Tag Archives: Major Gifts

Nonprofit Radio for November 15, 2019: Music To Major Gifts

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My Guest:

Mitchell Linker: Music To Major Gifts
No One Dreams of Being a Fundraiser.” It’s a nonprofit truism and Mitchell Linker’s book. He and his music are with me for the hour. (Originally aired 12/1/17)

 

 

 

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[00:00:14.64] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%.

[00:00:22.54] spk_2:
I’m your aptly named host.

[00:00:24.08] spk_1:
Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into exile,

[00:01:20.84] spk_2:
Fauria. If I saw that you missed today’s show music to major GIF ts No one dreams of being a fundraiser. It’s a non profit truism, and it’s Mitchell Lincoln’s book. He and his music are with me for the hour. This originally aired on December 1st 2017 on Tony’s Take to I’m Looking for Innovators were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO, and here is music to major gif ts. What a pleasure. Welcome Mitch Linker to the studio. He is a professional fundraiser in education and author of No one Dreams of Being a Fundraiser. My unexpected journey from music to Major gif ts

[00:01:30.28] spk_1:
Welcome studio, Mitch, Thanks a lot. I’m grateful to be here. That’s a pleasure. Yes, I’m a fan of the show. Thank

[00:01:37.57] spk_2:
you. Thank you. Well, that that’s a prerequisite to being get now. It’s actually,

[00:01:39.77] spk_1:
uh, it helps. It helps. Sucking up definitely helps. Don’t Don’t suck up to them. And you look great today. Yes. Thank you. I got a lot

[00:01:46.21] spk_2:
of crushing questions for you. Don’t worry.

[00:01:47.54] spk_1:
Okay. Um, all right. So music to major gift. That was That’s Thea. That’s York. That’s your story. Yeah. Story so far at least. Okay. Oh, so there may be another career. Well, given

[00:01:59.05] spk_4:
my track record, there could be several. Yeah.

[00:02:00.90] spk_2:
Oh, I see. All right, so there may be, like, fundraiser to French

[00:02:04.57] spk_1:
teacher. Okay, I think

[00:02:05.78] spk_4:
I’m I think I found my found like Okay,

[00:02:14.48] spk_2:
cool. All right. So, music, young age. Yeah. I’m talking to a former professional musician that you

[00:02:19.33] spk_1:
professionals, a little charitable, much money song made money to defend, not a living

[00:02:22.97] spk_2:
by are barely squeaking. No credit cards were important to you.

[00:02:28.20] spk_1:
Wake up to some of that. All right, But, you know, we got to start with the early days. So the kiss concert 1979. Yeah, very important to you. And

[00:02:40.39] spk_2:
your brother. Um, you pleaded pleaded with your dad. He took you. Why? Why? What happened while I was still big to you?

[00:02:42.34] spk_1:
You know? I don’t

[00:02:43.07] spk_4:
know. It was at a time in my life there was some personal turmoil going on, you know? And so I think it became something that I could cling to some transitions going on. And what

[00:02:53.72] spk_1:
about kiss? Kiss? I was the makeup, the makeup. It’s funny, The music.

[00:02:57.71] spk_4:
Not so much. It was the makeup I just remembered. Like tracing their faces on that old tracing paper.

[00:03:01.98] spk_2:
Yes. I don’t have a trace of

[00:03:03.01] spk_1:
onion skin. Yeah, exactly. You traced over it with a pencil? Yeah. Became obsessed with them. And who’s your

[00:03:08.47] spk_2:
favorite in the band?

[00:03:13.03] spk_4:
It was Gene. Gene Simmons had to be late. Was I should say, Was it waas?

[00:03:19.80] spk_1:
I don’t have a favorite, and you know, he’s around. Back in the day,

[00:03:24.52] spk_4:
he was the guy. There was something just so you know, demonic and terrifying about you weren’t loved.

[00:03:26.62] spk_2:
You had never seen him live.

[00:03:27.81] spk_4:
Never seen them live.

[00:03:29.40] spk_2:
Dad took you And your impression. What can you remember?

[00:04:00.10] spk_4:
Well, the problem was which I talk about in the book was that I got sick. I think I was probably too young to be on the show. I was seven and I just didn’t feel well. I think the noise, the just the overall stimulation of it all. I just remember sitting there kind of crying and upset the whole time. And I remember seeing it. I remember seeing Jim Gene Simmons flying and I I have vivid memories of the experience, especially considering how long ago it was. But it wasn’t a happy memory on that. I want it getting sick and I went down health.

[00:04:00.76] spk_2:
All right, so So I mean, that’s all right. That’s not a great memory. So why, Why Continued in music or what? Well, you’re only seven, then

[00:04:12.59] spk_1:
you’re still doing your still dabbling in music a little bit at a young age. Obviously it

[00:04:17.34] spk_4:
was obviously, it’s part of sort of the tableau of how I became a musician, because I mean, and I continue to be fascinated with them for years and years, So that was sort of my gateway. Um, so

[00:04:23.95] spk_1:
yeah, it was very formidable. For whatever reason, I’m sure

[00:04:27.21] spk_4:
a lot of people have that story or some variation cause kiss spoke to young kids during that era.

[00:04:40.99] spk_2:
All right? Yeah, but you got sick, and then you’re still continue to you know, you’re well, everything is Everything is life or death. When you’re seven years old, it’s so important to you. Everything is you know, the red wagon was important, but all right, but all right,

[00:04:48.08] spk_1:
you continued on. Um, so your music career was kind of like I

[00:04:52.54] spk_2:
see, like, 3 to 1. There were three people in the dent. Yeah. Then you were down to two with the day traders.

[00:05:00.70] spk_1:
Man, you did your home Any whatsoever, the ball. I appreciate what you remembered it. I do have it written down, but I do remember I’m looking in his eyes. I’m saying, now, that was the dent and the day traders and then ends and then solo eso

[00:05:15.79] spk_2:
and the day traders was too. There was a to person to person act. All right, Um, the

[00:05:18.36] spk_1:
dent was important to Yeah. Now. All right. I just want to set the scene. Now. You grew up in you Grew up in West Hartford. No, no, I was originally New

[00:05:24.17] spk_4:
York City. When I was very young and I moved to Connecticut. My family moved to connect, okay, and I’ve

[00:05:29.64] spk_1:
been in Connecticut. Everyone’s not West Hartford,

[00:05:37.13] spk_4:
no Fairfield County, Fairfield, Fairfield. And that I’ve been in the central heart, Central Connecticut region, like West Hartford since the year 2000.

[00:05:38.26] spk_1:
Okay, now I know

[00:05:41.73] spk_2:
West Hartford. I mean, I guess as I was growing up in North Jersey, I don’t know if this is still true. Um, what started? It was very wealthy community because a lot of insurance companies were based in Hartford, right? And then a lot of senior executive lives in West Hartford, right? That was a pretty exclusive place. And in fact, I remember when I was, ah planned giving director, visiting a potential donor who was a retired insurance executive in West Hartford. And he had a huge house. I don’t know. It was hard for

[00:06:05.35] spk_1:
you when you were growing

[00:06:06.32] spk_2:
up. Was it still that way?

[00:06:07.45] spk_1:
What’s offered is

[00:06:08.00] spk_4:
a great place there. There are a lot of really great quality of life sort of suburban towns in central Connecticut, glass and very Avon and West Hartford. Certainly. Probably the top.

[00:06:16.75] spk_2:
Okay, but that’s not where you grew up

[00:06:22.02] spk_4:
in Fairfield. Careful, County. If you feel count well, fearful

[00:06:23.10] spk_2:
of the town. The town in Fairfield County knows that Southern at Southern Connecticut, near New York City, that it’s a good place for commuters to live. But there is also a town named Fairfield

[00:06:32.20] spk_1:
and felt very

[00:06:33.06] spk_4:
far like when I moved to central Connecticut. Like the only time I ever went to Central Connecticut was to go to the Hartford Civic Center to see things like kiss concerts when I lived down in Fairfield County. Okay, so it was.

[00:06:42.92] spk_1:
Even though it’s a small state,

[00:06:44.30] spk_4:
they’re two very distinct areas.

[00:06:46.11] spk_2:
All right. And

[00:06:49.40] spk_1:
you were You were a musical act in Connecticut. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you made something

[00:06:52.81] spk_2:
of a name for yourself in Connecticut.

[00:07:01.11] spk_1:
I like to think so. The hostess joking. Excuse me. Yeah. Okay. Um, starting with the dent. You and two friends? Yeah. Tell us about the dead. Yeah,

[00:07:15.92] spk_4:
Boy, man, do we go back? I were talking Jeff and I My God, we would play with tennis rockets before we could actually play instruments when we’re positive way. And then we segue way too real instruments. As we got older in high school, and and then we met Dan. So, yeah, the

[00:07:22.27] spk_1:
three of us

[00:07:25.81] spk_4:
go way, way back to, like, 15 years old. And, um And then as we got older, we got more serious and started actually writing songs and obviously playing our own instruments. And then it just became

[00:07:32.76] spk_2:
all right. You want a karaoke band

[00:07:33.98] spk_1:
now? You actually did play instruments? Yeah. We actually played instruments. And yours. Yours was originally

[00:07:39.13] spk_4:
I was a drummer. And then I was, ah, demoted to lead singer.

[00:07:44.14] spk_1:
Okay, I play piano

[00:07:45.75] spk_4:
took for writing purposes, but I’m not good at have never been proficient.

[00:07:49.18] spk_1:
Okay, That shows that such a

[00:07:50.27] spk_4:
difficult question for me to answer. I say I’m a musician. People ask what I do, and I get this 10 minute answer.

[00:08:01.54] spk_1:
Well, it just depends how detailed you want to do anything ridiculous. Well, all right. All right. That’s okay. But you played okay. All right, let’s go out. Let’s go out for

[00:08:39.24] spk_2:
our first break. Sure. Um, Well, uh, yeah, with which is me, um, speaking. And, uh and so if you stand by, um, Central Brick. Okay, it’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As. Does your accountant return your calls and e mails. Do they keep to their deadlines? Do you like them? Are they nice people toe work with? Are they keeping mistakes to a minimum? If these aren’t all yeses, then maybe it’s time to look for a replacement. You know, a partner at wegner-C.P.As euh Doom. But on the show many times. Gonna be coming back early next year. You start at wegner-C.P.As dot com, check them out, and

[00:08:42.15] spk_1:
then ring him up. Give him a call,

[00:09:13.14] spk_2:
Talk to eat, See if wegner can help you wegner-C.P.As dot com Now back to music to major gif ts Now back. Too much liquor and his book. Um, nobody dreams of being a fundraiser. All right, so the dent was, uh it took time. I mean, it was hard to get traction. Yeah, you didn’t have a book or you don’t have an agent, right? You were recording doing some gigs. What

[00:09:13.67] spk_1:
happened? Funny, I would

[00:09:16.33] spk_4:
recommend that everyone write a book because for me, even if very few people read it, it was like therapy. And I

[00:09:23.17] spk_1:
learned a lot

[00:09:23.69] spk_4:
about my started process. And to your question, one of the things I realize in hindsight because we struggled so much. We were so focused on this dream but had difficulty, as you say, getting traction.

[00:09:34.71] spk_1:
Part of it

[00:09:35.14] spk_4:
was in some sense, we weren’t all in, and I realized about that about myself. You know, I wasn’t the type of guy who’s gonna live in a van for six months in total squalor like I loved writing songs. I loved music

[00:09:47.45] spk_1:
and I did love traveling, but I just never was able to

[00:09:49.61] spk_4:
kind of make that full life commitment. And I

[00:09:53.22] spk_1:
only realized

[00:09:53.93] spk_4:
that in retrospect, I guess that’s sort of an aside. But

[00:09:56.87] spk_1:
that’s one of the 50

[00:09:57.91] spk_4:
things I learned about myself in the process of writing this thing. And so it’s

[00:10:01.78] spk_1:
sort of helped me realize Oh yeah,

[00:10:16.47] spk_4:
that’s that’s that’s what happened to an extent, maybe we didn’t commit as much as we should have. We committed to the writing and, like the dream was there. But as far as what you actually need to boot to d’oh, it’s so difficult and unpleasant.

[00:10:17.60] spk_2:
Yeah, maybe you over romanticized

[00:10:19.57] spk_1:
it. I

[00:10:19.83] spk_4:
think so. Yeah. Yeah. Now how

[00:10:24.34] spk_2:
do you feel about your commitment to fund raising today?

[00:10:25.38] spk_4:
0 100%. Okay? Yeah. No, I feel like this is my do over.

[00:10:29.29] spk_1:
So here. Okay, that’s what I’m trying to get it. But as you were a musician is still

[00:10:33.98] spk_2:
with the Dent. You felt like you were committed. Then Did

[00:10:36.00] spk_1:
you feel committed then, Do you think? I mean, is it possible to look back and say,

[00:10:45.20] spk_2:
You know, there were times when I just really wasn’t sure I should be doing it, but I kept kept on or did you feel like you were all in then? But now, looking back, you feel like you weren’t.

[00:10:49.04] spk_4:
That’s a great question. That’s why you’re good at this.

[00:10:51.18] spk_1:
Cool. I got scored one, Okay. Initiating host. Because I think to

[00:10:55.97] spk_4:
some degree, I probably always knew and

[00:10:58.51] spk_1:
part of

[00:11:02.32] spk_4:
it. And this is another epiphany. I kind of wondered why I think the dent we just kind of stayed with each other out of familiarity, familiarity and comfort were best friends.

[00:11:08.18] spk_1:
Maybe that

[00:11:36.58] spk_4:
wasn’t the best sort of trio. Maybe that wasn’t the best partnership for over all of us. And perhaps if I had not, I was just so so committed to these guys. Maybe if I had gone solo earlier or met someone else or one of them met someone else. Maybe I would have sort of hitch my wagon to a different thing and momentum would have occurred. There was just something about the dynamic of the three of us that, in a way held us back. And I think on some level I knew that. I really do know now in hindsight, so great, much

[00:11:44.34] spk_1:
interesting. Okay, now Ah, there’s a lot of hard

[00:11:59.82] spk_2:
work. There’s a lot of there’s some overlap between being a struggling musician band, right? And fundraising, right? You point out Rejection. Networking? Yeah. Um um And you have 1/3 1 too? Oh, well, a thick skin. I guess that’s partly right. Partly that’s affiliated with rejection. Do you feel like some of what you faced negatively with the dent And then the day traders, you know, actually helped you in fundraising?

[00:12:15.65] spk_1:
Yes. And that’s

[00:12:34.34] spk_4:
a thing. Well, I well, despite what I just said, you know, in my mind I was generally all in and it was all I thought about. And as I talk about the book constantly pounding the pavement, trying to get gigs, trying t o get a record deal. That was really that was that was the fingers. And so,

[00:12:35.59] spk_1:
you know, there was a real

[00:12:36.66] spk_4:
commitment there, and yeah, it was just constant rejection, like anyone Good thing would happen and it would be almost a surprise

[00:12:59.29] spk_1:
radio. You want us to know exactly what was wrong with you? Sure Got a judge to make it a little hasty. Take the weekend to think about it, and then let us know if you actually wanted to play next Friday. References of people who protected us. So that did

[00:13:15.96] spk_4:
inadvertently trained me. And I talk about that a lot in the book, which is how you came to the question. But, um, yeah, I was used to rejection. I was used to things being difficult, used to the struggle. And when I started to have success in something that that wasn’t music, which was the fundraising, it

[00:13:18.22] spk_1:
was just

[00:13:35.37] spk_4:
amazing. It was like this incredible epiphany. And that’s the ironic thing is there were so many periods of time in the early days and music days when I thought, Am I wasting my life? Certainly people in my life probably thought I might be needing to make a pivot, but it turned out to to be great training what I encourage anyone to do. What I did is their path to fundraising. Not necessarily, but

[00:13:41.83] spk_1:
everybody’s got some path to it. And

[00:13:44.81] spk_2:
rarely, as your title suggests, Is it linear

[00:13:52.67] spk_4:
right? I don’t know that I sort of have the confidence in the fortitude and the desire that I have now if I hadn’t gone through that, so I have no regrets, though there is a period of time where it felt dark.

[00:13:59.98] spk_1:
They have a day job during the transition. 3 to 1 drink. Maybe that’s part of

[00:14:04.21] spk_4:
the commitment thing. I never just quit that job and completely did it. I was getting a little too scared. That’s probably what I mean. When I say, like, was I fully in? I think I’ve always had a little too much of a fear factor,

[00:14:33.73] spk_2:
actually, even interesting. Now, your second band, we’re not gonna really dwell on the second band. Yes, two of you, But day trader I mean, that’s not they’re not all day traders. I don’t consider being all in. It’s not like they’re invested in a Wall Street career. I mean, they’re in a stock for a couple hours, and then they’re out. So, yeah, maybe there was something pressing it about that name of nose. I don’t know what I’m saying.

[00:14:53.20] spk_1:
Yeah, it was. Now that I’m not being very impressed by perceptive, I think about this. Joe doesn’t just come together. Country popular, believe. Get email. Like, you know, this is a slapdash Oh, I love it. But I know it’s not that, you know, it’s not true. All right, So the day job was you were you were involved in nonprofits eventually

[00:14:53.91] spk_4:
landed in non profits for a while. I had a dalliance is with several different random things on, and eventually I stumbled upon non profits. I know awareness of the nonprofit sector.

[00:15:03.40] spk_2:
Alien says good work. Thank you, but I’m sure not probably radio listeners will know that we’re but it’s good work.

[00:15:16.40] spk_4:
Every now and then, I’ll pull one out. But that was probably the only time in this show. So when I first started in development, who wasn’t conscious really was more just a job,

[00:15:21.70] spk_2:
he needed a justice in their life, right? My love of

[00:15:24.72] spk_1:
exactly. Exactly. And it worked well for a

[00:15:26.43] spk_4:
while. It was very, uh,

[00:15:33.52] spk_2:
there was a time when you became a lot more intentional about a career in development. Starting to music. Music was not paying off, right? I was getting old. Yes. You’re getting older.

[00:15:39.41] spk_1:
How would you know? I think we should set the contact. How do you know

[00:15:41.45] spk_4:
I am? Wow. This is

[00:15:55.40] spk_2:
gonna come. I mean, you wrote a book about your life held 45 0 k. 45 Much anger. I get 10 years on you. All right. That’s a good thing. This is a podcast. Nobody contest that assertion that you just made. Um, you could go on the website making tony-martignetti dot com make your own decision about whether which looks younger.

[00:16:04.03] spk_1:
It was saying that I was indicative. I think people should draw that conclusion on the run.

[00:16:11.62] spk_2:
I think it is a self serving pathetic, you know, sounds presidential Almost. Okay, We don’t do politics. I’m not profit radio.

[00:16:13.84] spk_1:
So you became a little intentional? Uh, yeah. Things were not

[00:16:17.65] spk_2:
going well. Money tight music, floundering. Really? Your own gig. You’re on your solo career. You said you canceled. You cancel every gig. You’re in your music and your solo career, right? Literally canceled every gig. That

[00:16:30.29] spk_1:
Yeah. And then the whole thing

[00:16:31.61] spk_4:
is that when I think I feel like I actually started to find my voice and got better at music, I was at a point where I was too late. Like I said earlier, I was in these bands and I was felt beholden to these other people. And

[00:16:42.17] spk_1:
then when I

[00:16:42.42] spk_4:
finally went solo, I felt like I gotta groove. But at that point, I had a lot of debt. I was getting older, and and then what really happened? Was he The economy tanked out, and I don’t. So yeah, I felt so vulnerable. And I thought, Well, I’m already in development. I’m gonna make this my thing. And I just completely abandoned music at that time,

[00:16:59.99] spk_2:
Okay? Now And that you were doing database management. And then you moved into Prospect Research. Yeah, around this’ll 87 4008

[00:17:07.92] spk_1:
recession time or a little bit earlier. I was doing well.

[00:17:15.64] spk_4:
You said advancement surfaces. Then I was broadening it a little, but it was still not I was doing major gifts, you

[00:17:18.02] spk_1:
know, So but generally

[00:17:19.02] spk_4:
I was sort of the research guy

[00:17:24.60] spk_1:
back. Still back office? Yes. Something you talk about. Two bosses

[00:17:35.42] spk_2:
were discouraged. You and one who encouraged you. Um, discouraging ones. What we wantto little cautionary tale. How did they discovered you in your, uh Because you had expressed an interest to them in right of career and fundraising and furthering your working fundraising and two people discouraged you. How so?

[00:17:42.23] spk_1:
Well, I think in an

[00:17:44.94] spk_4:
in hindsight, maybe I would have discouraged me, too, because I was still kind of like a young punk. You know, I guess I still had an air of

[00:17:53.21] spk_2:
I mean, they would you respect him? You worked for them?

[00:17:54.94] spk_1:
Yeah. I mean, when it was never malicious.

[00:17:56.67] spk_4:
But I think I just I didn’t look the part at the time. You know, our act, the part. Probably. I probably acted young and,

[00:18:03.45] spk_1:
you know, I was very

[00:18:20.03] spk_4:
vocal about my love of music. So I’ve sort of had me compartmentalized. I write eso then to suddenly say, I want to do this very serious, very diametric opposite you. Another good word of trick.

[00:18:20.52] spk_2:
Oh, that’s not a good word.

[00:18:21.40] spk_4:
I don’t know. Did he use it wrong?

[00:18:23.75] spk_2:
No. It depends what you mean. We’re not gonna flush it out, but I don’t think it’s good. Okay, now I’m

[00:18:30.44] spk_1:
gonna move on, okay? So that I’ll point out the vocabulary. You have got to stop myself. You really do. I’ll point out that I don’t. Who will? I’ll

[00:18:46.66] spk_2:
point out the high points, and we’ll let listeners make most of the decisions on their own. Okay. Um, So ah, so

[00:18:47.55] spk_1:
let’s talk about the guy

[00:18:48.23] spk_2:
who are the man or woman who inspired you. Somebody believed in you. Yeah. What? That person,

[00:18:53.32] spk_1:
a few people along the way just sort of

[00:19:02.99] spk_4:
recognize that I had, um ah, personality. That might be, um, suitable. Yeah. Thank you. Um,

[00:19:05.36] spk_1:
that. And I

[00:19:06.16] spk_4:
guess I I was always

[00:19:10.25] spk_1:
conducive. That was good, E. I think part of it

[00:19:18.18] spk_4:
was just I had a lot of different ages. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I think I was, um, that I had an energy and a zeal, and and so, um,

[00:19:27.41] spk_1:
it’s a man or a woman. It was a few people long encouraged me, and maybe we

[00:19:49.73] spk_2:
should be seeing people beneath the surface and look at what traits they possess and how those might actually uh, transform into a fundraising career or anything in no profit so that, you know, we peel away the layer. Let’s not judge a book by the cover. And there are There are traits that people have that could be valuable to non profit.

[00:19:52.48] spk_1:
And yeah, we should try to see

[00:19:53.71] spk_2:
that if if we’re ever in this kind of situation,

[00:20:10.73] spk_4:
I agree. And I’m deeply grateful for that for that encouragement, cause at that point in my life, I hadn’t had much encouragement. You know, I’d sort of just been on my own trying this thing, and it wasn’t really working out. And then, um, it goes such a long way. And yeah, I agree that it was sort of a raw skill energy. Whatever I had that had sort of a few people had noticed. And I was grateful for that. And I would have never really come to that on my own.

[00:20:58.81] spk_2:
You say that you perceived fundraising as the guys in Glengarry Glen Ross, which happens to be a favorite movie of mine. But you know, if those who may not know it it is excellent. Um uh, Al Pacino. Ah, Walter Matthau. No, no, Jack Lemmon couple Al Pacino. Alec Baldwin. Very, very small but very pivotal role. Al Pacino. Jack Lemmon, Alan Arkin. Excellent. Ed Harris. Excellent. Kevin Spacey. Yep. Excellent. Yeah. Um okay, so these are these are shyster real estate people. We get the I didn’t get the idea for a movie that they’re spending selling marshland in Florida people. Um and that was sort of your perception of

[00:21:07.95] spk_1:
gifts, of asking people for money and, you know, part of

[00:21:24.70] spk_4:
it’s funny. I remember I went to this conference early on, and I was I was doing research at the time, and I went to this. It’s very funny nights. I went to this, um, dinner, and it was basically major gift people. I don’t even know why I went to it. Um, you may have been that it was for everybody, but was predominately major, give people and like, the volume of that room was so loud, it was just a bunch of what I perceived as extroverts. Just really sort of out there confident people,

[00:21:35.44] spk_1:
and part of

[00:21:58.67] spk_4:
it from he was a jealousy, because I had been so just estranged from that world order. I was just a very small world, and I wasn’t very confident. And then I saw these people in these personalities, and I just thought, Man, that’s what fundraising must be. You’ve got to be this big, outgoing person. I can’t do that. That’s not my personality. And I know where you’re going with this, but basically, I came to realize you don’t necessarily have to be that way. Um, but it was just It was so intimidating to me. And then when I unpeeled back what I thought a major gift officer does and what they do Dio it just seems so scary. And it just I sort of pigeonholed. You have to be a certain type of person who is outgoing and brave and frankly, all the things in many ways you do need to be. But it was so different from how I perceive myself.

[00:22:25.21] spk_2:
I don’t know how you know where I’m going, because I don’t know where I’m going.

[00:22:27.38] spk_1:
Okay, great. I’m sure I’m not sure how you’ve mastered that thing. Seems like a good place. We’re gonna play one of Mitch’s song.

[00:22:32.65] spk_4:
Oh, my gosh.

[00:22:33.27] spk_2:
Um, it’s Ah, it’s better. This is the dent. Is that this? Is

[00:22:36.44] spk_1:
this is me. So this is a solo. I’m sorry. Okay, Is the last thing I don’t know things air. You know, he’s making his transition now.

[00:22:49.39] spk_2:
Getting serious about, uh ah. Career in in fundraising. So things are looking up. It’s Ah, Mitch linker. Yeah. So low.

[00:22:52.66] spk_4:
So low.

[00:22:53.08] spk_2:
Better. Anything else you want to say to lead

[00:22:54.56] spk_1:
into it? Well, this was never

[00:22:56.88] spk_4:
never It was recorded as a demo, but it never went anywhere. I never did an album, you know. I didn’t put it on iTunes or anything that this was right at the moment that I basically stopped. So this is the first time anyone in the world

[00:23:08.73] spk_1:
All right, so it’s a podcast, so you can play it back. You’re not gonna buy it anywhere. You cannot buy it. Give me a

[00:23:14.37] spk_4:
call when you got

[00:23:15.21] spk_1:
here. It is better.

[00:24:57.94] spk_8:
Which way to go? Wait. No way.

[00:28:36.99] spk_2:
Which linker better? You heard here on non profit radio. The only place you will when you take a break. Cougar Mountain software, This s o the musical interlude into musical segue Way into the break. Cougar Mountain software designed from the bottom up for nonprofits. What does that mean for you? It’s got what you are looking for, like fund accounting. Are you using spreadsheets to manage all those restricted funds that you have? That’s that’s not that’s not great. That’s not efficient, Cooler Mountain and also has fraud protection as well as the fund accounting. They have a free 60 day trial. You’ll find that on the list of our landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now, time for Tony’s Take two. I’m still looking for innovators for our 2020 Siri’s. That might be you. Or is it someone you know who’s contrary to conventional wisdom and tradition? Are you tackling something differently and you’ve got some success to show added as well, then I’d like to talk to you because you might very well work out as a guest for the innovators. Siri’s in early 2020 And again, if it’s not you, how about a colleague? Somebody you know? Whoever it is, you can email tony at tony-martignetti dot com, or you can use the contact page at tony-martignetti dot com. I’d like to talk to you, and that is tony. Take

[00:28:37.83] spk_1:
two. Let’s do the live love. Um, right here in the U. S. of a We got Tampa, Florida, Brooklyn, New York, New York, New York and San Lorenzo, California Just a

[00:29:53.21] spk_2:
couple. Just a couple. That’s fine. And going abroad. Yeah. Mallika Mexico Buena Star Days, Republic of Korea and Seoul, South Korea. Get Republic of Korea is just the country. You can see the can see the city there. But that’s all right. But we do know soul is with us. So of course, on your house. Oh, I’m sorry. And also, uh, the Republic of Iran is with us. Live love to Iran Sham Do India, Bangkok, Thailand, Osaka, Japan Live love out to each of our lives listeners, whether domestic or abroad. Naturally. And the podcast Pleasantries to our over 13,000 listeners in the time shift. So glad that you were with us. Thank you for listening in whichever form live or archive. Um, let’s go back. Thio Mitch Linker and music to major gif ts. Okay, Mitch Linker, we’re back to you now. Thank you for standing by. Thank you for your minor contributions. Okay,

[00:29:54.42] spk_1:
So things are picking up and you start to self teach yourself. You, uh you got conferences? Books? You’re diving in? Yeah, self self education.

[00:30:10.51] spk_4:
Yeah, Yeah, I just immerse myself again. I completely abandoned music. Um, to this day, I haven’t, um and I just committed myself 100% thio fundraising, and yeah, I just I tried Thio Network as much as I could. And

[00:30:20.78] spk_2:
this wasn’t a cringe moment for you when I played better. Was it?

[00:30:23.80] spk_1:
Um, you’re dying inside. You’re dying inside where? It’s a little embarrassing. That’s okay. Really. No. I mean, I’m proud of you. I’m proud of it. Well, there you go. All right. No

[00:30:32.65] spk_2:
embarrassment. All right. You may feel embarrassed, but

[00:30:35.73] spk_4:
you’re gonna play the whole

[00:30:59.37] spk_1:
thing. But that sample here we were all in non profit. It was all a 100% in committed to the worst humor. But I committed to it. That’s that’s what distinguishes most people would cut their losses. Oh, no, not me. Oh, I’m in. I’ll be the joke to death till I fell. Either I get sick of it, Which that’s a very high threshold. And that’s happening right now you’re witnessing It. Says you says you you’re not one

[00:31:10.19] spk_2:
to judge. Uh, I don’t know why. I just I’m just declaring You sure you’re not. You’re not judgment worthy. All right,

[00:31:12.94] spk_1:
So you, uh you developed a cut. You Eventually, you you found a coach. You found a couple of coaches. Yeah, Mentors. This is

[00:31:20.34] spk_2:
important to you as your sort of rate moving your way into. Now you’re in major gifts and you’re blowing some things

[00:31:24.96] spk_1:
which everyone does. This is not an embarrassment. I have

[00:31:31.14] spk_2:
not as many as you, but I’ve blown things. Um, coach and mentor. Mentors. Coach is very important to you.

[00:31:34.27] spk_1:
One of

[00:32:23.47] spk_4:
the few key takeaways for anyone who’s might be interested in the book or maybe thinking about major gifts. One of them is for me was transformational. And, um, I just think everyone should probably, no matter what you’re doing in life would be great to have a coach and mentor. But for me, having that like one on one dialogue, having someone you can go to and runs situations by and sort of talk things out with someone who has experience and has been around the block and they’ve seen everything. It really changed my life because I was struggling. I again I educated myself. But when I was trying to practically apple apply what I had read or studied. I just wasn’t comfortable in this guy. And then a number of people who I met, I A long list of mentors really changed everything for me. And so again, anything in life you probably need people to look up to, but certainly with major gifts, I would definitely encourage anyone to just find someone outside of your environment outside of your job. Somebody doesn’t know the players who can objectively just sort of look at situations and talking through them.

[00:32:35.30] spk_1:
And if you are someone who’s experienced looks to take on, look, to help people, I mean, we need further the profession. Not only,

[00:32:41.78] spk_2:
you know, of course, yes, if you are new to the profession. Absolutely. Mitchell’s vice advice is very sound. But

[00:32:46.06] spk_1:
if you’re immortal, more experience. Yeah, look, to look, to help way gotta elevate the profession, whether it’s fundraising or whether it is one of the back office. Yeah, important back office functions give processing or reason process Prospect research, database management. You know, we gotta elevate you gotta elevate the profession. We all have a responsibility to bring up those of us who are, uh or newer Yeah, you know, and it’s and it’s so much fun.

[00:33:10.70] spk_4:
It’s fun. T. And I think most people want to give back and want to help. And, um, you know, the few times I’ve had the opportunity to kind of pay it forward, I found an incredibly fulfilling. So you’re right. It’s a two way street. And

[00:33:21.57] spk_2:
you tell some very good stories in the book about how just simple conversations. Get a 30 minute conversation, you know, huge sea epiphanies.

[00:33:28.11] spk_4:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:33:39.12] spk_2:
Is that a mixed metaphor? See epiphanies having epiphany? Can you see an epiphany? I don’t know. You could see the light at the end of the tunnel. Let’s stick with that. I don’t know if you see an epiphany or you just Can you stand? Can you see an epiphany? Sam doesn’t know. Yes, crystals. He’s the man surrounded by crystals, but

[00:33:44.14] spk_1:
I think it’s happened. I thought about it.

[00:33:45.73] spk_4:
I think it’s having epiphanies that you haven’t.

[00:33:48.70] spk_2:
Okay. All right,

[00:33:51.52] spk_1:
um, us. Let’s Now. You’re

[00:34:15.20] spk_2:
a bona fide major gift officer. You’re getting over the hurdles, thanks to the coaches. Mentors. Um, you’ve got some practical advice that you like around. Um, let’s start with the donor. Now you’re in a solicitation, right? Meeting don’t preemption. That was a tough one for you. One guy. One guy wrangled you twice. Meaning, Go ahead. I’ll let you explain preemption in case someone’s not aware. What are you talking

[00:34:20.25] spk_1:
about? I don’t know. I don’t pretend that might be

[00:34:21.97] spk_4:
a term that I just

[00:34:22.88] spk_1:
you know, I don’t wanna fight. You have. You know,

[00:34:31.34] spk_4:
basically, when you have a number in mind or a gift you want to talk about and then the donor, they had you off the path

[00:34:32.12] spk_1:
early in the conversation. Oh, don’t worry about Yeah, I know why you’re here. I’m gonna give the $3000 I gave you. General, you’ve got 50

[00:34:38.39] spk_2:
1000 in your mind. Exactly. They’re committed to their $3000 from last year.

[00:34:42.20] spk_1:
That’s one of

[00:34:42.79] spk_4:
100 things that air the type of scenarios that are difficult to navigate. It really only know through experience and through having

[00:34:49.62] spk_1:
the experiences you didn’t fail. You have to fail, get some help from a coach mentor and go out and do it again. Exact Gotta You gotta keep taking bites of the apple. Right? So it’s a little practical

[00:35:00.45] spk_2:
advice around preemption. What do you do? You throw out

[00:35:03.95] spk_1:
what happened. Okay, Lets a hypothetical

[00:35:13.33] spk_2:
Well, from the book you’ve got. I remember I forget what number you had in mind, but let’s stick with my hypothetical, okay? Yeah, You’ve got 50,000 Your mind In the 1st 5 minutes of conversation, you agreed. The person he says, Look, I know why you’re here. Um, I promise you, I’m going to the same 3000 I did last year. And then he pivots to a different subject. Now you’re off that you’re off the giving subject, thanks to the right, the donor and the preemption. What’s your advice?

[00:35:30.39] spk_1:
Well, you know, it depends

[00:35:31.69] spk_4:
largely on the report. If you feel a comfort, that sort of eye for my experience will dictate how far you’re gonna push. Sometimes you just gonna say thank you and move on and hope the next time you can growing more prepared.

[00:35:43.09] spk_1:
You know, I think sometimes maybe thank you, but thank you.

[00:35:45.59] spk_4:
But which is sort of what I was

[00:35:47.39] spk_1:
going to

[00:35:49.11] spk_4:
say that you know, if you have a report, there’s comfort If you just sort of very authentically and genuinely and politely say, That’s great. I appreciate that. But, you know, I’ve really been looking forward to talk with you. I have a couple ideas that I actually wanted to share with you. Would it be OK to let you know we were thinking,

[00:36:02.23] spk_1:
You know, most times people are gonna say Okay,

[00:36:11.99] spk_4:
sure. We want to hear what you had in mind. And maybe it’s tied to a naming opportunity that it’s a zoo has a certain level That sort of dictates that love. Yeah, you know, sort of those things that are our scholarship at a certain minimum. So they’re these tools to kind of help you navigate that. But

[00:36:21.41] spk_1:
really,

[00:36:27.83] spk_4:
it’s having the boldness and then the comfort Thio continue that conversation. And sometimes it goes well and, you know, it really all depends.

[00:36:31.03] spk_2:
Yeah. Okay. You talk about, um, urgency, urgency and contacts. Yeah. You like those

[00:36:35.98] spk_4:
Those? That’s what I learned from my key mentor.

[00:36:40.98] spk_1:
Okay, push it out. Yeah. You know, context is just sort of explaining. You know,

[00:36:44.54] spk_4:
you have numbers in your mind when you’re talking to a donor, Basically sort of justifying the number and explaining why someone’s gift is important. and, you know,

[00:36:52.77] spk_1:
the end of the

[00:36:57.51] spk_4:
day when you’re raising money, it always comes down to a small number of people who are really bringing in. We’re giving the past majority the money. Whether you’re talking about ah, small campaign or very, very large campaign, it always comes down to a small number of people. And by context, I like to sort of convey that to donors and sort of let them know you’re in a small group of people that were going to help bring about real change, to save and change lives. There aren’t that many people out there, you know. You are one of a few, so

[00:37:18.99] spk_1:
that’s sort of the context. There’s

[00:37:44.84] spk_2:
actually some empirical research I was just reading, like within the past two months or so. Um, a report about someone had done some experimentation around different types of materials. What one printed said, You know, all together we can prevent hunger in the community or something. And the other was, You can be a change maker. You and so is the global or their full community versus targeting the individual. And that individual marketing piece did much better,

[00:37:51.38] spk_1:
right? I’m just saying you

[00:37:53.12] spk_2:
are the change maker. You’re this. You’re the you’re the pivot. You’re the critical link in this right in this problem in our community. You the solo. Yeah,

[00:38:00.89] spk_4:
that’s great. That’s

[00:38:02.26] spk_1:
so that’s so that’s the contact, The context

[00:38:06.79] spk_4:
based just sort of really just explaining how important someone is. Thio Urgency, then the difference that they can make and why. So

[00:38:13.37] spk_1:
that’s that. That was hugely

[00:38:15.11] spk_4:
helpful me and having those giving conversations so don’t like setting the table

[00:38:22.91] spk_1:
urgency. Urgency is, um, you know,

[00:38:39.31] spk_4:
just putting parameters so that so that there’s a reason to have a conversation at a certain time. Like capital campaigns are all about urgency. Oftentimes, it’s a very arbitrary timetable, but it gives you license to talk about giving at a certain time because there’s a deadline. You know, political campaigns. It’s more finite. It really is. You know, there’s Election Day,

[00:38:44.30] spk_1:
but other campaigns,

[00:38:57.71] spk_4:
often times it’s just sort of a random period of time, but it it’s a great tool. It helps gift officers. It helps fund raisers sort of justify why you’re having a conversation at a certain period of time. So it’s an instrument to help move conversations along.

[00:39:00.72] spk_1:
How do you deal

[00:39:08.58] spk_2:
with the rejection that being rejected in music helped you? All right, helped you, Ah, achieve in fundraising. I mean, you don’t get everything that you asked for now from donors. How do you process it? What are you thinking about? Help. People who are struggling with this.

[00:39:19.19] spk_1:
Here’s

[00:39:19.64] spk_4:
how I feel about that.

[00:39:21.72] spk_1:
There are

[00:39:39.67] spk_4:
many times when I come out of the visit or situation, or maybe after a follow up, and the gift doesn’t come through. But I still feel 10 feet tall. And it’s because I feel as though I did the right thing. You know, I feel like I asked for a gift that made sense. It was well received. You know, Maybe a doctor will say That’s the right number to ask for or I appreciate you coming to me. But now is not the right time or this isn’t the right project, but it’s very amicable. And it’s not a negative experience for for anybody. Yeah, you know, there’ve been plenty of times when I didn’t get the gift, but I feel good. I feel like I was brave and I had the conversation that need to be had, and it was the right one. But for whatever reason, to just wasn’t the right timing for

[00:40:00.31] spk_1:
the donor. Yeah, for the donor. Exactly. And oftentimes

[00:40:03.83] spk_4:
no, is Just know now. Yeah. No. For

[00:40:24.41] spk_2:
06 knows you’re halfway to ah six knows you’re halfway to her. Yes, I would like to say, um, what about when you walk out? You’re not feeling so good. Like, maybe I let the institution down, right? I didn’t know there was an opening, and I didn’t seize it. You walk out regretful. How do you process that? And then, you know, carry on because a couple days later, you’re gonna have another donor meeting.

[00:40:27.31] spk_4:
I do beat myself up about it. I As I get older, I feel like I’m still the infancy of my career. I’m gonna be learning to the day I retire, which hopefully will be decades from now. Um, and I’m trying to beat myself up less about it, but basically, I just try to learn from every experience. I literally will write down how something went. What I think I could have done differently. I’ll talk to my mentors. I still have my coaches, and I just try to learn from every experience. And most importantly, I hope that the relationship is preserved. I didn’t do any damage. And generally don’t. That’s key. The

[00:40:54.42] spk_1:
relationship is over absolutely long. Can always go back. It’s a long term relationship. Yeah, it’s long term

[00:41:02.79] spk_4:
based on trust. And absolutely. And it’s about the institution. Yeah,

[00:41:36.35] spk_2:
about the institution. Excellent. Let’s take a little break. It’s time for our last break. Ever wonder why some nonprofits are always mentioned in the news? It’s because they worked to build relationships with journalists. Who matter to them. Turn to communications can help you do that. Their former journalists. They specialize in helping nonprofits build meaningful media relationships that lead to great coverage there at turn hyphen to dot ceo. We’ve got butt loads more time for music to major gif ts. All right, Mitch, I

[00:41:40.95] spk_1:
almost called you much clinker beauty that it’s been known to happen. Yeah, sorry. Okay, I admit

[00:41:45.30] spk_2:
it. I mean, I applied myself for, ah, being being honest enough to say it. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Uh, small victories. Er you’re important to me. I amuse myself. If no one else. I amuse

[00:42:07.00] spk_1:
myself and the family is all right. Well, if you’re not, I still am. So And that’s what this is. The center of the universe is me. So, um, let’s see where we are. Okay? So, uh, you’re the the institution.

[00:42:08.89] spk_2:
Yes. You’re I mean, you’re sort of keeping in mind that it’s the institution that you’re asking for. Does

[00:42:14.69] spk_1:
that help you in de personalizing this whole process?

[00:42:18.89] spk_4:
Exactly. And I was going to say that Thank you for saying that because that’s something that I’ve learned. And I talk about this in the book with music. It was personal. When I was rejected, they were saying,

[00:42:27.83] spk_1:
We don’t like your in order that you’re I don’t like your voice. Go as your art. You’re right. We’re just that your art.

[00:43:00.19] spk_4:
It’s not about me. When fund, it’s not about the solicitor. It’s about the mission of the organization. And that’s how you can remove yourself too. And you just want to do the best thing on behalf of that organization because its mission driven you’re tryingto again safe and change lives. And so, you know, I lament of something doesn’t necessarily go well because I do, to an extent, feel so I’d like the organization down and hopefully to better in the future. But it’s not about you. It’s not about being a great fundraiser or having the magic words to say, you know, your career. It’s about the lives that your impact,

[00:43:17.59] spk_2:
you do have to keep going out. You know, you’re gonna have to get over the rejection and put on a brave face for the next meeting with the next donor a couple days later and for your next meeting with that donor that you feel like you didn’t do so well with. You’ve got to keep getting out. You got it. Builds your experience

[00:43:25.38] spk_4:
Absolutely. The more you’re out there, exactly the thicker skin you’ll get and the more experiences you have. Yeah, every experience you have, it’s like, Okay, that will never happen that exact same way again because I will learn from that moment. So there’s no it’s

[00:43:37.63] spk_1:
not. And this is a

[00:43:53.15] spk_4:
funny thing. I talk about the book. It’s like experience, but also being reflective and having people who are training you because I spend a lot of time out in the road and I wasn’t making progress because I was making the same mistakes again. And I didn’t have the tools to get beyond those mistakes. So it’s a combination of that experience and then really working at it. And I again I feel like I’m just starting. Um, I learned every day.

[00:44:00.55] spk_2:
How long have you been a major gift fundraiser

[00:44:03.29] spk_4:
I’ve basically been doing. I’ve been in major gifts

[00:44:06.97] spk_1:
over

[00:44:07.27] spk_4:
10 years now,

[00:44:12.56] spk_1:
but, I mean, I started in research, or I’ve been Yeah, I know, but I mean, Frontline fundraiser. Yeah, about a

[00:44:18.74] spk_4:
decade. 11 years, right? Yeah. 10 12 years. Yeah.

[00:44:19.71] spk_1:
You have a love hate relationship with travel. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:44:23.57] spk_4:
I and II romanticize it. I do enjoy travel, but it is. You

[00:44:29.01] spk_2:
romanticize it leading up

[00:44:30.07] spk_1:
to the trip. Yeah, right. It’s gonna be cool. Getaway hotel quiet.

[00:44:34.98] spk_2:
And then you’re on the trip. Not so much.

[00:44:37.02] spk_1:
Well, it’s just it’s

[00:44:52.61] spk_4:
a lot of work is a lot of work. A lot of things can go wrong, especially when you’re trying, uh, beyond dealing with the travel. Just navigating all these visits and meetings may change. It’s exhausting, but I feel like a conquering hero when I come back from a trip, you know, having been through. It’s very I think it’s a powerful experience and it’s

[00:44:55.09] spk_1:
so great

[00:45:06.25] spk_4:
when you have a trip and you get to see a lot of different people because this is a point I want to get to that. It’s the best job in the world, and one of the reasons for that is you meet so many interesting people you would never meet otherwise successful people, people who are doing great things in the world, people who’ve had extraordinary experiences, and you’re given this opportunity to talk with him. And, you know, if you go on a trip and you’re on the road for a week and you have 10 or 15 meetings, my God, what an incredible opportunity to to see the world through the eyes of these people who have done extraordinary things. It’s incredible the people I’ve met who I would never have met otherwise.

[00:46:04.94] spk_2:
You only travel tips for a long trip. Not just like a couple two or three nighter, but suppose you’re out for 10 nights. Ah, years ago, we used to have ah, what the heck to be called that Tony’s no style tips tony travel tips. Hard to believe it would be an alliteration, but Tony’s travel tips travel doesn’t fit. It’s not teacher know. So, anyway, we had started there years ago. I just used to plead with the regular contributors to give me a style tip or something. I were my formative years. Still trying master this podcasting still am, uh,

[00:46:05.39] spk_1:
travel tips for people on the road for, ah, you know, a week or more. Well, it’s funny. I actually I was gonna put this

[00:46:16.88] spk_4:
in the book, and I didn’t. So there’s, um there is more material out there. I wrote sort of things basically travel tips.

[00:46:20.78] spk_1:
All right, There’s gonna be a Volume two sequel, so I have many,

[00:46:21.83] spk_4:
many things. A lot of it is a really

[00:46:23.64] spk_1:
good one thing I’ll say for fundraising. Non

[00:46:25.80] spk_2:
non profit radio listeners

[00:46:26.68] spk_4:
always have backup meeting set because you’re gonna have cancellations, things you’re gonna move around. So that’s something I’ve learned. I would just be crestfallen when I’d have a triple set and then one by one, meetings with Lord that I find myself in a Starbucks just depressed. You know,

[00:46:39.28] spk_1:
you’re on the institutions nickel to exactly what am I doing in San Francisco? Backup trips back up visits, visits is key. What are

[00:46:53.78] spk_4:
some other good tips that I have? Do you have

[00:46:58.18] spk_1:
any, right? Well, yes. When, um you do? That’s what I like to do. Is a

[00:47:05.68] spk_2:
sort of, I guess, these air backup. Um, I’m in town. Then I call people who have always said no. You know, I don’t want you to come just to visit me. Yeah, I get that. So, actually, sometimes I would go just to visit them, and then I would build a trip around them. But

[00:47:16.66] spk_1:
I’d say, you know, I’m gonna be in town to see somebody else

[00:47:42.64] spk_2:
in a couple days or depending on the person. I’m not even spring it on them like the night before or day before because a lot of people plan giving and giving consulting, right? Mostly retired, you know? Now they do Have, you know, if you get him out of there without a doctor’s appointment 10. AM That wipes out the whole day. Sure. Now I have a doctor. Appointment 10. Now. Four o’clock. Didn’t know dinner. Now I won’t be. I’ll do that. I have a doctor appointment. 10 o’clock. I can’t make the dinner so you run that risk. But, you know, if you’re in town for another couple days, you can still say no. So people don’t like to know that you came for them. Yes, there are. There’s a cadre of people who like to visit you. We’ll take the visit yet as long as they don’t feel that you’re there. The reason you came?

[00:47:57.53] spk_4:
Yes. Absolutely. And as, uh, related to that, I’ve found that sometimes it is. Usually they’re easier to get the meeting on very short notice. You know, you plan these things far in advance, but there’s a real magic. Sometimes I think I’m gonna be around tomorrow. You know, just so happens I’m in town. Someone looks at their schedule. They have an opening. Sure. You know, it’s not something that you would. You wouldn’t plan a trip

[00:48:22.87] spk_1:
that way. He wouldn’t, but But there is. You have some Anker visits, you know, pretty solid

[00:48:24.74] spk_2:
ones. You know, we’re not gonna very unlikely to bail, and then you

[00:48:28.06] spk_1:
can build the other ones around. Yeah,

[00:48:31.60] spk_4:
and sometimes a short notice actually is convenient for Bianca and works out.

[00:48:40.44] spk_2:
Um, just remind listeners, of course, that the name of the book is no one dreams of being a fundraiser at Barnes and Noble. It’s an Amazon. Find book. Retailers near you. Well,

[00:48:45.33] spk_1:
you know, live listeners. You could check it out right now. Go to Barnes. I happen to

[00:49:11.07] spk_2:
like Barnes and Noble. Okay, um, check it out while. Well, uh, while I continue the chat with the while, we continue the chat with with Mitch channeling you, channeling you trying to think, What would you do with that person? Asked Course. I don’t know who the person is, but amusing myself. Um, opening yourself up to donors, you talk about some donors, you’ll share your music past with something long. But the

[00:49:11.78] spk_1:
personal connection means a lot, right? Yeah, it does. It does, um, to an extent, because generally my philosophy is I mean, you need that

[00:49:58.81] spk_4:
personal connection because you want trust, and you want a real genuine report. But at the end of the day, it’s about the donor. And that’s something that I’ve learned is that generally I find that if I’m talking too much on a meeting, it’s probably not going that well because they’re not opening up. I’m not learning from them. Right So it’s like you need that human connection in that, hopefully a long term relationship. But it’s it’s it’s about their experiences, as I say in the book there. Ah ha. Moments. You know how they really feel about the organization kind of getting to that understanding and then that that their emotional connection to the mission of the organization you’re representing, that’s what it’s all about. So it’s both.

[00:50:00.59] spk_2:
Yeah, I’d love to end there, but we have another minute together,

[00:50:16.05] spk_1:
okay? Something I want to say. OK, say it in a minute. In a minute. Yeah, okay, from now, four minutes for a minute. I’m just not that smart When I was going to say

[00:50:22.92] spk_4:
was getting back to it when I was saying earlier that I looked in major gift officers like they were another species of human. If

[00:50:23.12] spk_1:
there’s anyone out

[00:50:49.49] spk_4:
there who’s thinking about the fields working as a gift officer, I just I see myself in part of the reason why I wrote The book is to be a champion for the field because I think it’s the best job in the world again, as I was saying, and it’s so powerful to be able to help make a difference for a cause and to meet wonderful people. And it’s, I feel very grateful that I stumbled upon this, and even if you think you couldn’t do it, you should still try it. If there’s an

[00:50:50.96] spk_1:
inkling

[00:50:51.42] spk_4:
of the suspicion you might want to do it, give it a try. Pursuant. Dip your toe into it. Maybe ask someone you work with to take you on a visit and experiment. And you might surprise yourself because I never would have thought 1,000,000 years. I’d want to do this. Now I feel like I’ve found my calling.

[00:51:07.92] spk_2:
That’s a great place to wrap it up. Great. Thank you so much. Miss Linker, professional fundraiser in education and author of No one Dreams of Being a Fundraiser. My unexpected journey from music to major gifts. Thank you again.

[00:51:16.38] spk_4:
Thank you very much.

[00:51:18.16] spk_2:
Next week, I promise I’ll talk less if

[00:51:21.22] spk_1:
you missed any part of today’s

[00:51:22.46] spk_2:
show, I beseech you. Find it on tony-martignetti dot com were

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sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond

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[00:52:49.06] spk_1:
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[00:53:18.48] spk_2:
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[00:54:55.74] spk_5:
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you love, or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history. It’s vibe. It’s field and its energy tune in live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio Die N.Y.C.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with santa chromium if you joined us me with the mere notion that you missed today’s show boost revenue with donorsearch vase john hayden and rachel muir reveal how to smartly and effectively survey your donors to increase revenue and grow your major gift pipeline. John is the ceo of inbound zombie, and rachel is vice president of training at pursuant that was recorded at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and discovery visits thes one on one meetings are critical to your prospect research maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder make sure you’re getting the most out of them that originally aired on july tenth twenty fifteen tony take two twitter responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers for non-profits we be spelling dot com? Here are john hayden and rachel muir on boosting revenue with donorsearch vase welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Coverage of sixteen ntc it’s the non-profit technology conference with the convention center in san jose, california with me now are john hayden on rachel bure. John hayden is yeah dahna ceo founder. Easy everything of inbound zombie. And rachel bure is vice president of training at pursuing before we begin with john and rachel, you have to do our a swag item of the of the interview, which you may have noticed a big, big green glass from wind streams. And inside is a charging charging box so you can charge your charge your usb device using and then at the same time, have your drink from win streak. Preacher, would you have that swag pile? Please take the charger out before you drink. It worked in the foreground, foreground of our swag pile, if you please. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. All right. Rachel. John, your topic is how did boost revenue with donorsearch vase. I don’t think people think of boosting revenue with older surveys, but so that’s spell that misconception. John, how is it that donorsearch vase can be used to boost revenue? Well, thie idea is that the more you understand your donors the more they’re going to feel heard, right? And then the more that they’re understood and they feel heard and they’re connected to the organization them or they’re going to support the organization, so don’t donorsearch is a really about understanding people that support your organization. So it’s part of ah multi-channel engagement strategy. Yes, you could say that it’s fair to say, rachel, this is one of our channels in our multi-channel strategy absolutely and it’s a really great tool for understanding what your donor’s interests are. So then you could target your appeals based on this interest, and you can talk to your donors about the one program that they care about and not the nine programs they don’t care about you okay? I don’t think i don’t think many people are thinking about surveys as a channel. I think they’re thinking about twitter and facebook and instagram as their channels, not a servant, all right? Yeah, i wouldn’t i wouldn’t say this survey zahra channel, i would say that surveys are almost like an approach, you know, too sir, because you could survey people on twitter you could survey people on facebook you could survey people with a surveymonkey app you khun survey people in a number of ways so it’s more like, you know, get feedback from donors, you know, approach to a channel. Yeah, exactly approach to a channel to a strategy for an engagement purpose. Exactly. Yes, i couldn’t have said it better. I couldn’t have said it worse. Okay, so let’s dive into this, you have some i can t example, i don’t feel like starting with the examples because then you have some do’s and don’ts, which we’ll get to. But you have some examples to share of good donorsearch practices. Rachel sure, yeah, we shared a example in oven online donorsearch ve in our session and it was a short six question survey that really focused on identifying number one. What donors communication preferences are how we doing on communicating with they are communicating to little just write too much. What? What air? The beneficiary preferences the donor has who does it don’t care about of all the target populations that the non-profit serves which one interest the donor the most some questions about you know what? What programs do they care about the most? Is that just some great basic? Questions that you can use to ask your donors and these were important because that was six question, yeah, six question, okay, you only important because these are all really important questions because donors give for their reasons, not ours, and the more and one of the points that john and i made in our session is, the more you find out you’re you’ve gotto ask when you ask these questions, you’ve got to be prepared to use them to use what you learned and then honor your donor’s preferences that they tell you i want to hear from you more, or i want to hear from you less or i want hear about this book, i’ve got to be prepared to be able to deliver on that so that you’re honoring their preferences. You’ve taken the time to find out, and you’re going toe near next up, it’s going to deliver on it. Okay, so we’ve got a preserve these responses not just use the to analyse survey, and then we get it not before. Yeah, we’ve got to make good on it and that’s what we want to because we want to be talking about what they care. About the more we talk to them about what i care about, where they’re going to give, the longer they’re going to stay with us, jon, otherwise, people are gonna feel unheard, yeah, totems of serving me, if you’re not going toe honor what i asked you to do. Exactly, yeah, okay, you got another, i can’t example for us, john, i can’t example, i’m only quoting from your text here, so is this text fortified? I persisted, it’s, somebody else wrote it. I don’t know what i doubt that, you know, you have no, it turns to blame too exuberant. Okay, you got some other examples. I can’t hear otherwise. Good serve, good serve a example. No. You know, we should see we shared another video example of using video. Yeah. Video. Yes. Sorry. I thought we were in this session. I was definitely the sessions that work you did? I did provoc way. So we shared a great example of using video using video to really take the donor right into the action. Take them right there in the field, allow them to release, give them an immersive experience where they can experience the donor’s work and then use that to open up a conversation with, um, wade love to talk to you. We want to learn more about what inspired you to give. We’d love to talk about what we’re doing. We want to do so respectfully if you’d like to hear from us, just click this button and we’ll set up a visit. So it’s a great way to have your donor raise their hand on their own and find out who wants to have a deeper relationship with you. Yes. Okay. It’s a little more about what was the content of that video? The video example that we shared was a great video for operation smile and it really took the viewer. First hand into the operating room, seeing these surgeries and seeing how marchenese cleft palate surgery’s how, how they impacted these families and these communities, and they heard stories from the program officers they heard stories from donors, doctors from doctors from the founder of the organization and the founder of the organization has a very respectful called action at the end where he says we’d love to hear from you. We want to do so respectfully, we’d love to hear your hopes would love to hear your wishes. Wait, if you’d like for us to call you and set up a visit, just click this button so it’s a really nice way using the emails since the donorsearch to a landing page with personalized you were all so they could track how the if the donor watches the video, how long they watch it for, and then invite the donor to respond and raise their hand if they’d like to have a visit. So it’s another tool to learn more about a donor’s interest and hopefully set up a visit. Okay, okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna john, i’ll give you a chance to rehabilitate. Duitz. I was just there for my looks and that’s it. You could say what not to ask, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you, rachel. Yeah, i was gonna get do’s don’ts. Thank you, teo. Grayce you think? Well, i’m talking, john, you want to scrap something? Yeah, there you go, that would help them if they want to sign. You know, i don’t know, i okay, let’s, move. Yes, duitz a note. Don’t you ask them how much they recently gave? Don’t ask them what they gave and these air no nose, because you should know this information, right? So if you ask them that right away out of the gate, they say, wow, what? What if it’s an anonymous server or we’re not, we’re not we don’t like anonymous service. No, we can’t, because we’re supposed to be a hundred preferences. They were not so from the kate we’re not talking about no, no, no, no. Yeah, and s so were were, you know, again the purpose of the surveys to understand the donor. So we’re collecting this information putting into the donor database so that we can follow up with appropriate communication. So if someone says, hey, i like cats versus dogs for an animal shelter. They’re going to get communication that’s about dogs, here’s, harold, the dogs that were saving and here’s what you can do to help change the life in a dog. So that’s, really, the purpose is to try and taylor the communication and connect the have basically have the donor have a voice in the in the cause. Okay, i understand. Rachel’s getting the pen out of swag out chili that’s. Okay. I mean, john is squeezing the clients, just ball. I’m a little nervous. Yeah. That’s. Okay, rachel got tomato, but i know you’re nervous because you’re doing so badly. I know he’s doing our angel holding its made of which is not squeezing she’s selling. Yeah, i would say. Okay, here’s, some morning lol i was going to give you some dues. Don’t don’t use complicated phd level language don’t use complicated language keep it short keep it simple sixth grade reading level literally experience meeting you wanted to be don’t use have it be all text used highly visualized examples that fit in with the organization’s mission think. Think of a buzzfeed stall quiz that you might take on facebook. Like what? Eighties band and my duran duran psychedelic furs, thie cures you know you you just see the images and you know how you’re going to vote. You barely even have to read the text. You wanna make it as easy for them to read is easy for them to do is possible. Okay. Okay. Really? Sixth grade level. All right. Any other don’t you don’t don’t use don’t send people to a website that looks horrible on a mobile device where they have to zoom in and look at the survey in order to fill it out. Don’t ask people twenty questions be very careful what you’re asking and the number of questions you know, twenty years too long twenties way too long is there arrange five or six? If you’re doing a survey to your whole group, just keep it short and simple. Five or six? Yeah, and i would say, don’t skimp on this subject line put as much thought into this subject line as you do your survey questions so that you get people to open it. We’ll talk about the subject line of the invitation email. Exactly. Put a lot of thought into maybe a test. Your subject line. Okay, so easy to do now we all should be tested. That’s. True. Yeah, i say be testing is like it’s. Like letting your donor’s vote on subject line that they like the best and then using that to send out to all the other people. It’s, basically, you know, having them help you write the email. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That was a good one. Good response. Join arms. I don’t mean the beginning of this catching ourselves ability, working bilich. Like getting out of prison. You were. Seriously, you’re not serious, man. Like a parole officer. You’re like the worst parole officer. You’re much better one. I’m much better on twitter, facebook way we’ve never met trump. I invite you you all this time, i’ve been holding you at bay. Yeah, exactly welcoming, but probably yeah. Okay hyre be horse that’s. Great, man. You’re a good sport. Yeah, i’m a good sport. Absolutely. You beat the crap out of you later on before you go. I am in a police state. Okay. Kruckel with affiliate. I will not oppcoll hyre all right. All right. We’ve exhausted. Don’t let’s. Look let’s. Focus on the positive. Yes. Do. Alright. Well, rachel, you hit some of that. You make it simple. Very visual, right? Visual, other deuce, other good practices. I would say. Try to integrate, serving your donors in multiple avenues. You know, you can send them a donorsearch juche. Khun, ask them questions after they you know, we talked about having just a comment box. What inspired you to make this gift on your donation form after they get your newsletter after an event after the gala, you know? There, there. Are multiple touchpoint where you can solicit feedback from your donor’s there’s a reason why you can’t go to old navy that buy something for my twins without me getting a survey about the experience and satisfactions and number one driver dahna loyalty. So think of other ways that you console is thatyou’re dahna speed back way also talked about donorsearch coll’s, which is kind of interesting. So when you think surveys right, you think, oh, the internet, we gotta use the website and all that stuff, but donorsearch coll’s kind of old school. You get five or six donors in a room, you know, very kind of, i guess, you know, committed long term donors. Maybe, you know, from different, maybe maybe a volunteer. Maybe a donor could just be a virtual room. It could be, you know, a real impersonal world. Yes. You meet them in person and you ask them questions. You know what made you decide it? Initially support the organization. You know what? You know what? What kind of stories really get you amped up? You know why? Why do you continue to support the organization and just have that open dialogue in the small? Group and i think often that khun b, that dialogue can be the kind of source to create the online survey, because then we know well what you know, when you start with an online survey, you might be asking, well, what do we even start with? But maybe the donorsearch kel is a good place to start, find out what are the key kind of issues or what the key preferences and then sussed that out throughout the throughout the database. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yep, okay, are there certain groups of donors that air better to try to engage in a survey than others like sustainers vs strictly annual donors or hyre plant e-giving donors vs others durney any distinctions across types of donors that we’re talking with or dealing with? That’s a great question, i would say surveys air really great for all your donors and it’s an opportunity for you to be able to identify who you’re sustainers prospects are and who playing, giving prospects are and really move those people from the annual fund up because you cared enough tto learn about what they care about, and you’re going to deliver on it so you’ve got you’ve increased your chances of deepening that relationship and deepening their involvement with the organization by asking them the survey because donors give for their reasons, not ours and it’s up to us to figure out what they are. I see a lot of fundraisers really trying to read their donors minds and wasting a lot of time and, you know, i like to say ask more questions, read les minds there’s someone it’s, it’s totally appropriate to say how do you like to be invited to make a gift? That’s a very respectful way to find out more about how someone does like to be invited to make a gift, and these are all you don’t have to try to read their minds. You can ask them these questions and learn a lot build a relationship in the process i can think of to gary with one music suggested. How do you like to be asked? How often? How often should we be approaching? Use is two or three times per year appropriate five times one time that’s a great example. We actually talked about that, you know you’re giving donors choice when you do that and that. That’s giving them control and that’s a really big part of them deepening their engagement with you. They want to have that control. We’ve got one study where an organization raised fifty percent more fifty percent more at their year and appeal because they gave those donors those choices win, do you? When do you want to hear from us? When do you want us to ask? How often do you want us to ask? They first proved the value of their communications and that’s something i would caution anyone to first do you know if if the first time you make a gift? If i ask you how much how often you won’t hear from me, you might say, not very much because you don’t know me yet, but once i proven the value of the communications and you do know and the donor doesn’t know the organization it’s really great to ask those questions. That’s a really great point. Thank you. Like i scored warning sixteen minutes and forty seconds. All right, john, you want a chance? A chance of what? Score a point? Okay asked me a question we’re talking about. Good, good. Good news. No, mistress. Yeah, eso so keep the language simple, very simple and use their words right don’t use any jargon that you might throw around in the, you know, internal meetings, use their words on dh focus a lot on visuals, actually, visuals drop people in the video is a great example. And actually, that video is very powerful because and the organization was alt-right smile training, you know, is it was operation smile operation, smile. Yeah, it was great. I mean, when the video was playing during our first session, i was kind of had tears in my eyes, you know? So that emotion drives the person take action, right? So at the end, you know, hey, tell us what we can do or contact us. We want to take the next step with you, that person probably more likely to take that action because that emotion, right? So i think that’s that’s really key is to try two focus on drawing people in emotionally and and appeal to that because that’s going to drive the action and there’s something like logic will logic drives a conclusion. So a logical solicitation koegler appeal, logical appeal drives a conclusion. An emotional appeal. Drives a response. Action? Exactly. Exactly. That’s crazy. You weren’t ten points to that. I love it. That was brilliant. No one gave you the authority to assess points. There’s a hostess that just here. You see the signs? Yes. Okay. Tony martignetti okay, he’s putting you in this company. I’m being put in my space and i think i’m being hard. I think john hayden may never come back co-branded before so yeah, people will google me at least. Who is this guy? John hayden he’s having a total failure on this video? Shit. You don’t even mention it. A credential here that you’re exactly facebook marketing for dummies proof that i am a dummy proof facebook marketing for demolition take himself too seriously and not at all. Okay. Secrets your favorite for-profit brands used to build loyalty let’s, start revealing some of some of these for-profit secrets. Well, they ask, i mean you you can hardly buy anything or do anything without being asked about your experience, right? I mentioned like the survey over the dressing rooms. I was the lighting and and they, you know, the best time to build on a great experience or fix a negative one is in the moment that it happened. And that’s why? Surveys are so great if you ask people honestly, you get a chance to interact in that experience before that donor becomes a lapsed owner and that’s. Why it’s great to be soliciting feedback often, often often and immediate. Yeah, depending on the engagement, right, depending on what that engagement was. Okay, okay. That’s a good one. Yeah, and actually, someone has a bad experience, you know, they might wait. One the question we asked to us. Have you ever had a bad haircut? You know? So you’re not going to tell your hair and i don’t. I don’t know if i’d have been here cut or not. Probably not right now, but, you know, if you have a bad haircut apparently, according to people i know if you have a bad haircut, you’re going to tell your friends, you know, whatever you do, don’t go to the hairdresser, but you’re not gonna tell the hairdresser, right? So it’s important to listen on follow-up and but but just being heard can often turn things around, and i think that way refer to the recovery paradox. Yeah, this is known in the for-profit sector. Is this service recovery paradox? Yep, service recovery so it says it says that if you do something really awful and it’s, someone has an awful customer experience if they feel heard, they are more likely. Teo, you know, support, you are loyal, but they’re going to be more loyal then if they never had a complaint in the first place and you don’t even have to fix the problem. That’s the good thing you don’t have to listen to it. Yeah, really? That’s the that’s? Why it’s a paradox like you would think if someone has negatives, something negative to say about your you know, organization or your business, you know, you you have to fix it. We gotta change this, but not necessarily you have to listen, something’s, you obviously can’t change, right? But just giving that person the opportunity to say how they feel and be heard. Then they say, wow, of all the brands of all the retailers of all the non-profits i sport, i feel hurt by these guys. Now they’re not doing everything i like, but i really liked them so that loyalty increases universes. The defensive, you know. Blaming the victim response? Yeah. Service. Yeah, exactly. And again, the bad haircut. Right? So if you don’t listen to them that person’s out there on the street telling their friends, hey, you know, whatever you do, don’t support these guys because they’re kind of, you know, not only did they do it wrong, but they don’t want to hear what i have to say. Also, you don’t want that on the street. Your customer donorsearch taking the time to share their opening up to you. If they didn’t care about you, they wouldn’t. They wouldn’t bother wait. They’re in their mind. They would waste a time sharing this bad if you are. Yeah, this person cares enough to tell. And eventually we all heard that that will increase their loyalty. That’s the parent? Okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got a couple more minutes together. What else? What else can we do? You have to depart. Rachel it’s. Okay, just you don’t have to do it silently. I’m going to turn off your mike so you don’t make a lot of noise. You’ll wake latto by rachel buy-in right now you’re gonna leave me with the, uh, heimans lackluster way. Go. Alright, let’s, finish this up. Tony that’s. So that’s. Rachel, you’re vice president of training at pursuing thank you, rachel. Thanks, rachel. Okay, john. All right. Great. So i hope that i just said we have a couple of minutes left, so don’t disappoint. Good. Okay. What? What else? What else is gonna be covered in this topic, or or what else was covered in? Well, i think, you know, i think i talked about the thing that we’ve tried to impress people with. The donor survey is not just a survey that you do once a year, once a quarter, but it’s almost like a mindset of creating upper every opportunity to follow up with the donor and listen to them. So, for example, we talked about when someone makes a first time donation, right? That’s a big deal. That’s. A pretty big deal. Hey! Wow, you you gave us money. Don’t! Why did you know what was what made you decide to do that? Someone gives a second time, right? If they give once that’s that’s great. But if they give a second time, it’s almost a miracle. So wow! What did we what are we doing? That drove you back to us twice reinforced the catch of a miracle. That is because we have a seventy percent donor attrition problem across non-profits in the u s absolute we’re losing seventy percent of our donors each year yet so it’s quite a big deal when somebody gives you that second? Absolutely. And then and then, of course, monthly, right? If someone says, hey, i gave once or twice here and there, but now i want to commit to a monthly program, right? I want to commit to that. Wow, you did that other yeah. So obviously these follow-up these donor-centric questions going different for each of the situations right on then also, you know, even on a donation form, having, like rachel said an open box that said, if you wanted, you know, if you have anything to tell us anything you want to share with us about why you’re supporting us, just type it in right here, just having this attitude of kind of b, you know, having an ear and being open there, listening to people and giving people opportunities to share how they feel, you know, even on, you know, i wrote facebook marketing for dummies and i’m always telling people yes, there’s facebook insights, you can look at all the data but read the comments on the posts, right? That’s, where you get all this really incredible personal stories, people sharing personal stories, what they think about certain issues, how they and you and also you learn their language, right? How are they talking about the cause we think we talked about has a, you know, communications person at a non-profit, you know, sometimes they get into jargon or talking about a cause in a certain way of thinking, they have to educate donors, but, you know, by reading comments really listen to donorsearch kind of understand their language, how they’re talking about it using their words, you know, okay, yeah, cool john all right, was that i think that’s a great rap, all right? Because i was so harsh to you. Yeah, i’ll give you a shout out. You should be following john hayden on twitter he’s at john hey, because he is very good who does have a lot of good content and it’s not only about facebook, email anything put candy, you know, five tips five think you sort of known for five of these seven of these quick tips very tactical there’s that value yet. But you also go deeper to oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, and i’ve weekly webinars i do free webinars called the hump day coffee break and it’s just, you know, people show up, look at wednesday’s eleven and, you know, have a cup coffee, learned something and leave and that’s it, you know? So yeah. So i feel like i told you that. Great. We’ll let you have it. Thank you. Well, thank you for the opportunity. Really do appreciate it. And it was fun. I have very thick skin, so i had a great time. Honestly, tell your friends about not probably. I do. Do i tweet about it? I know you tweet about it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. John hayden, he’s he’s. Everything around inbound zombie. They do. Marketing consultant. Exactly. Thank you. Took it. And you are listening and viewing tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference wrapping day one with john hayden and rachel muir. Or we’ll be back on day two. Of course, on the day three stay with us. Discovery visits. We have maria. Simple coming up first pursuant you know them, they have fund-raising management tools that are ideal for small and midsize shops perfect for our listeners. They fill your potential donor pipeline that keep your fund-raising on task, time against goal and all the individual fund-raising task day after day, week after week that you need to track, they’ll keep you managing those making sure that your time is is probably focused. So you’re meeting goal pursuant dot com we’d be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising this is not your mother’s spelling bee, not even the ones from seventh grade there’s too much fun, they’re enormously interactive, including dancing and there’s also stand up comedy and the comics i’ve seen are quite funny live music too. Facilitate that dancing note there’s no deejay thing here is live music so you got a concert you get stand up comedy there’s dancing fund-raising, of course, and they squeeze the spelling bee in there too. I love what they’re all about it’s really very cool, it’s. Very different. They have a video that shows it all at we b e spelling dot com now tony steak too. Meet me on twitter i love i have a lot of fun on twitter. Even people cite that hundred forty character limitation, but that’s nonsense because if if the conversation is getting detailed, you go into direct messages. And if you if you want to keep it public, then you just do multiple one hundred forty character messages. So, uh, seems kinda old to be hope you not put off by one hundred forty characters. It’s fun, you know, it’s it’s immediate. Um, i get a lot of guests that way. I get a lot of listeners of the weak that way. Twitter’s very cool. So if you’re not following, you could check me out at tony martignetti be grateful as i always am. If you re tweet about the show talking about the show, let your followers let your network know that you’re into non-profit radio and, uh, yeah, check me out. Sabelo please say hello on twitter that’s tony’s take two it’s just that simple live listener love it’s got to go out you know, it’s coming gratitude, gratitude and love to all our live listeners whatever city, state country you are in your listening now and i appreciate it live love to you i will spare you the diatribe about then versus now, when we’re pre recorded this week podcast pleasantries, they go out right after the live love they go pleasantries to our many, many podcast listeners are lots of different platforms for podcast listeners. There’s still that one in germany hanging in there we get like thirty or forty hits ah month from his podcast dot d i think, but itunes the vast, vast majority stitcher number two platform and then there’s like player dot fm and pod bay and podcast and smaller ones. But whatever platform you’re getting, the the the show from pleasantries to you and our affiliate affections right on the heels of the podcast pleasantries i know where platforms you’re getting it from our am and fm affiliate stations throughout the country and i am grateful to you affections to the many affiliate listeners on stations all around the country. Here’s maria simple originally from the july tenth show last year on discovery visits you also know maria simple she’s, the prospect finder, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best. Donor prospects now she’s on a diet of dirt cheap and free. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple welcome back, maria maria so i gave the screen here. How are you? Where you been? What’s going on there? What do you think? That’s? Too much that’s too much. I had myself on mute while you were doing on minute announcements there. Sorry about that. Um, i’m glad you’re with me. Welcome back. Absolutely. Thank you. Pleasure. We’re talking about discovery visits today. These, uh, he’s let’s define a discovery visit. And then once you explain why you think they’re so critical to prospect research, well, you know, as prospect researchers, unfortunately, we don’t have access to every little piece of information that would be useful for you. As you’re thinking about cultivating or soliciting someone so actually sitting down face to face with a donor is going to yield so much insight about what motivates them, why they love your organization and potentially yield larger gifts for you down the road. I blogged this a while ago, and it may be one of the first times that you and i met online because you commented on it. But i don’t think you were on this show at this point, but i blogged the value of face-to-face meetings, and i was not diminishing prospect research online and all through all the resource is that you and i have talked about from chambers of commerce and libraries toe online resource is wasn’t diminishing those, but yeah, the value that you get from having lunch with someone i happen to like doing it over meals, but whether it’s over meals or a meeting in their office or a site visit to your place there’s going be great. Um, you just pick up so much just by talking to somebody for for an hour? Yeah, yeah, and and definitely even in the body language alone. So if you start steering that conversation in a certain direction and you see people getting uncomfortable or fidgety or ah, in the opposite way, if maybe they start leaning in and leaning forward and looking like they’re really engaged with with what you’re talking about, perhaps a new program that you’re looking toe launch and get funded, all of that can yield so much great information for you. Sometimes it could be a little awkward. You hear things that you, you’re not sure how to document, and we’ll talk about the importance of doing that, like, you know, they don’t really like the ceo or your boss, you know, are there glad that you’re at the lunch with them and not this other gift officer? Yeah, and you do have to be careful about that. How you document that? Because, you know, a donor does have the ability to walk into your organisation at any time and say, let me see what donorsearch crowds you have on me. So you think you would want to document it in as a subject in an objective manner i should say objectively think of yourself as a a nen vested gate of reporter, right? When you’re trying to write down what the comments are so you might, you know, just right. You know, they did not seem particularly interested in the new x y z program and period end of story. Now we’re talking about the documentation it’s critical to save this in your hopefully you have a c r m database, right? A donor database cr m someplace. This has tio this information, you know, it’s what? We call, i guess, institutional memory, right? And you’re not going to put me in jargon jail for that? Are, you know, that’s a pretty straightforward one, okay, i’m enjoying for well, if if you as a development officer or is an executive director, sit down and have a conversation with someone and then you decide to leave the organization a year later. Ah, and then the new person takes over and goes in and has a visit with this long time donor sort of starts asking that same set of questions that donor’s going to kind of look at him like, don’t you already know this? Because i’ve already talked to your predecessor about what my interests were, etcetera. So you really do need to make sure that you are taking, you know, the time and it’s time well worth, you know, spent just documenting what happened during the conversation. What were the critical point? What were the things that need to be followed up on? You know, maybe it’s a timing issue. Maybe they say, well, you know what? This is a really bad time for my family right now, but in two years we feel that our finances will be in a different situation, you’ve got to get that documented and that’s an ideal example of one of the many, many things that you’ll find out from talking to somebody that you’ll never find online or any other resource is i don’t lose its talking, you gotta you gotta drop people out and and they love your work, otherwise they wouldn’t be meeting with you, so they’re happy to talk about what it is they love how, how their situation can impact your organization. I mean, positively or negatively, you know, like you’re saying, this is not a good time for us, you know, we just had a downturn in my business or from death in the family or, you know, whatever i mean stuff you’re not going to find out anywhere else than talking to people, you’re absolutely right. And, you know, one of the interesting things too, is you sometimes when i’m having conversations with with a non-profit maybe it a networking event or at a conference or something, and i’ll last generally how is your fund-raising going and then steer the conversation towards you know well, you know, when was the last time you had a chance to meet with who you would consider to be your top ten donors, and they kind of look at you like, uh, am i supposed to be regularly meeting with on donors? Oh, boy, yeah. That’s ah that’s yeah, that’s where the person in charge of development needs to be stewarding and managing up the, you know, the sea level people and that maybe that’s only one person may be the ceo is executive director is all there is but that, you know, yeah, yeah, you’ve got to be managing up and making sure that these relationships are nurtured with your your most important donors. You’re most important volunteers as well. Yeah, and if you don’t have the time to do it as a staff member, get your board involved. This is a perfect role for a board to get involved in. Even your board members who say, i hate to ask for money. I’ll do anything for this organization just don’t make me ask for money and it’s so simple for them to just go in and have it really a conversation you know you can provide them with, you know, prompt them with a list. Of questions that they might consider asking this individual, but it really is a conversation all about discovering what is this donor-centric about why are they giving any money to you at all when you know, when did they start? And, you know, where do they see themselves going with your organization? As a consultant, i do hardly and, you know, i don’t i don’t meet with donors and potential donors alone ever and very few of the visits that i am on our discovery visits, you know, where we don’t know the person all that well, but when i was a director of planned giving at a couple of colleges, i should do these all the time, and i remember my head’s spinning with oh, i don’t remember that, but i’m trying to stay in the conversation, too, but you can’t take notes while you’re having lunch, but i remember my head swimming over my gosh, i can’t remember that and that. Oh, and this news about his sister and that relationship, you know? Oh, you know, but there’s so much too, and you get back to the office and you just have to spill it all out and i agree with you, i usedto have ah, client, who said never write anything about someone potential donor or donor at anybody boardmember that you wouldn’t want them to read basically the same standard you had when you said someone could come in the office any time and ask what you have on them. That’s fine, you know, today with with technology having advanced right, i’m hoping that people who were in those positions that you were holding at that time in the plan giving departments and and so forth are using their smartphones and the recording feature not to record the conversation, but afterward, once the meeting has ended and you’re getting back into your car or getting to a quiet place, you know, in, you know, a different space or something like that, just data dump it right in by voice because you can speak a lot faster. Most people can speak much faster than they can write or type, so why not just get it in that way? And then if if you needed to, you know, use a transcription service of some sort to then get it into a print format and then edited from there. I think you know, that could be a particularly great way to use technology. Yeah, great. Cool tip. I like that. You’re right. You can dump into a voice memo. Excellent. I also like your idea of using board members for this purpose idea. We’ve we’ve talked about it, but good many times, but good to mention that also, this is ideal for board members for organizations that have a prospect research person. Do you think that these contact well, i’m going to call them contact report? Because as we used to call them at the colleges, should they flow through the prospect researcher? Or should they go right into the c r, m database and then it’s a prospect researchers job follow-up and read them how does? Because the prospect researcher is the the focal point of a lot of this, the prospect activity? How should this info get to the to that person? Well, you know, it really again depends on the size of the department and the type of cr m that you’re using and who has access to it because some will allow you no board members to have access and others won’t. So then clearly if it’s your boardmember that needs to be providing the information in many cases, they’re not going to have access two, uh, to that database, so don’t need to get it to that prospect. Researcher some other way. If it is ah development officer who does have access to the database. And i do recommend that they inserted directly themselves. If it’s a small organization, if it’s a larger organization with multi level, then you know you would want to make sure that there are certain procedures in place for me. No, but certainly the prospect researcher in some way, shape or form should be alerted that there’s been an update to that record in case there’s, you know any additional updated information that they need to provide? Yeah, right. It could be a simple is ah, niu ah, new email address or you are. Whatever new relationship. Ah, i know. In the in the colleges where i worked which bigger organizations, they the prospect researcher was the like. I said the focal point, and they would pull out something from a prospect research report that would say, oh, you know i should. This is consistent with this other contact report that i read for this other person done by a different gift officer. And these two need to be talking to each other for whatever reason, that was always that was always the done through. The prospect researcher i don’t know is that it makes sense to you. Yeah, yeah, it does. Absolutely. And i can tell you that, you know, having attended various conferences in the past that are, you know, attended by prospect researchers. They would love to be on every one of these donordigital covering visits, making sure that the right questions get asked and so forth. Okay, so this should be from training there, maybe maybe training the gift officers by the prospect researcher. When again, when it’s an organization that has prospect research. I understand a lot of listeners organizations problem may not. But if you do, should there be some training that the prospect researcher was doing for the gift officers? Yeah, absolutely. There should be some sort of training and in terms of not only what they confined online, if they needed to find some information quickly. What are some of the go to resource is when they’re out on the road? Etcetera. But also, you know what air the typical questions you should be sitting down and asking of every single donor and prospect and, you know, ah, good development officer, this should really be intuitive and second nature for them. Um, but if there’s somebody fairly new in the role, or if it’s an executive director who is, you know, that that’s it that’s the only person there is no development officer on, perhaps they’ve been so very used to running an organization and and the day to day management of the organization that they really haven’t gone down the road of of getting trained on, you know how to ask the right questions to elicit the responses we need to move this prospect forward. We’re gonna go out for a break. Marie and i will keep talking about this a little bit. And then she also has, um, unconference dates coming up this summer. That would be valuable for your prospects, research or stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy, tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Got more live listeners in san francisco, california live love going out to there now podcast listeners and affiliate listeners. Did you think i forgot? How how could you live? Listener love always is accompanied by podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections very grateful to all the podcast listeners wherever, whatever device, whatever you’re doing, i love having you with us and all those affiliate listeners in the many stations across the country affections out too. Our am and fm affiliate listeners perish the thought that i would forget podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections. Maria, any last thoughts you want to leave us with on discovery visits and before we move teo unconference ideas? Well, you know, really, just to figure out what what is a donor’s? Why, right? That that’s, what you’re looking to get to understanding there, why to the heart of why they’re investing in your organization and, you know, try and use that language when you’re speaking with them, you know, why are you investing in us? What? What motivates you to continue supporting us? What do you like best about our non-profit? And you know what? Can we actually improve? So try and really elicit some good conversation from them and, you know, you’ve probably heard that old adage tony asked them for money and they’ll they’ll offer you advice and asked him for advice, and they’ll offer you some money. So, you know, it’s a great way to get people engaged in your organization, so don’t be afraid to start those conversations, even if somebody proposes something or says something a little bit on the negative side, take it as constructive criticism and look for areas of improvement. Yeah, you’ve got to hear the negative and a lot of what you’re what you’re suggesting comes out organically, you know? I mean, the person knows that you’re there to talk about the organization, you know, they’re talking about politics or hopefully you keep politics off the table. I always think that’s a bad idea for these kinds of visits, but yeah, they’re talking about the organization that’s, what the two of you have in common, so, you know, a lot of that stuff just gets elicited. I love this program, or i didn’t understand this or i didn’t know you’re doing this thing, but i just read about it in the newsletter, and you know that. Stuff. I mean, you’re right. Ask if it’s not coming out, but a lot of times, it just happens organically because right that’s what you have in common. That’s what? You share, right? Right. All right. So ah, you gots unconference ideas for us. Prospect. Researchers like to meet during the summer. Yeah, absolutely. So the biggie for prospect researchers is the international conference that happens every summer for apra, which is the association of professional researchers for advancement. And this year the conference takes place in new orleans, metoo and it’s going to be july twenty second to the twenty fifth, and they actually also have ah, a new researchers symposium as part of that, uh, they have a full day symposium just for new researchers. So this is a great way to get i think, you know, a full day in, um ah, dedicated to a newbie. And, you know, if you’re just getting your feet wet in this whole thing about prospect research, that might be something well worth while attending. Are you going to the international conference? I will not be going this year. I’m actually attending other conferences, but, you know, this one is definitely if you’re thinking about prospect researchers, this really is the one to consider. Um, you know, there are fall conferences that, you know, we just missed a few conferences that are more regional. So, like in new england, there’s, an organization called nedra, the new england development research association, they they had a conference in april, it was not researchers let’s not look okay, let’s not look backwards, let’s go forwards, but but the good thing about it is that some of those organizations will still put the presentation’s in powerpoint on the website so still perhaps worth just checking into even if you book market for next year. If you’re in those regions, certainly something to think about seeing what what have they shared from the past conference? Cause you might be able to just do a little, you know, your own online learning are these all apra chapters that we’re talking about? Yeah, yeah, they really are there. They’re more regionalized chapters of research association years ago, i spoke a couple of apra chapters, i think in new york and new jersey years ago, back when i know i’m not even sure i was consulting at the time. Maybe more than twelve years ago, but glad they’re still around. Okay, what else? What else you got besides the international? Also coming up in arizona? There’s going to be a false symposium on the topic of campaigns and that’s going to be held november fifth through the sixth in tempe, arizona. So that might be one to consider. And also in california, they have several events going on. The california advancement researchers association have several things on their website, so i’d be glad to share some of these links on your facebook page, if you like and then people can check them out, and if they’re in those regions and see if they want to attend. I love it. Why did you do that? As a comment to the takeaways that’ll be posted around four o’clock eastern today? Sure. Okay. That’s outstanding. We still have another minute or so left. What’s uh, what’s going on in. Oh, i’m sorry. There are the conferences or that you got it. That’s covers it. You know, i think because several have already passed. Those were the ones that i really found that i thought you know, were sprinkled throughout in different places. That you might consider going tio okay, sounds good. Tell me, uh, yeah, now we just have about a minute or so, right, sam? So what what’s going on in your world, what you’re seeing among your clients in our last minute, you know, well, i’m definitely seeing a tick up in activity, capital campaigns and so forth. So, you know, it’s great to see that good news came out with e-giving yusa numbers, and i think that that generally just kind of buoys people a little bit and their spirits. So i am seeing more activity and more research requests because of these larger campaigns and the need to research some of these high net worth individuals before visiting them. So in general, i think it’s it’s all good news. Okay, glad you’re optimistic looks so a beat. Andi, you’re going to be back with me in two shows on july twenty fourth for the two hundred fifty of show. Yes, you’re going to here in the studio? Cool, i will. All right, looking forward to it will be nice to have you institute a sze yu wei would say in latin i’m fluent in latin is a worthless skill, but thank you very much. Good to see you. Good to talk to you. Thank you. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter at maria simple next week. Have i ever let you down? Well, maybe there was that one show on fermenting, possibly. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuing dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam lied. Wits is the line producer gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez on our music is by scott stein. Thank you for that, scotty. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be green. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s, not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio Knowledge Base: Board Fundraising

 

It’s critical. And I know it’s a big, big problem for a lot of nonprofits.

Major Gifts 2.0: Straight Talk For Your Board [video]. Get a CEO’s perspective on board fundraising! My guest is Jennifer Herring, CEO of The Maritime Aquarium.

With Deborah Stanley from Blackbaud, A Board That Brings In The Bucks. She wants you to lose the fear of asking!

Your Board Can Fundraise with Dennis Miller, consultant.

From a few weeks ago, Your Board On Grants, with regular contributor Cindy Gibson. Our discussion applies to all fundraising, really.

Here’s the first Knowledge Base article, on Branding.

BOOst Your Major Gift Asks With Planned Gifts

Image courtesy of Pink Sherbet Photography, Creative Commons license
Image courtesy of Pink Sherbet Photography, Creative Commons license

A strategy to improve your major gift solicitations: include planned gifts.

When you ask a prospect for a major gift, include a planned gift. It can be as simple as a bequest in the will; as middle-of-the-road as a charitable gift annuity; or as high-end complex as a charitable lead trust.

You’ll have to beat off the gifts with your broomstick!

The Planned Giving addition adds a dimension to your solicitation. Now you have more to talk about if your prospect balks at the outright ask. You can reduce the outright ask and add more to the planned gift.

It’s best if you don’t add dollar-for-dollar because the planned gift won’t mean cash to you until the donor’s death. The exception is a lead trust, but those are quite rare. Instead, add to the planned gift the future value of what you’re not getting outright. Here’s a future value calculator.

You’ll have more to negotiate around. The negotiation dance is one witch is critical after your ask.

The added planned gift can also act as a straw man. It’s harder for your prospect to turn down both the major gift and the planned gift. Gutting the planned gift out of the solicitation–like a pumpkin becomes a jack-o-lantern–makes it more likely the major gift remains intact.

The greatest success I’ve seen with this arises because you’ll have more variables in your solicitations. There’s more to talk about and listen to.

Talk half as much as you listen and you’ll have bewitching successes with your major gift solicitations.

P.S. This is part of October’s Nonprofit Blog Carnival, Major Gifts Tricks and Treats, hosted by Claire Axelrad.