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Nonprofit Radio for April 26, 2019: Strategic Knowledge Management & Ethics In Your Prospect Research

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Dar Veverka & Janice Chan: Strategic Knowledge Management
Documents. Data. Projects. Governance. Training. They’re all components of knowledge management and our panel from 19NTC explains how to manage properly. Both returning, they’re Dar Veverka from Urban Teachers and Janice Chan at Shift and Scaffold.





Maria Semple

Maria Semple: Ethics In Your Prospect Research
There’s a lot of personal and private info available on your donors, volunteers and prospects.  Your researcher’s job is to find it. Where are the boundaries? How do you protect it? Maria Semple takes on these and other potential landmines. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder.





Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Nonprofit Radio for March 8, 2019: What Does The Data Divulge?

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Steve MacLaughlin: What Does The Data Divulge? 
Predictors for planned gifts. The state of online giving. And what to expect for 2019 fundraising. Steve MacLaughlin from Blackbaud shares the data on these topics and explains what it means.






Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of pseudo graphia. If you wrote to me that you missed today’s show, what does the data divulge predictors for planned GIF ts the state of online giving and what to expect for twenty nineteen fund-raising. Steve MacLachlan from Blackbaud shares the data on these topics and explains what it means on Tony’s take to Act Blue and nineteen NTC. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner. CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text. NPR two four for four nine nine nine Real Pleasure to Welcome Back Steve McLachlan to Non-profit Radio He’s the vice president of Data and Analytics at Blackbaud and best selling author of Data Driven Non-profits. He spent twenty plus years with a broad range of companies, government institutions and non-profits. He’s been featured as a fund-raising non-profit sector and data expert in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe. Blah, blah, blah The Chronicle. Philanthropy. Yes, yes! Blob blob. I’ve been I’ve been in some of these. I’ve been I was in The Chronicle. I was in The New York Times. I wasn’t I wasn’t in The Washington Post. I have not been in the Times. I’ve not been in the Boston Globe non-profit times. Yes, I was there. Stanford Social innovation with you. Yes, yes. Bloomberg Now I’ve been there on He’s appeared on National Public Radio. And of course, now it’s time for you, Stephen Hawking, to update your bio to say that you’ve appeared on Non-profit Radio. He’s at S MacLachlan, and the company is at blackbaud dot com. Welcome back, Steve MacLachlan. Thanks for having me back, Tony. Pleasure. Oh, you’re loud and clear. You use. I’m going to give a little shout out. You’re still loud and clear. I’m going to give a shout out to the mike that you and I both use. The yeti blew us B. Yes. Way both, like, the same high quality podcasting equipment. Absolutely. That And I I first heard that there were other people who, like I was on their shows and they sounded so clear. It happened twice. I was interviewed by other people, and I asked them both what they were using. And they said the yeti blew us B And, you know, one of them sent me a link to Amazon. And for a hundred bucks, it’s a very good mike. So there you go. Absolutely. Uh, And you’ve had yours. I think you told me you had yours a couple of years. A few years. Love it. Yeah. Shake it with me wherever I do. This kind of thing. You travel, you travel with it. I have travelled with it. Okay? It’s not travel friend. That’s kind of big. And yeah. Okay. Interesting. I never thought about doing that, but that’s how much you love it. So there you go. Shout out for Yeti Blue. Um, all right. So, uh, let’s see. Steam O’Clock in what’s been on your mind lately? You, uh, you here’s here’s what happened? You you tweeted something about a mysterious plan to gift, and you said it shouldn’t have been so mysterious. That was that was because of the because of the story on Alan Nayman in December eighteen. Or was there some other impetus to that tweet? I think it was probably that one. I think it was around there where you train with an eye. Reinardy. Yeah, I responded. Yeah, yeah, that was for years. You know, I every time these surprise gift stories come up, I always have the same reaction. Which is what? It really a surprise. I shouldn’t have tried. Should it have been you? And in this case, I think, yeah, you’re referring to the Alan Ayman story that was in, you know, all over the media towards end of year. And I was on the twitter, tweeting and sort of a pine that again. But this is a great story. A very generous individual. These are great organizations who are benefiting from this in a series of bequests. But should it have been a surprise? And even to a certain extent, does treating these gifts like surprises, undermined fundraisers and put them in a difficult position? Interesting. Alright, let CZ fill in a little bit. So he was a social worker in Washington state. His is final annual salary was something like sixty three thousand dollars a year. But he had earned a lot of money in banking and inherited a lot of money. Millions. But he had like a thirty year career in social work. He had left banking long before he died. Died young sixty to sixty three. Something like that. Live three sixty three live very frugally. They one of the one of the articles, said that he wore shoes that were held together with duct tape warrant drove a gel A peak are, uh, shopped in thrift shops. You get the idea. And then when he died, he had eleven million dollars to distribute and he gave it to, I don’t know, five charities or so something like that gave it all away. Never had children, never married. And you felt that those enormous planned gif ts shouldn’t have been a surprise. Ah, no, I wasn’t. I wasn’t sure I agreed with you, but let’s see why now we’re going now, now we’re off the twitter. We get a chance to get her off. The Twitter were talking and realize. Andi, you nailed the overarching story, and this is typically the overarching story and a lot of these. The stories you see in the news right? Frugal, individual, relatively low annual income, but makes a significant gift, and it surprises people. But I started to dig into the details because the details matter. And as you noted, you know, he was He worked it er in the state of Washington, Department of Social and Health Services for a number of years, and you win come around sixty three k. He You know, it was noted to be a very frugal individual, but there’s a some other details that come up to, for example, yes, go ahead. I left off the GIF ts. Yeah, yeah, well, he had inherited, you know, several million dollars previously from his parents when they were two seams. Um, and then if you start to look through the types of organizations that he made gifts, too, it makes sense. There’s a lot of affinity there, right? At least nine to ten organizations that he made terrible gifts to do. Almost all of them are related. Thio children’s charities or charities help benefit either low income families or children. Children with disabilities. His brother was disabled, so that was another thing that influenced his giving. You put those those things together and the picture starts to emerge. That’s a little bit a little bit clear. I think the other thing that’s worth noting is, um, for at least two of the organizations that he made a significant bequest to he made previously made a pretty large donation. So one organization in Washington pediatric Interim Care Center, he had made a ten thousand dollars online gift to that organization prior to a two and a half million dollars a request. And another organization, Tree House, which is a foster care group. We know from his background that he was involved in Mr Care programs. He made a five thousand dollars one time get to the organization before a nine hundred thousand dollar bequest. So again, not exactly out of thin air. Not a complete surprise. And a lot of the things that noted here, in terms of the income range and other things, actually do match up to what we see and other types of plan giving. Okay, we got We got to take our first break. Steve, Hold that. Of course, we’ll get right back. Teo. Mr. Nayman story Pursuant their newest free E book, The Art of First Impressions. It’s donor acquisition. To attract new donors, you make a smashing first impression. How do you do that? The book has the six guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy, including how to identify your your unique value. It’s got creative tips as well. You’ll find it at Tony dahna slash pursuant. You need that capital P for, please. All right, now, let’s go back to what is the day to divulge Steve, all right, And and one of those GIF TS was so large that the organs to the ten thousand dollar gift online was so large that the organization called to make sure that he had putting the right number of zeroes, that he didn’t intend at one hundred or thousand dollar gift. And he confirmed for them before they process the transactions, whatever that that it was indeed, a ten thousand dollar gift. So so that gift was a huge outlier for them, as were the other gifts that he made. But all right, so so now to those organizations, though. So were you saying that those organizations that got those huge gifts out of the blue and they came just a couple of months before he died. Were you saying that those organizations should have known? No. You couldn’t be saying that that there was a large that there would be a bequest for them, but or or just that. They should have paid more attention to him and possibly found out about his other intent engines. I think it’s the ladder, right? Obviously, if you have a gift of that amount and and a typical fund-raising programs, I think you would make certain assumptions about the type of stewardship and cultivation that would result from a gift of that level, even if it was an outlier. Or maybe especially because it’s an outlier and a a typical, Um, I think the other part two is, and you know this because you’ve got a lot of history and background plan giving that there’s a lot of myths about plan giving. You know the reality is a significant amount of plan. Gifts du come from individuals with lower income. You know, I think one of the study’s it’s reported, is the median annual income for the Quest. Commitment is only sixty thousand dollars a year. That totally falls in the rains we’re talking about here. I think there’s, you know, there’s the other myth that young people don’t make the quest. Uh, it’s on ly older donors will again data shows that that’s not true. If we look at it, donors who make decisions about their bequests commitment between the ages of forty and fifty four, there’s sixty percent of your best prospects. Maria, if you wait until people are sixty and seventy and older, um, that’s actually a much smaller pool of your best prospects. Your best prospects for plan giving and, in particular bequest krauz. Um, that’s where ninety percent of playing gifts come from, not from terrible gift annuities or crux and crack right overwhelm our request. Overwhelming because there are people who are forty to fifty four on. I think people may just not realise that that’s what the data shows. Okay, that’s interesting. My my concern about soliciting the bequests at younger ages on DH Interesting. And a lot of times I started fifty five. So we’re gonna have an interesting, robust conversation here. My concern about younger folks and I’ve even seen marketing or, um, articles. That’s a hard word from articles Yes, I’ve read read so infrequently that the word articles is difficult for me. I’ve read that, you know, there are There are some companies that are recommending promoting plan gives to people in their thirties even. But let’s stick with what you said forty to fifty four. My concern is that, you know, and and and we know that the last will is done like two, two and a half to three years before death, on average, on average. That’s what my concern is that that organization that puts you that you put in there will or that you that it gets put in the will at forty or forty five or fifty isn’t going to last until until death at in the eighties and nineties. And of course, longevity is getting getting hyre because life, circumstances change and the organizations that were important important enough to put in the will. And I’m I’m sure we agree that that’s a big step when you put an organization alongside your your husband, your wife, your children. That’s a huge step to put in organization in your will. But but even the organizations that are love that much in the forties and early fifties. I’m questioning whether those organizations are still going to be loved enough when that last will on average, gets done two years, but two and a half to three years before death. When the people are in their eighties and nineties, what do you think? So let’s let’s pretend that’s true. Boo. Then who’s the burden on? And I would say in that scenario the burden that is on the non-profit organization to continue Tio Stuart and move along that relationship so that you when that commitment you made of that decision you made when you were in your forties in your fifties when you’re in your seventies or eighties? Obviously, yes, people, people change their minds. People change decisions about there planning, but all of those decisions are influenced by something. And is it possible that in your forties and fifties you’d plan tto leave a portion of your estate to charity A And later on, you decide to charity B? Sure, I would say that’s just the same. Is it what you would see happen in principle or major E-giving or even other e-giving? Certainly, we know that donors change their minds about where they give and and how they give. Um plan giving isn’t isn’t immune to that. It doesn’t suspend those laws. Sure. Fund-raising and dahna behavior we already know. Yeah. All right. Well, um, stewardship. That’s a that’s a long time to Steward. Um All right. You make you make a good point. It is, right. I mean, I think we all recognize that zoho talk about a plan gift. A plan gift is usually a major gift. It’s just deferred, right. The difference is about the timing. You know? Am I making that gift today? Because I have liquidity, and I can make that significant gift today. Or is it differed because I want to make this gift, But But, you know, uh, until I passed away or something happens, I’m not able to make that gift, you know, timing different. So we’re, you know, we’re disagreeing about We’re just agreeing about roughly fifteen years because you you said forty to fifty four is the sweet spot, right? Did you have When where your best prospects are? Best way our people start subject. These types of initial decisions, you say forty, forty to fifty for that. That right? Forty to fifty for about six? Yeah. About sixty percent of all your best prospects are in that age range. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Because then it goes down from there. All right, All right. Because I typically start marketing around age fifty five for charities that have age a lot a lot. Don’t. Um yeah. All right. That’s all right. So we’re talking about fifteen years, Mohr, you know, ten, fifteen years Mohr of stewardship. Um, all right. I’ll I’ll take it in to take it under advisement. I I still am concerned that the lives are going to change in the and and the importance of the charities. You know, other things are gonna happen in life that are going toe elevate other charities. Now, you would say, Well, they might get at it, but that doesn’t mean that the initial one’s going to be subtracted. Granted. Okay, No, uh, take it under advisement. You’re Yeah. Okay. Okay. So the lesson for for these Washington say charities that had these windfalls was had they started the Mr name. And after he made his lifetime gif ts that we’re way off the charts for the for these charities, the one even questioning the amount it was so large online they might have learned about his intentions by Will is that is that Is that where you’re you’re going with that? I think so. I think also, it’s there’s a cautionary tale here that if we believe that these significant types of gifts are just going to appear out of nowhere that, in fact, there’s nothing as a fundraiser or is an executive director Seo over Non-profit Aiken dio. I’m almost it’s almost down to pure lock on, and I would reject that. It’s pure luck, I agree. But it is. You can start to plan for this. You can identify people with a higher likelihood. Ah, hyre inclination to make these types of gifts. And in fact, I think, you know, we’ve talked about this on Twitter and other places. Playing giving is a huge untapped opportunity. Yeah, and so so don’t think of it is magical or luck. Think of it as a huge untapped opportunity that you can build into your PA programs and be successful. But you gotta put the time and effort into it as well. Absolutely agree. Reject that notion of its just a windfall. They just happen magically. You can look at data you can look. Att Yeah, your data data you have on giving history and identify your best plan giving prospects irrespective of age. They they might even end up being in their forties, and you don’t know it because you don’t have A, um you’ll have a gin, your file on DH? Yeah, absolutely ages Only one part of it. I think when we look ATT plan giving likelihood things in the data that make that bubble up the top are certainly, you know, things like wealth and assets, but things like church attendance, loyalty to a cause. Another thing that we found in the past with predictive modeling is if those individuals are more civically involved, they they donate to a political campaign so they donate to things in their state local area. Another big factor is lack of living children. And that certainly played out Alan Damon’s case. He had no, wasn’t married, had no children. We see that all the time and plan giving, and it could be, you know, those children are older or they had no children. Those are all factors. It certainly isn’t just all down to age, and that’s a great point. And and for smaller organizations, because our our audience is small and midsize. However you define that I don’t. I never put any definitions or boundaries around that. A lot of what you’re getting at is going to be findable by meeting people and talking to them in terms of civic engagement. Ah, marital status, children, ages of children if they have them. So they volunteered your organization, factors like that. You, Khun, quickly get Teo. Well, that one. You’ll have that when you’ll know I’m I’m suggesting that a lot of what you were describing you wouldn’t be a smaller midsize shop, wouldn’t be able to find unless they were meeting unless they were talking to people. Or is that an out of date? Am I by a dinosaur? And that’s anachronistic opinion. I mean, I think that world is changing, and I think, you know, in the next couple of years, let’s just say for the next decade I think that’s going to change a lot, or, in fact, needs to change a lot way. Topic comes up all the time. We talk about organizations in their use of data. There’s a tendency to think of a smaller How does this data benefit of smaller organization and and a lot of cases, you know, if your ah if you’re a two million dollar or one million dollar non-profit organization, if you miss out on a big opportunity, there’s a significant impact there. If you raised sixty million dollars a year and you miss out on one or two opportunities, it has less impact so that the data actually becomes, you know, very valuable for mid size, smaller organizations to so, But I wantto get to some of the data points that you mentioned, Um, that that I was suggesting you you’d only learn if you talk to somebody. Like like, civic engagement, number of children not volunteering because you would know. You know, your volunteers are on DH. You rattled off a couple of others? I don’t remember, But it was occurring to me that you’d only find those out through conversations. But are you saying that databases are evolving? That would help us find this out without having to meet somebody? Yeah. I mean, a lot of these, a lot of these data elements or even models you would do our things that that non-profit organization’s been doing for, you know, probably twenty years. It’s just becoming Mohr wide spread and common as the cost of doing that continues to get lower and the value that people are realizing from it. Okay, okay. And, you know, you could also Yeah, the true enough. I mean, you can yeah, mining, no mining the social networks. They’re there cos that will do that for you. For your file. Blackbaud is probably one of them. I mean, you can do. Do you have that capability? Yes. Certainly. One of the things that we do with our customers as we have the ability to upend these types of data elements to a file. But actually, what’s more common is organizations ask us tow, screen their donors and identify people who have a major gift likelihood or a plain gift likelihood or an annual gift likelihood because you’re you also start to quickly drift into. I want to understand all the donors or potential supporters I have, and some are a better fit for different types. Of programs and others. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Uh, the Well, that’s the data accessibility that a lot a lot of people fear, but it exists on DH. If it’s there and you can use it for the benefit of your fund-raising, you might as well. All right. Um, absolutely. You want to talk about a little about digital? What? What? What’s on your mind about digital online? Fund-raising I have a lot on my mind about digital way. Just have an hour. Yeah. Sorry. I think the big thing is I recently wrote something about the fact that online giving it’s been around for twenty years. Now, that’s a long time. And yet a lot of the current perception or continued perception the sector is online. Is this new thing? No, it’s not. I mean, it’s a twenty year old. It’s moved out of the house. It’s grown up, uh, you know, and I think that’s going to call call into question. How long do we persist? Thinking about online is a totally separate animal from the rest of Fund-raising. When the reality is, it’s just a channel, right? It’s like direct mail. It’s like phone. It’s like street canvassing. It’s like events. It’s you know, it’s like, you know, we used to have basic cable and then we got all the advanced, you know, channels on cable. That’s what digital has brought us. But there’s still a lot of thinking about it. It’s a separate thing. We should think about it separately. I think now that we’re twenty years into this, we probably need Teo evolve our thinking and think about, you know, if we thought the last twenty years brought a lot of change. The next twenty is going to bring a really transformative change in a lot of ways. So the the online giving is still under ten percent. You’re the charitable giving reports puts it at eight and a half percent is that I have the eight and a half percent but growing heimans madox people. It’s growing. That study has been steadily growing. Yeah, that shocks people. But it’s interesting. The U. S. Department of Commerce publishes the percentage of all retail sales that happened on the Internet, and that’s only nine point eight percent. So again, I don’t know. Everyone may think you buy everything from Amazon and you buy everything online. The reality is less than ten percent of retail is online and less than ten percent of Fund-raising is online and they’re actually tracking pretty close. That just tells us consumer donorsearch Hey, viewer had a lot of cross over. OK, absolutely true about the retail I would, I would have guessed, I don’t know, forty or something less than ten. Just under ten. Nine point eight percent of all retail sales in the point eight percent are online. Dang Alright, alright. I knew I was going to learn from This is a part of this too. And it brings up another interesting question. Which is how how you fund-raising is not the same as what you fund-raising so to me. The how you fund-raising what channels to use your running a direct mail program. Do you do events? Do you send email? But then there is what gets fund-raising taste. And there’s a crossover, right? So are you Are you raising money through a monthly giving program? Are you being an annual giving program? Do you have mid level giving Major e-giving plan giving on? And these things really blurred the lines right? You know we’re talking about the the exact example previously that individual made to online gifts, you know, in excess of several thousand dollars. That’s very common these days. So to me, that’s less about the fact that they made the gift online and has more to do with Where do they fit into your fund-raising program? Because in a lot of cases online, it is. It’s just convenient. Right is less friction. There’s less steps, but it doesn’t. And this is another point. I think that’s come up on social media in a lot of debates is, well, is. There’s also a tendency to think, um, we need to put all of our money into digital and stop putting money into the traditional Let’s just call it analog stuff, and I love digital. But that’s crazy. Like that’s a bad idea. I think what we find is you need to have a mix. You gotta virality You’ve got to be a multi challenge. It’s gotta be, Yeah, yeah, that’s on. That’s consistent with what so many guests have said about communications. You have to be multi-channel. Your fund-raising needs to be as well. What are the right? So what are the larger sources of If if online is just only eight and a half percent where The biggest too. So what’s the biggest two sources of of channel? Yeah, of individual Give? Yes. Channels. Yeah. I mean, it’s going to be, you know, direct mail. Still direct phone. Yeah. Face-to-face canvassing and then digital and within digital, you’re going tohave email. You’re going have online ads. You’re going tohave social media. I mean, there’s probably, you know, a two dozen channels that we could look at you and, you know, digital. Just one of them. Sure, sure, alright, but but so direct mail is still the number one. The greatest source of individual giving is still from direct mail. No, I would say you really looked at the numbers. You would find that it is the face-to-face, not canvassing face-to-face, but face-to-face, I’m gonna go sit Tony in your living room this afternoon, and we’re going to discuss that three million dollars gift, okay? Because the reality is, um if you look at a ball, all of fund-raising eighty two percent of all the revenue comes from twenty percent of donors and those air come from significant gifts. So if he really got down to ah, what channel or what type of interaction raises the most money, it’s going to Major, give fund-raising and those air face-to-face conversations. Okay? We’re not having a conversation about just what raises the most money. I think what we want to understand is what is the mix of channels, right? Oh, yeah. Wait, no. You gotta that first gift might because you saw an advertisement on NPR. Or you got something in the mail or you saw something on social media, and you develop that relationship over time, and it takes a lot of channels to get there, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I just, uh it seemed like a natural question. What is the largest. Steve. We’ve got to take a take a take another break. Okay, where you see Piela. They have an archive Webinar for you. Their accounting update. What has changed this year that Wagner knows categorically and you need to know just a skosh. New requirements for financial statements. For instance, that’s what the webinars about what’s new this year. You goto wagner cps dot com Click Resource is then Webinars. Now it’s time for Tony’s. Take two is next week. Act Blue and Non-profit Radio at the Non-profit Technology Conference in Portland, Oregon. ActBlue is our premiere sponsor at nineteen and TC. I hope you will come by booths five o eight and five ten where we are together in. In. If there is no five o nine in between us, that’s on five nines on the other side of the aisle. So we’re in a large booth together. Non-profit radio in ActBlue. Just just look for the booth with the bright studio lights, because I’m gonna be shooting video a cz. Well, as I’m capturing interviews for the coming months on the show, Act Blue is they’re talking about the power of small dollar donations. While I’m capturing interviews for now. I just said right this crap while I’m capturing you. Yeah. No shit. I just said that I need an intern. I am soliciting ob soliciting resumes for interns. So I have somebody to blame for this. Poor copy. Eso submit your resume Tonia tonia martignetti dot com And the next time there’s a mistaken my copy. You know that I will blame you so send your resume quickly. Alright, in the meantime? Um actblue Yes. You know them for their wildly popular on DH successful political grassroots fund-raising platform raised over three billion dollars. You can go to AC Blue and you can see the sea the counter. But now they want you to check out their platform and small dollar donation value for your organ. It’s no longer just for grassroots and political. So you do that a tony dot m a slash ActBlue. Come to the booth. Sabelo. Ah, the interview schedule. It’s completely booked. I’ve got thirty seven interviews in the two and a half days of NTC. Unbelievable. Non-profit radio, wildly popular. Last year. We had about eight or so empty slots this year. Not a single empty slot. I mean, we’re, you know, we’re taking bathroom breaks and lunch breaks, but thirty seven interviews come by. Come by. Say hello, Teo. Me and ActBlue. All right. That is Tony’s. Take two. Now, let’s get back to Steve McLaughlin. And what does the data divulge? You probably got a little more. Yes. You were just admonishing me for asking the question. About what? What What is the highest? What is the largest source of individual gifts? And I understand we’re not. We’re not. We’re not categorizing. One, two, three, four. The point is, you do need to be multi-channel, um, and and not not not focus on any anyone area. All right, so you got a little more you want to say in digital, I’m sure or on this on this subject, I mean, I think you’re spot on, you know, it’s got to be the multi-channel. I think the other thing that we’re learning is non-profits air starting to understand that it’s also the sequencing and those channels. I think if we look back ten or fifteen years from now, I think this is an area where artificial intelligence machine learning can really help. In some ways, which is understanding. What is the sequence of messaging? Is it? There’s a direct mail piece, followed by an email followed by an SMS message, followed by this followed by that followed by something that hasn’t been invented yet. That is the right sequence that drives donors to give or renew our whatever happens to be. And certainly I think another part worth noting is his mobile is part of this digital landscape. For a number of years, we’ve looked at the percentage of online donations that happen on a mobile device. Yes, in twenty eighteen, it was twenty four percent, right? So we’re done debating if mobile is a really important thing because it’s almost a quarter of all the online donations are happening on a mobile device, and that was only, like, nine percent a few years ago. So it’s that continues to grow. I think if you look put down the time Horizon Mobile has the potential to be one of the most transformative, um, elements of e-giving experience. Um, you know, there’s seven billion people on Planet Earth, and five billion of them have a mobile phone. There’s only like two and a half billion PCs. So mobile has a lot of potential. And you’ll see over time, e-giving will move the mobile. Um, a lot of these other type of non-profit interaction things will move to a mobile device. And I think a lot of ways that will help us get over our online versus offline hang up because a mobile devices, all those things in one, right? We don’t think about Oh, I’m online on my phone. No, You know, we just don’t think of it that way. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. So your point one, the points you made were past the debate whether you need to make sure that every page that you’re giving our all of that is mobile optimized that videos that your your videos you maybe sharing play, play properly on on, ah, a phone or a phone or a tablet. But you’re talking specifically about phones, so we’re we’re past all that you need to be one hundred percent mobile optimized, and so let’s so let’s talk some about sametz giving. What do we do? We know that specifically in terms of Is that the you don’t know? I’m asking a six different questions at one time. You’re stuck with me as a host. I’m sorry. There is. There is no other hosts non-profit radio, it’s me or dead air. So you’re stuck with me. Okay. The report says mobile donations, twenty four percent. Is that all SMS or no, That’s people going to a website and filling out an online form Ah, form on their phone. What is what’s in that? Twenty percent. Twenty four percent. We’re looking at donation to happen on a mobile device. We’re not looking at SMS SMS is interesting. Um, you know, there was a point in time several years ago where we saw SMS was going to be the new big thing and that turned out to not happen. I think it was the right medium, but the wrong method. So you know, two thousand ten was probably the big moment for text to give in the US there was the Haiti earthquake. There were tens of millions of dollars raised through SMS text to give. There was a lot of hype. Everyone said it’s all going to be text to give Ah and you fast forward to today And essentially that’s not what happened. What happened? Wass, Um we we were right about the medium that people would want to do something on a mobile device. But we were wrong about the method. Text to give was not going to be the method that people prefer to use for a lot of reasons. But really, what’s become sort of the most effective approaches when you optimize your website, your donation forms your email messages, your digital experience for mobile. Um people will give through that and and a significant portion, um, text to give. I don’t think it’s really, um, sort of panned out the way people thought. Now that’s not to say that SMS is a communication and an engagement tool hasn’t been successful. I think there’s a lot of examples of SMS being a good way to engage supporters, volunteers, activists. Um it’s just text to give, at least for the U. S. Um, I think it’s had its day and you’ll see the most of that just shifted people doing on a mobile device. Okay, interesting way. Have a sponsor text to give that well, not be happy to hear you’re and I’m sure they have a different take on this although they do mobile engagement also on DH there is that there is a lot I think is is do something. Are they the premier example of mobile text text, engagement? Do something dot or do something? There’s a lot there. Crisis text line right after them. The Lublin in the folks that crisis tech find right amazing stories of what? Sms from an engagement perspective and a programmatic perspective, they have some amazing work. They’ve done their, um, part of it. Just as would text to give one of the challenges. Is it’s? It’s a regulated industry. You got to deal with the telcos. Ah, the amount you Khun give is limited. Ah, all the rules around it are highly constrained. So would I rather get a one time, ten dollars text gift or what? I rather send them to my website? That’s optimized, and I get a twenty five dollars per month recurring gift or a thousand dollar gift. Um, you know, just some different things happening in that space, for sure. Okay, we got to take another break. Tell us. Can use more money needed to revenue sources. Stephen, I talkingabout multi-channel You get a long stream of passive revenue. This is passive revenue. When companies that you refer process their credit card transactions through, tell us, watch the video, then send these potential companies to watch the video. Could be trusty, local, local company that’s been supporting you. If they take credit cards, their their their prospects for this and you will get fifty percent of the fee of each transaction. That’s the long revenue stream. The video is that Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s. Now let’s go back to Steve McLachlan. Um, all right, so you know, we’ve got another twenty minutes or so. Roughly. Um, let’s talk a little about what you see. What your what your thoughts are around overall giving it’s up up a percent. A half in twenty. Eighteen. Um, And let’s talk about what you what you think is coming for twenty. Nineteen. That’s a wide open heart. Open topic. Yeah, well, first, I think we should note that despite the reports of the demise of Fund-raising Oh, yes, Yes. The reports were greatly exaggerated, right? You know, you You seen this over the past eighteen months? Eighteen months as much as anybody, right? Oh, the fund-raising. Is going to go down the tubes. The bottom is gonna fall out. Mass hysteria. Turns out in twenty eighteen. That didn’t happen. Way looked at about thirty two billion and fund-raising revenue across a wide range of organizations. And what we found with E-giving was up about one and a half percent on a year over year basis. And we actually took a step back and looked at a three year trend because a lot of stuff has happened in the past three years. And if you look at the three year trend, so twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen and you look at the same exact organizations and how they performed overall giving is up nine percent. Um, so I think that’s A positive one of things also tells us is that twenty seventeen was a much better year in terms of giving than what we may be thought a year ago, um and twenty eighteen was probably a return to more normal levels. Um, but I think most organizations would take nine percent over three years. And from a girl’s perspective now, help me understand this, Um, what’s the difference between the one and a half percent growth in overall and the and the nine percent? Sure. So, one half percent growth if we take the exact same non-profit organizations in twenty seventeen and we see how they performed in twenty, eighteen through one and a half percent here apples, apples, comparison. Um, but when you look at it over three years, you actually see it. It’s a nine percent growth rate. I think if anything that tells us, you know, twenty seventeen probably had a spike in giving caused by a multitude of factors the economy, uh, politics, lots of stuff. And maybe that got overlooked in a lot of the hysteria about what may or may not happen in giving in twenty eighteen. But overall, you know, growth is good. And certainly as we head into twenty nineteen. Um, we’re looking for some good news there, too. Okay. All right. See, So over three years, the growth was was nine percent. Um, so you’re you mentioned your charitable giving report Looks at about thirty two billion dollars in giving. Yeah, but total total individual giving is like, four hundred billion. So how total giving is about four hundred ten billion Total individual giving is what is it? Seventy percent of that. Okay, right. It’s a three quarter. It’s It’s usually three quarters of so, So so about three hundred billion. Um, so s So how do you answer the question? You’re looking at roughly ten percent of individual giving. Ifyou’re looking at thirty two billion and it’s three hundred billion total, How do you How do you respond if that za small percentage of total individual giving? So how do we know it’s representative of the whole? Well, you know, all data is only representative of itself not to get a topical right. Says that’s very esoteric. We’re looking at David and two billion dollars. That’s what happened for these organizations, I think one of the challenges. Um, no, one has all the data for the four hundred something billion dollars. Um, so if you’re looking to find the absolute number and all the data that doesn’t exist in one place, certainly what we tried to do with e-giving report on some of our researches, let’s try and have a very large, significant sample size. I’m not aware of anyone sample sizes larger and try and provide some insight and analysis there. That’s a interesting way I’ve touched on this from time to time through the years. Um, it’s related to the fact that we have to wait until June of each year when the giving us a report comes out to find out what the what the charitable giving was for the previous year. It just seems to me that in twenty nineteen, we shouldn’t have to wait six months on. I’m not, I guess. Well, I am implicitly imputing giving us a You know, there used to be the atlas of giving and Rob Mitchell was on the show a number of times. They had an algorithm that that they said was nineteen, ninety nine or ninety eight or ninety nine percent predictive. When you look back based on all kinds of econometric variables that they said they could predict. And then they change it every month. They could look, he didn’t call them predictions that could forecast he didn’t like the word predictions. It could forecast the future with these with these econometric variables, but that the, uh, the the atlas of giving no longer exists that it didn’t didn’t prevail. I don’t know. It’s just we don’t have a good measure. No one does have all the data. Why? Why do we have to wait six months? Made this twenty nineteen and we were just with all the with all the technology we have access to data. Why do we have to wait six months to know what happened in the previous year? You’re that your data scientist? Help me understand. Why is this so hard? Why can’t someone? Why can’t someone tackle this so that within a couple of weeks we know what happened in the previous year? Boy, do I want to get into this one way? Got about ten minutes left, so go ahead. Uh, well, I think a couple of things. One, Certainly. You know, my perspective is that what giving USA produces and what they’ve done for fifty plus years is is really valuable to the sector because it’s a lot of deep research in tow into the data and what’s happening and trends. But like anything, any benchmark, any report, I think we’ve got a really focus on How does it help? You know, what’s the point of it is that we wantto count how many billions were raised. I don’t think it’s necessarily that that makes for interesting headlines, but I think really, it’s about how do we make? How do we make that information actionable and in so many ways? I think what I continue to see is it’s really valuable for an organization, whether you’re one million dollars a year budget, human services organization or a fifty million dollar healthcare charity. You want this information, these insights because you want to be able to compare your performance to what else is happening in the sector, but probably more importantly, you want to be able to compare your performance to similar pierre organization, right? That’s how am I doing compared to others. And, you know, what is it that some of those organizations might be doing differently? That’s driving growth? Or am I outperforming them? And that’s useful to know? Yeah, I agree with all that, of course, that there is value. But why do we have to wait six months? That’s a long time. Six months is a long time to know what’s actionable from the previous year. Were you? Do you Do you remember the atlas of giving you? Are you familiar with what that was? I’m familiar with it. Yeah. Okay. Um, what did you think of Atlas of giving you can You’re free to disagree, Rob Mitchell Will doesn’t. Nobody listens to this show, so don’t worry about it. I’m starting to think that they had built some sort of black box. Proprietary forecast, right models, right? What was happening with e-giving? Um, that changed, uh, with a lot of frequency. Well, they don’t know. They updated the therefore decided it wasn’t That wasn’t a valuable, useful thing to have. Maybe. Yeah. I don’t know if it was the market or the marketing. You know, I was a small, a small company. Um, I have a background in economics, and I I, uh I mean, I wasn’t privy to their to their algorithm, but okay, s so I I used to lean toward that, basically, but it didn’t. It didn’t succeed. For whatever reason again, I think a lot of that is there was a small business and they were up against e-giving Yusa, which does have Ah, long history, like you said, fifty years. Okay, I don’t I’m not cutting off the topic. Steve Matlock, and we’ll go right back to it. You could respond to exactly right back to what I just said, but I got to take care of our sponsors. Last break is the last break. Text to give can use more, uh, more money, more engagement. You need a new revenue source. This is another way we’re talking multi-channel mobile giving. I know we just talked about it with Steve, but, uh, text to give is more than just mobile giving. It’s also mobile engagement. Um, but with their emphasising, is there five part email? Many course tto learn more about what they’re doing. It’s five e mails and the weight to get into the email. Many course is you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Now, we’ve got several more minutes for what does the day to divulge? Um, okay, Um all right. Anything? What do you want to say? Anything. Response to what I was just saying you know again? I mean, I think any of these reports, anything analysis stuff we should always go back to. How can an non-profit apply it to what they’re doing? I think in the case of giving you say, they’re tryingto bring together a lot of data. Some of it is economic data, you know is, you know, when you’re tryingto forecast or predict what happened, it’s partially based on there’s IRS data. There’s economic data. There’s a number of factors there. I would say, You know, we sort of on the blackbaud side, we differed e-giving Yusa to say how much was given and toe which type of organizations was given, too, because that is a complex undertaking of which durney you know, that’s not our not our focus. We’re sort of Mohr interested in trying to understand things that a at a different level on more about what the trends are than the actual dollars. But then giving us a doesn’t even give us a forecast. I mean, they they say some generalities like the political environment and climate change, and so societal factors and the metoo movement, you know, will impact e-giving. But but they don’t, They don’t They don’t have any numbers along with their forecast. Uh, I mean, they don’t have any. Numerical forecast is what I mean. It sounds like you’ve got some topics and potential guests for your next show. Them. Well, you could be one of them, but yeah, but But nobody’s got the Why does it take? Why does it take six months? This’s twenty nineteen, for God’s sake. I just don’t understand why it takes six months to get the previous. All right, It seems to me we should be able to have it in, like, two weeks. Your data scientist, To prove me wrong, I I would defer to them. Uh, probably blackbaud should do it. You should take it on. You could do it in six weeks. You could beat them all right, Until I just I uninformed opinion, but I think it’s I think it’s doable. Maybe uninformed, but it’s still valid. It’s complete contradiction. All right, um all right. What do you What do you want to say about about About the future. I’ll get off the, uh, donor advised funds. Okay? And we talk about that once We got a couple, you just have a couple minutes left. Sure. What about them? They’re growing well. You know. They’re growing, I think. The Chronicle Plan B is noted that five of the top ten charities in the US or now don’t advise funds. You’re seeing a lot of growth there. I know there’s been a lot of talk about tax law changes, but it’s worth noting none of that tax law changes impacts dahna advice funds. So, you know, I think you’re going to continue to see them grow. I think you’re going to see the thresholds on those donorsearch vice fund start to move down. You know, it’s not going to be that I have to make a five or a ten thousand dollar gift to start one. You’re going to see those things lower. Um, I think it’s going to be part of a bigger part of giving, which is is different, right? You know, it’s not going to be, you know, certainly we track giving two foundations, but we don’t look at that in terms of the growth of giving, because it’s a bit of an intermediary in some cases. But I think you’re going to see dahna advice. One’s continued to grow uh, continue to be a bigger share of ware. Charitable giving goes on, and nonprofit organizations are gonna have to get better it both engaging with donors and educating them about, Hey, hey, it’s okay if you choose to use a donor advised fund, but but here’s how you can use that to help continue to give their organization and do things. And I think that’s that’s sort of the new reality. Like we talked about Mobile, the new normal dahna advice funds are here. They’re not going anywhere. They will only continue to get bigger. And that’s a part that fundraisers and and non-profit leaders need to pay attention to. That’s a great topic. I hosted a panel on the foundations at the foundation center, and we aired it here. Dahna advice. Funds are you know they’re a source of frustration for not for charities, starting with the fact that sometimes they don’t know who the gift is from the Schwab or the or the Fidelity. You know, I won’t tell them Yeah. I mean, I think it’s certainly create some frustration on the part of non-profits, but I think it’s not going away. Yeah. So how does he adapt to it? Um, you know, there’s probably a whole set of best practices that certain organizations have learned to embrace that, um, you know, that type of approach and again from a tax law perspective or some other other types of things, uh, they don’t really impact recover What donorsearch vice funds or doing? It’ll also be interesting to see what donorsearch vice funds due to, um, private foundations. What does it mean for local community foundations? Who who in some cases, do run their own donor advised funds as well? That’s a whole interesting ecosystem. Well, yeah, I mean, you could Well, I think of dahna advice funds, as the modest income persons foundation mean, I got it, you know, And and I I hear your point. The thresholds will will come down. You believe that? Sounds very very likely. So let’s say, you know, But for a thousand five thousand dollars, I can have a private foundation through a donor advice. I’m going to put the money in, and I and my kids, if I had kids could decide where, where, where, where and when to make those. And I don’t have the five percent spend requirement that private foundations have. All right. I guess I didn’t mean Teo. I’ll give you the last word. You’re the guest, but we do have to wrap up. So So give up. Give us a thirty second rap thirty second rap again. I think there’s a lot of positive trends in terms of e-giving what we’re seeing with digital, but ultimately it still comes back to How are we engaging with donors? How we steward that starting them. Um, how are we showing the impact that they have, Like all those, uh, basic bread and butter blocking and tackling. Insert your analogy here. Those are replaced by technology or anything else. You still have to do those things and the organizations that do those things well, the ones that will continue to grow and do more amazing work in the world. Steve McLachlan, He’s vice president of Data and Analytics at Blackbaud. You should follow the guy’s. Very smart. Very smart. Uh, at S McLachlan. It’s m a C Lachlan. Okay, at S McLaughlin on the companies that blackbaud dot com. Steve, thank you so much. Thanks for coming back. Great. Thanks, Tony. Real pleasure. Next week it is Jason Lewis and the War for Fund-raising talent. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuant online tools. Here’s where the music cue the music. Chris Care is responsive by pursuing. Oh, no, that’s my mistake. Now you don’t okay, turn the music down. That was Tony martignetti mistakes. You’re stuck with this host up there, but I’m the only one. Chris is doing the show perfectly, and I just screwed him up. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPAs Guiding you Beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By Telus Credit card and payment Processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations and engagement made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Ah, creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Crisco terrorizes the line producer much better at his job than I am at mine shows Social media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scots Diner, Brooklyn, New York, with me next week for Non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi. 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Nonprofit Radio for January 4, 2019: Stay Secure In 2019

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Jordan McCarthy: Stay Secure In 2019 
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Oppcoll. Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti Non-profit Radio Big Non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Happy New Year. Welcome. Welcome to Non-profit radio two point zero one nine. Whatever the hell that means. Welcome to the new Year. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of Pem Fergus Arithmetic. Assis, If you made me face the idea that you missed today’s show, stay secure in twenty nineteen. Let’s resolve to keep our technology and data safe in the new year. Jordan McCarthy will help. He’s with tech impact. And he’s got simple, proactive measures for the short term as well as bigger long term initiatives. For your consideration, stay safe on Tony’s Take two Time to be an insider. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dahna may slash pursuant by Wagner CPAs guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com. Bye. Tell us Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four, four nine nine nine How police to welcome Jordan McCarthy to the show. He is infrastructure and security lead at tech impact. He works with organizations of every shape and size from three person grassroots advocacy groups to three hundred plus Persson social service providers to help them figure out what kinds of technical tools, analyses and strategies will maximize their social impact. Yes. A decade of experience and systems and network administration, technical writing and education and technology policy analysis. Tech impact is at tech impact dot org’s and at tech underscore impact. Welcome to the show, Jordan. Thank you so much. It’s a real pleasure to be here. Thank you. And happy New Year. Oh, you as well, Thank you very much. Thanks. Um, Tech impact is Ah, non-profit itself. What? What are you doing there? So quite a lot. We are an interesting organization because we have the heart and soul of a non-profit, um and to some extent, you know, the constant, you know, running from one thing to the next. But we provide services in the style of a more traditional tea shop to other non-profit. That’s not the only thing we do. We actually have several arms, one of which I’m really, really fundez works arm, and they’re sort of a more traditionally non-profit ah division that does workforce development in Philadelphia, Wilmington in Las Vegas. I bring in underserved young people and giving them a solid foundation of skills in its various kinds of support and allows them to go back in their communities and give back and start off on really solid careers. But, um, I was out of the house. We provided all sorts of technical services advising, consulting, implementations and an ongoing support. Two non-profits of every shape and size. And what we do for each non-profit really depends on who they are and what they need. So we try to meet folks where they’re at and, you know, get a sense of who they are and then sculpt a package of services, whether ongoing or short term. There really helps them be more effective at whatever it is that they do using technology related. Yes, exactly. Right. So you know, we aren’t necessarily going to help for supply cars, but anything related to information technology. It pretty much falls under arm broke Now I saw that in training you partner with Idealware Idealware Sze CEO Karen Graham is bound to show a couple of times. I’m a big fan of Idealware. Did I see that right? You You do some partnering with them? Actually, yes. And we’ve partnered more closely than ever because we have actually merged with Idealware second back and idealware. Yeah are now basically part in parcel of the same organization. So we are tremendously excited about that, Looking forward to working with Karen and her team to really redouble our efforts in the area of education and training and really trying to get people empowered to do some more of that stuff on their own. So they don’t have to, you know, exclusively, Rely on, you know, chops like that Come back. We will be here still that people need us. But we want to give people a much much of the tooling and resources that they I can stomach so that they can be as effective as they can on their own looking Look at Non-profit radio outside the loop. I did not know that you had merged. Is there going to be a common name? But between you and idealware. So they are, I believe now, but we’re keeping the name check impact it’s sort of, you know, it’s It’s a nice broad umbrella Idealware is keeping their name is well, but I think there now, you know, one of our major flagship. Yeah, Not not. I don’t know what we’re calling it the subdivision because they are, you know, really powerhouse in their own right. But they’re a member of the family. Let’s say OK, how recent is that merger that I that I didn’t know? Only in the past couple months. Oh, good. Okay. I don’t feel so bad. All right. No, more like two or three months behind. Oh, that’s not so bad. I’m still reading the newspapers from October then. Okay, Trump. Um, So you want to see, um, social progress? You say that you want to see social progress shaped technology usage, not the other way around. What do you feel like? Non-profits are not doing as well as they as well as they could in this. That’s very interesting and complex questions. All right. What we have in our you know, I mean, we go. Don’t take. Don’t take a full hour on it, you know? But now I don’t know if we have time. You don’t want the one you don’t want to tail wag the dog? Yes, exactly like that. One of my personal driving philosophies, that sort of really, um they put me where I am today through various stint in higher education and the D. C think tank world. And what I know what that means to me. I think, is that I see, you know, technology is everywhere in today’s world, and we’re doing a lot with it. But a lot of what’s being done is not all that socially oriented, right? You know, I several years ago was already sort of concerned about what Facebook was doing to all of us. And now, you know, come two thousand eighteen and we get a really big download of exactly what’s been going on there and how they have not really been all that interested in doing good by the world on. You know, Facebook is obviously the bookie man of the day. But you could look at any big tech company, really and and ask. Okay, well, how much of this is socially relevant? And to be fair, many of these cos I do have a lot of really powerful, um, philanthropy arms, and they do a lot of really good work. But at a zoo community, I feel like the technology space isn’t as focused as it should be on solving the really big problems that we face as a society as a world, you know, matters of civil rights and environmental destruction so forth, Um, and I think that the non-profit community really does tackle those problems day in and day out. You know, that is their core focus. They’re kind of safety net providers in the whole bunch of different spaces where you know other sectors just aren’t quite stepping up. And so what I would really like to see is a fusion of the spirit and the really innovative thinking in terms of social development and progress on the non-profit side and be able to fuse that with the you know, really, under a nouriel creativity of the technology space so that we can see maur tools, Mohr types of work that leverage this tremendously powerful tool kit that we’ve developed over the past twenty years or so to really maximize the number of people who can be reached by a particular social intervention, you know, the number people who are aware of various pressing problems really raise the level of engagement. OK, tidy as a whole. Uh, Jordan, I want Our people are not only more aware of what’s going on, what’s really important, but that they also empowered to do something about it. That’s meaningful. Unhelpful. Okay, we got to take our first break, but I want to continue this thread of the conversation talking about Cem Cem. You know, idealware non-profit technology network and I feel like there’s we’re making inroads to this, but time for a break right now pursuing two New resource is on the listener landing page. The field guide to data driven fund-raising is practical steps to achieve your fund-raising goals using data and they’ve integrated case studies included and demystifying the donor experience guide you through creating a donor journey. That donor journey map plus savvy stewardship strategies. You find those two resource is on the listener landing page at Tony Dahna may slash pursuant capital P for please. All right, now, back to stay secure in twenty. Nineteen. Right. Jordan sometimes might take these brakes. I forget where we were, but I did not forget where we are. This time. But future breaks, I may ask you, Teo, be my crutch. Remind me what? That we were just talking about. OK, so where you want to see this fusion between social progress and the technology tools that can enable it support it? We’re making inroads, though. I mean, there’s there’s tech impact. There’s a non-profit technology network there’s idealware. Let’s see, I just had a guest on and Mae Chang a few weeks ago talking about instead of lean, startup lean impact, you know, howto iterated and learn fast from buy-in in your in your non-profits. I mean, that’s sort of ah, that is broader than just technology. But she was taking that technology that that tech startup theory of lean impact from Eric Reese and applying it here to non-profits. I feel like we’re making inroads, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. Which is not where you want it or not, where you want to be yet, right? I think you know the corporate world is really good about innovating rapidly and figuring out new things, Teo. New products to bring to market and new ways to capture the public attention and so forth. I mean, there was really good at it. That’s what they do. And I feel like the non-profit and civil society space. You know, it’s so focused on its core work, which is some of the most important work being done out there, right? You know, it is life saving work. It is world saving work that they don’t necessarily have much time to throw at considerations that might seem, in some ways, like overhead. You know, obviously fund-raising that one is a given, right? Everyone needs to do that. Yeah, but way. I’ll know that mandate all too well, but there are other things that are perhaps equally important, like keeping abreast of what opportunities are out there in the way of technical tools that could really help, you know again, reach more people or make your operations more efficient or save money or saved. The’s are all important investments and unfortunately, overhead. Gotta bad label several years ago. But, you know, Ah, non-profit radio were always bristling at that. That that thought that, Oh, you know, if it’s not direct service related, it’s wasted money and people won’t. Our donors won’t understand it on DH. They’ll think that we’re not good stewards of the money that they give us. That’s that that thinking has got to go out because we’re talking about investment in your organization and your people and in the services that you’re providing. That’s exactly right. Yeah, I mean and invested time and money to end up with a better, more efficient, leaner you gnome or impactful and state like that’s just there’s no way around it, right? I mean, you can’t deny that the most Well, I was gonna say most admired companies, Let’s just say the wealthiest cos whether they’re most admired. That’s ah, value judgment, but that you can’t deny that they’re constantly investing in in themselves in their people. Amazon, Google, Facebook. Was that Fang Netflix? You know, the company’s heir, constantly investing in technology, and there’s a lot of lessons to be learned in those types of investments. Oh, most definitely. And I think you know, I I also share your frustration with the whole idea that overhead is a bad thing because you know, it doesn’t matter and you know not to stare at their do it, Lee. But information security is often seen his overhead right. It’s something that you have to deal with on a regular basis. You know, you do it right. It’s always in the back of your mind and always take some resource is an attention, and you don’t really see immediate, tangible benefits because by definition, good security is not getting broken into right. And it’s hard to measure the value of a negative. I know, until, of course, you do get broken into and you see just how bad it can be. So I completely agree. I think overhead is a sort of A I wish it were not a bad term, but since it is, let’s get rid of it and call it something like, you know, core structural support, investment. That’s what investment you’re investing. Exactly. Yeah, that’s even better. And people understand that. And you’re asking people to invent me? If you’re talking to donors, you’re asking them to invest and you’re investing in the work that they’re investing in. You just give it to you, and you invest duitz. Okay? All right, Let’s school. Good. Uh, love that opening. So let’s let’s get to some some details. Tech impact has this excellent resource which we’re goingto sort of talk through. So if you could just goto tech impact dot or GE, is that the way to get it? I got it. But I forget, how did what did I do? You go to Tech Impact or GE. And then where, then Eleanor website. There’s a whole bunch of menus, and there’s a menu item for things that we do on underneath that there is a security section and I’ll go there. You’ll get brought Teo Page that ask you for just basic information. And then you get a quick security checklist of the top things that you can do is a non-profit or honestly, for that matter, as any kind of organisation or even a person to be safer in a world that is getting less safe. Okay, Yes. And I I want to thank Thank you that I appreciated that it was very minimal information that you asked for sometimes to get the resource, you know? Yes, it’s free. But you have to give up your your physical address. Ah, phone number. You know, I bristle it that for this resource, it was this name and email. That was it, that’s all. And that’s all I asked for When people join our list. Name and email. So thank you for that. Thank you for not going overboard with data collection. You know, I mean privacy, because then you have to preserve lead right to you. If you take my address, then you will have to preserve it and secure it. All right, So we’re gonna get to that. OK? Eso what kinds of risks are you concerned about your welcome to share client stories. I know you. You know, you do direct work with clients non-profits clients. So what types of risk air you seeing? So I think I unfortunately have gotten pretty Harry particularly. I would say over the past year, twenty eighteen was not a good year in so many ways. So what we’ve seen is that, ah, the tax that previously were targeted, let’s say, mostly at bigger fish especially, you know, corporate fish are now coming downstream to smaller organizations. And that is ah, indicative of AA few things. One important thing to understand about the space of ideas, security or insecurity, if you like, is that it is and has been for a while. It is dominated by big, actually corporate actors. I mean, These are international crime syndicates who exist in their their core business model is to break into other organizations and steal their intellectual property. Used there are rather abuse their infrastructure. For other, you know, malicious reasons just generally do as much damage as possible. Like steal half a billion addresses and credit card numbers from it was, Well, Marriott, Whatever the weight of a company emerged with Marriott last year. Spring him not Spring Hill, but Starwood Starwood, right. Half a billion addresses, credit card, a data passport information for some people compromise. And that’s just one example of yeah, well, you go back, you know, even a couple of years. And, you know, many, many big names just, you know, fly off the pages of a Home Depot. There was target argast, you know, the Office of Management and budget in the federal government like you be. These attackers have targeted very successfully the some of the largest institutions out there that have truly massive databases of personal information. But Betsy’s coming down, proceed. You Ah, go and steal people’s identities or you know what? They generative process, right? They take the information that they’ve stolen, and they use it to try to extract as much value from that data set and then build dated today to set further. So they might use those emails to send more spam, encouraging people to log into a fake. You know, Google, Sinan Page or something and thereby build their database even further on. And they really refined this. It’s not a technique, it’s a hole. World of techniques, really. It’s a business model over several years. Two at the point where it’s really a precision engineered process, and they have a specialization. They’re different parts of this black market ecosystem that specialize in breaking into accounts. They’re different ones that specialize in spamming. They’re different ones of specialized in setting up and distributing attack tool kits that make it even make it easy for people to start performing these attacks. So there’s a lot of specialization, a lot of a lot of different firms engaged in this process, and there’s a CZ. You pointed out this billions of dollars to be made in compromising organizations. Now rhetorically again. And even now, of course, the Holy Grail, if you will, is to break into a target or a Home Depot or something because they have millions upon millions of records, latto payment information and so on. But of course, you know, this is an arms race, and so the big companies have gotten somewhat better at securing themselves. Many of them have been hacked and therefore have been paying a lot of attention to their borders and making sure that you know they’re relatively safe and At the same time, the attacks have gotten cheaper to run because they’ve been systematized and really reached a sort of industrial level of scale, which means that it is easy and cheap to run attacks against smaller and smaller organizations profitably. And so that’s exactly what’s been happening is that, um, these very sophisticated attack tool kits and procedures have been used to go after smaller and smaller organizations. Ah, and another important thing to understand is that most of this work is not at all targeted. It’s very opportunistic. So you know, a. A big crime syndicate will get a big list of E mail addresses by way of breaking into a company’s database. And you know, there’ll be all sorts people on that on that email list. You know, private individuals, partners of the company and so on. And the attackers will just use that database and send out fairly generic phishing emails to everyone on the list on the assumption that sure most people will recognise this email that’s coming in is not actually asking to reset their Gmail password. But even one percent of the people on that you know, many million person list do actually take the bait that represents thousands and thousands of more accounts they’ve just broken into and a hand that can now use to execute even more attacks. And so there’s a lot of daisy chaining that’s going on here a lot of building on prior work or prior attacks to create even Mohr devastating attacks that target even more people. And so the non-profit space is sort of squarely in the sights of this black market ecosystem now. And so, you know, at any given day I c e mails coming in both to Tech impact itself and to our partners, who then forward them on to me. You know, maybe somewhere between five and ten fairly well crafted emails. Ah, on all sorts of subjects. You know, some of them say your Gmail account has been compromised. Please click here to reset your password. I saw a brilliant one just yesterday purportedly from American Express saying something is wrong with your card. You need to click here to review some another as transactions. This email wass spectacular. He had all the right branding. It was formatted exactly right. All of the links in the email even went to valid American Express Web pages except the big click Here button, which set you to the attack Paige that tried to get you to divulge your log in information for your American Express account. You’re saying that was very high level of sophistication mary-jo right now, very hot again, basically targeting everyone at this point. Okay. And that was very high quality, so very equality. And I mean, I think the big theme is I have seen a steady progression of the quality. So it started out, you know, in let’s say, Well, that’s a year ago, January of last year, Most of the stuff I was seeing was pretty shoddy, right? It had lots of spelling errors, very little in the way of visual branding. Um, you know, the formatting was terribly off. The email address didn’t look even remotely convincing. But you know the email I got yesterday again, everything about it was perfect. Except that one button and even the button. I mean, it was, well formatted. You would have to actually hover over it and noticed that the link point somewhere other than an American Express. But Paige Teo be able to tell that anything was wrong. Okay? S so natural. You know, next question is, what the hell are we going to do about this? So you’re you’re resource papers, got ideas, and you really want to start not with the technology, but with your people. Exactly. There’s a misconception in the general, you know, world at large that because this is a high tech problem, it must have Ah, hi tech solution. And more to the point that you know that high tech solution probably going to cost a lot of money. And it is true that there are some high tech solutions out there or I wouldn’t call them high tech. I would just call them, you know? Yes. Technical solutions. None of them are that involved. And, you know, you shouldn’t have to pay that much, if anything, for most of them. On the most effective solution to this kind of problem, um, is getting your team, your staff on board with the project of keeping the organization’s safe and helping them to understand just how pervasive and sophisticated the threats really are. You know, it’s hard to get a bunch of dedicated, hardworking, you know, non-profit staffers into a room for an hour and get them to listen to a lecture on you know how they need to care about security. You know, for all the reasons we talked about you so much rather be getting their work done. But if you can get your team to understand that this is the risk Israel, the threats are, you know they’re significant and growing. I get people to just adopt a stance of reasonable vigilance, you know, not full blown paranoia, but just being a little bit, you know, thoughtful about everything they click on, whether it be an E mail that comes in from that they weren’t expecting, even if it comes from someone they know. Because part of this whole like iterative process in the attack space is that attackers will break into an email account and then send emails to every single person in that now hijacked account’s address book so that the emails do, in fact, come from someone that that person know you can’t even now just say, Oh, as long as I know the person, it’s fine may very well not be fine because you maybe not. But when you open an email and you’re not expecting it. And I’d ask you to go. You know, you this special report that, you know, if for your eyes only and what not especially if the person that you, uh, get this email from would never write that way. That should be a red flag. And similarly, whenever you’re browsing online, you need to be vigilant about what you click on you. No, don’t click obviously, on anything that says you’ve won a thousand dollars, because that is never true either. It’s certainly not true in real space, and it’s doubly not true online. And, you know, you always just have to be a little bit, you know, a little bit suspicious in back of your head. Think, Okay. Could there be another you No ulterior motive here? Like what? What’s the agenda of the person who sent me this thing or, you know, showing me this web page? Um, you know, is that someone I trust on? Do I have some context for why I’m being asked to enter my password here or provide this information Or click on this button? Um, is this going to do what I wanted to do? And if you can adopt that kind of a mind set and get your entire team to adopt that kind of a mind set. You become exponentially safer than most other folks around. Because this is a new mindset. It’s hard to shift your thinking, particularly the non-profit space, where we operate largely on the basis of trust. Right? You know, we have a lot of partners. Uh, you know, we have to trust that our partners are also interested in doing the same good work that we are. You know, we don’t want to wander around being endlessly suspicious of everyone, but unfortunately, the state of security online. Yeah. Yeah, You really have to be all the more vigilant. We just We just have about two minutes before break, tell us what’s been going on at Tech. Impact yourself. You’re you’re you’re CEO. You’re some sort Your CFO has been getting emails that purportedly come from your executive director. Oh, yeah. And we’re not alone. So the more sophisticated version of we’ve only really talked about one type of attack. And there are others that we might want to talk about. But, you know, let’s go quickly. There’s a different variant that isn’t quite fishing. So fishing is trying to get you to divulge your own personal information over email. But there’s a variant of that attack where someone writes into an organization pretending to be someone high up in the leadership team, the executive director or the CFO or someone like that and ask various members of the staff, Oh, I’m out of the office right now, but I really need you to conduct a transaction for me. I need you to buy some gift cards. Some of them get really creative, and they say, and they and they do their background research. And they say, Uh, we just had this annual conference, and I need to send gift cards to all of our speakers. Could you go out and buy those for me and then send me the codes from the back of those gift cards so I can, you know, send them along to peep folks by email. Those e mails, when they’re well done, can look exactly like they come from the executive director of the C. F O or whoever. And of course they don’t. And if you reply to them and do what they ask, you will be sending all sorts of things potentially financial information out to someone you’re never gonna be able to find again. Because they set up a fake e mail account for the purpose of trying to infiltrate your organization. And once they’ve done that, they’re going to get rid of it, and it’s going to be on Treyz schnoll. All right, we’re going where we’re going to take a take a break. And when we come back, I want youto continue this because I’m going to ask Ah, Jordan, how could this possibly happened? Attack impact. Okay, so ah, stand by for that weather. CPAs nufer the New Year. They’re kicking off a remote non-profit roundtable. Siri’s. They used to just be on location. Now they’re doing it remotely. Livestreaming each quarter a wagner’s C P a C P a will cover a topic that they’re intimately expert in. So they’re the experts, but you need to have a basic understanding of it. All right. I mean, you want to know what you want to have a rough idea of what you’re seeing is doing and what to do in the non-profit realm. That’s what they’re talking about. The first one is on January fifteenth about revenue recognition for your grants and contracts, you goto wagner cps dot com Click Resource is than seminars Now Time for Tony. Take two. It’s time for you to be an insider. A non-profit radio insider also nufer the New Year. I’m kicking off something expanded guest interviews that are going to be exclusively for non-profit radio insiders. Each week, I’m going to dive a little deeper into a topic with a guest or cover something we didn’t talk about on the show in these three to five minute videos. All right, the video is going to be on a private playlist entirely for insiders. Have you become an insider? Sounds like something that you would have to pay for. And you’re right. It does sound that way, but you don’t have to pay. Other people might charge for something like this, but I will not. Ah, all I do. All you do is go to twenty martignetti dot com. Click the insider alerts, button name and email Like George and I were just talking about that’s all you got to give and you become an insider. Tony martignetti dot com. Now let’s go back to Jordan on DH Stay secure in twenty nineteen Jordan How could this happen to tech impact? No. The unfortunate thing is this is really easy to do, and it’s easy to do for someone with not that much technical skill. And just because you get one of these emails that looks really carefully crafted and whatnot doesn’t mean anything has actually been weak or that you’ve been broken into every one of us as an organization has tons of information about us online, right? Certainly the names of our executive directors are incredibly easy to find. If nothing else, you can get them from our tax returns, right? And attackers again have built out this elaborate process that involves doing some basic background research on any organization that they want to attack. I’m sure that they go to the organization’s websites and maybe even look at their tax forms and find out other things about the organization’s. Actually, I read recently that many of these militias actors air now doing extensive Lincoln research on a particular people within an organization is they’re trying to go after, so you don’t know what they’re doing. They built the whole process around this on. They use the publicly available information to construct, you know, eh uh, intact. It is as plausible as they can make it. So, you know, if they see a mention on the Web site that there was a annual conference recently, they might throw that into the E mail again to try to make it that much more authentic. They might mention someone else on the team and say, Oh, you know, like, you know, pretend that the message was coming from your executive director. Oh, I tried to contact, You know, Jim our c F. O. And he was out of the office, but I really need this done. Can you help? It is very common behavior. Now, I will say each second a background research. That hacker does represent one less second of profit. Right. They don’t want to put in that much time. So you know, you shouldn’t worry generally unless you are really, really big and really, really interesting about, you know, hypothetical attackers scouring your web page and every other thing you’ve done publicly for information about you. They’re not going to do that, but it probably will spend, you know, a minute looking at the stuff they confined most easily. And then they’re gonna construct attacks based on what they found, uh, and make it seem like you know the emails. They’re sending our legitimate as possible. They also will do that, actually, not only even just pretending to be part of the organization, they will also try to extort you and say, you know, I found out all of this fallacious information about, you know, your executive director, or you know what your organisation’s doing on. They’ll drop some publicly available details that aren’t even remotely interesting and say, But I have so much Mohr and, you know, if you don’t want us to go out, then you have to pay me a lot of money. I actually saw entire wave of the attacks last month, and they they weren’t particularly well done. But they bothered to do a little bit of background research. So the bottom line is you’re going to get these emails on. They will contain information about you and that should not be as big of a red flag You as you might think. You shouldn’t respond to them. You shouldn’t do anything except, you know, look at them carefully make sure that there isn’t anything in there that really is private and that someone has figured out, because if that’s the case, you need to do a lot more work to get things locked down. Um, and again, just be suspicious. Don’t believe someone when they ask you to do something, you know, unless you have actually had a conversation about that request before. Better yet, I encourage every organization to have a basic policy that says no one in the organization is going to ask anyone else to authorize a financial transaction or a password reset or anything sensitive over email alone. That’s just never gonna happen, and it’s never going to be allowed. You always have to actually talk to the person who’s making the request to confirm that they, in fact, made it before anybody acts on anything. Sounds like a sound policy. Okay, Labbate. Let’s let’s bring it back to what we can do to protect our organizations. So after staff training, what what would you say is next? So after staff training and then again, building a sort of culture of vigilance and everyone being it together on everyone having each other’s back, I would say there are some basic technicals. Defense is you can put in place. Um, because the most dominant type of attacks that we’re seeing right now are definitely email based and identity based. That is, they’re trying to convince you that you know, the attacker is someone they’re not, or and most often there, trying to steal your own account credentials and then use them for exactly the same purpose. One of the best things you can do to protect identity online is too not used, just a password alone. Wherever possible, passwords are kind of outdated security mechanism. They were only added back, you know, twenty thirty years ago, when the original researchers who were building Internet realized Oh, really? You know, not everybody should have the ability to read everybody else’s email without a password. That’s how open everything wass until they tacked on the password, kind of as an afterthought to fix the security hole and a force. As the Internet has evolved to do all sorts of incredibly sensitive things. The password as a security mechanism really hasn’t kept up to speed. It’s not good enough for the level of security. We really need of our bank websites and our social services websites and our, you know, electronic health record websites. So there’s a new standard which itself is not perfect. Nothing ever will be, but it’s a whole lot better than just a user name and password. And this technique or technology is called a couple of different things depending on who you talk to. But they all mean the same thing. You can hear the phrase, multifactorial indication or dual factor authentication or two step verification and all of those terms mean you can. You still have a user name and password, but you also need to supply something else whenever you log in to prove that you are who you claim to be, so that someone who managed to steal someone’s password can’t get in with John. That stuff this is this is Well, I think it’s we’re starting to see this. I see it on a lot of options, you know? Do you want to enable? I usually see there’s, like, two factor authentication, and this is where it’s a code will be sent to your to your phone number to your to your cell, and then you have to enter that number into the site that you’re tryingto log into is that yes, we’re talking about. That’s exactly right in the core idea There is. It’s actually just terrifyingly easy to steal someone’s username and password, particularly if you build a Web page. It looked exactly like the Gmail log in Paige, but it’s going very, very difficult for someone to simultaneously steal someone else’s phone. It is possible are, but it’s just so much so non-profits can implement this a CZ. When people come in in the morning latto log onto the system, they have to provide two factor authentication. You can do that. I would say it’s less important to do that on, you know, your PCs, you know, so that when you grow up coming in the morning, you have to go to this process. Certainly, hospitals do do that. Everyone has, you know, their little cars, that they swipe against some sort of scanner and that that council there’s there in a second factor. But most of us, I think, are now using something like Google Sweet or Office three sixty five, which is accessible from anywhere. And that’s where the attacker’s really have a have a party right they can get because you could get into the system from anywhere. The attackers can get in from Russia, Thailand, South Africa, lots of various places where they tend to work out on. And so those kinds of cloud based systems, as convenient as they are, also present a pretty big security risk that literally anyone on Earth put attack. And so those are the platforms where you really want to make sure you have multi factor authentication turned on. And the good news is, in most of these platforms, turning on multifactorial education is free and pretty easy. It’s, you know, there’s a few steps to it, but you basically just go to someone’s account. You say this person should now be required to use this second, you know, step verification or multi factor authentication. You have to have your your team signed up. You know, basically, just put in their phone number that they want to receive those authorisation codes at and then you’re done. That’s it. You know, they’re they’re logging process is going to be a little bit harder in some cases, but the whole it’s pretty painless and it’s so affected by locking these kind of so much worth the extra minute that it takes just to enable this, okay? Let’s say we got We got a couple minutes before another break, so give us No, we have to go to a break. Sorry. My mistake. So hang on there, Jordan. Think. Think of the next thing we’re going to talk about Xero tell us. Can use more money. Do you need a new revenue source? This is your long stream of passive revenue that you get when companies that you refer process credit card transactions through. Tell us watch the video. Send potential companies to watch the video. After you do, you go when you want to see it first. And then if they use, tell us for processing you. Your NON-PROFIT gets fifty percent of the fee for each transaction. This adds up small dollars. Adding up the video is that tony dot m a slash Tony. Tell us time for live listener love. We’ve got to do it. There’s so much of it. I get it. I get three sheets of paper, but do not. Eight and a half by eleven sheets. Uh, Northvale, New Jersey. The live love to Northvale, New Jersey. Wow, Northvale. Hello. That’s like that’s two minutes from where I grew up in uh, old Japan. Ah, New Bern, North Carolina. Live Love to you, Carmel, California Paddocks. Kala Patasse, Piela, Ohio Pascal or Patasse Piela Live Love goes out. However you pronounce it even if you pronounce it differently than either of those two ways. Live loves going to Ohio. Jacksonville Beach, Florida Atalanta. Oh, California Tampa, Florida All right, Awesome. Lots of live listener love today. And let’s go abroad. Uh, why wouldn’t we? No reason not to, um Tokyo and Cicada. Oh, Japan. Wonderful. Konnichi wa Hanoi, Vietnam. Ah, Social Korea, on your own. Haserot comes a ham Nida for our Korean listener. Beijing, Beijing, China. Of course we know d how everybody knows that Mexico City, Mexico I was always said, guten tag. No, that’s not right. Mexico City. Mexico would be good afternoon. What a star days when a star dies. Of course. Iran. That’s not guten tag either. But Iran is listening. Laos and Egypt. Well, look. Ah, Middle East. Checking in love it Lots of live love going out to all those people. And they maybe others that we can’t see. Sometimes there’s masked cities, et cetera. Um and ah, the podcast pleasantries. The podcast pleasantries have to go out to our over thirteen thousand podcast listeners right on the heels of the live list. Their love comes my gratitude to our the bulk of our audience, which is sitting podcast in the time shift. Whatever time device, however, you squeeze non-profit radio into your life, whether it’s Sunday nights or Saturday mornings. Pleasantries to you. Very glad that you’re with us. Thank you. Okay, we’ve got several more minutes left for we got lots of time left. Oh, yeah. We got latto two time left for Jordan McCarthy and stay secure in twenty nineteen. What’s next? Jordan? What? What should we attack after we take on too factor with simple enabling of two factor authentication? I don’t want to sound like I don’t make it sound is difficult. Once we once we checked out off, where should we go next? It is really not not hard at all again, just so valuable. So we talked about fishing. We talked about email based attacks on identity based attacks. Again, I would say they are the most frequent, Andi increasingly sophisticated type of attack we’re seeing so that definitely your number one priority, I would say. But then there’s a whole other universe of things that also are happening at the same time. So let’s talk about malware and others have more software based attack. So in addition to the attackers, just constantly, you know, trolling around, trying to find people who they can trick into divulging their passwords. There also constantly scanning every system connected to the Internet to see if those systems are susceptible to various kinds of software attack that can sort of worm their way onto PCs, possibly even then spread to other PCs on the network. Um, and again, all these attacks, very opportunistic, automated. It’s very rare that you’ll see someone actively targeting you because they care about you. They just want a, you know, hit the low hanging fruit. Um, but that means they’re going to put up a malicious file that looks like, I don’t know, maybe a pdf of, you know, um, various discount code for something that that’s that’s a common technique. Or or even better yet, a free version of Adobe Photo Job. Right, look, one one deal. What, one day deal, you know, download adobe photo job for nothing here, right? Of course, that’s ridiculous. That would never happen. And if you click on that link and download the software, you may get some variant of Adobe. But you’re also going to get a boat load of malicious software along with it. And once that software is on your machine, that could do anything it wants. Pretty much, you know, they can watch every keystroke that entered into the BC. It can even take video and audio recordings. It can hijack the computing a network power of the PC and use it to attack other targets. Um, until malware is Avery Big deal. And it’s producing a pretty big deal because the most rallies not even that recent anymore, but one of the more modern variants or evolutions of malware. Let’s say it’s called crypto ransomware, which is a mouthful. But what that basically means is this malware is very sophisticated and what it does. Once it gets onto a machine, it takes a look around. It finds every file. It looks like it might contain something useful to you. So every word document, every picture, every email, takes all of that data and steals it, put it into an encrypted archive, delete the original copies from your computer entirely, and then puts up a message on the screen saying, We have your files. If you ever want to see them again, you have to pay us about a thousand dollars. That was last year. The British medical system, right? And the entire city of Atlanta. All right, let’s get to what we can do. The help mitigate the likelihood minimized. I know we can’t prevent. What can we do to minimize the likelihood of this? So when you were talking about malware again, the number one thing going back even earlier discussion is, too promote that culture of vigilance and thoughtfulness. But technical safeguards there your most powerful defense of your software systems and your system security is to keep your systems up to date and that that sounds deceptively simple for anyone who’s actually tried to do it. You know, it’s next to impossible because everyone is very busy and no one wants to take the time to reboot their computer ten times a day to keep everything up to date. So it’s a challenge. But there are various tools that can help you do that shit. Um, e-giving mind when I say keeping up to date? I’m talking about not only your computer’s operating system so Windows or the Mac OS. I’m also talking about your phone operating system, whether it be Android or IOS. I’m also talking about various programs on your PCs, especially Web browsers on other boardmember that connect to the Internet quite a bit from all of that needs to be kept up to date because any one of those pieces could theoretically, if they get out of date, be broken into by one of these automated attack phones. Khun B phones could be turned. Phones could be turned around into microphones against you, right? Exactly. And you know, phones or general purpose computers, too. So if the phone gets compromised, theoretically, you could end up You know, using that phone is a launching point onto other devices are connected to it. OK, what are we going to do? What? You scared us enough. You scared me. And it was very good, too. Sorry. Didn’t get a little bit late for Halloween anyway, so there’s a few tools that can help you. There are tools that very simply watch all of the program’s installed on your PC and alert you. If any of them get out of date, some of them will automatically install patches for those tools for you on. Most of them are free. You know, if you just do a quick online search for, you know, keep my PC updated, that kind of thing. You’ll get some good options whenever you download anything online. As part of this, you know, theme of vigilance. You wantto look for reviews, make sure other people have used that tool and like it. But there are a lot of tools out there to do this work. That’s very ad hoc, right? Each piece he would have to have that installed, and, you know, someone could uninstall it. It would be kind of messy for organizations that are I would say above, let’s say ten people inside. It probably makes sense to aim for some degree of centralization. Uh, you can monitor and enforce the prompt application of software updates for both the operating system and other applications on there’s a variety of tool kits that can do this that there’s a too big name, um, types of rockets that are useful in this case. One of them is called a mobile device. Management took it. And again, if you do a quick Web search for mobile device management, you’ll find a bunch of different options. Um, some of the big players in the space there include things like Microsoft in Tune, Cisco Air Watch, um, IBM mas three sixty and there are a bunch of others. But those are just some that come to mind, and those are really, really good at managing the security of mobile. As their name suggests mobile devices. So many of them focusedbuyer merrily on the the mobile phone space. But many of them can also handle desktops and laptops as well for desktops and laptops. Then there’s another tool kit or a type of tool kit that really focuses in on that space and those air remote management and monitoring toolkit abbreviated are. Mm. On the first one was abbreviated mdm tonight. We love acronyms. I’m not really sure why, but but thankfully, you kept yourself out of jargon jail by actually using the full name before you even said that with him. So yeah, I get that way. That’s why we have debts when non-profit idea has jargon jail. Oh, thank you. I What? All right, finish your sentence, and then we gotta take our last break. Okay? So remote management and Mandarin monument and management and monitoring tools do exactly what I proposed. It needs to be done. They help you watch species for anything that might need to be updated and get those that they supplied promptly. They can also do more than that. They can watch and monitor and a virus programs which are not actually as useful as you might think. So that’s why I didn’t put them first on my list. Keeping yourself repeated is actually more important than having antivirus programs in place generally. But it is a good last line of defense. And these talk is gonna help make sure that those you’ll stay in place and are updated as well. All right. Jordan and Jordan, Wait. Take your last break. When we come back from this break, I want you to list list again. The resource is that you named so that people can have a place to ah t check out and you know, the ones that you believe are our sound. Do you think hoexter give can use more money again? I need a new revenue source. Here’s another way. Mobile e-giving. You could learn about it with text to gives five part email. Many course. Now, this is an E mail that is bona fide. So you don’t have to worry about is being a phishing e mail. You know, you’re just five e mails away through this many course. One each day from raising more money are raising money to get started through mobile giving. It’s cheap to get started. Its easy for your donors. The way to start the many course. You text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine nine. All right. And we still got several more minutes. Force they secure in twenty. Nineteen with Jordan McCarthy. Alright, Jordan, what’s your What’s your list of resource is that users can trust. So first of all users listening listeners, listeners, contrast. Who’s you? Well, they are users, too, but listeners is what we’re talking about here. You want to look at whatever vendors you use and you want to see. You wanna have a look at what they say about their own security? So, you know, look at go to the web page of, you know, blackbaud sales force, Microsoft, Google and, you know, just say all right. Tell me about your security. What do you do? What do you offer? What can you help me to nail down? Okay, because many of these platforms will have a lot of security features built in that you may not be taking advantage of. So start simple. Start free. You use a totally ordinary included but may not know about you already included. Ok, then you want to start looking for other resource is to tell you you know, about what else you, Khun Dio? What else? What what? What are the sort of tools of record that really are effective and secure and we’ll increase your security So I mean not to be too self promoting, but idealware is a phenomenal resource for this kind of thing. That haserot hutchisson tons of resources and listeners know that idealware idealware knows dimension of, you know, I, including security brought up Yes. Objective, objective, objective. Other indexes as well. So if you look at sites like PC World, um, com p world ars technica Wired, they usually do reviews of various security tools I go to them routinely to see. All right, what is the latest on the mobile device management tool kit? There really top notch? What antivirus programs are recommended this year because they always cycle in and out. Okay, no. In terms of the tools that I use quite a bit and trust, I would call out for things like authentication. Obviously, Office three sixty five and the Google Sweet are phenomenal talk it They can both do a lot for you in terms of keeping things safe and helping you to monitor the security of your communications and your files and everything. So either this platform’s, I think are exemplary. And both have built in multi factor authentication. You just need to turn it on. Um, if you’re looking for something that can be, go beyond those core platforms and spanning multiple product, you might want to look at. Ah, couple of tool kits that focused squarely on authentication, safeguarding identity. Those tools are duo. Do you and octa O K E A. And these They’re both really big names in the space of again. Just making sure that people’s identities were kept saying that they cannot get attacked by simply divulging their passwords. Both of them provide multifaceted indication toe a wide range of other tools so you could end up just logging in with your duo or octa credentials and then be granted access to a bunch of other things. But but in a very secure way. Okay, excellent. We just have about a minute left. Jordan. So I feel like we did enough on why you should be paying attention to this. Let’s not. Let’s not wrap up with that. But I’ll leave it to you. How do you want to close? You got a minute? I think I would say that. You know, things are pretty scary right now, and I don’t want to sugarcoat that way. As you say. We said enough about it, but there is a lot that any given non-profit Khun do it doesn’t It’s not rocket science. You know, you might be told that you need to pay a butt load of money or hyre, you know, a really fancy consultant to tell you what to do. Ah, and if you find it helpful, sure, by all means, go and get some help. And you know, if you want a lightweight approach or even something more in depth, tech impact is here to help where we’re more than happy to meet you at whatever level the support you need. But having said that, a lot of this stuff is really not that difficult. It can be done by someone who just has the time. I mean, that’s sort of our all of our scarcest resource. I know. So that’s easier said than done. But if you have the time and you know, you can set aside some resources to dig in and turn on mold a factor authentication and figure out how to keep yourself up to date, you were going to be so much safer as a result. And for most non-profits, that’s exactly what they need to do as long as they are safer. Than the average. They are totally not interesting. Okay, hackers we got Okay, We got to leave it there. Don’t be interesting. Two attackers. Ah, he’s Jordan McCarthy. Infrastructure and security of the tech impact. You’ll find them at tech impact dot or GE, which is where you’ll find there the resource paper with even more ideas. And they are at tech. Underscore impact. Thank you so much, Jordan. It’s really a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks. My inside a video with Jordan. We’re going to talk about single sign on next week. The annual zombie loyalists replay with Peter Shankman. His customer service ideas are excellent, so it’s very worth Well, he worth replaying it. Do it every year. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant Capital P. Well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text n p. R. To four four four nine nine nine. A creative producer was Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and his music is by Scott Stein. You with me next week for Non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent Go out and be great. What duitz? You’re listening to the talking alternative network you get to thinking. Things xero. You’re listening to the talking alternative now, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. 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Nonprofit Radio for November 2, 2018: Working Virtual & Map Your Data To Your Audiences

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Heather Martin & Alice Hendricks: Working Virtual
We talk through the issues encountered when managing remote staff: technological; generational; emotional; measurement; recruiting and retaining. Our panel is Heather Martin from Interfaith Family and Alice Hendricks with Jackson River. (Recorded at #18NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference.)

 

 

Courtney Clark & David Mascarina: Map Your Data To Your Audiences
Feed your folks the data they crave. Courtney Clark and David Mascarina have identified 5 audience types and their data needs. She’s with Forum One and he’s from the Conrad N. Hilton Foundation. (Also recorded at #18NTC.)

 

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with strep. Oh, simba, leah if i had to read that you missed today’s show working virtual we talk through the issues encountered when managing remote staff technological, generational, emotional measurement, recruiting and retaining. Our panel is heather martin from inter faith family and alice hendricks with jackson river. I was recorded at eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference and map your data to your audiences. Feed your folks the data they crave. Courtney clarke and david mask arena have identified five audience types and their data needs she’s with forum one and he’s fromthe conrad and hilton foundation that’s also recorded at eighteen. Auntie si, tony, take two who’s on first, we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising david driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com bye! Tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Here’s working virtual welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we’re coming to you from the convention center in new orleans second interview of the second day of our coverage all our ntcdinosaur interviews are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests right now are heather martin, ceo of inter paid family, and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. Heather alice, welcome. Thank you. Welcome to non-profit radio. What have you wanted to be here? How’s? The conference going for you ladies? Great. Have you done? Yeah. Excellent. Okay, great. Next one. That goes good. Superlative. Have you done your session yet? We did. We were on yesterday morning. Okay. So, it’s all relaxing now? Right now, we’re just partying. Drinks last night. Exactly. Okay, all right. Your workshop topic is working virtual attracting and managing the best talent. I’m sure we have stats on how many organs non-profits have virtual employees. Or at least what the trends are. It’s it’s obviously growing. It’s really growing wouldn’t be here. And not only in the nonprofit world in the for-profit world as well, and especially in tech. Yeah, okay, absolutely it’s becoming it because of the technology that can enable easily to work from home, your chat technologies, videoconferencing, it’s become a thing and everyone is doing it now on exploring whether it works for their organizations a lot. Let me dive into the word, everyone not to quibble with you at all, but i was thinking generationally, are there fifty and sixty some things that are comfortable working, being virtual? Not well, maybe we’ll get to whether they’re comfortable having virtual employees. They will get to that. My voice is cracked like i’m fourteen get that, but how about being virtual employees themselves? Are they comfortable? I’m over fifty, so include myself in that? Are we comfortable doing that? Or, you know, i think it actually depends on the organization and it’s really dependent on the organization making the employees comfortable, and so i’m not sure i don’t know if you have any stats, but i don’t know from an age perspective, there’s a very good question about an older generation being comfortable having virtual employees under the managing them, however, as being the virtual employee, i think it’s all about how the organisation sets it up. Okay. Excellent. All right, so that there’s promised them for those fifteen. Sixty something? Absolutely. Okay. Okay, let’s, talk about it. Since since we’re skirting around it, how about comfort or discomfort with having employees being virtual when you’re over fifty? So i again, i i think that there might be an age discrepancy in the comfort, but i also think it’s just personality, and i’m finding that when i talked to a lot of people who are looking to work virtual and they’re asking me, what can i do to go to my manager, my supervisor and quote unquote, sell them on me working virtually my answer to them is find out what the resistance is. There is part of the resistance as we’ve always done it this way i need to see my employees to know that they’re working. And how do you get around that? Some of the key things that we talked about in our session are setting very clear goals and making sure that those goals are being met. But let’s, go to alice talk to flush out the gold. Gold setting a little. Yeah, i mean, i think that there’s not that much difference in terms of goal setting in terms of accountability for delivery, bols, that you’re supposed to be doing so used that the real issue is communication making sure you have a structure where there’s frequent communication and proof that you’re doing the delivery ble. So you’re measured not on a punch clock style of i get to work at nine. And i leave at five. And therefore i must have worked during that eight hour period you’re measured based on what is the work you were set out to do. And did you actually do that work in the time period? I said i would do it. So if you’re a project manager are working on a program area you work with your you work with your supervisor on here, the things that i’m going to get done at a particular time. And if that’s not done that’s ah, that that could be a concerned that’s a problem, but that’d be a problem in the non workplace too, but rather than time. It’s mostly based on work product. Okay, okay. So that should apply even if you don’t have any virtual, i think one of the things we found is that working virtually is this, or managing virtually is the same as managing in an office. But you just have to be much more intentional about what you’re doing. Much more intentional about your communication, understanding that you’re not gonna have that water cooler conversation, that someone’s not going over here. Something and understand where you are in a project and b ready to communicate with those people who are not physically in the office. But the management and the psychology of the management is very similar. Okay, it’s, very valuable, you know, and make explicit. Yeah. How about attracting people, teo a virtual or attracting the right talent so that we’re comfortable that they’re gonna work in this work environment? What do you, what you thought? Well, there’s. Two thoughts on that that i have one is what one is that your talent pool is the entire country or world, should you see fit? And there are wonderfully talented people in places that aren’t in the city or town in which your organization is located, and it gives you this ability to recruit from a wide place. And you can also hyre incredibly talented people from who have a wonderful life style. In a less cost of in my organization, we have people who live in a lower cost of living state than washington, d c where were based, and that allows me to provide a living wage and for my employees in that. But the other thing is just you, when you’re recruiting, you have to be very mindful of the interview process, and i think one of the things we talked about in our session was helping people figure out who these folks, how well they’ll respond to working virtually how do you do that in an interview? Yeah, who’s best with that, heather so so some of the things that that we recommend, some of the things that we recommend is number one, we use technology as a tool to enhance communication in a virtual environment. So sometimes you’re using video comp, renting just for a regular meeting, and you’re talking through instant messenger and there’s other ways you’re using technology. So in the interview process, i always recommend that people use the technology that you’re going to require those employees to be using during their job if they can’t do an interview on skype or zoom or appearance and it’s very uncomfortable, it’s not to say that that might not be a good employee for you, but you have to be aware that there might need to be some training or development on that tool for them and no going. Into that is important when you’re hiring that person, and if you see generally a discomfort with technology that’s a pretty big red flag, or or or a red flag that you might need to overcome or that person’s not right for the position, and then the other question is some positions just don’t lend themselves to working virtually, and you have to be aware of that when you’re hiring also what are from? Well, one of the easiest ones that we look at it if you’re an office manager and you’re managing the physical office days, it’s really difficult to be virtual when you need thio notice that there’s a crack in the ceiling where the vendor needs toe, you know, deliver something and be their way. We don’t have a tool for measuring the coffee level. Zack remotely happen. And now there’s an app for that you can probably it’s time for a break pursuing they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They want you to see this because they’ve taken the secrets from the fastest growing startups and applied those to your non-profit it’s free as all the pursuant resource is, are you accustomed to that? Come on, it doesn’t even bear saying it’s on the listener landing page that’s at do you know where tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now back to working virtual or any others that stand out to you? I think it depends on the industry and what the job you’re doing. If you’re someone who does intake or you have to be there to welcome people into the office, you need someone physically there. There may be hybrids where sometimes people could work in the office and sometimes people could work from home. And i think thinking this through before you moved to a virtual environment or virtual job for that specific role is ki you can’t just say, ok, tomorrow we’re just gonna go virtual zoho alice, how do you how do you create this environment? Gonna be hospitable? Toe virtual? I mean it’s all about culture. You have to create a culture where everyone is communicating well with each other, where people know what the expectation is on response times of communication has got to start at the top. It has to start a willingness that you absolutely to accommodate virtual employees. Okay, so it starts there and how does that how does the ceo trickling down? You adhere to it. So rather than walking from my office into someone else’s office and telling them what i think they should know that maybe two other people who aren’t physically, they’re also need to know i will do that on a slack channel, for example. So i’ll use an instant messenger chat program, and i’ll put them all on the channel and talk to them all together at once, even though you were the mark, even if that’s the situation. Yeah, because it requires amount of discipline because you don’t want to leave people out. The interstitial conversation that happens at the water cooler can also be done virtually and that’s pretty important, too. Okay. All right. We’re going to get the tools you mentioned. Slack, slack channel. Is that that it’s? All okay, okay. A chat. It’s. Simple chance a chance. A chance for you. You’re over my head, but i’m trainable. Alt-right i could be a virtual employees trust way. Mind of some technology challenges there, but we could get there. I’ll be there immediately. Got the radio stuff? Yeah. I’m very good at that. I mean, i got knobs and everything in front of buttons and all. I don’t know what they do. Okay, what else? Uh, anything else about creating the environment, making inhospitable? I think some of the things that seem or some of the other things are making sure that your remote employees have the tools, whether it’s, the technology or even a monitor to go along with that laptop that you’ve given them because some some people who go into a new job, they’re given a laptop, they say work from home and it’s not as easy as just is your home office conducive and being able to help them think through what are the things that they need to set up in a virtual environment to make them successful and effective at what they’re doing. We talked about it a little bit about security and knowing what the security measures are. You can’t go into a coffee shop and work from your computer. Number one. Are you on the y fire you on the public wifi? Are you on a virtual private network? Are you using your hot spot? You’ve to go the bathroom and your computer’s sitting in starbucks do you leave it there and ask the person next youto watch your computer while you go to i mean, we set policies around these things, especially in organizations that have a lot of regulations on data and accessibility for their information. These are things you have to think about when you’re creating a virtual environment. Okay? It could be hip, baby what’s the credit card p c m p c i b c i okay, what do you do when you’re at starbucks alone? You’re on you’re on a vpn virtual private network? Yeah, you have to go the bathroom. You gotta close up. You use the diaper changing table in and you pull it down in the restroom and put your laptop on that. Take care of your business. Okay? It’s? Very. You know, i love the ditty gritty. This are listen, i mean, we’re all about real life here. Way need detail. You need clear policies around policies that people sign and everyone is very well aware of what the security policies, our protection use of technology. You said the company’s versus your pride, your personal technology home versus away from home. Okay, all right. Help me out here. Getting else what else belongs all this? What else belongs in our policy? Well, so there’s, we’re talking about there’s communication policies. How? I mean, one of the things that we found when we first started having more virtual employees. We started as an in office, evan was in the office, and as we grew into different communities, we had employees in different cities and states than our headquarters were located in and things like when i sent an email, i just need you to acknowledge that the email resent if you’re in the office and i send you an e mail and you haven’t responded, i could walk into your office and say, hey, you get my e mail even if you’re not ready to respond to it. I know you’ve gotten it, and by five o’clock that day, i’ll get an answer when someone’s virtual and you send an e mail, you have no idea if it got lost, did it go into their spam and you have to get some kind of communication with one quick got it. So we said a communication policy that says if i asked you something or requested something, you send an email back saying, i got it, and i’ll get back to you by wednesday period the end it’s all set, and so that that you need to be very much more aware of those types of things and other community way have communication policies that go along with that. Okay, alice, you want teo or policy statement? I mean, the security, i think, is the most important, you know, the email security, the hacking potentials. You know what happens also, when someone is let go, the lockout procedures, they have access to all of your systems, and they’re, you know, in north dakota somewhere to coffee shop, you have to shut down all of their access to things. So all of that needs to be planned at the level in the company. What are you going to do and how you handling staff with remote devices? Can we do this if we don’t have a dedicated staff person? And we don’t have a dedicated staff person? Yes, face-to-face so the family says the answer is yes, okay, because are you know, we’re small and midsize non-profits in this audience, listeners. So you you on board someone with technology when they leave, you do the same thing on lee with a virtual person, you don’t physically have them there, and so you have to do the same thing you would do if someone was in the office, but make sure you couldn’t do it while they’re not physically there. How did they get your computer back to you? Do they fedex it to you? Are you going to go pick it up somewhere if they’re not there? And so just those types of things need to be thought through, okay? No. Excellent. I love the policy statement details because this is stuff you have to think through, and then alice to your point, has to be activated, implemented on from the top absolutely can’t just have a policy and ignore it. You know, if if it’s the ceo hyre it’s a sea level person whose whose distant you know, they too have to say, i got your e mail and i’ll get back to you by wednesday, everybody has to play by the same rules. There shouldn’t be exceptions or any accommodations or anything else. Yeah. Okay, um, how about let’s talk about some of the needs that your remote staff has we’ve been talking about managing the office? What what special needs to the people? But we only see a couple of times a year that’s a great question, okay? I mean, i think they way it took that long, they need community, they need a partner, they need a buddy, they need to know that they’re not all alone. I’m so frequent meetings daily standup calls on dh heather’s organization native oppcoll standup called well, it’s a it’s, a phrase for a daily time when you just spend fifteen minutes sort of roll going around the company’s saying who’s doing what that day or our a team, if you’re working on a project together, you know everyone’s together on either a video chat or a conference call, or it could even be during us dahna slack channel or a skype group or a google hangout, or any type of technology that people can come together for a period of time. The more frequent that happens, the more connected they feel, and there is an issue of feeling lonely, it’s not that you’re just going off on your back room and typing all day long on your own, you need to be part of a community and part of a team. And the technology helps enable that. And heather’s organization there’s you do? What is it a buddy? So anyone who is new who comes on board there’s a couple things we do one is, no matter what level you’re at, you come to boston for a couple days, toe on board. You actually see physical people that’s probably essential. It’s, really? It was one of like he learnings when i started working virtually is to know that there’s a physical person and a physical space or just seeing meeting someone face-to-face gives you much more of a connection to them immediately. The other thing we do is when we hire people we kind of give them we give them a partner. So we hyre associate director her in l a and we put them with the associate director in atlanta. This is not a mentor. This is not a supervisor. This is someone you can ask the dumb questions too. Like, how do i get my expenses paid? Or i’m sure they told me this during orientation, but i don’t know what. To do about x, y and z and just having that person that you know you can go to is critical, especially when you’re by yourself in an office or in your home, and you’re trying to go up the learning curve of starting a new job. Okay? All right? What else? Uh, anything else to be a empathetic to our remote employees again, this is a typical management. I would say this you should be doing this any time is just everyone’s intent is good. Assume that is good and there’s a good intent all all the time. That could be that that that’s going to have implications for chatting any female? No, you can’t you’ll never hear the well, not never, but most of the communications you’re not going to hear the inflection in the person you don’t see the sometimes you don’t see the physical, you don’t see the physical, you don’t get the inflection, and so before you jump into anything or someone sent and i get this all the time and sends me an email and says i need blank, well, that could be taken in so many different ways. Are you demanding something from me did ice not get you something there’s so much in just those three words? And so my first thing is tio okay, they have good intentions. Let me follow-up you need blank by when? What is this for? Get mohr information, they’re not now. They could be like you haven’t done something, i need it now and could be screaming it could be screaming at you with the default is the default is not do that and what we do actually, as we have everyone’s created communications charter that says how they like to be interacted with. And so i understand if you are one of these people who sends very short emails, i also have the flipside where someone sends me seven paragraph emails to describe one thing. And so if i understand how you interact, i could read that email with that understanding, not teo immediately assume that you’re yelling at me in the e mails. Excellent. Okay, very valuable. Are anything else? Anything else to be supportive again? Empathetic to the remote employees if we covered it, recovered it? But i want to make sure we’re the only other thing i can think of is definitely getting together at least once a year with the whole team culture building wants that, yeah, it’s tough, it’s, tough in a non-profit environment where you’ve got a very tight budget, but we have prioritized and all in person meeting in boston, so we’ve got staff in california, in chicago, in atlanta and philadelphia. We make sure that we try in our budgeting process to bring everyone to boston for two days during the summer, not only for good brainstorming and thinking and strategy conversations, but also so they can connect with each other and have that community and build that in person conversation and feel comfortable with each other, and you feel like once a year is sufficient, you know, if i had the budget to do it more, i want a little longer, but all of that, yes. And so you have to take it for one of the that the tools that we talk about is the airplane. I mean, yes, it’s expensive, but it’s a really helpful tool to really get past some of the boundaries that are put up when you don’t actually physically meet in person. Alice, do you have a virtual employees also? Jackson river, thirty thirty. Thirty. Revoting entire organization is ritual. Oh, my god. Okay, where’s, the is there a physical office? There is a physical office with three people in washington d c yeah, but so we all behave as if were virtual. And there are many days that i don’t go into the office so in it. So you know, it saves a lot of money and transportation costs. It stays dry cleaning bills for everyone. It saves child care expenses. If you know it’s a very great way to have a lifestyle. Because yu yu have that flexibility, there’s also downsides to it. There are days that i wake up in the morning at six a, m and check email and all the sudden it’s too. And i haven’t eaten breakfast yet. And then i’m until six at night. So you know it’s a the same type of work-life integration needs to happen in a virtual environment as well as a physical office space. You know, you need to know how to take a break. You mentioned saving childcare expenses. So so the the remote employee it needs to be understood that the remote employee may not be immediately accessible right for a quick, you know, for for a last minute way gotta talk right now. So i think it’s about have something going on that is going to hold him up for ten or fifteen way try and make sure that people have adequate coverage to do their job during the day, the hours that they need to work. So we have a lot of employees that are at thirty hours a week because they want to spend more time with their families. Um, older children can be met at the bus stop and take care of themselves for a few hours in the afternoon, but the expectations of performance are still there. You know, we’re pretty high street standards of that, you know, we don’t want you to be distracted from your work. He managed the west coast versus east coast. Well, what is the west coast people have to do? The westfield people have to start at six a m local time. I think a lot of people do different policies on that. Our policy is that you work for the day that work the business day in the time zone in which you live. So it’s, sometimes hard if we’re dealing with europe and the west coast at at the same time because the time zones i don’t overlap is, well, every boy’s in europe, we don’t have employees in your body to have clients in europe. So it’s ah it’s a situation where we have to manage that, but there are organizations that have west coast people working east coast, ours you have that way don’t have explicit policy that you work those hours, but we ask people how early on the west coast, how early would you be willing to have a meeting? So we will not set meetings with some people? Some people are early morning people and they would rather work from seven to three rather than nine to five, and so we’ll work with your schedule individually and so we so there are some meetings i will have on the west coast is seven o’clock in the morning, but that’s due to that person willing to do that, we have a few minutes left still let’s talk about some of the tech tech tools back-up that was i gotta ask you about slack. But what? Black dot com how? Do we find it or what you do for us? Blackbaud comets, how you find it, you know, it’s it’s equivalent to skype or there’s google chat any type of chat software where everyone can log into and then there’s you can make groups in them. So the term for a group in slack is called a channel. And in our organization we have a channel for one of the channels is named lunch and if you’re going to be away for twenty minutes are going to lunch. We just take we just like everyone who’s in the company on that channel and say, hey, stepping away for a bit, i’ll be back in half an hour so we are all know it’s almost a cz though you would see me walk out the door, you know, and i instead of walking out the door i’m just telling that channel what’s happening there’s channels for each project also. So slack is a good one. Scott argast black is already a verb. Just like someone you’d like someone it’s a verbal. You skype someone you trust someone. Do you remember a well, instant messenger? That that was a one man was that you could use that well, i was. But okay, so slack for for chatting. A quick, quick chat about document sharing is simple google docks or something better. It’s a simple a school back and microsoft has a great year. We have this product microsoft’s one dr sharepoint microsoft suite has has a document sharing software. Ah, cloud based saving system skype is now skype for businesses and integrated with it. And so we’re using that in the office and then there’s there’s a ton of independent ones out there. And it’s, whether it’s, videoconferencing or it’s document sharing or it’s chatting there’s a ton out there. And i think it could be overwhelming. And for us it was evaluating what was best for our organisation and what our upper management was able. Teo use we talked about this before is modeling the behavior you want from your staff and so getting upper management on board was key. So one of our project management software we use a sauna, and we’ve tried three or four of them and our ceo like hassan, and so if she was going to use a sauna, we’re all going to use this on you and so i think that’s really important. It’s got to be easy to use and work for your organization. Calenda ring simple is good calendar ring, yet you have any other tools besides google calendar? We’re using outlooks calendar. Yeah, okay. Microsoft again. Yeah. All right. I think what other categories we need. Teo a video chat video is really important to scrape. A couple couldn’t do one on video with skype you khun duvette dio with google hangouts, but any time you can actually have an opportunity to see someone’s face and most of the calls we try to do as videos on dh, we find that that works really well. River again, the sense of community and if you can’t get together, that’s almost the next best thing and video has come a long way. The technology is more seamless than ever before, and so at least you’re seeing the person you might not get all of the nuance of the physical that that’s in the room. But you can see it in emotion or you can see a reaction to something which is super helpful or their cat walking of the cat we could get a lot of pets walking in front of the camera while people are on video that’s gonna be a lot of fun to talk about cats, but, you know, you have thirty virtual employees. You have fun doing it. I mean, oh, it’s awesome. Oh, it’s completely awesome is i love it. And well, you know, the best thing is that that people have really formed strong relationships with each other, they when you ask them what they like most about working here is they say each other, they say the people i’m here because i have connected relationships with other people on the team and to be able to create a culture where people feel connected to each other in a remote environment is is like, that’s the thing i’m most proud of, anything we’ve ever done, it doesn’t have to do their software product or what we’ve done to impact non-profits is the fact that we’ve had a culture of people that have had a wonderful time working and doing productive, impactful things. Jackson river always had a largest proportion of employees virtual from the beginning, when the beginnings and the culture to start about about it in the family way started as a two and a half person organization in the same way got to probably about eight to ten people in the office. And then our growth took us into different cities and communities. And that’s when we became virtual because of the growth, and so were probably half in the office in boston. And then half of our staff is outside and there’s one or two people in a city by themselves. We’re gonna leave it there. Excellent. Very much. Thank you. Alright. They are heather martin, ceo of interfaith family and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. And this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc ladies. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Way. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with your nine? Ninety or your brooks? Are your brooks or your books of those books? And brooks properly managed? Well, i could help you with the books. Eyes financial oversight in place so that your money isn’t going to fly out the door over the brook talkto wagner, partner, eat huge tomb. I’ve gotten to know him. I trust him. He’ll be honest about whether wagner is able to help you. You know where to go. Wagner, cps dot com now, tony steak too. I was at the lou costello statue in paterson, new jersey. Remember lou costello of abbott and costello and who’s on first. So what’s the connection, i hope, you know what’s on first is you’ve got to know that i mean who’s on first. Now who’s, what’s on second. I don’t know’s on third. I hope you know what i’m talking about. The connection is you gotta have some sense of history because this this comedy routine and the abbott and costello you they were from the forties, and if you want to be really successful, implant giving and you going to be actively talking to planned giving donors, you need to have some sense of history from the forties or fifties and vietnam. My video is that tony martignetti dot com now it’s time to map your data to your audience. Nces, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference day two we’re kicking off our date to coverage with courtney clarke and david mask arena all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits courtney clarke. Hello. Hello to you. Welcome. Let me give you a proper introduction. David, you could say hello. Hello, david. Mastering it from the convent and hilton foundation introduced himself. All right, david happens to be the digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. And courtney clarke is managing director of user experience forum one. Welcome. Good morning. Thanks for having us kicking off. Thanks for kicking off with us. Hey, happy to be here. You’re workshop topic is data and audience connecting to create impact. Okay, let’s, start with you. David. What do you think? Non-profits aren’t getting quite right in this subject. Like, why do we need this workshop? To be honest with you, tell you, please beyond yeah, don’t wear really blunt with the arika there’s a lot of data collection that’s happening in the nonprofit sector, but people don’t really do anything with it. There’s like a statistics where it’s like a very, very small percentage of non-profits you do something with data? And, you know, for example, there’s so many data points that in any day, that non-profit collectibe we have overload, i mean, really was data over there’s like there’s, like this just beautiful dash was like, what do we do with this? You have to stay close to michael, okay? All right, so we’re overloaded. So courtney, what we’re trying to do and have you had your workshop yet? Yes, we had it yesterday, so you’re on the downside. Yeah, this is easy for you. So what you were doing and then? And what we’re going to do now is trying make sense of data that well don’t feel overloaded. Well, it’s, it’s mostly around communicating data and really being clear about who your audiences are when you’re doing that cause we have identified five different data, sort of consumers or data people who will consume your data, but they all need different amounts of information, different formats. So for example, like a data consumer, this is like an interested person in the public. Maybe they’re a news consumer. They don’t have a lot of domain knowledge always, and they don’t have a lot of data skills, so what, you’re giving them is going to be very different than, say, a policy maker or a date. A producer. Okay, someone who’s more in depth in the details of it already knows, has has a yeah, you’ve identified let’s. Take it from there. We’ve identified five different audiences. Is that right? That’s? Different, different types of audiences. Okay, what are what are the five? We should start there. Yeah. That’s okay, what? Five? I’ll start. Okay. The next one. So data consumer two and then three e before there’s a ping pong tournament here. But we’re not. We’re not going out today. Okay, fair enough. So first is i mentioned the data consumer. This is i hate it when people say general public, because here you’re not really targeting everyone in the whole world. So let’s be a little bit more specific news consumers, people who are already interested a little bit. Okay, okay. Like i said, not a lot of dough mean knowledge. Not a lot of data skill. What you’re calling this group the data consumer. So this is the person you’re like scrolling through your news feed you’re looking at your phone. Ahn, do you see an instagram? Post or something on facebook, or even in the press in the news. And what do you see? You see an infographic that’s, simple right language that’s easy to understand. The point is very clear. That’s for the data consumer. They don’t have a lot of power, but there are a lot of those people. Okay? Hey, name another one. The next one is the data actor. So this is who everybody is targeting. This is decision makers, policymakers on dh. These folks may have some domi. Knowledge may have a lot of durney domain knowledge, but they don’t have time. So even if they do have dana skills, the ability to analyze and understand massive amounts of data didn’t have time to do that. They have analysts who are helping them do that sort of thing. But very important people. They have the staff, they have the cloud. They have our policymakers decision. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. Okay, david, just give us our remaining three. So, of course, to consume someone has to share it. So you got a date? A promoter. So these were the bloggers he got you get the journalist. The advocacy for folks. This software developers, the entrepreneur. So these people are the ones who are, like projecting that data out there so that the consumer and the actor be able to see that. And then you have the analyst, which is very, very important a lot. You missed this one too. It’s, like now i have all these data is beautifully being shared out being read, who in a way is a domain expert, this staffer that’s going to be able to analyze and help advice, what to do with the data. And then finally, the researcher you got, you know, these air, the phd folks, these are you know, i was talking about like jin ho was their learning officer, that comet and hilton foundation she’s a researcher, and we recently did a site visit nairobi, kenya, for one of our grantees, shopko shining hope for community and they have rich, rich data they’re collecting around there, committing kibera and compare, by the way, is the largest of informal settlement in africa and think about, like, a size of, you know, central park in a compressor that seven thousand people and there’s so much data that they’re collecting about the community and helping them with their health care and, you know, with an education and such and community services in the way when she’s taught dana, she was just, like, drooling all over it. But she’s, like, i want to do something that and she’s such an academic she just wants to, like, basically designed something around it. So these air, like the data modelers is with the academics of phd folks that will help let’s take the data to a new level. Alright, much so our audience is small and midsize. Yeah, non-profit twelve thousand. So we’re talking a lot of people there in small, small and midsize shop. Yeah, they need to identify which of these audiences they’re talking to some some may never be talking to to the researcher, right? Or the or the data actor. They might not be doing lobbying, so they may not be. So you have to identify which audiences you’re talking to, right? You guys hear me? Okay. And your headsets? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. I don’t hear myself too well, but as long as you hear me, ok, you have to identify who you’re talking to you and then okay, so so i guess we’re going to get through now there are different data needs different ways of conversing about data with data to each of these different audience that’s right? You don’t have that, right? Yes, we’re mapping needs and method to the five different audiences and the knowledge that they have tio and the time, right? So i mentioned the policymaker. They may have some expertise. They don’t have time right on time, don’t time like the researcher. Whereas the researchers, like, get out of my way. Just give me the spreadsheet, all query my own database, okay? And then also in the spirit of being totally honest, so they have to be honest with yourself who you’re going to deliver the data to, like. If it’s your board, it’s your board and it’s. Okay, you know, and some people are like, oh, this is only for one very specific orders and that’s. Good, you know, because they’re being very, very honest with yourself. Okay, very good. So let’s, start with the ones that are most likely for a small and midsize not to be talking. So certainly data consumer. Yeah. That’s your nose. Your nose could be your donors. I know you’re not calling your donor’s, maybe even just board members. Okay? Data actor. Maybe it could be any decision maker that could be your board as well. It could be. It could be your boss. It could be somebody who is influencing budgets influencing programming. This is the person who has the power to make a change. So it’s therein you figure out which ones were going teo so they’re they’re in data promoter. That could be a journalist. Yes. Right. So that’s potential. The analyst remind me. What’s what’s the likelihood of a small mid size shot talking to the analyst sometimes yeah, for smaller medium non-profit portable. Forget it. Yeah, yeah. Bonem altum but scale that xero scales up now we’re not going right. We’re not going treatable, but let’s, just talk about it, okay? I think what i think what’s different, though, for smaller midsize non-profits is that the people listening may be the ones doing the analysis themselves. They may not have a supper analyst. Okay. Yeah, and many came from currently hilton foundations. They get smaller foundation. And a lot of us were multiple hats. So someone might be liberta both, but yet, yet they still move every important. Okay? They’re all in. Okay? Yeah. All right. So what do we do for the data consumer? How do we have a retailer to that audience? Yeah. They’re a couple of key things. That’s. What we need. Yeah. So one is use plain language when you’re communicating to them, they may not know who you are, what you do, why it matters. Plain language is really key. Sometimes people get a little too marketing me. Sometimes they get a little too research. E you need to be able to say what you want to say in a really simple visual with some simple language like you’re talking to your friends. Yeah, we were at a dinner party. You’ve got ten seconds to explain what this is and what matter-ness schooling for. Graphic. That will do it for you or something like that, right? Or even just like a data point point. Okay, we got to take a break. Tell us, for pete’s sake, think of the companies you can refer and start asking them that’s the first step. Well, actually, the first step is watching the video. Then you start referring the companies and talking. To them, you’ve heard the testimonials from the charity’s. You’ve heard the testimony from the companies. It’s. Time to get that long stream of passive revenue for yourself. Start with the video. That is the first step video. Is that tony dot, m a slash tony tello’s. Now back to courtney clarke and david mask arena from eighteen. Ntc what’s. The summary. Yeah, and a couple of that with something you mentioned visually could be motion. Could be a visual visualization of data. It could be a story. It could be a video that couples with the data because just it’s. Just a lot more impact for when you, when you when you pair it, but okay, let’s, start to make sense. Your data consumer is gonna be a lot more interesting story then your analyst or your research eggs? Absolutely. And during our session yesterday, there are people in the audience who talked. We talked a lot about how we paired data with stories because the narrative makes it so much more riel, it elevates the people that are actually being affected by this data. So there were some great stories about that. Okay, okay. Back-up let’s, go to the well, anything else about the consumer? I mean, this is this is this is probably our largest constituency. Yeah, so i think the other thing is to be clear about what action you want them to take because your data should support that action don’t just and and actually that came up from an audience member yesterday who said people weren’t being moved by the data and so that’s why they started pairing it with stories and once somebody gets hooked and they feel those heartstrings being cold or they feel that passion rise that’s when you gotta capitalize and be really clear what the action is, whether it’s donating, volunteering on asking for more information yeah, signing up for the male daughter, give us your new gives your email yeah, and think about the safety step back a little bit this like you have to identify goal, like whether you’re trying to accomplish with this data set and it would help you help you with to decide like what to share in how to share that welfare that’s always important place to start gold. What was the purpose of this, exactly what we’re trying to move people and then we try to move people to do and then be clear about exactly called. Okay? That’s, right? And the goal is the hardest part. Frankly, knowing the goal is the hardest part. It’s on so simple, but it’s like that ask why five times you got to get to the real root of why you’re doing this. All right? We’re talking about our actor actor. Okay, refresh my recollection, who’s, this decision makers, policymakers, people who are going to make the change that you want, sir. Yeah. Okay. Okay. How do we talk to these people that data. So the format is briefings sometimes it’s in the form of a press release. They need, like, think about a policy maker who has a staff and maybe they have to vote on a bill or make a decision. The staff member is the one who’s calling non-profits calling agencies and saying what’s happening in my district around this topic. So being able to slice your data by topic and location is really valuable to these folks and getting this summary out and again the action. What? Why does this matter and their actions going to be different than the consumer? Usually you’re looking for a decision, a vote, something exactly what you want to say more about the actual, i think something that’s adjustable something that if you could package it for them, like staying here, the key takeaways from this a swell, you know, think of this, like, you know, you know, working the communications team. And, you know, we provide press kits for people. And if you could provided that, you know, so so they could easily digest and help, um, guide them through the decision making process, i think will be the key. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And i guess also keeping in mind you you may not be talking to the principal. Yeah, right, right. It could be a staff staff, something. Usually it is so it’s. Gotta be it’s. Gotta be so your your urine for always going through someone to the decision maker way don’t love that. Right? Twice removed, twice removed from your there once removed from your data. Yeah, it happens. I mean, that’s what? Any communication, though. Anytime you’re putting something out, somebody could take it. Andi at their own commentary around it. That’s what? The data promoter that’s a that’s a benefit in a risk, right? Because they could date a promoter could be multiplying. Your audience is your audience, but they could be putting their own message. They could be manipulating the data in a way that may not be true to it. But, you know, were you everybody has had, you know, that journalist didn’t get the quote quite right? Yeah, you are taking over simplification exactly. If the press often has to do to make something interesting to readers, you know, put in a headline. Yeah, yeah, and the promoter should also think about, like, segmenting looking if they could do, like, a more targeted in a way, like, if they know specifically that they’re going to try to communicate. Teo, i think they’ll be the key as well. And you get to know your trusted data promoters, right? You know, the journalists or the bloggers are the advocates who you trust, who you align with the messaging around. So identifying those folks or maybe you don’t know them and you do a little research and you find out who you are, where, wes, you need to know within your sector who the influencers are. Absolutely yeah, i get a little bit of research. Goes a long way. Yeah. Back-up how do you feel about the standard press release? Since we’re talking about the audience of promoters, we’ll be sending it to either of you have, ah, opinion on press releases. Are they outdated there? Some school of thought that press release is dead. But it’s it’s still being used is using it. You’re still using journalists say they ignore them. Yeah, andi, and honestly goes back to relationship building, you know, like in communications, that our primary key is build relationships with with journalists. So when our press release passes through their deaths, they’d be able to, like sick. Oh, let me take a look at this and then dig deeper into the story for us. Just a little more let’s. Talk about building a relationship with a journalist before you want them. Tio, take some action for you to write about you in to quote you on that day’s breaking news. Yeah. How do we build that relationship when we don’t have a need? But, you know, we want to be in front of the person. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like i just it’s a good old fashioned relation building, you know, you have called them, reach out them email and called, you know, like you have no agenda, but i mean, this marketplace exactly you often cover way. Have coffee, exactly. What a concept. I mean, like, i’m also part of communications network conference, just another communications based non-profit unconference and a lot of journalists attend that and it’s a great opportunity, this plate, this form and ten is a another great form to meet people like i would add to that you need to be you need to understand that audience and you need to be curious about they have their own set of requirements that they’re trying to meet. They’ve got an editorial calendar there. Boss has told them what topics to focus on. They’re looking for. They need they need to youto help them connect the dots. So maybe don’t start with the ask, understand what they’ve been working on for the last month. What stories? What topics? And then being able to which, which, by the way, does not mean ask them what have you been writing me out? It means doing your research before you do the outreach, so that you know, so that, you know, you’ve shown that, you know, you show that you’ve taken the time to know what their beat is exactly not just asking you what do you write about lately? Well, it’s in the paper buy-in there dubai it’s on it’s, on the site, in the research, and then and then what are you working on next or what’s? The story you’ve been dying to write that you haven’t had the chance to there’s always a good answer for that and there’s a great conversation starter, especially like imagine putting yourself in their shoes, you know, like someone just roundly wants to have coffee with you, but you have no idea who they are didn’t even do any sort of research like and, you know, you have very, very busy schedule, and you have multiple crowdster headlines like we just need to remember they’re people tio don’t waste their time any more than you would waste. Teo spend the time with a potential donor. Exactly ask them what you’re worth. You’re not gonna ask them things that you want to know already write, write, write what is it about our work that he loves? Well. I’ve been giving to you for fifteen years, i think it’s, probably in my e-giving history, you know, don’t waste people’s time exactly, but but it is important to build relationships with exactly these influences. Okay, i would add to that there channels are largely on social media. If you talk to any journalists, they spend all their time on twitter. So if your twitter gene is not great it’s time it’s time. Learn what hashtags there using. Follow those channels, see who they’re following. See what they’re talking about. A great way to do research on also how to start to engage early on, even if it’s just observing. Okay. Okay. Very good. Okay, so i want you. I want to spend more time on that. I want to check my mike. Want to make sure that everything is good here. Okay, a little insecure about the way i sound. I don’t know. I sound you don’t sound good to me, it’s. Not okay to you, though, right? It’s? A little soft. Like i can hear myself. Really? I could hear myself, teo. You don’t hear me. According to richard it’s. Not as clear. Yeah, in-kind okay. And give. Myself a lot more volume. All right, now, my too loud. Ok, it’s. Good. Allright. Thank you. Time for our last break. Hoexter give quote, i compared a bunch of companies in my search for it hoexter donate company and text to give is the best hands down. They have b been beyond helpful. I can’t imagine anyone doing this better exclamation mark end quote that’s lauren bouchard from global commission partners in clermont, florida. Satisfied? She is with text to give you will be, too for info text npr to four, four, four, nine nine, nine. We’ve got several more minutes, and here they are for map your data to your audiences. Let’s, continue the analysts. Right. Data analyst. Refresh our recollection. David who is this? So this is the data expert this’s. The staffer that’s or consultant? That would help be a read data. Okay, and analyze it for you, like they be in a foundation. Now. I like the way i sound better. Okay? Like they’d be a foundation program, officer. It could be. Is that an example or no, i’m not necessarily. I mean, it could be a learning officer for the foundation meeting the one. Who’s like analyzing all the learning and data sets. Ok, he could be a data manager, you know, within an organization. Where would you? Where would you put a program, officer out of foundation? Someone who’s evaluating your grant proposal. Where? Where would they fit in these audience? Most like, i mean, it’s a little bit of both between the consumer and the actor, to be honest with you, because they’re both a decision maker. So they’re going to read the data and they’re also going to get this just like, okay, this is how my program is going and here’s how i’m going to act upon it. And here’s how i’m gonna adjust my strategy with it. Okay? Yeah. All right. So, let’s, go back to the analyst. How do we, uh, david? You keep going. What do we do with this? How do we talk to the analyst with our data? Go. No. Gosh, just give it all to them. Honestly, rod, they love him. They loved it. They love spreadsheets there. Said if they see a string of numbers, imagine like matrix type of thing. They’re like oh, my gosh, this is habit. Okay, okay. Yeah. It’s that simple? Well, they have, i would add that they usually have the domain a knowledge. Do you think of a policy maker? They haven’t education expert on staff or they may have an expert in international relations it’s that person who knows the domain quite well and feels comfortable digging through the data and furthermore to add to that, too is like if he providing which your goals and what your strategy is for and what they’re trying to provide the otherwise they’d be able to help you got guide you through the breeding process say more about that? Yeah, what shit a little bit, so think of him like, you know, like, if i’m like, if i am se the heather communications in the foundation and i’m like, i’m gonna talk to a data analyst we’re trying to accomplish x can you help me read through this day that what types of data sets can leave first collect and what’s up days says comey can provide so they’ll be able to accomplish that goal, then they were able to narrow down because otherwise they could they could. You stand in any sort of ways, but if you provide some sort of direction or gold. They’re able to, like filter things a little bit better for you. Okay, yeah, very good. Really good. And our last left audiences the researcher buy-in courtney yeah, the researchers are get out of my way and give me this red sheet they the like they may scan through your infographic, your visualization, your query tool. But really, they’re going to build their own query tool. They’re goingto grab that they’re the ones who are in sequel making pivot table like they’re doing all of it. Okay, we have jargon jail on twenty sequel i think people will know, but i’m going to pivot table. Alright, excel itself. Okay, sorry, i’m taking a data analytics class so i’m learning this stuff, so i’m excited to be able to talk about it just dropping, dropping top, but, yeah, i imagine you’ve got an excel table that is so large that you can’t open it x l can’t open it. That is what these researchers are are working in and they’re very comfortable working in and they’re the ones who may even be collecting data as well as analyze sing it for themselves, so think of it like a like a layer deeper than unless they got analysts who may rely also some visualizations. And of course, like a deep amount of pressure. But these guys are like they’re just like neck or forehead, deep of like numbers and data, and they want to do everything themselves. Yeah, yeah. So one one important thing here we have worked on a number of data projects and for non-profits or foundations any group who wants to attract many of these audiences, the keeping with researchers is you have, like, the get data page or sometimes we’ll put it in the footer and it’s, like, just download the excel spreadsheet because i keep saying it, but you got to get out of their way. Just give them what they want, okay? Okay. We have, like, another minute and a half or so do you have tools? And, uh, in your description, you mentioned choosing the right data tools. Any tools we can introduce briefly that you like, i mean, to be honest and this is like, tio, you get off being out of keeping it will be really hash tag riel here, please place if you’re old website have google and alex installed. I mean, you’d be surprised how many webs are out there and smashing non-profits believe that twenty nine, twenty nine percent of them are using do or not. Okay, okay did not have google and licks and police bare minimum do that and they said, like have i think the fun? Nothing is like have goals, you know, before it was like before you venture into the day the world? Yeah, there is there’s a great study that every action did called the state of non-profit data. And you can it’s from twenty sixteen. But it’s a great read a page i recommended. Okay, we’re gonna leave it with we’ll leave it there without recommendation. All right, all right. They’re courtney clarke, managing director of user experience at forum one. And david mask arena digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. Courtney and david. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure. This interview along with all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you for being with non-profit radios coverage of eighteen ntc next week the buy-in bitches getting buy-in from your leadership. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing toe online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Bradunas cps dot com by tello’s, credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 18, 2018: Blockchain and Bitcoin 101 & Be Data Driven

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Sheila Warren: Blockchain and Bitcoin 101

You’ve certainly heard of them. You’re probably confused by them. Let’s straighten it all out. What are these technologies and what do they mean for your nonprofit? Sheila Warren is a knowledgable instructor and makes it easy to understand. She’s with World Economic Forum. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

 


Eli Hertz:
 Be Data Driven
What are the reasons to create a data-driven culture in your organization and what challenges will you face? Which tools can help you? Eli Hertz is from United Service Organizations (USO). (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer due to wrap a thie if you said primarily that you missed today’s show blockchain and bitcoin one oh one you’ve certainly heard of them. You’re probably confused by them let’s, straighten it all out. What are these technologies? And what do they mean for your non-profit sheila warren is a knowledgeable instructor and makes it easy to understand she’s with world economic forum that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and be data driven. What are the reasons to create a data driven culture in your organization? And what challenges will you face? Which tools can help you? Eli hurts is from united service organizations uso that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference. I’m tony steak too it’s. Time to make time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant to radio bye weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cpas, dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s here is sheila warren and block, jane and bitcoin welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re coming to you from new orleans, the convention center there. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits my guest is sheila warren. Welcome, sheila. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure. Sheila is head of blockchain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum on dh her workshop topic is started. I’m talking about you like you’re not here. You’re workshop topic is blockchain for non-profits fact versus fiction. Yes. Okay, um i’m gonna tell you this one has been intimidating me a little bit because i and i even did research on this research. My voice is cracking over, not nervous, but it isn’t intimidating because i’ve tried to crack the bitcoin, not blockchain, but the bitcoin topic two years ago at ntc it was not a dedicated topic. It was became a a digression that i created on i regretted it while i was mired in it and i couldn’t get away out gracefully and and we never really talked about you in what? What the heck bitcoin is okay, so since then i’ve done some technology. I’ve done some reading if i describe bitcoin as there’s, no there’s a greater fool. Does that make sense that you mean it doesn’t really have a value other than the hope that someone will buy it after me and therefore increased my value? I mean, is that i think you’re jumping right into the controversy right into the thick of it. I read the wrong article, i think that’s great, i think let’s back out of that. Okay, okay. Go in. Any direction you like? I did some research, but i don’t want to get mired in it. Okay? Bitcoin. Blockchain. All right, why don’t we start since bitcoin was popular before blockchain? Although i know that they are related in one relies on the other. I have that much down. So i think you’re ahead of many knowing that there’s a distinction between the two? Yes. Ok, i do. All right. I’ll just ask you simply, which i tried two years ago. What is bitcoin and how does it relate? Toe non-profit? Yeah, sure. Okay. So i’ll start by saying you know the number one thing i want people to take away anytime i do any kind of speaking is bitcoin and blockchain are not the same thing now they’re equated because bitcoin is built on something that’s called the bitcoin blockchain, so the terminology is quite confusing but the best analogy i can think of is that bitcoin is to block chain as email is to the inter so blockchain is a foundational technology when it is finally really baked into our systems, people will stop talking about it the way we don’t really talk about the internet anymore except we’re being a bit ironic. We talked about applications, right and bitcoin is an application on blockchain. It is the most famous application on blockchain. It was the first application on blockchain. Bitcoin blockchain was built for bitcoin. So be like if the internet was built for email, you could do other things. But it would be this equations were trying to do is teo that of course let’s tease it apart. These are a lot of other things you could do with a block to that have nothing to do with bitcoin. And even if bitcoin were to completely fail and go away. There would still be exactly the way it will be an internet without email. Okay, let’s, just before we get to the blockchain value on its transparency, etcetera, let’s just flush out the big going a little more so i think non-profit think of it because it’s impossible fund-raising right? I mean, it’s, possible revenue source. Yeah, donors could give gives to you and there have been enormously large gift in the press. Yeah, of bitcoin two non-profits so, yeah, i agree. Okay, so let’s dive into a little green deeper into bitcoin. Yeah, so i was wrong. So i was that was something controversial. I said that it doesn’t have intrinsic value. Well, i mean, i think it has doesn’t have intrinsic value. I mean, bitcoin itself that’s a big debate. I mean, people, some people argue absolutely has intrinsic value because it’s filling a gap in a way that nothing else can really fill the gaps. Some people argue it has absolutely no intrinsic value. It’s all just like, basically hyped value in market value. Like whatever the pr around and i think that’s, right? But that that’s arguably no different than many. Early stage, you know, cos right, like, when you think about equity in an early stage company doesn’t have value of tv, you know, so it’s not that different. So i think to me what i find interesting or kind of mildly amusing at times is like the idea. This is like this brand new distinction, right? We kind of have this model already. It’s called early stage equity grantwriting mean, like those might be paper and worth nothing. They might be worth a ton of money you don’t really know. And to be honest, like your kind of gambling when you buy a digital currency, you know, you should have written the article that i read well, of course you know, you should get them. I not that i should have found your articles. I didn’t know you when i was doing this. Well, i wasn’t in this case two years ago. I just entered the space two years ago, but my research is more recent durney written articles way have something coming out actually, next week on april nineteenth, we’re doing a launch of what we’re calling a blocked a decision making, took it about blockchain and really trying to make it very accessible to the layperson, not in terms of what is it? But is it valuable to you? Is that we’re gonna find that in the world economic forum. Sightly ok, ok, good. Look for that if you want to know more about this, okay. Back-up so let the bitcoin all right? Backing out of the controversy part of it people could give you get absolutely, yeah, just the way they used to get. Yes, you make some very good analogies up early stage equity interests. That would be a challenge for non-profits to deal with. Exactly. Okay, and now we’ve overcome that at some point, real property was hard to deal with, like getting real estate starts thinking the new newest iteration of that. But it’s really no different. Don’t be scared. Don’t be scared. You want to know how to receive it? Receiving bitcoin is actually not that hard. You got a coin bait. I mean, this is one example, but what the easiest example probably is you go to coin base, you get a receipt on lee wallet base. Coin base is a company that has what’s called bitcoin wallets. You get a rece ive on ly bitcoin wallet that lives in the ability to receive bitcoin, converted into fiat currency and move on with your day. You can’t buy bitcoin with that wallet, but it’s a pretty easy mechanism. We’re getting you and their other competitors as well. There’s a kind of ah a cottage industry, if you will, in this kind of thing, okay, you receive only while it will be sufficient. And then how will you convert that to its done that’s? All worker magically on the back end, right? You kind of pick your currency usually it’s usd. And then you just they do the conversion for you at the current rate and then you move it out. Now you’re still accepting whatever the current rate is, you might decide you want to hold it longer and want to play the market. It exactly. But it’s like it’s no different for foreign currency. But the cashing out of it is just another it’s. Just a different call. The defense called a wallet, which isn’t you know, i think a very accurate term actually ways we have one of those wallets that enables you to receive this particular kind of currency and then you just decide when you want to cash it out. You move on with your job. These doesn’t want to do he’s well known icons, wallets, you know, it helps. It helps those of us who were trying to get our way in. Well, well, i put my money in my wallet, right? So i’ll just get my bitcoin in my virtual wall. Exactly. Okay, what’s, the what’s, the one you you name, that we could go to base one base dot com and there are others are ok, but you can start there. And it’s. Very simple. Okay. That’s, how to receive bitcoin gift for your non-profit thank you, strickler. You’ve been doing this a while. You’ve been talking to a lot of deal fights. Clearly it’s my my fair parts of my job. Okay, excellent it’s. Time for a break. Pursuing the art and science of acquisition is one of their content papers acquiring new donors. Is it part of your summer planning, perhaps, or keeping your prospect pipeline full is on your mind so you keep revenue robust? How is revenue? If you’re thinking about acquisition? Get the paper. The art and science of acquisition it’s on the listener landing page. Tony dot m a slash pursuant radio now back to block chain and bitcoin one oh, one now let’s, go to blockchain technology. Okay, now that we understand that bitcoin is but one one channel it’s built on built on a blockchain technology. Okay, how would you describe blockchain technology? Yeah. So i like to use the example. Elect yousa thank you. Tell me, but it seems to worry working for so if you and i were teo, i would buy something from you. Whatever it was, then we might decide. Okay? There are two options when we could just we don’t trust each other. Let’s say we contains other cash, marie and i just can’t do it. Whatever dollar bill ten dollar bill you give me the whatever it is and i walk away and we both walk away very happy our transaction is completed. Another way that people do. This is we get our mobile devices and we decided we’re using paypal or venmo are square cash or whatever it is. And we engaged in a transaction and we both again walk away. Satisfied? That transaction is complete. There are five. Parties in the mobile example there’s you, me, your bank, my bank and intermediary, whether that’s, paypal or whatever it is and the reason that you and i are confident enough to walk away from the transaction feeling it’s completed is because we trust those three intervening parties. We trust that they’re goingto all suspect effectively and sufficiently debit my account and credit your account the right amount of money, and we don’t have to really pay attention to that, right? But you can imagine, and this is hypothetical in our case and sort of the western united states largely, but not everywhere. You can imagine a world in which i don’t have access to a bank account or you don’t or both of us don’t. There is no intermediary that’s going to be trusted any matter is easily hacked whatever is for whatever reason we have no trust in this system and we want to exchange something that’s analogous to cash bitcoin additional currency. Is that anil? It is basically the internet analog of my handing you cash there is no meaningful intermediate is no centralized intermediary that’s mediating that transaction for us we’re able to peer-to-peer exchange that value so that is the beauty, if you will, of digital currency, right? And what it provides the marketplace that doesn’t currently otherwise exist except for in paper. Ok, how does blockchain is what enables that happen? So what’s happening this magical middle? I’m not actually hand i’m not like brain sending you something, right? There’s something happening in here what’s happening in here is blockchain is being deployed essentially i mean it’s not technically accurate, but let’s for our sake. What is actually happening? Okay? Rather than me sending something to a central authority and kind of like a chain of central authorities were sending it to a distributed network. So we’re saying what our ways of creating trust? Well, one way creating trust is to trust an intermediary if you don’t have one other way, cretin trust is to make take it totally distributed. So imagine if between us there was a network of a thousand computers not connected to each other independent pseudonymous so no one knows how anyone else is right at the exact same time they’re creating simultaneous this is again not totally accurate, but likely to be a simultaneous record of our exchange, they’re indicating i opened up my digital wallet i released, you know, one bitcoin, which is money. And you gave you something very valuable in exchange and you receive it. Okay? And in orderto hack that transaction, you would have to convince thousand computers to change their record. That’s why they’re i was going to ask you, why are there a thousand computers? That’s? Why security? Security? So it means you can see it’s far more secure than a central database that could be easily hacked. Right? Like one source of truth can be hacked very easily. A thousand simon, identical sources of truth are very hard to have. So each of these computers houses the same information. We call it a ledger about our transaction. And this is why we call it distributed ledger technology. And we can do this because my voice keeps cracking like i’m fourteen because because the cost of storage is so dim minimus on the margin that we don’t worry about all this redundancy. I mean, we got a thousand computers with the same in-kind large network with the same data, the same ledger, but but that’s because storage is so cheap. It’s not so. Much storage is so cheap because it’s a method of achieving trust. Right? So if you if you either either you you trust something? Are you trust nothing. And if you trust nothing, then a thousand synonomous computers is about is going to get right. Exactly right. Nobody has an incentive to screw up our transaction record incorrectly. And if they do, if one computer in that thousand computers records a different version it’s competition we spotted almost immediately and there’s a check that happens. What happened? What’s going on there, you know, so it’s very, very hard to hack. It makes it quite secure. How about how about hacking it so that the one becomes the accurate transaction and the other nine hundred ninety nine convert to that that’s computational e-giving possible? Yeah, demographically impossible to do that. Okay, okay. Yeah. So that’s the way it works now latto brand not going to get a ring about it has given it was going to kill it. Ok, i don’t want to know what’s interesting about this, right? So this is the premise of the bitcoin blockchain and of what are called public blockchain but interestingly enough, which are getting are the human impulse, i think, is to say what i want to control something, if i want, if i want, if i don’t trust something, i want to control it, right? So you’re getting a lot of explosion of these permission block chains, which means that you control you know who all the computers are. Basically, are you on, lee? Allow computers that you have kind of vetted into the system. When you do that, it becomes more securely it’s gotta be it’s, kind of like counter involvement words, they don’t know. We don’t know which each other dahna that’s very good that’s, right? Okay, so what’s the oh, what i’ll ask it instead of trying to figure it out, what’s the value of this two non-profits yeah, i think there’s a lot of value to this. So one, i think, in the sort of remittance space in terms of programmatic work, there are a lot of places where, you know, charitable work is done it using remittances using kind of the last mile payments, like problems that have existed for a long time, that we’ve been unable to really have a great solution for there’s a huge problem osili is realized recently through a world bank project there’s a huge problem with charities, certainly in certain kinds of region syria, the kinds of places being unbanked like having no access to bank accounts. And in many of these regions, people are literally taking paper cash into these environments and using it to provide services right, hugely problematic, very unsafe, very risking dangerous activity. If you have a digital wallet it’s that much more secure, right? Like it’s, actually that much harder. Teo, steal that hack it. You can prove ownership using encryption, there’s a lot of other things about it that are better. In these situations and that’s sort of the extreme example is the example we’re seeing a lot of different application level there’s, other completely non currency related applications of blockchain, so one that i think is really critical is digital identity. So this is this comes up a lot in the refugee asylum situations you could imagine a family has to flee in the middle of the night. They can’t bring any of their papers with them there’s no proof of who they are, their citizenship, their credentials, whether medical license, whatever it is that medical records, nothing like that. If all of that we’re on a distributed ledger, it would be security’s, not a paper based system. So so when you think about the application layer where you’re moving away from paper and you’re storing something in a secure manner, but not in some sort of like a database of government, where the government could be corrupt and come in and kind of change things up and disavow it, but in a way that really is truly secure that you own the only entrance key too, like that is very powerful to think about, you know there are we. Know that in homeless encampment, united states leaving aside like this war tor in-kind of regions, even in united states, there’s no accurate record of the homeless population because people who are born homeless often don’t have records, right? And then if you die homeless, there’s no account about this son accurately, in a sense, is acknowledges it’s completely off with that population. Imagine if there were a digital ledger that you could create around that now policy on how you do that is very challenging because it’s not an easy problem to solve, but at least there isn’t a different option. Now for three zsystems exactly exactly for preserving it current once you once you are creating and has overcome the challenge of gathering data, there’s a place to preserve it and the persons data is not vulnerable. Exactly loss or hacking. Okay, okay. Um now one of the articles i read talked about the transparency on dh. The example was a donor giving to a program and tracking progress of that program and then tying her funding two milestones that disease through the blockchain technology through some user interface. I guess the fucking can you help people understand? Better than i just did. What i’m talking about is absolutely so i think that we call the supply chain integration and i get a flow is an example of a supply chain supply chain of cash, but their supply chains of all kinds of things, i think it’s easier to understand that if we think about a supply chain and we’ll take mining as an example, because this i think people really understand this, ok, so and one hundred percent with your analogies. Thank you. I’ll make sure we bring it back to the non-profit but you go ahead. Yeah, so when you think about mining and you think about sustainable practices, right, so people don’t want blood diamonds. For example, there is a international process established called kimberley process that evaluates whether or not i don’t recall the kimberley process so it evaluates whether or not a diamond is mind using fair labor, you know, no child labor and all the things that you actually would care about is a consumer of this diamond and using blockchain technology, those diamonds are actually etched. Can you confirm follow using a combination r f i d e a lot of things and block chain a diamond throughout the entire supply chain from the moment its mind and you can you can certify that the mine itself was done with correct worker conditions, and etcetera are fundamental. Whatever it is, you contract that all the way to the refinery, to the manufacturer, to the retailer to thee. Kayman right, so there is certainty that that specific mineral or metal was taken all the way through, and this applies to other kinds of minerals and metals as well. You could imagine something similar that would apply, teo, you know, cotton or coffee or whatever it is, right? Like you could actually certify that a particular bag of coffee beans was crude was was harvested on a plantation that would that met their labor practices and was organic. And, you know, whatever the things are you care about fair trade certified, you could track that of a supply chain, and you could therefore ensure and give meaning to some of these labels that we don’t actually have any proxy for ascertaining are actually true. Great. So this provides more accountability and transparency because you can track the same good throughout an entire system. Now the same thing is true of aid flows. So a dollar originates somewhere. It’s basically just a supply chain all the way through. So any diversion of that money can actually be tracked. It’s a really interesting question. If you do this in digital currency every time digital currencies exchange there is a record created by definition. It’s not like cass. We’re just kind of khun vanished. There’s no ability for to vanish. It’s. Impossible. Great. So if i give it to you and you give it tio some other intermediary and they suddenly diverted to some corrupt whatever it is that that currency can be tracked so you can create accountability system, you can show that it went to pay your staffer that it went teo, you know, a contract to build the well or whatever it is. You can actually show that. And you can report all that ledger back too. The donor exactly. How does the organization interact with block james with the right to say the blockchain? No, there was no. It depends on a blockchain blockchain. And normally just sabelo depends on how dramatically interesting. You okay, what’s the user interface. That thing with donor and really question sametz finally twenty minutes and i got one good question is, is it okay for the donor and the non-profit? How we interact with? Yeah, this’s one of the challenges right now and it’s one of the reasons there isn’t at this gigantic explosion in use cases, even though they’re theoretical use cases everyone agrees on. People are now in the wake up in the state got started on the stage where this is being developed. When you think about the early internet and everybody was kind of risky, prompted was typing things and whatever that was not accessible. Teo fingering people call this business was not it was not accessible to a lot of people, right? But once you had a graphical user interface that came into play, people could pipe in plain english. And you kind of had with me what you had. What you see is what you get. You have these interfaces that were just more intuitive. You know what? You were wearing a realist. I have george in jail, but i wouldn’t wait. I mean that’s that’s. Well, that’s, not jargon. Ok. Fantastic, i presume. Thanks. I don’t agree with you. I’m fearful that you have low expectations of my understanding. Now go. Okay, okay. All right, well, listen, non-profit lady radio listeners or at least at my level, most of all, most people going with us so that those were all huge innovations enabled the explosion and things like email in google and search engines than whatever, until you had that was very hard to imagine being there, steve jobs is times a thousand, right? Exactly, right? So give it a little time and we’re going to get there and before you know it, we’re not going to talk about blocked it anymore. It’s going to be kind of this thing of the past, right? No, one’s talking about consensus mechanisms are proof of work or bubble it not going to care about any of that we’re going to be like, oh, did you check out your whatever the company is it’s the new facebook, but now built on block chain that we all now can’t live without you. So we’re getting there. We’re getting there. Awesome. All right. You really think you have very good analogy is a very good way of explaining this. Thank you. And thank you. We still have a couple minutes left together. So what more do you want to say? Is there another level we can go to? Ise there a story you want to tell about a non-profit using this technology? What? You know, i got love, yeah, i will say a couple of things, i think that, you know, i would really encourage listeners and anyone, you know, to really think beyond the digital currency example, and so we gave some examples of identity and supply chain and others, you know, there’s, interesting work happening around impact and how charity’s khun demonstrate impact using blockchain and kind of tag metrics. Tio tio not necessary to cash, but to sort of the street planning that goes all kinds of different implications for this technology and really the kind of, like joke in the blockchain nerd of which i am one system is to say, like, when you really start thinking about what this can do, you have these, like, three a m wake ups where you think like, oh, my god, like, you could do that, i could do that, i could do that, and you have to kind of dialling back down and we’re not there yet, you know? So one example, i’m really what got me my three a m moment that got me really hyped about this technology was in criminal justice, something i’m very passionate about and thinking about chain of custody of evidence. So thinking about thie way that evidence gets lost things like rape kits or dna evidence or whatever it might be a chain of custody people exam, and i’m thinking more of in other countries were tortured or vanished, get disappeared, kidnapping or not, it is our most of our institutions are exactly so we’re doing a big project anticorruption work in south america, where we’re thinking about government accountability and transparency and how you can actually work around and mitigate corruption, which is i’m the president in many parts of the world, using this technology because of the ability to track and trace, which is really key. So i think that is where the big innovation is gonna happen. It’s already happening and will continue to happen in this space and the implications, i think, for non-profits are quite quite profound the ability to track and trace something or someone is very, very so. Any objects like you had said the diamond is physically etched. Yeah, i mean, it’s gotta be obviously a pretty small, actually. Dankmyer dahna it is. Okay, so but any physical things, physical evidence in a criminal in a criminal case. Oh, it’s, great kids. A bloody glove, as a random example. Okay, very good. Okay. Uh, out. Forever. Forever. Forever. We will never have treyz we won’t have lost evidence. You’ll know if if it is disappeared, we’ll know exactly at what stage is exactly at what stage disappear. There won’t be a guests there’s no ability to hide, right? And you can mark that that security with like, with a geo look, even geo tag it, you know exactly, literally. Exactly where that thing was that the last recorded exchange of it. Okay. So which is really profound when you think about that, we have about a minute left. What do you love about this work? Not not so much. Not so much of the technology. But what do you love about explaining it to people? I think you know, i think it really is. Ah, i don’t think it’s surprising. How intimidating it it it’s a very intimidating technology, in part because there’s so much media attention about it, the volatility, the currency and then bitcoin millionaires and all this kind of billionaires and all this stuff and and you know it, it’s a community that’s really fascinating. Someone just used bitcoin. I asked you to talk about someone just used going to fund every single every single request that was donorsearch shoes dot org’s every single one got funded overnight, a lot of money, and charles rich asked for it. He couldn’t believe that he got it. Well, it’s also crazy because this is like there’s so much money in this that there are people who are they want to press, like the people that really, really have the money security to hired security. Us. What has this like thug element to it in this history of, like illicit actors in nefarious activity, you know kind of things people mean arms were sold using bitcoin, that the fact people were traffic using bitcoin? That is a fact, all right. And the idea that we’ve moved away from that not saying that is it still happening? Because let’s be candid, it is still happening, right? But that’s not the case for which it was really designed, and most people in this space are not interested in that kind of activity when you think about the shift away in the movement opportunity it’s really exciting to get ordinary people call them, like, lay people aware of this at least at a base level, and to not be afraid of it that i find very rewarding, okay? And like, we no longer fear the internet and automobiles exactly where you wanna go both okay? All right. We got every motive. Transportation? All right, sheila warren. Thank you very much. Thank you for the pleasure. You helped enormously. I’m so glad. She’s, the head of blockchain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum once the article it’s coming up that we should look for, it’ll be april nineteenth and it’s called the decision making till can’t it’ll be on our website? Awesome on our twitter my interview with sheila is sponsored my pleasure by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit medio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we need to take a break, wittner. Cps. You need your nine. Ninety done. Right. You need an audit. Start at wagner. Cps dot com. Look at their services for non-profits. Read a few testimonials. Then pick up the phone and talk to partner. Eat huge tomb. I know him. He’s. Been on the show. He’s. A good guy. You explain what you need. He’ll tell you if they can help you. No pressure, he’s. Not that way at all. Talk to him. Wagner. Cpas dot com is the place to start now. Time for tony’s. Take two. Summer is close, it’s. Time to make time for your time away, including offgrid time. I hope you can do this. You need it. We all need offgrid time. No phone, no email. You know offgrid my encouragement video. Is that tony martignetti dot com good link. Dot com. Listen, i’m a safe too. Looked our founder of good link at goodland. Dot com non-profits connect with businesses that advanced their missions. When i want the best connections i listen to non-profit radio like you are safe. Good link it’s a new marketplace where non-profits meat vendors providing products or services? No cost to you as non-profit it’s, your bridge, your connection to the products and services that you need i’m helping them get started see what you think. Check out good link dot com it’s l i n c now time for a lie hurts and be data driven. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc it’s a non-profit technology conference hosted by the non-profit technology network. We’re coming to you from new orleans convention center there. This interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits. And my guest is you. I hurt he’s, the vice president of information technology at united service organizations. Us. So you lie hurts. Welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you. Thanks for having me welcome. My your your subject is becoming a data driven organization. Why should we? Why should read to make better decisions to do our mission better, more efficiently. B a and teo, to be able to have more impact, you’re confident that this changing culture going to bring about all these good outcome? Yes, yes. If you are you okay? It will there be challenges to get there? Yes, there will be. Challenges to get there isn’t a transition necessary, absolutely, but i’m confident that if and when we navigate those those challenges, the getting there enables better decisions, so we’re able to do our mission more effectively and that’s really what it’s all about, okay, and this does not just apply in the information technology department knows is you know what? This is organization wide. Oh, absolutely matter of fact, i’m glad you asked that tony, because if it only applied to information technology department, we would never get there that’s not how it’s accomplished the my department is about enabling the tools and technology that air the underpinnings, but really getting there and ineffectiveness is on ly when the business used the lines of business, that of performing the mission are asking the questions that are doing the analysis, they have the context they know the right questions to ask on the story that needs to be told it is absolutely not by-laws malefactor tools just one other piece, that the tools are evolving to enable that the so that it doesn’t take a technical person like it did in the past. The tools are being designed so that anyone khun, step up, use um and ask the right questions to get the answers they need. Okay, are we able to talk about some of those fools later on? Sure. Ifyou’d like tio conversing with them. Okay, you know them. Okay, good. Well, i’m guessing if this is going to be a cultural change, the change is gonna come from the top. So ideally so, the way we’re approaching a tony is both a top down and bottoms up approach both simultaneously kind of come out it from two angles, and we think both are necessary. Neither one by itself would would get us all the way there. We are fortunate have a ceo is very technically driven that understands the has the vision of what it can and should do for the organization to be able to make data driven decisions. However, just mandating it isn’t isn’t going to get us all the way there because the ones that are going to make it work are the ones that are going to be working. The tools are maur bottoms up because they’re they’re day today they have the context, they they have the context for the fund-raising with a marketing or the program delivery there of our constituents, and they have a better sense of the business processes and what all the data means so they can ask those questions if they don’t buy-in and have the right inquisitive mind set dahna we won’t get the answers that we want, they want to know more about what they’re doing and what the outcomes are on. And, you know, what successful was not now, of course, you’re coming at it from the uso perspective, but hard now they’re our listeners air over twelve thousand people in small and midsize non-profits sure, so the lessons apply equally, right? You know, nowhere and what i’ve said so far. Did i talk about the mission of us? Owe every single non-profit has a mission to deliver some service or product, mostly a service, for the benefit of of their their benefactors, so really it’s about understanding what their mission is and and they can all equally equally gain from increasing their impact, it’s about increasing the impact based on the insights that you have on the data that you’ve collected or can aggregate nowhere and what i just said that i talk about. The uso mission every single non-profit and benefit from it. Okay, i want to make that explicit. I i know it’s true. Otherwise you wouldn’t be here. But i want metoo explicit for our for our listeners. All right, so ah, a lot of this is around empowerment also. Right? So we’re empowering staff to be asking the challenging questions that data can provide answers to. Yeah. Ok right. Are we empowering? Well, empowering is part of it. Yes. That’s a necessary but not sufficient. Okay, so we have to start. You know it has tohave empowerment. They also have to have access so access to the right data stores. And this means breaking down stone by breaking down stovepipes for silos breaking down paradigms of no, this is this is my thing. And then also learning the skill set and the mindset, skill set and mindset. So the skill set to to manipulate tools which, again are being designed to be always there friendly using some of this technology yourself and then and then the mindset is critical as well. Tony is having that inquisitive mind set to what’s what’s really happening here in my fund-raising in my marketing campaign in a program delivery what’s the underlying what’s the activity that’s happened. Who are the players that are impacting it? And what can i or do? I want to learn to make it better. So it’s that inquisitive mind set this is not we won’t get there by what some folks air more accustomed to is generate some report that says, what happened? That’s just reporting that’s the same, you know, something that you can construct and say point to this was thing that happened, this is about in court inquisitor enquiring mind set and interacting with it. So if i’m listening to this and i’m i’m motivated by what you’re saying, but i don’t yet have the top down or the bottom up, or i guess i’m in the bottom or maybe not right in the middle somewhere sure, or might be at the top. We have ceos who listen also how do i get the other end? Or if i’m in neither end, how do we get both ends to buy into this? Yeah, great question. Well, first, we think is start small and show a little benefit and you can do it relatively relatively easily, relatively. Affordably and, you know, for every non-profit every dollar we don’t spend is a dollar that goes to our our mission, and some of the tools are very affordable and show the way do a little pilot hyre we did a proof of concept, the uso first to say, hey, for very few dollars, this is a kind of insights we can generate and here’s iraq without. What do you think? Wow, this is really given tell the story of your your test because i think i think the example will help, okay, listeners understand, you know what? How do you bite off a little bit of this, like, a little a little bit of what? Where do we start? Yeah, absolutely. So we we had, uh we took data from two of our important or two of our sources that support somewhere big, most impactful business processes. One is financial, so that shows a roll up of our fund-raising how we’re doing on revenue, you know, fund-raising and the other is relatively new data set that that we just deployed a system last year for part of our digital transformation, which was collecting usage metrics of our customers, they check into our centers and way made a digital platform that collects the check in and some of that there some of their demographic snoopy ii, obviously and and we have now about six months of here’s how they and when and how they interact with us and what they think of us and what they like. And these are two data sorts one was just talking about the tools, but one was in the great plains data set which many organisations used, which we exported from report into a csp export, relatively simple stuff. And the other was in a sales force back and data set. And what we did is we used a pretty affordable tool for non-profits microsoft power b i it’s okay to talk about product. Certainly. Yes, i want you to. Yeah. Okay. Super yeah. Which is very affordable for a non-profit handup power b i microsoft power b i business business insight. Because this intelligence argast it’s ah it’s in the gardner magic water and for the last two years is one of the top in the b i space non-profit the cost is very affordable there’s a free version as well. And you can experiment the free version. So what we do is we got a little bit of help because if this does require some different mindset, you know, then then folks have been doing one thing for a long time, so we got a partner for a little bit of help to say, okay, help us bill, do some analysis and build some visualizations in a dashboard that shows what what’s happening in these areas, both from financial progress. Oh, and also for our customer usage, we did it in a month or two, just a few dollars, not much product dollars, and we built visualizations and showed it say, hairs here’s, how we’re being used right now, and it was very, very well received. The insights were kind of ah ha moments. So so what i recommend is start with some existing data stores and and sort of identify first what it is you think will be impactful and then showcasing take it around, say, hey, this is some insights. What do you think? And and if it doesn’t get enthusiasm either learned a lesson from it to say what’s more interesting or perk it, move on to something else. Okay. Okay. Test for value early. Yeah. All right. And in a small bit. Yeah. Small piece. Okay, awesome. Ah. All right. So then what? What? What’s, the next step in this you don’t change this culture. So let’s say we get some approval. Okay? This this is pretty stark and i can see some value. Um, otherwise the interview’s over. So we better remove this phone way. We’re not taking the park and move on to something else. Option forget move on. Yeah, what? Where do we go from here now? We with our test results. So where we’re going is an operational pilot and recalled an operation pilot, so because we’re adding a little more funding and setting the setting the goals of a little bit hyre but we’re also not in the same breath, not institutionalizing it yet. So we’re going to expand the number of data stories that we bring in on then here’s the other key, tony, is what we’re also going to do since the product and microsoft power b i again is the one we’re using. It is b is designed so for someone that’s in the line of business, the development department of marketing department, the program delivery, not the geeky tech person it’s not designed for that person is designed so that those that a former that i mentioned can learn how to use it. So we’re rolling out training at the same time, we’re going to take him through here’s how to use the tool and here’s the art of the possible, and let them loose and let them loose on the data, and also let them see, you know, some of the additional products, visualizations and, more importantly, the insight that comes out. We’ll let that run for a while. Say, you know, show us how it’s changed your ability to perform your mission. Okay? Yeah. And where are you in this process? So we finished the proof of concept on we go and let’s see january, late january or february on we look at it for a little bit and were actually just going to start up our operational pilot, which will be a six week effort with some some assistance. We’re gonna start that up in several weeks. So by this summer for april thirtieth. So okay, here a couple weeks away from taking the next step. Will spend about six weeks building it up, and then we’ll look at it for a bit. How do you figure out what what the data is? That is most important for the organization? Well, we’re starting with, you know, the the kp eyes that are most dahna most impactful and most important for insight and that’s a, uh, you know, that’s a that’s, quite frankly, a lift and shift of current reporting. Two more digitised on dh that’s sort of a stepping stone, because these with kp eyes that dahna that air that leadership needs teo, understand where we’re going and where we are, but again that’s ah that’s a stepping stone. So it’s also going to relieve some pain? Because, quite frankly, you know, the other way of doing the reporting takes a lot of time, and a lot of resource is, which is time and resource is to be better well spent by those down the chain of command that have to do all that every organization has that, but instead of we’re goingto automate that enhance it, enhance it, and let me touch another key point because what we can do that can’t be done as effectively as connect the dots across data silos for combined visualizations that tell amore comprehensive story, the whole organization, right, especially the sea level, is interested in that sea level. And we think every yes, but not just to sea level and again that’s a stepping stone, because what comes next and the rial golden ring is ah, and well, we will have accomplished a lot by that intermediate step, which is much more efficient, comprehensive reporting and visualization. But the real golden ring and the next step it is doing predictive analytics and being able, teo asked questions of the data by interacting with him. So there’s a k p i reporting this is the important stuff we need no for how the business is going that’s again, the next step and once it’s all in place and folks get comfortable with it, say, well, i could really ask some questions. You know what i haven’t thought about? Fill in the blank. You know how our current trend is from a predictive analytics perspective, our fund-raising is happening over time or what is the impact if we change these variables? You khun, you could do all of that once. You’re in the platform and uncomfortable. Okay? Got to take a break. Tell us i have a new tell us. Moughniyah lll. Lead quote. Lee elementary school foundation is receiving a monthly donation from tello’s for the credit card processing of a company one of our parents owns is likely the easiest donation source we have ever secured. End quote. A parent’s company. That’s. Brilliant local companies taking credit cards. Do you need more revenue? Get started at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now back to be data driven with eli hurts. Let’s talk about the challenges of doing this. You brought him up earlier. I want to come back to it. Sure. Uh, what what? What should we expect? Yeah, well, there can be some and actually just came from aa good session, where we had this same discussion and with a group full of non-profits and it was it was really it was it was a really wonderful conversation. It became a conversation and of the same topic. And one of the challenges is that one of the non-profits brought up is hey, what if you know your shot in the light on something? That’s? That is kind of a hard story that, you know, has projects bad news where you have been visualized way have start asking questions. We may not always like the answer. You might not like the answer, and what we would suggest is that we shift the focus away from the who, which is can be a tendency if you see something responsible who’s responsible who hasn’t been doing their job who’s been falling short and and shift it more towards the what and what’s the impact on the on the mission than everybody circles around. You know, the conversation about how do we improve the mission based on what we learned, not who’s not been doing their job effective. So it’s changing the conversation based on the insights? Okay, so that that’s one is that the kind of fear three other has changed management? You know, i’ve been doing it this way for a long time, and this is what i was hired to do. So, like many classic change management problems or channel opportunities, it’s about education that can be circumvented with education and finding a few folks that were shown successes with him by doing it a different way with a different tool, shining the light on them and say, hey, this is an early adopter. Look what they were able to dio you could do something similar in your position will help you do that. You mean drawing on the early testing that you did well early? Six it continuing success is its a continual process. Let me give you a specific example. We did the proof of concept way showed the platform the possible everybody, not their head sea level, sweet like that. Others looked at it. Xero but can i do this to answer a question i need to do? And we identified one of those one of those this i really need to tell this toe understand this and tell this story better one just as i’m sure you know, when i tell say, tell the story, it’s obviously not about creating fiction, but it’s about painting the picture what’s going on, and so we identified that person who’s, not technologically savvy didn’t need to be we didn’t create it, so he needed to be that’s the point, and we’re helping him build something so that he can answer that question and expose. That so we could make better decisions. So we built on that success. This is, before we build out the operational pilot way found somebody else who has came to us because they heard about the success, the operational pilot or sort of proof of concept said, hey, i need another answer here. So, you know, we incrementally show successes, leverage some of these early adopters and their successes in trying to bring some skeptics along. Exactly okay, yeah, now the rial on dh so the following we haven’t accomplished yet, tony, i’ll just say that for what i’m about to say, but a study of change management and you’ve probably heard many of the folks you interview talk about it from and one of the best yeah, disciplines. I’ve been through his pro side change management certification encourage it for any non-profit listener is the best three days i’ve ever spent. Tell me again what it is a pro side p r o s c i change management three day certification class and it covers the breath of technology is what one piece of it it’s really about change management? Okay, but if you really but to go get to the next level. So some of things i’ve talked about or some sort of the classic change management techniques what’s, really a strong accelerator is to find a skeptic allowed skeptic on someone who’s yeah, so till happen, you know, if you’re not watching the video, you maybe i can tell i’m laughing. All right? So you probably last on somebody there? Well, i work for myself, but i have in the end, everybody got clients that whatever somebody who’s allowed skeptic, we’ll leave it at that. All right? Yeah, yeah. So every organization sufficient? Yeah. On dh who’s sort of maybe established will say yeah, so they have some credibility in the organization and they’re also established with the way they were used to doing things. If you make that person and advocate, they will amplify the successes to the same degree that they amplified their skepticism. Now that’s the breast, that’s, the it’s dueled brass ring. Yeah, back to your mary-jo exactly, but it’s it’s a it’s a huge accelerate an amplifier so it can be done. But instead of avoiding that skeptic, use um, empathic techniques understand why they’re they’re skeptical. Remember? Well, trying to embrace them train, embrace, understand what they need and then help them. And if they flip and you got maybe a fifty fifty chance i’ll be really but if and when they flip and then the rest the organization, by the way, everybody, when i said that they know who the organization skeptic is, right? Everybody knows so when the organisation sees a skeptic that’s a believer katie bar the doors everybody’s in, so okay. Okay, way exhausted the challenges. Well, one other, you know, is just learning the learning a new approach. It’s a different mindset. So, you know, that’s more, much more the emotional side of the psychological side of change in management. Well, you know, those pieces just address, but there’s also some some, you know, functional skills. Oh, the skills. Yes, you get skillsets the mindset skillsets so i spoke to a willingness to take on new skill and the ability. So it’s it’s a different way of operating it’s about, you know, the science behind data science is about exploring and experimenting and asking questions and telling a story. Eso again, a lot of us, you know, and many parts organizations say, hey, bill, be a report that shows nothing fund-raising how much you know how many impressions were on the website or whatever? How many times are programmers using a report? You know, it’s more of a diagnostic or reporting this is what happened? And they say, here’s, what happened? But what this cannon and get to with a different skill set is ask some questions on dh, interact with it, tio, connect the dots, teo answer answer, tell the story of what’s really going on versus saying what? What happened? Okay, eli, i want to talk about some of the tools that way because we just have a couple minutes left, okay? Uh, tools that can help with this with this process, yeah, yeah. So one i wrote, we use and and we’re having very good success with it is microsoft power b i mentioned and that’s the primary one now the other is, you know, the benefit of it is the tool is it can integrate and interact with the data wherever it is, so you don’t have to create something new, leave it in place and integrated. There are a few, you know, competitors in the place in the in the space. That’s the one we’re getting no success, we’ve put a lot of our operational data and a sales force back end, which we built up for several reasons and integrating it in on dh and again, others and data in place. So those those are some of the primary ones the sales force haven’t add on for this kind of data introspection, they do, they do they call it einstein analytics, einstein yeah, and sales force just recently, we’re recording this in april of twenty eighteen they just recently perp made a purchase of another integration product called mulesoft so they’re going to integrate that product so that in their analytics engine they can pull in other data sources, which is really important fan letters because a lot of systems have been built up as here’s, my tool or data set based on what’s happening in this piece of the process and really to tell the comprehensive picture is about connecting the dots so you won’t be able to pull in from several sources. So salesforce’s getting has that capability and einstein analytics with mulesoft added tio okay, we have just about a minute or so left and i want to ask you what is it? You know, vice president of information technology. Yeah, yeah. What is it you love about the work you do? Oh, great question. Thanks for asking. People don’t think about it. It is a lovable, lovable office toe working, let alone lead. Yeah there’s a little maytag repairman have the successive nobody’s angry, right? Yeah, when i really like about is we’re rolling out capabilities that are that are making a everybody’s every employee’s job better, more effective cut across the hall organise a cross organization and we feel that we can make them more efficient by either the systems where the insights they get that gives lifts to the entire organization. We’re also changing the way we’re we’re interact with our constituents or service members were rolled out a mobile app. Recently go the apple or google play and download the usl app it’s really gratifying to know that weekend engage with our customers in away reach him where they are dahna but really it all rolls back to we can make the mission more effective, and if we can save a dollar while we’re doing it and then as a non-profit we’re serving. Our service members are constituents more effectively and that’s. Gratifying. Are you a vet? I am. Yeah, i am too. Well, thank you for your support. Thank you. You thank me. First what service? I was in the navy about you turning air force air force. Okay. We so we should have a little rivalry going on here. Very friendly, though. Of course. Eli hurts. He’s, the vice president of information technology for united service organizations uso this interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you very much. Thank you. To you know pleasure. Thanks. Thanks. And this is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. Thank you so much for being with us next week. Change agents on your board and more from the non-profit technology conference. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Durney dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Show social media is by susan chavez, and this very cool music is by scott stein. We will be next week for non-profit radio. 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