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Nonprofit Radio for May 23, 2022: Many Ways To Test Your Digital Fundraising

 

Jeremy Haselwood: Many Ways To Test Your Digital Fundraising
As our #22NTC coverage continues, Jeremy Haselwood walks you through 30 variables you can test throughout your digital fundraising, including your homepage, donation pages, Facebook ads, and more. He’s from Fundraisers Unite.

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mm hmm. Hello

[00:00:12.80] spk_1:
and welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:00:26.24] spk_0:
Profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad

[00:00:28.04] spk_1:
you’re with me. I’d

[00:00:28.35] spk_0:
suffer the effects of

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osteoporosis if

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I had to raise my eyebrows to the idea that you missed this week’s show many ways to test your

[00:00:38.94] spk_1:
digital fundraising As our 22 NTC coverage continues,

[00:00:41.82] spk_0:
jeremy hazelwood walks you through lots of

[00:00:44.59] spk_1:
variables you can

[00:00:45.66] spk_0:
test throughout your

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digital fundraising,

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including your

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homepage donation pages, facebook ads and more.

[00:00:54.24] spk_0:
He’s from

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fundraisers

[00:00:56.13] spk_0:
unite

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On Tony’s take two doubling

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down on please share

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redux. We’re

[00:01:03.95] spk_0:
sponsored by turn to

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communications pr

[00:01:06.57] spk_0:
and content for

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nonprofits. Your

[00:01:14.04] spk_0:
story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C o. And by 4th dimension technologies

[00:01:16.94] spk_1:
I

[00:01:17.12] spk_0:
thi infra in a box

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the affordable tech solution for

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nonprofits.

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tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D. Just

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like three D.

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But they go one dimension deeper.

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Here

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is many ways to

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test your digital

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fundraising.

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Hello and

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welcome to

[00:02:11.54] spk_0:
Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 22 NTC 2022 nonprofit technology conference hosted by N 10. Those very smart folks who help you use technology as you are doing your mission as you are doing your social change work everyday. They’re helping you leverage technology. My guest now is jeremy hazelwood. He is digital fundraiser, author, trainer and marketer at fundraisers United Jeremy Welcome to nonprofit radio Hey, Tony, thank you for having me here. I’m so excited to be here and talk digital fundraising. Absolutely. That’s what we’re here to do. I’m glad you’re excited Thank you. Alright. I’m glad to see you get excited about digital fundraising man. It’s my passion. So it’s like I wake up and I’m, I’m excited every day because I get to help companies raise money and do more good in the world. So

[00:02:31.26] spk_1:
it took a while to figure

[00:03:16.54] spk_0:
out what it is that gets me up. But that’s, that’s definitely it. This is it. All right. And your session is aptly named 30 ways to test your digital fundraising. You would like to see nonprofits develop a testing plan testing regimen. Yeah, yeah. I think it’s something that’s very underutilized just in my experience working with nonprofit, especially from a digital side. Um, my background is like I worked for agencies that marketing and fundraising agencies that serve nonprofits heavy and direct mail. And my role with them was to really bring digital and make it, um, just a better channel for their clients to raise funds. I noticed they do a lot in testing when it comes to direct mail, but when it came to digital,

[00:03:17.90] spk_1:
it was kind of

[00:04:06.44] spk_0:
bland and one message and I’m like, there’s still so much that we can learn from digital, we can learn it so much more quickly than we can with direct mail. Okay. Um, is there a way that you’ve organized these, these 30 ways. I don’t know if we’ll be able to tick through all 30. Yeah, depending on how much you have to say about them, but we might, you know, we’ll see well organized by like channel um, facebook goal etcetera. Yeah, it’s actually funny. Like the original concept for this session, um, that I pitched to NtC was like 100 ways to test and it was gonna be a 60 minute session. Actually. No, no, that’s not. I have a, I have 100 ways to test within fundraisers unite. But for N TC, I was gonna do like 60 ways to test 60 and 60 minutes and then They’re like, well we only have the 30 minute sessions available. I’m like, let’s do 30 in 30 minutes. Um, 40, There you go. See the math works itself out. But, but for the sake

[00:04:21.13] spk_1:
of like organizing to

[00:04:22.15] spk_0:
your point. Um,

[00:04:23.16] spk_1:
I did, I focused

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on some specific areas. So I looked really

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at email, um

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social media,

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um, search

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engine marketing and

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let’s see

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um, donation page and social media. Really your facebook ads, not like all social, but so email, facebook ads. Search engine marketing, your donation page and your homepage. So these are

[00:04:45.20] spk_1:
The five areas that I

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focused on for the session

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for NtC.

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Okay, let’s start with the homepage and the donation pages because odds are

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everybody’s got one of those

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both of those and I do see some pretty weak donation pages, uh,

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lacking

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technology,

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lacking visual appeal.

[00:05:07.84] spk_0:
Um, so, but let’s, let’s start with, let’s start with the home page and you know, we’ll go beyond those two, but let’s make sure we cover the homepage and then donation pages. So what’s your advice around the homepage?

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Yeah,

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so with the homepage, I mean

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naturally it’s like

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you want your donation page, there’s so many boxes at the homepage, has to check when people come to your website, they need to know who you are, why you do what you do, who you do it for um in a way for people to connect with you. And some of

[00:05:36.31] spk_1:
the things that I talked about it and what people

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don’t realize too is like there’s things

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that you should test on your

[00:05:41.28] spk_0:
homepage. Um and there’s tools that you can use to test.

[00:05:44.03] spk_1:
Also, I didn’t get into the

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tools within the session,

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but you can use

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like um optimized

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lee or um

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omni convert. These are

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tools and

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actually google optimized you

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can use. These are tools that I

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we don’t have time to

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go into those, but what they

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essentially do is help

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you kind of a b test

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different elements on your homepage, for example, resources. Those

[00:06:04.69] spk_1:
3. 1 more time I’d like to

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share.

[00:06:06.47] spk_1:
Sure, sure. Optimized

[00:06:08.90] spk_0:
lee.

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Omni convert

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and google

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optimized and google

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optimize is free, but there are certain limitations, but

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basically these are

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like conversion rate

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optimization tools for your website or even

[00:06:23.94] spk_0:
for your donation page and to summarize

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what what these tools

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do is let’s say you’re one time that your homepage

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loads, You’ll

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get image a, as your homepage better and the next

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time your web page loads,

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it’ll be image

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B of the homepage banner.

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So it’s kind of randomized

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if you will, just

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to simplify. So

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when people see your

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website, they’ll get a version

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A and version be of your website.

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So you can test

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different things on your

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website, like an image

[00:06:50.23] spk_1:
or a call to action or a headline or

[00:06:52.27] spk_0:
something like that. Um, that’s generally what that does. Um, that’s again, I didn’t get into any of that because it does get to be a little more technical. Um, really what my point of my session was and really the point today is like,

[00:07:05.74] spk_1:
here’s what you

[00:07:06.65] spk_0:
can test and then we can also get into

[00:07:08.72] spk_1:
why it’s important to test,

[00:07:09.85] spk_0:
which a lot of it’s kind of common sense knowledge, but that’s not always common practice though. Um, but when it comes to your home page, one of

[00:07:17.79] spk_1:
the things that, that I

[00:07:18.71] spk_0:
always recommend is like testing like your hero image, which is like that first image that’s at the top of your home page. Um, some nonprofits might have a video running up there instead of an image, but testing that using, like, especially if you’re

[00:07:32.64] spk_1:
doing a campaign,

[00:07:34.34] spk_0:
um, if you’re running a

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campaign like right now, I don’t know

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when people will hear this, but let’s say it’s

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a springtime

[00:07:40.85] spk_0:
campaign, your email is springtime campaign oriented. You’re, let’s say you’re running

[00:07:45.74] spk_1:
facebook ads. It’s springtime campaign

[00:07:47.75] spk_0:
oriented. Um,

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so like let’s

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have like your

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hero image on your

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page be that

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same campaign

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as opposed to like

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here’s what we do or

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here’s how you can volunteer,

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like make that image

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coincide with the rest of your campaign elements.

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Right? Make

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it timely make it integrate

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with your campaigns,

[00:08:06.69] spk_0:
test that with the campaign versus not testing it if

[00:08:09.68] spk_1:
you don’t have the tools

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and watch

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how your donations

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will increase because that message is right there in

[00:08:15.19] spk_1:
the front for people to see.

[00:08:16.62] spk_0:
Um, so

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you know, that that’s one thing that you

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can test is your hero image using a campaign image as opposed to like a

[00:08:22.83] spk_1:
general branded image or

[00:08:28.24] spk_0:
some other kind of call to action image. Um, so I’ll pause there, see if you have questions or if you wanted me to

[00:08:30.72] spk_1:
kind of roll into the next

[00:08:31.91] spk_0:
one, you know, go to the

[00:08:32.85] spk_1:
go to the next homepage

[00:08:34.13] spk_0:
idea.

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Okay. Yeah. Next one would be like your

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donation

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button text. Um,

[00:08:40.04] spk_0:
pretty much every

[00:08:40.80] spk_1:
nonprofit. I haven’t

[00:08:42.02] spk_0:
Seen one and I don’t

[00:08:43.18] spk_1:
know how long

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that does not include that donate button

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up in the upper, usually

[00:08:47.38] spk_0:
right hand corner.

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Uh, and most of

[00:08:49.52] spk_0:
them will say donate and I think

[00:08:51.45] spk_1:
that’s fine. I don’t think

[00:08:52.42] spk_0:
there’s anything wrong with donate, but what if instead of donate it said give now

[00:08:58.04] spk_1:
or make

[00:08:58.64] spk_0:
a difference

[00:08:59.42] spk_1:
or feed a

[00:09:00.32] spk_0:
family, you know, whatever

[00:09:01.72] spk_1:
that call to action,

[00:09:02.71] spk_0:
maybe fund

[00:09:04.24] spk_1:
a research study.

[00:09:06.24] spk_0:
Um, so

[00:09:07.12] spk_1:
we’re very accustomed to just saying donate now because it’s

[00:09:09.60] spk_0:
very direct, but it’s also

[00:09:10.99] spk_1:
very transactional.

[00:09:12.48] spk_0:
Um, but again,

[00:09:13.54] spk_1:
I’m not saying that it’s,

[00:09:14.48] spk_0:
it’s not going to

[00:09:15.59] spk_1:
work for your organization, but if we

[00:09:16.97] spk_0:
don’t test, we don’t know

[00:09:18.19] spk_1:
right.

[00:09:18.86] spk_0:
Um, and I think there’s certain

[00:09:20.52] spk_1:
kind of boilerplate

[00:09:21.54] spk_0:
templates that is non profit as an

[00:09:23.94] spk_1:
industry we go

[00:09:24.86] spk_0:
with because we know that in general this

[00:09:27.09] spk_1:
is what’s supposed to work. And I don’t

[00:09:29.71] spk_0:
remember you

[00:09:30.76] spk_1:
remember years ago act Blue

[00:09:32.36] spk_0:
did well with Chip in.

[00:09:34.44] spk_1:
Yeah,

[00:09:36.06] spk_0:
something like

[00:09:36.69] spk_1:
that. But I’m sure they, I mean

[00:09:57.94] spk_0:
they have lots and lots of records that they’re mailing too. So I’m sure they tested and, and chip in. You saw the blue button and said and for them it was like chip in, you know? Yeah. Well, but, and even to that point it’s like chip in and that could be like vernacular. That’s that organization and their audiences like they associate with that non profit you know, So what’s the vernacular, the language

[00:10:00.72] spk_1:
that you’re a nonprofit would

[00:10:01.69] spk_0:
use, you know, maybe it is chip in, you know, maybe it’s feed a family, you know, whatever that is, but test that out. Um, if you don’t have, if you have zero data, your new nonprofit or you’ve never tested before, then you probably have data on what donate now is doing for you. Like let’s switch it for a month and try to keep everything constant If we, if we have too many factors going, we’re not going to know what works, you know, so you always want to change

[00:10:24.81] spk_1:
One thing at one time.

[00:10:26.14] spk_0:
Um, and if all

[00:10:26.91] spk_1:
things are the same and we

[00:10:28.01] spk_0:
only changed the text on that donated button, then it’s a pretty safe bet that the donate button was the reason that, you know, the,

[00:10:35.49] spk_1:
that we got and you can

[00:10:38.54] spk_0:
also test it with. I’m trying to think of some of the other

[00:10:39.85] spk_1:
tools. Um, well even the tools

[00:10:42.64] spk_0:
that I mentioned, they can test conversion rates and things like that.

[00:10:45.52] spk_1:
But because

[00:10:46.50] spk_0:
I know one pieces, like we talked about testing, but then there’s like,

[00:10:48.91] spk_1:
how do you measure the testing? Um,

[00:10:50.85] spk_0:
and one is if you’re, you’re not using any

[00:10:53.25] spk_1:
tools, it’s just kind of how did we do last month

[00:10:57.44] spk_0:
versus how we do this month? Um, did we change anything

[00:10:58.99] spk_1:
else? No, Then we can probably attribute it to this and that’s kind of the

[00:11:02.54] spk_0:
roundabout. Like

[00:11:03.49] spk_1:
we can probably attribute it to this.

[00:11:05.50] spk_0:
Um, if

[00:11:06.52] spk_1:
smaller, medium

[00:11:07.67] spk_0:
sized nonprofits

[00:11:08.40] spk_1:
may not have the budget

[00:11:09.68] spk_0:
to actually put the analytics and technology behind

[00:11:12.16] spk_1:
knowing for sure

[00:11:13.50] spk_0:
what

[00:11:14.30] spk_1:
the difference maker was. But if you’re

[00:11:16.18] spk_0:
looking for some data points like that’s certainly something that can help is

[00:11:20.11] spk_1:
swapping it out and keeping

[00:11:21.35] spk_0:
everything else the same.

[00:12:07.14] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications, Content creation and content management, What projects do you have that they can take off your plate, lift these weights from your shoulders? Content creation Is there some writing project some series that you need to do or that you’ve been thinking about doing you’d like to do for internal audiences. External board donor’s community. What writing projects can they take off your plate and then the content management and also the distribution. Getting you the

[00:12:07.84] spk_0:
placements and

[00:12:49.14] spk_1:
as well as managing that content for you on your site, whether that’s blog, wherever you may, print or digital. Right, Alright. So how can they help you with content creation, content management and then also the distribution, getting the, getting your good word, you as an opinion leader, thought leader in your community. Getting that out. Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to many ways to test your digital fundraising.

[00:12:54.74] spk_0:
You made the point a

[00:12:56.05] spk_1:
couple of times, keeping everything

[00:12:57.26] spk_0:
else the same. I

[00:12:58.88] spk_1:
guess if you if you change a few things

[00:13:01.05] spk_0:
or a bunch of things

[00:13:02.54] spk_1:
and your outcomes improved,

[00:13:07.04] spk_0:
I guess

[00:13:07.82] spk_1:
by outcomes, you know,

[00:13:08.65] spk_0:
we’re keeping it simple. So we’re saying

[00:13:10.00] spk_1:
donations improved.

[00:13:11.67] spk_0:
Then

[00:13:12.47] spk_1:
then then

[00:13:13.21] spk_0:
then that’s terrific.

[00:13:14.25] spk_1:
But if donations declined

[00:13:16.35] spk_0:
and you don’t know what it is that you changed that caused them to

[00:13:19.14] spk_1:
decline. So then you have to go back to where you were in the beginning

[00:13:22.43] spk_0:
and then

[00:13:23.39] spk_1:
iterative lee changed

[00:13:26.44] spk_0:
one thing at a time and

[00:13:26.59] spk_1:
figure out what what what

[00:13:29.24] spk_0:
is, what is, what

[00:13:29.49] spk_1:
is it that’s depressing

[00:13:30.73] spk_0:
your,

[00:13:31.56] spk_1:
your outcomes and change that one little thing

[00:13:33.92] spk_0:
and then and then test and see

[00:13:35.54] spk_1:
if you, you get higher

[00:13:36.53] spk_0:
than your baseline.

[00:13:38.54] spk_1:
Yeah, exactly. Because the

[00:13:43.75] spk_0:
tests that I’m talking about in the test

[00:13:45.31] spk_1:
will go through. It’s like

[00:13:46.44] spk_0:
these are tests that you do one at a time. I’m not like

[00:13:48.64] spk_1:
here’s 50 things

[00:13:49.62] spk_0:
you can test and let’s do them all at once.

[00:13:51.65] spk_1:
Because if you think about if you

[00:13:53.03] spk_0:
change that button, if you

[00:13:54.08] spk_1:
change it to say give

[00:13:55.37] spk_0:
now instead of donate now and

[00:13:57.07] spk_1:
it goes to your landing page. But you’ve

[00:13:58.64] spk_0:
also changed an image

[00:14:00.23] spk_1:
or headline or something on the

[00:14:02.54] spk_0:
landing page, then we don’t know if

[00:14:03.10] spk_1:
you’ve got more donations

[00:14:04.08] spk_0:
because you change something on your landing page or if

[00:14:06.55] spk_1:
you change something on that button that got them to the landing page. So

[00:14:10.47] spk_0:
you know the, the need

[00:14:11.79] spk_1:
to put together kind of a testing

[00:14:13.17] spk_0:
roadmap um,

[00:14:14.35] spk_1:
would be something that you would want to do for your organization and be like here

[00:14:17.76] spk_0:
and it takes time

[00:14:18.74] spk_1:
because you can only test

[00:14:19.78] spk_0:
one thing at a time. So it’s like

[00:14:20.87] spk_1:
here’s what we’re going to test

[00:14:22.07] spk_0:
in this calendar year and then whether it’s

[00:14:24.97] spk_1:
bi weekly, weekly,

[00:14:26.41] spk_0:
monthly, whatever it is, you know, having that plan laid out the

[00:14:29.73] spk_1:
to learn

[00:14:30.52] spk_0:
because the whole point of testing is like we want to learn,

[00:14:32.75] spk_1:
we want to raise more

[00:14:33.59] spk_0:
money for

[00:14:34.88] spk_1:
less cost

[00:14:35.65] spk_0:
of, of a transaction to obtain that donation and we

[00:14:39.13] spk_1:
want to learn more creative

[00:14:40.54] spk_0:
works. How many hits do we need?

[00:14:42.93] spk_1:
What’s a, what’s a

[00:14:44.24] spk_0:
sample size that

[00:14:45.20] spk_1:
we can rely on

[00:14:47.04] spk_0:
uh,

[00:14:47.69] spk_1:
to draw conclusions from?

[00:14:49.84] spk_0:
Yeah, that’s actually a really good question.

[00:14:52.72] spk_1:
Um, and I

[00:14:53.53] spk_0:
don’t, I don’t have like an answer

[00:14:55.01] spk_1:
that other than the

[00:14:55.97] spk_0:
generic. It depends.

[00:14:57.49] spk_1:
You know, I think

[00:14:58.69] spk_0:
if you’re a smaller nonprofit

[00:15:00.45] spk_1:
that doesn’t

[00:15:01.89] spk_0:
get a lot of traffic to your homepage in this case, then I mean

[00:15:06.04] spk_1:
where it could take

[00:15:07.08] spk_0:
you months to get enough traffic, you know, which is

[00:15:09.83] spk_1:
kind of like the sad thing about

[00:15:11.44] spk_0:
a nonprofit that doesn’t get a

[00:15:12.55] spk_1:
lot of traffic is when will,

[00:15:14.09] spk_0:
you know, we’ve, we have enough data to learn something. You

[00:15:17.83] spk_1:
know, I think it’s quicker to

[00:15:19.08] spk_0:
learn like with like

[00:15:20.11] spk_1:
advertising where you can actually have a budget and it will

[00:15:22.88] spk_0:
kind of force impressions

[00:15:24.16] spk_1:
to your website.

[00:15:25.25] spk_0:
Um, in that case, like

[00:15:26.78] spk_1:
I usually like to have,

[00:15:28.54] spk_0:
I mean at least a few 1000 clicks. Uh, so

[00:15:31.45] spk_1:
we kind of have enough data to make

[00:15:33.33] spk_0:
a decision.

[00:15:34.27] spk_1:
Uh, with the

[00:15:35.33] spk_0:
website, I mean going by that, I mean there’s, there’s some small

[00:15:39.98] spk_1:
nonprofits that may not get a

[00:15:41.99] spk_0:
1000 visits to their website in

[00:15:44.71] spk_1:
half a year or a whole year.

[00:15:46.38] spk_0:
You know? Um,

[00:15:47.58] spk_1:
in which case maybe

[00:15:48.65] spk_0:
you want to test something else

[00:15:49.82] spk_1:
1st? Maybe when you’re

[00:15:50.78] spk_0:
prioritizing exactly exactly. It’s

[00:15:56.07] spk_1:
like, where? Which

[00:15:57.17] spk_0:
I think, And I

[00:15:57.93] spk_1:
didn’t really think about this

[00:15:58.96] spk_0:
when I put it together. But

[00:16:00.14] spk_1:
that’s actually a really good question. Because when you look at all the things

[00:16:03.04] spk_0:
that you can test with your

[00:16:04.08] spk_1:
nonprofit, it’s like, what makes the

[00:16:05.89] spk_0:
most sense to test? Like where do

[00:16:07.48] spk_1:
we have the most data? Where are we getting the most

[00:16:09.60] spk_0:
traction? Maybe it’s a social

[00:16:10.80] spk_1:
media post. Maybe we have a good

[00:16:12.25] spk_0:
audience on social media.

[00:16:13.75] spk_1:
So, let’s test

[00:16:14.95] spk_0:
some of our posts

[00:16:15.76] spk_1:
there because

[00:16:16.98] spk_0:
we know we have a bigger sample

[00:16:18.41] spk_1:
size that we can work

[00:16:20.84] spk_0:
with. Okay. All right.

[00:16:21.40] spk_1:
Well, so your host

[00:16:23.74] spk_0:
is uh, chosen to start

[00:16:24.62] spk_1:
with the homepage

[00:16:25.72] spk_0:
because it’s ubiquitous. Everybody has one.

[00:16:27.98] spk_1:
But with the

[00:16:29.06] spk_0:
caveat that it may not be the right place for you to start your testing.

[00:16:32.63] spk_1:
If you have if

[00:16:33.92] spk_0:
you don’t have a lot of traffic to your homepage. Alright,

[00:16:36.02] spk_1:
let’s stick with the homepage. You got another, you

[00:16:40.24] spk_0:
got another one or two ideas. The homepage, and then we’ll move on. Yeah. Some other

[00:16:41.27] spk_1:
Ideas for the homepage. one

[00:16:44.54] spk_0:
would be, um,

[00:16:45.28] spk_1:
the, like the light box.

[00:16:46.53] spk_0:
So when you come to a website and

[00:16:48.89] spk_1:
people call

[00:16:50.06] spk_0:
them light boxes, they call them pop ups,

[00:16:52.17] spk_1:
Interstitial,

[00:16:53.66] spk_0:
you know, there’s different names for them. Kind of the common name. Yeah. That’s

[00:16:57.06] spk_1:
the more technical. Yeah. Which I never used

[00:17:02.89] spk_0:
Exactly. 100%, 100%. Because you say that like the, you know.

[00:17:13.34] spk_1:
Exactly, Yeah. The bigger words

[00:17:16.14] spk_0:
aren’t always better.

[00:17:17.14] spk_1:
And when I

[00:17:17.97] spk_0:
talked to my, my tech and

[00:17:19.67] spk_1:
my developer friends and they’re

[00:17:22.54] spk_0:
telling me what it is, I’m like,

[00:17:22.94] spk_1:
okay, how can I take what they

[00:17:24.31] spk_0:
said and translate it

[00:17:25.39] spk_1:
just to everyday common

[00:17:26.58] spk_0:
terms. And sometimes I’m like, I

[00:17:27.98] spk_1:
have no idea what you’re talking

[00:17:29.24] spk_0:
about,

[00:17:30.62] spk_1:
but we have drug in

[00:17:31.55] spk_0:
jail on nonprofit radio

[00:17:33.93] spk_1:
I don’t know if I have no idea what you’re

[00:17:35.25] spk_0:
talking about. You know, I’ll stop

[00:17:37.31] spk_1:
you. So if you had

[00:17:38.28] spk_0:
introduced it with

[00:17:39.57] spk_1:
traditional

[00:17:40.10] spk_0:
transitional, you know,

[00:17:41.59] spk_1:
yeah, whatever.

[00:17:45.54] spk_0:
But like, yeah, you see,

[00:17:46.23] spk_1:
I didn’t introduce,

[00:17:47.54] spk_0:
Yeah. Because you

[00:17:48.25] spk_1:
got to know who the audience is, right?

[00:17:50.11] spk_0:
So if this was

[00:17:51.11] spk_1:
like for a tech blog or

[00:17:52.33] spk_0:
something, I’m like the interstitial.

[00:17:53.97] spk_1:
But no, we’re talking about just non profit let’s start with the base like, you know, um,

[00:17:58.57] spk_0:
let’s just

[00:17:59.56] spk_1:
the basics here. So yeah,

[00:18:00.58] spk_0:
pop up a

[00:18:01.67] spk_1:
lightbox testing

[00:18:03.24] spk_0:
that. And I say tested and, and

[00:18:04.53] spk_1:
a lot of these things I’m saying test,

[00:18:06.28] spk_0:
but in my

[00:18:07.98] spk_1:
own way I’m saying

[00:18:14.64] spk_0:
do this, I’m not saying tested because like light boxes are so effective. Like pretty much no matter how you’re using if using them for email acquisition,

[00:18:17.96] spk_1:
if you’re using them to

[00:18:19.08] spk_0:
promote a campaign

[00:18:20.07] spk_1:
to increase your donations.

[00:18:21.53] spk_0:
Um, what I find

[00:18:23.35] spk_1:
though is a lot of

[00:18:24.32] spk_0:
nonprofits

[00:18:25.23] spk_1:
and I say that a lot, a lot

[00:18:26.49] spk_0:
of non profits, but

[00:18:27.40] spk_1:
it is true,

[00:18:28.61] spk_0:
um, that they’re

[00:18:32.54] spk_1:
like, well I don’t like pop ups, so I don’t want to use them, you know, But it’s not really about what you like because your

[00:18:35.06] spk_0:
donors and your website visitors

[00:18:36.84] spk_1:
probably don’t

[00:18:37.64] spk_0:
like a lot of pop ups

[00:18:38.63] spk_1:
either. But the data

[00:18:40.42] spk_0:
doesn’t lie. Like

[00:18:41.60] spk_1:
these things do work.

[00:18:42.84] spk_0:
And the reason they work is

[00:18:44.17] spk_1:
there’s nothing else that you

[00:18:45.26] spk_0:
can do on the homepage when that

[00:18:47.44] spk_1:
pop up comes on the screen other

[00:18:49.05] spk_0:
than click it and turn

[00:18:50.20] spk_1:
it off or do the

[00:18:51.90] spk_0:
action that it says there’s

[00:18:53.06] spk_1:
two choices. If someone goes straight to your

[00:18:56.24] spk_0:
website, they’ve

[00:18:56.39] spk_1:
got probably 20 different choices, click on your,

[00:18:58.92] spk_0:
contact us, click

[00:19:00.10] spk_1:
on an image,

[00:19:01.16] spk_0:
submit an email, click on any of your menu items. Like there’s so many different choices

[00:19:06.21] spk_1:
that you can make. But that pop up is like A or B. Do I

[00:19:09.66] spk_0:
close this and look at the website or do I hit the donate button or do I put my email in and submit it and now I’m a subscriber. So

[00:19:17.04] spk_1:
they’re extremely

[00:19:17.69] spk_0:
effective. Yeah, 100%. So

[00:19:22.73] spk_1:
yeah, so they

[00:19:24.13] spk_0:
work. But I’m saying tested because the thing is like, I’ve never seen it not work. So maybe your nonprofit is different and maybe you can test it with running with the campaign and if you didn’t raise any more money, which if that happens, like

[00:19:37.14] spk_1:
I’d love for those people to reach out

[00:19:39.44] spk_0:
to me because I want to

[00:19:39.94] spk_1:
know who those organizations are

[00:19:41.40] spk_0:
because it’s like,

[00:19:42.34] spk_1:
well I’ve never heard of that but

[00:19:44.12] spk_0:
here’s maybe some other

[00:21:16.84] spk_1:
things that you can strike. It’s time for a break. Fourth dimension technologies. Their I. T. Solution is I. T. Infra. In a box. It’s budget friendly. It’s holistic. It’s the buffet of I. T. Solutions because you pick what you need and you leave the rest you needn’t hire them for all the services that they can do. They’ve got this I. T. Infra in a box for you to choose from like overall I. T. Assessment whether you want to implement multifactor authentication which a lot of people are saying is a very good idea. We’ve had guests saying exactly that um there might be other security for your site for your devices those mobile devices that are in people’s homes. Now cost analysis help desk. Do you need help that way with tech with like tech support and there’s more in the I. T. In for in a box you choose what’s right for your current I. T. Status. What’s right for your budget? Yeah leave the rest behind fourth dimension technologies tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. Now back to many ways to test your digital fundraising with jeremy hazelwood. There are variables within the pop

[00:21:18.78] spk_0:
up that you can test how

[00:21:20.68] spk_1:
long a delay

[00:21:21.65] spk_0:
how long is someone on your homepage before it before

[00:21:23.93] spk_1:
it pops up?

[00:21:25.14] spk_0:
Of course what’s the text that’s in it again.

[00:21:28.40] spk_1:
What’s the button that’s

[00:21:29.43] spk_0:
in it. You have to have a button labeled that’s in it,

[00:21:32.14] spk_1:
Right.

[00:21:34.14] spk_0:
Yeah. What’s the offer?

[00:21:35.26] spk_1:
You know? So it could be

[00:21:36.35] spk_0:
$10 equals this or

[00:21:37.95] spk_1:
$50 equals that.

[00:21:39.17] spk_0:
So yeah, there’s

[00:21:40.14] spk_1:
probably a whole other

[00:21:41.73] spk_0:
15 different tests

[00:21:43.11] spk_1:
that you can run just within that. But let’s

[00:21:45.17] spk_0:
start at the basics. Okay. Give us one more for the homepage.

[00:21:49.74] spk_1:
Yeah. One more for the home page. And this is

[00:21:51.37] spk_0:
really simple. But um what

[00:21:53.54] spk_1:
about a donate button at the bottom of your

[00:21:55.59] spk_0:
page? Um And the reason that I say

[00:21:58.00] spk_1:
that is when people scroll

[00:21:59.98] spk_0:
pasture

[00:22:00.81] spk_1:
donate button, if your

[00:22:01.73] spk_0:
menu isn’t like what they call a

[00:22:03.09] spk_1:
sticky menu meaning when you scroll that top menu stays there

[00:22:06.11] spk_0:
and the donate button is

[00:22:07.05] spk_1:
always there or your

[00:22:07.94] spk_0:
menu is always there.

[00:22:09.29] spk_1:
Um If you don’t have that

[00:22:11.04] spk_0:
then you’re

[00:22:11.69] spk_1:
scrolling and that donate has come off

[00:22:13.45] spk_0:
of of the homepage off the

[00:22:15.66] spk_1:
top. So as you scroll down, you’re reading about who we are, what we do, why we do

[00:22:19.51] spk_0:
it. Um It’s just kind of a

[00:22:20.99] spk_1:
natural, here’s the next step,

[00:22:22.65] spk_0:
you know, donate.

[00:22:23.86] spk_1:
Um So it’s

[00:22:24.93] spk_0:
just right in the user flow. The user doesn’t

[00:22:26.55] spk_1:
have to scroll back up

[00:22:27.70] spk_0:
and find the donate or click the donate or

[00:22:30.68] spk_1:
even if they didn’t

[00:22:31.74] spk_0:
like if they kind of psychological or mentally

[00:22:34.20] spk_1:
blocked out that donate button when they came to your

[00:22:36.37] spk_0:
page? Is there

[00:22:37.43] spk_1:
scrolling through? Its in

[00:22:38.43] spk_0:
the natural progression

[00:22:39.60] spk_1:
of how they’re reading your

[00:22:40.44] spk_0:
page and that donate button is right there at the bottom. So

[00:22:43.67] spk_1:
um test that

[00:22:44.70] spk_0:
out, see if it’s something that you’re able to get more donations throughout the month. Um

[00:22:49.62] spk_1:
I don’t this is

[00:22:50.90] spk_0:
not something where you’re gonna earn like a ridiculous amount of conversions or donations

[00:22:55.94] spk_1:
From but even if you have like five

[00:23:08.34] spk_0:
more donations a month because you put a button at the bottom of your page, like wouldn’t that be worth the the 10 minutes it takes to put the button on your site And I think it would be, let’s go to the donation page. Okay cool. So donation and let’s say I’m looking at my my list over here. Okay, so donation

[00:23:17.47] spk_1:
page, one of the things that’s

[00:23:19.00] spk_0:
important to um

[00:23:20.42] spk_1:
a number of donors

[00:23:21.90] spk_0:
is is my donation secure and I don’t think it’s as much of a concern now as it

[00:23:27.06] spk_1:
was maybe even five

[00:23:31.14] spk_0:
years ago but there’s still people that are leery too uh do transactions online.

[00:23:33.12] spk_1:
Um We’re with

[00:23:33.97] spk_0:
the nonprofit. It’s like well I don’t know this nonprofit is going to take care of my data and hopefully your nonprofit is like your donation page should be the H. T. T. P. S. Meaning that it’s a secure page

[00:23:46.12] spk_1:
anyways

[00:23:46.87] spk_0:
but just putting some kind of

[00:23:48.83] spk_1:
Burbage

[00:23:50.34] spk_0:
or a visual indication that it is safe transaction

[00:23:55.19] spk_1:
on your website. So it could be

[00:23:56.44] spk_0:
something as simple as saying your transaction is secure like ssl security or putting like an image of a lock saying your transaction is secured. So doing that versus not having any language in there at all about a secure

[00:24:10.37] spk_1:
transaction.

[00:24:32.24] spk_0:
You can make a difference in someone going ahead and clicking that submit button on the donate because they could get as far as just putting all their information in. But they’re still kind of on the fence like, you know, if they’re nervous about giving online or giving because they don’t see any language that says their donation is secure because I’ve even experienced this to my house like myself personally, there’s some websites

[00:24:33.24] spk_1:
I’m not as

[00:24:36.94] spk_0:
familiar with and if I don’t see that language, then I

[00:24:37.58] spk_1:
may not actually

[00:24:38.55] spk_0:
include. I may not actually purchase whatever it is I’m purchasing and I’m not even talking about nonprofits. I’m talking about more like online retail. Um, so it gives the donor confidence in what they’re doing. So that’s something that you can test having that language on there versus just excluding it. Um, and seeing if

[00:24:55.04] spk_1:
that makes a difference in

[00:24:58.14] spk_0:
your conversion rates and you know, folks might say well, but people could look at the address bar and they can see if it’s https and, and lots of browsers have a lock when it is a secure site. I don’t know if all browsers, I use Safari

[00:25:12.79] spk_1:
predominantly. So

[00:25:13.69] spk_0:
I don’t know if all browsers do that, but, but

[00:25:15.73] spk_1:
even if they do,

[00:25:20.64] spk_0:
you know, think of older folks who are not so savvy they don’t know to look for https.

[00:25:22.05] spk_1:
So

[00:26:02.44] spk_0:
if you don’t, you know, what does it cost to put a sentence in with a little lock picture, it says, you know, it’s, it’s secured, encrypted on both ends, right? With 2 56 bit ssl technology or something, you know, something legitimate. I’m not saying make it up, but yeah, I remember you’re not doing it right. You know, I’m not, Yeah. Now this is the fraud how to test the fraud component of your donation. You don’t have to test for fraud. You don’t have to test fraud. Just don’t do that, don’t do it, you know? But if you’re, if yes, put put something in that’s reassuring to folks, especially older folks who may not know to look at the address bar. Right. Yeah. Alright. Alright. What else, what else for the donation pages? Um, one thing that I’ve seen more

[00:26:12.93] spk_1:
recently in the past

[00:26:39.54] spk_0:
Maybe 2-3 years and I want to say that there might even be specific, um, Tech companies that process donations for nonprofits and I can’t tell you who they are because I’m not sure which one’s doing and which ones don’t. Um, but highlighting like a certain gift that might say most popular gifts. So if you have like a $25 gift and $50 or 200 whatever that, you know procession of gift handles is There might be one

[00:26:40.24] spk_1:
that’s highlighted.

[00:26:41.34] spk_0:
Um, and it says most popular, but what it does and it’s

[00:26:44.91] spk_1:
usually not the lowest

[00:27:23.64] spk_0:
One because I might go to a site like I’m gonna give them $25, but then when I get there it has this $50 and it’s highlighted and it says most popular and so now there’s this social pressure to be like, well that’s the most popular. Like I don’t want to give less than what it is. So I guess I’m gonna give $50 instead of $25. Um So again, it’s, it’s, that’s kind of like a marketing trick if you will, but it does work. Um and you know, whether it’s the most popular or not, I mean again, that’s when you get into the ethics behind it, like, you know, um, you don’t necessarily have to say most popular, you could say, you know more

[00:27:24.31] spk_1:
impact or the

[00:27:25.12] spk_0:
most impact or something like that. There’s ways that you can word it, but

[00:27:28.99] spk_1:
the whole point is you’re

[00:27:29.88] spk_0:
drawing attention to a specific gift amount. Um that’s

[00:27:33.07] spk_1:
probably more reasonable. It’s not like you’re high

[00:27:35.46] spk_0:
like 500

[00:27:36.29] spk_1:
dollar gift, but it’s not

[00:27:37.37] spk_0:
Like you’re 10 20

[00:27:38.36] spk_1:
$5 gift either.

[00:27:39.60] spk_0:
Um, So

[00:27:42.24] spk_1:
what I found is that when you, when you do

[00:27:42.78] spk_0:
use some kind of language and highlight one particular giving level that it does result

[00:27:47.32] spk_1:
in higher conversions.

[00:27:48.53] spk_0:
Um, and again, this is my ash

[00:27:50.42] spk_1:
tricks with everything

[00:27:51.94] spk_0:
we’re calling it a test because this is what I’ve seen

[00:27:54.67] spk_1:
with nonprofits that I’ve worked

[00:27:55.86] spk_0:
with and research that I’ve done. But you have to test

[00:27:58.85] spk_1:
and see if this is the case

[00:27:59.82] spk_0:
for your non profit as well.

[00:28:01.44] spk_1:
That’s a good one. Like

[00:28:03.24] spk_0:
that average gift most

[00:28:04.85] spk_1:
popular gift. Most

[00:28:06.16] spk_0:
impactful.

[00:28:07.03] spk_1:
Alright. What else you got? Yeah.

[00:28:09.13] spk_0:
And the

[00:28:09.67] spk_1:
other one I have is kind of in the

[00:28:10.72] spk_0:
same vein as this and

[00:28:11.87] spk_1:
it’s really like your

[00:28:12.65] spk_0:
donation handles and your impact. Um

[00:28:15.59] spk_1:
So if you’re like an

[00:28:17.94] spk_0:
example of if

[00:28:18.09] spk_1:
you’re a nonprofit that does a few different things

[00:28:19.91] spk_0:
like for example, maybe like a rescue

[00:28:21.55] spk_1:
mission, like they do

[00:28:22.56] spk_0:
housing, they do food, they may do

[00:28:25.11] spk_1:
adult rehab

[00:28:26.98] spk_0:
kinds of programs. Um, so you can like test and

[00:28:30.76] spk_1:
there’s a lot to test in

[00:28:31.84] spk_0:
just these three different areas. You can test dollar amounts

[00:28:34.85] spk_1:
for these. So if you want to just look at housing,

[00:28:37.62] spk_0:
You can say, you know, $30 equals X. nights

[00:28:40.49] spk_1:
Of shelter, $60

[00:28:42.25] spk_0:
equals X nights. 100 equals

[00:28:43.71] spk_1:
X nights. You could

[00:28:44.83] spk_0:
test these against each other

[00:28:49.04] spk_1:
and have all of the gift channels at like $50, but $50 will help do

[00:28:50.12] spk_0:
X nights of shelter.

[00:28:51.43] spk_1:
$50 will help

[00:28:52.59] spk_0:
by X amount of

[00:28:53.40] spk_1:
Meals or $50 to

[00:28:55.04] spk_0:
send X amount

[00:28:56.02] spk_1:
of adults through rehab.

[00:28:57.55] spk_0:
And that way you learn about

[00:28:58.73] spk_1:
what your donors are more interested in. Um,

[00:29:01.69] spk_0:
so there’s ways that you can learn

[00:29:06.84] spk_1:
About that either way with, with that example, you’ll still get $50. But we, we test because we also want

[00:29:09.64] spk_0:
to learn more

[00:29:09.93] spk_1:
about our donors and more about what

[00:29:11.28] spk_0:
works. So if people

[00:29:12.24] spk_1:
respond better to a food offer versus the housing offer,

[00:29:15.62] spk_0:
then that might help us

[00:29:16.68] spk_1:
create a campaign,

[00:29:18.04] spk_0:
you know,

[00:29:18.98] spk_1:
in the calendar year at

[00:29:19.96] spk_0:
some point. That’s more around

[00:29:21.24] spk_1:
food. Um, and taking what

[00:29:23.00] spk_0:
we learned from this test.

[00:29:24.45] spk_1:
Um, so that’s one

[00:29:38.84] spk_0:
thing an NtC guest, uh, and he said they tested whether Children who are sick or Children who are hospitalized is has a greater impact. And

[00:29:41.68] spk_1:
intuitively you would think it would be the Children who

[00:29:43.54] spk_0:
are hospitalized

[00:29:44.63] spk_1:
because they’re the sickest of the among

[00:29:46.42] spk_0:
the sick. But

[00:29:47.56] spk_1:
turned out not to be

[00:29:48.19] spk_0:
true. They were getting more click throughs and more donations when

[00:29:51.52] spk_1:
they highlighted Children who

[00:29:52.66] spk_0:
were sick

[00:29:53.87] spk_1:
versus

[00:29:54.50] spk_0:
hospitalized.

[00:29:55.64] spk_1:
Intuition is

[00:29:57.83] spk_0:
not always correct. That’s why

[00:29:59.01] spk_1:
we test. Another

[00:30:00.05] spk_0:
reason, you know, like you said earlier, it doesn’t matter what

[00:30:03.25] spk_1:
you, the ceo

[00:30:04.88] spk_0:
or you, the chief fundraiser prefer. It matters what

[00:30:07.81] spk_1:
your donors

[00:30:09.08] spk_0:
and potential donors prefer.

[00:30:10.70] spk_1:
So you know, you

[00:30:12.54] spk_0:
have to ignore your intuition.

[00:30:13.90] spk_1:
You have to ignore your own

[00:30:15.94] spk_0:
preferences and do what Jeremy is saying and

[00:31:41.74] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s take two. I’m doubling down on the redox who can you share non profit radio with, please think about colleagues, friends, folks who work for nonprofits serve on boards of nonprofits. Maybe they’re even avid volunteers, it’s a possibility these folks will learn from nonprofit radio the same as you are, share the share the knowledge, share the good, non profit radio vibe, share the pleasure, share, what else is there? Um, double the enjoyment? No, well you could double, you can triple the enjoyment. So please think about who you can share. non profit radio with, connect them with me, you can connect them with one of my social posts. Uh, connect them to tony-martignetti dot com share this show this episode however you can do it. I’d be grateful. Who can you share? non profit radio with thank you. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for many ways to test your digital fundraising. I do like most of my work is with

[00:31:43.39] spk_0:
non province, but I do some, I have some clients that are in the commercial

[00:31:46.87] spk_1:
world and they were

[00:31:47.79] spk_0:
running a

[00:31:48.56] spk_1:
facebook ad recently and they provided me with copy and I was looking at it and I was like, oh, this is terrible, this is not. And

[00:31:55.12] spk_0:
usually if I see something that is

[00:31:57.28] spk_1:
like, I don’t think it’s going to work like I’ll say, hey, what if we say this instead of that? And even with

[00:32:03.14] spk_0:
that? I’m like, what if

[00:32:03.40] spk_1:
we change, it’s like, well we want to try to run this first and just see, I’m like, all right and I thought it was

[00:32:07.87] spk_0:
going to Bomb and it actually

[00:32:08.95] spk_1:
did really good

[00:32:09.83] spk_0:
despite what

[00:32:11.20] spk_1:
I thought was going to work. Um, so that’s why it’s like I’m saying

[00:32:15.12] spk_0:
these things and in

[00:32:16.10] spk_1:
general, like you’ll see in the majority of cases, what we’re talking about, there will be a positive impact. Um, but these are not guaranteed. I’m not saying like, here are all the things that you should do if you want

[00:32:25.16] spk_0:
your nonprofit to succeed,

[00:32:26.47] spk_1:
what you need to do to succeed is

[00:32:28.27] spk_0:
to test and then

[00:32:29.34] spk_1:
find out what works. But those things like, let’s give

[00:32:31.73] spk_0:
some ideas. Like

[00:32:32.67] spk_1:
we just don’t be stagnant. If we have the same website, the same emails,

[00:32:36.21] spk_0:
the same everything

[00:32:37.20] spk_1:
Over a 12-month period. We have learned nothing about what we need to do to better serve our

[00:32:41.12] spk_0:
donors and and

[00:32:42.38] spk_1:
really better

[00:32:46.74] spk_0:
enable the services that we have because if we’re not learning how we

[00:32:47.14] spk_1:
can better serve our donors and how we can

[00:32:49.14] spk_0:
generate more money for nonprofit

[00:32:51.01] spk_1:
and still take care of our

[00:32:51.97] spk_0:
donors, then we’re doing a disservice down

[00:32:53.89] spk_1:
the road for the people

[00:33:09.54] spk_0:
or animals or whatever environment, whatever our nonprofit is serving. We’re doing that in other realms. We’re making sure we have programs that are appealing to donors, making sure we have events that are appealing to donors. We make sure we have fundraisers who are appealing to donors, right. Your staff is turning your donors off. That’s bad. You’re gonna, you’re gonna remove the people from the fundraising role. So, you know, in

[00:33:20.67] spk_1:
your digital and your digital

[00:33:21.73] spk_0:
marketing and fundraising as well.

[00:33:23.17] spk_1:
You want to appeal

[00:33:24.48] spk_0:
to your donors and your potential donors, you’re doing it in other places.

[00:33:28.24] spk_1:
We’re here to. Alright, let’s continue with the

[00:33:32.34] spk_0:
donation page ideas. Okay.

[00:33:32.95] spk_1:
Um, other donation page ideas.

[00:33:34.93] spk_0:
And this is gonna

[00:33:36.45] spk_1:
be my bad recommendation of tests, but I’m gonna throw it out there anyway, because I think it’s probably not going to

[00:33:42.17] spk_0:
work, but I’m

[00:33:43.09] spk_1:
curious to see if it will still work. Um, and that is testing an image versus a video on your donation page. Um, and for the very savvy fundraisers

[00:33:53.24] spk_0:
that are

[00:33:53.53] spk_1:
watching or listening to

[00:33:54.50] spk_0:
this, they were probably

[00:33:55.61] spk_1:
going to discredit me all over the

[00:33:56.97] spk_0:
place and say that Jeremy doesn’t

[00:33:59.20] spk_1:
know what he’s talking about. Um,

[00:34:00.93] spk_0:
but several

[00:34:09.54] spk_1:
years ago when you had a video on your, your donation page and I think maybe it’s because maybe a more a newer medium, you could tell the story of, you know, why we need the gift and be this heartwarming story and you’d actually see the gifts go up. Um, what

[00:34:16.83] spk_0:
I’ve seen over time

[00:34:17.69] spk_1:
now is that

[00:34:18.83] spk_0:
the images

[00:34:19.78] spk_1:
seem to be more effective

[00:34:20.87] spk_0:
than a video. And the reason that we’re

[00:34:23.35] spk_1:
suspecting that happened

[00:34:24.44] spk_0:
just because

[00:34:27.54] spk_1:
when people hit your donation page, You’re now giving them a video to watch, which maybe 30 seconds to minutes. I don’t know however long it is. But you’re now asking them to watch this video and command the attention

[00:34:36.94] spk_0:
and then

[00:34:37.63] spk_1:
fill out a form after that. So you’re kind of asking the donors to do too

[00:34:41.99] spk_0:
many things when they get

[00:34:43.05] spk_1:
your donation page, it is a distraction because they can’t do a donation

[00:34:46.61] spk_0:
page. Most

[00:34:47.78] spk_1:
likely they’re ready to make a

[00:34:48.69] spk_0:
donation. Yes,

[00:34:50.11] spk_1:
exactly. Don’t distract them from that purpose.

[00:34:53.23] spk_0:
Right? Because now there’s another action

[00:34:54.94] spk_1:
you’re giving them watch the

[00:34:56.19] spk_0:
right watch the video,

[00:34:57.63] spk_1:
but you’re saying

[00:35:00.04] spk_0:
test it, Why?

[00:35:00.74] spk_1:
Why? Why do you believe

[00:35:02.16] spk_0:
that so that people don’t think this jeremy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Yeah. Well the reason that I’m kind of

[00:35:07.24] spk_1:
slick throwing this in here is for the

[00:35:08.89] spk_0:
people who have the

[00:35:09.81] spk_1:
video still on their page.

[00:35:11.55] spk_0:
So if that’s

[00:35:12.79] spk_1:
you like test it

[00:35:14.13] spk_0:
with an image on there instead

[00:35:15.59] spk_1:
of the video

[00:35:16.41] spk_0:
and see if

[00:35:17.50] spk_1:
your donations will go

[00:35:18.58] spk_0:
up a little bit. But I’m bringing this in here to recommend it as

[00:35:22.06] spk_1:
a test really to draw

[00:35:23.12] spk_0:
attention to it because there are still some

[00:35:25.36] spk_1:
organizations that

[00:35:26.68] spk_0:
are testing

[00:35:27.64] spk_1:
or not testing, but that have a video on their donation page. And I think if I don’t

[00:35:32.51] spk_0:
address it, then I’m not really bringing attention to that,

[00:35:35.69] spk_1:
that this is an issue. And,

[00:35:37.81] spk_0:
but what,

[00:35:38.78] spk_1:
what I’d also be curious is the people do that do have the nonprofits

[00:35:42.03] spk_0:
that do have a video on their

[00:35:43.10] spk_1:
page. Um,

[00:35:44.64] spk_0:
is that

[00:35:45.18] spk_1:
still working for them and how will, you know if it’s still working if you don’t test that against an image

[00:35:49.48] spk_0:
and if they tested against an

[00:35:50.61] spk_1:
image and the video is still really generating a higher conversion rate

[00:35:55.59] spk_0:
then then I’m

[00:35:56.45] spk_1:
wrong and I’m okay with that. Um I can only go by the data that I see and the research that I’ve done to

[00:36:02.90] spk_0:
say that

[00:36:04.00] spk_1:
was the best practice.

[00:36:05.27] spk_0:
But now not so

[00:36:06.10] spk_1:
much. But if you’re still stuck in that best practice,

[00:36:08.77] spk_0:
it might be time

[00:36:09.71] spk_1:
to test out of that.

[00:36:13.23] spk_0:
If you have neither are you better? Starting

[00:36:14.46] spk_1:
with an image and testing that

[00:36:16.43] spk_0:
and then trying

[00:36:17.96] spk_1:
a video and testing that

[00:36:19.42] spk_0:
in place of the image. Mm hmm.

[00:36:21.39] spk_1:
No. Yeah.

[00:36:22.44] spk_0:
And that that’s

[00:36:23.31] spk_1:
actually an interesting question to if you have neither.

[00:36:25.72] spk_0:
I would test the

[00:36:27.08] spk_1:
neither versus an

[00:36:28.51] spk_0:
image. Well, you’ve got that you have your baseline.

[00:36:31.43] spk_1:
You know what neither

[00:36:32.88] spk_0:
has been doing for

[00:36:33.67] spk_1:
you over however months

[00:36:35.58] spk_0:
years. Okay.

[00:36:36.73] spk_1:
So

[00:36:37.27] spk_0:
now you want to do

[00:36:38.31] spk_1:
an adequate

[00:36:39.29] spk_0:
test with enough

[00:36:40.00] spk_1:
clicks

[00:36:41.17] spk_0:
to testing your advice. It

[00:36:44.04] spk_1:
sounds like your advice would be testing

[00:36:45.16] spk_0:
image first

[00:36:46.62] spk_1:
because typically

[00:36:49.23] spk_0:
images pulled better videos,

[00:36:50.62] spk_1:
correct, correct.

[00:36:51.87] spk_0:
Because I’m not asking

[00:36:52.95] spk_1:
you to look at an image. I’m asking you to watch a video, but the image is just there to,

[00:36:58.16] spk_0:
it should have the same

[00:36:59.36] spk_1:
look and feel and

[00:37:00.12] spk_0:
reinforce the sentiment

[00:37:01.72] spk_1:
of what

[00:37:02.24] spk_0:
that donation pages. So

[00:37:04.04] spk_1:
going back to like a rescue mission like it’s going to be an image of

[00:37:08.11] spk_0:
probably someone

[00:37:09.03] spk_1:
receiving services, whether they’re um receiving housing or food or something like that because it

[00:37:14.13] spk_0:
reinforces

[00:37:15.25] spk_1:
what you’re giving to help out

[00:37:17.47] spk_0:
or giving to

[00:37:19.43] spk_1:
eradicate. Mhm.

[00:37:20.63] spk_0:
You

[00:37:20.75] spk_1:
got one more for the donation page. Um Let’s see. I know I was looking at

[00:37:28.62] spk_0:
this is I mean it’s in the same vein

[00:37:30.89] spk_1:
because a lot of these are like really nit picky. But even like testing the hero image

[00:37:34.74] spk_0:
for example,

[00:37:35.73] spk_1:
because we talked about testing

[00:37:36.85] spk_0:
an image versus the

[00:37:37.69] spk_1:
video. If you’re already doing an image, I wouldn’t

[00:37:40.51] spk_0:
test that against video. If you’re

[00:37:42.06] spk_1:
doing a video, I’d test that against the image. But if you have an image, I would test that

[00:37:46.46] spk_0:
against another

[00:37:47.78] spk_1:
image. Um using this rescue mission scenario. If you

[00:37:52.00] spk_0:
test a feeding

[00:38:04.12] spk_1:
offer. So maybe it’s a a man that is homeless and he’s receiving food. Maybe the next image that you test is maybe uh this gentleman um in the

[00:38:04.42] spk_0:
housing he’s sitting on his bed

[00:38:06.00] spk_1:
and so you actually see that what you’re giving is

[00:38:09.17] spk_0:
subconsciously tied

[00:38:10.13] spk_1:
to providing the shelter

[00:38:11.26] spk_0:
versus providing the

[00:38:12.30] spk_1:
food like someone in a cafeteria

[00:38:14.80] spk_0:
that’s eating a meal.

[00:38:24.02] spk_1:
Um So testing different images. If you’re testing like um cancer research or something like that, maybe it’s your showing a cancer patient, which I believe would be more effective than showing the actual research facility. Um But I’m sure that there’s cancer research nonprofits that are showing the

[00:38:32.55] spk_0:
facility on the donation

[00:38:33.81] spk_1:
page and not the

[00:38:34.97] spk_0:
end recipient

[00:38:36.16] spk_1:
who’s the beneficiary

[00:38:37.59] spk_0:
of that research.

[00:38:38.97] spk_1:
Um, so

[00:38:40.11] spk_0:
bringing attention to that

[00:38:41.52] spk_1:
is like, let’s test these images

[00:38:43.20] spk_0:
and see which

[00:38:44.50] spk_1:
one would increase the conversion rates for our

[00:38:47.22] spk_0:
heart donation

[00:38:48.92] spk_1:
page. Okay.

[00:38:50.02] spk_0:
I mean, I

[00:38:50.28] spk_1:
want to flush out something that you

[00:38:51.36] spk_0:
just said sort of in passing. I want to make sure we’re giving people the right advice. You

[00:38:56.45] spk_1:
said, If you have an

[00:38:57.29] spk_0:
image, don’t

[00:38:58.76] spk_1:
test that against the

[00:38:59.53] spk_0:
video, but if you have a video test that

[00:39:04.42] spk_1:
against an image, I would,

[00:39:05.09] spk_0:
that’s what I would say. Yes.

[00:39:07.09] spk_1:
I

[00:39:09.52] spk_0:
say that. Um,

[00:39:10.61] spk_1:
I think also

[00:39:11.46] spk_0:
non province. If they

[00:39:12.57] spk_1:
got the idea to say, oh, we’ve never tested a video. Like

[00:39:16.01] spk_0:
I know he doesn’t recommend it, but let’s

[00:39:17.93] spk_1:
just see if it works then have at it. I wouldn’t recommend it. Um,

[00:39:23.42] spk_0:
so yeah, you

[00:39:24.27] spk_1:
are correct. If you

[00:39:25.28] spk_0:
have an image

[00:39:26.30] spk_1:
tested against the

[00:39:26.96] spk_0:
video, uh, sorry.

[00:39:28.48] spk_1:
If you have a video tested against an image

[00:39:30.64] spk_0:
image. Yeah.

[00:39:31.69] spk_1:
Let’s test it against another image.

[00:39:44.92] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Let’s move on to email. That’s, that seems ubiquitous. Everybody uses email most likely. Right. Right. Reading my notes. You’re reading

[00:39:51.94] spk_1:
my

[00:39:52.05] spk_0:
notes. Everything you said

[00:40:02.28] spk_1:
is great. And there’s

[00:40:03.56] spk_0:
basics of these,

[00:40:04.52] spk_1:
you know, time of day, day of week. Um,

[00:40:06.64] spk_0:
taking a step back though. Taking a step

[00:40:09.08] spk_1:
back. Um,

[00:40:10.13] spk_0:
when you test email, it’s more important

[00:40:13.35] spk_1:
in my opinion,

[00:40:14.16] spk_0:
like to test, like

[00:40:15.23] spk_1:
what they call, like

[00:40:16.12] spk_0:
the envelope, what’s on

[00:40:17.19] spk_1:
the outside before you actually

[00:40:18.52] spk_0:
test anything within the email. Um, so people have to open it before they can see your email. So to me, the most

[00:40:26.07] spk_1:
important thing is like, what can

[00:40:30.11] spk_0:
we test before people click into that email to get them to open the email? And those would be things like time

[00:40:34.17] spk_1:
of day and day of week. You know, that, that’s,

[00:40:36.20] spk_0:
that’s a twofer

[00:40:37.10] spk_1:
right there. There’s a time of day,

[00:40:54.71] spk_0:
there’s a day of week. So testing different times of day with the exact same emails, same subject line, same pre header, same everything. We’re just testing the time of day. Is that the text you see like some people call it teaser text, text you see in your, in your inbox before you’ve opened the message, correct? Yes.

[00:41:00.36] spk_1:
So you have like your

[00:41:01.55] spk_0:
subject line

[00:41:02.68] spk_1:
and then below that, like if you’re looking on your

[00:41:04.56] spk_0:
phone or even on your desktop Yeah, you’ll see a little bit of text under it

[00:41:07.70] spk_1:
and and that’s called your pre

[00:41:12.01] spk_0:
header. Yes. Um, so you know, I

[00:41:12.53] spk_1:
would look at testing that the

[00:41:13.72] spk_0:
basics time of day to day a week.

[00:41:15.71] spk_1:
You mentioned

[00:41:16.67] spk_0:
one like the sender

[00:41:17.75] spk_1:
name.

[00:41:18.81] spk_0:
So if you’re sending it and it’s like your organization’s name is the center,

[00:41:23.19] spk_1:
which is probably how

[00:41:24.31] spk_0:
most nonprofits send it and there’s nothing

[00:41:26.25] spk_1:
wrong with that. Um,

[00:41:27.51] spk_0:
what if we tested it using a person’s name. Like maybe it’s

[00:41:30.74] spk_1:
the executive

[00:41:31.91] spk_0:
director or ceo of a

[00:41:33.48] spk_1:
nonprofit. Um,

[00:41:34.98] spk_0:
the only thing that I would kind of

[00:41:36.03] spk_1:
caution with that

[00:41:37.31] spk_0:
is

[00:41:38.02] spk_1:
if you tested that

[00:41:40.31] spk_0:
one time, you’ll likely

[00:41:41.25] spk_1:
see a bump because people

[00:41:42.50] spk_0:
aren’t used to seeing it

[00:41:43.52] spk_1:
from that person. And

[00:41:44.63] spk_0:
if they don’t know that person’s

[00:41:45.90] spk_1:
name or even if they do, they’re like, oh, who is this? And

[00:41:48.00] spk_0:
they’ll click on it just because they’re not sure who it’s from.

[00:41:50.57] spk_1:
So I think if

[00:41:51.81] spk_0:
you only tested once you’re probably going to say, oh, it came that we changed the sender name so we’re gonna

[00:41:57.89] spk_1:
always go with the sender

[00:41:59.51] spk_0:
name and that, that may prove

[00:42:00.40] spk_1:
effective for the short

[00:42:01.40] spk_0:
term. You can probably send a

[00:42:02.41] spk_1:
few of them that way and

[00:42:04.13] spk_0:
it’ll be effective, but kind of baselining it over time.

[00:42:07.16] spk_1:
Like I, I don’t know which one will be

[00:42:08.63] spk_0:
more effective for you. I mean,

[00:42:10.18] spk_1:
and I honestly don’t have seen mixed

[00:42:11.95] spk_0:
results on that. Um,

[00:42:13.35] spk_1:
so that is something

[00:42:14.22] spk_0:
that you run multiple tests on over time.

[00:42:16.94] spk_1:
Not just like a one time we’ve made our

[00:42:27.20] spk_0:
decision Ceo or executive director after the person’s name. Yeah. I’m like putting their, not just their name but their title on right. Comma Ceo or comma executive director. That might, you know, that that seems worth testing to me. Yeah, might open, it might get a higher open rate was writing. Okay. Yeah, exactly.

[00:42:42.68] spk_1:
And that would,

[00:42:44.80] spk_0:
um, like that’s almost like a second

[00:42:46.21] spk_1:
level senator name

[00:42:47.26] spk_0:
because just starting out sender

[00:42:48.46] spk_1:
name. Um,

[00:42:49.61] spk_0:
I mean if you’re even the nonprofit’s

[00:42:51.90] spk_1:
name, if you have

[00:42:52.58] spk_0:
the in front of your nonprofit,

[00:42:54.01] spk_1:
like the

[00:42:54.43] spk_0:
Salvation Army, you

[00:42:55.98] spk_1:
know, you can’t test it against the

[00:42:57.04] spk_0:
Salvation Army, you know,

[00:42:58.64] spk_1:
but that would be a further

[00:42:59.95] spk_0:
test. That’s deeper into the center

[00:43:01.27] spk_1:
name. But yeah, the actual

[00:43:02.79] spk_0:
name of the executive director could

[00:43:04.51] spk_1:
be one test versus the

[00:43:06.32] spk_0:
person’s name. Comma

[00:43:08.05] spk_1:
Ceo or

[00:43:08.66] spk_0:
executive director. That

[00:43:11.10] spk_1:
that could be interesting as well. Trying to participate in the

[00:43:12.73] spk_0:
activity here in the conversation.

[00:43:14.33] spk_1:
Trying to hold

[00:43:15.99] spk_0:
up, hold, trying to hold up my side of the conversation. Oh yeah,

[00:43:18.71] spk_1:
no, you’re doing a great job. Yeah.

[00:43:23.25] spk_0:
Yeah.

[00:43:25.70] spk_1:
one thing that I think is, um, a good feature of the test is like if you

[00:43:27.67] spk_0:
are, if your

[00:43:28.49] spk_1:
email includes a

[00:43:30.50] spk_0:
video in it

[00:43:31.60] spk_1:
or a blog

[00:43:32.47] spk_0:
post. I mean you

[00:43:33.47] spk_1:
can’t have a video in

[00:43:34.48] spk_0:
an email, but it’s about maybe a video on your website. Um, and there’s a thumbnail

[00:43:38.58] spk_1:
of the video on your email or a blog post.

[00:43:41.05] spk_0:
Then I would

[00:43:41.68] spk_1:
include, um, like the word video, like in all caps and then like a sub colon or not slowed colon,

[00:43:48.12] spk_0:
like semi colon. And then whatever

[00:43:51.10] spk_1:
the video is, colon.

[00:43:51.57] spk_0:
Yeah. I’m all over the place

[00:43:53.10] spk_1:
with my

[00:43:53.50] spk_0:
grandma, right? That’s what you want to call it. You

[00:43:56.09] spk_1:
know what I’m saying? Yeah.

[00:43:57.38] spk_0:
You’re smarter than me. So you

[00:43:58.58] spk_1:
don’t, you understand that? Yeah. It

[00:44:00.52] spk_0:
took me two tries for video

[00:44:04.22] spk_1:
in all caps, I

[00:44:04.92] spk_0:
see that a lot. Yeah, yeah

[00:44:08.27] spk_1:
or blog

[00:44:09.05] spk_0:
because if you don’t have

[00:44:10.27] spk_1:
video and you just have like a subject line that’s maybe about the video or watch this or something like that. Like

[00:44:16.17] spk_0:
that’s one thing and it may

[00:44:17.36] spk_1:
work for you.

[00:44:18.39] spk_0:
But I think when you have

[00:44:19.33] spk_1:
like whatever that piece of

[00:44:20.44] spk_0:
content is and

[00:44:21.52] spk_1:
call it out and call attention to it now, it’s like, oh, there’s a video in here. Um and I see that first and foremost, I’m not reading like a title, I’m not reading a subject line

[00:44:30.50] spk_0:
per se.

[00:44:31.39] spk_1:
Um I know that when I open this, I’m going to see a video. I know when

[00:44:35.03] spk_0:
I open this, it’s going

[00:44:39.49] spk_1:
to be their blog post and and with this nonprofit like I like their blogs, you know, or I’m interested to see

[00:44:41.92] spk_0:
what they’re talking

[00:44:42.77] spk_1:
about and and so I

[00:44:43.96] spk_0:
know it sets my

[00:44:45.11] spk_1:
expectation

[00:44:46.16] spk_0:
as an email

[00:44:46.91] spk_1:
subscriber of what that

[00:44:48.12] spk_0:
content is.

[00:44:49.10] spk_1:
Um So I go in

[00:44:50.17] spk_0:
there and I’ll open it

[00:44:51.91] spk_1:
up. So I think that’s one thing too that

[00:44:54.39] spk_0:
um could help to sit

[00:44:56.04] spk_1:
down and see if it works for you. Give

[00:44:57.53] spk_0:
Us one more email.

[00:44:59.09] spk_1:
one more would be that pre header that we we we defined

[00:45:02.59] spk_0:
a couple of minutes

[00:45:03.53] spk_1:
ago is testing the language with the pre

[00:45:05.90] spk_0:
header and with this

[00:45:07.10] spk_1:
uh the day and time would be the same. The subject line would be the same, but the pre

[00:45:11.72] spk_0:
header would be

[00:45:14.89] spk_1:
something different and it could be

[00:45:15.49] spk_0:
a call to action.

[00:45:16.54] spk_1:
Um I do recommend that whatever you have in your pre header um and I don’t know the exact

[00:45:21.38] spk_0:
character count

[00:45:22.33] spk_1:
off the top of my head but just make sure that

[00:45:24.60] spk_0:
people can read the

[00:45:25.55] spk_1:
whole pre header um

[00:45:26.93] spk_0:
from whatever

[00:45:28.63] spk_1:
device they’re looking at it on. Um Some, some people may say well

[00:45:34.19] spk_0:
if you don’t include

[00:45:35.09] spk_1:
all of it then it adds

[00:45:35.93] spk_0:
this Mystique and people

[00:45:37.13] spk_1:
will want to open it up to see what it says and

[00:45:39.70] spk_0:
I think there’s some

[00:45:40.72] spk_1:
value to that. Um And I think maybe you can test that as well, but I think in general um that pre editor people should be able to read all of that.

[00:45:48.25] spk_0:
But testing what

[00:45:49.22] spk_1:
that is, whether it’s a call to action or um

[00:45:52.09] spk_0:
if it’s a

[00:45:53.49] spk_1:
video for example, maybe you have the person’s name that’s

[00:45:56.96] spk_0:
in the video. You

[00:45:57.96] spk_1:
know, bob’s testimony about blah blah blah versus

[00:46:01.21] spk_0:
here’s an easter

[00:46:02.30] spk_1:
message from blah blah

[00:46:04.02] spk_0:
blah.

[00:46:08.18] spk_1:
Okay, how about the,

[00:46:10.58] spk_0:
well it’s either search engine marketing or facebook

[00:46:12.94] spk_1:
ads.

[00:46:14.38] spk_0:
I’m pretty down on facebook,

[00:46:15.73] spk_1:
but I guess people are still doing

[00:46:16.86] spk_0:
a lot of facebook ads so we’ll ignore the

[00:46:20.63] spk_1:
the the hosts. Uh

[00:46:22.49] spk_0:
Predilection against

[00:46:24.21] spk_1:
facebook and

[00:46:27.78] spk_0:
let’s talk about facebook ads. Yeah

[00:46:28.17] spk_1:
facebook ads let me pull up

[00:46:30.57] spk_0:
my list here

[00:46:31.51] spk_1:
because I had a lot to say about that

[00:46:33.91] spk_0:
and actually like

[00:46:34.64] spk_1:
facebook ads is like one of those things where there’s

[00:46:38.88] spk_0:
I mean I

[00:46:39.37] spk_1:
could probably do 50 tests with

[00:46:41.00] spk_0:
facebook ads. There’s so many different

[00:46:42.31] spk_1:
things that you can test. Um,

[00:46:44.18] spk_0:
but for the sake

[00:46:45.53] spk_1:
of like maybe time and and quality

[00:46:47.60] spk_0:
of continent, what we

[00:46:48.73] spk_1:
talked about here. One thing that I do want to

[00:46:51.06] spk_0:
put out their first and

[00:46:52.11] spk_1:
foremost is

[00:46:53.25] spk_0:
testing

[00:46:54.58] spk_1:
um, link short ners within the ad copy. Um, so let’s take a step back and talk about kind of the anatomy of a facebook ad. Um and what I’m gonna talk about is more like the news

[00:47:05.77] spk_0:
feed ads. So if

[00:47:06.99] spk_1:
you’re on a desktop or on your

[00:47:09.07] spk_0:
smartphone and

[00:47:10.58] spk_1:
you’re just scrolling

[00:47:11.17] spk_0:
and you’re seeing what your friends

[00:47:12.24] spk_1:
post and then there will be an ad, they’re just kind of in your newsfeed. So newsfeed

[00:47:15.98] spk_0:
add the

[00:47:16.78] spk_1:
anatomy of it is you have like um text, which will be like your description and then you have the image below that and then you have a headline below that with a button that you can make me a

[00:47:26.77] spk_0:
donate button.

[00:47:30.88] spk_1:
Um, so one of the things that I would have nonprofits

[00:47:31.94] spk_0:
tests first and

[00:47:32.71] spk_1:
foremost is with the net description, which is that first

[00:47:35.56] spk_0:
block of content

[00:47:36.66] spk_1:
above the image where you’re writing that includes your ad copy

[00:47:41.08] spk_0:
is

[00:47:41.48] spk_1:
that you include a call to action with a

[00:47:44.26] spk_0:
link shorter at the

[00:47:45.43] spk_1:
end of your copy. Um for example, um,

[00:47:49.61] spk_0:
March is such

[00:47:50.84] spk_1:
and such awareness month here at

[00:47:52.44] spk_0:
X. Nonprofit.

[00:47:53.53] spk_1:
You know, we really believe X.

[00:47:54.75] spk_0:
Y. And Z. You

[00:47:55.88] spk_1:
can make a difference today. Um uh

[00:47:58.88] spk_0:
by donating

[00:48:02.37] spk_1:
$50. I don’t know, it’s very general um text or what

[00:48:03.57] spk_0:
I’m saying. Uh

[00:48:04.62] spk_1:
and then under that you have like make your gift here and then you have like a link shortening which

[00:48:09.67] spk_0:
would be like Bentley, B. I.

[00:48:10.90] spk_1:
T. Dot L. Y. You know, you can take a U. R. L. From your donation page, go to Bentley and it

[00:48:17.14] spk_0:
will compress it

[00:48:18.61] spk_1:
into less characters for your U. R.

[00:48:21.21] spk_0:
L. But

[00:48:22.48] spk_1:
include that within your um the description copy of your facebook ad. Um and the reason that I recommend that is

[00:48:29.75] spk_0:
Number one I’ve seen at work,

[00:48:31.10] spk_1:
you get a higher conversion rate but just thinking about the flow of a facebook ad. Like you’re reading the

[00:48:36.50] spk_0:
copy and

[00:48:43.57] spk_1:
let’s talk about the flow. If you don’t include this piece, you’re reading the copy and then you see the image or video and then you see a call to action

[00:48:46.10] spk_0:
and then over to the right

[00:48:47.14] spk_1:
of that call to action is a

[00:48:48.09] spk_0:
button. So

[00:48:49.27] spk_1:
what we’re doing with this

[00:48:50.07] spk_0:
essentially is bringing

[00:48:51.13] spk_1:
that call to action

[00:48:52.77] spk_0:
up

[00:48:53.11] spk_1:
quicker. Um, and eliminating

[00:48:55.39] spk_0:
some distractions to

[00:48:56.35] spk_1:
a degree. So I’m reading

[00:48:57.52] spk_0:
this wonderful

[00:48:58.51] spk_1:
ad copy that was written by this nonprofit

[00:49:00.75] spk_0:
and then they’re telling me

[00:49:01.75] spk_1:
what that next step is right here and there

[00:49:03.94] spk_0:
as opposed to

[00:49:04.77] spk_1:
like okay I have to watch this video or taking this

[00:49:07.40] spk_0:
image and I have to read this headline

[00:49:09.28] spk_1:
and then I have to click on this button

[00:49:11.67] spk_0:
so you’re you’re

[00:49:11.93] spk_1:
making that decision making process happen quicker. Um because

[00:49:16.12] spk_0:
by the time I read your

[00:49:16.91] spk_1:
copy I made tune out your image and the call to action in the button and I’m scrolling to the

[00:49:20.97] spk_0:
next piece of content

[00:49:22.51] spk_1:
so it just

[00:49:23.15] spk_0:
inserts that call to

[00:49:24.07] spk_1:
action a little bit earlier.

[00:49:25.28] spk_0:
So I would say

[00:49:30.47] spk_1:
test that out, see if that works. How about um what else? Facebook.

[00:49:32.00] spk_0:
Okay yep. So what else um

[00:49:33.84] spk_1:
I would test image overlays. So what I mean by that is like a

[00:49:38.77] spk_0:
text overlay.

[00:49:39.68] spk_1:
Um It used to be where with facebook you can only have a certain

[00:49:42.72] spk_0:
percent of

[00:49:43.74] spk_1:
your image and a image

[00:49:45.97] spk_0:
at be covered

[00:49:46.65] spk_1:
with text, but now you can put text all

[00:49:48.98] spk_0:
over it if you want to.

[00:49:50.24] spk_1:
So what I would recommend is like

[00:49:52.03] spk_0:
testing the image by

[00:49:53.48] spk_1:
itself. So let’s

[00:49:54.59] spk_0:
say it’s uh animal

[00:49:56.40] spk_1:
shelter and it’s just this picture

[00:49:58.22] spk_0:
of any animal, it could

[00:50:00.10] spk_1:
be a happy animal sat

[00:50:01.31] spk_0:
animal or whatever,

[00:50:02.48] spk_1:
but then you have a b version of the add

[00:50:04.84] spk_0:
and everything else is the same except the

[00:50:06.63] spk_1:
image. But

[00:50:10.86] spk_0:
over the image you actually have some text overlay that’s saying you know

[00:50:11.46] spk_1:
$50

[00:50:12.58] spk_0:
Or $10 a month

[00:50:13.93] spk_1:
can help save X.

[00:50:15.31] spk_0:
Animals X. Amount of animals. Um But

[00:50:18.54] spk_1:
seeing if that makes a difference.

[00:50:19.81] spk_0:
And honestly I’ve seen where in some cases it has, in some cases it has, you know, so that this is certainly one of those

[00:50:26.79] spk_1:
things where I’m like, I’ve

[00:50:27.82] spk_0:
usually see this happen, but I’ve seen mixed results with this. So I think non probably have to see what works for them.

[00:50:33.86] spk_1:
Okay,

[00:50:42.16] spk_0:
leave us with one more facebook made. You make your top one of what’s left. Yeah. What’s left is testing your audiences. So

[00:50:46.11] spk_1:
not even what the people

[00:50:47.35] spk_0:
see, but behind the scenes and facebook, whenever you’re

[00:50:50.21] spk_1:
building the ads,

[00:51:09.16] spk_0:
your audiences are so important. And I would test against your audiences and even within that I would break them into a few different audiences and won, I would take my email file of my donors and I would upload them into facebook and target them with ads separately from everybody else. Um, and then I would also target by

[00:51:11.58] spk_1:
age, I would have everything

[00:51:16.96] spk_0:
be the same except I would target different age groups because some

[00:51:17.28] spk_1:
nonprofits say,

[00:51:18.37] spk_0:
hey, we want to

[00:51:19.29] spk_1:
target ages 18

[00:51:20.53] spk_0:
and up because everybody, if they have money we want them to give. But that’s not always being

[00:51:25.01] spk_1:
a good steward of your ad

[00:51:36.56] spk_0:
budgets. So tests like 50 year old plus and then test maybe 35 to 49 see which one of those ad groups has a higher conversion rate because a lot of times when I talk to non profits, they

[00:51:38.51] spk_1:
have no idea

[00:51:39.71] spk_0:
what the age group is of people that donate to them on facebook. So I’m like we can find this out if we test

[00:51:45.35] spk_1:
enough, we’ll know that this

[00:51:46.51] spk_0:
is the age group that has a higher propensity to donate. Um So those are ways that you

[00:51:50.33] spk_1:
can test the audiences on the back

[00:52:00.45] spk_0:
end of it, you mentioned earlier that you have 100 ways to test. Is that something you said? I think you said it was on your website. Um it is, it’s you have to be a member of fundraisers unite

[00:52:04.38] spk_1:
to have

[00:52:05.07] spk_0:
access to that. Yeah, but it is

[00:52:07.37] spk_1:
available but

[00:52:07.99] spk_0:
yeah, just throw it dot com after that. So fundraisers unite dot com. Um and this is an online community uh subscription program for digital fundraisers. So there’s a lot of templates and trainings

[00:52:20.57] spk_1:
and tip sheets and

[00:52:21.77] spk_0:
resources that they

[00:52:22.87] spk_1:
offer to my

[00:52:24.75] spk_0:
audience. Thank you very much, jeremy hazelwood

[00:52:59.75] spk_1:
digital fundraiser. Next week we’ll take a break from 22. NTC with Don Gatewood on mentoring. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored

[00:53:00.33] spk_0:
by turn to

[00:53:00.90] spk_1:
communications pr and content for

[00:53:03.30] spk_0:
nonprofits. Your story

[00:53:58.25] spk_1:
is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. And by 4th dimension Technologies IT Infra in a box. The affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. Our creative producer is claire Meyerhoff. The shows social media is by Susan Chavez marc Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by scott Steiner. Yes, thank you for that. Affirmation, scotty Be with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great. Mm hmm.

Nonprofit Radio for May 9, 2022: Using COPE To Keep Your Website Fresh

 

Katelyn Gerber & Rachel Kribbs: Using COPE To Keep Your Website Fresh
Create Once, Publish Everywhere. User friendly COPE workflows and principles will efficiently keep your website content up-to-date. Explaining how are Katelyn Gerber and Rachel Kribbs, both from FORM. (This is part of our coverage of the 2022 Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN.)

 

 

 

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Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:01:58.54] spk_0:
mm hmm. Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with a Nicaea if you nailed me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Using Cope to keep your website fresh, create once published everywhere. User friendly cope workflows and principles will efficiently keep your website content up to date explaining how are Caitlin Gerber and Rachel cribs both from form. This is part of our coverage of the 2022 nonprofit technology conference hosted by N 10 On Tony’s take two please share. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. And by 4th dimension technologies I thi infra in a box The affordable tech solution for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper here is using Cope to keep your website fresh. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 22 NTC. You know what that is The 2022 Nonprofit Technology Conference. Our coverage continues with Caitlin Gerber and Rachel Cribs Caitlin is director of operations at form and Rachel cribs is account executive at form Caitlin Rachel Welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:02:06.04] spk_1:
thank you. Thanks for having us. It’s

[00:02:10.84] spk_0:
a pleasure to have both of you. Your

[00:02:11.86] spk_1:
session

[00:02:21.54] spk_0:
topic is using Cope principles to keep your website fresh. Well we’ll get into what Cope is all about um Who wants to explain what Form is all

[00:02:58.14] spk_1:
about Caitlin? I can take that one Caitlin Caitlin has been here longer than I have, but I have the the the elevator speech down. So form is a we are a digital first creative group. Um and we only work with a non profit organization, so we are based in Cleveland Ohio, but we work with nonprofits in every corner of the sector um all over the country. And we, our mission is to help nonprofits connect with their patrons um and do more work and do it better and reach more people. We do that through website creation, we do print digital marketing campaigns, um Digital interactive. So anything digital first, we provide those services for non profit works. Um And I come from about 11 years of nonprofit admin before joining the team. So that’s kind of the perspective that I bring to the group.

[00:03:31.14] spk_0:
Alright, very concise. Thank you. You do have to have it down. Your right. Absolutely. All right. Um then Kaitlin, let’s go to you what what Cope Principles give us an overview of of Cope and and how this is valuable for nonprofits.

[00:04:03.34] spk_2:
Yeah, so it’s one of those acronyms that we can add to the acronym jar. So it stands for create once publish everywhere. And the whole idea is really to work smarter, not harder. Um So when you’re creating website content, you want to create it only one time, but show it in multiple different places. Um So it cuts down on kind of retyping the same things or having to keep different pages updated and keep track of all of that and really tries to simplify your workload um when it comes to creating your content on the web um and making it as easy for you to keep track of and keep updated on an ongoing basis,

[00:04:16.34] spk_0:
is it something different than just simple repurposing?

[00:04:33.84] spk_2:
So it really comes down to how your website is set up. So it’s kind of a whole ideology of how you enter content into your content management system for your website. Um So it is kind of a records based approach. Um So rather than creating individual pages and copy and pasting that content, um you really are only entering at one time um into a form and then your website is displaying that content in multiple different places, even though it only exists one place in your content management system.

[00:04:54.60] spk_0:
So

[00:04:56.34] spk_1:
yeah, the the

[00:04:57.67] spk_0:
more sophisticated than my simple minded repurpose,

[00:05:01.21] spk_1:
the end, the end result is that content is repurposed repurposed and there are all kinds of benefits to doing that. But the way to get it repurposed is a lot easier and more effective and efficient on the back end.

[00:05:14.54] spk_0:
Okay, so let’s stick with you Rachel, what did you talk in your summary of the session about Coppola workflows, what is this, what does this start to look like.

[00:06:51.04] spk_1:
So basically you’re ideally the content management system. So the, the thing that the nonprofit organization would see on the back end in order to publish information on the front end of their website. So your content management system, you know, examples of this are WordPress, it’s probably the most popular one. Um, Drew Apple Squarespace and Wix. These are all content management systems. So in the C. M. S, uh, there are a series of forms ideally so that you are entering information about certain types of content that may change frequently. Um We call this dynamic content like event listings, blog posts, news articles, these types of things that are going to change frequently. You would enter into a form fields, uh, you know, date, start time and time. When do I turn this off? What’s the body, what images do you want? Um, into this form based system in your CMS. And then you select where it’s displayed on the, on the front end to your users. So that’s why we call it a workflow. It’s really um about the cope refers to the system that the content creator is using to get this information out. Um sounds really dry and boring, but the end result means, I mean literally an exponential amount of time saved for nonprofit admins and having been a nonprofit admin. I understand, you know, time is of the essence and and also it avoids um, broken links, errors, typos because, you know, you’re entering all this really detailed information multiple times. Um but that’s why we call it a workflow because that’s really what it’s all about.

[00:07:17.74] spk_0:
And how does someone create this? How does someone create the document that is linked? That is part of your, your content management system that is then going to distribute this, how does this all get made? So for people who aren’t working for form or working with form, how do they implement

[00:08:03.24] spk_2:
this? So the first step is to really identify types of content on your site that work well with this type of workflow and what we mean by that are things that um typically have a similar format on your site. So Rachel mentioned things like events. Um so date based things are really great um because that allows uh, your system to automatically hide those things for you um when the date passes. Um, so date based type things are really good things like fundraising events, um, community events, if you’re an arts organization, um, things like exhibitions or performances, um, those are great types of content to consider using this form.

[00:08:07.34] spk_1:
Um

[00:08:28.54] spk_2:
also things like blogs, news, um kind of the usual suspects there in terms of content that’s created in a kind of standardized way, um and things like your program services, location, staff, um, things that you can easily imagine, you know, I can enter all this information into a form because it all kind of follows the same format. Um so the first step is really identifying what types of these things do you have on your website? Um Almost every nonprofit has events, um Almost everyone has staph or programs, things like that. And so really uh

[00:08:44.42] spk_1:
taking

[00:10:04.04] spk_2:
stock of what types of content you have on your site. Um and then really mapping kind of how those relate to each other. So on your program page you might want to also display news about that program. You might want to also display who you should get in touch with if you have questions about that program um or events that relate to that program and really kind of creating this map of kind of how your content can and should relate to each other. Um and then really assessing, you know, are you already entering this content in this way or are you entering it one page at a time copying and pasting it over um and kind of taking stock of that. And then really it comes down to kind of how savvy you as an individual are um with content management systems. Uh it might be a thing where you feel really comfortable in WordPress and installing plug ins and you can get these things set up yourself, um more often you’re probably going to be working with whoever you use um to work on your website, um and saying, hey, these are the types of things that we would like to modify to be cope friendly. Um and web developers will know what that means. Um they will understand that, that terminology, um they will understand what you mean by hey we want to make this a plug in um and kind of working with them to update that. Um The best time to consider this really is if you’re doing a website redesign you can certainly update your existing website, but it’s definitely easiest if you’re thinking about embarking on building a new website in the next year or two years, if that’s in the plan, um start taking stock of these types of content and mapping them to each other. So that way when you are

[00:10:30.51] spk_1:
selecting

[00:10:43.54] spk_2:
a vendor or working with your existing vendor from scratch, um you have your arms with its information and arms with these requests. Um so that way it can be built right kind of from the, from the start. Um and really just make sure that you’re maintaining that. So if you as an organization do decide to add a blog, for example, um make sure that when that’s added to your site added in a friendly way. Um so that way you’re kind of future proofing your content. Um but really the first step is to take stock, where are you, where are you at now? Um and then you can decide how you want to proceed

[00:11:09.14] spk_1:
from there.

[00:12:22.34] spk_0:
It’s time for a break, turn to communications, the content creation and the content management, you see now how they work together. Turn to can help you make the content right? The content, deliver it and deliver it to the audiences that you’re trying to reach, then you also need to manage it right? You want to keep it public on your own sites, so you’re getting it out through media channels, that’s the ideal. And that’s what turn to does. But then you got your own sites to that’s the earned versus the owned media. So where you own the site, whether it’s a blog or uh, maybe it’s a podcast or, you know, just your website, it’s all got to be managed. So it’s findable. The content creation, content management turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o. Now, back to using cope to keep your website fresh, Rachel anything you want to add to the to that.

[00:12:47.14] spk_1:
Yeah, I think just the the short, the The point is, uh you mostly have to work within your content management system, involve your web developer. WordPress, scruple those are really popular content management systems. Um there’s another one called final site that a lot of K-12 schools use these are all they all support cope. Um I know on WordPress and ripple, you could do some googling online to figure out exactly how to do that. But it does get technical and as Caitlyn mentioned relying on third party plug ins. But if you’re not the developers, you mentioned doing that kind of content mapping. Thinking about how your website, visitors might want to see information or what’s going to be most informative to them is an important step you can take even if you don’t have that technical skill.

[00:13:17.04] spk_0:
Okay. I mean it’s imagine it’s hard for me to imagine a nonprofit not working with form, but I like to have listeners understand, you know, how they can, how they can proceed on their own. Alright, so

[00:13:23.67] spk_1:
any

[00:13:36.44] spk_0:
web developer, anybody works in WordPress or drew people is gonna know or you mentioned square to, you know, is gonna know what cope Cope is and Cope friendly principles are okay, Okay. Yeah, this

[00:14:00.94] spk_2:
is in a brand new concept. I think that the term was first coined about a decade ago. Um, and it’s just gained popularity because as Rachel mentioned, non profit admins are busy people, they have a million things that they have to do. Um, and entering the same content for their website six times is not among the priority list. Um, so this, this is really kind of taken taken off and become a very familiar term in the industry

[00:14:43.44] spk_0:
and I was concerned when, when I selected this because on nonprofit radio have jargon jail, but you both have been very good about explaining terms, you know, con CMS, not just throwing out CMS content management system Rachel, you were very clear about that. So, but, but I’m uh, I’m very sensitive, you know, I’m, I’m, my, my antennae are up but you’ve been very good so far. So no jargon jail transgressions. You’re, you’re succeeding. Lots of people trying, you’re, you’re succeeding. Um, you talked a little too about building consensus and and buy in around new new workflows that I get that I guess are gonna be cope, uh, helpful friendly. What does that, what does that look like trying to get like leadership by in what are we talking about there? Who don’t know who wants to take this?

[00:16:15.54] spk_1:
I can take this one Caitlin if that’s all right. Um, since I talked about this in the, in the, the webinar to really cope benefits. I mean, it sounds so dry and boring, right? Like if you go to leadership at the nonprofit and it’s not about like here. So I’m gonna bring in the next million dollar gift, It’s like, okay, please don’t bother me. But really, this not only benefits your organization and saves time. So there’s a clear, um, kind of business outcome. You can save a lot of resources and your folks can focus on more of that fundraising or helping their constituents by using this system. Um, but it has a huge benefits for the website, users to, So, okay, maybe this isn’t a direct, um, fundraising tactic, but if the end result is a more enjoyable user experience on your website, that really, really goes a long way. And I think nonprofits, um, like I said, having worked for several and just what I’ve observed, tend to think that if people are coming to my website, they care enough about my organization to find what they need. No matter how much digging it takes. And really that’s becoming less and less the case. If someone’s frustrated, confused, they can’t find something easily, You’re going to lose them, you may lose their support, they may lose interest in you. So we have to make sure that our website visitors are having a really positive experience. So in order to get buy in from the organization, those are sort of the two angles I take. This is good for us. This is good for our constituents. But

[00:16:21.67] spk_0:
before you start to get to buy it, why is it better for website visitors? What, what, what difference does it make for them?

[00:17:23.04] spk_1:
Yeah. So a couple of things, um, it makes your website more engaging. So let’s say you’re browsing a nonprofit that you’re, you’re not familiar with. And you see an interesting article, let’s say. Um, the first thing is maybe it links at the bottom two other articles from that bank of articles you have that are related to this topic. So they might see that and then go down this rabbit hole and it’s kind of how you get on like a Wikipedia rabbit hole, you start clicking on the links inside and going down these other things. So that’s kind of, the idea is you can have related information to the page that they’re on and it’s going to create a more engaging website experience. Um, we like to say it avoids dead ends where a website is, there’s clicking through, they get to a page and then there’s really no obvious place for them to go next. We don’t want that to happen. Um, it also makes it more informative. So as the example, Caitlyn mentioned, um, if someone is seeking out service of yours and they’re on your, your services page and they’re looking at something. Uh, if you have information from like your staff database pulled right into that page of like, here’s the person you contact you about questions, then it’s all right there. They don’t have to then go digging through your contact form trying to figure out who to get in touch with if they have a follow up question. Um, so it makes it more informative, more engaging. Um,

[00:17:53.54] spk_0:
more relevant. It sounds like a page has more relevant. You’re saying a page would have a contact person not just go to our general contact page and try to try to sort through. Yeah. Okay.

[00:18:37.94] spk_1:
Yeah. And the last thing I mentioned, the last thing I’ll mention about that too is we’ve seen nonprofits air on the side of not including this kind of information at all. So out of fear of having to make sure they remember to take down an event when it’s past or avoid having to manually update all of these things. They’ll just leave blogs off of their website. They’ll leave events off of their website and then that is really irrelevant. I mean, you know, that’s what people go to like find this up to date information. They want to see that you’re doing things they want to read about you. So the alternative is not a good one too. Just not include this kind of dynamic information on your website. Makes it stale. Um, not helpful. Not informative. No. That’s another reason

[00:18:59.24] spk_0:
that what you’re describing now is the tail wagging the dog. You’re, you’re, you’re unsophisticated content management regimen. Not, you’re not necessarily the system, but the way you’re using it is, uh, is preventing you from putting relevant content on your site. That’s, that’s antithetical to what the whole purpose of a content management system.

[00:19:06.74] spk_2:
And I think we’ve all been to nonprofit websites that

[00:19:11.14] spk_1:
still

[00:19:11.49] spk_2:
have their event from six months ago on the home page. And that, that doesn’t have a lot of trust with your organization. Just I

[00:19:20.03] spk_0:
think just a week old, you know, oh, this is coming up. Oh no, it was last

[00:19:29.74] spk_2:
night. No, never mind. Uh, yeah. And it just immediately creates like a, what’s going on over there. Right?

[00:22:46.04] spk_0:
Just write it all contributes. Like Rachel’s suggesting it all contributes to an overall feeling that a donor a potential donor has. You know, it’s just see something stale on the website. I mean, this is 2022, you know that shouldn’t We’re not in 1996 websites where you know everything is done by by single keystrokes anymore. It’s time for a break. Fourth dimension technologies. Their I. T. Solution is I. T. Infra in a box. It’s budget friendly and holistic. It’s the it’s the buffet of I. T. Solutions because you take what you need and leave the rest behind. So as you’re browsing the buffet, walking through the line, you’ve got your tray sliding along on the on the silver rails. You can choose from I. T. Assessment. Yeah, I’d like a dish of that multi factor authentication comes in a small bowl just perfect. I’ll take one of those other security cost analysis help desk. Hmm that looks like a good dessert. I’ll take that along as well And there’s more in the buffet that you can choose from. So as you’re going along with your tray you choose what’s right for your I. T. Situation for your budget. Fourth dimension technologies. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. It’s time for Tony’s take two. Please share non profit radio I grew up with share share. That’s fair. Well not not exactly the sharing we’re talking about. That’s two brothers fighting over the same Tonka truck. They used to be metal back then but that’s a bit of a digression. non profit radio is it helping you? It’s your I I presume it is. Otherwise you wouldn’t be listening to me. So it’s helping you. Who else can it help that you know within your networks, your sphere of influence, somebody else who works at a nonprofit, somebody who works at your same non profit a board member, Maybe it’s a board member to your non profit you’d like them to have the savvy ideas, but but then you’re gonna give away your source of savvy ideas. So maybe that’s not such a good idea, board members and other nonprofits. Okay, so who do you know I’d be grateful if you would share the word of tony-martignetti non profit radio so that more folks can learn and benefit the way you are. Make it makes perfect sense. Right? So in that respect actually share share that’s fair is appropriate. So if you can share non profit radio with someone else. I would be grateful. Thanks very much. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got barely a butt load more time for using cope to keep your website fresh with Caitlin Gerber and Rachel cribs. All right, so I made you digress, Rachel we were talking about but I remember to go back, I I usually remember to go back to your your suffering a lackluster host but not not not untraceable, just lackluster. So you’re always talking about getting getting buy in on these uh on workflows adopting these new workflows

[00:23:04.54] spk_1:
you know

[00:23:05.85] spk_0:
to remind us to rationales good good for your constituents your website visitors, and then also good internally because you’re you’re saying exponential time savings,

[00:23:42.84] spk_1:
yes, it’s an exponential time saver. So hopefully the argument that this is really good for the people we are serving is enough. But if it’s not, you can also make the time saving argument. Um It also ensures it helps you ensure accessibility and a. D. A compliance um more efficiently on your website, which is, you know, usually that gets everyone’s attention. Um But again, that should be because it benefits your constituents, but this is because you can set up those forms in a way that, you know, the way that you’re putting the information in is always going to appear in an accessible way. Um Not only in terms of design aesthetic. So we’re talking about um you know, the type faces that you’re using some of the formatting things you can preset in this scope workflow. So every time it appears it’s meeting its compliant to that. Um But it also appeals to

[00:24:12.64] spk_0:
across your many pages. That’s another thing that it’s just a general again, just a general feeling of

[00:24:16.04] spk_1:
web

[00:24:16.39] spk_0:
web visitors, you know, that that’s a that looks like the headline on the other page was so much bigger and it was blue and this one is smaller and it’s red. Okay. And

[00:25:04.34] spk_1:
those design choices ideally should be made very carefully to make sure that it not only looks good but it’s it’s appealing to folks that may have different disabilities, visual impairments. Um even it even appeals to um neurodivergent learners so cope setting up cope on your website. This is kind of getting back to the benefit to the users so I promise I will get back to the organization. Um but it’s a good point is that it appeals to we say multiple browsing styles as I mentioned in the webinar. So you might you know Tony you might get two events on a certain web page by following a certain workflow that feels natural to you but Caitlin might find it differently and this kind of allows you to follow any of those

[00:25:08.20] spk_0:
pathways.

[00:25:09.64] spk_1:
You’re

[00:25:11.80] spk_0:
not doing it my way because I’m center. So if you’re not doing it my way,

[00:25:16.78] spk_2:
tony

[00:25:20.27] spk_0:
you’re shattering my reality, shattering my subjective reality. So please

[00:26:29.24] spk_1:
I would I would push back because Caitlin is like the most logical person I know, so I’m sure hers would be very direct but it appeals to that neuro diversity which again just gets back to um being more compliant and inclusive on your website which is going to to promote a sense of inclusivity of your brand, your organization. But um the last so that that A. D. A compliance is usually a strong case um to make with senior leadership and other members of your internal organization um and another big one is that it improves your search engine optimization results so um when folks are searching for different things on your website, if google suspects a sense of of structure to your content, um, it’s going to prioritize that in your S C. O. Um and also if you have the same piece of content, like a news article that pops up in multiple places, it’s also slightly more likely to appear, appear higher. So when people are asking, how can we improve our sc Oh, this is one really great way to be able to do that. So those are kind of a big the big benefits

[00:26:31.01] spk_0:
benefits the advantages. Okay, okay. Um you said it’s interesting if google senses a structure

[00:26:40.14] spk_1:
mm hmm,

[00:26:43.64] spk_0:
it can it can suss out a better organized versus less well

[00:26:47.41] spk_1:
organized

[00:26:48.74] spk_0:
web website.

[00:26:50.64] spk_1:
Google is essentially being google is very all knowing. Sorry, Caitlin, go ahead.

[00:27:34.34] spk_2:
No, it definitely, it definitely can. So it can tell if there are pages that are related to each other. So it is a bot that crawls around your website and if you’re making it easy for it to do that by relating things to each other, that makes sense. Um it is going to reward you for that. Um and as Rachel mentioned earlier, having things in the appropriate uh, aesthetics, but it is also kind of the underlying code, um, making sure you have a header on every page, making sure you have a description captions for photos relevant, links, things like that. Um it rewards that as well because it can tell that your content is broken up that it’s been thought through. Um, and it rewards those types of behaviors. Um, and so having a system that kind of enforces that for you. Um, really goes a long way. We’ve all seen pages that are kind of just walls of text with uh, you know, scattered headings and things like that. Um, google,

[00:27:57.54] spk_1:
I can tell

[00:27:57.97] spk_2:
that that is scattered. Um, and so you want to make sure things are structured as possible. Um, and using this workflow really goes a long way to achieving that structure that google is going to report.

[00:28:10.74] spk_1:
If you took away all the aesthetics from a website that’s designed this way, you would see a very thoughtfully, um, a very intentional like network and a web and that’s actually like internally how we design our sights as we start with those, those wire frames first and just these literal diagrams and so that’s kind of what google can see through versus like if you’re creating a website that reads more like a book of just like information, information, information, you want to think of it more as an interconnected web of information. And that’s, that’s what google is going to like better, that’s really what’s easier to browse from a user perspective, but kind of what Caitlin’s getting at with stu

[00:28:51.44] spk_0:
what else should we know

[00:28:52.25] spk_1:
about Cope,

[00:28:54.74] spk_0:
that you shared and don’t hold back on the nonprofit radio listeners, but

[00:28:59.38] spk_1:
what else

[00:28:59.67] spk_0:
did you share in your session?

[00:30:07.24] spk_1:
Um, I think that, I mean, what I would say again coming from the former non profit admin spaces don’t underestimate the importance of doing this kind of research when you’re coming up with a new web solution. Don’t just look for a website that is going to look really good, but it has to have some underlying structure make your job easier. Um, make your website visitors have a more enjoyable experience. It’s really, really, really critically important. And, and we think that, uh, lots of other people do too, that having a cope workflow and Cope systems is key to that. Um, we in, in other conversations Caitlin, I’ve had and you’ve maybe heard this before. Non profits are now calling their websites their digital front door, especially during covid. This is maybe the only way for one of the few ways we have to establish touchpoints with our constituents donors, you know, clients, patrons that were working with. Um, so I think that nonprofits should start investing the time in thinking as carefully about it as they do their brick and mortar organizations. Um, so, so Cope, we think is a really important part of that, of that structure

[00:30:12.24] spk_0:
Caitlyn. Can you remember any questions that you got that were significant?

[00:31:53.34] spk_2:
Yeah, I think, uh, people are always scared of how do I start like, okay, I want to do this. How do I even start doing this. Um, and I think not being afraid to just take that first step of just seeing where you are because you might be surprised, you might find that a lot of your content already is in this workflow and you’re doing a good job um and you might just need to make a few tweaks um so I think people hear this and think oh my God, I’m gonna have to start from scratch, um and if you’re using a common content management system, that’s probably not the case, um you’re probably already somewhat there. Um and so I think doing this assessment can really help people feel better um and feel more equipped with that knowledge. I think it sounds scary because it is an acronym and it is web development um and it can be this very technical thing. Um and so I think that where do I start is the question that we get the most. Um and it really is start with a scene where you’re at um and I think you’ll feel a lot better um and I think to uh you know, it’s working with the right people um so oftentimes uh find a partner that will work with you on this um and make your life easier and they’ll understand um so I think it’s all about finding those right partnerships um to kind of help bring this, bring this to life um but start somewhere that’s the biggest thing is don’t be intimidated by it, um don’t be scared of it because it’s technical um kind of take that first step and just see where you are.

[00:31:59.44] spk_0:
tony

[00:32:40.94] spk_1:
Can I add one other thing to that? Um, in terms of where to start, you know, start with one example, start with one place where you decided, okay, these two pieces of content relate, let’s have them appear on each other’s pages or connect in some way and the place to start might be um, you know, if you listen to, if you listen to your audiences or your constituents, maybe like what’s the question you’re always getting that you’re like, this is on the website. Why are people not finding it on the website? Maybe adopting a Cope mindset could be the solution to mitigating some of those questions and that might indicate where to start with setting up some of these structures and see how that works. So you don’t have to create this whole interconnected web all at one time. Maybe just start with one connection and build from there.

[00:32:57.34] spk_0:
Okay, excellent. Yeah, consistent with what Caitlin said, you know, don’t be intimidated its scope. You know, it’s cope, it’s it’s not, it’s not like, you know, some abstruse acronym create once, publish everywhere. It’s friendly. You can cope

[00:33:06.74] spk_1:
with popularized. We can cope with Cope, It was popularized by NPR what’s more friendly than NPR so we know that this is yeah, the about a decade ago, I think that’s where the term became popularized, um,

[00:33:17.07] spk_0:
executed it on their, to

[00:33:36.04] spk_1:
be honest with you. I’m not sure why it was popularized, but I know that it was kind of at a time when okay websites are becoming next level content creators have to start getting more savvy with how we’re pushing information out. Um, I think it had to do more with timing than this is necessarily something that they had adopted.

[00:33:46.94] spk_0:
That was like the 2008, If I have the timing right? You know, like making websites more sophisticated, much more user friendly thinking about the users who are coming and what they’re, what they’re flows are mapping, mapping their journeys through sites, things like that. All right,

[00:33:59.34] spk_1:
okay,

[00:34:01.84] spk_0:
wonderful. Thank you from both from Cleveland Ohio home of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,

[00:34:06.18] spk_2:
Caitlin

[00:34:10.44] spk_0:
Gerber Director of operations at form Rachel cribs account executive at form where what’s the what’s the form website you want to say it

[00:34:17.84] spk_1:
together ready? Just kidding. It’s

[00:34:21.36] spk_2:
the form groups dot

[00:35:43.74] spk_0:
com. The form group dot com. Okay Caitlin Rachel thank you very much. Pleasure and thank you for being with Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 22. NTCC next week. More from 22. NTCC if you missed any part of this week’s show. I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o Did my voice just cracked like I’m 14 Your story and by 4th dimension Technologies IT Infra in a box The affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott. Stein. Thank you for that. Affirmation scotty be with me next week for nonprofit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great. Mm hmm.

Nonprofit Radio for June 14, 2021: CRM Selection & What To Ask Before Your New Website

My Guests:

Rubin Singh: CRM Selection

As part of our continuing 21NTC coverage, Rubin Singh returns to help you focus on what matters in CRM selection. To keep you safe from a serious misstep, he also shares his thoughts on what else might be the problem, besides your CRM database. Rubin is CEO of One Tenth Consulting.

 

 

 

Stephen Tidmore: What To Ask Before Your New Website

Stephen Tidmore from Mighty Citizen built his first website in 1999, and hasn’t stopped. He shares the questions you need to ask up front, before you embark on a new website project. This is also from 21NTC.

 

 

 

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[00:02:46.34] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. We’re back to regular energy low. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Dyskinesia if you moved me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Non profit partnerships. Our 21 NTC panel reminds you you don’t have to do your work alone. You can increase your exposure by promoting the work of other org’s and even fundraise in partnership with other nonprofits. They’re taylor leak with corporate accountability and Jack Valor at Mall Warwick, donor digital and partnerships with African american churches now that you’re motivated to partner up Look to black churches, Anita lee and Oliver. Richmond help you understand the idiosyncrasies of church culture and how to cultivate a relationship. Anita is from Anita uplifts and Oliver is with Kingdom Partners. This is also from 21 NTC. You see how the show is put together here. It doesn’t just happen. You see this pervasive partnership theme running through which is what makes it pervasive, it’s all, it’s all coordinated. It’s all thought out On Tony’s take two planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome a new sponsor, send in blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue kicking off our partnership theme show here is non profit partnerships. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC the 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C. O. My guests now are tailor leak and Jack Valor Taylor is Digital director at corporate accountability and Jack is senior account executive at Mall Warwick donor. Digital Tell her Jack, welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:02:57.24] spk_1:
Thanks very nice to you. Pleasure

[00:02:58.44] spk_3:
and Taylor, I should say welcome back. Welcome back. Have you a previous uh, previous ntc coverage.

[00:03:05.11] spk_1:
Absolutely.

[00:03:26.44] spk_3:
Your session is what we accomplished together, building new and inclusive non profit partnerships. So who wants to start by just reminding us that we do not have to do our work alone. We can have, we can have help, who would like to start. Okay, fine. I’m gonna pick Jack, you start

[00:04:42.94] spk_4:
or um, so I think that really we came up with this concept because corporate accountability does a lot of great work partnering with a lot of wonderful organizations that have missions that are similar to theirs. Um, and we found that they were able to accomplish not only what they wanted to accomplish in ways that they didn’t have the capacity or resources to do otherwise, but also reach out to organizations that didn’t, you know, have the resources themselves to really boost their own missions and help in ways that they wanted to be able to help facilitate and grow organizations that they really believed in. So we wanted to kind of spread that message and talk through ways that organizations could partner and do things that would really change the world for the better, um, in reach out to each other and in, um, in ways that they might not expect.

[00:04:49.74] spk_3:
And, and taylor you can even, uh, increase your own exposure. The organizations don’t exposure by promoting the work of others.

[00:05:32.44] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the things that really stood out as we were developing this. And one of the reasons we came to this idea was, you know, in our experience, we found that these partnerships aren’t just beneficial for both organizations, sort of as a, as a one plus one, but actually it was, it was adding even more to our work when we partnered with other groups. So for instance, we did a giving Tuesday campaign with, partnered with a group in flint called flint rising. And we found that even though we were basically fundraising and giving half of the gifts that we brought in to flint rising, we were raising more, even giving away half than we had in previous years without a partnership like

[00:05:43.03] spk_3:
that. You for giving away half than you had when you when you were on your own.

[00:05:53.74] spk_1:
Yeah, exactly. So I think it’s sort of a net positive and you know, I think we are doing all we can to reject this idea that there’s sort of a zero sum, right? It’s more of a mindset of spreading the wealth and everybody being able to lift each other

[00:06:19.24] spk_3:
up rising tide, raises all boats or whatever metaphors we want to use. Well, whatever storms can this take that? That’s that’s outstanding example giving Tuesday. What other forms can this take, where you can improve your own outcomes by working with and promoting the work of others?

[00:07:27.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, one other example that we talked about, um, and I think Jack, you had a couple of really good examples from other organizations as well. Um, but we, uh, we also do a lot of work with coalition actions. So that’s sort of more on the on the advocacy and list building side. But this is essentially a tactic where you can start a petition and then invite a whole bunch of other groups to participate with you. Um, and not only is that a way for you and your partners who are working together to drive folks to this petition to grow their email lists, but for us, you know, it’s been, you know, are the organization, I work for corporate accountability. We have some pretty sort of niche, complicated issues. Um, and so this is a way for us not just to sort of like gather a bunch more petition signatures, but also sort of get our analysis and our campaigns and our ideas out there to a bunch more folks by getting other groups to promote petitions that we have developed to their membership as well.

[00:07:43.44] spk_3:
Okay, Cool petition drives Jack. You have, you have examples. I love these. I want, I want folks to realize that there’s a lot of possibilities around partnering and improving your own outcomes.

[00:08:09.94] spk_4:
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, one example that I think worked out really, really well is that, um, an organization that I work with simple virus fund there, a small local organization in the, they work help helping save and protect and restore uh, redwood lands in the santa Cruz Mountains

[00:08:13.76] spk_3:
and say the name of the organization again, just a little slower.

[00:08:17.37] spk_4:
Yeah. Semper environs Fund some

[00:08:20.95] spk_3:
semper environs.

[00:08:32.74] spk_4:
Mhm. Yeah, it’s a latin word that is for redwood trees. Um, it’s very, um, very, very specific. Yeah, exactly. Um,

[00:08:35.71] spk_0:
uh,

[00:09:20.94] spk_4:
so they, um, they partnered at, at the time, in august, there was a big fire in one of their parks, um, wildfire that happened during a time when there were wild fires all over California. And um, it was the very first part that they developed. Um, they partnered with California state parks as well as save the Redwoods League to um, bring together a bunch of donors who were very passionate about that park and wanted to save it and restore it back to its former glory. Um, They were able to raise throughout the entirety of the year, um, A ton more money because of that partnership. Um, they were able to increase their revenue by 152% and their gifts by 98% just through having that partnership with those organizations and spreading the word altogether.

[00:09:43.34] spk_3:
Jack, what do those campaigns look like? Give us the insight is every piece co branded? Does every piece talk about the work of the other and, or, and how the work overlaps? And what does that, what does that look like?

[00:11:01.34] spk_4:
I think, you know, it can be different. And that’s something that, you know, we definitely wanted to talk about when we put this together is that it really depends on how the organizations want to make this work, you have to come together and say, you know, what are we looking for? What do we want to accomplish here and um what do we want to, how do we want to come to the table? You know, do we want everything to be co branded? Like you’re saying, do we want um to just mention one another um in messages or do we want to um just kind of one time mention and then go about, you know, the rest of the campaign as usual. Um So you have to definitely agree upon all of your terms before the partnership even starts. Um So that you know, um you know what your expectations are and then that way no one gets hurt uh in the end so that you’re not not meeting those expectations?

[00:11:04.24] spk_3:
Okay, cool. Is there another example you have?

[00:12:21.34] spk_4:
Uh Yeah, so I think that um Mhm, pull up my notes um with World Animal Protection, which is another organization that I’ve been lucky enough to work with. Um They usually work with sanctuaries in lots of countries around the globe to save abused animals that can no longer live in the wild because they’ve been you know, in captivity um doing lots of terrible jobs or um you know, having lots of um difficult things put upon them. Uh We were able to create a giving Tuesday campaign around specifically raising money for sanctuaries um and the sanctuary campaign, because it um focused on those sanctuaries and on providing animals um direct money for them and for their needs, Brought in 161% increase in gifts and a 230% increase in revenue. Um

[00:12:24.84] spk_3:
And that’s of course that’s after sharing, Right? These numbers are incredible because it’s like over well over 100% increases.

[00:12:51.44] spk_4:
Mhm. Yeah, it’s really, really helpful too. You know, know that know what your audience cares about, know that they are looking for something different or something um that where they can really make a bigger difference and sometimes they are interested in um you know, they’re like, oh if if I can give here then I’m giving to two different organizations that are really, really wonderful and they’re meeting the um the needs of multiple different types of people or causes at the same time. So why wouldn’t I

[00:13:19.54] spk_3:
tell her somebody who was in one of these organizations? What like what detailed advice can you give for folks who are thinking about? It’s kind of a collaboration like maybe even just start with who might you collaborate with?

[00:16:50.84] spk_1:
Sure. Yeah. I think, you know, sometimes there are some pretty some pretty obvious uh places to start, right? So groups that you you know frequently partner with or that you would work with, you know, that either share sort of the kind of work that you do or share a mission and similar with you. But I think for us, one of the biggest things that we’ve actually had success with is finding groups that share our mission and share our work but have very different, different tactics are different strengths. So, you know, corporate accountability, we do a lot of sort of national and international policy based work. Um and we have had some of our best partnerships with really small state or local groups that are really focused on um grassroots or community organizing. Um and I think the reason it works is, you know, we’re able to sort of bring the bigger sort of systemic analysis and the policies and the sort of like the heavy big stuff, and then we’re able to point to these groups to say, you know, this is literally this is what how this impacts individual people’s lives, and this is how they’re going about working on fixing this, this isn’t just like a sort of zoomed out policy discussion, this is like a thing that is about real people. Um so we’ve had some really good success sort of partnering with groups that have, have different, have different approaches and different strengths to us. Um and I think those those can make really, really fruitful partnerships, um just because, you know, you’re you’re sort of complementing one another, I think, you know, you can I’ve we’ve had some really good partnerships with other sort of national policy oriented groups as well, but I do think that’s one place that I think it has been a little bit surprising to me is like actually like finding those groups that have a really different Thing that they do 2.2 is important. And then for us, you know, when we, when we started doing some of this work, one of the biggest pieces that was really important to us was um really being mindful of racial equity and equity overall. So we’re really approaching this as a way to sort of resource the movement. We’ve, you know, we started corporate accountability started Over 40 years ago with the nestle boycott in the late 70s. Um, and so that was a campaign where we were working primarily with organizations in uh, in South America. Um, and working to stop nestle from marketing infant formula in communities that it was really harmful for infant formula to be used and infants were getting sick and dying. Um, so we’ve always had this dynamic where we are a group that’s based in the Global North, in in the US, but we’re primarily, or often working with groups in the Global South and communities of color. So there’s there’s a built in power dynamic there that were always sort of aware of. And I think one of the, one of the things we really strive to do with these partnerships is to seek out, you know, black and uh of colour led organisations and Global South led organizations that we can work with and we can resource because oftentimes we have a much higher access to those resources than these other groups that are doing incredible work that you deserve this as much more more than we do. So that’s another another thing that we’ve really focused on. You know, that’s not centered everybody but

[00:17:12.24] spk_3:
corporate accountability has centered equity. It sounds like in probably across all your work. But and so it just becomes part of your D. N. A. And absolutely you have it in mind as you or it’s an objective as you as you look for these partnerships

[00:17:25.24] spk_1:
ellen-leikind

[00:17:57.14] spk_3:
How about some advice around you know like sticky points? Uh some problem issues, you know you trust your partners of course but things are gonna come up, you know no no agreement can anticipate everything or you know whether it’s a verbal agreement or a written agreement. And how do you how do you navigate some of the tricky parts like maybe somebody put something out that doesn’t quite describe your work correctly or you know things like that or whatever it might be. Oh that was it could be either one I was thinking of taylor because he’s been involved in these, but it could be either one of you, I don’t care if somebody step up this time.

[00:19:41.54] spk_1:
Yeah, I’m curious if Jack has other examples, but you know, I think, I think for us, um, really the biggest, the biggest thing is like, as Jack mentioned earlier, having agreements and having conversations in sort of, in the beginning, you know, really laying out what’s expected, what roles are going to be for each organization, uh, sort of how you expect things to look, how money is going to get dispersed if you’re doing joint fundraising, you know, sort of, all of those nitty gritty details. Um, and then, you know, it’s really, it’s really just communication, you know, checking in a ton. Um, you know, we frequently will do a whole slew of emails to try and promote some of these fundraising campaigns that are joined. And, you know, we build in a step where we literally just send the copy of the emails over to the partners and have them review them, um, just to make sure we’re being super upfront and saying like, does this sound good to you? Are we describing your work appropriately? Like, you know, is there a better way you would want to say this? Um, and so, you know, that, that I think is key for for us is just, is just that constant communication is really the most important thing. And I think, you know, even before that, just sort of building building deep relationships, um, and and sort of like cementing that trust before you are trying to jump in on something that’s big, like joint fundraising campaign where tens of thousands of dollars could be at stake. Great. Um, so it’s definitely not like a starting point in your relationship. It’s something that you want to, you want to build towards. Okay

[00:19:45.04] spk_3:
Jack, anything you want to, you want to add there about sticking points or you feel like taylor covered?

[00:21:17.34] spk_4:
Yeah, he mostly covered it. I would say, you know, to your point, tony um, about, you know, if you put something, someone put something out there and it doesn’t really meet, um, anything about your organization or what have you. I think, you know, talking about your brand, that’s something we kind of speak our touch on in our session. Um, uh, making sure that they have all of that information, your logos, um, all of that so that everything is laid out so that they’re following that information as well. That’s part of the initial communication that should happen. Um, so that they’re not, you know, using words that you would never use in your communications, things like that. Um, and I think another piece here is that you make sure that not that you’re treading lately, but that you’re working really entirely in partnership, in your in your, uh, coming to it with equity and, um, and real conversation in mind. Um, and knowing that there’s likely no harm meant from your partner because you you you want to not only build that partnership for now, but build it for the future. Um, who knows how beneficial it could be in, um, you know, the future campaigns, um, things that could come up where you could work together on something that could really, um, open yourselves up for some really, really amazing opportunities. So it makes sense to not do something that could cause some of that rift

[00:21:39.74] spk_3:
you all had. Right expanding lists by exchanging swapping is one of you more accustomed more acquainted with that than the other?

[00:21:44.64] spk_1:
Yeah, Probably me,

[00:21:49.64] spk_3:
Jack. Okay. Yeah.

[00:23:20.24] spk_1:
So we do this a ton. Um, and it’s a really, it’s a really great tactic. Um, it is something that we use Action Network, so it’s something that’s built into Action Network as a sort of email tool set and advocacy tools that not to not to bust market them, but they are the ones that have built this tool. Um, and essentially what it allows is when you set up a petition, um, you can invite other groups to also promote that petition. Um, and once you send them sort of a unique link for them to promote the petition with, um, it automatically tracks sort of where activists are coming from, and then automatically shares a proportion of the folks who signed that petition with your partners. Um, so the expectation is, you know, if if I am partnering with another group and they join and they send an email out to their list and get 100 new folks to join to sign that petition, That they would get out of the total pot of folks who take action 100 new folks to add to their list. Um So it’s sort of it’s a great way both to get more signatures than you would stand alone, right? You know, if your group can get x number of petition signatures inviting a couple other groups will get you a whole bunch more. Um but it also it also is a way to sort of for everybody to sort of grow their email lists and speak to folks who like actually care about your topics because they’re signing a petition that is based on your mission and your issues.

[00:23:46.74] spk_3:
Yeah. Cool. And of course it’s disclosed to people who sign right that they’ll they’ll they’ll receive materials from or however you were at this other, you know, the other group or groups. Okay. Any other ways any other ways of doing this besides petition drives?

[00:23:51.44] spk_1:
I mean that’s the sort of the main one I’m curious, Jack if if there

[00:23:55.60] spk_3:
you, have you seen this in other settings

[00:25:22.14] spk_4:
um in terms of um yeah, it’s mostly petitions or pledges, things like that, just mainly because it’s the easiest way to get another um organizations permission. The other way that I’ve seen it. Er Sorry, another um person’s permission to join a list. Another way that I’ve seen it done is when uh organizations will sponsor each other’s emails across um email. So one organization corporate accountability would say sponsor flint risings, email and they would just send flint risings email to their list. Um And have um flint rising whatever content that is um Those folks um people, corporate accountabilities folks just do whatever that action is for flint rising. I’ve also seen some organizations come together on things like quizzes, games, things like that. Um I put together a whole like mhm uh bracket for an organization before that was like these items like which one is the best? And then it ended up you know with a winner and it was like a couple of weeks long. Um And it ended up being really really successful where a bunch of different organizations were like fighting for which thing was the best on like social media and stuff. So

[00:29:18.84] spk_3:
okay collaborations partnerships, ventures, you don’t have to do your work alone. Right? All right, we’ll leave it there. All right. They are taylor leak. Digital director of corporate accountability and Jack Valor, senior account executive at Mall Warwick donor. Digital telephone jack. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. And thanks to all of you for being with 20 martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 ntc The 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 ntc by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Where would you like to be heard? Use outlets, conferences, podcasts, blogs, editorials. That’s all earned media and turn to can help you get it because they’ve got the relationships with the media outlets. What about your own media though? Owned media turn to can help you improve that because your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. It’s time for Tony to take two planned giving accelerator. The next class Kicks off on July one. People in the first class that started in january, they already started getting gifts in month three and by month four there were multiple gifts at multiple members of that very first class. So within only three and in some cases four months of a 12 month program, the gift commitments already coming in. If you join me in the July one class, you could have gifts by Halloween, This could happen for you too. Planned giving accelerator. It’s the online membership community that I’ve created. I teach you step by step, how to get your planned giving program started. We have monthly live teachings and ask me anything sessions and a podcast. Just for members. There’s resources like templates and checklists. All the stuff I was about to say all the ship, let’s keep it. It’s the stuff well, you know, I just said it. So all this, all the things you need To get your plan giving program launched in 2021 and like I said, join, join in, July joined the July class. You could have gifts by Halloween. It happened for members of the first class. So Where you get the info for the July one class, it’s all at planned giving accelerator.com. Check it out if you’re not in planned giving, I will get you started and if that applies to you, if you’re not in planned giving, I hope to join me for the July one class. That is tony steak too. Here is partnerships with African American churches. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC, the 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C. O. With me now is Oliver Richmond is president at Kingdom Putnam

[00:29:25.84] spk_0:
Oliver. Welcome. Thank you for having me on tony I appreciate

[00:30:07.14] spk_3:
it, my pleasure. It’s a very interesting topic. Uh we’re hopefully going to be joined by others who I will introduce as they come in. Now, Oliver joined on time and I don’t want to cut this segment short so we’re gonna get started. You’re topic, There’s someone right now there’s Aneta. Okay, we’re bringing in Anita lee Aneta welcome. We’re already recording live. So please join the conversation with me now is in Italy also she’s chief digital specialist at anoeta uplifts LLC and I had already introduced Oliver Richmond and your topic is Black Church a different kind of non profit

[00:30:09.54] spk_2:
Yes. So let me clarify just a little bit. It is Anita, it’s pronounced Anita,

[00:30:28.94] spk_3:
Thank you very much Anita. Okay, thank you. Okay, let’s stick with you Anita. Well not right. You know what let’s give it to Oliver because he came he was right on time. So I mean okay. Okay thank you Anita. Oliver. What you know black churches. Um I don’t go to one. What do you want folks like me to know about black churches?

[00:31:03.94] spk_0:
Black churches are the heart and soul of the black community. If you go back and look at history, that was the only institution that blacks own coming out of slavery. And the black church has been the one delivered services, tutoring, mentoring, food, spiritual help over the years. They have just been a pillar and helping keep those communities safe and all the good things came out of the black church in the black community.

[00:32:02.84] spk_3:
All the good things came out of the black church. All right. Yeah. I’ve had lots of guests on through the years. I’ve been doing this podcast over 10 years. And mostly they would they would bring up black churches when when it was uh you know, like a program they were trying to carry out like a couple of cases. It was something medical and uh I don’t remember. It wasn’t research, but it was some nonprofit work. And they had emphasized the importance of working through the churches to get community buy in for the for the program that they were trying to they were trying to carry out in the in the community. Um So I’ve heard about this through the years that the black churches are critical and and the and the pastors can be sort of conduits to the to the community. Am I standing there? Okay.

[00:32:05.94] spk_2:
Yeah.

[00:32:07.20] spk_4:
Over the

[00:32:56.14] spk_0:
years, the black pastors and leaders, if you look through civil rights, all different things, they’ve been the ones who have stood up for the community because they don’t have to worry about losing their jobs. Um, so so they stood up for the community and they’re respected as leaders, no matter what size their churches and the black community expects the black pastors to be involved in the community where some churches, the pastor just preached, uh, over the bible, priests teach and then they’re done. But the black church, they’re expected to be involved in the causes if it’s gangs, if it’s feeding health, whatever it might be, they’re the ones that look to, to bring that information deliberate to the people into the community.

[00:32:58.94] spk_3:
And you did, You sounded a little, a little skeptical about the way I said it. You said, well, you said it. Okay. But what, tell me more, what, what, what, what do you want to say to me?

[00:35:54.44] spk_2:
Uh, yeah. Um, I think that you’re absolutely right. Um and when you’ve spoken to many people over the years, yeah, it’s critical um, that black churches are involved, but I think it’s it’s only a small piece, I think that the general world nonprofit community um only see black churches within the lens of whatever program that they’re deciding to do instead of recognizing black church as the literal pinnacle of the black experience. So when you think about, um, our celebrities, our stars, our um, our millionaires and billionaires that that that that made the country looks up to, many of those people have started in the black church. Like if you think about any major musical star in any genre, from, you know, gospel and soul to R and B, even into rap and hip hop, you will find that all of those artists, most of those artists, how to start in the black Church, even if they’re talking about guns and drugs and shooting and sex, they all have uh start in the black church. And I think that that was the reason why I, you know, I intend to allow me to do this because um, from politics and, and from, from health, from business, our major ivy League, historically black colleges and universities are hBc use. Many of them started in the basement of a black church. The obvious one of the more famous ones, Morehouse, um, where dr martin Luther King got his degree and Spelman, which was the female counterpart to Morehouse, was started in the basement of friendship baptist church in Atlanta Georgia. So, and I’m sure you’ll probably have, you know, you can probably hear stories in other cities as well. So I think that that’s what I wanted the nonprofits to see and to understand that were just that, that the black church and the experience of black church is not a place where you can go get your program started and you can hit your demographic. It really is a place where the, the intensity of the culture and the whole meaning the essence of African american experience is based. Mhm.

[00:36:15.33] spk_3:
Thank you. And Anita, you want us to think about partnering with African american churches? That’s the the, I mean, yeah, that’s the whole purpose of the your session. By the way, I have some work going on. You might hear a song in the background. I hope it’s not hope. It’s not too annoying. No

[00:36:15.64] spk_2:
worries.

[00:36:17.13] spk_3:
Can you hear me? You hear me over it? Can you I hear you over it? Okay, good. Okay. Um, yeah, so you want to encourage us to uh non profits to be partnering with the churches.

[00:37:41.63] spk_2:
Right? And not only do we want the nonprofits to partner with churches, We want you, we wanted nonprofits to understand the uniqueness and the idiosyncrasies that that comes with partnering with Black Church, which is reason it was called Black Church a different kind of nonprofit. Yes. It is a non profit in the essence that it’s five oh one C three and you know, things of that nature or it might not even be five oh one C three. Um, it’s structured around providing those social services, um, but it does not necessarily operate as, you know, your typical nonprofit with a board and you know, and in programs and things of that nature. And so, um, in order to have an effective partnership, um, I wanted nonprofits to understand this is the essence of what Black Church is and these are the ways that she provide or create uh, successful institute, sustainable partnerships. While you’re trying to fulfill your mission for your non profit Oliver

[00:37:47.53] spk_3:
can we, can we go to you to acquaint us with some of the, the idiosyncrasies that Anita is referring to.

[00:39:17.82] spk_0:
Yes. One of the things we work with a ton of black churches and white churches, but one of the things that you want to do is visit the church, see what kind of things they’re doing. I mean, you can look at the announcement, say if they got kids doing announcements, they’re talking a lot about you. You know that church probably want to do things with youth. That’s their where their heart is at. So as you, as you meet people try to meet people in their leadership and if you can get a meeting with the pastor, go there, Get a meeting with the pastor. You talk 10%, let him talk 90 and asked him to share his vision in his heart for the community and that out of that conversation, you’re going to see the things that he’s excited about it that he want to do. And your role is when your partner with them engaging them. If you’re doing youth and maybe they’re passionate about prison ministry, you try to connect this to somebody that can help you with prison ministry and you bring a lot of credibility to them. And guess what if you work with you, he’ll connect you to a pastor that has a big, nice youth program. I want to work with you from the community. So you got to hear their heart and listen to them and you might have the greatest thing that you want to do, but it might not be a fit because just like people, churches have capacity for a few things that they can do well. And you got to seek those out when you engage them. Uh, and you have a lot more success when you do that.

[00:40:41.71] spk_3:
It’s time for a break. Send in blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with tools to build end to end digital campaigns that look professional, They’re affordable and keep you organized. So we’re talking about digital campaign marketing. Most marketing software is designed for large companies and comes with the enterprise level pricing. Send in Blue is priced for nonprofits. It’s an easy to use marketing platform that walks you through the steps of building a campaign like step by step, like playing, giving accelerators step by step, try out, sending blue and get a free month. Hit the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. It’s aptly named now you thought the baku but loads got obliterated when I didn’t invoke them after Tony’s take too, didn’t you? You were wondering, I’ve got your back, we’ve got boo koo but loads more time for partnerships with african american churches Anita, you want to elaborate on more of the idiosyncrasies folks should be aware of. I

[00:42:13.20] spk_2:
think, uh, no, I think Oliver is very, you know, and the reason why I had him on our panel is because he is the embodiment of the cross sectional of not only with black church and white church and also with black church and, and non profits. And so, um, I have to say like during our session, we did have someone that posed the question of the fact that they are not christian, uh, they’re not black and so they were concerned as to whether or not they would be able to, you know, attend church service. And uh, and I want to bring this out, Oliver because it just makes sense. Um, he said, you don’t have to be a christian to attend church, you can attend church, you don’t have to be a christian to attend church. And so you, you know, and so it’s just important that, um, just like a nonprofit has a mission. Churches have a mission, right? And so even though most of them, the main mission is saving souls and um, and, and, and provide, you know, providing the, spreading the gospel of jesus, that’s the main mission. But to Oliver’s point, you know, different churches have different sort of passion projects, just like the nonprofit has a passion project. So you’re not going to see the environmental non profit doing stuff with prison, right? Because that’s not their mission, There’s is saving the environment, Right? And so, um, it’s that research and that intentional research by visiting that church is where you will learn what’s a good fit for your organization. And then also partnering up

[00:42:54.70] spk_3:
Oliver, it sounds like the pastor is really the key, like sort of the ceo of the church. You have any other advice about getting his or her attention, You know, you said listen, listen 90% and talk 10% before we have twice as many years and only one or two layers in one mouth. But what other advice is, you know, like as you’re just trying to introduce yourself before you, before you, you know, before you, before you try to visit the church, just trying to get that,

[00:43:05.70] spk_0:
how

[00:43:07.05] spk_3:
we’ll

[00:44:07.29] spk_0:
find out who, who some of the key leaders are. You can go to their website, uh, even look at the brochure and find out who some of the key leaders are and talk with them and see if they can give you a warm introduction to the pastor. Another one the key points is, And I made this mistake years ago, I’ve been working with churches 27 years, particularly black churches wherever the pastor points you too go follow up in that direction. Uh, because sometimes you want to just get to the past. Or maybe he might give you a phone conversation and say go talk to tony and you might not tony Know that Tony is his right hand man. He’s going to rely on tony or whether we should engage in his partnership and do this program. So sometimes people try to get to the pastor, but he might have someone else that he wants you to work with and then they’ll share the big idea. He’ll rely on them. So whatever the rescue send you going, that direction followed them.

[00:44:11.49] spk_3:
Anything else Anita you want to add about trying to make that, get that first introduction that, that break that ice.

[00:46:38.58] spk_2:
Well, just to keep in mind, um, uh, that depending on the denomination, which is brings in the intricacies of the fact of, you know, now and, and that’s just protestant, the whole protestant religion totally right. You got all these different denominations and sections and districts or whatever. Um, but that’s on the onus of the nonprofit professional to do their particular research and to understand that um, one to Oliver’s point when they pointed to that person to go ahead and and, and engage, but also know in different situations. The pastor may not necessarily be the like the decision maker, right? They maybe they might not be the one that is the one that may, he may be a part of it, right? But it might be the trustee board. Um, it might be the deacon’s board, it might be, you know, some other institution. It might be the superintendent. That is the one that really has the quote unquote power to engage the church in, in, in partnerships. And so, um, that’s just, you know, an additional thing to kind of consider. And then, of course, you know, and in that vein, as I’m thinking about it, that kind of, you know, put that, that might make the nonprofit professional a little bit more comfortable because it’s almost like talking to a board, right? It’s, it’s, you know, as the other nonprofits, like here’s the board and they’re the one that makes the decisions and some denominations are set up like that. Some are totally not the ending the beginning and the end Alpha and omega comes from the past. So it’s just just an additional step. Um, you know, once you’ve, you know, visit the church and maybe, you know, like I did a little research, checking out the website, maybe attending a service or maybe not attend the service, attend an event. The church is having a volunteer. Um, no one’s gonna turn around and turn away a volunteer, no matter what. Right. That’s, that’s not probably one or one. So, you know, volunteering for something and you, you kind of get a sense of who’s, you know, who’s the kind of the one that’s kind of running the programs and, and, and making the decisions. So yeah,

[00:46:46.68] spk_3:
I needed your work at uplift. Uh, it sounded to me like it was the intersection of black churches and technology.

[00:46:54.58] spk_2:
It is, it is um, it was it’s basically, uh, my new social entrepreneurship one out of the, um, my, my own sort of personal mission around digital inclusion and um, in digital inclusion efforts and the fact that I truly believe that churches um, can be a place of opportunity when we’re talking about closing the digital divide. Now, I’ll be honest with you Tony. I’m not only am I trying to get tech folks and nonprofits to see churches as places of opportunity. I’m trying to work on the churches as well to try to get them to understand that this is a different or new evolution of ministry for them. So that’s kind of kind of my personal mission and cause and ministry, if you will.

[00:48:14.87] spk_3:
So I trying to expand everybody’s circles where they find the intersection between them and and end up doing good work for for all the communities. Yes. All right. We still got some good time together. A good amount of time together. What, what, what else would either of you like? Talk about other questions you got from your session or something else you covered in your session that we haven’t talked about yet, throw it open to

[00:49:41.37] spk_0:
you. I think one of the things tony really helped get engaged is support them. I’ll give you a prime example of a couple of quick examples when, when the virus hit and shut down everything. We partner with a technology group to bring hotspots online, uh, notebooks with urban black churches And got them online so they can get giving online. They didn’t have the technology, they didn’t know what to do, but we’ll never helped 40 of them. So guess what? I can pick up the phone anytime and call those pastors directly and say, hey, let’s look at doing this. I didn’t ask him for anything, didn’t want anything, but if you can help serve them another example, uh, it was a water shortage in Mississippi pastor said Oliver can you help get some water? I said, well let me send you a check and said no, no don’t send me a check because I got to go get the water. I need you to bring over the cases of water. So guess what? I went to Sam’s couldn’t get as much water because only so much in the car and I can push it. But guess what? Now our relationship is deeper because I was able to help a need that he was trying to fulfill to take a truckload of water down. Uh, and then, so now when I call them up with something that we want to do with his church or in the neighborhood, he’ll take that call and listen and more be more aptitude to work with us because we support them in the time of meat.

[00:50:29.36] spk_3:
Hey build trust. Yes, he had, he had a problem and you had a solution that you know, that that builds trust, I’m sure needed your degree. You know, this if you’re going to approach any of this or any other, any relationship, you know, transactional e I, you know, we want to get this out of it. We’re here for six months and then we’re moving on with some other project, then you shouldn’t even bother. I mean, but if you want to, but if you want to build a relationship, not that you have to be working together forever either. But if you’re gonna look at it as a transaction versus opening the door to a relationship, you’re, you’re short changing yourself the church, you’re trying to partner with the program. You’re trying to expand or build. You know, it’s it’s

[00:50:30.31] spk_2:
and the people you’re trying

[00:51:02.96] spk_3:
to serve and the people you hope to help. It’s not a it’s not a one and done. You know, it’s a we’re trying to build a relationship here. We don’t we don’t know the ways we might be able to work together in the future. You know, we got an idea how we could do what we can do now in this next six months or a year. But who knows what the ensuing years could bring. You know, it’s just basic relationship building. The same thing you do with your volunteers, your your donors. You know, you don’t look at them as transactions as a T. M. S. You get something out and then walk away. So, same thing here with any relationship, whether it’s with an individual or uh, an institution, like a black church. All right, that’s right.

[00:54:01.34] spk_2:
So yeah, I agree with you Tony, I agree with you so much tony I think I said that was more into the essence of why I wanted to do this. Um I think um so another reason as to why I presented this to anti china had to do with um an actual project that I did as a digital inclusion fellow um and in connection with the Rainbow push Coalition, and we were trying to establish some digital inclusion um programming at churches here in Atlanta. And it was because um the organization just did not understand each other well that the program itself for the initiative itself really didn’t experience the level of success that it could have. Um because on the church side, uh they weren’t fully educated as to what he was trying to be done. And then on the nonprofit side, they really, um, honestly did not understand the fully understand the idiosyncrasies of black church. Um, and I’ll give you a small example. Um, one of the, one of the criteria for the churches that was in the program, um, was that they needed to fundraise, um, a specific amount of dollars, and then the nonprofit was going to match that fundraisers, and then that was supposed to be, um, not quote unquote given, but sort of giving access to the fellow so that the fellow can use that those funds to build out the program. Well, as I was sitting there as one of the fellows listening to, you know, listening to how this work, I said, there’s a whole time kind of shaking my head. I said, you can’t do that with black shirts, you can’t just tell them to just fundraise for a specific a specific event and not run it through the sort of proper channels where everyone, including the leadership of the church is on board, um in order to in order to make it happen. And so what happened was, is that it kind of fell by the wayside because the church is was like, uh huh, what are you, what are you talking about? Fun. What do you mean? Like in addition to my ties and offerings or something different, something, whatever. And so unfortunately, go

[00:54:03.37] spk_3:
ahead. I need you to wrap up with with your takeaway from that. Okay. We just have a minute left. What’s your takeaway?

[00:54:09.44] spk_2:
So the takeaway is, is it’s just still important to to get that, do that research and and begin to understand one another. And it doesn’t just say, oh, you have my demographic. So let’s just do it and it takes time like you said, to build that relationship troubles.

[00:54:28.84] spk_3:
All right, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you. Need to leave Chief digital specialist at Anita uplifts LLC and Oliver Richmond, President Kingdom Partners, Anita. Oliver, thank you very much.

[00:54:38.71] spk_2:
Thank you.

[00:54:40.64] spk_0:
Take care now.

[00:56:07.84] spk_3:
Thank you very much. And thank you for being with Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 ntc 2021 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o next week. CRM selection and new websites as our 21 NTC coverage continues. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. And by sending Blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in Blue, our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Yeah, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty You with me next week for nonprofit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

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[00:00:10.94] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas

[00:01:50.94] spk_1:
for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow a gangly own aroma if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show. A better website. 52 tweaks In 52 weeks, Crystal and Dominique Hernandez revealed lots of small tweaks for your site to increase constituent reach, engagement and actions taken. They promise they reach less than an hour to implement Chris’s from Tuttle Co. And Dominique is with Institute for Policy Studies. This is part of our 20 NTC coverage. Also, keep your shiny new website shiny and new now that you’ve tweaked your way to a better site. How about a maintenance plan to keep it looking great? Get plenty of tips and techniques from Josh Lyman and Samantha Wasserman, both from Great Believer. That’s also part of 20 NTC coverage world about websites today. Non tony take to start the racism conversation were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo. Here is ah better website. 52 tweaks in 52 weeks. Hello and welcome

[00:02:39.64] spk_2:
to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and T. C. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference we’re supposed to have been in Baltimore. The conference was canceled, but we’re going ahead. Virtually non profit radio coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? My guests are, as we kick off, the coverages are first of all, the NTC interviews. My guests are crisp little and Dominique Hernandez Chris is principal at Tunnel Co. And Dominique Hernandez is website administrator for Institute for Policy Studies. Chris Dominique. Welcome.

[00:02:42.24] spk_3:
Thank you so great to be here.

[00:03:03.74] spk_2:
I’m glad the three of us could get together. I know you’re each well and safe. I’m glad to know that as well. Um, we can’t be together in Baltimore, but we can cover the topic just as well. I think virtually 52 tweaks in 52 weeks to a better website. So you’ve got something that lasts. E think you say each of these is like an hour or less, and we can tackle one of them a week. Dominique, is that true?

[00:03:16.04] spk_4:
That is true. Um, gold from a patient is to really keep each of these tips as a bite sized chunk that a busy and oftentimes trap not profit communications professional. 10. Set aside a little bit of time for each week. And when you add all of these together cumulatively you made of you made a big improvement on your site was not a huge time about that.

[00:03:59.28] spk_2:
Okay, Yeah. Your description says we can increase constituent reach and engagement. Um, actions taken. So these air Uh Ah. Audacious, ambitious outcomes. But we can do ah, you know, spend an hour a week doing them so cool or less. Less than an hour a week for some. So why don’t we dive in? Dominique won t kick us off with now. We’re not going to be able to 52 in in Ah, you know, roughly 25 minutes or so. So we need your top. Well, whatever. However, many, maybe 10 or so we’ll get to if we depending. How much? We elaborate. 10 maybe 12 or so. So pick your pick your top ones, and we’ll go here where you got Dominique.

[00:04:22.14] spk_4:
We have picked the couple to talk about as our top save, so I’ll talk about a few of mine. Um, what I mind is to use mobile and technology to help your your feed your mobile feed when they’re accessing your articles on a phone. You might have noticed this when you Google article or when you google with top it. Sometimes the first results will have will be from a new stores, and we’ll have a little lightning bolt left of them. And the lightning bolt means that you saw the framework that helped load Web pages in less than a second and uses 10 times less data than regular Web pages who prioritize your results. Um, and that back close time is really good. First facility is Well, that’s one of mine.

[00:05:06.17] spk_2:
This is called This is called Mobile AMP. A M P

[00:05:09.43] spk_4:
ghoul a mt for accelerated mobile project

[00:05:13.94] spk_2:
Accelerating mobile project. Okay. And where would you find that to install it.

[00:05:24.78] spk_4:
You have to install their framework on your site. You can download it from them and throw it into the code that you can install on your website around your horrible

[00:05:36.11] spk_2:
Okay. Um all right, so just search for Google. Accelerated mobile. Help me.

[00:05:37.53] spk_4:
Accelerated Mobile Project framework

[00:05:39.70] spk_2:
Project Framer. OK, thank you. All right, cool. That sounds That sounds like less than an hour, Much less

[00:05:45.70] spk_4:
it would be. Yes,

[00:05:47.49] spk_3:
it could be. Okay.

[00:05:49.20] spk_4:
You want about these back and forth?

[00:05:51.34] spk_2:
Yeah, Go ahead. Yeah, I will play a little pink bomb. If it gets laborious, I’ll let you know.

[00:07:01.00] spk_3:
Sure. Well, it’s also add that, you know, we do. Estimate is about an hour. But what may take me an hour may take you 15 minutes or 30 minutes, or it may take you two hours. So, um, some, we’re gonna be a bit longer or more difficult for other than others, depending on who you are and your access to different features and functionality in your organization. So I think since Google amp. Is while easy one somewhat a technical one, that’s probably gonna be a website administrator or when programmers that are working on I’m gonna give one. That might be easier for all of us to your lives or even for a communications team, which is using a color checker to figure out whether or not the colors that were used anything on our website are visible. The people with different forms of color blindness or are easy to read for people who have different visual impairments that might make it difficult to see things that are in low contrast colors and distinguish between the maybe text in the front and the background color of the Web page. Okay, so one tool that we suggested that could be used for this is Web aim dot ward, as resource is on a contrast checker. And then there’s also several color blindness checkers that could be easily down vehicle that are completely free to use.

[00:07:17.54] spk_2:
Okay, cool. I’ve got an interview coming up today or tomorrow on total website accessibility. Why you? Why? It’s beneficial for your site to be accessible to those with disabilities special needs, but but it helped improve the sight overall for everyone.

[00:07:44.03] spk_3:
It does when we also remember that you know one in 10 males and have some type of color blindness. And there are multiple types of colorblindness that that influence what they can see and how people see things. And not all. Color blindness is a light, but you know more than 10% of the population as either color blindness or other visual impairments. And so it’s better for all of us. Makes information easier to see you. And we have high contrast and colors representing important information or details. But it’s also going to make our sight completely inaccessible if we don’t check these things.

[00:07:55.32] spk_2:
Yeah, okay. And that was again. There was Web A I am dot org’s right

[00:07:59.64] spk_3:
with aimed at work.

[00:08:02.94] spk_2:
Okay, cool. All right, Dominique, your you know your turn.

[00:08:05.84] spk_4:
Sure. So another one of my favorites on here is to deploy a CBN TDN stands for content delivery network. I’m a developer. So a lot of fun in our technical, but I tried to really bring them down to things that are easy for everyone to access. Um, and what a cdn does is reduce the loading time of your site by actually reducing the physical distance that the information has to travel across wires. So instead of having one copy of your site on a server. Somewhere in the world, there are multiple local copies. And when when they’re pure miles on the wire that that improved the load time of your site they were once really, really expensive and difficult boy and would really require developer help. But as time have done on, they’ve gotten a lot cheaper and often time. Your Web host will have them. We’ll have a package for them. Um, that will cause not that much. Um, not model. Really crazy amount. So one of my tweets is definitely check to see if your host offers a cdn and how much it costs. Definitely worth it again for your time.

[00:09:09.44] spk_2:
Okay? And you’re asking the company that hosts your site?

[00:09:14.04] spk_4:
Yeah,

[00:09:42.04] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As. The ship is still moving fast. Congress passed the Paycheck Protection Program Flexibility Act. It allows your or GE 24 weeks to spend money on forgivable expenses instead of only eight, and increases the time to pay back what’s not forgivable. It’s all explained at wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource is and Blawg. Now back to a better website. 52 tweaks In 52 weeks.

[00:09:49.73] spk_2:
It’s getting a little monotonous going back and forth, but we’re gonna do maybe two at a time. But go ahead, Chris, you go and you’re gonna be feet up with new Chris, and then we’ll give Dominique to okay, Why don’t you choose

[00:09:57.10] spk_3:
a couple of a couple others that are favorites of mine? One, I think a fairly easy one that we all overlook. And that’s also something we should say here. Dominic and I are not pretending that we’ve done all of this perfectly ourselves. In fact, in developing this resource on developing this presentation way, we’re very clearly used. Examples of sites we work, our that needed. They need work. Uh oh. This is

[00:10:20.32] spk_2:
very humble of the two of you. Thank you.

[00:11:12.74] spk_3:
We’ll just a note like this is a process for all of us. And that’s exactly why we wanted Teoh share this idea of having about our weak we prove improve our website with, instead of just waiting five years, there’s been tons of money redesigning and trying to fix everything at once. And then, of course, falling a little bit short of that goal because there’s always going to be improvements to be made So with that two easy ones that could be done. One is the four for error page uh, for non tech things, you may not know what the 44 pages For everybody else, it is that error page that we see when the Web page we intended to find either be a link search result or something else was not bound. This often happens when websites ah, restructured, updated, redesigned or moves from different platforms and hosts. But it can also happen just because we changed the URL or change the title even of a block post. And so customizing are 44 Page ensures that people who are trying to find the content they couldn’t aren’t just left at a dead end. We can customize that page. You say something that’s a little bit more friendly than four or error and tell the user what’s actually happening and give them tools and actually fixing that error, like searching the internal website for the resource they were looking for, or giving a link to the most commonly used or access resource is where they’re hosted now, or asking the user to do something else. It’s to join you on a different channel or even subscribe and trying to contact you directly to try to find the help that you were looking for.

[00:11:48.05] spk_2:
So you could you could put a search bar on that 404 error page.

[00:11:52.09] spk_3:
You can quite easily. In fact, a lot of the content management systems like Group A. WordPress Jumla. Um, it’s fairly easy to configure this with the internal centric capabilities that already exists.

[00:12:03.88] spk_2:
OK, OK, yeah, that’s true. Now that I’m thinking about it, I have seen some that are much more friendly. You know, we’re sorry you landed here. We can’t find what you’re looking for. I guess I have seen them with a search or right, As you suggest. Maybe you’ll be interested in this other content that is most popular or something like that. Yeah. And the others air just, uh, somewhere. Just bear templates that nobody’s ever looked

[00:12:48.21] spk_3:
like Yeah or Brandon pages that maybe a euro they fought should go somewhere like a ah organization. Uh, orc slash donate. They thought was going to take him to the donation for which it should, if it doesn’t. But there’s all types of reasons that users might be typing in or finding a bad world. So the second tip there are traps that we can make is also utilizing our websites. They’re hosting service’s, depending on what Web post you have. Or if you’re using something like WordPress true, Juma or dribble installing a plug in that will help you easily find those 44 pages. What are the links that people are active thing? That I’m returning the 44 page so that you can create custom redirect X for each of those page pages, either taking them now not to that customized for four cage, but to the specific resource they have meant to find in the first place.

[00:13:18.83] spk_2:
Okay, how do we do this? How do we find all the links that are causing the four forever’s?

[00:13:48.18] spk_3:
Yeah, if you’re armed, any of the major content management system was like WordPress, triple or Jumah. There are plug ins that exists. We use redirect a redirection. Our WordPress often eyes an easy plug in that will tell you what of those four for what pages? What your l’s are returning those four for error messages and will allow you to create a custom, uh, redirect from a specific you world to the new one. Very easy to use. I mean, really this to the states. Less than an hour for sure. Um, just set up andan. Actively. Manage over time.

[00:13:57.14] spk_2:
Okay, cool. Those 404 related. Excellent. Thank you. All right, Dominique.

[00:14:50.89] spk_4:
Sure. So another one of the treats I’d like to talk about is that you can perform a responsiveness review test without having tablets or phones with part of you using developer pool in the major browsers in the major browsers in chrome and Firefox, it’s either control on Windows Air Command on a Mac plus shift. Plus, I brings up a developer pulled interface where you’ll see the website and you’ll see a bunch of code at the bottom of the great place at a CSS if you want to. But along the hop, there’s a bar where you can simulate all different kinds of devices all different. Find the full homes or programs in iPhones going back several generations, some of the more popular android phone tablet sizes, and you can also put in any custom screen resolution screen sizes that you want. You’ll see how your site will render on any of those and anything, anything that might be getting hung up anything that falls off the page, it doesn’t look quite right. You know exactly what? The edit? You actually have have any of the devices? Part of you did do that simulation right there. Building your brother.

[00:15:07.13] spk_2:
Okay. Could you give us those keystrokes one more time, please?

[00:15:10.84] spk_4:
Sure. Its control on the windows or command on a Mac plus ship. Plus I

[00:15:16.84] spk_2:
okay, okay.

[00:15:57.21] spk_4:
And another one, which is more about accessibility That Chris was talking about before with color tracker, um is to try to interact with your website without about their folks that that used what place? Exclusively using keyboard navigation. And you should be able to from the address bar, you should be able to hit a tab key and other keyboard controls to move through every element on the page. Those elements should be highlighted with a little box. And there are right. I see your face right now. Is this something that you don’t think about if you are mouth user all the time, But there folks who don’t use amount and is every element under page accessible to some without using a mouth, I think is a really good thing to check over. You could at least do that check in the hour time frame and then schedule out any improvements that you need to make.

[00:16:16.44] spk_2:
Okay. Yeah. I mean, if we have thousands of pages, isn’t that this is gonna This is gonna be a much longer one, beyond-potential

[00:16:21.04] spk_4:
e. I mean, for a lot of these, I would say focus on your home page and your top traffic pages like coffins analytic. See, with those top traffic pages are you know, what are the top five that really get people eyes on them? Um, if you have paid on your site that gets three visitors a year, it’ll be fine. Don’t worry about it. You know, focus on what really has live on it.

[00:16:40.64] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Did you give us another one?

[00:16:47.24] spk_4:
I give you another one. Okay. I’m gonna go down in the things

[00:16:48.45] spk_2:
I said to and then I made three e.

[00:16:52.84] spk_4:
I have another one right here. This

[00:16:54.66] spk_3:
one actually is

[00:16:56.56] spk_4:
two for easy. Especially if you’re using WordPress or another constant mounting system at a two factor authentication for your log in screen.

[00:17:05.94] spk_2:
Two factor authentication. Oh, yes. Okay. Yes.

[00:17:09.05] spk_4:
You have Robert for walking folk logging in from different locations. If you’re sharing while giving the developers or other external people just make sure that everyone feeling being really faced when they log in and protector security

[00:17:20.59] spk_2:
is that sort of a spy becoming the standard now? I mean, I get I get that offer from a lot more sites now. Then I did on it Seemed like even just a year ago or so, you know, encouraging me. Teoh, sign up for two factor authentication, whether it’s by email or by text message is that Is that sort of becoming the standard Loggins?

[00:17:41.72] spk_4:
I haven’t. I see. It was standard. A lot of fun with account. Loggins for other website. I haven’t seen it. I would like to see it, but haven’t seen it rising as a standard for your actual admin account to manage the back end of a website. But I do think it’s a smart security move.

[00:17:57.44] spk_3:
Okay, if I can add I mean, we’re seeing websites of nonprofits becoming targets of attack increasingly so over the last four years, a ZX, much as foreign agents or tryingto have corporate websites. It’s They’re also trying to hack non profit websites, and it’s incredibly easy. We’ve heard of nonprofits have had their websites held for ransom, who had them taken over used maliciously. And so I actually have toe not just agree, but kind of reinforce. I think we’re done. Nick is saying that we should all consider two factor authentication of requirement for our jobs and are not profits. If we have access to something like administrative controls of a website, have access to private constituent data. Have access to private donor data. Mads, most of us in our organizations.

[00:18:42.93] spk_2:
Okay, Chris, go ahead. You’re

[00:20:57.34] spk_3:
okay. Two more. Two more. Um, these are actually two of my favorites because it’s something that’s so in a way, very easy. But, um, none of us really do well and myself included. I think we overlook it because it’s what happens after a transaction. So it’s the confirmation page and the acknowledging the emails is there to tweaks confirmation page and acknowledgement emails that people see and receive after they take a major action on our website. Like sign up, subscribe. Donate to us. You think of the confirmation page 100% of people who went to the process and got to your donation page and made a donation. 100% of them are going to see a confirmation page, and about 80% of them are gonna open that acknowledgement email. And yet most of us use that content as another debt. It basically a wall to say thank you. Here’s what you just did. I find it especially funny of acknowledging the emails, and I’ve done some research with various organizations that worked with over the years, looking at large scale amounts of acknowledgement emails that were sent versus newsletters versus appeal letters versus other types of email communications. And while emails, appeals and other newsletters receive anywhere between, like 10 50% open rates, at least 80% of our users are opening the acknowledgement email that tells them what they just did on your website. So can we use that as an opportunity to provide a new engagement for them or a new call to action? But I try to end every engagement opportunity or touch points like a donation with an opportunity for three new touch points to begin, and that could be as easily as watch this video to find out how your body is gonna be abused or the impact you just help us make It can be. Subscribe to our email so you can stay on top of what’s happening next. It could be a tender local event. Follow us on social media. Tweet your support. There’s so many ways that we can keep folks engaged instead of simply saying thank you and goodbye. So that’s two of them. That’s our confirmation page. The page we see after the taken action. What? How can we customize that to make it more engaging and offer more for the donor to do next? And it’s our acknowledge me email, usually an email they received within 24 hours after taking a major action on our website. And Mike Wise also usually gives them tax information or confirmation what they just did, but also an opportunity to ask them to tweet, click, follow, share, watch we do more.

[00:21:14.05] spk_2:
Okay, I was just gonna ask, Are these good places Teoh acquaint people with the social channels for

[00:21:42.95] spk_3:
absolutely campus? Yeah, I would. I would make it a little bit more personal, probably, and customize it more than just follow us. Um, I took one tactic I’ve seen used. That I really appreciate is following it up with a thank you video that maybe is, or an impact video that’s hosted on a social media channel that you can either link to, say, Watch this video and then take them to Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn wherever you want them to be. YouTube had them watch it there so that they’re actually exposed to that. Another candle, your on instead of just sending them back to your website where they just came from.

[00:21:51.57] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Does that count is two or that was two places to do. The same action

[00:21:57.36] spk_3:
that was to different actions that we contain. Customizing a web page is gonna take about an hour problem.

[00:22:00.94] spk_2:
Okay, um, you want to another one?

[00:23:50.84] spk_3:
Sure. So speaking of calls to action, another one that we want to talk about was effective Calls to action. And there’s been lots of research on this from a lot of different companies. One very famous study is actually from head pub spot. Um, that showed ah, fairly drastic increase in conversions on click throughs. Win the links that in the buttons that were used with the cholera action included more than something like read more or, um, or down or Ah uh, was it click here. That’s the other one. Whenever we have a link on a Web page that says Click here or a button that just says Submit, that’s the other one that could be bothersome. So those are basic called actions and Hub. Spot says that smart to call the actions that are very specific description action oriented can actually increase the conversions by around 42% of the click throughs. This these men not conversions pictures by 42% to those links. So instead of read Mawr, maybe, the link says, register for 52 tweaks. Webinar. It’s descriptive. It’s clear it’s gonna be more action oriented saying, Register, do this. You’re telling them exactly what they want them to do. And it’s also going to be better for search engines because it tells search engines what’s behind that link. It also is better for screen readers because screen readers will read out a link that says, Read more and then they don’t know what MAWR it would divorce about, uh or just says submit, and they don’t know which form are no Web page there actually submitted. So we can be a bit more specific with our buttons instead of submit by saying these, like, register, read more, sign up post to Facebook. So instead of just share post specifically to each channel on a button download, even download the resource.

[00:24:14.27] spk_2:
Okay, Okay. That’s a good one, because there’s But the buttons are so ubiquitous. Um, have to quibble with you about called toe actions. I would I would have said calls to action. Like attorneys general. Yeah, Generals. So I don’t You might want Yes. Just ah, tweak. 53 tweaks in 52 weeks. Um, how many? Go ahead, please.

[00:25:15.24] spk_4:
Sure. So two more for me and these. I will. I will take it out of developer land. Um, and and these These are actually both really quick and easy. These could be done in far less than an hour. So one of them is placing a call to action In your footer, people look at the footer that’s been shown through through heat mapping tools where they met over people. I goes where their mouth is go. So political action and that Twitter, if you can. And if you can embed a form directly getting more and more popular to have a tiny subscribe form in your in your footer that’s just birth last and email stupor. Simple one and then another super simple one is auditing your staff page. Is there anyone left on that half page that doesn’t work the organization anymore? Is that leading to their email address that might help you monitor anymore? Is there anyone who has been hired who’s not all that page and needs to be? I think I when I also consult and when I do what I for naught profit law that time. You know what I’m working on the content with, um, that we like, Oh, they’re seven changes the stat page that we just haven’t made in the last six months. So your view is, get a let out, keep it up to date. It doesn’t take a long time.

[00:26:04.04] spk_2:
No, it’s coming to me to while we’re the three of us are talking Dominique that depending on when I air this, you know, we may still all be working from home. Um, I don’t know for sure, but a good chance. These are the kinds of things that could easily fit on a task list. You know, you could not that we’re working from home and have enormous amounts of free time, but we it seems like the kind of things things we know we could pick our top half a dozen or so that we want that we want to take on of the ones were discussing and and you know where to take them off one a week or once, even one every couple weeks while we’re, you know, most likely still working from home

[00:26:13.35] spk_4:
coolly. And also, I think, what kind of your stressful Sometimes it feel, what they are for everyone right now and which they probably will be for a while. But I feel really easy to have, like, one relatively right. This is why people put shower on their to do list so they can

[00:26:28.07] spk_2:
cough

[00:26:28.36] spk_4:
it off. It’s feel good and create momentum to have something easy that you can do and then check off and move forward.

[00:26:45.58] spk_2:
Okay, this is cool. This is a great one to kick off R and D C coverage with easy, easy fixes. Don’t take long. Um, let’s see who who started because we’re gonna We’re gonna wrap with the next round. So who Christie went

[00:26:52.05] spk_4:
you

[00:26:52.51] spk_2:
used. Okay, Chris, Go ahead. Wraps up.

[00:28:38.64] spk_3:
Well, okay, well, let’s wrap it up with one of them. That should probably actually be first that we haven’t already done these yet. And that’s around setting up Google tag manager. So Google tag manager is the modern future proof version of a tag data that you in bed under website and it allows Google analytics and other code to be embedded on your Web site. So we contract outta around how users are accessing our website where they’re coming from and more information. So most of us by now probably have Google Analytics code on our website already. Hopefully, we’ve already updated, but if we haven’t yet Google tag managers, the new version, because who will analytics code would require tweaking of the code. Every time we wanted to add a new event, an event, it could be something like ensuring that we’re able to track the number of PDS that are downloaded on our website or able to track the percentage of a page that somebody schools on our website. These are things that Go analytics doesn’t track by default, although they can be easily configured with Google tag manager. Over time, we can add new event triggers or new code, even things like Facebook pixel, which is used to attract people from Facebook who are on our website taking actions after seeing an ad or post. All of this is much more manageable, manageable and easier to use. With Google tag manager like Google Analytics, it’s free to set up. I need to be found a tag manager dot google dot com And then we have about five more that if you end up coming in watching the recording of our presentation or downloading the slide, you have access to all of these that includes, like spending an hour one week setting up event tracking to ensure that P, D. EFS and other non native forms of content are actually tracked. When access on their website. Well, like I suggested the scroll on a page, we can track the percentage of school on page, which is incredibly important for organizations that are writing a lot of contents. Blawg Post resource is other educational information.

[00:28:51.06] spk_2:
Where can we find the slides.

[00:29:01.24] spk_3:
So the slides and the recording of this presentation are gonna be available at tuttle dot link slash 52 tweaks total dot link slash 52 tweaks. That’s to U T T L E. You’ll get the slides. You can get a recording of our webinar. You can also subscribe to an email if you like. A drip campaign will send you one email week with one of these tweaks and links to instructions on how to start it.

[00:29:31.84] spk_2:
Oh, cool you and dominate for doing this together we are. Yeah, awesome. All right, that’s that’s fabulous. All right. Thank you very much. Both of you, for ah, kicking off our coverage. It’s Chris Total, principal at Tunnel Co and Dominique Hernandez, website administrator for Institute for Policy Studies. Thanks to both of you. Thanks so much.

[00:29:39.84] spk_5:
Things are just

[00:29:41.34] spk_2:
responsive by Cougar Mountain software. This and TC coverage. Thanks so much for being with our 20 and TC coverage,

[00:31:48.01] spk_1:
we need to take a break. Cougar Mountains software. Their accounting product Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial. Check it out on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant non Now, time for Tony’s take to start the racism conversation. That’s our latest special episode. If we’re going to have a legitimate national conversation about race, it’s got to start with each of us. We can’t count on somebody else. I used to have a Boy Scout leader who said There is nobody named somebody else. We certainly can’t count on political leadership. They’ll just get dragged along later on after we start things after we create the momentum, it starts with each of us. For every time you’ve seen Gandhi’s be the change you wish to see in the world posted on Twitter and Facebook, this is a moment for you to walk the walk, not merely read the post. There’s 401 year old systemic racism running throughout our country, including throughout the non profit community, including throughout your non profit. Do you want to identify it and deal with it, or do you want to merely read the post and walk by like the officers who stood by while George Floyd was murdered. Like the officers who walked by. Martin Gino laying bleeding in Buffalo. If you want to be the change, you need to start the conversation. That’s where our special episode helps you do. My guest is Case Suarez, executive director of Equity in the Center. It’s out in podcast. If you prefer video, it’s on my YouTube channel in the racism and white privilege playlist that is tony Stick do Now. Time for Keep Your shiny new website shiny and new.

[00:32:21.94] spk_2:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference. The conference had to be canceled, unfortunately, but we are continuing virtually with our coverage. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. Joining me now are Josh Rheiman and Samantha Wasserman. They are both with great believer. Josh is the founder and president, and Samantha is account manager. Josh Samantha. Welcome.

[00:32:24.44] spk_5:
Thanks. Thank you.

[00:32:44.14] spk_2:
I’m glad we could work this out. It’s good to know that you’re each well and safe both in Brooklyn, New York. I’m glad I’m glad we could get together. Today. Was to We’re, ah, talking about your conference topic, which is Keep your shining new website shiny and new. Um, Josh, why did you start us off? What seems to be the problem? Why did you think that we needed ah, session like this? Put it that way.

[00:32:52.74] spk_5:
Sure. Um, we find that a lot of organizations invest a ton of time and money and energy and their websites, and then they just sort of forget they exist and way like to compare, um, a new website to a new car. A car starts to depreciate a sooner to drive it off the lot. And if the websites not properly attended to the same kidnapping into it. So we like to devise really strategic maintenance plans with organizations we work with to make sure that the value continues to grow over time.

[00:33:22.44] spk_2:
Okay. Maintenance plans. So? Well, we have some time to get into the maintenance planning. Um, you have some tips on keeping it fresh and keeping content fresh. Um, Samantha, Anything you want to add to the beginning of part of this?

[00:33:38.19] spk_6:
I think Josh pretty much summed it up. We know that it could be a lot to manage a website, and we have some ideas for how to keep things interesting and up to date after lunch.

[00:33:47.88] spk_2:
Okay, cool. So why don’t you get us started? What? Uh, what goes into this maintenance plans, Samantha?

[00:34:57.43] spk_6:
Well, we think it’s really important. Teoh identify key people at your organization to keep the website up to date. We know it could be a lot of work for a single staff member to be responsible for all of an organization’s website updates. So we always recommend finding different gatekeepers for different types of content. So whether it’s an HR team being responsible for job postings or development team being responsible for keeping events up to date, it’s really important to try to spread out the responsibility a little bit. Um, it’s also really important toe. Think about keeping content current. So are you updating blawg posts? Are you updating your staff and board list? Users are going to come to your site trying to find up to date information about what’s happening at the organization. So it’s really important wherever possible, that you’re keeping content updated. So even if it’s little things like shifting an image on your home page or promoting a new program just something so that the state feels less stale every time a user visits. That could go a long way in helping things feel dynamic.

[00:35:04.74] spk_2:
What about that blawg, Samantha? It’s it’s that can be daunting. You recommend? I guess, I presume. But I won’t make explicit distributing that around so that different different teams are contributing content to the blocks of the Nobody feels burdened and overwhelmed, but it still stays fresh.

[00:35:50.06] spk_6:
That’s a great question. We hear this a lot, you know, It could be a little bit Don thing to keep, um, up to date with a content production schedule. So there’s a couple of things you can do. You can definitely bring in various collaborators to tell stories from all over the organization or client stories potentially but also think about what you’re going to call that log Block has a certain association in terms of a frequency of posting. Maybe if you come up with a different creative title for your blogged, it’ll help alleviate that pressure a little bit. Andan also tried

[00:36:05.93] spk_2:
What? What? Let me Let me stop you. If you got an example or two of something creative instead of calling it you know, on the main navigation bar tickling our blawg. You got something? Sure, but one

[00:36:07.03] spk_6:
of our Yeah, one of our clients is called Data two X. Um and they came up with a name for their block called the two X tape. Um, so just something a little bit

[00:36:16.73] spk_2:
creatively

[00:36:17.56] spk_6:
on their name. It’s not too different than a blogger, but just, um maybe people don’t associate that with the same weekly update,

[00:36:24.73] spk_2:
wearier more often lower, lower the expectations

[00:36:32.83] spk_6:
exactly. And then also try toe produce content in advance so that if there’s a busier time, you know, maybe it’s grown a virus and you don’t have time for your regularly scheduled programming. You have something in your back pocket that you can go back to something evergreen, um, that you prepared when things are a little bit slower. So it’s always great to kind of load up that content calendar when you have the time.

[00:36:54.44] spk_2:
Yeah, OK. OK, Josh, more, more. You want to add on the this overall maintenance plan?

[00:37:37.72] spk_5:
Sure. I mean, a lot of the things that Samantha is talking about the things that I can talk about also are things that really anybody could do at their organization. You don’t need to be a designer, you don’t need to be a developer. And there are maintenance plans that we construct that are much more Design and development focused, but the plan for this session was to really give people tips and tricks they can put into action immediately. Um, and that could be whether they are, you know, preparing to start a website redesign process that they’re in the midst of one or if they recently completed one. It’s always good to start thinking about ways that they can put these interaction themselves and don’t need to actually hire an outside vendor. And there is a lot of other, um, there a lot of other ideas that we do want to mention. I think a really important thing, though, that you can do either during the processor after is to make the most of your Web vendor. And there’s a lot of things there went. Bender can do it. Prepare your website in a way that makes us effective. This possible. So, for example, every website we do in every website profit every website built nowadays is much more user friendly in terms of being able to make content updates to it. We use WordPress. WordPress is like 40% of the Internet at this point, and we’re presses so nice because we can custom design a cider or whatever Web under your working with custom. Design it, but you can to make edits toe all the pages of your site yourself, whether it’s adding a new team member, duplicating a page for a new campaign or otherwise. So that’s one thing that we always encourage people to make sure their Web vendors are doing to make sure that their site will also be easy to manage. And there are other things. Also, any Web make sure

[00:38:36.74] spk_1:
let’s go through some of these tips and tricks. Yeah, don’t.

[00:38:39.42] spk_5:
All right

[00:38:43.35] spk_2:
way Don’t hold out on us, please. About

[00:40:23.21] spk_5:
yeah, for sure. I mean, there are a lot of other things Any Web vendor should connect your site to. Google Analytics. You should have a tool for search engine optimization and Google ads is something you have the Google ad grant and a really important piece of our process, and everyone thunders process should be to give the organization a training guide that actually shows how to use the back end of your site, whether it’s WordPress or truthful or another content management system. So yes, there should always be a training session where the agency runs the organization through the back end of their site shows not a make updates, every page of the site, and so on and so forth. But the training guide is a nice reminder for someone who may have been in that session but forgot circle pieces but could also be something that’s given to a new staff member when they join so they don’t need to get the whole run down the 30 minute run down for another staff member. They could just take the guide and go off to the races. And on a similar note, we recommend creating something we call a in case of emergency document. And this is just when things go wrong. This is the thing you turn to. So it should have that training guide in it, or a link to the training guide so anybody could make any changes to the site. They need to, for example, with um cove in 19 of somebody in less than they could change the home page to call out their approach to responding to the crisis. They need to be able to log into the site and make that change. So it’s always great to have access to that training guide. But it’s also important that access to your Web vendor. So we always recommend putting contact in both for that web vendor into this incurred in case of emergency document contact didn’t vote for your donation platforms. Other platforms on your side should something break. And suddenly things are not working correctly to make sure that could get fixed as soon as possible. Also, log in credentials. Oh, God.

[00:40:25.97] spk_2:
Um, I was gonna change subject little bit. So did you want us to say finish something about log in credentials?

[00:40:33.08] spk_5:
Yeah, this quickly. I did other things you can put into this document or log in credentials to other platforms on your site. Even contact info for your host. If suddenly your site is down and you have no idea why. Just making sure you have at your disposal information. You need to fix things if they go wrong. Because we always say Internet is is an in perfect place. Google docks goes down. Google doc breaks. So it’s always great to have at your disposal access points to fix things. Hopefully, they don’t go wrong too often when they dio, you should be able to resolve them quickly.

[00:41:14.61] spk_2:
Okay, um, I was gonna take a little digression with you. I’m wondering why you prefer WordPress over Drew Pole or Jumla. Can you, uh you sound like maybe your WordPress evangelist. Do you want toe? Explain why, Why? You prefer WordPress over other ones?

[00:41:20.61] spk_5:
Sure, and I’m sure Samantha want to chime in here. Also, the main thing for us is that we do all of our design completely from scratch. And we do our very best to then build the websites in a way where any client can very easily manage it themselves. And we find the WordPress works the best for that with something like dribble and dribble releases a new version. Um, you often need to make pre wholesale updates to your side if not fully revamp your sight completely. And with WordPress, the updates that are released are are easier to handle. They don’t require widespread changes. So we think that where press works well to make sure the site will still look beautiful. It would be easy to manage and also will work well for years to come given, given its its build set up and also the fact that it is like 35 to 40% of the Internet.

[00:42:06.80] spk_2:
Yeah, Samantha, anything you want to add on, Why WordPress.

[00:42:28.90] spk_6:
It allows us to make our designs as customers. We’d like a CE Josh mentioned. And so it’s kind of the perfect marriage, something that we can give over to our clients once it’s finished and looks amazing. And we do a lot of, um, kind of modular template ties pages. And it allows our clients to mix and match different pieces to meet their needs for new programs or new cook campaigns as they come up.

[00:42:35.30] spk_2:
Okay,

[00:42:35.71] spk_5:
We also find that since WordPress is so popular that when we create a new website for an organization, some of not most of people that we trained to manage that side have dabbled with WordPress or even manage a WordPress site before, So it’s less of a 0 to 60 approach

[00:43:29.42] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know that turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard. So people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re a turn hyphen two dot ceo we’ve got but loads more time for keep your shiny new website shiny and new. Samantha, let’s go back to

[00:43:40.40] spk_2:
you. Uh, one of the things that you mentioned in there Ah, session description is techniques to allocate different types of updates to different team members. Uh, what can you What can you flush out there for us?

[00:44:07.30] spk_6:
Sure. Well, piggybacking off of the WordPress discussion a little bit, um, within WordPress. And I’m sure in other CMS isas well, there are different levels of access that you can give different users, so this could be really useful. Maybe you have an intern who’s helping you with those block post you don’t want to give them. We’ll publish access on the web site. But you want people to drop something that a supervisor then reviews, or you can give that huge. Our team that I mentioned before access to just the job posts on the website but not full access to the website. So there’s a lot of customization that you can do. Um, and we always think it starts to just get a ZX Many people on board with learning how to update the website is possible. Just toe. Like I said, spread out the responsibility. But also, you know, if someone leaves the organization, you don’t want to be left in a place where you can update your website for several months because the one person with all of that knowledge is no longer available.

[00:44:54.49] spk_2:
So it sounds like you really favor a decentralized approach. Teoh Content Management is there Anybody who maybe shouldn’t be shouldn’t make medic, maybe contributes content, but it doesn’t have the authority to change the site themselves. They really like that.

[00:44:59.09] spk_6:
We try to hide as many settings in our WordPress dashboards as possible. That could lead toe larger site wide or code changes. Uh, but within an organization, it really does depend on the organizational structure. But typically there is kind of one person on the communications team who will really, um, lead the whole process and assigned different responsibilities. But we do find that it could be a really overwhelming task, especially when you first launch to get all the content loaded in. And that’s where we see in our website projects. Um, some of the biggest challenges or holdups timeline wise for our clients. So we do always recommend to try to find several different team members who can emphasise.

[00:45:58.15] spk_2:
Okay, what about keeping supporters engaged? You know, people engaged with your site after, ah, full blown launch. I mean, some of that, for a good part of that is keeping content fresh. I realized that something beyond beyond just that the you can talk about

[00:46:03.72] spk_6:
Absolutely. So it’s like you said, it’s not enough just to keep the site updated. It’s also important to make sure that, um, users continue to find their way to your site. So when the site first launches, of course it’s important to you social media posts and email blasts and Google ads to drive traffic to the site. But this continues to be important even after lunch. In this maintenance period sides, you add new content or pages like upcoming events or a capital campaign. It’s really important to use those tools to drive users back to the website again.

[00:46:36.58] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Um, Josh is there. Is there anything that would sort of be a trigger for when we need ah, refresh of our site? Maybe it’s not a full blown new site, but at least a refresh or or maybe something more like. Are you listening to what people are saying? People don’t come out and say your site looks dull or you know, your site looks like 2003. But how do you I didn’t know that it may be time for at least a refresh.

[00:47:06.18] spk_5:
Yeah, there’s really two sides of the equation. The first is the visual side and really just asking people to honestly look at their website and feel like if it reflects who they are from a design perspective doesn’t do justice to their mission and their work. And also is the user experience clear? If you send somebody to the site looking to make a donation, can they easily do it? If you send somebody to the site to fill it a volunteer form can they get there without calling the office to find out how to do it? So sometimes an old website doesn’t just look bad, but actually can waste time for staff members who need to explain how to get there and also just not do justice to the current status of their work. That’s the front end to the site, but also back in perspective, like we’re talking about with site management. It’s so important that anybody without coding skills or technical expertise or average non profit staffer could make changes to the site themselves. And we have found that a lot of sites that were revamping they actually are circa 2003 or something around there. And because of that, they look very outdated. They don’t really have relevant programmatic language compared to what the organization does now, and they’re impossible to update. And if they can update it, they can update only small components. And if they can’t have to rely upon 1/3 party who often has to have him enter into a ticketing system, and they could take a couple of days to make a very small change like let’s, say, changing your phone number.

[00:48:44.81] spk_2:
Yeah, okay, Okay, Um, if you have all these people contributing to your site, how do you make sure that things look the same. Feel the same across across all the different pages that they might the different teams air, contributing to consistency. Basically, I’m asking about How do you How do you make sure your site looks consistent throughout?

[00:48:51.77] spk_6:
I think that goes back. Teoh Josh’s point about leaning on your Web thunder and making sure that you have adequate training or training guide, Um, after the site is built but also on the organization side. It’s really important to have that kind of team leader who oversees all website updates, and you kind of be the consistency police or the brand police, you know, make sure that the tone is the same and that the correct templates being used making kind of run point on everything

[00:49:17.97] spk_2:
okay,

[00:50:01.26] spk_5:
Yeah, and piggyback enough that that training guide will have very specific information or shoot ivory specific information. For example, the featured image on your home page measures this this many pixels by this many pixels. So when you replace it with a new photo, it’s not cropped awkwardly. It’s not too small to fit the space that’s really important. But another thing you can get from your webs under is design assets from your website. And if an organization of somebody on staff whose aware of how to use Adobe in design or photo shop or illustrator you can actually request assets for graphics like let’s say, an infographic that talks about how many people you served in 2019. If the organization has that raw file, they can update it for 2020 and that can replace that file on the website. But even if an organization doesn’t have people that air designed savvy with those programs, they can still request all the assets to have them. You know, j pegs of the infographics another graphics used in their sight snake and then use those and other places like, um, like an email blessed to again create that level of consistency like you were talking about across all these different channels.

[00:50:23.30] spk_2:
Yeah. Okay. We still got a few minutes left, Josh. Anything? What happened? We talked about that. You’d like people to know.

[00:50:34.66] spk_5:
Good question. I I think the

[00:50:35.72] spk_2:
okay

[00:51:10.16] spk_5:
ultra. One thing out there. I think a lot of the a lot of the need for Web maintenance comes from relief. Thinking about who you are as an organization on what are the key actions you’re driving. So donations air almost usually number one for all, or eggs. And the visitors, their science, then you need to think about is event registration important? Our email sign ups important. Our volunteer sign ups important because you want to keep your site current with all the content we’re talking about. But you also want to drive people apart to your site where they can take those actions that are so important to keep your organization running. So kind of assessing the real purpose of your site and those key actions you’re driving could help to dictate what kind of maintenance plan you might need.

[00:51:21.39] spk_2:
Okay, How about you, Samantha? Something you’d like to add that we haven’t talked about yet or go more detail or

[00:51:32.86] spk_6:
thanks, Josh pretty much covered it. Um, I think it’s really important toe. Make sure that Yeah, um, realizing that users are going to your website as probably the first place they look for updates about your organization. And so all of the tips that we’ve outlined are really important just to make sure that information is up to do and there’s nothing that screams outdated, like an event being highlighted on the home page that past two months ago. So just being really cognizant of, um, what contents being featured and how often you’re checking back on your site?

[00:52:05.95] spk_5:
Okay, I’ll throw one more thing out there, tony, which is oftentimes it’s very hard for an organization to get funding allocated to a website redesign process because that’s money that could be going elsewhere. Money date on fighting for for years. Um, but what we recommend organizations do is not just fight for the money to cover that website redesign, but also fight for money that could handle maintenance and maintenance in terms of how it’s structured is really a case to case basis you could talk about with your Web vendor, but you’ll wanna have additional funds lying around and ready for use to make sure that your Web vendor can continue to work with you. Because all the things that we’re talking about you can do yourself. There are certain things, like if you want to make a brand new page from scratch or create new graphics or in bed a new piece of functionality, it’s important to have hopefully some budget remaining after the initial Web redesign budget was depleted. To get the full picture and to keep your site growing from, ah, more of a design and development perspective.

[00:53:07.72] spk_2:
Okay. All right, we’re gonna wrap it up there. All right? That’s Josh Rheiman, founder and president of Great Believer and Samantha Wasserman, account manager, A great believer, and both in Brooklyn, New York, where the company is Thanks so much. Thanks for sharing. Just like dozens of tips. Thank you very much.

[00:53:17.05] spk_5:
Thanks, tony.

[00:53:27.01] spk_2:
And all right, stay safe and thank you for being with tony-martignetti. Non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us

[00:54:23.36] spk_1:
next week. Women of color in Fundraising and Philanthropy A new online community will have the founder back, Yolanda Johnson, plus more interviews from 20 NTC. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for the free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative

[00:55:02.15] spk_0:
producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz Managed Stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this Music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for April 12, 2019: Be Accessible & Go Bilingual

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Hey. Oh, hi there. Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of Macro Stone Mia if I had to say that you missed today’s show Be accessible. Inclusive website design that builds in accessibility helps everyone, not only those with disabilities, and it helps you with the CEO. Our panel uses the example of the MacArthur Foundation site Rebuild their James Kinzer from the MacArthur Foundation and Cindy Roland with Web aim Go bilingual Oliver Delgado helps you navigate the bilingual balance in print, social and on your site as we discuss opportunities and challenges. He’s from Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles, on Tony’s Take two Grieving in your plant e-giving. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service, fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner c. P. A’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com But tell US Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine here is be accessible from the nineteen ntcdinosaur twenty nineteen non-profit Technology conference. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen NTC. You know what that is tonight? Twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Way are in the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and this interview, Like all of ours at nineteen NTC is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact With Me are James Kinzer is senior associate for digital communications at the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and Cindy Roland. She’s director of Web AIM at Utah State University. James Cindy. Welcome. Welcome to non-profit radio. With pleasure. Thank you, Cindy. What is Web aim? So Webb started in nineteen ninety nine. Two. Actually, we started with federal funding to assist folks in higher education with Web accessibility. We’ve since grown were now working in literally every sector on helping Web developers, Web designers and content creators will make their content accessible for individuals with disabilities. OK, OK, and James, I I hope I can get this right. That MacArthur Foundation seeks a more just verdant and peaceful world was full world. Thank you I’m a big NPR listener. What do you do specifically at senior associate with digital communication? What does that mean? That the foundation. Right. So my primary role is to manage content on the Web site and Tio manage over email communications, But it also involves a lot of project management. And so one of the largest projects that I managed recently is the complete redesign of our website. Look at this wonderful transition. Yeah, to redesign of the website to include accessibility. Exactly. Okay. Okay. And you, uh, you built in some grantee grantee encouragement there, too. With guides. Is that right? We’re in the process of developing developing that with the wedding team. Currently? Yeah, we’LL get to that. Okay, good. If I forget, remind me. Okay, Because the fact that you’re trickling it down it didn’t It doesn’t stop with the foundation, But you’re encouraging your grantees to do the same. Or at least a attempt. Yeah, exactly. Conscious are our learning. You’re so great and valuable. We recognized that it would be so stingy for just for us to keep that to ourselves. We wanted to make sure we were sharing that with the greater population And, of course, it doesn’t just stop with MacArthur grantees this booklet. Once it’s done, it ,’LL be available. Really, Teo. Anyone in, well, anyone? But certainly we envision that it’s going to be of use to you lots and lots non-profits non-profits. Cindy. Why is accessible design important form or with the wider population than those who need accessible sites? Right? Well, you know, and you you are hitting on a really important piece, which is, of course, everyone’s going to agree that we make content accessible to everyone, including those with disabilities, because that’s just the right thing to do. You know, anyone who has a moral core isn’t going to purposely exclude a segment of the population. But there are lots of reasons that you would develop accessibly just for typical users on DH. I won’t even go into as we all age. We all acquire disabilities, but we all typically in our lifetime have some accidental disabilities. Whether it is, I break my arm. I dropped my mouse and it busts into hundred pieces. I have, you know, some kind of ah temporary vision issue that needs, you know, Cem correction and takes a little bit time so accessible design ends up by being hopeful for everyone. It’s helpful on mobile devices. It’s helpful in virtually, you know, every platform. So those folks that are developing accessibly are not only helping those with disabilities, but they’re helping everyone. Okay, is there also an sio advantage? If we have to make it, bring it down to such a basic level, right? Which I admit. But I’m the one asking questions. You know, they’re they’re they’re also there is all right, So you know there’s there. We all know that it’s, you know, secret sauce in the background there as to how the the CEO’s air really pulled together. But those sites that are accessible end up by being, you know well, it makes sense because you’re able to call through all of the text information, and it’s able Teo, get at things that you might be presenting visually. So let’s say you have an image or you have a chart that you’re providing to visual users. If you have alternative text or you have some description, the search engines air ableto look at that text and be able to index that properly so it does end up by helping fun folks find your content. Okay. At the MacArthur Foundation, James, what raised the consciousness that in your redesign you needed to consider accessibility? Yeah, So we had a CZ. Part of our regular development process is worked with a developer to do just kind of an ad hoc scan on accessibility for the website. And then about five years ago, with new leadership of the foundation, there was a real turning point in our approach to grantmaking and s. So the the number of grantmaking areas was reduced down to a more focused number and there was a greater sense of urgency brought to the work. And it was at that time we were also looking at, um, asking ourselves the question Are we really living are our tagline Are we living this commitment to be in a I’m a more just, verdant and peaceful world? Were we truly being just if we were not giving access to everybody to the information on our website? It’s a very introspective discussion that that someone raised Yeah, that, uh, you know, that takes a lot of courage to consider that we may not be living up to our our own tagline, right? Right. So essentially, once that question was answered, way had our marching orders from from leadership, and it was something that I was already aware of and passionate about. And so it just kind of came together really beautifully. Acquaint us with the with the start of the process. How does the accessibility fit into an overall redesigned right? So for us, we actually worked with the Web AIM team to do a scan of our sight. I think that we gave them maybe twenty, twenty to twenty five pages to review. And from that review they created a report. And that report identified all of the areas that were not in compliance with accessibility and essentially ranks them in priority order. And so made it really easy for us to go to the designers and say, Hey, we’ve got all of these issues, These air, the scaled need for each one of them. Let’s incorporate that into the new pages as we design them. Cindy A. Z do that kind of ah evaluation. Where are the standards? But how do we know where they are? Is our cottage is codified somewhere? It absolutely is. So the the World Wide Web consortium that W three c has Web accessibility initiative w ay, I’m going into alphabet soup. No way. Have jargon jail on radio. Okay, okay. Transgress. I will not. So they created the web content, accessibility guidelines and I’m going to throw another one at you. It’s called Would CAG. Right now they’re at version two point. Oh, So you confined the wood. CAG died. Guidelines, Web content, accessibility, eye lines to point out yet so Google it it’LL provide all the technical standards. Therefore principles perceivable, operable, understandable and robust. Each of those principles has a set of essentially success criteria so that you know that you’re meeting what? That what that is. So let me just throw out example so that all content is perceivable. So let’s say that I don’t have vision. How am I going to perceive that content? Well, I’m probably using a screen reader to read the the What’s behind what it is that we see. So if a developer does not put alternative Tex, there’s no way for me to extract the content of that. Let’s say I’m deaf and you’ve got a video. How am I going to perceive that content well. If you have captions that I’m able to get that content, so just very simple things like that. Now you know somewhere a little more complex. It’s not way used to say that accessibility is simple, but as the Web has developed and matured, things are more complicated. But it’s still something that can be achieved when you agree. James. Definitely it’s time for a break. Pursuant. The Art of First Impressions. How to combine Strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back that is, there a book on donor acquisition. They want you to read it. Check it out. Um, helps you make a smashing first impression with donors. You will find that the listener landing page tony dot m a slash Pursuant capital P for please. You know that Let’s do the live. Listen, love. Let’s I bumped it up. It’s accelerate because my heart’s bursting with love for the live listeners. So it’s going out now. Live love to you. If you are with us, the love goes out. Like I said, it’s Sze being redundant, right? Okay, enough said live love tto listeners. We’re listening now and to those listening by podcast pleasantries to you, the vast majority of our audience so glad that you were with us whatever time. Whatever device, however, non-profit radio fits into your schedule binge or week after week pleasantries to you. Let’s continue with James Kinzer and Cindy Roland. How do we work our way into it? So that the MacArthur Foundation they asked you to evaluate twenty five pages or so and you applied the standards right? Is that something that buy-in organise that small and midsize shop could do on their own? Absolute thing, finding guidelines or the guidelines a kind of technical and the guidelines air absolutely technical. So if you’re not a technical person, you you may go read them, and your eyeballs may spend around head. However, there are lots of places that you can go, I think even just starting understanding. There are lots of introductions to have accessibility. Web dot org’s certainly has one of those. There are others as well on DH. There are tools that are available, of course. Webb has one that’s it’s free for folks to use and other people have to. So I’m not trying to just, you know, talk R R R But if someone were to go to wave and that’s w A v e wave dot web dot org’s, they’d be able to put in a whirl and wave will check for them where they are with the standards now about Yeah, that’s all it takes just Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah So here’s the rub. Only about twenty five or thirty percent of the errors Khun B. Programmatically detected by any look any tool, not just ours. Any of them the rest of them need. They require a human determination of whether or not it meets the guidelines so you could get started. Wave dot web dot or dot org’s absolutely and you know, thie. Other thing that I’m goingto mention about wave is as you look at the errors it and we describe, you know what the what The area is, why it’s important, how you can fix it. And there’s even links to little tutorials that go further in depth about that whole thing. So, to be honest, Wave is used an awful lot by developers and designers as a tool to learn about what it is that they need to be doing Okay, James, what are what are some lessons that some takeaway is that you you can share from the from this redesign? Yeah. I think a really great example of, uh, before and after a people meaning accessibility was the grant search page on our website. When we originally we’re looking at it, it was just the results were all just in a long list, and they were really wide columns of a text. So each line was really long. And as we were going through the redesign process that we recognize that this wasn’t optimized for people with cognitive disabilities. And so what we did is we shorted shortened each entry. What? I’m sorry. What’s the What’s the deficit that that they have that prevents them from reading are seeing longlines? Yeah. What is that? Specifically very questions. So a person with cognitive disabilities, the longer the line of text, the greater the chance. By the time they get to the end of that sentence, they will have forgotten what they read at the beginning. And so, by shortening the line lines, what that means is that they can increase. Is there there retention? Okay. And I will say also, for many folks that are struggling with literacy issues, that notion of them visually wrapping back around if it’s really long, then there they have to visually scan back to the leg left next to the next line. And that can become visually a difficult task, even though it’s not a visual problem problem. But it’s a visual processing problem. OK, alright, So thats the benefit in the redesign was that we took that knowledge. We sat down with the designers, came up with the new layout and moved things into more of a grid pattern. And so what it meant is that the lion lengths were shorter. But then also for typically sighted people, it meant that they could actually see more information on the page but scrolling wherever they’re scroll across. Exactly. So So this is a really great example of how we were addressing accessibility for for one audience. But then it it still had a really significant benefit for everyone else. Yeah, excellent. OK, Tio Cindy’s point earlier about the benefit for all rank. I love that. What else? You got? Another take away. What else have you learned from this whole thing? How long did this take, Let’s say, from the time that you asked Web aim to do the evaluation of twenty five pages, Tio, you felt like okay. I mean, website is never completed. I realize that, but you know, that button eyes a project manager, But until the point where you sat back and said, OK, we’ve pretty much where where I wanted to be back then, right? How long was that time? It was a three year process. Okay, Now MacArthur’s gotta have an enormous mean tens of thousands of pages. I cite you. Remember the number? I think there are a hundred. Two hundred thousand. Okay, but it’s a long front. Yeah, yeah. Okay, but smaller sites not going. I’m not going to be a daunting right. Okay, so another. Please. Another another. I’m trying to think of one of the other pages that we were working on. So one of the other, the significant takeaways is that start wherever you can like before. Five years ago, I really knew very little about accessibility, and I reached out. I took a workshop and overtime working with the designers. I learned a lot more about it. So I think using what resources are available to you. TTO learn is super important. I think it graded another example or take away from the site. Is that because something is a, uh, wait, Just have to make sure that everything that we’re seeing on the side of a CZ typically sighted people is truly consumable buy-in e other person that has a disability. And so when I’m formatting content now, I’m thinking about that. I’m making sure that, uh, was that descriptions that I put in for the photos. Are they going to be clear? Are they in the right format? Uh, it’s it’s, uh, it’s It’s not just a developer issue. It’s a content management meant issue. So I take a lot of responsibility for making sure that, as I’m formatting, that content that that I am formatting with accessibility of mind. And I’d love to just add another. Although I don’t know that this is MacArthur’s experience and you could you could certainly mentioned it is, But I think it’s so critical for folks to understand that web accessibility is not a one and done that. It has to be baked in. You know, you’d mention that you’re never really done with the website. Well, to the extent that accessibility is then part of baked into that process by by virtue of that, you’re never done with accessibility either. One of the things that we see over and over and over again, people will come to us. We’LL work with them. The folks that are on that team get it, they make those changes. But then those folks leave. They go someplace else. And the accessibility problems creep back in because, organizationally, they haven’t shifted the culture. They haven’t created a workflow that is going to sustain accessibility, even at the level of how their purchasing, you know, products, you know, widgets, naps and all that. Are they even asking the question if we buy X and embedded in our site? Is that accessible? How do we, uh, create a cultural change? Yeah, it’s t institutionally, the conscious of accessibility. So that has turned over occurs. It’s not lost weight. What do we do? Well, I think first and foremost you gotta start with a commitment from the top. I mean, if you don’t have those you know, top executives saying in our shop this is something we value and This is something we’re going to monitor every year, every two years, every whatever. We’re going to have a regular way that we look at this and it’s going to be systematic if you don’t do other things that will help sustain it. So, for example, in HR, why would it be that for technical people you wouldn’t routinely put into your job descriptions when you’re hiring that knowledge and skills of Web accessibility is, if not required, at least preferred, because that sends a message out to the people that want to have these jobs. Oh, well, apparently, this is a skill set that I need to acquire. How about purchasing? You know, if if you’re if you’re you’re webber, your other digital materials do rely a lot on the work of others. Let’s say it’s templates. Let’s say it, you know, whatever it happens to be, maybe it’s Ah, um uh, you know Cem donor-centric where you’re using, you know, how is it that you are checking to see the accessibility of the easy way to start is to ask the vendor to make a declaration of how it is that they conform to the current standards of accessibility. There is a thing called and sorry. Here we go again, as long as you define okay, as long as you tell the veep at the voluntary product accessibility template or in version two point Oh, now so don’t accept anyone that sends you a one point no document, but it’s very common to act in your in your requests and your solicitations say that you’re going to require that what you procure, what you purchase or acquire conforms toe tag, too double double and that the vendor either submit a V pat or some other kind of declaration. Or sometimes, folks, we’re just going right to give us a third party. A report of where where you stand with accessibility. Now, all is not lost if the vendor has some problems. It’s not that you don’t by the product you want, but you have a negotiation about what’s your roadmap for accessibility. If if we put money down, how long will it be in your development process before weakening exact that art that the stuff we’re hosting is going to be accessible, You know, it’s three three months of its three years, you know that may give you pause. Okay, okay. Very good. Uh, I’m gonna go back and underscore something that that Cindy mentioned earlier and that that’s leadership. Energy is welcome. So? So I just feel like it’s important to underscore that that that getting buy-in from leadership makes this process infinitely more simple, like it would be with anything and any significant initiative. Right? And And I think the turning point for the MacArthur Foundation was truly that that moment where we were looking at our tagline like I mentioned before. Ah, and for for people who are organizations that are concerned about how do I get buy-in? I think that that’s the easiest way at a mission driven organization is to look at that tack line and say, How does this pair with accessibility? And how can we, uh, make that argument? What? What case would you bring to your CEO? When you are, your consciousness is raised. Uh, how do you How do you raise? But he raised the issue up above. Yeah, I think that, uh, once I were educated Ah, a little bit more on it. I would go to leadership and and say, Look, this is this is kind of like Rex of our presentation later today is you know, it’s not just addressing accessibility for people with disabilities. It’s truly it’s truly improving for everyone, for everyone, right? And it’s our It’s embodied in our mission way just haven’t been conscious, right of of how our mission intersects with accessibility. Right? So it’s just making those two points connect. Okay. Okay, um, Cindy’s Web team did a evaluation of one hundred one hundred sites. Yeah, we were just We were just doing a quick little scan of Of where the non-profit world is in terms of accessibility. How did you pick one hundred? What we did is we went to a website top non-profits, and they had a lovely little list of the top one hundred non-profits. And of course, you know what does top mean, right? You know, But we took their list is probably names that we would roll recognize for one reason or another by budget or employees. Eyes are exactly yeah, annual fund-raising. Whatever. Okay. And and for me, the purpose was just to just to get a sense of what’s happening. So we just landed on the home page of each of those now the rationale is that, you know, as we well know, home pages get the most attention home pages get the most. Is that still true? Now, a lot of times I’ve had guests say that not to be overly focused on your home page because a lot of people coming in directly looking for the content that’s buried in your side, your sight because of because of a link that they follow, right? So for those people that have a direct link, you’re absolutely right. But if somebody doesn’t know the organisation, it doesn’t know the content that they want. How are they going to get in? They’re going to get in through your friends. They’re explored. So they’ve heard your name and they want to, right? Exactly. Exactly. So let’s say I’m a, you know, a family. And I’m feeling particularly philanthropic. I’m going to be I’m gonna be rooting around here looking at you know, where might I want to, you know, engage in sin, flandez. Okay, so we’re gonna learn about. So we went in and we we ran the wave on one hundred pages and do so when you’re when you’re back in Utah State. Utah State University. Yeah, this. So do you all do away and there are there six of you? I made it that way. I wish we didn’t run the way. Wave Runner. Okay. Yeah, You don’t You’re not doing that at heart. And I will take it on. Okay. Okay. Well, we’ll do that. Bring that back back east from here. It’s back. He’s okay. Based in New York. So it’s strange to say he’s for Utah. Okay. Wey came at us dahna aggression. We came out up from his acronym, But you’re right. We should be thinking about into a wave. Think maybe every Friday. That’s good. Alright, Anything. So we were running it through the way and way were only looking at those items that were again programmatically detectable. So how can the machine that hogan this after her to say that? Only thirty percent you said? Oh, yeah. Isn’t twenty five or thirty men are right in that vision. Indestructible Because we knew he didn’t have the time to do, you know, an in depth, blah, blah, blah. So again, we’re not looking at accessibility. What we’re looking at are errors, problems. That’s thes air. This is the low hanging fruit. This is the stuff that if you’re considering accessibility, you’re probably going to be nailing these things, right? Okay, because the things that are harder, those things that require human interaction and detective in deduction sadly, of the hundred, there were only three pages that didn’t have programmatically detectable arika cloudgood. So ninety seven percent of that sample and again, we don’t know to what extent that generalizes to the rest of the pages blah, blah, blah. But these are big organizations. These are, however measured these are And and I mean my heart just sunk because I thought, if there is ever if there’s ever a sector of our society that should be aware of this and working towards this, this should be the non-profit world. These air, the folks that are you know, the the standard carriers for lots of ethical causes and equity and rights of people with disabilities is certainly one of one of those. So I’m very sad to report that the data are that bad and we we are going to follow up, and we may end up by doing a much larger look at non-profits, not just home pages, but you know, scanning. You know, main domains and looking at thousands of pages, you probably need some funding for that. Well, you know, it’s always it’s always very helpful. If there’s anyone out there that would like to sponsor a deep look into this, give me a holler, OK? Our audiences, non-profits. Yeah, I’m not I’m not sure, but, uh, okay. Noble noble cause and yeah, disappointing. But I will say the stuff that work, the stuff that we did, you know, that was just I found internally little pot of money. We just did stuff We do stuff like that out of, you know, anyway, because it’s just part of it’s part of our mission to make sure that we’re getting information out about the state of accessibility. Does Webb aimed Is there a way I am? Stand for something? Well, it it really does. It’s the The initial project back in nineteen ninety nine was keeping Web accessibility in mind. So we have the web. Aye, aye. Accessibility in mind. Okay. And that’s the one thing we want. We want folks to keep a web accessibility in mind as they’re considering their content as they’re developing design frameworks. is They’re thinking about their coding on all levels. So this is all well, initially, consciousness raising way. Need to be aware, APS and then we can go toe wave dot web, a web dot organ, and we can begin their right. James, we got, like, thirty seconds, so I’m gonna give you the the wrap up. What would you like to leave people with? Yeah. Ah, a few things. I think the first one is that that accessibility applies to everybody and, uh, take the opportunity to learn about it. To do some research, to take a workshop, started any level on and then you can begin addressing it in many different ways. There there are small steps, medium steps, deep involved, development steps. So, really, it’s it’s it’s completely pardon of fun accessible to everybody. He is James Kinzer, senior associate senior associate, the digital Communications at the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation on DH. She is Cindy Rolling, director of Web aim at Utah State University. James, Wendy, Thanks so much. Thank you, Cindy. I’m sorry, but, uh, you’re listening to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Like all our interviews here. This one is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’ve got a free webinar coming up. It’s on April sixteenth. Tips and tricks for your nine ninety. The best part of this is using your nine ninety as a marketing tool to do some PR for you in various sections, including Narrative, but they’re going to talk about other uses for your nine ninety. It regarded regarding PR and promo. Okay, because it’s so widely read, it’s so widely available. Ah, if you can’t watch the live, you can watch the archive of their webinar weather cps dot com Click seminars, then Goto April. Now, time for Tony. Take two grieving part of your plan to giving program. As I was grieving, my well still am. My father in law’s death came very sudden in Ah, late March, and, um, it occurred to me that grieving is part of your plan e-giving program. And that happens when relatives who contact you because a donor to your organization has died and so you can’t expect those relatives to be at their best. UM, they’re going to be a little gonna be on edge. You know it’s there, not goingto be contacting you the day after the death, or even probably within a week. But when they do, they’re still grieving and you know it’s it’s likely to be a spouse or a child that’s the most common s. So it’s it’s someone close. And when it happens, you wantto handle them appropriately and keep things simple for them have a simple process to make them jump through hoops. I’ve got a bunch of ideas on managing and working with the grieving relatives when you do hear from them in my video, and that is at twenty martignetti dot com. Now let’s go to Oliver Delgado, also from the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference, and this is go bi lingual. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. That’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the Convention Center, Portland, Oregon, and this interview, like all our nineteen NTC interviews, is sponsored by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me now is Oliver Delgado. He is director of marketing and communications at Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles. Oliver, Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. My pleasure. It’s great to be here in Portland’s Great to be here with you. I agree with you and, well, not that it’s great to be here with me, but I agree that it is fun to be important. Important is a wonderful city. It’s my first time here, so I’m taking it all and so much to see. And really, in the short amount of time I see a lot of drink through, it’s started Edible Food and Drink City. I started last night. I got very lucky. There’s an amazing restaurant in my hotel, and food was fantastic. Where was the food? It’s Ah, guess. Contemporary Mexican American fusion. Okay, Yeah. Super cool Down in the Pearl District, I went Tio when I first got here first night I went Teo, I’ve always heard that Israeli food is very good. I want a place called shoot Shalom Y’All y’all like y’All I love come over. Yeah, yeah, that’s not a Finnish border. Zoho are Israeli word. It’s your long Y’All Yeah, was X there have to one in the north east, their one southeast and southwest. I think it’s funny you mention that actually just saw this really cool report on Israeli food and considering that’s a fairly recent kind of evolution and food, considering the history behind the country and how it’s really a fusion of so many different regions. And so they’re taking so many different steps to just create an identity for it. Which means the food is just amazing. So I’d love to baby check it out if you recommend it. Although I do. I had a roasted eggplant, which was outstanding. Their home is their to bully both very oath. Oh, a light, a light and tasty falafel. Very nice. Dunaj dahna like a dark brown. Not a golden battle darker brown. That was incredible. You had me at recommend Shalom. Y’All All right, but we’re here to talk about sabelo Espanol. That’s right. Expand your reach and impact by going bilingual. Why should we? What if we’re not serving a non-profit? We’re not serving. Ah ah, Spanish community, Spanish speaking or Mexican speaking community. Why should we, uh, should we abila spaniel sure this is really specific to Los Angeles, and I think for us going bilingual has to do a lot with sustainability on and being able to reach more people in an organic way, and it’s not limited. I think Spanish for us is the case study. It’s the example. But I think if you’re living in a major metropolitan city or not, we see that there’s migration patterns across the country from all parts of the world. So it may not be Spanish. It could be Russian. It could be Chinese. It could be Hindi. It could be Farsi. There always be theirs. There’s probably a secondary language being spoken in certain communities and cities across the country. So when you look at those demographics and you look at those shifts and statistics, how do you tap into those alternative language and communities essentially with your organization? If the impact or the goal is to be sustainable, to be far reaching toe have longevity. It’s about reinvention. It’s about adapting. It’s about finding different ways to use different tools to reach people. So be aware of the demographics in in the area that you are serving absolutely and be responsive? Absolutely. And I think just speaking factually, the US eventually will be a minority majority country. So it’s twenty, twenty, twenty five, I believe so. I believe by twenty twenty five. So you know, we’re at twenty nineteen, and it gives you a really good idea, especially a lot of organizations who are toying with the idea of employing a secondary language or even a third of how to start doing it connecting with communities. And that’s what I’LL be talking about today is the multi layered approach from really identifying a language to identify your audience. Is your media lists your brochures or collateral? The programming, the PR, the communications of community relations, your digital presence? Everything has to be intertwined so that your message, or rather, your intent, has has legs. How do we make this case to leadership before we get there? Buy-in. Before we can go ahead, it’s so we can start spending money. Sure, it’s looking at your, especially from a fund-raising point of view. Are you maximizing what you’re able to raise when you have an event when you have a gala? If you have, if its an electronic of it? A letter appeal for end of your donations or a seasonal campaign. Uh, whatever our whichever mechanisms you used to fund-raising Are you maximizing its potential? Right? And I think that’s the lens that we look at. Eleven l. A. It’s not only the fund-raising but the friendraising, because our impact is creating, and our intent is creating stronger, more connected communities through the yards, and it’s kind of a dual approach. We also need to be ever support the yards fiscally for us to be able to get our mission. So it’s a little more about what Levitt Pavilion does. Sure, absolutely. Levitt Pavilion Los Angeles is It’s part of a national Levitt network, and Levin Foundation does incredible work in twenty six cities across the country, with the mission of creating stronger, more connected communities through the arts and specifically free live music. So throughout the country, you’LL see cities and towns come alive every single summer, respectively, between twenty five and fifty concerts. Every Levitt pavilion that’s designated as a permanent pavilion has the task. And really, though these air structures, these air structures, Yeah, absolutely. And so we’re all tasked with creating an offering fifty free concerts every single summer, and we do so by away of a public private partnership where we partner with the city departments in the respective city that were in what the foundation helps provide some seed money. But also the most important piece is getting the community buy-in because at the end of the day, if you don’t have the commuters support for something that is intended to serve them, what’s the point? So what’s incredible about Levin Potvin Los Angeles, is that it came at such an incredible time in MacArthur Park, which is a historic park in Los Angeles. Jimmy Webb dahna Summer, Right? So they were talking about this epic park that was once the premiere vacation oasis. The Shabelle is a of Los Angeles, and over the years, over the course of one hundred years of transition from being an incredibly wealthy neighborhood to one that then became a creative enclave, really boho chic, think Lower East Side Manhattan in the seventies and eighties and then continues in transition as resource is stopped coming to the neighborhood, especially city services. You know the migration patterns, especially as the civil wars in Central America really left, warn Torrente lands and people seeking refuge, and we saw an influx of Central American refugees into this specific neighborhood. But it happened so quickly that the density literally just expanded within maybe a few years, to the point where the neighborhood, because it was such a wealthy enclave, the sing the one single family homes had to be slapped together and carved into multiple family. When and you can imagine what that looks like, right, it’s, you know. And then we saw this very specific example. MacArthur Park went from the shop Elyse Tomb or oven, Ellis Island. And it’s incredible to know that Levitt Pavilion now and where we are. We are going into a thirteenth season we launch in two thousand seven in MacArthur Park. We have reached about five hundred thousand people coming through this place. So it’s we’re moving the needle, and it’s about exploring different ways to do so. Let’s talk about some of the challenges of doing bilingualism or trilingual is you said. You know, it could be depending on your demographics. What are some of the obstacles we’re gonna have to overcome? Sure, I think some of the obstacles, I think, just from a logistical point of view, it’s the long term investment is making sure that shouldn’t organization, especially at non-profit, commit to a plan of incorporating a second language into their marketing. And as part of their brand identity is identifying, Do they want to build an in house team to manage this every day and what that looks like? Or do you outsource it? And is it more of a campaign kind of a seasonal initiative? But the issues you run into that is continuity. When you have different hands kind of touching, OH, are influencing or molding the ingredients, you may get different results. What are some of these ingredients were talking about? You don’t meddle with different communications channels. So all the different, especially the communication channels, because everything has to be interlinked from your E blast from your website to your social tio, literally your printed materials, your hyre rabbis, radio, TV billboard. Everything has to be a cohesive marketing unit, even down to the programme in the community relations, right the way we conduct those meetings and identify and select and create a lineup, it’s creating a path for all of that to be connected through a single lens, you got to take a break. Tell us it’s the long stream of passive revenue because you get fifty percent of the fee. When cos you refer process their credit and debit card transactions through Tello’s, check out the video, then refer companies to the video if they’re still interested. They found the video interesting, then asked if they would consider making the switch and then you contact, Tell us and put the two of them together. It’s all in the video at the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us for that long stream of passive revenue. Now back to Oliver Delgado. There’s gotta be more to this. I’m sure they’re then then just the language. You have to. You have to understand the culture of the the needs, the frustrations of the people in the community that you’re now trying to reach out to. It’s more than just speaking their language. Correct. You need to understand what what they’re about. Absolutely, and that is really That was the foundation of what Levitt Pavilion sought to do, and that’s create organic ties in the community. And that’s the first already start faith communities really everywhere, anywhere where the doors opened. So for us it was because of MacArthur Park, in the way that it’s structured it, surrounded by schools, churches, neighborhood organizations and businesses. It’s a very dense neighborhood. You were talking about eighty two hundred thousand people in about six square miles, right? So we’re talking about almost like the density of Manhattan, right? So I think that made it easy for us and being able to reach more people quickly. But also, it means that we have three more strategic and how you developed that plan, right? So the schools, the faith based organizations, you touch them all. You have to be able to be open, open, open toe, learning open to learning. And really, you know, the cultural nuances Just because, you know, blind ex culture is so vibrantly divers in itself, you know, from Mexico to Central America, Teo, even South America, the language changes so much that you have to be adaptable and be mindful that, you know, different words mean different things in different countries. So employing you know, the formality informal, the presentation. But ultimately is the trust it going in with an open heart and open arms so that people understand that it’s a dialogue not so much a speech critical. Otherwise, you’re not gonna build trust. Correct. You’LL have a meeting and xero and nothing correct, I think from it. So for Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles one of our fundamental tools really is our Community Advisory Council. And this is a coalition comprise of principles residents, business owners, different organization and community leaders that acted one as our sound board for potential sponsors, for just bouncing ideas on artist to come to the stage, but also to get their eyes and ears on the ground learn from them directly. What’s happening in the neighborhood that we should be mindful of should be reflective love. So you can invite community leaders in the community you’re trying to approach to an advisory committee and say, You know, this is not a not a pro forma counsel. We really want your want your input. We want your advice. That’s right. We yes, we do want your connections also correct. We need them to reach the community that you’re now serving correct, and then for us, it’s about creating the space. And so everyone has a seat at the table. Yeah. Okay. You, uh, you planning talking something about developing your marketing lists? That’s right. Best practices for developing marketing list? Sure, Absolutely. So for eleven Pavilion, Los Angeles, again, we develop our English language baseless, which means that everyone on that list has opted in when they signed on up for a concert from ours weepie to get reminders of certain shows they had option of being about to receive information in English or in Spanish. So once we get that information, they’re actually collated in that way. So the English sign ups go to one lesson in Spanish sign ups go to another, and then we target those specific list with specific language newsletters. And so that way nothing is cut out. Nothing is impacting away where you’re lessening the content or, you know, undercutting it you’re presenting. If it’s for the weekend of concerts, is providing a glimpse of what’s to come. But also who are the community partners who are the sponsors who are the different? What are the different pieces? Making that specific show so unique? So for us is being able to deliver that message in a timely way, but also easy to follow. Easy to read, as the kids say, making a very chill right, making it approachable. I’m just easy to digest. OK, anything else but best practice Wai’s best practices. I mean, I have a whole list. It just depends on how you sometime. Absolutely so. If we were to look at labbate putting Los Angeles we, the first thing we had to do is identify our audiences. And so we know that we had the task of incorporating and reaching the local community of West Lake. But then, looking at what makes our work possible. And that’s then we have our sponsors, our community partners, thie elected officials, kind of the periphery supporting cast that plays a crucial role. So identifying those audiences that helps us figure out how we present our information. From there, it was creating, enduring in on. We’re going to present our secondary language in an informal way or the informal Spanish, right? So you, you know, quick Spanish lesson. If you haven’t reverses the form, correct, you have the to form and then you have those dead form, which can be as different as a swimsuit versus a power suit. And that’s how different the communication ring communication can come across. So for us, we’re identifying that informal old home and then identifying the in house team. So that’s myself and a couple of associates where we create every single day opportunities for our bilingual approach to have legs. So through our social writing, different mechanisms to make sure that that’s observed. Um, you can’t you can’t outsource. This is you mentioned earlier like you can outsource it on what kind of what kind of consultant freelance or are you looking for? Well, we don’t because I’m not, you know? Yeah, sure, would one. What would one would be looking for? Absolutely. I think the aforementioned when you figure out your audiences and you figure out what tone you want to take is finding people who specialize in that specific thing in that culture and that culture, because ultimately this person is without you knowing or wanting is your surrogate right in the communities in just written and spoken word. So it’s how do you essentially create this opportunity for someone to learn your voice or create your voice in a way that’s organic to you and is possible for you to continue past their involvement with organization on a consultant basis. So again it’s created for digital presence. For us is massive because that’s the way that we reach more people. So the website we have when you go to our website, you have the ability of hovering and clicking on the English side to get all the information in English and then hovering over to the other side of cooking the Spanish button. Everything goes into Spanish, but the most crucial thing and this goes back to the house human capital. And that’s when you click over to the Spanish. The’s are all handwritten translations were not running it through a filter. It’s not a plug Google translate. Now Google translate these air hand rin translations because we want to present the same level of enthusiastic, community oriented and accessible information the way we do in English. Same way in Spanish. Okay, Yeah, And so that weaves into social media that we into the electron newsletters. It goes into the brochures or collateral, your swag, your videos, your programming, which is fundamental, right? Yeah, let’s talk about some events. So live events. How do you make those bilingual? Absolutely. So what’s really cool about labbate Pope in Los Angeles again, we we’ve bilingual that that bilingual asking to everything we do. So when you come onto the Levitt Lawn, you’LL see a massive led wall, a Jumbotron, if you will, and it displays real time information from set list to the vendors selling food or merchandise document partners. Any special announcements or recognitions all is per presented visually in English and Spanish, right? So there’s that step. And then there’s another layer, which is really cool is that we have emcees. Every show was the last summer, was emceed by a bilingual professional from local influencers. Podcast Media photo there. So they’re speaking in both. So they speak both languages. They’LL say two or three sentences in English, and then they’LL say it in Spanish. That’s correct. And so and this emcee not only helps narrow rate the experience for level, especially for new comers, new visitors, but it helps really set the tone of the excitement so that what is written can now have an auditory base and support, and so from commercials, as we call them to prompts from even two no smoking and picking up trash or even promised to donate on venmo or through our buckets. It’s providing that accessibility both in English and Spanish. Our sign Ege Everything is in English and Spanish in case it should the led well go out Should the sound go out and emcees can’t speak, we actually have actual signs that display the same information. And then when it goes to our actual advertising, which is placed beyond you know, our neighborhood and in Westlake and goes across the city very targeted for certain neighborhoods so that we funnel in and really reach demographics you’LL see that the billboards are staggered you’LL see English and Spanish side by side and you’LL see it for Rose and Rose and the whole point there is again presenting information at once, especially considering that you have short amount of time. Someone’s driving down the street is that you have seconds and his you know, we may have a little more time with her at a red light. Ah, and our goal there is hopefully by the end of that, you probably expanded your Spanish vocabulary. But at minimum, you know that there are fifty free concerts coming to MacArthur Park from June first two September first twenty nineteen. Time for our last break text to give you diversify your revenue by adding mobile giving. It’s not only for disasters, it’s not only for small dollar donations, it’s not on ly through the phone bill. It does not need to be through the phone bill. There are different ways of doing it that can make the donations larger. You could find out all about what text to give. Does ah eliminate some of the misconceptions you may have all by texting NPR to four four, four nine nine nine. We’ve got several more minutes for go Bi lingual. We still have some time left together. What? Absolutely, What else you want to talk about? Best, Maybe more. Best practices around the list building the membership. I’m sorry, the marketing marketing lists? Absolutely no. So I think what? Ah, very big piece, I think, fundamentally is the fund-raising. I think that’s a lens that we’re also in a new venture for us in the Spanish speaking community because we haven’t seen a culture of philanthropy and this specific neighborhood, because again we mentioned its transition, and it’s currently ah, low income community. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t create it. It just means that you make it more accessible, Easier to tap into or participate so means lower dollar fundraisers, but nonetheless, on a continuous basis. So that one people know that we need their support, but too, they can participate. How do you How do you get contact info for people who attend concerts? Sure thing s o our web. So we have kind of like a multi pronged approach. So the digital phase is on our website. There. We have a third party plug in O R. Rather service that helps present every single concert so that you can say All right, great. These are the fifty shows I’m gonna click on one, and then it asked youto ours VP, you put in your email, you select which language you’d like to receive information in, and then we’re able to, you know, grab, you know, capture that information. And then we have our community relations team that has a presence across so many events across the city that then they are actually physically collecting emails. How do they What do they say? Somebody. So they they’re walking among the audience before the show starts. Yeah, eso business, eh, Externally from our site. So if they’re out of community event, what happens? Oh, I’m sorry. He’s a community, not let us. So we have to go out. So you have tables. That’s correct. So let’s say a festival year are already all those things. You know, our swag are very appealing, so that makes it easy to bring people over. So that’s one way of getting emails. Two on the lawn again. We have our info booth, right? Very much very branded info, booth, English and Spanish information equipped with volunteers and staff. They’re also bilingual, so they’re trained cultural sensitivity, language, sensitivity. And again, that’s another way that we collect information. Because if you want to get some water, if you want to get a brochure, if you want to get a tote bag, you want to get a hat. You want to get sticker whatever it is. Once you’re there, you’re probably more likely to try to get more. You want to get more information because you’re not only receiving information, but you’re experiencing what our brand and what our mission is. Okay, I like your first point about being out in the community, not just waiting for people to call, and you don’t know that. Do you need to go out to like street fairs are great idea. That’s that’s crucial. And the thing with us is that we we want to reach everyone. So we’re all parts of the cities in different neighborhood and ethnic enclaves. Just because we want to make sure that one Level eight continues to put inclusivity at the forefront of everything that we do, too, that we make that earnest attempt of creating this organic, trusting relationships by those connections and three a letting people know there’s an incredible way to connect with fellow Angelenos and a freeway and get quality entertainment because we offer both local and international talent. And so, in a situation where L. A is an expensive city and you know, let’s say a family of four to six can’t afford four hundred dollars worth of concert tickets, right? You’re the alt correct, and so tickets, food, beverages easily. You can spend five hundred dollars in the night well, versus coming over to the level L A stage bringing your food. You know, it’s kind of a cook outside you can bring your blanket, bring your food, bring the whole family we have. Actually, we have one really cool Levitt ear, as we call them, of very staunch supporter of of ours. And her name is Nora. And every single summer she celebrates her birthday at eleven Ellen, and she brings out forty people for this, right? And it’s one of those things where it’s a great equalizer. Everyone can come whether it’s water, whether it’s juice, whether it’s a sandwich cake, they’re all coming out. Creating this potluck environment and enjoying the music and adding to the vibe at eleven Really a magical experience. We still we still actually have about two minutes there so together. So what more you’re going to share with your audience that we haven’t talked about sure that we haven’t talked about that That’s applicable for them, not about what we’ve done a lot of absolutely. I think it is just exploring the different ways that you know folks and get involved. I think media is going to be a very big point that I’m going to drive in because it’s important that people realize that should they adventure out into a second language it’s creating again those organic relationships or media. So I have conversations with Spanish media where my conversations are completely in Spanish. Right? That’s important because again you’re meeting them on their turf. I have conversations with England English media partners where everything is in English and then I have newer engagements or rather, interactions where it’s tze bilingual, right? It’s kind of reflective, right? Especially if I’m working with Gen z millennial media outlets or, you know, social media entities. It’s creating that really cool, conversational direct dialogue with them and meeting them on their turf so that when we meet them where they are absolutely so again, it helps frame the experience. But two, you know, people will be more likely to try to get involved with you if if they see that you’re making a really earnest attempt, you know, connect to their audience is that the same is travelling to another country, correct. When I think when when foreigners see that you’re you’re making an attempt to learn to use the language, your pronunciation isn’t so good. You may be the cabin. The vocabulary is not a robust, but you know it’s over between pointing and attempting and, you know, you’re you’re outreaching to them in their homeland. Correct. They’re going. They’re going to try to meet you halfway. That’s right, Right? With a little, you know, some variation of of their their English. That’s right. And what’s really same same. Exactly. And that’s and then ultimately, hyre one end this our programming, our programming, obviously, is our main product. And so we present ah, fifty percent of our baseline concert. So twenty five shows are going to be Latin genres. Right? And we’re talking about not only the cumbias and the betting is in sauces, but the acid jazz, the hip hop, the rnb thie Scott, the reggae, right? Just exploring the different visions auras of Spanish language music and presenting in away sametz correct where where they are again, understanding the culture understanding, but also helping people expand their musical pallets right there. Right, Gobi out. So the so the so The marine gay listener is getting exposed to Scott. Correct? Correct. We gotta leave it there. You’re sure? Alright. Is Oliver over Delgado? That’s right. Director of marketing and communications at the eleven a civilian Los Angeles. This is non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit Technology Conference This interview. All of them at ninety ninety Sea brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact Thanks so much for being with us next week. Grit, succeeding as a woman in Tech and how to create an implement. Great ideas both from nineteen Auntie Si. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna Slash Pursuing by Wagner’s Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers When you’re cps dot com. Bye, Tell us Credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York Thanks for that information, Scotty. There with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. 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