Tag Archives: hiring

Nonprofit Radio for September 25, 2015: Smart Interviewing Makes Great Hiring & Your Job Descriptions

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Sherryl Nufer: Smart Interviewing Makes Great Hiring

Sherryl Nufer, a founding partner in Pareto Consulting, explains why Behavioral Interviewing is superior to traditional methods and how any size nonprofit can get better hires through more sophisticated interviewing, whether you hire once a year or many times a month. This is from April 13, 2012.

 

 

Heather Carpenter: Your Job Descriptions

Heather Carpenter is co-author of the book “The Talent Development Platform” and she’s got advice for your often-rushed-through, lifted-off-the-web job descriptions. (Hint: Stop doing that!)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of a cute ryan al gia if i just got a whiff of the possibility that you missed today’s show. Smart interviewing makes great hiring cheryl nufer, a founding partner in peredo consulting, explains why behavioral interviewing is superior to traditional methods and how any size non-profit khun get better hires through more sophisticated interviewing? Whether you’re hiring once a year or many times a month, this is from april thirteenth, two thousand twelve, and your job descriptions once you’ve made the hyre it’s time for job description. Heather carpenters, co author of the book the talent development program, and she’s got advice for your often rushed through lifted off the web job descriptions gotta fix that on tony’s take two social media videos responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com here is cheryl nufer if smart interviewing makes great hiring, i guess now is cheryl nufer cheryl is a founding partner of peredo. Consulting, providing small to medium sized organizations with business tools that are often available only the large for-profit corporations sounds like she’s sort of stole the tagline for this show. She’s, a strategy and organization development consultant with more than thirty years of experience, and i’m pleased that her expertise brings her on cheryl nufer welcome. Thank you so much, tony it’s really a pleasure to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you thanks, snusz what’s wrong with traditional interviewing? Cheryl well, we have a top ten list of what goes wrong in interviews, but really, they’re too big and the first one is that it’s? Hard to believe, but a lot of interviewers don’t really know what they’re looking for in a candidate, and so they just figured that the more people they interview, the better their odds it’s kind of like vegas, and they don’t know when they see it. The second big problem is that they ask risky questions when i say questions. Yeah, what is that? Yeah, i don’t know. Just wait. Typically think about what we call illegal questions. Is that a problem? But risky questions, questions that back-up candidate can prep for that. They can anticipate that they can prepare a candid answer for which may or may not be the truth. So the data on which to base your hiring decision is a lot. So those sounds like questions like what’s your strengths and your strengths and weaknesses, like those types of questions are risky that’s exactly right? Because people can anticipate them. Yeah, common ones we here are what you just said there, but it’s also questions like, what would you do in a situation? For example, if you were faced with an angry donor for this job is going to require a lot of long hours. Will that be a problem for you? Or my favorite is tell me about yourself. Why should i write? And these are risky because they’re predictable is unmentioned. Secondly, they solicit the candidates opinions and, you know, i don’t want to sound harsh, but the candidate doesn’t know a lot about what’s required for success in the job interviewer does interviewers opinion it’s most important and then laugh so you can say that? Not sound harsh if i say it, it sounds harsh coming from you. It just sounds very matter of fact unprofessional. And final thing is that they also asked the candidate to hypothesize, so if you ask me, what would you do in a particular situation? They can tell you just about anything now? Is that what they would do if they were faced with that situation? Your organization, they may or may not so again, all of these risky it’s interesting that you call very typical questions risky, but i understand. I understand why. Yeah, well, it’s all about making it’s all about collecting data to make a decision to predict how someone is going to perform in your organization and risky your your database here, your hyre decision. Alright that’s so that’s the interviewing that we’re all most familiar with, we either do it or we’ve been through it. Or both. Why don’t you just started acquaint us with behavioral interviewing? Okay, well, behavioral interviewing is not just about the interview. It’s really a business process, just like your financial processes review hr processes and it has a set of steps. And so it starts off with identifying and defining the skills for success. And then you create a line of questioning that’s based on those skills you put that in an interview guide, follow the guide. After you interview you right, candidate based on the data you collected, and then all of the interviewers get together and share their example of make a hyre or no hyre decision. So, first of all, it’s, a repeatable process. In terms of knowing what you’re looking for, i think that’s a really big difference what we talk about is looking for a balance skills well and what we’re looking for doesn’t that come from the job description? Well, not necessarily, but good question, because a lot of organizations job description are nothing more than a list of responsibilities that they will fulfill once they’re hired, but what i’m talking about is a list of skills that are required to be successful in executing those responsibilities. And so we look at those in terms of technical skills, which are really job specific and things maybe like marketing the iranians fund-raising sales and then another set of skills that we call professional skills. You might also call the sauce skills and these cross jobs and these air things like planning and team work and initiatives and judgment, integrity, those kinds of things wei have a saying that a lot of organizations hyre on technical skills when they have to fire someone. Cheryl, we have to take a break when we come back. We’ll continue this and start exploring why behavioral interviewing is better than what we’re all accustomed to please hope. Everybody stays with us, we’re talking smart interviewing makes great hiring what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people x somebody’s a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years. For foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts, tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other. Ninety five percent. Dahna welcome back with my guests, cheryl nufer of peredo consulting, you’ll find peredo consulting at parade o p r e t o hyphen h y p h e n but don’t spell hyphen just put a hyphen in consulting peredo hyphen consulting dot com. Cheryl, why is this method behavioral interviewing superior to what we’re all accustomed to? Well, that has to do a lot with the questions that you ask, i said before the other questions, key behavioral questions are based on principle that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, so if we can figure out in an interview how a person behaves in the recent past in situations that are similar to what they face in our job, then we have a pretty good idea how well behaved if we hire them. So this is the opposite of stock investing, investment advisors who will say past results or no indication of future returns, right? Okay, but past behaviour is predictor of future behavior. Yeah, because we are creatures of habit. So there is a great formula for creating a behavioral question that your listeners could start using right away. So what you do is you start with the phrase something like give me an example of the time in the past, or maybe describe the past situation, and then what you do is you go back to those skills i was talking about a minute ago, the rooms that are important for success and you plug in burbage that describes the skills so let’s say we were talking about initiative, then we’d say something like, give me an example of the time in the past when you went above and beyond job requirements or a time in the past when you anticipated a potential problem and you made contingency plans. So what you do is always in behavioral interview issues asked what people did in the past versus what they would do in the future, which is a hypothetical. So this sounds harder to fake, but i have to tell the whole story. Now you have to tell a whole story, and it is very difficult to fake because they’re hard to anticipate. And a good interviewer should be asking specific follow-up questions. I mean it’s, easy to just ask the behavioral questions, but it’s an interview are you start listening for what you want. You want a real situation? You want to understand what they said or did in that situation, and you want to know what happened, what kind of results this is scaring the heck out of me if i’m in it, i’m nervous that’s a good thing i have my own business, so i’ve never run into this well. So what if i don’t have a story about initiative? Alright, i’m under pressure. I can’t i can’t think of one well, that’s a common thing, and our goal is the interviewer is to bring out the best in the candidate. So what? We can dio that’s good that’s, that’s reassuring it’s too, because when you’re comfortable, you’re going to share more information with me so i would prompt you with questions such as what about in this specific job? Or i may rephrase the question where someone doesn’t have work experience, i’m my nasco and to think about project that they did in college or maybe a summer job so anything that i can do or i can say, you know, we can come back to that question and give you a few minutes to think about it if you’d like. There are a lot of ways to handle that it’s not uncommon for someone to freeze up. Yeah, okay, i pulled listeners before the show. One of the questions i asked is, do you feel you’re hiring? Process is efficient and you’re hiring the right candidate, and about seventy one percent said yes and about twenty nine percent i said no, so we want to help the other third, but that two thirds may not be may not be as efficient and hiring savvy as as they think. That’s, right, that’s recorders almost sorry even if they have a good track record of getting good can bring one good talent. Beauty of a behavioral approach is that up? You don’t necessarily have to interview a lot of candidates and pick the best of the lot if you know what you’re looking for and you have a good screening process and you interview the candidates and their experiences match the criteria success. Technically, you could hire the first candidate you interview, which reduces your cycle time, and it also keeps you from potentially losing a good candidate because you’re hiring cycle is too long. Have you seen organizations do that either? For-profit or non-profit don’t they don’t they typically say, well, she was very good, but maybe we’ll find somebody better, absolutely, and that they are not confident in their process. There’s something in there got that says, you know, i’m just not confident in the data, my process for evaluating it and that’s where a good process really builds confidence to make that decision when you see that good step, okay? Andi yeah, these air interesting ondas you said very these type of questions very hard to anticipate that they’re going to come. How does the interviewer prepare? You talked down a little bit, going a little more detail on and then shortly we’ll get to how many interviewers there should be, but but but how do we prepare as an interviewer? So as an interviewer, well, basically you identify the skills that are required for success in the job. Based on those skills, you develop a line of behavioral questions using the formula that i shared with you. Typically you will type those up in an interview guide or just list if you have multiple interviewer shall divide that list up among all of your interviewers, so that there are no gaps in your questioning and there’s no redundancy safe, so everyone has their game plan they interview based on that. So that’s the primary way that you would prepare a search would review the resume common things, write what you want you want it certainly want to be prepared. So if it is a a siri’s of interviews interviewers, they don’t ask the same questions then no, they don’t that’s really a waste of time, and you have so little time in an interview. You want to make sure to use it wisely. Now they ain’t me ask multiple questions about a specific skill, but they typically don’t ask the same question because if they asked the same question, the candidate will probably give the same example and that’s kind of silly. You still tell the same story twice, exactly, and you would expect that so it’s not the interview each ball that’s the interviewers fault for not being prepared. On the other hand, what if all the interviewees stories, anecdotes come from just one of their jobs or something? Or just too? And they’ve got, you know, thirty years of experience or something like that? Well, that would absolutely be a red flag either there bread through depth of experience is not what it means here on their resonate, or perhaps there’s something that they just don’t want to share with you so that’s something that you may, if you find when you bring your interviewers together, that the same stories were told to everybody, then you could either make a no hyre decision or you could make a decision to have a follow-up phone interview where you would try to clean examples from some of their other work experience. Okay, so you’d like to follow up interview to be by phone, but the first one to be in person is that right? What i’m talking about here is typically you would do a phone screen organisations and then bring the candidate in for face-to-face what i was saying is, if you feel you can’t make ah hyre no hyre decision, you know, you always have the option to follow-up again by phone and asked more questions, okay, okay, um and so since we’re talking sort of around this, what is your advice around having just one interviewer or having a siri’s of interviewers, or even having a panel. Okay, well, we would always recommend more than one interviewer, if at all possible, and you can is that just to eliminate bias of one person, it could eliminate buy-in it? I can get you more data because if you have two interviews that you have more data on which to base a decision, there are two ways of doing what we call a serial interview, which is cheryl interviews candidate hands candidate off tony who interviews to hands it off to joe, and then when you separately and then after all the interviews, you come back together and share your example and make a decision. There’s also the panel interview where you have multiple people interviewing the candidate at one time and you can do multiple panels panels are great ways to involve more people from your organization and getting exposure to candidate. You just don’t want the panels to get too big. You know what is to become a panel? Interviews khun b scary. I’ve heard stories from people who were interviewed by five people or so that’s pretty intimidating it’s very intimidating i’ve been interviewed by many has six at one time. I know a lot about interviewing and that that was a nerve ng me, what we recommend is either two or three. When it gets above three, it can not only be intimidating, but it’s difficult for the interviewers to kind of it should be choreographed. So you should have someone out of the panel who is kind of the host and is kind of orchestrating this interview. There’s not anarchy, everyone’s firing questions at the candidate and it really doesn’t set the candidate up. Cheryl nufer is a founding partner of peredo consulting. You’ll find them on the web, but peredo pr e teo hyphen consulting dot com we’re talking about smart interviewing, making great hiring, cheryl. Is there an advantage of serial interviewing over the panel or or the other way around? Well, there is an advantage in the advantage is that when you’re in a panel, if you conduct one panel interviews, all three of you are hearing the same stories, the same situation in a serial interview it’s more likely that you will hear different stories, or sometimes the same story told different ways, and so you know, that sounds bad, but it can be bad if in fact there are vast differences in the story, like your fourth step in the supposed be the results. So if the results were different in the same story across to different interviews that’s about sign that’s a red flag may be the results keep getting better and better. Three interview that’s a great way to start catching a candidate who may be fabricating for people actually do that. Is that true? Absolutely, they do. I’ve heard rumors to that effect, but i always hoped it wasn’t so another question i asked listeners before the show is our hires in your office typically interviewed by more than one person and seventy one percent said yes, fourteen percent said no, so most people are doing the multiple interviewing and then fourteen percent said depends on the job. Um all right, is there a job where the solo interview makes sense or no, you really just don’t like that at all or there’s a situation, i guess i mean when just one interviewer makes sense. Here’s what i would say in some more straightforward job, maybe some entry level jobs it could perhaps the appropriate that i say it’s no more appropriate in bigger organizations bigger cos you have a really small organisation. You have to hire the right people. You i have no where to hide them. You have no one to cover for them hyre abad a bad fit so i think it’s always good in a small organization, if possible, to have a second set of eyes and get that second set doesn’t have to be somebody that the person is going to report to, right? It could be a colleague. I mean, taken officer just four or five people. They’re going to be hiring of fifth or sixth, like a cz you’re saying that’s a big percentage of the staff, it doesn’t have to be somebody that that person would report to write absolutely not. And in a small organization of horrified people, i mean everyone’s wearing multiple hats, they really have to depend on each other. So everyone has a big stake in making sure the best person has brought onboard, so it could be a appear. It could be someone that maybe is performed well in a similar job in the past. You’re absolutely right. It could be just as long as they’re good interviewers they would be appropriate? How do we gauge technical expertise? We’ve been talking about behavior? Well, you can use behavioral questions to get that technical competencies, but technical skills are a little bit easier. For example, if you were hiring someone for fund-raising you can actually have them bring in and explain fund-raising approaches that they’ve used in the past. I mean, i would ask a lot of follow up questions to make sure that what they brought us, something they actually did. There are tests that you can use for certain technical skills. You can also do simulations, so for example, if you were hiring someone for a sales position, are fund-raising position you could actually have them come in and do a presentation to a team of you, and so you were potential donors and see how they would handle it. So there are a lot of ways to get technical. Wei have just about a minute left, cheryl, what potential problems should people look out for us if they’re goingto implement behavioral interviewing? I think the biggest problem is asking a behavioral question and assuming you’re going to get a behavioral answer, so you have to be able to sort out hypothetical responses through a good line of follow-up questioning about the situation there. Action in the results. Okay. Situation, obstacle action and results. Cheryl nufer is a founding partner of peredo consulting, which provides small to medium sized organizations with business tools that are often available only the large for-profit corporations. Cheryl, thank you very much for being a guest has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. And i hope that this information will help your eye. I think it will help listeners. Thank you very much. A pleasure to have you. Thankyou, tony. Stick to and your job descriptions coming up first. Pursuant, they have this tool. Billboard it’s integrated management for your multi-channel engagement strategies. All right, s o jargon jail. I plead guilty for that. You, khun. I could throw myself in there. Let’s. Break it down. You communicate in lots of different ways. Email landing pages, micro sites, donation forms mobile, all the social networks best to manage them all separately. No, don’t separate. Integrate! I thought that myself that’s, that’s not pursue it. Language. I thought of that billboard is integrated management and the all important analytics that go along with all these. Tools so you know which channels move more people and which don’t from mayor you learn you improve, continue that it oration, that innovative process of learning and improving based on the analytics, and you’ll raise more money. Check out billboard it’s at pursuant dot com. My video this week is the next set of non-profit technology conference videos. They’re all about social media there’s a panel of three on visual social media, another panel on email deliver ability so that those e mails that you sent through billboard actually arrive at people’s inboxes video strategy and embrace embracing emerging technology and social media. They’ve been on non-profit radio if you’ve missed them or you want the videos because you like to watch the videos, then the links are under my video at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty fifth of september thirty eighth show of the year. I’m very pleased that heather carpenter is with me. She is a phd was a non-profit manager for ten years. She’s, now assistant professor in the school of public non-profit and health administration at grand valley state university. She teaches grad and undergrad courses in non-profit management, financial management, fund-raising technology, leadership and human resources management. The book that brings our two non-profit radio is co authored with terra qualls, and it is the talent development platform putting people first in social change organizations published by josy bass this year on twitter she’s at heather carpentier, which is at heather carpenter. But take off that last are heather carpenter. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, tony it’s. A pleasure. You’re calling from grand valley university. Where’s that michigan. Right war in grand rapids, michigan, which is on the west side of the stage. Okay. Okay. That was the summer there in grand rapids. It was really nice. We have a great summer. A little harsher winters, but yeah. No, but you do have harsh winters. Yes. Okay, heather, our job descriptions he’s often get very, very short shrift, don’t they? Yes. Yes. Well, having worked in non-profits for many years and done h r and operations, i know how busy we get. And often, when people leave organizations, we scramble and pulled together what we have on dh and send out a job description that is often outdated and hasn’t been updated in a few years, or sometimes, i think, even pulled off the web. Yes, yes, you’ve seen that, yes, ok, not that you’ve done that when you were leading your non-profit i understand, but i think it’s, i think that’s, also a pretty common practice. Why do we need to focus more on job descriptions? Well, job descriptions are really an important part of helping an employee to understand there roles and responsibilities within the organization. It also helps to track employee and volunteer performance and success, and this is, ah, a living document, right way need to keep these current as job responsibilities change. Yes, we recommend that non-profits update their job descriptions, actually, on an annual basis. Okay, okay. Do you do you think that poor job descriptions lead tio? I don’t know hyre turnover or lower morale? What consequences do you think result from not having accurate descriptions? Yes, i i agree with your assertion, we’ve found that couple of things can happen with outdated job descriptions, one that’s for a new hyre they might not really fully understand the role let’s say hypothetically speak about how when organizations lose employees and they have someone coming in, and they used a job description that’s out data from the labs it’s not clearly showing the response the accurate responsibility so the person might get burned out pretty quickly, finding out they have a lot of additional latto responsibilities, or maybe they don’t even have the adequate qualifications for for the rial responsibilities. So the job or, if someone’s been in a position for a few years, there’s what we call the pile on effect where often more and more responsibilities added, but that’s not actually reflected in the job description or in compensation, so so employees can get volunteers burn out that way, and then sometimes people become overqualified for the job or might be over, claude will decide. When they come in, the job description is accurate. Does this apply also to organizations that are mostly volunteers? Should should be job descriptions for volunteers? Oh, yes, absolutely, we believe that that will our book applies to not just paid staff volunteers as well, and we actually have sample job descriptions are bored board positions and key volunteers, as well as from common staff within various non-profit organizations like your executive director, development director on bury the book is loaded with lots of resource is sample job descriptions but goes way beyond that just dahna job responsibilities and forms, you know, and we’re just taking one piece of the book and talking about job description, but there’s a lot more to it, and the thing is just loaded with but templates and resource is yes, thank you. I really wanted it to be as practical as possible, having worked in the nonprofit sector for many years, ourselves it’s more of a workbook where organizations can pick and choose the chapters that they need the resource is from, but it is a whole platform if an organization decides to go through the process for from everything from understanding the organizational. Learning and professional development culture to actually assessing stats, professional development and creating a professional development goals and abducted tied to the strategic als of the organization. Yes. All right, all right. So where do we start this job? Description process. I mean, i know who it starts with its doctor, the supervisor. How does that what is the what the person need to do to get started? Well, the supervisor should really look at the position itself and often there’s different philosophies on job descriptions. And our our philosophy is that the organization, the supervisor, should build the job around the position and not the person because people change andi really, to really get an understanding of what is needed to advance the organisation for words. So we have something called a proficiency mapping cool and are in our book where supervisors can really identify the called common confidences that the knowledge, skills, abilities and other characteristics needed to perform the job and then rape those competencies on different proficiency levels. We use the profession into level scale created by the national institute of health, and they’ve been doing this type of job description, worked for many, many years. And really getting understanding of what level that the position and the responsibilities to need to be at when we talked earlier a few minutes ago about outdated job descriptions common, another problem with outdated job description says they’re not often at the level that the position needs to be on a smaller non-profits with great to have people who could do lots of different responsibilities, but sometimes we have very high expectations that someone in entry level type job might be more responsibilities, say, manager or leading the organization through some sort of process when that’s not necessarily the right level for that job, you have these five proficiency levels fundamental, novice, intermediate advanced and an expert yeah, and we provide definitions and also example words and responsibilities at each level. I like to tell you i jump pretty quickly from fundamental toe expert on i think, if i’d done something once, that makes me an expert, so i don’t know if that fits within your construct, but like one time i’m not the expert the first time, but after i’ve done it one time i consider myself an expert. Andi that’s cost that’s cost me a lot of money in like home repairs and things, but i can’t get around it that’s, that’s but that’s, probably not talking, doesn’t fit within your your definitions well, generally the expert and advance our our our director level positions on responsibilities. So at the executive director, we would hope a most size organizations that the person the person holding that position would have advanced on expert level. But we understand that at the lower level positions the coordinators, entry level positions that they’re more at the the novice and the intermedia level. And yes, i mean, we’ve found that it’s helpful, starting with the supervisor to create these confidences and proficiency levels on dh, then down the line, wei have employees assess themselves and not do a real comparison over the competencies profession? Okay, yes, we’re going to get that so so after the supervisors part, then then what’s next in creating these optimal job descriptions, the next step is really getting documenting the employees responsibilities, and they don’t see what the supervisor has done. But if you do have someone in that particular position just making sure that all the responsibilities are are documented because the supervisor might not have a buy-in of everything that’s employees doing. But obviously, if it’s a new position or if the job description has never been done before, then they would have the supervisor job. Do the proficiency mopping. Ok, ok, but but the next step now is the is the is the employee e-giving their input into what their responsibilities are around the competencies and the proficiency levels. Yeah, the next up, it’s. Just the employees identifying their their responsibility. Okay, a faster proficiency levels. Quite yet just for the job description itself. It’s really making sure that all the responsibilities are identified and the supervisor is really the one that making sure that all the proficiency levels are identified. All right. Ok. Ok. And we mentioned these competencies. Can you give us some examples of competencies? Sure. Before you do that, i want to tell you about the process that we took to to identify ten core confidences for non-profit managers like holly. And i actually did some some national surveys and looked at literature around training needs of non-profit managers and a what their confidence cesaire needed. So this is really backed and research that we identify the ten course set. Of common confidence ease that non-profit managers possessed. They’re very general there everything from advocacy to communications, marketing, the financial management to fund of elopement way also have human resource is way also in the book go through the process of have helping organizations create their own sub confidence ease, because since the time core competencies are very general, we know that each organization is different in their culture and each position and as well as department, it’s organization, house, apartment, that they have their own core competencies that are important to that organization. So we’ve also provided some examples of different size organizations and the sub confidence juices issues that they have so well, for example, intercultural confidence. He is a very important sub competency for many organizations. Uh, two working, working well under pressure are working with certain population. Uh, so we we worked with various organizations and their different types of missions required different confidences. So we worked with homeless organization last semester, and they, you know, they require their staff tohave competencies and understanding about people who have housing, have challenges. Okay, let’s. See, we have just about a minute before before we take a break. And then we’ll continue. I should do this. We haven’t mentioned the board should be job descriptions for board positions. Definitely we have. We have a sample job description for board chair board treasurer for secretary on various board general boardmember on there’s a there’s. A lot of resource is not just in our book, but out there on the web as well for creating and managing board job description. That’s an important piece we’ve we’ve done this process with all volunteer run organizations where it’s just the board teo organizations that have paid staff, maybe they’re smaller, they have all the board do their job descriptions and then the one to two staff members that they have so it’s important that it’s not just a staff process that boardmember look at their job descriptions and revised them. Okay, let’s, go out for a break, and when we come back, heather, of course we’ll stay with us and we’ll keep talking about your job descriptions, and then we’ll move to mapping, mapping you, thies competencies and proficiency levels to the job description. Stay with us what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests. Check this out. From seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. I took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card. It was like it was phone this email thing. Is fired-up that’s? Why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life, it sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent lively conversation top trends and sound advice that’s tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m lawrence paige, no knee author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. I know i say it every time. Maybe maybe you listeners get here. Tired of hearing me say this, but i wish lawrence would pronounce his last name. Panjwani. He’ll be so much more beautiful than paige. No. Ni lawrence. I’ve said this a large his face. So no it’s, not like i’m going behind his back. And pandiani will be so beautiful. Lorenzo lorenzo panjwani okay, okay. Heather let’s move now. Tio mapping what is this? What is it? What is that? The mapping process that comes next? Well, this is the mapping process is really about revising the job description and making sure that it matches up with the responsibilities really, that are needed. We advise organizations to separate job responsibilities by the confidence categories, so we often see job descriptions that have the whole long list of job responsibilities, but were our processes to separate them by category? Cory so that it’s clear on the difference competencies that are needed with that particular job. We also have the manager identified proficiency levels based on the job responsibility, action, words. And so this is where? This is the revision process, the different levels and making sure that the wording really matches up with the proficiency level. So we might have a position that is hyre up that it needs to be or lower and can be a giant. Now you mentioned job responsibility, action words. What defined those for us? Well, the action words are provided in the proficiency mapping scale. So as we talked about before there’s five perfect into levels from fundamental awareness novice, intermediate to advance and experts and each of these i have a different level and we have action words that are associated with each level. So as i mentioned about the higher level positions we have the dance level there’s there’s, some facilitating, leading liaising managing and the expert level. We’re synthesizing. We’re training were troubleshooting. And so these hyre level action words are associated with hyre level job responsibilities. Okay, yeah. And that’s me. Well, i like to focus on the expert. You know, like i said, i would skip over novice, intermediate and advanced. I go right from fundamental to expert one one one one time. So i’ve gotten used to use those expert use those expert examples that’s where hyre just in my mind that’s where i belong let’s see? Okay, so in this job in the in this revision process now it’s, the employees and the supervisor working together, uh, well, family it’s the supervisor making sure that the job description is aligned because as much as we’d like to be an employee involved in the process, the next step in the talent of altum platform, which i don’t have time to talk about here is the individual professional development assessment and that’s where an employee actually haserot their confidence season proficiency level so it’s really helpful that they don’t see realign job description before that, that there going off of what they i think that they’re expertise is and their proficiency level is. And then that way you could do an accurate, um comparison. So what the job requires? Okay, well, you might be surprised we might have time to get to assessment a little bit. Way might be surprised. Um, now so the mapping there are there was, i think six steps on don’t really have you know, we don’t have time to go through all six of them, but help help us. Understand an overview of the process a little more detailed, and then we have so far. Yeah, so, as i mentioned in the first step of separating the job responsibilities by competency category, you’ll see then if there’s gaps and if you’ll have competency categories that you’re not covering it’s amazing how many organizations that we’ve worked with through this process, where they are missing confidence, ease for specific positions, like operations manager or or the executive director where often maybe, you know hr is a part of the operations manager job, but it’s not really accurately included are reflected in the job description or the job responsibilities or information technology is often a part of someone’s job, but not necessarily included, so it really helped helps organization to identify gaps with responsibility and say, well, we don’t have anything in this competency category. So let’s, let’s talk about what we need to include, i see, okay, it strikes me that this whole process to is going to i guess you said it, but just is going to make sure that you’re not bringing in let’s say, entry level people and having expectations that are unreasonable for them in terms. Of responsibilities and competencies exactly. We we also talk about degree levels as well and compensation. We worked with quite a few smaller non-profits that, like tio, take all the responsibilities that we provide his examples, and and use them to hyre their new entry level staff at the masters level were like, whoa, you know, let’s think about it’s entry level, do they really need a masters? Or do they even need a bath? Kottler for that regard, so this really helped to think through the position responsibilities that you need for the organization and ok, if i really need all those responsibilities and maybe it’s two positions, not one or i’m i think i’m being unrealistic with how many responsibilities that i’m requiring in this in this position. So having those those sometimes difficult conversations about what’s realistic for the organization since restoring tio, we’re talking about the possibility of entry level employees what’s your feeling on starting people at at low salaries? Well, i’m a little biased because i advocate for living wages because i teach graduate students in a lot of them are often on the job market, either during their degree program are afterwards and it’s really disappointing to see them have to take very low wage starting jobs also research so that it costs between seventy five, to one hundred for fifty percent of employees annual salary when they leave. And so what i’ve seen with my students and former employees is that bill, if they’re not getting adequate living wage compensation, then the leave within a few months and that actually costs the organization a lot of money organizations, i don’t think we often realize how much time and effort it takes latto post the new position to interview the people to do the training and that’s that’s money, and what will when in fact, we could pay a living wage and a good starting salary for entry level employees and have them stay longer even if they stay a year to that’s that’s better than the cost of done, leaving within a few months because they find a better opportunity that pays better. Excellent! We’ve got to leave it there. Unbelievable! You were right. We didn’t have a chance to talk about assessment. You are right, but you got it by the book it’s talent development platform she’s heather l carpenter, phd and you’ll find her on twitter at heather carpentier carpenter and take off that last are thank you very much. Other thank you. I’ve been a real pleasure next week. I just don’t know, because i’m recording this a couple of weeks ahead. It won’t suck, i promise you that if you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com where in the world else would you go? I told you i was coming back pursuant full service fund-raising you’ll raise laundry carts more money. I’m not talking about those one person metal things that you pushed down the street to go to the local laundromat or your stuff him in the in the back seat of your minivan, i’m talking those big plastic monsters on the loading docks at hotels and jim’s with sheets, and the towels are spilling over the sides, but instead of sheets and towels filled with money pursuing dot com, our creative producer is clear meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez susan chavez dot com on our music is by scott stein bourelly next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder pregnant mark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. I took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe. Add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 21, 2015: Online And At Risk & Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring

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Diane Oates: Online and at Risk?

Do you accept donations online? Have a “donate now” button? Are you using crowdfunding sites? You may need to register with lots of states, not just your own. Diane Oates is an assistant attorney general in the consumer protection division of the Florida AG’s office and a former National Association of State Charities Officials (NASCO) board member. (Originally aired July 11, 2014.)

 

Gene Takagi: Your Board’s Role in Executive Hiring

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Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO), walks us through this important board responsibility: hiring the executive officer.  (Originally aired July 11, 2014.)

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with dextrose gas trea, if i was forced to stomach the mere hint that you missed today’s show online and at risk, do you accept donations online? Do you have a donate now button? Are you using crowd funding sites? You may need to register with lots of states, not just your own. Diane oates is an assistant attorney general in the consumer protection division of the florida attorney general’s office and she’s, a former national association of state charities officials boardmember that’s nasco and that originally aired on july eleventh twenty fourteen also, your board’s role in executive hiring jean takagi, our monthly legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo walks us through this important board responsibility hyre ing the executive officer that’s also from the july eleventh show last year on tony’s take two, i’m not speaking to the new york times we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com here is online and at risk with diane oats with me she’s an assist, associate assistant attorney general in the ohio attorney generals charitable law section. She had been with the office for eight years. Managing a broad range of cases, including charitable gambling and charitable solicitations. She has handled multiple investigations and enforcement actions and is ohio’s point person for multi state enforcement actions. Diana it’s, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony, for having me on. Thank you very much for holding on. Sorry about that. No problem. I hope you enjoyed the music. Oh, i did, um, let’s. See, so these are laws that non-profits have to comply with. And a lot of these laws haven’t really kept up with the new solicitation methods that that charities have that’s correct. A lot of the laws are are older and do not address any sort of internet solicitations. Ah, there are such guy lines is the charleston principles which charities can follow in determining whether they need to register in a variety of states that they are soliciting online right? And we’ll get a chance to talk about the charleston principles. It’s, it’s, but there’s there’s not only online. But then there’s also the mobile giving world, of course, and that is growing by leaps and bounds. We actually just had a multi state they nasco it’s, the national state association charity officials put out some wise giving tips for charities on how to manage ah, and be wise on the internet when doing any sort of mobile giving or any sort of internet solicitation. So you definitely charity should be definitely protecting their brand and making sure they know who is soliciting for them on the internet. Um, and we’re going to get to that document in the wise giving tips the primary question, i think, is what what is a solicitation? And unfortunately that really varies from state to state, you’re correct. In a lot of states, the definitions might be a little bit different in ohio. Uh, it is when a person asked for anything of value, so it can’t be money can be time, and that donation would benefit a charitable organization or a charitable purpose and that’s that’s fairly consistent across the states. But but there are there are nuances when you start to drill down into well, okay, so sending us mail asking for a donation. That’s, that’s. A solicitation everywhere but as you start to go down, too, email oppcoll having a donate. Now, button on your site, driving people to the donate now button that’s, where it starts to get a little murky across the states. Definitely, and that’s, where the charleston principals come into play, and that’s, where the differences arise, because i believe only two states, tennessee and colorado, have adopted the charleston principles into law. Ah, many other states, including ohio, used them as guidelines for when to determine if a charity needs to register with our state if they have such a thing as it donate now, button or any sort of online solicitation. Okay, so we know that they’re adopted in only two states. Right now. Suppose you’re not in aa one of those two states. Can you just pick up the phone and talk to somebody and ask whether they use the charleston principles as guidelines? I would advise calling either the attorney general and your state or the secretary of state’s office, whichever office has the charity regulator located in it and see how they treat the charleston principles you could call up if you’re in ohio, call up our office, we would be able to tell you we used merely as guidelines to guide us as to whether charity needs to register. Obviously, if you are located in a certain state, if you’re located in ohio and you’re soliciting from there, you would have to register anyways, if you’re not let’s, say you’re located in west virginia, then we would go through the factors with you to see if you would need to register in ohio simply by having a donate. Now button on your website. A lot of times, though, i find clients make a call like that, but ultimately the final responsive to get is always we can’t tell you or we can’t advise you whether to register, okay, that and that might be the response in some states and ohio. I mean, we we would try to help you out as much as possible again, we can’t give legal advice, but i mean, i think we could steer you in the right direction isto whether you would need to register or not looking at whether you are, you know, mailing or emailing any solicitations to someone in ohio, if you are soliciting through an interactive website meaning you can collect donations straight through that website and whether you’re these are the two big factors whether you’re specifically targeting a person in our state or whether you’re receiving donations from a purse from people in our state on a repeated an ongoing basis or substantial basis, that so we would go through those factors and try to work with the charity to figure out whether you need to register here or not. We would definitely do that, ok, maybe ohio’s friendlier than a lot of states that that may very well be, but and i’m not saying it’s not worth the call it’s just that because it definitely is worth the call. As you said, either to the attorney, general’s office or the secretary of state, it is worth the call. This is that sometimes, you know, the ultimate answer should i register falls on usually it falls to the to the charity and, you know, and they’re sort of referred to their legal advisors, but it’s still worth the call because, um, you can you can get a fair amount of help. Definitely. Okay, um, we have just about a minute or so before break. Why don’t you explain what thes charleston principles are just so so everyone’s acquainted with them? Sure, they are guidelines which, uh, charity can follow, too. See if they should register in a state merely if they are soliciting on the internet. So what they need to look at if they are domiciled in a state, they will probably need to register there. And what i mean by domiciled is if they have their principal place a business in that state, if they’re not domiciled in the state, they need to look at there. Ah, non internet activities. And if those alone would cause them to register in that state, like if they’re mailing or calling people in that state, they would need to register if they are just asking for donations through their website. And if they’re either specifically targeting people in that state on their website for donations or they’re receiving contributions from that state on a repeated and ongoing basis for a substantial basis, then they would need to register in that state all about looking at the contacts in that state. All right, we’re going to take this break. When we come back, we’ll find out where we can see the charleston principles. They actually happen to be my subway read. I carry them with me all the time, and i read them every, you know, like, every six months or so, i just go back and read them on ben. Diane and i will we’ll keep talking about what’s a solicitation on, including talking about crowd funding sites to stay with us. Could you tell at the beginning of that interview that i was badly out of breath? That’s because i was late to the studio. This was the one hundred ninety ninth show. Andi was the first time i had been late. I had teo either called or texted sam. He had to play the music. I like one and a half times over by the time i got here i had run from the subway, which which is what held me up. So yes, if you if you thought i was out of breath, you were right. And then i i was looking forward to the two hundred show and hoping that i wouldn’t be late for that which which i was not let’s, do some live. Listen, love before we go to this break st louis, missouri clifton, new jersey i used to hang out at clifton a lot because my grandmother used to work at a big pharmaceutical company in clifton son of a gun. Which one was that? I don’t think it was mark. Well, there was a big pharmaceutical company i don’t think is very big and clifton anymore, but she used to work there and i would go meet her after and then my parents were dropped me off. We’d meet her there, and then she would take me to her house. That was in clifton, and we have another us, your masked we see you, we just don’t know where you are. So could be the nsa, fbi, cia, some other acronym. We’re on to you, and we are we are investigating. Also, let’s go to aa japan, konnichi wa, too, in chino, maya and mexico city, mexico, is with us. Also. Hola, que tal that’s really about the best i can recall from from high school, but that’s not so bad. I mean, i think, it’s, how you doing? Right. Holacracy tall tower, mexico city listeners and there’s more to come. Let’s, go to this break, and then we’ll go right back into this interview with diane oats. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent got lots of live listener love, let’s start domestic because we’ve got a lot of foreign listeners, of course, but let’s start domestic bethpage, new york. Many in bethpage don’t know who’s in bethpage do you know each other in bethpage live? Listen, her love to you there. Beverly, massachusetts, new bern, north carolina. I just spent some very nice time in north carolina. Thank you. New bern. Columbus, ohio. New york, new york. Live listener loved each of our live listeners. And, of course, there are more podcast pleasantries, of course, to those listening on the time shift where the iran a treadmill car, subway airplane, wherever you are, pleasantries to you. Nine thousand plus ofyou. Okay. Diana it’s. Um, let’s. See, where can we? What? We find these charleston principles to go and read them ourselves? If we would like to do so, i believe they’re located on the nasco net website. You can go to nasco net dot or ge. Okay. And that’s an a s c o net dot org’s the national association of state charities officials of which you are a boardmember. Yeah. And that’s, the organization that created the wise giving tips documents. So while we’re talking about finding documents, what what’s the full name of that document? Sure, it’s the internet and social media solicitations wise giving tips and the tips are for three separate audiences for charities, donors and fund-raising platforms, and it gives recommendations and tips on how to give and fund-raising wisely online. All right, the internet and social media solicitations wise giving tips and that’s also on the nasco website, right? Correct. Okay, crowd funding the crowd funding sites. Those raised a lot of questions. I get this a lot when i’m doing speaking, what if we are using crowd rise or deposited gift? What do who’s supposed to register them? Right? If you’re a charity again, i would direct the charity to the charleston principles. Usually on those websites, you’re not targeting a specific state unless maybe an event is taking place in a certain state or, you know, your charity is located in that state, so and i think it’s unclear also, whether the fund-raising platforms themselves need to register with states that’s still kind of an open question, okay? And also get questions related. When charity’s air working with community foundations and and the foundation is sort of the past through for the for the donations, the question then is who should be fun? Who should be registering and again looking at the charleston principles if it’s just a passer, entity that’s just doing some administrative work with processing donations, they might not need to register, so i would again and advise those community foundations toe look at the principles right for the community foundations and then the charity’s the same who exactly? Okay, but yeah, as we said, unfortunately, you don’t know for sure, except for two states, whether the state is is adhering to the principles. How come, how come, why is it that more states haven’t adopted them either? Officially, i guess through their legislatures or may be not as an act of the legislature, but just officially through the office that manages the charity registration process in each state, and that is a good question. I am not. I’m not really sure of the answer there, and yeah, i should probably talk to tennessee in colorado and see how they got that pushed through. I’m not sure why more states haven’t actually officially adopted them, okay, dahna because they are really cool, and they’re called charleston principles because i believe it was in meeting of nasco that was held in charleston, south carolina, where they were. These were adopted. I think they were. The discussion started there, yes, in charleston, south carolina, that’s. Why they’re called goodbye, not okay, but maybe not adopted there. Alright, yeah, attorney holding my feet to the fire e used to be an attorney, but so now that now i run roughshod over things. So thank you for being explicit. Okay, what about? We know there’s one state where you don’t have to register. Tell us about that. I believe that. Arizona? Yes. Yes, arizona. I believe they recently did away with their registration statue. I’m not too sure about that, but that is not a growing trend that icy. Definitely. I see that kind of an outlier. Okay, okay. So one point does not one data point does not make a trend. Things that i can’t even make a line from one point. Okay, but yes, arizona has explicitly said charities that are on ly soliciting in our state. I don’t need to register and yeah, they had a statutory system around registration and that was repealed or, you know, largely repealed. Yes. Um, now you made a point earlier that we wanted i want, like, just liketo amplify your home state where your incorporated that we should certainly be registered there. Yes, than any place where you have any principal place of business. Well, okay. So differentiating the inc you’re you’re only incorporated in one state, right? Because you’re not you’re not not-for-profits corporation, and that can only be one state. But you could have places of business. In lots of states, you can have the principal place of this that’s, probably in one state, but then you can have multiple locations everywhere and if you’re, you know, conducting solicitations from those locations and yes, definitely should be registering in the states. Now you’re you’re a, uh an important player in this because you’re a nasco boardmember but it’s so, um, divers, because we’re fifty difference sets of statutes and, um, timetables and fees and things do you do you get frustrated by this process? It it can get frustrating. And we definitely hear from our constituent charities that it is frustrating and that’s why we do have twelve states that are working on a single poor, cracked the website where charities khun go and register and they wouldn’t have to duplicate the process over and over again. Okay, this is the single portal initiative. Exactly. What more can you tell us about what state that is? Or i don’t mean state. You know what? What state it’s in, etcetera. What can you tell us? Uh, well, the single portal project is being headed by twelve pilot states. They include california, illinois, alaska, colorado, connecticut, hawaii, massachusetts, michigan. Mississippi, missouri, new hampshire and tennessee and basically it’s, a project that has three components one obviously is to create a unified elektronik registration system that will allow non-profit organizations and then they’re professional fundraisers to goto one site and fulfill their registration requirements for all states eventually at that site. Um, another component is also to be a public website where anyone can get this information that’s filed, academics could get it tio create analysis of emerging issues and trends. The public can look up this information to make more informed choices about their charitable giving and also non-profits can look up this information to compare thie effectiveness and cost of their professional fundraisers that they hyre and third, this would be a great tool for regulators. They could direct their limited resources away from registration and toward their core purpose of preventing fraud and misuse of charitable funds. Is this ah, envision to be a free site for charities? Um, that is a good question. I not sure about that. I know that this is kind of a three year time period where they’re going to try to get this off the ground rather soon and have it. Build up in phases over the next three years. I am not sure about the fees. I do not know that. Ok, ok. Um, timetable do what stage is it at now? It is at the beginning stages. Thie pilot states created a nonprofit organization in delaware. Teo, help develop and operate the website. And they just decided that the urban institute they chose them to design and build the single portal website. So it’s in the process of being built. And they are also establishing an advisory committee to help with the design and operation of the system. Okay, is it is it funded yet? Or were steven still too early for that it’s in the process of funding and the the non-profit, the multistate registration of filing portal the non-profit that was formed is reaching out to the non-profit community. Now, with grant proposals to help build up funds for this project. Okay, so that’s something to look forward to. Handup so is there not yet a timetable? Like when this should be live? Or maybe not all twelve states, but at least some initial minimum viable version? Um, i think i mean, the goal is to roll. Out the stages in the next three years. So hopefully in the next, maybe two years, the registration sites would be up and running. But please don’t call me that, okay? Okay, we won’t. Nobody listens to this show anyway, diane so you’re fine. Okay, well, we know that arizona standing alone. Not a trend, but are there any other trends that you do see coming up? The big trend icy is internet fund-raising on and that’s. Why nasco did put out this wise internet giving tips the intern fund-raising on the internet is growing. I believe in two thousand three it was about six point four percent of all charitable giving, but still it’s growing lead some bounds year by year. So we were really urge charities. Teo be aware of their presence on the internet and be aware of who’s raising money for them on the internet. A lot of thes fund-raising websites, they download the database of charities from guide star. And then anyone can just go on and start fund-raising for a charity, which is great. But you also want to make sure that no impostors are going out there and claiming that their associate it with your charity and trying to gain access to your donations, so check out the wise giving tips on also the charleston principles those will help you, andi will put, ah, put links to those on the takeaways from the show, which go up on the facebook pages afternoon diane, please leave us with the nasco conference that the charities are welcome to come, too. Yes, definitely. The two thousand fourteen nasco conference is on monday, october six, at the hyatt regency washington on capitol hill in washington, d c the theme this year is the evolving role of charitable regulation in the twenty first century. There are a lot of great panel scheduled i’ll just mention a couple first will be disaster relief and opportunities for collaboration between regulators and the not for profit sector. Um, our luncheon topic is our charities really charitable with our keynote speakers? Thomas kelly, who is a professor at u n c school of law, and john columbo, who’s, professor and interim dean at the university of illinois at chicago school of law and then one panel, i think, is going to be extremely interesting about ratings and evaluating charities. We have three. Panelists are taylor, who is president and ceo of the better business bureau. Wise getting alliance. Daniel bora chop, who is president of charity watch, and ken berger, who is the ceo of charity navigator. And then we also have panels on a messa you bit executive compensation are wise giving tips and then also a single portal update, so it should be a great conference, and you can get more information about the conference at nasco. Net dot org’s, thank you very much. Art taylor and ken berger have been guests on the show when we did the, uh, the altum the myth, the what was it, thea, the overhead myth letter that’s, right? We have the three signers of the overhead myth letter on and those they were two of them. All right, diane, thank you very much. Thank you, my pleasure, diana it’s, associate assistant attorney general in the ohio attorney general’s charitable law section. And i have an update tio what? Diane, i’m just talking about if you’re interested in this year’s nasco conference, that is october fifth of this year and ah, nasco net dot or ge is the place to get more information. I called my mother on the brake and asked her the company that my grandmother used to work for in clifton i was mistaking it was not a pharmaceutical company, but was i t and t international telephone and telegraph? Do they even exist anymore? It and t i don’t i don’t know if they do, but that was where there was a big plant that my grandmother worked at when i was growing up. Tony, take two and your boards role in executive hiring are coming up first. Pursuant, they do full service fund-raising they have web based tools for small and midsize non-profits do you need more prospects? I hear that a lot that that’s a problem. You need more prospects at higher levels and related to that. How do you know who’s capable of upgrade? This is what pursuance prospector platform does. It finds your upgrade ready donors. So you know who to pursue for larger. E-giving trent riker is the ceo at pursuing he has a background in non-profits for about twelve years, he leads this company. They are data driven, technology driven, and prospector platform is one of pursuing smart online tools. You’ll raise more money pursuant. Dot com, check them out new york times i’m not speaking to the new york times, and i implore them to stop stealing my guests. It happened latest incident. Latest incident was just last week. Remember, will mccaskill, the professor from oxford, oppcoll what happened? Okay, i do love scott stein, but not his time. Are we okay? Okay. I don’t mind. Scott stein a little. Well, who? Um it was a phantom sam throwing his arms up. He doesn’t know what happened. All right. Anyway, we’ll mccaskill so he’s on the show last friday. Of course, talking about his show doing good, his book doing good, better. And then on saturday, he’s in the new york times profiling his book doing good, better you believe that? And there was another time it was about two or three years ago and i’m sick of it. It’s happening too often do two points like that make a trend? Absolutely. The video where i explain this in more detail and you’ll see my ire. Is that tony martignetti dot com knock it off new york times do you know about fund-raising fundamentals? That is my monthly ten minute podcast devoted to fund-raising only for small and midsize shops, it’s fund-raising only not on ly for small and midsize shops, large shops could listen to, but i’m not thinking about them when i’m producing the show it’s a burst of fund-raising info i would say it’s only once. A month, i do it for the chronicle of philanthropy. So that’s published on their site and like non-profit radio, i picked the brains of experts and you listen on your own schedule. That one is not live. That is strictly a podcast. Recent ones preparing for your next recession with paul rosenberg from the bridge band group and boosting your plan e-giving with our own creative producer claire meyerhoff there’s info on fund-raising fundamentals at tony martignetti dot com and at the chronicle of philanthropy. Although gotomeeting durney dot com because i need the traffic and chronicle of philanthropy is doing just fine. That is tony’s take two for friday twenty first of august thirty third show of the year. Here is r wonderful. Ah, informative. Smart contributor on the law, jean takagi on your boards role in executive hiring jean takagi he’s with us. You know him? He’s, the managing editor, attorney at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the very popular non-profit law block dot com on twitter he’s at g tak g ta ke jin takagi welcome back. Hi, tony in congratulations on one ninety nine. I’m looking forward to two hundred next week. Cool. Yes. I’m glad you’re gonna be calling in for with us. Thank you very much. Thank you, it’s. Very exciting. Really? One hundred ninety nine shows ago. It’s one hundred ninety nine weeks it’s it’s. Remarkable. Um, we’re talking this week about the board’s role in hiring the executive and i’ve i understand that there are a lot of executives in transition. I think so, tony and it looks like some surveys have confirmed that it’s certainly been syrians with some of my clients and even on boards i’ve sat on over the last couple years. And there’s, a great group called compass point out in san francisco there nationally known as one of the most respected non-profit support centers and together with blue avocado, a non-profit online publication, they have a national survey on leadership succession in transition going on just right now. The last time they published the results with in two thousand eleven, and they found that sixty seven percent of current executive anticipated leaving within five years and ten percent. We’re currently actively looking to leave right then, and in two thousand eleven, the economic times weren’t so were so great. So sixty seven percent anticipating leaving within five years that’s a pretty staggering number. So now we’re already three years into that survey into that five year projection. Yeah, and sixty seven percent of two thirds. So if we had held this show off until two thousand sixteen, then it would have been moved. But there’s a new one coming out, you said, yeah, well, they’re they’re just starting the survey online now so you can participate on that. I don’t know the website, but if you, you know google non-profit transition survey executive transition survey, thank you, you’ll get that okay, and its compass point it’s a compass point and blew up a goddamn kottler who you’ve. You’ve mentioned blue vaccaro before i know. All right, so, yeah, two thirds of of ceos were expecting to be in transition within five years and where we’re only three years into it now. So the presumably these people are still looking. What? But boards don’t really spend enough time preparing for this kind of succession, do they? Well, you know, in many cases they don’t, and sometimes, you know, they might stay, they don’t get the chance because their executive director comes up to them and give us in two weeks notice, and now, you know, the board may be used to meeting every month or every other month or even every third month, and now all of a sudden they’ve gotta ramp up their efforts and find an executive to come in in two weeks. That’s going to be really tough to do on dh, you know, again, if we say at any given time, two thirds of the non-profit executives are looking to leave their job, you know, it’s very likely that within your board term, you know, you may have an executive transition to manage, and sometimes with very little notice. So that’s that’s? Why? I think succession planning is just really a core duty of non-profit board. Well, how do we let them get away with this two week notice? I mean, the ones i typically see are you know, the person will stay on until a successor is found, you that’s, not your experience. Well, you know, you’re really lucky if you if you do get that situation, i think most non-profit executives are hired on at will basis. Meaning that there’s, not a contract to stay there for a given number of years. Either party can conception, rate or terminate the employment relationship at any time. And as the average, you know, employee may give two weeks notice to go on to another job there. Many executives who feel the same way that they, you know, they may feel like they own allegiance to an organization. But another opportunity comes up and it’s not going to be held for them forever. And they may want to move on. Um, and they may feel like what they gave the board really advanced notice that they might be looking for something that they might get terminated. So they may keep that information from the board until the last two weeks. Well, because all right, so that i am way in the dark because i would. I just presumed that executive directors, ceos even if small and midsize shops were not at will. But they were but that they were contract. I mean, when i was a lonely back in my days of wage slavery, director of planned e-giving i was in at will employees, which means you can end it. Like you said, you could end at any time and so can they like, if they don’t like the color of your tie one day they can fire you, you’re at will. But but that that’s typical for for ceos and and executive directors. Yeah, i think for smaller non-profits it’s very, very common. Oh, i just always assumed that these were contract positions with termination clause is and no. Okay, but, i mean, you know, it’s, your practice, i’m not i’m not disagreeing with you, i’m just saying i’m okay, i’m learning something s so that’s that’s incredibly risky. So it is. It just put you in that position of saying, well, i need to replace somebody immediately and i don’t you know, as a board we don’t meet very often can we even convene within the two weeks to find the process going? It’s going to be so much better if he had a plan of what happened in case you know, our executive every doesn’t give two weeks notice, and even if the executive says, you know, in your scenario, maybe a longer notice, maybe, you know, in six months, if they do have a contract at the end of my contract, i don’t plan to renew, you know, i think we should go through the process of looking for for a successor and having a plan or thinking about that plan that is just coming up with something on the fly is going to probably result in a much better choice for selection of a leader in the future and that’s going to be critical and how well the organisation operates and how the beneficiaries of your organization are going to do are they going to get the benefits of a strong organization or are thinking is suffer because the organization can’t do it? You can’t advance mission as well. It should. Yeah, i mean, you’re you’re calling it on the fly. I would say two weeks notice for an executive director. Departing is is a crisis even four weeks notice? Yeah, in many cases you’re you’re absolutely right. Okay, i’m right about something. Thank you. You’ve got something right today. All right. So what do we what do we do, teo, to plan for that? Just well, you know, i think the first thing the board has to do is start toe think about the contingencies. So what do we do and then actually want one thought that comes to mind that, uh, that you raised tony is should we get our executive director on an employment contract? If they are and that will employee do we want to lock it in? And they’re sort of pros and cons with that? If you’ve got, like, not the best executive director in the world, terminating somebody on a contract becomes much, much more difficult than if they were at will employees. So, you know, you kind of have to weigh the pros and cons, but, you know, revisiting your current executives director and the employment relationship is maybe step one. Oh, and suddenly he was thinking about, well, do you have a really strong job description that really reflects with the board wants of the executive director and on the basis on which the board is reviewing the executives performance on dh? Maybe the sort of initial question to ask in that area? Is do you actually review the executive director and that the board you absolutely should? You and i have talked about that the board’s is not part of their fiduciary duty to evaluate the performance of the the ceo? Yeah, i think so. I think it’s a core part of meeting their fiduciary duties that really, you know, as a board, if you meet once a month or once every couple of months or whatever what’s more important, you know, then really selecting the individual who’s going to lead the organization in advancing its mission and its values and implementing your plans and policies and making sure the organization complies with the law. Taking your leader is probably the most important task that the board has, because the board is delegating management to the to that leader. Yeah, absolutely. And i think it’s often forgot naralo overlooked that individual board members inherently have no power and no authority to do anything think so, it’s only as a group. When they meet collectively, can they take aboard action? So for individuals to exercise, you know, powers on behalf of the organization that has to be delegated to them and typically the person responsible for everything is that ceo or the executive director. We’re gonna go out for a break, gene. And when we come back, you now keep talking about the process. The what goes into this process, including the job offer. So everybody stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email. Tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact, i guess, directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz gotta send live listener love, let’s. Start in japan with tokyo kiss are a zoo and nagoya. Konnichiwa, seoul, south korea, seoul. Some someone south korea, always checking in love that on your haserot. Moscow, russia, mexico city, mexico, ireland. We can’t see your city ireland’s being masked for some reason, but we know you’re there. Welcome, welcome, ireland, and also taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, nobody from china, that’s, funny, nobody from china today, coming back to the u s, we got cummings, georgia, in ashburn, virginia. Live listener love to you in georgia and virginia. Okay, gene. So now we’ve let’s say, we’ve learned that our exec is departing and let’s not make it a crisis situation, though let’s say this person is generous enough to give six months notice. So, you know, let’s, not make it a crisis. Where what’s our what’s, our what’s, our first step as the board. Terrific. And i’ll just add, even if you don’t, if you know your executive is not leaving any time soon and i think you should go ahead and start this process anyway. Oh, yeah, clearly we should be. We should have a succession plan in place. Yes, we’ve talked right? Okay, yeah. So i think the first thing to do is get a committee together so it might include boardmember some outside experts outside with the board. If you don’t have that internal expertise and just getting different perspectives out there, some of your other stakeholders might be really important in what, you know what you want to look for in an executive in the future. So get that committee together first, get the buy-in of the current executive director. So unless it’s going to be, you know, a succession plan for a termination? Yeah, we’re really unhappy with executive director, right? Let’s not get into that. Yeah, let’s get their buy-in and have them help in the process. Especially with your scenario where they’re giving a six months notice and everything is amicable. Let’s, you know, see? Shoot, who knows better about the organization than the executive director that’s in place right now. So i’m getting there buy-in and help contribution. I think it is pivotal. Does this committee have to be comprised of hr experts? Why? I think having a least one or two hr experts is going to be really helpful. But i i think it’s more than that. It’s, you need program people who understand what the executive you know roll is no respect to advancing the program. You need the fund-raising people to know well, what is the going to do with respect to fund-raising perhaps the seeds, the lead fundraiser and some small organizations as well. So we need thio gather a bunch of different people with different perspectives and expertise to figure this out. And i think that’s a very good point to include a t least a programme expert. Now, could this committee include employees, or does it have to be sure you can absolutely on dh? You know, you might even have have have different subcommittees in there. So eventually this is going to go up to the board. But as the committee’s doing the legwork for determining what? You need an executive director and putting together a job description, and and, you know, perhaps, but the performance evaluation is going to be based on for the future executive director all those things can get, you know, we’d be aided by the contribution from several areas. Okay, okay, what are your thoughts on hiring a recruiter vs vs? Not well, i you know, i think it depends upon what the organization shins resource is our and the organization should understand the marketplace it’s in a swell hiring two great executive director is the competitive thing. So, you know, if you’ve got a lot of resources and you’re able to you want to allocate an appropriate amount of resource is tio what i think again is making one of your most important decisions of the board? I don’t think you want to do this on the cheap at all. I’m just the same way i didn’t want you to do it on the fly or or or in a rushed matter-ness think you want to invest in this, and if you don’t have great expertise inside about on things about, like, doing job interviews and doing background checks on the sex thing, you know how to differentiate between one candidate and another when they all look good on paper and when they’re maybe professional interviewees, but they’re not there, maybe not great leaders. How do you figure all those things that if you don’t know, that dahna an executive search firm could be a great help, and it can just open up the marketplace of potential candidates as well, especially if they, you know, decide to do a regional or even a national search. It really can ramp up who who you’re going to see in front of you and the quality of the candidates that the selection comedian the board eventually will have to choose from. Okay, does the committee now come up with a couple of candidates to bring to the board, or is it better for the committee to choose one and bring that person to the board? How does this work? You know, i think the committee should be tasked with bringing several candidates up on sometimes it may be a multi tiered process so they might go through two rounds of screening, for example, and and at least let the board see who’s made the first cut. And then and then, you know, present to the board, the final, perhaps two or three candidates. If, if you’ve got, you know, the ones that are very close and in quality in terms of what the board want in an executive director, i think that’s pivotal. I wanted to add one. Nothing, though. I’ve seen this done before, tony and i don’t really like it and that’s when. If a search committee or research consultant comes up and says, you know, to the board, tell me what you want in the good executive director everybody, you know, spend five minutes, write it down and send it to me or take it home and email it to me oh, and tell me what you want and then the search consultant collates the the the answers and then that’s, you know, the decision about that’s what’s going to be the qualities you’re going to look for. I think this needs a lot of discussion and deliberation and the value of that, you know, that that thought process and that really difficult thinking and getting all those generative questions out there is going to produce a much better product in terms of what you’re looking for and who you can get and how you’re going to do it. Yeah, you you send this tio use email and, you know, it’s going to get the typical attention that an e mail gets, like a minute or something. You know, it’s it’s going to get short shrift. And your point is that this is critical. It’s it’s, the leader of your organization, you want do you want the contributions of the committee to be done in, like a minute off the top of their head just so they can get the email out of their inbox? Yeah, definitely. We could talk about board meetings and another show, but put this at the front of the meeting and spend, you know, seventy five percent of your time talking about this. This is really, really important, okay, you have some thoughts about compensation, and we just have a couple minutes left. So let’s let’s say we’ve the board has well, i can’t jump there yet. Who should make the final call among these candidates? Is it the board? Yeah, i think it should be the board that makes the final approval, but they they’re going to put a lot of weight based on what? The executive of the search committee, you know, tell them who they’re you know, the recommendation is okay, and i think that toe add one more thing to it is make sure the organization looks good to clean up your paperwork and your programming and even your facilities. Just make sure you’re going to be attractive to the candidate as well. Because if you want to attract the best, you better be looking your best as well. Okay, okay. And the with respect to compensation now, we’ve talked about this before. What? What’s excessive. And there should be calms and things like that, right? So it’s really important to make sure that the board or unauthorized board committee one that composed just board members, approved the compensation before it’s offered to the candidate. Even if you don’t know that they’re going accepted or not, once he offers out there that compensation package, total compensation should have been approved by the board. And you want to do it with using the rebuttable presumption of reasonable procedures unless you know its far below market value. Okay, if you get payed accessibly or if you pay somebody excessively, that could be penalty taxes for everybody. Including the board. Should be careful of that. We have talked about that rebuttable presumption before. Yeah. All right, then. We have to leave that there. I look forward to talking to you next week on the two hundredth great. Congratulations again. And i look forward to it as well. Thank you, gene. Gene takagi, managing attorney of neo. The non-profit and exempt organizations law group, his blog’s non-profit law block dot com and on twitter he is at g tak. Some updates, of course, too live listener love because you were listening to live listener love from july eleventh, twenty fourteen. So that’s a that’s. A little bit at a date, more people have joined us, including wilmington, north carolina, media, pennsylvania. Pottstown, pennsylvania, and spring lake, new jersey. I spent a lot of time very close to spring lake in belmar because my other grandmother, not the grandmother who worked at i t that was my mom’s mom. But my dad’s mom and dad had a home in belmar and i used to go there weeks on end. My parents were thrilled to get rid of me when i was four, five, six, seven, eight years old. Oh, my gosh. Lots of weekends in belmar. And i know that spring lake is a very, very pretty town. Also, uh, what’s the big hotel there where i’ve been for dinner, the breakers. Is that the breakers? That beautiful hotel? Ah, not literally on the water, but pretty darn close right across that little little just across ocean have love spring lake and interesting springlake media and pottstown you’re listening from itunes cool live listen love to each of you also joining us sao paulo, brazil, beijing, china ni hao and belong j portugal live listeners love to each of you now you might have noticed that on that july eleven twenty fourteen show, there was no podcast pleasantries and no affiliate affections. You see how this show is growing and expanding and innovating constantly on one hundred ninety ninth show. The next week was going to be the two hundredth. We don’t have podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections. Now we do so pleasantries out to all our ten thousand plus podcast listeners wherever, whatever you’re doing, affiliate affections love you too all our affiliate am and fm stations i want to waken affiliate affections. I’m just realizing it’s a f f f f f after two dafs squared affiliate affections! I don’t know, maybe that’s too that’s hokey. Besides, i like thea. I like the the ah what is it when all the words start with the same whatever that that i love it’s an alliteration. Thank you saying so. I liked the alliteration, so we’re sticking with affiliate affections. No. After two next week, i told you it was coming. Incentive pay for your fundraisers to fund-raising administrators from the university of pittsburgh. Very senior people share their innovative pay plan for their frontline fundraisers. If you missed any part of today’s show finding on tony martignetti dot com, where in the world else would you go? I i believe that i had said that i was going to stop singing weeks ago, but i must have been misinformed. It’s my show and do whatever i want. And if you don’t want to singing host, get your own show, i beseech you, go ahead pursuant full service fund-raising you’ll raise train car loads more money, and i’m not talking about those two person little flat beds that the people pump up and down like a seesaw to move along the tracks like, you know, oh brother, where art thou? I’m talking cattle cars, container cars, tank cars filled with money pursuant dot com. We’re going to go out with a live version of cheap red wine today. This is the live version from the two hundredth show, which was the week after the show that we just turned the two segments from scott stein came in the studio, brought his elektronik eighty eight keyboard, and he played cheap red wine, our theme music. And since it’s snuck in earlier today, phantom lee, we’re going to go out with it. Here’s. The live version from the two hundred show our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer show social media’s by susan chavez. Susan chavez. Dot com on our music is by scots. Dine with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great wait can agree on nothing. Wait till our ups from my down wait disappointed in each other. Now tell me, baby, and this love that we found. You know, you used to find me charming, but i can figure out how. And you said, you thought those handsome. But it doesn’t matter now. So came falling for my punch. On just long in time, we’ll allow, because i’m you got her empty promises. A bottle of cheap red wine. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. It took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe. Add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five.

Nonprofit Radio, April 13, 2012: Smart Interviewing Makes Great Hiring & Relationship Mapping

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Sherryl Nufer

Sherryl Nufer: Smart Interviewing Makes Great Hiring

Sherryl Nufer, a founding partner in Pareto Consulting, explains why Behavioral Interviewing is superior to traditional methods and how any size nonprofit can get better hires through more sophisticated interviewing, whether you hire once a year or many times a month.

 
 

Maria Semple

Maria Semple: Relationship Mapping

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, is our regular prospect research contributor. This month Maria helps you mine your data with tools that reveal relationships you didn’t know existed among your donors. It’s much more than just a list of friends in a pull down menu. As always, she shares valuable resources, many of them free.

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Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XXWN8MZ


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Here is the link to the show recording: 087: Smart Interviewing Makes Great Hiring and Relationship Mapping.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and it’s friday, april thirteenth, twenty twelve i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be devastated if i learned that you had missed campaign feasibility agility, why is a feasibility study important before you embark on a fundraising campaign? What do you learn from a well crafted study who should be interviewed and who should do the interviewing? Eugenia cologne of cologne and associates sorted that out for you, and i had creating a culture of philanthropy. Laura goodwin, vice president of the osborn group, had ideas about focusing on your donor’s, collaborating programming, board expectations and responsibilities and leadership all to help you increase your fund-raising revenue this week. Smart interviewing makes great hiring cheryl nufer, a founding partner in peredo consulting, explains why behavioral interviewing is superior to traditional methods and how any size non-profit khun get better hires through more sophisticated interviewing? This applies whether you’re hiring once a year or several times a month relationship mapping maria simple, the prospect finder is our regular prospect research contributor this month maria helps you mine your data with tools that reveal relationships you didn’t know existed among your donors, it’s, much more than just a list of friends in the pull down menu. As always, maria’s got valuable, resource is, and a lot of them are free between the guests. Tony’s take to my block this week, i have a favor to ask, and i’ll ask you when the time comes around, which is about thirty two minutes into the hour. Use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation through twitter. Welcome to the people from small non-profit chat who i was just with on twitter. I hope some of you were joining us. Use that hashtag non-profit radio right now. We take a break when we returned. It’s smart interviewing makes great hiring, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz lorts durney are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com hello and welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. My guest now is cheryl nufer cheryl is a founding partner of peredo consulting, providing small to medium sized organizations with business tools that are often available only the large for-profit corporations sounds like she’s sort of stole the tagline for this show. She’s, a strategy and organization development consultant with more than thirty years of experience, and i’m pleased that her expertise brings her on cheryl nufer welcome to be here, it’s a pleasure to have you thanks what’s wrong with traditional interviewing. Cheryl well, we have a top ten list of what goes wrong in interviews, but really, they’re too big and the first one is that it’s? Hard to believe, but a lot of interviewers don’t really know what they’re looking for in a candidate, and so they just figured that the more people they interview, the better their odds it’s kind of like vegas, and they don’t know when they see it. The second big problem is that they ask risky question when i say questions, yeah, what is that? Yeah, i don’t mean just the way i talk typically think about what we call illegal questions is that a problem, but risky questions, questions that, uh, a candidate can prep for that, they can anticipate that they can prepare a candid answer for which made or may not be the truth. So the data on which to base your hiring decision is a lot. So those sounds like questions like what’s your strengths and your strengths and weaknesses, like those types of questions are risky that’s exactly right? Because people can anticipate them. Yeah, the common ones, we here are what you just said there, but it’s also questions like, what would you do in a situation? For example, if you were faced with an angry donorsearch or this job is going to require a lot of long hours? Will that be a problem for you? Or my favorite is tell me about yourself. Why should i? And these are risky because they’re predictable is mentioned. Secondly, they solicit the candidates opinions and, you know, i don’t want to sound harsh, but the candidate doesn’t know a lot about what’s required for success in the job interviewer does interviewers opinion it’s most important and then last so you can say that. Not sound harsh if i say it, it sounds harsh coming from you. It just sounds very matter of fact unprofessional. And final thing is that they also asked the candidate to hypothesize, so if you ask, you know, what would you do in a particular situation? They can tell you just about anything now? Is that what they would do if they were faced with that situation, your organization, they may or may not. So again, all of these risky it’s interesting that you call very typical questions risky, but i understand. I understand why. Yeah, well, it’s all about making it’s all about collecting data to make a decision to predict how someone is going to perform in your organization and the risky or your database to risk your your hyre decisions. All right, that’s. So that’s the interviewing that we’re all most familiar with, we either do it or we’ve been through it, or or both. Why don’t you just start of acquaintance with behavioral interviewing? Okay, well, behavioral interviewing is not just about the interview. It’s really a business process, just like your financial processes review hr processes and it has a set of steps and so it starts off with identifying and defining the skills for success, and then you create a line of questioning that’s based on those skills, you put that in an interview guide, follow the guide after you interview you right candidate based on the data you collected and then all of the interviewers get together and share their examples, make a hyre or no hyre decision. So, first of all, it’s a repeatable process um, in terms of knowing what you’re looking for, i think that’s a really big difference, what we talk about is looking for a balance skills well, and what we’re looking for doesn’t that come from the job description? Well, not necessarily that’s a good question, because a lot of organizations job description are nothing more than a list of responsibilities that they will fulfill once they’re hired, but what i’m talking about is a list of skills that are required to be successful in executing those responsibilities. And so we look at those in terms of technical skills, which are really job specific and things maybe, like marketing most iranians fund-raising sales and then another set of skills that we call professional skills you might. Also call the sauce skills and these cross jobs and these air things, like planning and team work and initiatives and judgment, integrity. Those kinds of things way have a saying that a lot of organizations hyre on technical gilles. When they have to fire someone. Cheryl, we have to take a break. When we come back. We’ll continue this and start exploring why behavioral interviewing is better than what we’re all accustomed to. Please hope everybody stays with us. We’re talking smart interviewing makes great hiring e-giving connecting dick tooting, getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network to get anything. E-giving good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that calm mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr robert panna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Welcome back with my guests, cheryl nufer of peredo consulting, you’ll find peredo consulting at parade o p r e t o hyphen h y p h e n but don’t spell hyphen just put a hyphen in consulting peredo hyphen consulting dot com. Cheryl, why is this method behavioral interviewing superior to what we’re all accustomed to? Well, that has to do a lot with the questions that you ask, i said before the other questions or risky behavioral questions are based on principle that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, so if we can figure out in an interview how a person behaves in the recent past in situations that are similar to what they face in our job, then we have a pretty good idea how well behaved if we hire them. So this is the opposite of stock investing investment advisors who will say past results or no indication of future returns, right? But past behaviour is predictor of future behavior. Yeah, because we are creatures of habit. So there’s a great formula for creating a behavioral question that your listeners could start using right away. So what you do is you start with phrase something like give me an example of the time in the past, or maybe describe the past situation, and then what you do is you go back to those skillsets i was talking about a minute ago there that are important for success, and you plug in burbage that describes the skills so let’s say we were talking about initiative, then we’d say something like, give me an example of the time in the past when you went above and beyond job requirement for a time in the past when you anticipated a potential problem and you made contingency plans. So what you do is always in behavioral interview issues asked what people did in the past versus what they would do in the future, which is a hypothetical. So this sounds harder to fake, but i have to tell the whole story. Now you have to tell a whole story, and it is very difficult to fake because they’re hard to anticipate, and a good interviewer should be asking specific follow-up questions? I mean it’s, easy to just ask the behavioral questions, but it’s an interview are you start listening for what you want you want a real situation. You want to understand what they said or did in that situation and you want to know what happened, what kind of results this is scaring the heck out of me if i’m in it, i’m nervous that’s a good thing i have my own business, so i’ve never run into this well. So what if i don’t have a story about initiative? Alright, i’m under pressure. I can’t i can’t think of one well, that’s a common thing and our bullets, the interviewer is to bring out the best in the candidate, so what we can do is that’s good that’s that’s reassuring it too, because when you’re comfortable, you’re going to share more information with me, so i would i want you with questions such as you know what about in this specific job? Or i may rephrase the question where someone doesn’t have work experience. I might ask them to think about a project that they did in college or maybe a summer job so anything that i can do or i can say, you know, we can come back to that question and give you a few minutes to think about it if you’d like, there are a lot of ways to handle that it’s not uncommon for someone to freeze up. Okay, i pulled listeners before the show. One of the questions i asked is, do you feel you’re hiring? Process is efficient and you’re hiring the right candidate, and about seventy one percent said yes and about twenty nine percent i said no, so we want to help the other third, but that two thirds may not be may not be as efficient and hiring savvy as as they think. That’s, right, that’s recorders almost sorry even if they have a good track record of getting good can bring along good talent beauty of behavioral approach is that up? You don’t necessarily have to interview a lot of candidates and pick the best of the lot if you know what you’re looking for and you have a good screening process and you interview the candidates and their experiences match the criteria for success. Technically, you could hire the first candidate you interview, which reduces your cycle time, and it also keeps you from potentially losing a good candidate because you’re hiring cycle is too long. Have you seen organizations do that either? For-profit or non-profit don’t they don’t they typically say, well, she was very good, but maybe we’ll find somebody better. Absolutely, and that positing are not confident in their process. There’s something in there god says, you know, i’m not confident in the data, my process for evaluating it and that’s where a good process really builds confidence to make that decision when you see that good. Okay on, yeah, these air interesting. Ondas you said very these type of questions very hard to anticipate that they’re going to come. How does the interviewer prepare? You talked down a little bit, like going a little more detail on and then shortly we’ll get to how many interviewers there should be, but but but how do we prepare as an interviewer? Oh, as an interviewer? Well, basically, you identify the skills that are required for success in the john. Based on those skills, you develop a line of behavioral questions using the formula that i shared with you. Typically you will type those up in an interview guide or just lift if you have multiple interviewer shall divide that list up among all of your interviewers so that there are no gaps in your questioning and there’s no redundant safe so everyone has their game plan. They interview based on that. So that’s, the primary way that you would prepare a search would review the resume common things, write what you want you want it certainly want to be prepared. So if it is a a siri’s of interviews interviewers, they don’t ask the same questions then no, they don’t that’s really a waste of time, and you have so little time in an interview. You want to make sure to use it wisely. Now they ain’t me ask multiple questions about a specific skill, but they typically don’t ask the same questions because if they asked the same question, the candidate will probably give the same example and that’s kind of silly. You still tell the same story twice, exactly, and you would expect that so it’s not the interview each fall. That’s the interviewers fault for not being prepared. On the other hand, what if all the interviewees stories, anecdotes come from just one of their jobs or something? Or just too? And they’ve got, you know, thirty years of experience or something like that? Well, that would absolutely be a red flag. Either they’re bred through depth of experience is not what it may appear on their resume or perhaps there’s something that they just don’t want to share with you so that’s something that you may, if you find when you bring your interviewers together, that the same stories were told to everybody, then you could either make a no hyre decision or you could make a decision have follow-up phone interview where you would try to clean examples from some of their other work experience. Okay, so you’d like to follow up interview to be by phone, but the first one to be in person is that right? What i’m talking about here is typically you would do a phone screen, ok stations, and then bring the candidate in for face-to-face what i was saying is, if you feel you can’t make ah hyre no hyre decision, you know, you always have the option to follow-up again by phone and asked more questions, okay, okay, um and so since we’re talking sort of around this, what is your advice around having just one interviewer or having a siri’s of interviewers, um, or even having a panel? Okay, well, we would always recommend more than one interviewer, if at all possible and you can is that just to eliminate bias of one person, it could eliminate bias. It can get you more data, because if you have two interviews that you have more data on which to base a decision, listen, there are two ways of doing what we call a serial interview, which is cheryl interviews candidate hands candidate off to tony who interviews to hands it off to joe, and then when you separately and then after all the interviews, you come back together and share your example and make a decision. There’s also the panel interview where you have multiple people interviewing the candidate at one time, and you, khun, do multiple panels panels are great ways to involve more people from your organization and getting exposure to candidate. You just don’t want the panels to get too big. You know what is to become a panel? Interviews khun b scary. I’ve heard stories from people who were interviewed by five people or so that’s pretty intimidating it’s very intimidating. I’ve been interviewed by him and he had six at one time. I know. A lot about interviewing and that that was a nerve ng me, what we recommend is either two or three. When it gets above three, it can not only be intimidating, but it’s difficult for the interviewers to kind of it should be choreographed. So you should have someone out of the panel who is kind of the host and is kind of orchestrating this interview. There’s not an r k. Everyone firing questions at the candidate, and it really doesn’t set the candidate up. Cheryl nufer is a founding partner of peredo consulting. You’ll find them on the web, but peredo pr e teo hyphen consulting dot com we’re talking about smart interviewing, making great hiring, cheryl, is there an advantage of serial interviewing over the panel or the other way around? Well, there is an advantage in the advantage is that when you’re in a panel, if you conduct one panel interviews, all three of you are hearing the same stories, the same situation in a serial interview. It’s more likely, you will hear different stories, or sometimes the same story told different ways. And so, you know, that sounds bad, but it can be bad if in fact, there are vast differences in the story, like your fourth step in the supposed be the results. So if the results who are different in the same story across to different interviews that’s a bad sign that red flag may be, the results keep getting better and better. Three interview that’s a great way to start catching a candidate who may be fabricating for people actually do that. Is that true? Absolutely, they do. I’ve heard rumors to that effect, but i always hoped it wasn’t so another question i asked listeners before the show is our hires in your office typically interviewed by more than one person and seventy one percent said yes, fourteen percent said no, so most people are doing the multiple interviewing and then fourteen percent said depends on the job. Um all right, is there a job where the solo interview makes sense or no, you really just don’t like that at all. There’s a situation, i guess i mean when just one interviewer makes sense. Here’s what i would say in some more straightforward job, maybe some entry level jobs it could perhaps the appropriate that i say it’s no more appropriate in bigger organizations, bigger cos you have a really small organisation. You have to hire the right people. You i have no where to hide them. You have no one to cover for them. Hyre abad a bad fit so i think it’s always good in a small organization, if possible, to have a second set of eyes and get that second set doesn’t have to be somebody that the person is going to report to, right? It could be a colleague. I mean, taking officer just four or five people, they’re going to be hiring off fifth or sixth, like a cz you’re saying that’s a big percentage of the staff, it doesn’t have to be somebody that that person would report to write absolutely not. And in a small organization of horrified people, i mean everyone’s wearing multiple hats, they really have to depend on each other. So everyone has a big stake in making sure the best person has brought onboard so it could be a appear. It could be someone that maybe is performed well in a similar job in the past. You’re absolutely right. It could be just as long as they’re good. Interviewer god, they would be appropriate. How do we gauge technical expertise? We’ve been talking about behavior? Well, you can use behavioral questions to get that technical competencies, but technical skills are a little bit easier. For example, if you were hiring someone for fund-raising you can actually have them bring in and explain fund-raising approaches that they’ve used in the past, and i would ask a lot of follow-up questions to make sure that what they brought us, something they actually did. There are tests that you can use for certain technical skills. You can also do simulations, so for example, if you were hiring someone for a sales position, are fund-raising position you could actually have them come in and do a presentation to a team of you, and so you were potential donors and see how they would handle it. So there are a lot of ways to get technical. We have just about a minute left, cheryl, what potential problems should people look out for if they’re goingto implement behavioral interviewing? I think the biggest problem is asking a behavioral question and assuming you’re going to get a behavioral answer, so you have to be able to sort out hypothetical responses through a good line of follow-up questioning about the situation there, action in the results in-kind situation. Obstacle, action and results. Shell nufer is a founding partner of peredo consulting, which provides small to medium sized organizations with business tools that are often available only the large, for-profit corporations. Cheryl, thank you very much for being a guest has been a pleasure. Thank you so much, and i hope that this information will help you. I think it will help listeners. Thank you very much. A pleasure to have you thank you. Right now. We take a break, and when we return tony’s, take two. I have a favor to ask, stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s, time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is i have a favor to ask. I asked block followers to give the show a one to five star rating on itunes, just like i asked our podcast listeners to do in the past two weeks, and podcast listeners stepped up thank you very much for doing that. I’m not going to prevail on you for third week, i won’t ask you to take that easy step by going to the very simple to remember non-profit radio dot net podcast listeners i’m not asking you to do that to go to non-profit radio dot net and then to click on view in itunes and then on the next page to scroll down to the bottom and click the one to five stars not asking that this week, i asked blogged followers to do that, so the only group remaining is live listeners live listeners open a window, go to non-profit radio dot net, click overviewing itunes and then on the next page, scroll down to the bottom. You can do it five listeners, you’re the third segment that i’m prevailing on non-profit radio has a linked in group. You will find us on linkedin. Please join the group is going to be a place for us. Teo. Host discussion whether it’s follow-up to a show or discussion about new topics that you might like to hear on the show. So please check us out on linked in. And that is tony’s. Take two for friday, april thirteenth, the fifteenth show of twenty twelve. Maria simple the prospect. Find her. Are you there? I am here. I know you are maria simple. You’ll find her on the prospect finder. Dot com she’s experienced trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now. Welcome back, maria. Thanks for having me again, tony. Always a pleasure. We’re talking about relationship mapping and minding your own data. What is relationship mapping? Well, in a nutshell, relationship mapping is trying to map out relationships to prospects in your own database, but also to find new unknown connections. Either those connections that may exist within your database that you didn’t realize existed relationships between people or it could be relationships outside of the organization. So, um let me give you an example. We’ve talked in the past about reactive prospect research and proactive prospect research, so reactive is when you have a known name of an individual or perhaps an organization, an entity, and you need to know more about them. So you have a note you have you’re starting from a known point, and you’re just trying to find more information about that that’s reactive research proactiv might be if you are sitting with other members of your staff or perhaps members of your develop your development committee and, um, discussions starts coming around about cos center in the region or some new names that have popped up new people in the community, and you’re trying to figure out how are those people connected to others in the community? How well connected they may be, but also what might be the pathway to get us to that person or to get us to that organization? So here you’re you’re starting off with a lot less information, and you’re going to go out and proactively speak more information about about that. So, uh, let’s say you have ah, donors and your database, and you’d like to know a bit more about who else they may be connected to. There are some tools out there that we’re going to get into in a moment that will be able teo, help paint that picture for you, so speak so there are a lot of very useful tools that are available to us both free and sea bass, right? I always appreciate that you come with lots of free resource is i try to come with this much free is possible, but i do realize that some people do have some budgets or maybe already tied into some cem prospect research tools that they didn’t realize also had this other relationship mapping component to it that they might not be taking advantage of right now. So i do like to include some of that information, so i think we should just tell people at the outset no, that what the all of the resource is that we’ll talk about on today’s show i have compiled the mall in a list, and i’ll post them on both your facebook business page. Tony, and i’ll do it also on your new lincoln group, if that’s alright with you too, so this way they can they can listen and not have to worry about taking as much in the way of notes at this time, because i’ll point them to all of the sights. Okay, let me just share with you the poll question on this dark, which was, are you using relationship mapping tools? Many free, like muckety dot com and note excel, which we’ll get to toe uncover relationships in your existing data? Nobody said yes, half said no, but i know about the tools. And the other half said i’ve never heard of this. I better listen on friday, okay, so even people who know about aren’t using them. So hopefully we so we need to motivate a little bit. This is this is a lot deeper than just the pull down menu of friends that each person in your database has right friends within the database. That’s correct? Yeah, this’s much deeper than that. And so there are services that have done a very nice job of compiling people, compiling companies who those people are within the companies within the foundation’s, etcetera and and really painting a picture of how these people are all interconnected because, you know, building relationships is really crucial to the ongoing success of a nonprofit organization. We hear over and over and over again and development about how people give to people, get out their network, meet more people, build relationships and so on and so forth. So this could be a way to at least identify who some of those other people are that we should be talking. Tio okay. And so this is before we get into the actual services thes air screenings, right? So you would share your data with the companies that you are with the sites that we’re going to talk about? Is that right? Well, no, not necessarily. I go in and i used the services on a one off basis. No, i go in and i plug in the name of an individual, and i see what that particular service might have compiled on that individual and who they’re connected to in the world and so forth. So i was doing a little bit of testing this week on ah, well known name of an individual who is connected in both the business and the foundation world here in new jersey. And i came up with some really interesting results. I don’t know if you want me to get into, you know that specific name or any of that. I’m not the person. You. Yeah, but i know that you can just go and start with just a name and plug that name in. Okay, you can do it on individual name basis, but i’m a little confused. So i thought this was data mining. Can you also reveal relationships within your database? That goes deeper than that? A couple of theirs, too. Services that i looked at in the last couple of weeks. Preparing for this show that do allow you to do it with your own. Yeah. Never prepared. I tried. You should be the host. So two of the services one free, one fee based to do allow you to talk. Kind of. Take a look at your own database and discover relationship. Let’s, get into what? The zone. Now, what’s the what’s, the free one. Okay, so a couple of the free ones. But since we’re on the topic of minding your own database let’s, talk about a free tool that allows you to do that. It’s called node x l and o d e xl and this is actually a an interactive network. Visually, they call it a network. No, i can’t even talk visualization and analysis tool that leverages your m s excel application as the platform. So it’s a plug in really for your if you have anything that you can export to excel and they say it’s a free download in a zip file. Now i’ve not tested this. Hopefully, you know, i’m not missing speaking here that it’s up and still available and working, but that were supposed to be able, teo, help you identify relationships that exist within your database. And then is this one of the companies that are one of the site, so that will give you those fancy looking maps with all the detailed lines and showing all connections between people and treat people and companies? That’s, right? That’s really kind of the cool thing about this, about this whole notion of relationship mapping is that imagine tony martignetti being a little stick figure on your computer screen and resonating out from there like a starburst? Almost would be lines like spokes. Okay? And so tony might be connected to the two martignetti. Plan giving advisers tony might be connected to abc board of directors for a corporation. Tony might be connected to x y z non-profit board. So all of the spokes are pointing out to other places where tony has a connection. And this is all mind off the internet. Really? All of the publicly available data foundations also. Right. Someone’s got to foundation that’s, right? That’s? Right. So one of the other now a fee based tool that will allow you to look at again at your own relationship management tools. You’ve heard of sales force, right? Which is what they call a, like a cr ram, a customer relationship or constituent relationship management tool. What’s jargon jail. They’re okay. You know, that’s going trying to explain. So it’s it’s really it’s a way for you to house all of your contact information. A lot of people. Will you simply use something like outlook for this? Um, but anyway, it’s it’s a tool to house data on individuals that either customers, donors, prospects and sales forces. Actually, they do have a component available free to non-profits, by the way. So they have a tool called prospect visual. And what prospect? Visual does is it interacts with sales force, so they provide. They say that they provide their clients with comprehensive intelligence about their target opportunities, and they deliver key insights about ways to reach them with trusted introductions. So that is a fee based tool, and that might be something that if your organization is using the sales force to track all of your donor records and so forth, you might take a look at using prospect visual right now. Do you know whether prospect visual works with the free component, the free offering of sales force for channels? I didn’t get that far in my research, so i’m not one hundred percent certain about that, but i would think that it should interact who is even what they have available to the non profit sector, if not certainly something you might start asking sales force about. If you are sales force user, that might be something you could bring to their attention that you would like access to having this integrate with prospect visual. Okay, so there’s two tools that i know specifically of that i’ve i’ve come across that will look at your own your existing data now. Do you know? Do you import to the to the sales force based one the prospect visual? Is that also an xl import or export to it or someone you know? I think that directly connects and relates into your sales force dot com database. If you have a database house there, you would look at prospect visual if you have your database housed and more if you’re really small and you’re not into any type of fund-raising software, you might take a look at this note, excel if that plug in is available for you day or what, or whatever program you are using for your database management, you might be able to export from there to excel, yeah, and then and then from excel toe node excel, right? And, you know, i think it would be totally reasonable as well, now that i’m thinking about it for you to go to your software provider, whoever you are using for donor database management and say to them, hey, you know, i just learned about this new tool called relationship mapping i’d love to be able to know what does your firm offer in terms of a tool that i can use to mind, ah, nde, find new and existing relationship that i didn’t realize existed within my own database. Okay, we have just a minute before break. Maria, you wantto introduce us to another? Yeah, let’s, get yeah, let’s, get into one other one that’s free at this point. Muckety muck, itty dot com m u c k e t. Why this’s really pretty cool? It is. It explores path of power and influence. That’s. What their tagline, your muckety muck. So you can see here by a person’s name or an organization name, but don’t use me as an example because i am not a muckety muck. So put somebody else in that that that was your name in there. You didn’t come up in that database. I did. I did try to put your name in there while i was playing, but i could wait. What’d you say i was busy talking over you? What? No, i didn’t find your name in no surprise. All right, so you gotta rub it in. Thank you. Couldn’t just leave it. It wasn’t enough for me to just joke about you had actually make it realistic. And riel really? Thank you. Thank you so much. This’ll be maria’s last time on this show. So you may as well. Tweeter of fan fond farewell use hashtag non-profit radio say goodbye to maria. Actually, we’re going to take a break and when we come back we’ll talk more about muckety without me, so stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast. Talking. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m talking with maria simple about relationship mapping on dh, the next site that we’re gonna talk about his loser dot com. So your prospects are not on muckety like me, which maria hastily pointed out, you goto loser dot com and they’ll map all the of course they’ll be no spokes coming from that would just be one little stick figure in the middle. No spokes it’ll just have the person in isolation. Yeah, i’m not sure we should be sending people to that site. I have no idea. I don’t know what that all right, let’s, talk about mark s o muckety. Yeah, you know, we’ll we’ll provide you with that nice visual map, as i described it a little earlier about how people are connected, but also they have ah, brief bio that they provide on individual. So i do find that quite used so you might come across an individual that you’d like tio run through that particular database. I frequently when i’m doing my prospect research, tony, these are tools that i have in my toolbox, right? So i’ll be, you know, doing research and finding out what? You know about their philanthropic giving about their assets, anything i can get ahold of in the public domain. These sites are yet another tool that i do reach out to and run their names through the services. Sometimes it’ll be in one service, and sometimes it’ll be in another and that’s why it’s important to kind of have a nice arsenal that you can tap into and have more than just one even relationship mapping, mapping tools? What i think is valuable about these tools is i want to point out that because i was looking at the some of the maps that were created, they don’t just show the person and their connections, but then let’s say the person is connected to a foundation and then the other people who are connected to that foundation that’s, right? And then as well as other people connected that person so it doesn’t just go one one level out or one dimension, right? You can keep, you can keep expanding it out much further. So as i was talking before about using your name is an example. Let’s say you’re connected to the x y z foundation. Well, then, certainly that’s. That’s not just a bricks and mortar building, right? That foundation, that foundation is made up of people so you can actually click on that foundation name and hit expand. And it will then show shootout spokes. And at the end of each spoke will be the individual names of other directors who are connected to that foundation. So presumably then tony martignetti would have access to say all ten of those directors of that particular foundation. And this all has the advantage of being visual which appeals to a lot of people. Yes, absolutely, absolutely so. Moving on to the next tool i want to talk about is corporation wicki. And again here you can search by people, companies and st. So one of the things that i liked about corporation wiki is that you can. Then you can click on your state name and then drill down further to getting it just as far down as a name of a particular town. And names pop up their corporations and so forth. So, you know, a lot of the wealth in america. Tony is held by people who own their own business since right? So that was that was highlighted forthe very well many years ago in that book the millionaire next door. So you make you may have some new names pop up of businesses and individuals that you had no idea resided or ran a business in your particular community. And so this might bring up some new organizations and people that you want to check out a little further is corporation wicky one of the free sites or this is a pay one? Yes, it’s free. Well now another free one that we have talked about extensively in the past, it’s called lincoln and you know that is more on, you know, you have to be a lincoln member, which is free todo, but then you can also plug in the name of an individual, and it will tell you how many degrees you’re separated from that individuals so that’s more for me to be your business to business prospecting that you might be looking to do and developing relationship. So i don’t think we need to spend too much time talking about lengthen because we’ve talked about it a lot, but certainly it can be considered a relationship mapping tool they actually have ah provide a link to your listeners to something called in maps, which is kind of ah, cool, interactive visual representation of your own professional universe. Where do you find that? How do you find in mathos i’ve got the link for you right on the, uh called in maps, and i provided on the recap that i’ll send out after the conclusion of today was flickering through its on lincoln it’s unlinked yet, but i’m saying we’ll put it on facebook page and in the lincoln group. Yes, i’ll put it on both planes for you, uh, another freebie and the final one to talk about in terms of the free is called the notable names database, and they say that they track over thirty seven thousand people of note. Now i will say that there you’re going to be finding more of the, you know, famous people who are out there, but but certainly if you happen to have a prospect who is a famous individual or a donor who’s, a famous individual, you might run their names through the database to see who else they may be connected to, that they could help open some doors that sounds like it could also be called top one tenth of one percent dot com thirty seven thousand people that’s pretty small. But now that i’ve confused people, why don’t you give the name of that site one more time? Uh, notable names database it’s called n and d b and they had something called a mapper. Tools and andy be mad. Brutal. We have to leave it there. All these resources will be on the facebook page and the new linked in group maria simple is the prospect finder. You will find her. You will. You will find the finder at the prospect finder dot com. Thank you very much, maria. Thank you very much. Always a pleasure. Finance my thanks. Also to cheryl nufer for joining me in the first segment next week. The eminem’s melanie and melanie it’s the melanie show. Melanie grace west writes the donor of the day feature for the wall street journal. I have a special title all set for her. You’ll have to listen to hear what that is. I’ll ask her how she likes to be pitched so that you can give it your best shot at getting major coverage for your donors. In the journal, and we’ll also talk about what she’s learned from writing this column every day five days a week, the donor of the day feature and melanie schnoll begun is managing director at morgan stanley private wealth management. She helps her ultra high net worth clients make charitable gifts and get on boards, but she has incredible, really valuable practical advice that applies to any charity soliciting any size, gift or recruiting any boardmember also, do you think that the very wealthy people aren’t interested in small and midsize charity boards? She’s going to prove you wrong podcast listeners you stepped up. Thank you very much again for rating my show in itunes. If you haven’t yet, you can always start by going to non-profit radio dot net. I think i mentioned that once or twice earlier. And for those of you who did thank you again very much. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote proof producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you will be with me next. Week for the melanie show, friday, one to two p. M eastern. Always at talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. They didn’t think that shooting. Good ending, depending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, get anything. Cubine how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? 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Nonprofit Radio for September 3, 2010: Talking About Your People

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

Tony’s Guest:

Karen Bradunas, Human Resources consultant.

Talking about your people.

They are your most important asset: attracting, hiring, retaining, motivating, managing and removing.

Here is the link to the podcast: 008: People: Your Most Precious Asset

This Friday from 1-2pm this week and every week!

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Fridays, 1-2PM Eastern

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Metoo this’s tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host tony martignetti welcome to the show. Last week, we talked about honesty about your organization’s mistakes and failures we had new york times, stephanie strong with us in the studio, and we also talked about keeping your non-profit and you’re bored, safe and out of trouble. Remember, that was with ken cerini and jean takagi no threatening letters from the attorney general in your state or from the irs that was last week. This week were focused on your people techniques to attract and retain your most precious resource, which is the people who work for you, the people who help you to help those who your organization is supporting and improving the lives of your people. Your most critical resource, your non-profits future depends on having the best people working for you. My guest this week is karen bradunas, human resources consultant. Karen will join us after the break and about midway through i’ll have some thoughts about charitable gift annuities. I want you to be careful about those they could be an outstanding gift for your non-profit but there are some things to be aware of, and i’ll talk about those around the middle of the show. Joining me after this break, we’ll be karen bradunas will be back in ninety seconds. You can wait that long. Please stay with us. You didn’t think that shooting getting thinking, you’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in i’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re non-profit is ignored because you’re smaller medium size, but you still need expertise and help with technology fund-raising compliance, finance and accounting will look at all of these areas on the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on talking alternative dot com fridays. One, too hyre talking. Welcome back, i’m tony martignetti i’m joined now by karen bradunas karen is a human resource is consultant, and her stated guiding philosophy is to bring large company expertise and best practices to smaller organizations. That sounds a lot like big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. So where? Simpatico on that? Prior to consulting, karen held officer positions at travelers insurance and deutsche bank, so she brings big for-profit experience to non-profits karen has an impressive acronym after her name one i don’t see too often s p h r spohr is senior professional in human resource is, and i’m very glad that karen’s practice brings her to the studio today. Karen, welcome. Hi, tony, how are you? I’m well, thanks very much for coming. A few weeks ago, i blogged on something that i called the elusive perfect fit employee. I was concerned about anecdotes that i hear from people who are in the job search and applying for jobs and are told that they’re very well qualified, but they’re told we’re going to hold out for the perfect fit. We’re looking for that perfect fit, employees, and you commented on my block and why don’t we start there. What do you think about that illusive perfect fit? Employees? This is a hot topic right now. Among a lot of hr professionals. Our concerns are what is a perfect employee in that term in general, is it what fits you organization today? Is it what fits your organization in five years? Do you even know where you’ll be in five years? Is a perfect employee, someone who’s flexible. So the word perfect and job specs right now, it’s a conundrum because when we have conversations with hiring managers, oftentimes they don’t know and oftentimes a job description is being written based on a failure of a predecessor or an employee who leaves and say, i like this person, but i really want to add this other piece to the job. So i have concerned that it’s not really strategic when people say i want a perfect employee. So i think this is challenging right now. A number of hr people are sort of scratching their heads. I’ve talked to a number of recruiters across sectors and all they’re saying, well, we’re not really sure. So what they’re doing is they’re translating what they hear from the employee into words they understand, which may or may not be the right fit. I use an example, a new organization that wants a cfo that does web design, which everyone so scratches your head. Maybe the client really means they need a cfo who understands the technology and presence of web two point. Oh, that’s a lot different than a cfo that does web design, and i think that that’s one of the challenges right now. You mentioned the job description a couple of times, and you’ve alluded to it sounds like that’s critical to the to the to the first part of the hiring process, which is identifying your needs basically right, the job description. Besides being necessary as a compliance issue, which is a big deal, and employers, i really need to look at it because this is going to be a heavily regulated and looked at field on area. Sorry of h r it is a guide map for anyone doing a search of a way of weeding out resumes. On average, a recruiter spends less than a minute on a resume that’s. Why job seekers are always worried about buzz words and trying to read. Job descriptions in job postings, which are two different things, a job posting summarizes what you’re looking for a job description, talks about usually summarizes a job, talks about specifics of the job and also skills needed and minimum requirements to do the job. And maybe we’ll get to the job posting shortly. That job description is that supposed to be just an internal document? Or is that also shared often or should it be shared? I mean, let’s talk best practices? What that be shared with potential potential employees? There are a few schools of thought on this from a risk reduction standpoint. Usually i show two prospective employees this is the job description. Are you able to do this job? Do you need any kind of accommodation to do this job? It’s helpful for them to see it? I think every employees should see their job description on the part as part of the hiring process. Yeah, i don’t see a problem with that because if if you’re looking for someone and you’re investing employees, invest a lot of time in recruiting there’s a huge amount of time, and if you really want the best person and you’ve taken all this time to write a job description. What? Why not share it? Why not talk about why not have the the prospective employees say i haven’t done this, but i’ve done this this and this that really would help your organization and have a chance to really talk to what your needs are and that’s going to be after the employees get screen or the potential employee gets screened because we’ve right, we’ve looked at the resume now where we have just a few people coming in, and at that stage, your recommendation is share. The job description was at that screening process. Yeah, that’s challenging, yeah, everyone i’ve talked to tio it’s frustrating right now in this market for every job posting out there, you get hundreds of resumes and i’m talking about hundreds in a week or in a few days, and so often times people are screening based on things like, okay, which school did they goto? I’m looking for this specific buzz where, because the client said it four times in our conversation, i i sometimes get asked by my clients to do searches, even though i don’t sell myself as a recruiter and i actually research candidates through linked in and other tools, and invite them to apply because i’m looking for specialized behaviours, projects, successes and that way i don’t have to weed through all the people that really are not appropriate. And that’s, pretty standard practice to for employers is, too go beyond the resume and cover letter writing to do some research online. It isn’t a standard, as one might hope. Okay, well, maybe. Well, why don’t we pick that up after this break? I’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio, and my guest is karen bradunas human resource is consultant will be back after this break. Stay with us. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness can help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set two one two nine six, four, three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Dahna hyre durney. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Durney welcome back on tony martignetti i’m joined by karen bradunas human resource is consultant karen. Before the break, we were talking about online research, researching candidates beyond their cover letter and resume. You think it’s not as widespread as it should be, i think it’s a generational split, i think generation x and y really do use web to point l as tools off attracting candidates as well as researching the backgrounds of candidates. I think baby boomers are a little reluctant to do so. I they’re at their peril. You think you think think they limit who they can their pool of candidates? I also think the approach to social media and privacy is very different for a baby boomer versus generation x and y and this is a hot issue legally let’s talk about it, what’s what’s up there. Well, i am pretty consistently talking to clients about what shared openly on the web and the implications to the organization on, and i find that for for most baby boomers there, they tend to be more conservative and again, i’m really generalizing and generation x and why the common is so what geever and it’s a quagmire and it’s yet to really be resolved, i have some employment attorneys that air saying, you know, we really need to be careful how we craft this because it’s not going away it’s goingto only grow in the future, but in terms of a tool and a viable tool to reach audiences. But do you really want to know how some of your employees spend their free time and what some of their alternative interests are? If it’s not aligned with the organization’s mission, you mentioned something earlier that i want to follow up on, and that was that you will occasionally invite candidates. You will go beyond the submissions that you get, i oftentimes we’ll start a search by not posting it. I will actually go on to and i use linked in a lot because i find that that to be a pretty professional tool that i can find out a lot about an applicant, i will go on lengthen, do some searches and ask people to join my network or tom about thie position, and then they can apply. And do you see others doing that you’re you’re doing that as a consultant. Do you see clients doing? That, on their own. Not again. I have smaller clients, so that’s our audience and one of the challenges they face is they have one person who wears five or six hats trying to recruit, you know, handle all of the hr handled a number of things. So when they have an immediate need for someone, they may not be having the time to do the research, andi, oftentimes they’ll ask me to help with that. I think they would benefit from it. I think that a number of people maybe can use some guidelines of of some shortcuts of how to do that that i’ve learned the hard way, but oftentimes i see the actual business line. Is we using corporate world or the individual hiring manager saying i found someone, i want you to meet them and let them through hr and which is ok, but i think hr lacks the supporting nature that they probably should have by by bringing in the candidates to the hiring manager. I’m tony martignetti my guest is karen bradunas human resource is consultant. Karen, would you share maybe one of those wanted to those shortcuts that you just mentioned? Sure, i i do sorts unlinked. In and i do google strings. There is an incredible recruiter whose classes are often free on the web. His name is shelly stuck role and i’m giving him a free plug. Can you spell his last name from s t e c k e r e l okay, andi, i think the organization he’s with his are baida r b i t a they also published things that help on he’s, viewed in the hr community as an incredible resource. He gives seminars on sure webinars and i think actually has done some sherm conferences. Sherm is the site of three mean society for human resource is management. It is lobbying bodies also. Ah, great resource for anyone who is has the hr function. They will do research for you if you need it. So it’s it’s a good organization you belong to. But shelly has some great ways of doing strings searches and using the internet for getting passive candidates as well as active candidates for a lot of not-for-profits it doesn’t make sense economically to join all the job boards it’s expensive to have their resume databases it’s also time consuming to develop your own resume database. Often for not-for-profits air looking for very specialized knowledge that may or may not be in the typical databases. So, um, doing searches and even business search is on specific documents. Published articles are great ways to get candidates excellent ideas. Thank you, let’s. Sort of follow the hiring chronology. Let’s, talk a little bit about interviewing, okay? Ah, i’ll just open it broadly. What? What ideas do you have? Based on what you’re seeing people doing about interviewing? I’m seeing more of a trend in this market of doing phone screenings first before in person interviews. I this was a number of months ago. The hiring turnaround has become longer. Typically for a secretary. You could turn that wreck around in about a week. Recruiting now, it’s about a month and this phone screening is at a practice you like, um, iphone screen. But again, i oftentimes will interview applicants in, like pennsylvania and it’s, just cheaper to do that. I do an hour phone interview. I don’t know anyone else. I approach recruiting, sort of like a retained in contingency approach, so i will have an hour’s worth of questions to ask someone and i will talk about how to handle this situation what? You know, what do you most proud of? Give me examples. So i’m doing a behavioral interview as well as going through the resume and getting, you know, data. So for small and midsize organization, they can really spend save a lot of time, i think, by doing the phone screening interview, even if it is a local candidate close. Yeah, i think so. And you don’t have to worry about scheduling and people traveling in and all of that, i do think it’s really critical what you ask in an interview, i’m really surprised when i go through files of of of interviews, it took place some of the questions that get asked because i think that the organization can really vet candidates much better had they asked a few more questions in the interview process, so okay, let’s, move past the phone screening interview, which you highly recommend to the live face-to-face what tips do you have there? Well, when in a live interview i’m looking for, you know, do they make eye contact? How do they answer my questions? Is there anything that looks to be that they’re uncomfortable with? And then i want to probe that further, so i’m doing a lot of body language at that point, i want to see how they interact with other people. I have done both group interviews and individual interviews. I’ve worked a lot with technical organizations, and although i’m not a night person, i’ve been fairly accurate a calling problems with employees out in the interview like you have a problem with this one he’s going to be late all the time, and you never problem with this one, they’re going to want to really be pushed in their career if you’re not prepared to do that, don’t hyre and have you been vindicated means there have been hires and then within six months or so, yes, you were, but i warned them and again, i think the challenge for me is an h r professional when i see this and i and i’ve learned over time to say i want to go on record as saying this, i then have to let go because it is the hiring managers role to take what they want as an employee because it’s their business, the ultimate decision is altum absolutely the interview what? About the dreaded group interview that from from the employees or from the interviewees perspective is the dreaded why might there be a need for for, ah, panel interview? Or is that a bad practice? I don’t think it’s a bad practice, i think it’s a bad practice if you’re having someone do in, you know, projects on their own and not going to be in a panel environment after hyre them, i think you want to replicate the environment that the person is going to be working in, and if you want to test how they interact with different work styles, i know some some employers say, you know, this person can get a little wild in an interview, so i’m going to be there to temper their questions or, you know, to make sure they’re okay with a candidate, but i think that you want to replicate his best, you can the environment to coming into it’s like training. People talk a lot about training classes and how they did really well in the training class, but they couldn’t bring it back to the workplace we’ll, of course, because the training class with this was a sterile environment. That there were rules there, the rules may be different in the work environment, but and it’s okay, toe evaluate the employee, how they might perform, even though you know that it’s already a pressure environment there feeling pressure because the interview situation so, yeah, i think that that’s really critical if you have someone that’s going to be giving proposals to senior senior people in donors, if you don’t test how they do well under pressure, i think you’re doing your organization into service and you may lose dollars dahna dollars because of that. So there’s an implicit value to doing this aside from evaluating the substance of their of their answers in their conversation that you’re seeing how they perform under pressure in front of a panel of things two or three people or maybe more people, right? Because that’s going to be part of their job responsibilities let’s get past the interview, you’ve made the hyre and i know there’s there’s a lot of law around the hiring, but i’m goingto i’m goingto skip that and i’d really like to spend a little time on training. You’ve got a brand new employee, it’s let’s say, it’s day. One what do we do in that first day? And maybe the first couple of weeks, i think most employers i talked to struggle with some better than others. How to onboard that’s, thie hr speak for onboarding employees, we have george in jail here onboard defined onboarding the employees, i’m bored not like waterboarding the important okay, but it can feel like that. But yes, lorts onboarding onboarding is really bringing an employee in and making them part of the culture so it can be all things from the paperwork to meeting other employees to feeling they know where they to go, to get what they need to get the job done to understanding what their role is in the organization. It’s really assimilation on, and i think that organisations typically could afford to spend a lot more time developing an orientation on boarding process. And i imagine there’s a lot of documentation that goes with this should be a written documents, right? What kinds of documentations, but even beyond that? Because you’re giving an employee of the legal requirement documents, you know, that setting up for payroll, giving an employee manual, all of that stuff, but there’s also you know, here’s, my team, this is what we dio let’s talk to this other team because we interact with him, let’s, meet with them let’s, you know, figure out how things work within the organization that people process it’s really difficult for organizations to get meaning time for new employees because everybody’s worried about getting there, job done and you hire people you don’t typically hyre five people on the same day. So it’s a really scheduling issue as well, but it is time well spent. Absolutely. It should be a sounds like it should be a priority that supervisors say this is important onboarding welcoming our new employee, you need to find the time for it. What? What if? What if we don’t? What are the implications of putting somebody in day one saying there’s, the there’s, the ladies room, here’s, your phone and computer let’s hit the ground running? Well, this this is typical of startups and i’ve done a lot of work with started i think you run the risk of a culture developing based on the the diversity of the group. If you have a set culture you want to maintain, which is our organization. Does this we value our people? This is what we respect. This is what we promote. This is what we reward. Then you have the basis for an orientation program. If you can’t articulate that, you’re gonna have trouble recruiting retaining a motivating. And i think that those air really but it’s, not the job description that gets you good people, it’s you knowing what your organization is and what you need for foreign employees based on what you don’t want for unemployed base and with a with a proper orientation, then it sounds like you’re point is everybody starts from the same base and you’re not subject to, as you said, the diversity of your employee pool. But everybody starts with same face of knowledge, base of knowledge and understanding of the organisation. It creates a transparency because you’re giving the same message to everyone. Let’s say that there’s one person in the organization that has the history, the organization if they happen to meet you and tell you that you now have insider knowledge that i might not have even though i started before you there is going that’s going to create attention there that doesn’t need to. Be there simply because i wasn’t there. It didn’t speak to this individual you mentioned motivating we have just a couple of minutes before the break. Let’s move to the next step. I think of sort of motivating and retaining your valued employees what? Just in the minute and half we have left before the break and give us little tease of ideas. Sure, i think a lot of people employees looked too benefits in salary to motivate, and i think that there are some other things that they should be looking at, especially in this marketplace name just a couple. Well, there’s um, some low cost, no cost rewards of training managers better that would help retain and motivate staff better management training. Absolutely people will feel that there they belong. They belong there. Value is recognized absolutely all the all the important things that go into teo hiring decision that you don’t want to lose a good value that you’ve hired by not motivating and retaining. Absolutely. And after this break, we’re going to talk more about motivating and retaining. I’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio my guest is karen bradunas and she’ll be with us, please. Stay with us after this break. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. I’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re non-profit is ignored because you’re smaller medium size. But you still need expertise and help with technology fund-raising compliance, finance and accounting will look at all of these areas on the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on talking alternative dot com fridays one, too. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back on tony martignetti before we continue our conversation with karen, i’d like teo talk a little bit about charitable gift annuities. This is sort of come to my onto my radar screen because some recent phone calls that i’ve gotten organizations interested in a charitable gift annuity program. Now this is a type of, ah planned gift where the donor who creates one earns income for life from their charitable gift annuity and at their death. What remains in the gift is a gift of cash to your organization in the midst of our recession, there are more and more donors interested in lifetime income, and this income, by the way, is fixed, guaranteed by all the assets of your organization, not just by what’s in their individual gift, but by all the assets of your organization. So in the midst of a recession, that’s appealing to a good number of donors and there are calls that i’ve been getting about starting a charitable gift annuity program, there are some things you should be aware of. Um, if you’re in new york state, if you’re a new york state charity, for instance, there is a hefty amount of money that you have to put into ah mandatory reserve fund it’s one hundred thousand dollars that reserve fund is required by the new york state insurance of department of new york state department of insurance. That department regulates charitable gift annuity programs in the state of new york and it’s, not too uncommon across the states. So really, regardless of where your non-profit is, there’s a lot of regulation, i say in seminars, obey pretty thick web of regulation around charitable gift annuities. You need to know what the requirements are in your state before you can inaugurate a charitable gift annuity program. It’s not like a lot of other planned gift that you can just start offering like charitable bequests. We’d like to have your bequest in in your will for our organization that you could do any time. Charitable gift annuities, very heavily regulated, and in a lot of states, you need to have prior approval, usually by an insurance department before you start offering these gif ts, you also want your board to be well acquainted with the potential of charitable gift annuities because there is a great long term potential, but also the potential risk. I mentioned that the payments are backed by all the assets of your organisation. That means that if the reserve fund where the gift money’s go should be badly managed or depleted, your organization is really still on the hook to make the annuity payments for your donor’s lifetime. And you have multiple donors in your gift annuity program. That’s payments for many donors lifetimes it’s a contract so you’re bored needs to understand that it’s going to be at risk if there should be mismanagement of the monies that are given into a charitable gift annuity program. The organization’s money is going to be potentially at risk to make these life time payments. That said, charitable gift annuities can be a really valuable gift not on ly for the money that they bring in the long term, but also the relationships that they build for your organization. You’ve got donors now if they enter your gift annuity program to make this type of a gift, who are counting on you most likely to support their and supplement their retirement there, other income during retirement and for the rest of their life that’s a pretty serious responsibility, but it brings the donor so close to your organization because now they’re counting on you for their for their income are part of their income for the rest of their life. That’s a serious obligation that you’ve taken on, and a serious commitment that the donor has made to you. They you know, they love you a lot. They trust you a lot if they’re going to make that kind of a commitment to you. And now you’ve got someone that close to you and you can perhaps encourage them to make gift in other ways. You certainly want to keep inviting them to events and keep them close to your organisation. But you’ve got really a friend for life if this all goes well, so there are advantages to charitable gift annuities, long term financial advantages, relationship building, financial relationship, building advantages. But there are also risks and obligations that you’re bored and your ceo need to be acquainted with before you delve into a charitable gift annuity program. My guest is karen bradunas human resources consultant. Karen what do we give people an idea? How first? How can they reach you if they’d like toe talk to you? How can people get in contact with you. Sure, i have a website, which is km bradunas dot com. Which people can can go to and send me an email? I also can be reached by phone to one, two, three, oh, four, nine, one, four, six and typically get back to people within forty eight hours. Very thoughtful of you to offer your telephone number. Thank you and karen’s. Last name is spelled b r, a, d, u and a s karen before the break, and before i waxed on about charitable gift annuities, we’re talking about motivating employees to help retain them. What what other ideas do you have? I’d like to step back a little bit and talk about exit interviews. We’re going to go from the end of why employees leave yeah, okay, because there are lessons to learn, i guess lessons to learn and we’ll talk about i talk a lot ah lot about this with clients because i think that this is a great tool that employers are missing out on it’s free and you get valuable data. Typically, i’ve given a lot of exit interviews in my twenty plus years in hr of usually, the first thing an employee will say is i’m getting better money and then i’ll talk fifteen minutes, twenty minutes and invariably by a half a knauer i hear that they never had a review, they never had a review on time their manager never talked to them. Those are all low no cost things an employee may leave because of money, but five or ten percent difference in pay if they’re able to meet expenses, doesn’t typically have someone looking elsewhere unless they’re unhappy where they are. He’s employees spend a lot of time recruiting and onboarding people it’s sad when they lose someone simply because of manager doesn’t take time to check in with an employee, how they’re doing, and this goes back to the management training that you mentioned before the break. How can we help managers be better? It’s, it’s, really top down, start with the ceo. I talk a lot to ceos, and i hear the comment well, i don’t really like managing, or i don’t like, really doing reviews, and i talk about these air ceos saying, i don’t like managing. Typically, they they, like a lot of ceo, is like to be strategic, but they need teo. Give some guidance, and if they can’t, give guidance to at least hyre someone where staff can go to to get that. I talk a lot about critical incident files with people because it’s a little daunting teo to review a year in one of the challenges when you only do yearly reviews is you remember the last three months, so what’s a critical incident file critical incident file is let’s say we could build a tv show around, i think there’s an c s critical cf cf show, for instance, a manager comes to you and says your employees did a great job on this project. You know, i just want to let you know it really went off. Well, you write that down positive, it’s positive, you save it in a file an employee keeps coming in late, you’re getting emails or you’re keeping those two that that was in this file and you’re talking to the employees as this happens, by the way, so and so gave you a compliment. It takes less than a minute to do that and the motivation for an employee to get that instant feedback buys you an awful lot, so there should be a critical incident file for every employee, right and and that’s used. When you do you review, you don’t have to think about what happened this past year, you open the file and it’s there, and we’ll get more than just the last three months writing a review. What else? Management, you know, may maybe mid level managers training them. Two motivate employees. What else can we do? I’d like to differentiate between supervising and managing because there are people that view them as the same. Managing really requires someone to understand communication styles. Other staff. It helped it’s important for them to understand the interests of their staff in what motivates them. Some people are motivated by money. Some people are motivated by your organization’s mission. Some people are motivated by public recognition. You know, i had an organization that they really were into. Cakes for employees, teo acknowledge birthdays and that with a home baked cakes or were they store bought? Okay, well, so all right, you know, but i know a number of organization that’s really important for you. And for me, that was like, well, what do you mean? But that was part of their culture. And although there’s indications that they would benefit from allowing staff to run with projects of their own choosing, they have a creative staff, and if you have a creative staff, why not create a budget that says we’re going to hold a contest? You’re going to come up with your pet project and let’s, hold a contest and let somebody run with a project. So there’s there’s some creative ways of doing things, and when you start to look at how you’re spending money in recognition and it doesn’t really serve the demographics of your organization, i think you can come up with low cost, no cost rewards, creative ways of managing employees without spending a lot of money? Absolutely. How about the ah, the very important performance review you’ve given us a great idea had a coalesce all the activities for the year through the critical incident file. What else about performance reviews? Are you learning in exit interviews that that these reviews are falling short two areas one they’re not given and to their surprises, performance reviews should not be a surprise they should summarize the year that means if you have an employee that’s having difficulty getting to work on time or performing up to standards, you need to be meaning with them at helping them. Succeed because every time that happens, there’s an entry that goes into the critical incident five and there’s a conversation also, well, one of the challenges for those who don’t keep critical incident files and have conversations is the review becomes a surprise. So this is the first time the employees hears about it a lot. A number of organizations also have a napro tch to performance management, which is, you know, the first time i’ll tell you about it. The second time i’ll write you up in the third time, it will be a final warning, and they often don’t talk about performance improvement. That sounds pretty ominous. Sounds like that sounds like a one way one way track out of the out of the organization. So as soon as your manager comes to talk to you think, ok, this is one of three i’m going to get in the last one’s gonna be i’m out of here. It really needs to be where the manager owns the apart in the process of an employee success. Oftentimes i have conversations with managers that, you know, managing an employee doesn’t mean you just get more money and you get to tell someone what to dio you’re responsible for their success and failure to you share in that and so it it revolves around hey, this is what i need to change and it’s challenging sometimes to train managers at what specifics behaviors they want to see changed because it’s not a belief system, you have control over its behaviors, you know, the time frame for that change and what tools and training maybe needed to have that change occur. And is that something that an employee’s should sign a document that that they’ve been sort of counseled in improvement? Yes, they actually get a copy of this document and they’re actually with this document hr is involved in monitoring that meetings are happening regularly. Yeah, it’s it’s a working document and this probably has legal implications, too, if if the if the performance doesn’t improve, which we’re going to talk about after the break but this is all sort of building that file. Yes. Also the non the not doing of things also has a legal compliance, which we should talk about the organization not not doing things that it ought to be doing. Absolutely okay in the performance review. Is this one of those instances where there need to be more than one person giving the review? Well? Well, actually, we want to use your phrase, which was performance improvement when these performance improvement meetings should there does. There need to be more than one person counseling the employees, typically, performance improvement plans. It’s at the beginning stages of hey, this isn’t really working out. We’ve talked a little bit about it, let’s, figure out a way to make we need a road map. If someone’s trained in hr and delivering this kind of thing, no, if they’re not, then i highly recommend that someone a professional be there. Oh, not just that there be two people, but that one being hr professional, we’re gonna take a break on. My guest is karen bradunas. She’ll certainly join us after the break. I hope you will, too, tony martignetti non-profit radio. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oh! I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter in y si dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six, four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Print. Talking dot com. No. My guest is karen bradunas and we’re talking about your most important resource, your people. Karen. Before the break, we alluded to the legal implications of some of the performance review and performance improvement let’s go into that little further what what are some of these implications? Well, one of the challenges i find for a lot of employers is they don’t want to, or i have difficulty addressing concerns with an employee, and it gets it progresses over time to a point where they say this employee really isn’t fit for the organization anymore, and so to avoid having a difficult conversation, they they don’t do any reviews, they don’t have any any documented conversations, and there are really specific things you need to document in formats to document, and i really encourage anyone who is going through this process to really talk to a professional about it. Oftentimes managers want to handle it on their own. They really should work with someone in hr about what the wording is on a document what’s being spoken about in the conversation on you want to maintain respect for the employees, et cetera and and often times it’s very emotional, so the challenge is no review has given no conversations or documented, and then you want to terminate the employees or even better, the first year the employee was there, you gave them an excellent review and then no review since and now you want to terminate the employees? Yeah, i have had a number of conversations with employees about this and how to manage this, and it really is it’s stressful for them because they end up spending more time in the end of trying to transition and employees out. Had they done reviews regulating had conversations regularly, the process would have either turned around or because we want to be talking about employees improvement. Things could have gotten much better, absolutely, and and it’s unfair to the organization and to the employees and and i can’t stress enough how much this leaks out into the staff and affects all staff motivation because if they see an underperforming employees or disgruntled employees and nothing being done about it, it impacts your entire organization and wouldn’t the fellow employees rather see and a fellow employee improve, then be terminated? Absolutely talk about motivating, right, right, and they start inferring from your behavior toward that employee, how you’re going to treat them, and this is a huge issue that employers need to be aware of. Well, if you didn’t do this for jane, what do you going to do to me? How you going to tell me i’m not doing my job? Well, so it creates this fear that impacts, you know, motivation and productivity in an organization. So yeah, and it becomes really management by fear, even though the manager or the ceo may not he or she may not very well be a tyrant at all, but it’s still creating a culture of fear in the organization undercurrent. And then, you know, i i like to look for things like, well, what’s, absenteeism and what’s you know what, what people are out when and oftentimes in organizations that don’t address issues, often times you’ll see when a critical incident is happening someone’s leaving in and you don’t have a replacement and they need to have their were covered or there’s a project due. People are on vacation that are responsible for that, and i’m like, well, what’s going on here so there’s a lack of ownership and i don’t think it’s, because someone doesn’t want to own it, it’s, that they may be afraid of the failure in the implications of that all sort of leading back to good management practices, right? Absolutely and delivering i think an employee will respect you if you deliver the truth, even the hard truth, even the hard truth, because it’s much easier to hear it and talk about what said than to try and figure out what you’re thinking and the implications for not having these hard discussions. As we’ve said, you’re right, it’s huge, it’s, huge dahna then if you’re not talking to an employee, is it because i’m an older worker? Is it because i’m my race is different than most people in this organization? Is it because i know this person and you don’t like that person? All of this may or may not be true, but it’s unnecessary worry if you’re just having the straight conversation of this is the behavior that i need from you or this isn’t working out let’s figure it out what’s the source of some of the laws that we’ve been alluding to around around hr, we’re not the people unnecessarily going to read. The code, but we talk about hr laws. Where are these? Where do we find them? Well, for benefits, there’s, a risa department of labor has a number of laws. Jorgen jail, employment, retirement income, security act, or, for some of those in benefits. Is everything rotten invented since adam insider tips. Now you have insider hr tips. You would not have heard that it’s been around since nineteen seventy four, but it governs. A lot of it created the pbgc pension benefit guaranty corp. It creates a lot of the structure around how qualified plans are handled. There’s department of labor, there’s federal law there’s different laws depending on the size of your organization. What about state laws to state laws? Absolutely. So, really the hr professional needs to know federal law and state law, state law governing the organism where the organization is incorporated, i guess you know and located. So for instance, if you’re incorporated in new york, but you have a california office, you still have to follow california law. Yeah, which is it’s very important because you can be significant differences, karen, in just a minute or so that we have left, i’d like to end positively let’s talk about however you khun some up for us motivating, retaining, hiring, keeping the good people it’s because, that’s, what hr really wants to do? Right? I think it’s really an employer, knowing what they need on to the extent they can project for the future, what type of person they need in the skillsets to really recruit for that and be committed to making that happen through, you know, mentoring employees and then working out performance improvement plans when necessary and when the employees succeeds to remove them from the plan and have you know a great working organization i love focusing on the positive. The performance improvement planning performance improvement review. My guest has been karen bradunas karen’s, a human resources consultant. Her last name is bell b r a d, u and a s and you could reach her at karen at k m bradunas dot com that’s your email. I want to thank karen very much for joining us in the studio today. Karen. Thank you. Thank you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have a facebook page, facebook, dot com slash tony martignetti non-profit radio you could go over there and, like us, the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff, line producer and owner of talking alternative broadcasting. Sam liebowitz. Our social media is by regina walton, doesn’t outstanding job on our facebook page and everywhere throughout the web. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio on talking alternative broadcasting talking alternative dot com. Join us next friday at one p m eastern e-giving ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. E-giving cubine. 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