Tag Archives: millennial giving

Nonprofit Radio for June 13, 2022: Appealing To Tomorrow’s Major Donors


Nejeed Kassam: Appealing To Tomorrow’s Major Donors

There’s $50 trillion set to change hands in North America by 2050, enriching today’s millennials and Generation Z. Let’s talk about cultivation and fundraising strategies to reach these generations. My guest is Nejeed Kassam from Keela. (This is part of our coverage of #22NTC, hosted by NTEN.)


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[00:01:40.64] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with blended vaginitis. If you inflamed me with the idea that you missed this week’s show appealing to tomorrow’s major donors, There’s $50 trillion North America by 2050 enriching today’s millennials and generation Z let’s talk about cultivation and fundraising strategies to reach these generations. My guest is Najid Kassem from kila. This is part of our coverage of the 2022 non profit technology conference hosted by N 10 On Tony’s take two. Trepidation about new york city, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o And by 4th dimension technologies I. T infra in a box. The affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Just like 3D but they go one dimension deeper here is appealing to tomorrow’s major donors. Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 22 N. T. C 2022 nonprofit technology conference hosted by N 10 with me now is Najid Qasem Ceo and founder of Kayla Najid, welcome back to nonprofit radio

[00:02:18.54] spk_1:
Thanks so much Tony and just for the folks that are listening because I might have a conflict I’m also on the board of directors at N10 and so really really proud to be part of the governance team at antenna and grateful to all of those of you who attended NTC this past, I guess almost a month ago now. Wonderful.

[00:02:31.14] spk_0:
Thank you for thank you for letting me know. We have Miko Whitlock and Jason shim. I have to see if they’re still on, but we’ve got, we’ve got Beth Kanter coming up. Um,

[00:02:32.86] spk_1:
I mean those are, those are my people, that’s my tribe. So you’ve got a great, great lineup coming up

[00:02:57.34] spk_0:
well. And you’re on the, you’re on the board of a terrific organization. Any sample ward is our technology and social media contributor. So she’s on many times a year sharing her wisdom on, on those subjects. We’re gonna talk about your seminar topic. Great transfer of wealth, how to reach the next generation.

[00:03:00.54] spk_1:

[00:03:07.04] spk_0:
And you say you’re in your description that there’s a $50 trillion dollar transfer coming. What’s, what’s on the horizon?

[00:04:22.34] spk_1:
Well, you know, I think a lot of the topic is just about the fact that boomers and those, the generation, the great generations as I like to call them, are starting to, to, to find peace and move on to whatever happens in the next stage of our lives and you know, as well as they pass our grand, my grandparents passed away. Um, the last couple of years and you see that generation, my parents are starting to get older and thinking about the next, you know, the next chapter of their lives and so for those of us that are gen, x, gen y and I guess gen z is now, um, you know, a lot of money ultimately is going to transfer between generations, the boomers and their parents Postwar really generated absurd amounts, like, like, you know, unthinkable amounts of wealth and, and that’s all transferring and there’s a bunch of really interesting factors that are, that are going to change how giving is done. What’s gonna happen to that? Just the demographic, you know, general demographics in the United States and so, you know, a lot of money is going to change hands and, and that’s going to have a profound impact on getting because for a whole host of reasons we’ll talk about today.

[00:04:25.00] spk_0:
Yeah, So you’re expecting that millennials are going to grow the

[00:04:28.50] spk_1:
wealth that’s

[00:04:30.28] spk_0:
left to them. Well, if they spend it, then we’re hoping they’re gonna be giving it away because otherwise we have nothing to talk about it. If they’re all buying super yachts, then you and I may as well end right now, shut the mics

[00:04:43.04] spk_1:
off. I mean, for the sake of humanity, I really hope that they’re not just buying superyachts. How about that?

[00:04:49.40] spk_0:
Okay, right. Super yachts, private

[00:04:51.42] spk_1:

[00:04:53.18] spk_0:
You and I

[00:04:54.38] spk_1:
can’t possibly conceive of tony

[00:05:04.04] spk_0:
Okay, I hope not. I hope it doesn’t go that way. Alright. Otherwise, like I said, you know, you and I are done in three minutes. Okay, let’s go on the safe assumption on the humanitarian and um magnanimous assumption that uh, they’re gonna be giving a lot of this wealth away and, and they’ll be growing it too. Right?

[00:05:16.14] spk_1:

[00:05:21.44] spk_0:
So you’re encouraging us to focus well before we get to the, you know, what to do, how to reach these folks.

[00:05:25.94] spk_1:

[00:05:41.94] spk_0:
are, what are some of these factors that you alluded to? Why are you expecting? Why? I think the, the estimates I’ve seen of transfer from baby boomers to millennials is not 50 trillion. I’ve seen 20-30 trillion or something like that. But you’re saying so in

[00:06:00.54] spk_1:
20, in 2014, um, um, For Boston College or some researchers at Boston College did a research and their prediction was 58 trillion would, would be transferred to the next gen. And that I think it includes gen x and gen y and ultimately gen z. So it’s not just millennials would be in the amount of 58 trillion, but when we’re talking 30 40 50 ultimately, I think it’s the same. It doesn’t really matter. It’s just a huge amount of money.

[00:06:28.14] spk_0:
It is. Okay. And so you’d like us to approach are younger donors Because we’re talking about, we’re talking about anybody 60 and under, where, you know, I

[00:06:41.44] spk_1:
would say like when does gen x start 50 and under maybe probably 55. I don’t know whatever gen x is. But yes, I think millennials are the the the most commonly, um, the most commonly thought about populist, But ultimately I think, you know, the age of the internet, the age of artificial intelligence, all of these kinds of things are, are, are ushering in new ways to engage donors. And I think that’s the crux of it.

[00:06:59.74] spk_0:
Okay, okay, now you’re using millennials and gen X interchangeably.

[00:07:18.54] spk_1:
No, No, No Gen X is what 1965-1980? Millennials are 1982, Some say 2000, some say 96. And then gen, Gen Z is people that are too young for me to think about.

[00:07:31.34] spk_0:
Okay, we’re not there yet. Um, Alright, what, what’s your, what’s your advice around talking to these? Um, millenials and gen xers?

[00:09:03.54] spk_1:
Yeah, I think you asked a great question previously and I’ll get to this question, but let’s talk about why they’re different because I think that’s really important to note. There’s a few factors that are, that are super interesting. The first one is, household sizes are smaller and you might think, why does that matter? Well, there are fewer millennials and gen Z s than there were their parents. And so between, I think it’s from 1962 around today or 2018 or whenever this data was published, Household size in the us has gone from 3.6 people per family to 3.1 people. Now that might be only half a person, but that’s a substantial number of people. And what it means is the people inheriting money are actually gonna be fewer, right in terms of their populace, but they’re gonna have more capacity in terms of their wealth. And so I think this data point is actually quite um, it’s interesting, it’s a little bit terrifying in some ways because you know, you’re gonna organizations, the sector as a whole is going to have to seek, you know, a a lot more from individual people as opposed to being able to diversify in the same way. I think that’s a very interesting piece of data and one that I think is going to change the dynamic, especially of major gifts because, you know, currently you think about the people, the high net worth individuals, the families, they care about health care or they care about this or there’s a lot of yours, Right? I think with that next generation there’s gonna be a lot of ants because there’s less people inheriting larger amounts of money. And I think excuse me, that’s quite profound. Don’t you think tony I

[00:09:25.94] spk_0:
do. I think I have a person, times tens, the many tens of millions of exactly that we have in this country that’s significant. Uh, you know, we’ve always thought of the average family as, you know, a family of four. All right, so you’re saying

[00:09:28.56] spk_1:

[00:09:41.34] spk_0:
saying the average is 3.6, but look 3.6 rounds to 43.1, barely, barely, barely three. So, you know, with 3.6 and four, 3.1 is a big difference.

[00:10:03.74] spk_1:
Absolutely. And think about it like this, if somebody, you know, earns $250 million over their life and they built a portfolio of real estate and wealth and influence ultimately. And they take that and they go to one kid, okay, let’s say each kid, you know, 100 25 million, but when one child is inheriting all that money, your major donor pool is ultimately getting smaller and and so now they have more power, they have more influence, they have actually ability to write bigger checks, but organizations are gonna have to do better at collaborating to generate these things because whether we like to admit it or not in the sector, tony

[00:10:20.21] spk_0:
Another, the other 125 million goes to the Super Yacht.

[00:10:23.84] spk_1:
Of course, sorry, tony slipped my mind. So

[00:10:27.56] spk_0:
there we are. So we’re done again again, we’re done. One kid and one super yacht, there’s your 250. Alright,

[00:10:33.59] spk_1:
You just you just cut generosity and a half and I think we started, Alright,

[00:10:37.34] spk_0:
let’s reduce the super yacht, you know, let’s say in

[00:10:40.44] spk_1:

[00:10:44.94] spk_0:
five, let’s do 75 million on the Super Yacht. Another 50. Another 50 to be very generous

[00:12:26.14] spk_1:
with. I’m gonna cut you off because I’d like to share a couple more pieces of data that are useful. The first one, is that, Is that migration has changed over the past kind of 30, 40 years Kids or kids in that 3.1 case right, families are actually staying more geographically close together. And that was especially heightened during the pandemic, where 52% of people aged 18 or 29 were actually at home with their folks in 2020. Now, if you look at data from Um, I think it’s 2004 is when it starts people, both seniors. And so like the parents of these boomers who many of them have passed now, but also the kids of these boomers are staying closer together, which means, you know, they’re more integrated into their families. And what that at least the research that we read and I understood or interpreted was that that can actually mean that maybe people are more aligned with their parents, beliefs or they’re more engaged with them? Or at least they certainly know their parents interests better. Now. The question we’re going to have to figure out is is that going to make them more likely to continue the legacies? Let’s say I I’m I’m let’s say there’s a high net worth family. Okay. And they’ve spent years giving to poverty alleviation? Well, these kids or kids that inherit this money because they’re closer to those parents, both geographically and, you know, in many other ways, are they going to continue that legacy? Are they going to rebel against it when they give? And it’s a question we don’t know the answer to, but it’s an interesting piece of data well,

[00:12:31.04] spk_0:
which also leads to, uh, you know, our our subject of appealing to these

[00:12:32.07] spk_1:

[00:13:45.64] spk_0:
so that they don’t, by default, abandon the philanthropy of their, of their parents. I mean, they may do it consciously, but you don’t want it to just happen because you never gave it a shot to, to avoid it from happening. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They’ll develop your media strategy for you. What are the parts of that? It starts with identifying your core messages then defining those channels, those outlets where those messages ought to be heard. The places where you want to be known as a thought leader turn to will do the legwork to approach those outlets and as they close opportunities for you, craft your message appropriately to the specific audience you’re gonna be talking to. That is a media strategy. That’s what turned to communications can do for you because your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O now back to appealing to tomorrow’s major donors because I want to keep talking about the trends before we get to the Yeah. And I think there’s one

[00:14:14.84] spk_1:
interesting one that we can’t forget and that’s women outlive men, um, by like, I think it’s like five years on average in the US now. So it’s like, that’s a, that’s like, you know, a meaty 56789% of people’s lives. Right? And so it’s interesting because unlike, you know, unlike, unfortunately similar to many other things in our history, you’ve kind of focused on like older white men that’s been like, you know, kind of it’s you see it in representation in politics on boards of directors and ceo position in funding for investments, whatever it might be.

[00:14:27.65] spk_0:
Call it what it is. We’re talking about sexism.

[00:15:27.04] spk_1:
Sure, look, I’m a person of color. I I don’t and my wife’s a person of color who is a woman. She has it way worse tonight. Right? And so the interesting thing is my wife’s gonna be gonna outlive me almost for certain. I mean for sure in my case, but, you know, demographically as well. And so philanthropy forget about just the transfer of wealth. The transfer of wealth is going to be inter mediated by the transfer from men who are dying at, you know, whatever 70 something to women who are probably dying 56 years later. And so philanthropy is going to be affected by the fact that decision making historically and giving has been made by the primary breadwinners. But as we see more women taking positions and leadership making more money. We see women inheriting money, they’re gonna give differently. And I don’t think we exactly know how that is yet. But that’s like I said, it’s like a stepping in the in the in the transfer, right? So I did a point that’s super relevant to this conversation.

[00:15:40.94] spk_0:
There is research about the way women give being different than the way men give. They want to be more involved. Uh, they were more involved in in how the money is used. Um, it’s less transactional for them. And uh,

[00:15:45.73] spk_1:
that’s interesting. I didn’t know that.

[00:16:06.54] spk_0:
Yeah. And um, they like, you know, they like to have more of a role in how it’s spent. Um, and it’s, yeah, I don’t, I think there’s, there’s other research to that. They like to be not only involved in how what their gift is is going to do, but be involved in the organization generally. So maybe they’re giving they’re giving what we’re talking about major donors, I think is what

[00:16:17.80] spk_1:
the research

[00:16:18.85] spk_0:
research is. Um, but they’ll also be, they’ll increase their volunteering with your

[00:16:23.94] spk_1:
organization, which

[00:16:27.64] spk_0:
may have nothing at all to do with their giving. Uh, they again, less transactional more, much more relational when it’s when

[00:16:33.69] spk_1:
it’s and I think what’s interesting is like, there isn’t much data on that yet, Right. Because of the demographic realities and the power dynamics that have been so, so unfortunate. And so you see

[00:16:44.44] spk_0:
like, Yeah,

[00:16:50.04] spk_1:
and that’s, I think you’re gonna see more of the research and ultimately more from that because it’s valuable, you know,

[00:17:00.64] spk_0:
the sexism in fundraising is, uh, I think long standing and obviously shortsighted, um, not just in fundraising, right.

[00:17:03.23] spk_1:
tony and everything, to be honest.

[00:17:05.64] spk_0:
Absolutely, yeah.

[00:18:37.84] spk_1:
But what’s interesting is there’s also been and I’m not, you know, I want to kind of move on because there’s also been quite a significant ageism in fundraising. You said it yourself, we spend, what is it 80% of our time on the top? 20% of donors? I think that’s the math that everyone teaches at fundraising school. Um, but what’s interesting is that’s shortsighted ultimately. Yes, I understand it completely. I really do. But what is interesting is, and this is something I touched on in my lecture 10 10 was, you know, the investment in youth giving has actually been minimal to be honest, because it hasn’t seen us providing as much instant return on investment, which is true. It’s a long game, not a short game, right? And but youth, the youth, especially in the context of this transfer of wealth, are going to inherit all that money. And if you haven’t laid your groundwork, you can’t suddenly show up at their door and young people giving even if they don’t have wealth yet or at all. But yet for the sake of this conversation is different. A couple of interesting trends. The first one is young people and I say this millennials I think is the research that I’m quoting are much more influenced by their peers. So young people, I think the data point is our 46% more likely to donate if a co worker does and 65% more likely to volunteer if a co worker does. That’s fascinating to me because it actually it’s a social activity in a weird way. You know, the power, you know, we’ll talk about social media maybe in a bit. But that’s interesting. The second data

[00:18:45.66] spk_0:
point. That’s Yeah. So that’s just that’s co workers, not even necessarily friends.

[00:18:51.84] spk_1:
I assume the data is similar for friends,

[00:18:55.34] spk_0:
friends giving up their birthdays, friends doing peer to peer campaigns.

[00:19:06.54] spk_1:
Well, I think, and I think I have a peer to peer data point that in my notes, let me just see if I can pull it up. I’ll see if I can find it. But let’s keep going. Yeah,

[00:19:12.64] spk_0:
Okay. But coworkers. That’s that’s quite an affinity for co worker giving.

[00:20:19.84] spk_1:
But and you know, we see it, look, I have a lot of young millennials in all my staff and they’re wonderful and amazing people and they’re definitely, you know, whenever something personal giving, that’s the other point. The second point, this is actually a nice segue giving us much more personal to millennial generation. And that has a couple of ramifications for example, to segue from our previous conversation When you know, we have, I think we have staff from 15 countries at Kayla um, on our team born who are born in 15 countries. And so, you know, whether it’s an issue area they care about or something happening in in a in a home or or former place of theirs, they share the plight and also opportunities to engage, right? I think this is a beautiful part of our culture because it helps, you know, But I can, I can watch this in action. I can see I’ve made donations because our coworkers feels an affinity or a passion or, or a sense of connection to a cause. And so, you know, I think that is interesting because I’ve watched it kind of firsthand, right, tony I think that’s super. That’s it kind of reinforces from a non data perspective kind of qualitatively exactly what this data point is showing

[00:20:51.14] spk_0:
interest. But I think, you know, what else, you know, uh, anecdotally I’m a young baby boomer and I’ve never done that. I’ve never given because a coworker gate, I mean I haven’t, haven’t had coworkers for something like 20 years, but back when I did for the short time that I did and I could stand being an employee of someone else. I, I never gave for that reason.

[00:22:47.24] spk_1:
Well, and I think the social media thing is, is I can’t find the data point and I apologize, but I think it’s essentially the same thing. It’s that folks are influenced, not in a bad way, but like folks are inspired is a better way to put it from their communities ultimately. And it’s not church or synagogue or mosque or united way as much or community centers anymore. It’s what they’re seeing on social media, what matters most of their friends and what that actually is kind of segue. Me too is that they’re giving is much more personal for millennials than it was. You know I say our generation I’m right at the cusp of being a millennial but I consider myself at least emotionally outside of it. And so things like organizational status, tax deductibility, organizational legitimacy are much less at the forefront of their decision making. They you know the rise of go fund me where people are giving to people directly the rise of um of of of not having the intermediary of an organization. Um the rise of not carrying the fact that they’re not going to get a tax receipt which is gonna offset a percentage of their donations. Millennials aren’t necessarily looking for that break or something tangible. They want that feeling of making an impact right? There’s a huge feel. It’s it’s why we see the rise of you know be corpse attracting more staff and the why that almost every millennial says when you’re looking for a job impact is a part of that calculus. And so you see those I’m gonna go out and say values of a generation applying themselves or or or or showing their face in giving in a very different way from from me and you and our parents and I think that’s very interesting.

[00:24:09.24] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Fourth dimension technologies. Their I. T. Solution is I. T. Infra in a box it’s the I. T. Buffet, it’s budget friendly. It’s holistic. You pick what you need and you leave the rest behind the different components that are available. I. T. Assessment, multi factor authentication for security, other security methods, cost analysis of where you’re standing, what you’re spending money on the help desk and there’s more you choose what’s right for your I. T. Budget for your I. T. Situation as it exists. Like they’ll help you fill the gap between where you are and where you want to be. That’s the I. T. Infra in a box. Fourth dimension technologies tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. Let’s return to appealing to tomorrow’s major donors. Let’s turn to what nonprofits can do to huh exploit this and using exploitation as in a non pejorative sense. Take advantage of or

[00:24:09.64] spk_1:
C the opportunity I think.

[00:24:15.14] spk_0:
Yeah in the data and then the and then the trend.

[00:24:17.12] spk_1:

[00:24:18.01] spk_0:
And you know I think enormous wealth transfer. So let’s talk about the

[00:26:02.74] spk_1:
really low hanging fruit like the most boring fruit that you could possibly and and and that’s like you know when high net worth individuals give for major donors for major giving. Excuse me as major donors. They don’t see it as I. Samuel l smith is making the donation. It’s me the smith on behalf of my family. The smith family. It’s a family. There’s so much of that family legacy idea and so when organizations are so privileged to get those kinds of donations don’t just look at Sam look at SAm’s wife and look at Sam’s kids and make those connections with the family and that’s for two reasons. One, it’s the right thing to do. Super obvious. But to it’s actually laying the groundwork for, for relationships in the future, share the impact being made, engage the families, the kids. Especially because if you want to get another gift, if you want to, you know, create opportunity from that, it’s going to happen likely either when the donor dies and his or her wife does it or husband, but much more likely their kids continuing that legacy. So engage with them. Like that’s not hard. It’s like, you know, bring them, bring them in, engage them, take them out to lunch instead of just the major donor or the couple or whatever it is. It’s an easy thing to do is encouraging families to come and come around recognizing the families, not just the person and then offering entry points for the kids to um, to engage the organization as volunteers. You know, we talked in the, in the lecture and, and Nathaniel gave a great example about youth councils and, you know, bringing on kind of communities or boards of youth. Often the kind of, yeah, kind

[00:26:08.60] spk_0:
of advisory like

[00:26:09.50] spk_1:
engagement boards I think would be the best way to put it. But yeah,

[00:26:13.03] spk_0:

[00:26:15.91] spk_1:
I’m just in our notes, we call them like youth, hold on. I’ll find the exact term we used.

[00:26:22.30] spk_0:

[00:26:22.64] spk_1:
think they’re called youth councils,

[00:26:24.24] spk_0:
you’ve counted. But what you would call them for the folks. Youth council,

[00:26:27.60] spk_1:

[00:26:40.94] spk_0:
You want that, you want that perspective in your, in your event planning, certainly in your event planning, but in your fundraising, you know, you may, you may not be thinking of peer to peer well,

[00:26:41.52] spk_1:
and that’s actually my next point

[00:26:43.60] spk_0:
Are in their 30s and 40s, you may not be taking a peer to peer campaigns.

[00:28:54.04] spk_1:
And I have a feeling a big part of there’s a, there’s a symbiosis between that data point on giving from coworkers and peer to peer. So peer to peer kind of had a lot of sex appeal a few years ago, and then people were like, is it that valuable? I’m here to say peer to peer is phenomenally valuable, but not necessarily because people think it is or thought it was. I think a lot of people thought, oh, it’s gonna spike our donation. I’m in it for the long game here. To me, Pierre, Pierre is an entry point to engagement with an entirely new group of donors. I think the numbers in the 80% of people who give through a peer to peer campaign are first time donors to the cause. And, and if you don’t store them effectively, which we can talk about later or on another show or I’m sure you have really qualified folks talking about it, you’re gonna lose that donor to bring them into your giving ecosystem as an organization, but they are an entry point where somebody else is doing the lead generation for you, right? Ultimately that giving about coworkers, I give to every single period of your campaign. One of my staff’s writing in a, you know, um, cycling in an event or running a race or I don’t know whatever it might be. That’s an entry point. That’s an entry point. And it’s an entry point to diversify your donor base to access new donors to get your giving list up and, and we all know in the space, the donor retention is a lot cheaper than donor acquisition. Every data, like there’s absurd amounts of data that show that and peer to peer is a great example and, and it’s how you engage a generation and I’m gonna take it a step further. Millennials like to feel agency, they want to be part of something that goes back to that feeling that personal nature of it. When you get folks engaging with peer to peer, what you’re doing is not just getting money. You’re, you’re, you’re building advocates right? Like the youth council, but much more scalable, ultimately right. You’re getting perspective, you’re building advocates, you’re, you’re finding new ways to get into communities and you’re ultimately empowering social media to do the work for you and why wouldn’t you do that? And I think it doesn’t have to be a big event or a race. It can be, you know, that we can use peer to peer much more creatively to, to think about the long term opportunities, does that make sense? tony I

[00:29:21.34] spk_0:
had a guest, yes, it does have a guest who used the example of a local animal shelter they hosted a dog wedding for and, and you know, again an event to attract younger donors and, and it was phenomenally successful. I know you said it to my

[00:29:44.94] spk_1:
staff, they would all go like all these, it’s just, that’s a lot of them have dogs and you know, you know, it is what it is and it’s, it’s wonderful for them cause a lot of them are having kids, right? tony look at that number kid that 3.6 to 3.1 that someone’s not having Children and so, but that’s a way to encourage an entire demographic, you probably would, wouldn’t get to otherwise. I think that’s brilliant. It’s brilliant.

[00:29:51.44] spk_0:
Her other idea was a bark mitzvah.

[00:29:53.74] spk_1:

[00:29:57.81] spk_0:

[00:29:59.08] spk_1:
to make a joke with mazel tov like,

[00:30:04.45] spk_0:

[00:30:05.12] spk_1:
it’s there, it’s there,

[00:30:19.34] spk_0:
it was all about to share that with her. Um, yeah, very good, very good, very good. Um, yeah, as somebody who thinks that the only good puns are the ones that I think of, but I thought I thought bark mitzvah was very good, yes muzzle top outstanding, very good, very good. Alright, tony I told

[00:30:28.50] spk_1:
you I have now been a dad for two years and so my dad joke. This is just, it’s, it’s coming, it’s rising, you know?

[00:30:40.34] spk_0:
Well you’re still just approaching it because is very good. When the jokes start to be about your genes, you know, then then then they’re then they’re tired. They’re

[00:30:47.42] spk_1:
tired. You’re

[00:30:59.84] spk_0:
just you’re just approaching but but you’re still in the you’re still in the humorous category and not high rolling. You’re not, you haven’t, you haven’t transcended into the eye rolling. Alright.

[00:31:00.18] spk_1:
There’s two more topics I want to touch on briefly before we run out of time.

[00:31:17.24] spk_0:
We have time. Okay. Wait, are these still in the category of what nonprofits can do to, to attract and appeal to and or steward, you mentioned stewardship I want to, you know what be doing do talk

[00:32:23.04] spk_1:
about? I think there’s two factors that we all that. So I I don’t know if this is a do and bring me back onto shore if you need me to. But let’s talk about family foundation and donor advised funds for a second because engaging both of these things is actually critical to capitalizing on the opportunity of of the transfer of wealth. So, you know, for whatever tax reasons, right. A lot of folks might build family foundations or or engage with staff so that they can receive the tax benefits on the event of some kind of liquidation. Whatever it’s selling the company or having a windfall or whatever it might be. But what’s interesting is two things to think about the first one is how are we thinking about that as part of the transfer of wealth? Like what can we do with that? And the second one is, that’s a give now benefit or, you know, benefit other communities. It’s like give now from a tax perspective, give later for the organizations. And so to me, I think laying the groundwork engaging family foundations or high net worth individuals early as that process is starting is going to be super valuable because folks could pass with dispersement quotas very low, at least in Canada. And I think in the States they’re relatively low as well.

[00:32:39.16] spk_0:

[00:33:40.24] spk_1:
5%. So I think Canada just went from 3.5 to 5% in this past budget last week. Actually, well, exactly because their foundations, right. But yeah, so, but the thing is those are, those are like grounds for giving, you know, from a generational wealth because ultimately the kids might be forget about being involved, tony the kids might be actually driving that even when their parents pass on, so the gift has been made, but the, but the, but the beneficiary hasn’t benefited yet. And so it’s this liminal state that if we forget about as organizations and I speak as a board member of six nonprofits or five or whatever the number is, we’re losing an opportunity as part of this transfer of wealth. So laying the groundwork starting to build relationships with both the foundations and the daft or the daft, depending on the structure, getting the kids involved in other ways. Like peer to peer, I think, not forgetting the family foundations and the daft components to generational transfer would be shortsighted.

[00:37:02.03] spk_0:
It’s time for Tony’s take two. I’m returning very shortly To New York City for two weeks. In fact, as you’re listening to this, I’ll be in the city And you know, I lived in the city for 15 years, but I’ve got some trepidation about returning. Um and I don’t think that my situation is any different than yours. You know, returning to old Patterns, old places, it might be an office, might be returning home after having been away through the pandemic. That’s my situation. I haven’t been in New York City since early March 2020. And so things on my mind do I remember how to get around on the subway. I feel like that’s like riding a bicycle. Um I don’t think I’ll get on too many uptown trains when I want to go downtown, but you know, the familiarity, the old alacrity, the smoothness, the comfort, it’s not quite there. I’m gonna have to check check my subway map app more often than I used to where you know, I used to just pop downstairs. Oh yeah, it’s right this way pop pop pop. I know the turn, I know which uh entrance I wanna use. I know exactly where to stand waiting for the train. I don’t have that, that level of comfort anymore. And Covid of course, You know, I did see that. Covid rates are declining in Northeast. But I mean new york city is still a huge city densely populated. So we got some trepidation there. I’m gonna have to be more scrupulous about my masking than uh, than I am here in this little beach town in north Carolina. And then the other part is just, you know, identity. I was a new yorker for 15 years And yes, I, I moved out of New York six years ago. So it’s not, I didn’t move out because of the pandemic. I left several years before, but for two weeks, I don’t know, can I be a new yorker again for two weeks? Is that that allowed? Am I a tourist? I don’t know. I’m, I don’t think I’m an expat new yorker living in north Carolina. I don’t feel like that. No, but am I a tourist returning for two weeks? Interesting. What’s, what’s my identity? How do I fit in former resident? Not, you know, that that’s somewhere higher cash than tourist returning resident, but just for two weeks. So interesting. You know, and I’m sure that you have got lots of these kinds of thoughts going on as you return two old patterns, old places That’s Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo, but loads more time for appealing to tomorrow’s major donors with najid Kassem by the way. You’re on five boards, you were dismissed from one of the boards. I’m not at liberty to reveal at this time, but you’ll, they’ll be in touch with you.

[00:37:11.43] spk_1:
Good to know. tony I’ll expect the letter.

[00:37:14.13] spk_0:
Now the donor advised funds and the foundation. Yeah, very good. But when I said, when you know the kids are involved now, um, ultimately, I mean the kids may have already taken over, but ultimately when their baby boomer parents have died, then the kids are gonna be involved, especially in the family

[00:37:38.83] spk_1:
legally required to, to make disbursements. So if you haven’t gotten on the ground game now In 5, 10, 15, 20 years when there are these huge amounts of money, which they constantly have to be giving away, you’re gonna be behind the eight ball and that’s unfortunate position for folks to begin

[00:37:59.33] spk_0:
good. Yeah, no good advice. And that is right in line with what nonprofits can be talking about can be thinking about and and likely acting on. So yes, now you’re, you’re still in that you’re still in the, you’re still in the game.

[00:38:13.82] spk_1:
I’m still, I wanted to end at some point with five weird facts about legacy giving that I found, which I think you would really enjoy. I

[00:38:22.12] spk_0:
probably will. Let’s not, it’s, it’s not the show though. It’s still tony-martignetti non profit radio So hold, hold back with the, with the anarchy and we’ll get, we’ll get to the five points. we still have plenty of

[00:38:27.56] spk_1:

[00:38:31.02] spk_0:
alright, the five, five idiosyncrasies maybe of plan giving or legacy giving as you call it.

[00:38:34.79] spk_1:
And I think which is relevant obviously in the transfer of wealth conversation of course. What

[00:38:49.12] spk_0:
about what about more advice about thinking about acting on younger the younger generations, millennials generation, z you mentioned stewardship, what are we talking about? So

[00:38:51.08] spk_1:
I was just, I was just gonna go there and talk about

[00:38:52.72] spk_0:

[00:39:56.92] spk_1:
So, so I think one of the pieces of advice that Nathaniel especially gave is like the post gift engagement, especially in peer to peer. And I thought that was really interesting because, and it’s two kinds of post of stewardship, the stewardship of the donors who give to peer peer campaigns, which is valuable and we talked about expanding the donor base, but I think what she really drummed down on is how important it is to actually engage with the fundraisers, the folks who are actually doing the period, like, you know, who are the, you know, for those of you who don’t know a peer to peer, you have a group of fundraisers who raise money for the cause and donors make donations in support of those fundraisers and the money goes to the organizations, but the fundraisers, they’re kind of like your champions, right? They’re the ones who are casting a wide net who are sharing and promoting, who are engaging their social media’s and I think one thing that we often forget is to thank the fundraisers, we do a good job of thanking the people with the money fine and maybe we don’t do good enough a job but you write a check general, you’re gonna get a thank you. But the fundraisers are actually your access to market their your go to market strategy, so to speak and so

[00:40:03.19] spk_0:
you’re right. They created the campaign.

[00:40:05.66] spk_1:
Absolutely. They did all your work for you

[00:40:15.91] spk_0:
birthday, whatever. Yes. Yeah. Are we are we are you seeing that? Are we bad at thanking the fundraisers? We are we

[00:41:37.01] spk_1:
are um it’s very automated, it’s thanking for signing up more than thank you for what you’ve done. So a lot of like the impact or or community reporting people often forget the fundraisers and there’s you know, we’ve seen that anecdotally, we’ve seen that with our product and I’ve seen that in some of the research as well. And so where you know, Nathaniel gave this great example, I’m trying to remember but she said send a personalized impact report to the things that the fundraisers care about because generally when you’re signing up as a fundraiser for a peer to peer campaign, you give insight into the things you care about the reasons you’re doing. My mom, you know, my grandmother passed away from acts or my you know, my my aunt did this or or someone at my work struggled with that. And so you’re gonna get some insight into what they care about and if you want them to run these things again to do it participate next year or in subsequent years to get more involved as a donor themselves or a volunteer that follow up is so valuable and make and spending the time Doing it for for each of them, even if it’s 10 minutes, you know, make a call, put their name on an impact report, it’s so little in terms of cost or time, but the value of the return and ultimately that feeling of values align, which was, you know, I’ve tried to come through, come up over and over again through the, you know, this conversation about millennials, they’ll feel valued, they’ll feel values aligned and ultimately it’s the right thing to do, but but also it will help you getting them to get engaged in other ways or or

[00:41:56.31] spk_0:
again. Yeah, Alright, very smart, very savvy. I’m disappointed to hear that we’re not being good about the fundraisers. It’s I

[00:42:17.30] spk_1:
think it’s easy because there’s lots of them and it’s hard because we’re not used to it. Right, peer to peer is relatively new, it’s not built into the muscle memory of us as fundraisers and I think that’s yeah, a lot of organizations, especially mid to large ones are actually getting peer to peer officers now. So you know, you’ve got your major grant donor officer or program manager, you got your recurring donor, you got your peer to peer now because the R. O. I. S. Is so strong both from a brand perspective and from the donation perspective. Right.

[00:42:24.33] spk_0:
Very good. Thank you. All right. When you said you had I think you said you had to

[00:43:45.90] spk_1:
I think I think the stewardship one is interesting and it actually comes to you know again it’s that personalization element what what millennials want to hear however you’re engaging them if they’re the kids of high net worth if they’re part of peer to peer campaigns or if they’re just giving in general as part of the transfer they want to see much more intimately or much more directly what’s happening with the money? Right. What are you know the older generation is like how much are you spending on administration? That’s actually a lot less. They don’t care as much and you can see that because of how they’re giving, what they care about is what actually happened to that money. I don’t care if you use 13 cents or 18 cents or 23 cents for administration. How many malaria nets was I able to get from that or you know what value did my gift or my time bring to the cause that I care deeply about and that subtle difference in stewardship is actually quite substantial in how you treat it. So you know it’s not a budget or or or a financial document that you’re sending as part of stewardship it’s a lot around stories around data on impact and and around around making them feel like they were a part of that, which I think is quite different from what we saw in this boomer and other generations. What do you think? tony

[00:43:50.96] spk_0:
Yeah, no, I agree. I think there’s been less attention to that.

[00:43:56.00] spk_1:

[00:43:56.78] spk_0:
been it’s been growing, but the boomers are probably dying at a faster rate than they can, they can gain the they can gain the benefit of. I’m one of them, I’m happy to be a younger one.

[00:44:32.29] spk_1:
But but I also think it goes back to the values which we’ve sort of been talking about, right, that different reason for giving, right that the reason people millennials take certain jobs or do certain things or engage with certain, you know, community activities or civil society, it is different. And if we don’t steward differently with that, we’re not only missing an opportunity. We’re kind of not meeting folks where they are.

[00:44:34.29] spk_0:
Look, if, you know, if you’re ignoring this, the difference in the generations, you’re, you’re doing so at your peril. You know, you’re, you’re ignoring critical difference is that there’s a difference between your 70 year old donor and your 40 year old donor

[00:44:48.88] spk_1:
and I don’t want your old donor and

[00:44:51.30] spk_0:
You’re 25-30 year old donor

[00:44:53.59] spk_1:
absolutely and I don’t want it to be like we’re just doing this to get more money. Like as much as that’s easy to do. You want to connect like it’s the right thing to

[00:45:14.49] spk_0:
do. Yeah. Including families has always been, especially in planned giving, but it’s, it’s just, it’s just smart. It’s just smart business, um, engagement, which leads leads to more, more, greater impact, whether it’s volunteering or giving or just thinking well of your cause.

[00:45:23.26] spk_1:
You know, you

[00:45:24.25] spk_0:
know, I don’t give to the organization anymore, but they were very good to me when my mom died,

[00:45:30.19] spk_1:

[00:45:35.29] spk_0:
All right. All right. The Big five now giving, I will, I, I prefer the phrase planned giving so I’ll tolerate, I’ll not accept, but I’ll tolerate your legacy giving moniker.

[00:45:46.49] spk_1:
This kind of, and I’m gonna type

[00:45:49.97] spk_0:

[00:46:47.28] spk_1:
of them back to the conversation we’ve had today. So this isn’t out of nowhere. So first data point is 50% of like of, of planned donors give to their organization for more than 20 years before making a planned gift. So when we talk about engaging folks If you’re 45 or 50 right now, you’re part of that gen x or you’re, you know, you’re an elder millennial. If the, if the data point stays strong 20 years, it’s gotta start now, You know, if you want. And that, that’s why this transfer of wealth is super interesting. Number two donors, aged 44 older represent about 75% of all wills and more than 80% of the total value of all charitable requests made. So again, 44 is a young, it’s, you know, it’s not, we’re not talking people in their seventies when people are thinking about their wills, their thinking about the, when their kids are still in single digits often, right? Like, you know, we, my wife and I did our will when she was pregnant. We didn’t have a will before that, but we, you know, we did our, our will our wills. I guess there’s two of them

[00:46:52.80] spk_0:
was donors, 44 and over represents 75% of all existing wills

[00:46:58.73] spk_1:
and more than 80% of the request

[00:47:07.58] spk_0:
And more than 80% of all right. I guess I’d like to see a finer breakdown. Like that’s 44 and over. You know, What’s, what is 60 and over look like

[00:47:10.18] spk_1:
and I don’t have that off my fingertips. But I would bet it’s even it’s the vast majority. I

[00:47:14.95] spk_0:
would bet I

[00:47:33.48] spk_1:
would bet again, Absolutely, absolutely. Number three, 50% of donors age 50 and over with no Children had charitable estate plans, but among similar donors With Children, only 17% had philanthropic plans. That one was actually quite interesting to me.

[00:47:41.08] spk_0:

[00:47:42.58] spk_1:

[00:47:43.91] spk_0:
your, your folks with no Children are better plan giving prospects than your folks with

[00:47:49.55] spk_1:
Children and

[00:47:50.57] spk_0:
There’s, there’s a difference of 33%.

[00:47:56.28] spk_1:
Absolutely, yeah. In terms of the number of them that have wills. Right, Which is fascinating.

[00:48:01.27] spk_0:
That’s the population is have a charitable request in there

[00:48:07.50] spk_1:
will be 30

[00:48:14.67] spk_0:
3% if you’re, if you’re 55 and over, No, 50 and over, You’re 33% more likely to do it if you’re 50 and over and have no Children than you are if you’re 50 and over and had at least one child.

[00:48:36.57] spk_1:
Yes, absolutely. And again, why is this relevant? Because in this transfer of wealth, more and more people are inheriting money who don’t plan to have kids. Right. And that’s super interesting and incredibly relevant. Um,

[00:48:38.77] spk_0:
You know what, that’s even, it becomes more interesting even on another level, because yeah younger folks are less likely to have kids from the current 55 year

[00:48:48.91] spk_1:
olds. So

[00:48:54.57] spk_0:
assuming human nature isn’t, isn’t changing then that the Delta is gonna change between between the population, that doesn’t have Children in the population. That does, because the population that doesn’t have Children is going to grow up.

[00:49:16.17] spk_1:
And you look at that first data point where most people are gonna make requests to folks that they’ve engaged with for 20 plus years. that’s again relevant because more people are not having kids. So you got to engage them earlier. Because if you do the likelihood of you getting a request is, is going to be like you said, the Delta is going to be higher and higher. Right? Very

[00:49:28.23] spk_0:
interesting. And

[00:49:52.27] spk_1:
ultimately Planned gifts from single, never married donors are actually 13% larger than from married donors. So it’s interesting is, again, how do you focus this? This is, this is part of the lecture he gave on like how do you focus your time? Of course, you have unlimited resources. You focus on everybody. But thinking about folks who haven’t been married, um, or are no longer married and without kids, you’re gonna get bigger donations. Right? And, and that’s super interesting. Especially in the context of people not having kids. A lot of this transfer is inter mediated by that,

[00:50:07.06] spk_0:
that those have always been your best planned gift prospects, folks who are unmarried and no

[00:50:11.65] spk_1:

[00:50:23.46] spk_0:
Um, not to not to exclude others from your program. If you have the, if you have the luxury of knowing who has Children and who never married and a lot of that, you can just find out from, uh,

[00:50:26.19] spk_1:
social media.

[00:51:04.96] spk_0:
Well, yeah, that’s true. Um, then then those are your, those are your, you’re ultimately best prospects. And thank you for using the word Penultimate correctly. I appreciate that so many things. So many people think that penultimate is is the better one comes after the ultimate because its penultimate. So she correctly, thank you for using Penultimate, it’s among my favorite words along with, but the ultimate, it’s the

[00:51:11.86] spk_1:
Ultimate, the Bark Mitzvah. Ultimately Pet owners are 70% more likely to give request than non pet owners.

[00:51:15.06] spk_0:
Pet owners.

[00:51:33.86] spk_1:
So free will, which is a will’s website in the US. It like helps folks create their wills. Did some really interesting data around the charitable giving of pet owners and folks who have pet owners are much more likely to make requests, 70% more likely than non pet owners. So I have no idea how to use that piece of data, but it’s so obscure and so interesting that I included it as my factoid and I’m sharing with you

[00:51:46.06] spk_0:
for folks who are in a, in an animal oriented non profit you know, they know

[00:51:48.68] spk_1:
that a lot

[00:51:49.97] spk_0:
of pet owners are very concerned about the life of their pets after their own deaths.

[00:51:55.36] spk_1:

[00:51:56.60] spk_0:
they’ll make, they’ll often make

[00:51:58.39] spk_1:
gifts for

[00:51:59.55] spk_0:
the care of their

[00:52:29.65] spk_1:
pets. Interesting. I, I think what’s interesting is going back to millennials and the demographic data that we’ve seen as most folks, you know, a lot of people who don’t choose to have Children choose to get a pet. It’s like a pretty common, you know, trend, I think. And so, you know, that’s interesting because there they still have a lot of love and they’ve made a choice which is so personal and they want to continue a legacy, Not just for their pets, for what you said, but rather just in general. And so they see their way to, to continue. They don’t have Children. So their legacy is gonna live through their gifts. And I think that’s, that’s, again, speaking to the 3.6 to 3.1 number of people in the household and that number continuing to, to change.

[00:52:49.05] spk_0:
Thank you very much.

[00:52:51.52] spk_1:

[00:52:59.35] spk_0:
let’s take care of a couple of things when it first, don’t you shout out to Nathaniel Fung, since you mentioned a few times, So

[00:53:24.35] spk_1:
was was my co presenter on this. Um I got to give a lot of the nerdy theory that I shared with you all today, but Nathaniel did a phenomenal job of sharing the case studies that she’s done. She spent a lot of years, decades I think, working in health foundations and health giving and she just brought incredible examples of youth councils and examples of campaigns and how they started them. And so it was, it was an absolute treat to, to speak alongside her.

[00:53:32.65] spk_0:
Nathaniel is director of philanthropy, where at

[00:53:32.82] spk_1:
the BC Women’s Foundation

[00:53:34.75] spk_0:
Women’s hospital

[00:53:36.48] spk_1:
british Columbia, women, women’s hospital, where my son was born.

[00:53:41.35] spk_0:
And Kayla, you give it a shot for Kayla,

[00:54:30.04] spk_1:
I mean, always happy to, to to serve such an incredible institution um for those of you who don’t know, Kayla is, is fundraising um intelligence and donor management tools, built, you know, with the most powerful, exciting technology. But built by fundraisers myself, being just one of many and ultimately our goal is to help folks, you know, have a great um donor management experience, to help increase the predictability and to help nonprofits grow. They’re giving it’s a Crm, it’s an intelligence tool. It’s got beautiful and amazing forms you can pick and choose if you want crm, you want forms, you want intelligence. But ultimately it’s a it’s a technology company with the sector at its at its core and I encourage everyone to to always take a look at kayla k e l a dot com.

[00:54:37.34] spk_0:
Dot com, awesome dot com. Very good. Look

[00:54:38.81] spk_1:

[00:54:43.18] spk_0:
dot com. It definitely rhymes what? Almost com

[00:54:49.84] spk_1:

[00:54:52.84] spk_0:
And he’s the ceo and founder, thank you very much for sharing your ideas.

[00:54:55.18] spk_1:
tony always a pleasure and hope to see you. Hopefully not two years from now, maybe before that.

[00:55:00.40] spk_0:
No, thank you. Well, will you be in you think you’ll be in Denver if it’s actually live?

[00:55:05.47] spk_1:
Yes, yes I will. Next.

[00:55:06.74] spk_0:
NTC 23. NTC I believe I’ll be there too. All right,

[00:55:10.81] spk_1:
wonderful. Thanks. tony

[00:56:29.54] spk_0:
my pleasure and thank you listeners for being with Non profit radio coverage of 22 NTC. Thanks so much. Next week, It’s your RFP process as our 2022 non profit technology conference coverage continues. If you missed any part of this week’s show? I beseech you find it at tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o And by 4th dimension technologies I T infra in a box, the affordable tech solution for nonprofits, tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. The shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Thank you for that. Affirmation scotty Be with Me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95 go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for December 13, 2013: Mastering Millennials & Engage By Age

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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My Guests:

Derrick Feldmann: Mastering Millennials

Derrick Feldmann in studioDerrick Feldmann, co-author of The Millennial Impact Report, shares the research on how 20-32 year olds connect, get involved and give to causes they’re passionate about.







Amy Sample Ward: Engage By Age

Picture of Amy Sample WardAmy Sample Ward, our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN), knows which social platforms are best for which ages. She has tips to engage-by-age and reveals platforms to watch for in 2014. Plus, her 60-Second Style Stop.






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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s friday, december thirteenth, twenty thirteen oh, i hope you were with me last week. I’d lapse into frigate triska, dick alia phobia that’s special for today if i came to learn that you had missed brandraise to fundraise. Sarah durham is principal and founder of big duck communications consultants for non-profits we talked about what brandraise ing is and how it paves the road to fund-raising and safeguard your donordigital how do you best preserve and protect your donor information? Scott koegler is our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, and he explained it this week. Mastering millennials derek feldman, co author of the millennial impact report, shares the research on how twenty to thirty two year olds connect, get involved and give two causes they’re passionate about and engaged by age. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor and ceo of non-profit technology network and ten nose which social platforms are best for which ages she has tips to engage by age and reveals the platforms to watch for in twenty fourteen plus. She’ll have her sixty sixty second style stop between the guests on tony’s take two my giving tuesday roundup of round ups we’re improvising a little bit right now because derek feldman, who wants to be in the studio, is supposed to be in the studio isn’t in the studio, but he’s he’s on by phone. In a cab, we’ll find out exactly where he is. Derek feldman leads the research team on the millennial impact project and is ceo of achieved, a consulting company he co authored caused for change. The why and how of non-profit millennial engagement, published by wiley he roots for he writes for philanthropy news digest of the foundation center and the huffington post impact channel on twitter. He’s at derek feldman spelled with two ends derek feldman welcome, thanks so much, tony. I think i’ll be there with you soon. Okay, where are you self? Tell me where you are. Well invited tunnels. So know what side of the city. And so i think i’m about ten minutes. So our eight minute ok, the tunnel. Which time we have a bunch of tunnels? Which tunnel you near lincoln? Oh, my god. You’re what time? Did you leave? Where? Julie? From indiana, i think. Well, it’s, a lot of traffic, but i’ll be there. I promise. Don’t worry. We’ll get okay. All right, now, that’s ok? We can improvise by phone, and then we’ll get you here when you get here. Um what you tell us why we should be even be be studying millennials? Why did you, uh, it was an interesting time is i was looking at, uh, how to understand that a connect with the donors in general about five years ago or so i looked at how we can help clients and individuals better engaged just donorsearch general, and one of the most interesting things that they started to do that i realized that millennials, those in their twenties, early thirties. Although i disagree with the cut office with roughly in the early thirty thirty one thirty two, i started to see some interesting differences between how their connection preference and how somebody who is a boomer had a preference true as well. And i thought, boy, uh, these are the donors of the future. We better start trying to understand what their expectations are. Supporters so that’s kind of how? It kind of got me interested in the discussion, okay? And what’s the history of the research you’ve been at this for several years. Yes, so we are embarking upon the fifth year of the research we’ve had the last four years, we’ve really focused and brought down that sort of engagement to focus on, as you mentioned, how to connect and then how they involve, and then how to give study, marketing, communication messages, solicitation of churches and so forth. And so this is the study of the reported twenty thirteen with the fourth year of the study, and next year we will be in our ship of the chronicle of philanthropy, how melanie alumni are engaging with their institutions, why or why not from their expectations as well. And then, in addition to that, be focusing on the corporate cause engagement side. So how employees millennial employees in particular our viewing, they’re causing gatien through their company and what they want to have happen? Okay, so the first don’t know. We’re talking about the ages twenty to thirty two, right? Is that that’s? What? Your research. Okay. Yeah, i know. There’s. Some a cz you mentioned there’s some you know, questions about where the age cuts off, whatever what? What’s a general, why what’s not, but what your research was twenty to thirty two correct. Okay, okay, and i’m sure that there are differences within that group even write a lot of twenty year old, you’re not like most thirty two year old, yeah, absolutely. And this is something that we’ve had teo look at overall when it comes to even social media engagement and sure, amy can talk about that well, the first year that we did, the study hi uses a facebook and even in our own studies, over the course of the four years we have seen facebook in the younger peer the generation, those twenty to twenty five that uses the cleaning high uses of instagram, image based type platforms like pinterest and so on, and so their differences between that and even as we look at the upper end of that, right? So those that are in the early thirty’s, late forties where starting families and they’re still in trapping exploration and sort it right in the middle, i like to say and there at a time where it’s not necessarily there giving to a lot of causes, and they’re starting to be much more, uh, sophisticated in their types of e-giving approaches so it’s a big age range, lots of changes going on. New technologies are always established that changed some of this, but also in combination of technologies, we see the actual individual going through their own philanthropic exploration. Well, yes. Okay. Studying on individual basis as well, right? I absolutely do. You have you have any objection to the term generation? Why? No, in fact, you know, here you want it like a generational terms and letters and so forth that craigconnects and wind and summer climbing season the next one. Now in that at all. I think the one thing that we are seeing is this trend of, uh, discussion around, you know, do we have to this label, you know, millennial millennial? Or is it just somebody’s in their twenties or even a young adult and so on? I think that will move away from the term millennial in the next three or four years. Our studies, we’ll look at other things, but but if in terms of just using that that name and knowing quite sure it does help some people understand what? Yeah, i mean that’s the advantage of having phrases that we understand. So i was just curious. It doesn’t matter to me what i’m happy to say millennials. I was just wondering if there was any particular, any objection you might had to gen gen y or something. Okay, all right. So the first really sort of phase of long term activity with non-profit is connecting. Yeah, absolutely. What do we what do we see among among millennials and how they get connected and what it is that moves them to connect? Exactly. So we have this is an important feature that a z we were even looking at the continuum of involvement, right? So how somebody moves from hearing about a cause to pure action, what they’re doing and so on way sort of been in this been in this mood that that that we have tto help the millennial move along and educational component that helps them understand the issue that caused issue much more importantly than necessarily the institution or the organization itself. Uh, so what we have what? We have really looked out over the course of the last couple. Years how can we better position the cause issue to try and connect with millennial interests in order to get them to act or commit to the cause? And we have discovered that when the issue is really at the forefront because that’s what they’re sharing our shared common value and shared common issue, the individual tenth have hyre reactionary. So this would be an example of saying, if you care about giving water to everybody in africa, you know, join us, participate, we’re leading with the issue versus saying, this is who we are. These are the three things we stand for, all that other stuff just like it because you heard about the brand right now, and so we’ve got a little bit of differences between those, and the connection point will be much stronger when we focus on the issue. Okay, interesting. So that that’s that’s really, the affinity is for the cause now, i just heard a little background noise. Does the cab driver know that he’s in a recording studio? He does, doesn’t he actually has been really great. So i have to get my cab driver really good. Yeah. Make sure you give it. Up. Give it generous. You make sure you give a generous tip and and if he’s any kind of performer, ask him if he’s a performer, maybe he could be on right now. Really focus. Okay, okay, i don’t know. Plus, i don’t know if he has a sag after card, so we may not be able to let him on if he’s not in the union that way would be able to do it anyway. And and in this in this connection phase, the the millennials are what? How extensive is their use of oven organization’s website? And we have just like, a minute or so before before our first break. Yeah, very, very, very important. We’re seeing that one of the first things that millennial does is look at the digital environment in which they’re attracted to from the issue. So here’s a good sort of play on how we’ve seen action happen. Colonial is interested in cause some impulsive pete. It might be from a peer. Still you google we directly into website, digital environment and from that environment, they do a couple key things. One is they’re trying to figure out if the issue necessarily does. Not what they’re wanting to do. The second thing is understanding how that organization our cause is related to that issue, and then third is going to a social network to see how they’re talking. So we’ve seen that happen time and again, as we do usability, testing and so forth to watch them do that what’s. Also important in that monisha pro quick is the use of the imagery to compel them to act and perform, at least in action, in the digital environment. Okay, excellent there’s a lot. There we’ll stay on this subject subject. What, that what that connect continuum looks like it’s, very interesting, starting going right to digital website, but then switching to social, which amy and amy sample, we’re not going to talk about the second half, okay, stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe. Right, groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight, six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for the truth. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society politics, business it’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me very sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven, it will make you smarter. Hey, hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s do a little live listener love mainz, germany welcome live listen, love to you, hyung zhao, china and shanghai china knee how oh, and dellaccio korea. Anya haserot i decided to start abroad with live listener love today from a cab on the west side, somewhere between the lincoln tunnel and seventy second street. Derek feldman, co author of the millennial impact report we’re talking about mastering millennials, so derek so the the non-profits website in the long term is not not as important to the connection, but initially it sounds like it is important. Yeah, it is. And tony really excited, actually here. Oh, you’re downstairs. Okay. All right, so why don’t you push the button for the floor number two and i’ll just speak while you’re while you’re on your way up. Okay. Derek has made it to the studio at one twenty five west seventy second between columbus and amsterdam. There was one time when amy sample ward had to run. Frequent listeners will remember that. And she will remember as well. I know she’s listening somewhere. Um, she had a run here and ah, little tap dance and she was a lot of breath, but it was no big deal. Derek derek took the civilised way. He took a cab so he will not be out of breath. He’ll be all poised a soon as he walks in and it’s very exciting. I can hear the elevator door opening and he’s actually, you know, he did not take the elevator. Derek feldman actually coming up the stairs, i’m pretty sure didn’t want to wait for the elevator because we’re we’re only on the twelfth floor, so he’s going to have ah, now we’re on the second floor. He’ll be here shortly. Um can’t tell whether he took the stairs or the elevator. The person on the stairs walked past, but so what’s interesting about the, uh, the use of the website is, as i was saying, it is important in the beginning, but then after that it’s ah it’s a switch to the social to the social platforms, so they’re clearly needs to be ease of transitioning someone from your sight too. Twitter, facebook, instagram, you know, however you believe you’re going to be connecting if you want to keep millennials engaged all right. Derek is here. It’s okay, he’s. A lot of breath, but ah, he did take the stairs and it’s only as something. One storey walk. All right, look, school welcome, derrick. Hey there. How are you? Great. Welcome. You know, get out the second person to do this, amy sample murcott same problem. Ah, months months ago when she was still here in new york, she had to she had to run. Okay, so take a breath. We were just talking about i was just recapping, like the importance of the website and the importance of making sure that it’s easy to jump from this website to social channels. Because that’s, what millennials want to do for the long term for the longer term? Absolutely. So what will also see from there is is that we will watch a millennial initially taken action on a site, but it also has a sharing component so it could be something like ah, sign a petition and then shared with your friends and then also going to their social networks. Todo eso quick called action on the site exactly on the website exactly. But because what we really want digital sites to do is help the millennial commit to the cause issue, right? So it’s, if i want water? Yeah, are you in for helping with water? A small action and then also saying, great. Now we want you to share your experience. This is where we share ours. You share ours too. Okay? The er and so so the website becomes less important people. You oh, you know, you know, you’re not finding millennial’s going back to the website very much after first first connection. Correct? Well, that’s sure. Yeah. And so the website has then become much more of ah, platform than to to continue to act upon so later on, there might be email campaigns, solicitations, those kinds of things, but whichever would drive back to the way exactly, sir, if they’re driven there. Well, they’re certainly going back. But if not driven, they’re getting long term information from the social network. Exactly. Okay, now, part of your study included video, right? You were watching people interact with non-profit websites? Yeah, we did use their testing. And so besides us just saying, hey, this is what we found out. We thought we should actually put this stuff in front. Of millennials and get and record their reaction to it. So we performed. We had about a hundred millennials nationwide that we put different types of solicitations infront of communication messages, digital experiences, we had them go through websites tell us what you like, what you don’t like. Tell us what you didn’t like with a solicitation. Why wouldn’t you give for? Why would you? And so all of that way actually shared some of that on her site. We plan to do more and share more of that in the next year. Well, i’m thinking of it. Why don’t you give the earl where people comparing the research and downloaded? Yeah, so all of the research is available for free and thanks to the case foundation stephen jean case foundation want in washington who’s really been helpful in allowing this for the field, and you can find that at the millennial impact dot com. Excellent. Thank you, since the website is important at the connection phase, should we be thinking about being mobile optimized? If we’re going to be optimized for millennials? Absolutely. This is something that’s been really interesting even around the text space first year we did. This study, haiti happens within two weeks after we started without oh my gosh, where you know the study is, the real researchers will be flawed and later on, even in this year when we look at text e-giving overall, it is remains in that year we did the haiti ans and it was eighteen percent of our pool had text to give this last year we had about eighteen and a half percent that have text to give. So for the last four years in our city and i can’t say everybody else’s studies, but then ours we have found that it’s been a little constant. What has risen during that time is the use of mobile engagement for transacting and so forth. So going to a mobile friendly website and then actually donating or taking a cause action after a connection, of course, comes involvement. Exactly what we what we see around involvement generally before we get specific s o i think the trends about eight, nine years ago wass in the field at least let’s create a young professionals group. That was our way to get to get millennials and young professionals, right? So segregated? Yeah, always. Like that in all good intentions, right? We figured that if we create this group, they’ll see they’re like minded friends, they’ll do certain things, and at the same time they’ll be able to actually learn from each other and get more engaged in the cause. But we were doing something very interesting is that we’re still we’re separating them from the true cause work of it. All right? So what we have discovered is this full integration together and secondly, is that we have to, as causes, allow an opportunity for our millennials and quite frankly, any age volunteer advocate to do things with us in a very short amount of time. So as you and i sit here right now, and if i wanted to do cause work for ten minutes, i should be able to do that and have that opportunity, and millennials want that too millennials they’re wanting the opportunity to actually be together at times, but also independently work and do cause work out the day when they can’t doesn’t mean i have to go down in the soup kitchen. How could i have the soup kitchen virtually as well? So that’s the trend that we’re seeing ok on dh also a lot of learning if there is going to be volunteer work. I saw i saw references in the study, too learning online versus making learning online available. Yeah, one of the biggest complaints millennials have told us is, you know, i go to a volunteer experience the first half hour is you teaching me what i’m going to do and their complaint is i don’t know if you know this, we live in an a on my environment, you can train us online prior to us getting there you can what you know, it’s an extra half hour, you’ve wasted thirty minutes exactly okay also a lot of interest in connecting with like minded peers, right? Seeing that as the reason for volunteering exact right, and so the some the initial engagement of causes either happens by themselves or with peers in pierre. Engagement is really hype here fund-raising is high with millennials and so on and when it comes to peer involvement, it’s the same thing, but here is where we get really challenged is that our organisations are not necessarily set up to do peer involvement tight service so, for instance if they go to the soup kitchen well, randy, you’re over there. Derek, you’re over here and you over there. I know you all came together here and you wanted to do this is appear thing, but we’re going to separate you and that’s another again, another complaint that we’ve heard hyre we talked about pure fund-raising or peer-to-peer fund-raising our runs, walks and rides popular very they are very, very and, you know, i’m not, and i think run race, walk is an incredible opportunity to expose people to cause work. The question is, what do we do with it? After that, we had about sixty three percent had participated in a run race walk in the highest, ah, one of the highest fund-raising components besides just giving out right as well, event based, i’ll fund-raising too. And so once we get this opportunity where we’re bringing our friends our peers altogether, and this is where amy can talk as well, that then how do we convert that to true engagement? The thing that a board of directors will do is say, oh, my gosh, derek brought ten of his friends. These ten friends now love the cancer society. That’s not true, they love america and they don’t love necessarily the rest, and so we have to be really cautious and we have always viewed, and we’ve put out some stuff there to say that you have to have a chain a drip campaign to engage them back in the cause because in art, as you said, connect involved, give we’ve skipped connect involved in pierre fund-raising and went directly to the give. Now sometimes we try to educate them as quick, but we haven’t had them act on behalf the cause except to give. So we’ve got to rework it a little bit more and get them to act now to the next stop. Okay, on one of our sponsors like to leave this in his rally bound, which does software for runs, walks, rides you say you say, what do you say? Runs races, walks, run, walk, race it’s old writes, is in there to get that right. We’re gonna work it all out, okay? After we are connected to involved. Now we get to giving and again generally, you know what? What do you see from the group that, um, in our population? Probably has the least available to give right cash wise haserot non-cash wise, i’m not and that’s not the only gift that people can give. Yeah, so i’m glad you mentioned that because i do want to make a statement that is we have looked at millennials, they view all the assets they have as valuable to the cause and that asset goes b the traditional form of philanthropy is time, talent, treasure? Well, i will have to come on here and say that there’s actually an expanded view for millennials, it is skill that they have it is the time that they have it is the money they have and the network they possess, their ability to tap into that network for you end too, in their voice, i mean, they’re considering all of those equal assets and opportunities for causes when it comes to giving, we have seen that a substantial amount of the giving efforts have involved peers, as i mentioned a little earlier, and what we do have, though, is this high level of transparency and expectation that there is some sort of feedback mechanism that will occur upon gift, and i’m not talking about the form letter that you get after you give right the twenty four hour rule that we want to try and teo, this is the so we asked you to give us ten dollars, to given at tau africa, you know, help somebody help in individual. Well, in thirty or forty days, i’m going to report back to you how that net actually had an impact on that individual and not waiting a long time on that reporting or that feedback, but actually bringing that shorter within the fifteen to forty five day mark is what we’re really looking at within fifteen days. Yeah, we or at least working on behalf of the cause there’s a great there’s a great cause. Col generosity water if you haven’t checked them out and online, they actually show the process they get through after they get your money. And and the greatest thing any organization can do is communicate along the way. You might not have impact for a full year. It doesn’t mean that you’re not working on their behalf and that’s what we forget and way think that the only thing our donors want to hear is when it’s completely job done, mission accomplished and we’re not we don’t need to go that george bush, i didn’t mean to do that make-a-wish on aircraft carrier mission come strike that job done! Wait that’s not the first report that doesn’t have to be the first report job done exactly so and this is where social media engagement is an incredible opportunity we can say all right, you know, after you give in fifteen days, i’m going to communicate with you and say you should check out our facebook, here’s here’s five images that are in our facebook environment right now from the people that were working with on your behalf if you want to continued updates head to our facebook environment because that’s where we can give that to, i would never use the word environment, but but you can see how we can use that social media engagement and say to our program, people, i need you to take three photos of the beneficiaries this week so we can continue to update our donors in real time of what’s going on and so forth and show the people that were actually helping in the cause. So so we have seen that in the use of annual every time we do the study is without i mean, it happens every time. It’s no annual reports, i don’t want that physical thing, it takes too long, and but we have to look at how millennials are doing things in general, in the consumer side and just in overall is that feedback loops in general have been much quicker. I mean, if you post something on facebook and nobody responds to it, it’s an immediate feedback like i shouldn’t opposed to that as well. So feedback overall in our society has been much quicker. I think the first time i took the g r e i it took me two months to get my my actual score. You had to wait in the mail, and then the last time i took it, which was a while ago, but they had it would tell you right there. You ready to find out your score? And of course, you freak out right in that moment thinking our life is going to be all dependent upon this next thing. Yeah. How important are, um, pictures, pictures and video? Very, very important imagery. And amy’s, they intend, has been doing some great studies around this to that imagery not only has hyre reaction posting commenting and engagement, then just text does to us well, in overlapping text upon imagery we saw really hyre amar’s high action or its high accelerates meaning either, like, retweeting, are commenting or posting upon that. Okay, excellent. Do you do you have time, tio, hang around? Absolutely. Absolutely. Amy, amy just gave me permission toe ask you to stay for for her part now she and i are going to be talking beyond millennials. I love because he’s great amy and i are friends, so okay, i sounded that way, okay? But we’re not going talking only about let millennials, but you’re certainly welcome to participating that part in any other part. But she not going to go a little further wonder teo thie other generations because there are other generations after that was but right now we happen to be talking about millennials. All right, here’s, what we’re going to do, sam, we’re going teo going toe. Go on, dh share, little sponsor information and then tony’s take two, and then amy will join us, and derek is gonna hang out cool. We are able to bring outstanding guests like derek and amy because there are companies that are helping me to produce the show me and everybody who works with me and you know that i am very good about e-giving credit at the end of the show to everybody, who’s, who’s a part of it on one of those sponsors is rally bound, and they’re the ones who i mentioned earlier with derek, they do software for rennes, runs, walks, rides, races, um, joe magee at rally bound will help you set up your campaign, and if you haven’t done this before, then he can be enormously helpful or if you’ve done it before, maybe you’ve used another platform and you not so thrilled or you’re not sure what might be out there for a different kind of peer-to-peer fund-raising management tool, then the best thing to do is talk to joe mcgee, and you could certainly you’ll find their product at rally bound dot com, but you’ll find joe magee at triple eight seven six seven nine o seven six for rally bound. And i’m also grateful that we are brought to you by t b r c cost recovery yourself. Rabinowitz is going to go over your past phone bills looking for errors, services you didn’t order well above market pricing, and when he finds those things which he does in ninety percent of the cases turns out phone phone companies are ah, not so careful, not so scrupulous about what they put on phone bills ninety percent of time he finds a mistake when he does he’s the one who talks to them, he picks up the phone, assuming you still have service and get your money back and you only pay him if in fact he does. So if he doesn’t get money back, you don’t owe him anything. Um, he was telling me about a non-profit where he had he had done some work for a company that maid apart for the mars rover and save them a ton of money. And then a couple of years later, someone from that company moved to a non-profit that woman brought him in, and he was able to find mistakes that equalled about three hundred dollars a month, and he went back three years, so over three hundred hours a month, three years, they’ve got a check for, like twelve thousand. Dollars so it works and you only pay him if he actually get you that money back. Theo sefer benowitz i’ve known him for about ten years and i’m grateful that he’s supporting the show you’ll find him at t brc dot com that’s tango bravo, romeo, charlie for those of you who know the phonetic alphabet that’s from my air force days or two. One two sixto before nine triple xero trc dot com tony’s take to my block this week is a giving tuesday roundup of round ups i have links to coverage from huffington post coverage. Um kruckel philanthropy forbes i have linked to an analysis from beth cantor and even a consultant who said his advice was avoid giving tuesday like the plague. So if you want to run the gamut of giving tuesday analyses and coverage, my blog’s is tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, thirteenth of december forty eighth show of the year. Holy cow! I don’t want to think about forty eighth show of the year. Aimee semple ward she is high there it’s not your turn to say hi yet. Wait! Jumping the gun on me because i want to give you the proper introduction. Come on, she’s with us from portland, oregon, and she’s, ceo of non-profit technology network and ten her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere her blog’s, amy, sample, war dot or ge on twitter she’s at amy rs ward, and in november, she was named a rising star by portland monthly magazine, so that on her facebook page she’s our own supernova. Amy amy sample ward, how are you doing? Amy, i’m doing okay. I’m actually working from home today to quarantine myself, so i don’t make the rest of the office sick, but other lives i am okay, alright. I’m sorry. You don’t feel good. Um, okay, it’s, one of those things where you know it’s the time of year where you feel fully functional but somehow are very naughty. So i have decided to not but that well, that yeah. Thank you. And thank you for that lovely imagery to it’s. A good thing, it’s. A good thing. This is radio. We’re not video streaming. I don’t know. With the imagery is in the mind. Images is quite sufficient. Okay, you were you were listening. I know. Did you think you wanted teo teo mention ofthe atop your head about millennial engagement? Lots of things i felt like i could have just jumped into that conversation. Okay, i want to see what happens when arika around, okay, so we can pick it up from where you guys were weaken, you know, i’m sure that you have some pieces that you want us to actually cover, but, you know, i think as a starting place the way that i normally talk about piela millennials or how to think about different generational groups with thinking of their advocacy campaigns or general engagements, you know, any anything for your organization? The easiest way i found to talk about the millennial group, which has a millennial? I think i and can talk about ourselves is, teo help people think about it in terms of millennials are kind of naturally community organizer, and when you think about it in that way, you don’t have to think of it. Is this like, you know, well, gosh, what would a millennial want in this campaign if you think of it from the place of you here’s a whole set of, uh, people? Who are naturally inclined to community organizing that a lot of what derek was hyre gliding really just falls into place when you think of anyone who the community organizer like trade, right? So they are at the ready to tap into a network of people they really want to get to be the person who’s connected to your cause, but is able to mobilize people, you know, to take some action. And at the end of the day, you’re probably the word invested in the relationship, not the people they’ve mobilized. You know, those people were there because of an action for this person, you know, is there because they want to be kind of they wanted they want to be the important valuable person that’s able to make action happens. You know, a lot of what derek said ten falls into that category, but i think that’s easier way instead of thinking, oh, gosh, there’s this whole, like bullet list of attributes of these millennials, right? I have to remember all this if you kind of think of it as that’s, a group of people twenty twenties, early thirties that are just naturally community organizer it’s it’s just easier. Wait a bundle it altogether. Derek natural community organizers. Hey, amy. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this generation has grown up with things like america or on teach for america and all these other incredible programs service learning, involvement and so on. And amy is exactly right. I mean, the goal of somebody to go out and say, i want to do good, and i just want to rally my friends around doing good is so high with the generation, and we can see that every time when somebody says they’re in whether it’s in social media are whether it’s through text or whether it’s just two interpersonal saying, i want to go do something good and here it is and will you come along and sort of naturally organized together, let’s, talk a little about something that i think derek mentioned. Amy, you and i are going to explore the other the other generations to ok, and derek right has to catch a plane so he’s got two minutes or just so let’s go to him first. The decline in facebook among millennials planning facebook users yeah, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s a lot of individuals, and i’d love to hear it, amy has the sand is there’s a lot of researchers that have some assumptions as to why that is occurring. Parents are on their other things it’s just grown up, but i don’t there’s nothing in definitive that says this is exactly why it’s happening, but i will say that there is a rise in the use of imagery overall in marketing and general communication and the ability for us to show visually a cz well, so we haven’t seen that as necessarily a bad it’s just a different environment, and we’ve seen the use of more imagery to just compel other people to get excited, involved or show things about themselves. On how how strong is this declines? It hasn’t been really incredibly bad, you know, it’s still facebook by far is still when we look at the last for in our studies from twenty ages twenty thirty two, that it’s still the number one, but okay, we’ve seen the other ones rise higher, and then facebook has done gone down a little bit on, especially when we’re talking about those lower rungs. The twenty is the early twenties, not necessarily in the hyre ends, okay? Excellent. All right, so i think we have to let you go, but i’ll listen to you because i want to hear it. Okay, listen, in the cab, another cab drive will be involved. You headed to la guardia? Yes. Okay. That’s the easiest one to get through. Derek feldman leads the research team on the millennial impact project ceo of achieve and i would say let’s engagement is most prevalent on social networks. You’ll find him at derek feldman, spelled with two ends on twitter. Derek, thanks so much. Take a real pleasure. Thank you. Okay. I mean, you’re stuck with just me. It was fun having a bit of ah, like relay hand over wei together. Now. Well, we’ll race to the finish was like those relay races. Yeah, and i and i have my my, my, i’m not going to say the word i was gonna say snotty, but i’m not a partner in the relay. What’s your sense of the declining number still very deep penetration, but declining usage of facebook among those in the low twenties. Yeah, to derek’s point like i agree that everyone is their own effort. Um oh, gosh, this is why it’s happening, i wouldn’t just because there could bring it up. You know, i would argue against the theory that, you know, young people don’t want to be on facebook now the parents are on their of all of the generation, you know, young people are very used to having privacy profiles because unlike many, many people who were, you know, already an adult, when they got on the internet for the first time or really started creating some sort of online persona, young people have been doing that there were six, you know, like they were used to having to fill out everything check how they were set up, and i wouldn’t say, you know, young people don’t want to be on there since their parents, they just, you know, how to block their parent’s home in a way that maybe their parents don’t know andi, but he knows the latest numbers at least that i’ve been looking at, and i’m happy to send you like a long list of links that maybe you could put upon the blonde tony for folks that are listening and want to go. Just read through a bunch of the latest numbers through different platforms firm, you know, it’s really showing twitter as that surprising place. So if you know young people aren’t adopting book, we’ll have adopted something, right? So what is that other thing? For the most part, it looks like it’s twitter on and with that and then a couple other newer tools that are emerging that we could talk about a little bit later and and what that says to me, when you think about, you know what, twitter is, how it works on some of these other newer platforms compared to facebook. Well, they’re just simpler, you know, like when was the last time you saw your facebook this morning? Yesterday something and you just there’s just so much going on and not in a oh, my friends are so busy kind away in a is a platform filled with things there’s ads and there’s pages and there’s people in there so much, chef, when when we see, you know, drop in this in this eighteen to thirty four category and they’re moving to twitter that says to me they just want something that’s lightweight, simple they can easily do from their mobile phones, you know, the percentage. Of users on their mobile phone, especially in this younger demographic, is extremely high, so i push you want something really easy to just open up on your phone? You know, send a message check who talked to you that new a direct message, you know, whatever, it it totally makes sense to me that that they’re moving to something that’s more streamlined. Okay, maybe i could get you to add that the list of research to the could you put that on the facebook page for us? Yeah, sure. Okay. That’s a better place. I think more people engage with facebook then, then the blogged once the show is over. Okay, thank you. Um, let’s, let’s. Move away from the millennials and move to the next generation you have. Ah, you have some preferred channels for our gen xers. Say, roughly ages thirty three to forty. Yeah, nothing really starts. You know, you still see pretty strong facebook numbers, but you also after you leave this eighteen thirty whatever number on get into that next generation, or even the next couple generations is when you also see lincoln azua latto hyre semper. Because these are people, you know, kind. Of firmly situated in their career and for many people in those generations where you’re maybe a little bit further from college or high school friends, you know, our people that maybe you live in us, you know, fun apartment building and it’s, a sitcom on beauty, i don’t know and you know, you’re in a place where really it’s so it’s, so rational connections that are your network, maybe with millennials where we’re saying no it’s their friends, that their trying to mobilize to participate in the campaign with them the next couple generations, they’re using tools like facebook and linkedin as really a professional place, you know, people, they know the ones that end of the conference or that, you know, they schnoll the product teo or whatever that is. Those other platforms have seen a lincoln is very much a social platform with updates and messages and all the rest, you know, it makes sense that facebook and lincoln pretty high there. Do we have numbers? Oh, are we? Let me ask, how do we measure usages? A like number of hours per week or number of hours per month on a different planet wasn’t michelle all of these different platforms are measuring things differently, of course, on dh, you know, i would say when and i’ll post latto these links so folks can go through and look at it with their own lens for maybe the ages of folks they’re they’re trying to engage with, but the thing that is really important to try and get teo not everyone makes it very easy to find is the difference between total registered users and act e-giving users that her fogging into that platform, at least, you know, warns a month or however they define active because, you know, there could be a hundred tons of people that had signed up, but i have never loved in. So are they really your user on that a tricky thing, especially in the larger platform to find how many of these people, you know, when they’re saying the billions of users, how many of them are using the platform vs have ever signed up? Okay, all right, we got to take a break for a couple minutes. Amy and i are we’ll continue talking about engaging by age, and we’ll continue on talking about the older generations, so hang in. There. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Shin are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz it’s, a conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping countries. 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I’m sorry, i have to keep it too good to live listener love, because i don’t know how to welcome you in sweden, tokyo and saitama, japan. Konnichiwa, amy, what what engagement ideas do you have for tapping gen x, knowing that they’re spending more time on linked in than people who are younger, and they’re also, but they’re also on facebook a good bit. So i really like when when you and eric were chatting before and he was saying you lied with what that cause actions could be right away, because because people want to in that millennial generation, actually try it on, like, great, let me share this petition and see if any of my friends we asked to it and that’s kind of their way of gauging, you know, how well that’s going to stick for me? Because taking that action and being part of the organization is really a relationship and not just that transactions when we think about that next couple generations up who are maybe more boat gets on lengthen and facebook, there’s there’s still an opportunity for sharing, but what they’re going to share maybe isn’t the same kind of lightweight action in this more, especially when you’re thinking of those platforms with a professional presence that content is more positioning the poster, the user and someone who’s either very well connected, you know, they know the people that wrote that log post, etcetera, or they’re well informed, so they’re the first one to know about that topic or, you know, the first one to maybe not. Even the first one, but the one who has the most insight on a news story or a report that was just helpless, etcetera. So as an organization, how you can support that by saying, oh, as far as our supporters of people who’ve taken action, etcetera, we want to be sure you’re in the loop with the latest information on this topic or, you know, whatever it is that they are inclined to share your information where maybe they don’t as millennials, they’re not looking for all the times actions to be promoting to their network and said they want then that show, you know, they are really on top of this topic they really know about this issue, you know, they’re on top of the news, giving them some sort of, you know, easy and regular way get that content and share it so that their position in their network as that you know, smart person, how is that done on linked in? If i if i see, say, slideshare on linkedin imbedded or video or something, how do i then share that within linked in? Can i can i do that? I attended where you see it? So lincoln has, you know, they have invented application, so so i can for temple on my linkedin page, anytime i ask something the slideshare it just automatically shows up there, you might see it, but that’s different than if i were to actually, like, post a link to it, where is more of us? I don’t know what phrase they use, but like a status update, you know, i’m actually posting it into the network instead of just having it show up on my own profile. No, but i think a lot of organizations are trying out having a page, having a group all the different kind of organizational presence he says in lincoln as ways to post that information. So the people who follow that pager part of that group are getting it, but then they can re purpose it in their own channels on their own profile, etcetera. So that would be something that would be worthwhile for an organisation to test whether they’re goingto embed something or make it a discussion topic with a link. Exactly. Ok, cool. Yeah, i’m actually i’m all right. Um, okay, just before we before we leave generation x, which you’re aspiring to. I don’t know how close you are to it. But you’re. You’ll get there. And then after that, we’re gonna move into my generation. So since we’re any, any, any last tip you wanna leave us for for generation x. No, but i would say, you know, at least your last point there about really testing things it’s important, especially with this your generation accident, i think the lost generation, where a lot of people within those age groups maybe feel more aligned with one of the other groups, either the ones you know, slightly older, slightly younger than them. And so, you know, the end of the day, we’re all beautiful, like humans, and we want to be treated, you know, like on individual, so don’t just say, like, squash while everybody on our facebook page is thirty eight, this is exactly how they’re going to respond to our content. You’re still gonna have to test it, and you’re gonna have to figure out and pay attention, you know, what’s working what isn’t? How do we better, you know, provide content to our supporters? Okay, let’s, let’s, talk about the boomers a little bit. What? What? What kind of what kind of penetration do you see him in the various platforms? You know, they’re pretty good penetration, i guess. But it’s not no it’s. Just not going to be a natural tendencies the way younger generations, you know, wouldn’t. Think twice about getting out. You know how many times i’m in a situation where there’s people of all different generations at a table, you know what, a conference for example, everyone’s talking about something? There’s a disagreement about that fact and everyone at the table who’s under thirty five immediately take out their smartphones like, well, let me just do a search and find the answer no, no problem and everyone else it’s over thirty five tables like, well, let’s, just keep talking about it. You know what? Just to have an argument about it until we reach our own conclusion and, you know, the other half the tables like, oh, no, down on wikipedia, here’s the answer we’re done. So even though they’re there are fairly good numbers of boomers on these different channels, it’s gonna have to be an intentional decision. You know, they’re probably going to choose facebook because they have friends and family on facebook or they’re going teo you, it means they’re going to choose something. Were there enough of their network is already there before they make that decision. So that’s, really generation that uc has the most, um, most impact based on how popular is tougher, you know, you don’t see a lot of rumors like out there adopting brand new social channels that no one else is on because they’re only doing it for the connections in their family, you know, they’re definitely the followers. They don’t need to be the first, you know, out on the front here of the internet, right? Do not early. Do not early adopters. Okay, right. I think we have our topics for for next time when you’re on in january, which will be, well, continue a little more with baby boomers. And then you have cem cem platforms for twenty fourteen that we want to look at. Yeah, definitely. Okay, uh, give me a thirty second style stop. Well, you know, here in oregon, it was on that usually cold last week. I don’t know how new york once it was actually unseasonably cold or just reasonably dinner. But in oregon, it was much colder than than usual and office suffered because it meant half of the heaters were, like, roaring and the other half kind of puttered out and gave up. So my style tips and this could be only for me and is the most practical thing ever on that is to organize my my sweaters and like part against etcetera. Sai how heavy they are. So i kept one in the office that was very heavy. And then i kept one in the car that was lighter so that i could determine as they went through my day, something that still matched but was different weights because it was so called and then so hot on ly from amy sample ward, thank you very much. Her blog’s amy sample board dot org’s and on twitter she’s at amy rs ward. Thank you very much, amy springstead elearning next week, it’s going to an archive broadcast? I couldn’t get anybody to commit for december twentieth, but we have over one hundred, seven hundred seventy shows to choose from exactly fact. Next week. Last week was one hundred seventy, so i will pick you a winner for next week’s archive broadcast were brought to you by rally bound dot com and t brc dot com good people, please talk to them. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam leave wits is a line producer, shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point. Oh, and there are producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules that cool music is by scott stein. I hope you’ll be cool, and you’ll be with me next. Friday went to two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com. E-giving didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get in. Are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sixty body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. 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