Tag Archives: nonprofit leadership

Nonprofit Radio for May 26, 2017: Your Grants Team, In & Out

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

It’s not your 7th grade spelling bee! We Bee Spelling produces charity fundraiser spelling bees with stand-up comedy, live music & dance. It’s all in the video!

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

 

My Guest:

Diane Leonard: Your Grants Team, In & Out

Diane Leonard returns to share her wisdom on your internal and external grants teams. Who needs to be part of your inside processes and who manages your outside relationships with your funders? Diane is president of DH Leonard Consulting.

 

 

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Vertical_Color
View Full Transcript

Transcript for 341_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170526.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:40:47.047Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2017…05…341_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170526.mp3.238871777.json
Path to text: transcripts/2017/05/341_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170526.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into proto porphyria if you brought to light the idea that you missed today’s, show your grants team in and out. Diane leonard returns to share her wisdom on your internal and external grants teams who needs to be part of your inside processes and who manages your outside relationships with your funders. Diane is president of d h leonard consulting on tony’s steak, too. Charity registration we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com what a pleasure to welcome diane leonard in the studio, this time not calling from upstate new york, she is gp c grant professional certified, and she has been a grant professional for over a decade and the president and owner of d h leonard consulting and grantwriting services, she has secured over thirty four million dollars in competitive funds for clients from all three levels of government. And private foundations. She’s, the co host of grant chat, a weekly twitter chat for grant professionals she’s at diane h leonard. And the company is at d h leonard consulting. Dot com. Welcome to the studio this time. Diane. Yeah. Thank you so much. Great to have you glad to be here now. Grantspace schnoll certified. Did the the accrediting association take my advice and change that to certify grantcraft sessional since the last time you were on, you know, i talked with the board, but we haven’t addressed that that specific matter yet. So still gpc grant professional sort of for the time being. But it’s, just the time being we’ll you know, tio r b i brought out the light. Okay, it may be on the right. It may be coming, possibly on the agenda. All right, i just sort of five grand profession. Ok, but your grandpa deshele certified for now, so we’re sort of extending our conversation from, like, the last minute of last time you were on or so way just got into your teams and we were talking about the internal team. But what? We just barely scratched it. So let’s start with your internal grants team? Why is this not just the the, uh, responsibility or might say burden, but we’re on the upbeat side, we’ll say, why is this not just the responsability of the the grant writer? Whether he or she is employee or consultant, isn’t it? Isn’t it just there? That’s what you got this person for, right? So you’re right that the grant writer, the grant professional, they are there to write grants so it sounds like it could be a solo sort of activity. But the reality is you can’t write well and competitively without information from your grantee. Mme. So whether or not you call it a grant team that’s up to you, we don’t care folks ever self identify as a member of a granting right, but finance needs to give information and vice presidents of programmes have to provide the logic models or the details, the design of what you’re going to write for. So if the grant writer was really, quote unquote, just writing the grant, would that really be what the organization wants to implement? What’s going to be in line with their strategic plan, right? We’d be writing in a silo. Okay, now. Yeah, clearly. So we’re getting information. By the way. Ricky, i see you have your d h leonard consulting shirt on. Of course, when you go home without it, which is not just like a land’s end, you know, straight button down. It’s got it’s. A blast really got it’s got ruffled down down the front. Very nice. We’re going were very fashionable. Is going to picture on facebook? Wait the mic flag out on everything. So but not just your average, you know, land’s end corporate shirt. Not anymore. By any means. Well, thank you. Very nice. Your daughter rebecca’s here, rebecca, you like this shirt? You have? You have one of these? Is that you? Have it? She doesn’t have one. You don’t have a dish that while they have special running shirts that on the back say right, period. Sleep, period. Run, period. Okay, we got those for the whole team, so ok, we’ve got a diversity of apparel. All right, so this is you putting land’s end to shame. Very good. Much, much nicer than than your average. Okay. All right, so, yeah, clearly. So we got to get information from other people. All right, so you don’t care if we call him the grants team or not, but but, you know, how do we, uh, how do we get their buy into this to the larger process? I mean, i saw the cfo gives you some numbers, you know? Is that all you really want? I mean, don’t you want we want a little more? Yeah, real engagement. So how do we start to get there by into this process that they don’t feel is their responsibility right now? Well and sometimes it’s, not that they don’t feel it’s their responsibility, it’s that perhaps based on how things have been done before, it hasn’t dawned on them that they could have a better process, a better success rate if there was a more thoughtful, proactive collaboration within the organization. So when we go into an organization and we ask the question, do you have a grant teen? According to our grasp tool, it is less than half in fact it’s closer to about thirty five percent say yes, what’s a grasp tool. So i’ve jargon jail sorry you’re right. Totally grasp tool. What is this? Grasp tool is a proprietary tool that my team and i developed that measures grantwriting nous so there’s twenty great readiness elements and one of them is about your grant team. I can not about what it’s called, but do you have that group? Okay, so based on the data assessment, esso and that’s helped us to understand that said so it’s about thirty five percent have a grant team. That means they’re so sixty five percent. No, right? So when you walk into a new organization and you talk about this idea of a grand team, sometimes the grant professional looks that you don’t kind of holds their heads like they shake their head? Nope, just me write other times the organization is ready for because they’re all non-profits air fighting for dollars, right? There’s a really good thoughts, so they’re trying to figure out how how they can increase their grantspace king success just even a little bit right? A few extra success percentage points or an extra forty fifty one hundred won one million dollars, whatever they’re trying to increase the revenue. So the idea that by taking their resource is they already have the people rearranging them a little bit differently to share for grant process so that it has a better return on investment, usually by some pretty good traction quickly. Ah, but the question is always well, what do we have, like a lot of meetings? What is it? Does it go on the organ chart? What does that mean for me? Right? And so what we look at as a grant team structurally, we recommend that it would be a group that annually plans the calendar agrees on what our priorities are for funding. Who are our funders. We’d return to that’s big picture, so once a year, you’re doing that together. The grant teens then looked different for each application, sometimes depending on the size of an organization. So that’s, where we can really start to improve the process, reduce the stress and increase the likelihood for the funding for the yes. All right, i like the idea of getting some early successes, like, maybe there’s, some low hanging fruit that the team can rally around a success on early success of and from from i guess i should say from yeah, the award letters went to start a grant team idea that first award letter solidifies the process for sure, long term, yes, every reason to think. All right, all right, let’s, go for a break, and diane and i are going to continue talking about your grants team in and out. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Diane. When i introduced you, i i used the bio that was back from last time. You were on in in january and said you had raised thirty four million dollars among lots of organization. Is that still an accurate number? Got any higher than that now? Since we last spoke, it is close to thirty six million. Six gets getting close, but it was never that fluctuates all the time. Million dollars difference. Alright, well, it always fluctuates up. I mean, you never having grantspace clawed back or no, no, you’re way kruckel excellent. There. So bios added eight. Thirty six, nine dollars. All right. And also you mentioned your team and your team goes in now the only team member i know you have his rebecca who’s here. Rebecca’s. How old? Rebecca’s? Eleven. Eleven eyes. Rebecca party your team or the whole families apart of the team for me. Okay. Last shirt. Every everybody wears this. Sure. Everybody gives me coffee. You’re ten number. You’re giving out shirts on the corner. Your team, your team member. Okay, now you have grants other grand professionals. We do. Have other grantcraft specials and and use your your provide. It was a group. No grass grasp, not growth. That’s a scratch. Okay, group. Okay, um it could be grantmaker be gropes if you get a no in coming close to you know what groups lose. Stick with craps. You could you it’s actually an acronym. So krauz looks great, it’s. Good, but let’s like see gp gp. Alright, i will take it under advisement. Tp gp is my recommendation. Okay, um, all right now you say fund-raising not a solo sport, basically. No. Yeah, not fund-raising not in grants, right? We cannot be silent, right? All right. Let’s, let’s talk about some other people who should be involved. We mentioned cfo. We might come back to him or her. Who else needs to be active? Actively helping this process. And they were going to get into how they’re actively helping. But yes. So so, depending on the size of the organization, often we will see the president or the ceo be a part of the annual the big picture granton process, right? Not individual applications, necessarily. But that big picture annual plan a plan which you and i talked. About last time, yeah, listeners could go back and could search tony martignetti dot com and your grants flan or diane leonard, you’ll see the all the times that she’s been on. Well, this’s second, eso you only looking for one other, but, yes, we talked about the grants plan, right? Last time you were on. All right, so the ceo certainly could be involved, right? Absolutely. And so having, though, whether it’s, a vice president of programs or other program leadership that are focused on the actual implementation and service delivery, having them have a voice at the table be an active participant in that big grantee mme annually and on those individual applications that so a voice that carries a lot of weight in the grant team because they’re driving what the applications contain. Yeah, all right. Let’s, let’s, talk about the the talk about the program’s staff for the program that you’re attempting to get funding for correct people carrying out those programs. All right, so what are they bringing in that people who are not taking advantage of this are missing? Sure. So the program’s staff, sometimes they’ll be like, oh, i already have a logic. Model for that program and there that make grantwriting jump up and down for joy if you don’t have to write a logic model, right? Um, they might already have a great activity work plan for what? That looks like implementation wise over the next year or oh. Yep, absolutely. I know those collaborative partners. I can help you get the letters of support, and so they make the asked for the letter? Not necessarily you. They know their clients that they’re serving better than anyone so they can help decide. Okay, we’ve got a limited character count. What are the best demographic stats that we should talk about, or what are the barriers in that limited space? That cheese? We’ve got a long list of barriers out of the dozen. Here are the two that we really should talk about. They can help you narrow that down. So that then we is the grant writer. The grant professional can tell the story in a stronger way. Okay. You mentioned the logic model. Of course. We all know the logic model what’s a logic model. So ah, logic model is a well, i guess i shouldn’t use the word logic. Again is a thoughtful way that you can demonstrate visually your program designed so you start with your inputs from way clients flow through your program. Great. Yeah, i usually think about it, like a conveyor belt is the way that i described it. So you take your got three metaphors going dellaccio logical flow. We’ve got a conveyor belt. What else durney uses their shoot is their trash. You what else? All of those could sure alright, you sick with your comfort the conveyor belt. So because the what happens is that grantmaker zey have a wide variety of logic model forms that they use. So having a logic model in your head that only looks like one thing as a design is really tricky because you’ll united way. We’ll have a different one than a federal government agencies. So that’s why you need to have a general understanding of logic models and how you use them in program design. Right? So if you think about that conveyor belt idea, you take cubine puts your clients your staff. Your resource is set him on the conveyor belt and they has the conveyor belt starts. It moves through, i think. Of ah box, where all the magic happens, but they had very about moving the conveyor belt. Rebecca you’re following this is conveyor belt moving into a box doesn’t make sense for you, because if you could explain this to an eight year old and then i can get it, i can grasp all right, so so far so the conveyor belt and actually you’ve seen the movie like toy story or something. Where there’s all these flames shooting out of the box, but that’s where the activities air happening, the magic. So where you’re delivering counseling services or hiv prevention education or after school tutoring, right, whatever those services those activities are, and as the box of the inputs comes out, the end of the shiny box you can count on is coming on their belt conveyor belt. Most don’t mess up our metaphor. Alright, the conveyors coming out of the box. And you, khun now count how many people you served? How many after school sessions were held? Hominy caregiver education workshops whatever the case may be, but you can count them. You get your outputs and you can at that same time so well or my short. Term outcomes, right? And then a little bit further is the conveyor belt moves well or my intermediate outcomes. What were my long term outcomes at the very end of my conveyor belt? Maybe as far as i can see towards the horizon, right? Well, knowing all that detail is really tough for a grant professional to know about a program that they’re not implementing, right? So filling in i under you can understand the concept that detail that’s where those program staff members are critical. Okay, makes sense. Yes. There you go. You’re with me. Ok, thumbs up. Okay, i understand it. Yes. Now, um, what about the value of their value in? We’re digressing a little bit from the team concept, but but stories, i’m certainly program staff, the ones working with your clients, they’re going to have lots of stories, is they’re valuing in telling a story and individual persons story in a grant? Or is that really not such a good practice? It really depends on the specific type of application. And so part of deciding whether or not it’s important is looking at what the funders application looks like in their preferences, but the what? Is the level of detail. What is the emotion behind the story that a program staff member can share with you, it’s? Not just a one quick sentence. A little success story, but what can they really help build? So, in a federal application? Actually, there was just a great use of a story and that’s, not a place. You always see it. But we had a client that was able to articulate what it would be like for a rural, low income student that was entering middle school that had all these barriers to overcome and quickly in a paragraph walk you through what that student was experiencing. So you felt like this young girl or you felt like this young boy. And so as you got into the heavy meat of this application, your thoughts as the reviewer really grounded in what it was like, is that student right? So used carefully good, vivid storyteller. It can really draw that reviewer in as a grant writer is a great professional. What? I know enough of those details about what those clients are experiencing to tell that sort of story. It be tough. You would not know. Yeah. Okay. Um, now, i would think you mentioned federal grants. I would think that’s a pretty daunting looking package, does it? I mean, just the i don’t make you’ve done scores are hundreds of them, but i just think that it just looks imposing and threatening. Yeah, all of the federal grants federal grant application they are, but sometimes they’re short narratives. Other times, you know, like we’re working on now. One that’s, a thirty page single space that’s, some hefty writing. But, you know, with the right grantee mme it’s completely manageable, you don’t have to work crazy long hours. You don’t have to work all weekend. You don’t have to know out to your family for days, it’s some of those really big ones that don’t that are daunting to people as soon as they do it. The first time in the grant teamviewer sis their old way, they’re sold forever yeah, okay, i’m dying to get to the outside relationship with the funders, but we’re not there yet, so we gotta be going metoo stopping up on the inside because the whole relationship thing it’s excellent. We’re getting to it, we’re getting to it. Um all right, i guess that’s that’s pretty much exhaustion in the program. What the program people are bringing to you and the wisdom they have the on the ground boots on the ground experience that they’ve got that nobody else really has on. Certainly not the grand team or grant writer. Right. Okay, bring them in the europe program professionals. Um, who else? Cfo do we do we we, uh i asked you, who else? And then i tell you, yeah, that’s just the way the show goes and i run it. Cfo, do we beat that up? Is there enough that i mean numbers? What? But an application may ask for more than that if you’re what’s the state of your financial controls, right? And things like that? Well and so usually where cfo’s or the finance staff are involved, like, yeah, i fell out the budget or i review and i approve the budget. But when that happens, we find that if you’re not having conversations early on about how the budget numbers what’s the justification behind those, how does that relate to the design that we’re proposing? They end up being incongruent, we find inconsistencies then between what? The budget? Tells us a story on what the narrative tells us the story so there’s a little bit of ah, that you have to work together to really tell airtight story. So you’re consistent, and that s o there’s like chicken and egg conundrum in terms of the team and who goes first? Okay, once you have the input of both, who then whose responsibility is it, then? Teo, scrutinize this story and make sure that the numbers are in line with what the program people told us, right and that’s where the grand professional internal consistency okay to be like? Okay, all right, i hear which you’re saying this is what the staffing costs, but hold on, we’ve exceeded the allowable salary percentage of the total project budget by funder standards or, hey, it says that you can’t spend more than seven percent on evaluation, and your budget currently tells us eight point five. Well, eight point five percent of the total product budget is what it costs to do the designed evaluation. Okay, now we need to work together. Right? So those things come up and that’s where the grant professional starts to work on alignment between the two. Parties, the financial constraints and the program designed what is the best for the organization. Okay, cool. You give us a sense of how this team works together if we don’t call it a team. Um all right. Who else? Ah, who else needs to be involved if if we have them on our staff data evaluation? What? Anybody in interest? No one. That attention. Tio counting the client outputs, tracking success, tracking satisfaction. And that looks so different by title. An organization that it’s hard to say. You know, not everybody has a director of evaluation. Many, many don’t treyz but someone in the organization is responsible for those client databases for the education session. Workshop reviews rightto surveys somebody’s responsible. So who are they? Whoever they are, whatever title it is, they should be on the team because that data is critical for analyzing as you think about your next application. Did you think about your next application? Write what happened? What happened about this application we’re working on now for the applicator. If we have an application in front of us now, i want to be looking at well, what did you learn last time? What is? The data show so that our projected outputs are anticipated. Outcomes are in alignment with what we’ve been able to achieve before. Okay, so i need the staff person that was doing the data the last time the program ran, or for a similar pilot program, or whatever it is. We need them there with their data, knowledge, teau, help us run some numbers, is and figure it out together. What do we do for organizations that aren’t currently evaluating? Not measuring these important outcomes impact what do we do for them? So i usually will send them is their first bit of homework straight to the wk kellogg foundation. They’ve gotten evaluation handup book that’s on their website for free and it’s. Fabulous and it’s. A great way for groups to begin to think about what evaluation could look like for them. Okay. Do you ever refer a book now? That might be too daunting because we had a we had dr robert penn on he’s. Been on a few times, but the first time he was on and it was years ago. But he has an excellent book that people have quoted to me before. Called the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Yeah. That’s a good one. You know what? Yeah. Oh, you know. Okay, you just don’t assigned as homework to a client because they’ll say, what you giving me his two hundred fifty page book? I thought we were hiring you for the expertise. Why, yes. Feels good to be the book now. Yeah, but it’s got chapters on different methods of it’s a toolbox, different methodology for measuring impact and he’s. Very hey wants to call it. Impact, not outcomes. Some people aren’t too scrupulous about that. But anyway, measuring the good that you’re doing in your beneficiaries lives or whatever it is in the environmental, whatever. Because by chapter, a lot of different tools. Yeah. Okay. So you know that one? Yeah, s o the other thing we do is that depending on where they are, we have a lot of folks that we know that our great professionals and evaluators in their background and so will try to pair them with someone that could maybe walk them through some initial support or give them some ideas. Right? So that they can look at what’s happening. What could they do? What’s feasible for them? For evaluation? Alright, alright, but a good resource. Wk kellogg foundation. It’s a great one. Yep. If you search kellog foundation evaluation handbook it’s small it doesn’t feel daunting in that sense. Tto learn a little bit and think about logic models and what you could measure. Okay, now what do we do? Ah, it’s all that hypothetical. We’ve got a grant application in front of us that asks for measurements and we don’t have any. Should we not be doing this? Application we should really be asking ourselves, can we be competitive, right? We need to think we want the money, we need the money to do a good work, right? And so that measurement question if we don’t have a good answer, really that’s going to be a concern when they’re reviewing it when a grantmaker their board is reviewing it, you’re going to lose some significant either theoretical or real points. And so, as your stacking up against the other applications, it’ll be hard to get that yes, no, are there still applications out there where the the impact measurements are not asked for or there they’re not a priority? Maybe you can tell their apartment, i mean, is that is that still exist? Not all grantmaker sze will formally ask for it sometimes because they let you provide a letter of request of your own design. And so what happens is that if a group doesn’t have measurement is part of what they talk about all the time, it won’t naturally be what they think to put in their general letter, but for other groups that do think to talk about it, they’re going to stand out, right? So they’ll be more competitive in those general formats, but when you’re in all those online applications, the cyber grants, the found ints that grantmaker sze use most of those online zsystems you’re finding questions about measurement worded in a lot of different ways, but the vast majority have questions. Fountains. What is that found? Found in’t it’s on online grant application system like cyber grant. So it’s there’s a common core it’s, a common system that lots of funders use. They are? Yep. So there it’s. Not a specific common application. It’s a common online system. So the funder gets to customize their form using those companies. Oh, i see. All right, it’s. Just okay. Okay. Um all right, let’s. See, we got a couple more minutes before we go out for our midterm break, if you will. What? What are the professionals? We’d be bringing in that we haven’t talked about yet. So in some groups we see human resource is have a seat at the table for the grant team. You know what they contribute? Well, because like, fifteen years ago, they call personnel. Now it now all of a sudden they’re hr human resources. What? What? Is the personnel team the hr team bring so when you look at organizations that are heavily grant funded and they start to ask themselves, well, what percentage of staff are currently funded? Is anybody overfunded, right? Those conversations are riel. They happened when you’ve got organizations that are heavily grant funded and with designated grants. So, for example, we worked with an organization that had two wonderful adult day programs for those with dementia, great programs, and happened to be that the state that they were based in had a great amount of money for them, as did the county governments. And so they ran on different timelines and had to be very careful. Oh, and and by the way, there was black grandfather thing too. So they had all these sources that had to list excruciating detail about which staff for what percentage of fto eat keeping track of that. And what was happening with payroll in hr was an important part of the planning process. So it’s not always that they have to be at the table, but first, some programs for some organizations, you’d be sunk without him. Anybody else you want to bring in? Well, let’s see, we’ve done evaluation, we’ve done cfo, we’ve done program leadership data it and tech khun b a great need to know who to call, right? Because when you’re doing a big grant, you’re like, okay, we’re going out for the computer lab. I shouldn’t be the one out on google looking for computers to figure out what works because it might not get the network. So you’ve gotta have some of those players that you get to call the call the bat if there’s a technology component to your grant, right, it might not be the main purpose of it, but if there’s the technology funding needed, what are we going toe? How are we going, phil? So you fill our need? Yeah, we’ve got sort of like a designated hitter list, right? When the application calls for it, we’ve gotta have folks that know that they’re going to be on deck to help us. Not all the time in the grand team, occasionally, based on the application, okay, let’s not go too far with sportscenter. That was that when you just mentioned on deck that’s basketball, right? If you’re on deck, you’re coming in next, based at the buzzer softball, that’s a baseball right let’s not go to any further with no more sports metaphors on non-profit radio. All right, so where we at? Alright, hang loose while i do a little business, please, and then diane and i are coming back and we’re going to talk about the external team who is managing. I should say the team that manages that those external relationships with funders and your community so that is coming up first. Pursuant the archive of their webinar how to win at data driven fund-raising fund-raising fund-raising data driven fund-raising is up. It answers questions like what should we measure? That sounds from there. I think we’re having this little chat. And how do we make our dated? Actionable. You know, if data is a conundrum for you, as in the hypothetical little diane and i were just talking about or you just want to be savvy or about you like you may be. You feel you have too much data. What do you do with it? Well, how do you shift it out? That’s what this webinar is designed to help you with will help you with get control over your metrics. It again is called howto win at data driven fund-raising it’s at pursuing dot com you click resource is then webinars. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for millennial fund-raising this is a fun night out of spelling bee live music, standup comedy, dancing and making money for your organization. I need to raise more money. This could be the way you want to engage millennials in your good work. This could be the way. Check out the video at we be e spelling dot com now for tony’s take two. Cue the wagging finger have you got your charity registration? Have you got that off your to do list yet? In other words, are you properly registered in each state where you solicit donations, including grants? I can help you. Charity registration it’s part of my practice. I’ve mentioned it before that’s. Why his fingers wagging. I can get this done for you. Check the video at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony. Take two and i am with diane lettered and she is with me and her daughter. Rebecca is here also. Diane leonard gpc. The company is d h leonard consulting at d h landed consulting. Dot com and you’ll find diane on twitter at diane h leonard and i’m very glad again that she’s in the studio thanks for coming down where your upstate new york i forget where the rochester area no far, far, far upstate, eight thousand island or you’re all the way up your republic by the canadian border you you’re on a body of water too aren’t you would write on the st lawrence river lorts river that’s okay, alright knew it wasn’t on the great lakes. Okay, ron, we’re part of the great lakes system right at the end of lake ontario. Okay. And what is the town that you’re coming from? Clayton clayton, new york? Yes. How cold is it up in clinton now on ly a few degrees colder now. Oh, yeah, right. Because, well, we’re actually doing this in late april, and the temperature dropped, like fifty degrees or something. Doing yeah. Yeah, but the snow’s all melted. Okay, a lot this year. A fair amount of all right. Um, all right. We’re making the transition now we’re going to managing our relationships externally. Let’s start with the funders. But we also want talk about the community. Um, you have ah, you have a whole story about talking somebody recently, who’s who’s very dismayed about getting calls two days before deadlines. It’s true. So in my background, i have it was a grantmaker so i have my own set of skepticism about how people treat grantmaker xero programs program officer, right? It was it was a program officer for a statewide foundation, but it’s been a long time now and so but that background is part of why i was get on the relationship soap box, and i was sitting with the assistant director for the northern new york community foundation, and he and i were talking cause actually he’s writing a guest blogged for us for our firm, and so we were talking about it and said, it just it baffles me goes, i just was getting it yet another call we’ve got a deadline coming up on friday is the conversations having this like, and so they’re calling me, like, two, three days before, okay, so what do i want to put in an application? Well, okay, so luckily had a few minutes to talk, but what sort of application and conversation we’re going to? Have in two days, right? And he said, so there’s just non-profits are out there doing good work, and their website encourages conversation, right car does. What does it say? Call us. It says, please contact us and it’s got their phone number and it’s got their emails. I mean, it’s got to contact us for a minute, i think teo so they’re very open. They don’t demanded they don’t make it a requirement. We know some thunders. Do they say you must call us before so it’s an open invitation and yet still and maybe it’s because they’re caught up because they’re doing really important, truly important things in the community, right? All these groups are resources are limited and so it’s like oops, that deadline’s coming up. I should call them. And so he and i were talking about it again. And just what do you do? How much do you say? Do you make it mandatory? But his point was that it when you make that call last minute and he’s got a quote on the block post actually, about how you feel like an a t m is a grantmaker it feels very transactional like, okay. I need some funds ready versus having it be a true relationship, a partnership in making grants to create impact in the community. And so what we were talking about was the value of what he’s calling the next level gratitude so there’s like the quick phone call before to talk, but then once you get the grant or even if you didn’t, but you’re still trying to maintain a relationship to apply again later, where and how can you have contact that’s appropriate for that specific funder to keep the dialogue going? So, yeah, super excited that max was willing to write the post for us, but it’s not an uncommon story. We hear it from other funders when the program officer we all used to talk about that over lunch when we’d get together, right? Funders talk part of your grantspace lan include contact with the funders that are in your plan. What, i don’t know, two months in advance or how much, but but should that be part of, you know, make initial contact with this funder that we’re going to be approaching in two to three months? Absolutely so when we talk about that when we go back to that grants plan in the grants calendar. Usually when folks have a grantspace alan durney calendar that’s a little upstate. You upstate, you know durney from upstate. I’m from buffalo originally, anyway, so, yeah, i can’t help it. Okay, you don’t have to. I’ll just call you out. Okay? Thank you. So the i can now conscious of self conscious. Okay, so that thing that device that you use clique has basil data dahna be outlook based. Yeah, nothing has deadlines on it is what folks will normally have. Right? Right. Ok, maybe some reports for those current funders. Hey, what about putting relationships on the counter? Right? It’s a critical piece. Now, this we’ve gotta, like, have a huge ass trick. I’m making one in the air. All right? Not all grantmaker is allow communication pre award. They have no capacity or no preference for it. Okay, so we’ve open that up and we have to address the elephant in the room. Not all grantmaker sze will talk to you because they don’t have enough time or they have too many proposals and too many contacts that even with a dozen staff right, they couldn’t handle it so all right, we agree on that, right? Okay, but you know, you’re gonna know because you’re researching this funder because you wouldn’t have put them in your plan if you didn’t know anything about them. Wayward certainly wouldn’t do that approach. The gates foundation? Yeah, great. All right, so we’re going to know we’re going, we’re going to know. So we’ve learned through our research whether or not we can even talk to them. If we’ve done that, like in the example of the community foundation, i would have seen the clues. The writing’s on the wall. Hey, you’ve got staff names. I’ve got phone numbers, we got e mails, they’re offering to talk. I should talk, right? I should put it out there and like you said, gosh, two months before a deadline. That’s fantastic, even a month, two days before that’s, right? Not a good idea, because now you’re also tipping your hat to the thunder that you just started thinking about it. It didn’t. That was not a good thing. I presume they wouldn’t take anonymous call. I’m calling from an organization, but i don’t really say which you know, but this is what we do they probably wouldn’t care for the call like that. Exactly. All right, all right. So you’re going? Yeah, you’re typically exactly you’re revealing that you’re not organized and you’re thinking about this two business days in advance, right? All right. That’s bad. All right, who? Wei don’t have a grantspace sessional let’s, say small and midsize non-profits may not have a grand professional on staff who initiates this call, and we don’t have the benefit of d h leonard consulting helping us who’s through initiates the contact. Yeah, so the answer is that it depends right? It’s sort of a strength spaced decision who likes talking to donors who lights talking to major donors at special events, look around your organization and say, gosh, our executive director loves to talk to people about the programs and okay, so maybe that’s your answer could be that you’ve got a major gifts officer, so you don’t have a grand professional, but you’ve got a major that’s a great person to make that outreach might be that as you look around and you start to think about who’s, connect to who sort of the six degrees of kevin bacon idea, right? You’re like, oh, actually, wait it’s the program’s staff that sits on a collaborative group with the grantmaker they already know someone, they can be the point of contact, right? Backed up with talking points by the development staff by the grantmaker but so it doesn’t have to be one answer. Now the fallback can always be a development director or a grant writer if you have one on staff, sure, now i will say i have another ass trick making another footnote, yeah, go with the footnotes. This one has to be well has to be a dagger, because otherwise the footnotes would be the same. You can’t have two footnotes with asterisk that’s thiss one’s a dagger mary-jo okay, if you have an external grantcraft sessional or an external fundraiser working with you, it is my strong recommendation. They should not be the one reaching out on your behalf to build a relationship, because we can’t answer all the questions right grantmaker zeal have questions if you’re really having a good dialogue grantmaker will ask a question because you’re engaged in a dialogue, right? We’re not just talking at them or vice versa, and when that happens and the well intentioned external fundraiser or grant professional who’s like i will have to talk to my client get back to you now. I say that as an example because when i was a program officer, that happened more than once. That doesn’t bode well for the organization either, right? So, yes, you’ve got this great resource, but you need to be able to answer my questions like pick up the phone now, we gotta book a second call right now, but the questions all right? What? What if there’s reluctance? Because the the ceo or development director i love talking individuals, but now i’m talking to institution, they’re going to ask me questions i can’t answer about about accounting, and they’re going, they’re going toe. What do you have to get over that kind of nervousness about talking to the institution, the person, the person who loves talking to the person or the individual or the couple? Yeah, so we end up coaching a lot of folks that are they’re a little altum it about making that call because you’re right? It does feel different and that there’s a little bit of a power differential that doesn’t always exist with individual donors and the reality is it’s actually my colleague heather storm bug of just right solutions. You’d love her. You should have her on the show. Okay, okay. Making a plug, she’s great. But she’s got a line that is, people grant to people, not proposals xero and so the grantmaker tze and that’s what? The story is about it’s about grantmaker so grantmaker zoo are run by people and its people making the decisions right? So, yes, it seems like it’s all this big institution. But remember that it’s people trying to do good work, they have a mission aligned with yours, right? They want the same general thing thatyou d’oh. So to try and strip away some of that stress of oh, this big structures are reluctant. Okay, on dh parallel with that. Our corollary? What? I don’t visit a corollary algorithm it’s a serum i don’t know is that we do want to have a relationship with these funders like they’re people. I mean, because they are staffed by people. So i mean, this is the whole purpose of having on next team to manage that external relationship. You don’t you don’t just call ah, an individual donor on december twenty ninth because they haven’t made their end of your gift yet. You know you’re in touch throughout the year cultivating, right? So don’t do that to the institutions the institutional funders carry on a relationship because they are staffed by people, right? Yeah, you don’t want to just send in the obligatory grant report on time for the deadline. Okay, hold on. I want to put it again. Another application. Okay, i’m going to buy fifteen thousand. Right? Vicious cycle there’s. So much to do in between that we build it and what’s wrong with picking up the phone and talking to the thunder and saying, you know, we had a i mean, just like sharing anecdotes with a great week this week or, you know, this month this month we were disappointed, but here’s, what we’re doing to turn it around i mean, can you have conversations like that with with an institutional funder? You can. So it depends again on preference and capacity. So is you get to know the fun durney like, okay, they have staff. Oh, they like to talk. Oh, they only like email, right as you learn there. Preferences we worked with a small funder in central new york, not a lot of staff capacity loved promoting grantee work and success on social media, not what you’d expect, but it’s fantastic, right? So as you learn those preferences, you can think about how you’re going to share updates during the year, okay? The media team just did a great job. They’ve got a facebook post, we’re going to share that and tagged the thunder, so now they know what’s happening or i’m going to write a hand written note, right? The art of hand written notes go a long way with grantmaker just doesn’t do with individuals means it’s an individual’s going to open that envelope and read it it’s going to make their day right? I got to hand written notes from different folks that attended sessions recently that i hadn’t met. I instagrammed each of them the day they came in because i was so excited right now because you’re like as a funder who something different, then what i normally get and they’re treating me like a person. Yes, even though i’m representing an institution, i’m still a person. I’m the advocate for this organization when they submit their next application to our board. Right? Is that how it is now? Program officer works and he should get something that looks promising. They bring it to the board of the foundation. Or maybe they’re bringing up the chain. But eventually it gets to the decision makers. But the point is, the programme officer is the advocate for your application. So why not have them on your side? Exactly? It’s, exactly at in the process, you’ve gotta look at it, even in government work. While they might not be able to. Not the peer review were there, not the scoring source can have great relationships with government staff that will help your process. They’re still your advocate, but still are. And they can help you navigate the process and be stronger overall. All right, all right. I wish i i feel like the relationship building part of ah, grants is duitz egregiously overlooked mean, badly overlooked. No, i’d go with egregiously. Yes, not even just badly. Yeah. All right, all right. We gotta go out for a last break. Diane. Of course going to stay with us. And they’re never going to move from from the funder. To the community, let’s. See what you see, what that relationship is about. Hang in there. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy, tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation talk. Trans sounded right, that’s two tony martignetti non-profit radio and i am his knees. Carmela and i am his nephew, gino. Carmela and gino, now now thirteen and eleven. I think we record that last year. So their twelve and twelve and ten, uh, love that. Okay, the well, the point is, someone’s gotta manage the relationship with our funders, right? Someone’s got to get to know their preferences. They prefer social or email or phone or everybody loves the handwritten note. We agree on that, but somebody’s gotta manage this relationship right? And so someone has to be the central. You need to have one person that’s managing the relationship, but usually where the great writer, the professional right shit somebody’s going to make sure that they know what’s happening with all of them that everyone’s aware of who’s talking to who, when and where and what are you trying to accomplish? So that in case somebody’s out of a special event or at a conference that everybody’s prepared what conversations are in play? Okay? And how about in the community? You you what you want, you want communications to be good in our community, to sure and so there’s a few different ways that plays out because you don’t know in your community who knows whom? Especially in a lot of small towns, right? Everybody’s connected so that casing clayton it is there having not grown up in a small town, i’ve learned quickly incestuous. Well, i wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t have but just know it’s really it’s everybody’s looking like oh it’s. Only two degrees of connection to anywhere you want to go in northern new york is your local paper have ah, section like talks about diane’s aunt is visiting from the big city rochester and she brought along with her two kittens and you have that in your in your paper are thousand islands on which is truly just st lawrence river paper. Instead, it has a section where if you take your paper to wherever you go, when you take a picture, you get your picture in the paper so there’s pictures as you can, and we’re going over got to bring my copy to new york city. You can’t in-kind burghdoff xero of non-profit radio total are all right, but it’s not quite as closest know your aunt is visiting for the week. Not quite like that, but the point is that you just never know how close the connection could be. You’re talking. To someone in a collaborative meeting, and all of a sudden you realize that it’s, somebody who sits on the board for is on a review panel somewhere, right? You just never know where that connection’s going to play out to a grantmaker and i got news for you that’s the case in new york city to treyz things air compartmentalized so you might be part of a grants panel or or organization devoted to social services. Okay, so now we’re getting pretty narrow, ok? There are a lot of social service agencies in new york city, but maybe somebody in from one of your funders is part of it, and you don’t know it because you don’t know the bio of everybody there, you know? So that does not only the case in small and mid sized towns, new york city can be very compartmentalized. Um all right, so we want to be talking up are funded programs in these forums? Is at the point well, we want to be naturally looking for collaborations naturally looking for spot where we conduce do-it-yourself cause when you think about how the community khun play out in your grants, trat, egy and why you want to have a team that’s thinking about it and then maybe kind of reporting back to the group? It could be that we’re thinking about okay letters of support, foran application or letters of commitment, right support. We’ve got our cheerleading letters, all right? Our senators and our dignitaries funders are like, god, okay, that’s, great that’s, nice, but what they really like are those letters of commitment, the organizations that are partnering together, and they’re like, okay, this is my role, this letter says, i’m going to do x y and z, right? So having the relation in ships in place with those agencies that you would ask for a letter of commitment from those relationships aren’t usually held by the great writer. It goes back to our grant team internally, we’re talking about our program staff again, or our executive director whatever, um so it’s, a really important way that we engage community everything about community as clients who are we serving? Having testimonial letters is either required or appropriate for some grant applications. Well, again, it’s not going to the grand professional that’s usually making that ask it’s going to be the staff member. That the client trusts say, hey, are you willing to write a short paragraph for us about your experience, you know, and these letters of support and certainly the letters of commitment are not going to be coming two business days before you’re your application deadline, they take time? Yeah, way have to be developing these relationships right in advance and asking those that we have relationships with foreign advance. So you’re not running around the city you’re driving all over the county trying to collect letters no good. Plus, you got a writing dead line two and you got a midnight submission deadline and it’s a big disaster. All right, all right. Um, so does that belong on our grantspace lan mean, the attendance at these community affairs? Well, if we think about what’s on the kind of what we go back to our conversation earlier a few months ago, about with the grants plan, i don’t know it always put community interaction onto the plan, but having the team recognize what their role is, their role is applicants application specific for sure, but the things that they do in between applications, having them understand that when they’re out in the community, they’re having these interactions. Those are things that come back, that they might not know exactly which application is going to be relevant to. But they should be stockpiling that information, thinking about the relationships they hold thinking about what advisory groups they sit on or hey, you know what? Actually, this organization we partner with a lot. I think they were talking about this federal grant too cash. I should talk to them before we consider applying. What if we did something collaborative instead of both trying to apply for the same thing, right? That knowledge will naturally bubble to the surface in your internal grant’s team. If they know how and what they should be watching for externally with community we have just like a minute and a half or so before we got to wrap up. How do we how would i know this time flies right now? How do we find the right places to be going in our community? Just like in a minute? Yeah, i would say look at where you are naturally don’t force it. Look it where? There’s collaborative sze. Where there’s? A social service agency gatherings or environmental? Group regional conferences or work groups? Look at what you’re naturally doing and that’s where you need to be. How can you then use those existing relationships for the betterment of your work and there’s? Everything we just talked about, you write all that collaboration. All right, diane, hte leonard with the h for my maiden name, which is corey. Corey. Okay. Diane it’s. Leonard hori is not part of ah, her earl it’s d h leonard consulting dot com and she’s at diane h leonard always got that year was keeping her maiden name present, though, but abbreviated well, and also there’s a there’s, an impressionist painter. Diane leonard. So when you think about ceo and how you identify, i see. Okay, thank you very much for coming, diane. And thanks for being in the studio record. Thank you. Thanks for being here. You probably thought that i forgot live lister loving podcast pleasantries, inflate affections. Oh, you are. You are badly mistaken. The live listener love goes out. There were a couple of weeks, several weeks pre recorded here, but the live love goes out to you, the live listeners and our podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand of you listening on platforms like itunes and stitcher and pod bay and player and deutsche dot d or whatever pod bay dot d or something pleasantries to our podcast audience and the affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country listening on those devices those old am and fm radios with the bet with some of you still have the those rotary tuners. I love those. Go away! Down the end there is your station. Thank you for being with us. Affections to our affiliate listeners what’s up for next week. I don’t know, but it will be a good one and it will not be about fermentation. I let you down that time. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is a line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez and this great music is by scott. Stein of brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be green. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything people don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff sort of dane toe add an email. Address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for May 19, 2017: Healthcare Funding Options & Leadership Options

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

It’s not your 7th grade spelling bee! We Bee Spelling produces charity fundraiser spelling bees with stand-up comedy, live music & dance. It’s all in the video!

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

 

My Guests:

Chris Labbate: Healthcare Funding Options

You have options today! First, Chris Labbate walks us through fully insured; self funded; level funding & minimum premium, so you understand your choices paying for your employees’ health insurance. Chris is with Marsh & McLennan Agency.

 

 

Gene Takagi: Leadership Options

Gene Takagi

Then, we talk leadership options with Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group. Co-CEOs anyone? How about holacracy?

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Vertical_Color
View Full Transcript

Transcript for 340_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170519.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:49:25.918Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2017…05…340_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170519.mp3.159871622.json
Path to text: transcripts/2017/05/340_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170519.txt

Oh, hi there. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host this is show number three hundred forty, the three hundred fiftieth non-profit radio is going to be coming up it’s on july twenty eighth, three fifty music comedy special news i hope you’ll be with me for three fifty i’m sending spies special a pre show special live listener love to the fans of crystal a bat this insurance guy has a big fan base that this guy’s, a rock star who sells insurance live listener love to chris’s special live listeners, and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with my own militia if you try to soften me up with the idea that you missed today’s show health care funding options today is options day first, kriss la bat walks us through fully insured self-funding level funding and minimum premium. So you understand your choice is paying for your employees health insurance chris’s with marsh and mclennan agency and shared leadership options. We talked leadership options with jean takagi are legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group co ceos. Anyone? How about holacracy shared leadership on tony’s? Take two. My finger is still wagging, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com for all his fans. And, of course, for everyone else. Here is crystal bat with health care funding options. My privilege to welcome chris lay back to the studio as regional executive vice president at marshall mclennan agency, chris is an authority on employee benefits, including customer driven health plans and alternative funding. He shares his expertise and twenty eight years of industry experience to help you see how innovative employee benefits and hr programs can lower your costs. The company is at mm a hyphen and e dot com crystal bat. Welcome to studio. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to be here. I’m glad you are. Thank you. Read your colleague last week. Mark. So you’re going to shine like mark shine did yes, i know you’re up to it. All right? So we are we’re talking about funding funding options for employee health. Let’s, let’s reassure listeners first, this is not going to be impacted by health care reform that may come or is not going to be impacted seriously, right? Yes, that’s that’s correct? Most likely, the funding options will stay the same. Okay? Because we really can’t predict what’s coming out of congress, but we don’t expect the general ideas around funding that you and i are going to talk about to be impact. Correct, okay. Right? We don’t make the show irrelevant in two weeks after. Okay. All right, so it turns out you don’t have to fully fund. I mean, i think probably the majority are ah, now i know you do have some stats, actually, but i’m thinking small and midsize non-profits probably most of them are just osili insured, fully insured, really insured plan. Correct, but you have options. Correct. So? So in a fully insured plan, you’re just paying a fixed monthly rate that the insurance carrier sets for your organization and if its profitable to them it’s profitable them. If it’s not profitable, they’re taking on the all the risk skin and losing out. Yeah, okay. They probably don’t lose out too often, though. I’m guessing they might lose one year, but they’re probably gonna lose two years in a row over the long term state business. They have to make profit. Okay. Exactly. All right, so i think pretty. Yeah. People are pretty accustomed to that. The fully fully insured and ah it’s easy it’s level payment, i mean, and you know exactly what to expect. Her employees have a set of benefits and it’s all easily defined and of course, insurance, company’s, managing it right. So we’re just talking about the financing of the benefit plans, right? So that’s, often transparent to the employees, don’t get involved with that. So the employer is just paying the fixed costs, and they’re all there are alternatives to the fully insured, called self-funding, which can be explored for more, most organizations, five employees on up. Ok, so even for the smallest organization, correct benny on the state. But, yes, okay, okay, cool. S so this is going to be impacted by state law. Also, correct, yes, all right. Um now, if we are, if we are self-funding then we’re taking on some risk, correct, you’re taking on a portion of the claims risk so that portion you’re going to fund as the claims come in, but what’s often misunderstood about self-funding is that there are insured components built into self-funding so it may not be at the same level that you have. You’re fully insured, fixed rate, right? But you do have insurance components to protect you. Two different suits to specific types. There’s ones called specific insurance to protect you against any one person having a claim over a certain amount. Okay, you decide is the employer and you purchased that coverage of twenty five thousand fifty thousand. If a claim hits that level, the insurance kicks in, and then the second is called aggregate insurance, which is protection that your total claims that going don’t go over certain amount. Okay? All right, so i got you. I got you so you can. There are some. Yes, there are some insurance protections built into self-funding. All right, now you do have some stats about, um um about what? What? The percentages are around. Who’s self-funding. And how it’s. Been changing since nineteen, ninety nine like percentage self-funding vs versus the full, fully, fully insured thank you write. So especially since health care reform has has kicked in there’s been a movement towards self-funding on dh that basically is benefiting employer groups that have a favorable risk of benefits around the country. They’re showing. About sixty one percent of covered workers that have health insurance through their employer are covered under some form of a self-funding plan. Yeah, well, okay, so almost two thirds correct under some form of self self-funding and that’s changed from nineteen, ninety nine that was forty four percent correct. A big change. Okay, okay, um, so if we’re if we’re going to consider this self-funding option, there are some different kinds of costs that we need to be aware of, correct. Right now, we’re just like we have about two minutes before break. So why don’t you just kind of tease out the idea of these different kinds of costs we have to be aware of? And then you’re not going to more detail. Perfect after right after that. So in general there’s, two categories of cost, you have your fixed costs that you’re paying on a monthly basis and you have your variable costs will be, which will be your claims costs as they come in. Ok, fixed, invariable. All right, we’re going to dive into that a little more. We take our break a minute and a half earlier, so and then kristen are going to keep talking, finding out what your options are around, maybe self-funding all are a part of your employee health stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent with chris sabat when we’re talking about funding options for your employee health now, christine, you do not have lots of letters after your name. Last week we had i says that mention mark your colleague market lots of letters especially easy, like sees after name there’s all your where’s, all your credentials, they’re all just built into yourself. Yes. You know, i’ve been in industry since eighty nine, and i have my master’s in finance and marketing. I’m just really the experience in the industry on the benefits side. Okay, okay. Your bona fide? Yes. Okay. Okay. All right. So let’s. Now, zai promised diving a little more on these. Some of these costs that you have to think about taking on if you were goingto fundez self-funding fixed costs like like what? Like what? So the first fixed costs you would have is your cost to administer the plan. And typically you’re hiring an insurance carrier or a company. It looks like an insurance carrier called a third party administrator to perform all the tasks that that insurance carrier would under a fully insured plan. So paying claims customer service id cards for employees booklets. So from the employees perspective, if they don’t know what the funding is, it looks and feels like a fully insured plan to them. There’s no difference. Okay, so you’re outsourcing this administrative work. Exactly. No need for you to hire people to be doing this for you. Exactly. Cos that’ll do it for you. Yes, at a fraction of the cost of a fully insured plan. Okay. Okay. Um and the what? What else? Fixed costs. There’s this ways that now we now we get into some of the insurance coverage mentioned earlier, protecting us against a really unhealthy employer employee or or or or or aggregate. Go ahead. Absolutely. So so most companies that self-funding will have two types of insurance associated with their plan and their purchasing this protection. And the first is called specific insurance protection against anyone large claim going over a predetermined amount. And as the employees you, you picked that amount, whether it’s twenty five thousand, fifty thousand and as that amount goes up, the premium associating it kind of goes down exactly. Okay? And the second type of coverage is called aggregate insurance. And that’s protection that your total paid claims will not exceed a certain amount. Okay. And that’s, very inexpensive coverage. All right. And so these air part of your fixed costs that you’re going to be absorbing? Yes, if you’re if you’re exploring self-funding, you’ll get a monthly bill with your admin costs and your stoploss costs all printed out per employee, just like you get a fully insured premium bill. Okay, okay. On. And then you had the variable costs, which is basically what you’re going to be paying out for doctor visits. Right, etcetera. That right. Exactly. So the variable cost will be the claim’s paid out for your employee population covered under the plan. And in general, when you’re purchasing your stoploss insurance, the underwriter at the stoploss carrier will determine what they expect. Your claims to be given your employee population and then they’ll determine a maximum exposure. So if your claims go above this maximum amount, the insurance will kick in and cover it. Okay, that maximum exposure is usually set ten to twenty percent higher than your expected claims for your popular do-it-yourself kush. Exactly. Okay, exactly. Now, what about reserves in all this? I mean, if we’re going to be doing that, we have to have money set aside for the payment of claim. Exact. Exactly. So when you first go into self-funding plan in the first few months, you typically will not see any paid claims. Somebody goes to a doctor today. It doesn’t get reported two to three weeks from now when it gets paid. Okay, so there’s a cash flow advantage upfront going into a self funded plan, but on the back and if you ever terminate a self-funding plan, there’ll be claims coming into the third party administrator or the carrier that need to be paid based on service states prior to when you terminated, right? Right. That’s called run out or term a terminal liability. Okay, yeah, while you were self-funding toe at the end mean, you benefited in the beginning, right at the end. Claims are still going to be coming in as you exact your i guess. Or now fully insured. And you ended your your self-funding crackers. But but so that has to be a reserve fund, right? Don’t law must require something like you’ve gotta have ah dedicated account or something with the money. For the old yes, so typically a joint bank account set up with the third party administrator there paying claims out of this account when you had that crash flow advantage at the beginning of the program when your first during out self-funding we recommend that you just bank that money and that’s setting up the reserves for the event if it ever happens where you cancel the self-funding plan, okay? And how about knowing? Oh, well, i guess that goes into your expected cost. Me knowing how much to put into this reserve correcting for for a decent sized organization, i don’t know, like ten employees, i mean, could conceivably be half a million dollars or something. I mean, i’m just numbers don’t stop my head, right? You’re going to be more precise, you’re probably gonna say, well, it’s gonna depend on age, right and correct help histories, etcetera and it’s broken out by the underwriters on a monthly basis. So, you know, so when you get your stoploss coverage, they’ll give you a claims factor per employee per month. And that is how you calculate the number of employees times that claims factor gives you your exposure for the expected exclaims focus and that’s the amount that’s got to go in this dedicated reserve for typically yes, now you can’t you can’t be using this money for other purposes correct it, sze designated restricted or something for the self-funding plan? Yes, it should be air marks for the self-funding plants. He had the money available to pay their letting your employees down your absolute, obviously seriously. Okay. Okay. We don’t want people run operating that. Okay, um all right. So we’re talking a lot about self-funding what are what are some of the reasons you that non-profit might actually think about doing it? There’s some advantages? Yeah. There’s some big advantage associate with self-funding the first is there are a bunch of hidden taxes and fully insured plan. So under health care reform, there’s four four and a half percent in taxes that get attacked right onto a fully insured great. Okay, now, health care reform. Today on the day now, we’re recording couple weeks earlier, then this is going to air. So health care reform by that you mean the affordable care act? Correct? Or obamacare? Correct. Okay, not something that may be happening in congress in april of this year in may of this year is that right? That’s correct. So in the affordable care act, there’s a tax on non-profits that are any fully insured krauz any fully insured plan has attacks built into it that gets funded, the funds go right towards offsetting the cost of the affordable care act. Was it attacks on the amount of premium? You correct? Oh, interesting. Okay, right. Forty five percent you sent were correct and there’s also in some states and local taxes that get applied to fully insured plans. So when your self-funding you’re circumventing the state rules and some of these fully insured taxes at a federal level, yeah. Okay. All right. This one advantage. All right? What else are there? Other reasons it we have? Ah, younger, healthier group. You’re going to benefit because you’re paid claims will be much lower then expected or similar to expected. And then you’re paying less than you would under a fully insured plan now wouldn’t and ensure offering full insurance? Wouldn’t they be factoring in that you have a younger, healthier workforce. So health care reform change some of the factors that go in. They do account. For age coverage, tear with a single or family coverage if you’re a smoker or a nonsmoker, but generally you’re paid claims in a small group will not count towards calculating your rate. Wait a minute, we better impact that statement. Hold on, you’re paid claims in a given group will not will not what? I came here if you’re unaffiliated, if you’re in a fully insurance plan small group market? Yes, your claims do not drive your rates typically. Oh, they don’t correct because it’s the law of large numbers, they’re playing, they’re not going to base your rates on your claims. If you’re five people or ten people that’s what healthcare form actually did away with to try to stabilize the small group market just like those of us who are individuals, we go to the exchanges. It’s my premium is not at all based on my history could i mean, i think they might have asked if i’m a smoker. But that’s all yes, that’s one of the factors taken you okay? So we’re getting very small. So that’s at one end of the spectrum, tiny individual. I see what you’re saying. They’re all right there it applies to small groups as well. So i’ll give an example of you if you’re in a fully insured plan, you’re paying fixed rate every month and say your premium comes to one hundred thousand dollars a year. Okay, now, if you wanna self-funding plan, you’re paying your fixed costs, which might be twenty or thirty thousand will estimate and then there’s seventy thousand and projected claims what your claims only coming at ten thousand, you’re only paying ten thousand wonderful insure plan you pay the full hundred thousand still alright, so there’s an opportunity here for a new organization to engage in employee health, health, health and wellness, right? Yes, if you’re going to go fully every, i’m sorry if you’re goingto self-funding you can enjoy some benefits of every every, every two weeks, we have a five k run or, you know, whatever i say, right? I mean it’s perfect segway twenty foot that one of the next advantages. If you have an active wellness program where you’re engaging your employees and getting healthy, that can parlay into fewer claims and under self-funding plan, you benefit directly from that you’re not paying out claims on un employees that don’t go to the doctor. Okay? What size organization do we have to be? Or was it eliminated completely under affordable care act, where they would start looking at our claims history and our wellness programs? If we were going fully insured so it vary state by state eso it khun b fifty employees, one hundred employees and and more. All right, you have to be that size for them to start factoring in your individual act. Your program’s done. But i mean, you could have, like, smoking cessation. You could have, i don’t know. Organization provided fitbits and everybody’s got eight or ten thousand step daily minimum, right? You can have all kinds of programs to try to save yourself. Money. Those air, those air common wellness programs. There’s not innovative thinking, innovative now company and fried. It provided fifty. Now they’re doing that. Yes. Alright. I thought maybe i had some some great insights. Okay, um all right. So i just happened to be a big wellness fan so you could save some money if you doing self insurance. Self-funding self-funding i should say on and there’s a couple there’s. A couple more advantages. Get more transparency. You see, you’re paid claims were under fully insured arrangement. You typically do not especially smaller employers, so you don’t get to see the claims them all employers typically, we’ll not see their claims history because they’re not allowed or that usually carrier policy not to give out paid claims to smaller employers, especially if they’re rates aren’t dictated by plane. So that gives you the ability to better budget for future costs because you have all the information and it helps you design with plan design. So if you know people are over using the emergency room, you might up the co pan the emergency room copay and you might lower the copay on your urgent care centers or tele medicine to try to drive people with lower cost setting. Yes. Okay, so you could drive some behaviors. Okay. I could see that there’s one last one. It gives you the ability to not have to include state mandated benefits in your plan. And that’s, a big benefit for companies who have people across state lines because they can provide one seamless plan designed for all their employees. You say companies. But we non-profit organizations exactly. All right. So different. States have different mandated benefits, correct packages? Correct. Okay, i saw a bit of a little i mean, this is kind of interesting, well, privacy issue coming out of what you were just saying, if you’re self-funding you’re able to see claims history now you know who the unhealthy people are, right? Who’s got bad behaviors, etcetera mean, who wrecked a lot of so the reporting khun b done where’s d identified which just means you’re seeing general information, but it is if you have a smaller the company, you might be able to identify who those people are. S o typically you would want tohave an internal privacy policy, which which follows the hip national privacy standards with a privacy officer and a policy in place to protect that information and only have certain people buy-in certain people given access to the information within your organization. Ok, ok, that actually dovetails with what? What mark and i talked about last week levels of compartmentalization correct categorization, i believe he called. Okay, um, who typically would be looking at this data if we’re going self-funding who looks at this on a monthly basis so typically be somebody in hr maybe. Something in finance and it’s almost it’s, almost always d identified so you know, you’re not going to know who the people are, but they’re looking at it, just seeing what claims were being paid out and budget and future years, and then also the behaviours trying toe like you said, friends instance, if we see emergency rooms being overused, correct plan design, and then we could also just have meetings about listen, people, you know, you’re hurting our you’re hurting the organization by using the as your primary care or something like that, you know, you’re hurting. We’re trying to stay self-funding for for the these reasons because we think it’s better for you then than being fully insured. But you’re making it hard for us to do so right? Get a primary care physician. Yeah, you can have meetings about the right can you talk about? You can talk about that, you can have any things. And you, khun target wellness programs like you reference if you see your population has a history of high blood pressure or a lot of smokers, you can use that information to taylor educational program. Bring people in current, bring people in to talk about hypertension. Manage? Absolutely. Okay. Diabetic diabetes management? Yes. If people are having a lot of diabetes related issues. Okay. Okay. All right. So we still have some time left. What? My voice just cracked still. What? What happened? I asked you what else? What else could we talk about? Some of the some of the negatives with self-funding. So if you’re moving to a self funded arrangement, you have the variable cash outlay potential. So one month your claims can be very favorable. The next month you can have high claims. You do have those reinsurance caps built in protection. Stoploss is you’ve already examined all the jargon. I got tongue now, stoploss but you can still have some variants and some come organisations prefer the fixed costs associated with a fully insured plan. You know what you’re paying your budget for it and that’s your costs for the year where self-funding can vary over the course of twelve months. Okay, um, how does it work? This is a very basic question. But if you if you are self-funding, how does it work in terms of a network of hospitals and doctors? Have you that’s? Good cause. You choose what providers are available to your employees. So when when you hire the third party administrator or insurance carrier to administer the plan there, providing that service for you so you can hire a big insurance company and use their network, you’re renting their network to access those discounts. That’s part of the administrative fees it gets broken out into network rental fee utilization management, he gets into a very a lot, a lot of details broken out, focus. Okay, well, because you can use somebody’s network and not be insured by the exactly you’re taking the risk, you’re just using them to administer the plan. Roger. Okay, i say interesting. Okay, um, what else? We still got a few minutes left, so that zoho your disadvantages of having any of that was that was one big one. The other one is if you ever want to get out of self-funding you have that terminal liability. So if you say i’m canceling my self-funding plan today, you’ll have a couple months of claims to pay out. Still for claims that were incurred prior to your cancellation date. And at the same time, if you’re signing up for a fully insured plan, you’re paying the fully insured rates so it’s like a double payment for a few months to get out of this self-funding plan. I got to get to cool things. I got terminal liability and stoploss yes was going around saying, you sound like a genius, alright stoploss german labbate that’s a term reliability problem on dh that i could touch on to two other quick thing before you do, though dahna the terminal liability i mean, could that could that go on for years? I mean, suppose someone made a claim while you were still self-funding and then they continue to have related issues to that claim like so i don’t know what a surgery that went bad or something, and then years later, they’re still having, like following surgeries to that infection from when you were self-funding what good question so it’s driven by the nhk earl date of the claim? So if i go to a doctor today and i’m self-funding today, it gets paid dahna self-funding plan for that same condition if i go to the doctor next month and next month i’m under a fully insured plan gets paid by the flame. Shirt plan. Oh, so the general liabilities just the run out. They call it from the from the self-funding period when people went to the doctor during that plan here. All right, so it’s not considered like a pre existing condition. Correct? Where the now insurance company, because you’re fully insured kicks is going is going to kick it back to you from what? Your self-funding days doesn’t work like that. Correct? It does not. Does not. Okay. Okay. All right. That’s, some reliability thisyou xero everywhere you’re in our daily lives. Term liability stoploss okay, what else you got? I could do real quickly to other hybrid type products between fully insured and self-funding. So you have some combination once called level funding, and this gives you the fixed costs of a fully insured plan where you paint a rate every month for employees. But at the end of the year, if your claims are favorable, there’s the potential to get a refund of a portion of the terrible claims. Oh, so you benefit if if claims air. Good. Act. Okay. And if claims are are not good. You’ve paid your rate for the year and you walk away. Okay, well, that’s, because you have what you want had some stoploss coverage it’s all built into, like, a fully insured rate. So you have that fixed rate, and then if your claims are favorable there’s something called a settlement done at the end of the year, you know, if you would get money back, but there’s no potential. The additional dellaccio more correct. Okay. And then you have you said in which another hybrid? Yeah. There’s there’s one more call the minimum premium arrangement. And this is sort of like a fully insured rate, but you’re carving out the claims part of it and your funding the claims as they actually come in. So similar to level funded. But you don’t have the wait till the end of the year to get the benefit of favorable claim get, like month the month? Correct. Exactly. Well, okay, so there’s. A lot of issues to think about, and i guess way just have, like, a minute and a half left or so, but i guess this all comes down to risk tolerance. Exactly. Do you do? Do you want to just write off the wrist completely and give it to an insurance company? Or would you like to get some of the benefits of doing it yourself and maybe even having healthier employees? But you’re taking on some of that risk. Correct your risk tolerance and your ability to handle some cash flow changes from one month the month with self-funding and it really comes down to analyzing what would my costs be under a fully sure plan. Total costs. What may cost being herself funded plan at the maximum claims that’s where the stoploss carrier says you would not pay more than that. Yes, you’re a total costs on. Then what would your cost be under the expected where they expect your claims to be? Given your employee population and looking at those numbers will give you a good feel for where he should be. Okay. All right. Crystal bat. Andi. I demoted him because he’s, a crystal bat is a regional executive vice president at marshall mclennan agency. Okay. I wanna thank you very much, chris. Thank you. Tony called my pleasure. Coming up. We have jean takagi and shared leadership options. More options for you first. Pursuant, they’ve got a new webinar. Big surprise. It’s free designing experiences. That inspired donorsearch every brand elicits a feeling, you know this like think disney, starbucks, united airlines and each of your donors has an impression of your organization based on their experience and interactions with you with your brand. On thursday, may twenty fifth, you can join lutheran, our ministries, brad never ary and pursuance senior vice president hillary noon and learn how to create immersive experiences that inspire greater engagement from your donors and potential donors. Brad is going to share how lutheran our explored the journey of a key audience identified opportunities to improve on their experience with his brand, and they put in practice places that are goingto make measurable impact trying to make change. Of course, this will be archived if you can’t make the live session, but if you can, you register at pursuant dot com quick resource is and then webinars we’ll be spelling who needs to engage millennials? Maybe you’re bored has raised that as ah as a possibility or a need. Do you feel it’s important for your sustainability? Perhaps what you waiting for? We be spelling dotcom get started for pete’s sake. Hosta fund-raising spelling bee. This is not your seventh. Grade spelling bee. You know this. Check out the video at we b e spelling dot com and then talk to the ceo alex career. Set something up or just get more information. We be e spelling dot com. Now, time for tony’s. Take two. That damn finger is wagging again. Are you properly registered in each state where you solicit donations? You need to be listen to my admonishing tone. It’s not going to stop. Where are you sending e mails? Sending direct mail hosting events, maybe buying ad space. Do you have a donate? Now button that admonishing tony’s not going away. Each of these things is a solicitation, and it triggers the registration requirements. Charity registration. You need to get it done. I can help you. You could do-it-yourself. You need to be in compliance in each state where you are soliciting donations. My video is that tony martignetti dot com that is the admonishing tony’s. Take two live lesser love. I’ve got a ton here in the united states of america and not too much abroad. Really. So let’s, uh, let’s. Start here in the us of a with tampa, florida. Very loyal, lifeless and live. Out to you special tampa. You’ve been with us for a long, long time. Woodridge in new jersey, swan’s borrow north carolina, new york, new york and brooklyn. New york really got two out of three borrows this week last week. Course we had all five. But brooklyn. I’m glad you’re with us. Manhattan. Thank you so much, but gives he with that westchester that’s. Not bad. North of the city. Poughkeepsie live. Listen, i’d love to you also, white plains neighbors in westchester live. Listen level so to newjersey caldwell, new jersey, hackensack, new jersey. Still no altum pandu jersey, where my mom and dad are sitting right now. Uh, moving ah! Moving way down south san marcos, texas live. Listen, love out to you, san marcos on then coming back to the northeast, stratford, connecticut were all over except on the west coast. I know what west coast person who’s listening but he’s on the line so it doesn’t count. Not this week. And let’s do germany got to live listeners in germany? We cannot see your they’re so concerned about privacy in europe we cannot see your cities in germany nonetheless live. Listen, love guten tag the podcast pleasantries. They got to go, you know that you’re tired of me saying it, but i’m not going to stop the podcast. Pleasantries have to go out to the over twelve thousand, listening in that method pleasantries to you. Thank you for being with us on your schedule on demand, and the affiliate affections were looking to grow that affiliate list. Our outreach director, belly, betty mcardle belly. No, she’s. Not ever. Billy. Betty mcardle is working on that. But for the effect for the affiliate stations that exist right now. Of course i am. And fm stations affections to you. So glad that you’re station includes us on your schedule. Thank you. Jean takagi is with us waiting patiently. He’s the one i was alluding to, um and he is the managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the wildly popular non-profit low block dot com and he’s the american bar association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer he’s at g tack on twitter and i believe he’s calling from an airport. Welcome back, jean takagi. Hi, tony. How are you? I’m very good. Very well, are you, in fact, in an airport? Is that what happened? I’m now at an airport hotel. A little bit better. Okay, where are you? What city you’re in? I’m in los angeles, los angeles. So that’s not far from you for san francisco. Okay. Okay. S a little background noise. I kind of like that. Mixes things up a little bit. Um, if anybody gets difficult while you’re on the phone, you know if you have to drop the phone, you know, and fight somebody off, just explain what you’re doing first before you just dropped the phone. Okay, i’ll make sure i hold them off, ok? All right, well, do what you have to do but inform me first that’s the first your safety is secondary to informing me that’s what? I’m that’s basically, what i’m saying, it makes understood, ok, thank you very much for that. So we’re talking about some shared leadership options. Um what? What brought this to your attention? You know, shared leadership has kind of been a little bit of a hot button issue recently amongst non-profits that are thinking of more equitable practices and in attracting younger people. Millennials, you might refer to the you know, to that group and say that they may not be is ingrained with the hierarchical structure that those of our generation tony, maybe comfortable within used to, and they’re really wanting tio have more of a say early on in their careers, so, you know, shared leadership issues, all sorts of forms are really starting tio to take hold in some practice on dh starting t gain in more popularity so are you seeing this? I guess mostly then in organisations where the leadership is thirtysomething or so well, you’re seeing it from from a lot of younger people, for sure. So living in the san francisco bay area in with silicon valley nearby, and this is not just a non-profit management or organizational structure, this is started in the for-profit world in this sort of spread into some non-profits but yeah, it’s a lot of younger tech companies, like suppose that that sort of kicked it, kicked it off some of experimented with it and left it like medium, but one of my organization that i’m on the board of a compass point non-profit services also experimented with holacracy and while it isn’t continuing in a whole keeping the whole model, we’re keeping aspect of it because you feel it’s really valuable. Okay, now i’m not going to put you in jargon jail because i know we are going to talk about holacracy but you just try to slide by me, and i want you to know that i’m quicker than you. So i i noted it, but you’re you’re you’re pardoned thiss time because where i know we’re going to talk about holacracy alright, so so sort of following from what you’re suggesting i can see the advantages there’s empowerment, there’s, there’s, there’s shared, there’s shared buy-in and empowerment of others. Yeah, and i think that works for leadership development with the team more people having more voices, teo impact what’s happening with the organization, what they’re doing, they become more interested in it that probably helps in recruitment and retention. It helps internal communication and collaboration, and it i think, necessitates cross training because you’re talking and trying to understand what your little part of the organization, how it may impact every other part of your if you’re one of the decision makers, are you’re making decisions as a group? You got to know the other three other parts of the the organization how your decisions are going to impact them. Yeah, i can see that this is not something you embark on overnight, right? Especially in the need for cross training and understanding. What’s going on across the crust of our organization for the thing people are going to be sharing in leadership now. Yeah, absolutely. The other, you know, benefit that has some people. Have been writing about it lately than it actually helps facilitate and succession planning. So we have more people who maybe pull, you know, in the pool of candidates to take over for for a ceo or an executive director. That maybe leaving the organization? Yes. Okay, that’s a good one, right succession plan. We’ve talked about that. Uh, ok, alright. See cem value. Um, but i see some potential downsides to this is going to be a lot more cumbersome for decision making. Yeah. I mean, you can imagine when you have too many chefs in the kitchen. I guess it is the metaphor analogy that people make on dh. So yeah, definitely neo-sage delayed decision making and that khun delay implementation of ideas. So you’re kind of the slow ship that takes forever to turn around. It can result in inefficiencies, and then you may lose opportunities, not acting’s. Quick enough cause confusion at the start. A cz you’re trying to figure out, you know, who’s accountable. How how do we, you know, make a decision? What if we’re split for? For what? If we start tio a form cliques within our organization and then we start to battle or engage in disputes with other factions of the organization. So their their potential bound falls that you have to actually really account for careful. Yeah, potential for open conflict. I mean, one of the things we’re going to talk about his co ceos and, ah, i mean, if the two people don’t agree. I don’t know. Yeah, get factions and jesus, you could start running like our white house. I don’t know. Okay, we’re gonna get to co ceos. All right, um, let’s. See? Well, we may as well go there. Um, what air you saying? Have you seen this? Have you have you seen this one in practice, where there were two ceos? Maybe any of your clients execute this? I mean, i’m just i’m just wondering if you’ve seen it firsthand co ceos, yeah, way have so definitely on. And i think this is actually becoming more of a trend, and i’ve seen it more in the nonprofit sector have limited exposure to for-profit sense since since i left that that world but i think you know, times are getting much more complicated. Management has also become much, much more complicated with, you know, technology changes non-profits are exploring earned income and advocacy and collaborations and employees laws are changing and then non-profit corporate and tax laws are ever changing, and right now there there’s some big, big changes that are planned, of course, on dh. So with all of that complexity, can one person really be the leader through the organization understand all of those those factors and be ableto lead the organization through all of it and that’s kind of why there’s been a little bit of a draw forming co ceos and succession planning is the other thing is, i think there’s supposed to be a huge turnover of executive lake leadership is the baby boomers are starting to age out of their employment, and they’re starting to retire on dh succession is, uh, is a problem if we don’t have adequately trained and experienced people in those roles, and coke co ceo platform’s can really help ease that problem. Ok, but with with all those issues that you mentioned for leaders to deal with, i’m not even sure that to people with their combined skills could manage, you know, can understand all that in the level of depth that that’s necessary. I don’t know, i’m not even sure two people could do it, so yeah, ee don’t know that i’ve ever seen three tio, no, but i’m just wondering if if i’m not sure to really adds that in my sense of it, too doesn’t really add that much more value. You could say it doubles, but i’m not even sure that’s enough, so if if i’m right, then why not just stick with one who has a strong team of people directly reporting to him or her it’s an interesting argument, tony, and indefinitely the single ceo structure is the one that were more comfortable with and probably the one that’s going to teach comin in for a long time still. But first, for some organizations, experimenting with two ceo structures can work out. And i think where we’ve seen this practically is where the two leaders share kind of a long term relationship, so they’ve already comfortable with how they work on dh, how they would make decisions together hyre the areas of responsibility, maybe divided so that one person has final decision making over these fears of the operation and the other one over other spheres, and sometimes, you know, in a very simplistic way, some people just refer to it is the internal management and the external management. Yeah, okay, some of that makes me makes me think of mika brzezinski and joe scarborough. I don’t know, okay, all right, let’s go out for a break and when we come back, jean, i’m going to keep talking about the shared leadership options. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy, tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m peter shankman, author of zombie loyalists, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent um, jean, i’m thinking this is goingto take some time to to implement and, uh, before you start to reap benefits from it, if you if you do it’s not you, you’re not going to see this immediately. The advantages? Yeah, you know, i think it’s going to take an investment on depending upon what level of shared leadership you’re talking about co ceos is probably the a fairly simple level, relatively speaking of shared leadership, but yeah, it’s going to require an investment, it may take a failure, teo, actually get it going the way you want it. So there’s definitely a lot of learning. It relies on it, you know, having a shared vision and common values amongst the shared leaders on if you don’t have that established, you really shouldn’t do this. You have to be careful of the amount of money, time and other resource is that you’re going to have to invest because that’s all got to be budgeted in if you don’t incubated and invested and nurture it, it means it’s probably not going to work. We’re also gonna need a lot. Of patients among our staff. Yeah, yeah, i think that’s absolutely, absolutely right. You run the risk of having that go to mom, go to pop kind of run things, right? Good cop, bad cop. Yes, right. Somebody’s, thie other ones said this, but i said no. So i’m coming to you, right? Right? You got to beat that stuff down. All right? Interesting let’s go to one that i want to make sure we spend enough time on this. To me, it sounds like anarchy, but you’ve said your organization you’re on the board of is doing some of this. The pro you call it program autonomy is what is that? So the general idea and they’re different forms of this, but this this is on the other end of the spectrum of complexity. So this is a complex form of shared leadership where each program or each division oven organization is fairly autonomous, so doesn’t all rely upon going to the ceo on the ceo makes the final decision. Each group within the organization which might be divided into programs, will make their own decisions now don’t know, probably be working with the budget that’s been approved by the board on then segregated out into the different programs. So they know what the operating rules are within within their group. But figuring out how to distribute the leadership and that’s the one of the buzzwords, sum, sum. Avoiding drug in jail again, it’s. Really just distributing the leadership amongst the different programs or the different groups within the organization and there’s. One particular type of model that i mentioned earlier, which i should have waited until we got to this segment. That’s called holacracy on dh. That is a particular form of distributed leadership, where the different groups that that are taking on these local decision making authority rolls are called circles. No, james, no, jane. Yeah. Can you still hear me? Yes, i hear you. Okay, last thing we heard you say was holacracy is made up of circles, but you need to explain. Yeah, so you know, generally the way holacracy works is so it’s a form of program autonomy, although again, the circles or self managed groups don’t necessarily have to be divided into a program that could be divided into function. So there might be one for fund-raising for service delivery, for grants, for events, for public communications. So however, you decide you want to divide up the circles, it’s going to be an iterative process where you’re always modifying it. So every month you’re going to consider whether you should have the same circles or different circles, and each individual is actually going to take a role with multiple circles, and in some cases they’ll be the leader of a circle that’s going to help decision making and help facilitate that circle or that group of individuals within that circle to make a decision. And in other circles they may not be see that that leader on dh, so they’ll just be part of the group that makes the decision making, and they might be on three or four, five circles depending upon what their skills are. All right, this is anarchy to me, but you’re saying it works a compass point, it weaves we’ve tried it for maybe a year and a half, and we’ve decided to modify it so we’re keeping aspects of it. But we’re not keeping the whole thing, so you’re anarchists of anarchy. You can’t even follow the anarchic model of program autonomy. Okay, well non-profits pride themselves on their ability to experiment and hopefully do yes, alright, yeah. So who is but who’s orchestrating the overall? I mean, there’s got to be, doesn’t there? Well, i’m i’m answering my question, but better ask it as a question, doesn’t there need to be one or maybe two people if the co ceos overseeing the coordination of all these pola craddick circles yeah, there, you know, so it’s it’s, largely governed by two principles, one is you’ve got the law on the latto has the board of directors on top of the organizational hierarchy and does require a ceo in most states, or or a president that that’s going to be ultimately in. Charge however, they’re going to be a set of rules and systems, and this has to be very transparent and holacracy so you’re not leaving everybody to go. I don’t know who to go, teo, you know, maybe i’ll ask this person so in holacracy there’s a large set of rules that everybody knows and everybody has to abide by, including the ceo and that’s where how the different relationships between the circles are all codified and how the decision making goes from one circle to another. But ultimately again, it would be a non non-profit corporations you have a board of directors and ceo have to oversee the whole thing and can decide how to modify accordingly. Okay, maybe something for listeners toe look at program autonomy, let’s say i wanted to jump to the most complex one because i want to make sure enough time sometimes our talk at the end, our topics at the end get cut off a little bit. I don’t want that to happen with program autonomy and the holacracy pola craddick circles still feels very crystal lee to me, i don’t know dahna all right, let’s, go to we just have about two. Minutes left explain how the ceo and the board might be the leadership share well for small organizations that particularly all volunteer organizations it’s usually all hands on deck, right? The board is completely active in running the programs of the organization as well as just doing their regular board duty. So, you know, you got the ceo because somebody has to be ceo of a corporation that might be called president or chair of the board, but somebody has got to be identified in that way, and what their decision making authority is going to be will depend upon what the board wants to give to that position, but board make decisions board takes actions on lee at meetings or by written consent, so whenever individuals are actually running programs, they’re not running them as board members. They’re running them of volunteers with certain delegated authority. And what the board has to really be careful of is that they’re making sure that they’re delegating authority for somebody to run an event or somebody to run a specific program there delegating with due care, meaning that they’re not quitting somebody who would be totally unqualified and in experience latto lead. Something of importance to the organization because if it is, gets into trouble, you know, the board could be held for violating the produce very duty’s not exercising reasonable care in making that delegation, and they can’t just say, well, that was another board members, i couldn’t tell them what to do. That’s not the case. Yeah, yeah. Ok, i see. I see i see a greater responsibility and risk for for the board under this one, but it makes sense. I mean, they’re taking a more active role in the leadership of the organization. That’s, right? So that’s, that’s very much shared leadership where all board members see themselves as equal, but when they’re exercising roles that are different from meeting at boards and taking actions like approving contracts are approving, you know, the by-laws there acting as volunteers, so they have to realize that they’re wearing a different hat and the authority has to be properly delegated. We’re gonna leave it there. Jim takagi from ah hotel in los angeles managing attorney of neo and you’ll find him at g tak neos, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. Thanks so much, gene. Thanks. Have a great day. I pleasure. Thank you. Next week, diane lettered returns with your grants team in and out. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling, dot com, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scots. Time you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s, not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 15, 2014: Female Technologists & Hiring Geeks

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

I Love Our Sponsor!

Sponsored by Generosity Series, a nationwide series of multi-charity 5K events that provide a proven peer-to-peer fundraising platform to charities and an amazing experience for their participants.

Sign-up for show alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Dahna Goldstein, Rose de Fremery, Tracy Kronzak: Female Technologists 

Dahna Goldstein, Rose de Fremery, Tracy Kronzak
Dahna Goldstein, Rose de Fremery, Tracy Kronzak

Women are underrepresented in nonprofit technology–and leadership. What can your organization do to support the women who make up 60% of nonprofit employees? How can women help their own careers and each other? Dahna Goldstein is founder and CEO of PhilanTech; Rose de Fremery is founder & CEO of lowercase d Consulting; and Tracy Kronzak is consulting manager at Cloud for Good (Recorded at NTEN’s Nonprofit Technology Conference.)

 

 

 Amy Sample Ward: Hiring Geeks

Picture of Amy Sample Ward
Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor and CEO of NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network, shares strategies for hiring technologists if you’re not technical: job descriptions; interviewing; testing; and onboarding. 

 

dfasdfasdf

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

Sign-up for show alerts!

Sponsored by:

GenEvents logo

Nonprofit Radio for November 1, 2013: When Leaders Leave

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Sponsored by RallyBound peer-to-peer fundraising for runs, walks and rides.

Listen live or archive:

My Guest:

Priscilla Rosenwald: When Leaders Leave

Patricia Rosenwald photoYour CEO has been recruited away for a dream job. Where does that leave you? Priscilla Rosenwald, co-author of “When Leaders Leave” wants you and your board to plan for leadership transition long before it’s announced.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: On Fridays at 1pm Eastern: Talking Alternative Radio

Sign-up for show alerts!

You can also subscribe on iTunes to get the podcast automatically.

Sponsored by:
rallybound-banner logo

 

 

 

Nonprofit Radio for October 19, 2012: Leadership & LinkedIn News

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Norman Olshansky
Norman Olshansky: Leadership

Norm Olshansky, consultant and co-editor of “You and Your Nonprofit” shares his advice on nonprofit leadership. His premise is, “Everything starts with leadership.”

 

 

Maria Semple
Maria Semple: LinkedIn News

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder and our prospect research contributor has two new offerings from LinkedIn. BoardConnect helps you find the right people to serve as board members and Reasons2Call reveals touch points for making contact with the people you want to talk to.

 

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Fridays, 1-2PM Eastern

Sign-up for show alerts!

Here is a link to the audio podcast: 114: Leadership & LinkedIn News. You can also subscribe on iTunes to get it automatically.