Tag Archives: Major Gifts

Connect With Your Planned Gift Donors

In talking to donors and potential donors to your Planned Giving fundraising program, it helps to be aware of the history and culture those folks grew up with in the mid to late 1900s. At least be curious about that period. Start with Abbott & Costello. 

 

Abbott & Costello’s “Who’s On First” 

Nonprofit Radio for September 30, 2016: Boost Revenue With Donor Surveys & Discovery Visits

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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John Haydon & Rachel Muir: Boost Revenue With Donor Surveys

John Haydon and Rachel Muir reveal how to smartly and effectively survey your donors to increase revenue and grow your major gift pipeline. John is the CEO of Inbound Zombie and Rachel is vice president of training at Pursuant. (Recorded at the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

Maria Semple: Discovery Visits

Maria Semple

These one-on-one meetings are critical to your prospect research. Maria Semple, our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder, makes sure you’re getting the most out of them. (Originally aired July 10, 2015)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with santa chromium if you joined us me with the mere notion that you missed today’s show boost revenue with donorsearch vase john hayden and rachel muir reveal how to smartly and effectively survey your donors to increase revenue and grow your major gift pipeline. John is the ceo of inbound zombie, and rachel is vice president of training at pursuant that was recorded at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and discovery visits thes one on one meetings are critical to your prospect research maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder make sure you’re getting the most out of them that originally aired on july tenth twenty fifteen tony take two twitter responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers for non-profits we be spelling dot com? Here are john hayden and rachel muir on boosting revenue with donorsearch vase welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Coverage of sixteen ntc it’s the non-profit technology conference with the convention center in san jose, california with me now are john hayden on rachel bure. John hayden is yeah dahna ceo founder. Easy everything of inbound zombie. And rachel bure is vice president of training at pursuing before we begin with john and rachel, you have to do our a swag item of the of the interview, which you may have noticed a big, big green glass from wind streams. And inside is a charging charging box so you can charge your charge your usb device using and then at the same time, have your drink from win streak. Preacher, would you have that swag pile? Please take the charger out before you drink. It worked in the foreground, foreground of our swag pile, if you please. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. All right. Rachel. John, your topic is how did boost revenue with donorsearch vase. I don’t think people think of boosting revenue with older surveys, but so that’s spell that misconception. John, how is it that donorsearch vase can be used to boost revenue? Well, thie idea is that the more you understand your donors the more they’re going to feel heard, right? And then the more that they’re understood and they feel heard and they’re connected to the organization them or they’re going to support the organization, so don’t donorsearch is a really about understanding people that support your organization. So it’s part of ah multi-channel engagement strategy. Yes, you could say that it’s fair to say, rachel, this is one of our channels in our multi-channel strategy absolutely and it’s a really great tool for understanding what your donor’s interests are. So then you could target your appeals based on this interest, and you can talk to your donors about the one program that they care about and not the nine programs they don’t care about you okay? I don’t think i don’t think many people are thinking about surveys as a channel. I think they’re thinking about twitter and facebook and instagram as their channels, not a servant, all right? Yeah, i wouldn’t i wouldn’t say this survey zahra channel, i would say that surveys are almost like an approach, you know, too sir, because you could survey people on twitter you could survey people on facebook you could survey people with a surveymonkey app you khun survey people in a number of ways so it’s more like, you know, get feedback from donors, you know, approach to a channel. Yeah, exactly approach to a channel to a strategy for an engagement purpose. Exactly. Yes, i couldn’t have said it better. I couldn’t have said it worse. Okay, so let’s dive into this, you have some i can t example, i don’t feel like starting with the examples because then you have some do’s and don’ts, which we’ll get to. But you have some examples to share of good donorsearch practices. Rachel sure, yeah, we shared a example in oven online donorsearch ve in our session and it was a short six question survey that really focused on identifying number one. What donors communication preferences are how we doing on communicating with they are communicating to little just write too much. What? What air? The beneficiary preferences the donor has who does it don’t care about of all the target populations that the non-profit serves which one interest the donor the most some questions about you know what? What programs do they care about the most? Is that just some great basic? Questions that you can use to ask your donors and these were important because that was six question, yeah, six question, okay, you only important because these are all really important questions because donors give for their reasons, not ours, and the more and one of the points that john and i made in our session is, the more you find out you’re you’ve gotto ask when you ask these questions, you’ve got to be prepared to use them to use what you learned and then honor your donor’s preferences that they tell you i want to hear from you more, or i want to hear from you less or i want hear about this book, i’ve got to be prepared to be able to deliver on that so that you’re honoring their preferences. You’ve taken the time to find out, and you’re going toe near next up, it’s going to deliver on it. Okay, so we’ve got a preserve these responses not just use the to analyse survey, and then we get it not before. Yeah, we’ve got to make good on it and that’s what we want to because we want to be talking about what they care. About the more we talk to them about what i care about, where they’re going to give, the longer they’re going to stay with us, jon, otherwise, people are gonna feel unheard, yeah, totems of serving me, if you’re not going toe honor what i asked you to do. Exactly, yeah, okay, you got another, i can’t example for us, john, i can’t example, i’m only quoting from your text here, so is this text fortified? I persisted, it’s, somebody else wrote it. I don’t know what i doubt that, you know, you have no, it turns to blame too exuberant. Okay, you got some other examples. I can’t hear otherwise. Good serve, good serve a example. No. You know, we should see we shared another video example of using video. Yeah. Video. Yes. Sorry. I thought we were in this session. I was definitely the sessions that work you did? I did provoc way. So we shared a great example of using video using video to really take the donor right into the action. Take them right there in the field, allow them to release, give them an immersive experience where they can experience the donor’s work and then use that to open up a conversation with, um, wade love to talk to you. We want to learn more about what inspired you to give. We’d love to talk about what we’re doing. We want to do so respectfully if you’d like to hear from us, just click this button and we’ll set up a visit. So it’s a great way to have your donor raise their hand on their own and find out who wants to have a deeper relationship with you. Yes. Okay. It’s a little more about what was the content of that video? The video example that we shared was a great video for operation smile and it really took the viewer. First hand into the operating room, seeing these surgeries and seeing how marchenese cleft palate surgery’s how, how they impacted these families and these communities, and they heard stories from the program officers they heard stories from donors, doctors from doctors from the founder of the organization and the founder of the organization has a very respectful called action at the end where he says we’d love to hear from you. We want to do so respectfully, we’d love to hear your hopes would love to hear your wishes. Wait, if you’d like for us to call you and set up a visit, just click this button so it’s a really nice way using the emails since the donorsearch to a landing page with personalized you were all so they could track how the if the donor watches the video, how long they watch it for, and then invite the donor to respond and raise their hand if they’d like to have a visit. So it’s another tool to learn more about a donor’s interest and hopefully set up a visit. Okay, okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna john, i’ll give you a chance to rehabilitate. Duitz. I was just there for my looks and that’s it. You could say what not to ask, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you, rachel. Yeah, i was gonna get do’s don’ts. Thank you, teo. Grayce you think? Well, i’m talking, john, you want to scrap something? Yeah, there you go, that would help them if they want to sign. You know, i don’t know, i okay, let’s, move. Yes, duitz a note. Don’t you ask them how much they recently gave? Don’t ask them what they gave and these air no nose, because you should know this information, right? So if you ask them that right away out of the gate, they say, wow, what? What if it’s an anonymous server or we’re not, we’re not we don’t like anonymous service. No, we can’t, because we’re supposed to be a hundred preferences. They were not so from the kate we’re not talking about no, no, no, no. Yeah, and s so were were, you know, again the purpose of the surveys to understand the donor. So we’re collecting this information putting into the donor database so that we can follow up with appropriate communication. So if someone says, hey, i like cats versus dogs for an animal shelter. They’re going to get communication that’s about dogs, here’s, harold, the dogs that were saving and here’s what you can do to help change the life in a dog. So that’s, really, the purpose is to try and taylor the communication and connect the have basically have the donor have a voice in the in the cause. Okay, i understand. Rachel’s getting the pen out of swag out chili that’s. Okay. I mean, john is squeezing the clients, just ball. I’m a little nervous. Yeah. That’s. Okay, rachel got tomato, but i know you’re nervous because you’re doing so badly. I know he’s doing our angel holding its made of which is not squeezing she’s selling. Yeah, i would say. Okay, here’s, some morning lol i was going to give you some dues. Don’t don’t use complicated phd level language don’t use complicated language keep it short keep it simple sixth grade reading level literally experience meeting you wanted to be don’t use have it be all text used highly visualized examples that fit in with the organization’s mission think. Think of a buzzfeed stall quiz that you might take on facebook. Like what? Eighties band and my duran duran psychedelic furs, thie cures you know you you just see the images and you know how you’re going to vote. You barely even have to read the text. You wanna make it as easy for them to read is easy for them to do is possible. Okay. Okay. Really? Sixth grade level. All right. Any other don’t you don’t don’t use don’t send people to a website that looks horrible on a mobile device where they have to zoom in and look at the survey in order to fill it out. Don’t ask people twenty questions be very careful what you’re asking and the number of questions you know, twenty years too long twenties way too long is there arrange five or six? If you’re doing a survey to your whole group, just keep it short and simple. Five or six? Yeah, and i would say, don’t skimp on this subject line put as much thought into this subject line as you do your survey questions so that you get people to open it. We’ll talk about the subject line of the invitation email. Exactly. Put a lot of thought into maybe a test. Your subject line. Okay, so easy to do now we all should be tested. That’s. True. Yeah, i say be testing is like it’s. Like letting your donor’s vote on subject line that they like the best and then using that to send out to all the other people. It’s, basically, you know, having them help you write the email. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That was a good one. Good response. Join arms. I don’t mean the beginning of this catching ourselves ability, working bilich. Like getting out of prison. You were. Seriously, you’re not serious, man. Like a parole officer. You’re like the worst parole officer. You’re much better one. I’m much better on twitter, facebook way we’ve never met trump. I invite you you all this time, i’ve been holding you at bay. Yeah, exactly welcoming, but probably yeah. Okay hyre be horse that’s. Great, man. You’re a good sport. Yeah, i’m a good sport. Absolutely. You beat the crap out of you later on before you go. I am in a police state. Okay. Kruckel with affiliate. I will not oppcoll hyre all right. All right. We’ve exhausted. Don’t let’s. Look let’s. Focus on the positive. Yes. Do. Alright. Well, rachel, you hit some of that. You make it simple. Very visual, right? Visual, other deuce, other good practices. I would say. Try to integrate, serving your donors in multiple avenues. You know, you can send them a donorsearch juche. Khun, ask them questions after they you know, we talked about having just a comment box. What inspired you to make this gift on your donation form after they get your newsletter after an event after the gala, you know? There, there. Are multiple touchpoint where you can solicit feedback from your donor’s there’s a reason why you can’t go to old navy that buy something for my twins without me getting a survey about the experience and satisfactions and number one driver dahna loyalty. So think of other ways that you console is thatyou’re dahna speed back way also talked about donorsearch coll’s, which is kind of interesting. So when you think surveys right, you think, oh, the internet, we gotta use the website and all that stuff, but donorsearch coll’s kind of old school. You get five or six donors in a room, you know, very kind of, i guess, you know, committed long term donors. Maybe, you know, from different, maybe maybe a volunteer. Maybe a donor could just be a virtual room. It could be, you know, a real impersonal world. Yes. You meet them in person and you ask them questions. You know what made you decide it? Initially support the organization. You know what? You know what? What kind of stories really get you amped up? You know why? Why do you continue to support the organization and just have that open dialogue in the small? Group and i think often that khun b, that dialogue can be the kind of source to create the online survey, because then we know well what you know, when you start with an online survey, you might be asking, well, what do we even start with? But maybe the donorsearch kel is a good place to start, find out what are the key kind of issues or what the key preferences and then sussed that out throughout the throughout the database. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yep, okay, are there certain groups of donors that air better to try to engage in a survey than others like sustainers vs strictly annual donors or hyre plant e-giving donors vs others durney any distinctions across types of donors that we’re talking with or dealing with? That’s a great question, i would say surveys air really great for all your donors and it’s an opportunity for you to be able to identify who you’re sustainers prospects are and who playing, giving prospects are and really move those people from the annual fund up because you cared enough tto learn about what they care about, and you’re going to deliver on it so you’ve got you’ve increased your chances of deepening that relationship and deepening their involvement with the organization by asking them the survey because donors give for their reasons, not ours and it’s up to us to figure out what they are. I see a lot of fundraisers really trying to read their donors minds and wasting a lot of time and, you know, i like to say ask more questions, read les minds there’s someone it’s, it’s totally appropriate to say how do you like to be invited to make a gift? That’s a very respectful way to find out more about how someone does like to be invited to make a gift, and these are all you don’t have to try to read their minds. You can ask them these questions and learn a lot build a relationship in the process i can think of to gary with one music suggested. How do you like to be asked? How often? How often should we be approaching? Use is two or three times per year appropriate five times one time that’s a great example. We actually talked about that, you know you’re giving donors choice when you do that and that. That’s giving them control and that’s a really big part of them deepening their engagement with you. They want to have that control. We’ve got one study where an organization raised fifty percent more fifty percent more at their year and appeal because they gave those donors those choices win, do you? When do you want to hear from us? When do you want us to ask? How often do you want us to ask? They first proved the value of their communications and that’s something i would caution anyone to first do you know if if the first time you make a gift? If i ask you how much how often you won’t hear from me, you might say, not very much because you don’t know me yet, but once i proven the value of the communications and you do know and the donor doesn’t know the organization it’s really great to ask those questions. That’s a really great point. Thank you. Like i scored warning sixteen minutes and forty seconds. All right, john, you want a chance? A chance of what? Score a point? Okay asked me a question we’re talking about. Good, good. Good news. No, mistress. Yeah, eso so keep the language simple, very simple and use their words right don’t use any jargon that you might throw around in the, you know, internal meetings, use their words on dh focus a lot on visuals, actually, visuals drop people in the video is a great example. And actually, that video is very powerful because and the organization was alt-right smile training, you know, is it was operation smile operation, smile. Yeah, it was great. I mean, when the video was playing during our first session, i was kind of had tears in my eyes, you know? So that emotion drives the person take action, right? So at the end, you know, hey, tell us what we can do or contact us. We want to take the next step with you, that person probably more likely to take that action because that emotion, right? So i think that’s that’s really key is to try two focus on drawing people in emotionally and and appeal to that because that’s going to drive the action and there’s something like logic will logic drives a conclusion. So a logical solicitation koegler appeal, logical appeal drives a conclusion. An emotional appeal. Drives a response. Action? Exactly. Exactly. That’s crazy. You weren’t ten points to that. I love it. That was brilliant. No one gave you the authority to assess points. There’s a hostess that just here. You see the signs? Yes. Okay. Tony martignetti okay, he’s putting you in this company. I’m being put in my space and i think i’m being hard. I think john hayden may never come back co-branded before so yeah, people will google me at least. Who is this guy? John hayden he’s having a total failure on this video? Shit. You don’t even mention it. A credential here that you’re exactly facebook marketing for dummies proof that i am a dummy proof facebook marketing for demolition take himself too seriously and not at all. Okay. Secrets your favorite for-profit brands used to build loyalty let’s, start revealing some of some of these for-profit secrets. Well, they ask, i mean you you can hardly buy anything or do anything without being asked about your experience, right? I mentioned like the survey over the dressing rooms. I was the lighting and and they, you know, the best time to build on a great experience or fix a negative one is in the moment that it happened. And that’s why? Surveys are so great if you ask people honestly, you get a chance to interact in that experience before that donor becomes a lapsed owner and that’s. Why it’s great to be soliciting feedback often, often often and immediate. Yeah, depending on the engagement, right, depending on what that engagement was. Okay, okay. That’s a good one. Yeah, and actually, someone has a bad experience, you know, they might wait. One the question we asked to us. Have you ever had a bad haircut? You know? So you’re not going to tell your hair and i don’t. I don’t know if i’d have been here cut or not. Probably not right now, but, you know, if you have a bad haircut apparently, according to people i know if you have a bad haircut, you’re going to tell your friends, you know, whatever you do, don’t go to the hairdresser, but you’re not gonna tell the hairdresser, right? So it’s important to listen on follow-up and but but just being heard can often turn things around, and i think that way refer to the recovery paradox. Yeah, this is known in the for-profit sector. Is this service recovery paradox? Yep, service recovery so it says it says that if you do something really awful and it’s, someone has an awful customer experience if they feel heard, they are more likely. Teo, you know, support, you are loyal, but they’re going to be more loyal then if they never had a complaint in the first place and you don’t even have to fix the problem. That’s the good thing you don’t have to listen to it. Yeah, really? That’s the that’s? Why it’s a paradox like you would think if someone has negatives, something negative to say about your you know, organization or your business, you know, you you have to fix it. We gotta change this, but not necessarily you have to listen, something’s, you obviously can’t change, right? But just giving that person the opportunity to say how they feel and be heard. Then they say, wow, of all the brands of all the retailers of all the non-profits i sport, i feel hurt by these guys. Now they’re not doing everything i like, but i really liked them so that loyalty increases universes. The defensive, you know. Blaming the victim response? Yeah. Service. Yeah, exactly. And again, the bad haircut. Right? So if you don’t listen to them that person’s out there on the street telling their friends, hey, you know, whatever you do, don’t support these guys because they’re kind of, you know, not only did they do it wrong, but they don’t want to hear what i have to say. Also, you don’t want that on the street. Your customer donorsearch taking the time to share their opening up to you. If they didn’t care about you, they wouldn’t. They wouldn’t bother wait. They’re in their mind. They would waste a time sharing this bad if you are. Yeah, this person cares enough to tell. And eventually we all heard that that will increase their loyalty. That’s the parent? Okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got a couple more minutes together. What else? What else can we do? You have to depart. Rachel it’s. Okay, just you don’t have to do it silently. I’m going to turn off your mike so you don’t make a lot of noise. You’ll wake latto by rachel buy-in right now you’re gonna leave me with the, uh, heimans lackluster way. Go. Alright, let’s, finish this up. Tony that’s. So that’s. Rachel, you’re vice president of training at pursuing thank you, rachel. Thanks, rachel. Okay, john. All right. Great. So i hope that i just said we have a couple of minutes left, so don’t disappoint. Good. Okay. What? What else? What else is gonna be covered in this topic, or or what else was covered in? Well, i think, you know, i think i talked about the thing that we’ve tried to impress people with. The donor survey is not just a survey that you do once a year, once a quarter, but it’s almost like a mindset of creating upper every opportunity to follow up with the donor and listen to them. So, for example, we talked about when someone makes a first time donation, right? That’s a big deal. That’s. A pretty big deal. Hey! Wow, you you gave us money. Don’t! Why did you know what was what made you decide to do that? Someone gives a second time, right? If they give once that’s that’s great. But if they give a second time, it’s almost a miracle. So wow! What did we what are we doing? That drove you back to us twice reinforced the catch of a miracle. That is because we have a seventy percent donor attrition problem across non-profits in the u s absolute we’re losing seventy percent of our donors each year yet so it’s quite a big deal when somebody gives you that second? Absolutely. And then and then, of course, monthly, right? If someone says, hey, i gave once or twice here and there, but now i want to commit to a monthly program, right? I want to commit to that. Wow, you did that other yeah. So obviously these follow-up these donor-centric questions going different for each of the situations right on then also, you know, even on a donation form, having, like rachel said an open box that said, if you wanted, you know, if you have anything to tell us anything you want to share with us about why you’re supporting us, just type it in right here, just having this attitude of kind of b, you know, having an ear and being open there, listening to people and giving people opportunities to share how they feel, you know, even on, you know, i wrote facebook marketing for dummies and i’m always telling people yes, there’s facebook insights, you can look at all the data but read the comments on the posts, right? That’s, where you get all this really incredible personal stories, people sharing personal stories, what they think about certain issues, how they and you and also you learn their language, right? How are they talking about the cause we think we talked about has a, you know, communications person at a non-profit, you know, sometimes they get into jargon or talking about a cause in a certain way of thinking, they have to educate donors, but, you know, by reading comments really listen to donorsearch kind of understand their language, how they’re talking about it using their words, you know, okay, yeah, cool john all right, was that i think that’s a great rap, all right? Because i was so harsh to you. Yeah, i’ll give you a shout out. You should be following john hayden on twitter he’s at john hey, because he is very good who does have a lot of good content and it’s not only about facebook, email anything put candy, you know, five tips five think you sort of known for five of these seven of these quick tips very tactical there’s that value yet. But you also go deeper to oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, and i’ve weekly webinars i do free webinars called the hump day coffee break and it’s just, you know, people show up, look at wednesday’s eleven and, you know, have a cup coffee, learned something and leave and that’s it, you know? So yeah. So i feel like i told you that. Great. We’ll let you have it. Thank you. Well, thank you for the opportunity. Really do appreciate it. And it was fun. I have very thick skin, so i had a great time. Honestly, tell your friends about not probably. I do. Do i tweet about it? I know you tweet about it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. John hayden, he’s he’s. Everything around inbound zombie. They do. Marketing consultant. Exactly. Thank you. Took it. And you are listening and viewing tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference wrapping day one with john hayden and rachel muir. Or we’ll be back on day two. Of course, on the day three stay with us. Discovery visits. We have maria. Simple coming up first pursuant you know them, they have fund-raising management tools that are ideal for small and midsize shops perfect for our listeners. They fill your potential donor pipeline that keep your fund-raising on task, time against goal and all the individual fund-raising task day after day, week after week that you need to track, they’ll keep you managing those making sure that your time is is probably focused. So you’re meeting goal pursuant dot com we’d be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising this is not your mother’s spelling bee, not even the ones from seventh grade there’s too much fun, they’re enormously interactive, including dancing and there’s also stand up comedy and the comics i’ve seen are quite funny live music too. Facilitate that dancing note there’s no deejay thing here is live music so you got a concert you get stand up comedy there’s dancing fund-raising, of course, and they squeeze the spelling bee in there too. I love what they’re all about it’s really very cool, it’s. Very different. They have a video that shows it all at we b e spelling dot com now tony steak too. Meet me on twitter i love i have a lot of fun on twitter. Even people cite that hundred forty character limitation, but that’s nonsense because if if the conversation is getting detailed, you go into direct messages. And if you if you want to keep it public, then you just do multiple one hundred forty character messages. So, uh, seems kinda old to be hope you not put off by one hundred forty characters. It’s fun, you know, it’s it’s immediate. Um, i get a lot of guests that way. I get a lot of listeners of the weak that way. Twitter’s very cool. So if you’re not following, you could check me out at tony martignetti be grateful as i always am. If you re tweet about the show talking about the show, let your followers let your network know that you’re into non-profit radio and, uh, yeah, check me out. Sabelo please say hello on twitter that’s tony’s take two it’s just that simple live listener love it’s got to go out you know, it’s coming gratitude, gratitude and love to all our live listeners whatever city, state country you are in your listening now and i appreciate it live love to you i will spare you the diatribe about then versus now, when we’re pre recorded this week podcast pleasantries, they go out right after the live love they go pleasantries to our many, many podcast listeners are lots of different platforms for podcast listeners. There’s still that one in germany hanging in there we get like thirty or forty hits ah month from his podcast dot d i think, but itunes the vast, vast majority stitcher number two platform and then there’s like player dot fm and pod bay and podcast and smaller ones. But whatever platform you’re getting, the the the show from pleasantries to you and our affiliate affections right on the heels of the podcast pleasantries i know where platforms you’re getting it from our am and fm affiliate stations throughout the country and i am grateful to you affections to the many affiliate listeners on stations all around the country. Here’s maria simple originally from the july tenth show last year on discovery visits you also know maria simple she’s, the prospect finder, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best. Donor prospects now she’s on a diet of dirt cheap and free. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple welcome back, maria maria so i gave the screen here. How are you? Where you been? What’s going on there? What do you think? That’s? Too much that’s too much. I had myself on mute while you were doing on minute announcements there. Sorry about that. Um, i’m glad you’re with me. Welcome back. Absolutely. Thank you. Pleasure. We’re talking about discovery visits today. These, uh, he’s let’s define a discovery visit. And then once you explain why you think they’re so critical to prospect research, well, you know, as prospect researchers, unfortunately, we don’t have access to every little piece of information that would be useful for you. As you’re thinking about cultivating or soliciting someone so actually sitting down face to face with a donor is going to yield so much insight about what motivates them, why they love your organization and potentially yield larger gifts for you down the road. I blogged this a while ago, and it may be one of the first times that you and i met online because you commented on it. But i don’t think you were on this show at this point, but i blogged the value of face-to-face meetings, and i was not diminishing prospect research online and all through all the resource is that you and i have talked about from chambers of commerce and libraries toe online resource is wasn’t diminishing those, but yeah, the value that you get from having lunch with someone i happen to like doing it over meals, but whether it’s over meals or a meeting in their office or a site visit to your place there’s going be great. Um, you just pick up so much just by talking to somebody for for an hour? Yeah, yeah, and and definitely even in the body language alone. So if you start steering that conversation in a certain direction and you see people getting uncomfortable or fidgety or ah, in the opposite way, if maybe they start leaning in and leaning forward and looking like they’re really engaged with with what you’re talking about, perhaps a new program that you’re looking toe launch and get funded, all of that can yield so much great information for you. Sometimes it could be a little awkward. You hear things that you, you’re not sure how to document, and we’ll talk about the importance of doing that, like, you know, they don’t really like the ceo or your boss, you know, are there glad that you’re at the lunch with them and not this other gift officer? Yeah, and you do have to be careful about that. How you document that? Because, you know, a donor does have the ability to walk into your organisation at any time and say, let me see what donorsearch crowds you have on me. So you think you would want to document it in as a subject in an objective manner i should say objectively think of yourself as a a nen vested gate of reporter, right? When you’re trying to write down what the comments are so you might, you know, just right. You know, they did not seem particularly interested in the new x y z program and period end of story. Now we’re talking about the documentation it’s critical to save this in your hopefully you have a c r m database, right? A donor database cr m someplace. This has tio this information, you know, it’s what? We call, i guess, institutional memory, right? And you’re not going to put me in jargon jail for that? Are, you know, that’s a pretty straightforward one, okay, i’m enjoying for well, if if you as a development officer or is an executive director, sit down and have a conversation with someone and then you decide to leave the organization a year later. Ah, and then the new person takes over and goes in and has a visit with this long time donor sort of starts asking that same set of questions that donor’s going to kind of look at him like, don’t you already know this? Because i’ve already talked to your predecessor about what my interests were, etcetera. So you really do need to make sure that you are taking, you know, the time and it’s time well worth, you know, spent just documenting what happened during the conversation. What were the critical point? What were the things that need to be followed up on? You know, maybe it’s a timing issue. Maybe they say, well, you know what? This is a really bad time for my family right now, but in two years we feel that our finances will be in a different situation, you’ve got to get that documented and that’s an ideal example of one of the many, many things that you’ll find out from talking to somebody that you’ll never find online or any other resource is i don’t lose its talking, you gotta you gotta drop people out and and they love your work, otherwise they wouldn’t be meeting with you, so they’re happy to talk about what it is they love how, how their situation can impact your organization. I mean, positively or negatively, you know, like you’re saying, this is not a good time for us, you know, we just had a downturn in my business or from death in the family or, you know, whatever i mean stuff you’re not going to find out anywhere else than talking to people, you’re absolutely right. And, you know, one of the interesting things too, is you sometimes when i’m having conversations with with a non-profit maybe it a networking event or at a conference or something, and i’ll last generally how is your fund-raising going and then steer the conversation towards you know well, you know, when was the last time you had a chance to meet with who you would consider to be your top ten donors, and they kind of look at you like, uh, am i supposed to be regularly meeting with on donors? Oh, boy, yeah. That’s ah that’s yeah, that’s where the person in charge of development needs to be stewarding and managing up the, you know, the sea level people and that maybe that’s only one person may be the ceo is executive director is all there is but that, you know, yeah, yeah, you’ve got to be managing up and making sure that these relationships are nurtured with your your most important donors. You’re most important volunteers as well. Yeah, and if you don’t have the time to do it as a staff member, get your board involved. This is a perfect role for a board to get involved in. Even your board members who say, i hate to ask for money. I’ll do anything for this organization just don’t make me ask for money and it’s so simple for them to just go in and have it really a conversation you know you can provide them with, you know, prompt them with a list. Of questions that they might consider asking this individual, but it really is a conversation all about discovering what is this donor-centric about why are they giving any money to you at all when you know, when did they start? And, you know, where do they see themselves going with your organization? As a consultant, i do hardly and, you know, i don’t i don’t meet with donors and potential donors alone ever and very few of the visits that i am on our discovery visits, you know, where we don’t know the person all that well, but when i was a director of planned giving at a couple of colleges, i should do these all the time, and i remember my head’s spinning with oh, i don’t remember that, but i’m trying to stay in the conversation, too, but you can’t take notes while you’re having lunch, but i remember my head swimming over my gosh, i can’t remember that and that. Oh, and this news about his sister and that relationship, you know? Oh, you know, but there’s so much too, and you get back to the office and you just have to spill it all out and i agree with you, i usedto have ah, client, who said never write anything about someone potential donor or donor at anybody boardmember that you wouldn’t want them to read basically the same standard you had when you said someone could come in the office any time and ask what you have on them. That’s fine, you know, today with with technology having advanced right, i’m hoping that people who were in those positions that you were holding at that time in the plan giving departments and and so forth are using their smartphones and the recording feature not to record the conversation, but afterward, once the meeting has ended and you’re getting back into your car or getting to a quiet place, you know, in, you know, a different space or something like that, just data dump it right in by voice because you can speak a lot faster. Most people can speak much faster than they can write or type, so why not just get it in that way? And then if if you needed to, you know, use a transcription service of some sort to then get it into a print format and then edited from there. I think you know, that could be a particularly great way to use technology. Yeah, great. Cool tip. I like that. You’re right. You can dump into a voice memo. Excellent. I also like your idea of using board members for this purpose idea. We’ve we’ve talked about it, but good many times, but good to mention that also, this is ideal for board members for organizations that have a prospect research person. Do you think that these contact well, i’m going to call them contact report? Because as we used to call them at the colleges, should they flow through the prospect researcher? Or should they go right into the c r, m database and then it’s a prospect researchers job follow-up and read them how does? Because the prospect researcher is the the focal point of a lot of this, the prospect activity? How should this info get to the to that person? Well, you know, it really again depends on the size of the department and the type of cr m that you’re using and who has access to it because some will allow you no board members to have access and others won’t. So then clearly if it’s your boardmember that needs to be providing the information in many cases, they’re not going to have access two, uh, to that database, so don’t need to get it to that prospect. Researcher some other way. If it is ah development officer who does have access to the database. And i do recommend that they inserted directly themselves. If it’s a small organization, if it’s a larger organization with multi level, then you know you would want to make sure that there are certain procedures in place for me. No, but certainly the prospect researcher in some way, shape or form should be alerted that there’s been an update to that record in case there’s, you know any additional updated information that they need to provide? Yeah, right. It could be a simple is ah, niu ah, new email address or you are. Whatever new relationship. Ah, i know. In the in the colleges where i worked which bigger organizations, they the prospect researcher was the like. I said the focal point, and they would pull out something from a prospect research report that would say, oh, you know i should. This is consistent with this other contact report that i read for this other person done by a different gift officer. And these two need to be talking to each other for whatever reason, that was always that was always the done through. The prospect researcher i don’t know is that it makes sense to you. Yeah, yeah, it does. Absolutely. And i can tell you that, you know, having attended various conferences in the past that are, you know, attended by prospect researchers. They would love to be on every one of these donordigital covering visits, making sure that the right questions get asked and so forth. Okay, so this should be from training there, maybe maybe training the gift officers by the prospect researcher. When again, when it’s an organization that has prospect research. I understand a lot of listeners organizations problem may not. But if you do, should there be some training that the prospect researcher was doing for the gift officers? Yeah, absolutely. There should be some sort of training and in terms of not only what they confined online, if they needed to find some information quickly. What are some of the go to resource is when they’re out on the road? Etcetera. But also, you know what air the typical questions you should be sitting down and asking of every single donor and prospect and, you know, ah, good development officer, this should really be intuitive and second nature for them. Um, but if there’s somebody fairly new in the role, or if it’s an executive director who is, you know, that that’s it that’s the only person there is no development officer on, perhaps they’ve been so very used to running an organization and and the day to day management of the organization that they really haven’t gone down the road of of getting trained on, you know how to ask the right questions to elicit the responses we need to move this prospect forward. We’re gonna go out for a break. Marie and i will keep talking about this a little bit. And then she also has, um, unconference dates coming up this summer. That would be valuable for your prospects, research or stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy, tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Got more live listeners in san francisco, california live love going out to there now podcast listeners and affiliate listeners. Did you think i forgot? How how could you live? Listener love always is accompanied by podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections very grateful to all the podcast listeners wherever, whatever device, whatever you’re doing, i love having you with us and all those affiliate listeners in the many stations across the country affections out too. Our am and fm affiliate listeners perish the thought that i would forget podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections. Maria, any last thoughts you want to leave us with on discovery visits and before we move teo unconference ideas? Well, you know, really, just to figure out what what is a donor’s? Why, right? That that’s, what you’re looking to get to understanding there, why to the heart of why they’re investing in your organization and, you know, try and use that language when you’re speaking with them, you know, why are you investing in us? What? What motivates you to continue supporting us? What do you like best about our non-profit? And you know what? Can we actually improve? So try and really elicit some good conversation from them and, you know, you’ve probably heard that old adage tony asked them for money and they’ll they’ll offer you advice and asked him for advice, and they’ll offer you some money. So, you know, it’s a great way to get people engaged in your organization, so don’t be afraid to start those conversations, even if somebody proposes something or says something a little bit on the negative side, take it as constructive criticism and look for areas of improvement. Yeah, you’ve got to hear the negative and a lot of what you’re what you’re suggesting comes out organically, you know? I mean, the person knows that you’re there to talk about the organization, you know, they’re talking about politics or hopefully you keep politics off the table. I always think that’s a bad idea for these kinds of visits, but yeah, they’re talking about the organization that’s, what the two of you have in common, so, you know, a lot of that stuff just gets elicited. I love this program, or i didn’t understand this or i didn’t know you’re doing this thing, but i just read about it in the newsletter, and you know that. Stuff. I mean, you’re right. Ask if it’s not coming out, but a lot of times, it just happens organically because right that’s what you have in common. That’s what? You share, right? Right. All right. So ah, you gots unconference ideas for us. Prospect. Researchers like to meet during the summer. Yeah, absolutely. So the biggie for prospect researchers is the international conference that happens every summer for apra, which is the association of professional researchers for advancement. And this year the conference takes place in new orleans, metoo and it’s going to be july twenty second to the twenty fifth, and they actually also have ah, a new researchers symposium as part of that, uh, they have a full day symposium just for new researchers. So this is a great way to get i think, you know, a full day in, um ah, dedicated to a newbie. And, you know, if you’re just getting your feet wet in this whole thing about prospect research, that might be something well worth while attending. Are you going to the international conference? I will not be going this year. I’m actually attending other conferences, but, you know, this one is definitely if you’re thinking about prospect researchers, this really is the one to consider. Um, you know, there are fall conferences that, you know, we just missed a few conferences that are more regional. So, like in new england, there’s, an organization called nedra, the new england development research association, they they had a conference in april, it was not researchers let’s not look okay, let’s not look backwards, let’s go forwards, but but the good thing about it is that some of those organizations will still put the presentation’s in powerpoint on the website so still perhaps worth just checking into even if you book market for next year. If you’re in those regions, certainly something to think about seeing what what have they shared from the past conference? Cause you might be able to just do a little, you know, your own online learning are these all apra chapters that we’re talking about? Yeah, yeah, they really are there. They’re more regionalized chapters of research association years ago, i spoke a couple of apra chapters, i think in new york and new jersey years ago, back when i know i’m not even sure i was consulting at the time. Maybe more than twelve years ago, but glad they’re still around. Okay, what else? What else you got besides the international? Also coming up in arizona? There’s going to be a false symposium on the topic of campaigns and that’s going to be held november fifth through the sixth in tempe, arizona. So that might be one to consider. And also in california, they have several events going on. The california advancement researchers association have several things on their website, so i’d be glad to share some of these links on your facebook page, if you like and then people can check them out, and if they’re in those regions and see if they want to attend. I love it. Why did you do that? As a comment to the takeaways that’ll be posted around four o’clock eastern today? Sure. Okay. That’s outstanding. We still have another minute or so left. What’s uh, what’s going on in. Oh, i’m sorry. There are the conferences or that you got it. That’s covers it. You know, i think because several have already passed. Those were the ones that i really found that i thought you know, were sprinkled throughout in different places. That you might consider going tio okay, sounds good. Tell me, uh, yeah, now we just have about a minute or so, right, sam? So what what’s going on in your world, what you’re seeing among your clients in our last minute, you know, well, i’m definitely seeing a tick up in activity, capital campaigns and so forth. So, you know, it’s great to see that good news came out with e-giving yusa numbers, and i think that that generally just kind of buoys people a little bit and their spirits. So i am seeing more activity and more research requests because of these larger campaigns and the need to research some of these high net worth individuals before visiting them. So in general, i think it’s it’s all good news. Okay, glad you’re optimistic looks so a beat. Andi, you’re going to be back with me in two shows on july twenty fourth for the two hundred fifty of show. Yes, you’re going to here in the studio? Cool, i will. All right, looking forward to it will be nice to have you institute a sze yu wei would say in latin i’m fluent in latin is a worthless skill, but thank you very much. Good to see you. Good to talk to you. Thank you. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter at maria simple next week. Have i ever let you down? Well, maybe there was that one show on fermenting, possibly. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuing dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam lied. Wits is the line producer gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez on our music is by scott stein. Thank you for that, scotty. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be green. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s, not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio Knowledge Base: Board Fundraising

 

It’s critical. And I know it’s a big, big problem for a lot of nonprofits.

Major Gifts 2.0: Straight Talk For Your Board [video]. Get a CEO’s perspective on board fundraising! My guest is Jennifer Herring, CEO of The Maritime Aquarium.

With Deborah Stanley from Blackbaud, A Board That Brings In The Bucks. She wants you to lose the fear of asking!

Your Board Can Fundraise with Dennis Miller, consultant.

From a few weeks ago, Your Board On Grants, with regular contributor Cindy Gibson. Our discussion applies to all fundraising, really.

Here’s the first Knowledge Base article, on Branding.

BOOst Your Major Gift Asks With Planned Gifts

Image courtesy of Pink Sherbet Photography, Creative Commons license
Image courtesy of Pink Sherbet Photography, Creative Commons license

A strategy to improve your major gift solicitations: include planned gifts.

When you ask a prospect for a major gift, include a planned gift. It can be as simple as a bequest in the will; as middle-of-the-road as a charitable gift annuity; or as high-end complex as a charitable lead trust.

You’ll have to beat off the gifts with your broomstick!

The Planned Giving addition adds a dimension to your solicitation. Now you have more to talk about if your prospect balks at the outright ask. You can reduce the outright ask and add more to the planned gift.

It’s best if you don’t add dollar-for-dollar because the planned gift won’t mean cash to you until the donor’s death. The exception is a lead trust, but those are quite rare. Instead, add to the planned gift the future value of what you’re not getting outright. Here’s a future value calculator.

You’ll have more to negotiate around. The negotiation dance is one witch is critical after your ask.

The added planned gift can also act as a straw man. It’s harder for your prospect to turn down both the major gift and the planned gift. Gutting the planned gift out of the solicitation–like a pumpkin becomes a jack-o-lantern–makes it more likely the major gift remains intact.

The greatest success I’ve seen with this arises because you’ll have more variables in your solicitations. There’s more to talk about and listen to.

Talk half as much as you listen and you’ll have bewitching successes with your major gift solicitations.

P.S. This is part of October’s Nonprofit Blog Carnival, Major Gifts Tricks and Treats, hosted by Claire Axelrad.

Nonprofit Radio, December 9, 2011: Fundraising Throughout Your Lifecycle & Marrying Major and Planned Gifts

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Sponsored by GE Grace corporate real estate services.

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Jeffrey Sobel
Jeff Sobel: Fundraising Throughout Your Lifecycle

What does fundraising look like in the stages of a nonprofit’s life: brain child; start up; adolescence; maturity; stagnation; and decline? And how do you avoid the last two? Jeff Sobel, principal of Jeffrey Sobel Consulting, shares his insights. (Recorded at Westchester County AFP’s National Philanthropy Day.)

 

Interviewing Charlie Gordy and Margaret Holman for Nonprofit Radio

Charlie Gordy and Margaret Holman: Marrying Major and Planned Gifts

Are these two compatible? What do their courtship and marriage look like? Charlie Gordy, director of planned giving for Harvard Law School, and Margaret Holman, principal of Holman Consulting, reveal how to make this a match made in heaven. (Recorded at the National Conference on Philanthropic Planning.)
 



Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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“Like” the show’s Facebook page.

Here is the link to the podcast: 070: Fundraising Throughout Your Lifecycle & Marrying Major and Planned Gifts

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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for friday, december ninth, two thousand eleven we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me last week for so me. For pg social media for planned giving kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo, shared her research on the best use of social media properties to support your plan, giving program videos, testimonials, blogging, technical information and more. And emily chan, half of our regular legal team from the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco, talked about political campaign activity and election earing what can your non-profit do? And how does the irs decide if you’ve crossed the line? What can your employees say under the first amendment this week? We’re fund-raising throughout your life cycle. What does fund-raising look like in these stages of a non-profits life brainchild, startup, adolescence, maturity, stagnation and declined? How do you avoid the last two jeff sobel principle of jeffrey sobel consulting shares his insights. This was recorded at westchester, a f p s national philanthropy day and then marrying major and planned gif ts are these two? Compatible. What does their courtship and marriage look like? Charlie gordy, director of planned giving for harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home and consulting, reveal how to make this a match made in heaven. This interview i pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning at tony’s take to roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. My block this week is the next-gen charity interviews from craig newmark, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects to neil strauss, who went undercover in a secret society of pickup artists. There are takeaways for your non-profit from all these interviews, and i’ll talk about a few of them on tony’s. Take to live, tweeting the show this week. Use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. Right now, we take a break, and then right after the break, we’ll start the pre recorded interview fund-raising throughout your life cycle. So stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Durney are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Oppcoll hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of national philanthropy day with the edith may conference centre in briar cliff manner, new york, hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter. Joining me now is jeff sobel. He is founder of jeffrey sobel consulting and his unconference topic is non-profit life cycles and culture development strategies for each stage. Jeff sobel, welcome. Thank you. Happy to be here. It’s. A pleasure. What is? What are the development life cycles? Oh, sure. Well, there’s non-profit life’s like, well, just like sort of for-profit business non-profits also have ah, very natural life cycle to them. I have to say, over the last couple of years, those have sped up because of technology. So we’re seeing a compression exactly time compression. So really, the first life cycle is the start of phase or the not to start it, but the brainchild phase or the creation on dh for many people, it’s something that never comes out because it’s something they think about, they think there’s a great issue that they can tackle, but they never verbalize it, and he never sort of formalize it. But for the few people who do yeah, and there’s more, more people who were doing it, they put that out there on because of technology and the ability to get people together and formalized people. And also the back office stuff can be done much quicker. So that’s why? Quicker and cheaper? Exactly. The expenses is almost never minimal. The amount of stuff did you khun doing? Cloud and social media? You’re going, you’re going your office running in a week. Exactly. It’s it’s, it’s amazing. So what happened? You know, you don’t even need an office. You’re doing it out of your bedroom. Exactly. Okay? And the other the beauty of it is is that you can learn quickly whether it’s going to take a hold or you can say okay, we can move on from that idea. Okay, the brainchild let’s move on and then we’ll come back. So after you get through the idea and you verbalize it, everybody you get to the start up phase where you say, okay, now i’ve got a sort of developed by-laws i’ve actually got a file for a five twenty three i’ve got to get the board members together usually boardmember zehr close friends at this time people, you know what friends and family have been recruited exactly? You bring everybody on and in the close network what’s inside your tent on, and then you start figuring out, okay, programmatically how well, you know, the idea that the social impact that we want to bring or the particular idea that we’re developing what’s the program we’ll look like. So this also can happen a lot faster. Now you have to sort of do your research to figure out. Are there other groups doing what you’re doing in that space? We’ll talk about that, you know, we’re talking about some of the trend analysis and doing your own research, but let’s, move on to the next phase short fired-up once you once you get past the startup, you’ve gotto sort of get into what we call the adolescents and growth rays, so you basically become a teenager, you sort of. Now you’ve got beyond just your friends and family on the board, you’re not usually your first funder and multiple funders at this time. Most organizations, fifty percent or seventy percent is coming from either one or two major funders, which again, family and friends exactly where a big foundation who loves the idea wants to be in that space wants to develop a model. Usually these things are still in the model face, so i’m going to develop something they say is going to work here. Westchester, if it takes off, will branch out to new york and new jersey embarrasses identity after after adolescence and growth. So then you become what we call a maturity middle age. You’re already sure there’s a thoughtless growth phase is something that then you become a mature agency. You’ve got your legs. All right, you’re actually operating. You usually got an office of used nowadays? Not necessarily, but you have a space that people can sort of connect to. People know about to program fund-raising looks very different fund-raising you start have staff, you organize more like structurally, actually. But you actually have an organizational chart that you can live by and actually is reality. The founders usually probably still involved in the early part of this, but usually that person’s phasing out or somehow still connected, but bringing on more of ah non-profit professional to be the executive director someone who’s had a career in non-profit um and then you grow in your boards are you know you have professionals on your board. Okay? People have different skillsets let’s. Go so let’s, go back to the early the brainchild way. Have ah, this business. You mind if i just mentioned one real quick thing? No, i don’t mind. Okay, go ahead. Uh, the next phase and what isn’t face-to-face? Oh, i thought it was true. And act like you actually four faces. One phase we never like to talk about. But then the last phase is what we call stagnation. Sure, agencies fall backwards and they go into what we call stagnation phase for whatever reasons could be a funding reason. It could be because their programs are not needed anymore, and they have to sort of reinvent themselves. Probably the most famous example of this is the march of dimes. They were started and they solved the issue of but the disease that they were trying to work on. And then they reinvented themselves specifically around early childhood and birth defects in various things like that. So, you know, agencies at that point, the last piece is, unfortunately, agencies can decline and shut down if they go. Down to the piece, this is when we don’t like to talk about it when we don’t like to talk to happen, but it does happen and there’s a way to do it appropriately. Okay, so let’s, just see what we have time for now, because i i do get a lot of enquiries about from people who are i have an idea, they’re passionate, they want to do something burning that isn’t a ce far as they know isn’t being done or isn’t being done well there, so we’re back in the brainchild phase. What’s your advice there around development strategies. Well, i think there’s a couple different things. One to do your homework and research to see who else is in that space. If there’s nobody else in that space, obviously, then i think you can move forward. If not, you want to go talk to those other organizations. You might be able to collaborate and they save yourself enormous. Exactly their enormous administrative and fund-raising i know everybody. There’s, there’s, sort of an eagle at play and everybody wants that sort of be the founder and head of a new five o once i can do it. Better exactly, and if you don’t have the personal wealth to fundchat in a very difficult thing to do and the first i find the first thing that can sort of temper that enthusiasm is the irs thie application exactly non-profit exempt status after you’ve been through the right, the state inc exactly, the irs will help you put the brakes on right with their twelve to eighteen month process. Probably the best thing that you could do early on is have a strategy session, bring in experts on people that you know, that you trust that will be as honest as they can with you. People are our objective outsiders as well, sort of a focus group ten to twelve people bring the idea to them, get their feedback. What did they see? Do they talk about other organizations who are doing the same thing? Are they you know, they see this as something that’s funda ble people will like isn’t needed, you know, obviously, just because you think it’s needed doesn’t always messes and everybody else is going to see thie importance behind it. So doing an early focus group, you know, not keeping the ideas if you’re proud of the idea, or you think the idea really has can resonate, then vocalize it as soon as possible, share what as many people as possible, see what i guess they hastily used the phrase, but see what sticks to the wall and get that out as soon as possible, because then you’ll learn you’ll. If it’s going to take off those early conversations in those early strategy sessions, those of the people are going to help you formalize it. Not everybody, but some are going to hell. Wow, i love what he’s doing or she’s doing. I’m going to lend my support. We couldn’t do anything to get independent thing. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get you thinking. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. No. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that calm mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. In this brainchild phase, we do need to put ego aside exactly it’s it’s a hard thing to dio it’s only human nature, but i think the way, the way i always preface things that people says, i personally think this would be a great idea. I’ve thought about it. This is my thinking’s, but i need everybody else to tell me what what is reality and have you if you’re good about listening to reality from others, it’ll save you an enormous amount of time because everything else that we’re going to talk about you could avoid if you don’t start a nonprofit but end up collaborating with with one that already exists that doing something related or close, right, i given example just real quickly, we just got contact we could contacted about this all the time, and i would say ninety percent of the time we get contacted, that person should be talking to another non-profit and they could bring that energy to that non-profit already created, and it could be a program developed within that and often running in. Lots of people are being helped and of that night, so go ahead, just everyone, some other is something new on dh? It has merit to wanting to develop a new organization. We’re working someone contest the other day who is a volunteer firefighter who happened to be very successful in business on wanting to develop something very specific for firefighters prevent heart attacks. It’s a highest rate of lye fire fighters die. Okay, so there’s a whole new program. He’s developing he’s. You know, within his first six months of the developing the idea he’s doing that, you know, we’re trying to counsel him through the right steps to see if this will resonate. Will it work and various things like that? So more times than not, though i would get back to your initial point is, if you put your eagle to the side and really get down to the facts, you could really decide whether it’s something you should be working with someone else or setting up that new non-profit in your experience, that ninety percent that ought to be talking to another non-profit how many of them actually do go talk to another non-profit about collaborating? I would say about half of those. Alright, okay, but it’s not that bad. And i would say unfortunately, most of them continue forward no matter what, i try to talk him off, go do what they’re supposed to do, and then they stop doing what they’re supposed to do, and you go off on their own anyway. Well, i think there’s something convinced them, you know, if someone lets give example, if it’s an entertainer or let’s say, it’s, somebody who’s been very successful as a hedge fund manager on investment world or some other business, right? They always feel like, hey, what we did in the business world, we could bring that expertise in the nonprofit world, and that was something that i could definitely say it was somewhat true, let’s say fifteen, twenty years ago, but the way non-profits operate now, you know, it’s very hard for someone who says, hey, just because i ran a successful coat company or some others hyre business doesn’t mean i can run a successful non-profit and have, you know, huge impact and changed on my own there’s just so much around compliance and regulation, you’re you’re starting a corporation. This is a non profit corporation, but it isn’t. It is incorporated, it has to adhere to a lot of those corporate rules as well as go find money. Well, the money parts really hard, you know, there’s so many non-profits in the space of trying to raise money. So you’re just, you know, you think your idea will cut through all that cloud and all that clutter of everybody else, but it won’t there’s ego and impossible. All right, let’s, move on. If we haven’t persuaded people that the brainchild faces really where they should stop and maybe ah, latto ally themselves with another non-profit if we haven’t persuaded them of that let’s, move on to the start up phase when your and your i know the focus of your talk is really around fund-raising in development strategy. So at this start up phase, what does fund-raising look like? Well, it’s a combination of things once again, it’s still going to be very close and that we’re friends, you’re going to develop a board, you’re gonna have to base it on by-laws and legal regulations and things like that. So those people are going to be you’re going to have to convince them in an early age, to want to be fund-raising on your behalf, you could be an early age of the organization really don’t don’t go recruiting five year old no that’s not fair, because they’ll come on five year olds will come, my love, you’re not gonna be like i know my eight year old, but they’re not going to reach adolescence by the time you do your organization does, they’re going to be exactly they’re gonna hold you back don’t don’t recruit the five year old no, i think the other pieces that you’re going to depending on the program and depending on the idea, what you’re also going to need to do is you have to harness technology. So between the social media, the youtube twitter than facebook’s of the world, you have to bring in an enormous amount of people who are going to learn about what you’re trying to do, connect to it early on, not that everybody’s going to move forward with it, but whatever whoever connect. So i guess you need to use the term, but you’re able to take it viral, then have some mechanism in the back to say ok, up to people who learn about it, who are the people that i need to go? Talk to the top fifty who are the top twenty five? You can’t be worried about that. One thousand people know about his thousand when early face of a startup, you have to find major donors early on, you have to find people who were going to buy into the concept take a chance they’re basically becoming investors in your idea of a philanthropic investor, and they’re going to take that that’s what’s going to be successful later on, you can build all the other traditional fund-raising ideas, but in the early start up phase, if you don’t do early on and get to capacity. Like i said, it goes back to also some people get started because they can fund it themselves. You know, michael bloomberg decides he wants to do something he can, he can throw his own a couple million teo. But aside, people can’t aside from from from being able to self fund, then this is really a marketplace test of your ideas and your marketing too, right? Right. And and that’s that’s going, you’ll never get to the mature phase of an organization if you can’t get major donors. All right, well, we’re gonna get people to adolescence before, before we get to mature. But how do they do something that you just mentioned? Identify the top twenty five or fifty out of the thousand people that are now, like, you know, like the facebook page and and r and r on the email list, how do you find those? The the top, right? Well, they basically had to use the tools that are provided for you from from a technology standpoint. So there’s a lot of research information out there that you confined on particular subject, whatever subject matter you are doing, even though if your programs unique there’s still people out there who have funded something in that arena. And so you have to find those people and find a way to connect and had those conversations with those foundations, corporations and major fund and potential individual donors. So most that information’s public knowledge now and you can create your own without spending a lot of money for fancy researcher you confined, you can create your own top twenty five prospectors. You can also listen to tony martignetti non-profit radio because we do have a regular prospect, research contributor maria semple, who comes on once a month, maria’s fancy socks you know what i do in the prospect finder? She comes on once a month. I’m with jeff sobel he’s, a founder of jeffrey sobel consulting, and we’re talking about the life cycles of a non-profit and different development strategies within each cycle, let’s go from start upto adolescence and growth. What does fund-raising look like now? Well, if this phase what you’re going to have a big change in your board, this is where you move away from your traditional friends and family board you’re actually recruiting people who have given to you connected to the agency professionals from other arenas, people you probably never met until you teo developed a non-profit so those trustees and you had to bring them on with the right expectations, too many matured agencies have they don’t have e-giving get policy, they don’t have a fund-raising component for their boards, and they try to integrate it afterwards. That’s the biggest mistake you can make what you have to do is in that early phase, when you move from start upto adolescents, you’ve gotta integrate the expectations of fund-raising for those who are connected, the board and volunteers because the only way you’re going to be successful in the fund-raising aspect is that i have a bigger network than yourself another people you know, the next. This is sort of a phase where you start moving into a traditional event, whatever that is e-giving example, agency we’re working with his only their foundation only has been around since two thousand five. This year, they did their first five k walk run on people connected to the walk run like you prior to the walk, when they had about a hundred people on their database after the walk run, they have over ten thousand people, not a smaller donors, the twenty five fifty dollars who donate to someone who walking and running into cause put down that now they have a database, that’s, actual prospects, people that take in mind and then move forward with. So you have to do something that’s going to increase that database, you’re going, you’ve got to really you can’t you can’t fund-raising without a database, but interesting, though you don’t, you know you didn’t start with event fund-raising back in the in the start up phase, you weren’t saying, have a gala. We’ll do a walk run, thie, but i do think a lot of people think of events is the only way to do fund-raising but so i think i’m just emphasizing all the message that you’ve said before this before you got to the events from the event was not the first way to raise money, right? Well, the biggest reason why lots of groups start that way is because most people connected to these ideas don’t have a non-profit background and most likely definitely don’t have a fund-raising background, a professional fund-raising background. So the only thing that they know is the traditional galas, golf outing, dinners and those types of things they don’t know the sophistication around major gifts and the moves management and the ways that are going to attract foundations and corporations, so they go to what they know that’s why i said that in the early stages, you’ve got to bring on some expertise, that’s going to help you sort of sort of figure out the best mode and bringing that money and get to the traditional type of stuff you need resource is it’s it’s it’s unless, like again, unless you have two dollars. To pay the caterers and the event and all the other stuff a front you can’t just do an event, events have a lot to cost to them and you don’t want to run a one something that’s not going to get you any profit, and they’re also incredibly labour intensive, very labor intensive, very labor, and i think a lot of people don’t realize what goes into making sure that the bunting matches the flowers. Well, the worst part about is they don’t realize that the real work for fund-raising happens after events, you know, it’s who attended, what did they get out of that event and who in that room has the potential to do something much beyond right? The price of the two hundred dollars ticket? You’re follow-up your follow-up on dh that’s directly now gets to what you said earlier when we were in the start up phase. You’ve got to find the people who come to the organization of those thousand or so that you found online who were the top ones that you need to follow up with same thing after you’re after your event. Who were the top attendees thatyou need to follow-up exactly in a strategic ways and maybe more personal ways than you’re following up with the other many hundreds who came, hopefully right, let’s move to maturity. Sure fund-raising here, what is our fund-raising model look like? Well, the fund-raising at this point, you should have ah, probably have a head of development, a director of development, smaller staff, some depending on the size agency. Much bigger staff, it’s going to be much more sophisticated. So your your development operations actually starts now breaking into two operations, you have your annual fund where you have to raise a certain amount of money to to need to keep the agency moving its programs, the staff paying everything that supplements all the other revenues of the agency. The other piece is creating the strategic longer term campaigns, whether it’s an endowment fund building a reserve if you own a building what’s, you know, the capitol pieces far building a new building or fixing things, you know, all sorts of reasons why you need to be in a major gifts mode, and you had to be able to manage those operations at the same time. You can’t just be in one and and do the other i’m insured agency amateur fund-raising development department can do both on last minute at least is also don’t forget about the plan giving component, which is very important by that by despite you should have the ability to really start taking your donor’s through their life cycle of e-giving on and that’s really important piece. Yeah, and if you’re not familiar with plans e-giving it’s it’s essentially encouraging people to remember the organization in their state plan, somehow that could be life insurance or simple bequest in their will. It’s like, sometimes it’s going back to the original founders and going back to the original people helped start the agency and saying, hayden, you know, we need you to leave a legacy you made something that now is around thirty five, forty years, whatever the years are, but it wants to be around for the next hundred years in order to do that, we need a sound investment. We need the sound endowment that’s going to secure an anchor, the agency what’s, the what’s, the key thing in the mature stage that you think non-profits don’t do a cz well as they ought to, they had to. Say one thing that you wish mature agencies organizations would do that they don’t, what would that be? Well, from fund-raising standpoint, i think the plan giving component is a huge one that i think too many agencies, i hate to use the word ignore, but put on the back burner or don’t put enough effort toward, but more important is thinking more strategic long term. So i think a lot of agencies plot along and do really well on the campaign and then when the moment arises or the question arises about hey, we need a campaign to do x, y and z above and beyond for whatever needs those are it’s it’s, they haven’t been doing enough to cultivate their donors, so that face takes a lot longer. So if i had the hole in the roof and we need to fix it and it’s going to cost us the two million dollars for the capital campaign, we needed to do it, you know, in a year from now, but we haven’t matured our donor’s ready to do it and it’s going to take more like two and three years so never think that the annual campaigns the only thing that’s going on the too many mature agencies think about the here and now, but, you know, i always think about your donors about what they’re doing for you anally, but also cultivating them to think about, okay, when we are ready to have a major initiative and they could be helpful to that major initiative, are we will we be ready to ask them? That’s the next stage is stagnation. That sounds like something we should avoid. Exactly, hoping i don’t mature that’s not part of my life cycle, right? So how do we avoid stagnation? Well, that is everything that you just described is a combination of that it’s also being able to evaluate taking a hard look once again it’s strategic planning process. But i’ma call organizational eagerness. Okay, so as we talked about in the start of face having egos, organizations, whoever tour sometimes have their own ego to themselves because i feel like the importance of whatever they’re doing or what they have been doing for many, many years still remains. So you have to be evaluating your programs. You have to be evaluating what you’re doing and that impact on the community. Can you be doing something new, evaluating the market to what if, what if the need’s right, that should be in the community all the time assessing whether your work is still relevant? Exactly. I mean, if you’re running let’s, say, youth program at a particular school and you know, when you first started about that, you had a waiting list and kids were climbing to get in there and in the last two years, you know, you go on visited in the half, the room’s half empty something’s not resonating there, so you can’t rest on your laurels and your funders will quickly get to that piece they’ll start seeing your outcomes. Obviously anybody who’s ever written the grant know is that at some point you have to write a report, and at some point, if you’re going to renew, you’ve gotta prove those outcomes, and when the numbers are not there, they’re not there, and so that will quickly. So you you can’t sort of live in that mode. You’ve gotta kind of always say, hey, we’ve got to be evaluating ourselves. What can we challenge ourselves with? It doesn’t necessarily meeting creating something off mission, because that’s what a lot of agencies, right is staying on mission, but creating something that will continue, you know, reinvigorating, reengage, you know, there’s various things, and the other thing is, obviously your volunteers, you got to be consistent with your board. Ah, there’s, nobody out there does that i’ve ever met who could be on a board for more than eight, nine, ten years and still be assed valuables they were from the beginning boardmember can leave, can moved often agency and still connect to the agency and still be important. But there’s a huge value, bringing someone new to fill that seat, new energy and many organizations, you know, they hold onto boardmember fearful to ask them to step down. We have just thirty seconds left. Jeff decline is the last stage what one piece of advice for avoiding declined? Well, usually that’s a hard thing if your agency the biggest thing that you can do to avoid declining a za non-profit is probably when you get to the stagnation phase, realize it quickly and devise a plan quickly usually it’s a deficit that you’re dealing with and never be afraid to cut a part of your program or your agency, because it could be the detriment of your entire agency, don’t hold onto something to to know in the long run we’ll put you out of business, even though you just hold on it because of legacy or just something you’ve always done. You have to be willing to cut your losses. Jeff sobel is founder of jeffrey sobel consulting and his conference topic at national philanthropy day is non-profit life cycles and culture, the development strategies for each stage. And i think this is jeff very interesting conversation, very relevant for people who are thinking about a non-profit there at that brainchild phase, they really should know what what lies ahead. Oh, yes. Is that there’s a lot? Thank you very much for being a guest. My pleasure. This is tony martignetti na non-profit radio coverage of national philanthropy day, hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter that was my pre recorded interview fund-raising throughout your life cycle. I recorded that with jeffrey sobel at westchester county chapter of the association for fund-raising professionals national philanthropy day in november two thousand eleven. Just last month. Right now we take a break and after the break it’s, tony’s, take two and then marrying major and planned gif ts. So stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation top trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m ken berger from charity navigator. Welcome back to the show, it’s time now for tony’s take to my block this week is my next-gen charity video interviews last month at the next-gen charity conference, i interviewed about eight of the luminaries who they had a cz part of their program. It was a pretty exciting conference close to a thousand people were their very jazzed up audience heard from a lot of very interesting people, and i got to interview a bunch of them. We were media sponsors for that conference. One of them is craig newmark he’s, the founder of craigslist, and now more recently, craigconnects craig and i talked about consistent messaging and knowing when to stop talking peter thumb and i talked about perseverance in the face of disappointment. Peter is the founder of ethos water aria finger, chief operating officer of do something dot org’s, which is a site devoted to getting young people involved in volunteering with non-profits joined me to share ideas about how to motivate teenagers to support your work market echo of eco enterprises, the well known clothing lines talked about his board service. Um, i talked with charles best he’s the founder of donors choose dot or ge and he and i talked about connecting donors to the causes they support. You may know donors choose that’s the site where teachers post their needs in the classroom, and then individual donors devote money to those to those needs. Neil strauss uncovered lessons for non-profits from his undercover work in a secret society of pickup artists. He infiltrated this society when he was on assignment for rolling stone magazine. You can learn what eric sapp kristen learned from taking two hundred of our nation’s thought leaders and entertainers out for a cup of coffee. He traveled the country in a volkswagen microbus and cold called about two hundred of our nation’s leaders and entertainers on dh people you know, from the arts and politics and invite him out for a cup of coffee, including jimmy carter, don rickles, henry winkler, let’s well, in the interview, i brought out some lessons that he learned from talking to all those people, and disney made a film about his his journey, and the movie is the journey so links to these and a lot of other next-gen videos are on my block mpg a dv dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, december ninth. Now we have a pre recorded interview marrying major and planned gif ts you’ll learn about how these two could be compatible from charlie gordy, director of planned giving in harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home in consulting see whether this could be a match made in heaven between major and planned gif ts and here’s that interview this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We are in the heart of san antonio, texas, on the river walk i guess now are margaret hohman and charlie gordy. Margaret is principal holman consulting in new york city and charlie gordy is director of planned e-giving at harvard law school. Margaret charlie welcome! Thank you. Thankyou, tony. Good to be here. It’s. A pleasure to have both of you your your session topic is job fusion or confusion marrying major and plant gifts. Charlie, let me start with you. What what’s the possible confusion. Well, as a lot of organisations respond to what’s going on in the economy, the pressure for outright current e-giving has led to a de emphasis on plan giving deferred e-giving and individual playing, giving officers or having to respond to that looking at being merged into a major gifts rolls, and that is causing some confusion for them, i think, personally and also institutionally in what the best approach is to overall fund-raising into their donors, okay, but is it not a good idea to be breaking down silos between major e-giving and plan giving? I think breaking down the silos is absolutely critical and the structure internally you should be very flat. Margaret pointed out in our first session that what she sees and obviously let her speak for herself, for what she sees in the future is a very flat structure. The silos should be broken down, and major gift and plan giving officers should work very, very closely together with donors, but they are different techniques of fund-raising they’re different processes you think differently when you’re focusing on on plan giving versus major e-giving, um, and all playing gifts are major gifts essentially just depends on how you get there, okay? We’re going to talk a little about what the different thoughts might be and margaret, we will get to what the future looks like, but before we get there. I just, you know, sort of leading into the topic too. Your your session description suggests that changes in the economy changes in the tax law are impacting this issue. Indeed, the more complex, constant and confusing change is that there are with tax laws right now from the charitable deduction that proposed change in the estate law. State tax law it coming it going? How do i plan for a bequest? Should i die this year? Should i die next year? Those are all things that are confusing not only to gift officers but also to donors and that is really driving a lot of the expertise surrounding both major gift work and planned gift work. Thie economy obviously has an effect to when the economy stumbles, major gifts go down. Plan gifts are not as affected by the economy because they are future gifts. They’re more long term on many organizations. If they have a plan gift program that has been working that will be the bridge between the bad economy and staying alive is because i’m getting bequests. I might not be getting major gifts now. Are you seeing in your consulting practice some regret among charities that don’t have a plan giving probono yes, wishing, wishing they started ten even five years ago maybe yes, and many organizations who said, hey, listen, our plan give program is just going a million miles an hour, we’re getting millions of dollars, so we don’t have to do anything now on then all and then it starts this gradual decline for about five years, and somebody in the finance office says, oh, my gosh, how come our be question come is going down it’s because we haven’t been doing anything well, let’s put some money into doing anything now they’ve got another five year wait, so you got a ten year trough s o that the name of the game is consistent, it needs to be this consistent effort indeed, from oh planned gift and go ahead, charlie. Yeah, tow follow-up on what margaret said, i worked with an organization a few years ago on a consulting basis, and the cfo there said, look, i could shut the plan giving program down tomorrow, and i wouldn’t see it, i wouldn’t see any impact for five years, and i’ve got a budget problem right now that i’ve got it solved. So, isn’t that a a good solution? And i had to tell him that no, in fact, it’s absolutely the wrong thing to do because you are going to hurt the long term financial health of your organization for a short term gain and, uh, our listeners, i want to point out charlie has a terrific bowtie on, and for those who are on the videos were doing videos is not a clip on i want to make it very clear, it’s clearly not a clip on much, much classier guy than then those clip on men. So what? What are some practical solutions, margaret, for breaking down the silos and bringing the two together? Well, one of the practical solutions is to train cross train land, gift officers and major gift officers in each other’s areas of expertise, so that in essence, you become a generalist. And i find now that my clients, when they do have an opening for a major gift officer, are looking for somebody who can talk plan gifts. We want two for the price of one. When i started in the fund-raising world nineteen seventy six, there weren’t planned gift officers. There weren’t specialties because of the way the economy went and democratic demographics of donors it caused institutions to create silos. Teo, answer that need the demographics are changing the old that big group of older folks who are prime plan gift prospects are dying off now. There aren’t very many of them left, and we’re entering this age of the boomers and the silence who can both make a major gift and a plan gift. And now we need to have people who can talk both things, but we also have to educate our boards, but more often than not, we really have to address the problem that charlie ran into and talk to our finance people and explain how this really works. Let’s, start with the first of the things that you mentioned, the cross training how how deep should the major gift officer’s training be implant e-giving are we talking about just the ability to open a discussion or that they could go further? Maybe even maybe even they can meet with donors? Advisors? I mean, how deep should that training b of the former plan gift officer now? Now cross training? Well, it is really is going to do for sort of the former major gift officer. Krauz right, it’s going to really depend on the individual and the institution? I like to make my major gift officers what i call dangerous going like for them to know when they’ve gotten to the point where they don’t have the answer and and can say confidently, i don’t have the answer that let me get back to you on and that way you accomplished two things when the donor gets the right information, but you have another contact with the donor, thus getting the relationship continuing our good relationship on. So i like to get them as dangerous as possible. They need to understand the basic concepts and know when to say i need, you know, i need to call charlie, okay, so now, charlie yeah, yeah follow-up on that i work with major gift officers att the law school that are are really exceptional a cz you’d expect, and they still aren’t very comfortable talking about plan giving on on a regular basis. I have one that asks me a couple of times a year again to explain the difference between a gift annuity and trust. And that’s fine, and i’m happy to do that and that’s a great role for me. What i like to do is educate them to know what to listen for. You know, i have a house that i’m no longer using very much. I’d love to give, but and then to follow on what margaret said when the donor says that, but i like them to say to no be comfortable saying, well, you know what? If we were able to show you a way that you could still make your gift and take care of those other financial concerns that you have, they don’t need to know how the gift annuity payments are taxed or how the charitable deduction is calculated, but that their their methods that the organization can present that will allow the donor to still make their gift and take care of those other financial concerns that have so that suggests that there there does still need to be an expert in planned e-giving at at the organization, we can’t all just be flat, absolute cross trained? Absolutely. I believe that one hundred percent. Yeah, well, the the other thing, too is well, i also believe that there should be a plan give expert on everybody staff not every organization can afford to do that is going to get there. So using expertise either if you’ve got somebody on the board whose attacks planning attorney or trusting a state’s attorney and you can use that and get some advice or there are a lot of consultants out there who would be more than happy to work with an organization on on an hourly basis or whatever other way you khun by the expertise you need, what you can’t buy is the donor relationship. Yeah, if you have the luxury of the budget toe, have somebody on staff that’s great, but as margaret points out in his, you point out, tony, if you don’t have that it’s available and you can find it and it’s it’s almost like the same link between the major gift officer and the in house plan giving person with more expertise and then thean house plan giving person in the outside consultant everybody knows how far they can take it and when to bring in somebody else to actually make the gift happen. Let’s, go into some of the little detail, charlie. About what you suggested earlier, what to listen for lets you know so that listeners can actually get some of the benefit of the of the training. What are some things that gift officers should be listening for? That would suggest a good plan to give prospect well, first in in, in doing the planning to visit someone looking at their history, their donation history, consistent gifts over a long period of time, maybe it’s one hundred dollars, maybe it’s, fifty dollars, over five, ten years, maybe it’s a thousand. So they have that that that philanthropic connection with the institution, when you’re meeting with them of and your goal, perhaps, is an outright major gift. And they say, well, i’m just i’m not very liquid right now, so they have assets, but they’re tied up, maybe in stocks or in real estate, and if they’re in stocks and real estate, those of the assets they have it’s, a perfect candidate for a plan, gift talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Durney okay, margaret, any any further advice on? Well, oftentimes i hear people say, i don’t think i can afford this right now, and i want to take care of my family so that that again gives us that opportunity to talk about some more unconventional ways, shall we say, to make those kinds of gifts? When i work with organizations toe to go out and talk to donors, i tell them often, teo, tell the donor to take care of themselves first their family’s second and us third. And there are ways that we can help you take care of yourself, your family and then us that don’t involve writing a check. Okay, what’s one of those ways. Let’s. Go into a little detail. Well, obviously, their life income gifts that can provide for your wife, your spouse, your elderly sister, whatever. You can still make a gift. That person is getting income gets it out of your state plan. There are a myriad of different ways that you can do this. I think baby boomers are going to be looking at life income gifts as good alternatives for retirement planning and that’s going to be the new frontier four. Major and plant gift officers and charlie. Those the most common life income gifts that we see, i guess, would be the charitable gift annuity and charitable remainder. Trust that that’s right gift annuity is much more common, usually for a smaller dollar amount less flexible in the planning process than a charitable remainder trust which can i usually take care of a need to have a growing income stream versus a fixed one. And the terms of the trust document can generally be varied. Mohr then a gift annuity, which is just a simple contract. Okay? And you also have a lot of state regulation around charitable gift annuities. We want listeners to know that it’s not it’s, not a lot of states. Most states it’s not something you can just start issuing tomorrow. No, there. There are a lot of things involved. I also sit on the board of the american council on gift annuities. And there are a lot of things involved when you decide to get into a gift annuity program. State regulations for sure need to be complied with, but also the liability, the contractual liability that you’re exposing your organization to has to be. Matched against the benefits of the program, you have tohave ah, the ability to assemble a pool of gift annuities fifteen, twenty, twenty five gift annuities so you’re diversifying the risk over the portfolio of annuities, you have to have an investment strategy that’s going to be appropriate to deliver that annual income. So there, it’s very simple to set up in terms of the contract and the gift, but much more complicated to maintain and run appropriately, since you’re on the board of the american council on gift annuities wanna give a little pitch just to give the web web? You know the girl for you? Www dot a hyphen, web dot or ge great organization has been around since the twenties recommending gift annuity rates, recommending not prescribing but recommending gift annuity rates that are really in the best interests of the donor and the organization over the long term. Thank you for that, and i want you to know that i didn’t know the girl in case i didn’t say i was happy to have you say, but i don’t want you to think, oh god, what if i don’t know what you’re on the board so i figured you’d be saying i told you there was a safe question. I hope that means i got it right. His hyphen web dot. Org’s that’s, right. Um, let’s see, margaret way talked a little about the future of this job fusion versus confusion. What? What were your points in the workshop? Well, the basic point is, is that while we continue to be donor-centric in all of our activities way we have to begin to understand that we’ve made these silos to define for ourselves as fund-raising professionals where we are in the hierarchy of our organizations, donors don’t care, they just want to deal with the right person at the organization and for some donors, learning that i’m going to be talking to the director of major gifts, paints a bull’s eye on my forehead, and that makes me uncomfortable. But if i was talking with margaret from the development office, who was going to help me make a gift externally, we have to be flatlined. We all have to look like we’re equal. We all have to be able to help our donors do what they want to do. So i see the future is that? That titles will pretty much be the same. Go away internally, we’ll have our organised beloved organization charts, but to our donors it will just be a flat line and that’s it extends beyond major and planned giving, though to visit, and you will giving corporate and foundation sponsorship and support work. I was at a event for a client recently, and everybody proudly was wearing their name tag with their job title on the front and the director of major gifts was walking down the floor, heading to see a specific donors and she could see the job title and she turned her back to talk to somebody else. You just bull’s eye, i know i’m going to be asked for a big gift, so i think this just continues to be donors and we have to pay a tent. We have to listen to what they’re saying, but we’ve been saying this for i don’t know at least a decade, but now i’ve been in play e-giving for fourteen years, not as long as either of you and i’ve been hearing donor-centric donor-centric put the donor’s needs first, but in terms of job hierarchies and descriptions, it hasn’t. Happened yet? Ah lot of that has to do with it coming from down from the top and how executive directors like to organize and how they manage on, and it takes a sophisticated executive director to understand how important it is the public perception of a donor to working with somebody, they really associate the person, not the title with the organisers. And i remember advice from someone i know you both know hyre robert sharps sr who used to preach that his preferred job title for everybody would be assistant to the president. Yes, because what don’t right, johnny, what donors wouldn’t want to talk to the assistant to the president? No, no, i think that’s right, and the the name tags that i like the most for me personally just say alumni affairs and development. They don’t say director of plan giving because i think margaret’s right? You get a very different reaction or when i send emails and i’m thinking about this as i’m saying it, i may change my email tag, take out the director of playing e-giving and just put in alumni affairs and development because people see that and the point about it. Being flat internally and donor-centric we’ve been hearing the donor center, as he said for about a decade, the flat internally i think it’s been less and less quick to come because organizations haven’t had to respond internally. Now, we’ve had the two budget crises over the last decade two thousand to two thousand eight organisations saying, you know hey, what are we doing in terms of how were structured and the danger is that playing giving gets lost in that shuffle in the in the flat, the flattening and it all becomes major gift focus with a loss on the play e-giving focus i think if it’s done right, you could do it both very successfully have a flat organization, somebody internally that has the plan giving expertise. I can work successfully without being siloed to enhance major gift officers success and still preserve the plan giving expertise and function and that’s the fusion in urine yourself in your workshop titled the job fusion i think that’s right. I want to bring these things together. Any closing thoughts, margaret? Well, we just want to say thanks again for having me us today and we, i hope, all of our listeners get one or two good nuggets of ideas that’s the idea. Margaret hohman is principal of woman consulting in new york city. Charlie gordy is director of playing giving at the harvard law school. I want to thank you both for joining us. Thank you. Thanks, tony. Pleasure to have you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning two thousand eleven. That was my pre recorded interview marrying major and planned gif ts from the national conference on philanthropic planning earlier this year. I want to thank jeff sobel and charlie gordy and margaret hohman and the organizers of a f p westchester’s national national philanthropy day that’s, where i talked to jeff sobel and the folks at the partnership for philanthropic planning, they were the hosts of the conference where i interviewed charlie gordy and margaret hohman next week. Social media inbound zombie is his consulting company, social media marketing for non-profits is his blogged john hayden will be my guest and also scott koegler, a regular contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news will share the latest on tech for your office. Keep up with what’s coming up on the show. Sign up for our insider email alerts on our facebook page. You know where to find facebook and then it’s just the name of this show. If you like the show like the page, please become fan. You can listen live or archive. Itunes is where you listen archive and you could get to our itunes paige at non-profit radio dot net. You can subscribe there and listen on your computer smartphone tablet the device of your choice. You can follow me on twitter. You can follow the show on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio. 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