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Nonprofit Radio for May 2, 2022: The Other Tony Martignetti

 

Tony Martignetti: The Other Tony Martignetti

Am I encroaching on him or is he encroaching on me? I think we can find peaceful coexistence. The other Tony Martignetti is the individual and team coach at Inspired Purpose Coaching and author of the book, “Climbing the Right Mountain.”

 

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[00:02:20.14] spk_0:
mm hmm Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. We’re welcoming a new second sponsor fourth dimension technologies. Thank you, thank you very much for joining us for d. So glad to have you and I’m glad you’re with, I’d be thrown into Blefary rhinitis if you swelled me up with the idea that you missed this week’s show. The other tony-martignetti am I encroaching on him or is he encroaching on me? I think we can find peaceful coexistence the other tony-martignetti is the individual and team coach at inspired purpose coaching and author of the book climbing the right mountain. We’re gonna have some fun today on tony state too, managing those who fear fundraising, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c O. And by welcoming fourth dimension technologies I. T. Infra in a box. The affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Just like 3D but they go deeper. What a pleasure. What great fun what you know, it’s just amazing to welcome tony-martignetti this tony-martignetti is the trusted advisor coach experience, creator, author, podcast, host and speaker, he’s chief inspiration officer of inspired purpose coaching and author of the book climbing the right mountain Navigating the journey to an inspired life. His company is at inspired purpose coach.com and he’s at Tony-Martignetti one. tony-martignetti welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio

[00:02:31.14] spk_1:
I am so thrilled to be here tony It’s a, it’s truly amazing that we’ve finally made this happen. Um and this conversation is long overdue

[00:03:01.54] spk_0:
indeed, I think I dropped the ball for a while, I had your book and then I didn’t get back to you and tell you that I got the book and I feel bad about that, but we’re here, you’re here. Um I, you know, I, I felt bad when I was introducing you, you you have to be at tony-martignetti one, I feel bad about that. I’m sorry, I’m sorry I grabbed tony-martignetti Where were you? Where were you? Six or eight? Yeah, I don’t know when I started on twitter, where you been? Where were you? Yeah,

[00:03:02.51] spk_1:
just a little bit slow to the uptake and you had to get there first. It’s all good

[00:03:07.14] spk_0:
if it wasn’t for

[00:03:08.16] spk_1:
you. You know, if you weren’t such a good guy, I wouldn’t, I would be more upset, but you know, we can coexist and I’m thrilled to uh, to share the name with you.

[00:04:13.14] spk_0:
We certainly can. Oh you’re sharing your name with me. Oh I see, I see how it is. Okay, okay, now you first came uh into my awareness my, on my radar because folks were confusing us like they would post on linkedin Thanks to at tony-martignetti for having me on, on the podcast. And the first time I ignored it and then it kept happening. So you have a lot of guests who are grateful and then I realized okay there, then I then somebody said the uh you know the fireside, I’m sorry, no, the virtual fireside uh uh podcast and that’s all right. There’s a, there’s another guy out there who, who has stolen my name. So I had to reach out of course, of course. So you’re, you’re in the, you’re in the boston area, you’re in boston proper or they’re just

[00:04:19.42] spk_1:
in the suburbs, so just south of the city. But I spent most of my time in boston and Cambridge area working in a number different companies there

[00:04:29.54] spk_0:
and neither one of us is related to the martignetti liquor empire in the boston area or the Anthony martignetti of Prince Spaghetti fame,

[00:04:38.74] spk_1:
yep, no royalties coming my way.

[00:04:57.64] spk_0:
No, no, I’m chronically unconnected. Um the now that the Prince Spaghetti is dating probably both of us a bit, you have to be, you probably have to be over 45 or 52. Remember Prince Spaghetti commercials? Of course Wednesday was Prince Spaghetti day and Prince Spaghetti, I don’t think they make it anymore, at least I don’t see it. I don’t see it on the shelves.

[00:05:06.84] spk_1:
Yeah.

[00:05:22.24] spk_0:
tony brought them down, but Tony was the spokesman, he was the mother would be yelling out her boston window, Anthony Anthony martignetti and he would come running down little tony in fourth or fifth or sixth grade become running down the streets of boston, that was, that’s what I’m referring to or we’re referring to it, We’re talking about Prince Spaghetti.

[00:05:30.44] spk_1:
Yeah. In the classic north end of boston.

[00:05:52.24] spk_0:
Yes, that’s right in the north end of boston and then he would run up the steps to his mom’s apartment and she’d be in her house dress. The pasta pot is boiling and I think he came in with a bouquet of flowers or something to make up for being late for supper or something. I don’t, I think so. It’s good to meet you tony-martignetti

[00:05:55.44] spk_1:
here. It’s

[00:06:02.74] spk_0:
a little surreal. It’s interesting. Um so tell us about your, tell us about your coaching before we were gonna talk to someone about your book, but tell us about inspired purpose coaching please.

[00:06:31.14] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, so the first of all the coaching I do is something that it’s really my calling. It’s what I was called to do even though it took me a long time to get here. Um the the work I do is work with accomplished leaders and entrepreneurs um in all different types of industries who are feeling like there’s something missing. Um they’re feeling like they’re stuck and they want to find the connection to their inspired purpose, They want to lead with purpose and they want to find fulfillment in life and in work

[00:06:38.74] spk_0:
and these many industries include nonprofits. Do you have, have you coached or are you coaching focusing nonprofits?

[00:07:03.24] spk_1:
Yeah, nonprofits um you know, across many different tech organizations but from nonprofits for sure. I recently just got back from doing a training with a nonprofit organization in Ohio. Um, and it was really powerful to help them. Were there challenges.

[00:07:29.44] spk_0:
Alright, excellent. So, so the, The book, the book has universal appeal, but certainly, you know, the book is kind of, it’s personal and professional. I see it as more personal. Kind of see like 70, 30. I don’t know if that do you think I am? I am I being unfair to your book? Like I see it largely personal, but then it certainly has professional implications and, and ideas to, I don’t know, am I am I mischaracterizing? You can tell me, you can tell me if I’m messed up,

[00:07:33.27] spk_1:
I’ll be honest with you. I

[00:07:35.82] spk_0:
think, I think you’re absolutely

[00:08:21.34] spk_1:
Right. I think it’s more that 7030 because you know, the reality is you can’t separate the person from the leader in the organization. And I think there’s most of it has to do with how you’re showing up to life, not just how you’re showing up to work and definitely you want to make sure that we, you know, had that element of how are you showing up to work because it’s a big part of what we spend our time doing. We want to make sure that people think about what I want to do for the work that I’m doing, How am I leading my people if I’m leading people, um, there’s a lot of elements I tap into their, um, I think one of the big messages that I try to, to come across in the book is that it’s really about defining success on your own terms. Um and that it’s never too late to change the path you’re on.

[00:08:26.04] spk_0:
Yes. Success in your own terms,

[00:08:28.74] spk_1:
not the

[00:08:34.24] spk_0:
culture’s terms, not society’s terms, not your professions terms. Yeah,

[00:09:14.74] spk_1:
Yeah. And when I think it’s a great message, because when you think about, like, even as we think about non profit versus profit for profit organizations, oftentimes people think like, well I don’t want to work for a nonprofit, you know, that means that I’m not gonna make any money um or I’m not going to have an impact. Well, the reality is that it all depends on how you look at your role and it looks at how you craft your position. You know, you can do well and make enough money to live a good life. Um it doesn’t have to be an either or um you can do well and make a good living. Um it doesn’t have to be one or the other.

[00:09:30.54] spk_0:
Yes. Yes. And you make the point, we’ll, we’ll get a chance to flush it out, but you make the point that happiness doesn’t follow from success. Success flows from happiness.

[00:09:45.54] spk_1:
Yeah, Yeah. So choosing that path of like really wanting, you know, what is it that makes you happy to, you know, really understanding, you know, what’s going to bring life to your life um is important. I

[00:09:45.80] spk_0:
had plenty of time to read the book because I sat on it for a long time before before I remember to tell you that I got it. So I had plenty of time to go through it. Um All right, so you use this very interesting um I think clever metaphor of mountain

[00:10:00.99] spk_1:
climbing

[00:10:02.64] spk_0:
and it’s in the title of the book, explain, explain.

[00:10:11.54] spk_1:
Yeah well um I do enjoy climbing mountains in fact um when uh this summer I’m going to be climbing Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania. So

[00:10:17.68] spk_0:
yes you should be preparing for that right now, shouldn’t you?

[00:10:21.08] spk_1:
I am I am I am doing the preparations uh you know getting out hiking a lot and doing a lot of um just aerobic exercise because it just want to get you know used to the oxygen um at those different levels.

[00:10:35.84] spk_0:
How do you how do you train for the oxygen deprivation at however many tens? I don’t know how how is Kilimanjaro

[00:10:41.64] spk_1:
19,000

[00:10:42.72] spk_0:
19,000 ft? How do you train for that part?

[00:11:10.64] spk_1:
Um so you just have to continue to get out and do more hikes. I mean if I could get in, I’m not going to get up to 19,000 ft anywhere here locally. So I’m just doing a lot of different mountain climbs locally and what I’m trying to do is just get used to getting up to to elevation. Um more and more instead of staying at the consistent elevation all the time. So just you know getting used to it. It’s all it takes. You

[00:11:12.06] spk_0:
have to travel to you have to travel to some mountains to prepare for higher elevations.

[00:11:57.54] spk_1:
So the last mountain I traveled to was I went to Peru during the pandemic actually while I was finishing up my book which I’ll get into in a moment. Um I went to Machu Picchu in um in peru and that was the whole area of Cusco is actually at a pretty high altitude. I can’t remember the exact altitude of where you’re at above sea level there but it’s um you constantly have to be ready to have oxygen on your on hand in case you need it. But it’s just really about slowing down and breathing more intentionally. And um that’s part of the process is just getting used to that breathing slowly. Um And slowing down every step you take is intentional. So

[00:12:03.23] spk_0:
my goodness. When are you going to Tanzania

[00:12:06.38] spk_1:
in august so

[00:12:08.34] spk_0:
yeah

[00:12:09.09] spk_1:
it’s right around the corner.

[00:12:10.44] spk_0:
Good wishes. Good. I’m not gonna say good luck. You don’t really need luck but you know good wishes and your training and everything. I hope you stay healthy.

[00:12:16.81] spk_1:
What

[00:12:18.07] spk_0:
a feat.

[00:12:19.04] spk_1:
Yeah it’s gonna be amazing. I’ll keep you posted as to you know how it all turns out but

[00:12:22.66] spk_0:
okay you have you have a guide of course and you go with the team.

[00:12:27.72] spk_1:
Yeah. Yeah. Don’t

[00:12:29.06] spk_0:
climb alone. You make the point in the book, that’s part of your metaphors. Never you’re never climbing alone.

[00:14:37.84] spk_1:
Yes, that’s exactly it. And I think, you know, so just to come back to this idea of climbing, you know, I’ve always enjoyed climbing and one of the things that’s interesting is that there’s been some climbs that I’ve taken that are not so successful when you just go in without preparation, without having the right people alongside you and without having a map. Um I’ve literally done that when I was a teenager, but then you have these other clients where it’s more successful when you have that preparation, your partner, the right people and you see this this idea of like really knowing what you’re getting yourself into without really having everything all mapped out in terms of like specifics. Um but the preparation is key. So the whole idea about the book is climbing the right mountain is about really being on this journey to, you know, see the mountain as your career and the path you’re on and when you get to the top, are you going to be satisfied with what you’ve created for yourself? And often times, you know, I’ve talked to a lot of different leaders and myself included um gotten to the top of their mountain based on what they thought that they wanted and they realized it wasn’t what they wanted. The view is not what they expected and they’ve had to sacrifice a lot of things to get their, you know, their health, their well being, their time with family, friends. Um, and it’s unfortunate because you know, when you have that, that singular focus of like this is what I need to do to get to the top and then you get there and you feel like let down, um, you want to have a sense of what can I do now? And so, um, the book is really there for us to be able to think a different way. And if you’re still on the path and thinking yourself like, oh gosh, am I on the right path at all? There’s some thoughts around how can you stop, pause and take another look and see what else is possible? Am I really climbing on the right path for me right now? And sometimes it’s not about leaving your, your career. It’s not about, hey, you know, I should be leaving my job and go somewhere else. Sometimes just looking at your job from a different lens, just changing perspective a little bit,

[00:16:25.54] spk_0:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications, they do content creation and content management. Let’s focus on the management part. Your blog. Is it out of date? Have you got a resource page whether it’s your content or the content of others that you’re sharing? And is that thing that resource pages out of date? You’ve got resources from like 2018, even 20, years old, you’ve probably got more current content. Let’s get it up on the resource page, let’s get it up on the blog. Turn to can help you not only with the content creation, creating all these um communications, all these messages, but with the management also and keep that management current. You don’t want to blog, that’s even six months old, right, where the most recent stuff is six months old. No, you don’t want that turn to can help you turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o Now, back to the other tony-martignetti Although for you, it was a major and sudden job career change. You know, what, what did that, what did that before? You know, you can welcome to tell the story of, you know, the incident, I’m not gonna I’m not gonna beg, you know, I’m not gonna spoil it. But what, what was that feeling like for you that you objectively, I guess to outsiders had succeeded, but you still have this feeling of, of, of longing and emptiness.

[00:17:40.14] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s exactly you know, I love the way you put it there because that’s exactly how it felt. You know, I had, I had had outward success, people saw me as someone who was really doing well, I was working as a finance and strategy professional in the biotech industry. Um I had done a lot of successful things on the outside, but there was a sense of something missing. There was an emptiness inside and I know I’m not alone in this feeling. There’s a lot of people who feel this way in their navigation through their own path. But I got to this place where I was sitting in a boardroom and feeling like I don’t want to do this anymore. I was looking around the room and seeing a lot of people checked out, you know, looking at their cell phones and just listening to these leaders who are toxic in nature, they were more concerned about their own image and how they were showing up. And as I was looking around, I had this feeling and that I didn’t want to do this anymore. I didn’t want to be here anymore and collect a paycheck and just show up um that there’s got to be a different way for leaders to inspire others and to change the way that they’re showing up in the room. And so I decided to to leave the room um to walk out.

[00:17:43.04] spk_0:
And I said to myself, yeah.

[00:18:44.24] spk_1:
And I just I said at that point that I’m going to leave the room to change the room in some way. I don’t know how I just know that it’s not this and that’s what really was the the the point that really flipped for me and created um the path that I’ve been on of the past 4.5 years. Um and you know, when I talk to people about this, sometimes they’re like, well, is that the path that I should be taking? Like, no, it’s it’s not, it was for me because that’s what I had to go through to get to where I wanted to go. But ultimately, if you can to do small experiments along the way or kind of maybe take small bets and not leave, you know, your day job, if you will, then that’s always better. But if this is what it takes for you to actually make that movement, then do that. This is a good it’s a good path. If if it’s the only thing that’s gonna get you in motion, I

[00:18:55.34] spk_0:
like that idea that you have to leave the room to change the room. I’ve never heard that before? Maybe that’s common. Uh but you do, it changes the room and it changes your, that changes the room you’re gonna be in next.

[00:20:25.24] spk_1:
Yeah. And I think it also was a was a big moment of being so fierce, so much, so much fear, so much uncertainty for me. I didn’t know what I was doing at that point because I knew hardly that there was something coming up for me, but I then had to kick off this process of understanding, well, who am I really to be doing this? Like, like the imposter syndrome that I had to go through to really experience this, like building a business around this, am I gonna do this on my own is just gonna be you know, coaching is what I ended up getting into, but I had to like figure out well how is anyone gonna want to buy coaching for me if I don’t have a track record of being a coach, So there’s a lot of that that comes into place um but slowly but surely I built the confidence one conversation at a time and also by getting to know who I was um by exploring myself as I say oftentimes my tagline inspiration through honest conversation and those conversations are not always with other people, they start with yourself, really understanding who am I, what makes me unique, you know, what is it that I am wired to do? Um and that starts by getting really quiet and listening to yourself answer those

[00:20:26.84] spk_0:
questions and what and

[00:20:28.09] spk_1:
to answer those questions, the important ones,

[00:20:31.94] spk_0:
essentially helping yourself before you can help others. Yeah

[00:20:34.78] spk_1:
exactly.

[00:20:44.54] spk_0:
Uh coaching yourself before you can coach others, Finding yeah, finding yourself before you can help others find you know, their their right path. Um yeah, you talk, you talk something about this is related self leadership,

[00:20:50.84] spk_1:
what’s

[00:20:58.74] spk_0:
this, what’s this idea of self leadership? Oh by the way, wait, I wanted to ask you first, did anybody yell at you when you walked out of the boardroom? They yell martignetti martignetti get back here or don’t ever come back or anything dramatic like that or

[00:21:20.44] spk_1:
no, it’s ironic that it didn’t uh it was more like looks around the room a little bit like what is he doing? Uh it’s not like I made it some more massive thing and after when I um when I did leave, I came back and I basically said to them, I said, look, you know, I made the decision that I’m, I’m done and this is what I’m doing. Um and they said, okay, you know, it is what it is. You know, they just kind of accepted it, what else, what else are they gonna do? All right? Um but the, you know, jokingly I would say the person who was yelling at me most of all was probably my, my brothers and sisters and

[00:21:38.71] spk_0:
thinking

[00:21:40.04] spk_1:
like what are you doing?

[00:21:42.00] spk_0:
I think

[00:22:33.84] spk_1:
that brings up a good point, which is to say um the cost of your new life is your old life. You have to um to kind of shed the old beliefs that you have the old thinkings of who people think you are and you move into this new place and what that means. You have to sometimes, you know, realize that you’re the only one who’s going to truly know who you are becoming. There’s gonna be a lot of people who don’t understand what you’re going through. Um and that’s okay, they’ll eventually come along, they’ll figure it out, but you have to be okay with being in that raw state, the we often call liminal space that is between the known and the unknown. Um and you become the person who’s more expert at who you’re becoming because you’re going through it yourself,

[00:22:34.73] spk_0:
its its vulnerability to

[00:22:36.65] spk_1:
Yeah, yeah,

[00:24:22.64] spk_0:
willing to be vulnerable to family colleagues who you know who you’re departing, you know, whatever. Yeah. You know, you said I have a little bug a boo about it is what it is and I think in this case you’re being modest, but uh because it is what you made it, you know, as I don’t know if it was a conversation with the boss or you know, whatever, but it’s not just, it didn’t just happen, You know like the weather, it is what it is, we can’t control that. But 99% of the time I think people use it is what it is. Either they’re like in your case you’re being modest. I think you you caused that you caused that to happen. You made a conscious choice in the moment and left the room and and followed through on it. So you you you caused the change um and a lot of times I think uh aside from modesty at absolves people of responsibility, you know, it is what it is. Well, no, actually it is what you made it or what we together made it maybe there is a shared responsibility accountability, but I uh I’m I’ve I’ve I’ve said it a million times it is what it is, but just like in the past few months or so. I’ve been drilling down on that because it’s so common and very little is what is what it is. The vast majority of times. It’s what someone has made it, it might be some industry, it might be some political party, there might be some person, it might be some group of persons, it might be you, it might be me, it might be us together. Yeah. You know, it is what it is. Uh absolves accountability. So you’re, you know, you’re a thinker, you’re a thinker. So I want to share my, maybe you’ll think about what I think about. Maybe

[00:25:45.64] spk_1:
not. I love what you said and I think it’s what’s so cool about it is that it’s like, it is what it is, has to be um, you know, proceeded followed by, um by and what now and what now. So if you say that, okay, it is what it is. Well, okay, but there’s gonna be some action that follows it that makes it meaningful, makes it meaningful that you’re going to take some action that’s going to like say, okay, if that’s what the existing paradigm is and you’re willing to shift out of it, that’s what means that you did something about it to actually make a difference. Um, to shift out of what it what it is, what it is, which oftentimes we’re stuck in these environments that have become, you know, self perpetuating if you will. Um, and then what you do is you step out and say, nope, not me, I’m not going to stay in this environment any longer, so I’m gonna do something about it, I’m going to move out of that environment and I’m gonna create something different, but it’s about taking action and that action then has follow on action and before you know what you’re doing something different, even if that action is not perfect, gosh, like that, you know, the first step you take could be the wrong step, but the fact that you’re taking a step is um, it’s a sign that you’re, that you’re ready for something different, you’re ready to make a move into a direction, that is not the one that you’re in right now

[00:25:54.74] spk_0:
and then you are taking responsibility. You know, you’re, you’re, you are sort of flipping that and you’re, you’re saying without saying it, you’re conscious of, you know, it is what I’ve made

[00:26:04.76] spk_1:
it, my

[00:26:13.24] spk_0:
life is what I’ve made in my career, whatever, you know, whatever macro or micro um aspect, you know, you may be focusing on, if you’re within your existence, taking responsibility for it, it is what I have made it

[00:26:21.74] spk_1:
now,

[00:26:46.44] spk_0:
as you’re saying now, I can take an action, take a tiny action, I can take a big action and walk out of the room I can take a small action, start investigating, start talking to other people in other careers. You know? Whatever whatever it is, you’re you’re you’re taking responsibility. So that’s my little that’s my tirade on it is what it is. You know, I want folks to take responsibility or or give responsibility or or or responsibility or blame or credit wherever it’s do whatever it is,

[00:26:52.05] spk_1:
if

[00:26:57.54] spk_0:
it’s yourself, it’s a team, if someone else, you know, very little is it is what it is like I said, the weather.

[00:28:09.24] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, I’m going to take it a step further because, you know, as we often say, the words we use, you know, really, um creates our world and the word that comes to mind for me now, especially when it comes to self leadership, is that it’s taking ownership, um ownership of your path and if you continue to accept it is what it is, then what’s happened is you’re stuck in this, like this path of like, whatever, you know, comes to me, I’m just going to accept it and live within it, live it, live within the existing paradigm. But if I take ownership of my path, take ownership of my life, lead myself. Then what happens is I can own the decisions, good or bad, whatever happens next, I could fail, I could win. Um and either way I can be proud that I took ownership of whatever happens next. And that’s what leadership is about. Self leadership especially is about, is really saying that I choose to take ownership of the path forward as opposed to just accept what is. That’s

[00:28:26.04] spk_0:
one of your, one of your guide posts. You know there you have uh you have eight guide posts in the book and we’re not gonna have time to get to all of them. So you know, folks are just gonna have to buy the book. You got to buy the book. That’s the way that’s the way to get the full content. You know, we can we can we can tease you with with ideas here. But you know, one of your guide posts is connect with the leader within

[00:28:31.44] spk_1:
Yes,

[00:28:37.04] spk_0:
that’s the self leadership that we just talked about. Another one is check your surroundings.

[00:28:40.04] spk_1:
Mm hmm.

[00:28:45.64] spk_0:
Those around you. The influences around you. Talk about that. Check your, Check your surroundings.

[00:30:25.94] spk_1:
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s so important to think about that. Like Oftentimes, you know, you think that um you know, the environment that you’re in is um It is you know that you just show up and the people around you are going to support you or they’re gonna, you know, bring you to where you are. What the surroundings we have. They create this uh container for um Either supporting us or defeating us. And so we need to make sure we’re very careful about is surrounding us with the type of people who are going to help us to thrive. Not just survive. Um you know, i in the book, there’s a there’s a conversation about how, like, you know, in India in Delhi, um there’s this idea that like, you know, there’s a lot of pollution, there’s no doubt about it. There’s a ton of pollution. And the people of Delhi have really come to this place where they’ve just been able to adapt into living in the world of their bodies have adapted to the pollution, but the reason why they’ve done that is because they have no other choice but to adapt because that’s what their environment is. But when you make a conscious choice to say like, well, I don’t want to be in that environment. If I take myself out of the environment, I don’t want to adapt to a toxic environment. I want to adapt to an environment. In fact, maybe even shape the environment so that I’m in a place where I’m surrounded by people who helped me to become something better than who I am. So that’s surrounding is important. If you surround yourself with people who support you, who allow you to be free to speak your mind, then you’re gonna really take yourself to the next level as opposed to holding yourself back.

[00:30:50.04] spk_0:
You spend time with people who bring you up uplift you not, you know, toxic personalities, negative personalities. You know, that that really that really can hurt it impacts, even though you’re, you know, you you you may even recognize it as toxic, but it’s still you know, I don’t know, you know, to me, I would say like it tears you down. It brings you down it, it can hurt you

[00:31:04.04] spk_1:
absolutely. And sometimes you don’t even recognize it. Sometimes we don’t

[00:31:04.78] spk_0:
recognize that we’ve

[00:31:19.44] spk_1:
become so immune to it that like because we’ve built these um these immunities to seeing what it is that we’re living in. It’s like the fish and water, right? We don’t know where in water we’re just in it. Um so it takes someone else to tell you, hey, do you realize what you’re living in right now. Do you realize the environment that you’re in is not supporting who you really want to be and that’s why a coach or mentor somebody who can can look at your situation and help you to see you know how it’s not currently serving you and how it could be different.

[00:31:49.84] spk_0:
I should have asked you to explain the purpose behind the guide posts before I story we started talking about the guard post. You’re stuck with a lackluster host tone, you know, there’s no way there’s no way around it. So you know, I apologize for that.

[00:31:58.77] spk_1:
I mean

[00:32:11.04] spk_0:
you could take over it is tony-martignetti non profit radio you’re you’re you’re you’re you’re not the aptly named host, but you know, you could be you could be you have the potential to be host of All right. So the guide posts, what’s the whole what’s the whole point behind uh the eight guide posts that you spend a lot of time talking about in the book.

[00:33:29.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean the guy poster, there are two really kind of set your path to getting to where you want to go to create a journey to, you know, connect with what you want to accomplish in your life, to be on a journey that will connect you to the type of, you know, fulfillment that you’re looking for. Um I mean, you know what I think is most important is to just the pause, the initial, you know, let’s step back and look at what’s possible. And as you get to those different posts they build on each other. You know, as you said, there’s this, you know, connecting with self leadership and you know, seeing that, you know, whether or not the environment is right for you, but also thinking about legacy, what you think is so important. And when you start to think about like what do I want my legacy to be, who I want to be remembered for? Um and that’s important. I think it’s important to think about those things because sometimes we just get our heads so down and we just focus and we just need to step away from it and say what else is important here, what else do I want for my life and what do I want people to know about me um in the end

[00:33:34.14] spk_0:
and this is all to help folks climbed the right mountain.

[00:33:35.86] spk_1:
Exactly

[00:33:36.41] spk_0:
for them for them.

[00:33:37.73] spk_1:
Yes yes for them so key

[00:37:48.83] spk_0:
it’s time for a break. Fourth dimension technologies join me in welcoming four D. Their I. T. Solution is I. T. Infra in a box. It’s budget friendly and holistic. You pick what you need and leave the rest behind. I thi assessment multi factor authentication, other security cost analysis, help desk and more choose what’s right for your I. T. Situation and for your budget. Fourth dimension technologies tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. It’s time for Tony’s take two managing those who fear fundraising. We’re probably talking about board members or potentially other volunteers. You could have other volunteer leaders conceivably helping you with your fundraising. Well I’m not talking about professional fundraisers. You know if you hired a professional fundraiser who fears fundraising you made a big mistake. Cut bait. It’s time to let that person go or find another job for them. The professional fundraiser who hates fundraising, fears fundraising. But uh so that’s that we’re putting that aside. It’s probably not a professional. So the volunteers who fear fundraising. My first advice is help them in there fundraising endeavors in their soliciting, help them with training, certainly staff support role playing assuring them that they don’t have to solicit alone that there will always be either a staff member or another volunteer with them. So they’ll never be alone doing it. Help them see that they wouldn’t be in this, you know, all by themselves. But if they’re still resistant to soliciting, okay, then we’re gonna take them off solicitation and find something else fundraising related for them to do. Like thanking folks board. If its board members were talking about what donor would not love to get a handwritten note or a phone call from a board member, purely a thank you. No more. No, nothing more than that. Just to thank you. Why do you love our work? Those are such easy conversations. So thanking could be hosting, hosting an event, small event, perhaps in their home, maybe some other venue that that maybe their office club, whatever, hosting a small event for you, introducing you to folks, bringing their networks to your organization. So there’s three other ways that those who fear fundraising because they think it’s, it’s soliciting can be brought into the, into the fold more comfortably showing them that there are things that are not soliciting, but that are still valuable around fundraising. And then the third, if they’re not willing to do either one or two, then you gotta move past these folks. They cannot be obstacles to those who don’t fear fundraising, who are embracing it, who recognize how important a role it is for them as as key volunteers. So you gotta get past these folks, they, we can’t have them as obstacles to other people. So those are my uh, my ideas around helping those who fear fundraising, helping you manage those folks That is Tony’s take two, we’ve got boo koo but loads more time for the other tony-martignetti with tony-martignetti I love that name. The the other other guide posts I want to talk about be ready to adapt.

[00:38:39.32] spk_1:
Yes, Yeah. I mean I kind of, I think I already kind of talked a little about this, but there’s this idea that like, you know, we have to be able to think differently about how, you know, each thing that comes at us, like every time we are moving to a new job or a new place, we’re constantly being faced by change. So we need to be ready to adapt. Twitter’s on the horizon so that the idea that, you know, we need to have that skill set built into us around, you know, what else is possible for me? What else do I need to build into my path that allows me to be able to adapt to that change. And I talked about that, being able to adapt to a toxic environment or being able to adapt to a positive environment that still applies here when you can adapt in a more positive way to make a big difference as to how you navigate

[00:38:50.52] spk_0:
and how does that impact leadership then if you are, if you are leading others.

[00:39:45.22] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean when you’re leading others and you’re able to show them your modeling the way you’re helping them to see that how they can adapt is is really how you’re showing them, Hey, things didn’t go according to plan. Let’s pivot in a different way, Let’s move a different direction. Let’s, you know, figure out what we need to be able to change. You know, this particular initiative to something else like during the pandemic, there’s been so much adaptation that businesses have had to take and leaders have had to take because well we weren’t already for, you know, leading in a virtual space from the get go. So we had to get ready for a lot different changes. How are we going to communicate how we’re going to connect with each other? How are we going to just get the business to continue to operate? So there’s been a lot of that, you know, how do we become more adaptable as humans?

[00:40:17.11] spk_0:
I think a lot of that goes to vulnerability to, you know, being willing to, you know, as you said, you know, pivot, try something different. Um, you know, whether it’s the pandemic or just, you know, I don’t know, some event or some fundraising campaign keeping for our listeners in the nonprofit space, um being willing to be vulnerable. I think vulnerability is, is so valuable for for a leader.

[00:40:19.91] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it really is, it’s something that nowadays, um we’ve come a long way from from what was um the way leaders were, that’s still

[00:40:42.71] spk_0:
sort of the Jack welch general motors or general Electric, pardon me, G yeah I’m the leader, follow me, you know the omniscient, I’m the present, you know, grab, grab, grab my belt loop and hang on.

[00:41:45.11] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean I think with when it comes to the you know vulnerable and I know it’s a very often nowadays it’s very popular word to be using the vulnerable leader but it’s not just about being vulnerable, it’s about being true to the people around you being you know, transparent and reel. Um when you’re showing up to the people around you and saying like I don’t always know the path forward, I don’t always have to have the answers and I’m okay with being wrong, you know, there’s this element that they will respect you more. It’s actually like a paradox in a sense because we’re so used to having the leaders having all the answers. But when leaders are courageous enough that they can put themselves out there and say I’m going to lead us forward with your help to move us in the right direction, even if I don’t have the answers, that’s scary, it’s scary to think that like you’re gonna just put yourself out there and it’s like the person who goes on stage to present and there’s petrified

[00:41:47.31] spk_0:
of

[00:42:29.00] spk_1:
doing it but they do it anyways because you know what they believe and the fact that they that what they’re doing is important and what they, what, you know what their company’s mission and what they’re wanting to contribute is important. So they do it and they do it with all the fears included, everything included, the impostor syndrome. They do it anyways. Um and when people see that they resonate with that because they say, wow, now that’s a leader, that’s someone who’s despite of all his shortcomings, despite of the things that his or hers um shortcomings or things that are holding them back. He goes forth anyways, That’s pretty

[00:42:34.90] spk_0:
cool. Yeah, yeah. Um get your bearings and you know, you’re talking about the game versus gap thinking,

[00:44:03.39] spk_1:
Yeah, I love this particular one because this is one that I think I tap into a lot for myself myself personally, which is that we we constantly thinking about like, oh, you know, why am I not where I want to be in my life, where why am I not where you know, where I want to be in my professional career. Um and even when we do set a goal, there’s this expectation that we should be like, you know, maniacally focused on getting to that goal. But the reality is that’s all about gap thinking it’s like the gap between where I am to where I want to be, but when we focus on the game thinking you can really look back and say, well where have I come from? You know, what are the gains that I’ve, that I’ve created on this path and how can I really use that as the fuel to move forward. It’s like you appreciate the journey that has gotten you here and then it also gets you thinking all I need to do is continue to take those small steps and look at the small gains that will, that will take to move from here to the next place, to the next place to the next place before you know that gap that you would have been looking at is gone. So at change in perspective, gain versus gap will get you thinking out of that little, you know, the place of, of lack of scarcity and into the place of abundance. Mhm

[00:44:04.19] spk_0:
How far how far I’ve come?

[00:44:06.08] spk_1:
Yeah, how far I’ve come

[00:44:07.78] spk_0:
versus how far I need to go. Yeah.

[00:44:30.39] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean it’s funny when you’re connecting this back to the whole mountain analogy, which is so true. Oftentimes, you know, that’s the, makes all the difference when you look and you’re saying like, oh my gosh, like we’ve got a long ways to go, then that can be really defeating. Um but when you look back and you say, oh my gosh, how far we’ve come, that that’s game and it really makes you feel like appreciative and like almost proud of, you know, wow, all we have to do is just now we’re we’re three quarters away there another quarter to go.

[00:44:43.59] spk_0:
Mhm You mentioned the journey

[00:44:45.59] spk_1:
and

[00:44:46.08] spk_0:
you make the point that happiness is the journey. It’s not a destination.

[00:44:53.09] spk_1:
Yeah,

[00:44:54.14] spk_0:
talk about that.

[00:46:10.78] spk_1:
Yeah, I think it’s so important that people are in this place of trying to enjoy even the struggles that they’re on in their path of creating who they want to be, who they’re, who they’re destined to be. You know, there’s this element of like, you know, seeing the growth as just something that is, you know, enjoyable. It’s something that they can be happy about um if you’re constantly feeling like you’re missing something, then your life is going to be full of a lot more struggle. The struggle itself becomes even harder because you’re constantly feeling like your urine lack mode. Um So when you come from a place of, I’m happy now and this is who I am. I’m already the person who I want to be, All they have to do now is continue to, to do the steps to fulfill some of the pieces that will lead me to the next thing that I’m, I’m after. It’s almost like you the, you know, to connect to this might lose some people, but the idea that like everything you ever wanted is already within you, you just have to do the process of physically creating it in the world

[00:46:26.78] spk_0:
Alright let’s make sure we didn’t lose anybody. That sounds like, I think you have a quote in the book, You quote someone to, to that effect, isn’t it that everything you have is already within you for everything you want is already everything you want is already within you. I think that’s one of the quotes you

[00:46:30.81] spk_1:
have to have a lot of quotes

[00:46:43.58] spk_0:
at the start of a chapter. Alright, so so say more about it. What what what what are we, you know, what are we, what are we missing if we’re not realizing happiness in our journey?

[00:46:55.18] spk_1:
Yeah. We may be thinking to ourselves that like I could, I’m not being the person I want to be. So I’m gonna use an example. So the example I often think about is the person since today’s marathon monday um in uh in boston we have um the boston.

[00:47:05.05] spk_0:
Yeah,

[00:48:00.37] spk_1:
yeah. Um so which is kind of a momentous considering the fact that the past two years um there hasn’t been one. Um but the the whole idea is that if someone says that I want to be, I want to run a marathon but um I, you know, I don’t, I’ve never run a marathon before. So they had the sense of like, well and how do I do that and how do I become a marathoner? Well, the first thing you can do is start thinking about yourself as being a marathon runner. I am a marathon runner. So internally you start to create your programming to say I am the person that I want to be. And when you do that, you start to think, well what are the things that a person who’s a marathon runner do? How do they act, who do they, who are they being and how can I be that person now? So when you connect with this idea of like, of being that person now, even though you haven’t still haven’t run, I haven’t taken a step yet, since I’ve said that um what you’re starting to think about

[00:48:12.08] spk_0:
it, you should be out there, you’re supposed to be aerobic training, Why are you not in this marathon? Seriously? Come on.

[00:48:29.37] spk_1:
But but the reality is, it’s like, you know, when someone makes it makes a commitment like that or says that they want to do that, the first thing they can do is start to think and act like it’s already who they are.

[00:48:31.77] spk_0:
Mhm.

[00:48:47.37] spk_1:
Like if you say to yourself, I want to be this person who’s contributed this in this way, or a person who is kind and um and thoughtful and such and such, so what would a kind and thoughtful person be doing? What would they do? What would a marathon or I mean, just come back to the other analogy, what would a marathon only be doing while they train every day? They don’t eat snacks, like they don’t eat junk food on a regular basis, you know, they do certain things, they act in a certain way, if that’s who I wanna be, that’s who I am,

[00:49:02.07] spk_0:
then

[00:49:04.07] spk_1:
I got to be that way. Um it’s, it becomes like a programming, it’s a place to come from, not a place to go

[00:49:09.05] spk_0:
to

[00:49:24.67] spk_1:
and that same thing is about, you know, if you’re saying that I want to be happy, then don’t say that I’ll be happy when it’s a place to go to, it’s not a destination, it’s a place to come from, so I’m happy now. All I need to do is to do the things that keep me happy, make me happy,

[00:49:36.47] spk_0:
awesome. Alright. Mhm. What would you like to talk about tone? I

[00:49:39.07] spk_1:
uh it

[00:49:43.97] spk_0:
is tony-martignetti non profit radio you could be the aptly named host, so no, uh I mean I have some other stuff to ask, but what do you want to talk about your your book or your practice?

[00:49:51.37] spk_1:
Well

[00:49:51.81] spk_0:
we can talk about the practice

[00:50:13.96] spk_1:
a bit because I think um one of the things that I found interesting about um coaching with people over the past few years especially is this element of like really wanting to get unstuck, especially when they’re, you know, they’re challenging their business and they’re feeling like uh how do I get to that next place, How do I get that next? You know, past this hump that I’m in um so maybe we can talk a little bit about that,

[00:50:20.56] spk_0:
okay.

[00:52:05.75] spk_1:
Um so one of the things that usually comes to mind and I like sharing this model called, I call it, expand your vision narrows your focus. And the reason why I call it that is because oftentimes the stuck nous that we feel is because we don’t, we’re not seeing beyond what’s right in front of us, We’re just seeing the wall. And so oftentimes, um, when I’m talking with people, I’m getting them to think about new possibilities. Um, what else is possible for me. And so I’ll have them do is I’ll have them say I expand your vision means like just really stepping away from that wall and create some more options. Um, and don’t feel as though you can leave anything out just like completely brainstorm, think differently, you know, what’s on the periphery of who you are, what you’re doing, what your business is up to. Um, and even when you think about it from the nonprofit, like where are the things that like if we’ve only been doing traditional things, how can we get nontraditional? What are the non traditional ideas? So just put them all out there and when you start to explore those different options and you say, okay, well this is the one that I really think is interesting. It hasn’t, it’s intriguing us. Then you narrow your focus and that’s the next part of this, which is to say this is what we’re gonna really spend our time and effort in and all those other things, they just kind of go away and they become not important right now. It’s like you say no to everything else. And this becomes the primary focus of the next move forward until you’ve investigated it. And you find whether or not it’s not the path, if it is the path and fantastic, but it’s like an iterative process, you can kind of say, expand narrow, expand, narrow until you figure out the path that’s really gonna mean a lot for you as a business.

[00:52:22.65] spk_0:
It sounds like the inspired workplace, or at least it reminds me of inspired workplace that you talked about in the book.

[00:53:13.85] spk_1:
Yeah. In a sense, Yes, but it’s a there’s a lot more to the inspired workplace because it’s more than just getting them to think like, okay, you know, you show up in your, you know, going to create an inspired workplace, it definitely gets new possibilities going and gets them thinking differently. But with the inspired workplace, what if I usually tap into there is I want to make sure that people understand that, that you can make failures and you can allow people to really feel safe in the process of doing that, because, you know, constantly there’s gonna be people who are feeling like, can I really share that idea, can I really get out there and do this so like this, we have to make sure that in the process of expanding our vision and narrowing of focus, we also create that safety and trust that allows people to feel as though I can do all this because if you don’t have that foundation, it makes it really hard for people to do that.

[00:53:19.75] spk_0:
That goes back to vulnerability to

[00:53:22.18] spk_1:
absolutely

[00:53:22.99] spk_0:
willingness to

[00:53:23.76] spk_1:
be

[00:53:34.15] spk_0:
alright. Um is your is your official name on your birth certificate? Is it Anthony or

[00:53:34.55] spk_1:
is it is it

[00:53:35.53] spk_0:
is so you use Anthony like when you open a bank account or something like that?

[00:53:39.45] spk_1:
You

[00:53:40.11] spk_0:
do? Yeah, I do too.

[00:53:44.95] spk_1:
Yeah. All

[00:54:05.54] spk_0:
right. Um you want to leave us with Some, I mean you’re pretty, you’re you’re pretty inspiring. Overall we’ll be talking almost almost 50 minutes. You’re it’s hard for me to say leave us with inspiration. You’ve been inspiring. Um but uh I know you want to give it a shot, give it see if you can bundle all your inspiration into uh into a couple of sentences of closing please.

[00:54:12.30] spk_1:
Yeah, I’ll get I’ll get a good closing for you.

[00:54:15.50] spk_0:
So

[00:54:49.14] spk_1:
the one thing that I often tell people is if you’re feeling like you have lost the spark in your life in your work, the best thing you can do is look for the signs of the things that are that do spark you up and do more of that. You know when I when you look at the week ahead, if there’s nothing on your calendar that you look forward to look for, put something on your calendar at least one thing that will get you going that will make you look forward to the week ahead and that is a starting point. You want to make sure they have something to look forward to.

[00:55:00.04] spk_0:
tony-martignetti chief inspiration officer at inspired purpose coaching inspired purpose

[00:55:01.18] spk_1:
coach

[00:55:07.34] spk_0:
dot com and he’s at tony-martignetti one. Sorry about that, don’t

[00:55:09.54] spk_1:
what

[00:55:28.94] spk_0:
a pleasure. Great. Find your over. That’s good. Yeah, we don’t dwell on these things. Right. Of course you’d be the, you’ll be the last person to be still piste off Eight years later that you didn’t get at tony-martignetti that would defeat everything. We just talked about antithetical to your entire being anyway, so what a pleasure to have you Tony. Thank you very much. Really enjoyed the same

[00:55:32.13] spk_1:
here. Thank you so much.

[00:55:35.74] spk_0:
Next week We’ll get back to our 2022 NTCC

[00:55:39.02] spk_1:
coverage

[00:56:46.74] spk_0:
if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. I feel bad about that too. You can’t, you can’t have tony-martignetti I missed this guy’s life up. I messed it up but I was, I was first of the game, what can I tell you, I was responsive by turning to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission and by fourth dimension technologies I T infra in a box, the affordable tech solution for nonprofits. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez marc Silverman is our web guide and this music is by scott stein, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty be with Me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the The other 95%. Go out and be great, mm hmm, mm hmm.

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[00:00:10.04] spk_0:
mm hmm. Hello and

[00:01:59.04] spk_1:
welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast and I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of paragon on my Asus if you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show The 40 laws of nonprofit impact, we can’t hit them all. But that’s the title of Derek Timmermans book. He’s got advice like give to gain higher with ruthless selectivity win while you’re sleeping and eat last and get dirty. We’ll talk about these and other ideas. His company is Sparrow nonprofit solutions On Tony’s take two 50% off planned giving accelerator ends next week. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C o. It’s a pleasure to debut on nonprofit radio Derek Timmerman, he is founder of Sparrow nonprofit Solutions, a nationwide consulting firm helping nonprofits maximize their world changing impact. Before Sparrow he was a management consultant at Mckinsey and Company and the U. S. Army intelligence officer with two combat deployments to Iraq. The company is at Sparrow N. S. That’s Sparrow november. Sierra in military talk dot com. Sparrow N. S dot com. Derek Timmerman. Welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:02:01.69] spk_2:
tony it’s a pleasure to be with you. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:06.84] spk_1:
It’s my pleasure to have you. Thank you and thank you for your

[00:02:08.64] spk_2:
service. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Absolutely.

[00:02:11.03] spk_1:
You’re one of our West point alumni as well

[00:02:14.58] spk_2:
that’s right that’s right Yeah so any navy fans out there? I’m sorry about that. But uh,

[00:02:22.44] spk_1:
Um, yeah, I’ve been there. I have a nephew who graduated there. I think he was 94. Okay, 90 for the year to score something. You have a little, a little jingle that goes with every year. I think he was like

[00:02:34.97] spk_2:
we do, Yeah. And an impressive that you know that, so mine is uh, pride and all we do 2002. We were actually the bicentennial class. So the thing was founded in 18 02. So they called us the golden Children all the way through that because it was celebrated that we were the 2/100 anniversary class of, of West Point. So Pride and all we do. 02.

[00:03:05.14] spk_1:
Okay, outstanding. And you just made me realize my, my nephew is much younger than that. So it ended with a four, I would say 94. It was probably 2,004,000. So what I was wearing, he’s, he’s much younger than you and

[00:03:10.74] spk_2:
me, which, which means, which means he might have been there when I was there and I as a, as a senior or junior, I might have given him a hard time. So apologies if he’s listening and if, if I, if I made him do push ups or something, I don’t know.

[00:03:27.94] spk_1:
All right. We’ll shout him out. Jacob, Jacob Weber. Okay. Yeah. No, I, I, and I witnessed, what are the, uh, I witnessed some of the the rehearsals for a day a day is the very first day right acceptance or a day. Is that the very first day that the new cadets, the first year

[00:04:04.34] spk_2:
cadets register now? You’re really stretching my the other day reception day. That’s what it is. Yeah, blocked it out. It’s a memory that you know, honestly tony It’s a difficult thing to dredge up my friends. So yeah, but our day reception day that was a significant emotional event for sure. Okay.

[00:04:05.72] spk_1:
And so from the, from Mckinsey and the and the and the United States Army, why sparrow nonprofit services Sparrows to me seems so frail. Uh they don’t have long life spans. Why why set me straight? Why is it sparrow nonprofit

[00:05:15.04] spk_2:
service? Yeah, I think it’s a great question. I love this question. Uh, so I I’m a person of faith. My faith commitments are very, very important to me. And there is a biblical passage. Uh, that goes something like uh you are worth more than many sparrows kind of talking about the fact that um our creator sees everything every part of his creation including you know the smallest tiniest sparrow and we as people are worth more than many sparrows. So I wanted to give nonprofit leaders sort of that sense uh in all the work that I do uh that they’re seen their valued, they’re not alone and they have worth because it’s as your listeners, I’m sure know who our nonprofit leaders, it can be, it can be a lonely thing. So that’s why the name Sparrow is to bake that into the heart of everything that we are into.

[00:05:21.04] spk_1:
Alright, thanks. And they are our listeners. Derek, please our listeners. And and I cited the company were incorrectly Sparrow nonprofit solutions.

[00:05:30.39] spk_2:
It’s not

[00:05:31.41] spk_1:
mere services, services, any Schmo can provide services. Sparrow. Sparrow provides solutions. So,

[00:05:39.34] spk_2:
alright, let’s let’s talk about

[00:06:02.84] spk_1:
The book. The 40 laws of nonprofit impact. I’ve got, I’ve got a bunch that I would like to talk about, but I don’t know. I’m feeling generous. I’m feeling a little anarchic today. So I’m gonna, and listeners will know that this is outside what’s what’s typical. I’m gonna throw it to you first. You you pick a you pick a law, You have 40 laws? Yes. The 40 laws were broken down into different categories. You you pick a favorite law of yours. What’s the one you like to talk about

[00:08:54.54] spk_2:
first. Oh my goodness. You’re asking me to pick one of my favorite Children. And this is, this is difficult, but okay, then forget it. I’ll go for it. I I got, I got one. Um, so the one that I find raises the most eyebrows with nonprofit leaders that I speak with and maybe provokes the most reflection and thought on their part. So that’s fun when, when I can have that impact is law number to define the win. Um, really what that’s all about is uh, gently challenging nonprofit leaders to identify what is the fundamental unit of impact for their non profit organization. So a lot of words there, but let me, let me sort of share a simple example if, if I was on my high school football team, I’m not a big guy. So there was a time when I wanted to gain weight to be on the football team, If that was my goal to gain weight, the fundamental unit of impact would be what? £1? A single pound. Right? So that’s the number of units I’m trying to replicate and grow in my nonprofit, um, similar, you know, if, if I’m at this stage in my life and I might have one or two lbs to lose the fundamental unit of impact would be losing a pound. So that’s, that’s kind of the idea is that within your nonprofit, what is that unit? That is the thing that defines the win. So it’s, it’s incredible to me how many nonprofits go through their day to day operations not knowing that or having a vague sense of a general mission without having that unit of impact firmly in mind. But once they select it, They’re able to say a vision that they want to cast for the next 3-5 years. So let’s say that you and I Tony I’m in Denver and Love Nature trails. Let’s say that you and I together wanted to found a nonprofit to preserve public nature trails in the Denver area. The unit of impact would be one mile of nature trail that we keep clean, pristine, uh, keep it, you know, preserved. Um, from week to week we go out on the trail and that’s the mile that we, that we preserve. Um, well, let’s say we get a bunch of volunteers to help us, uh, and set a goal of five years from now. We want to have 1000 pristine clean public nature trails in the Denver area that are cleaned. Uh, that’s our pile of units of impact that we want to have. We just cast a vision for our nonprofit that we can gear the whole organization to the board, the staff, the volunteers, everybody has that vision of 1000 miles of public nature trail there, Derek, I’m a

[00:08:57.70] spk_1:
Little, I’m concerned you’re already backpedaling because the book posits 2500

[00:09:02.27] spk_2:
miles. I know

[00:09:04.03] spk_1:
this hypothetical nature nature trail preserves, preservation, nonprofit. Now you’re now you’re, you’re back down to only 1000. What happened to 2500 goal?

[00:09:13.03] spk_2:
Well, so that’s, I’m in Denver now in the book, it’s in north and south Carolina. So there’s more trails in the whole two states to work with. But yeah, I think around Denver there’s 1000. But yeah, thank you for catching me on that though. You’re, I can tell you’re a close reader. I read the book. I read that and I appreciate it. That’s all

[00:09:33.19] spk_1:
right. We’ll stick with 1000 will be modest. It’s, it’s the start of 1000 miles in the first year

[00:09:41.54] spk_2:
deal deal. Yeah, but that’s, that’s what I throw out is, is defining a win and challenging nonprofit leaders to really define that fundamental unit of impact and what’s the pile of units that they want to achieve in 3-5 years.

[00:10:25.84] spk_1:
And that leads beautifully. The one that I would like to talk about, which is the law number three, which is, who already know who you are when you’re winning. Which to me sounds, I mean it’s, it’s, uh, well, not to me, it sounds like, but it’s your, you say it, it’s, it’s, it’s the values. What do you, what does, what does your, what does your organization stand for? Uh, you know, at the core, aside from what it wants to do, what does it stand for And you know, this stuff off the top of that, you know, you don’t need to refer to your encyclopedia of the 40 laws. You know, this, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna stump you, I’m not out to stump you and uh, you wrote a book, come on.

[00:13:26.74] spk_2:
You know, I’m 100% with you. And um, what I, what I don’t say clearly in the book, but what it is worth mentioning here is these first four chapters, these first four laws or what I call the four questions and whenever I work with nonprofits kind of in a consultative basis, um, I love to kind of have this be one of the early conversations I have with them. And it’s a little bit of a different way of getting at the sort of age old in some ways tired and boring mission vision values strategy that we always hear about. I mean I came into my work with nonprofits wanting to sort of breathe some life some new life into those four things because it’s, it is, it’s easy to kind of have our sort of eyes roll back and just kind of get that glassy eyed look when the old mission vision values strategy conversation comes up. But the four questions that I throw out there are, why do you exist? What is winning? Who are you when you’re winning And how do you win? And that’s answering those. It gets to the right destination in a bit of a different way. In a way that involves people and results in an answer frankly that that’s different than just having the, the normal way that you might go about finding out what your mission vision values strategy are. The third question. Who are you when you’re winning is actually a way to get out the values of your organization and asking it in a who based way. It really unlocks some interesting thinking when I work with nonprofits. Um, one workshop that I love to do is actually Having six sticky flip charts posted around the wall of a room and asking the nonprofit to write down Name three men and three women in your organization could be volunteers, could be founders, could be staff write their name at the top of each one of the flip charts. So you’ve got these six flip charts around the room. Uh, Susan’s name goes on the top of one, jerry’s name goes to the top of the second and on around the room. And then everybody who’s participating in the workshop goes around the room with a flip chart marker and writes down everything they can name about the attributes of those people. What is it about them that makes them such an incredible embodiment of the nonprofit and by the end of the exercise, everyone’s crying. Everyone’s excited. Everyone’s thrilled about how great this organization is. But what’s what’s truly amazing is what what each of those words represents is a clue as to the values of the organization. Those words are who the organization is when it’s winning. And from those you can distill out what are the 5-7 Values of the organization? Having looked at the people of the organization 1st And then developing a check question for each, for each person to ask in a first person away for a moment to moment. AM I living out each one of these 5-7 values.

[00:13:47.34] spk_1:
I love this idea. That idea of starting with the people that embody the organization then what is it about those people? And then you find the commonalities across those. You said you do it with six. Uh, that’s, uh, that’s, that’s great insight.

[00:14:19.14] spk_2:
I like that. And it really, I mean it’s, it’s something I stumbled upon while working at a church, uh, some time ago. And what’s, what’s really neat about it is it avoids the trap of values that so many nonprofits fall into that, you know, they, they think about what’s gonna look good on a plaque or what’s gonna look good in the lobby or what’s gonna impress donors. What you’re actually doing is working from the bottom up and what you’re actually doing and who you actually are as an organization when you’re at your best and make and letting, letting the people doing the work as you say, um, speak to you about what the values really are.

[00:14:25.54] spk_1:
Now can those six people be in the room like, so can I go to my own flip chart and vote for myself and say charming, brilliant, funny. You know, can I vote for myself? My own my own flip chart

[00:14:37.84] spk_2:
only. You tony would ask a question like that. Of course. Yeah. Maybe we’d limited to three words on your own chart, but why not? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:48.64] spk_1:
And I can I can suggest adjectives for others to put onto my charger?

[00:14:53.09] spk_2:
Yes. Yes. Not happy about the adjectives that others use. but, but yes, it’s, it’s honesty. As long as honesty is in the room totally. Fair game.

[00:16:42.44] spk_1:
Okay. Yeah. But I’d like to lobby for my flip chart to be the longest and most effusive. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. You’re 2022 communications plan lots of projects in there. Lots of writing. Which of those writing projects can you outsource to free up staff time to devote to the work that can’t be outsourced? Is your communications team too small for all they have to produce. Do they seem overworked and under resourced pity, pity their communications team. You can get them help. Turn to communications. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to the 40 laws of nonprofit impact. You just have to get the book because we can’t talk about all 40 laws of nonprofit impacts. Not possible. We’re gonna skip around a little bit. So I’d like to talk about, you’re, you’re number six law give to gain, which reminds me of a, of a networking organization that I was in. In fact one of your, it’s either your footnote or one of your resources at the end of that law cites the is a book. I think I think it’s a resource you give by the, the founder of the organization. I was in Ivan Ivan Misner. Uh, the organization is business network international bien. I, I used to be in a B and I chapter in new york city. So, and he and the the uh, I guess so I suppose tagline of the organization was givers gain.

[00:17:19.24] spk_2:
I, I too am a B and I member. So I’m with you there and I am, I am even now, yeah, I’m a member of Gosh, it’s got to be one of the largest chapters in the U. S. Its 82 members. Can you imagine 82 members and a B and I chapter? Um, but for, for our listeners, um, I would say that that be and I is, is just incredible for nonprofits and they might have a deal these days about joining for free. So, uh, we can, that’s another topic. Another conversation. But yeah,

[00:17:54.34] spk_1:
just to just to put a little finer point on it if you have B. N. I. Business network and network, not networking. This network international if you have B and I chapters in your town. Uh, there is a uh, even though I’m not no longer remember, but I’ve been asked for by a couple of chapters who know me. Uh, each chapter is allowed one free nonprofit seat in its chapter. So you don’t have to pay the annual membership to join a B and I chapter. And it could be a very good resource. I, I found it very good for my business derek. You obviously find it good for your business, otherwise you wouldn’t be a member

[00:18:34.84] spk_2:
Of 100%. And the reason I recommend it to nonprofits is imagine 32 in my case, 80 individuals in your local area from all different professions, each with their own networks being a permanent week over week advocate for your nonprofit and your mission. Um, it’s almost like a ready made Salesforce marketing force, um, for, for your cause and for those nonprofits that I know that have been in B and I for three plus years, all of their volunteers, many of their donors, those who actually helped run their galas and events. A lot of that energy comes from from their B and I chapter so strongly recommended you

[00:18:52.24] spk_1:
Just did the purpose and overview portion of a weekly meeting at B&I was a member for 13 years in New York City. The only reason I left is because I moved to North Carolina. That’s the only reason. All right. So let’s talk about giving the game and, and, and I hope you’ll weave in vulnerability and

[00:21:23.54] spk_2:
generosity please. Absolutely. Yeah. So giving to gain is this idea that, um, if you, if you end up taking the approach with your non profit, not just to your beneficiaries, I think we all would say that with our nonprofit missions, we’re here to give to, you know, those who are the recipients of whatever our mission is. If we’re out to eradicate human trafficking. Um, you know, we’re are beneficiaries were giving to society by making sure that survivors are able to be restored. And uh, and that that those who are our victims are able to be pulled out. You know, of course, we’re giving to the beneficiaries of our organizations. It’s a little bit of a reach though, and maybe a bit of a new concept to think about giving to our board members, to our staff, to our volunteers, uh, to our prospective donors, to our existing donors. Everyone we interact with, um, in our organization. Um, we have the ability to do one of three things with them to either entertain, educate or empower. And those three things we can do with with every single person that we touch day in and day out. Whether it’s an email, a phone call, face to face interaction, giving needs to be the passion of every non profit leader. Um, and you mentioned vulnerability and generosity. Those are two of the main main components of how you can be a giver, vulnerability. Certainly in terms of, you know, approaching interactions in a way that, uh, that shows that you’re human. Um, I think authenticity is probably one of the most overblown, overused words. And, you know, there’s a dark side to authenticity in terms of, you know, just being a burden on everyone you come in contact with and and that’s not what we mean by vulnerability. What we mean really, actually is, is just showing that you have flaws, uh, that you’re someone who’s prone to mistakes, admitting those mistakes, showing your words and and letting the other person know that you’re human. Um, generosity. Uh, and really curiosity goes along with this as well. Is is training yourself to seek out ways to give, to look forward. You know, what is it that this person sitting across from me needs the most. I’m looking at you right now on zoom tony and I said I could see you could use some wall hangings. You know the walls behind you looking a little bare. So maybe I’ll send you something to hang on the wall here at some point. Just kidding. But

[00:21:42.54] spk_1:
I have my, I have my high, high hi tech art deco. Well not art deco, but uh, postmodern Hewlett Packard printer.

[00:21:49.68] spk_2:
It is, yeah, that, that is a, that is a nice printer back there. But, but hey, maybe maybe we could use a little bit more more on the wall. But you know what in every interaction. So there you go. Yeah.

[00:22:07.64] spk_1:
You recognize, I just tipped my camera, my screen up So that Derek could see, do you recognize that comic character?

[00:22:09.03] spk_2:
Uh, it’s a, what’s his sad, sad sam or sad. That’s beetle, that’s beetle bailey, beetle bailey. Okay, that’s assigned assigned original. Whoa.

[00:22:28.94] spk_1:
From, from mort walker. The uh, so well I’m, I’ve date myself all the time. I’m 60 years old. So I remember beetle Bailey in the comics, United States army

[00:23:15.54] spk_2:
was I know I noticed that beetle bailey. So here we go guys, this for our listeners. We, we can see here, I have a clue now of something that might be of value to tony in the future. Right. Just by looking at as well, taking a little interest, having a little curiosity. I, there may come a time here in the next month or two where here comes in the mail, a little cartoon for uh, for Tony to hang on his wall. Um, that can remind him of spare non profit solutions and keep him encouraged as he goes throughout his day. Just giving to gain, that’s the kind of thing we’re talking about is having just that little bit more curiosity than is common being that rare person who looks for ways to give and then the law of reciprocity pick kicks in where that person is. Uh, just naturally it’s the psychology of human nature is going to look for ways to give back

[00:24:04.04] spk_1:
somewhere in the book. You, you reckon you recommend. Uh, I think it’s two people a day, do something special for two people a day. And also try to uh think about how you can give something small to the people that you do interact with each day like you’re describing. You know, you don’t, you don’t need to send me any comics or I won’t reject it if you do. But, but uh, so you just, you, you got to get the book. You gotta get the book for the full breadth of the, the wisdom and the ideas. Um, and yeah, vulnerability. I, you know, too many people think vulnerability is a, is a sign of weakness. I think it’s a sign of confidence and strength that you’re, you’re confident and strong enough to to share your real self again without wearing your heart on your sleeves as you suggested, you know, and burdening people, but without not going that far. But vulnerability, I think is a sign of confidence and strength.

[00:24:24.84] spk_2:
It is, and it’s the, it’s, it taps into to the power of humor. I mean, I think one of the least mentioned and most underrated characteristics of leadership and impact for that matter is humor. Um, if you can make fun of yourself at the beginning of any talk that you give or fundraising conversation or uh, podcast that you joined, um, humor is uh, is one of the most disarming endearing things that you can do as a fundraiser and as a nonprofit leader. So vulnerability is a big part of that.

[00:25:16.94] spk_1:
I think I, I appreciate what you said about humor. Thank you. Um, I’ll leave it there. Said I believe. Well said, um, let’s talk about assembling if we could put these couple together assembling your dream team and running with achievers of character. You like the, the dream team to be uh productive. You talk about productive passion.

[00:26:16.04] spk_2:
Yes, absolutely. It’s from the very introduction. When I start to talk about talent. Uh and talent is one of the, He kind of red threads that kind of runs throughout all 40 laws of nonprofit impacts. Um, if I could wave a magic wand and wish anything on the nonprofit world today be different than the way it is. It’s that every nonprofit leader would become talent obsessed and I don’t use that word lightly. Uh you know, I one of the wonderful things about nonprofit leaders is what big hearts they have, not just for the causes that they serve, but but also for the people that are around them. Uh the flip side of that big hearted coin though is that we can unfortunately tolerate around us. Uh those whose talent profile may not be the best that would actually contribute to the advancement of our mission.

[00:26:22.10] spk_1:
Good enough. You know, you caution against making hires that are good enough,

[00:28:17.04] spk_2:
good enough hires. You got it. Yeah, I know it. When I, when I use the term talent obsessed, it is going uh more than 10 deep through a talent pool. When you put something out on indeed you see uh somebody on paper who looks like they’re good, they get in an interview, They answer some questions well and suddenly there in the nonprofit, well what you just did in in letting that person in the door without, you know, going deeper into the talent pool and doing your due diligence and giving that person a trial run of actually doing the work before they get the offer letter. Um, all of these things will greatly enhance not just your non profit in the near term, but they’re gonna impact the trajectory of your nonprofit organization way over the long term. So all the way back to your question about assembling your dream team is you’re always keeping an eye out for those people in your midst. Whether it’s just a volunteer who comes in to help with something, you see them approach their work of, you know, putting folding up the papers, putting them in the envelope, stamping them, sending them out. You’re watching. And there’s something that caught your eye while they were doing that work. The spirit that they brought to the work. The fact the way they’re interacting with the rest of your staff and the other volunteers. Just the vibe that they have their confidence. Um, you’re, you’re keeping an eye out for those kinds of talent, rock stars. And when you see that you actually make an effort to start to draw them into your dream team. This could be the case with prospective board members with major donors. Anything that might touch your nonprofit, you’re always trying to keep an eye out for who is going to be that inner circle that joins you to take this work into the future. Um,

[00:28:27.14] spk_1:
derek you when you were talking about and, and that may apply for volunteers as well. Maybe maybe moving someone from volunteer to volunteer leadership.

[00:28:31.84] spk_2:
It absolutely does

[00:28:36.17] spk_1:
clears the, what do you say the productive, those were productive passion

[00:28:42.14] spk_2:
mentioned

[00:28:44.16] spk_1:
10, 10 deep in an, in an interview process. What did you mean by that?

[00:29:56.84] spk_2:
So I I think we, we nonprofit leaders can have a tendency busy as they are to give up a little bit too early or to, uh, to settle, you know, for someone who is, you know, looks good on paper and you know, let’s give them a try in the role and start paying them. And the thought is, we can always go back on that decision. Well, No, it’s, it’s not easy to uh, change someone’s life to give them a job and they get into the role and then suddenly there’s an inertia into the thing where it, it is difficult to go back on that decision. Why not take an extra month or two and go 30 deep or 50 deep into the indeed pool something I I did recently with a higher inspire nonprofit solution was that was actually create a google sheet that has multiple tabs that actually gave them real work to do that they would be doing if they came into the role in my organization. That’s before the interview. Even so I haven’t even talked to this person yet. I see the indeed resume and they’re getting a link from me to a customized google sheet for them to go through and do the actual work that they would be doing within sparrow then and only then when they’ve completed the sheet and I’ve seen that they have the grit and the intelligence and the mental equipment and uh, the, the ingenuity

[00:30:07.14] spk_1:
also the commitment,

[00:30:08.87] spk_2:
the commitment

[00:30:09.72] spk_1:
you’re asking for, you’re asking for a time commitment before you’ve even interviewed them.

[00:30:36.94] spk_2:
I can’t tell you Tony how many, I can’t tell you Tony how many people I thought were rock stars that I sent this google sheets and they never even got a third of the way through the thing. And that told me good thing. I didn’t waste my time, you know, interviewing speaking with them. You wouldn’t believe how many nonprofit leaders don’t do. This is so yeah, this this easy step of just having them do the work. And yeah, this is part of being talent obsessed. And I commend it to every nonprofit leader

[00:30:50.24] spk_1:
and you’re standing by that. Even in today’s labor constrained market where a lot of people have left. Uh, it’s harder to, it’s harder to find people. You’re, you stand by the talent obsession. Even in the current labor market,

[00:31:05.14] spk_2:
I stand by it even more so I stand by it even more. So yeah, it’s no higher is better than a bad hire and whether that’s, that takes two months or six months. Um, you get the right people into your organization. This goes for board seats by the way. Um, even more so, But yes, you take the time that you need to get the right person in the role, especially in this talent constrained environment.

[00:33:03.24] spk_1:
It’s time for tony steak too. How long has planned giving been on your to do list? I can help you get it off The 50% off planned giving accelerator. It’ll never be cheaper. It’s never, never going to be less than this. 50% off. It ends next week February 7th. You can join the february class. The class runs for six months. Your commitment is an hour a week for six months and we will launch your planned giving program together. You get 50% off. There are still some slots left. A generous donor has agreed to pay half the tuition for 10 nonprofits and there are still spots left. If you’d like to get yours, you can send me an email, tony at tony-martignetti dot com. If you want info on planned giving accelerator, that’s at planned giving accelerator dot com. Let me know you want to get planned giving off your to do list. It’s never going to be easier. I’m putting it right in your lap. I hope you’ll be with me. That is tony steak too. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for the 40 laws of nonprofit impact with Derek Timmerman that that makes me think of your Law # 11, which is higher with ruthless selectivity.

[00:34:27.24] spk_2:
That’s it. Yeah. And that’s, that’s kind of the thesis of the last, you know, five ish minutes of what we’ve been discussing, um, hire your staff with ruthless selectivity. Absolutely. But that goes for, uh, for the board as well. Um, uh, it’s, it’s a regrettable feature of the nonprofit landscape these days that so many board members are brought in, um, on kind of what you’re doing us a favor type thing is please please please join our board and we desperately need, you know, people with your skills. Um, oh, you’re an accountant. Oh, we need a treasurer for our board. Please join. Um, it’s not gonna be that much of a commitment. Oh man. It drives me crazy. tony It’s got to go. The other direction is, Yeah, this is, this isn’t, this is an 18, this is a varsity team. Um, we’re not sure if you’re going to be right for the board. I like that you have an accounting background. That is something that we could use, but that means nothing to us. Uh, if if you’re not willing to put in eight hours a month of time and energy and effort and have a purple passion for, for this nonprofit’s mission. So we’ll see. Um, but, but we, we hope it works out. But, but let’s do the dance and see where this goes to see if you might be, might have what it takes to join our board. That makes all the difference.

[00:34:33.54] spk_1:
You highly value personal referrals to folks, folks that are already close to the organization recommending,

[00:35:14.24] spk_2:
Oh yeah. And I’m enthralled by these examples like Zappos who have come out and said we’re not going to do job descriptions anymore. How cool is that to say that we’re not going to go the traditional route of just putting out job descriptions. Uh, and job postings out on the internet for all to see. We know what we need and we have great people. So we’re gonna trust those people to, to spread the word about the roles that we need and, and get those people into into a situation where they can interview with us, where they can go through some scenarios to see how they do kind of in the work itself. And yeah, we’re just gonna do this by word of mouth. That’s a, it’s a cool model and it’s working for him

[00:35:40.94] spk_1:
interesting. I am not aware of that, but I could see the value. It’s um, alright, it’s groundbreaking. Good. Yeah. I like, I like people who, uh, think outside, you know, just think differently. I don’t like outside the box, but just think just think differently and, and, and try it. You know, if they don’t end up getting enough applicants to their jobs, then then they can find another way they can pivot and, and think of something else that’s, that’s not just a typical job description on, on a job board

[00:36:32.73] spk_2:
and yeah. And I know that there’s probably listeners right now thinking I’m a I’m a tiny nonprofit. It’s just me, right, It’s I’m the executive director and that’s it. So derek, I get it. But where do I even begin with this? And I would say to the, to that person, just as a way of encouragement, uh it’s gonna take a lot of effort to get those 1st 123 rock stars aligned with you. But take comfort that it gets easier, the more that you build this dream team, the easier it gets to just add that incremental next person. So put in the effort, put in the work as slow as it feels to find that one that 1st, 2nd, 3rd dream team member and you’re gonna watch it get easier as time goes on.

[00:36:51.33] spk_1:
You also have advice about firing fast, letting people go when it’s not working out, Don’t, don’t invest more, cut your losses. Move on.

[00:37:32.33] spk_2:
Yeah. This is something I learned from my Mackenzie days, honestly from my working with Fortune 500 companies. When we would do these Mackenzie surveys of C. E. O. S and C suite leaders about the biggest regret that they have in their professional life. It was moving too slowly on poor performers, uh letting that extra six months or a year or two years or more go by. Uh just hoping that things would change and feeling like, you know, putting too much stock in what professional development could achieve. I do believe strongly that that people can improve and change. But there there is a base level of capacity uh to continuously improve. And if if you don’t notice that that is their uh the best thing that you can do for your organization and your mission is to act quickly on poor hiring decisions.

[00:38:12.22] spk_1:
I think a lot of C. E. O. S. Consider that an admission and an embarrassing admission of of a mistake. If I if I fire the person too quickly then it’s obvious that I shouldn’t have hired them in the first place. And now I’m admitting that I’ve made a mistake but that goes back to vulnerability, you know checking your ego at the door uh and just being confident enough to admit that you did make a mistake.

[00:39:24.92] spk_2:
It’s the gambler’s it’s it’s it’s the age old gambler thing. I was in Vegas once. I know that surprises you Tony, I know that you don’t think of me maybe as a Vegas guy, but I’m sitting at the roulette table. There you go. Yeah I’m sitting at the roulette table and uh this guy next to me has a confident look on his face and he put some money down on on red and he loses. Uh and he puts double that amount on red and I can I can see where this story’s going, I’ve seen this movie before, I feel bad for him but he puts double on red and he loses again and with each time that he puts money on red, he doubles it and he keeps getting this worse and worse, more concerned look on his face To the point where he’s lost six times and I can tell by the look on the guy’s face, he’s about to put his kids a big chunk of his kid’s college fund on red. It’s just, yeah, it’s awful. But this is what we do when it comes to bad hires all the time and I would just say walk away from the table and, and, and, and go do something else.

[00:39:31.72] spk_1:
Do you have advice to? And uh Law # 14 About using freelancers when, when, while you’re sleeping?

[00:42:02.00] spk_2:
Yeah man, it’s, it’s so exciting to be in uh, an entrepreneurial role like spare nonprofit solutions for nonprofit leaders that are small or mid sized to be in these roles. I mean Even more so than 10 or 15 years ago, we have platforms available to us today to access uh incredibly talented, fluent English speakers in the Philippines in India, you know, any country, even in the us who are willing to do incredible work for organizations while we sleep. These are called freelancers and the the two platforms, I’ll give three actually the three platforms I use most when it comes to freelancers are fiber Up work and 99 designs And imagine in 99 designs case you need a logo, you need a a new label design for something, you need a poster or a one pager. You can go in 99 designs and start a contest and have freelancers from all over the world designers who are incredibly talented competing to win your contest. So it could be $99 it could be 1 99. But rather than go out and going out and hiring a design firm, you can have this contest where freelancers are actually competing to win, you’re giving them feedback. So they’re actually doing revisions right there. So all of these folks are working for you and then by the end of it you’ve got an incredible product that you can, that you can then take into your nonprofit work. I’ve used this in list building all the time right now as well as you and I are speaking tony I’ve got three freelancers around the world building, uh, lists with email addresses, phone numbers, prospects. Um, and, and I know that here in a day or two, I’ll be able to look at those and use those for my, my marketing efforts. That’s what I mean by b have always have something happening while you’re sleeping. Um, These freelancers could be doing great things for you for $5 an hour, maybe less. Um, and you can even pay them for the actual project itself. I do 25 cents a row for my excel spreadsheet for my google sheets that I have them fill out for, for leads. So I don’t know. I’m not sure if your listeners could, could use 25 cents a road to have a fundraising sheet to growing while you’re doing other things. But, but I found it’s, it’s incredibly helpful to my work.

[00:42:14.70] spk_1:
And what are the three sites that you use again? Five? Er, I know I’ve used that one. So Fiverr is one

[00:42:20.74] spk_2:
Driver with two Rs. So if you are are up work is the 2nd and 99 designs is the third for anything visual or involving design, 99 designs is incredible.

[00:42:50.90] spk_1:
Let’s talk about some, uh, some of your laws that are intrinsic to, to the, to the person, like unleashing your unique strengths and and avoiding that. Focus on

[00:45:07.49] spk_2:
weaknesses. Sure, yeah, this is this is so near and dear to my heart that I wasn’t Mackenzie for six years and the second three years was doing a people strategy on Mackenzie itself. So it was actually, we did it. We launched an engagement not to serve an external client, but to say we’re going to sharpen the saw within this consulting firm. So we’re gonna do a strategy on how to be the preeminent place for the world’s most incredible talent and one of the main work streams that we ended up coming up with. Um and this is all research based, is making Mackenzie a strengths based organization and I took that to heart so much that I’ve taken it everywhere. I’ve gone to work with nonprofits as well. Because the thesis is this is that all of us came up in elementary school, middle school, high school and college with this grading system and the best you can get on most assignments is what 100, right? Yeah, that’s that’s the best score you can get. And uh That was the top thing that, that we could achieve. And anything less than that was points were deducted. You lose two points here, five points. They’re 10 points there if it’s late, that’s -10 or 20 or something. But, but that’s how we learned. What success is is not making mistakes. So here we are dumped into adult life and we’ve got this paradigm of, that’s that’s what success is. So we feel like job to job, task to task our goal is to what eradicate as many mistakes from our work as we can, is get rid of the weaknesses. Well, come to find out that the research shows that you can really only take a weakness From a, you know, a negative 10 to maybe a negative four. It’s never gonna stop being a weakness when it comes to being intrinsically, you know, who you are, the essence of who you are. Um, I will never be a really great gregarious, um, the person who can work a room, you know, that you

[00:45:08.04] spk_1:
say you say in the book a few times, that you’re an

[00:46:11.48] spk_2:
introvert, introvert? Absolutely, 100%. But um so I’m only gonna do so much to mitigate that weakness. If I if I spent all my time trying to to play the extroverts game, I would never be able to leave the impact on the world that I otherwise would if I had focused on my strengths. Because the research, same research also shows that you can take a plus 10 with the same effort or much easier than you took the negative 10 to a negative four. You can take a plus 10 to a plus 40 in terms of your strengths. So what am I going to focus on as far as leaving my impact on the world? I’m a pretty good writer. So rather than focus on going into all of these networking events and working a room, I still need to show up, I still need to do that. Um and but if I have a certain amount of poker chips to put on a certain place, I’m gonna put those poker chips on my strengths and make sure that weaknesses aren’t holding me back, but focus most of my time on my strengths and bring people around me that have strengths in areas that I have weaknesses.

[00:46:21.48] spk_1:
The man claims he’s not a gambler, but now that’s the second uh that’s the second gambling metaphor. We’ve been through the roulette table, we’ve been to the poker table, I don’t know, maybe you’ll be upped the stakes, will go to baccarat, We’ll see, we’ll see where we

[00:46:33.27] spk_2:
go. Something tells me you’d be pretty dangerous in Vegas. tony may be dangerous

[00:47:08.38] spk_1:
to myself, Dangerous to my future and my retirement. Yeah, that that’s the danger. The house, the house has nothing to worry about. Yeah, that’s another one that’s individual. Um Mhm. Mhm. Eat last, eat last and get dirty. And this is a little controversial. This is talking about thinking differently. Uh This is not a not a mainstream uh Strategy Law Law number 19, but let’s talk about it, Eat last and get dirty.

[00:50:19.26] spk_2:
Yeah, something I do in the book is kind of chunk up each of these laws into sort of themed groups. And this one is in the laws of leadership. And it was I benefited although I didn’t appreciate it at the time. I benefitted while at West Point um being the recipient of an unending parade of speakers that would come before us. Uh It was Robinson Auditorium and we would go down as a class or as a whole school, only 4000 cadets in the whole of West Point. Um and we would gather in these auditoriums and once or twice a week, incredible leadership speakers from around the world would come and share their wisdom and a commonality that we’d find over and over again is this leadership attributes of selflessness of being the last to eat the last to leave the last to benefit when your soldiers. Uh in the context of West Point training, they come first soldiers first leaders last. And that finds a way of seeping into your soul after enough of those talks. Uh, and you get out and in the two combat tours, I was in Iraq. Uh that was something that you know, that I took to every unit that I lead is this idea that you know, they eat first, they get to use the phone first to call home, they get to use the computer first to send the email. And this leadership attribute is something that really endears those who serve alongside you. Uh they really come to to follow you into anything if they know that that’s the leadership um approach that you take. So in the nonprofit world, what what does that look like? Uh it really looks like, you know, being the leader who puts staff volunteers board the mission first. And it’s radical to see when you see it. It’s incredibly rare, as you say. Um, in the book, I think I used the example of from one of my favorite books by Stephen Press field of King Leonidas in Gates of Fire. Uh if if I could only recommend one leadership book and I give away cases of the thing. Um it’s it’s this book, Gates of Fire and there’s a critical moment when everyone is squabbling around what to do about this wall, there’s a debate where do we put it? How high do we make it? What materials do we use? And the old king just begins to pick up one block at a time and set it on top of the other and everyone looks on and says what what what is he doing? Well, he’s just beginning to to build the wall. He doesn’t say a word. He just leads by example and starts to do it and suddenly everyone had a shame says what what are we waiting for? Let’s go. And everyone starts to build it alongside him and there he is. Even to the end, long after others have have tired out. He’s still they’re still building. So that that to me is the image of leadership that I try to carry with me. Don’t I wouldn’t say I’m always successful but that’s the ideal.

[00:51:14.86] spk_1:
You do say people will follow a strong and sacrificial figure who leads by example will find a point on it. Um but then you know it goes far. You know, you talk about work martyrdom and that’s why I said this one is certainly I think is is controversial, controversial polemic. Um you martyrdom. Mm hmm. Not not taking vacation. You know you you open that law. I think with a description of what most people would say is someone overcommitted. Uh maybe even obsequious to their to their supervisor. Uh show it feels they have to be the first one in the office and the last one every day etcetera and then you you you encapsulated as as work martyrdom. But then you you praise that.

[00:53:43.85] spk_2:
Yeah, so this is hopefully where I don’t lose, lose you and certainly not our listeners. Absolute. Yeah, no, this is one of the more controversial parts of 40 laws. Um I’ve noticed a trend recently uh just in uh as you know, a lot of the well intentioned writings and books around mental health in the workplace um have tried, you know, for for a long, long time to get people to recognize that, you know, it’s necessary to be a whole person and a lot of that is is very useful and well meaning. But as in all things I believe the pendulum can swing too far in one or the other direction. And it’s my humble opinion that the pendulum may have swung a little bit too far in the direction of uh trying to build a padded room around the workplace of there is a little bit of a manby pamby uh vibe to a lot of what’s coming out these days when it comes to work is don’t don’t work too too hard now and you need to make sure that you have the proper balance in place. And you know, again, all well intentioned, but what it’s done is is ignore the story after story that I put in the book. Every chapter begins with a key leader, the real story of a nonprofit leader who um if they had taken that advice would not have achieved near what they did in their lives, uh with the impact that they did, um to include some of the foremost figures like dr martin Luther King, Jr who was flying around all over the place during the height of his ministry to achieve what he did. Uh did he back off? Did he take it easy? Did he embrace a work life balance? Um I would say maybe not according to, you know what we’re hearing from a lot of folks these days. So work martyrdom is the term that I give to, you know, the the extreme pendulum swing that says, you know, don’t don’t don’t work too hard, take it easy. Well, I would say that in order to achieve the, the impact on the world that many of these non profit missions would hope to achieve. Yeah, it’s gonna take, it’s gonna take a radical level of work ethic in order to achieve that. A work ethic that would look crazy uh, to maybe some of the folks who are writing these books. So again, I hope I didn’t lose you or too many folks with with that little screen, but that’s where I land

[00:55:06.94] spk_1:
invited it. Uh, I well, we’ll leave it there. Let let folks decide what what what what what the balance is, what’s appropriate. Let’s wrap up with one another one. I’m so such a generous spirit today. I don’t know why it’s uh it’s upsetting me that, uh, not at all, but let’s wrap up with one that you’d like to talk about that we haven’t talked about yet. Um, yeah, you could, you could you pick a law that we, we if if if you need a little guidance, like we didn’t talk about anything related to laws of engagement or laws of operating. Um, we didn’t talk about laws of diversity. And the only reason I left that out intentionally is because I anticipate a lot of conversations coming up Around diversity from the nonprofit technology conference where I’m gonna be interviewing 25 or 30 of their speakers that’s coming up in March. And I know we’re gonna have a lot of guests talking about diversity. So that’s why that’s why I didn’t leave. That’s why I deliberately left out your, You’re four laws on diversity, but you want to please.

[00:56:53.33] spk_2:
Well, there’s, there’s one, there’s one within the laws of diversity that that is not going to touch on the nose to what you’re going to be talking about, you know, in later podcasts and in the conference. So if if I may be so bold that the one that I think is Is a way to end on a high note as well is celebrate. And elevate law 18 celebrate and elevate. And it it’s, uh, it touches on diversity, but it’s, it’s broader than that. Um, you know, we’ve talked about lots of things that, you know, uh, nonprofits can improve on. But I’d like to end on a high note just by saying that your nonprofit, whoever you are, whatever you’re doing, uh there’s things that are happening every single day that are worth celebrating. So I would I would say that, you know, the best gift you can give your non profit is a great board of directors. The next best gift a close second is a culture of celebration within the walls of your nonprofit. There are many things that are happening all the time that are worth celebrating. If your emails are loaded with celebration, if you’re if you catch your staff or volunteers doing things well and make a huge deal of it and are lavish in your praise of them. Uh and celebrating them. If you’re starting out each of your staff meetings with a celebratory moment of something that’s that’s going great in your organization. Um that’s what I would say is if you can give your nonprofit a culture of celebration where you’re constantly catching things going well, giving voice to them, being vocal about them and recognize them recognizing those things in silly, exciting ways. Uh maybe even to the point of literally having a bell in your nonprofit workspace where you’re ringing the bell all day long. Uh that is the kind of nonprofit, I love, I’d love to be involved in, and I’m sure you would as well. So that’s what I would say is is find ways to, to develop a culture of celebration within your nonprofit

[00:57:25.53] spk_1:
Derek Timmerman, D E R I K. Founder of Sparrow Nonprofit solutions. The book is the 40 laws of nonprofit impact. Derek, thank you so much. What a

[00:57:27.15] spk_2:
pleasure. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you tony

[00:58:08.33] spk_1:
next week, influencing young America to act with Derrick Feldmann. You see how the show is planned out to all the, how all the derricks come together. This this does not just happen, this is this is takes production skill. I can’t even begin to explain that the time that goes into uh coordinating the derricks to be together. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is

[00:58:35.13] spk_0:
Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our web guy. And this music is by scott stein, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty be with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the The other 95% go out and be great