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Special Episode: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

My Guest:

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld

The willingness and skills of people of color aren’t represented in leadership circles. That’s the main message coming out of Building Movement Project’s report, “Race To Lead Revisited.” We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMP’s co-director, Sean Thomas-Breitfeld.


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[00:01:48.24] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. This is a special episode of non profit radio to help you be the change around racism, people of color underrepresented in non profit leadership. That’s the main message coming out of building movement projects Report. Race to Lead Revisited We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMPs co director Sean Thomas Brett felled, responsive by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot CEO and by dot drives, raise more money, changed more lives for a free demo and free month. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show. Sean Thomas Bright Felled. He is co director at the Building Moving Building Movement Project. He previously worked in various roles at community change, developing training programs for grassroots leaders and worked in the communications and policy departments where he coordinated online and grassroots advocacy efforts and lobbied on a range of issues including immigration reform, transportation, equity and anti poverty programs. Building movement project is at building movement, or GE, and at B L. D. I N G movement. John Thomas Bright felt Welcome to non profit radio

[00:01:51.64] spk_0:
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:53.33] spk_1:
It’s supposed

[00:01:53.87] spk_0:
to be here with you.

[00:01:54.83] spk_1:
It’s good. It’s a pleasure. Thank you. So why don’t you start by describing the work at Building Movement Project?

[00:02:02.44] spk_0:
Sure, so building movement projects been around for over 20 years, and from our founding we’ve had three main areas of focus. One is what we call movement building, looking at how organizations collaborate, how nonprofit organizations can be part of movements for social change and social justice, and what it takes for organizations and non profit leaders to really be on the forefront of making big leading some big structural changes in our society. We’ve also looked at what we call a non profits and social change or service and social change because we think there is a particular role for human service organizations in bringing about structural and systemic change in our society and that that’s really important to support on. Also encourage organizations like that to get involved in advocacy. Listen to an uplift, the voice and on power of the communities that are being served, and then the third bucket of work has always focused on leadership, so recognizing that leading a nonprofit organization is a very hard job we’ve always looked at What does it take for leaders? But also, what does it take for non profit leadership? Thio really have aligned both the practices of leadership with the values that organizations hold. And so over the last several years, we’ve been particularly focused on issues of race and leadership in non profit organization. That’s what the race to lead work comes out of.

[00:03:41.14] spk_1:
Okay, right? And the This race to lead revisited report is really comparing a 2016 survey for the original race to lead with a 2019 survey for this report. Exactly.

[00:04:04.84] spk_0:
Yeah, so we surveyed people working in the nonprofit sector both in 2016 and 2019 on these issues of race and leadership. So this report race to lead revisited at some comparisons between the findings from 2016 and 2019 to see how the sector’s been evolving

[00:04:55.34] spk_1:
and you did have some new questions as well. We’ll have time to get to some of those, um, you talk about Well, first I got to say, I realize the contrast here I have long white hair and you have short, dark hair. We are. We know in the hair. We are. We’re not similar in hair. My God. Uh, yeah, OK, Sorry I couldn’t help notice. Um, you talk about we’re gonna have fun on non profit radio. I mean, it’s a serious subject, but we have fun nonetheless. So you talk about white advantage in the report versus white privilege? You mentioned white privilege once or twice, but predominantly. Talk about white advantage. What’s the What’s the difference there? What? What? What are you trying to say? A little different than the the more seems more common, you know, white privilege.

[00:05:05.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So what’s the term white advantage? What we’re trying to focus on is some of the structural advantages that accrue to non profit organizations based on, you know, multiple people in positions of power being white. So particularly thinking about the composition of boards and the composition of senior leadership teams. Um, because, you know, I think oftentimes the analysis is very individualistic, right? So, like, there’s an individual white person in the executive director role of the organization that only paints part of the picture on DSO we wanted to have a more complicated and nuanced analysis of what’s actually happened. An organization s O, that it became less about, like, the it one person at the top of organizational hierarchy. And think about it, uh, in a way that encompasses both the board leadership and senior staff.

[00:06:04.44] spk_1:
Okay. And then the structures as well, it seems thio less focused on an individual or individuals and mawr, uh, levers of power and processes policies.

[00:06:27.04] spk_0:
Exactly. And it also became a way thio understand and sort of unpack. Um, how, uh, sort of whiteness of organizations that, like in our sample, right, like, 45% of respondents work for organizations where both more than 75% of the board is white and more than 75% of staff and top leadership are white on. And, you know, I think that for me, that was actually somewhat startling in surprising um, And then we also saw that those organizations tend to have bigger budgets at least was being reported by the staff. Um but then, at the same time, we’re seeing that staff were reporting more negative experiences in those types of organizations compared to organizations with more diverse leadership on both the board and senior staff levels.

[00:07:29.64] spk_1:
And so the overall message that I got from this is that the power remains in boards and at the sea levels of nonprofits, and those are predominantly white. And that and that that really hasn’t changed from 2016 to 2019.

[00:07:35.24] spk_0:
Yeah, that hasn’t well, it’s hard to know because we actually didn’t ask the question in this way back in 2016. But I think that this, um, sort of puts our data in the context of some of the research that board source has done that shows that boards are overwhelmingly the majority of non profit boards are overwhelmingly white

[00:07:59.14] spk_1:
and also not reflecting the communities that they’re serving. Absolutely. Yeah,

[00:08:01.54] spk_0:
yeah, because I think what has happened is that the function of non profit boards very often is less a function of accountability to the organization’s constituency and mission on, because organizations often have a lot of responsibility for fundraising and raising the resource is for the organization to do its work. Um, that as a result of that sort of demand, organizations often have, um, prioritized recruiting from people who holds wealth in their communities and because of racial wealth gaps that tend to be white people

[00:08:41.04] spk_1:
on dhe. That’s recruiting for both leadership and volunteer position board with talking about boards and you make it very clear we’re talking about boards as well as C suite. You know, CEO, executive director level.

[00:08:54.14] spk_0:

[00:08:56.24] spk_1:
So let’s go into the three. I guess main conclusions that the report identifies first one is that things really haven’t changed that much. We’ve already alluded to it. Things haven’t changed that much in the three years.

[00:09:14.44] spk_0:
Yeah, and you know, I’m not sure how surprising that should be. Um, for our sector. You know, I think the change is often particularly in organizations. When we’re talking about organizations where we’re talking about the composition of the staff, that kind of change is incremental, right? I think that what has shifted is that, particularly in the last year is much more consciousness raising much more awareness on the part of organizations that these imbalances, these inequities exist and needs to be addressed. Um, but recognizing that there is a problem is not the same thing is taking action to address the problem.

[00:10:18.34] spk_1:
So you are seeing mawr alright, consciousness raising awareness. It seems like predominantly because of the diversity equity and inclusion work that Ah lot of organizations have done. But it’s just sort of, you know, I’m I gleaned from the reports, just sort of scratching the surface. I mean, ah, lot of it is trainings that raise awareness, but we’re not seeing much action flowing from that consciousness raising.

[00:10:23.84] spk_0:
Yeah, And so one example of the increased consciousness was that in both 2016 and 2019 we asked survey respondents what impact to their race had had on their career advancement. And, uh, for white respondents back in 2016 roughly half indicated that their race. They recognize that the race had a positive impact on their career advancement. So this sort of classic recognition of white privilege that increased to two thirds of the white sample in 29 so one from half to two thirds. So you know that is e think progress, right? In terms of like people having a recognition and understanding that white privileges riel and that it’s positively the benefits of that privilege are accruing to white people in nonprofit organization. Um however, the same question also revealed that back in 2016 a third roughly of people of color felt that their own race have negatively impacted their career advancement, and that then increased almost basically half off the sample of people of color in 2019. So the increased consciousness is both, you know, I think leading people to recognize the ways that they have been disadvantaged as well as for white people the way that they have been advantaged on DSO. You know, we’re still left with this challenge. This problem. That race is clearly having an impact on people’s advancement. And so it needs to be addressed in organizations in ways that I don’t think training is sufficient. Thio thick

[00:12:04.14] spk_1:
right? But you acknowledge consciousness, raising an awareness that that is the first step. But we have a lot more, a lot, a lot further to go. I mean, you know, it’s just

[00:12:14.61] spk_0:

[00:12:50.24] spk_1:
widely recognized that, you know, you don’t just do trainings a couple of trainings over six months and then check your box. You know d e. I is covered. Let’s move on, Thio. Let’s move on to the gala. You know it za process. It’s a journey, you know we’ve had other guests say the same thing. It takes time. Thio, uh, change the policies, the practices, the traditions Even if they’re not written down, that our advantage ing white folks over people of color, This takes time. But you gotta You’ve got to start somewhere.

[00:12:52.74] spk_0:
Yes, and I think consciousness raising is is an important and legitimate starting point.

[00:13:42.54] spk_1:
Right? And we’re just getting started, okay? It’s time for a break. Turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know this turn to is led by former journalists. So you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships, they’re gonna help you when you want to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners was an editor of the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know the non profit space they’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to P. O. C. Underrepresented in non profit leadership. Are you going to do this in three years again?

[00:13:45.94] spk_0:
It’s a very good question. You know, it’s hard

[00:13:48.15] spk_1:

[00:13:48.28] spk_0:
know, uh, in terms of, like, capacity funding, all of those things um, but yeah, I think that it seems worthwhile to keep revisiting thes issues, given the pace of change. Um, having been pretty slow just in the time that we’ve been collecting this data.

[00:14:24.14] spk_1:
All right, Um, anything else you want to say about you know, how the the findings from 2016 are pretty similar? Uh, yeah. Continue through to 2019 before we go on to the next. Well,

[00:14:24.49] spk_0:
sure. I think the reason that we felt like it was worth restating on pointing out the similarity in in terms of the findings between 2016 and 2019 was because, um, you know, from our perspective, it was really important to state very clearly to the sector. But there are people of color who are in the pipeline that the pipeline is not necessarily the problem. Uh, there’s, I think, different metaphors that people have used unpack and try to understand what the problem is of why we’re not seeing more representative leadership at the top levels of nonprofit organizations. And our view has just been that it’s not a pipeline issue per se. There are people of color who have the skills training credentials to be in those top roles, but they face racialized barriers to actually moving into those top jobs to being hired for those top jobs. And so we just felt like it was important to remind the sector of that finding, Um and sort of not lapse back into, ah narrative that, like we need to train more people of color because somehow people of color are not ready toe lead. People of color are ready to lead, but are often too often not given the opportunity.

[00:15:38.84] spk_1:
Not only have the skill sets already, but are willing to, in fact, what willing Thio want. Thio want to advance the leadership in greater numbers than the and the white respondents?

[00:15:51.94] spk_0:

[00:15:53.03] spk_1:
E guess. There’s narrative that, you know there’s a lack of interest in in people of color advancing toe leadership. But you’ve dashed that.

[00:16:01.74] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that part of the reason that’s important is because if people hold this mental model that who wants to be a leader is, uh, not a person of color, then they’re going to ignore the leadership potential of people of color in their organization.

[00:16:26.64] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s very convenient. Well, you know, the folks of color don’t really aspire to leadership. So no need to consider them. So Okay, so you’ve you’ve dashed that it’s not so in two respects. It’s not a pipeline issue. The skills air there and the willingness Is there a ZX? Well,

[00:16:36.24] spk_0:

[00:16:42.44] spk_1:
desire Thio advance and to lead. Okay, Um right. So remember your second main main conclusion, I guess, is there is white advantage. We were talking around it. Now we come right out and say there is white advantage in the nonprofit sector.

[00:18:59.24] spk_0:
There is. And, um, you know, I think that the the white advantage takes multiple forms, right? So I think that there have been over the last several months Mawr written about like, what happened? What’s called now? Philanthropic redlining, right, that organizations that are led by people of color, particularly black led organizations, are don’t get access to the same kind of resource is as the white led organizations focused on or serving in communities of color. And so there’s really interesting research both from organizations like Abssi A ZX, well as echoing green and bridge span that really dug into that funding disadvantage. And I think that our data also showed similar findings, particularly when it comes to, for instance, e. D s of color. And this was reported on Maurin a report from based on the 2016 data but E d s of color feeling like they don’t have, they don’t get grants of comparable size to peer organization or that they don’t have access Thio relationships with funders. And so those kinds of advantages in terms of like, who funders trust who funders will give bigger grants thio all of those benefits than accrue to white led organizations that then create this financial gap between organizations, nonprofit organizations based on who’s in positions of power in that institution. And so other ways that the white advantage showed up were in terms of the sort of composition of organizations and the greater comfort that white people, uh, seem tohave in. Those organizations, for instance, on questions like Do people feel like they have a voice in their organization for people working in white, dominant organizations were both the board and senior staff are more than 75% white. That’s where we saw the biggest gaps between people of color and whites in terms of their their agreement with that statement, right? And that gap decreases as you have mawr diverse organizations. And it’s also interesting to note that the average the mean increases. So both people of color and white respondents are more likely to say they have a. They have a voice in their organizations when they work for POC lead groups. So if you know, funders want to invest in organizations that are cultivating that kind of leader full ecosystem inside of their organization that, you know, make it possible for staff to feel like they have a voice and can help to set the direction for the organization, then you know foundations would be wise to really take a hard look at their own investment and the composition of organizations that they’ve been funding on. DSI. You know, like, are these organizations largely white run or are they POC lead on. And if there are largely white one, they should start investing in more organizations that are POC ledge.

[00:20:06.94] spk_1:
You identify five opportunities which we’ll get to, and one of those is put your money where your mouth is. You just say, put your, uh, you

[00:20:08.83] spk_0:
know, money

[00:20:54.04] spk_1:
where mouth is for sure. Yeah, I mean that’s a critical lever of power is funding for any anyone, whether it’s whether it’s corporate or non profit access to capital access to markets. Um, you know, what I thought was really interesting is, um, when you were identifying whether an organization was white lead or POC lead you, you chose as a threshold for white lead, whether more than 75% whether the Board of Leadership is more than 75% white. But then for for people of color lead, the threshold was just 50%. Is that because there just aren’t enough that are that are at the 75% level? So you had to reduce the yet to reduce the threshold to define it as person of color lead? Was that the reason?

[00:21:02.45] spk_0:
Yes. I mean, I think that it reflects the sort of composition of the sector, right. So 45% of respondents reported working for organizations where more than 75% of the board and senior staff were white on then it only 14% of respondents reporting working for organizations where it was over 50% of board and senior staff where people of color, you know, like it’s

[00:21:30.25] spk_1:
hard to have

[00:21:30.98] spk_0:
a comparison between Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:34.02] spk_1:
75% shoulder, 75% for PFC. Lead was gonna be too small a sample You

[00:21:40.57] spk_0:

[00:21:41.99] spk_1:
handful of Okay, uh, e suspected. Okay. Um, yeah. The experience was a little more about the experience. How people experience how people of color experience work in a in a white led organization.

[00:21:58.84] spk_0:
Well, I have to say, this was surprised, Not surprising. But it was interesting that the data was so clear, um, that the these racial gaps were so much larger for respondents working for white run organizations compared toa the POC led groups. And, um, you know, I think that it reflects what we’ve been hearing from the focus groups that we’ve been doing across the country in terms of the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color working in organizations that, um, you know, I think often feel somewhat alienating. And where people feel like they, um their leadership potential is not recognized or supported on dso. It was just a really, uh it was nice to have the data show, uh, and really reflect what we’ve been hearing anecdotally through focus groups and interviews around the country,

[00:22:59.54] spk_1:
You mentioned three organizations that have contributed to this work. One of them was bridge span. And then what were the other to save them. Save them a little slower theater, too.

[00:23:03.21] spk_0:
Sure. So a few months ago, bridge span and echoing green partnered on a report that looked at the going echoing green,

[00:23:14.57] spk_1:
echoing green

[00:24:50.44] spk_0:
green. Yeah, they partnered toe look at the funding that had accrued to organization organizational leaders who had gone through echoing Green’s programs. And so they were able to then really track and demonstrate that black leaders compared toa white leaders who had gone through the same kind of leadership development programs were getting very different levels of financial support on So that report came out at, you know, the earlier in the spring and last winter, an organization called Absi, which is the Organization for African Americans in philanthropy. On DSO, the acronym is a B E, and they put out a report looking at what they call the philanthropic redlining, this phenomenon of financial support from foundations accruing to white led organizations rather than to POC lead or black led organizations. So they use this terminology of redlining because it’s evocative of historical policy that led to very dramatic differences in terms of what sort of development and investment was possible, uh, in cities and neighborhoods based on this policy of redlining. And their point is that the imbalances, the inequities and where philanthropic dollars flow leads toa completely different prospects for organizations. And because some organizations grow because they get the funding and other organizations sort of. Whether on the bun

[00:25:06.34] spk_1:
isn’t the large majority of the smaller organizations I think you’re special was under a million dollars aren’t Isn’t the majority of those POC lead?

[00:25:08.44] spk_0:
It was, Yeah, it was striking to see that a much larger share of POC led organizations had budgets under a million

[00:25:30.34] spk_1:
dollars compared to, for instance, what led organizations? And, ah, large, large majority of those are a million dollars or under in funding or annual budget.

[00:25:31.18] spk_0:
Yes, okay, yeah, in terms of the annual budget

[00:26:27.24] spk_1:
annual budget. Okay, time for our last break. Dot drives drives engagement dot drives relationships. Dot drives walks you through donor engagement. It’s a tool that’s simple, affordable and focuses you on building donor relationships and trust. There’s a free demo, and for listeners a free first month. Go to the listener landing page at tony dot Emma slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for POC, underrepresented in non profit leadership. And then the third main point is that d I. Efforts are widespread, you say, and their effectiveness is uncertain, I would say, but but their effectiveness is uncertain. You’re a little more optimistic. Um, so, yeah, we were scratching the surface of this before, but you know, say same or about what’s being done, but what the limitations of it are.

[00:26:35.74] spk_0:
Well, first off, I think it’s important to acknowledge that three quarters of the sample reported that their organizations were doing something related to diversity equity inclusion. And so the ubiquity of D I efforts is, you know, I think good. And I think it’s a relatively new phenomenon, right? Like it’s become the topic at a lot of conferences over the past five years. And so all of which is to say that like organizations are getting started right now, Um, and maybe it’s long overdue, but this is a moment when organizations are getting started. I think that the challenge, the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color. And the younger staff of, you know, diverse diversity of younger staff is that I think for far too often it feels like organizational checklist. It feels like a sort of double. Organizations are saying the right things, but not actually changing anything about their recruitment practices or internal hiring and promotion strategy. So, yeah, I think that that is the the frustrating in that, like the ubiquity does not equal impact.

[00:28:43.94] spk_1:
I just want to remind listeners the report is called Race to Lead Revisited and you can get it at building movement dot or ge. All right, Sean, how do you feel about talking? Oh, there’s there’s a quote. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You You pepper the report with quotes in the margin on Dhe there. Ah, lot of them struck me that. I’m just going to read one that was probably half a dozen or so that, you know, sort of stopped me a little bit. But, uh, Pakistani woman, I don’t believe I’m taking us seriously in the workplace because I am a young woman of color. I often question things which doesn’t always go over well in majority white organizations. I’ve been used as a token brown person that za harsh reality Thio Thio read and for her to admit in a survey that, you know, I’m a token. Um So I thought the quotes were very evocative.

[00:28:55.84] spk_0:
Well, yeah, thanks. I mean, we we really think it’s important to balance the quantitative data with, you know, hundreds upon hundreds of right and responses from survey respondents and then also the focus groups that we do. We also gain a ton of insights from those conversations as well.

[00:29:16.34] spk_1:
You feel OK, go into the five opportunities or is there Is there mawr anything more you wanna bring out about the the report itself? Well, this is part of the report, but about the conclusions, conclusions and findings.

[00:29:40.34] spk_0:
Well, I guess I would just add in terms of the sort of d I and, uh, there’s the both the skepticism, but also the impact, right? I think that, um, there’s, you know, I think there’s a lot of skepticism about training, often times. But our data did show that for reserving respondents that reported that their organization trained on a variety of topics. They had more positive views on the impact of training on their organization. I think that just speaks to the importance and need for organizations have, like, multifaceted well around D. I initiatives so that training is not again, like just the check box on or sort of like. Okay, we did the training on white privilege, and so we’re sort of done that the training is a way of both sparking but also sustaining critical conversations in organizations. And that’s why it’s useful for organizations to do training repeatedly and on a variety of topics.

[00:30:59.64] spk_1:
Yeah, I think it was. It was forearm. Or if organizations had had training on four or more topics than both white, the white respondents and the people, people of color respondents, um, felt it was it was more advantageous. So they got there was more valuable training than if it was three or fewer. Could you just take off a couple of different topics that that folks should be looking to training? I mean, not not exhaustive, but you know, what are some of the some of the topics that people should be thinking about training wise?

[00:31:07.27] spk_0:
Sure, yeah. So eso in terms of the topics that we tested for in the survey people indicated that whether the organization had done training on white privileged, specifically whether they had done training on implicit bias because that is a concept that I think has gained mawr currency in the sector. Structural racism, for instance. Um, like do people think of racism as just about interpersonal dynamics or as or as the result of structural, um, and systemic forces that are being replicated by policy? A. ZX well, as implicitly, um, also racial trauma and healing. I think it’s a training topic that is becoming more popular and developed, so there’s a variety of topics, and I think the important thing is just for organizations to be open to having and doing training on a wide variety of topics.

[00:32:07.74] spk_1:
And again, the more topics, the more valuable people will feel. Three outcomes are, um So let’s go to the opportunities. Then why don’t you once you start us off?

[00:32:19.04] spk_0:

[00:32:20.17] spk_1:
I’m sure. Wait. I put you on the spot. Do you know that you may not have him off the top of your head? I have notes I haven’t written down, so I don’t need thio Put you on the spot memorized? I don’t know do you?

[00:32:32.07] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve got it.

[00:32:33.81] spk_1:
Okay. Okay.

[00:32:47.44] spk_0:
First in the first one was focused on structures as well as the experiences of staff. Right on DSO. You know, I think it’s pretty straightforward, but I think the the reason that we felt felt like it was really important toe lift up lived experience of staff working in organizations is because of what we saw in terms of those experience questions, right? Like, do people feel they have a voice in their organizations or not? Right. We also thought it was important to point out that policies have to actually be in force, right? Like organizations can’t just say this is our policy. But if people don’t see evidence that actual behavior and practices air changing as a result of the policy, um, then you know, I think there are real questions about whether that has real impact.

[00:33:22.08] spk_1:
There is, as

[00:33:23.32] spk_0:
we said earlier,

[00:33:35.84] spk_1:
you’re not walking the talk. Then if you have ah, policy on anti discrimination and someone says something derogatory and it doesn’t get dealt with according to the policy. Yeah, that’s a joke. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:33:39.94] spk_0:
Um, we also thought it was important toe, you know, really, focus on the funding dynamics, so particularly for grantmaking organizations. But put your money where, like your mouth is essentially right. Like there are increasing number of foundations, that air saying that the I is important. Ah, nde sort of signaling to their grantees. But those organizations need to take d. I seriously need to diversify their boards and staff things like that. But if the foundations have not taken similar steps, if the foundations have not to diversify their own or internal institution, or the foundations have not sort of critically examined their portfolio of grants like are there racial disparities in terms of what the amounts of funding, which organizations get access to funding that sort of thing? All of that is about foundations being very serious on reflect about being reflective in terms of their own commitments to D. I.

[00:35:24.04] spk_1:
And you have reflecting reflecting your community, which we touched on a little bit, that that was really striking, how you know it’s intuitive. I mean, I realized it, but to see the numbers of, um, Whitelighter organizations that are serving POC communities, eyes like two thirds or something, I think, um, it’s startling that leadership does not reflect the communities that they’re serving, and that includes the board. I mean, you you wanna have voices from the from the folks you’re serving contributing to your contributing to your you’re you’re major decisions a ZX the board should be doing

[00:35:28.54] spk_0:
Yeah, and again, like, as I said earlier, like, if organizations see the function of the board as about accountability as about setting the direction for the organization, then I think those organizations will see the need and value of having a board that is reflective of the community that’s being served. But if organizations have the sort of rationale for maintaining the board is to have access to people with wealth and connections, and there’s obvious reasons that organizations go that route. Then they’re going to stack. They’re bored with wealthy people in their communities on again because of racism. Those wealthy people are not likely to be people of color from the constituency that’s being served

[00:36:15.53] spk_1:
and your last one responsibility and results.

[00:36:26.79] spk_0:
Yeah, I think our sense was that organizations air pushed to track a lot of things nowadays and so, like what gets measured is often what then matters. And so our sense was that organizations should be very clear about what their commitments are going to be to race equity. And, um, you know, really track those commitments and then track the results of that come out of, like, what kind of organizational change strategies they pursue. And so, you know, if organizations they’re doing like an annual review or annual reports, are they reporting on their goals and objectives around race equity? That is one way to sort of ensure that organizations are staying on track on dhe, that its multiyear commitment

[00:37:13.58] spk_1:
it’s gonna take

[00:37:14.84] spk_0:
multiple years of change.

[00:37:38.03] spk_1:
Uh, you know, just pay attention. You can move the needle on things. If you start paying attention to them, you’re saying, if you measure it, you’ll you’ll you’ll be. You’ll be accountable to it. So high attention to it. If your If your statements say that you value racial equity, then measure it, hold yourself accountable and commit to those years of change.

[00:37:41.23] spk_0:
Yeah, and I think it’s even better if organizations do that. Make that accountability public, eso that they’re the sort of reporting is to their staff. It’s to their board. It’s to their community so that, like the statements of the organizations stand with. For instance, black lives matter, then backed up with organizations being able to say. And here’s how we lived into that commitment. Here are the things that we did over the past year that made that riel,

[00:38:10.82] spk_1:
Sean, anything, anything at all that we didn’t cover that you want to talk about.

[00:38:16.52] spk_0:
Um, no, I think we covered a lot.

[00:38:34.22] spk_1:
Okay, well, we did. You know, it’s not profit radio. We cover a lot of ground, but, you know, we can only scratch the surface. I mean, we cover a lot, but what you want to read the details, So just get the damn thing. Uh, the report again is, um race toe lead racing. No race race, the lead race, the lead be visiting

[00:38:38.27] spk_0:
the lead revisited.

[00:38:49.92] spk_1:
Used to lead you visited. You’ll find it at building movement or GE. That’s where you’ll find building movement project. And Sean Thomas Bright felled. Who is co director, right, Sean, Thank you very much. Thank you.

[00:38:52.07] spk_0:
Thanks so much for having me

[00:39:32.72] spk_1:
absolutely appreciate your time. Thank you. Reminder were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot Emma slash dot for a free demo and a free month, Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy. This music is by Scott Stein and with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for July 22, 2016: Training Choices & 2Q16 Fundraising Metrics

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Kevin Martone, Debra Askanase & Rene Swink: Training Choices

(From L-R) Kevin Martone, Debra Askanase & Rene Swink at 16NTC

Our panel from the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference reveals best practices for training: goals; who participates; successful formats; and working within culture. They also have suggestions for technology and leave you with resources. They are Kevin Martone, from the Harold Grinspoon Foundation; Debra Askanase, Community Organizer 2.0; and Rene Swink with Exceptional Children’s Assistance Center (ECAC).



Rob Mitchell: 2Q16 Fundraising Metrics

How did 2nd quarter fundraising go and what’s changed in the full year forecast since January? Atlas of Giving has the data and CEO Rob Mitchell shares all. Rob is with me after each quarter for analysis.



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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with a case of bourelly aosis if you infected me with the notion that you missed today’s show training choices, our panel from the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference reveals best practices for training goals who participates, successful formats and working within organization culture. They also have suggestions for technology and leave you with three sources. They are kevin martin from the harold grinspoon foundation. Deborah askanase, community organizer two point oh and renee swink with exceptional children’s assistance center and two q sixteen fund-raising results. How did second quarter fund-raising go and what’s changed in the full year forecast since january? Atlas of giving has the data and ceo rob mitchell shares at all. Rob is with me at the end of each quarter for analysis. I’m tony steak too three hundredth show next week, we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com here is the panel, kevin martone, deborah askanase and renee swink from ntcdinosaur lier. This year welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference this is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose, california, at the convention center. My guests are kevin martone, deborah askanase and renee swink. We will meet them very shortly. Right now i have tio take a moment to acknowledge and recognize the swag item for this interview which is from charity dynamics. You have a combination is very well done. Combination sunscreen and lip balm. So you either apply it with this roller on your lips or you take this off and it’s ah it’s a sunscreen applicator that’s a combined and then if those to fail you then cherry dynamics has alot in travel size it’s, hard to get i have never seen alot in travel size so i’m taking this one home with me and this joins our our our swag pile for the day oh, that’s! What? That is it’s. Impressive phone. All right. Okay. Let’s, meet let’s. Meet the panel here. Kevin martone is kevin is the technology program manager for a harold grinspoon foundation. Seated in the middle is debra askanase she’s founder and digital engagement strategist. At community organizer two point oh, and renee swink is technical assistance coordinator at kevin deborah rene. Welcome, thank you, thank you, thank you, non-profit radio pleasure. All right, your session topic was the future of capacity building is collaborative, learning communities, collaborative and cohorts. Okay, so we’re ah, we’re applying. Our learning models are learning model our best process to these different structures, these distant, collaborative structures that right. Okay, i agree with that way. Well, my thanks to rene for explain that to me before that. Before that, like, i turned down because i was a little trouble with the description, but i got it. So why don’t we talk first about what a successful training process is? And then we’ll talk about the different. Form of formats that we can fit into. So makes sense. All right. Makes pretty professional trainers. Is that right? Are you asleep? Part of our in-kind department. Full time job. Okay, your bona fide hyre. Okay. Well, let’s, start with deborah askanase because i’ve known you the longest. Thanks. So what do you think the essential elements are of training? And how do you how do you do it? Best at community organizer two point zero. So there’s a couple of elements that are really important to think about the first thing when you’re designing a training is thinking about the goals. You always start with the goals. What is it that is going to increase capacity and help people to get there to increase their capacity? Because that’s, the whole point of training, and renee khun speak very eloquently about that pay goals goal. Then you think about who needs to be at the table so many times training so designed in the right people aren’t at the table and it’s really important based on your goals. What? What segment of your audience should be there? What segment of your participants does management need to be at the table. Do board members need to be at the table? It’s not a the third thing that you want to think about our learning elements. So how do people learn? And what elements do you want to bring into that so that they can best? What do that mean? Learning elements? Little jargon. E? You know, he’s, john, you know i have jargon. I want them ahead of time. I said, yeah, he’s real big on joining. Well, yeah. You warn you warn them and you’re the one who’s in it. Okay, you know what? The learning elements? What does that mean? So that’s thinking about? Well, when you take any kind of training or you goto workshop procession, you leave and you think, oh, i really learned because these pieces were part of it. So it’s often it’s, participatory, it’s, collaborative there’s, some sort of exercise where you integrated in there’s pierre, learning that takes place and there’s actually a few. If you take our slides, which are in the collaborative notes, you’ll see we kind of list out you could choose what we’re gonna work best for your session that will meet your goals. And then finally, after you thinking aboutthe learning elements then you think about okay who’s, the student and who’s the teacher here. Is it something where it’s going to be best done by pierre learning where there’s no official trainer, facilitator. But we all learn from each other’s expertise or there’s somebody who facilitates with some co learning from the students? This is the format now we’re talking about right? So you think about who’s the student who’s the teacher, a piece of it, and then finally think about and this is really important, something we came to when we were designing this the cultural elements so many times we designed trainings and we don’t think about what’s the culture of the organization, who it’s being the training is being created for and what’s the culture of the people who are attending the training, and all of us have stories about what happens when you don’t understand the culture or how you bring the culture in that’s so important and we actually have culture cards will come will come to those i i’m happy to pass it on the other side. Okay, now. So we just have about twenty five point six minutes together. So and you had at ninety minutes and plus, on top of all the top of the model, uh, we have to talk about our different formats. Communities, collaborative sze and cohorts, right? Of course. I appreciate that because i like a liberation jargon jail. Uh, i send live listener love on every show i do podcast pleasantries for our podcast ten thousand podcast listeners i do affiliate affections for the am and fm stations that are part of the show. I’ve told you. Take to sew a pattern kevin’s going to kill me if i don’t mention there’s also technical stuff to think about like how did you use technology to do the training? Alright way. But that’s like last let’s say we could get teo let’s. Let’s take on each of these elements. But we have to do it a little quicker than you did it in the ninety minute session. All right, so you deferred to rene for goals. So, rene, what about think about goals in training? Well, yeah. I mean, you always want to think about what is it? What is it you want to accomplish? But you also need to look at where our people are with their present levels, what is it? They don’t know? Because if you go in thinking, oh, i think everybody needs to learn this, and if you’re not really aware of what’s going on in your audience, they may go way already know that so we just wasted your time. So really looking at that what you’re running and we really want to increase people’s knowledge, their skills and ultimately they go out and end up doing it, and so they become active learners and active doers. So how do we be good at assessing with the goals ought to be so we’re not we’re not over the heads of the audience, nor are we telling them things that they’ve already learned they already know well, you know, when ideally it’s great. If you are able teo non-profit radio, we deal with the rto so we’ll deal with the ideal and unlimited budgets, right? Exactly. So really it’s great is if you khun survey people ahead of time, do a needs assessment. Really? Hopefully you have a relationship with your audience and you can do that. But even when all of that happens a lot of times, you just have to be really flexible and be able to pivot and kind of go and asking those questions, okay, who’s in the room, and if you have surprised people, you can go oops, we’re going to adjust, we pivoted during ourselves, way did. Okay, okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Duitz who should be in it? Let’s get kevin in the conversation? Sure, who should be participating in this training so so never hinted at it, but there’s, i guess i should say it differently. I’m sorry i’m making it sound like it’s, same for everything. How do you determine who should participate in the training that you are planning, right? And there’s often two parts there’s the people who are actually you’re learning like we’re going to be it you around or whatever the training is, we’re going to be throughout and then never hinted at the the executives, the people decision makers at whatever organization that people are from making sure they have buy-in so, for example, i run this year round communications training and it’s for young communications staff to help them with their overall communication skills around planning i’m that kind of thing, but at the first session that we do, we require that their executive director or a decision maker at that organization come with them so that they can work together to come up with their overall goals, that communication goals at the organization, their overall goals so that it drives what the student is. Doing the entire year and we feel it’s important because if they’re not willing to come to that first session and be part of that it’s it’s not likely that they’re going to buy into change that happens through the course, okay? And can we talk a little more generally about how to determine who should be a participant? Well, i mean, in the training that i’ve run, it’s it’s usually relatives usually clear from the golden goals. So for us, for that communications training it’s to help each of these organizations have better communicate outreach to their stakeholders, and so we’re pinpointing the communications person director, right? Right, exactly. Okay. All right. So it should be apparent from the goals with goals should drive who belongs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. All right, deborah arms. We’re back to you for learning elements. All right? Well, you really only you pretty much have been described with the learning elements are going to me. It’s and i was a non professional trainer, so i’m the neal fight. I’m the non bona fide on the those on the path, but i’m not on the panel, so i’m not qualified to me. It’s just like how we’re gonna do this what’s going to be? How are we going? What’s our methodology going b but you said he’s going to be pure learning practice, role play. My voice just cracked like i’m fourteen, i’m just puberty neo-sage still awkward, but i missed that part of some well, okay, so we talked about learning elements that people learn by integrating it. And so it’s, really a question of for your training and for your audience. What ways are creative and perhaps applicability for people to really put into practice what they’re learning and and that was a collaborative learning. Okay, okay. Let’s give you another shot, then. So format. What? What? So there’s a different okay, what were we going to say about form out? How are we diving into this little deeper? And i called it format. It came after learning elements. Then you were thinking about the way we’re thinking about this here. This’s your culture card. You know we’ve got we’ve got the format cods for matter-ness wait. Let’s not be unkind. Not probably right? I’m going to remain where you gonna be? All right. One says one primary trainer. When that no. Official facilitator and one says facilitator plus koegler learning and these areas shaded in blue and here they are for our video audience. Okay, so i’ll let you speak through them. Sure. As part of the session, we handed these out and had groups practice. Know why i had to feel like i don’t know what you did a great job by awkwardness. I told you, i never really imagined i could graduate from here. You have a law degree, but i never graduated puberty. All right, um, so during the training we handed these out had people kind of we’re like, okay? And your session there’s only one primary trainer. And if if that’s the right thing to meet the goals and that’s what’s known as a traditional training right. But when we get into the jargon jail of the collaborative and the cohorts in the communities something where there’s no official trainer and people are learning from each other that’s called a learning community that sound like anarchy. It isthe i’ve actually participated in one and helped design one. And i think they’re fabulous not. And it can be as long as it if it’s not intentional it needs to be intentional goal right now. Is that really okay? All right, that’s a possibility. And then there’s elearning collaborative, which is more along the lines of what you do, kevin, and what what you do, rene as well and that’s where there’s a facilitator who sort of guides the overall vision but there’s a lot of peer learning that happens where people are working in groups of twos and skillsets that’s a skill that’s a really maybe an art, actually, to be a successful facilitator, i’ve been in some programs with mediocre facilitators and like, they don’t set the rules. Well, you know, they’re like too dictatorial about the rules. Don’t people participating with the ground rules are theyjust dictate them and it goes downhill from there? Yeah, like nobody feels by boat and they feel like dictated to choose card number one one primary trainer. Exactly what? You’re supposed to be the facilitator. Exactly. Okay, but i haven’t only been in crummy ones, but i’m thinking of becoming well. We did talk about crummy one or we started with what’s. The worst training you have ever been in. Yeah, i think it’s hard to be a good facilitator, i think it’s a lot of practice. Yeah. Is that okay? Yeah. All right. So that’s, the way we say that we covered format pretty well down with that. I think we’re all right. The cultural element you want to just going down the line. Get now that’s where the culture courts because it was fun this week. A lot of fun because actually in the training, folks were given a scenario of something. So we gave them a scenario of a training they had to develop, so they didn’t have to think about that. And then when we dealt the cards out, then that made them really start to apply what we hoped. Where the elements of a good training so the culture cards we passed out, they’re in purple for those folks that aren’t on video and see this. But basically, what if one of your training participant’s death what do you d’oh that’s oneaccord says a training personally handed that car? Yes, exactly. Managing management and staff they supervise are in the same training, management and the staff they supervisor in the same training. Yes, kevin said, but the first right? Right, you’re you’re that’s mandatory. For you, the first for the first time, a man, kevin, you get you also deal with that in a very interesting way with the where? Management’s not in the super secret group that only the trainees. Aaron. Right, that’s. True. Right, then we’ll spend the whole day together. Well, they spend that first day, but then the rest of the year oh, yeah, the participants are allowed to have a safe space where they can bring up issues that kind of thing and not have it first session has to be with management, right? And the whole rest of the year is with the right, the communications director. Right? Right. We’ll bring up a lot more a lot other different issues. If they’re they’re together the whole time, certainly very hard can’t come up. Right? Like i’m understaffed and under resourced. My ceo doesn’t hear me. You’re going to many administrative things that take me away from my communications task, right? I interviewed. Well, we had a communications panel yesterday. Yeah, like miller was great. Then there were two others also, and i got an earful about potential problems. Exact locations, directors face it could be you have spanish. And english speakers and you have the priority is to use only one language. Okay. That’s a tough one? Yes, it is. Or the culture of the organization failure is frowned upon. They don’t allow innovation. Well, they don’t encourage and the innovation and risk exactly was frowned upon, right? And then if then you no staffer required well, that really to attend the court set staff says staff are required. Brandraise yeah, and mix of skills and levels and experience. So all of these things, these culture cards really can cause a really can either be amazing and opportunities for growth and collaboration. Or they can be cluster. You know what the’s a cards are? Index cards size. I’d say they’re all color coded the culture cards or purple and the format cards were blue and we have some green ones over there. What with all that? Absolutely do those and these were basically show show show kapin buy-in that basically location because sometimes organizations khun do them in person or sometimes people have remote staff and so we really mixed it up is, you know, either entirely remote or in person or a combination entirely in person remote. And in person or entirely remote. Okay, location. That’s going to impact? Uh, okay, kevin, make this explicit. How does location make a difference? Why? Why is that important? Well, especially for all right, it’s a plan that was especially for these trainings where we’re trying to make a collaborative where we’re trying to build not only content, you know, knowledge in the participants, but also appear network if it’s all virtual, you really have to work hard to make those connections. So you know whether it’s, you know, in person, you can have them go up for coffee and they can connect much easier, right? Right, exactly. And so, you know, you might use, and this is where sometimes technology can come in, like using google plus hangouts where its visual or some other kind of video conferencing so people can talk to each other, breaking the group up into smaller groups and having discussions. So they’re talking about each other’s issues in their homework, and you know what they’re working on. And then there’s also just techniques you can do so. One of my colleagues, laurie herrick, does a great job of doing this and her fund-raising training. Where she asked questions in her webinars, which well, you know, we all know what weapons could be painful and very dry, but she’ll ask a question and just stop and there’s a lot of awkward silence, especially at the beginning of these trainings. And i know for me, my instinct is to jump in and, like, give the answer right toe as a training. Like, i i kind of know what i want, but she really steps back and lets them talk. And so that’s the kind of thing unless them across talk so that they’re working with each other, building that pier collaboration and connecting with each other. So there’s a lot of different techniques you can do that you might need if its remote versus being in person. Okay. Thank you. All right. I feel like we could move now to our voice cracked again thursday. Moved now, tio. All right, so these different formats that we’re going to apply this to the learning communities, the collaborative tze and the cohorts. Yes. We want to have a collaborative training for our capacity building cohort. Theo, i’m striking. Jorgen jorgen session collaborative class. Okay, collaborative capacity bilich okay. So what is a who wants to take this? Who? What is a learning community? I’ll take that one off. Okay? So elearning community is that one that you called possible anarchy where there is no official facilitator in the community itself decides what they wanna learn in this eye. How do we know walking into that thing? That this is going to be valuable to me? That is what i’m paid to be here. I don’t even know what i’m walking into. Well, these air more than anything done from the community, not as a paid trainer. There’s no paid trainer. The community teaches itself. So think of something like where you a community of practice like ten group gets together. Exactly. But it’s a little more intentional around. We’re trying tto learn from each other and designing the learning experience together. All right, this is not a paid training that i’m attending at a hotel for a weekend or something. Most likely. Okay, thank you. Rights here. And i’m the neophyte eyes these basic questions. So this is where the community intentionally decides what it wants to learn. An example would be one that i have participated in. And helped design for the faculty at marlborough college grad school, where we realized we all had a lot to learn from each other and we’re so busy teaching we didn’t have time to understand the value of what everyone could contribute. Where is marlborough college? It is located. The roger program is in brattleboro from and it’s ah graduate program for non-profit management and i teach social media for social change. Someone else teaches environmental justice someone else teaches, you know, all kinds of things finance, whatever, and we decided to come together as a learning community, and for a hour and a half once a month, someone would share three questions that were fundamental to think about what they teach in the community. It wasn’t just that say i would share a critical question about social media wasn’t that i’m giving my knowledge is that we’re having a conversation where were all learning together about this piece, and then we decided talks about talk about goals, we decide it was a cultural value that no one should have more information than the other, so any supplemental readings were handed out afterward so that we all learn together at the same time. And then there was afterwards supplemental reading to continue the conversation. So that’s an example. Okay. Okay. That’s. Ah, learning community right now. That’s an ongoing you doing in that format that’s. The form that we used last year. Now another learning community starting up this year. Okay. All right. Who wants to take on collaborative sze what’s a collaborative grayce that’s a really good question. I think they weave ultimately, we decided collaborative cohort waiting in the session to go really well with the reason we did that is because he s deborah’s looking at me as we were having these conversations and we were like, going okay, well, what is the definition of a collaborative? And what is the definition? And really they end up bleeding over to each other. They have lots of the same characteristics. So bottom line is it really doesn’t matter what you call yourself. As long as you are incorporating all of these learning elements and you are meeting the needs of either yourself like a learning community or the end person, the participant and you are increasing their capacity. Then we’ve done exactly what we have set out to. Dio give me a collaborative ako or whatever they call it. All right. So in other words, this session topic is fragile. That’s what i’m saying for a little bit weird that you were good with that thing misleading at best. Absolutely likely fraudulent. What? We needed to get you in the door somehow. Right? Right. Generation. You just want to win the election either because there were six hundred seminar top six hundred workshop possibilities. And you wanted to make the you got exactly what you got. You got to do what you gotta do. I will say that in all fairness, one of the beautiful things is that kevin and i proposed the topic and there was another person who was going to do with us who wasn’t able to make it. And then we brought in rene. We brought in andrea. And as we’re all understanding each other’s expertise and how we approach training the way that we decided teo, execute on it, change slightly and that’s why it’s a little odd that’s all that’s, all very collaborative because we have pamphlets. Collaborative way. Did you like it? If it’s not a georgia or in the liberation? Perfect pivot. Oh, good. Neo-sage he’s. Quick friday. Alright. Okay. How about ah, about a cohort? Is there something legitimate and coordinate is actually doing? If you want to talk about how you do cohorts well, i was going to say, well, yeah, i do a cool a half. Yeah, i talk for a living. Not like you, tony, but we do a co wart two of our spanish speaking staff that are tend to be very isolated in our centers are non-profits and so we really wanted to build a cohort that they knew that they could rely on themselves and in build that community while also being a cohort, but also respecting the fact that everything needed to be in spanish for them as well. So it ended up being a combination of a cohort and a learning community at the same time. And it turned out really nicely that’s why we say it meets the goals that we hear. Exactly. Okay, we need a couple more minutes because we could talk for everybody training haven’t talks about technology beautiful and how it supports our way. We have a couple minutes i’d like to make so i mean the first thing the stresses and we talked about this in the session, it was the last thing we talked about all the other stuff we’ve already talked about it much more important. Technology is just a tool to help you reach those goals to help your participants get what they’re supposed to get out of the course. But, you know, we talked about some of the technology’s already, so you know, whether it’s, google plus hangouts to whether, if it’s it’s remote, the private facebook group, i think, never mentioned which was is a place that we use for the participants to share their homework, to have other conversations privately away from their management. You know, what were some other technologies we talked way we even use some that some people like we use big tent, which is just a free, big, tanked and yes, and it’s, just a free online where you can have forum and post documents? Eso which like some people, that we just looked upon it, but it works for our community. I know another cohort that uses they actually bookmark and ever note, and they have a collaborative notebook where they they fill in. With ideas they have in between. The actual learning session site is called ever note. Ever note? Yes, black back-up because it has been mentioned in some other interview. Slack is known for it was mentioned. I thought for project management. You can use it for your basically twisted. However you like. Okay? Yeah. Okay. And then they listed webinar technology. So everything from adobe to webex too joined on me. Joined up mi young’s, jing’s aaron, i love personally j r g i n g i just isa use that for screen jobs. Wellbeing, street raptures. But if you are trying to teach something really specific, it’s a great way to post it and for people to use it. So it is a way we use it a lot in our community. Yeah, exactly. Just joking. It’s j i m j i just yeah, yeah. Okay. Yes. I’m slow in the morning before. All right, all right, all right. So this is very interesting. So actually have something in twenty five, twenty six minutes that you know, these these formats, aside from being fraudulent in the title, they really they are. We never sharing. Really? They really are not. Really or not the key? I mean, they they blend together, there could be a milan jj of many and it doesn’t really matter what they’re called. As long as the training is meeting the needs and the goals of the of the i’m not even sure called trainees, but thrice already catching on e i never trainees was not right and help us eliminate jargon. I mean it’s always a word fraudulent. We’re like we’re done with this. Thank you. Alright, the they are kevin martin and he is the technology program manager at the harold grinspoon foundation and in the middle. Deborah askanase, founder and digital engagement strategist. Community organizer two point oh, and renee swink, technical assistance coordinator at the c a c thank you so much. Thank you. Fun. Yes, stony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc. Thank you for being with us. Two q sixteen fund-raising results with rob mitchell coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got mohr free research for you. Just released yesterday. A new report optimized your donor pipeline. You need to raise more money. That means you need a strong pipeline of potential donors or prospects. Whichever you prefer to call. Them coming in coming in your door. This report is to help you build and retain and optimize that pipeline coming in it’s free like all their researches it’s again optimized your donor pipeline. You’ll find it at pursuing dot com and click resource is and i’m just amazed at how much they offer for free lots of webinars that are in fact, one of their weapon. Our guests is eyes going to be a guest on non-profit radio coming up talking about disney? What? What he learned from disney and applies in non-profit fund-raising but any case, the free stuff, the free knowledge that pursuing shares is generous, remarkable. Take advantage of it. Get thea, optimize your donor pipeline report now for tony’s take two, three hundred show next week it is the sixth anniversary of non-profit radio. This is the two hundred ninety ninth show and next week three hundred scott stein. You know him because i credit him at the end of every show. He’s going to live in the studio with his eighty eight he’s going to play the song claire meyer, half our creative producer is going to be in the studio from north carolina. We’ve got giveaways, non-profit radio fact or fiction game show lots going on. We’re going periscope it so you could join us on joining the periscope through twitter um, three hundred show next week. There’s a video on it at tony martignetti dot com says a little more, but the takeaway is next week three hundred show be here, that is tony’s take two. I hope that was emphatic enough. I’m concerned it may not have been rob mitchell is with us. You know him? He’s, the ceo of atlas of giving, which is the only monthly forecast and measurement of charitable giving by sector source and state in the u s they’re an atlas of giving dot com. Rob is at ah, philanthropy man or as i like to say at philantech roman rob mitchell, our resident roman welcome back. Hey, tony it’s. Good to be back. Pleasure to have you were talking about the second quarter of sixteen what’s the what’s, the headline for the mid year. Well, the midyear headline. I wish i had better news for you, tony, but e-giving has been essentially flat for the first half of two thousand sixteen. We’ve had a gain. Of less than one percent for total giving, which amounts to two hundred forty one point to a billion dollars. Okay, and what’s the percentage it’s actually point nine percent. So just okay, so just slightly under one percent gain. Okay? Um yes, all right. And yeah, that there there are some. There are some reasons for this. There also are some speculative reasons for this. But i will tell you that on dh this is not a good sign. June giving decreased i’m slightly from may for a total of forty points seven. Two billion. Now that was just it was virtually flat. But dahna we haven’t observed that for several years. In fact, we haven’t observed that kind of flatness since two thousand. Alright, since two thousand ten you’re saying there hasn’t been a six month period of this degree of flatness. Is that right? That’s? Correct. Okay, so it’s been six years are two thousand ten sort of emerging starting to emerge from the recession. All right, well, we had a we had a great emergence from the recession. Metoo apart from what other estimators have said are you know the atlas of giving consist of sixty. Five separate algorithms where we we have identified what factors are involved in giving and their relatives strings by sector source and st s o um, yeah, this is this is, uh this is a a bit of a different year. We’ve been on the rise since, um, since really two thousand nine and, um, this year’s very different donors are very uncertain right now. They’re uncertain about the economy, they’re uncertain about the stock market, and as all of us know, the stock market has had significant volatility this year, there is the continuing fear of rising interest rates. Um then there’s the election and the outcome of the election is huge because people are there sitting on the donor’s air sitting on the sidelines there they’re not. They’re not drawing back, but they’re also not increasing because they’re wondering about how the outcome of the election is going to affect them on taxes, on their income, on social security, on student loans and other things. Okay, rob, can you speak to where where things stood back four years ago? Ah, this period in two thousand twelve, right before an election. I don’t have that information and, you know okay, okay. I’m just wondering what what generally election is, whether this is an unusual election cycle for for fund-raising it i believe that it is an unusual election cycle. I mean, we’ve got two candidates who had who have the highest disapproval rate that we’ve ever had in history. Well, i know it’s an unusual election, it’s certainly that i’m wondering if if the impact on fund-raising is different than it has been in the past. That’s all right, we can. We’re going to you’re going to come back. What? After where? We know ah september, right? So we can we can still we could talk more about that in after the third quarter. Sure. Okay. Okay. We could compare maybe just two thousand twelve and maybe even two thousand eight. Okay, no problem. Let’s, talk a little about semente. Vigia yl. Well, actually, now, before we move on to different how different types of charities are faring so far, let’s talk a little more about some of this uncertainty. Another thing i’m thinking is, what about oil prices? Oil prices being so low. That’s gonna have an impact in our energy producing states. It does. And in our energy producing states and i live in one of those, which is texas, and i actually have a business which has been negatively affected by the downturn in oil prices and so that’s the bad news. So states like texas, north dakota, wyoming, pennsylvania um, those states that were flourishing before the oil, the oriole price shut down are having a difficult time. Yeah, we’re moving away. They’re finding other jobs and so forth. But there’s there’s a good side to this. The good side to this is that gasoline prices no are lower as a result, and therefore there is more disposable income for most of the country and that that is reflected not only in gasoline prices but in i couldn’t believe this. But i just just a couple of weeks ago, i was able to fly my daughter from chicago to san antonio for forty five dollars. Yeah, and that is a direct reflection of oil of the low price of oil, right? So it’s a ying and yang sort of thing. Yes, the states that our oil dependent are having a difficult time. But i would say for the overall charitable giving economy what’s happened in oil prices is a very positive thing. Okay, okay. By the way, i would argue that new york state and especially the capital, albany, is a major producer of gas. But that’s that’s a political statement i turned out to be trying to be political on the welsh. I don’t know, maybe it’s true in a lot of steak kapin had in the in the this week in the in the convention and next in next week’s convention. I don’t know that there can be more gas. There was a lot of gas coming out of those that’s. True too. Um all right, that’s, the extent of our political commentary are interesting. All right, so you think the low oil prices are generally generally a positive, generally a positive, because discretionary income is the key to charitable giving to the terrible giving economy means seventy four percent. Seventy four percent of all guests are made by individuals, right? So when individuals have more money available to them, they will give more, okay and when, when things like interest rates, inflation, oil prices or get in this case, gasoline prices or or a few loyal prices for heating in the winter. Put pressure on them. They have less money to give, and seventy four percent of the economy is given by individual giving. Yeah, and that’s that’s reflected in some of the other numbers that you you report for the for the midyear that grants from donor advised funds are up significantly. Foundation grants are up significantly. But we’re still only see a nine tenths of a percent increase, because three quarters of the giving comes from people. Exactly. In fact, if you look at as i look at the sectors, a zai look, a e-giving by sectors. You know, one of the sector that is the most affected by individual giving it’s church e-giving and it is down one point, one percent that’s pretty for me. That’s pretty typical when we you and i have been talking about this every time you’re on and we’re covering this church giving has been declining about one percent each year. For what, three, four years? Something like that. It has been because and it’s a it’s a combination of factors. But it has a lot to do with there’s less there’s, less participation on the part of americans and church attendance in church. Joining or membership and and then churches also are like large charities. They take it on the chin when unemployment is high. Now i understand unemployment is not officially is not high right now, but we’ve had a tremendous number of people drop out of even looking for a job and that’s that’s making an impact to and but you compare that with okay, so that’s the largest sector that that that sector accounts for a third of the charitable giving economy. Yes, and it is declining, and we expect that it will continue to decline, but then you look at the sector that is performing the best, which is the environmental sector, and there are almost four percent. The problem is it’s great, that they’re at four percent, but they’re the smallest sector. Yeah, they’re a tiny piece of the pie. What what’s what’s there, what’s there, taking the in the in the overall, giving the percentage wise. What is the environment account for the environment accounts for two percent? Okay, rod, we gotta go out for a break. When we come back, you and i’ll keep talking, and i know everybody’s going to stay with us. Plus, we got live. Listen, love coming up. Don’t want to miss the loveless term of stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they are levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We got to do the live love, you know, the live love has got to go out to st louis missouri college station, texas while we’re talking about texas um, maybe that’s rob. Rob, is that you listening earlier? You in college station? I am not in kottler enough. Okay, then that someone else and there’s live love going out to that person. Also fort worth, texas live love going out there. And then, uh, let’s go abroad. We got verburg, netherlands. Welcome, netherlands live listener love to you. I don’t think you’ve been with us before. If you have it’s not too common. Come back. We’ve got many mean colombia. We’ve got seoul, south korea. Where? Of course i want to say come za ham, nida and tokyo, japan konnichiwa, beijing china knee how always so reliable. Unbelievable! The asian connection between seoul, beijing and tokyo. Such reliable listeners live love to you what comes after the live love it’s got to be the podcast pleasantries, you know i mean that’s. A rhetorical question pleasantries out to the many, many thousands of people listening on whatever device whatever time, whatever activity you are doing at this moment. Are you on a treadmill? Are you in a car? Are you painting the side of your house? So you’re washing your dishes pleasantries to you, our podcast audience, and after that comes the affiliate affections. You can’t have live list of loving podcast presences with out affiliate affections it’s just not done. I couldn’t i couldn’t conceive of it. Our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Stations ranging from oh upstate new york to washington state, down tto oregon and california and philadelphia area well, that’s actually not filled out buy-in castor county area. Those are the ones that come to mind all affections to all and more. There are other stations out there all our affiliate station listeners. Rob mitchell. Thank you for that indulgence while i greet and thank are many of the songs i have one question for you. Tony. Yes? Are you the guy playing the piano for the intro music? No. That’s. That’s, scott steinar music is by scott stein. That is fantastic. That well, if you listen live well, if you listen to next week’s show live or archive or affiliate you’ll hear scott performed the entire song, which is cheap red wine he’s going he’s going to be in the studio with his eighty eight and he’s going to play a song for us so well, i think he should change in the name tio two buck chuck, what the hell is that? Well, if you don’t know about trader joe’s too, but check is the is the trader joe’s economy wine. So when you’re talking about keeper at wine talking about two bucks two buck chuck. Okay, theo, this song, i think, was composed before trader joe’s was was popular. I don’t know before they were before they were even existed, but ah, it’s it’s several years old, but the tune caught my ear and we’re not changing to two buck chuck hyre that’s good to know that you’re a nino file. You like your wine? Yeah, well, actually, i i actually am a, um i have an interest in a central coast winery, so yes, in a way, i am andina file central coast of california. Yeah, yes. You want to shout out the winery? Um, the name of the wine group is called the inter p wine group. And our award winning lines are called double bond. Double bond. Ok, i’ll check it out from the central coast. All right. And very interested. See what you learned on non-profit radio it’s remarkable. The ceo of us of giving has an interest in a double bond wines and and the entropy wine group. You’re not going. You’re not going to capture that. And other media outlets. You just not. All right. That’s, enough navel gazing and backslapping. So let’s talk about, um, britain’s exit from the european union and the european common market. You are very concerned about that. Yes, i am. Okay, let’s, move on. How about a little fulfilling some detail? Okay, well, the first thing i’ll tell you is that if you go on atlas of e-giving dot com today and pull up the current monthly report, which is through june it’s the mid year report, it will show that we are projecting that e-giving well, the giving your will finish two point one percent higher than two thousand fifteen. Now. That’s. Good news. Any increase in giving as good news? Yeah. Blood. It is slightly lower than our original forecast back in january of two. Point. Six percent. But here’s. My concern. The exit of the brits from the from the u is goingto have some negative effects, which are not going to be immediately apparent. But could but will, up here over the next six months and here’s some of the things to look for. What? The effect of of the brits leaving the eu means that the the u s dollar is, is that a high and that’s great if you’re traveling across the world? Okay, wait, wait, i can’t let you get away. Hold on, i can’t worldwide trade that’s a very bad okay, hold on, hold on. What about rob? Rob mitchell trompeter financial markets slow the economy and i would say that the financial markets that we’re in now could be characterized as volatile. I mean, one day we’re, uh i’m watching my portfolio when they were up when they were down. You just you just never know rob. And one of the most concerning things to me is that fed chair janet yellen isn’t sure said publicly that she isn’t sure if the exit of britain from the you will trigger a global recession. Now that’s not something that’s a very, very strong statement from the chairman of the fed and so that’s that’s troubling. Okay, rob us unemployment. Robert you listening to me? Rob? Rob, stop for a minute. Okay, okay. Take a breath, please. I’ve been trying to get a question and i’m trying to get a question into you, we’re going. We’re going back now, going back a minute. You have tio, all right, we have just about two minutes left, make it s so. I understand you’re very concerned about brexit, make it explicit for me. What is the connection between britain leaving the european union and the common market and a strong dollar? And a strong dollar. Yeah, strong dollar. How does that happen? Worldwide? And that effects the american economy? It also effects u s unemployment. But what’s the connection between britain leaving and those things you just said. They’re britain and germany were propping up the european union and it’s not clear at this point whether the european union will survive, because if if the germans tone and tony you and i wr roughly the same age, if the germans and the if the germans decide that they’re tired of supporting the socialist activities of italy, france, greece and spain, the hole you could fall apart. Okay, so that all right, so that makes the american dollar more appealing. Okay. Okay. That’s, the kind of art that’s we gotta make it explicit. Everybody listening is not an economist, including me. Even though i have a bachelor’s in science from an economic from carnegie mellon university. Um okay. We have just about thirty seconds left. Leave us with it’s a friday. Leave us with something a little positive. Please. The good news is that in spite of all the bad news, charitable giving is expected to increase this year by two point, one percent. Right so far. My two point one. Okay, alright, rob, we gotta leave it right there. Rob mitchell, ceo of atlas of giving. You’ll find them an atlas of giving dot com and that’s where? The media report is and he is at philantech roman. Thank you, rob mitchell. Thanks, tony. Always great to be with you. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com what about next week? It’s a three hundred show that’s. Another rhetorical question. That’s two in one hour. What do you know? You know what next week is it’s a three hundred joe, for goodness sake, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuing dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff she’ll be in the studio next week. Sam liebowitz is a line producer, he’s in the studio every week gavin dollars are am and fm and outreach director. He’s never been in the studio shows social media’s by susan chavez. Nor has she, but she doesn’t actually work from california. Our music is by scott stein. He’ll be in the studio next week. Be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great xero what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.