Tag Archives: Henry Timms

Nonprofit Radio for June 8, 2018: New Power

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Credit & debit card processing by telos. Payment processing is now passive revenue for your org.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guest:

Henry Timms: New Power
Why do some leap ahead while others fall behind in our chaotic, connected age? Co-author Henry Timms, president & CEO of 92nd Street Y, has the answers from his new book, “New Power.”


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

View Full Transcript

Transcript for 393_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20180608.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-12T00:01:16.192Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2018…06…393_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20180608.mp3.627348743.json
Path to text: transcripts/2018/06/393_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20180608.txt

Hello and welcome to tourney martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I grow oppcoll easy on if i saw that you missed today’s show new power why do some leap ahead while others fall behind in our chaotic, connected age? Co author henry tim’s, president and ceo of ninety second street y, has the answers from his new book, new power i’m tony, take two sexism in your fund-raising responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers with your cps dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tell us i’m very glad to welcome back henry tim’s to the studio. He is co author with jeremy heimans of the new book new power, how power works in our hyper connected world and how to make it work for you he’s president and ceo of ninety second street. Why he’s, co founder of giving tuesday henry is a visiting fellow at stanford university’s. Center on philanthropy and civil society he’s at henry timms. And the book is that this is new power dot com welcome back to studio. Henry temps is very nice to be back. I’m very glad to have you it’s been a couple of years. We were last time talking about i don’t know. Maybe it was the third year of giving tuesday or something like that back in the infant days of giving choosed indeed, which is ah, a new power organization. Newpower model on, we’ll get we’ll get to that and lots of others. Um, but, you know, let’s, start at the basics. What? What is this new power? Why do we need this book? Well, i think actually giving tuesday is quite a good example of new power work. So what new power is is this power? Teo? Mobilize power in a world where we’re all connected? How do you think about mobilizing a crowd around the things you want to happen in the world? And so e-giving tuesday’s what we would call a new power campaign. So giving tuesday was designed to be owned by a lot of people that was designed to be connected it was designed to be kind of ownerless. It was designed to be made by many, which is a very different design than how you might think of the old power design of something like giving tuesday. So let’s, just imagine, as a thought experiment, you’re going to have a national day of giving in old power world. You would call it something like the ninety second street wise, giving tuesday right co-branded very heavily, you’d make sure that anyone who was involved but your logo as high as they could on their page and make him sign a long legal agreement saying the way they were going to give was this one specific way on this one specific day, and if we had done that with those kind of old power mindset, e-giving tuesday would have scales nowhere instead, what we did with giving tuesday with we took our brand off it we designed giving tuesday so it would become more interesting as other people grabbed it so e-giving tuesday has become giving blue day and at the university of michigan rescue mission everyone and e-giving shoes day dressed for success and it list goes on, so on giving weak in singapore and is now in a hundred countries on dh. The reason that has happened is because we designed it in a new power way that we designed it so other people could could make it and take it somewhere new. Andi so, in a way, if you think about what new power is, new powers kind of lives in the spirit of giving tuesday which it’s, it’s this way of thinking about the world where what you’re trying to do is not create a program that is all about you that you download onto the world in this stage, or trying to create a movement that is around the set of shared values that mobilizes other people around your mission. He has a really important idea other people around your mission if you think about take a big step back, think about the world right now, who’s winning right? Anyone who is winning right now really understands this new power, so i’ll give you a couple of examples. Here’s an inspiring one that never again. Kids, the park from high school kids now that was a distributed movement. It was technology focused. It was made by many it’s. Surged very quickly through the country and powerful ways you look at the metoo movement again metoo got stronger and stronger as more people added their voices, more people connected together. It wasn’t about one person. It was founded, of course, by the activist tirana book. But the new incarnation of metoo is about is about millions of women everywhere now telling their stories in a communal way. So we could be very inspired by new power movements like never again will like me too. But you can also look att the success of donald trump there’s a there’s a darker side. Well, i mean, i think that that you think of isis, that thing that’s your political commentary of the mind, but so yeah, i think there is a darker side, which is so if you look at if you look at the way in which donald trump, whatever your view on the president, maybe hey has worked out how to take this crowd and to surge this crowd into office with him and to support his agenda by having this huge mobilisation based around him, you think back over the election, his capacity to conjure up to mobilize that crowd was was what really got him to stand out if you remember, back when the throughout the election the favorable unfavorable ratings, the favorability hillary’s favorable was always hyre than trump’s, neither were very high, but he was always hyre than trump’s, but what trump got right with intensity, he built this intensity of scale around his movement, he he retweeted the most extreme supporters he promised toe pay the fees of people who punched protests, he create this kind of intensity in a movement around him which surged him into office. And so what new power is and whether it’s, trump who’s working out how to do this? Whether it’s the never again, kids, whether it’s a platform like facebook or cuba, what is constant in all of these models is people have worked out how to mobilize people around their mission in a powerful way and that’s what the book is about, the book says look, no matter whether you’re running a small non-profit or your running for political office, if you don’t know how to understand the power of the crowd, how howto start movements, how to spread ideas, how to raise money if you haven’t got this new suite of skills you’re going to get left behind the dark example that i was thinking of eyes was isis right? You you, you you you come back to them several times in the book also harnessing the new the new power wealth for good reason. There’s a story off eh? Scottish schoolgirl called axum mark mood in glasgow and she way learn about her researching the book. She it comes from a nice family she loves harry potter she’s described as somebody who can’t find her way into the centre of glasgow on the bus on dh but in the evenings she’s being radicalized online and no one knows about this, and one day she disappears on dh the phone. Three days later, the phone rings and she’s calling from the board of syria and she’s left home and she’s a maid she’s she’s made me hard and what’s interesting is her story that doesn’t end what then happens with with oxen markham unit? She actually becomes one of isis is most effective recruiters, and she builds this girl to girl network that’s that’s how it’s referred to using all of these new power tools. She uses all these social media to all she has is amazingly emotional on the emotive tumbler account. She uses telegram she works out how to kind of get this crowd of girls like her around the world. Mobilized around isis is mission on dh girls start following her to iraq and syria girls start making the same journey that she has made because she’s worked out how to get the power of the crowd heading in the direction that she wants to on. This, of course, is someone this is essentially a medieval theocracy who has worked out how to give agency to their followers so their followers khun, take that movement and make it their own. And if you want to contrast the new power of axum mark mood, think about how the state department tried to deal with this. So at the same time, she’s spreading her ideas in this very new power way around the world, the state department the first thing they do is they drop cartoons out of the back of a bomber latto land on their heads off civilian population, literally top down, actually talk down on dh. They had the that tactic. Was first used in the first world war was one hundred year old tactic they’re using. They then eventually got a twitter account, which was called think again, turn away exclamation mark on basically scolded people for wanting to join isis man right with it with a big logo of the state department and as it turned out, to tactics not likely to dissuade potential, jihadi is is scolding them on dh big state department. Lucas. So those kind of stakes of our time, right? Are you approaching the world with a new power mindset where you understand how to connect these krauz and toe spread agency throughout the movement and to connect people and to offer people belong in the agency? Or are you still in a mode where you think you’re just dropping down your leaflets on the world and the job of people there simply to absorb your content? And in the nonprofit sector in particular, we still see a lot of organizations who are still in the kind of old power mark mode, and they aren’t working out this set of new power skills? You take our first of ah, couple breaks pursuant, they have a new paper. A digital donation revolution. How do you keep up in our one click to buy amazon world? Can you move? Mohr? Can you use more revenue? Can you move people through purchase and donation quicker? The paper has five online fund-raising tactics proven to work and save you money you’ll find on the listener landing page. And that, of course, is tony dot m a slash pursuant radio. Let us now return to new power. The the book starts early on. There’s ah, very good example of another example. That’s. Very timely nufer old power clashing with new power, harvey weinstein and me too. You tell that it’s it’s the same contrast, but it’s so topical. Well, yeah, i was actually very last bit of the book that we wrote, but because it was so over the moment that the so you think, by the way, the harvey weinstein exercised power it’s, kind of the worst kind of old power. So it really wass, you know, he had this power like a currency, right? He had this huge store of power he could decide to spend down or no greenlight movies. He could start stop careers. He could start stop rumors he literally held hollywood in his hand for decades, and it was very much about him, ray lead it leader driven approach, which is often true in the old power world. There was a funny statistic that over the last thirty years, the two people thanked most often from the stage off the oscars were harvey weinstein and god so that’s one of the ultimate old power. And of course, what metoo does is plays a very large part in toppling him through its capacity to conjure up new power so metoo was made by many people. It wasn’t about one leader that it was very much leader, full as a movement. It changed it, mohr it was open, it was participatory. All of these different flavors were really about how you think about power ery different, and we contrast the power of harvey weinstein, which has powers a currency to the power of something like metoo, which is powers of currents. A new power is something that you don’t own it, it flows and and it moves, and if you going to shape it in the direction you’re trying to get in the world, you could have a huge impact, but it’s a very different way about thinking about how power flows in the world. You, uh you’ve ruined my life with this with this book. Well, that was that’s, the new blub for the paperback durney martignetti i’ve ruined your life. Well, it is. It is about me. Is it because i’ve been going through? We’re going through new york reading this book on i’m tagging things as your soul power. I don’t have the bus drivers subway. I’m thinking the subway conductors had your soul power. I mean, i could be on a lift right now and lift the new bird. They are an interesting contrast between the different models and values. So i’m i’m hypersensitive, teo old power. And then i had to bring it to myself. And i was thinking podcasting, podcasting i i’m very, very serious, but some very concerned podcasting is, uh i curate and produce and distribute. And then about twelve or thirteen thousand people. Listen, i mean, that’s. Is that classic old power? Yes. Yeah. So the question, what happened? I mean, i was an early adopter. I wasn’t a pioneer in podcasting, but i was an early adopter, what the hell happened in eight years? I got passed by. So his question, i suppose, which is what? What? What would you what would you and could you do with those thirteen thousand people other than asking them to listen? So the old power will typically off people to do one of two things you consume or you comply? Those were the behaviors most organizations look for. So media was a good example, right? You consume the media, podcasting, you consume the podcast, the government base, he said follow the laws do-it-yourself old but we didn’t re ask people to do much more than that. And so the interesting question i think with media in particular is what is the invitation for people to doom or than simply consume? How can they play a role in these kinds of opportunities and moments? And it’s telling that you look at things like voting on american idol? More people vote for american idol than there were in presidential rations, right? People want to consume you. Look a platform like reddit so red it is entirely curated. It’s, participatory engine all of the things that end up on the front page. Of reddit end up there because the crowd wants them on the front page of reddit, all of these platforms what the what we were classified newpower platforms are designed to ask people to do more than simply to consume. And so in an era where now half of people and i’m sure it’s true of people listening to this podcast right now is the interesting exercise. If you’re interested if the moment you listen to this, you have a phone in your hand and you are looking at your phone, please tweet about so whenever here’s what here’s an exercise with live excise right now, anyone who is listening right now, who is who has a phone in their handlers are looking at their phone whilst listening for this tweet about it. And if you’re listening to this on down, though, go on, you’re also looking at your phone to tweet about it because my suspicion is this is true of tv, half of the people watching tv now staring another phone. So the question is, why are they staring at another phone? Is itcause tv’s boring? You know, to some degree, but it’s also because they’re looking for a way to be involved in something new that they’re not content with, just sitting there watching the tv, they want to do something else. So the organizations and individuals who are winning right now working out what that invitation to participate looks like, and i’ll give you another example, which i think is an interesting one looked something like snapchat, right? Before you give you example ifyou’re gonna tweet us hashtag non-profit radio on hashtag new power good, very hush tag non-profit radio hashtag new power i’d be interested to know whether that where the people are listening to this and looking at something else, i think they probably are. So the question then becomes like snapchat is a great example, which is why this snapchat world it works because you are asking people to do more than consumed. What is facebook work? You’re not just consuming content, you’re sharing it, you’re liking it, you’re creating your own content? Why does someone like the ice bucket challenge work? It works because you’re asking me to do more than simply donate that list goes on here, but whatever you’re trying to get done in the world right now, if the only invitation you have is consumed. You are likely going tohave an old power model which may not hold up over time. Yeah, that’s! Why? I’m scared. Well, i don’t think you’d be scared, i tweeted, tweeted about two hours ago. We hope i’m very nervous about this. Well, so his days don’t listen, i said, please don’t listen well isn’t actually in the downfall of the show let’s, try an experiment let’s, try second experiment now. So we have a it’s turning into a therapy session weighed only therapy in my country so if you think about everything you’re way no. But i like your question. No, i want to try an experiment. Like trying trying to be new power e he’s my experiment centralized. Well so his experiment, your listeners a largely non-profit people, right. Okay, so we have a frame in the book for how you think about spreading ideas. Let me tell you about that frame and then let’s challenge your listen others to think about that frame and work our way. They could apply it to their own worlds. So the frame is around how you spread ideas. So what we say in the book? Is if you want to spread ideas in the new power world very different than the old power lt’s. So in the old power world, what we would do, we try and create the perfect sound by or the kind of perfect logo and get everyone to replicate it or admire it. In the new power world, the ideas that end up working are ones that are actually designed to spread sideways. They’re designed to pass from person to person to person to person and their three key principles. If you want your ideas to spread in a new power world unless use the ice bucket challenge a zen example here, i think it’s a good one. The first principle is actionable you’re asking people to do something so the ice bucket challenge they were asking people to pour water over their head toe donate to share to nominate there’s a bunch of things you were asking people to do so. Number one is actionable number two is connected three ice bucket challenge work because it tied people together peer-to-peer so that it really began when a group of golfers connected with the group of a less sufferers and that kind of began the ice bucket challenge, but the reason it worked in general is because it was past between peoples peer groups, so people nominated other people to do the ice bucket challenge. It moved what we call move sideways. So the second principle of your idea spreading is connected. The third principle is extensible you create ideas that could turn into something else. So when the ice bucket challenge, when the actor patrick stewart did the ice bucket challenge instead of pouring water over his head, he got a point off a large whisky drop some ice cubes in, wrote a check and then said cheers to the camera the idea could turn into something else. It wasn’t a franchise, it was an extensive like so those three principal spell ace a c actionable connected extensible e-giving tuesday, another good example, right, it’s, actionable it’s giving tuesday. You give it’s connected. It ties you to all these other people. Are all these other causes? Its extensive or giving tuesday turns into all sorts of different things that move around of the world. Metoo is another example. So metoo actionable metoo literally it, zach actual connected. It ties you. To all of these other women, it ties you to this shared cause. Extensible when metoo gets to france, it turns into denounce your pig so even the framing itself changes so here’s the challenge fuel thirteen thousand listeners think about those three principles actionable, connected, extensible think about the things you’re trying to get done in the world and can you imagine an experiment with your work with your ideas, with your cause that you could design in an ace way? Have a go at that, see how it goes on, then tweet back what you learn to hashtag non-profit radio on let’s see what we learn and hashtag newpower know i’m gonna be very new power about it. I don’t only my brandon there you feel free ee. I just wanted you to read it. I i constantly follow new power non-profit radio tweets. Okay, okay. Okay. I mean, i don’t want to be. I have a way to find them. Okay? I think i think i’d like to hear from anybody. If that’s see that’s chapter three of the book i think about that framework. See if it works for you. See what you could design even? In a small way, with those principles and see where it takes you. Okay, um, turning into a therapy session. But so if i was going to apply this to tow a podcast, it’s got it’s more than just, you know, submit your questions, you know, that’s that’s me choosing the guests. And then you submitted questions. You know, it’s gotta be. But but how did you? But then how do you get it to everybody? I mean, it has to be distributed well, isn’t i mean that’s their i think they’re a couple of answers to that. What one is, i think the exercise we just did is a step in the right direction, which is you’re you’re working out ways, and this is a kind of keanu power principle. You’re working out ways to invite people to do more than simply listen, right? So what? I just did what i said here’s set of ideas, what do you think? Can you create some interesting content around those, uh, maybe maybe not will see is an experiment. Maybe some of this is that frame will resonate with them, they’ll take it and put it to their own ideas, and they’ll share something back with you. Now, if they do share some back with you, how would you then think about taking that content in learning from that content sharing with other listeners, building a community around those ideas? You? Then you start to get this kind of back and forth between us host in the community at large, on building that relationship, i think, seems to me the interesting future ofthe media in general, which is people are gonna want to have their voices heard we’re so used to face, but why do we love facebook so much? We love it because it allows us to feel like our voices hurt, right? We get to comment on things we get to like things is very for a human it’s very is very provocative for people to feel like they have agency. So so i think people need to design that. The interesting thing irony of podcasting actually is what ended up happening is podcasting itself is a very new power tool, so anyone could start a podcast where i could your broadcast on my phone as i leave today so it’s actually democratized the capacity to create media what’s interesting is most people then approached in a very old power way. So what’s happened is lots of people have just behave like they’re the bbc. I’m going to have my authority voice and my authority voice will be broadcast down to the world. What hasn’t happened is a lot of people have grabbed it and actually then used the opportunity to engaged actually engaged in very new power ways, but i’ll give you an example of an organization i really like the look off who does this well, which is the organization called the correspondent altum correspondent in the netherlands to their media company. There they were, stars up, they were crowdfunded into existence. There are newspaper, which is supported by their members so it’s all funded by the readers themselves, and they even now give their readers profile full profile pictures and expertise domains. So if they’re writing an article about national security, they have four hundred readers who have had careers in national security who have identified their national security experts. They then crowdsourced the articles they’re writing with this group for insights and comments and opinions before those are schools and then posted so they’ve thought about the whole process of journalism and how every point you can invite more people to play a meaningful role in how that works he shaped and shared on bill on. So i think the future of this work looks a bit more like that where media becomes there is definitely a role for the for the expert, for the for the journalist but that journalist is building a high quality, participatory set of behaviors arounds they’re ours, i think that’s the key lesson let’s make something explicit. The models versus the values there’s a chart table trying the book with four quadrants, um, and castles and coop tres and crowds. And remember the fourth one but and let’s let’s? Uh, yeah, i want i want to flush out some of the more details before we goto models of leadership. No ideas of leadership, actionable things that non-profits khun you think about beyond the ace. I mean, i love the east challenge, so these models and values so we make a distinction between the whether you have a new power model on whether you have new power vase and they’re very different things. So a new power model is basically you have this capacity to deliver mass participation, and pierre collaborations of facebook is the best example. Facebook is amazing. New power model. The model allows lots people to collaborate, connects, create, share all those good things and the you think about the i r s i r s does not have that more of the irs simply says, pay your taxes. And here it is and that they’re not engaging with you in a participatory away in a meaningful way, they’re just simply telling you to do as you’re told now, new power values there are those organizations who have new power values, who care about things that the wisdom of the crowd and transparency and kind of make a culture all of those good things, what we think of this new power values and an old power values muchmore around kind of professionalism, of managing a realism and expertise and all of those kinds of things. So there’s a really balance now between whether you have a new power model or it’ll power model on whether you have all power values or new power values and you start thinking about your own organization. It’s an interesting thing to think about. So we think about these kind of four archetypes it’s in the world that the first of the castles and the castles are organizations who have no power models and old power values to the i r s is a perfect example of that. I put the united way when we wrote the h p r p s i put the united way in that quadrant two, they have no power values in an old power model. Interestingly, a lot of local chapters of the united way are actually moving away from that model now toe quite effective degrees. But i think in the philanthropy world, you can think about kind of the old school united way more where everyone has to do is they’re told pay for their, you know, put their money into their local parts of their boss looks good, right? Veil padma, you then think about the cheerleaders and cheerleaders of those organizations who have all power models still, but actually are exhibiting new power values. So think about the clothing from patagonia. They sell clothes, right? They’re asking you to consume that’s what they do, but actually they’re building a very participatory brand. They’ve got whole activism platform now around their brand, they’re trying to build, they’ve been very transparent about their supply chain, even some aspects of it are quite troubling, so we see a lot of organizations in this kind of cheerleading space where they haven’t really changed their core model, but their values are starting to shift and and then we have what we think is kind of the crowds and the crowds have new power models and a new power values. So think about thie extreme thing about black lives matter, extraordinary new power model distributed extraordinary new power values. They’re so intentional about being a leader full, they used that phrase all the time i lead a full organization about how they make lots of people more powerful on that quadrant is really about new power meeting, new power. And then most interesting of all is perhaps the the quadrant we think about is the coop eaters and these people who have worked out new power models but actually have very old power values so we’ll use facebook again is an example. Facebook has this amazing new power model, but their values of very old power it’s very secretive for the governance is really hidden in the small number of people, the algorithms, we have no idea what they’re doing or how they’re working and they shape our lives and shape are elections the value of facebook? We contribute our data they day after day and other people extract the profits, so they’ve co opted new power wolber also were also to be a lot of people in the copter and interestingly, there’s been a real one of the interesting. One of the interesting phenomena in recent months has been this kind of rising political consciousness against the platforms that, you know, for years there was this kind of huge utopian enthusiasm for we’re going to connect the world, and if the world will connect, everything will be terrific and people know that’s not true. Now we know that actually connectivity alone, it isn’t going to deliver some instant utopia. What was actually going to happen is all of this participation that we’re all doing actually makes a few people very powerful and leaves a lot of people actually less powerful. So the big philanthropic question of our times, while certainly one of them not the big question one of them is going to be, how do we think about platforms? How do we think about their role in a philanthropic world? How do we think about they’re the intermediaries? We all now hovers as non-profits like a facebook who often will be the distance between us and our audiences there, austin, be smaller and then there’s some amazing things. Happen? Facebook has done some terrific stuff recently around waving fees around giving and our connectivity and it’s actually a lot of science of i think i see some very hopeful science coming on facebook in terms of how they’re thinking about their philanthropic role, but arguably they’ve very quickly become one of the most powerful philanthropic actors in the world. And so how they think about that set of questions is going to be very interesting. Big implications, right? Yeah, huge! We have about a minute and a half or so before break a couple of weeks ago, i had sheila warren on from the world economic forum talking about blockchain technology, what’s the potential around blockchain and this this distributed unsent realized values that we’re talking about well blocked pain is a great new power model. So it’s it’s a distributed leisure, right? So the nature of it is not too centralized to not be leader, driven to not to be talked down, but actually to rely upon the wisdom of the crowd to develop trust in transactions. So i think, on paper hugely promising here’s my note abortion, the hype around the block chain reminds me of the hype around the web of the beginning, right? It will be amazing, it will all be decentralized will be distributing power. It will bring down all these governments. Everything will be the same again. And actually, of course, what ends up happening. And tim berners lee predicted this early on. Actually, what ends up happening is on this utopia, we build these platforms on top of it, which actually intermediate along the platform. So for all the hope and hype around blockchain, and i think both are legitimate, i think we should also strike a note of caution that we’ve heard this record before and on paper, of course, you know, i always think, you know, blockchain is kind of incorruptible in the same way the titanic was unsinkable, right? I think they’re probably cerini there are probably some dangers ahead, but but net, now i think i’m very hopeful. Take a break, tell us more, neall, i have a new one for you. You know you’ve heard this telephone eel before, but it’s importantly elementary school receiving a monthly donation from tello’s for the credit card processing of a company that one of our parents owns, likely the easiest donation. Source. We have ever secured. End quote. That’s. The monthly pass of revenue that you will get when you refer businesses to tell us for their credit card processing. Is this donation source? Ever go, teo video at tony dahna em a slash tony tello’s now. Time for twenty steak, too. Is there sexism in your fund-raising i was thinking about this because i was looking back an old block post two thousand eleven when i used to write them instead of doing video posts, and i asked the question naively eyes they’re sexism in non-profits and it was the most commented remains the most comment there’s, only thirty comments or thirty four, forty comments or something s o the answer clearly is it was in two thousand eleven and probably remains. Yes, i was thinking about narrowing that two fund-raising and what got what should’ve raised my consciousness was sametz events where, you know, there’s there’s, a husband and a wife couple and someone from the organization is talking to the guy and the woman is marginalized she’s there she’s president, but she’s not being talked to latto not intentional, but you need to be careful on also in some of your direct mail. You know the way you you address male versus female just shouldn’t be. The sentence shouldn’t be mr, and then for women using the first name, be conscious on there’s, a little more consciousness raising at my on my video, which is at tony martignetti dot. Com back-up many times is with us, and we’re talking about his new book, new power you need you just get the damn book because, you know, we can’t cover in an hour. It’s just that simple. The book is at this is new powered dot com. Henry is at henry tim’s t i m m s book publishing that’s very old power, eh? How come you didn’t self help publisher do something less traditional? But i think it’s very, very fair question there. So in a way, the irony of the the work we’ve done on new powers it began in harvard business review and they published by penguin random house. So i think it’s fair to say we we know the irony in this i’m going here’s, my here’s, my defense, which which is to say this that actually our book never says all power bad newpower good. In fact, if you think about the arc of how we spread some of these ideas the kind of expertise at harvard business review these ideas would never got have got into the mainstream in the way that they did without the old power of hbo. They they have a very high bar for publication. They have an extraordinarily powerful brand that really is top down, right? They create this magazine they put into the world, they decide what should be in it. And that’s a lots of people try and get in it, and some of them get often get frustrated by not be able to do that. And so what launched the idea of the book was there was we have very strategically we thought, okay, we want these ideas out there in the world. We want something like hbr to give them that kind of a credibility and kind of put them in the in the minds of the right influences. But what then have once the ideas were out there in the world, the reason we wrote the book was there new power kicked in. So what happened with the book with the hbr piece was it was out there in the world. We have such an amazing response from people around the world who read the hbr piece and then started to make it more interesting. So i’ll give you an example. In the uk, they’re a group of health workers, nurses, midwives, health professionals. Who read the hbr peace and found it was very relevant to the health world. So there’s almost no world more old power than health, right? So you have these doctors and hospitals tell you from what they should do, and lots people not feeling much agency and they create a whole curriculum around new power building on the ideas making them or interesting, making more relevant to the health sector which they then use to actually do bunch of training all around the world now training front line health workers in terms of how they think about their own power, where it goes in the world. So it’s all things like that. And then we saw things like there was a spy agency here in the u s who reframe their strategy around new power and how they need to think about even a spy agency has all powers. It gets how they’ve recognized they have to enter the new power world so that the book began because we saw this new power reaction to the old power of the hbr, peace and all these all these kind enthusiasm spreading up around the world around the book on we engage that community to as we wrote the book itself, so we brought that community back into the processes we put the book together and again, i think when we wanted to publish the book, we definitely wanted to do it in a way we wanted to publish it through someone who would send a lot of signals to the right people that would have the right amount of all power around the book, but also has the right amount of new power around the book too. So what’s been very interesting with the book is now it’s out in the world were back in the same place we were in after the hbr pieces. Our time is now muchmore fostering the new power community around the book, hearing all those people who are working on around the world and most importantly of all, seeing people build on the thinking. So the high points of us so far with the book out there in the world is when people have grabbed it and made it more interesting. They’ve taken ideas and said, well, here’s, how we could take this into our world. They’ve written about new power, they’ve made videos. About new power. There was one one guy who i took some of the charts we had done in the book and made much better versions. So it becomes the work itself, becomes attractive. People grab it and take it somewhere new and that’s where new power kicks in and in publishing more generally just for what it’s worth look att the growth of fan fiction just as one example of how much is being published now. And if you think about writing in general he’s not a mystic, no toe toe hit for new power. We’ve never had more writers in the world. The media right now, there are more people writing and sharing their words. When i was growing up, if you wanted to be a writer, think about, you know, i just turned forty when i was growing up. You want to be a writer. You maybe get something in the local newspaper that that was possible. But it was quite a high bar, right? You could get something photocopied by someone at school and given to everyone you know. Actually, those were your means of communication. That is as much as you could genuinely be a writer unless you got some kind of freak publishing deal and you were one of a handful, but most people had no roof participation think now about everyone in their lives in the audience is they have the connections, the opportunities they have, we have this becomes really interesting story of our time is we’ve never had more available human capital that we do right now, people wanting to create things, build things, learn things, mobilize around things, organize events so the question then becomes, who is going to organize them where where they’re gonna end up going? And if those on the side of the angels don’t get good of new power, then all that human agency is actually going to end up in the hands of worse actors and i think that’s a really important idea behind the book. This isn’t a kind of hey, you should be authentic toe when it business kind of a book. This is a book which saying, look, this is a stakes of our time, those those people are on, i would think of your listeners in this group, those people who are kind of fighting the good fight, who are on the side of the angels, if they’re still approaching the world in a kind of press release, you know, my way or the highway approach, they’re not going to be able to mobilize a generation of people who want to add their own stamp on so that becomes the great challenge of our age. All right, so let’s, talk about some of the implications for non-profits started leadership there’s a whole chapter devoted to you know, uh, what what the implications are for for leaders on i wanna focus on leaders of non-profits no, that creating the crowds, no, just thinking, i mean, you gave the ace challenge. You know what? What we what we what we asking our leaders to do? Well, that’s a really good question i’ll give you a a somewhat provocative answer, which is i i think we we are always in danger non-profits leaders non-profits that you let the show become about you, the non-profit actually become so defined by a kind of charismatic chief executive who takes up all the space and testable the agents like a book author, you know, like like, like someone who recently written a book, not like i’m non-profit ceo resulted in organ has a hashtag like that? No, no like those big okay, no, i i think one of the things we worked really hard on actually is the idea that you actually build you build power inside institutions. So one thing we do a lot of nice secretary wise, one of the measures we have each year is around adoption of good ideas which is around. Do people in amongst our team feel their ideas are adoptable? Do they have a chance? If they have a good idea is going to be adopted? Or is it not? We’ve seen significant double digit growth year after year in that and that’s a big measure, i think about our leadership, which is i remember what it was like being an organization when i had ideas normal listen right, i remember thinking i had lots of good ideas and they weren’t getting on the agenda and the chief executive wasn’t paying attention and certainly i think about my own leadership. The measure i have internally is how do we make sure that we can as much as possible mean anyone, any level, if those let their ideas can be adopted? And brought through on a lot of that is about using the chief executive role where you have got more, you know, people, you’re more available, your mohr in the limelight, how much you can use that to actually encourage the agency and support of others has been a really important idea. I think for that and i think the for what it’s worth the i’ve been very intentional around the book has been a the book has been a bit of a period for me off mohr i’ve been more in the limelight with the book because my book and we want to get the ideas out there in the world. But actually previously to that, as i thought about my leadership with ceo there’s actually been a bit of a disconnect between running the running, the mayor’s secretary why were actually me being more well known is not useful? Actually, i think to the book where it has been a bit more useful. This has been an intentional period, but it had i not written the book i think i wouldn’t have and the public light in quite the way that i did and i also suspect this. Is just a short term thing. The book that doesn’t owe the dynamics of the book are actually very different than running the institution, and i think over on the institution why i think we know this because we measure this on annual basis and quite granular way, you know, i think we do have a real sense that we’re trying to make a lot more people feel like they can have ideas and that’s also true of the movements we’ve built. So someone like giving tuesday like nobody knows ninety second street y south giving tuesday, i mean, in the nonprofit world, like a bunch of pompel now, because it is that’s inside baseball, but you ask anyone who knows about giving tuesday haven’t got a clue what our role is, what my role wass we made that decision very intentionally, like e-giving shoes, he was in a way that someone could get snow bonem that wasn’t our goal and that’s often how these things start up, right? They have self one dynamic individual who build something and they get close to famous people. We just haven’t done that right giving tuesday has been designed in a way that actually isn’t about us on the leadership of giving tuesday. Certainly true of me. I could never do a day’s more work on giving tuesday in my life, and we’ll keep going and that’s the design principle. Right? So this is very much about building movements and ideas that are bigger than ourselves. Did you have new power in mind as you were when you cofounded e-giving tuesday? Yeah, that seven years, seven years ago. So the two things have fed each other. Actually, what’s been really interesting is the world we done the nice industry. Why? Building movements like like giving tuesday, like our ben franklin circles, like our women empower initiative, all of which have the same design principles. Hmm. They all have kind of fed the thinking. The workers spread the thinking and the thinking is fed the work. So there’s been a real back and forth in that dynamic over the last seven years. And it’s been terrific, like that’s the you know, i’m not a thought leader that’s. Not like i you know, we’ve got sixty five million dollars budget. We’ve got eighteen hundred employees, right? You know, i run a complicated institution i love. Doing that. But what was becoming clear is i was doing that work was there was a new way of thinking about the world, all of the thinking that ended up in the book from my side, all this already with jeremy heimans my collaborator. But from my side, that thinking was very much influenced by the things we had done it in the ninety second street. Why especially, we have this belfer center for innovation, which what was founded by a boardmember it is run by asha corrine, who has collaborated with me on a lot of these kinds of ideas. And that work has really been formative in terms of shaping some of thinking around the book. You’re gonna be on the show, i think twice leading up to giving, too is that right? We’re trying to get mohr non-profits to participate in giving today. So i know she’s coming at least twice the two or three times, you know, maybe assigning homework between the session with a listen. See how my hand what works out first? Yes. The race that well. That’s. Yes. That’s the summer project. So in terms of leadership, i mean, so is it? Mohr channeling and guidance a cz you think rather than leading, i think there’s definitely a sense of so i think a lot about this, sonny, my role there there’s no power leadership skills and new power leadership skills. Yeah, right. So you think about, you know, we have a bunch of people who are on the payroll on essentially most of that you can lead a small power skills, you know, there are you’re in charge, you can largely ask people what to do, and they’re going to do the things you ask him to do and that’s how institutions work right there often have very powerful people top running movement is very deep different because you haven’t got the same kind of power, but you haven’t got power over a movement in the same way you do over an institution so e-giving tuesday, we don’t none of those people on our payroll when we don’t there, they’re participating, giving tuesday because they think it’s a good idea or they’re benefiting from it, or they won’t do something useful and it’s actually a very different set of leadership skills. They’re becoming closer together now, but for a long time. I remember thinking a lot about how different it is to run an institution and to lead the movement, how different those sets of skills are actually one of the things that i read, it ran up against that yeah, right, well, lots of people do it’s really, this is not easy, like i think it was going to say what this is like it’s not easy and it’s, not binary. So this work doing this work, we’ve got lots of stuff which hasn’t worked super well and, like that’s inevitable. And now you have to keep trying things that’s how it works and it’s never case of all new power or a wold power. But actually, how you combine has blended things. Is there a chapter on blended power? There is chapter nine on their power, so i think that’s, right? And i think that is the right prescription for organizations which i’m not saying to any of the non-profits out there and it’s not true of us give up on your old power, you know there are moments where export curation makes a huge difference we have is amazing poetry siri’s at the ninety second street y and the people who run that just he’s incredible first class minds who really know the work and know the field on blow the cannon and they know what program and it delights audiences were never going to stop doing that, but alongside that, we’re also going to create projects like we did this cool product called the words we live in, where we invite people all around the world for one week to share the words that they encountered on their daily journeys. So the words you run into day after day after day, what they are and how they matter now that’s an old power and a new power way of thinking about poetry, right? Expo curator is giving you the very best. That was one colleague. Another colleague created this amazing program, this amazing movement where encourage people everywhere to share their stories around what words meant to them artistically, they’re both valid. They’re just very different muscles. They’re very different skillsets on i think the right prescription for organizations is are you an organization who could do both of those things? Well, i think we had a nice sex. Every wire trying to become the organization gonna take our final break. Wittner cps before they go beyond the numbers, they cover the essentials for you that’s nine ninety and audit. Check him out. Regular cps dotcom get to know them in one dimension. Then i like to go three d pick up the phone and talk. Talk to someone who you talk to, partner. You coached him? He’s. Been on the show. You know him? He’s? A good guy. No pressure. Course you can use the contact page at wagner cps dot com if you prefer. I like three dimensional and i’d like to talk. Waiter, cpas dot com we got do the live love, etcetera live listener love it’s going out it’s going out new york, new york. We got multiple new york, new york. We got parsippany, new jersey, bethesda, maryland listening. Tampa, florida live lister love to each of you let’s! Go abroad! Shanghai, china. Anyhow, i’m glad shanghai’s back, having been here for a while we have the u k wei have korea on your haserot comes a ham nida we have thailand, morocco we have ah bilich zonta, brazil live listener loved to brazil but that’s the first time, i believe and the podcast pleasantries thie over twelve thousand pushing thirteen thousand listening on. You’re on your own device at your own time. Very new power way of listening you do it on your own. We’re working on the old power side. I’m that was not lost on me, but you can consume it anytime you want on whatever device you like after i put it out. So podcast pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections those analog radios am fm the station’s air out there those radios going nowhere analog is not going to die. Don’t fear the new power world. I know that there will always be am and fm listeners. You know it’s not new powerful powers, not technology based it’s. Not like it’s it’s, different it’s models and values. It’s not it’s, not based on a technology. Those analog listeners am and fm throughout the country. Affections to our affiliate station listeners. Thank you for indulging that henry terms. No, i was fascinated. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Because the love has got to go out, you know? So i like that. Whatever format the gratitude, gratitude is always going. New powers come out. In brazil in august. So the brazilian version has come out of this. So i’m very pleased to hear brazil being well recognized. Yeah, there, yes, look for it. Look for it in august. Okay, um, that was bilich latto bilich tarzan today, i believe are you gonna be doing some appearances in brazil? Yeah, we’re going to do we’re actually going to do the book. The book is being published, and i were going to do the e-giving tuesday’s done very well in brazil, so we’re doing their e-giving shoes they launch at the same time. Get the book. This is newpower dot com just get the book. Buy-in well, so where would you like to go for your listeners in small and midsize? Non-profits a lot of ceo executive director is a lot of fundraisers. What? Well, i tell you some things on my mind on, but maybe maybe this is helpful. Maybe this is not things i’m thinking, i’ll be helpful trying, but i don’t like to protect me. I don’t want to presume ie thie i’ve been thinking a lot about intensity, i think a lot about the the importance of driving into intensities organization, so one of things were very good at in the nonprofit world is, you know, powerful causes, something that something we’re not as good at all the time is is driving intensity in the people who are surrounding us. So people think very well of us, but actually they are prepared to go to the mat for us. And one thing i think if you think about the organizations and leaders who doing really well right now, they’re actually doing really well with intensity. They’re working out how to build that around their brands. So as a kind of if i were in a room of lots of ceos and i was, you know, we were going around the room. We’re asked to kind of think about what’s on our minds. I think one thing on my mind is how we both in our local and global community biltmore intensity thing, that’s an important idea on something which i’m thinking about a lot. I think i’m thinking a lot about. Virtual reality augmented reality you know what that’s gonna mean for for non-profits the opportunities we have in that we just did a capital campaign, we’ve just gone public with our capital campaign. I mean, we did it. We did all of that in virtual reality. So rather than giving people like a brochure, which said, you know, hey, is this is this is that we gave them a v r headset where they could actually see the nice secretary, why transform in front of their eyes from what it is to what it could be, and we’re very new power idea e-giving people more of an experience, you’re asking, those kind of engaged really participate, maurin that and that was really very, very successful with it. It was amazing as a fundraising tool because people really felt that they were apart, something they could really kind of transform the vision, i think i think i think i think a lot about a are in v r and what that is going to mean for our world, and then i think, thirdly, i’m thinking a lot about things that are the threatened thank you a lot about the the things that we might take him for granted for a long time that now feel under threat and how we can defend those. So you think about some of the work of the night, secretary, why we’ve been believing in things like, you know, importance of public understanding of science and civic activation and thoughtful dialogue about big questions, the wise been doing this for a century, but actually, all of those things now feel less like luxury goods and more like necessities, right? They feel less like they’re all these nice things to have a more like, well, there there is a genuine threat around the world to a set of enlightenment values that we’ve all fostered fostered for a very long time. So i think the third thing i’m thinking about a lot right now is kind of what is the role of the non profit sector in reaffirming both kind of communitarian and enlightenment values in thoughtful and collective ways? That’s that’s on my mind, that’s also year end let’s, not let’s, not pretend i want again, i’m thinking what one thing i would say to my police in the field has been all of my time thinking about macro thoughts like a r v r i do also realize the clock is ticking two year on june thirtieth, so we’re going to do some work on that, too. The naysayers, if we’re going toe, start to institute values and think about a new values there’s going to be pushed back, the book chronicles the the designer at ninety secretary why? Who was appalled that your logo wasn’t part of the giving tuesday resource is what do we how do we bring these naysayers? I mean, that that’s what was one way of dealing with that that’s an employee supposed, the naysayers are on the board and you’re you’re tryingto get them to think in some broader new value kinds of ways. So i i think we should be grateful for on a says that i don’t think the job is to persuade them or to say yes, i think part of the job of, i think there’s a certain type of naysayers who just doesn’t like change, and they’re just going to say no to anything nukes they don’t like you and like you should do you think those people are worth discounting in general? And i just i haven’t got much time for that, but i think it’s a very small percentage of the market, then the large percent is the market people who were genuinely not sure this is a good idea or this is gonna work and them expressing their view in the face of that particular with new ideas, people very enthusiastic about new ideas is really good to hear from people who don’t think that the ideas of right. When we started giving tuesday a lot people thought there wasn’t a very good idea and they were the most valuable voices of all. I mean by far because the people who said, hey, this is so cool let’s do it together. That was super helpful with like, building enthusiasm. It didn’t make it a better project. What made it a better project was remember, jerry hirsch has become a friend who who supported giving beauty right back in the beginning. He runs the lode star foundation, remember, he had me on the phone for an hour and fifteen minutes about all things i had wrong about giving tuesday on i remember was the most helpful conversations i’ve ever had because he genuinely likes new ideas. He just had a bunch so things he didn’t think we’ve got right on dh, you know, he was right, actually, as it turned out, so i don’t think our job is to the extreme naysayers who were just doing a cz life choice ignore them. Everyone else is an important data point for how you shape an idea or shape a movement. So i hope that we spend more time listening to them and we are certainly a board level. We’ve had some terrific conversations between people who are who are on convinced we should be doing work all around the world who think we should be sticking to our local work should be focusing on like second elects. What business have we got? You know, launching, you know e-giving campaigns with partners in tanzania, right? It’s, a very reasonable question, but but the nature of that dialogue, if it’s done right, you know, it’s zumbi, we shall be very proud ofthe right there’s something this’s going to get very highfalutin, but like there’s something kind of talmudic socratic about this, about people being prepared to have different views and test those views and push them against each other. And if you do that in a decent and honorable and a trusting way out of that friction, but i think becomes progress. So i hope that’s how i think about naysayers, i do get irritated with people who are kind of anti new ideas because i’m someone who’s very pro new ideas. So i do. There is a kind of default professional mindset, which is everything is wrong until you prove it’s right? I don’t think that’s actually very helpful, but i don’t think we should be too scathing of people who very, reasonably roll their eyes once in a while. I’m very grateful for the people i’ve had so many bad ideas, i mean so many and i’ve been so lucky to have people around me who said that’s a terrible idea i teach earlier read it the story of how they, how they mistreated because we were talking about volunteers that they had moderators, pure volunteers wait a few minutes after what i want to tell that tell that reddit story so red, it is really fascinating as platform because a lot of the channels, all of the challenges are run by moderators, so these volunteers who actually essentially all the overseers of the various reddit channels and so they can work out what’s being said they can flag things, they could change thing they can set some of the rules and they can essentially shut the challenge down. So read it had a moment in their community where there was a big kind of flash point around their ceo elon power on her leadership, and then her eventual firing and the whole thing was was was handled pretty badly, and then a number of their moderators, the most beloved kind of community managers disappeared and what happened, wass the community ofthe moderators turned against the platform, so they actually started shutting read it down. So the people who were in charge of all these challenge started shutting all the channels down to send a message to ready about the power they have over the platform and there’s such an interesting dynamic, and you’ve seen that play out since that happened with reddit, you’ve seen campaigns like the delete uber campaign come along when people are really making meaningful, essentially these are platform protests, that’s how to think about them, and so those things are beginning to happen more and more often as people realised that our collective power over some of these platforms is not insignificant interesting to the recent facebook shareholder meeting, there was a big pushback from ordinary average shareholders against the platform itself, so i think one thing you’ll see a lot more off in the months and years ahead, as you’ll see muchmore articular platform protests ofthe groups off users banding together say, look, i actually expect a b and c from my interaction with with platform, you know, whatever plac what happens to be read it learned that lesson and actually, you know, i think they did learn some lessons from that moment on dh there model is particularly vulnerable to that because they’ve handed up so they’ve handed over so much power to their moderators, but also that’s why they’ve supercharged their platform? What what reddit has done so well is they’ve got there were all these people around the world who were deeply invested in their work, and i’m very responsible for their work. People who oversee the channels that read it, they feel as much connection to their audiences. You did your part? I am connected to this podcast, right? Thank you, henry tim’s, we gotta leave it there. Get the book for pete’s sake. Just get the book about new power. You’ll find it at this is newpower dot com follow-up henry tim’s he’s at henry timms. Thank you so much. Next week, avoid website ageism and grants for doobies. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wepner, cps, dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us this is the last broadcast coming from this studio of talking alternative. The studio is moving minutes after this show ends. Next show will be in a brand new place on a few blocks up our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer he’s. The one moving the show’s social media is by susan chavez. And this cool music is by scott steiner brooklyn be with me next week for non-profit. Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be green. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get in. Nothing. Good. Hello, this is bruce chamois, coast of the web design and technology coach. Join me and my guests every tuesday from eight to nine pm. As we discussed the latest in web design, social media, marketing, search, engine optimization and technology way also discussed popular topics, including ward press, making money. All i better cool rankings and more every month way. Also feature the best unsigned music from around the world right here on talk radio dot n y c. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor in center of attention later. Tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio done n y c hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio dot. You’re listening to the talking alternative network.

Giving Tuesday on Nonprofit Radio

Giving Tuesday is November 28 this year and Nonprofit Radio has your resources, tips, tools and strategies to make it successful. Are you looking for donors, volunteers, in-kind gifts, signers, marchers, door knockers, callers? Whatever your goal for Giving Tuesday, you’re covered here with my roundup and the show on Friday, September 29. 

Nonprofit Radio for January 16, 2015: #GivingTuesday Founder & The Fourth Sector

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

I Love Our Sponsor!

Sponsored by Generosity Series, a nationwide series of multi-charity 5K events that provide a proven peer-to-peer fundraising platform to charities and an amazing experience for their participants.

Sign-up for show alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Henry Timms: #GivingTuesday Founder

Henry Timms is the founder of #GivingTuesday. He shares its origins; how it did in 2014; how your nonprofit can participate; and takes on the critics.




Gene TakagiThe Fourth Sector

Gene TakagiWhy you need to recognize, understand and respond to the growth of for-profit social enterprises. Gene Takagi is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.




Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

Sign-up for show alerts!

Sponsored by: GenEvents logo
View Full Transcript

Transcript for 223_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20150116.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:15:42.575Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2015…01…223_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20150116.mp3.248663268.json
Path to text: transcripts/2015/01/223_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20150116.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host, our listener of the week, beth burghdoff ski, she tweeted. Tony martignetti non-profit radio is one of my favorite podcast to listen to we’re gonna make it the favorite. She reviewed the show on her blogged she reviewed the show on her own podcast, which is called driving participation it’s about branding, marketing and fund-raising you could check out driving participation on itunes, and she is at beth burghdoff ski b r o d o v s k y beth, i’m going to send you a video so you can pick a book from the non-profit radio library and i will send you the title of your choice. Congratulations on being our listener of the week, beth burghdoff ski very grateful for your support. You know, i’m glad that everyone is with me because i’d be forced to bear the pain of paki and nicky, a congenital if i came in contact with the notion that you had missed today’s show e-giving tuesday, founder henry teams is the founder of giving tuesday he shares its origins how it did in twenty fourteen how it got here, how your non-profit can participate and takes on the critics the fourth sector is the second segment why you need to recognize, understand and respond to the growth of for-profit social enterprises. Jean takagi is our legal contributor and the principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group, san francisco on tony’s take two between the guests, please, i urge you get started with planned e-giving were sponsored by generosity, siri’s they host multi charity five k runs and walks. I’m very glad that henry james is with me in the studio. He’s, the founder of giving tuesday the global philanthropic movement that engaged more than ten thousand partners worldwide. He’s, a practitioner in residence at the stanford university center on philanthropy and civil society and was named non-profit times influencer of the year in twenty fourteen that’s that’s old news we’re going to this year that’s right of resting on laurels already yesterday’s man he’s, executive director of the ninety second street y still does that in new york city, which is a very big y, very big cultural institution. Really. In new york city, you’ll find giving tuesday. At giving tuesday dot or ge and he is at h tim’s t i double m s many times welcome to studio. Well, it’s, great to be here. I’m a big fan and i really appreciate everything you do for the sector. Thank you, it’s, our it’s. My pleasure. I love giving back teo non-profits on dh this is how we do it. Yeah, um, you have a lot to say about the premise that power is shifting say something. S so one of the things we’ve been thinking about a bit is, and i think this is true of giving tuesday, but also true more widely of some of the things i’m going to get to that, of course, doing in the uae is the way in which we were all thinking really carefully about how technology is changing, right? So we’re thinking about how we should get digital people on board and how we should make sure we understand twitter, but but i think something deeper is actually happening, which isn’t actually superficially about how technology is changing, but really how human being is changing. And we just put together a paper for hbr with my colleague jeremy. Heimans last month, which is really around this idea that the shift we should be anticipating isn’t about how technology changes, but how power to changes on that power is shifting from a model that you can think on his old power, which is very much about command and control, and downloading on your audiences to a model is really about new power, a new powers, really, about engagement, about participation on about theory around upload about how you really engage on it seems to me especially we think about the non-profit world that shift, which is from you, talking out audiences and telling them what they should care about, too. You actually engaging your communities to get behind the cause you care about is going to be a pivotal issue for us for the next decade on i want to include a link to that harvard business review article way posed toe takeaways on facebook, so i’ll i’ll make sure link is they’re not great, i won’t listen, we just we just launched this is that? Is that legal you presented to me, your incoherent? You’re in good shape, actually in a very in a very new power away. Harvard business review has actually start opening up their content a lot. Mohr to make it much more terrible on we’d love some reactions from the nonprofit sector because it’s a it’s a new idea, i think it could be valuable, and we’d love to know what people think. And that article was just last month. Yeah, it was the big idea in the december issue that you had to do something going out of your being non-profit influencer of the year, you had to end on a high note, but of course, now the now you have something more to do in twenty fifteen. Yeah, the from that article you know some of the new power values informal open source collaboration, radical transparency. Do it yourselves, you know, vs the traditional managerial ism institutional ism holding power, not not sharing content and knowledge. Yeah, i think the the one frame that we’ve used to kind of to simplify the idea is thinking about power less as a currency on maura’s a current so how is power? Not something that i own and xero some. But how is it? How is it a current? How does it build? How does it grow, and i think that idea for the nonprofit sector is so important, especially we think about fund-raising because i think we’re entering a period where we are trying to shift from a mentality where we think about donors, right? We have our old power donors, so when we get them to give us money, but the cause is who we’re going to really win won’t have donors, they’ll have owners will have people who actually are completely believing in their cause and getting behind it, and you only need to look at something like a recipe for ice bucket challenge, which really wasn’t about donors. It was about owners, it was about people who really believed they were the agents of change. I think that idea is a very big idea for the future. I had the ceo of a less on to recap buy-in in september, october something i just they’re going twelve tremendous learning from that. And actually, one thing i read from your twitter feed was a fund-raising expert who had written a complaint that she had sent eight checks toe organizations for year end and two months later, five them and yeah, she’s i think it’s at the-whiny-donor think that’s the i’m not even sure if the man or a woman i don’t know if the person won’t reveal themselves just at whiny donor-centric ember eight checks issue to most later three of them for them hadn’t sent think yes, that’s a donor not on owner comps pair that to something like a less where you have people who are literally the stars of the show that shift is going is going to be, i think, monumental for our sector and i love the metaphor of power because power is not has no value unless it’s flowing, yeah, that’s, right? And the new model is it’s flowing out in terms? I mean, i think of myself, you know, four years ago i had been a content i mean, there have been a host of a show now now i’m a content creator on dh that on that trend is only going to continue, and the way i think we need to think about it is not in terms ofthe the technological bias, right, which is most non-profit you see this problem, lunge a twitter right? So they suddenly think i better get on twitter. And this problem will go away is really not about that it’s actually, about you thinking about how you enlist people in a very human way to get behind the things you care about. The big new power challenge, i think, is getting the non-profit sector to shift in that direction. And how is giving tuesday an example of this new power shift? Well, i think in in two ways one in its design. So we we started giving tuesday at the ninety second street y, but it was never the ninety second street wise giving tuesday, right? The old power model would have been it’s, the ninety second street wise, giving tuesday. We spent all of our time making sure we got a lot of media and a lot of credit for it. And it would have probably affected people two blocks to the north and two blocks to the south and that’s as far as it would have gone. But we deliberately said it needed to be open source. That giving tuesday needs to be non branded by anybody. Which means that anyone from the red cross to the night, second street why? To the fourteenth street? Why? Teo, people in the uk but take the same theme and respond to it. And that was a very new power idea, which was it’s really not about command and control, but actually creating tools for people to engage exactly and that’s what you see when you goto e-giving tuesday dot or ge there’s a whole bunch of sharing tools, there’s videos explaining what what charity’s could have done, what you could do have to get involved. It’s, it’s, it’s empowering the sector and sharing enormously we’re on the story, i think which doesn’t get told often, which i think is important is that this was not all right. This was not our phrase. Someone described giving tuesday as a shared learning environment and actually because of giving tuesday hours and hours of free resources, always free have been created for the non-profits actor, i’m a friend of my marian salzman, who is one of the world’s leading expert in marketing and pr did a special webinar specifically about how how did you hyper local targeting for non-profits right? She is one of the most sought after experts in the country, but she’s providing that for the sector. Andi, i think as we move forward with giving tuesday how we can use it to help the sector learn together us most of all right, how we can all learn together is going to be the story which no one will write about, but i think it’s probably gonna be the most influential one let’s go out for a couple minutes when we come back. Of course, henry now i’m going to keep talking about giving tuesday it’s history evolution through the years, and we’ll take on some of the critics stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s. Time for live listener love, green bay, virginia, new city, new york, new city call that’s up, rocklin county, way just above new york city on the other side, st louis, missouri, new bern, north carolina live listener love to each let’s go abroad, we’ve got shenfeld, germany. I may not have pronounced that right. I apologize. Guten tag, japan. I can’t see which city your city is masked, konichiwa, and we’ve got korea, kwang ho dong korea, anya haserot live, listen, love more to come, and i’m looking for, ah, special live listeners who should be in california and santa lucia preserve way. Don’t see her yet, nobody from california, sam, okay, i’ll shut her out when she when she joins us, okay. How did e-giving tuesday start? You had these obviously had this power shift ideas, how do we get this thing started? So we were thinking, you know, the night second street wise community centre, what we spend our days thinking about is how you bring people together and that’s what we’ve done for one hundred forty years, and we were thinking, especially around the holidays, you know, about black friday, you know, about cyber monday, consumer oriented america’s wallets are open, wouldn’t it make sense that the non-profit world is a part of that conversation? So the initial idea, which was black friday cyber monday e-giving tuesday and so it began with a team of the why, but then what began to happen, which i think we learned a lot from was it wasn’t just the leaders of the white who were working on this, but actually people from lots of different organizations. So some people from stanford university, from the economist from facebook, most of all, from the u n foundation, who actually formed a team of lots of different leaders and experts to kind of frame the idea to shape it, to start rolling it out on we kind of got on with the year one and we you know what? Just two and a half years ago, which seems unbelievable. The first e-giving tuesday was which your tio two thousand eleven? So we thought this was giving tuesday three we’re done three of them now, and we launched it with seventy days to go. And it really caught on the first year more than we thought it would. And that really gave us a chance to start thinking a bit more carefully about what this is, how it can be helpful to the sector most of all to learn. I really think it’s important with giving tuesday to think this is very early on in a project, right? This is we’ve done this for less than three years. The real question is going to be, i think, two or three years out, when we start to see the kind of scale we can get to in the kind of depth of impact we can reach. But that’s where it began, it began with an idea about collaboration, especially one of the things in the nonprofit sector. We all suffer from andi. I run a non profit, so i understand this is we all want to raise money for ourselves, right? We were always fighting against each other to some degree. We wanted to experiment with this idea that actually, there could be a tide that helps lift all ships. That was one of the driving ideas behind giving tuesday. I’ve had honest asia dellaccio on from the u n foundation she’s trouble a year and a half or two years ago, talking about giving tuesday she’s tremendous she’s one of the you know, she’s one of those people actually are who i think represents a new generation of leader that that kind of millennial voice who is so deeply committed to changing the world but also is so savvy on some of these new power tools, right? She’s someone who really gets how the world is changing, i’m not sure that’s true, more broadly in the nonprofit sector, i think that’s one of the big challenges that we think about a lot, which is how how is a sector? Can we make this turn as quickly as some other industries are? You can follow anesthesia because she owns shows. Owns a gelato company in washington, dc, and she is at dull ci d o l c i t sweet gelato is what it translates to, but dellaccio gelati is onstage dellaccio how did e-giving tuesday do in twenty fourteen third year? So i thought we saw some really positive progress. We had twenty thousand partners take twenty thousand? Yeah, you know where they got out of the states that there’s amglobal there’s some global numbers in there too. So people around the world on dh i think we made a really important we can talk about the numbers in a minute, which i know is where the conversation always ends up, but i thought something else happened, which was important, which was we made a statement about shared values with the driving idea behind giving tuesday when it began wasn’t immediately how can we run up the score in terms of dollars? It was much more about saying at a time when we are reaching the end of the year, we’re thinking about what we’re grateful for with entering the season of giving how can we actually start a bigger conversation about caring for other people? Because philanthropy, of course, is the ultimate expression of that it’s the ultimate expression of caring for more people. So i think the biggest win with giving tuesday in my mind last year, was what it demonstrated was the power off of really hundreds of thousands of people around the world to pause at a time off consumption and understand really unruly, underline how much they wanted to give back to others. She started to see a cultural shift, i think that’s right? I think that’s the hope, i think that’s the hope that actually you khun galvanize that and i think the great hope for giving tuesday a time when so much divides us so often the idea that something which can bring together people in all fifty states, all different backgrounds, all different levels of diversity or different political beliefs, if we can come together around the most human act, which is carrying from one another, i think that’s a really important idea, but i won’t dodge the question, which is about the money. Yeah, we’ll get to that. But it’s a beautiful, you know, unless somebody collapse wednesday. I don’t know what will happen with wednesday, but you know, it’s, beautiful book and thanksgiving and then and you didn’t mention small business saturday, of course, nor to another support your local small business and endeavor way have a conversation year one one of the smartest investors in entrepreneurs in new york who’s an adviser of ours, i said, leave it for a year, you haven’t got you haven’t got the plans together, don’t do it like seventy days, way launch quick, but they’re one of the main reasons for that was i was pretty convinced someone was going to grab tuesday. I actually thought what was never speaking to happen was on the back of black friday and cyber monday there would be another, whatever you know, lt was coming. Thank you, thank your customers tuesday or whatever it wants, so i actually thought it was important we try and grab it for the philanthropic sector. All right? Did you hear rumors or was just was the universe talking to you that way? I think it was an instinct. I think it was. It was an instinct instinct. I i admire instinct enormously. I don’t often kick myself if i if i don’t follow it. But then also the book end. So, you know, you think thanksgiving and giving tuesday book ending these consumption days in the middle? I you know, i i admire the idea well on the other it’s checking things out, the other thing we thought was important, and actually, this was an idea off matthew bishop, so the economist who who’s, a really obviously leading thinker in the flandez piece based he was always pushing us hard from the start on saying this should be the opening day of the giving season, right? So the giving season has a very big clothes the last three days of the year, but it doesn’t really have an opening on obviously, december is the most important month for a lot of non-profits toe raise funds and awareness and volunteering, so that was always a framing idea for giving tuesday, and we’ve seen some pretty interesting data on that point. Okay, numbers, terms of dollars charities. So thie the case foundation working with indiana university, did a good sample of a lot off the main online processes, and they’re counting around forty six million dollars from a group, often not all of them but a group of processes online there’s also, of course, a lot of offline money coming in to and there’s a lot of volunteering hours on other activations around giving choosy that we think is important, but the number which the press is always going to get his forty six million yeah, the dollars given, but yeah, the volunteering i mean that that dovetails with the shift that you’re the cultural shift that you were seeing that e-giving i also think, yeah, broader definition. I also think there’s something which people are doing well, which is using giving tuesday, is an on ramp for people to have longer relationships, so the people actually using giving tuesday is the start of something and then driving it through the whole of december or doing a match campaign for all of december, or pushing people towards, for example, recurring e-giving e-giving toothy is also mally just a notch, right? So it’s a moment, and if we could make it a very big nudge, i think it can be very powerful, but it is pushing a lot of people in the same direction to take philantech be just that bit more seriously, and then our job. Is non-profits is to grab their attention and turn into something sustainable? Yes, and and i think some of the critics don’t i don’t know, maybe they’re not crediting non-profits with recognizing that that it’s just a start or they don’t feel that it’s that that that’s going to happen, you know, there are some who say that it’s just taking giving from some other some of the day and transplanting it to this day. It’s yeah, i mean, i was master that yeah, i think it’s important, it’s important to think about that and the data we’ve seen so far don’t perfect. Did a good survey of there are quite a decent sample size of their organizations and actually found those organizations participating in giving tuesday. We’re doing twice as well online in all of december grayce was powerful and then the real one of people i listen too. We all listen to a lot on these ideas that steve mclaughlin a blackboard on dh he really has a strong view, which i think is right about the importance of us not fearing scarcity in the nonprofit sector, where we kind of have this oliver complex that we tremble. As we ask for mohr on dh and actually i think what the data shows is asking is, what leads you to getting money? The critique then e-giving choose which i think is is important to address is then, is it just in the moment? Right? So people think, is it one and done? I think that’s a reasonable concern, but again, i think what you’re seeing with giving tuesday is those organizations who are really winning big of those who have seen this in a very strategic and comprehensive way that bringing people on board and then they’re working out ways to keep them a comprehensive way. It’s not a day it’s it’s part of your overall strategy on dh bringing people, and then you have a responsibility to keep them engaged and invested. Wait, we are often say around the office that you know if e-giving is is a marriage e-giving tuesday’s the anniversary, right? So this should be going all year round, but this is a special day to engage on. I’ll give you one example of that which was very powerful, i thought from this year so the university of michigan they took giving tuesday they turned into giving blue day, right? So they talk they remix very new power idea, which which was remixing the concept to make you more relevant to them. It’s making more about them less about us, they turn it into giving flu did they set themselves a big goal, which is a million dollars to raise. And they caught everyone from their alums to the students, to the president or working via social media to dr money online. Their goal was a million. They made three point four million dollars on the day, which was mohr than they were ever making on the last day of the year. But much more importantly than the dollar figure, they made a statement about value. They actually got these the shift i was talking about earlier, which is shifting people from donors to owners. They didn’t just raise three point four million dollars. They brought a whole community to be their fund-raising team that’s the big idea, i think around giving tuesday very good. This is why i love this is a podcast because people can now go back and listen to that last sentence that you just said. Donors toe owners a bigger volunteer community helping sustained that sustain the movement you know all the fund-raising data says the same thing, which is the most powerful way you can get a gift is if a friend asks for it, right? What does facebook? Facebook is an entire ecosystem off friends and friends and friends. It is the biggest fund-raising force in the history of mankind, and no one has begun to tap that yet and again, lots of tools for using giving tuesday in your lorts much larger plan at e-giving tuesday dot org’s so it shouldn’t be intimidated by this idea now that’s, right? And the other thing we’ll do throughout the year, we always have a bit of a break, but actually one thing we’ll do throughout the year launching in sort of february march is very regular seminar’s webinars best practices will do sessions about campaigns that worked really well. We’ll do sessions about campaigns that didn’t work so well, but what we’re going to really try and do is make sure that we learn from giving tuesday because i think we as a community are often jumping to verdicts. This is tremendous, this is awful. The truth is always more nuanced, and we we as we enter this new power world with so many of the dynamics, are changing. And a time when so many of our behaviors are based on old power principles. Our willingness to engage with real change is so important, and, i hope giving choose. They can play a small role in that. Now, another challenge is you’ll see that people will take the dollar amount raised e-giving tuesday and divided by the number of charities and say the average was somewhere around three thousand dollars. Or if they’re being generous, sometimes they’ll up. The numbers could account for under reporting, and they’ll maybe, say, six thousand dollars for charity. Is that, you know, is it is it worth the effort? Well, i mean, i think if you talk to a lot of non-profits in this country, six thousand dollars is a huge amount of money for a lot of non-profits that really makes a big difference because many of the non-profits they’re small, they have small budgets and they’re doing incredibly important work, so i think i think we should always be careful, especially larger organizations, to discount the importance of small amounts of money, smaller amounts of money. I think i’d say something else, too, which is if you had said, i’ve found the way to get twenty thousand organizations or ten thousand organizations avectra six thousand dollars, people would probably think that’s quite a good thing in the world, so i think to we can build on that we can grow that number, but i still think that the i don’t think i have to be able to prove this, i expect, but i think the mohr maur, the bigger contribution of giving tuesday isn’t going to be just a dose of the dollar amount, which i think will grow, i think it will actually be about how it encourages people to try new things and actually what? I was interested this year in what i saw my end of year, i got asked obviously i gots listed for end of year from a lot of organizations i didn’t see very much creativity in that at all. I saw a lot of people saying it’s the last day of the year, but give me some money with giving tuesday i saw a lot more creativity. I saw a lot more engagement on a really interesting statistic from blackboard they saw seventeen percent one seven percent of the money coming in via mobile, right seventy seven buy-in mobile this is a very different idea for us. A sector on dh there was a really interesting article this week about how much trouble, how much over challenge non-profit sector is having in adopting mobile in a meaningful way and if you look at any of the trend data on what mobile is going to do, tow our organization’s it’s going to be exponential changed for years. So again, i hope what we could do with giving twosies actually shift the mindset, teo encourage a lot more learning a lot. More entrepreneurialism and then ultimately why we’re in this is a lot more impact. There was criticism of blackbaud also because they have some self interest, they they make money as people give through the mobile platform of theirs, which is a very popular i mean, that’s been there’s been a critique writ large off of all of the kind of different operators, and of some of the giving days all of these things, which is what is the role for commercial benefit in some of these sectors? I have to say, i think some of the more powerful arguments here are thinking about the level of quality that they can bring to the sector on what that value is two non-profits on someone like blackbaud who actually think, add so much value for non-profit that is really worth something, and i would say, is someone running a non-profit i would take that kind of investment very seriously. You just mentioned, you know, trying something different, and i i’m a huge fan and see i have the beauty of not being a journalist, so i don’t have to be oh, fan of giving tuesday and basically, i say, fuck the critics. Because, you know, we see so much. The sector sent to be very tend to be very critical of itself. I think ice bucket challenge was an example that harsh critics not giving the organization of chance, and then you also see so many people they want to encourage innovation on a lot of times i see it on twitter through mahatma gandhi or maya angelou quotes, you know, be the change you want in the world think global act locals think big, small you shook things up, you know? You started something that has enormous potential and so far hasn’t fallen on its face. Let’s give the damn thing a chance, you’re shaking things up, and so i hope the critics recognize that well, i pride probably would not share the language but share some of the sentiments. Which thing? I think the thing i think more about actually we’ve heard this from giving tuesday often is the twenty three year old person who’s just joined your non-profit who’s caught some big ideas and doesn’t feel empowered to try them time and again. Actually, what we heard about giving tuesday was, well, we gave this project to the intern on the intern, then delivered sameh zing. Results on actually, i think, that’s the our capacity to try new things, to be bold, to be ambitious. I think that capacities the most important idea, and i think the critics looked ideas like this should have critics they should have constructed. That ecosystem is good for the world, but i do think i would draw a line at the point in which we are fearful of innovation, right that’s, a very different idea, and i think our fear of innovation as a sector is going to hold us back more than almost anything outstanding. Henry tim’s. You’ll follow him! Find him on twitter at h tim’s t i double m s e-giving tuesday dot organ i mentioned a bunch of times, and he’s, the executive director of ninety second street y, which is nine too wide dot org’s. Thank you very much, henry it’s. Great to be here. Pleasure. I like to have you back. We have tony’s take two and jean takagi coming up first i have to alert you to generosity siri’s, you know, they host those five k runs and walks. Henry was talking about community building. This is a community of small and midsize non-profits that can’t run their own five k events. You know she’s not going to get enough people, you’re going to get like twenty five or thirty people on a on a five k track in a park. You can’t do it it’s not feasible, but when twelve or fifteen or twenty small midsize shops each contribute twenty five, thirty people, then you have a fantastic fund-raising event fun event that’s what generosity siri’s does. They put the charity partners together so that you have a day long. Actually, that was only half a day successful five k event talk to dave lynn he’s the c e o he’s at seven one eight five o six nine triple seven also generosity siri’s dot com my video this week start your planned giving with bequests this year big misconceptions around plant e-giving it’s not on ly for big shops you don’t need a lot of you don’t need internal expertise and it’s not on ly for wealthy donors small midsize shops khun do enormously well with donors of very modest means you start planned giving with bequests why i explain it in the video i’ve got links to a six article guidestar siri’s that i wrote on the subject at the video. Think about it. Now is the time to start a planned e-giving program with requests the video is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday sixteenth of january show number two of the year jean takagi he’s around he’s, the managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco he edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com and on twitter he is at gi tak gt a k welcome back, jean takagi hyre durney great to be here. Thank you. Where you calling from? Yui san francisco today i’m actually in washington d c today your dc ah you with the fourth sector conference, right? Exactly right. Great chances. Okay. What is this? Fourth sector? This fourth dimension we have to deal with. Well, oftentimes the non-profit sectors thought of as the third sector. Independent sector and there’s. This new sort of class of organizations that are coming out. Some of them are for-profit. Some of them are non-profits, and they’re commonly referred to as social enterprises or for benefit organizations. And they’re kind of this diverse class of organizations that shared two main characteristics. And one is that they are primarily driven by social and door, environmental purpose. And two they earned a substantial portion of their income through earned revenues or business activities. Social or environmental is where you see most of them. Is that right? That’s? Right, danny? Okay. Ah, and what forms of organization are they are they take it so you’ll see many of them is existing non-profits and these have been around for a long time. So goodwill is an example of an organisation, social or charitable purpose, but derive a substantial portion of their income through earned revenues. Um, the national geographic society is another great example of ah, non-profit which actually has a bunch of for-profit subsidiary in affiliate organizations as well all structured together, you know, seen as part of this fourth sector comprised of both non-profits and for-profit that are really looking at earned revenue is the primary way to make money and not just relying ondo native incomes a little bit different from what you and henry we’re talking about, but involving some of the same people was interesting that henry mentioned matthew bishop from the economist who is the one who sort of popularized the term philantech row philantech rabbo capitalism, our philantech xero capitalism and basically looking at this fourth sector idea on dh, he mentioned the case foundation, which is tracking the giving tuesday funds that were raised, i’m sorry. Ah, and the challenge funds our raised and the case foundation are really strong proponents of impact investments and its port sector in backto jean k c e o of the case foundation was there at that gathering, the what we’re seeing is that these fourth sector organizations sabat can very well be taking our are taking money from what? What henry would call the traditional power and values charities. Yeah, i think there’s there’s a big trend going on and there’s quite a bit of competition that a lot of non-profits especially traditional non-profits may not be aware of, and i kind of wanted to talk a little bit more about about that competition because i think it’s really something that non-profits have to be aware of, um, they’re big movements right now of money of talent, of business that they’re going to for-profit that see themselves as social enterprises, many of them that are very true and sincere about their driving, their social purposes, but some of them out there who are sort of posing as these social enterprises but really, after a new market and in you niche. Teo generate as much profit as they can, so trying to distinguish between those who are really social enterprises in those who might just being bailing themselves and that the guys is really important, okay, let’s, well, we’ll come to making sure you’re dealing with a bona fide social benefit enterprise. Another concern are just around the competition. I just want to make this clear that that corporation money can go in this direction as well. Yeah, and, you know, while i mentioned examples of non-profit social enterprises before in goodwill and national geographic, there’s there plenty of for-profit competitors out there already and where competition for funds is is already existing. And, for example, there’s, a very popular charity right now called cuba, but keep it facilitates a lot of donors to be able to make loans to small micro businesses and developing nations, and and also they started in the united states as well for disadvantaged communities so people can go on the keepers site and make these micro loans to these businesses. But those are not donations those air loans that you’re making, you don’t get a charitable deduction for making that loan to another individual. Oh! Our group of individuals, you’re funding a business basically through alone. Crowdfunding often has seen the same way some crowdfunding is done by non-profits, but primarily it’s driven by for-profit, many of which are pursuing social names. But individuals, rather than may be making a donation to charity, are starting to find crowdfunding, a project that may or may not be charitable crowd funding projects and making loans to micro enterprises through cuba, which are not charitable donations. And this is you believe, ah, a recognizable portion of this is what would have been terrible money. Yeah, and i’m not saying that that’s a bad thing at all on dh, you’ll see proponents of the port sector and and i’m a big fan of what’s what’s happening, although again distinguishing between the real ones and the not real ones is important. It is just knowing that that that competition is out there and it’s going to drive non-profits or it should be driving non-profits to compete by showing impact, demonstrating impact, going after these big entrepreneurial goals that the social enterprises go after and seem to attract a lot of money doing so. And, you know, i’ve been talking about individual donations, which some people might think of more smaller potatoes, although obviously the ellis challenge showed you how much can be raised through those means think about organizations like google and their commitment tio, you know, donate one percent of their profits, too, doing a social good? Well, most of that donation that heavy bulk of that donation is not non-profits and one percent of google revenue that’s a lot of money or hate dunaj you know, most of them are thine google bone initiatives and corporate money may be going to their own community see csr or corporate social responsibility goals rather than going teo corporate sponsorships to charity foundation grant was going to be going to the social enterprises as well, because there’s this attraction out there that a for-profit social enterprise, i can create a sustainable source of income to continue doing it social good. And so once he set up the infrastructure for which you might foundation might give grant money, you don’t have to keep giving grants to these organizations because they’re letting the market forces then create the sustainable business, getting underserved communities like impoverished areas with goods and services that otherwise would not go there. All right, corporation money. We see foundation money, individual and with respect to the individual e-giving there’s, something called sector agnosticism that you’ve blogged about. I wanted to explain sure. So the general idea that individuals, donors thunders are all becoming are trending. I should say, i shouldn’t say this is the majority view point yet, but there’s certainly trending uh towards being sector agnostic in that if we want to solve a particular problem, whether it’s getting water to people who otherwise would not be ableto access clean water, or get people to reduce recidivism in person coming out of prison, nor drug abuse flooring that a lot of people are saying well, traditional charities kind of continues to put the bandage on you. No problem and that’s super important to help the people who are currently suffering, but maybe not doing enough to cure that problem. That social problem, which is a huge, huge challenge, and i don’t know that non-profits deserved to be criticized for that very much, but some for, you know, proponents of the fourth sector thing will for-profit can come in, and their health is really needed in order to actually make a big dent in these problems, and they’re looking at it from a slightly different way, and i think all players they’re needed here, i think, government, these fourth sector organizations, i think, traditional businesses that are just after port, you know, profits as well. It’s got to be thinking about this, because consumers now are you gonna buy, and we’re going to start to see this more and more back-up those companies that are doing something about the problems in the world, and not just making much money as they can and the sector agnosticism is people are not really caring what form of organization they’re giving to, or investing in a cz long as they’re seeing impact. Yeah, absolutely. And thank youfor summarizing attorney, that that was really well put, okay? We don’t need you to wait some time. Okay? So we definitely need you. Takagi i take that back. In fact, i’ll tell eugene you have a very big fan listening read stockman and always listening cause he tweeted us that he’s looking forward to listening to you. He e mailed me today saying he is a very big fan of yours. Reed’s document live listen, her love to you and jean reed is a very big fan. Thanks and read and i have communicated through twitter and i’m a big fan of reasons. Well, good. I’m glad i don’t have to be there the person conveying the message anymore. You guys were in that guys are in touch. You know how much he admires your work. Okay, you mentioned it a couple times distinguishing between imposters and bona fide social benefit organizations. Yes, i mean that’s one of the big challenges out there because everybody khun say that they have a social purpose and if you just allow any business itself declare itself is socially good. That could be, you know, a problem for the community going well, we’re going to buy their products because they say they’re good. And they’re commercial look really great. Well, that isn’t enough, and maybe some laws or policies can help in that direction. And maybe that is why we’ve seen the advent of the so called high braider alternative forms of corporations that take on some of the characteristics of non-profits and that they have some sort of social purpose involved but are still for-profit taxable organizations with shareholders who khun get dividends and distributions and make a lot of money to companies succeed. So it’s kind of that in between place more for-profit than non-profit i would say, but there’s a spectrum of how charitable they khun b and for that reason we’ve seen things like the benefit corporation. Some people call it the beat corporation, which is slightly different and all explain the difference in just a second, but social purpose corporation on the low profit, limited liability company or the altri see those air, the three big new types of legal corporate form that we’re seeing in different states. So if you want to partner with an organization, you should be looking for one that is designated in one of these ways. Well, that may be a sign, so it’s one of the signs and we’re in very, very new ground here, they’ve only been sort of developed and created over the last six or seven years, and the benefit corporations now are almost or in about half of the states right now after being first introduced about three or four years ago, i think in maryland first, so it’s going to be very, very interesting to see where where these organizations go, but there are other indicators as well of possible good partners for non-profits that are not just disguising themselves as a socially purposed organizations and that’s just to really that their activities and their purpose statements and their governing documents and see what they’re all about and take a look at their ownership structure and their board of directors does he woulda non-profit grantee to see if you can find out a little bit more about the for-profit and the big corp certification. Jean hold on the different from benefit corporation, but it’s called they’re often both called b corpse that be corpses or certified b corp is this good housekeeping type of seal of approval that is given by this independent nonprofit organization called b? Lap. And so if you meet their criteria, social good and it’s, a fairly rigorous test, and you have to be subject yourself to potential audits from the organization as well, so they can check that years you’re walking the walk and not just talking the talk. Bye, dee corpse status, and you’ll see a circle be around some organizations like patagonia on dh, er, jessica alba’s company. I think it’s, the honest company, those are certified, be corporations, and may make for great partners as well, because you have this outside entity that’s, creating these independent standards of what it is to be a social enterprise and certifying those organizations. Gene let’s, take a break, stay with us. We’ll continue the conversation. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked, and they are levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige nani, author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. Oppcoll time for pod classed pod classed this’s, a podcast podcast pleasantries are ten thousand listeners listening through the day wherever you may be. Thank you very much for your support pod pleasantries to everyone listening through the podcast on the time shift more live listener love madison, wisconsin, new york, new york, cartersville, georgia, houston, texas falls church, virginia and we’ve got cheryl mccormick in california, santa lucia preserve, she says. It’s the most beautiful place in california near the monterey prints peninsula live listener love to each live listener jean takagi, we have this new competition that non-profits need thio embrace, recognise let’s spend a few minutes talking about how they can react to it. I imagine partnership is a possibility, yeah, absolutely, and they’re keeping that, you know, i think that are important for non-profits one is recognizing that there is some competition out there on dh there trends out there like sector gnosticism from donors and servants, purchasers and good purchasers that we talked about understanding the fraction of why social enterprises can be attractive tease individuals also really important in understanding the marketplace, and i think some non-profits haven’t done a sufficient job of understanding, not just the market of their beneficiaries that they provide services and goods to understanding the marketplace of donors and supporters and job seekers and potential board members, and knowing what they do have to do to compete for those things as well. Okay, so but let’s, let’s talk about let’s talk about potentially partnering with dahna a social benefit enterprise? Sure, and they’re different different sorts of partnerships that might be possible. So if, for example, you find a for-profit business out there that says, i, you know, let’s partner together so we can run a business using leveraging your goodwill in the community because you non-profit of god, you know, great donors and supporters, and that would really help our business. So why don’t we do something together? We’ll sell more goods and make more money for a business, but we’ll also give you a percentage of our sales, uh, in exchange for using your goodwill and and marketing together. And some of that some people will call that cause related marketing a commercial commercial. Co venturing is the term that would get me and drug in jail, i think, but those those air, the terms that indicate that sort of partnership where the for-profit leverages the non-profits goodwill on dh the non-profit benefits by getting a percentage of the sales, and you see that all over the place, right? Of course, yeah. All right, so if you can’t, you can’t beat the for-profit social enterprises, perhaps you can join them apartment and i think american express to you that this several years ago when they were on redoing the statue of liberty, and then they were raising money together that way, that that benefited both the for-profit in the non-profit so that’s that’s one way that non-profits and for-profit have done he’s partnership, if you will, for a long time. But there are all sorts of other types of relationships that are possible between non-profits and for-profit, and they can become very program specific. So if you have a nen stints of delivering water, teo communities that don’t have clean water, for example it’s very possible that either one type of entity one non-profit or one for-profit would not be the best at doing that alone, and forming partnerships with other organisations is and that’s a scary way to make that service delivery effective and efficient, and if we’re talking about that that that tends to happen more internationally, although sometimes with disaster relief, like with hurricane katrina, those could be issues domestically as well. On an everyday level, if we’re thinking about delivering food to people getting corporations, fruit corporations involved in that khun b completely beneficial toe both entities involved, particularly if you’ve got a for-profit social enterprise that really isn’t about maximizing profits, some social enterprises out there that are for-profit so they have owners are businesses that are willing to break even, and they may not even be willing to take any profit. They might take a reasonable salary like you would it a non-profits but their owners hey, you know, are model doesn’t sit in five twenty three because we’re engaged in commercial activities, but we’re actually not going to take any profit from it. We just want to make sure the services get delivered way just have about a minute left, jane ana, i want to talk about impact because you mentioned it earlier and it’s another way that non-profits can react to this trend that his new competition showing the riyadh and competition out there the for-profit social enterprises and some of the non-profit social enterprises out there well are very good about demonstrating impact and communicating it sometimes it’s marketing, but a lot of times they’ve developed systems because that’s, the way they think non-profits may not be used to that type of pressure. All the foundations are starting to put more and more pressure on them to demonstrate and communicate the impact and that, you know, i’m a big fan non-profits have been responsible for every big social change in our country and justin being able to communicate how they’re doing that and how they’re doing that is effectively and efficiently as possible is going to be super important, not just for funds, tony, but right now it may be more important to get talent because young people coming out there with big college debt, they can work for a nonprofit they can work for for-profit social enterprise non-profits gotta learn how to compete for that as well. We have to leave it there, jean takagi. You’ll find him at non-profit law blogged dot com and on twitter g tak e th thank you very much, gene. Thanks, tony. Pleasure. Next week, maria simple returns with giving circles how? Do you find them, and how do you tap into them? If you missed any part of today’s show, find it at tony martignetti dot com generosity. Siri’s good things happen when small charities come together for a five k run walk. Generosity, siri’s, dot com. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez, susan chavez. Dot com on the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, this music. I love it, it’s, cheap red wine, by scott stein. Just realize that runs be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Video: Giving Tuesday 2014 With Possum Shooting


Tools from givingtuesday.org–really valuable, like a press release; unselfie tools; and event checklist

Cooking your Tennessee possum

Webinars on using the social networks from givingtuesday.org

Shorter videos called Summer School (thank you Beth Kanter for revealing these)

Nonprofit Radio: Rachel Hutchisson and Anastasia Dellaccio on the history of Giving Tuesday and how you can get involved

“Only 37 Days Until #GivingTuesday” from Catchafire.org

“8 Last Minute Facebook Tactics” that will work this year but John Haydon wrote them in 2013. He was thinking ahead.

A challenge to Giving Tuesday by Seth Rosen

#GivingTuesday on Twitter

Henry Timms on Twitter