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James Kinser & Cyndi Rowland: Be Accessible
Inclusive website design that builds in accessibility helps everyone, not only those with disabilities. And it helps you with SEO. Our panel uses the example of the MacArthur Foundation site rebuild. They’re James Kinser, from the MacArthur Foundation, and Cyndi Rowland with WebAIM.
Oliver DelGado: Go Bilingual
Oliver DelGado helps you navigate the bilingual balance in print, social and on your site, as we discuss opportunities and challenges. He’s from Levitt Pavilion Los Angeles.
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Hey. Oh, hi there. Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of Macro Stone Mia if I had to say that you missed today’s show Be accessible. Inclusive website design that builds in accessibility helps everyone, not only those with disabilities, and it helps you with the CEO. Our panel uses the example of the MacArthur Foundation site Rebuild their James Kinzer from the MacArthur Foundation and Cindy Roland with Web aim Go bilingual Oliver Delgado helps you navigate the bilingual balance in print, social and on your site as we discuss opportunities and challenges. He’s from Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles, on Tony’s Take two Grieving in your plant e-giving. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service, fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner c. P. A’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com But tell US Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine here is be accessible from the nineteen ntcdinosaur twenty nineteen non-profit Technology conference. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen NTC. You know what that is tonight? Twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Way are in the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and this interview, Like all of ours at nineteen NTC is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact With Me are James Kinzer is senior associate for digital communications at the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and Cindy Roland. She’s director of Web AIM at Utah State University. James Cindy. Welcome. Welcome to non-profit radio. With pleasure. Thank you, Cindy. What is Web aim? So Webb started in nineteen ninety nine. Two. Actually, we started with federal funding to assist folks in higher education with Web accessibility. We’ve since grown were now working in literally every sector on helping Web developers, Web designers and content creators will make their content accessible for individuals with disabilities. OK, OK, and James, I I hope I can get this right. That MacArthur Foundation seeks a more just verdant and peaceful world was full world. Thank you I’m a big NPR listener. What do you do specifically at senior associate with digital communication? What does that mean? That the foundation. Right. So my primary role is to manage content on the Web site and Tio manage over email communications, But it also involves a lot of project management. And so one of the largest projects that I managed recently is the complete redesign of our website. Look at this wonderful transition. Yeah, to redesign of the website to include accessibility. Exactly. Okay. Okay. And you, uh, you built in some grantee grantee encouragement there, too. With guides. Is that right? We’re in the process of developing developing that with the wedding team. Currently? Yeah, we’LL get to that. Okay, good. If I forget, remind me. Okay, Because the fact that you’re trickling it down it didn’t It doesn’t stop with the foundation, But you’re encouraging your grantees to do the same. Or at least a attempt. Yeah, exactly. Conscious are our learning. You’re so great and valuable. We recognized that it would be so stingy for just for us to keep that to ourselves. We wanted to make sure we were sharing that with the greater population And, of course, it doesn’t just stop with MacArthur grantees this booklet. Once it’s done, it ,’LL be available. Really, Teo. Anyone in, well, anyone? But certainly we envision that it’s going to be of use to you lots and lots non-profits non-profits. Cindy. Why is accessible design important form or with the wider population than those who need accessible sites? Right? Well, you know, and you you are hitting on a really important piece, which is, of course, everyone’s going to agree that we make content accessible to everyone, including those with disabilities, because that’s just the right thing to do. You know, anyone who has a moral core isn’t going to purposely exclude a segment of the population. But there are lots of reasons that you would develop accessibly just for typical users on DH. I won’t even go into as we all age. We all acquire disabilities, but we all typically in our lifetime have some accidental disabilities. Whether it is, I break my arm. I dropped my mouse and it busts into hundred pieces. I have, you know, some kind of ah temporary vision issue that needs, you know, Cem correction and takes a little bit time so accessible design ends up by being hopeful for everyone. It’s helpful on mobile devices. It’s helpful in virtually, you know, every platform. So those folks that are developing accessibly are not only helping those with disabilities, but they’re helping everyone. Okay, is there also an sio advantage? If we have to make it, bring it down to such a basic level, right? Which I admit. But I’m the one asking questions. You know, they’re they’re they’re also there is all right, So you know there’s there. We all know that it’s, you know, secret sauce in the background there as to how the the CEO’s air really pulled together. But those sites that are accessible end up by being, you know well, it makes sense because you’re able to call through all of the text information, and it’s able Teo, get at things that you might be presenting visually. So let’s say you have an image or you have a chart that you’re providing to visual users. If you have alternative text or you have some description, the search engines air ableto look at that text and be able to index that properly so it does end up by helping fun folks find your content. Okay. At the MacArthur Foundation, James, what raised the consciousness that in your redesign you needed to consider accessibility? Yeah, So we had a CZ. Part of our regular development process is worked with a developer to do just kind of an ad hoc scan on accessibility for the website. And then about five years ago, with new leadership of the foundation, there was a real turning point in our approach to grantmaking and s. So the the number of grantmaking areas was reduced down to a more focused number and there was a greater sense of urgency brought to the work. And it was at that time we were also looking at, um, asking ourselves the question Are we really living are our tagline Are we living this commitment to be in a I’m a more just, verdant and peaceful world? Were we truly being just if we were not giving access to everybody to the information on our website? It’s a very introspective discussion that that someone raised Yeah, that, uh, you know, that takes a lot of courage to consider that we may not be living up to our our own tagline, right? Right. So essentially, once that question was answered, way had our marching orders from from leadership, and it was something that I was already aware of and passionate about. And so it just kind of came together really beautifully. Acquaint us with the with the start of the process. How does the accessibility fit into an overall redesigned right? So for us, we actually worked with the Web AIM team to do a scan of our sight. I think that we gave them maybe twenty, twenty to twenty five pages to review. And from that review they created a report. And that report identified all of the areas that were not in compliance with accessibility and essentially ranks them in priority order. And so made it really easy for us to go to the designers and say, Hey, we’ve got all of these issues, These air, the scaled need for each one of them. Let’s incorporate that into the new pages as we design them. Cindy A. Z do that kind of ah evaluation. Where are the standards? But how do we know where they are? Is our cottage is codified somewhere? It absolutely is. So the the World Wide Web consortium that W three c has Web accessibility initiative w ay, I’m going into alphabet soup. No way. Have jargon jail on radio. Okay, okay. Transgress. I will not. So they created the web content, accessibility guidelines and I’m going to throw another one at you. It’s called Would CAG. Right now they’re at version two point. Oh, So you confined the wood. CAG died. Guidelines, Web content, accessibility, eye lines to point out yet so Google it it’LL provide all the technical standards. Therefore principles perceivable, operable, understandable and robust. Each of those principles has a set of essentially success criteria so that you know that you’re meeting what? That what that is. So let me just throw out example so that all content is perceivable. So let’s say that I don’t have vision. How am I going to perceive that content? Well, I’m probably using a screen reader to read the the What’s behind what it is that we see. So if a developer does not put alternative Tex, there’s no way for me to extract the content of that. Let’s say I’m deaf and you’ve got a video. How am I going to perceive that content well. If you have captions that I’m able to get that content, so just very simple things like that. Now you know somewhere a little more complex. It’s not way used to say that accessibility is simple, but as the Web has developed and matured, things are more complicated. But it’s still something that can be achieved when you agree. James. Definitely it’s time for a break. Pursuant. The Art of First Impressions. How to combine Strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back that is, there a book on donor acquisition. They want you to read it. Check it out. Um, helps you make a smashing first impression with donors. You will find that the listener landing page tony dot m a slash Pursuant capital P for please. You know that Let’s do the live. Listen, love. Let’s I bumped it up. It’s accelerate because my heart’s bursting with love for the live listeners. So it’s going out now. Live love to you. If you are with us, the love goes out. Like I said, it’s Sze being redundant, right? Okay, enough said live love tto listeners. We’re listening now and to those listening by podcast pleasantries to you, the vast majority of our audience so glad that you were with us whatever time. Whatever device, however, non-profit radio fits into your schedule binge or week after week pleasantries to you. Let’s continue with James Kinzer and Cindy Roland. How do we work our way into it? So that the MacArthur Foundation they asked you to evaluate twenty five pages or so and you applied the standards right? Is that something that buy-in organise that small and midsize shop could do on their own? Absolute thing, finding guidelines or the guidelines a kind of technical and the guidelines air absolutely technical. So if you’re not a technical person, you you may go read them, and your eyeballs may spend around head. However, there are lots of places that you can go, I think even just starting understanding. There are lots of introductions to have accessibility. Web dot org’s certainly has one of those. There are others as well on DH. There are tools that are available, of course. Webb has one that’s it’s free for folks to use and other people have to. So I’m not trying to just, you know, talk R R R But if someone were to go to wave and that’s w A v e wave dot web dot org’s, they’d be able to put in a whirl and wave will check for them where they are with the standards now about Yeah, that’s all it takes just Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah So here’s the rub. Only about twenty five or thirty percent of the errors Khun B. Programmatically detected by any look any tool, not just ours. Any of them the rest of them need. They require a human determination of whether or not it meets the guidelines so you could get started. Wave dot web dot or dot org’s absolutely and you know, thie. Other thing that I’m goingto mention about wave is as you look at the errors it and we describe, you know what the what The area is, why it’s important, how you can fix it. And there’s even links to little tutorials that go further in depth about that whole thing. So, to be honest, Wave is used an awful lot by developers and designers as a tool to learn about what it is that they need to be doing Okay, James, what are what are some lessons that some takeaway is that you you can share from the from this redesign? Yeah. I think a really great example of, uh, before and after a people meaning accessibility was the grant search page on our website. When we originally we’re looking at it, it was just the results were all just in a long list, and they were really wide columns of a text. So each line was really long. And as we were going through the redesign process that we recognize that this wasn’t optimized for people with cognitive disabilities. And so what we did is we shorted shortened each entry. What? I’m sorry. What’s the What’s the deficit that that they have that prevents them from reading are seeing longlines? Yeah. What is that? Specifically very questions. So a person with cognitive disabilities, the longer the line of text, the greater the chance. By the time they get to the end of that sentence, they will have forgotten what they read at the beginning. And so, by shortening the line lines, what that means is that they can increase. Is there there retention? Okay. And I will say also, for many folks that are struggling with literacy issues, that notion of them visually wrapping back around if it’s really long, then there they have to visually scan back to the leg left next to the next line. And that can become visually a difficult task, even though it’s not a visual problem problem. But it’s a visual processing problem. OK, alright, So thats the benefit in the redesign was that we took that knowledge. We sat down with the designers, came up with the new layout and moved things into more of a grid pattern. And so what it meant is that the lion lengths were shorter. But then also for typically sighted people, it meant that they could actually see more information on the page but scrolling wherever they’re scroll across. Exactly. So So this is a really great example of how we were addressing accessibility for for one audience. But then it it still had a really significant benefit for everyone else. Yeah, excellent. OK, Tio Cindy’s point earlier about the benefit for all rank. I love that. What else? You got? Another take away. What else have you learned from this whole thing? How long did this take, Let’s say, from the time that you asked Web aim to do the evaluation of twenty five pages, Tio, you felt like okay. I mean, website is never completed. I realize that, but you know, that button eyes a project manager, But until the point where you sat back and said, OK, we’ve pretty much where where I wanted to be back then, right? How long was that time? It was a three year process. Okay, Now MacArthur’s gotta have an enormous mean tens of thousands of pages. I cite you. Remember the number? I think there are a hundred. Two hundred thousand. Okay, but it’s a long front. Yeah, yeah. Okay, but smaller sites not going. I’m not going to be a daunting right. Okay, so another. Please. Another another. I’m trying to think of one of the other pages that we were working on. So one of the other, the significant takeaways is that start wherever you can like before. Five years ago, I really knew very little about accessibility, and I reached out. I took a workshop and overtime working with the designers. I learned a lot more about it. So I think using what resources are available to you. TTO learn is super important. I think it graded another example or take away from the site. Is that because something is a, uh, wait, Just have to make sure that everything that we’re seeing on the side of a CZ typically sighted people is truly consumable buy-in e other person that has a disability. And so when I’m formatting content now, I’m thinking about that. I’m making sure that, uh, was that descriptions that I put in for the photos. Are they going to be clear? Are they in the right format? Uh, it’s it’s, uh, it’s It’s not just a developer issue. It’s a content management meant issue. So I take a lot of responsibility for making sure that, as I’m formatting, that content that that I am formatting with accessibility of mind. And I’d love to just add another. Although I don’t know that this is MacArthur’s experience and you could you could certainly mentioned it is, But I think it’s so critical for folks to understand that web accessibility is not a one and done that. It has to be baked in. You know, you’d mention that you’re never really done with the website. Well, to the extent that accessibility is then part of baked into that process by by virtue of that, you’re never done with accessibility either. One of the things that we see over and over and over again, people will come to us. We’LL work with them. The folks that are on that team get it, they make those changes. But then those folks leave. They go someplace else. And the accessibility problems creep back in because, organizationally, they haven’t shifted the culture. They haven’t created a workflow that is going to sustain accessibility, even at the level of how their purchasing, you know, products, you know, widgets, naps and all that. Are they even asking the question if we buy X and embedded in our site? Is that accessible? How do we, uh, create a cultural change? Yeah, it’s t institutionally, the conscious of accessibility. So that has turned over occurs. It’s not lost weight. What do we do? Well, I think first and foremost you gotta start with a commitment from the top. I mean, if you don’t have those you know, top executives saying in our shop this is something we value and This is something we’re going to monitor every year, every two years, every whatever. We’re going to have a regular way that we look at this and it’s going to be systematic if you don’t do other things that will help sustain it. So, for example, in HR, why would it be that for technical people you wouldn’t routinely put into your job descriptions when you’re hiring that knowledge and skills of Web accessibility is, if not required, at least preferred, because that sends a message out to the people that want to have these jobs. Oh, well, apparently, this is a skill set that I need to acquire. How about purchasing? You know, if if you’re if you’re you’re webber, your other digital materials do rely a lot on the work of others. Let’s say it’s templates. Let’s say it, you know, whatever it happens to be, maybe it’s Ah, um uh, you know Cem donor-centric where you’re using, you know, how is it that you are checking to see the accessibility of the easy way to start is to ask the vendor to make a declaration of how it is that they conform to the current standards of accessibility. There is a thing called and sorry. Here we go again, as long as you define okay, as long as you tell the veep at the voluntary product accessibility template or in version two point Oh, now so don’t accept anyone that sends you a one point no document, but it’s very common to act in your in your requests and your solicitations say that you’re going to require that what you procure, what you purchase or acquire conforms toe tag, too double double and that the vendor either submit a V pat or some other kind of declaration. Or sometimes, folks, we’re just going right to give us a third party. A report of where where you stand with accessibility. Now, all is not lost if the vendor has some problems. It’s not that you don’t by the product you want, but you have a negotiation about what’s your roadmap for accessibility. If if we put money down, how long will it be in your development process before weakening exact that art that the stuff we’re hosting is going to be accessible, You know, it’s three three months of its three years, you know that may give you pause. Okay, okay. Very good. Uh, I’m gonna go back and underscore something that that Cindy mentioned earlier and that that’s leadership. Energy is welcome. So? So I just feel like it’s important to underscore that that that getting buy-in from leadership makes this process infinitely more simple, like it would be with anything and any significant initiative. Right? And And I think the turning point for the MacArthur Foundation was truly that that moment where we were looking at our tagline like I mentioned before. Ah, and for for people who are organizations that are concerned about how do I get buy-in? I think that that’s the easiest way at a mission driven organization is to look at that tack line and say, How does this pair with accessibility? And how can we, uh, make that argument? What? What case would you bring to your CEO? When you are, your consciousness is raised. Uh, how do you How do you raise? But he raised the issue up above. Yeah, I think that, uh, once I were educated Ah, a little bit more on it. I would go to leadership and and say, Look, this is this is kind of like Rex of our presentation later today is you know, it’s not just addressing accessibility for people with disabilities. It’s truly it’s truly improving for everyone, for everyone, right? And it’s our It’s embodied in our mission way just haven’t been conscious, right of of how our mission intersects with accessibility. Right? So it’s just making those two points connect. Okay. Okay, um, Cindy’s Web team did a evaluation of one hundred one hundred sites. Yeah, we were just We were just doing a quick little scan of Of where the non-profit world is in terms of accessibility. How did you pick one hundred? What we did is we went to a website top non-profits, and they had a lovely little list of the top one hundred non-profits. And of course, you know what does top mean, right? You know, But we took their list is probably names that we would roll recognize for one reason or another by budget or employees. Eyes are exactly yeah, annual fund-raising. Whatever. Okay. And and for me, the purpose was just to just to get a sense of what’s happening. So we just landed on the home page of each of those now the rationale is that, you know, as we well know, home pages get the most attention home pages get the most. Is that still true? Now, a lot of times I’ve had guests say that not to be overly focused on your home page because a lot of people coming in directly looking for the content that’s buried in your side, your sight because of because of a link that they follow, right? So for those people that have a direct link, you’re absolutely right. But if somebody doesn’t know the organisation, it doesn’t know the content that they want. How are they going to get in? They’re going to get in through your friends. They’re explored. So they’ve heard your name and they want to, right? Exactly. Exactly. So let’s say I’m a, you know, a family. And I’m feeling particularly philanthropic. I’m going to be I’m gonna be rooting around here looking at you know, where might I want to, you know, engage in sin, flandez. Okay, so we’re gonna learn about. So we went in and we we ran the wave on one hundred pages and do so when you’re when you’re back in Utah State. Utah State University. Yeah, this. So do you all do away and there are there six of you? I made it that way. I wish we didn’t run the way. Wave Runner. Okay. Yeah, You don’t You’re not doing that at heart. And I will take it on. Okay. Okay. Well, we’ll do that. Bring that back back east from here. It’s back. He’s okay. Based in New York. So it’s strange to say he’s for Utah. Okay. Wey came at us dahna aggression. We came out up from his acronym, But you’re right. We should be thinking about into a wave. Think maybe every Friday. That’s good. Alright, Anything. So we were running it through the way and way were only looking at those items that were again programmatically detectable. So how can the machine that hogan this after her to say that? Only thirty percent you said? Oh, yeah. Isn’t twenty five or thirty men are right in that vision. Indestructible Because we knew he didn’t have the time to do, you know, an in depth, blah, blah, blah. So again, we’re not looking at accessibility. What we’re looking at are errors, problems. That’s thes air. This is the low hanging fruit. This is the stuff that if you’re considering accessibility, you’re probably going to be nailing these things, right? Okay, because the things that are harder, those things that require human interaction and detective in deduction sadly, of the hundred, there were only three pages that didn’t have programmatically detectable arika cloudgood. So ninety seven percent of that sample and again, we don’t know to what extent that generalizes to the rest of the pages blah, blah, blah. But these are big organizations. These are, however measured these are And and I mean my heart just sunk because I thought, if there is ever if there’s ever a sector of our society that should be aware of this and working towards this, this should be the non-profit world. These air, the folks that are you know, the the standard carriers for lots of ethical causes and equity and rights of people with disabilities is certainly one of one of those. So I’m very sad to report that the data are that bad and we we are going to follow up, and we may end up by doing a much larger look at non-profits, not just home pages, but you know, scanning. You know, main domains and looking at thousands of pages, you probably need some funding for that. Well, you know, it’s always it’s always very helpful. If there’s anyone out there that would like to sponsor a deep look into this, give me a holler, OK? Our audiences, non-profits. Yeah, I’m not I’m not sure, but, uh, okay. Noble noble cause and yeah, disappointing. But I will say the stuff that work, the stuff that we did, you know, that was just I found internally little pot of money. We just did stuff We do stuff like that out of, you know, anyway, because it’s just part of it’s part of our mission to make sure that we’re getting information out about the state of accessibility. Does Webb aimed Is there a way I am? Stand for something? Well, it it really does. It’s the The initial project back in nineteen ninety nine was keeping Web accessibility in mind. So we have the web. Aye, aye. Accessibility in mind. Okay. And that’s the one thing we want. We want folks to keep a web accessibility in mind as they’re considering their content as they’re developing design frameworks. is They’re thinking about their coding on all levels. So this is all well, initially, consciousness raising way. Need to be aware, APS and then we can go toe wave dot web, a web dot organ, and we can begin their right. James, we got, like, thirty seconds, so I’m gonna give you the the wrap up. What would you like to leave people with? Yeah. Ah, a few things. I think the first one is that that accessibility applies to everybody and, uh, take the opportunity to learn about it. To do some research, to take a workshop, started any level on and then you can begin addressing it in many different ways. There there are small steps, medium steps, deep involved, development steps. So, really, it’s it’s it’s completely pardon of fun accessible to everybody. He is James Kinzer, senior associate senior associate, the digital Communications at the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation on DH. She is Cindy Rolling, director of Web aim at Utah State University. James, Wendy, Thanks so much. Thank you, Cindy. I’m sorry, but, uh, you’re listening to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Like all our interviews here. This one is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’ve got a free webinar coming up. It’s on April sixteenth. Tips and tricks for your nine ninety. The best part of this is using your nine ninety as a marketing tool to do some PR for you in various sections, including Narrative, but they’re going to talk about other uses for your nine ninety. It regarded regarding PR and promo. Okay, because it’s so widely read, it’s so widely available. Ah, if you can’t watch the live, you can watch the archive of their webinar weather cps dot com Click seminars, then Goto April. Now, time for Tony. Take two grieving part of your plan to giving program. As I was grieving, my well still am. My father in law’s death came very sudden in Ah, late March, and, um, it occurred to me that grieving is part of your plan e-giving program. And that happens when relatives who contact you because a donor to your organization has died and so you can’t expect those relatives to be at their best. UM, they’re going to be a little gonna be on edge. You know it’s there, not goingto be contacting you the day after the death, or even probably within a week. But when they do, they’re still grieving and you know it’s it’s likely to be a spouse or a child that’s the most common s. So it’s it’s someone close. And when it happens, you wantto handle them appropriately and keep things simple for them have a simple process to make them jump through hoops. I’ve got a bunch of ideas on managing and working with the grieving relatives when you do hear from them in my video, and that is at twenty martignetti dot com. Now let’s go to Oliver Delgado, also from the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference, and this is go bi lingual. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. That’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the Convention Center, Portland, Oregon, and this interview, like all our nineteen NTC interviews, is sponsored by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me now is Oliver Delgado. He is director of marketing and communications at Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles. Oliver, Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. My pleasure. It’s great to be here in Portland’s Great to be here with you. I agree with you and, well, not that it’s great to be here with me, but I agree that it is fun to be important. Important is a wonderful city. It’s my first time here, so I’m taking it all and so much to see. And really, in the short amount of time I see a lot of drink through, it’s started Edible Food and Drink City. I started last night. I got very lucky. There’s an amazing restaurant in my hotel, and food was fantastic. Where was the food? It’s Ah, guess. Contemporary Mexican American fusion. Okay, Yeah. Super cool Down in the Pearl District, I went Tio when I first got here first night I went Teo, I’ve always heard that Israeli food is very good. I want a place called shoot Shalom Y’All y’all like y’All I love come over. Yeah, yeah, that’s not a Finnish border. Zoho are Israeli word. It’s your long Y’All Yeah, was X there have to one in the north east, their one southeast and southwest. I think it’s funny you mention that actually just saw this really cool report on Israeli food and considering that’s a fairly recent kind of evolution and food, considering the history behind the country and how it’s really a fusion of so many different regions. And so they’re taking so many different steps to just create an identity for it. Which means the food is just amazing. So I’d love to baby check it out if you recommend it. Although I do. I had a roasted eggplant, which was outstanding. Their home is their to bully both very oath. Oh, a light, a light and tasty falafel. Very nice. Dunaj dahna like a dark brown. Not a golden battle darker brown. That was incredible. You had me at recommend Shalom. Y’All All right, but we’re here to talk about sabelo Espanol. That’s right. Expand your reach and impact by going bilingual. Why should we? What if we’re not serving a non-profit? We’re not serving. Ah ah, Spanish community, Spanish speaking or Mexican speaking community. Why should we, uh, should we abila spaniel sure this is really specific to Los Angeles, and I think for us going bilingual has to do a lot with sustainability on and being able to reach more people in an organic way, and it’s not limited. I think Spanish for us is the case study. It’s the example. But I think if you’re living in a major metropolitan city or not, we see that there’s migration patterns across the country from all parts of the world. So it may not be Spanish. It could be Russian. It could be Chinese. It could be Hindi. It could be Farsi. There always be theirs. There’s probably a secondary language being spoken in certain communities and cities across the country. So when you look at those demographics and you look at those shifts and statistics, how do you tap into those alternative language and communities essentially with your organization? If the impact or the goal is to be sustainable, to be far reaching toe have longevity. It’s about reinvention. It’s about adapting. It’s about finding different ways to use different tools to reach people. So be aware of the demographics in in the area that you are serving absolutely and be responsive? Absolutely. And I think just speaking factually, the US eventually will be a minority majority country. So it’s twenty, twenty, twenty five, I believe so. I believe by twenty twenty five. So you know, we’re at twenty nineteen, and it gives you a really good idea, especially a lot of organizations who are toying with the idea of employing a secondary language or even a third of how to start doing it connecting with communities. And that’s what I’LL be talking about today is the multi layered approach from really identifying a language to identify your audience. Is your media lists your brochures or collateral? The programming, the PR, the communications of community relations, your digital presence? Everything has to be intertwined so that your message, or rather, your intent, has has legs. How do we make this case to leadership before we get there? Buy-in. Before we can go ahead, it’s so we can start spending money. Sure, it’s looking at your, especially from a fund-raising point of view. Are you maximizing what you’re able to raise when you have an event when you have a gala? If you have, if its an electronic of it? A letter appeal for end of your donations or a seasonal campaign. Uh, whatever our whichever mechanisms you used to fund-raising Are you maximizing its potential? Right? And I think that’s the lens that we look at. Eleven l. A. It’s not only the fund-raising but the friendraising, because our impact is creating, and our intent is creating stronger, more connected communities through the yards, and it’s kind of a dual approach. We also need to be ever support the yards fiscally for us to be able to get our mission. So it’s a little more about what Levitt Pavilion does. Sure, absolutely. Levitt Pavilion Los Angeles is It’s part of a national Levitt network, and Levin Foundation does incredible work in twenty six cities across the country, with the mission of creating stronger, more connected communities through the arts and specifically free live music. So throughout the country, you’LL see cities and towns come alive every single summer, respectively, between twenty five and fifty concerts. Every Levitt pavilion that’s designated as a permanent pavilion has the task. And really, though these air structures, these air structures, Yeah, absolutely. And so we’re all tasked with creating an offering fifty free concerts every single summer, and we do so by away of a public private partnership where we partner with the city departments in the respective city that were in what the foundation helps provide some seed money. But also the most important piece is getting the community buy-in because at the end of the day, if you don’t have the commuters support for something that is intended to serve them, what’s the point? So what’s incredible about Levin Potvin Los Angeles, is that it came at such an incredible time in MacArthur Park, which is a historic park in Los Angeles. Jimmy Webb dahna Summer, Right? So they were talking about this epic park that was once the premiere vacation oasis. The Shabelle is a of Los Angeles, and over the years, over the course of one hundred years of transition from being an incredibly wealthy neighborhood to one that then became a creative enclave, really boho chic, think Lower East Side Manhattan in the seventies and eighties and then continues in transition as resource is stopped coming to the neighborhood, especially city services. You know the migration patterns, especially as the civil wars in Central America really left, warn Torrente lands and people seeking refuge, and we saw an influx of Central American refugees into this specific neighborhood. But it happened so quickly that the density literally just expanded within maybe a few years, to the point where the neighborhood, because it was such a wealthy enclave, the sing the one single family homes had to be slapped together and carved into multiple family. When and you can imagine what that looks like, right, it’s, you know. And then we saw this very specific example. MacArthur Park went from the shop Elyse Tomb or oven, Ellis Island. And it’s incredible to know that Levitt Pavilion now and where we are. We are going into a thirteenth season we launch in two thousand seven in MacArthur Park. We have reached about five hundred thousand people coming through this place. So it’s we’re moving the needle, and it’s about exploring different ways to do so. Let’s talk about some of the challenges of doing bilingualism or trilingual is you said. You know, it could be depending on your demographics. What are some of the obstacles we’re gonna have to overcome? Sure, I think some of the obstacles, I think, just from a logistical point of view, it’s the long term investment is making sure that shouldn’t organization, especially at non-profit, commit to a plan of incorporating a second language into their marketing. And as part of their brand identity is identifying, Do they want to build an in house team to manage this every day and what that looks like? Or do you outsource it? And is it more of a campaign kind of a seasonal initiative? But the issues you run into that is continuity. When you have different hands kind of touching, OH, are influencing or molding the ingredients, you may get different results. What are some of these ingredients were talking about? You don’t meddle with different communications channels. So all the different, especially the communication channels, because everything has to be interlinked from your E blast from your website to your social tio, literally your printed materials, your hyre rabbis, radio, TV billboard. Everything has to be a cohesive marketing unit, even down to the programme in the community relations, right the way we conduct those meetings and identify and select and create a lineup, it’s creating a path for all of that to be connected through a single lens, you got to take a break. Tell us it’s the long stream of passive revenue because you get fifty percent of the fee. When cos you refer process their credit and debit card transactions through Tello’s, check out the video, then refer companies to the video if they’re still interested. They found the video interesting, then asked if they would consider making the switch and then you contact, Tell us and put the two of them together. It’s all in the video at the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us for that long stream of passive revenue. Now back to Oliver Delgado. There’s gotta be more to this. I’m sure they’re then then just the language. You have to. You have to understand the culture of the the needs, the frustrations of the people in the community that you’re now trying to reach out to. It’s more than just speaking their language. Correct. You need to understand what what they’re about. Absolutely, and that is really That was the foundation of what Levitt Pavilion sought to do, and that’s create organic ties in the community. And that’s the first already start faith communities really everywhere, anywhere where the doors opened. So for us it was because of MacArthur Park, in the way that it’s structured it, surrounded by schools, churches, neighborhood organizations and businesses. It’s a very dense neighborhood. You were talking about eighty two hundred thousand people in about six square miles, right? So we’re talking about almost like the density of Manhattan, right? So I think that made it easy for us and being able to reach more people quickly. But also, it means that we have three more strategic and how you developed that plan, right? So the schools, the faith based organizations, you touch them all. You have to be able to be open, open, open toe, learning open to learning. And really, you know, the cultural nuances Just because, you know, blind ex culture is so vibrantly divers in itself, you know, from Mexico to Central America, Teo, even South America, the language changes so much that you have to be adaptable and be mindful that, you know, different words mean different things in different countries. So employing you know, the formality informal, the presentation. But ultimately is the trust it going in with an open heart and open arms so that people understand that it’s a dialogue not so much a speech critical. Otherwise, you’re not gonna build trust. Correct. You’LL have a meeting and xero and nothing correct, I think from it. So for Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles one of our fundamental tools really is our Community Advisory Council. And this is a coalition comprise of principles residents, business owners, different organization and community leaders that acted one as our sound board for potential sponsors, for just bouncing ideas on artist to come to the stage, but also to get their eyes and ears on the ground learn from them directly. What’s happening in the neighborhood that we should be mindful of should be reflective love. So you can invite community leaders in the community you’re trying to approach to an advisory committee and say, You know, this is not a not a pro forma counsel. We really want your want your input. We want your advice. That’s right. We yes, we do want your connections also correct. We need them to reach the community that you’re now serving correct, and then for us, it’s about creating the space. And so everyone has a seat at the table. Yeah. Okay. You, uh, you planning talking something about developing your marketing lists? That’s right. Best practices for developing marketing list? Sure, Absolutely. So for eleven Pavilion, Los Angeles, again, we develop our English language baseless, which means that everyone on that list has opted in when they signed on up for a concert from ours weepie to get reminders of certain shows they had option of being about to receive information in English or in Spanish. So once we get that information, they’re actually collated in that way. So the English sign ups go to one lesson in Spanish sign ups go to another, and then we target those specific list with specific language newsletters. And so that way nothing is cut out. Nothing is impacting away where you’re lessening the content or, you know, undercutting it you’re presenting. If it’s for the weekend of concerts, is providing a glimpse of what’s to come. But also who are the community partners who are the sponsors who are the different? What are the different pieces? Making that specific show so unique? So for us is being able to deliver that message in a timely way, but also easy to follow. Easy to read, as the kids say, making a very chill right, making it approachable. I’m just easy to digest. OK, anything else but best practice Wai’s best practices. I mean, I have a whole list. It just depends on how you sometime. Absolutely so. If we were to look at labbate putting Los Angeles we, the first thing we had to do is identify our audiences. And so we know that we had the task of incorporating and reaching the local community of West Lake. But then, looking at what makes our work possible. And that’s then we have our sponsors, our community partners, thie elected officials, kind of the periphery supporting cast that plays a crucial role. So identifying those audiences that helps us figure out how we present our information. From there, it was creating, enduring in on. We’re going to present our secondary language in an informal way or the informal Spanish, right? So you, you know, quick Spanish lesson. If you haven’t reverses the form, correct, you have the to form and then you have those dead form, which can be as different as a swimsuit versus a power suit. And that’s how different the communication ring communication can come across. So for us, we’re identifying that informal old home and then identifying the in house team. So that’s myself and a couple of associates where we create every single day opportunities for our bilingual approach to have legs. So through our social writing, different mechanisms to make sure that that’s observed. Um, you can’t you can’t outsource. This is you mentioned earlier like you can outsource it on what kind of what kind of consultant freelance or are you looking for? Well, we don’t because I’m not, you know? Yeah, sure, would one. What would one would be looking for? Absolutely. I think the aforementioned when you figure out your audiences and you figure out what tone you want to take is finding people who specialize in that specific thing in that culture and that culture, because ultimately this person is without you knowing or wanting is your surrogate right in the communities in just written and spoken word. So it’s how do you essentially create this opportunity for someone to learn your voice or create your voice in a way that’s organic to you and is possible for you to continue past their involvement with organization on a consultant basis. So again it’s created for digital presence. For us is massive because that’s the way that we reach more people. So the website we have when you go to our website, you have the ability of hovering and clicking on the English side to get all the information in English and then hovering over to the other side of cooking the Spanish button. Everything goes into Spanish, but the most crucial thing and this goes back to the house human capital. And that’s when you click over to the Spanish. The’s are all handwritten translations were not running it through a filter. It’s not a plug Google translate. Now Google translate these air hand rin translations because we want to present the same level of enthusiastic, community oriented and accessible information the way we do in English. Same way in Spanish. Okay, Yeah, And so that weaves into social media that we into the electron newsletters. It goes into the brochures or collateral, your swag, your videos, your programming, which is fundamental, right? Yeah, let’s talk about some events. So live events. How do you make those bilingual? Absolutely. So what’s really cool about labbate Pope in Los Angeles again, we we’ve bilingual that that bilingual asking to everything we do. So when you come onto the Levitt Lawn, you’LL see a massive led wall, a Jumbotron, if you will, and it displays real time information from set list to the vendors selling food or merchandise document partners. Any special announcements or recognitions all is per presented visually in English and Spanish, right? So there’s that step. And then there’s another layer, which is really cool is that we have emcees. Every show was the last summer, was emceed by a bilingual professional from local influencers. Podcast Media photo there. So they’re speaking in both. So they speak both languages. They’LL say two or three sentences in English, and then they’LL say it in Spanish. That’s correct. And so and this emcee not only helps narrow rate the experience for level, especially for new comers, new visitors, but it helps really set the tone of the excitement so that what is written can now have an auditory base and support, and so from commercials, as we call them to prompts from even two no smoking and picking up trash or even promised to donate on venmo or through our buckets. It’s providing that accessibility both in English and Spanish. Our sign Ege Everything is in English and Spanish in case it should the led well go out Should the sound go out and emcees can’t speak, we actually have actual signs that display the same information. And then when it goes to our actual advertising, which is placed beyond you know, our neighborhood and in Westlake and goes across the city very targeted for certain neighborhoods so that we funnel in and really reach demographics you’LL see that the billboards are staggered you’LL see English and Spanish side by side and you’LL see it for Rose and Rose and the whole point there is again presenting information at once, especially considering that you have short amount of time. Someone’s driving down the street is that you have seconds and his you know, we may have a little more time with her at a red light. Ah, and our goal there is hopefully by the end of that, you probably expanded your Spanish vocabulary. But at minimum, you know that there are fifty free concerts coming to MacArthur Park from June first two September first twenty nineteen. Time for our last break text to give you diversify your revenue by adding mobile giving. It’s not only for disasters, it’s not only for small dollar donations, it’s not on ly through the phone bill. It does not need to be through the phone bill. There are different ways of doing it that can make the donations larger. You could find out all about what text to give. Does ah eliminate some of the misconceptions you may have all by texting NPR to four four, four nine nine nine. We’ve got several more minutes for go Bi lingual. We still have some time left together. What? Absolutely, What else you want to talk about? Best, Maybe more. Best practices around the list building the membership. I’m sorry, the marketing marketing lists? Absolutely no. So I think what? Ah, very big piece, I think, fundamentally is the fund-raising. I think that’s a lens that we’re also in a new venture for us in the Spanish speaking community because we haven’t seen a culture of philanthropy and this specific neighborhood, because again we mentioned its transition, and it’s currently ah, low income community. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t create it. It just means that you make it more accessible, Easier to tap into or participate so means lower dollar fundraisers, but nonetheless, on a continuous basis. So that one people know that we need their support, but too, they can participate. How do you How do you get contact info for people who attend concerts? Sure thing s o our web. So we have kind of like a multi pronged approach. So the digital phase is on our website. There. We have a third party plug in O R. Rather service that helps present every single concert so that you can say All right, great. These are the fifty shows I’m gonna click on one, and then it asked youto ours VP, you put in your email, you select which language you’d like to receive information in, and then we’re able to, you know, grab, you know, capture that information. And then we have our community relations team that has a presence across so many events across the city that then they are actually physically collecting emails. How do they What do they say? Somebody. So they they’re walking among the audience before the show starts. Yeah, eso business, eh, Externally from our site. So if they’re out of community event, what happens? Oh, I’m sorry. He’s a community, not let us. So we have to go out. So you have tables. That’s correct. So let’s say a festival year are already all those things. You know, our swag are very appealing, so that makes it easy to bring people over. So that’s one way of getting emails. Two on the lawn again. We have our info booth, right? Very much very branded info, booth, English and Spanish information equipped with volunteers and staff. They’re also bilingual, so they’re trained cultural sensitivity, language, sensitivity. And again, that’s another way that we collect information. Because if you want to get some water, if you want to get a brochure, if you want to get a tote bag, you want to get a hat. You want to get sticker whatever it is. Once you’re there, you’re probably more likely to try to get more. You want to get more information because you’re not only receiving information, but you’re experiencing what our brand and what our mission is. Okay, I like your first point about being out in the community, not just waiting for people to call, and you don’t know that. Do you need to go out to like street fairs are great idea. That’s that’s crucial. And the thing with us is that we we want to reach everyone. So we’re all parts of the cities in different neighborhood and ethnic enclaves. Just because we want to make sure that one Level eight continues to put inclusivity at the forefront of everything that we do, too, that we make that earnest attempt of creating this organic, trusting relationships by those connections and three a letting people know there’s an incredible way to connect with fellow Angelenos and a freeway and get quality entertainment because we offer both local and international talent. And so, in a situation where L. A is an expensive city and you know, let’s say a family of four to six can’t afford four hundred dollars worth of concert tickets, right? You’re the alt correct, and so tickets, food, beverages easily. You can spend five hundred dollars in the night well, versus coming over to the level L A stage bringing your food. You know, it’s kind of a cook outside you can bring your blanket, bring your food, bring the whole family we have. Actually, we have one really cool Levitt ear, as we call them, of very staunch supporter of of ours. And her name is Nora. And every single summer she celebrates her birthday at eleven Ellen, and she brings out forty people for this, right? And it’s one of those things where it’s a great equalizer. Everyone can come whether it’s water, whether it’s juice, whether it’s a sandwich cake, they’re all coming out. Creating this potluck environment and enjoying the music and adding to the vibe at eleven Really a magical experience. We still we still actually have about two minutes there so together. So what more you’re going to share with your audience that we haven’t talked about sure that we haven’t talked about that That’s applicable for them, not about what we’ve done a lot of absolutely. I think it is just exploring the different ways that you know folks and get involved. I think media is going to be a very big point that I’m going to drive in because it’s important that people realize that should they adventure out into a second language it’s creating again those organic relationships or media. So I have conversations with Spanish media where my conversations are completely in Spanish. Right? That’s important because again you’re meeting them on their turf. I have conversations with England English media partners where everything is in English and then I have newer engagements or rather, interactions where it’s tze bilingual, right? It’s kind of reflective, right? Especially if I’m working with Gen z millennial media outlets or, you know, social media entities. It’s creating that really cool, conversational direct dialogue with them and meeting them on their turf so that when we meet them where they are absolutely so again, it helps frame the experience. But two, you know, people will be more likely to try to get involved with you if if they see that you’re making a really earnest attempt, you know, connect to their audience is that the same is travelling to another country, correct. When I think when when foreigners see that you’re you’re making an attempt to learn to use the language, your pronunciation isn’t so good. You may be the cabin. The vocabulary is not a robust, but you know it’s over between pointing and attempting and, you know, you’re you’re outreaching to them in their homeland. Correct. They’re going. They’re going to try to meet you halfway. That’s right, Right? With a little, you know, some variation of of their their English. That’s right. And what’s really same same. Exactly. And that’s and then ultimately, hyre one end this our programming, our programming, obviously, is our main product. And so we present ah, fifty percent of our baseline concert. So twenty five shows are going to be Latin genres. Right? And we’re talking about not only the cumbias and the betting is in sauces, but the acid jazz, the hip hop, the rnb thie Scott, the reggae, right? Just exploring the different visions auras of Spanish language music and presenting in away sametz correct where where they are again, understanding the culture understanding, but also helping people expand their musical pallets right there. Right, Gobi out. So the so the so The marine gay listener is getting exposed to Scott. Correct? Correct. We gotta leave it there. You’re sure? Alright. Is Oliver over Delgado? That’s right. Director of marketing and communications at the eleven a civilian Los Angeles. This is non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit Technology Conference This interview. All of them at ninety ninety Sea brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact Thanks so much for being with us next week. Grit, succeeding as a woman in Tech and how to create an implement. Great ideas both from nineteen Auntie Si. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna Slash Pursuing by Wagner’s Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers When you’re cps dot com. Bye, Tell us Credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York Thanks for that information, Scotty. There with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. 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