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Nonprofit Radio for August 21, 2015: Online And At Risk & Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring

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Diane Oates: Online and at Risk?

Do you accept donations online? Have a “donate now” button? Are you using crowdfunding sites? You may need to register with lots of states, not just your own. Diane Oates is an assistant attorney general in the consumer protection division of the Florida AG’s office and a former National Association of State Charities Officials (NASCO) board member. (Originally aired July 11, 2014.)

 

Gene Takagi: Your Board’s Role in Executive Hiring

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO), walks us through this important board responsibility: hiring the executive officer.  (Originally aired July 11, 2014.)

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with dextrose gas trea, if i was forced to stomach the mere hint that you missed today’s show online and at risk, do you accept donations online? Do you have a donate now button? Are you using crowd funding sites? You may need to register with lots of states, not just your own. Diane oates is an assistant attorney general in the consumer protection division of the florida attorney general’s office and she’s, a former national association of state charities officials boardmember that’s nasco and that originally aired on july eleventh twenty fourteen also, your board’s role in executive hiring jean takagi, our monthly legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo walks us through this important board responsibility hyre ing the executive officer that’s also from the july eleventh show last year on tony’s take two, i’m not speaking to the new york times we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com here is online and at risk with diane oats with me she’s an assist, associate assistant attorney general in the ohio attorney generals charitable law section. She had been with the office for eight years. Managing a broad range of cases, including charitable gambling and charitable solicitations. She has handled multiple investigations and enforcement actions and is ohio’s point person for multi state enforcement actions. Diana it’s, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony, for having me on. Thank you very much for holding on. Sorry about that. No problem. I hope you enjoyed the music. Oh, i did, um, let’s. See, so these are laws that non-profits have to comply with. And a lot of these laws haven’t really kept up with the new solicitation methods that that charities have that’s correct. A lot of the laws are are older and do not address any sort of internet solicitations. Ah, there are such guy lines is the charleston principles which charities can follow in determining whether they need to register in a variety of states that they are soliciting online right? And we’ll get a chance to talk about the charleston principles. It’s, it’s, but there’s there’s not only online. But then there’s also the mobile giving world, of course, and that is growing by leaps and bounds. We actually just had a multi state they nasco it’s, the national state association charity officials put out some wise giving tips for charities on how to manage ah, and be wise on the internet when doing any sort of mobile giving or any sort of internet solicitation. So you definitely charity should be definitely protecting their brand and making sure they know who is soliciting for them on the internet. Um, and we’re going to get to that document in the wise giving tips the primary question, i think, is what what is a solicitation? And unfortunately that really varies from state to state, you’re correct. In a lot of states, the definitions might be a little bit different in ohio. Uh, it is when a person asked for anything of value, so it can’t be money can be time, and that donation would benefit a charitable organization or a charitable purpose and that’s that’s fairly consistent across the states. But but there are there are nuances when you start to drill down into well, okay, so sending us mail asking for a donation. That’s, that’s. A solicitation everywhere but as you start to go down, too, email oppcoll having a donate. Now, button on your site, driving people to the donate now button that’s, where it starts to get a little murky across the states. Definitely, and that’s, where the charleston principals come into play, and that’s, where the differences arise, because i believe only two states, tennessee and colorado, have adopted the charleston principles into law. Ah, many other states, including ohio, used them as guidelines for when to determine if a charity needs to register with our state if they have such a thing as it donate now, button or any sort of online solicitation. Okay, so we know that they’re adopted in only two states. Right now. Suppose you’re not in aa one of those two states. Can you just pick up the phone and talk to somebody and ask whether they use the charleston principles as guidelines? I would advise calling either the attorney general and your state or the secretary of state’s office, whichever office has the charity regulator located in it and see how they treat the charleston principles you could call up if you’re in ohio, call up our office, we would be able to tell you we used merely as guidelines to guide us as to whether charity needs to register. Obviously, if you are located in a certain state, if you’re located in ohio and you’re soliciting from there, you would have to register anyways, if you’re not let’s, say you’re located in west virginia, then we would go through the factors with you to see if you would need to register in ohio simply by having a donate. Now button on your website. A lot of times, though, i find clients make a call like that, but ultimately the final responsive to get is always we can’t tell you or we can’t advise you whether to register, okay, that and that might be the response in some states and ohio. I mean, we we would try to help you out as much as possible again, we can’t give legal advice, but i mean, i think we could steer you in the right direction isto whether you would need to register or not looking at whether you are, you know, mailing or emailing any solicitations to someone in ohio, if you are soliciting through an interactive website meaning you can collect donations straight through that website and whether you’re these are the two big factors whether you’re specifically targeting a person in our state or whether you’re receiving donations from a purse from people in our state on a repeated an ongoing basis or substantial basis, that so we would go through those factors and try to work with the charity to figure out whether you need to register here or not. We would definitely do that, ok, maybe ohio’s friendlier than a lot of states that that may very well be, but and i’m not saying it’s not worth the call it’s just that because it definitely is worth the call. As you said, either to the attorney, general’s office or the secretary of state, it is worth the call. This is that sometimes, you know, the ultimate answer should i register falls on usually it falls to the to the charity and, you know, and they’re sort of referred to their legal advisors, but it’s still worth the call because, um, you can you can get a fair amount of help. Definitely. Okay, um, we have just about a minute or so before break. Why don’t you explain what thes charleston principles are just so so everyone’s acquainted with them? Sure, they are guidelines which, uh, charity can follow, too. See if they should register in a state merely if they are soliciting on the internet. So what they need to look at if they are domiciled in a state, they will probably need to register there. And what i mean by domiciled is if they have their principal place a business in that state, if they’re not domiciled in the state, they need to look at there. Ah, non internet activities. And if those alone would cause them to register in that state, like if they’re mailing or calling people in that state, they would need to register if they are just asking for donations through their website. And if they’re either specifically targeting people in that state on their website for donations or they’re receiving contributions from that state on a repeated and ongoing basis for a substantial basis, then they would need to register in that state all about looking at the contacts in that state. All right, we’re going to take this break. When we come back, we’ll find out where we can see the charleston principles. They actually happen to be my subway read. I carry them with me all the time, and i read them every, you know, like, every six months or so, i just go back and read them on ben. Diane and i will we’ll keep talking about what’s a solicitation on, including talking about crowd funding sites to stay with us. Could you tell at the beginning of that interview that i was badly out of breath? That’s because i was late to the studio. This was the one hundred ninety ninth show. Andi was the first time i had been late. I had teo either called or texted sam. He had to play the music. I like one and a half times over by the time i got here i had run from the subway, which which is what held me up. So yes, if you if you thought i was out of breath, you were right. And then i i was looking forward to the two hundred show and hoping that i wouldn’t be late for that which which i was not let’s, do some live. Listen, love before we go to this break st louis, missouri clifton, new jersey i used to hang out at clifton a lot because my grandmother used to work at a big pharmaceutical company in clifton son of a gun. Which one was that? I don’t think it was mark. Well, there was a big pharmaceutical company i don’t think is very big and clifton anymore, but she used to work there and i would go meet her after and then my parents were dropped me off. We’d meet her there, and then she would take me to her house. That was in clifton, and we have another us, your masked we see you, we just don’t know where you are. So could be the nsa, fbi, cia, some other acronym. We’re on to you, and we are we are investigating. Also, let’s go to aa japan, konnichi wa, too, in chino, maya and mexico city, mexico, is with us. Also. Hola, que tal that’s really about the best i can recall from from high school, but that’s not so bad. I mean, i think, it’s, how you doing? Right. Holacracy tall tower, mexico city listeners and there’s more to come. Let’s, go to this break, and then we’ll go right back into this interview with diane oats. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent got lots of live listener love, let’s start domestic because we’ve got a lot of foreign listeners, of course, but let’s start domestic bethpage, new york. Many in bethpage don’t know who’s in bethpage do you know each other in bethpage live? Listen, her love to you there. Beverly, massachusetts, new bern, north carolina. I just spent some very nice time in north carolina. Thank you. New bern. Columbus, ohio. New york, new york. Live listener loved each of our live listeners. And, of course, there are more podcast pleasantries, of course, to those listening on the time shift where the iran a treadmill car, subway airplane, wherever you are, pleasantries to you. Nine thousand plus ofyou. Okay. Diana it’s. Um, let’s. See, where can we? What? We find these charleston principles to go and read them ourselves? If we would like to do so, i believe they’re located on the nasco net website. You can go to nasco net dot or ge. Okay. And that’s an a s c o net dot org’s the national association of state charities officials of which you are a boardmember. Yeah. And that’s, the organization that created the wise giving tips documents. So while we’re talking about finding documents, what what’s the full name of that document? Sure, it’s the internet and social media solicitations wise giving tips and the tips are for three separate audiences for charities, donors and fund-raising platforms, and it gives recommendations and tips on how to give and fund-raising wisely online. All right, the internet and social media solicitations wise giving tips and that’s also on the nasco website, right? Correct. Okay, crowd funding the crowd funding sites. Those raised a lot of questions. I get this a lot when i’m doing speaking, what if we are using crowd rise or deposited gift? What do who’s supposed to register them? Right? If you’re a charity again, i would direct the charity to the charleston principles. Usually on those websites, you’re not targeting a specific state unless maybe an event is taking place in a certain state or, you know, your charity is located in that state, so and i think it’s unclear also, whether the fund-raising platforms themselves need to register with states that’s still kind of an open question, okay? And also get questions related. When charity’s air working with community foundations and and the foundation is sort of the past through for the for the donations, the question then is who should be fun? Who should be registering and again looking at the charleston principles if it’s just a passer, entity that’s just doing some administrative work with processing donations, they might not need to register, so i would again and advise those community foundations toe look at the principles right for the community foundations and then the charity’s the same who exactly? Okay, but yeah, as we said, unfortunately, you don’t know for sure, except for two states, whether the state is is adhering to the principles. How come, how come, why is it that more states haven’t adopted them either? Officially, i guess through their legislatures or may be not as an act of the legislature, but just officially through the office that manages the charity registration process in each state, and that is a good question. I am not. I’m not really sure of the answer there, and yeah, i should probably talk to tennessee in colorado and see how they got that pushed through. I’m not sure why more states haven’t actually officially adopted them, okay, dahna because they are really cool, and they’re called charleston principles because i believe it was in meeting of nasco that was held in charleston, south carolina, where they were. These were adopted. I think they were. The discussion started there, yes, in charleston, south carolina, that’s. Why they’re called goodbye, not okay, but maybe not adopted there. Alright, yeah, attorney holding my feet to the fire e used to be an attorney, but so now that now i run roughshod over things. So thank you for being explicit. Okay, what about? We know there’s one state where you don’t have to register. Tell us about that. I believe that. Arizona? Yes. Yes, arizona. I believe they recently did away with their registration statue. I’m not too sure about that, but that is not a growing trend that icy. Definitely. I see that kind of an outlier. Okay, okay. So one point does not one data point does not make a trend. Things that i can’t even make a line from one point. Okay, but yes, arizona has explicitly said charities that are on ly soliciting in our state. I don’t need to register and yeah, they had a statutory system around registration and that was repealed or, you know, largely repealed. Yes. Um, now you made a point earlier that we wanted i want, like, just liketo amplify your home state where your incorporated that we should certainly be registered there. Yes, than any place where you have any principal place of business. Well, okay. So differentiating the inc you’re you’re only incorporated in one state, right? Because you’re not you’re not not-for-profits corporation, and that can only be one state. But you could have places of business. In lots of states, you can have the principal place of this that’s, probably in one state, but then you can have multiple locations everywhere and if you’re, you know, conducting solicitations from those locations and yes, definitely should be registering in the states. Now you’re you’re a, uh an important player in this because you’re a nasco boardmember but it’s so, um, divers, because we’re fifty difference sets of statutes and, um, timetables and fees and things do you do you get frustrated by this process? It it can get frustrating. And we definitely hear from our constituent charities that it is frustrating and that’s why we do have twelve states that are working on a single poor, cracked the website where charities khun go and register and they wouldn’t have to duplicate the process over and over again. Okay, this is the single portal initiative. Exactly. What more can you tell us about what state that is? Or i don’t mean state. You know what? What state it’s in, etcetera. What can you tell us? Uh, well, the single portal project is being headed by twelve pilot states. They include california, illinois, alaska, colorado, connecticut, hawaii, massachusetts, michigan. Mississippi, missouri, new hampshire and tennessee and basically it’s, a project that has three components one obviously is to create a unified elektronik registration system that will allow non-profit organizations and then they’re professional fundraisers to goto one site and fulfill their registration requirements for all states eventually at that site. Um, another component is also to be a public website where anyone can get this information that’s filed, academics could get it tio create analysis of emerging issues and trends. The public can look up this information to make more informed choices about their charitable giving and also non-profits can look up this information to compare thie effectiveness and cost of their professional fundraisers that they hyre and third, this would be a great tool for regulators. They could direct their limited resources away from registration and toward their core purpose of preventing fraud and misuse of charitable funds. Is this ah, envision to be a free site for charities? Um, that is a good question. I not sure about that. I know that this is kind of a three year time period where they’re going to try to get this off the ground rather soon and have it. Build up in phases over the next three years. I am not sure about the fees. I do not know that. Ok, ok. Um, timetable do what stage is it at now? It is at the beginning stages. Thie pilot states created a nonprofit organization in delaware. Teo, help develop and operate the website. And they just decided that the urban institute they chose them to design and build the single portal website. So it’s in the process of being built. And they are also establishing an advisory committee to help with the design and operation of the system. Okay, is it is it funded yet? Or were steven still too early for that it’s in the process of funding and the the non-profit, the multistate registration of filing portal the non-profit that was formed is reaching out to the non-profit community. Now, with grant proposals to help build up funds for this project. Okay, so that’s something to look forward to. Handup so is there not yet a timetable? Like when this should be live? Or maybe not all twelve states, but at least some initial minimum viable version? Um, i think i mean, the goal is to roll. Out the stages in the next three years. So hopefully in the next, maybe two years, the registration sites would be up and running. But please don’t call me that, okay? Okay, we won’t. Nobody listens to this show anyway, diane so you’re fine. Okay, well, we know that arizona standing alone. Not a trend, but are there any other trends that you do see coming up? The big trend icy is internet fund-raising on and that’s. Why nasco did put out this wise internet giving tips the intern fund-raising on the internet is growing. I believe in two thousand three it was about six point four percent of all charitable giving, but still it’s growing lead some bounds year by year. So we were really urge charities. Teo be aware of their presence on the internet and be aware of who’s raising money for them on the internet. A lot of thes fund-raising websites, they download the database of charities from guide star. And then anyone can just go on and start fund-raising for a charity, which is great. But you also want to make sure that no impostors are going out there and claiming that their associate it with your charity and trying to gain access to your donations, so check out the wise giving tips on also the charleston principles those will help you, andi will put, ah, put links to those on the takeaways from the show, which go up on the facebook pages afternoon diane, please leave us with the nasco conference that the charities are welcome to come, too. Yes, definitely. The two thousand fourteen nasco conference is on monday, october six, at the hyatt regency washington on capitol hill in washington, d c the theme this year is the evolving role of charitable regulation in the twenty first century. There are a lot of great panel scheduled i’ll just mention a couple first will be disaster relief and opportunities for collaboration between regulators and the not for profit sector. Um, our luncheon topic is our charities really charitable with our keynote speakers? Thomas kelly, who is a professor at u n c school of law, and john columbo, who’s, professor and interim dean at the university of illinois at chicago school of law and then one panel, i think, is going to be extremely interesting about ratings and evaluating charities. We have three. Panelists are taylor, who is president and ceo of the better business bureau. Wise getting alliance. Daniel bora chop, who is president of charity watch, and ken berger, who is the ceo of charity navigator. And then we also have panels on a messa you bit executive compensation are wise giving tips and then also a single portal update, so it should be a great conference, and you can get more information about the conference at nasco. Net dot org’s, thank you very much. Art taylor and ken berger have been guests on the show when we did the, uh, the altum the myth, the what was it, thea, the overhead myth letter that’s, right? We have the three signers of the overhead myth letter on and those they were two of them. All right, diane, thank you very much. Thank you, my pleasure, diana it’s, associate assistant attorney general in the ohio attorney general’s charitable law section. And i have an update tio what? Diane, i’m just talking about if you’re interested in this year’s nasco conference, that is october fifth of this year and ah, nasco net dot or ge is the place to get more information. I called my mother on the brake and asked her the company that my grandmother used to work for in clifton i was mistaking it was not a pharmaceutical company, but was i t and t international telephone and telegraph? Do they even exist anymore? It and t i don’t i don’t know if they do, but that was where there was a big plant that my grandmother worked at when i was growing up. Tony, take two and your boards role in executive hiring are coming up first. Pursuant, they do full service fund-raising they have web based tools for small and midsize non-profits do you need more prospects? I hear that a lot that that’s a problem. You need more prospects at higher levels and related to that. How do you know who’s capable of upgrade? This is what pursuance prospector platform does. It finds your upgrade ready donors. So you know who to pursue for larger. E-giving trent riker is the ceo at pursuing he has a background in non-profits for about twelve years, he leads this company. They are data driven, technology driven, and prospector platform is one of pursuing smart online tools. You’ll raise more money pursuant. Dot com, check them out new york times i’m not speaking to the new york times, and i implore them to stop stealing my guests. It happened latest incident. Latest incident was just last week. Remember, will mccaskill, the professor from oxford, oppcoll what happened? Okay, i do love scott stein, but not his time. Are we okay? Okay. I don’t mind. Scott stein a little. Well, who? Um it was a phantom sam throwing his arms up. He doesn’t know what happened. All right. Anyway, we’ll mccaskill so he’s on the show last friday. Of course, talking about his show doing good, his book doing good, better. And then on saturday, he’s in the new york times profiling his book doing good, better you believe that? And there was another time it was about two or three years ago and i’m sick of it. It’s happening too often do two points like that make a trend? Absolutely. The video where i explain this in more detail and you’ll see my ire. Is that tony martignetti dot com knock it off new york times do you know about fund-raising fundamentals? That is my monthly ten minute podcast devoted to fund-raising only for small and midsize shops, it’s fund-raising only not on ly for small and midsize shops, large shops could listen to, but i’m not thinking about them when i’m producing the show it’s a burst of fund-raising info i would say it’s only once. A month, i do it for the chronicle of philanthropy. So that’s published on their site and like non-profit radio, i picked the brains of experts and you listen on your own schedule. That one is not live. That is strictly a podcast. Recent ones preparing for your next recession with paul rosenberg from the bridge band group and boosting your plan e-giving with our own creative producer claire meyerhoff there’s info on fund-raising fundamentals at tony martignetti dot com and at the chronicle of philanthropy. Although gotomeeting durney dot com because i need the traffic and chronicle of philanthropy is doing just fine. That is tony’s take two for friday twenty first of august thirty third show of the year. Here is r wonderful. Ah, informative. Smart contributor on the law, jean takagi on your boards role in executive hiring jean takagi he’s with us. You know him? He’s, the managing editor, attorney at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the very popular non-profit law block dot com on twitter he’s at g tak g ta ke jin takagi welcome back. Hi, tony in congratulations on one ninety nine. I’m looking forward to two hundred next week. Cool. Yes. I’m glad you’re gonna be calling in for with us. Thank you very much. Thank you, it’s. Very exciting. Really? One hundred ninety nine shows ago. It’s one hundred ninety nine weeks it’s it’s. Remarkable. Um, we’re talking this week about the board’s role in hiring the executive and i’ve i understand that there are a lot of executives in transition. I think so, tony and it looks like some surveys have confirmed that it’s certainly been syrians with some of my clients and even on boards i’ve sat on over the last couple years. And there’s, a great group called compass point out in san francisco there nationally known as one of the most respected non-profit support centers and together with blue avocado, a non-profit online publication, they have a national survey on leadership succession in transition going on just right now. The last time they published the results with in two thousand eleven, and they found that sixty seven percent of current executive anticipated leaving within five years and ten percent. We’re currently actively looking to leave right then, and in two thousand eleven, the economic times weren’t so were so great. So sixty seven percent anticipating leaving within five years that’s a pretty staggering number. So now we’re already three years into that survey into that five year projection. Yeah, and sixty seven percent of two thirds. So if we had held this show off until two thousand sixteen, then it would have been moved. But there’s a new one coming out, you said, yeah, well, they’re they’re just starting the survey online now so you can participate on that. I don’t know the website, but if you, you know google non-profit transition survey executive transition survey, thank you, you’ll get that okay, and its compass point it’s a compass point and blew up a goddamn kottler who you’ve. You’ve mentioned blue vaccaro before i know. All right, so, yeah, two thirds of of ceos were expecting to be in transition within five years and where we’re only three years into it now. So the presumably these people are still looking. What? But boards don’t really spend enough time preparing for this kind of succession, do they? Well, you know, in many cases they don’t, and sometimes, you know, they might stay, they don’t get the chance because their executive director comes up to them and give us in two weeks notice, and now, you know, the board may be used to meeting every month or every other month or even every third month, and now all of a sudden they’ve gotta ramp up their efforts and find an executive to come in in two weeks. That’s going to be really tough to do on dh, you know, again, if we say at any given time, two thirds of the non-profit executives are looking to leave their job, you know, it’s very likely that within your board term, you know, you may have an executive transition to manage, and sometimes with very little notice. So that’s that’s? Why? I think succession planning is just really a core duty of non-profit board. Well, how do we let them get away with this two week notice? I mean, the ones i typically see are you know, the person will stay on until a successor is found, you that’s, not your experience. Well, you know, you’re really lucky if you if you do get that situation, i think most non-profit executives are hired on at will basis. Meaning that there’s, not a contract to stay there for a given number of years. Either party can conception, rate or terminate the employment relationship at any time. And as the average, you know, employee may give two weeks notice to go on to another job there. Many executives who feel the same way that they, you know, they may feel like they own allegiance to an organization. But another opportunity comes up and it’s not going to be held for them forever. And they may want to move on. Um, and they may feel like what they gave the board really advanced notice that they might be looking for something that they might get terminated. So they may keep that information from the board until the last two weeks. Well, because all right, so that i am way in the dark because i would. I just presumed that executive directors, ceos even if small and midsize shops were not at will. But they were but that they were contract. I mean, when i was a lonely back in my days of wage slavery, director of planned e-giving i was in at will employees, which means you can end it. Like you said, you could end at any time and so can they like, if they don’t like the color of your tie one day they can fire you, you’re at will. But but that that’s typical for for ceos and and executive directors. Yeah, i think for smaller non-profits it’s very, very common. Oh, i just always assumed that these were contract positions with termination clause is and no. Okay, but, i mean, you know, it’s, your practice, i’m not i’m not disagreeing with you, i’m just saying i’m okay, i’m learning something s so that’s that’s incredibly risky. So it is. It just put you in that position of saying, well, i need to replace somebody immediately and i don’t you know, as a board we don’t meet very often can we even convene within the two weeks to find the process going? It’s going to be so much better if he had a plan of what happened in case you know, our executive every doesn’t give two weeks notice, and even if the executive says, you know, in your scenario, maybe a longer notice, maybe, you know, in six months, if they do have a contract at the end of my contract, i don’t plan to renew, you know, i think we should go through the process of looking for for a successor and having a plan or thinking about that plan that is just coming up with something on the fly is going to probably result in a much better choice for selection of a leader in the future and that’s going to be critical and how well the organisation operates and how the beneficiaries of your organization are going to do are they going to get the benefits of a strong organization or are thinking is suffer because the organization can’t do it? You can’t advance mission as well. It should. Yeah, i mean, you’re you’re calling it on the fly. I would say two weeks notice for an executive director. Departing is is a crisis even four weeks notice? Yeah, in many cases you’re you’re absolutely right. Okay, i’m right about something. Thank you. You’ve got something right today. All right. So what do we what do we do, teo, to plan for that? Just well, you know, i think the first thing the board has to do is start toe think about the contingencies. So what do we do and then actually want one thought that comes to mind that, uh, that you raised tony is should we get our executive director on an employment contract? If they are and that will employee do we want to lock it in? And they’re sort of pros and cons with that? If you’ve got, like, not the best executive director in the world, terminating somebody on a contract becomes much, much more difficult than if they were at will employees. So, you know, you kind of have to weigh the pros and cons, but, you know, revisiting your current executives director and the employment relationship is maybe step one. Oh, and suddenly he was thinking about, well, do you have a really strong job description that really reflects with the board wants of the executive director and on the basis on which the board is reviewing the executives performance on dh? Maybe the sort of initial question to ask in that area? Is do you actually review the executive director and that the board you absolutely should? You and i have talked about that the board’s is not part of their fiduciary duty to evaluate the performance of the the ceo? Yeah, i think so. I think it’s a core part of meeting their fiduciary duties that really, you know, as a board, if you meet once a month or once every couple of months or whatever what’s more important, you know, then really selecting the individual who’s going to lead the organization in advancing its mission and its values and implementing your plans and policies and making sure the organization complies with the law. Taking your leader is probably the most important task that the board has, because the board is delegating management to the to that leader. Yeah, absolutely. And i think it’s often forgot naralo overlooked that individual board members inherently have no power and no authority to do anything think so, it’s only as a group. When they meet collectively, can they take aboard action? So for individuals to exercise, you know, powers on behalf of the organization that has to be delegated to them and typically the person responsible for everything is that ceo or the executive director. We’re gonna go out for a break, gene. And when we come back, you now keep talking about the process. The what goes into this process, including the job offer. So everybody stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email. Tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact, i guess, directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz gotta send live listener love, let’s. Start in japan with tokyo kiss are a zoo and nagoya. Konnichiwa, seoul, south korea, seoul. Some someone south korea, always checking in love that on your haserot. Moscow, russia, mexico city, mexico, ireland. We can’t see your city ireland’s being masked for some reason, but we know you’re there. Welcome, welcome, ireland, and also taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, nobody from china, that’s, funny, nobody from china today, coming back to the u s, we got cummings, georgia, in ashburn, virginia. Live listener love to you in georgia and virginia. Okay, gene. So now we’ve let’s say, we’ve learned that our exec is departing and let’s not make it a crisis situation, though let’s say this person is generous enough to give six months notice. So, you know, let’s, not make it a crisis. Where what’s our what’s, our what’s, our first step as the board. Terrific. And i’ll just add, even if you don’t, if you know your executive is not leaving any time soon and i think you should go ahead and start this process anyway. Oh, yeah, clearly we should be. We should have a succession plan in place. Yes, we’ve talked right? Okay, yeah. So i think the first thing to do is get a committee together so it might include boardmember some outside experts outside with the board. If you don’t have that internal expertise and just getting different perspectives out there, some of your other stakeholders might be really important in what, you know what you want to look for in an executive in the future. So get that committee together first, get the buy-in of the current executive director. So unless it’s going to be, you know, a succession plan for a termination? Yeah, we’re really unhappy with executive director, right? Let’s not get into that. Yeah, let’s get their buy-in and have them help in the process. Especially with your scenario where they’re giving a six months notice and everything is amicable. Let’s, you know, see? Shoot, who knows better about the organization than the executive director that’s in place right now. So i’m getting there buy-in and help contribution. I think it is pivotal. Does this committee have to be comprised of hr experts? Why? I think having a least one or two hr experts is going to be really helpful. But i i think it’s more than that. It’s, you need program people who understand what the executive you know roll is no respect to advancing the program. You need the fund-raising people to know well, what is the going to do with respect to fund-raising perhaps the seeds, the lead fundraiser and some small organizations as well. So we need thio gather a bunch of different people with different perspectives and expertise to figure this out. And i think that’s a very good point to include a t least a programme expert. Now, could this committee include employees, or does it have to be sure you can absolutely on dh? You know, you might even have have have different subcommittees in there. So eventually this is going to go up to the board. But as the committee’s doing the legwork for determining what? You need an executive director and putting together a job description, and and, you know, perhaps, but the performance evaluation is going to be based on for the future executive director all those things can get, you know, we’d be aided by the contribution from several areas. Okay, okay, what are your thoughts on hiring a recruiter vs vs? Not well, i you know, i think it depends upon what the organization shins resource is our and the organization should understand the marketplace it’s in a swell hiring two great executive director is the competitive thing. So, you know, if you’ve got a lot of resources and you’re able to you want to allocate an appropriate amount of resource is tio what i think again is making one of your most important decisions of the board? I don’t think you want to do this on the cheap at all. I’m just the same way i didn’t want you to do it on the fly or or or in a rushed matter-ness think you want to invest in this, and if you don’t have great expertise inside about on things about, like, doing job interviews and doing background checks on the sex thing, you know how to differentiate between one candidate and another when they all look good on paper and when they’re maybe professional interviewees, but they’re not there, maybe not great leaders. How do you figure all those things that if you don’t know, that dahna an executive search firm could be a great help, and it can just open up the marketplace of potential candidates as well, especially if they, you know, decide to do a regional or even a national search. It really can ramp up who who you’re going to see in front of you and the quality of the candidates that the selection comedian the board eventually will have to choose from. Okay, does the committee now come up with a couple of candidates to bring to the board, or is it better for the committee to choose one and bring that person to the board? How does this work? You know, i think the committee should be tasked with bringing several candidates up on sometimes it may be a multi tiered process so they might go through two rounds of screening, for example, and and at least let the board see who’s made the first cut. And then and then, you know, present to the board, the final, perhaps two or three candidates. If, if you’ve got, you know, the ones that are very close and in quality in terms of what the board want in an executive director, i think that’s pivotal. I wanted to add one. Nothing, though. I’ve seen this done before, tony and i don’t really like it and that’s when. If a search committee or research consultant comes up and says, you know, to the board, tell me what you want in the good executive director everybody, you know, spend five minutes, write it down and send it to me or take it home and email it to me oh, and tell me what you want and then the search consultant collates the the the answers and then that’s, you know, the decision about that’s what’s going to be the qualities you’re going to look for. I think this needs a lot of discussion and deliberation and the value of that, you know, that that thought process and that really difficult thinking and getting all those generative questions out there is going to produce a much better product in terms of what you’re looking for and who you can get and how you’re going to do it. Yeah, you you send this tio use email and, you know, it’s going to get the typical attention that an e mail gets, like a minute or something. You know, it’s it’s going to get short shrift. And your point is that this is critical. It’s it’s, the leader of your organization, you want do you want the contributions of the committee to be done in, like a minute off the top of their head just so they can get the email out of their inbox? Yeah, definitely. We could talk about board meetings and another show, but put this at the front of the meeting and spend, you know, seventy five percent of your time talking about this. This is really, really important, okay, you have some thoughts about compensation, and we just have a couple minutes left. So let’s let’s say we’ve the board has well, i can’t jump there yet. Who should make the final call among these candidates? Is it the board? Yeah, i think it should be the board that makes the final approval, but they they’re going to put a lot of weight based on what? The executive of the search committee, you know, tell them who they’re you know, the recommendation is okay, and i think that toe add one more thing to it is make sure the organization looks good to clean up your paperwork and your programming and even your facilities. Just make sure you’re going to be attractive to the candidate as well. Because if you want to attract the best, you better be looking your best as well. Okay, okay. And the with respect to compensation now, we’ve talked about this before. What? What’s excessive. And there should be calms and things like that, right? So it’s really important to make sure that the board or unauthorized board committee one that composed just board members, approved the compensation before it’s offered to the candidate. Even if you don’t know that they’re going accepted or not, once he offers out there that compensation package, total compensation should have been approved by the board. And you want to do it with using the rebuttable presumption of reasonable procedures unless you know its far below market value. Okay, if you get payed accessibly or if you pay somebody excessively, that could be penalty taxes for everybody. Including the board. Should be careful of that. We have talked about that rebuttable presumption before. Yeah. All right, then. We have to leave that there. I look forward to talking to you next week on the two hundredth great. Congratulations again. And i look forward to it as well. Thank you, gene. Gene takagi, managing attorney of neo. The non-profit and exempt organizations law group, his blog’s non-profit law block dot com and on twitter he is at g tak. Some updates, of course, too live listener love because you were listening to live listener love from july eleventh, twenty fourteen. So that’s a that’s. A little bit at a date, more people have joined us, including wilmington, north carolina, media, pennsylvania. Pottstown, pennsylvania, and spring lake, new jersey. I spent a lot of time very close to spring lake in belmar because my other grandmother, not the grandmother who worked at i t that was my mom’s mom. But my dad’s mom and dad had a home in belmar and i used to go there weeks on end. My parents were thrilled to get rid of me when i was four, five, six, seven, eight years old. Oh, my gosh. Lots of weekends in belmar. And i know that spring lake is a very, very pretty town. Also, uh, what’s the big hotel there where i’ve been for dinner, the breakers. Is that the breakers? That beautiful hotel? Ah, not literally on the water, but pretty darn close right across that little little just across ocean have love spring lake and interesting springlake media and pottstown you’re listening from itunes cool live listen love to each of you also joining us sao paulo, brazil, beijing, china ni hao and belong j portugal live listeners love to each of you now you might have noticed that on that july eleven twenty fourteen show, there was no podcast pleasantries and no affiliate affections. You see how this show is growing and expanding and innovating constantly on one hundred ninety ninth show. The next week was going to be the two hundredth. We don’t have podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections. Now we do so pleasantries out to all our ten thousand plus podcast listeners wherever, whatever you’re doing, affiliate affections love you too all our affiliate am and fm stations i want to waken affiliate affections. I’m just realizing it’s a f f f f f after two dafs squared affiliate affections! I don’t know, maybe that’s too that’s hokey. Besides, i like thea. I like the the ah what is it when all the words start with the same whatever that that i love it’s an alliteration. Thank you saying so. I liked the alliteration, so we’re sticking with affiliate affections. No. After two next week, i told you it was coming. Incentive pay for your fundraisers to fund-raising administrators from the university of pittsburgh. Very senior people share their innovative pay plan for their frontline fundraisers. If you missed any part of today’s show finding on tony martignetti dot com, where in the world else would you go? I i believe that i had said that i was going to stop singing weeks ago, but i must have been misinformed. It’s my show and do whatever i want. And if you don’t want to singing host, get your own show, i beseech you, go ahead pursuant full service fund-raising you’ll raise train car loads more money, and i’m not talking about those two person little flat beds that the people pump up and down like a seesaw to move along the tracks like, you know, oh brother, where art thou? I’m talking cattle cars, container cars, tank cars filled with money pursuant dot com. We’re going to go out with a live version of cheap red wine today. This is the live version from the two hundredth show, which was the week after the show that we just turned the two segments from scott stein came in the studio, brought his elektronik eighty eight keyboard, and he played cheap red wine, our theme music. And since it’s snuck in earlier today, phantom lee, we’re going to go out with it. Here’s. The live version from the two hundred show our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer show social media’s by susan chavez. Susan chavez. Dot com on our music is by scots. Dine with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great wait can agree on nothing. Wait till our ups from my down wait disappointed in each other. Now tell me, baby, and this love that we found. You know, you used to find me charming, but i can figure out how. And you said, you thought those handsome. But it doesn’t matter now. So came falling for my punch. On just long in time, we’ll allow, because i’m you got her empty promises. A bottle of cheap red wine. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. It took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe. Add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five.

A-Z: Best Of Nonprofit Radio 2014 (My Best Shit Of The Year!)

Video: ALS After Ice Bucket Challenge

200th Nonprofit Radio

Faceoff

Video: Upgrading Your Donors with Angel Aloma from Fundraising Day 2014

Zombie Loyalists with Peter Shankman

Video: Giving Tuesday 2014 With Possum Shooting

FAQs

Tools from givingtuesday.org–really valuable, like a press release; unselfie tools; and event checklist

Cooking your Tennessee possum

Webinars on using the social networks from givingtuesday.org

Shorter videos called Summer School (thank you Beth Kanter for revealing these)

Nonprofit Radio: Rachel Hutchisson and Anastasia Dellaccio on the history of Giving Tuesday and how you can get involved

“Only 37 Days Until #GivingTuesday” from Catchafire.org

“8 Last Minute Facebook Tactics” that will work this year but John Haydon wrote them in 2013. He was thinking ahead.

A challenge to Giving Tuesday by Seth Rosen

#GivingTuesday on Twitter

Henry Timms on Twitter

Nonprofit Radio for October 10, 2014: Online Testing & In-Kind Gifts

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Cam Robbins & Matt Burghdoff: Online Testing

With Cam Robbins (L) and Matt Burghdoff
With Cam Robbins (L) and Matt Burghdoff

What do you test online and how do you get started? The experts take on my hypothetical of a $500,000 fundraising campaign. They are Cam Robbins from Easter Seals and Matt Burghdoff with Donordigital. (Recorded at NTC 2014, the Nonprofit Technology Conference.)

 

 

 

Maria Semple: In-Kind Gifts

Maria SempleMaria Semple, our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder, returns to talk about in-kind gifts. How do you find these non-cash gifts, their value and the right appraiser? When do you need an appraiser? We’ll answer all.

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with granuloma tose iss, sino vitus if i learned that you missed today’s show online testing, what do you test online and how do you get started? The experts take on my hypothetical of a half a million dollars fund-raising campaign. They are cam robbins from easter seals and matt burghdoff with donordigital that was recorded at ntc twenty fourteen, the non-profit technology conference and in-kind gif ts maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder, returns to talk about in-kind e-giving how do you find these non-cash gif ts their value and the right appraiser? When do you need an appraiser? Will answer it all on tony’s? Take two video from last week’s show on alice’s ice bucket challenge. We’re sponsored by generosity siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks here is my interview from and t c twenty fourteen about online testing welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel. In washington, d c with me are matt burghdoff and camera bins there. Workshop top work-life shop topic is online testing practical insights and lessons learned. Matt burghdoff is senior account executive for donordigital cam robbins is interactive marketing manager for easter seals. Matt cam, welcome. Thank you. Pleasure. Uh, we’re talking about online testing. What? What? What is it specifically, cam? That we’re testing that’s an excellent question. You have to figure out what your goal is. What do you consider success? And then you test different ways different past to get there. Okay, so the, uh the measure the measure of success clearly comes from what it is you want to be successful at and where we find that from our mission is that we’re going that that organic it could be it could be your mission could be getting your brand out there. It could be getting your constituents engaged with you. It could be getting more donors to donate andi, it could just be discreet. Campaign might be might be just an online campaign. That’s going to last sixty days or so. Something like that? Well, you’d want to be a bit more specific than just a campaign. What is the goal of the campaign? Is that a fundraising campaign you want to reach x amount? Is that a engagement campaign you want to raise? You’re engaged constituency by a certain percentage, and and so it’s it’s, showing different ways to increase what it is you’re trying to dio. So does path, eh, give you this path, they do it better than path be sometimes you find that it’s the same and it’s always good just to see what’s out there what other people are doing? Because sometimes some people are doing a great sometimes that works for you, sometimes it doesn’t. So there’s the tried and true that you’ve always done doesn’t always work, and so testing helps you find out if you’re in a rut or if you’re going down the right path. Matt er good testing leads to clearer decisions, better informed decisions about how to get to where you want to go the way i can’t describe it. Yeah, exactly one of the things when you do a good test, one of the main objective is to really try to get a learning to really try to figure out what you should be doing next. How can you make sure that all of the efforts that you’re putting forth, you know, all of these campaigns, all of this creative thatyou’re doing, making sure that it’s actually working the best that it possibly can when you’re investing so much time when you’re sometimes investing so much resource is finances you want to? Make sure that you’re putting those into what’s going to give you the best bang for your buck what’s really going to be delivering altum best results for you on exactly his camp said sometimes what those results mean, or what those results are can vary a little bit depending on your specific goals, your specific campaign objectives but really, you want to that’s the whole point of testing is really to make sure that you’re getting the best results you possibly can. One of the things that i like to always kind of remember, this is actually a quote from one of the individuals that i like to follow, but who is that? Why don’t you shout at him or her it’s actually, dr flint mcglaughlin from mec labs, you might know it better is marketing sherpa. They’re mecha labs actually parent company. I would highly recommend that anybody just kind of followed. They have various free webinars, all sorts of good fun stuff, white papers, it’s a large repository of specific tests actually that have been done that it’s very, very insightful and i would say definitely checking is there? Is there a twitter idea that people can follow i’m sure there is, but i don’t know what i don’t know. Okay, well, mech labs, we can find them, okay, but basically one of the things that always sticks with me and that i always try to remember is adequacy is the enemy of excellence. Make sure that you don’t really just kind of focus on what is working because a lot of different non-profits a lot of different organizations will have a current plan, a current objective. You know, something that’s already built that’s kind of working for them. That’s a least keeping them going that they feel comfortable with. But the real question is, is that really what could be your best? You know? Okay, great. You’ve got a million dollars or one hundred thousand dollars coming in every month, every year. Well, could you maybe have three million dollars coming in if you actually made sure that your creative your message wass the best that it could be? And that’s, really, what testing is aimed at doing is making sure that you can get to that highest level that you can make whatever you have work the best that i possibly can. Okay, i think. Teo, help our conversation let’s, let’s, uh, create a, uh, develop a hypothetical campaign. Can we do that? And, you know, fund-raising is so basic to non-profits i mean, as tempted as i am to make it more sort of community engagement related, but to keep it real for listeners, let’s, let’s make it a fund-raising campaign and let’s say that, well, we don’t have we don’t have a time frame for it, but we’re trying to raise half a million dollars. All right? And we’ve developed some online landing pages message for doing that and driving people to our you are online giving paige, i’m keeping this pretty basic. I’m not, but you’re welcome to enhance the hypothetical that’s all purpose you’re gonna build from this is lame structure that i’m creative. Okay, so i want to raise half a million dollars in and i don’t have a time frame for doing it, and we’re we’re typically our annual budget is is it two and a half million dollars? We’re two and a half million dollar agency, okay, but what? I want to raise a half a million dollars in a campaign and i’m not really, as i said. Concerned about the duration of the campaign and we’ve developed landing pages now lorts do i have built enough of an infrastructure for a test yet or not yet know absolutely every every step of that process you contest for your home page if someone comes into your home page something that we actually tested easter seals as we put a bright green button on our home page that said, donate and we have soon that obviously it’s big it’s green there’s no way you can miss this, but it was pointed out to us that we had a drop down menu that said ways to give in which we didn’t have a specific donate link, so we tested it it was an a b test, so if you can do or say that you had a fifty percent chance of seeing this link in the fifty percent of not seeing it and having that link actually increased donations, so bringing people to the form is a very important part of the whole process. You can’t raise a million dollars if no one is coming to your donate for can we test how they’re coming from? It were one of the referral order the referral sites that are driving people to the home page. If you have the analects in place yes. So it could be your testing google ads or you’re testing you our social media marketing message. Your email messages yet anyway, to get people there is a test. Once you get them to the home page it’s a test. Once you get them on the donation page itself again there’s so many different things that you contest what’s your mastering. What are the do you go? Hired a lower sorry. Did you say ask string? Yes, i ask string now on twenty martignetti non-profit radio. We have george in jail and i think this testing conversation may just be right for for a pretty stiff sentences in jargon jail. But probation does come along easily. Parole, probation, parole board parole comes along easily. All right, i’m going to have trouble next what’s what’s our ask strength. So and ask string is thie amount that you present to the donor? Um, in increments. Is it twenty? Thirty, fifty. So there’s a good have the options. And then you generally have the open text field that says what amount? Do you want to give? Okay, so in the jargon it’s, the string is the the recommendations write suggested suggested giving, amassing e-giving what levels are those? Okay, right. And so testing what? Those actual numbers are on the the space between do you jump from ten to one hundred? Do you do it in ten dollar increments? If you go from hyre toe lower? Is it vertical? Is it horizontal? Oh, my, we’re really going to do all sorts of art in the lower up and down analytical or horizontal, really. And sometimes it makes a difference, and sometimes it it doesn’t. So that’s why you test one of the most common test with any sort of ask string is actually going ahead and saying, well, is this this kind of one of the best ways to actually start looking and seeing if you can increase your average gift size? So actually looking at saying, well, what? How much am i actually asking somebody to donate? Is my normal donation page actually asking people to just donate five, ten, fifteen and twenty five? And i know i’m hoping that people listening would say, wow, that’s really, really low, because i certainly hope that you would say that because i certainly would say that, but you know we can live certainly look at it a lot of times people will donate however much you ask them to, they don’t necessarily sit there and say while how much can i actually afford to give they use what you present to them as a guide it’s kind of like, how much can i give that should actually be helped your how much should i give that will actually help? So obviously kind of changing that ask string, seeing how much you can actually ask testing what’s really gonna work for your audience size and whether or not you can move that needle is definitely one of the best ways to start. I would just caution because there is one thing that you can run into is it’s always a little bit? When you start looking at asking people for a certain dollar amount the higher you go sometimes the fewer actual donations you’ll get so it’s always a little bit of a balancing act of saying, well, does it matter if i get ten percent fewer? Gif ts at a twenty five dollar instead of a twenty, dollar level. Or is that hurting me? Net revenue wise? You know, it’s kind of it’s, a balancing act to really look and see how far you push it. But it’s definitely a good test to start looking at if you’re not already. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz cerini this’s. The way we’re hosting part of my french nufer city guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language? Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and a common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them, shed their story, join us, pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping countries. People be better business people. Buy-in talking. Dahna now i have a client that has a database about four hundred thousand people a little over half of them are current donors within defining that has made a gift in the current or or most recent past year it’s like two hundred twenty five thousand or so of the forty thousand, and their average gift is eighteen dollars, so you know, it could be a pretty well ast and this is, uh, it’s, a faith based organization was back into the late eighteen hundreds. Oppcoll you know, it could be a pretty well established organization, but still have fifty dollars, could be a very large donation for them. Yes, it’s definitely possible well, and also one of the things in our session and particularly we focus on online testing, so driving up revenue specifically online with the other client that you mentioned eighteen dollars, seems awfully low, so i would guess that there more print, they are there for you, okay, definitely, you know, in print, it’s a little bit lower, you know, the average gifts eyes is definitely lower in print. That doesn’t mean you can’t test that out in print as well, so if you’re doing any kind of direct mail program i’ll admit that i’m or digital specialist, i’m not i wouldn’t pretend that i’m a print mail specialist, but one of the things that you can certainly be doing is on your reply devices actually looking and testing. There are a lot of different types of test that you can do with how much you ask whether you base it off of someone’s previous highest contribution, whether or not you base it on kind of there last gift just their period there. Last gift, not necessarily their highest gift ever. And i think also and where you position, if you’re using last gift argast then there’s lots of possibilities. But if using one of their exact gift where you position that in your ask string, you come in the middle is the first exactly on then, of course, there are all sorts of different treatments about whether or not you highlight the one that’s slightly higher than what they want. And that’s sort of all right, there’s also, you know, i’ll call this out. It’s we call it equivalency, ese, but it’s the idea of something. Have you ever seen something? Where you say, oh? Well, for five dollars, we can actually give a child a vaccination. Sure, you know that sort of impact, exactly impact ask exactly. You can certainly always test those out. In fact, actually, one of my clients just recently did some surveying and looked at it and said, well, actually, the equivalency ease that we’ve been using for certain dollar handles really just don’t seem to be the ones that people care the most about so maybe even just changing what that equivalency is may actually get more people to actually give at that level. Give that gift and that’s something that actually they just started going ahead and testing, but something to think about. Cam let’s, bring you back what else in the lame hypothetical that i created? What? What else can we be testing? What else? What else interested you in and what i created what i set up well on the donation form itself. Copy. How much copy? What kind of coffee? What’s your tone in the copy whether or not you use images. What kind of images? There’s. Really? So many different possibilities. You just need to figure out what it is they i would test. One thing at a time if you track change everything, you’re never going to, but i don’t know the answer, right? So there are so many possibilities you’ve really got to figure out what can you focus on? What is your strength if you don’t have a lot of photography, testing images doesn’t make a lot of sense, but maybe testing the copy does. Okay, let’s see harris, our people always randomly assigned camp tio tio test alternatives and the test that we’ve run, we tend to run a b tests. So yes way. Have done some testing that’s a little bit more broken out by highest previous contribution. But those air, very specialized, specific test. If you want something a little bit broader like is this copy working for audience in general? Does a five hundred dollar ask? Is that too much for our clientele then? Yes, i think a general more random. Is it’s the way to go? Ok, matt, i see you shaking your head a lot. Anything you want to add their yeah. I mean, the only thing that i would say is if you were going to set aside a specific control group of people. That are kind of representative, but even that you would probably more or less kind of randomly select you wouldn’t go through and one by one kind of pick out names you just kind of originally when you’re setting that group, try to get a generally representative population your audience on. Then maybe you just kind of hold them off separate arika if you know you, you have two very distinct groups, like, you know, that you have the the seventy plus people who are very passionate, but they like a certain message and you’re trying to bring in a younger crowd that you think well, you know, listen to a different message, then, yeah, you would want to be more specific and who you choose. Okay, good. You see, uh, can we take and we take our hypothetical a little further anything, you know, other things that we can, uh, we could be testing, or can we have another layer onto our half a million dollar campaign? Hypothetical teo make it more interesting from a go ahead? I mean, have fun. We’ll make it more interesting from a testing perspective. We’re well, one of the things that you could do is look at doing, you know, it’s so this goes a little bit beyond maybe not everybody has the opportunity to do this, but you could also look at saying, well, we obviously have, you know, five hundred thousand dollars for two and a half million dollar organization is a pretty sizeable chunk of their budget, so you might actually want to invest a little bit in-kind of focus group testing, look it actually what your message is going to be up front so you might actually look at saying something like, well, are we going to go with a message let’s say, this is an international relief organization? Or are you going to say, hey, well, i want to specifically raise disaster preparedness funds or do i want to pick a specific emergency that actually i’m responding to, you know, if we look back at the philippines just recently high and do we need to maybe raise revenue specifically to offset that, you know, or do we have something more generic that we really just kind of want to talk to? Or maybe we even have another area? The three year anniversary of syria conflict is obviously coming. Up, if not on us right now, you know, i mean, you got all these different types of things that you might want to look at testing and saying, well, let’s, put out a little bit let’s put some feelers out there, see if we can figure out which approach which conflict, which which message really seems to resonate, it is most likely to get us to the end goal that we need there are even if we are trying to raise unrestricted, you know, and we have some concerns about whether or not it’s going to become restricted, you know, if we at least know what type of message really seems to resonate, then we can look at that and say, well, how what can we learn from this? How can we pick up some of these different types of pieces and try and actually put that into a really strong unrestricted campaign? Okay? And we’re gonna add something camp? No, i was in golf in different directions, okay, go ahead. Oppcoll that was i’m assuming that you’re doing email with his campaign it’s not just a website that stands alone, let’s include that we’re going to make sure. That you drive people there timing. When do you send your e mails? Do you send them in the morning? You send two in one week heimans it’s very interesting. We used to think that our clientele would had, like, a three day window where they would take that long to open it. And now we’re finding that actually within twenty four hours, if they don’t act, they’re not going to do anything so that we have to, you know, change our approach. S o and we’re constantly testing that to make sure that we’re doing the best that we can not only to give our clientele what they want but also tto give us the best benefit, even email i’ve had guests who talk about testing subjects, subject lines, that’s huge, okay it’s so pedestrian and obvious that i that i’m the only one at the table who would say it, but no, no it’s, good it’s a good thing that we’re going out with the subject lines are an incredibly important part of the email, and people do tend to forget them. They break them first and don’t go back and look at them, they just assumed once. It’s done, it’s done, but that’s, that’s, not at all the case and email, looking a little more broadly, is still quite impactful and effective for non-profit fund-raising right, we’re not, we’re not, we’re not, we’re not. We’re not giving up no, no, definitely not, no, not even close, okay, okay, make that we get cleared in case anyone had a contrary opinion, if you are, you know this hypothetical is, is the raising half a million and a kn given unspecified amount of time. But consider urgency and changing that urgency that could go to your campaign message. I was in your place. So our name is easter seals. Obviously, that has a connotation to a certain holiday. That’s coming up. Um, maybe by the time this pocket may have passed, well, yeah, actually may have, but it wasn’t it z within the within within many weeks either before or after you. Okay, so we wait tended to just always have a spring campaign. That was our easter drive to tie into our name. And then one year we decided that we were going to stop that. And we wanted more closely line it with our offline campaign, which with a spring drive. And it happened to our our due date for, you know, all the money to come in was at the end of the month, it had absolutely nothing to do with easter. And it did terribly online because people were so used to our name and do just seeing that holiday triggered with our name got them to donate. So timing, i mean, obviously ours is a special case, but timing could be very important. Yeah, i mean, i would even say that, you know, i’ve had another client that they’re not as completely tied. You know, i mean, obviously, easter seals is a little bit, but i’ve had other clients that they have their donors is used to one specific time i’ve had one of my clients actually had a really, really big time of year at thanksgiving, even bigger than, you know, december thirty first, which i know is going yeah, that shot’s just about everybody non-profit dahna it’s, just when you have individuals who have been trained when you have a supporter base that really that really connects you with a specific time of year specific event, you know, don’t try to just abandon it, you know, that work with where the lose your strength, lots of guests of talking about you know, where are the where are your constituents? Goto where they are not where you want them to be, but but when are they about to know what time that was? That was that save the turkeys hyre labbate all where there was a rescue mission, actually, okay, they basically had a big food. They had to basically a big feast, a big kind of serve the homeless, you know, make sure that everybody has a good thanksgiving that type. Of thing. Okay. All right. So see that connection? What are some things that in our last couple of minutes weaken? Leave listeners with that they can implement immediately. I think one of i think i think it was our optimization tests optimization test that you can implement right away without saying depends on your you know, your what way could be general enough, but leave people with some thing they can think about right away. What would you suggest? Well, this is almost a kind of ah final thought. But one thing that i will point out and we stress really heavily in the session is number one rule of testing is always, always, always tested because we have seen just as camp had mentioned. You know? I mean, there are different things that will work for one organization, but won’t work for another because the two different organizations have an audience that is slightly different. That has different expectations. You know the same thing. Like what we were talking about. You know, if i were to have any of my clients go out really strong for an easter push, it’s probably not gonna work that well. But at the same time, cam could probably pull up a thousand different examples data that shows no, this really works because it works for one organization, but not necessarily another okay, cam, final thoughts that my answer is gonna be you’re gonna hate it, but it’s a depends it if you know what you want to test, like you have that inkling, like i think this is going to do well, or i think we’re not getting it because that’s what you need to test its it’s, your gut, and then you just go from there if you see an email or a website that you like, figure out why you like it and test that a great thing to test too is also just kind of those because you reminded me. But you know how every one of us can probably come up with an example of ceo or the big guy who came up to us with oh, we should really do this. I saw this thing and way should do it. A test can be a great way to say, well, yes, we did it, but we didn’t really waste a whole lot of time and money on. That idea. And by the way, it didn’t worry. Ok, that’s. Very good. That could work with boardmember ideas. Yes, it has to be the executive director, very often. Excellent, thanks very much, all right. Matt burghdoff is senior account executive at donordigital and cam robin’s, interactive marketing manager for easter seals and cam and matt, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. Real pleasure. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen. Thanks very much for being with us. My thanks to everybody at inten, the non-profit technology network. We’ve got live listeners, of course, let’s start abroad in tokyo and kawasaki, japan konnichiwa, beijing, ni hao and soul and yon gene, south korea on your haserot new york, new york, new bern, north carolina, somerville, new jersey live listener love to each of you and all our live listener loves never forget the podcast listeners podcast pleasantries, everybody listening whatever the heck you listening to the podcast generosity siri’s they host multi charity five k runs and walks and they are sponsors of non-profit radio. You probably may be difficult for you to generate enough runners tau host your own event. So makes sense to team up with other non-profits and that’s what generosity siri’s does. They’re runs our fun. I am seed one in last november in in brooklyn they have also a charity. Support team that helps you with your fund-raising you talk to these people on the phone, you don’t have the live chat with them by text, you talk to them and naturally you have the dashboard and online tools as well, but there is this charity support team that you can talk, too. I like that multi-channel ready means that you can have an event with a small number of runners, because when you put your charity together with all the others in the event, you have hundreds of runners and general see siri’s takes care of all the back end stuff. You can talk to the ceo, dave lynn, about becoming one of their multi of one of their charity partners. Events coming up in new jersey, miami, new york city and philadelphia. Please tell dave you’re from non-profit radio he’s at seven one eight five o six nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com last week’s show was the ceo barbara newhouse. It was a google plus hang out on air. We did it at the chronicle of philanthropy studio in washington. The show was devoted to the ice bucket challenge. The video from the hangout is at tony martignetti dot com and that’s tony’s take two for friday, tenth of october fortieth show of twenty fourteen marie sample is back she’s, our monthly prospect research contributor and the prospect finder she’s, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now she’s our doi n of dirt cheap and free. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple welcome back, maria. Hey there, tony. How are you? I’m doing very well. How are you today? Just fine. Thank you. Go that’s. Good. We’re here to talk about gifts in-kind on this fall afternoon what way are we are? But i first need to just quickly mention to you that apparently i am having a three year anniversary with your show this week. Really? You’ve been tracking your well, you know, who’s been tracking it is lincoln. Oh, really? You saw an anniversary notice on lincoln. This is this is your year. Yet it sent out an anniversary notice. Tio, my connections and i all of a sudden started getting all these congratulatory notes this week. So i thought well, that isn’t that appropriate. That here is my my weak. Teo, reconvene with you. So it’s been three wonderful years. Wow, that’s really something i would if you had asked me, i would have thought it was i would’ve said it was more like two holy cow that’s. Terrific. I get those notices, i but i don’t always read all of them. Usually i just read the birthday notices. I don’t always read all the work anniversary notices, but i also noticed they send them out throughout the month, so they don’t. They don’t only come in the beginning. So maybe i just maybe i haven’t gotten yours yet. You’re three three year anniversary, but happy anniversary. I’m glad you’ve been with me for three years. Thank you for having me for three years. That’s. Wonderful. Oh, thank you. My pleasure gifts. In-kind let’s. Make sure everybody understands what a gift in-kind is. Yes. That’s, right. Let’s do that first before i get thrown off into jargon jail first, first out of the gate here, so gets in-kind would really be anything other than monetary donations. So typically they would be considered donations of food, clothing, medicines, furnishings, office. Equipment, building materials and, you know, even sometimes services that air provided by somebody could be considered ah, gift in-kind as opposed to a gift in cash that they might give to your organization. So if they’re providing some sort of a specific service and then not charging you for it, i know that, tom, you know, sometimes consultants will do that on on a pro bono basis, so that would be considered a gift in-kind as well, i could throw out another example that i’ve worked on a few times gifts of artwork, art collections are also gifts in-kind i worked on a really interesting one once it was a presidential memorabilia collection, and it included a picture it included the resin, the one of the nixon resignation letters, original signed i think there were five or six that he signed, and it also had a picture of that famous picture of jimmy carter, menachem begin and anwar sadat. You know, the three of them are shaking hands well thiss was a deep into six figure art collection, but so they can be really interesting on dh cars. I’ve worked on a couple of classic car donations also, which can be quite valuable. I know you mentioned automobiles, i was just thinking of classic automobiles, but yeah, they they could be they could be kind of fun to work on. Well, so, you know, it must have been interesting. I’ve never had the opportunity myself to be working directly with, uh non-profit while they’ve been, you know, fortunate enough to receive something, you know, of that type of value on also, you know, it got me to thinking about, you know, well, what if i were a small to midsize non-profit and have the millionaire next store living in our community and maybe people didn’t even realize they were housing any type of art collection or one or two even significant pieces in their home and you know what? You know, what do you do? What is the next step that you do if you find out that perhaps somebody left it to you and there will or they could be making the gift while they’re still alive? When then, you know, it got to be really complicated as i started to research this a little bit to try and figure out well, what is the non-profit need to do first in terms of valuing the artwork. So what did you do? I’ll tell you what organizations i kind of came up with that are reputable in terms of places you would turn to, but i’m curious to know how it worked out. How did you appraise the artwork? Yeah, well, let’s, let’s, take a step back and make sure he understands the for for a gift that’s valued over five thousand dollars. And again, like maria said, this is we’re talking about non-cash gifts. So not this is not cash or stock, but something other than that. Over five thousand dollars, the irs requires what’s called a qualified appraisal and that’s a term of art and the qualified appraisal has certain requirements and a qualified appraisal. It has to be done by a qualified appraiser and that’s also a term of art, and they’re certain credentials that the irs requires the place that i turned for the presidential art collection anyway was the the american association of appraisers. I think i’m pretty sure they’re based here in new york, and i believe i contacted them first for some recommendations specific, too presidential memorabilia, was it perhaps the american? Society of appraisers, because my research shows that they’re the oldest organization founded in nineteen thirty six and they think they are in the new york area, okay, could have been but i think there’s another one too, which i think is triple a american association of appraisers or american appraisal association. So we could try either one of those. But years is yours is more bonified because you actually research that i’m remember i’m living off the top of my head. Yeah, i actually am. I can actually post a list, uh, post show onto your facebook page, but there were actually sort of six top societies or associations, if you will that that my research turned up one was that one i just mentioned the american society of appraisers which according to this particular webs site that lists them, says that this one is the oldest and then there’s the art dealers association of america, thie appraisers, association of america there’s a triple a yeah, there’s that could’ve been it. Okay. Thie appraisal foundation, thie international society of appraisers and the private art dealers association. So i thought that was all interesting that i got to wondering if you can actually turn to any of the major houses that actually, you know, the auction houses like those that you might be seeing featured on something like antiques roadshow. Ah, but i didn’t know if that was, uh, if people turned to those types of auction houses to help, you know, evaluate the worst oven item, certainly an auction house, i suppose, would get involved once there it actually want to, you know, offload that particular items so that they will end up having the cash. Uh, i i would imagine that would be the case for any non-profit other than a museum who would want that gift, perhaps as part of their dahna display? Yeah, it’s it’s ah, it could go broader than that, you know, there are ways that non-profits khun use gifts in-kind in their mission that that are permissible and are not so obvious, like hospitals can use artwork because they can decorate waiting rooms and hallways and things. One of the classic car donations that i worked on was for a university, and we were anticipating using the classic convertible in there athletic recruiting because they thought that seventeen eighteen year olds when they’re thinking about what college to go to to play sports might love driving around in a being driven around in a fifty seven chevy, i’m pretty sure that’s what it was convertible, so there are different charitable uses that they’re not as obvious as like you said, you know, the museum, there can be other charitable purposes for for these types of gift now, yeah, i hadn’t thought of that. That sounds great, actually, i can i can really see how an organization might want to step back and think about how it could fit in, as you said to their overall mission or two attraction, like in the case of the college or university there with their son sports department, really, and of course, there’s also the other examples you gave you no services could be gifts in-kind so that’s, obviously being used used up metoo immediately a point that i want to make, too is sort of subsumed in what we’re saying we’ll make it explicit. You have to find the right kind of appraiser. There are, like i mentioned presidential memorabilia there, our appraisers air specialising just that. So if you had a ah fine art photograph. That was being donated to you. You need to find someone who specializes in not only find our photography, but they may even specialize in the particular photographer the artist or the era, if it’s ah it’s ah it’s, not a contemporary piece of art. So you have to find and this goes into the irs requirements. Do you have to find someone who specializes in precisely what it is you’re being given? If it’s an automobile, automobile appraisers, it’s just like a medical specialist, you have to find the right kind of person. Maria, let me ask you about trying to find gifts. In-kind i mean, these don’t only come from wealthy people. I don’t want people to be left with that idea. They’d only come from people of wealth. What about ways of ah, finding gifts in-kind in your community? Well, that got me to thinking about not not just the individuals in your community who, um i might be capable of doing this. But then i started thinking about all of the corporate programs that are in place, for example, that have gifts in-kind as part of their overall corporate social responsibility, so they may have a corporate giving program a corporate foundation, then they may have a separate set of programing related to in-kind on dh. Then i was wondering, well, how could a non-profit potentially find who are the corporations in my area? Or, you know, i’m a non-profit in need of, um, you know, whatever women’s closing to help the women in our shelter be closed in the winter months or something like that? You know, where could i find that actually found? Sure, there’s multiple websites, but i found a non-profit website that that looked like it would really be helpful front for your listeners to know about and it’s a good three sixty. Have you heard about that one? Oh, i don’t know it is what is a good three sixty dot or ge? Yeah, good three, sixty dot or ge and so you can go into this if you are a non-profit and you’re you’re in search of product donations. Um and you can go. You can see the companies that are there and then, if you’re a company that wants to list your product donations, you can list what you have available on dh, of course, if you’re an individual. That would just like to donate to this particular or a good three. Sixty dot org’s. You can do that as well. They’re looking for monetary donations. Always. So i just thought it was a pretty interesting, almost like a clearinghouse. It looks like to me. Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s, why you’re our die end of dirt cheap and free. Anything else you found out there about trying to find these types of gif ts? Um, uh, i was thinking about this might be more suitable for organizations that are, you know, related to being near the water or maritime or marine environment organizations. But you and i have touched upon yacht’s in the past and trying to figure out, you know, yacht owners and so forth. But, you know, sometimes there will be people who would like to actually donate their yacht, just like people would want to donate a car supposed to try to sell it on their own. So boatinfoworld dot com would allow you to search by state or county or zip code of for a list of boat owners near you. So, you know, if we have anybody in the, you know, marine related industry listening to the call, they might want to check out boatinfoworld dot com to get a list of boat owners. Um, and it could be something that they would want to start cultivating relationships with those individuals getting them and involved in cultivation events, etcetera. You always go the marine wear because you have a sailboat. I know you don’t have any in-kind wave that in dahna that’s, ok, you are you donating your sailboat? No, not anytime soon, you know, okay, you work quick, answer that, too, okay, okay, where l should we go with this? What if, in terms of, well, i’m sorry? Was there anything more about finding potential gifts? In-kind or is we exhausted that um then i start thinking about real estate, and i was wondering, well, how would you find out if you want it to proactively find if there is real estate, that could be potential for donation? And i was thinking, well, i guess if you got involved in developing a solid relationships with realtors in your area or, you know, even the banks that you know, unfortunately, these last few years, we’ve seen such high foreclosure rates and so forth there might be some opportunity there if you have conversations with bankers in your community or realtors to find out about some potential properties that could become available, you know, before as a donation. All right, we have to go out for a couple minutes. We come back. I have a couple of tips about real estate gifts that marie is talking about, and we’ll keep going on gif ts in-kind stay with us. You didn’t think that tooting getting thinking you’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. Nothing. Good. Have you ever decided to reinvent yourself? Are you navigating a new life’s journey? Are you an aspiring artist that’s looking for direction? This is kevin, barbara, ll, and my new show, coffee talk three point oh, is your new best friend. Tune in live to hear successful professional artists and their inspiring real life adventures. Mondays at two p m eastern, right here at talking alternative dot com stand neo-sage this’s. The way we’re hosting part of my french dinner sitting guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french. Is that coming language? Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us. Pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p. M. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. More listeners have joined us from south korea on your haserot and also taipei. Taiwan has joined us. Ni hao. Maria simple. Hey, there. What would i say in jersey? What up? How you doing? Yeah, i doing that’s just yeah, i was born in jersey and i was raised there, so i don’t like that that kind of organized crime overtone around new jersey. But sopranos obviously hit that home. A couple of things that i wanted to reinforce about real estate that that you have brought up real estate can be a very, very good gift for non-profits it can also be a really lousy gift. You have to do your due diligence around real estate and basically it’s the same as if you were buying a home or a condor coop. Do the same dude illegitimate before you put that charity name in the the the chain of title. So you want to do an environmental assessment phase one? If that raises any issues, then you have to go to a face to assessment. If the land has buildings on it or a home, whatever you want to make sure that the building is all in code. So there’s there’s, that kind of an inspection, a building inspection title search to make sure that there wasn’t. There isn’t some defect in the title. Basically, all the things you would do as i said that you, if you were, if you were buying the place to yourself, whether it’s got buildings on it or not, before you took ownership of a piece of property, you want to make sure that it’s clean in all those ways environmentally title code and building inspection wise. Oh, and if you do all that, then you can end up with a really valuable gift of real estate. So you you bring up an interesting point. I hadn’t really thought about that chain of title that you just mentioned. Hyre so if i’m understanding you correctly, does that mean if if somebody were to approach an organization let’s say while they’re alive and they say, you know, i’ve got this undeveloped piece of land we want to leave, too, i would like to donate to your non-profit organization and if you decide to say pay well, great and take that piece of wind and then immediately sell it and let’s say, it’s sold within, you know, three months time and if you didn’t go through maybe something in the environmental assessment and then somebody down the line says, wow, i can’t believe x y z non-profit ever owned this piece of land it happens to have had, you know, contamination on it or whatever you’re saying it could end up coming to bite you in from almost like a pr perspective if your name’s somehow attached to it this’s like a law school exam there’s a bunch of things in the inn that hypothetical you just gave me the p r yes, but i think even potentially worse than that, although pr can be pretty bad there’s a potential for legal liability if it’s if it’s an environmental mess, then all the owners in the past and i’m not environment the lawyer, but i know a little bit a very little about it all the all the owners in the past are potentially liable for not having cleaned it up or possibly for having contributed to the mess. So and that applies to individuals to so yeah, that’s this is why we do environmental assessments. You can you can get in some really sticky legal trouble if they’re turns out later on a couple of owners later or something to be an environmental problem. And, you know, you didn’t know about it. You didn’t insure against it, things like that. Go ahead. I was just wondering, what about in the case of somebody who is willed a piece of land or a property that had some sort of an environmental issue from years ago. Let’s let’s, you know, think about somebody who may be owned. Ah ah, family run gas station for a number of years or something like that or on oil related business oil tanks or something. And then the spouse dies. The person continues to all the remaining spouse, continues to own the property, has no heirs and decides to leave it at her will to a non-profit so then i’m wondering what the impact is mean in this case kayman non-profit just say no, we don’t want it. No, thank you. Yeah, again. Sounds like a law school, hypothetical, by the way, i do recognize your turning the tables on me, asking me questions on guy and i don’t appreciate it. So you may not reaching your four with me? Yes, thie through the amount of time that you have to renounce a gift, i’m pretty sure that’s what it’s called in a will varies from state to state. It’s typically ninety days or, you know, maybe longer for any beneficiary of a gift by will to turn it down you don’t have to accept something that’s in a will, so if in your hypothetical the non-profit would want to do its due diligence around that real estate before it accepted the gift and within the time period that it can still turn it down, if it doesn’t want it. The only thing that came out of your earlier one was you said the the charity sells the real estate that’s a whole other issue. If it’s sold within three years of the time of the date of the donation, then that has implications for the donor’s charitable deduction. The donor’s charitable deduction gets reduced because if the charity unloads, i’m using an unkind word, but i’m not using a loaded word but gets rid of that gift within three years of the date of donation that it’s presumed that the donation was not part of their charitable mission, not within their charitable mission and therefore that the irs goes back to the donor who claimed the donation and that and the deduction associated with it possibly years earlier and reduces it from a fair market value to a cost basis. Don’t a deduction on that could be a huge difference. Between what it costs the donor to get something and what the market value of it was when they made the gift so big implications if charity does not use a gift if does not use a gift for at least three years, i have to go out in about a minute. Maria so i kind of took over your segment, but but you were asking me questions. So it’s your fault? Um, well, no, i mean, you know, you’ve given us so much food for thought, really? And i think, you know, the bottom line is you really have to be able to, you know, seek out the right appraisers, seek the advice of financial and law professionals when you’re going to be getting any sort of a significant gift. Ah, oven in-kind gift any non-cash related gift that you really do need todo your homework and and ah, and know what, what to look for here, i think it’s, good stuff. There are a couple of irs publications that will help you publication five twenty six, which is called charitable contributions and also publication five sixty one, which is about gifts, in-kind and those qualified appraisals and qualified appraisers i was talking about, okay, maria, we got to leave it there. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, tony maria simple are doi n of dirt cheap. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter she’s at maria simple next week, you ex user experience secrets revealed and better tech r f p’s. Those requests for proposals those were both recorded it in t c twenty fourteen, the non-profit technology conference last may. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com generosity. Siri’s sponsors non-profit radio generosity. Siri’s dot com or seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. San liebowitz is our line producer show social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. 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Video: ALS After Ice Bucket Challenge

Last week on Nonprofit Radio I interviewed Barbara Newhouse, the ALS president and CEO.

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Don’t despair. Here it is. My takeaways are below.

Takeaways:

— Ice Bucket Challenge yielded $115 million and 2.4 million new donors

— roughly half the donors expressed interest in remaining engaged

— no spending and allocation plan until November

— there’s so much to tell, you really should watch the video

Next week on Nonprofit Radio:

Maria Semple, our monthly prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder, returns to talk about finding in-kind gifts.

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