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Nonprofit Radio for June 12, 2020: A Better Website: 52 Tweaks In 52 Weeks & Keep Your Shiny New Website Shiny And New

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Chris Tuttle & Dominique Hernandez: A Better Website: 52 Tweaks In 52 Weeks
Chris Tuttle and Dominique Hernandez reveal lots of small tweaks for your site to increase constituent reach, engagement and actions taken. They promise they’re each less than an hour to implement. Chris is from TuttleCo and Dominique is with Institute for Policy Studies. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)

 

 

 

 

 

Josh Riman & Samantha Wasserman: Keep Your Shiny New Website Shiny And New
Now that you’ve tweaked your way to a better site, how about a maintenance plan to keep it looking great? Get plenty of tips and techniques from Josh Riman and Samantha Wasserman, both from Great Believer. (Also part of 20NTC coverage)

 

 

 

 

 

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[00:00:10.94] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas

[00:01:50.94] spk_1:
for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow a gangly own aroma if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show. A better website. 52 tweaks In 52 weeks, Crystal and Dominique Hernandez revealed lots of small tweaks for your site to increase constituent reach, engagement and actions taken. They promise they reach less than an hour to implement Chris’s from Tuttle Co. And Dominique is with Institute for Policy Studies. This is part of our 20 NTC coverage. Also, keep your shiny new website shiny and new now that you’ve tweaked your way to a better site. How about a maintenance plan to keep it looking great? Get plenty of tips and techniques from Josh Lyman and Samantha Wasserman, both from Great Believer. That’s also part of 20 NTC coverage world about websites today. Non tony take to start the racism conversation were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo. Here is ah better website. 52 tweaks in 52 weeks. Hello and welcome

[00:02:39.64] spk_2:
to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and T. C. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference we’re supposed to have been in Baltimore. The conference was canceled, but we’re going ahead. Virtually non profit radio coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? My guests are, as we kick off, the coverages are first of all, the NTC interviews. My guests are crisp little and Dominique Hernandez Chris is principal at Tunnel Co. And Dominique Hernandez is website administrator for Institute for Policy Studies. Chris Dominique. Welcome.

[00:02:42.24] spk_3:
Thank you so great to be here.

[00:03:03.74] spk_2:
I’m glad the three of us could get together. I know you’re each well and safe. I’m glad to know that as well. Um, we can’t be together in Baltimore, but we can cover the topic just as well. I think virtually 52 tweaks in 52 weeks to a better website. So you’ve got something that lasts. E think you say each of these is like an hour or less, and we can tackle one of them a week. Dominique, is that true?

[00:03:16.04] spk_4:
That is true. Um, gold from a patient is to really keep each of these tips as a bite sized chunk that a busy and oftentimes trap not profit communications professional. 10. Set aside a little bit of time for each week. And when you add all of these together cumulatively you made of you made a big improvement on your site was not a huge time about that.

[00:03:59.28] spk_2:
Okay, Yeah. Your description says we can increase constituent reach and engagement. Um, actions taken. So these air Uh Ah. Audacious, ambitious outcomes. But we can do ah, you know, spend an hour a week doing them so cool or less. Less than an hour a week for some. So why don’t we dive in? Dominique won t kick us off with now. We’re not going to be able to 52 in in Ah, you know, roughly 25 minutes or so. So we need your top. Well, whatever. However, many, maybe 10 or so we’ll get to if we depending. How much? We elaborate. 10 maybe 12 or so. So pick your pick your top ones, and we’ll go here where you got Dominique.

[00:04:22.14] spk_4:
We have picked the couple to talk about as our top save, so I’ll talk about a few of mine. Um, what I mind is to use mobile and technology to help your your feed your mobile feed when they’re accessing your articles on a phone. You might have noticed this when you Google article or when you google with top it. Sometimes the first results will have will be from a new stores, and we’ll have a little lightning bolt left of them. And the lightning bolt means that you saw the framework that helped load Web pages in less than a second and uses 10 times less data than regular Web pages who prioritize your results. Um, and that back close time is really good. First facility is Well, that’s one of mine.

[00:05:06.17] spk_2:
This is called This is called Mobile AMP. A M P

[00:05:09.43] spk_4:
ghoul a mt for accelerated mobile project

[00:05:13.94] spk_2:
Accelerating mobile project. Okay. And where would you find that to install it.

[00:05:24.78] spk_4:
You have to install their framework on your site. You can download it from them and throw it into the code that you can install on your website around your horrible

[00:05:36.11] spk_2:
Okay. Um all right, so just search for Google. Accelerated mobile. Help me.

[00:05:37.53] spk_4:
Accelerated Mobile Project framework

[00:05:39.70] spk_2:
Project Framer. OK, thank you. All right, cool. That sounds That sounds like less than an hour, Much less

[00:05:45.70] spk_4:
it would be. Yes,

[00:05:47.49] spk_3:
it could be. Okay.

[00:05:49.20] spk_4:
You want about these back and forth?

[00:05:51.34] spk_2:
Yeah, Go ahead. Yeah, I will play a little pink bomb. If it gets laborious, I’ll let you know.

[00:07:01.00] spk_3:
Sure. Well, it’s also add that, you know, we do. Estimate is about an hour. But what may take me an hour may take you 15 minutes or 30 minutes, or it may take you two hours. So, um, some, we’re gonna be a bit longer or more difficult for other than others, depending on who you are and your access to different features and functionality in your organization. So I think since Google amp. Is while easy one somewhat a technical one, that’s probably gonna be a website administrator or when programmers that are working on I’m gonna give one. That might be easier for all of us to your lives or even for a communications team, which is using a color checker to figure out whether or not the colors that were used anything on our website are visible. The people with different forms of color blindness or are easy to read for people who have different visual impairments that might make it difficult to see things that are in low contrast colors and distinguish between the maybe text in the front and the background color of the Web page. Okay, so one tool that we suggested that could be used for this is Web aim dot ward, as resource is on a contrast checker. And then there’s also several color blindness checkers that could be easily down vehicle that are completely free to use.

[00:07:17.54] spk_2:
Okay, cool. I’ve got an interview coming up today or tomorrow on total website accessibility. Why you? Why? It’s beneficial for your site to be accessible to those with disabilities special needs, but but it helped improve the sight overall for everyone.

[00:07:44.03] spk_3:
It does when we also remember that you know one in 10 males and have some type of color blindness. And there are multiple types of colorblindness that that influence what they can see and how people see things. And not all. Color blindness is a light, but you know more than 10% of the population as either color blindness or other visual impairments. And so it’s better for all of us. Makes information easier to see you. And we have high contrast and colors representing important information or details. But it’s also going to make our sight completely inaccessible if we don’t check these things.

[00:07:55.32] spk_2:
Yeah, okay. And that was again. There was Web A I am dot org’s right

[00:07:59.64] spk_3:
with aimed at work.

[00:08:02.94] spk_2:
Okay, cool. All right, Dominique, your you know your turn.

[00:08:05.84] spk_4:
Sure. So another one of my favorites on here is to deploy a CBN TDN stands for content delivery network. I’m a developer. So a lot of fun in our technical, but I tried to really bring them down to things that are easy for everyone to access. Um, and what a cdn does is reduce the loading time of your site by actually reducing the physical distance that the information has to travel across wires. So instead of having one copy of your site on a server. Somewhere in the world, there are multiple local copies. And when when they’re pure miles on the wire that that improved the load time of your site they were once really, really expensive and difficult boy and would really require developer help. But as time have done on, they’ve gotten a lot cheaper and often time. Your Web host will have them. We’ll have a package for them. Um, that will cause not that much. Um, not model. Really crazy amount. So one of my tweets is definitely check to see if your host offers a cdn and how much it costs. Definitely worth it again for your time.

[00:09:09.44] spk_2:
Okay? And you’re asking the company that hosts your site?

[00:09:14.04] spk_4:
Yeah,

[00:09:42.04] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As. The ship is still moving fast. Congress passed the Paycheck Protection Program Flexibility Act. It allows your or GE 24 weeks to spend money on forgivable expenses instead of only eight, and increases the time to pay back what’s not forgivable. It’s all explained at wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource is and Blawg. Now back to a better website. 52 tweaks In 52 weeks.

[00:09:49.73] spk_2:
It’s getting a little monotonous going back and forth, but we’re gonna do maybe two at a time. But go ahead, Chris, you go and you’re gonna be feet up with new Chris, and then we’ll give Dominique to okay, Why don’t you choose

[00:09:57.10] spk_3:
a couple of a couple others that are favorites of mine? One, I think a fairly easy one that we all overlook. And that’s also something we should say here. Dominic and I are not pretending that we’ve done all of this perfectly ourselves. In fact, in developing this resource on developing this presentation way, we’re very clearly used. Examples of sites we work, our that needed. They need work. Uh oh. This is

[00:10:20.32] spk_2:
very humble of the two of you. Thank you.

[00:11:12.74] spk_3:
We’ll just a note like this is a process for all of us. And that’s exactly why we wanted Teoh share this idea of having about our weak we prove improve our website with, instead of just waiting five years, there’s been tons of money redesigning and trying to fix everything at once. And then, of course, falling a little bit short of that goal because there’s always going to be improvements to be made So with that two easy ones that could be done. One is the four for error page uh, for non tech things, you may not know what the 44 pages For everybody else, it is that error page that we see when the Web page we intended to find either be a link search result or something else was not bound. This often happens when websites ah, restructured, updated, redesigned or moves from different platforms and hosts. But it can also happen just because we changed the URL or change the title even of a block post. And so customizing are 44 Page ensures that people who are trying to find the content they couldn’t aren’t just left at a dead end. We can customize that page. You say something that’s a little bit more friendly than four or error and tell the user what’s actually happening and give them tools and actually fixing that error, like searching the internal website for the resource they were looking for, or giving a link to the most commonly used or access resource is where they’re hosted now, or asking the user to do something else. It’s to join you on a different channel or even subscribe and trying to contact you directly to try to find the help that you were looking for.

[00:11:48.05] spk_2:
So you could you could put a search bar on that 404 error page.

[00:11:52.09] spk_3:
You can quite easily. In fact, a lot of the content management systems like Group A. WordPress Jumla. Um, it’s fairly easy to configure this with the internal centric capabilities that already exists.

[00:12:03.88] spk_2:
OK, OK, yeah, that’s true. Now that I’m thinking about it, I have seen some that are much more friendly. You know, we’re sorry you landed here. We can’t find what you’re looking for. I guess I have seen them with a search or right, As you suggest. Maybe you’ll be interested in this other content that is most popular or something like that. Yeah. And the others air just, uh, somewhere. Just bear templates that nobody’s ever looked

[00:12:48.21] spk_3:
like Yeah or Brandon pages that maybe a euro they fought should go somewhere like a ah organization. Uh, orc slash donate. They thought was going to take him to the donation for which it should, if it doesn’t. But there’s all types of reasons that users might be typing in or finding a bad world. So the second tip there are traps that we can make is also utilizing our websites. They’re hosting service’s, depending on what Web post you have. Or if you’re using something like WordPress true, Juma or dribble installing a plug in that will help you easily find those 44 pages. What are the links that people are active thing? That I’m returning the 44 page so that you can create custom redirect X for each of those page pages, either taking them now not to that customized for four cage, but to the specific resource they have meant to find in the first place.

[00:13:18.83] spk_2:
Okay, how do we do this? How do we find all the links that are causing the four forever’s?

[00:13:48.18] spk_3:
Yeah, if you’re armed, any of the major content management system was like WordPress, triple or Jumah. There are plug ins that exists. We use redirect a redirection. Our WordPress often eyes an easy plug in that will tell you what of those four for what pages? What your l’s are returning those four for error messages and will allow you to create a custom, uh, redirect from a specific you world to the new one. Very easy to use. I mean, really this to the states. Less than an hour for sure. Um, just set up andan. Actively. Manage over time.

[00:13:57.14] spk_2:
Okay, cool. Those 404 related. Excellent. Thank you. All right, Dominique.

[00:14:50.89] spk_4:
Sure. So another one of the treats I’d like to talk about is that you can perform a responsiveness review test without having tablets or phones with part of you using developer pool in the major browsers in the major browsers in chrome and Firefox, it’s either control on Windows Air Command on a Mac plus shift. Plus, I brings up a developer pulled interface where you’ll see the website and you’ll see a bunch of code at the bottom of the great place at a CSS if you want to. But along the hop, there’s a bar where you can simulate all different kinds of devices all different. Find the full homes or programs in iPhones going back several generations, some of the more popular android phone tablet sizes, and you can also put in any custom screen resolution screen sizes that you want. You’ll see how your site will render on any of those and anything, anything that might be getting hung up anything that falls off the page, it doesn’t look quite right. You know exactly what? The edit? You actually have have any of the devices? Part of you did do that simulation right there. Building your brother.

[00:15:07.13] spk_2:
Okay. Could you give us those keystrokes one more time, please?

[00:15:10.84] spk_4:
Sure. Its control on the windows or command on a Mac plus ship. Plus I

[00:15:16.84] spk_2:
okay, okay.

[00:15:57.21] spk_4:
And another one, which is more about accessibility That Chris was talking about before with color tracker, um is to try to interact with your website without about their folks that that used what place? Exclusively using keyboard navigation. And you should be able to from the address bar, you should be able to hit a tab key and other keyboard controls to move through every element on the page. Those elements should be highlighted with a little box. And there are right. I see your face right now. Is this something that you don’t think about if you are mouth user all the time, But there folks who don’t use amount and is every element under page accessible to some without using a mouth, I think is a really good thing to check over. You could at least do that check in the hour time frame and then schedule out any improvements that you need to make.

[00:16:16.44] spk_2:
Okay. Yeah. I mean, if we have thousands of pages, isn’t that this is gonna This is gonna be a much longer one, beyond-potential

[00:16:21.04] spk_4:
e. I mean, for a lot of these, I would say focus on your home page and your top traffic pages like coffins analytic. See, with those top traffic pages are you know, what are the top five that really get people eyes on them? Um, if you have paid on your site that gets three visitors a year, it’ll be fine. Don’t worry about it. You know, focus on what really has live on it.

[00:16:40.64] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Did you give us another one?

[00:16:47.24] spk_4:
I give you another one. Okay. I’m gonna go down in the things

[00:16:48.45] spk_2:
I said to and then I made three e.

[00:16:52.84] spk_4:
I have another one right here. This

[00:16:54.66] spk_3:
one actually is

[00:16:56.56] spk_4:
two for easy. Especially if you’re using WordPress or another constant mounting system at a two factor authentication for your log in screen.

[00:17:05.94] spk_2:
Two factor authentication. Oh, yes. Okay. Yes.

[00:17:09.05] spk_4:
You have Robert for walking folk logging in from different locations. If you’re sharing while giving the developers or other external people just make sure that everyone feeling being really faced when they log in and protector security

[00:17:20.59] spk_2:
is that sort of a spy becoming the standard now? I mean, I get I get that offer from a lot more sites now. Then I did on it Seemed like even just a year ago or so, you know, encouraging me. Teoh, sign up for two factor authentication, whether it’s by email or by text message is that Is that sort of becoming the standard Loggins?

[00:17:41.72] spk_4:
I haven’t. I see. It was standard. A lot of fun with account. Loggins for other website. I haven’t seen it. I would like to see it, but haven’t seen it rising as a standard for your actual admin account to manage the back end of a website. But I do think it’s a smart security move.

[00:17:57.44] spk_3:
Okay, if I can add I mean, we’re seeing websites of nonprofits becoming targets of attack increasingly so over the last four years, a ZX, much as foreign agents or tryingto have corporate websites. It’s They’re also trying to hack non profit websites, and it’s incredibly easy. We’ve heard of nonprofits have had their websites held for ransom, who had them taken over used maliciously. And so I actually have toe not just agree, but kind of reinforce. I think we’re done. Nick is saying that we should all consider two factor authentication of requirement for our jobs and are not profits. If we have access to something like administrative controls of a website, have access to private constituent data. Have access to private donor data. Mads, most of us in our organizations.

[00:18:42.93] spk_2:
Okay, Chris, go ahead. You’re

[00:20:57.34] spk_3:
okay. Two more. Two more. Um, these are actually two of my favorites because it’s something that’s so in a way, very easy. But, um, none of us really do well and myself included. I think we overlook it because it’s what happens after a transaction. So it’s the confirmation page and the acknowledging the emails is there to tweaks confirmation page and acknowledgement emails that people see and receive after they take a major action on our website. Like sign up, subscribe. Donate to us. You think of the confirmation page 100% of people who went to the process and got to your donation page and made a donation. 100% of them are going to see a confirmation page, and about 80% of them are gonna open that acknowledgement email. And yet most of us use that content as another debt. It basically a wall to say thank you. Here’s what you just did. I find it especially funny of acknowledging the emails, and I’ve done some research with various organizations that worked with over the years, looking at large scale amounts of acknowledgement emails that were sent versus newsletters versus appeal letters versus other types of email communications. And while emails, appeals and other newsletters receive anywhere between, like 10 50% open rates, at least 80% of our users are opening the acknowledgement email that tells them what they just did on your website. So can we use that as an opportunity to provide a new engagement for them or a new call to action? But I try to end every engagement opportunity or touch points like a donation with an opportunity for three new touch points to begin, and that could be as easily as watch this video to find out how your body is gonna be abused or the impact you just help us make It can be. Subscribe to our email so you can stay on top of what’s happening next. It could be a tender local event. Follow us on social media. Tweet your support. There’s so many ways that we can keep folks engaged instead of simply saying thank you and goodbye. So that’s two of them. That’s our confirmation page. The page we see after the taken action. What? How can we customize that to make it more engaging and offer more for the donor to do next? And it’s our acknowledge me email, usually an email they received within 24 hours after taking a major action on our website. And Mike Wise also usually gives them tax information or confirmation what they just did, but also an opportunity to ask them to tweet, click, follow, share, watch we do more.

[00:21:14.05] spk_2:
Okay, I was just gonna ask, Are these good places Teoh acquaint people with the social channels for

[00:21:42.95] spk_3:
absolutely campus? Yeah, I would. I would make it a little bit more personal, probably, and customize it more than just follow us. Um, I took one tactic I’ve seen used. That I really appreciate is following it up with a thank you video that maybe is, or an impact video that’s hosted on a social media channel that you can either link to, say, Watch this video and then take them to Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn wherever you want them to be. YouTube had them watch it there so that they’re actually exposed to that. Another candle, your on instead of just sending them back to your website where they just came from.

[00:21:51.57] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Does that count is two or that was two places to do. The same action

[00:21:57.36] spk_3:
that was to different actions that we contain. Customizing a web page is gonna take about an hour problem.

[00:22:00.94] spk_2:
Okay, um, you want to another one?

[00:23:50.84] spk_3:
Sure. So speaking of calls to action, another one that we want to talk about was effective Calls to action. And there’s been lots of research on this from a lot of different companies. One very famous study is actually from head pub spot. Um, that showed ah, fairly drastic increase in conversions on click throughs. Win the links that in the buttons that were used with the cholera action included more than something like read more or, um, or down or Ah uh, was it click here. That’s the other one. Whenever we have a link on a Web page that says Click here or a button that just says Submit, that’s the other one that could be bothersome. So those are basic called actions and Hub. Spot says that smart to call the actions that are very specific description action oriented can actually increase the conversions by around 42% of the click throughs. This these men not conversions pictures by 42% to those links. So instead of read Mawr, maybe, the link says, register for 52 tweaks. Webinar. It’s descriptive. It’s clear it’s gonna be more action oriented saying, Register, do this. You’re telling them exactly what they want them to do. And it’s also going to be better for search engines because it tells search engines what’s behind that link. It also is better for screen readers because screen readers will read out a link that says, Read more and then they don’t know what MAWR it would divorce about, uh or just says submit, and they don’t know which form are no Web page there actually submitted. So we can be a bit more specific with our buttons instead of submit by saying these, like, register, read more, sign up post to Facebook. So instead of just share post specifically to each channel on a button download, even download the resource.

[00:24:14.27] spk_2:
Okay, Okay. That’s a good one, because there’s But the buttons are so ubiquitous. Um, have to quibble with you about called toe actions. I would I would have said calls to action. Like attorneys general. Yeah, Generals. So I don’t You might want Yes. Just ah, tweak. 53 tweaks in 52 weeks. Um, how many? Go ahead, please.

[00:25:15.24] spk_4:
Sure. So two more for me and these. I will. I will take it out of developer land. Um, and and these These are actually both really quick and easy. These could be done in far less than an hour. So one of them is placing a call to action In your footer, people look at the footer that’s been shown through through heat mapping tools where they met over people. I goes where their mouth is go. So political action and that Twitter, if you can. And if you can embed a form directly getting more and more popular to have a tiny subscribe form in your in your footer that’s just birth last and email stupor. Simple one and then another super simple one is auditing your staff page. Is there anyone left on that half page that doesn’t work the organization anymore? Is that leading to their email address that might help you monitor anymore? Is there anyone who has been hired who’s not all that page and needs to be? I think I when I also consult and when I do what I for naught profit law that time. You know what I’m working on the content with, um, that we like, Oh, they’re seven changes the stat page that we just haven’t made in the last six months. So your view is, get a let out, keep it up to date. It doesn’t take a long time.

[00:26:04.04] spk_2:
No, it’s coming to me to while we’re the three of us are talking Dominique that depending on when I air this, you know, we may still all be working from home. Um, I don’t know for sure, but a good chance. These are the kinds of things that could easily fit on a task list. You know, you could not that we’re working from home and have enormous amounts of free time, but we it seems like the kind of things things we know we could pick our top half a dozen or so that we want that we want to take on of the ones were discussing and and you know where to take them off one a week or once, even one every couple weeks while we’re, you know, most likely still working from home

[00:26:13.35] spk_4:
coolly. And also, I think, what kind of your stressful Sometimes it feel, what they are for everyone right now and which they probably will be for a while. But I feel really easy to have, like, one relatively right. This is why people put shower on their to do list so they can

[00:26:28.07] spk_2:
cough

[00:26:28.36] spk_4:
it off. It’s feel good and create momentum to have something easy that you can do and then check off and move forward.

[00:26:45.58] spk_2:
Okay, this is cool. This is a great one to kick off R and D C coverage with easy, easy fixes. Don’t take long. Um, let’s see who who started because we’re gonna We’re gonna wrap with the next round. So who Christie went

[00:26:52.05] spk_4:
you

[00:26:52.51] spk_2:
used. Okay, Chris, Go ahead. Wraps up.

[00:28:38.64] spk_3:
Well, okay, well, let’s wrap it up with one of them. That should probably actually be first that we haven’t already done these yet. And that’s around setting up Google tag manager. So Google tag manager is the modern future proof version of a tag data that you in bed under website and it allows Google analytics and other code to be embedded on your Web site. So we contract outta around how users are accessing our website where they’re coming from and more information. So most of us by now probably have Google Analytics code on our website already. Hopefully, we’ve already updated, but if we haven’t yet Google tag managers, the new version, because who will analytics code would require tweaking of the code. Every time we wanted to add a new event, an event, it could be something like ensuring that we’re able to track the number of PDS that are downloaded on our website or able to track the percentage of a page that somebody schools on our website. These are things that Go analytics doesn’t track by default, although they can be easily configured with Google tag manager. Over time, we can add new event triggers or new code, even things like Facebook pixel, which is used to attract people from Facebook who are on our website taking actions after seeing an ad or post. All of this is much more manageable, manageable and easier to use. With Google tag manager like Google Analytics, it’s free to set up. I need to be found a tag manager dot google dot com And then we have about five more that if you end up coming in watching the recording of our presentation or downloading the slide, you have access to all of these that includes, like spending an hour one week setting up event tracking to ensure that P, D. EFS and other non native forms of content are actually tracked. When access on their website. Well, like I suggested the scroll on a page, we can track the percentage of school on page, which is incredibly important for organizations that are writing a lot of contents. Blawg Post resource is other educational information.

[00:28:51.06] spk_2:
Where can we find the slides.

[00:29:01.24] spk_3:
So the slides and the recording of this presentation are gonna be available at tuttle dot link slash 52 tweaks total dot link slash 52 tweaks. That’s to U T T L E. You’ll get the slides. You can get a recording of our webinar. You can also subscribe to an email if you like. A drip campaign will send you one email week with one of these tweaks and links to instructions on how to start it.

[00:29:31.84] spk_2:
Oh, cool you and dominate for doing this together we are. Yeah, awesome. All right, that’s that’s fabulous. All right. Thank you very much. Both of you, for ah, kicking off our coverage. It’s Chris Total, principal at Tunnel Co and Dominique Hernandez, website administrator for Institute for Policy Studies. Thanks to both of you. Thanks so much.

[00:29:39.84] spk_5:
Things are just

[00:29:41.34] spk_2:
responsive by Cougar Mountain software. This and TC coverage. Thanks so much for being with our 20 and TC coverage,

[00:31:48.01] spk_1:
we need to take a break. Cougar Mountains software. Their accounting product Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial. Check it out on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant non Now, time for Tony’s take to start the racism conversation. That’s our latest special episode. If we’re going to have a legitimate national conversation about race, it’s got to start with each of us. We can’t count on somebody else. I used to have a Boy Scout leader who said There is nobody named somebody else. We certainly can’t count on political leadership. They’ll just get dragged along later on after we start things after we create the momentum, it starts with each of us. For every time you’ve seen Gandhi’s be the change you wish to see in the world posted on Twitter and Facebook, this is a moment for you to walk the walk, not merely read the post. There’s 401 year old systemic racism running throughout our country, including throughout the non profit community, including throughout your non profit. Do you want to identify it and deal with it, or do you want to merely read the post and walk by like the officers who stood by while George Floyd was murdered. Like the officers who walked by. Martin Gino laying bleeding in Buffalo. If you want to be the change, you need to start the conversation. That’s where our special episode helps you do. My guest is Case Suarez, executive director of Equity in the Center. It’s out in podcast. If you prefer video, it’s on my YouTube channel in the racism and white privilege playlist that is tony Stick do Now. Time for Keep Your shiny new website shiny and new.

[00:32:21.94] spk_2:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference. The conference had to be canceled, unfortunately, but we are continuing virtually with our coverage. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. Joining me now are Josh Rheiman and Samantha Wasserman. They are both with great believer. Josh is the founder and president, and Samantha is account manager. Josh Samantha. Welcome.

[00:32:24.44] spk_5:
Thanks. Thank you.

[00:32:44.14] spk_2:
I’m glad we could work this out. It’s good to know that you’re each well and safe both in Brooklyn, New York. I’m glad I’m glad we could get together. Today. Was to We’re, ah, talking about your conference topic, which is Keep your shining new website shiny and new. Um, Josh, why did you start us off? What seems to be the problem? Why did you think that we needed ah, session like this? Put it that way.

[00:32:52.74] spk_5:
Sure. Um, we find that a lot of organizations invest a ton of time and money and energy and their websites, and then they just sort of forget they exist and way like to compare, um, a new website to a new car. A car starts to depreciate a sooner to drive it off the lot. And if the websites not properly attended to the same kidnapping into it. So we like to devise really strategic maintenance plans with organizations we work with to make sure that the value continues to grow over time.

[00:33:22.44] spk_2:
Okay. Maintenance plans. So? Well, we have some time to get into the maintenance planning. Um, you have some tips on keeping it fresh and keeping content fresh. Um, Samantha, Anything you want to add to the beginning of part of this?

[00:33:38.19] spk_6:
I think Josh pretty much summed it up. We know that it could be a lot to manage a website, and we have some ideas for how to keep things interesting and up to date after lunch.

[00:33:47.88] spk_2:
Okay, cool. So why don’t you get us started? What? Uh, what goes into this maintenance plans, Samantha?

[00:34:57.43] spk_6:
Well, we think it’s really important. Teoh identify key people at your organization to keep the website up to date. We know it could be a lot of work for a single staff member to be responsible for all of an organization’s website updates. So we always recommend finding different gatekeepers for different types of content. So whether it’s an HR team being responsible for job postings or development team being responsible for keeping events up to date, it’s really important to try to spread out the responsibility a little bit. Um, it’s also really important toe. Think about keeping content current. So are you updating blawg posts? Are you updating your staff and board list? Users are going to come to your site trying to find up to date information about what’s happening at the organization. So it’s really important wherever possible, that you’re keeping content updated. So even if it’s little things like shifting an image on your home page or promoting a new program just something so that the state feels less stale every time a user visits. That could go a long way in helping things feel dynamic.

[00:35:04.74] spk_2:
What about that blawg, Samantha? It’s it’s that can be daunting. You recommend? I guess, I presume. But I won’t make explicit distributing that around so that different different teams are contributing content to the blocks of the Nobody feels burdened and overwhelmed, but it still stays fresh.

[00:35:50.06] spk_6:
That’s a great question. We hear this a lot, you know, It could be a little bit Don thing to keep, um, up to date with a content production schedule. So there’s a couple of things you can do. You can definitely bring in various collaborators to tell stories from all over the organization or client stories potentially but also think about what you’re going to call that log Block has a certain association in terms of a frequency of posting. Maybe if you come up with a different creative title for your blogged, it’ll help alleviate that pressure a little bit. Andan also tried

[00:36:05.93] spk_2:
What? What? Let me Let me stop you. If you got an example or two of something creative instead of calling it you know, on the main navigation bar tickling our blawg. You got something? Sure, but one

[00:36:07.03] spk_6:
of our Yeah, one of our clients is called Data two X. Um and they came up with a name for their block called the two X tape. Um, so just something a little bit

[00:36:16.73] spk_2:
creatively

[00:36:17.56] spk_6:
on their name. It’s not too different than a blogger, but just, um maybe people don’t associate that with the same weekly update,

[00:36:24.73] spk_2:
wearier more often lower, lower the expectations

[00:36:32.83] spk_6:
exactly. And then also try toe produce content in advance so that if there’s a busier time, you know, maybe it’s grown a virus and you don’t have time for your regularly scheduled programming. You have something in your back pocket that you can go back to something evergreen, um, that you prepared when things are a little bit slower. So it’s always great to kind of load up that content calendar when you have the time.

[00:36:54.44] spk_2:
Yeah, OK. OK, Josh, more, more. You want to add on the this overall maintenance plan?

[00:37:37.72] spk_5:
Sure. I mean, a lot of the things that Samantha is talking about the things that I can talk about also are things that really anybody could do at their organization. You don’t need to be a designer, you don’t need to be a developer. And there are maintenance plans that we construct that are much more Design and development focused, but the plan for this session was to really give people tips and tricks they can put into action immediately. Um, and that could be whether they are, you know, preparing to start a website redesign process that they’re in the midst of one or if they recently completed one. It’s always good to start thinking about ways that they can put these interaction themselves and don’t need to actually hire an outside vendor. And there is a lot of other, um, there a lot of other ideas that we do want to mention. I think a really important thing, though, that you can do either during the processor after is to make the most of your Web vendor. And there’s a lot of things there went. Bender can do it. Prepare your website in a way that makes us effective. This possible. So, for example, every website we do in every website profit every website built nowadays is much more user friendly in terms of being able to make content updates to it. We use WordPress. WordPress is like 40% of the Internet at this point, and we’re presses so nice because we can custom design a cider or whatever Web under your working with custom. Design it, but you can to make edits toe all the pages of your site yourself, whether it’s adding a new team member, duplicating a page for a new campaign or otherwise. So that’s one thing that we always encourage people to make sure their Web vendors are doing to make sure that their site will also be easy to manage. And there are other things. Also, any Web make sure

[00:38:36.74] spk_1:
let’s go through some of these tips and tricks. Yeah, don’t.

[00:38:39.42] spk_5:
All right

[00:38:43.35] spk_2:
way Don’t hold out on us, please. About

[00:40:23.21] spk_5:
yeah, for sure. I mean, there are a lot of other things Any Web vendor should connect your site to. Google Analytics. You should have a tool for search engine optimization and Google ads is something you have the Google ad grant and a really important piece of our process, and everyone thunders process should be to give the organization a training guide that actually shows how to use the back end of your site, whether it’s WordPress or truthful or another content management system. So yes, there should always be a training session where the agency runs the organization through the back end of their site shows not a make updates, every page of the site, and so on and so forth. But the training guide is a nice reminder for someone who may have been in that session but forgot circle pieces but could also be something that’s given to a new staff member when they join so they don’t need to get the whole run down the 30 minute run down for another staff member. They could just take the guide and go off to the races. And on a similar note, we recommend creating something we call a in case of emergency document. And this is just when things go wrong. This is the thing you turn to. So it should have that training guide in it, or a link to the training guide so anybody could make any changes to the site. They need to, for example, with um cove in 19 of somebody in less than they could change the home page to call out their approach to responding to the crisis. They need to be able to log into the site and make that change. So it’s always great to have access to that training guide. But it’s also important that access to your Web vendor. So we always recommend putting contact in both for that web vendor into this incurred in case of emergency document contact didn’t vote for your donation platforms. Other platforms on your side should something break. And suddenly things are not working correctly to make sure that could get fixed as soon as possible. Also, log in credentials. Oh, God.

[00:40:25.97] spk_2:
Um, I was gonna change subject little bit. So did you want us to say finish something about log in credentials?

[00:40:33.08] spk_5:
Yeah, this quickly. I did other things you can put into this document or log in credentials to other platforms on your site. Even contact info for your host. If suddenly your site is down and you have no idea why. Just making sure you have at your disposal information. You need to fix things if they go wrong. Because we always say Internet is is an in perfect place. Google docks goes down. Google doc breaks. So it’s always great to have at your disposal access points to fix things. Hopefully, they don’t go wrong too often when they dio, you should be able to resolve them quickly.

[00:41:14.61] spk_2:
Okay, um, I was gonna take a little digression with you. I’m wondering why you prefer WordPress over Drew Pole or Jumla. Can you, uh you sound like maybe your WordPress evangelist. Do you want toe? Explain why, Why? You prefer WordPress over other ones?

[00:41:20.61] spk_5:
Sure, and I’m sure Samantha want to chime in here. Also, the main thing for us is that we do all of our design completely from scratch. And we do our very best to then build the websites in a way where any client can very easily manage it themselves. And we find the WordPress works the best for that with something like dribble and dribble releases a new version. Um, you often need to make pre wholesale updates to your side if not fully revamp your sight completely. And with WordPress, the updates that are released are are easier to handle. They don’t require widespread changes. So we think that where press works well to make sure the site will still look beautiful. It would be easy to manage and also will work well for years to come given, given its its build set up and also the fact that it is like 35 to 40% of the Internet.

[00:42:06.80] spk_2:
Yeah, Samantha, anything you want to add on, Why WordPress.

[00:42:28.90] spk_6:
It allows us to make our designs as customers. We’d like a CE Josh mentioned. And so it’s kind of the perfect marriage, something that we can give over to our clients once it’s finished and looks amazing. And we do a lot of, um, kind of modular template ties pages. And it allows our clients to mix and match different pieces to meet their needs for new programs or new cook campaigns as they come up.

[00:42:35.30] spk_2:
Okay,

[00:42:35.71] spk_5:
We also find that since WordPress is so popular that when we create a new website for an organization, some of not most of people that we trained to manage that side have dabbled with WordPress or even manage a WordPress site before, So it’s less of a 0 to 60 approach

[00:43:29.42] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know that turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard. So people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re a turn hyphen two dot ceo we’ve got but loads more time for keep your shiny new website shiny and new. Samantha, let’s go back to

[00:43:40.40] spk_2:
you. Uh, one of the things that you mentioned in there Ah, session description is techniques to allocate different types of updates to different team members. Uh, what can you What can you flush out there for us?

[00:44:07.30] spk_6:
Sure. Well, piggybacking off of the WordPress discussion a little bit, um, within WordPress. And I’m sure in other CMS isas well, there are different levels of access that you can give different users, so this could be really useful. Maybe you have an intern who’s helping you with those block post you don’t want to give them. We’ll publish access on the web site. But you want people to drop something that a supervisor then reviews, or you can give that huge. Our team that I mentioned before access to just the job posts on the website but not full access to the website. So there’s a lot of customization that you can do. Um, and we always think it starts to just get a ZX Many people on board with learning how to update the website is possible. Just toe. Like I said, spread out the responsibility. But also, you know, if someone leaves the organization, you don’t want to be left in a place where you can update your website for several months because the one person with all of that knowledge is no longer available.

[00:44:54.49] spk_2:
So it sounds like you really favor a decentralized approach. Teoh Content Management is there Anybody who maybe shouldn’t be shouldn’t make medic, maybe contributes content, but it doesn’t have the authority to change the site themselves. They really like that.

[00:44:59.09] spk_6:
We try to hide as many settings in our WordPress dashboards as possible. That could lead toe larger site wide or code changes. Uh, but within an organization, it really does depend on the organizational structure. But typically there is kind of one person on the communications team who will really, um, lead the whole process and assigned different responsibilities. But we do find that it could be a really overwhelming task, especially when you first launch to get all the content loaded in. And that’s where we see in our website projects. Um, some of the biggest challenges or holdups timeline wise for our clients. So we do always recommend to try to find several different team members who can emphasise.

[00:45:58.15] spk_2:
Okay, what about keeping supporters engaged? You know, people engaged with your site after, ah, full blown launch. I mean, some of that, for a good part of that is keeping content fresh. I realized that something beyond beyond just that the you can talk about

[00:46:03.72] spk_6:
Absolutely. So it’s like you said, it’s not enough just to keep the site updated. It’s also important to make sure that, um, users continue to find their way to your site. So when the site first launches, of course it’s important to you social media posts and email blasts and Google ads to drive traffic to the site. But this continues to be important even after lunch. In this maintenance period sides, you add new content or pages like upcoming events or a capital campaign. It’s really important to use those tools to drive users back to the website again.

[00:46:36.58] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Um, Josh is there. Is there anything that would sort of be a trigger for when we need ah, refresh of our site? Maybe it’s not a full blown new site, but at least a refresh or or maybe something more like. Are you listening to what people are saying? People don’t come out and say your site looks dull or you know, your site looks like 2003. But how do you I didn’t know that it may be time for at least a refresh.

[00:47:06.18] spk_5:
Yeah, there’s really two sides of the equation. The first is the visual side and really just asking people to honestly look at their website and feel like if it reflects who they are from a design perspective doesn’t do justice to their mission and their work. And also is the user experience clear? If you send somebody to the site looking to make a donation, can they easily do it? If you send somebody to the site to fill it a volunteer form can they get there without calling the office to find out how to do it? So sometimes an old website doesn’t just look bad, but actually can waste time for staff members who need to explain how to get there and also just not do justice to the current status of their work. That’s the front end to the site, but also back in perspective, like we’re talking about with site management. It’s so important that anybody without coding skills or technical expertise or average non profit staffer could make changes to the site themselves. And we have found that a lot of sites that were revamping they actually are circa 2003 or something around there. And because of that, they look very outdated. They don’t really have relevant programmatic language compared to what the organization does now, and they’re impossible to update. And if they can update it, they can update only small components. And if they can’t have to rely upon 1/3 party who often has to have him enter into a ticketing system, and they could take a couple of days to make a very small change like let’s, say, changing your phone number.

[00:48:44.81] spk_2:
Yeah, okay, Okay, Um, if you have all these people contributing to your site, how do you make sure that things look the same. Feel the same across across all the different pages that they might the different teams air, contributing to consistency. Basically, I’m asking about How do you How do you make sure your site looks consistent throughout?

[00:48:51.77] spk_6:
I think that goes back. Teoh Josh’s point about leaning on your Web thunder and making sure that you have adequate training or training guide, Um, after the site is built but also on the organization side. It’s really important to have that kind of team leader who oversees all website updates, and you kind of be the consistency police or the brand police, you know, make sure that the tone is the same and that the correct templates being used making kind of run point on everything

[00:49:17.97] spk_2:
okay,

[00:50:01.26] spk_5:
Yeah, and piggyback enough that that training guide will have very specific information or shoot ivory specific information. For example, the featured image on your home page measures this this many pixels by this many pixels. So when you replace it with a new photo, it’s not cropped awkwardly. It’s not too small to fit the space that’s really important. But another thing you can get from your webs under is design assets from your website. And if an organization of somebody on staff whose aware of how to use Adobe in design or photo shop or illustrator you can actually request assets for graphics like let’s say, an infographic that talks about how many people you served in 2019. If the organization has that raw file, they can update it for 2020 and that can replace that file on the website. But even if an organization doesn’t have people that air designed savvy with those programs, they can still request all the assets to have them. You know, j pegs of the infographics another graphics used in their sight snake and then use those and other places like, um, like an email blessed to again create that level of consistency like you were talking about across all these different channels.

[00:50:23.30] spk_2:
Yeah. Okay. We still got a few minutes left, Josh. Anything? What happened? We talked about that. You’d like people to know.

[00:50:34.66] spk_5:
Good question. I I think the

[00:50:35.72] spk_2:
okay

[00:51:10.16] spk_5:
ultra. One thing out there. I think a lot of the a lot of the need for Web maintenance comes from relief. Thinking about who you are as an organization on what are the key actions you’re driving. So donations air almost usually number one for all, or eggs. And the visitors, their science, then you need to think about is event registration important? Our email sign ups important. Our volunteer sign ups important because you want to keep your site current with all the content we’re talking about. But you also want to drive people apart to your site where they can take those actions that are so important to keep your organization running. So kind of assessing the real purpose of your site and those key actions you’re driving could help to dictate what kind of maintenance plan you might need.

[00:51:21.39] spk_2:
Okay, How about you, Samantha? Something you’d like to add that we haven’t talked about yet or go more detail or

[00:51:32.86] spk_6:
thanks, Josh pretty much covered it. Um, I think it’s really important toe. Make sure that Yeah, um, realizing that users are going to your website as probably the first place they look for updates about your organization. And so all of the tips that we’ve outlined are really important just to make sure that information is up to do and there’s nothing that screams outdated, like an event being highlighted on the home page that past two months ago. So just being really cognizant of, um, what contents being featured and how often you’re checking back on your site?

[00:52:05.95] spk_5:
Okay, I’ll throw one more thing out there, tony, which is oftentimes it’s very hard for an organization to get funding allocated to a website redesign process because that’s money that could be going elsewhere. Money date on fighting for for years. Um, but what we recommend organizations do is not just fight for the money to cover that website redesign, but also fight for money that could handle maintenance and maintenance in terms of how it’s structured is really a case to case basis you could talk about with your Web vendor, but you’ll wanna have additional funds lying around and ready for use to make sure that your Web vendor can continue to work with you. Because all the things that we’re talking about you can do yourself. There are certain things, like if you want to make a brand new page from scratch or create new graphics or in bed a new piece of functionality, it’s important to have hopefully some budget remaining after the initial Web redesign budget was depleted. To get the full picture and to keep your site growing from, ah, more of a design and development perspective.

[00:53:07.72] spk_2:
Okay. All right, we’re gonna wrap it up there. All right? That’s Josh Rheiman, founder and president of Great Believer and Samantha Wasserman, account manager, A great believer, and both in Brooklyn, New York, where the company is Thanks so much. Thanks for sharing. Just like dozens of tips. Thank you very much.

[00:53:17.05] spk_5:
Thanks, tony.

[00:53:27.01] spk_2:
And all right, stay safe and thank you for being with tony-martignetti. Non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us

[00:54:23.36] spk_1:
next week. Women of color in Fundraising and Philanthropy A new online community will have the founder back, Yolanda Johnson, plus more interviews from 20 NTC. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for the free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative

[00:55:02.15] spk_0:
producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz Managed Stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this Music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for April 12, 2019: Be Accessible & Go Bilingual

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Hey. Oh, hi there. Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of Macro Stone Mia if I had to say that you missed today’s show Be accessible. Inclusive website design that builds in accessibility helps everyone, not only those with disabilities, and it helps you with the CEO. Our panel uses the example of the MacArthur Foundation site Rebuild their James Kinzer from the MacArthur Foundation and Cindy Roland with Web aim Go bilingual Oliver Delgado helps you navigate the bilingual balance in print, social and on your site as we discuss opportunities and challenges. He’s from Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles, on Tony’s Take two Grieving in your plant e-giving. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service, fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner c. P. A’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com But tell US Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine here is be accessible from the nineteen ntcdinosaur twenty nineteen non-profit Technology conference. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen NTC. You know what that is tonight? Twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Way are in the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and this interview, Like all of ours at nineteen NTC is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact With Me are James Kinzer is senior associate for digital communications at the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and Cindy Roland. She’s director of Web AIM at Utah State University. James Cindy. Welcome. Welcome to non-profit radio. With pleasure. Thank you, Cindy. What is Web aim? So Webb started in nineteen ninety nine. Two. Actually, we started with federal funding to assist folks in higher education with Web accessibility. We’ve since grown were now working in literally every sector on helping Web developers, Web designers and content creators will make their content accessible for individuals with disabilities. OK, OK, and James, I I hope I can get this right. That MacArthur Foundation seeks a more just verdant and peaceful world was full world. Thank you I’m a big NPR listener. What do you do specifically at senior associate with digital communication? What does that mean? That the foundation. Right. So my primary role is to manage content on the Web site and Tio manage over email communications, But it also involves a lot of project management. And so one of the largest projects that I managed recently is the complete redesign of our website. Look at this wonderful transition. Yeah, to redesign of the website to include accessibility. Exactly. Okay. Okay. And you, uh, you built in some grantee grantee encouragement there, too. With guides. Is that right? We’re in the process of developing developing that with the wedding team. Currently? Yeah, we’LL get to that. Okay, good. If I forget, remind me. Okay, Because the fact that you’re trickling it down it didn’t It doesn’t stop with the foundation, But you’re encouraging your grantees to do the same. Or at least a attempt. Yeah, exactly. Conscious are our learning. You’re so great and valuable. We recognized that it would be so stingy for just for us to keep that to ourselves. We wanted to make sure we were sharing that with the greater population And, of course, it doesn’t just stop with MacArthur grantees this booklet. Once it’s done, it ,’LL be available. Really, Teo. Anyone in, well, anyone? But certainly we envision that it’s going to be of use to you lots and lots non-profits non-profits. Cindy. Why is accessible design important form or with the wider population than those who need accessible sites? Right? Well, you know, and you you are hitting on a really important piece, which is, of course, everyone’s going to agree that we make content accessible to everyone, including those with disabilities, because that’s just the right thing to do. You know, anyone who has a moral core isn’t going to purposely exclude a segment of the population. But there are lots of reasons that you would develop accessibly just for typical users on DH. I won’t even go into as we all age. We all acquire disabilities, but we all typically in our lifetime have some accidental disabilities. Whether it is, I break my arm. I dropped my mouse and it busts into hundred pieces. I have, you know, some kind of ah temporary vision issue that needs, you know, Cem correction and takes a little bit time so accessible design ends up by being hopeful for everyone. It’s helpful on mobile devices. It’s helpful in virtually, you know, every platform. So those folks that are developing accessibly are not only helping those with disabilities, but they’re helping everyone. Okay, is there also an sio advantage? If we have to make it, bring it down to such a basic level, right? Which I admit. But I’m the one asking questions. You know, they’re they’re they’re also there is all right, So you know there’s there. We all know that it’s, you know, secret sauce in the background there as to how the the CEO’s air really pulled together. But those sites that are accessible end up by being, you know well, it makes sense because you’re able to call through all of the text information, and it’s able Teo, get at things that you might be presenting visually. So let’s say you have an image or you have a chart that you’re providing to visual users. If you have alternative text or you have some description, the search engines air ableto look at that text and be able to index that properly so it does end up by helping fun folks find your content. Okay. At the MacArthur Foundation, James, what raised the consciousness that in your redesign you needed to consider accessibility? Yeah, So we had a CZ. Part of our regular development process is worked with a developer to do just kind of an ad hoc scan on accessibility for the website. And then about five years ago, with new leadership of the foundation, there was a real turning point in our approach to grantmaking and s. So the the number of grantmaking areas was reduced down to a more focused number and there was a greater sense of urgency brought to the work. And it was at that time we were also looking at, um, asking ourselves the question Are we really living are our tagline Are we living this commitment to be in a I’m a more just, verdant and peaceful world? Were we truly being just if we were not giving access to everybody to the information on our website? It’s a very introspective discussion that that someone raised Yeah, that, uh, you know, that takes a lot of courage to consider that we may not be living up to our our own tagline, right? Right. So essentially, once that question was answered, way had our marching orders from from leadership, and it was something that I was already aware of and passionate about. And so it just kind of came together really beautifully. Acquaint us with the with the start of the process. How does the accessibility fit into an overall redesigned right? So for us, we actually worked with the Web AIM team to do a scan of our sight. I think that we gave them maybe twenty, twenty to twenty five pages to review. And from that review they created a report. And that report identified all of the areas that were not in compliance with accessibility and essentially ranks them in priority order. And so made it really easy for us to go to the designers and say, Hey, we’ve got all of these issues, These air, the scaled need for each one of them. Let’s incorporate that into the new pages as we design them. Cindy A. Z do that kind of ah evaluation. Where are the standards? But how do we know where they are? Is our cottage is codified somewhere? It absolutely is. So the the World Wide Web consortium that W three c has Web accessibility initiative w ay, I’m going into alphabet soup. No way. Have jargon jail on radio. Okay, okay. Transgress. I will not. So they created the web content, accessibility guidelines and I’m going to throw another one at you. It’s called Would CAG. Right now they’re at version two point. Oh, So you confined the wood. CAG died. Guidelines, Web content, accessibility, eye lines to point out yet so Google it it’LL provide all the technical standards. Therefore principles perceivable, operable, understandable and robust. Each of those principles has a set of essentially success criteria so that you know that you’re meeting what? That what that is. So let me just throw out example so that all content is perceivable. So let’s say that I don’t have vision. How am I going to perceive that content? Well, I’m probably using a screen reader to read the the What’s behind what it is that we see. So if a developer does not put alternative Tex, there’s no way for me to extract the content of that. Let’s say I’m deaf and you’ve got a video. How am I going to perceive that content well. If you have captions that I’m able to get that content, so just very simple things like that. Now you know somewhere a little more complex. It’s not way used to say that accessibility is simple, but as the Web has developed and matured, things are more complicated. But it’s still something that can be achieved when you agree. James. Definitely it’s time for a break. Pursuant. The Art of First Impressions. How to combine Strategy, analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back that is, there a book on donor acquisition. They want you to read it. Check it out. Um, helps you make a smashing first impression with donors. You will find that the listener landing page tony dot m a slash Pursuant capital P for please. You know that Let’s do the live. Listen, love. Let’s I bumped it up. It’s accelerate because my heart’s bursting with love for the live listeners. So it’s going out now. Live love to you. If you are with us, the love goes out. Like I said, it’s Sze being redundant, right? Okay, enough said live love tto listeners. We’re listening now and to those listening by podcast pleasantries to you, the vast majority of our audience so glad that you were with us whatever time. Whatever device, however, non-profit radio fits into your schedule binge or week after week pleasantries to you. Let’s continue with James Kinzer and Cindy Roland. How do we work our way into it? So that the MacArthur Foundation they asked you to evaluate twenty five pages or so and you applied the standards right? Is that something that buy-in organise that small and midsize shop could do on their own? Absolute thing, finding guidelines or the guidelines a kind of technical and the guidelines air absolutely technical. So if you’re not a technical person, you you may go read them, and your eyeballs may spend around head. However, there are lots of places that you can go, I think even just starting understanding. There are lots of introductions to have accessibility. Web dot org’s certainly has one of those. There are others as well on DH. There are tools that are available, of course. Webb has one that’s it’s free for folks to use and other people have to. So I’m not trying to just, you know, talk R R R But if someone were to go to wave and that’s w A v e wave dot web dot org’s, they’d be able to put in a whirl and wave will check for them where they are with the standards now about Yeah, that’s all it takes just Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah So here’s the rub. Only about twenty five or thirty percent of the errors Khun B. Programmatically detected by any look any tool, not just ours. Any of them the rest of them need. They require a human determination of whether or not it meets the guidelines so you could get started. Wave dot web dot or dot org’s absolutely and you know, thie. Other thing that I’m goingto mention about wave is as you look at the errors it and we describe, you know what the what The area is, why it’s important, how you can fix it. And there’s even links to little tutorials that go further in depth about that whole thing. So, to be honest, Wave is used an awful lot by developers and designers as a tool to learn about what it is that they need to be doing Okay, James, what are what are some lessons that some takeaway is that you you can share from the from this redesign? Yeah. I think a really great example of, uh, before and after a people meaning accessibility was the grant search page on our website. When we originally we’re looking at it, it was just the results were all just in a long list, and they were really wide columns of a text. So each line was really long. And as we were going through the redesign process that we recognize that this wasn’t optimized for people with cognitive disabilities. And so what we did is we shorted shortened each entry. What? I’m sorry. What’s the What’s the deficit that that they have that prevents them from reading are seeing longlines? Yeah. What is that? Specifically very questions. So a person with cognitive disabilities, the longer the line of text, the greater the chance. By the time they get to the end of that sentence, they will have forgotten what they read at the beginning. And so, by shortening the line lines, what that means is that they can increase. Is there there retention? Okay. And I will say also, for many folks that are struggling with literacy issues, that notion of them visually wrapping back around if it’s really long, then there they have to visually scan back to the leg left next to the next line. And that can become visually a difficult task, even though it’s not a visual problem problem. But it’s a visual processing problem. OK, alright, So thats the benefit in the redesign was that we took that knowledge. We sat down with the designers, came up with the new layout and moved things into more of a grid pattern. And so what it meant is that the lion lengths were shorter. But then also for typically sighted people, it meant that they could actually see more information on the page but scrolling wherever they’re scroll across. Exactly. So So this is a really great example of how we were addressing accessibility for for one audience. But then it it still had a really significant benefit for everyone else. Yeah, excellent. OK, Tio Cindy’s point earlier about the benefit for all rank. I love that. What else? You got? Another take away. What else have you learned from this whole thing? How long did this take, Let’s say, from the time that you asked Web aim to do the evaluation of twenty five pages, Tio, you felt like okay. I mean, website is never completed. I realize that, but you know, that button eyes a project manager, But until the point where you sat back and said, OK, we’ve pretty much where where I wanted to be back then, right? How long was that time? It was a three year process. Okay, Now MacArthur’s gotta have an enormous mean tens of thousands of pages. I cite you. Remember the number? I think there are a hundred. Two hundred thousand. Okay, but it’s a long front. Yeah, yeah. Okay, but smaller sites not going. I’m not going to be a daunting right. Okay, so another. Please. Another another. I’m trying to think of one of the other pages that we were working on. So one of the other, the significant takeaways is that start wherever you can like before. Five years ago, I really knew very little about accessibility, and I reached out. I took a workshop and overtime working with the designers. I learned a lot more about it. So I think using what resources are available to you. TTO learn is super important. I think it graded another example or take away from the site. Is that because something is a, uh, wait, Just have to make sure that everything that we’re seeing on the side of a CZ typically sighted people is truly consumable buy-in e other person that has a disability. And so when I’m formatting content now, I’m thinking about that. I’m making sure that, uh, was that descriptions that I put in for the photos. Are they going to be clear? Are they in the right format? Uh, it’s it’s, uh, it’s It’s not just a developer issue. It’s a content management meant issue. So I take a lot of responsibility for making sure that, as I’m formatting, that content that that I am formatting with accessibility of mind. And I’d love to just add another. Although I don’t know that this is MacArthur’s experience and you could you could certainly mentioned it is, But I think it’s so critical for folks to understand that web accessibility is not a one and done that. It has to be baked in. You know, you’d mention that you’re never really done with the website. Well, to the extent that accessibility is then part of baked into that process by by virtue of that, you’re never done with accessibility either. One of the things that we see over and over and over again, people will come to us. We’LL work with them. The folks that are on that team get it, they make those changes. But then those folks leave. They go someplace else. And the accessibility problems creep back in because, organizationally, they haven’t shifted the culture. They haven’t created a workflow that is going to sustain accessibility, even at the level of how their purchasing, you know, products, you know, widgets, naps and all that. Are they even asking the question if we buy X and embedded in our site? Is that accessible? How do we, uh, create a cultural change? Yeah, it’s t institutionally, the conscious of accessibility. So that has turned over occurs. It’s not lost weight. What do we do? Well, I think first and foremost you gotta start with a commitment from the top. I mean, if you don’t have those you know, top executives saying in our shop this is something we value and This is something we’re going to monitor every year, every two years, every whatever. We’re going to have a regular way that we look at this and it’s going to be systematic if you don’t do other things that will help sustain it. So, for example, in HR, why would it be that for technical people you wouldn’t routinely put into your job descriptions when you’re hiring that knowledge and skills of Web accessibility is, if not required, at least preferred, because that sends a message out to the people that want to have these jobs. Oh, well, apparently, this is a skill set that I need to acquire. How about purchasing? You know, if if you’re if you’re you’re webber, your other digital materials do rely a lot on the work of others. Let’s say it’s templates. Let’s say it, you know, whatever it happens to be, maybe it’s Ah, um uh, you know Cem donor-centric where you’re using, you know, how is it that you are checking to see the accessibility of the easy way to start is to ask the vendor to make a declaration of how it is that they conform to the current standards of accessibility. There is a thing called and sorry. Here we go again, as long as you define okay, as long as you tell the veep at the voluntary product accessibility template or in version two point Oh, now so don’t accept anyone that sends you a one point no document, but it’s very common to act in your in your requests and your solicitations say that you’re going to require that what you procure, what you purchase or acquire conforms toe tag, too double double and that the vendor either submit a V pat or some other kind of declaration. Or sometimes, folks, we’re just going right to give us a third party. A report of where where you stand with accessibility. Now, all is not lost if the vendor has some problems. It’s not that you don’t by the product you want, but you have a negotiation about what’s your roadmap for accessibility. If if we put money down, how long will it be in your development process before weakening exact that art that the stuff we’re hosting is going to be accessible, You know, it’s three three months of its three years, you know that may give you pause. Okay, okay. Very good. Uh, I’m gonna go back and underscore something that that Cindy mentioned earlier and that that’s leadership. Energy is welcome. So? So I just feel like it’s important to underscore that that that getting buy-in from leadership makes this process infinitely more simple, like it would be with anything and any significant initiative. Right? And And I think the turning point for the MacArthur Foundation was truly that that moment where we were looking at our tagline like I mentioned before. Ah, and for for people who are organizations that are concerned about how do I get buy-in? I think that that’s the easiest way at a mission driven organization is to look at that tack line and say, How does this pair with accessibility? And how can we, uh, make that argument? What? What case would you bring to your CEO? When you are, your consciousness is raised. Uh, how do you How do you raise? But he raised the issue up above. Yeah, I think that, uh, once I were educated Ah, a little bit more on it. I would go to leadership and and say, Look, this is this is kind of like Rex of our presentation later today is you know, it’s not just addressing accessibility for people with disabilities. It’s truly it’s truly improving for everyone, for everyone, right? And it’s our It’s embodied in our mission way just haven’t been conscious, right of of how our mission intersects with accessibility. Right? So it’s just making those two points connect. Okay. Okay, um, Cindy’s Web team did a evaluation of one hundred one hundred sites. Yeah, we were just We were just doing a quick little scan of Of where the non-profit world is in terms of accessibility. How did you pick one hundred? What we did is we went to a website top non-profits, and they had a lovely little list of the top one hundred non-profits. And of course, you know what does top mean, right? You know, But we took their list is probably names that we would roll recognize for one reason or another by budget or employees. Eyes are exactly yeah, annual fund-raising. Whatever. Okay. And and for me, the purpose was just to just to get a sense of what’s happening. So we just landed on the home page of each of those now the rationale is that, you know, as we well know, home pages get the most attention home pages get the most. Is that still true? Now, a lot of times I’ve had guests say that not to be overly focused on your home page because a lot of people coming in directly looking for the content that’s buried in your side, your sight because of because of a link that they follow, right? So for those people that have a direct link, you’re absolutely right. But if somebody doesn’t know the organisation, it doesn’t know the content that they want. How are they going to get in? They’re going to get in through your friends. They’re explored. So they’ve heard your name and they want to, right? Exactly. Exactly. So let’s say I’m a, you know, a family. And I’m feeling particularly philanthropic. I’m going to be I’m gonna be rooting around here looking at you know, where might I want to, you know, engage in sin, flandez. Okay, so we’re gonna learn about. So we went in and we we ran the wave on one hundred pages and do so when you’re when you’re back in Utah State. Utah State University. Yeah, this. So do you all do away and there are there six of you? I made it that way. I wish we didn’t run the way. Wave Runner. Okay. Yeah, You don’t You’re not doing that at heart. And I will take it on. Okay. Okay. Well, we’ll do that. Bring that back back east from here. It’s back. He’s okay. Based in New York. So it’s strange to say he’s for Utah. Okay. Wey came at us dahna aggression. We came out up from his acronym, But you’re right. We should be thinking about into a wave. Think maybe every Friday. That’s good. Alright, Anything. So we were running it through the way and way were only looking at those items that were again programmatically detectable. So how can the machine that hogan this after her to say that? Only thirty percent you said? Oh, yeah. Isn’t twenty five or thirty men are right in that vision. Indestructible Because we knew he didn’t have the time to do, you know, an in depth, blah, blah, blah. So again, we’re not looking at accessibility. What we’re looking at are errors, problems. That’s thes air. This is the low hanging fruit. This is the stuff that if you’re considering accessibility, you’re probably going to be nailing these things, right? Okay, because the things that are harder, those things that require human interaction and detective in deduction sadly, of the hundred, there were only three pages that didn’t have programmatically detectable arika cloudgood. So ninety seven percent of that sample and again, we don’t know to what extent that generalizes to the rest of the pages blah, blah, blah. But these are big organizations. These are, however measured these are And and I mean my heart just sunk because I thought, if there is ever if there’s ever a sector of our society that should be aware of this and working towards this, this should be the non-profit world. These air, the folks that are you know, the the standard carriers for lots of ethical causes and equity and rights of people with disabilities is certainly one of one of those. So I’m very sad to report that the data are that bad and we we are going to follow up, and we may end up by doing a much larger look at non-profits, not just home pages, but you know, scanning. You know, main domains and looking at thousands of pages, you probably need some funding for that. Well, you know, it’s always it’s always very helpful. If there’s anyone out there that would like to sponsor a deep look into this, give me a holler, OK? Our audiences, non-profits. Yeah, I’m not I’m not sure, but, uh, okay. Noble noble cause and yeah, disappointing. But I will say the stuff that work, the stuff that we did, you know, that was just I found internally little pot of money. We just did stuff We do stuff like that out of, you know, anyway, because it’s just part of it’s part of our mission to make sure that we’re getting information out about the state of accessibility. Does Webb aimed Is there a way I am? Stand for something? Well, it it really does. It’s the The initial project back in nineteen ninety nine was keeping Web accessibility in mind. So we have the web. Aye, aye. Accessibility in mind. Okay. And that’s the one thing we want. We want folks to keep a web accessibility in mind as they’re considering their content as they’re developing design frameworks. is They’re thinking about their coding on all levels. So this is all well, initially, consciousness raising way. Need to be aware, APS and then we can go toe wave dot web, a web dot organ, and we can begin their right. James, we got, like, thirty seconds, so I’m gonna give you the the wrap up. What would you like to leave people with? Yeah. Ah, a few things. I think the first one is that that accessibility applies to everybody and, uh, take the opportunity to learn about it. To do some research, to take a workshop, started any level on and then you can begin addressing it in many different ways. There there are small steps, medium steps, deep involved, development steps. So, really, it’s it’s it’s completely pardon of fun accessible to everybody. He is James Kinzer, senior associate senior associate, the digital Communications at the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation on DH. She is Cindy Rolling, director of Web aim at Utah State University. James, Wendy, Thanks so much. Thank you, Cindy. I’m sorry, but, uh, you’re listening to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Like all our interviews here. This one is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’ve got a free webinar coming up. It’s on April sixteenth. Tips and tricks for your nine ninety. The best part of this is using your nine ninety as a marketing tool to do some PR for you in various sections, including Narrative, but they’re going to talk about other uses for your nine ninety. It regarded regarding PR and promo. Okay, because it’s so widely read, it’s so widely available. Ah, if you can’t watch the live, you can watch the archive of their webinar weather cps dot com Click seminars, then Goto April. Now, time for Tony. Take two grieving part of your plan to giving program. As I was grieving, my well still am. My father in law’s death came very sudden in Ah, late March, and, um, it occurred to me that grieving is part of your plan e-giving program. And that happens when relatives who contact you because a donor to your organization has died and so you can’t expect those relatives to be at their best. UM, they’re going to be a little gonna be on edge. You know it’s there, not goingto be contacting you the day after the death, or even probably within a week. But when they do, they’re still grieving and you know it’s it’s likely to be a spouse or a child that’s the most common s. So it’s it’s someone close. And when it happens, you wantto handle them appropriately and keep things simple for them have a simple process to make them jump through hoops. I’ve got a bunch of ideas on managing and working with the grieving relatives when you do hear from them in my video, and that is at twenty martignetti dot com. Now let’s go to Oliver Delgado, also from the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference, and this is go bi lingual. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. That’s the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the Convention Center, Portland, Oregon, and this interview, like all our nineteen NTC interviews, is sponsored by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me now is Oliver Delgado. He is director of marketing and communications at Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles. Oliver, Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. My pleasure. It’s great to be here in Portland’s Great to be here with you. I agree with you and, well, not that it’s great to be here with me, but I agree that it is fun to be important. Important is a wonderful city. It’s my first time here, so I’m taking it all and so much to see. And really, in the short amount of time I see a lot of drink through, it’s started Edible Food and Drink City. I started last night. I got very lucky. There’s an amazing restaurant in my hotel, and food was fantastic. Where was the food? It’s Ah, guess. Contemporary Mexican American fusion. Okay, Yeah. Super cool Down in the Pearl District, I went Tio when I first got here first night I went Teo, I’ve always heard that Israeli food is very good. I want a place called shoot Shalom Y’All y’all like y’All I love come over. Yeah, yeah, that’s not a Finnish border. Zoho are Israeli word. It’s your long Y’All Yeah, was X there have to one in the north east, their one southeast and southwest. I think it’s funny you mention that actually just saw this really cool report on Israeli food and considering that’s a fairly recent kind of evolution and food, considering the history behind the country and how it’s really a fusion of so many different regions. And so they’re taking so many different steps to just create an identity for it. Which means the food is just amazing. So I’d love to baby check it out if you recommend it. Although I do. I had a roasted eggplant, which was outstanding. Their home is their to bully both very oath. Oh, a light, a light and tasty falafel. Very nice. Dunaj dahna like a dark brown. Not a golden battle darker brown. That was incredible. You had me at recommend Shalom. Y’All All right, but we’re here to talk about sabelo Espanol. That’s right. Expand your reach and impact by going bilingual. Why should we? What if we’re not serving a non-profit? We’re not serving. Ah ah, Spanish community, Spanish speaking or Mexican speaking community. Why should we, uh, should we abila spaniel sure this is really specific to Los Angeles, and I think for us going bilingual has to do a lot with sustainability on and being able to reach more people in an organic way, and it’s not limited. I think Spanish for us is the case study. It’s the example. But I think if you’re living in a major metropolitan city or not, we see that there’s migration patterns across the country from all parts of the world. So it may not be Spanish. It could be Russian. It could be Chinese. It could be Hindi. It could be Farsi. There always be theirs. There’s probably a secondary language being spoken in certain communities and cities across the country. So when you look at those demographics and you look at those shifts and statistics, how do you tap into those alternative language and communities essentially with your organization? If the impact or the goal is to be sustainable, to be far reaching toe have longevity. It’s about reinvention. It’s about adapting. It’s about finding different ways to use different tools to reach people. So be aware of the demographics in in the area that you are serving absolutely and be responsive? Absolutely. And I think just speaking factually, the US eventually will be a minority majority country. So it’s twenty, twenty, twenty five, I believe so. I believe by twenty twenty five. So you know, we’re at twenty nineteen, and it gives you a really good idea, especially a lot of organizations who are toying with the idea of employing a secondary language or even a third of how to start doing it connecting with communities. And that’s what I’LL be talking about today is the multi layered approach from really identifying a language to identify your audience. Is your media lists your brochures or collateral? The programming, the PR, the communications of community relations, your digital presence? Everything has to be intertwined so that your message, or rather, your intent, has has legs. How do we make this case to leadership before we get there? Buy-in. Before we can go ahead, it’s so we can start spending money. Sure, it’s looking at your, especially from a fund-raising point of view. Are you maximizing what you’re able to raise when you have an event when you have a gala? If you have, if its an electronic of it? A letter appeal for end of your donations or a seasonal campaign. Uh, whatever our whichever mechanisms you used to fund-raising Are you maximizing its potential? Right? And I think that’s the lens that we look at. Eleven l. A. It’s not only the fund-raising but the friendraising, because our impact is creating, and our intent is creating stronger, more connected communities through the yards, and it’s kind of a dual approach. We also need to be ever support the yards fiscally for us to be able to get our mission. So it’s a little more about what Levitt Pavilion does. Sure, absolutely. Levitt Pavilion Los Angeles is It’s part of a national Levitt network, and Levin Foundation does incredible work in twenty six cities across the country, with the mission of creating stronger, more connected communities through the arts and specifically free live music. So throughout the country, you’LL see cities and towns come alive every single summer, respectively, between twenty five and fifty concerts. Every Levitt pavilion that’s designated as a permanent pavilion has the task. And really, though these air structures, these air structures, Yeah, absolutely. And so we’re all tasked with creating an offering fifty free concerts every single summer, and we do so by away of a public private partnership where we partner with the city departments in the respective city that were in what the foundation helps provide some seed money. But also the most important piece is getting the community buy-in because at the end of the day, if you don’t have the commuters support for something that is intended to serve them, what’s the point? So what’s incredible about Levin Potvin Los Angeles, is that it came at such an incredible time in MacArthur Park, which is a historic park in Los Angeles. Jimmy Webb dahna Summer, Right? So they were talking about this epic park that was once the premiere vacation oasis. The Shabelle is a of Los Angeles, and over the years, over the course of one hundred years of transition from being an incredibly wealthy neighborhood to one that then became a creative enclave, really boho chic, think Lower East Side Manhattan in the seventies and eighties and then continues in transition as resource is stopped coming to the neighborhood, especially city services. You know the migration patterns, especially as the civil wars in Central America really left, warn Torrente lands and people seeking refuge, and we saw an influx of Central American refugees into this specific neighborhood. But it happened so quickly that the density literally just expanded within maybe a few years, to the point where the neighborhood, because it was such a wealthy enclave, the sing the one single family homes had to be slapped together and carved into multiple family. When and you can imagine what that looks like, right, it’s, you know. And then we saw this very specific example. MacArthur Park went from the shop Elyse Tomb or oven, Ellis Island. And it’s incredible to know that Levitt Pavilion now and where we are. We are going into a thirteenth season we launch in two thousand seven in MacArthur Park. We have reached about five hundred thousand people coming through this place. So it’s we’re moving the needle, and it’s about exploring different ways to do so. Let’s talk about some of the challenges of doing bilingualism or trilingual is you said. You know, it could be depending on your demographics. What are some of the obstacles we’re gonna have to overcome? Sure, I think some of the obstacles, I think, just from a logistical point of view, it’s the long term investment is making sure that shouldn’t organization, especially at non-profit, commit to a plan of incorporating a second language into their marketing. And as part of their brand identity is identifying, Do they want to build an in house team to manage this every day and what that looks like? Or do you outsource it? And is it more of a campaign kind of a seasonal initiative? But the issues you run into that is continuity. When you have different hands kind of touching, OH, are influencing or molding the ingredients, you may get different results. What are some of these ingredients were talking about? You don’t meddle with different communications channels. So all the different, especially the communication channels, because everything has to be interlinked from your E blast from your website to your social tio, literally your printed materials, your hyre rabbis, radio, TV billboard. Everything has to be a cohesive marketing unit, even down to the programme in the community relations, right the way we conduct those meetings and identify and select and create a lineup, it’s creating a path for all of that to be connected through a single lens, you got to take a break. Tell us it’s the long stream of passive revenue because you get fifty percent of the fee. When cos you refer process their credit and debit card transactions through Tello’s, check out the video, then refer companies to the video if they’re still interested. They found the video interesting, then asked if they would consider making the switch and then you contact, Tell us and put the two of them together. It’s all in the video at the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us for that long stream of passive revenue. Now back to Oliver Delgado. There’s gotta be more to this. I’m sure they’re then then just the language. You have to. You have to understand the culture of the the needs, the frustrations of the people in the community that you’re now trying to reach out to. It’s more than just speaking their language. Correct. You need to understand what what they’re about. Absolutely, and that is really That was the foundation of what Levitt Pavilion sought to do, and that’s create organic ties in the community. And that’s the first already start faith communities really everywhere, anywhere where the doors opened. So for us it was because of MacArthur Park, in the way that it’s structured it, surrounded by schools, churches, neighborhood organizations and businesses. It’s a very dense neighborhood. You were talking about eighty two hundred thousand people in about six square miles, right? So we’re talking about almost like the density of Manhattan, right? So I think that made it easy for us and being able to reach more people quickly. But also, it means that we have three more strategic and how you developed that plan, right? So the schools, the faith based organizations, you touch them all. You have to be able to be open, open, open toe, learning open to learning. And really, you know, the cultural nuances Just because, you know, blind ex culture is so vibrantly divers in itself, you know, from Mexico to Central America, Teo, even South America, the language changes so much that you have to be adaptable and be mindful that, you know, different words mean different things in different countries. So employing you know, the formality informal, the presentation. But ultimately is the trust it going in with an open heart and open arms so that people understand that it’s a dialogue not so much a speech critical. Otherwise, you’re not gonna build trust. Correct. You’LL have a meeting and xero and nothing correct, I think from it. So for Levitt Pavilion, Los Angeles one of our fundamental tools really is our Community Advisory Council. And this is a coalition comprise of principles residents, business owners, different organization and community leaders that acted one as our sound board for potential sponsors, for just bouncing ideas on artist to come to the stage, but also to get their eyes and ears on the ground learn from them directly. What’s happening in the neighborhood that we should be mindful of should be reflective love. So you can invite community leaders in the community you’re trying to approach to an advisory committee and say, You know, this is not a not a pro forma counsel. We really want your want your input. We want your advice. That’s right. We yes, we do want your connections also correct. We need them to reach the community that you’re now serving correct, and then for us, it’s about creating the space. And so everyone has a seat at the table. Yeah. Okay. You, uh, you planning talking something about developing your marketing lists? That’s right. Best practices for developing marketing list? Sure, Absolutely. So for eleven Pavilion, Los Angeles, again, we develop our English language baseless, which means that everyone on that list has opted in when they signed on up for a concert from ours weepie to get reminders of certain shows they had option of being about to receive information in English or in Spanish. So once we get that information, they’re actually collated in that way. So the English sign ups go to one lesson in Spanish sign ups go to another, and then we target those specific list with specific language newsletters. And so that way nothing is cut out. Nothing is impacting away where you’re lessening the content or, you know, undercutting it you’re presenting. If it’s for the weekend of concerts, is providing a glimpse of what’s to come. But also who are the community partners who are the sponsors who are the different? What are the different pieces? Making that specific show so unique? So for us is being able to deliver that message in a timely way, but also easy to follow. Easy to read, as the kids say, making a very chill right, making it approachable. I’m just easy to digest. OK, anything else but best practice Wai’s best practices. I mean, I have a whole list. It just depends on how you sometime. Absolutely so. If we were to look at labbate putting Los Angeles we, the first thing we had to do is identify our audiences. And so we know that we had the task of incorporating and reaching the local community of West Lake. But then, looking at what makes our work possible. And that’s then we have our sponsors, our community partners, thie elected officials, kind of the periphery supporting cast that plays a crucial role. So identifying those audiences that helps us figure out how we present our information. From there, it was creating, enduring in on. We’re going to present our secondary language in an informal way or the informal Spanish, right? So you, you know, quick Spanish lesson. If you haven’t reverses the form, correct, you have the to form and then you have those dead form, which can be as different as a swimsuit versus a power suit. And that’s how different the communication ring communication can come across. So for us, we’re identifying that informal old home and then identifying the in house team. So that’s myself and a couple of associates where we create every single day opportunities for our bilingual approach to have legs. So through our social writing, different mechanisms to make sure that that’s observed. Um, you can’t you can’t outsource. This is you mentioned earlier like you can outsource it on what kind of what kind of consultant freelance or are you looking for? Well, we don’t because I’m not, you know? Yeah, sure, would one. What would one would be looking for? Absolutely. I think the aforementioned when you figure out your audiences and you figure out what tone you want to take is finding people who specialize in that specific thing in that culture and that culture, because ultimately this person is without you knowing or wanting is your surrogate right in the communities in just written and spoken word. So it’s how do you essentially create this opportunity for someone to learn your voice or create your voice in a way that’s organic to you and is possible for you to continue past their involvement with organization on a consultant basis. So again it’s created for digital presence. For us is massive because that’s the way that we reach more people. So the website we have when you go to our website, you have the ability of hovering and clicking on the English side to get all the information in English and then hovering over to the other side of cooking the Spanish button. Everything goes into Spanish, but the most crucial thing and this goes back to the house human capital. And that’s when you click over to the Spanish. The’s are all handwritten translations were not running it through a filter. It’s not a plug Google translate. Now Google translate these air hand rin translations because we want to present the same level of enthusiastic, community oriented and accessible information the way we do in English. Same way in Spanish. Okay, Yeah, And so that weaves into social media that we into the electron newsletters. It goes into the brochures or collateral, your swag, your videos, your programming, which is fundamental, right? Yeah, let’s talk about some events. So live events. How do you make those bilingual? Absolutely. So what’s really cool about labbate Pope in Los Angeles again, we we’ve bilingual that that bilingual asking to everything we do. So when you come onto the Levitt Lawn, you’LL see a massive led wall, a Jumbotron, if you will, and it displays real time information from set list to the vendors selling food or merchandise document partners. Any special announcements or recognitions all is per presented visually in English and Spanish, right? So there’s that step. And then there’s another layer, which is really cool is that we have emcees. Every show was the last summer, was emceed by a bilingual professional from local influencers. Podcast Media photo there. So they’re speaking in both. So they speak both languages. They’LL say two or three sentences in English, and then they’LL say it in Spanish. That’s correct. And so and this emcee not only helps narrow rate the experience for level, especially for new comers, new visitors, but it helps really set the tone of the excitement so that what is written can now have an auditory base and support, and so from commercials, as we call them to prompts from even two no smoking and picking up trash or even promised to donate on venmo or through our buckets. It’s providing that accessibility both in English and Spanish. Our sign Ege Everything is in English and Spanish in case it should the led well go out Should the sound go out and emcees can’t speak, we actually have actual signs that display the same information. And then when it goes to our actual advertising, which is placed beyond you know, our neighborhood and in Westlake and goes across the city very targeted for certain neighborhoods so that we funnel in and really reach demographics you’LL see that the billboards are staggered you’LL see English and Spanish side by side and you’LL see it for Rose and Rose and the whole point there is again presenting information at once, especially considering that you have short amount of time. Someone’s driving down the street is that you have seconds and his you know, we may have a little more time with her at a red light. Ah, and our goal there is hopefully by the end of that, you probably expanded your Spanish vocabulary. But at minimum, you know that there are fifty free concerts coming to MacArthur Park from June first two September first twenty nineteen. Time for our last break text to give you diversify your revenue by adding mobile giving. It’s not only for disasters, it’s not only for small dollar donations, it’s not on ly through the phone bill. It does not need to be through the phone bill. There are different ways of doing it that can make the donations larger. You could find out all about what text to give. Does ah eliminate some of the misconceptions you may have all by texting NPR to four four, four nine nine nine. We’ve got several more minutes for go Bi lingual. We still have some time left together. What? Absolutely, What else you want to talk about? Best, Maybe more. Best practices around the list building the membership. I’m sorry, the marketing marketing lists? Absolutely no. So I think what? Ah, very big piece, I think, fundamentally is the fund-raising. I think that’s a lens that we’re also in a new venture for us in the Spanish speaking community because we haven’t seen a culture of philanthropy and this specific neighborhood, because again we mentioned its transition, and it’s currently ah, low income community. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t create it. It just means that you make it more accessible, Easier to tap into or participate so means lower dollar fundraisers, but nonetheless, on a continuous basis. So that one people know that we need their support, but too, they can participate. How do you How do you get contact info for people who attend concerts? Sure thing s o our web. So we have kind of like a multi pronged approach. So the digital phase is on our website. There. We have a third party plug in O R. Rather service that helps present every single concert so that you can say All right, great. These are the fifty shows I’m gonna click on one, and then it asked youto ours VP, you put in your email, you select which language you’d like to receive information in, and then we’re able to, you know, grab, you know, capture that information. And then we have our community relations team that has a presence across so many events across the city that then they are actually physically collecting emails. How do they What do they say? Somebody. So they they’re walking among the audience before the show starts. Yeah, eso business, eh, Externally from our site. So if they’re out of community event, what happens? Oh, I’m sorry. He’s a community, not let us. So we have to go out. So you have tables. That’s correct. So let’s say a festival year are already all those things. You know, our swag are very appealing, so that makes it easy to bring people over. So that’s one way of getting emails. Two on the lawn again. We have our info booth, right? Very much very branded info, booth, English and Spanish information equipped with volunteers and staff. They’re also bilingual, so they’re trained cultural sensitivity, language, sensitivity. And again, that’s another way that we collect information. Because if you want to get some water, if you want to get a brochure, if you want to get a tote bag, you want to get a hat. You want to get sticker whatever it is. Once you’re there, you’re probably more likely to try to get more. You want to get more information because you’re not only receiving information, but you’re experiencing what our brand and what our mission is. Okay, I like your first point about being out in the community, not just waiting for people to call, and you don’t know that. Do you need to go out to like street fairs are great idea. That’s that’s crucial. And the thing with us is that we we want to reach everyone. So we’re all parts of the cities in different neighborhood and ethnic enclaves. Just because we want to make sure that one Level eight continues to put inclusivity at the forefront of everything that we do, too, that we make that earnest attempt of creating this organic, trusting relationships by those connections and three a letting people know there’s an incredible way to connect with fellow Angelenos and a freeway and get quality entertainment because we offer both local and international talent. And so, in a situation where L. A is an expensive city and you know, let’s say a family of four to six can’t afford four hundred dollars worth of concert tickets, right? You’re the alt correct, and so tickets, food, beverages easily. You can spend five hundred dollars in the night well, versus coming over to the level L A stage bringing your food. You know, it’s kind of a cook outside you can bring your blanket, bring your food, bring the whole family we have. Actually, we have one really cool Levitt ear, as we call them, of very staunch supporter of of ours. And her name is Nora. And every single summer she celebrates her birthday at eleven Ellen, and she brings out forty people for this, right? And it’s one of those things where it’s a great equalizer. Everyone can come whether it’s water, whether it’s juice, whether it’s a sandwich cake, they’re all coming out. Creating this potluck environment and enjoying the music and adding to the vibe at eleven Really a magical experience. We still we still actually have about two minutes there so together. So what more you’re going to share with your audience that we haven’t talked about sure that we haven’t talked about that That’s applicable for them, not about what we’ve done a lot of absolutely. I think it is just exploring the different ways that you know folks and get involved. I think media is going to be a very big point that I’m going to drive in because it’s important that people realize that should they adventure out into a second language it’s creating again those organic relationships or media. So I have conversations with Spanish media where my conversations are completely in Spanish. Right? That’s important because again you’re meeting them on their turf. I have conversations with England English media partners where everything is in English and then I have newer engagements or rather, interactions where it’s tze bilingual, right? It’s kind of reflective, right? Especially if I’m working with Gen z millennial media outlets or, you know, social media entities. It’s creating that really cool, conversational direct dialogue with them and meeting them on their turf so that when we meet them where they are absolutely so again, it helps frame the experience. But two, you know, people will be more likely to try to get involved with you if if they see that you’re making a really earnest attempt, you know, connect to their audience is that the same is travelling to another country, correct. When I think when when foreigners see that you’re you’re making an attempt to learn to use the language, your pronunciation isn’t so good. You may be the cabin. The vocabulary is not a robust, but you know it’s over between pointing and attempting and, you know, you’re you’re outreaching to them in their homeland. Correct. They’re going. They’re going to try to meet you halfway. That’s right, Right? With a little, you know, some variation of of their their English. That’s right. And what’s really same same. Exactly. And that’s and then ultimately, hyre one end this our programming, our programming, obviously, is our main product. And so we present ah, fifty percent of our baseline concert. So twenty five shows are going to be Latin genres. Right? And we’re talking about not only the cumbias and the betting is in sauces, but the acid jazz, the hip hop, the rnb thie Scott, the reggae, right? Just exploring the different visions auras of Spanish language music and presenting in away sametz correct where where they are again, understanding the culture understanding, but also helping people expand their musical pallets right there. Right, Gobi out. So the so the so The marine gay listener is getting exposed to Scott. Correct? Correct. We gotta leave it there. You’re sure? Alright. Is Oliver over Delgado? That’s right. Director of marketing and communications at the eleven a civilian Los Angeles. This is non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit Technology Conference This interview. All of them at ninety ninety Sea brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact Thanks so much for being with us next week. Grit, succeeding as a woman in Tech and how to create an implement. Great ideas both from nineteen Auntie Si. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna Slash Pursuing by Wagner’s Deepa is guiding you beyond the numbers When you’re cps dot com. Bye, Tell us Credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York Thanks for that information, Scotty. There with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking Alternate network e-giving Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative sports feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Thie Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at eight p. M. Eastern Time. As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness. Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant. And on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on Thursdays at twelve noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant. Our Awakening Humanity. Thursday’s twelve noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network.

Nonprofit Radio for October 26, 2018: HTTPS & Does Your Website Suppress Giving?

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Ben Byrne & Katherine White: HTTPS
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Rachel Clemens: Does Your Website Suppress Giving?
Rachel Clemens is concerned that your website is holding you back from raising all the money you can. Are you confusing donors? Overloading them? She’s chief marketing officer at Mighty Citizen. (Also recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference.) It’s website day!

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with strep. Oh, simba, leah if i had to read that you missed today’s show working virtual we talk through the issues encountered when managing remote staff technological, generational, emotional measurement, recruiting and retaining. Our panel is heather martin from inter faith family and alice hendricks with jackson river. I was recorded at eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference and map your data to your audiences. Feed your folks the data they crave. Courtney clarke and david mask arena have identified five audience types and their data needs she’s with forum one and he’s fromthe conrad and hilton foundation that’s also recorded at eighteen. Auntie si, tony, take two who’s on first, we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising david driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com bye! Tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Here’s working virtual welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we’re coming to you from the convention center in new orleans second interview of the second day of our coverage all our ntcdinosaur interviews are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests right now are heather martin, ceo of inter paid family, and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. Heather alice, welcome. Thank you. Welcome to non-profit radio. What have you wanted to be here ? How’s ? The conference going for you ladies ? Great. Have you done ? Yeah. Excellent. Okay, great. Next one. That goes good. Superlative. Have you done your session yet ? We did. We were on yesterday morning. Okay. So, it’s all relaxing now ? Right now, we’re just partying. Drinks last night. Exactly. Okay, all right. Your workshop topic is working virtual attracting and managing the best talent. I’m sure we have stats on how many organs non-profits have virtual employees. Or at least what the trends are. It’s it’s obviously growing. It’s really growing wouldn’t be here. And not only in the nonprofit world in the for-profit world as well, and especially in tech. Yeah, okay, absolutely it’s becoming it because of the technology that can enable easily to work from home, your chat technologies, videoconferencing, it’s become a thing and everyone is doing it now on exploring whether it works for their organizations a lot. Let me dive into the word, everyone not to quibble with you at all, but i was thinking generationally, are there fifty and sixty some things that are comfortable working, being virtual ? Not well, maybe we’ll get to whether they’re comfortable having virtual employees. They will get to that. My voice is cracked like i’m fourteen get that, but how about being virtual employees themselves ? Are they comfortable ? I’m over fifty, so include myself in that ? Are we comfortable doing that ? Or, you know, i think it actually depends on the organization and it’s really dependent on the organization making the employees comfortable, and so i’m not sure i don’t know if you have any stats, but i don’t know from an age perspective, there’s a very good question about an older generation being comfortable having virtual employees under the managing them, however, as being the virtual employee, i think it’s all about how the organisation sets it up. Okay. Excellent. All right, so that there’s promised them for those fifteen. Sixty something ? Absolutely. Okay. Okay, let’s, talk about it. Since since we’re skirting around it, how about comfort or discomfort with having employees being virtual when you’re over fifty ? So i again, i i think that there might be an age discrepancy in the comfort, but i also think it’s just personality, and i’m finding that when i talked to a lot of people who are looking to work virtual and they’re asking me, what can i do to go to my manager, my supervisor and quote unquote, sell them on me working virtually my answer to them is find out what the resistance is. There is part of the resistance as we’ve always done it this way i need to see my employees to know that they’re working. And how do you get around that ? Some of the key things that we talked about in our session are setting very clear goals and making sure that those goals are being met. But let’s, go to alice talk to flush out the gold. Gold setting a little. Yeah, i mean, i think that there’s not that much difference in terms of goal setting in terms of accountability for delivery, bols, that you’re supposed to be doing so used that the real issue is communication making sure you have a structure where there’s frequent communication and proof that you’re doing the delivery ble. So you’re measured not on a punch clock style of i get to work at nine. And i leave at five. And therefore i must have worked during that eight hour period you’re measured based on what is the work you were set out to do. And did you actually do that work in the time period ? I said i would do it. So if you’re a project manager are working on a program area you work with your you work with your supervisor on here, the things that i’m going to get done at a particular time. And if that’s not done that’s ah, that that could be a concerned that’s a problem, but that’d be a problem in the non workplace too, but rather than time. It’s mostly based on work product. Okay, okay. So that should apply even if you don’t have any virtual, i think one of the things we found is that working virtually is this, or managing virtually is the same as managing in an office. But you just have to be much more intentional about what you’re doing. Much more intentional about your communication, understanding that you’re not gonna have that water cooler conversation, that someone’s not going over here. Something and understand where you are in a project and b ready to communicate with those people who are not physically in the office. But the management and the psychology of the management is very similar. Okay, it’s, very valuable, you know, and make explicit. Yeah. How about attracting people, teo a virtual or attracting the right talent so that we’re comfortable that they’re gonna work in this work environment ? What do you, what you thought ? Well, there’s. Two thoughts on that that i have one is what one is that your talent pool is the entire country or world, should you see fit ? And there are wonderfully talented people in places that aren’t in the city or town in which your organization is located, and it gives you this ability to recruit from a wide place. And you can also hyre incredibly talented people from who have a wonderful life style. In a less cost of in my organization, we have people who live in a lower cost of living state than washington, d c where were based, and that allows me to provide a living wage and for my employees in that. But the other thing is just you, when you’re recruiting, you have to be very mindful of the interview process, and i think one of the things we talked about in our session was helping people figure out who these folks, how well they’ll respond to working virtually how do you do that in an interview ? Yeah, who’s best with that, heather so so some of the things that that we recommend, some of the things that we recommend is number one, we use technology as a tool to enhance communication in a virtual environment. So sometimes you’re using video comp, renting just for a regular meeting, and you’re talking through instant messenger and there’s other ways you’re using technology. So in the interview process, i always recommend that people use the technology that you’re going to require those employees to be using during their job if they can’t do an interview on skype or zoom or appearance and it’s very uncomfortable, it’s not to say that that might not be a good employee for you, but you have to be aware that there might need to be some training or development on that tool for them and no going. Into that is important when you’re hiring that person, and if you see generally a discomfort with technology that’s a pretty big red flag, or or or a red flag that you might need to overcome or that person’s not right for the position, and then the other question is some positions just don’t lend themselves to working virtually, and you have to be aware of that when you’re hiring also what are from ? Well, one of the easiest ones that we look at it if you’re an office manager and you’re managing the physical office days, it’s really difficult to be virtual when you need thio notice that there’s a crack in the ceiling where the vendor needs toe, you know, deliver something and be their way. We don’t have a tool for measuring the coffee level. Zack remotely happen. And now there’s an app for that you can probably it’s time for a break pursuing they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They want you to see this because they’ve taken the secrets from the fastest growing startups and applied those to your non-profit it’s free as all the pursuant resource is, are you accustomed to that ? Come on, it doesn’t even bear saying it’s on the listener landing page that’s at do you know where tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now back to working virtual or any others that stand out to you ? I think it depends on the industry and what the job you’re doing. If you’re someone who does intake or you have to be there to welcome people into the office, you need someone physically there. There may be hybrids where sometimes people could work in the office and sometimes people could work from home. And i think thinking this through before you moved to a virtual environment or virtual job for that specific role is ki you can’t just say, ok, tomorrow we’re just gonna go virtual zoho alice, how do you how do you create this environment ? Gonna be hospitable ? Toe virtual ? I mean it’s all about culture. You have to create a culture where everyone is communicating well with each other, where people know what the expectation is on response times of communication has got to start at the top. It has to start a willingness that you absolutely to accommodate virtual employees. Okay, so it starts there and how does that how does the ceo trickling down ? You adhere to it. So rather than walking from my office into someone else’s office and telling them what i think they should know that maybe two other people who aren’t physically, they’re also need to know i will do that on a slack channel, for example. So i’ll use an instant messenger chat program, and i’ll put them all on the channel and talk to them all together at once, even though you were the mark, even if that’s the situation. Yeah, because it requires amount of discipline because you don’t want to leave people out. The interstitial conversation that happens at the water cooler can also be done virtually and that’s pretty important, too. Okay. All right. We’re going to get the tools you mentioned. Slack, slack channel. Is that that it’s ? All okay, okay. A chat. It’s. Simple chance a chance. A chance for you. You’re over my head, but i’m trainable. Alt-right i could be a virtual employees trust way. Mind of some technology challenges there, but we could get there. I’ll be there immediately. Got the radio stuff ? Yeah. I’m very good at that. I mean, i got knobs and everything in front of buttons and all. I don’t know what they do. Okay, what else ? Uh, anything else about creating the environment, making inhospitable ? I think some of the things that seem or some of the other things are making sure that your remote employees have the tools, whether it’s, the technology or even a monitor to go along with that laptop that you’ve given them because some some people who go into a new job, they’re given a laptop, they say work from home and it’s not as easy as just is your home office conducive and being able to help them think through what are the things that they need to set up in a virtual environment to make them successful and effective at what they’re doing. We talked about it a little bit about security and knowing what the security measures are. You can’t go into a coffee shop and work from your computer. Number one. Are you on the y fire you on the public wifi ? Are you on a virtual private network ? Are you using your hot spot ? You’ve to go the bathroom and your computer’s sitting in starbucks do you leave it there and ask the person next youto watch your computer while you go to i mean, we set policies around these things, especially in organizations that have a lot of regulations on data and accessibility for their information. These are things you have to think about when you’re creating a virtual environment. Okay ? It could be hip, baby what’s the credit card p c m p c i b c i okay, what do you do when you’re at starbucks alone ? You’re on you’re on a vpn virtual private network ? Yeah, you have to go the bathroom. You gotta close up. You use the diaper changing table in and you pull it down in the restroom and put your laptop on that. Take care of your business. Okay ? It’s ? Very. You know, i love the ditty gritty. This are listen, i mean, we’re all about real life here. Way need detail. You need clear policies around policies that people sign and everyone is very well aware of what the security policies, our protection use of technology. You said the company’s versus your pride, your personal technology home versus away from home. Okay, all right. Help me out here. Getting else what else belongs all this ? What else belongs in our policy ? Well, so there’s, we’re talking about there’s communication policies. How ? I mean, one of the things that we found when we first started having more virtual employees. We started as an in office, evan was in the office, and as we grew into different communities, we had employees in different cities and states than our headquarters were located in and things like when i sent an email, i just need you to acknowledge that the email resent if you’re in the office and i send you an e mail and you haven’t responded, i could walk into your office and say, hey, you get my e mail even if you’re not ready to respond to it. I know you’ve gotten it, and by five o’clock that day, i’ll get an answer when someone’s virtual and you send an e mail, you have no idea if it got lost, did it go into their spam and you have to get some kind of communication with one quick got it. So we said a communication policy that says if i asked you something or requested something, you send an email back saying, i got it, and i’ll get back to you by wednesday period the end it’s all set, and so that that you need to be very much more aware of those types of things and other community way have communication policies that go along with that. Okay, alice, you want teo or policy statement ? I mean, the security, i think, is the most important, you know, the email security, the hacking potentials. You know what happens also, when someone is let go, the lockout procedures, they have access to all of your systems, and they’re, you know, in north dakota somewhere to coffee shop, you have to shut down all of their access to things. So all of that needs to be planned at the level in the company. What are you going to do and how you handling staff with remote devices ? Can we do this if we don’t have a dedicated staff person ? And we don’t have a dedicated staff person ? Yes, face-to-face so the family says the answer is yes, okay, because are you know, we’re small and midsize non-profits in this audience, listeners. So you you on board someone with technology when they leave, you do the same thing on lee with a virtual person, you don’t physically have them there, and so you have to do the same thing you would do if someone was in the office, but make sure you couldn’t do it while they’re not physically there. How did they get your computer back to you ? Do they fedex it to you ? Are you going to go pick it up somewhere if they’re not there ? And so just those types of things need to be thought through, okay ? No. Excellent. I love the policy statement details because this is stuff you have to think through, and then alice to your point, has to be activated, implemented on from the top absolutely can’t just have a policy and ignore it. You know, if if it’s the ceo hyre it’s a sea level person whose whose distant you know, they too have to say, i got your e mail and i’ll get back to you by wednesday, everybody has to play by the same rules. There shouldn’t be exceptions or any accommodations or anything else. Yeah. Okay, um, how about let’s talk about some of the needs that your remote staff has we’ve been talking about managing the office ? What what special needs to the people ? But we only see a couple of times a year that’s a great question, okay ? I mean, i think they way it took that long, they need community, they need a partner, they need a buddy, they need to know that they’re not all alone. I’m so frequent meetings daily standup calls on dh heather’s organization native oppcoll standup called well, it’s a it’s, a phrase for a daily time when you just spend fifteen minutes sort of roll going around the company’s saying who’s doing what that day or our a team, if you’re working on a project together, you know everyone’s together on either a video chat or a conference call, or it could even be during us dahna slack channel or a skype group or a google hangout, or any type of technology that people can come together for a period of time. The more frequent that happens, the more connected they feel, and there is an issue of feeling lonely, it’s not that you’re just going off on your back room and typing all day long on your own, you need to be part of a community and part of a team. And the technology helps enable that. And heather’s organization there’s you do ? What is it a buddy ? So anyone who is new who comes on board there’s a couple things we do one is, no matter what level you’re at, you come to boston for a couple days, toe on board. You actually see physical people that’s probably essential. It’s, really ? It was one of like he learnings when i started working virtually is to know that there’s a physical person and a physical space or just seeing meeting someone face-to-face gives you much more of a connection to them immediately. The other thing we do is when we hire people we kind of give them we give them a partner. So we hyre associate director her in l a and we put them with the associate director in atlanta. This is not a mentor. This is not a supervisor. This is someone you can ask the dumb questions too. Like, how do i get my expenses paid ? Or i’m sure they told me this during orientation, but i don’t know what. To do about x, y and z and just having that person that you know you can go to is critical, especially when you’re by yourself in an office or in your home, and you’re trying to go up the learning curve of starting a new job. Okay ? All right ? What else ? Uh, anything else to be a empathetic to our remote employees again, this is a typical management. I would say this you should be doing this any time is just everyone’s intent is good. Assume that is good and there’s a good intent all all the time. That could be that that that’s going to have implications for chatting any female ? No, you can’t you’ll never hear the well, not never, but most of the communications you’re not going to hear the inflection in the person you don’t see the sometimes you don’t see the physical, you don’t see the physical, you don’t get the inflection, and so before you jump into anything or someone sent and i get this all the time and sends me an email and says i need blank, well, that could be taken in so many different ways. Are you demanding something from me did ice not get you something there’s so much in just those three words ? And so my first thing is tio okay, they have good intentions. Let me follow-up you need blank by when ? What is this for ? Get mohr information, they’re not now. They could be like you haven’t done something, i need it now and could be screaming it could be screaming at you with the default is the default is not do that and what we do actually, as we have everyone’s created communications charter that says how they like to be interacted with. And so i understand if you are one of these people who sends very short emails, i also have the flipside where someone sends me seven paragraph emails to describe one thing. And so if i understand how you interact, i could read that email with that understanding, not teo immediately assume that you’re yelling at me in the e mails. Excellent. Okay, very valuable. Are anything else ? Anything else to be supportive again ? Empathetic to the remote employees if we covered it, recovered it ? But i want to make sure we’re the only other thing i can think of is definitely getting together at least once a year with the whole team culture building wants that, yeah, it’s tough, it’s, tough in a non-profit environment where you’ve got a very tight budget, but we have prioritized and all in person meeting in boston, so we’ve got staff in california, in chicago, in atlanta and philadelphia. We make sure that we try in our budgeting process to bring everyone to boston for two days during the summer, not only for good brainstorming and thinking and strategy conversations, but also so they can connect with each other and have that community and build that in person conversation and feel comfortable with each other, and you feel like once a year is sufficient, you know, if i had the budget to do it more, i want a little longer, but all of that, yes. And so you have to take it for one of the that the tools that we talk about is the airplane. I mean, yes, it’s expensive, but it’s a really helpful tool to really get past some of the boundaries that are put up when you don’t actually physically meet in person. Alice, do you have a virtual employees also ? Jackson river, thirty thirty. Thirty. Revoting entire organization is ritual. Oh, my god. Okay, where’s, the is there a physical office ? There is a physical office with three people in washington d c yeah, but so we all behave as if were virtual. And there are many days that i don’t go into the office so in it. So you know, it saves a lot of money and transportation costs. It stays dry cleaning bills for everyone. It saves child care expenses. If you know it’s a very great way to have a lifestyle. Because yu yu have that flexibility, there’s also downsides to it. There are days that i wake up in the morning at six a, m and check email and all the sudden it’s too. And i haven’t eaten breakfast yet. And then i’m until six at night. So you know it’s a the same type of work-life integration needs to happen in a virtual environment as well as a physical office space. You know, you need to know how to take a break. You mentioned saving childcare expenses. So so the the remote employee it needs to be understood that the remote employee may not be immediately accessible right for a quick, you know, for for a last minute way gotta talk right now. So i think it’s about have something going on that is going to hold him up for ten or fifteen way try and make sure that people have adequate coverage to do their job during the day, the hours that they need to work. So we have a lot of employees that are at thirty hours a week because they want to spend more time with their families. Um, older children can be met at the bus stop and take care of themselves for a few hours in the afternoon, but the expectations of performance are still there. You know, we’re pretty high street standards of that, you know, we don’t want you to be distracted from your work. He managed the west coast versus east coast. Well, what is the west coast people have to do ? The westfield people have to start at six a m local time. I think a lot of people do different policies on that. Our policy is that you work for the day that work the business day in the time zone in which you live. So it’s, sometimes hard if we’re dealing with europe and the west coast at at the same time because the time zones i don’t overlap is, well, every boy’s in europe, we don’t have employees in your body to have clients in europe. So it’s ah it’s a situation where we have to manage that, but there are organizations that have west coast people working east coast, ours you have that way don’t have explicit policy that you work those hours, but we ask people how early on the west coast, how early would you be willing to have a meeting ? So we will not set meetings with some people ? Some people are early morning people and they would rather work from seven to three rather than nine to five, and so we’ll work with your schedule individually and so we so there are some meetings i will have on the west coast is seven o’clock in the morning, but that’s due to that person willing to do that, we have a few minutes left still let’s talk about some of the tech tech tools back-up that was i gotta ask you about slack. But what ? Black dot com how ? Do we find it or what you do for us ? Blackbaud comets, how you find it, you know, it’s it’s equivalent to skype or there’s google chat any type of chat software where everyone can log into and then there’s you can make groups in them. So the term for a group in slack is called a channel. And in our organization we have a channel for one of the channels is named lunch and if you’re going to be away for twenty minutes are going to lunch. We just take we just like everyone who’s in the company on that channel and say, hey, stepping away for a bit, i’ll be back in half an hour so we are all know it’s almost a cz though you would see me walk out the door, you know, and i instead of walking out the door i’m just telling that channel what’s happening there’s channels for each project also. So slack is a good one. Scott argast black is already a verb. Just like someone you’d like someone it’s a verbal. You skype someone you trust someone. Do you remember a well, instant messenger ? That that was a one man was that you could use that well, i was. But okay, so slack for for chatting. A quick, quick chat about document sharing is simple google docks or something better. It’s a simple a school back and microsoft has a great year. We have this product microsoft’s one dr sharepoint microsoft suite has has a document sharing software. Ah, cloud based saving system skype is now skype for businesses and integrated with it. And so we’re using that in the office and then there’s there’s a ton of independent ones out there. And it’s, whether it’s, videoconferencing or it’s document sharing or it’s chatting there’s a ton out there. And i think it could be overwhelming. And for us it was evaluating what was best for our organisation and what our upper management was able. Teo use we talked about this before is modeling the behavior you want from your staff and so getting upper management on board was key. So one of our project management software we use a sauna, and we’ve tried three or four of them and our ceo like hassan, and so if she was going to use a sauna, we’re all going to use this on you and so i think that’s really important. It’s got to be easy to use and work for your organization. Calenda ring simple is good calendar ring, yet you have any other tools besides google calendar ? We’re using outlooks calendar. Yeah, okay. Microsoft again. Yeah. All right. I think what other categories we need. Teo a video chat video is really important to scrape. A couple couldn’t do one on video with skype you khun duvette dio with google hangouts, but any time you can actually have an opportunity to see someone’s face and most of the calls we try to do as videos on dh, we find that that works really well. River again, the sense of community and if you can’t get together, that’s almost the next best thing and video has come a long way. The technology is more seamless than ever before, and so at least you’re seeing the person you might not get all of the nuance of the physical that that’s in the room. But you can see it in emotion or you can see a reaction to something which is super helpful or their cat walking of the cat we could get a lot of pets walking in front of the camera while people are on video that’s gonna be a lot of fun to talk about cats, but, you know, you have thirty virtual employees. You have fun doing it. I mean, oh, it’s awesome. Oh, it’s completely awesome is i love it. And well, you know, the best thing is that that people have really formed strong relationships with each other, they when you ask them what they like most about working here is they say each other, they say the people i’m here because i have connected relationships with other people on the team and to be able to create a culture where people feel connected to each other in a remote environment is is like, that’s the thing i’m most proud of, anything we’ve ever done, it doesn’t have to do their software product or what we’ve done to impact non-profits is the fact that we’ve had a culture of people that have had a wonderful time working and doing productive, impactful things. Jackson river always had a largest proportion of employees virtual from the beginning, when the beginnings and the culture to start about about it in the family way started as a two and a half person organization in the same way got to probably about eight to ten people in the office. And then our growth took us into different cities and communities. And that’s when we became virtual because of the growth, and so were probably half in the office in boston. And then half of our staff is outside and there’s one or two people in a city by themselves. We’re gonna leave it there. Excellent. Very much. Thank you. Alright. They are heather martin, ceo of interfaith family and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. And this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc ladies. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Way. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with your nine ? Ninety or your brooks ? Are your brooks or your books of those books ? And brooks properly managed ? Well, i could help you with the books. Eyes financial oversight in place so that your money isn’t going to fly out the door over the brook talkto wagner, partner, eat huge tomb. I’ve gotten to know him. I trust him. He’ll be honest about whether wagner is able to help you. You know where to go. Wagner, cps dot com now, tony steak too. I was at the lou costello statue in paterson, new jersey. Remember lou costello of abbott and costello and who’s on first. So what’s the connection, i hope, you know what’s on first is you’ve got to know that i mean who’s on first. Now who’s, what’s on second. I don’t know’s on third. I hope you know what i’m talking about. The connection is you gotta have some sense of history because this this comedy routine and the abbott and costello you they were from the forties, and if you want to be really successful, implant giving and you going to be actively talking to planned giving donors, you need to have some sense of history from the forties or fifties and vietnam. My video is that tony martignetti dot com now it’s time to map your data to your audience. Nces, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference day two we’re kicking off our date to coverage with courtney clarke and david mask arena all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits courtney clarke. Hello. Hello to you. Welcome. Let me give you a proper introduction. David, you could say hello. Hello, david. Mastering it from the convent and hilton foundation introduced himself. All right, david happens to be the digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. And courtney clarke is managing director of user experience forum one. Welcome. Good morning. Thanks for having us kicking off. Thanks for kicking off with us. Hey, happy to be here. You’re workshop topic is data and audience connecting to create impact. Okay, let’s, start with you. David. What do you think ? Non-profits aren’t getting quite right in this subject. Like, why do we need this workshop ? To be honest with you, tell you, please beyond yeah, don’t wear really blunt with the arika there’s a lot of data collection that’s happening in the nonprofit sector, but people don’t really do anything with it. There’s like a statistics where it’s like a very, very small percentage of non-profits you do something with data ? And, you know, for example, there’s so many data points that in any day, that non-profit collectibe we have overload, i mean, really was data over there’s like there’s, like this just beautiful dash was like, what do we do with this ? You have to stay close to michael, okay ? All right, so we’re overloaded. So courtney, what we’re trying to do and have you had your workshop yet ? Yes, we had it yesterday, so you’re on the downside. Yeah, this is easy for you. So what you were doing and then ? And what we’re going to do now is trying make sense of data that well don’t feel overloaded. Well, it’s, it’s mostly around communicating data and really being clear about who your audiences are when you’re doing that cause we have identified five different data, sort of consumers or data people who will consume your data, but they all need different amounts of information, different formats. So for example, like a data consumer, this is like an interested person in the public. Maybe they’re a news consumer. They don’t have a lot of domain knowledge always, and they don’t have a lot of data skills, so what, you’re giving them is going to be very different than, say, a policy maker or a date. A producer. Okay, someone who’s more in depth in the details of it already knows, has has a yeah, you’ve identified let’s. Take it from there. We’ve identified five different audiences. Is that right ? That’s ? Different, different types of audiences. Okay, what are what are the five ? We should start there. Yeah. That’s okay, what ? Five ? I’ll start. Okay. The next one. So data consumer two and then three e before there’s a ping pong tournament here. But we’re not. We’re not going out today. Okay, fair enough. So first is i mentioned the data consumer. This is i hate it when people say general public, because here you’re not really targeting everyone in the whole world. So let’s be a little bit more specific news consumers, people who are already interested a little bit. Okay, okay. Like i said, not a lot of dough mean knowledge. Not a lot of data skill. What you’re calling this group the data consumer. So this is the person you’re like scrolling through your news feed you’re looking at your phone. Ahn, do you see an instagram ? Post or something on facebook, or even in the press in the news. And what do you see ? You see an infographic that’s, simple right language that’s easy to understand. The point is very clear. That’s for the data consumer. They don’t have a lot of power, but there are a lot of those people. Okay ? Hey, name another one. The next one is the data actor. So this is who everybody is targeting. This is decision makers, policymakers on dh. These folks may have some domi. Knowledge may have a lot of durney domain knowledge, but they don’t have time. So even if they do have dana skills, the ability to analyze and understand massive amounts of data didn’t have time to do that. They have analysts who are helping them do that sort of thing. But very important people. They have the staff, they have the cloud. They have our policymakers decision. Is that right ? Yeah. Okay. Okay, david, just give us our remaining three. So, of course, to consume someone has to share it. So you got a date ? A promoter. So these were the bloggers he got you get the journalist. The advocacy for folks. This software developers, the entrepreneur. So these people are the ones who are, like projecting that data out there so that the consumer and the actor be able to see that. And then you have the analyst, which is very, very important a lot. You missed this one too. It’s, like now i have all these data is beautifully being shared out being read, who in a way is a domain expert, this staffer that’s going to be able to analyze and help advice, what to do with the data. And then finally, the researcher you got, you know, these air, the phd folks, these are you know, i was talking about like jin ho was their learning officer, that comet and hilton foundation she’s a researcher, and we recently did a site visit nairobi, kenya, for one of our grantees, shopko shining hope for community and they have rich, rich data they’re collecting around there, committing kibera and compare, by the way, is the largest of informal settlement in africa and think about, like, a size of, you know, central park in a compressor that seven thousand people and there’s so much data that they’re collecting about the community and helping them with their health care and, you know, with an education and such and community services in the way when she’s taught dana, she was just, like, drooling all over it. But she’s, like, i want to do something that and she’s such an academic she just wants to, like, basically designed something around it. So these air, like the data modelers is with the academics of phd folks that will help let’s take the data to a new level. Alright, much so our audience is small and midsize. Yeah, non-profit twelve thousand. So we’re talking a lot of people there in small, small and midsize shop. Yeah, they need to identify which of these audiences they’re talking to some some may never be talking to to the researcher, right ? Or the or the data actor. They might not be doing lobbying, so they may not be. So you have to identify which audiences you’re talking to, right ? You guys hear me ? Okay. And your headsets ? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. I don’t hear myself too well, but as long as you hear me, ok, you have to identify who you’re talking to you and then okay, so so i guess we’re going to get through now there are different data needs different ways of conversing about data with data to each of these different audience that’s right ? You don’t have that, right ? Yes, we’re mapping needs and method to the five different audiences and the knowledge that they have tio and the time, right ? So i mentioned the policymaker. They may have some expertise. They don’t have time right on time, don’t time like the researcher. Whereas the researchers, like, get out of my way. Just give me the spreadsheet, all query my own database, okay ? And then also in the spirit of being totally honest, so they have to be honest with yourself who you’re going to deliver the data to, like. If it’s your board, it’s your board and it’s. Okay, you know, and some people are like, oh, this is only for one very specific orders and that’s. Good, you know, because they’re being very, very honest with yourself. Okay, very good. So let’s, start with the ones that are most likely for a small and midsize not to be talking. So certainly data consumer. Yeah. That’s your nose. Your nose could be your donors. I know you’re not calling your donor’s, maybe even just board members. Okay ? Data actor. Maybe it could be any decision maker that could be your board as well. It could be. It could be your boss. It could be somebody who is influencing budgets influencing programming. This is the person who has the power to make a change. So it’s therein you figure out which ones were going teo so they’re they’re in data promoter. That could be a journalist. Yes. Right. So that’s potential. The analyst remind me. What’s what’s the likelihood of a small mid size shot talking to the analyst sometimes yeah, for smaller medium non-profit portable. Forget it. Yeah, yeah. Bonem altum but scale that xero scales up now we’re not going right. We’re not going treatable, but let’s, just talk about it, okay ? I think what i think what’s different, though, for smaller midsize non-profits is that the people listening may be the ones doing the analysis themselves. They may not have a supper analyst. Okay. Yeah, and many came from currently hilton foundations. They get smaller foundation. And a lot of us were multiple hats. So someone might be liberta both, but yet, yet they still move every important. Okay ? They’re all in. Okay ? Yeah. All right. So what do we do for the data consumer ? How do we have a retailer to that audience ? Yeah. They’re a couple of key things. That’s. What we need. Yeah. So one is use plain language when you’re communicating to them, they may not know who you are, what you do, why it matters. Plain language is really key. Sometimes people get a little too marketing me. Sometimes they get a little too research. E you need to be able to say what you want to say in a really simple visual with some simple language like you’re talking to your friends. Yeah, we were at a dinner party. You’ve got ten seconds to explain what this is and what matter-ness schooling for. Graphic. That will do it for you or something like that, right ? Or even just like a data point point. Okay, we got to take a break. Tell us, for pete’s sake, think of the companies you can refer and start asking them that’s the first step. Well, actually, the first step is watching the video. Then you start referring the companies and talking. To them, you’ve heard the testimonials from the charity’s. You’ve heard the testimony from the companies. It’s. Time to get that long stream of passive revenue for yourself. Start with the video. That is the first step video. Is that tony dot, m a slash tony tello’s. Now back to courtney clarke and david mask arena from eighteen. Ntc what’s. The summary. Yeah, and a couple of that with something you mentioned visually could be motion. Could be a visual visualization of data. It could be a story. It could be a video that couples with the data because just it’s. Just a lot more impact for when you, when you when you pair it, but okay, let’s, start to make sense. Your data consumer is gonna be a lot more interesting story then your analyst or your research eggs ? Absolutely. And during our session yesterday, there are people in the audience who talked. We talked a lot about how we paired data with stories because the narrative makes it so much more riel, it elevates the people that are actually being affected by this data. So there were some great stories about that. Okay, okay. Back-up let’s, go to the well, anything else about the consumer ? I mean, this is this is this is probably our largest constituency. Yeah, so i think the other thing is to be clear about what action you want them to take because your data should support that action don’t just and and actually that came up from an audience member yesterday who said people weren’t being moved by the data and so that’s why they started pairing it with stories and once somebody gets hooked and they feel those heartstrings being cold or they feel that passion rise that’s when you gotta capitalize and be really clear what the action is, whether it’s donating, volunteering on asking for more information yeah, signing up for the male daughter, give us your new gives your email yeah, and think about the safety step back a little bit this like you have to identify goal, like whether you’re trying to accomplish with this data set and it would help you help you with to decide like what to share in how to share that welfare that’s always important place to start gold. What was the purpose of this, exactly what we’re trying to move people and then we try to move people to do and then be clear about exactly called. Okay ? That’s, right ? And the goal is the hardest part. Frankly, knowing the goal is the hardest part. It’s on so simple, but it’s like that ask why five times you got to get to the real root of why you’re doing this. All right ? We’re talking about our actor actor. Okay, refresh my recollection, who’s, this decision makers, policymakers, people who are going to make the change that you want, sir. Yeah. Okay. Okay. How do we talk to these people that data. So the format is briefings sometimes it’s in the form of a press release. They need, like, think about a policy maker who has a staff and maybe they have to vote on a bill or make a decision. The staff member is the one who’s calling non-profits calling agencies and saying what’s happening in my district around this topic. So being able to slice your data by topic and location is really valuable to these folks and getting this summary out and again the action. What ? Why does this matter and their actions going to be different than the consumer ? Usually you’re looking for a decision, a vote, something exactly what you want to say more about the actual, i think something that’s adjustable something that if you could package it for them, like staying here, the key takeaways from this a swell, you know, think of this, like, you know, you know, working the communications team. And, you know, we provide press kits for people. And if you could provided that, you know, so so they could easily digest and help, um, guide them through the decision making process, i think will be the key. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And i guess also keeping in mind you you may not be talking to the principal. Yeah, right, right. It could be a staff staff, something. Usually it is so it’s. Gotta be it’s. Gotta be so your your urine for always going through someone to the decision maker way don’t love that. Right ? Twice removed, twice removed from your there once removed from your data. Yeah, it happens. I mean, that’s what ? Any communication, though. Anytime you’re putting something out, somebody could take it. Andi at their own commentary around it. That’s what ? The data promoter that’s a that’s a benefit in a risk, right ? Because they could date a promoter could be multiplying. Your audience is your audience, but they could be putting their own message. They could be manipulating the data in a way that may not be true to it. But, you know, were you everybody has had, you know, that journalist didn’t get the quote quite right ? Yeah, you are taking over simplification exactly. If the press often has to do to make something interesting to readers, you know, put in a headline. Yeah, yeah, and the promoter should also think about, like, segmenting looking if they could do, like, a more targeted in a way, like, if they know specifically that they’re going to try to communicate. Teo, i think they’ll be the key as well. And you get to know your trusted data promoters, right ? You know, the journalists or the bloggers are the advocates who you trust, who you align with the messaging around. So identifying those folks or maybe you don’t know them and you do a little research and you find out who you are, where, wes, you need to know within your sector who the influencers are. Absolutely yeah, i get a little bit of research. Goes a long way. Yeah. Back-up how do you feel about the standard press release ? Since we’re talking about the audience of promoters, we’ll be sending it to either of you have, ah, opinion on press releases. Are they outdated there ? Some school of thought that press release is dead. But it’s it’s still being used is using it. You’re still using journalists say they ignore them. Yeah, andi, and honestly goes back to relationship building, you know, like in communications, that our primary key is build relationships with with journalists. So when our press release passes through their deaths, they’d be able to, like sick. Oh, let me take a look at this and then dig deeper into the story for us. Just a little more let’s. Talk about building a relationship with a journalist before you want them. Tio, take some action for you to write about you in to quote you on that day’s breaking news. Yeah. How do we build that relationship when we don’t have a need ? But, you know, we want to be in front of the person. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like i just it’s a good old fashioned relation building, you know, you have called them, reach out them email and called, you know, like you have no agenda, but i mean, this marketplace exactly you often cover way. Have coffee, exactly. What a concept. I mean, like, i’m also part of communications network conference, just another communications based non-profit unconference and a lot of journalists attend that and it’s a great opportunity, this plate, this form and ten is a another great form to meet people like i would add to that you need to be you need to understand that audience and you need to be curious about they have their own set of requirements that they’re trying to meet. They’ve got an editorial calendar there. Boss has told them what topics to focus on. They’re looking for. They need they need to youto help them connect the dots. So maybe don’t start with the ask, understand what they’ve been working on for the last month. What stories ? What topics ? And then being able to which, which, by the way, does not mean ask them what have you been writing me out ? It means doing your research before you do the outreach, so that you know, so that, you know, you’ve shown that, you know, you show that you’ve taken the time to know what their beat is exactly not just asking you what do you write about lately ? Well, it’s in the paper buy-in there dubai it’s on it’s, on the site, in the research, and then and then what are you working on next or what’s ? The story you’ve been dying to write that you haven’t had the chance to there’s always a good answer for that and there’s a great conversation starter, especially like imagine putting yourself in their shoes, you know, like someone just roundly wants to have coffee with you, but you have no idea who they are didn’t even do any sort of research like and, you know, you have very, very busy schedule, and you have multiple crowdster headlines like we just need to remember they’re people tio don’t waste their time any more than you would waste. Teo spend the time with a potential donor. Exactly ask them what you’re worth. You’re not gonna ask them things that you want to know already write, write, write what is it about our work that he loves ? Well. I’ve been giving to you for fifteen years, i think it’s, probably in my e-giving history, you know, don’t waste people’s time exactly, but but it is important to build relationships with exactly these influences. Okay, i would add to that there channels are largely on social media. If you talk to any journalists, they spend all their time on twitter. So if your twitter gene is not great it’s time it’s time. Learn what hashtags there using. Follow those channels, see who they’re following. See what they’re talking about. A great way to do research on also how to start to engage early on, even if it’s just observing. Okay. Okay. Very good. Okay, so i want you. I want to spend more time on that. I want to check my mike. Want to make sure that everything is good here. Okay, a little insecure about the way i sound. I don’t know. I sound you don’t sound good to me, it’s. Not okay to you, though, right ? It’s ? A little soft. Like i can hear myself. Really ? I could hear myself, teo. You don’t hear me. According to richard it’s. Not as clear. Yeah, in-kind okay. And give. Myself a lot more volume. All right, now, my too loud. Ok, it’s. Good. Allright. Thank you. Time for our last break. Hoexter give quote, i compared a bunch of companies in my search for it hoexter donate company and text to give is the best hands down. They have b been beyond helpful. I can’t imagine anyone doing this better exclamation mark end quote that’s lauren bouchard from global commission partners in clermont, florida. Satisfied ? She is with text to give you will be, too for info text npr to four, four, four, nine nine, nine. We’ve got several more minutes, and here they are for map your data to your audiences. Let’s, continue the analysts. Right. Data analyst. Refresh our recollection. David who is this ? So this is the data expert this’s. The staffer that’s or consultant ? That would help be a read data. Okay, and analyze it for you, like they be in a foundation. Now. I like the way i sound better. Okay ? Like they’d be a foundation program, officer. It could be. Is that an example or no, i’m not necessarily. I mean, it could be a learning officer for the foundation meeting the one. Who’s like analyzing all the learning and data sets. Ok, he could be a data manager, you know, within an organization. Where would you ? Where would you put a program, officer out of foundation ? Someone who’s evaluating your grant proposal. Where ? Where would they fit in these audience ? Most like, i mean, it’s a little bit of both between the consumer and the actor, to be honest with you, because they’re both a decision maker. So they’re going to read the data and they’re also going to get this just like, okay, this is how my program is going and here’s how i’m going to act upon it. And here’s how i’m gonna adjust my strategy with it. Okay ? Yeah. All right. So, let’s, go back to the analyst. How do we, uh, david ? You keep going. What do we do with this ? How do we talk to the analyst with our data ? Go. No. Gosh, just give it all to them. Honestly, rod, they love him. They loved it. They love spreadsheets there. Said if they see a string of numbers, imagine like matrix type of thing. They’re like oh, my gosh, this is habit. Okay, okay. Yeah. It’s that simple ? Well, they have, i would add that they usually have the domain a knowledge. Do you think of a policy maker ? They haven’t education expert on staff or they may have an expert in international relations it’s that person who knows the domain quite well and feels comfortable digging through the data and furthermore to add to that, too is like if he providing which your goals and what your strategy is for and what they’re trying to provide the otherwise they’d be able to help you got guide you through the breeding process say more about that ? Yeah, what shit a little bit, so think of him like, you know, like, if i’m like, if i am se the heather communications in the foundation and i’m like, i’m gonna talk to a data analyst we’re trying to accomplish x can you help me read through this day that what types of data sets can leave first collect and what’s up days says comey can provide so they’ll be able to accomplish that goal, then they were able to narrow down because otherwise they could they could. You stand in any sort of ways, but if you provide some sort of direction or gold. They’re able to, like filter things a little bit better for you. Okay, yeah, very good. Really good. And our last left audiences the researcher buy-in courtney yeah, the researchers are get out of my way and give me this red sheet they the like they may scan through your infographic, your visualization, your query tool. But really, they’re going to build their own query tool. They’re goingto grab that they’re the ones who are in sequel making pivot table like they’re doing all of it. Okay, we have jargon jail on twenty sequel i think people will know, but i’m going to pivot table. Alright, excel itself. Okay, sorry, i’m taking a data analytics class so i’m learning this stuff, so i’m excited to be able to talk about it just dropping, dropping top, but, yeah, i imagine you’ve got an excel table that is so large that you can’t open it x l can’t open it. That is what these researchers are are working in and they’re very comfortable working in and they’re the ones who may even be collecting data as well as analyze sing it for themselves, so think of it like a like a layer deeper than unless they got analysts who may rely also some visualizations. And of course, like a deep amount of pressure. But these guys are like they’re just like neck or forehead, deep of like numbers and data, and they want to do everything themselves. Yeah, yeah. So one one important thing here we have worked on a number of data projects and for non-profits or foundations any group who wants to attract many of these audiences, the keeping with researchers is you have, like, the get data page or sometimes we’ll put it in the footer and it’s, like, just download the excel spreadsheet because i keep saying it, but you got to get out of their way. Just give them what they want, okay ? Okay. We have, like, another minute and a half or so do you have tools ? And, uh, in your description, you mentioned choosing the right data tools. Any tools we can introduce briefly that you like, i mean, to be honest and this is like, tio, you get off being out of keeping it will be really hash tag riel here, please place if you’re old website have google and alex installed. I mean, you’d be surprised how many webs are out there and smashing non-profits believe that twenty nine, twenty nine percent of them are using do or not. Okay, okay did not have google and licks and police bare minimum do that and they said, like have i think the fun ? Nothing is like have goals, you know, before it was like before you venture into the day the world ? Yeah, there is there’s a great study that every action did called the state of non-profit data. And you can it’s from twenty sixteen. But it’s a great read a page i recommended. Okay, we’re gonna leave it with we’ll leave it there without recommendation. All right, all right. They’re courtney clarke, managing director of user experience at forum one. And david mask arena digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. Courtney and david. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure. This interview along with all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you for being with non-profit radios coverage of eighteen ntc next week the buy-in bitches getting buy-in from your leadership. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing toe online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Bradunas cps dot com by tello’s, credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Durney dahna slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine a. Creative producers. Claire meyerhoff, sam leave lorts is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein. You need me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Dahna good. You’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut ? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down ? Hi, i’m nor in sumpter, potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio, leo dot n y c geever. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates ? 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Tune in live every thursday, one p, m to two p m eastern standard time on talk radio dot n y c you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator ? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness ? Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio. Dot buy-in. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Buy-in.

Nonprofit Radio for August 24, 2018: Your Website Redesign & Overmarketing

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Oren Levine, Lisa Ghisolf, & Emily Patterson: Your Website Redesign
It’s your step-by-step guide to a website makeover. Let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference is Oren Levine with International Center for Journalists; Lisa Ghisolf with GizmoCreative Factory; and Emily Patterson, founder of BeeMeasure.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Overmarketing
Amy Sample WardIt drives Amy Sample Ward bananas. Let’s talk through her issues and preventative measures. She’s our social media contributor and the CEO of NTEN, Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 

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Oh, hi, hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into a habit ood if you told me the dull idea that you missed today’s, show your website redesign it’s your step by step guide to a web site makeover let’s include gaining stakeholder support, managing contractors and using data to drive better engagement. Our panel from the non-profit technology conference is orin levine with international centre for journalists. Lisa gets off with gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measure and over marketing it drives amy sample ward bananas let’s talk through her issues she’s, a social media contributor and the ceo of n ten non-profit technology network i told you to, i’m wagging my finger, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p well, you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weather cps dot com bye tello’s durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s on by text to give amglobal donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine here is your website, redesigned from non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re hosted by the non-profit technology network, coming to you from new orleans in the convention center. This interview, like all our eighteen ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits, i guess now are orin levine, lisa gets off and emily patterson, or in his director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa is founder and creative director at gizmo creative factory, and emily patterson is founder. Be measured that’s b e like the insect welcome buy-in. Your seminar topic is gourmet taste on a pizza budget. Tackling a website, we design for small non-profits, and i noticed that in your session description, use the word small three times. That’s perfect for non-profit radio because our twelve thousand listeners are in small and midsize non-profits. So i don’t have to admonish you or remind you even taylor, your comments too small and midsize or no, i don’t, because it’s, you’re right, it’s in your dna, it’s in the dna of your workshop topic, anyway, get carried away. Personal. Okay. What what are the challenges? Let’s, start down there with emily on the far end? What are the challenges with website redesign? Hyre? Definitely, i compare website redesigns, teo doing laundry, at least at my house. Okay, that it’s something where it feels like you put all this work into it, and then when you’re done well, there’s a whole new basket of laundry, and you need to start all over again. Yes, it’s, a project that it could take over here and then it’s. You know, another year passes by and it’s, time to start redesigning your website all over again, because technology and trends change so frequently, something you have constantly have to keep up with. What do you part of what you described way? Have you done your workshop yet, or it’s coming? No it’s tomorrow at one thirty and that’s a preparation for you? Okay, she’s like a batting range, putting, putting green. I don’t know too much. I don’t be doing sports analogies that that was a mistake i don’t anything about. I don’t know anything about either of those sports, football or tennis, so okay, what do you need? What do you need to have in place? Could we start with you? Lisa, can you could you adjust that one? What do you need to let in place? But think about before you embark on hiring someone to do it or doing it in house? What do you need to think about? You really have to think about weirder site is now and if it’s working for you and if you comptel, if it’s working for you, since we generally have analytics, but also are you getting the results that you want out of it? Are your constituents getting what they need out of it all of that kind of thing? And then it’s just improving upon what you have if its content or design usability, all of those things, okay? Or you want to add wear at the pre stage now, exactly. And this is in some ways where the small comes in, because one of things your back of your mind is, is what resource is do you have realistically to approach the project, which will probably be less resource is than you would love to have? Especially if you know you’re looking at other websites and say, oh, i’d love to have a website like name your large corporation here and because you’re not small non-profit you can’t. And in addition to the questions, lisa was passing one of the question, in fact, you need to ask is, you know, why do i have a website at all? You know, it’s really gets down to what am i doing? I’m murcott what’s the purpose why do i want people to visit me in the web but who’s coming to visit? What do i want them to do when they get there? And by being really careful about asking those questions that helps you match what you could do there to the limited budget you’re going toe? How do you overcome this stick of the orange? How do you overcome not knowing what could do? It is not your site is not doing it now, but it could, but but you don’t know. What it could do because you’re not already exploiting that. How do you feel that gap, that knowledge gap? Well, it’s ah, sort of a balance between what what it’s already doing, what it could do and what you wanted to do. And a lot of what we talked about in our own organization was trying to distill down of all of our laundry list or went backto the laundry analogy, a laundry list, emily’s basket wish list of all the things you wanted to do or could do or might do an ideal world. It’s really important to try to focus down on a few very, very critical things that you want the website to do. Focus your efforts there that both helps focus the minds of the people who are responsible for the website and then focusing your budget on a realistic set of goals you can achieve. So you might brainstorm and then and then and then focus exactly two realities. Okay, okay. See about something else you pledged to cover in your workshop. Hold your feet to the fire. Think about who to hire. Whether you need is who wants to take this one first? Whether. Whether you need expertise, we don’t necessarily have to go in line. One, two, three, three, two, one, which i don’t i don’t like that, but we can now for now anyway. There’s soup for now, but i’ll bring it up if we keep up with us whether whether you should a lot of small orcs probably do need help, right, then we’re gonna need some technical help. This website project definitely on dh speaking as a designer and developer, generally i come in when they don’t have those resource is on staff, or if those people are overwhelmed and speaking to lauren’s point, sometimes you can brainstorm with those people and find out exactly new things that you may not be aware of ways that you can integrate databases better, etcetera on improving communication. So, you know, so much of it is just what you’re re sources are and what you’re willing to put forth. So you’re often in the role of having tio make the expectations fit the budget. Yes, we can’t do that yet. I know you would love to, but if you want to do these other things that you said were playing top three priorities. And we can’t do this. You can’t have six priorities. Yeah, i’m a big believer in phase development, so if you could do it in six months, then we’ll do it in six months when it’s more feasible. Okay, how do you, uh, how do you message that reduction down, too of reality when it when you’re talking to the ceo executive director? Oh, gosh, i mean, i basically put it the exact same way that we can do this in six months. We can still make it happen with the budget that you have, but if you want to put more towards that, then of course, we could make plenty of things happening now, so okay, so bring it down. Arika money. Yes. Way to spread it out. You can have it, but it’s gonna take longer. Okay? In fact, one of the things we talked about in the session is sort of tricks. I learned i was emily start going out orders don’t get going out at one point, i want i want to head over to emily because she’s really the expert on how to manage to ceo seo, i’d better let her speak for that. I’m not going sequence. I don’t want you to continue, okay? My my one question is that one of the now now a great host, it’s time for a break, pursuing their newest paper is pursuing e-giving outlook it’s a roundup of all the fund-raising data that you need, they took the latest fund-raising reports boiled them down to the essentials into a concise content paper, plus there’s a video archive of the weapon, or that they did around this whole subject. It’s, an ensemble piece, paper and webinar both on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now, back to your website redesign say something talk emily yeah, it was like they had a message to you, ceo message manage expectations about the top level uh, so i think one of the things that people don’t realize, especially at the top level around website redesigns is just yeah, how much, how much work and how much? And thus time and money is involved, and i think having teo yeah, message and set expectations around that is a big challenge buy-in vices that i’ve worked and now in a zoo independent consultant, my point of contact is typically, you know, you’re marketing director or your communications person who have, who handles all of communications and all of fund-raising so kind of a mid level person and being able to work with them to help them set expectations with there with their boss around the web website, because i think a lot of a lot of executive directors, you know, they’re a little bit detached from the project and, you know, they’re looking online, and they’re seeing all of this awesome stuff that other organizations or, you know, even for-profit companies are able to dio and they don’t realize, you know how much time and money needs to go into that. I’m going to pick up on on emily’s point, that becoming the position of being the non-profit that’s working with cos, you know, we were designing the web site, and one of the things we try to make sure of is we knew internally in our own organization who who is responsible to make the final decision so that, you know, family’s talking the communications director, she needs to know that when the communications director says we’re not going to do this, then hearst boss is not going to come down two weeks later and say, well, actually, we are let’s keep that anyway, because that’s, how you lied to basically blowing your budget and changing your plans. So it’s, very important as an organization is a nonprofit taking on the project to be clear in advance. Who are the decision makers? Who are the real stakeholders, who is going to make the decisions and who needs to stay out of the way? That’s perfect. So who should be let’s? Go to you family? Who should be part of this design team? I mean, i think having one clear a person who is ultimately one person is in charge. Yes, having been in the position where three people are making the decision, you know that doesn’t really work. So ultimately one person has to have the final say. So we are we are not doing this, but i think lots of people should be involved and be able to have their input because you will otherwise get in this situation. Where oranges years, months later i don’t know. How’d we get this? Yes or no? You roll that definitely derail your project. If all of a sudden you had someone pop up and say hey, what happened? Teo x y z i thought we were doing this, and then as a consultant to be the person who says, oh, sorry, that’s not in the budget, i think it’s so we need to think through in the beginning stages, who are the stakeholders? So but with the web, but at our website affects everybody. Lisa, how do we decide whose we can’t have too many people in the process? I already said that how do we decide who should be part of this process and who should be sidelined? A big part of that for me is design theory. Tio it’s basically starting off with talking to all of the people who are going to be using the site. So if it’s one person from the board, one person from the staff, one actual end user, et cetera, and they don’t necessarily have to be people who are involved in the decision making part of it. But fighting out how they actually use the site and how they would like to use the site and how it all fits into the overall organization makes a huge difference in the end result and how successful it is, okay or anything you want to add to this? Yeah. And that’s another reason why inside the organisation it helps to have somebody you can sort of manage some of those relationships internally in some ways be a bridge between the organization and the external party. I in some ways fulfill that role in my organization. I’m not responsible for the site, partially because i have experiences a web product manager, i’m ableto some ways mediate, i suppose, between some of the internal forces intentions and our external external vendors, and that makes life easier for them because they have fewer people to talk to, and we’re clear decision making it makes life easier for us and that we’re able to resolve some of our issues ideally before we start having to pay for it’s going to more detail on this, managing the contractors or contractor whatever that is doing the process. Emily, you’ve got something you want. I was going to say that i think having your communications director or someone at that level lead the project is a good call because they’re in a role where they khun both understand more closely, like the technical side of what we’ll need to go into this because they’re close enough. To the project, where they might be in a role where they’re updating the website. But then there also. Removed a little bit from it and more into the business side of things where they can understand the bigger picture and the business decisions and the important role that stakeholders play. Where i think if you put the website in the i t department and have that management come from that side, they might spend more time kind of focused on how is everything working exactly and ignore the business side of war on the into the code? Okay, okay, let’s, let’s talk more about managing the contract with doing this project for us out. How do you? How do you like to be managed? I don’t like to be managed, but well, essentially the biggest thing is always communication on both ends of it and setting expectations. Some people love to talk only via email, some are i need to get on the phone with you to make you understand this and it’s an inter generational thing, it’s just it’s. Everybody certainly has different feelings on that bye, setting up expectations of how often we’re going to talk, how we’re going to talk, how we’re going to be managing all of these assets, all of these things that makes things so much easier down the line, and you don’t have developers who disappear or gaps in knowledge where well, we have no idea where we’re hosted right now, which is a huge deal, because so many people don’t really know all their passwords and everything. So let’s, let’s move to something else that you were are going to cover tomorrow. Use of data, you said data tio dr better flew and better engagement. Who’s the everybody plays family, right? Emily, you’re got two thumbs pointing to you. Yes. Yeah. That’s. The data portion of it is really my specialty. Okay, so we’re going to talk a little bit about what the stakeholder they wrote to me in for the stakeholder section because i had had this other presentation that oren saw where it was about using data to kind of manage people’s personalities, but definitely needed to manage personnel. That was that was different. There was somewhere else. Yeah. Is that another? Another kind of interested? Okay, about how you can take the day that you collect and then use it. Tio appears the different sort of questions and issues that pop with your different stakeholders, but definitely before you embark on your redesigned some suggestions about, you know what sorts of data people should look at, a lot of it depends on what sorts of issues pop up with your various people who are involved. I really kind of feel like there’s kind of three basic types of issues that it will happen, you know, there’s the sort of person who doesn’t you might have it from your executive director or from another person, your organization, they don’t necessarily want to spend any money, so helping to make the case that we need to make this investment and we need to invest in better technology, you can use your your google analytics user testing surveys a variety of different things to get a good picture of what’s going on with your audience because who’s using your website is not necessarily reflecting the needs of the person using your website isn’t reflecting. You know the needs of the people in your audience, they’re not in your office, they’re not the same. Okay, what else about data? I’m so you also get the person who is has all the fun ideas, maybe, you know, reads a lot of things. Online about the latest trends, and we need to have this widget and that widget and helping them get a good perspective on, you know, what’s really going on with our users where we really having problems with our site right now that definitely need to be fixed in the in the redesign, you can use google analytics things like back-up they have a funnel feature to see you. Nowhere in your process is people you’re losing people dropping out, leaving your side, and then i love surveys and user testing as a way to hear from riel people how frustrating it is for them to use certain functions on your website. So who would you send those surveys to? Is that that cut across all your constituents metoo donors, board members, people who are engaged, engaged with your programs, receiving your service is all those people get survey like that? It depends. I’ve done ones on the website, which i think are nice. Google has ah, very low cost pop up sort of survey you may have seen them before that you can answer a couple questions, and then there’s typically kind of an open end response, which is a great source for people’s france. Ok, things are kind of questions. Do we ask? You can certainly ask about user rolls if you want. If it’s important for you and your your website to understand who’s used what constituency you would word it this way, but what constituency they fit into. We’re delivering services, etcetera. Okay. What? What else do you want to find out? That’s? Fine, but you could totally keep it super simple. And just as something like, you know, what brings you to the site today? Are you satisfied with your experience? If not, you know what recommendations do you have for us? Those three questions? I think we’ll get you a good picture of what’s going on. I mean, i’ve had guests on who say the best survey is, like, five fewer questions. Oh, yeah, definitely. Okay, so short is not problematic. It all it’s preferred? Yeah, especially if you you know, you’re kind of you’re popping up at them. They’re coming to your sight because they’re trying to do something else. So you want to keep the survey short because you’re kind of interrupting their experience? What else can wait? Talk about around this? You’re going, you’re going to feel ninety minutes tomorrow. Well, let me add another more point about data again. I’m coming at this from persuaded emily. So i thought the data when emily stop, okay or you can talk about data. Whenever we took a breath, i thought that was the end of the day that i could talk for days about data e talking about okay, just the one small point i wanted to make again back to managing expectations, it’s away to also manage expectations your stakeholders had about people who are wedded to. We’ve always had this section on the website i love this information is valuable and it’s useful to be able to go to analytic state and say twenty, people visited this page in the last five years. We don’t need it. Okay? Spell, myth it’s also a legacy pages that people are tied to strongly, but nobody else cares it’s also testing out processes to like, how long does it take someone to actually make a donation or to find the volunteer form or something like that? Does it take to long for them to get there and they get tired of it? And they just leave, or does the executive director have an idea that they love this particular feature, but no one’s clicking on it or they wantto accident actually everyone’s clicking on it. And we don’t know that unless we actually get true user data, so it helps it. A lot of scenarios are based in reality. You know, the numbers no like yeah. All right. Uh, okay, so we still have you just took it five or six minutes together. What else can we talk about on this topic website? Redesigned. You promised a step by step guide. We missed any step. Well, there’s, plenty of stuff. Cemetery. Alright, so name some names, something we haven’t talked about it content auditing of your current site. So actually, i’m going to cut you off there, like three or four sessions ago, we talked about content, name another one and another step way of linking on it that we haven’t talked a lot of sessions, police about post launch care and the whole yeah, because to me kind of the laundry analogy to but to me, a website is a living, breathing thing. And just because you’re done with it, because it launched does not mean that it is done. You need to keep feeding that for google to pay attention to and for your users to pay attention to. You also need to be aware of the ongoing costs of maintaining the site and keeping it secure. Ilsen and already you have a laundry. Now you wanna bring laundry and maybe a lot of what you want. I’m thinking more about sort of laundry all of a sudden, you know, chris created out of no where in your hamper, because what happens is part of the consequence. If you’ve been really successful, i think in managing expectations and limiting the scope of your redesign and coming up with a very clean site, that means there are going to be items that fell off the must have list that are now on the might have list or nice to have list, but after launch that’s an opportunity to sort of incrementally add in some of the things you may have wanted to do earlier as budget becomes available. That’s part of what lisa was saying about it’s, an ongoing project not only maintenance but ongoing improvement i remember, but i used to work at a large non-profit before people with sort of a background in your television program, you would say that keep iooking cleanse the website done, and i think least i mentioned at the beginning of our talk it’s never done that’s an ongoing lisa, do you see? Oh, our emily also commonalities around things that people want but don’t really need or, you know, durney generalities about things that they say is a top priority, but really it’s, not any any generalizations you could make around that. How about home paint sliders? I was just thinking that way, but everybody loves big sliders, right? No one clicks on them. They really don’t know. They don’t stop it to go back. So many guys attract many home page sliders. Yes, they get teo slide too, i think. Yeah, they and then they go to what they really want. Okay, i think people, maybe this is at least as different impressions. But i think there’s just too much emphasis and too many politics around the home page and what goes on on the home page because most sites people are coming in sideways, you get a lot of people coming in. From search, especially if your sight is well designed and has, you know, all the ceo best practices. People will come in to your bog post or to your content pages, and they’ll never see your home page. And so in projects i’ve been involved with, the home page gets very political and can stall things. Okay, that’s, old thinking that everybody’s coming directly to our our main, our main domain. And everybody wants a piece of it. Yes, there’s a lot of fighting about. Okay, so you are generalizing about okay, george, as i was going to bring this up before, but yeah. There’s a lot of oh, you know, my department needs to go on the home page. This is very important. Very important to this organization. All right, all right. What else could we were going to flush out? A little bit more? Got another couple minutes left. What one thing is, i was going to advise i came up with a bunch of sort of tips and tricks. If you’re inside the organizations that have ways too, to keep your stakeholders, i was going to use the word under control. But that’s a bit of a loaded term, but back to the prioritization, you know, prioritization is really critical, you know, making those choices about what you want to do and there’s been lots of cases in several projects i’ve worked on when you know your stakeholders might have a long list of things they want to do. And as somebody who’s running a project it’s really important to learn how to say pick one really focuses the mind i sway for, you’re not going to need that. That sort of thing to really help helps sort of focus the issue. Everybody gets one right, you could. You could name as many as you like, but you’re gonna get one priority. Okay, okay, yeah buy-in talking to clients. I used to say to people, you know, we can do this, you know, or we could do this and that response, wass, what can we do both. So i have learned to rephrase it and say, here are three options, pick one, okay. We asked what you, uh so what do you love about the work that you do? You know, organizations i work within cos they’re so wide ranging that it always amazes me what you can learn, what you can pick up and all of the commonalities of them too, you know, there there’s so many things that they’re all trying to get across, even if they’re a tiny little organization. So it’s, um, and making a difference with it with the actual and product from what they can about you are what you love about this work. I think what’s really interesting about the work is one year’s going setting off on a website redesign you think you’re doing a technology project, and it almost inevitably ends up being a management project because i think we’ve alluded to it before that the company’s your organization’s website is really related to how it’s organised how the organization works and you end up sometimes having more conversations about how the organization works and how we’re running on what our strategies then, about technology, about the actual some introspection. Okay, emily, i’m gonna give you ten or fifteen seconds. What do you like? What you love about this work your work about the work that i d’oh. I mean, i like that it’s always changing. I specialize in data stuff and it’s a field that’s constantly evolving. So i like that aspect of being able teo, keep up on it and always be just like our websites. Yeah, conley evolving. Always changing. Never finished. All right, they’re orin levine, director of innovation at the international centre for journalists. Lisa lisa it’s. A guess off. Yeah. Sounder and creative. Director of gizmo creative factory and emily paterson, founder of be measured. Thanks so much for being with us. I think this interview like all of them here it eighteen ntc sponsored by network for good, easy to use dorner management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with non-profit video coverage of the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference. We need to take a break. Wagner. Cps for pete’s sake, talk to you. Eat huge tomb. You know the man. You heard him on our four hundred show. Did he sound high pressure to you? Of course not. He sounded like the gentleman that he is gentlemanly and professional. Check out the farm of course. Got to do your due diligence. Do your research weinger cps dot com then pick up the phone. Talk to you, wagner, cpas dot com then moved to real life now tony steak too it’s finger wagging time. I want you to plan ahead so that you make time don’t just look for it try to find it. You make time for yourself yourself over labor day weekend time alone, its restorative you heard last week steve rio talk about thie the benefits throughout your day of of mindfulness and presence, and even maybe ah meditation for a couple of minutes. I mean, they do virtual meditations of bright webb, he said, every day for five minutes, take time for yourself. Make time for yourself over labor day weekend, even if even if part of it is a nap. It’s restorative, you’re in e-giving profession you give you give, you have to be a little selfish and take make that time for yourself wagging my finger and there’s a little bit more on that in the video at tony martignetti dot com what a pleasure to have amy sample ward back. She is our social media contributor. Ceo of intend the non-profit technology network her most recent court third book, social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample board, dot or ge and at amy rs ward. Welcome back, amy. I think having me back, it’s always a pleasure. You’re always you’re always welcome back. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Should be a surprise to you. We always work well, i hope that you’ll let me know if i get cut from the roster will stop taking your calls. Know that we’ll have to wait on the phone. I’ll call in with a different say. I have a question to make up a different name. All right. Um, we’re talking about over marketing over marketing. This is a, uh, a bothersome thing for you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, i think it’s probably bothersome to everyone. That’s. Why it’s not successful? Yeah, it’s. In the long run, it annoys people and they turn off. Okay, i think that’s true. You know, maybe we’ll look att cem symptoms of over marketing so that you can do some self assessment. I think it’s it’s, probably one of these things is much easier to see in other people which may be coming totally right. I think it’s definitely hard to self diagnose your organization as an over marketer and instead very easy to look at other communications, other websites, what have you and feel like? Oh my gosh. You know and just to be clear, when i say over market and maybe this is a point of clarification between the two of us, i am curious how you define it. But for me, over marketing is when you market everything equally instead of choosing as an organization what your priorities are. Okay, so it seems very scattershot the marketing then from that those kinds of organizations very scattershot, everything is equally urgent. Everything is equal, equally impactful. Everything is, you know equally the thing that you want people to do right, then yeah. Okay, interesting might might my sense of it is it’s it’s i’m more looking at the frequency you know, if i get too many emails too many if i see your twitter you know, blowing up my twitter stream you know, i see i see too much from you it’s it’s too much it well in however, you define the time but e i’m seeing too much, um, well, and i think that that frequency piece could is, you know, one of the ways that over marketing manifest, because you could also say that it, um, you know, separate from frequency, it could just be type it could be that you are just like your web site is, you can’t even navigate it because every single thing has to have its own space on your home page that’s the call to action and whatever, you know, there’s different ways that it might manifest, but frequency certainly is a big one. Ok? And christie’s bleed over. I mean, you know, if your if your website has everything is an equally high priority, then that’s the trouble you were, you know, that’s, the trouble that you’re that bothers you the most is that every everything is urgent going on and everything has a page, every page is called action. You know, his first came to me as an idea because someone sent me an email with i printed it. It’s literally the the email signature is a half a page and i did not printed in eighteen point five i put it in twelve point fund. A very reasonable size. I’m this person’s email signature is a half takes up a half a page, right? I’m sure that the emails they’re sending two people are, you know, a very reasonable, like hi, tony, and then a couple sentences and thanks so much. And yet their signature is three times that. Yeah, yeah. Or more. It’s, you know, there’s itt’s. Well, i gave it away. It’s a he you know, it’s it’s it’s filled up with i mean there’s like zoho linked in you are el there’s a well there’s there’s web sites. There’s a you are elves, but then they’re not linked. And then separately there’s www the length number one w w was like number two and number three and there’s the mailing address and there’s. Ah, fax number off a twenty eighteen a fax number on then there’s and then there’s some congratulate, you know, self promotion stuff about anniversaries. How long he’s been in different lines of business and it’s it’s a half a page. So that’s what? Put this on my radar? You know, i guess i’ve subconsciously i’ve probably been thinking noticed it certainly, but tio got into my consciousness and i asked you about it and you said, whoa drives me crazy. So so here we are here we are. I’m just commiserating in the things that drives, but it’s for a good purpose, we’re helping where i’m not complained, my larry david, i’m not i’m not complaining, i’m helping, but, you know, what’s so interesting to me about that, like, the starting place where this conversation is that so many organizations, i don’t think, ever think about the signature line of there down both from the perspective that that, uh, i mean, that’s, you know, hundreds if you count all of your different staff, hundreds of messages a day to community members that could be reinforcing your organization’s brand or voice or mission having a standard, you know, signature block for everyone in your staff that, you know, great, everybody has the right information there, we probably don’t need to list our fax machine, you know, for all of those things because i see so many times where you know, one person, one organization writes at one way another person you can’t they don’t have a signature block, all you see is like, thanks, amy and me, but who? Are you, you know, co-branded spectrum that’s a missed place for just reinforcing the brand of the organization, but so few organizations know that you’re their signature block is kind of a passive called toe action space. Um, and at intend, we test that and we have a we use our goal for non-profits account, and that allows us if anyone listening uses the google suite for your organizations, you have, you know, females, you know, you could just administer as an organization what everyone’s you could add, like a call to action at the bottom of of the signature, and you don’t have to worry that some staff forgot to put it in, like, you could just administer that, and it is immediately in place for all of your emails, and we change that regularly, but we also track that and, you know, there are people that click on that signature link where we’re promoting that and you see and actually click through and register. So it is a place to call people to action. It is not necessarily a place to successfully call them toe action with eighteen different things that you’re saying, you know, it needs to just be one and have it be something that’s actually relevant to why you’re emailing people vs maybe, you know, links all of these different awards and promotions. You actually test different signatures. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Eminently doable. Eminently testable. You know us, we test everything. Okay. That’s, you technology network? Yes. Bonem all right. So let’s, let’s encourage some self assessment. We just have about a minute or so before before taking the first break. Um, i thought of i thought of some symptoms that you might that that that maybe hitting you in the face if you’re if your engagement numbers are declining, if you’re if you’re of actual follower numbers or connections, if that’s, you know, if people are dropping off that way, so i thought of either one of those, you know, people might still be following you, but they’re not engaging that’s, that’s bad or they might just stop following you or being connected. No thing can in fact, tonight, adam a nuance to those numbers. Certainly it’s healthy to have people stop following you on twitter or toe unsubscribes miree male because it means people are reading it and it no longer, you know the priority in their life, it’s not the topic that they care about it’s. Fine, you don’t need to feel bad of someone on subscribe to the newsletter but that’s the point you’re making tony is that if you are getting in ten people unsubscribes sections one new person subscribing then your ratio is a little off you want tohave, you know more people continuing to subscribe. Then you have a fall back off. Thank you for refining my point. Thank you. I mean, i mean that generally we gotta take a break. Take a break. Tell us enough with the talis moughniyah. Lt’s you’ve heard them. You’ve heard them from charities that referred companies for credit card processing and, of course, those charities air getting that revenue each month that long tail you’ve heard the talis moughniyah, lt’s from companies who are using tello’s for credit card processing. I bet you could use more revenue. Tell us long stream of revenue. You know how this works? You refer cos they take on tell owes you the non-profit get fifty percent of the revenue from those fees. Watch the video at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now. Back to amy sample board. Thank you for that indulgence. Yes. All right. So, indeed, big numbers, you know, that’s bad and unsustainable. You know, you’ve got your tenant followers a day and one new follower, your that’s that’s, not sustainable. Um, let’s. See, um, if you i thought you know how about reading your own stuff reading your own to spend a little time romping through your own, you know, your own twitter stream your own instagram, facebook, these things boring you your own website, have you read? Have you read the last a couple of weeks of content on your website? A few if you have something that’s regularly updated that that often does it bore you? I would say that’s a bad somebody i think what’s interesting about that suggestion and that so many people we’ll overlook is that we, of course i have read all of it listed it, right? So the idea that we would go back and look at it feels like some time wasted because, of course we wrote those tweets. Are we, you know, posted those pictures? Never, but the value in what you’re suggesting is not look at any of those. Single post it’s look your feed without looking at your whole timeline or whatever, right? Like, just look at for twitter, profile and all the content in order that’s been posted or your instagram profile or your website, because that’s where you can really start to see from your followers perspective or your community’s perspective. Whoa, you know, this is this is what it felt like, or this is what it sounded like. I think that’s something we don’t do often enough it’s organizations because we don’t feel like we need to, because we’ve already reviewed all that content when we posted it individually. Yeah, we wrote it ourselves see, this is this is why you’re an author, co author of two books, and i’ve never written a book because you you put a finer point on it. No, i’m the shallow guy, i got this idea and then you refine it, give it depth and meaning and eso like on the comic book writer, and you’re the you’re the writer of books that actually get published by, you know, by well known publishing companies. Yeah, but i haven’t even done one of those yet. Yeah, ok. Er and you just and i’ve been thinking about it, and you just heard it. And you you put you put, you add depth and, uh, greater meaning to it. So thank you. What a team. You know, good teamwork. Yeah, work. If i didn’t have this show, you could because, you know, i don’t think you need me to get started, but i need you to add the depth and the color enough beating myself up. Okay. Um, no. I’m having fun doing it. So what are you? Nobody. Nobody listens to this show anyway, so nobody here’s the nobody here is the self loathing. Oh, that’s not true. Thousands of people listening. Yes. Don’t remind everybody said you have more in your list in this moment. Don’t remind me more of my list more my list. What of these of these things? I have more. I have things on my list. I can add, um, i have one more staff complaints if the staff, if the staff is feeling that their content is you know, however, they describe stale o r, you know, repetitive. You want to pay a lot of attention to that because they’re the ones producing the content. So if staff or if you’re hearing from staff, i think that’s a bad sign, what do you what do you have totally eye? You know, now i feel obligated to add depth and color all of your suggestions, but the piece that i would add there is i feel like it’s, not just staff saying that it’s repetitive, but the conversations that you might over here amongst your staff that are kind of like a warning sign warning flag that you’re maybe doing over marketing is when people are saying, you know, i’m marketing this in someone else’s say, no, the postcards you know, went out yesterday for this someone else, eh? Zoho on twitter were saying that you have people, you know, you’re cross team isn’t talking about the same thing, then you’re probably doing, you know, equal parts promotion of five different things at once and that just naturally not going to be a successful your community members can’t take in five different request to do something that are different and actually do them all for you. Very bad sign if there’s conflicting messages across your across your team, i thought it was this i thought this was the priority, right? Okay, what else? What else do you have on your symptom symptom list? Well, i don’t have as many symptoms. I have a list that’s, more like things that you khun d’oh. Okay, um, yeah, okay, we could switch over there. I’m game for some guests. I would say you’re not a baby, we can talk about a few things underneath is i really liked the idea for organizations, you know, of course, we all know that we should have, like, a content calendar and marketing plan and all of these things. But the reality is i’m going toe just operate within reality that we don’t have those things or we have them and they’re not updated or or or whatever. So instead of saying, oh, just go finish off that editorial calendar that you should have instead of that recommendation, i’d say just pick a team. It could be every month it could be based on certain weeks that, you know, we’re leading up to events, whatever. And having a team i think, really helps people across the organization, you know, in whichever team there in know that they can still talk about their team. Or their program or their service. But do it in a way that still aligned and advancing whatever over our james focus organizationally needs to be the priority. So it maybe we can use in ten for an example. Course i could speak to that, so we might say, ok, this month’s needs to be focused on the ntc, but we still have membership campaigns that happened, we still have course promotions that need to happen, you know, where there’s still all this other work, but we don’t need to be saying register for the nbc become a member. Sign up for this course that’s happening next week, you know, apply for this program because that’s not going that’s, where we get into the half a page email signature, you know, someone said saint arthur, steam is auntie si lets people say culwell instead of just talking about membership, i’ll talk about how members engaged at the ntc instead of just talking about, of course, next week, i’ll say this course has a similar topic at the mtc, and this is a way for you to continue your learning. You know, it just gives people more oven umbrella that they can talk about their programs while still staying. Kind of on message. Okay, yeah. I can i can i can toss out one for recommendation, and that is to put yourself on your own lists, make sure that you are seeding yourself so that you’re seeing the feed, the posts, hearing the podcast, whatever it is the same way, same frequency as everybody else. Yeah, and then had a way to do that. It’s not just getting your own organizations emails, because to your point, there are lots of different channels were using in ten does this and i’ve talked to a number of our other organizations who do this, too, whether you use black, which is kind of an internal messaging tool, or you have an internet or whatever tool you’re using for kind of internal content and conversation. Most of those tools there’s probably a way where you can have your organization’s account, your twitter account, instagram show up in there and that way you have essentially, you know, one channel in slack or whatever you used that just is showing all of your tweets, so not only can you see when a tweet has gone out, but what it was about, and then you can very easily scroll through and say oh, my gosh, way! Look at what we have been saying or what we haven’t been saying or whatever on dh you don’t have to say, okay, now everyone on staff has to create a twitter account and go follow the organization and check it every day. You can just pull it into a central system so everyone can see it. I see. Excellent. Okay, okay. She’s, the co author times two. Amazing. All right, let’s, take another break. Okay, let me take a break text to give you’ll get more revenue because text to give makes e-giving easy for your donors. If your donors can send a text message, they could make a donation to u not only simple also affordable and secure the way to get more info and to claim your special listener offer you text npr two, four, four, four, nine nine nine couldn’t be any simpler. Npr. Four, four, four, nine, nine, nine we’ve got about six more minutes for over marketing with amy um, we run really medicine, okay? Please go ahead. So this suggestion is coming from a place where at and ten, we have definitely seen return on the work, but also in recognition that if you’re if you’re organization is suffering from over marketing, you’re already putting in the time to do a bunch of work so let’s just move that work to something else, and that is the idea of promo, okay, it’s, not just for your big annual fundraiser or, you know, once a year event for anything programs for things that are year round, even creating again, you’re already doing this work because you’re already over marketing, so instead of putting it all out as an organization, all the work you did to come up with those tweets or those block post or whatever put them into, you know, a a shared document or a wiki or google doc or whatever, and instead of sharing them on your own feed, share them with community members that can that are interested in that that maybe participate in that program before whatever that they want to be out in the community scene is talking about your work and promoting it and it’s still getting out there. People are still hearing about your programs, but you aren’t saying okay, well, our twitter feed today is going to have to cover all ten of these topics you say today we’re covering this topic, but we know that we’ve supported community members and they have access to these promo kits. Tio help us spread the word excellent using yes using your most dedicated constituents, friends, followers sort of a back channel way of getting them to help you promote board members boardmember could be idea for that, right? Okay, are for sure, all right, i’m going to get one out because i know you’re going to say it, i’m gonna get out first, okay? If you feel you’re over marketing on promoting your own work, share the work of others instead. So the obvious, you know, sharing on facebook, facebook shares, they’re so they’re so rare. Now facebook shares please share other people’s content obviously twitter, the re tweets on twitter or you go or spend that time going out and finding, you know, curating the content of others and sharing that because, you know, it’s relevant to your community. I know you’re going to say that yes, well and i think something to remember to when when you’re thinking about content and mixing it up so that it isn’t just you talking. About the thing that you want people to do over and over, another place where you could look to content in addition to sharing, of course, you know that i’m always going to say, share other people’s work and rise up the community is just as you are doing, too be the one that reminds your community that they can take a break, that they can have fun, that the world is really hard, it feels right now, and so much is going on, and we’re always asking our community to take action to support us, whether it’s fund-raising or advocacy or local actions. But maybe you are also building community and building trust with them by being the voice that says, you know, we hope that you take a saturday off and just be with your family or go to the zoo her, you know, go for a hike and and you aren’t always calling them toe action that you’re also treating them as full people that need to take a break and be healthy too. Yeah, that space space critical. We had steve rio on last week talking a lot about that he’s. Interesting do you know, do you know steve rio, bright webb? I don’t know. And i know i heard he’s, based in vancouver. Andi has twenty five employees. Maybe that includes contractors, but they’re all over north america. Very interesting. Okay. Um, they do. They have. They have virtual meditations. You probably heard me or not. Uh, not not mandatory optional, but they do a forty five minute virtual meditation every day a couple times a week. Sorry. Three times, three times a week? Um, yeah, i think yeah. Mindfulness, you know, presence. Oh, and, you know, there’s there’s research that shows that that that helps you be be more efficient in your in your workday. Um, every sample would really have, like, two minutes left. Um, you have another. You wantto recommend something else. If you feel you’re over marketing, do you have another recommendation? While the other piece that i was going to suggest is kind of the office that and that is just in case there are listeners who are, like, no, our problem is that we never marketed anything we never, you know, actually promote ourselves because it’s all you know, maybe they’re your web site is is just kind of content, because your programs or your round and you don’t feel like you have timely things, so if somehow you are on the opposite end of the conversation and feel like you need more help finding ways teo to market, i would say, just look through whether that’s, your social media accounts, your website, whatever and look for those empty spaces places that i think organizations could really take advantages putting in in their twitter bio or their instagram bio, or whatever that you know, a girl that shows up right there and the short kind of narrative box you have to write something, put what feels more like a timely kind of a call to action or reference a campaign that you’re running or whatever that is, and put a girl in there that doesn’t just go to your home page, same with your email signature. Look for those empty spaces where you can make it feel more timely instead of just the permanent kind of here’s our home page here’s, what we do here is our mission statement she’s amy sample ward she’s the author i’m not you’ll find her at, you’ll find her and amy sample ward. Dot or go! And also you should be following the woman for god’s sake, twitter is so much wisdom coming follow-up for god’s sake that’s the end of it just for pizza. Just follow at amy rs ward. Thank you, amy. Thank you, tony. My pleasure always next week. Maria semple returns with real estate for prospect research. If you missed any part of today’s show i deceit, you find it on tony martignetti dot com. We are sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com by telus credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four nine nine, nine a creative producers clam meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. E-giving cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative network, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c buy-in. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Yeah. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com hyre. You’re listening to talking on turn their network at www. 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Nonprofit Radio for June 15, 2018: Avoid Website Ageism & Grants For Newbies

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Jessica Meister, Matt Dragon & Justin Greeves: Avoid Website Ageism
How do you design your site to meet the needs of those 65 and over? What about testing with seniors, and accessibility requirements for federally-funded nonprofits? Our panel answers it all. They’re Jessica Meister with Oral Health America; Matt Dragon from Charity Navigator; and Justin Greeves at Porter Novelli. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

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Janice Chan & Danielle Faulkner: Grants For Newbies
Janice Chan and Danielle Faulkner cover the basics of researching and submitting grants. They reveal free resources to find out what’s available, share tips on tracking deadlines, help you prepare for online submissions, and more. Janice is with Johns Hopkins Institutions and Danielle is from Baltimore Community Foundation. (Also recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into foley dupe aqua if you questioned why you shouldn’t miss today’s show, avoid website ageism how do you design your site to meet the needs of those sixty five and over? What about testing with seniors and accessibility requirements for federally funded non-profits our panel answers at all. They’re jessica meister with orel health america, matt dragon from charity navigator and justin grieves at porter novelli that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference also grants for newbies. Janice chan and daniel faulkner covered the basics of researching and submitting grants they reveal free resource is to find out what’s available. Share tips on tracking deadlines help you prepare for online submissions and mohr. Janice is with johns hopkins institutions, and danielle is from baltimore community foundation that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference. I’m tony steak, too thank you. Responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers witness cps. Dot com and by tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tello’s here is a void website ageism welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference. We’re coming to you from new orleans at the convention center all our ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits this conversation is with jessica meister, matt dragon and justin grieves. Jessica is the web user experience specialist at orel help america. Matt is director of engineering at charity navigator and justin greaves is senior vice president of research. Porter novelli jessica justin welcome, thank you for having welcome to non-profit radio your workshop topic is i’m not the dinosaur. You’re the dinosaur. How your website should keep pace with america’s aging population okay, let’s, start down the end there. Justin, who thinks i look like john mcenroe? He he spilled performance that happen. But i remind you of john macro at least at least happy. Yeah, right now. Not the tennis racket slamming john macaron? Not yet. I haven’t gotten there yet. Yeah, yeah. Don’t give me cause, okay? What what’s the issue here, justin way, talking about websites that are built specifically for senior population, like sixty five it over or accessibility of all websites for the for the elder population? Yeah, yeah, i think i think one or the other, but we’re taking a step back from that and looking at everybody and really looking good. How in my part of the presentation, how people are accessing information generally in society and looking at that websites are a part of that news is a part of that social media is a part of that radio shows are a part of that, right? So seeing how those different audiences by age or by other characteristics are doing things online, are getting information. So we really took a broad view about toe understand that, and there are a couple of interesting trends that we found in our research. Porter novelli we do an ongoing program called styles, which is abroad be of americans lifestyle okay, we’ll get into the research. Remind me if i don’t get teo. I don’t know about research company. Okay, sametz what what’s your sense of this. How do you want to open up the topic sure. So charity navigator biggest user percentages is sixty five and over. And if you lump in fifty five and over it’s really a majority nineties, we in ninety percent, ninety percent, probably around eighty percent. Ok, seventy five percent. So we we have a lot of those users. As i covered in the presentation. Over seventy five percent of our donors to us are seventy five are fifty five and over. So that that’s something that we’re constantly considering in our website design communicating with our users and our donors. Okay, jessica, you’re our user experience specialist. And what what? How do you want to open this topic for the elder population? Eso my belief is that technology should be for everybody, and it shouldn’t be limited to just young people, um and that’s on all of us to create technology and websites and designs that air usable by every single person. I think. It’s a negative stereotype that older adults seniors above the age of sixty five don’t use technology and it’s absolutely not true. Both justin and i have found plenty of research. That is completely metoo contrary. Okay, thank you for that. All right, not. Now that i’m sixty five, i’m approaching now, but, uh, i’m not even in the face, you know? I am in the fifty five over. Yeah, i am in that one, okay, i did remember what i want to talk to you about the research, so i want i do want to start with in terms of how thie older population is using data differently using is using technology differently. Yeah, please, just beyond, i think justcause point it’s ah it’s a myth and it’s a long held belief that older people are behind in technology and don’t use things but what we found in our styles, research that i mentioned before is half of people in the silent generation that’s, age seventy two and above have a smartphone mobile device that they’re using and half half seventy two and over half of our subs on dh in boomers, which you’re you’re, you’re a boom here, boomer young, i’m young, you’re young boomer. Yeah, almost genetics are seventy five percent of boomers have smartphones and that’s the primary way that they’re accessing all sorts of things. News your radio show information about websites e-giving donations online so you got to think about the population, which the vast majority of givers of high givers are also older people. You’re not going to be as effective if you’re just still mailing them stuff, right? They need thio interact and access just the way we all do, and they want to do it on the whole device. Mostly. Okay, okay, you want to add more to the research summary? That’s ah, pretty fair summary. So justin’s work has been primarily in quantitative data and looking at it from, like a sky level view. Getting these good statistics on what usage rate looks like. My work has been more qualitative when you actually sit down and interact with have a senior interact with either a website or a tool or technology, you asked them to use it, completing a particular task, and, yeah, the vast majority of them are wanting to do it on mobile as well. And especially from a non-profit perspective, it’s important to keep in mind that sometimes the on ly access someone may have to the internet is, in fact, on a mobile device. They may not have the means or access to like a desktop computer, and so that was something that we found in our research when we redesign tooth wisdom dot org’s, which is a website designed to provide education and accessed older adults to dental clinics, affordable ones in their area. When we did this study, we found that they really wanted to be able to search and that they may be doing this from a mobile device. Yeah, okay, okay, and in the middle, matt at a charity navigator, what was your part in the presentation so way have this predominantly older user base, but we’re also seeing a lot of growth in the twenty five to thirty, twenty four to thirty five year old user community that we’re seeing, so we’re struggling, too make angels to the site that that appeal to a younger generation, but not turn off or lose our older users in the process. So we have a lot of a lot of sort of feedback and help type questions that we get from older users where they just aren’t used to interacting with with websites like younger generations are on dso we’re always trying to sort of factor that in as we make changes to the site or or consider how we present information on the site. It’s. Time for a break pursuant. Their new paper is the digital donation revolution. I always love all the pursuant free resource is very generous. How do you keep up in our one click to buy amazon world? Can you use more revenue? The paper has five proven to work online. Fund-raising tactics that will save you money. It’s on the listener landing page. Of course. Tony dahna slash pursuing radio now back to avoid website ageism. There’s another layer to this two, which is the federally funded organizations. Yes, by law that required, you have to have accessible, abide by and it’s called section five o eight and it was voted on and passed through congress last year, january twenty seventeen and it just went into effect january eighteen o and this is any organization that receives any federal funding whatsoever, regardless of if it’s one hundred percent or if it’s two percent they receive any federal dollars whatsoever, they’re obliged to adhere to accessibility guidelines there, primarily based on the w keg, which is the world wide web consortiums, accessibility, content and six ability guidelines. Okay, thank you for question that. Because we have george in jail on tony? Yes, i apologize. You just walk in front of the prison? No. Yes, i wanted teo put it out there because it’s it’s an important resource. So it’s w c a g and it’s finding online. You see a g? Yes. Okay. Okay. So, so any any federal money, you’re getting grants for service or whatever, but anything at all and the critically this law applies to not just your public facing website, but anything that you use internally as well. So even if it’s just in internal that on ly the other staff members see all the only your millennial staff is using correct yes, it’s pretty burdens. Yeah, so it’s it’s pretty it’s pretty massive. But this is especially critical to seniors and older adults because forty percent of people above the age of sixty five have some sort of disability compared to twenty percent of the general population. And so, if you’re did, if you’re designing for seniors, you’re designing with accessibility in mind. Okay, dahna let’s. See where should we go testing you? So you do the individual testing. So your roll. Justin is more than quantitative research. About bigger, bigger picture recent yeah, my role in the presentation was sort of the higher level trends and another another thing that we all talked about in all near and dear buses, the impact of social media on things you know, we hear a lot about facebook and twitter and linked in and other things nowadays. And so again, there’s another myth that, well, seniors aren’t on technology and they’re definitely not on social media, which is absolutely false also good. The majority of seniors are on some form of social media, most likely facebook, and so if you think about you need to think about how to meet them where they are just convention on our in our engagement earlier today and that’s going to be mostly on facebook, you know, if you’re trying to get people and get them to interact, they’re going to be in a special channel, they’re going to be in facebook, they’re probably not going to be on twitter very often. There’s another myth twitter’s everywhere only thirteen percent of americans used twitter on a regular basis and of course, we all know one of them right here two hundred, chief, so thirteen percent use it on a regular basis thirteen percent of americans use twitter, so? So if you have an older population, you probably shouldn’t spend too much time on your twitter strategy, which is something we worry about, p r all the time you should think about facebook and think about other channels and think about websites and e mail because that’s, where you’re going to find i like coming back to you not because you thought i looked like john mackerel, but, you know, so it provides the broader context. Yeah, i was okay. And then jessica, you’ve done the individual you use your studies? Yes, sitting with seniors watching them way have devices that watch their eyes on a cz they navigate website. No screen reading studies are available from larger group screen reading, so that technology exists you, khun tracking studies tracking studies labbate which yeah, and then those can develop heat maps that will indicate where someone looks on a site but generally speaking, in terms of how seniors look at a website, it’s not very different from how most of us do most of us like to scan websites, we don’t like to read them. The average amount of time you spend on a website is between around single web pages between thirty seconds and sixty seconds. There’s not a whole lot of time, people, people just try to get what they can and they leave on dh that’s true for seniors as well. They’re there for a purpose way know that they don’t come in through the home page. They came from somewhere else they were looking at or looking for something specific, they link to you, they found it, they leave, yes, so he might try to engage them somehow that gets into, you know, marketing and the web site design, but but leave that aside buy-in they came for something specific, and they’re leaving after they get it correct and it’s interesting, because as webb has evolved over time, the home page has become less and less important because, as you said, they’re coming in from google and they’re landing on the pages that they’re looking for. And so for example, on the homepage is right overrated, for example, on our website, tooth wisdom dot or only eleven percent of our users come in through the home page and so it’s interesting. When you’re doing time evaluation oh, how much time should we think about the home page? Maybe eleven percent of your time, matt, i’m guessing. Does that vary for you? Is home page more important for charity? Navigator it’s actually less so so ten percent of our told my intuition eyes a data driven discussion. Ten percent of our total web page views heir of the home page so not not even landing on it. Just visiting it any point during your visit? Ok? Eso there’s there’s ah it’s a similar thing and i think, really the we mentioned five oh, wait like five oh, wait doesn’t talk doesn’t speak it all to how people move through your sight how they locate information on your site it’s about the visibility, the readability, the color contrast so it’s it’s still very important to talk to your users do the kind of studies that jessica did because you’re not going to know you can be one hundred percent five oh, wait compliant and have xero users able tto do what they’re trying to do when they come to your site. That’s absolutely true there’s a difference between accessibility, compliance and accessibility and practice, you have a loss that’s a minimum standard, right? But this is not going as far as you’re describing now. So, matt, you you’re straddling an interesting position because you said, uh, the elder population is most of your users, but you’re the younger population is growing, so you’re constantly straddling. How do you how do you rationalize that? So part of it is we we addressed it to our channels, so so our website, our facebook tend to have an old, older audience. Our twitter followers, as justin noted, tend to be younger, so we can we can sort of target content that way. Another big part of what we have to look at is just we can’t way sort of can never make a really drastic change to something on our website, because that will throw our senior audience even though a younger audiences is almost surprised when you go when i go to a website and nothing’s changed since the last time i’m there that’s sort of the anomaly, but with supporting older users, we’ve made what we thought were very simple changes to our search results page, and it throws people off and they don’t. Understand that it’s not the final destination, it’s just you have to click through to get to the data, and people are people ask us, you know, where did all the data go? Why did you take away all this information when it’s just they’re looking at a searchers all not at the page that used to be looking at so we go, let me go to justin. This is this has implications around the it’s, the way seniors air using the technology. So you’ve demystified ho are not demystified debunk these myths that, as jessica did to seniors or not using technology, they’re not engaged with it, but how they’re using it and their understanding of it is different. I mean, it’s not as sophisticated as someone who grew up with it. Yeah, it has more exposure. Yeah, i think it’s probably not a sophisticated, but they bring their kind of wisdom and life experience to it. So another thing is, what do you really believe when when you see things on the internet? We did this siri’s that things based on the whole fake news and other stuff to look at, how many people actually get news from facebook believe the news and what do they do have someone post something that they don’t like? So what we found is only about one in ten people now believe what they see in social media is news good. Only about a third of those people click through to actually look at the original content about, like, three percent it’s a very small number on then. But the other interesting thing is seniors less likely to have this one bad behavior, which is diferente de follow people who have a different opinion than them? The younger generations are much more likely tio unfriend or unfollowed someone let’s say, tony of a different opinion than idea about politics or some social thing. Seniors are going to ignore it. Younger people are going basically opt out of you and what that means and you feeling about the implication is we all are just star in our own personal echo chamber, right? What we hear, what we want to hear, we’re only talking people have the same opinion and i think that’s a very dangerous point, you know, america’s based on diversity in the melting pot, and if you’re not hearing people from other cultures or believes our angles, whether you think they’re right or not, you should at least listen. Seniors do that younger people do not very interesting. Okay, so dahna matt, i’m interested in what was the little change you made to the search page, that through seniors that you thought was not a big deal, so we actually we service mohr information onto the search result and gave you mohr functionality via the searchers, always doing things like the result s o that the fact that all that functionality and information was showing up on the search page, people didn’t didn’t understand anymore that they had to click in to a charity’s page to see that high that maurin dept is more in depth. They thought they thought you had a cat in a diddle, the right all the all the information down to just what they’re seeing on this screen, right? The one after the after i click search. Exactly, okay, kapin ate it. Is that the right use of the word? Shorten? Keep it simple, alright, reduced, all right, got it. Some best practices. You ah, from your seminar from the workshop description, you promised them best practices for helping the over sixty five, population sharing you s oh, they’re posted on the handshake from our session, which is eighteen ntcdinosaur okay, very good. So we have them posted there, and you should also be ableto flip through materials and find access to those slides. So some of the overarching principles the first one, which is very important is be big, be bold and be obvious. And so this has to do with create things in large text. High contrast, is it good enough? Text tohave a texting, larger obstruction lodging button it’s not that it’s a it’s a good thing to add it’s a nice feature, but you also have to expect quite a lot of people won’t see that available on dh so fun side, but if you make the guy larger, big that’s not still not adequate, so that goes that’s. A lot of people just will ignore that part of the screen, usually because they don’t visually identify it as the thing they’re looking for, like you said, but making text minimum of a year, she educates. The host brings me along. I’m very gracious. I’m grateful for that. Okay? Minimum size, i think, is recommended at seventeen point font for website. Okay, what’s the way know what the average is? We know what typical website is. A lot of people have it smaller than that because standard booker print size is twelve point and so a lot of people rely on that print standard over fifty percent larger yeah, roughly almost fifty percent larger than the standard book. Okay, okay, big, bold and what was it obvious? And so matt and i talked about this senior sometimes having a difficult knowing which items air interact oppcoll and so we recommend, for example, of recognizing the highlight like they don’t know that, like a button is a button on dh, so you might need literal signifiers to make it look like it’s a three dimensional button with a shadow that you would push in three in real life that’s a literal signifier, but it gives a visual indication that something’s interactive ble and i think literal signifier that central ok previous conversation today i was talking with the woman and sheila warren about bitcoin blockchain that you’re talking about the wallet wallet in blockchain. Is that is that what it was? What was the literal signals? That a literal signifier? I would say so i would say so when we refer to something that’s traditional for something that’s new because blockchain is just yes, people just discovering what it even means or how people think of a floppy disk. Us the same little signified, right? Right. A literal signifier. Yeah. Okay, little signal. I always wondered what those were, but when you see a little bank for for your for your savings or something, okay, little signifier, thank you for that. Your host aggression, right? That phrase down okay. And having nothing to do with this conversation, but or very little to do with it. Okay, i used know that matt had talked about how some of the users on their site had also struggled with things that weren’t necessarily obviously buttons. But we’re click. Okay. You got some. You got some best practices for dealing with the sixty five over. Yes. So? So one of the things is is just to make a literal call out. So one of the things we did teo help with. Our search results problem was making sure that there was there was words that said mohr details or more info, something that even though it’s a link and it’s blue and it looks just like every other charity name link that’s in the search results, the fact that it was more of a call to action and clearly something that if you’re saying, oh, i wonder where the details went, you could click on that thing, and it would take you to the following paige so just things that that sort of are very clear next steps or calls to action. The other thing that we’ve done is pages that might be a dead end, like if you click into a history of donation and you’re looking at an individual donation you made and you want to get back to the list for a lot of younger users don’t know they have to hit the back button, but we have we’ll actually put a button that says, you know, return to my donations so that it’s very clear that there’s always a way out from from whatever page you’re on and sort of similar, just sort of having bread crumbs. Sort of at the top of a page that would list sort of the hierarchy within the sight of the page that you’re currently at. So any anything that that sort of keeps people when, when they might think, oh, now i’m stuck. I don’t know where to go next e-giving them sort of an escape valve or an obvious thing to click on has the next step what are the breadcrumbs? What breadcrumbs on pages so breadcrumbs would be like if if you’re if you’re at the top of the charity navigator page and you click into a category and then it cause it will show you the category you clicked on as we list the causes within that cattle. Are you okay? Trail that contrary? Yeah, apple does that. I think they pioneered a lot of websites. Will have that sort of at the top. You are in the nest, right? Baizman nesting. Okay. Okay, justine, i don’t want to leave you out of the best practices conversation, but you know that you’re part of the bone, and i cracked. I definitely have about okay. And all of us share this theory, which is do more research. I mean, i think that the number one stumbling block block that people have and mac gave great examples and just cut you have to know your audience and do research to understand how they’re using your product or your website or whatever and sit down talk of them. It doesn’t have to be expensive, it doesn’t have to be a long process that could be a small focus group of granny’s at home or it could be your friends and family, but do research and have a discipline way. One cautionary note that i’ll put out. I don’t want to get in the acronym jail, but be calm argast drug in jail don’t ruin my little signals are like in jail, the literacy that are the literary sent a liberation, but the idea is don’t collect more data than you need because the gdpr is coming general data protection requirements from europe and so everyone in the united states, if they deal with european counterparts, is going to be required. Tio give people who are citizens of europe and the uk, the ability tio, act like they never visited your sight. Are they you know they could be for gotten and it’s very hard, the finds are extremely expensive. They’re meant to be business shutting fines and so don’t collect the any personally identifiable information you don’t absolutely need and have a way for people opt out of that, let them know what you have and have a way to get rid of it because that’s the requirement and starts at the end of may know yeah, i’ve been doing a lot of reading about that. We covered it on non-profit radio a couple months ago. Yeah, yeah it’s a tough one. But again, you know, the my final answer is you do research, it could be informal can be formal, but gets a users and have a feedback channel because we live in a dynamic world and people expect change. Okay, although matt, when people see change, they don’t always know how to react to it. And sometimes they get panicky. Yeah, and that’s the kind of thing that having a group to test that with, you know i can help you sort of a void that that stumbling block so so even even just being ableto put it in front of a small group of people who are in a representative portion of your audience, you know, putting putting in front of my developers is not a way to know if if are our older audiences going tto find a problem, you have some seniors come out to new jersey, you’re you’re in a small town into joe’s we are alleged wort know what is not gonna rock gonna rock. So so we want we it’s something we want to do more of way. Haven’t we haven’t done it? Jessica’s been ableto really incorporated into her process much more than we have. Okay, we do it all the time. And the thing we always say is you get out of your own conference room. Talk to real people, i think that’s very good advice for a lot of it. Also rates back to what you were talking about. You know, night narrowing your circle of of influence that you allow in, you know, but let’s, get out a little that’s. Good for life. Okay? We have to have, like, a minute or so left. Who wants to wants to put the finishing touches on this subject? A little motivation. Jessica, i’m gonna give it to me, okay? Because i started down that end with with justin, so let’s go. All right, so i think, oh, my gosh, no, i’m on the way they were talking to a friend, you know? We said, you know what i’ve been doing this work? Why is this so important? I think it’s very important, especially in the non-profit community that we don’t just talk the talk, but we walk the walk, and so if we say we’re trying to serve a specific population, it’s very important that we do the work to actually do that. And i believe that building tools and resources and technology for seniors is a way that we can live our mission and serve that population. That’s it rubber. Okay, she’s, jessica meister webb and you ex specialists at oral health america. Well, she’s not also mad dragon, but seated next to her is matt dragon and he’s, a director of engineering at charity navigator, and justin greaves, senior vice president of research porter novelli, justin sorry, jessica and justin. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. This interview has been sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc and i thank you for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagener, cpas they go beyond the numbers. They’re covering your essentials nine, ninety and audit before they go beyond the numbers. So first is the essentials. Then they go beyond the numbers. Check the matter whether cps dot com start your due diligence there. Then use the contact page or better go in real life. Pick up the phone and talk to you. Eat hooch doom the partner there. Wetness cpas dot com now time for tony’s take two. Thank you. However you’re listening live podcast am fm affiliate if you’re getting my insider alerts each week thank you. I am very glad i’m very grateful that you are with us. Thank you very much. Now let’s, go to grants for newbies. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center new orleans. This interview, like all our ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits i guess now are janice chan she’s, a tech training specialist. For development and alumni relations. Maybe the tech training special, the one of the only are you the guy? I am a team of one seam of one. She is the tech training specialist in development and alumni relations for johns hopkins institutions, and daniel faulkner is donor engagement coordinator for baltimore community foundation. Ladies welcome. Thank you for having a son like you. Your topic is grant proposals for newbies, bootstrapping research and preparations so that’s perfect, actually, for our audience of twelve thousand small and midsize non-profits some of whom may not be doing grants don’t don’t have to get started on grant’s research. You don’t know how to start putting. Well, there’s a paper depends hyre anymore, but doing out online forms, you know, and that probably should be in the fund-raising mix. You think, daniel, for most be a consideration. Definitely it’s, it’s, it’s. A robust process. But once you get it, handle it it’s really easy to follow year after year. So if you could work it into your schedule it’s definitely worth going active. Okay. Okay, janice, anything you want to add to the motivation step i think you get it gets easier. The first one is always tough to figure out, and it gets easier as time goes on, so don’t get discouraged by exactly first one. Exactly number five will be easier than number one. Exactly. Okay, okay, let’s, talk about some of the research, you know. How do you how do you, uh, find out about grants that might be appropriate for u s o for me, i look for free and easy sources. We love free on free it’s always great. I will plug one, which is foundation center. They have a great website to find funding opportunities they have. If you in baltimore, if you go to a public library, you can actually access their account free. They’re free full membership, most libraries or institutions, educational institutions have a membership through them. So that’s a great resource. If you’re looking for nine nineties, you want information about funders? I use them a lot. Their office in d c is great because they’re really if you call, they’re willing to help you and they’re all volunteered face or they have classes webinars that are free. So i use that a lot in my day today foundation research you khun i’m sorry foundation sent to research. You could do any any of their affiliated library in that country. Exactly. There are many there that you don’t have to be a subscriber. You there so we can be who you want to do for your desktop. You won’t get as many features, but the features that are offered through their free on account justice. Good there are okay. The other other janice free resource is that we could take advantage of besides foundations dahna sure grantspace go for any federal funding and that’s that’s up your alley and you’re usually a lot of states will have a local council of grantmaker zor of foundations, community foundations, humor sort of have a consortium and you can sort of go to one place and get some of them, even have a common common form. Okay, okay. Others other we love free resource is anything besides, maybe your community group. I know. In new york, there’s new york regional duitz association of grantmaker is nigh rag. So there’s that goes well, the foundation center. Any others were involved when we have a bag, which is another resource, like a bag thing. Well, i would say community foundations are a great way. Usually most their websites give a general opportunity list of what’s going on for their fund holders. So in baltimore, we have over eight hundred funds that come through our foundation. So that’s a great source. If you know your community foundation, get in contact with them to see what’s available and how they can help. Okay? Okay, anymore i’ll keep asking. You say there are no more also like your state or local organization of a non-profit associations. So, maryland, the suspicion non-profit organizations has some of those. Resource is that you can, you know, make an appointment schedule to use as well. Ok, for research there, there for research research. Resource is also okay. Okay. Anything else? I think that covers everything the free and easy. The user friendly ones that are a great start there won’t overwhelm people. Those are really good sources to use when you’re first starting out. Okay. These are also for not only finding well grants, doing your own research around foundations that may fundez your fundez or work. These are all resource. Is that exactly that? Well, okay. Okay. What’s, the next step. So now we now we know where we should be applying. We’re taking it step by step. Danielle, where should we where do we go next? Well, for me, after i’ve done all the research, i have a proponent of writing one grant and then from there outsourcing it and using it to write many multi purpose. Exactly. I call it my my thanksgiving dinner of granting if you go one grantspace irv’s, everyone. So that’s, where most of my work comes in, i would say gathering information that pertinent to your organizations, so that might be your mission statement all your financial papers on the irs, things working with your program team to make sure you have the right lingo in a language down to explain the project that you’re want funding for take some real time to gather that all in one location. So when you sit down and write, you don’t have to go and have to go back and forth. I’m a really big component of doing all the hard work first, so then you can focus on the writing if you that’s not your strong point there’s also a point that’s tangential to that which is make sure you follow all the instructions exactly. Hide everything just for doesn’t really matter how burdensome you think it is. Yes. And they say twelve twelve point fonts on double do it, it’s not a suggestion. Find tabs? Yeah, ever. What was jonas finder town that they need to be labeled? Just do it. Okay, it’s like, in that sense, it drives me of dealing with government bureaucracy. I’m just they may ask things that don’t make sense to you, but and it may not even make sense to the people who are asking for it. It may have been twenty years ago, but just do it okay, just comply. You know you’re asking for their their support. You gotta comply, right? And i’d like to add a point to that to write figuring out like one of things we talked about our session was having a go or no go less right there’s things that yeah, there’s some hoops that you’re going to jump through it’s going to be worth it. But you also wanna they’re going to be some things that maybe is a stretch too far for organizations. Kind of taking you off mission. You’re kind of drifting. From things. So you want to make sure that that’s really feasible, invisible as well? Okay, that’s a very good point, especially in terms of mission, you know, it’s only it’s only sort of related to what you do, you know, they’re going to read through that, right? And you’re probably gonna be unsuccessful in the grant anyway, you know. So why try toe conform your work, tio what they’re looking for? Better to stick with exactly what you do, find funders for that makes it ok. But look at the different angles of what it is that you do that might be appealing to that funder, but it’s, so good to be at the end of day. What you’re actually trying to find accomplice, you gotta be on the same page, okay? Oppcoll you talk about i’m just drawing from what was in your session description? Oh, interpreting instructions is that is that basically what we’re talking about? Or is there more spending one? Yeah, just read them. I would have after you’ve written the actual brand and this is way after have someone not associated with the organization or maybe a co worker who’s, not in the process. Read the instructions of unread your grants so they can look at it from a different eye. Make sure you hit all the targets because if you’re in it and your writing it, you might think you answered that question correctly, but in reality he didn’t, and someone outside of your space well under sand so i would definitely, if you have the time, try to get someone outside of your world to read it and the instructions fired-up anything that janice you want to add, i think also, i don’t like to start with what’s needed less when i go through the instructions like, okay, let’s, before we can gather everything’s, make that checklist that i don’t lose something or i can get somebody else rolling on whatever i need, i need their help with. Okay. Last november, i hosted a panel at the foundation center. I’ve done a fair amount of speaking there. It was not a great writer or professional, but it was a panel of grayce grant oars, funders and one non-profit and the subject matter was building a relationship with the institution, even including at the applications, you know, some some explicitly say no calls. So oppcoll but others are more open to communication or maybe it’s no calls and, you know, we take emails, but talk a little about that early stage where you’re still rating, having getting questions answered, you know, not being afraid, anybody? Well, i’ve never come across a call for a proposal that didn’t have instructions on if you have questions during the process, they always air usually upfront about that which they prefer follow that to a t and that that’s what i told my freelance clients the same way, you know, if you do have a question, let me go through that process for you, but don’t like magically run into that person for that thunder that’s not really appropriate, but follow their rules just like the instructions for the grant follow the rules. What do you mean that people see through that stuff? Yeah, you know, it becomes law fake and phony, and you don’t want that, i don’t know and if the end, if they don’t write, i mean funders know they’ve your non-profit what you’re looking for us funding, right? Like that’s already in the back, right? You want to you want to find out? What? What it is that that fundez hoping to achieve through their grantmaking so that you can line that up. But i think also, if they don’t have explosives constructions about, don’t call, don’t e mail anything like that, right? You know, it doesn’t mean i don’t feel like you can’t. You’re like, you know what? Like our boardmember knows somebody on their board, let’s, just see if that would be okay to have a meeting. Tto, learn more and meet with their program officer to see you. Is this a good fit? Doesn’t line up or, you know, it should be it go looking elsewhere. Good. How about tracking deadline? Make sure we go to a lot of details were like twenty five minutes, yeah, don’t hold back, don’t hold out on non-profit video sures deadline, so deadlines ah, and i’m one of those people would put, like, you know, two weeks ahead of the actual deadline on my calendar, but i think that there are a lot more, you know, when i did a lot of my grantwriting is before a lot of project management skills were easier to use and they are, so i just put a lot of things in a spreadsheet on dh kind of, like project manage things that way think they’re a lot more project management tools now, right where you can put in due date it’s gonna trigger reminder and send you an email or, you know, when you log into that system, et cetera, but i think that that is really key, because if you you know, if you don’t similar, like if you’re applying for a job, you don’t follow the instructions, you don’t meet their time frames, you don’t show that you’re respectful of their time, they’re going like, why am i exactly? We have a deadline it’s an easy right off that in the next way didn’t say postmark said, bye you know you’re gonna be disqualified our land and also building and buffer times using technology. First of all, that’s a technology help brovey times yeah, you’re not gonna be able to devote a solid week to this, so don’t leave five business days before the deadline to get started on that right? Be realistic about what you can do in the time for him, a lot of opportunities may pop up it’s a rare with grants cause cycles are pretty much the same, but be realistic if you are a team of one r office that small, i don’t think you can pull off the whole grant and a time frame of a month that’s a lot of work to do for one person if you’re a small office buy-in some opportunities you have to wait for just go after next year, but yeah, be realistic about those deadlines and don’t think you could just write a grant overnight. I thought clients asked me that, and i always turned them down right away. No, you won’t get my best work at that, so yeah. Just be realistic about what you can produce. What your staff can take on that’s also related to what we were just talking about it, asking questions of the the foundation of the thunder. You know, if the question is coming the day before the due date yeah, that looks back that you know, that even you can’t mask it. They know they’re down you again. You’re gonna be gonna be found out. So all right, plan ahead. Leave yourself enough time. So even a month is really not enough time for a small shop. I like to do at least four to six months and that’s if everything is weight, should be. But there are those rare occasions where something pops up. You can’t miss out, you need it. That’s where i would say if you’ve already written that one grant, you’re prepared already so you can dust it off for what you need from it. And you can apply to that one that pops up within a month. Otherwise, i probably wouldn’t go under a month just because of what you have to produce. If it’s a brand new grant and if they’re asking for a lot. Of extra things that you don’t have time to produce in a you know, good manner, i think the weather you’re starting from scratch like your writing a grand for a new program that you haven’t had to write one for me for right? Like a lot of stuff you can recycle, but some things you can’t or like, they’re taking a very different tack on whatever it is you’re doing. I think the other thing is that the attachments, right? If they want their like budget for mated, a format, a specific way, you you know, your finance person doesn’t have that time, right? So i think just being cognizant of that and being cognizant, what you’re asking of your coworkers will also make the process smoother because you’re always like, i always worked closely with the finance people with our program south and the better relationships i had with them, like, okay, let’s, be realistic about this and also is this realistic for me to ask for? Or is there are there some adjustments that we should make that’s so meet the put the funder is looking for, but that aren’t going to be just a pain for everybody to actually implement if you get the grand also good point too you’re going to be counting on other people? Or is that another reason to allow enough time? Exactly? I don’t want to make enemies in your you got enough opportunity. Do that elsewhere around. Same team here. Okay, i gotta take a break. You’ve heard the talis moughniyah lll from lee elementary school, where they’re getting a monthly donation from tell us for the credit card processing of a parent owned company that’s the secret to the monthly pass of revenue from tell us, ask the people close to your organization who owned businesses that would they switch to tell us that’s the key? Get those insiders started tony dahna em a slash tony tell us now back to grants for newbies anything else around this discussion about deadlines? More hold out on us now don’t wait to submit an online application so the last day like i always i actually block, would block off time on my calendar because i definitely like the day before submitted and like their website has gone down, you know, like will this count against us? We don’t know, maybe we should have submitted it earlier, and so then you end up panicking about it. You know why you schedule it, like at least three days in a fans for, like, an online submission, or, you know, maybe till i get it in the mail, get it, you know, tracks, you know, it’s worth getting a track for that piece of minds. I once drove across town and actually dropped it off. But that’s, an idea you got there twenty minutes before that funders office closed. Got there, just in the nick of time. It was a day off, but that was not ideal. Don’t do that. Don’t do that. Don’t let this happen to your exact a proud moment, okay, but thanks for sharing. Hyre. A prepper preparing for online submissions. We just talked about that clearly. Tips for online. We got more time to get now, when is your sessions? Have you had it? This morning. Okay. Now you spoke for an hour on this topic. And you? We did. Okay. What? I think it was just right. Join now. We’ve been together for seventeen minutes. So are like sixteen minutes. We have a minute of prep. You got more. Don’t hold out on us. Ah, fun fact about me. I love reading nine nineties that’s. If you know what those are, the virus form nine. Ninety. Exact wired by latto you like you’re not talking about the easy no, no, no, no. Thirty patients postcard postcard don’t no, no, actually, i started high school with a non-profit i was volunteering for that’s how we fund-raising to come back because we’re all volunteers so i was taught very of sixteen. Seventeen howto break them down and i enjoy it now for sure somebody tips on how to decipher how to get out of the good things to know you can find out who you need to contact as far as who to invite to her events, if you’re afraid that religion is the foundation, you’re looking at the wound, yes, so they have to list who was involved with our foundation. So i’m talking about their board, who their highest paid person is our persons, you don’t have to disclose your five thing exactly he’s on the nine, ninety okay would say if you are not inviting those people to her events, you should, because those are the people who have power clearly in that organization. If they don’t know who you are and you’re not on their radar, you should be, and that list it verifies, hey, they’re important to be on this form. I should probably know who they are, and they should know who i am so that i always tell people check that list out is web sites aren’t always updated quickly on dh that’s, a yearly thing that the irs form also their disclosure of where they give money. People can say a lot of things, but what they report to the arrests have to be legit, so looking at how much they give tio organizations that are like yours, so if you’re, you know, arts organization and you find a nine ninety where they’ve given in the past, but their highest gift has been two thousand dollars. I wouldn’t go for them for ten thousand dollars. I would stay in that range of okay under two thousand it’s the first time, maybe a thousand, but it gives you a good indication of what they’re capable of giving that’s also looking at their salaries if their executive director only makes fifty thousand and you need that probably shouldn’t ask for fifty thousand. But you should definitely okay, little things like that where you can break that down on nine nineties there free. You don’t have to. Everyone has tohave one. Some of them are located on people’s websites, so they’re really easy to find this buy-in store have foundation. They d’oh d’oh scores another one. I sir, has its foundation, of course, has attorney xero back-up probono also happens. We’re together database e-giving well, yeah, yeah, so little things like that. I kind of check on what i do take on a freelance client and they say, oh, i want to go after this grant, i check out that foundation first and say, is this worth your time? Because they might have grand ideas off. Oh, they’ll give me this when in reality no, they’re not so it’s. A good way to double check yourself and it’s a free source and they have to give it something else that can happen is referrals from board members, but not bona fide like just right. Oh, i heard i heard the rockefellers funded. Yeah, great. You know, let’s see, if that i dont happen, you know our work, you know, they have a lot of money, a rockefeller have a lot of money and gets to exactly everybody knows that. And if they’re not allied with what we’re doing now, what’s the point. Sometimes you have to press back, push back. Otherwise you’re going to be real. Or if you find in baltimore, we have certain family foundations where they give to similar organizations throughout the year if you’re new on the scene and saying, hey, is this a good opportunity or good contact? Tohave you can find similar people are doing your work and say, well, they’ve already got a contact with them. They might like me too. So it’s a good way to say like, are we on the same level, you know. Will they even, like, welcome, ian, if they’re already on that same mind. So i like to look at that. Zoho your peers are exactly know your peers are going after. So you khun get a piece of that pie. Okay. All right. Those were excellent. Thank you, danielle. Insider like pro tips for the nine. Ninety it’s. A weird thing i liked. I glad somebody likes to look at them. It’s mitch, what else? We got several minutes together. Somebody but somebody had brought up like they had this sort of weird program model. And anyhow, i think one of things that’s important to think about is as much as we harp on following the instructions and following, you know, everything that they asked for the tea. Like what? Their contact preferences are, et cetera. Also don’t feel like you should be boston by that. Right. So that’s that’s, i think where working your network has the potential. Teo, open up. You know, other ideas. So i get in terms of corporate funders. Right, corp corporations usually have both, like the they might have a corporate foundation, but there’s a marketing dollars that they give. Out of to write for a slightly different reasons, right? But if you have a conversation with whoever’s in charge of giving right, or even if it’s somebody in their corporate social responsibility department, right, you can have that conversation about, you know it does this make here’s what we’re doing here, some opportunities for your organization to get involved, you know, maybe if employees engagements important to them, whatever it is, right? You finding out what that angle is for, what they’re trying to achieve through there giving right, whether it’s on the marketing event sponsorship side or they really like that grants more formal grantmaking side for it or some bridge of the combination of the two right, and then also corporations, national corporations in this half like local community e-giving where that local store of, you know, say of a large chain store, they might have that store manager might have the ability to give out small grantspace right, it’s a good way to get your foot in the door and say like, hey, can we get we work across the state? Can we get? Is it possible to get funding at that state level? So i think don’t be afraid to sort of, like, figure out what is your foot in the door to start that conversation with them and that’s also where you can find out. Okay, you know what? Maybe this isn’t really good fit, but people move around to write and they remember you like you’ve had a really good relationship with them. You’ve, like, always kept him updated, invited them to your events, right? See what we’re doing, even if you’re not doing it right now, maybe you personally, like i would make, you know, like we’ve gotten i’ve seen people like, you know, like, okay, my company isn’t doing right now make a small personal gift because i think you guys are doing great work, right? And those people have moved, and i’ve also see them come back and say, like, you know what? I’m a different organization that now funds programs like yours, so you know, like, the more you can build those relationships and have those conversations just get on people’s radars, as danny mentioned, the more people you know, just like personal networking, the more people know what you’re doing and see that impact it has, then i think that’s more people can advocate for you. Someone who’s volunteered to re grants for review. Ah lot of the decisions come down to do i know who this person is. Do i know who this grant us for? Andi it’s very shallow thing to say like, well, i don’t know who that is, why i give money even though they’re doing great work, but it’s a reality. If you’re not on their radar, why would they take a chance on giving this x amount of money? So you really do have to think about how you’re engaging those people that you’re going after and don’t just approach them when you need money approached me around so they know who you are and they feel comfortable getting with that amount of money that isn’t that the same as what we do with individual? Yes, come to the clinic and engaged. We educate them just like them. And then, you know, the ultimately that there may very well be a solicitation for some, you know, for something and and janice, you’re point is very good to terms of corporate, you know, it’s not only about money, but employee engagement, your opportunities it’s often very important, right? Or if they’re start opening headquarters in a new community, and then i have a relationship with that community, and you, d’oh, right, that’s, a good place to position yourself as well. Okay, uh, we still have another couple of minutes left, like men and a half or so together. Daniel, i guess. My three takeaways for writing, because that’s, my background study, playwriting. But this is how i get to write as well. It’s all over it’s weird, but i would definitely say, win or lose, funded or not, i was under thank you letter i’m a big proponent of thank you letters that’s part of the follow-up you never know when friend funding will become available. So that little piece of thank you, you know, regardless, we’ll keep them engage. I always say simple equals fundez so you might have a beautiful paragraph about everything you’re doing, but when it gets down to it, it might be too much. So that goes back to the instructions. If they have a word limit, follow it. But also you’re getting too wording and just what you’re doing. Just take it out. They really want to look at the numbers and the outcomes and how they’re going to get that money back if there is opportunity for that looked like that. And then your last one kind of brief. Last one said you had three three takeaway? No, i don’t never mind. Okay. Thinking. Sorry, right to protest to yeah, those are the two big ones too big to take away. Okay. All right. We are going to leave it there. All right, so my pleasure they are. They are jenise chan, the technical training specialist in development and alumni relations for johns hopkins institutions on danielle faulkner dahna engagement coordinator at baltimore community foundation. It sounds like she’s also a freelancer. Yes. Okay. Okay. Girl right. That’s, the freelance for arts funding in baltimore city. We’re looking for that girl right where you are, right? Tio? Yep, like playwright. Okay. Danielle janis, thanks so much. So much. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen, ninety si, thank you for being with us. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits, thanks so much next week. Storytelling and free facebook fund-raising if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wetness, cps dot com and by telus credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream durney dahna slash tony tello’s, a creative producers claire meyerhoff family boats in the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez and our music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Nothing. Good. Hello, this is bruce chamlong, host of the web design and technology coach. Join me and my guests every tuesday from eight to nine pm as we discussed the latest in web design, social media, marketing, search, engine optimization and technology way also discussed popular topics, including ward press, making money online, better koegler rankings and more every month way. 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