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Nonprofit Radio for August 16, 2019: Manage Your Programs With A CRM & Co-Learning For Your Programs

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Jake Grinsted, Leah Kopperman, Kai Williams & Medha Nanal: Manage Your Programs With A CRM
The right CRM can help you run day-to-day program operations: track client relationships and outcomes; host trainings; manage certifications; organize transportation; and more. Our panel was recorded at 19NTC and they’re Jake Grinsted from Simply 360; Leah Kopperman with Keshet; Kai Williams at The International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council; and Medha Nanal from Top Cloud Consulting.





Debra Askanase, LaCheka Phillips, & Kevin Martone: Co-Learning For Your Programs
This 19NTC panel encourages you to look at a more collaborative training culture, which pushes the bounds of who is the educator. They’re Debra Askanase at Oracle NetSuite Social Impact; LaCheka Phillips with TechSoup/NGOsource and Kevin Martone from JCamp180.





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Transcript for 453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.mp3 Processed on: 2019-08-17T15:38:37.521Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…08…453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.mp3.32272577.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/08/453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. I’m firing a listener. Steph Marie p. Left this iTunes review on March 11th 2018. Quote content is great. Okay, but universal. No. Gator cancels everything preceding it. Tony often chastises his guests or asks a question and then bulldozes them When they reply, it can get awkward and off putting. For example, a guest started off a response with good question, Tony. And he admonished the guest for saying that rude and weird. End quote. Steph, Marie P. Get off my show off. I want you to stop listening. I do not want you to be listening to my words. You don’t get me. I am in no way going to try to explain me to you because it would be over your head. You don’t have a sense of Well, maybe you do have a sense of humor. I’m not gonna go at home now. I’m not gonna go there. Maybe you have a lovely sense of humor. But you don’t share mine or you don’t even get mine. Let you don’t have to share it. You just have to understand it and you don’t. So I want you off the show. So here’s what I would implore you. I beseech you to do first. Unsubscribes Don’t stop yet. Don’t pause and stop yet. I want you to go. Whatever platform you’re listening is probably iTunes. That’s where your review was. Unsubscribes unsubscribes. Okay, now then you have to do that. Come back. Hit. Stop Not pause because we’re stopping. Stop and go away. Do not listen to this show again. Next thing I know, you’ll be chastising me because I’m lewd and weird to imaginary interns. You don’t get me and you never will. Please stop listening, Steph. Marie P. Get off my show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. Now that Steph miree P is gone. I can say that with enormous confidence I’d be hit with favoritism if you beaned me with the idea that you missed today’s show Its program day manager program with a c. R m. The Rite CR M can help you run day to day program operations, track client relationships and outcomes. Host training’s manage certifications, organized transportation and Maur. Our panel was recorded at 19 NTC and there, Jake Grinstead from simply 3 60 Leah kopperman with Cash, Chi Williams at the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council and Meta Channel from Top Cloud Consulting and Co. Learning for Your Programs. This 19 ntcdinosaur encourages you to look at a more collaborative training culture, which pushes the bounds of Who is the educator. They’re Deborah askanase at Oracle Met Sweet the Sheik, A. Phillips with Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martin from J. Camp 1 80 on Tony’s Take two Living Trusts Responsive by Wagner, C. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission turned hyphen to DOT CEO. I feel so much better. Burden off my shoulders here is manage your programs with a C. R M. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 and T. C. You know that it’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. You know that we’re coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. What you don’t know is that I am now with Jake Grinstead, Leah kopperman, Chi Williams and Meta Channel, and their seminar topic is not just for fund-raising anymore. Managing programs With C R M zsystems You also know that all of our 19 NTC interviews are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Let’s meet the panel. They are again Jake Grinstead. He’s founder of simply 3 60 Leah kopperman, director of data and C. R. M at Kesha Chi Williams is the executive director at the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council, and methanol is seated furthest from me. And she’s the principal at Top Cloud Consulting. Welcome. Happy to be here. Have all four of you. It’s a big panel, but way can accommodate Absolutely. Thank you. So I’m not sure is this is this, uh, let’s start down at the end with the metal. Is this is emerging, or is Am I just not aware that your C R M database can be used to manage programs? You’re welcome to say that I’m just not aware. Yeah. So it has been around for a while, but definitely in the nonprofit world, it is an emerging awareness that it can be used for a program metoo management. Okay. And what, Metta, Let’s stay with you. What do we need to have in place so that we can do this way? Just need us, C r m databases that it, or are there other things we need to have? No. So you have to have the right kind of serum because not all CR ends in the market right now are capable of supporting program data. So you need to have right tools and write features in the Sierra system to support this. Okay, Right kind of cr M. Okay. Uh, so we’ll come back to that because we have 1/2 an hour together. Um uh, let’s see. Hey, why don’t you sort of give us Ah, a headline and a lead? Uh, that anything more? You could say that to introduce us to this. Yeah, I think that while using serums for program management and it’s itself not new, it’s much more broadly recognized. My organization, I felt like even just four years ago, Coming on working on ours for five years ago, people were like, That’s Syrians are for fund-raising. And I’m like, No, this makes sense. This is how it’s gonna work for us. And I had this vision and I was able to find the people that work with, but it wasn’t a conversation anyone else was having. And now I go into a session and everybody’s like, Let’s talk about program management. So are you a pioneer or early adopter? Early A doctor. I think the pioneers were way before me. All right, All right. Leo, what’s the advantage of doing this? Well, I wanted to also remarked that the organization that I’m with Kesha we’ve been using C r. M to manage our program since 2012. So we were really early adopter Warren earlier. You weren’t. You sure you want a pioneer? Why can’t I personally wasn’t I was not with Kesha and 2012 with the organization. I would I would say so. Yeah, I think so. Okay. That’s not a scientific survey statement. It’s just got gut instinct. Think so? Okay. Yeah. Um, Lee also credits herself with being That makes it sound like nobody else believes it. I believe I do believe it. Teaching me how to sign a sign up for a Twitter. He had a start. My account on Twitter. Now we have Susan Chavez is my mind that the show and my company’s works from works as our social manager. But she was not the social manager in 20. We’re not sure where this 2014 or 15. We’ll have to look at what it will say. Joined. Right? Right. My name’s has joined it, I’m sure was maybe Susan can tell us. Okay, maybe she’ll look, I know it was not 16. I know. I’ve been on longer than 16. Okay. Uh, okay. And, uh, Jake, what’s the advantage to doing this? What? Why? Why? Why not just do it Separate different management for our programs? Sure. I think there are a few advantages of having a serum for non-profits programs, and one of them is allowing for more time for your program staff to really focus on what they do best. Focus on their passion, focus on why they were hired, and that’s to actually manage the programs that they have. So having a non-profit serum allows you to cut some of the administrative overhead that doing doing this type of work with multiple different systems, maybe on paper, maybe an excel, maybe in different databases. By bringing that together, you make it a lot simpler and cut down on that time. But what if the comparison is with ANAP location? That’s that’s designed for program management versus managing your program through the C. R. M? So I would argue that if it program is designed to manage your sorry if application is designed to manage the programs, it quite well might be a program crn that’s probably see around. We should probably back-up is giving you Siara here, Jake Constituent Relationship management. So it’s any application that helps manage the relationship that your organization has with your constituents and your constituents might be the people you serve in the fund-raising world. Obviously, it’s the donors and the people who help support you. But in the programme world, it’s those the people that are involved in your mission might be volunteers. It might be the people use serve. It might be others involved with whatever your mission is. All right. All right. So So since I got I gotta go, Leo. Because with grand grand, I’m sorry. I gotta go to Chi because of the grand theatrics that you gave Jake, I have to go back to you. So what are we? Wait, What are we talking about? Are we not talking about, Like, salesforce and razors edge yet for program management, right? We are we talking about Exactly. I would say that Razor’s edge doesn’t really support program blackbaud other blackbaud tools. D’oh! We’re talking about service. We are talking about a fund-raising C r m being used for a, uh, just just a c r M serum that theorems air, not natively just for fund-raising. Those xero ends there for any constituent management, although some are designed very much for fund-raising like Razor’s edge. But sales force. And that’s the reason my order, when we were doing all of our evaluations of many serums, they were out there in 2013. We ended up choosing that one because it was more of a platform that we could use for program management, Um, versus something that was just set up for fund-raising. But CR rims are for everything. I would argue that if you did not have a program cr em, you’re probably using sheets of paper or spreadsheets. That’s really the alternative. Okay. Okay. Well, that’s exactly what medicine to you have to have the right kind of cr m. Yes. Yeah, it’s time for a break, but, uh, Sam didn’t tell me. Now he did. Wagner CPS. They’ve got a free webinar on August 21st Fair labor standards act nuts, bolts and updates. Now, today is August 16th. So the odds of anyone listening live or archive, which means anybody, because that’s only two ways you can listen, if you could just say theon of anybody listening doesn’t matter. Live our archive. You’re wasting syllables here, Thea. Odds of anybody listening on August 21st are slim to xero. So watch the archive. Um uh, it’s a wagon or yeah, we call these waiting to call these things. These wagoner webinars webinars. So this wagon R is the Fair Labor Standards Act. Calculating regular rate of pay and overtime pay for employees or for yourself that counts. You count to understanding, paid versus unpaid time and a lot more. You’ll find this wagon are the archive thereof. At wagner cps dot com, you click resource is and then recorded events. Let’s do the live list or love. I feel like doing it early today. Um, starting native, starting domestic, I should say not. Maybe not native but domestic. Ah, Sacramento, California on Hollister, California and Tampa, Florida. And those were abroad will get their Hammond, Indiana, special Live listener love after Hammond, Indiana. Franconia, Virginia. Franconia, Alcohol Franconia. Know whether it is, um uh, no, that’s Peru. That’s abroad. I wish she would organize his better. Sam. Really? You could do a better job for me. What kind of support is this? It’s unbelievable. I don’t have interns or don’t even get producer support. So also all jumbled up between domestic and abroad. I gotta figure it out. Salt Lake City. All right, That’s, um I guess he would consider that domestic. Yeah. Salt Lake City, Utah Live. Listen, love. After you do New Bern, North Carolina Live love to the new burns. Ah, Hell’s Kitchen, New York. I love I love that Hell’s Kitchen shows up as a separate entity. It’s not New York, New York, it’s Hell’s Kitchen, and that’s the only neighborhood in New York where that happens. We don’t get we don’t see, um, Nomad or Dumbo or Upper East, but Hell’s kitchen specific. I love that. I admire that. How do you How do you do that helps get you probably even know what I’m ranting. I don’t even know what I’m talking about. Um Raleigh, North Carolina. Live love out to you as well. Cool. That’s a Carolina today. Um, Now let’s go abroad With which had a better organized list from Shanghai. Doesn’t do by continent during Times Hemisphere released. You could do atmosphere. That’s only four of those. For Christ sake, you could do atmosphere. It’s only four of them. Shanghai, Shanghai, China Showing how you with us often. Thank you so much for that For that loyalty. NI hao Ni Hao and Seoul SEOUL, South Korea Also so such loyal, loyal, live listener love the soul Annual haserot comes a ham Nida Mexico CITY, Mexico Witnessed our days when a star dies. Mexico City and Tehran, Iran. You’ve been checking in occasionally. Now, Tehran. Thank you for coming back. Um, our keep. Ah, Peru. That would be Ah, put yours up. Portuguese now? No, the only spanish. So I ve been a star days When a star days for arctic quip Peru Thank you for being with us. Um, that’s everybody abroad. And, uh so live lister, love. Thank you so much for being with us and the podcast pleasantries. Because we have over 13,000 people listening in the time shift and the pleasantries go out to you wherever we fit into your schedule. I’m grateful pleasantries to you, and we know that we are minus one. Where ah, 13. Like 13,500 minus one from now. Going forward. Not just this week. I’m not going to say her name anymore. Uhm And so why did I wait till you may be wondering why that we tell today this review from, uh, that person was march 11th 2018. I don’t check that often. I don’t I don’t look at the reviews like every month even, uh, but I have seen it. I have. I’ve seen it long before today. I just was ignoring it in the past. And then the last time I saw it, I don’t know. Whatever it was a month or so ago, it annoyed me. So So that’s why that’s why uh, no, I haven’t been annoyed for for these 18 months since March or something of last year. But I’ve been annoyed for the past week, a month or so, and now I’m over it. Therefore, we’re moving on to Ah, what we’re doing. We’re continuing, of course, with Jake Grinstead, Leah kopperman, Chi Williams and methanol talking about managing your programs with Sierra. One of the fundamental differences is that in fund-raising CR M in fund-raising world, right, The kind of fund-raising data that every organization maintains is fairly typical. So whereas for programs, that is a huge where I d And so your CNN system needs to be able to store and manage all those different kinds of data, that’s a prerequisite to be used as programs. Okay, Okay. Uh, so you were just backing up a little asking about, like, different kinds of Syrians. I’ve certainly worked in social service agencies where in the past they’ve had what’s called a case management system and that really is what the social service frontline staff would use to manage the clients that they work with. So that’s really very parallel Thio, the kind of idea that we’re talking about a program management system and the advantage of not having a separate program management system and a separate fund-raising system is often there’s overlap between who your constituents are, and somebody who participated in one of your programs may very well end up becoming a donor or somebody who participate. Somebody who’s a donor may become a volunteer, and if you’re managing your volunteer program and you’re managing your client base through the same system, then you have up to date information and email addresses. Postal address is interests, etcetera, and so you can use it both for the client and and for the fund-raising. All right, so I think I’m trainable here. But let’s make sure so you can have a generic C R M that will manage fund-raising and Andi program operations trainable. I would take this a step further and say, In addition to what Leo just said, your program crn might often be very helpful to your development. Your fund-raising department. There are so many times where your fund-raising team are going to need to ask the program team for certain statistics and reports and data about the programs that they run because they’re gonna need that for their grants and etcetera to do their fund-raising. And so if the data is in the same place. If everyone’s using the same tool, the same crn the development staff would be able to have access directly to the reports and the information about the programs that are being run without having to tie up program staff. Time to actually pull those that information separately. That’s another advantage of bringing those things together and what xero. OK, OK, in your program description. Have you done your program already? You have your on the downside. It’s great. Okay, um, nobody came with a glass of wine in the bar is open, even my drink. Okay, Jake, that is not water. I guess that’s vodka. Leah has a metal bottles. We don’t know what’s in that. Two women down the oak. That is already finished. I think I That’s Jim, not water. Alright, So good. I’m glad I’m not hindering the fun and excitement part of social part of 19 nineties E for any of you. Okay, so in your program, in your session description, you take off a whole bunch of things that can be run through a c. R. M. Tracking client relationships and outcomes run training’s manage certifications, organized transportation. Is it worth taking through. Is there enough to say about each of these about how the C R M should can be used to do each of those things? Or is that too much in the weeds? The way that we handled the panel was each of the four of us did like a case study, where we talkto sort of soup to nuts how we use our serum to manage one particular thing. I don’t think there’s enough time here to run through, but that that is how we handled it in case studies. My brief. I don’t know if you’ve got a little example of how shit uses when it might be helpful for sure so way. But we can. We could do brief examples. So you each have a different CR M doing something different. Yeah, because because all the organizations that we are working with or at our do different mission and Jake you’re the consultant here. No, I actually 36 from the founders simply for 60 were actually creating a C. R. M that is designed for programs. That’s why we started something for 60. I work from non-profit where we found it frustrating that we couldn’t find a good program. Cr m. And so with that organization I actually started and founded simply 3 60 to do that to fill that need. Okay, so in the session, I actually talks about one of our founding clients s O, That I use that as a case study and represented them talking about how having a program crn for them has been so helpful thing. American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey. Okay, Okay, I’m willing I’m willing to hear the case is from each of you, But you realize that we don’t have 75 minutes. So So I know on dhe. I appreciate that you aren’t all nodding, is it? But what happens when you start talking? You get into your stage hit, and all of a sudden you’re three minutes. Story becomes 12 minutes, and then we’re out of luck. So I have to cut off everybody else, and everybody will be pissed off at you. And they’ll wonder why they didn’t go to the drinks instead of coming here. Should have drinks. Why? I waste my time here because they didn’t get to tell the story. So everybody gets, uh, okay, so we’re 13 minutes. We’ll make this the longer sessions as 27 figure. We spent a minute bantering, so we’ll go to 28 which is about 15 divided by four. I’m impressed with math, but I haven’t finished it yet. 15 divided by four is less than four. It’s like three minutes and 1/2. So everybody gets about three and 1/2 minutes. I’m gonna I’m gonna try my best. All right? So everybody gets three minutes and 30 seconds on Duh. At the three minute mark, I’m gonna let you know that you only have 30 seconds left and we’re gonna hold you to this s o I since I feel bad. That meta is sitting at the end doesn’t have a devoted Mike. And I feel second bad for, um, for Kai, who also is has to share my So let’s start at the end. With Metta, you have three and 1/2 minutes to tell the story at, um top cloudgood. The top cloud consulting shared in the Okay. Get closer to the study of one of the clients I work with. The organization worked in the areas of health and wellness. They programs such as individual and group therapy for physical humans on wellness programs. So before I started working with them, they were managing their data. Alden spreadsheets. It was spread all throughout the organization with all the program teams. Every time that the team’s wanted to pull any kind of report, they were pulling that out of individual spreadsheets and manually formatting into the desert former and that was taking them days. Thio create a report. So number one it was a giant waste of organizations. Resource is on number two. Everybody knew that pulling the report was like pulling teeth, so they were not even using reports as much as they should. So after we moved there, they tied to the Syrian system. The reports were quick, instant, instantly available up to date, not for five days old on the organization started using reports as a feature much more frequently because it was available so much more easily. That’s so concisely I didn’t get to give you a warning. Uh, you’re here a little more You want to say Okay, tell our stories, and maybe, maybe maybe maybe the host will develop some questions. You black lackluster. Who’s No? No, you still get your three minutes? You still get your three? What? I say three and 1/2 actually. Three minute warning. He’s cutting it down, so I don’t know, You know, meta exceed XL, but you could be You’re welcome to be lackluster. Please. OK, eso I work with the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council. We provide training and resource is on wildlife rehabilitation. We have membership. We have classes, we have certification. We have a practicum. We use our serum to manage all that often. It’s the same people doing all of that. And then maybe they have an extra $5 they’re helping us out with the $5. Or maybe they’re volunteering for us. So we get to see all of that before we have C R. M. We had an old system and we actually lose data. Wait, hold on. I’m sorry, Amy. Sabat Ward, Stop distracting the guest on top of radio. You had your chance. You had your shot. Just distracted CEO of intent is distracting, distracting Leah and J everybody making this wave on camera. All right, I’ll spot you an extra 15 2nd All right? Yeah. So before we had our modern serum. We were losing data like we have a registration that would get lost because the system in between one server and the computer, it would just disappear. So we have people showing up for classes and we have no record of them. Really. A lot of issues with trust, all sorts of problems. So with the modern serum were able Thio one have everything in one place. I know to trust our data. We haven’t come directly from our website into our system. We’re able to track our measure, tracked measurements, assessment of how the students are doing, how they’re engaging with us. It’s It’s quite an interesting set up, Andi, I guess I want to mention one interesting thing we found as we talk about our case studies because they’re all very different. You know, I’m contracting with hosts and doing sending certificates to students and all the stuff that happens in between there. But we found this similar framework. We are all even though our products are very different. The steps we need to go to are very similar and so we’re hoping to kind of create some data models for other non-profits to dues to be ableto have program management CR ems. And how are you? How are you collecting that? Well, I’m working with a couple of different groups on that, but user user studies just people. It’s really just people like the four of us getting together and walking through these scenarios and saying, Oh, okay. This flows into this, which is this, and this is always an assessment piece. Even if you might not call it assessment. This is your registration, your enrollment, something that sort. This is your program piece. Oh, this might be an add on. If you have a case management your assessment might be Did they find a resolution? But there’s these really core similarities, and so I’m excited to see where that goes. Okay, I appreciate that. You actually did accept my admonition. Thio keep things concise. Haven’t given a three minute warning yet. Okay, now, Leo, don’t blow it, okay? I’ll do my best. Really? Okay, so So it kiss it. We air the LGBT Q Jewish organization in the US, where national and focus on our mission Shin is too have full inclusion of LGBT Q Jews in Jewish life and one of our programs that we do is where we train the leaders of Jewish organizations to have more inclusive environments for sorry for Jews who are participating. And it’s not the water over the vodka. So we that we do in sort of regional programs and we do a year long program, say, in Chicago, where the Jewish Community Center and the bunch of synagogues and the, uh, I don’t know if there’s a Jewish community foundation. Whatever the Jewish organizations are in the area, they all commit to this year long program and we offer them training and help them set goals to make their organizations more inclusive. And we provide them with coaching services over the course of the year and the way that our Sierra Miss and then at the end of the year, they you know, sort of report back to us through a survey about, uh, how they felt about being participants. And so the way that we manage that program with our serum and we happened to use sales force is that we way use existing data in the sales force. Instance toe understand what communities might be the next ones to offer a program in right Well, look, we’ll see. OK, we have enough people, maybe in Cincinnati, that maybe that’s the next community. Well, where will offer a program? And then we can do marketing using that C R M to the all the Jewish professionals working in Cincinnati and and advertise the program and reach out and say, We’re going to be running this and will you enroll? Then we have a sign up process where organizations will sign up and add the that information about their organizations baseline measures of where their organization is at in terms of Do they have gender neutral bathrooms? Do they have a new LGBT clue of LGBT affirmative group in their community? Do they have a bullying policy? You know, all these different kinds of measures. We asked them up front when they fill out the form and they tell us where they are, is a baseline. And then they, during the program, set a bunch of goals. Those all their goals go into our serum and then our coach has access to all those goals and works with them over the course of the year. Two. Help them reach those goals. All those girls also populate a dashboard that we have in the serum, that our executive leadership can look at any time and see 80% of the current leadership project. Participants are you know, they have started on 40% of their goals. They are still waiting to start on 10 and they so we can see they can see the progress without having to ask anybody. That’s just there in the dashboard. And our fund-raising team can also use that to make a case to a donor because it’s just right there in front of them. They can log in any time and do that so and then at the end they do a survey and we and we find out one of the things we want to do is change mind set, openness, three minute warning, okay. And we want to change the mindset of the participating organizations. So we asked them at the end did they see new opportunities for LGBT inclusion in their communities. And one of our measures is what percentage of organizations reported that and we have about 80% of our participants reporting that they did see new opportunities for inclusion. So it’s been very successful all right, Jake. So yes. So one of my founding clients, the American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey. They are an affiliation of summer camps in the United States, and their mission is to help in rich lives through the camp experience. So they help train camp staff. They help parents figure out which camps to send their children to and just generally promote the can’t summer camp experience in United States. Um and so I want to touch on another potential benefit of a program serum that we haven’t been touched on already. But we haven’t properly articulated yet, which is the benefit that it can give to constituents themselves. So the people who are actually benefiting from the program can really benefit from their organization having a program xero. And I’m gonna give you an example of how at the American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey, they have this amazing program. This wonderful lady there named Rene, who is in charge of helping parents find the right summer camp for their children. And she works oftentimes one on one with parents to help them find the camp. It would be good for them and so what we were able to do once we had all of the camp, all the member camps that are affiliated with this organization into a program. Crn we were able to start exposing that information on their website directly and gave parents a chance to go to the website, fill out a form as to what their children might be interested in. You know how long the camp should be, How much it should cost nb be able to actually search for summer camps right there on because they had now this one see Iran, where all of their camps were together. They could trust that the information that was e-giving that was being given out on the website would be accurate to these parents. So then parents could actually indicate that they were interested in the camp camps, then had a member’s portal through the sea Iran that they could log into on dhe. Then camps could see which parents had indicated their interest. They could also now register for training events. They could basically take advantage of all the benefits that the was giving them. So by using simply 3 60 in this case, they were actually able to give both their member camps and the parents that they served better access to their own information to the information is in the system and better serve them with the programs that they have. Can anybody else site benefits to the those they’re serving constitutent people themselves? Well, maybe not people, but the environment. The what? I like Jakes. He didn’t say it, but he has one aboutthe texting. Oh, sure. So another organization I’ve worked with has they run programs for kids, toe, get kids out into the countryside for the summertime incredible organization on. And they they have bus loads of children that get on the buses at the Port Authority. But you work for me, work for any schools, or is this all play time for this is this is a thing. So what happened is I was in college in London and I found, became a counselor to summer camp, and that was it. Camp was like the rest of my life. I was obsessed with this. So this organization runs five summer camps, and the kid’s got on buses. They went out to the countryside, but then, when the buses came home There was often this situation where parents might be late to pick up their children or they didn’t know exactly when the buses would arrive. Maybe the buses would come early. And so, by using a program, Sierra and we suddenly had this ability to send out mass text messages. Two parents, as the buses were sort of a narrow waves. Often, arroway whatever and say, Hey, just so you know, your child’s on their way home, Can’t wait to see you. Please make sure your at this place at this time and that we hadn’t even anticipated that this could be something we could do with a program. Xero. So what we actually talked about in our in our session was this idea that there are sometimes these unexpected benefits as well on dhe. This was a great one for us. Yeah, you’ve been You’ve been listening for a while. You have a question, But you have a question you like to ask. Oh, okay. You know what? I’m gonna shut you out. What’s your name? Joanne. Joint. Crabtree joined Crabtree from Washington from Washington non-profits in Vancouver, Washington State of Washington. So Joanne missed a session not just for fund-raising anymore managing programs with the arm zsystems and came here to listen to this. 30 minutes, 30 minutes. Short version. Thank you, Joanne. Thank you very much. Check out non-profit radio. We have way. Have lots of good panels. Not This isn’t the only one we do lots of good stuff. Thank you, Joanne. Okay, Um, we just have Yeah, okay. Anybody else want to shout out? Ah, a constituent benefit. Because I think that we’re here for the people or the environment or the animals. We’re, you know, we’re serving anybody else Want to shout out a constituent benefit, but has to be in, like, 30 seconds? Okay, Get much closer in one of the organizations that I worked with the program data and fund-raising data was separated on the program. Later was once we combined the two systems and brought the program later into the CIA room along with the fund-raising data, it’s suddenly help. The organization will stop, get along with each other much better, because previously, there was a lot of this manual data exchange between the two teams and the teens were frustrated, like concentrated, questing and not receiving the data that they want benefit not only to the recipients, but to the provider’s as well. All right, we got to leave it there. Thank you so much. Thanks, Tony. Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you’re welcome. They are Jake Grinstead, founder of simply 3 60 Leah kopperman, director of data. And see our Emmett Cash Guy Williams, executive director of the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council. And Mitya Nadal, principal at Top Cloud Consulting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. Thank you, Joanne. Joanne Crawford. Thank you. Are our audience member for the panel. And of course, all our panels are brought to you by our partners. That act blew in while we’re here in 1990 Sea ActBlue free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Need to take a break. See how Sam gave me the proper proper See when I get good support, the show runs. If I could just get decent support from everyone, we need to take a break. Oh, I said that host sucks. Cougar Mountain software, Cougar Mountain software quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund fairly simple to use, and the training to be helped the training to be very helpful. I need an intern so bad, so I have somebody to blame for this ship. Copy. It’s unbelievable, and the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring. End quote. That’s Laurie D. Oh, God, Lord, he’s from a church. I’m sorry. I don’t know if Laurie Listen, Um, another quote. All the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost. End. Quote. That’s Kim T. From Lawrence Township Cookie Mountain software. That’s what this is all about. They have a free 60 day trial. You’ll find that on the list in our landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now time for Tony’s Take two living trusts. You start your plan giving program with charitable bequests. That’s definitely the place to start. You’ve heard that mantra many times from my lips. If you want to go further and you don’t have to, you could just stop with requests and have a very respectable, planned giving program. But if you want to go further living trusts or revocable living trust. That’s an excellent next step. It’s easy for everybody to understand, for you and for your donors. My Living Trust video is at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s do a live listener love update since we did it early Now more people have checked in Ann Arbor, Michigan is with us. New York, New York, New York. See, I’m sorry you can’t be in Hell’s Kitchen in New York, New York If you were in Hell’s Kitchen, you would have got you. We got shouted out as Hell’s Kitchen, but you’re elsewhere. Just New York, New York. But glad you’re with us. Live, love to you. And also Osaka, Japan, Japan. Checking in. Thank you, Konnichi wa and young son, South Korea. On your haserot comes a ham Nida. Thank you for joining us Live love to all of our live listeners. And now it’s time for Cole earning for your programs. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990. See, that’s 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me Now our Deborah askanase, Latika Phillips and Kevin Martin. Seated next to me is Debra. She’s the social impact manager for capacity building programs at Oracle. That Sweet Shikha is a program manager at NGO Source and grantmaker. Success four. NGO Source and grantmaker maker Success at Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martone is technology program manager at Jay Camp 1 80 a program of the Harold Grinspoon Foundation that was the longest I’m out of breath already with dellaccio sources into Kevin is a program, but he’s not the foundation, but he’s a program Oracle Met Suites. Two words. I’m exhausted already. Introductions. OK, your program topic was Reinvigorate your programs through multi directional learning. Let’s start with down the end. Kevin Martin, Please let’s define our terms. What are we talking about? This multi directional learning? Great. So Avery jargon e-giving drug in jail on non-profit radio. It will get the three of you out of jail in our session. We definitely We started pretty early explaining what that actually meant. So Okay, so I’m not the only one I know So So, um, really, the the session in this topic is really about his, you know, Traditionally, sessions are one way there’s someone on stage, whether it’s a lecture or in a webinar or some other training’s environment, who all the knowledge is going from that person who’s the expert to the audience. The learner, right? So multi directional is. I’m not assuming that that person has all the knowledge in the room that instead you’re embracing the fact that everyone in a training program has knowledge and expertise. And so you have learning from learning toe Lerner, Lerner, the teacher and teachers. So it’s all different direction, really, So So can I expect to pay less for conferences in the future. And I’m part of the training staff. I should be Compton right Free hotel E. Get free airfare. Compton. That would be good. I’m teaching. I’m in the audience, so it’s still hard work. It’s hard work. Thio create facilitated session that does multi directional, But I’m in the audience. I gotta work hard too. I should be to learning more my voice just alright, theoretical. I’m learning more. All right. Um, Jessica, why don’t you help us? Uh, bring us into the topic little bit. Give it like a headline in the lead. So why we needed this session? Well, we definitely needed the session. I think that it’s time to begin the show organizations how how to turn traditional events into something that is Maur engaging something on opportunity for everyone to contribute to these different solutions. And I was needed for organizations non-profit or for-profit. But I was as to be a part of it because I attended two different multidirectional events through next week. Oracle build a thon events of four NGO sores and in that in those opportunities for me because they were multidirectional and because it wasn’t just someone just giving me information. Given my team information for us to download and and to turn around and apply, I was actually with a team of people I was learning at the same time they were learning, and my goal throughout this whole process was to basically eliminate the time or decrease the time living in time. But decrease the time that I was spending on a billing for NGO source. And when I started this process, it took me over 30 hours a month. So process building for our team. And because of the multi directional opportunities with nets with Oracle, I’ve been able to get down my building process to less than 10 hours. Now, had I been in just a one on one session with another person, it probably would have taken me a lot longer to get to where I am now. But we had we working in teams, and so we’re all learning we were all contributing to this process. So that’s how that’s how I see it working. And I think that if we begin to we non-profits begins to look at what we’re considering. Traditional events, for instance, Webinars and think of ways that how we can actually turn those upside down to have Maur engagement to have more involvement from everyone. One. Okay, Debra, um, this sounds to me like anarchy. Why not? Why not gonna be a free for all? Well, trouble, trouble. It always sounds like gold, but it isn’t. The session was designed with the belief that everybody in the room has the answers. Right. So you walk into whatever you’re designing, whatever programmer event you’re designing with this theory that at the end of it, everyone’s experience is so much more enriched because his answers aren’t coming from the quote unquote experts. They’re coming from the people who are also doing the work out in the field or living the experience. And they have just as much validity with what they have to share as others. So a good facilitator. You have more of a facility, Kevin. Kevin was getting to this. You have more of a facilitator than a presenter. There can be some presentation elements. Like a good facilitator has figured out how to make the experience a shared facilitated latto next-gen facilitate these. I have facilitated you. Have you facilitated or just attend? Have Kevin Martin still three facilitators here? Well, as well as attendees in Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I’m focused on. Yeah, one step at a time. I know. I just stands multiple. We all can learn from each other and you multi directional. All right, is co learning the Is that just a synonym for multi directional or is co learning something different? Anybody? I would say it’s elearning. It’s similar. Um, so yeah. All right, so we’re expanding the idea of who’s the present? We’re gonna learn from elearning elearning for everybody. Um, the advantages. I made them clear. We all have something to contribute. Not only the person on the lectern, but we all Okay, so should we talk about how to organize your next staff training? That’s so so that so that it can be co directional slash multi directional slash red, amber green. Kind of learning. I don’t know what traffic lights. No way. Like our next staff training. So I remember our wedding too small and midsize non-profits. That could be just two people. They’re called learning all the time, but let’s say it’s university. Some Let’s colleges, universities, hospitals call mid size. They’re doing lots of staff trainings. They have faculty meetings. They have dr meetings. They have, uh, other provider meetings. Learnings. Training’s right in service. We can We can use this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. At our session, we actually have people to read is I’m just nothing. All right. Even though I suppose the, uh but all right, I’m stuck in the old model like I’m a dinosaur. I mean, an anachronism. Um, the person at the I’m gonna put in health care setting. But the person on stage has her master’s degree in nursing degree. She has a master’s degree in nursing. She’s got an MBA, and staff is all you know. They’re the B s ends and the R ends. No masters degrees. We still should not all be learning from the person with the MBA and the Russian downstage. And we should also be we not all should be learning from the person with the MBA and the master degree in nursing. Doesn’t she have the most into a part in the room where we’re just all a bunch of B s ends and our ends? I would say that well, number one, there is still a place for the traditional, right? There’s gonna be times where somebody is the expert who’s coming in, and the goal of that session is to get their knowledge to other people. But in the example that you just gave, those are ends who were in the crowd they have experienced in the field. And so some of that experience might be helpful to add to what the expert is saying may potentially in more theory, where’s they have more on the ground experience so they can share that with each other and with the presenter. And like never says that enriches everyone’s now the thing that was a bad example. Also that ahead of the training right, there’s this belief. The expert often has the belief of what the people in the audience want to learn. And so there’s work ahead of the training, with Cole earning as well where you can ask people. Well, what would you like to be happening in the training? And what would you like to get out of the training? And I believe that’s a piece of it, too. That’s multidirectional where that their their direction is coming from their audience. Okay, okay, let’s start with Jessica because it’s been a while since you got a chance, Doc. So we’re going to set up this staff in service training? Um, let’s keep it in the health care vicinity. What we wear. Deborah’s just saying lead. There’s lead time preparation time. How do we get started setting up our next staff training this way? Um, great question. And we did talk about this in our session I raised for I feel like for great points. Okay, They were they were not ego problem. It’s good thing we stuck you in the middle. So s so to get started. My recommendation was the number one. It’s the first of all. Think of the roadblocks. What roadblocks do you think? Well, actually, let me if I can rewind just a bit, I’d say that the number one step would be to discuss what is the goal? What is the overall world coming together? What is what do we want to get out of this? Okay. And then from from that, then start to think about what are some of the roadblocks that would actually hinder us from turning this traditional event into a multi directional. What are some potential role blocks? And then I said that we need to think about the time, the time. That is gonna the time that is going to take for this to happen. What are the time restrictions for this? What time needs to be invested in the beginning? Because I know. And for me, when I participated in the opportunities with Oracle Net suite, there was so much time invested into our team beforehand. I mean, at least 10 hours, and so that’s something to think about. You know? Are you willing to invest that time and then distributing that, distributing those responsibilities? And then I say that we need to think about what are some of the disadvantages actually of flipping and event, because there could be, You know, as Kevin said, there is definitely still a place for those traditional events. So we have to think about that. And then, of course, what are some of the advantages? So I think once you map out those four things in addition to the goal, I think that’s definitely a great a great start. So in the instance where we are having a you said, that’s a staff meeting and we’re gonna have something. So then again identify what is the goal? What are we trying to learn? And then, I think, identify people within the community who have some experience in that they may not be an expert, so to speak, but they have a lot of experience, and so I think that that’s also helpful. And then there. I think that it’s also helpful to have people who may not necessarily have hands on experience, but they do have some knowledge of what we’re talking about, because then they also have, uh, some, you know, they’re able to make some type of contribution. Okay. Okay. Uh, Debra, what are what are some of the potential roadblocks that mentioned might exist? Thio Converting your training thio, multi directional, multi directional multidirectional. Debating what the training is, of course, will be different road blocks ahead of time. There’s the time that you put into it by redesigning, rethinking, getting out of your space that you’re used to thinking about. I think that’s hard. It’s also it can be challenging to get buy-in from your organization for this new kind of not only just programming event, think about like a fundraiser that you’re having. How would you incorporate it multidirectional in that If there’s a near some training element of that, it can be challenging to get some buy-in. The other roadblocks that ah, that could happen is so you have the multi directional training and it turns out the other directions are not so interested in contributing right. What happens then? I think that that’s very real. That has never actually been my experience Does That has never actually happened. But you do have sometimes less participation than you would desire. For example, time for our last break turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories, as well as build support for your work for your mission. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. There a turn hyphen to dot CEO. Finally, a sponsor message that was uneventful. Chase got butt loads more time for Cole earning for your programs. I want it. Well, I’m gonna go to Kevin and I want to talk about some of the crew’s some of the advantages of doing this aside from what we’ve already identified a few times, everybody learning from everybody else. And there’s so many different perspectives in the audience, and we bring all those perspectives in What are there other psycho social advantages that we haven’t talked about? Whatever. I mean, I would say things you just talked about are the main advantages. But I know those are off the table. Yeah, so for in terms of our attentions fan, I think I know leaving a lot of sessions and helping with managing conference conferences. Phones come out pretty early in a lecture. And so, by having these multi directional options where you stop speaking from the stage and you give everybody option the top talk and share it gets them back engaged in the energy level gets up often in the session. That seems to be the other big. Yeah, I could see different voices. I mean, I know when I speak, I have not done go learning, of course. Not sure that I ever will. But big ego ego problems, you know, But, um, irrespective. So what I’ve done so far, You know, I noticed attention perks up when I start asking questions. I started asking, and I don’t I don’t like to leave questions till the end. I take questions. So I guess I should say, When I start accepting questions, people start raising their hands. There’s different voice, you know? Said, Let’s start popping up the other. The other half of the audience wakes up, you know, I’ve got results to speak of it. That was funny. Labbate would have to sleep off the street. Nobody, nobody, nobody Just take it seriously. I probably I could see I think that is true. I could see that. At least they weren’t using their phones way. You know, I just point I do see voices or, you know, people broke up with other voices are heard throughout the room in questions. Yes. We’re gonna mention think about the traditional weapon off. Right. And you were right. And you can see your analytics. Where, like, Oh, look at all these people. They’re not Actually. Live your weapon on what you can’t say. You can see. So if you can think of turning the webinar upside down dafs multidirectional learning, I suspect the engagement will go away. Okay. Okay. Um, time limits time. Need other Latika. Talk about that. Okay, let’s let’s go to That’s our preparation. So where do we go now? It’s a day off. Are we in day of way. You know what? There was one thing some, uh mentioned pulling. You talk about pulling in advance, finding not only what you want to learn, but whether whether people will participate, can you? Let’s talk about how do you find out whether people will actually participate? So you don’t end up one U unit directional when it’s you intended go. Directional defendant Multi direct depends on what it is for the build with on events that we run, for example, we make it really clear. First of all, we assign a team captain on the net sweet side. And then we assign a point of contact on the non-profit side. And we say at the end of this event, you will have to present not the employees but the actual non-profit customers so that they present their learnings to the other customers and we sort of designed the day. So there are no surprises. It’s really clear this is what’s going to happen if you’re participating in it. And so I think you complain. I mean it that way, where everybody walks in with a showed expectation of what’s gonna happen. Okay, Okay. I was envisioning an event that’s different where it’s not all everybody presents at the end. But we’re the role learning from each other during Kevin run by an event like that can happen. Okay, How do you make sure that audience members are gonna participate in the way I just described? I think I mean, it’s well liked. Ever said it’s definitely part of its preparation. So like there’s actually a book called The Art of Gathering by Preah Parker. And she talks about the meeting or the training or whatever the gathering is. Starts as soon as you invite someone and yours should be spending time preparing them to let them know So, for example, there’s a there’s a communications training that I do. And in one of the first communications I have with any of those participants, I asked them to send a photo of themselves. And I’m very clear. I’m saying, when we do webinars when that photo shows up, that means you have to speak. And so it’s like you’re gonna get called on. And so it’s sort of prepping them to say It’s not just me talking. You have to be ready. T share your experience. And so there’s little steps like that you could do in advance to just prime them for when they get there that they’re gonna be speaking and not just listening. Okay, Okay, what do you do? Anything. Anything different in terms of preparing the audience? E. I think that it’s also good to identify everyone’s role. So if we are looking at the model that we’ve talked about teacher, teacher, the Lerner, Lerner, the teacher and learn it’s a learner. But even within that, I think that rolls should be defined for day of plain that a little bit. So when we participated in the build a thon, it was very important for us. Well, for me, toe have a note taker. There was so much information being exchanged, and it was just impossible to gather information to retain it and also apply it all at the same time. So there was one person that we designated to be one that was actually documentation. So that way, when we leave, we have steps. We have everything documented for the future and to move forward. And I also think that it’s important to identify who is actually going to be. If it’s if it’s an event set up where you can actually begin to apply and move forward with action steps at that time, that I think it’s important to have who is going to be that person? Luckily, we were able during the building down to actually go live with a lot of the different things that we were building, you know, we didn’t have to wait for testing. We were able to go live with that. But it was important to identify who was gonna be that person. Also, to identify who’s going to be in charge of accountability and follow-up. Because once we leave here, then then what happened? So it’s important to know what the next steps are. And did this actually work? Was this really beneficial? And it’s hard to really? Well, I was going to say it’s hard to tell day of for me. I I knew at that that day of the building time that this was very beneficial for my team. I just knew it. But you actually really see the results weeks and months after the fact. So the follow-up is very important. So just identifying rolls and who’s doing what, even though we’re all learning and we all have the answers. But then how else are we contributing here? All right, all right. So we go to a day off now. Okay. Let you go. Stay with you. What? What is this? What does it look like? Day off is It’s like this is the room, like, start with the room. Is it set up the same way with a traditional seminars. Yes, it set up the same way it could actually be set up in and broken off into groups that I don’t really think that there is a right or wrong way to set up something like that. I think that if it is set up in a traditional, for instance, classroom style or meeting south, I think that you can also even incorporated a workshop section where people actually kind of break off. So I think that that’s fine. I don’t think that the way that this set up is that Okay, that was a question. Well, it was interesting to me. I’m a newcomer. Yeah. In our session, they were in the traditional meeting style set up. And when we asked them to do some of the breakout work, right, the co learning, we thought we said, Turn to the person next to you. We said sorry. Away from the like, turn to the person next to you. And instead they all said, Well, can we just get up in form groups based on what we want to talk about? And they did. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, anarchy way. Well, let’s just go with it. Well, yeah. Community wants it. We’re supposed to hold it. It’s supposed to be supposed to be learner, too. What did you say? Audience to learn a teacher. I was wondering if you’d said no. You lose all your bona, fide, all your credibility Credibility. Yeah. No, it was so much fun, to be honest, I don’t know. I’m lecturing. We’re doing it my way. Um, okay. What else? What else do you want to go, Debra Day of? Tell me about what they have. Looks like we still got a few more minutes. Why don’t you want to give me a model? Work with her? You wouldn’t listen. General Health care. Mom, Your healthcare mind your model. Our nurses, nurses training day on on infection prevention, post surgery. So a couple of key pieces start with sending expectations. Make sure you have different voices the day off, and then make sure that there’s time built in for the teacher. Loner, loner, loner, loner, teacher. Right. So if you start with setting the expectations that setting up the room at the beginning, what’s gonna happen is structured time now, as Lucia was describing. But is it always where there’s structured time for the cold learning or you can’t just raise your hand and say, I have a point that I had used my downstage hand again. I have a point that, uh, that I want to make to the group. It doesn’t work like that. I think that’s informal elearning if you want to set it up for sort of formalized elearning that I do think we need some structure. Okay, Yeah. And so once you set up the day and then perhaps you’ve set the stage for what is actually gonna happen. So maybe there is a little bit of a training for 15 minutes. In the beginning, that’s like, this is the information you have to know. And then and then the important pieces. Well, how are you going to take that and add to it by the goodness of the intelligence of the people in the audience? And you have to build. You have to bake that in in some way, whether it’s an activity and there’s lots of great books on, like how to plan these kinds of activities where people learn from each other, um, or whether it’s an ideation exercise right and people spitball ideas. And then they turn to each other and talk about them. And then they iterated again, whatever it is. So that’s their learning from each other. And then at the end of the day, there has to be some way in which the learning is consolidated. So there’s the learning, Frito, that happens, happen stance in different groups. But then they have to learn from each other. Like, how did the groups each develop? And how did they exchange of information with each other? So you have to You just have to organize it. Facilitated is there Is there a resource that you gave out or that we can refer people to their white paper? Awesome, Reese. Okay, what is it? Tell us. Where can we find I? Actually, the first name that I can’t That was the multi multi directional bingo card. Okay, I know. It’s just basically a It’s a chart. And we, um we list 88 different traditional events, and then we have every every dynamic teacher to learn a learn a teacher Lerner, Lerner and so in the chart, the goal was to have the participants took him. Plead how feels different exchanges are happening for each one of these different traditional events. And so, yeah, we do wear working. Listeners find that it’s on. It’s in the collaborative, knows that it is in the collaborative notes. So you go to end 10 dot or GE go to the euro in the 19 multi-channel half, and then you know you’re well, we’re in 1980 CEO, and then your your session hash tag is multi path. Okay? And that’s where this resource is. That bingo card called a bingo card anymore. It doesn’t look like you find only because we were using that as our as our game as I workshop piece help the because depends to begin to start rebuilding their events. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. We’ve identified the resource. We’ve defined what the anarchy looks like. So I encourage you do not have the ego that I have and actually attempt this. Try this because we can all learn from each other. You couldn’t learn from each other. There wouldn’t be podcasts. That’s what much Give your altro out your outro. Deborah askanase, seated next to me is social impact Manager for capacity building programs. at Oracle Net. Sweet Machiko Phillips, his program manager for NGO source and grantmaker success at Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martin is the technology program manager for Jay Camp 1 80 which is a program of the Harold Grinspoon Foundation. Thank you so much, Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks to you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. All are 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact Thanks for being with us next week. Another good one. No firings. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com Responsive by Wagner c. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software The Knowledge E fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profit tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Beyond potential. Live Life, Your Way on Talk radio dahna N Y C. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com are you a conscious co creator? 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Nonprofit Radio for June 21, 2019: Your Ultimate Communications Toolkit & Automated Fundraising

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Vanessa Schnaidt & Gabriel Sanchez: Your Ultimate Communications Toolkit
Our 19NTC panel of communicators explains how to develop your communications plan and the core principles you need to abide by. They’ve got templates, checklists and worksheets galore! They’re Vanessa Schnaidt from Cause Communications and Gabriel Sanchez with First 5 LA.





Brian Lauterbach: Automated Fundraising
Brian Lauterbach is from Network for Good. He reveals how automation can enhance your donor communications, engagement and stewardship. This was also recorded at 19NTC.





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Transcript for 444_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190621.mp3 Processed on: 2019-06-22T13:14:52.551Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…06…444_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190621.mp3.827900479.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/06/444_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190621.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, actually. A retired listener of the week, Patty Donahue. When she was executive director of the Tailor Conservatory Foundation in Taylor, Michigan, she enjoyed my show and insider alerts. That’s what she said. What’s not to enjoy? Of course, we take her at her word. That gig ended ended just last week with her retirement. Congratulations, Patty. I’m very happy for you on the celebratory retirement time on. And now she says, Keep doing the good work that you do, Patty. I will. And a grateful community thanks you for your work. Congratulations on your retirement. Congratulations on being our retired. Listen er of the week. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I go through in itis If you swelled me up with the idea that you missed today’s show your ultimate communications tool kit. Our 19 ntcdinosaur of communicators explains how to develop your communications plan and the core principles you need to abide by. They’ve got templates, checklists and worksheets galore. They’re Vanessa Schneiter from Cause Communications and Gabriel Sanchez with 1st 5 Ella, then automated fund-raising. Brian Louderback is from Network for Good. He reveals how automation can enhance your donor communications, engagement and stewardship. This was also recorded at 19 NTC on Tony Steak, too. Summertime is planning time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service, fund-raising Data Driven and Technology Enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy Text NPR to 444999 Here is your ultimate communications tool kit. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 si. You know what that is? It’s a 2019 non-profit technology conference. You know where we are. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center. Thanks for being with our coverage of 19 NTC. This interview, Like all of ours, are eyes brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guests at this moment are Vanessa Schneiter and Gabriel Sanchez. Vanessa is vice president at Caused Communications, and Gabriel is director of communications at 1st 5 Ella. But Gabriel welcome. Thank you, Tony into the show, Tony. Thank you. Thanks for taking time. Absolutely. Um so where your topic is ultimate communications tool kit, tried and true. Resource is everyone can use ultimate communications tool kit. That’s that’s, uh, pretty impressive. It’s not just the penultimate. It’s the ultimate, the altum ultimate. All right, we’re going to see I’m not in, but this is radio. Yes, Yes, you can do about your africa. I appreciate your information. Okay, uh, make you keep these promises. All right. Um what, what? To start with you, Gabriel. What belongs in a communications tool kit? Well, every every organization needs to tell their story. They want to tell their story in order to drive action and move things forward. And what we’ve learned and what I saw was my exposure to the kid was about three years ago is that there’s not a lot of learning in one place. And that’s what makes this tool kit So great is that it’s pretty much everything you need to know in one place that you can start from, and in order to both tell your story to engage your audiences, to talk to board members, to talk to donors, to engage members of the public, the people you want to serve. It’s just a great tool kit in order for you. Teo, help Dr Understanding of what you’re trying to do and to get people onboarding your mission. Okay, Vanessa. So what’s in? What’s in the tool kit? One of the components of our ultimate took it. Yes. So the communications tool kit offers best practices and really practical advice for every communicator in your organization. So everything from how do you make the case within your organization for the value of investing in communications, too. How do you put together a communications strategy to make sure that you have the right goals and tactics to drive that progress forward? And then we also get into a lot of different tactical element. So more specific surround best practices in media relations or how communications Khun support fund-raising effort. So it really is meant to be a soup to nuts, very breath oriented toolkit to help communicators at any stage of their communications journey. Okay, on who’s developed this tool kit is that the two of you and the third person on your panel who was not here, Courtney Clarke So the where is the where where is this from? Absolutely so. The the communications tool kit is authored by and created by Caused communications, which is thie first non-profit to focus on communications effectiveness in the social sector. The tool kit was originally published in 2002 last updated in 2005 and over the last few years has been undergoing this massive expansion and update project that Gabriel, as one of our partners, has been contributing Tio Courtney as well on DSO. Although it is authored by cause communications, it’s really important to us to make sure that in order for it to be as relevant as possible for today’s communicators, we receive input and feedback from the very communicators it is meant to help. So that’s where our colleagues like Gabriel come in in really helping us identify what kinds of resources and information e-giving be most valuable to them. All right and tool kit is something that’s available to the community without subscription or that’s right way. Find it. The communications took. It is available on the Cause Communications website, which is at caused communications dot org’s slash toolkit. In addition to the toolkit itself. You can also find five interactive digital lessons that we put together with the support of Courtney and her team at Form one. There are really cool way Teo get a taste for the rest of the content in the tool kit. So those those lessons are on topics ranging from branding to media relations to competitive analysis to fund-raising and measurement and evaluation. Okay, okay, yeah, everyone wanted to and Tony’s. One of the great things about the toolkit is that it’s intended for a broader audience, not just those involved in communications, but those who might be leaders of organizations. Or maybe they’re involved in development or other sectors because it helps those folks understand the importance of communications and the role it plays in order to help them do their jobs better in many ways. And we’ve seen this in smaller non-profits and smaller organizations, there is not a dedicated communication staffers. Sure, it’s distributed right, or sometimes you have many people who are directors of development and communications. Those are two big jobs, right? And so having an understanding of communications is very helpful, and and that was one of the original intentions of the guide was to help him just inform and make that case for communications with within organizations so that they make that nothing. Because communications is actually a time saver for a lot of leaders for executive director Seo’s of organizations, because it will reduce the amount of time they need to communicate because they’re essentially putting an all in one place, as opposed to having Siri’s of meetings and check ins and putting out fires. And I know Vanessa was very careful to say at the outset this for all communicators. So you’re going that it’s irrespective of your position. If you’re facing the public. Well, maybe not even his could be internal communications as well, right? That’s right. And I just had a breakthrough moment That’s right and trainable. I’m tryingto wonder. Okay, it’s not about me. It’s not what you think. Communications these days is not just a roll. It is a a practice, and we want to make sure that the toolkit is there to support anyone in a non-profit, or social sector role. Regardless of what their title says On there there business card. Everyone is a communicator these days and has an opportunity to contribute Teo Thie, expanding the reach and the impact of their organization. All right, it’s time for a break. Pursuant, they’ve got a podcast. It’s go beyond hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin, who has been a guest on this show and the friend of the show. Recent episodes are self care for leaders and four digital trends for 2019. That’s just a little sample you’ll find Go beyond at pursuant dot com. Slash resource is now back to your ultimate communications tool kit from 19 NTC since caused communications. Does this for the community so generously give a shout out? What does cause communications do so? Caused communications works to support non-profits and foundations, strengthened their impact and a cheat their mission through stronger communications and marketing. So we do that by making available tools and resources and trainings for the sector. And then we also offer consulting services as well. All right, how about 1st 5 L. A. What about Gabriel? Well, they’re all about kids. Did you know 90% of the child’s brain is developing aged five? That’s a critical time. They did not know that it’s a critical time, you know. I know we’re making a lot of connections here at NTC, but the inner child’s bringing your making 1,000,000 connections a second. So it is a critical time for childhood development. And so voters, in their wisdom 20 years ago dedicated a tobacco tax to help fund programs. And we’ve now shifted to advocate for early childhood development programs like developmental screenings, preschool access and other ways to help help kids grow ready to succeed in kindergarten and in life. And so what we’re dedicated to doing is helping improve systems, make him work better for parents and their kids so that these kids grow up to do great things. You have communications principles that I derive from your world is not the principal’s themselves, but principles for day to day and long term. Gabriel, you start to take off the first of what I hope is gonna be many communications principles that you’re going to share with listeners. Well, I know it. In my part of the presentation I made yesterday, I was talking about how it’s important to think of all communication strategies and turned them inward for internal communications. I know you mentioned earlier about my breakthrough moment. Don’t gloss over it. No, course not. There’s a great breakthrough because your staff is one of your most important communicators right there, the ones where, in the age of social media, where everyone has a public persona and their posting on social media, everyone has the potential to be a spokesperson for your organization with you. Like it or not, that’s not to simply that’s not to scare people. But it’s also to remind him of the opportunity you might have in that you can reach new audiences is if you’re pursuing internal communications, which helps you with your organization. Alignment with helps you with your brand ambassador type type of programs, as well as employing engagement. So if you’re using internal communications, where those goals you’re going to help build your brand in ways that you might not, you can’t do officially through your official channel. So so oil that principal down to ah sentence. What’s the principle here? Think of your staff first, okay. And then, of course, you know not to negate everything. You just said that, like sometimes I like Boyd points. My I’m not sure my 1st 5 years were formative for my brain. I’m sure they were. You’re sure they were Tony? Not sure there was robust. They ought to have been. OK, but you gotta You gotta communications principle for us. Sure. Just Azaz Gabriel mentioned to put your staff first. We also believe in putting your strategy first. So more than we do a lot of polling and surveys at our organization on DH. We’ve learned over the years that while more than 95% of non-profits say that they value communications and its role in helping them achieve their their mission, less than half of non-profits have a dedicated communications plan. I’m not surprised by that. All right? And so the process of putting together a communications plan that aligns with your organization’s strategic plan is a great way to make sure that all of your efforts are working in unison with with each other and that you can really prioritize your time mean we all know that non-profits have way too much on their to do list and far too little time to get that done. And so a planning process can be a really helpful tool and making sure that you’re focusing on the most important things first okay. Have a communications plan. When I say okay, now, I presume the tool kit will help you develop your communications plan. That’s right. It goes over all of the basic elements of a communications plan. It even includes some tips for how to make the case for why you’re senior leadership should support the development of that plan. All right, Wei have more principles doing Gabriel have Ah, well, the principle you can share. I was talking about earlier my presentation how you can apply a crisis communications approach right to internal communications. When you’re going through a time of organizational change. Now I’ll give you four quick steps for crisis communications, and I’ll talk about how you can apply them internally. And that’s you want to be able to one. Somebody sounds their phones. I don’t Gabriel just took ownership. Go. Alright. Alright. So crisis averted. Okay, so yes, crisis cubine. How you gonna respond to this crisis? First on the show. I’ll use this perfectly as an example. Number one you ignore. Assume it was a crisis. Yeah, Yeah, but never one. You would acknowledge the situation. Hate. My phone went off, Took responsibility. Didn’t just late that it lay there. You got somebody else? Everybody stare out. Exactly. Step two is you take responsibility and you say you’re sorry, Tony, I’m sorry. And three, you explain what you’re gonna do next. I’m going to turn off my phone so it doesn’t happen. It ever happened again. Never happen again. And then for when? Hopefully you invite me back, I could remind you. Hey, I turned off my phone so that we wouldn’t have the same problem that we did last time. So what about the appoint? A blue ribbon panel? Isn’t that know me? Or is that you could put that in there? That old school? No. No, you can’t do that. It’s important to fact find. But it boils down to two. And step three, you want to explain what you’re going to do, right? And so, in times of organizational changes, the same thing, right, because you you work. You talked with plenty of non-profits. They’re always changing their adapting to new conditions. And sometimes it’s hard because it’s your staff that have are going through that, and you need to be able to explain its home. And sometimes some things don’t go The way you you wanted to. You need to take ownership of that and explain what you’re going to do to fix it. Okay, so it’s taking that same approach, you lying crisis communication and interns to your internal stand in times of change. Exactly. And in many ways, the best crisis communications is actually pre crisis planning where you’re averting crisis. That’s what you want to go to. So if you think of it that way and you’re applying those principles, that’s an external strategy. But internally, it’s a great way to keep people in line to keep people engaged and motivated. OK, Vanessa, you it’s your turn. You got communications principle for us. I do, and I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Tony. So we hear a lot about the importance of nailing that elevator pitch right? Well, I’m here to tell you that there is no single elevator pitch that is going to be the magic bullet for your organization. In fact, you need to tailor your message, depending on who you are speaking with this so there’s no one size fits all solution. There’s no one size fits all message, so it’s really important that organizations as they’re developing messages, think about what is it that really motivates each particular audience group that you’re trying Teo engage with and then create a bridge between the messages that you’re putting out there and the mission of your organization with what what your audiences really care most about. So in a sense, it’s using your it’s. Using your audience is motivation to connect that back to your organization’s mission. Alright, so, Taylor, your messages. Here are your messages again. My fundamental brain capacity. Tell your messages. Yeah. Now I have had guests who have gone through the exercise of having their board learn a new elevator pitch. You’re it. Sounds like you’re welcome. Tto disagree with other guests and but on the show over in Have we had this show in half years? Certainly everybody is not monolithically thinking so. The uniform elevator pitch not so not so helpful, you think? Well, I think there’s definitely a time and a place for developing that that pigeon, and it is important to equip your board members, for example, with some really simple talking points that they can use. But what’s going to be most effective is if that boardmember then has the comfort level of taking that message and really making it their own riffing on it, depending upon who they’re talking about. You talking? So yeah. No, I don’t I don’t know that this guest was recommending, you know, rote memorization of the identical, The identical pitch for all you know, whatever. 12 boardmember tze Maybe it was just talking points, okay? And then you should be as a boardmember. You should be comfortable enough tow Taylor that message And I said riff on it. Based on who you’re talking to, whether it’s a funder or somebody at a cocktail party, fundez becomes more. Just to be sure, the audience that you’re talking to, we got more principles if you want to keep going. This ping pong thing with are we have re exhausted communications principles. Well, I was going to talk a bit more again about internal communications and how critical it is. And I think another principle is linking the two where you should think about your external strategies and open essay was talking earlier about having a communications plan and strategy, and you should have internal communications in that same breath. You shouldn’t think of it is afterward, or a bolt on our Oh, yes, we’ve got to tell the staff, too. It should be within the same breath as you’re talking about it. You have your audience. Is your internal staff should be on that list as well. Doesn’t have to necessarily be number one, but it should be included so that they’re not thought of as an afterthought. But instead, you’re looking to engage them because one of the principles I was talking about is that your need to love your staff because those are the ones who are helping you to get the people you want, which is donors or media coverage or what have you. And they’re there for you. And you have to respect that. And you also need to look at it to where? Another way. A practical way to look at this is if you can’t sell an idea to your staff the people that are most bought into your mission that says I agree with what you do, I’m going to show up here every day. Do you work for that? Yeah. Then maybe your idea is not good. Okay. All right. So again, internal communication with urine. Think about it. It’s half in your eyes. You’re planning your own communication. Exactly. Think about stuff, okay? And building on the whole idea of tailoring your message to your audiences. It’s also really important. Don’t assume you know what your audiences want, but how do you find out what they want? Well, you asked. Um, it’s a really simple principle, but one that is often overlooked by non-profit professionals today and asking your audiences or understanding what motivates them is isa really easy way tio? Understand what what motivates them, how you can more effectively introduce your organization to them. And it’s something that we did as we were updating the the communications tool kit. So that’s where we brought in communications directors like Gabriel or implementers like communications interns or program managers or development directors. Folks who maybe don’t have communications in their title but have almost in a default kind of way, become the primary communicators for there. They’re non-profit, and so we brought them all together. We had several different workshops where we sat back and we really listen, Tio, what is it that you need in your day to day life? on. We were able to replace some of our anecdotes that, quite frankly, were so old. They become folklore in our organization with a really wonderful insights that let us know what today’s communicator needs in this digital era, where with the democratization of of communications and social media, everyone has a megaphone on their cell phone. What are some of the audiences that we might be talking to? Sure. So audiences would include board members who are not only an audience but also a messenger for your organization. You might consider talking to your donor’s. Think about speaking with your volunteers, folks who intern with you and also individuals who benefit from this from the services that your organization provides. Could even go broader. Mean journalists could be part of your communications plan. That’s right, whether that’s sort of, you know, outdated press releases or that maybe people still do them because you have to. But building relationships with journalist that’s right, could be a potential funders. People in the community government, depending on their work, the work you do okay, all of the above, all the above, and then they used data they want. They want information in different formats. A journalist, you know, might want bullets that they could carve a story around or craft a quick interview for. And then you have to know that they’re on a deadline versus funders would want more, more, more data. Rich Moore. Outcome driven. And not so much a headline and a lead. Exactly. Okay, I think you hit on something there. Tony is again twice in 20 minutes. It’s amazing. I think that the best point is stop. We’re wrapping it up is have a story. You have to have a story. You can’t just say we’re doing this. It’s great. You need to be able to explain it, and I’ll give you a quick tip. And this is something that you is gonna help you connect. You want to be able to Both are three things. You want to personalize human eyes and dramatizes story. You need to be able to make it two. In order for your story to be effective, you have to be able to personalize it. Say it affects people, might hurt them or health. Um, you need to humanize it. And so that way, in a sense of they can empathize with what’s going on and then you need to dramatize it. Need to say like there is some urgency there. We’ve got to fix this or else people are still going to be getting hurt because you could certainly talk about a number or statistics or fact and saying 1,000,000 people you know are affected by hunger every day or what? Whatever kind of fact, you figure. But it’s just a number that’s tends to be abstract. Yeah, no, we know you want to get storytelling, and I like your personalized human eyes and dramatized train. All right, let’s, uh we’re going to move away from the communicate buy-in principles. Now, you, uh, you talked about some best practices for moving a printed piece online. You say pdf doesn’t cut it. Or maybe maybe a. Pdf isn’t bad, but it’s not sufficient. May be necessary because it’s so common. A format. So what’s, uh what’s the trouble? Vanessa? What way? Not getting right about moving? Our resource is online. Well, so pdf so are still a valuable way tio share and communicate information. But as as you’ve pointed out, it’s no longer sufficient as thie on Li Wei as more of us are accessing resource is from our phones. Thie action of downloading a pdf is really cumbersome and not very convenient for today’s communicators. And so, as we’ve been updating and expanding Thie, the communications tool kit we were thinking about OK, how do we make sure that the content is not only relevant but as accessible as possible so that folks who actually use it on DH in that process we’ve partnered with Form one and came up with some really fun solutions for How can we break free from just relying on this This pdf and taking some of the content and best practices and concepts from our toolkit and putting them into a format of these interactive digital lessons. So giving people a chance tto learn by doing, giving them a chance to go through some fun exercises from the convenience of their their phone on DSO. In partnership with Form one, we’ve got these five great lessons on our website. It caused predications dot org’s slash lessons and those cover co-branding fund-raising measurement and evaluation, competitive analysis and and give you a chance to try it out right there. I think one of the other great things, too, is it? It’s much more share a booth challenge you have with Pdf. If you find a great lesson, you say, Oh, you want to share it with somebody? That’s a Tony. I want to send you a tip. I would say chicken download the pdf look Att Page 15 in the bottom right corner for the tip I’m talking about. That’s really hard to do. But if instead, if you have it where it’s much more digestible in a digital format much more cerebral and it’s going to help you, you’re gonna get to what you need quicker. What are some of these formats alternatives that we’re talking about? What you visualising data obviously. Pdf No one duvette Well, we’ll talk about one dimension ifit’s green. But pdf not very rich in visual ization. What are what are some alternatives? Sure, so there are no great infographics that you can put together, but something as simple as a pole Khun B. Really engaging, so putting together little bullet points and in fact so putting content together in smaller, digestible formats that is going to be a lot easier not to not only consume, but as Gabriel mentioned share So a wide of a wide range there of a different ways that you can consume that information. Okay. And a lot of organizations, they have a lot of great content already in these Pts, which is not t knock that. But it’s an opportunity to look at what you’ve done in the past and think about how you can reformat it where it’s much more digestible and terrible. So that way it doesn’t feel daunting. Thatyou have to redo everything. The contents there just think of ways you can make it more digestible by asking what your audience is looking for, what has been the most interesting or what’s the most thing you get. Most asked about his organization. Have that up front. Okay, Yeah, I gather the pdf is not going away, but it’s no longer sufficient because this is the 2nd 2nd panel where we’re talking about. In fact, the title of the other one yesterday was No one is reading your pdf like something like a great panel. I went there. Yeah, you stole their content later. No way were aligned when you recorded it and made it so much easier. Well, yeah, so I I Maybe, I guess. Yes. Pdf sorr no longer the and all. That’s right. And it was so much more we could do visually. Exactly. And it was really through that process of listening to our target audiences for this tool kit that we came to that conclusion on. So it was It was insightful contributors like Gabriel who who let us know that it was It was okay for us to experiment and to get a bit more creative. So in this way, we let our audience is be a barometer for our risk taking. Okay. We still have almost three minutes left together. Let’s spend a little more time. Two minutes. What else? What else did you sharing your 75 minutes with you already? And we haven’t talked about yet, but I was gonna share one of one of them. One each. It was you. You tend to grab the mic. Go ahead. Go ahead. I’m conscious of it. Thank you. We’ll get her share. I wanted to share some information. We ask tips from our audience. What is the best piece of communication advice? David, What you hear? And one of them I That was fantastic it is. Tell the truth. I mean, you want to put it in context with stories, but tell the truth. Great piece of advice. Good, especially in our current in political and government environment. And tell the truth, I shouldn’t need to be said. But it’s important to say Well, we also heard Keep it simple, don’t overthink things and test test test along along the entire process on DSO that really that really showed us that there was incredible wisdom in that room. And really, the most important tool in our tool kit is each other on DH. There’s an entire network here on DSO. We’re thrilled to be here at 19 and NTC to be able to tap into that that wisdom on DH, share it with our colleagues back at home, all right, and the way they are sharing this wisdom is by having you go to cause communications dot org’s slash tool kit for the ultimate communications tool kit, and you can also go to cause communications dot org’s slash lessons for the pdf alternatives. That’s right. Alright, they are Vanessa tonight, vice president that cause communications, and Gabriel Sanchez, director of communications at 1st 5 l A Thanks so much. Thanks, Tony. Thank you. Don’t hear opportunity. Thank your local. Thank you for being with our coverage of 1990. See all our 19 ntcdinosaur views brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. We need to take a break. Weinger SEPA is They’re accountants. You know what they do. For goodness sake, do you need help? You help your 9 90 Need a fresh set of eyes on your books? Ah, some other kind of financial related accounting related audit. Possibly help you know where to go. You start at wagner cps dot com. Do you do diligence there and then check out, then talk to your coach to Don’t just check him out. I mean, you could see him on the website. It’s one dimension talkto pick up the phone. He’s been a guest. He’s not going to pressure you. He’ll tell you honestly whether Wagner CPS can help you or not. Get started at wagner cpas dot com Time for Tony’s take two. Summertime is planned. E-giving planning time. This is an ideal opportunity. You’ve got a little relaxed schedule. Your boss does. Maybe the board needs to be involved, too. And they do also. Probably no board meeting’s over the summer. So the you can work on your proposal your plan and, ah, pitch it upstairs where it has to go and get some attention paid to it so that you can have, ah, fall rollout or maybe a January rollout. So I think this is a good a good time to be doing that. Um, As you know, I recommend starting with charitable bequests those gifts by will for your organization that might be the place to stop. That might be. Your entire plan is just promoting charitable bequests. You could go further, but you don’t have to have a very respectable program with just request. But any case, bequests are the place to start. That’s where you want to begin your plan. There’s a little more from the beach on Ah, Cancun, Mexico, in the video at 20 martignetti dot com, And that is Tony. Stay, too. Now here is automated fund-raising. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990 si That’s the non-profit Technology Conference in Portland, Oregon, were in the convention center This interview like all our 19 ntcdinosaur views is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guest at this point is Brian Louderback. He’s vice president of programs and capacity building at network Fur. Good. Brian. Welcome. Thank you, Tony. Absolutely great. To be here is always Thank you. Thank you. And your topic is three ways automation will make Sorry. Will modernize three ways. Automation will modernize your fund-raising. This is like the click candy of seminars. Three ways. Seven steps. You’re familiar with our work rhymes for things you didn’t know. All right, all right. Exactly. Um, I am familiar. Listeners are familiar, but go ahead for the new listeners who may not recall what is the work of network for good? Sure. So what we’ve done is really taking a legacy of, I would say online giving enablement when we started 15 years ago and helping provide non-profits with a space to conduct philanthropy online and teach him how to do it. That mission has really evolved over the last day decade, and now what we’re doing is taking all those dates and data and with renewed determination have a set of products that really helped new to fund-raising executive directors Or certainly first time development managers create an infrastructure that’s going to enable Mohr annual giving and certainly from individual gifts on DH to infuse a little bit more revenue and retaining donors into their non-profit bloodstream and remind listeners you were last on with Lisa Bonano. Yes, you were. You were remote. You were supposed to think you were supposed to come to the studio. Yeah, Couldn’t make it. Southwest Airlines was not cooperating with our schedule going from the airport or something. I did? Yeah, they’ve grounded the plane and everything you know? Not really. They would have a via say Sure on DH. That was when we talked about the work of network for good. Listeners can find that at tony martignetti dot com, But for today we’re talking about automation. Yeah, So what’s the trouble? Why are non-profits slow to adopt? What? Wait, Give us the headline here. It’s a little bit of everything. Our experience has been in helping about 200,000 non-profits for the last decade. Obviously, we have access to a lot of data and what we’re seeing is a CZ we from the outsiders outside perspective. Rather, there’s been a tectonic shift in how consumers interact with the world and consume content. It’s now Khun B personalized Curie. Eight curated and the frequency of it can be controlled all by the customer, the consumer. And so what we find is in trying to push non-profits in that direction. Two things happen. One. There’s sort of this legacy belief that because we’re a tax exempt were somehow non-cash were technology exempt. You know, in the sense that well, we’re non-profit, people should know that we don’t have to do all those things because we’re put bing over money and programs, and rightfully so. But in this day and age, what we see is you need to invest, Yeah, you Not only do you need to invest, but you need to embrace and exploit the functionality because we see a need to be to really create a relationship with a donor at every level at least, and using digital technology to do it at scale. Because I think as we see the a massive influx of millennial donors and certainly lagging Gen X donors, they interact with the world in ways that a number nine envelope just won’t facilitate. You know what I mean? And so what? What the need is is not only to raise awareness about the need of technology, but let’s help that small or beleaguered or emerging nonprofit organization do it the right way by not only embracing tech but embracing what automation can bring from a proper tech stack. You know, you didn’t say the phrase, but I’m thinking as you’re listening to your scarcity mindset, Yeah, we just we’re non-profit We can’t invest in in writing in digital automation. You know, our manual processes have worked for so long, so well, right, we have volunteers will come. Exactly. But so and I actually, you know, acknowledge. Ah, that perspective. However, how do we know as a non-profit that we’re doing well? Is it because we have a 30% donor-centric retention rate and set a 25? And so I think what what our sector needs to do quite frankly, is to look in the mirror and demand Ah, hyre level of output and strategy and really, you know, donor-centric City to use a cliche. But you know, donor-centric fund-raising That’s nothing new we talked about it for decades, right? But But the idea is centralising. Yeah, the donor’s preferences over what is easy for the fundraiser to execute. That needs to be the discussion and how to get that done. Because in a world where we can subscribe to anything that we want through a Web platform through online, look at Netflix. I mean, Netflix does not renew its customers by sending them a letter 30 days before their subscription is going to expire, right? And so the idea that we, as non-profits Khun, do that in a household that is heavily digitized and automates all of its payments. Teo, certainly, you know, their mortgage utilities, and then everything they do is generally online. I mean, even my grandparent’s don’t send me a $5 bill in a card anymore. You know, I get noticed from Amazon that Grandma Lauterbach just, you know, give me $50 have to go online to retrieve it. So non-profits cannot continue to hold up their tax exempt status and the fact that we’re a charity to absolve themselves from the tectonic shift that has happened now and how consumers interact with the world. Let’s start with storytelling. Yes. I don’t have too many too many panels this this year on storytelling. Okay, I have in past years just I mean, it’s so general. What? You know what? What can we do digitally to automate storytelling, making more effective all the things that story would be compelling? Heart wrenching? Yeah, moving, Make it about. Make it about the people you serve as opposed to the money that you need. You know, non-profits have perfected ways and hyre consultants to figure out even more creative ways to frame their financial need. Well, as far as I know, there’s one point 3,000,000 and counting non-profits out there that all have a financial need. And so it’s not necessarily to distinguish yourself from all the other non-profits, but if you do it right, you do it automatically and distinguish yourself. And that is talk about the unique impact of your mission. Start quantifying outcomes instead of outputs. You know, it’s not enough to say that we feed the homeless. How many people do you feed on a weekly or monthly blazes? And how does that mark mitigate the problem in that community in that neighborhood? Let’s talk about impact. You know, that’s that’s the impact, not the outcome, right? Right. Outcome is a number of meals because I think what non-profits need to do is understand that I believe and see that donors aren’t giving to non-profits. They’re giving through them. And what I mean by that is in effect, donors are outsourcing their desire for public good and impact in their communities to non-profits who have demonstrated they have the capacity to execute and achieve programmatic outcomes. So if we’re not talking about that, two donors were wasting, you know, we’re we’re wasting column inches, so to speak, on paper and email on websites. Talk about why you exist and what happens when you are fully financed. The goal of a non-profit isn’t a balance a budget. The goal of a non-profit is to achieve a mission based outcome for its community. Where’s the automation? Come in. How do how do we use automation? Yeah, tow have these successful stories, right? So what it comes from is fusing together the available channels to us and, you know, let’s just keep it simple for the moment. So we have email, we have direct mail. We have social media and text. And so the idea is we need to leverage automation to fuse those channels together to create an actual donorsearch spear. Ian ce. Because the goal is, you know, I would say we’re moving beyond a era of Doner management to a new era of donor and engagement. And so a lot of the terrain donorsearch from Doner Management. A donor engagement. Okay, Yeah, yeah, of course. Right. And so into the idea that one communication and annual report or invitation to a cultivation event is somehow you know, that combination of things ends up constitutent donorsearch stewardship. I think that’s really that’s limited thinking. What do you want to see instead, right? What? What didn’t start what I want to see. It’s what donors want to see. What donors want to see is the systematic communication of the impact that their gift or all gifts added up achieve for a new organization. So don’t tell me when it’s time to give again. Tell me when you are going to make more impact, and so in that message needs to get appropriated in texts, in social media and email, and then integrated with direct mail. I’m the last person that says, Oh, direct mail’s dead it’s not. It will always be a fixture in what it is and how it is. We communicate with donors, but I think you know what changes is, how many times in how many touches that particular channel could be effective to that particular segment. And so the rial need here is to think about how everyone consumes information, and it’s all done on phone or not all but we see a vast majority of it on phone. And the big headline here is age is no longer that determining factor for what channel’s someone will use to interact with your organization. Rather, it’s going to be a combination of multi touch that’s going to really drive a campaign message because, like, think about in the context of counter urine giving on. We talk about campaigns and data, but the reality is it’s only non-profits. Their campaign is comprised of a ah direct mail piece that goes out on some Magic day between the day after Thanksgiving and probably before the 23rd of December, and they expect these miraculous results and so on, and some of them get them because they have loyal, committed donor. Does that look past the channel? The message and see that logo and align with didn’t want to fly their flag. But the other side of it is that a campaign is the, you know, systematic communication of information to drive a group for people to get a result. And that can’t happen in one channel. You have to remind people, you know, it’s the same phenomenon where you send a direct mail peel out, don’t get a response. But then you sent an email out a month later and you see this Number nine come back into your office and that is proof positive that a multi-channel touch is what’s going to compel Mohr gift giving participation, but most importantly, Maur engagement of donors so sticking with his story telling talk about being multi-channel and digital. How do you feel about what’s your advice around? Because I pretty common practice empowering our are beneficiaries to tell their stories themselves. Yeah, you know, empowering them with the phone or some simple instructions. Sure, I think that’s well and good, but I think we would agree is a sector that is extremely difficult to get donors to jump through that hoop and make that, you know, make that make that commitment to take an action. I mean, I would argue, probably. There are many board of members of boards of directors that are slow to do that. And we all know about their accepted if you do cherry responsibility. So I think, yes, capturing the perspective of the donors is great, but they’re not the one delivering the program. They’re not working with the person that is the beneficiary of let’s capture the beneficiaries. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Beneficiaries right is powering them. Yeah, I think to the extent that it’s possible, Absolutely. But, you know, in the construct of like human service organizations, it’s probably I think we all would generally agree that the people that we’re helping house feed and give medical care aren’t in a position or, you know, if we want to Mads low. This discussion aren’t really thinking about. Gosh, how do I help this non-profits? Really? How do we get it? But it’s time for our last break Text to give. They’re five part email. Many course dispels the myths around mobile giving. You do not have to be small double digit gifts. They can be in the hundreds. They don’t have to go through the donors phone company. Those were a couple of the myths that are dispelled. You get all the display shin of the mystification if you get there. Five part email many course. And to get that it’s one part per day. You text NPR to 444999 We’ve got butt loads. More time for automated fund-raising you Khun, you can solicit there. You can solicit totally. You know, selectively. Of course. You know we want to be careful about exploitation. All right, But But I think the first whillans Argo and another way I’ve had some guests recommended empowering the people who are delivering the services, like sort of putting the focus on them as the heroes of the organization and letting them tell the stories that they of the work that they’re doing. Oh, absolutely, in the conveyance of the benefits, right. But to do that, you need to have a technology or a system or a process to harvest all that great information and that storytelling byproduct for lack of a better term and bring it in and approach effectively appropriated and distributed to, among all channels to the people that care about the most. You could do that from direct mail to YouTube channel tio. Sure texting with Linc. Yeah, and this is not Teo marginalize any of those ideas because they’re not only are valid, they’re good and they’re best practices. However, most non-profits that’s not step one step one for a non-profit is to understand their O to have shared visibility within the organization. And it can be at the volunteer level two but a shared visibility around what the organization achieves and make sure everyone is communicating that externally. So it starts at a staff and volunteer level. And I would argue Stage two is enlisting the beneficiaries, let alone the donors, and delivering that message. Because until non-profit stop talking about their fund-raising go goal as the Rays on Detroit to fundraise, then I think there’s more work to be done at the organizational level. So I would say it’s about the It’s about a sequence in about what stage appropriate based upon the human and financial resource, is that I had that an organization has part of what you were talking about, and you mention this, but with cult action, the engagement, a cz, the cult action as engagement had. What’s your What’s your advice around technology and supporting that? Ah, so you’re automation automation? Yeah, So it is automation. You know, people kind of use the phrase, set it and forget it. That’s not inaccurate. But it kind of creates this belief that once we automate acknowledgement and engagement, then we don’t have to worry about those donors or that group or whatever the opposite is true. What automation allows you to do is focus on the things as a fundraiser that you always wanted to focus on, but never of time. And that is what is the impact or what the result from this email did this subject line work that is called action work? Did this text message get engaged with, and so it allows the fundraiser instead of worrying about, you know, getting the email out or getting the letter out, it allows the fundrasing think about what is what is the actual result is this channel for this campaign achieving what I need to? And then if it’s not how doe I re calibrate or optimized, how do we answer that question whether that channel is provided giving us our ally, right? Well, so the first step, you know, the natural inclination of a fundraiser obviously see like is it bringing in money? And that is the I would argue that is the penultimate metric, the ultimate metric. First, to figure out if you’re if you’re content and if your message is resonating, is people are people engaging with it? Are they opening? Are they clicking and so wants you? Once you’re able to measure the, you know, a hopefully a steady increase in the level of engagement, then I think that’s when you can start to go to the next, not the next level. But then the second consideration is it raising money, right? So because there are many great messages you can put out there that engage a donor that don’t necessarily have to quote unquote culminate with a gift or philanthropy eso I would argue that the number one metric that every fundraiser needs to be thinking about today and moving forward is engagement, as opposed to just participation, just the amount raised and the date that it came in. And when is it up for renewal because, you know, engagement. There’s, ah, hyre relationship between an engaged owner and a second gift alone increase gift. Then there is, you know, just how many solicitations do they respond, Tio, Um, you part of what you say in your session description is increasing efficiency. Yeah, with the fund-raising platforms, right? What? What can we do? So the way the thing about efficiency is like, I was, you know, I’m a dumpster fundraiser of 12 years right before he returned to a big bad consultant and then network for good and all that funds. And I would I remember 80% of my day wass in a delivery. Logistics. How do I get this email out? How does this postcard go out This invitation Go out. And and so the idea is, let’s be planned ful about what all those touches are going to be throughout the year. Let’s use technology to automate as many of them as possible so that we can stay focused on the thing that actually matter. What What are some of the tools that you don’t think enough non-profits air using or are aware of or or tools within platforms? Yeah. What what? What’s under exposed? I think what’s under exposed is like, for example, in the donor management systems out there. Are you able to produce text and email, let alone integrated with direct mail communication? I’m not talking creating a list or a segment. I’m talking about actual fund-raising cockpit, right? Whereby you Khun Sure, pull your list, your lead select and all that fun stuff. But then create and schedule campaign to deploy a text, deploying email also and then to produce a direct mail piece that works within that er that fits within that message framework on DH, then also the portability of that content over to social channels Instagram, Facebook, you know? So I would say that the thing that non-profits need to be looking for again it’s going back to my statement about we’re moving. You know, donorsearch will always be something we need to do and the highest priority. But we need to move beyond technology a zey donor-centric construct and think about in terms of donor gauge mint. We have to manage our donors and segment our donors so we know who to ask for what reason what time and what they want to hear, And how do we begin a relationship with them? So, yeah, it’s looking at at the platforms out there that allow you to doom or than enter and report and analyze data. That’s a critical thing that we always need to dio. But then it’s like, Okay, how do we How do we take the insights from that analysis and apply them to production and engagement? And so that’s that’s That’s where we’re going. I think that’s where we need to go. Is a sector? Is Mohr software companies looking at the what neat. What constitutes engagement and creating a optimal donor experience. And the donor experience just isn’t a timely acknowledgement letter or a nice looking website. Instead, it’s end end throughout the year. How are we going to make sure this person knows we’re doing the job they subcontract us to do with their $10 gift, let alone their $10,000 gift? Okay, Uh, you got some big ideas. You get something? We got some time. We got another full three minutes or so. What? What else you gonna share? You haven’t done your session yet? No, no. What else? You’re gonna sew one of things that were going to share tell people were so Network for Good is releasing a white paper that we did on will be released at the at our session on Friday, and then we’re going to share it with the rest of this sector. But basically what we did is three year study that followed 2000 non-profit organizations and knowns that use multiple channels of digital technology to communicate. And those that did not the headline here and this probably doesn’t surprise you. The headline is that those that used to arm or channels to communicate and solicit and thank donors and year and giving had a higher average gift by about 40%. And those that did. I’m surprised we need data to make this point. I know I’m not talking about being donor-centric and multi-channel well, multi-channel not as long as donor-centric right, but it’s been a long time exact multi-channel. You’ve got to go where the people are. Well, that’s the thing is like, I think what what the sector has lacked is and an example that we could be held up and pointed to a success. While it’s a commercial example, I love it and we deconstructed in the white paper what Netflix does to achieve a 91% customer retain tension rate. They simply used data, segmentation, text and email and then, of course, have great content online, right? And the combination of those things and everything that gets touched in the in delivering those things create this composite profile of their users, so they know exactly what to say and what exactly what? Content to position. Now, that’s an extreme example. But I use it because Netflix doesn’t have this oughta magical technology that does it all forum. They’re doing the spadework that every non-profit has the ability to do at any stage, right? You don’t have to have a full time digital fundraiser or a data analyst to be able to do this stuff. It’s about basic block and tackle and being planned ful as opposed to react. All right, so this is a case study of Netflix, and yet case the lessons for non-profits. It’s not out yet, not out yet, be released on Friday and then the whole sector the following week, where we’re going to get it so you can get it at network for good dot com on you confined it on Facebook A ce Well, yeah, and we’ll be launching on. We’ll have a couple of webinars around it to really present the findings. But most importantly, is to present some how to things that non-profit due to, you know, starting quote unquote tomorrow. One of things that we’re offering is a no digital navigation kit. Basically, how to make a case to aboard that they need to invest in fund-raising how to make a case, your boss, that you can work more efficiently with technology. Basically, it helps the fundraiser make a case internally that guys, we have to adapt. And here’s why. Because sometimes fund-raising our struggle to make that case to a board or two a boss. And so do you want to make that easy For part of the cases? You’re already experiencing it right through Netflix. Amazon, right, Zappos, your experience in this this seamlessness and this great experience they’ve all raised the bar we now need toe be dragged along raised, raised up to mix my metaphor drag along. But everybody’s experience Our donors are experiencing this everywhere else online way. You need to be there too. And we’re creating this cognitive dissonance. Everytime we don’t, we’re gonna leave it there. All right, he’s Brian Louderback. Hey, thanks so much, Tony. And he’s the vice president of programs and capacity building and networked for good. You’re very welcome, Brian. My pleasure. This interview, like all the others for 19 NTC brought to you by our partners attacked Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Yolanda Johnson. She’s women in developments. New president If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to 444 999 A creative producer was Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the lying producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York. Thank you, Scotty. You’re with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network. Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live Life Your Way on Talk radio dot and Y C aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti, non-profit Radio Fridays 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com duitz. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? 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Nonprofit Radio for June 7, 2019: Disrupt Unconscious Bias & Your Normal Is My Trigger

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Joe Shaffner, Minal Bopaiah & Sara Boison: Disrupt Unconscious Bias
Our panel encourages you to dive deep into your own biases and how they influence you and your brand. Then deconstruct and disrupt those you no longer want. They’re Joe Shaffner at International Center for Research on Women; Minal Bopaiah with Brevity & Wit; and Sarah Boison from Communities In Schools. (Recorded at 19NTC)





Barbara Grant & Eve Gourley: Your Normal Is My Trigger
Accept without blame that your normal is not everyone’s. This panel helps you recognize differences and manage across generations. They’re Barbara Grant with Crux Consulting Consortium and Eve Gourley from Food Lifeline. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





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View Full Transcript
Transcript for 442_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190607.mp3 Processed on: 2019-06-07T19:22:27.262Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…06…442_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190607.mp3.778427195.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/06/442_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190607.txt xero Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of trick Otello, Sis, if you split hairs with me over whether you missed today’s show disrupt unconscious bias. Our panel encourages you to dive deep into your own biases and how they influence you and your brand, Then deconstruct and disrupt those you no longer want. They’re Joe Shoffner at International Centre for Research on Women Minal, BOPE IA with brevity and wit, and Sarah Boysen from communities in schools that was recorded at 1990 si. Then you’re normal is my trigger except without blame that you’re normal is not everyone’s. This panel helps you recognize differences and manage across generations. They’re Barbara Grant with Crux Consulting Consortium and Eva Corley from Food Lifeline that’s also recorded at 19 and TC Tony stay too pissed in Brussels, Responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuant by witness Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers regulars wetness cps dot com My goodness and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to 444999 I got that one already is enough. Here are Joe Shoffner, Middle back-up Aya and Sarah Boysand from 1990. Si. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990 Si. That’s the non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Oregon, Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. This interview, like all our 1990 si interviews, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising. Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are Joe Shoffner, Mental BOPE Aya and Sarah Boysen. Joe is senior communications specialist at the International Centre for Research on Women. Excuse me. Mental is principal consultant at brevity and wit, and Sarah is director of digital strategy for communities in schools. Welcome everyone. Thank you for your pleasure. Have you, uh, we’re talking about your seminar topic, which is disrupting unconscious bias as we grow our brand. Uh, let’s start down at the end. Sarah. What? Before we unpacked What? Unconscious biases? What What’s what’s the trouble? What are non-profits not getting right about growing their brand that you wish they would? Well, I would say a lot of non-profits are really struggling Teo identify where some of the problems are coming from. In terms of things like hiring a promotion in terms of the communications, I think a lot of organizations are starting to see that diversity isn’t something that just could be thrown around is a buzzword. But it’s something that they actually have to embody within the organizations, and from there it usually flows through the word. Okay, mental. You want to add to the headline on the leave? Um, yeah. I mean, I agree with everything. I think I’m sorry agree with everything, Sarah said. And I think in this day and age, brands do need to be very conscious of diversity and equity and inclusion if they want to have a brand that’s still relevant. I think thie millennial general generation is probably the most inclusive generation of it’s time. America is more diverse than it’s ever been. And if you want to appeal to all segments of the United States, if you want to be a global NGO, and in the end, the in the era of social media where a misstep can go viral, it’s really important that brands protect themselves by having an awareness of how unconscious bias could have affected their brand. Okay, Joe, you want to lead us in a swell, I think the one point, I would add is, is that unconscious bias within a browned is both individual and group. So in order to work as a team to tackle unconscious biases that come out in your brand, you have to alert look internally as an individual and as a team. Okay, let’s define unconscious bias. What do we mean? Sure, So they’re going to throw it to me since I have the degree in clinical psychology. And so I’m technically supposed to be able to do this. So it’s It’s easier with slides and with visuals, to be fair, if you are a picture of the brain. But I’m gonna I’m gonna do this via just speaking and see how this goes. Basically, within the human brain there, two systems of thought. There’s automatic thinking, and there’s deliberate thinking. Dahna condiment talks about this and his work thinking fast and slow. I prefer the words automatic and deliberate, because you can have delivered thinking that is fast as well. And unconscious bias happens because thie automatic thinking pathways, which air dictated by the limbic system, which contains the amygdala and the hippocampus. And those are areas that are really responsible for creating emotion and creating memories tend to fire together. And what that allows you to do is to make quick split second decision. So, for example, if you’re in a dark room and you you walk in and it looks like there’s a snake on the floor, you would recoil. Now, if you turn on the lights, you may find that that snake is actually a rope. And so you’ve based your data, your based your reaction on what your brain has perceived and made a split second decision that’s protected yourself. We’re talking about such decisions about people. Yeah, so if people in groups, yeah, so if you are not exposed to people of a certain race. But all of your data has been for movies that portray that raised negatively you may have if you meet somebody of that race, your initial reaction, maybe based on poor data at the same time, that automatic system can protect you. So I used to be a rape crisis counselor in a previous life, and a lot of women have said that they had the sense they had a flag that said maybe this guy was dangerous, but they didn’t want to be biased against them. And that’s not the time to just go against your bias is what we really talked about in our session was that if you want to mitigate biases, you have to start employing that more deliberate system of your brain. And bring your unconscious biases, too, your awareness, and really start to look at whether you’re basing those decisions on accurate data or not. If you’re a woman who’s in a position where you physically feel threatened, you need to get yourself out of that space first. But then reflect back as to whether your fear was based on something realistic or whether it was based on a past memory that was maybe inaccurate for that situation. Or worse, just something culturally that understood. Yeah, and grossly. It could be grossly and actually wrong, and but it it could be really accurate. And it it’s up to every individual to really do the work to explore where their biases air coming from and be able to respond from from their deliberate thinking from their from their executive functioning part of the rain. Rather then just that primal urge of their brain. Okay. And then Sarah on I may even be asking youto repeat what already said, But I’m trying to I’m processing this. And you all have been thinking about this for months. Relate this back now to brand, please. Yeah. So in terms of the brand, I mean one thing I can say that, at least in my organization, that community schools, what we’re doing is we’ve implemented diversity equity and inclusion work. So what we were doing is we’ve identified a taste of the basic level that there’s some work that we need to do organizationally, right? So we recognize that as we work with one point 6,000,000 students across the country, that each of us individually may, you know, we all hold biases, and it’s up to us to do that work to ensure that we’re able to better serve our students and better understand their circumstances. So what is happening at my organization is that our board of directors is actually mandated that we implement d I work across all of our affiliates across 26 states and D. C. So there’s work that’s being done from the top down and also from the bottom up. So what we’re doing as well is that we’re we’re going to our affiliates and we’ve actually way have affiliate representatives that are on a d. I planning team. And what they’re doing is they’re actually creating a tool kit, and they’re creating actual work flow for the entire organisation for us to follow in order for us to better serve the students in our community. So this sounds like I mean, even though I asked you about Bram, this sounds like mission. I mean, it goes right to it, really is more of your work and your what your mission is. Absolutely. I feel that if you can’t address a lot of the things that go on in terms of diversity equity inclusion, I almost feel like you really can’t as an organization served. You know, many of the populations that way Do you want to help? So d I needs to be identified as a core value of the organization? Absolutely. It’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of First Impressions had a combined strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. It’s all about donorsearch acquisition. It’s on the listener landing page. You want to make that terrific first impression so that your donors stay with you. They’re attracted to you and they stay retention as well as attraction. You’ll find it at Tony dahna. I’m a slash pursuing with a capital P for please. Now back to disrupt unconscious bias. I mean for a non-profit. Hold on. I want to find out what his communities in schools do. What’s the work? S o Right now we serve one point 6,000,000 students across the country. Essentially, how it’s structured is we play psycho. Nader’s within schools. So we work with school district and schools and state offices. We have sight coordinators in schools that helped afield. Resource is between the schools in the community to help the students and their families. Okay, pulling together resource is from local communities. You’re in 26 states. Yes, we’re 26 states in D. C. Okay. Community resource is for the benefit of students. Yes, So it is. It’s academic and community resource is so good example would be like if a student comes in and their and their families facing homelessness instead of the student putting that responsibility on the family and the student, the site coronated will help so one identify what some of their needs are and work with those in the school as well as some of the folks in the community to ensure that the students able to get the resources that they need so they could focus on school. We’re gonna know I was just going to put a finer point on Sarah’s comments and say that you know, for non-profits how you execute your mission is your brand. And so that’s why I like if there’s bias and how you’re executing your mission, that is a reflection of your brand reputation than in the space and goes back to, you know, how do you want to be known in your community in the country? Okay. Okay. Um, so from your session description, your dive deeper into our own biases on how they influence us on the point being made that we’re not only talking about organizationally, but also individually, Um, how did they influence us? I mean, it could be positive. My my thinking is that it’s I mean, I think, is that it’s mostly negative. But it could be positive, I don’t know. Or is it all negative? How did the job your turn? How does how does how did these biases influence us? What’s don’t go by me? What’s the consensus of the pattern? Sure. So I think one thing mental untouched on was the snake versus rope on DH. You know, applying that to Ah non-profit setting where it shows up is actually because there’s so many things going on at one time that you have to make decisions quickly so you don’t have a lot of time. It feels like to process and to think about these decisions that you’re making so to an extent, what we wanted to focus on them. The session was how to bring that out and discuss it in an honest way with those in your organization and also focus on who is in the room who is at the table discussing this because you do get caught in these cycles sometimes of having the same people making these decisions, whether it’s events, whether it’s what photos you’re choosing. Teo, display the Bowler hat brand. What project you’re taking on and a great way to mitigate that is bringing other people in from different backgrounds, different perspectives, different views and how you work together to come up with solutions of that. Create that change. Okay, the how and the who Let’s talk about some of the house. How do you bring it up? So one of the things that we’re working on at I c e w is the International Centre for Research on Women is an event checklist. So we’re aware that with all these quick decisions we’re making, sometimes you bypass the thought process and how to, uh, figure out how who’s on the panel for the events on DH? The checklist brings into mind, um, you know, who are you bringing in for the planning stage? I think that was the most important point that we came out with is who’d you bring in the room? And then you look at, um what photos? For the invitations you look at, you have considerations of who’s on the panel. So, for example, if you have a panel on talking about youth and there’s no one represented who is in the category of youth, right, so, uh, kind of bringing all those perspectives to the table. Okay, Sarah, anything you can add about who should be in this conversation? Yeah, I’d liketo piggyback on what Joe was talking about. So for me, like working in the use sector, what I’ve seen is a lot of times you have people who are making decisions that, uh, that that impact other people. And one of the things that I really want to challenge, not only just ourselves, but other non-profits do is to really allow the people that we’re serving to be the experts on their lives like, yes, we have the resources and the tools to maybe empower them, um, to shift course of change. But I really do feel that we’re doing ourselves a disservice by not bringing the people that we serve into the conversation to be a part of the solution. And that’s one of the things that including when their school age Absolutely that’s do-it-yourself. Absolutely. And I for us, I mean, there’s definitely a perception that young people aren’t ready for leadership right now, but many of them are already leaders in serving in their communities, and many of them are very well versed in what’s going on and some of the problems at their peers phase. So we’ve actually found it to be incredibly powerful toe bring in students early on in the process. When we’re doing the programs, when we’re doing projects and asking them, Hey, what is going on? And what do you feel would actually be a viable solution? And we actually just did a student in it. Evasion Challenge in Las Vegas and we had four students. Three of them were from Charlotte, and 11 was from Michigan. And they actually presented ideas that they worked with on a student team to help mitigate some of the issues that are happening at their school on. It was a great opportunity, one for adults to kind of just sit back and listen to these students. But it was also another opportunity where we were actually e-giving Students of resource is to be able to actually create change in their own neighborhood mental about how to raise your advice, how to raise this in in your organization. Yeah, it’s an interesting question because I think it’s sort of organically being raised in a lot of non-profits right now because, like I said, the younger generation of employees who are coming in are very aware of this and really wanted When you have an intergenerational office, Yeah, and and I think, really, when we’re talking about building diversity, equity inclusion when we’re talking about building inclusive cultures, what we’re talking about, his power dynamics. And so you really need to be able to study power to be successful in any diversity and inclusion initiative. And that means working with leadership. If leadership is not bought in that diversity and inclusion needs to be a core value of the organization, it is unfair to put the burden of change on people who have lesser power. And and that’s really critically important for organizations. Understand, once leadership is bought in, then it needs to be like any other operations or business unit where there is actual commitment in time and money and metrics for progress. How do you get this buy-in What? So much of the power is white and male. Yeah. Andi, let’s assume the leadership is because a lot of it is not all but a lot is Yeah. How do you How do you go to the CEO? The white male CEO and try to get this D I core value buy-in from? Yeah, the guy whose power he perceives is being threatened. Yeah, so not assumes. Powers xero some, but But ah, lot of guys do. Yeah. So how do you overcome that? Yeah, so that’s a big question. So I’m gonna take it in multiple ways. Got two and 1/2 minutes now we have more than yeah. No, that’s a really good question. And I think it gets to their multiple approaches. First of all, like somebody died. So I would not recommend somebody like me because I’m much better at strategy than I am as an executive coach or facilitator. I think it takes, um, Riel s o. I worked with a lot of diversity inclusion. Consultants are facilitators, and they’re exceptional at their ability to have a conversation at that level That doesn’t trigger people’s defensive isn’t Isn’t this almost essential? Tohave an outsider facility trained facilitator. Sarah, you’re shaking. Did you did you use a a facilitator? Yeah. So currently way Do bring in outside facility. Other conversations I’ve had with other guests. They’ve said that it’s almost essential because it’s doing conversation. Could break down. Yeah, rapidly. And you need you need sort of an outside there. But, I mean, I think of a diversity inclusion consultant almost like a family therapist, like their job is to give you that outside perspective and help you to see things in a new way on DH, then within, like, sort of having those conversations. There’s multiple things that you could speak to. Some people like to go the fear and avoided through, which is what I mentioned before about brand reputation. You know, if you want your organization to continue to be successful in the 21st century, you need to get on top of this. Bring a Brown. Once gave a talk at Were Human last year, where she said, If you are a leader who is not talking about diversity and inclusion, you will not be a leader in five years from now. And if you are going to talk about it, you were going to mess up and you were going to fall flat on your face and you were going to make mistakes. And you need to learn how to be an evolved enough leader to make public mistakes. And like rumbled through it and get through to the other side. So it takes a lot of it takes a very mature leader to be able to do this. The second part is to make what people like to call the business case, which is There’s research that shows that shone and this is from the for-profit sector. But companies that have diverse product teams have three times as many patents as companies that don’t. So the leveraging diversity will inevitably help your programs, your operations, your bottom line. And that’s really important to know, especially as we live in a more globalized world. I mean, I remember growing up is an Indian American. I didn’t think most of the television and most of the magazines were relevant to me. I didn’t buy any of that stuff. Nobody got my dollars because nobody was marketing to me on the third way is really too, you know, I think that there are enough white men like Joe, and you probably like you, Tony, who are you who are men of conscience? You know who who understand that you shouldn’t. There is a business case to be made, but you should just write this was the right thing to do for God’s. You shouldn’t always have to make the business case to do the right thing. And more importantly, like how, like, Why don’t you want to create a place where you wouldn’t recruit the best talent? You know, like Sara shared an experience today in our session. I’ve had a similar experience of being in organizations where we wanted to give our best. But the lack of an inclusive culture made us leave. And so you’re losing exceptional talent because of unconscious bias or because of your lack of commitment to including creating an inclusive culture. And so if you want to create the best products and services, if you want to have the best programs, if you want to have the greatest impact, this is is absolutely critical to all of those goals. And so diversity Inclusion isn’t something you do because it’s nice. It’s something you do because it’s mission critical and a strategic goal for every organization. I feel like the conversation has been raised to another level just within the past few years, and that may be the result of black lives matter now metoo. More recently, metoo No, because for so many years it was just It’s the right thing to do. But now, on DH, that was unavailing, obviously, to the white power structure, white male power structure, because things weren’t changing. So doing the right thing wasn’t sufficient a za motivation necessary but not sufficient. But now you know we’re so buy-in next level, we’re making the casing in different ways. That you can argue should have been, should not have been necessary. But Aziz said change wasn’t happening. So, you know, making the business case, for instance, Yeah, If you have to bring it, bring it to the bottom line and say you risked relevance, you risked losing talent. Well, I think it’s a communications professional, and other communications professionals here can speak to this. It’s important to speak to the values of your audience, and I think it’s it’s hubris on the part of people who actually care about these things to believe that the other person must think like you in order to be able to enact diversity inclusion initiative. I really think that Dee and I needs to take the same approach that truth campaign took to smoking. They created a multitude of ads, and they basically was like, We’re going to target everybody. We’re going to target everybody based on whatever they care about. And so when you would see the ad, maybe one out of 20 adds spoke to you, but then they got 20 different archetypes that they could speak to. So they weren’t saying, Oh, you have to care about this one thing in order for you to buy into this way of living. And I think diversity and inclusion needs to take that approach that different people are going to be motivated by day, different things. And we need to be able to speak to all of those motivations instead of sort of rank ordering and saying This motivation is better and more noble than this other motivation. I think that’s really judgmental, and it doesn’t move anything forward. Okay, Joe, we haven’t heard from you in a while. What you want to contribute? So, uh, we focused a lot of the session today on, uh, workplace, but I would extend that to say, particularly for white males. Um, this is a conversation that I think needs to be had in the home. A school on the street because of some of the issues that we’re facing. It worked. We bring in tow work. It’s not just something that comes up at work. So it’s something where to have a coffee with someone and and just try to shift perspective a little bit. And there’s in the us in particular is a lot of this attitude of pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Um, which, yes, that’s worked for some. But there are others who don’t start out at the same level where there is race, gender, economic way, same level. But you don’t have the same opportunities, right? Don’t have. You don’t have the power. Yeah, So it I think by avoiding, um, even reflecting on that, that’s where the biases come in. And that’s also where we continue doing the same thing, Um, at work, at home. So it’s like, how do we create that shift? And part of that? Is this through honest, open communication? Ok, uh, we still have, uh, another two minutes or so. Two and 1/2 minutes. What else have you done your panel yet? Yes, you have. Okay, So what else you had 75 minutes with in front of an audience. What else did you talk about? That we didn’t talk about here or more detail that we didn’t go into enough. We got a couple of bones talk about white privilege of fragility. Sametz. Well, actually, actually want anything I want to bring up was we had a bingo card which included some of these terms, but we did have, ah, exercise on privilege. So essentially, we made some statements. Uh, and people would raise their hand if they felt that reflected on them on DH. Keep their hand down if they felt like it didn’t which there’s been a breach has such a sure such as? I have no college student loans. There were some that raised their hand, Some that didn’t, um that one’s a little easier to answer than others. Like I’ve never been bullied. Some might think, Uh, yes, I’ve kind of been believed, but it hasn’t been to the level of what I think. Other people have been bullied. So what we focused on through that was that it’s a little more complex. It’s not binary either, or sometimes the decisions made in those moments, um, are more complicated. And I think That’s kind of what we want to focus on here. Um, so relate this back to white supremacy. Yeah, sure. Um so white supremacy, white power, White power, White privilege. Okay. Yeah, No. So a lot of, for the most part, this is just to reflect on the fact that the privileges are there. I think that’s Ah, it seems simple, but for a lot of there are a lot of people who will not associate themselves with privilege. Or they’ll say, But I grew up in a poor area without reflecting on the fact that maybe someone else of a different skin color or different gender also did. But it’s staggered. So that and this white powers, you say, white privilege. It’s structural. It’s ingrained in our systems and our institutions, um, and and too tow have those conversations. And to create change, we really have to be reflective and admit that they exist. Okay, way. Have another minute left. So let’s, uh let’s give the wrap up sorrow that I asked you to start with you. Have you mind wrapping up what you want to leave people with? I just really want to challenge people to do the hard work of really looking within themselves to identify any bias is that they may have on and just know that it’s a lifelong commitment. I think a lot of people go into it thinking like, Oh, I’m going to do, you know, for three hour sessions this year and I’m going to be woke check, Yeah, and you know, I definitely want to challenge people, not to feel the pressure to be quote unquote woke. I feel like that’s a word a lot of people have been throwing around recently, and I just think that people need to just do the work consistently in order to be able to change their perspective on different peoples in places and things. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very much for all three of you. Each of you think they are. Joe Schoffner, senior communications specialist at the International Centre for Research on Women. Manabu piela, principal consultant at Brevity and Wit, and Sarah Boysen, director of digital strategy for communications for communities in schools. Thank you again. Thank you. Thanks to you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 sea as non-profit technology conference in Portland, Oregon. This interview. Like all our 1990 si interviews brought to you by, or partners that ActBlue free fund-raising tools to help non-profits making an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break When you see piela CPAs, it’s in the title. You know what they do? Do you need one? Do you need a new one? If you think you might need help or your tinkering around the edges of maybe changing accountants, check them out. You goto weinger cps dot com. Do your due diligence there, of course, and then pick up the phone. Talk to the partner. Yet each tomb who you know because he’s been on the show twice already and he’s going to be coming back. He’s not high pressure. He’ll explain whether they can help you. All right, that’s the process. Get started at Wagner’s cps dot com. Now time for Tony’s Take two. My video is pissed in Brussels. Yes, uh, manic in piss, and that is what it’s called. I’m not being crude, so if you turned off well, if you were to turn off the volume or shut me down, then there’s no point in me saying Don’t because you’ve already done it. But for those of you were still here, like on the fence. Don’t be offended, because that is what it’s called. There’s a statue in Brussels, Belgium, called manic in piss. Okay, maybe it’s peace in Belgium on these manic and peace, but it’s spelled like this. So, um yeah, so I got I got assaulted. I got assaulted by the little statue. Um, he pissed on me and you can see it. You can see it on the video at tony martignetti dot com and then go to Brussels, Belgium, and get some for yourself. Just keep your eyes in your mouth close. That’s all on DH, that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s do the live. Listen, 11 the, uh And you know what comes after that? So the live love goes out. Thank you for listening. I’m grateful. The live love to those of you listening at, uh, Friday 1 p.m. Eastern time. And whatever time zone you might be in, the love goes out to you and the podcast pleasantries My gratitude to our over 13,000 podcast listeners. Sometimes I wonder why you stay with with all the I don’t know the talking about piss and everything else. But you have you have you still here? So the pleasantries go to you and you should stay. Don’t Don’t wonder why Leave? Leave the wondering and the and the worrying to me about that you just stick around Ana. Now here is from 19 NTC. Your normal is my trigger. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 1990 Si. That’s the non-profit Technology Conference 2019. We are in Portland, Oregon, at the convention Center. This interview, like all our 1990 si interviews, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guests now our Barbara Grant. She is CEO of Crux Consulting Consortium sitting next to me and even Gourlay. She’s director of information systems at Food Lifeline Barbara Evey kruckel. Thank you. Thanks for having a pleasure. Pleasure. Your topic is a little provocative Little bit, er when you’re normal is my trigger unpacking multiple generations and white privilege. Let’s start with you. What? Uh what do we need to know? Give us Give us the headline in the lead. Well, what’s going on here? You fundamentally, you have a normal that you view the world of particular way. That is your way of viewing the world. And you think that’s the real way. That’s the truth of the world on you interact with it like it’s absolute, but you don’t appreciate. You do sort of live your life like other people’s normals of the same as your normal. And that causes real problems for people, particularly in regards to white, privileged white. People think that they’re the normal and they don’t attend to the concerns of people of color, and people of color lose out, significantly weaken all these different measures of public health will show that. But it’s very hard for people to see why their behavior is white people houses impact on people of color, and we’re going to delve into the dynamics, underlie the and really give people some access to engaging with how that their behavior has these negative impacts on the world. Okay, what what are some of these negative impacts? Barber? Well, I think that first we start with generations. And so what we’re trying to look at is that if my definition of What is normal is not your definition of what is normal. So, for example, what should be on a recruitment form like if you’re filling out a job application, should you ask people for their gender or not? So some generations would think? Of course, it’s a recruitment Forman application. You put your gender male, female, other generations would think, Why are you assuming my gender? Other people, other generations might think I don’t want to work here because clearly you’re more interested in my gender than my qualifications for the job. And so part of what we’re looking at is it’s not about one thing being bad or good. It’s about looking just to understand. The fundamentals, like Evil is saying, is that there are different definitions of normal and they shape your judgments and the shape your behaviour. And how can we look at that together? In-kind oven on blaming context because too often when we try to talk across differences, what we find is that people are talking, blaming like I think this is normal. You think that’s normal and I’m judging you is wrong. Uh, without trying to make excuse, though. But if we’re talking about across the generations. It’s what those of us and the older generations were brought up with Your butt s o to not make its use something but we can relearn wear depends on which people you’re tryingto hyre were trainable were trainable. Well, I think I just take it from a perspective of utilization based perspective. If you’re trying to hire people who aren’t exactly like you, it might be useful to understand what they think is normal because those are the people you’re trying to hyre those people are trying to work with. It’s not like what you think is wrong or how you were brought up is wrong. It’s just now there are five generations in the workplace, maybe for the first time in human history, because we’re all living longer and we’re not leaving. And we’re actually caring what younger kids kick would think. And another traditions. Other generations, you know, people who are younger really haven’t been accorded a voice, and people who are older either died sooner or left the workplace. So now we have five generations, all of which have been shaped by different understandings of what’s normal and so part of what we’re trying to do is to say these air who were working with on purpose. And so how do we create a workplace that is inclusive and gets the job done that we want? E. What is this normal that we’re talking about? If everyone’s normal is different or their cohorts that so you just coalesce around sort of more or less together. But But as an individual, what’s what goes into my normal? What goes into your normal what? What’s the normal? What are we talking about? Yeah, because you don’t you don’t think about it. It’s like you wake up in the morning and sort of put on your normal right. What is it? The world just seems to be to you a particular way. And the way that it seems to you isn’t necessarily the same way it seems. Other people want me to think about it. I mean, I don’t get too conceptual, but it’s an interesting talking to delve into right, like the context of your world and the content of your world are different things. If you’re a man, you have a view of the world in an expectation of what public safety feels like So it’s you know, too. Am your your friend’s house. You don’t call for a cab. Gonna walk home like it’s an hour. Like as a man, you have a view of whether that’s safe or not, and you’ll have your own opinion of it. If you’re a woman, you’ll have a very different view of that. Now there’s no Is there a reality or whether it is or isn’t safe to walk home? No, there’s no actual like, objective measure of what safety looks like, But I’m a lot of people don’t really understand it. Don’t appreciate that. They do have these. These contexts they view the world through. When you actually start attending to them, you realize that it’s not just like a couple of things. You have this entire world view on this entire perspective that informs everything about your existence, and you’ve probably never thought about it. Once you start thinking, you start finding things that you wouldn’t choose to believe. You know you you have come to believe that based upon experiences that you’ve had and lessons that you’ve learned and you pick up these ideas and you know it’s really good work to do that reflection figured out because it’s not just about race. I mean, it certainly has an impact on race, but it can affect your relationships that can affect your success in business. Your coworkers, like everything that you do in you, your life is in form. But this context and doing the work of digging into it’s really important. We like to look at it from levels in your workplace. In your non-profit. There are things that people you’re trying to attract, people you’re trying to retain professional development, how fast people are promoted, what’s appropriate use of technology in the workplace, What’s appropriate professional behavior, what’s appropriate communication, all of these things of what is appropriate in the workplace, these air. What you think is normal is common sense, and so, but that normal common sense is different, according to these different five generations. And we think it’s pretty funny because we catch ourselves all the time saying, Oh, I guess I thought I just what I thought right? But But it’s not funny when it happens in a space where the dominant normal gets to decide. Like I might think, it’s funny that you think that, but if you are in the dominant position, then that’s what it is. It’s gonna happen. So part of what we try to do is to just open up the conversation so that its future oriented decisions, instead of how we’ve always done it in the past. I had a panel last year at NTC, and, uh, it was related to this topic, and the subject of job descriptions came up, and it was the use of the word professional. You know, a professional makes makes a professional appearance. Yeah, well, that exclude, I think the guests. It was a panel of, I think there were three think there were three. And it was, I think, was Raja Agarwal on everything. He was sitting next to me and he said, So that excludes everybody with dreadlocks in a white privilege world. Those are not professional. So does that exclude everybody who’s black because their hair is different and you know, so that’s where that dominant. But the perspective is different than a note. A new miracle perspective. Yeah, but just to use the word professional, I mean, it’s an office. I do want people to be professional, but then, you know, professional appearance. You know that’s different than comporting yourself as a professional. You don’t even need to say professional. In the job description, you can consult season, think out of an interview. So it’s fun when you start scratching away at that word like professional like, What does it mean to be profession? Doesn’t mean, like no skilled at using office communication tools for understanding. I was 14 XL, but doesn’t mean where’s a shirt and tie e mean it does mean those things, but unless you actually do the work of unpacking it, you don’t know what you mean. And it could be really detrimental to people like my own personal experience. I’m originally from Ireland. Dahna immigrated United States and was about 20 because I immigrated. I interrupted my college experience, and I never actually finished college. But a lot of job descriptions will say, you know, college degree required, and that’s that’s an assumption that people make about, like hiring that that’s a normal for people that if you’ve been to college, you’re there somehow qualified or somehow more capable of doing a particular job. Now I like, almost finished going. I was like one semester away from getting done and I have no regrets about coming to United States like that was absolutely the best decision I made. It was totally worth giving up, called my degree for. But you just got to really take the time to really investigate what you really mean by what you say because it has an impact on people and those impacts show and they’re often invisible. I think if you talk to people, United States, no one’s ever well, very few people will actually claim to be racist or will endorse racist perspectives. Or, you know, it’s very, very rare to find someone who’ll do it. If we do find them, we isolate them pretty quickly. But racism’s vivid and clear it. She was really clearly in the statistics. So how does it keep happening, like word of these, these negative influences come from. You have to be able to look beyond the surface in order to see that, and that’s where this but this work is about. I think what’s really important about the generations conversation, why we’re using this as a vehicle for talking about privileges, that this is a fun and accessible, an easy way to get into this conversation is not anywhere near is. Confronting is talking about race. It can be challenging, but generations it’s it’s a It’s a fun conversation right on dure. Your topic is generations and white privilege. So let’s overlay the white privilege to this. But now we’re at a disadvantage. There’s three white folks talking about white privilege. Well, one of the things we found is that oftentimes one of the dominant mentalities is that people of color should help us talk about white privilege because we don’t know how, which is once again, kind of layering a burden there. So part of one of the thing you just said is why people we don’t ever learn to say the word white like that’s because it was normal. Like if you look, if you read a book, a novel, the characters air never described by the color of their skin unless it’s not white because, like so you don’t say, he walked into the station, his skin was pasty, like the underside of a dead halibut. You know instead, But you would say like this. He walked in, She walked in, they sat down. He set down his skin, was dark, like cinnamon ice cream or something like it’s only described if it’s not white. So these are the kinds of things that that why people have to be able to start talking about. And so but no one ever talks about generational differences too much, either. So we tried it. We call it Training wheels is like if if I can try to talk to you across a different generation if I’ve had people come up. I was working with the A different client group last year and someone came up and said, You know, now I understand how to talk to my son, who’s been living in my basement, and I feel like we’ve never been able to talk to each other like I get it. Our definitions of normal are different. You know, there’s a There’s a lot of desire as what we call a part of a week circle. So, like we are all different generations. But we’re part of a family or we’re part of one circle we already identify as though we were just different, whereas across other things, like race or class or other dominant privileges way don’t see ourselves as a wee we see is us and those people. And so part of what we’re trying to do is even within our circle of who we already think is us. How do we talk across differences well and respectfully. And then how do we use that experience to try to talk across these bigger differences that are a little bit more charged? What kind of worker is the two of you doing together? You’re doing work for food, Lifeline Barbara. Yes. So I’m a consultant. I worked with international NGOs, NGOs, local domestic non-profits, and one of my clients for many years has been food lifeline, which is where I met Yves. And so there was even even if it’s even, that’s right. And so so and our work together is been issues around, trying to change a culture within their non-profit and also doing a move and trying to figure out how we do that move in a more inclusive way to this glorious, gorgeous new hunger solution center that they’ve just taken off the ground. And so a lot of my work has been with this system, and so we met, and here we are. Okay, um, and how did this topic Come, Teo, how each of you get drawn to this topic in the concerns. So one of things I’ve been studying since I do work with many non-profits and associations across the country has been this kind of she drops out in there. This this as I worked with years of all stripes and sizes and you’ll find me at six for 62 What I’ve found is that for the last 6 62 5 to 10 years, people have been very anxious about all these generations in the workplace and also about the great retirement fear that all these people are going to retire. We’re gonna have a leadership gap. And so I started studying what that meant to have a generation retire and what the composition was of the domestic and international non-profit in particular Workforce were all these leaders about to leave what was gonna happen with succession planning and became very interesting to see that they didn’t leave and then the next generation. So those easters air, now 26 at the top. And so now there are people in 1/5 generation. So everyone was all like, oh, skies falling is going to be four generations. And then these people are going to leave. They didn’t leave and these guys came. And so it’s a phenomenon. Now that is very interesting. And people are trying to figure out who are you trying to hyre? And it’s a very different mindset of tryingto hyre now when you’re trying to hyre outside of an assumed normal of a generation, and that could be across lots of industries and sectors. So I was drawn to it by my clients who were concerned and also, by finding it very like. It’s an interesting inflection point in our history as a sector time for our last break. Its text e-giving They have the five part email, many course to dispel the myths around mobile giving. You get one part each day it’s over five days soon as you sign up, they start coming. And then four days, Uh, we say four days hence, yeah, in four days hence, right that the right, Yeah, Hence his post post fact, post facto four days. Expos facto of the of the sign up, you get the remaining courses one a day. It’s an average of one per day. One is also the mode and one is also the median as well as the average. That’s what you get per day after you sign up for the course. What you do at by texting npr to 444999 And we’ve got butt loads. More time for your normal is my trigger. You baby. How about you? Barbara knows me from Food Lifeline and in my work, I’m the director of information systems for Food Lifeline. And what you do in that role is not only manage the system, but also the Iast systems. All the databases that base are works. I’m involved in every aspect of the organizations activity, right from our entry level staff and our new stuff right up to the executive team and then the CEO. So I cross the generations. Anyway, when we started talking about doing this the session together, some of the real issues that I have in my work came up in our discussions, and we really got into them and use this methodology to address those concerns. And we actually cover some of this in the presentation. And it became not just an opportunity to talk about what we love, what we what we care about, but actually to develop food lifelines business as well. So it’s really, really become really engaged in. It’s really become part of our work. Um, okay, you say, in your description, used the framework of generational understanding and predictable triggers to have deeper conversations. I paraphrased a little bit. But what is the general generational understanding of predictable triggers? Is that first of all, is that one that one one of the processors, too? So one of the things that we’ve found is that there are some predictable triggers that will show up across generations. For example, if we say Oh, you know, some of those people are so entitled there’s a whole set of people in the room that will not and laugh and say, I know you’re talking about in a whole other set of people in the room who will feel like the mute button just happened and disrespected and turned off, or one of our other favorites is when someone says, Well, this is the way we’ve done it successfully for the past 10 years and they think that. And so I have now sealed the point and half of the other people in the room think, and so it must be a relevant. And so some of the things that I feel like the most normal thing in the world for you to say someone else receives, like like you just said something completely different. There’s a very real world challenge that I have with this with regard to training and you software. So if I had, like, a new tool like any of the vendors here at this conference, if I had their suffering, if I take this out to the staff, it’s okay. We got this great new tool. It’s going to be awesome. It’s gonna make a big difference in your work. There’s two kinds of responses I’m going to get from older people, you know, boomers and maybe Gen Xers. You’re going to say, Okay, we’re going to training, which means we have to hire a trainer. We’re gonna have a training day and a reason to calm. We’re going for coffee and bagels and everyone going to sit in chairs and listen to the training, and then we’ll go through it. When we’re done, you’re going to find her and you take a binder to death you sent in your desk and okay, you’re trained. Now go and use the software, which means no one’s trained and they just sort of sit there and stare at the screen now. But when I when I try to train people who are younger, like millennials and sisters, it’s an entirely different model on approach. They don’t need that. What they need is give me a can account. Let me access the sulfur and sit down with me for like an hour and show me the basics and then go away would be available. I want access to the knowledge base online. I want to able to watch videos on the Web site. A chat room for users is great, and it’s an entirely different model of training. And my real challenge with that is that in order to train those easters in the millennials how to use the software, which is really what I need to do because they’re the ones that are gonna be using it anyway, I have to convince the leadership that it’s okay and that it’s safe to do that. So we do the training day, we forget about it, and we trained this Easter’s. It’s that there’s a lot of different generational challenges in the workplace that we have to go. Um, but I feel like way diving into the depths of this. I mean, I feel like we’re talking around it a little bit. Are we? Are we getting to the meat of the real issues here? Well, we’re getting to the middle of a generational issue. Just be circum superficial. So one of the most important things Tony is that is just the fundamental except acceptance that you might have a different normal, that it might guide your worldview like Eve’s even example there was and then to say, Okay, so then what? What do I do if my normal is this other thing? But once you fundamentally accepted that it’s different than thinking. Well, those people are idiots, and they should just do this thing or everybody knows, or common sense. People leave that stuff behind, and then they approach the issue like, Well, then how do you do it across five generations? And that’s the attitude where we can then begin to talk about privilege and dominant privilege, because many times, if people say well, you know you’re white So therefore you’ve inherited all of the benefits of being white, and then a person of color has not. There’s all kinds of stuff that goes off in people’s minds like, Well, I’m not racist and it’s not my fault. And I worked as hard as the next person, and it’s all defensive, defensive, defensive. It’s not curious, like if we go back to the other part where we have with generations, where people are like Okay, people have different definitions of normal, what do we do next? That’s curious. That’s like saying we’re we and we have to do something forward. But when we get into issues that are more charged and that are more layered with blame and oppression and dominance, then people generally defend and any kind of diversity training or an attempt to do that generally ends up with people often feeling worse than they felt before and more blamed and more isolated. So part of what we’re trying to do is to bring these two things together and to say, if you can learn this way to move forward with curiosity, what if we took those same tools into these conversations and to say wow your experience of being a woman in the workforce is very different of being a man in the work force or your experience of being cyst. Gendered is very different of my experience of being trans or your experience of being a black woman. Professional manager Leader is very different from mine of being a white woman, professional manager, leader Like what? I work for Microsoft for 10 years and at one point in the building, I was often the only woman in the whole huge restroom. And I would get startled if I saw another woman in the restroom because it was so unused to there being another woman in the building, you know, super different, then going to the theatre where women will wait for, you know, 15 minutes and then I walk in and out of the of the restrooms, right? And so So this is just something to start noticing that your experience is different and if you can fundamentally just accept that without blame, then you can say, OK, what is the workforce we want of the future? And how do we acknowledge that our experiences have been different? Someone may have had a glass escalator and somebody else has been clawing through a ceiling. But once were here together in this organization or in this moment in history, How do we lean towards each other with curiosity? Even you mentioned earlier? I think he said some of the physical manifestations of this among the people who are not the elite in the privileged. Yeah. Oh, our sound like you were referring to research of physical physical manifestations of this in terms of health outcomes. Yeah. Yeah. So, like life acceptance E on DH infant mortality or 22 rates. You can really see health outcomes on people of color in United States. What? We would actually we’re just setting this. Yes, we were talking about the impact of red lining on communities of color. Um, throughout the sort of last century, people color, black people couldn’t buy houses in neighborhood hoods and the weapon looking buy houses. And if people did buy houses in those neighborhoods, white people would leave. And judging the price of the property, this isn’t long term impact on the ability of their children to go to college or, you know, be set up for life. And so you can actually check? Was it like net and come or no wealth for for people, white people have a lot of black people I think is actually about xero. On average, across the population is a really impact on people’s lives and immeasurable. We still have another five minutes or so together. What else can we say about this topic? One thing that I think is really important for me, for your listeners and non-profits is like Take a look at all of the issues you have in your organization. Like what’s holding you back in good terms of growth, that every step of the way you’re going to find some touch of technology and each of those things. I think that’s a contemporary phenomenon. This is this is the era that we live in, and if any of those areas, if you investigate, I bet you find generations underlying those conversations. This is this is not just like an abstract thought exercise around understanding privilege. This is very riel way have, ah, my organization. We’re dealing with a challenge right now. Unlike who makes decisions about process about system, Wei have many experienced people who might be sort of boomers or Gen Xers have been trained, and they’ve learned their skills at a time whenever technology wasn’t a major part of their work. They’re now dealing with that migration to a system that’s very much technology based there, having to get on databases if they’re fundraisers they’re dealing with, like online giving an email and that kind of stuff ability. Younger people who are native in that in that world and they’re coming in wanting to participate, expecting different systems, to be available to them and then not having access to that expertise. It’s challenging. I think we’re going to see in a lot of non-profits shift from expert expert lead programs, toe having technology and performance management systems and business intelligence systems driving management for organizations. There’s a major cultural shift happening in the realm of technology. You’re gonna have to understand how that impacts in the community and the culture of your organization or to be able to deal with it. And one of the things I was I’d say that builds right off of what you talked about about digital natives, one of the one of the huge questions that’s happening right now in our culture in this country is, What does it mean to be native? And what does it mean to be an immigrant or a refugee? And who do we let in? What does that mean? Toe let in and when we look a technology across generations, there’s a concept of at one point people became digital natives. And that’s somewhere in the middle of the millennial generation, where you were born into a system where you had rights and you had privileges and you understood the language. And often when I’m working with people with generations, I’ll say, What does it mean to be a native citizen of a country? And so people will say what you have rights, You know where your addresses and even comes down to, you know, the right language to use. So first generation children well often have to inform. Their parents know you don’t have to say that to school or a siren doesn’t mean that they start interpreting the culture for their parents. And so it’s the same thing with digital native kids who basically interpret the culture for us and say, Oh, no, let me fix it for you. Just hand it over and so but this whole idea of understanding what it means to be in a land a digital land in which you are not native, in which you feel anxious where you feel like things, are at risk, your privacy is at risk. Your data is at risk. You don’t know what you’re doing. You feeling that and allowing people to have some time to think about that generationally. It’s slightly safer. But then it it it rolls back around to say So. What does that mean when we think about who has rights and privileges in our whole society, and what does that mean? And how are we translating that with each other and thinking about, for example, in public education, when your children are your English speakers and the parents may speak primarily another language? How do we think about is our system in English only system in school? Or do we think if we really want family engagement, we have to reach across that in some way? We’ve to begin to think differently. So a lot of the things that we’re talking about with generations and technology while we’re here, you know what the anti unconference and we both have technology backgrounds. And so he’s There are people to some extent, but we also are, you know, we are. You know, Eva and I are not exactly the norm in many other ways in our lives as well. And so we have the experience of not being the dominant norm in a space. And so we bring that to this conversation, not just to say that we’re white people, so we know everything about people of color instead, what we’re saying is that we’re white people and we understand what we’ve taken for granted as the dominant normal. And and we’re trying to figure out a way for people to have conversations that doesn’t involve blame and separation. We’re often times it’s like what I call the diversity sidecar, where you take all the people of color and organization. You put them on the diversity committee, and you kind of sideline them from the main business, right? Right. And so instead, what we’re trying to talk about is what if we were all You know what I call that? I call that divers Committee. Yes, they’re not. They’re not doing diversity for the organization. They are a showpiece committee that is diverse. I call that the divers committee and many of my colleagues who are amazing engineers or consultants or leaders or architects or artists. They’re not invited first to be on the top engineering or architect or artist committee. They’re invited to be on the diversity committee as an assumption because there are people of color. And so part of what I think we have to do is to begin talking about this because it’s not just because what we want to do is tow have organizations and a society where people are able to bring their best expertise into the space and we can talk about it. We’ve got to leave it there. All right, thank you. She’s Barbara Grant, CEO of Crux Consulting Consortium. And next to her is evey Gourlay, director of Information Systems of Food Lifeline Ladies. Thank you so much. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thanks to both of you, This is non-profit Radio coverage of 2019 the non-profit Technology Conference from Portland, Oregon. This interview, like all brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits Macon impact. Thanks. So much for being with us next week. E-giving Tuesday with Asha Curren It’s not too early to start your planning. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you Find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner’s Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy text. NPR, too, that for 44999 creative producers Clam Meyerhoff Sam Lee Board says the line producer Thie shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio. We’re a little late there, Scotty. Yeah, big non-profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking Alternate network way You are listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in sometime potentially ater Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Thie Best designs for your Life Start at home. I’m David here. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 31, 2019: Tech Accessibility & Resilience & Sustainable Impact

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Keith Casebonne & Aurora Holder: Tech Accessibility
Keith Casebonne and Aurora Holder want you to advocate for accessible tools that will make all workers more efficient. From 19NTC, Keith is at Disability Rights Florida and Aurora is from Disability Rights Wisconsin.





Ananda Leeke & Meico Whitlock: Resilience & Sustainable Impact
Ananda Leeke and Meico Whitlock want you to use tech with intention and foster a culture of resilience. They’ve got lots of strategies for mindfulness and intention. Do you know the Eisenhower Matrix? Also from 19NTC, Ananda is with Ananda Leeke Consulting and Meico is the Mindful Techie.





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of Bobby’s aosis if you ticked me off with the idea that you missed today’s show. Tech Accessibility Keith Castle Bon and Aurora Holder want youto advocate for accessible tools that will make all workers more efficient from 19 NTC. Keith is that disability rights Florida and Aurora is from Disability Rights, Wisconsin and Resilience and Sustainable Impact. Ananda Leak and Miko Whitlock. I want you to use tech with intention and foster a culture of resilience. They’ve got lots of strategies for mindfulness and intention. Do you know about the Eisenhower Matrix? Also, that is from in-kind teen NTC. Ananda is with Ananda Leak Consulting, and Miko is the mindful techie. I’m Tony Steak, too. Be a good American. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising, data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text. NPR to 444999 Here are Keith Castle Bon and Aurora Holder. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 si It’s a non-profit technology conference were at the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and this interview, like all our 19 ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by our partners at Act Blue Free. Fund-raising Tools help non-profits make an impact with me Now are Keith Castle Bon on Aurora. Holder. Keith is the technology and communications manager for disability rights, Florida and Aurora. Holder is manager at Disability Rights Wisconsin. Welcome to each of you. Thanks for having us. Welcome is disability rights in every state in the country you’re representing Wisconsin and Florida. Is there one in every every state? Correct. There is its federally mandated. Oh, okay, okay. I mean, the organization is federally mandated, but what do you mean? Having protection and advocacy organization that’s independent from the government is federally mandated in each state. So what, Like you have an independent kind of watchdog to look at, like, institution that might be practicing, you know, inhumane practices against the clients they would having this independent agency that comes and overlooks that because it’s really hard. Maybe the government to regulate. That is, it was rolled out because they were seeing so many atrocities and nothing was being done about it. So they decided you need to be an independent agency from the government, although we’re funded by the government. But we need to have that ability to come in and look at that. But we do have elevated writes that maybe other organizations we have to look at records and things like that. Are you also funded by individual gifts as well? You fund-raising? You okay? So it’s not not unlike the Legal Aid Society krauz required by law to have defense available on DH. It’s partially funded by government. Then they also do their own fund-raising. Well. Essentially, the federal government gives us money to be the watchdogs for our individual states for disability rights. So it’s kind of interesting concept that I think different in a lot of other non-profits out there. Let’s talk about the advantages to having well being a tech accessibility advocate toe having having technology be accessible on DH. The advantages, too. The world at large, not advances don’t only accrue to those who have specially need accessibility. Is that my I like going in the right direction. Aurora. Yeah, what are what are some? What’s the fight to make the case? Aside from the legal requirement? What? What would I say? It’s a tech. A accessibility advocate. How about I start making the case in my organization that what we’re trying to focus on is making sure that people know that you know, accessibility way? Want to move towards a universal like everything is available to everyone like your software isn’t just available to certain pop population that you’re looking at how to make a universal and so that’s a lot what were focusing on and what’s the advantage to doing that, um, that you’re hitting a wider audience because there’s so many disability, you can’t you can’t just do one little thing and accessibility. There’s so many things we’re trying to cover such a wide, wide net, that just looking at it in the different approach of making it universal, versus what makes sense for me as a developer or whoever is creating them thing that they’re going in there. They’re really looking at it in a lot of different ways, teething about all the different users that might be using it. Also, there’s like money, incentives. You’re when you’re not making a software like shopping out that’s accessible, then you’re you’re losing out on a bunch of people that cannot act, you know, by stuff on your website. You’re on because they have economic power. But you’re not. You’re not accessing. Yeah, Keith, what can you have the outset here? Well, on the plus side of making things accessible, you’re also making them usable for everyone. And in fact, one of the things that will showing our session is that a lot of accessible technologies out there end up helping people who don’t maybe technically have a disability. S o. How is that flush that out a little bit? How does that work? What are some examples of that? Well, so one product that we’re going to mention eyes, a piece of software that you can put on your computer screen to adjust the colors and brightness of the images on. That’s good for people who might have get migraines for looking at their screen. Uh, we’re just getting headaches, dizziness, whatever. This software can actually make it easier for you to sit at your desk and do your job, which is great for people with disability. But I know people without disabilities that use that all the time just to help get there. Get through there. Day, Okay? No. What are the standards that disability rights is enforcing? Is there there a code? How do you measure whether there’s compliance or not against against what set of standards? Well, there’s so there’s originally there was a section five away, which is law from the seventies, that mandates that any government entity needs to be accessible, and that goes into services and other things. Now, of course, in the 19 seventies, you know we didn’t have websites. We have a lot of technology we have today, but that law has been broadly interpreted to include those things. Thie, Americans with Disabilities Act in 18 90 also adds to that a good bit on Does talk about technology to some degree? Uh, other than that, there’s not a lot of specific laws in America that other countries have different laws in America. That’s kind of where the laws end. But then, too, on top of that, there’s a lot of accessibility guidelines out there that you can follow one that really is common is the world. Our Web consortium has their Web accessibility, content guidelines. That is sort of like a framework to make sure that websites are accessible, for example. So okay, are there they’re specific tools. Are we able to talk about specific tools and resource is for for making your sight accessible? Um, well, our our session in particular isn’t trying to focus on websites. Actually, because there is so many accessible website, you’re not Okay, So we’re trying to focus on as I t manager attacked person in your organization. Anybody dealing with technology that you’re thinking about how to make what you’re putting out there accessible like that could be your instructions. That could be just an e mail that you’re sending to your staff. Video training videos, like all kinds of stuff that people would have to, um do as part of training e-giving staff information is accessible and not assuming that your entire staff, I have told you, like if they had a disability and what they could do to accommodate it because they’re way did find statistically that there could be upwards of 30% or more of unreported disability. You know, like people that just aren’t saying anything, and that’s fine there. You know, they don’t have to reveal all that, but making sure that you’re thinking about that, not putting you know, your head in the sand, just pretending like, Oh, well, you know, I don’t need to put all text on that image that of that screen shot I did in my instructions. Like, you know, you know, it probably won’t affect anybody in the staff, but you don’t know there’s somebody that uses the screen reader every day, Teo, because maybe their vision’s going Or there’s a variety reasons. People you screen rears its not just for people that are blind, you know, and just being more cognisant of different types of disabilities in ways you can. You can make easy adjustments. Or it could just be someone that’s has time, keep, you know, being keeping track of time. Or they’re you know, they’re just going on and they’re, you know, working on stuff, and they can’t seem to keep focus. There’s there’s all kinds of things that you could be aware of that could help that, and being people in the field, we’re seeing that with people And if you’re not realizing what’s out there than you’re not helping those individuals realized because they don’t may not realize what tools are out there. Yeah, okay, it’s time for a break. Pursuing you are the first impressions. The sea book is still up. How to combine Strategy analytics and Creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back? That’s their e book on donor acquisition. Had to make that great first impression so that donors stay with you. And don’t just make that one gift and then trail off as we know Don’t have attention is like 75%. You don’t want that. You get the book through the listener landing page. It’s at tony dot m a slash pursuant with the capital P for please. Now back to tech accessibility. So alright, this’s the with the what the team is putting out for for general consumption or just for within their own team. It’s you she’s thinking about organizational levels organization wide. Yeah, OK, yeah. So examples you mentioned. Example User guides. What else? What else should listen to be thinking about what? Even if they may be, they don’t even have their own team but right related related to tech. What kinds of things should be conscious of that? That that should be tech? That should be accessible, right? Well, we’re moving to all these cloud APS and stuff, but nobody’s really test like a lot of them aren’t accessible, actually to screen readers and other technology assistive technology that would help people disabilities read or submit things to it. So are you evaluating that before you purchase that software so that you are like, Let’s say you have a online recruitment software that you’re using? Teo Get in people that they can apply in your website? Well, if it’s a screenwriter, can’t read the form fields and, you know, look through it and pushing cement. Then they’re not applying for that job, screening out all those people who could be accommodated but can’t apply right? Sure, Keith has some more samples. Okay, well, And in the office, for example, You know, your office manager buys a new copier, and I wouldn’t give a thought to anything about accessibility, but someone on your staff eyes in a wheelchair, and they can’t open the lid or reach the control panel. Now there are copies out there that the control panel flips down, and so it becomes accessible when there’s handles to lift him up, you know, closed the lid. So there’s they’re out there. The solution’s air out there. But you have to put a little time and effort into finding them. And and that’s the kind of things we try to promote awareness of because it’s not that anyone means that he harmed anybody. They’re just not sort of thinking that far ahead. Exactly. So we want to make him a lot more aware. Especially something. So ordinary is a copier. Exactly. You wouldn’t think I use it. Fine. You know what? It’s obvious when you say it, um, so I’d like to raise more consciousness. So what else? What are the things in the office tech wise? Should be conscious of that we may not be, Well, any software that anyone uses, which we’ve already touched on, a little bit of cloud acts, that sort of thing. You want to make sure that you know, if you’re if you’re an organization, this client base, like most non-profits are you want to know that you’re your client database system is accessible. You might. You might buy something that looks great, has all the features. One. And then you set up the implemented. You take months, and the gentleman that uses the screen reader goes toe access that software and finds out this wasn’t making any sense to me. I can’t. I can’t follow what I need to do. And if you if you if you If you build that sort of accessibility testing into your purchasing your framework requirements are P, whatever, exactly then then you could you confront. You could work with that. And you can. You can find the right tools out there which, in and of itself, could be a challenge. Because not every vendor is very forthcoming with, you know, they’ll tell you it’s accessible. Uh, even if it’s not, you really have to be vigilant. Do your own research because they want to make a sale. Would you have to ask, You know, are you compliant with these? You said the consortium has guidelines. So is your product that we’re considering compliant with these. I forget the name Well, there’s 65 away and Ada, and you’ll get a lot of blank stares. You ask these questions and they won’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Well, we’ll get back to you. We’ll talk. Let me talk to my boss and I can’t take any times. I’ve never heard back from them because they don’t really know what to say. So it’s something that you’ve got to do your own research, and it takes a lot of effort because the vendors aren’t very helpful. Okay. All right. Um, what else? But obviously your website, it should be possible that that one’s easy. There’s, I think, is a person to heightening accessibility culture that’s apart. We’re covering as well about called you in your organization, start making that step and changing the ideas of what you know, having people open up and think about Oh, man, we do that all the time. But I didn’t think about that in the way of accessibility in the work we do or planning for what? If you do hyre somebody that’s that has a disability on DH, then you didn’t You didn’t think about that when you purchased all that different technology for whatever that that might happen down the road. And so now you’re kind of, you know, you’re eliminating what they? Khun! D’oh! How do you start to change that culture? Aurora, would you start at the top or you have conversation down below And then bring it up You Khun Dio school combination of stuff just from like again You start saying, Well, I’m going to make you know, make sure all the stuff communications, digital communications that you’re sending out are accessible. I’m going to have a framework of when we’re evaluating software that I’m going to make sure that accessibility is Check your your building in this part of your assessment are ready. You’re going, Tio, apply the theory of universal design if you if you’re non-profit does create certain things like that’s more applicable if you’re doing, you know, actual designing of software and things. But I know some non-profits that do do that. They create aps, they do grassroot efforts things, and they should be aware of that. Things that they need to do to make sure that that’s universally designed Well, so everybody can be a part of that. I’m thinking through my list here. Leadership to leader leader shevawn buy-in. It has got to be critical walking in other people’s shoes, testing it yourself, have you, you know, gone and taken put installed a screen. And there’s lots of free ones out there that you can put on your computer and, like go through maybe a sight or form or software anything and just run through it and see, Is it Can I get through this and sometimes showing that to your superiors? If you can actually demo it and make it something real, then you know that makes it more real to him. They see it and they say, Oh, wow, I didn’t realize that such and such of are, you know, products it won’t work. If this individual is blind, let’s say, or or or whatever Those are Roger’s point. You hyre someone in the future. Yeah, exactly. Who needs these accommodation? Right? And if your product is working, like on an app or something that goes out to the public again, you don’t want to find out after the fact that such you know someone can’t access you’re at because it doesn’t have the accessibility features built in. But you can demo the process before you put something out and show it to a superior to the director that goes a long way to getting them to sort of start to change the culture in on then that no two vendors not only sometimes you create something, not something you know, A lot of days of databases are remade, you know, serums. You could test that. But sometimes you get something made for you, like a website, or you know, So it’s checking with them and really, are the references legit? Are they? Do they really care about accessibility of the hiring staff that are trained to look at those things? Is that part of their value system? Looking at that, I had a time before you jump into a big project where we just got this really big, beautiful website, but most of it’s inaccessible. I think we’ve tried both actually schooled vendors on the fact that their software was inaccessible when they didn’t know the insert, we’d end up testing it and say, Well, by the way, it does not work with Screen Reader. It has this problem. Is this flaw etcetera? And then they’re just Oh, okay. Do they always make changes? Not necessarily. But you put him on the spot. If there If there, uh, if they’re unaware, then you kind of you can show them and, you know, at least maybe a few of them will make a change. Hyre Remember you mentioned cloudgood a lot of cloud platforms or not screen meter accessible. I mean, we’re like, like software like databases and things like that, like Microsoft’s doing a really good after and making accessibility of priority for them. So, like if it’s maybe your whole Google, too. I mean, they’re all there realizing that they have to make their products, they have to fall that universal design principle, right? But then there’s a lot of, like, you know, people that create software, that they don’t have it as part of their value system that they make sure their designers and developers are understand universal sign, understand what makes a software accessible and aren’t thinking in that mind sat at all. And so they just hyre, you know, whoever, and they don’t train them. Maybe some are good, and they don’t. That doesn’t matter in the train after the fact and be part of their value system, but often you find that it’s not, and people are building these acts that are supposed to be available for millions of people, but they’re really not, or it becomes an afterthought. Sometimes that we were hoping more people you know don’t think about it is an afterthought is it’s part is part of your process, just like you would develop a budget just like you would test the software. You know, like all these components that you might do is just part of your chart of your process and your values. OK, ghisolf sometime left another six minutes or so together. What else you’re gonna covering your session that I haven’t asked you yet? We haven’t talked about well. Part of what we mentioned earlier about talking to changing the culture is you can start with, you know, you could start yourself and and make sure that your own communications, your own email, your own documents are done accessibly. And so one aspect of training is that really talk about your specifics and how to get it down to choosing the right fonts, for example, that are more that’s being more readable. Fund for someone with dyslexia, for example, maybe letters are easier to read. Uh, so there’s a lot of nuances like that using the tools that you already have. Microsoft Office or Google docks things like that, and they have features that allow you to make three documents accessible without doing anything, really all that special. It’s all right there. You don’t need to buy special software or anything like that, but people don’t do it. They don’t even know about it, or they feel like it’s not worth the effort, but the efforts really minimal. And so we’re going to show what some of those things are and how you can create PowerPoint presentations. Dahna brochures, etcetera that that that are are are just fully accessible. So what were you going to be showing? Well, so, for example, in in any modern word processor, there’s a feature called Stiles, and everyone seen them like you opened up Microsoft Word and they’re at the top in the toolbar is all these little book two different styles, you know, titles, heading, anyone heading to et cetera. The most people don’t do that. Most people will right the title and those selected, and they’ll make it bold. We’ll make it blue and they’ll make it, you know, 20 points, fonder, whatever. Well, visually, it looks great. but there’s no meaning to it. For someone who uses a screen reader or other assistive technology to explain that, that’s the title waken visually see the best title. That’s great. If you think about picking up the newspaper, you scan a newspaper, you know, by looking through the headings, and then you have something you’re interested in. You know, maybe you choose that article. Start reading it an individual with screen reader, whether it be a document, a website, whatever, if, if it’s not properly, you know, marked up essentially with four of those for morning, right? The formatting is like, you know, metadata. That’s in these styles. That and that’s the key. And so when you use that same with screen Reader has a tool that they could just read the headings. They could literally do the same thing that you know, if you visually scan a document to see what you want to read, it’s the same thing. But if you don’t if you don’t tell them what a heading is, the only choice it has is to start from word one, you know, picture picking up a newspaper and read in the title of it every time you want to go down to the bottom, you have to start at the top again and read the name of the paper, the price the you know, the editor that gets really old really fast. So when you when you mark these things up properly, they can jump to where they want to go, and it just becomes a more usable document for that. If you’re, like, all doing all caps, that’s like screaming. And there’s all these new and people do that with, like, you know, they’ll write out something. I’m really want someone to know. This is important in here, but you know you could you can make it all caps with styling without affecting the screen reader use durney something into a color and raising the font size doesn’t communicate anything with styles have that formatting metadata built in and yeah, and the same time in the end, if you’re writing a long document and you want to reform at it, But you know, if you do with the way you used to doing it, you gotta go back in and re select. Everything changed that, you know, color from blue to red or whatever Well, if you just change it in the style with the snap, it’s all done. Everything’s updated, so there’s lots of good reasons to do it just for your own workflows. People just don’t think about that. And if you’re a 19 manager, we talk way. Do like we create president power point presentations and styles that we might put into staffs a word Or, you know, like just we’ll plug it in there so that they have that framework to work from right away and they don’t have toe because everybody’s new and they may not know, like you might have new staff that don’t know how to use that that kind of tools until you teach them. But they we want to make that easy. And as I t managers or attacks, we can go in and add those pieces so that at least if someone’s going to get that Power point presentation on Gay didn’t get that accessibility training. If that’s part of what you do at your agency, they can know that that one. If I use this one, you know they have a start in creating it’s not 100% right because they don’t add all text to have bitterly but in their world. And it’s no not accessible start framework. And you could do that as I T manager. You can also develop check lists of things. You go through it with you when you’re adding and having a new staff come on like things that might help them in orient. You two, maybe what their needs are like. It could be everything from, you know, simple things like ergonomics. Um, it could be increasing the font size on their screen. They may not. Some people don’t realize that that that a lot of built in to windows and everything you, Khun, go up Tio 125 1 150% on on the screen. So everybody’s struggling, you know, we’re tryingto look at that screen they didn’t realize. You know, there’s this quick little setting I’ll have to do is turn that upto 1 25 and things got a lot better and a coworker just last week who left your reading glasses at home and I said, Oh, no worries and I did exactly that. It turned up to 100%. She’s like, Oh, I don’t even need him anymore. But, you know, just no one really thought about it. Yeah, there’s an example to of helping the non disabled community. Teo benefits a side benefit of accessibility. Nothing I was thinking of was not all. Not all challenges and disabilities are our permanent Somebody. Somebody might have an eye infection. Andi need a screen reader for a week, for sure. Well, they’re taking their course of antibiotics, so it could be something temporary as well. Okay, uh, on don’t know, too, if if you if your people in your organisation realised that you have a culture of trying to help, you know, to improve your accessibility standards. People that do have disabilities that maybe don’t want that out, they’re more likely feel accepted. They’re more like to feel included, and they’re more likely to give out ideas and participate when they fill that they have those connections and that their agency cares about those things. Otherwise, they feel like they’re marginal lines. We’re gonna leave it there. That’s actually very good. That’s a perfect ending. All right. They are Keith Castle, bon technology and communications manager at Disability Rights Florida and Aurora Holder, I t manager at disability right to Wisconsin. Keith Arora. Thanks very much. Thank you, Tony. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990 season non-profit Technology Conference This interview Like all our 1990 si interviews brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits making impact Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break when you see piela is their accountants. You know what accountants do? Do you need one? Do you need a new one? Do you need the help of one? That’s pretty much the same as needing one talking heat Heat Coach Tomb. He’s a partner in the firm has been a show on the guest on the show and a show on the guest. He’ll be honest with you and tell you whether Wagner can help you with your accounting needs. A place to get started is at wetness cpas dot com Now time for Tony Steak, too. My video is two ways to be a good American abroad. As I said last week, this’s from my trip to Brussels, Belgium, for a day and witnessing some bad behavior with language and currency money in in Brussels by some, um, Americans who were Ah well, last week I said ugly, unsympathetic to thee to the native people that they were visiting. And I think you should be a little more sympathetic. Little more outreaching, a little more giving right. That’s how to avoid being that that bad American. So my video, of course, is the positive way. Two ways to be a good American abroad. You can check that out at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony’s. Take two Now here is resilience and sustainable impact. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990 si. That’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center. All of our 1990 siente views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. My panel now is Ananda Leak and Mika Whitlock. Ananda is chief mindfulness officer at Ananda Leak Consulting, and Miko is a speaker in trainer on DH. The mindful techie Ananda we go Welcome. Thank you for having a pleasure. Miko, Welcome back to non-profit radio. Thank you. Having a welcome for your first time. Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you Mind. We’re talking about your session topic, which is activating a culture of resilience and sustainable impact. Ananda, let’s start with you. What? You give us the headline and lead here. What was the need for the session? The need for this session was Teo really help non-profit organizations and the staff that worked for them understand that they can take better care of themselves one by slowing down and looking at how they communicate, how they’re interacting with each other, the rituals that they have setting on intention as well as looking at how do they want to use technology and a healthy and a mindful way I’m also looking at What would they like to do with these changes in the next 30 16 90 days? And that was something that nickel focused on the intention, the values and then your action plan. Okay, Miko, you wantto introduce us to the topic as well, Please. Yeah, So you know, we live in a damn time where technology and access information is really driving with our person dahna fresh in a life and in the nonprofit sector particular way, have a challenge of described as what best describes as a fire drill culture. Right. Jeff Kanter? Yes. It was on your panel but could not be here. Yes, she had to leave last night. Yes. So Beth describes his culture a fire drill culture where we are sort of moving from crisis to crisis. And we have to do list. That’s right. Now, Long and we have our project listens a mile long. But oftentimes those things that are on the project we started to do list. We ask ourselves, what is our intention? What is our mission? What are you driving toward? We often have a list full of things that aren’t actually related or lined. And so this is about getting in alignment and using tech to do that versus letting it rule you and being unintentional unmindful. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. This is related to what you and I talked about last year. You were? Of course, you were the mindful techie last year. And I remember something you said that’s stayed with me. And I’ve implemented this that you, uh you tell you tell clients up front that you don’t answer email over the weekend. That was right. I hope you’re right. Yes, I’m doing it. Yeah, so it’s xero. It’s about establishing your rules of engagement. And so it’s one of things you can do where people are overwhelmed, like I have all these things to do. I feel like there’s just application for me to be on 24 7 Well, one of the simple things you can do simply to communicate. Here’s how I communicate Well, here’s the tool that I use. Here’s what you can respect expect in terms of a response. You could do this as an individual. You can do this for your team. You can have a discussion as an organization, and what this allows you to do is for you to turn off your phone, turn off your email and know that if you need to be reached, that your team has been given instructions on how to actually reach your something is truly urgent. And if you’re not reachable, they know, like what the next step in the process is. They know what, who Dakota contact or what the protocol is. There aren’t able to reach you and Ananda Help! Help tie this together. So how does uh uh, well, he Miko calls and rules of engagement, I would say setting boundaries. But however you describe it, how does that help you be a more resilient and sabat sustainable organization? Well, first of all, when you make that commitment to yourself, that’s really saying to yourself, I am prioritizing me. I’m practicing self care and that’s the piece. The mindfulness piece that we emphasize yesterday and our session is that whether you’re listening to yourself or listening to others speaking to others, speaking to yourself, all of that communication starts here. It starts with ourselves. So when you invest in, I’m going to set a boundary with how much time I spend communicating with people as well, a CZ using the technology that allows you to kind of settle in and see what’s really happening, really Take the time to say I’m a little out of balance over here. I’m a little out of balance over here, and this is what I can do to bring more balance in if you’re a leader and we had a lot of folks that lead teams in our session, you’re setting an example for how the folks are interacting and and what you do is a leader your team follows. So if you’re all over the place, if you’re stressed out, then your team is, and that doesn’t work for anyone. You want to be productive, you want to be effective. And the way that you could do that is using mindfulness and slowing down and practicing self care. And then that changes the culture that helps you become a resilient person, team and organisation and sustainable and sustainable. Because because unmindful sort of chaotic, what does best say Fire, fire, fire, fire, drill kind of organs that culture is not sustainable. People going to leave because they just can’t work in that kind of environment. Exactly. People stay, people stay home. You have higher rates of Peterle. I’m taking health leave before those things. You have people who maybe it wouldn’t take three hours to do something if they were arrested. If they had the time, If they weren’t responding to emails all times during the day and night and even on the weekends, so is really looking at Hey, how are we treating ourselves first? Because that that impacts your clients that impacts their bottom line in pressure. Dollar. You know your profit. Yeah. This is not just about health. Know which is which is should be sufficient, but for a lot of people, it’s not. It’s also a bottom line costs. Yeah, And if your health outcomes or poor because you’re in a on unsustainable work environment, then that’s going to impact your your your health insurance premiums. Yeah, and people who are stressed out make more mistakes, you know, And productivity. Yeah, and you have to keep coming back to fix it. And so you’re using a lot of time. Use a lot of energy. People are not working at their best. They’re not working smart. So I’m guessing you had a lot of strategies for Ah, avoiding the the the fire crisis kind of management organizational culture. Okay, why don’t you kick us off mindful Techie? Yeah. So, Mikko, one of the first things is really taking a step back to get clear about what is your intention And what is your vision? Any particular point in time? If you have a list of Mao longer things that you have to do, the reality is that you only have a certain number of hours in a day, and in a week you have a certain amount of energy and attention that you’re able to give to those things that are on your list. And so you want to make sure that whatever you’re choosing to focus your time on is Number one mission, Aline. That’s that’s personally and professionally. The second thing you want people to do is not all of those things are off equal importance that are on your list. So you wanna be able to prioritize. Prioritize means to essentially say yes to one thing and no or not right now to something else so that you could give your time and attention and focus to what’s actually important. Have you Have you seen that Eisenhower Quadrant? Yes, I knew that if I used the pool okay, so well, we don’t have the benefit everybody most. Most of our audience is listening. Some will be watching video, so there’s no point in drawing. And I don’t think I can get Teo please. So, essentially, the Eisenhower principal, this is ah ah, tool. That’s attributed to Eisenhower’s just a foursquare quad. It’s essentially helps you identify what’s urgent versus important at this particular point in time. So what needs your time and attention right now? What can be scheduled? What can be delegated or our automated and what could be eliminated from your list altogether? Because it is not really relevant or it’s not really important. And one of the challenges with along to do Listen project list is folks think that everything is of equal importance. So they stressed themselves out, trying to do everything simultaneously. And when I work with people on this, that really asked a series of power of questions. And one of them is, if you could only do one thing of those 50 things that are on your list, which one thing would be so impactful that would make everything else on that list either easier or irrelevant to do? Here’s an example that came up in the workshop. A woman said, I have. I hear what you’re saying about prioritizing and picking one thing, but I have 50 things on my list. What I don’t I don’t know where to start. And she ended up actually answering her own question because what she realizes that Okay, well, if I prioritize actually training my new staff. Then I would actually have less things to do because that my staff would be empowered to do those things. And so if I said over the next 90 days, I’m going to focus on that that thing on my long to do list first, you actually shorten your to do list by doing one of them exactly prioritizing that as number one. Exactly. Okay, all right. And so another tip that folks can use. And this is just working in larger groups and your team’s. One of the things that came up in the mindful communication group is that people did not feel like they were heard. They felt like when they go to meetings, they’re really just waiting so that they can get out what they need to get out because they’ve got an agenda. The folks that are running the meeting have an agenda, and no one is really slowing down tto list, and you’re just really ready. Just to respond is like you’re talking, and then I’m not listening to you because I’m preparing my next statement. So I offered to the group that won you start your meeting with a mindful moment. That’s something where you can have 30 seconds, 60 seconds, maybe a minute. If you have more time, you can do a mindful meditation, but just taking some deep breaths so that everyone can arrive. Another thing folks talked about was that when they have one on one communication with folks, folks are looking away their on their phones there. By the way, when I’m looking away, I’m looking at volume. You almost looking the number of minutes. OK, I’m not I mean, I’m not turning 90 degrees to go, right? Aye. There’s two things that attract your volume and write and how much time we spend. So we’re right here together. Rules of engagement. Exactly. One engaged with me. I got you. Tolerate. I’m going t 10 degrees offer. You’re looking at it. I totally understand. And I’m with you and you’re with me. You’re you’re you’re managing this process. So I I understand that However, if you’re all over the place and your were supposed to be talking, I don’t feel heard, so I don’t It’s Yeah, Well, that’s one. That’s one person made that comment that it’s rude, but what it is is that you’re missing an opportunity to really hear what your colleague is saying, which is involving the bottom line, which is the profit, which is what? Doing good work. You’re missing that opportunity and it’s it’s really saying You don’t respect yourself and you don’t respect the other person. So one thing that people can do is institute a rule where you put your cell phone down, maybe collect the cell phones, put the laptop down, meeting at meetings. Yeah, meaning so people can really engage with each other or dedicate a particular part of the meeting for people to Because because I know in meetings folks are taking note lorts and so they’re using their phone. They’re using their their computers. But to dedicate a portion of that meeting so that people are one on one, they get to see it. Your present. Some of the components of mindful communication are one. You have the intention to be present, too, that you are actually present. How how do we become president? We become president with our breath just simply taking a deep breath in and out. Your breath is with you at all times. I say, make your breath your B F F. The third component is making sure that you’re that that person recognizes that you’re there. That’s the active listening, the act of speaking. We have that eye contact, you know, and and then engaging with folks. I know what I’m going to say, but you’re going to say something else so that I actually hear you in. It’s responding. It’s like giving that affirmation So all of those things really do help shape the culture that helps with folks understanding that there heard that allows people to feel respected. That allows you to get out what you need to say. It bills team confidence in helps productivity. It resolves conflicts. If you have a conflict with someone else and you’re looking away, that doesn’t do anything except add to to the issue, so it helps you transform problems into possibilities. It za superpower that we’re all missing mindfulness, you know, time for our last break text to give the five party male many course that dispels the myths around mobile giving. You know how to get the thing. You text NPR, too, for for for 999 and break down the myriad myths around mobile giving like that it has to go through through a phone company, and the donor’s phone bill is where is that puts a limit on the amount that they can give. It doesn’t have to work that way. That’s one of the myths on you will crush the others by getting the email many course over five days. Text NPR to 444999 and we’ve got butt loads more time for resilience and sustainable impact. I have some of that, and I don’t mean this trite Lee. But some of that is just things that I think I I grew up, I think a lot of grumbling being called, you know, courtesy your your your attentive When people are talking to you, you’re listening. You know you’re not thinking of your next sentence napor waiting for them to pause so you can get it in. But you’re listening on DH. You’re giving them your attention and no, now we say you’re you’re mindful of your on intentional about your presence, but I think on again, not trite. But like a lot of it is common courtesy that I don’t know if it’s technology has led us away from or its are burdensome work schedules. That is maybe a combination, you know. But I hear a lot of what you’re saying as courtesy. It is courtesy. But what you said what you just said with the technology and are burdensome schedules and then just the drive of of our country. I can’t talk about other countries, just a drive of our country, that we want it right now. All of that has taken courtesy and its dumped it out the window. I mean, we’re altum. I’m sure we’re all taught that, but you’re trying to get stuff done and you have someone who’s pressing you. You’ve got deadlines. The best of us have those intentions and myself included. But if you’re so wrapped up in responding and and I’m using myself because that as an example, what are you going to do to slow down? But it’s it’s the breath. A lot of time. A lot of times I will say maybe not a lot. Occasionally I will say, you know, could you just repeat what you said? Because I apologize. I my mind wandered for those last couple senses, or, um, nothing I’ve done is put off discussion so I can’t focus on this right now because of this other thing. Can we delay whether it’s a day or 15 minutes or whatever? You know, I know that I can’t give you my full attention. Yes, I’m sorry that I can’t because we had scheduled something, But I can’t do it right now. I won’t be at my best with you. I’ve done that occasionally. People always understand, and I think they’d rather reschedule. I’m you know, I’m sorry I’m disappointing you, but we’ll have a much better outcome if if you can meet me halfway and we could do this tomorrow or next week Yeah. Miko. Another strategy principle for us. Tow. Be mindful and intentional and contribute to our resilience and sustainability. Yeah, so I think around the technology to do it, I’ll just give AA few things. So one is, you know, to really take a look at your smart watch, your smartphone, your tablet, all those things which are really wonderful to do our work. But to really assess of all the acts that you’re using, which of those things are mission critical versus which aren’t mission critical and for the things that aren’t mission critical that getting in the way That of distracting. Turn off the push notifications. If Facebook Instagram, this is a good one. You said this last year too, but it bears repeating by no means. Yeah, if dated. Exactly. You don’t have to write your own ticket. These notifications all Exactly. If you know the CNN breaking news alerts. If those things aren’t mission critical, turn off the alerts. That is Facebook will be their instrument would be there. Standing will be there if you want to follow that. But we’re going toe Take back our attention. Take back our time. Take back our focus extend the quality of our focus so that no one on this point that when we are talking like my phone isn’t buzzing And then I’m trying I’m trying to think about okay, this thing I didn’t respond too well. Who like me. What is it? What does pocket buzzing? What? What’s there That is compared to what I’m doing with you and then I’m like Sorry, Tony, could you repeat the question? Your pocket is lighting up. You know there’s something else that I took away. It was it was either from the panel last year. Or Amy Sample. Ward is a regular contributor on the show. She talked about technology and social media. It was it was either your panel or or she and another interview suggested turning off the badge in the mail on your phone. Yes, I think the number in your phone was yes. Panel. Yes. And I did it. Yeah, and I don’t feel that I don’t feel stressed. I don’t have to see the number one. It’s going up. It’s this high is for, and I haven’t been there yet. It doesn’t matter. The little little old thing is there. I don’t know. It’s not even there isn’t there, and it’s not his blank. No, it’s not even there yet. It just just the icon without the badge. I don’t need to know that I have one or six or 12 messages. I’ll get to it when I get to it. You don’t need to tell me the check. E mail. It’s not something I’m going to forget in 2019. I can’t possibly forget to check email, and I think this is particularly important with email where we get more chemo. Then we have the capacity to actually address in some cases. So turning off the notification that shows you how many messages awaiting that little badge that lowers your anxiety level? It actually works, you know. Worked for me. Yeah, Just I worked for me and part of it. The part. The reason that worked was because the devices are intentionally designed to capture your intent. Your attention, right? And so there’s a lot of thought that goes into the notifications, how they flow, the sound, the color and all those things that actually influence that. So I’ll take this. Yes, it stop the damn badges. Red. Yeah, it’s great. It’s another. Yes, the reds. Exactly. Stop what you’re doing and come to my number and look in your email. So here’s a bonus too. Okay. If you turn your tablet or your phone. Two gray scale. But you’re essentially looking at a black and white device, right? And it has less appeal. So you’re not just picking up your phone, you know that random moments, thinking Okay. What am I like visually engaging, less engaging? Exactly. So you have children. You have to pause and think about. Okay. Well, what am I doing at this moment what I want to do with my device in my hand, because all of a sudden becomes like a less attractive toy if you become the less attractive, shiny object, if you will, because you’ve turned off the color setting. Is that in the color on iPhone? Is that in colors and brightness? It’s a city, its inaccessibility setting, its inaccessibility in-kind osili excellent. I wouldn’t have found it there. All right, I’m gonna try it awesome. And another another set of tools that people can use. And this is going back to the breath. So many of us in the nonprofit world we sit all day long. Or maybe we’re standing outstanding debts, and if you are, that’s a That’s a beautiful thing. But you’re in front of that screen, whether it’s your your your laptop, your phone or your watch. What I suggested to folks yesterday in the sessions that you use either the phone ringing the email that’s requiring your attention, whatever the next assignment is in the next to do list. Item two. Step away. Take a break. Before you engage into that, you can either use your breath by just simply doing and out in and out before and you can always get up and go to the bathroom. Who’s going to stop you? That was one thing. If you’re in a meeting and things are getting whatever way that they are, you can get up and move and go to the bathroom and re align yourself. Take some breaths in the bathroom. I’m I’m famous for going to the last stall and breathing. Maybe doing some stretching some office yoga. I mean, I work it out. The bathroom is is my escape. Okay, I would extend that. So one of the tips that I give two folks for, you know, if the turning off the notifications turning off the badge. If you like this just a bridge too far for you. I offer people this mantra. I would say to you, you should try it. It’s not a bridge too far, but But if if you’re in that situation, is the mantra called eat poop? Sleep. So again, the mantra is called Eat poop sleep, and the idea is that way. All have to eat way. All the poop way will have to sleep, and those are opportunities where we can put away the tablet, you can put away the phone. So for 30 minutes while you’re eating, you know you can be by yourself or be actually engaged with someone else and conversation while you’re pooping on the toilet, your phone can not be with you. And hopefully, while you’re sleeping, you’re not also texting and trying to read CNN at the same time, right? Hopefully you can turn that off and maybe buy a real alarm clock and charger device in a different room. So though, if you’re looking for a place to start and you feel like all the other things that I shared and all these other people are sharing tips and hacks, quote unquote aren’t doable for you poop sleep. I have an example of that. It wasn’t pooping but was being I was in the men’s room yesterday. It was in the men’s room and two different guys came in. They were holding themselves with their right hand, and they were holding the phone with their left standing at the urinal. Yeah, I couldn’t believe two different guys sequentially. They didn’t see each other, but I saw both of them. Can I take a lot of time when I washed my hands. Uh, so I was in the hand washing section. But these guys were watching their phones while they were peeing in the urinal. I couldn’t believe it. So please, you should be able to do more than eat poop sleep. I understand they’re people who can’t sew your starting point, set a low bar, wait to start my way. Yes, I think we all should. Wear should be able to go further than that. Alright. Way. Still have some more time in a couple more minutes? Ananda, you have you have another? Yeah, you do value. So you know, we we sometimes find ourselves so stressed out that we eat in front of our devices and one of the things that this is years ago, a colleague suggested to me, Just move. Remove yourself from the desk. Don’t eat in your in the work area. Go someplace else. There’s there are other places to go, or if that’s what you’re finding yourself doing and you don’t have any other place to go, then each your food and go walk, Go duitz. Move your body. It’s like the mind needs to see something different. Just changed the geographic oppcoll area. We went to dinner last night. I think we were talking. It was either during dinner, one of one of our social outings during during the conference, and Miko was talking to someone About what? This is such a great food city. You shot out the restaurant? Oh, yes. Blossom. What is it? Blossoming lotus. Blossoming lotus. Awesome food. We love you. The carrot. Chinese, Japanese. It was vegan. Vegan? Yeah, they had some great carrot ginger soup. Oh, my gosh. The collie flower was amazing. I have Bob. Yeah, Yeah, they had a great smoothies. Great t everything. Oh, yes, that took me to a whole Another place. So yeah, You see how food can just transform you? You wantto make sure that when you’re eating that you’re enjoying the meal. So mindful eating is like taking the bite’s slowly chewing, just savoring the tastes, lowly doing and not trying to do anything else. Just enjoying the meal, even taking a walk and picking up your feet and putting them back down. That’s mindful. Walking. You can google it if you want to know more about it. Good. The process of just bringing some presents to your activity other than the work space. Just moving yourself in that space of Yeah, I’m here. Maybe it’s just Maybe you just need to stand outside. I know sometimes for me it’s cold and D C and just going to the corner and coming back and at the corner of CVS. But I just need thio, move my body and stand outside, and I’ll just bring you in and out, just changing, changing your geographical location. But the story I was telling with Miko was that someone talked about how they work from home and that they’re really in this open space. And so they’re sleeping and they’re working in the same space, putting a sheet over their work area so that that allows you to say, I’m done and that’s the end of the day and it’s done. It’s like covering it up or closing a door, doing something that separates the space Home office. Yes, yes, cleaning off your desk, you have something that I do religiously cleaning off your desk. Yeah, there’s a there’s a science behind them, so when you’re one of the challenges with eating at your desk, is not that just that you’re eating at your desk, you’re not getting away from it, is your brain doesn’t actually shut off. So you’re because their brain is associating you sitting at your desk and you sitting in front of your screen. Is you still working? So even though you’re eating it, maybe you’re not actively working. Your brain is still in work mode so that the physical act of closing the lid cleaning after dafs covering it up, I’m moving to like a different physical space signals to your brain. Okay, we’re going into a restaurant or eating in that dance. Yeah, Okay. We’re going to rescue to recovery move. Okay, We’re gonna leave it there. OK? Was excellent. Thank you. Thank you for this back and forth. Thank you. My pleasure. They are. They are Ananda Leak, chief mindfulness officer at Ananda Leak Consulting and Miko Whitlock, Speaker and trainer. Mindful Techie, you are with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 ntc 19 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at act Blue Free fund-raising tools for non-profits to make an impact. Thanks for being with us next week. Unconscious bias and your normal is my trigger. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers Regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy Text. NPR to 444999 A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Family. Boyce is the line producer. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scots. Dina Brooklyn, New York Thank you, Scotty. Here with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in some type of potentially ater Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time And listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Thie Best designs for your Life Start at home. I’m David here. Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern Time As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us. Right here on talk radio dot N y c napor, you’re listening to talking on their network at www dot talking all calm now broadcasting 24 hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? 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Nonprofit Radio for May 24, 2019: Small Dollar Donor Power & Donor Retention

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My Guests:

Sara Kerrigan of ActBlue and Carrie Mann of Friends of the Earth

Sara Kerrigan & Carrie Mann: Small Dollar Donor Power
Small dollar donors are shifting the digital fundraising landscape. Our panel reveals basic principles of running a sustainable program online. They’re Sara Kerrigan from ActBlue and Carrie Mann with Friends of the Earth. (Recorded at 19NTC)





Laura Cole and Paul Habig of Sanky Communications

Laura Cole & Paul Habig: Donor Retention
Now that you’ve got new donors, learn how to keep them with you: Avoid retention pitfalls, leverage technology and track the right metrics. Our teachers are Laura Cole and Paul Habig, both from Sanky Communications. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with Skip Tosa Maya sis, if I got infected with the idea that you missed today’s show Small dollar donor power Small dollar donors are shifting the digital fund-raising landscape. Our panel reveals basic principles of running a sustainable program online. They’re Sara Carrigan from Act Blue and Carry man with Friends of the Earth that was recorded at 19 and TC. And don’t a retention now that you’ve got new donors, learn how to keep them with you. Avoid retention pitfalls, leverage technology and track the right metrics Our teachers, our Laura Cole and Paul Hey Big, both from Sang Ki communications that’s also recorded in 1990 si on Tony’s Take two. Be a good American. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text NPR to 444999 Here is small dollar donor power. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 ntcdinosaur. What that is it’s a 19 2019 non-profit technology conference. You know that we’re in Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me. Now are Sarah Kerrigan seated next to me? Email Director Attack blew and carry man, Deputy Director of digital membership and advocacy at Friends of the Earth. Carry Sarah. Welcome. Thanks. Carrots are looked upon with Welcome. Welcome. Both of you. Welcome the non-profit radio. Okay. Your topic is the largest group of untapped charitable givers. Small dollar donors. Um, Sarah, what do you feel like? Non-profits don’t fully appreciate about small dollar donors. Why do we need this session? Yeah, well, I think it’s really important. I would actually say that non-profit They actually do really appreciate small dollar donors that I’ve that I’ve seen on. Really? The our goal of the presentation was just doing power non-profits to take the case to their boards or their directors and say like, Hey, this is actually like a really good use of fund-raising on. And it’s also a really good way to engage people move their mission forward. Sometimes it just takes somebody to really, like, dive deep into email on to dive deep into those fund-raising strategies for people to feel empowered to take that business case, you know, straight to their organizations. Okay, carrot. So I assume you’re working with ActBlue. Yes, we are. OK. Were you the person that Sarah just referring to? I went to your leadership and said, this is worth investing in. That was before my time. But it’s carried on. Yeah. OK, so so glad that your predecessor did that. All right, All right, So where’s the best place to start? Well, uh, if we’re if we don’t feel we are capturing all our potential in small dollar donors, where What’s the first thing that we need to have in place before we can be effective with the campaign? Yeah, that’s a really good question. Eso actually email is the driver of the vast driver of all contributions. So, really, all you need is an email program, andan email list and just a message, and you can easily write your own emails and send it out to your audience. Of course, you can use an act, Liu wink if you so choose, Um, but, yeah, it’s really, really easy to tap into small dollar donors. Really, all you need is an email address and names, and then you can go ahead and get started. Okay, you don’t have to screen for who the best the best prospects are. Well, now, I mean, there’s also there’s other different acquisition strategies that you can absolutely use. But if you’re just starting from ground zero like really, all you need is an email list, a new email address, and you can get started with your own fund-raising. Okay, Alright, Carrie, how how successful has been at Friends of the Earth? It’s been huge for our programas a hole. When I first started in front of the Earth, we had about 225 2 150,000 people on their email lists, and it was raising a pretty negligible portion of our budget. Now we have about one point 8,000,000 people on our list, and it’s raising over two and 1/2 $1,000,000 a year. All right, all right. That’s, uh, explosive. How do we define what does? Does the definition of small dollar donation Barry from organization, organization or you feel like it’s all pretty consistent, Like we’re talking like 15 $2025? Is that Is that what friends of the Earth that you define small dollar when you have these conversations? Yeah, I mean, really, we aren’t going to turn down $1,000 contribution if somebody wants to do that online. But for the most part, we’re seeing people giving and more of that $1,000 30 to $50 range online on DH. Just giving, sometimes more than once a year, three or four times a year. And yeah, that lower dollar level. Okay, All right. So, Sarah, I have I have small dollar on my T shirt. How does ActBlue define what’s on my T shirt? Yeah, sure. So a small dollar donorsearch buddy who makes a contribution of 250 or less? That’s pretty much the standard that we use, but basically the whole goal about engaging small dollar donors that that goes beyond raising money. I mean, these are people who are marching their protest ng they’re volunteering, and they’re really pushing. Non-profits causes forward and That’s really the message that we want to drive home, that it’s just like it’s not just about like fund-raising. It really is about building of movement, a powerful movement of people on DH. Usually that massive movement of people that we see are small dollar donors because they’re the most engaged. Okay, Okay, um, you’re in your session. You talk about some basics principles of running a sustainable small dollar program. So let’s start with uses were way. Stay with you. I should say, uh, what, you got to start with some basic principles. Yeah, sure, I’m the number one thing. Is this treating your supporters with respect? I mean, we live in a world right now where there’s just so much content, like were saturated with content, especially is Carrie and I are both email professionals. It’s just so important to really look at your email program and say, like, you know, we really should choose a tree. Donors with respect there’s a lot of email programs out there that kind of focus solely on fund-raising and bottom line in our in our position is we really need to build like a sustainable program again, where we just create content where people feel like you know, they want to be on the email list and they want to donate and they want to give and they want to get their time, money and energy towards the mission. How do we show that respect? Well, there’s lots of different ways Way don’t hold off on Don’t hold back on non-profit radio listeners. Yeah, How do we How do we show it took off a couple ways? Sure, eso being honest with people about why you’re asking him to give money is very important. I’ll use an example about recurring donations. Something that we have found really successful is when we just asked people like, Hey, like, can you give a monthly $3 donation to support our cause? A lot of people shy away from that because like, Oh, my gosh, I’m asking somebody to give 35 $10 a month. That seems like a pretty big ask, but really, just being honest and upfront about what you’re doing and why it’s important is super important. Also, being timely, being like relevant to the moment is super important, like people want to be engaged on. People really want Teo hear from your organization, right when the moment happens, thinking about like family separation of the border. They’re just so many people who wanted to be involved and so having a way to talk directly to supporters. Eyes really important. So I was a honest, timely And of course you need to add value, Tio. I mean your email program. It’s definitely a two way street, right? We’re not just sending mathos ostomel just of fund-raising really has to add value to the support of this border has to feel engaged into your mission on DH. That’s another great way that email like, serves that purpose. What is what is friends of the Earth do carry to show this respect that Sarah’s talking about? Yeah, So if you think about what motivates a small dollar donor to give, it’s not necessarily because they care about the specific organization. They’re really trying to advance their values through through there giving, and that’s the way they see themselves as being able to make change in the world. So as we’re fund-raising from our small dollar donors, we want to give them the credit for the work the organization can do. Those aren’t our victories. There actually are donors victories when we win a campaign, it’s because people gave us $5 out of their Social Security checks, and they deserve the credit for that. Like that’s not ours. So how do you share that specifically What? How does friends of the Earth share that? Sure that impact. Yeah. We always use a lot of you language in all of our messaging. So we never say Friends of the Earth And this we say you did this. We want to make sure the word you appears in almost every paragraph in an email whenever we possibly Can you say if you save this or you change the law? Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Okay. It’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of first Impressions. How to combine strategy analytics and Creative two captive to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition. It’s still up on the listener landing page. How do you make that smashing? First impression donor-centric keep them. This is how you keep them coming to you. It’s at Tony dahna. I’m a slash pursuant with a capital P make the capital P for pursuing this week. Now back to small dollar donor power. Like, how often do you communicate with you? Share the impact with somebody who’s let’s say, has gives three times a year is only at those three times, not it all way. Always want to be intertwining sametz impact messaging in every communication that we send for friends of the earth. That’s about an e mail a day for most people. So every single day, just reinforcing that narrative of like you can change laws, you can change policies you’re empowered to do. These things, whether you’re giving, are signing a petition or making a phone call to your decision maker. It’s all part of the same set of impact methods. So, like, it doesn’t really matter what way they’re engaging with us. We always want to be rewarding the impact that they’re having. Okay, so someone makes thes donations typically online. I’m assuming we’re talking about small dollar because they’re coming from e mails. All right, so they get an immediate getting immediate acknowledgement. Thank you. Absolutely. Okay. And then what would be the next? Uh, suppose it was a $25 gift. They get immediate. Thank you. When’s the next time would be the next day? You said. You said everyday. Is there any Is there any suspension of suspension of mailing for a couple days to give the person a break or they hear from you is like Day two. They’re going to get going, get some impact message. They could get something to hours later. Even if something happens out in the world and we need Teo, go to them and ask them to respond again. Like, for example, if somebody gives to help stop drilling in the Arctic. And then two hours later, Trump releases his next Arctic drilling plan. We’re not going to hold back that information from our supporters were going to share that with them, even if they just donated and ask them two hours earlier that gave $25 you’ll ask him to give again. We may not ask them to give again, but we would ask them to take action in some way, maybe to volunteer, get old solution way call legislator or something that Okay. Uh, all right. How about, uh, another? Well, honesty. You said honesty. I mean, they got don’t do flush out honestly do we mean? I think is pretty well understood. No, don’t lie to your supporters. Don’t like their potential. Supporters don’t like anyone. I think that’s just I don’t think that’s going further with that another we got lots of We got lots of time together. So still talking about basic principles of, ah, successful campaign, you want to stick with you, Go ahead. Yeah. So I think you touched on a little bit, Sarah, but with urgency and just making sure that when you’re asking people to give its relevant in that moment and you’re convincing them that by giving it will have an immediate impact. Still like, for example, if a bill is moving through the legislature right now like that’s why your contribution matters today, not tomorrow, not two weeks from now. And just constantly reinforcing that like this is the moment to engage. And if you want to have the maximum impact, now is the time. OK, Sarah. Another another principle. Yeah, sure. And she touched on and carry touched on this before. Teo, we really want to focus on building what I call horizontal relationships with our supporters. A lot of times non-profits and organizations across the board say, you know, we have this solution chip in if you want. Like we have this very big idea. We we’ve got it cover, but, you know, chip in to help us. But what we want to do is kind of take that messaging and move away from it. So it’s actually really saying to supporters like Hear that Here’s this issue. Let’s fight on it together. We cannot do it around about you helping us do it right, right, right. And it’s very, very easy on an email marketing to literally put help us in every single email. Ask. Well, Windows won’t eliminate the help us, and we actually really want to bring the supporter in. And I was telling folks during our presentation, There’s a study in the UK about horizontal relationships in sustainable giving, and people who are asked by their peers are actually twice as likely to give, which is really, really incredible on DH. That’s just something that we really want people to focus on for writing emails that sound like they’re coming from your parents. We like a vertical relationship. You probably want to stay away from that. You probably want to make sure that it’s really coming from like a respected here peer-to-peer peer-to-peer rancor. And that’s where that is from. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Um, why don’t we just keep taking off principles of success? I mean, I imagine that was a lot of your was a lot of yourself. Have you done your session yet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You’re on the downside then. Okay. I’m assuming a lot of your session was best practices. Basic principles. Yeah. Success in this thing? Yes. In this small dollar campaign. Give us another one. E. I mean, there’s there’s just so many. Another thing Teo is just having, like, a really, really clear email copy and just making it very simple for people to understand. Does that include short? Well, it depends. And email. We always say it defends. You should always, like test, but basically making sure that people the average like person spends 11.6 seconds reading your email, which is actually pretty long compared tto in the past. But it’s still 11.6 seconds. So just making sure that your email copy is super super clear. Your asks. They’re super clear. Your supporter is not left wondering what they khun D’oh! In that moment to drive the whole mission on the whole organization Forward. I mean, a lot of times I’ll see an e mail that has text, uh, wrapped around on action box in the in the upper right tech starts on the left. But if you want to cut right to the chase, there’s the language of the petition that we’re asking you to sign, Right? Just click there. You have to read the text explanation If you don’t want to. Yeah, yeah, and that’s accessible to everybody. Right? Like some readers like like to just immediately go on Like say, Okay, I know what I want to dio that. And then some people really like just like taking their time and background. Some people really feel down Notes of five foot note down the bottom, right, right. And being open to all levels of like readership is really important to we talked about in our training the power using inclusive language and making sure that your email copy is accessible, accessible to everyone, which is also I think that is very important in the state. How do you How do you ensure accessibility it was a couple of different ways to do that. Carrie actually mentioned a really good point with her email program, which I’ll let her talk more about. But usually people are 65 and over on email lists. So, Carrie, I’m going to kick it off to you to talk specifically about how you made it more accessible on your list. Yeah. So one of the things that we experimented with this font size. You know, a lot of people think that if you’re reading something on a mobile device, you want it to be clearly fitting the screen. But we actually found that for our older audiences, we needed 18 point fun on Mobile, which, if you think about what that looks like kind of computer, it’s huge on your phone. That’s like three lines can fit in the screen. But we tested it, and it just universally work better. Okay, Okay. How about what else do you test? What does the mother’s subject line, who signs we test took off? Well, name some names of other things besides everything. So, in one email, for example, if we’re sending a fund-raising message, we might test the subject line we might test the content. We might test the language on the donation page both in the headline of the donation page and on the body of the donation page. And we might test the ask amounts all in the same all at the same time. And so we really want to test every single piece of the experience all the time. Those of the results that were going to get back in a matter of minutes. We also might be doing some kind of long term testing. Like, for example, what happens if we segment based on highest previous gift? We might need to test that for six months to really understand the impact that’ll have. So while we’re doing all of this testing in the moment, we’re also have this backdrop of the long term testing that we’re running behind the scenes. Did you say you have one point 8,000,000 was 1.31 point. Okay, so you have the luxury of having a large, large numbers that you can test with. So I suppose a list supposed listens only 10,000. Can you still do? Abie testing with 10,000 persons list? Yeah. What? I’d like to tell people is don’t worry about getting sister’s school significance or being like a data purest. It’s fine. The goal, really for, like, email eyes just to improve your email content so that you can raise more money. That’s really all it takes. I mean, you, Khun segment off a 10,000 list into, like to, what? 2,000 list for subject lines and just see if there’s a bumper. Not really. Doesn’t have to be that complicated. And again, like our goal. For me, for AC Blue and for Carrie is like to make in this presentation is really It’s like, take, like the fear out of email and actually make it to listen right? Exactly. That’s what I should have said. The whole university invention non-profit treyz right there. There you go ahead. I cut you off. No, it’s okay. I know, but really it’s like take the fear out of e mail on DH to take the fear out of fund-raising. This is something that anyone could. D’oh! Yeah, Okay, Okay, That would be a good rap up play point, but we have another 10 minutes left. Ok? Because this is 1/2 hour segment Yeah, so I’m not letting you off the hook, so that would be good. Rap will come back to you later, okay? In about 10 minutes. So let’s keep talking about I don’t know testing. Is there anything more we can say about testing? Either of you carry Sara about anything more you want to add about testing? I think the big thing is look for the stuff that’s going to have the greatest impact. So you know, you might test two versions of your content, but if it’s only one line difference, then you’re probably going to see a really small change. As a result of that is opposed to completely rewriting the E mail, you’ll probably see a much bigger change. And it’s not really that much more investment of time to create the much more different version and the results that you get well, just be that much more valuable. So we really look for the places that we can make those radical improvements or something we’ll just radically fail. But then at least we know, you know, rather than constantly testing around the margins. Okay, Okay. Test for significance. What have you found about who signs an email. You have signers to your email? Yeah. Now, of course, this is unique. Understands unique Teo, Friends of the earth. Thes result. Your your results may vary, but what has friends of yours found for us? Who signs What? Successful? Yeah. So we test it in two places. One is the sender, and one is who actually has their name at the bottom of the text. We have found that it makes osili no difference whose name is at the bottom of the texts. But the sender could make a really huge difference for us. The organisation’s name is usually the winner. So coming from friends of the Earth beats coming from our president’s name. But the thing that actually wins the most is just like a totally random like climate alert or be action. Something that is about the issue rather than about the organization or an individual. And that’s as a sender. Yes. Oh, interesting. Okay. Okay. Um Okay, so we’ve exhausted testing. We feel like you said everything. It was there more. Anything more. You want to know about testing, testing principles? Yeah, I think it’s just important for all testing. It’s really like optimizing your content ofthe devising your ask amounts, and it’s just a continual thing. Having one test for email is probably a good place to start and again, Really, anybody could do this. Yeah, okay, okay, Let’s continue with our basic principles. That good. Keep going, Sarah. Cool. Another basic principle. Trying to think. I mean, there’s just there’s just so many We went through so many again trying to think, Let’s get carried. You got one. You got one in mind in your mind, I think, like relevance is super important. Like, what do your supporters actually care about? It’s probably not the same thing that your organization’s leadership or even your organization staff really care about. So try to think about it from your supporters perspective. Like, what is it that makes them get excited about in our example? Environmental protection like water, the things that are their core values And how do you speak to those things like it’s probably not the amendment to the budget bill that’s passing through the house tonight. You know, that’s probably not thinking about Okay, right? How do you find that out? How do you know what your supporters were interested in? So I think some of it comes from just listening to the different staff of the organization who interact with supporters. If you have people who work in the community like if your service organization than get their stories go out on a site, visit with them for us. We always talk to our donorsearch Mrs Staff, who answered the phone from donor-centric leave the major donor calls, but the it’s all dollar donors who might give through direct mail or other channels who actually called the office to give us feedback that Khun just give a really interesting perspective on how people are interacting with us and then even things like social media or people who hit Reply on your mass e mail. You know it’s not data driven, but it can kind of guide some of your thinking and get you out of the bubble. So these air folks who call probably to complain about something sometimes I’m guessing most of the time, most of time, right. But you’re able to turn that call around first by satisfying hearing the principles we talk, you know, validating their concern, apologizing, fixing it on. Then you can get information from them about what it is that motivates them around. Friends of the Earth work? Absolutely. Yeah. So staff is all trained to do that. It doesn’t just happen. Doesn’t just happen. Staff is intentionally trained, you know, Let’s get some information while we’ve got these people on the phone and they’re feeling good, um, you’re familiar with the service recovery paradox. I’m not? No. Okay, that’s that because we’re talking about people calling and complaining. Ah, a person will be a person will be mohr committed to a brand. If there’s been a problem and it got solved, then if there was never a problem because they got the opportunity to be heard they had the opportunity to interact with staff on the problem. Presumably get solved. So they’ll be they’ll be more committed than the person who never has a problem, right? I think that that’s why it’s paradox Interesting. Okay, um, more principles. Sarah passed last time. So no person are you, Carrie, You give another one. Since we’re with you, then we’ll come back. So I’m never going back. But she passed up returns. Think if you’re talking about small donor fund-raising, you always want to make sure that you’re giving people the right ascot the right time. So if someone’s capable of giving $30 don’t ask him for five. If someone’s capable of giving $5 don’t ask them for 250. You know, all of our son isms have data, or you, Khun do some analytics to find out what each individual donors has previous gift is or if they’ve never given before you contest into what makes the most sense. But you want to be talking to people and meet somewhere there at rather than trying to, like a massively over sell them in a way that isn’t accessible. Okay, Okay. Before I ask you for principal, I’m gonna ask you, Sarah, how does one become a email? Your director of director of email? Yeah. That’s not a That’s not a major. No, no, we don’t go to college for that. How do you do? You work your way into that? Yeah, sure. So I graduated college and I it worked as a field organizer for then Senate Senator Kay Hagan. So I really liked what state? The state of North Carolina. OK, Yeah. I’m sorry. I should know that I should I own two homes in North Carolina. Really? Pinehurst and Emerald Isle. Okay, but I’m not from there. Yeah, I didn’t know. Okay, Don’t. Yeah. Now it’s now it’s ber until us all right now the current. Yeah, we lost another current guys. Yeah, but I didn’t know. Okay? Yeah. Eso graduated field organizer. I love talking to people, but I didn’t think that knocking on doors was going to be my life’s calling And my life’s work. Eso ended up getting into digital fund-raising Just because I was just you could talk to people at a massive scale which is really empowering and very cool Uses both sides of your brains. You could be like creative. But of course, we’ve talked a lot about testing on this times. You kind of have a science to it. Also right. Eso I’ve spent like 4 to 5 years and political fund-raising, so I work for the DSCC. I work for Revolution Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. Okay. Yeah. I worked for a revolution messaging a za consultant there, and I was formally the deputy email director at the Democratic National Committee, the DNC, where we had a multi $1,000,000 programme and I’m up at blue. So I’ve been very fortunate to have really great, like female mentors on work on female teams. And so I credit them a lot. Teo, you know where I’m at today on DH. There is a lot of space for women to be an email. There’s a lot of space for young people to be an email on DH. There’s a lot of space for people who haven’t really been involved in email. Toe start. I was with a panel yesterday, which was called I don’t have you know, I left him back in the hotel yesterday’s notes, but was called grit. Female was basically female technologists go that you’re nodding. I didn’t It’s okay, but it was great how to be a successful female in technology. That right? Very good, Carrie, how’d you work your way into being an email scientist? Yes. So I started answering. Our phone line for donorsearch vis is which is why I feel so strongly about your whole career’s friends of the earth. Yet so far on. And basically I discovered that I really wanted to have an impact on the issue that issues I cared about. But I didn’t really want to be dressing up in a suit and going in meeting with a lot of people on the hill. I really wanted to be, you know, out in the field, talking Teo really human beings. And email was just the right mix of those things where I could ask people for money to help further the mission. Or I could give people the tools to lobby their own. Elected officials are whatever the action mechanism was, it was all in my fingertips, and I never have to put on the suit, so that looks okay, doesn’t it? Okay, so we’re back to you practice. Best practice. Did you think of one since the last time? Yeah, I think so. Back to what Carrie was saying about multi-channel about talking to other people within the organization. I think that that is really, really important. Usually when I started a new organization, or like every three months, I’ll talk Teo, just different folks just to get some authenticity and authentic voice. I mean, people are craving authenticity and email, so that’s a really good way to do it. Another thing. That and another question that I got during the panel was direct mail and email. And how do those two things relate? And can they co exist? My personal opinion is yes, they absolutely can. You can use direct mail pieces and email vice versa. You, Khun, send email to to direct mail folks too for a multi touch, eh? So that’s another thing, too, that I think non-profits Khun really explore its really not one or the other. You can have both had someone on the panel yesterday who said that their donors loved getting. They thanked them for direct mail letters that say thank you for an email gift for non line gift. Yeah, yeah, it’s a really good way to keep your sustainers like, really happy. And that’s like your big donor based. Okay, how often would you thank sustainers as often as I can after every gift every month? Well, usually you could do in personal personalization so you can say, like, Hey, you’ve made, like, a $3 monthly donation and literally you just put Inem dash and say thank you. It’s it could be that simple, or it can be like so extreme that you write like a hand written thank you know and send it in the mail. So it just depends on what your capacity is. But just giving, you know, those donors a sense of like appreciation is super important you want. Do you want to touch them at every at every monthly donation, one way or the other? Yeah, well, I’m That’s my personal belief. I think people like they pretty much know that they’re doing a monthly donation and actually reminding people that they gave him a plea donation for us. Like I haven’t seen any dropoff whatsoever. I know a lot of people are like aholic. I’m nervous about reminding people that they have a monthly donation, but I think for us, it’s like part of a gang. Like the honesty authenticity on being up front with people in where they stand. I’ve heard it both ways. I’ve heard. Set it and forget it. Don’t remind them. But then you risk when the court expires or it gets compromised. They decide they have had enough, and I don’t really hear from them very often. But there’s two sides to that argument, right? Okay. What? Carrie, I’m gonna let you wrap it up. We got just like, 30 seconds or so left. Give us a motivation about small dollar donation campaigns. Yeah, I mean, I think for friends of the Earth, it’s really been a a game changer for us. You know, every dollar you raise online has the potential to be unrestricted. So it means that you can run the programs that you want to run as an organization without being required to do what a major donor wants you to do or what a foundation wants you to do. You could be much more flexible, and you’re empowering human beings in the real world to be a part of your cause and advanced the mission that you care about. And there’s just no better way to do that than building those relationships online. Where people, you know in the 21st century, that’s where they’re at. So we meet them where they’re also thank you. That was That was Cary Man. She’s deputy director of digital membership and advocacy at Friends of the Earth and also Sarah Kerrigan, email director. Attack Blue. Thank you Each very much. Thanks. Much pleasure. Thank you. And thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC all of our 19 1990 seon reviews are brought to you as from our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising tools that help non-profits Macon Impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re accountants, for God’s sake. Okay, you know you know what they do. Do you need one? Do you need help with your form? 9 90 is the time to change ordered firms. Perhaps they’ve got a deep rich practice for non-profits and they’re growing it. You could be a part of that. You know a partner. You know, one of the insiders Yet which tomb? He’s been on the show. Check him out. Give him, then give you a ring. Get started at wagner cpas dot com. Now time for Tony’s take two. My video is two ways to be a good American Abroad. I was in Paris for two weeks and while in Brussels, Belgium. Short hour and 1/2 train ride away. Ah, I witnessed some some bad behavior. Bad Americans abroad. There were two things that particular relating Teo language and currency and those air. But those are the two subjects. But how can you do them better than these ugly Americans that I witnessed in Brussels. That’s what the video is about. Now, I had said that earlier that my video was going to be a tour in L C C A launch control center from when I was in the Air Force. But I put this one up instead. The launch control center one is coming. I’m not cheating you out of the tour of the LCC, but right now check out two ways to be a good American abroad. You know where the video is? It’s at tony martignetti dot com. So now that you’ve got new donors, how do you keep them? Here is donor retention. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 si. You know what that is? It’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center and this interview, Like all our 19 ntcdinosaur views brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact, I guess now are Laura Cole and Cole. Hey, Big Laura is director of account Services at Sancti Communications. Paul is president of Sank a communications Welcome. Welcome, Laura. Welcome poem Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Pleasure. You’re seminar topic is finders keepers the art of donor of retention? I don’t know how many guests have been on non-profit radio telling us that the cost of retaining a donor is so much less than the cost of acquiring a new donor. More. Let’s start with you. What are what are non-profits Just not getting them. This is not just within the past six months. For years we’ve been talking about donorsearch tension problems. Retention rate is so low, I don’t know what the most current is, but it’s it’s it’s sad, Whatever it is, what are we not getting right? And you’re welcome to give the most recent stat if you I’m sure you know it. So I think it’s a great point and I think one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about it today and in our session. We really focused on it too. Is that this? This December was definitely a challenge for a lot of non-profits, and it was particularly a challenge for getting new donors in the door. And that means that retention becomes that much more important and to your point. Retention doesn’t happen. You really have to tow work and focus on your communications to make sure that you’re building that relationship because it’s donors are going to give. But you have to take that is the first step of the relationship and really work on cultivating them so that they’re going to become lifelong donors. Paul, Why we’ve been talking about this for so long. Why are non-profits not getting the message that Laura just redid? Rated for the 1,000,000 times? You know, I ended the session off with the audience and said to them, You’ve already done. You’ve really done your session this on the down side already on our way to end it all by saying, Don’t be impatient, Don’t dahna Retention takes time. It takes time to improve it. So we did a case study with the African Wildlife Foundation, and we’ve been working with them for like seven years, and we were able to get there Don’t retention right now. Currently in two thousand eight from 2,018 upto almost 70% prior. You’re donors to give again in the second year, and it took years of planning and communicating and it really is the foundation of what we discussed. And what we believe in is that you really need to build the foundation with technology, good technology from the start. And so this organisation, we went through a really important and arduous database and technology conversion for them almost three years ago, three years ago. I think he was closer to 55 years ago, and so we were able to actually put all the pieces that you need to make this a mohr automated process to really focus on things which allowed the organization and us and freed us up to be more creative with how he spoke to donors. The campaigns that we produced for the organization and really give them an engaging donor experience throughout the 12 month period that we benchmarked this morning. All right, so it’s a long term process you need to have. You need to have infrastructure in place before you can before you can hope to move the needle on potential. It is buy-in caps. Elated. This Yeah, I know. The idea is that one of the things we’ve mentioned at the end was you have to invest. Unfortunately, we’ll invest in the technology even before we even get into donorsearch tension versus new donorsearch attention. It is important because what happens is if you don’t have that infrastructure there. Misstep and interesting. It was the way originally were caught. We’re going to call the session howto lose a donor in 10 days kind of pop culture reference for a movie. But it really is true. Is that idea that in the first part of the relationship, if you have a misstep, you probably lose a donor for life if you, you know, code them differently if you personalize something and it’s the wrong information, if you don’t thank them in a timely manner. And there’s a lot of different things that go into that so really kind of making sure that infrastructure is up and running to make sure that you don’t have those early missteps so that you can create a lifelong donor-centric to get to some of the pitfalls you have in your your description talk about pitfalls that are causing dahna patrician. So why did you want Okay, well, naming the person incorrectly. Yeah, Personal personalization is one of our most powerful tools in marketing and fund-raising, but if you call Bob Barbara, you know, you kind of lose a donor for life for sure, making sure that you I already have in motion the idea that if someone comes on brand new, this is like a data problem that people do that you’re suppressing the people who are new versus old and actually figuring out who they are. So, for instance, I make a donation. A lot of signs, some systems is that you’ll go right into the next campaign stream. But I just made my first donation. So what we can certainly do with the technology for our clients is that will create an automated program that will actually capture that new donor-centric, possibly who hasn’t giving but maybe give their email address for the first time and put them on a separate track and making sure that at the same time they’re suppressed from any other campaigns. Generally, the can kapin would have some kind of fund-raising asked. So really kind of setting the stage of their relationship for the beginning and not forgetting that they just made a donation and really trying to the information that we provide in that Siri’s is meant to be engaging in the part where it actually educates them on the mission and deeper into the program versus you know, usually probably what we brought that original donor and is on some kind of urgency, you know, really quick and got emotional reaction. But at that point, then you have there you have their attention, and you have to use it wisely. Okay, and Laura suppress them For how long? So generally, what what will work with organizations to do is to build a really robust welcome Siri’s. And that usually is at least fortified emails that will go out over, say, 2 to 3 weeks. So making sure that they complete that cycle before they start to get the regular stream of communications. So they’re not kind of being dropped in in the middle of one campaign, or they’re not getting the welcome Siri’s and that campaign. But instead they’re really sort of sitting by themselves, getting this very targeted, very tailored Siri’s that’s going to introduce them to your mission to the organization, tell them what their their donation has done before you ask again. So it’s really making sure that those and and to go back to sort of the movie reference that we made its It is like a relationship, and if you make a mistake in the first date or the second date or the third date, you’re probably not going to turn into a long term relationship. But Teo ads that question about how long it does vary from organization to organization. What we discussed this morning would be the organization that we were case studying, which is the African Wildlife Foundation. They have a membership program. So the how long is a shorter period of time because of the membership program and a lower dollar average gift for them. Repetition in marketing fund-raising is key to their success. But some organizations we work with that might start off at a much higher average gift. That’s where you’d have to really kind of b’more conscientious on the frequency and how when that next asks, Come in. So that could be you know what with the organization with membership, you might be 2 to 3 week where you’re suppressing, but an organization that has a higher average gift donor-centric month or two before or really looking at they’re giving history, so it’s not a one size fits all. It really has to be customized to each organization and what their mission and what type of donors they do have. Oh, and and also targeted to the constituent. If you’re talking about a donor that’s giving a small gift, you’re you’re going to want to suppress him for a shorter period of time than someone that gave you $10,000. That person’s going to need a lot longer period of pure cultivation before you make that ask again. Okay, let’s let’s do some more pitfalls like these pitfalls to avoid attrition. Absolutely. Go ahead, I think. One of the big ones. And this is partly why digital retention tends to be lower than direct mail. Is not making sure that you’re updating donor email addresses, whether they tell you that they have a new email address. But even more proactively finding out what the what what? Maybe someone’s new email address is called in a way or email. Change of address process. Something like that where you’re you’re actively saying, let me make sure that I can keep emailing a donor because email addresses changed much more frequently than someone’s mailing address. People don’t generally move as much as they change their email address. Maybe they go to a new job. Maybe they switch from Yahoo Hotmail. So making sure that you can keep talking to them, because if you’re not going to talk to them, you can’t make that ask. You can’t cultivate and they’re not going to get there much less likely to give again if you kind of lose touch. I’m not even sure that non-profits know a lot of them know that there are services that will do it. The email change of address for you, Yeah way the Postal Service with, like, a a national change of address I have now on the way. I have, ah, have a little personal story, my dad’s name and my name or the same Anthony martignetti, but he uses A J. He’s Anthony Joseph. I have the same middle name, but I never used the J. There’s one indicator that we’re different. Also, his his current address is not my last address. I haven’t lived there since I was nine, eighteen 18 years old. I went to college. I moved. I moved from New York City to North Carolina. More than a dozen charities started emailing Anthony J. Martignetti to my North Carolina address Charities that my dad is a is an active donorsearch. For now, he’s a small level donor. Is he’s one of those guys who writes like 15 $2025 checks, and I mean literally he does dozens of these a month. He gives a lot at the end of the year, so they were. So they were aspiring to be proactive. But there were two flags that should have been raised that that I’m not the guy, that he’s not the guy who moved the middle initial and the last address. So that brings us to another pitfall. It’s one of the major pitfalls pitfalls. A lot of non-profits full into his data issues data. Bad data can really harm donorsearch tension. So in your case, these organizations are not actually there. There, there, there, there, looking up your information. It’s either it’s household or individual. And so you can. We’ve seen this happen for organizations where you’ll get a household match, and that’s what you’re what happened with name yes, but versus an individual, which is directly just you and that address. But it brings back the point, which I think we’ll go back to our topic on pit bulls data. It could be the right that for all non-profits not. And it’s the hardest part for an organization that really both invest the time and money and resource is. That’s usually people power to make sure that you have clean data for knowing when someone is active or made a gift recently, and then you ask them by actually ask him to renew when they just renewed a month ago. Or I mentioned the personalization piece or recognizing when someone is, ah, high dollar donor-centric. And that’s one of actually the things that you mentioned. Is it really important? Sustaining giving is one of the differential factors where online retention doesn’t actually start going up from offline retention if you’re really good at recruiting sustainers or monthly givers and then making an active effort. So part of the case study with you this morning was that we’ve been actively growing the sustainers file for this organization, and it right now they’re they’re about 25 plus percent that there digital giving is coming from sustainers e-giving, which each year helped their retention grow, and that’s why they’re close to 70% now on retention because of that. But when we treat sustainers, we always recognize that there are sustainers. So even though that you don’t want to stop communicating sustainers gonna wantto forget about the organization. But we segment and we recognize their contribution and we usually put them in a lot of the engagement campaigns and cultivation. The awesome part about sustainers is they’re so engaged with the organization what I always call the 13th gift. So that will be a monthly Don’t make 12. They’ll make that 13 because they’re so engaged. But you have to really treat them well and so generally will maybe get they’ll get a matching gift campaign, maybe year, and to say, Hey, we have this match going on. We know you’re a monthly supporter, but we just wanted to bring it to your attention. It’s all about the nuance messaging and really think about that. But it goes back to the data being clean and knowing who you’re speaking to, segmenting your audiences and really paying attention to that and bad data. Really, convict can really lead, Yeah, two mistakes like that. Now you know if if it wasn’t my dad I wouldn’t be. Wouldn’t wouldn’t have given them the second chance. I just tossed it or said, You know, take me off your list. Hence, how to lose a donor in 10 days Time for our last break Text to give. Get their five part email Many course to dispel the myths around mobile giving Donations do not have to go through the donors phone company. They don’t have to be small. There aren’t large startup costs. You don’t need to know a lot of technology. You can do this. You can do mobile giving. You get the five part email, many course and it’ll explain how to get started. Um, you get that by texting NPR to 444999 You’ve got butt loads. More time for donorsearch retention anymore. Pitfalls. I liked the men I like taking off these things, that organ ords maybe doing wrong. So so along the lines of what you brought up, I think one of the biggest pitfalls is not respecting when when donorsearch Hey, I don’t want to get mail or you have the wrong address. Please update it. Donors who bothered to reach out and tell you that are very loyal donors. If they’re proactively reaching out and saying, Please send, you know, to this new email or this new postal address or this is the wrong you know, middle initial or this is the wrong no last name. Anyone who reaches out with that cares a lot about the organization. And so it’s making sure that you’re respecting that and that there’s business rules and to Paul’s point, people in place to make those updates right, because the second time, the person when the first that’s right, second request. Then you’re done. This is your you’re hurting. So absolutely that dovetails into a point of really making sure the right hands talking to the left hand, where if you’re running a campaign that you have really good donorsearch vis reps who understand what’s going on with the fund-raising department and can actually feel those questions. So they got a matching gift request, for instance, knowing that when they answer the phone that they were talking about that a lot of time. Our donors donors will call for organization to say well, might give still be matched. I’m a little late, so having someone ready to know that. But at the same time, what we find the organizations have been most successful is when they have somebody on the phone who can really take a donor complaint and make them to a lifelong donors. And it’s just really preparing them and training them on DH, treating someone like a human being and understanding that even their $25 gift is just as important as the $1,000 gift when they when they take the energy to call the organization. And generally you can really kind of swing a donor to be really lifelong supporter as long as you have somebody on the lines and the phone. Many organizations forget about that, and you made a good point this morning, which I’ll let you make about even just the last week of the year. Well, it’s It’s remembering that some of the biggest giving days on the online side are not working days. It’s the end of the year. It’s Christmas, it’s New Year’s. It’s days when the office may be closed. But if no one’s answering the phones when you have donors trying to make a gift, you know if you get back to them in January. It’s too late, you know, a sort of mist that window. And so it’s thinking about customer service, especially on those key days when, even if you know, recognizing it’s a holiday. But it’s when people are giving and needing to be there for the donors. Do either of you know the There’s a paradox service like service repair paradox or something like that in customer service, where if you’ve made a mistake and corrected it as a as a company, you will. You will have a more loyal customer than if you hadn’t made the mistake in the first place. And that’s goes to what you were describing. Pull their end well and Laura, too, that that there’s someone there responsive that actually makes the change or correct the problem. They have to be empowered to correct the problem, and if they do, you’ll have a more loyal well, it feeds over in our in our circle. It does have a more loyal donor-centric to begin with, so we made a point this morning. Another don’t was when your when your service recovery, that’s what service recovery paradox. So we made a point talking about the fact that Okay, so you’re going to make mistakes sometimes. So just say, make sure your emails rendering correctly when someone views it makes sure when someone lands on a donation form, it’s working correctly. However, technology breaks down sometimes, regardless of how much you test how great you are at that. But what I talked to the audience about is as long as you’re both timely with your apology and also just things do happen. And, you know, one of the best examples would have been Steve Jobs. When the iPhone had the antenna issue, he pretty much changed the entire power paradigm for PR in the sense of how he handled that situation where they were. They were roasting Apple at that point, and he actually turned it around and it became the best selling high phone because the way he handled that, he took responsibility and they moved on. And I think the quote was, well, technology breaks down. Actually, all phones dropped calls, and it’s not just it’s not just the iPhone and that quickly the media shifted there, but the whole idea is being quick and nimble and being able to go back out So the non-profit has an issue with their donation form or something with their sight being quick and being able to be. You know, sometimes humor works in some ways and some organization, depending on your mission. But being direct on that and really kind of talking about it and getting out getting in front of it is so important. And again, then you know that that that experience level, we actually see that a lot of the times those correction emails do perform quite well, sometimes even better than the other emails in the Siri’s. When you go back and you’re just really human and honest about what happened and take responsibility exactly that za piece of what a piece of what you’re describing all right, and and to your point earlier about the small dollar donor to remember that for that donor, that’s that’s a big commitment they’ve made for you. It’s a it’s a small amount of money, but for them it’s a big commitment, and so treating them well regardless of the amount of money that they give. And that’s one thing that the digital space allows for is that high touch treatment allows for the personalization it allows for. The customization allows those donors to feel special regardless of how much they’ve given and in terms of numbers. Sometimes the small dollar donors that given year after year and say, Hey, I’ve moved, please update it. Those may be your best plan giving prospect so you can’t dismiss them even if they’re giving you a little amount, because for them, it’s a It’s a lot I do plan. Giving consulting now 1997 carrying on and the ultimate retention I’ve seen lots of seen lots of eyes algorithms, I guess, for you know, who makes a good plan giving prospect. I still think the best plan giving prospect is that person who’s given you 23 gifts in the past 25 years exactly on the most recent one was no more than, like, six months ago or something. Yeah, they are thinking about you every single every single year, and I don’t I really don’t care. Here’s $10 a year. In some cases, I think they’re testing you, but they’re probably testing you for 23 years. But but some of those initial small dollar gifts they may be testing you do I get a thank you is a timely yeah. Did they screw things up in the thank you, you know, etcetera. So I think there’s some of that. Some of the testing on the small dollar lord to your point about small dollar donations. But they are enormously good playing, giving prospects that kind of that kind of loyalty and longevity, even if even if small, small, double digit levels very good plan giving prospects here earlier point about because acquisition is so challenging. Some one plan gift from someone who made a gift for 20 years who can pay for an acquisition program for an entire organization meeting. You know, you you invest that money 20 years ago and then you’re banking on it later on where they’ve left this entire you know, there’s a part of their state to an organization, and so it’s important, actually tracked those folks right to find out what the origin of those folks who do come in because it’s generally as you just said, those low Doyle. The donor’s really do care about the organization. That’s why they stuck around for 23 years. It is important. Look, back-up e-giving history and try and ascertain from those patterns. Hoo hoo! Your other good prospects are. Yeah, and that’s one thing we spoke about at the session is, is the data side of it is is to really track retention and really leverage it. You have to have the data collection in place. You have to know who your donors are. You need ideas for them. So you contract. They’re giving year over year, but you also need to be able to identify where they came from in the first place. If you want to invest smart going forward, you have to know what your investments really yielded in the past. And so the cost of acquisition. What’s the source? The source, the source? And what did it cost exactly? And even if it was a long time ago, being able to know what that was is really valuable. That’s a great transition anymore, Waken say about technology. I mean, well, you both in it a lot. There’s no anymore more strategies around technology that he needs to be in place. So Paul touched on it, and I think it’s important is to recognize that your technology can can work for you or against you and recognizing where it it is working for you and maybe where it’s it’s presenting challenges and and maybe those air too much, and you’re really costing yourself on the retention side for not investing in technology. But it’s also recognizing that technology without the people to really leverage it isn’t going to get you very far that you need data people you need. You know, people who know how to use the technology and can really make it work for you. So I think it’s It’s technology, by itself is not powerful. It’s technology and people and subsided. And what you’re saying is you have to hire the expertise that you need. If it’s not a full time employee, you have to get a consultant freelancer. You can’t You can’t manage this and master it on your own on DH. That’s not your expertise anyway. You’re zan inefficient use of your own time or your organization’s time to try to master something that you don’t know you need to. You need to invest in the talent that you need because the organizations are good at their missions. You know, in many ways, right, it’s not really about marketing or technology or database management. I mean, it does. It does come to that. Sometimes you and I think also a point you made earlier that that I do think sometimes gets lost is that when when it comes to our attention, sometimes it’s it’s fancy technology and automation and behavioral driven content. And sometimes it’s the basics. It’s the acknowledgement. Did you send an acknowledgement? Did it talk about the impact that the gift had did it? You know, thank the donor an appropriate way. Was it sent out on time? So with all the bells and whistles that are out there in technology now, it’s important to not forget those fundamentals and to make sure that those air in place, regardless of whether you have a staff of 10 or one very well said you should be co presidents. Take note of that account services sounds sounds beneath her to mate. We’ve been working together for 10 years. It’s true. That’s good. Yeah, co President. Um, okay, let’s look metrics. You talk about metrics to measure churn and retention. Who wants to wants to kick off the metrics? We got like, four more minutes left together. So you want to start for so the biggest thing when it comes to metrics is, is having the data in place and knowing whether or not you even have the data to track it. And the key for retention is that you’re tracking donorsearch cohorts. So it’s not talking about the total number of gifts that’s talking about donors and specific groups of donor. So when you want to measure overall retention from one year to another, you need to know which donors gave in your one and which donors went onto given year, too. So so if you can actually identify that because you don’t have the ideas or you don’t have the data in biology infrastructure, just talking, you’re not going to get anywhere. And similarly, knowing someone who’s new versus who’s who’s renewed is quite important because going back to the point you made earlier about acquisition, the retention of a new donor right now hovers around 25%. And so really tension of a 1st 3rd 1st time, first time donors so well, so organized organization whose 75% of the people they broke time don’t Yeah, and so there is making sure you have the ability to track these things so that you actually then Khun, figure out you’re targeted strategies towards these groups, treating them separately in some ways and actually having creative and ideas and specific pieces that go to them so that you can retain those vote for people. We kind of haven’t touched upon it. But a lot of the strategies that we’ve been implementing with great success is trying tio convert a lot of those first time donors into sustainers, and that really has helped lift the program’s on the digital side and where digital retention for the overall programs have have been on the rise a little bit, and particularly with this organization that we case study today African Wildlife Foundation that was the sustainers program has been really one of the key to the success of really good online retention because we really quickly move folks from their first gift and have strategies to convert them to sustainers and then due to individual sustainers drives where it could be coupled with the match and really kind of back to really strong, evocative creative that goes back to for there in this mission is, you know, poaching of elephants and the crisis that’s going on there, but it works with other organizations to. And so the success of those programs and then having the data to make sure that you actually keep the retention of your sustainers is another really important factor because that there’s there’s low hanging fruit that that could be easily forgotten or missed by organizations on when credit cards expire and making sure that you really invest in that channel, you know, And it’s actually more channels that we’re discussing this morning. Not only sometimes email does not work to retain a sustainer, you actually need to use offline and send it direct mail piece or take it even further. And sometimes we’ll do telemarketing to see if we can get that boat that person back because their their lifetime value is greater than most other sources. Why do, uh, she would just have, like, 30 seconds? How come some How come sustainers stop sustaining? I think two reasons I think one is some sustainers don’t realize that they’ve became a sustainers so generally in the 1st 2 or three months on stage, it was a mistake, and that goes back to data making sure that when you when you confirm those sustainers that you actually tell them they’re sustainers. OK, there is like a threshold where they passed 13 and four, and then you got them. The other thing is credit cards. A little scripture expire expires. Or they or yeah, exactly. And they decide to have done it long enough because you kind of want sustainers toe almost go on autopilot and, you know, and then really, you still want to engage them, But you don’t need to constantly remind them that they’re making that gift. But you wanted still engage them on your mission. So those air to areas where I’d say that where you would lose sustainers. Okay, we’ve got to leave it there. That flu fantastic was awesome. All right? Yes, they’re both with. Thank you, Communications. Paul is the president, and Laura is soon to be co president, but currently director of account Services. This interview, like all the 1990 sea interviews brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits Macon impact. Thanks so much for being with non-profit radios. Coverage of 1990 si next week. Tech accessibility and culture of resilience. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital P by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers Regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to 444 999 are creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. The With Me Next week for non-profit radio. 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