Tag Archives: career

Nonprofit Radio for January 18, 2021: The Hot Sauce Principle

My Guest:

Brandon Smith: The Hot Sauce Principle

With a catchy book title like that, how could I call the show anything else? The author, Brandon Smith, shares his wisdom and advice on applying hot sauce in your career and at home. He also reveals how to protect yourself from getting burned. It’s all based on his many years of coaching and consulting with CEOs, leadership teams and boards.



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[00:02:19.14] spk_0:
hello and welcome to 20 martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of vibrio Sys, which is what I should have suffered last week when I missed a pronounced it Mr When I Mr pronounced it vibe Bro Sis, if you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show so you know that you’re stuck with a lackluster host, You know, you know this, it’s this is not even news to the most casual listener the hot sauce principle with a catchy book title like that, How could I call the show anything else? The author Brandon Smith shares his wisdom and advice on applying hot sauce in your career and at home. He also reveals how to protect yourself from getting burned. It’s all based on his many years of coaching and consulting with CEO’s leadership teams and boards. Antonis, take two our nation is counting on you were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot CEO and by dot drives Prospect to donor. Simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and a free month. It’s my pleasure to welcome Brandon Smith. He’s the workplace therapist, expert in leadership, communication and cure. Cure of workplace dysfunction. He’s been featured in The Wall Street Journal, fast company, CNN, fox news dot com, NPR, Forbes and many other outlets. His book is The Hot Sauce Principle. How Toe Live and Lead In a world where everything is urgent all of the time and that’s what brings him to non profit radio. He’s at the workplace therapist dot com and at the w P Therapist. What a pleasure. Welcome, Brandon Smith.

[00:02:21.01] spk_1:
Tony. Really glad to be with you today and on your show.

[00:02:24.53] spk_0:
Thank you. And it’s a pleasure to have you. And you’ve got all these media credentials fast company, CNN, Fox News. You realize, though, that those have all led you to this moment on non profit

[00:02:37.03] spk_1:
moment? All this is the pinnacle. This is all those things got me here today and I’m excited about it.

[00:03:04.44] spk_0:
Exactly. This is your you’re zenith your pique your day normal. Uh huh. It’s non profit radio. It’s of your of your exposure. Thio Media is here on non profit radio. So welcome, Thio. The best moment so far. All right, So obvious question. What’s the hot sauce? What’s the hot sauce principal? Lead us into this and then we’ll talk about how folks can employ it to help themselves and their families even.

[00:04:03.44] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. So I’m gonna go back in time a little bit. I’m gonna go back five years or so And what was striking me and all the clients I was working with, folks. The non profit space for profit space. It could be university schools, public sector. It could be a big companies, small companies. It didn’t matter. What was true was 22 things. Time was everyone’s most precious resource. It wasn’t money. It was time, and everything felt urgent all the time. And in that world, it was causing us all to operate more like firefighters. And I’m sure your listeners can relate to that experience. And so what hit me was it was like hot sauce. Everyday urgency by itself is like hot sauce and a little bit of hot sauce. I love hot sauce. Frankly, um, you put a little bit on on something that’s bland and adds a little focus, a little flavor, and as interest it gets you concentrating on it. But if everything that comes in on our plates that comes out of the kitchen is covered in hot sauce, the appetizer, the salad, the entree, the brownie, the ice tea, we’re gonna be overwhelmed and curl up in a ball. And that was what so many of the folks that I was working with were experiencing was this feeling of burnout. And so the book really came from that idea of how do we manage the right amount of hot sauce in life, both when we’re leading others or and or when others are kind of guiding us? How do we manage that flow of hot sauce? So it’s it’s adding more interest in focus and not just burning us out. And so that was the impetus for the book, tony. And that’s really the the whole idea behind the concept.

[00:04:51.44] spk_0:
Okay, I want to thank you very much for being a guest. Uh, we’re wrapped up. Wait a minute. You told

[00:04:58.26] spk_1:
me that interview I’ve ever done in the history of interviews. Tony,

[00:05:27.14] spk_0:
we’re having fun, So yes, you talk about uncontrolled urgency, that’s what we’re. That’s what we’re we’re victim of. We’re trying to avoid creating this uncontrolled urgency in our in our lives and our teams. Right? A ZX, you say. Too much hot sauce. It’s no good. It ruins its its ruins. Its impact. It’s not. It’s not interesting and flavorful anymore. Overwhelming and burning and hurting us.

[00:05:50.24] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s exactly that’s exactly right. So it’s It’s both a byproduct of people stress and anxiety. Right? So, you know, if I’m putting pressure on you to get something done right away, and then you might put that pressure on somebody else that they’re on your team, right? You kind of push it down so it can complement stress. And anxiety can also come just from a simple lack of prioritization. You’re feeling like we’ve got to do everything. Everything is important.

[00:05:57.64] spk_0:
Yes. We’re gonna get to the importance of proposition. Yes. And you tell these you you you unravel the mysteries of urgency and the hot sauce through lots of lots of stories opening with Kate, who is, uh, listen, you’ve got to get the book because you gotta hear you got a little stories of Kate and Kate and her boss, uh, the it improves. It ends very nicely, but, uh, it’s a it’s a tough. Especially that opening scene with Kate 5 30 in the morning. Um, that’s rough. It’s It’s hard to read, you know? It makes

[00:06:27.93] spk_1:
good. Used to be hard to read. It’s supposed to hurt. Yeah,

[00:06:31.09] spk_0:
makes your heart race while, uh, while you’re reading about this one dimensional story. Alright, Um, but we can master this. We can master the urgency we can. We can apply the hot sauce sprinkled appropriately and be of great benefit to ourselves. Our careers, even our families

[00:06:49.77] spk_1:
absolutely sure can. Okay, that’s what that’s what the books all about, how to get a master,

[00:07:11.34] spk_0:
it. That’s where we are. Um, you talk about good bit about trust and and vulnerability. Expand on that a little bit. And maybe we’ll even say a little more about I love vulnerability. I think vulnerability is a sign of strength, not weakness. To be vulnerable is to be strong. I think not. Not cowardly and weak, but you roll that into trust. Yeah, and and so explain. Explain where you’re coming from with trust and vulnerability and credibility

[00:08:01.24] spk_1:
in the in the book. I talk about my trust formula and and And the reason why I talk about it is because if we’re going to create urgency and others, yeah, urgency is a stated discomfort. So you’re intentionally making other folks uncomfortable. You’re taking folks, they’re comfortable and you’re making them uncomfortable on purpose. And that’s advanced leadership stuff. Sometimes we have to do that with our teams. Sometimes we have to do that with our kids. That’s just part of the nature of kind of leading others. Um, and in that moment they’re gonna ask themselves, Do I trust this person enough to allow them to make me feel this way? Which is why trust comes in and it’s so important. We got to start with a foundation of trust. So now I already went back in time. Five years. I’m going back in time a little over 10 years now. So about 10 years ago, I was

[00:08:07.48] spk_0:
teaching have a sound effect for time travel that I used once years ago on this show. Maybe I’ll maybe I’ll insert a little

[00:08:13.61] spk_1:
need to bring it back would be perfect right now. Time travel music. So So a little over 10 years ago, I was teaching at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, in their business school. I

[00:08:22.63] spk_0:
see you’re Emory University diploma on your wall.

[00:08:55.74] spk_1:
It’s behind me up. So and I was teaching MBA students and, you know, MBA students typically think in terms of numbers. And I was trying to think of How do you take a concept like trust and make it mathematical? And I ended up coming up with this trust formula. And it’s in the book, and the trust formula is authenticity plus vulnerability in parentheses. Okay, so you got to kind of think about kind of basic math principles, authenticity, plus vulnerability in parentheses and some of that multiplied times. Credibility gets us trust and the reason why I did it that way. Originally, I did it a straight up addition formula authenticity, plus vulnerability plus credibility. But in that version, you could have zero credibility and come out with positive trust. And that’s not how trust work

[00:09:07.76] spk_0:
that case. All three are equal, right?

[00:10:32.64] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s how it works. And so the reason why I had to put the multiplier in there is because whenever you multiply anything by zero. What do you get? You get 00 Credibility, zero trust. And the same is true on the other side. If authenticity and vulnerability go to zero, you got zero trust. So what we’re saying is you gotta show up is credible, you know, which means you’re reliable, predictable. We could talk more about that. But, you know, you deliver on your expectations, you do what you say you’re gonna dio um, but you also gonna show up as a real human being, which is the authenticity and vulnerability side. You know, you’ll be transparent about your thinking and your motives. That’s authenticity. But vulnerability. You gotta be okay to ask for help, Okay? To say, I don’t have all the answers, okay, to say I was wrong. You were right. Okay. To share a little more about your own personal story and journey with other people. That’s that’s That’s how we build trust. And the good news is you don’t have to be perfect on all those, but you just can’t go to zero. You go to zero and you got problems. So it’s a good reminder for us when we’re sitting in that leader seat and by the way, leader. When I talk about leader, it doesn’t have to be by title. We could be leading appear, leading a donor leading, Ah, volunteer, whether we have a title or not, Um, we’re leading others if we’re trying to influence them. And this is this is how we need to build trust. So then we could be effective in those roles. And part of what makes a non profit space so challenging is sometimes there isn’t really clear role clarity. Sometimes there’s a lot of informal leadership that occurs in that world. And so, you know, making sure we’ve got enough in the trust bank account to be able to do what we need to do effectively is really important. So that gets a little bit of high level overview of the formula. I’m happy to riff in any direction you’d like to go.

[00:12:00.14] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times You wanna be in outlets like that? CBS Market Watch, The Chronicle of Philanthropy Turn two has the relationships with these types of media outlets so that when they’re looking for experts on charitable giving, non profit trends or philanthropy they call Turn to turn two calls you because you’re their client. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Now back to the hot sauce principle. I I want to talk about using urgency appropriately to help yourself. So not Thio. Help you manage your own work life, maybe even your career. Certainly. If you’re doing this well, you’ll be promoted into leadership. You know, maybe you’re leading one person or something. But but mawr on the individual basis, you know, so using it and then protecting yourself from hot sauce at work. Also from protecting yourself from too much urgency. So that those sort of direction Then we’ll talk about the family. You have some good stories about your three kids. E hope their good. What? Pardon me, but

[00:12:06.24] spk_1:
I hope their good usually involves the making fun of dad, which is fun.

[00:12:20.64] spk_0:
Exactly. Right? Is there a little private stories? Yes, they’re private laughs. Um, so you talk about eso in with the individual? You talked about having a compelling Why, Yeah, What’s that about?

[00:13:57.04] spk_1:
So I think when we talk about for us one of the ways we can create urgency for ourselves At least in our career is have that compelling line that that sense of purpose. Why do we do what we dio and have that to kind of guide our decisions as we choose career opportunities and choose passed forward when we don’t have that sense of why that sense of purpose as we’re making career decisions we tend to default to shiny, shiny could be a shiny title or shiny brand or shiny paycheck? There’s nothing wrong with shiny, but that’s not what we want. The end all be all to be because, like most things that are shiny, the shine wears off pretty fast, and then we’re looking for a new shiny. So when the more we can use purposes were making career decisions that why the better? So that’s a good long term strategy. Now, going back to your comment around how to be urgency in our professional development and careers, a long term strategy would be a y. A short term strategy is, um, set deadlines and create some kind of accountability system. So I will tell you, tony, I’m really proud of this book that you’ve got a chance to read, and we’re talking about here today It took me about four years to write the darn thing, and the first three years was because I was trying to make it a priority. But there was always something that got pushed up higher. So I finally said to myself One day I said, Look, Brandon, this isn’t gonna happen unless you get some help And I went out and I hired a book coach. Her name’s Cathy Feedback, and Kathy has been wonderful because she created urgency for me. She would say, Brandon, you have two weeks Monday at 9 a.m. In two weeks. You owe me Chapter seven and all of a sudden I had a deadline.

[00:13:58.63] spk_0:
You know, you don’t want to show up empty handed.

[00:14:01.17] spk_1:
Also, it was like it was like I was back in college. I’m sliding the term paper underneath the door at 4 59 right? Um, and so it reminded me of of the of those days, and it gave me deadlines. And you can’t have urgency without deadlines.

[00:14:16.64] spk_0:
You say there were two types of urgency your type one and type two that you can use to your benefit those out

[00:15:02.94] spk_1:
eso these air particularly effective when you’re trying to create urgency with others, but they could be good with you to, um there’s two kinds worst case scenario and opportunity scenario. So worst case scenarios, like, you know, if I don’t change, you know, I’m going to die or something horrible is gonna happen to me. Yeah, on then. In the best case scenario is, I’ve got this great window of opportunity. And if I hurry now, I can make it in the window. But if I don’t hurry, the window is gonna close, and I’ll miss that opportunity. Maybe that’s a promotion or getting yourself up for promotion or some other opportunity like that. Worst case scenario. A good example of that in, um Anyway, uh is every year when I get close to my annual physical, my kids always know and they give me a hard time. Because about six weeks before my annual physical, I start really working out hard. I start really watching my diet because I’m

[00:15:13.40] spk_0:
trying to bring to the doctors. You have to bring down your heart rate, you

[00:15:17.13] spk_1:
know? Yeah, I do. All the

[00:15:18.23] spk_0:
things you started, your iron level is good.

[00:15:21.75] spk_1:
All the things. So then when I get in there? I want the doctor to say, Wow, you look really great. And then I could leave there and immediately go grab, you know, some french fries on the white home. Uh, but that that’s a great example of kind of urgency. That deadline creates urgency for me, right? And then I and then I don’t want to show bad. It’s kind of a little bit of fear factor. So then I I am motivates me. Thio get going.

[00:15:42.10] spk_0:
But the only way to keep yourself healthy throughout the years to have, like, eight doctor, eight physical e carry each one carries you six weeks. That success, you know,

[00:15:52.12] spk_1:
that would be good. I I could do that. Uh, but but that’s why people use things like accountability partners, accountability partners are, you know, essentially a form of kind of urgency. It’s like, Oh, my gosh, I got a call. I got a call with tony today. At one o’clock, I better make sure I’m ready. So it kind of sets me up for that. You know, you, accountability, partner is another great way you can. You could do that And that you can use that with anything you could be

[00:16:17.56] spk_0:
both with. You prepared for this call? Of course I prepared for this, Uh, prepared. I couldn’t tell. I’ve

[00:16:21.59] spk_1:
even got a bottle of hot sauce right here. You can see if I’m holding about a bottle

[00:16:49.74] spk_0:
of Macallan. Ease Tabasco alright? Yeah, of course I know you’re prepared. Yes. Well, this is all you know. You know this stuff? You’ve been working on it for four years. It’s the combination. This is the day Newman, of your four years. Congratulations. I should have said Congratulations on the book. Thank you. Thank you. Now. So you say in the book this book, you gotta get the book. Um, you can. So you can use these two types together. They don’t. They don’t have to be isolation. You can use them in tandem to motivate yourself.

[00:17:42.64] spk_1:
Absolutely. Absolutely. You can. So you know the way that you could do it is you could think about, like, change your disruption is a great way to look at it through both lenses. So, naturally, when change happens, we’re like, Oh, gosh, I hate this. Like, what’s it gonna cost me? You say, Say were part of an organization that’s undergoing a lot of change for lots of reasons. It could be that we’re searching for new funding. Resource is, it could be that we’ve merged with another organization. There could be a lot of reasons why we’re part of change. Well, naturally, the first thing we’re gonna say is Oh, my gosh, I could come out a loser in this. This could be bad for me. So that could be a motivation for me to make sure I’m really working extra hard and positioning myself. But it could also be a kn opportunity. Could be like, Wow. But this is also gonna open up new roles, new opportunities, and And my boss is gonna get promoted. And if I really show, I could do her job, maybe they’ll promote me into that job and then all of a sudden might become a director or whatever the role happens to be. So, you know, change of the great, um, event that occurs to us that we could both look at it from a motivator from you making sure that we’re surviving, but also that we could be thriving and opening up new doors.

[00:18:07.14] spk_0:
So your perspective is important whether you view this fearfully or as a challenge and an opportunity.

[00:18:45.34] spk_1:
Yeah, and I could be even more concrete. So in 2020 that great year that we love so much change that’s all changed. And so much of my work up to that point was in person, like when I would work with non profit teams, they would ask me to come on site or if I would be speaking engagements and asked me to come on site. Well, naturally, all that went away. But then all of a sudden, people begin to get more comfortable and learn how to do things virtually. And then that created new opportunity. Well, how can I serve the audiences? I want to serve in a different way. So it’s every every change brings opportunity. It’s just looking at it through that way and then and then creating some kind of urgency around it to keep us moving.

[00:19:02.94] spk_0:
The one thing I want to quote, I don’t quote often, but just this one little sentence I loved create productive action, not unproductive anxiety, and that that kind of subsumes all the things you’ve been saying in the past several minutes, you know, look at it productively and and opportunistically and I use I don’t use that pejoratively. It all used as as opportunity and not to be unproductive and cause you fear and anxiety.

[00:20:27.74] spk_1:
Right? Right, So So let’s talk a little about about that, too, if it’s OK, because urgency urgency is also anxiety. So what I’m prescribing here today is to intentionally put anxiety into the system. E. I wanna be clear, because that’s super, not what people would be thinking right now. They would be thinking, Well, I don’t like anxiety, Brandon, why are you making me ADM? Or but it’s it’s intentionally using it because anxiety in the right doses urgency in the right doses stimulates action. You’ve ever woken up until the night thinking about work. Well, one of the healthier ways to deal with it is to grab a pad of paper and write down the stuff you’re thinking about. So get out of your head or to just get up and start doing work. It stimulates action, so we want to use it so it stimulates us into moving forward. What we don’t want to do is just sit and let it spin in our head and paralyzes. That’s the unproductive anxiety is when we feel paralyzed. We’re not moving because that energy is not going anywhere. It’s just sitting in our head and and one of the ways the healthy ways we eliminate anxiety is either through activity and action, whether that’s doing work or exercise or those kinds of things. Or it could be through meditation and calming our mind. E I could say I was great at the second one. I’m probably not as good at the second orders. I wish I was a little better the first, um, but those air, that’s how we get anxiety to kind of release is either through meditation and prayer or coming our mind or by actually taken action. So this is a way for us to take action and use it productively.

[00:21:53.44] spk_0:
And if you’re not being productive at it, then Thio deal with you’re not dealing with it productively. Then you’re talking about releasing your releasing cortisol into your bloodstream and cortisol and adrenaline. These things negative, harmful, um, hormones, cortisol. You know it. Tze that that’s that feeling, that of warmth that you warmth and anxiety you get when you’re waking up at three in the morning thinking about work, and all of a sudden, you know, you get like, this hot flash. These hormones are bad for you. So do something productive. Meditation. Get up and work. Just your notes down like you’re saying. You know everything. I’m just I’m just repeating your wisdom. You know, I’m just like a bulletin board here. You post something on my forehead and then you could read it back or hear it back. That’s all. That’s all you’re talking to. A podcasting bulletin board S o U. All right, let’s move to protecting yourself. When folks were pouring too much hot sauce on you at work, there’s too much urgency. And one of the things you mentioned is prioritization. And you’ve got other tips. You got other ideas strategies to. But let’s start with the one you already mentioned prioritization. How does that help protect you?

[00:23:26.74] spk_1:
Yes. So what prioritization allows us to do is eso when we’re talking about prioritization apartment is us prioritizing our own events, our own activities. But more importantly, where this becomes an issue is when our leader or boss shows up and says, Oh, I want you to know no stop doing what you’re doing. I want you to work on this new thing and they keep changing the priorities or they make everything a priority. Then that’s going to create a tremendous amount of anxiety for us. Um, it’s interesting piece of research. About three or four years ago, they asked the question of what’s the worst kind of boss to work for, and I have a clinical therapy background. I thought they were going to come back with the yelling and screaming, angry boss that pounds their fists on the table. That was not number one micromanager. Wasn’t number one ghosting boss wasn’t number one. Number one was the highly unpredictable boss, the one that you never knew what you were going to get on a given day, because that creates a lot of unfocused anxiety. Uh, and so we sometimes get that experience. We have bosses constantly changing priorities or constantly adding a new thing to the plate. So where this is really important is sitting down with your boss and forcing her him to prioritize, basically saying to them, I love all the ideas you’re giving me. What? Or maybe the top three I need to focus on this week and and doing that is proactively and preemptively as you can on then constantly kind of keeping them in the loop on the things you’re working on, um, so that you could be focused so that you could move down a path and you’re not allowing them to add more hot sauce to your plate.

[00:23:54.34] spk_0:
At several spots in the book, you give actual language that you can use in an email or in a conversation, you know, acknowledging that there’s a lot of priority and urgency or there’s a lot of urgency and that that it’s important for our success. But for for me to be successful or for our team to be successful, we need Thio prioritized. But you you’re more eloquent. So that’s why you gotta get the book, you know? Yeah, you want the eloquent version, you gotta get

[00:24:14.17] spk_1:
the book and you have several statements you can actually use. Yeah, it’s all there for in the in the simple way to do The simple reason why we’re doing that is because if everything is a priority or everything is urgent, we’re just gonna be spinning every day whenever actually gonna make any progress on anything really doesn’t want that, and we don’t want that. So you know, if we could help manage her him a little bit and force them to prioritize it, allow everybody to win Well, actually make progress on dhe. That’ll be more fulfilling for all of us.

[00:24:26.94] spk_0:
The ghosting boss. You mentioned that just as an aside, but I don’t know that one. What’s the

[00:24:55.34] spk_1:
ghosting boss? It’s so it’s a It’s a common term. When you can’t find a boss, you can’t find a leader. They ghost you. So you know, you’re you’re like, Where are they? Can’t find him like I need this decision made. Well, I thought they were Well, I don’t know where they are on That’s, That’s, um, It isn’t one of the patterns of of less than healthy bosses that I’ve uncovered in my career. The boss you could never find. We need to make a decision. It’s

[00:26:48.74] spk_0:
time for Tony’s Take two. Our nation is counting on you. You are among the institutions that the country needs toe have hold the folks who are supporting you, who love you. They don’t want to see you probably even hesitate, let alone end. You’re among the institutions. It’s not only law enforcement and the media and the judiciary and the military. You’re an institution of the United States and the folks who know you and love you. They want your work to continue. You need to continue it. Americans are counting on you, so please keep doing your critical work. Keep your head down. It’s I you know, we all know what we’re going through, but there are folks who are counting on you, and I don’t even just mean that’s annoying. Next time I’ll put my phone on airplane mode like I’m supposed to when I’m recording, and I don’t even just mean the people who you’re serving, if that’s your work and if you’re serving people, I mean your communities. Whoever they are, however they’re comprised. They’re counting on you. You are an institution of the United States. We need you to keep up doing your work. Keep standing for your values. We’re counting on you, and non profit radio is behind you. I’m behind you. That is Tony’s. Take two. Let us return to the hot sauce principle with author Brandon Smith. You can lower the heat as a as a way of managing managing hot sauce and urgency at work. What’s there,

[00:27:11.34] spk_1:
Lauren? The heat is another way of saying kind of prioritization. Like what? What is the most urgent here, or when do you need a pie? So you know, if something’s high heat, they’re going to say I need this by tomorrow, or I need this by yesterday. It’s like ghost ghost pepper heat. Okay, if if if you

[00:27:15.59] spk_0:
ghost peppers I gather are very hot peppers. Peppers tell a story about ah, video. You watched about hot pepper eating contest. You mentioned Ghost Peppers last. So they must be the most extreme.

[00:27:27.95] spk_1:
They are one of the most. I I think there’s, like, a grim Reaper Heat one in like a North Carolina Reaper. That’s ah really really, really bad. Yeah. So scale. Yeah. Yeah. How you measure the hotness of those peppers,

[00:27:41.59] spk_0:
e It goes into the tens of thousands. Doesn’t

[00:27:44.48] spk_1:
Oh, yeah goes into Yes. Yeah. It could be further than I can handle, tony. That’s all I can tell you.

[00:27:51.02] spk_0:
Are you hot pepper eater? I

[00:27:52.33] spk_1:
love I love hot sauce And hot.

[00:27:53.55] spk_0:
Not just that hot dog. Do you eat the peppers. Do you use the

[00:27:55.85] spk_1:
radio? But But I will tell you while I love them, I will. Um I just start dripping and sweat almost immediately. Well,

[00:28:02.81] spk_0:
the Grim Reaper scares the hell out of me that I wouldn’t. I just wouldn’t even touch anything.

[00:28:07.44] spk_1:
Called. Probably called the thing. I would want to try a

[00:28:09.68] spk_0:
food food called the Grim Reaper.

[00:29:32.44] spk_1:
Yeah, something I want to try. Um, okay, I think I think the idea of eso it was interesting. I was getting ready to do a talk right before Kobe hit. And I was supposed to be doing going to Vegas. And I was talking to all these auto auto shop owners, 15,000 auto shop owners, and I was going to talk on urgency. These are small business owners and they run their run mechanic shops, take your car to get it fixed. And one of them told me the story is I was going to prepare, and I was interviewing some of them. He said, You gotta watch out for the hero trap. He said, you know, when you jump in and you’re rescuing all the time, um, that’s another way that we perpetuate urgency because we’re always rescuing each other. That’s a real common were kind of relational orientation, we sometimes holding the non profit space because we’re such close teams that sometimes we could end up rescuing each other. It can perpetuate a lot of urgency on Then. He also added, He said, You also have to be real careful. You don’t over promise when you don’t need Thio And you gave the example. He said, You know, you might have a customer come in And, uh Mr and Mrs Jones and they come in and they’ve got a problem with the car and you promised to get him to the car by the end of the day. Um, and all of a sudden, by making that promise, you made it urgent. Well, they never said they needed it by the end of the day. Maybe they’re going out of town for the weekend, and they’re not going to need it till next Tuesday. But you didn’t ask him that. You just promised by the end of the day, all of a sudden creating urgency that didn’t need to be there. So hero traps and making promises that we don’t need to make our always that we inadvertently create more urgency in our life that we probably

[00:29:42.34] spk_0:
need to We could just say no.

[00:29:44.14] spk_1:
Oh, yes, you could. Yes, you could. Uh, that’s a really, really hard thing to Dio.

[00:29:50.74] spk_0:
You have it in the book.

[00:30:27.04] spk_1:
I know it’s really, really hard thing to Dio, and I will tell you it’s hard for all of us in general. But you can’t be strategic whether you’re talking about your own career or you’re talking about your organization. If you can’t say no and I and I will say working with in the non profit space, its’s one of the more challenging things because no often means we’re shutting down a program or service or some kind of way. We’re helping others, and that’s really hard. We love to start up a new one, but that often means we got to prove something that it’s so hard because it’s like a baby to us and, you know, and that’s doing something in the world that is meaningful to us. But learning how to say no is really important, a ZX. We try, navigate the urgency and and sending boundaries. So in another way, we could say this is all about setting healthy boundaries in life

[00:30:41.64] spk_0:
boundaries. Yes, let’s talk about boundaries and the importance of enforcing them.

[00:30:48.64] spk_1:
Yeah, so it’s one. So I think you may. You hidden on something really important just by the way you said it. It’s one thing to say what your boundaries are. It’s another thing to actually uphold them.

[00:30:54.74] spk_0:
I got that idea from you.

[00:32:53.14] spk_1:
Tell you, tony, it’s hard for me to I’ll give you Ah, great example. I know for my life. My rhythm that works best is when I do all my work, which is typically a lot of coaching, a lot of like cons, therapy sessions. A lot of that. We’re working with teams intensely doing that between 94 every day because it’s pretty emotionally draining work. And then I used the time before nine to do administrative stuff in the time after four to do administrative stuff. Well, they’re caught a point towards the end of last year where I was having a lot of demands on my calendar, so I told my wonderful assistant Nancy, I said Nancy, let’s go ahead and open up 88 to 9. Let’s open up 4 to 5. So she did. And she did a wonderful job of booking me down to the minute. I mean, I was I was just, like, 30 minute calls back to back to back to back to back, back, No room for lunch. I mean, I was just going all the way through and about two weeks of that, I realized I was burned out. I stretched too far, and it was causing me to have ah, lot of anxiety and just stress in my life. So I went back to Nancy and said, All right, Nancy, we gotta go back to 94 because this is not working for me. Well, the next time she scheduled a meeting at four o’clock, I had a choice. In that moment, I could have just accepted it and said, Well, Nancy is looking out for the best. My interest And there was no other place. I’ll just take it or I could say no, I set the boundary. I gotta I gotta push back on that. Yeah, and there’s a part of me that said, You know, I could just I’ll just do it. It’s not gonna be a big deal. One time just one time. But if I do that one time now, I just told her that’s really not a firm line. So I had I had to send an email and copy Nancy and said, I’m sorry, Nancy. This time is not gonna work. It’s after four o’clock. She was your apologized profusely. But that’s that’s important to us in life. When people, you know get when we send a boundary, we’ve got to make sure we hold it. If we tell our boss we’re not gonna be available after seven o’clock at night because we spend time having dinner and putting our kids to bed. Well, we gotta stick to that way. Whatever boundaries we set, we gotta we gotta hold.

[00:32:59.44] spk_0:
We’re gonna get to the family. But let’s let’s turn it over to Brandon. What? What would you like to talk about? Hot sauce. Principal related. That I haven’t asked you yet. We’ll get to the family. But what would you like to talk about?

[00:33:20.84] spk_1:
You know, I think when we were talking about this show today, part of the angry, willing to take with professional growth and development, how to help people kind of grow in their careers and and really become amazing kind of rock stars in

[00:33:35.58] spk_0:
there and and thank you for reinforcing for listeners that we do talk in advance. This show is prepared. It doesn’t just come together slapdash. That’s prepared because there’s none of the stuff With the lackluster host was a mere bulletin board, you know, they may think that’s just you know, you and I talked like 20 minutes ago, and here you are, but does not like that. It’s not like so thank you for reinforcing, for validating unsolicited. Thank you. Thank you very

[00:34:42.64] spk_1:
much. Of course. So I wanna it ties in what we’ve been talking about a little bit about even managing urgency. One of the best things you can dio that will help not only set boundaries, manage your time, but also, um, please your leader that you’re supporting is to be really, really clear up front on expectations. If you can clarify expectations, not only your expectations, but your bosses expectations you can prevent 50% of all work related people dysfunction. So imagine that 50% of all people related dysfunction at work goes away. Yeah, managing expectations by clarifying expectations on dhe When we don’t do that, we allow people to guess, and inevitably they’ll guess wrong and someone gets upset. So if you’ve ever had a family member get upset Thanksgiving, it was probably because somebody didn’t clarify expectations with her

[00:34:46.17] spk_0:
him. Guess, Guess to your disadvantage.

[00:35:25.24] spk_1:
Yeah, they came in thinking one thing. It didn’t meet their expectations. They threw a big temper tantrum, and all of sudden, Thanksgiving wasn’t quite so happy. Well, the same thing is true work. So one of the simplest, um, activities. But the most important is make sure you’re regularly clarifying expectations with your leader. And when you do that, you also are forcing them to manage their urgency because you’re not allowing them to just operate like they’re suffering from a d. D. Every day because you’re forcing them to set priorities. You’re forcing them to tell you what matters. Um, and then you allows you a way to kind of follow up with them s Oh, that’s so I would say that’s a really important thing we haven’t talked about yet. That is a great career strategy.

[00:35:49.74] spk_0:
Okay, cool. Cool. Um, so how about we talk a little about family and home okay. Using this, uh, sprinkling some hot sauce. Appropriately. You like thio prayer? You get sort of a 90 10 rule. Talk about prioritizing the 90% of the 10% at home.

[00:38:00.72] spk_1:
Yeah. So for lots of reasons that we probably don’t have time to go into today, Um, what has happened in, particularly if we’ve got kiddos growing up right now is that everything seems to be urgent all the time. They’re travel sports team makes acts as if that’s the most highest priority. Their teachers act like everything that they’re doing in that class is their highest priority. There’s a lot of pressure on kids demands and our demands. His parents, um and and then, of course, there’s all those volunteer activities that are coming our way. And as everyone on this call knows also well, Andi, all too well that it’s the people who are the volunteers that got asked. The Vulcan volunteered the most, right. The person who’s volunteering three or four places is being asked to volunteer for five places, get things done, tap on the people that get things done, and we keep tapping on them, right? And so all those were demands So I want you to imagine, like, a hub and spoke. You’re in the middle, and all these things are spokes coming into you. Okay? And if we don’t prioritize, they’re all gonna feel equal. Travel Baseball is gonna feel just as equal as replacing the air conditioner. Our house, it’s broken. It’s all gonna feel equal. And so we need to create that rather than have been spoke. Um, circles we need, like, a bull’s eye. We need the circle of the stuff. That’s 10% attend the focus of our time, that is our family is that stuff that we don’t ever want to compromise. And and that’s however you define it. That might be time having dinner every night with your family, Or might be time on on Sundays where you connect with relatives or whatever happens to be or or time where you exercise. It’s time you never want to compromise on using that old analogy. If you put the big rocks in first pit those big rocks in first there are smaller rocks and then our sand last. So putting those in first and then you allow the other things toe other things to come in when we when we’re not intentional, we we become reactive and we allow other people’s urgency to become our problem. And so then we re re we react just because we’re essentially playing tennis with things that come our way. You know, we want out of our court. So we hit back in the other court. But we’ve got to make sure we’re attention about putting the important stuff in. First.

[00:38:05.62] spk_0:
The family health. Your partner? Exactly. Exactly. So.

[00:38:37.12] spk_1:
I mean, there’s no there’s no right or wrong answer to that. But those are the categories you already listed. Some really important categories are our relationship with our significant other our family, our health, Um, rest rest is really important. Making sure you’re getting enough sleep. Doctors used to say seven hours was the target. Now they’ve moved it up to eight. They want all of us having at least eight hours of sleep that’s going to be protected, Um, a time down time for us to wind down just those things that are important to our rhythm and pace of life. So we always show up at our best.

[00:38:55.72] spk_0:
You got some other ideas, like delegating in the family or delegating in the home? Um, outsourcing. Yeah, you got some other ideas, you say No, you could say no at home, too.

[00:39:25.22] spk_1:
You could say no at home. Out. So you mentioned outsourcing for folks that don’t know what that means. Outsourcing is a fancy way of saying, What’s the stuff that happened? I do during the week or on the weekends that I’d really rather use that time doing something else. And I can pay someone to do that for me. So maybe that’s mowing your lawn. Or maybe that’s your dry cleaning. Or maybe once a month, you have somebody come in and do a good once over into your apartment or your house. Um, it’s just finding those activities that you would rather not spend your free time on. Andi. There’s more higher and best use of your time until you find folks that could maybe support you in that so you could be using your time the way you really want.

[00:40:40.41] spk_0:
Thio Time for our last break. Quote. There’s nothing as simple as dot drives. Our executive team meets once per week to sit down and go through our dot drives pipelines. It’s fun to watch them have a healthy dialogue and to see them get excited about their numbers rising toward their goals. That drives has allowed us to take those key relationships and bring them to a deeper level. End quote. That’s Wendy Adams, director of donor engagement at Patrick Henry. Family Service is prospect to donor. Simplified. Get their free demo For listeners, there’s also a free month. It’s all on the listener landing page at tony dot Emma slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for the hot sauce principle. Now I’m the guy who does not have Children, but you could, UH, it seems, if you did have those those child units you could delegate absolutely could absolutely could. That’s the reason for raising them. Thio. Manual labor age you have. If you are smart, you’re doing that. You can see why I don’t have Children because e economic units,

[00:41:57.61] spk_1:
I I will tell you, and it’s just like with delegating at work, right, because what happens is we delegated work. We see ourselves, you know, it’s so much easier if I just do it myself because the first couple times this person does it, it’s gonna be slow. It’s not gonna be good. But if you go and invest that time, then pretty soon they’re doing it without you in my house. What that has taken the form of tony is laundry. So I’ve got my oldest. She’s now Ah, freshman in college and I’ve got two boys and teenagers. They all do their own laundry. Okay, there were many, many, many a casualty in the process. Tony the girls Lulu lemon workout pants got shrunk down to doll size on more than one occasion. Lots of lots of casualties. But now everybody knows everybody knows how to do laundry. They know how to do their own laundry and they even know how to do other people’s laundry. So my boys know if it’s girls workout pants, we’re not gonna dry those. We’re gonna hang them and they hang them and they’re doing all the laundry. Well, I’m not and and so absolutely. But there is. I want to acknowledge the fact that there’s, Ah, there’s there’s just like anything delegation. There’s a learning curve that

[00:42:07.10] spk_0:
happens, right? You sounded make it sound pretty good. Maybe I should have had Children after all. E, think of the time I

[00:42:11.22] spk_1:
started about. It’s not a banking, although they end up with once they get to become teenagers, they end up with very creative nicknames for you.

[00:42:24.40] spk_0:
Oh, nice. Yeah. You see, that’s the But I wouldn’t be able to handle the, uh, mom and dad are stupid stage after everything I’ve done for you for the past 15. 16 years. Now, you could You think I’m ignorant and embarrassing? I wouldn’t be able to. My ego couldn’t handle it.

[00:42:33.38] spk_1:
It gets more creative than that. So you’re you’re seeing me. Your listeners aren’t seeing me. But what my kids like to call me now is they said one of my many nicknames is off brand Obi Wan Kenobi.

[00:42:43.70] spk_0:
All right. You’re all white. Your beard in your hair. Always

[00:42:46.10] spk_1:
all white looking. So I kind of look like Alec Guinness from the original New Hope Star Wars A little bit. Yeah, they say, but I’m off brand like I’m like the cheapo versions. I’m like the dollar general version of Obi Wan Kenobi. OK, Cie creative created insults,

[00:43:10.90] spk_0:
creative, insulting. Yeah, Yeah, I don’t think I’d be able to handle it. Um and so All right, you can Let’s let’s just round up this family. This home family discussion with how you could turn up the hot sauce. Turn up the urgency a little bit to your to your benefit at home.

[00:44:02.99] spk_1:
Yeah, so turning up the urgency is necessary as your raising any kind of fully formed adult is trying to get them to realize, Um, sometimes they’re too comfortable. And most parents probably had the experience where you you walk into your kid’s room and you told them two or three times that they need to clean their room and you go in and they’re laying on the bed and the room is filthy and they’re watching some show on their phone. They’re too comfortable. So we use urgency to create a healthy state of discomfort. So you say I want your room clean. You have two hours to get a clean. If you don’t have a clean, that phone is mine for a week. That’s a form of urgency. Yeah, we’re setting a deadline. We’re ramping up the hot sauce, and we’re giving kind of a worst case scenario. If they don’t do it,

[00:44:16.49] spk_0:
what about with spouse or partner? Can we can we go there is that you don’t mention you. Don’t mention that the book. But you got me thinking about it now because well, you

[00:44:22.61] spk_1:
can. You can You can. You wanna be real careful on that.

[00:44:25.50] spk_0:
Yeah, let’s talk about it. Sounds like fun.

[00:45:35.79] spk_1:
Sounds like Fine. Uh, this is playing with fire. So the easier one with the spouse and partner is opportunity scenario Thio. You create some kind of reward system like, Hey, honey, let’s do like, a workout challenge and let’s see what if we could hit this goal in six months? And if we do, let’s reward ourselves with a trip to Hawaii. So that’s a form of opportunity scenario. Like, can we work out together, support each other, create pressure with some measurable goals with a reward at the end? Yeah, Zed, that’s happy stuff Now, when you might want to use hot sauce on. The worst case scenario is when you’ve been asking your significant other to do certain things, um, that you feel like are reasonable. And then, uh, this is now the fifth or six or seven times, and then you create some kind of a deadline with a punishment system like you know if if you don’t make this change, you know, then I’m not going to do these things for you anymore on this side. Yeah. So, um and then you have to stick to it to show them that you’re serious. So this is this is one where so when we do worst case scenario urgency with a spouse, we’ve got to be ready to really, really play some, uh, some some tough hot sauce games.

[00:45:51.29] spk_0:
So hardball and then stick to it, as you say. All right. All right. Um, something you alluded to. And you said, Well, you’re not sure we’ll have time for it. But this is non profit radio. We don’t We don’t skimp on our listeners. Um, you spent a good amount of time, Uh, took off a few things that that got us here. How did how did we end up with this master of this uncontrolled urgency? How do we all get here?

[00:46:12.98] spk_1:
There’s a lot of reasons for it. Probably the the number one reason to just start with the first one on the obvious one. And I’m holding up for you to see it. But our phones thing

[00:46:23.79] spk_0:
that you threatened to take away from your child for you

[00:48:24.37] spk_1:
threaten to take away from your child what this did. While we love the fact that we can communicate with anybody at any time, anyone else can communicate with us anywhere at any time. So all our natural boundaries of work disappeared as soon as this became part of our life, cause it used to be one day, not too long ago that when you left work, you left work. All the things you did at work were at work. All the filing cabinets, the computers, all the resource is were there. When you went home, you couldn’t work. Now we can work anywhere, anytime. And in many ways Kobe is kind of reinforce that even more so because we’ve had to learn how to do that. So now we go back. Employers know God’s tony can work anywhere, anytime. So therefore, I can call him anytime, anywhere. So our phones broke down natural boundaries. So what’s that? What’s happened is now we all have to set our own boundaries. We have to do that as employers and leaders. We also have to do that with our own leaders on dhe Co workers, um, creating kind of the rules of the game that we’re gonna work for us. So that’s probably the most important. The number one reason, um, the other. There’s many others, but I would say if we even go back to 2000 and 8, 2009, when we had that kind of economic recession, Um, it created a lot of force, a lot of organizations to go very lean, and so they operated with a lot less headcount. It was almost like a fear of adding on too much headcount, cause I don’t wanna have to go through the process of letting people go again. And so it created more work than than a normal full time employees can dio on dhe. That’s I don’t think there’s been one non profit that I’ve worked with. It hasn’t had that as an issue where they said, you know, there’s there’s I’m not working 30 hour weeks or 40 hour weeks and working 60 hour weeks working long hours. There’s more work than anyone of us can do. We don’t have enough people. And so that’s another factor that just created Mawr urgency, because you could never feel like you’re getting ahead like going using an old Seinfeld reference. At one point there was Newman, who was the postal worker, and he said, He said, The mail, it just keeps coming and coming and coming and and and that’s kind of what it’s like a work. It’s like we could never quite get ahead. So, on top of never being able to get ahead and not have enough resource is, you know, there’s no natural boundaries. We could work anywhere, anytime. That’s just that’s created an environment of hot sauce being put on us every day.

[00:48:56.57] spk_0:
Hello, Newman. There used to say, Um, cool, you’re in. You’re in Atlanta, right? I am. I’m in Atlanta at Emory University. Uh, is that where you teach? Also, Yeah,

[00:49:03.59] spk_1:
I I still teach their adjunct when I’m not out and about in the world working with other folks. I’m still I still there with the business school there in both their executive MBA and their executive education arms. So, yeah,

[00:49:32.07] spk_0:
what’s it like to be in in Atlanta? What’s it been like the past month leading up to the January What? What was the January 3rd, 4th, 5th? Something like that election highly unpleasant. What was it like? Yeah, share. Well, why was it unpleasant?

[00:50:02.30] spk_1:
Imagine every other commercial being the worst political ad you’ve ever seen in your entire life. Um, that was what was happening on every radio station in every TV station. And the extremism on both sides for for the candidates was just ridiculous. I mean, after watching these commercials, you would say, Well, why are even these people not in jail? It was just just the worst kind of dragging a made up

[00:50:03.41] spk_0:
stuff for them are so bad, they

[00:50:30.46] spk_1:
and all extreme statements and all my doctor kind of videos and and and none of it, you know, you almost not not only want to throw the candidates in jail if you believe that stuff, but you definitely wanna throw the producers of the commercials in jail because of the way they just butcher any real information. So it was just a lot of really unpleasant angry noise, hard to just keep a positive attitude when there was that much negativity. So that was definitely not a talking about emotion and energy. Um, not a pleasant time. Thio kind of be consuming any kind of media that had any access to political campaigns, which is pretty much all of it

[00:50:44.04] spk_0:
amping people up, you know, the, you know, getting to talk about urgency. You know, getting people whipped up into a frenzy over how bad all the other the other candidates are. The other candidate is, I guess, in

[00:51:07.16] spk_1:
the Yeah and extreme polarization Extreme polarization s. So then? So then people scratch their heads and wonder why It seems like everybody is so polarized. G How did that happen? Yeah, right. Eso eso I’m glad it’s over. It’s finally quiet.

[00:51:18.16] spk_0:
Yeah, Should quiet that right. Alright, Brandon Smith, you’re terrific. Thank you,

[00:51:21.37] spk_1:
tony. Thanks for having me on. I really

[00:51:56.06] spk_0:
need another conversation today. Genuine pleasure. I did too. Thank you. Thank you very much. The book is the hot sauce principle. How to live and lead in a world where everything is urgent all of the time I got my copy. My, uh, decimated Copy I when I when I get a copy of a book, I the first thing I do is break the spine so that I can open it up and it won’t close on me as I’m reading. I just I like that. And then I could make my notes on the page with out on the right hand page without the left side collapsing on it. So I So I’ve beat up your book. But that’s because I was reading it. It’s

[00:51:56.62] spk_1:
to be beat up. I’m glad you did

[00:51:58.04] spk_0:
it. I did. All right, Brandon, Thank you again. The folks just just get the book. And, Brandon, thank you so much for sharing,

[00:52:06.05] spk_1:
tony. My pleasure. Thanks for having me on the show. Keep up all the great work.

[00:52:55.95] spk_0:
Oh, thank you very much. And you, you as well. Next week, peer to peer fundraising in 2021 with David Hezekiel. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives Prospect to donor. Simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant a free month. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy. And this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that information. Scotty, be with me. next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Special Episode: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

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Sean Thomas-Breitfeld: POC Underrepresented In Nonprofit Leadership

Sean Thomas-Breitfeld

The willingness and skills of people of color aren’t represented in leadership circles. That’s the main message coming out of Building Movement Project’s report, “Race To Lead Revisited.” We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMP’s co-director, Sean Thomas-Breitfeld.


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[00:01:48.24] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. This is a special episode of non profit radio to help you be the change around racism, people of color underrepresented in non profit leadership. That’s the main message coming out of building movement projects Report. Race to Lead Revisited We visit the report’s conclusions and recommendations with BMPs co director Sean Thomas Brett felled, responsive by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot CEO and by dot drives, raise more money, changed more lives for a free demo and free month. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show. Sean Thomas Bright Felled. He is co director at the Building Moving Building Movement Project. He previously worked in various roles at community change, developing training programs for grassroots leaders and worked in the communications and policy departments where he coordinated online and grassroots advocacy efforts and lobbied on a range of issues including immigration reform, transportation, equity and anti poverty programs. Building movement project is at building movement, or GE, and at B L. D. I N G movement. John Thomas Bright felt Welcome to non profit radio

[00:01:51.64] spk_0:
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:53.33] spk_1:
It’s supposed

[00:01:53.87] spk_0:
to be here with you.

[00:01:54.83] spk_1:
It’s good. It’s a pleasure. Thank you. So why don’t you start by describing the work at Building Movement Project?

[00:02:02.44] spk_0:
Sure, so building movement projects been around for over 20 years, and from our founding we’ve had three main areas of focus. One is what we call movement building, looking at how organizations collaborate, how nonprofit organizations can be part of movements for social change and social justice, and what it takes for organizations and non profit leaders to really be on the forefront of making big leading some big structural changes in our society. We’ve also looked at what we call a non profits and social change or service and social change because we think there is a particular role for human service organizations in bringing about structural and systemic change in our society and that that’s really important to support on. Also encourage organizations like that to get involved in advocacy. Listen to an uplift, the voice and on power of the communities that are being served, and then the third bucket of work has always focused on leadership, so recognizing that leading a nonprofit organization is a very hard job we’ve always looked at What does it take for leaders? But also, what does it take for non profit leadership? Thio really have aligned both the practices of leadership with the values that organizations hold. And so over the last several years, we’ve been particularly focused on issues of race and leadership in non profit organization. That’s what the race to lead work comes out of.

[00:03:41.14] spk_1:
Okay, right? And the This race to lead revisited report is really comparing a 2016 survey for the original race to lead with a 2019 survey for this report. Exactly.

[00:04:04.84] spk_0:
Yeah, so we surveyed people working in the nonprofit sector both in 2016 and 2019 on these issues of race and leadership. So this report race to lead revisited at some comparisons between the findings from 2016 and 2019 to see how the sector’s been evolving

[00:04:55.34] spk_1:
and you did have some new questions as well. We’ll have time to get to some of those, um, you talk about Well, first I got to say, I realize the contrast here I have long white hair and you have short, dark hair. We are. We know in the hair. We are. We’re not similar in hair. My God. Uh, yeah, OK, Sorry I couldn’t help notice. Um, you talk about we’re gonna have fun on non profit radio. I mean, it’s a serious subject, but we have fun nonetheless. So you talk about white advantage in the report versus white privilege? You mentioned white privilege once or twice, but predominantly. Talk about white advantage. What’s the What’s the difference there? What? What? What are you trying to say? A little different than the the more seems more common, you know, white privilege.

[00:05:05.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So what’s the term white advantage? What we’re trying to focus on is some of the structural advantages that accrue to non profit organizations based on, you know, multiple people in positions of power being white. So particularly thinking about the composition of boards and the composition of senior leadership teams. Um, because, you know, I think oftentimes the analysis is very individualistic, right? So, like, there’s an individual white person in the executive director role of the organization that only paints part of the picture on DSO we wanted to have a more complicated and nuanced analysis of what’s actually happened. An organization s O, that it became less about, like, the it one person at the top of organizational hierarchy. And think about it, uh, in a way that encompasses both the board leadership and senior staff.

[00:06:04.44] spk_1:
Okay. And then the structures as well, it seems thio less focused on an individual or individuals and mawr, uh, levers of power and processes policies.

[00:06:27.04] spk_0:
Exactly. And it also became a way thio understand and sort of unpack. Um, how, uh, sort of whiteness of organizations that, like in our sample, right, like, 45% of respondents work for organizations where both more than 75% of the board is white and more than 75% of staff and top leadership are white on. And, you know, I think that for me, that was actually somewhat startling in surprising um, And then we also saw that those organizations tend to have bigger budgets at least was being reported by the staff. Um but then, at the same time, we’re seeing that staff were reporting more negative experiences in those types of organizations compared to organizations with more diverse leadership on both the board and senior staff levels.

[00:07:29.64] spk_1:
And so the overall message that I got from this is that the power remains in boards and at the sea levels of nonprofits, and those are predominantly white. And that and that that really hasn’t changed from 2016 to 2019.

[00:07:35.24] spk_0:
Yeah, that hasn’t well, it’s hard to know because we actually didn’t ask the question in this way back in 2016. But I think that this, um, sort of puts our data in the context of some of the research that board source has done that shows that boards are overwhelmingly the majority of non profit boards are overwhelmingly white

[00:07:59.14] spk_1:
and also not reflecting the communities that they’re serving. Absolutely. Yeah,

[00:08:01.54] spk_0:
yeah, because I think what has happened is that the function of non profit boards very often is less a function of accountability to the organization’s constituency and mission on, because organizations often have a lot of responsibility for fundraising and raising the resource is for the organization to do its work. Um, that as a result of that sort of demand, organizations often have, um, prioritized recruiting from people who holds wealth in their communities and because of racial wealth gaps that tend to be white people

[00:08:41.04] spk_1:
on dhe. That’s recruiting for both leadership and volunteer position board with talking about boards and you make it very clear we’re talking about boards as well as C suite. You know, CEO, executive director level.

[00:08:54.14] spk_0:

[00:08:56.24] spk_1:
So let’s go into the three. I guess main conclusions that the report identifies first one is that things really haven’t changed that much. We’ve already alluded to it. Things haven’t changed that much in the three years.

[00:09:14.44] spk_0:
Yeah, and you know, I’m not sure how surprising that should be. Um, for our sector. You know, I think the change is often particularly in organizations. When we’re talking about organizations where we’re talking about the composition of the staff, that kind of change is incremental, right? I think that what has shifted is that, particularly in the last year is much more consciousness raising much more awareness on the part of organizations that these imbalances, these inequities exist and needs to be addressed. Um, but recognizing that there is a problem is not the same thing is taking action to address the problem.

[00:10:18.34] spk_1:
So you are seeing mawr alright, consciousness raising awareness. It seems like predominantly because of the diversity equity and inclusion work that Ah lot of organizations have done. But it’s just sort of, you know, I’m I gleaned from the reports, just sort of scratching the surface. I mean, ah, lot of it is trainings that raise awareness, but we’re not seeing much action flowing from that consciousness raising.

[00:10:23.84] spk_0:
Yeah, And so one example of the increased consciousness was that in both 2016 and 2019 we asked survey respondents what impact to their race had had on their career advancement. And, uh, for white respondents back in 2016 roughly half indicated that their race. They recognize that the race had a positive impact on their career advancement. So this sort of classic recognition of white privilege that increased to two thirds of the white sample in 29 so one from half to two thirds. So you know that is e think progress, right? In terms of like people having a recognition and understanding that white privileges riel and that it’s positively the benefits of that privilege are accruing to white people in nonprofit organization. Um however, the same question also revealed that back in 2016 a third roughly of people of color felt that their own race have negatively impacted their career advancement, and that then increased almost basically half off the sample of people of color in 2019. So the increased consciousness is both, you know, I think leading people to recognize the ways that they have been disadvantaged as well as for white people the way that they have been advantaged on DSO. You know, we’re still left with this challenge. This problem. That race is clearly having an impact on people’s advancement. And so it needs to be addressed in organizations in ways that I don’t think training is sufficient. Thio thick

[00:12:04.14] spk_1:
right? But you acknowledge consciousness, raising an awareness that that is the first step. But we have a lot more, a lot, a lot further to go. I mean, you know, it’s just

[00:12:14.61] spk_0:

[00:12:50.24] spk_1:
widely recognized that, you know, you don’t just do trainings a couple of trainings over six months and then check your box. You know d e. I is covered. Let’s move on, Thio. Let’s move on to the gala. You know it za process. It’s a journey, you know we’ve had other guests say the same thing. It takes time. Thio, uh, change the policies, the practices, the traditions Even if they’re not written down, that our advantage ing white folks over people of color, This takes time. But you gotta You’ve got to start somewhere.

[00:12:52.74] spk_0:
Yes, and I think consciousness raising is is an important and legitimate starting point.

[00:13:42.54] spk_1:
Right? And we’re just getting started, okay? It’s time for a break. Turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know this turn to is led by former journalists. So you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships, they’re gonna help you when you want to be heard so that people know you’re a thought leader in your field turn to specializes in working with nonprofits. One of the partners was an editor of the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They know the non profit space they’re at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to P. O. C. Underrepresented in non profit leadership. Are you going to do this in three years again?

[00:13:45.94] spk_0:
It’s a very good question. You know, it’s hard

[00:13:48.15] spk_1:

[00:13:48.28] spk_0:
know, uh, in terms of, like, capacity funding, all of those things um, but yeah, I think that it seems worthwhile to keep revisiting thes issues, given the pace of change. Um, having been pretty slow just in the time that we’ve been collecting this data.

[00:14:24.14] spk_1:
All right, Um, anything else you want to say about you know, how the the findings from 2016 are pretty similar? Uh, yeah. Continue through to 2019 before we go on to the next. Well,

[00:14:24.49] spk_0:
sure. I think the reason that we felt like it was worth restating on pointing out the similarity in in terms of the findings between 2016 and 2019 was because, um, you know, from our perspective, it was really important to state very clearly to the sector. But there are people of color who are in the pipeline that the pipeline is not necessarily the problem. Uh, there’s, I think, different metaphors that people have used unpack and try to understand what the problem is of why we’re not seeing more representative leadership at the top levels of nonprofit organizations. And our view has just been that it’s not a pipeline issue per se. There are people of color who have the skills training credentials to be in those top roles, but they face racialized barriers to actually moving into those top jobs to being hired for those top jobs. And so we just felt like it was important to remind the sector of that finding, Um and sort of not lapse back into, ah narrative that, like we need to train more people of color because somehow people of color are not ready toe lead. People of color are ready to lead, but are often too often not given the opportunity.

[00:15:38.84] spk_1:
Not only have the skill sets already, but are willing to, in fact, what willing Thio want. Thio want to advance the leadership in greater numbers than the and the white respondents?

[00:15:51.94] spk_0:

[00:15:53.03] spk_1:
E guess. There’s narrative that, you know there’s a lack of interest in in people of color advancing toe leadership. But you’ve dashed that.

[00:16:01.74] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that part of the reason that’s important is because if people hold this mental model that who wants to be a leader is, uh, not a person of color, then they’re going to ignore the leadership potential of people of color in their organization.

[00:16:26.64] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s very convenient. Well, you know, the folks of color don’t really aspire to leadership. So no need to consider them. So Okay, so you’ve you’ve dashed that it’s not so in two respects. It’s not a pipeline issue. The skills air there and the willingness Is there a ZX? Well,

[00:16:36.24] spk_0:

[00:16:42.44] spk_1:
desire Thio advance and to lead. Okay, Um right. So remember your second main main conclusion, I guess, is there is white advantage. We were talking around it. Now we come right out and say there is white advantage in the nonprofit sector.

[00:18:59.24] spk_0:
There is. And, um, you know, I think that the the white advantage takes multiple forms, right? So I think that there have been over the last several months Mawr written about like, what happened? What’s called now? Philanthropic redlining, right, that organizations that are led by people of color, particularly black led organizations, are don’t get access to the same kind of resource is as the white led organizations focused on or serving in communities of color. And so there’s really interesting research both from organizations like Abssi A ZX, well as echoing green and bridge span that really dug into that funding disadvantage. And I think that our data also showed similar findings, particularly when it comes to, for instance, e. D s of color. And this was reported on Maurin a report from based on the 2016 data but E d s of color feeling like they don’t have, they don’t get grants of comparable size to peer organization or that they don’t have access Thio relationships with funders. And so those kinds of advantages in terms of like, who funders trust who funders will give bigger grants thio all of those benefits than accrue to white led organizations that then create this financial gap between organizations, nonprofit organizations based on who’s in positions of power in that institution. And so other ways that the white advantage showed up were in terms of the sort of composition of organizations and the greater comfort that white people, uh, seem tohave in. Those organizations, for instance, on questions like Do people feel like they have a voice in their organization for people working in white, dominant organizations were both the board and senior staff are more than 75% white. That’s where we saw the biggest gaps between people of color and whites in terms of their their agreement with that statement, right? And that gap decreases as you have mawr diverse organizations. And it’s also interesting to note that the average the mean increases. So both people of color and white respondents are more likely to say they have a. They have a voice in their organizations when they work for POC lead groups. So if you know, funders want to invest in organizations that are cultivating that kind of leader full ecosystem inside of their organization that, you know, make it possible for staff to feel like they have a voice and can help to set the direction for the organization, then you know foundations would be wise to really take a hard look at their own investment and the composition of organizations that they’ve been funding on. DSI. You know, like, are these organizations largely white run or are they POC lead on. And if there are largely white one, they should start investing in more organizations that are POC ledge.

[00:20:06.94] spk_1:
You identify five opportunities which we’ll get to, and one of those is put your money where your mouth is. You just say, put your, uh, you

[00:20:08.83] spk_0:
know, money

[00:20:54.04] spk_1:
where mouth is for sure. Yeah, I mean that’s a critical lever of power is funding for any anyone, whether it’s whether it’s corporate or non profit access to capital access to markets. Um, you know, what I thought was really interesting is, um, when you were identifying whether an organization was white lead or POC lead you, you chose as a threshold for white lead, whether more than 75% whether the Board of Leadership is more than 75% white. But then for for people of color lead, the threshold was just 50%. Is that because there just aren’t enough that are that are at the 75% level? So you had to reduce the yet to reduce the threshold to define it as person of color lead? Was that the reason?

[00:21:02.45] spk_0:
Yes. I mean, I think that it reflects the sort of composition of the sector, right. So 45% of respondents reported working for organizations where more than 75% of the board and senior staff were white on then it only 14% of respondents reporting working for organizations where it was over 50% of board and senior staff where people of color, you know, like it’s

[00:21:30.25] spk_1:
hard to have

[00:21:30.98] spk_0:
a comparison between Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:34.02] spk_1:
75% shoulder, 75% for PFC. Lead was gonna be too small a sample You

[00:21:40.57] spk_0:

[00:21:41.99] spk_1:
handful of Okay, uh, e suspected. Okay. Um, yeah. The experience was a little more about the experience. How people experience how people of color experience work in a in a white led organization.

[00:21:58.84] spk_0:
Well, I have to say, this was surprised, Not surprising. But it was interesting that the data was so clear, um, that the these racial gaps were so much larger for respondents working for white run organizations compared toa the POC led groups. And, um, you know, I think that it reflects what we’ve been hearing from the focus groups that we’ve been doing across the country in terms of the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color working in organizations that, um, you know, I think often feel somewhat alienating. And where people feel like they, um their leadership potential is not recognized or supported on dso. It was just a really, uh it was nice to have the data show, uh, and really reflect what we’ve been hearing anecdotally through focus groups and interviews around the country,

[00:22:59.54] spk_1:
You mentioned three organizations that have contributed to this work. One of them was bridge span. And then what were the other to save them. Save them a little slower theater, too.

[00:23:03.21] spk_0:
Sure. So a few months ago, bridge span and echoing green partnered on a report that looked at the going echoing green,

[00:23:14.57] spk_1:
echoing green

[00:24:50.44] spk_0:
green. Yeah, they partnered toe look at the funding that had accrued to organization organizational leaders who had gone through echoing Green’s programs. And so they were able to then really track and demonstrate that black leaders compared toa white leaders who had gone through the same kind of leadership development programs were getting very different levels of financial support on So that report came out at, you know, the earlier in the spring and last winter, an organization called Absi, which is the Organization for African Americans in philanthropy. On DSO, the acronym is a B E, and they put out a report looking at what they call the philanthropic redlining, this phenomenon of financial support from foundations accruing to white led organizations rather than to POC lead or black led organizations. So they use this terminology of redlining because it’s evocative of historical policy that led to very dramatic differences in terms of what sort of development and investment was possible, uh, in cities and neighborhoods based on this policy of redlining. And their point is that the imbalances, the inequities and where philanthropic dollars flow leads toa completely different prospects for organizations. And because some organizations grow because they get the funding and other organizations sort of. Whether on the bun

[00:25:06.34] spk_1:
isn’t the large majority of the smaller organizations I think you’re special was under a million dollars aren’t Isn’t the majority of those POC lead?

[00:25:08.44] spk_0:
It was, Yeah, it was striking to see that a much larger share of POC led organizations had budgets under a million

[00:25:30.34] spk_1:
dollars compared to, for instance, what led organizations? And, ah, large, large majority of those are a million dollars or under in funding or annual budget.

[00:25:31.18] spk_0:
Yes, okay, yeah, in terms of the annual budget

[00:26:27.24] spk_1:
annual budget. Okay, time for our last break. Dot drives drives engagement dot drives relationships. Dot drives walks you through donor engagement. It’s a tool that’s simple, affordable and focuses you on building donor relationships and trust. There’s a free demo, and for listeners a free first month. Go to the listener landing page at tony dot Emma slash dot We’ve got but loads more time for POC, underrepresented in non profit leadership. And then the third main point is that d I. Efforts are widespread, you say, and their effectiveness is uncertain, I would say, but but their effectiveness is uncertain. You’re a little more optimistic. Um, so, yeah, we were scratching the surface of this before, but you know, say same or about what’s being done, but what the limitations of it are.

[00:26:35.74] spk_0:
Well, first off, I think it’s important to acknowledge that three quarters of the sample reported that their organizations were doing something related to diversity equity inclusion. And so the ubiquity of D I efforts is, you know, I think good. And I think it’s a relatively new phenomenon, right? Like it’s become the topic at a lot of conferences over the past five years. And so all of which is to say that like organizations are getting started right now, Um, and maybe it’s long overdue, but this is a moment when organizations are getting started. I think that the challenge, the frustration, particularly on the part of people of color. And the younger staff of, you know, diverse diversity of younger staff is that I think for far too often it feels like organizational checklist. It feels like a sort of double. Organizations are saying the right things, but not actually changing anything about their recruitment practices or internal hiring and promotion strategy. So, yeah, I think that that is the the frustrating in that, like the ubiquity does not equal impact.

[00:28:43.94] spk_1:
I just want to remind listeners the report is called Race to Lead Revisited and you can get it at building movement dot or ge. All right, Sean, how do you feel about talking? Oh, there’s there’s a quote. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You You pepper the report with quotes in the margin on Dhe there. Ah, lot of them struck me that. I’m just going to read one that was probably half a dozen or so that, you know, sort of stopped me a little bit. But, uh, Pakistani woman, I don’t believe I’m taking us seriously in the workplace because I am a young woman of color. I often question things which doesn’t always go over well in majority white organizations. I’ve been used as a token brown person that za harsh reality Thio Thio read and for her to admit in a survey that, you know, I’m a token. Um So I thought the quotes were very evocative.

[00:28:55.84] spk_0:
Well, yeah, thanks. I mean, we we really think it’s important to balance the quantitative data with, you know, hundreds upon hundreds of right and responses from survey respondents and then also the focus groups that we do. We also gain a ton of insights from those conversations as well.

[00:29:16.34] spk_1:
You feel OK, go into the five opportunities or is there Is there mawr anything more you wanna bring out about the the report itself? Well, this is part of the report, but about the conclusions, conclusions and findings.

[00:29:40.34] spk_0:
Well, I guess I would just add in terms of the sort of d I and, uh, there’s the both the skepticism, but also the impact, right? I think that, um, there’s, you know, I think there’s a lot of skepticism about training, often times. But our data did show that for reserving respondents that reported that their organization trained on a variety of topics. They had more positive views on the impact of training on their organization. I think that just speaks to the importance and need for organizations have, like, multifaceted well around D. I initiatives so that training is not again, like just the check box on or sort of like. Okay, we did the training on white privilege, and so we’re sort of done that the training is a way of both sparking but also sustaining critical conversations in organizations. And that’s why it’s useful for organizations to do training repeatedly and on a variety of topics.

[00:30:59.64] spk_1:
Yeah, I think it was. It was forearm. Or if organizations had had training on four or more topics than both white, the white respondents and the people, people of color respondents, um, felt it was it was more advantageous. So they got there was more valuable training than if it was three or fewer. Could you just take off a couple of different topics that that folks should be looking to training? I mean, not not exhaustive, but you know, what are some of the some of the topics that people should be thinking about training wise?

[00:31:07.27] spk_0:
Sure, yeah. So eso in terms of the topics that we tested for in the survey people indicated that whether the organization had done training on white privileged, specifically whether they had done training on implicit bias because that is a concept that I think has gained mawr currency in the sector. Structural racism, for instance. Um, like do people think of racism as just about interpersonal dynamics or as or as the result of structural, um, and systemic forces that are being replicated by policy? A. ZX well, as implicitly, um, also racial trauma and healing. I think it’s a training topic that is becoming more popular and developed, so there’s a variety of topics, and I think the important thing is just for organizations to be open to having and doing training on a wide variety of topics.

[00:32:07.74] spk_1:
And again, the more topics, the more valuable people will feel. Three outcomes are, um So let’s go to the opportunities. Then why don’t you once you start us off?

[00:32:19.04] spk_0:

[00:32:20.17] spk_1:
I’m sure. Wait. I put you on the spot. Do you know that you may not have him off the top of your head? I have notes I haven’t written down, so I don’t need thio Put you on the spot memorized? I don’t know do you?

[00:32:32.07] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve got it.

[00:32:33.81] spk_1:
Okay. Okay.

[00:32:47.44] spk_0:
First in the first one was focused on structures as well as the experiences of staff. Right on DSO. You know, I think it’s pretty straightforward, but I think the the reason that we felt felt like it was really important toe lift up lived experience of staff working in organizations is because of what we saw in terms of those experience questions, right? Like, do people feel they have a voice in their organizations or not? Right. We also thought it was important to point out that policies have to actually be in force, right? Like organizations can’t just say this is our policy. But if people don’t see evidence that actual behavior and practices air changing as a result of the policy, um, then you know, I think there are real questions about whether that has real impact.

[00:33:22.08] spk_1:
There is, as

[00:33:23.32] spk_0:
we said earlier,

[00:33:35.84] spk_1:
you’re not walking the talk. Then if you have ah, policy on anti discrimination and someone says something derogatory and it doesn’t get dealt with according to the policy. Yeah, that’s a joke. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:33:39.94] spk_0:
Um, we also thought it was important toe, you know, really, focus on the funding dynamics, so particularly for grantmaking organizations. But put your money where, like your mouth is essentially right. Like there are increasing number of foundations, that air saying that the I is important. Ah, nde sort of signaling to their grantees. But those organizations need to take d. I seriously need to diversify their boards and staff things like that. But if the foundations have not taken similar steps, if the foundations have not to diversify their own or internal institution, or the foundations have not sort of critically examined their portfolio of grants like are there racial disparities in terms of what the amounts of funding, which organizations get access to funding that sort of thing? All of that is about foundations being very serious on reflect about being reflective in terms of their own commitments to D. I.

[00:35:24.04] spk_1:
And you have reflecting reflecting your community, which we touched on a little bit, that that was really striking, how you know it’s intuitive. I mean, I realized it, but to see the numbers of, um, Whitelighter organizations that are serving POC communities, eyes like two thirds or something, I think, um, it’s startling that leadership does not reflect the communities that they’re serving, and that includes the board. I mean, you you wanna have voices from the from the folks you’re serving contributing to your contributing to your you’re you’re major decisions a ZX the board should be doing

[00:35:28.54] spk_0:
Yeah, and again, like, as I said earlier, like, if organizations see the function of the board as about accountability as about setting the direction for the organization, then I think those organizations will see the need and value of having a board that is reflective of the community that’s being served. But if organizations have the sort of rationale for maintaining the board is to have access to people with wealth and connections, and there’s obvious reasons that organizations go that route. Then they’re going to stack. They’re bored with wealthy people in their communities on again because of racism. Those wealthy people are not likely to be people of color from the constituency that’s being served

[00:36:15.53] spk_1:
and your last one responsibility and results.

[00:36:26.79] spk_0:
Yeah, I think our sense was that organizations air pushed to track a lot of things nowadays and so, like what gets measured is often what then matters. And so our sense was that organizations should be very clear about what their commitments are going to be to race equity. And, um, you know, really track those commitments and then track the results of that come out of, like, what kind of organizational change strategies they pursue. And so, you know, if organizations they’re doing like an annual review or annual reports, are they reporting on their goals and objectives around race equity? That is one way to sort of ensure that organizations are staying on track on dhe, that its multiyear commitment

[00:37:13.58] spk_1:
it’s gonna take

[00:37:14.84] spk_0:
multiple years of change.

[00:37:38.03] spk_1:
Uh, you know, just pay attention. You can move the needle on things. If you start paying attention to them, you’re saying, if you measure it, you’ll you’ll you’ll be. You’ll be accountable to it. So high attention to it. If your If your statements say that you value racial equity, then measure it, hold yourself accountable and commit to those years of change.

[00:37:41.23] spk_0:
Yeah, and I think it’s even better if organizations do that. Make that accountability public, eso that they’re the sort of reporting is to their staff. It’s to their board. It’s to their community so that, like the statements of the organizations stand with. For instance, black lives matter, then backed up with organizations being able to say. And here’s how we lived into that commitment. Here are the things that we did over the past year that made that riel,

[00:38:10.82] spk_1:
Sean, anything, anything at all that we didn’t cover that you want to talk about.

[00:38:16.52] spk_0:
Um, no, I think we covered a lot.

[00:38:34.22] spk_1:
Okay, well, we did. You know, it’s not profit radio. We cover a lot of ground, but, you know, we can only scratch the surface. I mean, we cover a lot, but what you want to read the details, So just get the damn thing. Uh, the report again is, um race toe lead racing. No race race, the lead race, the lead be visiting

[00:38:38.27] spk_0:
the lead revisited.

[00:38:49.92] spk_1:
Used to lead you visited. You’ll find it at building movement or GE. That’s where you’ll find building movement project. And Sean Thomas Bright felled. Who is co director, right, Sean, Thank you very much. Thank you.

[00:38:52.07] spk_0:
Thanks so much for having me

[00:39:32.72] spk_1:
absolutely appreciate your time. Thank you. Reminder were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives raise more money changed more lives. Tony dot Emma slash dot for a free demo and a free month, Our creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy. This music is by Scott Stein and with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for June 3, 2016: Managing Up and Content Creation & Curation

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Monisha Kapila & Stephen Alexander: Managing Up

Monisha Kapila returns with a ProInspire alumnus, Stephen Alexander, to explain how to manage your boss to boost your career. Monisha is ProInspire’s CEO and Stephen is program manager at Exponent Philanthropy.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, herbert salaam he followed me on twitter and said, i follow your podcast thanks for all your hard work. It really helps non-profits herbert that’s why i’m here that’s why i produced the show week after week, day after day slogging through, but i love it i love non-profit radio herbert salaam, thank you so much for your support for loving non-profit radio and congratulations on being our listener of the week. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into high pope isis if you pressured me to understand that you missed today’s show managing up monisha ca piela returns with a proinspire alumnus steven alexander to explain how to manage your boss to boost your career monisha is proinspire sze ceo and steven is program manager at exponents philanthropy and content creation and curation. Learn what content will move and inspire your networks and how to empower your internal creators. Don’t be afraid to take risks with your content. Megan murphy is head of marketing and community at handup and lacey bagger is interactive content producer at w e t a we talked at the non-profit technology conference on tony’s take to be an insider sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, also by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay for mobile donation crowdster dot com i’m pleased to welcome monisha capella and steven alexander monisha is founder and ceo of proinspire. Helping individuals and organizations achieve their potential for social impact, she’s worked with the likes of care and the clinton foundation in january. She was one of the chronicle of philanthropy is forty under forty she’s at monisha ca piela k, k p i l a and proinspire is at proinspire dot or ge and at proinspire. Steven alexander is an alumnus of the managing for success program at proinspire he is program manager at exponents, philanthropy, exponents, philanthropy, dot or ge working with philanthropists to leverage their resources and amplify impact, he chairs the board of washington, d c’s young non-profit professionals network he’s at s a l e x a n d e r welcome monisha welcome. Steven, thank you. Thank you for having a pleasure monisha managing up. Why is this ah, challenging area for people managing up is probably one of the most important skills that people need for success over the course of their career, whether they’re in their first job or they are an e t managing up to their board on and it’s really about how do you develop a good relationship with your boss? Uh, there’s research that shows that the number one reason people leave their jobs because of their managers and the idea of managing up empowers people to manage their managers to make a more effective relationship. Um, so we have all of our programs we always hear from people it’s one of the biggest challenges they face, and even someone who has a great, really ship of their boss typically finds actually thinking about how they’re managing up can help them to be more effective. Wow number one reason that people leave jobs, okay, that google done some really amazing research on what helps the pretension of employees. They look at all the data on their employees, and they looked at how much of it was tied. To tenure and promotions and teams. And the thing that they found consistently across the company was it had to do with your relation with your manager, steven, you find managing up a challenge day today? No. That’s. What? I like to think i’m getting better at it. Uh, particularly for younger managers, newer managers on younger employees. That could be very difficult to have that perspective. And perhaps, but you put yourself on the other side of the table. Imagine what that might be like. Yeah. That’s always hard to empathize. What? Where you in? In the organization at exponents philanthropy. Oh, in terms of where i sit on the orc chart, i’m towards the bottom there when i started off, actually, i was, uh, not only the youngest employee, but also the at the lowest level on. So for an organization with about twenty staff, uh, it could take a while to figure out how to navigate that god. So currently i’m well called mid level. Okay. All right. We obviously still have a boss. And now, yeah, but now you have reporting people, people reporting to you, actually don’t i i actually ah, managing a program that’s. Where the young non-profit professional network comes in, right? A tremendous training ground where i actually can manage people and bring those experiences back to explode. Okay, okay, and so in the future, you’ll be able to help people managed the help people themselves manage up when you are their supervisor. Absolutely, i would think so. Okay, alright, cool. And, uh, is this something that you thought about as a problem area before you went to the managing for success program? You know, i think i felt it. I’m not sure i fully realised in my head, you know what it was i was experiencing? I could feel that tension in the room with my boss, and i wasn’t sure why i was there. I was pretty focused on myself, right? And i think, yeah, the proinspire experience and certainly others as well, open me up to the possibility of oh, hey, there’s, there’s something else going on here that i could i could really take control of, yeah, so you felt it, but you weren’t around you weren’t sitting around saying i need to manage up better no, and i didn’t have the language either, right? Right money shows. That pretty common people feel it attention with their boss, but they don’t know what the difficulty is. It is, and i think there’s also a common perception, which is that your manager should adapt to you. So people sort of being my manager should understand how i work, and they should manage me well, and if they don’t know, that could be frustrating. What managing up really is about is, how are you understanding your manager? How are you adapting to them to make it a success? Oppcoll relationship? I wonder if i had gone through the managing for success program if i would still be working for other people? I don’t know, i find that go ahead, what were going to say potentially, you know, i think one of the things that can really frustrate people is feeling like their manager isn’t very effective. Um, and one of things we hear from managers that can frustrate them it’s feeling like the people who work for them aren’t good at providing the information or communicating. And so managing up to make a big difference, i feel like i could never work for someone again. I mean, i’ve had my own business now for thirteen years and the show and everything. And ah, i think i just think i would be a terrible employee. I don’t think anybody would hire me. I would not. I would not hire me. I definitely i would shoot myself in the foot in the interview. I i would come across his. I’d be too much. I looked a highlight that left when she made about adapting to your manager rather than them adopt into you on something that took me a while to come around to that idea. And once i did all the sudden it opened up so many doors for me. I really understood what i could do in that relationship to improve it. How it better communicate with them. Um, i realized that, uh, that responsibility, latto and that was with me, right? Not necessarily. With them, they’ve got eight, nine other employees to worry about it. Well, yeah. And tony, into your point about whether you could ever work for someone again. You know, as a consultant, you probably are doing a lot of managing your client on. So i think it’s actually a skill set that we all need. No matter what role that were in yes, you’re right. Of course i do, but i don’t have to see them every single day. I just trust me, i would not hire myself. I’d be a bad employee. Plus, i always want to good vacation days. I mean, i always want the week between christmas and new year’s even just being the new employee a you know, i insist. So there’s a lot of there’s, a lot of struggles, but we get a little personal but that’s okay, it’s me, it’s me doing it. Ok, we’re gonna go out for a break. We come back, stephen, i want to explore that a little more on with you two. Of course monisha adapting to your manager. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive. It tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Duitz welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, steven let’s explore the solemn or how did that help for you up and make you more comfortable with the idea of you adapting to your manager? Sure, i think critical of his process, there were there were two things one was working with the coach really hearing from someone else, the perspective that i was throwing out there in the world, the ideas that i was throwing out there in the world and how i was communicating those just hearing someone else on doesn’t have to be a coach. It could be a significant other it could be someone else that’s close to you hearing, repeating back some of the language that you’re using, perhaps in different ways. It really offers you perspective on how you might be sharing those things your your bus and how that might be playing into very specific parts of the ship monisha having somebody objective, that’s, that’s, valuable, it could be really valuable. And you know, if it’s a coach or steven said it could be a friend or someone else but sometimes just having people remind you people can get caught up in thinking about their boss isn’t like them, or they don’t like their boss and actually just having people remind you that that person has their own set of needs and priorities. So maybe they’re not following up on the request you made or giving you the feedback you ass for, but it may not be because of how they feel about you may be thinking about what are all the things that they have on their place. Stephen also made excellent point. You know, his manager had nine people reporting to him. So it’s impossible for the for the manager to adapt, teo each of them? Yeah, you know, one of our rules of managing up his own execution of the relationship, so really to manage it? Well, that means you are responsible for scheduling, checking with your manager for putting the agenda together to make it. I’m sure you’re asking your manager for what you need health on, because the fact is that most managers have way more responsibility than they actually have time for. And if you can do a good job of trying, teo ease their work load, they will really value you, so recognizing what are some of the things that are prayers for your manager will help you manage up better. Stephen, you have anything to say about that? Some of the practical ideas? Absolutely. I’ve actually i’m sitting here what they work sheet at monisha introduced metoo proinspire this managing up selfish doesn’t work sheet. Honestly, a soon as i thought i knew this had the power to change the relationship. But i had currently with my boss. Uh, it has questions like, uh, how well do you understand your manager? How did they prefer to receive information? How do they process information? So while i took up her stab at that really jotting down things oh, you know, i think she prefers you. Now i think that she likes to have the operation advance. What the manager of the program actually encouraged each of us to do was to go back with this worksheet. Stick with your boss and ask these questions. And it was incredible how open she wass she had been asked. Know what motivates? You know? What are you trying to accomplish? And what do you afraid of? She shared that information. I think the biggest revelation for her, wass no, i haven’t actually articulated that too many of my employees. So even a year later, i’m still hearing her now share those things geever join excellence. So it was like you sort of trained your manager to be mohr sharing with the other people who report to her about what her needs are basically isn’t that interesting? It’s funny, that wasn’t my original intention, right? Uh, in my written original intention was really to improve our relationship one on one, and then that really, er but she took it to the next level very much. I appreciate that. Yeah. Monisha you should charge extra tuition to stevens stevens. Direct report. Yes. Uh, the other thing i would share is there’s actually a great article from harvard business review about ten years old, but called managing your boss and it’s. Probably one of the first sort of classics that created the whole idea of managing up. And they have a checklist in there. So anyone who’s listening can just google managing your boss? Harvard business review went find that article. And those questions that cubine mentioned there’s. A set of those toe actually sit down with your own manager and have that conversation. Excellent. Okay, i love resource is like that. Um, steven, that is a great story you got. You got another story about your success in doing this or or maybe even a challenge in doing this, please? Yeah, absolutely. I think. And i think this, uh, well particularly resonate with younger folks as they’re entering a field trying to establish themselves for a long time. I bounced from job to job from culture worker, organization and different culture teo other cultures. And so when i came to exponents philanthropy, what i didn’t realize that time is that i had a pretty fixed mindset. If you’ve read the book, mind that you might be familiar with language fixed and growth, i wanted to prove myself i want to prove my words, my talent dahna with the with the knowledge that that could lead to long term employment. And so because of that, i didn’t put myself on the other side of the table. I couldn’t i was so focused on, uh, improving myself, i suppose, but not from the right perspective. And so, as i grew as i worked with the coach as intern was introduced to programs like this, i came around to this idea, and as i talked with my boss and she said, frankly, after promotion, we need to focus on the work now that helped me did it and say, uh, you know what i think? I think she’s, right? I think i need to put the organization first and simply doing that and really dedicating myself to owning my job and figuring out how to do it the best i could. It opened me up to all learning on the other side. Awesome, huh? Money. Should you mentioned earlier? The myers briggs assessment? How does that play into managing up? Yeah. So myers briggs is personality assessment. And, um, it’s pretty popular to actually find free versions online, but the idea is really understanding people’s preferences. So the most famous part of myers briggs is, are you an e or an eye extra vert or an introvert and something teo think some typical characteristics, for example, of extroverts is that they liked teo talk aloud. They think by talking aloud and introverts tend to want time, tio think to themselves before sharing ideas so that actually can have an important role in managing up depending on what type of preferences your manager has, you might have a manager that they’re going to want to see something in advance so they can think about it before giving you feedback. Or you might have a manager. We’re just going to sit there and real time discussed everything and brainstorm. So myers briggs is a great tool, not just on the extrovert introvert, but are they big picture detail oriented to really start to get to know what the purposes of your manager and how are you asking them for the support you need in a way? That’s going teo tied to what they’re looking for. Steven, you want to tell us whether you’re ah ee? Aye or big picture detail where you fall in myers briggs quickly. Well, a credible line e i e i can bounce back and forth. I’m definitely big picture. Okay, i’m up straddling the line i would think that’s good. You play both sides. It’s been interesting, teo to shift every time i originally saw myself as an introvert. One of his younger, uh, extra vert in my early twenties, for sure. And now i think with all this self reflection it’s really taking me back, teo, see myself in a different way. Cool. Okay, and big picture. And how old are you? I’m twenty eight. Okay, now, how did knowing where you fit in the myers briggs? How did that help you out in managing up? Duitz it certainly helped me understand how it might be communicating information. Now i want to receive information from others. I think it helped me just take a step back and look inside myself buy-in verified perhaps the few things that i wasn’t so sure about that i don’t have a great example for you right there, okay? And you can share one of the things that we hear a lot. Sometimes people feel like they’re managers are micro managers, they want to get too much into the details, and actually it could be sort of a preference difference that if the manager is someone who’s more detail oriented and the person is working for them is more big picture, and maybe that the person is not providing their manager enough details to hide to their preferences. So that’s an example that we see a lot where really understanding what? Are the things your manager looks for to help them process information can help you provide what will be most effective. So do you do? Do you have students? Participants do the myers briggs assessment on their boss or of their boss. So we have them to myers briggs for themselves, and then we actually have them think about what they think it might be for the broth or to have a conversation with your boss to find out. You know? What is their meyers break? Okay, steven, did you do that part when you were having this great conversation with the woman? We didn’t get as far into that part? No, no complication part for sure. Okay, yeah. Okay, i would say one of one of the teams overall that we talk about managing up is communication. Steven said people typically underestimate what their managers i need to know and what they do now. So there’s often this assumption of like, oh, i don’t need to tell my manager that. Or maybe they think their manager already knows something. And particularly when it comes to a bad news. Sometimes people are hesitant to tell their manager stuff too soon. But what we really recommend when it comes to managing up is just over communicate and really be forthright with good news and bad news. It’s better to let someone know that there may be a problem on the horizon, then to wait and see what happens and spring about them at the last minute. You know, very interesting that we believe that our managers know and need to know more, then they actually do yes, well, and if you ask a needy, they will definitely say that they feel like people don’t tell them a lot of staff. Um, so i think there’s a perception that people who are more senior know everything that’s going on when they don’t actually feel like they’re in touch with all those stuff is happening, okay, what could be such a critical conversation that have with whoever you’re reporting tio down and talk about how much information would you like on and then ask again, make sure to ask again because they may not tell you exactly what they really are feeling? Uh, so if you check in along the way and i provide enough information, do you understand the process low enough? Would you like me to provide more? And that gives you an opportunity to really tweak your style overtime? Okay, avery smart, and so so you’re not just doing this in one discreet conversation, but as you said, checking in overtime about about these things, too it’s a relationship, you’ve got to keep working on it. All right, excellent. Excellent. Um all right, let’s monisha you have cem cem rules about managing up. Why don’t you, uh, why don’t you start with the one about your manager committing yourself to manage his success? Yeah, so the number one rule is that you want your manager to be successful because if they’re successful, you’ll be successful. So the number one rule just commit yourself to your manager success and that you want to do your best to help set them up to be successful. What if? What if your your what if you’re an introvert and you’re on? Not like stephen, you know, close, but borderline, but you’re an extreme introvert and your boss is an extreme extroverts. Are you doomed? No, i don’t think so at all. You know, i’m a pretty strong extra burr and i’ve had people who work for me, who are introverts? And i remember one of them actually sitting me down and you know, i you know, i’m an introvert, and i like to take my time to processing. So, um, you know, the way i work best is if you want me back on something, if you could give me some time to think about it, um, i’ll come back with much better information that i feel i could do right in the moment and that’s just triggered for me like a new awareness. What a great way of heard a manage up to say like, this is something about me she also, you know, was doing her best to, um, adapt to my style and know that when she was giving me things that i would want to process out loud so she might give me something, and i wouldn’t review in advance. But when we were sitting down and talking to it together, i could really give her a lot of feedback on it. So i think you could have a great relationship with an introvert. Extrovert. Okay, steve, steven, you mentioned committing yourself to the organization’s success. What do you what? Do you? How do you commit yourself to your manager’s success? A manager? Yeah, well, first, i think i’ll sit down and try and understand what it is she’s trying to accomplish. Yeah, and i’m a big picture thinker, right? So i’m going to sit there and think, ok, what this ways that i could support that directly never roll. In addition of that, how can i help her build relationships, perhaps down the road? How could i strengthen relationships on our team? So that’s that’s not necessarily something she has to focus on for me, it’s very conversation driven i’m someone who loves to take the time to get to know all the fix working, and hopefully that helped her move along and in her in-kind anything else you want to add about your manager’s success? Monisha um, i think the other piece is finding the right balance, so you don’t agree with everything that your manager’s saying you’re asking you also not just fight about everything. So, um, committee yourself, commander, success doesn’t mean necessarily just being a yes person that’s really, that you respect them and that you want them and the organization to be successful, okay? How about the one about? Oh, you touched on this a little bit of owning the execution of the relationship we have there’s a couple things that are really important here, so i think one is really taking responsibility for the time you have is your manager. One of the biggest complaints we hear from people in our programs is their managers don’t do regular check ins with them, and you can take ownership of keep continuing to reschedule those and ask for those, um i know one of our fellows one’s had her check and rescheduled for three months, but she kept rescheduling it, and and then it happened, so making sure that your manager knows that you were still going to continue asking for that. Ah, and then when you do meet with your manager making good use of their time, so whether you’re in person or on the phone, sending them an agenda in advance and using the time to talk about issues or risk about the things that you’re working on together, you don’t have to use that time as an update or stuff that could be done over email. But what are the things that you really should be talking about and you could do a great job managing up by actually thinking that through the dance and the last thing to own execution of the relationship is really be dependable and build credibility. And so whether that’s sending drafts or things for your magic to review and to be honest about your capabilities, if your manager’s asked you to do something that you haven’t done before, you can let them know i haven’t done it before this time going to approach it, but it’s a way to really strength in that relationship. I love the idea of you providing agendas for your meetings with your boss. I don’t i don’t think that’s too common. Yeah, yeah. And i think it’s a great technique for managing up it’s also a great technique for managing down. So managers should ask for that. A swell as people should provide that for their manager. Steven, how about you, what’s your experience around around all these strategies that monisha shared? Oh, the agenda. Studying is definitely an expectation. Had excellent philanthropy, that’s. Something that is owned. Bye bye. The employees by the fix that are coming to this supervisors. That need it. We’re setting the purpose. We’re making it clear what that process is going to be for the conversation. And again thinking, how do we use this time? Most effective way? Yeah. Is that something you brought there or it was already in place? The agenda? You know, i think we have to think the management center for that they’ve got a great template. Actually, i don’t know if it’s available on their website, it might be worth reaching out to someone there to see if they share that. And where is that? Where is that stephen? In the management center, i believe. Based in washington, d c in washington, d c that one on one. Check in. Okay. Okay. Monisha, we have just like, a minute. A half or so left. You want to see a lot of communication? Yes. Um, this is the area where i think if people look at one thing they could do to manage a better it’s. Really? To think about how they can communicate effectively, how much information they should be providing what’s the best way to communicate with their manager. Think stephen mentioned. Is it? Email visit in person. Um and asking questions when your manager asks you to do something, part of the communication is asking questions. I understand what you’re doing as well. Demonstrate your thinking, you know, sometimes the questions will push your manager to think about things differently, so i feel like communication is probably the one area it’s someone to focus on managing up that they can really dio steven, i’ll give you the last word just about thirty seconds. You everything you’ve said has subsumed in community goodcompany cations yeah, that’s the foundation for that relationship. From my perspective, i’ll have to side with monisha on this one, uh, be more open you could be in your communication. I think the stronger the relationship could have particularly important things, uh, with any given, mission driven organization, or those two really embrace that and be as open as they can with their communications. Steven alexander, program manager at exponents, philanthropy, exponents, philanthropy dot or ge and he is at s a, l, x, n, d e r and monisha ca piela founder and ceo of proinspire proinspire dot or ge at proinspire and she’s at monisha ca piela stephen monisha thank you so, so much. For sharing. Thanks, tony. Thank you, tony. Night leisure. Outstanding. Thank you. Content creation and curation coming up first, pursuing and crowdster velocity is pursuing fund-raising management tool. It was created to help the pursuant consultants manage client campaigns, but the company found that the thing was so useful that they rolled it out so you can use it without a consultant. You don’t have to hire a consultant of theirs. You use it on your own. It’s your tools to keep you on task. Managing time against goal whether you’re a solo fundraiser or you’ve got a team of fundraisers. It’s a fund-raising management tool, it helps you raise more money. That’s velocity it’s at pursuant dot com crowdster peer-to-peer fund-raising do you have an event coming up? Do you want to engage your networks to expand your fund-raising for that event, maybe it’s an anniversary or five k run whatever you have coming up, join it, have it peer-to-peer funded crowdster will set you up with the tools and the sites on the dashboard that you need and this support that goes along with all those you could talk to the ceo he’s joe ferraro, joe dot ferraro. Crowdster dotcom tell him you’re from non-profit radio now, time for tony’s take two, be a non-profit radio insider now, if you’re listening podcast, you may not care about getting weekly insider alerts because you’re listening anyway, but if you’re listening live or you’re listening affiliate or if you’re listening podcast and you want to know what’s coming up before you hear it easy to do, i send insider alerts every thursday. You know who the guests are? You get early links to my videos, easy to sign up, go to tony martignetti dot com the e mail icon at the top right of the page, be a non-profit radio insider and that’s tony’s take two, we got to send the live listen love speaking of live and podcasts and affiliate if we’re going, we’re going to tease that if i’m gonna tease it, we’ve got to go all the way. Grateful love love going out to the live listeners, you know, the cities and states that you’re in, you know, the countries that you’re in very glad that you’re with us live listener love to you listening right now now, right? Right now, this second right now podcast pleasantries. Whatever second you listen whenever whatever timeframe, whatever time shift whatever device so glad that you are with us. Our podcast listeners. So grateful pleasantries to the over ten thousand of you and our affiliate am and fm station listeners affections out to you stations throughout the country. Remarkable community radio i love it. I love the mission of community radio and i’m so glad that you are listening on one of our am fm affiliate stations affections out to our affiliate audience. Here are megan murphy and lacey bagger from ntcdinosaur. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference we are in san jose, california, at the convention center and with me now are megan murphy and lacey bugger. Meghan is head of marketing and community handup and lacey seated for this for me is interactive content producer at w th a public television in washington d c meghan lacey, welcome hi. Thank you. Have you think having a thought here? Thank you. Your session topic is content creation and curation in the real world. Where do those tweets? Gifts and balog posts come from let’s? Start down the end there, lacey. What? What troubles do non-profits have around creation and curation? Well, i think i think it’s the same, you know, concerns and challenges. We haven’t a lot of other issues. We are living in an age where everyone is a publisher, everyone is creating content twenty four seven and we have small teams, small budgets and a limited amount of time to do this. But our audiences don’t know that our audiences want to hear from us. They want to, you know, see the same amount of things from us as they do from bigger organizations and brands. And how can we be strategic and nimble and have fun with doing this? Because it’s supposed to be fun? Okay, meghan, anything you want to add to an introduction? Sort of the problem statement or motivation statement. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, everything that lacey said time and budget is one of the biggest challenges. Andi, i mean, with the session, we just really want to focus on how you can kind of creatine scale this huge content marketing program with maybe just one person, maybe just five hours a week. Really? Okay. Five it’s. Probably one person. We recognize that. Ok. That’s. Very good, because the audience for non-profit radio is small and midsize non-profits so could very well be one person. It’s. Probably one person who wears five other hats. Besides being a constant creator, they probably have closely, like, sorry, i was going to say it. That’s probably one person who wears five different hats in their organization, and they have to do this in addition to being a marketer, being a pr person being three other things besides, a content producer might have hr also true. Okay, all right, so how do we know what our audiences are looking for? Megan, what type of content is appropriate before we start creating? Yeah, that’s a great question and it’s really important to know what your audience is going to respond. Tio what inspires them? What motivates them? I mean, you have to listen, i mean, wine, i think as an organization, you know, your target demographic is that’s a great place to start, but then who do you want your target demographic to be? Who else do you want to reach and think about how you can bring value to them? Ok, how do you assess what those who are not currently communicating with you are seeking? Sure, i mean, you have to get out there on the interwebs and see what people are posting what people are responding. Teo what’re they engaging on dh, honestly looking at similar organizations and seen what they’re doing? And what successful for them is a good indicator of what science says they’re responding. Teo as we’re doing this listening, we could be listening to hashtags, absolutely organization names sure what you know, see who’s who’s prominent on twitter in the cause absolutely influencers on twitter i am, i am subscribed to every newsletter that’s out there as well, just keeping an eye on where the conversation is, what trends are happening, what topics are happening, definitely hashtags following folks on twitter, following conferences like this as well to see what those topics and themes are okay. And lacey, how about on the side of people who are already be communicating with us? How do we assess what what their interests? Well, i think listening is definitely like megan said key, especially on the internet, it’s a very talkback culture, people will tell you what they want to hear and what they don’t like, and you should, you know, be responsive to that there’s going to be times where you have to do something that, you know, isn’t necessarily going to be, you know, internet popular because it’s an organizational priority, but for the flip side of that time, like if people if you’re if you know your audiences watch, is watching video, if you know they’re reading block post, where are they now? What kind of continuity consuming and how can you put your content into a space where they’re already living? Okay, i’ve had guests say that you need to meet your constituents where they are, not where you would like them to be? That is one hundred percent sure you’d like to be producing content and delivering exactly, although on the flip side of that i’d say if your you don’t have to be everywhere, i know that, and i’m going to date myself right now, i think, but snapchat is this cool new thing the kids are doing and i don’t understand chaps, snapchat, quite frankly, it frightens me that’s how i know i’m officially like an old now, but i know everybody all the all the, you know, brand industry people are like chase snapchat, chase snapchat and platforms that are like that. But if your audience isn’t there, you don’t need to be there if your audience isn’t, you know, young teens, young millennials, you don’t really need to do snapchat if it’s not a fit for you don’t force it, okay? Yeah, and just to add to that, i mean going rogue audiences and knowing that you might be one individual and you have limited time to to reach those audiences doubled down on the top two to three channels that work for you. Okay? Yes, focus. You know, i know my own experience for the for the chauffeur non-profit radio. You know, we have a facebook page because two billion people our there you have to, but we keep it fresh content every day, but it’s still not still not our priority. Twitter is because i have more fun on twitter and you love twitter love, twitter, i’m where no one will be able to see this right now, but the necklace that i’m wearing is actually my twitter handle. We’re shooting a video. So what is it like do-it-yourself shout out at lacey and be it will be a lot of notary about doctor who and benedict cumberbatch. So if that’s not your bag like you probably shouldn’t follow me. But twitter is so great and it’s it’s so immediate, like you’re actually just having a conversation with people who are interested in your organization, your mission, the stuff that you dio and they’re there to talk to you it’s so awesome! Yeah, it is. I love the immediacy of it and i find a hundred forty characters to be no limitation it all because you just carry on, so send multiple tweets and then move in private and then moved to email and then a phone call. I’ve gotten somebody guests that way. I’ve gotten sponsors sponsors to the show that way it starts with a tweet and it moves it moves in progress, you know, just progressive, you know, what’s. So amazing is how receptive people are on twitter. You could email someone twenty times, they’d never respond. You tweet out in once and they’re so excited you acknowledge them. It’s visual listening, basically like it’s and it’s, i’ve had people just, you know, favor and retweet me saying something like thanks for watching with us, which is like such a basic thing to say to someone, but it makes their day and i could do that and that’s amazing! I love that your necklace is your twitter idea. Yeah, it’s all it’s, my personal brand all the time. Not really. I just really i love twitter it’s a technology conference. It’s totally, totally appropriate. All right, i know. I forgot to put it on my business card, so i just wear it around. We’ll make it. Let me give you a shot. What? You want to shout your twitter handle since we’re talking about at megamerger, big bird, meg miree okay, okay. Okay, let’s, you know, let’s dive into this a little more deeper and listening. Listen, so many people talk about listening, but i don’t think there really such a good listener. What does it mean? Toe? Listen on the web, listen to a channel, anybody? Well, i think first you have to acknowledge that some of things you hear or not could be things that you like, and i think that sometimes hard for for organizational leadership to maybe here because we want to think that everyone loves us all the time and and that they don’t have, you know, criticisms that they want to share. So i think the first step is understanding that you’re going to hear some great stuff about your brand, and you’re going to have some not so great stuff about your brand and be okay with that, but that is an opportunity every time somebody tweet something negative about you or leaves you at negative facebook comment or whatever the platform is that’s an opportunity to improve, they like you well enough to have you take care of something time to do that. If they didn’t like you, they would just ignore it and yeah, the opposite of love is not hated. Indifference, indifference. Very good. Okay, yeah, yeah, i mean, it’s not but it’s opportunity to engage as well. I mean, they’ve they’ve giving you perhaps some constructive criticism, and you have that chance, too engage with them one on one and even turned them around. Take that feedback, but acknowledge on appreciate it. And ah, lot of times you know when i’ve responded, teo negative feedback in different ways, i i end up then creating a new, loyal member of my community. That’s a great point. Actually, there is sometimes so much value in turning someone around from someone who said something critical to say to you, but then they’re like, you know what? You really handled this criticism and and open and in a way that wants to move forward, and i respect that and i think that’s like that’s such a big step rather than just letting people shout into the void. Although sometimes you have to let people shout into the void because it’s either something you can’t change or there not shouting at you in a very constructive way. But no, you heard me and you spoke to me and you honored my criticism, and now i’m happy to still be part of the organization. It’s magnificent that’s. Outstanding that’s. So key. I mean, exactly what you said. You heard me, people just they want to be heard as long as it is constructive, right? Yeah. Back-up all right, so we know now we have sort of sense of where we should be creating content which channels. How about trying to optimize and leverage our internal resource is for content creation. So it isn’t just one person. How do we start to get some support? Oh, yeah. You have so much support on your team. They just don’t know it yet way. Empower them. And that’s it’s about it’s empowering them. It’s about inviting, you know, how do you even ask people if they want to contribute in different ways, figure out what may motivate them to want a right technical content or personal content or personal story. You can also go outside your organization, partner organizations. People are very responsive to guess. Posting so inviting people in your community to do guess pose on dh. Just help amplify your messages is definitely possible. Okay, there’s. Some tools. That we need teo, give them to empower them a simple camera or how are they going to start to create the content once they’re empowered? Well, first, i think you need to ask them because i think a lot of this is people don’t people in your organization may not know that there are these opportunities to be part of your content production chain, for example, we have we have a couple of blog’s on our website. One is local history based one is this one’s mine it’s ah, the anglophile british tv blawg, which is basically mean, turning out about down abila twentyfourseven but but there are people in our in our organization who are either big fans of, you know, british tv or their local history nards like find the people who are, you know, kind of nerds for the thing that you’re audiences into because i just started writing this block it wasn’t even part of my job originally, but that doesn’t even feel like work for me because i would do this anyway in my free time, right? But so there are going to be people in your organization who are like that for maybe. Not british tv, but whatever your thing is, so ask them number exactly what megan was saying. Find what motivates people, what would move them, too you to create some content for you. All right, yeah, and i would also just add, be open to what people might have to contribute. So you may not have even thought about increasing, you know, the photography and the imagery that you’re using. But you might have an amateur photographer on your team and making that connection and then letting them just go wild on what they can contribute. Okay? Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent dahna okay. Going wild. Suppose it going a little too wild. And what they contribute is not gonna work for whatever reason out. How did we ever manage this diplomatically? Well, i guess there should always be guidelines in the beginning, right? You should talk about the goals and objectives for what you want to dio and go wild within those goals and objectives. And, of course, as the one person who’s in charge of your content creation, i mean, you’re still going to be the curator and the publisher, so maintain that control, just quality control. Okay? You have to make sure they know that. There’s there’s, somebody who’s who’s overseeing this was curating this and that. And that there’s sort of a consistent brand voice. Yeah. I mean, you’re a brand voice. Sounds very like marquetry, but it xero organization has has a voice that that they sort of used to speak to people. And it should all kind of toe that line. Okay. Okay. Um, any any good stories from inside organizations about having empowered non professional creators? Teo, contribute anything? Well, of course you had yours about. Yeah, we actually have interns like specific interns that sign up to do our local history blogged they’re like local student students from g w or local colleges, and they come to write history stories for us, and they get to go to the library of congress and nerd out in the reading room, and they’ve produced some really fantastic stuff. Okay, cool interns. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. So we have similar, but we had individual working with us. So we build fund-raising tool specifically for human service agencies on we had someone that was working with us but also sitting in one of our partners offices essentially doing case management a swell. And we realized that she had this just wealth of experience and knowledge in terms of engaging with homeless individuals, and we saw an opportunity to start breaking down stereotypes. We asked her to to write a block posts about kind of a day as a case manager, and it was one of one of our top performing block posts. So that was kind of empowering and discoverable moments within our team. Yeah, outstanding. Alright. Very encouraging, hyre video or you’re doing much with video. We are. I mean, yes and no, there are some is a tv. Station it is but there’s weird internal things about production in our production office versus online production on our team. It’s very boring. I won’t tell you about it, but we do to a local siri’s called not that d c, which is our team’s effort to go out and find, you know, everybody has stereotypes of d c that we all wear, like in taylor pantsuits and and are just like political wonks, but so we made an effort to go out and find groups in our community who were doing very not d c things like the roller derby, for instance, on dh thie, my favorite was floating yoga, which were its people. Who do you go out in the potomac, which i don’t really recommend but go on the potomac on paddleboards and do yoga on the paddle boards? And so we did a whole little segment on them. It was it’s been kind of cool just to see these nitti things going on in the city that people don’t think, does that that’s? Yeah, meghan, any advice around video? Yeah, you know, we do a range of things from working with actual video production agencies that help us tell stories, teo helping our par runners and even ourselves just creating like short, digestible video content all from your iphone s so it’s it’s almost reminding people you’ve got this powerful tool on your phone and you can make great videos. They don’t have to be totally professional. Production value does not have to be exemplary. No people just want it to be authentic and genuine. And so you can push that stuff out there. And audiences so receptive to that. Okay, let’s. See what else? Wait, you were talking about repurpose ing content that we’ve already created, because that will help us not have tto continually generate new content. Megan, stay with you. What would you advice around with purpose? Ah, i would just once. I would just encourage people to re purpose. I think a lot of times you don’t realize spend time creating this piece of content. You share it. Once in, a lot of folks, forget that they can share it again. They can update it a couple of months later. They can add to it with relevant new, timely information. Um, honestly, i sew a quick example of this way. Published this. Post last year around valentine’s day around compassion and where that fits in with ending poverty and homelessness. Um, and i’ll be honest, we just re published that again around valentine’s day this year and, you know, maybe some folks saw it again, but kind of repurpose ing updating the title, updating again with some relevant stats and, you know, it’s five minutes instead of another hour doing hour and a half, creating a brand new piece of content, okay, especially something around a holiday it’s it’s fair to do it again, totally fair there’s so much stuff out there there’s so much people enjoy reading it again. Plus we have new members who who haven’t seen okay, you want to suggest something? I wasn’t i was at a conference last week, and they talked about the idea of stackable content, which i really like, where you take like the spirit of your two thousand word block post or whatever, and that can then become a two minute you know, youtube video it could become an instagram photo it could become a tweet like you khun, take one thing and turn it into six things you don’t need to make. Six separate things you just need to tailor that thing for the place that you’re putting it. Okay, any examples of that? You can share anything come to mind. I’m blanking on a lot of cold medicine right now. Wait till the end, but you’re rallying. You’re doing fine, occasional coughs, but i could turn your mic down quickly, doing fine. Okay, well, if you think of it free, are you solving another couple of minutes together? What have we not talked about? Round content, curation creation? What more can we sight? Come on, i’d say don’t be afraid because some freak don’t don’t be afraid to take risks and to just make something and see what happens. Because there it’s, especially with iphones like megan was saying before it’s so easy to come up with with a video or or just right like a quick block post and have fun with it like if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work and you just don’t do it again and sometimes things that you don’t know that are going to hit our huge like, for example, we made ah down abby personality quiz a couple of years ago, so sad down abby’s over, by the way and we just basically did it because we thought that it would be something fun to dio, but it was a huge hit for us because everybody else you know, sort of blonde onto it and loved it. And that was also luckily, right? When, like, personality quizzes were thing, but like, you can have fun with it and don’t be afraid to try some of it doesn’t work. Okay, i feel like i’m under pressure now to give you a chance to shout out downtown abbey for a fifth time. Ha ha. You haven’t haven’t quite exhausted your have lots of down. Abby started. It isn’t. I know. I know that way. We’d like to try to learn from some of them out. Anything you got, megan. Anything else that i add another? Yeah, another don’t be afraid. Don’t be afraid if tio publish something that’s not perfect. It’s. Okay. I mean, a lot of especially when you’re a small team. It’s it’s. Kind of about speed, too. Right? Speed, speed and nimbleness. Nimbleness and quantity. A lot of times, too. Especially if you’re like. All right. It’s bog season let’s. Just get him. Going, don’t be scared if there’s a tie, paul hey, you can fix it later. And someone will tell you it’s only definitely tell you, but it’s cool it’s another opportunity to say thanks for reading written blog’s still still very popular. Oh yeah, actually, i think and i wrote the statue because i’m meaning to say it later, but i’m not going to remember it perfectly. Now i think our overall read website growth last year was fairly flat, but we had our two are two sort of nicci blog’s like that was where we saw the biggest both of those increased exponentially, while our actual website traffic didn’t go up that much like the audience is there for things that people are interested in also it’s content you own, which is great. Yeah, i mean, our block is a very great source of really drawing in new members to our community on once they’re there, and once there they feel like they’re getting valuable information, then you have a little marketing opportunity to convert someone. Okay, so you find the block is ah, first first page is a lot of people land on. Yes, definitely that’s how we’re bringing in top of the funnel because we’re creating content. That’s not, you know, hardcore marketing content. It’s educational, it’s, fun, it’s, informative people end up there and they go, oh, this is what’s handup about going to click around. Yeah, okay, let’s. See, we have i feel like another down to now be shot out. E gotta go satisfy my wife for i mean, that is what people used to ask me the most. When i met them, they would be like, oh, i work for w we do local public television, and people would always tell me one of two things they’d be like, i love sesame street, which or they would ask me, what’s gonna happen on down, abby, and i’m like, i don’t know, they don’t tell me, oh, all right, we’re gonna leave with the downturn, abby. Alright, well done, ladies, thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you, it’s fine. Megan murphy is head of marketing and community at the the fun cool place to check out handup and lisa baugur, interactive content producer w again. Public television, washington, d c cool, thank you very much, ladies. Thank you, tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us next week, your little brand that can and the future of email. If you missed any part of today’s show, i castigate you find it on tony martignetti dot com. I need resolution. I need resolution. I don’t know the way forward, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com, and by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay crowdster dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein. Thank you, scotty. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio, May 25, 2012: Charity Transition & Go Offline

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Julia Bonem
Julia Bonem: Charity Transition

Julia Bonem, principal of Career Change for Good, talks about making a transition into a nonprofit career, but her advice is also valuable for job seekers within nonprofits who want to stay. Don’t let your employees listen.


Maria Semple

Maria Semple: Go Offline

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, is our regular prospect research contributor. This month Maria has tips for offline research. The best prospect research comes from face-to-face meetings with the people you want to know better.


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Here is a link to the audio podcast: 093: Charity Transition & Go Offline.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s friday, may twenty fifth twenty twelve welcome again and i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be devastated if i had learned found out that you had missed last week’s show, which was susan gordon, who told the story of causes dot com ah platform for activism and philanthropy. Also with me was professor gen shang. She shared her research on five words to boost your fund-raising do you remember what they were? Kind and caring were two of them? That was last week, this week, charity transition. We’re talking about making a career transition into charities, but julia bonham’s strategies will also help those who work in non-profits already and are looking to make a change within non-profits she’s an executive coach and principle of career change for good don’t let your employees listen and go off line. Maria simple is the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor this month, she has tips for conducting offline research. There is a world outside the web use your board network in your community and host cultivation events. The best prospect research comes from face to face meetings with people who you want to know better between the guests on tony’s take to its planned e-giving, not product giving that’s a block post from april that i haven’t talked about on the show, use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter. Right now, we take a break and when we return it’s charity transition with julia bonem stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl are said to want to nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom at to one to nine six four three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio. Naturally, my guest now is julia bonem she is principal of career change for good, an executive coaching firm dedicated to helping corporate executives transition into the non-profit sector and non-profit professionals move up when she started her consultancy two years ago, julia had twenty four years of experience in non-profit development, very pleased that her practice brings her into the studio. Julia welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me today. Telefund have you, um, what? So what’s a yurt top idea for making the transition from something corporate into a job in non-profit well, it’s very important, tony, to be very committed to a mission or two. Obviously, if we’re interested in animal rights, for example, or women and children’s welfare to really have that nailed down, we don’t want to have sixteen interests when we go out into the market. Although we may have those or the or the standard, i’ll do anything i just want to, i just want to give back really, really very unfocused and really, really difficult in the market right now, the market is a very crowded place it’s very noisy when people tell me when i’m coaching them that they’re open when they initially start with mayor, we have our initial consultation that is fine, but in terms of getting out there and branding, it is really important in the networking in the written and oral communications that they have a very specific focus. The second part of that is in addition to being really committed when we speak to one, two, three missions that they have some form of non-profit experience it’s very common when i’m seeing career changers that they have not everybody but that ah, good, a goodly number of them have corporate experience have transferrable skills, but you can, you know, jump up and down about a mission, but unless you’ve done specific volunteerism and i can talk a little bit more about project work, get into the project work it’s very hard for an employer in this market to think about bringing somebody on board that doesn’t really have an understanding of how non-profits work, okay, before we get into the volunteering and proving your commitment, are there sectors in the corporate side that air that seem like you’re? Finding more people from particular sectors that particular careers within corporate that want to make the move to non-profits than than others. Well, as many of us know and it’s been in the news, the law field attorneys are particularly exp burian sing a lot of turmoil right now with the downsizing of firms and even in house ah, loitering within corporations and so a lot of attorneys air looking to use their very fine, in many cases writing skills and analytical skills to transfer over into non-profit other development work and other parts of non-profit besides attorneys, well, there’s a lot of downsizing as we know in corporate america, particularly on the financial side. And so some of those people are looking to move over with their financial skills with their spread sheet and, you know, cfo skills into non-profits that khun use them on the cfo ceo side. So you said a lot of people initially are open, which is good how can someone focus on one or two non-profit commissions? Well, what i do with people is really start to drill down on what their interest areas are and come up with targets, so as i said, before we don’t wanna have a plethora of targets, we want to have one, but how do you two three figure out what? So we we very often people are able to figure out the missions that they’re interested. And so, as i said before, animal rights children, women’s welfare could already could be charities that they already give two absolutely where volunteering usually people have a very clear idea about which missions motivate them. The mutt most the second piece is what size organization they want to work in, and that could be a cultural preference. I like working in a small entrepreneurial startup, or it could be a cultural preference for a larger, generally more specific job functions that come from working in a major university or hospital, so stewardship or major gifts or an in house attorney, which not all non-profits have and or, you know, a cfo type position as opposed to cfo and operations. The third part of the target, which is usually harder for people, is what function they want to perform so often people know that they want to get into fund-raising or they know they want to get into the law side. But they’re not quite sure they may have been an attorney in other cases in a law firm, but they’re tired of practicing law so they don’t know that they want to transfer their skills but not their job title sabat attorney or general, exactly, and that’s where the hardest work comes in. All right, well, let’s talk, we just have about two minutes before break let’s introduce this idea of the volunteering being specific in your in your volunteer work very, very important, and i don’t want a privilege any type of volunteerism over another. All volunteerism is important in their sector as we know, but if we want to get into a new field it’s important also volunteer strategically. So again, if i’m interested in health care, i might go to my local hospital or hospital that has been particularly helpful to somebody in my family or myself, um, rather than a specific disease foundation necessarily where those skills will be transferable, as opposed to another subject matter broker and then in addition, project management skills are very important, so we really want to dig down in the volunteerism and be able to say ana resumes at the top of our resumes, by the way, and i think we’ll get into branding a little bit more later. What are the project skills within those specific areas that i was able to get my hands into and show achievements in? We’re gonna take a break right now. Julia bonham is principal of career change for good, and, of course, she’s going to stay with us, and i hope you do, too. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding, you’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. E-giving are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas and an average budget, tune into the way above average. Tony martin. Any non-profit radio ideo. I’m jonah helper from next-gen charity. We’re talking about charity transition with julia bonem on executive coach julia before the break you had you had were giving the example of strategic volunteering, and you said, if you’re interested in health care, it might be a preference for volunteering in a hospital setting versus one of the maybe maybe one of the medical causes. Why did you make that distinction? Well, it really depends on the person, but some of the medical causes air very specific, and again, i don’t want a privilege one type of volunteerism over another, but if you have a more general interest in health care or if there’s a hospital that’s particularly speaks to you or your family because they’ve been helpful to you in your particular circumstance, that might be a more logical place for you to volunteer than, say, a disease related, you know, foundation, clearly you need to spend time at an organization that’s meaningful to you get something out of it, you’re going to get great project work-life we’ll talk about it, perhaps not just do something because it seems good, absolutely, like it seems good for the resume is what i mean absolutely so it’s it’s a mix of both you can’t on ly be committed to the mission and expect an employer because we’re really talking about as being it’s attractive to the employer is possible in addition to serving your heart without that mission speaking to you. In addition, teo, being strategic and your volunteers is, um, from a skills and project point of view. Now this volunteering doesn’t have to be on a board that could be aboard, but if they have an opening on, if they have a need for someone like you but doesn’t have to be bored, volunteering doesn’t as long as you’re able to get that project work where you can show some specific achievements. For example, very often, when people are interested in higher education or in education in general, i counsel them to reach back, for example, to their independent school or if they went to an independent school or to their college in order to do class fund-raising, for example, or class organizing or writing for the college, these air skills that are going to be immediately picked up on because they want to involve their alumni and they want to, you know, get that extra volunteerism. Onboard and its project work really important, right? You’re stressing the importance of project work, not just sort of showing up and stuffing thiss type of so you you need to be vocal when you’re volunteering about the types of things that type of work that you want to be doing? Absolutely, you know, there may not be that opportunity right away, but as you get into your tenure and i hope people you know, develop a tenure where they are volunteering, they can’t approach people for project work if they can’t get it right away, because they’ve, you know, made their inroads, they’ve made their networking there, they’ve done their networking there, and they’re able to reach out at a certain point when the timing is right. Okay, so let’s, talk a little about the branding of yourself, and this is this will start to apply to people who are within non-profits already capsule and want to make it just a job change, not a not a career change. Obviously the resume is critical. What of the other tools that we’re branding ourselves with? Well, the resume is critical if i could just go back for second because we want to get the non-profit volunteerism if we haven’t worked in a non-profit before at the top of the resume and their ways to do that a lot of times, it’s buried at the bottom, particularly for career changes because they’ve been using a certain resume and corporate that they’re not, you know, necessarily knowledgeable about how to translate that into a non-profit setting. So how do we get that upfront instead of, like you’re saying community activities way down at the at the bottom? Well, we can have a section called non-profit experience a top with there description of what they’ve been doing, but more importantly, the achievements that they’ve had in their project work, and then we can have a section called other corporate experience. I prefer other because it’s sort of de emphasizes in heading what they’ve done by highlighting it as corporate as opposed to other experience that might be transferrable. Okay, on the other parts of brandon and their three other parts of branding are the aural pitch, which is so important, then goes back to what we spoke about at the beginning of the program in terms of targets, so we want to be able to say very specifically and it’s very much like a business pitch for those of us who have mbas air transferring over from corporate sector or raising venture capital, for example, who we are, what we’ve accomplished with some specific examples to examples, preferably what we want to do next. And this is the most difficult part are unique value proposition. Okay, let’s, let’s. Come back to the aural pitch and the details let’s just lay out what? What? What are branding methods are right now? Well, that’s one of them on paper, we also want to have well online. We also want to have in written form. Arlington on arlington needs to have the key words in that very important real estate right below our name what we want to do, it doesn’t necessarily have to reflect what we’re doing right now. So i have somebody, for example, who is not a director of operations right now but has director operations, you know, analytical skills, strong writing, for example, and then they can echo those within the linked in profile in the summary and specialty section. The idea is to try and be found, if you will, by people that are interested in your background as employers and as recruiters to a certain extent, which we’ll talk about later and also anywhere you’re going to be talking to somebody, either in a networking context, networking with hiring managers or for a job interview, you’re going to be checked out on the web and so it’s going to be a regular google check and also on linked in check, and people want to see what you’re about, whether you’re going to fit in based on your experience and based on the way you present yourself, okay? And there’s there’s one more tool that we need to have, right? Yeah, business card. The business card is really important, and that also has two echo what is being said under that real estate onto your name, if you will and at the top of your resume. Okay, so this is you shouldn’t be giving out for job search purposes. Career change purposes. The business card of your current employment. Well, you can on some people feel uncomfortable carrying a second card, but what i would say is optimal is to carry a second card that has more than just your name. Your email address your linked in and your phone number, which is very important, but also those keywords about what you were looking for, what you’ve done in the past so fund-raising professional major gifts, an annual giving or attorney non-profit expertise, okay? And what if you’re making the career change? What then? It should echo what your linkedin says about what you’re aspiring to absolutely aspiring is okay, we don’t necessarily have to make a ha one hundred percent history of what we’ve done on the business card. We can position ourselves because it’s all about marketing, positioning, ok, so we have the resume, the aural pitch linked in profile and and your business card absolutely what’s another. I think people get hung up on the reservation. I would ask you what what’s, another piece of advice for the resume. Just a really succinct profile about what you want to do, what you’ve done, what your core competencies are at the top. In addition to the experience that we talked about in the non-profit and other sections with quantifiable project work numbers, people get caught up on sometimes not having numbers. Numbers don’t have to be dollar signs, although that is important if you have them also know if you if you coordinate events or or you’re an events professional or you aspire to be an events professional, how many events did you do in a year? How many people attended? How many people volunteers? Did you organize anything that helps in in the quantification of what you think she knows where all those important outcomes that you mentioned earlier? Absolutely what’s your advice on length of resume two pages this fine in the non-profit setting some career changers get let’s unless these days, but particularly people who have been on wall street in the financial sector that’s a demand often that they be on one page in their own profession. I think that you, if you have, if you’re out ten years, say even five you can go to a page and a half ten, i would say more like two three is excessive, i think in this market, ok, even for someone who’s got maybe twenty years, twenty five years experience, and they’re looking to make the change. Often those people will do a summary bio on a separate sheet of paper that they can submit if the employer’s interested, but certainly for first queries. I think that two pages is is the limit. Um, i mean, i could do my life in two paragraphs. One has three sentences. So concise is good. Absolutely achieved. Very little. It’s. Easy for me to convey. Convey what i have done. Well, it goes back to the marketplace. It’s. A very crowded marketplace. They say that on average and employer will look at your resume for ten seconds and you have to be able to capture in in six thickness and often in bullet points, which i really like. Ah, a clear and concise message. Okay, let’s, talk a little more about linked in. You gave a little tease about what should be on linked in profile. That important, that important real estate right below the name. Because that’s going to be seen right after what else around lincoln? I like summaries that are in the first person. I think very often when you kind of talked about here in the third person people trying to sound academic or, you know, smart tony martignetti was this and that i right? Yeah. It’s just i bring people in, and that goes. To the photo as well. The photo you want a snapshot, you don’t have to look like you know it’s a studio, you know, perfect portrait, but just to bring people in, a lot of people don’t have photos. A lot of people have very casual photos, and i like something that brings you in both the language and the visual, and then the summary section is really important to position yourself again. This is the section this’s, the narrative where you write your own paragraph, not where each job appears. Supper absolutely, that is the central summary. Go ahead, exactly. So you want to talk about your achievements again? I’m really harping achievements because they’re really important, and then you want to position yourself as you do in the oral pitch, as you do, you know, hopefully at the top of your resume about what you’re looking for and why you as opposed to anybody else in the market and those might be specific degrees that you have. It might be that you lived abroad. It might be any number of things that you bring to the project experience to the market that others may not replicate in the same way, then, on the specialties section i really like and i like a list of what you’ve done proposal writing, if you’re an attorney and this is where you would bring in your project, work from the volunteering absolutely, but in the skills and it’s called out a special specialties is it’s called that on link toga there’s, a relatively new section as well. I won’t call it new new, maybe a year to old called volunteer experiences and causes where you want to really bring that up front above, often depending on how comfortable you feel about and how involved you’ve been above the work experience. Okay? Oh, and you can move the sections around sections around now. Oh, i don’t know if people know do you know how to do that specifically? Go into the edit section where you work iss and you can bring that up? I believe i don’t know the specific, okay, but there is a way to change is a sequencing. This sequencing is really important, and then the skills come in again, where you can choose specific name tags for what you’ve done and those air also searchable by potential employers and colleagues okay, so oh, god and then groups is really important. You can choose up to fifty groups and linked in. I don’t know that you want all the e mails that come from that, but you could do daily or weekly. Jj, i just repeated change your preferences for each for each group individually you can have. So if one group is really important to you, you can get daily emails, others less important. Get weekly digests absolutely and it’s really important to start contributing selectively. I mean, you don’t want to spam everybody but as a thought leader in some of those groups, so i’m a career coach. I may want to go to one of the groups that i belong to non-profit transitions, for example, non-profit boards and start talking about some of these issues, and people will often do in lincoln in in messages to me as a result of those postings where they post questions and we start to develop a relationship. Okay, we spent a good amount of time on linked him, but it’s one of the four important tools and for people who don’t have it, they obviously need to have it they need to have it also, tony, because we need to develop over one hundred connections often we want ends to certain organizations were applying tio we’re interested in certain organizations learning more about them. It’s very difficult if you don’t have a broad network either online or offline or both to find people that can make the introductions for you into the organizations and for the opportunity, believe it or not, we have just ah committed a half or so left let’s talk a little about networking because that’s critical and we’ve been talking about online networking what’s your advice around face-to-face networking. Well, first, we want to look into who is within our immediate network family, friends, people that we know on board spouses of those people who are on boards. A second piece are events, and i counsel people to go to at least one of them a week from their alma mater, possibly in an industry specific event, so it could be the support center for non-profit management, women in development, association of fund-raising professionals, junior league sponsors a lot of events cope if you’re interested in events specifically event organizing council on protocol executives, that’s group okay, okay, and then we want to start to tap into the hidden job market where we actually list out organizations that were interested in and use linked in and other connections to try and find the hiring managers within those organizations and take meetings with them. The hiring managers not just that’s, not the hr people. This is the manager who’s your you’ll be working for at a sylar grantwriting hopefully working for starting out with a networking relationship that you hopefully keep up over time, and when an opportunity becomes available either within their organization or another one, they have a positive impression of you and are able to either hyre you refer you to that opportunity, we have to stop there. Osili bonham is. Julia bonham is principal of career change for good. She started her consultancy two years ago when she had twenty four years of experience in non-profit development. My thanks to julia, and right now we’re going to take a break, and when we returned, it is tony’s. Take two, stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s, time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour in april, i had a block post called it’s planned giving, not product e-giving and i wanted to make people aware that there are some financial advisors who sell products like life insurance and annuities, and often they want to offer their help to your plans e-giving program. But often your program is not their first interest. Their first interest is earning commissions on the financial products that they sell and it’s amazing how when you talk to them, their best solution for your plan to giving program is just happens to be the product that they sell. This does not apply to all financial well, never financial advisors, but all people who sell financial products. I in fact, when i do seminars for clients, i routinely include somebody who is a life insurance broker, but the person that i use understands the role of life insurance in a broader plan to giving program, and there are people who cellphone ansel products who don’t recognize that, and they just think that the basis of your programme, as i said, should be the products that they sell. So you just want to be aware of self interest among some people who are offering to help your plan e-giving program? Do they have your plan e-giving program and your donors as their first interest? Or is there something else going on? And that post is from april it’s called it’s planned e-giving not product giving, and you’ll find that my blogged at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for for friday, may twenty fifth twenty twelve it’s the twenty first show of the year. Maria semple is with me. Maria, how you doing? Hello, how are you today? I’m doing terrific, lee, you are the prospect finder. You are also an experienced trainer and speaker on prospect research. And people will find your website at the prospect finder dot com and they’ll also find your book, which is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now. And maria simple. Welcome back. Thanks so much for having me back, tony. My pleasure. As always, we’re talking about go off line. There are things it sze hard for me to believe that there are actually places that people can go for prospect research and they’re not on the web, is this actually a truth? It is it is absolutely so you know, i i was thinking about this because i do a lot of networking, and sometimes i will see non-profit executives attending, and it seems as though it’s definitely more than smaller to midsize non-profit so that would be your audience of listeners. Tony and i was thinking about how someone who might be an executive director or a development director who is looking to do some more prospect research, whether they’re doing reactive or pro active research, and we’ve talked about that in the past couple times where you may have certain people you’re looking to gain more information on or you’re looking to just get more individuals aware of the great mission of your non profit organization and therefore spread the message, and hopefully they get engaged and become donors. So i was thinking about some of those offline activities and thought we might concentrate on that for this particular segment. Yeah, sounds good, let’s see? So when they were talking about shops where there isn’t a devoted prospect researcher and maybe, you know, i think later on we may we may bring in those shops where there is a devoted prospect researcher, because there are things that they could be doing also that are not online, so we’ll get to that. But the board is for smaller shops, the board is a good place to start. Is that right? The board is a great place to start, so if they really understand how, how, just constantly keeping their antenna up, for example, when they’re out and about in the community, doing other community service or in their business world if they’re able to just i kind of know what to listen for in terms of engaging more people for your non-profit working okay on dh, what are we asking? Boardmember is to listen for what specifically what instructions should we be giving them? So i think it be great to give them instructions. First of all, they need to be very clear and understand everything that your own organization does, so that when they’re out engaging with people and they’re having a conversation and letting people know that they serve on a specific board on, and they should be very proud of that their ambassadors for your organization and then they engage in a conversation, you know, let’s say you they are a boardmember for a local why? And they happen to be talking about something, some aspect of the children’s programming, and if they happen to notice that that seems to really catch the attention of the person that they’re speaking with it’s definitely an opportunity to engage them further, invite them in for a tour. Uh, maybe invite them to an upcoming cultivation event or gala event or something like that indefinitely on opportunity, a door has been opened really for you to get more information and engaged that person further. My first guest today, julia bonem talked about for people changing jobs, having an aural pitch should should board members have something similar? You know, the elevator pitch, you know, that would probably be great, of course, when they’re out and about and networking there, they’re thinking about their own elevator pitch, but certainly they should have a very concise the description of what the organization does in such a way that it’s not going to bore the person to tears, that’s listening to them, but certainly will make the person se gi tell me more about that organization sounds fascinating. So, yeah, that’d be great, you know, speak. Speaking of other guests that you’ve had on your show, tony, you had someone on on april twentieth who was from morgan stanley, her name melanie dellaccio burghdoff schnoll begun begun, and she talked about something called radical list. Elearning and that really kind of piqued my interest because that’s, exactly what we’re talking about here is radical listening, so moving the donor or the prospective donor and really at some point that will help you to form a valuable proposal. So she talked about the aspect of putting on your listening ears. I’m putting some information out there and waiting for that reaction. So in terms of prospect research and you’re out and about in the community and doing your offline activities, as i call it it’s important to really put those listening ears on and and understand what the person is communicating to you and then all importantly, making sure that you go back and capture that information in some sort of a call report. Uh uh, maybe create a new donor record in your donorsearch off where a donor prospect and capture any important pieces. Of information you’ve gleaned from that conversation. Okay, we’re going to talk about the coal reports shortly thiss doesn’t stop with just the like the fund-raising or development committee that this should be the full board, i think no, i think it should be the full board. Certainly the fund-raising or development committee is most focused on fund-raising but really, the entire board has a fiduciary sponsor ability to the organization and the full board. They’re all ambassadors, and they are they are all every one of them ambassadors. So, you know, there are plenty of ways to get them up to speed on the fact that even though they may not be totally comfortable in being the person asking for money, there are certainly a lot of other points along the development, a cycle that they can be very helpful for they can host cultivation events, they can invite people to those events, they could certainly get involved in thanking people in stewarding people, and every one of those points along that development spectrum is an opportunity for the boardmember to engage people, to again be an ambassador for your organization and gathered valuable, valuable information that we probably will not find online. Yeah, i blogged about this at one point where saying that you’re your your best prospect research and of course i’m not a prospect researcher, but i believed that i still believe that you’re best prospect research comes from face-to-face meetings on, in fact, that was just happen to have it here it was called best prospect research comes from the prospect on dh that was blood that in july two thousand ten, right? I had an opportunity to review that because i wanted to make sure you want to make sure that i i covered, you know, any of the points that you brought across in that, and they were all excellent point, you know, i like the way you talk about really, you know, sitting down over some sort of a meal if it can’t be a complete meal, obviously, you know, you can meet for a cup of coffee or something like that, but there’s, really, you’re you’re right, tony there’s something about sitting down across the table from somebody and in a more relaxed atmosphere, as opposed to a planned meeting in an office or something, which then feels very much like a business meeting i like, i like that you’re you know, you’re sharing a physical space, you’re probably not sharing the food because you don’t know the person that well, but you’re sharing a physical space and there aren’t going to be interruptions by assistance and other people coming in or calling the office. Of course, people do have cell phones, but usually they’re polite enough to turn those off or at least not take the call when it comes through. The thing i like about meetings over a meal is everybody understands the flow, you know, we have a general idea when the server is going to come and bring water, and then when they’re goingto take the order and roughly when the food is going to come and, you know, this sort of there’s a flow that everybody understands, but when you’re in someone’s office, the flow is totally under their control, and i like a more neutral, uh, space that everybody understands the timing of right, and i think that people then will open up a little bit more, you know? They most people tend to live to talk about themselves and their family, so it’s definitely. An opportunity for you as putting on your prospect research had, if you will, to gather more information on those missing puzzle pieces that you perhaps did not readily have available in internet databases very often information about a spouse and about their children. Those are usually harder pieces of information to find on the internet unless there’s been really great biographical articles written on that person already, which is more a rarity than not know. So in a one hour meeting, you can learn a lot that could take you very much longer than that to find out on the web, and then you might not even find it right like that radical listening? Yeah, just, you know, and so they’re like i said there’s that point along the continuum of fund-raising cycle that doesn’t involve the actual ass. So gathering that information and and understanding what pieces you may have missing from your your prospect research report or your donor file is definitely important as well. Let’s go back to directly to the board there’s another way that they could be involved formally, which is, and i’ve talked about it on the show, having them screen lists of people like peer reviews, absolutely what? How does that take shape was that you would want to make sure, first of all, that everybody understands they’re coming to this meeting, this gathering and that, and that should be done really in a private office space, not in a public space. So you want to have that, as, you know, a focus meeting on doing a a peer review session or prospect review session, they’re coming. Ideally, you should be coming to the table with list of prospective donors that you’re hoping to gleam or information about these air prospects and maybe even just suspects and maybe even just suspects want to explain what a suspect is. People may not know the difference well, so that might be somebody who you’ve heard about in the community. They happen to be engaged with other non-profits do similar type of work to yours. Sametz you think that they may be wealthy, but you want to kind of have an idea before you start delving too far along into this, you know, prospect research process, so maybe they actually know them and can give you some additional information, right? But at this point a suspect, you know very little about you just have those beliefs that you described on dh opinions about what they might be interested in, right? Exactly. Okay, so so how does this peer review screening worked then of the other board? So ideally, if you couldn’t bring some names to the table for people to look at whatever you might already know, some very basic information about the individuals where they reside, where they work, um, and again, this is all very confidential, and i also recommend that anything that you do print out in these reports on dh circulate amongst the committee members stays in that room. It does not leave, so i’m very sensitive to trying to keep information all as confidential as possible don’t let people take take the list home with them or email it to people who can’t make the meeting shouldn’t do that. Well, if you have some sort of a secure, more secure email system, you know something that would allow you teo securely share the information? Yes, you could do it that way. The person can’t make the meeting, but the best feedback is really going to come when they have that. Interplay amongst each other and, you know, saying, oh, yeah, i’ve heard about that person and, you know, i happen to know a lot about their business or their very new to the community, and i know they have a wife and two young children, so it may spur on additional thoughts and conversations that simply won’t take place if you just female out a list and say, let me have your feedback on this, you know, um, let’s talk about family foundations for a minute because i find that when non-profits are really looking to expand, uh, their donor full and get proactive about getting more names in the pipeline, i usually tell them what focus on some family foundations in the community because these are people that have taken philanthropy to a new level, have gone the step of creating their own family foundation. So let’s, take a look at these families and see if they might be suitable prospects for us so you can use something as simple as guide star most non-profits will have access to their premium level service for free so you can actually do this type of research, come up with names of family foundation’s let’s, say, in twenty five or fifty mile radius of your zip code and then bring those names to the table, along with the trusty names affiliated with each foundation. So it’s an opportunity for you to walk into a development committee or a board meeting or a peer review session and say, my research has shown that we have one hundred and fifty family foundations in our nearby communities, that we serve here’s, a list of them here, the trustees. Does anybody have a connection to the foundation way have only about thirty seconds before a break, where will people find this guide? Star premium service that you’re saying is free guide star g u i d e s t a r dot or ge if they maintain their own non-profit the report on guide star, they will also have access to a premium level service access. Okay, and you and i have talked about that before we’re going to take a break. Maria simple, the prospect finder, will stay with me. We’re talking about your offline activities for prospect research. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio. Twenty four hours. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit. You hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio hyre. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Talking. Welcome back, come with maria simple, the prospect finder, but let’s talk a little about the importance of call reports capturing this information that that we find in our face to face meetings or just everything is not a meeting, just a chance running into somebody. Yes, absolutely. So a call report would be something that we see ideal to have every executive director development director boardmember prepare after they’ve had it sit down meeting with someone or perhaps even a phone conversation with someone so it’s important to capture that information as quickly as possible after the conversation has taken place, there are going to be tidbits of information that you’re going to glean from that conversation about maybe some very citic aspect of your programming going back to the earlier example of the y why serves of such a wide variety of age for people right from instant and learning how to swim all the way up, tio senior citizens and programming for them. So it’s important to understand, perhaps what aspect of your programming? Maybe they really love the aspect of senior citizens getting in the pool, doing water aerobics or something like that, you know, so you can engage them further in conversation about programming for seniors, so it is important tio lather that information and capture it somewhere you’re going to forget the information. Our memories are very short and it’s important not only to gather the information for an immediate thie immediate near future of when you’re going to further cultivate and solicit that person, but also for the longevity of the organization, you know, in the fund-raising world in the nonprofit world, people move around a lot. So so what do we want to capture in these kottler force? What? What sections should there be? I think that you should be making sure you capture information again about specific programming they’re interested in general age groups. They’re interested in helping what? What are their? What are their hobbies and interests? So that might give you some idea of their level of well in terms of how they spend their free time and all the personal sort of biographical information we took with children’s children, families, what other boards do they serve on? That’ll give you so much information if you know what other boards they serve on, you’ll want to make note of that because again, where they’re serving on boards, they’re probably donating and you can sometimes find even at what levels they’re donating by tapping into specific databases or even going to the web site of that particular non-profit if they have an annual report in a pdf format on their website, you might be able to glean information about what level of e-giving they’re involved in with that particular non-profit so it’ll help you formulate and ask a little better when the time con when the time comes right and these things reports should probably probably be confidential in the office right now, but they should also be shared. They should be shared with the people that need to see the information. Okay, so first of all, the information should all be very factual. I always say to people, when you’re typing up any kind of prospect, profiles are putting information into your donor-centric self is more of an investigative reporter and state everything very factual, you know, date of divorce. If there’s been a divorce or something like that, you don’t need to say anything further about the divorce fight. What you might have heard that maybe in in public circles, you know, i’ve heard the standard that you shouldn’t put anything in a call report or really, in writing or e mails that you wouldn’t want that you’d be embarrassed if the person you’re writing about saw right, and in fact they have the right to walk into your non-profit at any time and asked to see their donor record that you do want to be very cognizant to that at all times and write your report with that i wear go ahead, we have just a couple minutes before break. Go ahead. Yeah, so yeah, just to make sure that the information that you wouldn’t be able to find elsewhere online can perhaps be gathered from any conversations you have let’s talk about, ah, hosting cultivation events for four suspects now that we’ve identified what a suspect is, and for prospects, this is another good wayto meet people and it’s it’s, not the one on one lunch, which could be a little off putting to some people, right? So cultivation events are great and there you will definitely want to have your radical listening ears on prices. So you wanna have if you have an opportunity to make sure that you engage all of your board members to have the same radical listening ears on who are attending this event that yeah, it’s a great opportunity in very often they’re held in someone’s home and so again, it’s a more relaxed atmosphere, you have an opportunity to present a sum information about your non-profit and their importantly, there’s no ask made at that event it is purely for cultivation purposes only. And if you state that the event is going to be an hour long, keep it to an hour long. You know, people’s time is very valuable, so it’s an opportunity to to fill in the blank, some missing pieces that you might have on people. Or maybe it’s the first time you’re getting any information, perhaps you’ve not done any prospect research on them at all, and meeting them at this cult patient event really kind of raises your antenna a bit to say, wow, this is someone we need to engage further and learn a lot more about you could use your board to invite people to the to the to the meeting that to the event that they might know people that they may know yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And that and that is a great way to engage your board. Okay, so you’re not asking them to ask for money. Just bring some people to the table, right? Maria, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having me on the block with those offline activity. My pleasure, as always. Thank you, maria simple is the prospect. Find her you’ll find her website, the prospect finder dot com her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects. Now i want to thank our very much, of course, and also julia bonem been a pleasure having both of you as guests next week, scott koegler will be with me he’s, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news and the other guest. I don’t know yet because i’m recording on may first. But how can you find out who that guest is going to be? It’s so simple? Find out for our insider sign up for our insider email alerts on their facebook page. You can like the page and you can also subscribe to those weekly alerts. You know you can listen. Live our archive to catch us on the archive. Goto our itunes paige at non-profit radio dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our hashtag is non-profit radio on twitter. Use that thing. Use it often, i hope you’ll be with me next friday went to two p m eastern at talking alternative broadcasting. You always find the show live at talking alternative dot com kayman. E-giving didn’t think shooting. Good ending. In-kind you’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving duvette how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop second guessing yourself move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports, contact dale it aspire athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? 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Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shop a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Talking. Hyre

Nonprofit Radio, November 11, 2011: Work/Life Balance, Volunteer Visibility, & Westchester AFP

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Rachel Emma Silverman and one of her sons when he was a baby.

Rachel Emma Silverman: Work/Life Balance

Rachel Emma Silverman, reporter for The Wall Street Journal and contributor to their blog “The Juggle,” shares what she’s learned about managing your personal and professional lives when both scream out for your limited time.”

Please take a moment to take the survey for this week’s segment with Rachel! You’ll find it here at the end of the guest and segment descriptions. Thanks!

Maria Semple
Maria Semple: Volunteer Visibility

Our regular prospect research contributor, Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, talks about the new Volunteer section on LinkedIn profiles, which can help your research and increase your visibility.

Joe Ferraro: Westchester AFP

Joe Ferraro, from the Westchester county Association of Fundraising Professionals, explains their National Philanthropy Day conference on November 16. What’s the objective? And who are the speakers? Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio is a media sponsor.

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Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XM78P2L

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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Here is the link to the podcast: 067: Work-Life Balance & Volunteer Visibility
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Oh! Bonem welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio, where we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host today is eleven eleven eleven just a few things about that their arm or las vegas marriages by a factor of ten today than there are on the average friday in november. Lots of people want to marry on eleven eleven eleven. This is a big deal in the mayan calendar, which was too much for me to get into personally and research, but it is a big deal south korean c sections because the resident registration number for people born today in south korea will begin with eleven eleven eleven and parents want that for their kids. Um, i just like palindromes, so it catches my attention for that reason is symmetry is about as far as my creativity stretches, so i like it for that reason. And today is also veterans day. So a shout to those who are serving and to my fellow veterans happy veteran’s day. I hope you’re with me on eleven o for eleven last friday, when i had andrea kill stayed with me and we talked about assessing your asking style, andrea revealed what it means for me to be a kindred spirit and a mission controller, which are two of the four asking styles profile that asking matters dot com, which she co founded. How do you prepare for a solicitation based on your asking style? And how should different styles be paired together for an ask? We also talked about her book, how to raise one million dollars or more in ten bite-sized steps this week work family balance, rachel emma silverman, reporter for the wall street journal and a contributor to their blogged the juggle will share what she’s learned about managing your personal and professional life lives when both scream out for your limited time, then volunteers is ability. Our prospect research contributor maria semple, the prospect finder, will talk about the new volunteers section on linkedin profiles, which can help your prospect research and increase your non-profits visibility and finally, national philanthropy day at the westchester association of fund-raising professionals, joe ferraro from westchester ft, will talk about their conference on november sixteenth. Who the speakers are what their objective is. My show is a media sponsor that conference and i’ll be doing interviews there. All of that, along with tony’s take, to which my block post this week, is the basics of charity registration. That all comes after these messages, and immediately after those, i’ll be joined by rachel. Emma silverman. Work family balance. So stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl are said to want to nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio with me now is richa rachel, emma silverman she’s, a reporter for the wall street journal and a contributor to their blogged the juggle she’s, also the author of the wall street journal complete estate planning guide book, which is available on amazon. We’re talking about work, family balance rachel, welcome. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to have you. Why does the journal feel that a blogger on balance between work and family is necessary? Well, the blogging you’ve named the black has been around for a number of years, and so i actually didn’t start the block. I said it started by some other colleagues before i became a contributor, and the genesis of the bog was that a number of users, both women and men, we’re struggling with these issues in their own lives, and they figured that, you know, they weren’t alone and that many of our readers were dealing with same issues. You many of the most of our readership, though not by all means not all, um, our working parents, although we do have plenty. Readers without children onda also some readers who don’t work outside of the home and our state home parents, but but definitely the bulk of our viewership for working parents who are dealing with, you know, the struggle of how teo work meaning or have meaningful professionals careers, but also raised their families. And are we seeing much difference in thiss in the midst of our recession, in terms of thes thiss balance in the jungle, there is a difference, certainly. Well, first of all, families are just more worried that they’re more worried about their jobs or labbate heads their paychecks if they’re even looking enough to be employed. So you that underlies the struggle, and it adds to the stress that many working parents already feeling. But secondly, um, those who do have jobs are many cases working harder than they’ve ever worked before and that’s because many companies and non-profits are operating a lot more lean lean these days, and you know, they’ve had layoffs or haven’t sold positions, and that means many workers are actually doing the job. So you two or three people and that can increase the workload increased the time spent at work. Or, you know, pulling in time during home time. And so it really does that stress on dh there’s tension there. You feel grateful to have the job, but probably resent may at least frustration and maybe resentment about having to do a couple of jobs. Exactly. Exactly there, you know, certainly that case. People feel less blowing rock the boat and asked for more flexible arrangements are to scale back the work hours. Nobody wants their job and we’re going to talk about howto set some of those boundaries. One of the poll questions that i had for the audience before the show was, is your job comprised of what was two or more jobs before the recession and perfectly split between yes and no fifty percent each way. So yeah, i mean that that because it certainly doesn’t affect everybody here, but i’m not surprised that at least, you know, you feel like they’re doing a lot more and i think in the for-profit sector as well in the audiences. Non-profits but i think we’re seeing that across the across those the two sectors, i just want to remind listeners that we are live tweeting the show. Join the conversation on twitter using the hashtag non-profit radio if you have a question for rachel and we’re also taking calls at eight seven seven for eight xero for one, two, zero, eight, seven, seven for a tow for one two oh ifyou’d like teo, talk to rachel who’s i think your cellphone just rachel, you have to get that call. I hope. No, i’m getting okay. Oh, that was okay. The sort of the conventional wisdom about working for non-profits is that it will be a more regular balance will be more normal work hours. Ah, pay maybe lower, but there will be a better mix between personal and professional. Do you see that by commenters on the blogger and people you’ve interviewed so that’s a really good question? I know i actually know from both professionally from reporting and from the blood, but also even personally, i know a lot of people who have left corporate job, askew said, because they i thought that non-profit world would offer a more friendly, more family friendly environment a few hours for with trade off being being less pay. But the reality in some cases, though not all, can be difficult to be surprising and different. You know, all of all of you working non-profits you guys work hard and and the hours can be long or get their community, we’ll get night for events or for charitable mission work and so it’s, not always the ninety five that some people are expecting when they go when they go into the non-profit world and i think that has been exacerbated talked up. For by the poor economy, just because the the social services for those york until services, he needs air greater. But also, you know, just being short staffed. It means that all of us are working harder, or many of us are working harder. We have to take a break. When we return. Rachel will stay with me. We’re going to talk about howto, establish some of the boundaries, and set that balance for yourself, and also talk a little about rachel’s situation because she is a work at home. Mom, this is i know tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Thank you. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You get me thinking. Xero good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s, create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Dahna hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that come mondays at eleven a. M, call in for a free second reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed and the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas and an average budget, tune into the way above average. Tony martin. Any non-profit radio ideo. I’m jonah helper from next-gen charity. Welcome back, i’m with rachel and the silverman reporter for the wall street journal and contributed to their blogged the juggle we’re talking about work, family balance, one of the other questions that i asked listeners before the show was do you feel you have appropriate boundaries between your work and personal lives? Kind of disappointing on the only forty two percent said yes and all the remainder were no or not sure so i don’t even not sure is not so good. Rachel euro, your work at home. Mom, how did that come about for you? Sure. So i work for many years out of our new york bureau a za reporter. And then my husband actually got a job in austin, texas. And i asked my boss if i have to go after it plainly, you know, saying i love my job and i would it be okay if i moved a dawson with my husband for his job. Would i be ableto work from home? And my boss didn’t even bat an eye. He said yes, and i was so grateful. And this is seven, no, six, six years ago. And i’ve been here ever since and i have two young children who are almost two enormous for and so i work out of the home office with one of my sons is in preschool on the other eyes, still at home with the baby sitter while i work from home so that my situation, what were you thinking the days leading up to asking that big question? What were your feelings about what you might hear? You know, i felt pretty confident that i didn’t really second guess it. My husband had to make a decision quickly for this job offer, and we’re pretty sure that we wanted to move anyhow, and i just sort of told me that the worst thing that he could say would be no and if that happens, you know, i really enjoyed i really love my job, and i would be very upset. Um but you know, that that’s the worst thing that could happen, and then we have to make a decision. But, you know, i also felt that if he said no there’s always room for negotiation and there are ways to do things like a trial period, but it didn’t even come to that, you know, i think one of the big issues and what we can talk about this further is that people kind of get so scared about even asked e-giving they don’t want to appear to be, you know, lazy or they don’t want their bosses and they will be working as hard if they were so they don’t even ask, and i really that’s, you know, you keep only with only one hundred percent sure way tio not get what you want is to not ask for it. And so, you know, i think that it’s it’s really important your bosses that is most in most cases not going just offer work from home. Usually people have tto have to ask for it, so but also just knew that the worst thing would happen would be that, you know, and and i i was prepared for that consequence. So the advice is if you’re if there’s something on your mind about an alternative arrangement or hours or a couple of days a week at home, or maybe just one day we get home, get the courage, find the way and just asked, because i think, don’t you think that if if your work is getting done, and if it continues to get done, most supervisors are going to be amenable, yes, not all almost right, exactly most yes, i think especially now because our technologies just so much better and there’s so many more ways to be connected to be productive without being in an office, you know, that didn’t used to be the case, but when i asked, i mean, this is six, seven years of this before the iphone, you know, blackberries, we’re still kind of not as good as they’re now, and so the technology was kayman is good then, but but now, you know, it’s really, really easy to stay connected to the to the workplace on and in fact, a lot of companies are finding you know, that they’re alive and more distributed workplace. You’re a many employees happier, but also their big cost savings in terms of real estate in technology and energy. No, there. There are a lot of benefits working from home now, so you have two children at home seeing you work every day. Do you think about what the impact will be on them as they grow older? Yes, i actually think about that a lot i grew up with two working parents and my mother for much my child hood worked from home, and i actually you’ll have so many memories of falling falling asleep with sound of her typewriter hail kind of in the background kind of click clacking away, and she was a consultant, often how to write reports, you know, this is kind of the era, even before we’re processors, and you know that that that really impacted me, i sort of just assumed that i would work and, you know, it was just very much a part of my of my life growing up. No, i think that for my children, you know, i hope that i’m a real role model as a working mom, and until very recently, i was actually a part time from the time that my first time was born just a couple months ago, i was a part time, so i was with them, you know, as mom for part of the work day, you probably talked to a lot of people or get comments from out of people for whom they’re not, in the most part, and their bosses aren’t amenable. What? Advice do you have there? Yeah, i mean, that’s a really big issue. And i think that it’s something that will change eventually effective economy improves and people are more willing to vote with their feet and look for other opportunities and more family friendly places. You right now, employers, you know, sadly and a lot of companies do you have the upper hand? Because they know that that workers are just happy toa have a job and many inmates situations, but but i do think that the more people ask and the more people prove in place proved that they can do good work, that this will change. I also think when one judges to ask if you if you can, try it on a trial basis, you know, a week, a month on dh just sort of see how the arrangement were, uh, and then know that if it doesn’t work, think about what the alternative is your job worth keeping if you can’t get that flexibility. And if you decide that it’s, not there, maybe steps you can take short of leaving in the midst of a recession, but they’re always steps you can take to help. Get your way to the exit door and start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Absolutely. And you can also see if you could work on a contract basis to do just that. Certain projects in order to get that, get that flexibility or see if they’re things you can do well within four point. Like what? Your hours around a little bit, coming a little bit earlier, if you could leave a little bit earlier seeking handle school, pick up, you know, things like that that your boss might be more amenable. Short of working from home. Rachel, i’m a silverman is a reporter for the wall street journal and contributed to their blogged the juggle and we’re talking about the work family balance, i imagine there’s certainly gender issues this’s probably tougher for women than for men to raise at work. What do you here? Well, i think in many cases it’s tougher from men just because, you know, women are scientists, certainly changing, but women their cider you’ve seen more often as you know, the family, the family who razor and this is changing very quickly, but i know men who have tried toe work part time and have found it more, more difficult task for just because there seems to be some stigma. The men seeking alternative arrangements and a lot of companies are becoming, you know, are you are really hurting, you know their workforce toe be gender neutral and, you know, have family leave, be open to both men and women. But i think for many cases, harder for men asked for these rain for and for women. Okay, interesting, more more accepted. I was thinking about the fear among women that they might be mommy tracked and their career hindered. Yes. No, definitely. I think that that’s that’s a fear that holds back many women, but i think that employers are less surprise with a woman. You think that i do think that women certainly are are seen in some time? I think this with men is that fewer men asked for these arrangements. And so there’s less there’s less daddy tracking just because they’re fewer dads historically have asked for part time or for working from home arrangements. So when that when dad do ask, they often feel a little bit, you know, like still a little nervous. Because there aren’t that many other models for that in the work for and do you see more men asking around around a birth now for extra time off? Yes, absolutely actually meeting with friends later today, who is on paternity leave right now. Sixty paternity leave, and so definitely, i think, that, you know, it’s it’s becoming a lot more common. And companies are, you know, are really granting it a lot more often and writing into their hr policies. What about family mean, we don’t have family members so close, so much anymore. So family, the fact that kid’s air more mobile, and that that also impacts what? What were able to arrange for our personal lives? Absolutely, and that’s that’s, a big, big, big assed. You, you know, in the past. It was just much easier or not much exertion of that, but having a family being able to watch your children and you know, if your parents didn’t work here and uncle didn’t work just made finding child care a lot easier if you didn’t have teo really struggled with finding daycare, nannies, etcetera, but, you know, that’s, just not the case. So many family for so many families anymore. I mean, i just personally i live very far away from from my parents and my in laws, and, you know, they’re in opposite ends of the country, and so we just don’t have that family available to us for child care. So, you know, every it’s, always a struggle, but to find stable childcare, he were actually the myth of searching for child care right now for our children. You have your own transition coming up, right? Exactly. Tell us, won’t you share that on, by the way? Thank you. Thank you very much for being willing to share your own personal story. Oh, sure. No, i’m always i’m always happy to talk about it. My my life, you know? But yeah, so my younger son has been home. With the baby sitter and starting a day care in january. But our baby here actually has a new job, and so the next month and a half were without falik hair, who was running in a week and a half and so nowhere were scrambling toe find child care for for a few months, and we’re going to part time childcare after starting in january. And so, you know, it’s something when you don’t have a table, how car can make, uh, both your work and your life very stressful because, you know, it’s, always in the back of your mind, so less listeners think that oh, she’s, a contributor to the jungle she’s got it all figured out. Oh no, no, no that’s one of the things i did contribute to juggle because i’m trying to figure it out. Yeah, i’m always trying to figure it out and after our readers are so helpful in terms of offering their own suggestions and bits and pieces of their own lives. It’s, you know, it’s really, really strong and and warm communion of we were just talking about children moving away from their family, but i see the most recent post by you on the juggle is about the reoccupation of the empty nest kids moving back. So even so, this is not only for young families, but this could easily have implications for people in their fifties and sixties. Absolutely and that that’s interesting because you many, many people start reading the juggle because they’re they’re they’re new to the duggal bait they recently had shot, but we also have a lot of readers with older kids, college age kids, teens and, you know, they’re dealing with they’re dealing with troubles of their own, and especially with the part economy, you know, grown growing children are definitely returning back to the nest on and there’s more financial assistance going. Teo, in your post, you talk about that, so we’re not only juggling work and family, but we might be juggling money as well. Oh, yeah, i mean, money. Yeah, i underlies both the work in the family’s kruckel because you need both to make make it go smoothly. Since i’m sorry, rachel. So i just called you i’m sorry, rachel, since we are talking in good measure about young families. There’s an issue around guardianship that pertains to the book that you wrote the wall street journal complete state planning guide book when we just touched down just in the last minute and a half that we have this guardianship issue for for young families, so are you are. So one of the reasons i wrote the book is that i’m absolutely passionate about planning it, and i know it sounds funny to say passengers out of the inning, not a subject that brings i had a lot of passion, but i really do believe that every single person, especially young families, should have a will. Not only teo doesn’t property, but most importantly, to name a guardian for your young children. And choosing and guardian is so such a tough decision because nobody likes to think about their death, and it can involve awkward conversations with family members about you who you want to choose, a guardian who who you want, who you trust to take care of your children if you’re not able teo but it’s something that i encourage all of you listener’s with children, teo to think about and most appalling, tio dio you make sure that you have a will that that includes the guardianship designations and rachel’s book again is the wall street journal complete estate planning guide book, and you find that on amazon. The last survey question i asked listeners was, would you describe your office as family friendly? And two thirds said either yes or yes, very and only one third said no, andi ah, few people even big, no, unfortunately, that’s not good, but the fact that two thirds is really good and i have to say i’ve been so lucky, my employer, his has really, really been family, family, and i’m so grateful to my employer, but i’ve actually, you know, i’ve actually considered working for a company not recently, but a number of years ago that really, really wasn’t family friendly there flexibility was not at all a part of its charm policies, they didn’t allow people to work from home. They’re a maternity leave was very short and very inflexible. And, you know, i realized that wasn’t a workplace for you, rachel, we have to end there. Thank you very much. Thank you, rachel. I’m a silverman is a reporter for the wall street journal and a contributor to their blawg the juggle after this break. And be tony’s. Take to stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com buy-in durney welcome back to the show we ran out of time, but there was a question on twitter for rachel about whether telecommuting woodwork on ly in large companies and i promise you i will email that question to rachel and i know she’ll be happy to answer, and i will get the her answer to the person who asked the question on twitter. So thank you very much for asking the question. We’ll get it answered for you, tony’s take to my block this week is the basics of charity registration. What is charity registration? These air the requirements in every state and the district of columbia that you register with state authorities before you solicit donations in that state, you either register or you qualify for an exemption or you don’t solicit there or you can roll the dice and take your chances on being caught. There’s a lot more in on my block at that post this week’s post the basics of charity registration on my block is that m p g a d v dot com, and that is a short tony’s take two for friday, november eleventh, the eleventh day of the eleventh month of the eleventh year i’m with now maria simple, actually maria’s with me. Maria is the prospect finder and she’s an experienced trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now we’re talking about volunteers. Volunteers, visibility maria, welcome back. Hi, tony. Thanks for having me a pleasure to have you back. There is something new on unlinked in. Is that right? For volunteers? Yes. That’s correct. It’s actually been out in september, but i don’t think very many people know about it. And there was a recent new york times article which i think kind of has brought it to the forefront of people’s attention. And that is the topic of adding a section on your profile on lengthen that includes your volunteer experience and causes, and it can be extremely useful for aa number of purposes first and foremost for yourself as an individual and your own personal profile. We’re not talking about the profile of your organisation, but your own personal profile really can make you a very well rounded individual if you can show where you have volunteered. So presumably most of the people on this call today, actually work for a nonprofit organization, but you probably are also volunteering in other capacities as well. So why not list that? Why not list what your volunteer capacity is? Whether it’s a boardmember helping to run a gala, whatever the capacity is, you do have an opportunity now to add that to your linkedin profile, and there is enormous value in volunteering. I know some people use use volunteering to lead to a new job that’s correct and that’s actually one aspect that this article really brought to light in the new york times they were talking about people who are perhaps unemployed in in transition and are looking for a way tio augment their skills toe add back to community and it’s a way teo really boost your resume, if you will, even though you’re not getting paid for it still able tto have a tremendous amount of impact and flexibility with the project that you’re able to do, and you’re demonstrating an interest in the career you’re trying to move to bye bye. Doing it. Doing that work for for free room on a volunteer basis. Yeah, and what was interesting, too, is that they quote in this particular article that in a survey, they found that forty one percent of employers said that they considered volunteer work as important as paid work, and that twenty percent said they made a hiring decision based on volunteer work. So it’s, extremely important that you not only have it on your regular resumes, but also make sure it’s listed there on lengthen because i can guarantee you every single day. Headhunter recruiter hiring manager, hr person is taking a look at your linkedin profile that you want to make sure that you do with those opportunities very well. The article we’re talking about was in the new york times on november first called volunteering rises on the resume november first, new york times that’s eleven one actually another palindrome eleven one eleven. There you go. There you go. What was interesting to is that i was doing a late a little bit of digging around on lengthen itself. And i got back to the press release that lincoln launched on september seventh regarding this new volunteer called experience and causes feels for their profiles, and they say that they surveyed nearly two thousand professionals in the u s and they found that on lee, eighty nine, eighty nine percent of these professionals have personally had experienced volunteering, but on ly forty five percent included that experience on their resume. So there’s definitely a dichotomy there people are not necessarily all including it, yet employers are looking for it. You should be proud. You should be proud of it. Absolutely. And i think from from the non-profit standpoint, it elevates it’s, another avenue for the non-profit to get the word out about they’re just to get their name out there, right? So i would encourage every non-profit listening on this call to encourage your board members, especially your board members, to add this section to their own lincoln profiles and indicate that they are serving as a boardmember for your organization, because it’s going to again give greater visibility to your organisation and its great maria. Is this something that people who have an individual profile have to select for that volunteer section to appear? Or does it appear automatically in you’re in the template and then you just fill it in? So what? What they need to do is when you’re looking at your linkedin profile, you know how you have that first shaded box before you start getting to the summary section and all of that just underneath that shaded box that you have at the top, there is a link that you click on called ad sections, so you click on the ads, sections hyperlink then you select volunteer experience and causes, and then you click add two profile button, and then you fill out the applicability fields. Excellent. Thank you for that, that kind of detail and for the non-profits that you’re saying greater visibility, that’s because people will find the people who have your non-profit listed when they’re searching the non-profit name, right? So what’s gonna happen is right that you’re non-profit then is going to be linked to that person as well, so they’re able to then learn a little bit more about your organization simply from clicking through on that profile. And how about from a prospect research perspective now for people at the chair at a charity wanting to do research on the people who they know or would like to know? So from from a prospect researchers perspective it’s fantastic, so fine researching an individual certainly length in is one place that i go to to do my research it’s one of the tools in my toolbox, so if i can see not only their education, their work experience and so forth, if they have left, they’re where they are interested in volunteering, where they’re currently volunteering, and by the way, it’s just like a resume, i mean, you have, you know, from what year to the present date face from two thousand to present to your volunteering at x y z organization and there’s also an opportunity to list causes that you care about. So if you’re if you’re an animal welfare non-profit and you see on somebody’s linked in profile that the on ly causes they care about are perhaps education and children, then you know, you might have been a little bit more digging to do to see if there’s really going to be a connection for your organization. Another reason that individuals may want to add this, and this is goes into the non-profits encouraging individuals, teo, add this section, as you suggested boardmember sze is that if it can be used in broadening skills in showing that you’re a, you’re a person beyond just your work, but you have skills outside you work and you’re exercising those in volunteering exactly. Exactly. So, you know, i think a lot of people find that linked in is almost because it’s a business networking tool, it doesn’t really allow too much of your personal side to come through, and i think this is really an opportunity for people to allow that to come through yet in a very professional format. Yes, bring your personal side toe life in lincoln, and i know that that times article also pointed to people using volunteerism when they are when they’re not currently working, which a lot of people aren’t in the recession, but it shows that you are keeping busy and you’re keeping informed about your your marketplace, right? I think the article even goes on to say something along the lines of you’re not just sitting on the couch, right? Also all these reasons that individuals should be promoting their own volunteerism and that charities should be encouraging people who are close to the organization to do that, would you, would you include? Yeah, i mean, it doesn’t have to be a boardmember right that you’re inducing or encouraging. Teo list your organization no, not at all. I mean, i can see organizations like literacy volunteers, for example, think of the the bank of volunteers that it takes to run an organization like that. Why not make sure that those people all have your organization listed as a place where they volunteer their time? So, yes, it is extremely important to have that on there there are sites on the web to that will connect volunteers and non for not-for-profits i no one is go volunteer, which is spelled without the two e’s in the word. Volunteers just spell the word volunteer without those dot com catch a fire is another one. So there are sites that will connect non-profits with volunteers if individuals don’t currently have ah non-profit to volunteer for that’s. Correct. So there may be something right in your own backyard right in your own city where your expertise is really needed. And this gives you an opportunity to extend your expertise to the volunteers that desperately needed. And so there are definitely sites online that will match. And the non-profit request specific request for types of jobs. Shall we say that they’re looking to have by a volunteer? So, as i mentioned, catch a fire dot com is one go volunteer dot com spelled without the easing volunteer volunteermatch is another one. There’s also a rising micro volunteering and the and the times article brings this out idealware research too. You can’t just volunteer for a few minutes, apparently so i have not done something like that. But i did see that in the article as well, which i think is really very interesting is that there are some very sure, very short term beyond for terms with yeah, ten minutes is what one of them sparked is one site for micro volunteering. Maria, we have to leave it there. I want to thank you very much. You’re very welcome, tony. Thanks for having me always. My pleasure, maria simple is the prospect finder. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects. Now we have a couple of messages, and after those, i’ll be joined by joe ferraro from the westchester association of fund-raising professionals will be talking about there. Upcoming conference national philantech three days to stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s the talking. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m ken berger from charity navigator. Dahna welcome back. Joining me now is joe ferraro. He isa boardmember and educational programming chair of the westchester county chapter of the association of fund-raising professionals. We’re here, he’s joining me to talk about the chapter’s upcoming conference next week. National philanthropy day on wednesday, november sixteenth. Joe welcome. Thanks for being on the show. National philanthropy day. That’s, that’s. Pretty ambitious. You didn’t just pick westchester or new york state or even mid atlantic philanthropy day? No. Well, a national finds every day is, uh, national day. November fifteen is the actual day of the rial holiday, so to speak, that was established by the then national society of fund-raising executives. But now thie association of fund-raising professionals and it’d surely a national event chapters across the country to celebrate the day with various conferences and meetings, awards, ceremonies. And even in our region, we have new york city is running up is running a, uh an event. But our event in westchester is very much on educational and networking opportunity. And this is your first annual is that right? This is our first full day conference. The chapter is relatively new. We were established in april of two. Thousand ten and we’ve been running breakfast meetings, networking an educational programming since then, till now. But this is our first national or first full day conference and is a real robust program that is a fantastic educational value in the region. All right, so what, tio, what kinds of people are you expecting to come? It ranges anywhere from the boardmember or volunteer uh, on to the administrative assistant and development area, or somebody who is looking to transition into the non-profit area that is a big need that we are seeing that we’re fulfilling as a chapter, especially at our breakfast meetings. We have a lot of phone calls of people i’m looking to get into the non-profit field, i don’t know where they get started. Um, can you tell me about that? And they’re mentoring i actually had to phone calls yesterday, uh, that war of eh spinoff from a conversation with the conference, two more of a mentoring and i’m in a life transition and i’m looking to get into the non-profit field and change. I’ve been a success, i’ve downsized and now i wanna give back and figure out how i can work the non-profit arena and all those things fit into the type of people that come to our organization. We have a lot of people from charities what’s very unique about what we’ve done with our chatter is so many non-profit organizations or associations rely heavily on the for-profit sector cars, vendors and partners latto bulk up there, their membership with we’re very focused on the charity specific. I would imagine that of our attendees to this conference, about ninety five percent of them actually work for charities and not for, uh, paper or print sales organisation that we do have, we will have a robust sponsorship in exhibitor area, but, uh, the number of people are coming are definitely got their hands on fund-raising every single day, joe, when you get those calls about from people who want to make the transition into non-profits then you should refer them to today’s show because the last segment i know you heard part of it, you were on the phone waiting was about volunteering and using volunteering to move from a for-profit tio not for-profit job? Absolutely especially in that transition time. Then when i heard you were talking teo simple, who happens to be a speaker at our conference next week. Um, about not being on the couch on showing that you’re actually working when you’re not working. Nobody ever said that you had to work. That working for money is the only way that you could be working. So who are the keynote speakers that we can look forward to next wednesday? We have, ah, great program. Our keynote speakers. Uh, we have a morning keynote of john hicks from j geever talking about why ethics matters to me a lot of case stories, as you probably know, a f p is very much focused on the piece of the pie. When it come to you and joe who’s, the other keynote speaker was just have a couple of minutes left to our christian murano from con vo is talking about the next generation of american giving. It talks about how each different population, uh, based on birth date, kind of deals with media and how fund-raising approaches them on our there a couple of speakers and breakout sessions just one or two that you’d like to highlight. Sure, we have an interesting session. I’d rather stick pins in my eyes and raise money talking about how to overcome your boards here fund-raising by dennis miller. Excellent board fund-raising always topical have and anything from a lot of we have a lot of soldiers, a couple of social media items as well as integrated marketing and building a cultural plans to be about board events direct one on one conversations, there’s something for everyone. There are fifteen different breakout sessions in addition to the keynotes and there’s. Something for everyone. This’s on wednesday, november sixteenth that the edith macy conference centre in briar cliff manner in westchester county. Yeah, so how do people register? They can go to www dot a west chester dot or ge and go to our event programming tab and you can go right there. And if they need more information, they could feel free to call me as well. Can i give you that number? Yes. Go ahead. Jump at nine. For for one, nine, five, nine, four, five. We’re looking for a great day. Joe ferraro is a boardmember and educational programming chair of the westchester county chapter of the association of fund-raising professionals. My show is a media sponsor of the conference, so i will. Be there on the exhibit floor, doing interviews with speakers. Jo, thank you very much for joining you very much, it’s been a pleasure that wraps it up. I’d rather stick needles in my eye than end, but we have to or pins, but i’d rather work with needles. I prefer crush a work next week. It’s tech day first your plan jason hutchins of non-profit solutions network makes the technical simple for you to explain why small non-profits need a new plan on how to develop yours so you’re computing costs, stay within budget and then our technology contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, scott koegler he joins me every month is going to be with me to talk about google plus pages. Google plus pages are here should you have one? And how to keep up with what’s coming up week after week, sign up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page. Did you like today’s show? If you did, please click that like button and become a fan? I know they’re not technically called fans anymore, but they are to me you’re all my fans listen, live our archive! You’ve done the live if you want, listen, archive goto itunes at non-profit radio dot net non-profit radio dot net brings you to our itunes page, where you can subscribe and listen any time on the device of your choice on twitter, you can follow me. You can also use the show’s. Hashtag non-profit radio were always live tweeting used that hashtag non-profit radio talk about the show. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, the line producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting, his sam liebowitz. Our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. I am tony martignetti. The show is tony martignetti non-profit radio, and i hope you will be with me next friday, one to two p m eastern here at talking alternative dot com. Think think, think, think, think, think, think, think you’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz waiting to get into thinking. Good. Looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one i want to make. Your current relationship at the filling is possible. Then. Please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business it’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry. Sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. 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