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Nonprofit Radio for July 17, 2015: Walk to Work & Keep Current After Launch

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Opportunity Collaboration: This working meeting on poverty reduction is unlike any other event you have attended. No plenary speeches, no panels, no PowerPoints. I was there last year and I’m going this year. It will ruin you for every other conference! October 11-16, Ixtapa, Mexico.

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My Guests:

Beth Kanter & Ritu Sharma: Walk to Work

(l-r) Beth Kanter & Ritu Sharma at NTC 2015

Beth Kanter and Ritu Sharma want you to make walking part of your work day. Not for a break. They share how to work while you walk, including walking meetings, and they swear you’ll be more productive, more creative—and feel better. Beth is a master trainer, author and blogger. Ritu is co-founder and executive director of Social Media for Nonprofits. We talked at NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN).

 

Farra Trompeter & Kira MarcheneseKeep Current After Launch

(l-r) Farra Trompeter & Kira Marchenese at NTC 2015

A website redesign is expensive, time-consuming and overwhelming. Starting on day two, how do you keep it current? Farra Trompeter is vice president at Big Duck and Kira Marchenese is senior director, digital strategy + platforms for the Environmental Defense Fund. This is also from NTC.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host we have a listener of the week, daniel trust in bridgeport, connecticut. He tweeted me that he just found non-profit radio and says good stuff, man he’s, our newest listener and our listener of the week i’ll send you a video, daniel, and you can pick a book from the non-profit radio library. Congratulations, daniel. Trust oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with prayer ago if i had the itching idea that you missed today’s show, walk to work beth cantor and re to sharma, i want you to make walking part of your work day, not for a break. They share howto work while you walk, including walking meetings, and they swear you’ll be more productive, more creative and feel better. Beth is a master trainer, author and blogger re too. Is co founder and executive director of social media for non-profits we talked at ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference, hosted by an ten non-profit technology network and keep current after launch. A website redesign is expensive, time consuming and overwhelming starting on day two. How do you keep it current? Farah trompeter is vice president at big duck and kira marchenese is senior director, digital strategy and platforms for the environmental defense fund that is also from ntcdinosaur on tony’s, take two. Have you seen my videos responsive by opportunity, collaboration, the working meeting, the unconference on poverty alleviation that will ruin you for every other conference from ntcdinosaur are beth cantor and re to sharma on walking. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage over the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen, hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. We’re in austin, texas, at the convention center and my guests are beth cantor, master trainer, author and blogger at beth cantor dot org’s. And also metoo sharma, co founder and executive director of social media for non-profits their workshop topic is walking is work. Don’t call it a break. Beth metoo welcome, welcome, thank you. Welcome back, beth, that has been on the show before you to his new welcome first time. Thank you very much with us. Metoo why? Why? Why should we be paying attention? Teo walking from my perspective, i’m an accidental walker, i think one hundred times better i started. Walking more extensively as part of my work, i’ve always been a walker, but as part of my work, i started about seven months ago and it was accidental because i got a new puppy and the puppy needed to be walked every three hours. That’s how it started with practical, it was very practical decision, but as i started walking, i needed to take some calls and then i started taking some of those calls on my and my box, and i found that i was paying a lot more attention. In those calls, i was not distracted by a number off social media pings and emails and other people entering in those conversations, i was really more present and then the other thing that i noticed, which is what started us making a lot more content at social media non-profits is, i am i started having a lot of ideas about different topics to write about different opinions on the current topics and that got me kick started is walking is work alright on beth, we shouldn’t if we haven’t fallen into it. Luckily accidentally metoo did we actually should be deliberate about it on dh we have some research to back that up? Yeah, as a matter of fact, i know. I got into it. Actually. The right after the last time. I was on almost two years ago. Really? I went into my doctor and i got my cholesterol tested. You know, we’re getting there. We have to get our cholesterol tested. It was three. Ninety nine. You had cholesterol of blind ninety nine. Right, which is closer to the mike. You get too excited. Okay, you know, three hundred ninety two and healthiest on one fifty or less. Right? So i decide to get walking. You know, obviously, i was not eating too many cheeseburgers, and i was sitting at my desk and i could see that you know, the house effects. So i bought one of the use of health. Fitbit. And i got out there and i started walking and writing about it before i knew it. I was walking twenty thousand steps per day, and it became this little game. How could i work? Work it into twenty thousands, like double the thie average. Ten thousand ten thousand. I’m up to now ten miles a day. Yeah, and you know what happened? My cholesterol went down to ninety nine my trig lyssarides, but something else happened. I noticed i was more president, i could pay attention and i was happier and more creativity. And so what would happen is i got really excited about this, and i’ve been blogging about it. I’ve been doing workshops, i’ve been kind of this evangelist for walking as work was people would say to me, how do you fit this into your day? You know? And and the mindset is really about, like, ok walking it’s the separate thing it’s for exercises for the health benefits, but really, i think it’s key to your productivity, we know we know something about walking versus sitting while we’re while we’re working, don’t we? Yes, we dio slideshare well, think about how much time you spend sitting at work. The average person spends nine point three hours sitting that’s more than we sleep, which is seven point seven hours and you know what all that sitting is doing to our bodies and our minds? Well, it’s, physically it’s collapsing our spines, it’s collapsing our spines it’s causing calling cancer it’s calling, causing heart disease brain fog, neck problems muscle generation, you know, it’s enough to make you want to stand up your desk, head to the door and never come back to your office. But you don’t have to do that. You know, you just need to start to think about ways to integrate movement into your work, okay? You know, maybe it’s, first of all, change your mindset, it’s thinking about different ways that you can start adding more steps, more walking, you know, park the car far this away from the door. We’re gonna get to all that time together. We’re still the motivations thing, okay? The motivation so obviously health reaches say more about the creativity. I know that was really important to you. I think when we are in close spaces and spaces, every normally sitting at nineteen hours a day, our mind gets closed almost. It only sees what we have in front of us. It becomes very reactive. It’s just reacting to emails that are coming in phone calls that are coming in and putting off fires. When you get out of that stunning and you walk in the nature, you walk in the grass, you walking the party, it doesn’t matter where. You walk when you start moving a little bit, your your brain starts to disengage from a reactive mode to a much more proactive and creative more, and what i’ve noticed for me is some of these things come to me, they’re like brilliant pieces isn’t incredible. I wrote a couple block post that we had the males traction ever, and i was just walking the dog. You know what? You have the most traction traction ever in our in our work, and those entire pieces were conceived while walking i just idea hit it, and i started flashing it while i was walking in and i came back, you had granted out in twenty minutes, and we’ve seen most likes shares, comments and really some great pieces that have come out of walking. So from a creative standpoint, i find the reason behind that is that you get a distance and you’re not constantly just addressing a pressing problem anymore. You’re able to actually give your mind a little bit of brake to process all the stimulation, all the stimuli and act activities and all the information that we were exposed to, in fact, over exposed to we have a time to process it, we have a time to just put it in different places where it belongs, and then start to see greater trends and start to see how this piece fits with some of the other stuff we’ve done. And if you’re in a reactive in front of your computer mode, you just don’t have that create this space to a process i know time is constantly belongs to other people as e mail comes in, and as much as we’re supposed to, i know a good practice for email is only react to it a set number of hours a day or set time today, but that’s very, very hard to do, and you end up being all fragmented and distracted constantly. Exactly. And, uh, the other thing is going to get a flow going way also have these phones that are full of notifications, any ping you get any tweets, you get any tax message, you get all the e mails there, these things that were changed, you know, technology. While it can be a great, great accelerator, it can also hold you back and hold you in chains because you’re constantly attacked on your head? Yeah, go ahead. Back-up let’s, go say this sort of gets us away from the topic about walking his work, but the with the walking does physiologically in your brain. Is it it’s fire synapses, you know? So if you were to look at there’s actually, researchers that are looking at the impact of movement on the brain and so if you look at a brain of a person who’s been sitting for twenty minutes, it’s all dark, okay? And if you look at a person’s brain, you know, doing a brain scan after a twenty minute vigorous walk it’s all lit up because the endorphins are flowing, connections are being made, and then we hear, you know, the proof of it from what metoo was talking about. And it’s also been proven in a number of studies. I think the most famous one has come from stanford, where they actually studied. They measured creativity of people who took walks, a brisk walk at lunch and creativity improved. Andi, just to make it explicit. We’re talking about walks without your phone or it’s turned off. Maybe you know you’re not you’re not allowing the distractions of your mobile device. While you’re walking, unless you use it to take notes. Okay, take note, but that’s you gets you in putting. Yeah, but metoo it sounds like you’re saying, you know, we don’t we’re trying to eliminate these distractions and also be vigorous in activity that’s true and when you’re walking it’s kind of hard to be as attached to a phone without tripping or knowing where you’re going, so i usually just go have it handy with me. Should there be an emergency that really needs me. But unless it’s an emergency, i actually have it handy if i need to answer a call or something. But for the most part, it’s. Hard to be that attached. As as you are in an office, i see people in new york city giving it a go, though yeah, there they are walking and lots of walking and texting, but but that’s not what we’re talking about here know what we’re talking about here is turn off the yarn device and go for a walk damaged overhead. Clear, clear your head. Don’t go further than that. Yeah, i think is notorious for the f word on non-profit radio a long time ago. But its memories linger. You know, world leaders. You know, obama is really famous for taking walks, steve jobs and, well, there’s a rich history of of of walking as work. I mean, think about like charles dickens. Did you know that he walked twenty miles a day, twenty miles a day? He hated being tethered to a desk. And on gina freud? No. Okay. Freud and analysts, you know? Yeah, they said, and their patient lies on the couch. But he’s fate, he was famous for walking with his patients to get to breakthroughs. I know, i know. A famous stander we stood on his desk was donald rumsfeld. He did not have a traditional desk. He stood as he worked. Now i don’t do politics on non-profit radio, so maybe that’s a counter example. Wait. Decided either way, but i know he, uh he stood and that’s that’s, that’s something that you were suggesting that you, khun, stand and work aside from walking, but standing versus sitting, yeah, standing desk. And, you know, other researchers come in, you know, it used to be okay. Go the jim. You know, i go the gym so i can sit on my backside for eight hours and i won’t suffer those how harmful health effects, but you know what? It doesn’t matter whether you’re at the top of your game physically, you still can reap the harmful effects of sitting. So what some researchers recommended this comes from the mayo clinic is the twenty eight, two. So every twenty minutes, if you sit, you work, you concentrate, you get up and you stand for eight minutes and two minutes stretching. Really? And that the idea, the mind shift is that you sit to rest your body from standing. Uh, okay. Rather than sitting being the focal. Yeah. Focus of the day. Yes. Okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g. Before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Okay, we got you. Sometimes it can be hard to follow structures like that one that i think is very worthy. And i use it in a different way. If you’re starting out and your tender session tomorrow. Are you here today and you inspired to do that? What i would recommend doing is doing something that i’ve done is pomodoro matter-ness it really allows you to set these intervals. If you just rely on your own free will to help you do this, sometimes it can be hard to create habits. They take about ninety days to form habits for something to really gel into your daily life style change at the very least, so well you may want to do is look at things like pomodoro, matted and you can and you can design that for me. It’s every twenty five minutes of sitting, i get a five minute break and then after two or three of those, i get a twenty minute walk and and that actually forces you and it’s. Incredible, you’re doing this in your day to day work day today i have a knife in you two so obviously i do want your day. Well, i do it. Yes, it is. And i do it slightly differently. I not only measure my time in increments body also measure my energy and my ability to concentrate. And i try to design my schedule so the tasks fit my ability to concentrate and always working in these smaller chunks. I do things like i do it a slightly different method of pomodoro. I’ve experimented with paula joran for a couple of years, but there’s no place pomodoro. We call it pomodoro. Yes, it’s tomato in italian because that’s the reason it’s called this because it came with an old tomato timer. And so and time yeah, you set up for twenty five minutes. And originally the context for it is that if you’re overloaded like this, you’re going to suffer consequences of procrastination and work avoidance. So pomodoro is a method for you to like eat that frog in the morning and just start get something done metoo ago you were you were sharing. I really enjoyed that. Because what i do is i get teo something i take take a project with twenty, twenty five minutes. And then even if i’m in the middle of doing this. I take a five minute break and i actually either stretch or ideo pushups or i just do a plank. And i tried to increase my duration for that. And then that’s sort of every two or three generations. And then i go and take a walk. And i will tell you that in the last year of doing that, the days that i do mamatoto matted very religiously are the days that are that i can get in one day over two weeks worth of work. And i’ve tested it several times now. In what amount of hard work in one day you feel you could do the same as you would have. That’s a maze in the dark days into weeks? Yes, including i even fit some laundry and folding some laundry in between weeks in a day? Yes, there’s. A lot of reading time. What i found is there’s a lot of closure. I want to do things that i actually make a big list before i take on a pomodoro day. Actually, you know, i make a huge list of things that i need to absolutely get done in a night. That’s my weak. Leaders and i’ve tested it several times. Normally i will be able to hit three or four or five of those because there’s so many reactive thinks about when i’m in the pomodoro matter mode, i basically check things off age of and the forced break no matter where you are in the process, it really prevents you from going into procrastination from reading one block post that takes you into another block post that takes you into yet another blood pools and that takes you to facebook and then to twitter. That doesn’t happen on pomodoro for me at least, so i would just recommend experiment with finding whatever is right for you not just mattered that works for me, but what works for you and use some technology to hope you get in the mode don’t just rely on free will to follow this palm adores it’s really not about like trying to get everything done and taking it off your to do list, but really it’s about focus and training your attention as somebody who has been doing the technology for twenty years or more like i’m like i was like that dog and up, you know. Doug squirrel. Oppcoll you know, so i consciously this about seven or eight years ago, like, trained my attention, like like i have on ongoing dialogue with myself on my opening up, another taba, my following, another social thread. And is this the task or something i should be doing? Would be doing is the best use of my time in this room, right? The eighteen minutes a day method with david berkowitz? I don’t know. What can you can you summarize it? Sure you spent. Okay. This will change your life. A change mine. And i’m right. That’s. The only reason i finished my second book. Okay, like changes. Okay, so, it’s, five minutes in the morning, you write down. What are the two or three things that you need to have done? What? Your priorities. And you reflected five minutes on the end of day. Did i get to my priorities? And then throughout the day, every hour on the hour, you beat yourself to remind yourself, am i on task? Okay. And what? Your set and you would think, it’s counterintuitive that you’re beating yourself? You’re distracting yourself, you know? Would you get distracted? Bring yourself to a center to a center center of the focus for that day. Exactly. And then you if you do that over a period of time, it really according to cubby takes what is it? Twenty one days to make a habit. Then you’ve internalized it and then used it stops beeping and you’re focused. And this helped you finished your second book? Yes. Okay. The two of you have great outcome stories. Really terrific. Impact of love. We still have some more time together. What have we not shared that we well, did we cover getting yourself out of the culture of sitting through the pomodoro method? Or so are very any variation of that. Is there maura around? Well, what? We started with this. Okay, so if we think divide this topic into the i and the weak. So we i think we have covered the you know, what do i have control of in my work life that i can change? Ok, ok. But many of us work in organizations and with other people. And we work in a culture where there’s lots of meetings. Sure. And the culture around those meetings is to sit. Yeah. All right. So that’s the challenge. Okay? We’d like to have walking meetings? Yes. Okay. And now you’re doing this tomorrow at twelve. Thirty and we’re gonna talk more about what we’ll bring it back to the office setting. I’ve forgotten, but just tell us what you’re doing tomorrow. Twelve. Thirty go ahead, return. We have a session tomorrow at ten. Thirty to twelve, where we’re going to talk about walking his work when we lay out the framework and then we’re going to take a big walk around twelve thirty with a number of conference attendees and give them an experience of discussing a specific topic while they’re on a walk with a large group. So they get to actually experience how to have a meeting while they’re walking out standing. Do you know what the topic is? Where you’re going? Decided in the session for the topic for the war. Walking comes for the ten. Thirty meetings. They’re going to be talking about planning a walking meeting. Okay, on our meat up, it will be open. It’s over that people choose what they want to do. Okay, are there all right, so let’s, bring it back to the office now. How can we help the the sitting meeting culture? Teo, get out of that. Well, you know, it’s interesting, because sometimes first of all, i think there needs to be some education around the links to workplace productivity and workplace wellness and that, you know, it isn’t a break. It really is important to productivity. And then this is not a zest your topic right at sung his work exactly. Don’t call it a break, right, it’s not like it’s not going to the gym and it’s not goofing off. Okay, okay, you’re really getting work done. So the next thing is to think about what? What are all the meetings in your life? And think about what could be done as a stand? You know, as a meeting, you know, walking, meeting and it’s. Probably best to start with a one on one meeting. Maybe a weekly meeting with your supervisor, maybe jet or somebody who reports to you and suggests that, you know, bring your sneakers to work. And you do that. Weiqing meeting as a walking meeting and maybe institute is the standing meeting ifyou’re going tio do a meeting with more people requires a little bit. More planning than a regular meeting in addition to the agenda, the purpose. Any pre reading you have to think about what your route is. You have to time the route. You have to be prepared if there’s bad weather, you know, we’re going to walk inside. You have to let people know to bring the right shoes at where their coats if it’s going to be cold and then you had to sort of make some modifications in the way that you take notes, people are you know, maybe this meeting is one where you’re discussing something. And the only thing you need to take down is the decisions as opposed to being in a meeting where you need to be looking at a lot of papers and a lot of yeah, tasking people on dh specificity, you know, okay, but you can take notes. You know, you can remember those things called pens paper. I’ve heard of them, you know, a most skin and can also now is it violating anything? If if if i suppose i get tested with something in our walk and i have my phone and i do a voice note to myself is that okay? Yes. Yeah. No, i’m we suggest a little side convo. Just we’ll just wild just for myself. Okay, so, like, well, one good thing to do in a walking meeting with a group is not to do. They spend the whole meeting walking and discussing like, you always have a little space of time at the end of the meeting to, like, summarized what the delivery bals are. And maybe you do that when you get back into the conference room. Okay, you know, and and and do that for note taking and people are fresh. Endorphins have been flowing and remember them, you know, another way to get started. It’s a little bit easier than the walkie meeting is a standing me kayman okay, we take this in increments, maybe. Yeah, depending on the culture and how willing your supervisors are to participate in your colleagues, they will do it incrementally. Yes, right. Standing, baby sitting half and then standing house, you know, crawl, walk, run, fly, ritu anything? Well, sure, i’d say that. Take it slow. Take it according to your culture and find different ways to do it. And there’s one common criticism, i hear. When we talk about walking his work, well, we have so many things we can get it done, it’s, like when you’re taking this on, start slow to start with one or two meetings and see how you’re doing don’t try teo enforce the really big culture change, you know, from the beginning do little things. Hey, do you mind when we do these meetings that we do the first portion of introductions and check ins? And when we’re reporting in what our week was like and what we’re doing, do that and maybe in a walking session and come back and take some notes as that just recommended in coming back? So find those the other couple things i would say that i have personally done that have been really helpful in and coming with from a change of culture in our organization is my default for all meetings is walking meeting now if you want time with me, it’s a walking meeting unless there’s a compelling reason why you can’t be so on. My default is no longer let’s sit down for coffee at starbucks my default is hey there’s, a park next to my office you want to meet, then let’s talk. And if somebody has an objection like, well, how are we gonna take notes again? I go back to now abets famous line. Have you heard of those bill old things called pen and a little pocket most qin and the other thing i’d say too. And the way i work with it, it’s, you know, walking meetings or subset of overall good meeting practice, and i would also talkto leadership and ask, don’t don’t you want more effective meetings in your organization? What if you were able to replace ineffective meetings that waste people’s time with meetings that are highly productive and that makes people feel great and get work more even more work done in less time when you want to do that. And that should really try it. Yeah, let’s. Try it and see you at least try. Okay, we got a couple more minutes. What have ah, not asked you yet about this. That, uh, you want to you want to share? Get a couple more. If i can cheer when quick thing. The second thing that i do besides defaulting to walking meetings is i do not take any phone. Call unless it’s absolutely necessary sitting down and that’s a very easy switch to make. Just grab the phone and start pacing, you know? Yeah, i’ve been doing that for years because i’m a kinesthetic learner, so it teach me it just helps me if i move, i think better and just and i found that if i’m like, when i wasn’t standing for phone calls, i’m sitting at my desk, checking my email and getting distracted, so standing walking on and also i think i want to emphasize to people, you know, i got started with this web stuff in the early nineties, and i had our side by the nineteen, ninety five repetitive stress is right, and one of the things i learned there was about stretching and taking this break, that it’s really important, and sometimes we get so addicted and where were you know, we use our computer keyboard is a lunch train, and we don’t get up because we think, you know, we’re not getting work done. So the one thing i would leave people with us really think about what you’re doing to your body and what you’re doing to your mind and don’t think of it as wasted time and trust us. You’ll be more productive and you’ll be happier. Absolutely okay. Productivity, creativity. Good health. Good. Reduced cholesterol. Substantially it’s. All it’s. All excellent. All right, we do anything you want to wrap up with. No, just thank you for the opportunity and happy walking, everyone. Yes. All right. Get out there and do it. Metoo sharma is yes. Is co founder and executive director of social media for non-profits and beth cantor, master trainer, author and blogger walking is work. Don’t call it a break. Listening to and joining with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen. Thank you so much for being with us, ladies. Thank you. Great thanks to you. Pleasure twenty steak too, and keep current after launch are coming up first opportunity collaboration it’s an unconference in x top of mexico in october for everyone working in poverty alleviation, there’s a lot of free time to meet the non-profits from around the world that are there, who you can learn from and who can help you do your work wherever it is you’re working it’s over ninety three percent sold out i’m going to be there? I got my reservation in if you are helping those who live in poverty, check out opportunity, collaboration, opportunity, collaboration, dot net, i have over one hundred seventy videos on youtube. There are dozens of conference interviews, all the conference conferences where i’ve interviewed speakers on topics like fund-raising events, marketing, communications, technology, board relationships, lots of board topics, the non-profit radio knowledge based videos are there everything i’ve done on plant e-giving and charity registration? My stand up comedy clips are there, too. My channel is riel r e a l tony martignetti and there’s also link from tony martignetti dot com to the youtube channel and that’s tony’s take two for friday seventeenth of july twenty eighth show of the year. We’re pre recorded this week, but you know how sincere i am in sending live listener love if you are one of the live listeners today, thanks so much for being with us live listener love to you podcast pleasantries wherever you are, whatever device washing dishes or otherwise, whatever it is you’re doing pleasantries to the ten thousand over ten thousand podcast listeners and affiliate affections to everybody listening on those am and fm stations throughout the country. Our affiliate network. Thank you so much for being with us. All our affiliate station listeners. Here are farrah trump, peter and cura marchenese from anti seizure keeping your website current after launch welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen we’re at the austin convention center austin, texas with me now are farrah trump, peter and kira marchenese sarah is a vice president for big duck and kira is senior director, digital strategy and platforms for the environmental defense fund. Sarah sarah, welcome, welcome you welcome. Thank you. It’s. A pleasure to have you both here. Let’s. Start let’s. Start with you. What are what are non-profits not really planning around enough when they do a web redesign or maybe even a launch. Everybody gets so excited about having the new site that it’s like you bring home your brand new car and you never think about putting gas in it, much less getting the tires changed or oil put in it. And so what we focus on our session focus on in our session is all of the things that you do need to keep track. Of after you’ve brought home your shiny new website and concrete tips on how to do so, uh, what are what are some of the things that you’ll be talking about? Just tick off a few topics. How does stretcher resource is further so that you can fit more smart updating in you in your regular schedule? We’ll talk about structuring your sight to minimize the need for updates, and we’ll talk about how to keep yourselves accountable and make sure that you actually do the updates that you’ve planned on doing. Okay, farrah anything i think you want to add at this early stage, just that i think just to build on this care and i did a session three years ago at the ntc twenty twelve called is a time to rethink your website, and that session was all about, you know, first, starting with a clear understanding of your goals and audiences before you go and change the design change, the content changed the technology, wait a really great conversation with staff and everyone and non-profit staff consultants who attended and we’ve since done it and other conferences, and it spread a lot of good thinking about do i rethink my sight? So i have to completely overhaul it? Are there incremental changes i can make? Well, we realized, as we were sort of reconnecting on this topic recently was again a sort of cure was saying there’s, so much energy put into building a site, you know, redoing your sight can take six to nine months for some organizations a year, and then all of a sudden it launches you like great done seeing three years check off. Exactly, and what we have found is especially, you know, your your website. Still, even the web sites have been around for over twenty years. It still is the one of the main places supporters will go to find information about you, and it is important that that site represents who you are and what you’re about on also is somewhat current with user experience and what people are looking for in a basic website so responsive, for example, on other things, and and that means that your sight’s still has to be dynamic. It can’t be a brochure, so if in organizations made it past this idea that their website is not a brochure that step one but i still, even though that happened let’s say, non-profits and organizations got that over ten years ago. And, you know, our website needs to be engaging. Great. I still think that there are lots of non-profits out there. They build their sight, they set up the information, they walk away from it. So this idea of this session is how do you keep that site current and think about it being a living, breathing representation of your organization and a way to connect with your community beyond that launch button day. Okay, care. I see you nodding a lot. So total agreement, your did this three years ago. So you know, the beginning of this three years ago, this is this is this is the sequel, and this is how we’re keeping it current. Okay, this is the electric boogaloo part duitz. Yeah, exactly. Remember that break in electric boogaloo? I don’t know, eighties. Um, okay, so, let’s, stay with you. Ah, farah what’s your wee. Where should we start with this? Start this process. Well, karen mentioned stretching resource is further. Is that is that a good place for us to start? Yeah, i mean one of the things that we often hear when we say, well, wire websites not kept up to date or wire people, you know, aside from this feeling of okay, it’s changing a belief, certainly that i do have to think about my sight beyond launch, but more than that, we always get this conversation that, well, i don’t have enough time. I’m busy getting the next email out, i have to worry about my fund-raising campaign, we’ve got all this advocacy, this petition, we’re running, so everyone sort of caught up in the day to day their communications that they want the website to be on autopilot. Eso what we’re really looking at is, yes, we know you don’t have enough staff time, we know you don’t have enough money, what are some things you can do once we get past that acknowledgement? And so we’ve got a lot of suggestions about how you can, you know, take those limited resource is and be smart about you want people to stop saying we can’t way have this other stuff, so we’re just gonna throw up our hands and website just we’ll have to suffer exact what can we do with the limited? Resources that we do have exactly. Okay, exactly. Xero what can we start to do? Well, the first thing that you can start to do is evaluate what resources you have and how much you need, and so we’ll go through ah quick little math exercise on our site. We have about one hundred pages that need some kind of maintenance there, not a press release or a block post that has a date on it, and nobody ever expects those to be updated. We’re talking about the page, the about us, paige, our privacy policy pages about certain projects that were working on those need a little bit of care and feeding, and one of the first things you do is you say, well, if i’ve got a hundred of those and i think it’s going to take a couple hours of time, tio, get each of those updated one hundred times a couple hours that works out to five weeks of solid work time in is that reasonable? Do you have five weeks? You know, some organizations do and that’s great, and they’re a head of a lot of the rest of us, but a lot of us. Will say, oh, in two hours, that’s really not enough to update this page because i’m going to have to talk with the program’s staff who managed this manages the project, and then they’re going to have to approve the changes that i make and all of a sudden you’re like, man that’s, eight hours so that’s one hundred days and you know, where am i going to find that hundred days? So the in a lot of organizations, you never have that conversation, and you just have an out of date website in a stressed out staff. So the first thing that you can do is try teo, get it? Well, why’re we stressed out, is it because we don’t have enough help? And maybe we can hire a temporary writer to help us? You get on top of this, or have we just really taken on more than we can handle? And we need to reevaluate how many pages we have on the site. So if we can find a concrete place to start that conversation, we can start solving the problem you have in one of the things that we were talking about is like, what does? Your website being out of date really look like so that could look like everything from your board listing just doesn’t you know, you added somebody on the board two months ago, but they’re still not listed on your site so that’s kind of a minor out of date. But one of things that drives me crazy is when i go to an organization’s website and i see, like, save the date for her upcoming conference in december twenty fifth eleven but i mean, maybe that’s a little exaggerated, even last a month out exactly. And it’s like no, come back. You know, the next day i should see conferences from the pictures from the event i should see what happened. I should see the tweets, the storify, whatever it is. But i think when organizations say, like what’s new and you go to the what’s new page and it’s talking about things from six months ago again your donor, your activist, your participant is going to think you’re not keeping things up, and then they that will actually impact your reputation. So, you know, at big duck, we think a lot about your brand, so so our angle on a lot of this is hacking you your user website as a way to really continue to build a relationship with your supporter. Your website. Visitor. Whoever that is and make sure that you have said, is just enhancing their perception of you and not eroding it. And so, you know, when your website is out of date, it will start. People won’t think they’ll think a lot less of you, it’s, like coming by to your office and see that there’s paint chipping on the wall. What else? Anything you want to add to ah, what kira suggested about howto evaluate what? What? What? The task is that’s ahead of us. Yeah, i mean, i think here is laid out of really thinks about it so smartly, which is why i love presenting with her we’ve a love fest, but i think not, you know, it’s great to think about what are the pages, how we maybe minimize those number of pages we have to keep up today, but then layering in again, this idea of goals and audience is coming back to that, which is saying, okay, let’s say there are a hundred pages we’ve built the site, i can’t change it, it is what it is. I only have twenty days and not one hundred let me then focus my twenty days on the twenty most important pages, and those most important pages were the ones that maybe get the most traffic are most critical to any initiatives you’re running and are really the ones that your audience are looking for. Not necessarily the page at the executive director of the board chair tell she was most important, which is another congressman, we’re definitely gonna get into the board and senior senior leadership, they have their opinions as well, but it becomes very difficult and even your own staff. You know, one of the things that we’ll talk about is that editors and writers really like making things that are new, and there i won’t forget the first time that my online writer realized that it wasn’t it she’s pushing the rock up the hill, and it comes rolling back down and she’s got to push it back up again. We got a page lunch and she had really worked hard on it, and it came out great, and i made the mistake of saying to her right after it launched like, oh, great! And then the next time we come back and revised this page, we can look into this bit of it, and we’ll have data about that and the look on her face, who’s, just don’t make me do it again. You don’t have to do that again. And so it’s, not just the senior executives who are pushing us to do things that may not be really what’s most needed no it’s, always fun to do something new and it’s. Not as fun to go back and redo something that you thought was done a year ago let’s probe this little deeper when we’re getting of suggestions from boards, senior leadership, how do we how do we manage that on anybody? When, when, when their suggestions are misplaced, right about priority? It all goes back to what sarah said about goals and audiences, and if you’ve built a strong understanding with all of your stakeholders about what your priorities are and how you’re going to connect with your audience is then it’s easier to go back to that is a foundation and you know, if you can say yes, i understand that this is important to you, and when we’ve when we look at what people are looking at, there is a mismatch here you khun service that and have that conversation with them if you haven’t reached that agreement, it’s a lot harder to shift that conversation later, and i think when they come to you and say we want to change its pages, ask questions, why? In who? You know, why do we need to change it on dh who really needs this page? Updated who’s looking for something new that’s not already on there and let me tell you a little bit based on those thinking about the wise and the who’s, what i think we should be focusing on now, at the end of the day, i could say all i want to say about that as a consultant, but you live in an organization, and sometimes you have to listen to the senior leaders, but i think you can at least try and have a strategic conversation as much as possible, and you can set the agenda as well. You know, we don’t wait for our senior communications executive to find a page on the website that he thinks need to be needs to be updated. We tell him here the pages that we’ve decided to focus on for the next three months and here’s what you’re going to get from it. And so by framing the conversation again, back to the goals and audiences, you can take more control of it. I’m being proactive with that, i think you know, the other thing i’m thinking about us were talking, and we spoke again a lot about this previously, which is, i think organization non-profits have to make the shift of thinking about their website as a program, right? So you know what i mean? Like so if you think about the programs you’re putting out in the world, whatever those those maybe whether they’re in person, whether their, you know, whatever services you’re providing, if you think about your website as a service you’re providing, then maybe the idea of giving it, you know, love and attention and care and feeding feels a little bit more comfortable. I think when people still think about their website as this, you know, printed, you know, like the statics for tools, the support tool, but not a living breathing mechanism that could help advance your mission and connect with people. That’s what we’re really talking about. Excellent. I love that love that idea think it seems very simple programs, and it is so fundamental reputation, right and reputation and brand that all sang like that we’re thinking about exactly let’s move teo structuring the site two to help to minimize updates who was firing? One continues, i’ll speak briefly, but i think here has a lot of great things to say here i think you know when it comes to when your first structuring your site it’s important to think about what are the priorities that my audience is looking for again? Not necessarily what i’m what the senior staff for any staffer looking for, but it really ask the questions if you have an existing site doing user testing, finding out really what the community wants from your website again thinking about it as a program, and then once you’ve structured the site, i mean again asking those questions that, you know, in six months from now on, we’re looking at all those pages we have to keep up to date how we done ourselves a disservice. Certainly i’m not saying you should build your sight in a way that it doesn’t have to be updated. I think it’s important again for that website to be a living representation of your organisation, but maybe minimizing the number of pages that might have to get those updates and think about, too. What are the pieces of the site that need to be time sensitive and need to be up to date if it’s the description of you know your mission around a particular project area that’s probably. Not going to change. And you should probably structure it in such a way that that part of the page is is evergreen. And there might be things around it that change. There might be a little news box next to it that has blood posts and press releases saying the newest things about that program. But if you don’t have tio embed it all together so that you have to rewrite the entire text, you know, every three months, you’re going to save yourself a lot of time. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. You must have other ideas about that physical structure around around timesaving go ahead, please. So another one is, and this one is a little harder to explain without the screen shot in front of me, but what we used to dio is, you know, every page had a bunch of sub pages, and anytime self they needed to be updated on one of the sub page you work on the sub page, it would be this longer, bigger piece, and then, you know, you’d have to go to the page that was above them and like you had all these updates in different places, and what we’ve done is just eliminate a lot of that, and so will have an overview page that has, again the evergreen overview of here’s, the work that we’re doing and why it matters. And then we’ll link off to a few more timely things, like a block post about it or a press release, some kind of statement or testimony, and when that piece ages, we just delete the link. And so we keep that high level overview of what we’re working on and why they’re little supplementary pieces of it that give you a sense of what’s going on right now? But we haven’t built it in the structure of the site. We haven’t created extra pages, we haven’t, you know, built it into the menu, and once you build something into the menu that’s really tough because if you have four things in the menu, every one of them has to be updated. But if you could just have an overview page that refers to for things, you give yourself a lot more flexibility. Excellent, excellent! You got more that’s, a that’s, a great one, i think that’s about it for a structure there. I missed anything. No, that sounds good. I mean, one of the other things i knowthis is neatly under structure that we talk about is sort of using the work that you’re doing another channel. So let’s say you’ve got this great instagram presidents or you’re really active on facebook or you’re tweeting a lot and thinking about how to embed or bring that content in as a way to keep your sight feeling dynamic and what’s the right places for those things. Where should that live on your site? How should it live on your site? That’s another thing that we have people think about, okay, so it’s possible to have more than just a little little box recently sent tweets exactly what more can we didn’t mean? You could just have the most recent tweet you could, depending on how sophisticated your twitter ah, you know your your twitter tweeting is if you use specific hashtags, you can connect those hash hoexter appear on specific program pages or bio pages if staff members are mentioned by name or by twitter handle okay, yeah, things like that so just being like taking it up a notch, being a little bit more sophisticated with how you bring it in, but while we’re talking structure let’s also go into deep structure, which is actually the platform that you’re on. And this is another part of website e i love that i asked you before you kind of threw up your hands and and then a man came back and now now it’s come back in a deep strike now we’re getting deep deep here throw this goes into the category of invisible ways that your sight can be out of date, you know you can come to my site and you can’t tell easily if i’m running word pet press three point seven or four point two, but it matters, and if you fall too far behind on those updates, you open yourself up to security risk as well as not being able to take advantage of the latest developments on your platform. And this is something that i think a lot of the content specialists just don’t have on their radar and it’s something that you need tio have a sense of how often your platform updates, which are the updates that are important for you to take advantage of and then work with your vendor or your in house team to make sure that, you know, you’re sticking to a schedule and you’re not falling too far behind. Yeah, i mean, i think websites have sort of two sides, right there is the front end, which is what the user experience is what the person sees, what they can tell is happening with the organization based on your site, then there’s the back end, which people love when i say back in, then there is the back and that’s where they’re headed, right? And, you know i think you think people are thinking that because i’ve had people say it’s, because your mind is in the garden sometime sometime, i here i am back in altum now, maybe i don’t i don’t have the same day, and my body studio is okay. So the on the back end of the website, we’ve got your content management system and your constituent relationship management system, and sometimes the cms sincere amour love lovingly integrated sometimes they are two or twenty different systems that are connected to your site, depending on how you have it set up and it’s important again to think about as a staff you’re worrying about how those things work in secures point, you need to make sure you’re paying attention to both sides of the equation s so that the site is not only again representing you well, but also doing all the work it can for you and and supporting your fund-raising your outreach, whatever it might be that you need those systems to be working well and up to the latest date of what they can do for you care. When we did an overview, you mentioned accountability keeping you’re keeping yourself accountable, what’s what’s this about. Well, once you decide that you are going to stick to a certain update schedule, i mean it’s like sticking to a diet, right who’s going to be able to do that completely on their own without any sort of reminders or accountability, some of us can, but most of us can’t, and i can tell you one thing that definitely did not work for us, which was having the systems and automated reminders, you know? Hey, tony, this page is out of date, you might want to check it out just became anxiety producers and it’s so easy to ignore them because the system won’t know if i don’t do anything about ignore exactly. And so one of the things that we found is that in order to hold yourselves accountable, you really need a person to be part of that and there’s usually somebody on your team or associated with your team in some way, who is going to be open to taking on that roll. And, you know, one of the things that i encourage people to do is figure out who that person is embraced that about them, you know, used. There, there their charm and organizational skills. Thank you. Fair lovingly nudging. Yeah, and you know that that’s going to be the person who has all the spreadsheets and gets really anxious when deadlines are approaching, you want that person sharing that that skill with the rest of your team? Because otherwise it’s just too easy, like farrah was saying in the press of all of your communications and email schedule on all of that to just let this thing that feels not as urgent slide, but, you know, you do that too long, and all of a sudden you have five weeks of work backed up that you could have been tackling a little bit like a project manager function. Okay, the other thing we talked about this is about accountability, general, with all sorts of things is the racy model? Do you know that the r a, c i so that stands for responsible, accountable consultant informed, and the idea is that at the start of every project, you think about those different roles, so for example, we may be accountable to the executive director, but they don’t need to know they’re not they’re not responsible for things. That they don’t even have to be consulted are informed they just want their they’re ultimately accountable. Maybe they have to be informed, but the communications director has to be consulted, and then the communications manager is the person who’s actually responsible for getting it done. So thinking about those different levels of where people have to weigh in so that you’re not, you know, waiting on this, you’ve got this long list of pages, you have to go through ten people thinking about people’s different roles on that accountability scale could be very helpful, okay? And then another thing that you can do in addition to getting a person involved is think about how you’re presenting to yourselves, the work that needs to be done. So, like i said, it doesn’t work to just have a system generated email land in somebody’s email box, and nobody knows it’s there one of the things that has worked for us is to do a chart and the amount of red on the chart shows how many pages have past their expiration date on the site and visual yeah, eso to share that publicly and then there’s a sense of sort of shared accountability like, oh, how did the red get so big? And i’ve actually had the editors say, wait, can we wait just a couple more days before we make the next charge? Theo? Yeah, exactly out of the rain. It looks so much better if we could just getting forty eight, forty eight hours. Yeah, exactly. And so figuring out what the right tools are to motivate and and get your people feeling the urgency about it, i think it’s going to be different for every organization that’s one that’s worked for us. All right? We still have another couple minutes together, like, another three minutes or so. What? What else do you want to share that we haven’t talked about yet? I mean, one of things that we sort of end the session on is that people should make a road map for themselves. What? What should they be doing? As you know, is a result of thinking about this. What do they think they need to do immediately? That might be doing a sort of friend and sweep of the site and figuring out like, oh, my god, we have that, you know, what’s new section that hasn’t been updated in two years or, you know, put out the immediate fire is the low hanging fruit, as we like to say, so make a road map of what do i need to do this week? This month? What do i need to do over the next six months? What do i need to put on a schedule for next year and just really plotting out? What did you and making yourself unorganized way to think about it cause there will be it’s like anything? Lots of anxiety around this issue? Oh, god, and it really is i was doing it wrong, or i’m worried about it, but just really just try and plan it out, map it out and think about where is the biggest thing you need to put your attention on with the resources you have, kerry wanna add anything? Just that this is never challenged, that anybody has completely conquered, and even though i’m up here, you know, sharing tips and wisdom that have we’ve come across our site is not up to date entirely, you know, we haven’t gotten rid of the red on that chart, it’s, very brave of you and well. I’m sure if you poked around hard enough, you could find something that was obviously out of out of date. So it’s also being kind to yourself and acknowledging that this is something that you’re going to be working on for a while. All right, we have to do a shout out. Tio sarah, sarah, durum who’s the cold herself president or ceo and president the grand poobah i call her the big big duck of big. Alright and today your birthday have hurt the chariots. March forth it is four. So happy birthday sorrow they sarah happy twenty nine. Yes, of course. And she’s been on the show. She’s wanted me to get you for some time now. Here we are. Here we are. All right. We’re gonna leave it there. Thanks for having us. My pleasure. Thank you very much. Kira farrah trompeter is the vice president? Maybe someday i don’t know. I don’t know. I like it. So it spread like vice president you do. Alright, vice president of big duck. They’re consulting agency thinks a lot about brands and reputation in new york city. I’d like to visit your office any time. And kira marchenese very good, thank you. I names are important. See she’s, the senior director for digital strategy and platforms at the environmental defense fund and again farah kira, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, stony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen at the austin, texas convention center thanks so much for being with us. My thanks always to everybody at inten the non-profit technology network loved being at that conference each year, and i’m sure i’ll be there next year. Also next week it’s our twenty fiftieth show next week we’ve got giveaways in studio guests all the regular contributors have a comedy sketch, live music, a new sponsor and lots more going on two hundred fiftieth show fifth anniversary of the show we’ve been doing this each week for five years be with me next week are two hundred fiftieth show july twenty fourth. If you missed any part of the two hundred forty ninth show, find it on tony martignetti dot com opportunity collaboration with world convenes for poverty alleviation it’s an outstanding unconference that will ruin you for every other conference it’s over ninety three percent sold opportunity collaboration dot net our creative producer is claire markoff. Sam labor, which is the line producer show social media, is by susan chavez, susan chavez, dot com and our music is by scott stein. Thank you, scotty, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Hey! What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. I took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe. Add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? 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Nonprofit Radio for June 20, 2014: The Logic Model & User Personas

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Cindy Gibson: The Logic Model

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Cindy Gibson, our grants fundraising contributor and principal of Cynthesis Consulting, goes into detail on this visual depiction of your outcomes and why funders are increasingly asking for it. And what’s the Theory of Change got to do with it? These annoy many grantseekers, but we’ll put your mind to rest. df

 

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Debra Sharp: User Personas

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What is a persona? Why are these fictitious people important to your website? How do you build them? Debra Sharp is digital director at Manifest Communications and we talked at the Nonprofit Technology Conference (NTC).

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent you know me, i’m your aptly named host and i’m very glad you’re with me. I’d suffer ankle oh, sing sponder leitess! If i learned that you had missed today’s show the logic model cindy gibson, our grants fund-raising contributor goes into detail on this visual depiction of your outcomes and why funders are increasingly asking for it. It annoys many grantspace occurs but well put your mind to rest and user personas. What is a persona? Why are these fictitious people important to your website? And how do you build them? Deborah sharpe is digital director at manifest communications, and we talked at the non-profit technology conference and tc on tony’s take to have you been paying attention to your state registrations in each state where you solicit donations responsive by generosity. Siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks. I’m very glad that cindy gibson is back. She’s our practice. Temic, she has a phd. Yes, you’re our practice. Temic. She has a phd and over twenty six years of experience with non-profits, she has led leader she has had. Leadership roles in several national foundations and non-profits. She was a non-profit times top fifty power and influence, sir she’s principle of synthesis consulting that c y en th e s i s and you’ll find her on twitter as at single bh si n g i b welcome cindy gibson. Hi, tony, glad to have you back. What’s this, so be here. Thank you, what’s, this logic model all about. Well, it’s, do you want me to say what it is we’re talking about? Well, tell us what it is, and we’ll get into what it’s about, i guess, okay, what is so logic model is basically just a visual depiction of what a non-profit or a foundation or any kind of organization is doing, why they’re doing it to what end? And then also outlines and stipulates a set of outcomes or out puts that the organization wants to see from those activities. It’s, it’s almost like a flow chart of hey, okay, a flow chart and why here? Why is this? Ah, well, yeah. Okay. Wireframe ders asking for it. Well, funders have been asking for logic models for a while. Um, and it’s it’s. You know, i can’t pinpoint the exact time, but it was about ten years ago. It really sort of first on the scene, this whole notion of a logic model. And then along with that came the phrase theory of change and sometimes those two things air used interchangeably. Um, for good reason. But for some reason the jargon, um, was unsettling to a lot of grant acres and looking at if you look at one of these flow charts, it can be very intimidating, and it can look very complicated, ah, and daunting and a lot of non-profits just didn’t see the value and spending time putting together this kind of this kind of structure, so there was a lot of pushback about it, and there still is some eye rolling, but i think gradually a lot of non-profits the ones i’ve worked with, most of the ones i worked with and for that i know of have actually found the exercise to be pretty helpful. Okay, now we’re in an increasingly visual society, so that could be a part of me were certainly on the web in social networks visual is ruling video is ruling, so that could be a part of what’s happening what’s happening here as well? Um, yeah, go ahead. Well, it’s also, you know, i think that it’s also that some of this workers we now in the sector and particularly lansbury’s, become a little bit more technocratic. Um and we know that the technocratic sort of they like their charts in the and there, you know, i had to say personally, when i see these kinds of charts. Sometimes my eyes glaze over a little bit because i don’t resonate with that. And i know that that’s a different kind of learning sometimes some people like that stuff, they learn from it very quickly when they see something diagrammed and deconstruct a bit others down. So again, that’s that can be very daunting to people still a lot of information in the one moflow chart, but some people it does really resonate. Yeah, and i actually i have actually a different reaction to it. You showed me an example of one, and we’ll have links will put links on the on the takeaways in the facebook page so people will be able to see these but the one you showed me, but i have a background in it, my back to my college days with information systems, and we usedto chart logical processes through ah, you know, ah, proposed information system like a sales system or an inventory control systems like that. So to me, it it actually helped a lot, but i could understand why somebody who’s not used to the visualization and the arrow’s pointing from one to the next could be a little off put by it so i can understand that. Yeah, all right, can i say that? You know, i think people what i do with ease and i think why i totally agree with you? I i think logically, and i like deconstructing things like that in my head. I think that you can do that in a way that doesn’t have to be, you know, into a chart necessarily you could do it in a narrative, but the concept behind it is the same, which is, you know, sitting there for forces organisations to sit there and be very clear, a doubt, their goals, and then what they’re going to do to reach those goals, what their strategies are going to be, and then how they’re going to measure that and very, very quantifiable in some ways and quantitative terms that really important and it’s it’s a really useful exercise because it really, really again pushes non-profits to be very clear about why they’re doing what they’re doing, and it can actually help them down the road, look at what they stipulated and figure out whether they’re on the right track as they go along, and if not you know how to tweet that it’s very, very clearly stated, okay, so so so it’s got value with your outcome is visualisation ah, visual model or a narrative there’s still value in it, but your point is, more funders are looking for the usual the visualization that’s sort of the flow chart. Yeah, and, you know, as a former funder and someone who works with a lot of funders, i still, um i think it’s a valuable exercise. And i should say, as an aside, i think it’s important to emphasize that this is not, you know, an exercise that non-profits just sit down one day and dio it’s something that takes time. It should take time. Um and it usually does, because once you get a group of people who worked for a nonprofit who are very different in some ways the board, the some of the stakeholders, whoever you want to have in this process, they’re all going to have different ideas and so getting consensus around that and then clarity in terms of what everyone wants to do and what they see is important and getting that down and nailing that down in a very structured way. Is not an easy or overnight task, so you could oh, i think when you send when i was a funder and a again, i it’s very helpful for me to see and know what that organization is doing, that everyone’s behind it, and then that’s going to be there sort of framework going for it’s just a very helpful tool for both the thunder and the organization. I think from a strategic planning perspective to perhaps sounds exactly on i was just going to say that a lot. It’s not a coincidence that, you know, this exercise has become almost during er and strategic planning. Now, i should say the flipside of that that’s not to say that non-profits have to spend, you know, five hundred thousand dollars hiring, you know, big consulting firm to do these kinds of there. There are people who make money on this. Um, well, i think it’s helpful, definitely toe have somebody help walk you through this and challenge your assumptions and put this together with you? On the other hand, i don’t think it has to be something that lasts for a year and costs a lot of money. A lot of this work and i can talk about this. I can send this to you and put the put these up in the length. There’s a lot of tools out there to help non-profits do a lot of this themselves, okay, we’re going to go out for a break a couple minutes and then send you and i are going toe talk in more detail about what the pieces of this are s so we’re not just talking about the the abstract, but already, okay, so stay with us. You didn’t even think that shooting getting, thinking, you’re listening to the talking alternative network, get in. E-giving good this’s, the cook said, wear hosting part of my french new york city, or guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back. French is a common language, yet they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them, shed their story, join us, pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p, m. Oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll dahna hi there. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Sorry, i can’t do live listener love today. We are pre recorded today, a couple of weeks early, but of course i send the live love. I just can’t do it explicitly. City by state, city, by city and state by state and country by country but live love live listener love to everybody who is listening live. And, of course, those pod class pleasantries always go out to the nine thousand people listening, wherever you are. Car treadmill, subway airplane pleasantries out to the podcast, listeners. All right, cindy gibson, let’s, get into this damn thing! Well enough abstraction. Now, andi let’s, let’s, hold off on the theory of change, which you mention because that’s a bigger that’s, a biggest little bigger subject. But aside from theory of change, which we’ll get to what? What belongs in our logic model. So this is important to this. Preface this and say again ah, sometimes it’s easy to get wigged out when you look at centre’s, funders have their own templates of logic model that they want non-profits to fill in so there might be they might. Ask for elements that you don’t necessarily have or have thought of if, for example, fill a couple years ago, i scanned about twelve or fifteen ah funders request for logic models for their grantmaker and then i also looked at different templates that were available to help non-profits do this, and they were all different, that there was really no standard. So so what i did was i actually just sat there and distilled some core components of logic model that i think everyone can use, and then you have that core and so that whenever anybody asks you for something different, at least you have that basis to work from, and the core is pretty straightforward and your goals long term goals, mid term goals, short term girls, sometimes people break those out that way. Other times people don’t ah, a theory of change, which you mentioned, which is something we can talk about later we will, which is what briefly it’s, just a series of if then statements about how your organization believes change is going to occur. Then there are objectives that you will stipulate that the, you know, basically what you want to accomplish through your work and how those will help you reach your goals. Um, the strategies that your organization will use and by strategies that can be anything from doing research teo. Advocacy to community learning to technical assistance. Those air strategies on ben. Finally, you get down to the activities, the specific things that your organization is going to do on the ground. You should also include a target population. Who are you targeting to either work with or work on behalf of who’s going to benefit from your work? Um, and then the the outcomes that you hope to see now i should say that a lot of funders discern make a designation distinction between outcomes and output. And there is a difference. Go home. Outputs are quantifiable numbers. Um, and outcomes are usually, uh, something that that results from those outputs, for example and output would be we got, you know, fifty children immunized in our community andan outcome of that would be that the rates of children contracting the disease decreased because the result thank you. That’s helpful example. Thank you, let’s. Go back to the to the goals you mentioned it’s. Sometimes done. You say long term. Medium and sorry, short term, long term in medium goals. What kinds of terms are we talking about? What’s, short, what’s short, mid and long. Well, you know, again, this is it varies. You know, some organizations are very explicit. Um, about and i think it’s easier for organizations that do provide pretty concrete services because they can say, you know, in ten years we’re going to be serving this many people it’s much clearer than it is, perhaps for organisations that doom or advocacy activities. But it really is up to the organization to decide that unless of your being asked by a thunder too, to be very clear about where you think you’ll be in ten years or five years, you know, it varies and short term generally i just sia’s, you know, over the next year ah, mid term is probably over the next three to five years. And then long term is, you know, the next ten to two whenever so that’s generally my rule that i use. But again, it’s very okay, let’s. Go let’s, let’s talk a little more about the strategies because the strategies air sort of the general leading to the specific activities. Is that right? Is that right? Yep. Okay, um, and you mentioned a couple strategies like research and community learning and, um, advocacy things like that. Um, do you do you break those out into each bye bye. Each goal. Do you have to do that by each goal? And instead of goals and objectives, or you don’t have to? Well, you know, again, it depends. I mean, i as my way of doing it is i actually start with goals. And then for each goal, i tried to have at least one objective, if not more. Ah, and then once you clarify those it’s pretty clear what you’re going to do in terms of strategies. Buy-in strategies don’t have to match up with each goal or objective, but it’s usually gonna work that way. You know, if my objective is to ensure that my state legislature, pat you know, passes x number of of provides funds for x number of programs over the next five years, what are my strategies than that i’m going to use to get to that objective? So, that’s why the flow chart is so helpful because it makes you start with the end? Goal in mind, which any strategic planning expert will tell you is the heart of a good strategic planning, and then go walk yourself down back into it. How are you going to get to that point on? So your strategies, we’ll help you do that, and then those strategies lead you to, you know, if i’m gonna work on a legislative issue, are you encouraging public policy makers to allocate more funds for something? Clearly? You know, one of my activities is going to be meeting with state policymakers differ from your briefings with them. Yeah, so that’s sort of just workflows down one, okay, so so it sounds like it would help to start from from the end increase in creating the whole logic model starts from start from the end on dh working backwards, absolutely. And and that’s. Why? I think i said on a previous show that i did with you, it actually brings together the two big pieces that a lot of non-profits tend to fall into two camps, you know, again, there’s this one camp that are very good at talking about the big goals in the vision and the problem and the theory of change and you know, but they’re not particularly good at saying how they’re going, what they’re going to do to get tobacco hole and then there’s this other group of non-profits they’re very good at saying, well, we’re going toe, you know, do a bunch of of activities are community here they are, but there’s no connection with those activities to larger goal. So this exercise is a really good one toe help bring all of coherence to everything this organization does and why it’s doing it? The theory of change. You you had mentioned that it can stand alone, or it could be a part of your logic model let’s dive into that. Now what? What is the theory of change? These if then statements? Yeah, the theory of change is is basically, as they said, a syriza if then statements that explain how your organization believes change is going to occur. We believe, for example, we believe that if x success is in place than accept sexual occur, so an example is, if you know, your organization works on homelessness. Um, you might. Your theory of change might be that, you know, homelessness is going to be resolved when we have more affordable housing for people versus an organization who actually believe that change is going to occur by insuring public policies that prevent poverty that leads to homelessness. So those air two different theories of how these organizations see change is gonna happen. There’s no right or wrong it’s just being very clear about how you think that you’re going to get changed around a particular issue, our effort that you’re doing and so so how do you get to that? So that’s your that’s your goal? If you believe that homeless is going to be resolved with more affordable housing than start with that, and then what are your assumptions behind that? Well, you know, our assumptions are that people need housing and they don’t have it or they don’t have access to it. So if we build more housing, then people will have access to low income housing. So you start with this again and goal and then talk about so what am i assuming when i say that it’s going to be resolved this way and everything that we say that we’re going to dio or we thinks gonna happen has a siri’s. Of assumptions behind it, whether their political, whether their ideological, whether there is something you believe or your organization believes. Those are assumptions about how you’re going to get changed. And you want to know that a theory of changes and you want to be explicit about what those assumptions are exactly. I mean, i can give you an example. Please think examples are very helpful here. Okay. So let’s say that your goal is to reduce the number of young adults who use ah, methamphetamines or drugs. Assumptions about the problems could be something like reducing availability of methamphetamines is an effective strategy to combat it’s you. Another assumption might be delaying initiation of meth use. We’ll decrease the demand for those drugs in the community. Another might be a community can change access to meth. Um, as a precursor to other chemicals and drugs. So then the theory of change become something like, um if if my organization invests time and money in decreasing the mass production in my community by inhibiting access to it, um then local meth production is likely to decrease. Then you go on to the next one. If then that is decreased if access to mathos decreased than the use of that drug is likely to decrease. And then the next step is if i use prevention efforts or advocate for those to include matthews in those prevention, drug prevention outreach efforts than young adults are likely to delay that youth. So the theory of changes dahna when a community comes together and implements multiple strategies to address young adult use of meth in a comprehensive way, young adults will use left that’s, your theory of change. Okay, um, and in that you’re identifying the people, we’re going to be involved in this populations, a friend and what what they’re what the outcome’s gonna be and how you’re going to achieve them. So it’s. Like who, what and how krauz where i’m looking exactly? It’s, it’s, pretty much the three components, populations, outcomes and strategies. Okay, okay, onda geun. We’ll have links on the facebook page, so i think that will. That will help a lot. Let’s, talk about this as sort of a za broader look a little more into the the strategic planning value of this. I mean, it’s starting to become pretty clear as we’re talking about it, that that a lot of constituencies should be involved in developing your theory of change in your and your and your your logic model home. Yeah, i think you mentioned the board. What about getting people? What about getting the actual people who are benefiting from the services? Is that is that a possibility? I think that’s critical, i mean, my personal opinion because i do a lot of work on civic and reg resident engagement in buy-in non-profit work, so i feel very strongly, personally that you should have, um, stakeholders, whatever they are, whoever they are, whether they’re organizations that you work within the community to do your work, or whether they’re people that you who’s who benefits from or use your services or programs should be at the table when you have these conversations, i think they could be invaluable in helping organizations construct realistic outcomes and output because they’re on the ground and they base, they know how things work in reality? Um, well, i’ve seen organizations invest a lot of money in time and doing very, very strong logic models have had very, very seemingly clear outcomes that they’re going to use to assess private progress, but then when they start implementing their programs and they they haven’t involved people who are participating, those programs there they find pretty quickly that the outcomes they thought were goingto happen or that were important are either not happening or not very important to the people involved who who may see outcomes very differently from somebody not directly involved in those programs. So the more you can bring in, um, you know, some of those people tto have these discussions in in a strategic planning discussion as well. I just personally think you’re you’re goingto come out stronger in the end, particularly in terms of what you’re you’re trying to achieve and how you’re going to measure it. Those those same problems could also come from having a faulty set of assumptions at the beginning, and the people who are on the street on the ground are goingto challenge your faulty assumptions. Great point, i think that’s absolutely true, and that does happen. Um, and again, if you’re not clear about the assumptions at the beginning or your, which of course, than feed into your whole theory of how you’re going make something happen of your you’re not goingto your you’re pretty much screwed. Yeah, that’s i mean, that’s the beginning here, if your assumptions or faulty everything flows from those that’s right, that’s, right? So the more checks and balances you can have built in the stronger your model’s going to be okay, you gotta ask some difficult questions and be willing to teo even defend or change your aled different stages, including the assumptions, yeah, and that’s, why again, there’s no right or wrong and a lot of these, i mean, different organizations clearly work on similar issues have very different ways of seeing that issue, you know, conservative non-profit it’s working on, um, an issue of teen pregnancy is going to have a very different theory of change than a more progressive organization working on the same issue, and they’re going to have a very different set of assumptions. That doesn’t mean those assumptions were wrong or right. It’s just about making sure that everyone you’re working with in your organization and outside of it that you’re working with and targeting is all on the same page about those assumptions. Cindy, you gave me a sample logic model to look at could because that’s something that i could put on my blogged associated with this post or with show post for this show, probably not, but i can send. I will give you links, teo. A whole number of resource is that do have examples of them included. You know, the caliph foundation, for example, has a really terrific logic model workbook. Okay, it’s pretty thorough. And it walks you through the process, and there are examples in there. Um, internet has one as well. Again, there are a lot of templates out there that include ah, really? Good example. Okay, we have to leave it there, but we’ll put the will put the links on the facebook page and the under my posted a cz part of my posted takeaways. Cindy, thank you very, very much. Oh, you’re welcome, it’s great. Thank you. You’ll find cindy on twitter at caen, gibb and she’s principle of synthesis consulting. We are sponsored by generosity. Siri’s you know these folks, you know. Dave lynn cielo they host multi charity peer-to-peer runs and walks. If you’re thinking about including something like that in your fund-raising mix, then i asked you to check them out. They do all the back end work so that you can focus on getting participants and fund-raising which is the whole purpose, right? They so they cover these the things that you might not have thought of until you blew it on the first one, and then you realize it on the second one, like portable restrooms and fluid stations and licenses and permits and race bibs and medals and photographs and professional chip timing. Yeah, there’s a lot that goes into this that’s, the back end stuff that they take care of. They have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia, toronto, talk to them. If you’re thinking about a run or walk and please tell them that you heard about them on non-profit radio, you can get dave lynn at seven one eight five o six nine triple seven seven one eight five o six, nine triple seven or on the web. They are generosity siri’s dot com charity registration you’re supposed to be registered with state authorities in each state where you solicit donations are you? You may ask, what is a solicitation any of these email, postal mail a donate now button on your website and the channels that drive people to that donate now button there’s a lot more about charity registration on my blogged because it’s a part of my practice and the blogger is tony martignetti dot com just search the phrase charity registration that is tony’s take two for friday, twentieth of june twenty fifth show of the year now my interview with deborah sharp on user personas i want you to know that a scheduling conflict forced debra and i off the stage osili debra and me, right? Debra and me forced debra and me off the stage at at ntc, we worked, we worked things out where we reconvened, but we had to move twice, so you’re going to hear a couple of breaks in the audio is going to sound a little different because we’re standing. We’re sitting in a different place than where we started, but we persevered. So that’s, some of the some of the brakes that you’ll hear here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen use that hashtag it’s fourteen and t c with me now is debra sharp, she’s digital director, manifest communications and her workshop topic is user personas it’s not about you it’s about them. Deborah sharp, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. Pleasure to have you on dh just come a little closer to the mike, would you please so that everybody can hear you? Thank you, user personas i know very little about them, so i’m not gonna even try. Why don’t you explain what they are and why they’re so critical? Sure, well, there are they are really essential part of web development and you’re only going to get as good a website is thie kind of strategy and thinking that you put into it at the front and and part of that fun end is creating these user personas, which are really fictitious people there people you make up, but they’re based on very real segments. There’s supposed to be able to help you understand who were the users coming to your website and what do they need? What their motivations? What? Their goals when they get there because what’s really deadly, especially working with with non-profits but it happens with all kinds of organizations and companies is that you get website development by committee from the people who work inside an organization was all about what they want to say to people, what they have, what they think is important, what they want to put out there, and often what happens is they just don’t have a good understanding of who’s actually going to come to the website and why they’re coming and what’s most important to those users. So that’s, what user personas will help you do? So we need to be thinking about who the people are that’s come that air coming versus what we want to say and put out as sort of a bulletin board for them all to read right and be able tio create a hierarchy, even of information and of users as well, because there’s a lot that goes into thinking about what what a user is, and when they come to your site, you might think that let’s take a non-profit you might think you’ve got your your clients with people, use the services of the organization, you may have volunteers, you may have donors and all of those may then segment into teo different groups themselves and what happened sometimes i’m sure everybody’s been to a website like this where you have no idea where what you’re looking for is it’s like, how do i get there? And i’m clicking and i’m going here and i’m going there and about three or four kliks later, i’m still getting frustrated and guess what? I’m out there leaving, you know? Yeah, and not all of those users may be of the same priority of the importance, for example, just gonna give you an example that we worked on. We’re going so many, but one of the things i shared yesterday was a thiss was a consortium of healthcare organizations who came to us, and they wanted to get a very public conversation started about the expected tsunami that’s coming and health care with our aging population something like in twenty years, there’s going to be something like have two times as many people over the age of eighty and four times as many people over the age of sixteen that’s going to be quite a dent in how we care for people and many of them with chronic health care conditions. So this consorting with all kinds of health care organizations really wanted to be able to put some african scene policy for conversations that there they thought they came to us and they said, okay, we have to reach those people, those people who are going to be over sixty. We did our research, we did some homework, we started put looking at user personas who were the people involved in this conversation, and we did what was really revealing with some social media listening we did and what we found out and this in social media listen, i’m a great advocate of that because it’s very, very natural setting in which to be able to get information surveys are great focus groups could be helpful, but they are artificially set up context so that people are very aware of what they’re answering their very where, what they’re saying, where in social media you’re actually being able to judge in evaluate what people are saying when they’re not being observed, when they’re just commenting on blog’s and when they’re talking to each other. And what they’re sharing, what their concerns are and what their challenges are, what they’re pissed off about and what we found out about out with that is that it wasn’t the direct users, it wasn’t these people over sixty was their children, so we’re talking people in their forties, so the other ones who were talking people in their fifties, those are the people who are worried about what’s happening. So when we created the website that’s who we had in mind, okay, uh, we are we’re going tow pause for second america’s the is the the team here to do a demo? Okay? We’re going to pause for a second. These user personas then are really quite critical. How do we get started in the process of creating one? Well, and we’re going to create many right, all representative of constituents, different groups, exactly so there’s its research and in a number of different ways. First thing to look at this historical data so you want to be able to look at your your website analytics, and everybody should have google analytics it’s free it’s one of the best ways to be able to measure what’s happening on your website who’s coming what they’re doing there and that’s what you really want to dig down into sea what are people doing right now on the website that’s? One of the biggest ways that you have to learn the second thing you want, teo does that? Does that include knowing where they’re coming from, where the good referral sites are? Sure, okay, i mean, it might just be from google itself or i mean now the referral traffic isn’t necessarily gonna help you in determining how you’re developing your website. I mean that’s more about marketing and how you’re reaching people driving traffic to the website. But all of that is gonna be helpful. A cz you plan to make any kind of a redesign start any webb’s not start a new one? Obviously because you won’t have extended in the redesign. Then you’re gonna wanna survey people that’s always helpful. So you haven’t existing website. Put a survey up, ask people questions about what they’re finding about the website right now, what’s most important to them what the information they’re looking for. Are they able to find what they’re looking for? You just ask the more full denture. Things about, uh, that’s going to give you information and understanding how they’re approaching your website right now, then you’re gonna want to talk to you, major stakeholders and you’re gonna want to do one on one interviews and that’s gonna be really that’s to me the most helpful in some ways because you’re really then starting to say, okay, lets get some donors to this organizations that want to talk about what’s important let’s get the people who used the services and talk to them about what’s important, etcetera, etcetera and even internal stakeholders. You want to talk to people within the organization? Start getting a sense of what’s working what’s not and even blue sky. What, if anything that you would like to see here could there be here? But then, once you start doing that, then you have to get the information on who these people are and how they interact with the web and that’s one difference that’s. Very important. We worked with some amazing clients, and most of them have truckloads of audience research. They know who their audiences are, but the kind of research that you have, a kind of data you have on people in the offline world doesn’t necessarily translate to online by that, i mean, so tony, if i were to talk to you and i’m trying to figure out what kind of an online user are you? A two point, oh, user, do you like to share things? Do you like to talk with people? You like to have a community? Do you like to be able to know? Read stories about somebody else and what’s happening in their life? Are you a lean and hurling back person? What i mean by that is way called someone a lean in experience and more of an immersive experience. So you’re somebody, if you’re all lean in person, you want to have your hand on the mouse, you want to be doing stuff and clicking stuff, using tools, getting it, being able to make your way around something in a much more sort of game like immersive way or you lean back where you want clinton served up to, and you want a video to watch or you want cem really compelling copy to be able to read that packages things really nice, so if i don’t know what kind of used ru ru time strapped even. Are you the kind of person who? Okay, i need to read three headlines here scan and if i don’t get it, i’m out of here. Are you that kind of a person? So for example, if we’re talking to potential, uh, major donors, most of them are time strapped, so you need to be able to know if that’s a really major consideration a limitation for them. How did you build your user experience? So you’re gonna satisfy their needs and expectations. So if i don’t know that stuff about you and i let’s say, i think that because i have so much important information to say, i’m going to put it all up here, i’m not gonna prioritize that i’m not gonna make a hierarchy. Meanwhile, you have about forty five seconds to teo give to my website, i’ve lost, yeah, yeah, i’m not gonna find what i’m there for. I had a goal when i arrived and i have not met it and i gave you a minute before, whatever the i mean, the stats were probably even shorter than that on i’m departing and i’ve only looked at i wasn’t deep. It all i looked at one, maybe two pages or something, and i can’t find the beginning of what i’m looking for. Okay, so we need to know all these different constituents so well, because we’re going to start to build a fictitious person, right persona. Exactly. Okay, wait there yet can we start with that process yet? Or is there more to do yet? Well, you have tio no, then you start to give you want to understand who they are, their cycle graphics and what their relationship to the issue is. You want to be able to map out what there falik what their needs are on the website with their expectations or what they’re coming there with, and then what their goals are. What is it that they actually want to get out of the website? And once you start to do that, you start to get a blueprint of these individual users and what they’re going to do. One of the things thie examples i shared in the workshop pompel wass klein it’s not actually also health related, this was for a client in the area of cancer screening, and if you go into a google search. Right now, i i challenge you. Just put in cancer screening in google, and you’ll see what comes up with a top ranking websites and their deadly. I think it’s, just an avalanche of coffee and information on text to making your way through, i think of the average site web, md, or ah, or even cancer dot org’s. Yeah, there’s, just there’s. So they millions of pages. It seems like and it’s all very text intensive, and i’m not sure how well it’s, uh, how well it’s organized. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige nani, author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. Debra and i have been interrupted twice, now way. We’re doing our best. We were when you’re non-profit radio and you’re not bloomberg or cnn sometimes have to share the stage on dh that’s what’s happening at ntcdinosaur, wearing stage with the one of the generous sponsors of ntc bm they have the stage now, so deborah and i are behind the stage and that’s what happened the first time, and now it’s happened a second time because i had to help the help the sponsors start their program, but were unrelenting. Deb and i are not, we’re not. We’re not giving up it all that’s. Why it sounds a lot different, but the substance is still here. Thank you for your patients, deborah way. Will person twice thank you very much. So where we were at stage, where i’m getting lost in millions of pages, seemingly millions of pages of cancer data from my search, andi, i’m frustrated and leaving, right? So, uh, our client came to us with a problem, and that was, uh it was actually a particular province and candidate was albert, the health services, the agency that’s responsible for delivering health care there, and cancer rates were going down, and they wanted us to put up a website about screening so that people could understand what they have to do and why it’s important, all the details and how do you prepare for it and all of the questions? Sametz all these other sites, so we started to dig in a little bit more about who we’re the users who were the people who are going to come and use this site, and something started to really emerge for us and that especially in that age category of women between forty and sixty, and these are the people, especially your time about breast cancer. We’re really, really confused. I don’t know what it’s like in america, exactly, but in canada there are different guidelines depending where you live. So the provinces have their own individual guidelines for wednesday. Appropriate time to get screened for various things on then there are national guidelines. And, uh, the national guidelines changed about a year and a half two years ago, and this kind of created a lot of confusion and and there’s a lot of information being put out, a lot of media reports and it’s just normal human behavior when you have a lot more information on a lot of confusion, what do you do? You don’t you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You throw your hands up in frustration and hope for the best, right? How most people stop getting screened in the same numbers. So that was the problem. So recognizing that was the problem. Sort of talking to women like this understanding who they were. Thiss forty. And this became our bull’s eye. This woman forty to sixty and who? She wass how she interacted online, what she needed. They did not want a lot of information. They just wanted simple, clear answers. Please, will someone tell us what to do? Does it? Forty. I get screened is a fifty. I get screen, we don’t know. So we set out to make a website that really fulfilled those needs and the website welcome to go to it. It’s screening for life dot c a and it’s very simple for is the number four no it’s not spelled out fo r okay, so what we did is we created a little tool that greets me when you arrive at the website there’s there’s. Just a big question that says not sure if you need to be screened for cancer and it asked you just click on the right figure and find out and there’s two silhouettes of a man and a woman there, and you picked the right one for you. Oh, and as soon as you click on it, you get this slider where you can just now slide your age and as the slider changes, the silhouettes changed shape, so it looks if you go down for anyone who’s going to look like a twenty one year old, you’re going a little bulge in the ways to get into the fifty exactly so kind of a little neat. We gave some buddies people something to interact with right away, so it kind of gets you engage gets you a little bit closer the website, but right away as soon as you say okay, female slide fifty for whom you have your answer, and then it gives you just very, very basic information about what you need to know. And if you go no further than that on the website and that visit, we’re totally happy we don’t need you to go anywhere else. We know that you have the very basic information if you want to keep going there’s a lot of information, if you want to figure out howto prepare for oscar, you can do that way need to relate this back to use their personas, right? But because we had done our homework way up front in terms of figuring out this was the problem there a bunch of users, for example, that cervical affects young women from the wallet sex, women from the time they’re sexually active. Colorectal cancer affects both men and women, but we understood from doing we did prove sonus for all of those people. We even did persona because the client wanted us to for the boyfriend of the the young one. Excellent. So because of that, how hiv affects that but what i’m saying is because we did all these personas and we understood what the problem was. We understood that the most important user was this forty to sixty year old women that’s who was coming that’s, who were those that’s who was seeking the information most that’s whose expectations we needed to fill right away. And we knew that we had to do it in a very simple way without having to make them dig because they didn’t want all that information. They wanted a simple, clear answer, and we didn’t have to make them look for it. The process of the persona you had said earlier, they get to the point, they even have they have names? Wey? No, because we don’t our research, we know their online behavior gets to the point of we know what? What sites they get their news from regular. That sites they go to regularly. What kind of detail in these fictitious people? Okay, that’s. A little bit more of the media profile. When you talk about how they consume good times. That’s it important for these particular women? What we what we drill down into were things like where? They lived professionally what their relationship was, for example, way have different personas when we’ve got to our primary one. So we had one where she was kind of a professional woman in that she’s familiar with, uh, online et cetera her motivations to start taking better care of herself. She’s had a friend who’s died from breast cancer. We fill in all these these things and her motivations because she has had a wake up call and she wants us to start taking better care of herself and that’s. How she’s going to come to be investigating cancer screening way had another persona she’s more of a rural person who lives in alberta not really taking care of herself very much kind of is like that stop broke don’t fix it sort of thing. I don’t run to the doctor and everything, but her children are the ones who have been after her. They’ve been reminding they’ve seen the news they’ve been watching it so the influences in life so this sixty year old person lives on a farm and who’s who’s like this, stoick, the staunch stoic who really doesn’t have a lot of, you know, time for doctors, but it’s at the urge of her daughters, who are making her pay a little bit more attention and start to take care of herself and get scream. So those that that’s the kind of information, then once we have that what air there needs online, what did they do? How does that what is this woman he’s, very two different people knowed how do they interact in the online world? Oh, and again, that comes into the speed at which we want to serve up information, the tool which we wanted to do not make people read a lot because we had our rural women in mind. I didn’t want to give it that sort of very text, you know, dense copy information. So those air, how those pieces start to unfold and then the goals, of course, what do they want out of it? That may be a little bit different as you go in, like our professional woman. She may want a little bit more deeper information for those of the kinds of things, okay, sense, yeah, yeah, and the that i mean, clearly that the time is considerable for doing the research to create these that goes into creating the personas. But i, you know, i think that if you really want people to achieve their goals on your site and achieved their goals, not your goals for the for them, but achieve their goals on the site dahna it seems it seems very clear, yeah nasco piela yeah takes time, but in terms of time, how long is your site going to be up? No, that would be the ants and don’t you want people to be successful on it every single day? Not just occasionally, when someone has more time to spend than the average right? So if you spend three weeks creating these personas three to four weeks doing that up front, my my suggestion is that it’s a really worth investment of time when you’re gonna have a site that’s up for two to three years, who creates the personas and we want to avoid website by committee when you mentioned earlier who’s actually sitting down and creating the the people in willing up my world because i work at an agency we provide. That service and we do it though in a collaborative way with their clients. So we will talk to them about what we’re going to be doing will inform them of what kind of research tools will employ. We might be talking to them are usually almost always talking to them and talking to some key stakeholders within their organizations in addition to outside users and then once we have started tio get a handle on it will have a meeting will sit down with them and review the research, review the findings with them and then the final personas they have to approve everybody’s got to be and on it. But we do provide that service okay non-profits khun do with themselves you can there are ways to do it. We left in our workshop we had actually a a worksheet that we handed out. We actually asked everybody okay, pick a website that’s near and dear to your heart. Pick one user and now fill this out and we gave them all the areas to fill out. And then we had a couple volunteers come up and you were very brave enough to bring up their website then walk us through the use of ok, so it can’t be done internally, but with time commitment, but obvious value benefit at the at the end of the process, user personas percent okay, something could be a lot of fun, too. It can be actually, i mean, there use. They become your little family. Yeah. You know, you get to know them very well. You did. All right. Thank you very much. Thanks. My pleasure. Deborah sharpe is digital director at manifest communications in where we’re in a hurry in ontario in toronto. Thank you. Our excellent. Thank you very much. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of anti season non-profit technology conference and i want to thank debra for being a good sport and two interruptions. Now we’re in the back alley almost of the of the science fair, but the substance is still valuable. So thank you very much, debra. My thanks to everybody at ntc and the non-profit technology network for hosting me there. Next friday is fund-raising day in new york city, hosted by the new york city chapter of the association of fund-raising professionals. I’ll be there getting lots of interviews for the show, but i won’t be doing them live. So what is going to air next friday? I don’t know, but don’t be so nosy, you’ll find out, and you know that it’ll be good. Next friday’s show. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it at tony martignetti dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer show social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein, you’re with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out, that’d be great. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get me anything. Duitz nothing. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, i’m lost in a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m we’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking calm.

Nonprofit Radio for April 18, 2014: NTEN & NTC: Why You Should Pay Attention & .ngo

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Amy Sample Ward

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Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward is CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network and our contributor on social media. On the opening day of the Nonprofit Technology Conference, we talked about the value of NTEN and NTC for small- and mid-size nonprofits. Everybody uses technology!

 

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Glen McKnight, Andrew Mack, Evan Leibovitch

Glen McKnight, Andrew Mack, Evan Leibovitch
Me with (L-R) Glen McKnight, Andrew Mack, Evan Leibovitch

Introducing the new top level domain–and its affiliated community–for nonprofits throughout the world. Plus, a primer on how domains are managed by ICANN. I learned a lot! My guests from the Nonprofit Technology Conference are Glen McKnight, secretariat of NARALO (it represents you!); Andrew Mack, principal of AMGlobal Consulting; and Evan Leibovitch, global vice chair of the At Large Advisory Committee of ICANN.

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If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m very glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure black hairy tongue if i came to learn that you had missed today’s show and ten on dh and tc why you should pay attention amy sample ward is ceo of non-profit technology network and our contributor on social media. Of course you know her. On the opening day of the non-profit technology conference, we talked about the value of n ten and anti seafirst small and midsize non-profits everybody uses technology and dot ngo, introducing the new top level domain and its affiliated community for non-profits throughout the world, plus a primer on how domains are managed by icann. I learned a ton, and you will too. My guests from the non-profit technology conference are glenn mcknight, secretariat of naralo, which represents you will learn what that is. Andrew mac principle of am global consulting and evan leibovich, global vice chair of the at large advisory committee of i can between the guests on tony’s take two inauguration of the non-profit radio knowledge base, both these interviews came from ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference. And here is my discussion with amy sample ward about the conference and ten welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fourteen the hashtag is fourteen and t c and my guest now is amy sample war. She is very well known to non-profit radio listeners, of course, a monthly social media contributor, but here and and and outside non-profit radio. She does have a role. And that is ceo of non-profit technology conference of and abandon the non-profit technology network partner. Exactly nowhere. Welcome back. Good to see you. Thank you, it’s. Nice to actually be in person. Yes, i know you were usually bicoastal, right? The power of radio is that we’re not actually in the same room. I know. Um, your ceo of this gig. How did your did your welcome? Plenary go. I hope everybody was standing ovations. And was it exciting? I was here setting up. Yeah, it was it was really great, but actually, i think i was surprised. I think everyone else was surprised by how many emotions we went through because there were stories and videos. From the jupiter video awards and ah, ignite presentations that put everyone in tears inspired them, but then also things where we were laughing hysterically, so it was it was a great emotional roller coaster, which i don’t know what that says about the attendees or the community, but that’s how we’ve started the conference, a lot of open hearts, exactly excellent, excellent, and i’d like to spend some time talking about something that we don’t when you’re on each month, which is let’s, talk about what the non-profit technology network is, and then we’ll talk some about ntcdinosaur well, for future future future conferences, but, um, tell me what’s the why should somebody pay? Why should someone in a non-profit pay attention to non-profit technology network? Well, so many reasons way have a decent number of minutes together as usual, i would say first of all, it it’s totally okay if you don’t want to be on in ten member, but there is definitely no way that in your organization you khun b ignoring the valuable and critical piece that technology is bringing to you being able to work efficiently, effectively, i know what you’re doing know who you’re reaching know how much money you’ve raised track what you’ve done proved that you’ve done it tell people then, how much you’ve done, you know, technology is just crucial for any organization, regardless of who they are, where they’re based, what they’re trying to do, who they want to talk, teo, and to not focus on that across your staff, you know, it isn’t just the director that should know about those things. Every staff person is making decisions that impact technology either for their team, for themselves or just is it taking you five minutes to do something that could take you one minute? You know that that means more time devoted tio doing more of your work instead of, you know, doing more work to do the work, okay? And and how does intend help people who are let’s focus on the people? We’re not in it and because, you know, our audience is nine thousand small and midsize shops, they may very well not have a night manager directly. So what does intend for those people? Well, we’re really focused on strategic use of technology, meaning we don’t focus on the specific tools were we’re never going to tell people on a webinar that they should all be using a certain tool or a certain app or a certain platform, because it may not be right for you. Those those tools, i mean, there’s a million choices for everything, right? There’s like over two thousand crowdfunding platforms? I mean, there’s, there’s just so much choice out there that it’s important, that we provide some some practice, give people a chance to practice, talk through and really understand how to make those strategic decisions. How do you evaluate what you need so that when you go look at those tools, when you walk through the science fair and talk to different providers, you’re able to say, this is what we’re looking for. Can you get us there instead of allow shiny? I want your shiny thing, so helping people understand how to evaluate their own needs, but then how to budget for the technology that you’re able to bring in figuring out what your budget is, and then how to push that against all of your programs. You know, it shouldn’t just be a bucket of office supplies and general technology, not a great budgeting plan on then. Also that you’re able to evaluate then what you invested in to know if it’s still meeting your needs if it’s helping you reach that impact if it’s helping you measure that impact, etcetera and we’re talking about technology runs the gamut. Randi probably could be cr emmett, maybe social exactly might be crowdfunding could be your web site. It could be anything. Um and how does how does intend go about this? How do we empower non-technical agis ts too do all the things that you you’re you just said with that with their technology and and evaluate yeah, we i mean, we’re always open to more ideas for how to do this. Because it’s a it’s. A lot of work, right? It’s. A pretty big mission. Pretty large goals and what what we do, at least right now is we have offline events. We have the conference. We have auntie si. But we also have smaller local events sum that happened every month as volunteer lead meetups in about thirty cities in north america, plus poland. And you know poland is charging ahead for europe. And then we have some that are led by antennas workshop. So all day workshops usually in a pretty deep dive into a specific topic training, etcetera and those air live workshops in in cities. Yeah, we’re in a density, i guess, yep, exactly on then we have year round online programs, all kinds, you know, same as you were saying, every kind of technology, every kind of technology is covered in our webinars we have way have webinars for fund-raising folks for communications folks for leadership level staff who don’t want to know howto install a module in their droop a website, they just want to know why they have decided to use that website and and for those folks, we also have webinars that are for people just getting started trying to figure out the tools that they need, and people have been doing it for twenty years, you know, and are really looking for the latest and greatest kind of tips on to be able to share with each other and the merge of those offline events and community programs and our online webinars our communities of practice, so those are usually topic focusedbuyer oops, so there’s one four directors, for example, there’s one for folks who manage content for their non-profit, etcetera, and they’re online discussions, but they can have monthly calls her webinars together on their totally free to participate in communities of practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eso it’s it’s kind of the merger of being able to talk to other people that know what you’re talking about, learn something with each other, but then also have kind of asynchronous just online connection. Tell us a little about inten itself. How? Because the staff well there, i think they’re throughout the country. Right? Right. We have way have eleven staff and eight of them are in portland, oregon. Okay. And three of them work from home in the cities they live in in california, washington and illinois. Um, and how long have you been within ten? I this i just realized this yesterday. The, uh, ntc in d c in twenty eleven was my second week as the membership director when i started twenty eleven yet. It’s, my, my three year anniversary. Okay. Congratulations. And thank you. You started as membership. I started as a membership director. You remember of intend for a long time. Where, you know, for many years in new york city, you were going to the meet ups there? Yeah, i actually have been a member, and i started the tech club that’s in portland back in two thousand seven and then left and started a tech club in london and then moved to new york and was a co organizer in new york, and i’m back in portland, so i had to rejoin is a co organizer because the group is still going seven years later, which is very strange to show up and not have to tell people why it’s there, you know, when you’re just starting a community kind of volunteer led group, every meeting that started with okay, this is why we’re here. Please tell your friends, please bring people to this group so that we can survive. And now it’s. Just a thriving community. It’s it’s really surreal. Outstanding. But now what happened in london? You didn’t mention london as a city that has. Yeah, they still do. They still have their eye. I am not sure if they still do mention poland yet. Poland, right? But london, you know well, london was formed under tech soups, community program, net squared and so they may still work with tech. Soup there’s a a country partner, their charity technology trust so they may still work with them, but they aren’t at least ten and ten affiliated group. And, of course, if you want to find where the intent affiliate groups are the intern work. Thean ten website. Exactly, yeah, under the community tab. We have a tech club link and i love that the novel called and ten new york city and in portland, and i don’t think any of them have and ten in the name. Many of them are called tech for good summer called tech clubs. Some of them are just called like community technology, something we’re pretty open. Our point is that people are having these conversations and sharing these resource is, regardless of what they’re calling themselves. Okay? And how much of what we’ve talked about can someone participate in if they’re not on intend member, you can participate in anything we do without being a member, but as a member you can get big discount on registering for the conference. You always get a discount on webinars or training’s things like that. Okay, everything is accessible, very giving group we’d like to give you. Alright, that’s, wonderful art. So you don’t have to be a member. They didn’t even think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz hyre but what is membership like if if i am a member, yes, but i don’t remember if there’s only one rate that that members pay. Sure. So there’s you conjoined as an individual or you, khun joins an organization when you join is an organization. It covers unlimited staff, because we don’t necessarily know how many staff you have so it’s so you don’t know whoever your staff are. They khun b, a member, three organizational membership and it’s based on your operating budget. So if you’re ah non-profit, whose annual operating budget is five hundred thousand dollars or less, which is the vast majority of the profits than your annual membership for unlimited staff is sixty dollars, you’re kidding. I am not sixty dollars, for an organization under under half a million dollars. Yes, that’s outstanding, or i think so, too, and that’s the vast majority of non-profit radio listeners like small and midsize. If you happen to be an organization that has an annual budget over half a million dollars how much? Then it goes up. It goes from five hundred, too. Two million. Two million to five million and then above five million. So even if it leave it at the top, it’s still only three. Thirty five. Oh, my goodness. And for unlimited members within your organization? Yeah. Are you getting a little help from somebody in the audience? No, i i just saw i just saw julie. Who is our conference manager. Look up when i as soon as i was starting to say specific numbers because i haven’t had a lot of sleep. So saying specific numbers on a microphone, you know, okay. And i’ll give a shout to julie to thank you very much, julie, for all the help that you gave non-profit radio and me leading up to today. Thank you very much. Really? Julie conroy is that excellent eyes also julia smith. Yes, she was. Julia smith is not currently here, but i’ll shut her out too. She was also very, very helpful. Yes. And we have a james and a jessica. We are no longer hiring j names wear at capacity for j names. All right, let’s. Move. Teo ntc why is the non-profit technology unconference a great benefit for oh, wait. No, no, i have to go back individual membership. So, yes, we didn’t cover that. What was there? The same? They’re the same benefits, but they only cover one person. Okay. Andi, how much did i pay for eighty five dollars? Starbucks stand. Oh, so individuals pay more than small organizations? Yes. Because primarily individuals in the membership in the community are independent consultants. So it’s it’s kind of the hybrid between it being the for-profit organisational range. But put it in his individual. Okay, um, so now let’s talk about the non-profit technology conference and she why is this terrific? For for non-technical agis ts and then well, and then we’ll talk about technologies do because you have a lot of there’s, a lot of technical there’s, good technical work. And they’re all kinds of nerds here. Yeah. All right. Well, all right. Let’s, talk. Let’s. Start with the technologist. We’ll double it. Technologist. Find here. Ah, you will find many people who feel just like you that you are probably the only person in your organization that knows what you’re talking about or knows what those things mean or knows how to set up a database, but you’ll also probably find a lot of people who legitimately want to get past the conversation of, you know, complaining about oh my gosh, you know, my program staff hate when i tell them this or no one ever does their updates, if you are a really, you know, director, technology person in the organization, you’re going to find people, regardless of their job title, who want to talk to you about the things you’re doing, the things they are doing, you know, and and really talk shop, get share ideas, figure out if there’s something you’re doing that they haven’t heard of, you know, tell you about their favorite tools. It’s a pretty good it’s, a pretty good kind of swapping community. So let’s, let’s break down silos where where is off on the side? Yeah, often not in leadership or decision making rolls, right? An organization writes and that’s collaborate. Right. And that’s. Why we got rich? We no longer have when you look at the program schedule for the conference, we no longer list tracks we don’t say, you know, these are all of the sessions for communications people and these air the sessions for leadership level staff because there may be leadership level staff who managed the communications as well, because there are a small organization or they may be communication staff that want to be in a leadership position, and they want to go to those sessions. So we tried to break down even our structure that promoted those silos to encourage people to go to the sessions based on the content of the sessions. So we still listed if it was a tactical or restaurants, you know, gave some parameters, so people knew what they were getting into. But hopefully it really encourages that cross pollination. You go in a room and the speaker could ask, you know, who works in these departments? And you’re going to have people representing every part of oven organization and what i do see these air, not tracks, but i see. Learn, learn, connect and change a cz topics that the workshops fit into, right? Yeah. Those are the three pillars of intends villages. I call them topics, but yeah, yeah, they they sound very important when you say pillar. There, the three buckets of our work there, the pieces of our strategic plan and their how really, everything we do, helps fit across the spectrum of the community. There are people that want to come just to make connections, and that is okay. You know, they’re people that come. They don’t want to talk to anybody that i want to be anybody’s friend. They just need to learn this stuff so they can go to work, you know? But there are also people that come here because they want to do all of it. You know, they want to meet a couple people, they want to be inspired, but they also wanted go to that one session and write everything down that the person says, because they know they need to hear it. Let’s, let’s, talk about ntcdinosaur the for the non technologist. Sure. What? What? What? What are we gonna find? Sure. I mean, some of the some of the most rapidly growing segments of the membership are into traditionally non-technical teams, the program staff on the leadership staff because as i was saying at the beginning, you know, everyone has recognized that you have you have to be smart about the technology you’re using cause it’s underpinning everything you dio it is your success or your failure. So staff in program rolls are now being told, you know what? Can you demonstrate that? Can you prove that we don’t want to know if you serve that many meals? We want to know how those meals change those people’s lives and we’re used to being able to tick up pretty easy to get, you know, transactional box and now it’s program staffer being challenged by funders even by their own staff and their boards to really be able to tell the whole story of their impact and not just the transaction data. They’re coming to the entire community to figure out. Not just how do we think about measurement? You know, they know how to think about measurement, but they need to know howto i actually store this data. How do i collect the data? How do i know if the data is valuable and it’s the right data? And then how do i tell stories about this? You know, i’ve collected all this data, all these numbers. What do they even mean? Can we create context can recreate really compelling evidence? Okay, program staff, what about fundraisers there? I mean, ever it’s a non-profit conference, everybody is a fundraiser. Everybody would gladly talk to you about how you should invest in their organization. So there are true fund-raising sessions, you know, plenty of sessions that air explicitly about friendraising but so many sessions now kind of blur the lines between program communication and fund-raising because they’re about storytelling. Well, it could be a story you want to tell that’s an advocacy campaign or it could be a story you wanna tell, two raise money for your mission, whatever it is, there are so many of the sessions that i think touch on all of those best practices, all the principles you need to follow and many sessions, even if they’re considered a fund-raising session or communication session use examples from all those different kinds of campaigns. How about ceos? Executive director’s? Why? Why did they belong here? Oh my gosh, i mean, i really think that if you are leading an organization and you, you don’t need to know how to get into the back end of your website and change things, but if you don’t know why you have that website, how it is meeting your goals, how you’re going to decide if you need to do a redesign or you need to go get a new website or or anything, then you’re not going to be able to make those decisions in a leadership position. You’re going to be relying on your staff, which is great, they should help you help inform that decision, but if you’re not able to directly engage the way that you are for many, you know organizational leaders and maybe a fundraising campaign decision or a pr topic, i just don’t think that you’ll be able to successfully implement any project that then relies on that website or then relies on that database, as you said earlier, i mean technology’s just so critical toe operating any organization right, leadership needs to know exactly what it can do, how it can be a value and the leaderships sessions that air at the conference, you know aren’t trying to tell executive directors how to build a website, you know, they’re not trying to convert you to become a technologist, the sessions here for leadership level staffer really toe have those conversations about how do you staff for technology? If every single staff person is responsible for managing and budgeting for the tools they need to get their work done, are you providing them with training? How are you evaluating, you know, their use in there, you know, quarterly or annual reviews, all of those pieces that fall under, you know, a traditional non-profit leader’s role with staffing and accounting and all of that still has to either rely on technology or consider technology to be successful. Do you know, are there many board members who come many board members because many people who are on non-profit boards also work at a non-profit, you know, so they’re coming with with two roles, both how do we, you know, think about this as a board where we’re really looking at that evaluation piece, we’re really looking at that larger story of our mission, but then also how i think about this for my day job, where i work and maybe in a more specific role, okay, leave me with something inspirational as ceo because we’re about we’re about to wrap up about ten or, um, something inspirational it’s like, if you tell someone to say something funny, nothing left to say, well, something that i was inspired by, at least for this morning’s plenary was that, you know, i said at the very beginning, there were a couple that made everybody cry. There are a couple that made everybody laugh, and there were a couple that were just the true here is what you need to know to go be successful in your work, and i think it was that, at least to me, what what i reflection on that is that it was the perfect balance of how i feel like almost every session goes every day of the conference goes, and really the whole year with this community of people, it isn’t what did you say? Open hearts, you know, it’s it’s, one of the on ly communities have ever been in in my life where a zsu nas you show up, you know, and you have that kind of hesitation do i introduce myself? What do i do? Everyone just has high where have you been? You are supposed to be here no matter who you are, no matter what organization you represent and and i think the fact that we could start a conference in an unprompted way with tears and laughter and people sharing incredibly personal stories from a stage in front of two thousand people, i think there’s just evidence that it’s a community made for that sharing, you know, it’s, check your insecurities at the door because this isn’t a place for that kayman sample words the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten there in ten dot or ge her idea on twitter is at amy rs ward herb log is amy sample ward dot or ge? And i want to thank you very much and she’s also, as i said, ah, regular monthly contributor to non-profit radio, which i’m very glad about, thanks so much. Thank you for having me and thank you for being at the anti see. It’s a real pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for setting us up. Here durney martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference and t c fourteen ntcdinosaur hashtag thanks very much for being with us. I love having amy is a guest and it was a pleasure to be with her face to face at ntc we have a new sponsor. It is generation siri’s. You may recall that just a couple of weeks ago i am seed their event in brooklyn. It was a five k run walk and it raised money for ten charities. That’s what generation siri’s does? They put together runs and walks for the benefit of a bunch of charities and they do all the back end work of getting the permits and the licenses and they rent the equipment, all the audio and all the tents and all the stuff that you need it to finish line and they take care of all of that for the benefit of the charities that want to participate. They had that one in brooklyn there’s one coming up in miami, new jersey, toronto. They’ll be back in new york city in november and i hope to emcee that one in aa in new york city and maybe a couple of others, you will find a generation siri’s at gen events dot com jen events. Dot com. Very nice people. David lin is the ceo there. I am taking interviews fromthe show and grouping them into topics to create the non-profit radio knowledge base i’m inaugurating the knowledge base with branding branding is so muchmore than most people think of it as so much more than your visual identity logo, website tagline and on the my block this week, there are links two interviews about branding so you can see just how deep it is. If you missed those interviews through the years, i’ve got close to two hundred hours of non-profit radio july is going to be the two hundredth show doing this for four years, and the knowledge base will organize all those interviews by topic so that you can pull the best of non-profit radio, video and audio on the subjects that you want and listen, watch on any device. The introductory video is on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, eighteenth of april, the sixteenth show of the year. And here is my interview now with three gentlemen who are delivering and representing the new top level domain dot ngo. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen with that hashtag it’s fourteen and tc, we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c and joining me now are glenn mcknight, andrew mac and evan leibovich and we’re going to talk about i can naralo so there’s acronyms we’re goingto flesh all that out and the new dot ngo top level domain all about domains and how these air all managed today. Glenn mcknight is secretariat of naralo, which is the north america regional at large organisation. Andrew mac is principal of am global consulting and is helping with the launch of the dot ngo top level domain. And evan leibovich is global vice chair of the at large advisory committee of i can. Gentlemen welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, evan, i can i see a n n the tell us what it is and why it’s important came. I can is the internet corporation for assigned names and numbers. It manages i p addresses, which is the machine numbers addresses of how machines find each other on the internet and the names of whatever dot com dot or ge dot us dot uk of the names you used to actually translate. To those numbers on how you get from your computer to wherever you’re looking for things every device connected to the internet, every single device in the world has to have a unique i pee or internet protocol address, right? If i overstated it, isn’t that? Is that right? Well, the problem is, is there’s a shortage of these numbers and everything, but i just didn’t need a number. Yeah, just agree with me that each single device that’s, right so one person could have three or four easily i p address is right. You have your phone, you might have your ipad, you might have your desktop right and maybe have a fourth device that i can’t think about, maybe have two phones, so each individual device has to have its own unique i p address, right? You’re absolutely right. I can. The internet corporation for assigned names and numbers manages that that process is that right? The numbering scheme, as well as the naming scheme numbers and not right. Because in your address bar, i’m tryingto make this this’s relevant to every single person. Absolutely who’s connected to the internet. So i’m not gonna make sure the relevance is clear when you go to your address bar you either type in a name most likely or a number. And that all is an idea. Dress at all relates to an i p address and that’s how you get to a site or a device if you knew the number itself like one o six thought this thought this thought this you could type that directly into your browser, but most people don’t know that. Okay? Yes, but there is a number behind every name. So i have tony martignetti dot com there’s an i p address the number that that’s an address in itself. There’s a number behind that. That common name. Exactly. Okay. Excellent. And if you think about it, if i can yeah, i can look at the andrew. It looks at the international policies around that. So it’s not just a question of the technical side, but also where is the internet going? What will the future of the internet look like? And it’s in a really interesting kind of public private partnership? Because it brings in people from many different sectors from the private world, from the government world from the non-profit world and they all come together to help design the policies that guide the internet as it goes forward. I can. I can is people. There are the internet corporation there. There are fuller. This is a robot. You know, it’s important to understand that distinction you wanted well, but the other thing to understand is that yes, there’s policies. But this is not about censorship. This is not about that neutrality. About that little sliver of regulations about names and numbers. Help me. Are there people are thie internet corporation comprised of people? Yes. Or there is. There is an office in in california and there’s offices in brussels. There’s offices in singapore where they have warm bodies that manage this. But there’s a massive community of volunteers that are. We’ll talk about it. It’s. Very bottom up. That’s what i think most people do not understand. I think most people think it’s dominated down top down. But it’s not and that’s where? The that’s where the regional at large organizations come in because there throughout the world. Right? Ok, now we’re going. We’re not tuna, rallo yet. Who appointed? I can to this role. How did they get that responsibility? Technically, it’s a contract with the department of commerce. So where did they come from? And let me explain, created icann the internet, as you, as you may know, was born out of a u s series of u s government contracts, right? He got big bird was originally a military was it was from the start, but, yeah, profanity. So it was it was set up and the advanced rate i liketo like i don’t like to leave listeners with acronym, the defense advanced research project administration illustration. That’s, right, darpa and so darpa. And the idea was that we wanted to have systems that would that would be able to share data when bad things happen. Right then it migrated to you guys and probably know a little bit more about the academic side than i do, but been migrated to being a way of for academics to share data. And then as time went on, people realized that this was a really big thing, and it could have a lot more. It could have a lot more potential uses that wade initially thought it was a very exciting time, very exciting time and so that clinton was during the clinton administration, and they decided this is too big to just be held in the united states and that there’s a real value and having it be a global thing. And so there was a movement to try to create this. What is effectively a public private partnership that involves people from around the world, and then then then i can was born, and it has been moving in different directions to become more and more internationalist as time has gone on since the early nineties. Ok, ok. And, of course, where where i’m deliberately not mentioning the old al gore cliche. I’m so tired. Okay, all right now, let’s. Okay, so that is very interesting. Very, very i can. So now it is bottom up. So we have these offgrid these regional at large, um, at large organizations throughout the world. Of which naralo the north america regional right regional advisory organs committee is one or the organization naralo well, i can has chopped the world into five region, so no naralo is one of them. There’s, also one for latin american and caribbean, one for europe went for asia and one for asia pacific and one. For africa. Okay, all these at large organizations throughout the world and they are helping to represent the people that are the people that are people, the individual internet users day in and day out, right? You’re not buying it. Domain. You’re not selling domain. You use them in your browser that’s, right? What does that mean? Well, so they thought the thought is that how does that relate to what i wait, wait. Give it a chance. Okay? How does that relate to what i just said? Okay, if ford wants to have a website that you look at their cars, so ford goes out, they buy four dot com. And in germany, though, by four dot d e and so on and so forth. Okay, yeah. Then, it’s, they market to you here’s how to find us. All right, four dot com you type that into your browser, you’re not the one buying the domain. They’re paying money to somebody toe have four dot com. They’re buying an annual subscription to somebody toe have that? Yes, they’re paying to somebody else that have four dot d and so on and so forth each of these top level domains dot com dot or ge every country has won so in canada’s dot see a uk, right? A you and so on. So there’s right now, there’s about twenty two dozen odd generic ones that aren’t associated with the country. Every country has designated their own and there’s about to be a very, very large expansion. Okay, we’re gonna get to that. We’re going to get there. Don’t worry. We have twenty five minutes together. Don’t worry. We’re not going to lose that. I know. It’s important. I happen to know, for instance, that morocco, the country, morocco is dahna emma. Because i have bought through bentley the custom earl. Tony. My name tony martignetti. Tony dot. M a. So i know morocco is emma and you know, and in bit lee itself. Where is billy going through? I don’t know why. Libya? Libya. Oh, dot fulwider libya. Yes. Okay. Excellent. Who thought right? You do that. All right. You got the right people. Hear you, do you? Do you guys do well, that’s a rhetorical question for the three of you know what? I was anywhere else than any other audience. That would be. That would not be rhetorical. If you see something dot tv that money is going to the island of to look tuvalu to value in the south pacific. Follow-up xero tuvalu otavalo alright to tuvalu. Okay, um, so well, all right. So i pay my money for the dot tony dot emma. Andi, i paid it to whatever hover or domain director, you know where you bought it from a registrar. Okay. That’s a recess, the registrar. And then they in turn, have bought it from a registry. The guys who run the dahna registry makes sense within that within the country of morocco. So more cases in the case of morocco it’s run it’s, run by the whoever’s, the moroccan internet authority. Okay, in some case, it’s much advantaged by a third party because they may have the technical skill. I don’t doubt that the two blue government, in fact, i know that the two blue government uses uses that uses a third party that help them run. That which is fine, you know it’s good for them. And how is all this? And how do do those relate to? I can’t okay, so i know there isn’t a direct relation. I mean, i know they’re not direct, but well, i can through contracts essentially has relationships with the people that do dot com dot or dot net and the new ones that air coming around the ones that are the country codes. There’s a little bit of a hands off relationship because that’s a national sovereignty thing. So i can doesn’t get involved in the national codes, but they coordinate them. So they do show up at the i can meetings. There is a relationship going, and they work on things like best practices. Okay, without i can we we would probably have duplicates all over the world. We wouldn’t be able to reach anybody. We’d have duplicates and triplets and quadrillion million connections. Think this is one of the things that tony that i think it’s really been important about. The way that the internet has developed is is that the real strength of the web is that it is a unitary web that there’s one place, that all of us can go where we can all meet online. So there’s not a moroccan web and a saudi web. Yeah, and and and and and a senegalese web. And because of that, we can do so much more together. And so one of the great things that i can has contributed, i think is, is that it’s managed to keep the international community together, given them a voice so that all of these different groups, like the user groups, like the commercial groups like the government groups, can advise the board in such a way that we can keep the web together so that we can really leverage it to the maximum impact. So you’re you know, now you now you you have, ah user base that maybe mostly in north america say, but there’s no reason why this couldn’t expand out into different languages and all over the world non-profit radio. Yeah, and that’s, partly because of the web being unitary. Unitary that’s one of the goals i think of i can is to keep it that way to try and get the most out of our way out of our ability to in-kind. But that also means satisfying the needs of people around the world. So you are now starting to see domain names that are in cyrillic that are in chinese script. There are in arabic or hebrew or hindi and so they’re not in latin characters. Now you may not be able to read them. You may not be able to use them, but the people in china or saudi arabia that are using them, i don’t care if you do or not, because they’re targeting their own language audience. Okay? And of course, i could always get to the number that’s behind those, right? So if i don’t know, i don’t know how i would do that. But i could. Well, your key bird could do arabic. Then you could type in arabic driving up there when you get it right. But short of that, there is a number behind everything. All those irrespective of the language that the address is in, right? Okay. In fact, you may have the arabic in the english pointing to the same number that conserve you in both languages. I don’t have the arabic and the english pointing to the same number. Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. Still a unique number. That’s. Right, number’s gotta be unique. Okay. All right. Now, let’s. Let’s. Bring glenn into the conversation because he’s, the one who brought this topic to me yesterday. And there is something very exciting happening for non-profits there’s a new top level domain like a dot com dot or ge glenn, why don’t you get real close tonight? Yes on dh tell us, what’s going on? Yeah, so actually the expert on this that is actually part of the p i r implementation of dot ngos is avenged and you’ve crossed it well, but i felt back you haven’t contributed yet and you brought this very interesting topic to me because actually the nancy spoke at the podium yesterday and and we’re at the inten conference and actually addressed the twenty, two hundred delegates saying, hey, we have this new ngo as not-for-profits you should be involved and i thought it was important. That’s why we did a birds of a feather yesterday that’s why were going around with our brochures on naralo informing the not-for-profits sector hey, the internet, internet governance, all the issues that are pertinent important to you actually there’s organisations particularly naralo that can assist you in this. Israel says we’re here particularly to promote not-for-profits to join as a lexus with i can okay, andrew will turn to you because you are helping with the launch. Of a new ngo, top level domain, and in fact, i was just because you mentioned it the other day. I was three weeks ago in morocco doing really doing, doing radio in morocco, actually, as part of it, right and all that brought you here. So that means you’re tony dot mm, exactly, right? So i mean, i just thinkit’s the world coming together and so perfect, right? So the idea behind a cz you know that and that’s, we’ve discussed that the internet has these amazing possibilities right for an especially corporate for non-profits if you think about it all around the world, non-profits many non-profits find themselves confronted by the same challenges they find themselves in need of partners. They find themselves in need of visibility. They find themselves in need of additional resource is and things like that. And thie as the internet. Azaz evan was describing there’s a tremendous interest in in in expansion of the internet so that so that more people can get on board can more people could take it, take use of it. There were historically twenty, some or first there were thirteen and they were twenty some different, but they called generics and those generics working like calm and like net on, like organ and the people public interest registry that brought as and have been managing dot or ge looked at this expansion of the internet that was proposed a few years ago and said, hey, there’s, a real opportunity or, like, calm like that is an open space, okay, you do not need to be a non-profit to have a dot orgel, though most many, many orders are very interesting, right? Most are, but you don’t have to be don’t have dahna same way that you don’t have to be a company to be a dot com, you don’t have to be a network to be a dot net, but that was the original taxonomy of it, right? So they said, hey, this may make real good sense if we’re expanding the internet out this make make real good sense for us to get to have a specific, targeted, safe space for ngos to congregate on the web, right? We’ll give them additional tools that will allow them to meet up that will allow them to do things and for people to find them right and have a high level of this’s the’s are in fact real ngos, and that stems out of for a whole host of reasons i mean one is the desire for ngos toe work together much more closely, which there, which is a huge issue around the world. Second one is there’s much, much more cross pollination and much, much more cross work between ngos from the global north and the global south. Donors are asking for it. The ngos themselves are asking for it. And yet, if you’re if you’re an ngo doing really great work on hiv aids in mali, it may be very difficult to get visible outside of bamako, right? And if you’re doing it from, you know, a secondary or tertiary city, its most impossible to do it. How will this new top level domain so the so the idea behind it is the way we create a a safe space, you get a dot ngo, a dot org and access to a portal and actually the ability to put up a little basic portal. Paige, if you’re if you like so that you could be found, you could be searched and found easily so that you can be you confined partners. You can share data with them and you can import your own donate button. You know you’re on your own. You’re on your own don’t donate app when every whatever you would use i would like to use so that you could receive funds directly when i was in morocco is a perfect example, right i was in was in three cities in four and a half days was in robot casablanca in marrakech. We had a long conversation with the people in marrakesh and he said, how many tourists come to america shevawn year and it’s hundreds of thousands. Right. So you think to yourself wow, we met with remember the incredible woman she’s, a pharmacist who set up a she set up an ngo to help deal with street children who were abandoned, children who were abandoned, the street, the babies or abandon in the street. And she said, you know, i said, well, how many? How many of these tourists that come know that you exist? You can afford to fly all the way to america’s ah, fifty, dollar contribution is a nothing, right it’s a dinner and yet no one could find her and she couldn’t find them. This is the kind of thing that will allow her to connect in with other ngos doing similar kind ofwork and conceivably with tourists with hotels with other people who are of, you know, who would love to give her money and love to support her work, and would never know that she existed. Okay, but tony there’s one there’s one important thing about this is that what andrew’s talking about? What dahna ngo is doing is more than we’re just going to sell you what don’t mean? Yeah now immortal it’s a community where is the other ones that are doing like dot dogs? Or died? N y c or a lot of these other let’s? Not let’s not know what what i’m saying from its not put dahna twice in the same category dot dogs, it shouldn’t even be in the same sentence. You’re from new york? Yes, and i’m wishing out there right now or dot bicycle or whatever the point is with most of these you by name, you get a name it’s like dot com that’s it and you’re on your own, right? This is not what this is. Deeper than that exactly. The goal. The goal is to create a real community and are carried a real international community with a lot of input. I mean, this is not a it’s p i r is helping to do the back end announcing the i r is right. The public interest registered the people who are doing the people who are running dot, dot launching dot ngo is the public interest register people who do dahna arkwright. Okay, they their goal, you know, there’s a there’s, a great sensitivity and it’s a valid sensitivity in the ngo communities and says who died and left you in charge? Right? And they’re very humble. And one of the things that we like about this approach is they’re very humble about it. They recognised that this has got to be a community organiser, you know, it’s got it’s got it’s got to be computer he organized pr can help the dot ngo people can help with the back end. But in the end there’s going to be it’s about and for the ngo community itself, okay with ngo governance and is part of it, yeah! You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems block a little? 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If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio, i d’oh. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. Oppcoll all right, all right. So, what way? Need some takeaways? We still have a good amount of time. We play time’s. Not that we’re not wrapping up yet. But what are some takeaways now for non-profits that have ninety nine percent there? There dot org’s people were talking to we’re listening. What? What should they? How did they take advantage of doubt, ngo, what do they what do they do? The first go to my office on monday. What do i do? Tow. Explore this more and see if i can. It makes sense for me. The first thing is to put an expression of interest and why. And what you do is you guys are laden with your acronyms. Oh, my god! Any? Oh, i an expression of introduction of interest on. And what that does is that puts you down. Puts you down is having expressed interest. There are a number of people who, for obvious reasons, have i have names that might overlap, especially if you go by your acronyms. So, it’s, good to get your name down as early as possible. It gets you on the list. It gets you gets you information. About what? When? Things are going to roll out because it’s still, you know, with anything technical, where do you go? Where do you do where you do the eoe eye? Who do i send the notice? You goto the one that i remember is g o t l d dot org’s. But there are others, and i’ll get you that in from okay, raymond. All right. So ngo t l d dahna latto or but if you could also go to the p i r dot ord website as well, p i r dot org’s also. Right. So, you know, i’m good listeners to be ableto take some actionable steps. Well, it hasn’t your well it hasn’t launched. It is a matter of getting getting on a waiting list. Effective bourelly at theo, i stage its course hasn’t launched, right? Yo, i but so what? You know so but the ideas it’s first come first served if you want to name that some other non-profit also wants to use the same name. So that kind of religion is that we don’t makes a lot of sense to get your eoe eoe eye your expression of interest in, you know, even if you may not have end up doing it. That’s what right? But claimed absolute claims in their advantage in claiming a space, of course, and then you get the choice later to actually use it or or let it let it let someone else that’s, right? It’s, not it’s, not a guarantee that you’ll get it, but and remember that space is only open to real ngos, right? So? So if a company cames in, if abc company wanted to come in, they wouldn’t qualify, so they won’t. They you know, they wouldn’t get a dot nt right, or an individual or on anything, even if i was doing that, even if you were an artist and even if you’re doing work for the public good, but still, you’re still not gonna qualify for dahna ngos, correct, okay, zsystems sorry, what andrew’s getting out it’s, a vetting system. This is a real improvement over the previous system, okay, we’re improving. Dahna what’s, the what’s, the what’s. The next step then after the expression of interest what’s gonna happen. So where we are, we in the hole i can process just generally is is that is that as as these new names have been approved right, then they have to get they have to go through their technical checkups and this kind of stuff. And then eventually they get what they put into the root. Right. Then they become available. And so what? What will happen is over the course of the rest of the year, all of this stuff will be rolled out. There are new ones being rolled out every every few weeks. If i remember correctly that’s, right? And the one the ones for for dot ngo are going to be available late in the year. It looks like and when they’re available, everybody who’s on the list will get advance warning of everything that’s happening. Your people to follow it on on our on the web sites and things like that and then when and then and then when it when it when it, when it happens when it comes live for sale and seven says it’s ah it’s a first come, first serve kind of thing there are, as you can imagine, a number of ngos that have the same name in different places around the world, of course. So if that’s one of the reasons why we’re encouraging people, especially people who are, you know, bigger networks that want to get in early, get torrio in now, as time goes on, they will be doing a whole host of launch events around this to try to sensitize people around the world and an important thing about this is it’s not just to do it for your own side, but share it with your network. This is a one of the great things about the dot ngo the community is that it will have a real network effect. The mohr ngos around the world that get into this community, the more people will be able to know, the more it’ll be easy for foundations and donors and individuals to say, i’m going to go there, i’m going to look for good, good people. I’m going to contribute. You may have heard of the of the work that people like eva are doing when you have a small micro lenders, you know, an individual can go on, give twenty five dollars to a to attu an entrepreneur in uganda imagine that on a huge scale for ngos around the world. And you got the idea that what what have done ngok very important to recognize that this is much deeper than just a top level domain, absolutely community it really worldwide commune and hopefully a real game changing technology for the ngo sector. There’s going to be hundreds of these? I mean, a lot of them are just going to go to you and say, well, if you couldn’t get what you wanted and dot com come to us, this is something much bigger than that. Okay, what else we got a couple minutes that was it sounds like a great wrap up, but i still want to spend a couple more minutes can tell you about what we’ve been doing around the world because i think it’s pretty interesting stuff. Uh, okay, keep it keep it relevant to our to our audio. Absolutely, absolutely it’s it’s just to give you a sense of what this is like, we’ve been actually talking with with ngo audiences around. The world i think we’ve done them in, i don’t know, maybe twenty different countries, at least, you know, morocco, senegal, cameroon, all over south america, india, singapore, dahna comes in different places. What’s so exciting about it is is that the feed back to the community has been that this is this is this is a really this is really good gig that they’re sure that they’re having a hard time, you know, they’re having a hard time getting the visibility and coming together because there’s not a common space. And so one of the things that we’ve we’ve made a big effort to do is to try to design all of the criteria for joining what it means to be an ngo real big challenge. What does it mean to be an ad to find across the world? So to be fair to everyone, you got it? And so what we’ve made a big effort to do is to get impact input from the different communities around the world to say, well, you know, you know, you you know, the west african community better than us give us advice on what would constitute an ngo and so that’s been great learning experience and and we’re continuing to we built this really great network of advisers and people who can give us input on, you know, does this work and and i’m guessing that this will be an ongoing process where, you know, as time goes on, well, will continue to refine and make this more and more and more appropriate to the local conditions as well as just a broad, broad international conditions i’m feeling i’m feeling very glad that non-profit radio is part of helping spread the word we’ll get, we’ll get nine thousand organizations. Well, tony it’s going to be very, very important, teo know about this kind of thing because you’re going to have this rollout of all these top level domains within the work i’m doing within at large, and i can’t there’s a really trust issue here that some of the domains, they’re just going to be a free for all, and anyone could be in there and there’s, no vetting their religion and so it’s important to know that there’s going to be some of them that are in this that are sort of a cut above from the rest. Okay, glenn yeah, i’d like to. And two that is that i suggest connecting with i can the main staff, the vp, chris mondini would be a perfect person to be a host guest issue. Okay, we’ll talk about it. We’ll talk about that after. Can people get information at n g o t l d dot org’s their information they can and there’s a booth. The dot ngo. People have a booth right as you walk into this room. Well, but what are nine thousand aren’t here? So you get you a lot and there and i think there’s another one global tl d no global ngo dot dot or guy think also is it global ngo dot or believe that that’s, right? But but goth definitely okay, of course, that stands for non governmental organization. Top level domain you gotta learn about all right, glenn mcknight. I’m sorry. Yeah. Koegler mcknight, secretariat, secretariat of naralo you spoke the least, but i want to thank you very much for bringing this up, but i’m glad i’m glad i met you yesterday. And then you brought in andrew mac. Principle of am g global. Ok, am amglobal amglobal consulting is makes sense. On day, of course, he’s also hoping with the launch of the dahna ngo new top level domain on glen, also brought in evan leibovich, global vice chair of the at large advisory of what am i messing up, vice chair global vice chair of the large advisory committee of of i can, which we all now understand is the internet corporation of assigned names and numbers i want thank you very much for revealing this this part of the back end of our magnificent internet and then also explaining the new top level domains. Gentlemen, thank you so, so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure, really joy. I learned a lot. I’ve never i’ve never heard this done in thirty minutes before. Okay, well, either we didn’t recover it superficially or we did a good job and kept a concise tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of and t c the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen. Thanks so much for being with us, i think those gentlemen very much glenn and andrew and evan and everybody at ntcdinosaur who made me feel so welcome while i was there for two days getting terrific interviews and there’ll be many more. Of those interviews to come in the weeks and months ahead next week, adam weinger on your matching gift program, and cindy gibson, our new contributor on grants, fund-raising she’ll be with me once a month. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam lever, which is our line producer, shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. This music you hear it’s by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Co-branding think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine. 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