Tag Archives: 20NTC

Nonprofit Radio for September 21, 2020: Your Leadership Pipeline & True Consultant Love

My Guests:

Dennis Miller: Your Leadership Pipeline

Dennis Miller returns to encourage you to identify and develop future leaders in your nonprofit. He explains what goes into your leadership development plan. He’s president of Dennis C. Miller Associates.

 

 

Loree Lipstein & Tracy Shaw: True Consultant Love

If your leadership pipeline is lackluster, you’ll have to hire outside talent. Our 20NTC panel helps you pick the right match for a great consulting relationship. They’re Loree Lipstein and Tracy Shaw from thread strategies.

Loree Lipstein Tracy Shaw

 

 

 

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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[00:00:33.94] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of declare veins if you inflamed me with the idea that you missed today’s show Your leadership pipeline. Dennis Miller returns to encourage you to identify and develop future leaders in your non profit.

[00:00:40.74] spk_0:
He

[00:02:08.74] spk_1:
explains what goes into your leadership development plan. He’s president of Dennis C. Miller Associates and true consultant Love. If your leadership pipeline is lackluster, you’ll have to hire outside talent. Our 20 NTC panel helps you pick the right match for a great consulting relationship. There are Laurie Lips Teen and Tracy Shaw from Thread Strategies. Antonis. Take two. A change to plan giving accelerator response erred by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives, raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot Emma slash dot for a free demo and a free month. I’m very pleased to welcome Dennis Miller back to the show. He is a nationally recognized expert in non profit leadership, executive search, strategic planning and board and leadership performance coaching with more than 35 years experience. Once upon a time, he was president and CEO of Somerset Medical Center and Foundation in New Jersey. Now he’s president of Dennis C. Miller Associates. He’s at Dennis c. Miller dot com. Welcome back then. It’s similar,

[00:02:10.84] spk_0:
All right. Great to be back. It feels like being back home. It’s great.

[00:02:14.60] spk_1:
Back home. Good

[00:02:16.44] spk_0:
a long time. I’ve always, you see since grammar school because distinguished myself

[00:02:20.35] spk_1:
from the that from that comic Dennis.

[00:02:24.23] spk_0:
And I just tell people I’m actually funny today. It’s so that’s right from

[00:02:27.57] spk_1:
the fraud. Yeah, he’s the fraudster. You’re the original. All right. Dennis Charles.

[00:02:32.68] spk_0:
His mother gave him my name. Put it that way.

[00:02:36.04] spk_1:
Yeah, very good. Alright, alright. So leadership are non profits. Not doing a good job bringing up talent from their ranks. What are you seeing, Dennis?

[00:03:07.04] spk_0:
What’s not necessarily that they’re not doing a good job. I just think there’s not a focus that they need tohave here. I mean, I tony, I tell a lot of people that typically today with, you know, Kobe 19 this is the time to do a number of key things. Shopping up your vision, shopping up your board, shopping up your branding flans me. But really, a lot of tension has to be paid to assess your leadership talent from within new organization. I mean, you know this quite well. I’m sure your listeners to is that the thing that makes an organization successful is not the bricks and mortar it’s of people. And we need to invest as much as our in our own people as we possibly can, because there are our future leaders. So it’s really crucial that we take a step up and invest in our leadership development.

[00:03:31.01] spk_1:
How do we distinguish between folks who have leadership potential on dhe? Those who don’t

[00:03:56.64] spk_0:
well, a couple things first and organization really should do is think about what its overall strategic goals or for an organization, and then looking at every position they have in the table of organization as any level of management, whatever one of the conferences that one needs toe have to succeed in that job, particularly if that job becomes available. What we do is that we do an assessment of each leadership person and When I say leadership, I’m not talking about the top level

[00:04:03.53] spk_1:
people. This is not only for CEO. Yeah,

[00:04:48.94] spk_0:
this is for everybody that has a title of supervisor, part time, weekend outreach coordinator. Whatever this is, the leadership of support term for us is the kind of we do an assessment of them to our farm to Alexis. And it really kind of measures core attributes. Um core attributes the things along, the lines of reasoning, ability of people contact their attitude, their sense of urgency will take charge. There’s things like that. They’re competitive. So once you assess their core traits, not court aptitudes core traits, you can then put together a development plan for those core traits and kind of move people on which I’ll happy to explain. But it’s really assessing where someone is and give me a plan of action to develop. So they become for productive and more forceful as a leader going forward.

[00:04:53.54] spk_1:
Do you feel that anybody has leadership potential if they’re if they’re brought along the right way? Or they’re just some folks that are not are not meant to be leaders.

[00:05:03.04] spk_0:
Yeah, Well, listen, you know, there are people I think you can learn to be a leader. I think that I think I learned to be a leader. I think there’s some people that certainly are born probably with certain attributes or genetics that predisposed them towards a leadership position, something sometimes. But I clearly think people can can learn to be a leader and certainly buy things in their environment or things in their life that they have to make choices on. So I think people can develop if they want to. But here’s Brian saying Everybody you have to choose and decide You wanna be a leader And I think there’s a lot of ways of helping people become leadership. But it’s a question, if you wanna, you wanna be a leader. If you wanna be a leader, you wanna be one. Yeah,

[00:05:42.56] spk_1:
all right, that’s true. A lot of folks may not aspire to that. They’re just absolutely don’t know. They don’t want to supervise other people and,

[00:05:49.84] spk_0:
well, you know. And there’s a

[00:05:52.27] spk_1:
place for them as well. Of

[00:05:55.14] spk_0:
course it you and I know that the future and even today I mean we need leadership we need. Teoh is a people business. We’re in and so we need to develop or potential. Those are assets.

[00:06:05.64] spk_1:
Well, I know you chose to be a leader because one of your books is mopping floors to CEO. Yeah, I know you’re you’re chuckling, but that’s your book title.

[00:06:53.64] spk_0:
Yeah. What is it? You know, I I’ve had a successful 35 40 year career, but I started out really difficult challenges. And I did actually my floors when I was, you know, young man and was sort of homeless and went to a very difficult time in life, and and I chose to become a leader, and I ended up becoming a, you know, CEO and had a long term career of 25 years of medical, business and corporate executive and CEO of two hospitals. And I had my own business for 16 years, so I chose to be a leader. Absolutely. But, um, you know, I think that we need to sort of, you know, uh, the issue was also about, um, confidence and developing self confidence to people that they can be leader. And I think you know, most people somewhat lack some level of self conference. Some people, as you know, have too much self confidence and probably not riel, but I think tony to a lot of people. Given the opportunity to experience that chance, I think people will grow with it. I mean, no one gets to be a major league baseball player without starting with Tebow or literally. So. I think that, um, but I just to me is really important. It’s not not something we could do tomorrow. We don’t You could do this without any, almost without any dollar investment. But if we don’t invest in our people and training our people give people a chance to grow and develop. No one stays in a job forever, and it’s really crucial, particularly in any sector. But it’s not public sector, which is really the glue that keeps our communities together through these difficult times. And this is the worst time I can in 100 years, at least for this country, for the world leadership of development. And so what is the what are the benefits? When you tell people that you’ve been selected to be part of a leadership development program, it inspires enthusiasm. The morale goes up, retention goes up. People feel a sense of future

[00:08:11.34] spk_1:
I was just gonna ask you, Do you tell folks that they’re in a leadership pipeline? Leadership will tell someone Way leadership potential in you.

[00:10:00.34] spk_0:
Yeah, I think One of the ways way. Do it. Twofold. One is to start with, just, you know, hopefully everybody has some form of performance evaluation system. So to evaluate people, how they’re performing on those, whatever they might be a those top 20% performers, whatever they have earned the chance to be in sort of. What do you want to call your own organizational, leadership, academy or institute? Whether you have 50 people working with you or 500 people working, too, you want to kind of identify those people based on their performance. Then those people have not made the grade. You could explain to him what you need to do to make the great so you could motivate them to say, Listen, you need to beam or focus on working with others. Well, not just yourself, so you can point out the thing that they need to do to get into that leadership club here. It’s a huge reward to do that, and then obviously there’s a lot of things that one can dio and the types of courses one can take online courses using your own staff as mentors. There’s a whole range of things to focus in on, but clearly there’s a lot of leadership conferences today that we need to use to successfully leader organization. But we didn’t use yesterday, so I’ll give you a couple examples you clearly today more than before, visionary thinking is crucial. Compensate. That has to have, I mean, mission support. Mission focused is crucial but visionary thinking. It’s important relationship building. It’s a simple thing, but clearly how well you can earn people’s trust. Respect your passion for the organization, Emotional intelligence is a huge issue to be able to be able to identify and grow. Used to be I Q. Now it’s like you entrepreneurial spirit, having the ability to understand that today you know most of our funding is not going to come from public sources, and most of our, uh, you know, funding, particularly with Kobe. 19. This the federal government statement cameras. We’re running out of money so don’t dependent on public funding together. But on tomorrow, Spirit Mayor convinced people to invest in your success. That’s it’s fun. You issue of collaboration wth issue of being a motivational leader of vision will be able to be successful succession planner s. So there’s a lot of conferences that people need tohave today and the skills that need to have going forward and not necessarily the skills that led people to success in the past. So today there’s new companies that needed, and we need to encourage people to develop those.

[00:10:47.67] spk_1:
All right, so you can you identify these? I mean, you’re not gonna find somebody who’s got all these competencies? I don’t think, but you’re you want toe identify people who have potential, right? I mean, maybe they they think they think broader, you know, they think market wise. So that gives them a broader a broader perspective. So that’s that’s encouraging on. Maybe they’re on top of that. They work well with others, but you’re not gonna find somebody’s got all these, you know, 68 competencies. Right? But you’re looking for you’re looking for potential in folks, right?

[00:12:29.76] spk_0:
Yeah. Nobody is perfect. Nobody has everything myself included. Clearly what you want to do is focus on where people are at today. So what are their best attributes today and give people enough because there’s thousands and thousands of people every day who are visionary thinkers in our own communities, but give people an opportunity to be exposed to it. So let him explain What? What does it mean to be emotionally intelligent? What does it mean to be able to regulate your own emotions? What does it mean to be able to identify the emotions of others, to make sure that your own emotions are causing, uh, friction within other people? So how do you respond to people’s emotions? So there’s a lot of things one can learn what can learn about governance, what can learn about flan to be what can learn AA lot of things, how to develop goals and follow through and give people an opportunity to it. But if we don’t sort of seed if we don’t seek ways of training, are currently has become better and are potential leaders become even better emerging leaders, we’re gonna be on the show. So we have to focus on as much as we can developing people.

[00:12:32.87] spk_1:
All right, we’ve identified these people, by the way you might hear some background noise. I have some work going on on my deck up above me. So in case you here’s some background sawing or pulling boards up or anything, that’s what’s going on.

[00:12:49.07] spk_0:
It

[00:13:07.64] spk_1:
z unavoidable. So all right, way to identify these people? How do we invest in them in their futures? Or do we? Is it a matter of sending them toe professional development courses? Is it giving them mentors? Is it broadening their responsibilities in the organization? How do we develop these, these folks?

[00:13:45.84] spk_0:
What’s a couple of things and your questions right on the money. So it’s a every organization. Just as you have a strategic plan and you have a business plan and operating budget plan, you should have a leadership development plan. And what does that mean? Just what you said here. So sometimes you wanna be able to, uh, creators and met the ship. So who would The organization would be a good mentor, Somebody else’s to identify your mentors. Mentors and coaches here identify potentially some their courses or topics that one can teach about sort of through a lunch and learn. Uh, there are. We are firm. We have online courses. We have an online course called How to become a high performing, non profit executive leadership team. A CEO’s guide. The organizational success So you could take this course relative very inexpensive, a tw home in your office on your mobile app. And so there’s ability to interact with that. There are certainly a books one take their certainly things on the website. You can think so, But if you wanna let people put somebody in charge of your leadership development for maybe or HR executive, maybe you’re Cielo. But anybody here? So you want to stop. Wish more of a formal leadership development program, just as you would with anything else here, just as you wouldn’t and you’ve developed. You have a development plan, a fundraising. But how do we get more donors dollars? There’s an effort put into that right. You hire someone, you have a program. We have a plan. You might bring an outside consultant. Focus in on your leadership development the same way here. I think that you can clearly think about this. If you’ve been identified as a potential method that makes you feel good. Also, to know that you’ve been recognized as someone who could be a mentor here, So this has a really, really positive feature here. So if you assess people’s talent, you do have to assess people’s talents based upon their performance and again people our farm. We have something called Alexis, which we measure people’s core attributes and things like that, but certainly, um, development program.

[00:16:02.84] spk_1:
It’s time for a break turn to communications. The world runs on relationships we know this turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists when you wanna be heard because there’s breaking news and you wanna show yourself as a thought leader in your field, those relationships are going to help you get heard because journalists are gonna take your calls because they already know you turn to specializes. In working with nonprofits, they understand the community. One of the partners was an editor at The Chronicle of Philanthropy. They’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to your leadership pipeline with Dennis Miller. Is this a program that’s for individuals? It’s individually tailored or it’s a It’s a leadership or professional development program that is universal for for all all the potential talent we

[00:17:24.24] spk_0:
see, I think as an organization, I think you should have overall organizational, um uh, leadership development plan, just as you would in order overall organization plans. We plan. So overall one. Now, just as you have a plan for annual giving and playing, giving and major gifts and grants things like that and then each person that was that in your employment, each person that’s part of your team should have their own individual sort of plan assessment based upon their own personal. That’s what they need to do. So example here, if they’re assessing, they find that their you know their their reasoning ability as well. They enjoy people contact, but maybe do not take charge. So now you have to find a way to help them build their self conference so they could take charge so each each other, assess each person individually at the same time having any part of the group here. That’s how it works. It’s like coaching sports team. You have a team, you know, whether the Yankees or the Mets or the Dodgers. Whatever. You have a team out there players, but each person is also coach in your position, so that’s how you do it. You

[00:17:24.48] spk_1:
mentioned mentoring could be could be valuable, say a little more about that. I feel like there’s not enough. I feel like it’s not enough attention paid

[00:17:31.90] spk_0:
Thio your your friend or family next, tony. But I think I look at myself here. I mean, telling yourself here, I asked, You know, your listeners, Has anybody ever meant that you have? You had a mentor and I’ve had a number of mentors and they’re just people toe the surrogates and supporters, people that maybe there were role model to you. So someone, you know, that’s that’s probably the best thing if there’s anything that you kind of listen come away from today is is is you know, think about the idea of mentorship just where your organization can. You have people become, you know, become a member.

[00:18:16.94] spk_1:
Let’s let’s talk. Let’s drill down because I’ve had other guests, you know, talk about the value of mentoring. But but and you’ve said you’ve had many mentors, what does it look like? Do you schedule a bi weekly or a monthly? Our together

[00:18:21.86] spk_0:
there’s

[00:18:22.22] spk_1:
there’s some banging going on. By the way, you might hear our radio to my my contractor likes, uh, music of the sixties and seventies.

[00:18:32.57] spk_0:
So outside my office to say,

[00:18:33.76] spk_1:
Okay, you got recycling. All right, well, you might hear some credence. Clearwater Revival. Um, hey, if you can hear his music, that’s the There you go here that there you go, pulling that, pulling those deck boards off. All right. So mentoring the details of mentoring. What? How does it work? Let’s talk about the nuts and bolts of a strong mentoring relationship, like in your own. In your own example,

[00:18:59.84] spk_0:
I It’s an excellent question, I think. A couple of things here. Thanks. You certainly can. And as an individual, be seeking a mentor. So try to identify someone maybe in your and your neighborhood, maybe in your organization, maybe in your church.

[00:19:17.84] spk_1:
All right.

Nonprofit Radio for August 7, 2020: Donor Surveys & People-Powered Movements

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My Guests:

Crystal Mahon & Christian Robillard: Donor Surveys

Make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying. Crystal Mahon and Christian Robillard talk principles, best practices and goal setting. Crystal is with STARS Air Ambulance and Christian is at Beyond The Bake Sale. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)

 

 

 

 

Celina Stewart & Gloria Pan: People-Powered Movements

This 20NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Celina Stewart from League of Women Voters U.S. and Gloria Pan with MomsRising.

 

 

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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View Full Transcript
Transcript for 501_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20200807.mp3

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[00:02:40.44] spk_1:
on welcome tony-martignetti profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Welcome to our first podcast only show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of in Texas itis if you inflamed me with the idea that you missed today’s show Donor surveys. You’ll make the most of the donors you have by discovering their potential through surveying Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard talk principles. Best practices and goal setting Crystal is with stars, Air ambulance and Christian. Is that beyond the bake sale? This is part of our 20 and TC coverage and people powered movements. This 20 NTC panel helps you build more effective and more inclusive movements by encouraging you to think about communications, power and privilege. They’re Selena Stewart from League of Women Voters. US and Gloria Pan with mom’s rising on tony steak, too. Planned giving accelerator were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is donor surveys. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference and 10 made the excruciating decision to cancel the non profit technology conference. But we are continuing virtually. You’ll get just as much value. We don’t have to all be close to pick the brains of the expert speakers from From N 10. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Go to tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Crystal is manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance and Christian is founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the Bake Sale. Crystal Christian. Welcome. Welcome to non profit radio,

[00:02:44.19] spk_2:
tony.

[00:02:45.00] spk_0:
Thanks, tony. Great to be here.

[00:02:46.42] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure to have both of you. You are both in ah, in Canada. Crystal. You are in Alberta and Christian. Remind me where you are.

[00:02:55.54] spk_0:
I’m in Ah, beautiful, Sunny Ottawa, Ontario.

[00:03:00.02] spk_1:
Ottawa. No other capital? Yes, in

[00:03:01.23] spk_0:
your nation’s capital. Not be not be disputed with Toronto. Who likes to think that the capital

[00:03:29.66] spk_1:
I know well and many Americans think it’s either Montreal with Toronto? Yes, but, uh, Ottawa Capital. All right. I’m glad to know that you’re both well and safe. Um, and glad to have you both with us. Thanks. Um, we’re talking about donor surveys. Your your NTC topic is ah, Dorner surveys your untapped data goldmine Crystal. Why are surveys a data goldmine?

[00:03:45.11] spk_2:
Well, we have the fortunate launching a survey. We’ve never done one prior to 2016. And when we did it, we were amazed at what we found. So we learned a lot about our donors. Education preferences. We made money, like, usually made that on that. And I’ll talk about. We actually ended up learning a lot about I’m getting prospects. And turns out that there were a lot of donors that we had no idea name Justin there will ever interested in the will. So there was a lot of revenue like hidden revenue that we were finally getting access to you. So that’s are where that line is moving your wits, but it’s preparing to you.

[00:04:23.61] spk_1:
Interesting. I’m looking forward to drilling into that more because I didn’t plan to giving fundraising as a consultant on sometimes asked by clients about doing surveys. So I’m interested in what you’re doing as well. Um, and and you’re getting gifts. You said you’ve made money back from them. So people do send you gifts of cash along with their surveys.

[00:04:53.69] spk_2:
Yes. Like this year we get. Because last year, 2019 are stars. Allies there, maybe $300,000 And that all the you people have been found for giving what? We’re looking at dollars. So it’s you cannot do a survey to seem like you. Point?

[00:04:54.30] spk_1:
Yeah. Did you say billions? With a B?

[00:04:57.21] spk_2:
No millions and

[00:05:08.78] spk_1:
millions. Okay, the audio is not perfect, so it almost sounded billions. So I want to be sure, because I’m listeners have the same question. Okay, Millions, millions is still very, very good. Um, Christian? Anything you want to head to about Why these air Ah, such a gold mine for non profits.

[00:05:14.81] spk_0:
I mean, besides the fact that you’re using data, obviously, to reinforce certain decisions and Teoh highlight certain wealth elements, I would say in terms of your sponsorship potential, I know a lot of organizations are looking more so into the corporate sponsorship corporate engagement side of things. And I think with your donor surveys, you could really reveal a lot around where people are working there levels in terms of positions within a certain company or organization. And that can lead you down some interesting pass from a corporate sponsorship perspective.

[00:06:05.94] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, your, um your description of the workshop said that make the most of the donors you already have. And it sounds like you both obviously are going there. Is there anything you want to add about sussing out the value that’s in your that you don’t know? You have among your current donors?

[00:06:31.20] spk_2:
Well, from our perspective, like it’s given us an opportunity to get to know our donors better in terms of what? What are they actually interested in learning about the organization or why are they choosing given that allows us to tailor messages, just be a lot more personal with them and act like we really know that was supposed to them just being a number. This is an opportunity to really cultivate that relationship and just continue bring them on war.

[00:06:41.08] spk_1:
Okay, um, is most of your content in the workshop around as practices for surveys? Is that what we’re gonna be exploring? Mostly

[00:07:05.94] spk_2:
Christian feel free to jump in and say that we were looking a lot of fast. Her best practice, then also, case studies. People would have some tangible examples how to actually launch one with consider. And what would actually need to do once they got

[00:07:24.46] spk_1:
OK? All right, well, let’s, um let’s start with, Like, where? Where do you get started? Who, Who who were the best people to send surveys to our What types of information are are you finding our most responded to or what types of questions are most responded to? How can you help us sort of frame? Ah ah, an outline of what we were to get started.

[00:07:55.62] spk_2:
Well, Christian and I talked a lot about building the proper spoke of your surveys of figuring out. Why exactly are you? What do you try to find out? And once, you kind of I guess you were down exactly what you’re trying to learn, what you’re trying to cheat, That sort of helping bigger. You need to actually reach up to what? The audience. You need to know that before.

[00:08:06.93] spk_1:
Okay, So, starting with your goals, what was the purpose of the darn thing? Yes. Okay. Okay. Um Christian. You want to jump in around, you know it’s starting to get this process started.

[00:08:15.29] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as crystal, I were kind of building this piece at whether you’re talking about more of a philanthropic, focus for your surveying or whether you’re talking about more of a corporate sponsorship focus of it. You only want to ask yourself, I never different questions before you even get going things around. What do you ultimately want to know about your donor base? Or about this particular audience population that you’re ultimately looking for? More information on? Why are you doing this in the first place? Is, Is this more responsive? Isn’t it more of a proactive type surveyed that explore new avenues? Would you ultimately need to know? I think that’s an important element to focus on Is not asking everything but asking the right things? Who do you need to ask? So who is the actual population that you’re targeting at the end of the day? What would you do with the information? So don’t just collect information for information, say not that that’s not important. But what’s the actual actionable pieces for that? And how are you gonna protect that information? I think with today’s sensitivities around around data privacy, it’s really important for charities and nonprofits to Stuart that data as they would any type of gift that they ultimately get.

[00:09:27.71] spk_1:
Yeah, in terms of the data stewardship that that may constrain what you asked as well, because now you have, ah, conceivably a higher level of security that you need to maintain

[00:09:32.60] spk_0:
absolutely tony and even just in terms of sensitivities, of phrasing, certain questions, and that it’s important for you to think about how you phrase certain things and how intimate your ultimately getting. And if you do get that intimate, like you said, how do you protect that data? But also, what’s the purpose for collecting that particular piece of data side from? Well, it might be a nice toe have someday, instead of this actually contributes towards our bottom line.

[00:10:00.13] spk_1:
You’re doing surveys around corporate sponsorship, right? That’s the example you mentioned. So you’re getting to know where people work so that you might use that information for potential sponsorships.

[00:11:02.31] spk_0:
Yeah, I mean, when you look at sponsorship, ultimately it it’s very much a business transaction. If you look at how Forbes just define sponsorship. It’s very much the cash and in kind fee paid to a property, a property being whether it’s ah terrible run or some type of adventure conference in this case, um, in return for access to the exploitable commercial potential associate without property. So anything of any other type of exploitable commercial potential, which is the most buzzer and definition you possibly could. If you think of any type of advertising medium, whether it’s TV, radio print, you want to know ultimately cruising your audience. And one of the best and most effective ways to do that is to conduct some type of survey to really tease out who are some of your very specific or niche audiences. Cannabis a niche. So it’s a bit of a cringe for for us up here in the North. But, uh, having a survey to really tease out who are who’s in your audience. And some of the more behavioral psychographic demographic features of that audience are particularly important, toe have to really make a compelling case toe corporations looking to use sponsorship with your organization,

[00:11:20.18] spk_1:
the, um what four matter using Christian crystal, I’m gonna ask you the same thing shortly. What? How are these offered to people?

[00:11:28.33] spk_0:
Yeah, so we so in the experience of I’ve high, we usually use ah surveymonkey survey of some kind that allows for a lot of cross top analysis to be able to say that people who are in between the ages of 18 and 29 this particular set of income, they have these particular purchase patterns. They care about your cause, toe ends degree. They, um, are engaged with your cause or with your property and whether it’s through social media or through certain print advertisements or whatever that might be. And we usually collect around 30 plus data points on all of those on all those elements, ranging from again behavioral to the demographic to psychographic Teoh. Some very pointed, specific questions around the relationship between your cause and the affinity for a certain corporation based on that based on not caring for that cause.

[00:12:39.89] spk_1:
Yeah. So you said collecting around 30 data points, does that? Does that mean a survey would have that many questions? Absolutely. Okay, now I’ve heard from guests in the past. May have even been ntc guests. Not this year, but, you know, the optimal number of questions for surveys like five or six or so and people bailout beyond that point.

[00:13:58.37] spk_0:
Yeah, and and usually before I had actually sent out a survey of that magnitude, I would agree with you. Tony and I agree with most. I think that the important differentiators one is that you frame it as it’s very much for improving the relationships and the ability for the cause properties, whether that’s your run, your gala, whatever that might be to raise money and usually the audience that you’re setting. That, too, is very receptive to that. I think you want to frame it also as your only collecting the most important of information. And you’re also looking at ah again like you’re incentivizing in some way, shape or form. So usually when you tailor it with some type of incentive Buta $50 gift card opportunity Teoh win something like that. Usually people a lot more or a lot more receptive. And in the time that we’ve done surveys, whether it’s in my my past days, consulting in the space or now doing a lot of work with charities nonprofits, we sent it to tens of thousands of respondents and get a pretty a pretty strong response rate and a really nominal, if negligible, amount of an unsubscribe rates. So people are not un subscribing from getting those questions, and in fact, they’re answering a lot of them and an important element, as well as making them optional. So not forcing people to house to fill out certain pieces but giving them the freedom to answer whatever questions they feel compelled to. But when you’re doing it for the cause, people are pretty are pretty compelled to respond to those states of questions.

[00:14:01.77] spk_1:
Okay, Crystal, how about you? What? What format are your service offered in?

[00:14:31.04] spk_2:
Did you both offline and online? So our donor base tends to skew a little bit older, though for us, a physical mailing is absolutely I’m only deals online, burgeon for, I guess, other parts of our donor base that are different. The graphical, just based on that person’s preference, is giving them that opportunity. But what we did find is that in terms of our offline responses, we had a lower was off rate of responses to the survey, but exponentially more donations coming through offline as online and then for online responses of the online certainly had a lot more responses to be online. Survey. There are fewer donations, so I found that there was an inverse relationship there about that very thing.

[00:15:41.08] spk_1:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness This is still a front burner issue. You have got to get your loan forgiveness application in. Wegner has the info you need. Their latest free wagon are explains the state of P P P Loan forgiveness. What is forgivable? What documentation do you need? How to work with your lender? Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource Is and recorded events. Now back to donor surveys with Crystal Mahan and Christian Robot Yard. Do you, ah, subscribe to the same opinion about the length that that could be up to 30 questions? In a survey, a ZX Christian was saying,

[00:16:17.66] spk_2:
We personally have a practice of you tiki bars between five and 10 questions. And sometimes we even Taylor that we know that some of these interested in particular programs we might take out a certain question. But in something else related specifically to them, for their isn’t variability in the surveys, but generally quite short, but I do agree with Christian for sure in terms of really framing the purpose of the survey and you to the questions around this is the whole purpose of this is to build a relationship with them and better serve them and get to know them better. And I think that really prince, And then you also

[00:16:23.41] spk_1:
just gonna ask about incentivizing, Okay? Something similar, Like drawing for a gift card. Something like that.

[00:16:33.91] spk_2:
Yeah. We get a star’s prize package. We wanted to do something about these decisions. You couldn’t get something but elsewhere. So yeah, way start for merchandise. So that’s

[00:17:18.04] spk_1:
okay. I’m gonna thank Christian for not having a good, uh, good video appearance because, you know, I’ve done 10 of these today, and they’re all gonna be all the video’s gonna be preserved. Except this one. Because Christian, um, as a very extreme background is really just a silhouette ahead with headphones. Really? Little I can see. But I’m grateful because my background just fell. I have a little tony, I have a tony-martignetti. You watched other of these videos which you’re gonna be available. This tony-martignetti non profit radio. So the easel you know, what’s that for? A form core, you know, sign. And it was behind me. It was, and it just fell while Crystal was talking. So thank you, Christian.

[00:17:29.66] spk_0:
It was just so surprised that you could ask 30 questions on a survey and get some type of degree of response.

[00:17:38.43] spk_1:
Only it shook my house that I’m

[00:17:40.42] spk_0:
30 data points. What madness is this? I’m

[00:17:58.70] spk_1:
so a gas man. Yes. And then also the fact that you the two of you disagree. Um, all right, so but I’m shouting myself, calling myself out as having a flimsy background lasted through. And that’s through, like, seven hours of this. I

[00:17:58.85] spk_0:
love it. Also, we don’t necessarily disagree, but I think different surveys serve their different purposes. So I agree with Crystal that in that particular case, you only need descends. One that has 5 to 10 questions rise in this case, your public sending it to in a slot strip case, you’re probably sending it to a larger population of people. And you only need a certain amount of people to fill it out.

[00:18:18.73] spk_1:
Crystal, I had asked you, and you probably answered, but I got distracted by my collapsing background. What? What kinds of incentives do you offer?

[00:18:40.21] spk_2:
We offer stars prize pack. So it’s stars over two nights that we want to talk or something a little bit different other than my gift card that they could get through any other. Yeah, it’s so different Angle

[00:19:00.18] spk_1:
personalized two stars. Okay, Okay, Um, now, was yours specifically Ah, planned giving survey, or did you just have a couple of planned giving questions? And that’s where you discovered this data goldmine of future gift. And all the wheels that you found out that you’re in was

[00:19:27.84] spk_2:
it was it was not specific to plan giving, so it was more just a general survey. And then we did have a question about plan giving and that we were stunned. But subsequent years we kept asking mad, and right now we’re sort of in the middle of doing that whole. I’m giving strategy and trying to really build that out. Now that we know that there is this whole core people that are interested in this. So it’s really opened up the water opportunities President organization after all.

[00:19:43.23] spk_1:
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. All right. So you learned from the first time this is you’re in a lot more estates than you had. Any idea? Um, let’s let’s talk about some more good practices for surveys. Crystal, is there something you can one of two things you want to recommend and then we’ll come toe go back to Christian.

[00:19:53.81] spk_2:
Yeah, One of my major things is that if you’ve been asked a question, you have to know where you’re going to do with that data after the fact that you were people just ask the question to ask a question for whatever reason. But then they don’t action. Anything out of it to me is very important that if our donors are gonna spend the time actually breathe through your survey, respond, mail it in or submitted online, that we actually do something that that information is the weather bats killer. It’s a messaging or changing communication preferences or whatever it is you’re asking us to do, you were tell has I think that’s so important that you have to have all a plan once these losses come back. And what are we gonna do with them? Who was going to take action? How are we gonna reason with this? How are we going to use information.

[00:21:15.77] spk_1:
I think of date of birth is as a good example of that. If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna develop a plan to congratulate someone for their birth on their birthday each year, then that could be a valuable data point. Um, but if you just, you know, if you’re just asking because you you don’t have a purpose, you just interested in what their ages? For some vague reason, then there’s no there’s no value in asking. And if it is just to follow up, if it’s just to know their you know when you want to send a card, maybe you don’t need the year. Maybe just need the day in the month. But if there’s value to your database for knowing their age and you would ask for a year

[00:21:23.72] spk_2:
exactly how he felt down, what do we need to know? I really asking

[00:21:30.90] spk_1:
why, Kristen, you have a best practice you want to share.

[00:21:33.84] spk_0:
Yeah, I would say Consider the not just the population size that you’re not just the population that you’re serving, but also the representative makeup. So if you know that your database is predominantly on more, the senior side of things, but you’re getting a disproportion amount of more individuals who are on the younger side of things. In terms of respondents, that’s something important that you have to take into account. So the makeup of the actual population is is more important. I would argue that the amount of responses you could get a crazy amount of responses. But if it doesn’t represent the population that you’re serving and that who make up your donors, it’s it’s not gonna be valuable dated to you. I remember one time we had a ZX instance for an organization wanted Teoh do a survey for sponsor purposes, and in other cases, it’s been from or donor specific, like, I will just put it on on Facebook or Twitter or something like that. It’s not necessarily your population is not necessarily the group that you’re looking that you’re actively engaged with a fundraising perspective. You get information to the otherwise and then obviously reflect on that and use that. But be really clear about the breakdown that you need to have in order to make the information, actually, representative of the rest of your database,

[00:22:47.24] spk_1:
Um, what kind of response rates what’s what’s a decent response rate to, ah to a survey?

[00:23:06.51] spk_0:
I think it depends what type of server you’re sending. I will let Crystal speak to this more, but I’d say if it’s philanthropic. Eikenberry on the sponsorship side of things you’re looking for a response rate that coincides with the 95% confidence interval with a 5% margin of error. Let’s get market data to calculate that there’s a bunch of big captain complicated formulas that we probably have all repressed from our time in. In statistics Citizen that in university there’s ah company called Surveymonkey that actually has a calculator for its. If you go to the Surveymonkey website, you can actually just plug in a what the sample side of what the actual size of the database you’re sending into. And you can plug in what confidence interval that you want. And then what margin of error that you’d like, and it will pump out a number of a minimum that you need to have. I would say that’s a good starting point. But again, as I talked about before, make sure you have the representative break up breakdown of, ah, who’s actually within your audience reflected in the survey results and don’t have it disproportionately skewed towards a particular demographic that might be just more inclined. Teoh, respond to surveys.

[00:24:25.04] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, um, Crystal, Anything you want to add about the confidence, it’s different, but yeah, I withdraw that. That doesn’t make sense for you because you’re doing individual philanthropic surveys. So each response you get is valuable. You find out that someone is interested in planned giving already, has you in their will. That one response has has great value. Yes. Okay.

[00:24:39.74] spk_2:
Our purpose of our surveys a little bit different. We don’t worry so much about that, but I actually meeting how like that in your mind. Reaching out to you?

[00:24:44.24] spk_1:
What? What kind of response rate to use for the crystal is still you know, these things? Things take time and you’re doing Some of them are offline. So there’s postage and printing, et cetera. What kind of response rate do you consider good for? For a NH effort like that

[00:25:40.43] spk_2:
in terms of financial reform? Three. So don’t verify that for us, a response to the survey doesn’t necessarily mean a gift, and it gets to the survey, doesn’t necessarily mean that they responded to a number. Yes, we usually eight or 86%. But in terms of actual response to the survey, we’ve seen his lower 2% for the highest 7% a year of channel. So either way, like we have, quite like we have quite a large database. So any of you to be So get this information, your father.

[00:25:42.89] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, for your online surveys. Crystal, are you using surveymonkey? Also, did you say

[00:25:48.80] spk_2:
use a couple leased surveymonkey last year? It is very user friendly. What? I would caution people are always print about whatever price package designed for because, like you discussed for our surveys a big focuses financial tournament. So we needed to price plan that involved being able to redirect right from surveymonkey page to our donation form. So you had to be really mindful things like that. So in some of the basic packages, they don’t write redirect donation form in that you can’t Do you have a really negatively impact your

[00:26:27.94] spk_1:
Is there another online tool that you like? Also you?

[00:26:52.64] spk_2:
I used Teoh from cold response. Ter. We’ve there be start a sweetener somewhere in Europe, and they were very good, though there are some limitations is well with them in terms of what the packages offer. But bring out we’re using serving Look, you know what was sending out like, for example, looking at surveys. This any surveymonkey already of our to be rich 8th 1 So that’s what we’re using.

[00:26:56.04] spk_1:
Okay, how about you, Christian? Is there another one besides Surveymonkey that you could recommend?

[00:27:22.01] spk_0:
I I think it just depends on what you’re looking for. A tony. So if you’re looking for a lot of, let’s say, more qualitative answers, I’d say even a Google form would would be more than would be more than acceptable. It really just depends on what functionality want to get out of. I used every monkey pretty religiously, just cause it’s like Crystal said. It’s very user friendly. It has the functionality that I need, and it’s and it’s relatively reasonable in terms of in terms of price point for what you get. It’s also gonna depend, and it’s up to you to do due diligence on what types of functionality you need. You need to integrate with your database for other software. Do you need certain functionality. Do you actually know how to use a lot of those things? Is there gonna be support and again, like what? What are they going to do with your data? Like, do they have access to your data? Whether it’s metadata or otherwise, Are there other rules of jurisdictions you have to consider with that data privacy? So I use every monkey by lots of considerations to make.

[00:28:04.85] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. Thank you. And Kristen wanted to, uh why don’t you lead us out with some Take us out with some, I guess. Motivation. Closing thoughts like to end with?

[00:28:05.97] spk_0:
Absolutely, I would say from a sponsor perspective, whether you’re a large organization or small organization, the riches during the niches. So to do good sponsorship, it requires good data, and it requires those 30 plus data points. But whether you’re a big group or a small group, you can compete at the same scale, especially with the amount of money that’s being spent on cost sponsorship over $2 million a worldwide, which is no small amount of money. That’s that you can get access you whether you’re $100,000 a year, order a $1,000,000 plus requires good data. So make sure you’re collecting good data. Make sure you’re clear on what do you want to use your information for? And, uh, not just the diligent in ah, making training step, but the data is actually protected.

[00:28:50.64] spk_1:
Okay, um, I was I was I was gonna let Christian end, But since the two of you have such divergent purposes, which is fabulous for it’s great for a discussion Divergent purposes around your surveys. Crystal, why don’t you take us out on the on the filling topic? The individual donor side?

[00:29:51.64] spk_2:
Yes. So play for discussing. Don’t be afraid to fundraise just because survey doesn’t mean that you can’t make money off of it. People are supporting you enough that they’re willing to fill out the remainder onto you. They may be going to donators alone, and then I’ll help without it said you have to know why you do what you do with that information. It’s really important in terms of respecting your door time and back. That there giving you this information, you need to be able to use it and sort properly and safely. And then last may I just say please, please please test your survey before you actually sending out Senator One other part fans are other people that are not in the midst of building the surveys that you can find out. You phrase things appropriately. You’re actually wanting what you want to functionality is appropriate. I think that’s just so we don’t have one chance of finding out. So just make sure that

[00:30:01.59] spk_1:
okay, thank you very much. That’s Crystal Mahan, manager of annual giving at stars Air Ambulance. And with her is Christian Rubber Yard founder and chief podcaster at Beyond the bake sale crystals in Alberta. And ah, I’m sorry, Crystal. Did I just say Crystal? Yeah.

[00:30:21.02] spk_2:
You know, yesterday

[00:30:23.48] spk_1:
I say, Chris Christie, Mr Just all I know is in Alberta,

[00:30:25.30] spk_0:
you know, we don’t make it easy on your tony

[00:30:36.35] spk_1:
on, and I got through 25 minutes. So well, and I know it’s a lackluster host. I’m sorry. This is stuck with in the Christians in the capital city of Ottawa. Thank you so much, Christian Crystal. Thank you very

[00:30:40.72] spk_0:
much. Thanks, tony.

[00:33:31.93] spk_1:
Thanks to you for being with joining martignetti non profit radio coverage off 20 NTC, the non profit technology conference Responsive at the conference by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain will get you a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us now. Time for Tony’s Take two. I am still very proud to announce the launch of planned giving accelerator. This is a yearlong membership community that is going to get your planned giving program started. I’m going to give you exclusive webinars Exclusive podcasts. Yes, beyond tony-martignetti non profit radio, there’s gonna be the exclusive podcast for accelerator members. Small group asked me anything. Sessions over Zoom I’ll have Resource is like templates and checklists. All of this is to get your planned giving program started. You’ll join for a year. I will keep you filled with exclusive content, and you will get your program started. I promise I will make planned giving easy, accessible and affordable. You can check out all the information at planned giving accelerator dot com. If you may not be quite ready for membership, you don’t want to look at that quite yet. You just want to dip your toes in the water. I have a free how to guide about getting your planned giving program started to see a theme. Here, you see, you see the consistency running through here. This is not This is not accidental. Please, please the free how to guide you Download that also at planned giving accelerator dot com, that is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for people powered movements. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference. Of course, the conference was canceled, but we are persevering. Virtually sponsored. A 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guests now are Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. Selena is senior director of advocacy and litigation at League of Women Voters. US. And Gloria is vice president for member engagement at Mom’s Rising Celina. Gloria. Welcome. Hello. I’m glad we were able to put this virtually. It’s good to see both of you. Um and I’m glad to know that you each well and safe and in either D. C or just outside D. C. Selena, you’re in d. C and Gloria. Where you outside Washington Gloria

[00:33:46.60] spk_4:
I am actually near Dulles Airport. So, you know, some people commute from here, but because Mom’s rising is a virtual organization, I don’t. And so when people ask me for lunch, I’m always like, Okay, it takes a little bit more planning. I have to bend. I have to get my body injustices.

[00:34:18.24] spk_1:
Okay, Um, you’re NTC Topic is a revolution is coming. Top tactics, build people powered movements. Um, Selena, would you get us started with this? What? What was the need for the session?

[00:35:27.88] spk_3:
Well, I think, um, I think one of the things is right now it’s all about people power. You know, there’s everything is so politicized right now, and I think that there is often a conversation about how people are involved with what government actually represents or what the government is representing. So I think that that’s really, really important. Um, we also saw, like, a 2018 mawr voter turnout, more voters turning out to vote and things like that. So I think that that also is a part of us people conversation like what is compelling people to participate, even mawr, or at a greater extent in their democracy. But all of these things kind of work together to figure out. Not only do we have people engaged now, but what is important. What just community is more people become engaged. How does how does our definition of our community and communities in general changes? More people are included and participating all of those things. So I think that we’re at a very interesting and crucial moment in time. And so people powered and people involved movement. It’s it’s, I think it’s always happen. But it’s just a coin phrase. I think that’s especially prevalent right now.

[00:35:56.69] spk_1:
Good, Gloria, even though participation is is very high, were also largely polarized. So how do we overcome the opposite ends of the spectrum to tryto bring people together and and organize?

[00:36:01.33] spk_4:
Are you talking about everyone or are you talking about voters?

[00:36:17.39] spk_1:
Uh, well, I’m talking about the country. I don’t know. I don’t know whether I don’t know where the people are voting, but I’m talking about our political polarization. I don’t know if they’re necessarily voting. I

[00:36:20.97] spk_3:
I talked about voting, so I probably threw it off a little bit. Glory. They act like I’m asking for

[00:37:19.89] spk_4:
complication only because, like some of the most talented and I think unifying on politicians in recent memory. For example, Barack Obama did not succeed in unifying all of us, right? So there are some segments of our citizenry that will just not do it. We will not be able to come together with them. But I think that for, um, people who really do want the best for our country and who are open minded enough, Teoh want to hear from other people who have different, you know, slightly different ways of looking at the world. It is possible to do it, and that goes back to what Selena was saying about people powered movements. I think that one of the reasons why that’s become more more of a catchphrase is that you know, we are in an era of information overload. We are in an era of polarization and not believing everything that we’re seeing on the Internet and in the news. And so being able to actually really connect with people on the ground, in person, over the phone, but directly and not going through the filter of social media or news movements is it’s increasingly important, and that will be one of the main channels for us to unify as many people as possible.

[00:38:16.42] spk_1:
So we’re talking about creating these both online and offline, right? Um, people powered people, centred movements. Um, how, Gloria, how do we want nonprofits to think about or what we need to think about in terms of doing this, organizing, creating these these movements,

[00:39:11.07] spk_4:
I’m First of all, it’s about inclusivity. Okay, So, um, at least from where we set Mom’s rising and me speaking on behalf of Monster Rising right now, we want to make sure that whatever we do and if it’s the most people and harms no one at all, if possible. So that’s one part of it. How we speak, how we communicate to make sure that what we’re speaking and how we communicate does not reinforce add stereotypes that creates divisions. Okay, that’s one way, another way, not way. But another thing to consider are also the tools that we’re using. Are we using your people are on different kinds of communication tools. Some people only do Facebook. Other people only do on email on dhe. There also is like text messaging there. All of these new community communications goes towards coming on and being on top of the different tools. Superb, warden, Because we need to meet people where they are. Um, because you’re just a couple of thoughts.

[00:39:36.49] spk_1:
Okay. Um so sorry, Selina. So we’re talking about diversity equity inclusion. Let’s drill down into a little bit of, like, what do we What do we need to do around our communications that is more equitable and non harming?

[00:39:57.72] spk_3:
So I think that’s an important question of us. Definitely something that has been injured in the leaks work over the last, I would say five years, but more intentionally over the last two. I’m sorry. I

[00:40:01.52] spk_1:
mean, he’s sorry. Whose work?

[00:42:09.00] spk_3:
The league. I’m sorry. I always refer to the League of Women Voters with us. Okay. Colleagues were led. Sorry. Boats that are full title is just too long for me to keep saying so. I just prefer to see Oh, I got you know, d I is very, very important for us. You know, our organization has historically been older white women. We’ve also always had members of color. But I don’t know that they were always at the forefront. So for us, our work is really centered in two questions and everything that we’re doing, who’s at the table and who should be at the table who’s missing. So I think starting all of our conversation in the efforts that we’re doing with those two questions allows us to center on our work in diversity, equity inclusion and also use our power as, um, people who have had access to legislator stakeholders, et cetera. How did we use our power and in a way that allows access of inclusivity for more people. So I think that that is really important and something that DEA diversity and inclusion work. It’s hard just versus It’s not easy, you know it. It gets very uncomfortable a lot of times when you’re talking about privilege, patriarchy and all of the talk about as it relates to d I. But it’s so important to get comfortable being uncomfortable and having these conversations that the only way I think that we can start to build a bridge towards unifying Um, CA music is at the end of the day, we may be politically, but at the end of the day, we all share many of the very same values which is historically united this country. Like right now we’re in the midst of the Corona virus. The Corona virus doesn’t care where the Republican Democrat black, white, female male does. It doesn’t matter. I’m at the end of the day, we all have to make sure that we’re doing what we can to be safe as individuals. But also our actions greatly impact the people around us. So it’s more of a It’s more of a community mindset that’s required or to tap this down. So I know that that’s like a little offset. All shoot from what we’re talking about. But I think it all placed together in some way, shape or form.

[00:42:30.65] spk_1:
Okay, um, Gloria about for moms rising. And how do you ensure that your communications are equitable on dhe? Non harmful?

[00:43:35.32] spk_4:
Well, Mom’s Rising has very intentionally built an organization that tries to bring different voices to the table. We are intersectional and we are multi issue, and so from our staff were very bad person, many, many different ways, and from the way that we choose which issues to work on, we also take into consideration which these are being impacted and how we communicate about those and then the way that we campaign is that our campaigns are always overlap. And so there is different people within the organization as well as a partner policy partners from different issue areas. They help us that our issues and the way that we communicate with them to make sure that you know you are we’re not communicating in a way that that that excludes communities, reinforces bad stereotype pipes and raises red flags, make make, make people feel bad ways that we don’t understand because of where we individuals. Campaigners. No. So everything we do is very thoroughly betters through different filters.

[00:43:48.70] spk_1:
Okay, so you re vetting. Yeah, please. Yeah, so, you know,

[00:44:55.97] spk_3:
I totally agree with what glorious said. I think that’s really important because the league is also multi issue and kind of has that you have to compete when you multiple issues. You sometimes have toe think a little differently about how you present yourself on each issue in orderto not negatively impact the whole set of what you’re trying to accomplish. And so for us and the communication speaks, I’m expressly is thinking about whether it’s appropriate who’s the appropriate messenger when we’re communicating so Is it appropriate for the league to be a leader in this space, or do we need to take a step back and be a supporter? So I think that’s one of the things that’s very important for us. Communication wise is we’re figuring out what is what space are we gonna take up in the communication in space and how we’re gonna communicate this issue and then the other pieces Who’s talking? Who is the person that we’re putting in front actually speak about a particular issue and is, Is that the right person? And are they speaking from the lens that’s most appropriate for that particular issue that’s gonna be impacted most as a result of what you’re saying or doing? So I think that’s very important. With Gloria lifted up

[00:46:14.78] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships, the world runs on them. We know this turn to is led by former journalists, so you’re going to get their help building relationships with journalists. They’ve been there, they know how to do it. They know what the pitfalls are and they know how to do it wrong so they will steer you to the right way to build relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field. They specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got but loads more time for people powered movements with Selena Stewart and Gloria Pan. How do you manage the conflicting issues? If you know, I guess it’s because there are issues where you have a large constituency on one side of one issue. But something else may seem contrary to that to that large constituency. A different issue that you’re taking a stand on Is that Is that my understanding? Right when you say, you know, potential issue conflict?

[00:46:51.33] spk_3:
Well, when you have a 500,000 members and supporters and you’re in every congressional district, everybody can agree on on how to approach an issue. But what grounds? The league is our mission. Our mission is to empower voters and democracy. Power people defend democracy. So I think as long as you stay rooted in what your chin values statement is that you can find some reconciliation across, you know the most seemingly divergent issues Okay,

[00:46:58.68] spk_1:
climate change That I think would probably be a good example. I was just

[00:47:11.43] spk_4:
I was I was gonna add, okay, that just to step back a little bit. The one thing that I am super super proud of, um, is that a toll east for progressives? I think that we’re actually pretty consistent in about our agreement on your shoes. We may have different levels of intensity and what we agree with, but I think they’re very few conflicts. We may not agree on how to get somewhere, but we all agree on where we want to go. Okay, So in that way, I rather feel, at least from Mom’s rising standpoint, we rarely get. I can’t even think of a single instance where we have conflicts because we’re not agreeing with each other or with policy partners on the most important thing where we’re heading.

[00:47:45.75] spk_3:
So I think that’s a difference, because are the league is it’s not left or right leaning were kind of way. We have members who are both conservative and liberal. Yeah, have some of that conflict more in that. But I think you’re absolutely right. Do we all want the same things and a healthier, more vibrant democracy. Absolutely. So you have to find some common ground in that space. But we definitely have members who are who want to handle things. One way, versus the other. We have to find common ground.

[00:49:02.57] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s the challenge. I was trying to get it. Yeah, okay. It helps. At least it helps me to think of an example like climate change. You know, some. There are some people who don’t even believe that it’s it’s human impacted. And there are others who think, where decades behind and in our inaction Teoh Teoh, reverse the effects of human induced climate change. So, um, it’s Ah, that’s that’s quite a challenge. Really. So, um Okay, Well, where else? Well, should we go with these people? Powered movement ideas? You you, you to spend a lot more time studying this. So what else should we be talking about? That we haven’t yet. I

[00:49:02.65] spk_4:
would actually love to hear from Selena how the league is dealing with. I’m doing your work remotely.

[00:49:10.59] spk_3:
You guys are already virtual. This is like, No, no sweat for you guys, right? Well, you know,

[00:49:37.30] spk_4:
I mean, we do have, you know, our plans range from virtually all the way down to the grassroots. Right? And I think especially for organizations like your Selena, we share the, um, the common goal this year of border engagements. I am very sorry I opened the door. Family a letter out. I’m

[00:49:43.14] spk_3:
very sorry. Okay.

[00:49:45.25] spk_1:
All right. So, you know, um, terms of remote working, but yeah, but how it relates to this topic of people power.

[00:50:59.86] spk_3:
Yeah. So I think that’s really, really important. We’re definitely so it is one thing to convert toe er teleworking, right? That’s one thing. But when your work is so much advocacy, um, and especially the leaders on the ground who are doing voter registration, which requires you to be on the ground talking to people, you know, that has shifted our work. So one of the examples that we have because we have our people power fair mass campaign, which is basically trying to get redistricting reform for across the country and a positive waste that we don’t have another situation like we had in North Carolina where you’re from, tell me and also and Maryland subs we wanna we wanna make sure that you know people are represented appropriately, but a lot of the states that were working in they have a signature collection campaigns going on right now. So how do you do signature collection when you can’t actually be within three or six feet of people? So now many of our leaks air converting to digital signatures and going through their legislator to make those adjustments that they can still collect signatures and meet that need, et cetera, Our love. We have a lobby core, which is 21 volunteers that goes to the hill every month. Obviously, with the hill being also teleworking, it created what we thought might be a barrier. But now our lobbies are doing virtual coffee meetings on Zoom just like this and having those conversations with legislators, legislative staff and all of those things. So I think that the Corona virus has forced us to do our work in a different way. But it’s also being great to innovate and be creative and do the work that people love just in a different way. So we it’s not perfect. I don’t even want to make you think that this is perfect because it’s definitely not. But I think that there’s a lot of positive energy about doing our work and finding ways to do our work in different ways.

[00:52:27.38] spk_1:
Which, okay, is thinking creatively. I for our for our listeners. And I don’t want to focus just on Mom’s rising and legal women voters us. I want them to recognize how what we’re talking about can be applied by them, how they they, what they need to go back to their CEOs or whatever vice presidents wegner And what kind of like discussion items they need to be putting forward at the organization is not now thinking about in terms of, you know, again, people power revolution is coming. Yeah, you know how how how can our listeners helped create it?

[00:53:21.55] spk_3:
I think just becoming involved, like when you’re talking about people powered anything, it’s really about base building. And for me, the goals of base base building are always to grow. A base of volunteers who have a shared value of some sort and you’re coming together in orderto makes the progressive movement on that. It’s also about leadership, development, communities and constituency who turn out who are players in this issue or what have you and then putting issues to the forefront. So I think that wherever you is, what do you value? What’s important to you? You could be a simple as Hey, there’s a pothole, my street that has been fixed in the last year. Can we come together as a community and really talk with our local election officials about making sure our streets are in a position that’s not gonna record cars or have someone get endangered in some way? So I think it comes down to, as on an individual level, what is important to you. What do you value and finding and connecting with those people? Also, that you something similar? And what do you want to change? What is it that you’re trying to change or that would make your life better? And who were the people who can support you in getting that done?

[00:53:55.15] spk_1:
That’s consistent with what you said down an organization level to the same. You know what? The core values, that’s what that’s what drives all the work on, brings people together finding that commonality around, whether it’s the pothole in the street and the individual level.

[00:54:01.45] spk_3:
Whoever whatever. Here, whatever.

[00:54:08.59] spk_1:
Jim Yeah, Gloria, What? What’s your advice for how people can contribute to this revolution.

[00:55:16.50] spk_4:
Um, I think that right now we’re all sitting in our homes and we’re rethinking the way that we do our work. And even as individuals, we’re rethinking the way that we are doing our activism. You think that a very important message right now for activists personally and for organizations that organize activists and try to recruit and build the base, is that now is not the time to step away. Now, more important than ever, it is important to stand top of the issues, to sign those petitions, to speak up and to share your stories, because I will give you a very, very specific example. Right now, Congress is negotiating, arguing over all of these different critical needs in the Corona virus relief bills. While Mom’s Rising has been on the forefront of trying to influence those negotiations. And the most powerful weapon we have are your stories, people stories, what’s gonna happen to your child care center that has to close down what’s gonna happen to a domestic workers who suddenly don’t have a paycheck? Um, paid family leave. This is something that a signature mounds rising issue. We’ve been working on luck forever ever since. Our founding is one of our signature issues. But now, because of the stories that we have gathered and we’re hearing from our members about the need for pay leave and the fact that if we had had paid leave all this time that the burden of Corona virus would have been much lighter this is something that we’re powerfully bringing to the negotiating table. And we’re actually seeing We’re going on paid leave. So all organizations and all individuals, whatever issues that you’re working on, do not step away, continue to share your stories because those stories have to be brought to the negotiating table for policy. And that’s the only way we’re gonna get the policy that we need.

[00:57:30.53] spk_1:
Okay, We’re gonna leave it there. That’s Ah, quite inspirational. Thank you. That’s Ah, That’s Gloria Pan, Vice President, member engagement, engagement at Mom’s Rising. And also Selena Stewart, senior director of advocacy and litigation. The League of Women voters. Us though Gloria Selena. Thank you very much. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, Tommy. Pleasure and thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 ntc were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us next week. An archive show. I promise you, I’ll pick a winner If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this music is by Scots Dying with me next week for not profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for July 10, 2020: Digital Accessibility & Inclusive Design

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My Guests:

Laura Patch: Digital Accessibility
How to make your digital products more accessible. Think data visualization, color choices, alternative text, screen readers and more. Laura Patch from Sierra Club reveals the details. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)

 

 

 

 

 

Nic Steenhout: Inclusive Design
Nic Steenhout says forget upgrading for accessibility. Rather, he wants you to design inclusively from the beginning. Whichever path you take, the point is to eliminate barriers to communications. He’s an independent accessibility consultant. (Also part of our 20NTC coverage)

 

 

 

 

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[00:01:55.54] spk_1:
big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with lateral epic condo leitess if you strained our relationship with the idea that you missed today’s show. Digital Accessibility. How do you make your digital products more accessible? Think data visualization, color choices, alternative text screen readers and more. Laura Patch from Sierra Club reveals the details. This is part of our 20 NTC coverage. Also inclusive design. Nick Steen How says Forget about upgrading for accessibility. Rather, he wants you to design inclusively from the beginning. Whichever path you take. The point is to eliminate barriers to communications. He’s an independent accessibility consultant. This is also part of our 20 NTC coverage on Tony’s Take two Dismantling racism were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As, guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications, PR and content for non profits? Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is digital accessibility. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference. We were supposed to be in Baltimore. The conference was canceled, but we are persevering, virtually irrespective. Our coverage of 20 NTC is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund.

[00:02:20.44] spk_0:
Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? You can go to tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial.

[00:02:32.04] spk_1:
My guess now is Laura Patch. She is digital project manager for the Sierra Club. Ah, Laura. Welcome.

[00:02:33.74] spk_2:
Hi. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:35.39] spk_0:
Uh, pleasure. I’m glad this worked out. And, uh, I know you’re well and safe and glad. Glad to hear that.

[00:02:41.64] spk_2:
Yeah.

[00:02:54.94] spk_1:
Your ah topic is everyday accessibility. How everyone can make digital products more accessible? Why is this important for all for all

[00:02:55.93] spk_0:
nonprofits, irrespective of what proportion you think your users are. Your visitors are that with with disabilities.

[00:04:03.24] spk_2:
Um, So there is definitely a portion of the population that has permanent disabilities that we should be concerned with. They have high buying power. Um, disposable income that will on make them want to donate to your lovely non profit. And by having accessible, uh, digital products, you make sure that they can participate in your mission, but awesome. Their situational disabilities. If you think about the last time you took your cell phone out and it was great and funny and you couldn’t see your screen back, actually an acceptability issue. And if you focus on creating high contrast images like you would for somebody who has color vision problems, then you’re benefiting all the people using your website on their phone in break fun. So thinking about this situation, all ones will help your organization as well.

[00:04:04.64] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Thank you. I want people to understand that I’ve had NTC guests say that. I don’t know. It was a couple of years ago, since since we’ve covered accessibility, but yeah. Thank you. Um,

[00:04:30.74] spk_1:
there’s a little pause in the video. Um, So what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna pause the recording. I’m gonna ask you to leave the meeting and come back in. Okay? I’m gonna pause now. All right, let’s see if

[00:04:31.92] spk_0:
this works a little better. Maybe not so much video hesitation. Um, so this is, uh you’re covering every digital product you say. Not just This is not just for websites.

[00:04:45.04] spk_2:
Correct? In my presentation, I talk about how to make your documents, your slides and a data visualisation more accessible.

[00:04:54.84] spk_0:
Okay, um, should we, uh, should we start with documents that Okay,

[00:05:23.84] spk_2:
Yeah, but, um, So one of the things that I suggest is to make sure that you use the actual heading setting whether you’re using Microsoft Word Google docks, whatever your platform is, um, this is important, because if you take text and inject, change the format of it, then screen readers can’t tell somebody that right? Whereas if you use heading one heading two heading three, a screenwriter will include that and what it reads to the person so it helps them navigate through your content.

[00:05:39.50] spk_0:
Uh, okay. I don’t think many people are doing that. I think most people just radio heading and then boldface it.

[00:05:49.94] spk_2:
Exactly. Yeah. You really want to take the time, Teoh Change it so it’s heading, and you can actually adapt style so that once you apply heading one, all of your heading ones have that style. It’s really actually easier work.

[00:06:01.74] spk_0:
Yeah, Okay. Right. Then you rather than you have to do it manually. Ok? Um okay. What else? What else? For documents.

[00:06:17.54] spk_2:
Um, this is one that people also frequently forget. We’re doing a better job on websites, but all images should have alternative text. Uh, that should be a no longer than two seconds is preferably even shorter than two sentences. It should describe what’s happening in the image without using words like image of photo of, um, and this again also helps with screen readers. It helps if the images loading slowly as well. So if you have poor Internet connection, you’re again on your cell phone. With no cell service, you can still tell what is conveyed in a image by the alternative text. Okay,

[00:06:49.11] spk_0:
why do you say, why do you not use the language photo of our image over something like that?

[00:06:55.94] spk_2:
Because the screen reader will tell people that it will say image, and then it’ll tell your alternative text so it’s repetitive to keep saying it. Describe what people might feed.

[00:07:10.17] spk_1:
Okay, Okay, Anything else with with images?

[00:07:12.54] spk_2:
No, not.

[00:07:14.04] spk_1:
Do you have to be concerned about color, color of our images or anything like that?

[00:07:30.34] spk_2:
If you’re gonna put text over the image than yes, you want to make sure that your image background in that text have Ah, High column, cross radio. There’s some places on the Internet You can check to make sure that that’s working well, but basically you want toe have either a light background with dark text or vice versa on. And if you can’t achieve that because a lot of things were happening in the image than doing some sort of floating background behind your text with playing around with capacity. I’m concerns that will work while too.

[00:08:05.43] spk_0:
OK, I’m sorry. What do you mean, capacity was the opacity. Opacity? Yes. Okay, I’ve seen that. All right, Opacity, SS. I’m trainable. Alright? Opacity, Of course. All right. Um, yeah. More documents, Sure. Sure.

[00:08:10.31] spk_2:
Yeah. So those are some good tips for documents? Um,

[00:08:14.85] spk_0:
was that it? Is that it for documents? Okay. Okay. Um, where should we go? Uh, uh, data visualization, right?

[00:08:24.14] spk_2:
Yeah. Expands more on that color stuff that we were just talking about. Where you go, you have high contrast colors. Um, you do have colors, like, Say, you have a graph that has five color. So it becomes really difficult to make sure that every single one of those colors have five contrasts. You want to add pattern.

[00:09:08.14] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As changes to paycheck protection program Loan forgiveness There have been many, but none this week. Congress skipped a week. Wegner hasn’t up to date free wagon. Or that explains the latest go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource Is and recorded events. Now back to digital accessibility with Laura Patch.

[00:09:42.04] spk_2:
So I have some visuals for this in my presentation. So let me see if I can describe it Well, um, imagine that you’re looking at a map of route map of buses, right, and you have five routes and there’s purple, blue, green, yellow, red. And if those arrows for the route across each other and you can’t tell the difference between purple and blue, you can’t tell where the route goes. But if you add a pattern to the color saying one of them is a stolid line and one of them is a dotted line, then you can continue to follow the path, even if you can’t tell the difference between those two colors.

[00:09:54.94] spk_0:
Okay, okay, good, Yeah,

[00:10:16.44] spk_2:
yeah, On this works in grafs as well. If you have a pie chart, my yourself makes this really easy. But you can do it in other programs where you can add patterns to your wedges. So do a light color in the background. And then do you hired darker color of the same shade, right? So it could be like blue with blue polka dots on top of it so that they can tell that high fly slice goes to whatever your label is on the side.

[00:10:30.09] spk_0:
Okay? And if you don’t do this, what is it? The problem that all the colors are gonna look similar to someone who has accessibility issues?

[00:10:39.64] spk_2:
Yes. If you can’t see colors than they can’t tell what high slice goes toe. What data point?

[00:11:05.96] spk_0:
Ok, um, same thing with bar charts. Is there anything same would apply to bar charges? Most pie charts? Um, graphs. You talked about lines? That’s the analogy. Analogy. There is the map. Right line. Line. Line line graphs. Okay, Okay. Yeah.

[00:11:31.99] spk_2:
The thing to think about right is that accessibility guidelines say you can’t use color alone to convey a meaning. So when you’re looking at graphs, you want to make sure that somebody can tell like if they can’t tell the difference between colors, they can still understand the information you’re trying to convey. Um, so another way to think about it is like if you’re looking at pins on maps, right, they might have different colors for restaurants. First days, uh, community service places, but you can’t tell the difference between those two colors. That doesn’t really help you if you add an icon to that pin suddenly like the icon of a fork tells you. But that’s an eatery versus just the color of the pen.

[00:11:52.74] spk_1:
Ah, I see. And then how will a reader interpret that?

[00:11:58.04] spk_2:
That’s an excellent question, usually aboard, to make sure that there is data labels as well. So label that as restaurant versus just the information.

[00:12:23.86] spk_0:
Okay, okay, I could see a mean a map. I’m just tryingto understand how a screen reader interprets, um, a map like that Local A. T M’s or gas stations. It can do

[00:12:59.08] spk_2:
that. Uh, maps. There were some of the most difficult things to make Fully accessible, said. There’s basically and if especially for a non developer person, it’s very difficult because there’s things you can put into the code of amount toe, give things, labels. Um, so most of the time If you’re thinking about accessibility from a non developer standpoint, you’re gonna be thinking about the visual ramifications. So those I Hans in your, um, in your pens, I always having a list of the information instead of just the map. Visual is really helpful to because the screen reader can read the list as opposed to the not itself.

[00:13:18.04] spk_0:
Okay, that makes sense. I was wondering if you’ve, uh, well, yeah, it wouldn’t make sense for the for people who don’t have a disability toe leave out a map and just do a list. But actually, so have both. Okay, the screen reader could make sense of the list. OK, OK. OK, um, anything else about data visualization?

[00:13:32.54] spk_2:
No, I think those are the key points for developers.

[00:13:38.74] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Um what else? Uh, what what

[00:13:40.99] spk_1:
was the other category? You had

[00:13:42.84] spk_2:
a slides.

[00:13:44.44] spk_0:
Oh, for slides. Okay, Power point or Google slides. Okay.

[00:14:42.64] spk_2:
Um, so the same thing. Kind of occurrence for slides as it does for images and documents. You want to make sure you have that alternative text. Um, but the thing that’s unique about slides is that you want to make sure you’re paying attention to the order items are on. Um, if somebody can’t use a mouse, we’ll use the tab button on their keyboard. Um, and the order that your items on your slide are is the order that this screen reader will also like, read your side through. Right. So an easy way to test how a screen reader is gonna read your content to someone is to use that tab button and navigate as if you don’t have a mouse. Um, So, for example, if you want your slide title to be read first, you want to make sure that the first tab is that and I’ve seen a lot of slides where it will be the image, footer, slide content and then title. And you’re like, Well, this would make no sense it was going to be in that order. How

[00:15:00.60] spk_1:
do you change

[00:15:07.13] spk_0:
it? Is that the sequence with which you put them on the on the template slide as you’re making it? Have you control with the tab sequences?

[00:15:11.46] spk_2:
Yeah, that’s the default way. Feel like as you add things, that will be the order, but you can right click on any item on your slide and send it to the back. Send it to the front. Defended forward. Backwards. So you just want to play around with that until it’s the right order that you want.

[00:15:29.93] spk_1:
Oh, that’s what that

[00:15:30.75] spk_0:
thing means. Send forwards finback. Okay, okay.

[00:15:45.74] spk_2:
That can get a little tricky for designers, because it’ll be like putting Bill block certain things with another square or some things that you do have to pay attention. Tilly, if you’re destroying what is visually you showing as well. But for the most part, you want to make sure that cat order makes us

[00:16:09.44] spk_0:
okay. Okay? And and that applies, um, for either Google slides or Power Point. You just right. Click on some right click on an item, and that’s how you can set the sequence. Okay. Okay. Um, anything else slides? Slides wise.

[00:16:13.49] spk_2:
No, that’s right. For slides.

[00:16:24.04] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, should we should we say anything more about color choices overall? Well, we’re

[00:16:26.43] spk_2:
okay. There’s Cem programs that you can check your contrast levels, um, as well as develop a color palette that it’s accessible. Um, so if your organization hasn’t done much in accessibility, you might want to talk to your design team just toe. Tweak some of those colors to make sure that their high contrast I see our club actually just recently changed our color palette to make it more accessible so that we can use more color combinations,

[00:17:06.28] spk_0:
Can you, ah, name any of those resources that are available to check color contrast, and you can send us to,

[00:17:59.58] spk_2:
uh, mine. My favorite is color palette Accessibility Checker. It allows you to put your full color palette into their system and then check each color against all of the colors in your palette for that accessibility purpose. Um, if you’re Jeff checking two colors for contrast purposes. Web aim color contrast Checker is a really good one on both of those. Tell you a and double A levels. So the Web accessibility has level A. Which is the least, uh, the minimum that you need to dio Double A, which is what most organizations looking for and tripled a triple. It is very difficult to do when you kind of have toe constantly, maintain it toe, reach it. So if you’re thinking about all the lawsuits that are coming out about accessibility, they’re mostly talking about double standards.

[00:18:07.43] spk_0:
What are some of those lawsuits around our visual products.

[00:18:52.84] spk_2:
Yeah, the big one that came out in within the last year is the dominoes case. Um, somebody was trying to order pizza online, I think, actually through their up on and was unable to do so. So they sued dominoes for acceptability. Um, and won the case. Oh, okay. Do you want one of the things that we’re still trying to get figured out is the 88 definitely applies to digital products. Over those bases are considered public domain, like public public domain, but like the public space similar to if you walk into the restaurant. Um, but the congress hasn’t actually passed anything that’s told us what those guidelines are. So most people are using the web accessibility, Web content, accessibility guidelines as what be our gaming for, But it’s not legally state that yet.

[00:19:11.94] spk_0:
Okay, Okay. But it is a benchmark for for now, until the courts Yeah, decide on a standard. Okay. Um what else? What else should we be talking about?

[00:19:34.94] spk_2:
Um uh oh. I have one more resource that might be helpful, but for people. But it’s called the color blindness simulator. Um, and it allows you to upload an image and then check different ways of color blindness. Though it’ll stimulate a red color blindness, the blue color blindness. So you can see what that image looks like if somebody can’t feel the images.

[00:19:51.34] spk_1:
Okay. And what is that again? Color

[00:19:53.81] spk_2:
color blindness in later

[00:19:57.54] spk_0:
simulator. Okay. Okay. Um, those are excellent. You ticked off like dozens of I don’t know to Doesn’t things or something. Excellent. Um, you leave it there. Does that sound like

[00:20:06.74] spk_2:
a

[00:20:07.39] spk_0:
good coverage? Okay. Cool. Uh, thank you very much. Laura Patch. She is digital product manager at the Sierra Club. Laura, Thank you very much.

[00:20:16.87] spk_2:
Thank you.

[00:20:22.24] spk_0:
And thank you for being with tony-martignetti. Non profit radio coverage of the the virtual 20 NTC were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software.

[00:21:47.29] spk_1:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountains software. Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you were That has features you need and exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now, time for Tony’s take two. You’re dismantling racism journey. That’s our newest special episode, and it’s out. You will have a long journey. So start with this single step. My guest is pretty itchy. Shaw. She’s president and CEO of Flourished Talent Management Solutions. Starting where you are with your people, your culture and your leadership. How do you gather data about racist structures that are right under your nose? Who do you invite to the conversation? She helps you see the way forward next week. I’ll have it on. She helps you see the way forward next week. I’ll have it on YouTube If you want to wait for the video, that is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for inclusive design with Nick Steen. How welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:21:58.79] spk_0:
profit radio coverage of 20 and TC 2020 non profit Technology Conference were sponsored at 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software. With Me Now is next in how he’s an independent accessibility consultant. Nick. Welcome.

[00:22:06.64] spk_3:
Hey, tony. Thanks for having me. Really nice to chat with you.

[00:22:10.24] spk_0:
Thank you. I’m very glad we could work this out virtually. And, uh and it’s good to know that you’re well and safe outside Vancouver, British Columbia.

[00:22:20.40] spk_3:
Yeah, it’s difficult times, but we’re staying safe yet.

[00:22:32.10] spk_0:
Alright, Alright, um, your NTC topic is forget accessibility. Think inclusive design s O. What is it about accessibility that you want us to? Who forget?

[00:24:41.84] spk_3:
I think that when we’re focusing on Leon excess stability, we’re forgetting that accessibility is good for everyone. No, As as an individual with a disability myself, I will never forget that implementing where backs disability is above and beyond for people with disabilities to be able to use the web. But if we’re thinking Onley in those terms, we tend to forget that, uh, making sure color contrasts are good. You know, you’re not using great text on great background. That’s good for people with low vision. But it’s also good for you when you’re using your mobile device and full sun when you’re talking about making sure the the target area for ah click is big enough for someone who has cerebral policy and doesn’t have fine motor control to click on that little check box. It’s also good for someone that has big fingers and trying to fill a form on the bus or public transit. Uh, when we’re talking about plain language, we’re also talking about? Well, maybe maybe someone has a functional in permit. Maybe it’s a young mom with a very young baby that has colic. So she’s trying to juggle a sick baby in one hand and read up information on her mobile phone on the other. And the cognitive load is very, very impacted. So there’s all these things that are really important for people with disabilities, but that I also happen to benefit everybody a little bit like in the physical world. We started implementing curb cuts that was good for wheelchair users. Sauce good for parents pushed airs for their kids, for delivery people with it appears on unstable. You, um, you may have to edit me and post.

[00:25:08.14] spk_0:
Yeah, let’s keep going. Ah, lot of times the, uh, the the way it appears is not. The word is not what’s getting recorded. I’ve had that happen a couple times, so we’ll just Kentucky as long as we can still hear each other. Yeah, um, and if the video becomes unusable, then we’ll just do the audio. Yeah. Also cuts also help those of us who are pulling luggage. Yep.

[00:25:28.39] spk_3:
So it’s it’s really a question of universal access. And when we’re start thinking about what we’re doing, we really should talk about inclusive design. It’s it’s going from, um it’s going from situation that are equal, but different to situation where everyone can benefit.

[00:25:35.96] spk_1:
Yeah. Okay. What is your own disability?

[00:25:41.02] spk_3:
I’m a wheelchair user.

[00:25:49.59] spk_1:
Okay. Does that impact screen use? No, it

[00:27:10.24] spk_3:
doesn’t. Not for me. Um, but I’ve had a situation where I was, Um, a few years ago, I managed to broke a wrist because I slid on ice in my I can’t out of the sidewalk felon in the street broke arrest. So I had a problem moving around, obviously. And about a week later, I broke the other risk in a car accident. So I was severely impaired from being able to use the keyboard. Normally, type about 80 words minute. And when that happened, I was starting to fingers and it was very, very awkward. Eso having been a an accessibility expert for a large number of years, I was also faced with having to to learn things I knew were there on you. The tools, for example, Dragon, naturally speaking, to be able to to speak to the computer for, for interacting and you all that I had used all that in testing. But the point was really brought home about no. As a wheelchair user, I realized the barriers in the physical world. But as, um, as a suddenly web disabled user, I had to relearn all these things again.

[00:27:53.64] spk_0:
Yeah, I see how deeply personal this is for you. Um, I’ve had guests on talking about accessibility. I know we’re supposed to You wanna think inclusive design? But those guests were framing it as accessibility on and, uh, I’ve never heard anyone mention the size of a radio button the size of anything that you need to click on as being difficult to land on for someone with cerebral palsy Or, I guess, other neuro muscular disabilities as well. Yeah. Um,

[00:29:18.64] spk_3:
yeah, it In general, we tend to to know about accessibility for screen reader users because it’s been the most obvious. The biggest barrier is for people that are have vision impairments and then rely on SSF technology like screen reader users. But the fact is, there’s a whole range of disabilities that effect using the Web. There’s obviously people with no vision or low vision There’s people with hearing impairments that, for example, if there’s no transcript for your show, they’re not gonna be able to interact with the shore or get material out of the show. But aside a side issue to someone who is born deaf and grows up deaf. Where American Sign language is their first language. The grandma, the structure of the language, is so completely different from English. So when they’re interacting with content, a lot of these native SL users English is their second language. And then if we don’t try to in plain English, it makes content difficult to digest. There’s just all kinds of little things that if it’s not something we’re used to, or we don’t stop to think about it, there’s impact all over the place.

[00:29:43.54] spk_0:
Yeah, Okay. Yeah. Um, let’s see. So, um, how should we? How shall we continue? Um, and there are other. Are there other design concepts I ideas that you want to share, just like your listing them and explaining them? Or should we approach this some other way?

[00:29:46.94] spk_2:
Oh,

[00:31:33.78] spk_3:
sure. If we’re gonna use video, let me share. You’re one of the a couple of the slides. I have in my, uh, in my deck for the presentation, which might actually bring something to to the viewers. Um, we’re tired, King a lot about, um, equality making the Web equal for everyone. And in this slide, I have an image of, uh, three kids, very short kid, the middle height kid in a tall kid looking at a ball game over a fence, and they’re all on, uh, all on the box. That allows them to be a little bit higher, but the box is the same height for everyone’s. The very tall kid gets to see very well above defense. But the very short kids still can’t see above it if we contrast that to equity, which is a concept that we’re talking a lot about Is that well, they’re very talk. It does not need any boxes to see over defense. The kid that’s no halfway between the two can use one box and he can see over the box and then a very short kid. If you stack two of those boxes suddenly he can see over defense. So we’re talking of an equitable situation, and that’s one of the concept that I want people to realize is we have to stop thinking about access abilities in terms of equality, but we really should start thinking about it in terms of equity. But if we push further, um

[00:31:52.69] spk_0:
and thank you, Nick, for explaining what’s on the slides because, ah, lot of people won’t be seeing the video. It’s an audio podcast. And then if our video is good, I’ll put that on the YouTube channel. But most people are just getting audio through the podcast. So you’re thank you for sounding like a screen reader as you describe what’s in the

[00:33:54.14] spk_3:
Yeah, it’s funny you mentioned that it’s something I’ve gotten used to do, and I do. Presentations is that I rarely put visuals up on the slide that I won’t take time to explain because I don’t know who in my audience has vision issues. I don’t know who may not be able to process an image. They’re better at processing the odor words then then what they’re seeing. So I always try Teoh to make sure that I describe what’s going on because it just it just makes on. Um, the other thing is that, um, when we’re thinking about this relationship between equality and equity. We could also start thinking about barrier free, which is the step beyond that, which is really thinking inclusively if in our thinking process, we think about whichever thing we design. And that includes offense, where we have to go through the process of what would be an equal experience, what would be an equitable experience? How about we do offense that everybody can see through without needing boxes to get up? So in this image, I have the same three kids an offence. But instead of being a psyllid plank fence, it’s actually a wire friends that everybody can see through. So I really want people to shift thinking from this idea of us versus them, people with disabilities and people without disabilities, disabled people versus abled people. I want to get people started to think about. We’re all in this together, and we have to build barrier free, um, environments, whether it’s in the built environment or on the Web. So it’s really important to to start that shift in thinking

[00:35:32.74] spk_0:
okay on, and it’s sort of, um, um, I don’t know if revolutionary is too strong a term, but you’re you definitely want to shift that you run a shift, at least if not if not revolutionary, it’s ah, It’s a substantial movement from where people are thinking now, Um, my sense of it is ah, lot of Web and I and I guess we shouldn’t even limited to websites. But because all digital products, right, Whether it’s ah, yeah, we’re a word document using headings, using the headings, um, format versus you, writing the text and then highlighting it Which reader isn’t gonna recognize? So it’s all it’s all digital products, not we’re not only talking about websites. Um, my sense is that most of the thinking is that you create something and then maybe you go back and try to adapt it, which would be, you know, uh, adding, adding the same, that would be your will be the first picture that you just showed, which would be changing it. What changing the way it appears for everybody or the ways design you have the way it appears for everybody. After I’ve already done my design and creation. Then I go back and yeah, and ad code for ah screen reader. Let’s say all right. My sense is that that’s the more prevalent on yeah, more prevalent methods methods.

[00:38:24.82] spk_3:
That is what’s happening mostly out there. We really want to shift the thinking in terms of thinking about accessibility from the get go. Obviously, in our my my talking about accessibility, I never forget. The primary goal of this is making things work for people with disabilities because we have such a need to access information, quicks example. So much of the information now is Onley available online because of the coronavirus. But so many of the size that provide that information is not available because they’re not accessible. So we have. We have a failure of the system for people with disabilities accessing information, which is critical and even, maybe vital. So we want to think about accessibility from the very early phases off the first design, where this wire frame or even just concepts, one of the complaint. A lot of the people I interact with and have done for over 25 years that have been involved in this wonderful world is that people say, Hey, Nick, accessibility. Yeah, I get it, but it’s so expensive, and then I start telling them about and experience from my own life uh, I know someone who built house, and they just had two steps under the entrance and the door was fairly narrow, you know, it was 28 inch door or something like that. 30 inch? Not sure. And then they became a wheelchair user and they had to retrofit the house. They had to actually remove the front door. They had to remove bricks around the front door to make a bigger opening. They had to put a ramp in. And of course, that was very expensive. But had they actually build house that was accessible in the first place? Had they put in a door that was wider and had no step entrance? That added cost at the time of building would have been maybe three, maybe 5% mawr, instead of costing tens of thousands of dollars to To fix digital accessibility is the same thing. If you build it accessibly in the first place, it won’t cost you any more because in theory your designers, your developers, your quality and assurance testers everybody in that chain and that workflow should be having the skills and the knowledge to build it accessibly. Now the reality is and doesn’t always happen, but, um, it’s good. So exists. Ability does not have to be expensive and can be baked in from the start. A little bit like blueberry muffins. Have you ever tried to bake blueberry muffins and put the blueberries after the muffins are cooked? It’s not gonna work.

[00:39:23.22] spk_0:
Have not have not tried that. Now, Um, the only reference I could think about in, uh, popular culture blueberry muffins made That makes me think of the movie. Ah, casino. Where the The head of the casino, Um uh, tells the baker that he wants, um, the same number of blueberries in every muffin because he just cut open a muffin that had very few. And his breakfast companion had ah dozen in his And, uh, so and that. But that’s not what you’re talking about. Sorry. That’s a silly digression. I like movies. Um, and casino is a very good one.

[00:39:55.02] spk_1:
Time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know that turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard. So people know you’re a thought leader in your field, and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re a turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got, but loads more time for inclusive design from 20 NTC.

[00:40:00.61] spk_0:
Any other idea what other ideas do you want to share around inclusive design?

[00:43:23.50] spk_3:
For me, one of the other important concept to think about his accessibility is not a checklist. We’re using standards and guidelines. For example. The standard right now for checking it for site is accessible. Not is the Web content accessibility guidelines Version 2.1. That’s the most recent version of the guidelines. And if we’re going through that, we end up using a checklist. Our ultimate images have alternate attribute. Can we get through to all the elements on the Web page using the keyboard? Only is there enough contrast between text and background? And there’s There’s a long list. There’s like nearly 80 success criteria, and each of them have specific testing checkpoints to to look at. But if we think Onley in terms of conforming to the standard, we’re falling back into this trap of looking at putting the blueberries back in the muffin after the muffins have been baked. We’re looking at basically the minimal amount of work we need to do to get away with with it to not be sued, for example, whereas I really want people Teoh thinking in terms of, we want our website to be usable by as many people as possible with as little difficulty as possible. So we should think about getting away from accessibility In terms of checklist. The checklist is useful as a way of getting a pulse of the health of our website, but we have to look at everything else as well. And if we’ve thought about Texas ability from the very early stages of the project, then at that point that should be fairly easy. The checklist is just there as a safeguard, but we’re looking also at the best practices. For example, a ramp you’re looking at a ramp in the built environment. The Americans with Disabilities Act accessibility guidelines called for ramp to have no more than one in 12 radiant. That means the ramp doesn’t go longer than a shorter than 12 foot. For every foot of height it goes up, and that’s a minimum. Most people would, uh, mobility impairments should be able to do that. But what about putting a ramp that is with a gentle slope where it’s one and 15? Maybe it’s not gonna hurt anything. You’re just adding a couple feet to your ramp. Nine times out of 10. You don’t have a space limitation to do that. And suddenly you’ve made it easier for everyone. So thinking. In terms of digital accessibility, we can think about similar issues. For example, color contrast. The guidelines says you have to have a contrast of 4.5 to 1 to be sufficient for people with low vision. How about you? Do you use something like sticks to one? You increase the contrast a little bit, use better colors. Maybe you use a folded font appropriately. And at that point, you’ve you’ve gone beyond checklist and you’ve made the site more usable or usable for everyone.

[00:43:50.10] spk_0:
Yeah, all right. Beyond the standard of beyond the beyond the minimum standard. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:51.16] spk_1:
You make a distinction

[00:43:55.07] spk_0:
between disability and impairment. Could you flush that out, please?

[00:45:05.09] spk_3:
Yeah. I’m coming at it from having worked in the independent living movement for for a number of years, where one of the basic concept is my disability is not the fact that I use a wheelchair. My disability is the fact that you have 15 steps to get into your building. My disability is not that I’m blind, but that you’re not offering alternative format for your menu. Uh, so we’re talking about the difference between a condition and a disability. The impairment is I’m wheelchair user joys blind, Julius deaf. Those are the impairments, the condition. The disability comes into effect when society builds environments that have barriers. So in effect, the disability has not come from within. The disability comes from without. If you build something that has barriers, you disabled me. And that, I think, is a very important distinction to make.

[00:45:34.77] spk_0:
Yeah, very good. Yeah. I could see how this is. Like I said, deeply personal for you. Um, and you think you’ve been thinking about these things for decades? These these concepts, um, and the disabilities that the culture of the society has has built the disabilities that society has built. Um, how do you want to Ah, you want to wrap up, please.

[00:46:44.41] spk_3:
I’d like to leave people with one message about accessibility. It’s a continuum. it’s not a bill. I’ll or in all you know, it’s not because you feel you can’t make everything accessible that you shouldn’t even try. The more you do it to, more accessible things are gonna be and start now, just starting now, make little changes. Your you know your webs that doesn’t use headings. See if you can implement headings. Look at the little things you can do the low hanging fruits, because the more you put in, the easier is gonna be for more people to use your your site or your documents. Whether it’s pdf word whichever Web based resource is, start now and do as much as you can without necessarily worrying about being an expert. That’s done this for 20 years. Um, talk to people about excess abilities, see what they suggest and try to implement in your in your workflow in your website whether you know you’re the executive director of non profit that never really thought about it and start thinking about it. Start the discussion.

[00:46:58.82] spk_0:
Thank you. Next in help Independent accessibility. Consultant. Thank you very much for sharing neck.

[00:47:04.38] spk_3:
Thanks, tony. It’s been a pleasure.

[00:47:06.61] spk_0:
My pleasure. Please stay safe outside Vancouver and thank you very much for being with tony-martignetti. Non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks a lot for being with us

[00:47:58.98] spk_1:
next week. More from 20 anti sees Smart speakers. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot CEO

[00:48:29.56] spk_0:
creative producer is Fair Meyer Family Sure profit other 95% go out

[00:48:48.37] spk_7:
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[00:00:10.94] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas

[00:01:50.94] spk_1:
for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow a gangly own aroma if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show. A better website. 52 tweaks In 52 weeks, Crystal and Dominique Hernandez revealed lots of small tweaks for your site to increase constituent reach, engagement and actions taken. They promise they reach less than an hour to implement Chris’s from Tuttle Co. And Dominique is with Institute for Policy Studies. This is part of our 20 NTC coverage. Also, keep your shiny new website shiny and new now that you’ve tweaked your way to a better site. How about a maintenance plan to keep it looking great? Get plenty of tips and techniques from Josh Lyman and Samantha Wasserman, both from Great Believer. That’s also part of 20 NTC coverage world about websites today. Non tony take to start the racism conversation were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo. Here is ah better website. 52 tweaks in 52 weeks. Hello and welcome

[00:02:39.64] spk_2:
to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and T. C. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference we’re supposed to have been in Baltimore. The conference was canceled, but we’re going ahead. Virtually non profit radio coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? My guests are, as we kick off, the coverages are first of all, the NTC interviews. My guests are crisp little and Dominique Hernandez Chris is principal at Tunnel Co. And Dominique Hernandez is website administrator for Institute for Policy Studies. Chris Dominique. Welcome.

[00:02:42.24] spk_3:
Thank you so great to be here.

[00:03:03.74] spk_2:
I’m glad the three of us could get together. I know you’re each well and safe. I’m glad to know that as well. Um, we can’t be together in Baltimore, but we can cover the topic just as well. I think virtually 52 tweaks in 52 weeks to a better website. So you’ve got something that lasts. E think you say each of these is like an hour or less, and we can tackle one of them a week. Dominique, is that true?

[00:03:16.04] spk_4:
That is true. Um, gold from a patient is to really keep each of these tips as a bite sized chunk that a busy and oftentimes trap not profit communications professional. 10. Set aside a little bit of time for each week. And when you add all of these together cumulatively you made of you made a big improvement on your site was not a huge time about that.

[00:03:59.28] spk_2:
Okay, Yeah. Your description says we can increase constituent reach and engagement. Um, actions taken. So these air Uh Ah. Audacious, ambitious outcomes. But we can do ah, you know, spend an hour a week doing them so cool or less. Less than an hour a week for some. So why don’t we dive in? Dominique won t kick us off with now. We’re not going to be able to 52 in in Ah, you know, roughly 25 minutes or so. So we need your top. Well, whatever. However, many, maybe 10 or so we’ll get to if we depending. How much? We elaborate. 10 maybe 12 or so. So pick your pick your top ones, and we’ll go here where you got Dominique.

[00:04:22.14] spk_4:
We have picked the couple to talk about as our top save, so I’ll talk about a few of mine. Um, what I mind is to use mobile and technology to help your your feed your mobile feed when they’re accessing your articles on a phone. You might have noticed this when you Google article or when you google with top it. Sometimes the first results will have will be from a new stores, and we’ll have a little lightning bolt left of them. And the lightning bolt means that you saw the framework that helped load Web pages in less than a second and uses 10 times less data than regular Web pages who prioritize your results. Um, and that back close time is really good. First facility is Well, that’s one of mine.

[00:05:06.17] spk_2:
This is called This is called Mobile AMP. A M P

[00:05:09.43] spk_4:
ghoul a mt for accelerated mobile project

[00:05:13.94] spk_2:
Accelerating mobile project. Okay. And where would you find that to install it.

[00:05:24.78] spk_4:
You have to install their framework on your site. You can download it from them and throw it into the code that you can install on your website around your horrible

[00:05:36.11] spk_2:
Okay. Um all right, so just search for Google. Accelerated mobile. Help me.

[00:05:37.53] spk_4:
Accelerated Mobile Project framework

[00:05:39.70] spk_2:
Project Framer. OK, thank you. All right, cool. That sounds That sounds like less than an hour, Much less

[00:05:45.70] spk_4:
it would be. Yes,

[00:05:47.49] spk_3:
it could be. Okay.

[00:05:49.20] spk_4:
You want about these back and forth?

[00:05:51.34] spk_2:
Yeah, Go ahead. Yeah, I will play a little pink bomb. If it gets laborious, I’ll let you know.

[00:07:01.00] spk_3:
Sure. Well, it’s also add that, you know, we do. Estimate is about an hour. But what may take me an hour may take you 15 minutes or 30 minutes, or it may take you two hours. So, um, some, we’re gonna be a bit longer or more difficult for other than others, depending on who you are and your access to different features and functionality in your organization. So I think since Google amp. Is while easy one somewhat a technical one, that’s probably gonna be a website administrator or when programmers that are working on I’m gonna give one. That might be easier for all of us to your lives or even for a communications team, which is using a color checker to figure out whether or not the colors that were used anything on our website are visible. The people with different forms of color blindness or are easy to read for people who have different visual impairments that might make it difficult to see things that are in low contrast colors and distinguish between the maybe text in the front and the background color of the Web page. Okay, so one tool that we suggested that could be used for this is Web aim dot ward, as resource is on a contrast checker. And then there’s also several color blindness checkers that could be easily down vehicle that are completely free to use.

[00:07:17.54] spk_2:
Okay, cool. I’ve got an interview coming up today or tomorrow on total website accessibility. Why you? Why? It’s beneficial for your site to be accessible to those with disabilities special needs, but but it helped improve the sight overall for everyone.

[00:07:44.03] spk_3:
It does when we also remember that you know one in 10 males and have some type of color blindness. And there are multiple types of colorblindness that that influence what they can see and how people see things. And not all. Color blindness is a light, but you know more than 10% of the population as either color blindness or other visual impairments. And so it’s better for all of us. Makes information easier to see you. And we have high contrast and colors representing important information or details. But it’s also going to make our sight completely inaccessible if we don’t check these things.

[00:07:55.32] spk_2:
Yeah, okay. And that was again. There was Web A I am dot org’s right

[00:07:59.64] spk_3:
with aimed at work.

[00:08:02.94] spk_2:
Okay, cool. All right, Dominique, your you know your turn.

[00:08:05.84] spk_4:
Sure. So another one of my favorites on here is to deploy a CBN TDN stands for content delivery network. I’m a developer. So a lot of fun in our technical, but I tried to really bring them down to things that are easy for everyone to access. Um, and what a cdn does is reduce the loading time of your site by actually reducing the physical distance that the information has to travel across wires. So instead of having one copy of your site on a server. Somewhere in the world, there are multiple local copies. And when when they’re pure miles on the wire that that improved the load time of your site they were once really, really expensive and difficult boy and would really require developer help. But as time have done on, they’ve gotten a lot cheaper and often time. Your Web host will have them. We’ll have a package for them. Um, that will cause not that much. Um, not model. Really crazy amount. So one of my tweets is definitely check to see if your host offers a cdn and how much it costs. Definitely worth it again for your time.

[00:09:09.44] spk_2:
Okay? And you’re asking the company that hosts your site?

[00:09:14.04] spk_4:
Yeah,

[00:09:42.04] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As. The ship is still moving fast. Congress passed the Paycheck Protection Program Flexibility Act. It allows your or GE 24 weeks to spend money on forgivable expenses instead of only eight, and increases the time to pay back what’s not forgivable. It’s all explained at wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource is and Blawg. Now back to a better website. 52 tweaks In 52 weeks.

[00:09:49.73] spk_2:
It’s getting a little monotonous going back and forth, but we’re gonna do maybe two at a time. But go ahead, Chris, you go and you’re gonna be feet up with new Chris, and then we’ll give Dominique to okay, Why don’t you choose

[00:09:57.10] spk_3:
a couple of a couple others that are favorites of mine? One, I think a fairly easy one that we all overlook. And that’s also something we should say here. Dominic and I are not pretending that we’ve done all of this perfectly ourselves. In fact, in developing this resource on developing this presentation way, we’re very clearly used. Examples of sites we work, our that needed. They need work. Uh oh. This is

[00:10:20.32] spk_2:
very humble of the two of you. Thank you.

[00:11:12.74] spk_3:
We’ll just a note like this is a process for all of us. And that’s exactly why we wanted Teoh share this idea of having about our weak we prove improve our website with, instead of just waiting five years, there’s been tons of money redesigning and trying to fix everything at once. And then, of course, falling a little bit short of that goal because there’s always going to be improvements to be made So with that two easy ones that could be done. One is the four for error page uh, for non tech things, you may not know what the 44 pages For everybody else, it is that error page that we see when the Web page we intended to find either be a link search result or something else was not bound. This often happens when websites ah, restructured, updated, redesigned or moves from different platforms and hosts. But it can also happen just because we changed the URL or change the title even of a block post. And so customizing are 44 Page ensures that people who are trying to find the content they couldn’t aren’t just left at a dead end. We can customize that page. You say something that’s a little bit more friendly than four or error and tell the user what’s actually happening and give them tools and actually fixing that error, like searching the internal website for the resource they were looking for, or giving a link to the most commonly used or access resource is where they’re hosted now, or asking the user to do something else. It’s to join you on a different channel or even subscribe and trying to contact you directly to try to find the help that you were looking for.

[00:11:48.05] spk_2:
So you could you could put a search bar on that 404 error page.

[00:11:52.09] spk_3:
You can quite easily. In fact, a lot of the content management systems like Group A. WordPress Jumla. Um, it’s fairly easy to configure this with the internal centric capabilities that already exists.

[00:12:03.88] spk_2:
OK, OK, yeah, that’s true. Now that I’m thinking about it, I have seen some that are much more friendly. You know, we’re sorry you landed here. We can’t find what you’re looking for. I guess I have seen them with a search or right, As you suggest. Maybe you’ll be interested in this other content that is most popular or something like that. Yeah. And the others air just, uh, somewhere. Just bear templates that nobody’s ever looked

[00:12:48.21] spk_3:
like Yeah or Brandon pages that maybe a euro they fought should go somewhere like a ah organization. Uh, orc slash donate. They thought was going to take him to the donation for which it should, if it doesn’t. But there’s all types of reasons that users might be typing in or finding a bad world. So the second tip there are traps that we can make is also utilizing our websites. They’re hosting service’s, depending on what Web post you have. Or if you’re using something like WordPress true, Juma or dribble installing a plug in that will help you easily find those 44 pages. What are the links that people are active thing? That I’m returning the 44 page so that you can create custom redirect X for each of those page pages, either taking them now not to that customized for four cage, but to the specific resource they have meant to find in the first place.

[00:13:18.83] spk_2:
Okay, how do we do this? How do we find all the links that are causing the four forever’s?

[00:13:48.18] spk_3:
Yeah, if you’re armed, any of the major content management system was like WordPress, triple or Jumah. There are plug ins that exists. We use redirect a redirection. Our WordPress often eyes an easy plug in that will tell you what of those four for what pages? What your l’s are returning those four for error messages and will allow you to create a custom, uh, redirect from a specific you world to the new one. Very easy to use. I mean, really this to the states. Less than an hour for sure. Um, just set up andan. Actively. Manage over time.

[00:13:57.14] spk_2:
Okay, cool. Those 404 related. Excellent. Thank you. All right, Dominique.

[00:14:50.89] spk_4:
Sure. So another one of the treats I’d like to talk about is that you can perform a responsiveness review test without having tablets or phones with part of you using developer pool in the major browsers in the major browsers in chrome and Firefox, it’s either control on Windows Air Command on a Mac plus shift. Plus, I brings up a developer pulled interface where you’ll see the website and you’ll see a bunch of code at the bottom of the great place at a CSS if you want to. But along the hop, there’s a bar where you can simulate all different kinds of devices all different. Find the full homes or programs in iPhones going back several generations, some of the more popular android phone tablet sizes, and you can also put in any custom screen resolution screen sizes that you want. You’ll see how your site will render on any of those and anything, anything that might be getting hung up anything that falls off the page, it doesn’t look quite right. You know exactly what? The edit? You actually have have any of the devices? Part of you did do that simulation right there. Building your brother.

[00:15:07.13] spk_2:
Okay. Could you give us those keystrokes one more time, please?

[00:15:10.84] spk_4:
Sure. Its control on the windows or command on a Mac plus ship. Plus I

[00:15:16.84] spk_2:
okay, okay.

[00:15:57.21] spk_4:
And another one, which is more about accessibility That Chris was talking about before with color tracker, um is to try to interact with your website without about their folks that that used what place? Exclusively using keyboard navigation. And you should be able to from the address bar, you should be able to hit a tab key and other keyboard controls to move through every element on the page. Those elements should be highlighted with a little box. And there are right. I see your face right now. Is this something that you don’t think about if you are mouth user all the time, But there folks who don’t use amount and is every element under page accessible to some without using a mouth, I think is a really good thing to check over. You could at least do that check in the hour time frame and then schedule out any improvements that you need to make.

[00:16:16.44] spk_2:
Okay. Yeah. I mean, if we have thousands of pages, isn’t that this is gonna This is gonna be a much longer one, beyond-potential

[00:16:21.04] spk_4:
e. I mean, for a lot of these, I would say focus on your home page and your top traffic pages like coffins analytic. See, with those top traffic pages are you know, what are the top five that really get people eyes on them? Um, if you have paid on your site that gets three visitors a year, it’ll be fine. Don’t worry about it. You know, focus on what really has live on it.

[00:16:40.64] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Did you give us another one?

[00:16:47.24] spk_4:
I give you another one. Okay. I’m gonna go down in the things

[00:16:48.45] spk_2:
I said to and then I made three e.

[00:16:52.84] spk_4:
I have another one right here. This

[00:16:54.66] spk_3:
one actually is

[00:16:56.56] spk_4:
two for easy. Especially if you’re using WordPress or another constant mounting system at a two factor authentication for your log in screen.

[00:17:05.94] spk_2:
Two factor authentication. Oh, yes. Okay. Yes.

[00:17:09.05] spk_4:
You have Robert for walking folk logging in from different locations. If you’re sharing while giving the developers or other external people just make sure that everyone feeling being really faced when they log in and protector security

[00:17:20.59] spk_2:
is that sort of a spy becoming the standard now? I mean, I get I get that offer from a lot more sites now. Then I did on it Seemed like even just a year ago or so, you know, encouraging me. Teoh, sign up for two factor authentication, whether it’s by email or by text message is that Is that sort of becoming the standard Loggins?

[00:17:41.72] spk_4:
I haven’t. I see. It was standard. A lot of fun with account. Loggins for other website. I haven’t seen it. I would like to see it, but haven’t seen it rising as a standard for your actual admin account to manage the back end of a website. But I do think it’s a smart security move.

[00:17:57.44] spk_3:
Okay, if I can add I mean, we’re seeing websites of nonprofits becoming targets of attack increasingly so over the last four years, a ZX, much as foreign agents or tryingto have corporate websites. It’s They’re also trying to hack non profit websites, and it’s incredibly easy. We’ve heard of nonprofits have had their websites held for ransom, who had them taken over used maliciously. And so I actually have toe not just agree, but kind of reinforce. I think we’re done. Nick is saying that we should all consider two factor authentication of requirement for our jobs and are not profits. If we have access to something like administrative controls of a website, have access to private constituent data. Have access to private donor data. Mads, most of us in our organizations.

[00:18:42.93] spk_2:
Okay, Chris, go ahead. You’re

[00:20:57.34] spk_3:
okay. Two more. Two more. Um, these are actually two of my favorites because it’s something that’s so in a way, very easy. But, um, none of us really do well and myself included. I think we overlook it because it’s what happens after a transaction. So it’s the confirmation page and the acknowledging the emails is there to tweaks confirmation page and acknowledgement emails that people see and receive after they take a major action on our website. Like sign up, subscribe. Donate to us. You think of the confirmation page 100% of people who went to the process and got to your donation page and made a donation. 100% of them are going to see a confirmation page, and about 80% of them are gonna open that acknowledgement email. And yet most of us use that content as another debt. It basically a wall to say thank you. Here’s what you just did. I find it especially funny of acknowledging the emails, and I’ve done some research with various organizations that worked with over the years, looking at large scale amounts of acknowledgement emails that were sent versus newsletters versus appeal letters versus other types of email communications. And while emails, appeals and other newsletters receive anywhere between, like 10 50% open rates, at least 80% of our users are opening the acknowledgement email that tells them what they just did on your website. So can we use that as an opportunity to provide a new engagement for them or a new call to action? But I try to end every engagement opportunity or touch points like a donation with an opportunity for three new touch points to begin, and that could be as easily as watch this video to find out how your body is gonna be abused or the impact you just help us make It can be. Subscribe to our email so you can stay on top of what’s happening next. It could be a tender local event. Follow us on social media. Tweet your support. There’s so many ways that we can keep folks engaged instead of simply saying thank you and goodbye. So that’s two of them. That’s our confirmation page. The page we see after the taken action. What? How can we customize that to make it more engaging and offer more for the donor to do next? And it’s our acknowledge me email, usually an email they received within 24 hours after taking a major action on our website. And Mike Wise also usually gives them tax information or confirmation what they just did, but also an opportunity to ask them to tweet, click, follow, share, watch we do more.

[00:21:14.05] spk_2:
Okay, I was just gonna ask, Are these good places Teoh acquaint people with the social channels for

[00:21:42.95] spk_3:
absolutely campus? Yeah, I would. I would make it a little bit more personal, probably, and customize it more than just follow us. Um, I took one tactic I’ve seen used. That I really appreciate is following it up with a thank you video that maybe is, or an impact video that’s hosted on a social media channel that you can either link to, say, Watch this video and then take them to Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn wherever you want them to be. YouTube had them watch it there so that they’re actually exposed to that. Another candle, your on instead of just sending them back to your website where they just came from.

[00:21:51.57] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Does that count is two or that was two places to do. The same action

[00:21:57.36] spk_3:
that was to different actions that we contain. Customizing a web page is gonna take about an hour problem.

[00:22:00.94] spk_2:
Okay, um, you want to another one?

[00:23:50.84] spk_3:
Sure. So speaking of calls to action, another one that we want to talk about was effective Calls to action. And there’s been lots of research on this from a lot of different companies. One very famous study is actually from head pub spot. Um, that showed ah, fairly drastic increase in conversions on click throughs. Win the links that in the buttons that were used with the cholera action included more than something like read more or, um, or down or Ah uh, was it click here. That’s the other one. Whenever we have a link on a Web page that says Click here or a button that just says Submit, that’s the other one that could be bothersome. So those are basic called actions and Hub. Spot says that smart to call the actions that are very specific description action oriented can actually increase the conversions by around 42% of the click throughs. This these men not conversions pictures by 42% to those links. So instead of read Mawr, maybe, the link says, register for 52 tweaks. Webinar. It’s descriptive. It’s clear it’s gonna be more action oriented saying, Register, do this. You’re telling them exactly what they want them to do. And it’s also going to be better for search engines because it tells search engines what’s behind that link. It also is better for screen readers because screen readers will read out a link that says, Read more and then they don’t know what MAWR it would divorce about, uh or just says submit, and they don’t know which form are no Web page there actually submitted. So we can be a bit more specific with our buttons instead of submit by saying these, like, register, read more, sign up post to Facebook. So instead of just share post specifically to each channel on a button download, even download the resource.

[00:24:14.27] spk_2:
Okay, Okay. That’s a good one, because there’s But the buttons are so ubiquitous. Um, have to quibble with you about called toe actions. I would I would have said calls to action. Like attorneys general. Yeah, Generals. So I don’t You might want Yes. Just ah, tweak. 53 tweaks in 52 weeks. Um, how many? Go ahead, please.

[00:25:15.24] spk_4:
Sure. So two more for me and these. I will. I will take it out of developer land. Um, and and these These are actually both really quick and easy. These could be done in far less than an hour. So one of them is placing a call to action In your footer, people look at the footer that’s been shown through through heat mapping tools where they met over people. I goes where their mouth is go. So political action and that Twitter, if you can. And if you can embed a form directly getting more and more popular to have a tiny subscribe form in your in your footer that’s just birth last and email stupor. Simple one and then another super simple one is auditing your staff page. Is there anyone left on that half page that doesn’t work the organization anymore? Is that leading to their email address that might help you monitor anymore? Is there anyone who has been hired who’s not all that page and needs to be? I think I when I also consult and when I do what I for naught profit law that time. You know what I’m working on the content with, um, that we like, Oh, they’re seven changes the stat page that we just haven’t made in the last six months. So your view is, get a let out, keep it up to date. It doesn’t take a long time.

[00:26:04.04] spk_2:
No, it’s coming to me to while we’re the three of us are talking Dominique that depending on when I air this, you know, we may still all be working from home. Um, I don’t know for sure, but a good chance. These are the kinds of things that could easily fit on a task list. You know, you could not that we’re working from home and have enormous amounts of free time, but we it seems like the kind of things things we know we could pick our top half a dozen or so that we want that we want to take on of the ones were discussing and and you know where to take them off one a week or once, even one every couple weeks while we’re, you know, most likely still working from home

[00:26:13.35] spk_4:
coolly. And also, I think, what kind of your stressful Sometimes it feel, what they are for everyone right now and which they probably will be for a while. But I feel really easy to have, like, one relatively right. This is why people put shower on their to do list so they can

[00:26:28.07] spk_2:
cough

[00:26:28.36] spk_4:
it off. It’s feel good and create momentum to have something easy that you can do and then check off and move forward.

[00:26:45.58] spk_2:
Okay, this is cool. This is a great one to kick off R and D C coverage with easy, easy fixes. Don’t take long. Um, let’s see who who started because we’re gonna We’re gonna wrap with the next round. So who Christie went

[00:26:52.05] spk_4:
you

[00:26:52.51] spk_2:
used. Okay, Chris, Go ahead. Wraps up.

[00:28:38.64] spk_3:
Well, okay, well, let’s wrap it up with one of them. That should probably actually be first that we haven’t already done these yet. And that’s around setting up Google tag manager. So Google tag manager is the modern future proof version of a tag data that you in bed under website and it allows Google analytics and other code to be embedded on your Web site. So we contract outta around how users are accessing our website where they’re coming from and more information. So most of us by now probably have Google Analytics code on our website already. Hopefully, we’ve already updated, but if we haven’t yet Google tag managers, the new version, because who will analytics code would require tweaking of the code. Every time we wanted to add a new event, an event, it could be something like ensuring that we’re able to track the number of PDS that are downloaded on our website or able to track the percentage of a page that somebody schools on our website. These are things that Go analytics doesn’t track by default, although they can be easily configured with Google tag manager. Over time, we can add new event triggers or new code, even things like Facebook pixel, which is used to attract people from Facebook who are on our website taking actions after seeing an ad or post. All of this is much more manageable, manageable and easier to use. With Google tag manager like Google Analytics, it’s free to set up. I need to be found a tag manager dot google dot com And then we have about five more that if you end up coming in watching the recording of our presentation or downloading the slide, you have access to all of these that includes, like spending an hour one week setting up event tracking to ensure that P, D. EFS and other non native forms of content are actually tracked. When access on their website. Well, like I suggested the scroll on a page, we can track the percentage of school on page, which is incredibly important for organizations that are writing a lot of contents. Blawg Post resource is other educational information.

[00:28:51.06] spk_2:
Where can we find the slides.

[00:29:01.24] spk_3:
So the slides and the recording of this presentation are gonna be available at tuttle dot link slash 52 tweaks total dot link slash 52 tweaks. That’s to U T T L E. You’ll get the slides. You can get a recording of our webinar. You can also subscribe to an email if you like. A drip campaign will send you one email week with one of these tweaks and links to instructions on how to start it.

[00:29:31.84] spk_2:
Oh, cool you and dominate for doing this together we are. Yeah, awesome. All right, that’s that’s fabulous. All right. Thank you very much. Both of you, for ah, kicking off our coverage. It’s Chris Total, principal at Tunnel Co and Dominique Hernandez, website administrator for Institute for Policy Studies. Thanks to both of you. Thanks so much.

[00:29:39.84] spk_5:
Things are just

[00:29:41.34] spk_2:
responsive by Cougar Mountain software. This and TC coverage. Thanks so much for being with our 20 and TC coverage,

[00:31:48.01] spk_1:
we need to take a break. Cougar Mountains software. Their accounting product Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial. Check it out on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant non Now, time for Tony’s take to start the racism conversation. That’s our latest special episode. If we’re going to have a legitimate national conversation about race, it’s got to start with each of us. We can’t count on somebody else. I used to have a Boy Scout leader who said There is nobody named somebody else. We certainly can’t count on political leadership. They’ll just get dragged along later on after we start things after we create the momentum, it starts with each of us. For every time you’ve seen Gandhi’s be the change you wish to see in the world posted on Twitter and Facebook, this is a moment for you to walk the walk, not merely read the post. There’s 401 year old systemic racism running throughout our country, including throughout the non profit community, including throughout your non profit. Do you want to identify it and deal with it, or do you want to merely read the post and walk by like the officers who stood by while George Floyd was murdered. Like the officers who walked by. Martin Gino laying bleeding in Buffalo. If you want to be the change, you need to start the conversation. That’s where our special episode helps you do. My guest is Case Suarez, executive director of Equity in the Center. It’s out in podcast. If you prefer video, it’s on my YouTube channel in the racism and white privilege playlist that is tony Stick do Now. Time for Keep Your shiny new website shiny and new.

[00:32:21.94] spk_2:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference. The conference had to be canceled, unfortunately, but we are continuing virtually with our coverage. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. Joining me now are Josh Rheiman and Samantha Wasserman. They are both with great believer. Josh is the founder and president, and Samantha is account manager. Josh Samantha. Welcome.

[00:32:24.44] spk_5:
Thanks. Thank you.

[00:32:44.14] spk_2:
I’m glad we could work this out. It’s good to know that you’re each well and safe both in Brooklyn, New York. I’m glad I’m glad we could get together. Today. Was to We’re, ah, talking about your conference topic, which is Keep your shining new website shiny and new. Um, Josh, why did you start us off? What seems to be the problem? Why did you think that we needed ah, session like this? Put it that way.

[00:32:52.74] spk_5:
Sure. Um, we find that a lot of organizations invest a ton of time and money and energy and their websites, and then they just sort of forget they exist and way like to compare, um, a new website to a new car. A car starts to depreciate a sooner to drive it off the lot. And if the websites not properly attended to the same kidnapping into it. So we like to devise really strategic maintenance plans with organizations we work with to make sure that the value continues to grow over time.

[00:33:22.44] spk_2:
Okay. Maintenance plans. So? Well, we have some time to get into the maintenance planning. Um, you have some tips on keeping it fresh and keeping content fresh. Um, Samantha, Anything you want to add to the beginning of part of this?

[00:33:38.19] spk_6:
I think Josh pretty much summed it up. We know that it could be a lot to manage a website, and we have some ideas for how to keep things interesting and up to date after lunch.

[00:33:47.88] spk_2:
Okay, cool. So why don’t you get us started? What? Uh, what goes into this maintenance plans, Samantha?

[00:34:57.43] spk_6:
Well, we think it’s really important. Teoh identify key people at your organization to keep the website up to date. We know it could be a lot of work for a single staff member to be responsible for all of an organization’s website updates. So we always recommend finding different gatekeepers for different types of content. So whether it’s an HR team being responsible for job postings or development team being responsible for keeping events up to date, it’s really important to try to spread out the responsibility a little bit. Um, it’s also really important toe. Think about keeping content current. So are you updating blawg posts? Are you updating your staff and board list? Users are going to come to your site trying to find up to date information about what’s happening at the organization. So it’s really important wherever possible, that you’re keeping content updated. So even if it’s little things like shifting an image on your home page or promoting a new program just something so that the state feels less stale every time a user visits. That could go a long way in helping things feel dynamic.

[00:35:04.74] spk_2:
What about that blawg, Samantha? It’s it’s that can be daunting. You recommend? I guess, I presume. But I won’t make explicit distributing that around so that different different teams are contributing content to the blocks of the Nobody feels burdened and overwhelmed, but it still stays fresh.

[00:35:50.06] spk_6:
That’s a great question. We hear this a lot, you know, It could be a little bit Don thing to keep, um, up to date with a content production schedule. So there’s a couple of things you can do. You can definitely bring in various collaborators to tell stories from all over the organization or client stories potentially but also think about what you’re going to call that log Block has a certain association in terms of a frequency of posting. Maybe if you come up with a different creative title for your blogged, it’ll help alleviate that pressure a little bit. Andan also tried

[00:36:05.93] spk_2:
What? What? Let me Let me stop you. If you got an example or two of something creative instead of calling it you know, on the main navigation bar tickling our blawg. You got something? Sure, but one

[00:36:07.03] spk_6:
of our Yeah, one of our clients is called Data two X. Um and they came up with a name for their block called the two X tape. Um, so just something a little bit

[00:36:16.73] spk_2:
creatively

[00:36:17.56] spk_6:
on their name. It’s not too different than a blogger, but just, um maybe people don’t associate that with the same weekly update,

[00:36:24.73] spk_2:
wearier more often lower, lower the expectations

[00:36:32.83] spk_6:
exactly. And then also try toe produce content in advance so that if there’s a busier time, you know, maybe it’s grown a virus and you don’t have time for your regularly scheduled programming. You have something in your back pocket that you can go back to something evergreen, um, that you prepared when things are a little bit slower. So it’s always great to kind of load up that content calendar when you have the time.

[00:36:54.44] spk_2:
Yeah, OK. OK, Josh, more, more. You want to add on the this overall maintenance plan?

[00:37:37.72] spk_5:
Sure. I mean, a lot of the things that Samantha is talking about the things that I can talk about also are things that really anybody could do at their organization. You don’t need to be a designer, you don’t need to be a developer. And there are maintenance plans that we construct that are much more Design and development focused, but the plan for this session was to really give people tips and tricks they can put into action immediately. Um, and that could be whether they are, you know, preparing to start a website redesign process that they’re in the midst of one or if they recently completed one. It’s always good to start thinking about ways that they can put these interaction themselves and don’t need to actually hire an outside vendor. And there is a lot of other, um, there a lot of other ideas that we do want to mention. I think a really important thing, though, that you can do either during the processor after is to make the most of your Web vendor. And there’s a lot of things there went. Bender can do it. Prepare your website in a way that makes us effective. This possible. So, for example, every website we do in every website profit every website built nowadays is much more user friendly in terms of being able to make content updates to it. We use WordPress. WordPress is like 40% of the Internet at this point, and we’re presses so nice because we can custom design a cider or whatever Web under your working with custom. Design it, but you can to make edits toe all the pages of your site yourself, whether it’s adding a new team member, duplicating a page for a new campaign or otherwise. So that’s one thing that we always encourage people to make sure their Web vendors are doing to make sure that their site will also be easy to manage. And there are other things. Also, any Web make sure

[00:38:36.74] spk_1:
let’s go through some of these tips and tricks. Yeah, don’t.

[00:38:39.42] spk_5:
All right

[00:38:43.35] spk_2:
way Don’t hold out on us, please. About

[00:40:23.21] spk_5:
yeah, for sure. I mean, there are a lot of other things Any Web vendor should connect your site to. Google Analytics. You should have a tool for search engine optimization and Google ads is something you have the Google ad grant and a really important piece of our process, and everyone thunders process should be to give the organization a training guide that actually shows how to use the back end of your site, whether it’s WordPress or truthful or another content management system. So yes, there should always be a training session where the agency runs the organization through the back end of their site shows not a make updates, every page of the site, and so on and so forth. But the training guide is a nice reminder for someone who may have been in that session but forgot circle pieces but could also be something that’s given to a new staff member when they join so they don’t need to get the whole run down the 30 minute run down for another staff member. They could just take the guide and go off to the races. And on a similar note, we recommend creating something we call a in case of emergency document. And this is just when things go wrong. This is the thing you turn to. So it should have that training guide in it, or a link to the training guide so anybody could make any changes to the site. They need to, for example, with um cove in 19 of somebody in less than they could change the home page to call out their approach to responding to the crisis. They need to be able to log into the site and make that change. So it’s always great to have access to that training guide. But it’s also important that access to your Web vendor. So we always recommend putting contact in both for that web vendor into this incurred in case of emergency document contact didn’t vote for your donation platforms. Other platforms on your side should something break. And suddenly things are not working correctly to make sure that could get fixed as soon as possible. Also, log in credentials. Oh, God.

[00:40:25.97] spk_2:
Um, I was gonna change subject little bit. So did you want us to say finish something about log in credentials?

[00:40:33.08] spk_5:
Yeah, this quickly. I did other things you can put into this document or log in credentials to other platforms on your site. Even contact info for your host. If suddenly your site is down and you have no idea why. Just making sure you have at your disposal information. You need to fix things if they go wrong. Because we always say Internet is is an in perfect place. Google docks goes down. Google doc breaks. So it’s always great to have at your disposal access points to fix things. Hopefully, they don’t go wrong too often when they dio, you should be able to resolve them quickly.

[00:41:14.61] spk_2:
Okay, um, I was gonna take a little digression with you. I’m wondering why you prefer WordPress over Drew Pole or Jumla. Can you, uh you sound like maybe your WordPress evangelist. Do you want toe? Explain why, Why? You prefer WordPress over other ones?

[00:41:20.61] spk_5:
Sure, and I’m sure Samantha want to chime in here. Also, the main thing for us is that we do all of our design completely from scratch. And we do our very best to then build the websites in a way where any client can very easily manage it themselves. And we find the WordPress works the best for that with something like dribble and dribble releases a new version. Um, you often need to make pre wholesale updates to your side if not fully revamp your sight completely. And with WordPress, the updates that are released are are easier to handle. They don’t require widespread changes. So we think that where press works well to make sure the site will still look beautiful. It would be easy to manage and also will work well for years to come given, given its its build set up and also the fact that it is like 35 to 40% of the Internet.

[00:42:06.80] spk_2:
Yeah, Samantha, anything you want to add on, Why WordPress.

[00:42:28.90] spk_6:
It allows us to make our designs as customers. We’d like a CE Josh mentioned. And so it’s kind of the perfect marriage, something that we can give over to our clients once it’s finished and looks amazing. And we do a lot of, um, kind of modular template ties pages. And it allows our clients to mix and match different pieces to meet their needs for new programs or new cook campaigns as they come up.

[00:42:35.30] spk_2:
Okay,

[00:42:35.71] spk_5:
We also find that since WordPress is so popular that when we create a new website for an organization, some of not most of people that we trained to manage that side have dabbled with WordPress or even manage a WordPress site before, So it’s less of a 0 to 60 approach

[00:43:29.42] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know that turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard. So people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re a turn hyphen two dot ceo we’ve got but loads more time for keep your shiny new website shiny and new. Samantha, let’s go back to

[00:43:40.40] spk_2:
you. Uh, one of the things that you mentioned in there Ah, session description is techniques to allocate different types of updates to different team members. Uh, what can you What can you flush out there for us?

[00:44:07.30] spk_6:
Sure. Well, piggybacking off of the WordPress discussion a little bit, um, within WordPress. And I’m sure in other CMS isas well, there are different levels of access that you can give different users, so this could be really useful. Maybe you have an intern who’s helping you with those block post you don’t want to give them. We’ll publish access on the web site. But you want people to drop something that a supervisor then reviews, or you can give that huge. Our team that I mentioned before access to just the job posts on the website but not full access to the website. So there’s a lot of customization that you can do. Um, and we always think it starts to just get a ZX Many people on board with learning how to update the website is possible. Just toe. Like I said, spread out the responsibility. But also, you know, if someone leaves the organization, you don’t want to be left in a place where you can update your website for several months because the one person with all of that knowledge is no longer available.

[00:44:54.49] spk_2:
So it sounds like you really favor a decentralized approach. Teoh Content Management is there Anybody who maybe shouldn’t be shouldn’t make medic, maybe contributes content, but it doesn’t have the authority to change the site themselves. They really like that.

[00:44:59.09] spk_6:
We try to hide as many settings in our WordPress dashboards as possible. That could lead toe larger site wide or code changes. Uh, but within an organization, it really does depend on the organizational structure. But typically there is kind of one person on the communications team who will really, um, lead the whole process and assigned different responsibilities. But we do find that it could be a really overwhelming task, especially when you first launch to get all the content loaded in. And that’s where we see in our website projects. Um, some of the biggest challenges or holdups timeline wise for our clients. So we do always recommend to try to find several different team members who can emphasise.

[00:45:58.15] spk_2:
Okay, what about keeping supporters engaged? You know, people engaged with your site after, ah, full blown launch. I mean, some of that, for a good part of that is keeping content fresh. I realized that something beyond beyond just that the you can talk about

[00:46:03.72] spk_6:
Absolutely. So it’s like you said, it’s not enough just to keep the site updated. It’s also important to make sure that, um, users continue to find their way to your site. So when the site first launches, of course it’s important to you social media posts and email blasts and Google ads to drive traffic to the site. But this continues to be important even after lunch. In this maintenance period sides, you add new content or pages like upcoming events or a capital campaign. It’s really important to use those tools to drive users back to the website again.

[00:46:36.58] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Um, Josh is there. Is there anything that would sort of be a trigger for when we need ah, refresh of our site? Maybe it’s not a full blown new site, but at least a refresh or or maybe something more like. Are you listening to what people are saying? People don’t come out and say your site looks dull or you know, your site looks like 2003. But how do you I didn’t know that it may be time for at least a refresh.

[00:47:06.18] spk_5:
Yeah, there’s really two sides of the equation. The first is the visual side and really just asking people to honestly look at their website and feel like if it reflects who they are from a design perspective doesn’t do justice to their mission and their work. And also is the user experience clear? If you send somebody to the site looking to make a donation, can they easily do it? If you send somebody to the site to fill it a volunteer form can they get there without calling the office to find out how to do it? So sometimes an old website doesn’t just look bad, but actually can waste time for staff members who need to explain how to get there and also just not do justice to the current status of their work. That’s the front end to the site, but also back in perspective, like we’re talking about with site management. It’s so important that anybody without coding skills or technical expertise or average non profit staffer could make changes to the site themselves. And we have found that a lot of sites that were revamping they actually are circa 2003 or something around there. And because of that, they look very outdated. They don’t really have relevant programmatic language compared to what the organization does now, and they’re impossible to update. And if they can update it, they can update only small components. And if they can’t have to rely upon 1/3 party who often has to have him enter into a ticketing system, and they could take a couple of days to make a very small change like let’s, say, changing your phone number.

[00:48:44.81] spk_2:
Yeah, okay, Okay, Um, if you have all these people contributing to your site, how do you make sure that things look the same. Feel the same across across all the different pages that they might the different teams air, contributing to consistency. Basically, I’m asking about How do you How do you make sure your site looks consistent throughout?

[00:48:51.77] spk_6:
I think that goes back. Teoh Josh’s point about leaning on your Web thunder and making sure that you have adequate training or training guide, Um, after the site is built but also on the organization side. It’s really important to have that kind of team leader who oversees all website updates, and you kind of be the consistency police or the brand police, you know, make sure that the tone is the same and that the correct templates being used making kind of run point on everything

[00:49:17.97] spk_2:
okay,

[00:50:01.26] spk_5:
Yeah, and piggyback enough that that training guide will have very specific information or shoot ivory specific information. For example, the featured image on your home page measures this this many pixels by this many pixels. So when you replace it with a new photo, it’s not cropped awkwardly. It’s not too small to fit the space that’s really important. But another thing you can get from your webs under is design assets from your website. And if an organization of somebody on staff whose aware of how to use Adobe in design or photo shop or illustrator you can actually request assets for graphics like let’s say, an infographic that talks about how many people you served in 2019. If the organization has that raw file, they can update it for 2020 and that can replace that file on the website. But even if an organization doesn’t have people that air designed savvy with those programs, they can still request all the assets to have them. You know, j pegs of the infographics another graphics used in their sight snake and then use those and other places like, um, like an email blessed to again create that level of consistency like you were talking about across all these different channels.

[00:50:23.30] spk_2:
Yeah. Okay. We still got a few minutes left, Josh. Anything? What happened? We talked about that. You’d like people to know.

[00:50:34.66] spk_5:
Good question. I I think the

[00:50:35.72] spk_2:
okay

[00:51:10.16] spk_5:
ultra. One thing out there. I think a lot of the a lot of the need for Web maintenance comes from relief. Thinking about who you are as an organization on what are the key actions you’re driving. So donations air almost usually number one for all, or eggs. And the visitors, their science, then you need to think about is event registration important? Our email sign ups important. Our volunteer sign ups important because you want to keep your site current with all the content we’re talking about. But you also want to drive people apart to your site where they can take those actions that are so important to keep your organization running. So kind of assessing the real purpose of your site and those key actions you’re driving could help to dictate what kind of maintenance plan you might need.

[00:51:21.39] spk_2:
Okay, How about you, Samantha? Something you’d like to add that we haven’t talked about yet or go more detail or

[00:51:32.86] spk_6:
thanks, Josh pretty much covered it. Um, I think it’s really important toe. Make sure that Yeah, um, realizing that users are going to your website as probably the first place they look for updates about your organization. And so all of the tips that we’ve outlined are really important just to make sure that information is up to do and there’s nothing that screams outdated, like an event being highlighted on the home page that past two months ago. So just being really cognizant of, um, what contents being featured and how often you’re checking back on your site?

[00:52:05.95] spk_5:
Okay, I’ll throw one more thing out there, tony, which is oftentimes it’s very hard for an organization to get funding allocated to a website redesign process because that’s money that could be going elsewhere. Money date on fighting for for years. Um, but what we recommend organizations do is not just fight for the money to cover that website redesign, but also fight for money that could handle maintenance and maintenance in terms of how it’s structured is really a case to case basis you could talk about with your Web vendor, but you’ll wanna have additional funds lying around and ready for use to make sure that your Web vendor can continue to work with you. Because all the things that we’re talking about you can do yourself. There are certain things, like if you want to make a brand new page from scratch or create new graphics or in bed a new piece of functionality, it’s important to have hopefully some budget remaining after the initial Web redesign budget was depleted. To get the full picture and to keep your site growing from, ah, more of a design and development perspective.

[00:53:07.72] spk_2:
Okay. All right, we’re gonna wrap it up there. All right? That’s Josh Rheiman, founder and president of Great Believer and Samantha Wasserman, account manager, A great believer, and both in Brooklyn, New York, where the company is Thanks so much. Thanks for sharing. Just like dozens of tips. Thank you very much.

[00:53:17.05] spk_5:
Thanks, tony.

[00:53:27.01] spk_2:
And all right, stay safe and thank you for being with tony-martignetti. Non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us

[00:54:23.36] spk_1:
next week. Women of color in Fundraising and Philanthropy A new online community will have the founder back, Yolanda Johnson, plus more interviews from 20 NTC. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for the free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative

[00:55:02.15] spk_0:
producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz Managed Stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this Music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.