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Nonprofit Radio for June 5, 2020: Don’t Get Played By The Product Demo & Facebook Fundraising Data

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My Guests:

Rubin Singh: Don’t Get Played By The Product Demo
We’ve all watched in awe as the cursor flies across the screens of a demonstration. Nine months later we’re scratching our heads. “They made it look so easy back then.” Get insider tips from Rubin Singh, who’s led hundreds of sales demos. He’s CEO of OneTenth Consulting. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)



Nick Burne, Julia Campbell & Maureen Wallbeoff: Facebook Fundraising Data
This 20NTC panel feels your frustration over Facebook not sharing donor data. But they also admonish that you can’t ignore the value of Facebook fundraising. They bust myths, help you overcome the challenges, reveal how to thank and engage your fundraisers and steer you clear of pitfalls. They’re Nick Burne from GivePanel and consultants Julia Campbell and Maureen Wallbeoff.


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[00:00:11.54] spk_0:
Okay. Hello. Welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:02:30.78] spk_1:
profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. I’ll have something to say about George Floyd and racial equity in Tony’s Take Two. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of Ballon O prostatitis if you pissed me off with the idea that you missed today’s show. Don’t get played by the product demo. We’ve all watched in awe as the cursor flies across the screens of a demonstration. Nine months later, we’re scratching our heads. They made it look so easy back then. Get insider tips from Ruben Sing, who’s led hundreds of sales demos. He’s CEO of 1/10 Consulting. This is part of our 20 and TC coverage and Facebook fundraising data. This 20 and D C panel feels your frustration over Facebook not sharing donor data, but they also admonish that you can’t ignore the value of Facebook fundraising. They bust myths, help you overcome the challenges, reveal had a thank and engage your fundraisers and steer clear of pitfalls. There. Nick Byrne from Give Panel and consultants Julia Campbell and Maureen will be off tony Stick to be The change were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Here is don’t get played by the product Demo. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. That’s the 2020 non profit Technology Conference sponsored A 20 D. C by a Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guest now is Ruben Singh. He is CEO of 1/10 Consulting Ruben. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Thanks

[00:02:38.40] spk_2:
so much, tony. Glad to be here.

[00:02:48.54] spk_1:
Pleasure on pleasure. I’m glad that we could work this out virtually. And I know that you are well and safe outside Baltimore in Maryland goods, your topic is don’t get played by the product. Demo, Exclamation mark! If you’re shouting this from a mountaintop, don’t get played by the product. Demo. You’re an insider you’ve done How many? Hundreds of product demos?

[00:03:02.44] spk_2:
Yeah, definitely in in the hundred’s. But the thing is, I’ve been on all sides of it. I have, ah, delivered demos. I have been on the the the customer side or the prospects of receiving demos, and I’ve also coordinated them on behalf of my customers. So I felt like I had a lot of good experience and perhaps some insider tips and tricks toe offer.

[00:03:22.57] spk_1:
Okay, there is There is some deception in these in these demonstrations.

[00:03:40.46] spk_2:
Well, you know, I wouldn’t quite say deception. It’s a spectrum, Really, Uh, some things I have some practices I’ve seen over the years have ranged from you, maybe a little questionable to mislead it, and then some of it has been deceptive. But, you know, honestly, tony Yeah, it’s a little tongue in cheek. I I don’t want to imply, especially the non profit sector, that these that these sales reps are being dishonest in any way. I think most of them have great intentions. But what I really think that there’s a handful of tips and tricks and practices that folks can use to really make sure they’re getting the most out of their demos.

[00:05:07.37] spk_1:
Okay, My my recollection of these as a consult. So I do plan giving consulting. And I’ve gotten some demonstrations for profit from products as a as a as an observer for on the client behalf. Um, and then together we make a decision, but my memory of them is that the cursor is flying around the screen. It started non stop. And then at the very end of a 30 minute demonstration, Do you have any questions? Well, I probably had questions from screen number two about 90 seconds into the thing, but I’m flummoxed now. I’m overwhelmed by the by the movement by by the screens flying around. I can’t remember my question. I I think I had one, but I’m not positive of that. I need to I need a I need a drink. I need to calm down, because the thing just went so damn fast, you know? Um, all right, so that’s that’s probably on the negative end of the spectrum again. Not suggesting deception, but it just goes so fast, you know? Shoot. All right, So where should we start? I mean, you have tips for preparing before the demonstration starts. Yeah,

[00:05:12.64] spk_2:
Well, what you just described is a very common situation. And I would say where the biggest gap is I’ve seen where customers have come back to me and said, You know what? Everything looks so seamless and looks so, uh, you know, so nice and shiny and so quick and easy in the demo. But that’s not the product we ended up with. The biggest reason for that is, in my opinion at least, is how you come into that demo. How prepared you are. If you simply just walk in, let the sales rep do their thing and just, you know, as you and just wait to be wowed and impressed. You’re very likely going to end up disappointed so that one of the first points that I really bring up in, uh, my talk was to present some use cases to really think to yourself, what are the four or five things that we must have on Day one when our new system is live, as well as one of those four or five things that are working terrible right now in our current system, those are the areas we want to focus on, Let’s draft up our use cases. Let’s get very specific examples, not yes or no questions and provide that to the sales rep account executive ahead of time. That way, you’re not really focusing on the fluff. You’re not focusing on the bells and whistles. You can watch that stuff on YouTube. You’re really focusing on those areas that are going to be critical for you to be successful.

[00:06:24.34] spk_1:
Okay, Anything else we should be thinking about as a team before we before we view this extravaganza?

[00:06:30.66] spk_2:
Yeah, definitely the prep that you do up front. You know, I kind of alluded to this that you doing your homework? A lot of these products that you see out there, especially in a non profit technology side. There’s demos available. There’s demos available on their websites. You know, maybe you need to download a white paper. There’s demos available on YouTube. Eso, you know, watch those demos do your homework. Don’t just wait to the demo. You know the facilitated demo before you see it for the first time. That way, you can really understand what the potential pain points are again. Also, there’s many different organizations out there that do independent studies on the various donor management C r M systems eso. So that might be a place as well as other other applications. So do your homework. Understand where the weaknesses are already a prom. That way you can focus on their those areas in the demo. So the team or the pattern I really focus on here is move away from the demo just being a presentation and really try to make it a working session with your sales rep. Eso you’re really working through this scenarios and not just sitting back and watching can presentation.

[00:07:29.58] spk_1:
Okay, Yeah, you’re focusing them on on where your pain points are, what your must haves are and not just getting a generic description of, you know, a lot of times, you know, if you if you end up meeting this, then we have this component and and we have this feature to you might not end up needing it, but I just want to acquaint you with it. You know, that that’s really irrelevant.

[00:07:52.71] spk_2:
That’s right. And so those were some things that you could ahead of time, you know, even during the demonstration itself, there’s certain things that you want to look out for, You know, again, the yes, no questions. Do you have all into your management? Do you have events management? Do you have playing? Giving the answer is always gonna be yes to a Yes. No question. We had a If you can always repurpose, you know, certain functionality to make it fit A particular scenario. So I try to encourage your my profit, remind my customers that’s gonna move away from that and really give a specific example. Hey, you know, I do a lot of events and I sit at the desk during our gala and I need to register people when they come in the door and also have the ability with the check and check out process to enter a new attendee. Show me how I can do that and that that could be one of the use cases that you present ahead of time. So again it gives it gives very specific things. Another thing that I suggest is is be careful about those words of integration and compatibility. Um, because everyone is integrated, you know, especially I deal a lot with Salesforce and everyone claims to be integrated with Salesforce but that integration it could mean anything. It could be a plug and play out that takes 10 minutes. Or it could be, Ah, it could be a separate third party solution that you need with 1/3 party consultant to integrate it. So all that falls within the category of integration. So you want to be very clear when someone says, Oh, yeah, we’re compatible with such and such or were integrated with such and such. What exactly does that mean? And how does it look?

[00:09:57.04] spk_1:
Okay, that’s interesting. Yeah, I don’t think most people know that. They just they say, Oh, it’s integrated. Okay, that’s awesome. It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As Things are moving fast. The Senate passed a bill on paycheck protection program loans that extends the covered period from eight weeks to 24 weeks. You need a place to keep up with everything that we’re being hit with. Financially wegner-C.P.As dot com Quick resource is and blawg now back to don’t get played by the product demo. I should have given you a chance to shout out what? What’s the work at 1/10 Consulting.

[00:10:27.99] spk_2:
Oh, well, we, uh we do everything from strategy we work exclusively with nonprofits. We do strategy, work. We do implementation of C R M. Systems all the way through change management and user adoption. So we take a slightly different approach in the sense that we, uh it’s not really just the technology that we focus on. We really try to make sure that the people, the process, the strategy, the data, everything is aligned. Because if one of those pieces were missing, you’re not you’re not gonna be happy. So as a consulting practice, we try to make sure all those are aligned to help help move missions

[00:10:35.81] spk_1:
forward. What’s the significance of the name 1/10 Consulting. What is that? Does that mean?

[00:10:55.56] spk_2:
Yeah. You know, in the six faith, there’s a, ah principle or a concept of thus fund we call it, which is giving 10% of your your income, your time to the community into the greater good. Um, and in my early years of starting this practice, I worked with a lot of faith based communities. Um, and as I was implementing donor management systems for churches and synagogues and masa, I started noticing that this concept of 10% or 1/10 of your income. Er, and giving back was was such a central component of every one of these faiths and every one of these faith traditions. Eso to me, it was it was nice. It was this unifying principle. And and so that’s kind of where 1/10 comes from that the 1/10 really represents this this treasure. And, you know, I’m hoping 1/10 consulting helps helps that 10% really realize its full

[00:11:36.74] spk_1:
potential. So before you recognize this commonality, what were you, Reuben sing Consulting? What were you before you were 1/10

[00:11:43.75] spk_2:
before 1/10 I have worked for, um I worked at a non profit sector, but also in CR ems for over 20 years. So prior to 1/10 I was with an organization called Round Corner. In their non profit technology sector. I was vice president of digital transformation, and, um, and they actually have been acquired by Salesforce. But that was the time I realized that I don’t want to be tied into one particular product and really want to be able to look at things more holistically that way. Started.

[00:12:14.94] spk_1:
Um, let’s go back to ah to advice you um, you know, part of what you ah talk about is tough questions to ask way at that stage, or is there more you want to say leading up to it? But you you, uh you take it where where we need to go,

[00:13:44.97] spk_2:
right? Right. Yeah, I think you know, as far as the tough questions that we covered, some of them the integration, the interoperability. Okay, I think another thing we talked about with terms, not just the yes, no questions. Also, when it comes to things like, Do you handle soft credits? Do you handle plan giving? Do you handle solicitors again? The questions the answers will always be Yes. And although, you know, matching gifts, workplace gifts, these these air something that all non profits due in some way, shape or form. But you want to make sure that your impression and your understanding of it is the same as the sales reps because I’ve noticed a lot of gaps in that area as well. Another couple tougher questions that I always like to get into is asking this question of what exactly is has been upgraded in this demo. So I’ve just seen it Time and time again, tony. Where, uh, you know, again, you’ve seen this great demo. And then when you come back and say, Well, these air, like, archaic looking Web forms can’t show these to my donors, and then they come back and say, Oh, yeah, you just need to upgrade to the next forms package or, oh, if you’re going to send more than three emails, you have to say you have to upgrade to the next email package. So the demo has been filled with all these add ons and upgrades, but you’re kind of getting something different, you know?

[00:13:47.33] spk_1:
And so you bought that you bought the base model, but you test drove the, uh, the SLX expanded, uh, 16 cylinder version.

[00:14:01.74] spk_2:
Exactly. And I often, for example, a few years back I was, uh, family. We were purchasing home, and we wanted a new home, and we were looking all these model houses, and I know some people really like to see these beautifully furnished homes with great interior decorating. And I was just like, Can I just see an empty house? You know, I want to know what I’m getting. I get thrown off, I get distracted by all this. You know, Do you have some sort of, you know, house that’s being built, That that’s the same model that I could look at. And so I kind of looked at demos the same way. Do as little as possible, you know, and And don’t customise too much. Don’t add on anything. I want to see how close my use cases worked with your out of the box product that way. Ah, comparing apples down.

[00:14:39.06] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. So you can actually ask them to demo a specific version that you’d be most likely to be buying without whatever add ons, plug ins, upgrades, et cetera.

[00:14:51.31] spk_2:
Yeah, and it really should be easier for the sales rep to to prepare for that on and really have them. You’re focusing less on customizing and focus more on the use cases that you provided them. Okay. And I will tell you, you know, this not all sales reps or account executives will be receptive to this. And some of them might say, Oh, this is too much work. Or where they might look at your use cases and say we’re clearly not a fit, which is not a bad thing either. At least you know upfront. Yeah. The sales reps that I think are really good. And some of the ones I’ve worked with they would love something like this. They would love the client toe, give them a list of use cases. Give him some very specifics That way, they’re not guessing either. Ah, and the session is going to be a lot more fruitful when both sides

[00:15:34.44] spk_1:
are prepared. OK, OK, Reuben Weaken, spend some more time together. If you have more suggestions,

[00:16:04.52] spk_2:
you know, I’d say that there’s there’s probably one other suggestion that I would, uh I alluded to this at the very beginning on I think it kind of sums up. The whole point is when I talked Teoh sales reps and want to prepare them for a demo, I even tell them up front. You know, we’re not really interested in the demo. We’d like to have a working session and just even using that term, it changes the paradigm, and it really changes the relationship. They’re between yourself and the vendor. Eso even just something as simple as recommending that we’re calling it something different. The sales right will come in a little bit more prepared to work with you and really try to work through those use cases. Eso the more you can move away from the canned, you know, bells and whistles, presentation and Maurin toe a meaningful conversation on your use cases, the more happier you’re going to be with the end product,

[00:16:38.54] spk_1:
okay? And I guess if you get any if you get any pushback or objection from the from the sales rep about converting this from a demo to a work session, that’s a red flag about whether whether you want to purchase their ah, against purchasing their their product and continuing with the conversation with them.

[00:16:47.75] spk_2:
Absolutely. I mean, you know, we’re talking about on profits here, and, you know, obviously funds are always limited, and you want to make sure that you’re making smart decisions on where that money goes. So, like I said, a nonprofit sector, that’s the sales reps I’ve worked with their usually very much in line with this thinking. Um, so so but yeah, if there was any objection, that’s definitely red flag. In my opinion,

[00:17:10.04] spk_1:
you have ah, you have a resource at the on the 1/10 consulting site

[00:17:17.24] spk_2:
Yeah, yeah, you know, and we’re really bummed about that. The conference, the NTC conference being canceled. So what we did is we went ahead and I recorded the session that I had planned to deliver at the NTC conference, Um and ah ah. And have uploaded that recording to our website www 0.1 temp that consulting. Um, it’s there in the blog’s section. And you know, I would also suggest that that blawg section does have a lot of other resource is, you know, if you’re interested in grant management and what products are out there or if you’re trying to figure out what might be the CIA RAM solution for you, we have several articles free webinars on other insights that folks are welcome to take a look at

[00:17:56.84] spk_1:
Okay. And the full the full conference. Ah, this presentation is there. That’s correct. Okay, is 1/10 dot consulting. That’s correct. Oh, I didn’t know. I didn’t know dot Consulting is a, uh Is it available for those called extension?

[00:18:17.13] spk_2:
Yeah, it’s available. Signed, signed up for a couple years ago and definitely opens things up. T create the name that you want, so yeah, www 0.1 temps that consulting, and we’ll take you right

[00:18:29.14] spk_1:
there. Okay, It’s in the block block section. That’s right. All right. Ruben saying he’s CEO. 1/10 Consulting, Um, in Maryland, outside Baltimore. Rubin. Thank you very much. Thanks very much for sharing.

[00:18:35.14] spk_2:
Thank you, Tony. I appreciate your time.

[00:21:12.05] spk_1:
My pleasure. Thanks. And thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software, Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands how you work. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now time for tony Stick to George Floyd. It’s a recorded murder. I am skeptically optimistic that the United States will deal this time with its institutional racism. If we’re gonna have a chance that that we each need to be the change we want to see, there’s no waiting for political leadership. They’ll get dragged along after we the people, start the conversation at our level. That needs to happen and I would like to help. Next week, non profit radio will have a special episode devoted to how to start the racism and white privilege conversation in your office. It’s a long journey. It begins with a single step. We each need to be the change we want to see. Start with me next week. That is tony Steak, too. Now, time for Facebook fundraising data. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020. Non profit technology conference with me now, our Nick Byrne, Julia Campbell and Maureen will be off. Nick is founder and CEO at Give Panel. Julia Campbell is author, speaker and teacher at J. Campbell Social Marketing And Maureen will be off is digital strategist and technology coach with practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Welcome, everybody. Nick. Julie. Morning. Welcome. Welcome, city pleasure. I’m glad we’re able to work this out. I know you’re each well and safe on. I’m glad to hear that. Everybody’s okay. Um, we’re talking about Facebook. Fundraising your 2020 topic, uh, for NTC is best kept secrets the getting and using Facebook fundraiser data. Julia, you’ve been talking about Facebook fundraising for so long we had you on?

[00:21:16.09] spk_3:
Yeah, last two years ago

[00:21:18.57] spk_1:
Was the the last year or two years ago. Um, you’re gonna have toe. You have to find a new gig.

[00:21:23.62] spk_3:
I know. Well keeps changing

[00:21:26.41] spk_1:
this this one trick things.

[00:21:27.84] spk_3:
And now I found neck. You’re like my Facebook fundraising soulmate, so

[00:21:32.14] spk_1:
that’s right. So I’m going to start with you, Since I know for a fact you’ve been doing this thinking about Facebook fundraising a long time. Um, what the problem is, Facebook doesn’t share. Right? We lamented the last year or two years ago, you and I.

[00:22:42.13] spk_3:
Yes. So I Yeah, it was in New Orleans, Um, 18 ntc with and I did the first session on Facebook fundraising tools, and it was when they had just come out and I had mental health, America and the Polaris Project with me because they were kind of just slaying it with Facebook funders and raising thousands of dollars. Like Nick likes to talk about that magic money that comes down when you turn on the tools. But the number one this was two years, the number one quandary and problem, an issue that nonprofits had and still have is this issue that you don’t get the information of the contact information for everyone that makes a donation, even if it’s not to you? Necessarily. It’s to someone else’s birthday fundraiser. So our entire philosophy and the three of us are all on the same page, and we talked about it. We have talked about this a lot is that you’re missing the point. If you focus on the data that Facebook gives you, there are ways to get the data and the content information for your fund raisers. The people that are raising money for you that are stepping up and saying I want to donate my birthday. This is a cause that I really care about right now. Everyone come together, raise money. Those are the people you need to focus on. And I think Nick made an amazing amazing point earlier this morning when we were talking. I love that point where you don’t want to clog up your Sierra Room in your database with the data of all these donors who don’t even want to hear from you anyway because they haven’t elected to hear from you. They didn’t really box

[00:23:27.81] spk_1:
their connection here, person they’re connected. The person who is running the fundraiser?

[00:23:32.51] spk_3:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So get around this. We need to get over this hump. And Nick can also talk a lot more about that. And Maureen can

[00:23:40.82] spk_1:
too. All right, So you don’t want to focus on what we don’t have.

[00:23:44.34] spk_3:
Yes, there is a

[00:23:44.95] spk_1:
possibility that they might be, uh, uh, interested in engaging with you and your cause.

[00:23:51.81] spk_3:

[00:23:52.45] spk_1:
But you don’t want you don’t focus on that possibility. Want focus on what we do have is that

[00:24:31.94] spk_3:
Well, yeah, there’s kind of two ways to look at it. One is Do you want un discretionary? Do you want to, um, totally on un discretionary funds? Do you want free funds that you could do with whatever you want to do with coming in? No one telling you what to do? What? They’re not earmarked. Do you want that kind of money? Do you want exposure to a brand new audience? Or do you want to focus on the fact that I gave $5 to Maureen’s birthday fundraiser But I only gave because of Maureen? I’m not really interested in animal rescue yourself. Hung up on getting my email, but we got to stop with that.

[00:24:33.41] spk_1:
OK? All right. Well, Nick, Julie obviously teed you off. So why don’t you give us your overview?

[00:24:39.94] spk_5:
Yeah, I mean, I think, like like Facebook. Call it social fund raising. And I think that’s the key, right? It’s social. It’s it’s enabling people who love your cause who want, like, support your mission to go out and raise money from their family and friends. And if if organizations and nonprofits just treat it like direct mail or something, right, it’s not social, and so you have to you have to go with it. And so there’s this myth that, you know you can’t get the data. Yeah, Facebook don’t share the data. That is true. But actually, we’ve pion eight near two ways that you can get a lot of fundraiser data. You’re not going to get the data of every single donor that gives to every every single fundraiser on Or do you want to clog your sierra em up with that information, right? Because they’re not gonna convert on email or direct mail like less than 2% of them opt in. When Facebook asked them to hear from you. And that’s a good sign that they gave to your t their friend or their family or their loved one. Not Teoh your cause. So go with the flow. Don’t fight Facebook. Use it for a CE, much as we can possibly use it for. It’s a fantastic fundraising

[00:25:50.14] spk_1:
tour. Okay, Nick, what’s out in your background? You have You have a projector on your ceiling projecting that onto the wall.

[00:25:56.43] spk_5:
So that’s Michael. Jordan told me to read the quote. It’s a bit it needs to be bigger, right? But Michael Jordan quite. It’s a Michael Jordan quote. So is Michael Jordan

[00:26:05.70] spk_1:
Reed. It go ahead.

[00:26:20.05] spk_5:
It says, Uh, I’ve missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I’ve lost almost 300 games 26 times. I’ve been trusted to take the winning shot and missed. I failed over and over again in my life, and that is why I succeed.

[00:26:25.02] spk_3:
I love that

[00:26:26.76] spk_1:
additional. Okay. Is that that’s not a projection from your ceiling onto the wall, is it?

[00:26:31.26] spk_5:
That is one of those decals things.

[00:26:34.15] spk_1:
Okay? You’re very, very high tech. If you’ve got one

[00:26:38.12] spk_5:
E say it’s like a hologram,

[00:26:41.29] spk_1:
right? Exactly like It’s a

[00:26:42.77] spk_5:
commercial reality. It’s argument is not really there.

[00:26:50.94] spk_1:
It’s one of those lights that shines in front of a restaurant on the sidewalk. Where is it coming from?

[00:26:52.25] spk_5:
A car, guys, it’s,

[00:26:53.94] spk_1:
uh uh OK, Marine. You want toe? Er, why don’t you add to the overview and get helping us get started?

[00:28:30.69] spk_4:
Sure. I think that, you know, part of what Julia and Nick are alluding to has been around for a long time when you think about peer to peer fundraising generally. So I’ve helped a lot of people over the years with either live physical events, that’s a five K or a bike or walk or D i y peer to peer fundraising events and organizations, generally speaking, do not do anything with the donors who give to those team captains or those participants. The data does go into their C. R M because somebody’s made an online gift and is part of that text stuff. The date is getting sucked over, but they’re not trying to convert those people. But for some reason, people feel very frustrated about the inability to get the $5 donor into their database and is Nick and Julie have both said. You’re paying attention to the glass half empty. You need to shift your mind, pay attention to the information you can get and cultivate those relationships. Um, we and fundraising think a lot about the lifetime value of a donor, right? It’s just like it’s ingrained. And whether you were formally trained in the stuff or not is all around us about who’s valuable, Who do I spend time on and who I don’t. And Facebook turns that like a 45 degree angle. And it can be awful hard to get your leadership on board with ignoring donors just really what we’re telling people to dio. Those aren’t the folks that you should be paying attention to When it comes to Facebook fundraising, it’s the fund raisers themselves, not the people who were actually giving. And that could take some conversation at your board level or your your executive or sea level Um, inside your award that it is. It is not the way it’s always been, and you have to be cool with that and give

[00:29:00.80] spk_1:
it a try.

[00:29:01.75] spk_5:
Can I just jump in, jump in and just come off the back of the no Yeah, yeah. On anarchism. So polite, right?

[00:29:21.14] spk_1:
No. Yes. You’re not sure what I was? What I was going to say, Maureen, before I was interrupted was e. I could see how clearly. Yes. Take a drink, Nick, please. I can see why your company’s practical wisdom.

[00:29:23.34] spk_4:
Yeah, like

[00:29:30.74] spk_1:
your wisdom for non profit accidental techies. All right. And I saw you checkered with Donald Techie. Okay, so So we’ve gotta persuade our vice president, CEO and board, Maybe. I mean, the board may not be involved in what we do. Ah, fundraising campaign on Facebook or not. But at

[00:29:43.83] spk_4:
least these leaders, you

[00:30:05.28] spk_1:
persuade some people in the chain that we should be focusing on the five people a year who hosted us hosted a fundraiser for us on Facebook. Or it might be more than five, But but not not the 500 who gave at the rate of 100 each to to those to those five fundraisers. Ones who created the campaign’s not the wardens who donated to the campaigns.

[00:30:32.38] spk_4:
Okay, wait a few rooms about Facebook. You know, sometimes people have negative feelings about Facebook and that can you know, dr their business practices and where they’re choosing to invest their time. And what we’re what we’re here to say is Evaluate, evaluate, test it. Is it gonna work for your organization or not? And

[00:30:32.57] spk_1:

[00:30:32.68] spk_4:
probably is. So, you know, get ready. Get ready for that

[00:31:05.04] spk_1:
time for our last break. Turn to communications. They’re former journalists. So you get help getting your message through it is possible to be heard through the headlines. They know exactly what to do to build relationships with the journalists that matter to you. They are themselves former journalists. Those great relationships will lead to great coverage. They’re a turn hyphen to not CEO. We’ve got but loads more time for Facebook fundraising data. Nick you not because you interrupted, but Julia said earlier that you had some tools that we can applying here. You want to acquaint us with something?

[00:32:40.83] spk_5:
Yes. So my background as a digital fundraiser, we got into this early when client we saw the problems of the clients were having with data on. We started doing everything like, manually with spreadsheets and reaching out to fund raisers one of their time on Facebook, that kind of thing. And we just decided Look, this is crazy. We’ve got to build a tool to help that fast forward 18 months later, and we’ve got over 100 nonprofits in seven countries using give panel on What we do is we basically help organizations take the power back from Facebook? That’s kind of what we do. Like Facebook are getting a lot out of this, and that’s great. They’ve given us free tools. It’s free to use no platform cost, no technology costs, nor even any credit card fees, Right? So Facebook have given us something great. We know that they benefit, but our job is to leverage that tool as much as we can get a gun and leverage it for their advertising model on to keep them employees happy and like it’s a great thing that they’ve given the world. But it’s upto organizations toe to take the power back. And so we do that by helping how organizations Steward Steward their fundraisers get the data from their fundraisers on do you know, see graphs and dashboards and all that kind of thing. So it’s kind of the missing tool that Facebook haven’t given Facebook’s base books. No interested, necessarily in kind of building the best tool for charities, their customers, the end user on. So they’ll always be a gap where people like me will want to service the non profit. Right? OK, that’s what we

[00:32:43.61] spk_1:
do. Okay. Thank you. Julia party. Your description says how to identify who launches Facebook fundraisers. Is that Is that something that’s difficult to dio Julia?

[00:32:54.64] spk_3:
Yes. So Facebook is not going Teoh tell you when someone launches fundraiser and they’re not going to tell you who has necessarily launched a fundraiser. So you do have If you’re small organization and you’re not using a tech tool like give panel to help you, then you are going to have to figure that out. You’re gonna have to constantly be looking at your fundraisers and constantly trying to figure out and identify where the campaigns are. But that is absolutely crucial even for a small organization to dio to thank people especially, and give them the tools to sort of have already in your maybe on your website toe have a little bit of a tool kit. Maybe it’s a one page document with tips for fundraisers to really elevate their campaigns because we know nobody was born a fundraiser. No one’s born knowing how to fundraise. And if someone’s trying to raise $200 for their birthday, it’s a win win. If they can succeed because they’re gonna feel great and it’s going to be an amazing legacy for them and they’re gonna be really excited, and then you’re gonna build that relationship with them because you helped them. So, yeah,

[00:34:06.96] spk_1:
so how do we identify if we don’t have a tool? How right? Go to Facebook O. R. And find who’s doing this for us.

[00:34:14.09] spk_3:
I’ll turn that over to net cause there’s a couple ways.

[00:34:25.07] spk_5:
Okay? Yes. So Facebook. When you signed up to Facebook giving tools, you get a tab on your fate on your non profit Facebook page that says fundraisers. So you can see fund raisers that have raised more than $50 in that list. The problem is that you over about 70 60 to 70% of your fund raisers don’t reach $50. There’s a lot. There’s a lot of big fundraisers, but there’s also a lot, a lot of small fundraisers.

[00:34:41.89] spk_1:
All right, so you’re not going to capture the smallest ones. You won’t be able to say thank you to them. Maureen, what do we do? Once we have identified the people who have have launched these fundraisers for US

[00:35:35.06] spk_4:
micro appreciation, I’ll use next term. You have to find small ways to recognize and appreciate the effort that these fundraisers air making, no matter how much or how little they’re raising for you. Facebook is the great equalizer in that everybody sort of knows what everybody is doing, and your fundraisers expect it. They expect you to be paying attention. They expect you to thank them and acknowledge them all within the tool, you know? Yeah, you certainly want to try to get enough information and their permission to move them over onto your email list so that they can learn more about your organization. They can be more empowered to fundraise more for your get otherwise involved, but, you know, sending a message. Knicks got a great program where people send a tiny little gift like a like a pin, a piece of swag that in your non profit they have sitting around It’s pennies. Teoh access it a diner to to mail it out, and then that person has a tangible thing that is reinforcing that relationship. They knew that I did it. They took a minute to say thank you. They actually gave me a thank you gift. And so every time an opportunity comes up in my personal life for me to start a fundraiser, I’m gonna go back to that organization and show my loyalty.

[00:36:20.11] spk_1:
And what can we do to encourage these fundraisers, whether it’s birthday or or whatever, How can we? How can we be promoting that idea to To our constituents?

[00:36:34.41] spk_4:
You do have to promote it. Radio promoting Julia, which I

[00:37:28.28] spk_3:
guess you have to be proactive rather than reactive. So sure, setting up the tools and registering for Facebook payments. Make sure you’re you know I’s are dotted and your T’s are crossed and your registered and you have all the tools set up. But it’s just like with the Donate button on websites 5 10 years ago. If you just put it on your website and don’t tell anybody, then you can’t just expect the donations to rolling as much as they could. You really have to be proactive. So advertising it, telling people this is an exciting new way. It’s effective. It’s safe Facebook doesn’t take any fees, kind of dispelling the myths and misconceptions out there around Facebook fundraising showing people examples of other fundraisers that have occurred, giving them the tools like, um, giving them photos, giving them videos, giving them text, explaining to them here the top five things to do when you start a Facebook fundraiser. Here’s what to do when you hit your halfway point but actively encouraging people. I’ve seen it in a welcome email sequence. Actually. Ah, lot of nonprofits. When you sign up for the email issue, make a donation. I’ve seen them encourage you in their little sequence. Say, to make a bigger impact. Would you be interested in setting up a Facebook funders or force? Put something on your website? Put something in your email signature. Do a Facebook live. You know, you really have to look at it as all hands on deck promoting this.

[00:38:06.00] spk_1:
What do we know about the characteristics of people who are most likely to do this? Are they necessarily the under 30?

[00:38:13.12] spk_3:
I don’t know, Nick. You might know that we

[00:38:15.41] spk_5:
we don’t have any demographic information. What we do have is that its acquisition, actually, this isn’t for something for your existing supporters donors as much as it is people who are getting noted, verified a week before on Facebook, a week before their birthday. Hey, do you want to set up a birthday fundraiser? And then they’re searching for breast cancer? They’re searching for arthritis. They’re searching for dunk cap, you know, whatever they want, their passion about what they want to give to. So 90% of our client data From what the studies we’ve done our new to the organization. They’re not people that were already on the database. So this is acquisition and its huge. We have clients that have 30,000 fundraisers a month. I mean, when you get it right, it’s by big.

[00:39:05.70] spk_1:
I’m surprised to hear I’m surprised to hear its acquisition. I didn’t expect that at all. We’re committed donors who thought of you on their birthday. You’re saying they’re thinking that their birthday is coming up and they’re looking for a cause?

[00:39:39.52] spk_5:
Yeah, that’s like So my my wife lost unfortunate, lost her mom to breast cancer two years ago. She wasn’t she just fighting breast cancer and shows the 1st 1 that came up on what we’re seeing is as more nonprofits get on Facebook, the slice of the pie is getting thinner and thinner, so you need to get in early is growing, but so is the adoption. And so organizations that go on it two years ago did very well. It’s not the birthday. Fundraising is slowing down is the fact that actually more organizations are jumping on because they’re seeing how successful it is.

[00:39:46.57] spk_1:
Okay, we’re gonna start to wrap up, Julia. I’m gonna give you ah, a shot and then never go to Maureen for the final. What do you want to leave people with? Maybe how to get started. Whatever final thoughts.

[00:39:59.52] spk_3:
Well, if you’ve not started yet, go to social good dot FB dot com and see if you’re eligible to register. It’s not open in every single country yet. And some tools air open in some countries and some are not. But the very the second thing I would dio is understand that this can Onley augment and enhance what you’re doing. What we’re saying is not to completely replace everything that’s working. I’m not saying Onley to face with fundraising and throw out your direct mail, which is what people are hearing. I think sometimes when I talk, I’m not saying that. I’m saying this is gonna enhance. And like Nick just said, it’s a way to acquire new people that are passionate. That could be even more passionate about your cause. Because everyone’s already on Facebook all day already. You know, there’s millions. Billions of people on Facebook is the leverage, the tools and do the best you can with what you have.

[00:40:55.84] spk_1:
Okay, Marine, would you wrap us up, please?

[00:41:31.71] spk_4:
Sure. Um I would say, Don’t let the perfect get in the way of the good, you know we can. We’re very terrible about snow. Sometimes in non profit culture. We take a really long time to think about things. A really long time to change gears. This is a time for action. Even if the world wasn’t dealing with the pandemic, it is a time for action for nonprofits. Try something having experimental frame. Get buying from your leadership, but try it. Try it. You really have nothing to lose. How’s that?

[00:41:38.24] spk_1:
Would an impassioned plea Yes, that Z from from Kit God, that’s Marine will be off digital strategist and technology coach with practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Also, Julia Campbell, The

[00:41:47.02] spk_3:
Penis of your voice over Any time you talk

[00:41:49.93] spk_1:
work what it is. The company right?

[00:41:52.11] spk_4:
It absolutely is

[00:42:10.80] spk_1:
way. Non profit. Accidental techies. Julia Campbell, author, speaker, trainer, author, speaker, teacher and trainer. Well, teachers Train right, Jay Campbell, social marketing and Nick Byrne with Any at the end. Founder and CEO Give Panel Marine and Julia and Nick. Thank you so much for sharing with us.

[00:42:15.43] spk_3:
Thanks, tony. Thank you.

[00:43:41.52] spk_1:
Stay Well, I’m glad we were able to work this out and thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of the virtual 20 NTC workshops sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us next week. The special episode on the racism conversation and more from 20 NTC on the regularly scheduled show. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be sent. You find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and my turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Ah, creative producer is clear. Meyer off Sam Liebowitz Managed stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our rep guy. This music is by Scots You with me next week for not profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for August 30, 2019: Online Major Giving & Online Adversity

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My Guests:

Adam London, Carrie Rice & Anneliese Davis: Online Major Giving
Do you have web forms for your major donors? Our 19NTC panel hashes the pros and cons of automating major giving and—if you decide to expand to online—how to work around the obstacles. They’re Adam London at Project Donor Love; Carrie Rice from Carrie Rice Consulting; and Anneliese Davis with Rahab’s Sisters.

Burt Edwards: Online Adversity
How do you maintain personal and organizational values when people are screaming at you in the social networks? Burt Edwards, our panel of one from 19NTC, shares strategies and systems that keep your staff, supporters and social ambassadors safe when they speak out online. He’s from Friends of the Columbia Gorge.

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Transcript for 455_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190830.mp3 Processed on: 2019-08-31T18:57:44.018Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…08…455_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190830.mp3.155990547.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/08/455_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190830.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of Psycho in Drusus if you hard into me with the idea that you missed today’s show online. Major e-giving. Do you have Web forms for your major donors? Are 19 ntcdinosaur. Hash is the pros and cons of automating major e-giving. And if you decide to expand toe online, how to work around the obstacles there? Adam London at Project Donors of Carry Rice From Carrie Rice Consulting and Annalise Ed Davis with Ray ABS Sisters and online Adversity How do you maintain personal and organizational values when people are screaming at you in the social networks? Bert Edwards, Our panel of one from 19 NTC shares strategies and systems that keep your staff supporters and social ambassador’s safe when they speak out online. He’s from Friends of the Columbia Gorge on Tony’s take to your board’s role in planned e-giving responsive by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here’s online Major e-giving Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. You know what that is? It’s a 2019 non-profit technology conference. You know that we’re coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and at all of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. What you don’t know is that my panel now is seated with me. And they are Adam London carry Rice and Anna Lisa Davis. Adam is founder of Project Donors of Carrie is non-profit consultant carry Rice consulting and Anna Lisa Davis is the executive director at Rehabs Sisters. Welcome altum each of you. Thank you, Tony. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. Your session topic was 21st century major e-giving creating an effective online major gift program. I thought this was interesting. I don’t I don’t see much about online major e-giving program. So that’s what caught my attention to this. Why I invited you to come. I like to start down The end is the person down? The end sometimes feels at least at least part of this, although they’re not. But sometimes they feel so we’re gonna start with Lisa. Um What? What? What are the possibilities? Just like headline over a big, big picture. What are the possibilities here online, Major e-giving. Well, we’re a very small organization that didn’t really start doing fund-raising in an intentional way until I came on board is the first staff member a year and 1/2 ago. And so, working with carry on, Adam, they’ve helped us think creatively about how we engage people online without having a huge development staff or a lot of board members who could go out and talk to Major Gibbs. Okay, So you moved it online or you didn’t move it online. You started it online. We started a major give program is native online. It is okay. And you work with Carrie? I did. Yeah, we did. We do. Absolutely. She did a wonderful board treat for us last year, and then it grew into this project. No surprise, Carrie, uh is this a trend that I’m not aware of. Are you seeing Maur? We arika program. We’re starting. We’re starting the trend. Yes, we It was more like an area where we saw the But there was a hole out there, which was that there are people who, for example, in an in person ask if you let’s say you’ve done all the research, you’re ready to make the ask for 25 $6100 whatever it is that if you then get a pledge from them, you have to go home, get in envoys, right attack, get a return envelope and so forth and do all these things to make the donation. Whereas in this way someone says, Yeah, that’s it. $100,000 sounds great. And you say, Well, if you want, you can fill out this form right now and get your frequent flyer miles right now on your black card, you know, and boom, it’s done. So that was something that people started saying, like, That’s a really good idea on Ben also being able to directly using direct mail or using email to be able to contact people who are major donors in Anna Lisa’s case, they’re just now figuring out what a major donor is and what their capacity is, but figuring out what that number is and then being able to direct people to a different form. It’s not a poor form and a rich form, it’s just an unlisted folk. Are you directly? Yeah. We’ll get to the details. Okay. Adam. What? What? What’s? Ah, Product dahna loves rolling This You have online Major e-giving Also Sure. So project dahna Love is an agency in San Francisco. We design and build custom websites on reporting a Pardon me. Oh, you’re okay. You’re not a non-profit. I’m not a non-profit. Okay? Project dahna love sounds like Okay, Okay. I’m sorry I interrupted you expect so? Yes. We built we design and build custom websites and reporting tools for non-profits. We have a particular interest in donation forms in optimizing and customizing donation forms to make them to get maximum conversions out of them. And we also interested in bringing in modern U ex practices and also leveraging the organization’s data to really improve their fund-raising online. Okay. Okay. Um, so what’s the, uh Well, I guess including for rehab sisters this is This is the beginning of your major gift program. You’ve just been doing fund-raising, you said, for a year and 1/2 for him for amore mature organization that’s got a well established major gift program. And let’s say you know our listeners, Aaron Small, a midsize shop. So let’s say they define a major gift as $10,000. Okay, And of course, they have giving $1000 level. There’s a society for that, etcetera. But they define for their fund-raising major gifts $10,000. Carrie. What would what would be the advantage to looking at an online major gift program for them? What would that look like? Well, the first thing is, we have very passionate and strong views about recurring gifts. So if you were someone who considered yourself prepared to give $10,000 is a one time gift, there’s a pretty good chance that you’re willing to give $1000 a month. So I just raised your gift 20% and now you can split it up into $1000 a month, which fits into your monthly budget. So it’s kind of ah, different way of thinking, but it’s just right right there off the top. By encouraging the recurring gifts on the major for on the form it gives people the opportunity to actually give us give someone a little more. So what’s new then, is that we’re offering someone the opportunity. Thio make a $10,000 gift online. And then I understand we’re trying to convert them to Stainer, but we’re we’re offering higher levels of giving online. That’s crap. In the exhibition, which case over 5000 you’d have to send a check or transfer stock. Exactly. Exactly. And in the case of an organization like rehab sisters, they use a fairly small, less robust donation platform. And so we kind of had to pick. Are we going to encourage one time gifts or we gonna encourage recurring gifts? And so, in this particular case, we chose Onley monthly gifts and to make it on Lee a major gift sustainers level period because that was the best thing to do with the software that was available in this situation. And Elisa, What kind of outcomes are you seeing? What kind of interest are you? Feedback getting any feedback from donors? Well, we’ve just started rolling it out with our supporters. We have been Typically, we’ve had very low, you know, like a $15.20 dollar a month sustainers kind of program on. And now we’re being able to go out and ask folks for us, Would you do $100 a month? We could just click right here and get you signed up. And people like the convenience of being able to do it right then and there. Um, and it just it kind of speed the process along because again, being a one person shop for everything I am, the less follow-up I have two. D’oh! After that particular meeting, the better, much, much better. It’s time for a break. Regular C P A. Is they have a new wagon are on September 10th. Leaders Guide to Understanding, not for profit financials, CEOs, board members, directors You don’t need accounting details that’s not necessary for you, but a realistic and basic understanding of financial statements will boost your decision making. You’ll find it at weinger cps dot com. Quick resource is and upcoming events Now back to online major giving. Adam What? What is your advice around streamlining this process that we’re talking about. Carrie was talking about trying to get recurring gifts. That’s definitely part of it. But the biggest thing probably is segmentation, actually, with all fund-raising segmentation critical, but particularly when we’re talking about major gifts online. Firstly, we want the major gift for more forms to be something that is hidden from the main navigation. So this is something that you are only directing your major givers to via email or doing it in person or by direct mail. Okay, And then what is that? Well, because the first reason is that there’s no very graceful way to have a donation landing page that says, You know, big money Year little money here, Onda. Also, if you have a single donation form that has both very large suggested mounts in the thousands of dollars on more typical 29 2150 that’s a confusing situation for anyone who lands. There is a small donor. Those large amounts might make you think, Well, that’s my $50 gift. Even worth it if they’re asking for $5000 okay. And if you’re at the high end right, you’re feeling like, why am I? Why am I on the same page is the $25 Don’t exactly. Yes. Do they really need this? 5000 different? There are $25. So putting them, making sure that these two populations get into donation forms that are targeted at the amount you expect them to make you see. And then you can also have multiple donation forms. There’s another great aspect off doing this online because if you’re able to segment your don’t know major donors more finally into high high level donors, high mid owners, et cetera, then you can have separate donation forms for each of these segments or separate donation forms for campaign or things like that. Okay, okay, um, from your session description, you you talked about using Is it events? As an in person asked Carry, you were describing? The person asked earlier. What about that events? How does that look? Like so at an event? So let’s say you’re having a reasonably priced, for example, like a gala or something, that 100 t it’s $10 a ticket, Um, and then you have ipads set up around the room and, oh, are you have interns or assistants who are able to go around from table to table and say, You know, instead of filling out this pledge envelope like you’ve seen those pledge envelopes in the middle of the table, please take a pledge of open fill it out. But if someone came up to you and said they’ve got a tablet in here you go. I’m gonna hand it to you right now. And I’m not going to show you the $15 to $75.1. I’m going to show you the Esso We’re going around to the tables. The tables are saying What Anyone What exactly What is that look like? You’re saying what? I would like to make a gift tonight, Right? Exactly. Exactly. And then just say I have a really easy way. And then I like to be somewhat playful for it and say, you know, you could have your frequent flyer miles by tomorrow. Yeah, You know, just just being able to say, like, just do this right here, right now and boom, you’ll get an instant Thank you. That has a photograph and an impact statement. And then I know for rehab sisters, they send ah, hand written, personalized Thank you Card. A little bit later in the future, but they get that instant gratification. All right, So, Annalise, that you’ve done this at events or an event? Not yet. That’s good. Sign. Coming. Coming. Coming up. Okay, okay. They’re just really good at thinking people. I just know that from personal. All right, so then you just So then the person with the was working for the organization, Just asked, how much would you like to donate? Right. So they’re going to show them a major donor level. So again, like, let’s say it’s $200 a person, and so you’ve got on the sheet on the form, you know, 500 a 1025 105,000 and fill in the amount you want. And then they look at that and they can say, What can I give $100? Yes. Can I give a million dollars? Yes, but we’re we’re prepping them. Were prompting them to be thinking OK paid $200 to come here, and I was planning on giving something anyway. And this is like this super super simple way to do it. All right, So if it is ah, $200 a ticket gala. Where would you start the ask string? What would your advice speak? Ah, well, I would say get them drinking. First way to talk about the time I just wear hearing that. Yeah. So 20 and physically, You know, on the donation form, what would you start the ask string with the with the numbers be mount. What amount would you start? No, that’s particularly gonna depend on the whole matter. Ask. Yeah, it is okay. Making me feel like I don’t know what I know I’m feeling. I just I didn’t know. You thought I meant what? Where, like what time in the program. Okay. Yeah, really? You can’t generalize of its $200 ticket. Would you start the ask string up to 50 or 505 100 or something like that? Yeah. Um I mean, we are still in the early stages. We’ve just It’s only been less than a year that we’ve been doing this so we don’t have a huge number to look at me. Oh, yeah. We think it really depends on the organization. And we want to work with the executive director, the development director, maybe even the board to get an idea of what feels like they’re normal. Okay. You want to look at the donation history of the organization to see what kind of major gives that? Got what? The average major can build the US base it more visible on a e-giving history of the organization, like medium givers. Then the ticket price. Okay, Okay. I take the simple minded approach. See, my fund-raising is all the consulting out. It was all planned e-giving So we’re not talking about these events, you know? We’re not gonna sign your way. Have an attorney in the corner preparing wills or way Do it through legalzoom if you want. You know you can, you know. So I’m not doing event based play e-giving fund-raising. Right? But on the major gift form, there could be a little box there that says I am interested for sure, Absolutely. But I’m you know, I’m not running fund-raising at events as planned giving, but I’m not saying Of course, I I’m the evangelist for plan giving with that without the religious overtones. I mean, I’m always put it on your envelope flaps. Put on your business cards. Put in your email signature included in your will ask how? Yes. Absolutely Another great point about these. I guess. I was just trying to justify myself minded suggestion of basing it on the ticket price. Okay, Go ahead. Adam. I’m sorry. Yeah. I wanted to say another great point about doing this online is that you can also integrate these online forms into a more traditional major gift. Ask situation. Living room. Explain that. Oh, yes. So you could make the couple has decided No point in waiting. Exactly. Like if you’re online form works well with mobile devices, which you definitely should do. Then you can bring a tablet to a meeting with major donor. Sure. And then when they’re ready to make the donation instead of writing the check or getting a promise to make a donation, you can actually have them get the credit card to make the donation, right? Would you like to do it right now? No pressure, exactly. But if you like, we could We could do it right now. And you can have your frequent flyer miles tomorrow. And I think that free and Elisa, that’s gonna end up being a good fit for your board members. For example, Yes, absolutely. Um and Adam, I was I was thinking about in my previous life before I did grassroots non-profits and I did a large asks from major donors up. I had one asks situation where the CEO insisted that after the person who made the $100,000 commitment, she had to get their credit card right then and the only thing I had in my purse was a valet ticket. And so we wrote her credit card for $100,000 gift with the back of a valet ticket. And so this approach altum sophisticated, sophisticated, secure, right, right. That’s an interesting policy, CEO Yu, That is not a little pressure for ah, gift officer. You you have to get the credit card. She was She was closer. She was all right. She is a bold woman. Thanks for your commitment. Let’s do it right now. I mean, I’m saying, let’s offer to do it right. Rather not use our tablet. You’re welcome to mail you a check or we never even pull out the tablet in the first place because you just know that that’s not the right person based on the conversation, even still in their eighties. And they’ve already told you three times that they never made a single purchase online. They’re certainly not gonna make their $50,000 gift. Exactly your tablet. Okay, of course. Okay, uh, we’re all learning here. I’m trainable. Treatable. Um, let’s see the event. That’s really interesting about the events. Um, you also talked about how to create the forms. Adam, any more advice on the you can share on the details of the form I love. Of course. I love the plant Giving checkoff. Sure. So thank you for that. As I said, segmentation is key to this. You want to have a separate home for the major gift form and then ideally have different major gift forms, different giving levels or different segments that you’ve identified within your major donors? You definitely, especially on a major gift for model. Give formers, Really? But these sort of things become more important as the money goes up. You want to form to look like the rest of your organization’s website. That’s a place where a lot of non-profit forms. Unfortunately, full down is you’ll find a great, well designed website, good information, easy to navigate and then you reach the donation form and it looks nothing like the rest of the site. It’s a default site. It’s a default donation form for whatever vendor they have for their online donation. For so finding an online donation form that you can make it look like your sight. We can get a CZ much control as you can. Over what information you’re asking. Four. So you’re not asking, you know, forcing people to enter the phone number, for example. Things like that. Yes. You want to control, You want it to look like a form. And you definitely wanted to work well on mobile devices. Yeah, we’re past the mobile mobile mobile optimization discussion. Oh, yes. We just know that everything everything, including your donation form and needs to be optimized for a tablet and phone. OK, we’re past that. Oh, yes. We still but we still have to bring it up. We start, we do have to bring it up. Unfortunately, yeah, we still dumpster full way still remind people that over 50% of peep people today are using mobile first, so it’s only gonna go up from here. It’s not going to go down. Okay? Okay, and at least I’m feeling bad about you over there. But you don’t. You don’t have a lot of experience just rolling this out. So, uh, what do you Anything you wanna say that is related to what, Uh, Adam and Carrie, You’re saying, uh, you want to contribute? I mean, just beyond. From what? We were just talking about it for a small shop, Something like this is a really handy tool toe, have. Like I said, you don’t have to worry about doing as much follow-up. And you’ve got something in your back pocket. You can pull up and you don’t have to use a valet ticket. So wrinkled valet ticket. It’s a good point is you don’t necessarily need to have a huge budget to get started with this. Very good. That’s implicit in what we’re saying. Yes, we identify rehabs as one employee. No, but thank you for making one and 1/2 now, right? Oh, no. Technically, we’re both part times 11 tone. Oh, yeah. All right. So But thank you for making explicit Adam. Absolutely right. This is ideal for small shops, right? There’s a lot of online donation tools that do have reasonable donation forms that you can work with to integrate NTS site, make it look reasonably like inside and then use those to get started with. Of course, you know, spending more money lets you have more flexibility in terms of what the form is ensuring into personalization for each individual, which could be very powerful. And what Adam was saying earlier about where you send people online because our support has typically come from volunteers who give very small amounts transition we’ve gone through now where we’re going out into the community and getting much larger gifts. Volunteers. I’ve been really worried about how volunteers are gonna feel like, Is there $15 gift not valued anymore? That’s if they see all these hyre options. Statham’s point of having segmentation of dahna donation forms so that one caps out at 7500 right? Okay. In the ask string. Yes, I was I was implicitly It was implied that I didn’t know what I was talking about. Uh, obstacles. You have a little discussion about obstacles, challenges to this on how to overcome them. Carry well, having having had the opportunity to work with Anna Lisa and her board as it was going through a transition, and a new board was coming on where there were, in particular people who were coming on that had a lot of non-profit experience. We having the board’s support for something like this when it was very possible when we proposed this to Anna Lisa that her board could have said like, What do we need for with a major gift form? We’ve only been, you know, But she has an incredibly supportive board. And so, making sure that you have boards support and that they understand why you’re bothering to do this is a key component of it. It’s not just about the staff and the donors being happy, but it’s also about making sure that, well, that that everybody gets it and that the board supports it. What would you say it was? Your, uh, we’re putting you in hypothetical. Now you’re in a board meeting, and, uh, they’re saying exactly, that would mean online donations, for we have meetings. We have. We have We have two little bigger organization. We have, uh, we have two full time fundraisers. What we eat online donation form forward. Who’s this consultant who brought this consultant to this meeting, right? Exactly. Don’t go that far. Yeah, well, yeah. No e. Everybody is grateful for consultant. Why would anybody about a consultant, But just not to your face. What would you say to that room? Reluctant board. I would say this is the in the improv. The yes, and you know, this is Yeah. Everything you’re doing is great. We’re not telling you to do anything different. We’re just giving you an additional tool to use. And so if, for example, I were stewarding someone and things have been going really well and I’m ready to send them an email solicitation that I can put the hyperlink to the major gift form. Same thing with a direct mail piece. Same thing with a conversation, whatever. But I can. I can build that as being a norm for those donors, but it’s really up to the officer of how they’re going to use it again. Annalise doesn’t have the opportunity to have someone who’s going to be dedicated to using this, but she also she’s very sophisticated with her online users, so she’s gonna be ableto go in and change. The amounts are at another form or do those kinds of things on her own on Dhe. And then if she ends up with a development director and in the not too distant future, then that person can say, OK, wow, amazing. This organization already has this tool set up for me. I’m gonna see where it’s appropriate to use it to persuade the board that is just another tool and uses that at their discretion when the relationship is right or the boardmember right? Yeah, I also hear that it’s a future facing thing that this I think that online major fund-raising is going to be more and more standard as time goes on. I mean, where were based in San Francisco. There are plenty of young households with an income over 300,000 who don’t really use checks for anything. Yeah, so there’s plenty of people out there who are willing to make major gifts online for cash using cash either. But you’re right that as they mature, it’s gonna it’s just gonna that trend is just gonna continue. Yeah, I was with somebody, uh, they were nephew and niece, probably under 30 at the time, and we were coming back from a restaurant and they were locked out of their apartment. And the building owner sent the representative. But it was late, So there was a $50 service charge t open the lock, and neither one of them had the cash and they couldn’t, and they got into the apartment, you know, he did let them in and they couldn’t find their checkbook. I mean, I know exactly where my checkbook is, and I always carry cash. But neither one of them had either have to fry 50 bucks for the surface for the midnight service call to get them into their apartment, to not find cash or a cheque book inside that couldn’t find it dollars back? Uh, no, that’s still a point of contention. And as a result, I did not send a birthday gift this year. Um, don’t Don’t mess with me. I bailed him out. If it hadn’t been for me, the guy would not have let them in. What they have done, gone to an A t. M. Maybe they couldn’t find the debit card. They couldn’t find the checkbook for guns. And I know exactly where my checkbook in my top dresser drawer. Right, But um, you know, if you had a, uh, habit If that vendor if that the person that was sent out had the square, then they could take the person’s credit. Unsophisticated. That’s where things were going is that I want to be able Thio Just go on my phone and be like, 0 $50 to Tony, $50 Bhuvan, you know, And so why not take that to these other levels of? It’s just that’s how they’re used to doing things, you know, they go on Amazon and, you know, uh, Adam and I were interviewing someone. At one point he was talking about how she walks around her house with her phone, and when she notices that she needs something, she literally just goes on. Amazon places in order. And then later in the day, she’ll place another order like it’s just it’s her pendant. She just orders things one at a time. So why not make donating that easy to, you know, as close to an e commerce site as possible without being an e commerce site? Unless you’re like you, said one of the enterprise sized non-profits, who really can make this a robust program and as rehab sisters grows, you know, they’re looking at their own donor-centric management software and saying, Oh, well, this has certain limitations on it. As we grow, we can change products and find something that’s gonna allow the monthly gifts and the the onetime gifts in a way that works best. Yeah, All right, You know what? That’s Ah, perfect wrap. That’s a perfect conclusion. We’re gonna leave it. There they are. Adam London, founder of ah, Project Donor Love, which is not a non-profit sultan. See, Thank you. Carry Rice non-profits, Consultant also carry rice Consulting and Anna Lisa Davis, the executive director of Rehabs Sisters, thanks to each of you. Thank you so much. You’re welcome. And thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools help non-profits make an impact. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software Here’s a quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund. That’s fairly simple to use and the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring. That’s Laurie D. From a church and also a quote all the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost. That’s Kim T. From Lawrence Township, and this is all about Cougar Mountain software. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now, time for Tony. Stick to your board’s role in planned e-giving. Um, there is a video on this, of course, as there is, uh, there are all the all the critical subjects facing mankind. I’ve got a video on all of them and this the week it’s your boards, giving in your boards role in planned e-giving steps up at first. Um, first blush, let’s say, um, their own personal gif ts They need to be committed to the organization to the extent that they included include your organization in their will or some other state plan. And that’s reasonable to expect because they are your highest level volunteers. There you’re insiders there fiduciaries if legal duties to your organization and, um, their duties go beyond legal, including fund-raising support, and how can they ask others if they haven’t done it themselves, and that’s one of the other roles that they can fill. Once they have included you in their state plan, then they could be asking others their peers on the board, other volunteers, major donors. They could be encouraging other planned GIF ts from those folks hosting events, introducing you to other people. They could combine those that could host an event in their home and invite some of their friends to find out about more about your organization. There’s a lot that you’re bored can do around planned e-giving, and you find me, uh, saying more about it, flushing it out on my video, your boards rolling. Planned e-giving and that’s at tony martignetti dot com. That is Tony’s Take two now online adversity. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. You know that’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center on day three of the Conference three like gum in puberty and all of our 1990 see interviews are brought to you by our partners. That act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact with me is Bert Edwards, He’s communications director at Friends of the Columbia Gorge. Burt, Welcome. Thanks. Tony is great to be here. It’s good to have you back. Thank you. We think it was We think it was about three years ago. It ntcdinosaur? Yeah. San Jose Sense sense in San Antonio was sent. No sandals. I’ve got my hands. Okay. Okay. It was That was either 15 or 16. We’re not sure. All right. It’s good to have you back. Uh, you’re session this year is Social Security combating fake news, triaging twitter, trolls and dealing with digital distractions. A lot of injuries. I start out. Why do we need this session? I don’t think we need to think. Well, well, I’ll give you well, Put it this way. What do you feel like? Non-profits. Need to know that they don’t about managing trolls and digital distractions. Well, there’s actually a interesting background history for how this panel came to be. And so this panel was one of a couple panels that the end tem team had picked out as a community session as far as a topic that they wanted Thio speak about, uh and so I ended up getting in contact with Amy and ash and, uh, worked with them to kind of put together the concept. They actually connected me with my first panelist, Ken Montenegro, whose on the End 10 board and then can we were kind of fine time for include tuning, so to speak, the topic because we really want to make a discussion. He suggested that we reach out to actually the keynote speaker idiot who was able to join us. So it really kind of came together as, ah, community topic. And it’s something, sadly, that all non-profits they’re dealing with these days we’re gonna talk about how to keep your staff, your supporters and social ambassador’s safe. When they’re talking about your organization online, where they’re putting themselves out as the face of the organization, how do they stay safe? Um, and then you had a group exercise to What was that? So basically, instead of eso when Kenan mediating and I were chatting instead of ah, doing power point, we decided we really want to have a discussion with the audience. And as we don’t have ah, we wish we did have a magic box that we could give her everyone to deal with trolls and digital distracters these days, we thought instead, we share some lessons that we’ve learned and then have a discussion for people to share other things and have a conversation. Um, so that overall was the challenge. So the first exercise we did was I actually walked through an example, something that happened to me, which was a case of every day you come into work on one of my colleagues came to us with our social listening report, and all of a sudden someone was tweeting at us and accusing us of stealing a photo online. They hadn’t e mailed to reach out that we had bought the photo inappropriately off him. They were just calling us and our CEO of photo geever. And they started then tagging media out, saying that this organization and this person stole our photo. Um, and that and so actually I talked a little bit about the situation I then asked. We then had a discussion with members are argast as far as how they would have handled. It was interesting. I got some suggestions for what we ended up from, actually, some things that we didn’t end up doing, but it would be interesting to try. Well, that’s all flush out a little bit. So what? Well, first, what did you do? What did you do? We? Well, what we did was after we looked into it. What it turns out is that the photo we had bought was from 1/3 party photo vendor. The photographer at some point had had a falling out with, and I don’t remember the outlet, and I won’t. I won’t use their name. Sure. At some point, she had had a falling out with that group. She had taken her photos down. And so all of the organization, because there was a number of non-profits. Our non-profit had bought that photo to do some work on Syria, and they were the number non-profits had bought that photo. She either did a similar thing as far as kind of threatening them on Twitter. Or she’s kind of set, like, kind of a legalistic sort of Ah, season desist. Yeah, yeah. Um So we tried to find a way to actually engage the person in a conversation that we didn’t have a contact information. We sent them a GM. They did not respond. So at that point, I came up with two plans. One was We decide to go ahead and take the photos down, because when we take photos, even though we had about the photos legally, But we take that very seriously, Andi, that we couldn’t engage with the dialogue with the person that was that was the least passive resistance. And as the alternative, what I had prepared to do was to engage her on my personal Twitter account so I could deal it, escalate the situation as far as it wasn’t our institutional social media accounts and her and said it would be metoo communications director talking thio this unhappy for did she end up engaging with you as an individual? Well, actually, when we took the photos down, she thank the New York Times. Although the New York Times didn’t contact us about stealing on her photos, Um, and then she stopped. So I didn’t have to face-to-face D’oh! Okay, Okay. What were some of the suggestions you got in the session? How to deal with it? You know, we got a really interesting suggestion that I didn’t think of it, and someone suggested that we should have taken a photo of the receipt that we had and put a note on Twitter saying, Hey, we’re sorry that you’re concerned we actually bought this legally. Here’s the receipt and that’s interesting approach might have been kind of antagonistic. A cz um, her tweets were fairly hostile, so it might have worked. Come. It’s hard to say whether that would have egged her on the other challenges. It was consuming a lot of our time, okay? And that was one thing that we had were after is an issue. Even if you’re in the right, it may just be easier to fold. It’s not. It’s not that big a deal. Maybe it’s not worth fighting a battle over. Exactly. And that was one of things that we talked about at at the session is when do you make that make make that judgment call? Because I mean, like, for me, it’s like I really want to protect my staff of my colleagues, Um and so being accused of wrongly steal a photo for me, I took very seriously and also photo rights. I mean, I also take really seriously, but in this case it was consuming a lot of bad with knowing me. But the personnel manager social media accounts. And that was something again. We discussed this faras while you might want to fight, it distracts you from your mission. And so, in this case, making making the situation go away so we could get back to our work. I wonder if it’s worth saying Thio tweeting that, uh, wait, We’re out of respect for the photographer. We’re taking the question of question about photograph down. But we want our supporters. We want you to know that we did legally buy it. I don’t know if at that point you would put a photo of the receipt, the invoice paid invoice, whatever, or just say we have a paid invoice. But in the interest of fairness and whatever, you know, we’re just gonna We’re just gonna fold it. We’re just gonna take the photo down. But we want you all to know that the accusation is not right. I like that approach because it’s very transparent for your other users who might be on wondering about what aboutthe presumption is. If they take it down, then they’re in the wrong right? So you’re saying No, that’s not the case. We’re willing to take it down out of just simplicity and fairness. But we’re not. We’re not in the wrong here. Exactly. Another thing about your approach is that I, like is also is a chance for us organization to restate your values, which is a photography rights is really important. Electoral property is a treasure exactly and way don’t violate that way. Have a receipt if anyone wants to see it. Well, you know, the mos or something like that. We have an invoice. Okay. Eventually, I said we could learn. We learn from the crowd. Of course. Um what else? What else? Uh, what other types of situations did you talk about? Our might non-profits encounter? You know, one thing that came up that was interesting. This is hard for me. It’s a communications director, but one of my co panelists brought up the point that, you know, sometimes you might need to push back on your communication staff or have a dialogue about Why are we Why do we want to broadcast this information as sometimes? Maybe there’s a reason that point information out and and sometimes not. And she was talking about. So here’s an example. When she was when she was talking. It made me think back from from the past. So when I was working at the US Institute of Peace, I remember we were meeting with our colleagues in the religion in Peacemaking Initiative, and they were doing some really great work on D. U S Institute. He’s being a taxpayer funded in front organization, and it was really important for the public know what they’re doing with the taxpayer dollars. And so we’re trying to come up with ways to put out more information about what what the religion priest make initiative was doing the challenges. A lot of the facilitation is that they were doing overseas the people in the participants who would come those inter religious sorts of conversations. Often they would come at their own personal risk. And so we were chatting with our colleagues in one of our colleagues, said, I understand, and I agree. We need to talk more about the work that we do. But if we accidentally, for instance, talk about put the participants of a recent workshop that they had had in Nigeria, those participants and even parts of their family’s lives could be at risk, and the outreach value, you just isn’t worth it. And so that was actually a good conversation that we had with the program stuff. I mean, we were able to come up with a middle ground on one of those being that we would have a conversation and some things that they did. We’re just too sensitive. And even though it would be great to talk about them, we just wouldn’t know the risk that we made a mistake. And then someone got hurt because he never want that to happen. And so that was one thing that came up. And I thought that was a good conversation as Faras again engaging your communications and outreach people to think about what you’re putting out and why, and if you really need to put it out there or not, how about from the audience? Did, uh, did, um, challenges arise or situations arise from the audience that you remember that you can share? Yeah, there was an interesting question that came up. Um, I’ve encountered this a little bit as well, and it was a challenge about when you’re working in a coalition or with partners with other non-profits, and it’s a sensitive issue and or you may have information about services or constituents that’s sensitive. How do you deal with that? Particular Because Or Tasers have different levels of mean. Non-profit will be vastly different size and resource is on. They might have different approaches. Thio. How they deal with with privacy and or And that was that was interesting conversation that one member of the audience raised because it was something they were dealing with, and they just kind of want to talk through it. And so that was nice for that person. Will that kind of talk about what they were going through? Not only the panelist, but other folks and nines were able to offer some thoughts and suggestions. So where did you hear What are some of the suggestions? Well, actually, that I want listeners toe learn from learn from what you learned. Well, actually, it was interesting. That was partly where this where we went into discussion about thinking about what information you need to put out. Uh, there were several suggestions that members the lions had, as faras secure systems that you can use Thio thio trade information as far as if it’s sensitive, not necessarily using the normally mall or even, for instance, Google docks are very popular within the non-profit community. But that type of information is probably bad for a Google doc, because it’s really hard. I don’t know exactly who has access to a Google doc s o. We talked about some obscure ways, Thio to trade information, which and share information which I thought were useless. Um, and some services people actually exchanged business cards so they could give information to each other. Um, offline. So why do you say that about Google docks? It’s it’s hard to know who who has access to it. What’s the concern there? I think the challenge with Google docks and we use that a lot is I mean, once the link is out, I mean often is in a way, I was gonna share. You don’t know who’s okay. Yeah. Okay. So just making sure that your partners are having the same sort of care for the sensitivity and protection of your data that you are a time for our last break Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories get media attention on those stories and build support for your mission. They’re into media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to dot C E o. We’ve got butt loads. More time for online adversity. We still have a good amount of time together. Burghdoff. So what else? Uh, what? Uh, I’m hoping there are other situations and how they got resolved or what the discussion points were around them. That people suggestions that people had another. You got another situation? Yeah. Um, so one situation that was that was discussed. Waas Ah, there was a participant that noted that they had a challenge with having their social media feeds actually being mined and that information being used against them. So they went they actually had folks that looked at their personal Facebook and Twitter accounts on dhe, then use the information to insinuate themselves into their circles and actually did some things that were disrupted in regards Thio. They would have people sometimes show up at events that they found out their social media. Um and, um, that would reach out to people to be other people. Yeah, these imposters was that it was not asking the name of the organization, but was at a high profile organization that did some kind of provocative, controversial work that that they’re their individual members of the staff would be stalked like that. So the person in that case was working on a pretty controversial issue. Um, that was in the news. So I won’t I won’t say which justifies the action, but I’m trying to figure out what the motivation is. Just embarrassment trying embarrass somebody who stands for something that the stalker disagrees with. Cancerversary. Okay, They really were looking to disrupt the work that that person was doing on Ben and the tire network. And frankly, frankly, that throw them off. So but it was really on the ground. Everybody organizing work. So, um, which which made that even more challenging, Cause I mean, you’re out in the field, and all of a sudden you have this disruption of Yeah, Who is this person? So what the organization do, or what was the conversation around it? Well, that was interesting, because one of things that that person had taken away from the experiences eso es. They’re more careful about, um about what they put out on social media. So, for instance, I mean, personally, personally, right? So the consciousness that raised their much more careful what they personally put out on social media, they’re much more careful now in regards Thio, if they’re working on a, uh, organizing or Abssi activity overseas, as far as even just noting that they’re gonna be over there just even a casual, you know him at this diner, that sort of a photo that that sort of checking to make sure, for instance, gee, attacking is off when they’re taking that when they’re taking photos. Um, so it really changed the weather. That person kind of relates to social media, and that was someone who had really grown up, as far as you know, being an active social media users. Faras I come here with my friends and we’re having this. We’re hanging out here, we’re going to be there. I mean, that really changed the way that they they interacted. Just gonna walk in through that. Well, it doesn’t have to be circumspect about their own Facebook and Instagram posts. Tweets you had a part of the session was strategies for keeping your staff your volunteers safe. So maybe think of Ji attacking, having them in their personal posts turn Geo tagging off. What else? What other strategies you got for keeping us all safe? You know, one thing that we talked about and we did a little better serve a cause. I mean, most organizations have, like, a social media policy that kind of think about how you talk on social media. One thing a lot of organised don’t have. Although when we did a survey of surprised more Cokes did have it is having a policy in place, eh? So that if you have a member of your staff that is being harassed because of who they are on social media, So, for instance, this is had walked through our CEO at my last job because we had a lot of experts that spoke out on a lot of issues in regards to humanitarian and development that could be controversial. Um, and if one of our experts was out speaking, and all of a sudden they were personally attacked, even maybe docks and I just kind of walked our CFO. So what could we do? As far as what we’ve prepared as faras if they need like personal security to be able to help them out, or if they might need to. Stella stay in a hotel room for a couple of days. It’s like they’re just walking through some scenarios, hopefully things that would never happen. But when those things happen, things start moving really quickly. So having like actually HR policies to support, like your staff, they’re speaking on social media because if you’re asking your staff to go and put themselves out there, they’re they’re both speaking their personal capacity. But they’re also there a za person. You just need to make sure that they’re that they’re taking care of. So we talked a little bit about that. I was actually what were some of the policies that came out of this? I was really surprised to see how many non-profits I have actually thought about that. I think that’s interesting difference between from now and a couple of years ago when I had talked with colleagues and most folks didn’t have that, um, and a number of folks ice that that actually their admin in HR people. They either it had, like practices or plans in place to be oppcoll Thio help folks out. Um, and that’s where some of those practices of this practice get the detail. We drill down to the details. Yeah, I think so. So one of them actually is making sure it’s over. Example. When we’re talking about a security issue well, making sure that there’s actually like an emergency fund that you could dip into that sort of a case emergency fund your person is working remote e-giving on. But there’s there’s access to cash for an emergency. Well, even the organization as faras if if someone has a personal security problem that there’s that there’s a fun that you could tap into the organization level, right? Okay, right, because, I mean, you can have the policies that, for example, like if, like if a staff member get stocks and that you’ll put them up in a hotel, etcetera, etcetera. But if you don’t actually squirrel away like an emergency fund, a rainy day fund at your organization, so when that happens, you actually can’t pay for the hood. The motel may need a new car, a different car for the time being in a new place to live temporarily. So making sure that the money the money that the money is actually there. And that was one thing hearing from folks that organizations are moving to that next step. Um, some organizations are actually so a lot of humanitarian rittereiser will have a security team that will work with people on on security trainings. And some of those organizations have now started doing Social Media’s security training, which I think is a prudent thing to do. Yeah, so it was positive Thio here that, um so there’s actually been a lot more progress than over the past couple years. Then I might have imagined, just from consciousness has been raised. There’s a lot of headlines on dhe, particularly the organizations that are provocative, doing controversial work. They know they’re at risk, you know, they’re they’re staff is at risk. And the volunteers, I mean, a centrist. In fact, I was doing a little research before the panel. So the Pew Research Center did a study in 2017 and four out of 10 adults have they found, have experienced some sort of online harassment. And if you look at folks 18 to 29 the number jumps up to 67%. Holy cow, 2/3. 2/3 of some kind on Hein harassment attacks from 18 to 29. Yeah, that’s that’s amazing. And so that’s why my God, everybody, that you’re growing up with it now. It’s like the tooth fairy. All right, Um, that was another 67 minutes together. You got any more hope? You do. You know the story or policy you mentioned hr. But also PR session describing Talk about PR policies. What you got for? Yeah, Speaking on the communication side, I think, and like with the photo example that we talked about coming up with ways to be transparent, but also to try the de escalate, uh, questions and again, thinking about one thing as far as if you’re gonna talk about something, can you talk about it after the event or the activity has occurred. So that way your folks air out of whatever activity or if they’re overseas, that there in his own unconference actually out of the zone of conflict, and then they talk about Okay, so that’s that’s one thing to think about on the on the communication side. I’m having a so have assisting have for social listening is super important. These days so you can get information real time. I recommend most organizations to no only track your key channels. But if you have colleagues that air speaking in a professional capacity or semi professional capacity just to keep an eye on again just in case something happens that way, you’re able to zsystems situations online can estimate really quickly. It’s been out of control within a couple of minutes. Come closer to the Mike Burns. Thank you. Yeah, I think another thing to keep in mind is when you’re listening, yeah, doing they’re listening And then keep in mind like the old philosophy is don’t put anything, don’t post anything that you don’t want to see in the New York Times. Yeah, if you want to see it as a headline, he don’t post it in here. I mean, one thing that I think a lot of folks forget is that remember the press really probably won’t call you beforehand before like grabbing skin grabs and running because we’ll just assume that it’s, uh, for general attribution. So so that’s so as an as an example for folks that actively worked for the press is just good for them to keep in mind and do, like a little bit of training. So, as example, a couple years ago, when I was living in Virginia, I was having a hard time because I owed the state of Virginia $1 income tax, your scofflaw troublemaker and the system. How is the state can operate without your dollar? Well, exactly. And the system is not set up online to pay $1. Okay, It was driving me nuts as far as I was. Like, I would drive down the Richmond, but it would cost me more and gas. And I was gonna like post on social media. How frustrated. I could just send a check. Well, ultimately, I did send the check because I called the apartment revenue. Uh, ultimately, like checking the stamp was the easiest way to do it, cause even they were confounded. And there was a point when I was so frustrated, almost like, put some post on social media about how ironic and funny that I really want to pay my $1 for the Commonwealth of Virginia. But the system set up, so you really can’t. Okay, Who wants to be delinquent for tax for $1. But then I realized I have a number reporters that followed me professionally and probably my place of work really doesn’t really want that to be in, like, a news story on so that the case is far. Is this kind of You just have to be slightly careful in anything you put on social media courses. It’s this kind of public works. So it’s good to have just swallowed that one that you pay your dollar. I did all right. But I did. Thank you, but I don’t live in Virginia, but I traveled. Virginia, I traveled 95 virgin. So next, no storm will be grateful. But the plow is there on gasped Onda, the driver behind the wheel of courtesy thanks to your dollar doing doing the right thing. Yeah, I want this in the penny rolls. But I thought that costume or in FedEx, you wanted to give a little stick to it. All right, I see. Um, tell us one more story. We got about another two minutes or so. Yeah, so, actually, this is gonna go back into the wayback machine on, and this is kind of early story, but this is an example with PR. But one of those strange days that you know, your computer wasn’t working. And so I went to my colleagues on the I t t. These aren’t so strange anymore. Sometimes I wonder extreme, which is which happens more often. Andan they looked on the server, and they actually like this is you have actually have a real problem. They were So they were recited on. And so they started playing around service and okay. And now we wait, what? The issue is, um, problem server. You had a bunch of e mails backed up. Now you should be good. Unfortunately, I then started getting a flood of emails, Um, and all in French, or at least 95% of them in French, um, went back to the times like, Oh, my God, what’s happening? So they went back and changed what? They changed on the server. And I don’t have to speak French. Fortunately, like I took Spanish and Japanese and high school in college. But I had colleagues that did who told me I probably wouldn’t have one to read most of the e mails. And so what it turned out was was that, um we were going to be having an event in a couple of weeks and bringing a leader from Africa. I won’t say which one who is quite controversial s. Oh, my email box had been targeted by Abasi campaign, and my colleagues on the I T team found it as they were talking about this new tool about the date myself that they thought they could find that solution in the new tools Google. All right. And But that was a That was an interesting case, as far as it was just It was a French advocacy group that was opposed to the speaker. You’re gonna be having a driven. And I was doing and I was press lead on the event, so they had targeted my evil boss. So, um, so that was that was interested. You handle it? Well, it was you. You talk back to these people, do you engage them? You try or we didn’t, uh, in that case, I mean what we came up with A So we posted something on our website explaining why we hadn’t invited the person why we thought dialogue was important. Uh um I mean, back in those days early like way. Still working on making it a lot by fax a Zara’s with the press. So put in a statement on the website was the easiest thing to do because it wasn’t like one good distribution point. We didn’t. But we did add a note into our email newsletter again, that kind of going a longer point in the newsletter, explaining this is why we hadn’t invited this person. This is why we think it’s important from speak. We understand people disagree, but we encourage you to come. But that’s a case also, where I was seeing the number of emails that they got that I got to say that they ended up getting in and getting more security for the We had no problems. Way did have some protesters that came and spoke out, but I mean, that’s actually was good. That was a dialogue that we really want wanted to have. Okay, properly managed. It can become an opportunity. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. He’s Bird Edwards, communications director at Friends of the Columbia Gorge on this is Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC 2019 non-profit Technology Conference, all each of our 2019 interviews is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits Make an Impact Thanks so much for being with us next week. New Power With Henry Timms If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. 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Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live Life your way on talk radio dot N Y C. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking store business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. 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Nonprofit Radio for October 26, 2018: HTTPS & Does Your Website Suppress Giving?

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Ben Byrne & Katherine White: HTTPS
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Rachel Clemens: Does Your Website Suppress Giving?
Rachel Clemens is concerned that your website is holding you back from raising all the money you can. Are you confusing donors? Overloading them? She’s chief marketing officer at Mighty Citizen. (Also recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference.) It’s website day!




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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with strep. Oh, simba, leah if i had to read that you missed today’s show working virtual we talk through the issues encountered when managing remote staff technological, generational, emotional measurement, recruiting and retaining. Our panel is heather martin from inter faith family and alice hendricks with jackson river. I was recorded at eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference and map your data to your audiences. Feed your folks the data they crave. Courtney clarke and david mask arena have identified five audience types and their data needs she’s with forum one and he’s fromthe conrad and hilton foundation that’s also recorded at eighteen. Auntie si, tony, take two who’s on first, we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising david driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com bye! Tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Here’s working virtual welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we’re coming to you from the convention center in new orleans second interview of the second day of our coverage all our ntcdinosaur interviews are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests right now are heather martin, ceo of inter paid family, and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. Heather alice, welcome. Thank you. Welcome to non-profit radio. What have you wanted to be here ? How’s ? The conference going for you ladies ? Great. Have you done ? Yeah. Excellent. Okay, great. Next one. That goes good. Superlative. Have you done your session yet ? We did. We were on yesterday morning. Okay. So, it’s all relaxing now ? Right now, we’re just partying. Drinks last night. Exactly. Okay, all right. Your workshop topic is working virtual attracting and managing the best talent. I’m sure we have stats on how many organs non-profits have virtual employees. Or at least what the trends are. It’s it’s obviously growing. It’s really growing wouldn’t be here. And not only in the nonprofit world in the for-profit world as well, and especially in tech. Yeah, okay, absolutely it’s becoming it because of the technology that can enable easily to work from home, your chat technologies, videoconferencing, it’s become a thing and everyone is doing it now on exploring whether it works for their organizations a lot. Let me dive into the word, everyone not to quibble with you at all, but i was thinking generationally, are there fifty and sixty some things that are comfortable working, being virtual ? Not well, maybe we’ll get to whether they’re comfortable having virtual employees. They will get to that. My voice is cracked like i’m fourteen get that, but how about being virtual employees themselves ? Are they comfortable ? I’m over fifty, so include myself in that ? Are we comfortable doing that ? Or, you know, i think it actually depends on the organization and it’s really dependent on the organization making the employees comfortable, and so i’m not sure i don’t know if you have any stats, but i don’t know from an age perspective, there’s a very good question about an older generation being comfortable having virtual employees under the managing them, however, as being the virtual employee, i think it’s all about how the organisation sets it up. Okay. Excellent. All right, so that there’s promised them for those fifteen. Sixty something ? Absolutely. Okay. Okay, let’s, talk about it. Since since we’re skirting around it, how about comfort or discomfort with having employees being virtual when you’re over fifty ? So i again, i i think that there might be an age discrepancy in the comfort, but i also think it’s just personality, and i’m finding that when i talked to a lot of people who are looking to work virtual and they’re asking me, what can i do to go to my manager, my supervisor and quote unquote, sell them on me working virtually my answer to them is find out what the resistance is. There is part of the resistance as we’ve always done it this way i need to see my employees to know that they’re working. And how do you get around that ? Some of the key things that we talked about in our session are setting very clear goals and making sure that those goals are being met. But let’s, go to alice talk to flush out the gold. Gold setting a little. Yeah, i mean, i think that there’s not that much difference in terms of goal setting in terms of accountability for delivery, bols, that you’re supposed to be doing so used that the real issue is communication making sure you have a structure where there’s frequent communication and proof that you’re doing the delivery ble. So you’re measured not on a punch clock style of i get to work at nine. And i leave at five. And therefore i must have worked during that eight hour period you’re measured based on what is the work you were set out to do. And did you actually do that work in the time period ? I said i would do it. So if you’re a project manager are working on a program area you work with your you work with your supervisor on here, the things that i’m going to get done at a particular time. And if that’s not done that’s ah, that that could be a concerned that’s a problem, but that’d be a problem in the non workplace too, but rather than time. It’s mostly based on work product. Okay, okay. So that should apply even if you don’t have any virtual, i think one of the things we found is that working virtually is this, or managing virtually is the same as managing in an office. But you just have to be much more intentional about what you’re doing. Much more intentional about your communication, understanding that you’re not gonna have that water cooler conversation, that someone’s not going over here. Something and understand where you are in a project and b ready to communicate with those people who are not physically in the office. But the management and the psychology of the management is very similar. Okay, it’s, very valuable, you know, and make explicit. Yeah. How about attracting people, teo a virtual or attracting the right talent so that we’re comfortable that they’re gonna work in this work environment ? What do you, what you thought ? Well, there’s. Two thoughts on that that i have one is what one is that your talent pool is the entire country or world, should you see fit ? And there are wonderfully talented people in places that aren’t in the city or town in which your organization is located, and it gives you this ability to recruit from a wide place. And you can also hyre incredibly talented people from who have a wonderful life style. In a less cost of in my organization, we have people who live in a lower cost of living state than washington, d c where were based, and that allows me to provide a living wage and for my employees in that. But the other thing is just you, when you’re recruiting, you have to be very mindful of the interview process, and i think one of the things we talked about in our session was helping people figure out who these folks, how well they’ll respond to working virtually how do you do that in an interview ? Yeah, who’s best with that, heather so so some of the things that that we recommend, some of the things that we recommend is number one, we use technology as a tool to enhance communication in a virtual environment. So sometimes you’re using video comp, renting just for a regular meeting, and you’re talking through instant messenger and there’s other ways you’re using technology. So in the interview process, i always recommend that people use the technology that you’re going to require those employees to be using during their job if they can’t do an interview on skype or zoom or appearance and it’s very uncomfortable, it’s not to say that that might not be a good employee for you, but you have to be aware that there might need to be some training or development on that tool for them and no going. Into that is important when you’re hiring that person, and if you see generally a discomfort with technology that’s a pretty big red flag, or or or a red flag that you might need to overcome or that person’s not right for the position, and then the other question is some positions just don’t lend themselves to working virtually, and you have to be aware of that when you’re hiring also what are from ? Well, one of the easiest ones that we look at it if you’re an office manager and you’re managing the physical office days, it’s really difficult to be virtual when you need thio notice that there’s a crack in the ceiling where the vendor needs toe, you know, deliver something and be their way. We don’t have a tool for measuring the coffee level. Zack remotely happen. And now there’s an app for that you can probably it’s time for a break pursuing they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They want you to see this because they’ve taken the secrets from the fastest growing startups and applied those to your non-profit it’s free as all the pursuant resource is, are you accustomed to that ? Come on, it doesn’t even bear saying it’s on the listener landing page that’s at do you know where tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now back to working virtual or any others that stand out to you ? I think it depends on the industry and what the job you’re doing. If you’re someone who does intake or you have to be there to welcome people into the office, you need someone physically there. There may be hybrids where sometimes people could work in the office and sometimes people could work from home. And i think thinking this through before you moved to a virtual environment or virtual job for that specific role is ki you can’t just say, ok, tomorrow we’re just gonna go virtual zoho alice, how do you how do you create this environment ? Gonna be hospitable ? Toe virtual ? I mean it’s all about culture. You have to create a culture where everyone is communicating well with each other, where people know what the expectation is on response times of communication has got to start at the top. It has to start a willingness that you absolutely to accommodate virtual employees. Okay, so it starts there and how does that how does the ceo trickling down ? You adhere to it. So rather than walking from my office into someone else’s office and telling them what i think they should know that maybe two other people who aren’t physically, they’re also need to know i will do that on a slack channel, for example. So i’ll use an instant messenger chat program, and i’ll put them all on the channel and talk to them all together at once, even though you were the mark, even if that’s the situation. Yeah, because it requires amount of discipline because you don’t want to leave people out. The interstitial conversation that happens at the water cooler can also be done virtually and that’s pretty important, too. Okay. All right. We’re going to get the tools you mentioned. Slack, slack channel. Is that that it’s ? All okay, okay. A chat. It’s. Simple chance a chance. A chance for you. You’re over my head, but i’m trainable. Alt-right i could be a virtual employees trust way. Mind of some technology challenges there, but we could get there. I’ll be there immediately. Got the radio stuff ? Yeah. I’m very good at that. I mean, i got knobs and everything in front of buttons and all. I don’t know what they do. Okay, what else ? Uh, anything else about creating the environment, making inhospitable ? I think some of the things that seem or some of the other things are making sure that your remote employees have the tools, whether it’s, the technology or even a monitor to go along with that laptop that you’ve given them because some some people who go into a new job, they’re given a laptop, they say work from home and it’s not as easy as just is your home office conducive and being able to help them think through what are the things that they need to set up in a virtual environment to make them successful and effective at what they’re doing. We talked about it a little bit about security and knowing what the security measures are. You can’t go into a coffee shop and work from your computer. Number one. Are you on the y fire you on the public wifi ? Are you on a virtual private network ? Are you using your hot spot ? You’ve to go the bathroom and your computer’s sitting in starbucks do you leave it there and ask the person next youto watch your computer while you go to i mean, we set policies around these things, especially in organizations that have a lot of regulations on data and accessibility for their information. These are things you have to think about when you’re creating a virtual environment. Okay ? It could be hip, baby what’s the credit card p c m p c i b c i okay, what do you do when you’re at starbucks alone ? You’re on you’re on a vpn virtual private network ? Yeah, you have to go the bathroom. You gotta close up. You use the diaper changing table in and you pull it down in the restroom and put your laptop on that. Take care of your business. Okay ? It’s ? Very. You know, i love the ditty gritty. This are listen, i mean, we’re all about real life here. Way need detail. You need clear policies around policies that people sign and everyone is very well aware of what the security policies, our protection use of technology. You said the company’s versus your pride, your personal technology home versus away from home. Okay, all right. Help me out here. Getting else what else belongs all this ? What else belongs in our policy ? Well, so there’s, we’re talking about there’s communication policies. How ? I mean, one of the things that we found when we first started having more virtual employees. We started as an in office, evan was in the office, and as we grew into different communities, we had employees in different cities and states than our headquarters were located in and things like when i sent an email, i just need you to acknowledge that the email resent if you’re in the office and i send you an e mail and you haven’t responded, i could walk into your office and say, hey, you get my e mail even if you’re not ready to respond to it. I know you’ve gotten it, and by five o’clock that day, i’ll get an answer when someone’s virtual and you send an e mail, you have no idea if it got lost, did it go into their spam and you have to get some kind of communication with one quick got it. So we said a communication policy that says if i asked you something or requested something, you send an email back saying, i got it, and i’ll get back to you by wednesday period the end it’s all set, and so that that you need to be very much more aware of those types of things and other community way have communication policies that go along with that. Okay, alice, you want teo or policy statement ? I mean, the security, i think, is the most important, you know, the email security, the hacking potentials. You know what happens also, when someone is let go, the lockout procedures, they have access to all of your systems, and they’re, you know, in north dakota somewhere to coffee shop, you have to shut down all of their access to things. So all of that needs to be planned at the level in the company. What are you going to do and how you handling staff with remote devices ? Can we do this if we don’t have a dedicated staff person ? And we don’t have a dedicated staff person ? Yes, face-to-face so the family says the answer is yes, okay, because are you know, we’re small and midsize non-profits in this audience, listeners. So you you on board someone with technology when they leave, you do the same thing on lee with a virtual person, you don’t physically have them there, and so you have to do the same thing you would do if someone was in the office, but make sure you couldn’t do it while they’re not physically there. How did they get your computer back to you ? Do they fedex it to you ? Are you going to go pick it up somewhere if they’re not there ? And so just those types of things need to be thought through, okay ? No. Excellent. I love the policy statement details because this is stuff you have to think through, and then alice to your point, has to be activated, implemented on from the top absolutely can’t just have a policy and ignore it. You know, if if it’s the ceo hyre it’s a sea level person whose whose distant you know, they too have to say, i got your e mail and i’ll get back to you by wednesday, everybody has to play by the same rules. There shouldn’t be exceptions or any accommodations or anything else. Yeah. Okay, um, how about let’s talk about some of the needs that your remote staff has we’ve been talking about managing the office ? What what special needs to the people ? But we only see a couple of times a year that’s a great question, okay ? I mean, i think they way it took that long, they need community, they need a partner, they need a buddy, they need to know that they’re not all alone. I’m so frequent meetings daily standup calls on dh heather’s organization native oppcoll standup called well, it’s a it’s, a phrase for a daily time when you just spend fifteen minutes sort of roll going around the company’s saying who’s doing what that day or our a team, if you’re working on a project together, you know everyone’s together on either a video chat or a conference call, or it could even be during us dahna slack channel or a skype group or a google hangout, or any type of technology that people can come together for a period of time. The more frequent that happens, the more connected they feel, and there is an issue of feeling lonely, it’s not that you’re just going off on your back room and typing all day long on your own, you need to be part of a community and part of a team. And the technology helps enable that. And heather’s organization there’s you do ? What is it a buddy ? So anyone who is new who comes on board there’s a couple things we do one is, no matter what level you’re at, you come to boston for a couple days, toe on board. You actually see physical people that’s probably essential. It’s, really ? It was one of like he learnings when i started working virtually is to know that there’s a physical person and a physical space or just seeing meeting someone face-to-face gives you much more of a connection to them immediately. The other thing we do is when we hire people we kind of give them we give them a partner. So we hyre associate director her in l a and we put them with the associate director in atlanta. This is not a mentor. This is not a supervisor. This is someone you can ask the dumb questions too. Like, how do i get my expenses paid ? Or i’m sure they told me this during orientation, but i don’t know what. To do about x, y and z and just having that person that you know you can go to is critical, especially when you’re by yourself in an office or in your home, and you’re trying to go up the learning curve of starting a new job. Okay ? All right ? What else ? Uh, anything else to be a empathetic to our remote employees again, this is a typical management. I would say this you should be doing this any time is just everyone’s intent is good. Assume that is good and there’s a good intent all all the time. That could be that that that’s going to have implications for chatting any female ? No, you can’t you’ll never hear the well, not never, but most of the communications you’re not going to hear the inflection in the person you don’t see the sometimes you don’t see the physical, you don’t see the physical, you don’t get the inflection, and so before you jump into anything or someone sent and i get this all the time and sends me an email and says i need blank, well, that could be taken in so many different ways. Are you demanding something from me did ice not get you something there’s so much in just those three words ? And so my first thing is tio okay, they have good intentions. Let me follow-up you need blank by when ? What is this for ? Get mohr information, they’re not now. They could be like you haven’t done something, i need it now and could be screaming it could be screaming at you with the default is the default is not do that and what we do actually, as we have everyone’s created communications charter that says how they like to be interacted with. And so i understand if you are one of these people who sends very short emails, i also have the flipside where someone sends me seven paragraph emails to describe one thing. And so if i understand how you interact, i could read that email with that understanding, not teo immediately assume that you’re yelling at me in the e mails. Excellent. Okay, very valuable. Are anything else ? Anything else to be supportive again ? Empathetic to the remote employees if we covered it, recovered it ? But i want to make sure we’re the only other thing i can think of is definitely getting together at least once a year with the whole team culture building wants that, yeah, it’s tough, it’s, tough in a non-profit environment where you’ve got a very tight budget, but we have prioritized and all in person meeting in boston, so we’ve got staff in california, in chicago, in atlanta and philadelphia. We make sure that we try in our budgeting process to bring everyone to boston for two days during the summer, not only for good brainstorming and thinking and strategy conversations, but also so they can connect with each other and have that community and build that in person conversation and feel comfortable with each other, and you feel like once a year is sufficient, you know, if i had the budget to do it more, i want a little longer, but all of that, yes. And so you have to take it for one of the that the tools that we talk about is the airplane. I mean, yes, it’s expensive, but it’s a really helpful tool to really get past some of the boundaries that are put up when you don’t actually physically meet in person. Alice, do you have a virtual employees also ? Jackson river, thirty thirty. Thirty. Revoting entire organization is ritual. Oh, my god. Okay, where’s, the is there a physical office ? There is a physical office with three people in washington d c yeah, but so we all behave as if were virtual. And there are many days that i don’t go into the office so in it. So you know, it saves a lot of money and transportation costs. It stays dry cleaning bills for everyone. It saves child care expenses. If you know it’s a very great way to have a lifestyle. Because yu yu have that flexibility, there’s also downsides to it. There are days that i wake up in the morning at six a, m and check email and all the sudden it’s too. And i haven’t eaten breakfast yet. And then i’m until six at night. So you know it’s a the same type of work-life integration needs to happen in a virtual environment as well as a physical office space. You know, you need to know how to take a break. You mentioned saving childcare expenses. So so the the remote employee it needs to be understood that the remote employee may not be immediately accessible right for a quick, you know, for for a last minute way gotta talk right now. So i think it’s about have something going on that is going to hold him up for ten or fifteen way try and make sure that people have adequate coverage to do their job during the day, the hours that they need to work. So we have a lot of employees that are at thirty hours a week because they want to spend more time with their families. Um, older children can be met at the bus stop and take care of themselves for a few hours in the afternoon, but the expectations of performance are still there. You know, we’re pretty high street standards of that, you know, we don’t want you to be distracted from your work. He managed the west coast versus east coast. Well, what is the west coast people have to do ? The westfield people have to start at six a m local time. I think a lot of people do different policies on that. Our policy is that you work for the day that work the business day in the time zone in which you live. So it’s, sometimes hard if we’re dealing with europe and the west coast at at the same time because the time zones i don’t overlap is, well, every boy’s in europe, we don’t have employees in your body to have clients in europe. So it’s ah it’s a situation where we have to manage that, but there are organizations that have west coast people working east coast, ours you have that way don’t have explicit policy that you work those hours, but we ask people how early on the west coast, how early would you be willing to have a meeting ? So we will not set meetings with some people ? Some people are early morning people and they would rather work from seven to three rather than nine to five, and so we’ll work with your schedule individually and so we so there are some meetings i will have on the west coast is seven o’clock in the morning, but that’s due to that person willing to do that, we have a few minutes left still let’s talk about some of the tech tech tools back-up that was i gotta ask you about slack. But what ? Black dot com how ? Do we find it or what you do for us ? Blackbaud comets, how you find it, you know, it’s it’s equivalent to skype or there’s google chat any type of chat software where everyone can log into and then there’s you can make groups in them. So the term for a group in slack is called a channel. And in our organization we have a channel for one of the channels is named lunch and if you’re going to be away for twenty minutes are going to lunch. We just take we just like everyone who’s in the company on that channel and say, hey, stepping away for a bit, i’ll be back in half an hour so we are all know it’s almost a cz though you would see me walk out the door, you know, and i instead of walking out the door i’m just telling that channel what’s happening there’s channels for each project also. So slack is a good one. Scott argast black is already a verb. Just like someone you’d like someone it’s a verbal. You skype someone you trust someone. Do you remember a well, instant messenger ? That that was a one man was that you could use that well, i was. But okay, so slack for for chatting. A quick, quick chat about document sharing is simple google docks or something better. It’s a simple a school back and microsoft has a great year. We have this product microsoft’s one dr sharepoint microsoft suite has has a document sharing software. Ah, cloud based saving system skype is now skype for businesses and integrated with it. And so we’re using that in the office and then there’s there’s a ton of independent ones out there. And it’s, whether it’s, videoconferencing or it’s document sharing or it’s chatting there’s a ton out there. And i think it could be overwhelming. And for us it was evaluating what was best for our organisation and what our upper management was able. Teo use we talked about this before is modeling the behavior you want from your staff and so getting upper management on board was key. So one of our project management software we use a sauna, and we’ve tried three or four of them and our ceo like hassan, and so if she was going to use a sauna, we’re all going to use this on you and so i think that’s really important. It’s got to be easy to use and work for your organization. Calenda ring simple is good calendar ring, yet you have any other tools besides google calendar ? We’re using outlooks calendar. Yeah, okay. Microsoft again. Yeah. All right. I think what other categories we need. Teo a video chat video is really important to scrape. A couple couldn’t do one on video with skype you khun duvette dio with google hangouts, but any time you can actually have an opportunity to see someone’s face and most of the calls we try to do as videos on dh, we find that that works really well. River again, the sense of community and if you can’t get together, that’s almost the next best thing and video has come a long way. The technology is more seamless than ever before, and so at least you’re seeing the person you might not get all of the nuance of the physical that that’s in the room. But you can see it in emotion or you can see a reaction to something which is super helpful or their cat walking of the cat we could get a lot of pets walking in front of the camera while people are on video that’s gonna be a lot of fun to talk about cats, but, you know, you have thirty virtual employees. You have fun doing it. I mean, oh, it’s awesome. Oh, it’s completely awesome is i love it. And well, you know, the best thing is that that people have really formed strong relationships with each other, they when you ask them what they like most about working here is they say each other, they say the people i’m here because i have connected relationships with other people on the team and to be able to create a culture where people feel connected to each other in a remote environment is is like, that’s the thing i’m most proud of, anything we’ve ever done, it doesn’t have to do their software product or what we’ve done to impact non-profits is the fact that we’ve had a culture of people that have had a wonderful time working and doing productive, impactful things. Jackson river always had a largest proportion of employees virtual from the beginning, when the beginnings and the culture to start about about it in the family way started as a two and a half person organization in the same way got to probably about eight to ten people in the office. And then our growth took us into different cities and communities. And that’s when we became virtual because of the growth, and so were probably half in the office in boston. And then half of our staff is outside and there’s one or two people in a city by themselves. We’re gonna leave it there. Excellent. Very much. Thank you. Alright. They are heather martin, ceo of interfaith family and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. And this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc ladies. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Way. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with your nine ? Ninety or your brooks ? Are your brooks or your books of those books ? And brooks properly managed ? Well, i could help you with the books. Eyes financial oversight in place so that your money isn’t going to fly out the door over the brook talkto wagner, partner, eat huge tomb. I’ve gotten to know him. I trust him. He’ll be honest about whether wagner is able to help you. You know where to go. Wagner, cps dot com now, tony steak too. I was at the lou costello statue in paterson, new jersey. Remember lou costello of abbott and costello and who’s on first. So what’s the connection, i hope, you know what’s on first is you’ve got to know that i mean who’s on first. Now who’s, what’s on second. I don’t know’s on third. I hope you know what i’m talking about. The connection is you gotta have some sense of history because this this comedy routine and the abbott and costello you they were from the forties, and if you want to be really successful, implant giving and you going to be actively talking to planned giving donors, you need to have some sense of history from the forties or fifties and vietnam. My video is that tony martignetti dot com now it’s time to map your data to your audience. Nces, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference day two we’re kicking off our date to coverage with courtney clarke and david mask arena all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits courtney clarke. Hello. Hello to you. Welcome. Let me give you a proper introduction. David, you could say hello. Hello, david. Mastering it from the convent and hilton foundation introduced himself. All right, david happens to be the digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. And courtney clarke is managing director of user experience forum one. Welcome. Good morning. Thanks for having us kicking off. Thanks for kicking off with us. Hey, happy to be here. You’re workshop topic is data and audience connecting to create impact. Okay, let’s, start with you. David. What do you think ? Non-profits aren’t getting quite right in this subject. Like, why do we need this workshop ? To be honest with you, tell you, please beyond yeah, don’t wear really blunt with the arika there’s a lot of data collection that’s happening in the nonprofit sector, but people don’t really do anything with it. There’s like a statistics where it’s like a very, very small percentage of non-profits you do something with data ? And, you know, for example, there’s so many data points that in any day, that non-profit collectibe we have overload, i mean, really was data over there’s like there’s, like this just beautiful dash was like, what do we do with this ? You have to stay close to michael, okay ? All right, so we’re overloaded. So courtney, what we’re trying to do and have you had your workshop yet ? Yes, we had it yesterday, so you’re on the downside. Yeah, this is easy for you. So what you were doing and then ? And what we’re going to do now is trying make sense of data that well don’t feel overloaded. Well, it’s, it’s mostly around communicating data and really being clear about who your audiences are when you’re doing that cause we have identified five different data, sort of consumers or data people who will consume your data, but they all need different amounts of information, different formats. So for example, like a data consumer, this is like an interested person in the public. Maybe they’re a news consumer. They don’t have a lot of domain knowledge always, and they don’t have a lot of data skills, so what, you’re giving them is going to be very different than, say, a policy maker or a date. A producer. Okay, someone who’s more in depth in the details of it already knows, has has a yeah, you’ve identified let’s. Take it from there. We’ve identified five different audiences. Is that right ? That’s ? Different, different types of audiences. Okay, what are what are the five ? We should start there. Yeah. That’s okay, what ? Five ? I’ll start. Okay. The next one. So data consumer two and then three e before there’s a ping pong tournament here. But we’re not. We’re not going out today. Okay, fair enough. So first is i mentioned the data consumer. This is i hate it when people say general public, because here you’re not really targeting everyone in the whole world. So let’s be a little bit more specific news consumers, people who are already interested a little bit. Okay, okay. Like i said, not a lot of dough mean knowledge. Not a lot of data skill. What you’re calling this group the data consumer. So this is the person you’re like scrolling through your news feed you’re looking at your phone. Ahn, do you see an instagram ? Post or something on facebook, or even in the press in the news. And what do you see ? You see an infographic that’s, simple right language that’s easy to understand. The point is very clear. That’s for the data consumer. They don’t have a lot of power, but there are a lot of those people. Okay ? Hey, name another one. The next one is the data actor. So this is who everybody is targeting. This is decision makers, policymakers on dh. These folks may have some domi. Knowledge may have a lot of durney domain knowledge, but they don’t have time. So even if they do have dana skills, the ability to analyze and understand massive amounts of data didn’t have time to do that. They have analysts who are helping them do that sort of thing. But very important people. They have the staff, they have the cloud. They have our policymakers decision. Is that right ? Yeah. Okay. Okay, david, just give us our remaining three. So, of course, to consume someone has to share it. So you got a date ? A promoter. So these were the bloggers he got you get the journalist. The advocacy for folks. This software developers, the entrepreneur. So these people are the ones who are, like projecting that data out there so that the consumer and the actor be able to see that. And then you have the analyst, which is very, very important a lot. You missed this one too. It’s, like now i have all these data is beautifully being shared out being read, who in a way is a domain expert, this staffer that’s going to be able to analyze and help advice, what to do with the data. And then finally, the researcher you got, you know, these air, the phd folks, these are you know, i was talking about like jin ho was their learning officer, that comet and hilton foundation she’s a researcher, and we recently did a site visit nairobi, kenya, for one of our grantees, shopko shining hope for community and they have rich, rich data they’re collecting around there, committing kibera and compare, by the way, is the largest of informal settlement in africa and think about, like, a size of, you know, central park in a compressor that seven thousand people and there’s so much data that they’re collecting about the community and helping them with their health care and, you know, with an education and such and community services in the way when she’s taught dana, she was just, like, drooling all over it. But she’s, like, i want to do something that and she’s such an academic she just wants to, like, basically designed something around it. So these air, like the data modelers is with the academics of phd folks that will help let’s take the data to a new level. Alright, much so our audience is small and midsize. Yeah, non-profit twelve thousand. So we’re talking a lot of people there in small, small and midsize shop. Yeah, they need to identify which of these audiences they’re talking to some some may never be talking to to the researcher, right ? Or the or the data actor. They might not be doing lobbying, so they may not be. So you have to identify which audiences you’re talking to, right ? You guys hear me ? Okay. And your headsets ? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. I don’t hear myself too well, but as long as you hear me, ok, you have to identify who you’re talking to you and then okay, so so i guess we’re going to get through now there are different data needs different ways of conversing about data with data to each of these different audience that’s right ? You don’t have that, right ? Yes, we’re mapping needs and method to the five different audiences and the knowledge that they have tio and the time, right ? So i mentioned the policymaker. They may have some expertise. They don’t have time right on time, don’t time like the researcher. Whereas the researchers, like, get out of my way. Just give me the spreadsheet, all query my own database, okay ? And then also in the spirit of being totally honest, so they have to be honest with yourself who you’re going to deliver the data to, like. If it’s your board, it’s your board and it’s. Okay, you know, and some people are like, oh, this is only for one very specific orders and that’s. Good, you know, because they’re being very, very honest with yourself. Okay, very good. So let’s, start with the ones that are most likely for a small and midsize not to be talking. So certainly data consumer. Yeah. That’s your nose. Your nose could be your donors. I know you’re not calling your donor’s, maybe even just board members. Okay ? Data actor. Maybe it could be any decision maker that could be your board as well. It could be. It could be your boss. It could be somebody who is influencing budgets influencing programming. This is the person who has the power to make a change. So it’s therein you figure out which ones were going teo so they’re they’re in data promoter. That could be a journalist. Yes. Right. So that’s potential. The analyst remind me. What’s what’s the likelihood of a small mid size shot talking to the analyst sometimes yeah, for smaller medium non-profit portable. Forget it. Yeah, yeah. Bonem altum but scale that xero scales up now we’re not going right. We’re not going treatable, but let’s, just talk about it, okay ? I think what i think what’s different, though, for smaller midsize non-profits is that the people listening may be the ones doing the analysis themselves. They may not have a supper analyst. Okay. Yeah, and many came from currently hilton foundations. They get smaller foundation. And a lot of us were multiple hats. So someone might be liberta both, but yet, yet they still move every important. Okay ? They’re all in. Okay ? Yeah. All right. So what do we do for the data consumer ? How do we have a retailer to that audience ? Yeah. They’re a couple of key things. That’s. What we need. Yeah. So one is use plain language when you’re communicating to them, they may not know who you are, what you do, why it matters. Plain language is really key. Sometimes people get a little too marketing me. Sometimes they get a little too research. E you need to be able to say what you want to say in a really simple visual with some simple language like you’re talking to your friends. Yeah, we were at a dinner party. You’ve got ten seconds to explain what this is and what matter-ness schooling for. Graphic. That will do it for you or something like that, right ? Or even just like a data point point. Okay, we got to take a break. Tell us, for pete’s sake, think of the companies you can refer and start asking them that’s the first step. Well, actually, the first step is watching the video. Then you start referring the companies and talking. To them, you’ve heard the testimonials from the charity’s. You’ve heard the testimony from the companies. It’s. Time to get that long stream of passive revenue for yourself. Start with the video. That is the first step video. Is that tony dot, m a slash tony tello’s. Now back to courtney clarke and david mask arena from eighteen. Ntc what’s. The summary. Yeah, and a couple of that with something you mentioned visually could be motion. Could be a visual visualization of data. It could be a story. It could be a video that couples with the data because just it’s. Just a lot more impact for when you, when you when you pair it, but okay, let’s, start to make sense. Your data consumer is gonna be a lot more interesting story then your analyst or your research eggs ? Absolutely. And during our session yesterday, there are people in the audience who talked. We talked a lot about how we paired data with stories because the narrative makes it so much more riel, it elevates the people that are actually being affected by this data. So there were some great stories about that. Okay, okay. Back-up let’s, go to the well, anything else about the consumer ? I mean, this is this is this is probably our largest constituency. Yeah, so i think the other thing is to be clear about what action you want them to take because your data should support that action don’t just and and actually that came up from an audience member yesterday who said people weren’t being moved by the data and so that’s why they started pairing it with stories and once somebody gets hooked and they feel those heartstrings being cold or they feel that passion rise that’s when you gotta capitalize and be really clear what the action is, whether it’s donating, volunteering on asking for more information yeah, signing up for the male daughter, give us your new gives your email yeah, and think about the safety step back a little bit this like you have to identify goal, like whether you’re trying to accomplish with this data set and it would help you help you with to decide like what to share in how to share that welfare that’s always important place to start gold. What was the purpose of this, exactly what we’re trying to move people and then we try to move people to do and then be clear about exactly called. Okay ? That’s, right ? And the goal is the hardest part. Frankly, knowing the goal is the hardest part. It’s on so simple, but it’s like that ask why five times you got to get to the real root of why you’re doing this. All right ? We’re talking about our actor actor. Okay, refresh my recollection, who’s, this decision makers, policymakers, people who are going to make the change that you want, sir. Yeah. Okay. Okay. How do we talk to these people that data. So the format is briefings sometimes it’s in the form of a press release. They need, like, think about a policy maker who has a staff and maybe they have to vote on a bill or make a decision. The staff member is the one who’s calling non-profits calling agencies and saying what’s happening in my district around this topic. So being able to slice your data by topic and location is really valuable to these folks and getting this summary out and again the action. What ? Why does this matter and their actions going to be different than the consumer ? Usually you’re looking for a decision, a vote, something exactly what you want to say more about the actual, i think something that’s adjustable something that if you could package it for them, like staying here, the key takeaways from this a swell, you know, think of this, like, you know, you know, working the communications team. And, you know, we provide press kits for people. And if you could provided that, you know, so so they could easily digest and help, um, guide them through the decision making process, i think will be the key. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And i guess also keeping in mind you you may not be talking to the principal. Yeah, right, right. It could be a staff staff, something. Usually it is so it’s. Gotta be it’s. Gotta be so your your urine for always going through someone to the decision maker way don’t love that. Right ? Twice removed, twice removed from your there once removed from your data. Yeah, it happens. I mean, that’s what ? Any communication, though. Anytime you’re putting something out, somebody could take it. Andi at their own commentary around it. That’s what ? The data promoter that’s a that’s a benefit in a risk, right ? Because they could date a promoter could be multiplying. Your audience is your audience, but they could be putting their own message. They could be manipulating the data in a way that may not be true to it. But, you know, were you everybody has had, you know, that journalist didn’t get the quote quite right ? Yeah, you are taking over simplification exactly. If the press often has to do to make something interesting to readers, you know, put in a headline. Yeah, yeah, and the promoter should also think about, like, segmenting looking if they could do, like, a more targeted in a way, like, if they know specifically that they’re going to try to communicate. Teo, i think they’ll be the key as well. And you get to know your trusted data promoters, right ? You know, the journalists or the bloggers are the advocates who you trust, who you align with the messaging around. So identifying those folks or maybe you don’t know them and you do a little research and you find out who you are, where, wes, you need to know within your sector who the influencers are. Absolutely yeah, i get a little bit of research. Goes a long way. Yeah. Back-up how do you feel about the standard press release ? Since we’re talking about the audience of promoters, we’ll be sending it to either of you have, ah, opinion on press releases. Are they outdated there ? Some school of thought that press release is dead. But it’s it’s still being used is using it. You’re still using journalists say they ignore them. Yeah, andi, and honestly goes back to relationship building, you know, like in communications, that our primary key is build relationships with with journalists. So when our press release passes through their deaths, they’d be able to, like sick. Oh, let me take a look at this and then dig deeper into the story for us. Just a little more let’s. Talk about building a relationship with a journalist before you want them. Tio, take some action for you to write about you in to quote you on that day’s breaking news. Yeah. How do we build that relationship when we don’t have a need ? But, you know, we want to be in front of the person. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like i just it’s a good old fashioned relation building, you know, you have called them, reach out them email and called, you know, like you have no agenda, but i mean, this marketplace exactly you often cover way. Have coffee, exactly. What a concept. I mean, like, i’m also part of communications network conference, just another communications based non-profit unconference and a lot of journalists attend that and it’s a great opportunity, this plate, this form and ten is a another great form to meet people like i would add to that you need to be you need to understand that audience and you need to be curious about they have their own set of requirements that they’re trying to meet. They’ve got an editorial calendar there. Boss has told them what topics to focus on. They’re looking for. They need they need to youto help them connect the dots. So maybe don’t start with the ask, understand what they’ve been working on for the last month. What stories ? What topics ? And then being able to which, which, by the way, does not mean ask them what have you been writing me out ? It means doing your research before you do the outreach, so that you know, so that, you know, you’ve shown that, you know, you show that you’ve taken the time to know what their beat is exactly not just asking you what do you write about lately ? Well, it’s in the paper buy-in there dubai it’s on it’s, on the site, in the research, and then and then what are you working on next or what’s ? The story you’ve been dying to write that you haven’t had the chance to there’s always a good answer for that and there’s a great conversation starter, especially like imagine putting yourself in their shoes, you know, like someone just roundly wants to have coffee with you, but you have no idea who they are didn’t even do any sort of research like and, you know, you have very, very busy schedule, and you have multiple crowdster headlines like we just need to remember they’re people tio don’t waste their time any more than you would waste. Teo spend the time with a potential donor. Exactly ask them what you’re worth. You’re not gonna ask them things that you want to know already write, write, write what is it about our work that he loves ? Well. I’ve been giving to you for fifteen years, i think it’s, probably in my e-giving history, you know, don’t waste people’s time exactly, but but it is important to build relationships with exactly these influences. Okay, i would add to that there channels are largely on social media. If you talk to any journalists, they spend all their time on twitter. So if your twitter gene is not great it’s time it’s time. Learn what hashtags there using. Follow those channels, see who they’re following. See what they’re talking about. A great way to do research on also how to start to engage early on, even if it’s just observing. Okay. Okay. Very good. Okay, so i want you. I want to spend more time on that. I want to check my mike. Want to make sure that everything is good here. Okay, a little insecure about the way i sound. I don’t know. I sound you don’t sound good to me, it’s. Not okay to you, though, right ? It’s ? A little soft. Like i can hear myself. Really ? I could hear myself, teo. You don’t hear me. According to richard it’s. Not as clear. Yeah, in-kind okay. And give. Myself a lot more volume. All right, now, my too loud. Ok, it’s. Good. Allright. Thank you. Time for our last break. Hoexter give quote, i compared a bunch of companies in my search for it hoexter donate company and text to give is the best hands down. They have b been beyond helpful. I can’t imagine anyone doing this better exclamation mark end quote that’s lauren bouchard from global commission partners in clermont, florida. Satisfied ? She is with text to give you will be, too for info text npr to four, four, four, nine nine, nine. We’ve got several more minutes, and here they are for map your data to your audiences. Let’s, continue the analysts. Right. Data analyst. Refresh our recollection. David who is this ? So this is the data expert this’s. The staffer that’s or consultant ? That would help be a read data. Okay, and analyze it for you, like they be in a foundation. Now. I like the way i sound better. Okay ? Like they’d be a foundation program, officer. It could be. Is that an example or no, i’m not necessarily. I mean, it could be a learning officer for the foundation meeting the one. Who’s like analyzing all the learning and data sets. Ok, he could be a data manager, you know, within an organization. Where would you ? Where would you put a program, officer out of foundation ? Someone who’s evaluating your grant proposal. Where ? Where would they fit in these audience ? Most like, i mean, it’s a little bit of both between the consumer and the actor, to be honest with you, because they’re both a decision maker. So they’re going to read the data and they’re also going to get this just like, okay, this is how my program is going and here’s how i’m going to act upon it. And here’s how i’m gonna adjust my strategy with it. Okay ? Yeah. All right. So, let’s, go back to the analyst. How do we, uh, david ? You keep going. What do we do with this ? How do we talk to the analyst with our data ? Go. No. Gosh, just give it all to them. Honestly, rod, they love him. They loved it. They love spreadsheets there. Said if they see a string of numbers, imagine like matrix type of thing. They’re like oh, my gosh, this is habit. Okay, okay. Yeah. It’s that simple ? Well, they have, i would add that they usually have the domain a knowledge. Do you think of a policy maker ? They haven’t education expert on staff or they may have an expert in international relations it’s that person who knows the domain quite well and feels comfortable digging through the data and furthermore to add to that, too is like if he providing which your goals and what your strategy is for and what they’re trying to provide the otherwise they’d be able to help you got guide you through the breeding process say more about that ? Yeah, what shit a little bit, so think of him like, you know, like, if i’m like, if i am se the heather communications in the foundation and i’m like, i’m gonna talk to a data analyst we’re trying to accomplish x can you help me read through this day that what types of data sets can leave first collect and what’s up days says comey can provide so they’ll be able to accomplish that goal, then they were able to narrow down because otherwise they could they could. You stand in any sort of ways, but if you provide some sort of direction or gold. They’re able to, like filter things a little bit better for you. Okay, yeah, very good. Really good. And our last left audiences the researcher buy-in courtney yeah, the researchers are get out of my way and give me this red sheet they the like they may scan through your infographic, your visualization, your query tool. But really, they’re going to build their own query tool. They’re goingto grab that they’re the ones who are in sequel making pivot table like they’re doing all of it. Okay, we have jargon jail on twenty sequel i think people will know, but i’m going to pivot table. Alright, excel itself. Okay, sorry, i’m taking a data analytics class so i’m learning this stuff, so i’m excited to be able to talk about it just dropping, dropping top, but, yeah, i imagine you’ve got an excel table that is so large that you can’t open it x l can’t open it. That is what these researchers are are working in and they’re very comfortable working in and they’re the ones who may even be collecting data as well as analyze sing it for themselves, so think of it like a like a layer deeper than unless they got analysts who may rely also some visualizations. And of course, like a deep amount of pressure. But these guys are like they’re just like neck or forehead, deep of like numbers and data, and they want to do everything themselves. Yeah, yeah. So one one important thing here we have worked on a number of data projects and for non-profits or foundations any group who wants to attract many of these audiences, the keeping with researchers is you have, like, the get data page or sometimes we’ll put it in the footer and it’s, like, just download the excel spreadsheet because i keep saying it, but you got to get out of their way. Just give them what they want, okay ? Okay. We have, like, another minute and a half or so do you have tools ? And, uh, in your description, you mentioned choosing the right data tools. Any tools we can introduce briefly that you like, i mean, to be honest and this is like, tio, you get off being out of keeping it will be really hash tag riel here, please place if you’re old website have google and alex installed. I mean, you’d be surprised how many webs are out there and smashing non-profits believe that twenty nine, twenty nine percent of them are using do or not. Okay, okay did not have google and licks and police bare minimum do that and they said, like have i think the fun ? Nothing is like have goals, you know, before it was like before you venture into the day the world ? Yeah, there is there’s a great study that every action did called the state of non-profit data. And you can it’s from twenty sixteen. But it’s a great read a page i recommended. Okay, we’re gonna leave it with we’ll leave it there without recommendation. All right, all right. They’re courtney clarke, managing director of user experience at forum one. And david mask arena digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. Courtney and david. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure. This interview along with all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you for being with non-profit radios coverage of eighteen ntc next week the buy-in bitches getting buy-in from your leadership. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing toe online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Bradunas cps dot com by tello’s, credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream. 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Nonprofit Radio for February 9, 2018: Your Online Giving Plan

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Joe Garecht: Your Online Giving Plan

Change is a constant in the online space. What does that mean for your fundraising plan? Fundraising consultant Joe Garecht shares his wisdom.





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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’ve endured the pane of glass a tricky if i had to speak with harry words you missed today’s show you’re online giving plan change is a constant in the online space what does that mean for your fund-raising plan? This year fund-raising consultant joe garrick shares his wisdom on tony’s take two lose track of time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna i’m a slash pursuant radio and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us i’m very glad to welcome joe garrick to the show. He is president of garrick fund-raising associates. He has nearly twenty years of experience helping non-profits build donorsearch sta mes to increase their fund-raising he was founder of the fund-raising authority, providing online fund-raising training before consulting, he was an executive director and the development director. You’ll find him at garrick tw dot com and he’s at joe garrick and he’s on non-profit radio welcome, joe garrett. Thanks, tony. I’m really, really glad to be here with you today. Thanks for having me. I’m glad you’re doubly glad. That’s cool. Thank you. Thank you. Um, okay, let’s, talk about online. We got a good amount of time together. This space, as i said in the intro, is always changing. But how do we, uh, how do we adapt? Yeah, it’s a great question and it’s one that, you know particularly bedevils small and mid sized non-profits because there’s a ton of information coming at fundraisers about online fund-raising it comes from what they see, large organizations doing it comes from what vendors are trying to sell them, and a lot of times it comes internally. I can’t tell you how many non-profits i’ve worked with where the fundraisers say to me, hey, i was talking to a boardmember and they said, we’ve got to be on blank and blank is usually a social media platform or ah, blogging platform or a crowdfunding platform. Okay, and so they’re kind of getting it from all sides. And so one of the one of the biggest things like right up front here that i want to say to non-profits is, um, kind of relax about online fund-raising it’s important, but just like every other kind of fund-raising it’s important to develop a plan and a strategy for your online fund-raising and to implement it and give it time toe work, you know, a lot of non-profits i’ve found feel like they’ve got to keep up, you know, every new thing that comes out, they’ve got to keep up with, you know, they’ve got ad, they gotta take bitcoin donations, they’ve got it beyond another social media platform, and the truth is just like every other kind of fund-raising this is fund-raising it’s a process, you need to develop a plan, and you need to stick with it. And then after you give it some time to run, you contest and iterated, you need teo, but it’s, it’s, knowable and it’s doable for every non-profit stick with it long enough to toe do, in fact test and and see if there’s if there’s traction among your constituents, i mean, you’re not going to know that in just like, four to six months that’s, right? That’s, right? I always say you know, develop a plan and give it, you know, at the very least a year so that you have enough data, enough contacts with your donors, with your prospects, with the network as a whole, to really see where it’s going for your non-profit again, it’s, just like, you know, just because we say it’s online fund-raising doesn’t mean it not still fund-raising, you know, non-profits wouldn’t, you know, launch a they wouldn’t launch a capital campaign and give it a month, and if they don’t have, you know, a certain percentage of gifts dropped the campaign right away, they’d carefully consider whether or not they were ready to run a crowd i mean, a capital campaign, they develop a plan for it, and then they’d implement that plan and on lee after they’ve implemented, would they be able to really just make decisions about changing that plan and it’s the same with online fund-raising need to really think it through before you dive into a new strategy or a new tactic, and then you’ve got to give it time. And and also you really need to make sure that your online fund-raising strategy works with your overall fund-raising strategy so many non-profits have limited bandwidth in terms of time and money. I mean, rare right is the non-profit that has too much band with all it never happens. So you have to make sure that you’re making wise decisions because everything that you’re doing online, it’s time that you take away from offline and everything you’re doing offline is time that you’re taking away from online. So you have to kind of see where those where those tactics strategies fit together in your overall fund-raising plan. Yeah, and we’re going to talk a little about the offline, too, because they do need to align. What do you do with that? Boardmember or ceo that says, we need to be somewhere can can the existence of a plan help you and be sort of a defense and say, look, we’ve got a plan, we’re executing, you know? What can we say to that person who was above us that says, we gotta be on this new this new ah shiny platform? Sure, yeah, i think your biggest the biggest tool you have is a fundraiser foran executive director when those ideas come at you is a plan. Now, if you’re developing the plan because you’re getting those ideas, then you may have a problem because now that’s all for today? Yeah, why isn’t idea and that playing but if you if you take the time to develop a plan ahead of time about how your non-profit is going to pursue engagement online, and if that plan has phases and deadlines and metric and, you know, testing and looking at maternal investment and it really just is a good plan and it makes sense, then you’re able to, you know, take that to your boardmember why usually like to say to boardmember xero first of all, that’s a really interesting idea. Thank you so much for being think, you know, for thinking about this for our non-profits top of mind that you’re generating these ideas, i want to let you know i’m definitely going, we’re definitely going to consider it right now, we’re in the middle of our online and he’s been playing online fund-raising plan for the year and were, you know, at band with capacity, and we’re going to implement this, and at the end of the year, we’re goingto look at how we did and if there’s you know, if there are some things that are underperforming, and we think that this strategy will, you know, outperform those we’d love to take a look at it. So, you know, stay tuned, i promise i’ll report back to you at the end of the year, and then you know it, you know, an animal, so i hope that non-profit that you’re working at, you know, whoever, whoever you are, dear listener, that you are not in this situation, but if you’re in a situation where boardmember they’re saying no, no, no, you definitely need to do this this year, right now, then my suggestion always is saying to them, that’s, fine, we can do that, but what should we cut? You know, that’s the big question, what should we cut? We’re running at capacity in terms of band with so let’s, take a look at the fund-raising plan and you tell me what to cut out of that fund-raising plan to be able to fit this and normally that gets boardmember thinking more about the fact that while fund-raising capacity is not a zero sum game and it’s a world of abundance, you were fund-raising resource is and staff resources are your something certainly xero some game? Yeah, that’s i like that. Like that method of handling certainly give the affirmation that your your idea is meritorious, but where? You know, you said we’re in the middle of executing a current plan. Hopefully you don’t have that kind of micromanagement if we had many guests on, you know, saying that your board members or others senior volunteers, if you like, should not be micromanaging your you know, the day to day tactics that you’re that you’re executing, i’ll tell you what you were going, we’re going to take our first break, so hang with me, please. Great. Pursuing the field guide for data driven fund-raising it’s, the latest resource on their listener landing page now at tony dahna slash pursuing to radio there’s so much data available to all of us. It’s overload. So what you gonna do with it? The field guide is comes in to make your data less daunting. What’s in it. They’ve got five high level steps that you can take quickly to translate your business objectives into actionable data. That’s, that’s manageable real world case studies showing you how some other non-profits are using data, in other words, do some benchmarking and learning worksheet with some conversation and thought starters to help you your team. Maybe even some of those key volunteers board members find the right focus to begin a data driven culture. It’s the field guide for data driven fund-raising tony dahna slash pursuant radio let’s go back to joe and your online giving plan, and my voice just cracked, too. How are you still there? And i know you are, joe, all right? Yeah, well, i was just mentioning the micromanagement. Anything you want, you want to be among the countless guests who have said that you should not be allowing your board members to micromanage tactic like that. Yeah, well, obviously, i concur. And i would i would say again that a planning process and developing a plan is your best defense against that. And i were talking about online giving today, but just, you know, i’ve found that developing an overall development plan fund-raising plan for your organization and if you’re a smaller midsize organization actually, going through the step of having your board approved that plant vote to approve it, hopefully lead by the board chair is sometimes a way that you really can, you know, provided defense against that because then you can go back and say what we were all on board with this plan is we’re going to execute the plan as as we, you know, as we all agreed, as we got the buy-in yeah, we get that board. Buy-in okay, right? So as we’re looking at our our our plan, how do we figure out what’s the best mix for our organisation? Of course, there’s no, no universal formula, how we figure out what, what fits us best. What mix? Sure, and you’re right, there’s no universal formula for online fund-raising but the closest we can get to a universal principle for online fund-raising right now is that email is the most effective method for online fund-raising now, that’s not to discount the impact of social media were crowdfunding or, you know, or your website, they’re all important, but email is the only knowable and really active medium that your organization controls. You know, we’re in a situation where when you’re posting on social media, first of all, you don’t own the social media profile the social media site does and that’s been proven by the fact that, you know, when you, when facebook first started out, if you were a non-profit on facebook or a company on facebook and you were, you know, you had followers, the vast majority, then we’re going to see the posts that you put up right now, you know, that used to be remember that remember that time? Yeah, and that mystery companies and non-profits fuel hoodwink you probably remember facebook was getting people to buy advertising to get likes on their page, as opposed lynx clicks to their links with the idea that if you got people to like your page, they would then see all the other content you put up essentially for free, you know, once you’ve got that buy-in and now now, you know, before the latest algorithm change, they you know, facebook was only showing you were posted less than ten percent of the people who liked your page unless you’re paying for advertising and that’s going down again because of the latest algorithm change. So so clearly you don’t control you can’t control the volume and pacing of your messages to donors on social media. That’s true of every social media site, unless you’re paying for it, your website’s, kind of similar, like i love when donors come to our organization’s website that i’m working with, and click that donate now button, but most donors aren’t going to do that, and if they don’t do that, then unless some using, you know, expensive retargeting advertising tools of paying for a car for advertising on other sites? I’m i don’t know who’s coming to our website, i don’t know who’s stopping by if they don’t taken action. Yeah, andi so that’s kind of passive as well. Email right is the only active mediums that a non-profit controls. If you have someone give you permission to use their email address for your email newsletter or for other communications, they’re going to see your messages. Almost everybody in the united states certainly checks their email address their primary email address almost every day. Oh, it’s, hundreds of the stats are like we checked, like like one hundred twenty five times a day or something, you know, right it’s just beyond me. Yeah, and particularly because a mobile right everyone’s looking on their email on there, you know, and so and and how do they check it, they skim basically, if he doesn’t land in the junk folder, they’re going to see your name and the subject line, which gives you a fighting chance of having your email open and so sabat i always advised, but i’m building a new online fund-raising system for a non-profit my advice to them is funnel everybody as many people as you can do everything you can to collect that email address, because then you are in control, you’re in the driver’s seat. So, you know, your original question was, what is the mix? The right mix for? Non-profits and i would say that for most, almost every non-profit the right mix is ah, hub and spoke system where your website is the hub, but the purpose of that hub is to collect email addresses from all the spokes, which is all of the places that you will have a presence online, whether it’s paid or earned or social. Okay, you said, you know, once you have that email address, you’re in the driver’s seat, but that’s with the with the qualification that you’re you’re adhering to the permission that the person gave you in terms of what? Subjects they want to hear from you about if you’re sophisticated enough to be asking when and how often but you want to keep to those to the parameters that the that the potential donor has given you absolutely, absolutely and so for, you know, for more sophisticated non-profit not only is it, you know, you know, the ethical thing to do to try and segment somewhat and determined the volume and the messaging, but also is really effective. Fund-raising right, if i, if i can determine by asking donors and tying their responses to the email address what they want to hear about how they want to hear from me, how often they want to hear from me that’s going to make our fund-raising program more effective, but for every non-profit you know the goal of collecting the email address, you know, what i kind of said was you want to collect email address, but you really want to collect permission to use it, right? You can go find email addresses, you come by list, you can do all this other stuff that’s, unethical, you know, in some cases, particularly for-profit businesses, it may be illegal or, you know but but what you really want to do is focus on getting permission and easiest way for smaller non-profits to get that permission is by signing people up for an email newsletter by signing people up to get your your non-profits email newsletter and other updates is usually the way we on brother and other communications is usually the way we try and freeze it and that’s broad and if that’s a starting place, if you’re more sophisticated than you contrive segment further, right, right? Based on topic and as i said, maybe even frequency they’ve even time of year. I’ve seen questions. Yeah, on that can come later to when you khun survey later on, once you’ve i mean, if you’ve got there, if you’ve got their permission, and if you have the wherewithal to to execute on the segmentation, you might survey your donors, you’re not even just your donors, but survey your your the people that are accepting your communications and ask what their preferences are. Absolutely, andi, assuming you have the capability to adhere to them, you know you alluded a couple times, teo spending let’s talk a little about that how do we decide whether we should be spending on, uh, what i’m thinking primarily facebook, twitter? Sure, sure. Well, i mean, obviously there’s a there’s, a lot of benefits, two advertising on those platforms facebook in particular has a ton of targeting tools where you can really i mean, it’s a segue mentors dream right? You, khun really dahna drill down and really heavily segment you were you’re you’re advertising audience, you can say you wantto segment people who are thirty five to forty years old who live in indiana and who follow a certain, you know, a certain would have liked a certain page that’s really, really powerful the key, as you know and as any you know for-profit market or nose, the key is figuring out the return on investment and really trying to get your per click advertising spent down as low as possible, first of all, and i’m not, i wouldn’t say there’s a universal agreement with this, but my strong recommendation and on properties there’s really only one crew action you want to be paying for on facebook, and that action is getting people to click over to your website, right? I i don’t i don’t think it makes sense anymore to pay for like, i don’t think it makes sense to pay for other actions. I want to get people to click on links to my website to come over to my website where they can do what, where they can sign up for my email news longfield email drive him to that home. Yeah, but i own that connection. So your goal if you’re if you’re deciding to spend money on social media, is to get the cost per email acquisition is really what you’re trying to do as low as possible, and you know they’re through testing you really can get that down. You can certainly get the cost per click to your website down into the ten fifteen, twenty cents per click range, maybe lower, depending on what you’re targeting and then figuring out how many of those people sign up for your email newsletter. So i think that’s the, you know, the really the only consideration with online from a fund-raising perspective is really, you know, with all nine hundred advertising his return on investment now bigger organizations can afford things like i talked, you know, i mentioned earlier, which was like a retargeting. On bacon, you know, that’s, those ads that follow you across the web, you know, you could you look up, you know, non-profit radio and then you’re on another website and all of a sudden there’s a non-profit radio ads on that website and it’s, because you’re being targeted, you’re being followed buy a cookie that’s, you know that that impact your return on investment, but it’s really something that’s reserved two muchmore advanced organizations who have more money to spend on the testing because with all nine fund-raising really the fortunes in the follow-up it’s your spending money? If you’re paying for online engagement, you’re spending a certain amount now with the goal of making money on the back and and the way you’re going to make money on the back end is not by getting people to constantly, you know, come to your web site and clicked one ofthe donate now buttons it’s by using email to stay in touch with them, to solicit them and to try and build a path for them to become a regular giver to your organization. I admire that you kept yourself out of jargon jail by defining retargeting thank you, i was i was i was chomping at the bit to get you, but it was short lived because you immediately explain what we targeting is those those those ads that yes, you did you’re you’re free of drug in jail. Those ads that i consider annoying, i guess there are people who like them or if even if they don’t like them, they’re obviously successful because their companies making aa lot of money filtering adds segment in ads. Teo individual people i know, i know it’s a lucrative business i find i find that stuff annoying, um, creepy, but can be lucrative. Yeah, it is on dh it’s both i think i think it’s both on and then the other one that i didn’t mention our one hundred facebook. Of course, there is the possibility of google adwords and we’ve we’ve covered this on the show a couple times you could search that phrase tony martignetti dot com and we’ve had detailed conversations about how to take advantage of the ten thousand dollars per month that’s hard to spend that much money but it’s up to that maximum that google provides in an ad free adwords if you want to. And you could do much, much smaller campaigns. You don’t have to spend ten thousand dollars, but we’ve had guests talking about that and that’s another that’s, another possibility in the spending category, but it’s free because it’s tze a grant from google um okay, let’s. Um let’s bring in some some coordination between online and offline, as we’re thinking about what belongs in our plan three offline i’m thinking of is face-to-face meetings and u s mail. How do we how do we coordinate thes this with our with our online? Right? Well, good, great question and it’s two great questions you’re living me with thank you if you don’t have to keep it out, that is not necessary, you know you’re you’re a guest, i’m not going to cut your mic off so it’s not necessary to keep saying i got you the the you know again, i don’t want to make a i don’t want to make a sweeping generalizations because every non-profit is different, but if in general right the the most there is a hierarchy of fund-raising ass strategy’s where and it and it tends towards the more personal right so a in person ask. Is more effective than a phone ask a phone ask is more effective then a ah direct mail snail mail asked a snail mail ask is more effective than an email asking email ask is more effective than like social media ask now that you know, some donors don’t want to get a phone call or don’t want to get in person, you know, meeting and they want to be selected by the mail and that’s great, and we need respect what our donors you know what our donor preferences are, but in general that’s the hierarchy and if that’s the hierarchy, we need to respect that and realize that, as with all things there’s, ah, there’s a curve in terms of our time, and we should be spending more time on the more effective strategies. Now. The good news is that one of the reasons direct mail’s effective because it doesn’t take much time to talk to lots of donors. Your your average gifts size is going to be lower, but it’s relatively easy emails, even easier right it’s emails and even easier method your average gifts eyes is likely going to be lower than your direct male average. Gifts, eyes and so, you know, the things that go into your decision on your strategy for the year are go where the money is, what, you know, what kind of time do we have to invest in those things? And where our donors i mean that’s, really? Another question is, you know where, where our donors, if you’re a small organization that happens to have lots of donors scattered throughout the country for the world, then in person meetings aren’t going to be, as, you know, big a possibility for you, and you may have to rely on you no more on the mail in the morning. I don’t know. Not only where are they physically, but where are they? Virtually what platforms are they on? As we talked about, you know what preferences do they have for communications? And where do you find the bulk of them? You know, you may have more fun on facebook, but you’ve got you’ve got a lot more activity and engagement, riel engagement on twitter so you need to be spending more time there. I and the other just one other thing i wanted to put a little spin a little little point to is, of course, another factor with direct mail is the cost postage printing, the collating however you do when you do it in house, you pay somebody to do it, you know, there’s there’s a much bigger cost to direct mail. I’m not denying that it’s it’s ah it’s up there, you know, it’s it’s right below face-to-face ass, i’m not. I’m not quick challenging that, but just the cost factor of that the u s mail. Oh, yeah, and that’s, why return on investment is the biggest consideration when you want to direct mail testing intestine, right? If you don’t have the capacity to test and then the money to invest in testing, you shouldn’t particularly direct mail. You should not be doing prospecting mailing because you know it doesn’t. It doesn’t make any sense. I think you know, in developing your overall, you know, strategy email, you know, for most organizations, the email newsletter is the backbone of the donor cultivation and stewardship sabelo more about that. You alluded to that before, when you were talking about the hub, trying to get people to your site. You want that email address newsletter is the is the center of your communications plan. It sounds like for you, right? Yeah, that that that is true. You know, email emails are super popular for a couple of reasons. One is because they work. I mean, they’re away for for non-profits that would never get a monthly snail mail newsletter out the door or have any other way to connect with their donors monthly or even quarterly in a method that’s just cultivation and stewardship. That’s not on aska truitt for them to stay in touch with their donors on a regular basis, it gets to the donor the donors who are interested, we’d those newsletters, those who don’t can just delete them. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s effective, but but it’s also the backbone of most donorsearch altercation zsystems because of those other things we mentioned it’s cheap it’s, easy, it’s, easy to do. You know, it’s. Not like the old days where it was real hard to create a good looking email newsletter. You got services that constant contact in a weber and male chimp and you know you’re donordigital based all of them send out beautiful, you know, emails at a really, really cheap costs far less. Obviously, than the cost of direct mail, so for most non-profits it makes sense that that the backbone of your entire donorsearch altum ation system not just your online donor cultivation system, but your entire donorsearch conservation zsystems his email communication, it’s, it’s email newsletters again, you’re still gonna want with your certain segments of donors have much more personal contact that they didn’t want to invite them to cultivation event you’re going to want to talk to them in person, you’re going to want to go out and see them. You’re gonna want to send a personalized notes, but but email the email newsletter the email cultivation is something that ties almost all of your donors together. Okay, um, let’s, let’s, take a break there. Okay? George arika okay, sounds good. Regular sepa is this testimonial quote, this is my first year and we’re growing non-profit regular gps was completely attentive and gave the impression as if they were right next door when handling our review engagement. Even though we’re in a different state, they made me feel like we were the only client they had that’s like that. And like the whole thing, they were able to walk. Me, through starting up our accounts to finishing our yearly statements, nothing was too small of a task for them to handle their always available for questions and concerns customer service was exceptional and was greatly appreciated. I received great advice and guidance for better business practices. This is talking about the cps for god’s sake. Listen to this gushing thing, it’s it’s incredible! That was my part that i didn’t write that all from a professional while feeling supported and genuinely cared for in the process. Wagner stupas really stands out as a partner, and i could not be happier with the results and quote that’s from the small cancer research non-profit on the east coast, supported and genuinely cared for are they limo drivers, wedding photographers, makeup artists, caterers, florists alright, you hear the wedding theme? Are they pre op nurses, interventional cardiac surgeons, home health workers, chaplin’s, social workers, none of the above their just wagner, cps but they’re more they’re more than cpas, trusted advisors to their clients. You’re supposed to change our two firms every three years to get that fresh perspective, you want the advice of a firm that goes broad and helps you. Beyond just the numbers. That’s them right beyond the numbers. You hear me say it, talk to them. You know you can talk to at wagner. You coached him? He’s been on the show. He’s been guessed twice. I’ve had lunches and dinners with heat right here in new york city. You can speak to him, he’s a live person. And ah, well, the people i meet for lunches and dinners for the most part. So, you know, get to know them. See if wagner cps can help you beyond the numbers. Okay, i’m gushing, but ah, i like them. I like eat. I like i like wagner, wagner, cpas, dot com now time for tony’s take two. I was on a cruise last month, totally disconnected. Totally offgrid or just, you know, don’t you want to modify it? Just offgrid i was offgrid and it felt luxurious. I lost track of time. There were there were blocks of ours, ours strolling by with my ties on drum punches. And i did not know what time it was the only reason i had to ask people. And i’d asked me because i kept my phone in my room the whole time. Ah, it zoho i wouldn’t show up for late, late for lunch and dinner breakfast. I was on track, but that, you know so my advice can you get a vacation where you’re not only napping? You’ve heard me talk about the beneficial impact of naps, but when you actually when you lose track of time one of those, what time is it? Vacations or a piece of vacation where you just you’re unconnected and you don’t even know what time it is. Okay, that’s, my video is from st thomas and it’s at tony martignetti dot com. Now, let’s, go back to joe garrett and you’re online e-giving plan. Thank you, joe garrett, um, i need to be here before you were really, really glad now, you just now now, it’s, not so much anymore. Just clouds the middle of the show. We’ll get her energy back-up oh, jeez, you’re in a slump. Cutting mike off. I’ll tap dance myself. I got i got playing giving god again gush with plan giving for all right. You’re not in a slump. I know you’re not, um by way you got a nice radio voice like you got a basic kind of voice. Thank you. Yeah. Um, how about should we that’s? Just something that i’ve talked to guess about? And i’ve heard different philosophies. What about converting online donors too? Latto offline donors, first of all, should we mean with all the things that you and you’ve just said should we be? And then if you think we should, i’m not. I’m not suggesting that’s what? One answer or another. But if you do think we should how do we do that? Let’s, start with that threshold question. Should we even be thinking about doing that, right? Yeah, i do think that you should try and convert all flight vote. Well, let me let me go online online to all i would like to offer you. Yeah. You you should be trying to move those online donors who won tohave offline contact with your non-profit to offline status. Now, there’s. A reason for that is because you have muchmore there’s much more ability to cultivate and steward those donors in a more personal fashion. If they’re offline, donors, very rarely will will a one hundred percent online donor moved from small gift to major gift to plan gift all online without ever talking to people face to face her on the phone or at an event with your non-profit and so i find that it’s, beneficial for the move donors over took to be offline donors, but again, ok, only if they want to move over because not everything. There are plenty of donors today who like a little bit of anonymity, who like a little bit who liked who liked to make those donations online, who like to read your email newsletter, look atyou on social media, but not have that personal that more personal touch, so my suggestion would be yes, now the trick really is to moving your online donors offline. Is tio seat as a system? You know you need to build a lot of non-profits crying kind of haphazardly one off, like they’ll do the price. A certain tactic to move those donors offline, maybe it’s doing some well screening and doing some calls or sending out some snail mail letters and and then it will work or it won’t work. And then, though, so it’ll be discontented and they’ll move on to something else. If you want to move your offline, don’t order. Online donors offline you need to put a strategy behind it, and you need to treat it like you do kind of direct mail prospecting or other other real measurable types of fund-raising you need to measure what you’re doing and see if it’s working and if it’s not working, then you know, try something else, but you need to you need to put a system behind what what suggestions have you got for for it, including our system? Sure. Well, there’s really? Two the two primary ways that non-profits trying move online donors offline our events and mail. So, you know there’s there’s non-profits that have success, particularly if most of their donors are local, you know, in a certain region or certain metropolitan area with having donorsearch collectibe ation events were donorsearch dank u events or larger types of types of events, or a regular system of cultivation tours of the facility, things like that, and they invite their online donors. Teo, come and connect through those types of events. Obviously the vast majority of the donors are not going to do that, but the ones who do are weeding themselves out for you there segmenting themselves for you they’re kind of raising their hand and saying, i’m super committed because i’m willing to come teo to a tour of the facility, even if it’s building is a donor thank you. Event that’s an actual investment time and energy on the other the other way that non-profits try and move online donors offline is male. You know, they try and do a do a mailing fund-raising mailing that converts some of those donors to essentially male donors, and then they try and move the donors up with line that way through a traditional capacity screening and, you know, male donor engagement strategy to move, though toe move up, move the donor’s through the funnel who have the capacity to give mohr. I’ve seen non-profit set up six have had success with both strategies. Teo do the event strategy. Obviously, most of your donors have to be local. My suggestion is to test both of them to test both of those strategies, and certainly, if you have wealth screening tools there you can. You can bring those into play and the other, frankly, the other riel indicator of an online donor. Is the number of the amount of engagement they have with your non-profit how many times do they donate online? How many times today, you know, respond open your e mails, how many times today engage with you on social media? Those are the type of metrics that show that there really engaged with your non-profit online and maybe ripe for moving off line or even moving to another level of online giving, like monthly giving entering that recurring credit card doing occurring right, an example of that, it could be an example of a hybrid between online offline depending how you structure your campaign is giving tuesday you are do i have it right? Are you e-giving tuesday denier? I am ok, i want to give. Okay, i want to give one to give voice to that we’ve had folks on from ninety second street y and in fact, this year i’m going to try to have ah to like one in may and one later, closer to the event, but i want to give voice to the to the denier, deny your camp what’s your opinion of giving tuesday. Sure. Well, i’m a big fan of giving days. For non-profits i’ve i’ve seen a lot of success with e-giving days that air run specifically for a non-profit for a particular non-profit i’m a big fan of crowdfunding in peer-to-peer campaigns online, what i’m not a fan of is particularly and and the non-profits i work with are particularly small and on the small size of side of mid sized non-profits i’m not a fan of them using what are very limited resource is for those organizations on giving tuesday because of the sheer volume of communications and fund-raising campaigns that are going on around that day, i would rather them take all the tools that they would normally use to run a successful giving tuesday campaign, which, as we all know as i’m sure, the folks who have had on who have been successful with that, i’ve told you, it’s more than just a day, right? A lot of prep work that goes into a successful giving tuesday for sure, and i’d rather than take that and move it over to e-giving day, just for their non-profit where there, what? They don’t have to compete with all of the many messages that their donors are getting, i don’t know if you’re like me, you probably are because you’re in the industry, i, you know, on giving tuesday and the days before leading up to it, i get i mean, dozens of e mails from non-profits about giving tuesday social media is packed with messages about giving tuesday and, you know, there’s two sides to argument, of course, that that buzz is going to boost it is going to raise all the ships that, well, that’s a mixed metaphor. Yeah, but you get, you know, you know what i mean? Yeah, right. That’s the argument and for me, for the organization’s i’ve worked with who have done giving tuesday, i’ve found that the amount of time number your number of staff hours that go into rising above the noise, or getting to a certain level with your donors, with awareness for your non-profit for a small non-profit that that number of hours would be better put into other fund-raising methods and moving the e-giving the e-giving daito, another day away from giving tuesday so that’s kind of my take on it. Okay, good on jeez, that was that was that was quite a mixed metaphor, but buzz raising ships. But what did you come up with this nonsense? If i had an intern that we we do? I mean, it’s not like anybody writing this it’s just all for mei apologize. Um, okay, you mentioned crowdfunding menu. We were sort of following the same sequence you like you like crowd? Well, wait, before we get to the generic crowdfunding. So what would you like to see people do on? Give me some client examples, perhaps if you like, of their own individual giving day? Sure way. You know, we have organizations that i’ve worked with where, instead of, you know, instead of doing on giving tuesday, we need we pick a day that makes sense with the organizations with their editorial counter with their market encounter with their fund-raising calendar where we name that day for that organization. You know, we call, you know, maybe it’s april third is, you know, killing off your children’s alliance day or that’s very presumption we stop that’s that’s very presumptuous of your client’s, isn’t it? You got it. You got to get out there and shake it up. You don’t have you don’t have a mayoral proclamation or anything like that, you’re just doing it on your own. It’s a great idea. We haven’t done that yet. But that’s a great idea. Yeah. Get the mouth that the mayor of philadelphia behind you. Yeah, yeah. So we we name that as our day, and we build a campaign message behind that day. And we just as with e-giving tuesday or with a with an online crowdfunding campaign, we set a goal for that day with a riel hans will outcome for that goal. You know, we say something like we want to raise twenty five thousand dollars on speak up day because we want to do x y and z we want to provide this number of scholarships or we want toe, you know, provide this number of warm meals, you know, hot meals to the homeless, and then we do all the normal things to build up to that day we put i like to put a committee behind it of people who, just as i will with a crowdfunding campaign. People who are commit to not only give that day right in the morning to show some to show some traction, but also who commit throughout the day send out an e mail to their network to be active on social media to really try and help us push it. Then we do a sequence of emails to our tow, our newsletter listeningto our donor base to prepare them for this day so that by the time the day comes around and we hit, send on the on the email that isa announcing that the day is now open, people are expecting it. People know that it’s coming, they’ve at least heard of it. And then, well, then we’re very active throughout the day. It’s, a one day crowdfunding campaign just like e-giving just like you’re giving tuesday. Sure effort is essentially a one day crowdfunding campaign except here, hopefully and that, you know, it’s not always caves, but hopefully really the only massive fund-raising messages that your donors are getting in the email and their email on social media and things that day are primarily from your non-profit yeah, it’s, your it’s your day. All right, i got it. It’s presumptions, but bold. You’ve gotta be bold, but you gotta you gotta be out there. Okay. Um, what about what about the blog’s we’re talking about online? Ah, let’s. See? You know what? I’m going to let you ruminate on that topic for a minute while i take our last break. Okay, okay. Tell us. Credit card, payment processing. Check out the video it’s at tony dot m a slash tony tell us goes through the process of businesses switching to tell us and remember how you are going to get fifty percent of telesis revenue. That’s passive revenue for you each month. You thought i was just i had lunch friendly. We’re talking about passive revenue, you know, into into retirement way. Get passive revenue some he he rents hubei’s properties and rinse them. I pay rent so i don’t have passed a revenue. But no, i don’t pay rent. Um, but you pass a revenue it’s a it’s. A good thing. You know what it means, right? It means you’re not working for every dollar. It’s just coming that’s it just comes and it comes routinely. That’s what happens a cz long is the businesses with tell us for credit card processing you’re going to get fifty percent of what tell us earns from that business times the number of businesses that you think of in your community ah, there’s a hundred percent satisfaction rate among among their non-profits and the businesses that are referred to them. Remember, if teller’s can’t save them any money, then you are going to get two hundred fifty dollars. But that’s, the that’s, the short term and that’s a short play. You don’t really want that, it’s. Not likely because tell us is probably is going to save the money. Otherwise, you’ll be writing a lot of twenty fifty dollars checks. Right? So you don’t want the short money. You want the passive revenue indefinite that long tail. Tony dot m a slash tony tello’s. Check out the video now, let’s, go back to joe garrick and wrap up with your online giving plan. Okay, so what homework did i give you? What did i just ask you to ruminate about? Do you remember what let’s talk about block? There we go. Yes. Much better than i am. I know, i know. Okay, uh, should we have a block to it? Is it is it essential anymore to have a blogger? Well, so in my mind, having a quote unquote blogged is not essential. It can be. It can be an important part of what you do but it’s not essential to have a separate page our link on your site necessary that says block what is important, whether it’s through your block, which is probably the easiest way to do this or through your sight as a whole. It’s important to have your your sight be updated regularly and to be something that makes donors want to come visit fresh, fresh content, right fresh content. Yet most non-profits have essentially a static brochure up with a donate now button and you know if they’re advanced, maybe they have a video at a newsletter sign up box, but it doesn’t change, and i always come non-profits your website can be in a really, really crucial part of your cultivation and stewardship stress, but it’s only important it’s the hub, right? If the hub is where the heart is weak, then the spokes are going to loose. Exactly exactly people don’t think that your website is that metaphor that was that was a that was a good metaphor. I’m sorry, but that was an example of a good metaphor. If they don’t think it’s informative or entertaining or, you know, compelling, they’re not going to visit it, and then it doesn’t work. So one of the mean, the easiest way to keep fresh content up on your website is a blogger there’s nothing. I hate more hearing more from non-profits then when a fundraiser says something like while we can update our own website, right, we’ve gotta get our web design team where we got that that’s crazy. You mean that there was a time when if you’re one of your website, to look nice, you had to do that, you had a have you had to make it such that you couldn’t update it yourself, but with all the modern back ends like wordpress that are available, there’s no reason that someone at your non-profit can’t go onto that website once a week or every other week or once a month and post something new and there’s a ton of things you can post there’s donorsearch stories and staff stories and clients, stories and things about your mission and things about your outcomes, things about events coming up and, you know, there’s, you know, thought leadership pieces. There is no end to the amount of things you can put up there. And what stops non-profits from doing that is they think that they have to write essentially a white paper or, you know, a master species every time they post something, they’re worried that they have to be fifteen hundred words and footnoted and it three hundred, four hundred, five hundred words up on your website that’s compelling that’s decently written that you mean, frankly, we talked about george, and earlier in the show that three of jargon that’s, you know, not technical that’s written at that sixth or seventh grade level that’s just up there that’s information, you know, informative or entertaining that gives donors a reason to at least check your website occasionally and that’s what you want. You want to give him a reason to keep coming back, so i’m a big proponent of like you said tony, fresh content up on that web site on a regular basis? What if we are hearing joe garrett say, oh, my god, three hundred, four hundred, five hundred words, i don’t i don’t i don’t think i have the time to come up, even with the low end of that three hundred. Well, i’m thinking about hiring, uh, what about what about outsourcing? Some of this what’s your opinion of getting an outsider tio provide that fresh content for you? And maybe maybe that’s not even on ly blogged, but could be facebook, twitter, your corporate page on linkedin, instagram, etcetera? Yeah, and you and you certainly can do that they’re you know, they’re certainly plenty of vendors out there we’re going to do that free it’s still going to require your time because what you don’t want to do is have a vendor who’s putting up kottler who’s, sending your content that that essentially could apply to any non-profit that sometimes what happens, right? We we get content from the outside from an outside vendor, and really, if you change this non-profit name out, it could applied any non-profit or it’s basically just rewording your case for support over and over again, or something like that in orderto and and i don’t want to suggest that that the way all vendors operate, but if you’re going to really get great content from an outside writer there going to be great at writing, they’re going to try and immerse themselves in your non-profits mission and what you do, but no. Matter what you do, they’re still going to need you to tell them about your latest outcomes your new programs you were you were, you know, help you collect your help them collect omer stories, clients, stories, things like that. So i would say, you know, if you’re if you’re thinking about, for instance, starting a block and you’re really, really concerned about the amount of time it’s going to take, i would say start from the real real low and meaning try and make a commitment that once per month just once per month, you’re going to come up with three hundred words right? On three hundred words less, which is less than a, you know, eight and a half by eleven piece of paper of one sheet that you’re going to come up with three hundred words to put up on your on your website and then then see how it goes if that works that maybe you could expand it a little bit if that’s not working. If you find that you don’t have the time in the band with, then investigate, you know, outsourcing it, but i would i would suggest, given it a shot first. And realizing again, it does not have to be we’re not talking about something that has to be perfect, it doesn’t have to be the greatest story in the world. In many cases, it just has to be something that goes up there that at least somewhat compelling to your donors and supporters. Another possibility for content is curating the content of others that’s that’s related to your mission or related to your community, you know? Ah, you know what interests your constituents, you know, you confined content from other people and, you know, call it a round up, i say we found on the found on the web and list the board, you know, bullet with links to, like, two to two or three things and there’s a lot of great content out there from others that you can use to supplement your own right. That’s exactly, i mean, and you’re right, there’s a lot of great content from from other people there’s also a lot of internal resource is that might be willing to provide content. Now, obviously, as a fundraiser, you don’t want to be in a position where you’re loading work onto the program’s staff, but you may have program folks who are excellent at writing about their experiences in the trenches that’s a green, compelling piece of content you may have boardmember who loved to write and who would love nothing more than to write a write an article where to interview a donor or two, you know, given explanation, you know, provide a provide a story about a kn event that you held that they attended. So there are a lot of ways where, you know, you’re looking for essentially, at a minimum twelve pieces of content a year, and if you can farm some of that out, then maybe you as a fundraiser are only writing a piece every other month or every third month because you have other re sources that are helping you create that content and ah, perfect example, tony, is what you said, which is to around up, post or a top ten, you know, top ten tips post, you know, if your if your organization that’s working in, you know, in healthcare non-profit maybe you’ve got a tip post you can post about how people can stay healthy in a certain respect so there’s a lot of different ways to go about it. You have ideas around personalized video for cultivation. Now we just have about two minutes left, joe garrick so you know you, teo constrain yourself, but what advice do you have around personalized video, right? So one of the new ideas one of the more innovative ideas that i’ve that we’ve used and that i love, is using personalized videos to stewart and cultivate, particularly stuart, you were mid level donorsearch if their donors out there who were giving it a level where he would like to offer them more cultivation, but you don’t have the time or and it doesn’t make sense, go out, meet with them. One thing, some non-profits air doing is a development director or a board number will sit in front of the computer and record thirty second videos using the donor’s name, personalizing it to their gift, thanking them for their gift and then emailing it out to them and it’s a way that you could do personalize stewardship. You can do, you know, fifteen or twenty of these videos in an hour and send them all out in the same amount of time it would take to meet. With one donor. Awesome. You did that in just one minute. Okay. Okay. Andi, you have clients doing that successfully? Yes. Yeah, very successfully. And and donors tender. I mean right now, it’s kind of new nobody, not many organizations. They’re doing it. So right now, i would say get double. In fact, in fact, we’ve had clients where significant a not insignificant number of donors actually call. Call the person who sends them the video to say how much they liked. The video, you know, leads to a whole different level of interaction. Not surprised. Awesome. That’s a great tip. Toe end on he’s. Joe garrett, president of garrett fund-raising associates, garrick dot com. And at joe garret joe garrett. Thank you. So, so much. Thanks for sharing. You bet. Thanks, tony. My pleasure. Next week, build your grantmaker relationships. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. 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People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. 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