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Nonprofit Radio for August 24, 2018: Your Website Redesign & Overmarketing

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My Guests:

Oren Levine, Lisa Ghisolf, & Emily Patterson: Your Website Redesign
It’s your step-by-step guide to a website makeover. Let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference is Oren Levine with International Center for Journalists; Lisa Ghisolf with GizmoCreative Factory; and Emily Patterson, founder of BeeMeasure.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Overmarketing
Amy Sample WardIt drives Amy Sample Ward bananas. Let’s talk through her issues and preventative measures. She’s our social media contributor and the CEO of NTEN, Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 

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Oh, hi, hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into a habit ood if you told me the dull idea that you missed today’s, show your website redesign it’s your step by step guide to a web site makeover let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the non-profit technology conference is orin levine with international centre for journalists. Lisa gets off with gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measure and over marketing it drives amy sample ward bananas let’s talk through her issues she’s, a social media contributor and the ceo of n ten non-profit technology network i told you to, i’m wagging my finger, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p well, you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weather cps dot com bye tello’s durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s on by text to give amglobal donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine here is your website, redesigned from non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re hosted by the non-profit technology network, coming to you from new orleans in the convention center. This interview, like all our eighteen ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits, i guess now are orin levine, lisa gets off and emily patterson, or in his director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa is founder and creative director at gizmo creative factory, and emily patterson is founder. Be measured that’s b e like the insect welcome buy-in. Your seminar topic is gourmet taste on a pizza budget. Tackling a website, we design for small non-profits, and i noticed that in your session description, use the word small three times. That’s perfect for non-profit radio because our twelve thousand listeners are in small and midsize non-profits. So i don’t have to admonish you or remind you even taylor, your comments too small and midsize or no, i don’t, because it’s, you’re right, it’s in your dna, it’s in the dna of your workshop topic, anyway, get carried away. Personal. Okay. What what are the challenges? Let’s, start down there with emily on the far end? What are the challenges with website redesign? Hyre? Definitely, i compare website redesigns, teo doing laundry, at least at my house. Okay, that it’s something where it feels like you put all this work into it, and then when you’re done well, there’s a whole new basket of laundry, and you need to start all over again. Yes, it’s, a project that it could take over here and then it’s. You know, another year passes by and it’s, time to start redesigning your website all over again, because technology and trends change so frequently, something you have constantly have to keep up with. What do you part of what you described way? Have you done your workshop yet, or it’s coming? No it’s tomorrow at one thirty and that’s a preparation for you? Okay, she’s like a batting range, putting, putting green. I don’t know too much. I don’t be doing sports analogies that that was a mistake i don’t anything about. I don’t know anything about either of those sports, football or tennis, so okay, what do you need? What do you need to have in place? Could we start with you? Lisa, can you could you adjust that one? What do you need to let in place? But think about before you embark on hiring someone to do it or doing it in house? What do you need to think about? You really have to think about weirder site is now and if it’s working for you and if you comptel, if it’s working for you, since we generally have analytics, but also are you getting the results that you want out of it? Are your constituents getting what they need out of it all of that kind of thing? And then it’s just improving upon what you have if its content or design usability, all of those things, okay? Or you want to add wear at the pre stage now, exactly. And this is in some ways where the small comes in, because one of things your back of your mind is, is what resource is do you have realistically to approach the project, which will probably be less resource is than you would love to have? Especially if you know you’re looking at other websites and say, oh, i’d love to have a website like name your large corporation here and because you’re not small non-profit you can’t. And in addition to the questions, lisa was passing one of the question, in fact, you need to ask is, you know, why do i have a website at all? You know, it’s really gets down to what am i doing? I’m murcott what’s the purpose why do i want people to visit me in the web but who’s coming to visit? What do i want them to do when they get there? And by being really careful about asking those questions that helps you match what you could do there to the limited budget you’re going toe? How do you overcome this stick of the orange? How do you overcome not knowing what could do? It is not your site is not doing it now, but it could, but but you don’t know. What it could do because you’re not already exploiting that. How do you feel that gap, that knowledge gap? Well, it’s ah, sort of a balance between what what it’s already doing, what it could do and what you wanted to do. And a lot of what we talked about in our own organization was trying to distill down of all of our laundry list or went backto the laundry analogy, a laundry list, emily’s basket wish list of all the things you wanted to do or could do or might do an ideal world. It’s really important to try to focus down on a few very, very critical things that you want the website to do. Focus your efforts there that both helps focus the minds of the people who are responsible for the website and then focusing your budget on a realistic set of goals you can achieve. So you might brainstorm and then and then and then focus exactly two realities. Okay, okay. See about something else you pledged to cover in your workshop. Hold your feet to the fire. Think about who to hire. Whether you need is who wants to take this one first? Whether. Whether you need expertise, we don’t necessarily have to go in line. One, two, three, three, two, one, which i don’t i don’t like that, but we can now for now anyway. There’s soup for now, but i’ll bring it up if we keep up with us whether whether you should a lot of small orcs probably do need help, right, then we’re gonna need some technical help. This website project definitely on dh speaking as a designer and developer, generally i come in when they don’t have those resource is on staff, or if those people are overwhelmed and speaking to lauren’s point, sometimes you can brainstorm with those people and find out exactly new things that you may not be aware of ways that you can integrate databases better, etcetera on improving communication. So, you know, so much of it is just what you’re re sources are and what you’re willing to put forth. So you’re often in the role of having tio make the expectations fit the budget. Yes, we can’t do that yet. I know you would love to, but if you want to do these other things that you said were playing top three priorities. And we can’t do this. You can’t have six priorities. Yeah, i’m a big believer in phase development, so if you could do it in six months, then we’ll do it in six months when it’s more feasible. Okay, how do you, uh, how do you message that reduction down, too of reality when it when you’re talking to the ceo executive director? Oh, gosh, i mean, i basically put it the exact same way that we can do this in six months. We can still make it happen with the budget that you have, but if you want to put more towards that, then of course, we could make plenty of things happening now, so okay, so bring it down. Arika money. Yes. Way to spread it out. You can have it, but it’s gonna take longer. Okay? In fact, one of the things we talked about in the session is sort of tricks. I learned i was emily start going out orders don’t get going out at one point, i want i want to head over to emily because she’s really the expert on how to manage to ceo seo, i’d better let her speak for that. I’m not going sequence. I don’t want you to continue, okay? My my one question is that one of the now now a great host, it’s time for a break, pursuing their newest paper is pursuing e-giving outlook it’s a roundup of all the fund-raising data that you need, they took the latest fund-raising reports boiled them down to the essentials into a concise content paper, plus there’s a video archive of the weapon, or that they did around this whole subject. It’s, an ensemble piece, paper and webinar both on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now, back to your website redesign say something talk emily yeah, it was like they had a message to you, ceo message manage expectations about the top level uh, so i think one of the things that people don’t realize, especially at the top level around website redesigns is just yeah, how much, how much work and how much? And thus time and money is involved, and i think having teo yeah, message and set expectations around that is a big challenge buy-in vices that i’ve worked and now in a zoo independent consultant, my point of contact is typically, you know, you’re marketing director or your communications person who have, who handles all of communications and all of fund-raising so kind of a mid level person and being able to work with them to help them set expectations with there with their boss around the web website, because i think a lot of a lot of executive directors, you know, they’re a little bit detached from the project and, you know, they’re looking online, and they’re seeing all of this awesome stuff that other organizations or, you know, even for-profit companies are able to dio and they don’t realize, you know how much time and money needs to go into that. I’m going to pick up on on emily’s point, that becoming the position of being the non-profit that’s working with cos, you know, we were designing the web site, and one of the things we try to make sure of is we knew internally in our own organization who who is responsible to make the final decision so that, you know, family’s talking the communications director, she needs to know that when the communications director says we’re not going to do this, then hearst boss is not going to come down two weeks later and say, well, actually, we are let’s keep that anyway, because that’s, how you lied to basically blowing your budget and changing your plans. So it’s, very important as an organization is a nonprofit taking on the project to be clear in advance. Who are the decision makers? Who are the real stakeholders, who is going to make the decisions and who needs to stay out of the way? That’s perfect. So who should be let’s? Go to you family? Who should be part of this design team? I mean, i think having one clear a person who is ultimately one person is in charge. Yes, having been in the position where three people are making the decision, you know that doesn’t really work. So ultimately one person has to have the final say. So we are we are not doing this, but i think lots of people should be involved and be able to have their input because you will otherwise get in this situation. Where oranges years, months later i don’t know. How’d we get this? Yes or no? You roll that definitely derail your project. If all of a sudden you had someone pop up and say hey, what happened? Teo x y z i thought we were doing this, and then as a consultant to be the person who says, oh, sorry, that’s not in the budget, i think it’s so we need to think through in the beginning stages, who are the stakeholders? So but with the web, but at our website affects everybody. Lisa, how do we decide whose we can’t have too many people in the process? I already said that how do we decide who should be part of this process and who should be sidelined? A big part of that for me is design theory. Tio it’s basically starting off with talking to all of the people who are going to be using the site. So if it’s one person from the board, one person from the staff, one actual end user, et cetera, and they don’t necessarily have to be people who are involved in the decision making part of it. But fighting out how they actually use the site and how they would like to use the site and how it all fits into the overall organization makes a huge difference in the end result and how successful it is, okay or anything you want to add to this? Yeah. And that’s another reason why inside the organisation it helps to have somebody you can sort of manage some of those relationships internally in some ways be a bridge between the organization and the external party. I in some ways fulfill that role in my organization. I’m not responsible for the site, partially because i have experiences a web product manager, i’m ableto some ways mediate, i suppose, between some of the internal forces intentions and our external external vendors, and that makes life easier for them because they have fewer people to talk to, and we’re clear decision making it makes life easier for us and that we’re able to resolve some of our issues ideally before we start having to pay for it’s going to more detail on this, managing the contractors or contractor whatever that is doing the process. Emily, you’ve got something you want. I was going to say that i think having your communications director or someone at that level lead the project is a good call because they’re in a role where they khun both understand more closely, like the technical side of what we’ll need to go into this because they’re close enough. To the project, where they might be in a role where they’re updating the website. But then there also. Removed a little bit from it and more into the business side of things where they can understand the bigger picture and the business decisions and the important role that stakeholders play. Where i think if you put the website in the i t department and have that management come from that side, they might spend more time kind of focused on how is everything working exactly and ignore the business side of war on the into the code? Okay, okay, let’s, let’s talk more about managing the contract with doing this project for us out. How do you? How do you like to be managed? I don’t like to be managed, but well, essentially the biggest thing is always communication on both ends of it and setting expectations. Some people love to talk only via email, some are i need to get on the phone with you to make you understand this and it’s an inter generational thing, it’s just it’s. Everybody certainly has different feelings on that bye, setting up expectations of how often we’re going to talk, how we’re going to talk, how we’re going to be managing all of these assets, all of these things that makes things so much easier down the line, and you don’t have developers who disappear or gaps in knowledge where well, we have no idea where we’re hosted right now, which is a huge deal, because so many people don’t really know all their passwords and everything. So let’s, let’s move to something else that you were are going to cover tomorrow. Use of data, you said data tio dr better flew and better engagement. Who’s the everybody plays family, right? Emily, you’re got two thumbs pointing to you. Yes. Yeah. That’s. The data portion of it is really my specialty. Okay, so we’re going to talk a little bit about what the stakeholder they wrote to me in for the stakeholder section because i had had this other presentation that oren saw where it was about using data to kind of manage people’s personalities, but definitely needed to manage personnel. That was that was different. There was somewhere else. Yeah. Is that another? Another kind of interested? Okay, about how you can take the day that you collect and then use it. Tio appears the different sort of questions and issues that pop with your different stakeholders, but definitely before you embark on your redesigned some suggestions about, you know what sorts of data people should look at, a lot of it depends on what sorts of issues pop up with your various people who are involved. I really kind of feel like there’s kind of three basic types of issues that it will happen, you know, there’s the sort of person who doesn’t you might have it from your executive director or from another person, your organization, they don’t necessarily want to spend any money, so helping to make the case that we need to make this investment and we need to invest in better technology, you can use your your google analytics user testing surveys a variety of different things to get a good picture of what’s going on with your audience because who’s using your website is not necessarily reflecting the needs of the person using your website isn’t reflecting. You know the needs of the people in your audience, they’re not in your office, they’re not the same. Okay, what else about data? I’m so you also get the person who is has all the fun ideas, maybe, you know, reads a lot of things. Online about the latest trends, and we need to have this widget and that widget and helping them get a good perspective on, you know, what’s really going on with our users where we really having problems with our site right now that definitely need to be fixed in the in the redesign, you can use google analytics things like back-up they have a funnel feature to see you. Nowhere in your process is people you’re losing people dropping out, leaving your side, and then i love surveys and user testing as a way to hear from riel people how frustrating it is for them to use certain functions on your website. So who would you send those surveys to? Is that that cut across all your constituents metoo donors, board members, people who are engaged, engaged with your programs, receiving your service is all those people get survey like that? It depends. I’ve done ones on the website, which i think are nice. Google has ah, very low cost pop up sort of survey you may have seen them before that you can answer a couple questions, and then there’s typically kind of an open end response, which is a great source for people’s france. Ok, things are kind of questions. Do we ask? You can certainly ask about user rolls if you want. If it’s important for you and your your website to understand who’s used what constituency you would word it this way, but what constituency they fit into. We’re delivering services, etcetera. Okay. What? What else do you want to find out? That’s? Fine, but you could totally keep it super simple. And just as something like, you know, what brings you to the site today? Are you satisfied with your experience? If not, you know what recommendations do you have for us? Those three questions? I think we’ll get you a good picture of what’s going on. I mean, i’ve had guests on who say the best survey is, like, five fewer questions. Oh, yeah, definitely. Okay, so short is not problematic. It all it’s preferred? Yeah, especially if you you know, you’re kind of you’re popping up at them. They’re coming to your sight because they’re trying to do something else. So you want to keep the survey short because you’re kind of interrupting their experience? What else can wait? Talk about around this? You’re going, you’re going to feel ninety minutes tomorrow. Well, let me add another more point about data again. I’m coming at this from persuaded emily. So i thought the data when emily stop, okay or you can talk about data. Whenever we took a breath, i thought that was the end of the day that i could talk for days about data e talking about okay, just the one small point i wanted to make again back to managing expectations, it’s away to also manage expectations your stakeholders had about people who are wedded to. We’ve always had this section on the website i love this information is valuable and it’s useful to be able to go to analytic state and say twenty, people visited this page in the last five years. We don’t need it. Okay? Spell, myth it’s also a legacy pages that people are tied to strongly, but nobody else cares it’s also testing out processes to like, how long does it take someone to actually make a donation or to find the volunteer form or something like that? Does it take to long for them to get there and they get tired of it? And they just leave, or does the executive director have an idea that they love this particular feature, but no one’s clicking on it or they wantto accident actually everyone’s clicking on it. And we don’t know that unless we actually get true user data, so it helps it. A lot of scenarios are based in reality. You know, the numbers no like yeah. All right. Uh, okay, so we still have you just took it five or six minutes together. What else can we talk about on this topic website? Redesigned. You promised a step by step guide. We missed any step. Well, there’s, plenty of stuff. Cemetery. Alright, so name some names, something we haven’t talked about it content auditing of your current site. So actually, i’m going to cut you off there, like three or four sessions ago, we talked about content, name another one and another step way of linking on it that we haven’t talked a lot of sessions, police about post launch care and the whole yeah, because to me kind of the laundry analogy to but to me, a website is a living, breathing thing. And just because you’re done with it, because it launched does not mean that it is done. You need to keep feeding that for google to pay attention to and for your users to pay attention to. You also need to be aware of the ongoing costs of maintaining the site and keeping it secure. Ilsen and already you have a laundry. Now you wanna bring laundry and maybe a lot of what you want. I’m thinking more about sort of laundry all of a sudden, you know, chris created out of no where in your hamper, because what happens is part of the consequence. If you’ve been really successful, i think in managing expectations and limiting the scope of your redesign and coming up with a very clean site, that means there are going to be items that fell off the must have list that are now on the might have list or nice to have list, but after launch that’s an opportunity to sort of incrementally add in some of the things you may have wanted to do earlier as budget becomes available. That’s part of what lisa was saying about it’s, an ongoing project not only maintenance but ongoing improvement i remember, but i used to work at a large non-profit before people with sort of a background in your television program, you would say that keep iooking cleanse the website done, and i think least i mentioned at the beginning of our talk it’s never done that’s an ongoing lisa, do you see? Oh, our emily also commonalities around things that people want but don’t really need or, you know, durney generalities about things that they say is a top priority, but really it’s, not any any generalizations you could make around that. How about home paint sliders? I was just thinking that way, but everybody loves big sliders, right? No one clicks on them. They really don’t know. They don’t stop it to go back. So many guys attract many home page sliders. Yes, they get teo slide too, i think. Yeah, they and then they go to what they really want. Okay, i think people, maybe this is at least as different impressions. But i think there’s just too much emphasis and too many politics around the home page and what goes on on the home page because most sites people are coming in sideways, you get a lot of people coming in. From search, especially if your sight is well designed and has, you know, all the ceo best practices. People will come in to your bog post or to your content pages, and they’ll never see your home page. And so in projects i’ve been involved with, the home page gets very political and can stall things. Okay, that’s, old thinking that everybody’s coming directly to our our main, our main domain. And everybody wants a piece of it. Yes, there’s a lot of fighting about. Okay, so you are generalizing about okay, george, as i was going to bring this up before, but yeah. There’s a lot of oh, you know, my department needs to go on the home page. This is very important. Very important to this organization. All right, all right. What else could we were going to flush out? A little bit more? Got another couple minutes left. What one thing is, i was going to advise i came up with a bunch of sort of tips and tricks. If you’re inside the organizations that have ways too, to keep your stakeholders, i was going to use the word under control. But that’s a bit of a loaded term, but back to the prioritization, you know, prioritization is really critical, you know, making those choices about what you want to do and there’s been lots of cases in several projects i’ve worked on when you know your stakeholders might have a long list of things they want to do. And as somebody who’s running a project it’s really important to learn how to say pick one really focuses the mind i sway for, you’re not going to need that. That sort of thing to really help helps sort of focus the issue. Everybody gets one right, you could. You could name as many as you like, but you’re gonna get one priority. Okay, okay, yeah buy-in talking to clients. I used to say to people, you know, we can do this, you know, or we could do this and that response, wass, what can we do both. So i have learned to rephrase it and say, here are three options, pick one, okay. We asked what you, uh so what do you love about the work that you do? You know, organizations i work within cos they’re so wide ranging that it always amazes me what you can learn, what you can pick up and all of the commonalities of them too, you know, there there’s so many things that they’re all trying to get across, even if they’re a tiny little organization. So it’s, um, and making a difference with it with the actual and product from what they can about you are what you love about this work. I think what’s really interesting about the work is one year’s going setting off on a website redesign you think you’re doing a technology project, and it almost inevitably ends up being a management project because i think we’ve alluded to it before that the company’s your organization’s website is really related to how it’s organised how the organization works and you end up sometimes having more conversations about how the organization works and how we’re running on what our strategies then, about technology, about the actual some introspection. Okay, emily, i’m gonna give you ten or fifteen seconds. What do you like? What you love about this work your work about the work that i d’oh. I mean, i like that it’s always changing. I specialize in data stuff and it’s a field that’s constantly evolving. So i like that aspect of being able teo, keep up on it and always be just like our websites. Yeah, conley evolving. Always changing. Never finished. All right, they’re orin levine, director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa lisa it’s. A guess off. Yeah. Sounder and creative. Director of gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measured. Thanks so much for being with us. I think this interview like all of them here it eighteen ntc sponsored by network for good, easy to use dorner management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with non-profit video coverage of the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference. We need to take a break. Wagner. Cps for pete’s sake, talk to you. Eat huge tomb. You know the man. You heard him on our four hundred show. Did he sound high pressure to you? Of course not. He sounded like the gentleman that he is gentlemanly and professional. Check out the farm of course. Got to do your due diligence. Do your research weinger cps dot com then pick up the phone. Talk to you, wagner, cpas dot com then moved to real life now tony steak too it’s finger wagging time. I want you to plan ahead so that you make time don’t just look for it try to find it. You make time for yourself yourself over labor day weekend time alone, its restorative you heard last week steve rio talk about thie the benefits throughout your day of of mindfulness and presence, and even maybe ah meditation for a couple of minutes. I mean, they do virtual meditations of bright webb, he said, every day for five minutes, take time for yourself. Make time for yourself over labor day weekend, even if even if part of it is a nap. It’s restorative, you’re in e-giving profession you give you give, you have to be a little selfish and take make that time for yourself wagging my finger and there’s a little bit more on that in the video at tony martignetti dot com what a pleasure to have amy sample ward back. She is our social media contributor. Ceo of intend the non-profit technology network her most recent court third book, social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample board, dot or ge and at amy rs ward. Welcome back, amy. I think having me back, it’s always a pleasure. You’re always you’re always welcome back. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Should be a surprise to you. We always work well, i hope that you’ll let me know if i get cut from the roster will stop taking your calls. Know that we’ll have to wait on the phone. I’ll call in with a different say. I have a question to make up a different name. All right. Um, we’re talking about over marketing over marketing. This is a, uh, a bothersome thing for you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, i think it’s probably bothersome to everyone. That’s. Why it’s not successful? Yeah, it’s. In the long run, it annoys people and they turn off. Okay, i think that’s true. You know, maybe we’ll look att cem symptoms of over marketing so that you can do some self assessment. I think it’s it’s, probably one of these things is much easier to see in other people which may be coming totally right. I think it’s definitely hard to self diagnose your organization as an over marketer and instead very easy to look at other communications, other websites, what have you and feel like? Oh my gosh. You know and just to be clear, when i say over market and maybe this is a point of clarification between the two of us, i am curious how you define it. But for me, over marketing is when you market everything equally instead of choosing as an organization what your priorities are. Okay, so it seems very scattershot the marketing then from that those kinds of organizations very scattershot, everything is equally urgent. Everything is equal, equally impactful. Everything is, you know equally the thing that you want people to do right, then yeah. Okay, interesting might might my sense of it is it’s it’s i’m more looking at the frequency you know, if i get too many emails too many if i see your twitter you know, blowing up my twitter stream you know, i see i see too much from you it’s it’s too much it well in however, you define the time but e i’m seeing too much, um, well, and i think that that frequency piece could is, you know, one of the ways that over marketing manifest, because you could also say that it, um, you know, separate from frequency, it could just be type it could be that you are just like your web site is, you can’t even navigate it because every single thing has to have its own space on your home page that’s the call to action and whatever, you know, there’s different ways that it might manifest, but frequency certainly is a big one. Ok? And christie’s bleed over. I mean, you know, if your if your website has everything is an equally high priority, then that’s the trouble you were, you know, that’s, the trouble that you’re that bothers you the most is that every everything is urgent going on and everything has a page, every page is called action. You know, his first came to me as an idea because someone sent me an email with i printed it. It’s literally the the email signature is a half a page and i did not printed in eighteen point five i put it in twelve point fund. A very reasonable size. I’m this person’s email signature is a half takes up a half a page, right? I’m sure that the emails they’re sending two people are, you know, a very reasonable, like hi, tony, and then a couple sentences and thanks so much. And yet their signature is three times that. Yeah, yeah. Or more. It’s, you know, there’s itt’s. Well, i gave it away. It’s a he you know, it’s it’s it’s filled up with i mean there’s like zoho linked in you are el there’s a well there’s there’s web sites. There’s a you are elves, but then they’re not linked. And then separately there’s www the length number one w w was like number two and number three and there’s the mailing address and there’s. Ah, fax number off a twenty eighteen a fax number on then there’s and then there’s some congratulate, you know, self promotion stuff about anniversaries. How long he’s been in different lines of business and it’s it’s a half a page. So that’s what? Put this on my radar? You know, i guess i’ve subconsciously i’ve probably been thinking noticed it certainly, but tio got into my consciousness and i asked you about it and you said, whoa drives me crazy. So so here we are here we are. I’m just commiserating in the things that drives, but it’s for a good purpose, we’re helping where i’m not complained, my larry david, i’m not i’m not complaining, i’m helping, but, you know, what’s so interesting to me about that, like, the starting place where this conversation is that so many organizations, i don’t think, ever think about the signature line of there down both from the perspective that that, uh, i mean, that’s, you know, hundreds if you count all of your different staff, hundreds of messages a day to community members that could be reinforcing your organization’s brand or voice or mission having a standard, you know, signature block for everyone in your staff that, you know, great, everybody has the right information there, we probably don’t need to list our fax machine, you know, for all of those things because i see so many times where you know, one person, one organization writes at one way another person you can’t they don’t have a signature block, all you see is like, thanks, amy and me, but who? Are you, you know, co-branded spectrum that’s a missed place for just reinforcing the brand of the organization, but so few organizations know that you’re their signature block is kind of a passive called toe action space. Um, and at intend, we test that and we have a we use our goal for non-profits account, and that allows us if anyone listening uses the google suite for your organizations, you have, you know, females, you know, you could just administer as an organization what everyone’s you could add, like a call to action at the bottom of of the signature, and you don’t have to worry that some staff forgot to put it in, like, you could just administer that, and it is immediately in place for all of your emails, and we change that regularly, but we also track that and, you know, there are people that click on that signature link where we’re promoting that and you see and actually click through and register. So it is a place to call people to action. It is not necessarily a place to successfully call them toe action with eighteen different things that you’re saying, you know, it needs to just be one and have it be something that’s actually relevant to why you’re emailing people vs maybe, you know, links all of these different awards and promotions. You actually test different signatures. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Eminently doable. Eminently testable. You know us, we test everything. Okay. That’s, you technology network? Yes. Bonem all right. So let’s, let’s encourage some self assessment. We just have about a minute or so before before taking the first break. Um, i thought of i thought of some symptoms that you might that that that maybe hitting you in the face if you’re if your engagement numbers are declining, if you’re if you’re of actual follower numbers or connections, if that’s, you know, if people are dropping off that way, so i thought of either one of those, you know, people might still be following you, but they’re not engaging that’s, that’s bad or they might just stop following you or being connected. No thing can in fact, tonight, adam a nuance to those numbers. Certainly it’s healthy to have people stop following you on twitter or toe unsubscribes miree male because it means people are reading it and it no longer, you know the priority in their life, it’s not the topic that they care about it’s. Fine, you don’t need to feel bad of someone on subscribe to the newsletter but that’s the point you’re making tony is that if you are getting in ten people unsubscribes sections one new person subscribing then your ratio is a little off you want tohave, you know more people continuing to subscribe. Then you have a fall back off. Thank you for refining my point. Thank you. I mean, i mean that generally we gotta take a break. Take a break. Tell us enough with the talis moughniyah. Lt’s you’ve heard them. You’ve heard them from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and, of course, those charities air getting that revenue each month that long tail you’ve heard the talis moughniyah, lt’s from companies who are using tello’s for credit card processing. I bet you could use more revenue. Tell us long stream of revenue. You know how this works? You refer cos they take on tell owes you the non-profit get fifty percent of the revenue from those fees. Watch the video at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now. Back to amy sample board. Thank you for that indulgence. Yes. All right. So, indeed, big numbers, you know, that’s bad and unsustainable. You know, you’ve got your tenant followers a day and one new follower, your that’s that’s, not sustainable. Um, let’s. See, um, if you i thought you know how about reading your own stuff reading your own to spend a little time romping through your own, you know, your own twitter stream your own instagram, facebook, these things boring you your own website, have you read? Have you read the last a couple of weeks of content on your website? A few if you have something that’s regularly updated that that often does it bore you? I would say that’s a bad somebody i think what’s interesting about that suggestion and that so many people we’ll overlook is that we, of course i have read all of it listed it, right? So the idea that we would go back and look at it feels like some time wasted because, of course we wrote those tweets. Are we, you know, posted those pictures? Never, but the value in what you’re suggesting is not look at any of those. Single post it’s look your feed without looking at your whole timeline or whatever, right? Like, just look at for twitter, profile and all the content in order that’s been posted or your instagram profile or your website, because that’s where you can really start to see from your followers perspective or your community’s perspective. Whoa, you know, this is this is what it felt like, or this is what it sounded like. I think that’s something we don’t do often enough it’s organizations because we don’t feel like we need to, because we’ve already reviewed all that content when we posted it individually. Yeah, we wrote it ourselves see, this is this is why you’re an author, co author of two books, and i’ve never written a book because you you put a finer point on it. No, i’m the shallow guy, i got this idea and then you refine it, give it depth and meaning and eso like on the comic book writer, and you’re the you’re the writer of books that actually get published by, you know, by well known publishing companies. Yeah, but i haven’t even done one of those yet. Yeah, ok. Er and you just and i’ve been thinking about it, and you just heard it. And you you put you put, you add depth and, uh, greater meaning to it. So thank you. What a team. You know, good teamwork. Yeah, work. If i didn’t have this show, you could because, you know, i don’t think you need me to get started, but i need you to add the depth and the color enough beating myself up. Okay. Um, no. I’m having fun doing it. So what are you? Nobody. Nobody listens to this show anyway, so nobody here’s the nobody here is the self loathing. Oh, that’s not true. Thousands of people listening. Yes. Don’t remind everybody said you have more in your list in this moment. Don’t remind me more of my list more my list. What of these of these things? I have more. I have things on my list. I can add, um, i have one more staff complaints if the staff, if the staff is feeling that their content is you know, however, they describe stale o r, you know, repetitive. You want to pay a lot of attention to that because they’re the ones producing the content. So if staff or if you’re hearing from staff, i think that’s a bad sign, what do you what do you have totally eye? You know, now i feel obligated to add depth and color all of your suggestions, but the piece that i would add there is i feel like it’s, not just staff saying that it’s repetitive, but the conversations that you might over here amongst your staff that are kind of like a warning sign warning flag that you’re maybe doing over marketing is when people are saying, you know, i’m marketing this in someone else’s say, no, the postcards you know, went out yesterday for this someone else, eh? Zoho on twitter were saying that you have people, you know, you’re cross team isn’t talking about the same thing, then you’re probably doing, you know, equal parts promotion of five different things at once and that just naturally not going to be a successful your community members can’t take in five different request to do something that are different and actually do them all for you. Very bad sign if there’s conflicting messages across your across your team, i thought it was this i thought this was the priority, right? Okay, what else? What else do you have on your symptom symptom list? Well, i don’t have as many symptoms. I have a list that’s, more like things that you khun d’oh. Okay, um, yeah, okay, we could switch over there. I’m game for some guests. I would say you’re not a baby, we can talk about a few things underneath is i really liked the idea for organizations, you know, of course, we all know that we should have, like, a content calendar and marketing plan and all of these things. But the reality is i’m going toe just operate within reality that we don’t have those things or we have them and they’re not updated or or or whatever. So instead of saying, oh, just go finish off that editorial calendar that you should have instead of that recommendation, i’d say just pick a team. It could be every month it could be based on certain weeks that, you know, we’re leading up to events, whatever. And having a team i think, really helps people across the organization, you know, in whichever team there in know that they can still talk about their team. Or their program or their service. But do it in a way that still aligned and advancing whatever over our james focus organizationally needs to be the priority. So it maybe we can use in ten for an example. Course i could speak to that, so we might say, ok, this month’s needs to be focused on the ntc, but we still have membership campaigns that happened, we still have course promotions that need to happen, you know, where there’s still all this other work, but we don’t need to be saying register for the nbc become a member. Sign up for this course that’s happening next week, you know, apply for this program because that’s not going that’s, where we get into the half a page email signature, you know, someone said saint arthur, steam is auntie si lets people say culwell instead of just talking about membership, i’ll talk about how members engaged at the ntc instead of just talking about, of course, next week, i’ll say this course has a similar topic at the mtc, and this is a way for you to continue your learning. You know, it just gives people more oven umbrella that they can talk about their programs while still staying. Kind of on message. Okay, yeah. I can i can i can toss out one for recommendation, and that is to put yourself on your own lists, make sure that you are seeding yourself so that you’re seeing the feed, the posts, hearing the podcast, whatever it is the same way, same frequency as everybody else. Yeah, and then had a way to do that. It’s not just getting your own organizations emails, because to your point, there are lots of different channels were using in ten does this and i’ve talked to a number of our other organizations who do this, too, whether you use black, which is kind of an internal messaging tool, or you have an internet or whatever tool you’re using for kind of internal content and conversation. Most of those tools there’s probably a way where you can have your organization’s account, your twitter account, instagram show up in there and that way you have essentially, you know, one channel in slack or whatever you used that just is showing all of your tweets, so not only can you see when a tweet has gone out, but what it was about, and then you can very easily scroll through and say oh, my gosh, way! Look at what we have been saying or what we haven’t been saying or whatever on dh you don’t have to say, okay, now everyone on staff has to create a twitter account and go follow the organization and check it every day. You can just pull it into a central system so everyone can see it. I see. Excellent. Okay, okay. She’s, the co author times two. Amazing. All right, let’s, take another break. Okay, let me take a break text to give you’ll get more revenue because text to give makes e-giving easy for your donors. If your donors can send a text message, they could make a donation to u not only simple also affordable and secure the way to get more info and to claim your special listener offer you text npr two, four, four, four, nine nine nine couldn’t be any simpler. Npr. Four, four, four, nine, nine, nine we’ve got about six more minutes for over marketing with amy um, we run really medicine, okay? Please go ahead. So this suggestion is coming from a place where at and ten, we have definitely seen return on the work, but also in recognition that if you’re if you’re organization is suffering from over marketing, you’re already putting in the time to do a bunch of work so let’s just move that work to something else, and that is the idea of promo, okay, it’s, not just for your big annual fundraiser or, you know, once a year event for anything programs for things that are year round, even creating again, you’re already doing this work because you’re already over marketing, so instead of putting it all out as an organization, all the work you did to come up with those tweets or those block post or whatever put them into, you know, a a shared document or a wiki or google doc or whatever, and instead of sharing them on your own feed, share them with community members that can that are interested in that that maybe participate in that program before whatever that they want to be out in the community scene is talking about your work and promoting it and it’s still getting out there. People are still hearing about your programs, but you aren’t saying okay, well, our twitter feed today is going to have to cover all ten of these topics you say today we’re covering this topic, but we know that we’ve supported community members and they have access to these promo kits. Tio help us spread the word excellent using yes using your most dedicated constituents, friends, followers sort of a back channel way of getting them to help you promote board members boardmember could be idea for that, right? Okay, are for sure, all right, i’m going to get one out because i know you’re going to say it, i’m gonna get out first, okay? If you feel you’re over marketing on promoting your own work, share the work of others instead. So the obvious, you know, sharing on facebook, facebook shares, they’re so they’re so rare. Now facebook shares please share other people’s content obviously twitter, the re tweets on twitter or you go or spend that time going out and finding, you know, curating the content of others and sharing that because, you know, it’s relevant to your community. I know you’re going to say that yes, well and i think something to remember to when when you’re thinking about content and mixing it up so that it isn’t just you talking. About the thing that you want people to do over and over, another place where you could look to content in addition to sharing, of course, you know that i’m always going to say, share other people’s work and rise up the community is just as you are doing, too be the one that reminds your community that they can take a break, that they can have fun, that the world is really hard, it feels right now, and so much is going on, and we’re always asking our community to take action to support us, whether it’s fund-raising or advocacy or local actions. But maybe you are also building community and building trust with them by being the voice that says, you know, we hope that you take a saturday off and just be with your family or go to the zoo her, you know, go for a hike and and you aren’t always calling them toe action that you’re also treating them as full people that need to take a break and be healthy too. Yeah, that space space critical. We had steve rio on last week talking a lot about that he’s. Interesting do you know, do you know steve rio, bright webb? I don’t know. And i know i heard he’s, based in vancouver. Andi has twenty five employees. Maybe that includes contractors, but they’re all over north america. Very interesting. Okay. Um, they do. They have. They have virtual meditations. You probably heard me or not. Uh, not not mandatory optional, but they do a forty five minute virtual meditation every day a couple times a week. Sorry. Three times, three times a week? Um, yeah, i think yeah. Mindfulness, you know, presence. Oh, and, you know, there’s there’s research that shows that that that helps you be be more efficient in your in your workday. Um, every sample would really have, like, two minutes left. Um, you have another. You wantto recommend something else. If you feel you’re over marketing, do you have another recommendation? While the other piece that i was going to suggest is kind of the office that and that is just in case there are listeners who are, like, no, our problem is that we never marketed anything we never, you know, actually promote ourselves because it’s all you know, maybe they’re your web site is is just kind of content, because your programs or your round and you don’t feel like you have timely things, so if somehow you are on the opposite end of the conversation and feel like you need more help finding ways teo to market, i would say, just look through whether that’s, your social media accounts, your website, whatever and look for those empty spaces places that i think organizations could really take advantages putting in in their twitter bio or their instagram bio, or whatever that you know, a girl that shows up right there and the short kind of narrative box you have to write something, put what feels more like a timely kind of a call to action or reference a campaign that you’re running or whatever that is, and put a girl in there that doesn’t just go to your home page, same with your email signature. Look for those empty spaces where you can make it feel more timely instead of just the permanent kind of here’s our home page here’s, what we do here is our mission statement she’s amy sample ward she’s the author i’m not you’ll find her at, you’ll find her and amy sample ward. Dot or go! And also you should be following the woman for god’s sake, twitter is so much wisdom coming follow-up for god’s sake that’s the end of it just for pizza. Just follow at amy rs ward. Thank you, amy. Thank you, tony. My pleasure always next week. Maria semple returns with real estate for prospect research. If you missed any part of today’s show i deceit, you find it on tony martignetti dot com. We are sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com by telus credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four nine nine, nine a creative producers clam meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. E-giving cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative network, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c buy-in. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Yeah. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com hyre. You’re listening to talking on turn their network at www. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 11, 2018: SMS Fundraising II & Digitally Tracking Your IRL Work

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My Guests:

Meredith Begin & Ellen Pascale: SMS Fundraising II

(L to R) Begin & Pascale

A new panel continues our convo from last week, taking on KPIs, testing, your donors’ lifecycle, and more. They’re Meredith Begin from Upland Mobile Messaging and Ellen Pascale with The Humane Society of the U.S. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 


Emily Patterson:
 Digitally Tracking Your IRL Work
Self-described “data nerd” Emily Patterson talks you through online tracking and analyzing of your offline activity. She’s founder of Bee Measure. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into karate. No durney mia, if you joined us me with the idea that you missed today’s show sms fund-raising too a new panel continues our convo from last week taking on kp eyes testing your donor’s life cycle and mohr. They’re members of begin from coupland mobile messaging and ellen peskay alla with the humane society of the united states that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and digitally track your hyre l work. Self described data nerd emily patterson talks you through online tracking and analyzing of your offline activity. She’s, founder of be measure b e and that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference on tony’s take two it’s time to make time responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com and by tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s let’s, kick it off! Here’s sms. Fund-raising too, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference coming to you from new orleans hashtag is eighteen and t c this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests for this session are meredith begin and ellen pascal. Meredith is mobile strategist for a planned a mobile messaging, and ellen is mobile marketing manager for the humane society of the united states. Mary ellen, welcome, you should have you both. You’re thankyou. Your topic is can you really raise more money? Can you really raise money through text messages? Meredith start, do you think there’s some skepticism around this? Is that why you freeze that as a question? Can we really can you really do this? I think there is a lot of people don’t they look a text messaging as just a one to one thing on, and they don’t really know it as well of organizations using it as a tool in their tool box for fund-raising for long term, it was just a one off for right relief for volunteers or something like that indeed, is the back and forth engagement throughout the entire life cycle of the subscriber on dh. With that engagement, there’s often asked for for some funds to help out with some programs. Okay, ellen, what is that life cycle look like? Meredith is talking about the life cycle of the donor through your your your text program? Well, well, they become, and usually through advocacy, okay? Or or or through one of our just opt in key words and and we like we’ll ask them for money for maybe a rescue or something, an animal rescue and yeah, eso and we’re asking a lot of the same people that are on her e mail list that are, you know, see, they’re going to our web site there, seeing our ads there are facing their facebook followers and whatever, uh, and and they they donate at higher rates on sms, which is kind of something that might be surprising to you because you’re not used to seeing a lot of brands or especially non-profits in your text, you know? Hyre but yeah, and then we follow up the same way email would thank them and yeah, we use is it’s like an outbound, you know? Broadcast service similar t mail, but different because it’s, you know it’s a different type of medium. How did the open rates compare email versus sametz a marriage until i speak a little better to that. Ok, well, how about you know what i mean? Just for the main zsystems xero but i don’t know how how open rights should be captured on sms, but there seems to be there’s like an industry staff just this has ninety nine percent are open of texts, which kind of makes sense when you think about your own text like you’re not leaving them just sitting there with a little red right now, who does that? Buy-in but i don’t know how that’s really counted you have something that i’m sure it’s actually the industry that counts, quote unquote, open rates for email, i mean, for text messaging on dh they so we basically go by reports from what the industry provides to us, and i’ve seen statistics from ninety eight, ninety nine percent of text messages are open and the majority of those air within the first ninety seconds well, the ninety seconds yes, ok, i should really be that surprised it. Takes a priority in our lives until the next thing comes along that trumps texting the way email got trumped by by texting right? I mean there’s going to be another technology? Maybe you don’t know what it is. I mean, text messaging sms messaging has been in existence widespread since since the ninety’s the first text message a billy was in nineteen ninety two eso email isn’t that much longer, although you’re right that that text messaging is kind of the new or medium has people emails play the email, open rates are decreasing action race conversion rates fund-raising fund-raising everything’s decreasing on email because people are are finding other mediums to communicate. And text messaging, though, has continued to stay strong and steady buy-in you don’t want to predict what’s gonna happen, what it’ll look like, the landscape will be ten years from now. Years from now, there is this new thing out that technology the industry is trying to push forward and called rcs rich communication something and it’s similar to kind of building out miniature web pages via a similar text messaging system. But the industry is still currently working out pricing for that it’s quite. Possible that it’s going to be cost prohibitive so there are no technologies that tend to come out, you know, there’s, there’s, aps chat apse that are used with push notifications. But those all requires somebody to actually download an application in order to be able to use everybody already has actually passed on their phone with a smartphone. Exactly. Okay, so ellen so the humane society has made as mainstream hoexter text e-giving it’s a part of your fund-raising plan. I don’t know if i could take credit for making e across, you know, not not your pioneered it, you know, but you mainstream did i mean within you make so is a part of your fund-raising yeah, it’s it’s not now, by that you mean just to clarify you mean text, text to donate, as in like hoexter keyword and two don’t have ten, ten dollars, out of your way. You educate me? Maybe i’m maybe i’m not referring to right way we’re talking about text e-giving i thought that i meant yes to give is actually just a portion it sze one one way to text and doo doo fund-raising okay versus what there’s some other way. Yeah, way volunteering or what? Well, so most of the money that we raise using sms is through broadcast messages with a link to a donation for okay, i’m hearing this for the first time. So give me a chance. Cast messages with link to monisha. Okay. So text message with you like this, but there’s like, you know, okay, something. Yeah, so that’s us reeling out, doing a deal. I’m the remedial student. I’m just learning this for the first time, but all tryingto hold up my side of competition. Okay, so most most of the that’s, the way it’s done well, that’s, most of the money we raise is from that comes from that. Yes, right. But we definitely also for, you know, for mention before we do a lot of animal rescue. So there’s a lot of like disaster response to the lot of urgent asks. And in those cases it’s really useful to have texted donatas well, that’s that’s when you see, like text love to teo two due to donate ten dollars, to our animal rescue team and that’s, you know, during like hurricane harvey or something. And so so that yes, so we raise money both ways, but we, but partially due to the size of the gifts, i think is why the sending the techs out with a wink? Usually i mean, definitely raises more money, okay? Hyre in terms of best practices or well, before we go on to that, i just wantto kind of clarify the difference between broadcast messaging and text to give s o the broadcast messaging that helen’s talking about where you send out a broadcast with a link, those air to subscribers who have all confirmed to receive text messages from you already. So though ellen is able to send out a text message to them, ask them to donate the text to give where you’ll see a keyword to a short code toe donate a certain number of a certain amount of money, those air usually only five, ten or twenty dollars, allotments amounts and it’s actually a pledge to donate, and then those that funds those funds are actually pulled out. You’re basically build through your phone bill, so if i pledged to donate ten dollars, then on my next phone bill, i see an additional ten dollars debit. Ok, ok, we’ve seen that, yeah. Okay. Thank you for distinguishing against the medial for medium part of this panel. It’s. Time for a break pursuant. The art and science of acquisition is one of their content papers. Has your revenue could use more donors? Therefore, you need to keep your prospect pipeline full so the money keeps flowing to the important work that you’re doing. Hence, you need this paper. The art and science of acquisition it’s on the listener landing page at tony dahna slash pursuant radio let’s, go back to the remedial student learning sms fund-raising too. All right. So some of the tools yeah, let’s, let’s talk about some of the tools that are out there to help you put make mainstream this into your fund-raising plan some of technology that’s available. Wantto start. Sure. So i’m with the blood mobile messaging and a lot of are. A lot of your listeners probably are more familiar with mobile commons. We mobile commons was purchased by up land software about three years ago. Now, so it’s been a long, slow process to change our name and so are now up on mobile messaging. Yes. Um, and, you know, we have tools. Everything in our in our toolbox in our platform so our customers can actually log into a platform to manage their list of subscribers to create groups of segments based on based on geography based on legislators based on how they’ve behaved in previous text messages. There’s, all sorts of custom fields that you can use to kind of personalized thie engagement with the person on the other end. We also have trackable links. Eso each link has a little code added to the end of it so that we know when someone receives a text message if they clicked on it or not. Weii, you can send sms or or emma’s messages. Mmm. Way of jargon. Jail on non-profit sms is your standard messaging service. Yeah, it’s one hundred sixty characters it’s like the original text message. Emma’s is pretty much the same thing, but you think you have the unlimited characters for a multimedia? Some message passes. I never know. Media message ings, multimedia’s one word service your hat messaging multimedia’s one neo-sage messaging service service service is i don’t know zsystems okay, so emma messes if you attach like a graphic or a gift for some sort of an attachment along with a text message of ellen. You see, actually, i want to go step back. It was there any reluctance in humane society to bring this are looking or smile to bring this into into the fund-raising plan? There may well have been, but i have only been duitz i’m doing this since june two thousand seventeen officially. Okay, so i was able to kind of bypass a lot of that, but i wasn’t the orders i’ve been in the organization for seven years about don’t try to do any age with that wake enough. Okay, good it’s. Not long enough. Okay, um, yeah. So when i when i started sending her text, we already had a pretty good list and there was a pretty good buy-in internally, they’re great people running the program before, okay, but yeah, i mean it’s, it’s, it’s an ongoing process to kind of sell it internally as something that’s worth continuing to invest in because it is a smaller list. Then you know, if people used to email people using millions of followers on social media and it’s and it’s not that many just because of what it is because it’s it’s something you have to opt into, you’re not used to seeing millions. You know, when you go in your email, you see a ton of non-profit ideo i don’t know, i kind of company is emailing you. I should say and it’s it’s not, you know, you could just leave him in ignore on email. But where there’s a mess, you’re going to opt out if you’re annoyed by it. So it’s so it’s, kind of, you know, there is a smaller lines now it’s growing, but yeah, so so, yeah, the thea the buy-in is an ongoing process, but i did. I was able to skip over most of it. Okay, but of course, you have metrics to demonstrate what the are alive does look like so you can be making your case. Oh, yeah, okay. Absolutely. Okay, uh, what are some of the things you measure? I’m going to jump around right now. We’re going. Now we’re gonna move to metrics, one of the things that something you recommend on our listeners role in small and midsize shot probably smaller than humane society, but still we’re big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Yeah, so you’re gonna represent the big non-profit idea. Part of what you may be measuring. Well, a lot of the the kp eyes keep performance indicators and hears you are this. I want to got there, i think. E think i guess i’m a little nervous, but so a lot of them in the same is what you’re tracking. Email, quick, the rate. Well, response rate. Something to call action rate, depending on what we’re standing on. Radio it’s the number of people that did the thing you want them to dio over how money works, abila saying or delivered were delivered. How is that different than the click through rate? So click the rating is how many of the people that, well, how many clicks it just clicks not the people that, like, donated so it’s. So it’s clicks over delivered it. Supposed teo donated over deliver. Okay. The ultimate action over. Yes. Yeah, andi. Also a conversion rate. So it’s, seeing how many people that clicked on it actually went ahead and donated and that’s a lot of times indication of where you’re sending them. In that case, the message is clear. In that case, the denominator is how many people click now? How many people were sent? How many people click, then, actually then took the action? Yes. Okay. Proportion with simple fractures were doing instructions, right? Yeah. Okay. Um, i mean, i also look att i lookit opt out rates to see if, like, if it’s a kind of indicator of maybe i’m spending too much of one thing. Okay? Or if a lot, i mean, if people are interested in something i’m asking not necessarily with fund-raising so, yeah, that’s it’s something i definitely keep track of delivery rates to from a lot of the message we’re failing. Are you the person actually writing the text messages? You are? I was the better. I was going to meet somebody. One of them? Never. Yeah, never. Okay. We’re in the right place. You’re one of my highlights, possibly of my career. When i was out at happy hour and i was telling somebody i used to run the mobile program at food and water watch. I was telling somebody about it, and she was like, wait a second, are you mayor? I was like, yes, i’m there’s grantspace totally like that’s. Like when somebody says, oh, i already listen to your show. Oh, hey, welcome. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. That’s. Great. All right. Any other k p i that we should be measuring. That elearning mentioned order for fund-raising specifically, we’re going to get two other goals. Means gold platform. The optimal messaging platform allows you to do so, maybe testing eso. At that point, you could you could. Use you could basically tested measure anything that you want. You could test time of day. You could test whether or not using somebody’s name and their text message makes a difference. You could test who the messages from whether you put the organisation’s name at the beginning or the end there’s, whether a graphic makes a difference or not, whether defer to different types of graphics make a difference. We wish one of those is the winner. Okay? Not not dissimilar from what you might. Just an email. Correct? Because the subject line but testing some things are similar. Correct? Okay, related. Difficult part with fund-raising is, you know, just like with email. Is it’s it’s hard to get that statistically significant number if if you’re listed small. Luckily, well, not luckily with through hard work. Humane society of united states list is quite large. So so they are able to get some good numbers. Okay, let’s, talk messing with different goals. But where? Ellen, what are you using besides fund-raising? Are you using sms for other purposes? Yeah, so are our main goals for a sametz are fund-raising and adversity just kind of our main roles goals for digital market department here. Is that your fund-raising obviously as well. And so so yeah so way. Send maura text. Not for fund-raising then we send for fund-raising so advocacies the most. You know what we’ve message most about? What kinds of actions are you trying to stimulate people too? Well, a lot of calling legislator, congressman locally a lot of times to we’ve had them called city council members lots of calls. So then upload has a has a good system for, like you reply call to, like, be connected. So it’s it’s, kind of like integrates like mobile, very tech savvy text savvy. Okay, uh, and i mean there’s, some there’s, some engagement and education as faras goals too. But the mingles air abila fundez meredith. Other clients that you see using sms for other purposes. Oh, yes, well, we have probable messaging mobile comment specifically because that’s, the platform that were it’s currently called, has in addition to non-profit customers, there are a lot of health organizations, health and wellness. S o a couple of health, what i’m trying to say benefits, health benefits or so and better santini and better is an organism is one of my customers and and they engage with their members on different insurance. Eso if there’s deadlines coming up for enrollment, if there’s different things, having to do it different, that with their betterment, education, education, information, and said there’s, some of that your doing, some of that but it’s smaller one of the with this being an election year and one of the really great tools that we have is a polling place locator s o we dude use data from the pew charitable trusts that they it’s it’s actually, the voting information project and it’s, a partnership with pew, google maps and thes and state agencies for elections. People can text it if if an organization sets up the polling place locator way we have the all the data, you just plug it in and is ready to go. They gonna have people in their text a keyword into their short code or just a note, a broadcast and reply with your address and zip code. We’ll send her your polling data, it’s all automatically it’s a it’s, a query tool within the platform itself. We want listeners to be thinking about what? What there, constituents, whether it’s volunteers donors just interested interesting people. You know what information is valuable to them related to our work, right? Right, exactly. And so if there’s events coming up, we want to get real recruit people to a rally you can even organize through that you can organize buses once or rides, and then once you have a list of all your buses, maybe say, you’re you’re going to try and convert people to a washington, d c for a gigantic rally, you could have people text in their address and find the bus that’s going to be in their community, and then they can get connected. That way they can r s v p elearning about trying to get people to opt in. What first? What channel do you use? Use? Use, use text and then say, how does it work? Way texan until they until they often yeah, so starting with so they’ll well, that that is an option for the most part way have abassi alert pages. Oh, our informs on website so if you want to send a message to a congressman or something, an email message there’s a form and then one of the fields there is mobile number and it’s got like a checkbox hopped into tax and that’s we get most of our list from that, which is great because we also get all the admiration that was on that form and they’re also under the melons. So we kind of second tio okay, but also way have a on our website in the footer there’s an opt in, we have none are after, you know, in our some of our email auto responders, i guess after donation after an advocacy action, there’s like text agents arrested three or six before topped and text okay. And does that include text to give that is are you allowed to be allowed to solicit by text what you get that additional often? Yeah, so we’ve takes good question. Yeah, so it know all of your questions have been coming in last o years? Yeah, initiating yourself the host does wonders, actually, yeah, it really does work. Yeah, let’s hope so, but yeah, so they’re on different short codes, so we can’t. I wouldn’t be able to say to text out to our my subscribers, mice drivers are stretchers. Like reply to donate ten dollars, through your phone bills, your text to give, because it’s a different phone number, they be replying, toso, those air maced, mainly seen on social media, or on our website, the like text to give the text, love to to want to do, too, okay, but opt in is three oh six, four, four you get people opt in to text to give they don’t, actually, i mean that there’s. After they’ve texted to give there’s, they get a reply that says from uscis is replied mohr, teo, teo, get text from us, and then though they will get her normal broadcast, but they really are kind of separate. They’re they’re separate short, okay, which means separate lists, basically it’s. Yeah, different purposes. Yeah, sure, code is like the phone. Oh, yeah, sorry, okay. Oh! Let’s see about some of best practices. I’m just going by your session description, right? I’m not no there’s. No gotcha questions here. I’m just going by what? You what you promised. So you promise in your session, you gotta deliver it also to not probably in short form. But we got we got several minutes left. Some best practices. Let’s start with you. Name? Name one. Okay. Always engaged. Even if you’re not asking for fund-raising you need to be consistent. Text subscribers are they’re they’re better with consistency. So if you’re going to send a text message twice a month senate text message twice a month if you don’t send a text message for a long time, then all of a sudden you do. You might see a really high opt out, right? What i remember. Remember this with them? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Ellen, you wanna go? Yeah. So the as faras i can’t really hear anymore. You can’t hear. Okay, you guys check your headset volume. Okay, well, goto you can hear me. We’re good. Yeah, we can’t okay if i were you talking to me, if you can hear, you know that’s pretty good. Yeah. Okay. You got it. So the tone is to be more conversational. Uh, e-giving because you texting is is more conversational than an email. And i wanted to be like from your friend, right? Your friends ask you for money about, like, five or six times a year. My favorite kind of friend? Yeah. So, yeah, definitely. The tones you try for humor? Not not really up to one hundred sixty, two hundred sixty characters. Text. I don’t know if my if the audience necessarily like if it’s got to be the right fit defense organization. I don’t know if i have that. If i work for an organization that would really make a ton of sense that we’re sending, like, you know, this horribly sad, like puppy rescue texted and you know something and then talked about it. Yeah, yeah, really. It’s hard, yeah. Characters. Oh, it’s. Uh, yeah, i was attracted teo and ultimately met my wife through this backward. Princessa personals ads were in print because in the little one column inch ad, she made me laugh. That’s pretty impressive, you know, she was, like, wanted elvis. And that she had a she had a supermodel supermodel amy, who was a supermodel look alike that you mentioned in your year durney covered. She said she said, cindy wanted elvis, cindy crawford look alike, except for left ear lobe left knee cap, you know, arm is arms, navel it’s, you know, that’s pretty good. You make me laughing. One column inches that’s, that’s, that’s this extraordinary. So i answered that i answer that, and i’m not going to say much to my chagrin mike delight. Yeah, so one hundred sixty characters. It’s. Tough to get somebody laugh. Okay, but one of the great things about texting is that you, it’s engaging so you might say, hey, you wanna hear a joke and then the person will be, like, sure, and then you send in the next messages automatically follows up, knock, knock who’s there and so is short. But you can. You kind of you can like i like your other menu. Yeah. And then got consent for a joke. A joke? You know, we’re lightening it up today when he was joking, knock, knock or whatever. So you kind of lead the conversation, but that allows you to get more information and less amount of character space by, like by engaging back-up you’re bonding a little bit. Yeah, there could be some value in it trying to do that every once in a while or something. Joke in a week. I don’t know way the month maybe i wouldn’t do every semiannual feels like you don’t have enough joking. Yeah. Stain on my voice is cracked, like fourteen to stay in the program. Yeah, we only have two jokes here. Copy that. We’re doing okay, huh? Uh, stay on back. Best practice. Another one. I did. And then i forgot it when you anything. Yeah. Come and get well present for fund-raising really? For anything that you’re say, linking off to make sure that wherever they go to is mobile optimized it’s, you know, and also keep in mind that not everybody everybody may i on your list, obviously has a has the ability to get tax, but not everybody has the ability to eat. They don’t a smartphone, not everybody. So just keep that in mind with your text. If everything has a link, a lot of people like i can use it. Ok, there’s enough. People out there without smartphones to be conscious of them. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you can send a segment around tonto, right? And you could segment right? And but yeah, definitely if you sent people to a form and it’s like, you know, a desktop from there, like pinching and everything it’s like it’s. Not a good look. Okay, removal latto yeah, jurors did years occur to you, meredith? Yes. Stay on topic with what they’re like on message with the rest of the organization. So if you are, you know, running a campaign on one particular topic, you want to make sure that all of your messaging through text is the same same graphics? Oh, no, same. Is that ok? But then you also want to be very sensitive about what’s going on in current affairs. If there is a saying, you know ah, school shooting or something. You don’t want to be sending out your joke that same exact day. Okay, consider context on what’s happening in the big world. In fact, outside your organization. There’s a world outside your work. Okay, because we’re gonna leave it there. That’s meredith begin mobile strategist for a planned mobile messaging. Mr and ellen nasco, mobile marketing manager for the humane society of the united states. Meredith ellen, thank you so much. Thank you for having me back. Would you lighten up a little bit? Did you loosen up a little? You know? Not not even a little. Even a little know. All right. Well, anyway, thank you on dazzle. Our interviews are at ntc at eighteen. Ntc this interview responsive by network for good he’s a used dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you so much for being with us in eighteen. Ntc. Let’s, take a break. Wagner. Cps. Start your due diligence. It’s at wagner, cps dot com. Okay, so go there. Get comfy. Cozy with the firm. It’s it’s. Other clients practices areas, etcetera. Then pick up the phone and i urge you talked to you eat huge tomb he’s a partner there. You know he’s. Been a guest here. You tell him what your needs are. He’ll listen. Tell us they can help you. No pressure, he’s. Not that way. Chatham up, he’s. Good people eat each tomb. Start at wagner cps dot com now time for tony’s. Take two. Summer is close. Very close. So now is the time to make the time for your time away. And i very much hope that that is going to include time off the grid. No e mail, no phone, no. Any other contact with the online world, which is we’re going to talk about the in rio in real life world very shortly. No contact with that online world. Get away from it. At least for part of the time. My encouragement video is that tony martignetti dot com goodling dot com. Now hear this. I’m a safe too. Looked our founder of good link at goodland dot com non-profits connect with businesses that advanced their missions. When i want the best connections i listen to non-profit radio. Thank you, chief. Good link with a c l a and see the new marketplace. Where non-profits meet vendor’s. No cost to you. Your bridge, your connector to products and services. I’ve tried to help them get started. See what you think they could check him out. Good link with si dot com. Now i have to live. Listen love and the etcetera, etcetera. So just going down the line. Ottawa, ontario live. Listen love up to yu up north munich, germany. Good dog. Uh, lou salome does california, waterbury, connecticut, brooklyn, new york, new york, new york, las vegas, nevada. Lovett, tampa, florida live listener love to each of those people, places and cities on the podcast pleasantries to our over twelve thousand on the podcast we might be pushing thirteen. You know, i haven’t looked lately, but i get a suspicion from another’s metric. Ah, so glad that you were with us. Podcast podcast audience the pleasantries go out to you and the affiliate affections toe am and fm am and fm listeners throughout the country affections to you as well. Now time for emily patterson and digitally track your hyre l work. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc from new orleans, louisiana, at the convention center. This interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use. Donorsearch monisha meant and fund-raising software for non-profits. My guest is emily patterson she’s, founder of be measured. Welcome, emily. Hello. Thanks for having me come back. Because we i talked to you yesterday too. I was part of a panel. Now you’re solo. Good to have you. Yes, my pleasure. And your topic. This time for today is track your non-profits i r l work digitally. You love digital thatyou love data, right? You’re in, you’re in data deep. Yep. I am a data fiend. Okay, i think your session description may have said data data. Geico data nerd. You know so many where it’s cool to be a nerd now i definitely yes, it absolutely is. Ten years ago, even five years ago, it was not so cool. Yeah, absolutely is. Read the twitter profiles so many of them say geek nerd yes, yeah, i always tell people i do the nerdy side of marketing so it’s off in the stuff that other people you know don’t want to do. Because it’s not creative, it involves lots of excel. Okay, but you’re in it. And you love wonderful. All right, so what what’s? Why do we need this session? It’s just break it down. What what’s so what’s so important here is not getting done quite right. You feel so? I mean, the just rolling up our sleeves if you don’t watch in the video she’s rolling up the sleeves, okay? We’re getting into it. No. Excellent. My inspiration was that there’s. So many tools to track online what you’re doing, you know, if you’re putting out stuff on social media or your website or email or basically anything that’s on the internet or digital talk, did digitalized weight t think of anything that’s online? It’s still easy to track, you know, it’s probably harder to figure out what data to be looking at or to pick a vendor to track it than it is to actually get the data that’s the easy part, but a lot of non-profits i would say almost all of them, i mean, they’re not just based on line, they have a lot going on on the ground, too, you know, the people that they’re trying to serve, they live rial lives there, sometimes interacting with computers or their cell phones, but they’re doing a lot in their regular life to that you want to know about. So this was toe look at a couple of different case studies for how non-profits in two totally different fields? S o we had conservation and then consumer protection about how they built these digital platforms and then got people to report on what they were doing in their real lives into them and then so they could get the data. Teo, create more educational content or depress outreach or, you know, tweak their programs that they were more effective. So it’s pretty cool. Okay, so, what’s, the best way to go into the show. We just should we go right into the case studies that you have a way to relay cem groundwork even more first. What do you feel? You think we’re ready for the case studies? I mean, there was a couple i could talk a little bit about similarities between the problems that they faced. Or maybe i should explain the case studies first. Ok, let’s, do the case study. All right. So now i saw three in your description is just too well that you two have america forest new dream in the better business bureau. We’re focusing on two out of three. Yeah, so i had better business bureau and american force foundation. And there is two projects for american force foundation that were, you know, kind of. Couple clolery okay. The new dream is out. Yeah. New dream. They were unable to attend the conference. Fortunately, turned into a nightmare. So wait. Although they’re very nice there’s still sleeping. You dream is still sleeping. Okay. Let’s do america first. So america, i’m sorry. Murcott forest. What can we what can we learn from that? What was the story there? So american forest foundation there non-profit that serves people who own forested land of ten acres or more. So it’s a very specific audience. Unfortunate it’s also very hard to reach audience because it’s not like you can just by an email list or going for on facebook and, you know, just target this demographic because, i mean, what do they have in common is how do we know who owns for us, huh? So if they’re not publicly owned, okay, so american forest foundation, they’re always trying to get data from these people about, you know, you know, what do they care about? What are they doing on their land? Because ultimately, they want teo get them more involved in conservation activities, especially in the on the east coast of the us. We think about forestland, force land is, you know, being part of a national park or a state park. But actually, a lot of it is owned by thieves. Private landowner. So might be people who inherited it from there their families or it’s a vacation property. So it’s, lots of smile parcels and, you know, it’s important at that time, akers could be minimum minimum ten acres. There are small. Yeah. So it’s important for them to know. And they’re geographically dispersed right over the country. Or is this international organization or this is the us? Us. Ok, but they’re all over the country, obviously, all right. Nor they’re all over the country. But it’s a lot of people, especially on the east coast. Yeah. Okay. Oh, really? A lot. Mostly these interesting. I would’ve thought mostly western or at least midwest. No. Ah, well, there’s. Not that many for forest land. Not just private driving ownership. Okay. Forest land? Yes. Okay. There’s. A lot more nationally. Own land and thoughtful and setting me straight. Okay. Yes, there is a lot more force. Like fairies are important too. I’m sure. Alright, but we’re not dealing with america prairie. Okay, there might be a different non-profit. Go ahead, please. Anyway, so geever a lot of people, you know, in the land, and they just kind of sit on it. Where? There. There are things that they need to be doing to take good care of it personally, i’m not a forrester, so i can’t go into great detail. But, you know, to improve water quality and animal habitat and protect against forest fires, lots different things. So american force foundation is always trying to reach these people, and you get data from them about, you know what they’re doing on their land and how best to get them to take these actions. So they have a couple of products. The website i was talking about was my land plan and it’s kind of part. It sprung out of a survey that the, um, national forest service did back in, like twenty eleven or so talk to these small landowners, and they found that, you know, they they didn’t really have a lot of good information about forestry that was catering to them. It was very written for a very professional level audience. They didn’t have a lot of good tools to understand what they needed to do, so they built this website for this audience. You know, to be a tool for them. My land plan. Okay, sell. How did they, how did they drop people, too? This site, with the constituency being so difficult, identify how they get people to my land plan. Yeah, that was definitely the challenge. Through ah, a lot of adjusting and a lot of facebook ads honestly ended up being one of the best ways to our get to them. So i know there’s a lot of kind of facebook ads, there’s a lot of bread press going on with them right now, way, i’m not sure when this is going to air, but we’re in the air in the week when mark zuckerberg is testifying two days before different congressional committees about facebook’s collaboration or whatever i work with cambridge analytica and also the russian hacking. So justo filled listeners and i don’t know when we’re going to be airing this, but it may be a couple months from now, but just hearken back to that’s. What emily’s referring to this is mark zuckerberg week in washington d c okay, please, no. Yeah, i mean so. Yeah. One hand. I understand. Where? That’s? Yeah. Where that’s coming from. However, at least one having worked with ff actually, at this point, i used to work for a photo. And then anyway, this is a couple of years ago. So we tried all sorts of different ways of marketing this site. Buying advertising and local newspapers in certain areas where we wanted to reach those landowners buy-in email lists and facebook ads were by bar in a way, the most effective way to reach people when we tested a lot of different messages and it’s kind of ironic, but the hunting message targeting people who are interested in hunting, who we’re interested in improving their land because they wanted to attract more turkeys or deer elk. Teo ended up being the most effective way we were able, tio get new sign ups for the site, but the person who is in charge of this program is a vegetarian, so it was always paying her to be writing these he’s hunting and all right, so so they that’s how they got people to the site and then what’s the what’s the lesson we can learn from from a f f thiss survey site, so it didn’t really start off as a way to collect data about landowners, but we quickly realized, like, what a great treasure trove it wass we have set up a lot of tracking using both google analytics and then also, you know, because it’s a platform where people can come in and they can identify, you know, what goals they have for their land. They can map their land. They can select, like, almost like a project management type tool that they want. Teo, you know, they do this or that in there. Future. I’m listselect future projects. So we have all of this information. And we know where in the country these people are and we know, um, you know what, what sorts of things they have on their land, how many acres, you know, have these certain activities identified with a lot of information for them. So kind of in the meantime, american force foundation is transition to focus more moron lesson. Finding every single landowner in the us and communicating with all of them to focusing on landowners in certain areas that have kind of priority projects like theirs. You know, certain parts of the country where there’s, you know, type of tree that really needs to be rehabilitated because it’s a home for a certain type of wildlife, i want you. I want to explain this to me like you’re talking to your friend. Okay, okay. Duitz you know, just, you know, let’s, drill down. So what if you if if i was asking you what you know what? One of the lessons i can learn from this case? What, what, what can we learn? Just help me get to the bottom. I’m going to get to the bottom line of what’s the value for listeners. In studying this case, what can we learn about their use of data up? In-kind let me think about it. Okay, well, you know, so so you know, in terms of hyre what? What was the what? I guess? What was the value to the organisation for collecting all this different type of data? About size and what’s on it now, and what their future plans might be mean? How did they how did how did ff then use the data? I’m trying to get out? Yeah, so right now they’re, you know, kind of like i said, focusing on certain areas of the country so it’s, pretty cool because you can they’re very interested in measuring whether something was effective or not. So with forestry it’s hard to tell, if you know, like ultimately their end goal here is to, you know, grow, re grow up a type of forest, but that’s a goal. That’s, you know, one hundred years out. So my lamp has been a great way of seeing, like, are people taking kind of intermediate level actions to kind of get them to this bigger endgame? So, you know, we don’t previously, you know, you might be sending people surveys in the mail to ask them, you know, have you done? X y z or they would, you know, schedule a visit with, like, with a forester. That was another big thing. You know, those are all very time consuming to measure, you know, anything that involves the mail or in person visits are super expensive and, you know, just very teo. So this was kind of a way for, you know, people to proactively go online and do some self reporting on those actions. And so then they’re so enormously scalable. Targetable you, khun, drive people from certain regions to there? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So now you have all these people in this platform, and we know they live in a certain area so you can see if they get thes e mails, messages from their local forestry department saying, like, hey, you need to do this stuff on your lands, go to the platform, you know, i read about it. Then schedule this thing, you know, now we have the ability to track that whole process and be able to see okay, five percent of the people who got this e mail did x y z. You know, previously they had no idea. You know, people might get a postcard in the mail a postcard in the mail saying they need to do something or visit from a forestry professional. And you know who knows what happened with that. Okay. Got to take a break. Tell us i have this tello’s moughniyah lll quote tell us, has opened up a whole new stream of donations for our non-profit. It has allowed business owners to support us without any additional cost to the company. That’s barry dodson, founder of accelerate ministries. Whole new stream of donations. That’s. The long tail of passive revenue for you. Year after year. Do you need more revenue? Get started at tony dahna slash tony. Tell us now back to digitally tracked your iron will work. You built this site for people to go to it’s. Really sort of a survey. But it’s, not a male chimps survey, you know i mean it’s it’s. A lot friendlier and more interactive. So it’s not your it’s. Not what most people think of is a survey. No it’s. A little bit, i think it’s interesting because it’s a little bit of ah it’s. A little bit for the audience and then it’s also a little bit for the organization it’s a tool that useful for them, there’s a lot of information on there. But then it’s also, you know, gives data toe ff that they wouldn’t have otherwise. S o i think, you know, that’s definitely. One of the lessons is you can’t create a platform that’s just hey, give us a bunch of data about yourself because most likely people aren’t going toe really wantto participate in that. So there has to be an incentive for land value for them. Okay? Okay, very good. I think one of the things that affected you at the data that was interesting that people the users always really liked is they would dio kind of a report at the end of the year putting together hey, this is what was most popular on my land plan and send it out to the users. So it’s, kind of like, even though you’re giving us your data, you know, we’re doing stuff with it, like you get to see it too, and they, like, you know, people are always kind of nosy about what everyone else is doing. So shared results. Okay, very good any more? Anything else we should flush? Out about that one before we go, the better business bureau. That’s it. We covered it. Okay. Okay, how about the better business bureau story? All right, so there’s one is this one is totally different thing. This is about scams. What kind of scam? So and honestly, this one is a kind of an interesting mirror image to the other story. So better business bureau. They, you know, they of course report on businesses, but they also get a lot of people interested in reporting scams to them. And it was kind of always something that people would think of when they thought of the better business bureau about for a long time. They didn’t. They didn’t have anything to do. They didn’t have any way for people to report if they had been contacted by a scammer had fallen for a scam. They only did legitimate businesses and complaints against real businesses that exists. We’re talking about mail scams, email scams, phone scam. Pretty much any type of scale. Okay, not just business scams. Yeah, right. Not just a fraudulent business. Okay, so it would be something like, you know, somebody might contact you pretending to be a real business like you get an email from someone saying, oh, you know, this is capital one. You need to update your password please click on this link and then enter yourselves security number and your mother’s maiden name. Why stop there? Both date of birth would be nice to be needed to have that also. Okay, so they didn’t have a capacity for collecting all this. Then obviously, they want to turn around and help consumers. All right, so so what do they do? Yes. So they do, you know, do a lot of consumer education. So so they build on a platform, you know, just like american forest foundation. But this time, instead of people reporting on their land, its people reporting on their scams. So it’s called bbb scam tracker and you have you, you know, cia facebook scam. Just bring up space. Look again. Or you you get called by some on the phone. You go there and you fill out this form, has information about you know, what was the business that contacted you? What was the method? They have classifications of different scam. So, it’s, basically some information about your your age and location. Whether you’re a member of the military, ah lot of different fields that they used for reporting, you feel that all out and you felt the scam details and then it goes into a database and unfortunately, baby is not a yeah, you know, police, so they unfortunately can’t investigate and arrest anybody, but they’ve been using this for, you know, consumer education would create a lot of contents with it, you know, the it’s all open to the press, you know, not your personal details, but reporters will go in there to find victims so that they could do stories help alert people about, you know, these scams because honestly, i think, like, awareness just knowing like this is out there, don’t click on this is the most important thing. What kind of content if they’ve been creating from it, you know, news articles, you know, it’s regularly, pretty in aa i was just working the other day because they’re one of my clients, too, you know, helping a reporter from cbs, you don’t find victims for for a story about, you know, a new scam, so that happens all the time they do alerts or anything as they see trends they say, you know, we’re seeing this special kind of phishing scam with this particular kind of phishing scam that they do consumer alerts also, yes, they dio in fraud. I know i’m the data person, but i actually write the alerts about scared. Okay? Fashion first. Okay. Okay, so, yeah, i mean, when i will go in there or i will get an email from one of the local bvs saying, you know, hey, we’re seeing a lot of phone calls from this are also a lot of reports on this certain thing and write a weekly alert about it. So this week, if you are interested, i can tell you about by what i wrote what’s happening this week. Go ahead. So, honestly, that it is i have been doing this for maybe eight years now, and it never stops like there’s, always some sort of new scam out there. And so this week it was, and scammers are if you leave a bunch of tabs open on your browser, which i do all the time, i got jammers. Scan if you have, like, a log in page, they can hack into your computer and up. You know, reload the website with a fake log in paige. So if you have, like, the log into your bank up there, the real instead of it being, you know, wells fargo dot com it’s now skim, skim scam dot com. But you don’t look at the girl so you can put in your log in information, and then now they have it covered, so don’t keep so don’t keep form form pages open means it only for loggins or could be and it could be any form. I suppose it could be any. Yeah. Ok, i suppose it could be any page, but they wanted to be a log in because that’s, where you’re going to be entering. Okay. Well, the information that i can tell it was a credit card purchase page. And then you went off to do some. You know what else to do? Research a comparative price somewhere else in the meantime. Okay, but keep your keep your keep your form. Tabs clothes don’t keep. Don’t keep tabs. Yeah. You know, we just don’t pay that much attention to what’s going on. I am guilty of this, too. Yeah. So always double check the girls, before you enter in operation. Okay. But baby does a lot of research to with the information that they collect. So they publish. You know, a yearly survey about yearly report on called the bubi annual scam report or something and it’s all about people who you know what data they have seen, what different demographics are affected by scams. You know what? What types of scams are trending? All sorts of they have. Ah, research department. Who handles this? Sal krauz okay, you want to give us closing thoughts and we’re going to wrap up closing thoughts about, you know, just about the topic. Generally. Why? Why? It’s important, teo track what’s going on in real life using digital data. Yeah. So i think having the data in a in a digital for data of courses are always a existed through surveys. O r, you know, people on recording things on paper to having a digital way is it makes just just so much more useful, like so much more accessible. So you can have. You know, neither of these organizations. Bebe is national. But, you know, they only have a few people in their in their national office working on the sort of thing. So you can, with a smaller staff, be able to produce, you know, some really interesting project. Products with your with your date that you’re collecting if you have it in a central location, and if you’re able to get your people who are spread out all over the place, tio. Report. What’s going on in their lives, you know, i’m just a contractor for baby. I spend only a couple hours a week writing these scam alerts, but it’s, because i have all that information in one place i don’t have to, like, call up people from all over the country. Teo, to get this. And because of that, you know, were able to get, you know, lots of press, pick up outreach and just do a lot more education. So even though it seems like a big expense to build these platforms, you know, i definitely think it’s worth it. If it’s a part of your mission. Yeah, if you have a lot of especially a lot of educational. If you have a big educational mission where you’re tryingto reach a lot of people, data is now really important, you know? I think good, we’re gonna leave it there, and it was important way opened with we opened with data data nerd and never got close with the importance of data. She’s emily paterson, founder of be measured that’s b e measure and this is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference all our interviews here are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you very much, emily. Thanks. You’re welcome. Thank you for being with us next week. More special wisdom from the non-profit technology conference. If you missed any part of today’s show i d seat you find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps dot com and by tello’s, credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line. Producer shows social media is by susan chavez. 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