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Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non
profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d turn ex ophthalmic if I saw that you missed today’s show. Zombie Loyalists. Peter Shankman is a five times best selling author, entrepreneur and corporate keynote speaker. His book, Zombie Loyalists, focuses on customer service, creating rabid fans who do your social media marketing and PR for you. This originally aired December 19th 2014. I like to play it once a year. It’s it’s really valuable. Great lessons in here on tony Stake to Thank You for 2019 were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software, The Nolly Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Martin for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here’s Zombie Loyalists
Peter Shankman is a well known and often quoted social media marketing and public relations strategist. His latest book is Zombie Loyalists. He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media marketing and PR for you. He’s got super ideas and very valuable stories. I’m very glad Peter Shankman is with me in the studio. He’s the founder of Haro. Help, a reporter out connecting journalists with sources in under two years from starting it in his apartment. Horror was sending out 1500 media queries a week to more than 200,000 sources worldwide was acquired by Vocus in 2010. He’s the founder and CEO of the Geek Factory, a boutique social media, marketing and PR strategy firm in New York City. Peter is on NASA’s civilian Advisory Council. You’ll find him at Shenkman dot com, and he’s at Peter Shankman on Twitter. His latest book is Zombie Loyalists, using great service to create rabid fans. I’m very glad his book brings him to non profit radio and the studio Welcome, Peter. Good to be here, tony. Thanks Pleasure. U, um, live on the West side of Manhattan and you and you, there’s ah, there’s a pretty well known five star steakhouse. I’ll get Wolfgang’s not far from you, but you pass it to go to a different steakhouse. Direct Morton’s correct. Why is that
more. I am a zombie loyalist to Morton’s. What does that mean? I love the service, the attention to detail, the quality, the sort of where everyone knows my name mentality. When I walk into that Morton’s or any Mortons around the world, they have a tremendous custom relationship management system. When I call one number in New York or anywhere in the world, it they know who I am by my cell phone. And, uh, I’m treated with just, you know, phenomenal. Uh uh. Happiness toe here for me and my wishes were granted is aware. I know we have it, eh? Happy hour, Holiday party coming up at Morton’s next couple days. And, uh, you know, as always, I forgot to call and make a reservation. You know, I called and yesterday and said, Hey, I need a chance to get a reservation for seven people. Um, you know, there’s a night at, uh, 7 p.m. Which is, you know, the week of the holiday party. And they looked and they said, Oh, well, and then I guess their computer system kicked in. Of
Shankar, not a problem. I’ll get the Florida, you know, have it. We’ll have a great booth for you. That about, um, you know, and well, uh, tell us names. The people attending, you know, you know, you know, they’re gonna have specialized menus for them and their names on it. They really they have, ah, really high level of service that they provide, Not just to me. That’s the beauty of it. You know, it’s one thing for everybody. Yeah, it’s one thing if they just provided to me, but they do that for everyone. And, um, that is huge because, you know, being able to call when a normal person makes reservation. And not that I’m special. I’m actually rather abnormal. But when a normal person makes a reservation and says No, Martin says, Okay, greater you celebrating anything? So, yeah, it’s my wife’s birthday. That’s always after anyone. So you know what? It’s my wife’s birthday. Great. What’s her name? And her name’s Megan. Whatever. And you you go in and they and you sit down on the on the menu. It is Happy birthday. Make it. And then Megan, whoever she happens to be well, in the next 45 minutes, you know, taking 50 selfies with her menu and that’ll go online. And when her friends, you know, want that same experience, they’re gonna go. Morton’s
you say in the book, you get the customers you want by being beyond awesome to the customers you have. And that’s why I want to start with that Morton’s story, which is in the middle of the book. But they do it for everybody, and then they have the V. I. P. S as well. And there’s the terrific story of you tweeting tell that story. That’s a good story.
It’s a good
story. Stories. I was flying home from a day trip to Florida and was exhausted and starving and
they trip meeting. You’re flying down
down to 6 a.m. Lunch meeting flew back same day one of those one of those days, and I jokingly said, The tweet Hey, Morton’s, why don’t you meet me at Newark Airport when I land with a porterhouse in two hours? Ha ha ha ha ha. Um, you know, I said it the same way you’d say winter, Please stop snowing things like that. And I landed, uh, find my driver and said, Next, my driver is a is ah, waiter in a tuxedo with the Mortons bag. They saw my tweet. They put it together. They managed to bring me a ah, a steak and and, you know, as
great of a
story, is it is it that’s that’s It’s a great stunt and it’s a great story and it wasn’t staged. It was completely amazing. But you know, that’s not what they’re about. They’re not about delivering stakes to airports. They’re about making a great meal for you and treating you like world when you come in. And you know, if they just did that, if they just deliver the state of the airport but their quality and service sucked, you know, it wouldn’t be a story, you know, like they did for Peter. But, you know, my steak’s cold, you know? So what it really comes down to is the fact they do treat everyone like kings. And that’s that’s really, really important, because what winds up happening, you have a great experience of borns, and then you tell the world, you know Oh, yeah, great dinner last night. That was amazing. I would totally there again. And as we moved to this new world, where review sites are going away, and I don’t I don’t I need to go to yelp reviews and people I don’t know. You know, if they’re shills, whatever the case may be, I don’t know. Or trip Advisor. Same thing. I want people in my network quite trust and people in their network who they trust by default, I trust. So that’s gonna be that’s already happening automatically when I when I land in l. A and I type in steakhouse, Not me. I know I know where the steakhouse Donnelly, but if someone typed into Google Maps or Facebook Steak House in Los Angeles, you know they’ll see all the State Council’s on Google map. But if any of their friends have been to any of them, they’ll see those first. And if they had a good experience, only if the sentiment is positive, will they see those first. And that’s pretty amazing, because if you think about that, the simple act of tweeting at a photo Oh my God, thanks so much more to love this. That’s positive sentiment. That network knows that, And so if you’re looking for a steak house, you know, and your friend six months ago had that experience. Oh, my God. Amazing state. This is a great place. The sentiments will be there. And and And the network will know that network will show you that steakhouse because you trust
your friend. And this is where we start to cultivate zombie loyalists. Exactly. Is through this awesome customer service of the customers you have. Say more about something.
Yeah. I mean, you have so many companies out there who are trying to get the next greatest customer, You know, you see all the ads, the Facebook post. You know where 990 followers are? 10 are 1000. Follower gets a free gift. Well, that’s
saying, screw you to the original 990 followers who you had who were there since the beginning. We don’t care about you. We want that 1000. You know, that’s not cool. Um, the the companies who see their numbers rise and you see their fans increase in there. They’re, um um revenues go up. Are the ones who are nice to the customers they have. Hey, you know, customer 8 52 It was really nice of you to join us a couple months ago. How you know, how are you? We noticed that you posted on something about a, uh you know, your car broke down. Well, you know, we’re not in the car business, but, you know, you’re you’re two blocks from our our closest ah, outlet or whatever. And you know, once you if you need to come in, have a cup of coffee, will it use the phone? Whatever. You know, those little things that you could do that that really focusing the customers. You haven’t make the customers. You have the ones where the zombies who tell other customers have great your
And this all applies to non profit, certainly as well.
But even more south. Yeah. I mean, if you know, non profit, constant worry about howto make the most value of the dollar and how to keep the dollar stretching further and further. And ah, you know, you have this massive audience who has come to you who’s a non profit. Who said to you, You know we want to help Here we are volunteering our help and just simply treating them with the thanks that they deserve. Not just a simple Hey, thanks for doing it. but actually reaching out, asking what they want, asking how they like to get their information. Things like that will greatly increase in donations as well as, um, making them go out and tell everyone how awesome you are, letting them to your PR for you.
And that’s what a zombie loyalist does. And this is for this. Could be donors could be volunteers in the organization who aren’t able to give a lot. But giving time is enormous,
and, you know, if they have such a great time doing it, he’ll bring friends. As as zombies. Do you know zombies have one purpose in life? Really? Zombies have one purpose in life that’s defeat. It doesn’t matter how the Mets are doing. It doesn’t matter, you know, chance that they lost anyway. But it doesn’t matter how how anyone’s doing. You know what’s going on in the world economy. It doesn’t matter. What matters with Zombie is where they get their next meal because they feed and they have to infect more people. Otherwise they will die Zombie loyalists of the same thing. All they have to do is make sure that their custom they tell the world we all have that friend who does it. You know that one friend eats nothing but the olive garden because Oh, my God, Is greatest breadsticks everywhere, you know? And they will drag your ass the olive garden every single time they get that chance. That’s a zombie,
loyalist. And you want them to do that for your non profit. And there’s a big advantage to being a smaller, smaller organization. You could be so much more high touching. We’re gonna talk about all that. We got the full hour with Peter Shankman. Gotta go away for a couple of minutes, stay with us.
It’s time for a break. We have used the service’s of wegner-C.P.As for many years. Their service is excellent. The auditors provide clear directions and timetables. They’re professional and thorough, but also easy to work with. The answer questions promptly End quote. And that is from an HR professional in Hillsborough, North Carolina. Heavenly Hillsboro. That’s from a movie who can Ah, who can name that movie? Heavenly Hillsboro. Not to get off topic, though, but I just did. Do you need that kind of c p A support with clear directions and timetables. Easy to work with answer questions promptly. Professional and thorough. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Now back to Zombie loyalists
Peter, it doesn’t take much Thio stand out in the customer service world does it
really doesn’t, you know. And the reason for that is because we expect to be treated like crap. You know, I love this example. Whenever I gave speeches, I asked, I asked you in the audience, Who here has had a great flight recently, like at least one personal raise their hand. Okay, what made it great and without fail there. And, well, we took off on time and and I had the seat I was assigned, and we landed on time and like so you paid for a service. They delivered that service and you are over the freaking moon about it, like that’s the state that we’ve become. You know, that’s how bad customer service has been that you are just beyond thrilled that they did exactly what they said they were gonna do it. Nothing more.
Less than 20 minutes in the post office line exam, and I’m ecstatic
exactly. You know, it’s so we really are at a point where we only have to be one level above crap. I’m not even asking my client to be good. Just one level of crap. You know, if everyone else is crapping your one level above that, you’re gonna win. It’s my favorite. My favorite joke. Some the two guys were out in the woods hunting in the woods in the or just jog. It was the 1st 1 sees Ah, bear. And they see this barren bears raised up is about to strike, and the 1st 1 reaches down and tightens up his laces on his running shoes and the studio. Don’t be community. You can’t outrun a bear and just kind of need to understand how wrong. You know, I love that joke because it’s it’s so true. That’s the concept. You know, all you have to do is be just a little bit better than everyone else, and you’ll win the whole ball game.
Now we have to set some things up internally in orderto have the structure in place to create the zombie loyalists.
Yeah. I mean, you have a You have a ah company where the majority of people in your company are afraid to do anything outside the norm. You know, I mean, look at look at a cell phone company. You know, you call them. Could you have a problem, right? 18 T or T mobile? You call them that? Your problem? They’re actually the customer service will handle your caller. Actually judged and rewarded based on how quickly they can get you off the phone, Not on whether or not they fix your problem. How fast that how fast they can get you off the phone. Which means how many more calls again? Remember, I worked when I worked in America Online. We all had to do a day of customer service every month just to see what it was like. That was a brilliant idea. But you know, again, it says it was a system called Vantive for you to sign on and assumes you signed on. If you weren’t in a call, you know, that was tacked against you. If you’re in a call and it went over a certain amount of time, that was tacked against you. So the decks were stacked. Not in the favor. The customer. There are some companies out there who allow their customer service employees to simply be smarter about what they dio and do whatever it is they need to do to fix the problem. Um, you know, my favorite story about this Verizon Wireless I went overseas was in Dubai, and I landed to buy, and I turned my phone had gotten global roaming on my phone. Which 20 bucks for every 100 megabytes. Okay, so I land and I turn on my phone and it says, um, before I’m even off the plane, I get a text that you’ve used $200 in roaming charges. What the hell? You know, $300 by talking about the plan, wegner, Something’s up here. So I called Arise and a nice guy answer the phone. Oh, yeah. I mean, the first thing that was Yes, sir. You do have global roaming, but it doesn’t work in Dubai. Okay, well, that’s not really global. That’s more hemispherical Roaming, I think is the issue. And so he said, Well, look, I’m gonna be here for a week. I said, you know what? You have my credit card on file, Bill me like, I don’t even like 1000 bucks and let me have the phone for, like, a week and, you know, that, you know, 500 bucks and I’ll go over to gigs would just do something for me. Sorry, sir. I’m not authorized to do that. You can look. So what do I have? Well, you can pay $20.48 a megabyte. I’m like, I’m sorry. Seriously. Which equates essentially to be charged 2048 seconds. 3048 cents. For every I think the times for every four seconds of the video Gangnam style if I decided to watch my phone like this is pretty ridiculous. So I simply hung up, hung up on your eyes, and I went down the street to the Dubai. The Mall of the Emirates, which is the largest mall in the world, has a freakin ski slope in it. And I’m not joking. And as a ski slope in this mall and went to one of the 86 different electronic stores in this mall bought an international unlocked version of the same exact cell phone I have went next door to the local sim card store, bought a SIM card that gave me 20 gigabytes of data at 1000 minutes of talk for $40 I then put that in my phone because I it’s an android phone. I simply typed in my user name and password for Google and everything imported. And Verizon did not get a penny on that trip. Um, how easy would have been from Horizon to say, Okay, you know what? We’ll cut your brake. They still make a lot of money off me. And I would tell the world how great Verizon was to work with and how wonderfully how helpful they were. Instead, they guaranteed that I will never They will never make a penny from any international trip. And I take, what, 15 of them a year. Because now my cell phone, um, by international cell phone that I bought all I do is pop out the SIM card in my land wherever I am putting a new SIM card. So
and you’re speaking and writing and telling bad
jokes and your eyes. And every time I tell the story about variety, I make it a little worse. Apparently, Verizon tests out the durability of their phone by throwing them kittens. Read this or not, but you know, the concept that all they had to do all the energy was in power Mark, and it wasn’t Mark’s fault. Mark was a really nice guy, but he was not allowed to do that. He would get fired if you try to do a deal like that for me. And so it’s this concept, you know. The
thing is, it comes down If you
want to go go down the road in terms of a public company like Verizon of where the issue is, you could even trace it to fiduciary responsibility because the fiduciary responsibility of any company CEO all the way down to the employee is to make money for the shareholders. Future responsibility means by not allowing me, they don’t allow in. Mark the customer service agent to to help me on and take a different tack is actually losing money. Too many CEOs think about the next quarter. Oh, we have to make our numbers this quarter. I’m fired companies in other countries to nothing with next quarter century, and they make a much bigger difference because the thing okay, what can we do now? That will have impact in the next 5 10 15 years, you know, and really implement the revenue that we have and an augment and companies Americans don’t know nothing about them. That’s a big problem.
I’d buy a product line that has a lot of natural and recycled materials. Seventh generation and their, um, their tagline is that in our every decision, we must consider the impact on the next seven generations. It comes from an American Indian.
It’s great. It’s a great line. I mean, just thinking about how much money would have made for me in the past three years over just just in my
overseas, you’d be telling a story about like them about Morten like the one
about a lot of people listen to me and they wegner for a time when you Googled roaming charges variety, wegner, Google Horizon, Roaming charges. My story about how I saved all this money really came up first because I did the math. And if I had not called Mark and bought my own cell phone and done this, I would have come home to a $31,000 cell phone bill and you damn over rising one damn thing about that up to bad. Sorry about the fine print
and plus the employee who sold you the quote. International plan, right? I’m sure you told her. No way. I’m
going to Canada and they’re going to buy. I’m assuming she didn’t know where to buy was she thought it was near Canada, but yeah,
long story short. I couldn’t use it. All right, So employees have to be empowered. There’s to be. We have to be changing a thinking to the customer has to come first. The donor of the volunteer
don’t volunteer, you get at the end of the day, where’s your money coming from? Look, if you’re not profit our Fortune 100 where’s the money coming from? You know, And if you we see it happening over and over again. We’re seeing what you’re seeing right now. Play out every single day with company uber uber. It’s so funny cause uber makes you know the value of $40 billion right now. But that doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything. If people are running away in droves, which people are, there’s a whole delete your uber app movement hard. Oh God. Yet people are living. What’s the problem? Well, it’s several number one that uber is run by a bunch of guys who honor the bro code. The company was actually started by a guy who, in on business in business, insider said he started the company, get laid. His goal was to always a black car when he was leaving a restaurant to impress the girl he was with that he came out and said that And you see that culture run rampant throughout uber from their God mode, where they can see they actually create. There was, Ah, read this amendment visited center as well that they created a hookup page that showed or, ah, walk of shame Page that showed where women were leaving certain apartments like on weekends. And we’re leaving certain place on weekends, going back to their home. It was obvious that they, you know, some guy and I think they did that. And of course, just there their whole surge pricing mentality, which is, you know, two days ago there was, ah, a couple of the terrorists of the biggest Harris attacking in Sydney at that at that bakery, and Sydney Uber and Sydney instituted surge pricing for people trying to get out of harm’s way, you know, and and they later refund it.
Oh, it was a computer
glitch. You know, I’m sorry. You have a stop button. And you can when you see something happening like that, there has to be someone in the office. You know what? Not cool. We’re gonna take care of that and hit the stop button. And it was yet bad. Tons and tons and tons of bad publicity. You know, I was having an argument with one of my facebook page facebook dot com slash peter Shankman Because they said, Oh, you know, So what they don’t They don’t turn surge pricing don’t have enough cabs. They’re, you know, people can’t get home. I said, I’m pretty sure that the on Lee come, but I’m sure that no one had cab companies that I’m sure that there wasn’t anyone who had enough cars. They’re private cabs, uber’s whatever. Yet the Onley stories I read about cos screwing up during the event where uber not Joe’s Sydney cab company. You know, I didn’t see him screwing up because he didn’t turn on surge pricing. You gotta You gotta respect your customer after,
as we’re ah training for that, then not only trying to change that mind ships well in in trying to change that mindset, rewards for custom for employees that do take, go to go the extra
mile Well, first of all, if you give the employees the ability to do it to go the extra mile and understand they won’t get fired, you’re not gonna get in. Try always to tell every one of my employees you never get in trouble for spending a little extra money to try and keep a customer happy. You’ll get fired for not doing it. You know you’re fired for, not for seeing an opportunity to fix someone and not taking
not doing everything that you could
know. Ritz Carlton is famous for its current hires people not because whether they could fool the bed sheet but for how well they understand people. Because in Ritz Carlton’s mind, it’s much more important to be a people person and be able to be empathetic, and that it’s such a key word. Empathy is just so so sorely lacking. You know how many have called customer service? Yeah, you know, I have to have to change my flight. Might my My aunt just died. I really D’oh! Okay, great. That’s $200. I just want to go now. Earlier, You know, you show up at the airport, your bag is overweight by half a pound. That’s $25. I just can you just cut me some slack note. So empathy and giving the custard, giving the employees the ability to understand that the customer that sometimes you can make exceptions and it is okay to make changes.
And this is where a smaller organization
has huge advantage. It’s easier to change.
That’s what kills me. You know, I go to these try to frequent small businesses when I can. I get you something small businesses and they won’t they act like large businesses, you know, in the respect that they
Ah, they want to be respected almost
don’t have, like, a 6 6000 page code that they have to adhere to. They can simply, uh, do something on the fly. And yet, for whatever reason, they won’t do it. And it’s the most frustrating things. And look, guys, you’re acting like a big your act like Mega Lo Mart here, you know, and you’re not Mega Lo Mart, and you’re just Joe’s House of Stationary whatever it is and, you know, not be able to help me. You’re pretty much killing yourself because you don’t have 85 billion customers that come to the door after me, you know? But I have a pretty big network. And for a small business, two get killed socially, as social becomes more and more what? How we communicate, You know, it’s just craziness.
You know, we’re pretty much in a world, I think, where something almost hasn’t happened to you. Unless unless you share
it e joke that, you know, if I can take a selfie. Was I really there? Um but it’s true, You know, we do live in a world where, you know, I remember God 10 years ago. Maybe not even not even 10 years ago. I was one of the first people have a phone in my camera, you know, And it was like, 24. That’s why you can ring my phone. Right? And it was like a I think a 0.8 megapixels. You know, it looked like I was taking a picture with a potato, but it was It was this. I remember it was 2002 and I was in Chase Bank and there was a woman arguing with the teller and I pulled out my video. You know, it was the crappiest video you ever seen. I pulled it out and I said, You know, I started recording and the woman behind the cat woman, the kind I was doing The woman behind the counter was talking to the customs, saying, You do not speak to me that way. You get out of this bank right now and the country was saying, I just wanted my balance, and you and your manager comes over. I
get this whole thing
on my little crappy three g Motorola folk phone, and I remember I posted online and Gawker picks it up. I gave him E mail. The headline I put on my block was, you know, chase where the right relationship is at. Go out yourself, you know? And it was It just got tons of play and the Gawker picked it up. It went everywhere, totally viral. So
it’s one of those things here, just like, you know, this is in
2002. It’s 12 years later. How the hell can you assume that nothing is being that you’re not being recorded. You know, I I ever blowing I sneezed a couple weeks ago and, uh ah, not to get too graphic here, but I needed a tissue big time after I was done season. I remember going through my pockets looking for desperate, looking for tissue, looking around, making sure it wasn’t on camera somewhere that someone didn’t grab that for the next viral sensation. You know, I got I went to high school with a block from here, right? If the amount of cameras that are in Lincoln Center today were there in 1989 90 90 be having this conversation entirely, I’d be having a conversation behind bulletproof for myself. Yeah, so you know, you’d be you’d be talking to. You have to get special clearance to visit me probie at the Super Max in Colorado. It’s one of those things that you just like. My kid, who’s who’s almost two years old now is gonna grow up with absolutely no expectation of privacy the same way that we grew up with an expectation of privacy. And I’m thankful for that because she will make a lot less stupid moves, you know? I mean God, The things that I thought, you know, in in high school I thought
the stupid isn’t the
world. Thank God there wasn’t a way for me to broadcast that to the world in real time. Thank God
creating these zombie loyalists. And we’ve got to change some. We gotta change culture and thinking and reward systems. Let’s go back to the cost of all this. Why is this a better investment than trying to just focus on new donors?
I I love this analogy and give your fun analogy lets
in a bar. And there’s a very cute girl across the across the park and catch my eye catcher. I go up to a go. You know, you don’t know me. I’m amazing in bed. You should finish your drink right now. Come home. Let’s get it on. I’m gonna impress. I’m that good Chancellor should get throw a drink in my face. Go back talking to her friends. I’ve done a lot of research on this. That’s probably now let’s assume let’s assume an alternate world. I’m sitting there on my phone. I’m just playing like, you know, some no boards are frantically and she’s over there talking to friends, one of her friends. Holy crap, That’s
Peter Peter Shankman. I’ve heard him speak. He’s in this
fantasy world. I’m single, too.
He I think he’s single and he’s having the amazing guy I know. He has a cat you ever get. You should totally go talk to
him the very least. I’m getting this girl’s number. That’s PR, Okay. And what do we trust? More me with my fancy suit collar going over the seventies. Leaders in Hi, I’m amazing. Or the girl saying, Hey, we’ve been friends since their grade. I’m recommending that guy. You should trust me on this. Obviously, that that’s where good customer service comes into play. And that’s where corporate culture comes into play. Because if I have a great experience with you and at your company, I’m gonna tell my friend when they’re looking and I will stake my personal reputation. And there’s nothing stronger
than that. And these are the people who want to breed as his eyes
are stronger than advertising stronger the marketing
and they’re gonna share. People want to share
that. Think about the Internet runs on two things. It runs on drama, drama and bragging bragging and drama. And if you if you need any proof of that, you go and look at all the hashtags with crap that’s happened, you know, bad customer service, bad, whatever. But
then look at all
the good hash tags. You know, when our flight’s delayed for three hours and we lose our seat Oh, my God. I hate this airline. The worst A line ever. But when we get upgraded right hashtag
first class bitches or
whatever it is, you know, like that
on the whole, because we love to
share its on Lee a great experience if we could tell the world. And it’s only a bad experience if we could make everyone else miserable about it as well.
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software designed from the bottom up for nonprofits, that means for you that it has what nonprofits need, what you’re looking for. Like fund accounting. Critical. Um, no more spreadsheets for your restricted funds. Fraud prevention, outstanding customer service. You will get a free 60 day trial on a listener landing page at now. It’s time for tony steak too. And I thank you for all your support in 2019 as we wind the year down. Um, lots of listeners. Grateful. Grateful for all the 13,000 plus listeners week after week. Um, those podcast listeners. Thank you so much. If you listen live. I’m grateful to you. You know, I’m always sending the live love as well as the podcast. Pleasantries, Of course. Thank you. Uh, even when there’s just six or eight or 10 people listening live, it gives me energy. I love knowing that there are a couple of people scattered throughout the world. Doesn’t matter, really? Doesn’t matter. Listening live. I’m grateful for that. Thank you. Tuning in life. Um, and maybe there are other ways that we’re connected. If it’s ah, through the Facebook page. Twitter, um, linked in. Nah, there’s not too much unlinked in too much activity on linked in some. But however it is you’re connected. Oh, the inbox. If you’re getting the insider alerts, thank you for that. Every Thursday. Getting those. Thank you. However, it is your with non profit radio supporting non profit radio. I thank you very much. And that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s continue with Peter Shankman and Zombie loyalists.
Peter, you have a golden rule of social media that that a good number of customers like to share and people are gonna keep doing
it. People will always share. Um, again, it goes back to the concept that if you create great stuff, people want to share it because people like to be associated with good things. If you create bad stuff and my stuff, I could meet. I mean anything from, like, a bad experience, too, that content people not only won’t share that, but we go out of their way to tell people how terrible you are. Yeah, um, you know, how many times have you seen companies fail horribly? Uh, you know, after major disasters when companies were tweeting, um, you know, completely unrelated things after after random school shooting? No, it was after the shooting at the theater in Aurora, Colorado. The Dark knight, the tweets.
Hey, shooter’s, what’s your plans for this
weekend? You know, and I’m just going, really, you know, But of course, the thing was, the thing was retweeted millions of times, you know, with a sort of shame on the way. So wait, We’re society. Like I said earlier, that loves to share. When, When great things happen to us but loves to tell the world when we’re miserable, because we’re only truly miserable when you make everyone else miserable. Um, it’s funny, you mentioned, Ah, generosity. Siri’s the one of my favorite stories, which goes to sort of a bigger picture of culture and somehow when you’re just doing your job, because that’s what you’re supposed to do your job. But you don’t realize there are ways to get around that. I I listened to your podcast, among others, when I’m running through Central Park on Dhe, more like if you know my body type more like lumbering through Central Park. But I get there. I’m an iron man, I have that. And, ah, so I go to Central Park and it’s super early in the morning cause I usually have meetings and I don’t run fast. I run like I really don’t run fast, but But as I’m running,
but let’s give you the credit that you have done a bunch of iron Man,
I have try. I do. I do it, you know. My mother tells me that I just have very poor judgment in terms of what sports I should do But, um, on the flip side, I’m also a skydiver, which is with my weight is awesome. I fall better than anyone, but so I’m running through Central Park. Last year it was February, February of 13 and 14 of this year. And, um, it was around 4 45 in the morning because I had a Canadian meeting and have you 10 miles. So four foot of the morning running about, but hopping around 1979 88th Street on the east side in the park and a cop pulls me over. And what you doing? Look at him. You know, I’m wearing black spandex. I have had it’s five degrees. I don’t want you playing checkers, you know, like I’m running and it’s like, Okay, can you stop running? I’m like, OK, does that give the park’s closed? No, it’s not. Look, I’m in it. Look around. There are other people who know part doesn’t open this exam like he’s ago. Would you have any idea? And you’re like, No, I’m running because what you name, I’m like, seriously, I’m writing you a summit. I’m like you ready? Made some. It’s for exercising. I just want to clarify that you’re writing. And sure enough, the guy wrote me a summons for exercising in Central Park before it opened. The charge was breaking the violating curfew. You know, I’m like I get the concept. The curfew is to keep people out after 2 a.m. It’s not to prevent them going in early to exercise, to be healthy. I’m like, I’m not carrying a six pack. I’m not drinking a big gulp. I’m not smoking. I mean, I’m doing something healthy, and you’re writing me a summons for it. Um, I said I’m gonna have a field day with this. I said I have some fathers. This will be a lot of fun. I’m not. You know, you’re just doing your job Serve even though you have the discretion not to. But Okay, so I go back home, take a picture of me, take it, e mail it to a friend of mine in New York Post front page New York Post next day. No running from this ticket. York Times covered it. Runner’s world covered. I mean, I went everywhere. Gawker covered it, you know? And my
whole thing was
just like, Dude, you have discretion. Look, at me. You know, I’m not.
I’m not even going super fast, for God’s sake.
I’m just just trying to exercise here, you know? And
of course, I went
to court, and I beat it. But how
they cost the city for me to go to court fight this thing. You know, every employee you have to give your employees the power of discretion. The power of empathy to make their own decisions. If you go by the book, bad things will happen.
And again, small shops. So much easier to do. Yep. Flatline flat organizations.
I worked with a nonprofit animal rescue non profit. A friend of mine was a skydiver and shut him out. I can’t, but But there’s a friend of mine, Scott, ever. And she was killed in a base jump several years ago, and her husband asked to donate her memory to this non profit. So I set him a check, and about three months later, I get a coffee table book of mail and I was living by myself. The time I didn’t own a coffee table. It was, you know, more money to spend on my flat screen. And I remember I call I look at this coffee table guy throw I throw in the corner. I look at it over next couple days. It pisses me off on how much How much of my donation did it cost to print? Melon produced this book to me, and so I called them up. Well, sure. We believe most of our donors are older, and I prefer to get a print version as opposed to, like digital. You know where they throw it away, Like you don’t traditionally, but Okay, um, I’m like, So So you’ve asked your you’ve done surveys in. You’ve asked, You
know, we just assume the
most number older. I’m like, Okay, I open my mouth lineup joining the board and spent the next year interviewing customers, interviewing every current and past donor about how they like to get their information and shock of shocks. 94% said online. And so over the following year, we launched Facebook page, Twitter page. Um uh flicker account, YouTube, everything. PS the following year for that, donations went up 37% in one year in that economies, right ran away tonight. Donations went up 37% in one year, and they saved over $500,000 in printing mammalian reproduction. Imagine going to your boss, boss. Revenues up 37%. And we saved 1/2 $1,000,000 in Boston about your really good beer. You know, all they had to do was listen to their audience, be relevant to the audience you have, and they will tell you what they
want. We have tons of tools for segment.
Oh, my God.
You gotta listen to what segment you want. People want to be.
You know, someone someone asked me today. You know what? What’s the best way? I knew nothing about their company. What’s the best social media outlet for me to be on? Should be on Twitter ship on Facebook, I said, I’ll answer that question. If you can answer this This this question to ask you is my favorite type of cheese Gouda or the number six. I understand that’s not a real question. Look, neither is yours like I can’t tell you where the best place to be your audience can. I said, Go ask your audience. Believe me, they will tell you there’s a gas station. The Midwest come and go. I love the name K u M and G O. And there, Tad,
you can read more about
the tagline is always something extra. I
mean, come on, the jokes just
right sells for God’s sake. But
then I’ll take themselves too seriously, that ghost knowing the name of
the company gas station. And I remember there in Iowa and I went to visit a friend and I went I was like, You’ve got to get a photo of you in front of coming goes And the
beauty of this is that some of their employees
actually look at their customers when they’re on their phones. In the stores
go. You know what you use Twitter or Facebook?
And they say,
Oh, you and the record that information and they know it. Customers will give you so much info if you just ask them, because then they feel
invested. They feel invest in your company. They feel like they that you took the time to listen to their non profit requests or their their their questions. And they feel like they’re radio for Harrow. Every month we have a one question Harrow survey, you know, heroin question survey, and it would get like 1000 people respond. I’d spend the entire weekend emailing Everyone responded, thanking them personally and took my entire weekend. But it was great because I would wind up happening. Is that you know, if we took their advice and launch it on Monday with the new thing?
Oh, my God. How did this They took my advice?
Yeah, was your advice to 800 other people Advice. But we
took it and it just
It just made them so much more loyal. And they tell hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people we get in. There were days. I got three days where I was in Temple one morning, the Garment Center synagogue and my phone. I feel like phone getting really hot in my pocket, which is not normal. And I start hurting. I look at it. It almost fired. It had frozen because we were mentioned in Seth Gordon’s morning blogged, and at that time, I was getting emails. Every time we get a new subscriber and the phone actually frozen and was locked and and was like overheating, I t at the battery and reset the entire phone because we’ve got so many new 14,000 subscribers in, like, three hours.
I’ve seen some scene you say. Excuse me? You say that customer service is the new advertising, marketing and PR. Yeah, it
really is. Well again. You know, if we’re moving into that world where so imagine a lava lamp. And I love that. I can use this now. Imagine a lava lamp. A lava lamp has water, oil and a heat source. Right. Heat source heats the oil. The oil flows with water. It makes pretty colors. I’ve heard it looks really good when you’re high. Now I’ve heard. Now imagine if crystals imagine if you’re, uh, everyone you meet in your network, okay? Is a drop of oil. The water is your network. And
what is your world? Everyone you meet in your
network from from the guy you’re sitting doing the radio interview with to the guy who serves you ice creams, local deli to the guy who does your dry cleaning to your girlfriend to your wife to not same time to your kids. Second grade teacher to your second grade teacher years ago. Everyone you meet is in your network, You know, right now, when Facebook first started I would see the same weight
from a kid. I was in high school, his post with the same weight as like my current girlfriend, which is ridiculous. I don’t need to know about everything.
My friend from junior high school’s doing even talking kid In 15 years, Facebook’s getting a lot smarter as Google. Now I see the people I communicate with the most okay, and if I if I reach out and connect with new people, they start rising in my feet and my stream. If I don’t they fall. It’s just like a lava lamp. Every person you connect with is a drop of oil. That heat source at the bottom that’s rising. Raising or lowering those drops of oil is relevance. So imagine the heat sources relevance. And the more I interact with someone, the more the higher they go
in my network in the more I see of them, the more trust level
there is. When I’m at a bar and I meet someone in a restaurant or conference, I meet someone. I don’t need
to connect them. I don’t need to go on Facebook. Friend request
that, you know, awkward
friend requesting is when you stop to think that last
friend requested some of the real world was second grade. Will you be my friend? My daughter’s doing that because, you know, it’s like
cat Will you be my
friend? Kind of. The captain will be here,
but you know, it’s this awkward thing. Who the hell friend Request someone. If I hang out with
you the bar and we connect again and we talk and we go out of dinner and we’re having a good time. We’re friends. I don’t need to first request that you, you know, that’s going away. Friending following liking and fanning is all going away. What will interact is the actual connection. So if I meet with you and I have a good time with you and we talk again if I use your business, if I go to your non profit, if I donate, if I volunteer, whatever network knows that the more I do that, the more interact with you. The more you have the right to market to me and the more you will be at the top of my stream in the more I will see information about you, the less I will have Thio search for you. But if you do something stupid or we’re no longer friends Yeah, you’re gonna fade. I don’t unfriend. You just disappear. Unfriending is also awkward. I dated a woman. We broke up. It was nine months after we broke up. Neither of us want friend, the other one, because it’s just awkward. I woke up in front of me, but you know the concept of not having to do that of just, you know? Okay, I haven’t talked in a while. I don’t see
your post anymore. It’s the real world. And if you’re not feeding zombie loyalists, they can start to defect. No question about it. I want to spend a little time on. If you’re not talking to them, giving them what they want,
talking about their information, helping them out, they will gladly go somewhere else to someone who is. You know, if I have a great experience of the restaurant every week for three years and then
all of a sudden overtime,
I’m noticing less unless that restaurant’s doing less and less
to ah, take care of me, you know, and maybe management’s change. And I don’t feel that you know I’m ripe for being infected by another company. I’m right for someone else to come. You know, Peter, because if I tweet something Wow, I can’t believe I have to wait 40 minutes for a table that didn’t used to be like that. If if someone else is smart restaurant, they’re following me, and they’re gonna great. You
know, if there’s no Wait, no, wait over here. Why don’t you come to black storms
will give you a free
drink, you know, you know, and that right there, that’s first sign of infection. And I might become infected by another by another company becomes on the little us
for them. And so let’s take. You have a lot of good examples. Let’s take a one on one situation. How can we start to cure that? The simple act of realizing following your customer’s understanding when they’re not happy on fixing the situation before it escalates, you can contain a small outbreak, a small outbreaks, well, viral outbreak. You can contain that by getting the right people finding out what the problem is getting into one room, fixing their problem, healing them. You have a good united story right back When was Continental?
I was, Ah, frequent flier and booked a trip to Paris on Dhe was very angry because they charged me $400 looking for you. I remember what it was. And, uh, I call the CEO. I just just for the hell of it. I’m like, I’m
gonna I wrote a letter and email before Social, right? Ryan e mailed the CEO like this. Ridiculous. I’m free,
like, 30 minutes on my phone rings. Hello, Peter, Please hold for Larry Kellman, CEO of Coming little. And I’m like, Oh, crap, you know, and get on the phone. He’s like, Peter, I did. Miss Jackman radio started these fees of their new um, we sent that note. I’m getting it and see it. We’re gonna wave them for you, But you have any more problems, you know, feel free to call me and I end up the phones the next 40 minutes, sort of staring at it like holy crab Larry killed on the CEO of United Airlines just called me and, uh, talk to me, and it was like it was like God coming down and say you now have the power to levitate your cat. It was just ridiculous. And so, you know, I have been faithful to Continental and now united ever since. On Dhe. They continue to treat me with respect and do great things, and they’re
they’re improving. They were
getting a lot of crap over the past several years, and there really are starting to approve. It’s nice to see
and not only, of course, your own loyalty, but you’re
my God. I
was only loyalist for them and how many times how much it’s unquantifiable
attract so many friends to united. I’ve made so many friends. I mean, my father, you know, he only flashing at it now, which means he only drag. He dragged my mom on the Internet and I only drink my wife. You know, there’s a lot of lot of work that way.
We gotta go away for a couple of minutes when we come back. Of course, Peter and I are gonna keep talking about his book comes out in January. Zombie Loyalists,
Time for our last break. Ever wonder why some nonprofits are always mentioned in the news? It’s because they work to build relationships with journalists who matter to them, turn to Communications can help do that for you. They are former journalists. They specialize in helping nonprofits build meaningful media relationships that lead to great coverage. They’re a turn hyphen to dot CEO. We’ve got butt loads. More time for zombie loyalists.
You have some examples of zombie loyalist leaving and mass like dominoes. Netflix. They’re both They’re both in the book. So if so one leaving if you know you’re gonna start the cure One leaving?
Yeah. And that’s the thing. You know, the little expand beauty, the Internet with the hashtag, everything like that. It doesn’t take a long time for those things. Just blow up in your face. And you know, the other day everyone’s a Twitter is responsible for us losing another non you’re responsible for using, you know, And if your product isn’t great and you’re your actions, don’t speak well of who you are. Then there’s no reason your customers should stay with you, you know? And it was l Social media is really hurting. I know you’re hurting yourself. The only difference is that social media makes it easier for the world to know.
Yeah, they’re just telling the story. Dominoes and Netflix are good example because they they bounce back. They took responsibility and
they both owned the dominoes, came out and said, You know what? You’re right. Our pizza and we do have a problem. We’re gonna fix this and they spent millions fixing it. And sure enough, they’re back with a vengeance. Now, I may or may not even have ordered them around in a while, and I live in New York City. That’s that’s a That’s a sacrilege. But you know, I have the app on my phone from oversea. No traveling somewhere. I’ll be in Sheboygan or whatever. And you know what? Do you get it 11. 30 at night when you’re flights, Lady land Dhamma? Um, which reminds me I should probably flip side. Look at someone like Netflix. They also were screwed up. You know, they were losing that. Tried to switch between the two. They came up with a new name and it was so gross and public. Oh, man. Again, you’re watching the same thing happen with uber right now. Seems to be really interesting to see if they’re able to repair themselves.
Listening is important, but both those both those two examples, they listen to their customers.
Think there’s a
problem with listening because everyone’s been saying, Listen, listen, listen for months and years and years and years now, But, you know, no one ever says that you have to do more than just listen. Listen, actually follow up. Yeah, it’s one thing to listen. You know, I used to having my wife. I could sit there and listen to her for hours, you know? But I don’t actually say anything back. She’s just smack me, you know, and go to the other room. And so you really have to. It’s a two way street. Listening is great, but you respond. And look, I think it’s that further Twitter so great, because someone was complaining on Twitter and we went online. We we saw
the complaint that we fixed their problem and gazes. How about if the
problem don’t exist in the first place? You know, because the great thing about Twitter is that you have people complain on Twitter. The bad thing about it is there, complaining about you on Twitter. So it’s like, What if the problem didn’t exist in the first place? What if What if you empowered your front desk clerk to fix the problem so that I didn’t have to tweet hurts is my favorite story about all this, huh? I used to rent from Hertz religiously. Um, and then I went to Ah, Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport has passed April. And I gave it, was giving a speech and go, Oh, my name is supposed be on the board, you know, second car, and it
What happened? I got upstairs. I wait 40 minutes on the VP line. Um, after 40 minutes, they finally said, you know, there’s Ah, uh, only one guy here. A lot of people might have. Better chance we go to the regular line, okay. Probably told us that a little earlier. The regular and spend 45 minutes wait in the regular line. It’s now been.
Are you tweeting while this is happening?
Well, I didn’t know I was actually not only tweeting I had enough time to create a mean that should give you some idea of how long I was online with myself. I mean, I get it to the counter, how I can help you. Yeah, I was downstairs. The VP doesn’t tony. Oh, you’ll be a preservation room upstairs. Yeah. Okay. Let’s let’s put a pin in that. They just sent me up here, like right? They have to help you. Well, it’s not really They you guys for the same company. I mean, I could see the reservation on the screen. You you can help me. Sorry, sir. I can’t help. You have to be happy next. Like you just next to me. Okay, so if you know anything about Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix Um, all of the rental car coming through in the same place. Yeah. So I walked 50 feet.
It’s a bus. Takes you to the big the big A civilian. Where? The role. Next week
I walked 50 feet from the cesspool of filth in depravity That was hurts to the wonderful Zen Garden of Tranquility that was Avis. And in four minutes, I had a nicer, cheaper, more nicer, less expensive car given to a woman named Phyllis, who was 66 moved to Phoenix from Detroit with her husband for his asthma. I knew this because she told me. Um, she smiled at me. She brought her manager out and said, adds another refugee from Hertz and I said This happens a lot. They’re like, Yeah, I’m like, Wow, you think they have done something about it? And so on the way out in Avis, I thank them. I walked past hers. I shoot the casino, sort of. Look at the look of the beast. I get my Avis carnage at my hotel. I want to go to a hotel. I write a wonderful block post about my experience called Peter and hurts. And terrible. Horrible. No book could really bad customer experience. Do you have a kid? You find rewriting titles about your blood Post that you have to do with kids books. I do not like hurts, Sam. I am. And and, uh, I included in this block post the five things I’d rather do than ever, uh, rent from Hertz again. I think number three was It was Ah, ride a razor blade bust through a lemon juice waterfall. Um, with just, you know, and it’s a But of course, the next day hurts reaches out to me. J. Manuel is the head of North American customer service. That’s all you’re But I’m like, you know, we’d love to have up Nick. No, Like you’re not gonna fix the problem. Number 17 Avis car. I’m never going back to her. Number two through five people yesterday, five people interacted with all of whom had the chance to save me and keep me as a customer for life. A customer had been so happy, and I would have loved you. Five people blew it. So don’t waste your time trying to convert me back. You’re not going to. What you want to do is spend some of that energy retraining your staff to have empathy and to give them the ability and the empowerment to fix my problem when it happens. Because five people it takes every single employee to keep your company running. It takes one to kill it. Yeah, PS Avis reached out, um, to thank me personally. And ah, I am now just this ridiculously huge, loyal fan of Davis and always will be.
You have a pretty
touching story. But when you worked in a yogurt shop, you’re really young way. Have a couple minutes, tell it, tell it could stay.
That was in the east side. Which again is yet another reason why I live in the West Side. Nothing good ever happens on Manhattan’s East Side. So I was. I was working and I can’t believe it’s yogurt, which was a store that I think back in the I c B Y. No, no TCB. Why was the country’s best yogurt the country’s I C B I. Why was a poor I
can’t believe that you can Blame is
not your yogurt with a poor attempt to capitalize on his TV. But I’m working at this store and I go every day and make the offer to clean the floors. I do.
You know, a
typical high school job. And, uh, it was during this summer and houses of people walking by It was like Second Avenue or something. And there were these brass poles that hung from, you know, there was awning, right? It’s only that there were the brass poles that held the awning up and they were dirty as hell, right? I’m sure they’ve never been polished ever. And
I found I found some brass
polish in the back, all right, but in the back and went after anyone outside, and I’m positive polishing the polls. My logic was, if the polls are shiny and people saw them. Maybe they come into the store. Maybe they’d wanna, you know, buy more screenplays and the manager came out.
What the hell are you
doing? I told him what I thought.
I’d hate to think. Get inside.
You know, there’s no customers in there. Okay? I’ll make sure the yogurt still pumping it full blast. And I quit. I just quit that job. I mean, I couldn’t even begin to understand why someone would invest. I mean, t own a franchise, bring 50 grand to at least to buy that franchise. Why wouldn’t he invest in the two seconds it took a little elbow grease to make the posting That might bring in more customers. What the hell And you know,
But you’re not paid to think
you’re not paid to think my favorite line. Yeah, um, I just I encourage if any kids are listening to teenagers. If you if you boss says that to you, quit, quit. I will hire you. Just quit. It’s probably the worst thing in the world that you could possibly do because you have customers who you have customers who every day can be helped by people who are paid to think, and that’s the ones you want. Here.
We got to wrap up. Tell me what you love about the work you do.
I get paid to talk. I mean, my God, that’s the same stuff I used to get in trouble for in high school. But on a bigger picture, what I really love about it is being able to open someone’s eyes and haven’t come back to me. Um, I run a series of masterminds called shank Mines Business masterminds shank minds dot com their daylong seminars around the country. And I had someone come to meet, you know, I took your advice about X y Z, and I started listening a little more. And I just got the largest retainer client I’ve ever had in my life by a factor of four. She goes, and I just can’t even thank you. Never said gorgeous bottle of tequila can’t even thank you enough. Oh, my God. Being able to help people, you know, at the end of the day where I have yet to find another planet suitable for life, I’m looking. So we’re all in this together. And if that’s the case, you know, why wouldn’t we want to help people just little bit more. You know, there really isn’t a need to be, as do she is, as we are as a society, we could probably all be a little nicer to each other, and you’d be surprised. A little help.
The book is Zombie Loyalists, published by Pal Grave. McMillan comes out in January. You’ll find Peter at Shenkman dot com and on Twitter at Peter Shankman. Peter, Thank you so much. Pleasure
was mine. Thank you.
Next week I’m working on it. Trust me. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Math and software The Nolly Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Montaigne for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO
creative producers Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great