, person they’re connected. The person who is running the fundraiser?

[00:23:32.51] spk_3:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So get around this. We need to get over this hump. And Nick can also talk a lot more about that. And Maureen can

[00:23:40.82] spk_1:
too. All right, So you don’t want to focus on what we don’t have.

[00:23:44.34] spk_3:
Yes, there is a

[00:23:44.95] spk_1:
possibility that they might be, uh, uh, interested in engaging with you and your cause.

[00:23:51.81] spk_3:

[00:23:52.45] spk_1:
But you don’t want you don’t focus on that possibility. Want focus on what we do have is that

[00:24:31.94] spk_3:
Well, yeah, there’s kind of two ways to look at it. One is Do you want un discretionary? Do you want to, um, totally on un discretionary funds? Do you want free funds that you could do with whatever you want to do with coming in? No one telling you what to do? What? They’re not earmarked. Do you want that kind of money? Do you want exposure to a brand new audience? Or do you want to focus on the fact that I gave $5 to Maureen’s birthday fundraiser But I only gave because of Maureen? I’m not really interested in animal rescue yourself. Hung up on getting my email, but we got to stop with that.

[00:24:33.41] spk_1:
OK? All right. Well, Nick, Julie obviously teed you off. So why don’t you give us your overview?

[00:24:39.94] spk_5:
Yeah, I mean, I think, like like Facebook. Call it social fund raising. And I think that’s the key, right? It’s social. It’s it’s enabling people who love your cause who want, like, support your mission to go out and raise money from their family and friends. And if if organizations and nonprofits just treat it like direct mail or something, right, it’s not social, and so you have to you have to go with it. And so there’s this myth that, you know you can’t get the data. Yeah, Facebook don’t share the data. That is true. But actually, we’ve pion eight near two ways that you can get a lot of fundraiser data. You’re not going to get the data of every single donor that gives to every every single fundraiser on Or do you want to clog your sierra em up with that information, right? Because they’re not gonna convert on email or direct mail like less than 2% of them opt in. When Facebook asked them to hear from you. And that’s a good sign that they gave to your t their friend or their family or their loved one. Not Teoh your cause. So go with the flow. Don’t fight Facebook. Use it for a CE, much as we can possibly use it for. It’s a fantastic fundraising

[00:25:50.14] spk_1:
tour. Okay, Nick, what’s out in your background? You have You have a projector on your ceiling projecting that onto the wall.

[00:25:56.43] spk_5:
So that’s Michael. Jordan told me to read the quote. It’s a bit it needs to be bigger, right? But Michael Jordan quite. It’s a Michael Jordan quote. So is Michael Jordan

[00:26:05.70] spk_1:
Reed. It go ahead.

[00:26:20.05] spk_5:
It says, Uh, I’ve missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I’ve lost almost 300 games 26 times. I’ve been trusted to take the winning shot and missed. I failed over and over again in my life, and that is why I succeed.

[00:26:25.02] spk_3:
I love that

[00:26:26.76] spk_1:
additional. Okay. Is that that’s not a projection from your ceiling onto the wall, is it?

[00:26:31.26] spk_5:
That is one of those decals things.

[00:26:34.15] spk_1:
Okay? You’re very, very high tech. If you’ve got one

[00:26:38.12] spk_5:
E say it’s like a hologram,

[00:26:41.29] spk_1:
right? Exactly like It’s a

[00:26:42.77] spk_5:
commercial reality. It’s argument is not really there.

[00:26:50.94] spk_1:
It’s one of those lights that shines in front of a restaurant on the sidewalk. Where is it coming from?

[00:26:52.25] spk_5:
A car, guys, it’s,

[00:26:53.94] spk_1:
uh uh OK, Marine. You want toe? Er, why don’t you add to the overview and get helping us get started?

[00:28:30.69] spk_4:
Sure. I think that, you know, part of what Julia and Nick are alluding to has been around for a long time when you think about peer to peer fundraising generally. So I’ve helped a lot of people over the years with either live physical events, that’s a five K or a bike or walk or D i y peer to peer fundraising events and organizations, generally speaking, do not do anything with the donors who give to those team captains or those participants. The data does go into their C. R M because somebody’s made an online gift and is part of that text stuff. The date is getting sucked over, but they’re not trying to convert those people. But for some reason, people feel very frustrated about the inability to get the $5 donor into their database and is Nick and Julie have both said. You’re paying attention to the glass half empty. You need to shift your mind, pay attention to the information you can get and cultivate those relationships. Um, we and fundraising think a lot about the lifetime value of a donor, right? It’s just like it’s ingrained. And whether you were formally trained in the stuff or not is all around us about who’s valuable, Who do I spend time on and who I don’t. And Facebook turns that like a 45 degree angle. And it can be awful hard to get your leadership on board with ignoring donors just really what we’re telling people to dio. Those aren’t the folks that you should be paying attention to When it comes to Facebook fundraising, it’s the fund raisers themselves, not the people who were actually giving. And that could take some conversation at your board level or your your executive or sea level Um, inside your award that it is. It is not the way it’s always been, and you have to be cool with that and give

[00:29:00.80] spk_1:
it a try.

[00:29:01.75] spk_5:
Can I just jump in, jump in and just come off the back of the no Yeah, yeah. On anarchism. So polite, right?

[00:29:21.14] spk_1:
No. Yes. You’re not sure what I was? What I was going to say, Maureen, before I was interrupted was e. I could see how clearly. Yes. Take a drink, Nick, please. I can see why your company’s practical wisdom.

[00:29:23.34] spk_4:
Yeah, like

[00:29:30.74] spk_1:
your wisdom for non profit accidental techies. All right. And I saw you checkered with Donald Techie. Okay, so So we’ve gotta persuade our vice president, CEO and board, Maybe. I mean, the board may not be involved in what we do. Ah, fundraising campaign on Facebook or not. But at

[00:29:43.83] spk_4:
least these leaders, you

[00:30:05.28] spk_1:
persuade some people in the chain that we should be focusing on the five people a year who hosted us hosted a fundraiser for us on Facebook. Or it might be more than five, But but not not the 500 who gave at the rate of 100 each to to those to those five fundraisers. Ones who created the campaign’s not the wardens who donated to the campaigns.

[00:30:32.38] spk_4:
Okay, wait a few rooms about Facebook. You know, sometimes people have negative feelings about Facebook and that can you know, dr their business practices and where they’re choosing to invest their time. And what we’re what we’re here to say is Evaluate, evaluate, test it. Is it gonna work for your organization or not? And

[00:30:32.57] spk_1:

[00:30:32.68] spk_4:
probably is. So, you know, get ready. Get ready for that

[00:31:05.04] spk_1:
time for our last break. Turn to communications. They’re former journalists. So you get help getting your message through it is possible to be heard through the headlines. They know exactly what to do to build relationships with the journalists that matter to you. They are themselves former journalists. Those great relationships will lead to great coverage. They’re a turn hyphen to not CEO. We’ve got but loads more time for Facebook fundraising data. Nick you not because you interrupted, but Julia said earlier that you had some tools that we can applying here. You want to acquaint us with something?

[00:32:40.83] spk_5:
Yes. So my background as a digital fundraiser, we got into this early when client we saw the problems of the clients were having with data on. We started doing everything like, manually with spreadsheets and reaching out to fund raisers one of their time on Facebook, that kind of thing. And we just decided Look, this is crazy. We’ve got to build a tool to help that fast forward 18 months later, and we’ve got over 100 nonprofits in seven countries using give panel on What we do is we basically help organizations take the power back from Facebook? That’s kind of what we do. Like Facebook are getting a lot out of this, and that’s great. They’ve given us free tools. It’s free to use no platform cost, no technology costs, nor even any credit card fees, Right? So Facebook have given us something great. We know that they benefit, but our job is to leverage that tool as much as we can get a gun and leverage it for their advertising model on to keep them employees happy and like it’s a great thing that they’ve given the world. But it’s upto organizations toe to take the power back. And so we do that by helping how organizations Steward Steward their fundraisers get the data from their fundraisers on do you know, see graphs and dashboards and all that kind of thing. So it’s kind of the missing tool that Facebook haven’t given Facebook’s base books. No interested, necessarily in kind of building the best tool for charities, their customers, the end user on. So they’ll always be a gap where people like me will want to service the non profit. Right? OK, that’s what we

[00:32:43.61] spk_1:
do. Okay. Thank you. Julia party. Your description says how to identify who launches Facebook fundraisers. Is that Is that something that’s difficult to dio Julia?

[00:32:54.64] spk_3:
Yes. So Facebook is not going Teoh tell you when someone launches fundraiser and they’re not going to tell you who has necessarily launched a fundraiser. So you do have If you’re small organization and you’re not using a tech tool like give panel to help you, then you are going to have to figure that out. You’re gonna have to constantly be looking at your fundraisers and constantly trying to figure out and identify where the campaigns are. But that is absolutely crucial even for a small organization to dio to thank people especially, and give them the tools to sort of have already in your maybe on your website toe have a little bit of a tool kit. Maybe it’s a one page document with tips for fundraisers to really elevate their campaigns because we know nobody was born a fundraiser. No one’s born knowing how to fundraise. And if someone’s trying to raise $200 for their birthday, it’s a win win. If they can succeed because they’re gonna feel great and it’s going to be an amazing legacy for them and they’re gonna be really excited, and then you’re gonna build that relationship with them because you helped them. So, yeah,

[00:34:06.96] spk_1:
so how do we identify if we don’t have a tool? How right? Go to Facebook O. R. And find who’s doing this for us.

[00:34:14.09] spk_3:
I’ll turn that over to net cause there’s a couple ways.

[00:34:25.07] spk_5:
Okay? Yes. So Facebook. When you signed up to Facebook giving tools, you get a tab on your fate on your non profit Facebook page that says fundraisers. So you can see fund raisers that have raised more than $50 in that list. The problem is that you over about 70 60 to 70% of your fund raisers don’t reach $50. There’s a lot. There’s a lot of big fundraisers, but there’s also a lot, a lot of small fundraisers.

[00:34:41.89] spk_1:
All right, so you’re not going to capture the smallest ones. You won’t be able to say thank you to them. Maureen, what do we do? Once we have identified the people who have have launched these fundraisers for US

[00:35:35.06] spk_4:
micro appreciation, I’ll use next term. You have to find small ways to recognize and appreciate the effort that these fundraisers air making, no matter how much or how little they’re raising for you. Facebook is the great equalizer in that everybody sort of knows what everybody is doing, and your fundraisers expect it. They expect you to be paying attention. They expect you to thank them and acknowledge them all within the tool, you know? Yeah, you certainly want to try to get enough information and their permission to move them over onto your email list so that they can learn more about your organization. They can be more empowered to fundraise more for your get otherwise involved, but, you know, sending a message. Knicks got a great program where people send a tiny little gift like a like a pin, a piece of swag that in your non profit they have sitting around It’s pennies. Teoh access it a diner to to mail it out, and then that person has a tangible thing that is reinforcing that relationship. They knew that I did it. They took a minute to say thank you. They actually gave me a thank you gift. And so every time an opportunity comes up in my personal life for me to start a fundraiser, I’m gonna go back to that organization and show my loyalty.

[00:36:20.11] spk_1:
And what can we do to encourage these fundraisers, whether it’s birthday or or whatever, How can we? How can we be promoting that idea to To our constituents?

[00:36:34.41] spk_4:
You do have to promote it. Radio promoting Julia, which I

[00:37:28.28] spk_3:
guess you have to be proactive rather than reactive. So sure, setting up the tools and registering for Facebook payments. Make sure you’re you know I’s are dotted and your T’s are crossed and your registered and you have all the tools set up. But it’s just like with the Donate button on websites 5 10 years ago. If you just put it on your website and don’t tell anybody, then you can’t just expect the donations to rolling as much as they could. You really have to be proactive. So advertising it, telling people this is an exciting new way. It’s effective. It’s safe Facebook doesn’t take any fees, kind of dispelling the myths and misconceptions out there around Facebook fundraising showing people examples of other fundraisers that have occurred, giving them the tools like, um, giving them photos, giving them videos, giving them text, explaining to them here the top five things to do when you start a Facebook fundraiser. Here’s what to do when you hit your halfway point but actively encouraging people. I’ve seen it in a welcome email sequence. Actually. Ah, lot of nonprofits. When you sign up for the email issue, make a donation. I’ve seen them encourage you in their little sequence. Say, to make a bigger impact. Would you be interested in setting up a Facebook funders or force? Put something on your website? Put something in your email signature. Do a Facebook live. You know, you really have to look at it as all hands on deck promoting this.

[00:38:06.00] spk_1:
What do we know about the characteristics of people who are most likely to do this? Are they necessarily the under 30?

[00:38:13.12] spk_3:
I don’t know, Nick. You might know that we

[00:38:15.41] spk_5:
we don’t have any demographic information. What we do have is that its acquisition, actually, this isn’t for something for your existing supporters donors as much as it is people who are getting noted, verified a week before on Facebook, a week before their birthday. Hey, do you want to set up a birthday fundraiser? And then they’re searching for breast cancer? They’re searching for arthritis. They’re searching for dunk cap, you know, whatever they want, their passion about what they want to give to. So 90% of our client data From what the studies we’ve done our new to the organization. They’re not people that were already on the database. So this is acquisition and its huge. We have clients that have 30,000 fundraisers a month. I mean, when you get it right, it’s by big.

[00:39:05.70] spk_1:
I’m surprised to hear I’m surprised to hear its acquisition. I didn’t expect that at all. We’re committed donors who thought of you on their birthday. You’re saying they’re thinking that their birthday is coming up and they’re looking for a cause?

[00:39:39.52] spk_5:
Yeah, that’s like So my my wife lost unfortunate, lost her mom to breast cancer two years ago. She wasn’t she just fighting breast cancer and shows the 1st 1 that came up on what we’re seeing is as more nonprofits get on Facebook, the slice of the pie is getting thinner and thinner, so you need to get in early is growing, but so is the adoption. And so organizations that go on it two years ago did very well. It’s not the birthday. Fundraising is slowing down is the fact that actually more organizations are jumping on because they’re seeing how successful it is.

[00:39:46.57] spk_1:
Okay, we’re gonna start to wrap up, Julia. I’m gonna give you ah, a shot and then never go to Maureen for the final. What do you want to leave people with? Maybe how to get started. Whatever final thoughts.

[00:39:59.52] spk_3:
Well, if you’ve not started yet, go to social good dot FB dot com and see if you’re eligible to register. It’s not open in every single country yet. And some tools air open in some countries and some are not. But the very the second thing I would dio is understand that this can Onley augment and enhance what you’re doing. What we’re saying is not to completely replace everything that’s working. I’m not saying Onley to face with fundraising and throw out your direct mail, which is what people are hearing. I think sometimes when I talk, I’m not saying that. I’m saying this is gonna enhance. And like Nick just said, it’s a way to acquire new people that are passionate. That could be even more passionate about your cause. Because everyone’s already on Facebook all day already. You know, there’s millions. Billions of people on Facebook is the leverage, the tools and do the best you can with what you have.

[00:40:55.84] spk_1:
Okay, Marine, would you wrap us up, please?

[00:41:31.71] spk_4:
Sure. Um I would say, Don’t let the perfect get in the way of the good, you know we can. We’re very terrible about snow. Sometimes in non profit culture. We take a really long time to think about things. A really long time to change gears. This is a time for action. Even if the world wasn’t dealing with the pandemic, it is a time for action for nonprofits. Try something having experimental frame. Get buying from your leadership, but try it. Try it. You really have nothing to lose. How’s that?

[00:41:38.24] spk_1:
Would an impassioned plea Yes, that Z from from Kit God, that’s Marine will be off digital strategist and technology coach with practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Also, Julia Campbell, The

[00:41:47.02] spk_3:
Penis of your voice over Any time you talk

[00:41:49.93] spk_1:
work what it is. The company right?

[00:41:52.11] spk_4:
It absolutely is

[00:42:10.80] spk_1:
way. Non profit. Accidental techies. Julia Campbell, author, speaker, trainer, author, speaker, teacher and trainer. Well, teachers Train right, Jay Campbell, social marketing and Nick Byrne with Any at the end. Founder and CEO Give Panel Marine and Julia and Nick. Thank you so much for sharing with us.

[00:42:15.43] spk_3:
Thanks, tony. Thank you.

[00:43:41.52] spk_1:
Stay Well, I’m glad we were able to work this out and thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of the virtual 20 NTC workshops sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us next week. The special episode on the racism conversation and more from 20 NTC on the regularly scheduled show. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be sent. You find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and my turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Ah, creative producer is clear. Meyer off Sam Liebowitz Managed stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our rep guy. This music is by Scots You with me next week for not profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio & #20NTC

Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio would have been at the 2020 Nonprofit Technology Conference this month. I’m proud and grateful that we would have been sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software, accounting software made for nonprofits. Sadly, NTEN made the excruciating decision to cancel 20NTC due to the Coronavirus pandemic. I’m no less grateful to Cougar Mountain. What’s with that guy’s hair?

Nonprofit Radio for January 31, 2020: CEO/Chair Relationship

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Alex Counts: CEO/Chair RelationshipYour CEO and board chair need to forge and maintain a strong partnership. Alex Counts shows us how. He’s a consultant, and founder of Grameen Foundation.



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[00:00:14.14] spk_2:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit

[00:00:16.74] spk_0:
radio big non profit ideas for the

[00:00:19.67] spk_2:
other 95%.

[00:00:44.44] spk_0:
I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown in taquito amino acid E mia If you brought me down with the sappy idea that you missed today’s show CEO chair relationship, your CEO and board chair need to forge and maintain a strong partnership. Alex Counts shows us how he’s a consultant and founder of Grameen Foundation on

[00:00:48.09] spk_2:
Tony’s Take. Two planned giving for the decade were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali

[00:01:18.14] spk_0:
Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant er Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Now let’s, uh, meet Alex counts Pleasure to welcome him. He’s adjunct professor of public policy at the University of Maryland and a non profit consultant. He’s founder of Grameen Foundation, which has grown to become a leading international humanitarian

[00:01:31.93] spk_2:
organization. He’s got a book Changing

[00:01:41.95] spk_0:
the World Without Losing Your Mind. Leadership lessons from three decades of social entrepreneurship, which is a chronicle of philanthropy. Editor’s pick. He’s at Alex counts dot

[00:01:47.38] spk_2:
com and at Alex counts. What was your name again? Alex counts. Thank

[00:01:49.06] spk_4:
you. It’s great to be here.

[00:01:53.22] spk_2:
Pleasure. Thank you for coming into the city on the studio. Um, tell us about the founding

[00:01:58.65] spk_0:
of Grameen Foundation. Interesting roots in Bangladesh.

[00:02:00.69] spk_4:
Yeah, I was is a college student. I was taken with the work Mohammad Yunus was doing to empower the destitute women of Bangladesh through micro credit, and he would go on to win the Nobel Prize. But I kind of it was Grameen Bank. That was Grameen Bank. And I had this vision in college of If we could take his model and exported to other countries where there is poverty, that would be could be a real breakthrough. It was simplistic, but and I But it was basically a good idea. And so I went in, apprenticed with him for about a decade in Bangladesh, and then I Then I said at one point, it’s time to start kind of an international hub for helping people apply the Grameen Bank ideas to other countries. And so he said, Well, here’s $6000 which I thought was a lot of money to start an organization with. It wasn’t but we were just kind of on a wing and a prayer started What became growing foundation in 97 on Guy was completely unprepared and all sorts of ways to run a non profit and start one. But we went forward and it worked out.

[00:03:07.30] spk_0:
You you say sort of hastily because you’ve got a lot going on. You had a lot going on 10 years living in Bangladesh. You fluent in de she Bengali Bangla. Is it Bangalore? Bengali? Is it? It’s It’s

[00:03:11.32] spk_4:
Bengali and English. It’s Bangla in being Ali.

[00:03:14.13] spk_3:
Okay, Um,

[00:03:15.10] spk_2:
I’ve been

[00:03:21.23] spk_0:
there. I spent I spent two weeks between Bangladesh just in Dhaka and Sir Lanka, which is also a beautiful country. Yeah,

[00:03:23.50] spk_2:
my sense of Bangladesh

[00:03:24.46] spk_0:
was ah, lot of poverty and a lot of very hardworking people. Thes tiny businesses in the micro stalls is I’m thinking of old DACA, but people working hard and you know, whatever their niche was, uh I

[00:03:39.12] spk_2:
saw a lot of hard working, dedicated people,

[00:04:10.25] spk_4:
Absolutely both in the cities and in the rural countryside where I spent a lot of my time and learn. That’s why I really learned Bengali well, but it is my mentor and board chair, Susan Davis. So I met in Bangladesh. She was a Ford Foundation representative and I was, Ah, Fulbright scholar initially, and she said, Listen, Alex, she’s a lot of these pithy statement She said, In a country that doesn’t have enough jobs, by far doesn’t have a social safety net. You have two choices. You work for yourself tiny undercapitalized business in most cases or you starve. And so people, whether they’re intramural ability, is robust or more limited. Starvation is not a great option. So people try to start these tiny businesses.

[00:04:22.68] spk_0:
That’s when I saw yeah, s O. That’s the micro micro lending. And then Mohammed as and all I can imagine, what someone could do with it isn’t even $1000. Is that too much?

[00:05:00.83] spk_4:
So the loans for the first decade of Grameen were typical. Loan was about $70. So your way you’re buying, you know, five chickens and you know you know how to raise chickens. But you never had more money to have more than one u five chickens. You sell the eggs, you pay off the loan with the sales of the eggs. And at the end of the year, you have five chickens that air your asset maybe more assets than you’ve ever had a productive assets you’ve ever had in your life. And Mohammad Yunus is in sight. Was but build a banking system that can actually be viable through making $70 loans and then $100 loans if they pay back and later, larger amounts on and and And that was the essence of his brilliant innovation.

[00:05:15.94] spk_0:
And you were, You were how many years that Green Foundation as founder and CEO

[00:05:21.27] spk_4:
18 years s. I ran it for its 1st 18 years. It was a It was a fantastic ride. And again when we finally started, get some headway is when I realized that a couple things that I need to be fundraiser in chief. That wasn’t something I could delegate and that I needed to craft a very important relationship with my board share.

[00:05:40.90] spk_2:
And those

[00:05:42.86] spk_4:
two insights probably where the, you know, helped us reach kind of escape velocity and get it to erase 10 $2025 million in the year, as opposed to remain a little tiny, non

[00:05:51.46] spk_0:
profit. What a skilled guest you bring in the board. The board chair relationship so smoothly. So not like the boorish host of the show. We’re just abruptly changed course.

[00:06:04.48] spk_2:
All right, so, uh, yeah, so we’re here to talk about Well, you know, we’ll shout

[00:06:08.30] spk_0:
out your book a couple times, uh, changing the world without losing your mind. But

[00:06:12.67] spk_2:
we want to focus

[00:06:23.81] spk_0:
on something that I saw an article that you had written in The Chronicle of Philanthropy about the CEO board chair relationship. Susan Davis was one of your one of your chair. Was she your first? She’s my

[00:06:28.99] spk_4:
third chair. But when we finally I finally got the relationship right was with her, and I give her most of the credit for that. I kind of fumbled it with the 1st 2 board chairs, mainly my fault on dhe. She helped me kind of figure out how to make that just a magical relationship

[00:06:43.90] spk_0:
on dhe critical to the success of an organization you saw Grameen on. You felt it. You saw it and felt it in your relationship with Susan. You saw the organization benefiting and you felt it personally.

[00:07:44.00] spk_4:
I had an ally. I wasn’t so alone. She gained my trust on She would sometimes, you know, step in and do things that I was either incapable of doing or just didn’t have the skills. I mean, it’s just a perfect relationship on. And, you know, she wasn’t the prototypical white male businessman in their sixties with a lot of money, but she brought other assets, and and then, you know, we were ableto have a more traditional board chairs coming after her. But she was in the roll for six and 1/2 years, and she, you know, the the article you mentioned in The Chronicle of Philanthropy. The origin of that was I was giving a talk at The Chronicle about my book and about how I went from a completely underprepared non profit executive director, succeeding on some level. And I just kept coming back to my relation with Susan on then the couple of four chairs that followed her, and they said, Would you write an article on that on that you you mentioned so many times you’re talking? I said I’d be thrilled to, and It was a pretty narrow topic, but it got a good response and got me here to be talking with you.

[00:08:10.38] spk_0:
Your life has led you to this moment. All points of it’s all downhill from here. Pretty much non profit radio. I feel bad after our lunch, then

[00:08:11.79] spk_4:
downwardly mobile life.

[00:08:13.24] spk_0:
I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Uh,

[00:08:19.52] spk_2:
all right. So let’s talk about, um Well, the let’s get into some of your some

[00:08:22.27] spk_0:
of your advice around this around this relationship, you siphoned it down into 10. I don’t know if we’ll get time for 10 because we want to talk a little about Cem Cem, General governance. But

[00:08:32.03] spk_2:
why don’t we, uh why don’t we just

[00:08:39.14] spk_0:
tease the 1st 1? We got a minute before before first break about, um, respect the chair needs to earn respect if that the

[00:09:14.59] spk_4:
chair is seen is just a kind of a defender of the CEO, uhm, and someone who’s just tryingto make his or her life easy and keep the bored out of their hair or in any other way doesn’t really have the respect to the board. Then his or her job is much harder because the board chair is kind of a liaison between the staff and the executive director and the rest of the board. And that board share has to earn the respect of both parties in order. Play that bridging role effectively. And Susan did it. Sometimes people do it by writing $1,000,000 checks, but Susan didn’t have that at her disposal of time. So she did it in other ways but was able to get earn the respect of me and the staff. But very importantly, the the rest of the board.

[00:09:24.62] spk_0:
All right, I’ve seen board chairs that were wealthy and wrote big checks and still didn’t have the respect of the board. So if there’s respect based on that, I think it’s kind of shallow and it doesn’t necessarily follow even. Okay, let’s take our first

[00:09:38.40] spk_2:
break wegner-C.P.As They go beyond the numbers. They’ve got videos, effective governance.

[00:09:43.61] spk_0:
For starters. We’re gonna talk a little about that toward the end of the show. Um,

[00:09:47.70] spk_2:
also i nine

[00:09:51.74] spk_0:
tips. If you happen to have immigrant employees, they’ve also got a video on high impact grant

[00:09:53.83] spk_2:
proposals, sexual harassment awareness, way beyond the numbers. This is not just

[00:10:16.94] spk_0:
your average accountancy, for God’s sake, on other videos, you gotta wegner-C.P.As dot com, Click Resource Is and recorded events. I just got late breaking news that Amy Sample Ward will be calling in around the bottom of the hour. Onda will spend about five minutes talking about 20 NTC, the 2020 non profit technology conference, which is in coming up in March in Baltimore. So I know you wanna hear her at the bottom of the hour. Um, in the meantime, let’s go back to ah CEO chair relationship.

[00:10:33.01] spk_2:
Yes. Oh, I don’t I don’t think

[00:10:40.81] spk_0:
money first necessarily creates respect, And if it does, I think it’s a kind of a shallow Well, it’s one

[00:10:42.10] spk_4:
thing to earn. The respect is the board share. You have to show that you’re invested. Ah, and so Susan would show that by showing up prepared by doing her homework. Talking with Helio money and writing a check that is meaningful for someone and meaningful for the organization is another way. But you’re right. It’s no way incomplete. You need to be a fair minded. You need to kind of promote the right kind of dialogue of the board level craft agendas that makes sense that you know, Don’t don’t let the board becoming their micromanaging or rubber stamp, but occupy that really nice middle ground. Yeah, it’s All I’m saying is, is that it’s possible to earn the respect of the board, even with bored with some wealthy people. If you’re yourself aren’t personally wealthy by doing other things on that, some people I think some people just regard it is you know you need the board. Share is just absolute mandatory to be made your wealthiest person, the board and I might have thought that. But I saw that. It doesn’t need to be.

[00:11:38.93] spk_0:
Yeah, I would reject

[00:11:42.13] spk_3:
that. Um, by

[00:11:42.47] spk_0:
the same token, you do want the board chair tohave the back of the CEO in times of crisis. Well,

[00:11:56.76] spk_4:
right? I mean, people, you know, have all non profit CEOs if, unless they’re completely risk of hers, make mistakes, mismanaged things mismanage external relationships on dhe, you know, it’s it’s, I think when our new chairs in place, how they react to the first time that happens on whether they both publicly and privately support the CEO on dhe make them feel secure in the aftermath of their bungle eyes. Probably a lot will determine. A lot of everything will go after that on Susan. You know, a time would come maybe six months later, where Susan would talk with me and her successors, who are also very good and say, you know, that thing that you did in six months ago? They didn’t work out, you know? What did you learn from it? Andi? Are we Do we have things in place to prevent that from happening again? But at the time when you’re at your low point and at risk of making further poor decisions in the aftermath of trying to cover up or deal with one bad decision, having the board share be empathetic and supportive and not pointing a finger is I found a central

[00:12:54.10] spk_0:
is the board is looking to them for leadership. You know howto way still behind this CEO or are we not?

[00:13:19.11] spk_4:
How do we digest this, right? And then that’s where the board chair’s leadership did not gloss over. It does not say this mistake was meaningless, but also not to say panic, but to say I’m on top of this. I’m gonna disclose to you the board what’s going on in a level appropriate to your role. I’m working with the E D. And

[00:13:19.32] spk_2:
now if it’s

[00:13:19.72] spk_4:
a life endangering mistake for the organization that it might go under,

[00:13:24.10] spk_2:
then I think

[00:14:07.87] spk_4:
you need to take a little different tact. But if it’s just a setback and embarrassing though it may be, you know you need to really inspire confidence in everyone. But also just, you know, to get the best out of the CEO of the executive director. You know, first and foremost is have them feel like you’re their ally, not someone who’s trying to, you know, embarrassed. And I’ve seen this. I’ve served on boards for all you have and others listeners have board shares to whatever. There’s a mistake. They feel it’s kind of a public embarrassment for them, and their job is to avoid blame themselves. Maybe they have public standing, and then that that has on and particularly that could kind of poison the relationship with the E D. You know, nothing flat. Yeah.

[00:14:09.12] spk_2:
Do you? You have a

[00:14:20.00] spk_0:
preference for executive director versus CEO? I’ve had guests prefer the CEO. Others say it doesn’t really matter much. Do you have ah preference, you

[00:15:06.71] spk_4:
know, in the organization’s I’ve served in. It’s been I’ve been the president and CEO. There’s some executive directors that aren’t the chief executive officer that sometimes is the chair in executive chair. That’s interesting. So Esso and again I’m not. I’m not a super techno person on this, but I think smaller nonprofits tend to be. You talk about AIDS on, and sometimes they don’t have a vote at the board level, whereas in large organizations, that tends to be a president CEO with a non executive chair. And I’m just, you know, and even when grooming Foundation was small, somehow we adopted that nomenclature, which at the time I didn’t care about or think it all about. I was just trying to raise enough money to pay this, you know, costs the next month. But anyway, that’s that. That’s what we adopted. Yeah,

[00:15:10.49] spk_2:
okay, but now you have the

[00:15:13.66] spk_0:
luxury of looking back and snickering. That’s right! And admitting that the first to board chairs the relationships warrant as robust, as supportive as they could have been made

[00:15:22.92] spk_2:
at the time,

[00:15:26.10] spk_4:
I viewed the board and managing my relation with the chair, and fundraising is kind of necessary. Evils not, is not as something to be the cornerstone of building the organization. That was That was my fundamental mistake until I finally got it right.

[00:15:37.80] spk_2:
Let’s talk a little about

[00:15:46.84] spk_0:
selection of, ah, board chair. Do you like to see it come from? The board would like to see. I’ve seen organizations that have a assistant assistant chair, rice chair, vice chair, executive vice chair, and then it’s presumed that they’re gonna move into the chair. You like to see that kind of

[00:15:56.58] spk_2:
ladder? Well, first,

[00:16:44.61] spk_4:
I think every rule in terms of building aboard you should be, you know, willing almost every really should be willing to break. So one point. We had a very well known, very wealthy person joining our board, and we thought about installing them his chair for more or less the moment that joined the board. And that might have worked. But we didn’t didn’t come to pass, but in general I think you want someone of your chair who served on your board with distinction for, you know, three or four years at least. I like the idea of a vice chair, but I’m a little out made out of the mainstream on this I don’t think that vice chair should necessarily be the chair elect. I’d like to see a vice chair in that role really perform so that they earn the chair. Roll a za po. And that’s why sometimes having to vice chairs, I’ve seen that work nicely. But oftentimes the vice chair is

[00:16:47.08] spk_0:
the two vice chairs are sort of competing to be that really like we friendly competition for the chair shit. German ship.

[00:16:53.76] spk_6:
It’s a

[00:16:56.00] spk_4:
secondary aspect. Yeah, it’s Ah, a TTE The point We had our vice chair on the West Coast and I thought that having a second vice chair who was quite busy when entered a And

[00:17:05.04] spk_5:
that’s what one

[00:17:05.41] spk_4:
things that happens. You can’t predict a vice Jared chair can enter the role in a semi retirement, have a lot of time to put in. And next thing you know, they’re appointed as happened to me, a CZ the as the CEO of a publicly traded company and their ability to put time in is changed. So we we had a vice chair who was the dean of ah of a university in a university on the West Coast. I said, Well, what if we had a vice chair on the East Coast also to kind of cover this part of the country and on. So that worked.

[00:17:34.62] spk_2:
But in another way, was

[00:17:35.89] spk_4:
a kind of let’s, let’s see, between the two of them, which one of them, you know, is it inspires the confidence of the board on shows the commitment that would make them the ideal. You know, successor chair.

[00:17:48.14] spk_2:
How do you like to

[00:18:10.16] spk_0:
break in? I think my voice just crack. How’d you? 14. Huh? How? Let’s give some authoritative. Ah, tony. Er, how do you like to, uh ah, inaugurate the relationship? New chair? You presumably. As you’re suggesting. You know, if you worked with him 3 to 4 years, So the non new person to you. But I knew in that relationship. You in that position.

[00:18:12.91] spk_2:
How do you like to

[00:18:13.67] spk_0:
kick off the that new relationship? Well,

[00:18:17.02] spk_4:
in an ideal world and running a nonprofit where you never have enough resource is and you’re always trying to cram 14 months of work into 12 months and you can always do this.

[00:18:26.54] spk_2:
But an ideal

[00:18:26.99] spk_4:
world. I’d like to spend a good kind of a good day with the person you know, both with a structured agenda and somewhat unstructured, maybe going to a baseball game together just to really get to know them and bond with them, if that’s possible. On

[00:18:39.97] spk_2:
the other

[00:18:40.21] spk_4:
thing that kind of evolved. This is, you know, I’m thinking back what work is that each board share wanted gonna put their stamp on the their leadership not to not to just contradict or do something different than what the prior wanted done, but

[00:18:55.72] spk_2:
something that

[00:18:56.11] spk_4:
they had seen. Maybe work in another non profit or in the corporate sector. And

[00:18:59.91] spk_2:
I would just

[00:20:59.49] spk_4:
say, unless it didn’t make any sense to me. I said, Let’s let’s do that Let’s you know this person didn’t kind of imposed this idea when they were, say, vice chair, just to give you two examples. You Bob bike Feld, who succeeded Susan in the role he thought that it was. It was a very important from a governess perspective to gather a couple board leaders and the head and our general counsel on me every six months to basically evaluate the performance of each and every board member in person and on, and so and you know when people were doing really well. So well, let’s let’s prepare a resolution commending them at the next meeting. Will we draft that if the person wasn’t referring? Well, well, who’s gonna take them aside? We’ve never done that before. But it was just something he thought you know would work. And I just said, You know, you want to bring that in. This is gonna be one of your signature things that comes in your first year. I’m totally behind it. Let’s make it happen. Or another thing he wanted is for me to bring in that. Susan wasn’t kind of didn’t That wasn’t her style, but it’s like let let Bob lead the way he wants to. And let me not just grudgingly say, OK, I’ll do that if you want, But I think this could be a great idea. And you, Bob also pushed me to write for the first time emergency succession plan, which I embarrassed to say that, you know, 10 years in the Grameen Foundation, I had never even know what that was. But and he said, you know, write, write up a memo for those of your listeners and aren’t aware you know, what should we do if you’re suddenly incapacitated or killed? And and so I put it off for a while, it was more confronting than I thought, but I finally did get it done. And that was something he achieved in his first year. Um, and again I was I was just kind of trusted that that was something of useful. And I put my full attention to kind of implementing a couple of ideas that he had and and when every new board chair came in, they kind of had a few ideas. And I would just unless they sound crazy to me and I I need to get the convinced I would just, you know, not just back from kind of half heartedly, but fully

[00:21:01.64] spk_2:
say some more about

[00:21:02.28] spk_0:
the semi annual board evaluate individual board member evaluation process.

[00:21:07.64] spk_2:
Well, you know,

[00:21:19.90] spk_4:
we would gather on a table. I think we did it a few times. That can recall, and it was no one ever called in. Our vice chair flew in from San Diego for it. We did it in Washington and literally, you know, it was just it was sickness. See,

[00:21:22.95] spk_2:
one of the

[00:21:23.40] spk_4:
things I’ve come to believe that came from Susan. The Before Bob is that term limits are

[00:21:29.14] spk_2:
kind of

[00:21:31.76] spk_4:
a quick fix kind of mandate, and that really what you want board members to do is to is to kind of go through their orientation and

[00:21:37.70] spk_2:
then to go

[00:22:09.31] spk_4:
into a period of what I call High Performance is a board member where they’re giving it their all their money, their time, their reputation, their con connections, etcetera. And then ultimately, all board members, I think, ultimately go into what is called coasting, where they’re just they’re not really giving their all because their interest is in another organization. And so Bob’s this term limits air saying, Well, most people go to coasting after six years, so let them just term out at six years. But the truth is, some people term out. Some people go into that mode after 18 months, and some are going strong in 18 years. So this was a mechanism to just evaluate the kind of the wherein the life cycle was each individual on the board where what should they be commended for? On what should they maybe be taken aside and said, you know, board member ex. You know, if you could get back to performing like you did four years ago in terms of showing up prepared, participating discussions, your committee assignments, raising money, giving money, You know, we think you should re up for the board when your turn comes up. But if not you, maybe not. Ah, and that can’t be done. The blunt instrument of term limits or other things. This

[00:22:42.14] spk_2:
is this. We would

[00:23:01.77] spk_4:
spend 34 hours together evaluating every single person aboard. And how might we support them better. But how might we ask them to support us more? And you can’t? You can’t take a cookie cutter to that. And so it was. It was a pretty rigorous process, but it was. It worked, and it made the team that was at the table. They’re just feel like they were in a position to, and it had them participate differently. This is the vice chair chair of the Governance Committee and the general counsel me in the chair. You know, we would then pay attention. More panel, evaluating each number individually, correct. And

[00:23:17.25] spk_2:
and then once you start

[00:23:54.67] spk_4:
that, then you know, you kind of observe the board in a different way. When you know you’re gonna be six months later doing that again and you start to think, Gosh, might I pull this board member aside even now and commend them or redirect them a little bit even if I’m not the chair? Because I know that this evaluation and it creates a kind of accountability because we told the board that we were doing this. It wasn’t done in secret eso it was rather than have ah, this kind of straitjacket of term limits. We created this kind of culture of accountability, of board that just brought out the best in people. And when their interests moved on, they kind of voluntarily said, You know, this will be my final term and thank you all for whether I served for three years or 13 years on it. Just for me. It worked a lot better.

[00:24:20.39] spk_0:
Your ah contrary and in terms of the mainstream, thinking about board term limits, yes, but you have this important semi annual evaluation as well, so that a CZ your nerves, you said people will either recognize that they’re not performing, or they’ll bluntly be told that they’re not performing TX stations,

[00:24:27.96] spk_4:
right? That’s and it takes effort on

[00:24:29.76] spk_2:
because this is a lot of time

[00:24:30.60] spk_0:
commitment. How big? I’m sure the Grameen board grew over time when you left. How many people, you

[00:24:36.52] spk_6:
know, I like

[00:24:37.33] spk_0:
value waiting. Yeah, I’ve heard of much

[00:25:10.86] spk_4:
smaller and much larger board’s working, although I’m not quite sure how. But I think the optimal number aboard if they’re one of the responsibilities is raising money. The optimal number is between 15 and 20 and that’s what it was for almost the entirety of my time there, I think over 20 you get some negative dynamics, including, you know, people don’t show up. They’re not even noticed because the numbers are too big. And if you get under 15 you know, you really need a lot more fundraising muscle than you unless you just have a bunch of billionaires on the board. And so it was always. It was always in the high teens on, though I gave myself authority to have up to 25 on the bylaws, but gave us authority. But we never we will always, always between 15 and 20 right?

[00:25:23.08] spk_2:
So this is a big time

[00:25:23.82] spk_0:
commitment because Now you’re doing between 30 and 40 evaluations per year because you’re evaluating each person semi annually and several hours devoted to, ah, a conversation with each one twice a

[00:25:46.59] spk_4:
year. And the follow up that you promise, saying they’re there that after each board member would just say so what feedback or what? Commendation or accolade or redirection, Do we need to give this board member based on our discussion and that that would mostly fall to the five of us in the room

[00:26:01.15] spk_0:
and there was implicit in that s o. Some board members are getting commended on brothers or not, but we all know that we’re all being evaluated. So when it comes time for commendations, some names air left out, that’s where it was only,

[00:26:06.05] spk_4:
um, you know, it was

[00:26:06.63] spk_6:
only twice

[00:26:55.17] spk_4:
in our history where we actually had to take a board member side and urged them, not Thio run for re election. So if when this works well, it’s really becomes an informal accountability process where people opt out before they have to be kind of pushed out. And, uh um, and yet you need to be willing to do that if the time comes, and in one case, you know, way took a board member aside and we just said, It’s you know, it’s time for you to step aside and is interesting He said it that years later he told me he said, Well, as mad as hell at the time, but you and the chair were right. I just couldn’t see it then. And eso it’s that magical thing where people basically, whenever there flames, starts to be not so bright for in terms of the, you know, being a champion of the board, they just they know it and they and everyone knows it. And they just say again, Allah, I’ll serve out my term and I’ll step down and again whether that’s three years into their service or 15 years, it’s just based on. Are they giving it their best? And

[00:27:10.43] spk_2:

[00:27:10.61] spk_4:
everyone you know people’s interests move on. I mean, it’s a natural human phenomenon. Yeah,

[00:27:17.33] spk_0:
yeah. Very interesting. Interesting process. You mentioned election of board re election of board members. That was that not managed by an executive committee just deciding whether someone would remain Who were the electors, the whole board, the

[00:28:36.84] spk_4:
whole the whole board Now there’s a nominating what we close it in our model. We had both the governance committee that worked on our kind of internal governance, and the nominating committee was merged in the same committee and another boards I’ve been on Those are two separate things and on and, you know, when you only have 15 18 members. There are only so many committees you can have when your larger boards could have more. But yeah, it, in this case, the default was when someone’s three year term came up. Um, you think the default is that they’re gonna be reelected if they want to be. But there is a process that again the governance committee chair is part of that group that is, that meets every six months on day would take what are our discussions and bring them into the governance committee. Um, but Maur, I think that committee was more about adding new people to the board more of the nominating committee, but But ultimately every board meeting or every other board meeting, if someone’s three year term was up, they would be reelected or more than likely, or they would prior to that announced that they weren’t seeking re election and it would be handled that way. Okay.

[00:28:38.92] spk_3:
Okay. Um,

[00:28:40.17] spk_2:
let’s ah, let’s take,

[00:29:30.12] spk_0:
uh, let’s take this break. And, uh, if you wanna you got a little longer in this break, And now we’re gonna talk to Amy Sample Ward as well. So, uh, stand by. Don’t go anywhere, though, Okay? You don’t have time to go to the bathroom. Just drink water, bathroom breaks or later, uh, his break quote. We’ve been very happy with Cougar Mountain. It’s rare to encounter a problem with the software, but they’re always there to help walk. Help me walk through it. End Quote that Sally Hancock in Altoona, Pennsylvania, Maur raves about the Cougar Mountain customer service. Cougar Mountain has a free 60 day trial, which is on the listener landing page, which is at now time for Tony’s Take two. Your decade plan for planned giving. Um, this is not only the beginning of a new year, which is now close to 1/12 over already, but that means that we’re nearly 1 144th of the way into the new decade. So my, uh, belief is my It’s more than a belief. It’s almost Fact,

[00:29:49.25] spk_2:
if you start

[00:30:01.17] spk_0:
your planned giving program this year, you are gonna be astronomically ahead, and you’re gonna be you’re gonna be shocked at where you are by the year 2029. Those 10 years

[00:30:07.79] spk_2:
you’ll be you’ll be at

[00:30:21.72] spk_0:
a point where you can be projecting planned giving revenue for future years based on the revenue that you will have had in like years. 6789 That’s how far ahead you will be in plant giving and you think plan giving that. You know, people die. The gifts come, but we don’t know when those when those episodes air gonna happen. Yeah, but once your file is large enough, once you have enough planned giving donors in your file, you’re gonna start to see trends. And of course, you can’t predict to the dollar amount.

[00:30:46.78] spk_2:
But you can give yourself some comfort with a range that you expect to receive in cash each year,

[00:31:22.81] spk_0:
going forward from really like your 789 and forward, but certainly from your 10 on. So my urging is that you if you are not doing plan giving fundraising 2020 is the year to start the beginning of the decade. I say a lot more about this in a video, which is your decade plan for playing, giving. I lay out the plan. I don’t just say where you’re gonna be in a decade. I show you how to get there step year by year in the video, which is at tony-martignetti dot com. And that is tony. Take two now. Uh, late breaking. Let’s bring in Amy Sample Ward. She’s the CEO of and 10 and our social media and technology contributor. And

[00:31:44.64] spk_2:
we’re going to spend a few minutes talking about what’s coming up at 20 NTC. The 2020 non profit Technology conference. Welcome back, Amy. Sample Ward

[00:31:46.85] spk_7:
Bake. I’m happy to be on happy 2020.

[00:32:02.29] spk_2:
Thank you very much. Yes, indeed. First time we’ve talked this year. Um, it’s not too late to say Happy New Year because we know each other so well. And, uh, I haven’t seen you Haven’t talked to you since January 1st. So happy New Year. Happy, happy, Happy decade as well.

[00:32:05.44] spk_7:
Well, And where we’ve just started the Chinese New Year. So

[00:32:10.41] spk_0:
indeed, Yes, Yes, indeed. Balloon. You’re here. Um,

[00:32:13.04] spk_2:
so we’ve got this little thing coming up. It’s not

[00:32:24.41] spk_0:
so little, um, being snarky. It’s in Baltimore in March 2020. Non profit technology conference hosted by and 10 non profit radio will be there on the exhibit

[00:32:29.49] spk_2:
floor. But before we get to that, you tell us what? What? Why should

[00:32:31.89] spk_0:
we be attending?

[00:33:07.15] spk_7:
Oh, my gosh. I am really excited for this year because I think, as you know, you’ve You’ve been a handful of times now, so you can probably speak to this yourself too. But every year we’re always trying to make it better than it was, of course, the year before. And each year we feel like, Okay, this is the best we’ve ever done it. But how could we make it better? And I think we’ve got some really good plans this year that do that. Of course we have. You know, this is a big three day conference there, 2200 plus people altogether. And it doesn’t have to be, you know, just one type of non profit or one type of job in an organization. If you are listening to this, you are welcome at the number of

[00:33:17.73] spk_2:

[00:33:18.57] spk_7:
that you could learn and do there

[00:33:19.84] spk_0:
It is not only for technologists, not only for technologists,

[00:35:24.80] spk_7:
right? Well, I mean, it’s 2020. Everyone in a non profit is using technology, right? Like it doesn’t. It doesn’t really matter how what your job titles has on your business card. There’s pieces of technology you need to use or make decisions about to be effective in your job on. There’s folks from every job title and people who have been in the sector for a year, and people have been in it for 40 years. You know, it’s it’s really like a cross section of everybody, Um, and we have over 150 sessions, so plenty of opportunity to go learn. But outside of that, something that we feel makes the NTC really specialists. How many opportunities there are for you to meet other people and share ideas or come to the conference of that one burning question like you just wish you could find somebody that’s figured out a way to get mail chimp to do that One thing you know, like we want to make sure you really do find that one other person. So we have a lot of kind of community based programs that happen as part of the agenda, and we have even more of them this year. We’ve We’ve always had what we call birds of a feather. So you know, funny things like people will do. You know, people who love watching a certain TV show or something as a table topic at lunch. But other people will do things like, you know, they use a certain tool or something so they can all meet each other and chat. But in the afternoons we’ve started this year what we’re calling knowledge swaps where they’re Maur intentional. They are about, you know, something work related, something you want to do something You’re having a challenge with, something that you just did really well And you want to make sure you can share that knowledge with other people so folks can sign up to basically, like, find other folks and hosted a conversation together on the topics a little bit easier than saying you want to present for 75 minutes for a session, right? Like maybe you just want to find four other folks and share ideas. So we built that into the agenda each day on and we’ve also expanded our career center. That isn’t just for people looking for jobs. A really big part of the community of the career center is mentorship. So being able to sit down with somebody for happen our and share feedback, whether it’s about their resume or it’s about, you know, the evolution in your own career. So what? Whatever side of that coin that you would be on the career center has lost of opportunities for you, um, and would love for folks to be a part of that.

[00:35:51.11] spk_0:
Okay, um, we just have, like, a minute in a minute or so left, so details of registration. Where do we

[00:35:58.54] spk_2:
go with the dates? Radio? Don’t even say the day everything. But the date is today.

[00:36:10.72] spk_7:
Yes, the dates are March 24th 26 it’s in Baltimore. At the convention center. There’s hotels of all the various price points, whatever place you have, a membership number two, whatever, all around the convention center, and you can go toe intend that orc Slash and T. C. You can see the full agenda. You can review some of those community programs I was talking about. We’ve got Rachel Affinity Spaces support for folks who want prayer room, meditation spaces, lactation access. All of those things are part of our conference. So we really want it to be something that folks are ready to learn and meet other people and talk. This is a resource for you. And if there’s a way we can make it easier support you being able to participate, we will do everything we can to do that. So please Goto intend that work slash NPC. Check it out. If you need anything, let us know. But hopefully we see you in March.

[00:37:05.76] spk_0:
This is an excellent conference. Yeah, I’ve been there. I think this is the sixth year.

[00:37:10.06] spk_2:
Do you think I think it’s the 60

[00:37:20.04] spk_0:
year I’ve brought the show, so we will be on the exhibit floor where were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software at the conference. So we’ll be side by side. We’ll be getting. I’ll be getting 30 plus interviews. Last year I got 32 interviews in two and 1/2 days, and then we air them. That

[00:37:28.44] spk_7:
must have been a record. 30.

[00:37:45.78] spk_0:
32 is the is the largest I’ve gotten. Yeah, it had been like 25 27 or so, but so were booked up. Eso. When you’re at the conference, come on the exhibit floor. I believe you’ll see us in boots 5 10 and 5 12 On DDE comes he’s come Say hello will be the noisy one with probably with spotlights, because we might shoot video. So but very smart, very smart speakers in lots of different topics around technology. And Amy’s Point is, I want to drive home. We’re all technologists. It regardless of what it says on your business card, you’re no longer using index cards and transparencies. You know, the overhead projectors. They’re gone. We’re all using technology, and this conference is for people at all different levels. Whether it’s on your in your job title as C I O. Or You’re just a user of technology

[00:38:22.71] spk_2:
and you have to say good bye. Thank you very much.

[00:38:24.45] spk_7:
Okay, thank you so much. And I will see what your booth. Because I always loved getting to do an interview with you.

[00:38:29.16] spk_2:
Absolutely. It’s our only time to go face to face. Yes, we’ll see you. I’ll see you in Baltimore.

[00:38:36.00] spk_0:
All right. Thank you for that indulgence. Alex Count. It’s usually

[00:38:38.44] spk_4:
a great conference or close to where I live. Yeah, it is fabulous. Maybe I’ll see you. There is

[00:38:49.80] spk_0:
really a very smart place. Hundreds of brilliance because I wish I could interview more than the 32 or so whatever I’ll get. Um so just remind listeners Alex counts. Ah, consultant, founder of Grameen Foundation. And his book is Changing the World without Losing your mind. Leadership lessons from three decades of social entrepreneurship. We’re just scratching the surface. You know, where we’re We’re focused on the CEO chair relationship today, but obviously the book goes way beyond

[00:39:11.33] spk_3:
that. Uh,

[00:39:24.52] spk_2:
lots of lessons in 30 years. Now it’s Ah, you got a good You got a young face. You got a baby face. Check out, check out his, uh, check out his headshot tony-martignetti dot com’s gonna baby face. Um, So let’s, uh we divert a little bit, but these are all valuable topics.

[00:39:28.92] spk_0:
I mean, this board evaluation process is semi annual thing is really very interesting. I hadn’t heard anything

[00:39:35.22] spk_3:
like that. Um,

[00:39:36.96] spk_2:
let’s talk Thio. Let’s talk to

[00:39:43.47] spk_0:
communications. You like you like frequent regular communications between the CEO and the chair.

[00:40:28.73] spk_4:
Yes. I mean, there’s no. You know, when you when you talk with someone, you come in. Mike, come on with an agenda of what you think is going on the organization, but especially if you’re not rushed on your in person, where that’s possible, you know, you stumble upon in the process of just kind of ruminating on what’s going on the organization, some opportunities and assets and some kind of dangers and risks that you didn’t even go in thinking about because you’re you know, you’re with someone who’s also internalized. The organization is smart, is committed on DSO. I always, you know, I would wouldn’t want to talk with Susan or Bob or Palm or it’s, you know, have have kind of regular calls, you know, maybe two or three a month, but also in with a strict agenda but also sometimes has really unstructured. You know, it’s been a long dinner with them and, ah, a mixture of bonding and just kind of, you know, thinking out loud brainstorming and and just really kind of creative ideas can come up there. And if you’re I did tell a story. One of my board shares went from being semi retired of a very demanding job three years into his role. And while he did stick with it for another two years, which surprised me my ability to spend time with him, quality unstructured on rushed time was compromised. And and that was and I missed that. And our partnership suffered a little bit. As a result, he was still very good and because of his job, had more money to put into the organization. But his ability to kind of have that Maur kind of on structure brainstorming time was severely constrained.

[00:41:16.49] spk_0:
Yeah, Yeah, it was more just a formal time together. Yeah.

[00:41:21.06] spk_2:
And you think about think about friends, you, How much just happens

[00:41:28.85] spk_0:
in free conversation over over a meal in a glass of wine. You

[00:41:47.13] spk_4:
think of some something to do together that just you hadn’t even thought of and just being in their presence. You’re like, Well, why don’t we try that, um and and so that that time together again, so many of these things Fundraising, managing board relationships. They’re very time consuming. But when you do them well and invest the time, it’s just they pay back many, many times, but you need to be able to kind of spend the time on what you know, my wife and I call the important but not urgent on If you invest in that, just magical things can happen.

[00:42:01.10] spk_2:
And then this kind

[00:42:01.89] spk_0:
of thing you have to make time for you aren’t gonna find the time when I when I find the time will, will have an unstructured meeting. But today we’re having an agenda. When I find the time when we find the time to get

[00:42:12.38] spk_2:
time is not gonna tap you on the shoulder and make itself apparent that you have to make the time. There’s never gonna come in timers. I’ve got two free hours today. Let’s have a meeting with meeting with. I’ll have a call with my board chair. It’s not gonna happen. You have to make the time consciously

[00:43:04.04] spk_4:
and you know, and it’s also becomes something, if you know is it can’t became with each my board shares, particularly Bob like Failed and Susan, where I just enjoyed being around them. They had a lot of grace for me when I made mistakes. They kind of puffed up my ego. When I was doing well, we found common interests or developed them on. They never took cheap shots at me, even in private. If they were going to be constructive, they tried the most sensitive way to do it. That didn’t deflate me. And so it just it ends up being. Gosh, I went. When do I get my next time with Susan? Tony Learn Thio kind of, you know, to commiserated, to celebrate. It’s just always like a special thing. And so you know, they make more time for it, and you developing that personal chemistry. Even if you’re very different people like we were, you could develop it, but it it it needs to be a, you know, a high priority

[00:43:19.30] spk_0:
on. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows in the C e o chair relationship. Like any relationship, let me take this last break and we’ll come back to Gilling with tension points.

[00:43:31.35] spk_2:
Turn to communications. Do you find yourself scratching

[00:43:39.57] spk_0:
your head, wondering how some nonprofits always seem to get mentioned in the news? It’s not because they’re big here. We are talking about relationships. It’s because they have relationships with journalists when they don’t want to be quoted, they just have

[00:43:48.44] spk_2:
a relation. They’re not looking for something they have a relationship

[00:43:59.65] spk_0:
of standing relationship with journalists turn to can help you do that. Their former journalists, including from the Chronicle of Philanthropy. So you want to build those relationships in advance. So when the news breaks and you can contribute to it and want to be seen on an issue, you’ve got the standing relationship. Your call, most likely more likely than not, will be taken over not having that standing relationship. They return hyphen to dot CEO.

[00:45:00.25] spk_2:
Let’s do the live listener love and there’s quite a bit of it we are in. Ah, it’s the start. Domestic Woodbridge, New Jersey Tampa, Florida New York New York multiple. Glad to see you. Thank you very much. New York, um, live love to each of those cities as well. A Seattle, Washington in Chicago, Illinois, um, as well as Lincoln’s in North Carolina. Well, cool North Carolina. I’m in Emerald Isle, not today, but, uh, live love. I’ve loved to each of our domestic live listeners. Now let’s go abroad. Seoul, South Korea. Always so loyal. I’m always so grateful. Seoul, South Korea Multiple listeners Annual Hasso comes a ham Nida Woodbridge, New Jersey

[00:45:05.27] spk_0:
No, I’m sorry. That’s not fair. Not that’s That’s, uh that’s not foreign. That’s not very funny.

[00:45:07.74] spk_2:
I’m from New

[00:45:08.17] spk_0:
Jersey. So you know, I’m from I grew up in Rutherford Multiple,

[00:45:44.57] spk_2:
Fukuoka, Fukuoka, Japan. Often we have Japanese listeners. Thank you, Japan. Konnichi wa um Chapultepec de Chapultepec Day. Hinojosa, Mexico When I started this when you start this France Rahm bouquet that was the same city was with us last week as well. Rambo. Yea. And I apologize if I’m not pronouncing it right. But live love Thio out to our for listeners officers in France, um, Oxford in the United Kingdom and also in Korea Sue on Oh, someone else. Besides, uh um besides soul thank you. Live love out to you. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Moscow. We’re, uh not quite Everyone say every hemisphere I mean every continent, but we’re close live love

[00:46:45.55] spk_0:
to each of our live listeners. Thank you so much for being with us and the podcast pleasantries toward over 13,000 listeners. In the podcast Pleasantries to you. I thank you for being with us week after week, whether you binge it all and listen to eight episodes on a weekend or you’re spreading it out. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners. Um, that was our Ah, live. Listen, love in the podcast pleasantries. And now back to, uh, CEO chair relationship, which we’ve got butt loads more time for. Ah, and Alex counts. Okay, Moments of tension. They’re gonna crop up

[00:47:51.47] spk_4:
inevitable in a certain way. Healthy. I remember. And in the article I talked just referenced in passing that, you know, one time I had some tension with Susan Davis and I went to the vice chair kind of probably overreacting to that and wanted to try play Mommy off against Daddy or something, you know. And Yvette Dyer, who is our vice chair at the time, said very profound and basically said, You know, the tension is an inbuilt part of that relationship, even when it’s the healthiest. And as I thought about that more I thought about you know, your non profit executive directors. Sometimes they’re too aggressive, they need to be reined in, and the board feels it. But it’s really the responsibility that share to give that feedback. On the other hand, some this wasn’t so much my fault, but some executive directors and CEOs are too cautious. I need to be pushed to be more aggressive and had Ah, And again that will come, uh, probably is the sense of the board, but often best conveyed by the chair. And initially, that may not be that well received, um, and and may create some tension. But again, there’s in all healthy relationships, especially this one. That’s that’s one of the aspects of it. And once I realized that and you see, I had the benefit when I was working with Susan, that I’d already been the chair of another non profit board. She had previously been the executive director of a nonprofit, so we kind of understood you

[00:48:12.53] spk_0:
had been in each other’s roles. Very important, always

[00:48:15.15] spk_4:
possible. But but but actually quite it valuable it You’ve kind of sat in that person’s, you know, chair and and you can understand a little bit more why they’re doing what they’re doing on DDE. And so that that tension just was, you know, was really part and parcel of a healthy relationship. Is, as I came to see, not didn’t see that you immediately

[00:48:36.62] spk_2:
too timid sometimes CEOs in what respect? Not aggressive. Just

[00:50:05.15] spk_4:
say, you know whether it’s setting their annual goals for, you know, whatever societal positive impact they want. Or some CEOs want a stockpile money rather than spend it on their programs of their team star of the organization. Just because they just they’re always worried about running out of money. So or sometimes it’s about, for example, keeping it a non performing employees on giving them one more chance that could go on for four or five years and on. And, you know, there was one case where I probably stuck with it. A chief operating officer longer than I should and a board chair came in and said, You know, when you’re gonna ease him out. You know, he’s creating a lot of dissension in the organization. Even that was raging, reaching the level of the board. And I needed to be pushed Thio to recognize that this person wasn’t performing and so get my errors would tend to be more about being too aggressive, too much of a risk taker, and I would need to be reined in. But like I had my examples where I was foot dragging and on the board. If the board doesn’t tell you that your your staff probably won’t directly on dhe. You know they’re the ones that to be a kind of observe your performance and push you. And of course, ultimate decision usually remains yours. But if you don’t follow that enough, you’ll find yourself out of a job at some point. And so if there’s a there’s a kind of a creative tension there,

[00:50:06.72] spk_0:
particularly staff won’t tell you if it’s the c 00 that we’re talking about. Yep, that’s the source.

[00:50:13.58] spk_2:
You liketo have staff participate, attend

[00:50:21.06] spk_0:
and participate board inboard means and not just the C suite. Yeah, that’s what

[00:50:21.61] spk_4:
I did something that people who it

[00:50:24.35] spk_2:
kind of

[00:50:51.40] spk_4:
naturally evolved in Grameen Foundation, where from when we had a very small staff initially is you know, I would have some staff that would present to the board. Maybe they weren’t as good at presenting his. I was. Maybe they were better, but but to give them that experience, to demystify what the board is by having them, and the board could see the quality of staff I had, whether it was, hopefully they were impressed. Sometimes they’re, like, you know, realize that you had why I had to step in and do this, but I ultimately not only had the senior staff as we grew, you know, sit around the board table and either present or observed, but I would say any available staff member quite radical. Could you sit in an outer ring and observe? And it just it had this kind of ability to demystify the board where a lot of non profit employees like

[00:51:08.63] spk_2:
What is

[00:52:23.45] spk_4:
the board do and they’re not doing enough. And what’s their role? And why do we have to work so hard to prepare these board meetings and when they can actually sit there and observe the board deliberating and we would we would go one step further, which is where a t end of the board meeting the board would all leave board members except for the chair, and I would facilitate a debrief with all the staff who were present. Summons might be 2025 staff members, and they could all say, I thought the board had a really intelligent conversation about that. I thought that they totally avoided this topic and had a really, you know, bad discussion about it, and we would just we wouldn’t try to argue them. And so it because a lot of people came to work for me, as I learned is that the board was this mysterious thing where the CEO would go off in a room and maybe the CFO would make a 45 minute presentation and then be ushered out of the room. And it just felt like a this kind of secret society that was making decisions about them that they had no visibility into. And I kind of went the other way of just absolute transparency, including sometimes the board. My staff would see the board grilling me, and they would see me sometimes perform well and defend their interests. You know, some board member wants a new program that made no sense, and I would say, No, we’re not gonna do that makes no sense. And sometimes they’d see me stumble. But again, it just made it more of a human, just just just a group of people trying to help us in a different type of role than you have and let them watch you at times and you get to watch them perform and evaluated and and so it just took all that mysteriousness out of it, and I thought was healthy. Now, at times, you know, I did. I have an occasional board member say, Well, what

[00:52:43.95] spk_2:
if we What if

[00:52:47.15] spk_4:
we close down this whole project? You know, maybe that would be a good idea. And then the people running that project sitting in the background Does it cause anxiety that you need to manage? Yes, there were. There were problems with that. But the benefits way far outweigh the costs in my mind.

[00:53:01.32] spk_0:
Okay. Interesting. Yeah, The typical is staff member of presents, and then is, as you said, ushered out. Yeah.

[00:53:12.65] spk_2:
All right. Awesome. Opening our minds. Um, you have some thoughts

[00:53:13.51] spk_0:
about upgrading aboard where we have, like, two minutes or so left or something. So

[00:53:18.60] spk_2:
we got a good

[00:53:19.21] spk_0:
Okay, we have about three minutes left up the timeto upgrade first. What do you mean by upgrading aboard? Well,

[00:54:16.61] spk_4:
I I believe that I’ve studied it. That about 80% of non profit boards in this country or some version of dysfunctional either micromanaging or only 80 or well, you think that low occasionally I say that I ask people who challenge me and more often it’s that they think it It’s more than that. But whatever most up a solid majority and the reason s O I. What I say is, Is that it? You know, if you’re upgrading, I’m saying, if you want to take a dysfunctional board to mediocre or a mediocre board too high performing it could be done. But you need to do a couple things. One. Is there no quick fixes? If anyone tells you they can turn a board materially increase their performance in 90 days, adopting you know, four techniques. It’s not gonna happen if if you want to increase the quality aboard materially, significantly mark your calendar 3 to 5 years in the future. And one of the things I most often hear from executive directors is, Well, I’m gonna wait for my board to start performing, and then I’ll really engage them on and support them. But they need to prove to me, and I said, No, that’s the wrong way. Look at it. You need to start treating them now. Whoever is on that treat them now is if they’re high performing, bored, invest in them that way and then given a couple years of lag time, they’ll emerge to be the board that you deserve. But you need to treat them now like they’re the board that you deserve, even though they’re not yet, um, and so

[00:54:47.20] spk_2:
that may just

[00:54:47.78] spk_4:
spending intensive time, helping to create real wins for them and a great experience of being on the board, which is gonna be different for each board member

[00:54:55.99] spk_0:
and challenging them to spend more time to get more responsibility.

[00:54:59.46] spk_2:
That’s right, but also

[00:55:00.20] spk_4:
making it making it pleasurable and enjoyable for them to do so not because their guilt or manipulation, but just out of a sense of opportunity. So again I go into in the book, I talk about how once that once I kind of got that at the care and feeding of board members. I think most executive directors and CEO spend probably could spend 3 to 4 times Maur of their time and effort in cultivating these board members. And the payback is immeasurable. But it’s it’s not gonna happen 90 days if if you’re if you’re gonna just read an article in the Stanford Social Innovation Review, apply a few techniques and then you know are they performing better in 90 days. It’s just not. That’s not how groups evolve and function. But if you do it over an extended period aboard, and then you just add one good new member a year. Ah, and they raised the level of everyone a little bit, and that’s that’s how this goes. But if you stick with it for a couple of years, it could be miraculous.

[00:55:59.64] spk_0:
We’re gonna leave it there. That’s outstanding. Is Alex counts his book again, changing the world without Losing your mind? Leadership lessons from three decades of social entrepreneurship. You’ll find him at Alex counts dot com and at Alex,

[00:56:14.52] spk_2:
counts. Thanks so much, Thank you Pleasure. Next week, our Innovators,

[00:56:30.41] spk_0:
Siri’s continues with the return of Peter Shankman on neuro Diversity. What that means for you as an employer and for your employees, the those who are New road divergent. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com

[00:56:41.16] spk_2:
by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is

[00:56:59.82] spk_0:
there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative

[00:57:00.60] spk_2:
producer is Claire Meyerhoff.

[00:57:41.08] spk_5:
Sam Liebowitz is the line producer on the board shows. Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York, with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for August 16, 2019: Manage Your Programs With A CRM & Co-Learning For Your Programs

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Transcript for 453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.mp3 Processed on: 2019-08-17T15:38:37.521Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…08…453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.mp3.32272577.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/08/453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. I’m firing a listener. Steph Marie p. Left this iTunes review on March 11th 2018. Quote content is great. Okay, but universal. No. Gator cancels everything preceding it. Tony often chastises his guests or asks a question and then bulldozes them When they reply, it can get awkward and off putting. For example, a guest started off a response with good question, Tony. And he admonished the guest for saying that rude and weird. End quote. Steph, Marie P. Get off my show off. I want you to stop listening. I do not want you to be listening to my words. You don’t get me. I am in no way going to try to explain me to you because it would be over your head. You don’t have a sense of Well, maybe you do have a sense of humor. I’m not gonna go at home now. I’m not gonna go there. Maybe you have a lovely sense of humor. But you don’t share mine or you don’t even get mine. Let you don’t have to share it. You just have to understand it and you don’t. So I want you off the show. So here’s what I would implore you. I beseech you to do first. Unsubscribes Don’t stop yet. Don’t pause and stop yet. I want you to go. Whatever platform you’re listening is probably iTunes. That’s where your review was. Unsubscribes unsubscribes. Okay, now then you have to do that. Come back. Hit. Stop Not pause because we’re stopping. Stop and go away. Do not listen to this show again. Next thing I know, you’ll be chastising me because I’m lewd and weird to imaginary interns. You don’t get me and you never will. Please stop listening, Steph. Marie P. Get off my show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. Now that Steph miree P is gone. I can say that with enormous confidence I’d be hit with favoritism if you beaned me with the idea that you missed today’s show Its program day manager program with a c. R m. The Rite CR M can help you run day to day program operations, track client relationships and outcomes. Host training’s manage certifications, organized transportation and Maur. Our panel was recorded at 19 NTC and there, Jake Grinstead from simply 3 60 Leah kopperman with Cash, Chi Williams at the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council and Meta Channel from Top Cloud Consulting and Co. Learning for Your Programs. This 19 ntcdinosaur encourages you to look at a more collaborative training culture, which pushes the bounds of Who is the educator. They’re Deborah askanase at Oracle Met Sweet the Sheik, A. Phillips with Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martin from J. Camp 1 80 on Tony’s Take two Living Trusts Responsive by Wagner, C. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission turned hyphen to DOT CEO. I feel so much better. Burden off my shoulders here is manage your programs with a C. R M. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 and T. C. You know that it’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. You know that we’re coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. What you don’t know is that I am now with Jake Grinstead, Leah kopperman, Chi Williams and Meta Channel, and their seminar topic is not just for fund-raising anymore. Managing programs With C R M zsystems You also know that all of our 19 NTC interviews are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Let’s meet the panel. They are again Jake Grinstead. He’s founder of simply 3 60 Leah kopperman, director of data and C. R. M at Kesha Chi Williams is the executive director at the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council, and methanol is seated furthest from me. And she’s the principal at Top Cloud Consulting. Welcome. Happy to be here. Have all four of you. It’s a big panel, but way can accommodate Absolutely. Thank you. So I’m not sure is this is this, uh, let’s start down at the end with the metal. Is this is emerging, or is Am I just not aware that your C R M database can be used to manage programs? You’re welcome to say that I’m just not aware. Yeah. So it has been around for a while, but definitely in the nonprofit world, it is an emerging awareness that it can be used for a program metoo management. Okay. And what, Metta, Let’s stay with you. What do we need to have in place so that we can do this way? Just need us, C r m databases that it, or are there other things we need to have? No. So you have to have the right kind of serum because not all CR ends in the market right now are capable of supporting program data. So you need to have right tools and write features in the Sierra system to support this. Okay, Right kind of cr M. Okay. Uh, so we’ll come back to that because we have 1/2 an hour together. Um uh, let’s see. Hey, why don’t you sort of give us Ah, a headline and a lead? Uh, that anything more? You could say that to introduce us to this. Yeah, I think that while using serums for program management and it’s itself not new, it’s much more broadly recognized. My organization, I felt like even just four years ago, Coming on working on ours for five years ago, people were like, That’s Syrians are for fund-raising. And I’m like, No, this makes sense. This is how it’s gonna work for us. And I had this vision and I was able to find the people that work with, but it wasn’t a conversation anyone else was having. And now I go into a session and everybody’s like, Let’s talk about program management. So are you a pioneer or early adopter? Early A doctor. I think the pioneers were way before me. All right, All right. Leo, what’s the advantage of doing this? Well, I wanted to also remarked that the organization that I’m with Kesha we’ve been using C r. M to manage our program since 2012. So we were really early adopter Warren earlier. You weren’t. You sure you want a pioneer? Why can’t I personally wasn’t I was not with Kesha and 2012 with the organization. I would I would say so. Yeah, I think so. Okay. That’s not a scientific survey statement. It’s just got gut instinct. Think so? Okay. Yeah. Um, Lee also credits herself with being That makes it sound like nobody else believes it. I believe I do believe it. Teaching me how to sign a sign up for a Twitter. He had a start. My account on Twitter. Now we have Susan Chavez is my mind that the show and my company’s works from works as our social manager. But she was not the social manager in 20. We’re not sure where this 2014 or 15. We’ll have to look at what it will say. Joined. Right? Right. My name’s has joined it, I’m sure was maybe Susan can tell us. Okay, maybe she’ll look, I know it was not 16. I know. I’ve been on longer than 16. Okay. Uh, okay. And, uh, Jake, what’s the advantage to doing this? What? Why? Why? Why not just do it Separate different management for our programs? Sure. I think there are a few advantages of having a serum for non-profits programs, and one of them is allowing for more time for your program staff to really focus on what they do best. Focus on their passion, focus on why they were hired, and that’s to actually manage the programs that they have. So having a non-profit serum allows you to cut some of the administrative overhead that doing doing this type of work with multiple different systems, maybe on paper, maybe an excel, maybe in different databases. By bringing that together, you make it a lot simpler and cut down on that time. But what if the comparison is with ANAP location? That’s that’s designed for program management versus managing your program through the C. R. M? So I would argue that if it program is designed to manage your sorry if application is designed to manage the programs, it quite well might be a program crn that’s probably see around. We should probably back-up is giving you Siara here, Jake Constituent Relationship management. So it’s any application that helps manage the relationship that your organization has with your constituents and your constituents might be the people you serve in the fund-raising world. Obviously, it’s the donors and the people who help support you. But in the programme world, it’s those the people that are involved in your mission might be volunteers. It might be the people use serve. It might be others involved with whatever your mission is. All right. All right. So So since I got I gotta go, Leo. Because with grand grand, I’m sorry. I gotta go to Chi because of the grand theatrics that you gave Jake, I have to go back to you. So what are we? Wait, What are we talking about? Are we not talking about, Like, salesforce and razors edge yet for program management, right? We are we talking about Exactly. I would say that Razor’s edge doesn’t really support program blackbaud other blackbaud tools. D’oh! We’re talking about service. We are talking about a fund-raising C r m being used for a, uh, just just a c r M serum that theorems air, not natively just for fund-raising. Those xero ends there for any constituent management, although some are designed very much for fund-raising like Razor’s edge. But sales force. And that’s the reason my order, when we were doing all of our evaluations of many serums, they were out there in 2013. We ended up choosing that one because it was more of a platform that we could use for program management, Um, versus something that was just set up for fund-raising. But CR rims are for everything. I would argue that if you did not have a program cr em, you’re probably using sheets of paper or spreadsheets. That’s really the alternative. Okay. Okay. Well, that’s exactly what medicine to you have to have the right kind of cr m. Yes. Yeah, it’s time for a break, but, uh, Sam didn’t tell me. Now he did. Wagner CPS. They’ve got a free webinar on August 21st Fair labor standards act nuts, bolts and updates. Now, today is August 16th. So the odds of anyone listening live or archive, which means anybody, because that’s only two ways you can listen, if you could just say theon of anybody listening doesn’t matter. Live our archive. You’re wasting syllables here, Thea. Odds of anybody listening on August 21st are slim to xero. So watch the archive. Um uh, it’s a wagon or yeah, we call these waiting to call these things. These wagoner webinars webinars. So this wagon R is the Fair Labor Standards Act. Calculating regular rate of pay and overtime pay for employees or for yourself that counts. You count to understanding, paid versus unpaid time and a lot more. You’ll find this wagon are the archive thereof. At wagner cps dot com, you click resource is and then recorded events. Let’s do the live list or love. I feel like doing it early today. Um, starting native, starting domestic, I should say not. Maybe not native but domestic. Ah, Sacramento, California on Hollister, California and Tampa, Florida. And those were abroad will get their Hammond, Indiana, special Live listener love after Hammond, Indiana. Franconia, Virginia. Franconia, Alcohol Franconia. Know whether it is, um uh, no, that’s Peru. That’s abroad. I wish she would organize his better. Sam. Really? You could do a better job for me. What kind of support is this? It’s unbelievable. I don’t have interns or don’t even get producer support. So also all jumbled up between domestic and abroad. I gotta figure it out. Salt Lake City. All right, That’s, um I guess he would consider that domestic. Yeah. Salt Lake City, Utah Live. Listen, love. After you do New Bern, North Carolina Live love to the new burns. Ah, Hell’s Kitchen, New York. I love I love that Hell’s Kitchen shows up as a separate entity. It’s not New York, New York, it’s Hell’s Kitchen, and that’s the only neighborhood in New York where that happens. We don’t get we don’t see, um, Nomad or Dumbo or Upper East, but Hell’s kitchen specific. I love that. I admire that. How do you How do you do that helps get you probably even know what I’m ranting. I don’t even know what I’m talking about. Um Raleigh, North Carolina. Live love out to you as well. Cool. That’s a Carolina today. Um, Now let’s go abroad With which had a better organized list from Shanghai. Doesn’t do by continent during Times Hemisphere released. You could do atmosphere. That’s only four of those. For Christ sake, you could do atmosphere. It’s only four of them. Shanghai, Shanghai, China Showing how you with us often. Thank you so much for that For that loyalty. NI hao Ni Hao and Seoul SEOUL, South Korea Also so such loyal, loyal, live listener love the soul Annual haserot comes a ham Nida Mexico CITY, Mexico Witnessed our days when a star dies. Mexico City and Tehran, Iran. You’ve been checking in occasionally. Now, Tehran. Thank you for coming back. Um, our keep. Ah, Peru. That would be Ah, put yours up. Portuguese now? No, the only spanish. So I ve been a star days When a star days for arctic quip Peru Thank you for being with us. Um, that’s everybody abroad. And, uh so live lister, love. Thank you so much for being with us and the podcast pleasantries. Because we have over 13,000 people listening in the time shift and the pleasantries go out to you wherever we fit into your schedule. I’m grateful pleasantries to you, and we know that we are minus one. Where ah, 13. Like 13,500 minus one from now. Going forward. Not just this week. I’m not going to say her name anymore. Uhm And so why did I wait till you may be wondering why that we tell today this review from, uh, that person was march 11th 2018. I don’t check that often. I don’t I don’t look at the reviews like every month even, uh, but I have seen it. I have. I’ve seen it long before today. I just was ignoring it in the past. And then the last time I saw it, I don’t know. Whatever it was a month or so ago, it annoyed me. So So that’s why that’s why uh, no, I haven’t been annoyed for for these 18 months since March or something of last year. But I’ve been annoyed for the past week, a month or so, and now I’m over it. Therefore, we’re moving on to Ah, what we’re doing. We’re continuing, of course, with Jake Grinstead, Leah kopperman, Chi Williams and methanol talking about managing your programs with Sierra. One of the fundamental differences is that in fund-raising CR M in fund-raising world, right, The kind of fund-raising data that every organization maintains is fairly typical. So whereas for programs, that is a huge where I d And so your CNN system needs to be able to store and manage all those different kinds of data, that’s a prerequisite to be used as programs. Okay, Okay. Uh, so you were just backing up a little asking about, like, different kinds of Syrians. I’ve certainly worked in social service agencies where in the past they’ve had what’s called a case management system and that really is what the social service frontline staff would use to manage the clients that they work with. So that’s really very parallel Thio, the kind of idea that we’re talking about a program management system and the advantage of not having a separate program management system and a separate fund-raising system is often there’s overlap between who your constituents are, and somebody who participated in one of your programs may very well end up becoming a donor or somebody who participate. Somebody who’s a donor may become a volunteer, and if you’re managing your volunteer program and you’re managing your client base through the same system, then you have up to date information and email addresses. Postal address is interests, etcetera, and so you can use it both for the client and and for the fund-raising. All right, so I think I’m trainable here. But let’s make sure so you can have a generic C R M that will manage fund-raising and Andi program operations trainable. I would take this a step further and say, In addition to what Leo just said, your program crn might often be very helpful to your development. Your fund-raising department. There are so many times where your fund-raising team are going to need to ask the program team for certain statistics and reports and data about the programs that they run because they’re gonna need that for their grants and etcetera to do their fund-raising. And so if the data is in the same place. If everyone’s using the same tool, the same crn the development staff would be able to have access directly to the reports and the information about the programs that are being run without having to tie up program staff. Time to actually pull those that information separately. That’s another advantage of bringing those things together and what xero. OK, OK, in your program description. Have you done your program already? You have your on the downside. It’s great. Okay, um, nobody came with a glass of wine in the bar is open, even my drink. Okay, Jake, that is not water. I guess that’s vodka. Leah has a metal bottles. We don’t know what’s in that. Two women down the oak. That is already finished. I think I That’s Jim, not water. Alright, So good. I’m glad I’m not hindering the fun and excitement part of social part of 19 nineties E for any of you. Okay, so in your program, in your session description, you take off a whole bunch of things that can be run through a c. R. M. Tracking client relationships and outcomes run training’s manage certifications, organized transportation. Is it worth taking through. Is there enough to say about each of these about how the C R M should can be used to do each of those things? Or is that too much in the weeds? The way that we handled the panel was each of the four of us did like a case study, where we talkto sort of soup to nuts how we use our serum to manage one particular thing. I don’t think there’s enough time here to run through, but that that is how we handled it in case studies. My brief. I don’t know if you’ve got a little example of how shit uses when it might be helpful for sure so way. But we can. We could do brief examples. So you each have a different CR M doing something different. Yeah, because because all the organizations that we are working with or at our do different mission and Jake you’re the consultant here. No, I actually 36 from the founders simply for 60 were actually creating a C. R. M that is designed for programs. That’s why we started something for 60. I work from non-profit where we found it frustrating that we couldn’t find a good program. Cr m. And so with that organization I actually started and founded simply 3 60 to do that to fill that need. Okay, so in the session, I actually talks about one of our founding clients s O, That I use that as a case study and represented them talking about how having a program crn for them has been so helpful thing. American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey. Okay, Okay, I’m willing I’m willing to hear the case is from each of you, But you realize that we don’t have 75 minutes. So So I know on dhe. I appreciate that you aren’t all nodding, is it? But what happens when you start talking? You get into your stage hit, and all of a sudden you’re three minutes. Story becomes 12 minutes, and then we’re out of luck. So I have to cut off everybody else, and everybody will be pissed off at you. And they’ll wonder why they didn’t go to the drinks instead of coming here. Should have drinks. Why? I waste my time here because they didn’t get to tell the story. So everybody gets, uh, okay, so we’re 13 minutes. We’ll make this the longer sessions as 27 figure. We spent a minute bantering, so we’ll go to 28 which is about 15 divided by four. I’m impressed with math, but I haven’t finished it yet. 15 divided by four is less than four. It’s like three minutes and 1/2. So everybody gets about three and 1/2 minutes. I’m gonna I’m gonna try my best. All right? So everybody gets three minutes and 30 seconds on Duh. At the three minute mark, I’m gonna let you know that you only have 30 seconds left and we’re gonna hold you to this s o I since I feel bad. That meta is sitting at the end doesn’t have a devoted Mike. And I feel second bad for, um, for Kai, who also is has to share my So let’s start at the end. With Metta, you have three and 1/2 minutes to tell the story at, um top cloudgood. The top cloud consulting shared in the Okay. Get closer to the study of one of the clients I work with. The organization worked in the areas of health and wellness. They programs such as individual and group therapy for physical humans on wellness programs. So before I started working with them, they were managing their data. Alden spreadsheets. It was spread all throughout the organization with all the program teams. Every time that the team’s wanted to pull any kind of report, they were pulling that out of individual spreadsheets and manually formatting into the desert former and that was taking them days. Thio create a report. So number one it was a giant waste of organizations. Resource is on number two. Everybody knew that pulling the report was like pulling teeth, so they were not even using reports as much as they should. So after we moved there, they tied to the Syrian system. The reports were quick, instant, instantly available up to date, not for five days old on the organization started using reports as a feature much more frequently because it was available so much more easily. That’s so concisely I didn’t get to give you a warning. Uh, you’re here a little more You want to say Okay, tell our stories, and maybe, maybe maybe maybe the host will develop some questions. You black lackluster. Who’s No? No, you still get your three minutes? You still get your three? What? I say three and 1/2 actually. Three minute warning. He’s cutting it down, so I don’t know, You know, meta exceed XL, but you could be You’re welcome to be lackluster. Please. OK, eso I work with the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council. We provide training and resource is on wildlife rehabilitation. We have membership. We have classes, we have certification. We have a practicum. We use our serum to manage all that often. It’s the same people doing all of that. And then maybe they have an extra $5 they’re helping us out with the $5. Or maybe they’re volunteering for us. So we get to see all of that before we have C R. M. We had an old system and we actually lose data. Wait, hold on. I’m sorry, Amy. Sabat Ward, Stop distracting the guest on top of radio. You had your chance. You had your shot. Just distracted CEO of intent is distracting, distracting Leah and J everybody making this wave on camera. All right, I’ll spot you an extra 15 2nd All right? Yeah. So before we had our modern serum. We were losing data like we have a registration that would get lost because the system in between one server and the computer, it would just disappear. So we have people showing up for classes and we have no record of them. Really. A lot of issues with trust, all sorts of problems. So with the modern serum were able Thio one have everything in one place. I know to trust our data. We haven’t come directly from our website into our system. We’re able to track our measure, tracked measurements, assessment of how the students are doing, how they’re engaging with us. It’s It’s quite an interesting set up, Andi, I guess I want to mention one interesting thing we found as we talk about our case studies because they’re all very different. You know, I’m contracting with hosts and doing sending certificates to students and all the stuff that happens in between there. But we found this similar framework. We are all even though our products are very different. The steps we need to go to are very similar and so we’re hoping to kind of create some data models for other non-profits to dues to be ableto have program management CR ems. And how are you? How are you collecting that? Well, I’m working with a couple of different groups on that, but user user studies just people. It’s really just people like the four of us getting together and walking through these scenarios and saying, Oh, okay. This flows into this, which is this, and this is always an assessment piece. Even if you might not call it assessment. This is your registration, your enrollment, something that sort. This is your program piece. Oh, this might be an add on. If you have a case management your assessment might be Did they find a resolution? But there’s these really core similarities, and so I’m excited to see where that goes. Okay, I appreciate that. You actually did accept my admonition. Thio keep things concise. Haven’t given a three minute warning yet. Okay, now, Leo, don’t blow it, okay? I’ll do my best. Really? Okay, so So it kiss it. We air the LGBT Q Jewish organization in the US, where national and focus on our mission Shin is too have full inclusion of LGBT Q Jews in Jewish life and one of our programs that we do is where we train the leaders of Jewish organizations to have more inclusive environments for sorry for Jews who are participating. And it’s not the water over the vodka. So we that we do in sort of regional programs and we do a year long program, say, in Chicago, where the Jewish Community Center and the bunch of synagogues and the, uh, I don’t know if there’s a Jewish community foundation. Whatever the Jewish organizations are in the area, they all commit to this year long program and we offer them training and help them set goals to make their organizations more inclusive. And we provide them with coaching services over the course of the year and the way that our Sierra Miss and then at the end of the year, they you know, sort of report back to us through a survey about, uh, how they felt about being participants. And so the way that we manage that program with our serum and we happened to use sales force is that we way use existing data in the sales force. Instance toe understand what communities might be the next ones to offer a program in right Well, look, we’ll see. OK, we have enough people, maybe in Cincinnati, that maybe that’s the next community. Well, where will offer a program? And then we can do marketing using that C R M to the all the Jewish professionals working in Cincinnati and and advertise the program and reach out and say, We’re going to be running this and will you enroll? Then we have a sign up process where organizations will sign up and add the that information about their organizations baseline measures of where their organization is at in terms of Do they have gender neutral bathrooms? Do they have a new LGBT clue of LGBT affirmative group in their community? Do they have a bullying policy? You know, all these different kinds of measures. We asked them up front when they fill out the form and they tell us where they are, is a baseline. And then they, during the program, set a bunch of goals. Those all their goals go into our serum and then our coach has access to all those goals and works with them over the course of the year. Two. Help them reach those goals. All those girls also populate a dashboard that we have in the serum, that our executive leadership can look at any time and see 80% of the current leadership project. Participants are you know, they have started on 40% of their goals. They are still waiting to start on 10 and they so we can see they can see the progress without having to ask anybody. That’s just there in the dashboard. And our fund-raising team can also use that to make a case to a donor because it’s just right there in front of them. They can log in any time and do that so and then at the end they do a survey and we and we find out one of the things we want to do is change mind set, openness, three minute warning, okay. And we want to change the mindset of the participating organizations. So we asked them at the end did they see new opportunities for LGBT inclusion in their communities. And one of our measures is what percentage of organizations reported that and we have about 80% of our participants reporting that they did see new opportunities for inclusion. So it’s been very successful all right, Jake. So yes. So one of my founding clients, the American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey. They are an affiliation of summer camps in the United States, and their mission is to help in rich lives through the camp experience. So they help train camp staff. They help parents figure out which camps to send their children to and just generally promote the can’t summer camp experience in United States. Um and so I want to touch on another potential benefit of a program serum that we haven’t been touched on already. But we haven’t properly articulated yet, which is the benefit that it can give to constituents themselves. So the people who are actually benefiting from the program can really benefit from their organization having a program xero. And I’m gonna give you an example of how at the American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey, they have this amazing program. This wonderful lady there named Rene, who is in charge of helping parents find the right summer camp for their children. And she works oftentimes one on one with parents to help them find the camp. It would be good for them and so what we were able to do once we had all of the camp, all the member camps that are affiliated with this organization into a program. Crn we were able to start exposing that information on their website directly and gave parents a chance to go to the website, fill out a form as to what their children might be interested in. You know how long the camp should be, How much it should cost nb be able to actually search for summer camps right there on because they had now this one see Iran, where all of their camps were together. They could trust that the information that was e-giving that was being given out on the website would be accurate to these parents. So then parents could actually indicate that they were interested in the camp camps, then had a member’s portal through the sea Iran that they could log into on dhe. Then camps could see which parents had indicated their interest. They could also now register for training events. They could basically take advantage of all the benefits that the was giving them. So by using simply 3 60 in this case, they were actually able to give both their member camps and the parents that they served better access to their own information to the information is in the system and better serve them with the programs that they have. Can anybody else site benefits to the those they’re serving constitutent people themselves? Well, maybe not people, but the environment. The what? I like Jakes. He didn’t say it, but he has one aboutthe texting. Oh, sure. So another organization I’ve worked with has they run programs for kids, toe, get kids out into the countryside for the summertime incredible organization on. And they they have bus loads of children that get on the buses at the Port Authority. But you work for me, work for any schools, or is this all play time for this is this is a thing. So what happened is I was in college in London and I found, became a counselor to summer camp, and that was it. Camp was like the rest of my life. I was obsessed with this. So this organization runs five summer camps, and the kid’s got on buses. They went out to the countryside, but then, when the buses came home There was often this situation where parents might be late to pick up their children or they didn’t know exactly when the buses would arrive. Maybe the buses would come early. And so, by using a program, Sierra and we suddenly had this ability to send out mass text messages. Two parents, as the buses were sort of a narrow waves. Often, arroway whatever and say, Hey, just so you know, your child’s on their way home, Can’t wait to see you. Please make sure your at this place at this time and that we hadn’t even anticipated that this could be something we could do with a program. Xero. So what we actually talked about in our in our session was this idea that there are sometimes these unexpected benefits as well on dhe. This was a great one for us. Yeah, you’ve been You’ve been listening for a while. You have a question, But you have a question you like to ask. Oh, okay. You know what? I’m gonna shut you out. What’s your name? Joanne. Joint. Crabtree joined Crabtree from Washington from Washington non-profits in Vancouver, Washington State of Washington. So Joanne missed a session not just for fund-raising anymore managing programs with the arm zsystems and came here to listen to this. 30 minutes, 30 minutes. Short version. Thank you, Joanne. Thank you very much. Check out non-profit radio. We have way. Have lots of good panels. Not This isn’t the only one we do lots of good stuff. Thank you, Joanne. Okay, Um, we just have Yeah, okay. Anybody else want to shout out? Ah, a constituent benefit. Because I think that we’re here for the people or the environment or the animals. We’re, you know, we’re serving anybody else Want to shout out a constituent benefit, but has to be in, like, 30 seconds? Okay, Get much closer in one of the organizations that I worked with the program data and fund-raising data was separated on the program. Later was once we combined the two systems and brought the program later into the CIA room along with the fund-raising data, it’s suddenly help. The organization will stop, get along with each other much better, because previously, there was a lot of this manual data exchange between the two teams and the teens were frustrated, like concentrated, questing and not receiving the data that they want benefit not only to the recipients, but to the provider’s as well. All right, we got to leave it there. Thank you so much. Thanks, Tony. Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you’re welcome. They are Jake Grinstead, founder of simply 3 60 Leah kopperman, director of data. And see our Emmett Cash Guy Williams, executive director of the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council. And Mitya Nadal, principal at Top Cloud Consulting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. Thank you, Joanne. Joanne Crawford. Thank you. Are our audience member for the panel. And of course, all our panels are brought to you by our partners. That act blew in while we’re here in 1990 Sea ActBlue free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Need to take a break. See how Sam gave me the proper proper See when I get good support, the show runs. If I could just get decent support from everyone, we need to take a break. Oh, I said that host sucks. Cougar Mountain software, Cougar Mountain software quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund fairly simple to use, and the training to be helped the training to be very helpful. I need an intern so bad, so I have somebody to blame for this ship. Copy. It’s unbelievable, and the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring. End quote. That’s Laurie D. Oh, God, Lord, he’s from a church. I’m sorry. I don’t know if Laurie Listen, Um, another quote. All the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost. End. Quote. That’s Kim T. From Lawrence Township Cookie Mountain software. That’s what this is all about. They have a free 60 day trial. You’ll find that on the list in our landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now time for Tony’s Take two living trusts. You start your plan giving program with charitable bequests. That’s definitely the place to start. You’ve heard that mantra many times from my lips. If you want to go further and you don’t have to, you could just stop with requests and have a very respectable, planned giving program. But if you want to go further living trusts or revocable living trust. That’s an excellent next step. It’s easy for everybody to understand, for you and for your donors. My Living Trust video is at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s do a live listener love update since we did it early Now more people have checked in Ann Arbor, Michigan is with us. New York, New York, New York. See, I’m sorry you can’t be in Hell’s Kitchen in New York, New York If you were in Hell’s Kitchen, you would have got you. We got shouted out as Hell’s Kitchen, but you’re elsewhere. Just New York, New York. But glad you’re with us. Live, love to you. And also Osaka, Japan, Japan. Checking in. Thank you, Konnichi wa and young son, South Korea. On your haserot comes a ham Nida. Thank you for joining us Live love to all of our live listeners. And now it’s time for Cole earning for your programs. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990. See, that’s 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me Now our Deborah askanase, Latika Phillips and Kevin Martin. Seated next to me is Debra. She’s the social impact manager for capacity building programs at Oracle. That Sweet Shikha is a program manager at NGO Source and grantmaker. Success four. NGO Source and grantmaker maker Success at Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martone is technology program manager at Jay Camp 1 80 a program of the Harold Grinspoon Foundation that was the longest I’m out of breath already with dellaccio sources into Kevin is a program, but he’s not the foundation, but he’s a program Oracle Met Suites. Two words. I’m exhausted already. Introductions. OK, your program topic was Reinvigorate your programs through multi directional learning. Let’s start with down the end. Kevin Martin, Please let’s define our terms. What are we talking about? This multi directional learning? Great. So Avery jargon e-giving drug in jail on non-profit radio. It will get the three of you out of jail in our session. We definitely We started pretty early explaining what that actually meant. So Okay, so I’m not the only one I know So So, um, really, the the session in this topic is really about his, you know, Traditionally, sessions are one way there’s someone on stage, whether it’s a lecture or in a webinar or some other training’s environment, who all the knowledge is going from that person who’s the expert to the audience. The learner, right? So multi directional is. I’m not assuming that that person has all the knowledge in the room that instead you’re embracing the fact that everyone in a training program has knowledge and expertise. And so you have learning from learning toe Lerner, Lerner, the teacher and teachers. So it’s all different direction, really, So So can I expect to pay less for conferences in the future. And I’m part of the training staff. I should be Compton right Free hotel E. Get free airfare. Compton. That would be good. I’m teaching. I’m in the audience, so it’s still hard work. It’s hard work. Thio create facilitated session that does multi directional, But I’m in the audience. I gotta work hard too. I should be to learning more my voice just alright, theoretical. I’m learning more. All right. Um, Jessica, why don’t you help us? Uh, bring us into the topic little bit. Give it like a headline in the lead. So why we needed this session? Well, we definitely needed the session. I think that it’s time to begin the show organizations how how to turn traditional events into something that is Maur engaging something on opportunity for everyone to contribute to these different solutions. And I was needed for organizations non-profit or for-profit. But I was as to be a part of it because I attended two different multidirectional events through next week. Oracle build a thon events of four NGO sores and in that in those opportunities for me because they were multidirectional and because it wasn’t just someone just giving me information. Given my team information for us to download and and to turn around and apply, I was actually with a team of people I was learning at the same time they were learning, and my goal throughout this whole process was to basically eliminate the time or decrease the time living in time. But decrease the time that I was spending on a billing for NGO source. And when I started this process, it took me over 30 hours a month. So process building for our team. And because of the multi directional opportunities with nets with Oracle, I’ve been able to get down my building process to less than 10 hours. Now, had I been in just a one on one session with another person, it probably would have taken me a lot longer to get to where I am now. But we had we working in teams, and so we’re all learning we were all contributing to this process. So that’s how that’s how I see it working. And I think that if we begin to we non-profits begins to look at what we’re considering. Traditional events, for instance, Webinars and think of ways that how we can actually turn those upside down to have Maur engagement to have more involvement from everyone. One. Okay, Debra, um, this sounds to me like anarchy. Why not? Why not gonna be a free for all? Well, trouble, trouble. It always sounds like gold, but it isn’t. The session was designed with the belief that everybody in the room has the answers. Right. So you walk into whatever you’re designing, whatever programmer event you’re designing with this theory that at the end of it, everyone’s experience is so much more enriched because his answers aren’t coming from the quote unquote experts. They’re coming from the people who are also doing the work out in the field or living the experience. And they have just as much validity with what they have to share as others. So a good facilitator. You have more of a facility, Kevin. Kevin was getting to this. You have more of a facilitator than a presenter. There can be some presentation elements. Like a good facilitator has figured out how to make the experience a shared facilitated latto next-gen facilitate these. I have facilitated you. Have you facilitated or just attend? Have Kevin Martin still three facilitators here? Well, as well as attendees in Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I’m focused on. Yeah, one step at a time. I know. I just stands multiple. We all can learn from each other and you multi directional. All right, is co learning the Is that just a synonym for multi directional or is co learning something different? Anybody? I would say it’s elearning. It’s similar. Um, so yeah. All right, so we’re expanding the idea of who’s the present? We’re gonna learn from elearning elearning for everybody. Um, the advantages. I made them clear. We all have something to contribute. Not only the person on the lectern, but we all Okay, so should we talk about how to organize your next staff training? That’s so so that so that it can be co directional slash multi directional slash red, amber green. Kind of learning. I don’t know what traffic lights. No way. Like our next staff training. So I remember our wedding too small and midsize non-profits. That could be just two people. They’re called learning all the time, but let’s say it’s university. Some Let’s colleges, universities, hospitals call mid size. They’re doing lots of staff trainings. They have faculty meetings. They have dr meetings. They have, uh, other provider meetings. Learnings. Training’s right in service. We can We can use this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. At our session, we actually have people to read is I’m just nothing. All right. Even though I suppose the, uh but all right, I’m stuck in the old model like I’m a dinosaur. I mean, an anachronism. Um, the person at the I’m gonna put in health care setting. But the person on stage has her master’s degree in nursing degree. She has a master’s degree in nursing. She’s got an MBA, and staff is all you know. They’re the B s ends and the R ends. No masters degrees. We still should not all be learning from the person with the MBA and the Russian downstage. And we should also be we not all should be learning from the person with the MBA and the master degree in nursing. Doesn’t she have the most into a part in the room where we’re just all a bunch of B s ends and our ends? I would say that well, number one, there is still a place for the traditional, right? There’s gonna be times where somebody is the expert who’s coming in, and the goal of that session is to get their knowledge to other people. But in the example that you just gave, those are ends who were in the crowd they have experienced in the field. And so some of that experience might be helpful to add to what the expert is saying may potentially in more theory, where’s they have more on the ground experience so they can share that with each other and with the presenter. And like never says that enriches everyone’s now the thing that was a bad example. Also that ahead of the training right, there’s this belief. The expert often has the belief of what the people in the audience want to learn. And so there’s work ahead of the training, with Cole earning as well where you can ask people. Well, what would you like to be happening in the training? And what would you like to get out of the training? And I believe that’s a piece of it, too. That’s multidirectional where that their their direction is coming from their audience. Okay, okay, let’s start with Jessica because it’s been a while since you got a chance, Doc. So we’re going to set up this staff in service training? Um, let’s keep it in the health care vicinity. What we wear. Deborah’s just saying lead. There’s lead time preparation time. How do we get started setting up our next staff training this way? Um, great question. And we did talk about this in our session I raised for I feel like for great points. Okay, They were they were not ego problem. It’s good thing we stuck you in the middle. So s so to get started. My recommendation was the number one. It’s the first of all. Think of the roadblocks. What roadblocks do you think? Well, actually, let me if I can rewind just a bit, I’d say that the number one step would be to discuss what is the goal? What is the overall world coming together? What is what do we want to get out of this? Okay. And then from from that, then start to think about what are some of the roadblocks that would actually hinder us from turning this traditional event into a multi directional. What are some potential role blocks? And then I said that we need to think about the time, the time. That is gonna the time that is going to take for this to happen. What are the time restrictions for this? What time needs to be invested in the beginning? Because I know. And for me, when I participated in the opportunities with Oracle Net suite, there was so much time invested into our team beforehand. I mean, at least 10 hours, and so that’s something to think about. You know? Are you willing to invest that time and then distributing that, distributing those responsibilities? And then I say that we need to think about what are some of the disadvantages actually of flipping and event, because there could be, You know, as Kevin said, there is definitely still a place for those traditional events. So we have to think about that. And then, of course, what are some of the advantages? So I think once you map out those four things in addition to the goal, I think that’s definitely a great a great start. So in the instance where we are having a you said, that’s a staff meeting and we’re gonna have something. So then again identify what is the goal? What are we trying to learn? And then, I think, identify people within the community who have some experience in that they may not be an expert, so to speak, but they have a lot of experience, and so I think that that’s also helpful. And then there. I think that it’s also helpful to have people who may not necessarily have hands on experience, but they do have some knowledge of what we’re talking about, because then they also have, uh, some, you know, they’re able to make some type of contribution. Okay. Okay. Uh, Debra, what are what are some of the potential roadblocks that mentioned might exist? Thio Converting your training thio, multi directional, multi directional multidirectional. Debating what the training is, of course, will be different road blocks ahead of time. There’s the time that you put into it by redesigning, rethinking, getting out of your space that you’re used to thinking about. I think that’s hard. It’s also it can be challenging to get buy-in from your organization for this new kind of not only just programming event, think about like a fundraiser that you’re having. How would you incorporate it multidirectional in that If there’s a near some training element of that, it can be challenging to get some buy-in. The other roadblocks that ah, that could happen is so you have the multi directional training and it turns out the other directions are not so interested in contributing right. What happens then? I think that that’s very real. That has never actually been my experience Does That has never actually happened. But you do have sometimes less participation than you would desire. For example, time for our last break turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories, as well as build support for your work for your mission. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. There a turn hyphen to dot CEO. Finally, a sponsor message that was uneventful. Chase got butt loads more time for Cole earning for your programs. I want it. Well, I’m gonna go to Kevin and I want to talk about some of the crew’s some of the advantages of doing this aside from what we’ve already identified a few times, everybody learning from everybody else. And there’s so many different perspectives in the audience, and we bring all those perspectives in What are there other psycho social advantages that we haven’t talked about? Whatever. I mean, I would say things you just talked about are the main advantages. But I know those are off the table. Yeah, so for in terms of our attentions fan, I think I know leaving a lot of sessions and helping with managing conference conferences. Phones come out pretty early in a lecture. And so, by having these multi directional options where you stop speaking from the stage and you give everybody option the top talk and share it gets them back engaged in the energy level gets up often in the session. That seems to be the other big. Yeah, I could see different voices. I mean, I know when I speak, I have not done go learning, of course. Not sure that I ever will. But big ego ego problems, you know, But, um, irrespective. So what I’ve done so far, You know, I noticed attention perks up when I start asking questions. I started asking, and I don’t I don’t like to leave questions till the end. I take questions. So I guess I should say, When I start accepting questions, people start raising their hands. There’s different voice, you know? Said, Let’s start popping up the other. The other half of the audience wakes up, you know, I’ve got results to speak of it. That was funny. Labbate would have to sleep off the street. Nobody, nobody, nobody Just take it seriously. I probably I could see I think that is true. I could see that. At least they weren’t using their phones way. You know, I just point I do see voices or, you know, people broke up with other voices are heard throughout the room in questions. Yes. We’re gonna mention think about the traditional weapon off. Right. And you were right. And you can see your analytics. Where, like, Oh, look at all these people. They’re not Actually. Live your weapon on what you can’t say. You can see. So if you can think of turning the webinar upside down dafs multidirectional learning, I suspect the engagement will go away. Okay. Okay. Um, time limits time. Need other Latika. Talk about that. Okay, let’s let’s go to That’s our preparation. So where do we go now? It’s a day off. Are we in day of way. You know what? There was one thing some, uh mentioned pulling. You talk about pulling in advance, finding not only what you want to learn, but whether whether people will participate, can you? Let’s talk about how do you find out whether people will actually participate? So you don’t end up one U unit directional when it’s you intended go. Directional defendant Multi direct depends on what it is for the build with on events that we run, for example, we make it really clear. First of all, we assign a team captain on the net sweet side. And then we assign a point of contact on the non-profit side. And we say at the end of this event, you will have to present not the employees but the actual non-profit customers so that they present their learnings to the other customers and we sort of designed the day. So there are no surprises. It’s really clear this is what’s going to happen if you’re participating in it. And so I think you complain. I mean it that way, where everybody walks in with a showed expectation of what’s gonna happen. Okay, Okay. I was envisioning an event that’s different where it’s not all everybody presents at the end. But we’re the role learning from each other during Kevin run by an event like that can happen. Okay, How do you make sure that audience members are gonna participate in the way I just described? I think I mean, it’s well liked. Ever said it’s definitely part of its preparation. So like there’s actually a book called The Art of Gathering by Preah Parker. And she talks about the meeting or the training or whatever the gathering is. Starts as soon as you invite someone and yours should be spending time preparing them to let them know So, for example, there’s a there’s a communications training that I do. And in one of the first communications I have with any of those participants, I asked them to send a photo of themselves. And I’m very clear. I’m saying, when we do webinars when that photo shows up, that means you have to speak. And so it’s like you’re gonna get called on. And so it’s sort of prepping them to say It’s not just me talking. You have to be ready. T share your experience. And so there’s little steps like that you could do in advance to just prime them for when they get there that they’re gonna be speaking and not just listening. Okay, Okay, what do you do? Anything. Anything different in terms of preparing the audience? E. I think that it’s also good to identify everyone’s role. So if we are looking at the model that we’ve talked about teacher, teacher, the Lerner, Lerner, the teacher and learn it’s a learner. But even within that, I think that rolls should be defined for day of plain that a little bit. So when we participated in the build a thon, it was very important for us. Well, for me, toe have a note taker. There was so much information being exchanged, and it was just impossible to gather information to retain it and also apply it all at the same time. So there was one person that we designated to be one that was actually documentation. So that way, when we leave, we have steps. We have everything documented for the future and to move forward. And I also think that it’s important to identify who is actually going to be. If it’s if it’s an event set up where you can actually begin to apply and move forward with action steps at that time, that I think it’s important to have who is going to be that person? Luckily, we were able during the building down to actually go live with a lot of the different things that we were building, you know, we didn’t have to wait for testing. We were able to go live with that. But it was important to identify who was gonna be that person. Also, to identify who’s going to be in charge of accountability and follow-up. Because once we leave here, then then what happened? So it’s important to know what the next steps are. And did this actually work? Was this really beneficial? And it’s hard to really? Well, I was going to say it’s hard to tell day of for me. I I knew at that that day of the building time that this was very beneficial for my team. I just knew it. But you actually really see the results weeks and months after the fact. So the follow-up is very important. So just identifying rolls and who’s doing what, even though we’re all learning and we all have the answers. But then how else are we contributing here? All right, all right. So we go to a day off now. Okay. Let you go. Stay with you. What? What is this? What does it look like? Day off is It’s like this is the room, like, start with the room. Is it set up the same way with a traditional seminars. Yes, it set up the same way it could actually be set up in and broken off into groups that I don’t really think that there is a right or wrong way to set up something like that. I think that if it is set up in a traditional, for instance, classroom style or meeting south, I think that you can also even incorporated a workshop section where people actually kind of break off. So I think that that’s fine. I don’t think that the way that this set up is that Okay, that was a question. Well, it was interesting to me. I’m a newcomer. Yeah. In our session, they were in the traditional meeting style set up. And when we asked them to do some of the breakout work, right, the co learning, we thought we said, Turn to the person next to you. We said sorry. Away from the like, turn to the person next to you. And instead they all said, Well, can we just get up in form groups based on what we want to talk about? And they did. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, anarchy way. Well, let’s just go with it. Well, yeah. Community wants it. We’re supposed to hold it. It’s supposed to be supposed to be learner, too. What did you say? Audience to learn a teacher. I was wondering if you’d said no. You lose all your bona, fide, all your credibility Credibility. Yeah. No, it was so much fun, to be honest, I don’t know. I’m lecturing. We’re doing it my way. Um, okay. What else? What else do you want to go, Debra Day of? Tell me about what they have. Looks like we still got a few more minutes. Why don’t you want to give me a model? Work with her? You wouldn’t listen. General Health care. Mom, Your healthcare mind your model. Our nurses, nurses training day on on infection prevention, post surgery. So a couple of key pieces start with sending expectations. Make sure you have different voices the day off, and then make sure that there’s time built in for the teacher. Loner, loner, loner, loner, teacher. Right. So if you start with setting the expectations that setting up the room at the beginning, what’s gonna happen is structured time now, as Lucia was describing. But is it always where there’s structured time for the cold learning or you can’t just raise your hand and say, I have a point that I had used my downstage hand again. I have a point that, uh, that I want to make to the group. It doesn’t work like that. I think that’s informal elearning if you want to set it up for sort of formalized elearning that I do think we need some structure. Okay, Yeah. And so once you set up the day and then perhaps you’ve set the stage for what is actually gonna happen. So maybe there is a little bit of a training for 15 minutes. In the beginning, that’s like, this is the information you have to know. And then and then the important pieces. Well, how are you going to take that and add to it by the goodness of the intelligence of the people in the audience? And you have to build. You have to bake that in in some way, whether it’s an activity and there’s lots of great books on, like how to plan these kinds of activities where people learn from each other, um, or whether it’s an ideation exercise right and people spitball ideas. And then they turn to each other and talk about them. And then they iterated again, whatever it is. So that’s their learning from each other. And then at the end of the day, there has to be some way in which the learning is consolidated. So there’s the learning, Frito, that happens, happen stance in different groups. But then they have to learn from each other. Like, how did the groups each develop? And how did they exchange of information with each other? So you have to You just have to organize it. Facilitated is there Is there a resource that you gave out or that we can refer people to their white paper? Awesome, Reese. Okay, what is it? Tell us. Where can we find I? Actually, the first name that I can’t That was the multi multi directional bingo card. Okay, I know. It’s just basically a It’s a chart. And we, um we list 88 different traditional events, and then we have every every dynamic teacher to learn a learn a teacher Lerner, Lerner and so in the chart, the goal was to have the participants took him. Plead how feels different exchanges are happening for each one of these different traditional events. And so, yeah, we do wear working. Listeners find that it’s on. It’s in the collaborative, knows that it is in the collaborative notes. So you go to end 10 dot or GE go to the euro in the 19 multi-channel half, and then you know you’re well, we’re in 1980 CEO, and then your your session hash tag is multi path. Okay? And that’s where this resource is. That bingo card called a bingo card anymore. It doesn’t look like you find only because we were using that as our as our game as I workshop piece help the because depends to begin to start rebuilding their events. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. We’ve identified the resource. We’ve defined what the anarchy looks like. So I encourage you do not have the ego that I have and actually attempt this. Try this because we can all learn from each other. You couldn’t learn from each other. There wouldn’t be podcasts. That’s what much Give your altro out your outro. Deborah askanase, seated next to me is social impact Manager for capacity building programs. at Oracle Net. Sweet Machiko Phillips, his program manager for NGO source and grantmaker success at Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martin is the technology program manager for Jay Camp 1 80 which is a program of the Harold Grinspoon Foundation. Thank you so much, Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks to you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. All are 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact Thanks for being with us next week. Another good one. No firings. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com Responsive by Wagner c. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software The Knowledge E fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profit tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. 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