Tag Archives: 18NTC

Nonprofit Radio for November 8, 2019: Buy-In Bitches & Process Blocking Your Progress?

I love our sponsors!

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Cougar Mountain Software: Denali Fund is their complete accounting solution, made for nonprofits. Claim your free 60-day trial.

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Carie Lewis Carlson & Lara Koch: Buy-In Bitches
I gave that title to Carie Lewis Carlson and Lara Koch as they explained how to get your boss to listen to you; to get your boss’s buy-in when you get it—and they don’t. They’re savvy, they’re straightforward and they shared tons of strategies. They’re bitchin’. Carrie is from CLC Consulting and Lara is at Smithsonian Institutions. (Originally aired 11/9/18)

 

Stephanie Zasyatkina: Process Blocking Your Progress?
Stephanie Zasyatkina wants you to pay attention to your org’s workflow. Identifying and overcoming pain points and inefficiencies will put your methods in line with your mission. She’s with InReach Solutions. (Also from 11/9/18.)

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Cougar Mountain Software logo
View Full Transcript
Transcript for 465_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20191108.mp3

Processed on: 2019-11-09T00:40:31.482Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2019…11…465_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20191108.mp3.144362.json
Path to text: transcripts/2019/11/465_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20191108.txt

Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’ve come down with an applies Moses If you ticked me off with the idea that you missed today’s show buy-in bitches, I gave that title to carry Louis Carlson and Lara Koch as they explained how to get your boss to listen to you to get your boss’s buy-in when you get it and they don’t They’re savvy, they’re straightforward, and they shared tons of strategies. They’re pitching carries from CLC Consulting and Lara is at Smithsonian Institution’s. This originally aired on November 9th 2018 and Process Blocking Your Progress. Stephanie xero dahna wants you to pay attention to your organization’s workflow. Identifying and overcoming pain points and inefficiencies will put your methods in line with your mission. She’s within reach solutions. That’s also from November 9 last year, Tony said to I’m Looking for Innovators were sponsored by Wagner C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com Bye Cook a Mountain software Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m, a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial. And by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here’s the buy-in bitches. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 18 NTC. It’s a non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in New Orleans, Louisiana. All of our ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network For Good, Easy to use dahna Management and fund-raising software for non-profits. My guests are carry Louis Carlson Carlson. My voice cracked on knuckles. She’s the owner of CLC Consulting and Lara Koch, associate director of online fund-raising at Smithsonian Institution. Welcome, ladies. Hi, Tony. You have you both. I’m doing well. Thank you for asking. Thanks for having people Have you done your session already? Have mastered. Downside. Yes. It’s a fun from here on out. Exactly. More alcohol. Your session topic is real. Talk How? I got my leadership team toe. Listen to me, all right? Buy-in? Yes. Okay. Okay. From your session description, you had a quote. I get it. It’s my boss. That doesn’t exactly If that’s you talking, this session is for you. Okay, Larry, let’s start with you. Why do we need this topic? This cop, it came out of a 10 10 an NTC that Carrie and I were at two years ago, the one in San Jose. There was a session on the last day that turned into basically a big therapy session about the work we do and how hard it is and the things that no one really talks about. You remember our number of radio? Was that 16? I don’t unfortunately interesting that you don’t remember the topic. I don’t remember what came out of it. What the tangent was exactly that took over the over the room and there was one quote and I wish I knew who to attribute it to from that session that where someone said culture, each strategy for breakfast and and it really stuck with us. And this, uh, came out over and over about the things that we struggle with. And, you know, executive buy-in is something that comes up in almost every session you’re in, but it’s it’s a mystery. It’s feels like, Oh, just get the executive body and everything would be okay. But how? You know, how is it possible and I feel like Carrie and I are living proof that it it is possible. It’s a lot of hard work. And it’s, you know, there are strategies that we’ve both employed to make things happen. Okay, Carrie, you want to add something to the introductory remarks? Sure. Eso like Blair said, I mean, every single time we speaking unconference together how to get your boss Thio let you do the things you want to. D’oh! You’ve covered this topic multiple times. Yeah, Yeah. Even if the session doesn’t start out with that, it ends. It ends there. Yeah, yeah, and it’s and you know, most people are sitting in there. They’re listening all these great ideas. They can’t wait to go back and implement them, But they’ve got to get the OK, the budget, the time, whatever it is, and they don’t know how to do it. And so that’s why we wanted to talk about this. And like Claire said, it’s something that, um, people don’t want to talk about because it could sound like complaining or, you know, but we tried to give people actual strategies that we have used to be able to get the buy-in to do a lot of the great things we’ve been able to do together. Okay, so you ladies are the buy-in mavens. We try where buy-in buy-in matrons not think of a good alliteration to go with buy-in buy-in. Your brother’s bad. Okay? I feel like we could use the word, but I’m not sure we can say it. I love it so And 10 19 we’ll be back for the Tony. You’re setting us up. Please do it for neo-sage back. We’re coming back. I don’t regret it. Okay. Good thinking. Okay, okay. We got tactics. You got strategies we get. All right, So the problem is way feel so passionately about something, but we cannot. We just can’t convince the boss. Is that it? Is it always the sea level? Or it might even be our immediate Totally. Because, you know, they’re getting that pressure from the executives. You know, they’re the ones often in more direct contact with them. And so when you bring an idea to them, they’re thought goes there having the same thought. I’m gonna have to tell my boss how to accomplish this, how to get this done. And often, you know that immediate negativity or that immediate reactive? No. First here, and people have trouble asking for what they needed. Just it’s so hard to overcome that initial that initial. No, wait, you hardly even heard anything. I I hardly even made my case yet, and it’s already a note and then try to overcome that. It’s very, very hard and because, uh, because non-profits tend to be such a hierarchy and there’s so much emotion and passion in the work, we d’oh money. People hear that. No, and they back off, They’re done. You’re making a point. Well, I also want to say like one of the things that I was able to show is that I was able to get that full on buy-in relationship, that trust all of that with my immediate boss when I was at HSUS and he was really a on advocate and a, you know, backed me up on a lot of my ideas that were able to sell to the executives which were much harder. And I admitted this in session. I never fully got that buy-in and goal agreement and all those things with our executive suite in the 11 years I was there it was just there. There’s different priorities. Different, you know, generations. I was going to say that, but no, it’s true. I think generations, generational shifts in the workplace non-profits are so unprepared for this and and it’s and it is hurting them now because they don’t know, like, our generation doesn’t know how to relate to our C level executives who have been there for 20 years, and they have different, different way of looking at things, different priorities. And it causes this this clash. Okay, All right, let’s let’s get into some of our tactics. Great tactics, strategies. We could use those interchangeably or you. I think so, Yeah. Okay, so, yeah, let’s start the number one thing. And you know, this came up on every slide that we did was getting in being relentless about being in people’s faces and having a stick. Basically, every time you’re in a meeting, you have you repeating the same stats and you’re asking the same things over and consistency in your own messenger. Yes, exactly. I’m not giving up right when you hear. No, that was one thing I think that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It’s like my boss says, No, I’m not gonna challenge them. Oh, but you should, because you have good ideas and you need to advocate for them. And you are the ones in the trenches. You’re the ones doing the work. You’re the ones in, you know, conferences like this you’re seeing what your what your colleagues are doing in the space. And you want to apply those things and that No, without a no but or no end. And I think that’s where you know, Carrie and I got the idea of basically going in really prepared, you know, anticipating questions and push back into anticipating the no, um, and coming up with strategies to see no say, Here’s how we’re going to do it. Here’s what we’re gonna do If we fail here, is gonna do it if we’re going to succeed. And then if you hear that, no. Is it, you know? Okay. Can I just try it once and we’ll see how it goes, you know? Can we test it because the data will out? I told the group like I love one. Tests fail. I want to be wrong because then I can let it go. I can say Okay, I thought it would work. It didn’t. I’m gonna let it go. And that’s why you know, But at least we got to try. It’s time for a break. Wedding. You’re CPS. Does your accountant return your calls and e mails? Do they keep to their deadlines? Do you like them? Are they nice people toe work with? Are they keeping mistakes to a minimum? If these aren’t all yeses, then maybe it’s time to look for a replacement. You know, a partner at Wagner cps euh doom. But on the show many times. Gonna be coming back early next year. You start at wagner cps dot com, check them out, and then ring him up. Give him a call. Talk to eat. See if Wagner can help you. Weather cps dot com Now back to buy-in bitches. And how do you feel with your respect your relationship with your boss? If you advocated for something and it failed Oh, I can talk about that. Please. Uh, this happens a lot, and it’s so important to be comfortable with then and accepting and and saying that this it’s fine that it failed, but here’s what we learned and We’ll do this differently next time. Last giving Tuesday right before I left. But I want to focus on your relationship with your boss. Right? You pushed and let’s say there was an initial. No. And then taking your advice, you challenged it. You gotta buy-in for a test. It failed, but you were the advocate for the You would advocate for the failure. Yeah. How does that how do you feel about the impingement on your relationship with your boss? How do you deal with your boss after that? That’s what I want to get. Well, it depends like that. That’s kind of where the early work of developing the relationship and the trust and all of that with your boss and your executives or whoever the decision maker is is so important. Because because I had a good relationship with my boss and I had spent years on goal agreement and trust and brainstorming and all of these these things that connected us, he is of the mind set of. Okay, well, here are all the great ideas you’ve had an executed one that didn’t work. It’s bound to happen. And I think that that over simplifies it but that that homework of developing that relationship with your boss ahead of time, Yes. And building on those small, easy wins, if that’s what you need to lay that groundwork, but and taking ownership of of, of your failures. You know, Carrie has a great example that she was gonna mention about giving Tuesday where she was convinced something is gonna work. They put into practice. It did fail, and Carrie took ownership. She said I thought this would work. It didn’t. Here’s what we learned here instead of getting defensive and you know it’s OK s O. I don’t exactly This is Yuri. This is your permission, right? I’m a gullible. Let’s leave it there. All right, All right. Move on. Yeah. So I came up with the idea of giving away little portable dog bowls. If you got your donation in ahead of time for giving Tuesday, we found from years past that that some people do want to get their gifts in early, which I find strange. But, you know, they have their reasons, and the data showed that. So I said, where were you with the duck boat? What kind of organization wear dog bowls with the Humane Society. Yeah. So, naturally, I was like this. I was really excited about it. Uh, well, they gave away maybe 100 of them. There are still 3000 of them in someone’s cubine hsus. And, um, I you know, I was like, guys. I thought this was gonna work, and it didn’t Don’t do it next year, right? And they’re not going to, but we did it. And that’s not the reason you’re no longer. I hope not. No e-giving Tuesday debacle. But I know those bulls are still sit here, and And we were, Yeah, you somehow. Yeah. Um, you know, and we were both honest in our session that, you know, we had those winds. We had those failures. But in the end, both of us did leave we both with it that the main society together, both of us did leave because in the end, you know, we made some progress, but, you know, it wasn’t enough. And those battles with our executives did wear us down eventually. And the first question that somebody asked at the end of this session was, How do you deal with all of this work and all this emotional toll that this obviously takes on someone to be constantly fighting for your ideas in your staff and all of that, Likelier said. We we both ended up leaving for this reason because you’ve got to know when you can’t do anymore, right? You know, And that’s the thing again, we’re all here for causes. We’re all here because we’re passionate people. You know, our jobs are so emotional, full of so much emotional labor, which I think makes word non-profit work really interesting. Um, and you know that you care right? And that is, you know, like I said, that’s where all of our sessions, especially when we present together, tend to end up because, you know, we’re proud of what we’ve accomplished. We’ve had some incredible winds, some incredible successes. But you know that work is constant. And because non-profit online and digital marketing and fund-raising changes every single day, it is not something like a digital direct mail where it’s pretty consistent. It’s pretty, you know, the nothing really changes their Facebook works one day based on what’s going on right now, who knows what’s gonna happen for Facebook tomorrow? Platforms to change. All right, Yeah, let’s go into more more strategies. You got you got one. Well, I touched on this, but one of the biggest kind of strategies for me was getting that visibility. I was relentless about getting into staff meetings and executive meetings and being that person that they they recognize so that when I came knocking on the door asking for something, they were like, Well, you know, Kerry has good ideas and she is smart and well respected or whatever. So that, you know, I told the audience, like If you’re one of those people that wants to work from home four days a week, you’re gonna have trouble selling your ideas because you’ve got to be around. And the executives need thio. No, you And with that comes trust and build a repertoire, and all of that’s interesting. My last conversation was about virtual employees and having a virtual organization. So you feel like in this realm, virtual employees are at a disadvantage if they are in leadership roles where they’re they’re selling ideas and managing staff and look like I flexibility. It was the number one reason why I stayed so long where I was. I’m a Mom, I I want to be able to do things on my own time. But if if I was not there pushing for what I wanted advocating for my staff, them knowing who I was because that’s how our management was. It was very management By walking around like you. You know, you have Thio be seen there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s nothing where that generational shift really comes into play, Maybe we’ll all be remote employees, you know, 15 years from now. But right now in the non-profit space, where again that hyre kiis so deeply grooved in, you know it’s being visible. And you know the point that the two women were just in the last interview majors. It really depends on organizational culture. Even that’s what this is all about. That even Trump’s age. You know, if the organization has a culture that empowers virtual employees, then then they may not have. The sheriff thinks that you’re talking about Carrie. Exactly. You’re right. It’s organizational culture. Yeah. Okay, let’s get aboard more strategies for challenging your boss. Well, you suggested Maybe it’s a no end. No, but we could test. That covers sort of the challenge of overcoming the know whether the techniques you should talk about data because you’re the data queen. Yeah. I mean, it all goes back to data, and I think a point, you know, having that data having those stats at the tip of your tongue. You know, stats that you’re repeating all the time. And, you know, getting execs love numbers very often. They don’t love the same numbers that we love. You know, they’re very focused on different numbers. So, eh, it’s focused on using numbers that mean something to them. Of course, a lot of those our budget numbers and revenue and opportunity costs. Um, Carey is done a lot of work where, you know, for redesigning the website, for example, when we were able to work with the vendor that’s redesigning that website and identify this is the money we’re leaving on the table right now. We’re having an old website, right that that those stats make sense to our executives. Even if vanity metrics, which breaks both mining carries hard, defend any social metrics. But if you can weave those in with the data that also matters is relevant Exactly, you know it is that you train them over. They will care about that spoonful of sugar that makes the medicine go down. You have 12,000 followers. Okay, We’ve that in exactly? Yes. Yes. You know, we, um example that leaves them, give them some of what they want. It’s like capture their attention. You know what? You’re the You’re the data expert in the organization. You know what? What? What’s Germaine? Yes. So give him a little of what they want more of what they need. And percentages? Yes, and percentage. You know, exactly. Because for example, Smithsonian redesigned their website last year and I was able to get a donation button on the website, which is a big win in the 1st 6 weeks of that donation button B On the sight, we saw 6000% increase in donations. Those numbers were super tiny, but 6000% wrenching casually to my boss in the hallway made me look like a superstar. And then they could repeat that elsewhere. But it’s it’s being, you know, unexamined. Well, one of our favorite examples was what we consider our magnum opus at the main society was our first day of giving on day of giving came as a directive and says, You know, Oh, we see university’s doing days of giving everywhere Just just do one Ah, and it has to be in restricted. We love unrestricted fund-raising. But we knew a day of giving out of nowhere in the middle of what is our biggest low month around spring March was going to be a hard sell. We knew we had a restricted program that, uh, you know, touched on all the things that that our constituents love. That hsus being pets, being people’s relationship with their pets, helping people in underserved communities get vet care for their pets. We put together a PowerPoint that laid everything out from start to finish, including a mixture of vanity metrics and actual Mex tricks and things like, Here’s what we do. If we fail, hears we do. If we succeed. We went in armed to the teeth, saying, OK, we’ll do this, but this is how we’re going to do it and we did, and we were end. Oh, and also that we need to go dark and everything else we’re doing so we can launch this huge campaign just mere months after our year and fund-raising campaign. And you know, we went in like an army, and we were able to get that message through because yes, it was the bitches and we did it. We did it and it was a huge success. But half a $1,000,000 yes, and repeating that in other ways, no through other campaigns has allowed us to just, you know, go in almost with an impenetrable armor to and confidence evidence. That’s a tough one for a lot of people. Talk about it more, I think, because people are afraid of being told no or that’s a bad idea or they’re just afraid of the rejection, kapin or failing on. And if you don’t have that culture of innovation and trust and all of that, that could be really intimidating. But I think after a while we start to gain gain our confidence. After we’ve we have good ideas and we implement them and they work and we want to do more s o that. But I think that’s a hard one for for a lot of people to have that confidence to go in and and say we’re going to do this or to your boss No, that’s a terrible idea. Which Yeah, and and I had we had 67 people come up to us after and tell their own individual stories of their immovable CEOs, you know, And And they, you know, they thanked us for ah, what we talked about. But still, you could see the fear in their eyes. You could and and that breaks my heart because again, these are people who want we’re doing mission based work. And we know how we can do it better because we’re doing it every single day. That’s the confidence you need to go in with you. You need to embrace that. Yeah. And say we were going to do this. Like when? When I decided that it was time to pick up the Web site redesigned at HSUS. I went to my boss and I said, I’m going to do this this year. I know the money’s there. We’re going to make this happen and I need an outside project manager. I didn’t go in and say had really like to redesign the website. What do you think you know? And that also helped him because it’s like I’m not going to that was another one of our tactics. Going with a solution, Not just a problem. And that takes a lot of the weight and a lot of the monkey off the off your boss is back. And that builds trust, too, because it’s like they’ve got this. You brought me a problem. Yeah. Yeah. And my boss used to always say that to me, Come to me with a solution, not a problem. And then that really also developed that that relationship of trust because he knew that I would handle things. Yeah. See Elsie working with Smithsonian. We’re not We’re just together. Not not yet. I will say yet hopefully in the future. But, you know, I would love that dynamo, but, you know, we we the bond that we formed working together, allowed us to kind of build that confidence off of one another. Um, you know, we both have different strengths. Um, and, uh, you know, we were able to move mountains at a place that is, um, like I said, it’s old school. It’s old school. No, it sounds like you suffered together that there’s this recognized social science concept. I learned it as a brotherhood of suffering, but it could equally apply as a sister of suffering. Prison isn’t. I don’t mean to analogize hsus prison, but prison is an example. We’ll take it. Okay, Um, I have something I want to chat with you. Uh huh. Because I know somebody very senior there. Um Oh, so, President, imagine what you’re suffering together. You that the common suffering day in, day out creates a bond. Sounds like that. Well, that was another one of our tactics, was yes. Was creating like a whole back-up napor greedy. Well, creating a like a mini culture within our department of trust and all of the things that we wish we had as a larger organization. You build them within the department and you do create this bond and use the work within your microcosm. Yes, and, you know, manage down, you know, manage, manage up. But also, manage down like you wish you were being managed down upon. Encourage people to come to ideas. Let them know it’s okay to fail. Let them know that you know you that, you know, they’re they’re they’re doing different work than we are as their manager. So they’re seeing things that we’re not seeing like something I tell my team now with the Smithsonian is you know, if I want you to come to me and say if you, you know, if if I didn’t if I my plate was clear, This is what I will be focusing on because I know this one. Don’t you wish one of our executives would have ever said anything like that tests? Because I I would give him Oh, I would roll out the scroll. It will roll down the hallway carpet. Exactly. And but I want to hear that because, you know, I’m spending so many plates all the time trying to, you know, be in this middle management role like I am, and I want to be able to that my team feels empowered to do that. And I think right now there are still ceilings that prevent that. Um, and the, uh you know, non-profits again? Have you know we intend to respect the CEOs as as being, you know, and that sea level, as you know, the end all be all right. And they’re not, you know, we were able to do in our world. And I say that this is especially true for non-profit marketing and fund-raising is that, um you know, it’s if you’re not living it, you’re not truly understanding it. And until executives see that and give you that leeway and you’re negotiating with them constantly about what you’re doing, what you know you can dio on Lee, Then do you even start to inch forward another thing I did while I was in a leadership role at HSUS. It sounds kind of silly, but I gave each one of my employees their birthday off, and that’s really cool. They get Thio, have an extra day off and whatnot. But what it’s really about is showing that I trust them enough to take a day off that they’re still going to get their work done. And that’s the kind of like an example of the kind of thing that was in our control. You would never get your birthday off, I think, as an overall level there, that’s just it’s It’s a culture of falik Alana non-profits work always on you to be seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But our employees knew that we trusted them enough that they could take a day off, and I was adamant. And the question that came at the end about how do you deal with all of this? The emotional labor that goes into it? It’s about creating that balance, being relentless about self care and work life balance like it is achievable. A lot of times we do it to ourselves because we care so much. But creating boundaries with your your team, your executives, is that that’s how you have to. That’s what you have to d’oh in order to keep doing off this world. Also, this idea. Please hold your don’t lose that thought. Think this idea of doing as much as you can within your within what you do have, within your purpose exactly what you can for the people. You do have authority over medicating for your staff. That’s exactly what I was going to say is. Is being relentless and going back to that repetition a badge of honor that I wear is I was in a in a meeting recently with a strategic planning meeting with a lot of different people. Of course, the organization many, many of them hyre level for me, and at one point someone stopped me and said, We know how you feel about email collection. Lara and I was like, Great, I’m glad you do. It’s because I’ve been saying it nonstop. So even if you’re annoyed with me for saying it every time you’re finally listening to me because you know what’s not happening at the Smithsonian email, let’s talk about that, you know? And luckily, I feel like Carrie and I are good with people, so we tend to not come off as harsh. Um, we tend to come off more, is just assertive versus aggressive. But, you know, I I never I’ve had to learn that assertiveness in my in my work-life because it didn’t come naturally to me. It’s something that I learned, and once I saw the progress I was able to make by getting in people’s faces, being super, you know, straight and blunt and repetitious and, you know, making that eye contact with them. Um, you know, it’s a skill that I’ve tried to learn, and I’ve tried to give to my team a CZ Well, because you know it, we’re all in these cruise ships on. We’re trying to make these turns all the time, and things move very, very very slow trying to avoid thinking. Yes, for this experiment is trying to avoid a bow shot. Okay, we’ll leave it there. You threw a terrific Great Thanks. I love your energy. I feel that I feel the bond between yes buy-in riches here. First they are Carrie Lewis Carlson, owner of CLC Consulting on Larra Koch, associate director online fund-raising at Smithsonian Institution We are non-profit rate week are non-profit radio covering 18 ntc on this interview sponsored by Network for Good. Easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Ladies, Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you very much for being with our coverage. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software is designed from the bottom up. Four non-profits. Simple to use phenomenal support. Can you say that about your accounting software? If using QuickBooks Quicken Turbo cash Workday zoho yet yet yet give it a test ride. Cougar Mountain has a 60 day free trial. You’ll find that on the listener landing page at Tony. Got em a slash Cougar mountain. Now time for Tony’s take two. Are you an innovator? Are you bucking conventional wisdom on tradition, perhaps tackling something differently? and showing success. That part’s important, the success part. If so, then let’s talk because you might be part of our innovators, Siri’s that, uh, I’m gonna be hosting in early 2020. If it’s not you, Do you know an innovator, innovative colleague friend, you or they get in touch with me? Um, use Tony at tony martignetti dot com, please. Or they can use. Or you use the contact page at tony martignetti dot com. I want to be innovators, people tackling things differently and succeeding at it. Doesn’t matter what the subject is. Program fund-raising Marketing Brand Identity Boardman Ege Mint If you’re an innovator and you’re successful, please get in touch and that is Tony’s. Take two. Now it’s time for process blocking your progress. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 18 90. See the non-profit Technology Conference Coming to you from New Orleans. This interview is sponsored by Network for Good, Easy to use dahna Management and fund-raising software for non-profits. My guest is Stephanie is a Sakina. She is director of In Reach Solutions, and her workshop topic is when process blocks progress. Workflow efficiency for non-profits Stephanie. Welcome to the show Thank you, Penny. What was the need for this thing? This topic. Why do we have to talk about this wire workflows in Borden? So we are, ah, small agency for, um, case management system Bird non-profits. We work in child welfare, and what we do a lot is implement the software with the agency. Right? A lot of these agencies do they struggle with understanding what they dio. It’s like you do it on a regular basis, but you don’t know certainly know how to communicate it. So when you’re putting it into, um ah, digital format into a software, we actually have to know what you’re doing in order to get the results that you’re looking for out in reports and things like that. Okay, right. And so if they can’t communicate it clearly, it’s hard to know where their pain points are, where to help them. And some people just aren’t prepared for that, especially the small agencies. They don’t have the staff on hand that have done kind of analysis of what their current processes are, or so what way we need to help non-profits do better than what they need to better understand what their processes Are they Dio? Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Want to know how What? They’re be able to communicate where they’re at to understand where they want Todo processes their workflow there. We’re talking about the stuff they do day today. Yes. Okay. Um how do we help him do this? How do we help them? For what are we looking first for the pain points or we’re just trying to understand what the flows are first. Yet trying to understand what the flows are. The pain points often come out that absolutely in that discussion. Okay, so are we mapping the process is how do we How do we identify what are workflows are? Yes. So it would be lovely. Thio Question time, boy. Something radio Make sure. Do I understand what you’re saying? Yes. Uh, yeah, I do, do we? Is that we? Do we We mapped the workflows? Absolutely. Yeah, And a lot of that comes out through a discussion of, like, what do you do? It’s not super unconference it. Oftentimes people are so familiar with what they’re doing that when When they’re talking. When I asked questions about it, they’re actually no, I can’t describe it. they’re not actually sure. Sometimes they don’t have the right people in the room to make. They’ve not getting a full picture. And so it involves a lot of people on the team, and they’re different perspectives in order to get the full picture so that we know in the software. What are we planning to do for them? Like, you know, Do we want to automate some of the pieces? What? What are we trying to do to improve? They’re coming to us for a reason of their process. Yes, so often technology is blamed for problems when really, it’s the processes around the technology and maybe even some of the people that are the difficulties. It’s not the technology. No. Well, I mean, it might be the technology I sometimes astrology is erroneously blamed. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Because they’re not really sure what the process is and where either pain points are where, maybe even where they’re successful in something. And what do they want to continue to keep when they move to the next? The next piece of software okay, Thistle relates down to efficiency, right? It’ll be more efficient, effective, right, and we don’t do that by being introspective about what, what it is we’re doing. And it’s not even that everything is completely about efficiency. Mean that it’s gonna like help with the bottom line and with staying in budget. But I think duitz does your process actually reflect Your mission is important as well. So there are definitely things where we’ve done internal processes for my organization that we’ve changed in what we’re choosing not to make videos. Let’s say to make things super efficient and not cost so much because our mission is to empower organizations and to really like, partner with them and work with them. So we’re actually work. We’d chosen to speak live, you know, with our clients, and because we feel like that’s really, really important, rather than sending them off to just support guides all the time. That makes sense, right? So it’s like you need you need both. Not only are you looking for efficiencies, which definitely is going to be a value for your organization, but does it mission this mission suddenly All right. So if we do want to identify our workflows and then pain points emerged from that what way have technology? Torto, you said. Based on discussions, how do we start to work? How do we stop the map? Are flows rate of information and work through the office. So we actually like in the workshop? What we’re gonna talk about is you have done your job. No, it’s tomorrow day. So you’re still 1 30? Still thinking about it? Yeah. Always thinking about you have already finished there. Right? Right. Right, you have? No, not yet. No, I’ve still got to get used to be good tonight. Last finales. So how do we get this started? So the way that we like to do it, we watch. There’s this really excellent Ted talks by a man named Ted. Ted, Tom would Tom Logic. And he talks about taking a really simple process so that people understand why it’s even important to due process mapping. And and, um, he does it with with toast, right? So something that we’re all fairly familiar with it. How do you make toast taking that? And so that’s what within the workshop we’re going to do is diagramming toast to get people all on the same page. We understand that were regularly building process, and then um It’s interesting, cause then every every piece of every action item that you would d’oh to move your process from Step 12 step see? Okay, you will. You can sticky note it, and when we sticky note, then we have the ability to be flexible with our process. Who’s in the room when we’re doing this? Because, listen, listeners don’t have the benefit of being at your workshop. That’s why that’s why I’m here, demanding you to another 12,000 people who move, some of whom may be here. But not all of them, obviously. So they’re not going to see your toast Diet totally work, but this is something you can take okay, way have sticky notes who belongs in the room. When we start doing this, key stakeholders are in the room so it can be executive level. But I think it’s also the people who are literally doing the work. They need to be heard and understood because there may be points of process. Nobody knows that they don’t know that they’re doing some taking information from Jessica and bringing that in, but well, how do you get that information? Well, I just call her up All right, send an email and tell her that I need the info now for these three cases, right? We have. And then later today, I’ll need some or totally informal and see season. Doesn’t know that’s going on. Exactly. Know, they don’t know. We’ve had a client recently That your name is Jessica. I don’t even know. I was pulling around in a minute, okay? It was random. I don’t think you’re just Thank you. Is that we have a client that literally walks from their office paperwork over to another office. They literally walks were like this. Amazing. Or to save 500 steps every day. You have to find another way to get those steps in for your counters, whatever, but Okay. Okay. So So in the room. Yeah, if your fitness. Yeah, Um, so in the room, we have a whiteboard, and we have post it notes that we all the stakeholders and all the people are stakeholders, people doing the work. People doing the way also have senior staff. All right, and we’re taking a process. Like what? How do we define a process? So I I like to think of it in, um, sections so don’t think of it necessarily likes top to bottom. Group it into, like, parts of the process. So make it understandable and relatable really quickly so that you can start Thio drilled down more into more complex processes because a lot of times processes are nested. Right. So, um, during a licensing process, let’s say you would. Part of it is seating background checks. Part of it is getting documentation, part of it, a signing documentation. Part of it is writing a home study and then you’re gonna, like take it up to the state. Okay, there’s lots of different processes. And before we just say, OK, we do 123 That might be a good way to go about it is just ordering what you can D’oh. I like to section it so that it’s more manageable chunks that make sense. Okay, of course. And then and then put the chunks together. Yes, well, then you’ll see the whole top to bottom right? Then you will see everything together and because it becomes very overwhelming if you look at the whole process right and we work with adoption. Foster care agency licensing is one part of that process. So it’s knowing Windows licensing Come in. What happens before what happens after? But looking at one chunk at a time so that you can organized that? Okay. And then when you’ve got okay for step one of the licensing process is we send some email to a family. Um, we then can use it. Use that on a sticky note, and talk about that is like, how is that getting done? Is that sent the email or we mailing? Why would we male versus Versace sent an email. And so you start to have discussions and probably like you said, executive level may not have any idea that actually paper males actually going out and that all the packets are in different locations or the documentation that needs to go in that pack. It might be, You know, there’s things that start to come to light that aren’t necessarily known by everybody, as as the stakeholder. Everybody who should be in the room. Okay, um then after we’ve we’ve done our map of the process. What are we? Well, you said a lot of conversations going to emerge out of this just out of the mapping exercise, right? and pain points. My voice cracked. Sorry. Like I’m 14. Bank points are going to emerge, and that’s where we can maybe applies in technology. Thio make things more efficient for us. Certainly. Yeah, or at least change the Or maybe maybe the process even shouldn’t change. But we need to understand why we’re doing it this way. Is there a good reason for doing it this way? And is there a reason for not changing? That happens sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s not that everything in your process needs to change. A lot of times you got where you are because you’re processes is working. It’s just there’s some reason that drove you to be, too to need to look at your process or like, you know, here we are at this technology conference. A lot of times it is to adopt a new technology because something doesn’t quite feel right. Um yeah, white hair. I believe I can pull this thing off your clothes. I have his white hair on my sweater. I can’t get it off because it’s so close. I can see it so close by you see a double and I kept grabbing the fake one. All right, I got it. Ah, little host. Digression. Okay, so there’s more to say about this, so I know part of your presentations will be mapping toast journey, but we don’t We’re not gonna do that here. No time for our last break. Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories all while building support for your work. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to dot CEO, We’ve got butt loads more time for process, blocking your progress. But we still have another, you know, 10. 50 miss together. So what are we gonna whatmore do? Small and midsize non-profits need to know about this. The workflow process, uh, so that they can scrutinized their own. I mean, it’s it’s important. No know, going into it it it could be a dip, a difficult discussion. It is always important to bring in all the players, right? And really, even though we on the radio aren’t doing that exercise, it is an excellent exercise too. Open up people’s minds to that we all understand how to diagram. Can we talk about it when we talk through the toast example? Totally. You know. No, I don’t think it has to be visual. Right. So this is we’re using this as an example of how to map your your own workflows process. Yes, exactly. And it’s and it’s ah, like and exercise. You can literally do this exercise with your team. So it feels kind of like, why would I do this? But it brings laughter. It brings cohesion. Um, and it also brings an understanding of Oh, we all see things from different perspectives. And when we actually talk about it and get it out in the open, we can see that and then improve our process. Because that might have been some of the problem is that you don’t actually know what other people are doing. A little skeptical that gonna bring all this out. Okay. All right. So go ahead. You the facilitator get us started. So the first part of the program are the exercise is going to be thio, actually. Diagram, toast. So with a piece of paper and you are going to draw an image of how toast goes from, you know, a piece of bread. Two toasts on, whatever it might be. So for me, I use the toaster. In other countries, they use a saute pan. Um, right at the end of the toast. Maybe you just want to eat it plain and dry. Maybe some people don’t. Maybe they put butter on it. Maybe they put jelly. I was I did this presentation in in California earlier. There was a gentleman from Australia. He puts Vegemite, right. It’s like what? What are the different people bringing? Some people look at these examples as, um, very people centric. Some people are very, very detailed. Some people keep it real simple. Well, I mean, included in this, you have to go to the go to the pantry or the refrigerator where you store your bread, right? You got to get you to get the substance for some people may not remember that step. And what’s interesting I actually just spoke with a client is very good that I thought that’s absolutely Yeah, I appreciate that. Okay, So, um, so I just spoke with a client who’s actually used the example in in her non-profit setting in the foster care agency she works with. And what she found was interesting is that she now knows kind of how people think, like, how they think about what they’re doing. And what do they need, Right? So she gave a really great example of one of the women needed. All of the resource is before I get started, I need to have the jelly Neto have the toast. They need to have, um, the plate. Right? Whatever reason Plan is a planner and that opened her eyes to how to better communicate with that person because not everybody comes in it that way. When I draw the toast, I get the plate in the middle. I also like we always joke about isn’t like I’m single, Mom. Some like doing the dishes when the toast is down. I’m doing something else because I’m gonna be super efficient. Okay, Okay. All right. So Okay, so there’s other value in this duitz. Yeah, in terms of understanding people’s work personalities. Exactly. All right. All right. What We teach us that little more. It totally. But I want value. Not just, you know, not just filler. So, um, what else? All right, So, you know, in terms of what else? What else have you learned from this? Well, so then Step two is to then take all of these action items, make the sticky notes right. Okay. And so the point of the sticky notes is our brains actually work better with work of almost taking notes. All of the action items, all of the action items. So refrigerator walked to the refrigerator, bring the knife out, get the jelly, get the bread pushed down the toaster, right. If you forget any of those steps, you have an opportunity to actually include them. You can also reorganize them. So if you find that it’s more efficient to get the plate and the jelly and the toaster and the bread and all of these resource is beforehand, you can move them from where I had them right in the middle, right up to the front. Which means that you might need pantry to store all these things, right? So, like, how can you make that part more efficient? Sometimes your eyes roll the back of your head. You know, you just when you’re thinking when you’re thinking, I thought you were having having a stroke? No, your eyes roll back. You know, I do a lot of weight. I don’t just recently started doing have been not crossing, but it’s like they’re rolling back like a stroke. How do you do that? I have no idea. It’s all white. Everything becomes white, There’s just eyelashes, and it’s probably can’t do it on do it consciously. But I’m thinking, Yeah, it’s going real time. I let it go. One person let go. But now you’re gonna call it out. Thanks. Probably nobody noticed. Well, everybody’s gonna know my eyes turn away Another 12,000 pod castles. They definitely did not notice. Okay. All right. So you have fun here non-profit radio because you’re not gonna have fun. Then why the hell by d’oh bother. I dragged my ass over here. That maybe I don’t. I always, you know, Thio, New Orleans, great city. OK, I know it is, but I wouldn’t have been here if it weren’t for ntcdinosaur you probably on a beach in North Carolina. Yeah, anyway, okay, that’s a host aggression again. Um all right, so what the Post it note stage every little step and then you can decide Reorder you can reorder and s o Tom says that the the ease with which we can re order it makes us more likely to improve the process, right? Are were more willing to improve. We’re willing to change things when it feels feasible and easy to do that. If we can’t If it feels like you know, um, my team member created a diagram on, um, some program, right. So it’s got the arrows like Power point or something, right? Like she did this. All this work to make this process look like that unless likely to go in terrible her work. But sticking notes are really easy. They’re real cheap. They’re very like budget friendly, obviously for organizations. And this toast exercise really again just allows you to be free flowing with it. Part three. Okay, let’s move on. A par three is then to take everybody’s individual sticky notes and put them together. So now you’re actually building cohesion. You’re hearing actually what other amglobal wants? You’re putting them up on the board, am tryingto rationalize them all into the same process. Exactly. But some people, some people have some steps and other people skip those steps in Italy, they might not plug in the toaster. Nothing’s gonna happen if you press that down, right? And so it’s like you can pull all the all the pieces. This is where where someone is walking, you know, the boulder from one organization to another. You realize that that you didn’t realize that was actually happening before you finally get to hear everybody’s voice. Okay, Is there a step for no? So that’s that’s the exercise. But then the thing is, is guest set for, I guess. Yes, Retract what I said. Yes, there is a Step four is to do this with your own processes, right? So to look at this really complex process, you need to organize it into smaller chunks that are more manageable, right? And then you can diagram it. You can sticky. Note it. You can work together and bring in where What? The program manager believes that the processes and then that people who might actually be doing that process and hearing like I brought up this home study or the licensing process. There are certainly program managers that are approving. They might initiate part of the process. They are, um, connecting that process with the case manager with social worker. All these people are coming together to make this process happen. There’s also external factors, like the state agency or the back where the background checks are being done, or the people who have to approve the home study. So there’s all these people at play, and it really helps to bring ah Fuller Circle because the program manager might only be connected with the case manager and a social worker. But these people are connected to the state agencies. And where does the family come involved? Right, So you’re pulling ever. You’re being able to see everybody. Okay, now, in your own organizations, if you’re not doing this kind of work, um, there may be processes that that you’re just not comfortable with. Maybe maybe even before the before you identify specific pain points. You just know that something is something is not right about the way we I don’t know, acknowledge and process donations and send acknowledgements. You know, there’s something that it takes us too long. It feels like it’s harder for us than it is for my friends and other organizations, so that might be a rationale for applying this process. Absolutely. That process applying this this exercise to that process. Okay, okay. And really, I mean, Tony, you can also mean we’re always doing process. So I love this book. Um, I might get the title a little bit wrong, but it’s like the life changing magic of cleaning tidying up, and she actually discusses process in our life. It’s just like spring cleaning every year. But she organizes, um, all of your items in your house into certain groups. Then she you take out what’s what’s not needed. You hold it up right? And so I talked about the mission is like holding it up to you. Don’t feel joy when I touched this item. If no, it’s gone. It’s no longer part of the process. So, like part of the process, I guess when you’re combining and you’re finding that cohesion with all your team members is going back and aligning with your mission and even even the mission or the mission of whatever project you’re working on, right? So if it is your donations and acknowledgments, you’re wanting to get those out. How? Making sure that that aligns with how you run your organization, the values of your organization, how you value your donor. Okay, Because a lot of times donors are multifaceted and how they work with your organizations. They’re not just offering funds to you like they might be boardmember sze. They might have been volunteers. Some of the agencies that we work with, they might have been families. So how are you touching all of these? These people who have multiple connections to your organization. Okay, Okay. And I like how you bring it back to mission also mean that mission. It’s sue and whatever, whatever this process is that your being interested. Really? Really. This is organizational introspection, right? I mean, that’s the way I see it. You’re you’re you’re you’re taking a deeper look at yourself as an organization. How do you work? Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, like I said to write. So I didn’t want to throw in that, um, that book just because it felt really good. It’s just like you would do spring cleaning annually. You’ve got You’ve got to constantly go back to this. So, um, sometimes your mission might be stale. Your, um, people aren’t feeling it. I mean, you just have a sense if you’re in the organization. So wishes it’s out of the mission is Dale. It could be there is potential for that. Right? So it may or may not. One of the things in certainly in the workshop that we’re going to talk about is actually making people also relate to the mission. So, just like the process of mapping out where your processes making it possible so that your team actually feels the mission that they relate to it. That’s not an abstract idea. If it is a top down or as you’ve added people into your organization over time, though, it could be you. Yes, you may have. Your mission may have become less relevant. Or or you may have strayed from it, diluted it or the mission itself may require evaluation. Rethinking? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, that’s a very healthy exercise. We’re gonna leave it there. Ok? All right. She is Stephanie newsjacking and she’s director of Reach Solutions. I said it right tonight. Bear close. Yes, yes. Okay. And my interview with her with Stephanie Sponsored by Network for good. Easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you so much for being with non-profit radio coverage of 18 NTC next week. What business is that of yours? If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers bruckner cps dot com But koegler mathos software Denali fundez they’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits. Tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producers Claire miree off Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scotts. Dine with Me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day. Do you run or are ready to open your own business? Hi, I’m Jeremiah Fox. I’ve been operating an opening small business for the last 25 years, and I’m the host of the new show, the entrepreneurial Web tune in every Friday at noon Eastern time. for insights and stories on the nuances of running small business right here on Fridays at noon talk radio dot N. Y c. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant, Our Awakening Humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking altum dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. Do you love? Or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history. It’s vibe. It’s field and its energy tune and live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio dahna, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network.

Nonprofit Radio for September 13, 2019: Peer-To-Per Peek & Poverty Porn

I love our sponsors!

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Cougar Mountain Software: Denali Fund is their complete accounting solution, made for nonprofits. Claim your free 60-day trial.

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Noah Barnett & Kenny Kane: Peer-To-Per Peek
Our panel from the 2018 Nonprofit Technology Conference shares an overview of community-driven fundraising. How do you plan for, inspire and activate your supporters? They’re Noah Barnett from CauseVox and Kenny Kane with Testicular Cancer Foundation. (Originally aired 7/6/18)

 

Amy Sample Ward: Poverty Porn
Amy Sample Ward returns to discuss the issues around graphic images and descriptions of poverty. How can you avoid the porn trap and white savior stereotyping, while telling compelling stories and advocating effectively? She’s our social media & technology contributor and CEO of NTEN. (Also from the 7/6/18 show)

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

Cougar Mountain Software logo
View Full Transcript
Transcript for 457_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190913.mp3 Processed on: 2019-09-14T15:44:50.067Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…09…457_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190913.mp3.362581000.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/09/457_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190913.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with in duration if you harden to me with the idea that you missed today’s show. Peer-to-peer Peak. Our panel from the non-profit Technology Conference shares an overview of community driven fund-raising. How do you plan for inspire and activate your supporters? They’re Noah Barnett from causevox and Kenny Kane with Testicular Cancer Foundation. This is from 18 and T C, originally broadcast on July 6th 2018 and Poverty, Porn. Any sample Ward returns to discuss the issues around graphic images and descriptions of poverty. How can you avoid the porn trap and white savior stereotyping while still telling compelling stories and advocating effectively? She’s our social media and technology contributor and CEO of and 10. That’s also from the July 6 2018 show on Tony’s Take Too Bad data at Consumer Reports Responsive by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By Cougar Mountain Software Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content For non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here’s peer-to-peer Peak. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 2018 non-profit Technology Conference hashtag is 18 NTC. Where the Convention Center in New Orleans, Louisiana. This interview, like all our ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by Network for Good. Easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits. My guests now are Noah Barnett and Candy Cane. Noah is head of marketing for causevox and candy cane is yo the Testicular Cancer Foundation. Gentlemen, welcome. Thanks for having us. This is great. I’m just telling, you know it’s great. Not that in 10 things. Not great. It’s exceptional. It’s exceptional. Thank you. In 10. Thank you. All right. Um, your workshop topic is community driven fund-raising. How do you peer-to-peer to cultivate dahna relationships and reach new donors? That sound familiar? Yeah, absolutely. We just wrapped up our session. We’re already done. Yeah, we’re all done. Yeah, we’re on the downswing. So this is the after party victory. Last. Both Put it. Well, um, community driven fund-raising. Let’s start with you. Let’s start close to know what’s what’s not being done. Quite right. That non-profits could you better. Yeah. So I think what’s interesting is we’ve gone through a few shifts in fund-raising. We went through this idea of there was, like, localized fund-raising back in the day, and then we went to Mass fund-raising, where we basically didn’t differentiate any of our appeals. We sent all that out, and now, today, like, I think there’s a fundamental shift where we’ve moved into what we call the connected economy, where the lines between digital and offline are starting to blur. And that requires a shift in how we approach fund-raising. And we see kind of a playbook for the connected economy is community driven fund-raising. Okay, the I like the way you you sort of set this up for us. The lines between online and the physical world and our real life are blurring. Indeed. Yeah. Okay, so we’re bringing these things together? Yes. Okay. Peer-to-peer community driven. Okay, Yeah. We’re calling it the connector economy because we’re just connected to anybody anywhere, at any time, through technology and our lives are more connected than ever. So why shouldn’t our causes b similarly, shouldn’t we be similarly connected to our cause is exactly is through our community. Exactly. Okay. Getting anything you want to add to the start up? Yeah, I would just say that. You know what? The Testicular Cancer Foundation were really big on storytelling and creating compelling stories that resonate with our audience. Not only, you know, as someone who’s been through it as a caregiver myself, but, you know, we try to put ourselves on the other end of the computer screen, or the phone would have you where these stories will compel people to act, compel people to donate, compel people that take action. Okay, let’s stay with you. Your your description says in fact, in boldface your description says that you will share with us exactly how to do this. How did so where Where should we start? We’ve been, you know, everybody sees peer-to-peer. Well, let me take a step back and I okay to synonymous eyes peer-to-peer and community fund-raising or you guys drawing a distinction between those two. Yeah, we’re definitely drawing in this station. Please educate me. Yeah. So I think what’s interesting is community driven fund-raising is what we’re calling the umbrella that lays over all the various aspects of fund-raising, where your community of supporters are actually the key driver of success in the campaigns here, it appears your war is a tactic inside of that. Larger. Exactly. And so in community driven fund-raising, there’s kind of a scale of the different types of things that qualify as that that moves from organization. Led meeting, like the organization is starting a campaign like a giving Tuesday campaign, a crowdfunding campaign, an annual campaign all the way down to supporter initiated, which could be I’m wanna raise money for cancer. And I’m choosing to do that for the Testicular Cancer Foundation. But I decided as a supporter to do that he didn’t created environment metoo do that. Organic indeed. Thank you. All right, so I’ll refrain from making those two synonymous because I’m being too narrow. I’m just choosing one method, one tactic. Okay. Um, all right. Exactly how, uh, Kenny, where Where did wish we get started? Yeah. So appealing. But I don’t know where to get going. Sure. So in this rolling in my last roll, which was a broader young adult cancer non-profit called stupid cancer, the same rules apply so you have people who are affected by cancer. Cancer was huge. Yes, you have enormous millions of kids and engaged around. Um, I know you’re probably right. Way did pretty well. Yeah, it still exists There. Still there. Still hammered away at it. He’s going to take a look. He’s one of the co founders of super cancer. Yeah, OK, so So the long story short is that my father was diagnosed at age 50 with testicular cancer, which put me on a path towards can fraud advocacy. Ah, in my early twenties and about two years ago, my friend Matt first learn who’s the founder of testicular cancer foundations and 80 wanna move from New York. Uh, lost. And I said, Sure. Ah, and I’ve taken over Testicular Cancer Foundation. Okay, But getting back to you, you know that the same rules apply where we serve people who are in a at a disadvantage spot going through cancer. You know, whether it’s a survivor, the patient, the caregiver who is helping the person caregivers often forgot. Yes, caregivers need to take care of them. So I was need to be coddled and cared for 100%. That was So what we do is we see these people go along a path of being recipients of the mission, being beneficiaries of the mission. And then they come back, you know, 23 years out. And, you know, they decide they want either run a marathon or they wanna create a cancerversary party. Cancerversary is a really big milestone where on the, you know, annual date of their diagnosis or when they finish treatment, which everyone they choose, people will give back, and typically they get back to the non-profit that help them. You know, I think it’s probably similar in all chronic health. I know what I know. An oncologist office where they have a bell, you ring the bell. Uh, your final treatment. I’ve seen a bell lifting a gun. Yeah, it’s a great milestone. Okay? And I had my own. I’m sympathetic to caregivers. I had some sense of it before this, but during the summer, this past, last year, summer and in the fall, September October, my mom was declining, and I was my mom. My dad and I were caregivers. I just watched her, and then she actually died early October of 2017. So I it became even more. I became even more aware of how you need to take care of yourself. I know it’s just one component of what testicular cancer is doing. Sure, the caregivers often think that they have to be selfless and and they can’t. You cannot give up your own life. T give another to get to another, you’ll burn out. There’s a lot of self care that goes into your caregiver. So when we talk about the community aspect of community and fund-raising, you know, and I’m so let the host Tigress. I’m sorry. Sorry about that. Sorry about Mom. Thank you. Um, about the host back to discuss. Welcome to the show cubine xero all week. So community German fund-raising kayman. Yeah. So the same rules apply. So people go through this process, they come back. And for every person who was perhaps turned away from the person going through this acute episode of, you know, not episode but a stretch of cancer treatment What Not whether somebody wanted to give them food or take them to the doctor’s appointment? The person kind of turned away. Community driven fund-raising is a great way to really activate your community of people who wanted to help you. And in the past we have created opportunities for fund raisers to convert into things like travel scholarships to a patient conference. So if you’re this arrive, er, you could fundraise within your community to raise money for a travel reimbursement. So it’s not necessarily scholarship is a little bit more democratic of a process. Scholarship can get a little tricky. So this skull, this reimbursement program that we did it stupid cancer actually allowed the the people around the person affected to help fund their way to the conference while doing ah e-giving back to charity, getting the tax benefits all that. But it was just a really nice way of recognizing what that person had been through. It’s time for a break. Wepner C P. A. Is they have a new wagon are on September 25th exempt or non exempt? Everybody in your organ has to be paid either hourly nonexempt unless they are exempt. Under the Fair Labor Standards Act, you need to classify employees correctly, and you need to document the decisions that you made around the classifications. The cover it all got a weather. CPS dot com. Quick Resource is and upcoming events now back to peer-to-peer Peak. And then so what’s the broader lesson for our listeners in small and midsize shops? Yeah, I think what’s interesting is community driven. Fund-raising is just a reframing of how we approach raising money and building awareness for the causes that were advocating for Okay, bye, basically recognizing the true value that every person in your non-profits community and as a community of supporters, whether they’re known or unknown supporters of your organization, Typically, we look at it from just a financial perspective. And so what community room, fund-raising says, is that it’s not just about the money that support Ercan give you. It’s about their influence in the time they can give you a swell and in the connected economy of the influence that a supporter has is actually more valuable than it’s ever been before. Because brands are being kind of blocked out of feeds. Whether it’s Facebook, it’s becoming really difficult for non-profits to reach any new people. And so, by turning inward and saying, How can we actually empower our supporters by inspiring, activating and rallying them? Latto actually be the fundraisers for organization. Okay, How do we get How do we activate this within our own organization? How do what we need to be thinking through? Sure, we’ll be in the team discussing. I feel like we’ve spent enough time on motivation. What are some steps? How do we get started? I’m interested. But I don’t know how to organize myself. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think community German fund-raising is just like lens on how you approach fund-raising. And so I think it’s important to have non-profit leadership buy-in but also a fund-raising team in general and communications because community fund-raising is basically saying we’re gonna inspire people in our community, becomes supporters rather than guilt them. Then we’re gonna activate those people that have true potential to become fundraisers and advocates for our cause instead of and we’re not trying to convince people to do that, we’re just activating the potential that’s already and they’re already exists exactly. And they were rallying them together. So fundraisers usually see raising money and reaching new donors as their responsibility community German fund-raising says No. It’s actually your job to be a player coach and basically see your community is a valuable asset to help you fund raise, help you grow your impact, help you reach new donors. But I’m gonna ask you again. But how do we get started? I mean, maybe isn’t identifying certain people to maybe seed the program? I understand you’re not throughout the life of the pregnancy thing. Okay? You do something, you do something. But we need some seeds. Yeah, I think what we do is all. We always advise people to understand the different stages of community German fund-raising. And so the first stage is inspiring. And so, as you look at your current fund-raising, whether it’s an event, whether it’s a male piece, how do you look at that piece and see it from a lens that you’re not trying to convince someone or guilt someone to give to your cause? We’re actually trying to inspire them and because inspiration leads to sharing and action. Okay, so, yes, we wanted to share. Exactly. And then inside your current supporters, which is the second stage, which is activation identifying key supporters that are ready to do something more. And so one of our customers world bicycle relief every time someone donates at that moment of inspiration that they’ve someone’s been inspired to support the cause. They want to provide a next step, activate them to actually be an advocate or a fundraiser for the cause. And so it’s something as simple as that by they implement this new program, and they’re just asking new donors if they want to do more okay and presenting the opportunity. And if you apply the commune German fund-raising methodology, you couldn’t find things across your current fund-raising program where you just shift your mindset to be. How can we make this more community focus rather than organization driven? It’s sort of empowering them to India. I’m just adding another. I mean, you’re talking about inspiring them that they share, and then they take action. I guess I’m calling it, empowering them and giving them well in power and giving them permission and maybe some tools to work with the backdrop is shaking video stable. It’s not gonna fall, but I would add that historically we’ve created a fund raiser. Maybe you donate $20 to yourself so that you don’t share this fund raiser with the xero balance. The same rules apply to when you’re launching a campaign. You really need the buying of trusted, uh, folks in your, you know, in your group people that you know will ah, create a buzz. And you certainly don’t want to launch it on deaf ears, right? With zero balance et cetera. You mentioned storytelling earlier. You seem to make a point of how important that is. How does that help us? I guess at the first stage that Noah was describing inspiring the community. I think I think it contextualized is and provides insight into your motivation as a fund raiser. How do we start telling these stories? I want to get into the nitty gritty here. So obviously, we’re up against the algorithm of any given social media platform, and you can do it whether it’s the ah, email or through social post, but really providing, you know, maybe a before and after photo, in my case where people are, you know, going through treatment, and they come out with a smile on their face. That’s the best case scenario and just really humanizing it. You know, we talked a lot in our session today about being human throughout the fund-raising process. I think it’s really easy to get kind of technical and robotic about it and just create opportunities for people to self serving, you know, cradle, uh, fund-raising page and then never to be heard from again. Yeah, uh, I think causevox and you know, I know using causevox We aim thio certainly create opportunities for more than that. So you actually have a relationship with the non-profit as you’re going through the fund-raising fund-raising stages and and finishing the campaign about empowering people to tell their own stories so that it’s not coming from the organization, But, um, giving them the option to create a two minute self d’oh or log on their own way actually saw this firsthand. So and 10 is a non-profit who hosts this conference, and what they did was they said, How can we raise money for scholarships so that people could come to this conference for free? Who can afford it? And one of the biggest things they did was they said, you know, we have 10 board members that have influence and ability to do this, And so let’s empower them to tell the community why ntcdinosaur turns to them and fund-raising on our behalf. And so they were able to raise over $18,000 I just saw the banner over there. And there’s, you know, 50 60 70 different donors that came together to help support that campaign. And all they did was they said, Hey, boardmember is Ur supporters were gonna activate you to tell your story on our behalf. They did videos they wrote like testimony is different content. And so they didn’t say one thing that the other again, they just activated those supporters and said, Hey, can you share your story with the community and raise money on? And they were able to do that. And there’s people at this conference because of what those board members did in the stories that they told. Yeah, excellent. Excellent. Um, so eso were starting capital. So we’re activating people that they share. And then that they take the act, take the action of of actually beginning of fund-raising fund-raising on their own as we’re okay. It’s rise where, uh, going through this process of empowering described, we describe it. Do we need to circumscribe it a little bit about her boundaries around it? For listeners, that might be a little leery of maybe the power they were transferring too much power. Yeah. No, it talked a lot about this during the session about giving, You know, the non-profit needs to give up a certain degree of control. Do you wanna talk about that? Yeah. And I think that’s why the third phase of community fund-raising is about rallying, not controlling. And so I think our default is Well, how do we control this? How do we do this? How do we do that? I think in the connected economy, all the powers with the customer. And it’s on the non-profit to realize that their supporters have more power than they think, and so they can try to control that. Or they can really say, Hey, let’s rally this. Let’s support this and help drive this forward. And so I think if you jump to taking a control position instead of how do we actually rally people in the right direction? Um, you’re gonna miss huge opportunities, Really Activate your community. And, you know, this reminds me of the fears that non-profits had around Facebook allowing people to come. It’s been going on for years on their Facebook page. I don’t know if we’re gonna allow that we should have opened comments posted. Yeah, well, circling back earlier, we were talking about you know, the storytelling aspect and in the cancer world and again in the probably the chronic illness world of non-profits. It’s a beautiful thing when you have somebody sharing their story whether we are sharing on the behalf, which is most of the time. When you see in the comments, let’s say they have a rare type of brain tumor or something like that. They’ve never met or connected with another young adult with cancer. Little on somebody who has their exact same diagnosis. Tow Watch that unfold in the comment section where now these people are gonna be able to support one another. The fact that you facilitated that on the non-profit side eyes amazing. And it’s only going to contribute to this overall strategy of activation and engagement and getting people thio really buy into your non-profit and buy into your mission. Yeah, and you shared a great example that stupid cancer had a different name before it was stupid cancer. And it was, you know, this moment when they said everyone calls us stupid cancer because that’s the tag line so let’s actually switch. So he convinced the founder of the organization to switch the name too stupid cancer. Make the name of the organ and kind of say, you know, hey, like, we’re going to give power to this community that wants to be a part of this. And that’s when they saw growth from 252,000. Like you saw hundreds of thousands dollars being raised because they just again said, Hey, we’re not going to control this. We’re not gonna you know, they would correct people like we’re not the stupid cancer guys. Where the geever the other name? Yeah, it wasn’t I’m too young for this cancer foundation. Yeah, very Slavic, very wordy. But they gave up that control and then they saw, like, the momentum in the community like flourish. And I think what was interesting is that still progressed. What their mission Ford Waas. Maybe in ways they never expected or never would have done themselves. But it’s still pushed the mission forward. And I think that’s the opportunity that non-profits small, large medium all have today. And we see it time and time again with our customers at causevox and in parallel. You don’t get to decide what’s cool. Your audiences. Same sort of thing with fund-raising storytelling. All the concept for presenting today. It’s all about the audience. Indeed. Um, what about let’s talk a little more about building this into your annual fund-raising plan? OK, OK, what? You’re the experts. I have a plan now, and I don’t feel like I’m sufficiently community driven or or or at all community community supported what I need to rethink, not just what we’ve already covered, but how did I get this in my plan? Yeah, I think what’s interesting is fundraisers have like the same playbook, and they just think, if they do more of it that there’ll be more successful results. Um, and I think that’s why the burn out rate for fundraisers is so significant in our industry is because they feel as though there’s one playbook to run, which is more events. More e mails, more male, more time alone decides that they have exhausted that playbook. A organization w move onto organization. Yeah, try again. Yeah, and I think what’s also thing is it creates this window shopping experience where you’re always looking at other non-profits and being like man, if I only had what they have I would be able to solve. And what we challenged our people that attend our session is that you really need to look at the challenges and reframe them. And so we said is instead of saying OK, I need to do more of these things. It’s saying as part of my annual fundraising campaign, whether other things like we can do and what we provide It was saying, How about we take a look at our community and see if there’s opportunities that we can inspire our community, activate them and rally them to actually help raise more money and reach new donors? That’s part of our annual can I? I would, I would add that you know, people listen this interview who were saying All right, how do I deploy this? He certainly don’t want to cannibalize anything that’s working for you. So if you raise a ton of money in queue for you know, don’t don’t suddenly pivot and say, All right, I’m gonna try to spread that out for the rest of the year and then suddenly you’re exhausted by Q for. But there’s a lot of little things you can do throughout the year, like being more human, connecting with your audience. Giving up the control is we’ve, you know, keep reiterating Ah, and just being more of a social entity, you know, that’s kind of what it comes down to is is it’s not a one way communication channel. It’s, you know, the feedback goes both ways. Yeah, and I think it’s just even seeing the potential and being able to create the opportunities where you’re actually saying, We’re asking for more things than money. So a quick story. I spent six years running growth at an international relief. Non-profit and I was overseeing growth. But that was communications in development, and so are major gift officers, obviously were hard core, like go after money, cultivate new gifts year over year. And when I told them when I oversaw them was like there’s other opportunities for these major donors to make a difference. Their influence in their time are really valuable. You know, Major donors know a lot of other major donors, and so we continually go back and say The only thing we want from you is your money. We’re only going to get a portion of their value. And so we went to them and said, Hey, you know, would you want to do something interesting by, like leveraging your major gift to run a matching gift campaign? Or do you want to do a employee engagement campaign at your non-profit? Or do you want to basically go into the business network that you’re a part of and share this opportunity? Two. Promote and inspire other people to support the cause? And what we saw is that Mme. Or that we got them to invest their influence in their time. The more money they well, how do you make those asks? You just ticked off like three things. How do you make those? So I think, in the major gift side, obviously, you know, it involves, like face-to-face conversations and having a conversation and providing examples of what other individuals but people Do you wantto do this campaign or activate matching gift? So many make those asks. You want to do your own workplace campaign? Yeah, so I think obviously, in major gifts, it’s different because you have a personalized contextual relationship with that individual, and so if you know that they’re a CEO of a company. You can have a dialogue about that and say, You know, how are you engaging your employees to give back? As a community, you obviously care and see your legacy as giving gifts into our organization. How is your company doing? And so it’s having a conversation around that I think, in the broader sense where you’re asking a broader audience to do. Fund-raising is again making sure that you’re not asking everybody and just being like, Hey, this is a new way that you can give to our information our gift to our organization rather looking for segments of your audience that are ready to do something whether that means they’re new donors, they’re volunteers, their board members. They’ve been giving monthly for 10 years, looking for signals that they have the potential to do something. And that’s why we say that second phase is about activation because that means they already have the ability to do it. You’re just activating that, and so it can’t just be this broad sweeping thing where it’s like, Hey, now you can raise money on X, Y and Z on behalf of our cause. That’s not gonna work. You just ticked off a bunch of very good. Identify IRS indeed. Uh, who who? This might be appropriate for Kenny. I want to go back to something that you said earlier. The feedback has to be both ways, not organization Thio. Everybody correct. This that involves real listening on the organizations. And it’s hard. Sometimes you don’t hear things you might not. You’re not always gonna hear things you want to hear, right? Talk about how, how an organization consort of shift culture in terms of real listening, engagement that way, I think I think you guys were just talking about some really important, which is the signals, you know, in a non-profit situation, you have a lot of people who will come to the table. And, you know, people have ideas. People have always. You do this, you should do that. And, you know, one of the things that we always say is if you don’t pay attention to mission A, you know, mission B, C and D, whatever, we’ll all fail. Um, so listening is important, you know, for us, the example of changing the name of the organization was kind of a really big undertaking when you look back at it, Um, I think that you just have to have a qualifying process, you know, kind of Ah, multiphase approach to letting feed back into the top and looking at the person who is suggesting it, Uh, kind of like I said, creating a rubric to take me back in. And you know, you have a board of directors for a reason. So if the board is providing you with information, obviously it’s probably a good thing that listen to, but also, people who were out of the core of the Apple can sometimes override the most meaningful feedback and again, trying to figure you gotta be, you gotta be ready to hear that you know, not only not only listening to your board and also where they’re coming from, what is their motivation for providing this feedback? And if I can have two things that what we did at my non-profit, it’s first and foremost, we had to convince the organization that the donors in our supporters actually mattered. So much of our head was like we’re doing great work, were, and we just need people to give us money, and so what we did was every week we had on our designated. So we got leadership buy-in where everybody in the organization wrote thank you notes to donors. And so that started to say, Hey, we’re gonna send her on this. And then we started doing what, like, surveying or net promoter score type things where we asked, Hey, you know, uh, would you recommends our organization to a friend, family or colleague? If so, why? Why do you support our organization? And we actually started using their responses in our fund-raising copy because they were telling us why they support our organization in a way that was specific, that we could actually share with others. And they also told us ideas on how we could improve. And so I think the person foremost is you have to cultivate that idea that you’re actually gonna listen because you value that person’s opinion. And second is you just have to ask. I think we asked for money all the time, but we don’t ask for what people think or why they support our organization or how could we improve this organization? How could we reach new people? We asked that question to a small segment of donors. They gave us tons of ideas that we were able to filter throughout our organization. We’re gonna leave it there, gentlemen, thank you very much. Thank you for having us. You’re not on the You’re watching the video. They’re both redheads on. And they are Noah Barnett. He’s head of marketing for causevox and Candy Cane, CEO of the Testicular Cancer Foundation and co founder of Stupid Cancer. That’s right that way. Three a curveball. And you just handled it. It’s amazing. Oh, yeah. Thank you. You get to use overviewing. Ingratiate yourself. All right, we’re out here where he’s trying to get in by the back. I’ve been listening to 20 martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 18 90 sea This interview sponsored by Network for Good. Easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software koegler cook amount in software is simple to use and the support is phenomenal. With a program like QuickBooks, you don’t have support. If you don’t get support, it’s worth nothing. That’s from Christine Christenson, owner of Broomfield Sheet metal. Okay. Granted, not a non-profit. But so what? You can’t learn from a small business. I’m sure that you can. Small business owners have, ah many of the same challenges as small and midsize non-profits, and she’s got experience with Cougar Mountain. Kruckel Mountain has a free 60 day trial for you. You get it at the listener landing page. Tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now time for Tony’s Take two bad data. Bad data at Consumer Reports. My dad and I have very similar names, although he uses an initial middle initial, I do not. And, um, that should be a clue. That’s the sufficient clue for somebody who works in data s O that it should be queuing. Consumer reports that we are not the same person. Nonetheless, when I moved, they thought it was my dad who moved. So they address his correspondents to me down in North Carolina. Not only the middle initial but last known address should have been a clue. Also because I did not live most recently with my dad. I lived in New York City. So last address. That was another clue. Um, so they did not pick it up. I’ve told them several times by reply cards and by e mails, they haven’t gotten it. Maybe this will do it. And there’s also a lesson for you. You need to pay attention to your data. The video is consumer reports. Your data is bad and that is at tony martignetti dot com. Now time for poverty. Porn with Amy Sample Ward. Now let’s bring in any sample Ward. She is our social media contributor and CEO of and 10 the non-profit Technology Network. Our most recent co authored book is social change. Anytime, everywhere about online multi-channel engagement. She’s at Amy Sample ward dot or ge And at a M E R s Ward. Welcome back, Amy. Simple word. Hi. Thank you for having me back. It’s my pleasure to have you back. This is, uh, uh, this is the Have you been back on the show since n. 10? Since ntcdinosaur Theo ntcdinosaur think this might be the first time I think it is. I’m pretty sure because I was leaving you alone because I figured, you know, there’s clean up to do and thank you’s to sand and lots of stuff. So, um and then you had a staff planning Then you have your staff planning time? Uh, yeah. So to two times a year, all of the staff? Because not everyone is here in the Portland office. Have some remote dafs. Everybody comes to Portland for a week together of planning and craft and happy hour and things like that. Wonderful. Yes, I think they call it staff planning. But planning is not all that we D’oh. Excellent. Nor should it be because you’re all together only twice a year. So you have many vulture virtual employees. So congratulations on a wonderful and fun. And I hope from your perspective, successful certainly was from mine. Uh, and T c non-profit technology conference. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I think it was a really good year. You think so too? Good. Yeah, I’m glad. I know it was fun. I know that’s without question, but we’re doing it for a little more for the just the fun purpose fundez one is up there fundez up there, but education and technology, You know they rank too, but congratulations. Thank you for being part of it again. Thank you. Uh, was my pleasure. We got a lot. We got 30 interviews for non-profit Yes. Great. No, thank you. Um Okay, so we’re talking today about poverty. Porn? You said this had come up for you in Ah, some discussions or members have been raising it. You’ve been hearing, Ah, little more chatter about this. Yeah, I think that organizations are organizations have been criticized for participating in poverty, porn for years. But I think those have often been organizations that are really, really big operating on an international scale, global scale that are maybe more vulnerable to criticism because so so many people are seeing what they’re doing. And they’re raising so much money. And, you know, with all of that kind of spotlight and revenue, I think naturally organizations, regardless of what they dio, are open to criticism of lots of different forms. Right. But now I think organizations are starting to see Yes, we’ve, you know, maybe criticized those organizations for years, but also maybe we’re a part of that. And what does that mean for us? You know, you don’t just have to be really, really large organization or making lots and lots of revenue off of a single appeal toe, have some issues with the way you’re you’re doing your work. So I think these organizations are starting to see that there. Maybe starting to ask more questions because they’re getting you know, the the digital teams who are managing that content are starting to feel like if something does happen, you know, they’re the ones that posted that photo or sent that tweet or whatever and really wanting to figure out how how to navigate. What? What’s the best way to tell this story? Onda void. Ah, potential backlash. Yeah. Um, how would you define this? Do you? Ah, I have a way. But I’m gonna hear, you know, how would you define poverty? Porn? I guess I don’t have probably an eloquent think definition. But if I was explaining poverty, porn to an organization that I think you know without knowing, whoever we’re talking to you, what their mission is poverty point is when you’re who may be taking advantage of the difference between the audience, you’re calling tau action. Most often it’s for donations and these people that you are serving in whatever way instead of maintaining the humanity of everyone involved in that situation and honoring all that all of those people have and really um, owning the story about what you do in the power of in a example, their donation versus trying to exacerbate the difference and the things that are quote unquote not had. But this group that you’re serving and focusing on that discrepancy, I think to me is, is really what it’s about. You’re not maintaining everyone’s humanity and then highlighting the service you provide your instead maybe kind of further opening a divide. And most of the, um, backlashes that have seen or, you know, examples of this on the Web are our images, but could be written and you could see right majority video. But a written description could also be, um oh, totally exploitative or, you know, yeah, the language that we use to describe communities right? Could also highlight that that gap that you’re describing Yeah, um, you know, it’s ah, it’s It’s very sensitive, you know, because we are trying to do very good work and we are motivated. And our mission statements are oh, are around help of this vulnerable population. What? Whatever it might be whatever country it might be. I mean, it’s not a lot of the lot of the images are from abroad. I mean, I see a lot of, like, South America, Central America, Africa. But it could, you know, it could be right here in the U S. To I mean, you could certainly, ah, go astray with images and written descriptions of conditions right here, right here in the U. S. Certainly certainly. Um, but, you know, so where were motivated by the right, um, in the right directions. But But we, uh you know, it may just be is easy is like, you know, consciousness raising, which is what our conversation hopefully is doing, and and certainly a lot of the conversation. You know, like, I saw things back to life 2013 or so talking about this subject s so I think a lot of it, because our motivations are, you know, I always impute good motivations to non-profits. And most people, uh, there are good, you know, it’s just raising consciousness. I mean, I think that is there are lots of tactical things that we could talk. Yeah, you’re right. It’s not just your right. Your underlying the thing that’s really gonna create change is that organizations and the individuals in those organizations actually do some really hard work. Two to figure out an address and accept and try and move forward from all the biases that they’re bringing to their work. The again, even if their motivation, their intent internally, is field pure and good to them, it could still be coming from a really kind of dangerous place that they are the savior of that community. Right? And that, in itself, isn’t is a bias. That’s gonna mean you. You cannot create content whether that, you know, photos are writing these descriptions that not coming from that place, right? So I think just doing that internal work to say, Gosh, how are we, you know, without explicitly, like deciding to do this? How are we already coming at this from not the best place, you know? And as an organization, what are the practices or policies that we have that can help us change that? I mean, you know, if we want to start at the big picture level, don’t think about tactics. Things like do every single one of your staff regularly have opportunities to interact with the community members you serve. If they don’t, they’re not in a position to speak from a place where they understand the shared humanity. They under stand that everyone both inside the organization and those being served all have strengths and weaknesses and hopes and dreams and challenges and are at a place to really, I think, talk about the work in a more productive way. So even just at that level are you creating opportunities for every single one of your staff to be a part of the community. I think I’m always surprised how many organizations where they say, Oh, no. If you work in the office, you don’t ever talk to the community. Only our programs. After that, why would you do that? You know, why would you create this wall? The silo between the staff talking about the work, the staff, deciding how the work is gonna be done and the people participating in that work that doesn’t make anything? No. And those opportunities need to be more than photo opportunities to know that there’s lots of examples, you know, it has to be meaningful. You know, there’s one of the iconic ones, I guess infamous one’s better. Better than infamous ones is, you know, eyes, Ellen Too generous in Nairobi with lots of kids around her. And, um, there’s one of cheering wearing the red nose with Liberian children around him. So what? I mean, I think it’s really smart to bring that up, eh? Because now, people, now everybody listening to our conversation, you can think of the same kind of image, but also that I think, totally the kind of thing that organizations would think to do with staff right is like, Okay, here are the folks that we serve. Here’s some of quote unquote us. Let’s take a photo together. And inevitably, these photos like the two you just suggested when you’re years ago like Ellen and Nairobi, a red in Liberia. It’s like here is this person in the center of all these other people and you are both figuratively and literally centering yourselves instead of centering your community. This is now not a photo about those people. This is a photo about you, and that is kind of the epitome of what we’re talking about. Your right is that you have come in to save them your services, you’re donations. You or whatever it is, um are literally the center of instead of this community truly getting, too to be in that place. So I think that’s a really great, like daily kind of check check and balance for yourself. When you’re when you’re looking at tweets or you’re looking at the way you describe something that you’re looking at a photo, you can just say, Is this photo centering the people that were serving? Or is this photo about us? Um and there are certainly times where a photo should be about you, but that doesn’t mean that the photo should be you surrounded by people you served. Maybe Then it’s a photo of just your staff at you know, the conference table looking on something or you know what I mean. It it’s going to be about you make it only about you and not you. In contrast to your community. Very good point about figuratively and literally making the individual the center surrounded by the community in need. Yeah, excellent. Yeah. See, this is why that’s why we have you on. Because I looked at the same pictures and I did that did not occur to me. But that’s the brilliance of of ah expert, you know, lots of flecks of expert Well, in this case, we have one expert and me but other ex other people contributing, exper having experts contribute. That’s what I mean. Okay. You think about this, You know, it’s a value of having multiple multiple opinions and and eyes on something. Very. It was very well said. Thank you for that. Um, I was thinking you buy what? I wasn’t thinking me for what I just said. Yeah, that was obviously you’re welcome. I had a defective. I wouldn’t I would probably not consider it effort, perspective, but it is an opinionated one. So, uh, you bring a lot of insight and wisdom to the show. Um, yeah. You know, another part of the problem is that these images are descriptions, You know that it’s one dimensional. You know, if I’m here or if you swoop in with your donation from the United States, that’s going to solve the problem. The child will no longer have empty hands reaching out, you know, on. And we just have a minute. But weaken. Obviously, we can keep talking beyond the break. Poverty is multidemensional mean. It includes Gover, the local community. The local community needs to be empowered. It includes, um, well, and I think thinking about those layers, we can talk more about this. Those layers of change that need to happen are are important. But also, as we continue to see the kind of donor base of America change as Boomer’s got older and millennials, you know, come into more of the majority in the world of social action that there is also your community. Your audience for this kind of message also knows there are multiple layers and maybe that immediate kind of gut reaction of Oh, my gosh, this crisis just happened. I want to respond, is there? But if you also if that’s all that you do, you may not be really seen as a sustainable organization undressing all of those layers of change. And I think that’s a huge opportunity. No, you’re seeing yourself. Yes, Thio one dimensionally. All right. Uh, time for our last break. Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories, get media attention on those stories and build support, media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. They’re at turn hyphen to dot CEO, and we’ve got butt loads more time for Amy Sample Ward and poverty. Porn? Yes, we were just saying, Yeah, it it Ah, it narrows the the viewers focus to just donate. And there’s a lot more that you can do. I mean, and, you know, if we’re talking about, um, poverty and hunger, I mean that that could reach to, you know, advocacy around, Ah, global climate change policies, which you’re never going to get from these one dimensional ideas. No, in little. I mean, I also don’t wanna got buckslip name now to our conversation up for this idea that every single tweet, every single picture, every single email appeal needs to talk people through. How do you know this action today is connected to this action in this all the way on. That’s not what we’re trying to recommend. That every single one of those has to include all of that context. But it should always include the context of what really you’re asking for. If you are asking for donations for a really immediate need, the donation is still not the actual transaction of those medical supplies. Most likely, right. So So at least framing it truly in what it is people are donating Thio. Was there an earthquake? And these donations are in part to buy medical equipment and to support the medical teams administering it. Well, that’s also a really great story. Who are these medical teams? What kind of expertise are they bringing? You know, you don’t just have to focus on transactions, because when you do, you make both the donor feel like they’re part of a band transaction and the people receiving the support her the end of a transaction. I don’t think anyone really means for that. I like, you know, back to that good intent piece intent is not impact, but also, even even in this case, I don’t think that’s really what you intend. You know it so So raise that up and don’t focus on Oh, this is just like your example before I really like that, you know, Now these hands are full, doesn’t know what happened in here, you know, and so really talkto what is happening. And at a a tactical level, you know, there’s this is opportunity for terrific content. No direct people to, you know, you and I was talking about fresh content and depth of content. You can tell the story elsewhere. So the tweet is bringing. The tweet is briefed The Facebook post, the ad, whatever is brief. But then there’s a link to you know, the back story back-up more medical in this example who these medical teams are. You have an instagram account. Well, you could do, you know, instagram stories with either, you know, actual quick video interviews, updates Facebook, live there like there’s a ton of rich content you could have when you move to trying to really own what you do and what your story is, instead of trying to focus on this idea of a really, really immediate really, really fast transaction. Because that’s not the humanity that you want to be representing anyway. Yeah, yeah. And and wrapped wrapped up in all this is you know, the idea that the important idea that the donations air not sufficient while while they’re necessary and we do need them, they’re not going to solve the problem alone. Exactly the bigger context. You know that. And I love your idea. The xero You’re not talked about this a little. Okay. Going well, just you can You can actually then shift the spotlight to some of the work that you’re doing. Like you’re saying, you know, show videos of some of the programs and some of the care that you’re actually giving you can you can shift the lens back to you as the provider. You know, when it’s all in the bigger context. It’s a part of the bigger context. Well, I think there’s two things to think about here. One is that we talked about before. Any campaign, whether it’s fund-raising campaign, our advocacy or whatever is never gonna have only one ask, of course, every you know, kind of sector best practices. You only have one ask a time. But once someone takes that action, they have made the donations they have called their senator. Whatever you need to be ready with another ask because they were just willing to do what you ask them to do. You might as well tell them that to do something else right? So instead of having you know, here’s eight different things, please do what you want. You give people one, and when they do it, you take them to the next step. Then you take them to the next step and you just keep going. And, well, from a tactical perspective, definitely think about it that way. And from a content perspective, just as you’re recommending, I love that. Get people hooked in and then have them kind of watch the whole thing play out, right? Continue to see how the work is happening on the other thing to think about, I think, is that there’s a lot to be sad out in the sector right now about how you know, there are certain changes in fund-raising that people are more connected to a topic than necessarily a single organization that they’re gonna donate to over a year over year. You know that they care more about, um, the topic and whoever is maybe doing something good on that topic is who gets their money. This is a great way to keep people actually hooked to your organization instead of floating between organizations in the same cause. Because you’re not just getting them to have a single transaction with you because it was immediate and compelling and kind of Ah, uh, fast. Wait for them to feel connected. You have then continuing to connect them to you with these with content, of course, but also with those continued actions, ways where they’re getting deeper and deeper into this and feeling like, yeah, I donated, but also high, you know, submitted, uh, short message for the medical team to provide to those children. And they’re starting to actually feel like they are a part of your work, which is the whole goal of this. Instead of feeling like, Oh, I feel relieved that I sent my $10 to that organization and I don’t even know who they were because it was just the organization I saw on Facebook, right? So really shifting. How you frame all of this is, of course, as we’re talking about today getting you out of this trap of poverty porn. But it’s also serving you to build real community with these supporters. Yeah, it’s the how many guests we’ve had on urging the relational over the transactional That’s you. You put a lot of depth into it, but you and I have talked about it and other guests as well. That’s the way to stand out, you know, as you said, that’s the way to bring people to your cause and keep the mayor. While the, um the ah, a lot of lot of, ah, activists and donors are you’re saying more mission oriented versus organization oriented. But, you know, if you can draw them into your work there, they will stay with you. It’s the relation, actually, Yeah, it’s the relationship, of course. All right. Um, you know, another. Another facet of this is that, um all you know, these regions are not monolithic. All of Central America, South America and Africa are not poor on and needy and destitute. You know, there are thriving cities. There’s beautiful, rich history, culture, toe, all of these, you know, to all the African nations and all these other parts. I’m talking about parts of the world I’m talking about. So you know, e I think you want some balance there, too. Tooley. And I think there’s argument to be made that there are can definitions that we have organizations. We as Americans. We, as white folks, can put onto what is, uh, community experiencing property or what is a geographic area that lacks access to refers is that are not going to be a shared definition by the people living in those communities. And I think That’s a really important thing to remember as organizations trying to highlight the service you are providing or the way that you’re serving that community. Is that your definition of their needs and comparatively, to you? You know how how unquote in property they are is going to feel different in their own lived experience. So finding ways where they can authentically talk about again back to it was the beginning. You know, their hopes and dreams, their challenges, their life, and the way that they benefit or appreciate the services is going to feel far truer and position your organization into their community than it is for you to say from the outside. You know, look at this community we’ve kind of defined as meeting this And here’s how we’re going to fix, you know, back to that idea that are you centering you and and the organization? Are you really centering this community? How How are you doing that? Um, recognizing that part of deciding who you know that a certain community is or is not in need is part of that we’re gonna leave it there. Any simple word? Excellent. Thank you so much for talking about Tony Anna. What the a scary topic for some, but I think it was a good conversation. I absolutely agree. And we’re not scared to be a little provocative. No, not at all. Thank you. She’s Amy Sample Ward at Amy Sample Ward dot or GE and at Amy Rs Ward. Next week I’ll be back live in the studio. I know that’s what you live for. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. CPS. Guiding YOU beyond the numbers Witness cps dot com Bye Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there Complete accounting solution made for non-profits tourney dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for the free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for your non-profit, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO Ah, creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern Time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live Life your way on talk radio dot N Y C. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more listen live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant. Our Awakening Humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. You know, do you love or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history, its vibe. It’s field and its energy tune and live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio dahna. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network.

Nonprofit Radio for November 9, 2018: Buy-In Bitches & Process Blocking Your Progress?

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Credit & debit card processing by telos. Payment processing is now passive revenue for your org.

Fundraising doesn’t have to be hard. Txt2Give makes it easy to receive donations using simple text messages.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Carie Lewis Carlson & Lara Koch: Buy-In Bitches
I gave that title to Carie Lewis Carlson and Lara Koch as they explained how to get your boss to listen to you; to get your boss’s buy-in when you get it—and they don’t. They’re savvy, they’re straightforward and they shared tons of strategies. They’re bitchin’. Carie is now with United Way and Lara is at Smithsonian Institutions. (Recorded at #18NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference.)

 

 

Stefanie Zasyatkina: Process Blocking Your Progress?
Stefanie Zasyatkina wants you to pay attention to your org’s workflow. Identifying and overcoming pain points and inefficiencies will put your methods in line with your mission. She’s with InReach Solutions. (Also recorded at #18NTC.)

 

 

 

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

View Full Transcript


Transcript for 415_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181109.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:58:19.172Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2018…11…415_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181109.mp3.279177233.json
Path to text: transcripts/2018/11/415_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181109.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of neff row calc no, sis, if you wet me down with the idea that you missed today’s show buy-in bitches. I gave that title to carry louis carlson and larry koch as they explained how to get your boss to listen to you to get your boss’s buy-in when you get it and they don’t, they’re savvy, they’re straightforward and they shared tons of strategies. They’re bitchen carriers from clc consulting on larra is at smithsonian institution’s that was recorded in eighteen ntc the non-profit technology conference and process blocking your progress stephanie’s as yak dahna wants you to pay attention to your org’s workflow identifying and overcoming pain points and inefficiencies will put your methods in line with your mission she’s with in reach solutions that’s also recorded at eighteen and tc no time for tony’s take two today these combos was so good i let them run long responded by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p weather. See piela is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com bye tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream durney dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine here are carry louis carlson and larry koch. Welcome to twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in new orleans, louisiana. All of our ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests are carry. Louis carlson carlsen, my voice cracked on calls she’s, the owner of clc consultant and larry koch, associate director of online fund-raising smithsonian institution welcome, ladies. Hi, tony. Are you have you both i’m doing well. Thank you for asking. Thanks for having people. Have you done your session already have mastered outside it’s. All fun from here on out. Exactly. More alcohol on your session topic is real talk how i got my leadership team. So listen to me. All right? Buy-in? Yes. Okay. Okay. From your session description you had a quote. I get it. It’s, my boss. That doesn’t exactly if that’s you talking. This session is for you. Okay. Uh, larry let’s, start with you. Why do we need this topic? This copy came out of on in ten. An ntc that carrie and i were at two years ago. The one in san jose. There was a session on the last day that turned into basically a big therapy session about the work we do and how hard it is. And the things that no one really talks about. Remember our non-profit radio was that sixteen? I don’t unfortunately interesting that you don’t remember the topic. I don’t remember what came out of it. What the tangent was exactly that took over the over the room. And there was one quote, and i wish i knew who to attribute to from that session that where someone said culture, each strategy for breakfast and and it was really stuck with us and this came out over and over about the things that we struggle with and, you know, executive buy-in is something that comes up in almost every session you’re in, but it’s it’s a mystery it’s feels like, oh, just get the executive by and everything would be okay, but how? You know, how is it possible? And i feel like cary and i are living proof that it is possible. It’s a lot of hard work and it’s, you know, on there are strategies that we’ve both employed to make things happen, okay? Carrie, you want to add something to the introductory remarks? Sure, s o like blair said, i mean, every single time we speaking unconference together how to get your boss tio let you do the things you want to do, you’ve covered this topic multiple times. Yeah, yeah, even if the session doesn’t start out with that it and it ends there. Yeah, yeah, and it’s and, you know, most people are sitting in there, they’re listening all these great ideas, they can’t wait to go back and implement them, but they’ve got to get the okay, the budget, the time, whatever it is, and they don’t know how to do it. And so that’s. Why? We wanted to talk about this and like larry said it’s, something that people don’t want to talk about because it could sound like complaining or you know, but we tried to give people actual strategies that we have used to be able to get the buy-in to do a lot of the great things we’ve been able to do together. Okay, so you ladies are the buy-in maven. We try buy-in buy-in matrons know not think of a good alliteration to go with buy-in buy-in your brother’s bad? Okay, i feel like we could use a word, but i’m not sure we can say it on neo-sage radio buy-in okay, that’s perfect that’s what? Love it so and ten nineteen we’ll be back with the hashtag for the session. Yeah, tony, you are setting us up. Please do your coming back. We’re having back-up fund-raising no radio. Okay, good thinking. Okay, okay. We got tactics. Got strategies we get. All right. So the problem is, you know, way feel so passionately about something, but we cannot. We just can’t convince the boss. Is that it? Is it always the sea level? Or it might even just be our immediate? Totally because, you know, they’re getting that pressure shevawn the executives, you know, they’re the ones often in more direct contact with them. And so when you bring an idea to them their thought goes there, having the same thought is i’m going to have to tell my boss how to accomplish this, how to get this done and often, you know that immediate negativity or that immediate reactive no. First here. And people have trouble asking for what they need is just it’s so hard to overcome that initial that initial. No, you no. You hardly even heard anything i heard even made my case yet and it’s already, you know, and then try to overcome that it’s very, very hard and because because non-profits tend to be, you know, such a hierarchy and there’s so much emotion and passion in the work we dio what many people here that know and they back off, they’re done. Carrie, you’re making a point that i threw up. Well, i also want to say, like, one of the things that i was able to show was that i was able to get that full on buy-in relationship that trust all of that with my immediate boss when i was at hsus and he was really a advocate and, you know, backed me up on a lot of my ideas that were able to sell to the executives, which were much harder, and i admitted this in session. I never fully got that buy-in and goal agreement and all those things with our executive suite in the eleven years i was there, it was just there there different priorities different, you know, generation’s, i was going to say that, but yeah, no, it’s true, i think generations way generational shifts in the workplace non-profits are so unprepared for this and and it’s, and it is hurting them now because they don’t know, like our generation doesn’t know how to relate to our sea level executives who have been there for twenty years, and they have different different way of looking at things different priorities, and it causes this this clash. Okay? All right. Let’s, let’s get into some of our tactics. Great tactics, strategies we could use those interchangeably or, you know, i think so. Yeah, i think so. Yeah. Larry let’s start where the number one thing. And, you know, this came up on every slide that we did was getting in being relentless about being in people’s faces and having a stick basically, every time you’re in. A meeting you have, you repeating the same stats and you’re asking the same things over and over only consistency in your own messenger. Yes, exactly. And i’m not giving up right when you hear? No, that was one thing. I think that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It’s, like my boss says, no, i’m not going to challenge them. Oh, but you should because you have good ideas and you need to advocate for them and you are the ones in the trenches, you’re the ones doing the work, you’re the ones in, you know, conferences like this, you’re seeing what your what your colleagues are doing in the space and you want to apply those things and that no, without a no but or no end and i think that’s where you know, karen, i got the idea of basically going in really prepared, you know, anticipating questions and push back into anticipating the no on dh coming up of strategies. Teo say here’s, how i hear we’re going to do it, here’s, what we’re going to do if we fail here is going to do if we’re going to succeed, and then if you hear that no, is it? You know? Okay. Can i just try it once and we see how it goes. You know, can we test it? Because the data will out. I told the group like, i love one test fail. I want to be wrong because then i can let it go. I can say okay, i thought it would work it didn’t. I’m going to let it go and that’s. Why? You know, but at least we got to try it’s. Time for a break. Pursuing their e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. Have you got in this thing yet? For going to sake? Get it, get it. They take all the secrets from the fastest growing startups that, you know, we can all name off the top of our heads, and they apply those lessons methods to your non-profit it’s free it’s on the listener landing page. You know where the listener landing pages you don’t need me to tell you, but i will. It’s a tony dot m a slash pursuant with a capital p for please. And i suppose that capital p could also be for pursuing now back to carry on. Marah. Then how do you feel with your? With respect to your relationship with your boss? If you advocated for something and it failed. Oh, i can talk about that. Please. This happens a lot and it’s so important to be comfortable with it and accepting and saying that this it’s fine, that it failed, but here’s what we learned and we’ll do this differently next time. Last giving tuesday, right before i left. But i want to focus on your relationship with your boss, right? You pushed and let’s say there was an initial no. And then taking your advice, you challenged it. You gotta buy in for a test. It failed. But you were the advocate for the you would advocate for the failure. Yeah. How does that? How do you feel about the impingement on your relationship with your boss? How do you deal with your boss after that that’s. What i want to get? Well, it depends like that that’s kind of where the early work of developing the relationship and the trust and all of that with your boss and your executives or whoever the decision maker is is so important because because i had a good relationship with my boss and i had spent years on goal agreement and trust and brainstorming and all of these these things that connected us, he is of the mindset of okay, well, here are all the great ideas you’ve had an executed one that didn’t work it’s bound to happen, and i think that that over simplifies it, but that that homework of developing that relationship with your boss ahead of time you’re belong. Yes, and building on those small, easy winds, if that’s what you need to lay that groundwork, but and taking ownership of of of your failures. You know, carrie has a great example. If he was going mention about giving tuesday where she was convinced something was going to work, they put into practice, it did fail and carrie took ownership. She said, i thought this would work. It didn’t. Here’s what we learned here instead of getting defensive and e-giving no it’s ok, s o i wonder what exactly this is your this is your thing. I don’t need permission. Right? White-collar let’s, leave it there. All right, all right. Move on. Yeah. So i came up with the idea of giving away little portable dog bowls. If you got your donation in ahead of time for giving tuesday, we found from years past that that some people do want to get their gifts in early, which i find strange, but, you know, they have their reasons. And the data showed that s o i said, where were you with the dog boat? What kind of organization wear dog bowls with the humane society? Yeah, so naturally, i was like this. I was really excited about it. Well, they gave way, maybe a hundred of them there are still three thousand of them and someone’s cubine hsus and i, you know, i was like, guys, i thought this was gonna work and it didn’t don’t do it next year, right? And they’re not going to, but we did it. And wait that’s not the reason you’re no longer my hope. Not now. E-giving tuesday debacle. No, but i know those bulls are still sit here. Someone and and we were from the organization. Yeah, yeah. Get uco somehow used, you know? And we were both honest in our session that, you know, we had those winds. We had those failures, but in the end both of us did leave we both worked at the humane society together, both of us did leave because in the end ah, you know, we made some progress, but, you know, it wasn’t enough, and those battles with our executives did wear us down eventually. And the first question that somebody asked at the end of this session was, how do you deal with all of this work and all of this emotional toll that this obviously takes on someone to be constantly fighting for your ideas in your staff and all of that likelier said, we weigh both ended up leaving for this reason because you’ve got to know when you can’t do anymore, right? You know, and that’s the thing again, we’re all here for because is we’re all here because we’re passionate people, you know, our jobs are so emotional full of so much emotional labor, which i think makes work non-profit work really interesting on dh, you know that you care, right? And that is, you know, like i said, that’s, where all of our sessions, especially when we present together, tend to end up because, you know, we’re proud of what we’ve accomplished, we’ve had some incredible winds, some incredible successes, but you know that work is constant and because non-profit online and digital marketing and fund-raising changes every single day, it is not something like a digital direct mail where it’s pretty consistent, it’s pretty, you know, the nothing really changes their facebook works one day based on what’s going on right now, who knows? What’s gonna happen for facebook tomorrow, platforms, you change. All right? Yeah. Let’s, go into more more strategies. You got you got one. Carrie. Well, i touched on this, but one of the biggest kind of strategies for me was getting that visibility. I was relentless about getting into staff meetings and executive meetings and being that person that they they recognize so that when i came knocking on the door asking for something they were like, well, you know, carrie has good ideas, and she is smart and well respected or whatever, so that, you know, i told the audience, like, if you’re one of those people that wants to work from home four days a week, you’re gonna have trouble selling your ideas because you’ve got to be around and the executives need teo. No, you and with that comes trust and build a repertoire and all of that’s interesting my last conversation with just about virtual employees and having a virtual organization. So you feel like in this realm, virtual employees are at a disadvantage if they are in leadership roles where they’re they’re selling ideas and managing staff and look like i flexibility. It was the number one reason why i stayed so long where i wass i’m a mom. I want to be able to do things on my own time. But if if i was not there pushing for what i wanted advocating for my staff, them knowing who i was because that’s, how our management was it was very management by walking around like you, you know, you have teo be seen there? Yeah was important. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s nothing where that generational shift really comes into play. Maybe we’ll all be remote employees, you know, fifteen years from now. But right now, in the non-profit space, where again, that hyre kiis so deeply grooved in, you know, it’s being visible. And you know the point that the two women were just in the last interview majors it really is depends on organizational culture, even even that’s what this is all about that even trump’s age, you know, it’s, the organization has a culture that empowers virtual employees, then then they may not have sure just be thinking about is that you’re talking about carrie exactly. You’re right. Its organizational culture. Yeah, ok, let’s, get more more strategies for challenging your boss. Well, you suggested maybe it’s a no end? No, but we could test right that’s that covers sort of challenge of overcoming the no, whether the tactics you should talk about data because you’re the data queen. Yeah, i mean, it all goes back to data and i think a point, you know, having that data having those stats at the tip of your tongue, you know, stats that you’re repeating all the time and, you know, getting execs love numbers very often, they don’t love the same numbers that we love, you know, they’re very focused on different numbers. So a it’s it’s focused on using numbers that mean something to them? Of course, a lot of those our budget numbers and revenue and opportunity costs, carrie is done a lot of work where you know for redesigning the website, for example, when we were able to work with the vendor that’s redesigning that website and identify this is the money we’re leaving on the table right now. We’re having an old website, right? That that those stats make sense to our executives, even if hannity metrics which breaks both mining, carries hard, defend any social metrics. But if you can leave those in with the data that also matters relevant is relevant. Exactly. You know, it is that you trained them over. They will care about that spoonful of sugar that makes the medicine. You know you have twelve thousand followers? No. Okay, so we have that in exactly yes. Yes. You know, we, um example that leads them. Give them some of what they want to get, like, capture their damn war. Of what? The great. Because you know what? You’re the you’re the data expert in the organization. You know what? What? What’s germaine? Yes. So give him a little of what they want. More of what they need. And percentages yes. And percentage, you know exactly. You know, because, for example, smithsonian redesigned their website last year and i was able to get a donation button on the website, which is a big win in the first six weeks of that donation, but and be on the sight we saw six thousand percent increase in donations those Numbers were super tiny, but 6 thousand percent mentioned casually to my boss in the hallway made me look like a superstar, and then they could repeat that elsewhere. But it’s it’s being, you know, unexamined well, one of our favorite examples was what we consider our magnum opus at the main society was our first day of giving on day of giving came as a directive and says, you know, we see university’s doing days of giving everywhere just just do on onda has been restricted. We love understated fund-raising but we knew a day of giving out of nowhere in the middle of what is our biggest low month around springbox arch was going to be a hard sell. We knew we had a restricted program that, you know, touched on all the things that that our constituents labbate hsus being pet speak people’s relationship with their pets, helping people in underserved communities get vet care for their pets we put together a power point that laid everything out from start to finish, including a mixture of vanity metrics and actual mex tricks on dh things like here’s what we do if we fail here’s what we do if we succeed, we went in armed to the teeth, saying, ok, we’ll do this. This is how we’re going to do it, and we did, and we were end. Oh, and also that we need to go dark in everything else we’re doing so we can launch this huge campaign just mere months after our year and fund-raising campaign and, you know, we went in like an army, and we were able to get that message through because, yes, it was the bitches and and we did it, we did it, and it was a huge success, but half a million dollars yes, and repeating that in other ways, no, through other campaigns has allowed us to just, you know, go in almost with an impenetrable armor two and confidence evidence that’s a tough one for a lot of people talk about it more. Well, i think because people are afraid of being told no or that’s a bad idea, or they’re just afraid of the rejection or eleanor failing on dh if you don’t have that culture of innovation and trust and all of that, that could be really intimidating. But i think after a while we start to gain gain our confidence after we’ve we have good ideas and we implement them and they work and we want to do more s o that but i think that’s a hard one for for a lot of people that have that confidence to go in and and say, we’re going to do this or to your boss, no that’s a terrible idea, which yeah, and i had we had six seven people come up to us after and tell their own individual stories of their immovable ceos, you know? And and they, you know, they thanked us for what we talked about, but still you could see the fear in their eyes, you could and and that breaks my heart because again, these are people who want we’re doing mission based work, and we know how we can do it better because we are doing it every single day. That’s the confidence you need to go in with you embrace that? Yeah. And say we were going to do this like when when i decided that it was time to pick up the website, redesign it. Hsus i went to my boss and i said, i’m going to do this this year. I know the money’s there. We’re going to make this happen and i need an outside project manager. I didn’t go in and say, hey, i’d really like to redesign the website. What do you think? You know? And and that also helped him because it’s like i’m not going teo, that was another one of our tactics going with a solution, not just a problem, and that takes a lot of the weight and a lot of the monkey off the off your boss’s back and that builds trust too, because it’s like they’ve got this, you brought me a problem. Yeah, yeah, and my boss used to always say that to me come to me with a solution, not a problem, and then that really also developed that that relationship of trust because he knew that i would handle things. Yeah, see elsie working with smithsonian, we’re not we’re just together. Not not yet, i will say yet. You know, hopefully in the future, but, you know, i would love that because she’s a dynamo. But, you know, we we the bond that we formed working together, allowed us to kind of build that confidence off of one another. You know, we both have different strengths. Um, and, you know, we were able to move mountains at a place that is like i said, it’s old school, it’s, old school. Now it sounds like you suffered together, that there’s, this there’s, this recognized social science concept. I learned it as a brotherhood of suffering, but it could equally apply as assistant of suffering. Prison is, and i don’t mean to analogize hsus prison, but prison is an example. I’ll take it, okay. I have something i want to chat with you. Cause i know somebody very senior there. Oh, so present. Imagine what you’re suffering together. You know that the common suffering day in, day out creates a bond. Yeah, sounds like that. Well, that was another one of our tactics was yes, was creating, like, oh, zoho back-up napor greedy while creating a like a mini culture within our department of trust and all of the things that we wish we had as a larger organization, we build them within the department and you do create this bond and work within your microcosm? Yes. And, you know, manage down, you know, manage, manage up, but also manage down like you wish you were being managed down upon encourage people to come to ideas, let them know it’s okay to fail, let them know that you know you that, you know, there they’re they’re doing different work than we are as their managers. So they’re seeing things that we’re not seeing like something i tell my team now with the smithsonian is, you know, if i want you to come to me and say, if you you know, if if i didn’t if i my plate was clear, this is what? I will be focusing on because i know this one don’t you wish one of our executives would have ever said anything like that tests because i i would give him i would roll out the scroll, it would roll down the hallway carpet exactly, and but i want to hear that because, you know, i’m spending so many plates all the time trying, teo, you know, be in this middle management role, like i am, and i want to be able teo, that my team feels empowered to do that, and i think right now, there are still ceilings that prevent that on dh the, you know non-profits again have, you know, way san tend to respect the ceo’s as as being, you know, and that sea level, as you know, the end all be all right, and they’re not, you know, we were able to do in our world, and i say that this is especially true for non-profit marketing and fund-raising is that, you know, it’s, if you’re not living it, you’re not truly understanding it and until executive see that and give you that leeway, and you’re negotiating with them constantly about what you’re doing what? You know, you can dio on lee. Then do you even start to inch forward? Another thing i did while i was in a leader shit roll at hsus. It sounds kind of silly, but i gave each one of my employees are birthday off and that’s really cool. They get teo, have an extra day off and whatnot. But what it’s really about is showing that i trust them enough to take a day off, that they’re still going to get their work done. And that’s the kind of like an example of the kind of thing that was in our control. You would never get your birthday off. I think as an overall level there that’s just it’s a culture of lika latto non-profits work always on the scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But our employees knew that we trusted them enough that they could take a day off. And i was adamant. And the question that came at the end about how do you deal with all of this? The emotional labor that goes into it. It’s about creating that balance, being relentless about self care and work. Life balance like it is achievable. A lot of times we do it to ourselves because we care so much, but creating boundaries with your your team, your executives, is that that’s how you have teo that’s, what you have to dio in order to keep doing all this work also this idea, please hold your upleaf don’t lose that thought this idea of doing as much as you can within your within what you do have within your purpose exactly as much as you can for the people you do have authority over medicating for your staff. That’s exactly what i was going to say is is being relentless and going back to that repetition, you know, a badge of honor that i wear is always in a in a meeting recently with a strategic planning meeting with a lot of different people, of course organization, many of them hyre level for me. And at one point, someone stopped me and said, we know how you feel about email collection, larry and i was like, great, i’m glad you do, it’s, because i’ve been saying it nonstop. So even if you’re annoyed with me for saying it every time you’re finally listening to me because you know, what’s not happening at the smithsonian emails let’s talk about that, you know, and luckily, i feel like carrie and i are good with people, so we tend to not come off as harsh. We tend to come off maura’s just assertive versus aggressive, but, you know, i i’ve never i’ve had to learn that assertiveness in my in my work-life because it didn’t come naturally to me, it’s something that i’ve learned, and once i saw the progress i was able to make by getting in people’s faces being super, you know, straight and blunt and repetitious and, you know, making that eye contact with them, you know, it’s a skill that i’ve i’ve tried to learn i’ve tried to give to my team a cz well, because, you know, we’re all in these cruise ships on we’re trying to make these terms all the time, and things move very, very, very slowly trying to avoid thinking yes, brothers, ice parents trying to avoid a bow shot, okay, we’re gonna leave it there. You threw a terrific, great thanks. Provenance. I love your energy was a field but i feel the bond between yes buy-in riches you hear in here. First, they are carry louis carlson, owner of clc consulting on larra koch, associate director online fund-raising at smithsonian institution. We are non-profit rate we are non-profit radio covering eighteen ntc on this interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits ladies, thank you so much. You know, it was my pleasure to thank you very much for being with our coverage. We need to take a break when you see piela do you need help with your nine, ninety or your brooks? Are you brooks brooks? I can’t believe i did that again, like last week or your books properly managed. Have you got books? Uh, this time, i wouldn’t even just make sure you’ve got brooks. Have you got them? Do you have good financial oversight in place? This is the stuff that where you can help you with you. Want to talk to the partner? You eat much doom. I’ve gotten to know him. I trust him. He’ll tell you whether they can help. Wagner. Cps dot com now, time for process. Blocking your progress. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighty, ninety si non-profit technology conference. Coming to you from new orleans, this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guest is stephanie dahna she is director of in reach solutions, and her workshop topic is when process blocks progress workflow, efficiency for non-profits stephanie, welcome to the show. Thank you, penny. What was the need for this? This this topic? Why do we have to talk about this wire? Workflows important. So we are a small agency for case management system, burn non-profits we work in child welfare, and what we do a lot is implement the software with agency, right? A lot of these agencies do they struggle with understanding what they do it’s like you do it on a regular basis, but you don’t know, so i know how to communicate it. So when you’re putting it into ah digital format into a software, we actually have to know what you’re doing in order to get the results that you’re looking for out in reports and things like that. Okay, right? And so if they can’t communicate it clearly it’s hard to know where their pain points are where to help them. And some people just aren’t prepared for that, especially the small agencies. They don’t have the staff on hand that have done kind of analysis of what their current processes are. Alright, so what? What do we do? We need to help non-profits do better than what they need to better understand what their processes are. They dio yeah, yeah, absolutely definitely want to know how, what? There be able to communicate where they’re at to understand where they want teo processes there. Workflow there we were talking about the stuff they do day today. Yes, described it. Okay, uh, how do we help him do this? How do we help them? Hyre? What are we looking first for? The pain points, or we’re just trying to understand what the flows are first. Yeah. Trying to understand what the flows are. The pain points often come out. Burn that? Yeah, absolutely. In that discussion. Okay, so are we mapping? The process is how do we how do we identify what are workflows are? Yes. So it would be lovely, teo. Question. Like time. Like a little boy. Something radio. Make sure do i understand what you’re saying? Yes. Uh, yeah. I mean, do you do? We is that we do. We we mapped the workflows absolutely, yeah. And a lot of that comes out through a discussion of, like, what do you do? You it’s? Not so come on, francis it often times people are so familiar with what they’re doing, that when when they’re talking, when i asked questions about it, they’re actually no, i can’t describe it. They’re not actually sure sometimes they don’t have the right people in the room to make. They’re not getting a full picture. And so it involves a lot of people on the team and they’re different perspectives in order to get the full picture so that we know in the software, what are we planning to do for them? Like, you know, do we want to automate some of the pieces? What? What are we trying to do to improve? They’re coming to us for reasons of their process. Yes, absolutely. So often technology is blamed for problems when really it’s the processes around the technology and maybe even some of the people that are the difficulties is not the technology. No. Well, i mean, it might be the technology i have sometimes astrology is erroneously blame? Yes, absolutely, absolutely because they’d not really sure what the process is and where either pain points are where maybe even where they’re successful in something, what did they want to continue to keep when they moved to the next? The next piece of software? Okay, wth this all relates down to efficiency, right? Absolutely more efficient, effective, faint on we only do that by being introspective about what, what it is we’re doing and it’s not even that everything is completely about efficiency mean that it’s going to like help with the bottom line and with staying in budget, but i think i do, does your process actually reflect? Your mission is important as well, so they’re definitely things where we’ve done internal processes for my organization, that we’ve changed and what we’re choosing not to make videos let’s say to make things super efficient and not cost so much because our mission is to empower organizations it’s really like partner with them and work with them so we’re actually work. We’ve chosen to speak live, you know, with our clients and because we feel like that’s really, really important rather than sending them off to just support guides all the time. That makes sense, right? So it’s, like you need you need both. Not only are you looking for efficiencies, which definitely is is going to be a value for your organization, but doesn’t mission. This mission comes suddenly. All right, so if we do want to identify our workflows and then pain points emerged from that what wei have technology? Teo, are you said, based on discussions, how do we start to work? How do we stop the map? Are flu’s rate of information and work through the office? So we actually like in the workshop, what we’re going to talk about is you have done yours, you know, it’s tomorrow, tomorrow and the day so you’re still one thirty is still thinking about it. Yeah, always thinking about that because you have already finished there. Right? Right. Right. You having? No, not yet. No. I’ve so that together we felt to be good tonight. Last finale is so how do we get this started? So the way that we like to do it, we’ve watched there’s this really excellent ted talks by a man named ted head. Tom would tom. Logic and he talks about i’m taking a really simple process so that people understand why it’s even important to due process mapping and he does it with with toast, right? So something that we’re all fairly familiar with this, how do you make toast taking that? And so that’s, what within the workshop we’re going to do is diagramming toast get people all on the same page that we understand that were regularly building process and then it’s interesting cause then every every piece of every action item that you would do to move your process from step one two step z. Okay, you will you khun sticky note it. And when we sticky note then we have the ability to be flexible with our process who’s in the room when we’re doing this, because listen, listeners don’t have the benefit of being at your workshop. That’s why that’s? Why i’m here get demanding you to another twelve thousand people who move, some of whom may be here, but not all of them, obviously so they’re not going to see your your toast diet totally. Yeah, workflows but this is something we can take. Okay, way. Have sticky notes. Who belongs in the room when we start doing this, key stakeholders are in the room so it can be executive level, but i think it’s also the people who are literally doing the work, they need to be heard and understood because there may be points of process, nobody knows that they don’t know that they’re doing i’m taking the information from jessica and bringing that in, but, well, how do you get that information? I just call her up right under an email and tell her that i need the info now for these three cases, right? We have, and then later today i’ll need some or totally informal think we don’t know that’s going on exactly know they don’t know we’ve had a client recently that, like what your name is, jessica. I don’t know, stefan. I know. There’s pulling around on the name anyway, i ok? It was random. I don’t. I don’t think your name. Just thank you. News that we have a client that literally walks from their office paperwork over to another office. They literally walks. Were like this. Amazing. You’re to save five hundred steps every day. You have to find another. Way to get those steps in for your counters, whatever, but okay, okay. So so in the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dahna so in the room, we have a whiteboard and we have post it notes, we’re all the stakeholders and all the people it’s, the stakeholders, people doing the work, people doing the where we will also have senior staff, all right? And we’re taking a process. Like what? How do we define a process? So i like to think of it in sections, so don’t think of it necessarily likes top to bottom, group it into, like, parts of the process, so make it understandable, relatable, really quickly so that you can start tio drill down more into more complex process is because a lot of times processes are nested, right? So during a licensing process let’s say you would part of it is seeming background checks. Part of it is getting documentation, part of it, a signing documentation part of it is writing a home study, and then you’re going to, like, take it up to the state. Okay, there’s, lots of different processes. And before we just say okay, we do one, two, three that might be a good way to go about. It is just ordering what you khun d’oh. I like to section it, so that it’s more manageable chunks that make sense, okay, of course, those and then and then put the chunks together. Yes, then you’ll see the whole top to bottom, right, then you will see everything together, and because it becomes very overwhelming, if you look at the whole process, right, and we work with adoption, foster care agency license against one part of that process. So it’s, knowing windows licensing come in, what happens before what happens after, but looking at one chunk at a time so that you can organized that, okay? And then when you’ve got okay for step, one of the licensing process is we send some email to a family. We then can use it, used that on a sticky note and talk about that is like, how is that getting done? Is that scent through email or we mailing? Why would we? Male versus versace sent email and so you start to have discussions and probably like you said, executive level may not have any idea that actually paper males actually going out and that all the packets are in different locations or the documentation that needs to go not back. It might be, you know, there’s things that start to go come to light that aren’t necessarily known by everybody as as the stakeholder. Everybody who should be in the room. Okay, we got to take a break. Tellers it’s the time it’s time now start thinking of the companies that you can refer and ask them to switch to tell us you’ve heard the testimonials from both sides, from the charities and from the companies. For goodness sake, it’s. Time to start investing in your long term passive revenue month after month, you get fifty percent of the card fees that go to tell us. Start with the video at tony dahna slash tony tello’s now back. To stephanie’s as yak dahna from eighteen ntc then, after we’ve we’ve done our map of the process. What are we? Well, he’s had a lot of conversations going to emerge out of this just out of the mapping exercise, right and pain points, my voice cracked, sorry, like i’m fourteen sametz main points are going to emerge and that’s where we can maybe applies and technology make things more efficient. Certainly yeah, or at least change, you know, or maybe maybe the process even shouldn’t change, but we need to understand why we’re doing it this way. Is there a good reason for doing it this way? And is there a reason for not changing? That happens sometimes? Yeah, absolutely, yeah, it’s not that everything in your process needs to change. A lot of times you got where you are because you’re processes is working it’s just there’s some reason that drove you to be two, to need to look at your process or like, you know, here we are at this technology conference. A lot of times it is to adopt a new technology because something doesn’t quite fit, you’re right? Yeah, white hair on my sweat, believe, is a foolish thing. Off there would have been your clothes. Have his white hair on my sweater. I can’t get it out because it’s so close, i can see right so close by, you see a double, and i kept grabbing the a fake one, all right, i got it. Little host digression. Okay, so there’s more to say about this. So i know part of your presentation is going to be mapping, toast, our journey, but we don’t. We’re not gonna do that here. No, but we still have another, you know, ten, fifty miss together. So what are we going toe whatmore, do small and midsize. Non-profits did you know about this workflows process so that they can scrutinized their own? I mean, it’s it’s important? No know going into it, it’s gonna be a dip, a difficult discussion. It is always important to bring in all the players, right? And really, even though we on the radio aren’t doing that exercise, it is an excellent exercise, too. Open up people’s minds to that. We all understand how to diagram. Can we talk about it when we talk through the toast example? Totally, you know, no, i don’t think it has to be visual, right? So this is we’re using this as an example of how to map your your own workflows process? Yes, exactly. And it’s in it’s ah, like an exercise. You can literally do this exercise with your team, so it feels kind of like, why would i do this? But it brings laughter. It brings cohesion on, but also brazen understanding of oh, we all see things from different perspectives, and when we actually talk about it and get it out in the open, we can see that and then improve our process because that might have been some of the problem is that you don’t actually know what other people are doing. I’m a little skeptical. That we were going to bring all this out. Okay. All right. So go ahead. Your facilitator get us get started. So the first part of the program are the exercise is going to be teo, actually diagram. So with a piece of paper and you are going to draw an image of how toast goes from, you know, a piece of bread, two toasts on whatever it might be. So for me, i used the toaster in other countries. They use a saute pan, and here it is, right at the end of the toast. Maybe you just want to eat it plain and dry. Maybe some people don’t. Maybe they put butter on it. Maybe they put jelly. I was. I did this presentation in in california earlier. There was a gentleman from australia. He puts vegemite. Right? It’s. Like what? What are the different people bringing some people? Look at these examples as very people center. Some people are very, very detailed. Some people keep it real simple. Well, i mean, i mean included in this. You have to go to the go to the pantry or the refrigerator where you store your bread, right? I mean you got to get you gotta get the substance first. Some people may not remember that step and what’s interesting. I actually just spoke with a client. It was very good that i thought that absolutely, yeah, i appreciate that. Okay, so so i just spoke with a claim who’s actually used the example in in her non-profit setting in the foster care agency she works with, and what she found was interesting is that she now knows kind of what people think. Look how they think about what they’re doing and what do they need? Right? So she gave a really great example of one of the women needed. All of the resource is before i get started, i need have the jelly neto have the toast they need tohave the plate, right? Whatever really isn’t a plant she’s a planner, and that opened her eyes to how to better communicate with that person because not everybody comes at it that way. When i draw the toast, i get the plate in the middle. I also like we always joke about it isn’t like i’m single mom, some like doing the dishes when the toast is down, i’m doing. Something else? Because i’m gonna be super efficient. Ok? Ok. All right. So okay. So there’s, other value in this do? Yeah. In terms of understanding. People’s work personalities. Exactly. Alright. All right. What? We teach us a little more? Yeah, totally. But i want value. Not just, you know, not just filler. So what else? All right. So, you know, in terms of what? What else? What else have you learned from this? Well, so then step two is to then take all of these action items. Make the sticky notes, right? Okay. And so the point of the sticky notes is our brains actually work better with what goes on. A sticky note. All of the action items. All of the action items. So refrigerator walked to the refrigerator. Goldenburg, bring the knife out, get the jelly, get the bread pushed down the toaster, right? If you forget any of those steps, you have an opportunity to actually include them. You can also reorganize them. So if you find that it’s more efficient to get the plate and the jelly and the toaster and the bread and all of these resource is beforehand, you can move them from where i had them right in the middle, right up to the front, which means that you might need. A pantry to store all these things. Right? So, like, how can you make that part more efficient? Sometimes your eyes roll back in your head you know you just when you’re thinking when you’re thinking i thought you were having having a stroke no, your eyes roll back. Wait now i do a lot all wait, i don’t just recently started tio have been crossing but it’s like they’re rolling back like a stroke do that i have no idea it’s all white, everything becomes white there’s just eyelashes and it’s probably can’t do it on your unconsciously thinking yeah is going real first time i let it go one first time let it go. But now you’re going to call it. Thanks. Probably nobody noticed. Well, everybody’s going to know my eyes turn way another twelve thousand part castles. They definitely did not notice. Okay. All right. So you have fun here non-profit radio because you were not gonna have fun. Then before they’ll buy d’oh bother. I dragged my ass over here. Sit down. I don’t always you know, tio new orleans. I mean, it’s. A great city. Okay, i know it is, but i would have been here if it weren’t for ntcdinosaur, probably on the beach in north carolina, anyway, okay, that’s, a host aggression again, uh, all right, so what, the post it note stage every little step, and then you, khun decided i could re order you, khun reorder and s o tom says that the the ease with which we can re order it makes us more likely to improve the process, right, are were more willing to improve. We’re willing to change things when it feels feasible and easy to do that if we can’t. If it feels like you know my team member created diagram on. Some program, right? So it’s got the arrows like power point or something, right? Like she’s did this all this work to make this process look like that i’m less likely to go in? Terrible her work, but sticky notes a really easy there, real cheap. They’re very like budget friendly, obviously for organizations. And this toast exercise really again just allows you to be free flowing with it. Part three okay, let’s move on a par three is then to take everybody’s individual sticky notes and put them together. So now you’re actually building cohesion. You’re hearing actually what other mobile one? You’re putting them up on the board? I am tryingto rationalized them all into the same process. Exactly what? Some people, some people have some steps and other people skip those steps and everything. They might not plug in the toaster nothing’s going to happen if you press that down, right and so it’s like you can pull all the all the pieces. This is where where someone is walking. You know, the folder from one organization to another. You realize that that you didn’t realize that was actually happening before you finally get to hear everybody’s. Voice time for our last break text to give quote, i compared a bunch of companies in my search for a text to donate company and text to give is the best hands down. They have been helpful beyond helpful. I can’t imagine anyone doing this better exclamation mark clyne and quote that’s lauren bouchard from global commission partners in clermont, florida. You heard her last week also, you want to get text to give you want to do mobile giving? This is the company you need. It’s simple secure for info text npr to four, four, four, nine nine, nine. We’ve got several more minutes for process blocking. Your progress is there? Step for no. Well, so that’s that’s the exercise. But then the thing is, is guess set for i guess. Yes. Retract what i said. Yes, there is a step forward is to do this with your own processes. Right? Soto, look at this really complex process. You need to organize it into smaller chunks that are more manageable. Right? And then you can diagram it. You khun sticky. Note it. You can work together and bring in where what? The program manager believes that the process is and then that people who might actually be doing that process and hearing like i brought up this home study or the licensing process there are certainly program managers that are approving, they might initiate part of the process, they are connecting that process with the case manager with social worker, all these people were coming together to make this process happen. There’s also external factors like the state agency or the back where the background checks are being done, or the people who have to approve the home study. So there’s all these people at play and it really helps to bring a fuller circle because the program manager might only be connected with the case manager and a social worker. But these people are connected to the state agencies. And where does the family come involved? Right? So you’re pulling ever you’re being able to see everybody okay? Now in your own organizations, if you’re not doing this kind of work, uh, there may be processes that that you’re just not comfortable with. Maybe maybe even before the before you identify specific pain points, you just know that something is something is not right about the way. We i don’t know, acknowledge process donations and send acknowledgements, you know, there’s something that it takes us too long. It feels like it’s harder for us than it is for my friends and other organizations. So that might be a a rationale for applying this process. Absolutely. That process, you know, playing this this exercise to that process? Yeah. Okay. Okay. And really, i mean, tony, you can also mean we’re always doing process, so i love this book. I might get the title a little bit wrong, but it’s like the life changing magic of cleaning tidying up kayman and she actually discusses process in our life. It’s just like spring cleaning every year. But she organizes all of your items in your house into certain groups. Then she you take out what’s what’s not needed. You hold it up, right? And so i’ve talked about the mission is like holding it up to you. Do i feel joy when i touch this item? If no it’s gone it’s no longer part of the process like part of the process, i guess when you’re combining and you’re finding that cohesion with all your team members is going back and aligning with you’re mission and even even the mission or the mission of whatever project you’re working on, right? So if it is your donations and acknowledgements, you’re wanting to get those out krauz making sure that that aligns with how you run your organization, the values of your organization, how you value your donor. Yeah, okay, i mean, because a lot of times donors are multifaceted and how they work with your organization, so they’re not just offering funds to you like they might be boardmember sze, they might have been volunteers, some of the agencies that we work with, they it might have been families. So how are you touching all of these these people who have multiple connections to your organization? Okay, okay. And i like how you bring it back to mission also mean that mission it’s soo in importance, whatever, whatever this processes that you’re being interest. Really, really, this is organizational introspection, right? I mean, way i see it, you’re you’re, you’re taking a deeper look at yourself as an organization. How do you work? Yeah, absolutely. And i mean, like i said to write, so i didn’t want to throw in that. That book just because it felt really good it’s, just like you would do spring cleaning annually, you’ve got you’ve got to constantly go back to this, so sometimes your mission might be stale. Your people aren’t feeling it. I mean, you just have a sense if you’re in the organization so ambitious it’s out of the mission is dale, it could be it couldn’t be, could there is potential for that, right? So it may or may not. One of the things in certainly in the workshop that we’re going to talk about is actually making people also relate to the mission. So just like the process of mapping out where your processes making it possible so that your team actually feels the mission that they relate to it that’s not an abstract idea if it is a top down or as you’ve added people into your organization over time, though it could be you. Yes, you may have. Your mission may have become less relevant dahna or you may have strayed from it. Diluted it. Oh, are you? The mission itself may require evaluation. We re thinking absolutely. Yeah. Okay. That’s. A very healthy exercise. We’re gonna leave. It there. Okay. All right. She is stephanie and she’s director of n reached solutions. I said it right there. Bear close. Yes, grayce newsjacking yes. Okay. And my interview with her with stephanie sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc next week. Guess if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled durney dahna slash pursuing capital p when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers wetness cps dot com bye! Tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream durney dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine nine, nine a creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez mark silverman is our web guy and this cool music is by scott stein. Thank you for that information. Scotty. Been a long time. You with me? Next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in some type of potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time, and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c wait. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs. Do you like comic books and movie howbout, tv and pop culture? Then you’ve come to the right place. Hi, i’m michael gulch, a host of secrets of the sire, joined every week by my co host, hassan lord of the radio godwin. Together, we have, over fifteen years experience creating graphic novels, screenplays and more. Join us as we bring you the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about wednesday nights eight p, m eastern. Talk radio. Dot in lives. Did you know you’ve been playing poker your whole life, even if you’ve never played a hand of cards? Hi, i’m ellen lake and author of polka woman and host of the new show. Poker divas on the show. I talk about poker strategy helps you win in business, life and love. Tune in live every thursday, one p, m to two p m eastern standard time on talk radio dot n y c you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant. Our awakening humanity, thursdays, twelve, noon on talk radio dot n y c. You’re listening to the talking alternative network.

Nonprofit Radio for November 2, 2018: Working Virtual & Map Your Data To Your Audiences

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Credit & debit card processing by telos. Payment processing is now passive revenue for your org.

Fundraising doesn’t have to be hard. Txt2Give makes it easy to receive donations using simple text messages.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Heather Martin & Alice Hendricks: Working Virtual
We talk through the issues encountered when managing remote staff: technological; generational; emotional; measurement; recruiting and retaining. Our panel is Heather Martin from Interfaith Family and Alice Hendricks with Jackson River. (Recorded at #18NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference.)

 

 

Courtney Clark & David Mascarina: Map Your Data To Your Audiences
Feed your folks the data they crave. Courtney Clark and David Mascarina have identified 5 audience types and their data needs. She’s with Forum One and he’s from the Conrad N. Hilton Foundation. (Also recorded at #18NTC.)

 

 

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

View Full Transcript


Transcript for 414_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181102.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:57:20.084Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2018…11…414_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181102.mp3.100731534.json
Path to text: transcripts/2018/11/414_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181102.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with strep. Oh, simba, leah if i had to read that you missed today’s show working virtual we talk through the issues encountered when managing remote staff technological, generational, emotional measurement, recruiting and retaining. Our panel is heather martin from inter faith family and alice hendricks with jackson river. I was recorded at eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference and map your data to your audiences. Feed your folks the data they crave. Courtney clarke and david mask arena have identified five audience types and their data needs she’s with forum one and he’s fromthe conrad and hilton foundation that’s also recorded at eighteen. Auntie si, tony, take two who’s on first, we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising david driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com bye! Tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made. Easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Here’s working virtual welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we’re coming to you from the convention center in new orleans second interview of the second day of our coverage all our ntcdinosaur interviews are sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guests right now are heather martin, ceo of inter paid family, and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. Heather alice, welcome. Thank you. Welcome to non-profit radio. What have you wanted to be here? How’s? The conference going for you ladies? Great. Have you done? Yeah. Excellent. Okay, great. Next one. That goes good. Superlative. Have you done your session yet? We did. We were on yesterday morning. Okay. So, it’s all relaxing now? Right now, we’re just partying. Drinks last night. Exactly. Okay, all right. Your workshop topic is working virtual attracting and managing the best talent. I’m sure we have stats on how many organs non-profits have virtual employees. Or at least what the trends are. It’s it’s obviously growing. It’s really growing wouldn’t be here. And not only in the nonprofit world in the for-profit world as well, and especially in tech. Yeah, okay, absolutely it’s becoming it because of the technology that can enable easily to work from home, your chat technologies, videoconferencing, it’s become a thing and everyone is doing it now on exploring whether it works for their organizations a lot. Let me dive into the word, everyone not to quibble with you at all, but i was thinking generationally, are there fifty and sixty some things that are comfortable working, being virtual? Not well, maybe we’ll get to whether they’re comfortable having virtual employees. They will get to that. My voice is cracked like i’m fourteen get that, but how about being virtual employees themselves? Are they comfortable? I’m over fifty, so include myself in that? Are we comfortable doing that? Or, you know, i think it actually depends on the organization and it’s really dependent on the organization making the employees comfortable, and so i’m not sure i don’t know if you have any stats, but i don’t know from an age perspective, there’s a very good question about an older generation being comfortable having virtual employees under the managing them, however, as being the virtual employee, i think it’s all about how the organisation sets it up. Okay. Excellent. All right, so that there’s promised them for those fifteen. Sixty something? Absolutely. Okay. Okay, let’s, talk about it. Since since we’re skirting around it, how about comfort or discomfort with having employees being virtual when you’re over fifty? So i again, i i think that there might be an age discrepancy in the comfort, but i also think it’s just personality, and i’m finding that when i talked to a lot of people who are looking to work virtual and they’re asking me, what can i do to go to my manager, my supervisor and quote unquote, sell them on me working virtually my answer to them is find out what the resistance is. There is part of the resistance as we’ve always done it this way i need to see my employees to know that they’re working. And how do you get around that? Some of the key things that we talked about in our session are setting very clear goals and making sure that those goals are being met. But let’s, go to alice talk to flush out the gold. Gold setting a little. Yeah, i mean, i think that there’s not that much difference in terms of goal setting in terms of accountability for delivery, bols, that you’re supposed to be doing so used that the real issue is communication making sure you have a structure where there’s frequent communication and proof that you’re doing the delivery ble. So you’re measured not on a punch clock style of i get to work at nine. And i leave at five. And therefore i must have worked during that eight hour period you’re measured based on what is the work you were set out to do. And did you actually do that work in the time period? I said i would do it. So if you’re a project manager are working on a program area you work with your you work with your supervisor on here, the things that i’m going to get done at a particular time. And if that’s not done that’s ah, that that could be a concerned that’s a problem, but that’d be a problem in the non workplace too, but rather than time. It’s mostly based on work product. Okay, okay. So that should apply even if you don’t have any virtual, i think one of the things we found is that working virtually is this, or managing virtually is the same as managing in an office. But you just have to be much more intentional about what you’re doing. Much more intentional about your communication, understanding that you’re not gonna have that water cooler conversation, that someone’s not going over here. Something and understand where you are in a project and b ready to communicate with those people who are not physically in the office. But the management and the psychology of the management is very similar. Okay, it’s, very valuable, you know, and make explicit. Yeah. How about attracting people, teo a virtual or attracting the right talent so that we’re comfortable that they’re gonna work in this work environment? What do you, what you thought? Well, there’s. Two thoughts on that that i have one is what one is that your talent pool is the entire country or world, should you see fit? And there are wonderfully talented people in places that aren’t in the city or town in which your organization is located, and it gives you this ability to recruit from a wide place. And you can also hyre incredibly talented people from who have a wonderful life style. In a less cost of in my organization, we have people who live in a lower cost of living state than washington, d c where were based, and that allows me to provide a living wage and for my employees in that. But the other thing is just you, when you’re recruiting, you have to be very mindful of the interview process, and i think one of the things we talked about in our session was helping people figure out who these folks, how well they’ll respond to working virtually how do you do that in an interview? Yeah, who’s best with that, heather so so some of the things that that we recommend, some of the things that we recommend is number one, we use technology as a tool to enhance communication in a virtual environment. So sometimes you’re using video comp, renting just for a regular meeting, and you’re talking through instant messenger and there’s other ways you’re using technology. So in the interview process, i always recommend that people use the technology that you’re going to require those employees to be using during their job if they can’t do an interview on skype or zoom or appearance and it’s very uncomfortable, it’s not to say that that might not be a good employee for you, but you have to be aware that there might need to be some training or development on that tool for them and no going. Into that is important when you’re hiring that person, and if you see generally a discomfort with technology that’s a pretty big red flag, or or or a red flag that you might need to overcome or that person’s not right for the position, and then the other question is some positions just don’t lend themselves to working virtually, and you have to be aware of that when you’re hiring also what are from? Well, one of the easiest ones that we look at it if you’re an office manager and you’re managing the physical office days, it’s really difficult to be virtual when you need thio notice that there’s a crack in the ceiling where the vendor needs toe, you know, deliver something and be their way. We don’t have a tool for measuring the coffee level. Zack remotely happen. And now there’s an app for that you can probably it’s time for a break pursuing they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They want you to see this because they’ve taken the secrets from the fastest growing startups and applied those to your non-profit it’s free as all the pursuant resource is, are you accustomed to that? Come on, it doesn’t even bear saying it’s on the listener landing page that’s at do you know where tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for please now back to working virtual or any others that stand out to you? I think it depends on the industry and what the job you’re doing. If you’re someone who does intake or you have to be there to welcome people into the office, you need someone physically there. There may be hybrids where sometimes people could work in the office and sometimes people could work from home. And i think thinking this through before you moved to a virtual environment or virtual job for that specific role is ki you can’t just say, ok, tomorrow we’re just gonna go virtual zoho alice, how do you how do you create this environment? Gonna be hospitable? Toe virtual? I mean it’s all about culture. You have to create a culture where everyone is communicating well with each other, where people know what the expectation is on response times of communication has got to start at the top. It has to start a willingness that you absolutely to accommodate virtual employees. Okay, so it starts there and how does that how does the ceo trickling down? You adhere to it. So rather than walking from my office into someone else’s office and telling them what i think they should know that maybe two other people who aren’t physically, they’re also need to know i will do that on a slack channel, for example. So i’ll use an instant messenger chat program, and i’ll put them all on the channel and talk to them all together at once, even though you were the mark, even if that’s the situation. Yeah, because it requires amount of discipline because you don’t want to leave people out. The interstitial conversation that happens at the water cooler can also be done virtually and that’s pretty important, too. Okay. All right. We’re going to get the tools you mentioned. Slack, slack channel. Is that that it’s? All okay, okay. A chat. It’s. Simple chance a chance. A chance for you. You’re over my head, but i’m trainable. Alt-right i could be a virtual employees trust way. Mind of some technology challenges there, but we could get there. I’ll be there immediately. Got the radio stuff? Yeah. I’m very good at that. I mean, i got knobs and everything in front of buttons and all. I don’t know what they do. Okay, what else? Uh, anything else about creating the environment, making inhospitable? I think some of the things that seem or some of the other things are making sure that your remote employees have the tools, whether it’s, the technology or even a monitor to go along with that laptop that you’ve given them because some some people who go into a new job, they’re given a laptop, they say work from home and it’s not as easy as just is your home office conducive and being able to help them think through what are the things that they need to set up in a virtual environment to make them successful and effective at what they’re doing. We talked about it a little bit about security and knowing what the security measures are. You can’t go into a coffee shop and work from your computer. Number one. Are you on the y fire you on the public wifi? Are you on a virtual private network? Are you using your hot spot? You’ve to go the bathroom and your computer’s sitting in starbucks do you leave it there and ask the person next youto watch your computer while you go to i mean, we set policies around these things, especially in organizations that have a lot of regulations on data and accessibility for their information. These are things you have to think about when you’re creating a virtual environment. Okay? It could be hip, baby what’s the credit card p c m p c i b c i okay, what do you do when you’re at starbucks alone? You’re on you’re on a vpn virtual private network? Yeah, you have to go the bathroom. You gotta close up. You use the diaper changing table in and you pull it down in the restroom and put your laptop on that. Take care of your business. Okay? It’s? Very. You know, i love the ditty gritty. This are listen, i mean, we’re all about real life here. Way need detail. You need clear policies around policies that people sign and everyone is very well aware of what the security policies, our protection use of technology. You said the company’s versus your pride, your personal technology home versus away from home. Okay, all right. Help me out here. Getting else what else belongs all this? What else belongs in our policy? Well, so there’s, we’re talking about there’s communication policies. How? I mean, one of the things that we found when we first started having more virtual employees. We started as an in office, evan was in the office, and as we grew into different communities, we had employees in different cities and states than our headquarters were located in and things like when i sent an email, i just need you to acknowledge that the email resent if you’re in the office and i send you an e mail and you haven’t responded, i could walk into your office and say, hey, you get my e mail even if you’re not ready to respond to it. I know you’ve gotten it, and by five o’clock that day, i’ll get an answer when someone’s virtual and you send an e mail, you have no idea if it got lost, did it go into their spam and you have to get some kind of communication with one quick got it. So we said a communication policy that says if i asked you something or requested something, you send an email back saying, i got it, and i’ll get back to you by wednesday period the end it’s all set, and so that that you need to be very much more aware of those types of things and other community way have communication policies that go along with that. Okay, alice, you want teo or policy statement? I mean, the security, i think, is the most important, you know, the email security, the hacking potentials. You know what happens also, when someone is let go, the lockout procedures, they have access to all of your systems, and they’re, you know, in north dakota somewhere to coffee shop, you have to shut down all of their access to things. So all of that needs to be planned at the level in the company. What are you going to do and how you handling staff with remote devices? Can we do this if we don’t have a dedicated staff person? And we don’t have a dedicated staff person? Yes, face-to-face so the family says the answer is yes, okay, because are you know, we’re small and midsize non-profits in this audience, listeners. So you you on board someone with technology when they leave, you do the same thing on lee with a virtual person, you don’t physically have them there, and so you have to do the same thing you would do if someone was in the office, but make sure you couldn’t do it while they’re not physically there. How did they get your computer back to you? Do they fedex it to you? Are you going to go pick it up somewhere if they’re not there? And so just those types of things need to be thought through, okay? No. Excellent. I love the policy statement details because this is stuff you have to think through, and then alice to your point, has to be activated, implemented on from the top absolutely can’t just have a policy and ignore it. You know, if if it’s the ceo hyre it’s a sea level person whose whose distant you know, they too have to say, i got your e mail and i’ll get back to you by wednesday, everybody has to play by the same rules. There shouldn’t be exceptions or any accommodations or anything else. Yeah. Okay, um, how about let’s talk about some of the needs that your remote staff has we’ve been talking about managing the office? What what special needs to the people? But we only see a couple of times a year that’s a great question, okay? I mean, i think they way it took that long, they need community, they need a partner, they need a buddy, they need to know that they’re not all alone. I’m so frequent meetings daily standup calls on dh heather’s organization native oppcoll standup called well, it’s a it’s, a phrase for a daily time when you just spend fifteen minutes sort of roll going around the company’s saying who’s doing what that day or our a team, if you’re working on a project together, you know everyone’s together on either a video chat or a conference call, or it could even be during us dahna slack channel or a skype group or a google hangout, or any type of technology that people can come together for a period of time. The more frequent that happens, the more connected they feel, and there is an issue of feeling lonely, it’s not that you’re just going off on your back room and typing all day long on your own, you need to be part of a community and part of a team. And the technology helps enable that. And heather’s organization there’s you do? What is it a buddy? So anyone who is new who comes on board there’s a couple things we do one is, no matter what level you’re at, you come to boston for a couple days, toe on board. You actually see physical people that’s probably essential. It’s, really? It was one of like he learnings when i started working virtually is to know that there’s a physical person and a physical space or just seeing meeting someone face-to-face gives you much more of a connection to them immediately. The other thing we do is when we hire people we kind of give them we give them a partner. So we hyre associate director her in l a and we put them with the associate director in atlanta. This is not a mentor. This is not a supervisor. This is someone you can ask the dumb questions too. Like, how do i get my expenses paid? Or i’m sure they told me this during orientation, but i don’t know what. To do about x, y and z and just having that person that you know you can go to is critical, especially when you’re by yourself in an office or in your home, and you’re trying to go up the learning curve of starting a new job. Okay? All right? What else? Uh, anything else to be a empathetic to our remote employees again, this is a typical management. I would say this you should be doing this any time is just everyone’s intent is good. Assume that is good and there’s a good intent all all the time. That could be that that that’s going to have implications for chatting any female? No, you can’t you’ll never hear the well, not never, but most of the communications you’re not going to hear the inflection in the person you don’t see the sometimes you don’t see the physical, you don’t see the physical, you don’t get the inflection, and so before you jump into anything or someone sent and i get this all the time and sends me an email and says i need blank, well, that could be taken in so many different ways. Are you demanding something from me did ice not get you something there’s so much in just those three words? And so my first thing is tio okay, they have good intentions. Let me follow-up you need blank by when? What is this for? Get mohr information, they’re not now. They could be like you haven’t done something, i need it now and could be screaming it could be screaming at you with the default is the default is not do that and what we do actually, as we have everyone’s created communications charter that says how they like to be interacted with. And so i understand if you are one of these people who sends very short emails, i also have the flipside where someone sends me seven paragraph emails to describe one thing. And so if i understand how you interact, i could read that email with that understanding, not teo immediately assume that you’re yelling at me in the e mails. Excellent. Okay, very valuable. Are anything else? Anything else to be supportive again? Empathetic to the remote employees if we covered it, recovered it? But i want to make sure we’re the only other thing i can think of is definitely getting together at least once a year with the whole team culture building wants that, yeah, it’s tough, it’s, tough in a non-profit environment where you’ve got a very tight budget, but we have prioritized and all in person meeting in boston, so we’ve got staff in california, in chicago, in atlanta and philadelphia. We make sure that we try in our budgeting process to bring everyone to boston for two days during the summer, not only for good brainstorming and thinking and strategy conversations, but also so they can connect with each other and have that community and build that in person conversation and feel comfortable with each other, and you feel like once a year is sufficient, you know, if i had the budget to do it more, i want a little longer, but all of that, yes. And so you have to take it for one of the that the tools that we talk about is the airplane. I mean, yes, it’s expensive, but it’s a really helpful tool to really get past some of the boundaries that are put up when you don’t actually physically meet in person. Alice, do you have a virtual employees also? Jackson river, thirty thirty. Thirty. Revoting entire organization is ritual. Oh, my god. Okay, where’s, the is there a physical office? There is a physical office with three people in washington d c yeah, but so we all behave as if were virtual. And there are many days that i don’t go into the office so in it. So you know, it saves a lot of money and transportation costs. It stays dry cleaning bills for everyone. It saves child care expenses. If you know it’s a very great way to have a lifestyle. Because yu yu have that flexibility, there’s also downsides to it. There are days that i wake up in the morning at six a, m and check email and all the sudden it’s too. And i haven’t eaten breakfast yet. And then i’m until six at night. So you know it’s a the same type of work-life integration needs to happen in a virtual environment as well as a physical office space. You know, you need to know how to take a break. You mentioned saving childcare expenses. So so the the remote employee it needs to be understood that the remote employee may not be immediately accessible right for a quick, you know, for for a last minute way gotta talk right now. So i think it’s about have something going on that is going to hold him up for ten or fifteen way try and make sure that people have adequate coverage to do their job during the day, the hours that they need to work. So we have a lot of employees that are at thirty hours a week because they want to spend more time with their families. Um, older children can be met at the bus stop and take care of themselves for a few hours in the afternoon, but the expectations of performance are still there. You know, we’re pretty high street standards of that, you know, we don’t want you to be distracted from your work. He managed the west coast versus east coast. Well, what is the west coast people have to do? The westfield people have to start at six a m local time. I think a lot of people do different policies on that. Our policy is that you work for the day that work the business day in the time zone in which you live. So it’s, sometimes hard if we’re dealing with europe and the west coast at at the same time because the time zones i don’t overlap is, well, every boy’s in europe, we don’t have employees in your body to have clients in europe. So it’s ah it’s a situation where we have to manage that, but there are organizations that have west coast people working east coast, ours you have that way don’t have explicit policy that you work those hours, but we ask people how early on the west coast, how early would you be willing to have a meeting? So we will not set meetings with some people? Some people are early morning people and they would rather work from seven to three rather than nine to five, and so we’ll work with your schedule individually and so we so there are some meetings i will have on the west coast is seven o’clock in the morning, but that’s due to that person willing to do that, we have a few minutes left still let’s talk about some of the tech tech tools back-up that was i gotta ask you about slack. But what? Black dot com how? Do we find it or what you do for us? Blackbaud comets, how you find it, you know, it’s it’s equivalent to skype or there’s google chat any type of chat software where everyone can log into and then there’s you can make groups in them. So the term for a group in slack is called a channel. And in our organization we have a channel for one of the channels is named lunch and if you’re going to be away for twenty minutes are going to lunch. We just take we just like everyone who’s in the company on that channel and say, hey, stepping away for a bit, i’ll be back in half an hour so we are all know it’s almost a cz though you would see me walk out the door, you know, and i instead of walking out the door i’m just telling that channel what’s happening there’s channels for each project also. So slack is a good one. Scott argast black is already a verb. Just like someone you’d like someone it’s a verbal. You skype someone you trust someone. Do you remember a well, instant messenger? That that was a one man was that you could use that well, i was. But okay, so slack for for chatting. A quick, quick chat about document sharing is simple google docks or something better. It’s a simple a school back and microsoft has a great year. We have this product microsoft’s one dr sharepoint microsoft suite has has a document sharing software. Ah, cloud based saving system skype is now skype for businesses and integrated with it. And so we’re using that in the office and then there’s there’s a ton of independent ones out there. And it’s, whether it’s, videoconferencing or it’s document sharing or it’s chatting there’s a ton out there. And i think it could be overwhelming. And for us it was evaluating what was best for our organisation and what our upper management was able. Teo use we talked about this before is modeling the behavior you want from your staff and so getting upper management on board was key. So one of our project management software we use a sauna, and we’ve tried three or four of them and our ceo like hassan, and so if she was going to use a sauna, we’re all going to use this on you and so i think that’s really important. It’s got to be easy to use and work for your organization. Calenda ring simple is good calendar ring, yet you have any other tools besides google calendar? We’re using outlooks calendar. Yeah, okay. Microsoft again. Yeah. All right. I think what other categories we need. Teo a video chat video is really important to scrape. A couple couldn’t do one on video with skype you khun duvette dio with google hangouts, but any time you can actually have an opportunity to see someone’s face and most of the calls we try to do as videos on dh, we find that that works really well. River again, the sense of community and if you can’t get together, that’s almost the next best thing and video has come a long way. The technology is more seamless than ever before, and so at least you’re seeing the person you might not get all of the nuance of the physical that that’s in the room. But you can see it in emotion or you can see a reaction to something which is super helpful or their cat walking of the cat we could get a lot of pets walking in front of the camera while people are on video that’s gonna be a lot of fun to talk about cats, but, you know, you have thirty virtual employees. You have fun doing it. I mean, oh, it’s awesome. Oh, it’s completely awesome is i love it. And well, you know, the best thing is that that people have really formed strong relationships with each other, they when you ask them what they like most about working here is they say each other, they say the people i’m here because i have connected relationships with other people on the team and to be able to create a culture where people feel connected to each other in a remote environment is is like, that’s the thing i’m most proud of, anything we’ve ever done, it doesn’t have to do their software product or what we’ve done to impact non-profits is the fact that we’ve had a culture of people that have had a wonderful time working and doing productive, impactful things. Jackson river always had a largest proportion of employees virtual from the beginning, when the beginnings and the culture to start about about it in the family way started as a two and a half person organization in the same way got to probably about eight to ten people in the office. And then our growth took us into different cities and communities. And that’s when we became virtual because of the growth, and so were probably half in the office in boston. And then half of our staff is outside and there’s one or two people in a city by themselves. We’re gonna leave it there. Excellent. Very much. Thank you. Alright. They are heather martin, ceo of interfaith family and alice hendricks, ceo of jackson river. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. And this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc ladies. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Way. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with your nine? Ninety or your brooks? Are your brooks or your books of those books? And brooks properly managed? Well, i could help you with the books. Eyes financial oversight in place so that your money isn’t going to fly out the door over the brook talkto wagner, partner, eat huge tomb. I’ve gotten to know him. I trust him. He’ll be honest about whether wagner is able to help you. You know where to go. Wagner, cps dot com now, tony steak too. I was at the lou costello statue in paterson, new jersey. Remember lou costello of abbott and costello and who’s on first. So what’s the connection, i hope, you know what’s on first is you’ve got to know that i mean who’s on first. Now who’s, what’s on second. I don’t know’s on third. I hope you know what i’m talking about. The connection is you gotta have some sense of history because this this comedy routine and the abbott and costello you they were from the forties, and if you want to be really successful, implant giving and you going to be actively talking to planned giving donors, you need to have some sense of history from the forties or fifties and vietnam. My video is that tony martignetti dot com now it’s time to map your data to your audience. Nces, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur the twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference day two we’re kicking off our date to coverage with courtney clarke and david mask arena all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views are sponsored by network for good, easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits courtney clarke. Hello. Hello to you. Welcome. Let me give you a proper introduction. David, you could say hello. Hello, david. Mastering it from the convent and hilton foundation introduced himself. All right, david happens to be the digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. And courtney clarke is managing director of user experience forum one. Welcome. Good morning. Thanks for having us kicking off. Thanks for kicking off with us. Hey, happy to be here. You’re workshop topic is data and audience connecting to create impact. Okay, let’s, start with you. David. What do you think? Non-profits aren’t getting quite right in this subject. Like, why do we need this workshop? To be honest with you, tell you, please beyond yeah, don’t wear really blunt with the arika there’s a lot of data collection that’s happening in the nonprofit sector, but people don’t really do anything with it. There’s like a statistics where it’s like a very, very small percentage of non-profits you do something with data? And, you know, for example, there’s so many data points that in any day, that non-profit collectibe we have overload, i mean, really was data over there’s like there’s, like this just beautiful dash was like, what do we do with this? You have to stay close to michael, okay? All right, so we’re overloaded. So courtney, what we’re trying to do and have you had your workshop yet? Yes, we had it yesterday, so you’re on the downside. Yeah, this is easy for you. So what you were doing and then? And what we’re going to do now is trying make sense of data that well don’t feel overloaded. Well, it’s, it’s mostly around communicating data and really being clear about who your audiences are when you’re doing that cause we have identified five different data, sort of consumers or data people who will consume your data, but they all need different amounts of information, different formats. So for example, like a data consumer, this is like an interested person in the public. Maybe they’re a news consumer. They don’t have a lot of domain knowledge always, and they don’t have a lot of data skills, so what, you’re giving them is going to be very different than, say, a policy maker or a date. A producer. Okay, someone who’s more in depth in the details of it already knows, has has a yeah, you’ve identified let’s. Take it from there. We’ve identified five different audiences. Is that right? That’s? Different, different types of audiences. Okay, what are what are the five? We should start there. Yeah. That’s okay, what? Five? I’ll start. Okay. The next one. So data consumer two and then three e before there’s a ping pong tournament here. But we’re not. We’re not going out today. Okay, fair enough. So first is i mentioned the data consumer. This is i hate it when people say general public, because here you’re not really targeting everyone in the whole world. So let’s be a little bit more specific news consumers, people who are already interested a little bit. Okay, okay. Like i said, not a lot of dough mean knowledge. Not a lot of data skill. What you’re calling this group the data consumer. So this is the person you’re like scrolling through your news feed you’re looking at your phone. Ahn, do you see an instagram? Post or something on facebook, or even in the press in the news. And what do you see? You see an infographic that’s, simple right language that’s easy to understand. The point is very clear. That’s for the data consumer. They don’t have a lot of power, but there are a lot of those people. Okay? Hey, name another one. The next one is the data actor. So this is who everybody is targeting. This is decision makers, policymakers on dh. These folks may have some domi. Knowledge may have a lot of durney domain knowledge, but they don’t have time. So even if they do have dana skills, the ability to analyze and understand massive amounts of data didn’t have time to do that. They have analysts who are helping them do that sort of thing. But very important people. They have the staff, they have the cloud. They have our policymakers decision. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. Okay, david, just give us our remaining three. So, of course, to consume someone has to share it. So you got a date? A promoter. So these were the bloggers he got you get the journalist. The advocacy for folks. This software developers, the entrepreneur. So these people are the ones who are, like projecting that data out there so that the consumer and the actor be able to see that. And then you have the analyst, which is very, very important a lot. You missed this one too. It’s, like now i have all these data is beautifully being shared out being read, who in a way is a domain expert, this staffer that’s going to be able to analyze and help advice, what to do with the data. And then finally, the researcher you got, you know, these air, the phd folks, these are you know, i was talking about like jin ho was their learning officer, that comet and hilton foundation she’s a researcher, and we recently did a site visit nairobi, kenya, for one of our grantees, shopko shining hope for community and they have rich, rich data they’re collecting around there, committing kibera and compare, by the way, is the largest of informal settlement in africa and think about, like, a size of, you know, central park in a compressor that seven thousand people and there’s so much data that they’re collecting about the community and helping them with their health care and, you know, with an education and such and community services in the way when she’s taught dana, she was just, like, drooling all over it. But she’s, like, i want to do something that and she’s such an academic she just wants to, like, basically designed something around it. So these air, like the data modelers is with the academics of phd folks that will help let’s take the data to a new level. Alright, much so our audience is small and midsize. Yeah, non-profit twelve thousand. So we’re talking a lot of people there in small, small and midsize shop. Yeah, they need to identify which of these audiences they’re talking to some some may never be talking to to the researcher, right? Or the or the data actor. They might not be doing lobbying, so they may not be. So you have to identify which audiences you’re talking to, right? You guys hear me? Okay. And your headsets? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. I don’t hear myself too well, but as long as you hear me, ok, you have to identify who you’re talking to you and then okay, so so i guess we’re going to get through now there are different data needs different ways of conversing about data with data to each of these different audience that’s right? You don’t have that, right? Yes, we’re mapping needs and method to the five different audiences and the knowledge that they have tio and the time, right? So i mentioned the policymaker. They may have some expertise. They don’t have time right on time, don’t time like the researcher. Whereas the researchers, like, get out of my way. Just give me the spreadsheet, all query my own database, okay? And then also in the spirit of being totally honest, so they have to be honest with yourself who you’re going to deliver the data to, like. If it’s your board, it’s your board and it’s. Okay, you know, and some people are like, oh, this is only for one very specific orders and that’s. Good, you know, because they’re being very, very honest with yourself. Okay, very good. So let’s, start with the ones that are most likely for a small and midsize not to be talking. So certainly data consumer. Yeah. That’s your nose. Your nose could be your donors. I know you’re not calling your donor’s, maybe even just board members. Okay? Data actor. Maybe it could be any decision maker that could be your board as well. It could be. It could be your boss. It could be somebody who is influencing budgets influencing programming. This is the person who has the power to make a change. So it’s therein you figure out which ones were going teo so they’re they’re in data promoter. That could be a journalist. Yes. Right. So that’s potential. The analyst remind me. What’s what’s the likelihood of a small mid size shot talking to the analyst sometimes yeah, for smaller medium non-profit portable. Forget it. Yeah, yeah. Bonem altum but scale that xero scales up now we’re not going right. We’re not going treatable, but let’s, just talk about it, okay? I think what i think what’s different, though, for smaller midsize non-profits is that the people listening may be the ones doing the analysis themselves. They may not have a supper analyst. Okay. Yeah, and many came from currently hilton foundations. They get smaller foundation. And a lot of us were multiple hats. So someone might be liberta both, but yet, yet they still move every important. Okay? They’re all in. Okay? Yeah. All right. So what do we do for the data consumer? How do we have a retailer to that audience? Yeah. They’re a couple of key things. That’s. What we need. Yeah. So one is use plain language when you’re communicating to them, they may not know who you are, what you do, why it matters. Plain language is really key. Sometimes people get a little too marketing me. Sometimes they get a little too research. E you need to be able to say what you want to say in a really simple visual with some simple language like you’re talking to your friends. Yeah, we were at a dinner party. You’ve got ten seconds to explain what this is and what matter-ness schooling for. Graphic. That will do it for you or something like that, right? Or even just like a data point point. Okay, we got to take a break. Tell us, for pete’s sake, think of the companies you can refer and start asking them that’s the first step. Well, actually, the first step is watching the video. Then you start referring the companies and talking. To them, you’ve heard the testimonials from the charity’s. You’ve heard the testimony from the companies. It’s. Time to get that long stream of passive revenue for yourself. Start with the video. That is the first step video. Is that tony dot, m a slash tony tello’s. Now back to courtney clarke and david mask arena from eighteen. Ntc what’s. The summary. Yeah, and a couple of that with something you mentioned visually could be motion. Could be a visual visualization of data. It could be a story. It could be a video that couples with the data because just it’s. Just a lot more impact for when you, when you when you pair it, but okay, let’s, start to make sense. Your data consumer is gonna be a lot more interesting story then your analyst or your research eggs? Absolutely. And during our session yesterday, there are people in the audience who talked. We talked a lot about how we paired data with stories because the narrative makes it so much more riel, it elevates the people that are actually being affected by this data. So there were some great stories about that. Okay, okay. Back-up let’s, go to the well, anything else about the consumer? I mean, this is this is this is probably our largest constituency. Yeah, so i think the other thing is to be clear about what action you want them to take because your data should support that action don’t just and and actually that came up from an audience member yesterday who said people weren’t being moved by the data and so that’s why they started pairing it with stories and once somebody gets hooked and they feel those heartstrings being cold or they feel that passion rise that’s when you gotta capitalize and be really clear what the action is, whether it’s donating, volunteering on asking for more information yeah, signing up for the male daughter, give us your new gives your email yeah, and think about the safety step back a little bit this like you have to identify goal, like whether you’re trying to accomplish with this data set and it would help you help you with to decide like what to share in how to share that welfare that’s always important place to start gold. What was the purpose of this, exactly what we’re trying to move people and then we try to move people to do and then be clear about exactly called. Okay? That’s, right? And the goal is the hardest part. Frankly, knowing the goal is the hardest part. It’s on so simple, but it’s like that ask why five times you got to get to the real root of why you’re doing this. All right? We’re talking about our actor actor. Okay, refresh my recollection, who’s, this decision makers, policymakers, people who are going to make the change that you want, sir. Yeah. Okay. Okay. How do we talk to these people that data. So the format is briefings sometimes it’s in the form of a press release. They need, like, think about a policy maker who has a staff and maybe they have to vote on a bill or make a decision. The staff member is the one who’s calling non-profits calling agencies and saying what’s happening in my district around this topic. So being able to slice your data by topic and location is really valuable to these folks and getting this summary out and again the action. What? Why does this matter and their actions going to be different than the consumer? Usually you’re looking for a decision, a vote, something exactly what you want to say more about the actual, i think something that’s adjustable something that if you could package it for them, like staying here, the key takeaways from this a swell, you know, think of this, like, you know, you know, working the communications team. And, you know, we provide press kits for people. And if you could provided that, you know, so so they could easily digest and help, um, guide them through the decision making process, i think will be the key. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And i guess also keeping in mind you you may not be talking to the principal. Yeah, right, right. It could be a staff staff, something. Usually it is so it’s. Gotta be it’s. Gotta be so your your urine for always going through someone to the decision maker way don’t love that. Right? Twice removed, twice removed from your there once removed from your data. Yeah, it happens. I mean, that’s what? Any communication, though. Anytime you’re putting something out, somebody could take it. Andi at their own commentary around it. That’s what? The data promoter that’s a that’s a benefit in a risk, right? Because they could date a promoter could be multiplying. Your audience is your audience, but they could be putting their own message. They could be manipulating the data in a way that may not be true to it. But, you know, were you everybody has had, you know, that journalist didn’t get the quote quite right? Yeah, you are taking over simplification exactly. If the press often has to do to make something interesting to readers, you know, put in a headline. Yeah, yeah, and the promoter should also think about, like, segmenting looking if they could do, like, a more targeted in a way, like, if they know specifically that they’re going to try to communicate. Teo, i think they’ll be the key as well. And you get to know your trusted data promoters, right? You know, the journalists or the bloggers are the advocates who you trust, who you align with the messaging around. So identifying those folks or maybe you don’t know them and you do a little research and you find out who you are, where, wes, you need to know within your sector who the influencers are. Absolutely yeah, i get a little bit of research. Goes a long way. Yeah. Back-up how do you feel about the standard press release? Since we’re talking about the audience of promoters, we’ll be sending it to either of you have, ah, opinion on press releases. Are they outdated there? Some school of thought that press release is dead. But it’s it’s still being used is using it. You’re still using journalists say they ignore them. Yeah, andi, and honestly goes back to relationship building, you know, like in communications, that our primary key is build relationships with with journalists. So when our press release passes through their deaths, they’d be able to, like sick. Oh, let me take a look at this and then dig deeper into the story for us. Just a little more let’s. Talk about building a relationship with a journalist before you want them. Tio, take some action for you to write about you in to quote you on that day’s breaking news. Yeah. How do we build that relationship when we don’t have a need? But, you know, we want to be in front of the person. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like i just it’s a good old fashioned relation building, you know, you have called them, reach out them email and called, you know, like you have no agenda, but i mean, this marketplace exactly you often cover way. Have coffee, exactly. What a concept. I mean, like, i’m also part of communications network conference, just another communications based non-profit unconference and a lot of journalists attend that and it’s a great opportunity, this plate, this form and ten is a another great form to meet people like i would add to that you need to be you need to understand that audience and you need to be curious about they have their own set of requirements that they’re trying to meet. They’ve got an editorial calendar there. Boss has told them what topics to focus on. They’re looking for. They need they need to youto help them connect the dots. So maybe don’t start with the ask, understand what they’ve been working on for the last month. What stories? What topics? And then being able to which, which, by the way, does not mean ask them what have you been writing me out? It means doing your research before you do the outreach, so that you know, so that, you know, you’ve shown that, you know, you show that you’ve taken the time to know what their beat is exactly not just asking you what do you write about lately? Well, it’s in the paper buy-in there dubai it’s on it’s, on the site, in the research, and then and then what are you working on next or what’s? The story you’ve been dying to write that you haven’t had the chance to there’s always a good answer for that and there’s a great conversation starter, especially like imagine putting yourself in their shoes, you know, like someone just roundly wants to have coffee with you, but you have no idea who they are didn’t even do any sort of research like and, you know, you have very, very busy schedule, and you have multiple crowdster headlines like we just need to remember they’re people tio don’t waste their time any more than you would waste. Teo spend the time with a potential donor. Exactly ask them what you’re worth. You’re not gonna ask them things that you want to know already write, write, write what is it about our work that he loves? Well. I’ve been giving to you for fifteen years, i think it’s, probably in my e-giving history, you know, don’t waste people’s time exactly, but but it is important to build relationships with exactly these influences. Okay, i would add to that there channels are largely on social media. If you talk to any journalists, they spend all their time on twitter. So if your twitter gene is not great it’s time it’s time. Learn what hashtags there using. Follow those channels, see who they’re following. See what they’re talking about. A great way to do research on also how to start to engage early on, even if it’s just observing. Okay. Okay. Very good. Okay, so i want you. I want to spend more time on that. I want to check my mike. Want to make sure that everything is good here. Okay, a little insecure about the way i sound. I don’t know. I sound you don’t sound good to me, it’s. Not okay to you, though, right? It’s? A little soft. Like i can hear myself. Really? I could hear myself, teo. You don’t hear me. According to richard it’s. Not as clear. Yeah, in-kind okay. And give. Myself a lot more volume. All right, now, my too loud. Ok, it’s. Good. Allright. Thank you. Time for our last break. Hoexter give quote, i compared a bunch of companies in my search for it hoexter donate company and text to give is the best hands down. They have b been beyond helpful. I can’t imagine anyone doing this better exclamation mark end quote that’s lauren bouchard from global commission partners in clermont, florida. Satisfied? She is with text to give you will be, too for info text npr to four, four, four, nine nine, nine. We’ve got several more minutes, and here they are for map your data to your audiences. Let’s, continue the analysts. Right. Data analyst. Refresh our recollection. David who is this? So this is the data expert this’s. The staffer that’s or consultant? That would help be a read data. Okay, and analyze it for you, like they be in a foundation. Now. I like the way i sound better. Okay? Like they’d be a foundation program, officer. It could be. Is that an example or no, i’m not necessarily. I mean, it could be a learning officer for the foundation meeting the one. Who’s like analyzing all the learning and data sets. Ok, he could be a data manager, you know, within an organization. Where would you? Where would you put a program, officer out of foundation? Someone who’s evaluating your grant proposal. Where? Where would they fit in these audience? Most like, i mean, it’s a little bit of both between the consumer and the actor, to be honest with you, because they’re both a decision maker. So they’re going to read the data and they’re also going to get this just like, okay, this is how my program is going and here’s how i’m going to act upon it. And here’s how i’m gonna adjust my strategy with it. Okay? Yeah. All right. So, let’s, go back to the analyst. How do we, uh, david? You keep going. What do we do with this? How do we talk to the analyst with our data? Go. No. Gosh, just give it all to them. Honestly, rod, they love him. They loved it. They love spreadsheets there. Said if they see a string of numbers, imagine like matrix type of thing. They’re like oh, my gosh, this is habit. Okay, okay. Yeah. It’s that simple? Well, they have, i would add that they usually have the domain a knowledge. Do you think of a policy maker? They haven’t education expert on staff or they may have an expert in international relations it’s that person who knows the domain quite well and feels comfortable digging through the data and furthermore to add to that, too is like if he providing which your goals and what your strategy is for and what they’re trying to provide the otherwise they’d be able to help you got guide you through the breeding process say more about that? Yeah, what shit a little bit, so think of him like, you know, like, if i’m like, if i am se the heather communications in the foundation and i’m like, i’m gonna talk to a data analyst we’re trying to accomplish x can you help me read through this day that what types of data sets can leave first collect and what’s up days says comey can provide so they’ll be able to accomplish that goal, then they were able to narrow down because otherwise they could they could. You stand in any sort of ways, but if you provide some sort of direction or gold. They’re able to, like filter things a little bit better for you. Okay, yeah, very good. Really good. And our last left audiences the researcher buy-in courtney yeah, the researchers are get out of my way and give me this red sheet they the like they may scan through your infographic, your visualization, your query tool. But really, they’re going to build their own query tool. They’re goingto grab that they’re the ones who are in sequel making pivot table like they’re doing all of it. Okay, we have jargon jail on twenty sequel i think people will know, but i’m going to pivot table. Alright, excel itself. Okay, sorry, i’m taking a data analytics class so i’m learning this stuff, so i’m excited to be able to talk about it just dropping, dropping top, but, yeah, i imagine you’ve got an excel table that is so large that you can’t open it x l can’t open it. That is what these researchers are are working in and they’re very comfortable working in and they’re the ones who may even be collecting data as well as analyze sing it for themselves, so think of it like a like a layer deeper than unless they got analysts who may rely also some visualizations. And of course, like a deep amount of pressure. But these guys are like they’re just like neck or forehead, deep of like numbers and data, and they want to do everything themselves. Yeah, yeah. So one one important thing here we have worked on a number of data projects and for non-profits or foundations any group who wants to attract many of these audiences, the keeping with researchers is you have, like, the get data page or sometimes we’ll put it in the footer and it’s, like, just download the excel spreadsheet because i keep saying it, but you got to get out of their way. Just give them what they want, okay? Okay. We have, like, another minute and a half or so do you have tools? And, uh, in your description, you mentioned choosing the right data tools. Any tools we can introduce briefly that you like, i mean, to be honest and this is like, tio, you get off being out of keeping it will be really hash tag riel here, please place if you’re old website have google and alex installed. I mean, you’d be surprised how many webs are out there and smashing non-profits believe that twenty nine, twenty nine percent of them are using do or not. Okay, okay did not have google and licks and police bare minimum do that and they said, like have i think the fun? Nothing is like have goals, you know, before it was like before you venture into the day the world? Yeah, there is there’s a great study that every action did called the state of non-profit data. And you can it’s from twenty sixteen. But it’s a great read a page i recommended. Okay, we’re gonna leave it with we’ll leave it there without recommendation. All right, all right. They’re courtney clarke, managing director of user experience at forum one. And david mask arena digital communications manager at the conrad hilton foundation. Courtney and david. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure. This interview along with all of our eighteen ntcdinosaur views sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you for being with non-profit radios coverage of eighteen ntc next week the buy-in bitches getting buy-in from your leadership. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing toe online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p well, you see, piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Bradunas cps dot com by tello’s, credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Durney dahna slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine a. Creative producers. Claire meyerhoff, sam leave lorts is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein. You need me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Dahna good. You’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sumpter, potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio, leo dot n y c geever. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Do you like comic books and movie howbout, tv and pop culture? Then you’ve come to the right place. Hi, i’m michael gulch, a host of secrets of the sire, joined every week by my co host, hassan lord of the radio godwin. Together, we have, over fifteen years experience creating graphic novels, screenplays and more. Join us as we bring you the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about wednesday nights eight p, m eastern, talk radio, dot and wives. Dahna did you know you’ve been playing poker your whole life, even if you’ve never played a hand of cards? Hi, i’m ellen lake and author of polka woman and host of the new show. Poker divas on the show. I talk about poker strategy helps you win in business, life and love. Tune in live every thursday, one p, m to two p m eastern standard time on talk radio dot n y c you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio. Dot buy-in. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Buy-in.

Nonprofit Radio for October 19, 2018: Your Tech RFPs & Donor Advised Funds

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Credit & debit card processing by telos. Payment processing is now passive revenue for your org.

Fundraising doesn’t have to be hard. Txt2Give makes it easy to receive donations using simple text messages.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Drew McManus & Ceci Dadisman: Your Tech RFPs
Two tech providers from #18NTC reveal what they wish you knew about crafting your proposal solicitations. Plus a few secrets their colleagues wish they wouldn’t reveal. They’re Drew McManus, principal of Venture Industries Online and Ceci Dadisman from Form.

 

 

Gene Takagi: Donor Advised Funds
Gene TakagiGene Takagi returns to discuss the pros and cons of this increasingly popular donation method that gets lots of press. It’s gifts for nonprofits, why all the fuss? We’ll find out. Gene is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law firm.

 

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

View Full Transcript


Transcript for 412_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181019.mp3

Processed on: 2018-10-24T15:17:33.790Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2018…10…412_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181019.mp3.750960386.json
Path to text: transcripts/2018/10/412_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20181019.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with sheer adoni sis, if i saw that you missed today’s, show your tech r f p s to tech providers from eighteen ntc reveal what they wish you knew about crafting your proposal solicitations plus a few secrets their colleagues wish they wouldn’t reveal. They’re drew mcmanus principle of venture industries online and sissy dad baizman from form and donor advised funds jean takagi returns to discuss the pros and cons of this increasingly popular donation method that gets lots of press it’s gets for non-profits where all the fuss we’ll find out. Gina’s, our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm tony take two a driving rant responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p wender cps guarding you beyond the numbers gregor cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four four, nine, nine, nine here are drew mcmanus and cc data zeman from the non-profit technology conference welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference we are in the convention center in new orleans, nola, louisiana, and we’re kicking off our coverage with this interview. This interview, like all, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profit i’m very pleased to welcome for our kickoff interview. Drew mcmanus and cc dahna sametz drew is principal of venture industries online and cc is digital marketing manager four for money and your seminar topic is everything tech providers wish you knew about reading an r f p plus the stuff you want they want, plus the stuff they want to keep secret. All right, let’s hope that the conversation is shorter than the title. Welcome well thinking. Well, you’re very welcome, let’s start off cc i love you. I don’t know, i don’t know if viewers of the video are not gonna be able to see your pendant, so show that off. No, all that off. Put that on the mission in camp. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Very striking. Thank you. Why do we need this topic ? What’s what ? What’s not going right with peace ? Well, i think it a very basic level as non-profits we all need to do our peas at one point or another. Right ? And sometimes they can be a source of a little bit of trepidation for, to write and to sort of put out there to vendors. And we felt that this was a very timely topic to talk about to help ease people’s minds a little bit about that. And really give them some deeper information into the r f p process. Yeah, okay. Drew there’s, there’s trepidation people people are fearing this this process, right as a web developer, we get extremes there’s either trepidation where people don’t know how to approach it because they don’t feel comfortable with how to evaluate proposals. They don’t know what to ask for. They just don’t know how to kick the process off or on the other side of that. They have this extensive laundry list of things they think they want without really knowing even what they can can’t ask for or what i knew. Platforms and options are available. The r f p process really should be more involved with learning what you have and what can be. Okay, so that’s, what we’re gonna be talking about what you have and what can be so both of you are on the receiving end of a piece. Is that right ? From from non-profits currently, although i’ve spent most of my career working full time at non-profit organizations and as a consultant working on behalf of the non-profit for these kind of things. So that’s sort of how we’re approaching this drew is definitely on the vendor side, but my experiences is farm or on the non-profit side. Okay. Okay. So, let’s, stay with u c c your description promised tio pull back the curtain. What ? Pull back the curtain of how tech providers are crafting their proposals. Okay, with you right now, he’s. The current can you ? Uh, yeah, yeah. I mean, i could talk a little about what’s behind this curtain. Yeah, i can talk about it a little bit from the from the non-profit side in creating the r f p you know, our peace can be a really big project, right ? They could be something has looked at that is that is very involved because you want to make sure that what you’re putting out there is is true to the project that you’re looking toa have completed, and you want to make sure all the right information is in there so that you get the right vendors because ultimately you want a good vendor experience. You had a good working experience and we want attracting the right exactly you want you want the right vendors toe look at that project and won a bid on it, and ultimately you want to find the best vendor for your particular organization on dso in this session, you know, we’ll talk a lot about, you know, really what needs to go in that r f p from the non-profit standpoint, it only in the session we’re going to sharing here, too, right here yet. Zoho back on non-profit radio listeners, i don’t know we’re going to be doing out here too, right ? Right now we are ok, we are right. So one of the big things that we’ll talk about from the non-profit standpoint is at a very basic level just being honest about what you need from this project to put into the r f p, you know, bring all of your assets together, bring your team together before you even start writing the r f p to, you know, figure out what you really want let’s say it is, you know, a website project. You know what ? You really want this website to do what you want, tohave it, what you want to have contained in it. You know what your delivery bals are, what type of conversions you’re looking at so that you can start the process out where everything is sort of laid out on the table before you’re even starting to write the r f p and then as you go through the r f p process, making sure that all of those things are in there so that you know it’s full disclosure for the vendors, okay, what i what should we have in place before we start typing words into r r r f what does stick with you ? Ok, the big things to have in place are number one, the team that is going to be working on this project and have a point person assigned. For the project and that’s a really big thing, making sure that there is somebody responsible for communicating with the vendors about the project, who, you know is going to make the time and the energy commitment to do that, and also gathering together all of the information that needs to go in the website, whether that’s text or photos, multimedia files, whatever that might be bringing all of getting all of that together because ultimately your vendor will need that you’ll have to give it to them eventually, so might as well do it right off the bat, and then you need to gather together all of your other sort of software providers. You know, any other piece of tech that might touch that website ? So if you have, you know, a fund-raising cr m ifyou’re in arts and culture organization, and you’re selling tickets to shows, you know that that software is well, you know, your email marketing software, whatever those things are that need to interact with that website in some way getting all of those things together. Okay ? It’s, time for a break pursuant they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take the secrets from the fastest growing startups and apply those methods and good practices to your non-profit it’s free as all the pursuant resource is our it’s on the listener landing page. You know where to find that it’s tony dot m a slash pursuing the capital p for please now back to your tech or f p’s drew let’s, go to you. Who should be the point person ? Who’s the right person were now our listeners small and midsize non-profits so i’m gonna assume there is no director. Ok, correct. We should be in charge of this process. Dede was sisi was describing. I knew that was gonna happen that way. Have a dd coming later. I’ll answer to it. It’s not here. Now, it’s actually, cee cee cee is with us who should be in charge for most organizations is going to be the marketing director or the vp of marketing that’s typically the person who ends up becoming the point person because they’re going to be the gatekeeper for most of the content architecture that sisi was talking about. And so that’s usually a decent person to be able to be the point to contact oh, and process the art piece that are going to come in, you know, i’m one year earlier questions you had toss to see see about, you know, the things that we’re looking, i didn’t metoo i’m not gonna look at me, i’m gonna beat it up. Now i gotta beat it up now, so i focus on myself, okay ? On my my mistakes. I know it’s just but being able to actually educate non-profits into the things that they need to realize before they even start soliciting our peace and won the big ones is that that tech provider world, especially web development, is in a massive state of flux. Right now, there are really two large competing schools of how to go about being a service provider, which there’s the traditional old school model of you. Give us the specs, we build this for you, and then it’s yours. Hand it over, enjoy it. Yeah, and then there’s mohr of the annual license fee model. There are one ofthese for things like design and development programming, that kind of stuff. But then there’s an ongoing relationship that provides training support. I like to call it attrition insurance because you’re going in insurance, attrition, insurance, you’re going to have people who are going to turn over, and you need whoever comes in to be able to talk to someone who has some kind of institutional knowledge about that online presence, at least and that’s really not even just a non-profit but in the tech sector, especially that’s been around for years now, it’s almost expected oh, and it’s still a new concept to non-profits and so even understanding when they start soliciting are of peace, they could get some very radically different ideas coming in, and if they’re not prepared for it, you might out of hand, just toss something else that could actually be your better solution. Do latto on doing a lot of nodding ? Yeah, yeah, i mean exactly what drew just said about non-profits are used to this in terms of websites, the subscription model type of thought where, you know, you might pay a maintenance fee, monthly or yearly two, your web developer but really, i think for this particular industry, that is the way to go because there is so much turnover in terms of staff and knowing that you have someone there at all times to, you know, sort of help out, you know, god forbid something breaks or, you know, maybe you just have a question that there is somebody there at all times that can really take care of that. This industry, maybe more than others, should be using that sort of dahna i’m surprised to hear that non-profits air not acquainted with this attrition problem, i mean, they have it in having a crime, i mean, certainly in fund-raising where i mostly you’re saying that they’re not factoring that into this process, exactly, exactly there not really thinking about how that relates to their web presence and also having, you know, a monthly maintenance contract or yearly can be very helpful, even just when you need a little thing fixed or changed usually non-profits will go out and you don’t try to find, you know, a one off kind of developer project or, you know, hyre a freelancer to do something and and once you have, you know, all of these different people that are going in there and touching your website at any one time, ultimately that’s sort of going to dilute the integrity of the website so it’s best to just be able to keep with one person who really knows it in it. Out now, i highlighted. Beautiful necklace pendant. I want to highlight drew’s vest, very dapper vest and pocket square. Now, i am not to be outdone. Pocket squares, but yeah, exactly. Undo that. Drew is the king of the waistcoat. He has a warrior he’s, a waistcoat warrior hashtag waistcoat warrior he’s got a waistcoat for every occasion, and he looks damn good in them. Thank you very much for your marriage. You know each other. You know, it’s outside, outside the professional realm way. Do we’ve been friends for a very long time. And actually, one of the first ways that we met was doing a session. You contacted me to a website session. But when c z was a marketing director at the palm beach opera, they became client of mine, and they’re still clients. Oh, and we worked together on a number of sessions and mostly in performing arts based conferences. But yeah, way. Have a good report. Okay, show’s. Awesome. I love that this is a great energy. Great five kickoff kick off our coverage of auntie. Easy. Okay, drew let’s, stay with you. Something else that sisi mentioned next in the sequence. Gathering the right information that belongs as a part of this or ft flush out out more that’s the perfect question to ask yeah, number question number eight is it took me a while, we’ll slow out of the gate. Oh, it’s, just a number eight it’s one the best ones, because that’s also one of most difficult, because when organizations look at their content, i mean, they look at the stuff that they’re familiar with and what they know. So the actual copy, the media co-branding elements and that’s something that they tend to do fine with but where we encounter groups, having the most trouble is when they have to actually get all that information from point a to point b, meaning that let’s say they have a system built on julia or even wordpress, which is what we use in its open source. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easy to extract the data depending on how that web site was originally built previously. And if in order to say what kind of data we’re talking about trying to get out, it could be anything from more complex information like customer data or event information there an event driven organization if they sell tickets. There’s all kinds of event. Meta, which are little bits of data, like the starting time, the location to find these terms. Because we have jargon. Jail on non-profit mirriam would hate to see you behind bars, but you live served time. You have. Not on this show. I don’t allow it. So you described it. You defined it quickly. Okay, so, yeah, little bits of data that right ? And so that they don’t know that that getting that from point a to point b isn’t a simple as doing, like a simple export. There’s no standardized format for something like a vent data. Even though google and apple have their own standards, it only covers a few bits of metal, so being able to move that might actually require a substantial amount of time and effort that they had no idea it was needed. But worse didn’t budget for, and that could sometimes be the most expensive element dahna project outside of something like developing an ap i connection to something like sales force or cr m or any kind of outside donor-centric connection between your data and some other outside latto yep, it’s the language that allows to different platforms to be able to talk to each other in the same language as opposed to having, you know, something in german trying to talk to someone in russian. Okay, now, how does it now ? I made you tigress thought your fault. How ? Does this all relate back to what belongs in our f and that’s ? Just it ? Those are the things that providers in my position usually don’t tell clients in advance because they well, do they even know i mean at the art of the stage ? Well, that’s just it most non-profits don’t they didn’t ask for that. But the provider doing replying to the r f p at that stage probably doesn’t even know that level of detail, do they ? They should, and they should be asking, and not every provider does that this goes into the heart of this stuff they don’t want you to know about the process is going to be iterated we’re not not just foisting an art of pee on a bunch of vendors, and then they return it within within this by the specified deadline. But there’s a there’s a back and forth there’s a community there. This conversation there should be questioning that’s a beautiful way to put it and that’s one of things that were going to be talking about is the r f in the traditional sense that we’re talking about way are is that the old school ? Throw out the laundry list of things that you want and get it back is not probably going to be in your best interest. We’re going to be talking about some alternative methods, which will be including project evaluations. We are talking about project evaluation, and a project evaluation is different than our pee. In that you will usually pay someone a small fee, a developer, aura potential provider to look at all of this stuff for you, and then be able to give you a legitimate fair estimate of what it cost will be. Okay, so that that’s sort of. Leading into your r f or is it in place of it could go in both one of the options is a migration where i’m sorry, ah, hybrid model where that can then let them build a detailed, accurate r f or they can use that as just the basis of being able to move forward after they’ve looked at a couple of groups to narrow down to a shortlist based on reputation and previous work. Ok, and this can only be good, really, for the non-profits because in this process, you get to know the developers who are responding to this r f p and, you know, that can help you choose what the right relationship might be, you know, rather than just saying, oh, well, these people look great, and there are f p submission looks great, but you don’t really know them. Yeah, all right, so we’re holding hands before we sleep together. Exactly. Get way. Get going. We’re going on a few dates before we sleep together. Okay, look on dating apps. A great wayto use that analogy. That’s. One of the things we have in the session that we’re talking about here now. Thank you. Is that if you wanted to go online and find someone to date and you just have a laundry list that’s called tinder ? If you actually want to find someone that you want to have a relationship with that’s that’s an entirely different story and shoot it might be in harmony, i would like to know the harmony, harmony, scientific that’s, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Profiles are more detailed, nothing no yeah, that i know from experience. I’ve heard. I’m happily married on dh, not on any any dating site. In fact, i’m happily married has nothing to do with other dating sites. That’s. True, i don’t know. I don’t see a ring, you know, you’re right, i don’t know. My wife has what she’s here, but we don’t wear rings right on. But, yes, i see your true oh, she’s on she’s, yes, okay, showing you just take that truth, okay ? So what was that ? Aggression ? Okay, all right, so so we’re dating, all right ? So how do we find the people who the potential vendors who could be valuable to us either for this project evaluation or for our f p how do we know where to send this thing ? We’re jumping around a bit, but listeners are accustomed to that that’s a good question, how do how do we know that’s actually really good question, and i know that, and i know that drew will have some thoughts, too, but if your friend on for non-profit that doesn’t really have a lot of experience in doing this kind of thing. I think the first thing to do is to reach out to colleagues for other organisms from other organizations who have recently been through a website, redesign or development project, or maybe you don’t even know them, but maybe it’s a non-profit or another organization that has a website that you like, reach out to them and see who did it see with their experience with and then also utilizing any sort of membership organizations or associations that you might be involved in convene helpful like a f p or a or p r s a and ten more any of those only, like number three any of those. And only after i prompted you. All right, let me sample warning would have been on my list. Trust me. Hyre where ? Seven it’s not there’s, no value. Nobody’s listening that yes, people listen. So all right, so i think that would be the first laurel referral to someone who did something you like or from among your or from among your professional network, including professional associations. Yeah. Putting. And i think putting it out there that you are looking for someone is really good as well. Even just on your social media on your linked in that hay, whether it’s personal or professional or both. Hey, we are looking to redo our website. Does anybody have any ? You know, recommendations, people you love people you worked with that you don’t love you no stairway from this kind of thing. Okay ? Do you have more ? That that’s a great way to go about it. I would say when you go the social media route or a public rout beep prepared for the onslaught. Yes, because there will be plenty of people who are in business development, we’re going to look for those sort of things reach out to you. The only thing i’ve really add to that is looking at other sites that you like as a starting point. You look at that that face is it pretty ? Do i like it ? Do i enjoy how it worked as faras the interaction and the user interface ? And if there’s, ah, website credit at the bottom, which not all sites do, but if there is, then start to reach out to those organizations. But most importantly, when you go to their websites, you want to try to find someone that has as much information about process as in the results because it’s the process that what we’ve been talking about here that really develops that relationship, that build a successful lives, you’re because you’re successful outcome ? Yeah, absolutely. Ok. Yes. You don’t want to just focus well said you want to focus on how great the site looks. It works. But was was it held to get here ? May not be worth it. It may not have been worth it. Is it a mistake to send out a dozen or of peas. I mean, is there an optimal like there ? Max, i don’t need. I don’t want to hear from fifteen vendors. I can’t r or just can’t process that much. Cc what’s. Your advice around how many descent ? I think that i don’t think that it’s a bad thing to get a lot back, i think in this kind of situation, because there aren’t there aren’t a ton, ton ton of developers that work with non-profits to start out with, you know, with some other types of businesses where you might get an onslaught of r f piece from web developers non-profits air a little bit lucky in that, you know, it’s going to be a relatively smaller number just to start out with, but i do think that it’s better to sort of see what your options are and that’s an important part of this process because what i find is a lot of non-profits when they’re doing a website project, they may be stuck, quote unquote stuck with a certain solution because they didn’t know what their other options were, and they were they were working with a developer aura developer was recommended to them that is saying, you know, this is the way that you need to do x, y and z and not that that’s a bad way, inherently, but maybe not the best way for that particular organization, but they just went with it because they didn’t know what there are other options were. So i’m more of the mind that the more sort of information that you have and it is it is a pretty good thing. Okay, so you don’t want to put our backs on it. Andi it’s likely to be a small number anywhere you’re saying, because right, and you’re going to sort of tear those things down. So once you get the first group of them, then you’re immediately going to be able to see, okay, yeah, these were not interested in so here’s, my smaller core group that we’re really going to look at, you know, and then from there, okay. We still have a few minutes left together, drew let’s talk about something that’s related to this development versus legacy costs. How does that relate to this sort of process and what listeners need to know about development versus legacy cost everything they don’t know, which is everything, and it is the biggest issue moving forward for non-profits is if you’re a non-profit like a performing arts organization, they already have a really good idea of what legacy cost is with labour expenses because their labor intensive organizations there’s no way to avoid that. Websites and technology platforms in general are starting to become mohr like that there’s, a minimum legacy threshold, cost wise from an expensive perspective that is increasingly going up because of how much organizations are relying on those platforms, but they don’t traditionally look att them from that perspective because of that one off here’s your website. Now i’m gone. We’re talking about the ongoing costs of maintaining the site exactly, but it’s not just maintaining the site, is maintaining that the ap i connective ity all the software in the scripts that make things do what they do change at haste, that is far more. Rapid than it used to be that’s a great example. Sites are goingto break connections, yes, and what other things are legacy costs that the last thing, the biggest one the next one is going to be with regard to how responsive design functions and responsive design is when you see a website on a desktop, as opposed to on a smartphone and everything shifts around so it looks better on a smartphone that works better. The underlying technology that makes all that work is also in a hyper state of developed and that’s, constantly changing. So it’s and it’s constantly changing to keep up with changes and things like iphones, they come out with new specs and new dimensions, and thing’s called media query thresholds change. So all the rules that go into how stuff shifts around has to change. And if your website or your online platform is a couple of years old, it may already be behind the times and not working well on those devices, even though you thought it originally was designed to do that. Now, listener’s, you’re gonna want to know that i did hear drew say the media query threshold we don’t have enough time to flush that out. So i’m gonna get you gonna get passed, it’s one of fury’s, everything but i’m letting this one go, but i did notice do not do not think that i didn’t catch it, okay ? And then sisi, why don’t you explain the different mean, what ? Drew was just describing those legacy costs and development costs, which i think is pretty commonly understood, but that’s just right, right ? So your development costs that’s really going to be, you know, the money that you’re putting out to make the site right in that first project to actually create what you’re trying to dio and it’s, i love that we’re talking about this because from an organizational perspective, it’s really important to keep a line item in there somewhere and some money in it for those legacy costs, you know, because a lot of times we’re just looking at it and say, okay, well, you know, it’s going to cost x amount of dollars to build the site and then that’s it or, you know, we’re given, you know, we get a grant for it or were given money from a donor to build the site or something like that and it’s looked at as just sort of a one off. You’ve got to think about keeping money in a line item for these ongoing kinds of things and also the developer that you’re working with. Khun give you a good sense of how much money that might end up being, depending on the functionality of your sight, because that’s really going to vary from site to site and from organization to organization. Okay, i should got they should another should from drew. All right, we gotta leave it there. This is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. I’ve been talking to drew mcmanus principle of venture industries online and cc dat baizman digital marketing manager at form. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc and this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with accounting or your nine ninety thinking about a change of accountants ? Time to get a fresh opinion. Check out witness. Cps dot com start there. Then talk, you know. The partner to talk to you, eat each tomb. He’s been on the show, he’s a good guy. I trust him. He’ll be honest about whether they can help you. Regular cpas. Dot com. Now time for tony’s, take two. I do a lot of ah long distance driving about twelve hundred miles every month, or or every six weeks on dh. I’ve got a couple things. Ah, couple things on my mind about that, that i’ve, that i’ve seen that ah, bother me. So the video talks about three of them. I was for here. I feel like the one i wanna talk about is getting gas. The gas lanes in ah, in a gas station are for getting gas and for cleaning your windshields on when you’re cleaning your windshield, that doesn’t mean wash your car with the squeegee that means clean the winter came the glass certainly get your glass nice and clean. Fill up the gas. Take your time doing all those things don’t trip don’t spill any gas, you know, dribbles over anything, nothing like that, but when you’re done, get out of the gas lane and park that car. Don’t be the person sitting still in the gas lane while you’re going to get iced tea. There’s a couple more rants along with that one on the video at tony martignetti dot com now time for gene gene the law machine you know who i’m talking about ? Of course. Well, who else would it be ? Jean takagi, the managing partner of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits the wildly popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he’s, the american bar association’s. Twenty sixteen outstanding. Non-profit lawyer he’s jean takagi he’s at g tak. Welcome back, jean. Thanks, tony. How are you ? I’m doing very well. How are you this afternoon ? I’m doing very well, feelingood out there. Good. Good. I’m glad. Um, i’m overdue for a visit. I need to i need to come see you on the west coast. The ads actually the perfect time that we’ve got some nice weather. It’s a little cooler earlier this summer. But we’re headed out towards cem. Cem a nice weather at the end of september and october. September, october. There are good months. You’re right. I know, i know. I’ve heard that from others. I’ll get there because it was, like twenty. I think twenty fourteen may have been the last time was that when we met, i think it was twenty fourteen the time we met, i think quite awhile. Yeah. Yeah. Uh oh. But then i had another trip, and then you were. I think you weren’t available. Yeah. You blew me off my last trip. I think that was two years ago. Twenty. Um, okay, so we’re talking about donorsearch vice funds. You have some interesting stats about how popular they are that they’ve grown oh, since twenty twelve, give us give us just some basic numbers so we know why we should be paying attention to these things. Sure. And i think some of your listeners may know that that we have to start paying attention to donorsearch buy-in funds and and i’ll i’ll use the lingo dafs if that don’t get me into jargon, no that’s that’s approved. Yeah, okay, so dafs sir, like the fastest growing recipients of charitable giving now in the in the u s so donations of increased from just under fourteen billion in two thousand twelve two. Twenty three billion in two thousand sixteen. And meanwhile, sort of in two thousand sixteen, we’ve seen the top. I think six, uh, charities or six recipients of charitable giving in the country were dafs so, you know, the biggest one being fidelity charitable out doing united way and and american red cross and everyone else. So six out of the top ten recipients of charitable giving were dashed. Something to pay attention, tio sure on also the interesting that the growth rate so you cited uh, fourteen billion in twenty twelve to twenty three. Billion. Twenty, sixteen that’s. Two thirds growth, sixty six percent over five years, and individual giving over that was five years grew by only fifteen percent. Yeah, and you’ll see a lot of reports now saying, suggesting that they’re fewer and fewer donors e-giving teo to public charity, that air doing direct service work. Now, the big donors are still contributing, but fewer numbers of smaller donors, and part of that because of the tax incentive that are changing. But, you know, that’s, huge growth in the donor by fun, you know, in light of those numbers of lessening donors, the growth of donor advice on sixty six percent over five years. Any investment manager would love that. Yeah, no kidding. Shoretz naturally. My my portfolio would certainly love that. My portfolio buy-in buy high sell low. That seems to be my mantra if you look at my portfolio over the lifetime of my portfolio, um, so you and there are a couple of reasons why these air so attractive to individuals ? You know, you get that immediate tax deduction first ? Yeah. I mean, it works great. From the donor’s perspective from, you know, from the donor, you make a contribution. You khun taken immediate charitable contribution deduction, but you get to practically kind of control that gift on and decide who you want to ultimately give it out to in future years, even if it’s going to be two years later, five years later, ten years later, twenty years later, you can sort of hold it in that fund. Now, legally speaking, you make that gift immediately, and you get the deduction. Because your gift is complete. You have given it to a charity in the in the year you made that gift. But practically speaking, that charity that’s, the dafs sponsoring organization, that donor by sun sponsoring organization, which typically is associate it either with a financial services company like fidelity. Charitable that’s the biggest, you know, charity that that receives gibson in the world or hyre you can give it to a community foundation that’s, the other big sponsoring organization of bath and so legally they have control of the money. But practically speaking, they’re probably going to listen to where you want to make the donations to so long that it’s illegal distribution later, so long as you’re going to make the grant toe another public charity, even if it’s you know your intention to give it twenty years later, that’s okay ? Yeah, the donor’s make what’s called a recommendation to the to the charity fundez holding their donor advised funds and ninety nine times out of one hundred. The recommendation is approved. I think basically, they’re just looking to make sure it is a bona fide five o one c three charity that’s being recommended. And then the fund hyre approves that recommendation and makes a gift from from its fund to do that to that five. Twenty three ? Yeah, i think that’s right, tony. So, you know from from the sponsoring organizations by then they might have a little bit more in terms of little legal obstacle. Teo to live up to but from from the perspective of the donor, a lot of them feel like it’s still their money, they still get to control where they’re going to make a grant to even after they’ve taken the charitable contribution deduction, right ? And it’s, you know, apart from sort of getting an immediate charitable contribution deduction, it also allows him to do other things like it allows them to give annually i’m sorry it allows them to bundle up their donation, so maybe they give to a charity to the dafs sponsoring organization like once every five years, and they do that because the incentives for getting a charitable tax deduction have drop because, you know, i don’t want to get too technical, but the rise of the standard deduction that took effect earlier this year and we talked about that that already means only five to ten percent of taxpayers actually get a charitable contribution deduction anymore for making a gift, because the standard deduction is higher than their itemize, but by bundling there donations and say, bundling them up. So instead of making a five thousand dollar gift every year and not being able to use that to get a deduction, they can decide to make a twenty five thousand dollar gift over five years, and then that twenty five thousand dollars now, combined with their other itemized deductions, is big enough to get the value that deduction so they can use the dafs to give every five years. But the charity that they want to be the beneficiary of the fund could receive money from the dafs on an annual basis after they do that, so to the charities that looks like the donor is giving to them every year once that funded the death. So another another useful way that that an individual can use the donor advised funds that’s created by the new tax laws understand, right ? You gross it up to get the get the hyre deduction compared to the standard, and then you can give it out, uh, slowly over time, all right, but make it make it the gift huge big enough to take advantage of the larger deduction at one time or maybe a couple times over several years, exactly in the charity might like that, too, if they’re like saying, you know, we actually don’t need your annual contribution because we’re actually saving up to buy a building or to create this brand new project. So if a year five you give us the larger gift, we would really appreciate that, so it can work for everyone involved as well. Okay, we’re going to take our first break, but when we come back, we’re going to talk about this feature of being able to latto it’s, make your gifts directly to the to the charities over over lots of time and the constant nation that that causes tell us for pete’s sake. Oh my goodness! Think of the companies you can refer and start asking them. You’ve heard the charity testimonials. You’ve heard the company testimonials, it’s time to claim your own long stream of passive revenue from tell us fifty percent of the card processing fees that tell us gets from the companies you refer. Go to you fifty percent month after month after month. That’s your long stream of passive revenue. Start with the video at tony dot m a slash tony tell us now, let’s, go back to jean takagi. Okay, uh, sometimes i don’t remember where i am. But this time i do. So i made because i said it, okay, so this feature that you can give over time over many, many, many years causes consternation in the non-profit community. Do i have that right ? Yeah, you’re right. So what ? You know what ? If the donor is e-giving annually to their donors buy-in spun and saying to the charity, you know, well, i’ll give to you at the end of five years at the end of ten years from my donor advised funds, but, you know, in five or ten years that donor, right have other priorities, and so that charity that used to get the annual gifts from that donor might not be on that list anymore, and so they can’t really think about that in their budget, so it does create some concern by charity. Yeah. Now, in that case, i mean, if i were advising them, i would get that pledge in a written document and the legal enforceability of that, you know, we can we can write us that it’s got some enforceability weaken. We’re relying on your promise, we’re going to take some administrative actions. Buy-in reliance, you know, maybe there’s a small consideration, maybe there’s a small dahna yeah, so, you know, we can we can we could make that legally enforceable in a lot of states, if not all the states, yeah, i think that’s true, tony, but then you have to think about whether even if you win the battle with the one donor-centric it in court, what that does in terms of the long term and your relationship with every other donors who now knows you sue donors when i don’t clean get yeah, yeah, i mean, you got a definitely are you ? Yeah, i know you’re right. This is an interesting conversation because planned e-giving i’ve dealt with this and way we deal with it as gifts come, and i’ve dealt with the aftermath of it after afterwards, i’ve never had a client that that maybe i shouldn’t reveal this. I don’t know clients non-profits are very reluctant to sue their donors. They you rather work something out. Andi it’s true, i haven’t had a client that well, first of all, i haven’t had that many clients we have to enforce we had where we had to force agreements against, uh, right against the donors and that’s, very rare that you have. To hold this document up that they signed years earlier and remind them of the enforceability of it on ben, you know, charities are reluctant to do it and have to be, i don’t have to be a scenario where there’s a lot of money at stake and it’s a pretty clear case because you’re right, the pr is very bad, and, you know, it may never even make the popular press, but just in donorsearch coll’s within that individual organization, you know, things get around, especially if it is a large gift from a prominent donor. Back-up yeah, and especially that donors still alive tony versus in a plan gift where you might be contesting it against airs or for other recipients of that. But when the donor is still alive and saying, i don’t like your charity as much as i used to, i still like you a little bit, but i don’t want to give you my full gift that i thought i wanted to give to you that’s a tough i got a raise, so there is a practical aspect too the enforceability of these agreements that i’m saying can be made legally enforceable, but but the enforceability and itself sometimes is enough of a persuasive factor to a donor that, you know, i think they keep up their commitment when, when they think they might not have otherwise might never go to court. Yeah, but the donor might see the seriousness of the donation and know that he would hurt the charity he or she would hurt the charity if they didn’t go through with that pledge because maybe relied on it to partially constructed building, and you need the full funds to finish construction. Otherwise you can’t do it, and you’ve wasted a lot of money and may be created some lawsuits against you for not being able to do it. So the donors, you know, relying on that donor’s money to your detriment or twenty to your detriment is is the basis for a lawsuit, and that would hopefully be convincing to a donor, even without the lawsuit part that you relied on on their promised teo, meet their place. I like heidtke idea. Yeah. Okay. Um but the bigger issue so let’s take it away from an individual charity. The bigger issue is that there’s. A lot of money parked in dahna. Advice, funds and we really don’t know how much and the what bothers congress and a lot of people in the charity community is that this money is parked there and it’s not getting to the five oh one see threes that it’s that it was that the donor earned a charitable deduction for giving to you it could sit indefinitely literally, right ? Yeah, so under tax laws, it could sit there indefinitely. So the donor advice fun sponsoring organization is not legally compelled to make any distributions at all. If the donor says nothing about it for ten years, twenty years than the sponsoring organization doesn’t have to do it. Although some of started to say, you know what ? We’ll have an internal policy that says, if you don’t, if you’re completely inactive your fund, we will start to make distributions based on what information we have of where you want it to go, so they’re trying to do some self regulation there, but there are no external laws right now that required donorsearch funds, teo, make any distributions at all. Yeah, well, i suspect they see a lot of a lot of the the the concerns, especially from the isat, the senate finance committee, charles grassley, chuck grassley is chair of is that senate finance ? Yeah, right, well, the senate finance committee might be concerned with that asshole, but they’re really the argument is going on with academics and professionals and big organizations, including community foundations and these big financial institutions all over the place. And you’re seeing a lot of books on the non-profits sector now sort of criticizing no philantech be including through donorsearch buy-in funds and the controls that these donors have over large amounts of money even after they’ve taken the deduction. Interesting, interesting discussions out there now now it za parallel to me, you know it’s, it’s, it’s similar to a lot of the planned gift’s a similar principle or policy around a lot of the planned gif ts so take i’m thinking like the charitable remainder trusts or charitable gift annuities where basically ah, person let’s use the trust because that’s not that’s, not charity specific. So let’s use that example. Someone creates a charitable ranger trust. They leave the option. Teo name some charitable beneficiaries a cz remainder beneficiaries which means at the death of the donor what’s left, goes to these charities and in the during the life of the donor or donors, sometimes a lot of times, it’s a couple there getting income for their getting income. So getting income for life when they die, what remains goes to charities, and they reserve the right to change your those charities might be now they get an immediate income tax deduction for that. When they create that in the year that they create that charitable remainder trust. So i see a similar policy. No it’s it’s. An immediate deduction for a long term gift to charity. Although there is some guarantee because the difference is that the donors are going to die and when they die, the people getting that people died getting the income die, there will definitely be a gift to charity. So there’s there’s that right there is that limiting factor. But you could see the policy similarity, right ? Yeah. That’s. Definitely some similarities. But i think that the donor advised funds are more concerning, particularly because when you do a charitable remainder trust, for example, your deduction is going to be the value of the gift that ultimately is left over for the charity using you. Know, like actuarial tables. Yeah, that present value there going ? Yeah. So what is it going to be worth ? The likely could based on average, like bands and stuff. What will the charity likely get ? That’s what you can deduct the donor advised funds, especially if you give gifts of like real estate or privately, closely held stock, you get to not pay any capital gains on it. If you’re a donor on, then you get a deduction of the fair market value, which is big because if you gave it to a private foundation, if you formed a private foundation, you don’t get that gift a fair market value, that deduction of fair market value essentially get the deduction of cost. So being able to sell something that, you know, wildly appreciated in value and getting the fair market value deduction and not having to pay any capital gains on it and then still having the practical control of where to ultimately spend that money. Um, you can see how that might be even more attractive. A donation vehicle tow an individual donor, but why ? At the same time they’re concerned some from from congress and from from others. Who think that they are, you know, advocates for the nonprofit sector of saying is really going to be put to good use for charitable use, or is it going to sit in these funds, particularly in funds that are run by some of the financial institutions where their continued to get, you know, investment season stuff that that air being generated because they’re continually being invested ? You know what charitable good are those funds doing ? You know, professionally, you know, if they’re if they’re held by fidelity and being managed and no promise of went to distribute. All right, hold that let’s, take our last break hoexter give, you’ll get more revenue because they make e-giving simple if your donor’s consent a text that can make a donation not only simple, affordable and secure ceo chadband oid very smart guy, he set up a smart company. You want to get the info, which you should, you should want to get the info text, npr. Two, four, four, four nine nine nine and you will ah, not only get info, but also be able to claim a special listener offer. We’ve got several more minutes left for fund-raising no, not fund-raising dahna advice funds where’s, my where’s, my lousy intern. I wish i had one. We’re not talking about fund-raising that was a big mistake. Sorry, jean. We’re talking about dahna advice funds. I need an intern. Esso, i have someone to blame for this poor copy. All right ? Yeah. Yeah. The fair market value. Yes. The donor donor advised funds gives a fair market value. You made several points, but the one that hit me the most because i do plan giving is dahna advice fund to get a fair market value charitable deduction immediately plan give to get a present value deduction based on your life expectancy. So it’s going to be less. And if you hold the money in your donor’s vice fund for twenty years, it’s, in fact worth less, then it was in the year you put it in. But you’ve got a face value fair market value deduction, didn’t you ? Well, actually, you know what ? What you holding to donorsearch buy-in fundez might appreciate wildly. So if you put a, you know, a million dollars investment or even a ten thousand dollar investment into a donor advice fund of apple stock, you know when it was nothing, and you held it for ten years, and all of a sudden you’re sitting on, you know, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars and nobody take capital gains tax for that, right ? But you are, you know, the donor advisor or the donor of one hundred billion dollars fund, you know, that’s held by financial institutions, affiliated charity sponsoring dafs sponsoring organizations. And, you know, you get all sorts of benefits for, you know, being, you know, the donor to donorsearch by son. You know, you get to go to the fancy cocktail parties and gala charity gallas and people swooning all over you because, you know, you can make huge distribution to the to the folks if it was your own money, but not your own money anymore. Yeah, well, it’s, not yours, right ? It’s yours to decide what to do with, but it doesn’t belong to you. The recommendation of where it should go belongs to you. Now, of course, on the other side of that, you could have invested in. Annoy ll start. I’m trying something the stock that crashed terribly, but you might have invested in something that depreciated on dh there’s going to be a lot less left for charity because you didn’t invest well, yet you got you got a deduction for what you put into the fund initially. So in that case, the charities really do lose the public loses out because a lot less money is going to go to charity. Then we gave you a deduction for sure that’s true as well, and i don’t mean teo be sort of a nay sayer of the donor advised funds because there’s a lot of good things that they do and, you know, they’ve been around for, like over eighty years, really, with community foundations and, you know, the original intent was sort of to collaborate. Have donors collaborate with the advice of the community foundation about how they could sort of use their money’s on dh use their donations together to fund some of the most important things to benefit that community. And, you know, that aspect of donor advised funds is, i think, a wonderful thing and the, you know, a lot of critics. Who are arguing against the critics of the donor advised funds so the ones who are the pro donorsearch buys fundez woobox are saying, you know, a lot of this money that is going into donordigital fun would otherwise not go into charitable goods anyway, they might they might never make the charitable sector. S so it’s not like saying that, you know, people are e-giving too don’t advise funds, and it never gets charity that way that, you know, the counter argument is some of those funds would never get to charity unless they went through donorsearch buy-in funds. And by the way, our distribution rate is much higher than private foundation grade, so even if the donor gave it to, you know, created their own private foundation, then they’re just required to invest or grant out essentially five percent of their investment assets per year and don’t advice funds are granting out, on average, somewhere about twenty percent of their assets for years, so we don’t even have a problem here. Why do you want to create rules to limit what we’re doing but there’s a counter to that as well ? That says well, that twenty percent includes donorsearch vice funds e-giving toe, other donor advised funds and that’s like when you want to shift your donors fund from fidelity to vanguard xero or to the silicon valley community foundation or did it new york community foundation ? You’re just moving money around from one financial talkto another one charity to another, but nobody’s actually putting it to use teo, do good for the community that the other arguments and counter arguments the other problem with that look atyou doing both sides. The other problem with those measures of distribution are they could be skewed by very large gif ts that come from one or two funds while lots of small funds aren’t making any any distributions jean, we have to leave here. Maybe we should have planned this for a whole hour. But we hyre is this your lackluster host ? He’s ? Jean takagi, managing attorney of neo non-profit exempt organizations law group he’s, our legal contributor just following for god’s sake non-profit latto blood dot com and at g tak thank you very much, gene. Great talking to you next week it’s website day https and getting more gift from your sight if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p weinger cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com, by tell us. Credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Creative producer is claire meyer, huh ? Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez. Marc stein is our web guy. How much mark silverman is our web guy, and the music is by scott stein. She we will be next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great better than me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Nothing. You could. Hi, are you interested in blockchain technologies and crypto currencies ? Then tune in here on talk radio. Got n y c with me, david every friday, eleven a, m twelve p, m eastern time. As we answer your questions and interview, great guests live on internet radio on building the blockchain where you can catch the blockchain revolution. Oppcoll you’re listening to the talking alternative net, are you stuck in a rut ? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down ? Hi, i’m nor in sumpter, potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business ? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates ? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large ? What about music and tv, then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dole. Check your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com. You’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator ? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness ? Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio dot. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz buy-in