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Nonprofit Radio for November 28, 2022: Thought Leadership & Content Strategy


Peter Panepento & Antionette KerrThought Leadership
Peter Panapento and Antionette Kerr co-authored the book, “Modern Media Relations for Nonprofits.” They share their insights on how to build relationships with journalists so you get heard as the thought leader you are. Plus, other media strategies, like crisis communications. This was part of our coverage of the 2020 Nonprofit Technology Conference.





Valerie Johnson & Katie GreenContent Strategy
Now that you’re an established thought leader, you need to produce multichannel content that’s relevant. Also engaging, actionable, user friendly and SEO friendly. Also from 20NTC, Valerie Johnson from Pathways to Housing PA and Katie Green with The Trevor Project show you how.





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[00:02:38.49] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. I hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving. I hope you enjoyed the company of family friends, time for yourself as well. Lots of lots of good thanksgiving holiday wishes, I hope you enjoyed very much and I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of epidermal Asus below psA if you gave me the blistering news that you missed this week’s show. Thought leadership, Peter Pan a pinto and Antoinette car co authored the book modern media relations for nonprofits. They share their insights on how to build relationships with journalists so you get heard as the thought leader you are plus other media strategies like crisis communications. This was part of our coverage of the 2020 non profit technology conference and content strategy. Now that you’re an established thought leader, you need to produce multi channel content that’s relevant, also engaging actionable user friendly and S. E. O friendly. Also from 20 N. T. C. Valerie johnson from pathways to housing P A. And Katie Green with the Trevor project. Show you how Antonis take two. I’m still wishing you well. We are sponsored by Turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O here is thought leadership with me now are Peter pan a pinto and Antoinette car. Peter is philanthropic practice leader at turn two communications, Antoinette is part of the leadership team of women advance and ceo of bold and bright media. They are the co authors of the book Modern media relations for nonprofits. Peter Antoinette welcome. Yes. I’m glad we could work this out among the three of us. Thank you. And uh, it’s good to know that you reach well and safe in your respective locations. Okay.

[00:02:39.44] spk_1:
Thank you. Yes.

[00:02:51.33] spk_0:
Okay. I, yes, I see. No one within six ft of you. That’s good. Even though you are home, we’re talking about thought leadership and media. Let’s, uh, let’s start with you Internet. We can, we can use our leverage thought leadership and use the media to, uh, to influence those who are engaged with us, our constituents and even influence policy.

[00:04:02.66] spk_2:
So the media needs experts and non profits are on the ground there doing the work and they are the perfect folks to be experts in this conversation um, in particular and emergency Peter non talks about earlier about crisis communications and in a lot of situations the media scrambling looking for experts. If you have established yourself as a thought leader, which is what you should aspire to do. I know that turn to does the work in helping people to kind of establish themselves with the thought leader in this conversation. But right now we need people with good information and who can provide great stories for example and nonprofits can do that and they can do that work. And that’s why the thought leadership conversations important. Most nonprofits don’t see themselves needing to do that. It’s not the first thing we think about, we think about fundraising, right? Um, but not necessarily media friend raising. And so now is the time that you want to have those relationships and be considered as a thought leader.

[00:04:18.59] spk_0:
Because when there’s news that relates to your mission, um, your call is more likely to be taken, your email is more likely be answered. If there’s that pre existing relationship you mentioned. But if if everybody in the sector is calling all the, all the media blindly, then it’s just sort of a crapshoot whether they answer you or not or

[00:05:38.32] spk_2:
if you think about the media needing like, you know, going to a crisis example, like the media needing a source or an expert And they don’t want to quote the same person that’s, you know, something that I’ve learned from my media background and training. I’ve been working as a journalist since 1995. And you know, one thing that my editors say, you know, don’t quote the same person, don’t quote the same organization. So in a crisis people will call big box non profit sometimes. Um, and they’ll just see them as being the experts for a conversation. And that’s why establishing yourself as a thought leader is so important. So someone can say, you know, I’m a unique voice about this. We have an example in our book modern media relations where um, someone who an organization that worked with Children and families involved in domestic violence became very important in the conversation when a professional athlete in in Georgia was convicted of family violence and all of a sudden that person was called upon to be on radio shows and talk shows and they became a thought leader. But they done the work to position themselves as an expert. And so I know Peter you, I know you have some examples as well, but we just kind of dived in there and and didn’t talk about the whole broad concept about leadership.

[00:06:04.05] spk_0:
Well, all right, well, um peter, I was gonna ask you, how do we start to build these relationships? Um you wanna do you want to back up what thought leadership is?

[00:08:02.93] spk_1:
Sure, I’ll start with thought leadership defined and that and that’s really um the process of establishing one’s expertise in a in a specific area and and and doing it in a way where they are recognized beyond their own organization, in their own kind of immediate networks, as a, as an expert as a thought leader. Somebody who is driving the conversation and really really helping people better understand a key issue or a topic. So for a nonprofit or a foundation, a thought leader might be your ceo um who or executive director, somebody who um is at the front lines uh and and kind of is in a in a position where they um not only have expertise but they have some authority and being able to talk with some gravitas about a topic, um but um in order to kind of establish your credentials there um and get recognized, you have to do some legwork beyond just having that expertise. You have to be um you have to be comfortable talking about that topic. You have to um you have to spend some time kind of building the relationships and the and the and the the larger credibility that you are, somebody who has something interesting to say and the expertise to back it up. Um and the more you do that, and you can do that not just through the media, but through your own channels and through speaking at conferences and and all kinds of other things. Um the more you do that, the more you kind of become uh somebody who is recognized and is called upon to weigh in on important topics or or when news events call for it or in a situation like what, where we are now with with the covid 19 response, Somebody who can kind of come in and bring a voice of reason and perspective to what’s going on around us.

[00:08:31.98] spk_0:
So you have to lay the groundwork there, there has to be some fundamentals and you have to have your gravitas and you you need to appear bona fide and be bona fide not just appear, you have to be bona fide on the topic that you’re that you’re an expert in the mission of, of your, your nonprofit. How do you then start to when you have that groundwork? How do you then start to build relationships when there isn’t really a need for you to be talking about the subject?

[00:09:39.59] spk_1:
Sure, there are a lot of ways to do that one is that you, um, you start to build some personal relationships with media who are covering these topics. And you can do that either through, you know, somebody on your communications team that helps you, or you can kind of do it yourself, but you can, you can start to show up in, in their coverage of stories by, um, by um, positioning yourself and, and building relationships with individual reporters. Maybe even when they don’t need you by having an informational coffee or call so that they can get to know you and know what you stand for. Um, you can do it by your through your own writing and, and public speaking and making those things available and accessible to the media. Um, and you can, you can do it through your own channels to a lot of nonprofits have blogs, they have, uh, they have their own podcasts. They have different ways where they’re positioning their internal experts externally so that they’re kind of talking about and establishing their credentials around around a subject. And

[00:09:41.01] spk_0:
that’s your, that’s your owned media, right. That’s your own media versus earned media?

[00:10:12.00] spk_1:
Yes. Yes. And, and the value of that, is that the more you’re, you’re kind of demonstrating through your own media channels, your expertise, you’re not only building um some greater relationships and and credibility with your donors and the folks who are already kind of in your network, but you start to show up when people are doing searches or when people are on social media and seeing stories and articles that are passed around, if they may see something you’ve written or talked about, shared in another network, and it it sparks a light for them that you’re somebody worth going back to when they need, um when they need some, you know, somebody like you to weigh in on something.

[00:10:52.96] spk_0:
Okay, peter, I know you and Antoinette are both former journalists. Uh, so I’m gonna jump over to Antoinette for what Antoinette, what what what do these outreach, I guess, calls and emails to journalists to try to build the relationship. Uh what what do they what do they look like? What would you suggest people are saying to, to try to get the attention um to build the relationship, not, not when I’m looking to be quoted because there’s a breaking news, but to build the relationship.

[00:12:33.00] spk_2:
So, full disclosure. I’m a current journalist. Um so, yes, so I I still work for publications right now. Um and so people contact me on twitter and social media, which is a new thing. We talk about press releases. I’m a big fan of press releases, um yes, just full disclosure about that. But I still like for people to pitch me on social media, direct messages through twitter. If I’m using my company profile, it’s safe for nonprofits to contact me and say, hey, I have a story. I noticed that you’re interested in this concept, it’s always great when people know what I’m interested in. Like when they’re like, I noticed that you publish a lot of stories like right now I’m working on a story, a series of stories about missing and murdered indigenous women. And so when people see, oh, I notice you’re publishing stories about this and they pitch me on a direct message or um through facebook messenger even and say, hey, would you consider this the story and here’s the angle. Um or have you thought about, you know, I’ve had other people reach out and say I noticed you’re publishing these types of stories about, you know, missing and murdered indigenous women. Have you considered other stories about violence against women and it’s always a really great connection for me. So I think just kind of knowing what the journalist is interested in is really important, kind of, understanding their angle. Sorry, y’all, um understanding their angle and just flowing from there and saying, you know, here’s how we fit into this conversation is always a wonderful

[00:12:46.00] spk_0:
um so outreach by any of the social channels is fine too, you talk about twitter and direct message facebook, those are all

[00:12:56.47] spk_2:
yes and people tagging me like I feel like if a journalist is using their profile in a way that is professional then you’re safe to contact them and them in that way.

[00:13:11.60] spk_0:
Okay. Yeah, yeah peter anything you want to add to? Yeah, I think

[00:14:13.09] spk_1:
that I think is dead on about making sure though that when you do that, you are, you are, you’re you’re not coming with something that’s off the reporters beat or off of um what’s what, what you know, is um what they cover uh or the type of story they cover within that beat. Um you could spend a lot of effort reaching out to every journalist you see on twitter about your specific cause, but if they don’t cover your cause um you know, it doesn’t relate to what they what they do, then they’re probably either going to ignore you or or start to block you because you’re, you’re, you’re kind of almost spamming them. So um it’s it’s important to be targeted with who you reach out to as well and and make sure that you understand that journalists and their work before you before you do your outreach and come at them with a pitch that they don’t necessarily want. So yes, I think it’s really important to to do a bit of that homework up front um and respect that journalist time and if you do that and if you come at them with something that is actually on, on their beat and is of interest to them. Um, then I think you have a much greater chance of getting their attention and getting them to want to follow up with you and and help further, um, the relationship beyond that initial pitch

[00:14:32.47] spk_0:

[00:15:31.85] spk_2:
Tony, can I share a pet peeve like to Pet peeves actually is, um, if I write about a non profit and they don’t share the story on their own social, it’s just, it’s heartbreaking for me. Um, a lot of times I have to fight for these stories to appear and I have to fight with an editor to say, this is why this is newsworthy. This needs to be here. And then the nonprofit really doesn’t share the story. And I think, well, you know, I don’t write for my own, you know, just for it not to be shared. Um, and then the other thing is I love when nonprofits support stories that aren’t related to their particular story. So I’ll start noticing like one thing, um, Kentucky non profit Network, for example, before they ever shared or were involved in anything that I was involved in, they started sharing things or liking things that I would publish as a reporter and I didn’t know anything about them, but I thought that was interesting. So that when they pitch something, then you’re more likely to notice it as a, as a reporter, you’re more likely to notice because you feel like they’re really genuinely interested in the conversation, even if it doesn’t apply to them, you’re still interested

[00:15:51.29] spk_0:
Internet. Where are you writing now?

[00:15:58.07] spk_2:
I am writing, working on a piece for Guardian. I am for the Guardian. I am writing for Women Advance, which we have our own network. And then I write for Halifax Media group publications. So I’m on the regional circuit, doing all the fun things.

[00:16:13.38] spk_0:
Halifax is nova Scotia.

[00:16:22.99] spk_2:
No, Halifax is a media group in the United States. They own a series of their own regional newspapers across the country. So

[00:16:28.59] spk_0:
let’s talk a little about crisis management. You wanna, can you get us started with how you might approach crisis communications Antoinette.

[00:16:38.11] spk_2:
I thought that was Peter’s question. I’m just kidding.

[00:16:40.29] spk_0:

[00:16:41.31] spk_2:
I’m just kidding. Um, crisis communications, I think actually Peter is a really great person to talk about this. My crisis communications conversation really has shifted with what we’re going through. So I don’t want to make it so unique to our current situation. Um, so I’ll let Peter start and then Peter, I can back you up on it if that’s

[00:18:50.46] spk_1:
okay. Yeah. So, um, with crisis communications, it’s really important to not wait until the actual you’re actually in a crisis to put your plan together. It’s really important to, to have a protocol that you’ve set up when you’re not in the middle of a crisis of possible to really kind of put together uh some protocols for not only what you’re going to say, but who’s going to say it and how you’re going to communicate during that situation. So um what does that protocol look like one? Is that you um upfront, you designate who your spokesperson or spokespeople are going to be ahead of time um and you spend some time ahead of that coaching them up in terms of what some of the key messages for your organization are, regardless of what the crisis might be. Some things that you would broadly want to try to reinforce and kind of a mood and a tone that you’re gonna want to take with what you’re talking about. Um do that 1st 2nd, is that you would really want to have a system in place for how you activate that for how you activate your crisis plan and your crisis communications. So that essentially means that you want to um you want to make sure that you know, kind of who who needs to sign off on what you’re going to talk about, who you’re gonna be involving in your decisions on whether you need to put out a statement um who how you’re going to communicate in what different channels, the more you can make those decisions ahead of time and have your structure in place, the better equipped you are to actually respond during a crisis situation and be able to get a quick and accurate and positive message out um in in in a situation and often crises are not their crisis because they’re not expected, but you can be planning ahead so that you you are able to react quickly and authoritatively during that situation. Um

[00:19:07.87] spk_0:
you’re you’re compounding the crisis if you’re not prepared.

[00:19:12.53] spk_1:

[00:19:13.33] spk_0:
You’re scrambling to figure out who’s in charge, who has to approve messages, where should messages go? All, all which are peripheral to the to the substance of the problem.

[00:20:12.02] spk_1:
Absolutely. And in today’s world, where crisis can really mushroom not only in the media, but on social media, the longer you’re allowing time to pass before you’re getting out there with with your statement and your response to it, the worst the worst the situation gets for you. So you really need to position yourselves uh to be able to respond quickly to respond clearly and to respond accurately. Um and and it’s important to note that, you know, that planning ahead of time is really critical, but what you say in the situation is also critical to um you do want to make sure that you communicate truthfully. That doesn’t necessarily mean that um uh you uh u um reveal

[00:20:14.17] spk_0:

[00:20:14.72] spk_1:
reveal everything

[00:20:15.67] spk_0:

[00:20:18.45] spk_1:
do uh that you do reveal is accurate. It’s not gonna come back to bite you later. It’s not going to mislead people

[00:20:31.86] spk_0:
talking about complicating the complicating the crisis if you’re lying or misleading, it comes back. I mean, people investigate things get found out.

[00:20:36.17] spk_1:
Absolutely. And I, and I, and I was

[00:20:38.82] spk_0:
technically expanded your problem.

[00:21:42.71] spk_1:
Absolutely. And and you’d be surprised how, how many times when I was a journalist that people, if they had just come clean and and kind of got the truth out there right away, they may have taken a short term hit, but their lives would have got on fine after that. But the more you try to obfuscate or or lie about the situation, or or try to to spin it in a way where you’re, you’re kind of hiding the truth that the worse your situation is going to get. So be be in a position to be as transparent and clear and accurate as possible. Um, with that first statement, uh, knowing that in some cases you might have to say, you know, we don’t know. Um, but we’ll follow up when we do know, because sometimes a crisis situation is one in which speaking of, of when we’re in now, we don’t know all of the, all of the different twists and turns the covid 19 situation is going to take. Um, so, but but rather than trying to speculate, um or or or in some cases, as we’ve seen, some, some public figures do try to spin this one way or another, rather than just saying, here’s the situation here are concerns, Here’s what we know, here’s what we don’t know. Um, it compounds the situation and in some cases it can be dangerous to

[00:22:01.82] spk_0:
people internet, You wanna, you wanna back up a little bit? I

[00:22:38.74] spk_2:
Did. So the, I think the statement, um, I love how people are putting forward these COVID-19 statements and I think we need to have more statements like that. I mean these statements are demanding and people feel like that. But I’m like we could do more of that. We could have statements as nonprofits on issues on public issues, public concerns, things that are um, emerging and urgent for people. I think about in the eastern part of north Carolina because tony I know you’re in, in my home state. I am

[00:22:40.58] spk_0:
in eastern north Carolina.

[00:23:26.54] spk_2:
Happy to have you here. And when we have um, hurricanes, when we have issues like that, if non profits would put out statements like they have with Covid 19 if they felt like they needed to say here’s where we are, here’s what we do here. Here’s, here’s what we have to offer before during after and just update them. You know, I feel like this crisis has brought forward a level of communication and and help people to see the necessary level of communication that we need to have. But we don’t have that all the time is non profits and people are looking for that. So I feel like in the eastern part of north Carolina where we had, um, you know, 100 year, hurricanes within three months of each other that we didn’t think would happen. You know what if people, what if people make covid statements like that? I mean, what if people and so I’m just gonna start calling the covid statements peter that I don’t have a better term for. But what if we felt like we needed to make these types of statements when there’s an emergency,

[00:23:51.92] spk_0:
um, Antoinette, I’m gonna ask you to wrap up with something that you said, which is contrary to a lot of what I hear. Uh, you said that you’re a big fan of press releases.

[00:24:02.00] spk_2:

[00:24:03.26] spk_0:
you take us out with your rationale for why? You’re a big fan of them. I’ve heard that they’re pretty much obsolete

[00:24:10.20] spk_2:
from a journalist. I

[00:24:12.51] spk_0:
don’t know from a commentator. I

[00:24:14.37] spk_2:
don’t want to write that.

[00:24:17.47] spk_0:

[00:24:27.93] spk_2:
believe that. I believe that. Um, so yes, because I’ve been reading press releases for a long time and I feel like the who, what, when, where and how gets me past that part of it, then I can ask you all the interesting questions. So if you can give me that in a way that I can cut and paste and I will not butcher someone’s name, like tony

[00:24:43.54] spk_0:

[00:24:55.22] spk_2:
might be, it might be a challenge. So I can, we can get all of that out of the way. But a good press release gets me excited as a journalist. It brings me into the conversation and if you aren’t excited about your press release. I can probably tell on the other end. So I had a good press release. All

[00:25:15.51] spk_0:
right, thank you. We’re gonna leave it there. That’s contrary advice. Which which I love hearing. All right. That’s uh that’s Antoinette car part of the leadership team of women advance and ceo of bold and bright media and also Peter Pan a pinto, philanthropic practice leader at turn two communications and they are co authors of the book modern media relations for nonprofits, Antoinette Peter, thank you very much for sharing. Thanks so much. Thanks for

[00:25:28.62] spk_1:
having us. tony

[00:27:19.59] spk_0:
pleasure. Stay safe. And thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 N. T. C. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Well, as you heard lots of ideas about the relationships, the relationships that will help you be the thought leader that you want to be. That you ought to be relationships leading to thought leadership. Turn to communications. They’ll help you do it. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. It’s time for Tony’s take two. I am still thinking about you and wishing you well. I hope you had recovery time over Thanksgiving. If you’re in giving Tuesday, I hope you’ll be happy with your results or you are happy depending when you listened. If you are, if you did congratulations, celebrate what you achieved. Take that victory lap you deserve it. If you’re not so happy, keep your head up, you know that you did the best that you could, don’t let it drag you down. You have other successes that are gonna be coming and you’ll be celebrating those. So don’t let a disappointment drag you down going forward. You have all my good wishes for your year end fundraising this week and continuing That is Tony’s take two here is content strategy, which by the way, we have boo koo, but loads of time left for Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 N T C. That’s the 2020 nonprofit technology conference. My guests now are Katie Green and Valerie johnson, Katie is Digital Giving Manager for the Trevor Project. And Valerie johnson is director of institutional advancement at pathways to housing P A Katie and Valerie welcome.

[00:27:44.11] spk_3:

[00:28:07.84] spk_0:
a pleasure. Good to good to talk to both of you and glad to know that you’re each safe and and well in in Brooklyn and uh, suburban philadelphia. Glad you’re with us. Your NtC workshop was content strategy for donor engagement From tactics to testing, let’s start with you, Katie, what what do you feel was the need for the session. What are nonprofits not getting doing so well, they could be doing a lot better.

[00:28:57.87] spk_3:
Yeah. So we have this session this morning at the same time as we originally had planned, which is great. We were able to give it virtually. And I think what a lot of donor content strategy is missing is simply structure. I think a lot of people don’t know where to start and they’re intimidated by it and we Valerie and I provide it’s some real life examples on how you can achieve a donor content strategy that does get you closer to your revenue goals. However, the tone of the presentation changed a little bit given how the world has come to be our new reality. So we did talk a little bit about the crisis and what it means for fundraising and what it means for content strategy under a tight timeline, knowing that things are changing at a really rapid pace. So really just structure and storytelling are the things that we talked about in this morning’s presentation, which will be available for viewing later, we’re gonna have a recording available for those who weren’t able to make it. But yeah, that’s what we focus on.

[00:29:27.47] spk_0:
Let’s start with part of the a good strategy is using personas, user personas. Can you kick us off with that Valerie? How do you, how do you start to identify what persona looks like and what’s their value?

[00:29:54.36] spk_4:
Absolutely. So, a persona is really like a profile or a character sketch of someone that you need to connect with um and understanding their motivations and goals. So it’s a way of segmenting your audience. And rather than sending all of your messaging out into the ether, trying to tailor that messaging to a specific demographic or a specific group of people. So for pathways to housing P. A. We’re actually still developing what our personas look like. We have an idea of what it looks like, but we want to dig some more into the research and analytic side of things to see who exactly is supporting us right now and what um ties they have in common to help us build those profiles. I think Katie might be a little bit further ahead of us in developing this persona. So I’m gonna toss it over to her.

[00:31:18.60] spk_3:
Yeah. So uh user personas are something I’ve been doing throughout my career. I worked in an agency before I came to the Trevor project. So I was able to get a lot of industry knowledge on how we create user personas and user journeys. But what we did, when we started looking at our end of year campaign for last year at the Trevor project, we made sure we carved out some time to conduct a little bit of an audit of what our donors were looking like, Where were they coming from? What could we track? What could we track? We found out we had a lot more questions than we did answers. So in order to get user personas, something that’s really important is tracking and understanding where people are coming from and where their first and last last clicks are. So because of our ability to use google analytics and source code tracking protocol. We did get a lot of tracking during end of year that will improve what our users like going into future campaigns. But now we’re gonna be able to better tell what is actually inspiring people to give. What is the moment where they’re actually clicking that donate button. What is the first thing they’re seeing that starting their relationship with the trouble project? So that’s what we’ve been doing.

[00:31:45.74] spk_0:
What are the pieces of a persona? How granular do you get? What is it where they live to what they read or what what you give us some like depth of this thing.

[00:33:34.60] spk_3:
Absolutely. So the main important piece of a persona is to know what their needs are. So you can have a persona that’s as general as this is a donor. They need to know how to give that’s a persona. But what you’d like to do is get a little bit deeper in being able to tell what the values of that persona are. What’s what’s the name? What’s the age? What’s the key characteristics? What are the opportunities really? You know, I like to create fake names and really go into it. You stock imagery so that you can try to connect with who this person might be? You’re really giving a face to a name and a value to a person and you want to look at what donors are looking like. So for example, for the Trevor project, we have a lot of one time, first time donors and we have a lot of people who come in, they give their first gift and I’m trying to find where they’re dropping off. Right. What is causing that? So I maybe create a persona that is a one time user that’s not really convinced they want to give again a one time donor. Um, they may be young. They may be, um, like within our demographic, which is under 25 of the youth that we serve with our crisis services and suicide prevention services. Um, so you can get as granular as making and they, and an age and the demographic and the location and what devices they’re using. I think that’s a big one. Is this person usually on their mobile? Are they usually on desktop? What channels do they typically like to look at twitter? You can get as granular email. Are they just looking at your website? So you know, it should get as detailed as you can, but I would encourage people to get really creative with it. If the more details you’re able to get is just a, just a more clear picture of a donor that you’re looking to target. Just make sure it’s someone you actually want to target and not someone you’re gonna be, uh, that wouldn’t actually be coming to you? Like maybe Bill Gates isn’t going to be coming to, uh, a nonprofit website to donate. Um, but you can look at what those specific donors might look like that are more realistic for your campaign.

[00:33:56.12] spk_0:
Okay. Right. You’re, you’re basically on what’s realistic, not what your aspiration is.

[00:34:22.36] spk_3:
Yeah. To a degree, I mean, I think you can be aspirational aspirational in some facets of what you’re doing. I think it has to be somewhat grounded in in, you know, a realistic approach. We do get asked. I get aspirational myself when I’m creating donor personas. When you know, I am looking for major gifts, I am looking for people who are willing to process of 15,000 dollar credit card charge. And there are people out there that that do that. So when I do my donor personas, they may not be the number one target of my campaign, but I do want to consider what those people are interested in as well so that I can personalize content for them to the best of my ability.

[00:34:53.03] spk_4:
Yeah. The other thing to keep in mind is diversifying your donor base. So in looking at who’s giving two pathways to housing right now, they’re mostly middle aged, college educated white women who prefer facebook and giving on a desktop, um, which is fine. And that’s definitely one category of people that you would want to be supporting you. But philadelphia is an incredibly diverse city. So if those are the only people that were getting to with our messaging, then we really need to think about diversifying our strategies to build new donor profiles for people who don’t all look the

[00:35:36.72] spk_0:
same? Okay. And then once you have a bunch of personas and profile? I mean, it sounds like you could have 10 or 12 really different ones, different, um yeah, different characteristics of people, different types of people that come to you. And, and like you said, Katie, even people who leave, you know, you want to capture them back. So, so once you have these Valerie, then you’re trying to communicate to them. But how do you how do you turn your communications into targets to to these personas?

[00:35:46.68] spk_4:
So you really want to think about building content specifically for that persona? So you might be doing a campaign um that you want to hit a couple of different

[00:35:56.37] spk_3:

[00:36:07.97] spk_4:
with, but you’re gonna tailor that campaign specifically to each persona and deliver the message to a specific segment of that campaign. So if you’re gonna do a mail campaign, um, you want to think about how you’re putting together that letter and what you’re writing into the letter and how you’re addressing the donors for each of the different segments for each of the different personas that you’ve put together to really help craft a message and to inspire them specifically to donate.

[00:36:32.48] spk_0:
Okay, right, like Katie, like you were saying, you know, yeah, you know what’s important to them. Um, but that stuff is, this is very uh amorphous to try to, you know, it’s not just what do they give and how much do they give? And what time of year do they give, You know, what’s important to them? What do they value? This? Is this is difficult stuff to suss out.

[00:37:10.42] spk_4:
Yeah. One thing our co presenter said this morning, Marcus was that donors are smart and they’re savvy and with the advent of the internet and all of the various channels that you can communicate with people now, they know what they want and they know what they want to hear from you. And if they’re not hearing from you what they want, they’re gonna go find someone else who’s going to provide that information and communicate to them the way they want to be communicated with. So fundraising and marketing for nonprofits right now looks very different than it did maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago, um, and, and donors know what they want now.

[00:37:24.54] spk_0:
Okay, so it’s worth, you’re trying to suss out all this amorphous information as as best you can. Okay. Um, Katie, is there anything more you want to say about personas before we move on to being multi channel?

[00:37:36.13] spk_3:
Let’s go on to multi channel.

[00:37:40.11] spk_0:
Alright, Alright. Anything I don’t want to leave anything important.

[00:37:44.66] spk_3:
Okay. I think we’ve covered the main point.

[00:37:47.19] spk_0:
Okay. What’s, what’s, what’s important about? Well, I think we all know why to be multi channel, but how to coordinate those messages? What what’s your, what’s your thinking there?

[00:39:21.81] spk_3:
Yeah, I can jump in here. So I think what people often don’t do is they don’t coordinate messages cross channel at the right time. That’s what I’ve been seeing a lot with just by industry research. I mean, I’m always looking at what everybody is doing in the space because I want to be part of the best. Uh but they say being what I’ve heard at multiple conferences is that there’s a rule of seven. Right. So as a non donor, let’s say, I’m scrolling through facebook, I need to see an ask seven times before I’m actually likely to give. So if you’re seeing that ask seven times on facebook, that means it’s seven posts. That’s kind of a lot. And that’s gonna have to be spaced out through a certain amount of days, weeks, months even. So if you’re just increasing all the channels that you’re presenting that message on. So let’s say I’m seeing it on facebook, I’m seeing it in my email. I’m seeing it on my instagram. I’m getting a paid ad for it because I liked it on facebook. That’s gonna shorten the window of which I see seven points of that call to action. So I’m gonna be more likely to give if I’m seeing it in a wider spectrum on the digital space than I am in just one channel. So making sure that you’re saying similar things, but that are custom to what the channel is providing, Like social media has like paid ads have a certain amount of characters you can use. So, um, making sure it’s optimized for what channel you’re using, but still with the common thread is really important for increasing your conversion rate.

[00:40:05.59] spk_0:
Okay, now it’s a little clear to me why I see so many ads for the uh, pickpocket proof slacks. I see them across all kinds of different channels. I’m not, I’m hardly on facebook anymore. But um, I, I see them when I go to websites and I’m reading articles and because one time, I don’t know, I, I swear it was like three years ago I was browsing through these like CIA approved slacks with 14 pockets and it’s all supposed to be pickpocket proof for something and you know, they $200 slacks or whatever, they’re, you know, but

[00:40:08.62] spk_3:

[00:40:09.74] spk_0:
seen ever since. Yeah. And I don’t know. I’m not even sure that if I bought them, the ads would stop, maybe

[00:40:16.43] spk_4:

[00:40:17.57] spk_0:
sophisticated enough. No, it’s not right. That would be right. Because now your brother needs to pay or whatever. All right,

[00:40:23.00] spk_3:

[00:40:24.15] spk_0:
anything you wanna, you wanna explain about multi channel and how, how important it is to reinforce and be consistent.

[00:41:16.62] spk_4:
I think the biggest thing for me is if you’re starting from scratch and you’re really trying to develop content and put it in the right places. Um, you really want to be thinking about who your audience is on those channels. So for, linkedin, the messaging that you’re putting out is gonna look a lot different than what you’re putting out on facebook. Most people use facebook recreationally and they use linkedin for professional relationships. So the type of information that someone is seeking on linkedin or more likely to respond to on linkedin is a lot different than what they’re more likely to look for or respond to on facebook. Um so for us, we make sure all of our job listings go up on linkedin and all of our industry specific information that goes up on linkedin, um just to kind of show our expertise in the area. But when we’re posting to facebook, we’re talking more directly to people that we know are supporters of us and want to do tangible things to support us. So the messaging is different, even though the information is really the same.

[00:41:31.44] spk_0:
Okay, okay, again, you’re consistent but consistent, but but different. Maybe different format even. Um Okay.

[00:41:39.99] spk_4:

[00:41:52.00] spk_0:
Um I mean, there’s there’s other format, you know, content papers, white papers. Um Again, depending for the right, you know, for the right channel research, um, do either of you use um, media, uh, working in working through thought leadership in developing thought leadership in media media relationships either of

[00:42:30.91] spk_4:
you. Yeah, so there’s a local media outlet here in philadelphia called generosity and they are focused on nonprofits and social enterprises and people who are making positive impact in philadelphia. So they’re super open to having folks guest post um, or write op EDS for them. So we’ve utilized that outlet a couple of times. Um, actually just last week, um, our ceo over wrote an article about the opportunity for kindness in the era of coronavirus. So it’s something that she actually wrote to communicate to our staff members and let them know what our stance on, you know, moving forward was going to be. And we thought it was something that would be beneficial, not just to our staff but to be at large. So we passed it along to them. They posted it as an op ed and that gave us um, a little bit more bang for our buck for things that we had already

[00:42:58.94] spk_0:
written. Um, Katie, are you doing much with earned media?

[00:43:03.08] spk_3:
I am not the Trevor project is, but Katie Green is not doing that. Okay, handled that.

[00:43:10.85] spk_0:
Okay. Um, let’s talk about some, some analytics. I mean, how do we know whether we’re being successful? Uh, and where we need to, where we need to tweak or pivot Katie, can you, can you get us started?

[00:44:29.28] spk_3:
Absolutely. So analytics is very hard for a lot of nonprofits because it’s such a scientific based skill set. And you know, that’s something that when I first came onto the Trevor project, is that the first thing I implemented was our source coding protocol. It’s so important to know where people are coming from that you can actually optimize, but we a B tested and continue to A B test absolutely everything. We do it through our website, we do it through email, we do it through our paid social and to see how things work. I think really we just test absolutely everything things you think you know you don’t and that’s what I keep learning through testing is what you think works today, won’t work tomorrow and we retest everything. A time of day test for example isn’t gonna for ascend for email, isn’t gonna be the same after daylight savings. It’s not gonna be the same as the seasons change and particularly not the same now that everybody is stuck at home. So you know they’re testing and optimizing really what you know is working. It just requires retesting re optimizing and testing literally.

[00:44:35.20] spk_0:
Could you, could you give some more examples besides time of day, what are examples of things you test?

[00:45:24.47] spk_3:
Oh absolutely. So on our website we tested, we have a little um call out box with questions on our donate form. We tested the placement of that. Is it better to have it right up next to the form underneath directly on top. So the first thing people see um we test there, we test what photos we use a lot does a photo of somebody looking sad versus somebody looking more celebratory and happy. Um we test a lot of pride imagery because we serve LGBTQ youth. We wanna see if Pride imagery actually helps get our word out there. Um We test our colors a lot because our our brand color is orange which is can be very cautionary but we see you thing oh it’s your brand color. Of course everybody’s gonna always respond to it. But that’s not really the case. Like sometimes things like our blues and purples and greens when it comes to see ta buttons. Um Gosh, I mean I can tell you every test we’ve ever run. Thunder tests um using graphics versus photos on the website. Uh you know the size, the width, the height of our light boxes, the width of our donation forms the amount of buttons we have. It just the list goes on and

[00:45:51.24] spk_0:

[00:45:53.35] spk_3:

[00:46:13.51] spk_0:
heard one that just made me think of just one small example of what riffing off what you just said was testing the text inside a button instead of just donate or like uh review or something. You know, be more be more explicit about what the what the action is you’re asking for instead of just a single word. A little little more descriptive. Yeah

[00:46:32.93] spk_3:
testing C. T. A. Is is something that we do a lot just to give people some ideas. I think one that can be really helpful when it comes to fundraising is seeing how your donors react to the word give and the word support and the word donate. So so it’s all the same thing. We’re asking you to support our mission to give to us and to donate. But those three words have very different feelings when you’re reading them on your screen. So that’s one of the biggest tests we ran. Um, but yeah, I wouldn’t recommend always testing the C. T. A. When you have a new one especially,

[00:47:09.95] spk_0:
was it, was it act blue that or or change dot org? I think maybe it’s change dot org started calling it chip in. Could you chip in? Okay. Okay. Um, um, so Valerie, can you talk us through some metrics? You’re the director of institutional advancement? What what numbers do you look for to decide how you’re doing?

[00:48:23.15] spk_4:
Uh, we look at a lot of things. So we’re looking at the click through rates on our emails and on our post actually reading to the bottom and clicking the links that we’re providing. Um, we’re looking at how many people are interacting with things that were posting on social media and whether they are enjoying it or not based on how many people are interacting with it. Um, we do a lot of surveys to do, so, talking to our donors directly and asking them what kinds of things they want to see what kinds of things they don’t want to see. Um, I know Katie is doing a lot more with metrics than we are. So, um, this is my friendly reminder to smaller nonprofits where there’s just one person trying to do all of this. you don’t have to recreate the wheel. Um, so you can look at an organization like the Trevor project that does have the staff who can look at all of these things and do all of these testing and all of the metrics and see what’s working best and they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So you can look at what they’re doing and then borrow it. Um, so for an organization like me that has a smaller staff, um, we’re doing a little bit on our own, but we’re also looking a lot at what other nonprofits are doing and assuming that they’re taking the time to test things and we’re kind of, you know, copying what they’re doing because it’s obviously successful for them.

[00:48:36.00] spk_0:
How do you learn from them? Do you just create a build a relationship and then ask what, what kind of metrics do you look at

[00:48:54.20] spk_4:
sometimes? And sometimes it’s as simple as going to the Trevor project, websites donate page and seeing where they place things and what they name their buttons and what giving levels they’re putting up there. Um, because you know, you’re never gonna be exactly the same as another organization. So you definitely want to take a look at who you’re using as an example and use someone who’s doing similar work or in a similar location to you. But at the end of the day, there’s only so much you can learn through testing and after that you’re just gonna have to dive in and do something. So if you don’t have time for the testing, you can do a quick search of what everybody in your industry is doing and kind of take it from there instead,

[00:49:20.34] spk_0:
Katie, uh, since everybody’s stealing from the Trevor project, what, uh, what I assume you knew Valerie was doing this.

[00:49:28.27] spk_3:
I didn’t, but it’s, it’s such a compliment.

[00:49:31.09] spk_0:

[00:49:32.63] spk_4:
because you do a great job. That’s why we’re looking at

[00:49:35.06] spk_3:
you. Oh gosh,

[00:49:36.48] spk_0:
what do you want to add about metrics?

[00:49:59.95] spk_3:
Um, I think I just wanna reiterate Valerie’s point that there are so many nonprofits where one person is doing this. Um I’m the only person on the digital giving team. I’m the first person they’ve ever hired to do Digital giving. Um I’m still a team member of one, but you know, I do have the support of a very large marketing team that helps me with creating all of the tests that we do and anyone can tweet me email me whatever if like any nonprofit ever wants to connect. I’m always an open resource. But uh, metrics are increasingly uh important, just critical to donors, content strategy. So

[00:50:21.55] spk_0:
since you’re offering yourself as a resource, do you want to share your email and or your twitter, you don’t have to give your email if you don’t want to.

[00:50:28.72] spk_3:
Yeah, maybe twitter is probably the best way to reach me because I’m trying, I’m trying to learn how to tweet more as a digital person. I feel like I need to, that it’s at Katie Sue Green like one word, so it’s K A T I E S U E G R E N K T. Still green green, just like the color. Okay,

[00:50:51.53] spk_0:
Okay, thank you. Um it’s a Valerie, you wanna uh wanna wrap us up some some parting thoughts about uh content strategy.

[00:51:18.42] spk_4:
Sure. Um since I am kind of representing the smaller organization here, I just want to remind everybody that you’re doing everything that you can and it’s everything that you’re doing is important. So don’t try to do everything at once, really pick one thing to focus on and get to a point where you’re doing that well and comfortably before you try to add more um listening to a podcast like this or going to a presentation, like the one that we did this morning is overwhelming in the number of things that you could be doing and it makes you feel like you’re not doing enough, but you are. And just tackling those small hills one at a time is much much easier than trying to climb the mountain.

[00:52:42.29] spk_0:
That’s very gracious, very gracious advice. Thank you. Thanks very much. Um that was Valerie johnson, that is Valerie johnson director of institutional advancement at pathways to housing P A. And with her is Katie Green Digital Giving Manager for Trevor Project. Thank you very much for sharing each of you. Thanks so much And thank you for being with Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTCC in two weeks. Trafton Heckman with his book, Take Heart Take Action next week, I’m working on it. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by Turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows, social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein, Thank you for that. Affirmation Scotty B with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.
Interviewing Beth Kanter at Fundraising Day New York

Nonprofit Radio for July 12, 2013: Measuring The Networked Nonprofit & Goodbye Google Alerts?

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Interviewing Beth Kanter at Fundraising Day New York
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Beth Kanter, co-author of “The Networked Nonprofit” and “Measuring the Networked Nonprofit” talked to me at Fundraising Day last month about wide engagement and measuring your multichannel outcomes.




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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s our one hundred fiftieth show, our loki sesquicentennial one hundred fiftieth anniversary today, july twelfth, friday, two thousand thirteen oh, i hope that you were with me last week, i’d be put into pericarditis if it came to my attention that you had missed dan’s donor retention ideas. Dan blakemore is assistant director of development for individual giving at international house. We talked at fund-raising day last month about howto hold onto your donors from phone to facebook and tablet aps. Scott koegler was back he’s, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news he had info on tablet, apse for event management and fund-raising this week, measuring the networked non-profit beth cantor, co author of the network non-profit and measuring the network non-profit talked to me at fund-raising day last month about wide engagement and measuring your multi-channel outcomes and goodbye google alerts maria semple are prospect research contributor, and the prospect finder has free alternatives in case google alerts disappear. In fact, some of our ideas may even be better than google alerts. Between the guests on tony’s, take two, thank you very much for listening on the one hundred fiftieth show. Very grateful for your support right now, we have the interview with beth cantor measuring the networked non-profit welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen, we’re at the marriott marquis hotel in midtown new york see, right in times square, the conference is being taken down around us, so there isn’t. You may hear a noise of chairs and tables, and we’re still here where will be the last remnants of the last shards of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen with me is as i said, beth cantor she’s, master trainer, blogger, speaker and author, co author of the network non-profit and measuring the network non-profit cancer welcome to the show. Oh, thanks so much for having me. It’s. A pleasure. Well, yes. You still have a lot of energy into the day. Oh, yes, i always have latto energies. Okay, um, what about the online networks on dh engagement on the online? How do we have accomplish riel? True engagement was a ringing phone to oh, breaking you make you’re ringing phones as well. How do how do we engage online? Well, let’s, take that ringing phone as an example. Well, if you’re really engaging, you’re listening and you’re answering the phone and you’re having a conversation. So instead of just like blasting out your message or constantly saying e-giving ann, ask you know, you’re listening to the conversations that are happening on social networks around your issue, and you’re finding ways, teo, talk to people and and mention your cause and then teo cultivate them to them, become supporters and to become so excited and enthusiastic about you that they go out and they quit their friends. We still have lingering thoughts, though, and lingering practices don’t we about about being maura one way channel way have a facebook page, we’ve got to keep it busy with our content. Wei have a twitter stream we gotta keep it busy with our content. Yeah versus the listening. Yes, yes, and it’s a trainer. You know, it’s really interesting to encourage people to kind of shift their habit. And when i found out this is out of a practitioner level, is that it’s a real change of mindset for like creating your content, scheduling your kant tent and having it go out there? Yes. You need to have that structure. But then this social peace is this more organic time where you’re listening and you’re actually asking questions and you’re responding. And so i actually tell practitioners, schedule those into different blocks actually go in and talk because people have a resistance to like, well, this engagement stuff it’s, like open ended, and i’m not the time for this, and it makes me dizzy. Let’s have a look. Just schedule these twenty minute blocks. Well, you’re just checking in. I mean, that’s the way i do it. I mean, i have planned content. It’s not, you know, occasionally will promote my block post, but i’m always sharing links from other people, you know, that’s another way. I’m constantly scanning through my list and seeing what my different networks they’re talking about and and asking questions. I’m initiating conversations, so i think of it like a in a way, a cocktail party that’s not too big and saying hi, tony, how are you? As opposed to hi, tony. Want to buy my book? You said you mentioned scanning your lists. How do you do you go? About that is i mean, i’m not speaking english, i guess, but on twitter you got on the show have george in jail, a target having to put you in, george, i didn’t think of it, you know, when i do i do that it’s a trainer to i throw a ball at people, do you? Yeah, not a lot of softball, noah squish balls, fisher. Okay, so okay, so i’m it’s just on twitter. You can actually grew similar people. You know, i have one that’s, like thought leaders in the nonprofit world that i listen to you i have ceos of foundations i have, you know, d d geeks because that’s another topic of interest, and so i can actually look at all of their tweets together instead of the whole list. So if i could be very intentional about well, okay, daddy, geek stuff is on my list today for content it’s by week’s theme for content. So i’m going to be scanning has seen what kind of resource is are the data geek sharing that i want to highlight? And maybe i’m writing a post about something about that so i might ask them, you know, i’ve just come across this really interesting article in the new york times that talks about the myths of big data. What do you think about it? And then in on dh then they’ll tell me, and then i might then use that to create a block post. So so there is, you know, so sometimes i create a lot of content based on his conversations, okay? And breaking that down for listeners to the non-profit buy-in non-profits mean, they’re different list might be support our owners, volunteers, maybe board members, similar types of organizations, yes, champions people who influencers talk about the similar similarly working, similarly placed organizations, why should we be listening to the quote, the competition? Well, that was the whole topic of my first book in that organizations you have a couple of thoughts about, yeah, they need to think, like networks and networks are comprised of people and organisations and when we collaborate, there’s more abundance. So, you know, so similar organizations that maybe content from, you know we should theoretically, if we’re all in the animal welfare business, no of sharing each other content helps us all reach that goal faster, you know, and i’ll just remind listeners bethe first book was the network to non-profit and her co author, alison fine has been on the show just within the past couple of months. What’s now, june, alison was on so you could look for alison. Fine. If you want to meet let’s, go up. Let’s say more about that. You know, the so the network non-profit is not on ly. Yeah, not only network to the listen, the groups that are so obvious, we need to be going deeper than what’s on the surface. Yeah. I mean it’s. Not just external groups to it’s also within the organ. Okay. I knew i was headed somewhere. Yeah. Thank you for taking my hand. Yeah. Yeah, well, i mean, what what typically happens, you know, is that they think of social media is the social media person in that do you do this social media stuff? We’ll get a social media volunteer. I’m really needs to be the whole organization with a slightly larger organizations. They get toby siloed in different departments and there’s one person doing it. So i was, like, recommend a hybrid model where there are people responsible for the digital across departments and those people are the ones that are talking to one another. So we get rid of the silos and it’s been scaling and within the whole organization. But that’s not gonna happen unless leadership is behind it, unless what? We have the ability of our executive director’s toe lead with a network mindset. Okay, what does that mean? I guess you’re wondering. Well, i had something else but good what’s the network line well, that’s where they think about, you know, in two way relationship building, listening, being data and form being more transparent, and i’m seeing more more organizations having their leaders do this, they’re actually using social media is a leadership role and listening. You mentioned listening now a couple of times is really needs to be very learning process it has? Yes, a disciplined process is not just this organic kind of thing, and one organization that does a tremendous job of listening is up well, which is an ocean conservation organisation. U p w well, daughter well, and so they work in a very network way in that they do all this listening and monitoring about the chatter that’s going on around the ocean. Conservation and when they spot an opportunity, then the activate their networks of ocean conservation organizations to then distribute content and conversations around ocean conservation. I’ll give you an example. Okay, so they have where they monitor different keywords that are related to their goals. And one of them happens to be sharks. Is there interest in shark conservation? And so imagine this visual and all of a sudden there’s a line and it spikes and that’s, you know, mentions of the word shark on social network shark thing. Yeah, you know, yeah, right. Right, exactly. Back down just right. It’s like, what is that? And so they found that a lot of people were using this hashtag shark week. Okay. You know, on the discovery channel shark week. Oh, good don’t know. Thiss guy swimming in a shark cage and sharks are following him, ok, anyway, so they didn’t know about it. You know, they they found out about what you know that’s. Why the word shark? We learned about it because the discovery channel program and there’s all these people who are interested in shark. So they analyze the the they did a content analysis of the conversations. And it broke down into three ways. So there was a small segment of with sharks. They’re terrified of sharks, people who are afraid of draw’s happening. Shark attacks, don’t bump, bump, bump. Okay, then there were people who were, yea, sharks, yeah, a shark conference conservation that was their people. But that was only a third of the other two thirds happened to be people who were just like sharks, and they say, that’s, an opportunity. We can insert the conversation about shark conservation into this conversation, general conversation happening about sharks, and so what they were able to do is then activate all there other organizations, create content around shark conservation and start to tweet about that. And they were able to actually measure that they did, in fact, increase the conversation about shark conservation, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? 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You know, that’s the common fear first. Oh, my god. Scale social to everybody. Oh, my god. How we’re going to control our people, you know? Well, first there’s, this level of trust, our people, the second thing is we have a rule book known as the social media policy. And then there is a lot of training and support. And on biff it’s, a larger organizations, you might start with the people who are excited about it and that you trust tohave, you know, professional guidelines, etcetera. So the social media policy might have a thing about if you’re gonna be online representing the organization. You want to act professionally, you know, there’s always gonna be some references to the kinds of things you really can’t do on behalf the organization and be in line with the irs, like can’t there’s no partisan politics, really it’s all it’s, all manageable. It’s not definitely just want make people aware that there’s a dozen other side i mean there’s a risk. So well, let me tell you a story about let me, okay, so this is before social media. Okay, so the y m c a summer camp. Okay, all the counselors. Where y m c a t shirts right friday night. A couple of them go down to the bar twenty years ago, you know, throw down a few beers and they were complaints because, you know, what do these there were no u m c a t shirts and they’re drinking, you know? And so so they had to actually and manned the employee handbook to say, if you’re wearing a point, you know, y m c a t shirt, professional contact don’t go drinking at the bar on a friday night with your t shirt on, because that means you’re representing us. It’s no different again, you’re right. I didn’t want to suggest that. Way needed social media in orderto in order to create risks of empowering employees, i just want to get, you know, get your take on how don’t manage those risks. Yeah, so i know you have a lot of fuss about scaling, and we’re going to the next level around social media. What thoughts do you have there? Well, a lot of that is about being able, teo, empower your employees tto leverage their passion in service of the mission. Okay? And i’m gonna actually go backto up well, again, because there’s a great story. Although you have to have a bleep er on your it has a bad word. Say it, and we’ll worry about later. Okay, so there is a young woman that does this social media about part of her job. All the staff do social media up. Well, but her name is rachel, and she loves sharks. Okay? And so she had to find this tumbler community, you know about tumbler blog’s. And it had, like, five million subscribers, and it was, and they all love sharks. Okay? And was called fuck. Yeah, sharks okay. And s o but it was run by these twenty. Some. Um, things, and it was all young folks that just for crazy about sharks like and so they wanted to donate the blogged teo a non-profit and so they called her up, and and they said, yeah, we’re thinking about giving to this non-profit the discovery channel, and they said, oh, no, they’re not up non-profit because once you give itto our non-profit and so then it was brought back and the executive director, it was discussion do we have? Do we own a web property that has ah, a swear word in a part of our institutional do we swear online? You know, is that appropriate? So they decided to give, have the blah go to the employees, and they decided that the employees would buy it for the price of a pepperoni pizza. And so the block was transferred over. So and now rachel gets to spend two or three hours of her job, you know, tending to the sharks bog. So, what did you say the second time? Okay. Latto the block. Okay? Wearing? Yeah. Yeah. So? Okay, so so is that. Is it worth it to get five million people who are crazy about your mission? For the cost of a pepperoni pizza, i should say, right, right, okay, other thoughts about about s so it’s it’s not really based around empowering buy-in the employees, what about the ones who don’t really take to it? Well, i don’t know, maybe because of age or maybe because of culture do we try to bring them along? Or do we just say, you know, if it doesn’t feel right for you, then you don’t you don’t need to know is what definitely can be optional, and i think you have to think about it is a social change process within the organization, so you might start with people who are influencing others and not try to get everybody on at the same time because you’ll be faced with resistance. I’m thinking of an organization that i work at having to work with, and they were scaling it and they were they did departmental road shows where they did this, and at one meeting, i actually happen to be out, one of the senior vp said, i don’t want to be on facebook. Go on, make comments on the organization’s paige, because i don’t want the world to see. My photos of my grandson at chuck e cheese, and then we thought, ah, she doesn’t understand the privacy settings on facebook, so they did some privacy, dettori als and made her comfortable. Okay, so way could bring people along yeah, to the within their comfort level on dh through training. Yes, education help help more people come come along. Yeah, i mean, i actually did a session with the ceos of all the united way’s a california to train them to be on twitter and because it’s part of their strategy tohave all employees, you know, throughout the whole network do it. So they signed me up to do training and on the very beginning, one guy such, i’ll never get on to wit are, but this is the stupidest thing i’ve ever seen, and i’m like, well, luckily, the others didn’t feel this way, but my sort of said to him, you know what? My indicator for success this workshop will be if you get on twitter oh, you even challenged him. Yeah, okay, but you know what? And what? I had to readjust my outcome, that my metric for success was that he wasn’t going to get on twitter but he allowed his employees to do it. Okay, okay, so people can come around. Yes, alright again. Education is that buy-in we also need to be willing to fail at at this from time to time. Yes, and and use those as learning. Exactly learning opportunities. That’s, right? And that’s, you know, especially like i’m thinking about a lot of the organization’s. Here are the it’s, the people in fund-raising and there’s fund-raising benefits right events and so i asked a question, you know? Do any of you do after action reviews? You know what on dh raise their hands is what typically happens. You know way. Get the finger on that finger. But you know it’s your fault the wag a finger? Yeah, black finger. You know something doesn’t go right. It’s all your fault you know three for three tipple reactions to failure that we as individuals have first it’s your fault we blame others or it’s the agency’s fault. We say what failure? You know we deny it or else we blame ourselves for, say, it’s all my fault i’m a disease. It was all my fault. I am just terrible oh, find me on the spot i don’t deserve to live that’s pretty effusive, you know, a lot of practice is exactly exactly so so no it’s based on solve rosen swags research about psychological profiles of how we deal with making mistakes falls into one of those three typology is so we need to understand what is our perp still reaction to failure, and then once we’re aware of it within ourselves, we can understand how that how it plays out within the organization and then we need to make make the acceptance of failure part of our the way we do our work so we can get to the learning i am one of the ways is to do the failure bell. Okay, go ahead, i’ll bite. Okay, so have you ever watched olympic olympians when they’ve made a mistake or a fall like gretchen bealer, the snowboard lady rate or the gymnasts thie, olympic gin or trapeze artist stick or they fall off, right? And when they did, they do this, they raise their hands, so they raised their hands. They grin like a submissive dog and they say i failed. I’m going to move on and learn and so that’s a cathartic release, you know? I mean, i’m going to challenge you think for a moment, tony, about something that you’ve made a mistake. Mina mistake. Okay, i got it. I got it. I saw your shoulders go up and cringe. They’re really yeah. You cringe like gumby. Really? Yeah, yeah, maybe just got cold in here. Yeah, it was a cold breeze, you know, and then so it’s, just something from our childhood or upbringing. You know, i was thinking about something in business money on wisely spent. Yeah, yeah, makes us cringe. But if we’re able to do this let’s go. I felt i felt smile. So my arms are up for those listening to the podcast handup over my head, like our what sport is that field goal? Is that baseball? You know, when i fell football or baseball and then i’m gonna move on and learn what i learned from it when i met, you know, when i’m going to do differently the next time now you can’t run into a meeting late and say i fell. Beth said that was okay. Oh, and those this becomes very interesting what you said earlier about coming. From the top leaders have to be. Not not not just bought into this process, but leading the process so that people don’t fear have don’t have this fear of failure. Exactly, and that’s how it translates from the individual to the team and a lot of work. I just run the article about this for the harvard business review blawg it’s called go ahead, do a failure due a failure bell and it was actually on an analysis of non-profits that have formal ways to acknowledge and celebrate failure, and one of them is to do something group and they do a pink bow, a contest, do something dot org’s yes, i had a guest on earlier today from do something really who, uh, muneer muneer? Okay, well, may might have told you about your panjwani okay, so they dio they will bring a campaign that didn’t do well, they’ll dress up in pink boas and i’ll explain why dim or on what they learned from it. You know, global giving does the biggest loser fund-raising campaign based on the tv show what didn’t work and my favorite one is from mom’s rising, which is an activist organization. They give things a joyful funeral say that again, because they do joyful funerals. Really? That email campaign bomb? Well, time to bury it so that it died. They actually water flowers. And they given in the eulogy and that’s where they are able to reflect and go on to something that’s better outstanding. They even do a eulogy. Yes, yes. On bury the body. About two years ago, i had stephanie strawman back when she had the philanthropy beat for the new york times on she was talking about something that the world bank ran called failure, failure fair, i think or failure fest, belfast cell phone and there was fail fair. Okay, i think you’re saying about failure fail fair, right? Because i think they used in english. Bilich f a i r e you are holding on, but there’s that there was celebrating the failures they had unconference around what didn’t work exactly a nightie and there’s another group called admitting failure it’s a website so like let’s not be zombies and we’re doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past because the funders are funding something and it doesn’t work. Nobody sees that report, and people replicate those mistakes, you know? Okay, you know same. Or is it more you want to say about it? No. No. Okay, really have, like we have, like, another four and a half minutes or so. Andi want kruckel about measurement because that’s, your second book is measuring the network. Non-profit yes, we can. Can you introduce this in a couple minutes? I’m sure they data. We’re measuring. It comes right? Yeah, exactly. So the reason we brought the book is a lot of you know, after the first book, a lot of people are saying, well, okay, so now we’re we’ve changed the way we’re working, but how do we know we’re successful? And i also noticed that there were different camps about measurement most people have is either denial, fear, confusion, and they need to get to that being data informed. So i wrote this book and i actually had sixty two grantees from the packard foundation. I’m visiting scholar. There they were field testing the book with katie paine, my co authors framework. Okay, which is the seven steps of measurement. So the book takes it and puts measurement and very human easy to understand language that can help organizations go through a process. Tio measure and figure out what’s working and what’s not working with their social media and to improve it and to get better results. Okay, we can we just have time to really scratch the surface of data of this kind of measurement. What’s the easiest place to start that we could talk a little bit about in just a couple of minutes. Okay, the best. The easiest place to start is don’t try to measure the ocean if you don’t have the resources to measure the ocean, just measure one beach. Start with one simple campaign. One project, one channel. Figure out what they outcomes are for success with the one metric is for success collectibe months worth of data on that. And then actually sit down and look at it and figure out what, how you could do it better. Okay, we could we could talk a little more. We haven’t. I said, like, forty minutes ago. I’m about to give you the two minute version. We got a couple more minutes. All right. You have the luxury of time here on the morning. Okay. Three more minutes anyway. Let’s, let’s, go a little deeper. How do you how? Do you start that process? It’s going to start with? We’ll doesn’t let me ask, does it start with what were the goals of the campaign? Well, it starts with defining success, okay? You know, you know, social media is not engagement for engagements say even though engagement is really important but engagement to do something, you know, what is the outcome? Is it is it to raise money? Is it to change behavior isn’t to change legislation, is it? Teo, you know, tio improve relationships with donors, you know, is it to learn something? You know what? What is it? Why are we doing this and really home that in and once you’ve to find that what is the one metric that we can collect? That’s gonna tell us that we’ve been successful doing this, knowing in advance? Yes, yeah, we’re still in advance of the campaign. Yes, exactly symmetrical joined and social media could be about generating more conversations with the example i gave you about shark conservation, you know? And if we’re looking at you gnome or more now we’re seeing social fund-raising, you know, so if the ultimate result is more dollars raised, we know that in order to get more dollars, razor has more engagement from our engagement. We have two better relationships with our donors. We have people have to know about us. So you have to have this whole ladder of it of engagement and need. What? What the benchmark is to convert from each rung and then relating that to your what? How are you doing this? What kinds of conversation starters are you using? How are you doing your influence? A research and making it better based on that data that you’re getting right, being willing to recognize that there there are better ways is to have done it. Yes, not. We’re going to do with sam away. Okay. Anything you want to leave people with, we have just a minute left. Maybe a final thought on measurement. Yeah, i think that my final thought is that i think you know, the keys to success of being a network non-profit is to be networked, use measurement and make sense of your data. Okay. I also, like not being afraid to fail. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Making sense of yours, you know, making sense. Your data part of that is don’t be afraid. To fail. Okay, good on. Learn from it. Okay. Beth cancer. Master trainer, blogger, speaker, author network non-profit and measuring the network non-profit beth where’s your blawg it’s ah, beth catcher dot org’s just google. Beth, just go to bed and i show up number after kiss beth but if you need to go further cancerous k and tr thank you very much for being against great. Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure, it’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen which has been taken down around us if i was to pan the camera now you see bare tables no more pipe and drape no more nice bunting, no more flowers, your table’s being wheeled out on carts and basically an empty room with lots of trash around that’s what’s left of the last remnants of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen. Thanks very much for being with us. My thanks to beth cantor and all the folks who helped organize our appearance at fund-raising day two thousand thirteen, we were on the exhibit floor doing interviews for the show. We go away for a couple of minutes and after we come back tony’s take to my gratitude and maria simple goodbye, google alerts. Stay with me. E-giving anything tooting, getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz e-giving. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? 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Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef duitz oh! Bonem welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m sorry, i can’t send live listener love this week, even though it’s the sesquicentennial we’re pre recording this week. But of course, live love going out to all our listeners in asia, japan, china, south korea. If if if our friends from buenos aires around ola alejandro francisco, california, north carolina, new york, oregon, those are the frequent listeners texas checks in from time to time. So but live listener love to everybody who’s listening. Thank you very much for listening. And tony’s, take two is my additional thank you for being supporters of the show. This is one hundred fiftieth show we started in july two thousand ten, and i’m just grateful for your support week after week. For those of you who get the email alerts, i thank you for letting me into your inbox every thursday. Thank you for that. Um, just, uh, just grateful. Stay with us for another hundred fifty and that is not on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com it’s just coming from me. And that is tony’s. Take two for friday twelfth of july the the twenty eighth show of the year. Maria samples with us to talk about the possibility of google alerts going good bye. How are you, maria? Simple. I’m doing well, thanks. How are you today? Terrific. Thank you. We know maria she’s, the prospect finder she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now, she’s our doi n of dirt cheap and free you’re gonna prove that today is gonna live up to it. You can follow maria on twitter at maria simple. I see some disenchantment with google alerts is that is that part of the problem? Yes, you know, there has been some disenchantment with it. I’ve been seeing other colleagues in the prospect research profession kind of complaining about the alerts not working as well and so forth. And, you know, i had found that myself and we’ve talked about this before, right? Tony on your shows where, you know, talk about how to tweak the alerts and maybe you’ll get it more results. But now i’ve actually started seeing some articles in recent months. Ah, nothing. Has been confirmed by google that i could find on their own website that have said that a google alert might actually be dying off. It might just go away. It might not be something they offer anymore and got me quite concerned because it seems like they’re not really maintaining it because the number of people are complaining that the number of alerts they’re getting has been reduced and the number of alerts within each message has been reduced and the ones that they’re getting are not so good quality, not not like they used to be, right, exactly. So i thought, well, there must be some alternatives out there and fortunately, some of the articles that i referenced which, by the way, i can provide those article links if you like, on your social media sites telling readers, will have access to them, they gave some interesting alternatives, and i started playing around with them a little bit myself in preparation for today’s show, so i thought we could just sort of talk about what some of those alternatives are and also what you want to be setting up alerts on, right? I’m sure that we can do that so what you’re promising, i think all free, all free ideas today. Yeah, well, i’m gonna provide you with some alternatives that all have free components to it. Okay? And then if people feel like those alerts aren’t yielding enough results, they could always go with some of the sea based resource. Is that those components also offer? So e i give your listeners options? Shall we? Ok, there, our listeners, maria, our listeners please share that share the lizard shared listener love. There are listeners. Okay, so, uh, what’s the first one you wanna talk about? So one interesting when i came across that i’ve been testing for a few weeks, actually is called talk walker dot com uh, so they have free alerts that you can set up, but they have a fee based online service. But from what i have found in using it for the last couple weeks, i’ve been getting alerts from them on the same exact alerts that i had set up on my google alerts account, and the results definitely have been different. I can’t say that. Okay, he’s not supposed to be that way. But if google is not keeping up maintaining its alerts than i guess. It’s, i guess that’s the explanation. Okay, so so what is it you like about talk? Walker? Well, i like the fact that you can set those alerts for free. You can still have those alerts delivered to your email inbox. So again, it’s sort of that push technology that we’ve talked about in the past set it up once. Once you’ve got it set up the way you want it, it’ll just keep delivering those those results to your inbox. So i really like that feature very much on talk walker. Also, you can set it up to be able tio send it to you as an alert as often as you like, you can set it up, you know, once today, as it happens or once a week. So you’ve got a few options there and how often you get those alerts delivered very much like google. So i think anybody who’s familiar with google alert, they’re going to find this interface to be very similar. So the interface is is similar, but the quality of the results is much better. Your seeing a difference, obviously, yeah. I have been seeing a difference, i’ve been finding more alert that air coming through where there are mentions on blogger on dh, some other social media related sites, so i thought that was definitely kind of interesting there, you know, how those alerts air coming through and how it seems to expand upon just the number of sources that it seemed to be picking up on, for example, i haven’t alert set up on my name and there’s an author, maria sample, we’ve talked about this before, and, uh, so i was able to filter out the results where her book title was also mentioned in the search results, much like i would do for for a google alert, for example. So is the shortcoming that you see or part of the shortcoming that you see in the google lorts is that it’s not indexing in searching blog’s or yeah, this is part of a defensive services that i’ve looked into seemed to be covering more on the social mentions side, which, you know, could be really important for a non-profit to be monitoring when they’re, you know, looking to monitor their own brand or who’s talking about them on social, so i thought that was really pretty cool. Okay? And you’re not seeing those results on the google alerts. Not as extensive. No. Okay. Interesting. So you’re doing side by side comparison because you said the alert your setting on these test sites are the same as the ones you have set for google. Okay, avery, right. And the only one that i set up for the last few weeks is on the talk walker site on the others too, that i really kind of tested out in preparation for today’s show. I didn’t mora’s, you know, live looking at the search search results tonight, i did look atyour name to see where some of this came up on social one of the other sites that that we’ll talk about called mentioned dot net. Is that the only one where i definitely different is that the only one where i appeared is unmentioned or that’s? Only one where you set the alert for may? I said it i that was the one where i set up the the alert for you on dh then yeah, definitely. That was one where i set up toe look at tony martignetti and i’ve noticed something that came up on philanthropy dot com for you, and this is on mentioned dot net this’s going, we haven’t talked about yet. Why don’t we move someone? We moved to that one since ah, it’s, it’s all about me and thiss must have been the most interesting a sight in your searcher and you’re testing because that’s the way so was it mentioned dot com it’s actually mentioned dot net. Okay mentioned dot net? Yeah, and so they had a neat analytics tool is built into it. You can get emailed alerts, which i did not set up the email alerts. I just kind of monitoring what was going on on the site itself. Um, the alerts can actually be shared with a team of co workers. So, i mean, think about this in a team of non-profits i mean, a non-profit development team or ah, development committee or something like that in a smaller non-profit where you would want to make sure that people were also sort of aware of where your key donors might be mentioned or where your organization name might be mentioned. So i thought that was a pretty neat feature. Yeah, saves you having to. Get the e mails and then forward them to people, right? Exactly, exactly. But i understand you weren’t you weren’t getting using yours? Yes, i did come across some mention of the tweet you had sent out about listening toe episode one forty nine i saw you mentioned on ah blawg for n green non-profit dot com i saw your mention on philanthropy dot com where else could i see? Do you do you know a person named david? Dear inger no, i don’t attorney no, no. Well, yeah, he was talking about me and i appreciate it. That’s fine. I’m happy to have people talking about me. Who? I don’t know that they’re the ones who’ll say the best things they don’t they don’t know me that well. Um okay, so so this actually goes into tweets too. But but now i send tweets under my name. Many a day like i don’t know it doesn today or something, would it? Would it not be finding those for some reason? Or is it only people talking about me? Not me, not not my own content. Maybe that’s it right? So it was i just did it on your name. I didn’t do it on your twitter handle, i did it on tony space martignetti is what i’m having a track on mentioned dot net on dso it tell it told me that, for example, seven hours ago is when you tweeted out that tweet about listen toe episode one forty nine you know, etcetera, so it’ll it’ll tell you how long ago this mentioned was also mentioned online are xero so, you know, i just thought it was definitely something that could be interesting for organizations you know, where this got me to really thinking it could be fascinating would be an article that i read, i don’t know if you you picked up on that in the june issue of the chronicle of philanthropy, and that particular issue talked a lot about raising money online and one of the things that kind of to the forefront. For me, the ability to use these alerts was the organization, the environmental defense fund. I don’t know if they’re listener of your show, but it turns out that the article mentions that they’ve trained their data specialists to scour the internet to find out who is advocating on behalf of the organization online. And then they conduct research to find out what would swayed the activists to make a first time gift and then give again okay, so you know, that got me to thinking, well, this is just sort of a way to find out who’s talking about you, perhaps start connecting with them online, bringing it to the attention of your front line fundraiser that you’re being talked about by this particular person, and this could be a real advocate. This could be somebody you should get to know. Yeah, for sure using i mean, that’s the value of the prospect research, right? I mean, they’re they’re feeding their feeding the pipeline with potential prospects with right suspects, become prospects or suspects could could become prospects. Okay, absolutely. Now, do you see differences between mention and talk? Walker? Yeah, definitely the interfaces is a lot different and, you know, i think that people just take a look at it and see where they’re you know, most comfortable they do have a zay said they also provide that emailed alerts and analytics tool, and this company actually does provide certain levels of service so that you can have plans, they range from six, ninety nine a month to sixty five dollars a month. And so again, there, if you’re finding that you really like this service, but you’d liketo have many more search results than what you’re getting or you want to track a lot more alert than you, you know, maybe you’ve got a twenty donorsearch teams you want to track or something like that, then you know, you you might have to go into some of the sea bass services. Okay. Okay. So there’s limits on the number of alerts for the for the flames. Fundez limit the alert. Okay. Okay. We have about a minute before we go away for a couple minutes. Another site you want to talk about besides talk walker and mention yes, there’s another one called social mentioned dot com and, uh, they have set up that is a gun similar to setting up your google alerts in terms of being able to set up in advance search, like the filtering service. And before we go to break just a teaser, i’ll just say to your listeners, come back because you want to know what we’re talking about here when we talk about a passion score for, uh, for social mentions. Okay, look at maria, give it doing little outro to the break that’s. So that’s, so skilled, passion score sounds, sounds pretty cool. We have passion in the studio every every week, i believe, okay, we’re going to take that break that maria just brought us into, and when we come back, she and i’ll keep talking about the alternatives to google or it’s, just in case they go away, and to me, it sounds like even if google lorts doesn’t go away, she’s got alternatives. That seemed better, so stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s, monte, m o nt y monty taylor. Dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back to the low qui loki sesquicentennial, loki, sesquicentennial show maria, why don’t you tell us what the what the passion score is at social mentioned dot com so the passions score as they define it. They say it’s, a measure of the likelihood that individuals talking about your brand will do so repeatedly. For example, if you have a small group of very passionate advocates to talk about your product or brand all the time, you will have a hyre passions score. So imagine in a situation where you’ve got people who are who are just really, always tweeting about your organization. Uh, i mean, these are people that are right there at their they’re advocating their retweeting your stuff, etcetera, this’s something that you want to be aware of is and this is free. We could get our passion score for free from social mention dot com. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Okay. Absolutely. So, for example, i had gone in and just on a search and put in my name in quotes like i would on an advanced search of for google because i wanted to search for maria semple is a phrase, and then i wanted to knock out any of the search results where that other author was mentioned, so i knew what keywords to put in there to knock out the results, and i came up with a very interesting set of searches search results, i should say that included photos that were taken of me speaking by others and posted on flicker ah, video that i had created and placed on youtube. Um, what else did i come across other videos where i appeared like a non-profit times interview, so i just kind of left it open for all dates, but you could also if you find the search results are you are too high, you can also filter it down and say, well, i’m also only interested in seeing, say up to the last thirty days worth of results as to where your your mentioned excellent so you want to share your passion score? Actually, it said it was fifty percent when i did that search in that way, so i thought that wasn’t too bad. Ok, i’m going, i’m going to try this one. I like this one on dh if my passion score is higher than fifty, then i’ll reveal it. And if it’s not, then we’ll just forget about it. Yeah, they talk well, let me set up an alert and fortunately, um, right now they’re alert service is disabled so you can go to the website without having toe log in and create an actual account or anything, and you can you can go ahead and do a search on social mention dot com and see what the search results are and trying to filter them down. But in terms of then linking that particular search up to be constantly sent to you through email, we talked about before their alert services currently disabled. So i hopefully i mean it says it’s coming up in the next week or so, maybe they’re just revamping it, making it bigger and better. I’m not sure, but that was that was a little disappointing to see. I couldn’t actually test the alert feature. Tio it’s good, you know, for listeners to understand we’re recording on tuesday the ninth so by the time you listen, maybe we’ll be back up. But it sounds pretty cool, but can we get the passion score without the alert feature being up? Yeah, yeah. So i just went to social mention dot com i put in the search that i was looking for, and it came up with a passion score. And then they come up with something also called a sentiment score. Oh, and they say that that’s the ratio of mentions that are generally positive to those that are generally negative. And i have no idea how they define positive versus negative. But ah, this was out of the search. The thirteen let’s see out of the twenty six mentions, they gave me a sentiment score of thirteen xero meaning that i guess it was mostly a positive, i hope that’s what the issue is not okay, i hope it’s positive to negative not negative to positive for your for your benefit. We’ll tell you what. Why don’t you just do a little have a little fun? We only have a few more minutes and i still won’t talk about what you should be monitoring. Why don’t you put my name in quotes in social mention dot com let’s see what we come up with, like passionate zoho are put it in it’s tony martignetti passion version and see what we come. Up with versus the other one sentiment and okay, but let’s move let’s, you and i will get to that before we get seven percent passion score. Tony, i killed you. It’s around it’s? Not even close it’s not even close. It started in close. It’s a route cream your clothes wear matter-ness metrics. We don’t get too excited about this. Tony martignetti a seven percent passion scores your sentiment score came up as three, two, zero, three. All right, let’s not talk about that sentiment score clearly is not acting. I’m looking at things in here from fund-raising day in new york. Somebody’s gotta blogged on youtube videos about you. Well, clearly the sentiment score that’s inaccurate. So we dismissed that that that that function, that function is not working clearly. So don’t pay any attention to what you get for the sentiment score the passion scores very accurate. But you know, these vanity mary-jo vanity that you believe that these air vanity metrics we don’t pay that much attention. I killed you, but we’re not paying that much attention. Really, teo, vanity metrics smear. But they’re not really that important. Let’s talk about what? What we should be. Monitoring? Because only have a couple minutes left. What should we what should non-profits be paying attention to and setting in these different, uh, adi’s different sites. Okay. So the name of your organization again here that will help point you toward people who are advocates on your behalf. You should be setting up alerts on your top donors. Think about reasons tohave to send out and reach out and have a touchpoint with your donors that don’t involve asking them for money. So this might alert you to wear. Your donors are mentioned in the press. It might alert you, teo, on somebody having ah, major appointment or advancement or appointment to a board of directors somewhere. So your top donors, the companies were your donor’s work. So again here, if that’s important for you to also maintain a relationship with the company because it’s a large corporation or if it’s one of your donors, private companies that’s almost more important, i think because whatever is happening in that donors world related to his his or her private company, you’d want to know about those those major, you know, advancements in the press, for example. So again here, it’s an opportunity for you to perhaps pick up the phone, send out an email, sent out a card somethingto have some sort of a touchpoint thatyou noticed, right? Andi could add foundations to that too, for the same purpose, right? We like. We like to keep in touch with foundations just like they’re people because they’re they’re staffed by people so foundations that are funding you, you might find a reason to write to them and you’re not, uh you’re not sending ah request for, you know, a grant grant proposal. Exactly. Okay, we pretty much have to leave it there. Maria. Excellent advice, as always. Thank you very much. You will find maria at the prospect finder dot com and also on twitter at maria simple. Thanks, maria. Thanks so much. Next week i’ll have another fund-raising day interview for you. I don’t know which one quite yet. My voice just cracked. They’re a little bit for you and amy sample word comes back she’s, our social media contributor and the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten have you liked our facebook page? It’s another vanity metric. I know, but if you can, if you can make your way over there. Love to have your like this is the last time i’ll ask for a couple of weeks at least, insert sponsor message over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities. Listen each week, if you’d like to talk about sponsorship for the show, you can reach me through the blogged. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules he’s, the one who enabled me to get all that audio and video from fund-raising day. I hope you’ll be with me next friday. That’ll be the nineteenth. I’ll be back in the studio. We’ll be at talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. E-giving didn’t think shooting. Good ending to do. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Cubine are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sixty body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday, said noon eastern time to learn timpson juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Soul. Every thursday ad, men in new york times on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Hyre this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking.

Nonprofit Radio for July 22, 2011: The CEO as Fundraising MVP & The Fine Art of Conversion

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.
Here is the link to the podcast: 051: The CEO as Fundraising MVP & The Fine Art of Conversion.

Tony’s Guests:

Mindy Duitz
Karen Pearl

Mindy Duitz & Karen Pearl: The CEO as Fundraising MVP

Two chief executives, Mindy Duitz at Learning Leaders and Karen Pearl at God’s Love We Deliver, reveal their insights on how to motivate, engage and position your CEO to be a fundraising MVP.

Interviewing Scott Barnett at Fund Raising Day NY

Scott Barnett: The Fine Art of Conversion

Don’t be afraid of analytics. Tools like Google Analytics can help you convert website visitors into online donors, and help you engage younger prospects who become donors. My guest, Scott Barnett, is director of web communications for Fairfield University.




Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Fridays, 1-2PM Eastern

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Hello and welcome to the show. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. I’m your aptly named host it’s friday, july twenty second, two thousand eleven we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I hope you were with me last week when we had cool collaborations and intelligently engaging generations x and y first, sandra lam and i talked about mergers, partnerships, collaborations and acquisitions. When should your board be talking about thes, and how do you execute them? Later? We had leslie goldman and casey rotter from the us fund for unicef, sharing their expertise in cultivating your next generation of donors, engaging twenty one to forty year olds this week, i have two interviews again from fund-raising day, the association of fund-raising professionals conference in new york city, which was this past june first, the ceo as fund-raising m v p for those of you who don’t know baseball that’s most valuable player like me, i had to look that up. Mindy dietz and karen pearl, they’re both non-profit chief executives, and they reveal their insights on how to motivate, engage and position your ceo to be a fund-raising m v p and i assume you know what ceo stands for, then the fine art of conversation, of conversion, the fine art of conversion don’t be afraid of analytics tools like google analytics can help you convert website visitors into online donors and help you engage younger prospects who later become donors. My guest is scott barnett and he’s, the director of web communications for fairfield university. In between those two interviews, of course it’s tony’s, take two this month is our one year anniversary. All this month celebrating, we’ve got two new regular contributors in law and prospect research joining me actually two contributors in law starting later this month and then a contributor in prospect research starting in august. I’ll talk about those and i was on tv this week. We’ve consumer reporter esa aaron’s, we were talking about the irs revocation of tax exempt status list. Ah, and i also did a bit of stand up comedy this week, so tony’s take two, maybe more like tony’s take three or four, but it’ll definitely be around thirty two minutes into the hour and that will all be on tony’s take two right now we take a break and then when we come back the ceo as fund-raising m v p hyre you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey, sick. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven with the new york city marriott marquis in times square. My guest now are mindy dietz, president of learning leaders, and karen pearl, president and ceo of god’s love we deliver, ladies welcome great to be here. Thank you very much. Pleasure to have you your fund-raising topic you’re fund-raising seminar topic is the ceo as fund-raising m v p now, just a couple of minutes ago, i was talking to three, three people, three guests, about motivating they’re bored to cultivate major gifts, and we’ll talk about that bored relationship with the ceo. But, karen, what? What are the key elements of the ceo as fund-raising most valuable player? I would say that the key element is that so many of our donors actually want to meet the ceo, get to know the ceo. And so the there’s a partnership between the board, the ceo and the development team to make sure that the ceo knows who they’re about to meet, what they’re going to talk about and is ready because if the ceo is ready, that’s the best leverage that you khun get okay, ready? And willing, ready and willing. Okay, maybe we’ll talk about the unwilling ceo back-up. I’m sorry, leslie, why don’t you? What would you like, tio? Sort of sorry, mindy. Mindy, what would you like to open with around the ceo as most valuable player for fund-raising? Well, i i would echo what karen just said, and i think the key to all of fund-raising and all of these things is relationships that i think that the ceo has to be the person who manages up the person who manages down from donors to board and really forms i kind of ahh whole chain of people having faith in each other because people do invest in people as well as organization. And so i was really primarily i think, who we all are and who we represent in terms of the organizations and mindy, how does the ceo sort of set the culture of fund-raising for the rest of the organization, we’ll we’ll be talking about their individual role with respect directly with donors, but how did they set a culture of fund-raising throughout the organization for the others? I think we, you know, we all know what they have to explain that every single member of staff and every boardmember absolutely are part of the fund-raising team, we’re all selling something we don’t like to maybe use that terminology, but we are the spokespeople where the practitioners where the deliverers and we have to care and we have to have passion and i think what distinguishes all of us as non-profits is the passion for what we do and that’s what makes us able and all be part of fund-raising but what is the ceo need to do? Teo teo, race everybody else well, we need to be the chief cheerleader. We need to be the person who keeps reminding everyone about the value of the work. I mean, what we really selling is something very important depending on the mission of our organization. So i think the ceo really has to be the person who could articulate it and also inspire people to go out and help sell it. And karen, as we just mentioned a second ago, i said, you know, willingness there has to be that willingness in order for the c e o to convey the same enthusiasm to the rest of the organization without question. And the ceo has to be willing and i what we talk a lot. About it, god’s love we deliver is that each of us has a very special role as an ambassador, and it doesn’t matter whether we’re being the ambassador directly with clients. The ambassador with our volunteers, ambassador with our donors, but way worked very hard to make sure that all of our staff are prepared to to play that role, to know enough about god’s love some key talking points to be able to talk the sunday dinner with family or at the ball field sitting with their friends, and i think that does come very much from the leadership if the leadership of the organization is comfortable fund-raising and helps people understand there very special role in that that filters down into the culture and people really enjoy it. They really like it. Some of us are staff for some of our best fundraisers. Is it possible, karin, for youto say, how much of your time is devoted to fund-raising some ceos will say one hundred percent right it’s, not a hundred percent. Everything i do is really fund-raising you know yes, you could say that, but i think the heart of your question is how often am i? Actually, either meeting with the development team meeting with the board meeting with donors on i would say that’s probably half of my time. Okay, okay. Mindy, do you have advice for boards as they’re hiring a ceo around, making sure that they get a ceo who’s able and willing to do all the things that you you described earlier and be that passionate fundraiser? I mean, the single most important thing that a board of any organization does is hyre their ceo and it’s got to be a fit, and that sounds kind of trite, but it has to be fit with them because in a way, they’re looking for someone to champion their cause and give them direction. I mean, the ceo is not the chairman of the board, but has to be with the chairman, a leader and a partner. So i think the hiring is really about looking for a match and there’s no one definition of that it’s got to be the culture of the organization, the goals of the organization, the level the organization is at, you know, a startup is looking for one kind of person. A very established organization looks for different. Level so it’s, knowing where you’re at, the board needs to know where the organizations that and what’s the match for that level, you know, i don’t want to pursue this little bit more about the hiring of the ceo. Do you like to see people within the organization interviewing potential ceo candidates? You mean, like the staff? Yeah, i think it is absolutely the board’s decision. I don’t think the board should ask the permission of the staff. Frankly, i think a smart candidate will ask to meet the key staff to see who they are to see what they’re saying. And so i think it’s an important thing, to have an interaction and to get a real feel so that, you know the ceo themselves has a taste of what the organization is and can even turn to the board and say, well, this is what i see, and perhaps the culture needs to go one way or the other. And are you going to be with me on that? E-giving didn’t think the tubing getting ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking duitz things cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Oppcoll are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com looking to meet mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your car relationship as fulfilling as possible? Then please join us, starting monday, may second at ten am for love in the morning with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Karen earlier you suggested about thie i just forgot what i was going to ask you about the willingness of the ceo. Now we’ll have to skip that because when i come back, then i think the question about hiring the ceo, the one of the thing that i would say is that when boards goto hyre ceo, they themselves are the in some ways the organization’s key donors, and they can very quickly judged by their own reaction whether they think the person who’s sitting in front of them has vision, has passion, can communicate it because what they’re seeing in that interview process is what donors will say. Of course, in an interview, you’re not going to know the organization as well, or and there will be a learning curve, but bored should put themselves not only in the role of the governance leader, but also in the role of the of the donor and say, is this somebody who i see is the face of this organization, who i feel comfortable putting out there, you might be happy being the front person, you know what i was going to ask you is you had alluded to donors. Wanting to see the ceo now, how do you manage over exposure so that the ceo, i don’t think, shouldn’t be brought in for every obviously for every donor meeting? How do you decide when it’s appropriate and for which donors? The meeting for the ceo is right? I’m we’re time not an issue. I would say that your premise that the ceo should be brought in for every donor is not so because i do think that every donor is entitled to know the organization and know the leadership time sometimes is an issue, so what we do it god’s love is that we do some combination of donors, meetings that are one on one and other other donor meetings that might be a group of people who come in. So we’re now in a siri’s of coffee with the ceo so i can sit and talk with a number of people at the same time, so we try very hard to be as connected and not just connected to me, though that’s. The other key is that they want to meet the ceo, but the ceo doesn’t have to be there only relationship with the organization there are board members, there are other donors, their staff, particularly the development staff, and we share that, yeah, that’s going to play at all levels. There should be no donor who only knows one member of the staff, right, including those including those people who are receiving your services. Don’t you want to broaden no, the knowledge base of the the recipients, right, right. We’re benefitting right? Well, mostly what we care about, because that god’s love we’re dealing with people who are really sick, and so when they need to connect with us, we want them to make that connection. We don’t want them tow. Have tio hang on the phone for a long time, get a call back they could be napping by the call comes back, so for us, it’s, like call anybody. We have a lot of general numbers so that people can. Our clients can get to us really without fuss. Karen what’s, the part of fund-raising that you dislike the most. I don’t know there isn’t really one that i just i guess the thing that i had to think about, that what nobody’s ever done it good like like, well, mindy, what do you see in your in your practice? The part that ceos perhaps struggle with the most? I think, you know, like carrot it’s so integral to the job you don’t think about liking it or not like it. I think sometimes is a part of me that just takes a deep breath and says all the energy and all the time and money that goes into raising money. There are moments when you wish you could be using that more to be delivered your service, but it’s kind of integral to the work, and it is rewarding because it’s europe opportunity to have people invested in what you’re doing. But is there something that you see ceo struggle with more than than others are maybe it’s identifying or speaking in large groups or meeting in individual meetings? I think the nature of being a ceo is that you need to be comfortable with all of those modes, and what might be a struggle is if it’s really not you. If it’s not, you’re fit, you could be quiet at it. You could be loud at it. You could be exuberant. You could have your own style. Think i think for all work. It’s got to be a match. Okay, i’m with mindy dietz, president of learning leaders, and karen pearl, president and ceo of god’s love we deliver and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven let’s talk about the relationship with the board. The board is integral fund-raising integral member of the fund-raising team as a whole and then also as individuals. Um, karen, how do you manage that relationship with your board? As as fundraisers? It’s a really key part, i think of the ceo’s job is managing the relationship with the boards that you say as individuals and as a group, as a collective and of getting finding the right way to engage each boardmember because each has their own skills, abilities, willingness and comfort level comfort, you know, so some people are, like, great, you know, getting in there with you making an ask of somebody another one might say i’m really not comfortable with that. But i will send a letter and another might say, i’m more willing tohave people come to events with me or to buy a table or do other things. Some people are fantastic spokespeople, and they don’t really want to do fund-raising so i think a riel art is getting the best of each of your board members and as a collective getting the skill set that you need to really advance the organization in fund-raising sing, but in lots of different areas, and how do you assess what each board members strengths and weaknesses are? Is there some kind of formal assessment, or is it really just you getting to know them and understanding that way? That process starts way back in the recruitment process for new board members in terms of why’re they being recommended, what is their formal resume? And then what is there in formal resume? Because a lot of people have skills that, like, they might be a coach and if somebody’s a coach on the side that speaks to how they might work in a group on your board so it’s getting to know them through the recruitment process and then ultimately spending some time with board members, once they’re on the board to talk about that and to nurture them, we have somebody in our board right now who promised us he would never do an ounce of fund-raising and he’s now like out there, getting his friends involved, calling people asking that takes time, and so where they start may not be where they end up after your two of service mini. And in your practice, do you use much formal assessment of board members, may be assessing each other or certainly at least themselves. I’ve had experiences with both. I think it’s actually very healthy to do formal assessment, but it depends again at the point, the board is that where the organization is that in i said in the beginning of this conversation that all this is about relationships and managing them. And i think boards need to self assess. And i need to say how we doing and how’s our mix and what is it we need more of? And that could be that’s sometimes good to do formally. Maybe they need a workshop. Maybe there are those people who want to practice. Most importantly, it’s a one on one relationship to building their strengths and the formality, i think, just gets the conversation started. What about the training of board members for fund-raising that i’m imagine that probie starts in the recruitment process, also setting expectation, but let’s talk generally about the think that its friends, whether it’s a new boardmember who’s never been ever a boardmember or a very experienced one. You know, some people come to you with a lot already, i’ve we often have formal training sessions that there’s a campaign we’re going to meet. We’re going over the goals and even role playing so it could be very formal and specific or coming to conferences like this. Conferences are a great way to bring a boardmember into a professional setting to realize they’re connected to a much broader world. It’s, not just their organization, that there’s resource is that it also inspires that they feel very proud. You know? Karen looked like you were nodding and suggesting you want to say something around setting the board members expectations at the recruitment stage around fund-raising i think it’s very important to do that very important before you as you offering them aboard position to make. Sure, they understand that, and then to keep working and doing training and four every time you ask a boardmember to help is another opportunity to advance what they know in their comfort level. So something is simple. One of the things we’re about to have a big fund-raising about van next saturday night, and our board members will have the names of two people we really want them to connect with and a little cheat sheet that’ll fit like in their shirt pocket that has the two or three things we really want them to talk about with that person, so they feel like when they come over and they say hi, tony, i hope you’re having a good time tonight that if the person’s not really chatty, they know what to follow up with, and that gives him a great comfort level. And again, they become fantastic ambassadors because in a party, we’re not asking them to fundraise per se, we’re asking them to friend race that’s a great example, i think, of giving ah boardmember overy manageable goal at the meet at this is large event we’d like you to meet these two people. That’s, right? No. That’s, right? And then we set up staff to make sure that the staff is on the lookout for those two people. And that one boardmember to make sure that they find each other right there where they can feel successful. It’s one thing to get a gift, get a grant, but there’s so many steps along the way and giving very specific direction and, you know, something like a real job at this event, it just makes people feel really good. You know, mindy, how do you like to see ceos prepare for a meeting with a donor? Doesn’t necessarily have to be a solicitation. Could be. But how do you like to see them prepare for meeting with a major donor? Well, i always like to be fully briefed by my development staff. Or it might be a boardmember who knows this donor’s? Well, i like to know everything. I like to know their professional background. Other organizations were involved with kind of a nice profile research. And then we like we sit. I like to talk to a couple of people. The organization think. Well, given this person’s background, you know how? What are the parts of? Our organization or work that we think of the strongest and just really go in briefed and at the same time be wide open to going in another direction because you really don’t know and people start talking what you’re going. I’ve gone in thinking one and ended up discussing, you know, climbing mountains in nepal because that’s something we found together and that brought us into the conversation that’s great when i was when i was as a plan giving director at a couple of colleges, i would look for things in the office that would make a connection, whether it was, uh, well, i’m not too much of a sports guy, so but i had to sort of hold my own in sport because i don’t really know much about it, but lots of guys do. So if i see a sailboat and i need to know where you know, where is it, you know, looking for that connection that you’re talking about. Mindy yeah, because as you said several minutes ago, people give to people right? And they love your work, but that connection with the person critical. Karen, how do you like to prepare for your for your meetings, let’s say it is a solicitor. I broke my voice broke again, you know, because in the last interview says that we’re talking about sixteen to forty year olds, so i think i’m going back to puberty. My voice just cracked. Sorry. How do you like to prepare let’s say it is a solicitation you’re asking from someone for ah, mid six figures gift. How do you like to prepare for that meeting? Well, i would add mindy’s whole list i would add to that they’re giving history with us potentially they’re giving history with others so that we have a sense of whether we’re asking them for the biggest gift they’ve ever given or not the biggest gift they’ve ever given, because that depends on their willingness, their capability and their potential eagerness. And then i now in my career that i can sort of go with that earlier on in my career, i liked to practice, i actually like to sit down and practice asking because until you mike’s, we do a role play with a staff member with a development person board the boardmember for the two of if it’s a boardmember and myself for six figure gift, we would might go with two people. We need to sit down so we know who’s going to do because usually sometimes you run the risk it’s a great meeting your back and forth and then, like you’re looking each other, like who’s going to ask so everybody’s role needs to be very clearly defined. And i think you need to practice saying the words, and i’m hoping that you will consider a gift of whatever number you’ve planned on two the organization and until you can actually get those words out of your mouth, and the best way to do that is practice it so often that it’s a sentence like anything else, it will become second nature. You know, that’s, the ceo is fund-raising m v p i’ve been with mindy dietz, president of learning leaders, and karen pearl, president and ceo of god’s love. We deliver ladies, thank you very much for joining me in the things this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. I’m ken berger of charity navigator, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back, it’s time now for tony’s take to this month is our one year anniversary. In fact, this show is show number fifty one, so fifty two weeks next week will be shown number fifty two, who fifty one shows this is it, sam gives upload that’s the vast audience that’s sam, our producer. So later this month on the the only show remaining this month, next friday, the twenty ninth we’re bringing on to new contributors both talking about law that will be jean takagi and emily chan. Their law firm is the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm or neo ennio. They’re based in san francisco. Gene is the publisher of the non-profit law blawg, which you’ll find it non-profit law blawg, dot com and emily chan works for him and is a contributor to that blogged. They’ll be joining me next week and then in august on august twelfth, i’ll be welcoming maria simple. She is the prospect finder, and she’ll be a regular contributor on prospect research for your non-profit she’s, a popular speaker and also a consultant in that area. I was on tv this week with esa aaron’s he’s, the consumer reporter for new york, one news his segments in the eleven o’clock news they’re called consumerwatch, and he and i were talking about the irs is automatic revocation list that list of two hundred seventy five thousand non-profits in the country that have lost their tax exempt status automatically. We talk about what that meant for donors to those charities and also for the charity’s themselves, and that was on time warner cable. That was tuesday. No, that was monday night on time warner cable, but i’ll have a link on my block, probably by the time this show is is airing the b link on my block and you can find it there. The post is called i’m on tv with a psa aarons, my block, of course at m p g a d v dot com and also this week i did stand up comedy at gotham comedy club that was a wednesday night show. I was part of a new talent show and the video for that will be on my blog’s soon, not this week, but shortly when i get the video, i will. Certainly put it up there, it was great fun and people did laugh, so it was a success because it was a comedy club, after all, and so that’s cool, this is year number one very exciting on very happy to be welcoming those those three experts as regular contributors and that’s tony’s take two for friday, july twenty second. It’s time now for my conversation with scott barnett talking about the fine art of conversion pre recorded at fund-raising day in new york city back in june. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven, we’re at the marriott marquis in new york city. My guest right now is scott barnett and scott’s conversating scots seminar topic is the art of conversion got his director of web communications at fairfield university and has a diverse, extensive background, both academia and business again the art of conversion scott barnett welcome to the show. Thank you, tony, for having me your conversion what we converting well website users into donors in this case, or visitors or sales or people that visit your site you want tohave him either tour visit, talk to you, contact you because the sites can manage and collect information on them that we can’t do with other mediums. Okay, now at fairfield university, i assume the web users are mostly alumni. Well, mostly on the admission side, forgetting students for this is the admissions of the things that make things go around. Are basically students first. Okay. And then after that, alumni and donors and the public is, well, you know, most colleges have a pretty strong athletics presences. Well, so you get a diverse set of visitors, including than your faculty and staff, that come to the site and your current students. So we’ve got to take that multitude of audiences and sort of track what they do on the site for the different purposes. And then we have clients, so to speak, in our agency model that we work with at the university that have different needs, admissions has one needs, advancement, has a different need for their users, and athletics has another new let’s talk about the younger people that so you have to engage seventeen year olds on the seventeen, eighteen year old earlier than that, actually. Okay, how early is thirteen? Which reality? By law, you can’t collect information about anyone under the age of thirteen anyways, online, but and that’s the copper act. Okay, we basically and let’s not let’s be clear here. People were not collecting information about you. Tony martin martignetti too old. Yes. If you’re not interested in somebody there’s not anything personal about you until you give that up. Meaning fill out a form or or our donate or do something that actually collects that information. But the mere act of visiting the site and moving around through the site is anonymous other than by i p address on other information that then is gleaned from that i p address. But khun tell the generally the part of the country you’re from the provider that you came through and that information’s helpful. But we really want to know is where did you go? On the site. When did you leave us? Did you make it to the point on the site where we wanted you to? So you set up goals and you try to convert them to finish those gold. Okay, we’ll get we’ll get to that part once they get to their. But how about engaging let’s? Talk about the sixteen tio, eighteen year olds. How are you attracting them, too? Fairfield allusions that’s the magic ball. Okay, we’ll share some shares. We presently just put up a very interesting online tour. Now. Everybody’s got their online tour in the college business and it’s usually a state and proper voiceover narration. Nice voice like yours or someone speaking about all the beautiful pictures and great academics and great athletics and all the other things we have and we’ve got a lot of that on the site, but we decided to make a tour that really spoke socially from the students to the students. So through the eyes of a student, we created a siri’s of videos of them waking up in the morning, going a class a typical day in the life. Okay, so so the lesson is and tell me if i’m oversimplifying, but you’re attracting people of a certain age by using people close to that age. Oh, sure tracked them. We, while we want to direct the campaigns that we wantto have the kind of creative ideas it’s it’s proven in today’s internet world that there’s a sort of peer-to-peer conversation going on. We see that all over and letting them speak to each other about the experience of being the student speak to other students, you know what their interests are, and whether this place is right for them. Because it’s a big decision to go to college and it’s really important for students to pick the right schools. We want him to pick us, but we also want them to be getting the right information. So the adults in the room, so to speak. I have lots of good information to put out there, but we also want them hearing information from their peers on dh that’s. Why we do things like this and believe me, it’s it’s slightly reality tv but there’s no magic buy-in the box it’s it’s segments in the day that we’ve selected arika and such but they’re presented from through the eyes of a student. And then after you have the student now at the site, how do you keep them engaged and coming back again? That let’s say sixteen to eighteen year old right seldman you know the public site on the dottie? Do you side is really a marketing vehicle to get people information about the school about our news and our events so there’s a lot of information on a one particular site of students for one one that’s really in tone and approach about them. We also created a space called fairfield live, which is a social media, a space where that we post videos have a weekly announcement video that’s done by a couple kids from the campus about what’s happening that weekend again the idea peer-to-peer conversations and try to get them coming backto find out about events both through four one one in fairfield live the potential admit e our potential applicants is brought into some systems we have where they then become a contact, you know, and in that sense, we developed them as a prospect. And that there’s a lot of communications that happened back and forth between the parents and the student and the admissions department, both in person. The biggest, best indicator for kids going to college state is their campus visit. So you really want to convert them to contacting you and showing out coming out, coming live right? I know a big part of your seminar topic is using google analytics track how you’re doing and part of what you say and the materials is don’t be afraid of mountains of data. So how? How so understanding that the audience for the show is small and midsize non-profits which fairfield may or may not fit into could be a mid sized mid size too large right in the college, right? That’s what they bite-sized so what? What’s your sort of opening advice for using google analytics and not being overwhelmed by it? Well, it has more than enough data for you to spend your time hiring people to sit there and call through data, but it’s really drilling down, tow what’s useful to you and you create goals and objectives for any piece of communications and the internet. You know what? Before we get into that, how would someone just get started with google analytics? How do you how do you find? Oh, yeah, i’ll let you get yourself a gmail account, you have that, and they they might have relaxed that, but you get a gmail account, you visit google dot com slash analytics and then you sign in and then you’ve got an account you then need to set it up for your various domains. So in our case dot e d u plus all of the sub domains, the various departments and things underneath it that we find interesting. Good that’s. Helpful. Thank you. Chart, please. So the data itself, you know, you can really really get lost in the data google analytics, but the real key is understanding. What is your goal with the particular communications? You know, everything needs a little a pitch. Okay? And what? We need to be able to use analytics to analyze that pitch what’s working in that pitch and let’s say you created three four page experience on the site. You really want to be able to follow that user and find out why is everybody leaving on the third page and not making it to our contact page and buy the data itself is not useful to you unless you analyze and react okay and create that same communication cycle we know from the business of where you have tto basically communicate, get audience feedback and then change the communications to adapt to that that’s exactly the same thing going on here except the fact is, with the internet, we really can great the success and failure of certain types of campaigns and experiences on the web by having that tracking all along the steps of the experience and i think you have very good advice, too. Your date is only as good as your use of it and your reaction to it, right? You have to tweak, and it takes a lot of training. I mean, we’ve we’ve worked with some consultants, and we ourselves have sought out a lot of good, valuable training material on google analytics so that we could understand what’s going on and that’s just my department web communications. So then we went out and took all of our account managers in our division and trained them about the reports. What does the report mean when your client comes to you and says off, tell me how many people are coming to our website and how many are visiting, you know, our department, they know howto look at the data and not get lost in the multitudes of pages that aaron, google and alex just look, create the report they needed sabelo then sit down and discuss the conversions that are going on, what steps might be taken to adapt and change the material to make it more useful to caesar. Now, first again, for a small and midsize shop. Do you think the tools that are on google analytics alone are sufficient for a charity? Tio navigate this, this melon of data was collected. Do they have to have a consultant and training well, outside what google oppcoll google has a lot of it’s own training it’s and it’s. Very good. You know, we found it necessary to speak to a consultant because we really wanted to draw out of it a lot of different things, but i think that most companies can get in and at the level that it at any level and use google’s materials to get a lot of training and know how you got to spend the time with any software and that’s really what it is. This software is a service you’ve got spend the time on training, honor it’s a waste of money. Well, in this case, it’s no money. So it doesn’t cost you anything to do google analytics except your time. Tto learn a little bit about how you can use it. And i think that that’s the key there is that the the end user, whether it’s, a mom and pop shop running a little sight, or whether it’s, a big no uber university up there, everybody’s, cost conscious. And this way you’re getting something for free. That is got a wealth, wealth of data. It’s, really, how you look down through and decide, have i created goals of it, created objectives and my following those and whether you want to know if someone from you, becca, stan, came to your site or not, you could do that, too. But you can’t be wasting your time if that’s, not your target customer. They didn’t even think that shooting getting, thinking, you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. Nothing. You could. Xero looking to meet mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your car relationship as fulfilling as possible? Then please join us, starting monday, may second at ten am for love in the morning with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com talking dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. No. What about the standard social media facebook twitter again? Let’s, let’s focus on you know, i knew you were going well eventually, yeah, let’s focus still on the younger like this is interesting. I don’t get many guests were talking about engaging teenagers sixteen eighteen what what’s your advice for the small non-profit around? Well, you know, again the magic bullet is facebook’s overwhelming success in the last two to three years really made it imperative that you have some presence there, but you need to manage that presence and understand that everybody knocking on your door and saying, you know, all we need to facebook page for this, we need facebook page for that for each individual campaign or something that’s, not a good use of resource is when you’re a small ship does become unmanageable, and then you end up with a bunch of stale pages. It’s a sight that people have two contribute content is king okay with all of this and look and repeated repeated continual contact right now. But what we’ve seen there is, you know, you’ve seen some good reaction to causes on this social media. When people do cause related things, they do. Well, mom, i think i think this younger audience reacts to that us is a company and larger companies that are selling products, you know, i’m not so big on the i light, yeah, nameless brand of soda here that i or something so we don’t get in trouble, but the the point being, i’m not so sure that that, but i think today’s younger set doesn’t think the way we think about, you know, in terms of brand association so it’s a little different in that with juggling act you have to do, and i think non-profits obviously, mom, the kids are into causes, they are muchmore involved group i think we may have grown up thinking we were very involved, but i i didn’t do most of my charitable work until i was out of college, but i see a group of kids now from my school on up that are very usually, you know, there’s a good percentage and they’re involved in things so that’s appealing to their nature in social media about the cause rather than the give, i think, and not being the fund-raising professional in our organization, i won’t speak two, whether that’s scientific enough, but i’m seeing the trend be that they are attracted to sites that are about the causes and then from that i’m sure you get your able to glean and pull through the conversations you create some some charitable giving and giving of time. Sometimes what you’re looking for out of that group is volunteerism. Oh yeah, cause they’re so passionate, motivated, they will give generously of their time, but they’re on it all the time. And my test lab is the fourteen and sixteen year old i have at home, okay, who spend all their time on their phone and they’re computer on facebook sometimes to my chagrin, because it’s just kind of, you know, but but if that’s what they’re doing, you know, you need to focus your communications to them and not have it be the man talking to you and that’s. Why we’ve worked on this key peer-to-peer conversations looking at ways to engage students that work for us to to to speak to them, whether it be for a cause or whether it before something like advancement or admissions over athletics. We use students all of those levels in fact, our libraries facebook site is operated by a student, yes, the powers that be in the library there and sometimes push things out to them to put out there. But the conversations that are going on that’s the important thing about facebook and twitter is making it a conversation it’s not just boom boom boom press release and say we suffer from that sometimes to put them all out there, but we also want to get in there sometimes. And for instance, we introduced this year it’s it’s off the fund-raising topic, but if at our athletics games tweeting during the games and facebook during the games because there is a core of alumni out there that follow us out there, they might be in california, they’re not listening to the internet, cass, to the game or didn’t pay for the video of the game and they’ll jump in and have a conversation with us about it, and we look at that it’s sort of being colored guys, i said, imagine yourself sitting there and we’re having a conversation about the game because that’s what we’re not doing play by play, nobody wants twitter play by play, but we have a conversation about what’s. Happening, and i think we’re going to introduce that this year two different types of events, not just athletic and i think there’s value there for the audience, so your constituents who can’t be with you can follow and they’ve chosen that medium that’s, what they’re doing to follow you so it’s almost disrespectful in some ways to not give them some content besides just pushing at um, you know, like i said, press releases and other information, my social i don’t interrupt because my social media manager is here regina walton and she is live tweeting, right? Regina, we’re live tweeting to arouse who are not this second, but we are during the day giving them the contest. Not this second. Are you finding more penetration among teenagers? At twitter? There was a time when it was forty year fifteen over i also teaching in and that marketing class not now and then on the side and last year we asked him and said, hey, how many in the room are aware twitter? And this is their kids in marketing that we’re going to go into business and three hands went up, but now you won’t have four people. In your class is no, you’re not a very popular teacher now twenty five, twenty five but, you know, doing that part time, i was able to see that they were aware of it as a medium, but to them it didn’t hold much lustre. But now i’d say, just even six months later, that was just last, you know, two semesters ago, there seems to be a great interest in our student affairs department and other areas of using twitter because the immediacy of it and the ability to do it in one hundred forty characters or less appeals to both the presenter and the receiver, and i think that once they’ve caught on to that one hundred forty by the one hundred forty, okay, well, i want to stretch it out a little bit. Are you whether you want to be shorter, you know? You want it, you know, i wish i could do it in ninety nine, where most people meet me want me to do it? Ninety nine words or less. We’re gonna leave it there. I want to thank scott barnett very much. Fairfield university for being a guest. What? Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage. Of fund-raising day two thousand eleven at the marriott marquis scott, thank you for having me. Pleasure. That was my conversation with scott barnett from fairfield university on the fine art of conversion. I want to thank all my guests from the pre recorded interviews at fund-raising day this year, mindy dietz, karen pearl and scott that was a ll interviews from the association of fund-raising professionals, new york city chapter fund-raising day conference last june was great fun being there, and we’ll have more of those interviews for you in august next week, darien rodriguez haman we’re going to talk about his book non-profit management one oh one and the social media for non-profits conferences that he’s organizing throughout the country. My show is a media sponsor for the new york city conference on august fourth, so we’ll be doing speaker interviews there and bringing those to you and also, as i’ve said earlier today, welcoming jean takagi and emily chan to their first show, we’re going to talk about starting a non-profit preliminary question, should you? Because there are alternatives and if you do decide to start one, how do you do it? Gene is the publisher of non-profit law blogged, and emily is a frequent contributor to that site i look forward to welcoming them is regular contributors. Next week, you can keep up with all that’s coming up, especially in this anniversary year this anniversary month. Well, it’s one year, but the month is the one year anniversary. Sign up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page. Of course it’s, facebook, dot com and then the is the name of this show tony martignetti non-profit radio while you’re there, please, like us, become a fan of the show, you can subscribe and listen any time to the show on the device of your choice but that’s, computer, smartphone or tablet, go to non-profit radio dot net and that’s, our itunes paige subscribed there. The creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff, our line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz. Our experts. Social media is by regina walton of organic social media. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio always heard fridays one to two p m eastern right here. Talking alternative we broadcasts always on itunes hope you’ll join me next friday right here at talking alternative. Dot com. Bonem metoo you didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. E-giving good. 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