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Nonprofit Radio for February 1, 2019: Successful Run/Walks & #19NTC

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My Guests:

Emily Parks: Successful Run/Walks
Emily Parks melds her productivity consulting with her experience in run/walks to give you her best tips that will make your sporting events winners. She’s founder of Organize for Success.




Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward:#19NTC
The 2019 Nonprofit Technology Conference is March 13-15 in Portland, OR. Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor, CEO of NTEN and a Portlander, shares why you need to be there. Hint: You’re reading this. You use technology.



Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Nonprofit Radio for November 2, 2018: Working Virtual & Map Your Data To Your Audiences

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

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Heather Martin & Alice Hendricks: Working Virtual
We talk through the issues encountered when managing remote staff: technological; generational; emotional; measurement; recruiting and retaining. Our panel is Heather Martin from Interfaith Family and Alice Hendricks with Jackson River. (Recorded at #18NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference.)

 

 

Courtney Clark & David Mascarina: Map Your Data To Your Audiences
Feed your folks the data they crave. Courtney Clark and David Mascarina have identified 5 audience types and their data needs. She’s with Forum One and he’s from the Conrad N. Hilton Foundation. (Also recorded at #18NTC.)

 

 

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Transcript for 414_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181102.mp3

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with strep. Oh, simba, leah if i had to read that you missed today’s show working virtual we talk through the issues encountered when managing remote staff technological, generational, emotional measurement, recruiting and retaining. Our panel is heather martin from inter faith family and alice hendricks with jackson river. I was recorded at eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference and map your data to your audiences. Feed your folks the data they crave. Courtney clarke and david mask arena have identified five audience types and their data needs she’s with forum one and he’s fromthe conrad and hilton foundation that’s also recorded at eighteen. Auntie si, tony, take two who’s on first, we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising david driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com bye! Tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Here’s working virtual welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we’re coming to you from the convention center in new orleans second interview of the second day of our coverage all our ntcdinosaur interviews are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests right now are heather martin, ceo of inter paid family, and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. Heather alice, welcome. Thank you. Welcome to non-profit radio. What have you wanted to be here? How’s? The conference going for you ladies? Great. Have you done? Yeah. Excellent. Okay, great. Next one. That goes good. Superlative. Have you done your session yet? We did. We were on yesterday morning. Okay. So, it’s all relaxing now? Right now, we’re just partying. Drinks last night. Exactly. Okay, all right. Your workshop topic is working virtual attracting and managing the best talent. I’m sure we have stats on how many organs non-profits have virtual employees. Or at least what the trends are. It’s it’s obviously growing. It’s really growing wouldn’t be here. And not only in the nonprofit world in the for-profit world as well, and especially in tech. Yeah, okay, absolutely it’s becoming it because of the technology that can enable easily to work from home, your chat technologies, videoconferencing, it’s become a thing and everyone is doing it now on exploring whether it works for their organizations a lot. Let me dive into the word, everyone not to quibble with you at all, but i was thinking generationally, are there fifty and sixty some things that are comfortable working, being virtual? Not well, maybe we’ll get to whether they’re comfortable having virtual employees. They will get to that. My voice is cracked like i’m fourteen get that, but how about being virtual employees themselves? Are they comfortable? I’m over fifty, so include myself in that? Are we comfortable doing that? Or, you know, i think it actually depends on the organization and it’s really dependent on the organization making the employees comfortable, and so i’m not sure i don’t know if you have any stats, but i don’t know from an age perspective, there’s a very good question about an older generation being comfortable having virtual employees under the managing them, however, as being the virtual employee, i think it’s all about how the organisation sets it up. Okay. Excellent. All right, so that there’s promised them for those fifteen. Sixty something? Absolutely. Okay. Okay, let’s, talk about it. Since since we’re skirting around it, how about comfort or discomfort with having employees being virtual when you’re over fifty? So i again, i i think that there might be an age discrepancy in the comfort, but i also think it’s just personality, and i’m finding that when i talked to a lot of people who are looking to work virtual and they’re asking me, what can i do to go to my manager, my supervisor and quote unquote, sell them on me working virtually my answer to them is find out what the resistance is. There is part of the resistance as we’ve always done it this way i need to see my employees to know that they’re working. And how do you get around that? Some of the key things that we talked about in our session are setting very clear goals and making sure that those goals are being met. But let’s, go to alice talk to flush out the gold. Gold setting a little. Yeah, i mean, i think that there’s not that much difference in terms of goal setting in terms of accountability for delivery, bols, that you’re supposed to be doing so used that the real issue is communication making sure you have a structure where there’s frequent communication and proof that you’re doing the delivery ble. So you’re measured not on a punch clock style of i get to work at nine. And i leave at five. And therefore i must have worked during that eight hour period you’re measured based on what is the work you were set out to do. And did you actually do that work in the time period? I said i would do it. So if you’re a project manager are working on a program area you work with your you work with your supervisor on here, the things that i’m going to get done at a particular time. And if that’s not done that’s ah, that that could be a concerned that’s a problem, but that’d be a problem in the non workplace too, but rather than time. It’s mostly based on work product. Okay, okay. So that should apply even if you don’t have any virtual, i think one of the things we found is that working virtually is this, or managing virtually is the same as managing in an office. But you just have to be much more intentional about what you’re doing. Much more intentional about your communication, understanding that you’re not gonna have that water cooler conversation, that someone’s not going over here. Something and understand where you are in a project and b ready to communicate with those people who are not physically in the office. But the management and the psychology of the management is very similar. Okay, it’s, very valuable, you know, and make explicit. Yeah. How about attracting people, teo a virtual or attracting the right talent so that we’re comfortable that they’re gonna work in this work environment? What do you, what you thought? Well, there’s. Two thoughts on that that i have one is what one is that your talent pool is the entire country or world, should you see fit? And there are wonderfully talented people in places that aren’t in the city or town in which your organization is located, and it gives you this ability to recruit from a wide place. And you can also hyre incredibly talented people from who have a wonderful life style. In a less cost of in my organization, we have people who live in a lower cost of living state than washington, d c where were based, and that allows me to provide a living wage and for my employees in that. But the other thing is just you, when you’re recruiting, you have to be very mindful of the interview process, and i think one of the things we talked about in our session was helping people figure out who these folks, how well they’ll respond to working virtually how do you do that in an interview? Yeah, who’s best with that, heather so so some of the things that that we recommend, some of the things that we recommend is number one, we use technology as a tool to enhance communication in a virtual environment. So sometimes you’re using video comp, renting just for a regular meeting, and you’re talking through instant messenger and there’s other ways you’re using technology. So in the interview process, i always recommend that people use the technology that you’re going to require those employees to be using during their job if they can’t do an interview on skype or zoom or appearance and it’s very uncomfortable, it’s not to say that that might not be a good employee for you, but you have to be aware that there might need to be some training or development on that tool for them and no going. Into that is important when you’re hiring that person, and if you see generally a discomfort with technology that’s a pretty big red flag, or or or a red flag that you might need to overcome or that person’s not right for the position, and then the other question is some positions just don’t lend themselves to working virtually, and you have to be aware of that when you’re hiring also what are from? Well, one of the easiest ones that we look at it if you’re an office manager and you’re managing the physical office days, it’s really difficult to be virtual when you need thio notice that there’s a crack in the ceiling where the vendor needs toe, you know, deliver something and be their way. We don’t have a tool for measuring the coffee level. Zack remotely happen. And now there’s an app for that you can probably it’s time for a break pursuing they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They want you to see this because they’ve taken the secrets from the fastest growing startups and applied those to your non-profit it’s free as all the pursuant resource is, are you accustomed to that? Come on, it doesn’t even bear saying it’s on the listener landing page that’s at do you know where tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now back to working virtual or any others that stand out to you? I think it depends on the industry and what the job you’re doing. If you’re someone who does intake or you have to be there to welcome people into the office, you need someone physically there. There may be hybrids where sometimes people could work in the office and sometimes people could work from home. And i think thinking this through before you moved to a virtual environment or virtual job for that specific role is ki you can’t just say, ok, tomorrow we’re just gonna go virtual zoho alice, how do you how do you create this environment? Gonna be hospitable? Toe virtual? I mean it’s all about culture. You have to create a culture where everyone is communicating well with each other, where people know what the expectation is on response times of communication has got to start at the top. It has to start a willingness that you absolutely to accommodate virtual employees. Okay, so it starts there and how does that how does the ceo trickling down? You adhere to it. So rather than walking from my office into someone else’s office and telling them what i think they should know that maybe two other people who aren’t physically, they’re also need to know i will do that on a slack channel, for example. So i’ll use an instant messenger chat program, and i’ll put them all on the channel and talk to them all together at once, even though you were the mark, even if that’s the situation. Yeah, because it requires amount of discipline because you don’t want to leave people out. The interstitial conversation that happens at the water cooler can also be done virtually and that’s pretty important, too. Okay. All right. We’re going to get the tools you mentioned. Slack, slack channel. Is that that it’s? All okay, okay. A chat. It’s. Simple chance a chance. A chance for you. You’re over my head, but i’m trainable. Alt-right i could be a virtual employees trust way. Mind of some technology challenges there, but we could get there. I’ll be there immediately. Got the radio stuff? Yeah. I’m very good at that. I mean, i got knobs and everything in front of buttons and all. I don’t know what they do. Okay, what else? Uh, anything else about creating the environment, making inhospitable? I think some of the things that seem or some of the other things are making sure that your remote employees have the tools, whether it’s, the technology or even a monitor to go along with that laptop that you’ve given them because some some people who go into a new job, they’re given a laptop, they say work from home and it’s not as easy as just is your home office conducive and being able to help them think through what are the things that they need to set up in a virtual environment to make them successful and effective at what they’re doing. We talked about it a little bit about security and knowing what the security measures are. You can’t go into a coffee shop and work from your computer. Number one. Are you on the y fire you on the public wifi? Are you on a virtual private network? Are you using your hot spot? You’ve to go the bathroom and your computer’s sitting in starbucks do you leave it there and ask the person next youto watch your computer while you go to i mean, we set policies around these things, especially in organizations that have a lot of regulations on data and accessibility for their information. These are things you have to think about when you’re creating a virtual environment. Okay? It could be hip, baby what’s the credit card p c m p c i b c i okay, what do you do when you’re at starbucks alone? You’re on you’re on a vpn virtual private network? Yeah, you have to go the bathroom. You gotta close up. You use the diaper changing table in and you pull it down in the restroom and put your laptop on that. Take care of your business. Okay? It’s? Very. You know, i love the ditty gritty. This are listen, i mean, we’re all about real life here. Way need detail. You need clear policies around policies that people sign and everyone is very well aware of what the security policies, our protection use of technology. You said the company’s versus your pride, your personal technology home versus away from home. Okay, all right. Help me out here. Getting else what else belongs all this? What else belongs in our policy? Well, so there’s, we’re talking about there’s communication policies. How? I mean, one of the things that we found when we first started having more virtual employees. We started as an in office, evan was in the office, and as we grew into different communities, we had employees in different cities and states than our headquarters were located in and things like when i sent an email, i just need you to acknowledge that the email resent if you’re in the office and i send you an e mail and you haven’t responded, i could walk into your office and say, hey, you get my e mail even if you’re not ready to respond to it. I know you’ve gotten it, and by five o’clock that day, i’ll get an answer when someone’s virtual and you send an e mail, you have no idea if it got lost, did it go into their spam and you have to get some kind of communication with one quick got it. So we said a communication policy that says if i asked you something or requested something, you send an email back saying, i got it, and i’ll get back to you by wednesday period the end it’s all set, and so that that you need to be very much more aware of those types of things and other community way have communication policies that go along with that. Okay, alice, you want teo or policy statement? I mean, the security, i think, is the most important, you know, the email security, the hacking potentials. You know what happens also, when someone is let go, the lockout procedures, they have access to all of your systems, and they’re, you know, in north dakota somewhere to coffee shop, you have to shut down all of their access to things. So all of that needs to be planned at the level in the company. What are you going to do and how you handling staff with remote devices? Can we do this if we don’t have a dedicated staff person? And we don’t have a dedicated staff person? Yes, face-to-face so the family says the answer is yes, okay, because are you know, we’re small and midsize non-profits in this audience, listeners. So you you on board someone with technology when they leave, you do the same thing on lee with a virtual person, you don’t physically have them there, and so you have to do the same thing you would do if someone was in the office, but make sure you couldn’t do it while they’re not physically there. How did they get your computer back to you? Do they fedex it to you? Are you going to go pick it up somewhere if they’re not there? And so just those types of things need to be thought through, okay? No. Excellent. I love the policy statement details because this is stuff you have to think through, and then alice to your point, has to be activated, implemented on from the top absolutely can’t just have a policy and ignore it. You know, if if it’s the ceo hyre it’s a sea level person whose whose distant you know, they too have to say, i got your e mail and i’ll get back to you by wednesday, everybody has to play by the same rules. There shouldn’t be exceptions or any accommodations or anything else. Yeah. Okay, um, how about let’s talk about some of the needs that your remote staff has we’ve been talking about managing the office? What what special needs to the people? But we only see a couple of times a year that’s a great question, okay? I mean, i think they way it took that long, they need community, they need a partner, they need a buddy, they need to know that they’re not all alone. I’m so frequent meetings daily standup calls on dh heather’s organization native oppcoll standup called well, it’s a it’s, a phrase for a daily time when you just spend fifteen minutes sort of roll going around the company’s saying who’s doing what that day or our a team, if you’re working on a project together, you know everyone’s together on either a video chat or a conference call, or it could even be during us dahna slack channel or a skype group or a google hangout, or any type of technology that people can come together for a period of time. The more frequent that happens, the more connected they feel, and there is an issue of feeling lonely, it’s not that you’re just going off on your back room and typing all day long on your own, you need to be part of a community and part of a team. And the technology helps enable that. And heather’s organization there’s you do? What is it a buddy? So anyone who is new who comes on board there’s a couple things we do one is, no matter what level you’re at, you come to boston for a couple days, toe on board. You actually see physical people that’s probably essential. It’s, really? It was one of like he learnings when i started working virtually is to know that there’s a physical person and a physical space or just seeing meeting someone face-to-face gives you much more of a connection to them immediately. The other thing we do is when we hire people we kind of give them we give them a partner. So we hyre associate director her in l a and we put them with the associate director in atlanta. This is not a mentor. This is not a supervisor. This is someone you can ask the dumb questions too. Like, how do i get my expenses paid? Or i’m sure they told me this during orientation, but i don’t know what. To do about x, y and z and just having that person that you know you can go to is critical, especially when you’re by yourself in an office or in your home, and you’re trying to go up the learning curve of starting a new job. Okay? All right? What else? Uh, anything else to be a empathetic to our remote employees again, this is a typical management. I would say this you should be doing this any time is just everyone’s intent is good. Assume that is good and there’s a good intent all all the time. That could be that that that’s going to have implications for chatting any female? No, you can’t you’ll never hear the well, not never, but most of the communications you’re not going to hear the inflection in the person you don’t see the sometimes you don’t see the physical, you don’t see the physical, you don’t get the inflection, and so before you jump into anything or someone sent and i get this all the time and sends me an email and says i need blank, well, that could be taken in so many different ways. Are you demanding something from me did ice not get you something there’s so much in just those three words? And so my first thing is tio okay, they have good intentions. Let me follow-up you need blank by when? What is this for? Get mohr information, they’re not now. They could be like you haven’t done something, i need it now and could be screaming it could be screaming at you with the default is the default is not do that and what we do actually, as we have everyone’s created communications charter that says how they like to be interacted with. And so i understand if you are one of these people who sends very short emails, i also have the flipside where someone sends me seven paragraph emails to describe one thing. And so if i understand how you interact, i could read that email with that understanding, not teo immediately assume that you’re yelling at me in the e mails. Excellent. Okay, very valuable. Are anything else? Anything else to be supportive again? Empathetic to the remote employees if we covered it, recovered it? But i want to make sure we’re the only other thing i can think of is definitely getting together at least once a year with the whole team culture building wants that, yeah, it’s tough, it’s, tough in a non-profit environment where you’ve got a very tight budget, but we have prioritized and all in person meeting in boston, so we’ve got staff in california, in chicago, in atlanta and philadelphia. We make sure that we try in our budgeting process to bring everyone to boston for two days during the summer, not only for good brainstorming and thinking and strategy conversations, but also so they can connect with each other and have that community and build that in person conversation and feel comfortable with each other, and you feel like once a year is sufficient, you know, if i had the budget to do it more, i want a little longer, but all of that, yes. And so you have to take it for one of the that the tools that we talk about is the airplane. I mean, yes, it’s expensive, but it’s a really helpful tool to really get past some of the boundaries that are put up when you don’t actually physically meet in person. Alice, do you have a virtual employees also? Jackson river, thirty thirty. Thirty. Revoting entire organization is ritual. Oh, my god. Okay, where’s, the is there a physical office? There is a physical office with three people in washington d c yeah, but so we all behave as if were virtual. And there are many days that i don’t go into the office so in it. So you know, it saves a lot of money and transportation costs. It stays dry cleaning bills for everyone. It saves child care expenses. If you know it’s a very great way to have a lifestyle. Because yu yu have that flexibility, there’s also downsides to it. There are days that i wake up in the morning at six a, m and check email and all the sudden it’s too. And i haven’t eaten breakfast yet. And then i’m until six at night. So you know it’s a the same type of work-life integration needs to happen in a virtual environment as well as a physical office space. You know, you need to know how to take a break. You mentioned saving childcare expenses. So so the the remote employee it needs to be understood that the remote employee may not be immediately accessible right for a quick, you know, for for a last minute way gotta talk right now. So i think it’s about have something going on that is going to hold him up for ten or fifteen way try and make sure that people have adequate coverage to do their job during the day, the hours that they need to work. So we have a lot of employees that are at thirty hours a week because they want to spend more time with their families. Um, older children can be met at the bus stop and take care of themselves for a few hours in the afternoon, but the expectations of performance are still there. You know, we’re pretty high street standards of that, you know, we don’t want you to be distracted from your work. He managed the west coast versus east coast. Well, what is the west coast people have to do? The westfield people have to start at six a m local time. I think a lot of people do different policies on that. Our policy is that you work for the day that work the business day in the time zone in which you live. So it’s, sometimes hard if we’re dealing with europe and the west coast at at the same time because the time zones i don’t overlap is, well, every boy’s in europe, we don’t have employees in your body to have clients in europe. So it’s ah it’s a situation where we have to manage that, but there are organizations that have west coast people working east coast, ours you have that way don’t have explicit policy that you work those hours, but we ask people how early on the west coast, how early would you be willing to have a meeting? So we will not set meetings with some people? Some people are early morning people and they would rather work from seven to three rather than nine to five, and so we’ll work with your schedule individually and so we so there are some meetings i will have on the west coast is seven o’clock in the morning, but that’s due to that person willing to do that, we have a few minutes left still let’s talk about some of the tech tech tools back-up that was i gotta ask you about slack. But what? Black dot com how? Do we find it or what you do for us? Blackbaud comets, how you find it, you know, it’s it’s equivalent to skype or there’s google chat any type of chat software where everyone can log into and then there’s you can make groups in them. So the term for a group in slack is called a channel. And in our organization we have a channel for one of the channels is named lunch and if you’re going to be away for twenty minutes are going to lunch. We just take we just like everyone who’s in the company on that channel and say, hey, stepping away for a bit, i’ll be back in half an hour so we are all know it’s almost a cz though you would see me walk out the door, you know, and i instead of walking out the door i’m just telling that channel what’s happening there’s channels for each project also. So slack is a good one. Scott argast black is already a verb. Just like someone you’d like someone it’s a verbal. You skype someone you trust someone. Do you remember a well, instant messenger? That that was a one man was that you could use that well, i was. But okay, so slack for for chatting. A quick, quick chat about document sharing is simple google docks or something better. It’s a simple a school back and microsoft has a great year. We have this product microsoft’s one dr sharepoint microsoft suite has has a document sharing software. Ah, cloud based saving system skype is now skype for businesses and integrated with it. And so we’re using that in the office and then there’s there’s a ton of independent ones out there. And it’s, whether it’s, videoconferencing or it’s document sharing or it’s chatting there’s a ton out there. And i think it could be overwhelming. And for us it was evaluating what was best for our organisation and what our upper management was able. Teo use we talked about this before is modeling the behavior you want from your staff and so getting upper management on board was key. So one of our project management software we use a sauna, and we’ve tried three or four of them and our ceo like hassan, and so if she was going to use a sauna, we’re all going to use this on you and so i think that’s really important. It’s got to be easy to use and work for your organization. Calenda ring simple is good calendar ring, yet you have any other tools besides google calendar? We’re using outlooks calendar. Yeah, okay. Microsoft again. Yeah. All right. I think what other categories we need. Teo a video chat video is really important to scrape. A couple couldn’t do one on video with skype you khun duvette dio with google hangouts, but any time you can actually have an opportunity to see someone’s face and most of the calls we try to do as videos on dh, we find that that works really well. River again, the sense of community and if you can’t get together, that’s almost the next best thing and video has come a long way. The technology is more seamless than ever before, and so at least you’re seeing the person you might not get all of the nuance of the physical that that’s in the room. But you can see it in emotion or you can see a reaction to something which is super helpful or their cat walking of the cat we could get a lot of pets walking in front of the camera while people are on video that’s gonna be a lot of fun to talk about cats, but, you know, you have thirty virtual employees. You have fun doing it. I mean, oh, it’s awesome. Oh, it’s completely awesome is i love it. And well, you know, the best thing is that that people have really formed strong relationships with each other, they when you ask them what they like most about working here is they say each other, they say the people i’m here because i have connected relationships with other people on the team and to be able to create a culture where people feel connected to each other in a remote environment is is like, that’s the thing i’m most proud of, anything we’ve ever done, it doesn’t have to do their software product or what we’ve done to impact non-profits is the fact that we’ve had a culture of people that have had a wonderful time working and doing productive, impactful things. Jackson river always had a largest proportion of employees virtual from the beginning, when the beginnings and the culture to start about about it in the family way started as a two and a half person organization in the same way got to probably about eight to ten people in the office. And then our growth took us into different cities and communities. And that’s when we became virtual because of the growth, and so were probably half in the office in boston. And then half of our staff is outside and there’s one or two people in a city by themselves. We’re gonna leave it there. Excellent. Very much. Thank you. Alright. They are heather martin, ceo of interfaith family and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. And this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc ladies. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Way. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with your nine? Ninety or your brooks? Are your brooks or your books of those books? And brooks properly managed? Well, i could help you with the books. Eyes financial oversight in place so that your money isn’t going to fly out the door over the brook talkto wagner, partner, eat huge tomb. I’ve gotten to know him. I trust him. He’ll be honest about whether wagner is able to help you. You know where to go. Wagner, cps dot com now, tony steak too. I was at the lou costello statue in paterson, new jersey. Remember lou costello of abbott and costello and who’s on first. So what’s the connection, i hope, you know what’s on first is you’ve got to know that i mean who’s on first. Now who’s, what’s on second. I don’t know’s on third. I hope you know what i’m talking about. The connection is you gotta have some sense of history because this this comedy routine and the abbott and costello you they were from the forties, and if you want to be really successful, implant giving and you going to be actively talking to planned giving donors, you need to have some sense of history from the forties or fifties and vietnam. My video is that tony martignetti dot com now it’s time to map your data to your audience. Nces, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference day two we’re kicking off our date to coverage with courtney clarke and david mask arena all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits courtney clarke. Hello. Hello to you. Welcome. Let me give you a proper introduction. David, you could say hello. Hello, david. Mastering it from the convent and hilton foundation introduced himself. All right, david happens to be the digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. And courtney clarke is managing director of user experience forum one. Welcome. Good morning. Thanks for having us kicking off. Thanks for kicking off with us. Hey, happy to be here. You’re workshop topic is data and audience connecting to create impact. Okay, let’s, start with you. David. What do you think? Non-profits aren’t getting quite right in this subject. Like, why do we need this workshop? To be honest with you, tell you, please beyond yeah, don’t wear really blunt with the arika there’s a lot of data collection that’s happening in the nonprofit sector, but people don’t really do anything with it. There’s like a statistics where it’s like a very, very small percentage of non-profits you do something with data? And, you know, for example, there’s so many data points that in any day, that non-profit collectibe we have overload, i mean, really was data over there’s like there’s, like this just beautiful dash was like, what do we do with this? You have to stay close to michael, okay? All right, so we’re overloaded. So courtney, what we’re trying to do and have you had your workshop yet? Yes, we had it yesterday, so you’re on the downside. Yeah, this is easy for you. So what you were doing and then? And what we’re going to do now is trying make sense of data that well don’t feel overloaded. Well, it’s, it’s mostly around communicating data and really being clear about who your audiences are when you’re doing that cause we have identified five different data, sort of consumers or data people who will consume your data, but they all need different amounts of information, different formats. So for example, like a data consumer, this is like an interested person in the public. Maybe they’re a news consumer. They don’t have a lot of domain knowledge always, and they don’t have a lot of data skills, so what, you’re giving them is going to be very different than, say, a policy maker or a date. A producer. Okay, someone who’s more in depth in the details of it already knows, has has a yeah, you’ve identified let’s. Take it from there. We’ve identified five different audiences. Is that right? That’s? Different, different types of audiences. Okay, what are what are the five? We should start there. Yeah. That’s okay, what? Five? I’ll start. Okay. The next one. So data consumer two and then three e before there’s a ping pong tournament here. But we’re not. We’re not going out today. Okay, fair enough. So first is i mentioned the data consumer. This is i hate it when people say general public, because here you’re not really targeting everyone in the whole world. So let’s be a little bit more specific news consumers, people who are already interested a little bit. Okay, okay. Like i said, not a lot of dough mean knowledge. Not a lot of data skill. What you’re calling this group the data consumer. So this is the person you’re like scrolling through your news feed you’re looking at your phone. Ahn, do you see an instagram? Post or something on facebook, or even in the press in the news. And what do you see? You see an infographic that’s, simple right language that’s easy to understand. The point is very clear. That’s for the data consumer. They don’t have a lot of power, but there are a lot of those people. Okay? Hey, name another one. The next one is the data actor. So this is who everybody is targeting. This is decision makers, policymakers on dh. These folks may have some domi. Knowledge may have a lot of durney domain knowledge, but they don’t have time. So even if they do have dana skills, the ability to analyze and understand massive amounts of data didn’t have time to do that. They have analysts who are helping them do that sort of thing. But very important people. They have the staff, they have the cloud. They have our policymakers decision. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. Okay, david, just give us our remaining three. So, of course, to consume someone has to share it. So you got a date? A promoter. So these were the bloggers he got you get the journalist. The advocacy for folks. This software developers, the entrepreneur. So these people are the ones who are, like projecting that data out there so that the consumer and the actor be able to see that. And then you have the analyst, which is very, very important a lot. You missed this one too. It’s, like now i have all these data is beautifully being shared out being read, who in a way is a domain expert, this staffer that’s going to be able to analyze and help advice, what to do with the data. And then finally, the researcher you got, you know, these air, the phd folks, these are you know, i was talking about like jin ho was their learning officer, that comet and hilton foundation she’s a researcher, and we recently did a site visit nairobi, kenya, for one of our grantees, shopko shining hope for community and they have rich, rich data they’re collecting around there, committing kibera and compare, by the way, is the largest of informal settlement in africa and think about, like, a size of, you know, central park in a compressor that seven thousand people and there’s so much data that they’re collecting about the community and helping them with their health care and, you know, with an education and such and community services in the way when she’s taught dana, she was just, like, drooling all over it. But she’s, like, i want to do something that and she’s such an academic she just wants to, like, basically designed something around it. So these air, like the data modelers is with the academics of phd folks that will help let’s take the data to a new level. Alright, much so our audience is small and midsize. Yeah, non-profit twelve thousand. So we’re talking a lot of people there in small, small and midsize shop. Yeah, they need to identify which of these audiences they’re talking to some some may never be talking to to the researcher, right? Or the or the data actor. They might not be doing lobbying, so they may not be. So you have to identify which audiences you’re talking to, right? You guys hear me? Okay. And your headsets? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. I don’t hear myself too well, but as long as you hear me, ok, you have to identify who you’re talking to you and then okay, so so i guess we’re going to get through now there are different data needs different ways of conversing about data with data to each of these different audience that’s right? You don’t have that, right? Yes, we’re mapping needs and method to the five different audiences and the knowledge that they have tio and the time, right? So i mentioned the policymaker. They may have some expertise. They don’t have time right on time, don’t time like the researcher. Whereas the researchers, like, get out of my way. Just give me the spreadsheet, all query my own database, okay? And then also in the spirit of being totally honest, so they have to be honest with yourself who you’re going to deliver the data to, like. If it’s your board, it’s your board and it’s. Okay, you know, and some people are like, oh, this is only for one very specific orders and that’s. Good, you know, because they’re being very, very honest with yourself. Okay, very good. So let’s, start with the ones that are most likely for a small and midsize not to be talking. So certainly data consumer. Yeah. That’s your nose. Your nose could be your donors. I know you’re not calling your donor’s, maybe even just board members. Okay? Data actor. Maybe it could be any decision maker that could be your board as well. It could be. It could be your boss. It could be somebody who is influencing budgets influencing programming. This is the person who has the power to make a change. So it’s therein you figure out which ones were going teo so they’re they’re in data promoter. That could be a journalist. Yes. Right. So that’s potential. The analyst remind me. What’s what’s the likelihood of a small mid size shot talking to the analyst sometimes yeah, for smaller medium non-profit portable. Forget it. Yeah, yeah. Bonem altum but scale that xero scales up now we’re not going right. We’re not going treatable, but let’s, just talk about it, okay? I think what i think what’s different, though, for smaller midsize non-profits is that the people listening may be the ones doing the analysis themselves. They may not have a supper analyst. Okay. Yeah, and many came from currently hilton foundations. They get smaller foundation. And a lot of us were multiple hats. So someone might be liberta both, but yet, yet they still move every important. Okay? They’re all in. Okay? Yeah. All right. So what do we do for the data consumer? How do we have a retailer to that audience? Yeah. They’re a couple of key things. That’s. What we need. Yeah. So one is use plain language when you’re communicating to them, they may not know who you are, what you do, why it matters. Plain language is really key. Sometimes people get a little too marketing me. Sometimes they get a little too research. E you need to be able to say what you want to say in a really simple visual with some simple language like you’re talking to your friends. Yeah, we were at a dinner party. You’ve got ten seconds to explain what this is and what matter-ness schooling for. Graphic. That will do it for you or something like that, right? Or even just like a data point point. Okay, we got to take a break. Tell us, for pete’s sake, think of the companies you can refer and start asking them that’s the first step. Well, actually, the first step is watching the video. Then you start referring the companies and talking. To them, you’ve heard the testimonials from the charity’s. You’ve heard the testimony from the companies. It’s. Time to get that long stream of passive revenue for yourself. Start with the video. That is the first step video. Is that tony dot, m a slash tony tello’s. Now back to courtney clarke and david mask arena from eighteen. Ntc what’s. The summary. Yeah, and a couple of that with something you mentioned visually could be motion. Could be a visual visualization of data. It could be a story. It could be a video that couples with the data because just it’s. Just a lot more impact for when you, when you when you pair it, but okay, let’s, start to make sense. Your data consumer is gonna be a lot more interesting story then your analyst or your research eggs? Absolutely. And during our session yesterday, there are people in the audience who talked. We talked a lot about how we paired data with stories because the narrative makes it so much more riel, it elevates the people that are actually being affected by this data. So there were some great stories about that. Okay, okay. Back-up let’s, go to the well, anything else about the consumer? I mean, this is this is this is probably our largest constituency. Yeah, so i think the other thing is to be clear about what action you want them to take because your data should support that action don’t just and and actually that came up from an audience member yesterday who said people weren’t being moved by the data and so that’s why they started pairing it with stories and once somebody gets hooked and they feel those heartstrings being cold or they feel that passion rise that’s when you gotta capitalize and be really clear what the action is, whether it’s donating, volunteering on asking for more information yeah, signing up for the male daughter, give us your new gives your email yeah, and think about the safety step back a little bit this like you have to identify goal, like whether you’re trying to accomplish with this data set and it would help you help you with to decide like what to share in how to share that welfare that’s always important place to start gold. What was the purpose of this, exactly what we’re trying to move people and then we try to move people to do and then be clear about exactly called. Okay? That’s, right? And the goal is the hardest part. Frankly, knowing the goal is the hardest part. It’s on so simple, but it’s like that ask why five times you got to get to the real root of why you’re doing this. All right? We’re talking about our actor actor. Okay, refresh my recollection, who’s, this decision makers, policymakers, people who are going to make the change that you want, sir. Yeah. Okay. Okay. How do we talk to these people that data. So the format is briefings sometimes it’s in the form of a press release. They need, like, think about a policy maker who has a staff and maybe they have to vote on a bill or make a decision. The staff member is the one who’s calling non-profits calling agencies and saying what’s happening in my district around this topic. So being able to slice your data by topic and location is really valuable to these folks and getting this summary out and again the action. What? Why does this matter and their actions going to be different than the consumer? Usually you’re looking for a decision, a vote, something exactly what you want to say more about the actual, i think something that’s adjustable something that if you could package it for them, like staying here, the key takeaways from this a swell, you know, think of this, like, you know, you know, working the communications team. And, you know, we provide press kits for people. And if you could provided that, you know, so so they could easily digest and help, um, guide them through the decision making process, i think will be the key. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And i guess also keeping in mind you you may not be talking to the principal. Yeah, right, right. It could be a staff staff, something. Usually it is so it’s. Gotta be it’s. Gotta be so your your urine for always going through someone to the decision maker way don’t love that. Right? Twice removed, twice removed from your there once removed from your data. Yeah, it happens. I mean, that’s what? Any communication, though. Anytime you’re putting something out, somebody could take it. Andi at their own commentary around it. That’s what? The data promoter that’s a that’s a benefit in a risk, right? Because they could date a promoter could be multiplying. Your audience is your audience, but they could be putting their own message. They could be manipulating the data in a way that may not be true to it. But, you know, were you everybody has had, you know, that journalist didn’t get the quote quite right? Yeah, you are taking over simplification exactly. If the press often has to do to make something interesting to readers, you know, put in a headline. Yeah, yeah, and the promoter should also think about, like, segmenting looking if they could do, like, a more targeted in a way, like, if they know specifically that they’re going to try to communicate. Teo, i think they’ll be the key as well. And you get to know your trusted data promoters, right? You know, the journalists or the bloggers are the advocates who you trust, who you align with the messaging around. So identifying those folks or maybe you don’t know them and you do a little research and you find out who you are, where, wes, you need to know within your sector who the influencers are. Absolutely yeah, i get a little bit of research. Goes a long way. Yeah. Back-up how do you feel about the standard press release? Since we’re talking about the audience of promoters, we’ll be sending it to either of you have, ah, opinion on press releases. Are they outdated there? Some school of thought that press release is dead. But it’s it’s still being used is using it. You’re still using journalists say they ignore them. Yeah, andi, and honestly goes back to relationship building, you know, like in communications, that our primary key is build relationships with with journalists. So when our press release passes through their deaths, they’d be able to, like sick. Oh, let me take a look at this and then dig deeper into the story for us. Just a little more let’s. Talk about building a relationship with a journalist before you want them. Tio, take some action for you to write about you in to quote you on that day’s breaking news. Yeah. How do we build that relationship when we don’t have a need? But, you know, we want to be in front of the person. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like i just it’s a good old fashioned relation building, you know, you have called them, reach out them email and called, you know, like you have no agenda, but i mean, this marketplace exactly you often cover way. Have coffee, exactly. What a concept. I mean, like, i’m also part of communications network conference, just another communications based non-profit unconference and a lot of journalists attend that and it’s a great opportunity, this plate, this form and ten is a another great form to meet people like i would add to that you need to be you need to understand that audience and you need to be curious about they have their own set of requirements that they’re trying to meet. They’ve got an editorial calendar there. Boss has told them what topics to focus on. They’re looking for. They need they need to youto help them connect the dots. So maybe don’t start with the ask, understand what they’ve been working on for the last month. What stories? What topics? And then being able to which, which, by the way, does not mean ask them what have you been writing me out? It means doing your research before you do the outreach, so that you know, so that, you know, you’ve shown that, you know, you show that you’ve taken the time to know what their beat is exactly not just asking you what do you write about lately? Well, it’s in the paper buy-in there dubai it’s on it’s, on the site, in the research, and then and then what are you working on next or what’s? The story you’ve been dying to write that you haven’t had the chance to there’s always a good answer for that and there’s a great conversation starter, especially like imagine putting yourself in their shoes, you know, like someone just roundly wants to have coffee with you, but you have no idea who they are didn’t even do any sort of research like and, you know, you have very, very busy schedule, and you have multiple crowdster headlines like we just need to remember they’re people tio don’t waste their time any more than you would waste. Teo spend the time with a potential donor. Exactly ask them what you’re worth. You’re not gonna ask them things that you want to know already write, write, write what is it about our work that he loves? Well. I’ve been giving to you for fifteen years, i think it’s, probably in my e-giving history, you know, don’t waste people’s time exactly, but but it is important to build relationships with exactly these influences. Okay, i would add to that there channels are largely on social media. If you talk to any journalists, they spend all their time on twitter. So if your twitter gene is not great it’s time it’s time. Learn what hashtags there using. Follow those channels, see who they’re following. See what they’re talking about. A great way to do research on also how to start to engage early on, even if it’s just observing. Okay. Okay. Very good. Okay, so i want you. I want to spend more time on that. I want to check my mike. Want to make sure that everything is good here. Okay, a little insecure about the way i sound. I don’t know. I sound you don’t sound good to me, it’s. Not okay to you, though, right? It’s? A little soft. Like i can hear myself. Really? I could hear myself, teo. You don’t hear me. According to richard it’s. Not as clear. Yeah, in-kind okay. And give. Myself a lot more volume. All right, now, my too loud. Ok, it’s. Good. Allright. Thank you. Time for our last break. Hoexter give quote, i compared a bunch of companies in my search for it hoexter donate company and text to give is the best hands down. They have b been beyond helpful. I can’t imagine anyone doing this better exclamation mark end quote that’s lauren bouchard from global commission partners in clermont, florida. Satisfied? She is with text to give you will be, too for info text npr to four, four, four, nine nine, nine. We’ve got several more minutes, and here they are for map your data to your audiences. Let’s, continue the analysts. Right. Data analyst. Refresh our recollection. David who is this? So this is the data expert this’s. The staffer that’s or consultant? That would help be a read data. Okay, and analyze it for you, like they be in a foundation. Now. I like the way i sound better. Okay? Like they’d be a foundation program, officer. It could be. Is that an example or no, i’m not necessarily. I mean, it could be a learning officer for the foundation meeting the one. Who’s like analyzing all the learning and data sets. Ok, he could be a data manager, you know, within an organization. Where would you? Where would you put a program, officer out of foundation? Someone who’s evaluating your grant proposal. Where? Where would they fit in these audience? Most like, i mean, it’s a little bit of both between the consumer and the actor, to be honest with you, because they’re both a decision maker. So they’re going to read the data and they’re also going to get this just like, okay, this is how my program is going and here’s how i’m going to act upon it. And here’s how i’m gonna adjust my strategy with it. Okay? Yeah. All right. So, let’s, go back to the analyst. How do we, uh, david? You keep going. What do we do with this? How do we talk to the analyst with our data? Go. No. Gosh, just give it all to them. Honestly, rod, they love him. They loved it. They love spreadsheets there. Said if they see a string of numbers, imagine like matrix type of thing. They’re like oh, my gosh, this is habit. Okay, okay. Yeah. It’s that simple? Well, they have, i would add that they usually have the domain a knowledge. Do you think of a policy maker? They haven’t education expert on staff or they may have an expert in international relations it’s that person who knows the domain quite well and feels comfortable digging through the data and furthermore to add to that, too is like if he providing which your goals and what your strategy is for and what they’re trying to provide the otherwise they’d be able to help you got guide you through the breeding process say more about that? Yeah, what shit a little bit, so think of him like, you know, like, if i’m like, if i am se the heather communications in the foundation and i’m like, i’m gonna talk to a data analyst we’re trying to accomplish x can you help me read through this day that what types of data sets can leave first collect and what’s up days says comey can provide so they’ll be able to accomplish that goal, then they were able to narrow down because otherwise they could they could. You stand in any sort of ways, but if you provide some sort of direction or gold. They’re able to, like filter things a little bit better for you. Okay, yeah, very good. Really good. And our last left audiences the researcher buy-in courtney yeah, the researchers are get out of my way and give me this red sheet they the like they may scan through your infographic, your visualization, your query tool. But really, they’re going to build their own query tool. They’re goingto grab that they’re the ones who are in sequel making pivot table like they’re doing all of it. Okay, we have jargon jail on twenty sequel i think people will know, but i’m going to pivot table. Alright, excel itself. Okay, sorry, i’m taking a data analytics class so i’m learning this stuff, so i’m excited to be able to talk about it just dropping, dropping top, but, yeah, i imagine you’ve got an excel table that is so large that you can’t open it x l can’t open it. That is what these researchers are are working in and they’re very comfortable working in and they’re the ones who may even be collecting data as well as analyze sing it for themselves, so think of it like a like a layer deeper than unless they got analysts who may rely also some visualizations. And of course, like a deep amount of pressure. But these guys are like they’re just like neck or forehead, deep of like numbers and data, and they want to do everything themselves. Yeah, yeah. So one one important thing here we have worked on a number of data projects and for non-profits or foundations any group who wants to attract many of these audiences, the keeping with researchers is you have, like, the get data page or sometimes we’ll put it in the footer and it’s, like, just download the excel spreadsheet because i keep saying it, but you got to get out of their way. Just give them what they want, okay? Okay. We have, like, another minute and a half or so do you have tools? And, uh, in your description, you mentioned choosing the right data tools. Any tools we can introduce briefly that you like, i mean, to be honest and this is like, tio, you get off being out of keeping it will be really hash tag riel here, please place if you’re old website have google and alex installed. I mean, you’d be surprised how many webs are out there and smashing non-profits believe that twenty nine, twenty nine percent of them are using do or not. Okay, okay did not have google and licks and police bare minimum do that and they said, like have i think the fun? Nothing is like have goals, you know, before it was like before you venture into the day the world? Yeah, there is there’s a great study that every action did called the state of non-profit data. And you can it’s from twenty sixteen. But it’s a great read a page i recommended. Okay, we’re gonna leave it with we’ll leave it there without recommendation. All right, all right. They’re courtney clarke, managing director of user experience at forum one. And david mask arena digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. Courtney and david. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure. This interview along with all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you for being with non-profit radios coverage of eighteen ntc next week the buy-in bitches getting buy-in from your leadership. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing toe online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Bradunas cps dot com by tello’s, credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Durney dahna slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine a. Creative producers. Claire meyerhoff, sam leave lorts is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein. You need me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Dahna good. You’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sumpter, potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio, leo dot n y c geever. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? 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Nonprofit Radio for August 24, 2018: Your Website Redesign & Overmarketing

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Oh, hi, hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into a habit ood if you told me the dull idea that you missed today’s, show your website redesign it’s your step by step guide to a web site makeover let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the non-profit technology conference is orin levine with international centre for journalists. Lisa gets off with gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measure and over marketing it drives amy sample ward bananas let’s talk through her issues she’s, a social media contributor and the ceo of n ten non-profit technology network i told you to, i’m wagging my finger, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p well, you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weather cps dot com bye tello’s durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s on by text to give amglobal donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine here is your website, redesigned from non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re hosted by the non-profit technology network, coming to you from new orleans in the convention center. This interview, like all our eighteen ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits, i guess now are orin levine, lisa gets off and emily patterson, or in his director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa is founder and creative director at gizmo creative factory, and emily patterson is founder. Be measured that’s b e like the insect welcome buy-in. Your seminar topic is gourmet taste on a pizza budget. Tackling a website, we design for small non-profits, and i noticed that in your session description, use the word small three times. That’s perfect for non-profit radio because our twelve thousand listeners are in small and midsize non-profits. So i don’t have to admonish you or remind you even taylor, your comments too small and midsize or no, i don’t, because it’s, you’re right, it’s in your dna, it’s in the dna of your workshop topic, anyway, get carried away. Personal. Okay. What what are the challenges? Let’s, start down there with emily on the far end? What are the challenges with website redesign? Hyre? Definitely, i compare website redesigns, teo doing laundry, at least at my house. Okay, that it’s something where it feels like you put all this work into it, and then when you’re done well, there’s a whole new basket of laundry, and you need to start all over again. Yes, it’s, a project that it could take over here and then it’s. You know, another year passes by and it’s, time to start redesigning your website all over again, because technology and trends change so frequently, something you have constantly have to keep up with. What do you part of what you described way? Have you done your workshop yet, or it’s coming? No it’s tomorrow at one thirty and that’s a preparation for you? Okay, she’s like a batting range, putting, putting green. I don’t know too much. I don’t be doing sports analogies that that was a mistake i don’t anything about. I don’t know anything about either of those sports, football or tennis, so okay, what do you need? What do you need to have in place? Could we start with you? Lisa, can you could you adjust that one? What do you need to let in place? But think about before you embark on hiring someone to do it or doing it in house? What do you need to think about? You really have to think about weirder site is now and if it’s working for you and if you comptel, if it’s working for you, since we generally have analytics, but also are you getting the results that you want out of it? Are your constituents getting what they need out of it all of that kind of thing? And then it’s just improving upon what you have if its content or design usability, all of those things, okay? Or you want to add wear at the pre stage now, exactly. And this is in some ways where the small comes in, because one of things your back of your mind is, is what resource is do you have realistically to approach the project, which will probably be less resource is than you would love to have? Especially if you know you’re looking at other websites and say, oh, i’d love to have a website like name your large corporation here and because you’re not small non-profit you can’t. And in addition to the questions, lisa was passing one of the question, in fact, you need to ask is, you know, why do i have a website at all? You know, it’s really gets down to what am i doing? I’m murcott what’s the purpose why do i want people to visit me in the web but who’s coming to visit? What do i want them to do when they get there? And by being really careful about asking those questions that helps you match what you could do there to the limited budget you’re going toe? How do you overcome this stick of the orange? How do you overcome not knowing what could do? It is not your site is not doing it now, but it could, but but you don’t know. What it could do because you’re not already exploiting that. How do you feel that gap, that knowledge gap? Well, it’s ah, sort of a balance between what what it’s already doing, what it could do and what you wanted to do. And a lot of what we talked about in our own organization was trying to distill down of all of our laundry list or went backto the laundry analogy, a laundry list, emily’s basket wish list of all the things you wanted to do or could do or might do an ideal world. It’s really important to try to focus down on a few very, very critical things that you want the website to do. Focus your efforts there that both helps focus the minds of the people who are responsible for the website and then focusing your budget on a realistic set of goals you can achieve. So you might brainstorm and then and then and then focus exactly two realities. Okay, okay. See about something else you pledged to cover in your workshop. Hold your feet to the fire. Think about who to hire. Whether you need is who wants to take this one first? Whether. Whether you need expertise, we don’t necessarily have to go in line. One, two, three, three, two, one, which i don’t i don’t like that, but we can now for now anyway. There’s soup for now, but i’ll bring it up if we keep up with us whether whether you should a lot of small orcs probably do need help, right, then we’re gonna need some technical help. This website project definitely on dh speaking as a designer and developer, generally i come in when they don’t have those resource is on staff, or if those people are overwhelmed and speaking to lauren’s point, sometimes you can brainstorm with those people and find out exactly new things that you may not be aware of ways that you can integrate databases better, etcetera on improving communication. So, you know, so much of it is just what you’re re sources are and what you’re willing to put forth. So you’re often in the role of having tio make the expectations fit the budget. Yes, we can’t do that yet. I know you would love to, but if you want to do these other things that you said were playing top three priorities. And we can’t do this. You can’t have six priorities. Yeah, i’m a big believer in phase development, so if you could do it in six months, then we’ll do it in six months when it’s more feasible. Okay, how do you, uh, how do you message that reduction down, too of reality when it when you’re talking to the ceo executive director? Oh, gosh, i mean, i basically put it the exact same way that we can do this in six months. We can still make it happen with the budget that you have, but if you want to put more towards that, then of course, we could make plenty of things happening now, so okay, so bring it down. Arika money. Yes. Way to spread it out. You can have it, but it’s gonna take longer. Okay? In fact, one of the things we talked about in the session is sort of tricks. I learned i was emily start going out orders don’t get going out at one point, i want i want to head over to emily because she’s really the expert on how to manage to ceo seo, i’d better let her speak for that. I’m not going sequence. I don’t want you to continue, okay? My my one question is that one of the now now a great host, it’s time for a break, pursuing their newest paper is pursuing e-giving outlook it’s a roundup of all the fund-raising data that you need, they took the latest fund-raising reports boiled them down to the essentials into a concise content paper, plus there’s a video archive of the weapon, or that they did around this whole subject. It’s, an ensemble piece, paper and webinar both on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now, back to your website redesign say something talk emily yeah, it was like they had a message to you, ceo message manage expectations about the top level uh, so i think one of the things that people don’t realize, especially at the top level around website redesigns is just yeah, how much, how much work and how much? And thus time and money is involved, and i think having teo yeah, message and set expectations around that is a big challenge buy-in vices that i’ve worked and now in a zoo independent consultant, my point of contact is typically, you know, you’re marketing director or your communications person who have, who handles all of communications and all of fund-raising so kind of a mid level person and being able to work with them to help them set expectations with there with their boss around the web website, because i think a lot of a lot of executive directors, you know, they’re a little bit detached from the project and, you know, they’re looking online, and they’re seeing all of this awesome stuff that other organizations or, you know, even for-profit companies are able to dio and they don’t realize, you know how much time and money needs to go into that. I’m going to pick up on on emily’s point, that becoming the position of being the non-profit that’s working with cos, you know, we were designing the web site, and one of the things we try to make sure of is we knew internally in our own organization who who is responsible to make the final decision so that, you know, family’s talking the communications director, she needs to know that when the communications director says we’re not going to do this, then hearst boss is not going to come down two weeks later and say, well, actually, we are let’s keep that anyway, because that’s, how you lied to basically blowing your budget and changing your plans. So it’s, very important as an organization is a nonprofit taking on the project to be clear in advance. Who are the decision makers? Who are the real stakeholders, who is going to make the decisions and who needs to stay out of the way? That’s perfect. So who should be let’s? Go to you family? Who should be part of this design team? I mean, i think having one clear a person who is ultimately one person is in charge. Yes, having been in the position where three people are making the decision, you know that doesn’t really work. So ultimately one person has to have the final say. So we are we are not doing this, but i think lots of people should be involved and be able to have their input because you will otherwise get in this situation. Where oranges years, months later i don’t know. How’d we get this? Yes or no? You roll that definitely derail your project. If all of a sudden you had someone pop up and say hey, what happened? Teo x y z i thought we were doing this, and then as a consultant to be the person who says, oh, sorry, that’s not in the budget, i think it’s so we need to think through in the beginning stages, who are the stakeholders? So but with the web, but at our website affects everybody. Lisa, how do we decide whose we can’t have too many people in the process? I already said that how do we decide who should be part of this process and who should be sidelined? A big part of that for me is design theory. Tio it’s basically starting off with talking to all of the people who are going to be using the site. So if it’s one person from the board, one person from the staff, one actual end user, et cetera, and they don’t necessarily have to be people who are involved in the decision making part of it. But fighting out how they actually use the site and how they would like to use the site and how it all fits into the overall organization makes a huge difference in the end result and how successful it is, okay or anything you want to add to this? Yeah. And that’s another reason why inside the organisation it helps to have somebody you can sort of manage some of those relationships internally in some ways be a bridge between the organization and the external party. I in some ways fulfill that role in my organization. I’m not responsible for the site, partially because i have experiences a web product manager, i’m ableto some ways mediate, i suppose, between some of the internal forces intentions and our external external vendors, and that makes life easier for them because they have fewer people to talk to, and we’re clear decision making it makes life easier for us and that we’re able to resolve some of our issues ideally before we start having to pay for it’s going to more detail on this, managing the contractors or contractor whatever that is doing the process. Emily, you’ve got something you want. I was going to say that i think having your communications director or someone at that level lead the project is a good call because they’re in a role where they khun both understand more closely, like the technical side of what we’ll need to go into this because they’re close enough. To the project, where they might be in a role where they’re updating the website. But then there also. Removed a little bit from it and more into the business side of things where they can understand the bigger picture and the business decisions and the important role that stakeholders play. Where i think if you put the website in the i t department and have that management come from that side, they might spend more time kind of focused on how is everything working exactly and ignore the business side of war on the into the code? Okay, okay, let’s, let’s talk more about managing the contract with doing this project for us out. How do you? How do you like to be managed? I don’t like to be managed, but well, essentially the biggest thing is always communication on both ends of it and setting expectations. Some people love to talk only via email, some are i need to get on the phone with you to make you understand this and it’s an inter generational thing, it’s just it’s. Everybody certainly has different feelings on that bye, setting up expectations of how often we’re going to talk, how we’re going to talk, how we’re going to be managing all of these assets, all of these things that makes things so much easier down the line, and you don’t have developers who disappear or gaps in knowledge where well, we have no idea where we’re hosted right now, which is a huge deal, because so many people don’t really know all their passwords and everything. So let’s, let’s move to something else that you were are going to cover tomorrow. Use of data, you said data tio dr better flew and better engagement. Who’s the everybody plays family, right? Emily, you’re got two thumbs pointing to you. Yes. Yeah. That’s. The data portion of it is really my specialty. Okay, so we’re going to talk a little bit about what the stakeholder they wrote to me in for the stakeholder section because i had had this other presentation that oren saw where it was about using data to kind of manage people’s personalities, but definitely needed to manage personnel. That was that was different. There was somewhere else. Yeah. Is that another? Another kind of interested? Okay, about how you can take the day that you collect and then use it. Tio appears the different sort of questions and issues that pop with your different stakeholders, but definitely before you embark on your redesigned some suggestions about, you know what sorts of data people should look at, a lot of it depends on what sorts of issues pop up with your various people who are involved. I really kind of feel like there’s kind of three basic types of issues that it will happen, you know, there’s the sort of person who doesn’t you might have it from your executive director or from another person, your organization, they don’t necessarily want to spend any money, so helping to make the case that we need to make this investment and we need to invest in better technology, you can use your your google analytics user testing surveys a variety of different things to get a good picture of what’s going on with your audience because who’s using your website is not necessarily reflecting the needs of the person using your website isn’t reflecting. You know the needs of the people in your audience, they’re not in your office, they’re not the same. Okay, what else about data? I’m so you also get the person who is has all the fun ideas, maybe, you know, reads a lot of things. Online about the latest trends, and we need to have this widget and that widget and helping them get a good perspective on, you know, what’s really going on with our users where we really having problems with our site right now that definitely need to be fixed in the in the redesign, you can use google analytics things like back-up they have a funnel feature to see you. Nowhere in your process is people you’re losing people dropping out, leaving your side, and then i love surveys and user testing as a way to hear from riel people how frustrating it is for them to use certain functions on your website. So who would you send those surveys to? Is that that cut across all your constituents metoo donors, board members, people who are engaged, engaged with your programs, receiving your service is all those people get survey like that? It depends. I’ve done ones on the website, which i think are nice. Google has ah, very low cost pop up sort of survey you may have seen them before that you can answer a couple questions, and then there’s typically kind of an open end response, which is a great source for people’s france. Ok, things are kind of questions. Do we ask? You can certainly ask about user rolls if you want. If it’s important for you and your your website to understand who’s used what constituency you would word it this way, but what constituency they fit into. We’re delivering services, etcetera. Okay. What? What else do you want to find out? That’s? Fine, but you could totally keep it super simple. And just as something like, you know, what brings you to the site today? Are you satisfied with your experience? If not, you know what recommendations do you have for us? Those three questions? I think we’ll get you a good picture of what’s going on. I mean, i’ve had guests on who say the best survey is, like, five fewer questions. Oh, yeah, definitely. Okay, so short is not problematic. It all it’s preferred? Yeah, especially if you you know, you’re kind of you’re popping up at them. They’re coming to your sight because they’re trying to do something else. So you want to keep the survey short because you’re kind of interrupting their experience? What else can wait? Talk about around this? You’re going, you’re going to feel ninety minutes tomorrow. Well, let me add another more point about data again. I’m coming at this from persuaded emily. So i thought the data when emily stop, okay or you can talk about data. Whenever we took a breath, i thought that was the end of the day that i could talk for days about data e talking about okay, just the one small point i wanted to make again back to managing expectations, it’s away to also manage expectations your stakeholders had about people who are wedded to. We’ve always had this section on the website i love this information is valuable and it’s useful to be able to go to analytic state and say twenty, people visited this page in the last five years. We don’t need it. Okay? Spell, myth it’s also a legacy pages that people are tied to strongly, but nobody else cares it’s also testing out processes to like, how long does it take someone to actually make a donation or to find the volunteer form or something like that? Does it take to long for them to get there and they get tired of it? And they just leave, or does the executive director have an idea that they love this particular feature, but no one’s clicking on it or they wantto accident actually everyone’s clicking on it. And we don’t know that unless we actually get true user data, so it helps it. A lot of scenarios are based in reality. You know, the numbers no like yeah. All right. Uh, okay, so we still have you just took it five or six minutes together. What else can we talk about on this topic website? Redesigned. You promised a step by step guide. We missed any step. Well, there’s, plenty of stuff. Cemetery. Alright, so name some names, something we haven’t talked about it content auditing of your current site. So actually, i’m going to cut you off there, like three or four sessions ago, we talked about content, name another one and another step way of linking on it that we haven’t talked a lot of sessions, police about post launch care and the whole yeah, because to me kind of the laundry analogy to but to me, a website is a living, breathing thing. And just because you’re done with it, because it launched does not mean that it is done. You need to keep feeding that for google to pay attention to and for your users to pay attention to. You also need to be aware of the ongoing costs of maintaining the site and keeping it secure. Ilsen and already you have a laundry. Now you wanna bring laundry and maybe a lot of what you want. I’m thinking more about sort of laundry all of a sudden, you know, chris created out of no where in your hamper, because what happens is part of the consequence. If you’ve been really successful, i think in managing expectations and limiting the scope of your redesign and coming up with a very clean site, that means there are going to be items that fell off the must have list that are now on the might have list or nice to have list, but after launch that’s an opportunity to sort of incrementally add in some of the things you may have wanted to do earlier as budget becomes available. That’s part of what lisa was saying about it’s, an ongoing project not only maintenance but ongoing improvement i remember, but i used to work at a large non-profit before people with sort of a background in your television program, you would say that keep iooking cleanse the website done, and i think least i mentioned at the beginning of our talk it’s never done that’s an ongoing lisa, do you see? Oh, our emily also commonalities around things that people want but don’t really need or, you know, durney generalities about things that they say is a top priority, but really it’s, not any any generalizations you could make around that. How about home paint sliders? I was just thinking that way, but everybody loves big sliders, right? No one clicks on them. They really don’t know. They don’t stop it to go back. So many guys attract many home page sliders. Yes, they get teo slide too, i think. Yeah, they and then they go to what they really want. Okay, i think people, maybe this is at least as different impressions. But i think there’s just too much emphasis and too many politics around the home page and what goes on on the home page because most sites people are coming in sideways, you get a lot of people coming in. From search, especially if your sight is well designed and has, you know, all the ceo best practices. People will come in to your bog post or to your content pages, and they’ll never see your home page. And so in projects i’ve been involved with, the home page gets very political and can stall things. Okay, that’s, old thinking that everybody’s coming directly to our our main, our main domain. And everybody wants a piece of it. Yes, there’s a lot of fighting about. Okay, so you are generalizing about okay, george, as i was going to bring this up before, but yeah. There’s a lot of oh, you know, my department needs to go on the home page. This is very important. Very important to this organization. All right, all right. What else could we were going to flush out? A little bit more? Got another couple minutes left. What one thing is, i was going to advise i came up with a bunch of sort of tips and tricks. If you’re inside the organizations that have ways too, to keep your stakeholders, i was going to use the word under control. But that’s a bit of a loaded term, but back to the prioritization, you know, prioritization is really critical, you know, making those choices about what you want to do and there’s been lots of cases in several projects i’ve worked on when you know your stakeholders might have a long list of things they want to do. And as somebody who’s running a project it’s really important to learn how to say pick one really focuses the mind i sway for, you’re not going to need that. That sort of thing to really help helps sort of focus the issue. Everybody gets one right, you could. You could name as many as you like, but you’re gonna get one priority. Okay, okay, yeah buy-in talking to clients. I used to say to people, you know, we can do this, you know, or we could do this and that response, wass, what can we do both. So i have learned to rephrase it and say, here are three options, pick one, okay. We asked what you, uh so what do you love about the work that you do? You know, organizations i work within cos they’re so wide ranging that it always amazes me what you can learn, what you can pick up and all of the commonalities of them too, you know, there there’s so many things that they’re all trying to get across, even if they’re a tiny little organization. So it’s, um, and making a difference with it with the actual and product from what they can about you are what you love about this work. I think what’s really interesting about the work is one year’s going setting off on a website redesign you think you’re doing a technology project, and it almost inevitably ends up being a management project because i think we’ve alluded to it before that the company’s your organization’s website is really related to how it’s organised how the organization works and you end up sometimes having more conversations about how the organization works and how we’re running on what our strategies then, about technology, about the actual some introspection. Okay, emily, i’m gonna give you ten or fifteen seconds. What do you like? What you love about this work your work about the work that i d’oh. I mean, i like that it’s always changing. I specialize in data stuff and it’s a field that’s constantly evolving. So i like that aspect of being able teo, keep up on it and always be just like our websites. Yeah, conley evolving. Always changing. Never finished. All right, they’re orin levine, director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa lisa it’s. A guess off. Yeah. Sounder and creative. Director of gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measured. Thanks so much for being with us. I think this interview like all of them here it eighteen ntc sponsored by network for good, easy to use dorner management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with non-profit video coverage of the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference. We need to take a break. Wagner. Cps for pete’s sake, talk to you. Eat huge tomb. You know the man. You heard him on our four hundred show. Did he sound high pressure to you? Of course not. He sounded like the gentleman that he is gentlemanly and professional. Check out the farm of course. Got to do your due diligence. Do your research weinger cps dot com then pick up the phone. Talk to you, wagner, cpas dot com then moved to real life now tony steak too it’s finger wagging time. I want you to plan ahead so that you make time don’t just look for it try to find it. You make time for yourself yourself over labor day weekend time alone, its restorative you heard last week steve rio talk about thie the benefits throughout your day of of mindfulness and presence, and even maybe ah meditation for a couple of minutes. I mean, they do virtual meditations of bright webb, he said, every day for five minutes, take time for yourself. Make time for yourself over labor day weekend, even if even if part of it is a nap. It’s restorative, you’re in e-giving profession you give you give, you have to be a little selfish and take make that time for yourself wagging my finger and there’s a little bit more on that in the video at tony martignetti dot com what a pleasure to have amy sample ward back. She is our social media contributor. Ceo of intend the non-profit technology network her most recent court third book, social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample board, dot or ge and at amy rs ward. Welcome back, amy. I think having me back, it’s always a pleasure. You’re always you’re always welcome back. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Should be a surprise to you. We always work well, i hope that you’ll let me know if i get cut from the roster will stop taking your calls. Know that we’ll have to wait on the phone. I’ll call in with a different say. I have a question to make up a different name. All right. Um, we’re talking about over marketing over marketing. This is a, uh, a bothersome thing for you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, i think it’s probably bothersome to everyone. That’s. Why it’s not successful? Yeah, it’s. In the long run, it annoys people and they turn off. Okay, i think that’s true. You know, maybe we’ll look att cem symptoms of over marketing so that you can do some self assessment. I think it’s it’s, probably one of these things is much easier to see in other people which may be coming totally right. I think it’s definitely hard to self diagnose your organization as an over marketer and instead very easy to look at other communications, other websites, what have you and feel like? Oh my gosh. You know and just to be clear, when i say over market and maybe this is a point of clarification between the two of us, i am curious how you define it. But for me, over marketing is when you market everything equally instead of choosing as an organization what your priorities are. Okay, so it seems very scattershot the marketing then from that those kinds of organizations very scattershot, everything is equally urgent. Everything is equal, equally impactful. Everything is, you know equally the thing that you want people to do right, then yeah. Okay, interesting might might my sense of it is it’s it’s i’m more looking at the frequency you know, if i get too many emails too many if i see your twitter you know, blowing up my twitter stream you know, i see i see too much from you it’s it’s too much it well in however, you define the time but e i’m seeing too much, um, well, and i think that that frequency piece could is, you know, one of the ways that over marketing manifest, because you could also say that it, um, you know, separate from frequency, it could just be type it could be that you are just like your web site is, you can’t even navigate it because every single thing has to have its own space on your home page that’s the call to action and whatever, you know, there’s different ways that it might manifest, but frequency certainly is a big one. Ok? And christie’s bleed over. I mean, you know, if your if your website has everything is an equally high priority, then that’s the trouble you were, you know, that’s, the trouble that you’re that bothers you the most is that every everything is urgent going on and everything has a page, every page is called action. You know, his first came to me as an idea because someone sent me an email with i printed it. It’s literally the the email signature is a half a page and i did not printed in eighteen point five i put it in twelve point fund. A very reasonable size. I’m this person’s email signature is a half takes up a half a page, right? I’m sure that the emails they’re sending two people are, you know, a very reasonable, like hi, tony, and then a couple sentences and thanks so much. And yet their signature is three times that. Yeah, yeah. Or more. It’s, you know, there’s itt’s. Well, i gave it away. It’s a he you know, it’s it’s it’s filled up with i mean there’s like zoho linked in you are el there’s a well there’s there’s web sites. There’s a you are elves, but then they’re not linked. And then separately there’s www the length number one w w was like number two and number three and there’s the mailing address and there’s. Ah, fax number off a twenty eighteen a fax number on then there’s and then there’s some congratulate, you know, self promotion stuff about anniversaries. How long he’s been in different lines of business and it’s it’s a half a page. So that’s what? Put this on my radar? You know, i guess i’ve subconsciously i’ve probably been thinking noticed it certainly, but tio got into my consciousness and i asked you about it and you said, whoa drives me crazy. So so here we are here we are. I’m just commiserating in the things that drives, but it’s for a good purpose, we’re helping where i’m not complained, my larry david, i’m not i’m not complaining, i’m helping, but, you know, what’s so interesting to me about that, like, the starting place where this conversation is that so many organizations, i don’t think, ever think about the signature line of there down both from the perspective that that, uh, i mean, that’s, you know, hundreds if you count all of your different staff, hundreds of messages a day to community members that could be reinforcing your organization’s brand or voice or mission having a standard, you know, signature block for everyone in your staff that, you know, great, everybody has the right information there, we probably don’t need to list our fax machine, you know, for all of those things because i see so many times where you know, one person, one organization writes at one way another person you can’t they don’t have a signature block, all you see is like, thanks, amy and me, but who? Are you, you know, co-branded spectrum that’s a missed place for just reinforcing the brand of the organization, but so few organizations know that you’re their signature block is kind of a passive called toe action space. Um, and at intend, we test that and we have a we use our goal for non-profits account, and that allows us if anyone listening uses the google suite for your organizations, you have, you know, females, you know, you could just administer as an organization what everyone’s you could add, like a call to action at the bottom of of the signature, and you don’t have to worry that some staff forgot to put it in, like, you could just administer that, and it is immediately in place for all of your emails, and we change that regularly, but we also track that and, you know, there are people that click on that signature link where we’re promoting that and you see and actually click through and register. So it is a place to call people to action. It is not necessarily a place to successfully call them toe action with eighteen different things that you’re saying, you know, it needs to just be one and have it be something that’s actually relevant to why you’re emailing people vs maybe, you know, links all of these different awards and promotions. You actually test different signatures. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Eminently doable. Eminently testable. You know us, we test everything. Okay. That’s, you technology network? Yes. Bonem all right. So let’s, let’s encourage some self assessment. We just have about a minute or so before before taking the first break. Um, i thought of i thought of some symptoms that you might that that that maybe hitting you in the face if you’re if your engagement numbers are declining, if you’re if you’re of actual follower numbers or connections, if that’s, you know, if people are dropping off that way, so i thought of either one of those, you know, people might still be following you, but they’re not engaging that’s, that’s bad or they might just stop following you or being connected. No thing can in fact, tonight, adam a nuance to those numbers. Certainly it’s healthy to have people stop following you on twitter or toe unsubscribes miree male because it means people are reading it and it no longer, you know the priority in their life, it’s not the topic that they care about it’s. Fine, you don’t need to feel bad of someone on subscribe to the newsletter but that’s the point you’re making tony is that if you are getting in ten people unsubscribes sections one new person subscribing then your ratio is a little off you want tohave, you know more people continuing to subscribe. Then you have a fall back off. Thank you for refining my point. Thank you. I mean, i mean that generally we gotta take a break. Take a break. Tell us enough with the talis moughniyah. Lt’s you’ve heard them. You’ve heard them from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and, of course, those charities air getting that revenue each month that long tail you’ve heard the talis moughniyah, lt’s from companies who are using tello’s for credit card processing. I bet you could use more revenue. Tell us long stream of revenue. You know how this works? You refer cos they take on tell owes you the non-profit get fifty percent of the revenue from those fees. Watch the video at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now. Back to amy sample board. Thank you for that indulgence. Yes. All right. So, indeed, big numbers, you know, that’s bad and unsustainable. You know, you’ve got your tenant followers a day and one new follower, your that’s that’s, not sustainable. Um, let’s. See, um, if you i thought you know how about reading your own stuff reading your own to spend a little time romping through your own, you know, your own twitter stream your own instagram, facebook, these things boring you your own website, have you read? Have you read the last a couple of weeks of content on your website? A few if you have something that’s regularly updated that that often does it bore you? I would say that’s a bad somebody i think what’s interesting about that suggestion and that so many people we’ll overlook is that we, of course i have read all of it listed it, right? So the idea that we would go back and look at it feels like some time wasted because, of course we wrote those tweets. Are we, you know, posted those pictures? Never, but the value in what you’re suggesting is not look at any of those. Single post it’s look your feed without looking at your whole timeline or whatever, right? Like, just look at for twitter, profile and all the content in order that’s been posted or your instagram profile or your website, because that’s where you can really start to see from your followers perspective or your community’s perspective. Whoa, you know, this is this is what it felt like, or this is what it sounded like. I think that’s something we don’t do often enough it’s organizations because we don’t feel like we need to, because we’ve already reviewed all that content when we posted it individually. Yeah, we wrote it ourselves see, this is this is why you’re an author, co author of two books, and i’ve never written a book because you you put a finer point on it. No, i’m the shallow guy, i got this idea and then you refine it, give it depth and meaning and eso like on the comic book writer, and you’re the you’re the writer of books that actually get published by, you know, by well known publishing companies. Yeah, but i haven’t even done one of those yet. Yeah, ok. Er and you just and i’ve been thinking about it, and you just heard it. And you you put you put, you add depth and, uh, greater meaning to it. So thank you. What a team. You know, good teamwork. Yeah, work. If i didn’t have this show, you could because, you know, i don’t think you need me to get started, but i need you to add the depth and the color enough beating myself up. Okay. Um, no. I’m having fun doing it. So what are you? Nobody. Nobody listens to this show anyway, so nobody here’s the nobody here is the self loathing. Oh, that’s not true. Thousands of people listening. Yes. Don’t remind everybody said you have more in your list in this moment. Don’t remind me more of my list more my list. What of these of these things? I have more. I have things on my list. I can add, um, i have one more staff complaints if the staff, if the staff is feeling that their content is you know, however, they describe stale o r, you know, repetitive. You want to pay a lot of attention to that because they’re the ones producing the content. So if staff or if you’re hearing from staff, i think that’s a bad sign, what do you what do you have totally eye? You know, now i feel obligated to add depth and color all of your suggestions, but the piece that i would add there is i feel like it’s, not just staff saying that it’s repetitive, but the conversations that you might over here amongst your staff that are kind of like a warning sign warning flag that you’re maybe doing over marketing is when people are saying, you know, i’m marketing this in someone else’s say, no, the postcards you know, went out yesterday for this someone else, eh? Zoho on twitter were saying that you have people, you know, you’re cross team isn’t talking about the same thing, then you’re probably doing, you know, equal parts promotion of five different things at once and that just naturally not going to be a successful your community members can’t take in five different request to do something that are different and actually do them all for you. Very bad sign if there’s conflicting messages across your across your team, i thought it was this i thought this was the priority, right? Okay, what else? What else do you have on your symptom symptom list? Well, i don’t have as many symptoms. I have a list that’s, more like things that you khun d’oh. Okay, um, yeah, okay, we could switch over there. I’m game for some guests. I would say you’re not a baby, we can talk about a few things underneath is i really liked the idea for organizations, you know, of course, we all know that we should have, like, a content calendar and marketing plan and all of these things. But the reality is i’m going toe just operate within reality that we don’t have those things or we have them and they’re not updated or or or whatever. So instead of saying, oh, just go finish off that editorial calendar that you should have instead of that recommendation, i’d say just pick a team. It could be every month it could be based on certain weeks that, you know, we’re leading up to events, whatever. And having a team i think, really helps people across the organization, you know, in whichever team there in know that they can still talk about their team. Or their program or their service. But do it in a way that still aligned and advancing whatever over our james focus organizationally needs to be the priority. So it maybe we can use in ten for an example. Course i could speak to that, so we might say, ok, this month’s needs to be focused on the ntc, but we still have membership campaigns that happened, we still have course promotions that need to happen, you know, where there’s still all this other work, but we don’t need to be saying register for the nbc become a member. Sign up for this course that’s happening next week, you know, apply for this program because that’s not going that’s, where we get into the half a page email signature, you know, someone said saint arthur, steam is auntie si lets people say culwell instead of just talking about membership, i’ll talk about how members engaged at the ntc instead of just talking about, of course, next week, i’ll say this course has a similar topic at the mtc, and this is a way for you to continue your learning. You know, it just gives people more oven umbrella that they can talk about their programs while still staying. Kind of on message. Okay, yeah. I can i can i can toss out one for recommendation, and that is to put yourself on your own lists, make sure that you are seeding yourself so that you’re seeing the feed, the posts, hearing the podcast, whatever it is the same way, same frequency as everybody else. Yeah, and then had a way to do that. It’s not just getting your own organizations emails, because to your point, there are lots of different channels were using in ten does this and i’ve talked to a number of our other organizations who do this, too, whether you use black, which is kind of an internal messaging tool, or you have an internet or whatever tool you’re using for kind of internal content and conversation. Most of those tools there’s probably a way where you can have your organization’s account, your twitter account, instagram show up in there and that way you have essentially, you know, one channel in slack or whatever you used that just is showing all of your tweets, so not only can you see when a tweet has gone out, but what it was about, and then you can very easily scroll through and say oh, my gosh, way! Look at what we have been saying or what we haven’t been saying or whatever on dh you don’t have to say, okay, now everyone on staff has to create a twitter account and go follow the organization and check it every day. You can just pull it into a central system so everyone can see it. I see. Excellent. Okay, okay. She’s, the co author times two. Amazing. All right, let’s, take another break. Okay, let me take a break text to give you’ll get more revenue because text to give makes e-giving easy for your donors. If your donors can send a text message, they could make a donation to u not only simple also affordable and secure the way to get more info and to claim your special listener offer you text npr two, four, four, four, nine nine nine couldn’t be any simpler. Npr. Four, four, four, nine, nine, nine we’ve got about six more minutes for over marketing with amy um, we run really medicine, okay? Please go ahead. So this suggestion is coming from a place where at and ten, we have definitely seen return on the work, but also in recognition that if you’re if you’re organization is suffering from over marketing, you’re already putting in the time to do a bunch of work so let’s just move that work to something else, and that is the idea of promo, okay, it’s, not just for your big annual fundraiser or, you know, once a year event for anything programs for things that are year round, even creating again, you’re already doing this work because you’re already over marketing, so instead of putting it all out as an organization, all the work you did to come up with those tweets or those block post or whatever put them into, you know, a a shared document or a wiki or google doc or whatever, and instead of sharing them on your own feed, share them with community members that can that are interested in that that maybe participate in that program before whatever that they want to be out in the community scene is talking about your work and promoting it and it’s still getting out there. People are still hearing about your programs, but you aren’t saying okay, well, our twitter feed today is going to have to cover all ten of these topics you say today we’re covering this topic, but we know that we’ve supported community members and they have access to these promo kits. Tio help us spread the word excellent using yes using your most dedicated constituents, friends, followers sort of a back channel way of getting them to help you promote board members boardmember could be idea for that, right? Okay, are for sure, all right, i’m going to get one out because i know you’re going to say it, i’m gonna get out first, okay? If you feel you’re over marketing on promoting your own work, share the work of others instead. So the obvious, you know, sharing on facebook, facebook shares, they’re so they’re so rare. Now facebook shares please share other people’s content obviously twitter, the re tweets on twitter or you go or spend that time going out and finding, you know, curating the content of others and sharing that because, you know, it’s relevant to your community. I know you’re going to say that yes, well and i think something to remember to when when you’re thinking about content and mixing it up so that it isn’t just you talking. About the thing that you want people to do over and over, another place where you could look to content in addition to sharing, of course, you know that i’m always going to say, share other people’s work and rise up the community is just as you are doing, too be the one that reminds your community that they can take a break, that they can have fun, that the world is really hard, it feels right now, and so much is going on, and we’re always asking our community to take action to support us, whether it’s fund-raising or advocacy or local actions. But maybe you are also building community and building trust with them by being the voice that says, you know, we hope that you take a saturday off and just be with your family or go to the zoo her, you know, go for a hike and and you aren’t always calling them toe action that you’re also treating them as full people that need to take a break and be healthy too. Yeah, that space space critical. We had steve rio on last week talking a lot about that he’s. Interesting do you know, do you know steve rio, bright webb? I don’t know. And i know i heard he’s, based in vancouver. Andi has twenty five employees. Maybe that includes contractors, but they’re all over north america. Very interesting. Okay. Um, they do. They have. They have virtual meditations. You probably heard me or not. Uh, not not mandatory optional, but they do a forty five minute virtual meditation every day a couple times a week. Sorry. Three times, three times a week? Um, yeah, i think yeah. Mindfulness, you know, presence. Oh, and, you know, there’s there’s research that shows that that that helps you be be more efficient in your in your workday. Um, every sample would really have, like, two minutes left. Um, you have another. You wantto recommend something else. If you feel you’re over marketing, do you have another recommendation? While the other piece that i was going to suggest is kind of the office that and that is just in case there are listeners who are, like, no, our problem is that we never marketed anything we never, you know, actually promote ourselves because it’s all you know, maybe they’re your web site is is just kind of content, because your programs or your round and you don’t feel like you have timely things, so if somehow you are on the opposite end of the conversation and feel like you need more help finding ways teo to market, i would say, just look through whether that’s, your social media accounts, your website, whatever and look for those empty spaces places that i think organizations could really take advantages putting in in their twitter bio or their instagram bio, or whatever that you know, a girl that shows up right there and the short kind of narrative box you have to write something, put what feels more like a timely kind of a call to action or reference a campaign that you’re running or whatever that is, and put a girl in there that doesn’t just go to your home page, same with your email signature. Look for those empty spaces where you can make it feel more timely instead of just the permanent kind of here’s our home page here’s, what we do here is our mission statement she’s amy sample ward she’s the author i’m not you’ll find her at, you’ll find her and amy sample ward. Dot or go! And also you should be following the woman for god’s sake, twitter is so much wisdom coming follow-up for god’s sake that’s the end of it just for pizza. Just follow at amy rs ward. Thank you, amy. Thank you, tony. My pleasure always next week. Maria semple returns with real estate for prospect research. If you missed any part of today’s show i deceit, you find it on tony martignetti dot com. We are sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com by telus credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four nine nine, nine a creative producers clam meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. E-giving cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative network, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c buy-in. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Yeah. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com hyre. You’re listening to talking on turn their network at www. 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Nonprofit Radio for June 15, 2018: Avoid Website Ageism & Grants For Newbies

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Jessica Meister, Matt Dragon & Justin Greeves: Avoid Website Ageism
How do you design your site to meet the needs of those 65 and over? What about testing with seniors, and accessibility requirements for federally-funded nonprofits? Our panel answers it all. They’re Jessica Meister with Oral Health America; Matt Dragon from Charity Navigator; and Justin Greeves at Porter Novelli. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

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Janice Chan & Danielle Faulkner: Grants For Newbies
Janice Chan and Danielle Faulkner cover the basics of researching and submitting grants. They reveal free resources to find out what’s available, share tips on tracking deadlines, help you prepare for online submissions, and more. Janice is with Johns Hopkins Institutions and Danielle is from Baltimore Community Foundation. (Also recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into foley dupe aqua if you questioned why you shouldn’t miss today’s show, avoid website ageism how do you design your site to meet the needs of those sixty five and over? What about testing with seniors and accessibility requirements for federally funded non-profits our panel answers at all. They’re jessica meister with orel health america, matt dragon from charity navigator and justin grieves at porter novelli that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference also grants for newbies. Janice chan and daniel faulkner covered the basics of researching and submitting grants they reveal free resource is to find out what’s available. Share tips on tracking deadlines help you prepare for online submissions and mohr. Janice is with johns hopkins institutions, and danielle is from baltimore community foundation that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference. I’m tony steak, too thank you. Responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps. Dot com and by tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tello’s here is a void website ageism welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference. We’re coming to you from new orleans at the convention center all our ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits this conversation is with jessica meister, matt dragon and justin grieves. Jessica is the web user experience specialist at orel help america. Matt is director of engineering at charity navigator and justin greaves is senior vice president of research. Porter novelli jessica justin welcome, thank you for having welcome to non-profit radio your workshop topic is i’m not the dinosaur. You’re the dinosaur. How your website should keep pace with america’s aging population okay, let’s, start down the end there. Justin, who thinks i look like john mcenroe? He he spilled performance that happen. But i remind you of john macro at least at least happy. Yeah, right now. Not the tennis racket slamming john macaron? Not yet. I haven’t gotten there yet. Yeah, yeah. Don’t give me cause, okay? What what’s the issue here, justin way, talking about websites that are built specifically for senior population, like sixty five it over or accessibility of all websites for the for the elder population? Yeah, yeah, i think i think one or the other, but we’re taking a step back from that and looking at everybody and really looking good. How in my part of the presentation, how people are accessing information generally in society and looking at that websites are a part of that news is a part of that social media is a part of that radio shows are a part of that, right? So seeing how those different audiences by age or by other characteristics are doing things online, are getting information. So we really took a broad view about toe understand that, and there are a couple of interesting trends that we found in our research. Porter novelli we do an ongoing program called styles, which is abroad be of americans lifestyle okay, we’ll get into the research. Remind me if i don’t get teo. I don’t know about research company. Okay, sametz what what’s your sense of this. How do you want to open up the topic sure. So charity navigator biggest user percentages is sixty five and over. And if you lump in fifty five and over it’s really a majority nineties, we in ninety percent, ninety percent, probably around eighty percent. Ok, seventy five percent. So we we have a lot of those users. As i covered in the presentation. Over seventy five percent of our donors to us are seventy five are fifty five and over. So that that’s something that we’re constantly considering in our website design communicating with our users and our donors. Okay, jessica, you’re our user experience specialist. And what what? How do you want to open this topic for the elder population? Eso my belief is that technology should be for everybody, and it shouldn’t be limited to just young people, um and that’s on all of us to create technology and websites and designs that air usable by every single person. I think. It’s a negative stereotype that older adults seniors above the age of sixty five don’t use technology and it’s absolutely not true. Both justin and i have found plenty of research. That is completely metoo contrary. Okay, thank you for that. All right, not. Now that i’m sixty five, i’m approaching now, but, uh, i’m not even in the face, you know? I am in the fifty five over. Yeah, i am in that one, okay, i did remember what i want to talk to you about the research, so i want i do want to start with in terms of how thie older population is using data differently using is using technology differently. Yeah, please, just beyond, i think justcause point it’s ah it’s a myth and it’s a long held belief that older people are behind in technology and don’t use things but what we found in our styles, research that i mentioned before is half of people in the silent generation that’s, age seventy two and above have a smartphone mobile device that they’re using and half half seventy two and over half of our subs on dh in boomers, which you’re you’re, you’re a boom here, boomer young, i’m young, you’re young boomer. Yeah, almost genetics are seventy five percent of boomers have smartphones and that’s the primary way that they’re accessing all sorts of things. News your radio show information about websites e-giving donations online so you got to think about the population, which the vast majority of givers of high givers are also older people. You’re not going to be as effective if you’re just still mailing them stuff, right? They need thio interact and access just the way we all do, and they want to do it on the whole device. Mostly. Okay, okay, you want to add more to the research summary? That’s ah, pretty fair summary. So justin’s work has been primarily in quantitative data and looking at it from, like a sky level view. Getting these good statistics on what usage rate looks like. My work has been more qualitative when you actually sit down and interact with have a senior interact with either a website or a tool or technology, you asked them to use it, completing a particular task, and, yeah, the vast majority of them are wanting to do it on mobile as well. And especially from a non-profit perspective, it’s important to keep in mind that sometimes the on ly access someone may have to the internet is, in fact, on a mobile device. They may not have the means or access to like a desktop computer, and so that was something that we found in our research when we redesign tooth wisdom dot org’s, which is a website designed to provide education and accessed older adults to dental clinics, affordable ones in their area. When we did this study, we found that they really wanted to be able to search and that they may be doing this from a mobile device. Yeah, okay, okay, and in the middle, matt at a charity navigator, what was your part in the presentation so way have this predominantly older user base, but we’re also seeing a lot of growth in the twenty five to thirty, twenty four to thirty five year old user community that we’re seeing, so we’re struggling, too make angels to the site that that appeal to a younger generation, but not turn off or lose our older users in the process. So we have a lot of a lot of sort of feedback and help type questions that we get from older users where they just aren’t used to interacting with with websites like younger generations are on dso we’re always trying to sort of factor that in as we make changes to the site or or consider how we present information on the site. It’s. Time for a break pursuant. Their new paper is the digital donation revolution. I always love all the pursuant free resource is very generous. How do you keep up in our one click to buy amazon world? Can you use more revenue? The paper has five proven to work online. Fund-raising tactics that will save you money. It’s on the listener landing page. Of course. Tony dahna slash pursuing radio now back to avoid website ageism. There’s another layer to this two, which is the federally funded organizations. Yes, by law that required, you have to have accessible, abide by and it’s called section five o eight and it was voted on and passed through congress last year, january twenty seventeen and it just went into effect january eighteen o and this is any organization that receives any federal funding whatsoever, regardless of if it’s one hundred percent or if it’s two percent they receive any federal dollars whatsoever, they’re obliged to adhere to accessibility guidelines there, primarily based on the w keg, which is the world wide web consortiums, accessibility, content and six ability guidelines. Okay, thank you for question that. Because we have george in jail on tony? Yes, i apologize. You just walk in front of the prison? No. Yes, i wanted teo put it out there because it’s it’s an important resource. So it’s w c a g and it’s finding online. You see a g? Yes. Okay. Okay. So, so any any federal money, you’re getting grants for service or whatever, but anything at all and the critically this law applies to not just your public facing website, but anything that you use internally as well. So even if it’s just in internal that on ly the other staff members see all the only your millennial staff is using correct yes, it’s pretty burdens. Yeah, so it’s it’s pretty it’s pretty massive. But this is especially critical to seniors and older adults because forty percent of people above the age of sixty five have some sort of disability compared to twenty percent of the general population. And so, if you’re did, if you’re designing for seniors, you’re designing with accessibility in mind. Okay, dahna let’s. See where should we go testing you? So you do the individual testing. So your roll. Justin is more than quantitative research. About bigger, bigger picture recent yeah, my role in the presentation was sort of the higher level trends and another another thing that we all talked about in all near and dear buses, the impact of social media on things you know, we hear a lot about facebook and twitter and linked in and other things nowadays. And so again, there’s another myth that, well, seniors aren’t on technology and they’re definitely not on social media, which is absolutely false also good. The majority of seniors are on some form of social media, most likely facebook, and so if you think about you need to think about how to meet them where they are just convention on our in our engagement earlier today and that’s going to be mostly on facebook, you know, if you’re trying to get people and get them to interact, they’re going to be in a special channel, they’re going to be in facebook, they’re probably not going to be on twitter very often. There’s another myth twitter’s everywhere only thirteen percent of americans used twitter on a regular basis and of course, we all know one of them right here two hundred, chief, so thirteen percent use it on a regular basis thirteen percent of americans use twitter, so? So if you have an older population, you probably shouldn’t spend too much time on your twitter strategy, which is something we worry about, p r all the time you should think about facebook and think about other channels and think about websites and e mail because that’s, where you’re going to find i like coming back to you not because you thought i looked like john mackerel, but, you know, so it provides the broader context. Yeah, i was okay. And then jessica, you’ve done the individual you use your studies? Yes, sitting with seniors watching them way have devices that watch their eyes on a cz they navigate website. No screen reading studies are available from larger group screen reading, so that technology exists you, khun tracking studies tracking studies labbate which yeah, and then those can develop heat maps that will indicate where someone looks on a site but generally speaking, in terms of how seniors look at a website, it’s not very different from how most of us do most of us like to scan websites, we don’t like to read them. The average amount of time you spend on a website is between around single web pages between thirty seconds and sixty seconds. There’s not a whole lot of time, people, people just try to get what they can and they leave on dh that’s true for seniors as well. They’re there for a purpose way know that they don’t come in through the home page. They came from somewhere else they were looking at or looking for something specific, they link to you, they found it, they leave, yes, so he might try to engage them somehow that gets into, you know, marketing and the web site design, but but leave that aside buy-in they came for something specific, and they’re leaving after they get it correct and it’s interesting, because as webb has evolved over time, the home page has become less and less important because, as you said, they’re coming in from google and they’re landing on the pages that they’re looking for. And so for example, on the homepage is right overrated, for example, on our website, tooth wisdom dot or only eleven percent of our users come in through the home page and so it’s interesting. When you’re doing time evaluation oh, how much time should we think about the home page? Maybe eleven percent of your time, matt, i’m guessing. Does that vary for you? Is home page more important for charity? Navigator it’s actually less so so ten percent of our told my intuition eyes a data driven discussion. Ten percent of our total web page views heir of the home page so not not even landing on it. Just visiting it any point during your visit? Ok? Eso there’s there’s ah it’s a similar thing and i think, really the we mentioned five oh, wait like five oh, wait doesn’t talk doesn’t speak it all to how people move through your sight how they locate information on your site it’s about the visibility, the readability, the color contrast so it’s it’s still very important to talk to your users do the kind of studies that jessica did because you’re not going to know you can be one hundred percent five oh, wait compliant and have xero users able tto do what they’re trying to do when they come to your site. That’s absolutely true there’s a difference between accessibility, compliance and accessibility and practice, you have a loss that’s a minimum standard, right? But this is not going as far as you’re describing now. So, matt, you you’re straddling an interesting position because you said, uh, the elder population is most of your users, but you’re the younger population is growing, so you’re constantly straddling. How do you how do you rationalize that? So part of it is we we addressed it to our channels, so so our website, our facebook tend to have an old, older audience. Our twitter followers, as justin noted, tend to be younger, so we can we can sort of target content that way. Another big part of what we have to look at is just we can’t way sort of can never make a really drastic change to something on our website, because that will throw our senior audience even though a younger audiences is almost surprised when you go when i go to a website and nothing’s changed since the last time i’m there that’s sort of the anomaly, but with supporting older users, we’ve made what we thought were very simple changes to our search results page, and it throws people off and they don’t. Understand that it’s not the final destination, it’s just you have to click through to get to the data, and people are people ask us, you know, where did all the data go? Why did you take away all this information when it’s just they’re looking at a searchers all not at the page that used to be looking at so we go, let me go to justin. This is this has implications around the it’s, the way seniors air using the technology. So you’ve demystified ho are not demystified debunk these myths that, as jessica did to seniors or not using technology, they’re not engaged with it, but how they’re using it and their understanding of it is different. I mean, it’s not as sophisticated as someone who grew up with it. Yeah, it has more exposure. Yeah, i think it’s probably not a sophisticated, but they bring their kind of wisdom and life experience to it. So another thing is, what do you really believe when when you see things on the internet? We did this siri’s that things based on the whole fake news and other stuff to look at, how many people actually get news from facebook believe the news and what do they do have someone post something that they don’t like? So what we found is only about one in ten people now believe what they see in social media is news good. Only about a third of those people click through to actually look at the original content about, like, three percent it’s a very small number on then. But the other interesting thing is seniors less likely to have this one bad behavior, which is diferente de follow people who have a different opinion than them? The younger generations are much more likely tio unfriend or unfollowed someone let’s say, tony of a different opinion than idea about politics or some social thing. Seniors are going to ignore it. Younger people are going basically opt out of you and what that means and you feeling about the implication is we all are just star in our own personal echo chamber, right? What we hear, what we want to hear, we’re only talking people have the same opinion and i think that’s a very dangerous point, you know, america’s based on diversity in the melting pot, and if you’re not hearing people from other cultures or believes our angles, whether you think they’re right or not, you should at least listen. Seniors do that younger people do not very interesting. Okay, so dahna matt, i’m interested in what was the little change you made to the search page, that through seniors that you thought was not a big deal, so we actually we service mohr information onto the search result and gave you mohr functionality via the searchers, always doing things like the result s o that the fact that all that functionality and information was showing up on the search page, people didn’t didn’t understand anymore that they had to click in to a charity’s page to see that high that maurin dept is more in depth. They thought they thought you had a cat in a diddle, the right all the all the information down to just what they’re seeing on this screen, right? The one after the after i click search. Exactly, okay, kapin ate it. Is that the right use of the word? Shorten? Keep it simple, alright, reduced, all right, got it. Some best practices. You ah, from your seminar from the workshop description, you promised them best practices for helping the over sixty five, population sharing you s oh, they’re posted on the handshake from our session, which is eighteen ntcdinosaur okay, very good. So we have them posted there, and you should also be ableto flip through materials and find access to those slides. So some of the overarching principles the first one, which is very important is be big, be bold and be obvious. And so this has to do with create things in large text. High contrast, is it good enough? Text tohave a texting, larger obstruction lodging button it’s not that it’s a it’s a good thing to add it’s a nice feature, but you also have to expect quite a lot of people won’t see that available on dh so fun side, but if you make the guy larger, big that’s not still not adequate, so that goes that’s. A lot of people just will ignore that part of the screen, usually because they don’t visually identify it as the thing they’re looking for, like you said, but making text minimum of a year, she educates. The host brings me along. I’m very gracious. I’m grateful for that. Okay? Minimum size, i think, is recommended at seventeen point font for website. Okay, what’s the way know what the average is? We know what typical website is. A lot of people have it smaller than that because standard booker print size is twelve point and so a lot of people rely on that print standard over fifty percent larger yeah, roughly almost fifty percent larger than the standard book. Okay, okay, big, bold and what was it obvious? And so matt and i talked about this senior sometimes having a difficult knowing which items air interact oppcoll and so we recommend, for example, of recognizing the highlight like they don’t know that, like a button is a button on dh, so you might need literal signifiers to make it look like it’s a three dimensional button with a shadow that you would push in three in real life that’s a literal signifier, but it gives a visual indication that something’s interactive ble and i think literal signifier that central ok previous conversation today i was talking with the woman and sheila warren about bitcoin blockchain that you’re talking about the wallet wallet in blockchain. Is that is that what it was? What was the literal signals? That a literal signifier? I would say so i would say so when we refer to something that’s traditional for something that’s new because blockchain is just yes, people just discovering what it even means or how people think of a floppy disk. Us the same little signified, right? Right. A literal signifier. Yeah. Okay, little signal. I always wondered what those were, but when you see a little bank for for your for your savings or something, okay, little signifier, thank you for that. Your host aggression, right? That phrase down okay. And having nothing to do with this conversation, but or very little to do with it. Okay, i used know that matt had talked about how some of the users on their site had also struggled with things that weren’t necessarily obviously buttons. But we’re click. Okay. You got some. You got some best practices for dealing with the sixty five over. Yes. So? So one of the things is is just to make a literal call out. So one of the things we did teo help with. Our search results problem was making sure that there was there was words that said mohr details or more info, something that even though it’s a link and it’s blue and it looks just like every other charity name link that’s in the search results, the fact that it was more of a call to action and clearly something that if you’re saying, oh, i wonder where the details went, you could click on that thing, and it would take you to the following paige so just things that that sort of are very clear next steps or calls to action. The other thing that we’ve done is pages that might be a dead end, like if you click into a history of donation and you’re looking at an individual donation you made and you want to get back to the list for a lot of younger users don’t know they have to hit the back button, but we have we’ll actually put a button that says, you know, return to my donations so that it’s very clear that there’s always a way out from from whatever page you’re on and sort of similar, just sort of having bread crumbs. Sort of at the top of a page that would list sort of the hierarchy within the sight of the page that you’re currently at. So any anything that that sort of keeps people when, when they might think, oh, now i’m stuck. I don’t know where to go next e-giving them sort of an escape valve or an obvious thing to click on has the next step what are the breadcrumbs? What breadcrumbs on pages so breadcrumbs would be like if if you’re if you’re at the top of the charity navigator page and you click into a category and then it cause it will show you the category you clicked on as we list the causes within that cattle. Are you okay? Trail that contrary? Yeah, apple does that. I think they pioneered a lot of websites. Will have that sort of at the top. You are in the nest, right? Baizman nesting. Okay. Okay, justine, i don’t want to leave you out of the best practices conversation, but you know that you’re part of the bone, and i cracked. I definitely have about okay. And all of us share this theory, which is do more research. I mean, i think that the number one stumbling block block that people have and mac gave great examples and just cut you have to know your audience and do research to understand how they’re using your product or your website or whatever and sit down talk of them. It doesn’t have to be expensive, it doesn’t have to be a long process that could be a small focus group of granny’s at home or it could be your friends and family, but do research and have a discipline way. One cautionary note that i’ll put out. I don’t want to get in the acronym jail, but be calm argast drug in jail don’t ruin my little signals are like in jail, the literacy that are the literary sent a liberation, but the idea is don’t collect more data than you need because the gdpr is coming general data protection requirements from europe and so everyone in the united states, if they deal with european counterparts, is going to be required. Tio give people who are citizens of europe and the uk, the ability tio, act like they never visited your sight. Are they you know they could be for gotten and it’s very hard, the finds are extremely expensive. They’re meant to be business shutting fines and so don’t collect the any personally identifiable information you don’t absolutely need and have a way for people opt out of that, let them know what you have and have a way to get rid of it because that’s the requirement and starts at the end of may know yeah, i’ve been doing a lot of reading about that. We covered it on non-profit radio a couple months ago. Yeah, yeah it’s a tough one. But again, you know, the my final answer is you do research, it could be informal can be formal, but gets a users and have a feedback channel because we live in a dynamic world and people expect change. Okay, although matt, when people see change, they don’t always know how to react to it. And sometimes they get panicky. Yeah, and that’s the kind of thing that having a group to test that with, you know i can help you sort of a void that that stumbling block so so even even just being ableto put it in front of a small group of people who are in a representative portion of your audience, you know, putting putting in front of my developers is not a way to know if if are our older audiences going tto find a problem, you have some seniors come out to new jersey, you’re you’re in a small town into joe’s we are alleged wort know what is not gonna rock gonna rock. So so we want we it’s something we want to do more of way. Haven’t we haven’t done it? Jessica’s been ableto really incorporated into her process much more than we have. Okay, we do it all the time. And the thing we always say is you get out of your own conference room. Talk to real people, i think that’s very good advice for a lot of it. Also rates back to what you were talking about. You know, night narrowing your circle of of influence that you allow in, you know, but let’s, get out a little that’s. Good for life. Okay? We have to have, like, a minute or so left. Who wants to wants to put the finishing touches on this subject? A little motivation. Jessica, i’m gonna give it to me, okay? Because i started down that end with with justin, so let’s go. All right, so i think, oh, my gosh, no, i’m on the way they were talking to a friend, you know? We said, you know what i’ve been doing this work? Why is this so important? I think it’s very important, especially in the non-profit community that we don’t just talk the talk, but we walk the walk, and so if we say we’re trying to serve a specific population, it’s very important that we do the work to actually do that. And i believe that building tools and resources and technology for seniors is a way that we can live our mission and serve that population. That’s it rubber. Okay, she’s, jessica meister webb and you ex specialists at oral health america. Well, she’s not also mad dragon, but seated next to her is matt dragon and he’s, a director of engineering at charity navigator, and justin greaves, senior vice president of research porter novelli, justin sorry, jessica and justin. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. This interview has been sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc and i thank you for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagener, cpas they go beyond the numbers. They’re covering your essentials nine, ninety and audit before they go beyond the numbers. So first is the essentials. Then they go beyond the numbers. Check the matter whether cps dot com start your due diligence there. Then use the contact page or better go in real life. Pick up the phone and talk to you. Eat hooch doom the partner there. Wetness cpas dot com now time for tony’s take two. Thank you. However you’re listening live podcast am fm affiliate if you’re getting my insider alerts each week thank you. I am very glad i’m very grateful that you are with us. Thank you very much. Now let’s, go to grants for newbies. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center new orleans. This interview, like all our ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits i guess now are janice chan she’s, a tech training specialist. For development and alumni relations. Maybe the tech training special, the one of the only are you the guy? I am a team of one seam of one. She is the tech training specialist in development and alumni relations for johns hopkins institutions, and daniel faulkner is donor engagement coordinator for baltimore community foundation. Ladies welcome. Thank you for having a son like you. Your topic is grant proposals for newbies, bootstrapping research and preparations so that’s perfect, actually, for our audience of twelve thousand small and midsize non-profits some of whom may not be doing grants don’t don’t have to get started on grant’s research. You don’t know how to start putting. Well, there’s a paper depends hyre anymore, but doing out online forms, you know, and that probably should be in the fund-raising mix. You think, daniel, for most be a consideration. Definitely it’s, it’s, it’s. A robust process. But once you get it, handle it it’s really easy to follow year after year. So if you could work it into your schedule it’s definitely worth going active. Okay. Okay, janice, anything you want to add to the motivation step i think you get it gets easier. The first one is always tough to figure out, and it gets easier as time goes on, so don’t get discouraged by exactly first one. Exactly number five will be easier than number one. Exactly. Okay, okay, let’s, talk about some of the research, you know. How do you how do you, uh, find out about grants that might be appropriate for u s o for me, i look for free and easy sources. We love free on free it’s always great. I will plug one, which is foundation center. They have a great website to find funding opportunities they have. If you in baltimore, if you go to a public library, you can actually access their account free. They’re free full membership, most libraries or institutions, educational institutions have a membership through them. So that’s a great resource. If you’re looking for nine nineties, you want information about funders? I use them a lot. Their office in d c is great because they’re really if you call, they’re willing to help you and they’re all volunteered face or they have classes webinars that are free. So i use that a lot in my day today foundation research you khun i’m sorry foundation sent to research. You could do any any of their affiliated library in that country. Exactly. There are many there that you don’t have to be a subscriber. You there so we can be who you want to do for your desktop. You won’t get as many features, but the features that are offered through their free on account justice. Good there are okay. The other other janice free resource is that we could take advantage of besides foundations dahna sure grantspace go for any federal funding and that’s that’s up your alley and you’re usually a lot of states will have a local council of grantmaker zor of foundations, community foundations, humor sort of have a consortium and you can sort of go to one place and get some of them, even have a common common form. Okay, okay. Others other we love free resource is anything besides, maybe your community group. I know. In new york, there’s new york regional duitz association of grantmaker is nigh rag. So there’s that goes well, the foundation center. Any others were involved when we have a bag, which is another resource, like a bag thing. Well, i would say community foundations are a great way. Usually most their websites give a general opportunity list of what’s going on for their fund holders. So in baltimore, we have over eight hundred funds that come through our foundation. So that’s a great source. If you know your community foundation, get in contact with them to see what’s available and how they can help. Okay? Okay, anymore i’ll keep asking. You say there are no more also like your state or local organization of a non-profit associations. So, maryland, the suspicion non-profit organizations has some of those. Resource is that you can, you know, make an appointment schedule to use as well. Ok, for research there, there for research research. Resource is also okay. Okay. Anything else? I think that covers everything the free and easy. The user friendly ones that are a great start there won’t overwhelm people. Those are really good sources to use when you’re first starting out. Okay. These are also for not only finding well grants, doing your own research around foundations that may fundez your fundez or work. These are all resource. Is that exactly that? Well, okay. Okay. What’s, the next step. So now we now we know where we should be applying. We’re taking it step by step. Danielle, where should we where do we go next? Well, for me, after i’ve done all the research, i have a proponent of writing one grant and then from there outsourcing it and using it to write many multi purpose. Exactly. I call it my my thanksgiving dinner of granting if you go one grantspace irv’s, everyone. So that’s, where most of my work comes in, i would say gathering information that pertinent to your organizations, so that might be your mission statement all your financial papers on the irs, things working with your program team to make sure you have the right lingo in a language down to explain the project that you’re want funding for take some real time to gather that all in one location. So when you sit down and write, you don’t have to go and have to go back and forth. I’m a really big component of doing all the hard work first, so then you can focus on the writing if you that’s not your strong point there’s also a point that’s tangential to that which is make sure you follow all the instructions exactly. Hide everything just for doesn’t really matter how burdensome you think it is. Yes. And they say twelve twelve point fonts on double do it, it’s not a suggestion. Find tabs? Yeah, ever. What was jonas finder town that they need to be labeled? Just do it. Okay, it’s like, in that sense, it drives me of dealing with government bureaucracy. I’m just they may ask things that don’t make sense to you, but and it may not even make sense to the people who are asking for it. It may have been twenty years ago, but just do it okay, just comply. You know you’re asking for their their support. You gotta comply, right? And i’d like to add a point to that to write figuring out like one of things we talked about our session was having a go or no go less right there’s things that yeah, there’s some hoops that you’re going to jump through it’s going to be worth it. But you also wanna they’re going to be some things that maybe is a stretch too far for organizations. Kind of taking you off mission. You’re kind of drifting. From things. So you want to make sure that that’s really feasible, invisible as well? Okay, that’s a very good point, especially in terms of mission, you know, it’s only it’s only sort of related to what you do, you know, they’re going to read through that, right? And you’re probably gonna be unsuccessful in the grant anyway, you know. So why try toe conform your work, tio what they’re looking for? Better to stick with exactly what you do, find funders for that makes it ok. But look at the different angles of what it is that you do that might be appealing to that funder, but it’s, so good to be at the end of day. What you’re actually trying to find accomplice, you gotta be on the same page, okay? Oppcoll you talk about i’m just drawing from what was in your session description? Oh, interpreting instructions is that is that basically what we’re talking about? Or is there more spending one? Yeah, just read them. I would have after you’ve written the actual brand and this is way after have someone not associated with the organization or maybe a co worker who’s, not in the process. Read the instructions of unread your grants so they can look at it from a different eye. Make sure you hit all the targets because if you’re in it and your writing it, you might think you answered that question correctly, but in reality he didn’t, and someone outside of your space well under sand so i would definitely, if you have the time, try to get someone outside of your world to read it and the instructions fired-up anything that janice you want to add, i think also, i don’t like to start with what’s needed less when i go through the instructions like, okay, let’s, before we can gather everything’s, make that checklist that i don’t lose something or i can get somebody else rolling on whatever i need, i need their help with. Okay. Last november, i hosted a panel at the foundation center. I’ve done a fair amount of speaking there. It was not a great writer or professional, but it was a panel of grayce grant oars, funders and one non-profit and the subject matter was building a relationship with the institution, even including at the applications, you know, some some explicitly say no calls. So oppcoll but others are more open to communication or maybe it’s no calls and, you know, we take emails, but talk a little about that early stage where you’re still rating, having getting questions answered, you know, not being afraid, anybody? Well, i’ve never come across a call for a proposal that didn’t have instructions on if you have questions during the process, they always air usually upfront about that which they prefer follow that to a t and that that’s what i told my freelance clients the same way, you know, if you do have a question, let me go through that process for you, but don’t like magically run into that person for that thunder that’s not really appropriate, but follow their rules just like the instructions for the grant follow the rules. What do you mean that people see through that stuff? Yeah, you know, it becomes law fake and phony, and you don’t want that, i don’t know and if the end, if they don’t write, i mean funders know they’ve your non-profit what you’re looking for us funding, right? Like that’s already in the back, right? You want to you want to find out? What? What it is that that fundez hoping to achieve through their grantmaking so that you can line that up. But i think also, if they don’t have explosives constructions about, don’t call, don’t e mail anything like that, right? You know, it doesn’t mean i don’t feel like you can’t. You’re like, you know what? Like our boardmember knows somebody on their board, let’s, just see if that would be okay to have a meeting. Tto, learn more and meet with their program officer to see you. Is this a good fit? Doesn’t line up or, you know, it should be it go looking elsewhere. Good. How about tracking deadline? Make sure we go to a lot of details were like twenty five minutes, yeah, don’t hold back, don’t hold out on non-profit video sures deadline, so deadlines ah, and i’m one of those people would put, like, you know, two weeks ahead of the actual deadline on my calendar, but i think that there are a lot more, you know, when i did a lot of my grantwriting is before a lot of project management skills were easier to use and they are, so i just put a lot of things in a spreadsheet on dh kind of, like project manage things that way think they’re a lot more project management tools now, right where you can put in due date it’s gonna trigger reminder and send you an email or, you know, when you log into that system, et cetera, but i think that that is really key, because if you you know, if you don’t similar, like if you’re applying for a job, you don’t follow the instructions, you don’t meet their time frames, you don’t show that you’re respectful of their time, they’re going like, why am i exactly? We have a deadline it’s an easy right off that in the next way didn’t say postmark said, bye you know you’re gonna be disqualified our land and also building and buffer times using technology. First of all, that’s a technology help brovey times yeah, you’re not gonna be able to devote a solid week to this, so don’t leave five business days before the deadline to get started on that right? Be realistic about what you can do in the time for him, a lot of opportunities may pop up it’s a rare with grants cause cycles are pretty much the same, but be realistic if you are a team of one r office that small, i don’t think you can pull off the whole grant and a time frame of a month that’s a lot of work to do for one person if you’re a small office buy-in some opportunities you have to wait for just go after next year, but yeah, be realistic about those deadlines and don’t think you could just write a grant overnight. I thought clients asked me that, and i always turned them down right away. No, you won’t get my best work at that, so yeah. Just be realistic about what you can produce. What your staff can take on that’s also related to what we were just talking about it, asking questions of the the foundation of the thunder. You know, if the question is coming the day before the due date yeah, that looks back that you know, that even you can’t mask it. They know they’re down you again. You’re gonna be gonna be found out. So all right, plan ahead. Leave yourself enough time. So even a month is really not enough time for a small shop. I like to do at least four to six months and that’s if everything is weight, should be. But there are those rare occasions where something pops up. You can’t miss out, you need it. That’s where i would say if you’ve already written that one grant, you’re prepared already so you can dust it off for what you need from it. And you can apply to that one that pops up within a month. Otherwise, i probably wouldn’t go under a month just because of what you have to produce. If it’s a brand new grant and if they’re asking for a lot. Of extra things that you don’t have time to produce in a you know, good manner, i think the weather you’re starting from scratch like your writing a grand for a new program that you haven’t had to write one for me for right? Like a lot of stuff you can recycle, but some things you can’t or like, they’re taking a very different tack on whatever it is you’re doing. I think the other thing is that the attachments, right? If they want their like budget for mated, a format, a specific way, you you know, your finance person doesn’t have that time, right? So i think just being cognizant of that and being cognizant, what you’re asking of your coworkers will also make the process smoother because you’re always like, i always worked closely with the finance people with our program south and the better relationships i had with them, like, okay, let’s, be realistic about this and also is this realistic for me to ask for? Or is there are there some adjustments that we should make that’s so meet the put the funder is looking for, but that aren’t going to be just a pain for everybody to actually implement if you get the grand also good point too you’re going to be counting on other people? Or is that another reason to allow enough time? Exactly? I don’t want to make enemies in your you got enough opportunity. Do that elsewhere around. Same team here. Okay, i gotta take a break. You’ve heard the talis moughniyah lll from lee elementary school, where they’re getting a monthly donation from tell us for the credit card processing of a parent owned company that’s the secret to the monthly pass of revenue from tell us, ask the people close to your organization who owned businesses that would they switch to tell us that’s the key? Get those insiders started tony dahna em a slash tony tell us now back to grants for newbies anything else around this discussion about deadlines? More hold out on us now don’t wait to submit an online application so the last day like i always i actually block, would block off time on my calendar because i definitely like the day before submitted and like their website has gone down, you know, like will this count against us? We don’t know, maybe we should have submitted it earlier, and so then you end up panicking about it. You know why you schedule it, like at least three days in a fans for, like, an online submission, or, you know, maybe till i get it in the mail, get it, you know, tracks, you know, it’s worth getting a track for that piece of minds. I once drove across town and actually dropped it off. But that’s, an idea you got there twenty minutes before that funders office closed. Got there, just in the nick of time. It was a day off, but that was not ideal. Don’t do that. Don’t do that. Don’t let this happen to your exact a proud moment, okay, but thanks for sharing. Hyre. A prepper preparing for online submissions. We just talked about that clearly. Tips for online. We got more time to get now, when is your sessions? Have you had it? This morning. Okay. Now you spoke for an hour on this topic. And you? We did. Okay. What? I think it was just right. Join now. We’ve been together for seventeen minutes. So are like sixteen minutes. We have a minute of prep. You got more. Don’t hold out on us. Ah, fun fact about me. I love reading nine nineties that’s. If you know what those are, the virus form nine. Ninety. Exact wired by latto you like you’re not talking about the easy no, no, no, no. Thirty patients postcard postcard don’t no, no, actually, i started high school with a non-profit i was volunteering for that’s how we fund-raising to come back because we’re all volunteers so i was taught very of sixteen. Seventeen howto break them down and i enjoy it now for sure somebody tips on how to decipher how to get out of the good things to know you can find out who you need to contact as far as who to invite to her events, if you’re afraid that religion is the foundation, you’re looking at the wound, yes, so they have to list who was involved with our foundation. So i’m talking about their board, who their highest paid person is our persons, you don’t have to disclose your five thing exactly he’s on the nine, ninety okay would say if you are not inviting those people to her events, you should, because those are the people who have power clearly in that organization. If they don’t know who you are and you’re not on their radar, you should be, and that list it verifies, hey, they’re important to be on this form. I should probably know who they are, and they should know who i am so that i always tell people check that list out is web sites aren’t always updated quickly on dh that’s, a yearly thing that the irs form also their disclosure of where they give money. People can say a lot of things, but what they report to the arrests have to be legit, so looking at how much they give tio organizations that are like yours, so if you’re, you know, arts organization and you find a nine ninety where they’ve given in the past, but their highest gift has been two thousand dollars. I wouldn’t go for them for ten thousand dollars. I would stay in that range of okay under two thousand it’s the first time, maybe a thousand, but it gives you a good indication of what they’re capable of giving that’s also looking at their salaries if their executive director only makes fifty thousand and you need that probably shouldn’t ask for fifty thousand. But you should definitely okay, little things like that where you can break that down on nine nineties there free. You don’t have to. Everyone has tohave one. Some of them are located on people’s websites, so they’re really easy to find this buy-in store have foundation. They d’oh d’oh scores another one. I sir, has its foundation, of course, has attorney xero back-up probono also happens. We’re together database e-giving well, yeah, yeah, so little things like that. I kind of check on what i do take on a freelance client and they say, oh, i want to go after this grant, i check out that foundation first and say, is this worth your time? Because they might have grand ideas off. Oh, they’ll give me this when in reality no, they’re not so it’s. A good way to double check yourself and it’s a free source and they have to give it something else that can happen is referrals from board members, but not bona fide like just right. Oh, i heard i heard the rockefellers funded. Yeah, great. You know, let’s see, if that i dont happen, you know our work, you know, they have a lot of money, a rockefeller have a lot of money and gets to exactly everybody knows that. And if they’re not allied with what we’re doing now, what’s the point. Sometimes you have to press back, push back. Otherwise you’re going to be real. Or if you find in baltimore, we have certain family foundations where they give to similar organizations throughout the year if you’re new on the scene and saying, hey, is this a good opportunity or good contact? Tohave you can find similar people are doing your work and say, well, they’ve already got a contact with them. They might like me too. So it’s a good way to say like, are we on the same level, you know. Will they even, like, welcome, ian, if they’re already on that same mind. So i like to look at that. Zoho your peers are exactly know your peers are going after. So you khun get a piece of that pie. Okay. All right. Those were excellent. Thank you, danielle. Insider like pro tips for the nine. Ninety it’s. A weird thing i liked. I glad somebody likes to look at them. It’s mitch, what else? We got several minutes together. Somebody but somebody had brought up like they had this sort of weird program model. And anyhow, i think one of things that’s important to think about is as much as we harp on following the instructions and following, you know, everything that they asked for the tea. Like what? Their contact preferences are, et cetera. Also don’t feel like you should be boston by that. Right. So that’s that’s, i think where working your network has the potential. Teo, open up. You know, other ideas. So i get in terms of corporate funders. Right, corp corporations usually have both, like the they might have a corporate foundation, but there’s a marketing dollars that they give. Out of to write for a slightly different reasons, right? But if you have a conversation with whoever’s in charge of giving right, or even if it’s somebody in their corporate social responsibility department, right, you can have that conversation about, you know it does this make here’s what we’re doing here, some opportunities for your organization to get involved, you know, maybe if employees engagements important to them, whatever it is, right? You finding out what that angle is for, what they’re trying to achieve through there giving right, whether it’s on the marketing event sponsorship side or they really like that grants more formal grantmaking side for it or some bridge of the combination of the two right, and then also corporations, national corporations in this half like local community e-giving where that local store of, you know, say of a large chain store, they might have that store manager might have the ability to give out small grantspace right, it’s a good way to get your foot in the door and say like, hey, can we get we work across the state? Can we get? Is it possible to get funding at that state level? So i think don’t be afraid to sort of, like, figure out what is your foot in the door to start that conversation with them and that’s also where you can find out. Okay, you know what? Maybe this isn’t really good fit, but people move around to write and they remember you like you’ve had a really good relationship with them. You’ve, like, always kept him updated, invited them to your events, right? See what we’re doing, even if you’re not doing it right now, maybe you personally, like i would make, you know, like we’ve gotten i’ve seen people like, you know, like, okay, my company isn’t doing right now make a small personal gift because i think you guys are doing great work, right? And those people have moved, and i’ve also see them come back and say, like, you know what? I’m a different organization that now funds programs like yours, so you know, like, the more you can build those relationships and have those conversations just get on people’s radars, as danny mentioned, the more people you know, just like personal networking, the more people know what you’re doing and see that impact it has, then i think that’s more people can advocate for you. Someone who’s volunteered to re grants for review. Ah lot of the decisions come down to do i know who this person is. Do i know who this grant us for? Andi it’s very shallow thing to say like, well, i don’t know who that is, why i give money even though they’re doing great work, but it’s a reality. If you’re not on their radar, why would they take a chance on giving this x amount of money? So you really do have to think about how you’re engaging those people that you’re going after and don’t just approach them when you need money approached me around so they know who you are and they feel comfortable getting with that amount of money that isn’t that the same as what we do with individual? Yes, come to the clinic and engaged. We educate them just like them. And then, you know, the ultimately that there may very well be a solicitation for some, you know, for something and and janice, you’re point is very good to terms of corporate, you know, it’s not only about money, but employee engagement, your opportunities it’s often very important, right? Or if they’re start opening headquarters in a new community, and then i have a relationship with that community, and you, d’oh, right, that’s, a good place to position yourself as well. Okay, uh, we still have another couple of minutes left, like men and a half or so together. Daniel, i guess. My three takeaways for writing, because that’s, my background study, playwriting. But this is how i get to write as well. It’s all over it’s weird, but i would definitely say, win or lose, funded or not, i was under thank you letter i’m a big proponent of thank you letters that’s part of the follow-up you never know when friend funding will become available. So that little piece of thank you, you know, regardless, we’ll keep them engage. I always say simple equals fundez so you might have a beautiful paragraph about everything you’re doing, but when it gets down to it, it might be too much. So that goes back to the instructions. If they have a word limit, follow it. But also you’re getting too wording and just what you’re doing. Just take it out. They really want to look at the numbers and the outcomes and how they’re going to get that money back if there is opportunity for that looked like that. And then your last one kind of brief. Last one said you had three three takeaway? No, i don’t never mind. Okay. Thinking. Sorry, right to protest to yeah, those are the two big ones too big to take away. Okay. All right. We are going to leave it there. All right, so my pleasure they are. They are jenise chan, the technical training specialist in development and alumni relations for johns hopkins institutions on danielle faulkner dahna engagement coordinator at baltimore community foundation. It sounds like she’s also a freelancer. Yes. Okay. Okay. Girl right. That’s, the freelance for arts funding in baltimore city. We’re looking for that girl right where you are, right? Tio? Yep, like playwright. Okay. Danielle janis, thanks so much. So much. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen, ninety si, thank you for being with us. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits, thanks so much next week. Storytelling and free facebook fund-raising if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wetness, cps dot com and by telus credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream durney dahna slash tony tello’s, a creative producers claire meyerhoff family boats in the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez and our music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Nothing. Good. Hello, this is bruce chamlong, host of the web design and technology coach. Join me and my guests every tuesday from eight to nine pm as we discussed the latest in web design, social media, marketing, search, engine optimization and technology way also discussed popular topics, including ward press, making money online, better koegler rankings and more every month way. 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Nonprofit Radio for March 9, 2018: Risk Management & Your Disaster Recovery Plan

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Ted Bilich: Risk Management

“Not all risks are bad,” says Ted Bilich. He’ll help you identify the good and bad ones and get them into your risk inventory. He’s CEO of Risk Alternatives, LLC.

 

 

 

Dar Veverka: Your Disaster Recovery Plan

An IT disaster is one of the bad risks. What belongs in your DR plan? Dar Veverka is from LIFT and she’ll help you sort it out. (Originally aired 5/1/15)

 

 


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Buy-in hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d break out with cering go sista noma, if you made me sweat with the idea that you missed today’s show risk management, not all risk is bad, says ted village. We’ll walk you through why you should care about the good and bad and how to get going with your risk inventory he’s ceo of risk-alternatives and your disaster recovery plan one bad risk is you’re going to put ignore it at your own peril. What belongs in your d our plan darva arika is from lift that originally aired on may fifth twenty fifteen i’ll take two charity registration and plan giving podcasts responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio and by weinger cps guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dot, m a slash tony tell us it’s my pleasure to welcome ted village. He is ceo of risk-alternatives llc, providing risk management and process improvement. Solutions for non-profits and start ups he used to practice law and has served on the boards of numerous organizations. Ted has written about risk management and process improvement in stanford social innovation review, where you can also hear this show. Corporate responsibility magazine. This show is not on corporate sponsors. What magazine and risk management magazine were also not there. He’s at t bilich and the company is at risk. Hyphen alternatives dot com welcome to non-profit radio. Ted. Tony it’s. Great to be here. I hope you’re doing well. Thank you. I am. And how are you? I have to ask. I’m doing great. Thanks. I’m glad. Everybody’s. Good today. All right. Um all right. You’ve been in some magazines that non-profits are most likely not reading responsability magazine. Corpse. Sorry. Corporate responsibility magazine risk management magazine. I’m sure you’re not unfamiliar with this risk management sounds boring. Why either boring or scary? Alright. And if this was not on some affiliate stations, i might use stronger language. I might put it. Put an adjective on before the word for before the word boring. Oh, my god. Why should we be paying attention to this? You know you. Hit on one of the most important issues that i face, which is when people think about risk management, they think about either the fact that it’s one more obligation for them or that they don’t wanna lift up rocks because they’re afraid of what what’s under them and and, you know, what i say to people time and time again is that risk management is a critical part of your business because especially if you’re a non-profit you are dealing with more risks than almost any other organization you could possibly think of, you know, think of the non-profit business model, toni it’s, your taking money from strangers in order to deal with intractable problems. And if you do your job really well, your business should go out of business that’s a risky model, so it really pays to pay attention to risk management, and we could get into sort of what that means if you’d like, yeah, we’re going to, um you do say that not all risk is bad. That’s exactly right? Flush it out. Yeah. Yeah, sure. You know, one of the one of the issues in risk management is what do you mean by rich? And risk matt necessarily mean bad things risk. So i always tell people, when you’re talking about risk talking about uncertainty management, you could have bad risk that could go go, go wrong, and we call those threats. He could also have good rick, you know, opportunities either opportunities for improvement of your current processes or opportunities in the sense of new initiatives, and all of that is within the framework of a good risk management process. Okay, so i like the idea of we don’t know what’s going to happen next. It’s. Just it’s something we don’t know, right? So it does not. Of course, it does not have to be bad. It could be fantastic, right? Okay, absolutely. You know, it could be that that that there is a new donor who is waiting to not give you money if you expand your programs in a new direction, but simply wants to give you money to do mohr of what you’re doing now. And you believe that this is important for non-profit sustainability? Oh, gosh, yes, if you don’t, if you don’t have a risk management process, tony, then let’s say, you’re thinking about having a strategic plan or you have a strategic plan, how can you possibly have confidence that that strategic plan is going to accomplish its its objective if you don’t have a really strong awareness of what your current capabilities are, including what the threats and opportunities are that face your organization? So there’s this thing out there called a swot tte or swat analysis? Um s w o t the o’s opportunities in the tear threats i forget with the what do you what’s the s and the w its strength and weak she’s. So weak threat. Thank you. All right. Yeah. And and people use that sometime during strategic planning process. Okay, so this is s so we’re calling altum positive risks or good risks. That that’s the opportunity. That’s, right? Those are opportunities there. Potential opportunities? Ok. Yes, exactly. And one of the things that i talk to people about when when they talk about a swat analysis, is that swat analysis tends to be a static once every couple of years, activity done during strategic planning. One way to think about risk took that slot and alan and you operationalized it so that you were as a matter of routine, looking at your strengths and weaknesses and opportunities and threats. That’s one way to think about a risk management structure is it’s taking the swat process and making it something that is ongoing over time. I think it should be swope i think it’s a long hour, i know not to quibble, but i think it’s, of course, equivalent, but i think it’s a long oh, i think so long, so might be, but i don’t think that negates anything that you just said, i don’t know listeners thinking that all right, so so an ongoing process. Now you you have this cool article. Stanford social innovation review called a call for non-profit risk management, you make very clear in that, and we have about a minute before first break make very clear that that this is not really appropriate for start ups. If you start up basically, your your argument is you can cover this most of your problems or potential risks with insurance. But so when when should we start doing formalized risk analysis? You know, a good signal for that, tony and briefly before break good signal is when you start doing, when you start having regular audit, um, that usually happens when a non-profit is going into growth phase, and at that point, it’s useful to start having a risk management process because after all, you’re becoming a grown up organization. Okay, so when you start when you start having going through an audit process with your right when you and then that usually in love that you know, depending on the state seven hundred fifty thousand dollars to a million dollars of annual revenue, okay, let’s, take our first break pursuant, their newest paper demystifying the donor journey. You need to be intentional, deliberate about stuart in your donors, we’re talking about being delivered today, assessing risk. You also need to be deliberate about stewarding your donors so you don’t lose them. Pursue it will help you create and fine tune your donorsearch stewardship plan. Keep your donors with you so you don’t have to replace them each year. Demystifying the donor journey it’s at tony dot m a slash pursuant, radio let’s, go back to ted village and let’s continue our talk about risk management thiss ongoing assessment process so all right, so we know when we should begin. Um, what shall we begin with? Is it? Is it the risk inventory? That’s exactly right, tony the first step still, this good risk management process is too take stock of where you are now because you can’t start prioritizing if you don’t have awareness of what your current threats and opportunities are so there’s a process risk-alternatives hq inventory it’s simply a structured exercise that you take your staff through to help them identify threats and opportunities not just within operations, but operations and finance that i t and a talent management and development and all those different functions within the non-profit and it usually takes about, you know, two or three hours of work total for your staff to do something like this spread out over a couple of weeks, and at the end of it, you have a really good idea of the threats and opportunities you currently face, really only two to three hours for each put threespot actually not that hard of a process in fact, your listeners could go to our website, risk-alternatives risk-alternatives dot com and download a little report that shows you how to do it on your own when we do it as a facilitated manner. It takes about an hour to train people about risk management, and then they go off on their own and each person takes about forty minutes to use an online tool toe identify these threats and opportunity. So it’s really not a long involved process. I love the online resource. Thank you for that. So again, risk hyphen alternatives dot com let’s say i want to flush this risk inventory a little bit. So who should be involved in this process? First of all? Well, when when we advise customers to do it, we always say you should have your c sweet team. I’m assuming that that you have a small, that this is a fairly small organization were small. There were small to midsize non-profits here, however you think one point five, two million dollars to five million dollars in revenues, you probably have a ceo cfo, a head of development in in some form or another, and probably someone in charge of programs. You would want to have those people, but we also also always advised get one person who’s simply a staff member right on the front line and have them do it along with the senior team because they’re no thing that that the senior staff don’t have any id dea is going on. Yeah, i know that there. That could be very eye opening on ly one person, though, from from down in the trenches. Well, on in your initial risk inventory, tony wanna balance thoroughness with efficiency. And so with this initial inventory, i think it’s good to have one person from the trenches. But this is mostly going to be a bottom down identification process. His first run through the idea behind it, though, is that risk management is not a one and done thing. You do an inventory, you prioritize, you respond to those you assess and improve, and then you do another inventory and so on and so forth. And as as you grow this within your organization, you would want to make sure that mohr and more people are involved in that risk identification process. All right, so i see we’ve got an interpretive process. Let’s, go back to our initial one now. All right, so we’ve got this were basically creating a committee, that’s going to meet a couple of times, you said over, like two or three weeks. We’re creating a committee. A risk risk assessment committee is not going to scare people like we think committee, right? Okay, that sounds like when, when, when people below the c suite start hearing there’s, a risk assessment committee being formed. That sounds like they’re going to firings, coming, eyes firing or they know about. They know about the seven deadly plagues that are ten deadly plagues, depending on which version bible you read. There’s, locusts and blood and darkness coming on dh, what else we got flies really was that part of the buy-in frogs, frogs that was the effort, the other fellow. So this sounds a little scary to me if i’m not on the committee, no that’s exactly right, which is why one of the things that we advise the senior staff to do when they decide to go through this sort of exercise is to send in all staff e mail out saying, you know, we’re doing this process so that we can dip our toe in the in the waters of risk management. It’s not a matter of something to worry about. In fact, the idea over time is to get everyone in the organization involved in this process, okay? So yeah, and we’re actually trying to do is reduce worry by identifying what’s out there that we don’t know. So we’re identifying are known unknowns. What about our unknown unknowns? Can we get to them? They’re always going to be things that are unknowable, you know, there’s, a wonderful book by, uh, well, it’s called the black swan. Have you read it, tony? You know, i think i saw a movie called black swan, but i don’t i don’t think it’s very different now a very different from what i’m talking about, okay, this book is about how, no matter how well you might try to predict the future, there are always going to be significant jolt of one sort or another that you can’t possibly predict beforehand. And so you know, i again, i always tell people, risk management is not a crystal ball. The better analogy is risk management is a flashlight in the dark, it allows you to see things you might not otherwise see. It makes the path a little safer because you can see some of the things that that might be bad along the way and some of the things that might be good, that can help you, but it also gives you a healthy sense of maybe we shouldn’t be running too fast, because if we run too fast, we’re not going to see the things that could trip let’s. Let’s, go back to our to our initial committee now. So so how do we ah wei, is that there’s a risk assessment committee? Yeah. Can we call that? Okay, managing committee, risk inventory shoretz are risking our r i c were first our first rick. So way get the group together. What do we do? How do we get the process started? If we don’t, we don’t have the luxury of the of a professional facilitator, right? Well, if i were doing it and i didn’t want to bring my company or some other company and it’s, what i would do is i would cheat in the following way, i would go get that that report that that we have on our website and i would download that and it says, ah, this is how you do it. These air, the various different functions that you want to look at, and it lists eleven different functions of the organization, and it says what you ought to do is you hot auto, have each team member within each function, identify three things that could go wrong, and one thing that could go right in the near future either because it’s a new process that we could adopt, or a new initiative or a process that we could tweak in some way. So each one of the people goes off and does and and they identify three threats and one opportunity in each function of the organization. Okay, then they do it, but they do it, tony, even if it’s not their function oh, you’re going all right. Well, let’s, take one step at a time. First of all, just just name a couple of the functions. You know, talent management. Okay. Hiring, developing and if necessary, firing people that’s one funky reputation management, you know, how do you influence what? What people think about your organization. Um, fernand is another function. How do you account for the money that flows through the the organization? Just give us one. Give us one more. We don’t want to eleven. Because because there are available on the title is the big ones. You know, how do you use elektronik technology in order to enhance the services you provide? Why’re we waited three, three potential bad and one potential. Good. Why can’t we be? Do equalize it out two and two. You could do it that way. I’ve found just over time that people are going to be very, very, um, free with identifying things that could go wrong. People have lots of worries, especially during an initial risk inventory. They like to dump a lot of stuff out on on the table it the reason why we emphasize identifying at least one opportunity is that we want them to be balanced in their presentation to some extent. Nevertheless, it always is that people are going to identify more threats than opportunities, and so we’ve set it up as a rubric of three to one to at least get the one in each because really not balance it’s tze, twenty five percent good and seventy five percent bad, but but you see, people are thinking mohr negatively, people thinking more about the bad risks that’s, right? And and also when when you know, when we reconvene after after having people look at those things out on their own. One thing that that happens is that the team the committee that you’ve developed is going to find that they identified it ah lot of the same risk, so you might get a list of one hundred risks, but really it’s going to end up with about sixty sixty to seventy risks and and a lot of those things that they identify as bad things aren’t going to stand up to the light of day one person might be worried, but another person has a full explanation, and so it will simply go away. You’ll end up with about forty or fifty for challenge either positive challenges or negative challenges, and and at the end of that process, i can almost guarantee that someone who does this will be aware of two or three things that are low hanging fruit, that they can pick very rapidly in order to help their organization thrives. Now, are we allowed to come back to the committee then with mohr than the four that you challenged us with? And then the committee and the committee flushes them out to get down to this forty or fifty? Is that the way it works? Yes, if someone wants to identify more than three threats and one opportunity, i would never say, no, you can’t, but but on the other hand, you don’t want someone, for instance, to focus so much on this that they become, you know, all engrossed in in their potential worries rather than doing their job. So you wanted to be somewhat manageable, all right? We’re in the details of this, which is where i want to be. So so our first meeting is introductory. And then we give some homework second meeting you’re coming back in a week or maybe give him ten days. All right, maybe it’s a it was a long weekend in there, so e-giving e-giving ten days you’re coming back with your your analysis of threats and opportunities with the understanding that we’re going to narrow, we as a committee are going to narrow it down to three, three and one for each functional area, okay? No, no, no, that that i think i misled you on that one. Well, you’re going to narrow it down to a certain number of risks. It may be that there are that that the committee ends up saying, yeah, there really are seventeen risks in the development function. And they all are really rich. Each person would have identified only three. But, you know, maybe maybe it ended up that that you had ah, fifteen at least, um, legitimate risks threats that were identified, that is, you don’t limit it artificially as far as the total number of risk that could be identified within a function. Okay, i think you did mislead me, but that’s all right? You know, character. So listeners going go back, listen to what ted originally set the record will now pass that’s, right? I think it’ll show that i’m correct, but, um, so all right, so and you had also said that people can identify threats and opportunities outside their their own functional area, so a cfo can comment on it, and i can’t comment on hr and talent development, et cetera. Okay, um, that’s our second meeting, what happens after that? Now, we’ve now we’ve got our core of forty to fifty yeah, you’ve got your core of forty to fifty. The next step in that in the process would be to prioritize along those risks, because if you have forty two, fifty two, sixty risks and you think they’re all equally important, well, you’re just going to be frozen in inaction. So the next step is to use whatever tool you wish to use to prioritize those risks down to the most important ones that your organization face. And when i’m advising r our clients, i say the simpler the better, as far as prioritization, use a simple, you know, ah, point system, where each person on the team gets a certain number of points and they can allocate those points, however they wish among the fifty or sixty rhys so that if you want to push him all of your chips on toe one risk because you think that’s really important and should be really high priority for the organization, you could do that. Um, and and by doing that, you end up with your top ten or fifteen risk that got the most points and those become your first prioritized punch list of high value items that your organization should focus on during the coming period of time. You could do this like a poker game. You could all be you could buy everybody a stack of chips and okay, number one, we’re going to go through all forty or fifty. Number one who wants to throw is number one throwing your chips. But when you have a chip on that one that you exactly right, good bet judiciously, because when you’re out of chips, then you’re silent. There’s no taking chips back. Alright, right? Yeah. And? And what is happening is that people will take different different approaches to deciding what you know what their priority risks are and and the reason why. I say it needs to be a simple process is that deciding priority really is a judgment call? It has something to do with how dangerous or how good is this opportunity of its opportunity? How, how, how big is the risk if it comes about, how likely is it to come about? And if it comes about, how much lead time are we going to get before it manifest? Seldman now, you know, if you’re a multi billion dollar corporation, you khun create huge financial models to make those sorts of decision, but for the average non-profit you have to rely on people’s considered judgment, and so having a simple prioritization process where people are told, you know, consider those three factors and then put your chips the way they should. It ends up being a pretty powerful system for identifying the core risk organization and say those three three factors again, yes, it is it’s, the magnitude of the risk if it comes about the likelihood of the risk coming about and how much lead time you’re going tohave once the risk manifests itself before the full impact hit, okay, that third one could be it could be a day or so? I mean, that could be short term and they could on the end. And that might mean that you would get several rank that risk hyre because you don’t get that much lead. On the other hand, if you’re talking about a legislative change, you might have not in front. Okay? Yes, exactly. Yeah. So you’re aware, of course, weighing the factors, it might be low, like a low, low, low probability, but xero lead time and great magnitude you’re going to rank that thing. Hyre okay. All right, all right. So now we’ve got our ten. We’ve got our top ten. Yeah. Now, do we continue in just the committee and dealing with these? Or do we start to open it up in, like, meeting three or four guard to open it up? Ok, start opening up when you, when you boil that tend the risks down to your poor wrist, then you start opening it up to the rest of your staff by bringing those the list of those risks to your staff meetings and talking about those with your staff asking, ah, you know, for for their reactions tow those risks. Signing those. Risks, too. Particular people tto be dealt with a signing check in dates for when when you’re going to check back, you know that that list of core risks, which is second big tool that risk managers use, they call it a risk register. But that prioritized list becomes the operational judge document that you share with your staff in all staff meetings and and other staff meetings. You also share that up to your board of directors because those are the core risk that the organisation face and the board may want to weigh in on some of those risks. Excellent. Ted. We’re gonna leave it there. That’s a perfect place to ah overviewing on dh, of course, there’s get you could get thie get the format at risk. Hyphen alternatives dot com. You could follow ted at t bilich b i l i c h ted village. Thank you so much for sharing. Uh, tony was great to be here. Thank you so much for having me on my pleasure. We need to take a break. Wittner, cps, anek cerp from the latest testimonial quote, they’re accessible. They care about their clients. End quote, can you say that about your accounting and audit firm? This is another way that wagner goes beyond the numbers remember all the guides and the templates you heard me rattle on about, but they’re valuable. So it’s rattling and it’s valuable rattle. Yes, it was very it was a high tone rattle, good tone, so there’s that but then there’s also they’re accessible. They care let’s make it personal. Talk to eat. Which tomb he’s. The guy you want to talk to? Check out wagner, cpas, dot com he’s a very good guy. Now time for tony’s take two two people have me on their podcasts, it’s their lives joe correct, and i talked about charity registration. Now, first of all, i have to apologize to joe correct, who i’ve always called joe garrick, including what he was on the show. Why he didn’t correct me, i guess. It’s too polite. I don’t know. I think i take notes. Well, as long as they’re not from my wife, i think i’m open so i would. Appreciate it, but joe correct did not. So i have to correct, correct and eso yes, joe, correct, and i did charity registration and i did, launching a planned e-giving program with heather yan tao. Those are my two tricks to trick pony that’s what i know, plan giving and charity registration heimans lots of people say they feel passionate, passionate about their their work you need i love you. The twitter bios air are actually pretty interesting there’s a lot of passion out there, they’re passionate about whatever they do. I don’t know, i like it. I like playing giving i like charity registration let’s just leave it at that let’s not get carried away about passion. Um, so those are the two things i talked about. So the plan the plan giving with heather watching apollo program? Not surprisingly, i talked about charitable bequests that is the place to begin your plan giving program, as you know, and it could be the place to stop. If you’re a smaller, maybe even midsize shop, you don’t want to invest in more and more like infrastructure and further expertise or something it’s not necessary, you can have a very respectable program with charitable bequests start and stop there so you’ll hear that message. And then, of course, we’re going to more detail about starting a plan giving program against marketing tips that i shared with heather et cetera and for charity registration that was the one with job. Correct? Um, you know, the biggest hook with that is your donate. Now button, if you have a donate now button on your website, you’re accepting gifts on your site. That thing is a solicitation in lots of states the day that it goes live, and it doesn’t matter whether anybody in montana ever clicks on it. I don’t know if montana is one states you gotta register is like ten or twelve states where you don’t but let’s just don’t don’t fight the hypothetical, um, it’s it’s a solicitation in a lot of states, the moment it goes live because people in those states can see it so that’s a big hook you donate now button and just generally, of course, charity registration. You need to be registered in each state where you solicit donations, and joe and i went into some of the generalities about registration because it’s a morass. But there are some generalizations you could draw about what the states require in terms of timing and forms and fees, things like that when you get into the weeds of charity registration, then that’s where it’s it’s a morass because every state has its own let’s be polite and say video sync christie’s that they’re their own personalities that must emerge through the charity registration channel so you can’t make a lot of you can’t go into a lot of detail and, you know, like a forty minute podcast, but there are generalizations you can draw, and so we talk about exemptions also exemptions or key, you know, once you find a state that you need to register in because, you know you’re soliciting in that state, the first thing you want to do is look at the exemptions in that state. What do those look like? Because you might very well be exempt. Then, of course, drill down to the details of exemptions and that’s where the morass comes in is in a state where you apply for the exemption or the state, and you have to be approved for the exemption. Or is it a state where? You could just walk away, throw up your hands and go to the next state because you just deem yourself exempt, right? So joe, correct, and i talked about the exemption, of course, too, because, you know, you could save a lot of time if you find that you are exempt. All right. So carrie restoration job, correct planned e-giving beginning of launching a plant e-giving program that’s with heather, you, lando and i’ve got links to those two podcasts, of course, there’s. My video. I have to have my own personality and nuances. So my video, with the links to the those two podcasts where i was a guest, is that tony martignetti dot com live. 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Thanks to your station for carrying us affiliate affections that’s the liveliest or love the podcast pleasantries and the affiliate affections. Now let’s, go to darby, barca and your disaster recovery plan. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fifteen the non-profit technology conference were in day two. We’re in austin, texas, at the convention center and my guest is dar vivir ca she’s vice president of technology for lift a lefty and her workshop topic is avoiding disaster a practical guide for backup systems and disaster recovery planning. Dar welcome, thank you very much. Good to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you this day two we’re highlighting one swag item at ntc per for interview and, uh, i have a double chip biscotti from ah sputnik moment the hashtag is hashtag is sputnik smiles and i’m told that the glasses go with the biscotti, so this is essential. This is this interview’s swag moment. Thank you very much. Sputnik smiles and it goes into the goes into the swag collection. There it is. Okay, door. Um, we need to know some ah, little basic turn. Well, you know what? Before we even get into why is disaster recovery and the related and included back-up so i don’t know if it’s just for gotten ignored, not done well, what inspired the session is a organization i used to work for. We were required by auditors to do a disaster recovery plans. So when it came time for the annual audit, i got out the current disaster recovery plan and went all right, i’m going to go ahead and update this and when i discovered when i read the plan was there were servers, there were eight years old gone for the last eight years server and reading the planet was very clear that what the previous person had done was simply change the date and update the plan for auditors. And as i thought about it and talk to other people, i found that that actually happens a lot people it’s d r is sort of that thing they don’t have time for because no one ever thinks it’ll happen to them, so you push it off and you push it off, and you either just download the template, you know, a template off the internet, and you slap a date on it and basically fill it out just for the auditors. But a lot of organizations never actually think through their disaster recovery, they don’t get into the details, they don’t worry about it, and then when a disaster actually happens to them, they’re sort of stuck. You don’t have a plan that i don’t have a functioning crush on, they’ve never tried it out, so that was what inspired the session and as we dug into it. We we tried to give the thirty thousand foot view because disaster it cover, you know, there’s an entire industry, the deals with technology, disaster recovery. You can spend days on this topic, and obviously we didn’t have days. We had a ninety minute session, so we tried to give the thirty thousand foot view of the practical items you need to pay attention to if you’re not confident in your organisation’s d our plan, if you don’t have a d our plan or if you do and you really don’t, you know, you think it really needs an overhaul that sort of the top ten of items of what you should really be looking at when you’re dealing with disaster recovering backups. And we tried to give some several practical examples myself and the other speaker and andrew, who could not make it this morning of disasters we’ve had to deal with as well as other well known ones. Yeah, okay, do we need some basic language? Miree before we get into the d r disaster recovery topic short jr is one of them. Disaster recovers, often referred to his d r it’s often spoken about in terms of business continuity or bc, which is sort of the larger plan for the entire organisation should’ve disaster strike there’s the others very d are specific things such as our poet recovery point objective that we could talk about your rto, which is recovery time objective there’s very specific language like that for disasters. It’s usually just revert to de ours. So whenever we say d arts disaster recovery okay, we’ll see if we get into those eyes and i could explain to ms wick. Okay, um, all right? So clearly we should have a disaster recovery written, just recovery plan. Even if we’re an organization that small enough that doesn’t have an annual audit, we still should have something in place. Yes. Okay. What belongs in our day? Our plan top ten things. You need a contact list for your team. So if you have a top ten of the d r i do of what should your plan d our plan? You know, it could be anything from a five page outline that just covers the basics. And in in our sessions slides, which i’ve posted in the ntc library gives it some good resource is for doing andy. Our plan, or it could be a, you know, a huge hundred page document, it covers absolutely every aspect of business continuity or something in between it’s going very by organization, and the reality is, if you’re a small organisation with a small team, you might only be able to do the five page outline but that’s better than nothing that’s better than no d our plan or a d r plan that realistically hasn’t been updated in the last ten years, but i would say, you know, the top ten you really should have in your day. Our plan is number one, a contact list for your team members. What is the contact for your team, folks, your business continuity folks, if you normally would get that out of your email and you’re in a disastrous situation, you know you can’t get to your email or, you know, like we’re ever going through, and i want listeners to know that she’s doing this without notes, i it seems very confident that she’s got the hopefully i’ve ever altum in-kind get seven out of seven or eight ten will be ecstatic, but so continue. Oh, but i want to say yeah, as we’re going through, consider two organizations that may not have someone devoted to it. Correct, that is, our listeners are small and midsize non-profits right? They very, very well just all be outsourced or it falls on the executive director’s desk. Excellent point. Would you cover that in the session? So t finish at the top ten contactless three team members contact list for your vendors, a call tree and some sort of communications. How do you tell your organization in your members that you’ve had a disaster? Either your servers have gone down your parts of burst and your communications air underwater? How do you do that? What is your network look like? So? Network diagram process outline how you’re actually going to do your disaster recovery a timeline? How long do you expect these activities to take before you? Khun b live again, a list of systems and applications that you’re going to recover if you’re a large enough or gore, you can afford a hot site what’s called a hot or warm site where you can immediately switch over two other equipment. You know information about that, you’d need that to start your recovery and then also information about your backups. You know, who’s got your back ups? What system are you using? How do you, you know? Get those back. So those air sort of like the top ten things or d our plan should have. Alright, let’s dive intothe process. Ok a bit, because that intrigues me. And hopefully listeners. I think so. I think i have a fare beat on what’s. Interesting. I hope i do. Um, yeah. What? How do we start to think about what our dear process should be? First, you have to think about what all could be a disaster for your organization. A lot of people think about things, you know, earthquakes, hurricane, sandy, hurricane katrina. But it could also be water pipes bursting in your building. That is one of the most common thing. If your server is not properly protected, which a lot aren’t a lot of stuck in closets. Ah, dripping pipe water. We call those water events and that seems to be the most common thing departments encounter is leaking pipes in the building or some sort of a flooding situation. But it could also be an elektronik. Disasters such i’ve worked at an organization that underwent what’s called a ddos attack, which is a distributed denial of service. It took out our entire web presence because malicious hacker hacker went after that’s where there’s millions of right the network and they just flood your network seconds you’re overloaded and yeah, and that’s a disaster situations. So one, why would they attack like that? Why wasn’t non-profit attack malicious? The cp dot organ are attacked out with avon marchenese travon martin decision. Folks attacked our our petition site way. We were able to get it back online, but for a couple of hours. Yeah, we were off line. And that could be considered a disaster situation. For sure. Yeah. How do you help us think through what potential disasters are not even identify them all i think about what could affect your or what you wear. You vulnerable? Some of the things we talked about in the session and we’ll think about it. How would you get back online if the’s various things happen to you are your are your services sort of in the cloud? Do you have servers on site and start there when thinking about your process is what would you have to recover if these various scenarios affected you or with these various scenarios. Scenarios affect you if your website is completely outsourced to a vendor that has de dos protection. Okay, that’s, not a scenario you have to worry about so kind of analyze it and every organs going to be different. You know, if you live on the west coast, you’re probably concerned more about earthquakes than other regions. So it’s it’s going to vary for each organization, what sort of disaster you’re going to be worried about? And then you start getting down into the practical nuts and bolts in terms of who are your disaster recovery people, who’s your team, if you’re really small lorry, that might just be you or as you mentioned before, if you’re using outsourced, manage service provider and your vendors responsible for that, make sure your vendor has a d our plan for you. Ah lot of folks just assume your vendors taking care of that, but when it comes right down to it, do they actually have d our experience? Can they recover your items? Actually sit down and have that conversation? Because so many of the small org’s as you pointed out, do youse outsourced thes days and there’s there’s a lot of manage service providers that specialize in non-profit, but you need to have that conversation. Don’t wait till you’re under a disaster scenario to discover that groups they don’t actually have that experience have that conversation ahead of time. What else belongs in our process? Outline in your process latto outline if you’ve got a another site either a cold, a warmer, hot site or if your stuff is based in the cloud, where would you recover to the hot side is some place you go to drink cold water or hot? Sure, a cold site would be where you’ve got another location let’s say you have a dozen servers at your location, and in the case of, you know, your building being inaccessible or underwater. A cold site would be where you’ve got another location you could go to, but you don’t really have any equipment stage there, but it is another location you can begin operations out if that’s a cold sight there’s nothing ready to go, but you’ve got a sight a warm site would be where you sort of have a skeletal equipment there it’s far less capacity than you’re currently at, but you’ve got something there it’s not live, but you got stuff ready to go that you can restore to and get going. And a hot site is where you can flip over immediately. Your live replicating to somewhere else, it’s ready to go? It might not be full capacity, so it might not have, you know, full blown data line size that you’re used to might not have your full range of service, but it is live and you could switch over near instantaneously. That’s a hot site, ok, eso you’d want that in your process, and you’re going to want to think about what are you restoring and that’s where we get into the backups? What comes first and that’s, where you start getting into terms such as recovery point, objective and recovery time objective those air to very common d our terms recovery time is how far back are you recovering, too? And what does that mean for each system? So if it’s your donorsearch system that’s probably fairly critical, you want a recent restore of that? If it’s a system that doesn’t change very much, maybe a week ago restores okay for that and sorry that’s recovery point objective recovery time objective is how long does it take you to get back online after a disaster? You know, ifyou’ve got to download your data from an external source. Has anyone thought about how long that’s going to take you to get the data back? Is it going to take you fifteen hours or three days? So it’s in a lot of folks don’t think about that ahead of time, they just go oh, you know, we’ll we’ll pull it back down if we have a disaster, but they don’t think about instead of their nice normal data communications, they’re going to be on a tiny d s l line trying to pull down one hundred fifty gigs of information and it’s going to take a week to get it back down. I have to say you’re very good about explaining terms and thank you, proper radio. We have jargon jail? Yes, we try not teo transcend. You haven’t transgressed cause your immediate about explaining exactly what recovery point river and recovery time objectives are. It could be very confusing, you know, if you don’t understand the terms in tech, you can be confusing what folks are talking about, and that was one of the the focus is of our station session is making it less confusing and being very practical, practical about what you can or cannot do. And if folks go and look at our slides, they’ll see on several of the items we did a good, better best, and we tried to talk about that all throughout the session because we realized again for a small ork or, you know, even a large order that just doesn’t have the resources to devote to it. You might not be able to do best practice, but you could at least try a good practice that would be better than nothing. And then so we do a good, better best for each each type of thing like what does a good d our plan look like? Versace best day our plan and at least try and get to that good, because at least you’ll have something and it could be a continuum where you try and improve it along the way. But you’ve got to start somewhere it’s better than just ignoring it, which is what happens. At a lot of places. Got to take a break. Tell us credit card and payment processing. You know these people check out the video at tony dot m a slash tony tello’s that will start to explain to you the long tail of revenue that you can earn from. Tell us when you get companies to look att tello’s. Let tell us look at their processing fees. Then they switch to tell us you get fifty percent of the revenue forever. Tony dahna slash tony. Tell us now back to your disaster recovery plan with dar do we need to prioritize what what’s mission critical. And, yes, we can work with out for a time. Yes. How do we determine that? Definitely. We talk about that in terms of its not just a knight each decision either because we may think that the emails the most critical thing out there, but development may see the donor system as the most critical out there program might think that the case management system is the most critical out there. So you finance wants their account. They want their accounting system up. Obviously you’ve got to have an order in which you bring these things up. You’re probably not gonna have enough staff for bandwith or, you know, equipment to bring everything back online, so there needs to be and hopefully your executive team would be involved in deciding for the organization what is most critical in what order are you going to bring those things up? And that needs to be part of your d r plan? Because otherwise, if you’re in a disaster scenario, you’re not going to know where to start and there’s going to be a lot of disagreement of who starts where so you guys need to decide on the order, okay, we still have a few minutes left, but what more can we say about d r and related back-up that’s not going to wait till i’m back up because i think we could do a little bit in terms of d r i would say the key points on backups are check them because a lot of time, yes, monthly or quarterly, at least is anyone looking at your back-up back-up work-life one of the scenarios that we talked about that actually happened to my co speaker, andrew, was that their server room flooded and it hit their razor’s edge server, which is their entire c, m, s, c r, e, m and donorsearch system, and they thought it was backing up, but no one had actually check the backups in the last two months, and it was on, and it was not s o in terms of back-up just typical, you know, pay attention to the maintenance. What do you backing up? Has anyone checked it? And again, if you’re using a manage service provider, make sure if they’re responsible for for looking at your backups of managing them, make sure they’re doing that, you know, double check and make sure that they understand that your backups are critical and they can’t just ignore the alerts about your backups. You know, you don’t want to be in the unpleasant situation of three of our servers just got flooded. We need the data and discover nobody was backing it up. It ain’t exactly okay. All right. Anything else? You wanna leave people about back-up before we go to the broader diar? No, i think that’s. Good for those were the highlights for it. All right. So back to the disaster recovery. What more can we say about that. There are going to be a lot of watches if you’re in a large d our situation and so one of things we stress is one getting down into the details of your d our plan before disaster hits, you see, if you’ve never thought about how you’re actually going to do the restores air, actually, how you’re going to be rebuild those servers, you need two ahead of time. A lot of folks never practice have a fire drill. I hate fire drill, but and you don’t have a live fire drills in this case, it might be a live fire drill. You don’t want to have that, so you should make some effort to practice, even if it’s just something small, you know, trying to restore one server. I mentioned in this session that i was put in a situation years ago at johns hopkins university, where we were required to have verification of live tr practice. So i was put in a room that had a table, a telephone, a server, and we were carrying two laptops, and we couldn’t come out of the room, and so we had completely restored our domain. We had a set. Of backups on the thumb drive and added the second laptop to that domain improve that we had restored the domain, and an independent person that was not connected to our department was monitoring to make sure we had done it and we had to prove it, and that was an eye opening experience is as experienced as i was doing that i’d never done it live, and it took me three tries to do it so that’s, right? Encourage folks to really try and practice this stuff ahead of time and get down into the you know, the weeds on there on their d our planet on also to think about it. You weren’t fired because way, john no, no, no. I actually like too much john soft. No, we did complete it within the time frame, but we were a little startled when we discovered that we thought we knew how to do it first time out. And we kept making little mistakes. There were two of us and they’re doing it. And we were surprised ourselves that we thought, oh, of course we know this. This is not a problem, but no, we were making little mistakes. Because we didn’t have the documentation down, a specific is it needed to be, and so that was a very eye opening experience. There’s a couple of their d r gotchas we talked about, which is crossed, people don’t think about the cost ahead of time. How much is going to cost to get you that data? Back in the instance of my co presenter who had the damaged drives, they weren’t expecting a near ten thousand dollars cost to recover those drives, but that’s what happened when they didn’t have the backups? They had to take those hard drives to a data recovery place, and the price tag was nearly ten thousand dollars. Dealing with insurance is another big one that people don’t think about having to account for all of the equipment that was lost, and dealing with that insurance morass often gets dumped on the auntie department in a small organization. There’s not, you know, a legal department that’s going to deal with that it’s going to be you so to, you know, kind of talk to your insurance provider ahead of time and see what all you have to deal with in a disaster situation, so you don’t get an unpleasant surprise if you’re ever, in one a cz well, on the insurance topic, just are you covered? Exactly what what, exactly, is your equipment covered, and what do you have to do with that? In terms of accounting for it, if you suffer a disaster and you know the gooch is, we get so a couple of minutes, if if oh, about conscious. Trying to think about somebody we don’t hold back on provoc video, i think some of the other ones that we covered in their thick wit mint again to the cost, how much is it going to cost you? Two gets new equipment and did you account for that when you were doing your d our plan and a time to recover? A lot of folks don’t understand how long it may take them to do a recovery and also deciding what is important and what is not important, not just in terms of what should be restored in what order, but in terms of practical things, do you really need to restore your domain? Er, or could you just start over from scratch if your domain only contains maybe fifty accounts and doesn’t have any associated servers faster for you to just start over and just recreate the domain immediately? Especially if a lot of your emails in office three, sixty five or google maps, you could reconnect it very quickly. So, you know, thinking about more practical gotsch is like that that you should think about have time, you know, obviously it’s that’s the best practice to think? Of all these details, and he realized folks may not be able to, so we provided someone sheets and some samples of them of just quick, yes or no questions and thinking this through and things to think about and where will we that is not notice provoc radio has a professional sound i don’t know about ntcdinosaur ten, but that was a way over there. They’re on their own. They can come to us for expertise if they if they need to. But, uh uh, now i messed myself up because i ask you about something. What were you just talking about? How much? How long will actually take you to recover things? And whether or not you should practically skipped recovering something because it might be faster to rebuild it. Okay, i have a follow up to that my smart ass humor, maybe lose it. All right, so why did you leave us with one take away? Dror back-up the session was a little bit misnamed because technically, you’re not going to avoid a disaster you really can’t in many cases, you’re not gonna avoid the flood. You’re not going to avoid the earthquake if you’re in that. Region so you need to plan on how to deal with it. So it’s more like avoiding avoiding your d are becoming the disaster because you’re not going to avoid the disaster itself, so you might as well plan for it. Outstanding. Thank you very much. Door. Thank you much. Darby america vice president of technology for lift. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference two thousand fifteen. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. Next week date your donor’s returns with jonah helper. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner c p a’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream tony dot m a slash tony tell us our creative producers claire meyerhoff family boots is the line producer show social media is by sirs and chavez and this great music is by scott stein with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the odd. They’re ninety five percent go out and be great. Kayman you’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Nothing. Cubine are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor ing. Sometimes the potentiality tune in every tuesday line to ten eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c. Me, are you feeling unhappy with your body, shape or size? Ever feel out of control with food? 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