Tag Archives: crowdfunding

Nonprofit Radio for January 17, 2022: Legal Outlook For 2022

Gene Takagi: Legal Outlook For 2022

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi returns for a mix of checklist items and emerging trends. It’s a good time to look big picture at your HR investments, corporate docs and financials. Also, what to look out for in crowdfunding, donor disclosure, data protection, and more. Gene is principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group (NEO) and our legal contributor.


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[00:02:10.34] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of proto psychosis if you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show Legal Outlook for 2022, Gene Takagi returns for a mix of checklist items and emerging trends. It’s a good time to look at big picture items like your HR investments, corporate docs and financials also though what to look out for in crowdfunding donor disclosure, data protection and more, jean is principal of the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group Neo and our legal contributor On Tony’s take two 50% off planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. It’s always my pleasure to welcome back Gene Takagi to the show. You know who he is. It’s almost it’s almost superfluous for me for me to do the intro. But but jeanne deserves it. He’s well credentialed and I want to make sure that he gets his due introduction. Gene Takagi are legal contributor and managing attorney of Neo, the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group in saN Francisco. He edits that wildly popular nonprofit law blog dot com, which you should be following and he is a part time lecturer at Columbia University. The firm is at neo law group dot com and he’s at jeanne, Welcome back.

[00:02:11.94] spk_1:
Great to be back. tony how are you?

[00:02:13.98] spk_0:
It’s always a pleasure. Thank you. I’m well happy New Year.

[00:02:17.99] spk_1:
Happy New Year.

[00:03:05.74] spk_0:
Thank you. And let’s, so let’s let’s talk about the new year. Um and just before we do I want to remind folks that not too long ago we have genes one, our legal audit which you might want to look back at. That was a sort of a condensed version of some of what we’re gonna talk about today. Although we have lots of new subjects to talk about today too. But there was the one our legal audit and also with jean recently Risk management Part one and then a different show. Risk Management Part two. So those are resources that you can look back at just from a couple of months ago and we’ll go into and and those go into more detail on some of what we’re gonna talk about today jean. Uh where would you like to start for the new year, throw it open, throw it, I throw it open to you. What would you like to start with?

[00:03:58.64] spk_1:
So it does seem like kind of this chance that restarting, getting reenergized and thinking about our organizations and where we wanted to go. Um Yes, we have to keep in mind some of those um risks that we talked about in previous shows but we also have to think about kind of where we want to go. What of our, what our dreams are um what our vision is for the organization? Had we properly captured it? Um, what is our mission? Is that sort of properly captured? Is everything because our environment seems to be changing week by week. It seems to be new stuff that comes up that we have to consider. Are we still on track with where we want to go? So having these sort of broader discussions. I like sending those organizational priorities for the new year.

[00:04:06.64] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Um, what would you, what what priority would you like to start with?

[00:06:07.94] spk_1:
Sure. So, um, being the lawyer, I say, okay, let’s talk about legal compliance just to make sure we’ve got some systems in place, mission and values, which we’ve frequently emphasized them when we’ve had discussions about not just existing to further your mission, but to do it in a way that advances your values and if equity and inclusion of part of those values, then, you know, that’s something you should be thinking about as well, definitely considering some of the trends that are out there. And I know we’ll get into that a little bit later in the show, but also including kind of the times that we’re we live in and acknowledging that yes, we’re under the impact of Covid, which seems to be shifting constantly in both how it’s affecting us and how we might need to respond to it. The great resignation, which certainly isn’t completely unrelated to the Covid, but that is a huge trend and movement as we’re trying to figure out how do we keep our workers, are we burning them out? The mental health issues that are, you know, hitting pretty much all of us, um, from the isolation, remote, working from the uncertainties of health, from sick family members and loved ones and all of that and saying, well, are we going to be able to keep our team together? Should we be keeping our team together the way we’re working now? Do we need to shift our work practices? Do we need to shift what type of benefits for giving to them? All of those things have got to be sort of raised? And I would say raise at the board level, you know, together with the executives and senior management team. Let’s talk about it. Let’s brainstorm think about this and get what our organizational priorities are this year, because things can change rapidly and rapid change if you don’t have any plans um, to anticipate some of them don’t have contingency plans can force you into very, very stressful times where immediate actions are necessary and you can sometimes make bad decisions if you’re under that type of time stress. So

[00:06:18.63] spk_0:
then it because then it becomes a crisis

[00:06:20.30] spk_1:
right? Exactly.

[00:06:48.64] spk_0:
And and a crisis in staffing, especially knowing how hard it is to hire folks now, you know, you talked about, you know, keeping the team together or should we keep should we keep the team together? But, you know, I’m sure you’re seeing it with your clients. The difficulty in hiring, you know, you want to, that, that, that’s a, that’s a huge factor in, you know, do we have the right team? Well, putting the right team together, it’s gonna take a lot longer than it used to?

[00:08:01.94] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. And if you’re talking about retention, you got to figure out what are you going to invest in this? I know you want to, you know, provide as much as you can to your beneficiaries. But if you’re not really considering the team of people in, you know, on your team that are providing those services that are supporting those services, the whole thing can collapse. So just remember where your infrastructure and when your groundwork is and how important the human resources are in your organization to being able to deliver services and provide goods for your charitable missions. So really important not to neglect that. And that requires an investment both on retention and if you aren’t able to retain everybody and you need to recruit, you’re gonna have to be able to show what you’re going to invest in those new employees and give them time to learn. You can’t expect them to perform like experience people have, um, in the past. So it’s, you know, some patients, um, and definitely investment in education and training and orientation, um, and all the rest and again, um, to the extent that your executive is probably also overwhelmed with everything else going on. The board is really pivotal in trying to be able to come up with plans that help invest in their teams.

[00:08:10.44] spk_0:
This goes to legal audit the conversation we had a few months ago. You’d like to see a review of governing documents to.

[00:09:31.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I I always think that that’s a great thing to check out in the new year. Just even if you have somebody, you know, a higher up kind of a board member or where your executive or senior manager take a look At your articles and bylaws, even spending 30 minutes on it and saying is our mission really reflected in these documents or have we evolved into something else? And these documents are like stale and old and outdated now in that case those documents still rule. So if you have the I. R. S. Or a state regulator coming in audit you, if you’re not performing within that mission statement in your articles and bylaws, you could be acting completely out of compliance and worst case scenario, you can really threaten the organization through penalties, etcetera. So that’s something to take a look at. Also just take a look at a lot of organizations. I find out their their boards, they’re like, oh, you know, we forgot to elect them. You know, we, we, you know, we’ve had terms, you know of two years but they’ve been on for like 10 years and we’re happy with them. So we just don’t do elections that can be really, really harmful as well for multiple reasons. But you know, sit back, see what you’re doing and what you’re not doing consistent with your articles and bylaws. And if you need to change things determine that you have to change. And if you need the help of a lawyer, try to find somebody that can help you with that. And there are some good resources on the web as well.

[00:09:48.64] spk_0:
What’s, what’s one of the good resources?

[00:10:15.04] spk_1:
A little bit of a self plug because I’m a board member, but board source has excellent resources on board of directors, governance things of that nature. Stanford University also has excellent resources in terms of sort of template documents that are just a guide for nonprofits. It’s not one size fits all, but it just gives you a general idea about how some things operate. Um, so those are just too good resources to look at.

[00:10:18.35] spk_0:
And, and again, we, we talked about this extensively in the show called your one

[00:10:24.34] spk_1:
hour legal audit.

[00:10:30.14] spk_0:
You have some last one. You have some financial performance advice for the new year.

[00:13:04.74] spk_1:
Yeah. Well I think probably, um, most people take a look at their financials throughout the year on the board level and on the executive level. Um, but the new year, you’ve actually sort of completed your financials and they might not be, um, in final form yet, but you might have what some people call it pro form, a set of financials, um, sort of close to final, where you get to assess what you’ve done in the year, you know, for, for most organizations, this goes without saying, but you want to make sure that you’re performing in a way that you’re not becoming insolvent. So you want to make sure what your balance sheet looks like and whether you have net assets, um, if you don’t have net assets, that means that you are either insolvent or, you know, in the zone of insolvency, you have to think about how you’re going to address that very serious issue. And I would say you don’t have internal expertise on dealing with it, get outside help right away if that’s the case. But your, your statement of revenues and expenses as well, are you sort of operating what people call in the black so that there is, you know, some net income in there or are you operating in the red where you’re very concerned because you’re losing money, timing is always important. So it’s misleading to look at one year in isolation because sometimes grants are given in one year, but they’re actually uh received in another year. So the timing issue can pose different challenges about reading financials. So you want to be able to read it sort of collectively through a multi year period just to know where you stand. And again, if board members aren’t able to help an executive and the executive feels like they need some help with understanding financials, to reading financials invest in everybody’s training in this area and there are a lot of people, even pro bono, that, that are offering this training pro bono and a lot of resources on the web. So make sure you understand your financials and what they’re indicating. You don’t need to know every single financial ratio that you know, business people use, but just generally no. Are you healthy financially or are you trending bad? And if you have several years where you’re in the red, where you, where you’re not making money, it looks like you’re bleeding money, then that might be indicative of some change that’s necessary in order to make your organization sustainable on an ongoing basis. So again, you don’t want to hit crisis mode financially. So this is a good chance, take a look at your financials, not just last year, but over a multiyear period and see where you are, get help if you need it.

[00:15:08.54] spk_0:
We have a show that I replayed, oh, I think within the past six months, uh, the guest was Andy Robinson. So you could go to tony-martignetti dot com and just search his name Andy Robinson, but it was something like teaching your board basic financials and he wrote a book, I’m pretty sure it was published by charity channel, uh, with, with a title similar to that. So if you, and the show is a few years old, but reading financial statements and and balance sheets hasn’t changed much in probably 100 years. Um, so it’s just all in and out now now, it’s all in Excel. But uh, so if you’d like some help with that, there is a, there is a show where Andy Robinson was the guest talking about, you’re improving your boards, financial literacy. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications, your 2022 communications plan. Does it have lots of projects? Lots of writing projects? You can get the biggest projects off your plate and outsource them. Free up staff time to devote to the work that it’s not feasible to have others doing for you. Like the annual report, just because it’s been done in house in the past, doesn’t mean it has to be done in house this year. What about research reports, White papers, your other heavy lift pieces. Do you need help with writing projects in 2022, Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Now, back to legal outlook for 2022 with Gene Takagi. Okay, so let’s talk about some trends then, jean, you have a, you have a case we haven’t talked about, we haven’t talked about an actual case for a while. Americans for prosperity.

[00:19:16.54] spk_1:
Yeah. So um that was a huge U. S. Supreme Court case at least huge for the nonprofit sector. Um, but with deeper implications for if I if I’m not over hyping it for democracy itself. So um so americans for prosperity, Foundation versus Banta, who was the California Attorney general basically it was about the schedule be disclosure of donors who donated more than $5000. So for nonprofits who know how to prepare their form 19 nineties, you’ll know that on schedule B of your form 1990. Eur actually disclosing to the I. R. S. It’s not public information. Um But it’s to the I. R. S. The name and address of your donors who donated more than $5000. Now that hasn’t changed, you still have to disclose it to the I. R. S. But certain states, including California where volunteers from as the attorney general um New york I believe New Jersey I believe Hawaii also included Um all asked for a copy of the 990 including an unredacted schedule B to be given to the state regulator because they also want to look at that information for state law compliance purposes. A lot of them are concerned about donors who give money but get something back in return that’s not being disclosed. So if they ever have to have an investigation of that, that information turns out to be very helpful to the state to be able to say ah they were giving money but they also took in this huge benefit, this huge contract for example, which you know, reap them millions of dollars. Um So there was a legal case um that went up through the courts um finally hit the U. S. Supreme Court and the A. G. Lost here, The California G. Um So the court decided and we know the court’s composition is fairly conservative right now. The court decided that uh the states don’t have this right. Um It was based on the fact finding of the lower courts which is a little bit unfortunate because if the higher court could have considered more facts, then it might have been decided a different way but based on kind of how how our legal system works and and and how the Supreme Court works and the composition of the Supreme Court. They held that, hey this is not disclosed able to the states essentially that’s the impact of it. The broader impact on why I said democracy might be uh issue here is because well what about sort of campaign finance disclosures? And what about the I. R. S. Should they be entitled to that information as well? So it’s really helpful in compliance. But the counter argument and why some organizations charities, we’re also um not in favor of the disclosures is because of the protection of the donor. And the old case cited um in this part of the argument was an N double A cp case that said, well, if we disclose our donors, the KKK had threatened to kill all of them. Um And you can see why privacy was important in that issue and this issue, it was nothing like this. I think it’s a Koch brothers, um, kind of funded charity. They wanted really to keep their identity, um, more hidden because they have desires to influence politics in many ways. And if it always gets associated with them, then the impact lessons. So if they can look like they’re ground swells of movements that are funding these things rather than individual donors, um, it looks better for for what they’re trying to do. So that’s, you know, that’s what’s at stake here is not only are the state’s not allowed to get this information that would really help them in state law enforcement of whether there’s diversion of charitable assets that benefit

[00:19:29.74] spk_0:
donors. But

[00:19:30.15] spk_1:
in the broader sense, are we going to allow more dark money to enter into our political systems without knowing that there are donors, heavy donors that back these, you know, politicians or political parties or political movements. So that’s the scary part about this decision.

[00:19:57.94] spk_0:
What’s the, I think infamous Supreme Court case that that allowed the allowed the dark money into, uh, into politics. United

[00:20:02.73] spk_1:
Citizens. United

[00:20:27.54] spk_0:
United. Yeah. Um, All right. All right. And so I just want to repeat this. So this case that Gene was just talking about is americans for prosperity Foundation V. Banta B. O. N. T. A. What about crowdfunding you, you point out that there’s a new crowdfunding law. Hope is this a little more optimistic? I hope?

[00:21:22.54] spk_1:
Uh, well, depending upon how you look at it. And I think in one sense it’s inevitable. Um, a lot of our laws that are developed regarding fundraising, um, don’t even, and never anticipated the internet, right, johnny. So, uh, you know, now crowdfunding platform is, you know, not just the internet, the use of the internet, but it’s a lot of different for profit companies getting involved, um, to enable charities and organizations and people who are not charities to raise funds that look like they could be for charitable purposes, Right? So you want to help victims of a fire, but you want to help them directly, because some individuals said, I want to start a Go fund Me campaign, right? And say, well, you know, chip in 50 bucks and let’s try to get these people some help doesn’t, that doesn’t go through a charity. Often it just goes to this person, right, who promises to give these other people money

[00:21:35.90] spk_0:
and go funding the person’s goodwill. Honestly, yeah,

[00:21:58.14] spk_1:
Go fund Me is, you know, reacted to this and they’re probably the biggest crowdfunding platforms. So they’ve reacted to this in terms of having their own internal policies to help prevent a check. But overall, there’s, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of crowdfunding platforms out there that do this to make a profit. Um, and they may not have those types of controls or checks to not to just, you know, prevent somebody from saying, let’s raise money to help fire victims and then just keeping it. Um, so,

[00:22:11.97] spk_0:
what, what, what is the import of the law for, for us?

[00:23:21.34] spk_1:
So I think the import of the law is, if you’re going to get on and decide, hey, we want to do crowdfunding, um, you’ve got to select your platform provider carefully and this law, which is in California, but is likely to spread across different states in various forms, says, well now, if you’re gonna do that, you’ve got to make sure that this crowdfunding platform is registered. Um, and they’re reporting and there are all sorts of rules involved. So if you have a contract with them, it should be subject to these rules that might say things like, well, if they collect money, they have to give the money to the charity within a certain time period. Right? So they couldn’t say, well, it takes this administration, so maybe a couple of years before you get that, you know, nobody’s gonna be happy with that, but without rules, why not? Um, so these are, this is why it’s important for charities to have rules. The actual details of the rules. So I can see why some people have some, some issue with them. And we haven’t had all of the regulations yet, they’re still in discussion. So this is very, Still very trending, but the crowdfunding law, the law, the general law that’s in place now will become effective in California in 2023, and the regulations are being developed right now,

[00:23:58.04] spk_0:
let’s turn to remote work, which is obviously so much more common now. Hybrid work, you know, return to work dates are being pushed off and off. Um What what are what are what are what trends are you seeing? What should be on, will you be on the lookout for with respect to uh remote work and employment law issues?

[00:25:10.84] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s, you know, this is a really tricky area. Um you know, for sure, Covid where people were suddenly not permitted to to go indoors in some cases for months. Um and who knows if, you know, we’re going to return to some of those scenarios with the omicron variant out there, We’re hoping that it’s less um severe in terms of its impact, even if it might be a more transmissible, but if we if we keep worrying about this and saying, you know, our workers aren’t comfortable coming to work, even if the law allows them to come to work. Um Maybe we’re going to let people work remotely, and many of us have gone full remote, some of us have gone back to partial returns, some have gone back to full returns and then gone back, you know out the other way and said, okay, you know, it’s at the workers discretion whether they want to come in or not. So what makes us a little bit tricky. Um is that you don’t control the work environment as the employer, if they’re working at home, right? Um but that becomes the work environment, if they’re doing work from home, that’s their work environment, and, you know, the employer is responsible for the work environment if they should get hurt, for example,

[00:25:22.94] spk_0:

[00:26:56.24] spk_1:
So it becomes a little bit tricky about, well, how do you, how do you handle that for workers comp reasons, for safety reasons, for OSHA reasons? Um and I think there’s an understanding by regulators that, you know, this is out of control of most small businesses, small charities and, you know, to to that extent, we’re not really gonna look to enforce things on that level, but there are other things that, that are also concerning, because not everybody goes when, when they decide to work remote, we work in the same city or in the same state, right. A lot of us um have decided to, you know, maybe move back with family, which might be in another state. In some cases it could be another country, or some of us have decided to travel and spend a little bit of time, you know, in different places. Um So how does allow treat that? And basically, you know, the old rules, which are the rules, many of us are stuck with. Um the old rules are, well, you have to comply with the laws where the worker is doing the work, so if you have a worker in new york who’s now working remotely and came out to florida, well, then all the employment rules regarding worker safety and wage and hour laws and salary, overtime, sick pay benefits, all the florida laws apply to that worker now. Um, and so now it’s like, well, you’ve got to work in florida, you’ve got to think about, are you qualified to do business in

[00:27:00.21] spk_0:

[00:27:36.94] spk_1:
charity registration in florida? Um, and you may have had no connection to florida before, but all of a sudden you have a worker working there. Um, so a few states, um, and they’re not very many, but a few states that said, well, you know, during covid, we’ve got these temporary rules where we’re relaxed, where you don’t have to do that. And there’s also state tax issues, right? State payroll taxes, and, and other times, all of those things, some states said, you don’t have to worry about it. A lot of organizations are simply not complying with, But,

[00:27:37.49] spk_0:
but you said it’s only a handful of states that said, we’re we’re we’re not enforcing

[00:27:42.14] spk_1:
right. Exactly.

[00:27:43.33] spk_0:
The majority of

[00:29:01.34] spk_1:
states are, Yeah, well, I shouldn’t say they’re enforcing, but they haven’t the old laws or the existing laws still apply. There are no transition laws, so you’re out of compliance. And if they do enforce, which might not be like a, you know, a regulator coming out to you and saying you haven’t done this, it may be your employee is unhappy with something you’ve done, who’s working there and said, hey florida law applies and you haven’t been complying with the florida sort of benefits laws that, that apply. And maybe I could give you more specific example because san Francisco, if you came out to California, your remote employee came out to California, san Francisco has mandatory six hours and not a lot, a lot of states don’t have sick our pay. Um, but all of a sudden if you’re not paying them and they get wind of that, hey, you were supposed to pay me for this and you haven’t been, it’s the employee who could launch the complaint. Um, so it’s just to be careful of these things and, and just as your strategy for charity registration, tony when you’re sort of fundraising all over the country to, to, you’re not going to be able to maybe do all 50 states at once, but just to make sure you’ve got a plan to attack this kind of the same thing here. Um, check out where your employees are, you should know exactly where they are and check each state in terms of how strictly, maybe in terms of enforcing this and start to slowly comply

[00:30:12.74] spk_0:
the implications of state law. Yeah. What about the technology remote work? I don’t know if that’s all been figured out yet and maybe there were, maybe there were stopgap measures during the, during the, the darkest part of the pandemic, but but going forward, you know, tech technology has to be, has to be upgraded. You know, are we gonna, we’re gonna continue providing work phones? Are we going to provide work laptops? What about paying for internet access over the long term? I mean, you know, the internet access can be costly. And if if work is taking up a lot of the bandwidth, isn’t it appropriate for an employer to be paying a portion? And then how do then how does the, how does the, what’s the mechanism for the employee verifying how much they pay and you know, and then what percentage are we gonna cover of that, all the all the technology issues around, around remote work.

[00:30:58.44] spk_1:
Yeah, def definitely. And and as an as an employer, I would say, beyond sort of any legal compliance issues, um, you’ve got a, I think an ethical issue to make sure you’re providing your employees with the tools to do their job. And if you’re allowing remote work, you should make sure that they have the tools. So if they need a computer to be able to access it, so they’re not, they’re not using their personal computer. Um then you should make sure that happens same thing with the telephone. And if, you know, if those are going to be dedicated to work, um it should be explicitly written out that way. But if you force them to use their personal things, there are some states that actually do have laws that say you must reimburse your your employees if they’re using the tools that they need um for for remote work, but just ethically. Yeah.

[00:31:18.74] spk_0:
But then that’s then that raises security issues too. Absolutely. They have any kind of HIPPA protected information on their personal laptop. That’s gonna be a big problem. That that’s I think that’s probably a mistake if you’re dealing with that kind of data. But um

[00:32:01.74] spk_1:
and don’t we probably all have that type of stuff on our personal computers, right? You know, sort of HIPPA protected? We may have had emails like that are saved onto our computers. Um Right. So if if the computer is also being used for work and there’s a work issue that causes that data to be taken or corrupted, like, you know, what’s the employer’s responsibility if they hadn’t provided an alternative, it’s a great point

[00:32:50.94] spk_0:
and and it’s not only hip hop data, but other other personalized data that that maybe on now the personals, the employee’s personal computer, desktop or laptop or phone, you know, how is that? How is that private private data protected? Do they have malware prevention on their on their personal devices so that so that company emails that they’re that they’re using on their personal device aren’t potentially compromised. I mean, the use of the personal equipment raises a lot of technology and and Legal privacy and ethical issues to your right. I mean, if the person is eight or 10 hours a day, they’re using their personal laptop, shouldn’t there be some compensation for that?

[00:34:46.94] spk_1:
Yeah. And I think minimally because no matter you know how much we encourage people to have sort of work dedicated computers provided by the workplace, people are going to use their personal phones. I mean we can go back to the politicians who have all been using their personal funds. So we know it happens regardless of what the best practices. But what can the employer do, they can pay for all of that data protection stuff that that computer should have. Right, tony because now it has much more sensitive information on there and the employer is partly responsible for some of the other information that could be on there and hack. So yeah, employers should help. And that kind of leads us to the whole data security issue as well that everybody’s got to be paying attention to now is really um nonprofits have important data in their system. Some of it is, you know, hipaa protected some of it is other privacy information. You may have employment reviews on there that you don’t want going out into the real world or client, you know, feedback which might be positive. Some of it might be negative sensitive communications, all sorts of stuff that you might find on a work computer and if it gets hacked and if that data gets stolen or if somebody holds the system which might run your programs or aspects of your programs if they cause your system to crash and say that they will only sort of fix it because they’ve hacked and caused the crash. If you pay a ransom, you’ve got all sorts of problems. Uh and maybe some of that may have been mitigated with some basic steps like you mean you’re not going to be, well even the U. S. Government can’t prevent all hackers. I think we we know that, but you can take reasonable steps based on your budget, whatever that might be to to control some of this. So it really is important to have some safeguards.

[00:34:55.74] spk_0:
Another potential category of data is the G. D. P. R. Data. If if if your nonprofit is implicated at all in in that european common law law then or the yeah then then you’ve got those concerns as well.

[00:35:08.94] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. So if you have european donors or you’re doing business with any european entities and you have data from those entities or persons be careful and again, remote working can trigger some of that. So if if they decided to, you know their home or or they want to travel to europe and do their work from there.

[00:35:28.74] spk_0:

[00:35:29.74] spk_1:
all sorts of implications.

[00:37:44.03] spk_0:
Yeah. Absolutely right. People very good point where where people are sitting and where they’re planted when they’re working, It’s time for Tony Take two We’ve got 50% off the tuition for planned giving accelerator. That’s because just last week A donor stepped up someone who believes very deeply in planned giving accelerator and he is offering to pay 50% of the tuition For the 1st 10 nonprofits that take him up on his offer. A couple have already done it as of the time I’m recording, but there are several spots left. So if you’ve been toying with the idea of planned giving accelerator, it’s never going to be cheaper than 50% off. What the way this will work is. You’ll pay the tuition in full, which is $1195 for the six month course. This donor will then make a gift to you of half of that. So you’ll have a new donor, he’ll pay half your tuition. So it ends up being 50% off the full tuition cost. I know the donor, it’s someone I trust you have my word. Your final cost will be half of the full tuition if you’d like to jump on this and be one of the members of what is now our february class. I want to give people enough time for this because it, it just came in last week. So I’m extending, we’re, we’re not gonna start the class until february if you’d like to be part of that february class At 50% off email and we’ll, we’ll talk about planned giving accelerator and whether it can help you launch your planned giving program. Mhm. tony at tony-martignetti dot com. That’s me. That is Tony’s take two, We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for legal outlook for 2022

[00:38:01.22] spk_1:
one and one of the tools to think about and I’m a little bit guilty of this as well um is be careful of public wifi um because that often is an entryway for a

[00:38:03.83] spk_0:
hacker. Yeah, that’s totally unsecured airports, airplanes,

[00:38:09.89] spk_1:
coffee shops,

[00:38:13.42] spk_0:
coffee shops, Starbucks, wherever those are, all unsecured networks.

[00:38:29.32] spk_1:
Right? Meaning that there is the potential for somebody in there who has some malicious intent if they want to be able to hack into to your computer through that public wifi. Unsecured wifi. And there are different systems um but maybe one of the simplest for for those of us who have smartphones, which I think is most of us is you could actually create a sort of a private wifi just

[00:38:52.92] spk_0:
for your smartphone, right? Hotspot? Hotspot and don’t use the unsecured wifi to connect to, you know, use the uh the four G or five G or the five GHZ et cetera.

[00:38:56.17] spk_1:
Right? And that’s something an employer could pay to make sure that the employee has significant data and data plan that can incorporate all the additional data that they may need in their plan because of the work. So again, that would be reasonable and and ethical for the nonprofit employer to pay for their employees to have a higher data plan. Um, if they’re going to to use that and insist as a policy that they do not use public wifi. If they’re using a work computer or a computer that contains work and sensitive information,

[00:39:36.52] spk_0:
all you need is to transmit an email on, on an unsecured wifi that that has a donors credit card number, maybe

[00:39:38.77] spk_1:

[00:39:58.12] spk_0:
birth address, name any, any two of those things together, uh, hacked could be very detrimental to that donor. And you know, whether it ever gets traced back to you is is uncertain, but you’ve, you’ve put your donors privacy at risk in a simple email that has any two of those pieces of information.

[00:40:04.31] spk_1:
And it appears to be a myth, um, when people have relied on, they’re not going to go after us because we’re nonprofits, people don’t go

[00:40:12.29] spk_0:
after. Oh, that’s bullshit. Oh, that’s ridiculous.

[00:40:14.57] spk_1:

[00:40:22.61] spk_0:
I’m working with a client now that, that is a, is in new york city that’s, that’s, um, victim of, of a malware, uh, ransomware, so brought me a ransomware attack.

[00:40:27.61] spk_1:

[00:40:40.41] spk_0:
And they’re keeping it quiet so I’m not permitted to say who it is. But um, yeah, they’ve, they’ve been, they’ve been hindered for weeks and weeks with data accessibility issues.

[00:40:42.71] spk_1:
Yeah. And it’s much more common than we think because organizations do want to keep it quiet because if there is a vulnerability, they don’t want to come and say other hackers come come and attack us, we’re vulnerable. So it may be much more pervasive than we think

[00:40:57.61] spk_0:
and that myth also breaks down along ideological

[00:41:00.04] spk_1:

[00:41:21.61] spk_0:
Some some person on the left may may attack an organization on the right. Some person on the right may attack an organization on the left just because of where the organization stands with respect to the person’s political and ideological beliefs that that that’s enough. It doesn’t matter that you’re a nonprofit. It’s it’s your ideology and your mission. It has nothing to do with your tax exempt status as to why somebody would or wouldn’t go after you.

[00:41:28.41] spk_1:
Yeah and um in these times that those ideological differences have been very um pronounced and. Yeah.

[00:41:41.11] spk_0:
Alright where else should we go? Gene with trends, trends for the new year. Come on.

[00:44:24.69] spk_1:
Um Let’s talk a little bit since we’re talking about technology and data security. Let’s talk a little bit about crypto currency because I find that pretty fascinating. Um There was an organization that came together and bid $40 million on a copy of the U. S. Constitution just a few weeks ago. Um That money the $40 million plus more I think about 47 or $48 million was raised for that purpose in less than two weeks. Um So um Cryptocurrency donors um often have made a ton of money because of the appreciation of cryptocurrencies like. Bitcoin for for those who aren’t super familiar with it. Um And if you donate Cryptocurrency, it’s like donating a non cash asset, meaning that if You bought crypto currency for $1,000 10 years ago and it’s worth now several million dollars, which if you bought the red Cryptocurrency, that might be the case if you sold it, uh you would have a lot of taxes to pay on that appreciation right? The several million dollars of appreciated income that would be subject to capital gains tax. Um So if you sold it and donated some of the proceeds, that would not be a very tax efficient way to donate. When if you donated the Cryptocurrency itself, what you do is you get to take a fair market value deduction of the several million dollars. So you gave several million. So potentially you could deduct that is a charitable contribution and pay no capital gains tax because he never sold it. Um So very tax efficient way of giving um And Cryptocurrency people, wealthy millionaires and others who decided that they wanted see some positive impact um from giving these gifts are are making gifts of Cryptocurrency now and that’s that’s partly why I am so many gathered together to say hey we’d like to fund a charity to buy a copy of the U. S. Constitution so that we can ensure that this constitution is always for the public’s benefit and on public viewership and not sitting in somebody’s house, you know for for their own prestige. Um But that really opens it up, cherish. Think about there’s a lot of these people who made quite a bit of money on Cryptocurrency and a lot of younger people are investing barely heavily in Cryptocurrency now. So it’s something to not sort of blow away if we’re um kind of our age or older, tony to say, Cryptocurrency, what is that? It’s it’s something to really embrace now because it’s it’s not just this exotic tool now, it’s part of regular investment portfolios.

[00:45:56.79] spk_0:
Absolutely, it’s it’s it’s coming and and jean this dovetails perfectly with Our November 15 show of 2021 Bitcoin in the future of fundraising with my guests who are an Connolly and Jason shim who wrote a book Bitcoin in the future of fundraising. So, um it’s do you it’s just more, more sage advice that crypto donations are coming. It’s not a matter of if it’s just when are you gonna get on board now or you’re gonna wait two more years and potentially be behind the curve. Um and as an and Jason pointed out today, there are so few organizations accepting crypto that a lot of people are just searching for. Where can I donate? Cryptocurrency and probably largely, Gene for the reasons you’re describing there, They’re looking for a direct crypto donation to help them with substantial capital gains. Are there specific legal implications of crypto donations that that we need to be aware of or or is it just, you know, you just want folks to know that this trend is, it’s in the middle, it’s happening right now.

[00:48:15.97] spk_1:
So I think, you know, one of the reasons why charities are afraid to take Kryptos because they don’t know what laws apply when they receive the crypto. They’re like, what do we do with this? Um, and there are ways to easily cash that out and turn it into us cash. And in fact, most charities that accept crypto and they’re not a lot, you’re right, tony but most carriers that accept them liquidate them immediately turned them into cash and deposited into fiat currency, like regular paper currency, um, in their bank accounts. Um, So they’re not holding onto the crypto very long at all. One of the reasons why that’s, that can be very important is because there are prudent investor rules for charities that don’t apply to for profits that basically say if you’ve got investment assets, charities, this is not just endowments, but just any sort of investment assets for reserves or for a capital fund or anything you can’t invest. It speculatively, you couldn’t just throw it all in like Apple stock, um that would be too speculative. You have to look at it, uh, through what financial professionals, investment professionals called portfolio theory, are you sufficiently um, have an investment portfolio diversified across several different asset classes? So if one bombs, you haven’t tanked all of your money. Um, and the board of directors have a fiduciary duty to live up to the prudent investment laws that also sort of follow this portfolio theory of how how have you actually divest? Sorry? Um diversify Yeah. Um your your funds across different investment classes to protect yourself and there are different considerations that go along with that. Um But that is one reason why you don’t want to get stuck with all of your investments being in crypto because crypto maybe one of the most volatile type of investments where it can double in a matter of days and it could tank and disappear in a matter of days as well. So depending upon what type of Cryptocurrency you have and there are hundreds if not thousands of crypto types of Cryptocurrency um that have evolved in a lot of people and organizations that are making new coins all the time. So new new forms of Cryptocurrency arising and while we talked about crypto as being a part of more investment portfolios as a normal part of of investments. Now it’s not every Cryptocurrency that would be in that it’s certainly one

[00:48:47.07] spk_0:
1000 right? Some of these thousands trade for thousands of pennies, Thousands Yeah thousands of pennies even you know .0001 three zeros and a one is you know is the value of the currency. Um So. Alright that’s perfect as I said, perfect dovetail to that to that uh that november show because you’re you’re raising the prudent investor rule and and uh portfolio theory.

[00:50:07.66] spk_1:
One more thing on this, tony the forms the I. R. S. Forms for when you get Non cash contributions of more than $500. And how quickly you sell them. Um Also applies to form 82 83 is what the donor needs to sign when they give a non cash contribution of over $500 of over $500. And if it’s over $5000 which many crypto gifts are, they have to get a qualified appraisal for this. So that’s really important. And the Dhoni which is the charity has to sign that form for the donor. And then if the donor the Dhoni, I’m sorry the charity sells it within three years, they have to sign a form 80 to 82. Yeah so that’s again it’s not terribly hard. It sounds like a lot of just legalese I’m blabbing out but it’s not too hard but just take a quick look at those. If you decide that you want to start getting Cryptocurrency and at worst you might ask your donor to find a donor advised fund that takes crypto turns it into cash and then disperses it to the charity. So there are donor advised funds that do that

[00:50:15.76] spk_0:
interesting. Okay so so a Cryptocurrency donation is a non cash donation

[00:50:19.90] spk_1:

[00:50:58.76] spk_0:
Okay and for non cash donations of $500 or more, That’s where your your donor has the implication of i. r. s. Form 82 83. And you as the charity if you sell it within three years which your advice is that they do because it’s of its volatility Then you’ve got the implication of i. r. s. Form 80 – 82. I always thought those were backwards. The donors should have 80 to 82 because that comes first. Then comes 82 83 from the don’t to the Dhoni first the donor has it. Then the charity should be 80 to 82 82 83. But it’s not It’s 82 83 for your donor and 80 – 82 for you.

[00:51:06.16] spk_1:
That sounds like larry david logic. But that’s how I think as well.

[00:51:10.58] spk_0:
Yeah. I’ve been accused of being larry David in lots of ways. Including my my hair when it’s long like it is

[00:51:16.23] spk_1:
now. I’ve

[00:51:33.46] spk_0:
been accused of looking like Larry David. But we’re not complaining, we’re helping. That’s all right. Um Alright let’s leave us with something else. Another trend for the new year that you want us to be thinking about gene. Um

[00:51:36.96] spk_1:
Let me talk a little bit about diversity equity and inclusion. Since we’ve we’ve talked about that in the

[00:51:42.21] spk_0:
past. You could search jean and I have talked about D. I a bunch of times. But

[00:53:46.05] spk_1:
yeah please. You know I think in combination when we talk about the great migration and how the pandemic might be affecting different populations in different ways that we start to think again about kind of? Well if our charity is doing some some mission and we might not think of that mission as being really reflective of of specific races or or anything like that. Um But could D. E. I. B. Important anyway. And I think that’s where we get to think about. Well if we had more perspectives in our organization, if if we’re lacking some of those perspectives now, for example not having a lot of latin thinks Hispanics or blacks or asian americans on the board or in the leadership group, maybe we’re not really thinking about how our services that we’re delivering are affecting different populations differently. Maybe we’re just sort of providing services but we’re focused on urban centers or urban centers where if we’re center based, our center based is in neighborhoods that are much more accessible to uh white populations versus other populations. So getting different perspectives, even if we think of ourselves as being race neutral, which is kind of a charged term. But I’ll just use it for for these purposes. If we think some of us think of ourselves as race neutral and therefore we don’t have to get involved in the D. E. I work. We want to say, well don’t we care about serving our population in a way that’s kind of fair and not just favoring one segment over other segments or just totally neglecting certain segments of the population because they don’t have the same type of access. Have we ever thought about those things and having diversity can help us think about those things. Um, but it has to be done obviously in an inclusive way, which we’ve talked about and I know we just have a few minutes here, but it’s

[00:54:03.34] spk_0:
sort of it’s touching on, you know, not knowing what you don’t know without without having the perspective of diverse populations on your board, in your leadership, then you don’t know how you’re not serving other non white populations. Yeah. And even when we were perceived by other by by non white populations.

[00:55:32.64] spk_1:
Yeah, exactly. And even when we say, well when we look at a group of people and we say diversity, you know, that has one meaning. But sometimes when we just look in our inside our own heads, uh, and when people go unconscious bias, for example, try to think about what that is. It’s like, well if we don’t have the benefit of having different perspectives are being exposed to that all of our lives and none of us have all of the perspectives in our lives. So we were all going to be guilty of some sort of unconscious bias because we just don’t know any better. We we haven’t had other information that would have help develop a sensitivity or understanding or just knowledge of some of the disparities that are out there. So, and and how our organization can be either helping those disparities or hindering them. So just getting a sense of where we’d like to go. I think that can improve employee retention. It can lead us to new areas of employee recruitment and it can make us more relevant as organizations in the future, where if we’re not addressing some of these things, we could find ourselves becoming irrelevant less attractive to future donors, especially younger donors who this is very important to. Um, and so that’s my, my closing thought. Mhm.

[00:55:48.24] spk_0:
All good thoughts for uh, for the new year for 2022, Gene Takagi are legal, legal contributor, Managing attorney of Neo. You’ll find him at nonprofit law blog dot com. He’s also at G attack and you’ll find the firm at neo law group dot com. Gene again, thank you very much. Happy New Year.

[00:55:57.39] spk_1:
Happy New Year. tony

[00:56:47.13] spk_0:
next week. I’m working on it very diligently. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by Turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Do you need help with any of those ready projects in 2022? Get them off your plate. A creative producer is claire Meyerhoff. The shows social media is by Susan Chavez Marc Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein. Mm hmm, thank you for that affirmation scotty Be with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for July 12, 2019: Your Crowdfunding Campaign & CRM + Email + Website

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Moshe Hecht: Your Crowdfunding Campaign
Most crowdfunding campaigns don’t make goal. What are the common denominators for failure and success? Moshe Hecht answers all, and shares his organizational readiness checklist to get you prepared for success. He’s chief innovation officer at Charidy. (Recorded at 19NTC)

Isaac Shalev: CRM + Email + Website
You’ll learn more about the people engaging with you when your CRM, email and website are integrated and talking to each other. We’ll leave you with a plan for getting these technologies together. My guest, also from 19NTC, is Isaac Shalev, president of Sage70.

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Transcript for 448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.mp3 Processed on: 2019-07-15T12:28:32.797Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…07…448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.mp3.945783280.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/07/448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d turn pseudo referees if you made me sweat with the idea that you missed today’s show Your crowdfunding campaign. Most crowdfunding campaigns don’t make goal. What are the common denominators for failure and success? We she Hecht answers all and shares his organizational readiness checklist to get you prepared for success. He’s chief innovation officer at charity that’s recorded at 19 NTC and C R M plus email plus website. You’ll learn more about the people engaging with you when you’re C R M E mail and Web site are integrated and talking to each other. We’ll leave you with a plan for getting these technologies together. My guest also ferment 19. NTC is Isaac Shalev, president of Sage 70 Attorneys Take two. Show number 450 were sponsored by Wagner. C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution specifically for non-profits tourney dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications. Full service, strategic communications and PR turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here is your crowdfunding campaign. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. That’s the 1920 19 non-profit technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. All of our 1990 seasoned reviews are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools for helping non-profits to make an impact. I’m joined down by mushy Hecht. He is the chief innovation officer at charity. That’s with a D. On his topic is why your crowdfunding campaign might fail and how to avoid it. Welcome, mushy. Thank you. Thank you, Tony, for having me on the show. It’s a pleasure. Pleasure. Um, what’s the work at the charity? So we are a crowdfunding platform and consulting service. So we help non-profits run their e-giving days crowdfunding campaigns, and we do the entire back office service for them. So we’ll give them the platform, and then we will give them a a team of marketing specialists and fund-raising consultants to help them succeed in their crowdfunding campaigns. Okay, so your first step in making sure your crowdfunding campaign doesn’t fail might be to engage charity. That’s right. Oh, man. What a free from I just give you 30,000 listeners, and I’m not gonna charge you. You didn’t ask for it, so I’m not going. Um, okay, it should be pretty simple. You got a lot of ideas around. Reasons why these things might I’m over modulating. Why these things might fail. Um, give us some some stats. Most do. Bye fail. You mean not make goal, I presume. Let’s define our terms. So that xero Yeah, that’s a great That’s a great way to start. So yeah. Okay, so the industry would would, you know, measures it by, you know, you set a campaign goal, and then you don’t reach your campaign goal. And that has about a 2/3 of campaigns. Don’t succeed across crowdster have very broad metric. If you go a little deeper into it’s a personal cause. Crowdfunding campaigns success rate is actually much lower than that. We go into non-profits or a little bit hyre. You’re going to creative creative campaigns for businesses and products. They’ll be somewhere depending What platform? Some Some state, 44% success rate, somewhere lower. Um, it’s not great. The success rate is not great and mostly judged by reaching the goal. Now, in our talk, I spoke about a different metric, which is probably more accurate and more helpful metric to of what failure means. Okay, so if you think about and you try to zone in and what did the essential difference between let’s go modern crowdfunding and, you know, just a classic fund-raising. Okay, so before modern crowdfund e-giving at some really great ways to fund-raising direct direct No, you know, you know, face-to-face solicitations, events, andan, even email marketing as of late and social Media Marketing has a laser all great tools to fund-raising to get in front of people into engage and solicit donations. I would, um, I in my view and in my experience, essential core difference of why you would okay, do a crowdfunding. I mean, if you got all those other options, is that when you when you set out to do a crowdfunding campaign, Essentially, what you’re trying to accomplish is to hit a tipping point that the campaign the crowd from the campaign will be so effective that it reaches a threshold. And over that threshold, it reaches a certain Momenta Mme that you don’t need a push it anymore. And it has a life of its own, right? So think about some of the most popular crowdfunding campaigns that we don’t know about what we call us when we, uh, you reach a you reach, um, you have your pioneers, you’re early adopters, and then you reach early majority. That’s right. Tipping point. I’m glad. Yes, Malcolm. So it’s it’s funny mentioned that my entire talk was actually is based on sort of the narrative that we’ve created through for the presentation to make it a little bit, you know, easier to understand is I based it on the Mountain Gladwell book. Oh, on the on the fundamentals. And that book came out in 2000 19 years later. The fundamentals of that book are still very true and can be used as an analogy for what it takes to reach a tipping point. And that’s really what you’re setting out to do, because otherwise just go to classic other ways. Just why put in the work in the effort to try to do a craft in-kind every single Exactly. You gotta start using direct mail to get people to donate to your crowdfunding campaign. Just write a letter, a solicitation letter, eggs. Every single dollar is a struggle, right? So the possibilities is really what you know of this, you know, uber connected world, this World wide web of goodness and kindness that we live in the possibilities of hitting, attempting a tipping point of having the campaign go well beyond your own abilities to take on a life of its own is really what we’re trying to accomplish. So I would say that there’s actually if you use that metric as as as failure, it’s actually a lot more than 2/3. It’s just that that’s hard to measure. Weight have to be really do granular analysis of what can I get? Lots of campaigns and how they trended and over over what beer time. Okay, but yeah, if you apply that measure, I’m sure it’s. But it’s not much worse, less less than 1/3 succeeding Okay. Ah, so what are what’s the best way to? We just dive in and say, What’s the number one? Well, I I thought of something. After all, what’s the number one reason campaigns failed, So there isn’t one reason. And number one number one, what’s the top reason? It’s gotta be a top reason. So mote many of you. Well, what I would say. Probably a top if I had to choose. The top reason is a lack preparation. I’m asking you, like a lack of preparation and the infrastructure set up right in for up front. Okay. What we do, What do you need to do up front? Very good. So you’re getting me through the top? Didn’t you see the questions I gave you before? So, Tony, tell me, um, it’s time for a break. Weather, cps, their accountants. You know what they do. For goodness sake. You’ve heard me say this. You know what CPS do? C p a. Certified public accountants. Do you need one? Do you need a firm? You need a couple, whatever you need. You know what they do? Check them out first at wagner cps dot com. And then you know what to do after that. Pick up the phone, talk to you. Eat duitz. Doom the partner. He’ll tell you whether Wagner CPS can help you. Regular cps dot com Now back to bushy Hecht and your crowdfunding campaign. So that’s actually a good question. Once the number one reason, Yeah. Lack of preparation, I think, um, people they see so we see a lot of graph looks easy, right? It looks like a kn accident. Do it. Do a do a 32nd selfie video. I go on to kickstarter or go fund me. What? According to you, what? What? My intentions are what my goal is what I’m raising money for. And, uh, and then and then people just come like we thought about web sites in 1990 to build it, and everybody will come to it. Not gonna happen. Yeah, doesn’t happen. So there are, um, a few core ingredients that need to go. It’s a new set of we’re talking about upfront, prepped on infrastructure. And these are I would say, these are fresh tools that non-profits need to learn. Okay, um and maybe individually, some of them are, you know, classic tools. But combining them together is really where the magic happens. The glue that brings them all together, that creates that, you know, sort of velocity That helps a campaign take off those two and these air. And I say they’re fresh tools, because there, you know, they’re the these are part of this is possible. I believe that. You know, we hear a lot of saying, like, you know, don’t try to do a, you know, ice bucket challenge for your organization, right? It’s just not realistic. And that’s actually, you know, if if consultant would tell you that I would say the streets looking out for you, he’s not trying to set you up for you. No unrealistic expectations. But I have a bit of a different view in the way my experience on what might what? What I do for a living is we actually work to reverse engineer a an ice bucket challenge and say, What were the ingredients that went into the ice bucket challenge even though it happened by accident again? Okay, organically. It’s not like someone came together. All right, we’re gonna raise under $50,000,000. We’re gonna get the entire world plus the president down. Bill Gates, everything. Here’s the plan. Follow blueprint. Do it. But l s had some things in place. Well, they’re so there. So not with not with this intention. I would say it doesn’t like that so I would say we’ll study. It doesn’t matter. Meaning whether the things happened by accident or they happened with intention. Doesn’t matter. Just tell me, what were those that they were in place? No, no, I understand that. Yeah, I agree. Yes. So they’re making it clear that they didn’t set him up with the intention of exactly Because that’s country what you’re talking about. Yeah. So? So what we’ve done is what was already so number one, Let’s go through a mountain labbate. Okay, Number one is the power of the few. Okay, so we know about you know, the power few 80 20 rule When it comes to fund-raising grayce absentee money is coming from 20% to you people. 20% of ah, you know, 20% of your people should be giving 80% your money, right? And we use this says as a methodology for fund-raising. Rarely do we use it as a methodology for involuntary engagement and for soliciting people to become ambassadors and influencers for your organization. Where we say Okay, well, if we’re trying to get to the message, we should just engage with the mass masses. But the reality is is that it works the same way with volunteer engagement. Getting people to advocate for organization is first, find the power of the few. Find the power of those. The column, the the influencers, your power. Your have power on social media. Exactly. So so glad. Will breaks it down into into into three different types of people. Connectors, mavens and sales people. Right. So today we call them influencers, right? And they but influencers have varying degrees of these attributes, you know? So Ah, connectors like you going to a party. And you’re like, you know, how’d you get here, Laura? You know, she, uh, Lauren bradunas. She invited me to You walked through the room. Heroes at Laura basically was, like, had something to do with everyone invited to the party. Right. You’re going to a conference in Portland, you know? Oh, you have to meet Laura. She’s gonna be there. You gotta meet Tony. You gotta get on the show. You know, everyone’s on his show like these air connectors. That’s not a hypothetical. No, no, that’s that’s really you’re connected. And you’re also maybe even be a maven. Maybe even a sale of herself. Disgusting. You’re made in first. Everything I don’t want to say I’m a whore. Everything. Oh, my God. There’s a lot of Yeah, So there’s a lot of obviously that there’s crossover at some people. Could be like a professional something, And they’re also a bit of a connector. But essentially, it’s influencers. Right? But influencers, you know, today we know the Miss Influences, and they’re like, OK, instagram influencers, they sort of They become formalized and formulated into an actual career. Right? But it’s not just the professional way. Gotta move this long. You have a lot of tips were only on the 1st 1 so number. So you know what? No, I do wanna go deeper on this before before we leave it, but I’m directing you that we got, uh I wanted to get specific. What do you do with these influences first? First you gotta identify them. There are companies that I can help you sort through your all your social contact if you give them your email. Maybe charity does that. I don’t know, but you get enough of a free promotion. I’m not gonna let you say whether you do it or not. Maybe you do maybe you don’t go to charity dot com. She could find out beyond that. So you’ve identified your influencers? What do you do it before your campaign? You You Well, you empower them to be a springboard and a messaging board for your organization. So say you’re a school, okay? And you identify, um, an educator in the community, right? That who’s a maven in the community, which happens to be a parent, right? And you, you you engage with that person and say, Listen, we’re doing the campaign, and we’re raising money for this in this new program. And you happen to be a professional in this program and love for you to get onto a video and talk about like, Yes, this program really deserves the funding that is being asked for. And among all the noise that’s happening through all the solicitations and asking this is going to rise to the tide because you’re getting that trust and that gravitas from this professional who’s going to bring your message to the forefront. So you want to identify them? You want to empower them, engage with them and ask them to become advocates for your campaign. Now, if and their first. So they’re really carrying the message forward, right? The connectors are like just by just by posting it on Twitter today or posting on instagram or putting it on a whatsapp group, they’re naturally connecting or they’re going to an event, right? The mavens air giving you no weights and trust to the conversation. Salespeople are creating persuasive reasons why you should give and should give Maura and give even more. You line these people of strategically, you could have a much greater chance of success. All right, How much? How far in advance? Great question. So it happens in in-kind. Took 14 minutes for questions. Wait. Another 10 maybe 12 5 Feel generous it How far? So we do it, so we do it in stages. So what’s really important with crowdster radcampaign is keeping the momentum going. So you don’t want to, you know, start preparing a campaign several months before, and then you lose interest in you lose momentum, right? Because you want to complain. It’s like a plane taking off, right? So they’re usually the first people that you would reach out to you before you go public before you go public, right? so you’d reach out to a couple weeks before a couple of weeks before you know if I’m dealing with a squid newsome with university. So it would be like, let’s say, two months before the campaign and you want to. You want to give them preparation? Won’t have them prepare their message. You want to have them, you know they’re gonna go out and they’re going to speak on behalf of the school. They have questions. They’re gonna I want to, you know, you know, curate and really define their message. Probably university. That’s a bigger bureaucracy to so some of their messaging may have to be approved, but sizes smaller midsize shop. Well, College University could be a mid size small shop. You don’t need to be two months out in advance. We’ll give you an example. Influencer. Yeah, so I’ll give you an example. We did a campaign we ran a campaign for Why you in New York University and this was three years ago. We’ve done one recently also, but the 1st 1 that we did of slogan was I m y you and Lin Manuel Miranda was actually a honorary graduate of Achieve University. So We engaged with him for a video several weeks before, But then the video only launched the day before. So it’s about lining up that strategy. Decided that would be a nice shot. Exactly. I shot started every every campaign’s not gonna have a Lin Manuel Miranda. But that’s, you know, kind of an example of someone finding people who have that broad appeal and that broad network to be able to, you know, take your message further. All right. Um, what else do we have to have in place? Yeah, in advance. So them the were only on the in advanced stage. We’re not even into the way. Have 10 minutes left. So the second thing is really, really second thing is really taking messaging. Very serious. So we’re still in the preparation we’re so ever. So I’ll tell you, Tony. Oh, everything. Everything happens in preparation. Okay. If you know what I always say that once your campaign starts, it’s already over. There’s nothing you can do about it once it starts. You know, once it starts, you just if you’re waiting to it for to start for to be successful, you’re gonna lose all your friends. Okay? Yeah, because you’re just gonna be harassing people, like throughout that radcampaign beating down the door for wait. We don’t want that. That’s not that’s not the outcome that we’re trying t. Okay, It all happens before I really wanted thio off. Okay? Yeah. So the second thing is just taking your messaging very seriously. Um, and Gladwell talks about it compares it to, like, you know, the stickiness factor. You can have good messaging. Are you gonna have missing that actually sticks, right. So taking, going to the depth of your cause and your appeal and really defining the truth in the essence of what you’re trying to say. But then churning that into a bite size, you know, congest oppcoll message that has that has legs, okay. And a message that is going to be memorable easily. Big headlines will be able to, you know, the think different, open happiness. You know, those type of messaging, it works wonders in crowdfunding. And it’s so important because you know, the distance between your message and your conversion is actually really, really close. You know, you’re going on on social media and you’re saying, you know, getting to the core of an organization, Really? So getting to the heart of organization and making a real beautiful, you know? Well, well, well positioned. Ask right. You can see it conversion instantly. Be just moments instantly. And that’s what’s important, right? So 20 years ago, when you had a great man, you’re doing a billboard. You couldn’t really measure the results in the conversion of the building. Well X amount of eyes walking down next month. Today, messaging is so much more critical. You can’t mess with that because it’s like there’s so much you can gain with a better message. People are going to see some that’s really gonna be compelling. They’re gonna take action. You’re gonna have feedback immediately, instantly. And that’s also good with testing. So you can text messages. You contest the messages, you can tweak messages. Okay. Messaging? Yes. 30. Glad we’ll talk about the power of context. Okay, so context is that the timing is the right environment. The right moves, you know, it’s social. Are people prepared for it? Right. So on a practical level, you know, the do’s and don’ts of timing. And so you know, you know, for for ce que no for typical organization you want to think about. Okay? December’s a great month. You know, you’re on fund-raising. I want time up and lead my fund-raising My my crowd from the campaign to happen You’re in Line it up with your and fundez latto content. It should be leveraged year and fund-raising thing. Right? Um, if you are a religious organization, it should be before the holidays tied into tight to the holidays where people are in the mood of e-giving worth tied around Christmas for people in the, you know, in the in the giving season. So timing is really, really important. And then in the don’ts, you know, timing around Passover? Exactly. Yes. The Passover is coming up soon. It’s a great time. We have a lot of campaigns happening. Be Christmas. Just a Catholic name. Yeah, I was trying pandering. You’re pandering. Necessary called you out here. Listen. Martignetti sounds Catholic. Culwell call at Christmas. Go ahead from New York, Jewish or Christian? Celebrated Christmas. You know, it’s everywhere. You can’t get away from it. You know, I heard that, um my kids are still wondering why they don’t have a Christmas tree. That they’re not getting it um, it’s just everywhere, you know. Um, you know, it’s interesting on it. Before this company I work for my brother started a virtual currency company. This was 2012 Virtual what? Virtual currency. Currency 1012. No. One way ahead, Right. Guys got back. It was where he was just too much of a vision or way ahead. Right? So you’re talking about and there’s actually I’ve been in the last six months I’ve actually seen already three businesses that have almost the exact identical business model. Tow what we what he what he created and what we were trying to create that genius. Brilliant. Nothing bad timing right through these other three of taking off other’s movements. There’s a whole ecosystem today. Virtual currencies go today, so timing is really, really important, you know? Are you coming out with your message? Where than even the environment is ready for it? Look at that. Remember the immigration campaign that you don’t let your brother listen to this? Yeah, sure. Does he know I really wrote that rodeo? How I wrote about this kind of threw him under a bus. You know, zoho thing for him, you know, it’s it’s, it’s he’s a genius, you know? He’s, you know, he’s too smart. It’s got no time, no time, no good. You can’t invent the car now. Exactly. You remember the image of the campaign that Facebook krauz from campaign that raised like $35,000,000 for, you know, for for the immigration organization in D. C. Was a 35,000,000 crowdster. It was a $35,000,000 crowdster. That organization, before that campaign struggled to reach $1,000,000 a year fund-raising. They didn’t even have a budget of more of $1,000,000. Here they are, the timing with the entire immigration fiasco that’s that’s going on. Someone launches a campaign on their behalf, or they launch shevawn exactly sure who launched it within weeks. $35,000,000 from tens of townspeople. And and you should. You know it’s not about being an ambulance chaser. You don’t want to take advantage of situations but should be looking out for you. That’s that’s grabbing a hook Exactly. If there’s immigration news and you’re in the immigration space, I think if you don’t grab a hook, your risk being irrelevant, and I’ve had guests who have said that, and I believe it myself. I just I just repeat everything. Guess yeah. Bring smart. Don’t have any knowledge of your own. I have a good memory. All right, let’s move on. Really? Have a couple minutes left, like three or four. So more things. More things. Preparation. Mushy, please. So I’ll tell you. Great. So So you have your So let’s say you lined up all these ingredients, right? And you you line up your power of the few. You get your influences lined up to really help you can. You got amazing messaging, right? And then you have the timing’s perfect. You get even a little setup, right? Roger. And for what you’re missing right now is it’s not enough. No, no, not sufficiently. You’re missing. You’re missing. What you’re missing here is velocity. Okay, so think take up. Sorry about that. Take a plane. Take off. Right, Guys, watch one off. Yeah, take a plane. That’s mine. I put mine on airport road airplane mode for you. Uh, if I could get the same courtesy put in his pocket, but he still didn’t put it. Still did not know. You only gave me 30 minutes and going in airplane mode, yet just took in his pockets. It’s still gonna vibrate. All right, So take a plane, right? It has to reach a certain speed within a certain amount of space. Was a certain amount of time actually living velocity velocity on and lift and lift in the upper wings and believe that teacher above pressure below. So all that scientific stuff, But the point is that you need thes things to happen within within a specific amount of time for us to be able to create that combustion for it actually take off right field to hit the tipping point. Yeah. Okay, So, um, I’ll give an example of what things? People we see that people are usually doing wrong they can improve on. Is that, you know, yesterday had to come from at my talk. I asked someone like you who’s been involved in a crowd from the campaign dahna peer-to-peer of campaign, for example. And one person Me. Okay. And I said, Well, tell me how it went in these and she said, Well, they called me out, they sent me an email and then there was an event, anything, and they said you know, would you take on a campaign a page to raise $3600 for the organization. Right? And she said yes. Okay. And then when was the end? When was the organ it? When was the campaign culminating? Four months. So is the worst words four months of her life. Okay, so you need a much less time than you think you do, right? You think more time equals more money? No, no, no, it doesn’t. Less time equals more money because, you know, people are just inundated with so much information. And if you if you have the right ingredients to motivate the person to say yes, I’ll give right with by telling them, you know, whether you let’s say you put a matching component on the campaign right where you said in this and limited amount of time, your money will be matched, right? Right. Or you put it. You have a certain goal that you have to reach within a certain amount of time, that urgency, their impact recognition with everybody’s gonna be recognized. The campaign. You have all those ingredients and you have the right man. You have the right people pushing it and the context is right. You need very, very little time to actually take off. The majority of our campaigns happen in 24 36 hours. Millions are being raised in 24 3rd toe with weeks of preparation. So if you want to hit a tipping point, you can’t have, you know, miles of runway. You’ll never take off. You just drive right off the runway, and that’s it. So shorten the runway and and and prepare the ingredients that you need, as we just mentioned. But that should be all be done in the maintenance hangar. Exactly playing now, in case that wasn’t obvious. Yeah, you’re feeding off, Tony. We feel about each other is done in manufacturing. I mean, you go way back, but it’s done in maintenance, maintenance and cleaning. Yes. Okay. All right. All right. Uh, give me another minute. You got, uh, Can I? Yeah. You got one more thing. I want to wrap it up. Dahna without mentioning charity dot com. Can you Can you summarize or you want to give another tip? You know, listen, I’m here today, and I don’t do a lot of the conferences, but it’s it’s It’s fantastic to be to be here. I think the Auntie unconference is really nice, you know, some of their like way big. And there’s not a lot of you know, too big to have conversations and too small. I think this is a really, really nice sized dent. Unconference. I’ve met a lot of wonderful people here, a lot of people doing a lot of innovative stuff in this space. It’s it’s encouraging to be here to see a lot of people, you know, working towards the same goal. Yeah, all right, we’ll leave it there. Thank you for having actually. Don’t don’t walk away yet. Your your phone is Your watch is buzzing. He’s monisha Hecht. He’s the chief innovation officer at charity. C H a R D y. That’s enough shout outs for that, and you’re with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 ntcdinosaur 2019 non-profit Technology Conference, Portland, Oregon All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our Partners Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software maintaining separate accounts for each fund-raising daily expenses and reporting to the board are all challenging. That’s why Cougar Mountain created Denali fund-raising osili Fund, a complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profits. You know, like the Park Denali. They have a free 60 day trial at tony dot m. A slash Cougar Mountain Denali, of course, is also a mountain, but it’s Ah park in a mountain Denali fund that m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now, time for Tony’s take to the 450th non-profit radio is July 26th. Yes, we’ve been at this nine years times 50 shows. There you go. Who’s gonna be with us? Scott Stein, of course. Live music. You gotta have Scott and his 88 singing. Ah, our theme song. Cheap red wine Live in the studio. Um, of course, our creative producer, Claire Meyerhoff, live in the studio. Call ins from all our contributors. Giveaways? Yes, giveaways. I’m sure we’ll have cure a coffee. The coffee owned by the dentist that provides dental care for coffee growers and coffee workers. As you buy their bags of coffee, they’ll be there. A sponsor of the 450th will be giving away some bags of cure coffee. Always great fun. Um, we’ll have some some comedic thing. It’s too early to tell you. Don’t You don’t need to know at this point if I told you you’d forget anyway, So just be tuned in for the 4/50 and you’ll see what we’re doing. We’re giving away and, uh, what we put together. All right, that’s it. That’s Tony’s. Take two Now here is C. R M plus email plus website. Tough. Welcome to Tony Martin. Non-profit radio coverage of 1990. See, that’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me now is Isaac Shalev. He is president at Sage 70 and his topic is solving the C r M plus email plus website equation. Isaac. Welcome. Thanks very much for having me, Tony. A real pleasure. You have a real radio voice. Good podcast voice. I should start one you have right now. You have one already, right? I’m cheating. I do. I’ve been podcasting for a few years on a totally different top shot out your podcast. What is it? My podcast is called on board games, and it’s about board games. Eso head overto on board games dot net to check it out. Okay, Wonderful. That that’s obviously a part time passion of yours again. Yeah, I I design board games on the side. You designed them. I was gonna ask you, Do you talk more about classic or contemporary games? We mostly talk about contemporary games. We talk about the games industry, which is exploding these days, and we feature interviews with industry guests and talk about what’s happening at conventions and things like that. That’s what’s fabulous about podcasting. The niche niche, a board games podcast. Yeah, you could go all the way down the rabbit hole in a podcast. And there’s somebody down there listening, doing it. Yes, whatever it is. Yeah, all right, Uh, let’s do our equation. So what? What’s the problem here? Well, I think it’s an opportunity, really. More than a problem of the opportunity is to be able to know more about the people who are engaged in your mission. Whether that’s donors who are coming to your website to learn more about you or who are reading your emails because they want to know more about the work that you’re doing, um, or whether it’s program participants who you want to track as they go through your programs. You want to be able to wherever somebody touches you, no and track and engaged, which means you need a database that can store all that engagement information. But you also need connections between where the engagement happens. Right when you send an email, you need to know who opened the email in order to track that they opened it and cared about it. Same thing with the Web. When somebody visits your website, you want to know that they came and what they clicked on that’s gonna help you communicate with them about the parts of your work that they care most about. So that’s the promise of C. R M. When it’s integrated with email and with the website. The technical challenges enormous, though, because these are different systems by different vendors and different underlying technology, and making them connect is not trivial. So we’ve spent the last 15 years working on this and we’re getting there. We’re getting closer and closer each year. Are the vendors cooperating with each other? I think that over time we’ve seen a few cycles of how this kind of works. So initially we had a lot of unbundled services. You had your website on your website was I mean, even think about the pre WordPress days, right? When when people were spinning up websites on bear code. Um, and you had databases that didn’t even talk to the Web. I mean, if you were working with earlier versions of razors at your donor perfect, they didn’t have any connection to the Web. But all that’s changed a lot. Now they’re all in one systems. You know, Neon is a vendor that’s pretty popular in that space that provide content management systems as well as email marketing platforms as part of the core CR M database offering. But you can still do it. Lots of other ways and enterprise solutions are often more of a Let me pick of the best in breed for each service I want and then integrate through AP eyes, Um, and that can be very powerful, but it’s challenging, not on just the technical level, but on the training you need to train staff to be able to use multiple different systems. And you need governance. You need somebody to oversee how different systems connect and make sure that the right pieces of data move to the right place is a lot to this. All right, well, that’s what we called it. An equation, you know, were straightforward. There’s some math ap eyes. Let’s just make make that clear. We have jargon jail on non-profit radio. You’ve trapped me in. So I didn’t drop you. I was your for your You’re free falling every rolling. I walked right in and slammed the door. Okay, I know that in a p I was like, It’s a call from one to another, but you you don’t know what it stands for. You can define it better than I can. So, uh, a p I is a way in which one system defines how it wants to be spoken to buy another system. So when you use an A p I, what you’re doing is you’re sort of saying I want to move information like your name and your email address from my website, where I captured it in a form to my C R m so that I can see if maybe you’ve been a donor and I can add engagement record, I can add a touchpoint to your record. So my cr m will say, Oh, that’s great. If you want to pass me information, send it to me in a file that looks like this, right? So send it to me within column one Put the name in column to put the email and package that into a you know, an extra accept ostomel far, whatever it is. And send that to me. That’s basically what an A p I is. It’s how to structure data so that you can move from one system to another stand for something. Yeah, it stands for automatic program interface. I believe I’m not sure about the A Okay. Program interface makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Um, is there an advantage? Thio open source versus proprietary in terms of the three working together. If if you’re all open source, are you more likely to have compatibility? Oh, um or not. I don’t think that, uh, you necessarily will have more compatibility. What’s true is that open source products worm or committed to an open standard s o. They were more committed to offering AP eyes that allows data to move in and out of systems. And there were a lot of and there remained a lot of vendors who don’t yet have fully open AP eyes. In some cases, like blackbaud has been spending quite a bit of time developing their sky a p I that promises to allow open access. But the reality is that if you’re sitting in Razor’s Edge seven, it’s hard to move data in and out because there aren’t really open AP eyes. So yes, if you were in an open source system, you probably had access to open a P eyes on at least one side of things. I think generally that modular architecture, that idea that the product that I’m building should allow data to move in and out has become more broadly embraced no matter what, and open source products have faded, I think, in their relevance to the non-profit space over the last few years, So C v. C R M is no longer ah leading C R M product in the market without sails. For Salesforce’s open source business sales forces of proprietary proprietary yes, sales force is owned by the Sales Force company. I know, and I heard somebody say that it was open. Source. Sales Force has open AP eyes So let’s let’s define the difference here. Open source means that the coda that the product was written in is available to anyone like Firefox. Right? Mozilla makes Firefox. Mozilla’s an open source, right? So you can take that code. You can do whatever you want to it. You don’t have to pay anyone for it on. That’s what open source means. Sales force, on the other hand, has open ap eyes. Which means how could that I could? No. Course not. You have to report sales for separation. Yeah, All right, So So, yes, but you do want to look for that, but you do want a little lackluster. Sorry, I’m the only one. It’s Tony martignetti now, probably. Unfortunately, not somebody else’s not greater. You’re stuck here. Okay, so, yes, maybe was open a p I Maybe that’s what I misunderstood. Well, the trick is also that you have to be really concerned about the word ap I because there are, um a lot of folks out there saying we have a p eyes and they’re not wrong. They do have a P eyes, but they may not be opening all of the different tables in the database to you. So you may wanna track information in your c r M that you can’t pull from another system. Because, for example, um, you might have an email system where you can pull whether a person opened a specific email on whether they clicked on a specific email. But maybe you can’t pull which email they unsubscribes from. That’s just not an available thing to pull from there a p I So you’ve got some functionality. But when you made the decision oh, they have an A p I. Let’s use them. You might not have been aware of the limitations. S o a. P. I doesn’t mean all the data can move easily, and you really need to explore and make sure by examining the AP I documentation to dive down. Yeah, to know that it’s going to share with you the with your other system, the information that you’re expecting to carry over, right? I mean, you can imagine a donor system saying they have open ap eyes. So you could pull everybody’s name and email address, but not how much they donated. That’s not super helpful, But you could still describe it as an open A P. I Okay. Okay, good. Thank you. Straighten me out, Trainable. Stick with me. But I’m training. Um uh, learning about. See, the databases of records, FBI’s integration methods, Um, a plan for getting these technologies to talk to one another. So we have. Have you done your session yet? I’ll be doing my session tomorrow. Okay. But it’s a repeat. I did it last year. You did? No, I didn’t capture you last year. No. No. Yeah, yeah. I was doing a session at the time that you offered to me. Okay. You really gotta schedule. Maybe I invited you and you turned me down. That’s possible, too. Way invite. More than we can refill. It’s possible. It’s possible. I’m glad to be here this year. Yeah, I’m glad you are to thank you for coming this year. Well, I’ve been listening for a long time, so I think I’m excited. Thio have a chance to be on the other end of the mike. Thank you. Glad. Um, Okay. So Well, what only one with just a little bit about the fact that you’re you’re you’ve been listening for so long and gratified to be a gift. A guest. What? Well, I was I was gonna suggest that we talk a little bit about how, um today the need for integration is even greater because our stakeholders expect us to know everything right. When you come to an organization, you expect them to know whether you’ve been to an event or whether you were engaged in a particular cause. There’s just no separation from from the perspective of the donor of, ah, stakeholder between the different departments within an organization, you know, you call it, and a lot of that expectation is driven by what we are experiencing e commerce for sure. Very smart companies like Zappos, Amazon on and maybe even buy some smart charities that have raised the bar. So now we’re expecting I mean, why don’t you have the same? You have access to the same technology they do if you’re willing to invest in it. So the bar is hyre, you know, step up your game absolutely and fairly right in that we came preaching the importance of working with each individual and segmenting our communication so that everyone feels a personal connection. And if you’re gonna talk that game when the donor calls, you better know who they are. And that means that you need someone at that phone in front of a terminal where they can type in a name and see the full view of what this person has done with your organization. So the stakes are rising in terms of being able to do this and the means by which we do it keep multiplying, right. We have Maur and more channels. So it used to be that we were just doing direct mountain. We did email. Then we did text to give. And now we have ah peer-to-peer platforms. We have so many more ways in which we’re engaging. And usually it’s another vendor. It’s another system. It’s another database through which we add this functionality and a couple of years go by and some CR M pulls that functionality in and you get increased functionality within your core system. How are we gonna make this happen though you have? You obviously have to have expertise to do this. Thio, have these cross platform communications. So 11 tip, one big tip. Here’s if you listen to nothing else in this interview. I want everyone to walk away with this one big idea. Have a network map. A network map is a map that shows all the different systems that you have and arrows pointing to which system pushes data into which place. And this doesn’t sound that complicated. And the reality is, it’s not hard to do. You list all your systems and then you draw your arrows. And when you’re drawing your arrows, just indicate whether it’s an automatic move of data or whether it’s manual. Are you downloading the spreadsheet and uploading it to a new system? That’s manual. Is there an A P I. Is there an integration that does it without you having to do anything automatic? Just make that map, and now you have an opportunity, right, because now you can see where your manual processes. Maybe there’s something you can do about that where your automated ones and also you know, you you don’t want to trip over yourself. You can create loops right where one system updates the next one, the next one and the next one, and then they circle back and making a map avoids that trouble. So that’s the first step in thinking through a problem like this is make the map and figure out what’s in the middle. What’s your database of record? Where you gonna collect all that data? And if you don’t have one, that’s your first mission. Oh, if there’s nothing at your core if you don’t have a database of record, if you don’t have the place where you keep all the data, you really don’t have a way to centralize time for our last break. Turn to communications. Full service Strategic communications and PR for non-profits Turn to helps you tell compelling stories. Advocate for your cause and make a difference through media relations, content, marketing, communications and branding strategy. They’re at turn hyphen to dot CEO not dot com that CEO now here’s back to, but loads more time. Of course, for CR M plus email plus website, there’s there’s some new methods for dealing with kind of cross platform stuff. You’ve got all these tools and you’re trying Thio to be able to see he threw it through and across all of them, so you may have heard folks talking about data, warehousing, data, warehousing is it? Sounds kind of, I don’t know, futuristic in some ways, but futuristic in the most boring way, right? We don’t get flying cars. We got data warehouses, but a data warehouse is basically pouring every other database that you have into one big database. But you don’t have that database do anything, right? So in other words, just doesn’t delivery males. It doesn’t do any transaction. You can query from it right on. And so then you can query across all your different systems. And so you say, Find me the person who received these three e mails who donated at least $100 over the last year. And who cares about owls and they live in New Jersey. Perfect. Right. And I can, even though that data lives in multiple data. Very right. But if you can make that query right, then you can send that email that says who gives a hoot. And that person in New Jersey is gonna open that email right now. You’ve sold me on the value of a data warehouse. How do you create such a thing? Well, data warehouses are created mostly with open source tools. Actually s o. A lot of times you take a my sequel database and you use a P I’s to pull in data from all your different systems. Sometimes you have to download stuff and upload stuff. There’s data extraction transformation and loading process is E. T ells that go along with that? But the key is that you need and I say key because it really is about what’s called a primary key in a database. Every line every row in that database is represented by a unique identify. Something has to be unique, right? And the trouble is that everything that has the nation’s my information systems degree from Carnegie Mellon it’s paying off. Also antiquated. But you know, as antiquated as it is, that was true in 8429 week. Identify where each row right and when there is such a unique identifier than you can really make the magic happen. The trouble is, when you push three different databases into one, each database had its own unique identifier. So you Tony martignetti are 1 28 in this database and your 3 96 in that database in your 4 25 donordigital base. I’m in the employee database, right. So we need to create 1/4 unique identify in the warehouse that identifies you across those three systems. So there’s some work to do. And that’s why we recommend that non-profits do work with experts around this because data warehousing can be complex to get off the ground. But it has incredible returns in terms of transparency, invisibility of your most valuable data across multiple systems. So this means that you don’t have to take everyone’s favorite system away from them or the system that you just spent a whole bunch of money implementing. You don’t have to get rid of it because it doesn’t integrate with that system. You can keep everyone working with the tools they love while still creating transparent information and reporting for decision makers. OK, I’m gonna guess that sage 70 will, uh, will help you with this. So what’s age 70 will do is help you assess your digital infrastructure. What are all the tools that you’re using? Are they well integrated? Do you have the right staff and skills to leverage them? A lot of times you know, the trouble that you have is not your tool doesn’t work. The trouble that you have is that strategy. You’re not sure what you’re trying to achieve or how to measure it, or it’s that skills. You know what you’re trying to achieve. You just don’t have the people who can do it or they’re structured poorly. You’ve got them scattered across different departments and they’re not effective and you need to centralize them, whatever it might be, The tool itself is usually relatively far down the list, and that’s because we’re in 2019 and we’re lucky. A lot of the tools have gotten a lot better. There’s been a lot of feature convergence, so any tulani CR m you pick is gonna have a lot of the same features. And it’s less about nailing the tool and much more about understanding what you wanted to achieve, making sure your staffed for it, making sure that the data is traveling through each system the right way. So that’s what saved 70 helps with when you actually want to build the thing. They’re specialists to build that thing. This folks here, um, right here it ntcdinosaur recommend everyone talked to a fracture is a great partner in this O Matic. If you’re on razor’s edge is another great partner for this s o there folks out there who specialize in setting up your data warehouse. And it’s a process I really, really recommend that you get expertise for Ah, but ah, start with strategy, though. Figure out what’s trying to do. Right? Right. What? Why? Yeah. What’s our goal? Yeah, what’s our purpose? And which information do we need to raise the visibility of? Because one of those, one of the worst things that you can do is build a warehouse that lets you see everything and then try and look at everything. No. You gotta look at the five things that matter most. What else you gonna talk about tomorrow? Well, I think we’re gonna talk on the agenda. Well, we’re gonna talk a little bit about the, uh the different ways that vendors offer this kind of integration. So there are all in one vendors that offer you a lot of different tools under one roof. And that’s great because it’s easy to train staff in that you see familiar screens over and over again. The data on the back end is integrated, so they’re really effective. However you trade Cem flexibility, you may prefer a different email tool, but the vendor doesn’t have that. They haven’t all in one, so you have to stick with them. You might go with, you know, totally the opposite. On end of the spectrum, you might go with a platform, whether that sales force or dynamics where you ca NBA build whatever you want on this kind of core foundation, and that gives you tremendous flexibility, you can build whatever you want. It also gives you a lot of costs and challenges your skills because you can build anything if you have the money for it in the know how. Um, should you build anything that’s usually ended? Question. And there’s the maintenance of the of the custom. Build right, and you have to budget not just for the maintenance, but here’s the real l tricky one. When you build a custom system, nobody can train you in it, but you, so you have to now build a training capacity to continue supporting your system. This isn’t you know. I’ll say this over and over again. We spend too much time thinking about what it’s gonna cost us to buy our tech tools to build our tech tools to maintain our tech tools. We should be spending twice that much time thinking about how to acquire the right staff, howto retain them and how to train them to use our tools. That’s the hard part. I mean, so many people non-profits have tremendous passion and tremendous skillsets, but not often great technical skillsets. That’s part of what a successful non-profit needs to learn how to do is in bed strong skillsets in technology in their staff and be willing to invest. You have to be invested in it either either through staff or or outside help, right? I mean, you know the old joke, right? What happens if I You spend all my money training my staff and then they leave? Well, what happens if you don’t spend the money training your staff and they stay? I haven’t heard that joke. I don’t know that one. I haven’t heard that. All right, E. I wish we had a laugh track. Have an awful on trains. I’m not sure it would have been too loud. You have a good, hearty laugh yourself. That’s all right. Um, okay. We still have another couple minutes together. Uh, what else are you gonna? I don’t know. You know, based on your session description, I feel like we’ve covered everything, but we can’t have covered it all because we haven’t spent 75 minutes together. Well, we certainly haven’t. I think that, uh, one of the tricks that you have to really, uh, ask yourself is Do I pursue a C r M driven strategy? And this is something that I want every small non-profit listening to think hard about because, you know, I sat with the client ones and they were talking about how they wanted to put everything in a c r M. And what should we do? And I asked, How many donors do you have that you communicate with? And they said 500. And I said, That’s a wonderful number. You don’t need to C R M. You need a telephone. 500 donors call two a day, right? There’s your not at a point where you need the scale. And therefore you shouldn’t hamper yourself with the You know what a system is gonna tie you to, uh, there’s another small non-profit Smallish. I mean, talk about 30 employees. So not tiny. Um, but, uh, 30 employees couple $1,000,000 in revenue And they you’re using sales force, which is, by the way, fair, very challenging for small organizations to use effectively. But they had really the cleanest salesforce implementation I’ve ever seen. Data was hygienic. It was kept well, they had a sale sports admin on staff. They had another part time sales force person who really did a great job of pushing all of their donordigital and all of their program stuff into sales force. They were running every program out of sales force. And I kind of wanted to actually have a panel tomorrow about managing your managing using a c R M. To manage program. Yeah, yeah, it’s It’s certainly part of the promise of sales forces you can cross from donor to constituent tow program participants, and they made it work. However, however, there there’s a but there’s a big but lurking at the end of this one, which is that even though they were doing such a great job of that whenever they wanted to spin up a new program and they’re young enough that they’re still spinning up new programs and thinking of new ways to solve their problems. Whenever they wanted to spend up a new program, they got stuck. They got stuck in a six month sales force development cycle. We have a new program. How are we gonna administer it through sales force? We need to create new forms we need to create new business logic. We need to test it right. We need to go through the process of implementing this program into sales force. That’s really slow. You can’t sew a small organization. One of its advantages is agility and flexibility. When you take on a bigger than your class system, you may sacrifice some of that agility. Eso, you know, in our advice to them, was not to get rid of Salesforce, right? Our advice to them was, and this is crazy. But our advice to them was spend the first year of every programme in Excel and I know right, I’m a tech consultant telling you Excel is good for things, but iterated rapidly be able to be flexible. Don’t tie your data into hard relationships. Admittedly, you lose some of the benefits of structure data. It’s true. But what you gain is the ability to figure out how it’s gonna work for real. And once you figure that out, once you have some process maturity, right and you figured out what the right way to do it is, then go to Salesforce, right? Then put it into your sales force. So that’s something that I really want folks thinking about lean startup principle. That’s right. Start, start lean. You’ll learn your pivot if you need to. And then when you’ve got something that’s a year old and and proven mean, the program may not even take off right. You could spend more time in sales force development than the life of the program. Conceivably right. So when you’ve got something that you know you’re gonna stick with and you know what data capture, um, then spend your time and money on your sales force. Implementation? Yeah. Don’t overbuild your infrastructure. I mean, it’s the same idea is certainly out of the outside. It’s that same idea that you know, uh, if you’re gonna build a public space and you want to know where to put the walkways, what do you do? You wait. You wait and see where the path. Yes, yes. So it’s the same ideas and favorite. Figure out where you’re going to get a lot of bang from your infrastructure investment. Where is it going to really pay off for you on? And it’s a little bit, I think, counter to how we sometimes think about this, where it’s become so de facto that Oh, you’re gonna need to C R M and you need to see our strategy. It’s not clear to me that you need to C. R M strategy. It’s clear to me that if you want to keep track of your most important stakeholders, you’re gonna need a method for doing so. And if you have enough of them, a C R M is probably the method. Okay, okay. Give us a wrap up than solving the C r M plus email plus website equation. Well, the first thing I should say is, don’t forget, carry the one is there. Is there a solution to this equation? Yeah, I think there is a solution to the equation on, and it starts with understanding what your goals are. If you really do communicate to people. If you’re an advocacy, Oregon. You really do a ton of e mailing in a ton of segmentation. A ton of personalization, then? Yeah, you need your C r m and your email and your website to talk to one another and just not. Not just that. You need your social integrated and you need your pita pema integrated and you need your text messaging. So, yeah, that’s your core business is communicating effective segmented messaging in order to inspire actions. So it makes sense that you use that infrastructure. But that’s not gonna be the case for every non-profit. So understand. Visualize what advantage, what benefit you want out of this, and that’ll help shape your investment. What you want into this? That’s one. The second thing is, you solve this problem with the right people more than you solve it with the right tools. Invest in the right people. Whether that’s advice from consultants or whether that staff and their expertise and skills, that’s where you’re going to get the biggest force multiplier the right people. All right, Isaac shall live. He is president at Sage 70 helped us solve the C R M plus email plus website equation. I thank you very much. Thanks, Isaac. Thank you, Tony. Great to be here. Pleasure. Thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 and T. C. All of our interviews at 19 ntcdinosaur brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much Being with us next week, it’s the week before the 450th show. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. C p A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers weather cps dot com But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution specifically for non-profits 20 dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, full service, strategic communications and PR. Turn hyphen to dot C o ah creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Leibowitz is the line producer producer. The show’s show schnoll Media is buy shoes in Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be Greek. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Beyond potential. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 6, 2016: Emotional Intelligence & Peer-to-Peer Tips

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Monisha Kapila: Emotional Intelligence

Monisha Kapila is founder & CEO of ProInspire. She shares why EI is important and underrated. What steps you can take to become more aware of yourself and others, and how awareness will lead you to better working relationships.



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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, meg hoffman in boston, massachusetts she’s at non-profit underscore meg and she tweeted getting ready for the week ahead, listening to tony martignetti on my way to work hashtag in the zone hashtag non-profit hash tag listen, learn do hashtag non-profit excellence meg hashtag thank you for taking hashtag non-profit radio with you. Meg huffman hashtag congratulations on being our listener of the week thanks so much for loving non-profit radio oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown in tow hashimoto’s thyroid itis if you thought i was immune to the idea that you missed today’s show emotional intelligence monisha capella is founder and ceo of proinspire she shares why i is important and underrated what steps you can take to become more aware of yourself and others and how that awareness will lead you to better working relationships and peer-to-peer tips. Mike weapon is chief product strategist for crowdster he’s got lots of ideas to raise more money in your next crowdfunded campaign on tony’s take two you gotta answer planned e-giving questions we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, also by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay for mobile donations. Crowdster dot com i’m very pleased to welcome monisha ca piela she is founder and ceo of proinspire helping individuals and organizations achieve their potential for social impact, she’s worked with the likes of care and the clinton foundation. In january. She was one of the chronicle of philanthropy is forty under forty she’s at monisha ca piela that’s, k p i l a and proinspire is at proinspire dot or ge and at proinspire monisha ca piela welcome to non-profit radio. Thanks, tony it’s a pleasure to have you tell us about proinspire what ura non-profit yourself. What do you what you doing there? Yes. Prospers and non-profit. We’re focused on developing leaders at all levels for the nonprofit sector and we run a number of programs to help non-profits and foundations develop people through recruiting, training, coaching and professional development. And one of those programs is the is managing for success. Yes, managing for success is one. Of our flagship programs, we started it in twenty thirteen. It really came from some things that we had seen around the lack of support for managers in the nonprofit sector there’s a lot of training in leadership development for people on the stage, but there’s a big gap of people are rising in their careers, and we heard from a number of e d s that they felt like this was an area where they wanted to support their rising leaders, but they didn’t have the capacity to do it. So we worked any casey foundation to create a program that focus on the key competencies. Managers need to be successful at managing people on project and built this program around that yeah, you have ah very interesting survey of non-profit managers that says fifty percent feel they lack the skills that they need to be effective. Yes, when we were designing the program, we survey people who had management responsibility in the sector and were really surprised to see how many felt like they weren’t being set up for success and shared some of the areas they felt like they needed most support, including things like delegation gold. Setting managing people and that’s what really shaped the modules that we have in the program? This is a disaster. I think half field there, they’re not adequately skilled for for leading our social change sector. Yeah, you know, i think it’s symptomatic of how most non-profits actually develop people, which is they don’t really have resources to strategically support them. Typically someone is performing well and they’ll be promoted and given more responsibility but not actually get the support they need to do that well. And as a sector, we don’t actually think about management as a responsibility. So it’s not like people are getting evaluated on how well they’re managing other’s, they’re typically getting evaluated on how well they’re fund-raising how they’re running programs. So we haven’t done a very good job of building a culture around managing people or investing the resources to help people do that. Well, yeah, no kidding. I mean, i’m typically a glass half full thinker, but being exactly half empty. And this is, i think, that’s for i think it’s really bad. Uh, it’s agree? I think it was actually kind of scary if you think about how are we ensuring that? Organizations are doing their best work, and that means ensuring that people can reach their potential to do it. So i agree, i think the good news is that a lot of non-profit leaders are starting to recognize it and wanting teo invest more and developing people, and actually, a number of foundations are thinking about what their role is around supporting the sector as well. Well, year was that non-profit managerssurvey that was in twenty thirteen all right, it’s pretty recent in terms of fifty percent think the more recent research has come out from bridge span around what they’re calling the non-profit leadership development deficit really hitting on the same pieces? Yeah, do you know if it’s still equivalent fifty percent saying they didn’t look specifically at this peace? But they looked at what’s happening at the senior levels around succession planning and found a huge gap as faras what percentage of leaders were coming from within organizations versus coming from outside and best management practices that you ideally want toby cultivating leaders from within because they’re most likely to be successful on they found pretty poor numbers from the nonprofit sector overall and a cross eyes of organizations as faras how organizations were doing around developing leaders. We’ve had guests on talking about succession planning and really it’s it’s, a part of risk management. You know, you’re you’re ceo could depart or die, you know, at any moment. And what do you doing to bring people along into that role? Yeah, but risk-alternatives yeah, and i think it’s also at all levels because succession planning is for the ceo is also for the people who are doing fund-raising and programs, and we work with a lot of young leaders who feel like no one’s thinking about what their career path is that if we’re actually doing succession planning well, you’re thinking about that all the way down to the most junior levels of staff car we have just about two minutes before a break so let’s just sort of ah, touch the surface of the the emotional intelligence topic, and then we’ll have plenty of time after this break. What do you what are we talking about? Emotional intelligence? Yeah, so emotional intelligence is part of what we consider managing yourself and emotional intelligence is your ability to recognise and understand emotions both in yourself and those around you it’s different than i. Q so emotion intelligences refer to his e q q is your cognitive intelligence, but we’ve often heard us were kids ondas different than personality, which is your style? I cubine personally don’t change over time. The great thing about you is that it can be learned and developed over. Time and we think it’s really important to people success there’s actually been aa lot of research that shone that ninety percent of top performers have high i q and it’s responsible for almost sixty percent of your job performance. If you think about the work we do in the nonprofit sector, how much of it is people based that having really strong kiku is critical to ensuring that leaders are doing the best bacon? Well, it’s encouraging that your your emotional quotient can change over time, you can improve it. Yes, and part of what we see is actually, people don’t even know what you is, and so by breaking it down, it helps them think about where they’re doing well and where they can grow and put some steps towards that. Yeah, for sure, okay, we’re gonna talk about some of those steps, let’s go out for a break, and when we come back, monisha and i will continue to talk on so talking about emotional intelligence, stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published. Once a month, tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Monisha capella and i talking about emotional intelligence and you’re, you’re too emotional quotient. But it’s emotional caution, right, not emotion, question emotional, okay, otherwise you could have, like, a little rhyme, emotion, kwo, shen emotion to caution. Okay, all right, so this is our is you. Were you saying before the break? This is a very important sixty percent of our success is based on disability, too recognize and and manage emotions for ourselves and recognize them within others. Yeah. Okay. That’s. All right. That’s, that’s substantial. Now, it’s. Too bad we can’t manage the emotions of others. Can we? Can we? Well, i think one of the reasons why it is so important is if you actually understand other’s emotions, it could make you better at managing them. So there’s really four dimensions of emotional intelligence and to those are about awareness, so awareness of yourself, self awareness is being able to understand your own emotions in the moment. And, you know, what are some of your tendency? So knowing when you’re frustrated, angry, and what are some things that typically happen when you are feeling that way? There’s also a social awareness which is able to understand what our other people’s emotions on dh perceiving how they’re thinking and feeling. So those air to the components, which is really about awareness and two components you’re about management. So self management once you actually are aware of your emotions, then how do you manage them? And relationship management is about others. So once you’re aware of other people’s emotions, how do you use that to help manage interaction successfully? So, you know, as you asked, can you manage other people’s emotions? If you’re effective at social awareness and relationship management, you can can actually manage the situation where people’s emotions could come up. Okay? All right, so this awareness is huge. All right? So, it’s, basically, i think i’ll have a quick example could be even be, for example, a team meeting that you’re in and maybe there’s some bad news that’s being discussed, social awareness, taking up on how people are feeling about that, um, and relationship management would be, how are you managing those interactions? Relationship management isn’t just in the meeting, it could be actually before the meeting, if you know there’s someone who’s going teo really take this news in a deep way, actually sitting down with them beforehand so that they’re more prepared for the discussion. So what? We’re essentially talking about being aware of yourself and managing yourself and being aware of others and managing your relationships with others? Exactly, which is why why? It’s such an important part of how people do work because our work is all about ourselves and other people. And that’s why emotional intelligence is seen in such an important factor that now i could see that. You know, anger is a pretty easy one two gauge in myself in me on brothers. I mean, your flesh, your face gets flushed, your heart rate increases you probably your breathing starts getting heavy, so and you can see that in others, but but other other emotions, like empathy or sorrow and, you know you can you can see this in other people. Yeah, you can. I may. I think about sort of five core emotions that people can have. You mentioned anger, some of the other ones air happiness, sadness, being afraid or being ashamed. Those air kind of five key emotions and those air one that knowing in yourself when those air coming up and knowing those and others and there may be a spectrum of what that may look like. But it will help you manage situations better. Good. Interesting awareness is all critical. Now you got any otomi at one thing that research shows only thirty six. Percent of people can identify their emotions as they happen, so angers one that sometimes a physical ways that’s showing up, i can help people identify it, but actually it’s surprising that people really often aren’t in touch with their own emotions. Really. Now i feel okay, i feel like i’m in the thirty six percent, but everybody can’t but everybody, yeah, but everybody feels a bit. Does everybody think they can like one hundred percent think they’re in the thirty six percent? Uh, well, we find a spectrum even when we have people do self assessment around emotional intelligence, i think there’s actually some awareness around people on their gaps around that. So even in the self assessment, people will reveal that there are areas they feel like they’re aren’t doing as well around knowing their emotions or those of others. Okay, all right, so maybe i have a shot of being in the thirty six now, talking about now, managing emotions that’s different that’s, that’s different i’m saying where i think i’m aware, but management no, you have to ask my friends and, uh, and my wife, i think there’ll be much better. Judges, um, do you have any, uh, i need any good little stories about how people who have gone through the program managing for success and ah, you know, have reported back that they handled a situation much better than they feel they would have before they had become aware of their cue and this empathy with others. Yeah, we actually hear back from our love neither emotional intelligence is one of the areas that sticks with them the most, even one to two years after they go through our program. I think part of that is it’s a new concept, so many people haven’t had exposure to it, and they often don’t have time to really refer flecked on emotions and how it impacts on at work. So we hear from alumni that this shows up in a delegation and managing people, for example, someone not meeting expectations or doing work the way they would want one sort of having the self awareness to understand how that’s making them feel, and then also being able to manage themselves around, um, you know, taking time, tio pause before going to have a conversation, um and really preparing for what that might look like so that they’re not showing up in a way that would create some tension with the person that they’re trying to meet with s oh, there is so taken, give yourself a time out. Yeah, i mean, if you think about, like, good tips on self management, they’re things that i often use with my three and five year old so count to ten or pause and breeze are some of the really simple ways that you could manage your emotions, there’s a lot of research even out there that you’ve probably seen like you actually need to sleep well to be better at managing your emotions, um, and making space for time tio problem solved and thinks that you’re not feeling like you’re always running from place to place. We’ll give you more space to actually manage your own emotions. Now, if you’re using this with your three and five year old saying this, this is appropriate in the workplace also. Oh, absolutely, i mean, i think what they’re finding is that emotion, intelligence matters everywhere even schools are introducing this, but in the workplace, there’s been a big movement and the leadership development field to really make emotional intelligence more. Central so we’ve seen a lot of non-profits who are starting to introduce this as a competency for everyone in there, i don’t know is this commentary on the state of non-profit staff, if the same strategies apply for three and five year olds that apply for adult workers in the office, were what telling what you’re telling us? I don’t think it’s unique to non-profits so that’s the one thing i’ll say, we see this across people and eddie sector, um, but i think it is a state of how, as a society, we viewed emotions as kind of historically not something that you talked about at work and now or at school and now really recognizing that it is so into girl to the work we dio um, you know, if you think about when you’re working with teams, um, there’s often a saying what’s the elephant in the room well, in order to diagnose that there’s an elephant, the room, you have to have a social awareness that people are feeling something that they’re not saying so it is important for us to start talking about those things. All right? To what degree, though, now if i’m in a one on one meeting with someone, and they’re feeling let’s not deal with anger, because that seems like a simple one. Shame you mentioned shame is ah, common emotion. Do i mention to them that it looks like you’re feeling shame and remorse over what we’re talking about? Do i express it explicitly or a maior? Is there some other method? Yeah, i think one of the great things you can do as a leader or a manager to help someone, um, increase their own self awareness is actually asking questions, so you could say, you know, i noticed that you seem off or i noticed that, um, in that discussion, you weren’t contributing like you normally d’oh. So i think noticing what’s visible to you and asking them to think about what are some of the emotions that might be underlying that, okay, so get them to try toe, be forthcoming about what, what they’re feeling basically, yeah, and one of the kind of thing that we have been saying, like, you know, what pushes your buttons so that’s, something that we assume in organization that you’re going to know, but typically when something pushes your buttons that’s getting at an emotional issue and so having that trust with your drugs report, tio, help them think about what’s pushing their buttons and then together, how can you problem solve what to do in those situations? Okay, s so let’s, go back to my hypothetical the one on one suppose the person is just not, you know, forthcoming, i mean, they don’t feel like talking about their emotions, they want to keep it factual and what they would call professional just, you know, give me the news that you wanted that you brought me in here to convey, and i really don’t feel like and i don’t know how do you feel like it’s any of your business? What i’m feeling about this conversation, but what do we do there? So i think emotional intelligence and having these conversations workplace do actually try to trust and part of what you want to do is make sure you’re building a trusting relationship with the people who work for you, and they may not feel safe. Teo talk about their emotions and how that’s showing up, so if they’re not ready for it, you obviously don’t want to push it. But you do want to make sure that you’re creating that trust and that safe environment, that you’re there to help them, to think through the challenges and, um and they become or where their emotions think about how you could manage those, you know, i could given example, a colleague of mine was not a call recently with someone that we work with, and it was a fairly challenging conversation. And so afterwards, you know, we sat down and she said, you know, i’d love to talk to you about how i can manage in those situations because i could just feel myself getting really tense by the conversation, and so i appreciate the fact that we had developed this trust that she was aware to notice these emotions, and then we’ve developed trust to actually sit down and think about, well, how can she manage in those situations? And what was your advice around that? How can we? So my advice was to be taken more objective position and those conversations not to feel like she’s being personally attacked if someone’s providing some criticism or feedback, um, and tio kind of go back to this idea well, you served take the feedback, but i know that you want to process it and then follow-up later as a way so that she’s not having teo immediately respond to things that are her emotional triggers. Okay, so that’s like taking a longer time out, give yourself space to let me let me come back to you. Let me let me come back at, you know, let me know. Let me get back to you. I understand what you’re looking for and let me let me come back in whatever you know, a couple days or something with yes. And i have i have a rule of thumb that if i’m feeling matter emotional and writing an e mail not to send it so you wait an hour or wait till the next day to send it and i think that’s a good rule of thumb that time out piece? Yeah. It’s hard. Yeah, i i think we’ve all been there. The emotional email is usually one that you regret or you know, to some varying degrees, but you don’t feel good about it five minutes after you press send. Yeah, so this is really a longer process in your workplace. Is establishing this safety of talking about emotions. It’s not you can’t just spring this on somebody at a, you know, again, my my hypothetical one on one meeting, let’s, let’s talk about how you’re feeling about how you’re feeling about this. I mean, this has to be a safe environment in the office through the long term. Well, and i think a lot of it depends on the relationship between the manager and the person who’s working with them, so building that trust and safety and that you’re really there to set that person up for success. And so, you know, that depends on the culture in the organization, but it also depends on that relationship that the two people have. I keep thinking about the office with first with ricky jove, eh? And then with steve carell, you know, they try so hard to be those touchy feely managers, and, of course, you know, it’s a disaster and it’s a hilarious but s o obviously not an example, teo, to follow their example of what not we’re not. Yeah. Okay. Um okay, so we still have some some time together. Um, you have some good we should wear. Our thing i was going to say, you know, we talked a lot about the awareness side, but i think the other piece around, um, relationship management and that’s, good, but a little, you know, like when you’re working with a direct report, and you’re sensing that they may have some emotions tied to something, um, i think, really, being open and curious, so asking questions, and, um, that kind of trust that can come from taking feedback. So maybe they want to give you feedback. Um, being kind of someone that people see is someone they can go to can have really help on the relationship management side. Yes, okay, so, again, what? Steve carell was aspiring to. He, you know, they wanted people to come to them, but it was always disaster. Okay, i’m sorry. I’m sorry, i’m going back to that. Okay, i i thought it was interesting. Now, so going back, i’m gonna go back to vermont. This thirty six percent people are ableto identify their emotions. All right, so, so sixty four cannot are you able, teo, change this in the managing for success program? Yes. So one of the things that we do in managing for sixty years, we have people take a self assessment to actually sort of rate themselves on these four key components and then develop strategies on what they can do. So the self awareness piece some of the strategies are actually, um, thinking about what pushes your buttons keeping a journal about your emotions also to start kind of seeking feedback, asking other people about things that they may notice when you know, as you mentioned, when you get mad it’s very visible and maybe asking other people, how do they know when you’re feeling mad the way it even area that its most important around knowing your own emotions is actually how do you handle stress? Because that is what oftentimes can be a challenge in the workplace. Ah, and sometimes that might be a physical piece. Look, when you have stress how you handle that so start tio, get in touch with that better let’s let’s look more into listening there’s so much talk about active listening and, you know, empathetic listening, what are your recommendations about being a good listen, er, that is so important around social awareness, so in order to actually help us understand yourself, understand other people’s emotions, a lot of it is listening and it’s listening for what i said, it’s also listening for what’s not said so what might be visible or where, you know, you may be leading a conversation and where no one has anything to say. Well, that’s what’s not being said, and i think by being a really good listener, you’re able to start picking up on those emotions behind what people are saying or not saying this is something that takes practice. I mean, it was hard for me to get away from thinking about my next question while the person was talking and i don’t mean on the show necessarily, but just in life, and i realized that i’m i’m thinking about that instead of focusing on what they’re saying that it takes practice, it does, and one of the things i’ve sort of doing is actually trying to minimize taking notes at meetings, because sometimes you get so caught up in this sort of technical piece of after write down everything and you’re not actually aware of what being talked about, so just reminding herself of, you know, what are the things that you fall back on to that might be limiting your ability to hear other people or toe be in touch with what’s happening? What goes into this journal that you suggested an emotion journal journals are so critical around managing self because we don’t really have time to process a lot of what goes on at work and the ways that you can keep a journal he can have, um, journal, just about your emotions and at the end of every day, reflecting back on where what were some of the emotions you have that day, and how did that show up? It will really increase your awareness of what those our emotions are and and help you start getting better at even, um, going deeper in them. So being able to think about i was angry, was i frustrated? Or was i enraged? What? That might look like, okay, last thing i want to leave us with cause we just have about a minute before we wrap up monisha um, if all this is going to be and well, if we’re going to do all this well, we have to be ableto accept negative feedback? Yes, that is a really important part of getting better at emotional intelligence. Um, is speaking feedback and really welcoming feedback, so that means that when people give you feedback, your first answer should not be a kn explanation of why something happened, but your first answer should just be thank you for the feedback. Ah, that could be a hard thing for people, but i’ve seen for the fellows have gone through our programs that just by changing that view around feedback and something that i want that could help me really can help them, uh, step up their ability to manage their emotions better. Monisha ca piela founder and ceo of proinspire they’re at proinspire dot organ at proinspire and she’s at monisha ca piela monisha thank you so much. Thanks, tony. My pleasure, mike. Weapon and peer-to-peer tips coming up first. Pursuant and crowdster pursuant, they have online tools to help you raise more money. They are ideal for small and midsize shops because you pick on ly the tools that you need for your size and your your donor base velocity is their tool that manages your fund-raising helping you reach goals and stay on time. Time versus goal, prospector, it minds your database for your highest priority potential donors. So you know where to focus your attention. Check them out at pursuing dot com mike weapon he’s here. He’s going to be a guest in a moment. He’s, the chief product strategist for crowdster so i’m going to give mike weapon a chance in that official capacity. What sets crowdster report, mike from other peer-to-peer site. Thank you, tony. Yeah, one of the biggest keys that were really focusing on is the digital wallet on apple pay android pay. How do we think about the future? So you don’t have to that’s where we are, you know, it’s no longer a world where people are pulling out their credit cards and typing it into their phone. No one wants to do that. It’s now there’s so many one touch solutions, you know, we’re putting together a suite of those one touch solution so you can take money anywhere from anyone at any time. Check them out. Crowdster dotcom. Thank you, mike. Weapon now, time for tony’s take two my video this week. You can’t let plant e-giving questions go unanswered. It’s another story from my client baruch college someone inquired about leaving the college in his will. We answered his questions and he added a gift to the college in his will. Simple charitable bequests. What happened at the organizations that didn’t answer his questions, the video and the story at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two now let’s bring mike weapon in for a full conversation. He’s, an award winning digital strategist with over seventeen years, experience crafting online content. He had thirteen years as a digital journalist at cbs news, translating the likes of sixty minutes and cbs evening news into vibrant online stories. They need a digital marketing and awareness for autism speaks he’s now chief product strategist at crowdster mike weapon. Welcome to non-profit radio. Well, thank you for having me appreciate it. My pleasure. You’ve got some ideas around peer-to-peer crowdfunding. Well, just generally before we get into your tips, what is it generally that you feel non-profits aren’t getting right about peer-to-peer well, you know, that’s tough to say not to say that non-profits aren’t really getting it right somewhere, getting it right. The problem is it’s a moving target, what people want to do and how people are krauz co-branding really depends on, you know, you know, it’s, it starts to evan flow of what strategies work, you know, everyone got very excited about ice bucket challenge, and everyone started looking for the next ice bucket challenge, all right? But at some point, you have to decide that ship has sailed. I’d say what you have to do is stay on top of the trends, but also the real key is to is to is to focus on your volunteers and your key constituents, and those people are treat them like family because those that is your family and and listen to them, you know, you’re you’re insiders yeah, yeah, them what they want to do you have some strategies about doing that? Absolutely. Getting them onboarding early, et cetera. Okay, well, i mean, that sort of leads into one of the first ideas you have, which is no as much as you can about your constituents. Yeah, what we need to do there? Yeah, and now we have digital tools that you could do that with, you know, i’m sure most every non-profit larger, small has some sort of an email tool that they’re using a constant contact or something like that, understanding those responses, you know, dig into the analytics on those tools. A lot of people think, well, i get constant contact. I’m just gonna fire off a bunch of e mails, whatever tool you’re using, make sure you become a master of those analytics understand who’s coming back to you and what they’re saying, make sure you’re taking responses from those people and making marks and checks on those people. This these people are my hard core, you know, fundraisers for me, these people are really active at the end of the year, these people love tio attend a walk or or our five k, the annual five k these air my gala people make sure, you know, and you segment those people properly using whatever tools you have and then what? And then and then make sure your marketing something, you’ve got them segmented. Yeah. Then make sure your marketing them appropriately because, you know, you fire off one email, one missed email, right? And that turns into an unsubscribes great of, you know, two or three percent, you’re losing a chunk of people that you could have been marketing teo over the course of a year and year. Ares you know, you have to treat those relationships like gold. So so always guard against the misfire, right? Which is sending someone a mass on an e mail about hey, we need we need you to give right now when you already know that person just gave to you last week. All right? You have to know these things. Know how you’re communicating with all those right, it’s twenty sixteen. We can’t be just sending these yeah, e mails about every program to every person and whether you’re keeping whether your serum is a big, you know, massive sales force back in or whether you’re keeping it on a spreadsheet, how whatever your sizes you know, you have to know your constituents and know how your marketing to them. Okay, okay. On dh. Then how does that feed? Into our peer-to-peer campaign that we’re planning. Yeah, well, so there you have. So the real key is peer-to-peer you have to think about in the long term, so you’ve got people coming back. You have to start with what you did last year with those people, those people who are team captains, you need those team captains to come back that’s going to be your corps for the next year of your peer-to-peer so from last year, you need to have segmented them, flagged them, thie attributes of team captain? Yeah, and no and and treat them right, you know, send them those emails halfway through the year that says, hey, we recognize how much you did, and we want to send you the special award we want to send you, you know anything to recognize those individuals who are your top team team players. And also when you make an example of those people, you encourage others to join in and become those big team captains because there’s naturally going to be attrition. So you need to keep filling that filling that base off constituents feeding that pipeline? Yeah, on dh you mentioned, you know, sending them things. Or whatever. I mean, it doesn’t have to be anything expensive, and it could just be information like insider information. You’re special to us want to let you know that we’re watching a new program hyre two new, you know, hr part, you know, whatever insider information, but it doesn’t have to be expensive or time consuming to treat someone as an insider. Yeah, no, absolutely. And and so i work with a with a non-profit called mobius syndrome foundation. I have a son with moebius syndrome. It’s. An extremely rare condition. We’re talking, you know, maybe ten thousand people around the world that have this condition extremely rare. But it’s a tight knit community. Ah, it’s, a small organization. We just hired our first full time person. Right. So what are the real top people get right is we get a q and a with that with that person, right? You know how they how did they do it? Ah, i’m sorry. A conference call or yeah, but it’s actually, actually, she reached out. She reached out directly because it’s a small organization, you know? And it was that sort of that. That one on one relationship, right? Okay. Of reaching out to keep people in the community the advantage of small non-profits have you can do that one to one contact intimate. I could spend a half an hour getting to know you that large organizations don’t have the luxury of absolutely not even can really must write. You really have to. Ok? Because, you know and there’s, you know. And you have to remember that it’s a gray area between fund-raising an awareness, right? You have to merge those too. You know, if your organization has a big walker, a five k that’s, your big event, that event is not just about raising funds. It’s also about all those groups, all those families and individuals getting together and bonding, you know, it’s an experience, and you have to respect that experience. So that so askew got a q and a with the new development director. Is that right at that? Mobius that moby syndrome? Yeah. That’s. Magnificent. So you just you got an opportunity to talk to her, him or her for one on one? Absolutely. And what she did, which, you know, she reached out. And she knew that at the time i was working at autism speaks on dh. She was you know, she looked at my bio and said, hey, let’s talk what can we do together? Yeah, you know? All right. All right, lots of lessons there. I mean, whatthe small non-profit khun do how to be good to your insiders. Want to one face to face contact? Magnificent. All right, early on your first idea, we’re gonna run out of time. No, no, no. I never shortchanged non-profit radio. Um, you, uh you want to respect the funnel? Don’t get in the way when somebody wants to do something simple and force them somewhere. Yeah, so you know, often when you have the big fund-raising meeting, you know how often you have it at your organization. Chances are, especially if you start to bring in mohr say boardmember zor or top volunteers everyone’s going tohave an idea about how to fund-raising how you want to get people. Ah, how do you want to get people involved and how you can raise money, but remember that there has to be a level of simplicity for your average doner co-branded start to build out those digital tools. And here i’m talking about the digital funnel is make sure that as soon as you have someone committed to a donation, don’t get in the way just allow them to donate, keep your forms a simple as possible. This isn’t a good time to say hey, do you want to donate? Would you also like tio volunteer? Would you also like tio fund-raising you like to build a page at the same time? Just let them donate, get them to that complete that one cycle, then you can start to ask them questions on dh see how, how, how engaged they are, how much they want to be involved with the organization, but once you sort of have offered on action, take that action all the way through now. It’s not just donations also registration if someone wants to register for an event that you’re throwing, let them register, don’t hit them up for a donation mid sent mid mid process. Make sure that it’s laser focused with that single call to action. Now you’ll probably hear that in some other places, but i can’t stress it enough is that when that single call to action, whether it be through an e mail or through your website or through social media followed that was saying, make a single, ask and follow that single called action all the way through, similar to advice that we’ve had guests share on direct mail. The the ideal direct mail is a single purpose. It’s our annual or it’s our gala or it’s a planned e-giving mailing its single purpose. Yeah, absolutely. And this also ties into knowing your knowing your constituents because you, you know, you see what i see, the sort of the fallacy of the of the, uh of the marketing email is often ill. See, hey, you can get involved one of three ways you can either do you can either volunteer, you can register or you could just donate. You know you can’t give those people the option when you know when you know your constituents, you know, who’s has a propensity to give who has a propensity to be a volunteer and who has a propensity to register for that walk no those constituents and give them a single ask. And as you had said earlier, target on dh market to them, appropriately exact based on their history. All right. Ah, the fundraiser life cycle. We won’t say about the book that yeah, so, you know, this is the concept that you this is a long term relationship, you know, you know, i used to say when i was at autism speaks is, you know, we’re not selling soap here, you know, we’re selling, we’re not selling, you know, what we’re doing is we’re getting people to join, we want people to be involved, and this is a mission for us, you know, everything about what we dio has to be tied to the mission. So how are those people going to get involved? I don’t just want them to say, well, here is a donation, and you guys take it and run, and maybe i’ll see you in a couple of years. We want people to join in with the organization and think about how it fits in with their lifestyle. So a cz you get someone so that way, once you get someone into the fold of your organization, then you have set up so that you can allow them to grow inside of it. So ah, one way that we get a lot of constituents to some of the the non-profits we work with it, crowdster is, we start with, um, sororities, fraternities, right young people who are very active, they tend to show up. They tend to do a lot of social media. They hung over when they show up. Well, that’s, why we hold on, dave that’s later in the day, right? Nothing. No eight a m you know it have seven a m five k run that sunday morning, though. Ah, but, you know, get those once you have those people interested in in the in the organization, you know, in four years they’re going to be very different fundraisers for you. So once you get them in and keep them active, they’re showing up, but in four years, they’re going to have a good job and they’re going to be have more propensity to give or they, you know, a little later, they may have the kids and they may want to get their kids involved, you know, treat that donors if they’re going to be with you for a long time. Yeah, it’s just you know, is you have to understand is that you want to build a long term relationship, it’s much easier to keep a donor than thing to get a donor. Oh, for sure, but numerous guests of but i’m glad you grab repeated and it’s funny because they cost so much to acquire. Yeah, and i was thinking about when i was, you know, when i was a kid, my father was part of knights of columbus and they supported the special olympics. You know, we didn’t have any connection with any connection to special olympics, but my father loved sports. We loved watching track and field sports. He brought us a za kid. So that’s, something that i took with me and continue to do that type of giving back to the community to the to the special olympics community in high school is part of my confirmation process. You know, excellent. Eso, right? No personal connection other than your your dad introducing you and it’s just becoming sort of ah, family tradition. Yeah. Yeah. And the special effects is a great organization. As you know, you know of really including full community. You know, the great mission. Cool. Alright, the lifestyle. Yeah. And, you know, we get into psychosocial factors to then you have to recognize that, you know? So we start with the sorority, and then they’ve got a full time job, but maybe less, less time, because they’re in there in a high pressure job so less time. But they’ve got greater capacity to give, and then, as children come, maybe maybe depending on who stays at home, if anybody, maybe that person has a little more time, as could start to go to school. But before school age, they don’t, you know all those psycho social fact, and they may have mohr mohr, time, teo to join in, join in ah, events that are more family rented. Yeah, right, of course, including the family. Yeah, as your dad did with special olympics. Exactly. All right, let’s, go out for a break. We come back, mike, and i’m going to keep talking about his peer-to-peer tips. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that or neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Welcome back. I’m with mike webb in chief product strategist for crowdster and of course crowdster a sponsor happy to have them on the show with with value around your peer-to-peer fund-raising campaigns whether it’s going to be the first one of your next one howto improve these things and raise the money that you need you talk about do-it-yourself fund-raising yeah, yeah, what we call third party fund-raising or do-it-yourself fundraiser way you know, the idea there is that and this this khun lend itself to smaller organizations in particular, the organizations that don’t have sort of a core event or siri’s of events, walks or runs. This allows users to basically create a fundraising event around anything that’s of interest to them. So there may be people have a big bowling league. Ah, they can start a fund-raising ah event or siri’s of events on our platform on crowdster and and raise money for a particular organization. We also have are some even smaller organizations that create a whole platform for this. So if someone comes in and they developed templates for them, so it may be a birthday party, so wants to give their birthday someone wants. To throw a, you know, a wedding registry things like then, you know, our our platform takes it a little further than some of the others because it allows both the event and then the personal pages built off of that similar to some of the really big guys out in there, out in the space to really have that full so so user can come in and really build out a full fund-raising apparatus around a small event, some of the things that may be something the cheaper off the shelf products don’t teo and now, um, there has to be a balance between making this a simple process for the users, the donors on also for the team fundraisers, but then there has to be a degree of, you know, basic functions or maybe more than just basic. So we gotta we gotta balance between these, you know, if again not i don’t want to focus on crowdster but but if you’re evaluating sites, how do you decide if the balance is correct? He’s just based on what you think it ought to be? Or is there some kind of benchmark or something? Yeah, and that is how we’re gonna find the right site. That is the right balance. Yeah, and that is that that is a tough balance to make, you know, you you know what? We do a crowdster we have sort of a we have a very simple form you khun spent up a site in, you know, fifteen minutes, probably less. And then you can go into an advanced view and get a whole series of tools, you know, and and you have to again, if you know your constituents, if you know that core group of constituents that’ll help you in choosing a peer-to-peer fund-raising platform think about as you go and look at the tool. You know what? What are the key things that my constituents are asking before? Are they asking me for the ability to create teams? Are they asking me for the ability ability to donate in someone’s name? What of these? You know, one thing that, you know, i’ve discovered over the over the years of working with non-profits is there’s a very, very unique requirements around each individual organization, you know, they’re not all the same, they all have different fund-raising needs and that’s what i’d say. Look for a platform that’s as versatile as possible. Okay, okay. Um, the, you know, this is all about humans. This is all friends where we bring our networks in our friends are whether it’s, our teams or our family um, you want to make sure that the people who are fund-raising for you have enough say in in in the pitches sight and in the asking their message can come through personally, yeah, absolutely. And that should be tied. That should be a core, a core factor in whatever platform you choose but also a core factor in your social strategy. If no one’s people are going to give to a human face that if if you’re organization is around a certain medical condition, they’re going to give to people who have been affected by that condition, they’re not necessarily going to be you’re not going to give two x y z foundation or x y z society, right? They want to give to that individual they want to give to the person they know and that’s really the key is that so then make sure that your platform is telling their story, allowing them to tell their story. Allowing them to tell their story, you’re making it really easy for them to tell their own story, you know, are you allowing them to put up video? Are you allowing them to social share very easily? Are you allowing them to write two paragraphs and in bed photos? You no photos? Just, you know, photo cell, how many photos are you allowing them to put up? You know, are you letting them put in, like, a photo carousel that that people can click through and see sort of a progression of a child with a certain condition that may be, you know, something they live with over many years and progress through? Yeah, you had said earlier, you know, knowing your constituency in terms of what functionality versus simplicity you need, it could be just a simple is asking some of those key volunteers that the team captains, you know, what’s what’s important to you. I don’t know if it’s a survey or if it’s a face-to-face or however you but, you know, solicit the input of those key players as toe what they want. Yeah, absolutely. And that brings it all full circle, right? You’ve got to really get those people involved on dh. They’ll tell you what they want, and we did a lot of this. We did. A lot of this is all you got to ask. Yeah, yeah, we did a lot of this. That autism speaks where we had some real key people in different, you know, in in different we were talking about our walk program there, cem really vital volunteers. Some of them had really great digital skills just in there, you know? And they’re nine to five job. Others were good marketers. Other we’re just really carrying individuals. And we put together an advisory group that said, hey, what do you guys want in this next redesigned to the platform, you know, tell us what you want and a few things, you know, happen. You know, when you when you try to organize things from sort of the the organizational level, you think you i had a tendency, i would say to think in sort of numbers and and think about how do i how do i monitor? And what are my kp eyes? And you start to get a little business durney martignetti non-profit rating of drug in jail, but what is the k p i? Well, you know, aki performance indicator, you know? So you start to say, well, if i send out x number of emails, how many getting back and you start to think about what i want to be able to monitor this and blah, blah, blah and, you know, i had, ah, one of the art top volunteers, a really great guy reached out to me and he said, mike, you know, we’re doing we’re just sending out e mails in our own name we’re not sending you know, we’re making sure that, you know, the subject line is coming from me, the volunteer, not from you, you know? And that was one of the best things that was one of the greatest little changes that we made, you know, as opposed to handing them, saying, this is the perfect temple we’ve made the perfect meal for you, and you are now going to send it out and it’s going toe, you know, raise you a ton of money, you know, what they found is that if i write an e mail from me, you know, the guy who was who started this great walk you know, it’s not a big walk, but the people are really involved with the same people coming back, and they love it if the email comes from me and not from your organization, you know, people respond, you know, and it’s, you know, that’s, just one of those many sort of apple falling on my head type of thing where it’s like it’s got to be about your people. Look, they’re message come out. Yeah, okay, timing you can use you can use timing to your advantage. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and that’s where i i like to say that you have tio you can’t create urgency. You have to identify urgency, you know, on dh you see this sometimes with certain e-giving days that may fall flat because someone said, well, you know, march first works for me so let’s have e-giving day on march first and will lead up to it and everyone please give on march first, you know, but there’s, nothing really tight to it. All right? You know it. Autism speaks. Obviously, we had autism awareness day, world autism or to stay in real second. It made perfect sense, right? We need to you know, we need to get your urgency around because this is when we have the world’s focus on this condition. So we need you to get involved. We need you to register. We need you to turn the world blew on that day. You see it around a lot of other sort of, you know, when there’s a fundraising goal, we need it because it’s going to fund x number of of services for these individuals who need, you know, at autism or a ta that moby syndrome, the moby syndrome foundation. We have a big conference. We want to fund way want to fund scholarships for people to come to this conference because some of these people are all over the world. They don’t have the kind of money to come to los angeles this summer. So we want to put together so there’s a you know, there’s a deadline for that we need money so that we can pay for these people’s plane tickets to get them to this wonderful community where they’re going to see people. Some of these people have never met someone with moebius syndrome. We’ll be syndrome is a facial. Ah! Ah! Ah. Has ah, facial deformity. Paralysis. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We have to leave it there. Thank you very much. Excellent. Thanks for the tips. Cool. All right, well, thank you for having me. Mike weapon, chief product strategist at crowdster crowdster dot com next week. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor returns. If you missed any part of today’s show, i simply ask you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? I need a sign. I need some kind of sign the way forward. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with, as mike described apple pay crowdster dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is a line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? 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Nonprofit Radio for August 21, 2015: Online And At Risk & Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Diane Oates: Online and at Risk?

Do you accept donations online? Have a “donate now” button? Are you using crowdfunding sites? You may need to register with lots of states, not just your own. Diane Oates is an assistant attorney general in the consumer protection division of the Florida AG’s office and a former National Association of State Charities Officials (NASCO) board member. (Originally aired July 11, 2014.)


Gene Takagi: Your Board’s Role in Executive Hiring

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO), walks us through this important board responsibility: hiring the executive officer.  (Originally aired July 11, 2014.)




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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with dextrose gas trea, if i was forced to stomach the mere hint that you missed today’s show online and at risk, do you accept donations online? Do you have a donate now button? Are you using crowd funding sites? You may need to register with lots of states, not just your own. Diane oates is an assistant attorney general in the consumer protection division of the florida attorney general’s office and she’s, a former national association of state charities officials boardmember that’s nasco and that originally aired on july eleventh twenty fourteen also, your board’s role in executive hiring jean takagi, our monthly legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo walks us through this important board responsibility hyre ing the executive officer that’s also from the july eleventh show last year on tony’s take two, i’m not speaking to the new york times we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com here is online and at risk with diane oats with me she’s an assist, associate assistant attorney general in the ohio attorney generals charitable law section. She had been with the office for eight years. Managing a broad range of cases, including charitable gambling and charitable solicitations. She has handled multiple investigations and enforcement actions and is ohio’s point person for multi state enforcement actions. Diana it’s, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony, for having me on. Thank you very much for holding on. Sorry about that. No problem. I hope you enjoyed the music. Oh, i did, um, let’s. See, so these are laws that non-profits have to comply with. And a lot of these laws haven’t really kept up with the new solicitation methods that that charities have that’s correct. A lot of the laws are are older and do not address any sort of internet solicitations. Ah, there are such guy lines is the charleston principles which charities can follow in determining whether they need to register in a variety of states that they are soliciting online right? And we’ll get a chance to talk about the charleston principles. It’s, it’s, but there’s there’s not only online. But then there’s also the mobile giving world, of course, and that is growing by leaps and bounds. We actually just had a multi state they nasco it’s, the national state association charity officials put out some wise giving tips for charities on how to manage ah, and be wise on the internet when doing any sort of mobile giving or any sort of internet solicitation. So you definitely charity should be definitely protecting their brand and making sure they know who is soliciting for them on the internet. Um, and we’re going to get to that document in the wise giving tips the primary question, i think, is what what is a solicitation? And unfortunately that really varies from state to state, you’re correct. In a lot of states, the definitions might be a little bit different in ohio. Uh, it is when a person asked for anything of value, so it can’t be money can be time, and that donation would benefit a charitable organization or a charitable purpose and that’s that’s fairly consistent across the states. But but there are there are nuances when you start to drill down into well, okay, so sending us mail asking for a donation. That’s, that’s. A solicitation everywhere but as you start to go down, too, email oppcoll having a donate. Now, button on your site, driving people to the donate now button that’s, where it starts to get a little murky across the states. Definitely, and that’s, where the charleston principals come into play, and that’s, where the differences arise, because i believe only two states, tennessee and colorado, have adopted the charleston principles into law. Ah, many other states, including ohio, used them as guidelines for when to determine if a charity needs to register with our state if they have such a thing as it donate now, button or any sort of online solicitation. Okay, so we know that they’re adopted in only two states. Right now. Suppose you’re not in aa one of those two states. Can you just pick up the phone and talk to somebody and ask whether they use the charleston principles as guidelines? I would advise calling either the attorney general and your state or the secretary of state’s office, whichever office has the charity regulator located in it and see how they treat the charleston principles you could call up if you’re in ohio, call up our office, we would be able to tell you we used merely as guidelines to guide us as to whether charity needs to register. Obviously, if you are located in a certain state, if you’re located in ohio and you’re soliciting from there, you would have to register anyways, if you’re not let’s, say you’re located in west virginia, then we would go through the factors with you to see if you would need to register in ohio simply by having a donate. Now button on your website. A lot of times, though, i find clients make a call like that, but ultimately the final responsive to get is always we can’t tell you or we can’t advise you whether to register, okay, that and that might be the response in some states and ohio. I mean, we we would try to help you out as much as possible again, we can’t give legal advice, but i mean, i think we could steer you in the right direction isto whether you would need to register or not looking at whether you are, you know, mailing or emailing any solicitations to someone in ohio, if you are soliciting through an interactive website meaning you can collect donations straight through that website and whether you’re these are the two big factors whether you’re specifically targeting a person in our state or whether you’re receiving donations from a purse from people in our state on a repeated an ongoing basis or substantial basis, that so we would go through those factors and try to work with the charity to figure out whether you need to register here or not. We would definitely do that, ok, maybe ohio’s friendlier than a lot of states that that may very well be, but and i’m not saying it’s not worth the call it’s just that because it definitely is worth the call. As you said, either to the attorney, general’s office or the secretary of state, it is worth the call. This is that sometimes, you know, the ultimate answer should i register falls on usually it falls to the to the charity and, you know, and they’re sort of referred to their legal advisors, but it’s still worth the call because, um, you can you can get a fair amount of help. Definitely. Okay, um, we have just about a minute or so before break. Why don’t you explain what thes charleston principles are just so so everyone’s acquainted with them? Sure, they are guidelines which, uh, charity can follow, too. See if they should register in a state merely if they are soliciting on the internet. So what they need to look at if they are domiciled in a state, they will probably need to register there. And what i mean by domiciled is if they have their principal place a business in that state, if they’re not domiciled in the state, they need to look at there. Ah, non internet activities. And if those alone would cause them to register in that state, like if they’re mailing or calling people in that state, they would need to register if they are just asking for donations through their website. And if they’re either specifically targeting people in that state on their website for donations or they’re receiving contributions from that state on a repeated and ongoing basis for a substantial basis, then they would need to register in that state all about looking at the contacts in that state. All right, we’re going to take this break. When we come back, we’ll find out where we can see the charleston principles. They actually happen to be my subway read. I carry them with me all the time, and i read them every, you know, like, every six months or so, i just go back and read them on ben. Diane and i will we’ll keep talking about what’s a solicitation on, including talking about crowd funding sites to stay with us. Could you tell at the beginning of that interview that i was badly out of breath? That’s because i was late to the studio. This was the one hundred ninety ninth show. Andi was the first time i had been late. I had teo either called or texted sam. He had to play the music. I like one and a half times over by the time i got here i had run from the subway, which which is what held me up. So yes, if you if you thought i was out of breath, you were right. And then i i was looking forward to the two hundred show and hoping that i wouldn’t be late for that which which i was not let’s, do some live. Listen, love before we go to this break st louis, missouri clifton, new jersey i used to hang out at clifton a lot because my grandmother used to work at a big pharmaceutical company in clifton son of a gun. Which one was that? I don’t think it was mark. Well, there was a big pharmaceutical company i don’t think is very big and clifton anymore, but she used to work there and i would go meet her after and then my parents were dropped me off. We’d meet her there, and then she would take me to her house. That was in clifton, and we have another us, your masked we see you, we just don’t know where you are. So could be the nsa, fbi, cia, some other acronym. We’re on to you, and we are we are investigating. Also, let’s go to aa japan, konnichi wa, too, in chino, maya and mexico city, mexico, is with us. Also. Hola, que tal that’s really about the best i can recall from from high school, but that’s not so bad. I mean, i think, it’s, how you doing? Right. Holacracy tall tower, mexico city listeners and there’s more to come. Let’s, go to this break, and then we’ll go right back into this interview with diane oats. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent got lots of live listener love, let’s start domestic because we’ve got a lot of foreign listeners, of course, but let’s start domestic bethpage, new york. Many in bethpage don’t know who’s in bethpage do you know each other in bethpage live? Listen, her love to you there. Beverly, massachusetts, new bern, north carolina. I just spent some very nice time in north carolina. Thank you. New bern. Columbus, ohio. New york, new york. Live listener loved each of our live listeners. And, of course, there are more podcast pleasantries, of course, to those listening on the time shift where the iran a treadmill car, subway airplane, wherever you are, pleasantries to you. Nine thousand plus ofyou. Okay. Diana it’s. Um, let’s. See, where can we? What? We find these charleston principles to go and read them ourselves? If we would like to do so, i believe they’re located on the nasco net website. You can go to nasco net dot or ge. Okay. And that’s an a s c o net dot org’s the national association of state charities officials of which you are a boardmember. Yeah. And that’s, the organization that created the wise giving tips documents. So while we’re talking about finding documents, what what’s the full name of that document? Sure, it’s the internet and social media solicitations wise giving tips and the tips are for three separate audiences for charities, donors and fund-raising platforms, and it gives recommendations and tips on how to give and fund-raising wisely online. All right, the internet and social media solicitations wise giving tips and that’s also on the nasco website, right? Correct. Okay, crowd funding the crowd funding sites. Those raised a lot of questions. I get this a lot when i’m doing speaking, what if we are using crowd rise or deposited gift? What do who’s supposed to register them? Right? If you’re a charity again, i would direct the charity to the charleston principles. Usually on those websites, you’re not targeting a specific state unless maybe an event is taking place in a certain state or, you know, your charity is located in that state, so and i think it’s unclear also, whether the fund-raising platforms themselves need to register with states that’s still kind of an open question, okay? And also get questions related. When charity’s air working with community foundations and and the foundation is sort of the past through for the for the donations, the question then is who should be fun? Who should be registering and again looking at the charleston principles if it’s just a passer, entity that’s just doing some administrative work with processing donations, they might not need to register, so i would again and advise those community foundations toe look at the principles right for the community foundations and then the charity’s the same who exactly? Okay, but yeah, as we said, unfortunately, you don’t know for sure, except for two states, whether the state is is adhering to the principles. How come, how come, why is it that more states haven’t adopted them either? Officially, i guess through their legislatures or may be not as an act of the legislature, but just officially through the office that manages the charity registration process in each state, and that is a good question. I am not. I’m not really sure of the answer there, and yeah, i should probably talk to tennessee in colorado and see how they got that pushed through. I’m not sure why more states haven’t actually officially adopted them, okay, dahna because they are really cool, and they’re called charleston principles because i believe it was in meeting of nasco that was held in charleston, south carolina, where they were. These were adopted. I think they were. The discussion started there, yes, in charleston, south carolina, that’s. Why they’re called goodbye, not okay, but maybe not adopted there. Alright, yeah, attorney holding my feet to the fire e used to be an attorney, but so now that now i run roughshod over things. So thank you for being explicit. Okay, what about? We know there’s one state where you don’t have to register. Tell us about that. I believe that. Arizona? Yes. Yes, arizona. I believe they recently did away with their registration statue. I’m not too sure about that, but that is not a growing trend that icy. Definitely. I see that kind of an outlier. Okay, okay. So one point does not one data point does not make a trend. Things that i can’t even make a line from one point. Okay, but yes, arizona has explicitly said charities that are on ly soliciting in our state. I don’t need to register and yeah, they had a statutory system around registration and that was repealed or, you know, largely repealed. Yes. Um, now you made a point earlier that we wanted i want, like, just liketo amplify your home state where your incorporated that we should certainly be registered there. Yes, than any place where you have any principal place of business. Well, okay. So differentiating the inc you’re you’re only incorporated in one state, right? Because you’re not you’re not not-for-profits corporation, and that can only be one state. But you could have places of business. In lots of states, you can have the principal place of this that’s, probably in one state, but then you can have multiple locations everywhere and if you’re, you know, conducting solicitations from those locations and yes, definitely should be registering in the states. Now you’re you’re a, uh an important player in this because you’re a nasco boardmember but it’s so, um, divers, because we’re fifty difference sets of statutes and, um, timetables and fees and things do you do you get frustrated by this process? It it can get frustrating. And we definitely hear from our constituent charities that it is frustrating and that’s why we do have twelve states that are working on a single poor, cracked the website where charities khun go and register and they wouldn’t have to duplicate the process over and over again. Okay, this is the single portal initiative. Exactly. What more can you tell us about what state that is? Or i don’t mean state. You know what? What state it’s in, etcetera. What can you tell us? Uh, well, the single portal project is being headed by twelve pilot states. They include california, illinois, alaska, colorado, connecticut, hawaii, massachusetts, michigan. Mississippi, missouri, new hampshire and tennessee and basically it’s, a project that has three components one obviously is to create a unified elektronik registration system that will allow non-profit organizations and then they’re professional fundraisers to goto one site and fulfill their registration requirements for all states eventually at that site. Um, another component is also to be a public website where anyone can get this information that’s filed, academics could get it tio create analysis of emerging issues and trends. The public can look up this information to make more informed choices about their charitable giving and also non-profits can look up this information to compare thie effectiveness and cost of their professional fundraisers that they hyre and third, this would be a great tool for regulators. They could direct their limited resources away from registration and toward their core purpose of preventing fraud and misuse of charitable funds. Is this ah, envision to be a free site for charities? Um, that is a good question. I not sure about that. I know that this is kind of a three year time period where they’re going to try to get this off the ground rather soon and have it. Build up in phases over the next three years. I am not sure about the fees. I do not know that. Ok, ok. Um, timetable do what stage is it at now? It is at the beginning stages. Thie pilot states created a nonprofit organization in delaware. Teo, help develop and operate the website. And they just decided that the urban institute they chose them to design and build the single portal website. So it’s in the process of being built. And they are also establishing an advisory committee to help with the design and operation of the system. Okay, is it is it funded yet? Or were steven still too early for that it’s in the process of funding and the the non-profit, the multistate registration of filing portal the non-profit that was formed is reaching out to the non-profit community. Now, with grant proposals to help build up funds for this project. Okay, so that’s something to look forward to. Handup so is there not yet a timetable? Like when this should be live? Or maybe not all twelve states, but at least some initial minimum viable version? Um, i think i mean, the goal is to roll. Out the stages in the next three years. So hopefully in the next, maybe two years, the registration sites would be up and running. But please don’t call me that, okay? Okay, we won’t. Nobody listens to this show anyway, diane so you’re fine. Okay, well, we know that arizona standing alone. Not a trend, but are there any other trends that you do see coming up? The big trend icy is internet fund-raising on and that’s. Why nasco did put out this wise internet giving tips the intern fund-raising on the internet is growing. I believe in two thousand three it was about six point four percent of all charitable giving, but still it’s growing lead some bounds year by year. So we were really urge charities. Teo be aware of their presence on the internet and be aware of who’s raising money for them on the internet. A lot of thes fund-raising websites, they download the database of charities from guide star. And then anyone can just go on and start fund-raising for a charity, which is great. But you also want to make sure that no impostors are going out there and claiming that their associate it with your charity and trying to gain access to your donations, so check out the wise giving tips on also the charleston principles those will help you, andi will put, ah, put links to those on the takeaways from the show, which go up on the facebook pages afternoon diane, please leave us with the nasco conference that the charities are welcome to come, too. Yes, definitely. The two thousand fourteen nasco conference is on monday, october six, at the hyatt regency washington on capitol hill in washington, d c the theme this year is the evolving role of charitable regulation in the twenty first century. There are a lot of great panel scheduled i’ll just mention a couple first will be disaster relief and opportunities for collaboration between regulators and the not for profit sector. Um, our luncheon topic is our charities really charitable with our keynote speakers? Thomas kelly, who is a professor at u n c school of law, and john columbo, who’s, professor and interim dean at the university of illinois at chicago school of law and then one panel, i think, is going to be extremely interesting about ratings and evaluating charities. We have three. Panelists are taylor, who is president and ceo of the better business bureau. Wise getting alliance. Daniel bora chop, who is president of charity watch, and ken berger, who is the ceo of charity navigator. And then we also have panels on a messa you bit executive compensation are wise giving tips and then also a single portal update, so it should be a great conference, and you can get more information about the conference at nasco. Net dot org’s, thank you very much. Art taylor and ken berger have been guests on the show when we did the, uh, the altum the myth, the what was it, thea, the overhead myth letter that’s, right? We have the three signers of the overhead myth letter on and those they were two of them. All right, diane, thank you very much. Thank you, my pleasure, diana it’s, associate assistant attorney general in the ohio attorney general’s charitable law section. And i have an update tio what? Diane, i’m just talking about if you’re interested in this year’s nasco conference, that is october fifth of this year and ah, nasco net dot or ge is the place to get more information. I called my mother on the brake and asked her the company that my grandmother used to work for in clifton i was mistaking it was not a pharmaceutical company, but was i t and t international telephone and telegraph? Do they even exist anymore? It and t i don’t i don’t know if they do, but that was where there was a big plant that my grandmother worked at when i was growing up. Tony, take two and your boards role in executive hiring are coming up first. Pursuant, they do full service fund-raising they have web based tools for small and midsize non-profits do you need more prospects? I hear that a lot that that’s a problem. You need more prospects at higher levels and related to that. How do you know who’s capable of upgrade? This is what pursuance prospector platform does. It finds your upgrade ready donors. So you know who to pursue for larger. E-giving trent riker is the ceo at pursuing he has a background in non-profits for about twelve years, he leads this company. They are data driven, technology driven, and prospector platform is one of pursuing smart online tools. You’ll raise more money pursuant. Dot com, check them out new york times i’m not speaking to the new york times, and i implore them to stop stealing my guests. It happened latest incident. Latest incident was just last week. Remember, will mccaskill, the professor from oxford, oppcoll what happened? Okay, i do love scott stein, but not his time. Are we okay? Okay. I don’t mind. Scott stein a little. Well, who? Um it was a phantom sam throwing his arms up. He doesn’t know what happened. All right. Anyway, we’ll mccaskill so he’s on the show last friday. Of course, talking about his show doing good, his book doing good, better. And then on saturday, he’s in the new york times profiling his book doing good, better you believe that? And there was another time it was about two or three years ago and i’m sick of it. It’s happening too often do two points like that make a trend? Absolutely. The video where i explain this in more detail and you’ll see my ire. Is that tony martignetti dot com knock it off new york times do you know about fund-raising fundamentals? That is my monthly ten minute podcast devoted to fund-raising only for small and midsize shops, it’s fund-raising only not on ly for small and midsize shops, large shops could listen to, but i’m not thinking about them when i’m producing the show it’s a burst of fund-raising info i would say it’s only once. A month, i do it for the chronicle of philanthropy. So that’s published on their site and like non-profit radio, i picked the brains of experts and you listen on your own schedule. That one is not live. That is strictly a podcast. Recent ones preparing for your next recession with paul rosenberg from the bridge band group and boosting your plan e-giving with our own creative producer claire meyerhoff there’s info on fund-raising fundamentals at tony martignetti dot com and at the chronicle of philanthropy. Although gotomeeting durney dot com because i need the traffic and chronicle of philanthropy is doing just fine. That is tony’s take two for friday twenty first of august thirty third show of the year. Here is r wonderful. Ah, informative. Smart contributor on the law, jean takagi on your boards role in executive hiring jean takagi he’s with us. You know him? He’s, the managing editor, attorney at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the very popular non-profit law block dot com on twitter he’s at g tak g ta ke jin takagi welcome back. Hi, tony in congratulations on one ninety nine. I’m looking forward to two hundred next week. Cool. Yes. I’m glad you’re gonna be calling in for with us. Thank you very much. Thank you, it’s. Very exciting. Really? One hundred ninety nine shows ago. It’s one hundred ninety nine weeks it’s it’s. Remarkable. Um, we’re talking this week about the board’s role in hiring the executive and i’ve i understand that there are a lot of executives in transition. I think so, tony and it looks like some surveys have confirmed that it’s certainly been syrians with some of my clients and even on boards i’ve sat on over the last couple years. And there’s, a great group called compass point out in san francisco there nationally known as one of the most respected non-profit support centers and together with blue avocado, a non-profit online publication, they have a national survey on leadership succession in transition going on just right now. The last time they published the results with in two thousand eleven, and they found that sixty seven percent of current executive anticipated leaving within five years and ten percent. We’re currently actively looking to leave right then, and in two thousand eleven, the economic times weren’t so were so great. So sixty seven percent anticipating leaving within five years that’s a pretty staggering number. So now we’re already three years into that survey into that five year projection. Yeah, and sixty seven percent of two thirds. So if we had held this show off until two thousand sixteen, then it would have been moved. But there’s a new one coming out, you said, yeah, well, they’re they’re just starting the survey online now so you can participate on that. I don’t know the website, but if you, you know google non-profit transition survey executive transition survey, thank you, you’ll get that okay, and its compass point it’s a compass point and blew up a goddamn kottler who you’ve. You’ve mentioned blue vaccaro before i know. All right, so, yeah, two thirds of of ceos were expecting to be in transition within five years and where we’re only three years into it now. So the presumably these people are still looking. What? But boards don’t really spend enough time preparing for this kind of succession, do they? Well, you know, in many cases they don’t, and sometimes, you know, they might stay, they don’t get the chance because their executive director comes up to them and give us in two weeks notice, and now, you know, the board may be used to meeting every month or every other month or even every third month, and now all of a sudden they’ve gotta ramp up their efforts and find an executive to come in in two weeks. That’s going to be really tough to do on dh, you know, again, if we say at any given time, two thirds of the non-profit executives are looking to leave their job, you know, it’s very likely that within your board term, you know, you may have an executive transition to manage, and sometimes with very little notice. So that’s that’s? Why? I think succession planning is just really a core duty of non-profit board. Well, how do we let them get away with this two week notice? I mean, the ones i typically see are you know, the person will stay on until a successor is found, you that’s, not your experience. Well, you know, you’re really lucky if you if you do get that situation, i think most non-profit executives are hired on at will basis. Meaning that there’s, not a contract to stay there for a given number of years. Either party can conception, rate or terminate the employment relationship at any time. And as the average, you know, employee may give two weeks notice to go on to another job there. Many executives who feel the same way that they, you know, they may feel like they own allegiance to an organization. But another opportunity comes up and it’s not going to be held for them forever. And they may want to move on. Um, and they may feel like what they gave the board really advanced notice that they might be looking for something that they might get terminated. So they may keep that information from the board until the last two weeks. Well, because all right, so that i am way in the dark because i would. I just presumed that executive directors, ceos even if small and midsize shops were not at will. But they were but that they were contract. I mean, when i was a lonely back in my days of wage slavery, director of planned e-giving i was in at will employees, which means you can end it. Like you said, you could end at any time and so can they like, if they don’t like the color of your tie one day they can fire you, you’re at will. But but that that’s typical for for ceos and and executive directors. Yeah, i think for smaller non-profits it’s very, very common. Oh, i just always assumed that these were contract positions with termination clause is and no. Okay, but, i mean, you know, it’s, your practice, i’m not i’m not disagreeing with you, i’m just saying i’m okay, i’m learning something s so that’s that’s incredibly risky. So it is. It just put you in that position of saying, well, i need to replace somebody immediately and i don’t you know, as a board we don’t meet very often can we even convene within the two weeks to find the process going? It’s going to be so much better if he had a plan of what happened in case you know, our executive every doesn’t give two weeks notice, and even if the executive says, you know, in your scenario, maybe a longer notice, maybe, you know, in six months, if they do have a contract at the end of my contract, i don’t plan to renew, you know, i think we should go through the process of looking for for a successor and having a plan or thinking about that plan that is just coming up with something on the fly is going to probably result in a much better choice for selection of a leader in the future and that’s going to be critical and how well the organisation operates and how the beneficiaries of your organization are going to do are they going to get the benefits of a strong organization or are thinking is suffer because the organization can’t do it? You can’t advance mission as well. It should. Yeah, i mean, you’re you’re calling it on the fly. I would say two weeks notice for an executive director. Departing is is a crisis even four weeks notice? Yeah, in many cases you’re you’re absolutely right. Okay, i’m right about something. Thank you. You’ve got something right today. All right. So what do we what do we do, teo, to plan for that? Just well, you know, i think the first thing the board has to do is start toe think about the contingencies. So what do we do and then actually want one thought that comes to mind that, uh, that you raised tony is should we get our executive director on an employment contract? If they are and that will employee do we want to lock it in? And they’re sort of pros and cons with that? If you’ve got, like, not the best executive director in the world, terminating somebody on a contract becomes much, much more difficult than if they were at will employees. So, you know, you kind of have to weigh the pros and cons, but, you know, revisiting your current executives director and the employment relationship is maybe step one. Oh, and suddenly he was thinking about, well, do you have a really strong job description that really reflects with the board wants of the executive director and on the basis on which the board is reviewing the executives performance on dh? Maybe the sort of initial question to ask in that area? Is do you actually review the executive director and that the board you absolutely should? You and i have talked about that the board’s is not part of their fiduciary duty to evaluate the performance of the the ceo? Yeah, i think so. I think it’s a core part of meeting their fiduciary duties that really, you know, as a board, if you meet once a month or once every couple of months or whatever what’s more important, you know, then really selecting the individual who’s going to lead the organization in advancing its mission and its values and implementing your plans and policies and making sure the organization complies with the law. Taking your leader is probably the most important task that the board has, because the board is delegating management to the to that leader. Yeah, absolutely. And i think it’s often forgot naralo overlooked that individual board members inherently have no power and no authority to do anything think so, it’s only as a group. When they meet collectively, can they take aboard action? So for individuals to exercise, you know, powers on behalf of the organization that has to be delegated to them and typically the person responsible for everything is that ceo or the executive director. We’re gonna go out for a break, gene. And when we come back, you now keep talking about the process. The what goes into this process, including the job offer. So everybody stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email. Tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact, i guess, directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz gotta send live listener love, let’s. Start in japan with tokyo kiss are a zoo and nagoya. Konnichiwa, seoul, south korea, seoul. Some someone south korea, always checking in love that on your haserot. Moscow, russia, mexico city, mexico, ireland. We can’t see your city ireland’s being masked for some reason, but we know you’re there. Welcome, welcome, ireland, and also taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, nobody from china, that’s, funny, nobody from china today, coming back to the u s, we got cummings, georgia, in ashburn, virginia. Live listener love to you in georgia and virginia. Okay, gene. So now we’ve let’s say, we’ve learned that our exec is departing and let’s not make it a crisis situation, though let’s say this person is generous enough to give six months notice. So, you know, let’s, not make it a crisis. Where what’s our what’s, our what’s, our first step as the board. Terrific. And i’ll just add, even if you don’t, if you know your executive is not leaving any time soon and i think you should go ahead and start this process anyway. Oh, yeah, clearly we should be. We should have a succession plan in place. Yes, we’ve talked right? Okay, yeah. So i think the first thing to do is get a committee together so it might include boardmember some outside experts outside with the board. If you don’t have that internal expertise and just getting different perspectives out there, some of your other stakeholders might be really important in what, you know what you want to look for in an executive in the future. So get that committee together first, get the buy-in of the current executive director. So unless it’s going to be, you know, a succession plan for a termination? Yeah, we’re really unhappy with executive director, right? Let’s not get into that. Yeah, let’s get their buy-in and have them help in the process. Especially with your scenario where they’re giving a six months notice and everything is amicable. Let’s, you know, see? Shoot, who knows better about the organization than the executive director that’s in place right now. So i’m getting there buy-in and help contribution. I think it is pivotal. Does this committee have to be comprised of hr experts? Why? I think having a least one or two hr experts is going to be really helpful. But i i think it’s more than that. It’s, you need program people who understand what the executive you know roll is no respect to advancing the program. You need the fund-raising people to know well, what is the going to do with respect to fund-raising perhaps the seeds, the lead fundraiser and some small organizations as well. So we need thio gather a bunch of different people with different perspectives and expertise to figure this out. And i think that’s a very good point to include a t least a programme expert. Now, could this committee include employees, or does it have to be sure you can absolutely on dh? You know, you might even have have have different subcommittees in there. So eventually this is going to go up to the board. But as the committee’s doing the legwork for determining what? You need an executive director and putting together a job description, and and, you know, perhaps, but the performance evaluation is going to be based on for the future executive director all those things can get, you know, we’d be aided by the contribution from several areas. Okay, okay, what are your thoughts on hiring a recruiter vs vs? Not well, i you know, i think it depends upon what the organization shins resource is our and the organization should understand the marketplace it’s in a swell hiring two great executive director is the competitive thing. So, you know, if you’ve got a lot of resources and you’re able to you want to allocate an appropriate amount of resource is tio what i think again is making one of your most important decisions of the board? I don’t think you want to do this on the cheap at all. I’m just the same way i didn’t want you to do it on the fly or or or in a rushed matter-ness think you want to invest in this, and if you don’t have great expertise inside about on things about, like, doing job interviews and doing background checks on the sex thing, you know how to differentiate between one candidate and another when they all look good on paper and when they’re maybe professional interviewees, but they’re not there, maybe not great leaders. How do you figure all those things that if you don’t know, that dahna an executive search firm could be a great help, and it can just open up the marketplace of potential candidates as well, especially if they, you know, decide to do a regional or even a national search. It really can ramp up who who you’re going to see in front of you and the quality of the candidates that the selection comedian the board eventually will have to choose from. Okay, does the committee now come up with a couple of candidates to bring to the board, or is it better for the committee to choose one and bring that person to the board? How does this work? You know, i think the committee should be tasked with bringing several candidates up on sometimes it may be a multi tiered process so they might go through two rounds of screening, for example, and and at least let the board see who’s made the first cut. And then and then, you know, present to the board, the final, perhaps two or three candidates. If, if you’ve got, you know, the ones that are very close and in quality in terms of what the board want in an executive director, i think that’s pivotal. I wanted to add one. Nothing, though. I’ve seen this done before, tony and i don’t really like it and that’s when. If a search committee or research consultant comes up and says, you know, to the board, tell me what you want in the good executive director everybody, you know, spend five minutes, write it down and send it to me or take it home and email it to me oh, and tell me what you want and then the search consultant collates the the the answers and then that’s, you know, the decision about that’s what’s going to be the qualities you’re going to look for. I think this needs a lot of discussion and deliberation and the value of that, you know, that that thought process and that really difficult thinking and getting all those generative questions out there is going to produce a much better product in terms of what you’re looking for and who you can get and how you’re going to do it. Yeah, you you send this tio use email and, you know, it’s going to get the typical attention that an e mail gets, like a minute or something. You know, it’s it’s going to get short shrift. And your point is that this is critical. It’s it’s, the leader of your organization, you want do you want the contributions of the committee to be done in, like a minute off the top of their head just so they can get the email out of their inbox? Yeah, definitely. We could talk about board meetings and another show, but put this at the front of the meeting and spend, you know, seventy five percent of your time talking about this. This is really, really important, okay, you have some thoughts about compensation, and we just have a couple minutes left. So let’s let’s say we’ve the board has well, i can’t jump there yet. Who should make the final call among these candidates? Is it the board? Yeah, i think it should be the board that makes the final approval, but they they’re going to put a lot of weight based on what? The executive of the search committee, you know, tell them who they’re you know, the recommendation is okay, and i think that toe add one more thing to it is make sure the organization looks good to clean up your paperwork and your programming and even your facilities. Just make sure you’re going to be attractive to the candidate as well. Because if you want to attract the best, you better be looking your best as well. Okay, okay. And the with respect to compensation now, we’ve talked about this before. What? What’s excessive. And there should be calms and things like that, right? So it’s really important to make sure that the board or unauthorized board committee one that composed just board members, approved the compensation before it’s offered to the candidate. Even if you don’t know that they’re going accepted or not, once he offers out there that compensation package, total compensation should have been approved by the board. And you want to do it with using the rebuttable presumption of reasonable procedures unless you know its far below market value. Okay, if you get payed accessibly or if you pay somebody excessively, that could be penalty taxes for everybody. Including the board. Should be careful of that. We have talked about that rebuttable presumption before. Yeah. All right, then. We have to leave that there. I look forward to talking to you next week on the two hundredth great. Congratulations again. And i look forward to it as well. Thank you, gene. Gene takagi, managing attorney of neo. The non-profit and exempt organizations law group, his blog’s non-profit law block dot com and on twitter he is at g tak. Some updates, of course, too live listener love because you were listening to live listener love from july eleventh, twenty fourteen. So that’s a that’s. A little bit at a date, more people have joined us, including wilmington, north carolina, media, pennsylvania. Pottstown, pennsylvania, and spring lake, new jersey. I spent a lot of time very close to spring lake in belmar because my other grandmother, not the grandmother who worked at i t that was my mom’s mom. But my dad’s mom and dad had a home in belmar and i used to go there weeks on end. My parents were thrilled to get rid of me when i was four, five, six, seven, eight years old. Oh, my gosh. Lots of weekends in belmar. And i know that spring lake is a very, very pretty town. Also, uh, what’s the big hotel there where i’ve been for dinner, the breakers. Is that the breakers? That beautiful hotel? 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Nonprofit Radio for May 22, 2015: Linkage, Ability And Interest & Crowdfunding Legal Tips

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Marie SempleLinkage, Ability And Interests

Maria Semple

Introducing the LAI principle for rating potential donors. Maria Semple walks you through it. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder.




Gene Takagi: Crowdfunding Legal Tips

Gene TakagiGene Takagi is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group. He raises your consciousness about legal issues around the popular crowdfunding sites.



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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a new affiliate to welcome k y r s eighty eight point one and ninety two point three fm in medical lake spokane, washington i’m looking forward to helping your non-profits welcome kyi rs thank you so, so much for being with non-profit radio and being our newest affiliate, k y our s oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with ngom nail blast iq limb, fadden apathy. If you gave me the bad news that you missed today’s show linkage ability and interest introducing the high principle for reading potential donors re a simple walks us through it she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder and crowdfunding legal tips jean takagi is our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group he raises your consciousness about legal issues around the popular crowd funding sites and he walks us through those on tony’s take two non-profit radio on the road and third sector responsive by opportunity collaboration, the working meeting on poverty alleviation that will ruin you for every other conference, i’m very glad that maria samples back with me she’s, the prospect finder, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com, and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now exclamation mark she’s our diet of dirt cheap and free ideas you can follow her on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria! Hey there, tony, how are you? I’m doing terrific, lee. Well, how are you today? Just find a little bit of allergies going on, but other than that, you know, i think everybody suffering, though, right? Well, i suppose i see you have a lot of allergens in new jersey. You know this here seems to be particularly bad. I have not been bad in past years, but ah, i don’t know. What’s going on this here against the it must have all exploded at once. Okay? I’m allergic to some people in new jersey. Ilsen listen, my family that’s what you know or not you mostly my family. Um all right, my mom and dad don’t listen, so they wouldn’t know that i just said that there, but they’re big fans. Of the show, but they don’t they don’t. Listen, um, this l a i linkage ability and interest. We’re using this for tracking and rating are potential donors. Is that right? Yeah. That’s, right. You know, i thought it would be an interesting topic today. I was i was recently asked to speak about this on another person’s webinar. And i was thinking that it was something you and i had not covered in the past, um and it’s certainly something that is freon dirt cheap, right? Because it’s being done by dafs board volunteers and, you know, khun really involve a lot of different people in this process and it’s probably, you know, a pretty important part of the overall fund-raising process when you think about it because, you know, we only have so many hours in a day in a week, in a month in a year, um, so we really need to be able to focus on where allocate our time and our resource is right. So human resource is funding, etcetera? Um, so, you know, we’re trying to really get down to is answering that most basic question and fund-raising is really how to qualify people. Right? So hopefully, you know, at the end of the next few minutes together we’ll we’ll come up with a process for your listeners that people can start to implement. Okay? All right. So, uh, what’s think our first part linkage? What is it? What i mean by linkage? Linkage to what? Right? So linkage to the organization. So how how is this person linked to your organization? Who is that? Ah, that individual that might stand between you and that prospect. So, you know, it could be that you have a boardmember who has access to this individual, maybe maybe it’s a staff member or ah, some other volunteer with the organization, so they’re really kind of like, in lincoln terminology, they’re really just two degrees separated from you. Um, and and in some cases, somebody might be more than two degrees separated on dh, then that’s going to really kind of affect how well linked they are to your organization already and how much they they already know about you, right? I have to i have to quibble with you about something now linked in did not create that two degrees of separation. That correct that comes from kevin bacon that’s, right? I don’t i don’t want the social networks taking over our r ah, story traditions, that is a kevin bacon, you know, story, whatever you’re called that is not attributed to linked in dot com, alright, right know it’s? Not absolutely, but of course, lincoln can help you in this process when you’re trying to determine linkage, right? So if you’re just trying to figure out you have a known individual, maybe they’ve come teo ah gala or something, and you’re trying to figure out, well, who can really help us, you know, cultivate and potentially solicit this individual? We want to engage them a little further in in our cause? Um, and so, you know, certainly lincoln is one of the tools that you might be able to use, i think, you know, why not use that technology that’s there to help determine how many degrees they’re separated from you? I’m not objecting, teo, speaking to that in terms of linkage and proximity to the organization. So geography, i think, in my opinion, could potentially play a knopper tune ity here into linkage. So if you really a small non-profit and you serve a very small geographic area um, you know, is this prospect living in that geographic area, or do they live somewhere else in your state? But maybe they have an interest in funding your type of cause. So, you know, i do think that that geography can play a role in this as well. Okay, okay. Um also the e-giving history, right? In terms of our their their closeness to the organization, another way of measuring that is how often and at what level have they been giving and how regularly, absolutely and, you know, we’ve all heard of the stories in the press, right of people who passed away, they leave a lot of money to an organisation, they were on ly donors that say very modest levels, but they were consistent, right? So they zsystems long time donors and and, you know, i’m preaching to the choir was talking to you about this, tony, but, you know, certainly passed e-giving history is even if even if the gift amounts have not been very high, i really do think you have to take into account that longevity how long they’ve been with you? Yes, on dh that’s particularly true looking for potential donors in planned e-giving but yeah, that that committed person who’s been giving and, you know, maybe you’ve heard me, you probably have because we’ve we’ve done seven hours together say that, you know, even if it’s ten dollars, a year or ten dollars, a couple of times a year, but they’ve been doing it for for a long, long time, like eight out of the past ten years or twelve or fifteen out of the past twenty years i mean, that’s ah, that’s a lot that’s a that’s, a really committed person, even at low, low level. So you want to consider them as potential? Maybe not for what you might consider a major gift, but certainly for potential volunteering planned gift or maybe moving them up the the e-giving in the giving ladder, you know, that consistency is really important, irrespective of the size of the gift. Yeah, alright, thanks, maria. So you know, i would agree with you, right? You’re you’re on safe ground. Yeah. Course. Plus, i i feel bad. I feel bad about my rant about the kevin bacon phenomenon, so i don’t want it. But you know me well enough that you know there’s no harm done. No, i’m intended no harm intended. Maybe harm done, but i didn’t intend any, but i don’t think so. What’s ah, what’s ability all about after linkage. So the a for ability. So really it’s it’s, really? The ability rating is it’s based on their ability of what they can give and not what we think they will give. And so that could be two completely different numbers, right? You might be talking to your board members and your board will say, you know, well, andre, go in either direction. Right? So the conversation might be something like, um, you know, where we really think that this person that we, the board, think this person is certainly capable of contributing to our annual campaign or our capital campaign at a level of, you know, five thousand dollars and, you know, maybe your research reveals that this person, you know, has never given anywhere near that amount. Maybe all of the donations use i’ve ever been able to find out what they give to other organizations in your community. Maybe two hundred dollars, and below. So certainly, you know, you wanted to raid it in that you know appropriately in terms of their ratings for the ability, but it could also be in the other direction so the conversation could be g we think this person capable of donating five thousand dollars and your research reveals that in fact there, you know, they made in the past in the recent past a twenty five thousand dollars, um, commitment to another organization. So knowing that you’re potentially leaving money on the table by not asking for a higher amount. Yes. Okay. Okay. Let’s, uh, let’s go out for our break a little early and if there’s more to say about ability, of course we will. And then we’ll we’ll cover interest, and then we got to put this all together. What the heck do we do with all this info that we’ve got? Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there? A better way there is. Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. The small midsize shops that’s who were always about i got live listener love, cartersville, georgia. Marquette, michigan, san francisco, california, duncanville, texas cool and carmel, indiana special belated birthday wishes out the carmel, indiana live listener loved to each of you there’s others out there don’t fret if you’re still listening, there’s others out there and more live listener love coming. And of course, we’ve got our podcast pleasantries for everybody listening some other time on some other device unknown to may be many of us, but pleasantries to the ten thousand podcast listeners, and we got more. We got more love coming out, so don’t worry about that affiliate affections. All right, maria, um, anything more that we want to say about ability, that the person’s ability to make a gift, how much we think they can they’re capable of giving now, i think i’ll stay a little bit more about it in the next few minutes after we cover interest, because i want to go over some general levels of ability, so we’ll get into that when we get into the rating, okay, be little mysterious on me. Okay, that’s. All right. Okay, then. Let’s, let’s go to our interest. What is this about? So, really, you know, here we’re trying to understand, you know, if they could really be engaged in the organization, how interested are they? Do they have a specific area of interest, you know, are they connected to you because of a particular passion that they have or maybe there’s something that actually connects them to your program? You know, maybe you serve people with disabilities, and they have ah, family member, a close family member who is, you know, has disabilities and may or may not be using your services currently, you know, so what happens here is that, you know, way understand their interest so that we can fulfill a need that they have to make the world a better place. Um, and then, you know, they’re really going to be only too happy to invest in your mission or your services or your building campaign or, you know, whatever other major campaign you’re doing, perhaps an endowment campaign or a legacy planned gift campaign. So, you know, you’re really looking to fulfill a need that they have understand what they’re interested in and helping them fulfill their mission. So, you know, having a general idea of what they’re interested in is certainly going to come into play in your overall research right now, someone could be, you know, very closely connected under linkage and have very high ability, but maybe maybe they’re not connected. Maybe maybe they’re not well now, if they’re not, if they’re connected, there wouldn’t be uninterested. Let’s see, i guess around my point is someone could be very high in one or two of these, but quite low in another one that’s, right? Like maybe interest, maybe interest is very high ability is very high, but linkage, nobody knows them, they’re not connected to us at all, exactly. And then and then what do we do there? We’ve really got to find a path to that individual because, you know, if they have ah, hi ability than it’s pretty darn likely that you’re not the only person knocking on their door trying to get a gift. And now this can also apply for foundations and corporations to right. This is not just individual ratings or what you know, i want to apply this more. For individual ratings. But, you know, i suppose it could certainly apply for for foundations and corporations as well. So much of what i focus is on is individuals, but i think you could probably apply this very same formula to your foundation, corporations and corporations. I’m thinking, especially local businesses, local corporations. I mean, i guess it could apply for bigger ones too. But, you know, if your if your campaign is around cultivating local local business people, and then i think these things would apply equally. Yeah. Okay. All right. So we got are lei i laid out. Now what the heck we could do with this. Okay, so well, let’s talk about a typical rating system and how you would potentially callie up some points because what we’re trying to do here ultimately is trying to figure out who are our best prospects. Where should we be focusing our time? So this is a very general number that you might suffer in this rating process is going involved. Mathematics? Yes, very simple math, because, look, i’m not a math person either. All right, you’re probably more of a math person than maybe implant giving. You have to. Do division. No, i think i really think it’s just straight up addition. Alright. Additions. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Especially as long. There’s. No log. Arrhythmic found formulas or no, no, nothing like that. Okay, the total number of points that you can get is fifteen. Okay, your absolute best prospect is going to be raided. A fifteen. And this is how it breaks out. By the way, i got this off of a document that i found on a peace website. So if you just google les i principal it’s probably one of the first three hit that you’ll get on google lay our principal. Okay, but can we also get you? Teo posted as a comment on the on the facebook page. Takeaway here it’ll be up by three thirty or forty no around four o’clock eastern today. Could you do that? Sure. Thank you. Alright, so go ahead. So fifteen so linkage. So you’re going to go from a score of zero through four xero would be if there’s absolutely no record of giving and no contact with that donor that they’re rated xero for linkage. Okay, alright. So there’s? Yeah. There’s what i was talking about before somebody could be very low in something, okay, you’re xero now you said, xero four, can you do one to five? Um, well, for purposes of the download that i got from a p, it went from zero to four, so one would be if they made a pledge, but no gift, or maybe a one time or a memorial gift. Your organization. I’m just making trouble. All right? Xero will still xero before i prefer one to five, but we’ll go with yours. Okay, good. Um, two would be if they relapsed, or just an occasional donor. Your organization three would be if there are frequent donor let’s, say annually, but number four would be if there are frequent or current major gift donor-centric. The best would be five since i since i said at the outset, we have a maximum of fifteen points. We’d have to kind of stick with xero through four rating system for the purposes of this discussion anyway. Oh, so they’re not all going to be zero to four then, okay? Because correct, because that would only be twelve c i can multi actually multiplied, actually. Just multiplied three times for so you know, so give me a break. All right? All right. So go ahead. Now. Ability. We have different now. How many? How many do they break out to ability xero what? Seven. Okay. Let’s. Just seven. Okay. Ah, let’s. Just let’s. Just sample them a little bit let’s, not read all seven categories. Okay, so there will be if they’ve given you from one to twenty four hundred dollars, a four would be somewhere between fifty and nine. Ninety nine thousand dollars on day seven would be five hundred thousand and above all right. But of course you would. You would scale that to your organization if your largest if the largest gift you’ve ever gotten is one hundred fifty thousand dollars, no point in having half a million dollars on your scale. Right. So you scale, you scale your scale appropriately scale the scale. All right. I hope you haven’t from with this, because i am. I don’t know if i can’t tell if you are, but maybe it’s, maybe it’s tze pretty new to me, so i’m enjoying it. Okay, what do we do? S o that’s xero to seven for ability. You’re recommend, right? So we got four and seven. Eleven. So the next one must only go xero toe four. Yes, exactly. Xero for instruction at that time, i did subtraction. All right, go ahead. Interested xero no interest, no knowledge or very minimal knowledge. Okay. In your organization, on at the other end of the scale of four would mean that they’re actively involved in your organization. They volunteer. Or perhaps they’re aboard, or even a past boardmember right? Or maybe think about even a past honoree. So so for many organizations where an annual gala within an honoree is is somebody you know, if you haven’t honoree like that, certainly they would have had some more in depth connection to your organization. Hopefully, yes. Okay. There’s a good ones. Especially. Honoree that’s that’s one people might not have thought of, but all right, it’s it’s cool. All right, so we have totals in each of our three categories. I’m guessing we’re going to add these up, right? So then you would add them up. And as i said, you have a maximum of fifteen. So now you have some decisions to make, right? Like, what is that minimum score that your organization is going to need to have in place before you put that person into a a pipeline for one on one cultivation and solicitation? Right? Because you’re only gonna have, you know, so much staff and or so many board members committed to helping you reach out to do some of these major gift solicitation efforts. You know, you have to figure out how many prospects can we end up with that’s going to be manageable? Because if you give somebody an unmanageable number than people get overwhelmed and what’s gonna happen, they’re probably not going to do an awful lot. No, you know what i look? You know what i love about this is for small and midsize shops. This replaces what could be a very expensive wealth screening process and, you know, the compay cos teo to do that for you, and then they’ll stratify you’re prospects on dh. Then you’ll you’ll proceed from there, but this is for for smaller shops, you know, there’s time involved in doing the research here, but but if you could do that, um, it’s a way of stratify ing your prospects and then you got your you got your what was the top score again? Fifteen. You got your you got your fifteen toe, you know, maybe you’re fifteen to thirteen is your top prospects and then twelve to ten. Obviously, second tier, you know, but you stratify and then you apply resource is appropriately. Does that sound that’s unreasonable? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you mentioned well screening. And even if you had or are planning to have a wealth screening done that’s really going to help answer that that a part of ability helpyou, stratify where they could potentially be giving to you. So, you know, maybe you know about linkage to your organization. Maybe you know, about interest and maybe a wealth screening. Is what’s going to help you really flesh out what their ability is? Without, you know, doing major in depth research like i would normally dio i mean, you know, if you’ve got access to a wealth screening product, definitely see what the what the screening rating is going to be, even on that process through the product that you’re using. Okay? All right, so you’re now you were saying that i guess there’s a threshold may be below which you would not apply resource is, you know, maybe it’s i don’t know, i think it would depend organization by organization, but like, maybe it’s five or seven or something below a scorer now that my reaction to tony was maybe a five or seven for a small organization where, you know, you really have very limited manpower, both on staff and volunteer side. Um, yeah, you don’t want to discount anybody have again, you have to apply resource is smartly, exactly every potential, you know, every potential donorsearch can’t be can’t be pursued, but you know what else this does? It helps you see where you might have weaknesses with prospect, who would otherwise be strong. So in our example, you know, if ability and interests are high but linkages low and that puts the person below whatever you’re cut off is let’s say, it’s seven there i did division again, i was taking half the score. I’m like my mathematics game if there’s seven or below, but that’s, because they’re linkage is really low, but ability and interest are are doing well, then, you know, maybe now you’ve identified somebody who you want to try to get close to the organization and maybe that doesn’t take so much to do, you know, you know what i mean? Yeah, exactly. And it could be just, you know, a matter of sitting around and and having a very concentrated development committee meeting where you’re able to then try and figure out. Okay, look, these are our prospects that rated pretty highly for ability and interest if we could only determine what the linkage piece is, you know, so and that’s that would be a really good exercise to engage your board members in the fund-raising process because it’s still part of the process, right? It’s it’s just that there may be not involved in the direct ask because, sure, there are certainly a lot of board members who say i’ll do anything for you in the development process just don’t make me do the ad, so this is a a terrific way to engage them in the fund-raising process, and maybe they would get excited about, you know, getting out, doing some of those ass also interest mean ability, we’ve gotta face it ability is not much organization could do around ability, but interest, like if linkage is high ah, an ability is high, but the person just hasn’t shown a lot of interest. Maybe now maybe they’re not interested so that, you know, i have to consider that possibility. They just may not be interested, but if you’re not convinced that that’s the case, you know, maybe there’s some program or something that you can use as a connection and use your linkage, their relationship to try to get that person more interested in your work because they they rated low in that in that part, right, that that would be a great use of a cultivation event, for example, san, is that pool of people i’m seeing this as a way not to just stratify people, but also identify where weaknesses are with with potential donors and where you might apply. Some resource is to get them rated hyre in your l a i system? Absolutely. All right, we got another minute or so. Is that right, sam got? Yeah, just another minute or so, maria, you wantto leave us with something around l a i well, you know, good research is really what enables matching the prospects with e-giving opportunities, right again, as i said, so you’re fulfilling a need that they have to make the world a better place. So e i think if you just sort of keep that at the forefront of everything that you’re doing using the lazy eye principle, um, and always making sure that everything that you’re doing in terms of your communications, any engagement that you have with people, make it his donor-centric a possible it’s, not about you the organization. Okay, ultimately, yes, it is. But when you’re talking with people it’s, it’s trying to find that point of engagement that’s really going to get them excited and motivated and really want them to make an investment in your cause. Maria simple, the prospect finder dot com and at marie a simple thank you very much. Maria semple. Great. Thanks a lot. Always a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Hope you don’t mind that i had some fun with the l a i i don’t think so. You don’t take that stuff personal. Tony, take two and crowdfunding legal tips coming up first opportunity collaboration it’s a week long unconference in x top of mexico in october, around poverty alleviation, it’s structured but it’s, unstructured it’s structured with lots of unstructured time. So you, khun may connections and get to know the people who can help you with your work. There’s over three hundred people there you meet over meals. Drink. You mean in the ocean i had i had meetings with two women who became guests of the show we met in the ocean. It was nina chanpreet core and lena srivastava. They were on after i met them in the ocean. Well, we met on land, but then we planned our meeting for in the ocean. Um it’s ah, no power points, no keynotes. Every session is in a circle very collaborative. And i think you’re getting a sense of how it’s, not like other conference, is much better. I loved it last year and i’m going again this year in october opportunity collaboration, dot net non-profit radio is going west. We headed to phoenix actually leave tomorrow. Phoenix, l a san francisco, and in portland if you’re in any of those areas or between l a and san francisco, because i’ll be driving, then ah let’s, try to meet up my itinerary and video are at tony martignetti dot com third sector today. That’s ah, site run by amy davina. She has lots of contributors, including marie, a sample i was going to ask maria simple about that i’m going to see if she’s defecting the third certain sector today i doubt it, but she was on. Was it contributed to third sector today? Um, they have tips, strategy’s, good ideas for non-profits they are at third sector today dot com and they are at third sector today on twitter, but the third is the number three, of course that’s thea arabic number three not the roman numeral three don’t do ii rd do at arabic number three rd sector today on twitter use the arabic number that’s tony’s take two for friday, twenty second of may twenty first show of this year and now i’m very glad. That gene takagi is with me he’s, the managing editor of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits the popular non-profit lob log, dot com and on g tack on twitter. He is gi tak, which is much easier than third sector because there’s no arabic numbers to explain whether used the arabic or the roman. Aggie tak, welcome back durney great to be back. Thank you, and i’m looking forward to seeing you on my west coast trip in ten days or so. Absolutely, yeah, we’re going to sit down that’ll be a pleasure. Um, you’re concerned about our brand in our name and there’s, a legal issues you want people to be aware of around the very popular crowd funding sites, right? And i’m actually picking up off your conversation with aimee semple ward of and ten last week last night. Yes, you are. Ah, and you know amy and you discuss sort of the differences between an individual raising funds for a charitable purpose, like for the victims of of the earthquakes in nepal and a charity actually raising funds, and amy was pointing out how individuals through go fund me had actually raised almost double. What a big charity half for that. And so i just wanted to work off that a little bit about about saying, well, when people give a contribution to an individual, even if it’s for charitable purposes, there is no charitable deduction for that gift. Where if they make the donation to a charity, that’s using a crowd funding site named this’s done properly, they can get a deduction for the gift of doom, or little little intricacies involved. But that’s a huge difference. Okay, wait now, if we give to an individual’s crowd funding campaign. But as amy and i were talking about there’s, there’s, there’s pretty simple ways of getting the money directly to the charity so that the individual doesn’t doesn’t have to pass it on and and then so if we so if the person has that set up, and then we get an acknowledgement from the charity, can’t we get a can we get a charitable income tax deduction that way? Yeah, that would be where an individual is authorised by the charity to represent the charity and set up the crowd funding site. But much of crowdfunding is done by individuals who are just doing it for charitable purposes, and amy mentioned example of somebody saying, well, you know, i have friends who are on the site in the paul, and if we get them the money, they can help victims immediately, directly themselves, and it doesn’t have to go through any bureaucracy, all right? Okay, well, that’s not using a charity and they’re not going to get a receipt from a charity for that type of donation. There was a fire in san francisco. I believe it was last month and a ninja vigil wanted to raise funds. Really? Charitably inclined, well intended on. And what he did was he raised one hundred fifty thousand, which he had no idea he was going to raise that much. I think he was planning to raise a few thousand to help some of the victims of that fire. He raised one hundred fifty thousand dollars. And, of course, if you give it to an individual, that the individual has no power to say that you gave it to a five, twenty three organization, and therefore you get no deduction. Okay, okay, i see. I see the distinction. Yes, all right. We also need to be aware of who is raising money under our name. Yeah, absolutely. So if charities are involved in an individual says to you, well, i’d like to raise money for your project, and i want to use a crowd funding site. The game has got that problem about, well, whether the charity is actually the named recipient on the crowdfunding site for the donations or where the individual is, and the individual’s own account is collecting the money, and then the individual man transferred that money to the charity again, you have the problem of the donor getting no receipt from the charity because the donation the check wasn’t actually to the charity was, too the crowdfunding site sort of processor that’s going to the individual and not to the charity it all unless that set up separately so that that the charity is the recipient and the individuals is basically just the agent, whether an employee or a volunteer that set it up for the charity that the donor has got to really beware of that, and of course, donors have to be where if they ever give two individuals because maybe doesn’t go to the victims of the earthquake in nepal are the victims of the fire in san francisco. Maybe itjust goes into somebody’s pocket, and you don’t really know how, because that may never get reported that’s true and and on the charity side, it seems like it would be its worth is investigating to see whether your name is being used by people that you haven’t authorized. Yeah, but how can we do that? That’s a great point, i think the easiest way to do it is just to google the charity’s name once a while, and you might even google it with the term crowdfunding just to check to see if anybody is started. A crowdfunding campaign with the name of your charity, but you’re actually not seeing any of those funds, and sometimes when they have checks, go out to the acronym of your charity. It’s very easy to set up before profit business with the same acronym and have all the funds go into that account. So fraud is a possibility, like when when you’re giving crowdfunding sites. So you want a cz a donor again? You want to be really careful about making sure that any donation that you make through a crowd funding site is actually going to the chair. I never thought of that setting up. See, i’m not a savvy thinker like these criminals are, and frankly, i never thought of incorporating a business that has the same initials as ah, as a charity as a big time charity and then and then collecting checks. Yeah, it’s actually a good tip for internal controls of the own organization because any volunteer or employee that handles cheques could also do the same thing with acronyms. So be very careful about that in your internal control you mentioned doing searches, but, you know, even severe way is and i i think every organization should do this is have alerts set for your name, whether it’s google alerts now, some time ago, maria and i talked about how google alerts were not really being not very sophisticated, and we weren’t even sure they were still supported. But there are other alert it’s companies that are free, they’ll give you a free like mention dot net is one that i use for my name and also for the hashtag non-profit radio and they give you a couple for free. Then. After that, you have to pay. But i think it’s, very smart. And then i have other alerts for my company and the show name and everything. I think it’s very smart to have alerts set for your organization name so that you you find out when it pops up real, you know, real time or near real time buy-in blog’s or on sites or, you know, wherever i think that’s fantastic advice in the press. Yeah, probably somebody might write about you in the press. Yeah, so all right, but from a risk management perspective, too. All right, gene pool. Uh, and, you know, beyond even the deductibility donation issue, if somebody’s using your name out there and harming it in any way your, you know, the loss of the value of your brand and the trust of the community is far more can be far more important than any loss of deduction by don’t. Yes, for sure, we’ve talked about that reputation. Um, what if we’re thinking about a cz, an organization engaging on a crowd funding site? We’re thinking about having a campaign, maybe it’s around an event, maybe it’s around a program or a building whatever it is. What? What? What tips? You have fur going about this dahna great question. And there there are so many crowdfunding sites out there. There are few that people are are well aware of who you are. Many people are well aware of, like kickstarter and indeed go go, go fund me or just a few of those, but there are literally thousands of crowd funding sites out there now, and you want to make sure that you’re connected. If you do connect with a crowd funding site that you’re connected with a very good one with very strong reputation with the clear understanding of what the terms are of the agreement and what type of seas they may be collecting, they also may be regulated if they’re providing fund-raising solicitation service gettinto, you’re getting into the whole morass now with the charity registrations, charity solicitation, registration morass yeah, which you’re an expert at, you know, if you know if there’s soliciting for you, if they’re controlling or receiving any money on behalf of your charity, and not just threw a payment processor like paypal, but they’re actually controlling it in one of their account or even if they’re advising you as to what to put in the content of your fund-raising solicitations, then they may be regulated as a commercial or professional fundraiser, or is fund-raising council basically anybody that’s soliciting or providing advice to the charity on solicitations and that’s, a regulated, regulated area that they’re gonna have to think about registering not only in the state in which they might be located, but in any state in which they’re engaging in felicitations without spending that could be all states so that’s something to be very careful now that okay, let’s, let’s, be careful now. That would be a burden if they were considered. And of course, the laws vary state by state. This is why it’s such a huge morass. I was going to use an expletive, but we’re on too many terrestrial affiliates. I can’t do that but it’s a morass. Okay, so because the different state laws but if a crowd funding site operator was considered a commercial now i lost it a fund-raising fund-raising counsel or you are a professional solicitor. Then you’re saying that that site would have to register, right? Yeah. That’s like would have to register. And the charity actually has some responsibility as well to make sure that they’re not engaging in a contract with a commercial fund-raising professional fundraiser fund-raising solicitor fund-raising counsel that is not registered, right? Well, then there’s disclose yes, the organization has the obligation in a lot of states to disclose those relationships and also teo disclose the start of any solicitation campaign using one of those individuals or companies, right? Right, whether it’s, crowdfunding or not, but let’s try to stick with crowdfunding, alright, i don’t wanna lose anybody here, okay, that for that morass, i think that’s as deep as we can go, but you have a but let’s give you a shout out. You have an article on this not that we’re wrapping up or anything, but on this solicitation and solicitation registration issue and on the issue that that the crowdfunding site operators could be considered fund-raising council, et cetera. Right? You have some blood post on that right at non-profit law block dot com? Yeah, definitely. If you just do a search on the block sight on crowdfunding, you’ll see a number of articles. Okay, some of them discussed that issue. Okay. Excellent. Right. But let’s weigh. Just have a minute and a half, by the way, before our break. Let’s, let’s, look at some other tips. I mean, if you’re if you’re going out to a crowd funding, you’re evaluating crowd funding sites. What what other things should you be looking about? Well, i think you want to look at how the system works, though some crowd funding sites are actually set up, his donor advised funds and that’s where their charities themselves and if they are charity themselves, what they’re going to do is they’re going to take the donation, which is going to be made in their name, and they’re going to take the advice of the donor to re grant it to your charity, but they actually don’t have the legal obligation to re granted to your charity. In that case, the only time when that’s really at risk if your charity happens to be in trouble, basically with the irs and spider onesie, tree status is in dispute or the attorney general is thing you’re doing something unlawful, then the crowdfunding site that’s a donor buy-in fund may decide that it’s not going to re granted to your charity and still re granted toe another organization with the same charitable purpose. So that’s. One thing to think about is what type of entity, whether the charitable entity or for-profit, ended the year crowdfunding site. Alright, let’s, we’ve got to go out for our break. We got some more tips that gene will share and got you some more live listener love, so stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m peter shankman, author of zombie loyalists, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Time to send affiliate affections to all our affiliates around the country, especially jet out for k y our s. But all the affiliates love the am fm stations that are part of the non-profit radio. I don’t know, empire is that? Is that overstating it is ah, network. Maybe network is more appropriate. Empire maybe empire in june. By then it’ll be an empire. Let’s uh, let’s do more live listen love new bern, north carolina and tuscaloosa, alabama live listener love out to you and let’s go abroad. We have ah couple in japan, okazaki. And also super imahara, japan. Konnichiwa, brahma, sweden is with us. Welcome brahma, sweden. I don’t i don’t know how to say in your language, what’s the closest i can get our union. Yes, germany. Guten dog. But i know you don’t speak german in sweden and cerini i i know that but that’s that’s about the closest i can come. But i do know that seoul, south korea, multiple, as always on io haserot italy is with us, but i can’t see the city. Italy. I don’t know what you’re always masked. I don’t know you, roma. Vanessa. Uh, not really, gioia. Tauro, one of the chinchilla terra cities manure ola real majority i’ve been to all of them i wish i knew where you were, but live listen love to italy and also moving up north to ontario, canada sudbury live listen, love there also sorry jean had too little world tour. I hope you don’t mind that i love hearing where all the listeners in-kind that’s cool, is it? Yes around world. Unbelievable. Brahma, sweden i love that. Um, okay, more tips for evaluating on dh comparing potential crowd funding sites that we might use? Sure, i mean, one of the things that you have to look at is whether the crowdfunding site has rules about making a charitable contributions through their sight or not. So kickstarter doesn’t allow for general unsupportive solicitation and sorry, i’m restricted solicitations you have to solicit for a particular project starter, okay, so if you solicit for particular project now, you’re raising just restricted funds and not unrestricted funds. So you’ve got to make sure that you’re counting systems and that your your infrastructure is is ready to support that. You also have to figure out whether you’re issuing the proper type of receipt. To donors. So in kickstarter, again, if you’re raising for a particular project and tip what is very typical for kick starters, you raise funds and you give something to the donor or the or the contributor to the campaign in return for that a right, too, the first production of a book or were some some benefit there? So now you’ve got a quid pro quo contribution potentially if it’s not just the low cost of minimus item and you’ve got an issue, a proper receipt to that donor that says, well, here’s, your gift of one hundred dollars, but you received something of value of twenty five dollars, in return. Therefore, duck double portion of that payment is seventy five dollars. Something like that has got to be given to the donor, and if the crowdfunding site isn’t able to facilitate the charity to be ableto offer those proper quid pro quo disclosure statements, then you’ve got a problem. You just gotta make sure that your crowd funding sites are where the charity laws well, okay, there’s also a potential fees the side to make money sometimes off the off the money that’s raised so there’s feet potential and then also donors in formacion some of the sights will not share the donor information with you, ray, which is, which is a problem in fees. Yes, you do want to compare fees to make sure that they’re not exorbitant in relation to the type of campaign that you want to conduct. And it also may indicate whether the crowdfunding site operators operating with in-kind of the ethical parameters that charity’s think that they operate. And so for example, if a crowd funding site and i don’t believe any of the major ones do this. But if a crowd funding site is saying, we want to take a portion a percentage of your donations that let’s say exceeds ten percent or twenty percent, that that may really be a problem, and you may actually run into other regulated areas if you start to take a exorbitant fees where you’re actually sharing donations with a for-profit entity oh my yeah, i could see trouble there. Ok, ok, go ahead. Sorry, but typical a credit card processing fees three and a half percent on goff often there’s kind of ah, crowdfunding site c to provide that platform for you and then the credit card processing the to taking those donations. So, you know, anywhere, uh, you know, three to four to five percent for each of those things are a total of up to ten percent. It’s probably pretty common amongst the big crowd funding site operators. Okay, okay, privacy issues, right? There’s the issue we just mentioned are they sharing the donor information with you but privacy information? What are they doing with the data? People’s people’s data? Yeah, absolutely. And that’s another issue about whether they’re regulated, professional or not. So without diving into that too deep, if they’re really just providing the platform for you, they have to disclose your donors. And if they’re not willing to disclose your donors, you have a problem because that that information you’re entitled to and in many cases, you may have to report that if it’s a large contribution to the i r s as well so that’s that’s just ah, something that you need. I think when a charity uses a crowd funding site in terms of protecting the privacy of the donors, you do absolutely want to take a look at the crowd funding site operators privacy policy tto find out whether the donors that are contributing there are are going to be now subject to a bunch of others similar campaigns and have their emails splendid with solicitation or whether they’re going to give up other, you know, information that might create both legal or just a donor relation problems for your charity. We just have about a minute and a half left one minute actually left. Just today in the chronicle of philanthropy, i saw the minnesota attorney general suing a company called savers, and they’re they’re a brick and mortar store, and they give part of their part of the revenue or from items they sell goes to charity. But the charity’s aren’t being sued, but they’re being named and he was, like disabled american veterans, absolute epilepsy foundation, lupus foundation. So, you know, this is all related to your point that reputation could be out there even if you’re not doing something wrong. Yeah, and why you talked about monitoring how your organization is being used? Because sometimes and they don’t know about this particular case, but sometimes a commercial code venture, which is a little bit of a jargon the term but any for-profit that uses the charity’s name to say, well, if you buy from us will give a portion of the proceeds to this charity may be done without your knowing it as a charity, not knowing that they’re using your name and they should obviously be be letting you know that that’s happening. But you you do have a responsibility as a charity to make sure that, you know, when somebody’s conducting a campaign like that, we have two reportedly on your behalf. Jane, we have to leave it there. I thank you very much. I look forward to seeing you in ten days or so. Jean takagi at g tack on twitter and the non-profit lob log dot com thank you very much, gene. Thanks, tony. See, you bet next week to ntcdinosaur views emerging tech trends and now get buy-in if you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com where else would you go? Opportunity collaboration with world convenes for poverty alleviation. It’s outstanding and it’ll ruin you for every other conference opportunity collaboration dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff sound. Liebowitz is on the board as the line producer shows. Social media is by susan chavez, susan chavez, dot com and our music is by scott stein. I love when he affirms what i just said. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything people don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine am or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.