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Special Episode: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

My Guest:

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld

The willingness and skills of people of color aren’t represented in leadership circles. That’s the main message coming out of Building Movement Project’s report, “Race To Lead Revisited.” We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMP’s co-director, Sean Thomas-Breitfeld.

 

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[00:01:48.24] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. This is a special episode of non profit radio to help you be the change around racism, people of color underrepresented in non profit leadership. That’s the main message coming out of building movement projects Report. Race to Lead Revisited We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMPs co director Sean Thomas Brett felled, responsive by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot CEO and by dot drives, raise more money, changed more lives for a free demo and free month. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show. Sean Thomas Bright Felled. He is co director at the Building Moving Building Movement Project. He previously worked in various roles at community change, developing training programs for grassroots leaders and worked in the communications and policy departments where he coordinated online and grassroots advocacy efforts and lobbied on a range of issues including immigration reform, transportation, equity and anti poverty programs. Building movement project is at building movement, or GE, and at B L. D. I N G movement. John Thomas Bright felt Welcome to non profit radio

[00:01:51.64] spk_0:
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:53.33] spk_1:
It’s supposed

[00:01:53.87] spk_0:
to be here with you.

[00:01:54.83] spk_1:
It’s good. It’s a pleasure. Thank you. So why don’t you start by describing the work at Building Movement Project?

[00:02:02.44] spk_0:
Sure, so building movement projects been around for over 20 years, and from our founding we’ve had three main areas of focus. One is what we call movement building, looking at how organizations collaborate, how nonprofit organizations can be part of movements for social change and social justice, and what it takes for organizations and non profit leaders to really be on the forefront of making big leading some big structural changes in our society. We’ve also looked at what we call a non profits and social change or service and social change because we think there is a particular role for human service organizations in bringing about structural and systemic change in our society and that that’s really important to support on. Also encourage organizations like that to get involved in advocacy. Listen to an uplift, the voice and on power of the communities that are being served, and then the third bucket of work has always focused on leadership, so recognizing that leading a nonprofit organization is a very hard job we’ve always looked at What does it take for leaders? But also, what does it take for non profit leadership? Thio really have aligned both the practices of leadership with the values that organizations hold. And so over the last several years, we’ve been particularly focused on issues of race and leadership in non profit organization. That’s what the race to lead work comes out of.

[00:03:41.14] spk_1:
Okay, right? And the This race to lead revisited report is really comparing a 2016 survey for the original race to lead with a 2019 survey for this report. Exactly.

[00:04:04.84] spk_0:
Yeah, so we surveyed people working in the nonprofit sector both in 2016 and 2019 on these issues of race and leadership. So this report race to lead revisited at some comparisons between the findings from 2016 and 2019 to see how the sector’s been evolving

[00:04:55.34] spk_1:
and you did have some new questions as well. We’ll have time to get to some of those, um, you talk about Well, first I got to say, I realize the contrast here I have long white hair and you have short, dark hair. We are. We know in the hair. We are. We’re not similar in hair. My God. Uh, yeah, OK, Sorry I couldn’t help notice. Um, you talk about we’re gonna have fun on non profit radio. I mean, it’s a serious subject, but we have fun nonetheless. So you talk about white advantage in the report versus white privilege? You mentioned white privilege once or twice, but predominantly. Talk about white advantage. What’s the What’s the difference there? What? What? What are you trying to say? A little different than the the more seems more common, you know, white privilege.

[00:05:05.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So what’s the term white advantage? What we’re trying to focus on is some of the structural advantages that accrue to non profit organizations based on, you know, multiple people in positions of power being white. So particularly thinking about the composition of boards and the composition of senior leadership teams. Um, because, you know, I think oftentimes the analysis is very individualistic, right? So, like, there’s an individual white person in the executive director role of the organization that only paints part of the picture on DSO we wanted to have a more complicated and nuanced analysis of what’s actually happened. An organization s O, that it became less about, like, the it one person at the top of organizational hierarchy. And think about it, uh, in a way that encompasses both the board leadership and senior staff.

[00:06:04.44] spk_1:
Okay. And then the structures as well, it seems thio less focused on an individual or individuals and mawr, uh, levers of power and processes policies.

[00:06:27.04] spk_0:
Exactly. And it also became a way thio understand and sort of unpack. Um, how, uh, sort of whiteness of organizations that, like in our sample, right, like, 45% of respondents work for organizations where both more than 75% of the board is white and more than 75% of staff and top leadership are white on. And, you know, I think that for me, that was actually somewhat startling in surprising um, And then we also saw that those organizations tend to have bigger budgets at least was being reported by the staff. Um but then, at the same time, we’re seeing that staff were reporting more negative experiences in those types of organizations compared to organizations with more diverse leadership on both the board and senior staff levels.

[00:07:29.64] spk_1:
And so the overall message that I got from this is that the power remains in boards and at the sea levels of nonprofits, and those are predominantly white. And that and that that really hasn’t changed from 2016 to 2019.

[00:07:35.24] spk_0:
Yeah, that hasn’t well, it’s hard to know because we actually didn’t ask the question in this way back in 2016. But I think that this, um, sort of puts our data in the context of some of the research that board source has done that shows that boards are overwhelmingly the majority of non profit boards are overwhelmingly white

[00:07:59.14] spk_1:
and also not reflecting the communities that they’re serving. Absolutely. Yeah,

[00:08:01.54] spk_0:
yeah, because I think what has happened is that the function of non profit boards very often is less a function of accountability to the organization’s constituency and mission on, because organizations often have a lot of responsibility for fundraising and raising the resource is for the organization to do its work. Um, that as a result of that sort of demand, organizations often have, um, prioritized recruiting from people who holds wealth in their communities and because of racial wealth gaps that tend to be white people

[00:08:41.04] spk_1:
on dhe. That’s recruiting for both leadership and volunteer position board with talking about boards and you make it very clear we’re talking about boards as well as C suite. You know, CEO, executive director level.

[00:08:54.14] spk_0:
Absolutely.

[00:08:56.24] spk_1:
So let’s go into the three. I guess main conclusions that the report identifies first one is that things really haven’t changed that much. We’ve already alluded to it. Things haven’t changed that much in the three years.

[00:09:14.44] spk_0:
Yeah, and you know, I’m not sure how surprising that should be. Um, for our sector. You know, I think the change is often particularly in organizations. When we’re talking about organizations where we’re talking about the composition of the staff, that kind of change is incremental, right? I think that what has shifted is that, particularly in the last year is much more consciousness raising much more awareness on the part of organizations that these imbalances, these inequities exist and needs to be addressed. Um, but recognizing that there is a problem is not the same thing is taking action to address the problem.

[00:10:18.34] spk_1:
So you are seeing mawr alright, consciousness raising awareness. It seems like predominantly because of the diversity equity and inclusion work that Ah lot of organizations have done. But it’s just sort of, you know, I’m I gleaned from the reports, just sort of scratching the surface. I mean, ah, lot of it is trainings that raise awareness, but we’re not seeing much action flowing from that consciousness raising.

[00:10:23.84] spk_0:
Yeah, And so one example of the increased consciousness was that in both 2016 and 2019 we asked survey respondents what impact to their race had had on their career advancement. And, uh, for white respondents back in 2016 roughly half indicated that their race. They recognize that the race had a positive impact on their career advancement. So this sort of classic recognition of white privilege that increased to two thirds of the white sample in 29 so one from half to two thirds. So you know that is e think progress, right? In terms of like people having a recognition and understanding that white privileges riel and that it’s positively the benefits of that privilege are accruing to white people in nonprofit organization. Um however, the same question also revealed that back in 2016 a third roughly of people of color felt that their own race have negatively impacted their career advancement, and that then increased almost basically half off the sample of people of color in 2019. So the increased consciousness is both, you know, I think leading people to recognize the ways that they have been disadvantaged as well as for white people the way that they have been advantaged on DSO. You know, we’re still left with this challenge. This problem. That race is clearly having an impact on people’s advancement. And so it needs to be addressed in organizations in ways that I don’t think training is sufficient. Thio thick

[00:12:04.14] spk_1:
right? But you acknowledge consciousness, raising an awareness that that is the first step. But we have a lot more, a lot, a lot further to go. I mean, you know, it’s just

[00:12:14.61] spk_0:
absolutely

[00:12:50.24] spk_1:
widely recognized that, you know, you don’t just do trainings a couple of trainings over six months and then check your box. You know d e. I is covered. Let’s move on, Thio. Let’s move on to the gala. You know it za process. It’s a journey, you know we’ve had other guests say the same thing. It takes time. Thio, uh, change the policies, the practices, the traditions Even if they’re not written down, that our advantage ing white folks over people of color, This takes time. But you gotta You’ve got to start somewhere.

[00:12:52.74] spk_0:
Yes, and I think consciousness raising is is an important and legitimate starting point.

[00:13:42.54] spk_1:
Right? And we’re just getting started, okay? It’s time for a break. Turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know this turn to is led by former journalists. So you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships, they’re gonna help you when you want to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners was an editor of the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know the non profit space they’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to P. O. C. Underrepresented in non profit leadership. Are you going to do this in three years again?

[00:13:45.94] spk_0:
It’s a very good question. You know, it’s hard

[00:13:48.15] spk_1:
to

[00:13:48.28] spk_0:
know, uh, in terms of, like, capacity funding, all of those things um, but yeah, I think that it seems worthwhile to keep revisiting thes issues, given the pace of change. Um, having been pretty slow just in the time that we’ve been collecting this data.

[00:14:24.14] spk_1:
All right, Um, anything else you want to say about you know, how the the findings from 2016 are pretty similar? Uh, yeah. Continue through to 2019 before we go on to the next. Well,

[00:14:24.49] spk_0:
sure. I think the reason that we felt like it was worth restating on pointing out the similarity in in terms of the findings between 2016 and 2019 was because, um, you know, from our perspective, it was really important to state very clearly to the sector. But there are people of color who are in the pipeline that the pipeline is not necessarily the problem. Uh, there’s, I think, different metaphors that people have used unpack and try to understand what the problem is of why we’re not seeing more representative leadership at the top levels of nonprofit organizations. And our view has just been that it’s not a pipeline issue per se. There are people of color who have the skills training credentials to be in those top roles, but they face racialized barriers to actually moving into those top jobs to being hired for those top jobs. And so we just felt like it was important to remind the sector of that finding, Um and sort of not lapse back into, ah narrative that, like we need to train more people of color because somehow people of color are not ready toe lead. People of color are ready to lead, but are often too often not given the opportunity.

[00:15:38.84] spk_1:
Not only have the skill sets already, but are willing to, in fact, what willing Thio want. Thio want to advance the leadership in greater numbers than the and the white respondents?

[00:15:51.94] spk_0:
Absolutely.

[00:15:53.03] spk_1:
E guess. There’s narrative that, you know there’s a lack of interest in in people of color advancing toe leadership. But you’ve dashed that.

[00:16:01.74] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that part of the reason that’s important is because if people hold this mental model that who wants to be a leader is, uh, not a person of color, then they’re going to ignore the leadership potential of people of color in their organization.

[00:16:26.64] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s very convenient. Well, you know, the folks of color don’t really aspire to leadership. So no need to consider them. So Okay, so you’ve you’ve dashed that it’s not so in two respects. It’s not a pipeline issue. The skills air there and the willingness Is there a ZX? Well,

[00:16:36.24] spk_0:
absolutely

[00:16:42.44] spk_1:
desire Thio advance and to lead. Okay, Um right. So remember your second main main conclusion, I guess, is there is white advantage. We were talking around it. Now we come right out and say there is white advantage in the nonprofit sector.

[00:18:59.24] spk_0:
There is. And, um, you know, I think that the the white advantage takes multiple forms, right? So I think that there have been over the last several months Mawr written about like, what happened? What’s called now? Philanthropic redlining, right, that organizations that are led by people of color, particularly black led organizations, are don’t get access to the same kind of resource is as the white led organizations focused on or serving in communities of color. And so there’s really interesting research both from organizations like Abssi A ZX, well as echoing green and bridge span that really dug into that funding disadvantage. And I think that our data also showed similar findings, particularly when it comes to, for instance, e. D s of color. And this was reported on Maurin a report from based on the 2016 data but E d s of color feeling like they don’t have, they don’t get grants of comparable size to peer organization or that they don’t have access Thio relationships with funders. And so those kinds of advantages in terms of like, who funders trust who funders will give bigger grants thio all of those benefits than accrue to white led organizations that then create this financial gap between organizations, nonprofit organizations based on who’s in positions of power in that institution. And so other ways that the white advantage showed up were in terms of the sort of composition of organizations and the greater comfort that white people, uh, seem tohave in. Those organizations, for instance, on questions like Do people feel like they have a voice in their organization for people working in white, dominant organizations were both the board and senior staff are more than 75% white. That’s where we saw the biggest gaps between people of color and whites in terms of their their agreement with that statement, right? And that gap decreases as you have mawr diverse organizations. And it’s also interesting to note that the average the mean increases. So both people of color and white respondents are more likely to say they have a. They have a voice in their organizations when they work for POC lead groups. So if you know, funders want to invest in organizations that are cultivating that kind of leader full ecosystem inside of their organization that, you know, make it possible for staff to feel like they have a voice and can help to set the direction for the organization, then you know foundations would be wise to really take a hard look at their own investment and the composition of organizations that they’ve been funding on. DSI. You know, like, are these organizations largely white run or are they POC lead on. And if there are largely white one, they should start investing in more organizations that are POC ledge.

[00:20:06.94] spk_1:
You identify five opportunities which we’ll get to, and one of those is put your money where your mouth is. You just say, put your, uh, you

[00:20:08.83] spk_0:
know, money

[00:20:54.04] spk_1:
where mouth is for sure. Yeah, I mean that’s a critical lever of power is funding for any anyone, whether it’s whether it’s corporate or non profit access to capital access to markets. Um, you know, what I thought was really interesting is, um, when you were identifying whether an organization was white lead or POC lead you, you chose as a threshold for white lead, whether more than 75% whether the Board of Leadership is more than 75% white. But then for for people of color lead, the threshold was just 50%. Is that because there just aren’t enough that are that are at the 75% level? So you had to reduce the yet to reduce the threshold to define it as person of color lead? Was that the reason?

[00:21:02.45] spk_0:
Yes. I mean, I think that it reflects the sort of composition of the sector, right. So 45% of respondents reported working for organizations where more than 75% of the board and senior staff were white on then it only 14% of respondents reporting working for organizations where it was over 50% of board and senior staff where people of color, you know, like it’s

[00:21:30.25] spk_1:
hard to have

[00:21:30.98] spk_0:
a comparison between Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:34.02] spk_1:
75% shoulder, 75% for PFC. Lead was gonna be too small a sample You

[00:21:40.57] spk_0:
a

[00:21:41.99] spk_1:
handful of Okay, uh, e suspected. Okay. Um, yeah. The experience was a little more about the experience. How people experience how people of color experience work in a in a white led organization.

[00:21:58.84] spk_0:
Well, I have to say, this was surprised, Not surprising. But it was interesting that the data was so clear, um, that the these racial gaps were so much larger for respondents working for white run organizations compared toa the POC led groups. And, um, you know, I think that it reflects what we’ve been hearing from the focus groups that we’ve been doing across the country in terms of the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color working in organizations that, um, you know, I think often feel somewhat alienating. And where people feel like they, um their leadership potential is not recognized or supported on dso. It was just a really, uh it was nice to have the data show, uh, and really reflect what we’ve been hearing anecdotally through focus groups and interviews around the country,

[00:22:59.54] spk_1:
You mentioned three organizations that have contributed to this work. One of them was bridge span. And then what were the other to save them. Save them a little slower theater, too.

[00:23:03.21] spk_0:
Sure. So a few months ago, bridge span and echoing green partnered on a report that looked at the going echoing green,

[00:23:14.57] spk_1:
echoing green

[00:24:50.44] spk_0:
green. Yeah, they partnered toe look at the funding that had accrued to organization organizational leaders who had gone through echoing Green’s programs. And so they were able to then really track and demonstrate that black leaders compared toa white leaders who had gone through the same kind of leadership development programs were getting very different levels of financial support on So that report came out at, you know, the earlier in the spring and last winter, an organization called Absi, which is the Organization for African Americans in philanthropy. On DSO, the acronym is a B E, and they put out a report looking at what they call the philanthropic redlining, this phenomenon of financial support from foundations accruing to white led organizations rather than to POC lead or black led organizations. So they use this terminology of redlining because it’s evocative of historical policy that led to very dramatic differences in terms of what sort of development and investment was possible, uh, in cities and neighborhoods based on this policy of redlining. And their point is that the imbalances, the inequities and where philanthropic dollars flow leads toa completely different prospects for organizations. And because some organizations grow because they get the funding and other organizations sort of. Whether on the bun

[00:25:06.34] spk_1:
isn’t the large majority of the smaller organizations I think you’re special was under a million dollars aren’t Isn’t the majority of those POC lead?

[00:25:08.44] spk_0:
It was, Yeah, it was striking to see that a much larger share of POC led organizations had budgets under a million

[00:25:30.34] spk_1:
dollars compared to, for instance, what led organizations? And, ah, large, large majority of those are a million dollars or under in funding or annual budget.

[00:25:31.18] spk_0:
Yes, okay, yeah, in terms of the annual budget

[00:26:27.24] spk_1:
annual budget. Okay, time for our last break. Dot drives drives engagement dot drives relationships. Dot drives walks you through donor engagement. It’s a tool that’s simple, affordable and focuses you on building donor relationships and trust. There’s a free demo, and for listeners a free first month. Go to the listener landing page at tony dot Emma slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for POC, underrepresented in non profit leadership. And then the third main point is that d I. Efforts are widespread, you say, and their effectiveness is uncertain, I would say, but but their effectiveness is uncertain. You’re a little more optimistic. Um, so, yeah, we were scratching the surface of this before, but you know, say same or about what’s being done, but what the limitations of it are.

[00:26:35.74] spk_0:
Well, first off, I think it’s important to acknowledge that three quarters of the sample reported that their organizations were doing something related to diversity equity inclusion. And so the ubiquity of D I efforts is, you know, I think good. And I think it’s a relatively new phenomenon, right? Like it’s become the topic at a lot of conferences over the past five years. And so all of which is to say that like organizations are getting started right now, Um, and maybe it’s long overdue, but this is a moment when organizations are getting started. I think that the challenge, the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color. And the younger staff of, you know, diverse diversity of younger staff is that I think for far too often it feels like organizational checklist. It feels like a sort of double. Organizations are saying the right things, but not actually changing anything about their recruitment practices or internal hiring and promotion strategy. So, yeah, I think that that is the the frustrating in that, like the ubiquity does not equal impact.

[00:28:43.94] spk_1:
I just want to remind listeners the report is called Race to Lead Revisited and you can get it at building movement dot or ge. All right, Sean, how do you feel about talking? Oh, there’s there’s a quote. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You You pepper the report with quotes in the margin on Dhe there. Ah, lot of them struck me that. I’m just going to read one that was probably half a dozen or so that, you know, sort of stopped me a little bit. But, uh, Pakistani woman, I don’t believe I’m taking us seriously in the workplace because I am a young woman of color. I often question things which doesn’t always go over well in majority white organizations. I’ve been used as a token brown person that za harsh reality Thio Thio read and for her to admit in a survey that, you know, I’m a token. Um So I thought the quotes were very evocative.

[00:28:55.84] spk_0:
Well, yeah, thanks. I mean, we we really think it’s important to balance the quantitative data with, you know, hundreds upon hundreds of right and responses from survey respondents and then also the focus groups that we do. We also gain a ton of insights from those conversations as well.

[00:29:16.34] spk_1:
You feel OK, go into the five opportunities or is there Is there mawr anything more you wanna bring out about the the report itself? Well, this is part of the report, but about the conclusions, conclusions and findings.

[00:29:40.34] spk_0:
Well, I guess I would just add in terms of the sort of d I and, uh, there’s the both the skepticism, but also the impact, right? I think that, um, there’s, you know, I think there’s a lot of skepticism about training, often times. But our data did show that for reserving respondents that reported that their organization trained on a variety of topics. They had more positive views on the impact of training on their organization. I think that just speaks to the importance and need for organizations have, like, multifaceted well around D. I initiatives so that training is not again, like just the check box on or sort of like. Okay, we did the training on white privilege, and so we’re sort of done that the training is a way of both sparking but also sustaining critical conversations in organizations. And that’s why it’s useful for organizations to do training repeatedly and on a variety of topics.

[00:30:59.64] spk_1:
Yeah, I think it was. It was forearm. Or if organizations had had training on four or more topics than both white, the white respondents and the people, people of color respondents, um, felt it was it was more advantageous. So they got there was more valuable training than if it was three or fewer. Could you just take off a couple of different topics that that folks should be looking to training? I mean, not not exhaustive, but you know, what are some of the some of the topics that people should be thinking about training wise?

[00:31:07.27] spk_0:
Sure, yeah. So eso in terms of the topics that we tested for in the survey people indicated that whether the organization had done training on white privileged, specifically whether they had done training on implicit bias because that is a concept that I think has gained mawr currency in the sector. Structural racism, for instance. Um, like do people think of racism as just about interpersonal dynamics or as or as the result of structural, um, and systemic forces that are being replicated by policy? A. ZX well, as implicitly, um, also racial trauma and healing. I think it’s a training topic that is becoming more popular and developed, so there’s a variety of topics, and I think the important thing is just for organizations to be open to having and doing training on a wide variety of topics.

[00:32:07.74] spk_1:
And again, the more topics, the more valuable people will feel. Three outcomes are, um So let’s go to the opportunities. Then why don’t you once you start us off?

[00:32:19.04] spk_0:
Sure.

[00:32:20.17] spk_1:
I’m sure. Wait. I put you on the spot. Do you know that you may not have him off the top of your head? I have notes I haven’t written down, so I don’t need thio Put you on the spot memorized? I don’t know do you?

[00:32:32.07] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve got it.

[00:32:33.81] spk_1:
Okay. Okay.

[00:32:47.44] spk_0:
First in the first one was focused on structures as well as the experiences of staff. Right on DSO. You know, I think it’s pretty straightforward, but I think the the reason that we felt felt like it was really important toe lift up lived experience of staff working in organizations is because of what we saw in terms of those experience questions, right? Like, do people feel they have a voice in their organizations or not? Right. We also thought it was important to point out that policies have to actually be in force, right? Like organizations can’t just say this is our policy. But if people don’t see evidence that actual behavior and practices air changing as a result of the policy, um, then you know, I think there are real questions about whether that has real impact.

[00:33:22.08] spk_1:
There is, as

[00:33:23.32] spk_0:
we said earlier,

[00:33:35.84] spk_1:
you’re not walking the talk. Then if you have ah, policy on anti discrimination and someone says something derogatory and it doesn’t get dealt with according to the policy. Yeah, that’s a joke. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:33:39.94] spk_0:
Um, we also thought it was important toe, you know, really, focus on the funding dynamics, so particularly for grantmaking organizations. But put your money where, like your mouth is essentially right. Like there are increasing number of foundations, that air saying that the I is important. Ah, nde sort of signaling to their grantees. But those organizations need to take d. I seriously need to diversify their boards and staff things like that. But if the foundations have not taken similar steps, if the foundations have not to diversify their own or internal institution, or the foundations have not sort of critically examined their portfolio of grants like are there racial disparities in terms of what the amounts of funding, which organizations get access to funding that sort of thing? All of that is about foundations being very serious on reflect about being reflective in terms of their own commitments to D. I.

[00:35:24.04] spk_1:
And you have reflecting reflecting your community, which we touched on a little bit, that that was really striking, how you know it’s intuitive. I mean, I realized it, but to see the numbers of, um, Whitelighter organizations that are serving POC communities, eyes like two thirds or something, I think, um, it’s startling that leadership does not reflect the communities that they’re serving, and that includes the board. I mean, you you wanna have voices from the from the folks you’re serving contributing to your contributing to your you’re you’re major decisions a ZX the board should be doing

[00:35:28.54] spk_0:
Yeah, and again, like, as I said earlier, like, if organizations see the function of the board as about accountability as about setting the direction for the organization, then I think those organizations will see the need and value of having a board that is reflective of the community that’s being served. But if organizations have the sort of rationale for maintaining the board is to have access to people with wealth and connections, and there’s obvious reasons that organizations go that route. Then they’re going to stack. They’re bored with wealthy people in their communities on again because of racism. Those wealthy people are not likely to be people of color from the constituency that’s being served

[00:36:15.53] spk_1:
and your last one responsibility and results.

[00:36:26.79] spk_0:
Yeah, I think our sense was that organizations air pushed to track a lot of things nowadays and so, like what gets measured is often what then matters. And so our sense was that organizations should be very clear about what their commitments are going to be to race equity. And, um, you know, really track those commitments and then track the results of that come out of, like, what kind of organizational change strategies they pursue. And so, you know, if organizations they’re doing like an annual review or annual reports, are they reporting on their goals and objectives around race equity? That is one way to sort of ensure that organizations are staying on track on dhe, that its multiyear commitment

[00:37:13.58] spk_1:
it’s gonna take

[00:37:14.84] spk_0:
multiple years of change.

[00:37:38.03] spk_1:
Uh, you know, just pay attention. You can move the needle on things. If you start paying attention to them, you’re saying, if you measure it, you’ll you’ll you’ll be. You’ll be accountable to it. So high attention to it. If your If your statements say that you value racial equity, then measure it, hold yourself accountable and commit to those years of change.

[00:37:41.23] spk_0:
Yeah, and I think it’s even better if organizations do that. Make that accountability public, eso that they’re the sort of reporting is to their staff. It’s to their board. It’s to their community so that, like the statements of the organizations stand with. For instance, black lives matter, then backed up with organizations being able to say. And here’s how we lived into that commitment. Here are the things that we did over the past year that made that riel,

[00:38:10.82] spk_1:
Sean, anything, anything at all that we didn’t cover that you want to talk about.

[00:38:16.52] spk_0:
Um, no, I think we covered a lot.

[00:38:34.22] spk_1:
Okay, well, we did. You know, it’s not profit radio. We cover a lot of ground, but, you know, we can only scratch the surface. I mean, we cover a lot, but what you want to read the details, So just get the damn thing. Uh, the report again is, um race toe lead racing. No race race, the lead race, the lead be visiting

[00:38:38.27] spk_0:
the lead revisited.

[00:38:49.92] spk_1:
Used to lead you visited. You’ll find it at building movement or GE. That’s where you’ll find building movement project. And Sean Thomas Bright felled. Who is co director, right, Sean, Thank you very much. Thank you.

[00:38:52.07] spk_0:
Thanks so much for having me

[00:39:32.72] spk_1:
absolutely appreciate your time. Thank you. Reminder were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot Emma slash dot for a free demo and a free month, Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy. This music is by Scott Stein and with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for February 7, 2020: Neurodiversity

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My Guest:

Peter Shankman: Neurodiversity
Up to 30% of the workforce will be neurodivergent in the next 10-15 years. What is it and how can you get the competitive edge today by taking advantage of these specially-talented workers’ skills? Peter Shankman returns to share his quite personal explanation.

 

 

 

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[00:00:14.44] spk_2:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:00:16.49] spk_3:
profit radio big non profit ideas for the

[00:00:19.68] spk_2:
other 95%

[00:01:18.98] spk_3:
on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. You’d get slapped with a diagnosis of metastasize, a phobia if you missed our fourth show in the Innovators. Siri’s neural diversity up to 30% of the workforce will be neuro divergent in the next 10 to 15 years. What is it and how can you get the competitive edge today by taking advantage of these especially talented workers skills, Peter Shankman returns to the show to share his quite personal explanation. Tony Stake to planned giving for the decade were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. It’s

[00:01:19.11] spk_2:
a pleasure

[00:02:17.54] spk_3:
to welcome back to the show. Peter Shankman. The New York Times has called him a rock star who knows everything about social media and then some. He’s a five time best selling author, entrepreneur and corporate keynote speaker, focusing on customer service and the new and emerging customer and neuro atypical economy. He’s recognized worldwide for radically new ways of thinking about the customer experience, social media, PR marketing, advertising and a DHD attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. As he checks his email on his on his watch on the new neuro diverse economy, he was the founder of Haro. Help! A reporter out. He leads Shank Mines, Breakthrough Network on online mastermind of thought leaders, business experts and change makers. Peter’s got a podcast faster than normal. It’s the number one podcast on a DHD focusing on the superpowers and gif ts of having a faster than normal brain. He’s a father, a two time Ironman triathlete in a Class B licensed skydiver. He’s at shankman dot com And at Peter Shankman. Welcome back to the show.

[00:02:27.53] spk_0:
Good to be back. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:38.14] spk_3:
Thank you. Pleasure. I’m glad you’re in the neighborhood is easy because you walk over on a Not a bad winter day. Not too cold. Yeah. Yeah. Um So

[00:02:38.85] spk_2:
you’re a

[00:02:47.83] spk_3:
diversity, I guess. Obviously the place to start is to define it. You have a whole podcast about it. What are we talking about? What fits under it? No. Diversity

[00:02:58.70] spk_0:
is any kind of faster brain, any kind of different. You know, growing up a DHD didn’t exist. 80 evening, Just, uh, in the public schools in New York. It was Sit down. You dropped in the glasses, Eat. Yeah, and I have had a very large dose of that, and it

[00:03:05.17] spk_6:
caused a lot

[00:03:13.11] spk_0:
of grief. You know, I had a school was not easy for me. And it wasn’t that I didn’t want to focus. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to pay attention. It wasn’t that I enjoyed acting out in class, but I did enjoy a glass. But, you know, it was best mates. Enjoyed it very much so. And what I

[00:03:18.58] spk_6:
realized. No, I’m looking back on it. That’s exactly

[00:04:45.00] spk_0:
it was I when I could make the kids laugh. That gave me a hit of dopamine, and that gave me a hit of adrenaline that give me a hit of serotonin and all those things that the newer, diverse brain, especially the DHD brain, doesn’t make enough of. Right. Um, when you’re a DHD, you have about 25% less of these chemicals than a normal regular speed person. And so your constant looking for ways, not intentionally. Just subconsciously you’re looking for ways to replenish those. Yeah, simply the rain in to get you know what? When when a regular person says Okay, I have I have math class. I don’t like math, but I’ll get through it, you know, they sit there and they say, Okay, I gotta learn this stuff and they look at it and they focus on it. They learn it. You know, when I do something I don’t like it. It requires a commitment and a set up to get it done. You know, I don’t, um things I don’t enjoy, but I have to do is part of life. I have to, uh, uh promote myself into a different way of being to get it done. It’s why I’ll never hold a meeting. Ah, where we sit down, right? None of my one of my meetings or sit down meetings. They are either stand up or walk around meetings. I people have called me the Aaron Sorkin of meetings and that that we will do a walk and talk for 30 minutes as opposed to, you know, Let’s go. Let’s go get a coffee and we’ll clear across town and coffee. That’s something we have to walk to get our meeting them, but it’s It’s better and more conductive and more conducive than sitting there in a room. You know, if I have to meet with people who I don’t have a choice and they’re gonna force me to sit down, you know, I’ll walk beforehand. I’ll take the, you know, take the stairs. I just don’t like that, You know, I walked over here, by the way, the west on highway to go three blocks

[00:05:05.84] spk_3:
that way, west

[00:05:06.46] spk_0:
way west to come back just to get a good 20 minute hit. Okay? Don’t mean I was

[00:05:10.89] spk_3:
wondering. I was starting to feel a little nervous that I was forced to

[00:05:16.14] spk_6:
sit for an hour. Now I got Yeah, we’re scared me, you know, in hours and hours. A

[00:05:19.41] spk_0:
bit much every interview that we doing on the podcast. We’ve had over 200 of them. We’ve had a CEO’s that Tony Robbins, Seth Godin, Keith Crouch. You found a doctor sign. Dave Needleman found a JetBlue Joe dissent in front of the Spartan race. The band shined down had countless really, really smart people. And each podcast is only 20 minutes because, well, a few day and so, you know, to to to sit someone like me sitting for an hour.

[00:05:43.56] spk_6:
You know, isn’t this really the worst thing? The world?

[00:05:45.21] spk_0:
But it’s it requires a commitment requires two requires a way to make the brain work for me.

[00:05:52.02] spk_3:
And so that was the walk.

[00:05:52.95] spk_6:
That was a lot

[00:05:53.41] spk_3:
of the preparation. Exactly. Thank you for doing it.

[00:05:55.98] spk_6:
And I have No, I

[00:06:52.74] spk_0:
have I have Ah, very, you know, sort of fundamental, um, things that I have to do every day to to to simply get myself through the day to have good days. You know, every morning has to start with exercise being a single dad. I can’t get the gym every day, have a pelt on bike, and I’m on that bike. On the days that my daughter, which is a little over half the week, um, I am on that bike, usually around 4 a.m. On my bike for an hour and 1/2. It’s obviously not to lose weight, you know, if it is, I’m doing something wrong, but it’s it’s to keep the brain focus. And I’ll do, you know, 2025 miles, and I will, you know, get off the bike. And I’m just I’m I’m perfectly wired. Right. I have a phenomenal way of of sort of approaching the world, which is a lot easier and better than if I didn’t do it, you know, and I sort of went in a little muddled a little, you know, not short myself. It it’s my form of medication. And

[00:06:55.39] spk_6:
I’m not anti

[00:06:58.07] spk_0:
met. I mean, I have a prescription. I take it every once in a while. I’m not on it today. You call

[00:07:00.14] spk_3:
it your expense account.

[00:07:01.37] spk_6:
Yeah. My expense account

[00:07:18.05] spk_0:
medication. When my assistant sits me down, says if you don’t get me these receipts and find the stuff, you have to get me. You know, the next today, you know you’re not gonna get paid. Your clients are competitive. Okay? I’ll sit down and I’ll figure out, uh, you know. Okay, let’s take this pill, sit down, get the work done. In focus of Other than that, I prefer to get my my medication in more natural ways. The exercises. Skydiving, public speaking. Things

[00:07:32.39] spk_3:
like you told psychology today that to write a book? If you If you have a writing project, you book a round trip flight Asia.

[00:08:23.61] spk_0:
Three of my last five trips have three minutes. Five books have been written entirely in airplanes. The last two. I booked a flight to Asia with no real reason. Euthanasia other than to write the book. Um, I actually wrote zombie loyalists. I sat down on the plane. Um, booked. It looks like the Asia it was doing two weeks haven’t read anything. I did all the research hadn’t relating. Booked a flight to Asia road chapters one through five in the flat out landed in Tokyo. Went to lounge to the shower. Have a cup of coffee. Get back on the same plane. Same seat two hours later. You’re not stay overnight, even stay the night. Wrote chapter 6 to 10 on the flight home. And, um, you know, went, uh, they got held up by, um, homeland Security for two hours, wondering why I was nature for 90 minutes and never actually immigration something that proved interesting, but it sure was running a bucket.

[00:08:25.53] spk_2:
Now I would say that That sounds to me like incredible focus.

[00:08:45.92] spk_0:
Well, the beauty of a DHD is that you can hyper focus. You can hyper focus. If you like to do something, you can sit down. And just if the situation is right and you’ve given yourself the right of it, sit down and you know I’ll put together a 1600 piece Lego Lego set in three hours. Yeah, I love doing it, but you know, if it’s something I don’t like doing, you have to. I have to make it work and it’s It’s not easy

[00:09:00.19] spk_3:
now. Five years ago you were You were with us was roughly five years. We’re talking about zombie loyalists. Um, uh, do you I gotta just focus back. Or do you still you still in Morton’s? I’m

[00:09:05.15] spk_6:
still martignetti Angeles way just

[00:09:13.73] spk_3:
played. We just played the show like, four or five weeks ago so listeners will know that it’s a story in Newark Airport. Yeah,

[00:09:47.83] spk_0:
so fan of Morton’s, you know, still go there quite frequently. It’s it’s phenomenal steaks. They still treat me very well. Um, I It’s funny over time that people still tell that story and and it’s still you know, not so much a customer is its customer experience. Not. It’s not PR. It’s not. Social media is custom experience, right? They were a little bit out of their way, and that’s not their job. The job isn’t going to take the airport. The job is that clear right? Have a great time. And so so So they’re still very good at that. Have they gotten bad at that? You know, they were bought by a company called Landry’s, and Landers owns them now. And

[00:09:52.37] spk_3:
Texas? Yeah, let’s take Texas

[00:09:54.64] spk_0:
unfortunate. Unfortunately, Andrews is still very, very, very big on customer experience, so it’s still a good place to

[00:10:39.04] spk_3:
go. Okay, let me take our first break. Wegner-C.P.As. You know, they go beyond the numbers. They’ve got videos. Do you have immigrant employees? They’ve got I nine tips. They’ve got high impact grant proposals. Also sexual harassment, awareness, video and others. You’ll find them at wegner-C.P.As dot com. Quick resource is and recorded events. Now let’s go back to neuro diversity. Peter Shankman checks is, uh, Texas. Take it. Work email. He does, uh, taking advantage of Ah, 32nd. I didn’t tell you was only 32nd break. Each break is doing well. The next one’s about a minute and 1/2. I

[00:10:41.29] spk_0:
could write a book,

[00:10:48.14] spk_3:
book your flight. All right. You could book the flight to write the book. Um, now you mentioned single Dad. Something has happened in the past five years. I’m sorry about

[00:10:51.18] spk_6:
that. I think things happen

[00:10:52.78] spk_3:
for a reason.

[00:11:05.33] spk_0:
The universe in its one told the way it should. I’m still very good friends of my ex. We have a great relationship, but I don’t have Thio. You know, they’re just certain times that you realize that that, um, the universe unfolds like Is that the way it should? And so I love being a single bad. My daughter is six and 1/2. Um, God help you if you forget the half. Um, she’s not just six, uh, give Aquino yesterday the Lego. And so when she comes home tonight, there are 15 new Lego sets.

[00:11:23.07] spk_3:
That school was a three hour keynote where

[00:11:27.52] spk_6:
it was 45 minutes. But it was very cool to hang out there

[00:11:29.40] spk_3:
and it couldn’t be done.

[00:12:51.12] spk_0:
I have. I am now the one of the first owners of the new international Space station Lego, which doesn’t hit stores. You’re worried. You’re very excited about that. So now it’s fun. It’s, uh, you know, I I love, try to explain. It was fun to watch her. Don’t explain what Daddy does for a living. Daddy talks to people, you know, It’s pretty much what I do. Yeah. On. You know how me since it in office of Daddy talks to people I like. I like my title better, but, you know, it’s it’s fun. It’s It does provides some interesting, uh, logistical, uh, intrigue. You know, I I know all single parents record. A lot of my travel is international. Um, I you know, I give speeches over the world and, you know, a couple of scholars and Asia. I gave a talk, um, on a Friday. And so I left Wednesday morning, uh, dropped my daughter off at school Wednesday morning. Went right to work. Um, booked a flight. Uh, are you boarded? A flight Wednesday at around 11 to Tokyo landed Thursday night at 7 p.m. Um, spoke. You know, went to those health, got some sleep, woke up, went to the gym, spoke at 9 a.m. Friday morning I was taken to the airport, got on a 2 p.m. Flight are four PM flight from Tokyo on Friday afternoon and landed in New York with time change at 4 p.m. Find infinite. And when I’m picking my daughter and you know, I was a zombie, but I didn’t miss a night with her. You know, it’s tough, but it’s a lot of fun. And, um, I couldn’t imagine, you know, doing anything

[00:13:05.30] spk_3:
Excellent. What else besides a DHD falls under no

[00:13:09.50] spk_6:
diversity in any kind

[00:13:39.03] spk_0:
of brain that is different than what we consider normal. So, you know, we’re looking at a Ph. D a d d. Autism executive function spending on the spectrum Asperger’s things like that and what we’re finding, and what studies have finding is that, um when creative people who are and almost everyone with a no diversion brain is creative, when these great people are given the ability to work in a way that works for them, right? Productivity goes to the roof

[00:13:40.18] spk_6:
dyslexia, just like she is

[00:13:46.11] spk_0:
included as well. And productivity goes through the roof. And, um, but you have to understand how people work, not everyone.

[00:13:50.14] spk_4:
Um uh

[00:14:12.08] spk_0:
works the same way, you know, And and, uh, the premise of we all have to get in at 9 a.m. And punch in and do that, you know, is really a thing of the past. And what companies are finding is if they allow their employees to, um, work the way that works for them. Company productivity goes to the roof. We’ve seen that countless times, over and over and over again. You know, you look at a company that has these rigid rules, which is a company that allows people to do work the way they want to and the people who do it the way they want to tend to the company, send a much more productive and generate more revenue unless cost.

[00:14:27.58] spk_3:
Okay. And this includes the newer, diverse community

[00:16:30.51] spk_0:
don’t know much about. You know, you’re looking at a workforce 25 to 30% want provide motivation. 25 to 30% of the workforce is gonna be no divers. And these are the people who are your creative right. These the people who are coming up with new ways to work new ideas, these the ones who are creating who are discovering all these sort of things. Good friend of mine is a PhD candidate at Harvard, and, um, she is very much engaged, and she, you know, they work in a lab where she she’s a PhD in the something with skin, huh? I’m totally spacing, not dermatology. I’m spacing. Basically, she she works with skin cells, and, um, you know, so she says a lot of time on her feet in a lab, you know, mixing skin cells, whatever does they dio? And then, um, she has to go back and analyze the data and what she does when she analyzed that data, she actually goes into a conference room that no one is in, and we’ll sit with her charts and her laptop in her, grafts on that and do the same thing that she could do at her desk. But her desk is an open floor plan. And even with headphones, she sees people at the corner of her eye walking around this and that and a distraction. And so she goes into a place where she can work and she will be 10 times productive and, you know, 1/3 of the time it would take her to do it or to other people to do it. So you know. And she explained that to her. Her, um, director, You know the labs. Look, look, just trust me this I work better this way. And sure enough, she does. You know, Andi, the her output is is very, very high. Um, but she has to be in that in that zone, you know, that’s my zona focuses an airplane. You know, it’s it’s or, you know, it’s also places where, um I’m able to get the dope mean that I need and then utilize it. So the thing about don’t mean is that once you get a huge hit of it, it doesn’t just go away. All right? You have to disperse it out over several hours has dissipate. So when I go to the drop zone upstate, I’ll take my my parachute, my rig, and I’ll do a jump and I land and I’ll throw my gear in the corner. Tony, re pack up some of you in the corner. Pull up my laptop, right. 10,000 words. Really? Oh, yeah, in like an hour. Yeah,

[00:16:36.85] spk_6:
I after, right after the jump. So you

[00:16:39.50] spk_3:
somewhere and then you know,

[00:16:40.82] spk_0:
I I land at the drop zone carrying my gear into the hangar. I throw in a corner, I pull out my laptop just right of the

[00:16:47.93] spk_3:
drops. Are you already at a building? And you start writing? Yeah,

[00:16:50.30] spk_0:
and I’m sitting up on the floor of my lifetime. I was right because, you know, that’s where I’m just so full of those chemicals. It’s like it’s like it’s like I’ve just done a lot of coke, You know it and it’s great. It’s healthy, a lot healthier than doing a lot of guys suppose for sure. But you know it. You don’t just get rid of it

[00:17:06.28] spk_6:
and all those chemicals in there, because the goal is to

[00:17:08.25] spk_0:
keep you alive. When you’re in the air, right, you’re don’t means you’re turning your gentle and they all are front and center when you’re jumping. Because for someone like me, you know, totally imagine myself without those chemicals.

[00:17:18.02] spk_6:
Okay, out the plane I gotta pull my parachute to look at the sun’s all shiny,

[00:18:18.71] spk_0:
you know? So so the chemicals are there to prevent that on, but when you land, they don’t just go away. You have to dissipate them of several hours. So for me, you know, that’s when I get somebody’s work done. That’s a great man. That’s great story works. It works really well, it’s Ah, it’s Ah, you know, you know where you are. Some people, it’s a run. I’ve done 5 10 mile runs and I’ll come back and be so wired that also dental work as well. Um, I’ll take a shower first, but, you know, it is it does. You’ve got to figure out what works for you and what works for employees, you know? And if you give your employees that ability to do that to to to work in such a way where they can, um, be most beneficial to themselves. You know, that’s the biggest thing we don’t seem to realize is that you know, this whole mentality of all work, work, work. Now, you know, no sleep work is bullshit. You know, if you don’t know how to take care of yourself first, right? If you’re not putting yourself first, if you’re not putting self care first, you know, if you have some of these entrepreneurs out there, you

[00:18:20.40] spk_6:
know, if you have, you know, work for 12 hours. Then you come home. We have to feed your kid if you only have four hours of sleep. Well, sleep two of them. And what you just told someone kill themselves. What is wrong with

[00:18:28.12] spk_0:
you? You gotta focus on yourself. You take care yourself. Self care is massive. Important exercise. Eat a goddamn vegetable. Everyone’s don’t write. Not everything has to come in a burger or a bun.

[00:18:37.93] spk_3:
Yeah, take care of yourself. Then you can

[00:18:41.30] spk_6:
take the oxygen mask their

[00:18:42.14] spk_3:
caregivers for auction parents. Yeah. All right. So how are we doing? Oh, I’m not. I’m too far from my Oh, I was worried about him. I’m too far. Okay, Um,

[00:18:54.34] spk_0:
no one’s ever told me I’m too soft. Uh, the letter.

[00:19:05.43] spk_3:
Let’s Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Beautiful segue way. So let’s talk about employers. Let’s start with the, um, the recruiting. It’s gotta be different than sitting for an interview for 30 or 40 minutes. But

[00:19:10.91] spk_0:
there’s a man who just told me I have to sit here for an hour,

[00:19:12.81] spk_6:
but I would argue that it does. It does have to be fun. Interview. Here’s the thing

[00:19:24.68] spk_0:
about what has to be different you know, you have to understand that the people you’re hiring again, they come from them. 50 years ago, any kind of disability was not talked about, right? I love that episode of Mad Men Where the guys a raging alcoholic and

[00:19:31.97] spk_6:
says, You know, you go away, we’ll tell people you’re on

[00:19:33.77] spk_0:
your own. You know, in a client leave for three months ago

[00:19:37.06] spk_6:
upstate you come back a new

[00:19:39.75] spk_0:
man, you know, telling people your client leave for three months. Three

[00:19:42.41] spk_6:
hysterical people half the shorts I own probably state

[00:19:49.75] spk_0:
that I’m a th day. My favorite shirt is a DHD in the in the font of a C D c h d. I’m on a highway to oh, squirrel, you know? And so it’s it’s it’s that waiter,

[00:19:56.45] spk_3:
huh? Wait, what?

[00:19:57.03] spk_0:
Highway to squirrel? Squirrel. And so, you know, I love that I love that premise and and the fact that we are sort of out there and talking about it and proud of how our brains work, you know? So

[00:20:08.74] spk_6:
before you can even start recruiting,

[00:20:36.83] spk_0:
you have to. As a company, you have to understand that you have to own that, you know, and make your workforce a place where the neuro diverse want to work because they have the opportunity to go anywhere now and, you know, much like it comes down. University. Essentially what back in the nineties and earlytwo thousands, diversity was was skin color, and then it became sexual orientation, you know, and and now it has to become no diversity.

[00:20:37.64] spk_3:
Is this not covered under the Americans disability? That it is now is

[00:22:07.53] spk_0:
not so you know it. Perhaps it will be, but the you know and I’m not a lawyer any like that. But the premise have, Doctor, there’s say that more often, but the premises is that you have to. I understand that if you’re hiring, you know, people need to work in a certain way, and if you are willing to give them the opportunity, they will impress you. Every single time. I had a I had a I was doing consulting gig for a company big fast food chain, didn’t know them, and, um, they were trying to figure out how to get had a cater to you, the New Rivers market and, you know, let’s go and let’s have lunch at your restaurants. We went into one of the restaurants 135 items on the menu in front over ads interspersed with commercials on a digital board. I want to blow my brains out, you know, walk into you. So I said, OK, let’s go. Someone’s on the West Coast. Let’s go somewhere else now and let’s walk down the street to in and out Burger, where the menu is hamburger cheeseburger fries shake, right? You see the Peacefulness here? The com That’s the one you know you have to understand. Sometimes the concept of choice is death sentence, right? And so how can you give your employees that which they need? I joke if I’m dating someone Are you know, said this summer my wife the time she never really understood it. But the premises, like, don’t. If we’re gonna go out for dinner and I ask you what you want, don’t

[00:22:10.92] spk_6:
say Oh, just pick something.

[00:22:22.63] spk_0:
Anything’s fine because you will wind up trying monkey brains. You know, I guarantee that you know, instead say, I’m feeling either Italian or Chinese. Great. You’ve just given me two options. I will pick one, right, But don’t Don’t tell me or whatever you want because that’s

[00:22:25.31] spk_3:
not walk up and down Ninth at

[00:22:26.63] spk_6:
45 minutes. Exactly.

[00:22:39.01] spk_0:
Zimbabwe. Exactly. So be aware of of how you’re working with these people talking to them how you were doing with them. You know, for instance, I have a lot of clients who are their famous

[00:22:41.26] spk_6:
catchphrase. I just get anyone

[00:22:58.25] spk_0:
can get it. No rush. Well, that’s that’s That’s not okay, because I will never get it, because you’ll be the most important thing on my plate until the next important thing. So I require every client to give me a deadline. I require my assistant to get me a deadline for every single thing I have to do. Actually, I need

[00:23:02.34] spk_6:
this Thursday, 3 p.m. Okay, if I know is there’s a big BM. I’m gonna get it done. If you tell me you can get it whenever, okay, I’ll get to it. And you’re

[00:23:05.32] spk_0:
never getting that thing. So you have to give me a deadline

[00:23:08.64] spk_3:
on part of this preparation is sensitizing the other employees in the in the office, in the in the organization as to what? What you expect.

[00:23:18.80] spk_6:
Yeah, you know, it’s not. It’s not like you need to widen

[00:23:44.23] spk_0:
your doors because you bring in a wheelchair, right? It’s very, very subtle. A lot of times, Um, I have a friend of mine who has a sign on on his because he’s standing there and he’s sitting in his desk and it’s an open floor plan. She has headphones on, and he has a sign that he puts on his back. Um, you may bother me. You may not bother me, right? And if it says you may not bother me, people know to email him or leave him alone. If it says you may bother me, he’s working on something he can’t be interrupted for because thing about that is that the way the brain works is that every time you get disrupted and that could be a something simple text or email or ding from your devices. Yeah, the second you get that ding, it takes roughly 24 minutes to get back into a level of what’s called deep work. Cal Cal Norris wrote a book called Deport 24 minutes, 24 minutes. So

[00:24:08.58] spk_6:
if you get two e mails a day or two miles an hour,

[00:24:16.95] spk_0:
you’re getting nothing done. E mean slack has destroyed more productivity than an atom bomb. It is amazing how many

[00:24:20.88] spk_6:
we love slack. We use a religiously well,

[00:24:22.53] spk_0:
your productivity is going down and down. You know, my ex ex

[00:24:27.15] spk_6:
wife uses that productivity tool. It’s not. I watched her productivity goto hell when she’s using it, because she she she sits there and she she gets a response. Delicate responded right away. Well, now she’s just

[00:24:37.14] spk_0:
completely lost the train of thought 40 was working on, and it’s not gonna come back. And

[00:24:40.84] spk_6:
next thing you know, it’s two hours later. It’s

[00:24:59.85] spk_0:
lunchtime, you know, again, that’s my yet. Ah, lot of times no diverse people are gonna put rules in the place that work for them. You know, I have meetings on one day a week and they’re walking meetings like I said, but I don’t have meetings every single day. You will never catch me for a random coffee, right? You’re not gonna have coffee at 2 p.m. On Wednesday because that means I have to leave. I have to get ready to leave around one. I have to leave my apartment. 1 15 I have in my office. I have to get their meat. You it to meet from 2 to 30 to 45 Walk back to my office, Sit back down, get to It’s

[00:25:18.05] spk_6:
not gonna happen, you know, instead of going to meet you, now let’s do 15

[00:25:18.83] spk_0:
miles will head home. I’ll head home. I’m not gonna be productive at home. And I would be in the office, so we’re not gonna be like that. You wanna meet

[00:25:23.42] spk_6:
with me? Let’s meet at six a.

[00:25:27.28] spk_0:
M. For coffee or spin class or run in the park or something like that. And I will

[00:25:30.07] spk_6:
do that

[00:26:07.35] spk_0:
with you on that. It’s actually wonderfully. Ah, Darwinist IQ is well in that Those rules. If you want to meet me, we will meet before 6 a.m. for coffee for a workout. I’ll even take you to cryotherapy. Um, the greatest thing about that is that it Dominus tickly eliminates 97% of the people who said they don’t have meetings with me because if they can’t get up, if it’s not worth it to them to get up it 5 a.m. For him to meet with me. Whatever chance I don’t work with him. And so it eliminates the majority of people out there, which is really coming in the day. I hate people. An

[00:26:08.82] spk_2:
enormous part of

[00:26:10.89] spk_6:
less People have to deal with them.

[00:26:17.99] spk_3:
That’s why they’re spitting them to death and offering quite exactly cryotherapy on your terms.

[00:26:20.59] spk_2:
So a lot. So I understand.

[00:26:22.04] spk_3:
A lot of it is You have to recognize for yourself what helps

[00:26:25.70] spk_6:
is the thing you ever do you understand what works for you, right? I

[00:27:05.54] spk_0:
mean, you know, I rarely drink. I’m not gonna say I never drink occasionally, everybody, it’s very rare because I don’t have one drink. You know, I have six drinks because they’re there, and it’s very easy not to have that first drink. It’s after the first drink, but it’s very hard to sing the second time. Yeah, and so I joke. I have two speeds and only to speed. They have NAMA stay and I’ll cut a bitch and there’s no middle ground there. There’s no I don’t have a middle ground, you know You’re not going to see me. Okay, I’ll have What would Leo McGarry say in the West Wing is I don’t understand people who leave wine. You have a glass and leave half a glass. One of table. What’s wrong with him, right? Why wouldn’t you want that all the time? And it’s hundreds of true. And so what I find is that it’s much easier for me to have a club soda and not have that first drink. Um, because also, I have a drink and I have five drinks. Then

[00:27:17.15] spk_6:
I go home. I’m not drunk.

[00:27:18.84] spk_0:
I’m not, you know, slurring my words. I’m not, uh, pillaging villages. Really that. But I go to bed a little later than I want to. I wake up a little later. I might not have time for the gym when I’m trying to work out. Then my day is less than you know. And that’s why I get into that system in the first place.

[00:27:34.04] spk_3:
So, uh, let’s take our like, our second break, which is, uh, about a minute and 1/2.

[00:27:39.27] spk_6:
I’m getting water. Water?

[00:29:30.84] spk_3:
Yes, absolutely. Um, quote We’ve been very happy with Cougar Mountain software. It’s rare to encounter a problem with it, but they are always there to help walk. Be through it. Well, end quote I paraphrase a couple of words, but nothing substantive, certainly from Sally Hancock in Altuna, Pennsylvania. More raves about the customer service at Cougar Mountain Accounting Software. They have a free 60 day trial for listeners. It’s on the listener landing page, which is at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant now. Time for Tony’s Take Two. Your Decade Plan for planned giving. I put a good amount of thought into if, where you could be by 2029 if you start your plans giving fundraising program in 2020. Don’t just think of a year long plan. Think of the decade. In 10 years you’ll be You’ll have an enormous amount of people in your recognition society, which means you’ve got enormous amount of planned GIF ts. You’ll be recognizing revenue from the from the program. You’ll be offering a lot of different vehicles way beyond just charitable bequests, which is a place to start. Um, you might even by that time have either have or have the evidence that you should have a full time director of planned giving you can be. You could be very far along and planned giving fundraising by 2029 if you start in 2020 and I lay out a decade long plan in the video, which is your That’s it. You’re decade plan for planned giving, and it is at Tony’s take to know that is Tony’s take to the video. Is that tony-martignetti dot com? Now let’s go back to Nora. Diversity

[00:29:32.99] spk_0:
the pill because I have some

[00:29:34.53] spk_2:
I’m feeling. No, you said you make it sound. Not so bad I joined

[00:29:46.79] spk_3:
the club, Our fourth entry in The Innovators, Siri’s with Peter Shankman about emerging neural divergent economies on the workforce. Um,

[00:29:49.32] spk_2:
yeah, no, I mean when you have it

[00:29:50.43] spk_3:
under management and you and you have figured out what?

[00:29:53.50] spk_6:
Well, that’s it. You’re out. There was a scientist

[00:30:03.92] spk_0:
once who came out, but don’t don’t. Scientists came up with this term of somebody call type type T and there’s tape, Tea party, you know, you you take These are type B’s in the tape tee, and then he divided that in taped a pilot of type B negative type B

[00:30:11.87] spk_6:
positive. Basically type tease

[00:30:23.70] spk_0:
the ones who take risks. They like to you know, they’re a DHD. Their brains produce less mon ami inhibitors than no people motto. Motto mean mono amine ox. Today’s inhibitors Okay, I type probably totally butchered, butchered that term. But again, that’s why I’m not a doctor.

[00:30:30.06] spk_6:
So the top, that’s the stuff that makes us

[00:33:00.44] spk_0:
don’t mean right. And if you have, people like me have 25% less of them. That’s why we do things to you know, that’s what we got. That’s why we did. But there’s two into this scientist, uh, theorized that there were two types of type t type B positive and type B negative in Tempe. Positive people who get that I don’t mean and the adrenaline that search on those modeling oxidase inhibitors in positive ways. Right? So I speak publicly, you know, be on stage in front of 10,000 people. I’m high as a kite. Its greatest feeling in the world. Ah, skydiving exercise. Whatever. The guest of big, there are people who get those negative ways. Um, you know, crime, uh, drugs, whatever. And you know that how people you know, that there’s an estimation that 75% or higher number of people in prison number of males in prison are undiagnosed. 80 80 80. You know, it makes perfect sense, right? You’re You’re bored. You’re not excited. You need something So let’s, you know, get steal this car through bad bag, right? And so So it comes down to sort of what you can learn about yourself. You know, looking back on my schooling and realizing I mean, I I teach. Sometimes the teachers would talk about me and they couldn’t believed they were talking about the same kid because my English teacher would have nothing but rave reviews about how amazing I wasn’t how much how attended. I wasn’t how focused I wasn’t how much I look, how great of a writer I was. Mad teachers be like It’s not the same kid. He’s nothing but a distraction. He causes he, you know it needs to sit. Tony bugs the whole class. He doesn’t, you know. And it was like they were literally that. How are you talking about the same child? Campy. And it’s true, because in English, I was, you know, put put, uh, God, what’s the book? Black Boy by Richard Wright. You to read the freshman in high school, and I was just enthralled with that book I read, apparently every year. Now it’s such an amazing book, and you know, I remember reading, getting to Shakespeare and and pirate and just, you know, being they have to have to tap me on the shoulder to get me out of class because my next class, because I just be so enthralled. But I was sitting in math class, you know, I learned that you could sink your watch to the the Bell system. And so, you know, I’d be in math class. And then just for fun, just to mess with a teacher, I’d go 54321 and the Bellagio off right at a job, drove the teacher

[00:33:11.47] spk_6:
crazy. But I love

[00:33:34.06] spk_0:
that it comes down to understanding that some things you love, some things you don’t How do you change your brain so that the things you don’t love you can still do well. And that’s what um, uh, employers. I need to learn as well. Yeah, that not everything their employees do their employees and love. So how can you give them an environment that benefits them with stuff that they don’t love? They could still get through and do well

[00:33:49.62] spk_3:
first. Thank you for talking directly to the listeners who are neural diverse. More importantly, you’re motivating the individuals to listen. You want to talk about the organization,

[00:34:11.07] spk_0:
listeners. Kids are important as well, because right now they’re our listeners. Your show Who’s Children have just been diagnosed, like today or last week or whatever with a d d or a D h d. And they’re freaking out. The parents are freaking out more than the kids. And so to the parents, I tell you right now that your kid is not broken, pardon my French kids fucking awesome and and And your kid is gonna change the world. And you know, you don’t sit there and say, Oh my God, he’s not like everyone else. Be thankful he’s not like everyone else. Because if I was like everyone else, we wouldn’t be sitting here. I wouldn’t be on this on your show. I’d be working in an office somewhere and pretty miserable,

[00:34:25.86] spk_3:
Miserable. There wouldn’t be. Would not have been a hard right.

[00:34:27.73] spk_0:
No, that wouldn’t be Harold or anything like that. So, you know, I am so thankful every day on it again, growing up, a lot of it sucks because we didn’t know what it was. You know? I remember my dad.

[00:34:37.16] spk_6:
Why can’t you just listen in. Glad who knew? You know, I couldn’t. And and fortunately,

[00:34:49.03] spk_0:
we have much more knowledge now of you know what goes on with this button? Yeah. Thio To be able to have a different brand. I’m thankful for that every single day.

[00:35:06.74] spk_3:
So let’s talk organizationally. What can we do? Two way talk some about the preparation but the interviewing getting encouraging, people Thio come on. And proving to the individual that this is a place where you want to work

[00:35:47.34] spk_0:
Explain that you’re you’re company. Everyone says their companies different. Show that your company is different. You know, they’re some companies have completely outlawed meetings, right? Completely banned sitting in the conference room there cos a band power point. And I think that’s pretty the best thing you could possibly do, right? Who the hell wants to sit in the meeting for two hours looking at slide after slide and listen to a person explain those slides. You know, I’d rather jump out the window. So what can you do for your, um, for your employees to show not just tell, but to show that it’s a positive place to work. Right. Um, are you gonna let your

[00:35:48.57] spk_6:
and Santos about Oh, you’re going from home. Well, that’s great,

[00:35:51.27] spk_0:
But are you gonna give them the tools to do that right? It’s one

[00:35:54.95] spk_6:
thing to say Sure work from home. But home might not be the best

[00:36:15.13] spk_0:
place for people, either. I have a friend of mine who loves working. He lives in California and he loves working from parks, right? He’ll go like a national park and he’ll bring. He’ll have a wireless connection satellite, whatever Internet and, uh, you know, climb a mountain. And I said, the top of mountains work for, like, eight hours. Expect other people to go upto. You know, what’s

[00:36:17.16] spk_6:
the meaning of life? Nothing. But he said,

[00:36:18.60] spk_0:
their legs crossed with his laptop, getting work done, breathing fresh air. And he

[00:36:26.44] spk_6:
loves it. He’s so ridiculously productive, right? Enormously productive. Unbelievable. Yeah, he’s he’s returning. And he’s creative creative director Chris China, and he’s returning art

[00:36:31.45] spk_0:
artwork to the client that you know would blow you away. And he’s doing it because he’s in his his happy place.

[00:36:46.89] spk_3:
Yeah, um, and then and keeping people too, You know, you’ve shown them at the at the outset that this is a place that they want to be, um,

[00:36:47.45] spk_6:
keeping people in them. It’s important you have to be able to think about

[00:37:01.21] spk_0:
no diversity is that it’s fluid, right? It’s not If you try to grab on to it, you know, like a newtonian fluid that if you put your hand on very slowly, you can movie, handle the bottom. If you hit it really hard, you can’t even get 1/4 inch down, right? Basically, take some water and corn starch and mix them up, and you can create non Newtonian fluids. And the A

[00:37:11.78] spk_6:
D. H. D.

[00:37:12.19] spk_0:
And new diversity is similar in that if you

[00:37:14.08] spk_6:
try to hold on

[00:37:42.29] spk_0:
to it, you try to position them in one path where they’re not allowed to move. You’re gonna find resistance, right? But if you let it flow through you and and you understand, that’s a fluid system that does have to move, and that change has to happen and you have to be able to adapt to that, you’ll be a lot better. Offices, organization, you know, they’re gonna They’re gonna be times where, um, there are days when I wake up and no amount of exercise is going to get my focus on track for whatever reason, right, mate, And sleep well, whatever. But I’m not. I’m just not gonna be productive. And I know that. And I will tell Megan I’m like, Okay, you know what? I’m having a day Cancel my meetings. I’m going off the drop zone or I’m going swimming on workout.

[00:37:55.88] spk_3:
It’s that last minute.

[00:37:57.02] spk_6:
Yeah, and And I’ll feel it. I wake up thinking about

[00:37:59.93] spk_0:
some things off today, and

[00:38:02.16] spk_6:
that’s an end. It doesn’t happen. Rarely happens. But it does happen. Right? Um, it happened

[00:38:06.33] spk_0:
like, I think less and I was like, October. Um, and

[00:38:09.01] spk_6:
I felt that I just woke up like you know what? I

[00:38:17.46] spk_0:
got nothing. I got nothing here. Megan, I have a meeting. 11. Do me a favor and cancel it. I’m going to the gym. Like what? It was like I don’t need a day. So I went to the gym. I did like

[00:38:20.47] spk_3:
she knows you by now.

[00:38:21.22] spk_6:
Yeah, I did like 10,000

[00:38:36.45] spk_0:
meter swim. Ah, I did like half an hour on the rower. You know, I did the bike, and I just That was what I could do right. And so, as an employer, you need to understand that there are gonna be times when you’re, you know, you call the mental health days in a mental health day. Well, that’s real, you know, and a Zen employer, you have to be flexible enough to allow for that. And the

[00:38:43.91] spk_6:
nice thing is, is

[00:38:52.07] spk_0:
that when you do allow for it, you’ll find that your employees not, um they don’t take advantage of you. They might take advantage of the health day every once in a while and

[00:38:55.30] spk_6:
say no, any today I’ll take a day.

[00:39:05.97] spk_0:
But when you give that more studies and more studies have shown that when you give them the ability to make their own choices right, they’re not gonna screw you more often than not, the non chemistry

[00:39:08.44] spk_3:
something you alluded to is, you know, like the typical career path they your neuro diverse, may not necessarily want to be promoted,

[00:39:21.62] spk_0:
right. There are people who are in positions that they’re really great and they want to stay there. Um, you

[00:39:22.06] spk_6:
know, it’s something else

[00:39:32.00] spk_0:
to consider for millions of years of evolution. Millions years, we hunted, and that’s how we got our food and we would run after a saber toothed tiger. And if we killed it, we’d eat. And if we didn’t kill it, we wouldn’t eat. We’d starve. And so we became very adept at short bursts of energy and short bursts of focus Right where we kill this tiger. And then

[00:39:47.20] spk_6:
we have, like, three or four days just,

[00:39:48.13] spk_0:
you know, eat. And she’ll whenever and there’s the food started to disappear Go battle. It would hunt

[00:39:53.42] spk_6:
again. Then we discovered

[00:39:57.29] spk_0:
agriculture. But 1100 years ago, and we just get the hell

[00:39:58.12] spk_6:
out 100

[00:40:11.87] spk_0:
years in the history of our existence is, you know, less than the width of a period on a full novel. And so, if you have to imagine, if you’re thinking about, um why why are we just gonna go?

[00:40:13.48] spk_6:
Why are we discovering it now? Are we seeing so

[00:41:10.30] spk_0:
much more of it now? Because you know what to look for. It’s always been there looking Einstein. Divinci Minutes, people, classic eighties. You no question about it. Um what? We understand what to look for now, you know, And in the course of human history were so far, are so so just at the nano pubescent era. We haven’t even started. You know, if you go down the line of of human growth, we’re just now barely beginning to crack the surfaces to what’s out there. And so, you know, if you well, we’ve had a 100 years of farming that’s nothing. In the in the history of the grand scheme of time, there’s nothing. And so you’re taking millions of people who grew their entire lineage, You know, that the entire human race was based on going out hunting, farming, you know, hunting. Then all of

[00:41:11.11] spk_6:
a sudden, the last second you change. Okay, Don’t hunt. Now sit down and farm.

[00:41:39.01] spk_0:
Well, you know, we’re gonna get fat, and we have a lot of energy that we need to dispel some other way, and we’re not going to able to do that. Lookit, lookit, history. Look. Att. The Romans look at the Europe in the 12th century, the only people who are fat with the kings because everyone else was working and they were out there. No hunting and gathering of it, you know, And then over time, what we’re seeing now is, you know, it’s so much the

[00:41:42.59] spk_6:
other thing was also Is

[00:42:00.28] spk_0:
that the rise of of bad for us? Food flat. But a word is playoff proliferating. Um, you don’t see that in ah, in countries that have less fast food options.

[00:42:01.44] spk_3:
Although we’ve us has done a good

[00:42:25.06] spk_0:
job, We explored everywhere. Yeah, bad food. You see all the stomachs growing in other countries as well. But, you know, we didn’t have that 1000 years ago. Either we had healthy. You know, I joked that I tried to eat food that if my grandmother back when she was, like, six years old in 1980 whatever. If she wouldn’t have recognized his food, I’ll try not to eat it right. You know, she look a cheating with, you know, but she understands the potato is she understands what? You know Broccoli. Is

[00:42:34.15] spk_3:
that it? Michael Pollan. Did you steal that from? You have only eat foods that your grandmother would recognize.

[00:42:42.50] spk_6:
I know where I got it. Had at first been saying that for years that the two things I say is that and then shop the edges of the supermarket because the outside of the supermarkets world healthy food is the crab is on the inside, right?

[00:42:48.41] spk_2:
What? We still have. All

[00:42:49.25] spk_3:
right. Let me take our last break.

[00:42:50.64] spk_6:
Well, I’m faster than normal. That’s why. That’s why. Good. That’s what happened.

[00:42:57.96] spk_3:
Um, I’m worried. About what? I should let you go. I mean, I

[00:42:59.60] spk_6:
know I’m just one of them entering tax. I

[00:43:57.80] spk_3:
don’t want you to leave. All right. Time last break turned to communications. Did you ever wonder how some nonprofits always get mentioned in the news and it pisses you off? It’s because they well, you could You could use Harrow. You could actually lose Harrow. Help a reporter out. You could also, uh, try to build long term relationships with the journalists that matter to you and turn to can help you do that as well. Their former journalists, including from the Chronicle of Philanthropy, our community. So to build a long term sort of sustaining relationships so that you get great coverage when it matters. When the news breaks and you want to be quoted, you’re the expert. That’s the kind of relationship you want there, a turn hyphen to dot CEO, and we do have butt loads. More time for new road diversity. And Peter Shankman, uh, I’m gonna throw it to you for, you know what else? What else would you like? Nonprofit organizations to know about neural diversity. We certainly talked About what? What the community brings

[00:44:06.90] spk_6:
one of the cool things look

[00:44:15.87] spk_0:
spring about. No diversity, I think, is that we tend to come up with ridiculously brilliant ideas that when you

[00:44:17.37] spk_2:
hear them

[00:44:27.09] spk_0:
for the first time, you might not think of as brilliant. You might think that, you know, we just told you that we’re a spotted owl. Um, but that’s the fun of it is our brains work a little differently and we think, sort of not outside the box. You think outside the park really were in an entirely different world? And one of things that I’ve seen happen many a time is You know, I remember this used to happen all the time with my ex

[00:44:41.48] spk_6:
wife. I I had this great idea, and

[00:44:45.49] spk_0:
you get Okay, here we go, you know, and

[00:44:46.28] spk_6:
she wasn’t angry. Just like Okay, where is this

[00:44:49.66] spk_0:
gonna wind us up? You know, we’re gonna be in Thailand by tomorrow. How do you know what’s gonna happen? Ideas before?

[00:44:53.92] spk_6:
Yeah, and and but the thing is Is

[00:45:21.78] spk_0:
that you know, that concept of great ideas led me to start Harrow, right? It it led me to start a podcast. Everything I’ve done has come from that, because when you’re when you’re near a diverse, you’re so used to getting t getting those weird looking people that you don’t give a shit anymore. And so you have 99.9% of brilliant ideas in this world have never actually been implemented because people are afraid of whether it was gonna pay. It

[00:45:23.19] spk_6:
kills me, right? Like the highway is littered

[00:45:38.16] spk_0:
with brilliant ideas that never saw the light of day because someone was afraid of what people might think When you’re a DHD or no divers, you spent your life with people looking at you and mocking you and talking. So you

[00:45:40.04] spk_6:
just don’t give a shit anymore, so I’ll get out there. Hey, here’s a crazy It may work. It may not have had just many failures have had successes,

[00:45:45.28] spk_0:
but when I’ve had the successes, they’ve really blown up.

[00:46:07.36] spk_3:
Okay, great creativity. And, uh, there’s there’s a very good article that I read preparing from Harvard Business Review it Zo listeners, you might be interested. It’s a May June 2017 issue of Harvard Business Review on I Think It’s called Neuro Diversity. And then there’s you also find Peter Shankman and interviewed by a psychology today. You were profiled,

[00:46:12.75] spk_6:
you know. But that’s the funny thing. Is some problem Mexico today and then I’m also

[00:46:18.98] spk_0:
profiled by, um, by traffic magazine. Right.

[00:46:21.01] spk_6:
And if you look at me, you know damn well that I’m not profit by Travel magazine for like winning traffic runs right? I’m profile, but Athlete magazine is

[00:46:32.88] spk_0:
one of the funniest people in traffic. Because I wrote it, I created a video that was based on the conversations I had with an ex girlfriend who could never understand why I could never go out and have brunch or stay out late on a Saturday night is always had an early ride or late, you know, long run or whatever, and I made

[00:46:44.49] spk_6:
this video and every single traffic related to it and everything. Oh my God, I always think that stuff well, I create

[00:46:50.55] spk_0:
the video because I just Why not? When you’re near a diverse, that’s why not is your favorite word, you know,

[00:46:55.73] spk_6:
why not Let’s try it. Let’s see what happens. You got me in trouble a lot. Growing up,

[00:47:09.60] spk_0:
I, um Yeah, I will never forget. Um, my parents coming home and finding that I had shaved. They’re 11 year old tabby cats. And

[00:47:22.23] spk_6:
what the hell Why would you do I want to see what happened. Nothing good happens when you shave the cat. I want to see what happened. Head to toe ball. That cat was not because I used a trimmer into the cat was drugs because, you know, the feels good. He feels he felt hated

[00:47:35.18] spk_0:
my mom, and that was not very happy. But, you know, growing up once I got what I grew up, everything became the concept of trying something to see what happens is actually very, very beneficial.

[00:47:39.38] spk_3:
Why not? I mean, definitely not profit. I mean, any organization we’re talking about profit could certainly benefit from some thinking around the

[00:47:46.34] spk_0:
question about it. You know

[00:47:47.05] spk_6:
what’s the worst could happen. It fails. Try something else.

[00:47:48.87] spk_2:
Yeah, way. We’ve talked about that on the show.

[00:47:50.60] spk_3:
We’ve had people talk about testing, testing for giving Tuesday, testing your fundraising messages, testing your email, testing other communication channels. That’s that’s what we’re talking about. Just that the

[00:48:03.45] spk_2:
ideas may be a little further out.

[00:48:33.25] spk_0:
The worst fear for me is not failure. It’s it’s not having not having tried something. I When I first got my first Alexa, I had this great idea. My kid was like, I think three years old, I had this great idea about, um I wanted to build an app that would wouldn’t allow election work unless it heard the word, please. So I didn’t want my daughter thinking that she could just talk to machines without in loser manner and and so

[00:48:34.59] spk_6:
I I should do this one day. I did. Really? Yeah. Uh, someone did it, and it exists now it’s a damn apples. Piss me off. You know, it’s like, Why do you Why

[00:48:49.62] spk_0:
d the a The only, um, the biggest risk it’s been said is not taking one, you know, And that’s it. So

[00:48:50.72] spk_2:
sure, of course. You know, you see that

[00:48:52.16] spk_3:
on social media all the time. I spent most of my time when I’m in social on Twitter, and, uh, you know,

[00:48:57.51] spk_6:
there’s over died years ago. There’s always, uh oh, yeah,

[00:48:59.90] spk_0:
way. We all know why it’s still alive. It’s only there’s only one reason why it’s alive in his orange and it should be dead. Twitter should have died about four years ago. There’s literally sze I find such a little value in and I’m still on it and you have to be. But I find such little value in it now. Such a bummer. It was It was it was phenomenal. I loved Twitter back in Lego eight and I

[00:49:20.10] spk_3:
were on the show. You might have said you don’t know if Twitter will survive, but But the

[00:49:23.75] spk_6:
concept, the concept, right? Momo? Well, not not constant tweeting the continent mobile messaging the concept of short, short burst communication. And I was right. And that is everything. That every single text,

[00:49:34.74] spk_0:
every single email, every single thing that we get is short bursts, right? And and for the

[00:49:39.68] spk_6:
HD, that’s perfect. It’s quick, little Oh, let’s look Okay. So

[00:49:42.58] spk_0:
let’s move on, you know, But the premise of tradition I’m starting to have your say something.

[00:49:51.32] spk_3:
Okay? That’s all these all these, uh, advice is, you know, the trite little Yeah. Never don’t be afraid to fail that the biggest failure is never trying, you know, But but But, I

[00:49:59.50] spk_2:
mean, there’s truth in

[00:50:00.15] spk_3:
it, but it seems trite.

[00:50:06.16] spk_6:
Well, everything seems t social media fucked everything up because nobody but nobody.

[00:50:06.66] spk_2:
You know, people are

[00:50:07.21] spk_6:
the last thing on. That’s right. I’m still see things. Yes. Thank you for sending 10,000 person conferences and telling them Be transparent. Be relevant.

[00:50:14.14] spk_0:
Be be, be brief. Being really

[00:50:17.05] spk_6:
Well, it’s so obvious. Then why aren’t you doing it? Test it. Try it.

[00:50:24.73] spk_3:
All right. Very true. We wrapped up. Sam, is that, uh we

[00:50:28.71] spk_2:
got five minutes off. Never gonna add. Oh, my gosh. Five minutes left. Oh,

[00:50:29.84] spk_3:
we started five minutes late. Yes, that’s what I’m looking at. The clock on Sam’s. All right, Um,

[00:50:36.43] spk_2:
tell me. Tell me more.

[00:50:55.71] spk_0:
Um, I could tell you that I One of the things that I find is is very, uh, everyone in whose no divers tends to have in common. We’re either incredibly productive or we do nothing at all again. No middle ground.

[00:50:56.87] spk_3:
This was the nomis day. All

[00:51:44.41] spk_0:
right? So I will I will. So, for instance, I have wanted I have done to Iron Man in my life to Ironman triathlons, and I want to do 1/3 1 and I for years I would say, OK, this is a year, and I haven’t had the impetus kick in the pants to sign up and and and pay the money. Paid almost $1000 to register for that. And something fell in my lap this year where it looks like I’ll be doing my 3rd 1 in in October. If you wait for the right moment, you’re never gonna have it. Yeah, right. And so again, that’s why I tend to say yes to almost everything in the world. Um, figure how to do it later, right? So I know that if I do my third eye, man, I’m gonna have to Basically from, like, mid February to October. I am going to be in that zone where I’m gonna be doubling my workouts. I’m gonna be, You know, my sleep will

[00:51:50.55] spk_6:
suffer. Not

[00:52:08.85] spk_0:
tremendously. I’ll still get enough sleep. But, you know, after putting my kid down eight o’clock, I might not go right to bed. I might have to do another two hours on bike. Isn’t like that. And, um but you I guess the point. Grantmakers What I find is that you make time for what’s important, right?

[00:52:12.33] spk_6:
Because of the end of the day, I’m still I’m still having the same 24 hours. That’s not gonna change. I’m not gonna find the time. Right. So you have to make it and you make it expensive. Something else.

[00:52:19.96] spk_0:
So you figure out what? What’s not important? A good friend of mine

[00:52:23.48] spk_6:
I understand so early. It’s amazing. You’re I wish I could do that like you can. No, I don’t know. I don’t know. You can. How do I do that? Well, okay, so I see that

[00:52:31.98] spk_0:
you’re liking, um shit on Facebook at 2 a.m. Maybe. You know, don’t do

[00:52:37.87] spk_6:
that. You know, it’s like we all have the same amount of time, and and how we utilize it is what

[00:52:43.43] spk_3:
matters. All right, out of respect for you, because the hour is really it’s an artificial. It’s an artificial

[00:52:47.90] spk_6:
country. Exactly. That exists

[00:52:50.94] spk_3:
to an hour, so we’re gonna leave it there. I really wanna thank you

[00:52:52.90] spk_6:
for your time. Thank you. Come back another five years.

[00:52:57.18] spk_3:
Thanks a lot for sure. You’ll find him at Peter Shankman. Peter

[00:53:03.38] spk_0:
Shankman. Peter Shankman. another Socials and peter shankman dot com and apparition shankman dot com.

[00:53:07.84] spk_3:
And at Peter Shankman, you also see he’s now a futurist in residence. We get just talk about

[00:53:11.53] spk_0:
epic epic marketing consultants, a great company in a Delaware. They hired me as their futurists futurist in residence. Yeah, so I come up with ideas. I I write white papers on what I think is gonna happen. Then we see if I’m

[00:53:24.41] spk_3:
right. Thank you very much. Next week, it’s our Valentine’s Day show relationship. Fundraising naturally with Adrian Sergeant. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by

[00:53:40.40] spk_2:
cooking meth in Software Denali Fund

[00:53:58.13] spk_3:
Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. A

[00:54:38.88] spk_2:
creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York We’re a pre recorded today, so there wasn’t live. Listen, love podcast pleasantries. But of course, you know the sentiment goes out. Those sentiments always go out. You with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Who Brings Sunshine To Your Mission? Tell The Stories Of Your Hero Worker Bees

Dive deep and think hard about who in your org is critical to your mission. Who gives it life and delivers sunshine? Use your digital storytelling to share their critical work with your donors, your board, your volunteers, newcomers, even employees.