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Nonprofit Radio for March 18, 2024: Artificial Intelligence For Nonprofits, Redux


Justin Spelhaug, Amy Sample Ward, & Tristan Penn: Artificial Intelligence For Nonprofits, Redux

A second savvy panel takes on the impact, leadership demands, promises, responsibilities, and future of AI across the nonprofit community. We convened a panel in June last year. But this is an enormous shift in nonprofit workplaces that deserves another look. This panel is Justin Spelhaug, from Technology for Social Impact at Microsoft, and Amy Sample Ward and Tristan Penn from NTEN.


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And welcome to Tony Martignetti nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host and the pod father of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be forced to endure the pain of chronic inflammatory demyelinating, poly reticular neuropathy. If you attacked me with the idea that you missed this week’s show, that one is so good. It deserves two weeks and plus I spent a week practicing it. So it lives on for one more week. Here’s our associate producer to introduce this week’s show. Hey, Tony, I’m on it. It’s Artificial Intelligence for nonprofits. Redux, a second savvy panel takes on the impact, leadership demands, promises responsibilities and future of A I across the nonprofit community. We convened a panel in June last year, but this is an enormous shift in nonprofit workplaces that deserves another look. This panel is Justin Spell Haug from technology for social impact at Microsoft and Amy Sample Ward and Tristan Penn from N 10 on Tony’s take two. Thank you. We’re sponsored by donor box, outdated donation forms blocking your support of generosity. Donor box fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit donor box.org and by virtuous, virtuous gives you the nonprofit CRM fundraising volunteer and marketing tools. You need to create more responsive donor experiences and grow. Giving. Virtuous.org. Here is Artificial Intelligence for nonprofits redux. We’re talking this week about artificial intelligence. Again, it’s an important topic. Uh We did this with a panel in June last year today, a different distinguished panel shares their thoughts on this transformative technology. It’s timely, It’s got a lot of promise and a lot of risks. It’s moving fast. Those are the reasons why nonprofit radio is devoting multiple episodes to it. What are the promises and the responsibilities? What’s the role of nonprofit leadership about government? What are the equity concerns? The biases? What about access to this intelligence? What are the preconditions for successful integration at your nonprofit? What’s the future of artificial intelligence? Who to share their thinking? Are Justin Spell Hog recently promoted Justin Spell Haug. He is corporate vice president and global head of technology for Social Impact at Microsoft. You’ll find Justin on linkedin. Justin. Welcome to nonprofit radio. Congratulations on your promotion from vice president to corporate vice president at the uh enormous company Microsoft. It’s great to be here with the pod father. It’s a new name. So I’m proud to, proud to be here and look forward to the conversation. All right. Well, I’m glad it’s the first time you’ve heard the pod father. It’s, there’s on, there can be only one really there, there ought to be only one. So I’m glad it’s the first time. Um And I see, you know, global head. I’m sorry, you’re a little bit limited. You’re not working in the stratosphere, the ionosphere, the troposphere, you’re strictly limited to the globe. I’m sorry, we all have our constraints. We are working on Mars and the moon uh soon, but we gotta get a broader population of nonprofits there. All right. So we, we’re limited to the globe. I’m sorry for you, Amy Stample Ward. We know them. They are nonprofit radio’s technology contributor and the CEO of N 10. They’re at Amy Sample ward.org and at Amy RS Ward, Amy, it’s great to see you. Welcome back. Of course. Thanks. I know there have been a number of different conversations about A I that you’ve had on nonprofit radio. Um I’ve listened to them, I haven’t been in all of them. They’ve been great and, you know, we talked a little bit about a IJ and I, you know, when we started off with some of what’s gonna be big topics in the sector for 2024. So excited to be in a conversation kind of dedicated to that. I’m glad you are and Tristan Penn, welcoming back Tristan, he is equity and accountability director at N 10 as a Black and NAVAJO professional. He’s served on previous organizations, equity teams and been a facilitator for de I rooted in racial equity. Tristan is on linkedin, Tristan. Welcome back. Awesome. So happy to be here. Um Thank you for having me, excited to have this conversation with um Amy, who I work very closely with and um it’s really good to see you too and um also excited to have this conversation with Justin to see um you know what we can unearth. Yes, we’re, we’re representing the big tech perspective. Um Amy, since you are our tech contributor, uh we’re gonna start off, you know, just big picture. What are your, what are your thinking? What is your thinking? What are your concerns? Big picture stuff. Yeah. Well, I’m glad that we’ve scheduled five hours for this interview. I will be taking the first four. Thank you so much. I have many thoughts. Uh many concerns, many, uh you know, I think there’s so there’s just a lot to get into, I think some top level, you know, bites to put at the beginning here are, there’s a lot of hype and as with anything that falls into the hype machine, I think nonprofits do not need to fall, you know, victim to like, oh my gosh, I read this one article so I have to do the thing, right? Um There’s, there’s time A I is not done, the world is now now, not already over and everything’s predetermined, right? So, um you, you’ve seen the article that was like a I will end humanity? Ok. Ok. Here we are let’s calm down and talk about things. So I, I know I’ve talked to nonprofits whose boards are, like, I read that article and A I is good. You know, it’s ending all of us like we can take our time. That’s one piece. Uh, I also think it’s important for organizations to think about where they are already working, what communities they already work with, what data they already have. Like this isn’t start a new project when we’re talking about A I. Um And so I think we’ll get into that more in our, in our conversations here. Um And of course, that A I isn’t new. Well, I mean, artificial intelligence is a phrase is the, is the broadest umbrella term we could use for these types of technologies. And so to, to have these sentences that say like A I is new and it’s here and it’s going so fast. Like what is that? That’s like encompassing so many different components of technology. Uh And so what do, what do we really mean when we’re talking about A I? Are you talking about a model that you set up inside of your organization? You know, to help identify program participants that need extra support? That could, that can be A A I. But that’s very different than saying, oh yeah, we’re just using chat GP T to help, you know, start some of our drafts. OK. Those are so they are wildly different things. And so to talk about them in the same breath as it’s all a I it sets folks up to already have kind of a disconnected conversation even from the start. All right. Thank you and hold our feet to the fire. Uh Especially me because the three of you think about this all the time and I don’t. So, you know, if I, if I lose that context that you just revealed, shared with us, please, uh call me out. All right, Justin big picture, please. What do you go on Amy? You know, the hype cycle of it’s gonna save us, it’s gonna destroy us. And now just kind of how do we make use of it? We’ve been going through this, this process as a, as a community. I, I think one of the things when I zoom out, I, I just see um some tectonic shifts that are impacting the sector from some big demographic shifts in European countries in the United States where we force is getting older, that’s putting tons of pressure on aged care and front line community workers, some big shifts in uh continents like Africa where education, skilling and jobs are all critical and the nonprofits facing off on these issues aren’t getting any additional funding. GDP is stabilized in many countries, but we’ve hit a new set point for inflation that’s impacting pocketbooks. It’s impacting people’s ability to raise money. And so really, you know, the question that we have to ask is how do we use A I in, in missions to help organizations raise more money, help them deliver more effective program, help them rise to these challenges that are continuing to create pressure in the sector. And how do we do all of that in a way that’s responsible in a way that’s safe in a way that’s inclusive. And that’s actually a pretty complex topic that I hope we spend some time on. Indeed. And thank you for the uh global perspective. Tristan, big picture of thoughts, please. I have lots of thoughts similar to, to Amy. And I, I think where I start off with is kind of like in a very, uh, I worked for 20 years and I still am working in, in nonprofit and I see how, um over those years nonprofits and, you know, small organizations have seen something that’s bright and glittery and then like, so amazed by it and been like, yes, we want it, we’re going to take it in and we have no process for building it into our, our operations. We have no forethought for it. We have no contingency to, um, to live by when we’re folding this in this ideal state. We, we’ve already jumped like multiple steps to um us envisioning how we’re going to operate with this bright shiny tool that we have. And that’s never been the case in my years, um, that I’ve, I’ve been a nonprofit and it’s, if anything, it’s always been uh folded in, in a way that doesn’t have a lot of forethought too. So I think the things that come to mind for me that make me curious and also a little bit, um, reticence um about just the blanket, the umbrella term A I is um folding it in where it makes sense and not where you want to add a little, you know, uh icing on your cake where it does where it needs none. And so, um that’s where II I intersect with it. There’s another piece of it um where I, I am a little um critical of it and concerned about it. Um because I think that this can, you know, we, to Amy’s point, we think about A I and a lot of people go in different directions. I think the, the baseline for a lot of people is they go to like a I generated pictures or chat GP T um to do those things and it’s much more than that, but I do think about a time anecdotally where um I was at a conference and I was um passing by a booth and there was like a very lovely, you know, picture of an older um couple and I was like, oh, that reminds me of my grandparents. It was an older black couple and I was like, oh, that’s so cute. It reminds me a lot of my grandparents. It’s like very, you know, and then I I went in closer and this is a, a booth that’s, you know, managed by a bunch of white folks. And, um, and then they were like, oh, did you know that this is an A I generated picture? And that didn’t feel good to me as a black person that didn’t feel good. It felt incredibly like I had been misled in a really scary way. Um I feel like I have a really good detector of like what’s real, what’s not my BS detector is like always up and on and that scared me because I was duped hard and that scares me in a way um less about nonprofits, but just the overall overall globalization and usage of it and implementation that it could go in to hand to the hands of people and create false narratives about marginalized groups um just based on what they, what product they wanna sell. And that is scary. Um And that, that’s something that I think um has just stuck with me for um for a while. Thank you for raising the the risks and, and potential, you know, misuse abuse. We, we need to go to artificial intelligence to create a uh a picture of an elderly black couple that was, it was necessary to do. And also thank you for the valuable parallel, you know, you, you make me think of uh social media adoption when Facebook was new, you know, we, we assigned it to an intern and we put it like the cherry on top where we didn’t need a cherry, but the intern had used it in college. So, you know, she may as well do it for us full time. Uh It very valuable, interesting parallel. Um Amy start us off with just a common I definition, you know, um artificial intelligence, generative, I mean, a generative artificial intelligence. That’s, that’s what we’re largely going to be talking about. Uh if not exclusively. I, I think so, what is, what is, there’s a lot of that? I think we’re, we’ll start with taking one at one at a time, right? Sure. No, I was just gonna say, I think um we already are exposed when we’re thinking about technology in our nonprofit organizations to lots of different terms, lots of different companies putting things out there with the uh not necessarily cloaked, you know, it’s not, it’s not a hidden desire to reinforce that they’re specialists, they know what they’re doing. And like us lowly nonprofits don’t know, we couldn’t understand those fancy terms, right? And so I always, I mean, I teach a course and I always remind folks like you absolutely can know what these words mean, you know. Um And I appreciate that there are so many places even actually, like I, I, I’m never somebody that promotes um these things. So folks know this, but like Microsoft has actually offered, you know, community learning spaces to say these are what these words mean. Um So artificial intelligence is like I said, the biggest umbrella term for all different types, generative A I uh machine learning, all of these components that people might talk about as if they are one different thing. They’re all like within that same A I umbrella. And I just want to say two words because they’ll probably come up in our conversation. I know you want to go one word at a time. But the words I hear from folks the most where they’re not, they feel like they should know what this word means and they don’t and they feel like silly that they don’t understand our algorithm and model those words are used all the time in talking about generative A I, which means the tool is, is set up to generate something back for you. Tristan used an image, uh you know, visual image uh example, but that could be text, that could be video, that could be audio, you know, it’s, it’s asking the the tool to generate something for you. Um But an algorithm we’ve heard this word like, you know, oh Facebook’s algorithm is like choosing what I see, right? The algorithm means the set of rules. So in Facebook’s newsfeed, that set of rules says if something already has a bunch of likes prioritize it, right? If it has uh you know, two friends that you’re connected to already commenting, prioritize, so it’s whatever that set of rules is that says this is how to generate a older black couple image, what whatever those rules were, that’s what algorithm means. And model essentially means like you can think of the same, the the word is used in the same way as uh when you say model about cars like it is the whole set put together, right? It’s got the data, it has the algorithm, the rules that say how, how to do it, it has the input, whatever you’re gonna ask it to do that kind of when people say what’s the model? They’re really saying. OK. What, what’s the package uh of how this tool is working? Thank you for all that. It’s time for a break. Open up new cashless in person donation opportunities with Donor box live kiosk. The smart way to accept cashless donations. Anywhere, anytime picture this a cash free on site giving solution that effortlessly collects donations from credit cards, debit cards and digital wallets. No team member required. Plus your donation data is automatically synced with your donor box account. No manual data entry or errors make giving a breeze and focus on what matters your cause. Try donor box live kiosk and revolutionize the way you collect donations in 2024. Visit Donor box.org to learn more. Now, back to artificial intelligence for nonprofits. Redux, Justin, I see you taking lots of notes. What’s uh what’s going on? What’s going on in your head? What what? No, I think um what just as Amy highlighted. One of the things that’s important to highlight is um we, we’ve been using A I for a really, really long time and there are really important use cases that have nothing to do with, with generative A I, things like machine learning, right? That allows us to do things like predict donation, things like machine language that allows us to translate from one language to another. Things like machine vision that allows us to identify and classify objects. All of those are important um tools as we look to solve different problems. Um In in the sector, generative A I is as Amy was highlighting is a new class of artificial intelligence that allows that’s capable of creating effectively novel content because it’s reasoning across, you know, all of the information in the internet and using as a news highlighting algorithms to identify patterns that allows it to um you know, produce answers in a really uh in, in many times intelligent ways. However, uh as Tristan was highlighting, you know, ensuring that um these models are inclusive, are representative, are safe, are understood, are all things that were continuing to work uh to put frameworks around and tools around uh so that they uh produce positive impact, not negative impact. And Justin how can we ensure that that actually happens? You know, there, there’s a lot of talk about biases, you know, uh the the the large language models are trained on predominantly white uh uh language sources. So you’re gonna, there’s so there’s bias uh the, the so that, you know, there are equity issues. But uh what uh what is the big tech doing to actually uh keep these, keep equity centered in and, and keep lack of biases centered as these models are adopted using the algorithms that, that Amy just defined for us. Yeah, it’s a really multifaceted answer. I’ll only hit two points and we can go much deeper if we want, we release. Uh just in fact, in the last week, this the Microsoft A I access principles trying to get at this very problem which has 11 core components. I’ll speak to two to give you a flavor of the kinds of things that we need to do as we think about the A I economy globally to ensure it’s fair, representative uh and safe. The one of the principles is making sure that A I models and development tools are broadly available to software developers everywhere in the world, everywhere in the world and every culture in the world training on the language and on the history uh and on the societies all around the world uh to create much, much more representation. As you probably know, many of the models have been developed in North America and therefore reflect some of those cultural biases. So, federating these tools that is critical uh in the in the A I economy. Secondly, you know, um companies and organizations that produce A I need to have rules uh for how they um check and balance the A I to ensure that it’s responsible, it’s fair, it’s safe, it respects privacy, it respects uh security, it’s inclusive, it’s transparent and we call those rules that Microsoft are responsible A I framework and it’s not just a set of principles, it’s actually an engineering standard. And when applying that engineering standard, we were looking at uh fairness in speech to text. So taking speech and transforming it into text and we found it was a couple of years ago, we produced this article that our, our speech to text algorithms were not as accurate Black and African American communities in the United States as they were for Caucasian communities. Um And that was largely a function of the training data that was used. And so we had to take a step back using our framework that caught this issue to say, how do we work with the communities more effectively? How do we bring socio linguists in to help us understand how to capture all of the rich diverse city of language to make sure that our speech to text capability is representative of every citizen that we’re, we’re rolling this out to. And that’s an exam and we did that and, and today it performs much better and there’s more work to do. But it’s those kinds of frameworks and guard rails that are really important in helping uh people design this stuff in a way that benefits everyone. Tristan. What’s your reaction? You, you’re thinking about equity all the time. Um What’s my reaction? What isn’t my reaction? And I would say, um I, I love that and I love what Justin was saying about um how, you know, making it a Federated model as opposed to it. I mean, yeah, everything, I only say everything but a good amount of things are being generated created curated in North America and baked into those models and algorithms are like biases that skewed towards white men. And um and that’s not OK. I think that excludes me in particular, but also like, you know, I, I think um having um a plan for that as opposed to being reactionary to being like, well, gosh, we didn’t know what was going on and being um uh a little more, less reactionary and more um forward thinking in that way. Yeah, proactive um is, is always a good place to start. I think a few other things that do come to mind too in terms of um making sure that communities of color marginalized communities are um not um constantly shouldering even outside of A I but constantly shouldering um the mess ups of like the brand new tool that came out on the market and that seems to always be the case and there’s always like a headline months later where it’s like, so and so we found out, this tool wasn’t geared towards her facial recognition wasn’t geared towards like, you know, black folks. Um, and it was like, historically wrong. And so I, I think about those things, but I also think about um, it through a nonprofit lens because we’re on a nonprofit call. Um, and I, um, I bring up the, another anecdotal story of um having, uh, being on a call and having an A I note taker bot um hop into the zoom call too. I think we’ve within like the last half year we’ve been on calls where it’s like, oh, I don’t know about some actual person or a thing or like, you know, it, it’s very ambiguously named sometimes where it’s like Otter, one of them is Otter, right? And this Otter is all of a sudden it’s in our meeting. This Otter is, yeah. And I think, you know, there is a lot of benefit, there’s a lot of benefit in having um you know, uh note taking tools and um also captioning tools that are, are, are for folks in terms of accessibility. There are folks that have completely different learning styles. There are folks that take in information at different levels and different wavelengths of things. And I say that all to say that like, you know, I would like to see a world where um it was scarier um with, to keep with the Otter Box or not Otter Box. Sorry, that’s not Otter Box is not a sponsor of this. Um But the Otter A I um uh gene Note taking tool was that after I got an email randomly from the, the note taker to all the people also to all the people that were in that call with a um a narrative recap of everything that we, we talked over. It wasn’t a transcript, it was a narrative recap, which is fine enough. OK. Um There were, there was a screenshot of just a random person that was on the call that was also there. And also um what’s most scary for me, I think or just very concerning um is um at the bottom, it was like here’s the productivity score of the call, 84% here’s the engagement of the call, 72%. And it’s like where it, where is at least, at the very least, where’s the asterisk at the bottom that says this is how we calculated this whatever. And I, I immediately go, I’m not a pessimist, but in that moment, I was like, this is going to be used by people in higher positions, people in power to wield over folks, middle management and direct service to say, hey man, you didn’t have a um 84% or higher engagement score on our last zoom call, you are now on a personal improvement plan and that is a scary place to be. And so I think less about like these tools are what they are. But I think about the people and the systems and the toxic systems at times that sometimes wield these brand new shiny tools in a way that doesn’t feel good and also is working against their mission and against their employees. Its time for Tonys take two. Thank you, Kate and thank you for supporting nonprofit radio. Uh I like to say thanks every once in a while because I don’t want you to think that we’re taking you for granted. I’m grateful, grateful for your listening. And if you get the insider alerts each week, I’m grateful that you get those letting us into your inbox. Um This week, I’m in Portland, Oregon recording a whole bunch of good savvy smart interviewers for upcoming episodes. Hopefully, that helps like show our gratitude because we’re out here collecting good interviews for you to listen to if you can’t make the nonprofit technology conference yourself. So thank you. I’m grateful that you listen, grateful that you’re with us week after week. That’s Tonys take two Kate. Thank you guys so much for listening to us every week. We appreciate you. Well, we’ve got Buku but loads more time. Let’s return to artificial intelligence for nonprofits redux with Justin Spell Haug Amy Sample Ward and Tristan Penn Ki. I love that you brought that up. Um Don’t love that it happened that you brought it up as an example here for folks because I think it’s uh a easy entryway into a conversation on one of the points Tony mentioned at the start of the call, like, what are some of these preconditions? Um And you were like, oh people are like, oh bright shiny, right? That’s what we do. Oh bright shiny, like I’m going to use this tool that like took the notes in here and a place where we’ve seen for many people, many years in in ten’s research is that nonprofits struggle. This isn’t to say that for profit companies don’t also struggle with this, but nonprofit organizations struggle with consent, they struggle with privacy and security. And so here’s a well meaning well intentioned, right? I’m going to use this tool except it’s emailing you, you didn’t consent to that. It emailed all the participants in the call. There was no opt in, right? Let alone a very clear opt out like why did I even get this? Um That’s not even to say opting into sentiment analysis of whatever is a community zoom call, right? Um And so when we peel that back and say, OK, well, we just wouldn’t use that note taking, right? Sure. But when we’re thinking about preconditions for this effective work as an organization do, what are your data policies in general? The number of organizations that we work with that still don’t have a data policy because they think, well, isn’t there like some law about data? So like we, why would we have our own policy? OK, there is some law related to data, right? Different types of data have different laws, but that’s not the same as an organization saying, what data do we collect? Why do we collect it? How long do we retain it? What if somebody wants us to remove it? How do we do that in our systems? Right. So this level of uh fidelity to your own data, to your own community members, to the policies that you’ve set up to manage those relationships. Um And trust for so many organizations are already not in place or, or like I said, there’s just not a fidelity to them that that makes them trusted. So then to say, oh yeah, we’re ready to, we’re ready to add this note taking app to our community calls or our client calls. It just that that’s the place where I have the most fear is actually not the tools having bias. I know they have bias and that is a place of concern and, and a place we can, can address it. But my mo the most fear I have is people still operating within that without any of the structures or policies or, or training to deal with both maybe bias and a tool they use and their own bias or their own issues, right? And it it accelerates the harm that that can be created in that. I mean, I want to use some of that to, to go to Justin and uh that’s something very closely related. Uh the, the uh the nonprofit leadership role, the responsibility of, of nonprofit leaders. I think it gets to a lot of what Amy was just talking about. But what, what do you, what do you see as the, the responsibility of nonprofit leadership in, in formulating these policies? But also in just, you know, making sure that the preconditions are there so that we, we can be successful in integrating artificial intelligence, whether we’re bringing an exterior, an outside tool or, or or building our own. Even that, that may be a, that may be a big lift for a lot of listeners. But, but generally the, the, the nonprofit leadership’s role. Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of the nonprofit leadership play today and I think we have to meet uh leaders where, where they’re at and, and I think the very first step and Amy mentioned this in the very beginning of the call is raising the the capacity of their knowledge and of their staff’s knowledge of how these tools work and uh what are the edges of the tools and how to apply them effectively in the flow of work. And um there is training available as, as an example, we have a four hour course on linkedin. You don’t need to do it all at once, but it’s actually pretty good. It’s for, it’s not for developers, it’s not for techies, it’s for front line program, staff, fundraising staff finance staff, the, the, the ed uh to really learn about how to think about these tools with that knowledge. Then you can take the next step, which is starting to engage, I think, simple ways to apply these tools to get on the uh on the ground experience of what they’re good at and what they’re not good at. Um you know, using things like uh from Microsoft. So I’ll mention, you know, BB or, or, or Microsoft Copilot to look at writing donor appeal letters or whatever the process may be, they can just start learning about these fundamental language models and what they’re good at. Um I think it’s important as an organization thinks about getting deeper into A I and really thinking about how do they apply it to their processes, whether that be fundraising, whether that be engagement with beneficiaries that they think really deeply about data uh and data classification and that, that, that gets a little sophisticated, but just ensuring that we’ve, we’ve got a strategy to use A I for the data that we want to use A I for and that we segment data that we do not want A I to reason on away. So start with, start with getting the basic skill skills built out. Um A lot of uh organizations I met I meet with are just at the very beginning stage of that, use the simplest tools to accommodate uh the job to get some experience and then start to think longer range around data, data, classification and more advanced scenarios that can be applied. Tony. Can I just, what’s that four hour course on uh Tristan? Let me just let me drill down on a free resource. I love free resources for our listeners. Tristan answers. It’s a linkedin course uh nonprofit uh A I fundamentals. But let me get that for you here. Ok, Tristan, go ahead. Yeah. Um Can I um I really like how Justin um initial uh said, you know, there’s a lot of nonprofit leaders plates already too in terms of responsibility. And I want to gently push um and answer your invite to, to call you in Tony um in, in the premise of the question which, which was what’s, what is the responsibility of, of nonprofit leaders now? And I would say yes, there, obviously, there’s a responsibility as Justin has illustrated that like we need to be better in terms of strategy um in terms of tech, in terms of A I um in general on how we fold these, these crucial tools in. But I would also say that there’s an equal and almost um larger responsibility on those who fund nonprofits. Um I think a lot of times in the nonprofits that I’ve worked with, interacted with and worked within um their operational and financial model has been very ham handedly built in a very um doctor Susan way, which doesn’t really make sense at times and it’s because a year after year, there are different grants, different fundings that require different things um at different times based on whatever the the hot new term is. Uh 1015 years ago, it was mentoring. So a lot of times everything was geared towards mentors. And I say that because this implies that um a lot of these nonprofits are already built on a structure that is very shaky. And so there’s a lot of other things that need to be done. But I do think um a big responsibility sits with folks who fund um nonprofits foundations. Um and also local governments, federal, the federal government in making sure that when they are pushing a grant or um putting out an RFP for a grant that says you need to fold in tech and you need to fold in A I in this way to get kids to learn or get kids in seats um in the classroom that you’re doing. So in a way that creates um longevity and solid um solid nonprofit organi operational work. Um And just doesn’t like slap an ipad in front of a kid. Um And I think that’s really, I used to work with boys and girls club. So that’s where I always default. Um But III I think that um I’ve based on my experience, it’s always been um a really weird way um of, of having um o going into a financial model um of an organization year after year because it’s like, oh, well, that we started doing that because last year’s grant asked for it and now we just do it into perpetuity. And so again, you have that little weird Dr Seuss style way of thinking. And I think um funders and um grant, um grant folks can do a lot by being very clear and very um forward thinking and how they are offering up these monies. It’s time for a break. Virtuous is a software company committed to helping nonprofits grow generosity. Virtuous believes that generosity has the power to create profound change in the world. And in the heart of the giver, it’s their mission to move the needle on global generosity by helping nonprofits better connect with and inspire their givers, responsive fundraising puts the donor at the center of fundraising and grows giving through personalized donor journeys. The response to the needs of each individual. Virtuous is the only responsive nonprofit CRM designed to help you build deeper relationships with every donor at scale. Virtuous. Gives you the nonprofit CRM fundraising, volunteer marketing and automation tools. You need to create responsive experiences that build trust and grow impact virtuous.org. Now back to artificial intelligence for nonprofits redux, you know, that’s not only the mindset like this, this, it, it feels like they’re being strategic by saying, oh, yeah. Well, we were able to come, we were able to pitch that in a way that we got the fund, but then that’s changing their strategies all the time. It also back to the point before is meaning the data you have to work with inside your organization is OK. Well, two years, we structured it this way for two years, we structured it this way. Do we even have like a unique idea to connect these people and say, oh, they were in both of those programs, like our own data sets are messy and influenced by funders saying, oh, now we need you to collect these demographic markers, you know, and it’s, it’s we we as organizations are often pressured by those funders to do it the way they want because it’s easier for them. Um and tells the story, they want to tell, but that’s really, really messing up the data sets and the program kind of uh processes or, or business processes that we have in place. And I I just wanted to connect that to broader things that intens worked on and advocated for for many years from the equity guide specific to funders. And that is that funding technology projects takes time and it takes a lot more money than like $30,000 for whatever the licenses are for something, right? Like it’s not uncommon that an organization building a model, an internal use model. This isn’t some big flashy commercial thing. This is just for them to, you know, like I said before, identify program participants that maybe, you know, could use intervention it’s not uncommon that would take two dozen tries to get the right model in place right? To really make sure the algorithm is, is fine tuned that the outputs are appropriate. Well, you can’t go through two dozen models in, in three months, right? And then have something there. A nonprofit would need a couple of years. And our, our funders, there’s already plenty of funders saying like, oh, now we have this A I grant, you know, opportunity or is that grant gonna be comprehensive of the work to get their data in a good place to get their program, staff ready and trained to Justin’s Point. Every staff person really trained adequately on, on not just what are these tools but what’s a good prompt? What’s a good use case for this, right? All of those pieces so that they can adequately and materially contribute to, then what is this project we want to do? What is the best fit for us and how do we, how do we build it and, and just to add on and we’ll wrap up to Amy’s Point and Tristan’s Point A I hasn’t changed the fundamental physics of what makes a good technology project. I mean, it’s people, it’s process, it’s tools, it’s capacity building, it’s a long term strategy, all that is the same. Um And if your listeners are wondering, where do I even get started in understanding the language of this stuff? Uh Because you asked the question. It’s called Career Essentials in Generative A I it’s on linkedin, it’s free. Uh And I take it it’s, it’s pretty good. So I think it’s worth worthwhile for your listeners. Thank you, Justin. How about uh in 10 Amy, what resources for folks? I mean, hopefully they’re already going to the nonprofit technology conference where there are gonna be a lot of, uh there are a lot of sessions on artificial intelligence. I know because I’m gonna be interviewing a bunch of those folks. So this is, this is probably the second of, I don’t know, six or seven A I episodes uh in, in, in different uh around different subjects. But N 10, N as N 10 as a resource for learning A, we have lots of them. There’s um you know, work uh not workbook but like a guide. There’s of course, the equity guide, there’s some materials on the website. We have an A I course and other courses that talk about A I, there’s community groups where you can ask questions and of course the conference. But uh thanks to Microsoft and Octa gave us some um supporting funding and 10 along with Institute for the future and project evident are at the tail end of a community design process where we’ve worked with over 40 organizations um in this process to create an A I framework for organizations, whether you’re a nonprofit or not, who are trying to make decisions around A I and our framing for this is the framework for an equitable world. So it isn’t just that you are a 501 C three registered in the US, right? Or that you’re a grassroots organization in whatever country like if you want to live in that equitable world, then this is the framework that we can all share and work in together. Um We’re going to do a little preview at the end TC and have whoever comes to the session is gonna get to road test it with us and then we’ll publish it publicly after the NTC. Um So lots more and obviously, I’ll, I’ll share that with you when it comes out. But um what’s really, I think important from this is that it is a framework that uh is built on the idea that all of us are part of these decisions that all of us have responsibility in these decisions. Um And that all of us are accountable to building, right? This isn’t um you know, the quote unquote, responsible tech or this isn’t like this isn’t just for those projects where you’re, where you’re gonna do something good over here. This is whatever we’re doing, it’s gotta be good. It’s gotta be building us into an equitable world because what else are we doing here? Right. If it’s not for that. Um And so I’m excited for folks to get to use it. It’ll be published for free everywhere anybody use it. Please go, you know. Um, so lots more on that too. Amy. You are perfectly consistent with the framed quote that you have behind you. All of us are in this life together. You’re living your, you’re living your framed art. Uh, uh, I admire it. Uh, Justin, we have, we’ve got maybe 10 minutes left. What, what would you like to talk about? We haven’t, we haven’t touched on yet or go further on something we have. Well, no, maybe, maybe I’ll just um build a little bit on what Amy was the question you asked, what are, what are the resources available? So I think that’s pretty useful to the, to the organization. So, so one is, one is the training that I mentioned too is uh we just recently ran a nonprofit Leaders Summit where we, where we had 5600 people together. Uh uh about 4500 online, about 1000 in a room talking about how do we grapple with A I? How do, what are the use cases that make this make sense? How do we think about data security and privacy? And we’re going to continue to invest in in that? We’re going to be rolling that out more globally as well with uh events in Australia and others. But that convening and that dial and just getting the community and dialogue I think is so important. I I learned a ton from that. We’re also going to continue to push on affordability and making sure that uh we’ve got affordable access to our technology so that every organization can use things like Microsoft Copilot uh for, for free um providing, you know that they, they’ve got access to our nonprofit offers and then finally, innovation. And I, I’m, I’m interested looking at scenarios that span the sector where if we invest, once we can create a multiplier effect. And one of the areas that we’re, we’re partnering on is with Save The Children Oxfam and many other organizations on the humanitarian data exchange, which is a large data set used to help organizations coordinate humanitarian and disaster relief domestically and internationally in a more effective manner. Uh So our mission don’t overlap uh but that data set hasn’t been super useful to date, applying things like language models training on that and creating a tool set that is cross sector for many organizations, you’ll see us um continuing to invest in that way. And I look forward to ideas from our intent partners here on the phone as well as you know, the community at large on on where we can make bets that will really help the sector together. Uh move, move forward Tristan. What would you like to touch on or, or go deeper in? We’ve got uh we got the, it’s 78 minutes or so. Um You know, I, I think I just wanna underscore what, what Amy was talking about and that we’ve, we’ve all been working on. Um, which is the, uh, I’m a little tired of you underscoring Amy, Amy and you, we force each other. You know, I agree with you should have seen us, we work together. It’s getting a little dull. It’s a little dull. Now. You should have seen us when we were in office. Our desks were 20 ft away from each other and there was a constant, there was a worn line in between our desks and nobody wants to be in between in that 20 ft in that 20 ft space. Um I will say um being a part of the community group, what Amy was saying about working with 40 other organizations um to figure out what um a healthy and um robust and equitable processes for any organization to um interact with and um field A I is crucial and I’m, I’m so glad that we are able to be a part of it and we’re, we’re going to be um debut it at NTC. It’s something that I’ve learned a lot from just based on someone who again, like I said before, I came from youth development. My degree is in child psych. Um So, but I’ve learned a lot over the years um working with N 10, working at N 10. Um But I think um one thing that’s, that’s been uh really, really beneficial is learning from all those folks in the group and um a couple of things that did come up in when we were creating that framework, which uh was um that organizations are making all kinds of decisions every day today. Um And I, I will say that it kind of highlights that I, we are talking about A I and how it like will look sound and feel and how it looks. This is all kind of uh we’re not meaning it to be, but it’s all within a vacuum. Um And we can’t think like that. We can’t think of all of us who have now, we are four years out from 2020 our lives were forever changed and every nonprofit will have their own sad story to tell about how the um the pandemic impacted them. And I say that to say is that like none, no one was prepared for that. And so if we um keep on talking about or um playing around with this idea of A I is like, it’s going to solve problems or it’s going to sit in this world um in this vacuum, we’re not doing ourselves justice and we’re being very forgetful about the past that we just went through. And so if we’re able to instead consider how A I will interact with the dynamic world that we all live within, um That’s going to better behoove us um both individually, but also organizationally when we’re planning strategically. Um If that’s year after year for you, if that’s every five years, I don’t know what that is. Um So having that strong tech um baseline for folks. And then I think also the other thing is people in all roles are considering A I and aren’t sure how it applies to them. Um I think uh staff, we’ve read stories um that A I will replace workers but have no idea what to do with, you know, where, where that fear sits with them too. Um It should just add to their work and not replace them. And I think a lot of we’re seeing uh you know, I’m, I um am on tiktok and so, you know, that’s a whole other like bag of algorithms and like, you know, things that we can dissect and pull apart. But I do, there are a lot of stories of, you know, there are folks getting laid off left and right. And um I, I would have to, you know, that begs the question why generally, but also like, what is the role of A I in all of this too? Um I think it’s really interesting when layoffs happen at a time when A I is accelerating um in a lot of our worlds, whether it’s in tech and whether it’s in other sectors across the world. And I think that there is a lot to be done by organizations who don’t fall prey to like the siren song of like A I and are going into a clear minded and not saying, oh, well, we can cut out this department and put it in, put, um, you know, this learning module in or this, you know, I think that’s, that’s really where, um, you’re going to see a lot of organizations and commu, um, organizations and companies thrive as opposed to just, um, laying folks off a lot there. No, we’re, yeah, we’re, we’re taking it in. Yeah. No. And, and the reality is that I admire the, the consistency between you and Amy. Uh, and, and, and, and, and generally, I mean, I made fun of you, but what it shows is you’re all thinking the same way. You know, you’ve all got the, uh, the same concern for the nonprofit Human first, human first. You know, like we’re all humans and we’re all prioritizing um us as humans and if we start prioritizing other things and it’s not going to, um, go well, well, but at end to end, you’re, you’re walking the walking the talk. So, and consistently Amy, you want to check us out with, uh, all of us are in this life together. Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing I, I want folks to leave with is that, that future is not predetermined. We, we are not sitting down and saying, well, ok, like I’ll wait for my assigned robot to come tell me what to do, right? It, it is still up for all of us to write that every day. And the people who most need to have their sentence at the start of the article or whatever, you know, at the start of the book are the folks who are being told in a lot of different systemic media type ways that they do not get to have their sentence in the article, you know. And so I, I hope that nonprofits know this is both an opportunity to shape and influence as A I tools are being developed to shape and influence the tools that we build within our sector for ourselves with our communities. But it’s also a responsibility for nonprofits who are the ones often closest to and most trusted by those systemically marginalized communities who are experiencing the most real time harm to be the supporter that brings them into that work. They are not necessarily going to get tapped by uh a company to learn this or do whatever. Even though I hear Justin saying these, these, you know, opportunities are, are free and accessible. You as a nonprofit can say, we think we might build something. Can you be in our design committee? Can you work with us? We’ll make sure that we all learn together, right? As an organization, they’re already in relationship with they, they’ve, you know, maybe benefited from programs or services. You have the responsibility and incredible opportunity to be the conduit for so many communities to enter this, this quote unquote A I world. And that’s a really important I think gift uh you know that we have as a sector to, to be the ones helping make sure so much, so much more of the world is part of developing these tools and designing them to be accountable to us as people, their Amy Sample ward. Our technology contributor here at nonprofit radio and the CEO of N 10. Also Tristan Penn Equity and Accountability director at N 10 and Justin Spell Haug, new corporate vice president and Global head at uh Technology for Social Impact at Microsoft. My thanks to each of you. Thank you very much. Real pleasure. Thanks so much, Tony. Thanks Justin. I’ll see you in 20 ft. Thanks so much, Tony. Next week, the generational divide now, this is interesting uh because uh we’ve been promising this for a couple of weeks now and it hasn’t materialized. It’s very relieving to have someone, an associate producer who I can blame for this show having been promised the generational divide, having been promised for weeks on end and not coming through even though it doesn’t matter that the associate producer, Kate has nothing to do with booking the guests that the host takes care of that himself. That that’s irrelevant. I blame the associate producer and this, this show, the generational divide had better come through next week or there’s gonna be a shake up. I’m the one who just reads the script to either. Oh, yeah. Minimize the uh OK. Your title is not script reader it’s associate producer. Well, if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you look, I was slow on my cue. There I beseech you find it at Tony martignetti.com were sponsored by donor box. Outdated donation forms blocking your support, generosity. Donor box. Fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit donor box.org. And by virtuous, virtuous gives you the nonprofit CRM fundraising volunteer and marketing tools. You need to create more responsive donor experiences and grow. Giving, virtuous.org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your associate producer, Kate Martinetti. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that information, Scotty. You’re with us next week for nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Special Episode: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

My Guest:

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld

The willingness and skills of people of color aren’t represented in leadership circles. That’s the main message coming out of Building Movement Project’s report, “Race To Lead Revisited.” We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMP’s co-director, Sean Thomas-Breitfeld.


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[00:01:48.24] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. This is a special episode of non profit radio to help you be the change around racism, people of color underrepresented in non profit leadership. That’s the main message coming out of building movement projects Report. Race to Lead Revisited We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMPs co director Sean Thomas Brett felled, responsive by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot CEO and by dot drives, raise more money, changed more lives for a free demo and free month. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show. Sean Thomas Bright Felled. He is co director at the Building Moving Building Movement Project. He previously worked in various roles at community change, developing training programs for grassroots leaders and worked in the communications and policy departments where he coordinated online and grassroots advocacy efforts and lobbied on a range of issues including immigration reform, transportation, equity and anti poverty programs. Building movement project is at building movement, or GE, and at B L. D. I N G movement. John Thomas Bright felt Welcome to non profit radio

[00:01:51.64] spk_0:
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:53.33] spk_1:
It’s supposed

[00:01:53.87] spk_0:
to be here with you.

[00:01:54.83] spk_1:
It’s good. It’s a pleasure. Thank you. So why don’t you start by describing the work at Building Movement Project?

[00:02:02.44] spk_0:
Sure, so building movement projects been around for over 20 years, and from our founding we’ve had three main areas of focus. One is what we call movement building, looking at how organizations collaborate, how nonprofit organizations can be part of movements for social change and social justice, and what it takes for organizations and non profit leaders to really be on the forefront of making big leading some big structural changes in our society. We’ve also looked at what we call a non profits and social change or service and social change because we think there is a particular role for human service organizations in bringing about structural and systemic change in our society and that that’s really important to support on. Also encourage organizations like that to get involved in advocacy. Listen to an uplift, the voice and on power of the communities that are being served, and then the third bucket of work has always focused on leadership, so recognizing that leading a nonprofit organization is a very hard job we’ve always looked at What does it take for leaders? But also, what does it take for non profit leadership? Thio really have aligned both the practices of leadership with the values that organizations hold. And so over the last several years, we’ve been particularly focused on issues of race and leadership in non profit organization. That’s what the race to lead work comes out of.

[00:03:41.14] spk_1:
Okay, right? And the This race to lead revisited report is really comparing a 2016 survey for the original race to lead with a 2019 survey for this report. Exactly.

[00:04:04.84] spk_0:
Yeah, so we surveyed people working in the nonprofit sector both in 2016 and 2019 on these issues of race and leadership. So this report race to lead revisited at some comparisons between the findings from 2016 and 2019 to see how the sector’s been evolving

[00:04:55.34] spk_1:
and you did have some new questions as well. We’ll have time to get to some of those, um, you talk about Well, first I got to say, I realize the contrast here I have long white hair and you have short, dark hair. We are. We know in the hair. We are. We’re not similar in hair. My God. Uh, yeah, OK, Sorry I couldn’t help notice. Um, you talk about we’re gonna have fun on non profit radio. I mean, it’s a serious subject, but we have fun nonetheless. So you talk about white advantage in the report versus white privilege? You mentioned white privilege once or twice, but predominantly. Talk about white advantage. What’s the What’s the difference there? What? What? What are you trying to say? A little different than the the more seems more common, you know, white privilege.

[00:05:05.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So what’s the term white advantage? What we’re trying to focus on is some of the structural advantages that accrue to non profit organizations based on, you know, multiple people in positions of power being white. So particularly thinking about the composition of boards and the composition of senior leadership teams. Um, because, you know, I think oftentimes the analysis is very individualistic, right? So, like, there’s an individual white person in the executive director role of the organization that only paints part of the picture on DSO we wanted to have a more complicated and nuanced analysis of what’s actually happened. An organization s O, that it became less about, like, the it one person at the top of organizational hierarchy. And think about it, uh, in a way that encompasses both the board leadership and senior staff.

[00:06:04.44] spk_1:
Okay. And then the structures as well, it seems thio less focused on an individual or individuals and mawr, uh, levers of power and processes policies.

[00:06:27.04] spk_0:
Exactly. And it also became a way thio understand and sort of unpack. Um, how, uh, sort of whiteness of organizations that, like in our sample, right, like, 45% of respondents work for organizations where both more than 75% of the board is white and more than 75% of staff and top leadership are white on. And, you know, I think that for me, that was actually somewhat startling in surprising um, And then we also saw that those organizations tend to have bigger budgets at least was being reported by the staff. Um but then, at the same time, we’re seeing that staff were reporting more negative experiences in those types of organizations compared to organizations with more diverse leadership on both the board and senior staff levels.

[00:07:29.64] spk_1:
And so the overall message that I got from this is that the power remains in boards and at the sea levels of nonprofits, and those are predominantly white. And that and that that really hasn’t changed from 2016 to 2019.

[00:07:35.24] spk_0:
Yeah, that hasn’t well, it’s hard to know because we actually didn’t ask the question in this way back in 2016. But I think that this, um, sort of puts our data in the context of some of the research that board source has done that shows that boards are overwhelmingly the majority of non profit boards are overwhelmingly white

[00:07:59.14] spk_1:
and also not reflecting the communities that they’re serving. Absolutely. Yeah,

[00:08:01.54] spk_0:
yeah, because I think what has happened is that the function of non profit boards very often is less a function of accountability to the organization’s constituency and mission on, because organizations often have a lot of responsibility for fundraising and raising the resource is for the organization to do its work. Um, that as a result of that sort of demand, organizations often have, um, prioritized recruiting from people who holds wealth in their communities and because of racial wealth gaps that tend to be white people

[00:08:41.04] spk_1:
on dhe. That’s recruiting for both leadership and volunteer position board with talking about boards and you make it very clear we’re talking about boards as well as C suite. You know, CEO, executive director level.

[00:08:54.14] spk_0:

[00:08:56.24] spk_1:
So let’s go into the three. I guess main conclusions that the report identifies first one is that things really haven’t changed that much. We’ve already alluded to it. Things haven’t changed that much in the three years.

[00:09:14.44] spk_0:
Yeah, and you know, I’m not sure how surprising that should be. Um, for our sector. You know, I think the change is often particularly in organizations. When we’re talking about organizations where we’re talking about the composition of the staff, that kind of change is incremental, right? I think that what has shifted is that, particularly in the last year is much more consciousness raising much more awareness on the part of organizations that these imbalances, these inequities exist and needs to be addressed. Um, but recognizing that there is a problem is not the same thing is taking action to address the problem.

[00:10:18.34] spk_1:
So you are seeing mawr alright, consciousness raising awareness. It seems like predominantly because of the diversity equity and inclusion work that Ah lot of organizations have done. But it’s just sort of, you know, I’m I gleaned from the reports, just sort of scratching the surface. I mean, ah, lot of it is trainings that raise awareness, but we’re not seeing much action flowing from that consciousness raising.

[00:10:23.84] spk_0:
Yeah, And so one example of the increased consciousness was that in both 2016 and 2019 we asked survey respondents what impact to their race had had on their career advancement. And, uh, for white respondents back in 2016 roughly half indicated that their race. They recognize that the race had a positive impact on their career advancement. So this sort of classic recognition of white privilege that increased to two thirds of the white sample in 29 so one from half to two thirds. So you know that is e think progress, right? In terms of like people having a recognition and understanding that white privileges riel and that it’s positively the benefits of that privilege are accruing to white people in nonprofit organization. Um however, the same question also revealed that back in 2016 a third roughly of people of color felt that their own race have negatively impacted their career advancement, and that then increased almost basically half off the sample of people of color in 2019. So the increased consciousness is both, you know, I think leading people to recognize the ways that they have been disadvantaged as well as for white people the way that they have been advantaged on DSO. You know, we’re still left with this challenge. This problem. That race is clearly having an impact on people’s advancement. And so it needs to be addressed in organizations in ways that I don’t think training is sufficient. Thio thick

[00:12:04.14] spk_1:
right? But you acknowledge consciousness, raising an awareness that that is the first step. But we have a lot more, a lot, a lot further to go. I mean, you know, it’s just

[00:12:14.61] spk_0:

[00:12:50.24] spk_1:
widely recognized that, you know, you don’t just do trainings a couple of trainings over six months and then check your box. You know d e. I is covered. Let’s move on, Thio. Let’s move on to the gala. You know it za process. It’s a journey, you know we’ve had other guests say the same thing. It takes time. Thio, uh, change the policies, the practices, the traditions Even if they’re not written down, that our advantage ing white folks over people of color, This takes time. But you gotta You’ve got to start somewhere.

[00:12:52.74] spk_0:
Yes, and I think consciousness raising is is an important and legitimate starting point.

[00:13:42.54] spk_1:
Right? And we’re just getting started, okay? It’s time for a break. Turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know this turn to is led by former journalists. So you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships, they’re gonna help you when you want to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners was an editor of the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know the non profit space they’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to P. O. C. Underrepresented in non profit leadership. Are you going to do this in three years again?

[00:13:45.94] spk_0:
It’s a very good question. You know, it’s hard

[00:13:48.15] spk_1:

[00:13:48.28] spk_0:
know, uh, in terms of, like, capacity funding, all of those things um, but yeah, I think that it seems worthwhile to keep revisiting thes issues, given the pace of change. Um, having been pretty slow just in the time that we’ve been collecting this data.

[00:14:24.14] spk_1:
All right, Um, anything else you want to say about you know, how the the findings from 2016 are pretty similar? Uh, yeah. Continue through to 2019 before we go on to the next. Well,

[00:14:24.49] spk_0:
sure. I think the reason that we felt like it was worth restating on pointing out the similarity in in terms of the findings between 2016 and 2019 was because, um, you know, from our perspective, it was really important to state very clearly to the sector. But there are people of color who are in the pipeline that the pipeline is not necessarily the problem. Uh, there’s, I think, different metaphors that people have used unpack and try to understand what the problem is of why we’re not seeing more representative leadership at the top levels of nonprofit organizations. And our view has just been that it’s not a pipeline issue per se. There are people of color who have the skills training credentials to be in those top roles, but they face racialized barriers to actually moving into those top jobs to being hired for those top jobs. And so we just felt like it was important to remind the sector of that finding, Um and sort of not lapse back into, ah narrative that, like we need to train more people of color because somehow people of color are not ready toe lead. People of color are ready to lead, but are often too often not given the opportunity.

[00:15:38.84] spk_1:
Not only have the skill sets already, but are willing to, in fact, what willing Thio want. Thio want to advance the leadership in greater numbers than the and the white respondents?

[00:15:51.94] spk_0:

[00:15:53.03] spk_1:
E guess. There’s narrative that, you know there’s a lack of interest in in people of color advancing toe leadership. But you’ve dashed that.

[00:16:01.74] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that part of the reason that’s important is because if people hold this mental model that who wants to be a leader is, uh, not a person of color, then they’re going to ignore the leadership potential of people of color in their organization.

[00:16:26.64] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s very convenient. Well, you know, the folks of color don’t really aspire to leadership. So no need to consider them. So Okay, so you’ve you’ve dashed that it’s not so in two respects. It’s not a pipeline issue. The skills air there and the willingness Is there a ZX? Well,

[00:16:36.24] spk_0:

[00:16:42.44] spk_1:
desire Thio advance and to lead. Okay, Um right. So remember your second main main conclusion, I guess, is there is white advantage. We were talking around it. Now we come right out and say there is white advantage in the nonprofit sector.

[00:18:59.24] spk_0:
There is. And, um, you know, I think that the the white advantage takes multiple forms, right? So I think that there have been over the last several months Mawr written about like, what happened? What’s called now? Philanthropic redlining, right, that organizations that are led by people of color, particularly black led organizations, are don’t get access to the same kind of resource is as the white led organizations focused on or serving in communities of color. And so there’s really interesting research both from organizations like Abssi A ZX, well as echoing green and bridge span that really dug into that funding disadvantage. And I think that our data also showed similar findings, particularly when it comes to, for instance, e. D s of color. And this was reported on Maurin a report from based on the 2016 data but E d s of color feeling like they don’t have, they don’t get grants of comparable size to peer organization or that they don’t have access Thio relationships with funders. And so those kinds of advantages in terms of like, who funders trust who funders will give bigger grants thio all of those benefits than accrue to white led organizations that then create this financial gap between organizations, nonprofit organizations based on who’s in positions of power in that institution. And so other ways that the white advantage showed up were in terms of the sort of composition of organizations and the greater comfort that white people, uh, seem tohave in. Those organizations, for instance, on questions like Do people feel like they have a voice in their organization for people working in white, dominant organizations were both the board and senior staff are more than 75% white. That’s where we saw the biggest gaps between people of color and whites in terms of their their agreement with that statement, right? And that gap decreases as you have mawr diverse organizations. And it’s also interesting to note that the average the mean increases. So both people of color and white respondents are more likely to say they have a. They have a voice in their organizations when they work for POC lead groups. So if you know, funders want to invest in organizations that are cultivating that kind of leader full ecosystem inside of their organization that, you know, make it possible for staff to feel like they have a voice and can help to set the direction for the organization, then you know foundations would be wise to really take a hard look at their own investment and the composition of organizations that they’ve been funding on. DSI. You know, like, are these organizations largely white run or are they POC lead on. And if there are largely white one, they should start investing in more organizations that are POC ledge.

[00:20:06.94] spk_1:
You identify five opportunities which we’ll get to, and one of those is put your money where your mouth is. You just say, put your, uh, you

[00:20:08.83] spk_0:
know, money

[00:20:54.04] spk_1:
where mouth is for sure. Yeah, I mean that’s a critical lever of power is funding for any anyone, whether it’s whether it’s corporate or non profit access to capital access to markets. Um, you know, what I thought was really interesting is, um, when you were identifying whether an organization was white lead or POC lead you, you chose as a threshold for white lead, whether more than 75% whether the Board of Leadership is more than 75% white. But then for for people of color lead, the threshold was just 50%. Is that because there just aren’t enough that are that are at the 75% level? So you had to reduce the yet to reduce the threshold to define it as person of color lead? Was that the reason?

[00:21:02.45] spk_0:
Yes. I mean, I think that it reflects the sort of composition of the sector, right. So 45% of respondents reported working for organizations where more than 75% of the board and senior staff were white on then it only 14% of respondents reporting working for organizations where it was over 50% of board and senior staff where people of color, you know, like it’s

[00:21:30.25] spk_1:
hard to have

[00:21:30.98] spk_0:
a comparison between Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:34.02] spk_1:
75% shoulder, 75% for PFC. Lead was gonna be too small a sample You

[00:21:40.57] spk_0:

[00:21:41.99] spk_1:
handful of Okay, uh, e suspected. Okay. Um, yeah. The experience was a little more about the experience. How people experience how people of color experience work in a in a white led organization.

[00:21:58.84] spk_0:
Well, I have to say, this was surprised, Not surprising. But it was interesting that the data was so clear, um, that the these racial gaps were so much larger for respondents working for white run organizations compared toa the POC led groups. And, um, you know, I think that it reflects what we’ve been hearing from the focus groups that we’ve been doing across the country in terms of the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color working in organizations that, um, you know, I think often feel somewhat alienating. And where people feel like they, um their leadership potential is not recognized or supported on dso. It was just a really, uh it was nice to have the data show, uh, and really reflect what we’ve been hearing anecdotally through focus groups and interviews around the country,

[00:22:59.54] spk_1:
You mentioned three organizations that have contributed to this work. One of them was bridge span. And then what were the other to save them. Save them a little slower theater, too.

[00:23:03.21] spk_0:
Sure. So a few months ago, bridge span and echoing green partnered on a report that looked at the going echoing green,

[00:23:14.57] spk_1:
echoing green

[00:24:50.44] spk_0:
green. Yeah, they partnered toe look at the funding that had accrued to organization organizational leaders who had gone through echoing Green’s programs. And so they were able to then really track and demonstrate that black leaders compared toa white leaders who had gone through the same kind of leadership development programs were getting very different levels of financial support on So that report came out at, you know, the earlier in the spring and last winter, an organization called Absi, which is the Organization for African Americans in philanthropy. On DSO, the acronym is a B E, and they put out a report looking at what they call the philanthropic redlining, this phenomenon of financial support from foundations accruing to white led organizations rather than to POC lead or black led organizations. So they use this terminology of redlining because it’s evocative of historical policy that led to very dramatic differences in terms of what sort of development and investment was possible, uh, in cities and neighborhoods based on this policy of redlining. And their point is that the imbalances, the inequities and where philanthropic dollars flow leads toa completely different prospects for organizations. And because some organizations grow because they get the funding and other organizations sort of. Whether on the bun

[00:25:06.34] spk_1:
isn’t the large majority of the smaller organizations I think you’re special was under a million dollars aren’t Isn’t the majority of those POC lead?

[00:25:08.44] spk_0:
It was, Yeah, it was striking to see that a much larger share of POC led organizations had budgets under a million

[00:25:30.34] spk_1:
dollars compared to, for instance, what led organizations? And, ah, large, large majority of those are a million dollars or under in funding or annual budget.

[00:25:31.18] spk_0:
Yes, okay, yeah, in terms of the annual budget

[00:26:27.24] spk_1:
annual budget. Okay, time for our last break. Dot drives drives engagement dot drives relationships. Dot drives walks you through donor engagement. It’s a tool that’s simple, affordable and focuses you on building donor relationships and trust. There’s a free demo, and for listeners a free first month. Go to the listener landing page at tony dot Emma slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for POC, underrepresented in non profit leadership. And then the third main point is that d I. Efforts are widespread, you say, and their effectiveness is uncertain, I would say, but but their effectiveness is uncertain. You’re a little more optimistic. Um, so, yeah, we were scratching the surface of this before, but you know, say same or about what’s being done, but what the limitations of it are.

[00:26:35.74] spk_0:
Well, first off, I think it’s important to acknowledge that three quarters of the sample reported that their organizations were doing something related to diversity equity inclusion. And so the ubiquity of D I efforts is, you know, I think good. And I think it’s a relatively new phenomenon, right? Like it’s become the topic at a lot of conferences over the past five years. And so all of which is to say that like organizations are getting started right now, Um, and maybe it’s long overdue, but this is a moment when organizations are getting started. I think that the challenge, the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color. And the younger staff of, you know, diverse diversity of younger staff is that I think for far too often it feels like organizational checklist. It feels like a sort of double. Organizations are saying the right things, but not actually changing anything about their recruitment practices or internal hiring and promotion strategy. So, yeah, I think that that is the the frustrating in that, like the ubiquity does not equal impact.

[00:28:43.94] spk_1:
I just want to remind listeners the report is called Race to Lead Revisited and you can get it at building movement dot or ge. All right, Sean, how do you feel about talking? Oh, there’s there’s a quote. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You You pepper the report with quotes in the margin on Dhe there. Ah, lot of them struck me that. I’m just going to read one that was probably half a dozen or so that, you know, sort of stopped me a little bit. But, uh, Pakistani woman, I don’t believe I’m taking us seriously in the workplace because I am a young woman of color. I often question things which doesn’t always go over well in majority white organizations. I’ve been used as a token brown person that za harsh reality Thio Thio read and for her to admit in a survey that, you know, I’m a token. Um So I thought the quotes were very evocative.

[00:28:55.84] spk_0:
Well, yeah, thanks. I mean, we we really think it’s important to balance the quantitative data with, you know, hundreds upon hundreds of right and responses from survey respondents and then also the focus groups that we do. We also gain a ton of insights from those conversations as well.

[00:29:16.34] spk_1:
You feel OK, go into the five opportunities or is there Is there mawr anything more you wanna bring out about the the report itself? Well, this is part of the report, but about the conclusions, conclusions and findings.

[00:29:40.34] spk_0:
Well, I guess I would just add in terms of the sort of d I and, uh, there’s the both the skepticism, but also the impact, right? I think that, um, there’s, you know, I think there’s a lot of skepticism about training, often times. But our data did show that for reserving respondents that reported that their organization trained on a variety of topics. They had more positive views on the impact of training on their organization. I think that just speaks to the importance and need for organizations have, like, multifaceted well around D. I initiatives so that training is not again, like just the check box on or sort of like. Okay, we did the training on white privilege, and so we’re sort of done that the training is a way of both sparking but also sustaining critical conversations in organizations. And that’s why it’s useful for organizations to do training repeatedly and on a variety of topics.

[00:30:59.64] spk_1:
Yeah, I think it was. It was forearm. Or if organizations had had training on four or more topics than both white, the white respondents and the people, people of color respondents, um, felt it was it was more advantageous. So they got there was more valuable training than if it was three or fewer. Could you just take off a couple of different topics that that folks should be looking to training? I mean, not not exhaustive, but you know, what are some of the some of the topics that people should be thinking about training wise?

[00:31:07.27] spk_0:
Sure, yeah. So eso in terms of the topics that we tested for in the survey people indicated that whether the organization had done training on white privileged, specifically whether they had done training on implicit bias because that is a concept that I think has gained mawr currency in the sector. Structural racism, for instance. Um, like do people think of racism as just about interpersonal dynamics or as or as the result of structural, um, and systemic forces that are being replicated by policy? A. ZX well, as implicitly, um, also racial trauma and healing. I think it’s a training topic that is becoming more popular and developed, so there’s a variety of topics, and I think the important thing is just for organizations to be open to having and doing training on a wide variety of topics.

[00:32:07.74] spk_1:
And again, the more topics, the more valuable people will feel. Three outcomes are, um So let’s go to the opportunities. Then why don’t you once you start us off?

[00:32:19.04] spk_0:

[00:32:20.17] spk_1:
I’m sure. Wait. I put you on the spot. Do you know that you may not have him off the top of your head? I have notes I haven’t written down, so I don’t need thio Put you on the spot memorized? I don’t know do you?

[00:32:32.07] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve got it.

[00:32:33.81] spk_1:
Okay. Okay.

[00:32:47.44] spk_0:
First in the first one was focused on structures as well as the experiences of staff. Right on DSO. You know, I think it’s pretty straightforward, but I think the the reason that we felt felt like it was really important toe lift up lived experience of staff working in organizations is because of what we saw in terms of those experience questions, right? Like, do people feel they have a voice in their organizations or not? Right. We also thought it was important to point out that policies have to actually be in force, right? Like organizations can’t just say this is our policy. But if people don’t see evidence that actual behavior and practices air changing as a result of the policy, um, then you know, I think there are real questions about whether that has real impact.

[00:33:22.08] spk_1:
There is, as

[00:33:23.32] spk_0:
we said earlier,

[00:33:35.84] spk_1:
you’re not walking the talk. Then if you have ah, policy on anti discrimination and someone says something derogatory and it doesn’t get dealt with according to the policy. Yeah, that’s a joke. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:33:39.94] spk_0:
Um, we also thought it was important toe, you know, really, focus on the funding dynamics, so particularly for grantmaking organizations. But put your money where, like your mouth is essentially right. Like there are increasing number of foundations, that air saying that the I is important. Ah, nde sort of signaling to their grantees. But those organizations need to take d. I seriously need to diversify their boards and staff things like that. But if the foundations have not taken similar steps, if the foundations have not to diversify their own or internal institution, or the foundations have not sort of critically examined their portfolio of grants like are there racial disparities in terms of what the amounts of funding, which organizations get access to funding that sort of thing? All of that is about foundations being very serious on reflect about being reflective in terms of their own commitments to D. I.

[00:35:24.04] spk_1:
And you have reflecting reflecting your community, which we touched on a little bit, that that was really striking, how you know it’s intuitive. I mean, I realized it, but to see the numbers of, um, Whitelighter organizations that are serving POC communities, eyes like two thirds or something, I think, um, it’s startling that leadership does not reflect the communities that they’re serving, and that includes the board. I mean, you you wanna have voices from the from the folks you’re serving contributing to your contributing to your you’re you’re major decisions a ZX the board should be doing

[00:35:28.54] spk_0:
Yeah, and again, like, as I said earlier, like, if organizations see the function of the board as about accountability as about setting the direction for the organization, then I think those organizations will see the need and value of having a board that is reflective of the community that’s being served. But if organizations have the sort of rationale for maintaining the board is to have access to people with wealth and connections, and there’s obvious reasons that organizations go that route. Then they’re going to stack. They’re bored with wealthy people in their communities on again because of racism. Those wealthy people are not likely to be people of color from the constituency that’s being served

[00:36:15.53] spk_1:
and your last one responsibility and results.

[00:36:26.79] spk_0:
Yeah, I think our sense was that organizations air pushed to track a lot of things nowadays and so, like what gets measured is often what then matters. And so our sense was that organizations should be very clear about what their commitments are going to be to race equity. And, um, you know, really track those commitments and then track the results of that come out of, like, what kind of organizational change strategies they pursue. And so, you know, if organizations they’re doing like an annual review or annual reports, are they reporting on their goals and objectives around race equity? That is one way to sort of ensure that organizations are staying on track on dhe, that its multiyear commitment

[00:37:13.58] spk_1:
it’s gonna take

[00:37:14.84] spk_0:
multiple years of change.

[00:37:38.03] spk_1:
Uh, you know, just pay attention. You can move the needle on things. If you start paying attention to them, you’re saying, if you measure it, you’ll you’ll you’ll be. You’ll be accountable to it. So high attention to it. If your If your statements say that you value racial equity, then measure it, hold yourself accountable and commit to those years of change.

[00:37:41.23] spk_0:
Yeah, and I think it’s even better if organizations do that. Make that accountability public, eso that they’re the sort of reporting is to their staff. It’s to their board. It’s to their community so that, like the statements of the organizations stand with. For instance, black lives matter, then backed up with organizations being able to say. And here’s how we lived into that commitment. Here are the things that we did over the past year that made that riel,

[00:38:10.82] spk_1:
Sean, anything, anything at all that we didn’t cover that you want to talk about.

[00:38:16.52] spk_0:
Um, no, I think we covered a lot.

[00:38:34.22] spk_1:
Okay, well, we did. You know, it’s not profit radio. We cover a lot of ground, but, you know, we can only scratch the surface. I mean, we cover a lot, but what you want to read the details, So just get the damn thing. Uh, the report again is, um race toe lead racing. No race race, the lead race, the lead be visiting

[00:38:38.27] spk_0:
the lead revisited.

[00:38:49.92] spk_1:
Used to lead you visited. You’ll find it at building movement or GE. That’s where you’ll find building movement project. And Sean Thomas Bright felled. Who is co director, right, Sean, Thank you very much. Thank you.

[00:38:52.07] spk_0:
Thanks so much for having me

[00:39:32.72] spk_1:
absolutely appreciate your time. Thank you. Reminder were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot Emma slash dot for a free demo and a free month, Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy. This music is by Scott Stein and with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for September 28, 2018: How Foundations Make Decisions: Data Matters

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Grace Sato & Nicole Lee: How Foundations Make Decisions: Data Matters
It’s our final show in Foundation Center Month! Looking at their annual report, “Measuring the State of Disaster Philanthropy,” Foundation Center‘s Grace Sato explains the research her team creates and how foundations use data to make smart funding decisions. Nicole Lee from United Airlines shares how her company does disaster philanthropy.






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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent from your aptly named host. We’re live from the foundation center in new york city. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with a stick. I assis if i saw that you double down on the idea that you missed today’s show how foundations make decisions, data matters it’s our final show in foundation center month. Looking at their annual report measuring the state of disaster philanthropy, foundation centers, grace sato explains the research her team creates and how foundations used data to make smart funding decisions. Nicolay, from united airlines shares how her company does disaster philanthropy dahna welcome our studio audience thank you very much for coming out. Welcome to our youtube audience, which sold out. I hope you, uh well, there’s, nobody on who would have been locked out because that you wouldn’t be here, but you may have come back, so i’m sorry if you got inconvenienced if you were locked out, we had so many subscribers we had to raise the cap, but i’m glad you’re with us so many youtubers, thanks so much for being with us on tony state, too, i want you to stay with the show, responsive by pursuing full service. Fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p wagner, sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com bye, tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine youtubers want you to send us your questions. You could put him in the comments. We have somebody watch etching that stream, so by all means, you’re a part of the audience, sending your questions youtubers, and we will get to you. Same thing with our studio audience will be taking questions here, too. Very glad to welcome our guests. Grace sato is a knowledge services manager at the foundation center. She analyzes data to describe trends and priorities in philanthropy. She’s worked in a in the nonprofit sector from more than fifteen years before researcher she was a social worker in children and family services. Greece is seated right next to me. Nicolay is senior manager of corporate and community affairs for united airlines in chicago, illinois. She’s accountable for marketing, communications and storytelling for the group customer facing charitable initiatives and humanitarian aid and disaster response, she’s worked in corporate social responsibility also for more than fifteen years. I want to welcome phil it’s, our friend here, phil. Philanthropy he’s been getting shot out. Uh, people have been wondering what’s that bear in the audience who said, you know the bear phil is no longer in the tardis on stage with us feel standing here sitting here. I don’t know if you can see he’s got a foundation center cap on. I’m no few tubers. You can make that out. But foundation center kapin join me in welcoming philanthropy and grace and nicole, thanks so much for being with us. Great. So we’ll start with you. Oh yeah, knowledge services manager, what kind of knowledge are you accumulating ? We are accumulating knowledge about institutional philanthropy and so no non-profits are often familiar with foundation center because of the grants data, and they’re looking at it to identify potential thunders for the areas of work and internally. We’re also looking at that data to talk about trends in the field of philanthropy, and we’re able to analyze that data in lots of different ways, according teo, whatever the research question might be. And so today we’re talking about disaster philanthropy, but it’s a whole new range of issue areas and some of the things that i’ve worked on or i’m working on this year, you know, it could be funding for dance in the chicago area to funding for latin and central america funding for young men of color. So you know, whatever questions people might have about what philanthropy is doing in a certain area, we’re able to look at our data to talk about is it foundations that come to you and ask you these specifics, like what’s the state of funding dance in chicago, it often can be the knowledge. Tools that we create tend to be funded nowhere non-profit just like others. And so the way we operate based on contracts and grants and so it’s, often foundations that are funding us to do research in a specific area. Okay, andi, is it also initiatives on your own ? Yeah. We used to create these publications on key facts on philanthropy, and we’re going to go back to doing an annual report, like giving us. Yeah. And we do provide data to giving us for for their sort of peace of the philanthropy data. So, yeah, we do some of that. And we do. You know, if there are specific issue areas, maybe not even related to the grants data, but we might do special work on topics that are of interest at the time on dh. Then how is this fed back to ? I mean, i could see if it’s a if it’s a specific foundation or consortium asking and obviously that their privy to the data. How about for the wider community ? How did they access ? Yeah, i mean, let’s say that ninety percent i don’t know. It’s. Just if wait, what we create funded by philanthropy is available to the public so it becomes public knowledge that anyone can access and especially when we’re, you know, posting reports online or we’re creating these websites that people can go to it’s often a non-profit audience that’s coming to use these two okay, is there one specific site people can go to to see all the yeah available research way have it like a research collection on issue lad, i think it’s called knowledge services that foundation center that or always bet up during the break to see if that’s actually correct, but so there is a collection of all of our research report you can go on our web site foundations under not or to see what other like online tools we have a deal okay on, is it ? Is it just us philanthropy that you’re that you’re measuring or global is well now disaster report is global on yeah, we’re getting a lot more global data like foundation center used to be very us focused, but we have a lot of partnerships with other organisations where we’re getting a lot more non us donordigital dahna and so increasingly what we’re able to analyse isn’t just about us. And so the disaster philanthropy work that we’re doing, we’ve done this annual report in partnership with the center for disaster philanthropy for fight. This will be our fifth year, but this is our first year in that time to actually say let’s, just look at the whole universe offending, not just limited to us foundations, okay, donors as well as recipients, of course international as well, okay, buy-in bonem so we moved to the disaster philanthropy area, you’re so this is an annual you’ve done this, what, like, three or four years in a row now ? Okay, um, and you’re covering not only natural disasters, but man made humanitarian christians as well movement of people, refugees, yeah, and that’s, the kind of work were able to do in partnership because we’re sort of the experts on the data that are our funding partners or partners, whoever they might be, are they experts in the issues that we’re analyzing ? And so when we first began working with the center for disaster philanthropy, one of the first things we did was build this advisory committee to talk about, like, how do we want to look at the data around disasters and so with this expert committee, we have this taxonomy that looks at the different disaster types before this work, we just sort of had a code for disasters that now worry about the distinguished what’s for hurricane versus what’s for a volcano and look at it in a more nuanced way and also specific to this project they were like, we’re not just interested in the type of disaster, but we’re interested in where in the funding cycle are people giving so there’s a lot of giving going towards an immediate response and relief that how can we know what’s being given for a long term recovery, who’s getting for disaster preparedness ? And so when we work in partnership, were able to say, okay, well, this is how we can begin to code the data to look at those kinds of questions. How confident are you ? Of ? Of what ? Uh, what percentage of the data of the last disaster giving you’re able to capture ? Oh, um, that’s a big question. So, like foundation centers, focus is on institutional philanthropy, but there’s a whole lot of giving going out from individuals that were not necessarily capturing, you know, we’re able to see, what is the u s federal government doing through fema data and hard data, but your country’s air giving for deciding things institutional include government ? Yeah, and what we were able to do right now is track us through the they’re sort of measuring what’s given from governments to governments or what’s giving from multilateral institutions. And we’re analyzing that data but there’s a whole world of data that swimming out there and so were we were analyzing what we have access to at the moment. Okay, okay. Let’s. Bring nicole in and we’re gonna talk more about the disaster. Philanthropy report. Cole, uh, um acquaint us with the philanthropy that united airlines does have, does it ? How does it react in this disaster response area ? Well, at united, you know, we pride ourselves and as an airline and preparing for emergencies for aircraft emergency specifically. So we’ve got a lot of experience and skills in those areas and lends itself really well in the immediate aftermath of a natural disaster and really that’s sort of where we have found a sweet spot for ourselves in terms of being able to leverage our assets are network or people on our customers to respond to natural disasters, so really, since since i’ve been with the company about ten years now, i can think back to about two thousand eleven was the first really major major disaster that we responded to is the japan earthquake and tsunami, when the fukushima power plant went down on that impacted some of our people that were out there stationed at the airport, and we had an opportunity to provide assistance, and we look at each situational in isolation of bite-sized so really, what can we do to respond ? How does it impact our operations and our employees and our customers on what’s the best way for us to add value to the situation ? It’s not every night, every disaster that we respond with an aircraft, we have aircraft, and we have the ability to get in where people might not be able to, but in some cases, the real power and value that we add is helping to stand up fund-raising so we’ll run an online fund-raising campaign and provide an incentive for our customers to donate cash. Our disaster partners were well versed enough to understand that the best thing that we can do in disaster situation is to provide as much cash support as we can for the the experts, uh, but all of the humanitarian aid partners that are out there disaster response experts that know what they’re doing, rather than doing code drives and who drives, we understand that’s not a very productive way to respond to this disaster. So we do look at those factors you were able to leverage. The united resource is to come in from chicago. I think you want everybody flights. Thank you for your see the boards. It’s aa years is the thin crust, a deep dish twenty five times a day, right from new york to chicago. Many operas even shout out unearned media for united airlines. Absolutely, absolutely. How do you decide ? You know, as the company let’s make explicit united airlines doesn’t have a foundation, right ? We no longer have a direct information on all of our corporate giving is then through through our department corporate community affairs, we continue to support many non-profits and causes around the world through our department is s o is the response than primarily when it’s, when it impacts united operations, you you have hubs ? Um, is it when it’s one factor that this was one yeah, it’s an important factor may would be lying if i said that it wasn’t absolutely it’s a corporation is a corporation way look at every every situation of itself in the case of the nepal earthquake or the haiti earthquake. So those were two locations we didn’t serve commercially on with haiti. We felt really compelled, given the state of the country that really urgent need for assistance on and we were able to secure an aircraft when we’re the first commercial airline to fly humanitarian flight into port au prince um and that really i think, is a point of pride for me. As a united employees, we focus on doing what’s, right ? And when we can. And when it makes sense for us to do it, we do. On. We ran humanitarian flights until the airport was open for commercial operations. When you say humanitarian flights is that flights that have a dh correct way people toe responders is a matter of fact. Wear passenger airline. But we carry quite a bit of cargo as well, eh ? So whatever we could fit in the bellies of these planes, we we brought water. We brought medical supplies. We brought tents. We brought surgeons. We bought rue, brought search and rescue. We brought experts in clean water. There were a lot of a lot of various volunteer groups that we opened up our aircraft to to bring people in on. And then we were part of the evacuation exercise as well. The military was in charge of the airport at the time, and there were droves of people who were looking to get off the island on. And we flew those people out of port au prince into different places like chicago or new york. Um, scuse me just chicago at the time. Actually getting my time wrong here. But if they needed to get beyond chicago. We took care of that too. Uh, worked really closely with a partners to make sure that individuals had what they needed when they got tio their destinations. If we’re flying them through chicago, we had partners, they’re ready to give them clothes is a lot for a lot of folks. They don’t have anything but the shirts on their backs waiting for their waiting for a way out of the island. Grayson, do you find that local foundations will will help in in some kind of crisis, even if it’s outside there outside their mission, you know, if they’re they’re devoted to funding or use dance of arts or social services or something that’s not related to humanitarian relief directly, but they’ll they’ll they’ll step up anyway. Yeah, i mean, i think when a disaster hits an area, it affects everyone and everything. So even if your focus is like the arts, you’re artists are going to be impacted by that disaster. And so one of the things that are partner of the center for disaster people impacted. Yeah, maybe students might be the homeless, you know, whoever it is you helping during that there’s a. Need there differently than your mission exactly. And it’s, not common tear. A foundation described themselves as a disaster thunder like there aren’t that many that would say that’s what we do, but when a crisis happens, every funder becomes in some way, disaster funder, they’re going to be doing something to address the crisis. And so one of the things we hope is that as we keep talking about it and hasn’t keep bringing data and best practices, fenders will start to think of themselves a little bit differently, so that don’t make choices that will spending decisions that will really make an impact on hoping whatever population there trying to serve. Do you find that ? Not sure how to work this is it foundations relying on ? They must be relying on local partners. How did they ? How did they determine who they’re going to partner with in the midst of a crisis ? Yeah, you can’t have partners set up everywhere, right in the certainly in the country or even in the world. How do you how do they make those decisions ? Who ? The partner with the day of a crisis. The day after a crisis ? Yeah, i mean it could depend on the thunder thunder focuses on a specific region they might have relationships with the non-profits that are working on the ground, but often, if that doesn’t happen in a foundation, wants to give teo kind of a topic that you talked about a couple weeks ago on community philanthropy it’s often the community foundations that are building some kind of response and recovery fund that larger foundations will give. Teo and nicole, you can probably speak more to that, but, um, kind of with the understanding that these communities next she wants your Job yeah, somebody 1 of the job last week too. He was that paul was that guy thought he was set for overviewing and then he botched something. He got all confused. He lost his point. He said, well, i should get what i was thinking. I was going to say so stuart, was that stuart ? Yeah, stuart post. And then so i bailed him out, so he realized he was not teo ugo. So ? So how do you how do you do that ? Nicole, what do you do in a crisis ? You go to community foundations or if it’s international, how do ? You choose the local partners, give often times it’s cash, you said. Sure, so we do, like i said, rely heavily on our on our global partners. But at the same time, we rely on our folks that around the ground, our government affairs and international regulatory point, is your employees s so i can point to a really great example of this with the community foundations is with california wild players. Att the end of last year, beginning of this year, we said, we ran a few fundraisers and really looking to make sure that the dollars are staying local, giving our customers options to provide funding for various different size organizations. We partnered with shasta regional community foundation as well as north coast opportunities. Most recently on really got those recommendations through our community relations staff person, who’s on the ground in san francisco and working through a government affairs folks that are on the ground as well. On let’s see grace’s diving little deeper to the disaster philanthropy report. Now you two met when the report was being released. Is that right ? Yeah. Were you in love with the report ? Really old friends way was about this time last year. Okay, what ? What ? Give us a like a top one or two take aways you know, top points that their people were goingto direct people to the reports. That report is available to you, let’s start with what are a couple of major points. Yeah, right. So it’s, based on kind of the annual analysis that we d’oh called the state of disaster philanthropy and because of the nature of the data that we’re working with, we don’t say we have a complete your set of data until maybe about two years after the fact. So, like this year, we’re releasing a report in november, and that will be about twenty six places to write this twenty seventeen from twenty, fifty ways. Yeah, trusted team. So we’re always a little bit, you know, behind because you just need enough data and the way we are able to get data can take time to collect. Um, but i would say maybe the main takeaway from the work that we’ve been doing is probably really intuitive, but it kind of it gives the analysis to support what one would already imagine to be true, which is that the majority of funding for disasters happens for the immediate response and really effort and there’s not enough funding going towards the mid to long term recovery and there’s not enough funding for preparedness for communities and making communities resilience before and the long term after mid term and long term after yeah, you know, it’s it’s hard the you know, the cameras go away, the next news item comes up on dh people in that region, whether they’re refugees or it’s ah, tsunami, you know, there’s suffering for years, but the attention of the world moves on, yeah, the needs linger. And i think that’s also where, like the local partners, the community foundations are really important because there they’re there to stay, you know, they’re part of that community, and so they’ll be able to see the needs with a long term and i think that’s also why they’re important partners in this work because there, i think, may be able to address and see and feel the sort of longer term impact of these disasters and address them and try to keep attention focused them, i guess, the attention of funders not going to get the attention of media unless it’s the anniversary of the media, likes to come back a year later, the two years later, what’s the progress, et cetera. But in the meantime, funders funder attention needs to be, you know, nicole is united ableto help in the in the mid term and long term after after a disaster ? We are so we are able, teo and i think, you know, having listened to the presentation and of the report last year was really eye opening for us, but really did sort of reinforce what we’ve been experiencing ourselves in terms of seeing the need for more preparedness and resiliency for a very long time. We were way found our our niche really to be in the immediate aftermath and hadn’t really considered what the opportunities were tio continue helping with rebuilding and resiliency, really looking at the other side of that with preparedness. Really, i think, with with hurricane harvey last year, i think it really hit home to us with harvey hitting right in the heart of houston twelve thousand employees there we felt it very acutely with our own families that were living there and our operations being impacted and the communities that we really cared about. So i think post, harvey, we really started to look at what other partnerships we could we can engage in and with partners with our disaster relief partners. What are they doing in terms of preparedness and resiliency ? So it’s looking at are the landscape of our partnerships to see what what it is they’re doing. We really trusted our partners to be the experts, you know we don’t it’s not our business, tio be disaster, philanthropy and disaster response experts. We really look at ourselves is really strong partners to help our help empower and enable our non-profit partners to do what they do best really lean on them. Tio do that. And then, of course, to the extent that it’s it’s cash that e-giving from the from the from the customer campaigns, you know that if that’s to the community foundation, then there’s, you know there’s a contribution to the interment linked arms graceful zsystems yes, it’s going to say and there’s something to be said about this foundation’s being prepared for how well really will respond the next time ? Probably built in the body of experience that way kind of no, we don’t want to do this, we want to do this and having, you know, there’s like a different level of prepared miss four philanthropy to teo themselves be ready for how they will respond to the next disaster. One of the things i heard recently was that for community foundations it’s really important for them to have a mechanism for individuals to give to their friend because after, like, three to four days, the donations were well, peter is like a third comes in the first three to four days, and then the remaining two thirds come within, like two weeks or something. Yeah, very short iss and so often, when community foundations are building this response, recovery funds, they actually need to have that set up as soon as the disaster happens because people will want teo set up in advance so that it could be activated and promoted, and one of the stories was that from the puerto rico. Disaster last year the community foundation didn’t have a mechanism in place, and so it was sort of a cautionary tale for community foundations. Durney is to be ready, and of course, you know them, they had their electric power grid go out, so yeah, but yeah, so there’s a level of preparedness for institutions, um there’s a level of preparedness for individuals and no so quickly people to be ready. But, yeah, the preparedness happens in all sorts of different ways that i could come in on that affecting offer something really quickly just sort of based on everything that happened last year with harvey, irma and maria. Then there was an earthquake in mexico city. More and more, we’re seeing weather events that are severe and needing assistance on what one of the things that came out of that experience last year was really within our company at least coming together with our business continuity, emergency response, human resource is and community of various teams. Teo come up with a playbook. So you talked about preparedness, and we are much better prepared based on learnings from last year, you know, with wanting teo provide as much care for employees and customers as possible. I’m balancing that with the resources that we have what’s realistic. So now we’ve we’ve spent the better part of the last year putting together a playbook that has, frankly just ready menu items that we can deploy and then we’re ready to do. We’re ready to deploy an activate none within, you know, twenty four hours of an incident, but we also have a framework that allows us to evaluate what we want to deploy and this year, in fact, with our fund-raising so i’m glad that you brought that up in terms of the number as well, we do disaster fund-raising campaigns with our customers from this year was the first time that way did a general disaster risk excuse me, disaster relief call out to our customers. We’re looking at florence at the time, and there were about five other severe weather uh, yeah, there was the country there was typhoon man coo out in the pacific, and we actually have a lot of operations out there as well and impacted our customers and our employees were global company teo run separate campaigns for every single one of these was not realistic. And it’s not helpful to our aid partners as well. You know, if we put up a campaign for one incident and then there’s two that come right behind it now, we’ve sort of sucked all the money up out of donations, and these organizations don’t have the flexibility because they accepted money for a specific incident. Eso in really providing the most flexibility tio r a partners to do what they do best general disaster, general disaster campaign that’s running through the end of october right now where we’re offering our customers doing it donate fifty dollars or more bonem smiles thanking them for their contributions because we know really yes, yes, you can earn up to one thousand miles telling e-giving linklater. Yeah, well, can you now have an inn ? Can you give me, like, a double match or something ? So we’ll see what we can get. Three thousand for the for the fifty but wait till the mikes way. Have you have any questions that start with our studio audience ? Any ? I have. Ah, pre prepared. I have candy as an inducement. Teo. Question asking. You will get you get one of these life savers. Can any ? Questions ? Any questions here, anything on our live stream ? The questions. Okay, youtubers, don’t forget. You know i can’t send you candy. I can show it to you. I can tease you with it, but i cannot dole it out. Sorry, but ask your questions. Youtubers, um, and let’s say this seems like a good time. Well, yeah, i do a little business. Ok. Do a little business pursuant. Their newest e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take secrets from the fastest growing corporate startups and apply those methods and good practices to your non-profit work. The resource is free, just like all the pursuit resources are and it’s on the listener landing page, which is that tony dahna slash pursuing with a capital p for please or precise. It could be for pursuing, but use the capital. P ah wagner. Sipa is there’s. No accounting rule on how you account for contributions. Is it a contribution or is it an exchange transaction ? You don’t have to no that’s. The beauty of this wagner has you covered ? You start at wagner cps, dot com and then talk to the partner. Which tomb. And if ? You’re here in the audience, you could talk to him right now because i’m going to raise his hand. There he is, there’s, one of our sponsors. Eat c p a he’s here you can ask him about this new rule and then after you goto wagner, cps dot com or you do it live here, then talk to you about your nine, ninety and your audit wagner, cpas dot com tell us credit card processing, you’ve heard me read the testimonials from non-profits that have referred business is to tell us for credit card process setting those non-profits are getting a long tale of passive revenue because each month fifty percent of the fees from the card processing go to you to your non-profit that’s, that long tail of passive revenue. You’ve heard mimi the testimonials from the businesses that a using tello’s for their credit card processing the way to get started watched the video it’s at listener landing page, tony dahna em a slash tony tello’s. Hoexter give, have you got your phone ? 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You want to stay with non-profit radio ? We’re not going to get the foundation, senator, starting next week, but you can stay with non-profit radio the way to get info on this show every friday the live stream at one o’clock eastern, but of course, it’s a podcast you can listen any time you like at your leisure were to get the info is go to tony martignetti dot com you can sign up for insider alerts you’ll know you’ll get you know who the guests are three through one email or just subscribe just subscribe you do it all at tony martignetti dot com. I hope you’re going to stay with us after we leave the foundation sent it’s been a great place, but the show has to go on and they can host us every single fridays. It’s as asking a bit much uh, we got to send the live listener love so the lifeless there love goes to, of course, our youtube stream on our live audience here. Thank you again, both audiences. Thank you for being with us. The podcast pleasantries that’s, where the vast majority of the audience is over thirteen thousand listeners each week, whatever time, whatever device you’re listening on pleasantries to the podcast audience and the affiliate affections go out to our am and fm affiliates throughout the country. Lots of community radio stations carrying non-profit radio. So grateful to your stations for doing that. And grateful to you for listening on those am and fm stations. Terrestrial radio it’s going nowhere. It’s not going to die. Podcasting is not going to kill am fm radio. It’s not gonna happen. Affections to our affiliate audiences. Okay, back. Teo grayce latto knowledge services manager at the foundation center and the coley senior manager of corporate in community affairs for united airlines. Um, let’s. See where should we go ? What was your what intrigued you about nicole ? About the disaster ? Philanthropy report. What ? What drew you to this ? This whole idea ? First of all, i didn’t actually know it existed. We’ve been out of the foundation game for a little bit, so it wasn’t necessarily paying attention, but so there had been a united foundation in the united uh, we’ve changed over, so we do all the corporate giving, as i said through our department corporate community affairs and what really drew me, tio want to hear about the report was just really to see what the state of disaster philantech e-giving wass i wanted to see what what the rest of the world was doing and to look for opportunities potentially for where united could get involved as well. I think one of the great things that this resource really does is that, well, it exists, which is amazing because, you know, individual companies and foundations can’t do that on their own on dh it’s really, really invaluable information because it reinforces funding decisions. Uh, well, well, we well wasn’t driving funding decisions for us is absolutely reinforced the direction that we were headed. Okay, cool. What else can we so we talked about, um, preparedness, not enough resources devoted to them before, on the mid term and long term after in need of resource is so that’s, so important. Takeaways. What else ? What other what’s ? Another lesson. Weaken. We can draw from state of the last disaster philanthropy as the twenty seventeen report as it existed in twenty fifteen. Um, well, you know, talk a little bit like we do have a report. It’s a static report way also, everything that we do relate it to disaster. Philanthropy is that disaster. Philanthropy dot foundations under dahna or but in addition to the report. We do have, like a website, a web portal sort of where people can actually dig into the data in a way that they’re interested in looking at it. And so one of the things we have is a funding that and it’s visualizing the data that feeds the report so that you can actually see what’s behind it, like, who are the funders giving what you know, what are the size of the grants, whoever e-giving tio, what are the smaller grants that air going out there ? And so, you know, one of the things that foundation center has been doing more of over the last couple of years, it’s not just producing static reports because they get published their true for that moment in time, but there’s so much else that continues to change and things that people are learning and grants data continue to be distributed. And so with something like a mapping platform, you know, we’re behind and sort of the years, but we’re still getting you data. And so that gets pushed onto the platform so people can see what’s the latest that we have at least and with something like an online tool. You can then drill down to see what our partners that you might not have had on your radar that other people are giving to that you might be interested in if you’re trying to get a sense for what’s going on locally in c, you know, some of the smaller organizations that might not get that might not have, like, a national reputation, but they might be doing good work in a specific thinks, you know, red cross first, first there always the largest percentage, but there’s so many organizations doing lots of good work. And so we hope that with these online tools, that will get lift it up a little bit more, and then the other thing is that it highlights the gaps in the funding you know, by seeing where the money is going, you can also see what’s not getting funded as much, and so some of that is related. Teo, you know, the way that week do the work around is asked to plant the people beyond sort of the disaster philantech analysis for any kind of research project that we do, it highlights where funding isn’t going, how it compares with other groups. You know, and so we hope that three that funders will then say, well, i only have this limited amount of dollars to give for this area. So how do i make that count more by giving it to an area that’s not funded as much you’re seeing any shifts you’ve been doing it for five years. I mean, you could potentially see, see shifts ? I mean, are you seeing more devoted to preparedness and the medium and long term theun initially five years ago ? Not really, really. Keep touching, phil’s ear. I’m sorry. First of all, i forgot to give a shout out tio unless he has a tag on still he’s, like, totally unprepared. And i keep touching his xero something you know, it’s. Nothing essential right now, it’s. Just i just i can’t help my hand just naturally falls there. I’m sorry. Okay, sorry. Eyes. Yeah. So i think with the disaster work so much of it is dependent on what disaster occurred in that year. So there was the year where the response was so high i was the evil you’re that ebola. The ebola outbreak was huge, and that was largely driven by remind large what year was that was in twenty fourteen, and then it sort of trickled into twenty, fifteen, fourteen, and so when you get a big thunder like the bill melinda gates foundation, this is their area where right help, and so when there’s a disaster, that sort of meats that that area that they’re really interested in, they were giving a huge amount for for that response and relief effort, and then the next year they were continuing to fund, but then they’re started sort of starting to look at, you know, how do we build up resiliency in these african countries for the next outbreak ? And so when huge foundation can drive trends, you know, because they’re giving so much money and so that in twenty fifteen then there was a lot more going for risky ridge action resilience, that kind of work because of the gate, but but blending for the ebola kind of area work. So i don’t think it’s too soon to say that there’s a trend overall trend for making different funding decisions. Um and it still continues to be episode it arika the call, but can you say a lot more about what united is able to do look mid term and long term ? Or is it really just yeah, i guess you had already said yes, so we’ll let all of that gets done through our partner grayce really, with our ongoing global partnerships with a great partnership with a group called air link that provides there like a man buy-in service, basically for ngos and non-profits who are looking for cargo or passenger lift into different disaster areas to do humanitarian worker disaster response on really rely on partners like them to know where the need is most. So we provide travel, and they leverage our travel to get people there. So with the ebola outbreak, i think it’s okay, since we’re replying, you know, responders into the area, i believe at some point we also gruesome medication smaller on a smaller scale, and that was sort of outside the u s and i think back then, we were much more domestically focused now, absolutely begun to grow sort of more of our global reach followship dealing a little bit too, like one of the limitations and how we’re able tio for you is the data at disaster philanthropy foundation, center dot or ge or that’s ? Where the reporters you can see all of it there, you’ll get access to the reports. You can see them that you can see. We have, like, a dashboard that gives, like, analysis that you consider. Okay. That’s all a disaster, philanthropy, dahna foundation, center, dot or ge okay, please go. Yeah. So, you know, one of the limitations on doing any analysis is the quality of the data that you have. And so we’re doing this analysis based on kind of the best available data, which often isn’t that descriptive. You know, a lot of foundations enters data, is coming from ninety forms because foundations are required to report their grants data. And so when there’s not enough description, it’s really hard to say, like a nuanced way how much money is really going towards these specific areas of a disaster, you know, disaster work, and so one of the things that were always trying to get foundations to do is to share better data with us so that we were able to be more descriptive and what the actual landscape is and so zoho eyes there a reason that foundation would be unwilling to ? To share data, you know, i think there’s a growing movement for foundations to be more transparent and, you know, that’s true sector wide yeah, why why would we like ? Why would they give you us to form ? What would be some, you know, options are on the type of foundation it could be, you know, there’s so many very, very small foundations that may not be stuff, and you don’t have the capacity to share that data. It’s your surveys ? Yeah, one more thing that someone has to dio um, and you know, some foundations and you want to see kind of under the radar. Teo, one of the things that you hear in disaster philanthropies that corporations may not want to talk about the war thirteen because we don’t want to get solicitations for friending they don’t have the bandwidth to dress, you know, calls coming in for help, so there could be reasons why, but the thing that we try toe encourages that foundations khun tell their story, you know, and and own that story through their data like bacon sort of narrate how they’re getting, why they’re giving three that data and they could stay the way they want to otherwise people may read their nine nineteen come to their own conclusions, and so we do have a number of foundation to voluntarily give their data to us and that’s one way we’re able to get more current data, but i think just were always sort of in the search for a better team. Oppcoll what are you seeing ? Generally, you know, beyond united just among your peers in another, in other corporate socials, social responsibility on what kind of trends are you seeing ? I think, you know, obviously with the number of disasters that company’s air having to respond, teo and sort of the the clip with which it’s being covered in the news also drives people’s prevent metoo respond to them, so i think we’re having to be a lot smarter about how we’re using the limited resources that we have obviously working inside of a corporation we’re stewards of the available funding on we’re also running a business, we’re making investments and communities trying to make smart ones, and the data absolutely helps to drive that as well. Yeah, so it’s not thie event or episode gets the most attention from the media. But deserves the great proportional funding ? Yeah, culturally, absolutely. When one of the things that we’ve done it united over the last year and a half or so, it was really get into what the critical needs and each of our major markets are. So where are our biggest presence ? So here in the east coast, in york, in new jersey, houston post, harvey was a big investment that was made in a the houston greater houston food bank, a direct result of what happened with hurricane harvey. So we see decisions like that being made. I think overall people my line of work are really looking with a keen eye to see where they can best leverage. The resource is that they have, you know, when you are not the exxon mobil’s or apples of the world, you get really creative way have really found a great opportunity to work with our customers are very generous customers to collectively work together to fund disasters toe just one disaster relief, i shouldn’t say fundez aster, we don’t want to be hurt faster. That is not what we want, teo, but to fund disaster response and really to bring the most help where it’s needed as quickly as possible and as efficiently as possible. So you finding that there’s more reliance on data on you getting more requests today than you did many years ago ? I mean, you’re doing the disaster. Philanthropy, uh, report. Just for five years. But you’ve been researching long before then. Are you finding a greater reliance ? Ah, good or interest in data driven decision making. I feel that we are, but it could be just because last year’s disaster season was so dramatic traumatic. There were so many disasters taking place in a really concentrated period of time at the end of twenty. Seventeen. And so we got a lot of journalists, you know, wanting to report on this. And what this philanthropy dealing. So we were getting a lot of requests for data and that’s. One thing that i will mention is that, you know, the analysis that we do every year is based on, you know, to your old data. But because we know that there is a lot of interest in real time like there’s a disaster occurring right now. What are thunders doing ? We have have a colleague. His name is andrew. And he begins to sort of scour than use sources and gdpr newswires, just to see what our foundations and corporations announcing about. They’re giving for a specific disaster. And so we’re able to then get a picture of what people are doing as it happens. So we’ve done that with hurricane florence on our our news, our new site, pnd philanthropy, unused. I just there’s a blob tracking hurricane florence with kind of who do we know are the biggest donor so far, and you can actually open up a spreadsheet to see what we found based on these new sources. So i own two homes in north carolina, so who are the biggest funders ? O, you would be asked, listen right now that we have this wall, more than five million loes committed another two or three million, and i’m going to forget who the curse teo shot, shot a man. Thank you, thank you. Uh, see, even i forget it’s, not stuart posters. That’s. Only one neo-sage i could see when we’re thinking, okay, help me out like you were mentioning a playbook. But you have now. And so one of the things i feel like i should bring up is that our partner, the center for disaster philanthropy, also has a place like this is like, i know what it was. Okay, go ahead. And this is meant to be a resource for philanthropy like it. If you want to do strategic smart philanthropy, what should do no disaster. Finally, what did you know what of other funders learned ? What our key studies ? The things that went well, you know, so there’s this whole place that you can go it’s called the disaster look, dust repellent people book come, our fenders are disaster, philanthropy dahna or ge in-kind that there disaster, philanthropy dot org’s. You’ll find the playbook there and what i was going to ask you was, uh, how about broader ? Forget about disaster ? Flandez we just go broader ? Are you seeing any greater interesting in data driven decision making ? Your work is not just disaster ? That’s, just one report you’re collecting all kinds of data, our foundations being any smarter today than they were ten years ago about funding decisions, i think there’s a greater interest in data, whether and how that’s driving decisions is probably specific to foundations. I think that within philanthropy, there’s a lot of strides that are being need teo like, how do we measure our impact, you know, like, how do we know we’re making a difference ? And measuring that, yeah, very it’s, hard it’s not easy. And so i think there are a lot of hard conversations about that, and i think from foundation center’s data point of view, one of the important things i think we can do is begin to benchmark at least what’s happening, you know, like we wouldn’t have done this disaster philanthropy analysis without a partner that was willing to say, we want to know what the sector looks like in this way, and so once you sort of set a benchmark, then you’re able to follow it over time and see you’re making a difference. And so i think that benchmarking pieces probably important for a lot of areas like i’ve done that lives spending for black men and boys, you know, there was a partner initially was open society foundations, they had a campaign for blackmail, achievement, and they wanted to say very specifically what isthe philantech be doing for african american men and boys, and we had never kind of done research on that. So our first kind of report was what what does it look like what’s going on ? And then from there on you’re after you’re able those sort of track how the progress is going, and also then identify is it is the finding starting to dip ? You know, there was sort of the swell of interest and foundations were, you know, getting really involved and funding really in a targeted way, the specific population, but, you know, we’re able to sort of see the trends of whether or not that sustained and growing, whether that nicole, are you able, teo, hold your partner’s accountable ? Or are you relying more on the local organizations for outcomes impact analysis ? Are you able to do that yourselves ? Or we do rely on our partners a lot ? Teo again, we’re in the airline business, we get people safely from point a to point b so we do rely on our partners to do that in this first. You also want to make sure no one is obviously being spent to weigh, evaluate that on an annual basis and we we look at look at what they’re producing in terms of outcomes, the number of people that they’re reaching know if they have studies going on sort of the long term impact of their programs, so we have four. Major e-giving areas that were focused on lifting up communities in crisis after disasters. One of them. Breaking down barriers and promoting inclusion, really wanting to build a more inclusive society, uh, inspiring the next generation of leaders, which is really stem, focus with being a technical industry of and the shortage of pilots and qualified people know we’re really looking to make sure that a cz many young people as possible, especially young girls, as well as social, economic, about a minute. Sure, sorry. So, yes, we do hold them accountable, because we have conversations, and we’re gonna cast a conversation about where we can have a bigger impact. Okay, so glad to see, you know, reliance on data as much as we need more. Sounds like grace is saying we could use, you can use more. Any questions ? Any questions ? Start with our live studio audience in studio. No questions were channeling the audience so well that there’s no, not a single question. All questions have been anticipated. Have have you perceived any difference in how our foundation makes its grantmaking decisions versus how a csr program or corporate giving program might make its philanthropic decisions ? So i haven’t really work in a traditional foundations because the candy prince that do i want to say, though, that i think that the main difference in terms of the driver of the decisions really is, you know, looking at obviously foundations, air stewards of their funds as well, and they wantto wantto invest those in a smart way with with corporate giving, i think you’ve got the nuance of looking at where you can also have reputational benefits as well and where you can have the biggest impact and interacting and engaging with both customers who are, you know, lend to your funding as well, because customers have a have a big influence over your ability to give see, we take that responsibility very seriously. Andi, look, to find the best partners and, you know, most effective ways, teo, create the biggest impact with the resources that we have that answers your question, all right ? We’re going to the giveaways because i know the lifestream does not have any questions. So i’m going to give away you’re gonna need your phone. You need your phone youtubers ? Of course you are included in this going be texting for books were texting very literate. Non-profit radio is very literate. Audience e-giving away books i’ve got. I’ve got four different books as prizes this week. All right, uh, but only one prize per person, please. So, if you’re a winner, then you have to step out the next time and the system will catch you so don’t don’t try. Don’t try to game the system, okay. First one first five people, my voice treyz crack. I think it did. Five people first five people text are going to win this book. This is modern media relations for non-profits first of all, you of course you need the Numbers so here’s the number 2 five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven something you’re not texting. You’re not in it. Not literate. I thought i thought non-profit one hundred percent literal audience. All right. Two, five, two, five. One, five, seven, nine, eight, seven. So this first book, modern media relations for non-profits, written by peter panepento and antionette cur. They were on this show just last month, walking through the details of how to set up on be eligible for earned media paid media and your owned media. The stuff you have in your own toolbox. How to start relationships with journalists, how to be media friendly. So journalists confined you. All right. So you got the number ? Two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven. Um, what else ? That cover ? How to position yourself is a thought leader. Yes. So that reporters want to talk to you about the subject matter that you’re expert in all right. The book is brand new. Um and here’s. What ? Your text. All right, you text data, so you’re not in it. I’m sorry. I’m sorry to see that we got plenty of youtubers. Alright, that’s what you do you text data to that number ? All right. Next book. Next one is i didn’t bring a copy of everything’s too many books to carry. The next one is i have just one copy of this one. One copy. One winner this time it’s braided threads. Ah, historical overview of the american non-profit sector by dr robert penna. He was also on the show. Just last month, how did this ? How did the social sector get here ? How do we come to look the way we do it’s history ? First person to text, same number. Oh, i should said, same number, same number you got two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven, same number you text threads, threads for braided threads. Alright, third book, also one winner, one winner, same number, the same number. This one is ah, you, us and them length in marketing concepts for non-profits. I see some people now and then. Now you’re jumping in because you want this book. But you didn’t get the number, so you didn’t get it in the beginning, all right, it’s. Two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven for the linked in book, this is going to one person you text linked in, linked in. And the final one. This one, this is robert. This is the the biggest seller of the of the four. This one is new power. The book by henry tim’s ceo at the ninety second street y new power. I says i saw this on a bookshelf in an airport. Um, last chance one dive, one copy of new power to give away and you text same number henry henry the name henri texted. Now that’s it. Okay, those air, the giveaways next week. We’re not going to get the foundation center sad. We gotta say goodbye to the foundation center, but you could still be with us. Of course. Go to tony martignetti dot com for the info. And next week we’re talking about the state of good twenty eighty team non-profit survey and also your brand personality that’s next week on non-profit radio. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers, go to wagner, sepa is dot. Com, like, tell us, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream, tony dahna em, a slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy. Tony dahna may no, no that’s, not a tony dahna missy. I get so carried away with the total narcissism. No! For text to give you text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Shows. Social media, is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Many thanks to tracy kaufman, susan she aroma and william lee at the foundation center. Thank you so much for keeping us going this whole month, all three of you, you with me next week for non-profit radio, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for September 21, 2018: Building Relationships With Family Foundations

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Susan Shiroma, Stuart Post & Danielle Guindo: Building Relationships With Family Foundations
Family foundations can be outstanding funders and partners for your nonprofit. But how do you get started when they say, “we contribute only to pre-selected organizations?” How do you start and steward a strong relationship? On our third show in Foundation Center Month on Nonprofit Radio, our guests are a foundation expert, a foundation executive director and a foundation grantee. They’re Susan Shiroma from Foundation Center; Stuart Post with Meringoff Family Foundation; and Danielle Guindo at Read Alliance.








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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host. We’re live from the foundation center in new york city, it’s our third show in residence here at the foundation center on foundation center month on non-profit radio oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of micro kyliyah if you lift off with the idea that you missed today’s show building relationships with family foundation family foundations could be outstanding funders and partners for your non-profit but how do you get started when they say we contribute on ly to pre selected organization ? How do you start and stuart a strong relationship on our third show in foundation center month ? Our guests are a foundation expert, a foundation executive director and the foundation grantee. They’re susan, she aroma from the foundation center stewart post with um erin goff family foundation and danielle gondo at meade alliance. We’ll take audiences from our take audiences from our questions, and we’ll take questions from our audience is as well, we have live audience. Thank you for coming. Thank you so much for being here in the studio, we have our youtube audience, although you to thank you for being with us on the live stream youtube, your questions are welcome as well. Just put them into the comments and we will see them and we will answer them. I’m tony steak, too a little more on foundation center month were sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dot m a slash pursuing capital p wagner, c p a is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com bye tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony got m a slash tony tell us and by text to give moflow donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine nine. I’m excited to introduce our guests. I love this. Seated next to me is the senior social sector librarian at the foundation center. Susan sure, oma has been here since nineteen ninety five she’s at est aroma and the foundation center is at fdn center, a lot of which is her on that twitter stream in may two thousand five, she gave an inexperienced speaker and fairly new consultant a very early break. She invited me to present planned e-giving at the foundation center two thousand five. I was very grateful i’ve spoken here about ten times through the years, and now here we are, working together on a foundation center month on non-profit radio and non-profit radio month at the foundation center, so thank you, i’m not a thief, he’s, the executive director of the merengue off family foundation before marrying goths, stuart post was senior program officer at the brooklyn community foundation, overseeing the arts, human services and workforce development portfolios. He’s worked at brooklyn museum and in the brooklyn borough president’s office. Stuart chairs the board of brooklyn community bail fund, and he lives in queens. Isa brooklyn heights, brooklyn’s in the house, danielle guindos has almost twenty years of non-profit experience. She was appointed executive director of reed alliance in july. She manages read alliances collaborations with schools throughout the five boroughs of new york city that benefit more than fifteen hundred children each year. She and stuart should be holding hands. Reliance is, um erin goff grantee. They’re at reed, alliance, dot or ge and at lead alliance join me in welcoming our panel, please. All right, susan. Sure. Oma. What is it ? Tell me, what ? Senior social sector library in what’s. A workday. Like for a senior social library in senior social sector library. Okay, so i basically spend at least forty hours a week helping people and organizations find money. It’s it’s a real super privilege helping them. How ? How are you doing this ? Ah, well, your foundation center today, this is an example of our flagship library. Anybody can walk in off of wall street, and we will help you find grantspace going to teach you about the philanthropic infrastructure here in america and abroad. We have a network of libraries that do that philanthropic infrastructure. That means finding money. Yeah, as in when you come in here and say i need two million dollars to fund my dream, we’re going to start asking you questions about your dream and well, before you leave, you’re going to have a sense of where that money could come from, and you’ll have a very good sense of how to find it. So we do this actually one on one in our libraries, and we also work with you online. We have a wonderful ascot. Online library feature so there is no excuse for anybody with a smartphone or a computer access to the internet. Instead of calling our receptionist, you can hit us up through our chat service and we will work with you. Basically monday through friday from nine thirty to five o’clock, we let you get into your offices and then by nine thirty in the morning, you should have some fund-raising questions on your mind. Way want you to be talking to us. I can stay online with you for an hour and around a half where you can ask me a hundred questions a day. So no question is too odd for us. Ok ? And the one on one is is outstanding. You can come here or to any of the they’re not called coordinating sent coordinate library were called threat self-funding information network partners. You could go to any of the funding information network partners throughout the country which you could find it foundation center dot ord and they will help you. They will sit side by side with you and teach you how to use their software. Show you how to do the searches. It’s really incredible when she says one on one, it is it’s, not they don’t hand you emmanuelle on dh send you send you off and you can use their premier product foundation directory online for free here or in any of these centers throughout the country, and get help on how to use it. And like susan said, you will. You will walk out with a lot more information about where potential grants come from then you had when you when you came in, so check out foundations and outstanding resource when you don’t have time to talk to people, you can use our website, we must have over twenty various web properties these days. So there’s something for everybody. Thank you, stuart. You won’t tell us a little about mary-jo off family foundation the merrin got family foundation is about ten years old. It was created by a successful, generous new yorker who made him steven arundhati, my boss, who made his money new york and wanted to give back to york and the focus is on public school students, mostly working with the development programs and basically it’s an opportunity for us to help level, and we feel very strongly that. What we’re trying to do with our grantmaking is to change, we do about three million dollars a year, i don’t know where big enough to change the world, but for three million dollars with changing pompel and it seems like that personal focus is appropriate for family foundation because we really are truly a family foundation family foundation’s come in all shapes sizes, there are some that involved in for six generation of the founder. I’m working with a living donor. I’m working with living donor who has decided opinions about where the funding should go. I’m living with that working with that donors or daughters and it’s really, truly a family affair in two, three, four generations and might look very different. But now, it’s very exciting to work with the people who created this, then frankly, helped them shape what are working. Thank you. All right and read alliance is a grantee of america. Oh, no, it’s not not yet. Not yet taking up. Uh, no. But stewart and i have worked closely together. All the information i was given this grant. So i think there’s something coming my programming, but program that i’ve led in my previous rolls and other organizations have been supported by the miracle family foundation, and so stuart post and i have developed a relationship that weaken talk about today over the course of that time that hopefully will continue now that i met reed alliance, which is an organization dedicated teo leveling the playing field in educational equity, and we do that through improving the trajectory of underserved early elementary students ask public school students mainly, but we also serve students in a small portion of catholic schools and frightened charter schools. Um, we do that through the power of team leadership, providing individual one on one tutoring in foundational reading skills. And so what we’re doing is providing meaningful after school employment for nearly a thousand teens in high schools in new york city, across all five boroughs that work individually after school and over the summer, with more than a thousand and early elementary students, kindergarten, first and second grade across all five boroughs. And we’ve shown over the eighteen years of our existence that this work this works the power of pairing a near appear tutor with a younger student has been tremendously impactful, and so we know that more than eighty five percent of all the early elementary school students who have participated in our program improved their real level by more than one grade level and that’s a land three months. Our programming is is very finite. Perform that programming in forty five sessions, and so in three months we make a tremendous amount of movement. And as one of the largest employers of teens in new york city, i find that to be incredibly monumental because there’s, no way one works without the other on so that’s. One of the reasons why i am very proud to be now leading an organization that works with these two very important constituencies. Yeah, then you know, we’re going. We’re going to start to go broader, okay, and we’ll have a chance to talk about your married programs. As we as we go, i want turn to susan, because family foundation’s, yes, you’ll need the mic. Family foundations can be. Enormously generous, teo the non-profit grantees potential grantees, but, you know, we’re here to talk about getting this relationship started and keeping the relationship going. So for for the non-profits that a little nervous about approaching foundations or don’t really know how to get started ? You’re you’re you’re coaching people nine thirty two, five, seven, five days a week you said i believe you. What what are some of the top questions you get ? Frustrations you here ? How can we help people get started in a process that may be a little off putting to them or discouraging to them, even if they’ve already tried and having been successful ? Okay, so the first thing is how many foundations are there in the us who’s out there who were ignoring in terms of asking for money ? So we have one hundred forty thousand grantmaker zen foundation directory online professional this week, like two hours ago, i checked and there are ninety six thousand three hundred seventy nine independent foundations. So if we looked at family foundation’s this’s, the group that we’re talking about today, i’m going to guess that by next thursday, when we update our product foundation directory online professional and this is actually a homework assignment for everybody in the room sometime towards the end was an advertiser’s going homework. No don’t no homework, no home, an anarchist there’s, no homework, allright, no homework. But by next thursday, i’m going to be up to look into our database, and i’m making a little pledge to myself that i’m going to guess that out of the ninety six sales and three hundred seventy nine independent foundations that’s something like forty to fifty percent of them, i will discover to be family foundations. These foundations are difficult for us to get to as prospect researchers if we look at the entire pool of foundations, we know ninety percent of them don’t have websites. So for those of you who are googling to find foundations to support your work, it absolutely doesn’t work like that. Ninety percent of foundations don’t have women’s rights, and i we have a national center for family philanthropy in the us. One of their survey said that seventy seven percent of family foundation’s don’t have websites, so family foundations are difficult to get to. You have to do the research to figure out who was in your neighborhood you also have to know who’s got the money in your neighborhood, whether that’s a neighborhood in new york or the whole west coast of the u s you have to know who’s got a family foundation, they are difficult to get to the convention and say pre selected route. All right, so how do we start to do this ? Research ? Okay, so you’re gonna figure out who you know in the community, you’re going to ask your board members to help you, you’re going to ask your favorite friends in the fund-raising community and the non-profit management community to help you. I would recommend running a search in foundation director online who gives toe arts in new jersey, who gives to food banks in southern california or in one particular neighborhood in los angeles. Then you’re going to ask yourself, do you know any of these trustees, officers and donors ? You know any of the employees of these family foundation’s ? If you’re using our product, i’m going to recommend you turn your linkedin account on there’s. No excuse for any of us these days not to have over five hundred people we know unlinked in if you’re using our product and you have your linkedin account turned on. You will know immediately if you know where you know somebody who can introduce you to somebody on the board of one of these family foundations. So it’s about who you know it’s about targeting your research correctly. I came with paper today. Just let me tell you chan’s like over one hundred tips on how to get to know these family give you after eight years doing let me give you little host inside the podcast inside tip guests never read the papers, they’re green. You see how many time you know the stuff off the top of your head ? You see how many times you referred to the paper xero thinking it just a little podcaster protect don’t worry if your guests bring paper because they’re not gonna look at it so but if it’s comforting, i know it’s comforting, it’s reassuring, right ? I do biographical histories on people who run foundations. I look at their family members, i find out who’s i’m dealing with. I try to look a philanthropic track records so by the time i’m going toe and i don’t really recommend i’m not supposed to recommend family foundations who i know, like seven would be seventy five percent great prospects to you. But i lied you most of the way there. So you have to do enough research and the family, the family members, the rest of the trustees and officers you have to know whether or not you fit into their philanthropic pattern of giving so let’s, keep going. Stop that’s abila ok, ok, stuart, do you get do you get you still get ah lot of enquiries, even though even though you are you contributed only to pre selected organizations, you still get increase that are off topic and not pre selected things come in over the transom all of the time. People reach out all of the time and actually just back-up to what susan was saying, i would rather than go to family members that we get we’re staffed foundation on the only staff member if there’s a staff person always trying to get to the south person rather than two trustees, if there is no step trust using only choice. But i would suggest that the point of entry is other granted then you have a relationship with any of the london organizations of a given family foundation reach out to them and say, hey, what can you tell me about the marron got family foundation or this guy ? Stuart from i would say everything that hasn’t come in through family member is come in two other grantee partners and because our current granted partners and because we have really nice relationships and ongoing relationships with the r grantee partners when danielle reaches out to me and says, and she’s done it many, many times, and many are you saying, i don’t know, i’m not i’m not saying okay now, it’s really welcome because she’s, a practitioner she’s the expert, are not. I learned a thing or two or three about youth development practices over the years, but i’m not the one doing the work, danielle and her colleagues of the ones doing the work and because daniel and i will talk more about this have a very sort of even planed relationship when she reaches out no, when she reaches out to me and says, hey, there’s, this group doing great work, i think you’ll enjoy them. Ilsen and as long as there’s something, but i see is a potential fit. It’s. Very easy to have coffee with somebody. It’s very easy to have a phone conversation with somebody if i get something totally over the transom but doesn’t have daniel’s name or other grantee partners and i can think of three or four off the top of my head have done this and we’ve gone on to fund their organizations. But if i get a a cold inquiry, if it’s something that’s a bit, i will respond and say, this is what we do it to tease it out a little bit more. Okay, we’re goingto daniel insect. But what ? What what’s ? Your advice for making that cold inquiry. Just be direct on this. A real pet peeve of mine when i was talking about this earlier is folks might reach out to me from my previous life at bergen community foundation, where i found the arts programs. It was a dept, very different granting partner pool. Then it will be. Oh, hey, stuart would love to get together with you said rather thin that and these are folks who i haven’t heard from years and it’s like oh, is it about the mary got family foundation. Because if it is, this is what we find see a fit with what you’re doing if i’m all let me know when i’d love to get together and invariably i never hear from those people again. All right, so you prefer honesty ? Stuart love to get together, you with you to talk about our work and how i think how i think it fits with marren ghosh self-funding programming, even if we end up not funding something or something’s not right quite the right fit. It’s a learning opportunity for me knowledge is power, the more i know about what’s out there, the better grantmaker i’m going to be and don’t pretend that you want to ask about how are you what’s going on in your life don’t want to talk about grantmaking i’m here to talk about and i’m here to find the right partnerships us okay ? All right, danielle, your advice about now she’s got one story. I’m gonna give you a chance to practice the phrase quite the right that you stumbled on that. So quite the right. Quite the right. You want to practice that one ? Quite the right. Yeah, the phrase when you were talking is what i say quite the right you tried. You tried twice quite right there. You okay ? Um, okay. Advice on honesty. I’m sure you agree with stuart, right ? Honesty is honesty’s best be straight forward. But how about the well, let’s let’s talk about that ? This is an ideal opportunity that those first couple of enquiries that you you approach stuart, you know, or others, you know, what’s your advice to your peers. Well, honesty, transparency number one. If you’re working in an organization, whether you’re the executive director in some sort of ah, you know fund-raising role you should believe very strongly in what you’re doing so that’s going to come through. And i think that’s always served me well in any role that i’ve been in when i’m selling so to speak and organization or the work of an organisation, if i don’t believe in it it’s going to sound inauthentic and no matter how much you try, people will be a listening that that’s number one but number two absolutely be directing the honest i think one of the first things that i learned early on is a professional in non-profit sector and i’ve had roles in development and in program, which often at small to midsize non-profits also means fund-raising is recognizing that if you’re talking to someone who works at the foundation of family foundation or otherwise, their job is to provide funding right ? So don’t worry about the act they’re used to it that’s their job. So get get over without you were nothing seriously that’s excellent. Yeah, so it’s a little a little more. You’re the ones doing the work it’s our jobs to fund that work canto identify that work and, uh, i welcome the opportunity to learn now, obviously everything’s, not a fit, but again, that knowledge is power and we get to approach our workers is not sound like a shameless commercial, but we approach our work with a profound respect for what you’re doing and really try to keep the hoop jumping, which is unfortunately endemic to the foundation application process. We keep that to a really minimum, then we replace it with an ongoing relationship alive and what i’m working with, what we call jen to the four daughters who each have a relatively small grantmaking pool that initially i worked very closely with them on it now are is now it’s been five years there. They really been wonderful students and have very decided opinions about what they want to do. So it’s a little bit less hands on. But my main buy-in piece of wisdom, if you will to impart to them is the relationship begins with it. It’s an ongoing relationship that is a small family foundation. It’s my job to maintain that relationship and bring in the family members as appropriate. And the family members are very, very interested in becoming part bilich let’s. See fremery questions, uh, any, uh, any livestream questions, anything ? No direct questions from the live stream, but we do have some good comments. Someone says outstanding tip to talk to donis that are already funded and another comments or here is shot. The person with three organizations and parental thanks, mom way have amy latto tourists. Rios, who thinks what things also is going to sing this’s an unbelievable resource. Thank you so much. So keep these candid tips. All right, we have we have a question weighted mike to come to you, please. Thank you. This is wonderful, and i have two questions if i may start with one and then we’ll see if there’s other very egalitarian on non-profit radio. All right, if that’s the case that you have a preference in the initial outreach, email or phone zoho email always always you cast the second that was an easy one got a second one is and this is i was a bit of a surprise of going to a current funding because i’ve always taken had the fear that if i introduce somebody else to a thunder there’s a finite amount of money am i eating into the part that i’m trying to get me going on the road ? A my introducing you to my competition ? Yes, we’re in a funny position that we’re not endowment based. If we were endowment based, i could say that we’re spending three point or one too million dollars this year, not a penny over. We’re not the actually very proud of the fact that when i joined the foundation five years ago at exactly this time of year, so it was towards the end of the county you’re on warren a counter year e-giving was about one point six million. Basically, my job is to go is to foster these relationships and port back to the family about the cool stuff the champion. And i report back to the family and a very sophisticated way, their texts and semi blurry photographs that i take with my cell phone and forward on and relatively riel time about the cool stuff that’s happening. There’s so much cool stuff happening. So, uh, so i guess it would it would depend on the foundation then if if they weren’t endowment based foundation, they had they had a capt spend each year. Yes. Then you would be introducing. You’re so it’s gonna depend on the mention my perspective. So do the research again. You’d be able to tell that by doing your research, what type of condition is it also ? Is tio the point of this discussion ? It is all about the relationship. So i’ve done that with stuart because i knew that that that’s not going to jeopardise my relationship with him or the funding that i had secured from america family foundation. I knew that because we have this equal kind of relationship where i’m able tto have those conversations with him ? There are other foundations where i would never have thought tio introduce someone else as a potential grantmaking or someone and that also is very discreet that, as you all know, we can’t do our work without partners. And so anyone that i have introduced as a potential of interest, it would be someone who may have supported enhanced the work that they were funding, which i thought is an important point to make. And and i would just like to clarify, we’ve come to the figure of three during half million dollars that’s something that we’re very comfortable with, so i don’t want teo present this is like, oh, yeah, send me everything where we want to review everything out there because the troopers were comfortable in the three, three and a half million dollar level, but because it’s, not endowment based there’s always room for another twenty five thousand dollar grant here, there is there room for another fifty twenty five thousand dollar grants ? Of course not, but within the the goose ish budget that were working within, uh, we’re comfortable with that amount, but it’s us somewhere. Okay, well, we can take more questions. After a short break gonna take a break i got a little business for our sponsors pursuing they have a new book and it is fast non-profit growth feeling from the start ups, they take secrets from the fastest growing startups and applied those methods and practices to your work in your non-profit it’s free, like all the pursuit of resources, are it’s on the listener landing page, which is that tony dot m a slash pursuing capital p for please. When you see piela there’s, a new accounting rule on how you account for each contribution kayman the tax law, you have to decide whether it’s a contribution or in exchange transaction, what the heck does that mean ? What’s beautiful is you don’t have to know what it means, because wagner cp is on top of it. That’s what you want you’re supposed to be doing, um, you can read about it it’s on their blogged, and then talk to the partner at wagner who had been a guest on the show a couple of times which to place to get started is you go to regular cpas dot com tell us for credit card processing, i’ve been reading testimonials from non-profits that have referred business is to tell us, and those organizations are now getting a long stream of passive revenue. I’ve also been reading testimonials from businesses that air using tell us for their credit card processing, and they’re very satisfied. So my suggestion is think of the businesses that are supporting you now think of businesses that are perhaps run by your board members, family members and those said other businesses that are supporting you, would they consider switching to tell us where their credit card processing the way to get started watched the video, which is at the listener landing page ? Tony dot, m a slash tony tell us i get my name in there often, um text to give it’s like texting friends there’s no keyboards to memorize hoexter give has a conversation with your potential donors it’s conversational, and they lead them to the gift for your organization. It’s very simple, it’s affordable said not one the expensive services you don’t need to be a techie because text to give will walk you through the process for setting it all up so you can have this conversation with your donors now’s a good time to have your phone your phone handy, you text npr, four, four four, nine nine nine npr to four four, four nine nine nine. It’s time for tony take two its foundation center month non-profit radio are, as i said earlier, it’s our third week, we’re going to wrap it up next week. Where ? Ah, stewart stewart said, well, before we started off camera off mike were in residence, i like that i love eleven non-profit radio in residence at the foundation center, you can come back for next week. We’re gonna be talking about data driven decision making, and our foundation center expert is going to be graced, sato and if you’re in the audience here, you could meet grace because she’s in the back she’s going to be seeing me with us next. Next ride a as we wrap up, but so grateful to the foundation center for having non-profit radio in residence here for the month. I love it. Thank you. And, uh, special shout out against susan, who was so willing to work with me since january to get this done. Thank you. Ok, we’re going back going back to our panel. Susan sure. Oma she’s, the social sector librarian, senior social sector library. Don’t cut it short. Been here since nineteen ninety five that’s. Susan ? Sure. Oma and stuart post, executive director of the marriage got family foundation and danielle jindo, executive director at reed alliance. Okay, then. You know, we were with you. We’re talking about breaking the ice during the research, making the recommendations. What other advice do you have for your peers ? Um, that i mention tenacity ? Many, many stewart said many, many, many right two nations oh, tenacious d that’s tio way. I’m, you know, the kind of person. And i think in order to be a fundraiser, you have to be the kind of person that here’s no and things no right now, but yes, later or no right now tell me how it could be a letting us later. I’m i would just caution everyone. Teo, you know, who’s making and ask if karen no do not get discouraged. It’s an important relationship to start. And even if you do get to know, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t stop communicating altogether, just like stuart had mentioned, you know ? He’s gotten, you know, folks who have reached out and said, oh, you know, we’re interested in talking with you about such a such a program but doesn’t entirely fit with what the parameters are, what his priorities are at this point on dh, then that’s it, they disappear into the either there isn’t even any follow-up and so to the exciting, strange and things can change, and to the extent you could continue to keep folks in the loop, i’m i’m a big believer in letting folks know what the news is put them on your mailing list, make sure they’re invited to things, even if it’s slightly outside the scope of what they might be interested in doing or supporting or attending, let them decide, but they will never know unless you tell them danielle that’s consistent with individual fund-raising too, you know when when you approach someone, you’ve asked someone for a gift, maybe you ask them for fifty thousand dollars and they gave you five thousand dollars. That doesn’t mean you cut them off or even if you, whatever you ask them for, they give you nothing. You know, i say clients six knows, and we’re halfway to her, yes, so that tenacity applies to your individual fund-raising itt’s parallel. If we’re talking about a family foundation or any institution no doesn’t mean no forever is stuart is suggesting and you still keep talking to people, you know you don’t you haven’t you don’t cut off your individual donors when they’ve turned you down don’t cut off your institution! I would say that relation if you’re the kind of person that is a social person and you like to build relationships and you like to keep up contact with boats and you’re good at keeping up your network that’s a natural right that will naturally fit within the scope of what you normally dio and if your offensive and you’re believing, believe very strongly what you’re promoting and that’s also a natural that’s not too big of a list and that’s what it takes to really not down some doors and genuinely thanking people can work wonders in another hat on the board chair of an organisation and somebody that we didn’t know from. Adam gave a very nice gift of ten thousand dollars. That’s, let’s, shout it out! Brooklyn community bail fund bruckmann gdpr she’d given ten thousand dollars and got the pro forma. Thank you so much. But it was somebody that we didn’t know who it wass so was board chair. I sent a hand written note or an e mail i get which say, very personal. We really appreciate this. And stuart posterboard chair. She reached out the executive director and i had coffee with her. She had given a cheque to a similar organization where she only got the pro forma uh, thank you. It turned out that we got another ninety thousand dollars. It was. And she was so, uh, touched by our having made that additional outreach. People want to people want to be thanked, and people want to be thanked genuinely. And in this hearkens back to what we were talking about earlier, these air all about relationships. People who work in foundations are relationships are people. People who support your organizations are people. And everybody wants to be recognized, not in us. It’s, miami sick advomatic way, but in a genuine pay, we really appreciate your help. Then that happens relatively rarely. And it doesn’t matter the size of the gift either. I think, you know. It’s important to remember that you know, if you have especially family foundation’s individuals that are supporting your work, he might have some of the level of five thousand whether it’s because that’s just the level that they fundez that’s what they can do with that time or fifty thousand, because that’s, what they could do with that time, each one is important to you being able to accomplish your goals and so a genuine and invite many invites us possible the things that they might like to see an invite to an event where you khun, simply just celebrate with them, or showcase some of the other work that you do, even if it’s not directly related to what they were supporting. Because that’s part of the relationship building you want them, tio feel like they’re part of your extended family and that’s how i think about the work that we do in the relationships we have your family, it’s, an extended family, we couldn’t do what we do without that support. And could you talk ? I’m taking over your job. You another anarchist, two anarchists and yes, could you talk about what ? The initial funding relationship, the genesis ? Of your initial interaction with the marron got family foundation was how that got started and how it led from organization organization to maybe another organization. Morning. Yes. So if i remember correctly, i believe the the executive director of an organization that i had worked at previously had been on the board with stephen arika of of another organization, they served on the board of directors of another organization reaching out to a trustee, right, and just threw that relationship building learns that he had a family foundation of what some of his interest may have been and invited him to events invited him to events to meet the constituents, the program that we thought he’d be interested in funding, and he was very was taken by it was actually young men’s responsible fatherhood program, and we had a number of the young men from that program at our annual gala that year and invited him to meet with him, and he talked to them. They had a very intimate conversation. I think that was the only reason why he was there. He is a very mission driven person. Andi was very impressed. And from there, i think stuart and i, we probably took it over in cash. We talked about the details you observe. I mean, one of the things that i do love about working with stuart and them arika foundation is he means it when he says that they are very interested in how the program runs and what’s actually happening on the ground. So the questions that stewart asked and the observations that he made on the site visits prior to funding the program and after the program has been funded, we’re not only, you know, helpful, but but also insightful. You know, they he understood enough about what makes the program work that they were helping us think further down the road about how to make it even better. Samuel, i’m gonna stop because you made me think of something that thiss was better. Do you think is stuart post story post non-profit radio ? You’ll see a rebranding next week, so come back to stewart post non-profit radio. We’ll have to scrap this backdrop. It will just exit out. If you have trouble, if things are not going, are we going the way we anticipate they were in the program that’s that your funding, uh what’s your advice tell me as soon as we know we’re waiting stuff happens, then we understand that stuff happens and, uh, if anything that’s going to make me respect in organization more and make stephen my boss respect an organization more because there’s, that level of trust the we can see, you know, this didn’t come out the way we thought it would be, and i’ll not infrequently have gotten emails from people saying, no, could we slightly redirect this ? Because what we thought wasn’t working, i mean, a proposal is a best guess, and sometimes best guesses go great, and sometimes they don’t and that’s fine, i mean, not everything is going to be ah, home runs, but by having, you know, that ongoing relationship where there’s trust which there’s comfort, and it also helps that i’m a staff person, it’s you know, i can get into weeds much more frequently than the family members who have their own lives and their own jobs in their own careers, and they’re busy people. So i can’t it’s my job, though, to get into those having those conversations and to be bringing in the family as appropriate. And of course, i’m always bringing family because it’s not my money let’s make something explicit, which is, you know, if you’re not honest and you try to conceal it, you’re going down a rabbit hole that is only going to be it’s going to be discovered. It’s going to be it’s going to be disaster in a crisis versus you’ve got a problem ? Uh, share it with your with your partner with your with your we’re partners in this the relationship ? Share it big frustration of doing philanthropy and philanthropy is a great gig, it’s a wonderful, wonderful privilege to get to do this work to go into communities that aren’t my own. Teo. Steve, the exciting things that are happening all over new york city, but i actually just are just totally be disarmed don’t be deceitful and dishonest. Yes, yeah. It’s, it’s a good thing i’ll help you through stewart. I know you do. I guess i shouldn’t be thinking you understand ? Uh, don’t don’t be dishonored. That’s what ? I think that also ties. Back to the other point that i made before in a couple of times, which is the authenticity, right ? The transparency if you believe that what you’re doing is meaningful, if you know that you’re doing the best job possible, the work we do is really hard and it’s our job also to to relay what some of those honest, real challenges are two funders too, so that they understand what you’re up against. And that means that the best guests that you propose which i love that sometimes doesn’t always come to fruition in the timeline that you imagined or you projected and having the conversation, the relationship is important to making sure that you maintain that trust and continue that i want to see if we have looks like you have some questions i have tio um okay, we have questions online, too. Awesome. Okay, william, you gotta go live. I mean, go go broad. Would you wanted ? Stuart said the word philanthropy. Give us the wide shot, please. Uh, exactly. Introduce the bear over here. I got sick. I got questions about our bear last week a few people asked what’s the bear in the corner. That’s phil. Phil, answer b, i believe, is that’s the foundation. So that is not my i wish that was my gig. Mike. My saying it’s. Not my bit. I do stand up. Comedy. Philanthropy is not my bit. Uh, but that’s phil in the corner. Well, welcome, phil. Uh, okay, so we have a couple of let’s go online, right ? Let’s, do an online question. You got something on your right ? Our question online is how can a non-profit discover whether a family foundation has a staff or if it’s on ly run by family members and trustees let’s give out to susan with that a plant ? Do we have the name of the organization without question ? Okay, person out who that was pen parenthesis again. Hoyle devoted to foundation center resource is, by the way. Yeah. Okay. So the question, wass when you’re researching foundations and you think you’re dealing with the family foundation, how do you find out if their staff members ? All right. So if you were using my favorite tool, which is foundation directory online professional and i have to put a plug in here for another tool that we produce that you can use free. Of charge at any of our funding information network partners foundation maps, though. So for those of you who do not like to read text ah, foundation maps is is a mapping tool that will literally show you who’s giving money to brooklyn or who’s giving money to south florida. But any rate you’re going to use foundation directory online for professional and the profile that we provide to you will tell you who the top staff members are. If and i also double check myself, i will go to a tax return and i arrest nine, ninety pf pf standing for private foundations, and i will check that tax return to see if it says there are no hired help on the on the team or if there is an executive director and i forgot to pick it up in our fto profile, that tax return is going to tell me who the top hired help is. It will give me their name and their job title so that’s one easy way to figure out if they have staff members of the foundation directory, online foundation directory online professional you and the nine, ninety and the nine, ninety nine. Ninety piela in case they don’t have a website, what if there’s a website it makes, you know, part of your research easier ? We know large percentage don’t have websites. All right, now we’re going to we’re going to continue, uh, ninety percent eliminations. Hyre yes. Just a minute. Wait for the microphone. Please wait for the microphone, please. There we go. First of all, i am very happy to see that this dahna treyz thiss uh, i i’m coming to a foundation center for a long time and nice sabat buy-in michael, i think susan salama. Uh, you see, sandy destroyed everything and it’s very hard. Tto re establish it and continuous what we like to do the most. And susan was helping us tow right. And my question off. Come. So, stewart, right. Ah, my agency with serving quinton brooklyn russian community. Eso can they come to you to see people support ? Well, let’s not even put stuart on the spot. Why don’t you talk privately after ? Okay, let’s, not let’s. Not even put to do it on the spot on and answer that dancer that question and then let’s, you want to say something ? Something, uh even though seventy seven point i learnt this. Today, seventy seven percent of private foundations don’t accept unsolicited requests, and we are among that seventy seven percent. But on our website, and we do have a website. I very, very intentionally put my email address on the website because people might want to reach out and again, things have come in over the transom all the time. And unless something is just plainly a dear occupant sales pitch on how i can raise more money, not enough fund-raising organization. If it’s a legitimate, uh, funding request, i’m going to respond to that very gracious let’s. Go in the back, ma’am. Yes. Say you find out that through research that one of your board members does have a contact with the board of the foundation, which you want to apply, what is the best way ? The leverage that contact ? If you’re i can only speak for our foundation and again, i feel if there’s a staff it’s always appropriate to go through the staff first, and there might almost be a sense that what you’re trying to cut in line ahead of where you should be, the appropriate, uh, chain of communications is go to the staff, and i wonder if you go to a bored person if that might, you know, screw it, bite you in the butt. All right, so we get some different we’re getting some different answers on i just wanted to assure you from the foundation center perspective, if you take any of her classes on fund-raising that is one of the things we’re definitely going to tell you that when you were having one of your board members, go bug the program, officer’s, head to another boardmember you have to cancel your boardmember to be very careful in their conversation with the foundation’s board, so if if they have paid staff like program officers, that the program officer doesn’t feel like you’ve gone above their head, so if you’re dealing with foundation that has very direct application procedures, just follow them and use that board contact, you know lightly. You don’t wantto take anybody, all right ? Actually, uh, staff should be looked at is a firewall. The reason why family foundation often times wants a staff person is to present this to prevent being bombarded with requests and having potentially uncomfortable conversations with me. It’s never going to be an uncomfortable conversation. Because it’s my job, it’s where you’re a straight shooter, it’s either potential fit. Tell me more that’s. Not at all what we do. Good luck with your fund-raising every else online ? Yes. Okay. From the big children’s foundation is asking if you are reaching out to a foundation for the first time and you discover there is a fit in mission and in funding focus. Is there a right amount to ask for susan ? Okay, so if that person was dealing with me in one of my conversations, i would ask them if they had done their research. Have they use foundation directory online ? Professional toe. Look at the size of grant paid out to non-profits that do what they do. That’s going. You always have to make the right. Ask so. We need thio essentially go through the last. Three years of the grantspace list of that foundation and try to figure out what the amount size is going to non-profits that air in your type of category and size range that the research is going to help you with that ? Okay, i would. Argh! You don’t talk about money at all. Have the conversation first to see if it’s a fit never send an uncertain with us. I don’t want to get a letter of inquiry, and to me that feels like someone who hasn’t really done their homework. I’m much more receptive, receptive to hey, we do this, you do this. Could we meet for coffee ? Could we set up a phone call ? Could we get together to talk about it ? And in the conversation i can talk about the kind of things we like to do with our grants and hear about what your needs are and then have that conversation to see if it’s a fit. But when i get just a letter of inquiry than unsolicited, an unsolicited letter of inquiry it’s very rare, that that’s a fit because they never took the time to have that conversation, which i’m very there’s, no relationship. Way spent all this time talking about relationships on dh, right out of the box. You’re asking me for money. Yeah, nice to meet you. You know, we have fifty thousand dollars, but with the odds that that’s going to succeed. But if somebody reached out and said, i’d love to sit down to talk to you about the potential of getting a grant from you, that’s, totally way, we have more questions. Let’s, go over here. This question is both for daniel and for stuart. So you kind of spoke about continuing that relationship even if you get a no response. And i was curious in your experiences if it would ever be appropriate to kind of approach of family foundation and say, you know, this isn’t a great fit, but could you recommend other foundations that you might know of that might be a good fit ? Is that kind of a conversation that one ? May i ask a question ? Okay, i’m going to actually, just we’re running a little bit at a time and a lot of questions, so, danielle, you want to take that say, yes, i asked that question all the time of any thunder, and stuart and stuart is nodding way. Stuart is not your only what ? Listening to the audio story there aren’t really big on value added and that’s what i’m trying to do, but let’s go over here right up front. Use your mic like the previous question, but if a fan dish of the foundation says that, give a onetime grant only you’re talking about a relationship. Should we just forget about that that’s a great question, it says one time only on you got funded. What would ? What would you do ? Down from my perspective ? I’m the kind of person i was feel like someone’s, always in the extended family, so you don’t know where that relationship is going to lead. So just like her questions, they might recommend someone else’s consisting that funding. They can connect another partners they can connect to the other other grant. So if you’re going tio reach out to them again, would you ? Well, i was trying to make sure that you could, like, use your relationship and asked them, you know, it’s been about two or three years since you funded us. I know you’re one time. Could we propose a different program ? Would that be a better fit ? Or would you mind if we, you know, do you think it would be a good idea for us to submit for the same programming again ? We have this gap on and then leave it up to them to say now that’s not gonna work, they’re still in your extended family don’t know where it’s going really fund-raising people have an honest conversation with them there. We just have time for one more question. You got your shot, let’s. See if there’s anybody else ? Anybody okay, give him the second third. This is third question because you had to in the first time, second time. Third question. What bonus has been great ? Very quick question. I want to make sure i have clarity on this that you’re saying my phone call to you to introduce myself actually is instead of an l a y. So if you like what we do, we would jump right to the proposal stage, and i’m saying that correctly, we’d be having a ponderous way we just had. Daniel started her drop with two months ago, and i knew that i would hear from her. I knew that she was moving on her last gig, and this was the sex. She went from the initial organization to a second organization, and we were one of the first funders, and it was a real home run, and we were extraordinarily proud of a program that we really help too kick up to kick off, and i’m so very riel sort of pride of ownership, if you will and i we had a relationship, and i knew that i would be hearing from danielle and from what i had heard about the organisation, it didn’t sound like it was a bit for us, frankly, but i this is a friend, this is somebody who i like. I’m not going, not somebody who i can say, no, i won’t meet with you. Of course, we met with her, but as we talked, it was the rial sort of creativity off over coffee, and i wrote ridden my bike jars and shorts and a t shirt, and when it’s informant like that, you could just have a really relaxed conversation in brooklyn and, you know, in brooklyn and queens, and it was an enormously sort of creative, fun conversation where i quickly picked up on what daniels needs were, and she understood what are sort of sweet spot is, and i really think there’s a great grant for us to help develop college access program among the high school kids we’re currently getting pain, it’s, all i have to stop you there, it’s all the relationship it’s also it’s, a relation having an honest kind, there’s a take away, that’s it. Okay, it’s, time for the give away, get your phone, get your phone, whether of course, live stream or here in the audience, you’re getting you’re getting a copy of this book. Braided threads rated threads. Historical overview of the american non-profit sector here’s the number you’re gonna text, too two five two, which is in north carolina area code, in case you’re wondering not not too far from where the hurricane just hit, actually, right where the hurricane did. Just hit. Two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven. The book, braided threads, is by dr robert penna itt’s, a sentence that’s in the title historical overview answers questions like, how did non-profit how did we get to where we are ? How did it evolve through history ? It’s not strictly chronological, he was on the show, talking about it just last month, there’s not strictly chronological, but you know, if you’re interested in how we became what we are as a community, he starts with queen elizabeth the first. All right, so you got the number you got. Two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven, you got it. Okay. First five people to text, they’re gonna win and you text family, family, that’s it. Ok, we’re moving on next week, its foundation center month on not proper radio. We’re gonna wrap it up with grant decision making, using disaster philanthropy as our example will find out what the ingredients are and how the sausage gets made inside. Foundations join me again in thanking our panel for today, susan, sure, oma, stuart post and danielle jindo. Awesome. Thank you very much. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital p with your c p a guiding you beyond the numbers waiting to cps dot com bye tello’s, credit card and payment processing. You’re passive revenue stream tony dahna in a flash, tony tell us, and by texting you mobile donations made easy there’s, another text opportunity npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Our creative producers. Claire miree off shows social media is by susan chavez, mark silverman in the audiences are web guy this music is by scott stein of brooklyn, many thanks to tracy kaufman, susan she aroma and william lee here at the foundation center. Thank you so much. You’re with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Hyre

Nonprofit Radio for September 7, 2018: Foundations As A Tool For Collective Power

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Brad Smith & Ana Marie Argilagos: Foundations As A Tool For Collective Power
We kick off Foundation Center Month on Nonprofit Radio! Live from the Foundation Center in New York City, our guests are Brad Smith, FC president, and Ana Marie Argilagos, president & CEO of Hispanics in Philanthropy. We’ll find out what FC offers for small- and mid-size nonprofits; what trends Brad and Ana Marie see; and how foundations can help our country come together at a time of great division.








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And from new york city, our first ever live audience show live audience. Thank you so much for being here. Prove it. I live because the music is playing what shouldn’t be ? I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with glass a phobia if you told me that you missed today’s live audience show foundations as a tool for collective power we’re kicking off foundation center month on non-profit radio my guests are brad smith, foundation center president, and anna marie are lagos president and ceo of hispanics in philanthropy. Find out what the foundation center offers for small and midsize non-profits what trends are panel sees how foundations can help our country come together at a time of considerable division, and we’ll be taking questions from our audience is our guests also include our studio audience ? Thank you again for being here, coming live to the studio and, of course, our youtube audience. Although youtube, we got a bunch of people on the live stream, it we’ll be taking questions from them as well. I’ve got giveaways going to prizes, giveaways at the end, you could keep your phone handy and when is it ? Never ? Not handy, but uh, but don’t be answering email during non-profit radio doing that or texting, but keep your phone around, you’re gonna need it. Tio win later on. I’m tony steak, too. We’ll talk more about foundation center month, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dot, m a slash pursuing weinger sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com bye, tell us, turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us, and i texted you. Amglobal donations made easy text npr, to. Four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. But don’t do that right now. I’m i’m thrilled, really, i’m excited that brad and anne marie, our first guests for conditions in a month on our first live audiences, thanks so much for being here. Let me give them the formal introduction. Bradford case smith devoted his entire two career to the philanthropic and non-profit sectors you joined foundation center as president in october two thousand eight, when the foundation center snatched him up. He was president of the oak foundation in geneva, switzerland, a major family foundation with programs and grantmaking in forty one countries, he led the ford foundations peace and justice, peace and social justice program, their largest program area, distributing hundreds of millions of dollars to organizations working in human rights, international cooperation, governance and civil society in the u s and around the world foundation center is that foundation center dot or ge and at fdn center anne marie are you ? Lagos has a successful track record working within the public and non-profit sectors. She joined hispanics in philanthropy as president in january, she’s guiding h i p with a bold vision to usher in a new generation of philanthropy that is by and four and about the latino community. She was a senior adviser at the ford foundation as a cz. Well, did you know each other support monisha ? No, you did not. But you come together. Destiny brought you to non-profit radio together. Seated next to give a two ford foundation. She was part of the equitable development team or work focused on urban development strategies to reduce poverty, expand economic opportunity and advance sustainability across the world. She served as deputy chief of staff and deputy assistant secretary of the u s department of housing and urban development hood. She was a senior program officer at the annie e casey foundation. There she spearheaded the foundation’s work in rural areas, indigenous communities and the u s mexico border region. Hispanics in philanthropy is at h i p online. Dot or ge and she’s at a m underscore ari lagos. But you left out the most important part, which i got from her. What i leave out krauz boardmember that’s. Not a yes for indigent center, boardmember. Oh, well, she should be sitting close to me. Then. Ilsen board members have our special special treatment. Um, so, brad let’s, start with you. Let please acquaint people with the foundation that is so much going on here. Data and research the directory, the excellent programs that are often free acquaintance with what’s going on here. Yeah, we do a lot. So there’s a very long answer. This question and there’s very short and to the very short answer. Somewhere in the middle is basically what bloomberg goes for the financial sector. We do this. We capture the data about what foundations do in america and around the world. They’re assets, the program priorities. What kind of grants they make, who they make, the grants to what the grants are. Four where the grants are located, where the beneficiaries are located, we captured this data, we coded, we clean it, we process it and put it out in all sorts of different ways for nonprofit organizations, for foundations, for researchers, for consultants and for journal, some of the major consumers of information are non-profits and you may say why in the era of the internet do we need to have all this information ? Can’t we just google it ? Well, it actually turns out that more than ninety percent of foundations did not have websites so you can find them if you go so the foundation center takes the tax returns and other data from all the foundations of the there’s about eighty seven thousand foundations in the us, many more around the world. We put all that out in searchable databases and tools, the biggest being foundation directory online, and these serve as fund-raising research tools for non-profits foundation director online is heavily used by large non-profit universities, y m c a a is, for example, red cross organizations like that, but also medium and smaller size non-profits and is also available for free around the country at physical locations is part of something called the funding information. Is there bullets their libraries throughout the country ? Right ? Libraries, community foundations, other community based organization people can walk in, get instruction. I’m using the directory there, all staggeringly, a real live person, which i know is kind of an anachronism in today’s world. But there’s actually a real person there, not just a screen who will help you do your search to see what foundations might possibly fund your green. So that’s one big audience for our information the other big audience actually its foundations themselves foundations are endowed institutions they have a lot of privileges because they’re in tao, they’re not selling things on the market, they’re not raising money, and i’m not kissing babies to get votes, but they all because because of all those things, they’re somewhat isolated, so it’s very difficult for foundations to answer. Two basic question, and those two questions are who’s doing what ? Where and how can i know what other foundations already know about my issue area ? And we help answer those questions for any issue, be a climate change at risk youth, racial equity, whatever you can think of the foundation center can actually tell you what all the foundations are doing about that issue and who their partners are in this country and increasingly anywhere in the world. And we can also tell you what other foundations have already learned about what works and what doesn’t work in working on some of the major problems that face our society. So those are some of the things we do, we do a lot more. We’re very busy or going programs about the programs here in the the programs here, yes, we’re we’re sitting and we’re sitting here in the clark training annex. Of the foundation center thirty two old slip, we offer a full programme of training. It is both fee and fee based training and special events that training curriculum focuses on proposal, writing fund-raising research how to get grants for foundations how to get corporate sponsorships we have a very popular siri’s of class that’s called the proposal writing boot camp where you come in and you spend three days in a full room without a non-profits and you walk out with a letter of intent and a proposal that is ready to send to a foundation and you learn how to do it along the way. We have a lot of special events to increasingly in our sector is changing, so we find it non-profits have lots and lots of new questions and you need so really, you know, what do i do ? What’s the best way to deal with social media ? How do i maintain my reputation in a very volatile, contentious public sphere ? Um, how do i work with millennials ? That’s a favorite topic, actually, how doe i actually approach a foundation ? Those kinds of we have a lot of special events where you bring in people. Who are experts in these fields to talk to people and these air, largely free event ? So we have some fee based, some free events, and we have lots and lots of free online tools to really popular websites one called grantspace, which has an enormous amount of information or non-profits on how to get grants, and another one called grantcraft, which is actually for foundations and foundation professionals. It’s a you were hand foundations of very interesting. I did it for much of my life, you know, fremery and, you know, neither one of us went to college to get a degree in being a philanthropy point or being a foundation person. Its a very large industry in the u s foundations have over eight hundred billion dollars mass let’s give up sixty two billion dollars a year. There’s over seven thousand program officer king foundations. But there’s nowhere you can go toe actually learn how to become a program. You learning on the job ? So what grantcraft does a zit curates practical information from people are actually doing the work and then makes it available to the hole and that’s part of grantspace certainly, but that’s grantcraft that’s. Grantcraft and these programs you have live here through the years i’ve spoken in probably a dozen of them on none of the topics you mentioned that you planned, but fund-raising plans. E-giving um, it’s just enormous resource, not only for the city, but now, i mean, now a lot of the programs are streamed live, you don’t have to be local to participate and learn from the live program, yeah, and we actually have our own physical locations, their own field offices, which are regional offices in atlanta, d c cleveland, new york, clolery in san francisco, we run similar program, so, you know, these are tremendously valuable they’re also very valuable to us because i’m constantly amazed by the people and the cause is that come in the front doors of this organization, and what we find is a lot of the people that sign up for the free events are not, you know, it’s, not harvard university it’s not planned parenthood it’s, not big non-profits these are people who are on the front lines dealing with some of the most difficult problems, and some of them are just creating their organization who fulfill their dream, and we’re very proud of the fact that we can run organization the way where we can offer as much free information and free services to people who can’t. Before now, i produced non-profit radio, the podcast for small and midsize shop, and i think harvard and m i t could learn from the guests that that i have on the show, but i know they’re not they’re not listening, i’m producing it for the other ninety five percent. All right, let’s, let’s dahna anne marie, talk about hiv mean hispanics and flandez bonem you know, in the current political environment, latinos are r r bashed i mean, it’s, you know, it’s zane ful, a lot of the attention that is directed the evil attention, so, you know, how are you ? How has this changed ? Your changed your work and how you elevating latino ? Back in the eighties, when i first started my professional career working in a community organization doing the mobilizing, we used to wonder how we could move the needle because latinos were invisible and we couldn’t understand how to become visible and seeking some respect, dignity and fairness. And now i’m like, well, those were good days being visible because, yes, right now we’re in the bull’s eye of the senna phobia, the racism scapegoating, it’s very, very ugly brad a za good boardmember else they brought often talks about the democratizing of data as part of, like that’s the way i explain to my mom what foundation center is hispanics and philanthropy, i think about it as democratizing philanthropy, so that philanthropy is not for us professional foundation philantech points you called it, but that it’s accessible to everyone, so that at hispanics in philanthropy, what were doing at the network of foundations and philanthropists and philanthropist are givers, clan typist or anybody like stephanie, like zohra ? Like leda, my mom, my brother, everybody can be a giver, and so what we’re doing is complimenting that kind of mentality so it’s not just the professionals, but also folks that want on on ramp, into investing in their communities, in their infrastructure, in there institutions. And how do we do that ? It’s a new way of thinking about philanthropy so that it’s complementing each other, and so the power and balances that you know very well between foundations and the non profit organizations, the grassroots organization that are on the ground that so that there is some kind of ah equity in that exchange because they’re coming with resource is an expertise, which is just a sound. You got something going on now that your civic participation glamarys program i just started in january, and this was just in a few states like justin, five or sixty and wrists south. Um and we’ve been working with our partners at the e r piela endorphin, the national center for responsive philantech thank you for doing that. Non-profit radio we have jargon jail, yeah, acronyms get you jailed immediately. Arika bank but ncr shot out to their fantastic work on the south, looking at the incredible lack wit, equity and everything prum access to education to jobs to housing. Oh, and all of this is really because of a lack of influence, and so the civic participation in the south were looking at states where you traditionally think of latinos, florida, texas, the growing community in north carolina, but we’re also looking at louisiana, we’re looking at georgia states where we don’t traditionally have latinos but are very much magnet for latinos right now in georgia in terms of absolute numbers is the tenth largest latino population. Ah, and how do we make sure there’s an opportunity for them to have voice ? Because that the end of the game that’s what it’s about ? We need voice and agency so that off people are are able to participate in the civic fabric where schools don’t teach civics anymore ? And so we’re trying to do is recreate that civics. What kinds of activities i don’t i don’t know if it’s right to ask what you’re looking to fund, but what ? To what level do you want people to be active ? You want voter roundups, voter and voter registrations, or is it encourages people to run for office or all of that ? Or, you know, one of the problems is that we only think of civic participation as voting and voting is very important, but i would say it’s a proxy for civic participation, just one proxy being counted as part of the senses is another, but really being going to p t a meetings, being involved in your community in ways that affect you every single day a lot it’s year around on a lot of different topics. S o the voting is the one that gets attention, but no, we’re encouraging year round engagement with you’re whatever is the process, is it about the park ? Is that about ? The school is about access to health ? Is it ? How do we get better jobs ? So that’s what ? We’re encouraged, why their reluctance to be civically engaged in the latino community they’re right now, there’s so much mistrust in the system you have people, people are locking themselves at the houses and and i’m not going out you in washington d c i just read a washington post article where folks are going to renew their passports and their except instead sent to deportation proceedings because their birth certificates are even though they’ve had a passport for twenty, thirty, forty years right there, there’s a lot of of what do you call it ? Of mistrust in the system ? People who are residents, permanent legal, lawful residents are also not being. They go to natural eyes and their instead sent into deportation proceedings. What i saw last month when i took a group of fifty five thunders to the border to san diego. Ah was people who are coming in applying for political asylum. They’re doing it the right way with the papers. They’re coming from places that are war torn, they’re not economic refugees of political refugees, and they’re being sent into the next day without access to a lawyer. Anything they’re being bin that background, esso before start changing and there’s no playbook because we’ve never released in our lifetimes. We haven’t lifted of your so what hip is trying to do is provide that rial time information. It’s a lot of what we do, that’s. Why we took funders to the border region. We took them, by the way, not to texas ah, but to a place like san diego. Auntie wanna so that people could see that it’s not just central americans and mexicans that are coming that are getting affected through a system but there’s huge tent cities with thousands of haitians, there’s thousands of people from africa, from nepal, from india, venezuela, brazilians that are coming and that are trying to navigate the systems which are not written anywhere and there’s a lot of there’s, a lot of discretion and how officials are dealing with it. And so that requires a real time learning from the program officers. From the philanthropist who are making decisions on their invest. The strategy is so that’s one of the things that we tried to do is providing that rial time learning so that they can get that knowledge but also coordinate their investments with others. We also provoc developed funds. So right now we have a fund on the family separation crisis on families first altum um, in addition to the mini grant programs that you referred to, which is the civic engagement in the cell ? S o we have lots of different things running, and also we offer on a ram’s i’ve started the conversation by saying how khun you you and you be a giver, so we have ah, first and on ly bilingual crowdfunding platform in america’s, which is hip give. So if you’re a grassroots organization and you don’t have a development person, we can we provide the capacity and the opportunity you through this platform for you to be able to make yourself visible and raise funds latto bread uh, was an amendment to the akron entail thing with jordan down, these are going down. I think we have to give it a pass for hip. Hip have best understood in them that they have introduced a cz hiv president ceo okay, of hispanics, implants that one’s understood. But n c r p and c r p is not want i know. Um all right. So you have all this, this trove of of data research ? What are you seeing ? Trend wise ? What what’s what’s ah what’s growing in funding or ? And i’m also interested in what areas you might feel are not getting attention that needed the data is really powerful because of not only do we have it, but we’re able to geo locate it, which means you can see it on a map so you can search, you know, a mapping platform by an issue, for example, let’s say, you know, you want to understand what philanthropy is doing for hispanics and latinos. You can search it for bye beneficiary group or you can search it by what is how is philanthropy benefiting hispanic and latino populations buy-in basic education. You can then filter a subject and the population group you can see it so it allows you to actually spatially also and visually see, you know the gaps if if you were to do sort of a survey and virtually any country in the world and there are forms of philanthropy and most all countries, you would find that the two biggest issue areas that get funding our education and health. This is true universally, i think it’s true for lots of good reasons. The good reasons are that there’s a very good research and very good data that shows that the highest returns on investment in terms of social mobility and education and equality is is for education. So that’s a good reason to be planning education, but it’s also for reasons which i think you are somewhat less impact driven, and they have to do with all the murders. People tend to give money to their own lovers, and they the fund-raising departments of large universities are very good at reaching out to the people that went to them and getting gifts from them. Health. I think also because health is something that affects us all andan affects isn’t very personal way, so you often find that philanthropists will tend to want to fund. Health institutions and subjects within health specific disease, for example, cancer because of a very personal history because of a family member because of a friend, maybe because of their own life, they were personally, you know, they were touched by a disease and they were helped by an institution, and they want to give money for that. So there’s a lot of money that goes to help in education when you get outside of that dahna it’s, the money tends to be scattered over a very large issue. Areas, by and large the the toughest, most controversial sort of social justice issues tend to guess the last money because they are divisive, there isn’t agreement, they are controversial and there’s some interesting trends developing that we’re beginning to see that i think have a lot to do with the moment we’re living in one is sort of the creation of kind of emergency foundations, especially in this country after the most recent national elections. Um, and a lot of the really harsh rhetoric that was used during the campaign and the fear that existed after the election, i mean, even for latinos, i mean trumps announcement in trump tower. Coming down right after came down the escalator. Who did he single out ? Mexicans. Right. They’re presenting us rapists and murderers. Oh, and there’s. Probably some good people, too. Yeah, and i think it affected, you know, within our own institutions. I remember we were when the talk of the muslim ban came out. We have muslim staff members and we sought legal counsel because we had people asking us questions. Well, you know, i have vacation. Can i leave the country ? You know, we’ll be able to get back in. So we wanted to make sure we understood actually, what the legal parameters, or so that we could best support staff. Do you feel like social justice is not getting the funding ? Well, it’s getting this kind of emergency. But what worries me about it is that’s all ad hoc. Well, it’s react i think it’s coming for good reasons. Foundations don’t operate in a vacuum. Foundations have constituencies. And the, uh, the constituency the foundations which of their grantee partners were coming them and say, we need support no are being hip, be it the mexican american legal defense and education fund all the different kinds of rights organizations out there, the groups have worked with him a great immigrants, for example, they were tremendously scared of the new situation. How are we best going to serve our population that’s in need ? So i think it was an understandable and a good response of foundations and say, we’re going to create special funds to do this. What worries me about it is that if you it’s funny, right leading up to the elections and after the elections, i was doing a lot of speaking around the world, and i was speaking on the topic of the role of full answer being a liberal world. And the notion of a liberal was actually coined by fareed zakaria in the nineties, when he was looking at the growing phenomenon of government, democratically elected governments around the world that were behaving in undemocratic or liberal ways without respect for constitutions, for basic rights, et cetera. And this was always something that, you know, sort of comfortably us analysts saw happening somewhere else, but not in the us, and what we’re seeing is it’s happening in europe. It’s happened united states having a large swathes of the world where you have elected leaders that are sort of changing the way the game or for democracy um and one of the things that i was talking about in these speeches is that this is not an isolated phenomenon in one country. This is a global phenomenon and the solution there’s not sprint, this is america and it’s being driven by riel issues that i think all of us were not paying enough attention to. We’re not paying enough attention to the long term effects of globalization which created income concentration, the top of the society around the world, the fact that traditional working class is around the world were seeing their jobs being displaced and this incredible flow of people around the world that produces a very convenient supply of scapegoats. We’re seeing this all over in industria of entries, people that look different, they talk different languages, you know, that’s the problem, you know, that’s why we don’t have jobs, that’s why we don’t have wage growth get going, i have to have to stop it from erica’s amglobal business because we’re funded on i promised the audience that we’re going questions i had said both both halves right after i do. A little business here and talk about our sponsors going questions. So you got, like, three minutes or so to think of your questions. Okay ? Um the first is pursuing, and they’re knew e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups, they take secrets from the fastest growing startups and apply those methods and practices to your non-profit it’s free as all their resources are it’s on the listener landing page and that’s that tony dot m a slash pursuing capital p regular cps they have something on their block that may interest you it’s new revenue recognition standard will it impact me ? Okay, not the sexiest like most click candy ish title that you’ve ever seen on the web, but that’s because they’re sepa is right their heads aaron the tax code where you want you want your cpa’s heads to be in the tax codes, federal and state, so they’re where they belong. It’s a new this wide sweeping rule about contributions and how you account for them categorise them. You’ll find that at regular cps dot com, you’re quick resource is then you click blogged tell us credit card processing. I’ve read in the past testimonials from non-profits that have referred businesses on those organizations getting a long tale of passive revenue month after month, i’ve read testimonials from those businesses that air using tello’s for their credit card processing, they love it. Um, think of family businesses think of boardmember businesses think of businesses in your community there already supporting you, you can refer them the way to get started is watched the video it’s at the listener landing page, tony dahna em a slash tony tello’s and texted you, you’ll get more revenue because texted give makes e-giving easy it’s. If your donor’s consent a text, they could make a donation to you. It’s simple, affordable, it’s secure. I’ve talked to the ceo chadband boyd very smart guy who’s built a very smart company if you text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine nine you get the info and you can claim a non-profit radio listener offer time now for tony’s take two and i want to talk more about foundation sent a month, but we’re just this is just the kick off. This is the first of four all the september shows in, uh, of non-profit radio are going to be here at the foundation senator live. I’m very grateful to brad and his team for we’ve been working on this since january to put together a month of shows here at the foundation center, a zay, said it’s, our first time studio audiences, taking life questions first time doing that because the podcast. So people listen a couple of days after i recorded after, you know, moments just after a court after it’s published ah, month after it’s published, and you typically get very little feedback from the podcast audience that we’ve got over thirteen thousand listeners. But i get precious little feedback, but i know they’re there because i see the stats, um, so i know people are listening and downloading and listening. Um, so this is a great opportunity, and we’re going to transition to that, uh, right this minute. So now it’s, time for the listener questions to the audience. Question who’s. Got a question. We’ve got a microphone. It was a question for me or brad or anna marie questions. Okay, there’s, a question of front treyz is coming up with a microphone, so you will be, you’ll be heard. Our first one brave first questioner. I’m non-profit mathos takes one, and then they’ll be six. After that, you’ll see. Thank you. Happy toe, warm everybody up. My name is sam. You mentioned a little bit about the work that you do, but i’m curious about which projects or initiatives at your respective institutions your most excited about right now, and maybe reflect how that sort of maps onto this narrative about the great political divide. What most excites you and marie will start. Very hard. I’ll give you two examples. If you allow me. One is based on the civic participation in the south, very worthy and important. But it’s also a test for us at the hip by doing the civic pit participation in a smaller geography. One where i would say there’s, a deep urgency. I’m trying to test the hypothesis that this is something that we should be doing broader. Um, so i’ll be watching to see how this works, and if it works well, you could expect that to go broader. I’m also really excited about our work on leadership and leadership development, because we’re working with the trustee’s foundations and they other, when you think about people who are trustees, and you think about them as being accomplished, people brilliant. You don’t think about them as needing tools or support or or helping articulating a message. I have been a lot of board meetings where i could see me for support. Yeah, and what i’ve seen, what i saw in the first six months as i was going around the country as a listening tour, i was getting lots of folks that were even their new and philanthropy, because, as you said, look, there’s not a course that you take that we’re trying to figure out how to get more connected to others like them, but i saw on over representation of ah, trustees that wanted to understand what trustees in other parts of the country were doing, especially because right now there’s, they often feel a little bit lonely and that they articulate a message and there’s not enough people of color in the board rooms, often not a foundation center, and so they want to be able to understand how they do this from a position of power with people that have very different let the experience so that’s, lots of fun, our work around and jen with latino leaders that are midcareer looks recent to me said you’d get better one that directly relates to this, or did you call the great political divided in so called the foundation center has way have lots of websites that are based on issues, and one is actually about foundation funding for us democracy, it could be found a democracy, not foundation center dot org’s, and this is a data visualization site that allows you to see the many different ways that foundations across the country are investing actually in the functioning of the democratic system itself, things like campaign finance, uh, votre voter participation, government rules and regulations, regulations, accountability on and it gives you an overviewing you khun right down to individual grants and you can see what foundations were doing, and foundations have different views on this. This is not a partisan site. Um, it basically gives you the data so you can understand what what conditions are doing so that’s one of the things i think directly relates to what you’re talking about. The other thing i’m really excited about is actually a technology thing which is totally and that’s, because one of the big problems with the information for the non-profit condition sector is it’s. Based largely on contact returns called nine nineties, the kind of things that most people they already talking about help help you prepare for the c b is right, it’s right on the revenue recognition comes in handy on those ninety’s the the problem with nineties is that they’re filed by non-profits that go to the internal revenue service, the ones that are electronically filed are finally now as a twenty sixteen being released is elektronik open data that we’re not before they were released. This image files and the ones that are file this physical documents are still being released physical dahna there’s a tremendous time leg between one and organization finishes this fiscal year. They have up to a year to fill it out. It goes to the irs, it takes time to get from the irs to public access, and then it takes time for organizations like ours or our partners guide star to actually do something with that data. So we’re dealing with information about the sector that is based on what was happening in the sector as many as three or four years ago, so we’re involved in a project which is basically taking rial. Time flows of information we’re looking at downloading a million new stories a day. We’re looking at over one hundred twenty thousand social media feeds non-profit organizations and using machine learning techniques and data science techniques that basically pull out from that huge torrent of information anything that’s philantech be related individual gifts, the name of a person and organisation and the person a subject a location can we can we see anything about this project ? Not yeah, no, this is a preview of coming attractions, but we’re beginning were we begin to put this information into our products are thematic based websites, so you’ll be able to see together with that more historic information ? What philantech overviewing today and our real goal is that, you know, if you know on ahmadi is really worried about, for example, you know, the separation of immigrant children from their families and goes into our database is a search now that’s not going to show up in the data is three or four years ago. Well, because that’s happened today, but we’re begin to pull in information will show you exactly what the sector is doing about that issue. All right, we’re excited. What i didn’t say is that each questioner actually get the candy. I held that in a bay, and so i wanted i wanted the, uh, one of the first person to be rewarded. I do not know and actually you get two candies. So catch both of these. Yes, alright way. Have any questions from youtube yet ? No, because okay, youtube audience you’re welcome, teo comment and ask your questions and another question right here in the audience, i can tell you want to buy bread ? Yes, and the work that we’re doing, the work that he’s pushing for it has been in credibly powerful. For example, last year, almost to the day we had hurricane maria ah, hey, puerto rico! And it was by using his that of really, really quickly and the data that was compiled by the folks at the foundation center that we were able to show, for example, that five million dollars on average is where foundations from the mainland spend on puerto rico in any given year. Ah, that compared like that during a time when the island was going to debt restructuring. So it was something at the level of detroit, but the court was receiving two hundred, and fifteen million in the whole entire island was eso were able to show the disparities in terms of how different populations or geography these are are receiving the sources or not. And when you bring that kind of data to a foundation representative, you’re saying it’s not just what’s happening here, but it’s repeated all across the space of philanthropy, and this is a systems wide issue, and then you’re able to get people to say, oh, then we need to be a leader we need to make that happen, we need to make a change, and i’m gonna ask you about actually making that non-profit could do to try to make that change, and but i want to see if there are any questions anybody else ? Anybody in the audience now ? Okay, please wear your upfront. Mike is coming see it’s, that candy reward ? I know because without the candy you want, i can’t say i’m asking a question because i’m hungry. He’s a small candies. I wasn’t gonna ask because it’s tough. I don’t know what your answer might be but your questions medium groups like were small startup non-profit what ? Kind of work. What kind of work you do is called core africa. It’s, an african peace corps program. We actually have offices in morocco, senegal, malawi. And we just opened in rwanda. Spending quickly. It’s what’s. Your question. Capacity ? How dough. I mean, we are members of the foundation center. I have sent out hundreds of allies proposals. Rarely do i get a response most of the time. The response is sorry on guy go back and ask why and they say we don’t do that. Um i think about fund-raising with foundations and what the words that come to mind are rejection, discouragement. And the word you used earlier was invisible. Um, how do we break through what’s your advice for organizations like us. I know what the answer is. Capacity. I mean, then fund-raising is on ly one of the things that i dio and its foundation there. Only one of the types of fund-raising that we d’oh. I have fifteen minutes a week. Her foundation fund-raising what’s your advice. All right. So small and midsize mean small small organizations. Um, the time constraints buy-in the rejection. What ? What advice do you have ? How do you how ? Do you get hurt ? How do you get seen ? And you get attention ? Frustrating ? Well, i yeah, i have actually personal experience with that because i worked at foundations. Right ? So and, you know, it’s, the inverse problem. You work in the foundation ? Yeah. I remember. One year at the ford foundation we we decided to count everything that we could possibly conceive of a request, whether it was a full proposal or an e mail or letter of intent. One hundred forty four thousand requests. And in a year where we made two thousand grand. So you spend the majority of your time is the programme office are saying no. And even if you fight against that, you become very jaded, and you become very automatic response. So when i came here, of course, is that this is a non profit organization. So we raised we raise money, too. And i quickly thought i really realized what this is like dating with like, except it has, like, a much hyre rejection rate, you know, it’s, like you get rejected many times every day. And we actually have a few rejection letters, which are i think they’re form letters because they recommend that we actually consult the foundation center and then they give us the address, you know. So so you know, i think that’s also there’s no, easy. We get that question all the time. I mean way teach that a grant begins with a relationship and it’s really true. It’s very hard to cold. Call foundations and get a grant. So we have to open that relationship. Yeah, we teach people that are fund-raising boot camp. We did things like, you know you you map you. You look at who’s on that board. You look at the social networks, you look at their fate, you know, facebook, you looked at length in you see, if do you know anybody who knows that person you use databases to see ? Well, what other found eight ? What other organizations has this foundation given money to ? Two that i know, you know ? Can i get another organization to broker the contact ? I mean, the thing is to somehow find a way to get through tow a personal, huh ? You can. Sometimes there are api request for proposals. Things sometimes, you know, send in something and get something. You know. Also, the work you’re doing is difficult. The relatively small percentage american foundation funding goes for work. Outside the united states, it’s growing in terms of dollars, but the percentages have been reasonably stable. Most of it goes in the us, and then one of the countries we’re working and one is frankie phone, right ? Rwanda, right ? Yeah, what ? And setting all right. And, you know the biasi but for africa funding of us organizations is anglophone africa, where you find the funders in francophone africa, they tend to be european fundez like bilich king baudouin foundation from belgium and one that so you know what you’re also doing is really tough. I mean, we do have their one website. Have you seen it called equal footing dot or ge ? We produce for bloomberg philanthropies and it’s actually, about all the funding that’s going in from foundations into rwanda, burundi and the democratic republic of congo. It’s a free public resource. I don’t really want to give some advice. Isn’t there an std funders ? Well, so what about the broader question ? But small non-profits trying to get attention. I would agree. Because in the philantech well, we know it’s hard but you have changed. How do you get the attention ? Really ? I know it’s. Like trying to date, harvard university ? No, i would agree completely with brad because it’s based on relationships. But if it’s relationships where it looks like you’re pursuing the program off officer will become. We’ll put up more potentially barriers to create a safety. So i think that my opinion and there’s an old adage of if you want money, ask for i ask for ideas. And if you ask for idea, you probably will get money. It’s that it’s going to it’s a hey, i know that you’re overwhelmed with reese. With the need for resource is what i need is help thinking through and get people invested in your work by asking them to not give you money and make it safe immediately. Um, and asking for idea first of all, here’s that’s a target. Thank you for the hard question. She got it also, i will say. And this is it may sound like shameless self promotion, but it’s actually shameless self cross promotion. Because i hosted it here at the foundation center. I think was back in november. We hosted a panel was in november. Tracy ? Yeah. November. We hosted a panel of three grantmaker xero and one grant. Recipient one non-profit doing grassroots work and way we devoted the hour or ninety minutes to that exact subject. Howto build relationships with grantmaker tze how to break through the noise, how to get attention so you could i know you can go to tony martignetti dot com and search for foundation center and it will come up. I don’t know where you would have you confined in the tradition. I’m not tryingto get all the views or something, but i host of the panel right here and it was it was it was outstanding were ranged from social media, teo, other other forms of networking. You know, really it was just how to break through the noise and it was ninety minutes devoted to that. Sometimes i mean, don’t ask for cash, asked for ideas or ask, can we have a meeting in your office or things like that that are not cash, but that are, like at least get your name under their radar, would it ? The advice thing is really important because i remember the years i was a program officer. I, when organizations would act, actually treated me like a person that actually knew something. It had ideas, and not just an atm machine. It was really flattering, and it really worked, and i really appreciate it was really nice being invited to be part, like, you know, being a round table or speak about something i knew about it could be, you know what ? Talk about philantech in africa, talk about human rights, and africa is like that, and that did tend to establish relationships with many times. Did result in longer term grants and partnerships. Another question. All right, excellent. I got to know the candidates. Third row, no problem. My question relates, teo, the technology advancements that you’re making for information that we can search, but other industries are way ahead of the non-profit industry in using technology for efficiency like this whole discussion, rather than each small or medium sized non-profit doing the same exercise of chasing money is the foundation or other philanthropic organizations investigating how to bring technology efficiencies to the back office functions that we all have to go through. Well, you said back office, what do you mean, the grant grant seeking functions or with technology we should be able to fill out, say, a uniformed type of grant request submitted to a database and okay, so we’re folks in that house the same there’s, enormous amounts of cloud ofthis technology, but we were talking, focusing on grant yeah, you know, so i mean, their sales fortunately, i mean, there is, you know, blackbaud there are there are things that the non-profit sector used a lot in the back office, but what you’re talking about it the whole common grantwriting ligation thing, which is, like, the common, you know ? Common application of universities that’s been tried in many different parts of the u s and it started out a successful and then what happened is over time is that because remember, foundations are endowed institutions, right ? So they’re very independent in the idiosyncratic, which also is the flip side of what gives them the freedom to do a lot of innovation. They tended to attach appendices so you would have a common application. But then, you know, each foundation would put, like two or three appendices that were special too, you know, its requirements, and over time, the common application became basically, you know, a seam in two hundred fifty variations. I think what’s different now is theirs. The beginning of explorations about how to use of machine learning and the kind of systems you’re talking about. Two pre populate core information for grant proposals so non-profit doesn’t have toe reproduce it, you know, one hundred times one hundred applications. Again, i mentioned a partner bars guide star guy star has a a essentially a sort of transparency seal program where you upload the core information about your organization, all the kind of separate the requested. And it is. Possible than pour foundations and others to grab that information from a single source rather than requested on still not mean. But the possibility is being created. The thing is, we run sametz perrine mints with large competitions. There was the macarthur foundation one hundred million and change. They provided all the proposals to us, and we use machine learning on those two. Basically sort them in all sorts of different ways mathematics then try to begin to relate technology features of the proposals, too. The likelihood of being approved or not, i want to get through. Ah, question on youtube. Now we cannot provide a candy do our youtube listeners viewers, but we certainly can hear way only just have, like two more minutes or so. So with the question from mint on youtube from america or vista, they want to say these air very good questions, particularly one posed by core africa peace corps. And they do have a question for you. Tony, do we get any candy ? I just i see i am anticipated that question and i even already just said we cannot send candy to the er we could send. I can’t do that, i can be. Look at this panel. Yes. So the answer is yes, i i revise my and from what i said before, in anticipating your question now i thought through and i’ve decided, yes, you have enormous candy. Look, this panel so yes, buy-in all right, cool. Uh, well, you have just like, a minute or so left. All right, i’m goingto, uh i’m going to start to wrap up. I want to warn you live audience and youtube youtube giveaways also get your phone ready, poised and i want to thank our first live audience guests, of course, brad smith and anne marie or lagos from the foundation center here in new york city and from hispanics in philanthropy. Onda marie, all the way from california, you get candy, we got water, we have a pocket. Yes, you want it. You’re gonna make it gonna make a spectacle out of this. Yes. Look at this. We’ll get all the candy you’re getting. Absolutely. Please join me live when he’s thanking them. All right, here’s, your chance. You need your phone. The first five people, the text, they’re gonna win a copy of the book, which is called which the title is braided. Threads are historical overview of the non profit sector. All right, get your phones ready. I have the author on the show. Just about two or three weeks ago. Dr robert penna. It sort of ah, i mean, how did we get here ? Had had in today’s non-profit sector evolved through history on and it’s. Not a boring chronology, but he does start with queen elizabeth the first. And it takes us through to the outcomes movement, but not strictly chronological. Had religion play a part. How did the puritan settlers in the northeast and settlers in the south ? How did that evolved ? Um, how did they contribute to what our sector looks like today ? So the book is really cool. All right, so the number you need the number of course you need the number. Um, the number is two, five, two, five, one five. I can feel the tension in the room, and i feel it. I feel it coming through youtube. Seven, nine, eight, seven, two. Five, two, five one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven they said dr robert penny was a guest it’s a couple weeks ago if you go to tony martignetti dot com and you look up penna p e n n a of course you’ll find him, he’ll pop up and what do you texting ? Okay, the first five people to text, we’re gonna win a copy of the book you text npr and pr november papa romeo, npr for non-profit radio texted the first five people were in the book. Of course, you don’t want to make it, so i have no idea where the winners are. Congratulations, t the five people who have one, whether you’re live streaming with us on youtube or whether you’re right here next week, we’ll be back at the foundation center. We’re talking about community foundations again. We’ve got someone from the foundation center and we’ve got a panelist from the brooklyn community foundation foundation community foundations. How are they different ? How do you approach them ? We’re also going to talk about donorsearch advised fundez great. Look at the panel reaction. Yes, if you missed any part of today’s show, remember, this is podcasts or after have to accommodate the thirteen thousand podcast listeners. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wetness cps dot com by telus, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream, tony dahna em eh slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine that when you could do that, our creative finishers claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media’s buy-in mark silverman is our web guy. This music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Many thanks tracy councilman and susan jerome here at the foundation center, working with me since january to bring this perimeter with me next week for not proper radio. Big non-profit ideas for these either ninety five percent go out and be great. Thanks so much. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Nothing. You could. Hi, are you interested in blockchain technologies and cryptocurrencies ? Then tune in here on talk radio. Got n y c with me, david every friday, eleven a, m twelve p, m eastern time. As we answer your questions and interview, great guests live on internet radio on building the blockchain where you can catch the blockchain revolution. You’re listening to the talking alternative. Now, are you stuck in a rut ? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down ? Hi, i’m nor in sumpter, potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. 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