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Nonprofit Radio for August 17, 2018: Branding & Focus and Attention

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James Wu, Kristyna Jones & Rhiannon Tasker: Branding
How do you get people to care about your brand and your cause when there’s so much noise out there? It helps to be inclusive and authentic. Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference (18NTC) explains how. They’re James Wu, brand consultant; Kristyna Jones with Brothers Empowered 2 Teach; and Rhiannon Tasker from The Public Theater.

 

 

Steve Rio: Focus and Attention
Steve Rio has been researching the intersection of mindfulness, creativity and productivity. He’s CEO of Briteweb.

 

 

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host today’s show is dedicated to my mom. She would have been eighty five today would have been her eighty fifth birthday. Hi, mom. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with zoho no sis, if you made me sick with the idea that you missed today’s show co-branding how do you get people to care about your brand and your cause? When there’s so much noise out there, it helps to be inclusive and authentic. Our panel from the non-profit technology conference eighteen ntc explains how they’re james woo brand consultant christina jones with brothers empowered to teach and ran in tasker from the public theater and focus and attention, steve rio has been researching the intersection of mindfulness, creativity and productivity. He’s ceo of bright webb on tony’s steak, too, baby boomers, we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com bye tello’s durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four four nine, nine nine here is branding from the non-profit technology conference welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc that’s, a non-profit technology conference in new orleans hosted by the non-profit technology network interview like all our eighteen ntcdinosaur views is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests are james wou christina jones and ran in tasker. James is an independent brand consultant. Christina is co founder and ceo. Seo of brothers empowered to teach by here in new orleans. Andre hannan tasker is donor communications project manager at the public theater. Welcome. Thank you for having a pleasant have all three of you. Your workshop topic is branding for the apocalypse very ominous how to get people to care about your cause when everything is horrible. Okay, eyes the horrible that we’re, uh, is part of the horrible that we’re thinking about the current political environment and how there’s something new every couple of hours. Do you like he’s a crisis? Yes, that that is exactly what we’re talking. About that was certainly that’s the driver of the conversation and that i remember one day, you know, logging off twitter for about thirty minutes, coming back on and literally, there are six new horrible things that happened that we’re very much tied to the current political climate in the country we just learned a couple hours ago that paul ryan is not going to run for for the house in wisconsin. Well, there you go. Speak something about what’s going on on dh there’s news like that very, very often. Yeah, our challenge is to stand out, okay? Apocalyptic? Yeah, we have an apocalyptic e i mean, i think that the khan, the environment that we’re in right now is very divided. And no matter how quickly things change and how every how fast news is happening, it still feels like we’re in a very sort of divided world in the way that we’re feeling after post election, especially no matter what side you’re on it’s feeling very divided and very sort of there’s a lot of tension right now, and so it feels a little bit of tense and uncomfortable sometimes, okay, but, kristina, we can’t overcome your your organ has done it. I guess you’ve got some lessons to share. Yes, i think that we have overcome that because one of the things that we always do, regardless of what’s happening politically in the world stay true to who we are is an organization. So, you know, part of you know, your branding is sort of interpreting that message for what’s happening in the world as long as it’s a part of who you are. Okay, so, is that your first advice for rising above this noise is staying true. Yes, you are. I think so. I think what happens when we have these, you know, something, something that happens with non-profit sometimes is that wear always putting out a fire, right? We’re responding to a crisis. And in responding to those crises, sometimes we can lose a part of who we are or staying kind of on message of what we’re trying to accomplish or what our mission is. And so i think it was sort of like being i think i used on the panel today is like being a bully and a storm, right? So that’s, my part might take. Okay, so your panel’s already done. You’re relaxing them. That’s. Right, guys, take it easy on us. All right? Congratulations. Yeah, this is fun. This is not from radio. No, no, you got yours here. Anything okay? And i gather from the session description. Christina and rhiannon. You’ve taken two different approaches in terms of politics. Hyre christina apolitical. Pretty much staying mostly apolitical and reaction. Uh, using the arts to be political, using theater to be political. Yeah. Anything, something about the public theater as we try and represent all sort of views were opened everyone and we want to tell all stories and especially in our branding, we did the same thing where we said, very true to who we were as an organization and the urgency that people are few going in the community in the power of storytelling, to sort of tell people to share different perspectives and the power that storytelling really has. Teo help people feel like they understand a different viewpoint than their own, whether that’s, depending on all sides of the political spectrum, i mean the public theater being in new york city, we do tend to lean a certain way, but we try toe be as open just all, all voices in all stories on dh, hopefully help other people understand, especially as i said, we’re divided right now, helping understand other people and under perspective helps sort of refused attention and help people come in issues in a different way. James, i think it’s pretty well recognized that storytelling is critical. We’re not a theater group that has a stage literally, yeah, how can we effectively, compellingly is better. Tell tell, have the storytelling or telling ourselves yeah, yeah, that is a great question and one question, that question that doesn’t have fans, we have to have a fan, i have know that we’re seeing a james now you both way or lindsay is a small town, there was astra, everybody about each other’s people and your, uh, your home i’m leaving now way that was legitimate, okay, just kind of make up having any family. So how do we do this compelling? You know, that’s a great question is actually question that came up in a in our panel conversation today from the audience and ran and answered it beautifully, and i’ll try my best kind of encapsulate her great response in that. At the end of the day, yes, we might not be affiliated with an organization that is in the arts or in the future, or use this storytelling as the primary medium or platform. But the work that were in in the nonprofit world is all about human stories, right, it’s all about change and transformation within humans and communities that they dwell in, that we serve. And so i think at the end of the day, you know, you might not have art as kind of the channel for telling these stories. But the better you can get at telling very human stories that connect to people at a very human emotional level. I think that’s, where you get really, really, really power. How do you do drill down into that? Getting that making that connection with with the leader of the viewer? S o i think one of the mistakes that a lot of organizations do is they get caught up in kind of explaining their model like this is our theory of change. And this is here all of our programs, right? We invest in building community, we invest in entrepreneurs, whatever it is way train leaders instead of thinking about why, like, why do you exist? What is your purpose? What is your reason for being right? If you can start there, then you can begin inspire people in a way that if you start talking about your products and programs, you might lose them. Right? So if you can start with why you exist, really drill down and get to your core purpose. I think anyone can really identify with that. Begin. Teo, resonate with that message. It’s. Time for a break pursuant the round up the fund-raising round up it’s called the pursuing e-giving outlook. They took all the latest fund-raising reports. Boiled it down to just what you need to know. Plus they did a webinar on it. And you can watch the archive of that it’s, an ensemble piece, the content paper and the webinar both. Are on the listener landing page that is at tony dot m a slash pursuant remember the capital p for please. Now, back to branding. Cristina’s doing a lot of nodding. Yeah, i what’s your way, you know, brothers and power to teach, unlike the public fears only four years old, right? Um and so we’re still kind of a startup, but when we first started, it was very much like, this is our model. We have these three steps. This is what we do, and people would be like dahna and so when we started telling the story about why we do the work and why we think the way we do, it matters, it was much easier for people to connect. And so i think that that’s really, really important and you’re trying to get black men to go into teaching, right? Right? Education. That’s right, brothers? Yeah. Weather’s empowered to teach brothers and power to teach and sister bras and power to teach. But, yes. Okay. Okay. Uh, and you’re you feel like you’re creating a lot of boats and a lot of conversation around your mission. How? Yeah, on the way of rising above you, get talking about you? Yeah, i mean, uh, one of the things that i said today was that, like, show up, right? So we show up to lots of different things, and we show up in lots of different ways. So we participate in lots of activities going on around town related to the issues that we work on, but also on larger issues like there’s, an initiative in new orleans called forward together politicians non-profits people who work in the private sector come together, so we go to those things. We’re all constantly wearing a b, right? So that’s one of your share, one of the ways we show up the every way is that we know on your shoulder turned my shoulder way. We have young people who are very much engaged in the work that we do, and so they do a lot of videos for us. They do a lot of tweeting for us. They we do a lot of social activities, so people see us collectively together, and they’re like, what, that beaming? What hashtag real bro teach? What does that mean? So that’s how we really driven people to think about it, brandon, how about the public theater. How are you creating buzz conversation about about the pub. I mean, the public theater is a definitely a growing brand, especially in new york city. We had hamilton, which was like a huge, huge threat. Hamilton before was on broadway. Yeah, we created hamilton here the way we did the workshops and, like, sort of helped. It could be that show. And then we did the first production. That was the production that moved to broadway. So we had a lot of sort of, like buzz from that show. And i were now in the place of like, okay, now that hamilton’s sort of moved on, continuing those conversations and keeping us in the forefront of people’s mind as a theatrical in student as well. Civic inge institution. We hold a lot of talk are that are hosted the republic form team at our home in astor place. We also were doing them a delacorte. We hold other sort of initiatives. We did. Voter registration was a big thing. We had a table on our lobby on bistro. Participated with other non-profit geever okay. Interesting voter registration. That’s. Um, that’s. Not something that intuitively i would. Link with with a theater? Yeah, it was initiative that was started by believing playwrights horizons. They got theaters throughout the country to set up voter registration foods for when people came and saw shows they could register for vote while they’re like waiting in line or internet during intermission or after the show. And the idea is just to help people engage civically within their communities in the country by voting, and we had a huge turnout. We also did some pushes on our social media and through emails, and we got a lot of people registered to vote and it’s our way of sort of helping people just be active within our community and engage socially not just with the conversations that we’re having with the work we’re resenting, but just like in the real world outside of what’s on our stage is james, you’re our resident consultant. How generally, how can we create conversation and buzz around our work? I mean, i think we just heard some great examples, but beyond those, yeah, i think it does at the end of the day, come back to having a clear sense of who you are, but also who your audience is and we talked a lot today about authenticity, right? Yeah, doing here too, yeah, allowed on non-profit radio on and i think the theme of authenticity is something that we keep the three of us keep coming back to and is a common thread in all of our work. But, you know, like rian instead of beginning organization that’s yours and organizations that tend to shift their messaging or change, they are in response to what’s happening the world today without remaining true to kind of their core purpose or kind of their their identity. I think there’s a real danger, they’re kind of losing sight of what you’re all about and why you exist. I think when you have a clear sense of who you are and more importantly, how your audience connects with that, then that kind of authenticity shines through no matter what is happening around you. And i’m sure these to concede say more about that. Yeah, i think a lot of the questions we have today, no matter what the question was, are always kind of brought back to that authenticity and who you are and sticking true to who you are. Whether it is like a post election end of your campaign where there’s a little different urgency within it, it’s still about those fundamental things that make your organization what it is people are going to see right through you if you’re trying to, like, do something urgent, that doesn’t feel authentic or real because they don’t want to give money to an organization that’s not going to do something with it, that’s what that is fundamental to who they are, and so the public theater and, like we have always stuck true to those values that were theater of by and for the people on that culture belongs to everyone one and this is we are places, storytelling, and those are the things that are important to us and just framing it in the way of the moment of it, whether it’s urgency or what, no matter what it is, it is it’s still, those things at every question we got today, we kept coming back to that authenticity and who you are, because, christina, you’re not only alienating your mission, but you’re also alienating your core supporters, right? You’re awful, haley expecting work for you, you and your employees, your staff, they have certain expectations. Now we’re adjusting just because there’s tha multi in the in the political economy, right? Exactly. I mean, we think of our brand is a person, right? So one of the activities we did when we did our brand refresh was okay. His brothers and power to teach was a person who are they use a person? This ah, james is a user persona, or i think that’s part of it certainly part of it and so, you know, kept coming up with all the things that we already do that sort of reinforce who we are as a person, so we’re twenty something creative, collaborative, fresh and fashionable group what we read, what we listen to way to our podcast, you know, all about those things that connects our brand to people who want to hear about the work we’re doing in more detail, and it translates into the photos we take into our website. All of those things signify that you think, tony, you just used an interesting word a minute ago, and then there was expectation, and i think, that’s one thing that we actually didn’t talk a lot about. Directly today but certainly was a theme that i see woven in a lot of the work, especially the tactics that both of your organizations have used in the past year and can be something as small as the public theater in there. You’re an fund-raising campaign last year instead of their typical just we’re just going toe send email after email appeal at the end of the year asking for our audience to give us money they actually hand wrote notes on postcards thanking people for their contributions for their engagement, a very analog old school approach in this very hyper, you know, social media, digital world, and they saw a huge bump in terms of kind of hoping to see a big bump in terms of renewal sze but did see a big bump in terms of engagement, justin, based in response to that tactic, which so that kind of analog very old fashioned, if you will approach really, really cut through the clutter when you’re just getting bombarded on social media or email today and similarly with brothers empire to teach, i think one of the things that was really interesting when they were going through their brand refresh. They had an exercise where there, you know, looking at something as mundane as colors which should our color palette be that represents our visual identity. It’s a very standard part of any branding exercise. But the way that they thought about colors was really provocative for me. And i should probably just, like christina tell the story herself. But essentially, you know what? What i heard was correct me if i’m wrong that yeah, you tell us. Thank you. S r color palette is soft. So its environs so it’s yellow, teal of, like, a lavender. And i grayce right. And the reason for those colors is because we did this today we had all feel like you’re hearing. Yes, you’re going down going down with you. Eventually wei had everybody close their eyes and say and think to themselves, not necessarily share like you think of a young black man. What do you see? Right? And so when they open their eyes and said the reason these colors are the colors they are because they signify liveliness and collaboration and nurturing. So a softening of the idea of a young black man is because we want people to see young men as nurturers, right as having potential to nurture so that’s why our color palette is the way it is. We talked about this idea of i used to come from the international development world in this this expression or phrase club poverty porn. But if you’ve heard that but it’s kind of this, you know, in our imagery we either really negative imagery that’s very exploitive in an effort to raise money and awareness, right? So malnourished kids and sub saharan african with flies on their faces, right? That kind of creates this sympathy or pity. On the other hand, the pendulum has swung in the complete opposite direction in the last five, ten years, where everyone uses just images filled with happiness and optimism and joy. And i feel like there needs to be a recall calibration again and something that’s kind of in between that prevent presents a mork, nuanced complete hole and maybe complex picture of what the issues are that we’re dealing with in the communities that we’re serving. I think that there’s a real danger and kind of dumbing down your message rebrand or simplifying it to say, this is this is who we are, this is what we’re all about and it’s it’s kind of playing into what people expect right versus some little what brothers in power to teach duitz he said, how do we create an image that is more about fostering this nurturing environment? And then also in some of the photographs, you see it’s, like, sometimes it’s really struggle on diversity that you see sometimes it’s real celebration enjoy and just the complete humanity that’s presented kind of a whole human being, i think that’s um, something that we don’t see enough of today, christine what’s a home run for you is that when when someone decides to and embark on a career in education is that i like the grand slam home run and a stadium fans would be if a young man starts with us and doesn’t want to teach, and by the time he leaves he’s like you know what i’m going to teach. So that’s that’s a grand slogan, the basic home run is basically a young man who should, who may want to teach what isn’t really sure and decides to teach, but we’ve had a lot of success with guys who had no intention of teaching because only three percent of all the teachers in the entire country are black men, they don’t see themselves and teaching, so the idea that they now see themselves with the teacher or working in education period is like, phenomenal, really, yeah, and you talked a bit about inclusive hyre say more about that in terms of the public’s brand. How do you feel being inclusive sets you? Aside from competition in new york city, the public theater, it’s one of our fundamental sort of missions is tio provide theatre to everyone no matter what background you are. And i mean, if we dio free shakespeare in the park where we give one hundred thousand tickets, world class shakespeare every summer, all for free heart is held to get to former new york come on, we’re making i mean that’s the thing that they are hard to get, people have to wait in line for hours. So what? We’re taking steps to make it easier to get tickets for everyone. So we do distributions in all five boroughs. We like what they’re like throughout the week we’ll be, we’ll be in queens one. Week will be in brooklyn will be in the bronx and staten island dahna distributing tickets there so that they don’t have to come into the city, wait in line for hours, maybe, or maybe not, get a ticket and then wait until the show in the evening. It’s a more accessible moment for them to get tickets there. We also have a digital online lottery so people could do it from work or from where they are. We do a lottery downtown, it are after a place home. So again, you’re not waiting in line. You can come enter the lottery, get john, be quick, we so we are trying to you offer more and more opportunities to help like to help expand who is seeing the theater versus the people who are able to write in line. We also do the mobile unit, which takes shakespeare to prisons, homeless shelters and community centers do out all five boroughs, and we do that twice a year. Once a year, we’ve now expanded twice a year, their twenty stopped tour, and then they come downtown and dio a three week, three week run at our theater and astor place and all those tickets are also free inclusion. Yeah, well, i just want to talk about. No, but the wraps. Okay, what else could we talk about you, you had your your workshop. We’ve got another five minutes or so together. What happened? We touched on anybody that we want to. You did ninety minutes. I know. We’re all talked out questions, maybe questions you got that we haven’t talked about yet. Well, one thing that that we didn’t that didn’t come up, that some folks ask me after our panel was, you know, it’s it’s interesting because you have a very founder lead organising your small organization, you’re young organization upmifa on the contrary, public theatre has been around for sixty five years, almost and their founder is not, you know, directly involved anymore, but oscar eustis who’s been there for how long? It was ten years when i started so twelve, thirteen years he’s kind of an iconic institution in another sound. And so how do you think about brandon relation too? The founders personality, and if you work in an organization that doesn’t have a strong founder with that really influences that culture than then what do you do? I don’t know if you guys have thoughts on that. Well, i’ve worked in no book fired-up buy-in my previous career, i was investment banker, community development and one organisation i work for went through a big brand refresh the founder had long been gone and what they did. Internally was sort of theater does with the stash and sent out a survey. Like, who are we way say we are. Who do you think we are? Wait, you think we should be? And they did a whole entire brand refresh based on sort of who’s in the building. Now, who works for the company now? Why did they come to this place to work here? And i think they did a great job rebranding themselves. Enterprise community partners. I haven’t looked at co-branding lately, but a few years ago, they did that. I thought that was a really great way to do it when you don’t have a strong founding founders culture anymore. The founder has, you know, your organization has evolved over the years. You’ve had another executive director, but you still want to stay kind of truth to your original mission. I thought that that was a great way, actually. Survey surveyed the staff surveyed the stand. Why are you here? Right? Right. Right. And i guess you know another question. Taking that a step further that i get all the time. Okay? We were sold. We should go through a branding exercise. That brand refresh. If you will, how do we get the leaders of our organization on board? How do we get the entire staff on board to really buy into this? So this doesn’t just feel like a bunch of pretty words that we stick in a mark getting drawer, but has riel impact on how we show up in every department throughout the organization every single day. So how do we get that buy-in that’s my question, i don’t know, i mean, you guys are both live and breathe this every single day, and i’m happy to share my thoughts, but i mean it’s, the public theater is such a deeply rooted mission and oscar, whose artistic director really lives and breathes the mission of the public and truly the people who work there want to be there. I want to be there for the mission of the public it’s, you know, it’s non-profit you want to be there for that, you you want to be there to help give thousands of people free tickets in the park and the work that goes behind it and to create good work. So we are kind of in a a very lucky situation and that we are very, very rooted in our mission and our brandon who we are on it, it stuns from having a strong artistic director leader who any speech he gives any from, like a staff meeting, agreed to the delicate and opening night of shakespeare in the park. It is so rooted and who we are and so rooted in the deep belief of who we are every so it really helps everyone in the organization really get behind it because you know that you’re working towards something not for our leader believes and i also that’s something that we believe in a cz group and as a theatre, so we’re kind of we’re lucky and that our way it’s so embedded in us is a public you don’t know, a lot of cedars don’t necessarily even have that theater is not something that people think of in these huge, huge, deeply founded missions and values and big we have brought their broad and really lofti of culture belongs to everyone and theatre should be free for all and all those things that but there are things to aspire to and there things that we all are working towards. Is an organization, james, if we don’t enjoy that luxury that the public has yeah, you yeah, i think one of the biggest things that i tried it teach my clients is that when they’re going through branding, exercise, it’s really critical to bring the entire organization on board throughout the process, right? There’s, nothing worse than going through a six month rebranding and the leadership says tata, we’re done look at our new brand and he says, what, like, how come i didn’t have my how come i wasn’t hurt happened? I didn’t get a chance to weigh in or at least share my opinions or and so i think that’s a really, um, the fine line between, you know, a successful branding and co-branding that ends up failing one of the i think it comes down to when you’re when you’re developing a mission or purpose statement, if you’re developing core values for the organization that you don’t fall into the trap, which is choosing empty words, right? We’ve also core values like empathy, innovation, honesty, well, who’s, who’s not going to be honest, like, who wants to be the opposite of that, right? So those kind of be empty, meaningless core values. How can you create a set of values that really change the way we show up to work every single day? And so one of the things that i do is my clients is after we have this branding, we bring everyone along throughout the process there entirely bought in, we say, okay, now we have this new set of values. Now we have these new purpose. Maybe we’ve written a manifesto. Really? Look at these words break up into teams. So finance department, accounting department marketing department operations team i want you each to go and meet and look at these words and really understand what they mean and have a conversation about what’s going to change. What you going to start doing mohr of today that you’re not doing enough of what you going to stop doing as a result of the language on the words at the end of the day, a lot of rebranding tze come down to a language and words and the intention that you put into those really can go a long way. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there, ok? Alright, right they are james woo, independent brand. Consultant christina jones, co founder, ceo of brothers empowered to teach rehan in tasker dahna communications project manager at the public theater. Thank you all. Thank you all very much things interview scheduled sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donor-centric software for now. Non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit radio coverage of eighteen. Auntie si. We need to take a break. Regular cps, please talk to eat. Which tomb? You heard him on the four hundredth show. Plus he’s. Been a guest on the show a couple of times. Check out the firm. Of course. Do your research, then talk to e tell him what you need. He’ll tell you whether wagner can help you with your accounting needs. No pressure, all professional. Got to do your due diligence. Get started at wagner cps dot com now, tony’s, take two. I’m paying attention to baby boomers. Millennials get a lot of attention. Of course on dh that’s deserved. That could be a very, very important part of your fund-raising prospect pool course. Depending on your mission, they’ll be donors for fifty or sixty years. I am not saying ignore millennials at all we’ve covered in here on the show many times what the trends involving millennials, etcetera and will continue to but that i don’t mean that is the universal no gator along with that my consulting, and hence my focus is on baby boomers. They’ll be around because i’m one and i’ll be around for a good forty years. Actually, i’ll be around for another forty four because i’m living two hundred so they’ll be around there’s a lot of wealth in the baby boomer generation, they have proven to be generous with their wealth, lots of reasons to pay attention to baby boomers and to promote and market the state and retirement plan gifts to them, as well as paying attention a millennial’s again, this is not an either or depending on your mission and depending on the makeup of your constituents, they may both very well fit in. Okay, my video saying a little more on that is at tony martignetti dot com it’s my pleasure to welcome steve rio to the show. He is founder and ceo of bright webb, a social impact consultancy delivering strategy, branding and digital. He aims to build the world’s most flexible, engaged and efficient company. He’s, an expert in exponential organizations, remote and distributed teams and workforce, wellness and performance. He consults with impact leaders to reimagine their organizational strategies, systems and company cultures. The companies that bright webb b r i t e web dot com and he’s at steve rio. Welcome to the show, steve. Hi, how are you? I’m very well. How you doing? I’m doing great. Good. Were you calling in from? I’m calling from my home office on bowen island in british columbia, canada. Wonderful bowing island. How far offshore is bowen island? Probono island is the closest island to vancouver. It’s about a twenty minute fairy. But it’s a small little community about thirty, five hundred people. So just a small, small island. Okay. And you’re a good, uh, i don’t know. Six, seven thousand miles from new york city. That’s about right. That’s. All right. Right now. Yeah. Okay. That’s where i’m sitting so, uh, okay. It doesn’t matter who got twenty. Eighteen. It hasn’t mattered for a long time. Okay. Um, you’ve been you’ve been spending a lot of time learning about researching the science of focus and attention. What? What? What brought you to this? Yeah. So, i mean, i’ve been thinking about this, i guess, as a leader of a company of about five years ago, we moved to more of a remote model where we’re kind of embracing twenty first century practices around, you know, organizing people, so we started allowing people to work remotely and and travel while working and doing things like that. And then a couple years ago, we launched a distributed workforce of freelancers, so we have freelancers in twenty five cities around the world now and, you know, over that time, one of what i’ve learned for knowledge workers there’s an increasing onus on the individual to think about how they manage their time, their work have it how we organize our offices, whether those air, virtual or physical spaces and just really thinking about, you know, the capacity and capabilities of our teams. And so i guess even for myself thinking about how to maximize productivity and howto really achieved the most impact i can have in the work we do it’s become a key part of my thinking on howto really maximize their teams. So it’s been a few years now where i’ve been focused pretty heavily. On this subject did you used to have a more traditional office where all our most people worked in one place? Yeah, i guess that would have been about four years ago was when we started making that transition. We were we were working out of an office. So we have an officer, vancouver. But we serve clients mainly in the united states. So we have an office in new york as well. So as soon as we had two officers that’s when we started to think about howto have you no more of a distributed approach toe work. And so four years ago, we started making that transition. Okay, i see what drove you to that. All right. So you could have come to the studio. You you could’ve visited the new york office and come to our studio here. That’s, right? But it happens to be summertime and summer time on the island is pretty good. So i understand how you could be with you in new york. That’s okay? We tried, tio. We tried to, but the schedules were just, you know, i’m not in new york all the time, either. I’m, uh, i spend a lot. Of time in north carolina, where the beach yes, i have a beach house there, and the beach is also very nice. During the summer, you might have heard rumors to that effect the ocean and beach life. Very nice in the summer months. Um, yeah, okay, so you’re and you’re interested not only in the not only interested, but you’ve been spending time researching not only the conscious aspects of this, but unconscious earth. Yeah, well, so to me, there’s sort of a couple of key components. One thing is how we organize our time. You know, i think about this from if we’re thinking about the social sector, which is who our clients are in a lot of who i consult with and work with. I think about the capacity of our teams because i think we have pretty severe limitations on budgets on operational budget specifically and thinking about howto increase the capacity of our workforce. And i think one of the ways we can do that is by really looking at the way we structure our time and the way we you know what kind of habits we reinforce in the office place and i think first off, there’s the component of just getting focused, work done and thinking about distractions, thinking about how we’re implementing technology and the sort of core components of that, i think a second component is around creativity and around creating space and allowing people actually have the time to think big and come up with creative solutions, which doesn’t happen in a busy, distracted work environment. And when you’re right in front of technology all the time, it kind of requires ah level of space to be created for people and so let’s. Ah, let’s, get some ideas. How do you how do you create that space? So i think creating spaces, it comes with first off and understanding what it means, you know, what’s interesting, like, you know, we’re starting to work with universities in canada as well as the u s and thinking about how we start to educate people from a younger age about what it means to be productive. I think we have, you know, his knowledge workers. Most of us are knowledge workers in today’s world who were working in front of a computer, and we’re creating documents or information products or things like that. Were a lot of communications, so oftentimes we feel like productivity is time spent in front of the computer o r on our devices and and i think it’s really important to realize that productivity and creativity comes also when you create space, when you go for a walk, when you take breaks when you actually disengage from the, you know, actual document creation or the actual work you’re doing and take time to process what’s happened so what’s interesting is that we have a conscious mind in a subconscious mind, and, for instance, when we learn new information, um, about six percent of that goes into our conscious mind, which is immediately available, and the other ninety four percent goes in our conscious mind, and that takes time to process and that’s where we kind of put things together and think that’s where correlation happened, that’s where true creativity happens. So, you know, i think most people would, you know, relate to the idea of the best ideas might come to them in the shower when they’re doing the dishes or when they’re, you know, doing some task that requires very little cognitive effort and that and that’s when our creativity strikes, and so what i what i try and teach my team and what i talked to people about in our workshops and the work we’re doing is about think rethinking what productivity’s means and how creating space in your days and you’re weak can actually be a very productive way to be a more creative contributor to your work. This reminds me of the dark days when i practiced law, and in those days we didn’t have why didn’t you have a computer at my desk? We’re talking about nineteen, ninety four, nine, nine, nine nine to nineteen ninety two andi i i’d have to stare at a blank ledger every day, and i knew i had to fill it up with atleast ten hours of billable activity. Otherwise i’d be working that weekend to make up the difference, and there were all kinds of building codes for for producing tangible output, but there was never a code for thinking. You know what? I just spent time thinking about your case, thinking about what the best strategy would be thinking about how to manage the relationship with this adversarial party, but i could never build for i thought and i i i had to build it into some document, some letter memo to the file or to the client that i had written this thinking time was never a billable activity, that it wasn’t a recognized thing that we should ask clients to pay for. Yeah, sorry, we feel the exact same thing as a consultant, you know, we were able to build for designing a website or creating a strategic brief for leading a workshop, but a lot of that that the thinking time is sort of out in space that we’re not. We’re not ableto billed for, which creates on, as, you know, an inverse relationship with the actual quality of the work that we’re trying to deliver. Yeah, wait, we just have a minute before a break tell me how you enforce this. How do you get people to it’s create this white space in their in their work days? Well, i think you just i mean, it’s been very interesting trying to implement this with my own company over the last couple of years and the hardest route to do this with his with young folks with the millennials grownup as digital natives. In so it’s kind of repeatedly letting them know that they’re a part of their job is delivering value like deep, valuable thinking, and to do that, they need to create some separation from technology and from their devices, and they need to create space and so really encouraging people to get up and walk around to take way. Taking meditation moments through our days, we have these virtual meditations we do throughout the week that are just three to five minutes, because i don’t think it could be. It could be a short period of time or a longer period of time longer the better. But even to destry minutes can make a big difference in your day where you’re actually fully disengaged in either in a short meditation or even just day dreaming and looking out the window. Hold that’s all we’ve got to take a break. Yeah, tell us you’ve heard the tell us mony als from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and, of course, they’re getting the revenue each month on dh from companies who are using tello’s for credit card processing can use more revenue big question can use more revenue that long stream of passive revenue. Ah, i’ll bet you could watch the video at tony dahna slash tony tello’s that’s the way to get started now back to steve rio. Steve, i am guessing that a part of this is the especially the millennials where the tougher nuts to crack, he said they need to see you doing these things a swell like you’re you’re taking the virtual meditations with them, of course, that’s, right? Yeah. So so i think i mean, i think what’s very key for organizations realized that has to start with leadership, and so i think in my case, i’m the ceo of my company, i’m the founder of my company, so i’m ableto teo live this toe live this thes recommendations and these ideas and to really create that opportunity for people to pick it up. Now, it’s a serious behavior change for a lot of people who are very accustomed and, you know, perhaps addicted to their devices into being engaged with technology and those things so really creating behavior change, which could take some time, but it does start with leadership. Mm. And i think it all you know, it also we also have to rethink the way we organize our offices and the way we organize our work days and start to create, you know, periods of the day where people are allowed to work uninterrupted without the expectation that they’re going to re responding to emails or or taps on the shoulder or slack black messages that air coming in. I mean, the amount of distractions were seeing in our workplace today is is pretty insane, actually, when you think about how the brain works and what we actually need to do, teo, to be focused, creative and productive. So again, maybe maybe enforcement is not quite the right word, but encouragement or, uh, seems sounds like you’re stronger than just encouraging. Do you have these periods where people are no, during which people are not expected to to respond? So that’s their long term, you know, sort of thinking time and creative time. Yeah, we yeah, we do. We encourage way encouraged people to to use their calendars as a tool to block out time for that they’re weak. Where it’s very clear to everyone if they’re looking at other, you know, trying to find a time to book a meeting that these, you know, we encouraged ninety minute blocks of time because that’s really the amount of time that the the brain can, you know, we can focus on a hard cognitive tasks without meeting a break. So these ninety minute blocks, we encouraged those in the morning whenever possible because that’s really the most, uh, energy or your brain is going to have for the for the day. And we also created some tools, so we use black, like many, you know, like many companies, we use flak for internal communications, kind of quick, quick communications, but we’ve created a tool where people can basically turn on a snooze button for their slack, which notifies others when they messaged them to say, this person is in a focus what we call a focus block for x amount of minutes, and it indicates the amount of minutes before that person will be available again. Okay, so both some tools as well as practices and then what we’re what we’re looking at now is looking at sort of a shared a shared timeline throughout the day that works because we work on both the primarily the west coast in east coast time zones in north america, but basically looking at a calendar format that works for both, where there’s specific periods of the day where everyone is encouraged to focus in on their work and other shorter periods of time where everyone is focused to then use those periods to collaborate, communicate, ask questions and do all the regular sort of things that are necessary to move project forward. When you’re interviewing people to work for you, do you bring up these topics and sort of assess their their willingness? We do we? I mean, i don’t expect i don’t really feel like it a subject that is taught in universities or that many workplaces have ever really considered, so i don’t necessarily expect people to come in with a knowledge of it, but i do expect people to be open to it and willing to adopt it, and actually, as we’ve developed this content, more and more we’ve done two things one is internally, we’re starting to build a curriculum for this that will be basically required learning it’ll be part of our onboarding process that people will go through over the first a month or two of being being part of our company, where they will, they’re basically build these habits up, and these will be poor expectations of our of our work, of our workforce. The second thing we’re doing is is creating we’ve created a new entity called right well on break wells, you know, mandate is to help train and educate people through workshops were working like i said, we’re about to embark on a university tour to start teaching this as a supplementary content to college students. So my my my goal would be that people start to recognize this is the core necessity for for the workforce, not just being a subject matter expert and say, fund-raising or marketing or whatever, you know, your your specific areas, but also your work habits. So really thinking about both as as critical to success. How often do you do the virtual meditations? We have those happening every day of the week and there in a couple different times and what they are, they’re basically optional five minute meditations where people can jump on a video call, yeah, like on a video link, and they every we jump on the video and we just start with everybody sharing a one word kind of update on where they’re at so it could be stressed or excited or tired or just something to check in really quickly. And then we have a three, three, two, four minute guided medication that we all listen to. What it was really interesting is that the the actual active taking those three to four minutes is really relaxing and rejuvenating, you know, energetically, but it also brings people together in a very interesting way that we always end the calls of people, the big smile on their face and kind of connected in a way, even though we’ve been mostly silent together for those three to four minutes pretty neat how many of those do you participate in? I try to do them at least three or four times a week. I participate in a lot of them, i don’t i don’t leave them, but yeah, i try to participate in them a lot. I mean, i think, like i say, a lot of this is lead by example and and show that even a busy ceo of the company can take that time, you know, creating that space is possible, it’s a matter of sort of changing your mind set around how you structure your day no, we’re going tow. We’ll take another break and when we come back, i want to i want to start talking about your encouragement for non-cash hour, mindfulness and and attention. Great text to give. You’ll get more revenue because they make e-giving easy for your donors is our newest sponsor welcoming them again? If your donor’s consent a text, they could make a donation. How much simpler could it be? It’s simple, affordable, it’s secure the ceo is chad chad boyd. You can talk to him. The way to get started is text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine for info and to claim a special listener offer. We got about six more minutes for focus and attention. And so, steve really let’s make that shift what’s your encouragement for people outside the work day. Yeah, this is to me is a such a critical area and it’s very interesting to try and, you know, impact people’s personal behaviors, right? And i think it’s a critical component of our success that work is their success out of work. And i think to me, they’re all combined these days. So there’s a few things we really focus in on one is people’s morning habit. So how did they start their day? Particularly the first thirty minutes to their day. So really encouraging people to wake up without technology. So just stay off of of the internet, on off social media and off their email and things like that for the first thirty minutes of the day. It’s proven it’s a very critical time where we’re shifting mind state from, you know, from asleep to a conscious state, and it is a key time to sort of tell the tell the brain what type of what type of hey, am i gonna have is going to be a fragmented, distracted day where there’s all sorts of news and e mails and alert coming in? Or is it going to be a day where i’m focused on my priority? So the morning routine, we talk a lot about there’s, other aspects of that too, where we wait, just think about can you get some physical time in o r sum? Like even if it’s just yoga or a walk or something like that? But how? Do you think about your morning? And similarly before you okay? Before you move on, i want to focus on the morning. All right, so so you’re recommending eso. Okay. So, it’s, fine to wake up with your phone. Okay, your phone is your alarm. Okay? You silence. That sounds like don’t put it on snooze taken extra ten to fifteen minutes. Right? That’s bad. Probably, uh, okay. And now set aside. Don’t check e mail. Don’t look at the latest alerts. Um, what do you want? What do you want me to do? Right after i hit that silence button on the alarm. Yeah. So i think probably the most. The healthiest thing you could do for your day is to wake up to spend the first few minutes of your day, perhaps thinking about your top, you know, maybe what you want to achieve that day, maybe thinking about what? Your great before, like, you know, taking a few minutes to have a bit of a gratitude practice. So a simple way to think about that is just every morning. Think about three things that you’re grateful for and those could be, you know, somebody important in your life some projects you’re working on, you know, the sun is out. It could be very simple things, but taking a few moments to be grateful and two to to, you know, feel good and excited about your day. And then i think also spending the first few minutes, uh, doing something physical, if possible, if you can get up in the first thing you do is get outside and breathe fresh air and go for a walk. That’s a very healthy way to start your day and to warm up your body in your mind so i can stop in the bathroom first, right on my way to the walk. Absolutely. Okay, but don’t eat anything, you know, okay, because otherwise out of bladder pain be terrible walk so yeah, and it could you might, you know, you could wake up and make your coffee or make your tea or, like, i think, just having basically a morning routine that is calm and present, where you’re spending time in the present moment, whether it’s like a lot of people for them it’s the ritual of making a great coffee and thinking about their day and looking out the window. And just, you know, taking a few moments to be very present at the beginning here today is a great way to ground your energy and be more resilient when you do start, you know, getting your work environment and you start getting emails or not you and all sorts of information, you’re a lot. You have a lot more resilience and ability to be, you know, president and capable of handling whatever stone at you. Now, this sounds good intuitively is their research that bears this out. What this is this effect throughout the day that you’re describing there is a lot of there is research around, yeah, around the way that you start your day. So when people, when people start today with technology, whether it’s, whether it’s work related, so se e mails rather kind of alert first off, any type of work e mails or things like that can immediately trigger an anxiety response, even if it’s not necessarily a negative thing, it could just mean hope there’s an urgent thing or something pops up, and so when you start your day with that way, you’re basically haven’t heightened, uh, heightened dose of what we call cortical zoho yeah, yeah, and this is where your stress is, one of those one of reaction to stress hormones well, basically spike right out of the gate without having a warm up to the day and then there’s also research that shows when you start your day with technology, your brain is basically triggered into a highly reactive state, which means that you’re more likely to be distracted on dh less able to stay on task through the morning after the day. I mean, so so you’re more likely you’re basically telling your brain if you think about our brain in a more about, you know, primitive sense, if you wake up and you’re immediately alerted to thirty different things, you’re basically telling your brain today is a day where i just need to be aware of anything that moves around me, which is not necessarily the state you want to be in when you wantto get him focused. Work done. Okay, so the research bears it out. All right, all right, all right. What? Anything else we have? Just about two minutes or so left. Anything else for outside the work hours that you reckon e i would. Say the at, like, the absolute most important thing people should be thinking about outside of their work is their sleep. And and in north america, we have a serious issue. One into adults are sleep deprived. You know, one in three adults in north america are working our surviving on less than six or left hours of sleep, and this is having a massive effect on not only our cognitive ability, but our health and well being and our mood and our mindset. And so i think, it’s one of the most undervalued, most important things we should be thinking about is getting the necessary amount of sleep there’s just an incredible amount of research, not only showing the health issues that are related to a lack of sleep and by a lack of sleep, i really mean six hours or less, or anything in that area which a lot of people consider to be a fairly normal amount osili but also the amount of cognitive decline that you that you experience. So i think a lot of times we have this this this relationship with time where we think, well, there’s not enough time to sleep. There’s so much i got to get done, but then when we don’t sleep, our productivity in our capacity and our ability to process is so low that we’re actually kind of creating a creating a negative feedback loop on where we’re getting less done with our time. I think sleep is the other area that i think people should be really focused in on and for optimal sleep. You want a dark and quiet space? I’ve done the way. Yes, we’re gonna leave it there those steve. But thank you for saying one hundred percent steve rio, you want to learn more from him finding that bright b r i t web dot com and treat him directly at steve rio. Thank you, steve. Thank you every day. Thank you. And a good night, too. Next week, amy sample ward returns with over marketing. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p weather. See piela is guiding you beyond the numbers when you’re cps dot com bye tello’s credit card. And payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna, slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr. To four, four, four, nine, nine, nine ah, creative producers, clam meyerhoff, sam leave lorts is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guys, and this music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz to get you thinking. Dahna cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative network, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. 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Nonprofit Radio for July 17, 2015: Walk to Work & Keep Current After Launch

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Beth Kanter & Ritu Sharma: Walk to Work

(l-r) Beth Kanter & Ritu Sharma at NTC 2015

Beth Kanter and Ritu Sharma want you to make walking part of your work day. Not for a break. They share how to work while you walk, including walking meetings, and they swear you’ll be more productive, more creative—and feel better. Beth is a master trainer, author and blogger. Ritu is co-founder and executive director of Social Media for Nonprofits. We talked at NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN).

 

Farra Trompeter & Kira MarcheneseKeep Current After Launch

(l-r) Farra Trompeter & Kira Marchenese at NTC 2015

A website redesign is expensive, time-consuming and overwhelming. Starting on day two, how do you keep it current? Farra Trompeter is vice president at Big Duck and Kira Marchenese is senior director, digital strategy + platforms for the Environmental Defense Fund. This is also from NTC.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host we have a listener of the week, daniel trust in bridgeport, connecticut. He tweeted me that he just found non-profit radio and says good stuff, man he’s, our newest listener and our listener of the week i’ll send you a video, daniel, and you can pick a book from the non-profit radio library. Congratulations, daniel. Trust oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with prayer ago if i had the itching idea that you missed today’s show, walk to work beth cantor and re to sharma, i want you to make walking part of your work day, not for a break. They share howto work while you walk, including walking meetings, and they swear you’ll be more productive, more creative and feel better. Beth is a master trainer, author and blogger re too. Is co founder and executive director of social media for non-profits we talked at ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference, hosted by an ten non-profit technology network and keep current after launch. A website redesign is expensive, time consuming and overwhelming starting on day two. How do you keep it current? Farah trompeter is vice president at big duck and kira marchenese is senior director, digital strategy and platforms for the environmental defense fund that is also from ntcdinosaur on tony’s, take two. Have you seen my videos responsive by opportunity, collaboration, the working meeting, the unconference on poverty alleviation that will ruin you for every other conference from ntcdinosaur are beth cantor and re to sharma on walking. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage over the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen, hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. We’re in austin, texas, at the convention center and my guests are beth cantor, master trainer, author and blogger at beth cantor dot org’s. And also metoo sharma, co founder and executive director of social media for non-profits their workshop topic is walking is work. Don’t call it a break. Beth metoo welcome, welcome, thank you. Welcome back, beth, that has been on the show before you to his new welcome first time. Thank you very much with us. Metoo why? Why? Why should we be paying attention? Teo walking from my perspective, i’m an accidental walker, i think one hundred times better i started. Walking more extensively as part of my work, i’ve always been a walker, but as part of my work, i started about seven months ago and it was accidental because i got a new puppy and the puppy needed to be walked every three hours. That’s how it started with practical, it was very practical decision, but as i started walking, i needed to take some calls and then i started taking some of those calls on my and my box, and i found that i was paying a lot more attention. In those calls, i was not distracted by a number off social media pings and emails and other people entering in those conversations, i was really more present and then the other thing that i noticed, which is what started us making a lot more content at social media non-profits is, i am i started having a lot of ideas about different topics to write about different opinions on the current topics and that got me kick started is walking is work alright on beth, we shouldn’t if we haven’t fallen into it. Luckily accidentally metoo did we actually should be deliberate about it on dh we have some research to back that up? Yeah, as a matter of fact, i know. I got into it. Actually. The right after the last time. I was on almost two years ago. Really? I went into my doctor and i got my cholesterol tested. You know, we’re getting there. We have to get our cholesterol tested. It was three. Ninety nine. You had cholesterol of blind ninety nine. Right, which is closer to the mike. You get too excited. Okay, you know, three hundred ninety two and healthiest on one fifty or less. Right? So i decide to get walking. You know, obviously, i was not eating too many cheeseburgers, and i was sitting at my desk and i could see that you know, the house effects. So i bought one of the use of health. Fitbit. And i got out there and i started walking and writing about it before i knew it. I was walking twenty thousand steps per day, and it became this little game. How could i work? Work it into twenty thousands, like double the thie average. Ten thousand ten thousand. I’m up to now ten miles a day. Yeah, and you know what happened? My cholesterol went down to ninety nine my trig lyssarides, but something else happened. I noticed i was more president, i could pay attention and i was happier and more creativity. And so what would happen is i got really excited about this, and i’ve been blogging about it. I’ve been doing workshops, i’ve been kind of this evangelist for walking as work was people would say to me, how do you fit this into your day? You know? And and the mindset is really about, like, ok walking it’s the separate thing it’s for exercises for the health benefits, but really, i think it’s key to your productivity, we know we know something about walking versus sitting while we’re while we’re working, don’t we? Yes, we dio slideshare well, think about how much time you spend sitting at work. The average person spends nine point three hours sitting that’s more than we sleep, which is seven point seven hours and you know what all that sitting is doing to our bodies and our minds? Well, it’s, physically it’s collapsing our spines, it’s collapsing our spines it’s causing calling cancer it’s calling, causing heart disease brain fog, neck problems muscle generation, you know, it’s enough to make you want to stand up your desk, head to the door and never come back to your office. But you don’t have to do that. You know, you just need to start to think about ways to integrate movement into your work, okay? You know, maybe it’s, first of all, change your mindset, it’s thinking about different ways that you can start adding more steps, more walking, you know, park the car far this away from the door. We’re gonna get to all that time together. We’re still the motivations thing, okay? The motivation so obviously health reaches say more about the creativity. I know that was really important to you. I think when we are in close spaces and spaces, every normally sitting at nineteen hours a day, our mind gets closed almost. It only sees what we have in front of us. It becomes very reactive. It’s just reacting to emails that are coming in phone calls that are coming in and putting off fires. When you get out of that stunning and you walk in the nature, you walk in the grass, you walking the party, it doesn’t matter where. You walk when you start moving a little bit, your your brain starts to disengage from a reactive mode to a much more proactive and creative more, and what i’ve noticed for me is some of these things come to me, they’re like brilliant pieces isn’t incredible. I wrote a couple block post that we had the males traction ever, and i was just walking the dog. You know what? You have the most traction traction ever in our in our work, and those entire pieces were conceived while walking i just idea hit it, and i started flashing it while i was walking in and i came back, you had granted out in twenty minutes, and we’ve seen most likes shares, comments and really some great pieces that have come out of walking. So from a creative standpoint, i find the reason behind that is that you get a distance and you’re not constantly just addressing a pressing problem anymore. You’re able to actually give your mind a little bit of brake to process all the stimulation, all the stimuli and act activities and all the information that we were exposed to, in fact, over exposed to we have a time to process it, we have a time to just put it in different places where it belongs, and then start to see greater trends and start to see how this piece fits with some of the other stuff we’ve done. And if you’re in a reactive in front of your computer mode, you just don’t have that create this space to a process i know time is constantly belongs to other people as e mail comes in, and as much as we’re supposed to, i know a good practice for email is only react to it a set number of hours a day or set time today, but that’s very, very hard to do, and you end up being all fragmented and distracted constantly. Exactly. And, uh, the other thing is going to get a flow going way also have these phones that are full of notifications, any ping you get any tweets, you get any tax message, you get all the e mails there, these things that were changed, you know, technology. While it can be a great, great accelerator, it can also hold you back and hold you in chains because you’re constantly attacked on your head? Yeah, go ahead. Back-up let’s, go say this sort of gets us away from the topic about walking his work, but the with the walking does physiologically in your brain. Is it it’s fire synapses, you know? So if you were to look at there’s actually, researchers that are looking at the impact of movement on the brain and so if you look at a brain of a person who’s been sitting for twenty minutes, it’s all dark, okay? And if you look at a person’s brain, you know, doing a brain scan after a twenty minute vigorous walk it’s all lit up because the endorphins are flowing, connections are being made, and then we hear, you know, the proof of it from what metoo was talking about. And it’s also been proven in a number of studies. I think the most famous one has come from stanford, where they actually studied. They measured creativity of people who took walks, a brisk walk at lunch and creativity improved. Andi, just to make it explicit. We’re talking about walks without your phone or it’s turned off. Maybe you know you’re not you’re not allowing the distractions of your mobile device. While you’re walking, unless you use it to take notes. Okay, take note, but that’s you gets you in putting. Yeah, but metoo it sounds like you’re saying, you know, we don’t we’re trying to eliminate these distractions and also be vigorous in activity that’s true and when you’re walking it’s kind of hard to be as attached to a phone without tripping or knowing where you’re going, so i usually just go have it handy with me. Should there be an emergency that really needs me. But unless it’s an emergency, i actually have it handy if i need to answer a call or something. But for the most part, it’s. Hard to be that attached. As as you are in an office, i see people in new york city giving it a go, though yeah, there they are walking and lots of walking and texting, but but that’s not what we’re talking about here know what we’re talking about here is turn off the yarn device and go for a walk damaged overhead. Clear, clear your head. Don’t go further than that. Yeah, i think is notorious for the f word on non-profit radio a long time ago. But its memories linger. You know, world leaders. You know, obama is really famous for taking walks, steve jobs and, well, there’s a rich history of of of walking as work. I mean, think about like charles dickens. Did you know that he walked twenty miles a day, twenty miles a day? He hated being tethered to a desk. And on gina freud? No. Okay. Freud and analysts, you know? Yeah, they said, and their patient lies on the couch. But he’s fate, he was famous for walking with his patients to get to breakthroughs. I know, i know. A famous stander we stood on his desk was donald rumsfeld. He did not have a traditional desk. He stood as he worked. Now i don’t do politics on non-profit radio, so maybe that’s a counter example. Wait. Decided either way, but i know he, uh he stood and that’s that’s, that’s something that you were suggesting that you, khun, stand and work aside from walking, but standing versus sitting, yeah, standing desk. And, you know, other researchers come in, you know, it used to be okay. Go the jim. You know, i go the gym so i can sit on my backside for eight hours and i won’t suffer those how harmful health effects, but you know what? It doesn’t matter whether you’re at the top of your game physically, you still can reap the harmful effects of sitting. So what some researchers recommended this comes from the mayo clinic is the twenty eight, two. So every twenty minutes, if you sit, you work, you concentrate, you get up and you stand for eight minutes and two minutes stretching. Really? And that the idea, the mind shift is that you sit to rest your body from standing. Uh, okay. Rather than sitting being the focal. Yeah. Focus of the day. Yes. Okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g. Before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Okay, we got you. Sometimes it can be hard to follow structures like that one that i think is very worthy. And i use it in a different way. If you’re starting out and your tender session tomorrow. Are you here today and you inspired to do that? What i would recommend doing is doing something that i’ve done is pomodoro matter-ness it really allows you to set these intervals. If you just rely on your own free will to help you do this, sometimes it can be hard to create habits. They take about ninety days to form habits for something to really gel into your daily life style change at the very least, so well you may want to do is look at things like pomodoro, matted and you can and you can design that for me. It’s every twenty five minutes of sitting, i get a five minute break and then after two or three of those, i get a twenty minute walk and and that actually forces you and it’s. Incredible, you’re doing this in your day to day work day today i have a knife in you two so obviously i do want your day. Well, i do it. Yes, it is. And i do it slightly differently. I not only measure my time in increments body also measure my energy and my ability to concentrate. And i try to design my schedule so the tasks fit my ability to concentrate and always working in these smaller chunks. I do things like i do it a slightly different method of pomodoro. I’ve experimented with paula joran for a couple of years, but there’s no place pomodoro. We call it pomodoro. Yes, it’s tomato in italian because that’s the reason it’s called this because it came with an old tomato timer. And so and time yeah, you set up for twenty five minutes. And originally the context for it is that if you’re overloaded like this, you’re going to suffer consequences of procrastination and work avoidance. So pomodoro is a method for you to like eat that frog in the morning and just start get something done metoo ago you were you were sharing. I really enjoyed that. Because what i do is i get teo something i take take a project with twenty, twenty five minutes. And then even if i’m in the middle of doing this. I take a five minute break and i actually either stretch or ideo pushups or i just do a plank. And i tried to increase my duration for that. And then that’s sort of every two or three generations. And then i go and take a walk. And i will tell you that in the last year of doing that, the days that i do mamatoto matted very religiously are the days that are that i can get in one day over two weeks worth of work. And i’ve tested it several times now. In what amount of hard work in one day you feel you could do the same as you would have. That’s a maze in the dark days into weeks? Yes, including i even fit some laundry and folding some laundry in between weeks in a day? Yes, there’s. A lot of reading time. What i found is there’s a lot of closure. I want to do things that i actually make a big list before i take on a pomodoro day. Actually, you know, i make a huge list of things that i need to absolutely get done in a night. That’s my weak. Leaders and i’ve tested it several times. Normally i will be able to hit three or four or five of those because there’s so many reactive thinks about when i’m in the pomodoro matter mode, i basically check things off age of and the forced break no matter where you are in the process, it really prevents you from going into procrastination from reading one block post that takes you into another block post that takes you into yet another blood pools and that takes you to facebook and then to twitter. That doesn’t happen on pomodoro for me at least, so i would just recommend experiment with finding whatever is right for you not just mattered that works for me, but what works for you and use some technology to hope you get in the mode don’t just rely on free will to follow this palm adores it’s really not about like trying to get everything done and taking it off your to do list, but really it’s about focus and training your attention as somebody who has been doing the technology for twenty years or more like i’m like i was like that dog and up, you know. Doug squirrel. Oppcoll you know, so i consciously this about seven or eight years ago, like, trained my attention, like like i have on ongoing dialogue with myself on my opening up, another taba, my following, another social thread. And is this the task or something i should be doing? Would be doing is the best use of my time in this room, right? The eighteen minutes a day method with david berkowitz? I don’t know. What can you can you summarize it? Sure you spent. Okay. This will change your life. A change mine. And i’m right. That’s. The only reason i finished my second book. Okay, like changes. Okay, so, it’s, five minutes in the morning, you write down. What are the two or three things that you need to have done? What? Your priorities. And you reflected five minutes on the end of day. Did i get to my priorities? And then throughout the day, every hour on the hour, you beat yourself to remind yourself, am i on task? Okay. And what? Your set and you would think, it’s counterintuitive that you’re beating yourself? You’re distracting yourself, you know? Would you get distracted? Bring yourself to a center to a center center of the focus for that day. Exactly. And then you if you do that over a period of time, it really according to cubby takes what is it? Twenty one days to make a habit. Then you’ve internalized it and then used it stops beeping and you’re focused. And this helped you finished your second book? Yes. Okay. The two of you have great outcome stories. Really terrific. Impact of love. We still have some more time together. What have we not shared that we well, did we cover getting yourself out of the culture of sitting through the pomodoro method? Or so are very any variation of that. Is there maura around? Well, what? We started with this. Okay, so if we think divide this topic into the i and the weak. So we i think we have covered the you know, what do i have control of in my work life that i can change? Ok, ok. But many of us work in organizations and with other people. And we work in a culture where there’s lots of meetings. Sure. And the culture around those meetings is to sit. Yeah. All right. So that’s the challenge. Okay? We’d like to have walking meetings? Yes. Okay. And now you’re doing this tomorrow at twelve. Thirty and we’re gonna talk more about what we’ll bring it back to the office setting. I’ve forgotten, but just tell us what you’re doing tomorrow. Twelve. Thirty go ahead, return. We have a session tomorrow at ten. Thirty to twelve, where we’re going to talk about walking his work when we lay out the framework and then we’re going to take a big walk around twelve thirty with a number of conference attendees and give them an experience of discussing a specific topic while they’re on a walk with a large group. So they get to actually experience how to have a meeting while they’re walking out standing. Do you know what the topic is? Where you’re going? Decided in the session for the topic for the war. Walking comes for the ten. Thirty meetings. They’re going to be talking about planning a walking meeting. Okay, on our meat up, it will be open. It’s over that people choose what they want to do. Okay, are there all right, so let’s, bring it back to the office now. How can we help the the sitting meeting culture? Teo, get out of that. Well, you know, it’s interesting, because sometimes first of all, i think there needs to be some education around the links to workplace productivity and workplace wellness and that, you know, it isn’t a break. It really is important to productivity. And then this is not a zest your topic right at sung his work exactly. Don’t call it a break, right, it’s not like it’s not going to the gym and it’s not goofing off. Okay, okay, you’re really getting work done. So the next thing is to think about what? What are all the meetings in your life? And think about what could be done as a stand? You know, as a meeting, you know, walking, meeting and it’s. Probably best to start with a one on one meeting. Maybe a weekly meeting with your supervisor, maybe jet or somebody who reports to you and suggests that, you know, bring your sneakers to work. And you do that. Weiqing meeting as a walking meeting and maybe institute is the standing meeting ifyou’re going tio do a meeting with more people requires a little bit. More planning than a regular meeting in addition to the agenda, the purpose. Any pre reading you have to think about what your route is. You have to time the route. You have to be prepared if there’s bad weather, you know, we’re going to walk inside. You have to let people know to bring the right shoes at where their coats if it’s going to be cold and then you had to sort of make some modifications in the way that you take notes, people are you know, maybe this meeting is one where you’re discussing something. And the only thing you need to take down is the decisions as opposed to being in a meeting where you need to be looking at a lot of papers and a lot of yeah, tasking people on dh specificity, you know, okay, but you can take notes. You know, you can remember those things called pens paper. I’ve heard of them, you know, a most skin and can also now is it violating anything? If if if i suppose i get tested with something in our walk and i have my phone and i do a voice note to myself is that okay? Yes. Yeah. No, i’m we suggest a little side convo. Just we’ll just wild just for myself. Okay, so, like, well, one good thing to do in a walking meeting with a group is not to do. They spend the whole meeting walking and discussing like, you always have a little space of time at the end of the meeting to, like, summarized what the delivery bals are. And maybe you do that when you get back into the conference room. Okay, you know, and and and do that for note taking and people are fresh. Endorphins have been flowing and remember them, you know, another way to get started. It’s a little bit easier than the walkie meeting is a standing me kayman okay, we take this in increments, maybe. Yeah, depending on the culture and how willing your supervisors are to participate in your colleagues, they will do it incrementally. Yes, right. Standing, baby sitting half and then standing house, you know, crawl, walk, run, fly, ritu anything? Well, sure, i’d say that. Take it slow. Take it according to your culture and find different ways to do it. And there’s one common criticism, i hear. When we talk about walking his work, well, we have so many things we can get it done, it’s, like when you’re taking this on, start slow to start with one or two meetings and see how you’re doing don’t try teo enforce the really big culture change, you know, from the beginning do little things. Hey, do you mind when we do these meetings that we do the first portion of introductions and check ins? And when we’re reporting in what our week was like and what we’re doing, do that and maybe in a walking session and come back and take some notes as that just recommended in coming back? So find those the other couple things i would say that i have personally done that have been really helpful in and coming with from a change of culture in our organization is my default for all meetings is walking meeting now if you want time with me, it’s a walking meeting unless there’s a compelling reason why you can’t be so on. My default is no longer let’s sit down for coffee at starbucks my default is hey there’s, a park next to my office you want to meet, then let’s talk. And if somebody has an objection like, well, how are we gonna take notes again? I go back to now abets famous line. Have you heard of those bill old things called pen and a little pocket most qin and the other thing i’d say too. And the way i work with it, it’s, you know, walking meetings or subset of overall good meeting practice, and i would also talkto leadership and ask, don’t don’t you want more effective meetings in your organization? What if you were able to replace ineffective meetings that waste people’s time with meetings that are highly productive and that makes people feel great and get work more even more work done in less time when you want to do that. And that should really try it. Yeah, let’s. Try it and see you at least try. Okay, we got a couple more minutes. What have ah, not asked you yet about this. That, uh, you want to you want to share? Get a couple more. If i can cheer when quick thing. The second thing that i do besides defaulting to walking meetings is i do not take any phone. Call unless it’s absolutely necessary sitting down and that’s a very easy switch to make. Just grab the phone and start pacing, you know? Yeah, i’ve been doing that for years because i’m a kinesthetic learner, so it teach me it just helps me if i move, i think better and just and i found that if i’m like, when i wasn’t standing for phone calls, i’m sitting at my desk, checking my email and getting distracted, so standing walking on and also i think i want to emphasize to people, you know, i got started with this web stuff in the early nineties, and i had our side by the nineteen, ninety five repetitive stress is right, and one of the things i learned there was about stretching and taking this break, that it’s really important, and sometimes we get so addicted and where were you know, we use our computer keyboard is a lunch train, and we don’t get up because we think, you know, we’re not getting work done. So the one thing i would leave people with us really think about what you’re doing to your body and what you’re doing to your mind and don’t think of it as wasted time and trust us. You’ll be more productive and you’ll be happier. Absolutely okay. Productivity, creativity. Good health. Good. Reduced cholesterol. Substantially it’s. All it’s. All excellent. All right, we do anything you want to wrap up with. No, just thank you for the opportunity and happy walking, everyone. Yes. All right. Get out there and do it. Metoo sharma is yes. Is co founder and executive director of social media for non-profits and beth cantor, master trainer, author and blogger walking is work. Don’t call it a break. Listening to and joining with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen. Thank you so much for being with us, ladies. Thank you. Great thanks to you. Pleasure twenty steak too, and keep current after launch are coming up first opportunity collaboration it’s an unconference in x top of mexico in october for everyone working in poverty alleviation, there’s a lot of free time to meet the non-profits from around the world that are there, who you can learn from and who can help you do your work wherever it is you’re working it’s over ninety three percent sold out i’m going to be there? I got my reservation in if you are helping those who live in poverty, check out opportunity, collaboration, opportunity, collaboration, dot net, i have over one hundred seventy videos on youtube. There are dozens of conference interviews, all the conference conferences where i’ve interviewed speakers on topics like fund-raising events, marketing, communications, technology, board relationships, lots of board topics, the non-profit radio knowledge based videos are there everything i’ve done on plant e-giving and charity registration? 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Here are farrah trump, peter and cura marchenese from anti seizure keeping your website current after launch welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen we’re at the austin convention center austin, texas with me now are farrah trump, peter and kira marchenese sarah is a vice president for big duck and kira is senior director, digital strategy and platforms for the environmental defense fund. Sarah sarah, welcome, welcome you welcome. Thank you. It’s. A pleasure to have you both here. Let’s. Start let’s. Start with you. What are what are non-profits not really planning around enough when they do a web redesign or maybe even a launch. Everybody gets so excited about having the new site that it’s like you bring home your brand new car and you never think about putting gas in it, much less getting the tires changed or oil put in it. And so what we focus on our session focus on in our session is all of the things that you do need to keep track. Of after you’ve brought home your shiny new website and concrete tips on how to do so, uh, what are what are some of the things that you’ll be talking about? Just tick off a few topics. How does stretcher resource is further so that you can fit more smart updating in you in your regular schedule? We’ll talk about structuring your sight to minimize the need for updates, and we’ll talk about how to keep yourselves accountable and make sure that you actually do the updates that you’ve planned on doing. Okay, farrah anything i think you want to add at this early stage, just that i think just to build on this care and i did a session three years ago at the ntc twenty twelve called is a time to rethink your website, and that session was all about, you know, first, starting with a clear understanding of your goals and audiences before you go and change the design change, the content changed the technology, wait a really great conversation with staff and everyone and non-profit staff consultants who attended and we’ve since done it and other conferences, and it spread a lot of good thinking about do i rethink my sight? So i have to completely overhaul it? Are there incremental changes i can make? Well, we realized, as we were sort of reconnecting on this topic recently was again a sort of cure was saying there’s, so much energy put into building a site, you know, redoing your sight can take six to nine months for some organizations a year, and then all of a sudden it launches you like great done seeing three years check off. Exactly, and what we have found is especially, you know, your your website. Still, even the web sites have been around for over twenty years. It still is the one of the main places supporters will go to find information about you, and it is important that that site represents who you are and what you’re about on also is somewhat current with user experience and what people are looking for in a basic website so responsive, for example, on other things, and and that means that your sight’s still has to be dynamic. It can’t be a brochure, so if in organizations made it past this idea that their website is not a brochure that step one but i still, even though that happened let’s say, non-profits and organizations got that over ten years ago. And, you know, our website needs to be engaging. Great. I still think that there are lots of non-profits out there. They build their sight, they set up the information, they walk away from it. So this idea of this session is how do you keep that site current and think about it being a living, breathing representation of your organization and a way to connect with your community beyond that launch button day. Okay, care. I see you nodding a lot. So total agreement, your did this three years ago. So you know, the beginning of this three years ago, this is this is this is the sequel, and this is how we’re keeping it current. Okay, this is the electric boogaloo part duitz. Yeah, exactly. Remember that break in electric boogaloo? I don’t know, eighties. Um, okay, so, let’s, stay with you. Ah, farah what’s your wee. Where should we start with this? Start this process. Well, karen mentioned stretching resource is further. Is that is that a good place for us to start? Yeah, i mean one of the things that we often hear when we say, well, wire websites not kept up to date or wire people, you know, aside from this feeling of okay, it’s changing a belief, certainly that i do have to think about my sight beyond launch, but more than that, we always get this conversation that, well, i don’t have enough time. I’m busy getting the next email out, i have to worry about my fund-raising campaign, we’ve got all this advocacy, this petition, we’re running, so everyone sort of caught up in the day to day their communications that they want the website to be on autopilot. Eso what we’re really looking at is, yes, we know you don’t have enough staff time, we know you don’t have enough money, what are some things you can do once we get past that acknowledgement? And so we’ve got a lot of suggestions about how you can, you know, take those limited resource is and be smart about you want people to stop saying we can’t way have this other stuff, so we’re just gonna throw up our hands and website just we’ll have to suffer exact what can we do with the limited? Resources that we do have exactly. Okay, exactly. Xero what can we start to do? Well, the first thing that you can start to do is evaluate what resources you have and how much you need, and so we’ll go through ah quick little math exercise on our site. We have about one hundred pages that need some kind of maintenance there, not a press release or a block post that has a date on it, and nobody ever expects those to be updated. We’re talking about the page, the about us, paige, our privacy policy pages about certain projects that were working on those need a little bit of care and feeding, and one of the first things you do is you say, well, if i’ve got a hundred of those and i think it’s going to take a couple hours of time, tio, get each of those updated one hundred times a couple hours that works out to five weeks of solid work time in is that reasonable? Do you have five weeks? You know, some organizations do and that’s great, and they’re a head of a lot of the rest of us, but a lot of us. Will say, oh, in two hours, that’s really not enough to update this page because i’m going to have to talk with the program’s staff who managed this manages the project, and then they’re going to have to approve the changes that i make and all of a sudden you’re like, man that’s, eight hours so that’s one hundred days and you know, where am i going to find that hundred days? So the in a lot of organizations, you never have that conversation, and you just have an out of date website in a stressed out staff. So the first thing that you can do is try teo, get it? Well, why’re we stressed out, is it because we don’t have enough help? And maybe we can hire a temporary writer to help us? You get on top of this, or have we just really taken on more than we can handle? And we need to reevaluate how many pages we have on the site. So if we can find a concrete place to start that conversation, we can start solving the problem you have in one of the things that we were talking about is like, what does? Your website being out of date really look like so that could look like everything from your board listing just doesn’t you know, you added somebody on the board two months ago, but they’re still not listed on your site so that’s kind of a minor out of date. But one of things that drives me crazy is when i go to an organization’s website and i see, like, save the date for her upcoming conference in december twenty fifth eleven but i mean, maybe that’s a little exaggerated, even last a month out exactly. And it’s like no, come back. You know, the next day i should see conferences from the pictures from the event i should see what happened. I should see the tweets, the storify, whatever it is. But i think when organizations say, like what’s new and you go to the what’s new page and it’s talking about things from six months ago again your donor, your activist, your participant is going to think you’re not keeping things up, and then they that will actually impact your reputation. So, you know, at big duck, we think a lot about your brand, so so our angle on a lot of this is hacking you your user website as a way to really continue to build a relationship with your supporter. Your website. Visitor. Whoever that is and make sure that you have said, is just enhancing their perception of you and not eroding it. And so, you know, when your website is out of date, it will start. People won’t think they’ll think a lot less of you, it’s, like coming by to your office and see that there’s paint chipping on the wall. What else? Anything you want to add to ah, what kira suggested about howto evaluate what? What? What? The task is that’s ahead of us. Yeah, i mean, i think here is laid out of really thinks about it so smartly, which is why i love presenting with her we’ve a love fest, but i think not, you know, it’s great to think about what are the pages, how we maybe minimize those number of pages we have to keep up today, but then layering in again, this idea of goals and audience is coming back to that, which is saying, okay, let’s say there are a hundred pages we’ve built the site, i can’t change it, it is what it is. I only have twenty days and not one hundred let me then focus my twenty days on the twenty most important pages, and those most important pages were the ones that maybe get the most traffic are most critical to any initiatives you’re running and are really the ones that your audience are looking for. Not necessarily the page at the executive director of the board chair tell she was most important, which is another congressman, we’re definitely gonna get into the board and senior senior leadership, they have their opinions as well, but it becomes very difficult and even your own staff. You know, one of the things that we’ll talk about is that editors and writers really like making things that are new, and there i won’t forget the first time that my online writer realized that it wasn’t it she’s pushing the rock up the hill, and it comes rolling back down and she’s got to push it back up again. We got a page lunch and she had really worked hard on it, and it came out great, and i made the mistake of saying to her right after it launched like, oh, great! And then the next time we come back and revised this page, we can look into this bit of it, and we’ll have data about that and the look on her face, who’s, just don’t make me do it again. You don’t have to do that again. And so it’s, not just the senior executives who are pushing us to do things that may not be really what’s most needed no it’s, always fun to do something new and it’s. Not as fun to go back and redo something that you thought was done a year ago let’s probe this little deeper when we’re getting of suggestions from boards, senior leadership, how do we how do we manage that on anybody? When, when, when their suggestions are misplaced, right about priority? It all goes back to what sarah said about goals and audiences, and if you’ve built a strong understanding with all of your stakeholders about what your priorities are and how you’re going to connect with your audience is then it’s easier to go back to that is a foundation and you know, if you can say yes, i understand that this is important to you, and when we’ve when we look at what people are looking at, there is a mismatch here you khun service that and have that conversation with them if you haven’t reached that agreement, it’s a lot harder to shift that conversation later, and i think when they come to you and say we want to change its pages, ask questions, why? In who? You know, why do we need to change it on dh who really needs this page? Updated who’s looking for something new that’s not already on there and let me tell you a little bit based on those thinking about the wise and the who’s, what i think we should be focusing on now, at the end of the day, i could say all i want to say about that as a consultant, but you live in an organization, and sometimes you have to listen to the senior leaders, but i think you can at least try and have a strategic conversation as much as possible, and you can set the agenda as well. You know, we don’t wait for our senior communications executive to find a page on the website that he thinks need to be needs to be updated. We tell him here the pages that we’ve decided to focus on for the next three months and here’s what you’re going to get from it. And so by framing the conversation again, back to the goals and audiences, you can take more control of it. I’m being proactive with that, i think you know, the other thing i’m thinking about us were talking, and we spoke again a lot about this previously, which is, i think organization non-profits have to make the shift of thinking about their website as a program, right? So you know what i mean? Like so if you think about the programs you’re putting out in the world, whatever those those maybe whether they’re in person, whether their, you know, whatever services you’re providing, if you think about your website as a service you’re providing, then maybe the idea of giving it, you know, love and attention and care and feeding feels a little bit more comfortable. I think when people still think about their website as this, you know, printed, you know, like the statics for tools, the support tool, but not a living breathing mechanism that could help advance your mission and connect with people. That’s what we’re really talking about. Excellent. I love that love that idea think it seems very simple programs, and it is so fundamental reputation, right and reputation and brand that all sang like that we’re thinking about exactly let’s move teo structuring the site two to help to minimize updates who was firing? One continues, i’ll speak briefly, but i think here has a lot of great things to say here i think you know when it comes to when your first structuring your site it’s important to think about what are the priorities that my audience is looking for again? Not necessarily what i’m what the senior staff for any staffer looking for, but it really ask the questions if you have an existing site doing user testing, finding out really what the community wants from your website again thinking about it as a program, and then once you’ve structured the site, i mean again asking those questions that, you know, in six months from now on, we’re looking at all those pages we have to keep up to date how we done ourselves a disservice. Certainly i’m not saying you should build your sight in a way that it doesn’t have to be updated. I think it’s important again for that website to be a living representation of your organisation, but maybe minimizing the number of pages that might have to get those updates and think about, too. What are the pieces of the site that need to be time sensitive and need to be up to date if it’s the description of you know your mission around a particular project area that’s probably. Not going to change. And you should probably structure it in such a way that that part of the page is is evergreen. And there might be things around it that change. There might be a little news box next to it that has blood posts and press releases saying the newest things about that program. But if you don’t have tio embed it all together so that you have to rewrite the entire text, you know, every three months, you’re going to save yourself a lot of time. 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You must have other ideas about that physical structure around around timesaving go ahead, please. So another one is, and this one is a little harder to explain without the screen shot in front of me, but what we used to dio is, you know, every page had a bunch of sub pages, and anytime self they needed to be updated on one of the sub page you work on the sub page, it would be this longer, bigger piece, and then, you know, you’d have to go to the page that was above them and like you had all these updates in different places, and what we’ve done is just eliminate a lot of that, and so will have an overview page that has, again the evergreen overview of here’s, the work that we’re doing and why it matters. And then we’ll link off to a few more timely things, like a block post about it or a press release, some kind of statement or testimony, and when that piece ages, we just delete the link. And so we keep that high level overview of what we’re working on and why they’re little supplementary pieces of it that give you a sense of what’s going on right now? But we haven’t built it in the structure of the site. We haven’t created extra pages, we haven’t, you know, built it into the menu, and once you build something into the menu that’s really tough because if you have four things in the menu, every one of them has to be updated. But if you could just have an overview page that refers to for things, you give yourself a lot more flexibility. Excellent, excellent! You got more that’s, a that’s, a great one, i think that’s about it for a structure there. I missed anything. No, that sounds good. I mean, one of the other things i knowthis is neatly under structure that we talk about is sort of using the work that you’re doing another channel. So let’s say you’ve got this great instagram presidents or you’re really active on facebook or you’re tweeting a lot and thinking about how to embed or bring that content in as a way to keep your sight feeling dynamic and what’s the right places for those things. Where should that live on your site? How should it live on your site? That’s another thing that we have people think about, okay, so it’s possible to have more than just a little little box recently sent tweets exactly what more can we didn’t mean? You could just have the most recent tweet you could, depending on how sophisticated your twitter ah, you know your your twitter tweeting is if you use specific hashtags, you can connect those hash hoexter appear on specific program pages or bio pages if staff members are mentioned by name or by twitter handle okay, yeah, things like that so just being like taking it up a notch, being a little bit more sophisticated with how you bring it in, but while we’re talking structure let’s also go into deep structure, which is actually the platform that you’re on. And this is another part of website e i love that i asked you before you kind of threw up your hands and and then a man came back and now now it’s come back in a deep strike now we’re getting deep deep here throw this goes into the category of invisible ways that your sight can be out of date, you know you can come to my site and you can’t tell easily if i’m running word pet press three point seven or four point two, but it matters, and if you fall too far behind on those updates, you open yourself up to security risk as well as not being able to take advantage of the latest developments on your platform. And this is something that i think a lot of the content specialists just don’t have on their radar and it’s something that you need tio have a sense of how often your platform updates, which are the updates that are important for you to take advantage of and then work with your vendor or your in house team to make sure that, you know, you’re sticking to a schedule and you’re not falling too far behind. Yeah, i mean, i think websites have sort of two sides, right there is the front end, which is what the user experience is what the person sees, what they can tell is happening with the organization based on your site, then there’s the back end, which people love when i say back in, then there is the back and that’s where they’re headed, right? And, you know i think you think people are thinking that because i’ve had people say it’s, because your mind is in the garden sometime sometime, i here i am back in altum now, maybe i don’t i don’t have the same day, and my body studio is okay. So the on the back end of the website, we’ve got your content management system and your constituent relationship management system, and sometimes the cms sincere amour love lovingly integrated sometimes they are two or twenty different systems that are connected to your site, depending on how you have it set up and it’s important again to think about as a staff you’re worrying about how those things work in secures point, you need to make sure you’re paying attention to both sides of the equation s so that the site is not only again representing you well, but also doing all the work it can for you and and supporting your fund-raising your outreach, whatever it might be that you need those systems to be working well and up to the latest date of what they can do for you care. When we did an overview, you mentioned accountability keeping you’re keeping yourself accountable, what’s what’s this about. Well, once you decide that you are going to stick to a certain update schedule, i mean it’s like sticking to a diet, right who’s going to be able to do that completely on their own without any sort of reminders or accountability, some of us can, but most of us can’t, and i can tell you one thing that definitely did not work for us, which was having the systems and automated reminders, you know? Hey, tony, this page is out of date, you might want to check it out just became anxiety producers and it’s so easy to ignore them because the system won’t know if i don’t do anything about ignore exactly. And so one of the things that we found is that in order to hold yourselves accountable, you really need a person to be part of that and there’s usually somebody on your team or associated with your team in some way, who is going to be open to taking on that roll. And, you know, one of the things that i encourage people to do is figure out who that person is embraced that about them, you know, used. There, there their charm and organizational skills. Thank you. Fair lovingly nudging. Yeah, and you know that that’s going to be the person who has all the spreadsheets and gets really anxious when deadlines are approaching, you want that person sharing that that skill with the rest of your team? Because otherwise it’s just too easy, like farrah was saying in the press of all of your communications and email schedule on all of that to just let this thing that feels not as urgent slide, but, you know, you do that too long, and all of a sudden you have five weeks of work backed up that you could have been tackling a little bit like a project manager function. Okay, the other thing we talked about this is about accountability, general, with all sorts of things is the racy model? Do you know that the r a, c i so that stands for responsible, accountable consultant informed, and the idea is that at the start of every project, you think about those different roles, so for example, we may be accountable to the executive director, but they don’t need to know they’re not they’re not responsible for things. That they don’t even have to be consulted are informed they just want their they’re ultimately accountable. Maybe they have to be informed, but the communications director has to be consulted, and then the communications manager is the person who’s actually responsible for getting it done. So thinking about those different levels of where people have to weigh in so that you’re not, you know, waiting on this, you’ve got this long list of pages, you have to go through ten people thinking about people’s different roles on that accountability scale could be very helpful, okay? And then another thing that you can do in addition to getting a person involved is think about how you’re presenting to yourselves, the work that needs to be done. So, like i said, it doesn’t work to just have a system generated email land in somebody’s email box, and nobody knows it’s there one of the things that has worked for us is to do a chart and the amount of red on the chart shows how many pages have past their expiration date on the site and visual yeah, eso to share that publicly and then there’s a sense of sort of shared accountability like, oh, how did the red get so big? And i’ve actually had the editors say, wait, can we wait just a couple more days before we make the next charge? Theo? Yeah, exactly out of the rain. It looks so much better if we could just getting forty eight, forty eight hours. Yeah, exactly. And so figuring out what the right tools are to motivate and and get your people feeling the urgency about it, i think it’s going to be different for every organization that’s one that’s worked for us. All right? We still have another couple minutes together, like, another three minutes or so. What? What else do you want to share that we haven’t talked about yet? I mean, one of things that we sort of end the session on is that people should make a road map for themselves. What? What should they be doing? As you know, is a result of thinking about this. What do they think they need to do immediately? That might be doing a sort of friend and sweep of the site and figuring out like, oh, my god, we have that, you know, what’s new section that hasn’t been updated in two years or, you know, put out the immediate fire is the low hanging fruit, as we like to say, so make a road map of what do i need to do this week? This month? What do i need to do over the next six months? What do i need to put on a schedule for next year and just really plotting out? What did you and making yourself unorganized way to think about it cause there will be it’s like anything? Lots of anxiety around this issue? Oh, god, and it really is i was doing it wrong, or i’m worried about it, but just really just try and plan it out, map it out and think about where is the biggest thing you need to put your attention on with the resources you have, kerry wanna add anything? Just that this is never challenged, that anybody has completely conquered, and even though i’m up here, you know, sharing tips and wisdom that have we’ve come across our site is not up to date entirely, you know, we haven’t gotten rid of the red on that chart, it’s, very brave of you and well. I’m sure if you poked around hard enough, you could find something that was obviously out of out of date. So it’s also being kind to yourself and acknowledging that this is something that you’re going to be working on for a while. All right, we have to do a shout out. Tio sarah, sarah, durum who’s the cold herself president or ceo and president the grand poobah i call her the big big duck of big. Alright and today your birthday have hurt the chariots. March forth it is four. So happy birthday sorrow they sarah happy twenty nine. Yes, of course. And she’s been on the show. She’s wanted me to get you for some time now. Here we are. Here we are. All right. We’re gonna leave it there. Thanks for having us. My pleasure. Thank you very much. Kira farrah trompeter is the vice president? Maybe someday i don’t know. I don’t know. I like it. So it spread like vice president you do. Alright, vice president of big duck. They’re consulting agency thinks a lot about brands and reputation in new york city. I’d like to visit your office any time. And kira marchenese very good, thank you. I names are important. See she’s, the senior director for digital strategy and platforms at the environmental defense fund and again farah kira, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, stony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen at the austin, texas convention center thanks so much for being with us. My thanks always to everybody at inten the non-profit technology network loved being at that conference each year, and i’m sure i’ll be there next year. Also next week it’s our twenty fiftieth show next week we’ve got giveaways in studio guests all the regular contributors have a comedy sketch, live music, a new sponsor and lots more going on two hundred fiftieth show fifth anniversary of the show we’ve been doing this each week for five years be with me next week are two hundred fiftieth show july twenty fourth. If you missed any part of the two hundred forty ninth show, find it on tony martignetti dot com opportunity collaboration with world convenes for poverty alleviation it’s an outstanding unconference that will ruin you for every other conference it’s over ninety three percent sold opportunity collaboration dot net our creative producer is claire markoff. Sam labor, which is the line producer show social media, is by susan chavez, susan chavez, dot com and our music is by scott stein. Thank you, scotty, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Hey! What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. I took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe. Add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.