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Nonprofit Radio for February 7, 2020: Neurodiversity

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My Guest:

Peter Shankman: Neurodiversity
Up to 30% of the workforce will be neurodivergent in the next 10-15 years. What is it and how can you get the competitive edge today by taking advantage of these specially-talented workers’ skills? Peter Shankman returns to share his quite personal explanation.

 

 

 

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[00:00:14.44] spk_2:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:00:16.49] spk_3:
profit radio big non profit ideas for the

[00:00:19.68] spk_2:
other 95%

[00:01:18.98] spk_3:
on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. You’d get slapped with a diagnosis of metastasize, a phobia if you missed our fourth show in the Innovators. Siri’s neural diversity up to 30% of the workforce will be neuro divergent in the next 10 to 15 years. What is it and how can you get the competitive edge today by taking advantage of these especially talented workers skills, Peter Shankman returns to the show to share his quite personal explanation. Tony Stake to planned giving for the decade were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. It’s

[00:01:19.11] spk_2:
a pleasure

[00:02:17.54] spk_3:
to welcome back to the show. Peter Shankman. The New York Times has called him a rock star who knows everything about social media and then some. He’s a five time best selling author, entrepreneur and corporate keynote speaker, focusing on customer service and the new and emerging customer and neuro atypical economy. He’s recognized worldwide for radically new ways of thinking about the customer experience, social media, PR marketing, advertising and a DHD attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. As he checks his email on his on his watch on the new neuro diverse economy, he was the founder of Haro. Help! A reporter out. He leads Shank Mines, Breakthrough Network on online mastermind of thought leaders, business experts and change makers. Peter’s got a podcast faster than normal. It’s the number one podcast on a DHD focusing on the superpowers and gif ts of having a faster than normal brain. He’s a father, a two time Ironman triathlete in a Class B licensed skydiver. He’s at shankman dot com And at Peter Shankman. Welcome back to the show.

[00:02:27.53] spk_0:
Good to be back. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:38.14] spk_3:
Thank you. Pleasure. I’m glad you’re in the neighborhood is easy because you walk over on a Not a bad winter day. Not too cold. Yeah. Yeah. Um So

[00:02:38.85] spk_2:
you’re a

[00:02:47.83] spk_3:
diversity, I guess. Obviously the place to start is to define it. You have a whole podcast about it. What are we talking about? What fits under it? No. Diversity

[00:02:58.70] spk_0:
is any kind of faster brain, any kind of different. You know, growing up a DHD didn’t exist. 80 evening, Just, uh, in the public schools in New York. It was Sit down. You dropped in the glasses, Eat. Yeah, and I have had a very large dose of that, and it

[00:03:05.17] spk_6:
caused a lot

[00:03:13.11] spk_0:
of grief. You know, I had a school was not easy for me. And it wasn’t that I didn’t want to focus. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to pay attention. It wasn’t that I enjoyed acting out in class, but I did enjoy a glass. But, you know, it was best mates. Enjoyed it very much so. And what I

[00:03:18.58] spk_6:
realized. No, I’m looking back on it. That’s exactly

[00:04:45.00] spk_0:
it was I when I could make the kids laugh. That gave me a hit of dopamine, and that gave me a hit of adrenaline that give me a hit of serotonin and all those things that the newer, diverse brain, especially the DHD brain, doesn’t make enough of. Right. Um, when you’re a DHD, you have about 25% less of these chemicals than a normal regular speed person. And so your constant looking for ways, not intentionally. Just subconsciously you’re looking for ways to replenish those. Yeah, simply the rain in to get you know what? When when a regular person says Okay, I have I have math class. I don’t like math, but I’ll get through it, you know, they sit there and they say, Okay, I gotta learn this stuff and they look at it and they focus on it. They learn it. You know, when I do something I don’t like it. It requires a commitment and a set up to get it done. You know, I don’t, um things I don’t enjoy, but I have to do is part of life. I have to, uh, uh promote myself into a different way of being to get it done. It’s why I’ll never hold a meeting. Ah, where we sit down, right? None of my one of my meetings or sit down meetings. They are either stand up or walk around meetings. I people have called me the Aaron Sorkin of meetings and that that we will do a walk and talk for 30 minutes as opposed to, you know, Let’s go. Let’s go get a coffee and we’ll clear across town and coffee. That’s something we have to walk to get our meeting them, but it’s It’s better and more conductive and more conducive than sitting there in a room. You know, if I have to meet with people who I don’t have a choice and they’re gonna force me to sit down, you know, I’ll walk beforehand. I’ll take the, you know, take the stairs. I just don’t like that, You know, I walked over here, by the way, the west on highway to go three blocks

[00:05:05.84] spk_3:
that way, west

[00:05:06.46] spk_0:
way west to come back just to get a good 20 minute hit. Okay? Don’t mean I was

[00:05:10.89] spk_3:
wondering. I was starting to feel a little nervous that I was forced to

[00:05:16.14] spk_6:
sit for an hour. Now I got Yeah, we’re scared me, you know, in hours and hours. A

[00:05:19.41] spk_0:
bit much every interview that we doing on the podcast. We’ve had over 200 of them. We’ve had a CEO’s that Tony Robbins, Seth Godin, Keith Crouch. You found a doctor sign. Dave Needleman found a JetBlue Joe dissent in front of the Spartan race. The band shined down had countless really, really smart people. And each podcast is only 20 minutes because, well, a few day and so, you know, to to to sit someone like me sitting for an hour.

[00:05:43.56] spk_6:
You know, isn’t this really the worst thing? The world?

[00:05:45.21] spk_0:
But it’s it requires a commitment requires two requires a way to make the brain work for me.

[00:05:52.02] spk_3:
And so that was the walk.

[00:05:52.95] spk_6:
That was a lot

[00:05:53.41] spk_3:
of the preparation. Exactly. Thank you for doing it.

[00:05:55.98] spk_6:
And I have No, I

[00:06:52.74] spk_0:
have I have Ah, very, you know, sort of fundamental, um, things that I have to do every day to to to simply get myself through the day to have good days. You know, every morning has to start with exercise being a single dad. I can’t get the gym every day, have a pelt on bike, and I’m on that bike. On the days that my daughter, which is a little over half the week, um, I am on that bike, usually around 4 a.m. On my bike for an hour and 1/2. It’s obviously not to lose weight, you know, if it is, I’m doing something wrong, but it’s it’s to keep the brain focus. And I’ll do, you know, 2025 miles, and I will, you know, get off the bike. And I’m just I’m I’m perfectly wired. Right. I have a phenomenal way of of sort of approaching the world, which is a lot easier and better than if I didn’t do it, you know, and I sort of went in a little muddled a little, you know, not short myself. It it’s my form of medication. And

[00:06:55.39] spk_6:
I’m not anti

[00:06:58.07] spk_0:
met. I mean, I have a prescription. I take it every once in a while. I’m not on it today. You call

[00:07:00.14] spk_3:
it your expense account.

[00:07:01.37] spk_6:
Yeah. My expense account

[00:07:18.05] spk_0:
medication. When my assistant sits me down, says if you don’t get me these receipts and find the stuff, you have to get me. You know, the next today, you know you’re not gonna get paid. Your clients are competitive. Okay? I’ll sit down and I’ll figure out, uh, you know. Okay, let’s take this pill, sit down, get the work done. In focus of Other than that, I prefer to get my my medication in more natural ways. The exercises. Skydiving, public speaking. Things

[00:07:32.39] spk_3:
like you told psychology today that to write a book? If you If you have a writing project, you book a round trip flight Asia.

[00:08:23.61] spk_0:
Three of my last five trips have three minutes. Five books have been written entirely in airplanes. The last two. I booked a flight to Asia with no real reason. Euthanasia other than to write the book. Um, I actually wrote zombie loyalists. I sat down on the plane. Um, booked. It looks like the Asia it was doing two weeks haven’t read anything. I did all the research hadn’t relating. Booked a flight to Asia road chapters one through five in the flat out landed in Tokyo. Went to lounge to the shower. Have a cup of coffee. Get back on the same plane. Same seat two hours later. You’re not stay overnight, even stay the night. Wrote chapter 6 to 10 on the flight home. And, um, you know, went, uh, they got held up by, um, homeland Security for two hours, wondering why I was nature for 90 minutes and never actually immigration something that proved interesting, but it sure was running a bucket.

[00:08:25.53] spk_2:
Now I would say that That sounds to me like incredible focus.

[00:08:45.92] spk_0:
Well, the beauty of a DHD is that you can hyper focus. You can hyper focus. If you like to do something, you can sit down. And just if the situation is right and you’ve given yourself the right of it, sit down and you know I’ll put together a 1600 piece Lego Lego set in three hours. Yeah, I love doing it, but you know, if it’s something I don’t like doing, you have to. I have to make it work and it’s It’s not easy

[00:09:00.19] spk_3:
now. Five years ago you were You were with us was roughly five years. We’re talking about zombie loyalists. Um, uh, do you I gotta just focus back. Or do you still you still in Morton’s? I’m

[00:09:05.15] spk_6:
still martignetti Angeles way just

[00:09:13.73] spk_3:
played. We just played the show like, four or five weeks ago so listeners will know that it’s a story in Newark Airport. Yeah,

[00:09:47.83] spk_0:
so fan of Morton’s, you know, still go there quite frequently. It’s it’s phenomenal steaks. They still treat me very well. Um, I It’s funny over time that people still tell that story and and it’s still you know, not so much a customer is its customer experience. Not. It’s not PR. It’s not. Social media is custom experience, right? They were a little bit out of their way, and that’s not their job. The job isn’t going to take the airport. The job is that clear right? Have a great time. And so so So they’re still very good at that. Have they gotten bad at that? You know, they were bought by a company called Landry’s, and Landers owns them now. And

[00:09:52.37] spk_3:
Texas? Yeah, let’s take Texas

[00:09:54.64] spk_0:
unfortunate. Unfortunately, Andrews is still very, very, very big on customer experience, so it’s still a good place to

[00:10:39.04] spk_3:
go. Okay, let me take our first break. Wegner-C.P.As. You know, they go beyond the numbers. They’ve got videos. Do you have immigrant employees? They’ve got I nine tips. They’ve got high impact grant proposals. Also sexual harassment, awareness, video and others. You’ll find them at wegner-C.P.As dot com. Quick resource is and recorded events. Now let’s go back to neuro diversity. Peter Shankman checks is, uh, Texas. Take it. Work email. He does, uh, taking advantage of Ah, 32nd. I didn’t tell you was only 32nd break. Each break is doing well. The next one’s about a minute and 1/2. I

[00:10:41.29] spk_0:
could write a book,

[00:10:48.14] spk_3:
book your flight. All right. You could book the flight to write the book. Um, now you mentioned single Dad. Something has happened in the past five years. I’m sorry about

[00:10:51.18] spk_6:
that. I think things happen

[00:10:52.78] spk_3:
for a reason.

[00:11:05.33] spk_0:
The universe in its one told the way it should. I’m still very good friends of my ex. We have a great relationship, but I don’t have Thio. You know, they’re just certain times that you realize that that, um, the universe unfolds like Is that the way it should? And so I love being a single bad. My daughter is six and 1/2. Um, God help you if you forget the half. Um, she’s not just six, uh, give Aquino yesterday the Lego. And so when she comes home tonight, there are 15 new Lego sets.

[00:11:23.07] spk_3:
That school was a three hour keynote where

[00:11:27.52] spk_6:
it was 45 minutes. But it was very cool to hang out there

[00:11:29.40] spk_3:
and it couldn’t be done.

[00:12:51.12] spk_0:
I have. I am now the one of the first owners of the new international Space station Lego, which doesn’t hit stores. You’re worried. You’re very excited about that. So now it’s fun. It’s, uh, you know, I I love, try to explain. It was fun to watch her. Don’t explain what Daddy does for a living. Daddy talks to people, you know, It’s pretty much what I do. Yeah. On. You know how me since it in office of Daddy talks to people I like. I like my title better, but, you know, it’s it’s fun. It’s It does provides some interesting, uh, logistical, uh, intrigue. You know, I I know all single parents record. A lot of my travel is international. Um, I you know, I give speeches over the world and, you know, a couple of scholars and Asia. I gave a talk, um, on a Friday. And so I left Wednesday morning, uh, dropped my daughter off at school Wednesday morning. Went right to work. Um, booked a flight. Uh, are you boarded? A flight Wednesday at around 11 to Tokyo landed Thursday night at 7 p.m. Um, spoke. You know, went to those health, got some sleep, woke up, went to the gym, spoke at 9 a.m. Friday morning I was taken to the airport, got on a 2 p.m. Flight are four PM flight from Tokyo on Friday afternoon and landed in New York with time change at 4 p.m. Find infinite. And when I’m picking my daughter and you know, I was a zombie, but I didn’t miss a night with her. You know, it’s tough, but it’s a lot of fun. And, um, I couldn’t imagine, you know, doing anything

[00:13:05.30] spk_3:
Excellent. What else besides a DHD falls under no

[00:13:09.50] spk_6:
diversity in any kind

[00:13:39.03] spk_0:
of brain that is different than what we consider normal. So, you know, we’re looking at a Ph. D a d d. Autism executive function spending on the spectrum Asperger’s things like that and what we’re finding, and what studies have finding is that, um when creative people who are and almost everyone with a no diversion brain is creative, when these great people are given the ability to work in a way that works for them, right? Productivity goes to the roof

[00:13:40.18] spk_6:
dyslexia, just like she is

[00:13:46.11] spk_0:
included as well. And productivity goes through the roof. And, um, but you have to understand how people work, not everyone.

[00:13:50.14] spk_4:
Um uh

[00:14:12.08] spk_0:
works the same way, you know, And and, uh, the premise of we all have to get in at 9 a.m. And punch in and do that, you know, is really a thing of the past. And what companies are finding is if they allow their employees to, um, work the way that works for them. Company productivity goes to the roof. We’ve seen that countless times, over and over and over again. You know, you look at a company that has these rigid rules, which is a company that allows people to do work the way they want to and the people who do it the way they want to tend to the company, send a much more productive and generate more revenue unless cost.

[00:14:27.58] spk_3:
Okay. And this includes the newer, diverse community

[00:16:30.51] spk_0:
don’t know much about. You know, you’re looking at a workforce 25 to 30% want provide motivation. 25 to 30% of the workforce is gonna be no divers. And these are the people who are your creative right. These the people who are coming up with new ways to work new ideas, these the ones who are creating who are discovering all these sort of things. Good friend of mine is a PhD candidate at Harvard, and, um, she is very much engaged, and she, you know, they work in a lab where she she’s a PhD in the something with skin, huh? I’m totally spacing, not dermatology. I’m spacing. Basically, she she works with skin cells, and, um, you know, so she says a lot of time on her feet in a lab, you know, mixing skin cells, whatever does they dio? And then, um, she has to go back and analyze the data and what she does when she analyzed that data, she actually goes into a conference room that no one is in, and we’ll sit with her charts and her laptop in her, grafts on that and do the same thing that she could do at her desk. But her desk is an open floor plan. And even with headphones, she sees people at the corner of her eye walking around this and that and a distraction. And so she goes into a place where she can work and she will be 10 times productive and, you know, 1/3 of the time it would take her to do it or to other people to do it. So you know. And she explained that to her. Her, um, director, You know the labs. Look, look, just trust me this I work better this way. And sure enough, she does. You know, Andi, the her output is is very, very high. Um, but she has to be in that in that zone, you know, that’s my zona focuses an airplane. You know, it’s it’s or, you know, it’s also places where, um I’m able to get the dope mean that I need and then utilize it. So the thing about don’t mean is that once you get a huge hit of it, it doesn’t just go away. All right? You have to disperse it out over several hours has dissipate. So when I go to the drop zone upstate, I’ll take my my parachute, my rig, and I’ll do a jump and I land and I’ll throw my gear in the corner. Tony, re pack up some of you in the corner. Pull up my laptop, right. 10,000 words. Really? Oh, yeah, in like an hour. Yeah,

[00:16:36.85] spk_6:
I after, right after the jump. So you

[00:16:39.50] spk_3:
somewhere and then you know,

[00:16:40.82] spk_0:
I I land at the drop zone carrying my gear into the hangar. I throw in a corner, I pull out my laptop just right of the

[00:16:47.93] spk_3:
drops. Are you already at a building? And you start writing? Yeah,

[00:16:50.30] spk_0:
and I’m sitting up on the floor of my lifetime. I was right because, you know, that’s where I’m just so full of those chemicals. It’s like it’s like it’s like I’ve just done a lot of coke, You know it and it’s great. It’s healthy, a lot healthier than doing a lot of guys suppose for sure. But you know it. You don’t just get rid of it

[00:17:06.28] spk_6:
and all those chemicals in there, because the goal is to

[00:17:08.25] spk_0:
keep you alive. When you’re in the air, right, you’re don’t means you’re turning your gentle and they all are front and center when you’re jumping. Because for someone like me, you know, totally imagine myself without those chemicals.

[00:17:18.02] spk_6:
Okay, out the plane I gotta pull my parachute to look at the sun’s all shiny,

[00:18:18.71] spk_0:
you know? So so the chemicals are there to prevent that on, but when you land, they don’t just go away. You have to dissipate them of several hours. So for me, you know, that’s when I get somebody’s work done. That’s a great man. That’s great story works. It works really well, it’s Ah, it’s Ah, you know, you know where you are. Some people, it’s a run. I’ve done 5 10 mile runs and I’ll come back and be so wired that also dental work as well. Um, I’ll take a shower first, but, you know, it is it does. You’ve got to figure out what works for you and what works for employees, you know? And if you give your employees that ability to do that to to to work in such a way where they can, um, be most beneficial to themselves. You know, that’s the biggest thing we don’t seem to realize is that you know, this whole mentality of all work, work, work. Now, you know, no sleep work is bullshit. You know, if you don’t know how to take care of yourself first, right? If you’re not putting yourself first, if you’re not putting self care first, you know, if you have some of these entrepreneurs out there, you

[00:18:20.40] spk_6:
know, if you have, you know, work for 12 hours. Then you come home. We have to feed your kid if you only have four hours of sleep. Well, sleep two of them. And what you just told someone kill themselves. What is wrong with

[00:18:28.12] spk_0:
you? You gotta focus on yourself. You take care yourself. Self care is massive. Important exercise. Eat a goddamn vegetable. Everyone’s don’t write. Not everything has to come in a burger or a bun.

[00:18:37.93] spk_3:
Yeah, take care of yourself. Then you can

[00:18:41.30] spk_6:
take the oxygen mask their

[00:18:42.14] spk_3:
caregivers for auction parents. Yeah. All right. So how are we doing? Oh, I’m not. I’m too far from my Oh, I was worried about him. I’m too far. Okay, Um,

[00:18:54.34] spk_0:
no one’s ever told me I’m too soft. Uh, the letter.

[00:19:05.43] spk_3:
Let’s Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Beautiful segue way. So let’s talk about employers. Let’s start with the, um, the recruiting. It’s gotta be different than sitting for an interview for 30 or 40 minutes. But

[00:19:10.91] spk_0:
there’s a man who just told me I have to sit here for an hour,

[00:19:12.81] spk_6:
but I would argue that it does. It does have to be fun. Interview. Here’s the thing

[00:19:24.68] spk_0:
about what has to be different you know, you have to understand that the people you’re hiring again, they come from them. 50 years ago, any kind of disability was not talked about, right? I love that episode of Mad Men Where the guys a raging alcoholic and

[00:19:31.97] spk_6:
says, You know, you go away, we’ll tell people you’re on

[00:19:33.77] spk_0:
your own. You know, in a client leave for three months ago

[00:19:37.06] spk_6:
upstate you come back a new

[00:19:39.75] spk_0:
man, you know, telling people your client leave for three months. Three

[00:19:42.41] spk_6:
hysterical people half the shorts I own probably state

[00:19:49.75] spk_0:
that I’m a th day. My favorite shirt is a DHD in the in the font of a C D c h d. I’m on a highway to oh, squirrel, you know? And so it’s it’s it’s that waiter,

[00:19:56.45] spk_3:
huh? Wait, what?

[00:19:57.03] spk_0:
Highway to squirrel? Squirrel. And so, you know, I love that I love that premise and and the fact that we are sort of out there and talking about it and proud of how our brains work, you know? So

[00:20:08.74] spk_6:
before you can even start recruiting,

[00:20:36.83] spk_0:
you have to. As a company, you have to understand that you have to own that, you know, and make your workforce a place where the neuro diverse want to work because they have the opportunity to go anywhere now and, you know, much like it comes down. University. Essentially what back in the nineties and earlytwo thousands, diversity was was skin color, and then it became sexual orientation, you know, and and now it has to become no diversity.

[00:20:37.64] spk_3:
Is this not covered under the Americans disability? That it is now is

[00:22:07.53] spk_0:
not so you know it. Perhaps it will be, but the you know and I’m not a lawyer any like that. But the premise have, Doctor, there’s say that more often, but the premises is that you have to. I understand that if you’re hiring, you know, people need to work in a certain way, and if you are willing to give them the opportunity, they will impress you. Every single time. I had a I had a I was doing consulting gig for a company big fast food chain, didn’t know them, and, um, they were trying to figure out how to get had a cater to you, the New Rivers market and, you know, let’s go and let’s have lunch at your restaurants. We went into one of the restaurants 135 items on the menu in front over ads interspersed with commercials on a digital board. I want to blow my brains out, you know, walk into you. So I said, OK, let’s go. Someone’s on the West Coast. Let’s go somewhere else now and let’s walk down the street to in and out Burger, where the menu is hamburger cheeseburger fries shake, right? You see the Peacefulness here? The com That’s the one you know you have to understand. Sometimes the concept of choice is death sentence, right? And so how can you give your employees that which they need? I joke if I’m dating someone Are you know, said this summer my wife the time she never really understood it. But the premises, like, don’t. If we’re gonna go out for dinner and I ask you what you want, don’t

[00:22:10.92] spk_6:
say Oh, just pick something.

[00:22:22.63] spk_0:
Anything’s fine because you will wind up trying monkey brains. You know, I guarantee that you know, instead say, I’m feeling either Italian or Chinese. Great. You’ve just given me two options. I will pick one, right, But don’t Don’t tell me or whatever you want because that’s

[00:22:25.31] spk_3:
not walk up and down Ninth at

[00:22:26.63] spk_6:
45 minutes. Exactly.

[00:22:39.01] spk_0:
Zimbabwe. Exactly. So be aware of of how you’re working with these people talking to them how you were doing with them. You know, for instance, I have a lot of clients who are their famous

[00:22:41.26] spk_6:
catchphrase. I just get anyone

[00:22:58.25] spk_0:
can get it. No rush. Well, that’s that’s That’s not okay, because I will never get it, because you’ll be the most important thing on my plate until the next important thing. So I require every client to give me a deadline. I require my assistant to get me a deadline for every single thing I have to do. Actually, I need

[00:23:02.34] spk_6:
this Thursday, 3 p.m. Okay, if I know is there’s a big BM. I’m gonna get it done. If you tell me you can get it whenever, okay, I’ll get to it. And you’re

[00:23:05.32] spk_0:
never getting that thing. So you have to give me a deadline

[00:23:08.64] spk_3:
on part of this preparation is sensitizing the other employees in the in the office, in the in the organization as to what? What you expect.

[00:23:18.80] spk_6:
Yeah, you know, it’s not. It’s not like you need to widen

[00:23:44.23] spk_0:
your doors because you bring in a wheelchair, right? It’s very, very subtle. A lot of times, Um, I have a friend of mine who has a sign on on his because he’s standing there and he’s sitting in his desk and it’s an open floor plan. She has headphones on, and he has a sign that he puts on his back. Um, you may bother me. You may not bother me, right? And if it says you may not bother me, people know to email him or leave him alone. If it says you may bother me, he’s working on something he can’t be interrupted for because thing about that is that the way the brain works is that every time you get disrupted and that could be a something simple text or email or ding from your devices. Yeah, the second you get that ding, it takes roughly 24 minutes to get back into a level of what’s called deep work. Cal Cal Norris wrote a book called Deport 24 minutes, 24 minutes. So

[00:24:08.58] spk_6:
if you get two e mails a day or two miles an hour,

[00:24:16.95] spk_0:
you’re getting nothing done. E mean slack has destroyed more productivity than an atom bomb. It is amazing how many

[00:24:20.88] spk_6:
we love slack. We use a religiously well,

[00:24:22.53] spk_0:
your productivity is going down and down. You know, my ex ex

[00:24:27.15] spk_6:
wife uses that productivity tool. It’s not. I watched her productivity goto hell when she’s using it, because she she she sits there and she she gets a response. Delicate responded right away. Well, now she’s just

[00:24:37.14] spk_0:
completely lost the train of thought 40 was working on, and it’s not gonna come back. And

[00:24:40.84] spk_6:
next thing you know, it’s two hours later. It’s

[00:24:59.85] spk_0:
lunchtime, you know, again, that’s my yet. Ah, lot of times no diverse people are gonna put rules in the place that work for them. You know, I have meetings on one day a week and they’re walking meetings like I said, but I don’t have meetings every single day. You will never catch me for a random coffee, right? You’re not gonna have coffee at 2 p.m. On Wednesday because that means I have to leave. I have to get ready to leave around one. I have to leave my apartment. 1 15 I have in my office. I have to get their meat. You it to meet from 2 to 30 to 45 Walk back to my office, Sit back down, get to It’s

[00:25:18.05] spk_6:
not gonna happen, you know, instead of going to meet you, now let’s do 15

[00:25:18.83] spk_0:
miles will head home. I’ll head home. I’m not gonna be productive at home. And I would be in the office, so we’re not gonna be like that. You wanna meet

[00:25:23.42] spk_6:
with me? Let’s meet at six a.

[00:25:27.28] spk_0:
M. For coffee or spin class or run in the park or something like that. And I will

[00:25:30.07] spk_6:
do that

[00:26:07.35] spk_0:
with you on that. It’s actually wonderfully. Ah, Darwinist IQ is well in that Those rules. If you want to meet me, we will meet before 6 a.m. for coffee for a workout. I’ll even take you to cryotherapy. Um, the greatest thing about that is that it Dominus tickly eliminates 97% of the people who said they don’t have meetings with me because if they can’t get up, if it’s not worth it to them to get up it 5 a.m. For him to meet with me. Whatever chance I don’t work with him. And so it eliminates the majority of people out there, which is really coming in the day. I hate people. An

[00:26:08.82] spk_2:
enormous part of

[00:26:10.89] spk_6:
less People have to deal with them.

[00:26:17.99] spk_3:
That’s why they’re spitting them to death and offering quite exactly cryotherapy on your terms.

[00:26:20.59] spk_2:
So a lot. So I understand.

[00:26:22.04] spk_3:
A lot of it is You have to recognize for yourself what helps

[00:26:25.70] spk_6:
is the thing you ever do you understand what works for you, right? I

[00:27:05.54] spk_0:
mean, you know, I rarely drink. I’m not gonna say I never drink occasionally, everybody, it’s very rare because I don’t have one drink. You know, I have six drinks because they’re there, and it’s very easy not to have that first drink. It’s after the first drink, but it’s very hard to sing the second time. Yeah, and so I joke. I have two speeds and only to speed. They have NAMA stay and I’ll cut a bitch and there’s no middle ground there. There’s no I don’t have a middle ground, you know You’re not going to see me. Okay, I’ll have What would Leo McGarry say in the West Wing is I don’t understand people who leave wine. You have a glass and leave half a glass. One of table. What’s wrong with him, right? Why wouldn’t you want that all the time? And it’s hundreds of true. And so what I find is that it’s much easier for me to have a club soda and not have that first drink. Um, because also, I have a drink and I have five drinks. Then

[00:27:17.15] spk_6:
I go home. I’m not drunk.

[00:27:18.84] spk_0:
I’m not, you know, slurring my words. I’m not, uh, pillaging villages. Really that. But I go to bed a little later than I want to. I wake up a little later. I might not have time for the gym when I’m trying to work out. Then my day is less than you know. And that’s why I get into that system in the first place.

[00:27:34.04] spk_3:
So, uh, let’s take our like, our second break, which is, uh, about a minute and 1/2.

[00:27:39.27] spk_6:
I’m getting water. Water?

[00:29:30.84] spk_3:
Yes, absolutely. Um, quote We’ve been very happy with Cougar Mountain software. It’s rare to encounter a problem with it, but they are always there to help walk. Be through it. Well, end quote I paraphrase a couple of words, but nothing substantive, certainly from Sally Hancock in Altuna, Pennsylvania. More raves about the customer service at Cougar Mountain Accounting Software. They have a free 60 day trial for listeners. It’s on the listener landing page, which is at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant now. Time for Tony’s Take Two. Your Decade Plan for planned giving. I put a good amount of thought into if, where you could be by 2029 if you start your plans giving fundraising program in 2020. Don’t just think of a year long plan. Think of the decade. In 10 years you’ll be You’ll have an enormous amount of people in your recognition society, which means you’ve got enormous amount of planned GIF ts. You’ll be recognizing revenue from the from the program. You’ll be offering a lot of different vehicles way beyond just charitable bequests, which is a place to start. Um, you might even by that time have either have or have the evidence that you should have a full time director of planned giving you can be. You could be very far along and planned giving fundraising by 2029 if you start in 2020 and I lay out a decade long plan in the video, which is your That’s it. You’re decade plan for planned giving, and it is at Tony’s take to know that is Tony’s take to the video. Is that tony-martignetti dot com? Now let’s go back to Nora. Diversity

[00:29:32.99] spk_0:
the pill because I have some

[00:29:34.53] spk_2:
I’m feeling. No, you said you make it sound. Not so bad I joined

[00:29:46.79] spk_3:
the club, Our fourth entry in The Innovators, Siri’s with Peter Shankman about emerging neural divergent economies on the workforce. Um,

[00:29:49.32] spk_2:
yeah, no, I mean when you have it

[00:29:50.43] spk_3:
under management and you and you have figured out what?

[00:29:53.50] spk_6:
Well, that’s it. You’re out. There was a scientist

[00:30:03.92] spk_0:
once who came out, but don’t don’t. Scientists came up with this term of somebody call type type T and there’s tape, Tea party, you know, you you take These are type B’s in the tape tee, and then he divided that in taped a pilot of type B negative type B

[00:30:11.87] spk_6:
positive. Basically type tease

[00:30:23.70] spk_0:
the ones who take risks. They like to you know, they’re a DHD. Their brains produce less mon ami inhibitors than no people motto. Motto mean mono amine ox. Today’s inhibitors Okay, I type probably totally butchered, butchered that term. But again, that’s why I’m not a doctor.

[00:30:30.06] spk_6:
So the top, that’s the stuff that makes us

[00:33:00.44] spk_0:
don’t mean right. And if you have, people like me have 25% less of them. That’s why we do things to you know, that’s what we got. That’s why we did. But there’s two into this scientist, uh, theorized that there were two types of type t type B positive and type B negative in Tempe. Positive people who get that I don’t mean and the adrenaline that search on those modeling oxidase inhibitors in positive ways. Right? So I speak publicly, you know, be on stage in front of 10,000 people. I’m high as a kite. Its greatest feeling in the world. Ah, skydiving exercise. Whatever. The guest of big, there are people who get those negative ways. Um, you know, crime, uh, drugs, whatever. And you know that how people you know, that there’s an estimation that 75% or higher number of people in prison number of males in prison are undiagnosed. 80 80 80. You know, it makes perfect sense, right? You’re You’re bored. You’re not excited. You need something So let’s, you know, get steal this car through bad bag, right? And so So it comes down to sort of what you can learn about yourself. You know, looking back on my schooling and realizing I mean, I I teach. Sometimes the teachers would talk about me and they couldn’t believed they were talking about the same kid because my English teacher would have nothing but rave reviews about how amazing I wasn’t how much how attended. I wasn’t how focused I wasn’t how much I look, how great of a writer I was. Mad teachers be like It’s not the same kid. He’s nothing but a distraction. He causes he, you know it needs to sit. Tony bugs the whole class. He doesn’t, you know. And it was like they were literally that. How are you talking about the same child? Campy. And it’s true, because in English, I was, you know, put put, uh, God, what’s the book? Black Boy by Richard Wright. You to read the freshman in high school, and I was just enthralled with that book I read, apparently every year. Now it’s such an amazing book, and you know, I remember reading, getting to Shakespeare and and pirate and just, you know, being they have to have to tap me on the shoulder to get me out of class because my next class, because I just be so enthralled. But I was sitting in math class, you know, I learned that you could sink your watch to the the Bell system. And so, you know, I’d be in math class. And then just for fun, just to mess with a teacher, I’d go 54321 and the Bellagio off right at a job, drove the teacher

[00:33:11.47] spk_6:
crazy. But I love

[00:33:34.06] spk_0:
that it comes down to understanding that some things you love, some things you don’t How do you change your brain so that the things you don’t love you can still do well. And that’s what um, uh, employers. I need to learn as well. Yeah, that not everything their employees do their employees and love. So how can you give them an environment that benefits them with stuff that they don’t love? They could still get through and do well

[00:33:49.62] spk_3:
first. Thank you for talking directly to the listeners who are neural diverse. More importantly, you’re motivating the individuals to listen. You want to talk about the organization,

[00:34:11.07] spk_0:
listeners. Kids are important as well, because right now they’re our listeners. Your show Who’s Children have just been diagnosed, like today or last week or whatever with a d d or a D h d. And they’re freaking out. The parents are freaking out more than the kids. And so to the parents, I tell you right now that your kid is not broken, pardon my French kids fucking awesome and and And your kid is gonna change the world. And you know, you don’t sit there and say, Oh my God, he’s not like everyone else. Be thankful he’s not like everyone else. Because if I was like everyone else, we wouldn’t be sitting here. I wouldn’t be on this on your show. I’d be working in an office somewhere and pretty miserable,

[00:34:25.86] spk_3:
Miserable. There wouldn’t be. Would not have been a hard right.

[00:34:27.73] spk_0:
No, that wouldn’t be Harold or anything like that. So, you know, I am so thankful every day on it again, growing up, a lot of it sucks because we didn’t know what it was. You know? I remember my dad.

[00:34:37.16] spk_6:
Why can’t you just listen in. Glad who knew? You know, I couldn’t. And and fortunately,

[00:34:49.03] spk_0:
we have much more knowledge now of you know what goes on with this button? Yeah. Thio To be able to have a different brand. I’m thankful for that every single day.

[00:35:06.74] spk_3:
So let’s talk organizationally. What can we do? Two way talk some about the preparation but the interviewing getting encouraging, people Thio come on. And proving to the individual that this is a place where you want to work

[00:35:47.34] spk_0:
Explain that you’re you’re company. Everyone says their companies different. Show that your company is different. You know, they’re some companies have completely outlawed meetings, right? Completely banned sitting in the conference room there cos a band power point. And I think that’s pretty the best thing you could possibly do, right? Who the hell wants to sit in the meeting for two hours looking at slide after slide and listen to a person explain those slides. You know, I’d rather jump out the window. So what can you do for your, um, for your employees to show not just tell, but to show that it’s a positive place to work. Right. Um, are you gonna let your

[00:35:48.57] spk_6:
and Santos about Oh, you’re going from home. Well, that’s great,

[00:35:51.27] spk_0:
But are you gonna give them the tools to do that right? It’s one

[00:35:54.95] spk_6:
thing to say Sure work from home. But home might not be the best

[00:36:15.13] spk_0:
place for people, either. I have a friend of mine who loves working. He lives in California and he loves working from parks, right? He’ll go like a national park and he’ll bring. He’ll have a wireless connection satellite, whatever Internet and, uh, you know, climb a mountain. And I said, the top of mountains work for, like, eight hours. Expect other people to go upto. You know, what’s

[00:36:17.16] spk_6:
the meaning of life? Nothing. But he said,

[00:36:18.60] spk_0:
their legs crossed with his laptop, getting work done, breathing fresh air. And he

[00:36:26.44] spk_6:
loves it. He’s so ridiculously productive, right? Enormously productive. Unbelievable. Yeah, he’s he’s returning. And he’s creative creative director Chris China, and he’s returning art

[00:36:31.45] spk_0:
artwork to the client that you know would blow you away. And he’s doing it because he’s in his his happy place.

[00:36:46.89] spk_3:
Yeah, um, and then and keeping people too, You know, you’ve shown them at the at the outset that this is a place that they want to be, um,

[00:36:47.45] spk_6:
keeping people in them. It’s important you have to be able to think about

[00:37:01.21] spk_0:
no diversity is that it’s fluid, right? It’s not If you try to grab on to it, you know, like a newtonian fluid that if you put your hand on very slowly, you can movie, handle the bottom. If you hit it really hard, you can’t even get 1/4 inch down, right? Basically, take some water and corn starch and mix them up, and you can create non Newtonian fluids. And the A

[00:37:11.78] spk_6:
D. H. D.

[00:37:12.19] spk_0:
And new diversity is similar in that if you

[00:37:14.08] spk_6:
try to hold on

[00:37:42.29] spk_0:
to it, you try to position them in one path where they’re not allowed to move. You’re gonna find resistance, right? But if you let it flow through you and and you understand, that’s a fluid system that does have to move, and that change has to happen and you have to be able to adapt to that, you’ll be a lot better. Offices, organization, you know, they’re gonna They’re gonna be times where, um, there are days when I wake up and no amount of exercise is going to get my focus on track for whatever reason, right, mate, And sleep well, whatever. But I’m not. I’m just not gonna be productive. And I know that. And I will tell Megan I’m like, Okay, you know what? I’m having a day Cancel my meetings. I’m going off the drop zone or I’m going swimming on workout.

[00:37:55.88] spk_3:
It’s that last minute.

[00:37:57.02] spk_6:
Yeah, and And I’ll feel it. I wake up thinking about

[00:37:59.93] spk_0:
some things off today, and

[00:38:02.16] spk_6:
that’s an end. It doesn’t happen. Rarely happens. But it does happen. Right? Um, it happened

[00:38:06.33] spk_0:
like, I think less and I was like, October. Um, and

[00:38:09.01] spk_6:
I felt that I just woke up like you know what? I

[00:38:17.46] spk_0:
got nothing. I got nothing here. Megan, I have a meeting. 11. Do me a favor and cancel it. I’m going to the gym. Like what? It was like I don’t need a day. So I went to the gym. I did like

[00:38:20.47] spk_3:
she knows you by now.

[00:38:21.22] spk_6:
Yeah, I did like 10,000

[00:38:36.45] spk_0:
meter swim. Ah, I did like half an hour on the rower. You know, I did the bike, and I just That was what I could do right. And so, as an employer, you need to understand that there are gonna be times when you’re, you know, you call the mental health days in a mental health day. Well, that’s real, you know, and a Zen employer, you have to be flexible enough to allow for that. And the

[00:38:43.91] spk_6:
nice thing is, is

[00:38:52.07] spk_0:
that when you do allow for it, you’ll find that your employees not, um they don’t take advantage of you. They might take advantage of the health day every once in a while and

[00:38:55.30] spk_6:
say no, any today I’ll take a day.

[00:39:05.97] spk_0:
But when you give that more studies and more studies have shown that when you give them the ability to make their own choices right, they’re not gonna screw you more often than not, the non chemistry

[00:39:08.44] spk_3:
something you alluded to is, you know, like the typical career path they your neuro diverse, may not necessarily want to be promoted,

[00:39:21.62] spk_0:
right. There are people who are in positions that they’re really great and they want to stay there. Um, you

[00:39:22.06] spk_6:
know, it’s something else

[00:39:32.00] spk_0:
to consider for millions of years of evolution. Millions years, we hunted, and that’s how we got our food and we would run after a saber toothed tiger. And if we killed it, we’d eat. And if we didn’t kill it, we wouldn’t eat. We’d starve. And so we became very adept at short bursts of energy and short bursts of focus Right where we kill this tiger. And then

[00:39:47.20] spk_6:
we have, like, three or four days just,

[00:39:48.13] spk_0:
you know, eat. And she’ll whenever and there’s the food started to disappear Go battle. It would hunt

[00:39:53.42] spk_6:
again. Then we discovered

[00:39:57.29] spk_0:
agriculture. But 1100 years ago, and we just get the hell

[00:39:58.12] spk_6:
out 100

[00:40:11.87] spk_0:
years in the history of our existence is, you know, less than the width of a period on a full novel. And so, if you have to imagine, if you’re thinking about, um why why are we just gonna go?

[00:40:13.48] spk_6:
Why are we discovering it now? Are we seeing so

[00:41:10.30] spk_0:
much more of it now? Because you know what to look for. It’s always been there looking Einstein. Divinci Minutes, people, classic eighties. You no question about it. Um what? We understand what to look for now, you know, And in the course of human history were so far, are so so just at the nano pubescent era. We haven’t even started. You know, if you go down the line of of human growth, we’re just now barely beginning to crack the surfaces to what’s out there. And so, you know, if you well, we’ve had a 100 years of farming that’s nothing. In the in the history of the grand scheme of time, there’s nothing. And so you’re taking millions of people who grew their entire lineage, You know, that the entire human race was based on going out hunting, farming, you know, hunting. Then all of

[00:41:11.11] spk_6:
a sudden, the last second you change. Okay, Don’t hunt. Now sit down and farm.

[00:41:39.01] spk_0:
Well, you know, we’re gonna get fat, and we have a lot of energy that we need to dispel some other way, and we’re not going to able to do that. Lookit, lookit, history. Look. Att. The Romans look at the Europe in the 12th century, the only people who are fat with the kings because everyone else was working and they were out there. No hunting and gathering of it, you know, And then over time, what we’re seeing now is, you know, it’s so much the

[00:41:42.59] spk_6:
other thing was also Is

[00:42:00.28] spk_0:
that the rise of of bad for us? Food flat. But a word is playoff proliferating. Um, you don’t see that in ah, in countries that have less fast food options.

[00:42:01.44] spk_3:
Although we’ve us has done a good

[00:42:25.06] spk_0:
job, We explored everywhere. Yeah, bad food. You see all the stomachs growing in other countries as well. But, you know, we didn’t have that 1000 years ago. Either we had healthy. You know, I joked that I tried to eat food that if my grandmother back when she was, like, six years old in 1980 whatever. If she wouldn’t have recognized his food, I’ll try not to eat it right. You know, she look a cheating with, you know, but she understands the potato is she understands what? You know Broccoli. Is

[00:42:34.15] spk_3:
that it? Michael Pollan. Did you steal that from? You have only eat foods that your grandmother would recognize.

[00:42:42.50] spk_6:
I know where I got it. Had at first been saying that for years that the two things I say is that and then shop the edges of the supermarket because the outside of the supermarkets world healthy food is the crab is on the inside, right?

[00:42:48.41] spk_2:
What? We still have. All

[00:42:49.25] spk_3:
right. Let me take our last break.

[00:42:50.64] spk_6:
Well, I’m faster than normal. That’s why. That’s why. Good. That’s what happened.

[00:42:57.96] spk_3:
Um, I’m worried. About what? I should let you go. I mean, I

[00:42:59.60] spk_6:
know I’m just one of them entering tax. I

[00:43:57.80] spk_3:
don’t want you to leave. All right. Time last break turned to communications. Did you ever wonder how some nonprofits always get mentioned in the news and it pisses you off? It’s because they well, you could You could use Harrow. You could actually lose Harrow. Help a reporter out. You could also, uh, try to build long term relationships with the journalists that matter to you and turn to can help you do that as well. Their former journalists, including from the Chronicle of Philanthropy, our community. So to build a long term sort of sustaining relationships so that you get great coverage when it matters. When the news breaks and you want to be quoted, you’re the expert. That’s the kind of relationship you want there, a turn hyphen to dot CEO, and we do have butt loads. More time for new road diversity. And Peter Shankman, uh, I’m gonna throw it to you for, you know what else? What else would you like? Nonprofit organizations to know about neural diversity. We certainly talked About what? What the community brings

[00:44:06.90] spk_6:
one of the cool things look

[00:44:15.87] spk_0:
spring about. No diversity, I think, is that we tend to come up with ridiculously brilliant ideas that when you

[00:44:17.37] spk_2:
hear them

[00:44:27.09] spk_0:
for the first time, you might not think of as brilliant. You might think that, you know, we just told you that we’re a spotted owl. Um, but that’s the fun of it is our brains work a little differently and we think, sort of not outside the box. You think outside the park really were in an entirely different world? And one of things that I’ve seen happen many a time is You know, I remember this used to happen all the time with my ex

[00:44:41.48] spk_6:
wife. I I had this great idea, and

[00:44:45.49] spk_0:
you get Okay, here we go, you know, and

[00:44:46.28] spk_6:
she wasn’t angry. Just like Okay, where is this

[00:44:49.66] spk_0:
gonna wind us up? You know, we’re gonna be in Thailand by tomorrow. How do you know what’s gonna happen? Ideas before?

[00:44:53.92] spk_6:
Yeah, and and but the thing is Is

[00:45:21.78] spk_0:
that you know, that concept of great ideas led me to start Harrow, right? It it led me to start a podcast. Everything I’ve done has come from that, because when you’re when you’re near a diverse, you’re so used to getting t getting those weird looking people that you don’t give a shit anymore. And so you have 99.9% of brilliant ideas in this world have never actually been implemented because people are afraid of whether it was gonna pay. It

[00:45:23.19] spk_6:
kills me, right? Like the highway is littered

[00:45:38.16] spk_0:
with brilliant ideas that never saw the light of day because someone was afraid of what people might think When you’re a DHD or no divers, you spent your life with people looking at you and mocking you and talking. So you

[00:45:40.04] spk_6:
just don’t give a shit anymore, so I’ll get out there. Hey, here’s a crazy It may work. It may not have had just many failures have had successes,

[00:45:45.28] spk_0:
but when I’ve had the successes, they’ve really blown up.

[00:46:07.36] spk_3:
Okay, great creativity. And, uh, there’s there’s a very good article that I read preparing from Harvard Business Review it Zo listeners, you might be interested. It’s a May June 2017 issue of Harvard Business Review on I Think It’s called Neuro Diversity. And then there’s you also find Peter Shankman and interviewed by a psychology today. You were profiled,

[00:46:12.75] spk_6:
you know. But that’s the funny thing. Is some problem Mexico today and then I’m also

[00:46:18.98] spk_0:
profiled by, um, by traffic magazine. Right.

[00:46:21.01] spk_6:
And if you look at me, you know damn well that I’m not profit by Travel magazine for like winning traffic runs right? I’m profile, but Athlete magazine is

[00:46:32.88] spk_0:
one of the funniest people in traffic. Because I wrote it, I created a video that was based on the conversations I had with an ex girlfriend who could never understand why I could never go out and have brunch or stay out late on a Saturday night is always had an early ride or late, you know, long run or whatever, and I made

[00:46:44.49] spk_6:
this video and every single traffic related to it and everything. Oh my God, I always think that stuff well, I create

[00:46:50.55] spk_0:
the video because I just Why not? When you’re near a diverse, that’s why not is your favorite word, you know,

[00:46:55.73] spk_6:
why not Let’s try it. Let’s see what happens. You got me in trouble a lot. Growing up,

[00:47:09.60] spk_0:
I, um Yeah, I will never forget. Um, my parents coming home and finding that I had shaved. They’re 11 year old tabby cats. And

[00:47:22.23] spk_6:
what the hell Why would you do I want to see what happened. Nothing good happens when you shave the cat. I want to see what happened. Head to toe ball. That cat was not because I used a trimmer into the cat was drugs because, you know, the feels good. He feels he felt hated

[00:47:35.18] spk_0:
my mom, and that was not very happy. But, you know, growing up once I got what I grew up, everything became the concept of trying something to see what happens is actually very, very beneficial.

[00:47:39.38] spk_3:
Why not? I mean, definitely not profit. I mean, any organization we’re talking about profit could certainly benefit from some thinking around the

[00:47:46.34] spk_0:
question about it. You know

[00:47:47.05] spk_6:
what’s the worst could happen. It fails. Try something else.

[00:47:48.87] spk_2:
Yeah, way. We’ve talked about that on the show.

[00:47:50.60] spk_3:
We’ve had people talk about testing, testing for giving Tuesday, testing your fundraising messages, testing your email, testing other communication channels. That’s that’s what we’re talking about. Just that the

[00:48:03.45] spk_2:
ideas may be a little further out.

[00:48:33.25] spk_0:
The worst fear for me is not failure. It’s it’s not having not having tried something. I When I first got my first Alexa, I had this great idea. My kid was like, I think three years old, I had this great idea about, um I wanted to build an app that would wouldn’t allow election work unless it heard the word, please. So I didn’t want my daughter thinking that she could just talk to machines without in loser manner and and so

[00:48:34.59] spk_6:
I I should do this one day. I did. Really? Yeah. Uh, someone did it, and it exists now it’s a damn apples. Piss me off. You know, it’s like, Why do you Why

[00:48:49.62] spk_0:
d the a The only, um, the biggest risk it’s been said is not taking one, you know, And that’s it. So

[00:48:50.72] spk_2:
sure, of course. You know, you see that

[00:48:52.16] spk_3:
on social media all the time. I spent most of my time when I’m in social on Twitter, and, uh, you know,

[00:48:57.51] spk_6:
there’s over died years ago. There’s always, uh oh, yeah,

[00:48:59.90] spk_0:
way. We all know why it’s still alive. It’s only there’s only one reason why it’s alive in his orange and it should be dead. Twitter should have died about four years ago. There’s literally sze I find such a little value in and I’m still on it and you have to be. But I find such little value in it now. Such a bummer. It was It was it was phenomenal. I loved Twitter back in Lego eight and I

[00:49:20.10] spk_3:
were on the show. You might have said you don’t know if Twitter will survive, but But the

[00:49:23.75] spk_6:
concept, the concept, right? Momo? Well, not not constant tweeting the continent mobile messaging the concept of short, short burst communication. And I was right. And that is everything. That every single text,

[00:49:34.74] spk_0:
every single email, every single thing that we get is short bursts, right? And and for the

[00:49:39.68] spk_6:
HD, that’s perfect. It’s quick, little Oh, let’s look Okay. So

[00:49:42.58] spk_0:
let’s move on, you know, But the premise of tradition I’m starting to have your say something.

[00:49:51.32] spk_3:
Okay? That’s all these all these, uh, advice is, you know, the trite little Yeah. Never don’t be afraid to fail that the biggest failure is never trying, you know, But but But, I

[00:49:59.50] spk_2:
mean, there’s truth in

[00:50:00.15] spk_3:
it, but it seems trite.

[00:50:06.16] spk_6:
Well, everything seems t social media fucked everything up because nobody but nobody.

[00:50:06.66] spk_2:
You know, people are

[00:50:07.21] spk_6:
the last thing on. That’s right. I’m still see things. Yes. Thank you for sending 10,000 person conferences and telling them Be transparent. Be relevant.

[00:50:14.14] spk_0:
Be be, be brief. Being really

[00:50:17.05] spk_6:
Well, it’s so obvious. Then why aren’t you doing it? Test it. Try it.

[00:50:24.73] spk_3:
All right. Very true. We wrapped up. Sam, is that, uh we

[00:50:28.71] spk_2:
got five minutes off. Never gonna add. Oh, my gosh. Five minutes left. Oh,

[00:50:29.84] spk_3:
we started five minutes late. Yes, that’s what I’m looking at. The clock on Sam’s. All right, Um,

[00:50:36.43] spk_2:
tell me. Tell me more.

[00:50:55.71] spk_0:
Um, I could tell you that I One of the things that I find is is very, uh, everyone in whose no divers tends to have in common. We’re either incredibly productive or we do nothing at all again. No middle ground.

[00:50:56.87] spk_3:
This was the nomis day. All

[00:51:44.41] spk_0:
right? So I will I will. So, for instance, I have wanted I have done to Iron Man in my life to Ironman triathlons, and I want to do 1/3 1 and I for years I would say, OK, this is a year, and I haven’t had the impetus kick in the pants to sign up and and and pay the money. Paid almost $1000 to register for that. And something fell in my lap this year where it looks like I’ll be doing my 3rd 1 in in October. If you wait for the right moment, you’re never gonna have it. Yeah, right. And so again, that’s why I tend to say yes to almost everything in the world. Um, figure how to do it later, right? So I know that if I do my third eye, man, I’m gonna have to Basically from, like, mid February to October. I am going to be in that zone where I’m gonna be doubling my workouts. I’m gonna be, You know, my sleep will

[00:51:50.55] spk_6:
suffer. Not

[00:52:08.85] spk_0:
tremendously. I’ll still get enough sleep. But, you know, after putting my kid down eight o’clock, I might not go right to bed. I might have to do another two hours on bike. Isn’t like that. And, um but you I guess the point. Grantmakers What I find is that you make time for what’s important, right?

[00:52:12.33] spk_6:
Because of the end of the day, I’m still I’m still having the same 24 hours. That’s not gonna change. I’m not gonna find the time. Right. So you have to make it and you make it expensive. Something else.

[00:52:19.96] spk_0:
So you figure out what? What’s not important? A good friend of mine

[00:52:23.48] spk_6:
I understand so early. It’s amazing. You’re I wish I could do that like you can. No, I don’t know. I don’t know. You can. How do I do that? Well, okay, so I see that

[00:52:31.98] spk_0:
you’re liking, um shit on Facebook at 2 a.m. Maybe. You know, don’t do

[00:52:37.87] spk_6:
that. You know, it’s like we all have the same amount of time, and and how we utilize it is what

[00:52:43.43] spk_3:
matters. All right, out of respect for you, because the hour is really it’s an artificial. It’s an artificial

[00:52:47.90] spk_6:
country. Exactly. That exists

[00:52:50.94] spk_3:
to an hour, so we’re gonna leave it there. I really wanna thank you

[00:52:52.90] spk_6:
for your time. Thank you. Come back another five years.

[00:52:57.18] spk_3:
Thanks a lot for sure. You’ll find him at Peter Shankman. Peter

[00:53:03.38] spk_0:
Shankman. Peter Shankman. another Socials and peter shankman dot com and apparition shankman dot com.

[00:53:07.84] spk_3:
And at Peter Shankman, you also see he’s now a futurist in residence. We get just talk about

[00:53:11.53] spk_0:
epic epic marketing consultants, a great company in a Delaware. They hired me as their futurists futurist in residence. Yeah, so I come up with ideas. I I write white papers on what I think is gonna happen. Then we see if I’m

[00:53:24.41] spk_3:
right. Thank you very much. Next week, it’s our Valentine’s Day show relationship. Fundraising naturally with Adrian Sergeant. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by

[00:53:40.40] spk_2:
cooking meth in Software Denali Fund

[00:53:58.13] spk_3:
Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. A

[00:54:38.88] spk_2:
creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein of Brooklyn, New York We’re a pre recorded today, so there wasn’t live. Listen, love podcast pleasantries. But of course, you know the sentiment goes out. Those sentiments always go out. You with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for December 13, 2019: Zombie Loyalists

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My Guest:

Peter Shankman

Peter Shankman: Zombie Loyalists
Peter Shankman is a 5x best selling author, entrepreneur and corporate keynote speaker. His book “Zombie Loyalists” focuses on customer service; creating rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and PR for you. (Originally aired 12/19/14)

 

 

 

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[00:00:14.44] spk_2:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:00:36.83] spk_3:
profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d turn ex ophthalmic if I saw that you missed today’s show. Zombie Loyalists. Peter Shankman is a five times best selling author, entrepreneur and corporate keynote speaker. His book, Zombie Loyalists, focuses on customer service, creating rabid fans who do your social media marketing and PR for you. This originally aired December 19th 2014. I like to play it once a year. It’s it’s really valuable. Great lessons in here on tony Stake to Thank You for 2019 were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software, The Nolly Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Martin for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here’s Zombie Loyalists

[00:02:46.75] spk_4:
Peter Shankman is a well known and often quoted social media marketing and public relations strategist. His latest book is Zombie Loyalists. He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media marketing and PR for you. He’s got super ideas and very valuable stories. I’m very glad Peter Shankman is with me in the studio. He’s the founder of Haro. Help, a reporter out connecting journalists with sources in under two years from starting it in his apartment. Horror was sending out 1500 media queries a week to more than 200,000 sources worldwide was acquired by Vocus in 2010. He’s the founder and CEO of the Geek Factory, a boutique social media, marketing and PR strategy firm in New York City. Peter is on NASA’s civilian Advisory Council. You’ll find him at Shenkman dot com, and he’s at Peter Shankman on Twitter. His latest book is Zombie Loyalists, using great service to create rabid fans. I’m very glad his book brings him to non profit radio and the studio Welcome, Peter. Good to be here, tony. Thanks Pleasure. U, um, live on the West side of Manhattan and you and you, there’s ah, there’s a pretty well known five star steakhouse. I’ll get Wolfgang’s not far from you, but you pass it to go to a different steakhouse. Direct Morton’s correct. Why is that

[00:03:42.22] spk_0:
more. I am a zombie loyalist to Morton’s. What does that mean? I love the service, the attention to detail, the quality, the sort of where everyone knows my name mentality. When I walk into that Morton’s or any Mortons around the world, they have a tremendous custom relationship management system. When I call one number in New York or anywhere in the world, it they know who I am by my cell phone. And, uh, I’m treated with just, you know, phenomenal. Uh uh. Happiness toe here for me and my wishes were granted is aware. I know we have it, eh? Happy hour, Holiday party coming up at Morton’s next couple days. And, uh, you know, as always, I forgot to call and make a reservation. You know, I called and yesterday and said, Hey, I need a chance to get a reservation for seven people. Um, you know, there’s a night at, uh, 7 p.m. Which is, you know, the week of the holiday party. And they looked and they said, Oh, well, and then I guess their computer system kicked in. Of

[00:03:50.26] spk_6:
course, Mr

[00:04:34.44] spk_0:
Shankar, not a problem. I’ll get the Florida, you know, have it. We’ll have a great booth for you. That about, um, you know, and well, uh, tell us names. The people attending, you know, you know, you know, they’re gonna have specialized menus for them and their names on it. They really they have, ah, really high level of service that they provide, Not just to me. That’s the beauty of it. You know, it’s one thing for everybody. Yeah, it’s one thing if they just provided to me, but they do that for everyone. And, um, that is huge because, you know, being able to call when a normal person makes reservation. And not that I’m special. I’m actually rather abnormal. But when a normal person makes a reservation and says No, Martin says, Okay, greater you celebrating anything? So, yeah, it’s my wife’s birthday. That’s always after anyone. So you know what? It’s my wife’s birthday. Great. What’s her name? And her name’s Megan. Whatever. And you you go in and they and you sit down on the on the menu. It is Happy birthday. Make it. And then Megan, whoever she happens to be well, in the next 45 minutes, you know, taking 50 selfies with her menu and that’ll go online. And when her friends, you know, want that same experience, they’re gonna go. Morton’s

[00:04:49.82] spk_4:
you say in the book, you get the customers you want by being beyond awesome to the customers you have. And that’s why I want to start with that Morton’s story, which is in the middle of the book. But they do it for everybody, and then they have the V. I. P. S as well. And there’s the terrific story of you tweeting tell that story. That’s a good story.

[00:05:09.16] spk_6:
It’s a good

[00:05:09.54] spk_0:
story. Stories. I was flying home from a day trip to Florida and was exhausted and starving and

[00:05:15.98] spk_4:
they trip meeting. You’re flying down

[00:05:48.08] spk_0:
down to 6 a.m. Lunch meeting flew back same day one of those one of those days, and I jokingly said, The tweet Hey, Morton’s, why don’t you meet me at Newark Airport when I land with a porterhouse in two hours? Ha ha ha ha ha. Um, you know, I said it the same way you’d say winter, Please stop snowing things like that. And I landed, uh, find my driver and said, Next, my driver is a is ah, waiter in a tuxedo with the Mortons bag. They saw my tweet. They put it together. They managed to bring me a ah, a steak and and, you know, as

[00:05:48.25] spk_6:
great of a

[00:07:24.94] spk_0:
story, is it is it that’s that’s It’s a great stunt and it’s a great story and it wasn’t staged. It was completely amazing. But you know, that’s not what they’re about. They’re not about delivering stakes to airports. They’re about making a great meal for you and treating you like world when you come in. And you know, if they just did that, if they just deliver the state of the airport but their quality and service sucked, you know, it wouldn’t be a story, you know, like they did for Peter. But, you know, my steak’s cold, you know? So what it really comes down to is the fact they do treat everyone like kings. And that’s that’s really, really important, because what winds up happening, you have a great experience of borns, and then you tell the world, you know Oh, yeah, great dinner last night. That was amazing. I would totally there again. And as we moved to this new world, where review sites are going away, and I don’t I don’t I need to go to yelp reviews and people I don’t know. You know, if they’re shills, whatever the case may be, I don’t know. Or trip Advisor. Same thing. I want people in my network quite trust and people in their network who they trust by default, I trust. So that’s gonna be that’s already happening automatically when I when I land in l. A and I type in steakhouse, Not me. I know I know where the steakhouse Donnelly, but if someone typed into Google Maps or Facebook Steak House in Los Angeles, you know they’ll see all the State Council’s on Google map. But if any of their friends have been to any of them, they’ll see those first. And if they had a good experience, only if the sentiment is positive, will they see those first. And that’s pretty amazing, because if you think about that, the simple act of tweeting at a photo Oh my God, thanks so much more to love this. That’s positive sentiment. That network knows that, And so if you’re looking for a steak house, you know, and your friend six months ago had that experience. Oh, my God. Amazing state. This is a great place. The sentiments will be there. And and And the network will know that network will show you that steakhouse because you trust

[00:07:26.34] spk_4:
your friend. And this is where we start to cultivate zombie loyalists. Exactly. Is through this awesome customer service of the customers you have. Say more about something.

[00:07:34.15] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, you have so many companies out there who are trying to get the next greatest customer, You know, you see all the ads, the Facebook post. You know where 990 followers are? 10 are 1000. Follower gets a free gift. Well, that’s

[00:07:48.17] spk_6:
current

[00:07:55.66] spk_0:
saying, screw you to the original 990 followers who you had who were there since the beginning. We don’t care about you. We want that 1000. You know, that’s not cool. Um, the the companies who see their numbers rise and you see their fans increase in there. They’re, um um revenues go up. Are the ones who are nice to the customers they have. Hey, you know, customer 8 52 It was really nice of you to join us a couple months ago. How you know, how are you? We noticed that you posted on something about a, uh you know, your car broke down. Well, you know, we’re not in the car business, but, you know, you’re you’re two blocks from our our closest ah, outlet or whatever. And you know, once you if you need to come in, have a cup of coffee, will it use the phone? Whatever. You know, those little things that you could do that that really focusing the customers. You haven’t make the customers. You have the ones where the zombies who tell other customers have great your

[00:08:36.38] spk_4:
And this all applies to non profit, certainly as well.

[00:09:13.47] spk_0:
But even more south. Yeah. I mean, if you know, non profit, constant worry about howto make the most value of the dollar and how to keep the dollar stretching further and further. And ah, you know, you have this massive audience who has come to you who’s a non profit. Who said to you, You know we want to help Here we are volunteering our help and just simply treating them with the thanks that they deserve. Not just a simple Hey, thanks for doing it. but actually reaching out, asking what they want, asking how they like to get their information. Things like that will greatly increase in donations as well as, um, making them go out and tell everyone how awesome you are, letting them to your PR for you.

[00:09:17.54] spk_4:
And that’s what a zombie loyalist does. And this is for this. Could be donors could be volunteers in the organization who aren’t able to give a lot. But giving time is enormous,

[00:09:30.38] spk_0:
and, you know, if they have such a great time doing it, he’ll bring friends. As as zombies. Do you know zombies have one purpose in life? Really? Zombies have one purpose in life that’s defeat. It doesn’t matter how the Mets are doing. It doesn’t matter, you know, chance that they lost anyway. But it doesn’t matter how how anyone’s doing. You know what’s going on in the world economy. It doesn’t matter. What matters with Zombie is where they get their next meal because they feed and they have to infect more people. Otherwise they will die Zombie loyalists of the same thing. All they have to do is make sure that their custom they tell the world we all have that friend who does it. You know that one friend eats nothing but the olive garden because Oh, my God, Is greatest breadsticks everywhere, you know? And they will drag your ass the olive garden every single time they get that chance. That’s a zombie,

[00:10:04.54] spk_4:
loyalist. And you want them to do that for your non profit. And there’s a big advantage to being a smaller, smaller organization. You could be so much more high touching. We’re gonna talk about all that. We got the full hour with Peter Shankman. Gotta go away for a couple of minutes, stay with us.

[00:10:54.79] spk_3:
It’s time for a break. We have used the service’s of wegner-C.P.As for many years. Their service is excellent. The auditors provide clear directions and timetables. They’re professional and thorough, but also easy to work with. The answer questions promptly End quote. And that is from an HR professional in Hillsborough, North Carolina. Heavenly Hillsboro. That’s from a movie who can Ah, who can name that movie? Heavenly Hillsboro. Not to get off topic, though, but I just did. Do you need that kind of c p A support with clear directions and timetables. Easy to work with answer questions promptly. Professional and thorough. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Now back to Zombie loyalists

[00:10:59.87] spk_4:
Peter, it doesn’t take much Thio stand out in the customer service world does it

[00:11:09.02] spk_0:
really doesn’t, you know. And the reason for that is because we expect to be treated like crap. You know, I love this example. Whenever I gave speeches, I asked, I asked you in the audience, Who here has had a great flight recently, like at least one personal raise their hand. Okay, what made it great and without fail there. And, well, we took off on time and and I had the seat I was assigned, and we landed on time and like so you paid for a service. They delivered that service and you are over the freaking moon about it, like that’s the state that we’ve become. You know, that’s how bad customer service has been that you are just beyond thrilled that they did exactly what they said they were gonna do it. Nothing more.

[00:11:37.94] spk_4:
Less than 20 minutes in the post office line exam, and I’m ecstatic

[00:12:12.47] spk_0:
exactly. You know, it’s so we really are at a point where we only have to be one level above crap. I’m not even asking my client to be good. Just one level of crap. You know, if everyone else is crapping your one level above that, you’re gonna win. It’s my favorite. My favorite joke. Some the two guys were out in the woods hunting in the woods in the or just jog. It was the 1st 1 sees Ah, bear. And they see this barren bears raised up is about to strike, and the 1st 1 reaches down and tightens up his laces on his running shoes and the studio. Don’t be community. You can’t outrun a bear and just kind of need to understand how wrong. You know, I love that joke because it’s it’s so true. That’s the concept. You know, all you have to do is be just a little bit better than everyone else, and you’ll win the whole ball game.

[00:12:24.54] spk_4:
Now we have to set some things up internally in orderto have the structure in place to create the zombie loyalists.

[00:15:46.52] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, you have a You have a ah company where the majority of people in your company are afraid to do anything outside the norm. You know, I mean, look at look at a cell phone company. You know, you call them. Could you have a problem, right? 18 T or T mobile? You call them that? Your problem? They’re actually the customer service will handle your caller. Actually judged and rewarded based on how quickly they can get you off the phone, Not on whether or not they fix your problem. How fast that how fast they can get you off the phone. Which means how many more calls again? Remember, I worked when I worked in America Online. We all had to do a day of customer service every month just to see what it was like. That was a brilliant idea. But you know, again, it says it was a system called Vantive for you to sign on and assumes you signed on. If you weren’t in a call, you know, that was tacked against you. If you’re in a call and it went over a certain amount of time, that was tacked against you. So the decks were stacked. Not in the favor. The customer. There are some companies out there who allow their customer service employees to simply be smarter about what they dio and do whatever it is they need to do to fix the problem. Um, you know, my favorite story about this Verizon Wireless I went overseas was in Dubai, and I landed to buy, and I turned my phone had gotten global roaming on my phone. Which 20 bucks for every 100 megabytes. Okay, so I land and I turn on my phone and it says, um, before I’m even off the plane, I get a text that you’ve used $200 in roaming charges. What the hell? You know, $300 by talking about the plan, wegner, Something’s up here. So I called Arise and a nice guy answer the phone. Oh, yeah. I mean, the first thing that was Yes, sir. You do have global roaming, but it doesn’t work in Dubai. Okay, well, that’s not really global. That’s more hemispherical Roaming, I think is the issue. And so he said, Well, look, I’m gonna be here for a week. I said, you know what? You have my credit card on file, Bill me like, I don’t even like 1000 bucks and let me have the phone for, like, a week and, you know, that, you know, 500 bucks and I’ll go over to gigs would just do something for me. Sorry, sir. I’m not authorized to do that. You can look. So what do I have? Well, you can pay $20.48 a megabyte. I’m like, I’m sorry. Seriously. Which equates essentially to be charged 2048 seconds. 3048 cents. For every I think the times for every four seconds of the video Gangnam style if I decided to watch my phone like this is pretty ridiculous. So I simply hung up, hung up on your eyes, and I went down the street to the Dubai. The Mall of the Emirates, which is the largest mall in the world, has a freakin ski slope in it. And I’m not joking. And as a ski slope in this mall and went to one of the 86 different electronic stores in this mall bought an international unlocked version of the same exact cell phone I have went next door to the local sim card store, bought a SIM card that gave me 20 gigabytes of data at 1000 minutes of talk for $40 I then put that in my phone because I it’s an android phone. I simply typed in my user name and password for Google and everything imported. And Verizon did not get a penny on that trip. Um, how easy would have been from Horizon to say, Okay, you know what? We’ll cut your brake. They still make a lot of money off me. And I would tell the world how great Verizon was to work with and how wonderfully how helpful they were. Instead, they guaranteed that I will never They will never make a penny from any international trip. And I take, what, 15 of them a year. Because now my cell phone, um, by international cell phone that I bought all I do is pop out the SIM card in my land wherever I am putting a new SIM card. So

[00:15:47.22] spk_4:
and you’re speaking and writing and telling bad

[00:16:15.23] spk_0:
jokes and your eyes. And every time I tell the story about variety, I make it a little worse. Apparently, Verizon tests out the durability of their phone by throwing them kittens. Read this or not, but you know, the concept that all they had to do all the energy was in power Mark, and it wasn’t Mark’s fault. Mark was a really nice guy, but he was not allowed to do that. He would get fired if you try to do a deal like that for me. And so it’s this concept, you know. The

[00:16:15.36] spk_6:
funny

[00:16:15.56] spk_0:
thing is, it comes down If you

[00:16:16.82] spk_6:
really

[00:16:50.24] spk_0:
want to go go down the road in terms of a public company like Verizon of where the issue is, you could even trace it to fiduciary responsibility because the fiduciary responsibility of any company CEO all the way down to the employee is to make money for the shareholders. Future responsibility means by not allowing me, they don’t allow in. Mark the customer service agent to to help me on and take a different tack is actually losing money. Too many CEOs think about the next quarter. Oh, we have to make our numbers this quarter. I’m fired companies in other countries to nothing with next quarter century, and they make a much bigger difference because the thing okay, what can we do now? That will have impact in the next 5 10 15 years, you know, and really implement the revenue that we have and an augment and companies Americans don’t know nothing about them. That’s a big problem.

[00:17:15.80] spk_4:
I’d buy a product line that has a lot of natural and recycled materials. Seventh generation and their, um, their tagline is that in our every decision, we must consider the impact on the next seven generations. It comes from an American Indian.

[00:17:21.38] spk_0:
It’s great. It’s a great line. I mean, just thinking about how much money would have made for me in the past three years over just just in my

[00:17:27.31] spk_4:
overseas, you’d be telling a story about like them about Morten like the one

[00:17:54.51] spk_0:
about a lot of people listen to me and they wegner for a time when you Googled roaming charges variety, wegner, Google Horizon, Roaming charges. My story about how I saved all this money really came up first because I did the math. And if I had not called Mark and bought my own cell phone and done this, I would have come home to a $31,000 cell phone bill and you damn over rising one damn thing about that up to bad. Sorry about the fine print

[00:17:56.40] spk_4:
and plus the employee who sold you the quote. International plan, right? I’m sure you told her. No way. I’m

[00:18:03.56] spk_0:
going to Canada and they’re going to buy. I’m assuming she didn’t know where to buy was she thought it was near Canada, but yeah,

[00:18:09.37] spk_4:
long story short. I couldn’t use it. All right, So employees have to be empowered. There’s to be. We have to be changing a thinking to the customer has to come first. The donor of the volunteer

[00:19:40.75] spk_0:
don’t volunteer, you get at the end of the day, where’s your money coming from? Look, if you’re not profit our Fortune 100 where’s the money coming from? You know, And if you we see it happening over and over again. We’re seeing what you’re seeing right now. Play out every single day with company uber uber. It’s so funny cause uber makes you know the value of $40 billion right now. But that doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything. If people are running away in droves, which people are, there’s a whole delete your uber app movement hard. Oh God. Yet people are living. What’s the problem? Well, it’s several number one that uber is run by a bunch of guys who honor the bro code. The company was actually started by a guy who, in on business in business, insider said he started the company, get laid. His goal was to always a black car when he was leaving a restaurant to impress the girl he was with that he came out and said that And you see that culture run rampant throughout uber from their God mode, where they can see they actually create. There was, Ah, read this amendment visited center as well that they created a hookup page that showed or, ah, walk of shame Page that showed where women were leaving certain apartments like on weekends. And we’re leaving certain place on weekends, going back to their home. It was obvious that they, you know, some guy and I think they did that. And of course, just there their whole surge pricing mentality, which is, you know, two days ago there was, ah, a couple of the terrorists of the biggest Harris attacking in Sydney at that at that bakery, and Sydney Uber and Sydney instituted surge pricing for people trying to get out of harm’s way, you know, and and they later refund it.

[00:19:48.41] spk_6:
Oh, it was a computer

[00:20:07.46] spk_0:
glitch. You know, I’m sorry. You have a stop button. And you can when you see something happening like that, there has to be someone in the office. You know what? Not cool. We’re gonna take care of that and hit the stop button. And it was yet bad. Tons and tons and tons of bad publicity. You know, I was having an argument with one of my facebook page facebook dot com slash peter Shankman Because they said, Oh, you know, So what they don’t They don’t turn surge pricing don’t have enough cabs. They’re, you know, people can’t get home. I said, I’m pretty sure that the on Lee come, but I’m sure that no one had cab companies that I’m sure that there wasn’t anyone who had enough cars. They’re private cabs, uber’s whatever. Yet the Onley stories I read about cos screwing up during the event where uber not Joe’s Sydney cab company. You know, I didn’t see him screwing up because he didn’t turn on surge pricing. You gotta You gotta respect your customer after,

[00:20:40.16] spk_4:
as we’re ah training for that, then not only trying to change that mind ships well in in trying to change that mindset, rewards for custom for employees that do take, go to go the extra

[00:21:01.89] spk_0:
mile Well, first of all, if you give the employees the ability to do it to go the extra mile and understand they won’t get fired, you’re not gonna get in. Try always to tell every one of my employees you never get in trouble for spending a little extra money to try and keep a customer happy. You’ll get fired for not doing it. You know you’re fired for, not for seeing an opportunity to fix someone and not taking

[00:21:06.61] spk_4:
not doing everything that you could

[00:21:44.36] spk_0:
know. Ritz Carlton is famous for its current hires people not because whether they could fool the bed sheet but for how well they understand people. Because in Ritz Carlton’s mind, it’s much more important to be a people person and be able to be empathetic, and that it’s such a key word. Empathy is just so so sorely lacking. You know how many have called customer service? Yeah, you know, I have to have to change my flight. Might my My aunt just died. I really D’oh! Okay, great. That’s $200. I just want to go now. Earlier, You know, you show up at the airport, your bag is overweight by half a pound. That’s $25. I just can you just cut me some slack note. So empathy and giving the custard, giving the employees the ability to understand that the customer that sometimes you can make exceptions and it is okay to make changes.

[00:21:51.27] spk_4:
And this is where a smaller organization

[00:21:53.57] spk_6:
has huge advantage. It’s easier to change.

[00:22:01.54] spk_0:
That’s what kills me. You know, I go to these try to frequent small businesses when I can. I get you something small businesses and they won’t they act like large businesses, you know, in the respect that they

[00:22:06.46] spk_6:
don’t have.

[00:22:06.91] spk_4:
Ah, they want to be respected almost

[00:22:46.53] spk_0:
don’t have, like, a 6 6000 page code that they have to adhere to. They can simply, uh, do something on the fly. And yet, for whatever reason, they won’t do it. And it’s the most frustrating things. And look, guys, you’re acting like a big your act like Mega Lo Mart here, you know, and you’re not Mega Lo Mart, and you’re just Joe’s House of Stationary whatever it is and, you know, not be able to help me. You’re pretty much killing yourself because you don’t have 85 billion customers that come to the door after me, you know? But I have a pretty big network. And for a small business, two get killed socially, as social becomes more and more what? How we communicate, You know, it’s just craziness.

[00:22:56.18] spk_4:
You know, we’re pretty much in a world, I think, where something almost hasn’t happened to you. Unless unless you share

[00:23:41.18] spk_0:
it e joke that, you know, if I can take a selfie. Was I really there? Um but it’s true, You know, we do live in a world where, you know, I remember God 10 years ago. Maybe not even not even 10 years ago. I was one of the first people have a phone in my camera, you know, And it was like, 24. That’s why you can ring my phone. Right? And it was like a I think a 0.8 megapixels. You know, it looked like I was taking a picture with a potato, but it was It was this. I remember it was 2002 and I was in Chase Bank and there was a woman arguing with the teller and I pulled out my video. You know, it was the crappiest video you ever seen. I pulled it out and I said, You know, I started recording and the woman behind the cat woman, the kind I was doing The woman behind the counter was talking to the customs, saying, You do not speak to me that way. You get out of this bank right now and the country was saying, I just wanted my balance, and you and your manager comes over. I

[00:23:54.71] spk_6:
get this whole thing

[00:23:55.15] spk_0:
on my little crappy three g Motorola folk phone, and I remember I posted online and Gawker picks it up. I gave him E mail. The headline I put on my block was, you know, chase where the right relationship is at. Go out yourself, you know? And it was It just got tons of play and the Gawker picked it up. It went everywhere, totally viral. So

[00:24:11.97] spk_6:
it’s one of those things here, just like, you know, this is in

[00:25:02.50] spk_0:
2002. It’s 12 years later. How the hell can you assume that nothing is being that you’re not being recorded. You know, I I ever blowing I sneezed a couple weeks ago and, uh ah, not to get too graphic here, but I needed a tissue big time after I was done season. I remember going through my pockets looking for desperate, looking for tissue, looking around, making sure it wasn’t on camera somewhere that someone didn’t grab that for the next viral sensation. You know, I got I went to high school with a block from here, right? If the amount of cameras that are in Lincoln Center today were there in 1989 90 90 be having this conversation entirely, I’d be having a conversation behind bulletproof for myself. Yeah, so you know, you’d be you’d be talking to. You have to get special clearance to visit me probie at the Super Max in Colorado. It’s one of those things that you just like. My kid, who’s who’s almost two years old now is gonna grow up with absolutely no expectation of privacy the same way that we grew up with an expectation of privacy. And I’m thankful for that because she will make a lot less stupid moves, you know? I mean God, The things that I thought, you know, in in high school I thought

[00:25:18.88] spk_6:
the stupid isn’t the

[00:25:24.18] spk_0:
world. Thank God there wasn’t a way for me to broadcast that to the world in real time. Thank God

[00:25:32.01] spk_4:
creating these zombie loyalists. And we’ve got to change some. We gotta change culture and thinking and reward systems. Let’s go back to the cost of all this. Why is this a better investment than trying to just focus on new donors?

[00:25:39.30] spk_0:
I I love this analogy and give your fun analogy lets

[00:25:42.56] spk_6:
him

[00:26:18.95] spk_0:
in a bar. And there’s a very cute girl across the across the park and catch my eye catcher. I go up to a go. You know, you don’t know me. I’m amazing in bed. You should finish your drink right now. Come home. Let’s get it on. I’m gonna impress. I’m that good Chancellor should get throw a drink in my face. Go back talking to her friends. I’ve done a lot of research on this. That’s probably now let’s assume let’s assume an alternate world. I’m sitting there on my phone. I’m just playing like, you know, some no boards are frantically and she’s over there talking to friends, one of her friends. Holy crap, That’s

[00:26:19.53] spk_6:
Peter Peter Shankman. I’ve heard him speak. He’s in this

[00:26:22.95] spk_0:
fantasy world. I’m single, too.

[00:26:27.13] spk_6:
He I think he’s single and he’s having the amazing guy I know. He has a cat you ever get. You should totally go talk to

[00:26:48.71] spk_0:
him the very least. I’m getting this girl’s number. That’s PR, Okay. And what do we trust? More me with my fancy suit collar going over the seventies. Leaders in Hi, I’m amazing. Or the girl saying, Hey, we’ve been friends since their grade. I’m recommending that guy. You should trust me on this. Obviously, that that’s where good customer service comes into play. And that’s where corporate culture comes into play. Because if I have a great experience with you and at your company, I’m gonna tell my friend when they’re looking and I will stake my personal reputation. And there’s nothing stronger

[00:26:58.24] spk_4:
than that. And these are the people who want to breed as his eyes

[00:27:00.65] spk_0:
are stronger than advertising stronger the marketing

[00:27:03.15] spk_4:
and they’re gonna share. People want to share

[00:27:10.38] spk_0:
that. Think about the Internet runs on two things. It runs on drama, drama and bragging bragging and drama. And if you if you need any proof of that, you go and look at all the hashtags with crap that’s happened, you know, bad customer service, bad, whatever. But

[00:27:19.84] spk_6:
then look at all

[00:27:28.34] spk_0:
the good hash tags. You know, when our flight’s delayed for three hours and we lose our seat Oh, my God. I hate this airline. The worst A line ever. But when we get upgraded right hashtag

[00:27:29.24] spk_6:
first class bitches or

[00:27:30.13] spk_0:
whatever it is, you know, like that

[00:27:31.80] spk_6:
on the whole, because we love to

[00:27:33.27] spk_0:
share its on Lee a great experience if we could tell the world. And it’s only a bad experience if we could make everyone else miserable about it as well.

[00:29:23.57] spk_3:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software designed from the bottom up for nonprofits, that means for you that it has what nonprofits need, what you’re looking for. Like fund accounting. Critical. Um, no more spreadsheets for your restricted funds. Fraud prevention, outstanding customer service. You will get a free 60 day trial on a listener landing page at now. It’s time for tony steak too. And I thank you for all your support in 2019 as we wind the year down. Um, lots of listeners. Grateful. Grateful for all the 13,000 plus listeners week after week. Um, those podcast listeners. Thank you so much. If you listen live. I’m grateful to you. You know, I’m always sending the live love as well as the podcast. Pleasantries, Of course. Thank you. Uh, even when there’s just six or eight or 10 people listening live, it gives me energy. I love knowing that there are a couple of people scattered throughout the world. Doesn’t matter, really? Doesn’t matter. Listening live. I’m grateful for that. Thank you. Tuning in life. Um, and maybe there are other ways that we’re connected. If it’s ah, through the Facebook page. Twitter, um, linked in. Nah, there’s not too much unlinked in too much activity on linked in some. But however it is you’re connected. Oh, the inbox. If you’re getting the insider alerts, thank you for that. Every Thursday. Getting those. Thank you. However, it is your with non profit radio supporting non profit radio. I thank you very much. And that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s continue with Peter Shankman and Zombie loyalists.

[00:29:33.82] spk_4:
Peter, you have a golden rule of social media that that a good number of customers like to share and people are gonna keep doing

[00:30:18.21] spk_0:
it. People will always share. Um, again, it goes back to the concept that if you create great stuff, people want to share it because people like to be associated with good things. If you create bad stuff and my stuff, I could meet. I mean anything from, like, a bad experience, too, that content people not only won’t share that, but we go out of their way to tell people how terrible you are. Yeah, um, you know, how many times have you seen companies fail horribly? Uh, you know, after major disasters when companies were tweeting, um, you know, completely unrelated things after after random school shooting? No, it was after the shooting at the theater in Aurora, Colorado. The Dark knight, the tweets.

[00:30:19.13] spk_6:
Hey, shooter’s, what’s your plans for this

[00:31:12.47] spk_0:
weekend? You know, and I’m just going, really, you know, But of course, the thing was, the thing was retweeted millions of times, you know, with a sort of shame on the way. So wait, We’re society. Like I said earlier, that loves to share. When, When great things happen to us but loves to tell the world when we’re miserable, because we’re only truly miserable when you make everyone else miserable. Um, it’s funny, you mentioned, Ah, generosity. Siri’s the one of my favorite stories, which goes to sort of a bigger picture of culture and somehow when you’re just doing your job, because that’s what you’re supposed to do your job. But you don’t realize there are ways to get around that. I I listened to your podcast, among others, when I’m running through Central Park on Dhe, more like if you know my body type more like lumbering through Central Park. But I get there. I’m an iron man, I have that. And, ah, so I go to Central Park and it’s super early in the morning cause I usually have meetings and I don’t run fast. I run like I really don’t run fast, but But as I’m running,

[00:31:16.56] spk_4:
but let’s give you the credit that you have done a bunch of iron Man,

[00:33:02.26] spk_0:
I have try. I do. I do it, you know. My mother tells me that I just have very poor judgment in terms of what sports I should do But, um, on the flip side, I’m also a skydiver, which is with my weight is awesome. I fall better than anyone, but so I’m running through Central Park. Last year it was February, February of 13 and 14 of this year. And, um, it was around 4 45 in the morning because I had a Canadian meeting and have you 10 miles. So four foot of the morning running about, but hopping around 1979 88th Street on the east side in the park and a cop pulls me over. And what you doing? Look at him. You know, I’m wearing black spandex. I have had it’s five degrees. I don’t want you playing checkers, you know, like I’m running and it’s like, Okay, can you stop running? I’m like, OK, does that give the park’s closed? No, it’s not. Look, I’m in it. Look around. There are other people who know part doesn’t open this exam like he’s ago. Would you have any idea? And you’re like, No, I’m running because what you name, I’m like, seriously, I’m writing you a summit. I’m like you ready? Made some. It’s for exercising. I just want to clarify that you’re writing. And sure enough, the guy wrote me a summons for exercising in Central Park before it opened. The charge was breaking the violating curfew. You know, I’m like I get the concept. The curfew is to keep people out after 2 a.m. It’s not to prevent them going in early to exercise, to be healthy. I’m like, I’m not carrying a six pack. I’m not drinking a big gulp. I’m not smoking. I mean, I’m doing something healthy, and you’re writing me a summons for it. Um, I said I’m gonna have a field day with this. I said I have some fathers. This will be a lot of fun. I’m not. You know, you’re just doing your job Serve even though you have the discretion not to. But Okay, so I go back home, take a picture of me, take it, e mail it to a friend of mine in New York Post front page New York Post next day. No running from this ticket. York Times covered it. Runner’s world covered. I mean, I went everywhere. Gawker covered it, you know? And my

[00:33:06.66] spk_6:
whole thing was

[00:33:10.15] spk_0:
just like, Dude, you have discretion. Look, at me. You know, I’m not.

[00:33:10.85] spk_6:
I’m not even going super fast, for God’s sake.

[00:33:13.39] spk_0:
I’m just just trying to exercise here, you know? And

[00:33:16.08] spk_6:
of course, I went

[00:33:16.47] spk_0:
to court, and I beat it. But how

[00:33:18.25] spk_6:
much money

[00:33:21.19] spk_0:
they cost the city for me to go to court fight this thing. You know, every employee you have to give your employees the power of discretion. The power of empathy to make their own decisions. If you go by the book, bad things will happen.

[00:33:28.71] spk_4:
And again, small shops. So much easier to do. Yep. Flatline flat organizations.

[00:33:58.10] spk_0:
I worked with a nonprofit animal rescue non profit. A friend of mine was a skydiver and shut him out. I can’t, but But there’s a friend of mine, Scott, ever. And she was killed in a base jump several years ago, and her husband asked to donate her memory to this non profit. So I set him a check, and about three months later, I get a coffee table book of mail and I was living by myself. The time I didn’t own a coffee table. It was, you know, more money to spend on my flat screen. And I remember I call I look at this coffee table guy throw I throw in the corner. I look at it over next couple days. It pisses me off on how much How much of my donation did it cost to print? Melon produced this book to me, and so I called them up. Well, sure. We believe most of our donors are older, and I prefer to get a print version as opposed to, like digital. You know where they throw it away, Like you don’t traditionally, but Okay, um, I’m like, So So you’ve asked your you’ve done surveys in. You’ve asked, You

[00:34:23.15] spk_6:
know, we just assume the

[00:35:03.43] spk_0:
most number older. I’m like, Okay, I open my mouth lineup joining the board and spent the next year interviewing customers, interviewing every current and past donor about how they like to get their information and shock of shocks. 94% said online. And so over the following year, we launched Facebook page, Twitter page. Um uh flicker account, YouTube, everything. PS the following year for that, donations went up 37% in one year in that economies, right ran away tonight. Donations went up 37% in one year, and they saved over $500,000 in printing mammalian reproduction. Imagine going to your boss, boss. Revenues up 37%. And we saved 1/2 $1,000,000 in Boston about your really good beer. You know, all they had to do was listen to their audience, be relevant to the audience you have, and they will tell you what they

[00:35:09.51] spk_4:
want. We have tons of tools for segment.

[00:35:11.34] spk_0:
Oh, my God.

[00:35:11.93] spk_4:
You gotta listen to what segment you want. People want to be.

[00:35:31.37] spk_0:
You know, someone someone asked me today. You know what? What’s the best way? I knew nothing about their company. What’s the best social media outlet for me to be on? Should be on Twitter ship on Facebook, I said, I’ll answer that question. If you can answer this This this question to ask you is my favorite type of cheese Gouda or the number six. I understand that’s not a real question. Look, neither is yours like I can’t tell you where the best place to be your audience can. I said, Go ask your audience. Believe me, they will tell you there’s a gas station. The Midwest come and go. I love the name K u M and G O. And there, Tad,

[00:35:47.60] spk_4:
you can read more about

[00:35:48.35] spk_0:
the tagline is always something extra. I

[00:35:51.22] spk_6:
mean, come on, the jokes just

[00:35:52.39] spk_0:
right sells for God’s sake. But

[00:35:54.88] spk_6:
then I’ll take themselves too seriously, that ghost knowing the name of

[00:36:06.27] spk_0:
the company gas station. And I remember there in Iowa and I went to visit a friend and I went I was like, You’ve got to get a photo of you in front of coming goes And the

[00:36:08.77] spk_6:
beauty of this is that some of their employees

[00:36:09.59] spk_0:
actually look at their customers when they’re on their phones. In the stores

[00:36:13.27] spk_6:
go. You know what you use Twitter or Facebook?

[00:36:15.25] spk_0:
And they say,

[00:36:19.93] spk_6:
Oh, you and the record that information and they know it. Customers will give you so much info if you just ask them, because then they feel

[00:36:42.42] spk_0:
invested. They feel invest in your company. They feel like they that you took the time to listen to their non profit requests or their their their questions. And they feel like they’re radio for Harrow. Every month we have a one question Harrow survey, you know, heroin question survey, and it would get like 1000 people respond. I’d spend the entire weekend emailing Everyone responded, thanking them personally and took my entire weekend. But it was great because I would wind up happening. Is that you know, if we took their advice and launch it on Monday with the new thing?

[00:36:45.69] spk_6:
Oh, my God. How did this They took my advice?

[00:36:48.15] spk_0:
Yeah, was your advice to 800 other people Advice. But we

[00:36:51.82] spk_6:
took it and it just

[00:36:52.67] spk_0:
It just made them so much more loyal. And they tell hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people we get in. There were days. I got three days where I was in Temple one morning, the Garment Center synagogue and my phone. I feel like phone getting really hot in my pocket, which is not normal. And I start hurting. I look at it. It almost fired. It had frozen because we were mentioned in Seth Gordon’s morning blogged, and at that time, I was getting emails. Every time we get a new subscriber and the phone actually frozen and was locked and and was like overheating, I t at the battery and reset the entire phone because we’ve got so many new 14,000 subscribers in, like, three hours.

[00:37:26.40] spk_4:
I’ve seen some scene you say. Excuse me? You say that customer service is the new advertising, marketing and PR. Yeah, it

[00:37:59.32] spk_0:
really is. Well again. You know, if we’re moving into that world where so imagine a lava lamp. And I love that. I can use this now. Imagine a lava lamp. A lava lamp has water, oil and a heat source. Right. Heat source heats the oil. The oil flows with water. It makes pretty colors. I’ve heard it looks really good when you’re high. Now I’ve heard. Now imagine if crystals imagine if you’re, uh, everyone you meet in your network, okay? Is a drop of oil. The water is your network. And

[00:38:00.84] spk_6:
what is your world? Everyone you meet in your

[00:38:19.92] spk_0:
network from from the guy you’re sitting doing the radio interview with to the guy who serves you ice creams, local deli to the guy who does your dry cleaning to your girlfriend to your wife to not same time to your kids. Second grade teacher to your second grade teacher years ago. Everyone you meet is in your network, You know, right now, when Facebook first started I would see the same weight

[00:38:26.85] spk_4:
from a kid. I was in high school, his post with the same weight as like my current girlfriend, which is ridiculous. I don’t need to know about everything.

[00:38:55.92] spk_0:
My friend from junior high school’s doing even talking kid In 15 years, Facebook’s getting a lot smarter as Google. Now I see the people I communicate with the most okay, and if I if I reach out and connect with new people, they start rising in my feet and my stream. If I don’t they fall. It’s just like a lava lamp. Every person you connect with is a drop of oil. That heat source at the bottom that’s rising. Raising or lowering those drops of oil is relevance. So imagine the heat sources relevance. And the more I interact with someone, the more the higher they go

[00:38:56.87] spk_4:
in my network in the more I see of them, the more trust level

[00:38:58.84] spk_0:
there is. When I’m at a bar and I meet someone in a restaurant or conference, I meet someone. I don’t need

[00:39:05.32] spk_4:
to connect them. I don’t need to go on Facebook. Friend request

[00:39:08.37] spk_6:
that, you know, awkward

[00:39:09.04] spk_0:
friend requesting is when you stop to think that last

[00:39:10.41] spk_6:
time my

[00:39:10.56] spk_0:
friend requested some of the real world was second grade. Will you be my friend? My daughter’s doing that because, you know, it’s like

[00:39:15.91] spk_6:
cat Will you be my

[00:39:16.85] spk_0:
friend? Kind of. The captain will be here,

[00:39:20.10] spk_6:
but you know, it’s this awkward thing. Who the hell friend Request someone. If I hang out with

[00:40:09.71] spk_0:
you the bar and we connect again and we talk and we go out of dinner and we’re having a good time. We’re friends. I don’t need to first request that you, you know, that’s going away. Friending following liking and fanning is all going away. What will interact is the actual connection. So if I meet with you and I have a good time with you and we talk again if I use your business, if I go to your non profit, if I donate, if I volunteer, whatever network knows that the more I do that, the more interact with you. The more you have the right to market to me and the more you will be at the top of my stream in the more I will see information about you, the less I will have Thio search for you. But if you do something stupid or we’re no longer friends Yeah, you’re gonna fade. I don’t unfriend. You just disappear. Unfriending is also awkward. I dated a woman. We broke up. It was nine months after we broke up. Neither of us want friend, the other one, because it’s just awkward. I woke up in front of me, but you know the concept of not having to do that of just, you know? Okay, I haven’t talked in a while. I don’t see

[00:40:25.45] spk_4:
your post anymore. It’s the real world. And if you’re not feeding zombie loyalists, they can start to defect. No question about it. I want to spend a little time on. If you’re not talking to them, giving them what they want,

[00:40:27.55] spk_0:
talking about their information, helping them out, they will gladly go somewhere else to someone who is. You know, if I have a great experience of the restaurant every week for three years and then

[00:40:37.25] spk_6:
all of a sudden overtime,

[00:40:37.67] spk_4:
I’m noticing less unless that restaurant’s doing less and less

[00:40:49.65] spk_0:
to ah, take care of me, you know, and maybe management’s change. And I don’t feel that you know I’m ripe for being infected by another company. I’m right for someone else to come. You know, Peter, because if I tweet something Wow, I can’t believe I have to wait 40 minutes for a table that didn’t used to be like that. If if someone else is smart restaurant, they’re following me, and they’re gonna great. You

[00:40:57.17] spk_6:
know, if there’s no Wait, no, wait over here. Why don’t you come to black storms

[00:40:59.58] spk_4:
will give you a free

[00:41:04.21] spk_0:
drink, you know, you know, and that right there, that’s first sign of infection. And I might become infected by another by another company becomes on the little us

[00:41:34.71] spk_4:
for them. And so let’s take. You have a lot of good examples. Let’s take a one on one situation. How can we start to cure that? The simple act of realizing following your customer’s understanding when they’re not happy on fixing the situation before it escalates, you can contain a small outbreak, a small outbreaks, well, viral outbreak. You can contain that by getting the right people finding out what the problem is getting into one room, fixing their problem, healing them. You have a good united story right back When was Continental?

[00:41:51.51] spk_0:
I was, Ah, frequent flier and booked a trip to Paris on Dhe was very angry because they charged me $400 looking for you. I remember what it was. And, uh, I call the CEO. I just just for the hell of it. I’m like, I’m

[00:41:54.09] spk_6:
gonna I wrote a letter and email before Social, right? Ryan e mailed the CEO like this. Ridiculous. I’m free,

[00:42:33.06] spk_0:
like, 30 minutes on my phone rings. Hello, Peter, Please hold for Larry Kellman, CEO of Coming little. And I’m like, Oh, crap, you know, and get on the phone. He’s like, Peter, I did. Miss Jackman radio started these fees of their new um, we sent that note. I’m getting it and see it. We’re gonna wave them for you, But you have any more problems, you know, feel free to call me and I end up the phones the next 40 minutes, sort of staring at it like holy crab Larry killed on the CEO of United Airlines just called me and, uh, talk to me, and it was like it was like God coming down and say you now have the power to levitate your cat. It was just ridiculous. And so, you know, I have been faithful to Continental and now united ever since. On Dhe. They continue to treat me with respect and do great things, and they’re

[00:42:40.40] spk_6:
they’re improving. They were

[00:42:41.25] spk_0:
getting a lot of crap over the past several years, and there really are starting to approve. It’s nice to see

[00:42:45.01] spk_4:
and not only, of course, your own loyalty, but you’re

[00:42:47.19] spk_0:
my God. I

[00:42:47.98] spk_4:
was only loyalist for them and how many times how much it’s unquantifiable

[00:42:52.59] spk_0:
attract so many friends to united. I’ve made so many friends. I mean, my father, you know, he only flashing at it now, which means he only drag. He dragged my mom on the Internet and I only drink my wife. You know, there’s a lot of lot of work that way.

[00:43:10.40] spk_4:
We gotta go away for a couple of minutes when we come back. Of course, Peter and I are gonna keep talking about his book comes out in January. Zombie Loyalists,

[00:43:37.94] spk_3:
Time for our last break. Ever wonder why some nonprofits are always mentioned in the news? It’s because they work to build relationships with journalists who matter to them, turn to Communications can help do that for you. They are former journalists. They specialize in helping nonprofits build meaningful media relationships that lead to great coverage. They’re a turn hyphen to dot CEO. We’ve got butt loads. More time for zombie loyalists.

[00:43:44.04] spk_4:
You have some examples of zombie loyalist leaving and mass like dominoes. Netflix. They’re both They’re both in the book. So if so one leaving if you know you’re gonna start the cure One leaving?

[00:44:13.48] spk_0:
Yeah. And that’s the thing. You know, the little expand beauty, the Internet with the hashtag, everything like that. It doesn’t take a long time for those things. Just blow up in your face. And you know, the other day everyone’s a Twitter is responsible for us losing another non you’re responsible for using, you know, And if your product isn’t great and you’re your actions, don’t speak well of who you are. Then there’s no reason your customers should stay with you, you know? And it was l Social media is really hurting. I know you’re hurting yourself. The only difference is that social media makes it easier for the world to know.

[00:44:29.12] spk_4:
Yeah, they’re just telling the story. Dominoes and Netflix are good example because they they bounce back. They took responsibility and

[00:45:01.77] spk_0:
they both owned the dominoes, came out and said, You know what? You’re right. Our pizza and we do have a problem. We’re gonna fix this and they spent millions fixing it. And sure enough, they’re back with a vengeance. Now, I may or may not even have ordered them around in a while, and I live in New York City. That’s that’s a That’s a sacrilege. But you know, I have the app on my phone from oversea. No traveling somewhere. I’ll be in Sheboygan or whatever. And you know what? Do you get it 11. 30 at night when you’re flights, Lady land Dhamma? Um, which reminds me I should probably flip side. Look at someone like Netflix. They also were screwed up. You know, they were losing that. Tried to switch between the two. They came up with a new name and it was so gross and public. Oh, man. Again, you’re watching the same thing happen with uber right now. Seems to be really interesting to see if they’re able to repair themselves.

[00:45:16.67] spk_4:
Listening is important, but both those both those two examples, they listen to their customers.

[00:45:21.49] spk_6:
Think there’s a

[00:45:46.06] spk_0:
problem with listening because everyone’s been saying, Listen, listen, listen for months and years and years and years now, But, you know, no one ever says that you have to do more than just listen. Listen, actually follow up. Yeah, it’s one thing to listen. You know, I used to having my wife. I could sit there and listen to her for hours, you know? But I don’t actually say anything back. She’s just smack me, you know, and go to the other room. And so you really have to. It’s a two way street. Listening is great, but you respond. And look, I think it’s that further Twitter so great, because someone was complaining on Twitter and we went online. We we saw

[00:45:49.60] spk_6:
the complaint that we fixed their problem and gazes. How about if the

[00:46:17.14] spk_0:
problem don’t exist in the first place? You know, because the great thing about Twitter is that you have people complain on Twitter. The bad thing about it is there, complaining about you on Twitter. So it’s like, What if the problem didn’t exist in the first place? What if What if you empowered your front desk clerk to fix the problem so that I didn’t have to tweet hurts is my favorite story about all this, huh? I used to rent from Hertz religiously. Um, and then I went to Ah, Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport has passed April. And I gave it, was giving a speech and go, Oh, my name is supposed be on the board, you know, second car, and it

[00:46:21.72] spk_6:
wasn’t Okay.

[00:46:22.52] spk_0:
What happened? I got upstairs. I wait 40 minutes on the VP line. Um, after 40 minutes, they finally said, you know, there’s Ah, uh, only one guy here. A lot of people might have. Better chance we go to the regular line, okay. Probably told us that a little earlier. The regular and spend 45 minutes wait in the regular line. It’s now been.

[00:46:39.15] spk_4:
Are you tweeting while this is happening?

[00:47:15.85] spk_0:
Well, I didn’t know I was actually not only tweeting I had enough time to create a mean that should give you some idea of how long I was online with myself. I mean, I get it to the counter, how I can help you. Yeah, I was downstairs. The VP doesn’t tony. Oh, you’ll be a preservation room upstairs. Yeah. Okay. Let’s let’s put a pin in that. They just sent me up here, like right? They have to help you. Well, it’s not really They you guys for the same company. I mean, I could see the reservation on the screen. You you can help me. Sorry, sir. I can’t help. You have to be happy next. Like you just next to me. Okay, so if you know anything about Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix Um, all of the rental car coming through in the same place. Yeah. So I walked 50 feet.

[00:47:18.81] spk_4:
It’s a bus. Takes you to the big the big A civilian. Where? The role. Next week

[00:49:14.67] spk_0:
I walked 50 feet from the cesspool of filth in depravity That was hurts to the wonderful Zen Garden of Tranquility that was Avis. And in four minutes, I had a nicer, cheaper, more nicer, less expensive car given to a woman named Phyllis, who was 66 moved to Phoenix from Detroit with her husband for his asthma. I knew this because she told me. Um, she smiled at me. She brought her manager out and said, adds another refugee from Hertz and I said This happens a lot. They’re like, Yeah, I’m like, Wow, you think they have done something about it? And so on the way out in Avis, I thank them. I walked past hers. I shoot the casino, sort of. Look at the look of the beast. I get my Avis carnage at my hotel. I want to go to a hotel. I write a wonderful block post about my experience called Peter and hurts. And terrible. Horrible. No book could really bad customer experience. Do you have a kid? You find rewriting titles about your blood Post that you have to do with kids books. I do not like hurts, Sam. I am. And and, uh, I included in this block post the five things I’d rather do than ever, uh, rent from Hertz again. I think number three was It was Ah, ride a razor blade bust through a lemon juice waterfall. Um, with just, you know, and it’s a But of course, the next day hurts reaches out to me. J. Manuel is the head of North American customer service. That’s all you’re But I’m like, you know, we’d love to have up Nick. No, Like you’re not gonna fix the problem. Number 17 Avis car. I’m never going back to her. Number two through five people yesterday, five people interacted with all of whom had the chance to save me and keep me as a customer for life. A customer had been so happy, and I would have loved you. Five people blew it. So don’t waste your time trying to convert me back. You’re not going to. What you want to do is spend some of that energy retraining your staff to have empathy and to give them the ability and the empowerment to fix my problem when it happens. Because five people it takes every single employee to keep your company running. It takes one to kill it. Yeah, PS Avis reached out, um, to thank me personally. And ah, I am now just this ridiculously huge, loyal fan of Davis and always will be.

[00:49:23.79] spk_6:
You have a pretty

[00:49:28.14] spk_4:
touching story. But when you worked in a yogurt shop, you’re really young way. Have a couple minutes, tell it, tell it could stay.

[00:49:38.48] spk_0:
That was in the east side. Which again is yet another reason why I live in the West Side. Nothing good ever happens on Manhattan’s East Side. So I was. I was working and I can’t believe it’s yogurt, which was a store that I think back in the I c B Y. No, no TCB. Why was the country’s best yogurt the country’s I C B I. Why was a poor I

[00:49:49.81] spk_6:
can’t believe that you can Blame is

[00:49:58.44] spk_0:
not your yogurt with a poor attempt to capitalize on his TV. But I’m working at this store and I go every day and make the offer to clean the floors. I do.

[00:50:00.19] spk_6:
You know, a

[00:50:19.94] spk_0:
typical high school job. And, uh, it was during this summer and houses of people walking by It was like Second Avenue or something. And there were these brass poles that hung from, you know, there was awning, right? It’s only that there were the brass poles that held the awning up and they were dirty as hell, right? I’m sure they’ve never been polished ever. And

[00:50:20.09] spk_6:
I found I found some brass

[00:50:21.29] spk_0:
polish in the back, all right, but in the back and went after anyone outside, and I’m positive polishing the polls. My logic was, if the polls are shiny and people saw them. Maybe they come into the store. Maybe they’d wanna, you know, buy more screenplays and the manager came out.

[00:50:33.99] spk_6:
What the hell are you

[00:50:35.48] spk_0:
doing? I told him what I thought.

[00:50:36.78] spk_6:
I’d hate to think. Get inside.

[00:50:38.56] spk_0:
You know, there’s no customers in there. Okay? I’ll make sure the yogurt still pumping it full blast. And I quit. I just quit that job. I mean, I couldn’t even begin to understand why someone would invest. I mean, t own a franchise, bring 50 grand to at least to buy that franchise. Why wouldn’t he invest in the two seconds it took a little elbow grease to make the posting That might bring in more customers. What the hell And you know,

[00:51:01.06] spk_4:
But you’re not paid to think

[00:51:11.06] spk_0:
you’re not paid to think my favorite line. Yeah, um, I just I encourage if any kids are listening to teenagers. If you if you boss says that to you, quit, quit. I will hire you. Just quit. It’s probably the worst thing in the world that you could possibly do because you have customers who you have customers who every day can be helped by people who are paid to think, and that’s the ones you want. Here.

[00:51:22.03] spk_4:
We got to wrap up. Tell me what you love about the work you do.

[00:51:57.46] spk_0:
I get paid to talk. I mean, my God, that’s the same stuff I used to get in trouble for in high school. But on a bigger picture, what I really love about it is being able to open someone’s eyes and haven’t come back to me. Um, I run a series of masterminds called shank Mines Business masterminds shank minds dot com their daylong seminars around the country. And I had someone come to meet, you know, I took your advice about X y Z, and I started listening a little more. And I just got the largest retainer client I’ve ever had in my life by a factor of four. She goes, and I just can’t even thank you. Never said gorgeous bottle of tequila can’t even thank you enough. Oh, my God. Being able to help people, you know, at the end of the day where I have yet to find another planet suitable for life, I’m looking. So we’re all in this together. And if that’s the case, you know, why wouldn’t we want to help people just little bit more. You know, there really isn’t a need to be, as do she is, as we are as a society, we could probably all be a little nicer to each other, and you’d be surprised. A little help.

[00:52:15.83] spk_4:
The book is Zombie Loyalists, published by Pal Grave. McMillan comes out in January. You’ll find Peter at Shenkman dot com and on Twitter at Peter Shankman. Peter, Thank you so much. Pleasure

[00:52:27.05] spk_0:
was mine. Thank you.

[00:52:30.74] spk_3:
Next week I’m working on it. Trust me. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Math and software The Nolly Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Montaigne for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO

[00:53:13.54] spk_2:
creative producers Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for December 15, 2017: Zombie Loyalists

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My Guest:

Peter Shankman: Zombie Loyalists

Peter Shankman

Peter Shankman is a well-known and often-quoted social media, marketing and public relations strategist. His book is “Zombie Loyalists.” He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and PR for you. He’s got super ideas and lots of valuable stories. I like to play this each December. (Originally broadcast 12/19/14)

 

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on the aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into kenna mortal phobia if you told me zombies caused you to miss today’s show zombie loyalists peter shankman is a well known and, uh, often quoted social media marketing and public relations strategist. His book is zombie loyalists. He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and pr for you he’s got super ideas and lots of valuable stories i’d like to play this each december, and it was originally aired on december nineteenth twenty fourteen authorities take to the estate tax and planned e-giving we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers when you’re cps dot com, you’re not a business you’re non-profit apple it’s accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com tell us turning payment processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us here’s the first bit of peter shankman and zombie loyalists. I’m very glad peter shankman is with me in the studio. He is the founder of haro help a reporter out connecting journalists with sources in under two years from starting it in his apartment, hora was sending out fifteen hundred media queries a week to more than two hundred thousand sources worldwide. It was acquired by vocus in two thousand ten he’s, the founder and ceo of the geek factory, a boutique social media marketing and pr strategy firm in new york city, peter is on nasa’s civilian advisory council. You’ll find him at shanklin dot com and he’s at peter shankman on twitter. His latest book is zombie loyalists using great service to create rabid fans. I’m very glad his book brings him to non-profit radio and the studio welcome peter, get to be here, honey. Thanks. Pleasure. You live on the west side of manhattan. And you and you there’s a there’s. A pretty well known five star steakhouse. I’ll get wolfgang’s not far from you know, but you pass it to go to a different steakhouse, right? Morton’s? Correct. Why is that more? I’m a zombie loyalist importance. What does that mean? I love the service. The attention to detail the quality the sort of where everyone knows my name mentality when i walk into that mourns or any mortons around the world, they have a tremendous custom relationship management system. When i call one number ah, in new york or anywhere in the world, it they know who i am by my cell phone. And i’m treated with just, you know, phenomenal. Uh, happiness toe here for me. And my wishes are granted is aware, and we have any happy hour holiday party coming up at morton’s next couple days. And, you know, as always, i forgot to call and make a reservation. You know, i called yesterday and said, hey, i need a and she has to get a reservation for seven people. Dahna you know, there’s a night at, uh, seven p m, which is, you know, the week of holiday play, and they looked and they said, oh, well, and then i guess their computer system kicked in. Of course, mr chang is not a problem. I’ll get the fire anyway, you know how it will have a great booth for you that, you know, and we’ll tell us names the people attending and you know, you know, you know, they’re going to specialize menus for them and their names on they really they have ah, really high level of service that they provide not just to me that’s the beauty of it, you know, it’s one thing for everybody, yeah, it’s one thing, if they do was provided to me, but they do that for everyone, and that is huge because, you know, being able to call when a normal person makes reservation and not that i’m special, i’m actually rather abnormal. But what a normal person makes a reservation and says, no more tests, okay, greater. You celebrating anything so, yeah, it’s, my wife’s birthday waiting always ask after anyone said, oh, you know what? It’s, my wife’s birthday great what’s her name and her name’s. Megan, whatever. And you go in and they and you sit down on the on the menu, it says happy, but they make it, and then megan, whoever she happens to be well in the next forty five minutes, you know, taking fifty selfies with her menu and that’ll go online and when her friends, you know, want that same experience, they’re going to go morton’s you say in the book you get the customers you want by being beyond awesome to the customers you have. And that’s. Why? I want to start with that morton’s story, which is in the middle of the book. But they do it for everybody. And then they have the vips as well. And there’s the terrific story of you tweeting tell that story that’s a good story, but it’s a good story. Love stories. I was flying home from a day trip to florida and was exhausted and starving and they trip meaning you’re flying down a canoe down to six a m lunch meeting flew back same day. You know, one of those one of those days and ah, i jokingly said the tweet hey, morton’s. What? You meet me at newark airport when i land with a porterhouse in two hours. Ha ha ha ha ha! Um, you know, i said it the same way you’d say winter. Please stop snowing things like that. And i landed find my driver and said, next, my driver is a is ah, waiter in a tuxedo with the mortons back. They saw my tweet. They put it together. They managed to bring me a a steak and and, you know, as great of a story is that is that’s, that’s, it’s a great stunt and it’s a great story, and it wasn’t staged. It was completely amazing, but, you know, that’s not what they’re about, they’re not about delivering steaks to airports, they’re about making a great meal for you and treating you like world when you come in and, you know, if they just did that, if they just deliver the stake, the airport, but their quality and service sucked, you know, it wouldn’t be a story, you know, you know what they did for peter, but, you know, my steak’s cold, you know? So what it really comes down to is the fact they do treat everyone like kings and that’s that’s really, really important because, well, why is it happening to have a great experience of morton’s? And then you tell the world, you know, oh, yeah, great dinner last night, that was amazing, i would totally there again. And as we moved to this new world where, you know, review sites are going away and i don’t, i don’t need to go to yelp reviews and people i don’t know, and you know, if they’re shills, whatever the case may be, i don’t know or trip advisor, same thing i want people in my network who i trust and people in their network who they trust, then by default, i trust so and that’s going to that’s already happening automatically, you know, when i when i land in l a and i type in steakhouse, you know, not me, i know, i know where the steak house on telly, but if someone typed into google maps or facebook steak house in los angeles, you know they’ll see all the state houses on google map, but if any of their friends have been to any of them, they’ll see those first. And if they had a good experience, only if the sentiment is positive will they see those first and that’s pretty amazing, because if you think about that, the simple act of tweeting out of photo oh my god, thanks so much more in love this that’s positive sentiment, that network knows that. And so if you’re looking for a steakhouse, you know, and your friend six months ago had that experience oh, my god, amazing state this great place the sentiment will be there on dh. The network will know that that we will show you that steakhouse because you trust your friend. And this is where we start to cultivate zombie loyalists. Exactly is through this awesome customer service of the customers. You you have say more about something. Yeah. I mean, you have so many companies out there who are trying to get the next greatest customer. You know, you see all the ads, you know, the facebook post, you know, we’re at nine hundred ninety, followers are ten are one thousand follower gets a free gift. Well, that’s current saying screw you to the original nine hundred ninety followers who you had who were there since the beginning. We don’t care about you. We want that one thousand you know, that’s. Not cool. The the companies who see their numbers rise and you see their fans increase in there. There. Ah, revenues go up are the ones who are nice to the customers they have. Hey, you know customer fifty two. It was really nice of you to join us a couple months ago. How do you know? How are you? We notice that you posted on something about a you know, your car broke down? Well, you know, we’re not in the car business, but you know, you’re you’re two blocks from our our closest, ah, out loud or whatever and, you know, once if you need to come in, have a cup of coffee, will you use the phone? Whatever, you know, those little things that you could do that, that that really focus on the customers you haven’t make the customers you have the ones where the zombies who tell other customers have great your and this all applies to non-profits certainly as well the question, but even more so yeah, i mean, if you know non-profits constant worry about howto make the most value out of their dollar on how to keep the dollar stretching further and further. And, you know, you have this massive audience who has come to you, who’s a non-profit who said to you, you know, we want to help here we are volunteering our help and just simply treating them with the thanks that they deserve, not just a simple hey, thanks for doing it, but actually reaching out, asking what theywant asking how they like to get the information, things like that will greatly increase your donations as well as making them go out and tell everyone how awesome you are letting them to your p r for you and that’s what a zombie loyalist does and this is for this could be donors could be volunteers in the organization who aren’t able to give a lot, but giving time is enormous. And if you know if they have such a great time doing it, they’ll bring friends as as zombies do. You know zombies have one purpose in life? A real zombies have one purpose in life. That’s defeat it doesn’t matter how the mets are doing, it doesn’t matter, you know, because chance that they lost anyway. But it doesn’t matter how how anyone’s doing you know, what’s going on in the world economy, it doesn’t matter what matters was zombie is where they get their next meal because they feed and they have to infect more people. Otherwise they will die zombie loyalist to the same thing. All they have to do is make sure that their custom, they tell the world we all have that friend who does it, you know. That one friend who eats eat nothing but the olive garden because, oh, my gods! Greatest breadsticks everywhere, you know, and they will drag your ass the olive garden every single time they get that chance. That’s a zombie loyalist. And you want them to do that for your non-profit and there’s a big advantage to being a smaller, smaller organization. It could be so much more high touch. And we’re gonna talk about all that. We got the full hour with peter shankman. Gotta go away for a couple minutes. Stay with us, it’s. Time for a break. Pursuant they’ve got a webinar replay for you. It is proven stewardship strategies very timely because lots of people are giving to you this a month. So how do you keep them giving next year? And in twenty nineteen et cetera? You know how costly it is to lose donors and have to replace them? Nationwide dahna attrition you’ve heard guests say it it’s around seventy five percent each year, which is crazy. I’ve had guests trying to help you with that. Hopefully, your numbers are below the annual average, the nationwide average. Keep your donors you after year with a strong stewardship program that’s what this webinar is all about stewardship strategies rachel and cathy give you examples of top thank you’s they talk about automation without sacrificing personalization and they have free templates for you to use. The webinar is proven stewardship strategies it’s at tony dahna slash pursuant capital p now back to peter shankman and zombie loyalists. Peter, it doesn’t take much, teo stand out in the customer service world doesn’t really doesn’t, you know, and the reason for that is because we expect to be treated like crap. You know, if you think about that book, i love this example, whenever i give speeches, i asked, i asked you in the audience and like, who here has had a great flight recently, like at least one personal raise their hand? Ok, what made it great and without fail there? And well, we took off on time and i had the cd was a sign and we landed on time and like, so you paid for a service, they delivered that service, and you’re over the freaking moon about it, like that’s the state that we’ve become, you know, that’s how bad customer service has been that you are just beyond thrilled that they did exactly what they said they were going to win, nothing more less than twenty minutes in the post office line exam, and i’m ecstatic exactly, you know it it’s so we really are at a point where we only have to be one level above krauz i’m not even asking my client to be good, just one level of crap, you know, if everyone else’s crap and your one level above that, you’re going to win my favorite. My favorite jokes, thie two guys are out in the woods, hunting in the woods and the just jog. It was the first one sees a bear, and they see this barren bears raised up he’s about to strike, and the first one reaches down and tightens up his laces on his running shoes and it was the studio don’t be, don’t be needy, you can’t outrun a bear and just kind of need to understand how wrong you know, i love that joke because it’s it’s so true that’s the concept, you know, all you have to do is be just a little bit better than everyone else, and you’ll win the whole ball game. Now we have to set some things up internally in orderto have the structure in place, no question about it to create the zombie loyalists. Yeah, i mean, you haven’t. You have. Ah, company, where the majority of people in your company are afraid to do anything outside the norm, you know? I mean, lookit, lookit a cellphone companies, you know, they call them cause you have a problem, right? T or t mobile. You call them your problem? They’re actually the customer service. We’ll handle your caller actually judged and rewarded based on how quickly they could get you off the phone. You know, not on whether or not the fix your problem fast, but how fast they could get you off the phone. Which means how many more calls get everybody worked when i worked in america online, we all had to do a day of customer service every month just to see what it was like. That was a brilliant idea. But, you know, again, it’s just it was a system called vantage for you to sign on. And as soon as you signed on, if you want to call, you know, that was tacked. Against you, if you’re in a call and it went over a certain amount of time that was tacked against you, so the decks were stacked not in the favor, the customer. There are some companies out there who allowed there customer service employees to simply be smarter about what they dio and do whatever it is they need to do to fix the problem. You know, my favorite story about this verizon wireless? I went overseas, i was in dubai and i landed two buy-in i’m turning my phone had gotten global roaming on my phone, which, you know, twenty bucks for every hundred megabytes. Okay, so i land and i turn on my phone and it says, like, before i’m even off the plane, i get a text that you’ve used two hundred dollars in roaming charges. What the hell, you know, three hundred dollars by turning it off the planet. We’re something’s up here, so i called horizon on a nice guy answer the phone and oh, yeah, i mean, you know, the first thing that was yes, sir, you do have global roaming, but it doesn’t work in dubai. Okay, well, that’s not really global that’s. More hemispherical roaming, i think, is the issue, and so i said, well, look, i’m gonna be here for a week. I said, you know what? You have my credit card, bill me like cubine bilich a thousand bucks and you let me have the phone for, like, a week and you know that, you know, five hundred hours i won’t go over to gigs would just do something for me. Sorry, sir, i’m not authorized to do that. You can look. So what i have is well, you can pay twenty dollars and forty eight cents a megabyte. I’m like i’m sorry. Seriously, which equates essentially too. I will be charged. Twenty thousand forty eight seconds, three thousand forty eight cents for every i think the times for every four seconds of the video gangnam style if i would decide to watch my phone like this is pretty ridiculous. So i simply hung up. I’m hung up on your eyes and i went down the street to the dubai, the mall of the emirates, which is the largest mall in the world, is a freaking ski slope in that, and i’m not joking and as a ski slope in this mall and went to one of like the eighty six different electronic stores in this mall. I bought an international unlocked version of the same exact cell phone. I have went next door to the local sim card store, but, eh, sim card that gave me twenty gigabytes of data and a thousand minutes of talk for forty dollars. I then put that in my phone because i it’s an android phone. I simply typed in my user name and password for google and everything imported. And verizon did not get a penny on that trip. How easy would have been from horizon to say. Okay, you know what? We’ll cut your brake. They still make a lot of money off me. And i would tell the world how great verizon wants to work with and how wonderfully, how helpful they were. Instead, they guaranteed that i will never. They will never make a penny from any international trip. And i take what? Fifteen of them a year? Because now my cell phone, um, my international cell phone that i bought all i do is pop out the sim card on my land, wherever i am putting a new sim card so and you’re speaking and writing and telling that story boards and then rittereiser and every time i tell the story about variety, i make it a little worse. Apparently verizon tests out the durability of their phone by throwing them kittens. I read this and, you know, it must be, you know, not necessarily, but you know, the concept that that all they had to do all the energy was in power mark right now, and it wasn’t mark’s fault. Mark was a really nice guy, but he was not allowed to do that. He would get fired if you try to do a deal like that for me and so it’s this concept, you know, and the funny thing is it comes down if you really want to go go down the road in terms of a public company like verizon of where the issue is, you could even trace it to fiduciary responsibility because the fiduciary responsibility of any company’s ceo all the way down the employees to make money for the shareholders future responsibly means by not allowing me and they don’t allow a mark the customer service agent to to help me on dh take a different tack is actually losing money. Too many ceos think about the next quarter oh, we have to make our number six quarter. I’m fired companies and other countries to anything with next quarter century, and they make a much bigger difference because he okay, what can we do now that we’ll have impact the next five, ten, fifteen years? You know, and really implement the revenue that we have and an augment and cos america don’t don’t think about that. That’s a big problem i’d buy a product line has a lot of natural and recycled materials seventh generation and their their tagline is that in in our every decision, we must consider the impact on the next seven generations. It comes from an american indian, it’s great it’s a great line. I mean, just think about how much money horizon would have made for me in the past three years over just just my overseas you’d be telling a story about like them, about morten, like the one about things? Look, a lot of people listen to me and they went for a time when you googled roaming charges variety when you google verizon roaming charges my story about, however, how i saved all this money really big came up first because i did the math, and if i had not called mark and bought my own cell phone and done this time, i would have come home with thirty one thousand dollars cellphone bill and your damn authorizing one damn thing about that is we’re like up to bad start with fine print and plus the employee who sold you the quote international plan, right? I’m sure you told her, didn’t she said, where you going? I’m going to canada and i’m going to dubai. I’m assuming she didn’t know where to buy wass she when we thought it was near canada, but yeah, long story short couldn’t use it. All right, so employees have to be empowered there’s to be we have to be, but changing a thinking too. I mean, the customer has to come first. The donor of the volunteers don’t volunteer. You get at the end of the day where’s your money coming from look, if you’re non-profit or fortune one hundred where’s, the money coming from, you know and if you we see it happening over and over again we’ve seen what you’re seeing right now play out every single day with company uber on uber it’s so funny because uber makes you know the value of forty billion dollars right now, but that doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything if people are running away in droves, which people are there’s a whole? Delete your uber app movement that lord, no god, you people are doing what’s the problem well, it’s several number one, that uber is run by a bunch of guys who honor the bro code. The company was actually started by a guy who, in on business in business insider, said he started the company get laid, his goal was to always of a black car when he was leaving a restaurant to impress the girl he was with that he came out and said that, and you see that culture run rampant throughout uber from their god mode where they can see they actually create there was, ah, don’t read this, my business insider as well that they created a hookup page that showed or, ah, walk of shame page that showed where good women were leaving certain apartments like on weekends oneaccord believing certain place on weekends, going back to their home, it was obvious that they, you know, some guy, and i think they did that, and of course, just there their whole surge pricing mentality, which is, you know, two days ago there was a couple of symbolism the terrorists, thinkers, harris attacking in sydney at that at that bakery, and sidney, uber and sydney instituted surge pricing for people trying to get out of harm’s way, you know? And and they later refund it all was a computer glitch, i’m you know, i’m sorry you have a stop fun and you can when you see something happening like that, there has to be someone in the office because you know what? Not cool, we’re going to take care of that and hit the stop button, and it was, yeah, bad tons and tons and tons of bad publicity. You know, i was having an argument with one of my facebook page facebook dot com slash peter shankman because they said, oh, you know, so what? They don’t, they don’t turn surprising. I have enough cabs there and, you know, people can’t get home, i said, i’m pretty sure that the on ly come, but i’m sure that no one had cab companies there. I’m sure that there wasn’t anyone who had enough cars. They’re private cabs, uber’s, whatever yet the on ly stories i read about companies screwing up during the event where uber not joe’s sydney cab company you know, i didn’t see him staring up because he didn’t turn on surge pricing, you got it. You got to respect your customer after as we’re ah training for that then not only trying to change that mind ships well in in trying to change that mindset rewards for custom, for employees that do take go to go the extra mile. Well, first of all, if you give the employees the ability to do it to go the extra mile and understand they won’t get fired, you’re not going to get in try always to tell every one of my employees you never get in trouble for spending a little extra money to try and keep a customer happy you’ll get fired for not doing it, you know you’re fired for, not for seeing an opportunity to fix someone and not taking doing everything that you could, you know, rich. Carl is famous for that rhys caldnear hires people not because whether they could fool the bedsheet but for how well they understand people. Because in wisconsin’s, mind it’s, much more important to be a people person and be able to be empathetic. And that it’s such a key word empathy is just so so sorely lacking. You know how much you’ve called customer service? Yeah. You know, i have to have to change my flight. Might my my aunt just died. I really dio ok. Great that’s. Three dollars. I just wanted one hour earlier. You know, you show up at the airport. Your bag is overweight by half a pound. That’s twenty five dollars. I just can you can you just cut me some slack, you know, so empathy and giving the custom, giving the employees the ability to understand that the customer that sometimes you can make exceptions and it is okay to make changes. And this is where a smaller organization has huge advantage. It’s. Easier to change. That’s. What kills me. You know, i go to these, try to frequent small businesses. When can i get you something? Small? Businesses and they won’t. They act. Like large businesses, you know, in the respect that they don’t have ah, like they want to be respected almost they don’t have, like, a sixty six thousand page code that they have to adhere to. They can simply ah, do something on the fly. And yet, for whatever reason, they won’t do it. And it’s the most frustrating famous and what guys, you’re acting like a big you act like mega lo mart here, you know, and you’re not mega lo mart, and you’re just joe’s house of stationary, whatever it is and, you know, not be able to help me, you’re pretty much killing yourself because you don’t have eighty five billion customers would come to the door after me, you know? But i have a pretty big network and for a small business, two get killed socially as social becomes more and more what how we communicate, you know, it’s, just craziness, it’s, you know, we’re pretty much in a world, i think, where something almost hasn’t happened to you unless unless you share it a joke that, you know, if i can take a selfie, was i really there but it’s true, you know we do. Live in a world where, you know, i remember god ten years ago, maybe not even not even ten years ago, i was one of the first people have a phone in my camera, you know? And it was like, running from that’s what i said, yeah, carry my phone, right? And it was like a i think a point, eight megapixels, you know, it looked like i was taking a picture with a potato, but it was it was thiss i remember it was two thousand two and i was in chase bank and there was a woman arguing with the teller, and i pulled out my video, you know, it was there the crappiest video you’ve received, i pulled out and i said, you know, i started recording and the one being the cat woman wasn’t the woman behind the counter was talking to the customs saying you do not speak to me that way. You get out of this bank right now and the customers saying i just wanted my balance and you and your manager comes over. I get this whole thing on my little three g motorola phones phone and i remember i posted online and gawker picks it up. I gave him my e mail. You know, my headline, i put my blood was, you know, chase where the regulation ship is that go out yourself, you know? And it was it just got tons of play on gawker picked it up, it went everywhere, totally viral, it’s one of those things he was just like, you know, this is in two thousand two it’s twelve years later, how the hell can you assume that nothing is being with that you’re not being recorded? You know, i i and we’re blowing i sneezed a couple weeks ago and ah, ah, not to get too graphic here, but i needed a tissue big time after i was done sneezing, i’ve never going through my pockets, looking for desperate, looking for tissue, like looking around, making sure it wasn’t on cameras somewhere that someone didn’t grab that with hoexter viral sensation, you know? I mean, i went god, i went to high school with eight blocks from here, right? If the amount of cameras that aaron lincoln center today were there in nineteen, eighty nine, nineteen, ninety, i’d be having this conversation entirely i’d be having this conversation behind bulletproof for themself? Yeah, so, you know you’d be you’d be talking to you have to get special clearance to visit me. Pray be it the super max in colorado, you know, it’s one of those things that you just like my kid who’s who’s almost two years old now is going to grow up with absolutely no expectation of privacy the same way that we grew up with an expectation of privacy. And i’m thankful for that because she will make a lot less stupid moves, you know? I mean, god, the things that i thought, you know, in in high school, i thought the stupid is in the world, thank god there wasn’t a way for me to broadcast that to the world in real time. Thank god creating these zombie loyalists, and we’ve got to change some we’ve gotta change culture and thinking and reward zsystems let’s, go back to the cost of all this. Why is this a better investment than trying to just focus on new donors? I love i love this analogy and accufund analogy let’s open a bar and there’s, a very cute girl across the across the park and catch my eye catcher. I got to go. You know, you don’t know me. I’m amazing in bed. You should finish your drink right now. Come home, let’s. Get it on. I’m impressed. I am that good chance. Are you gonna throw a drink in my face? Go back talking to her friends. I’ve done a lot of research on this that’s probably now lets us sue let’s. Assume an alternate world. I’m sitting there on my phone. I’m just playing like you know, no boards with friendraising and she’s over there talking to friends, one of her friends. Holy crap! That’s peter. Peter shankman. I’ve heard him speak he’s in this fantasy world. I’m single too. He i think he’s single and he’s having this amazing guy. I know he has a cat. You haven’t. You should totally go talk to him. The very least i’m getting this girl’s number that’s pr. Okay. And what do we trust more me with my you know, fancy suit collar going over the seventies leaders in hi. I’m amazing. Or the girl saying, hey, we’ve been friends since their great i’m recommending that guy. You should trust me on this, you know? Obviously, that that’s where good customer service comes into play and that’s where corporate culture comes into play because i have a great experience with you and at your company, i’m going to tell my friend when they’re looking, and i will stake my personal reputation, there’s nothing stronger than that. And these are the people who want to breed at zoho willis that’s stronger than advertising strong of the marketing and they’re going to share people want to share that think about the internet runs on two things it runs on drama, drama and bragging are bragging and drama and if you if you need any proof of that, you know, go and look at all the hashtags with crap that’s happened, you know, bad customer service, bad, whatever, but then look at all the good hashtags you know, when our flight’s delayed for three hours and we’ll lose our seat. Oh my god, i hate this air land on the worst airline ever, but when we get upgraded, right hashtag first class bitches or whatever it is, you know it looks to me like that on the because we love to share it’s on ly a great experience. If we could tell the world and it’s only a bad experience, if we could make everyone else miserable about it as well. Need to take another break. Wagner. Sepa is they really do go way beyond the numbers they want you. They want you to know about these guides. The guides, they have many, many guides their help. You find your way through technical stuff. Break it down. Make it simple for you. Um, for example, ordered committee versus finance committee. If you’ve got these two committees, they’re different. What are the different roles and responsibilities? Um, this is one that hangs people up. You’ve heard me mention it before. Independent contractor versus employee checklist. Um, you don’t want to get snagged by your state department of labor or the federal, possibly department of labor and punch. Potentially be penalized. So i was talking about with tom. Was cell back-up early november. You want to do this right? Employees versus independent contractors, your disaster recovery plan. It sounds boring, but it’s important, if you have some kind of man made or natural disaster, where you going to go? How you going to run your non-profit business? How quickly can you be back-up serving people disaster recovery plan when he’s got something on that. Um, if your church church church internal audit plan, take a look at that bank statement review form. Take a look at that. All right again, wagner the going way beyond c p aying regular cps dot com click resource is then guides i plus software. You’ve heard me talk about this, the differences fund accounting that’s why you don’t want to be using quickbooks or microsoft or a p or turbo cash or something made for businesses fund accounting because you don’t want to miss spend money that has been given to you critical. Check him out. It’s apple owes accounting easy, affordable non-profit accounting non-profit wizard dot com now time for tony’s take two the state tax is lowering this or eliminating it going to hurt gif ts from the states ah, you’ll see it in my video. There is some evidence that when state taxes are low or we’ve had none in this country that it ah depress is charitable, giving the incentive isn’t there. People tend to give mohr to family, um, and reduce their reduce their giving to charities on dh. There are arguments on both sides. Um all right, so check out the video, you’ll well, i mean, i can’t be definitive, but i can’t talk about it on the video, and the video is at tony martignetti dot com talking about the state tax and whether it’s goingto hurt planned gif ts from estates and that is tony’s take two now back to peter shankman and zombie loyalists. Peter, you have a golden rule of social media that that a good number of customers like to share and people are going to keep doing it, people will always share again. It goes back to the concept that if you create great stuff, people want to share it because people like to be associated with good things. If you create bad stuff and buy stuff, i could mean i mean anything from, like, a bad experience too, that content people not only won’t share that, but we go out of their way to tell people how terrible you are. Yeah dahna you know, how many times have you seen companies fail horribly? You know, after major disasters when company’s heir tweeting, you know, completely unrelated things after after random school. Shooting? No, it was after the shooting at the theatre in aurora, colorado, the dark knight, the tweets hey, shooter’s, what’s your plans for this weekend, you know, and i’m just going, really, you know, but of course the thing was the thing was retweeted millions of times, you know, with a sort of shame on the so we were society, like i said earlier, that loves to share when when great things happen once but love to tell the world when we’re miserable, because we’re only truly miserable when you make everyone else miserable. Arika it’s funny you mentioned, ah, generosity siri’s the one of my favorite stories, which goes to sort of a bigger picture of culture, and somehow when you’re just doing your job because that’s what you’re supposed to do your job, but you don’t realize there are ways to get around that i i listened to your podcast, among others, when i’m running through central park on dh, more like if you know my body type more like lumbering through central park, but i get there, i’m in iron man have it and so i go to central park and it’s super early in the morning cause i usually have meetings and i dont run fast down. I run like i really dont run fast, but but as i’m running but let’s give you the credit that you have done a bunch of iron man, i have try that. The thing that i do, i do it. You know, my mother tells me that i just have very poor judgment in terms of what sports i should do. But on the flip side, i’m also a skydiver, which is with my weight is awesome. I fall better than anyone, you know, but so i’m running through central park last year. It was february, february of thirteen and fourteen of this year and it was pretty fun for forty five in the morning because i had a an idiom meaning and had to ten miles. So four foot every morning running about but labbate around nineteen, seventy ninth eightieth street on the east side in the park and a cop pulls me over and i said, what you doing? Look at him, you know, i’m wearing black spandex. I have a hat, it’s five degrees. I don’t wantto playing checkers, you know? Well, you know, i’m like i’m running and he’s like, okay, can you stop running? I’m like, okay, you get the park’s closed. Look, i’m in it. Look around, there are other people who know part doesn’t open exam like he’s ago would you have any idea? And you’re like, no, i’m running, he does what you name? I’m like seriously, look, i’m writing you a summons i’m like you ready metoo sametz for exercising for i just want to clarify that you’re writing metoo and sure enough, the guy wrote me a summons for exercising in central park before it opened. That charge was breaking the violating curfew. You know, i’m like i get the concept the curfew is to keep people out after two a m it’s not to prevent them going in early to exercise, to be healthy. I’m like, i’m not carrying, you know, a six pack, i’m not drinking a big gulp, i’m not smoking. I mean, i’m doing something healthy and you’re writing me a summons for it. Um, i said, you know, i’m gonna have a field day with this. I said, i kind of have some fathers, there will be a lot of fun i’m not you know, i know you’re just doing your job, sir, even though you have the discretion not to, but okay, so i go back home, take a picture, might take it, email it to a friend of mine in new york post front page, new york post next day. No running from this ticket, you know. In your times covered it, runner’s world covered. I mean, i went everywhere. Gawker covered it, you know? And my whole thing was just like, dude, you have discretion. Look at me, you know, i’m not i’m not even going super fast for god’s sake. I’m just just trying to exercise here, you know? And of course i went to court and i beat it. But how much money that cost the city for me to go to court fight this thing? You know, every employee you have to give your employees the power of discretion, of power, of empathy to make their own decisions. If you go by the book, bad things will happen. And again, small shops so much easier to do. Yeah, flatline flat organizations. I work with a non-profit animal rescue non-profit a friend of mine was a skydiver and shut him out. But i can’t but there’s a friend of mine scott ever and she was killed in a base jump several years ago, and her husband asked to donate in her memory to this non-profit so i sent him a check. And about three months later, i get a coffee table book in the mail and i was living by myself the time i didn’t own a coffee table. It was you no more money to spend on my flatscreen and i ah, remember, i call i look at this coffee table guy throw i throw in the corner, i look at it over next couple days, it pisses me off about how much, how much of my donation did it cost to print? Melon produced this book to me, and so i called them up. Well, sure, we believe most of our donors are older and pry prefer to get a print version as opposed to, like digital, you know, where they throw it away like you don’t throw digitally, but okay, i’m like so so you’ve asked your you’ve done surveys in, you’ve asked all you know, we just assume the most number older i’m like, i open my mouth one of joining the board and spent the next year interviewing customers, interviewing every current and past donor-centric get their information and shock pre-tax ninety four percent said online, and so over the following year, we launched facebook page, twitter, page zoho flicker account, youtube everything p s the following year for that donations went up thirty seven percent in one year in that economies, right ran away tonight, donations went up thirty seven percent in one year, and they saved over five hundred thousand dollars in printing malian reproduction. Imagine going your boss boss revenues up thirty seven percent and we save the half million dollars in boston about your really good beer. You know, all they had to do was listen to their audience, be relevant to the audience you have, and they will tell you what they want. We have tons of tools for segment. My god, you’ve gotta listen to what segment you want people want to be, you know, someone? Someone asked me today. You know what, what’s the best way i knew nothing about their company what’s the best social media left me to be on should be on twitter shevawn facebook i said, i’ll answer that question if you can answer this this this question to ask you is my favorite type of cheese gouda or the number six they said, i understand that’s not a real question like neither is yours like i can’t tell you where the best place to be your audience. Can i said, go ask your audience, believe me, they will tell you, there’s a gas station, the midwest come and go. I just love the name kumo, angio and their tag around. But you can read more about the tagline is always something extra. I mean, come on the jokes just write themselves for god’s sake, but they don’t take themselves too seriously love that. Come on ghost knowing the name of the company gas station and, you know, i remember there in iowa and i went to visit a friend in iowa, and i was like, you’ve got to get a photo of you in front of coming goes on, and the beauty of this is that and some of their employees actually look at their customers when they’re on their phones. We start to go, you know what? Use twenty more facebook and they say, oh, you and they record the information and they know it customers will give you so much info if you just ask them, because then they feel invested, they feel invest in your company, they feel like they that you took the time to listen to their non-profit requests of their their their questions, and they feel like they’re nufer harrow every month we have a one question harrow survey, you know, heroin question survey, and it was we get like a thousand people responded spend entire weekend emailing everyone responded, thanking them personally and touchpoint hyre weekend, but it was great because we’ll wind up happening is that? You know, if we took their advice and launch it on monday with the new thing, they oh, my god, how did this? They took my advice. Yeah was your advice to a hundred other people advice, but we took it and they don’t like it and it just it just made them so much more loyal, and they tell hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people we get in. There were days i got there days where i was in temple one morning, the garment center, synagogue and my phone. I feel like phone getting really hot in my pocket, which is not normal, and i’m starting her on i look at it it’s almost on fire. It had frozen because we were mentioned in seth gordon’s morning blogged. Oh, and at that time i was getting emails every time we get a new subscriber and the phone actually frozen and was locked and and was, like overheating i t at the battery and, like, reset the entire phone because we’ve got so many new fourteen thousand subscribers in, like, three hours scene obscene, you say excuse me, you say that customer service is the new advertising, marketing and pr? Yeah, it really is. Well, again, you know, if we’re moving to that world where so imagine a lot of limp and i love that i can use this. Now imagine a lot of land latto lamb has water, oil and a heat source, right heat source heats the oil, the oil flows with water, it makes pretty colors i’ve heard it looks really good when you’re high now i’ve heard. Now imagine if crystal’s imagine if you’re, uh, everyone you meet in your network, okay, is a drop of oil. The water is your network and what is your world? Everyone you meet in your network from from the guy you’re sitting doing the radio interview with to the guy who serves you ice cream with local deli to the guy who does your dry cleaning to your girlfriend to your wife to not same time to your kids. Second grade teacher to your second grade teacher years ago. Everyone you meet is in your network, you know, right now, when facebook for started, i would see the same weight from a kid. It was junior high school his posted on the same weight as like my current girlfriend, which is ridiculous. I don’t need to know about everything my friend from junior high school’s doing, having talked to kate in fifteen years, his face was getting a lot smarter, as has google. Now i see the people labbate kate with the most okay. And if i if i reach out to communicate with new people, they start rising and my feet in my stream if i don’t, they fall it’s just like a lava lamp. Every person you connect with is a drop of oil that heat source at the bottom that’s rising, raising or lowering those drops of oil is relevance. So imagine the heat sources relevance and the more i interact with someone, the more the higher they go in my network in the more i see of them, the more trust level there is when i’m at a bar and i meet someone at a restaurant unconference i meet someone i don’t need to, um connect them. I don’t need to go on facebook friend request, you know, awkward friend requesting is when you seven think that lesson my friend requested some of the real world with second grade will you be my friend? My daughter is doing that because, you know it’s like cat will you be my friend? Kind of the captain will be here, but, you know it’s, this awkward thing who the hell friendly west someone if i find hang out with you, the bar and we connect again and we talk and we go out to dinner and we’re having a good time with friends. I don’t need to first request that you, you know, that’s going away, friending following liking and fanning is all going away. What will interact is the actual connection. So if i meet with you and i have a good time with you and we talk again, if i use your business if i go to your non-profit if i donate if i volunteer, whatever the network knows that the more i do that the more interact. With you, the more you have the right to market to me and the more you will be at the top of my stream in the more i will see information about you, the less i will have tio search for you. But if you do something stupid or we’re no longer friends xero you’re going to fade. I don’t unfriend you just disappear. Unfriending is also dated a woman we broke up. It was nine months after we broke up. There was one from the other one because it’s just awkward zoho kapin friend of me. But you know the causes of not having to do that of just, you know, okay, i haven’t talked in a while. I don’t see your post anymore. The real world that’s how it should be and if you’re not feeding zombie loyalists, yes, they can start to defect. No question about it. I wanted to spend a little time on if you’re not reading now you are talking to them, giving them what they want, talking about their information, helping them out. They will gladly go somewhere else with someone who is, you know, if i have a great experience of the restaurant every week for three years, and then all of a sudden, over time, of noticing less and less that restaurant’s doing less and less tio, take care of me, you know, and maybe management’s change, and i don’t feel that, you know, i’m ripe for being infected by another company. I’m right for someone else comes to, you know, peter, because if i tweet some like, wow can’t believe i have to wait forty minutes for a table that didn’t used to be like that. If if someone else a smart restaurant, they’re following me and they’re going great, you know, appears no, wait, no way over here. Why don’t you come to blocks north? We’ll give you a free drink, you know, you know, and that right there that’s first sign of infection and i might become infected by another by another company because mommy little us for them and so let’s take you have a lot of good examples. Let’s, take a one on one situation. How can we start to cure that? The simple act of realizing following your customers, understanding when they’re not happy and fixing the situation before it escalates, you can contain a small outbreak a small outbreaks. Well, viral outbreak. You can contain that by getting the right people. Finding out what the problem is getting them to one room, fixing their problem, healing them. You have a good united story right back. When was continental? I was a frequent flyer and booked a trip to paris. Andi, i was very angry because they charged me four hundred dollars, looking for you. I remember what it was and that i called the ceo just just for the hell of it. I’m like i’m going. I wrote a letter or an e mail. So this is before social, right friend wrote an email, the ceo and like this ridiculous. I’m freaking fired-up like three months later, my phone rings hello, peter, please hold for larry kellman, ceo of coming little and i’m like, oh, crap, you know? And i got your telephone he’s like peter hated misjudgment e-giving started these fees of their new way. We sent that note. I’m getting it and see it. We’re gonna weigh them for you. But if you have any more problems, you know, feel free to call me and end of the phone the next forty minutes. What is staring at it like, holy crap? Larry kellner, the ceo of united airlines, just called me and talk to me and it was like, it was like, god coming down and say, you now have the power to levitate your cat. It was just ridiculous and so, you know, i have been faithful to continental and now united ever since on dh they continue to treat me with respect and do great things, and they’re they’re improving. They were getting a lot of crap over the past several years and that there really are starting to improve its nice to say, and not only, of course, your own loyalty, but you’re oh, my god, how zombie loyalist for them and how many times how much it’s unquote fired-up latto bradrick attract so many friends to united? I’ve made so many friends. I mean my father, you know, he only fleshing out it now, which means he only drag. He dragged my mom on the internet and i only drink my wife. You know, there’s a lot of lot of work that way we gotta go away for a couple of minutes when we come back. Of course. Peter and i’m going to keep talking about his book comes out in january. Zombie loyalists got to take a break. Tell us credit card and payment processing it’s passive residual revenue for you pays you each month. If you become one of their non-profit partners, you will get fifty percent of every dollar that tello’s urns from the businesses that you refer. And how do you do that? You think about the businesses that air that are already supporting you, whether it’s something local or something bigger that supporting you, is it possible for them to switch their credit card payment processing? I guess odds are it’s going to be something local? Smaller business is going to have a lot more control over who processes their credit card payments. Think of businesses owned by your board. Think of businesses down the street, you know, in the neighborhood family businesses. If they’re taking credit cards, they could potentially be a referral from you to tell us. And remember that special non-profit radio offer that that tell us has if teller’s can’t save them money, you are going to get two hundred fifty dollars a gift to you from tell us. If tellers can’t help them, so make those merchant referrals think about the business is that are that are supporting you that air in your community that take credit cards, it’s like every business. Um, those can all be potential referrals. Tell those payment processing, tony dahna may slash tony tell us now, back to peter shankman and his book zombie loyalists. You have some examples of zombie loyalist leaving and mass like dominoes netflix they’re both they’re both in the book so it’s so one leaving, if you know if you know, start the cure one leaving, yeah, and then that’s the thing you know, the little experience, maybe the internet with the hashtag everything like that, you know, it doesn’t take a long time for those things to sort of blow up in your face and, you know, the other day, everyone say, oh, you know, twitter’s responsible for for us losing another, you’re responsible for you losing? Yeah, yeah, and if your product isn’t great and you’re your actions, don’t speak well of who you are, then there’s no reason your customers should stay with you, you know? And it was all social media is really hurting. I know you’re hurting yourself. The only difference is that social media makes it easier for the world to know. Yeah, they’re just telling the story. Dominoes and netflix are good examples. They bounce back, they took responsibility and yeah, they both owned dominoes came out and said, you know what? You’re right, our pizza and we do have a problem. We’re going to fix this and they spent millions fixing it, and sure enough, they’re back with a vengeance. Now i may or may not even ordered the maroons in awhile, and i live in your city that’s, that’s a that’s, a sacrilege. But, you know, i have the app on my phone from oversea no traveling, somewhere being should bring or whatever and you know what? Do you get it? Eleven thirty at night when your flight’s delayed me landed dahna um, which reminds me i should go exercise on flip side looked so much like netflix. They they also were screwed up, you know, they were losing that trial switch between the two. They came up with a new name and it was so gross and public. Oh, man again, you’re watching the same thing happen with uber right now, so we really need to see if they’re able to repair themselves. Listening is important, but both those both those two examples they’d listen to their customers think there’s a problem with listening because everyone’s been saying, listen, listen, listen, for months and years and years and years now, but you know, no one ever says that you have to do more than just listening to listen actually follow-up you know, it’s one thing to listen, you know, i used to have my wife, i could sit there and listen to her for hours, you know? But i don’t actually say anything back she’s just smack me, you know, and go to the other room, and so you really have to it’s a two way street, you know, listening is great but can’t respond and look, i think further, and i was like, oh, twitter, so great, because someone was complaining on twitter and we went online, we we’ve saw the complaint that we fixed their problem in yes, how about if the problem that exist in the first place, you know? Because the great thing about twitter is that, yeah, people complain on twitter the bad thing about it is there complaining about you on twitter so it’s like what if the problem didn’t exist in the first place? What if? What if you empowered your front desk clerk to fix the problem so that i didn’t have to tweet hurts is my favorite story of all this i used to rent from her it’s religiously, and then i went to aa phoenix sky harbor airport has past april and i gave it i was giving a speech and go on my name’s supposed be on the board, you know, second grade that car and it wasn’t okay. What happened? I’m going upstairs. I weighed forty minutes on the v i p line after forty minutes they finally say, you know there’s a on ly one guy here a lot of people might have better chance we go in the regular line. Okay? Probably told us that a little earlier in the regular spend forty five minutes waiting the regular line it’s now been are you tweeting while this is happening? Well, i had to know i was actually not only tweeting i don’t have time to create a mean that should give you some idea. Of how long i was online with myself on those over, even if that means i get to the counter. How i can help you. Yeah, i was downstairs. The vp doesn’t tell me. Owe you have the appearance of asian intern upstairs? Like yeah. Ok. Let’s, let’s put a pin in that. They just sent me up here. Like, right. They have to help you. Well, it’s. Not really. They you guys for the same company. I mean, i could see the reservation on the screen. You you can help me. Sorry, sir. I can’t help. You have to go to the next. Like you just next to me. Okay. So if you know anything about sky harbor airport in phoenix, all of the rental car coming through on the same place. Yeah. So i walked fifty feet. It’s a bus takes you to the big a big a civilian where they’re all next week. I walked fifty feet from the cesspool of filth. Depravity that was hurts to the wonderful zen garden of tranquility that was avis and inform, innit? And i had a nicer, cheaper, more nicer, less expensive car given to a woman named phyllis who? Was sixty six and moved to phoenix from detroit with her husband for his asthma. I knew this because she told me she smiled at me, she brought her manager out and said that’s, another refugee from hertz, and i said, this happens a lot. They’re like, yeah, i’m like, well, you think they have done something about it and so on the way out in avis, i thank them. I walk past her, so i shoot on this, you know, sort of look at the look of the beast. I get my avis carnage at my hotel wanted to tel. I write a wonderful block post about my experience, called peter, and hurts in the terrible, horrible nobody could really bad customer experience. What you have a kid, you find rewriting titles about your blood post that have to do with kids books. I do not like hurts, sam, i am and and i included in this block post the five things i’d rather do than ever rent from hurts again. I think number three was was ah ride a razor blade bust through a lemon juice waterfall. With just, you know, and it’s a bit, but of course, the next day hurts reaches out to me. Oh, miss jay manuel, this is ahead of north american customer service that’s all you’re back, i’m like like, you know, we’d love to have make no like you’re not going to fix the problem. Number one seven avis car. I’m never going back to her it’s number two through a five people yesterday, five people interacted with all of whom had the chance to save me and keep me is a customer for life, a customer who have been so happy and i would have loved you five people blew it, so don’t waste your time trying to convert me back. You’re not going to know what you want to do is spend some of that energy retraining your staff to have empathy and to give them the ability and the empowerment to fix my problem when it happens, because five people, it takes every single employee to keep her company running. It takes one to kill it. Yeah, p s avis reached out to thank me personally. And i am now just this ridiculously huge loyal fan of avis. And always will be. You have a pretty touching story, but when you worked in a yogurt shop, you’re really young. We have a couple minutes tell it tell it could stay that was in the east side, which again, is yet another reason why i live on the west side. Nothing good ever happens in manhattan’s east side, so i was i was working and i can’t believe it’s yogurt, which was a store that i think back in the i c b y no, no t c b y was the country’s best yogurt the countries i c b i why was a poor i can’t believe that you can’t believe is that your family was yogurt was a poor attempt to capitalize on his teamviewer working in this store, and i go in every day and make thee over to clean the floors. I do, you know, a typical high school job, and it was during the summer and houses people walking by things like second avenue or something. And there were these brass poles that hyung from you know there was awning, right? That’s elearning that there and then the brass poles that held the awning. Up and they were dirty as hell, right? I’m sure they’ve never been polished ever. And i found i found some brass polish in the back with all the beer in the back and went after anyone outside. And i’m positive polishing the polls. My logic was, if the polls are shiny, people saw them, maybe they come in the store, maybe they’d want toe, you know, buy more screenplays and the manager came out, what the hell you doing? Told him what i thought. I’ll pay you to think inside, you know, like there’s. No customers in there. Okay, i’ll make sure the yogurt still pumping it full blast and i quit. I just quit that job. I mean, like, i couldn’t even begin to understand why someone would invest. I mean, t own a franchise bring fifty grand to at least to buy that franchise. Why wouldn’t he invest in the two seconds it took a little elbow grease to make the police claim that might bring in more customers? What the hell, you know, but you’re not paid to think you’re not paid to think my favorite line. Yeah, i just i i encourage if any kids. Listening. Those teenagers. If you. If you boss says that to you, quit quit, i will hire you. Just quit it. Probably worse thing in the world that you could possibly do, because you have customers who you have customers who every day could be helped by people who are paid to think and that’s the one you want. We gotta wrap up, tell me what you love about the work you do. I get paid to talk. I mean, my god is the same stuff i use get trouble for in high school, but on a bigger picture, what i really love about it is being able to open someone’s eyes and haven’t come back to me. I run a series of masterminds called shank mines, business masterminds, shank minds, dot com there day long seminars around the country, and i had someone come to meet so, you know, i took your advice about x y z, and i started listening little more, and i just got the largest retainer client i’ve ever had in my life by a factor for she goes, and i just can’t even thank you never said gorgeous by-laws aki listselect kayman thank you enough. Oh, my god, being able to help people. You know, at the end of the day, we’re i’ve yet to find another planet suitable for life. I’m looking so we’re all in this together and if that’s the case, you know, why wouldn’t we want to help people just little bit more? You know, there really isn’t a need to be as do she is as we are as a society, we could probably all be a little nice to each other, and you’d be surprised if it’ll help. The book is zombie loyalists, published by pal grave mcmillan comes out in january. You’ll find peter at shankman dot com, and on twitter at peter shankman. Peter, thank you so much. Thank you. Next week, dennis miller returns with a guide to hiring your next ceo. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant regular c p a’s, guiding you beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com stoploss accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing, you’re passive revenue stream tony dahna slash tony tello’s, a creative producers claire meyerhoff sam lever, which is the line producer. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and the green heimans buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for December 16, 2016: Zombie Loyalists

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My Guest:

Peter Shankman: Zombie Loyalists

Peter Shankman

Peter Shankman is a well-known and often-quoted social media, marketing and public relations strategist. His latest book is “Zombie Loyalists.” He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and PR for you. He’s got super ideas and lots of valuable stories. (Originally broadcast 12/19/14)

 

 

 


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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with pro death ecosystem if you infected me with the idea that you missed today’s show zombie loyalists peter shankman is a well known and, uh, often quoted social media marketing and public relations strategist. His latest book is zombie loyalists. He wants you to create rabid fans who do your social media, marketing and pr for you. He’s got super ideas and lots of valuable stories. This is from the december nineteen twenty fourteen show. I’m tony steak too. My good wishes for your year end fund-raising we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com here’s Peter shankman from the 12:19 fourteen show on zombie loyalists. I’m very glad peter shankman is with me in the studio. He is the founder of haro help a reporter out connecting journalists with sources in under two years from starting it in his apartment, hora was sending out fifteen hundred media queries a week to more than two hundred thousand sources worldwide, it was acquired by vocus in two thousand ten. He’s, the founder and ceo of the geek factory, a boutique social media marketing and pr strategy firm in new york city, peter is on nasa’s civilian advisory council. You’ll find him at shanklin dot com and he’s at peter shankman on twitter. His latest book is zombie loyalists using great service to create rabbit advance. I’m very glad his book brings him to non-profit radio and the studio welcome. Peter had to be here, honey, thanks. Pleasure. You live on the west side of manhattan and you and you there’s a there’s, a pretty well known five star steakhouse. I’ll get wolfgang’s not far from you know, but you pass it to go to a different steakhouse, right? Morton’s? Correct. Why is that more? I’m a zombie loyalist to morton’s. What does that mean? I love the service. The attention to detail, the quality, the sort of where everyone knows my name mentality. When i walk into that morton’s or any mortons around the world, they have a tremendous custom relationship management system. When i call one number ah, in new york or anywhere in the world, it they know who i am by my cell phone, and i’m treated with just, you know, phenomenal, uh, happiness toe here for me. And my wishes are granted is aware, and we have any happy hour holiday party coming up at morton’s next couple days, and, you know, as always, i forgot to call and make a reservation, you know, called and yesterday and said, hey, i need a and she has to get a reservation for seven people. Dahna you know, there’s a night at, uh, seven p m, which is, you know, the week of holiday party, and they looked and they said, oh, well, and then i guess their computer system kicked in. Of course, mr chang is not a problem. I’ll get that for you right away. You know, how it will have a great booth for you that, you know, and we’ll tell us names the people attending and, you know, you know, you know, they’re going to specialize menus for them and their names on they really they have ah, really high level of service that they provide, not just to me, that’s the beauty of it, you know, it’s one thing for everybody. Yeah, it’s one thing if they just provided to me but they do that for everyone, and that is huge because, you know, being able to call when a normal person makes reservation and not that i’m special, i’m actually rather abnormal. But what a normal person makes a reservation and says no more tests. Okay, greater. You’re celebrating it? You think so? Yeah. It’s, my wife’s birthday. I would always always ask after anyone said, oh, you know what? It’s, my wife’s birthday great what’s her name and her name’s. Megan, whatever. And you you go in and they and you sit down on the on the menu. It has happened that they make it. And then megan, whoever she happens to be well in the next forty five minutes, you know, taking fifty selfies with her menu and that’ll go online. And when her friends, you know, want that same experience, they’re going to go morton’s, you say in the book, you get the customers you want by being beyond awesome to the customers you have and that’s why i want to start with that morton’s story, which is in the middle of the book. But they do it for everybody, and then they have the vips as well. And there’s the terrific story of you tweeting. Going to tell that story that’s a good story, but it’s a good story. Stories. I was flying home from a day trip to florida and was exhausted and starving and they trip, meaning you’re flying down a canoe down to six a m lunch meeting flew back same day, you know, one of those one of those days and ah, i jokingly said the tweet hey, morton’s. What? You meet me at newark airport when i land with a porterhouse in two hours. Ha ha ha ha ha! Um, you know, i said it the same way you’d say winter. Please stop snowing things like that. And i landed find my driver and said, next, my driver is a is ah, waiter in a tuxedo with the mortons back they saw my tweet. They put it together. They managed to bring me a a steak. And and you know, as great of a story is that is that that’s it’s a great stunt. And it’s a great story. And it wasn’t staged. It was completely amazing. But, you know, that’s not what they’re about. They’re not about delivering steaks to airports. They’re about making a great meal for you and treating you like world when you come in. And you know, if they just did that if they just delivered the stake the airport, but their quality and service sucked, you know, it wouldn’t be a story, you know, you know what they did for peter, but you know, my steak’s cold, you know? So what it really comes down to is the fact they do treat everyone like kings and that’s that’s really, really important because what winds up happening? You have a great experience of morton’s, and then you tell the world, you know, oh, yeah, great dinner last night, that was amazing, i would totally there again. And as we moved to this new world where, you know, review sites are going away and i don’t, i don’t need to go to yelp reviews and people i don’t know, you know, if they’re shills, whatever the case may be, i don’t know or trip advisor, same thing i want people in my network. Who i trust and people in their network who they trust and that by default i trust so and that’s going to that’s already happening automatically. You know, when i when i land in l a and i type in steakhouse, you know, not me. I know. I know what the steak house on telly, but if someone typed into google maps or facebook steak house in los angeles, you know they’ll see all the steakhouses on google map. But if any of their friends have been to any of them, they’ll see those first. And if they had a good experience, only if the sentiment is positive will they see those first and that’s pretty amazing, because if you think about that, the simple act of tweeting at a photo oh my god, thanks so much more in love this that’s positive sentiment the network knows that. And so if you’re looking for a steakhouse, you know and your friend six months ago had that experience oh, my god! Amazing state this great place the sentiment will be there on dh. The network will know that network will show you that steakhouse because you trust your friend and this is where we start to cultivate zombie loyalists. Exactly is through this awesome customer service of the customers. You you have say more about something. Yeah, i mean, you have so many companies out there who are trying to get the next greatest customer. You know, you see all the ads, you know, the facebook post, you know, we’re at nine hundred ninety, followers are ten are one thousand follower gets a free gift. Well, that’s kind of saying screw you to the original nine hundred ninety followers who you had, who were there since the beginning. We don’t care about you. We want that one thousand, you know, that’s not cool. The the companies who see their numbers rise and you see their fans increase in there. There ah, revenues go up are the ones who are nice to the customers they have. Hey, you know, customer eight fifty two. It was really nice of you to join us a couple months ago. How do you know? How are you? We notice that you posted on something about a you know, your car broke down? Well, you know, we’re not in the car business, but you know you’re you’re two blocks from our our closest ah outlet or whatever. And, you know, once if you need to come in, have a cup of coffee, will you use the phone? Whatever. You know, those little things that you could do that, that that really focus on the customers you haven’t make the customers you have the ones where the zombies who tell other customers have great your and this all applies to non-profits certainly as well the question, but even more so. Yeah, i mean, if you know non-profits constant worry about howto make the most value out of their dollar on how to keep the dollar stretching further and further. And you know you have this massive audience who has come to you, who’s a non-profit who said to you, you know, we want to help here we are volunteering our help and just simply treating them with the thanks that they deserve. Not just a simple hey, thanks for doing her, but actually reaching out, asking what theywant asking how they like to get the information. Things like that will greatly increase your donations as well as making them go out and tell everyone how awesome you are. Letting them to your p r for you and that’s what a zombie loyalist does and this is for this could be donors could be volunteers in the organization who aren’t able to give a lot, but giving time is enormous. And if you know if they have such a great time doing it, they’ll bring friends as as zombies do. You know zombies have one purpose in life? A real zombies have one purpose in life that’s to feed it doesn’t matter how the mets are doing it doesn’t matter, you know, because chance they lost anyway. But it doesn’t matter how. How anyone’s doing you know, what’s going on in the world economy. It doesn’t matter what matters was zombie is where they get their next meal because they feed and they have to infect more people. Otherwise they will die zombie loyalist to the same thing. All they have to do is make sure that their custom, they tell the world we all have that friend who does it. You know that one friend who eats eat nothing but the olive garden because, oh, my gods greatest breadsticks everywhere, you know, and they will drag your ass. The olive garden every single time they get that chance. That’s, a zombie loyalist and you want them to do that for your non-profit and there’s. A big advantage to being a smaller, smaller organization. You could be so much more high touch and we’re gonna talk about all that. We got the full hour with peter shankman. Gotta go away for a couple minutes. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamental lt’s, a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, peter, it doesn’t take much, teo stand out in the customer service world doesn’t really doesn’t, you know, and the reason for that is because we expect to be treated like crap, you know, if you think about that book, i love this example, whenever i give speeches, i ask, i ask everyone the audience, like, who here has had a great flight recently, like at least one personal raise their hands, like, ok, what made it great and without fail there? And, well, we took off on time and i had the cd was a sign, and we landed on time and, like, so you paid for a service, they delivered that service, and you’re over the freaking moon about it, like that’s the state that we’ve become, you know, that’s how bad customer service has been that you are just beyond thrilled that they did exactly what they said they were going to win, nothing more less than twenty minutes in the post office line exam, and i’m ecstatic exactly, you know, it’s it’s. So we really are at a point where we only have to be one level above crap. I’m not even asking my client to be good. Just one level of crap. You know, if everyone else is crapping your one level above that, you’re going to win my favorite. My favorite jokes, thie two guys air out in the woods, hunting in the woods and the just it was the first one sees a bear and they see this barren bears raised upleaf about to strike and the first one reaches down and tightens up his laces on his running shoes and it was the studio don’t be community, you can’t outrun a bear and i don’t need to understand how wrong you know, i love that joke because it’s it’s so true that’s the concept, you know, all you have to do is be just a little bit better than everyone else, and you’ll win the whole ball game. Now we have to set some things up internally in orderto have the structure in place, no question about it to create the zombie loyalists. Yeah, i mean, you have a you have a aa company where the majority of people in your company are afraid to do anything outside the norm. You know, i mean, lookit, lookit a cellphone companies, you know, they call them cause you have a problem, right? T or t mobile. You call them your problem? They’re actually the customer service. We’ll handle your caller actually judged and rewarded based on how quickly they can get you off the phone. You know, not on whether or not they fix your problem fat, but how fast they could get you off the phone. Which means how many more causing everybody worked. When i worked in america online, we all had to do a day of customer service every month just to see what it was like. That was a brilliant idea. But, you know, again, it’s just it was a system called vantage for you to sign on. And as soon as you signed on, if you want to call, you know that was tacked against you, if you’re in a call and it went over a certain amount of time that was tacked against you. So the decks were stacked not in the favor. The customer. There are some companies out there who allowed there customer service employees to simply be smarter about what they dio and do whatever it is they need to do to fix the problem. You know, my favorite story about this verizon wireless? I went overseas, as in dubai, and i landed two buy-in attend my phone had gotten global roaming on my phone, which, you know, twenty bucks for every hundred megabits. Okay, so i land and i turn on my phone and it says, like before i’m even off the plane, i get a text that you’ve used two hundred dollars in roaming charges. What? How, you know, three hundred dollars, by telling it off the planet. We’re something’s up here, so i called horizon on a nice guy answer the phone and oh, yeah, i mean, you know, the first thing that was yes, sir, you do have global roaming, but it doesn’t work in dubai. Okay, well, that’s not really global that’s more hemispherical roaming, i think is the issue. And so i said, well, look, i’m gonna be here for a week i said, you know what? You have my credit card, bill me like, cubine bilich a thousand bucks and you let me have the phone for, like, a week and you know that, you know five hundred bucks. I won’t go over to gigs would just do something for me. Sorry, sir, i’m not authorized to do that. You can look. So what i have is well, you can pay twenty dollars and forty eight cents a megabyte. I’m like i’m sorry. Seriously, which equates essentially to be charged. Twenty thousand forty eight seconds, three thousand forty eight cents for every i think, the times for every four seconds of the video gangnam style if i decide to watch my phone like this is pretty ridiculous. So i simply hung up. I’m hung up on your eyes and i went down the street to the dubai. The mall of the emirates, which is the largest mall in the world, is a freaking ski slope in it, and i’m not joking. And as a ski slope in this mall and went to one of like the eighty six different electronic stores in this mall bought an international unlocked version of the same exact cell phone. I have went next door to the local sim card store spot, eh? Sim card that gave me twenty gigabytes of data and a thousand minutes of talk for forty dollars. I then put that in my phone because i it’s an android phone. I simply typed in my user name and password for google and everything imported. And verizon did not get a penny on that trip. How easy would have been from horizon to say. Okay, you know what? We’ll cut your brake. Ah, they still make a lot of money off me. And i would tell the world how great verizon was to work with and how wonderfully, how helpful they were. Instead, they guaranteed that i will never. They will never make a penny from any international trip. And i take what? Fifteen of them a year? Because now my cell phone, um, my international cell phone that i bought all i do is pop out the sim card on my land, wherever i am put in a new sim card. So and you’re speaking and writing and telling that story, of course. And then rittereiser and every time i tell the story about variety, i make it a little worse. Apparently verizon tests out the durability of their phone by throwing them kittens. I read this in internet must, you know, so that is so, but you know, the concept that all they had to do, all the energy was in power mark right now, and it wasn’t mark’s fault mark was a really nice guy, but he was not allowed to do that. He would get fired if you try to do a deal like that for me and so it’s this concept, you know, and the funny thing is it comes down to it if you really want to go go down the road in terms of a public company like verizon of where the issue is, you could even trace it to fiduciary responsibility because the fiduciary responsibility of any company’s ceo all the way down the employees to make money for the shareholders future responsibly means by not allowing me and they don’t allow a mark the customer service agent to to help me on dh take a different tack. He’s actually losing money. Too many ceos think about the next quarter. Oh, we have to make our number six quarter. I’m fired companies and other countries to anything with next quarter century, and they make a much bigger difference because he okay, what can we do now that we’ll have impact? In the next five, ten, fifteen years, you know, and really implement the revenue that we have and an augment and cos america don’t don’t think about that that’s a big problem? I’d buy a product line, it has a lot of natural and recycled materials seventh generation and they’re they’re tagline is that in in our every decision, we must consider the impact on the next seven generations? It comes from an american indian, it’s great it’s a great line. I mean, just think about how much money horizon would have made for me in the past three years over just just my overseas you’d be telling a story about like them, about morten, like the one about things? Look, a lot of people listen to me, and they went for a time when you googled roaming charges variety when you google verizon roaming charges my story about, however, how i saved all this money really big what came up first because i did the math and if i had not called mark and bought my own self-funding done this, i would have come home with thirty one thousand dollars cellphone bill, and you’re damn authorizing wouldn’t know anything. About that would be like up to bad. Sorry about the fine print and plus the employee who sold you the quote international plan, right? I’m sure you told her, didn’t she said, where you going? I’m going to canada and i’m going to dubai. I’m assuming she didn’t know where to buy, wass shevawn we thought it was near canada, but yeah, long story short couldn’t use it. All right, so employees have to be empowered there’s to be we have to be, but changing a thinking too. I mean, the customer has to come first. The donor of the volunteers don’t volunteer. You get at the end of the day, where’s your money coming from look, if you’re non-profit or fortune one hundred words, money coming from, you know and if you no, we see it happening over and over again. We’ve seen what you’re seeing right now play out every single day with company uber, uber it’s so funny because uber makes you know the value of forty million dollars right now, but that doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything if people are running away in joe’s, which people are there’s a whole delete uber app movement that the lord god you people are doing what’s the problem well, it’s several number one that uber is run by a bunch of guys who honor the bro code. The company was actually started by a guy who, in on business in business insider, said he started the company to get laid. His goal was to always of a black car. When he was leaving a restaurant to impress the girl he was with that’s, he came out and said that and you see that culture run rampant throughout uber from their god mode where they can see they actually create there was ah, don’t read this my business centre as well. There was they created a hookup page that showed or ah, walk of shame page that showed where good women were leaving certain apartments like on weekends oneaccord believing certain place on weekends, going back to their home. It was obvious that they, you know, some guy, and i think they did that. And of course, just there their whole surge pricing mentality, which is, you know, two days ago there was a couple of symbolism. The terrorists of the figures is harris attacking in sydney? At that, at that bakery and sidney, uber and sydney instituted surge pricing for people trying to get out of harm’s way, you know? And and they later refund it all was a computer glitch. I’m you know, i’m sorry you have a stop button and you can when you see something happening like that, there has to be someone in the office, you know what? Not cool. We’re going to take care of that and hit the stop button, and it was, yeah, bad tons and tons tons of bad publicity. You know, i was having an argument with one of my facebook page facebook dot com slash peter shankman because they said, oh, you know, so what? They don’t they don’t turn surge pricing and have enough cabs there and, you know, people can’t get home i said, i’m pretty sure that the on ly come, but i’m sure that no one had cab companies there. I’m sure that there wasn’t anyone who had enough cars. They’re private cabs, uber’s, whatever yet the on ly stories i read about companies screwing up during the event where uber not joe’s sydney cab company, you know, i didn’t see him. Staring up because he didn’t turn on surge pricing, you got it. You got to respect your customer after as we’re ah training for that then not only trying to change that mine ships well in in trying to change that mindset rewards for a custom, for employees that do take go to go the extra mile. Well, first of all, if you give the employees the ability to do it to go the extra mile and understand they won’t get fired, you’re not going to get in. Try always to tell every one of my employees you never get in trouble for spending a little extra money to try and keep a customer happy you’ll get fired for not doing it, you know you got fired for not for seeing an opportunity to fix someone and not taking doing everything that you could know what’s carl is famous for that rhys caldnear hires people not because whether they could pull the bed sheet, but for how well they understand people. Because in wisconsin’s, mind it’s much more important to be a people person and be able to be empathetic and that it’s such a key word empathy is just so sorely lacking. You know how much you’ve called customer service? Yeah. You know, i have to have to change my flight. Might my my aunt just died. I really tio. Okay, great that’s, three dollars. I just wanted one hour earlier. You know, you show up at the airport, your bag is overweight by half a pound. That’s twenty five dollars. I just can you can you just cut me some slack, you know, so empathy and giving the custom, giving the employees the ability to understand that the customer that sometimes you can make exceptions and it is okay to make changes. And this is where a smaller organization has huge advantage. It’s, easier to change. That’s what kills me. You know, i go to these try to frequent small businesses when i can i get you something small businesses, and they won’t. They act like large businesses, you know, in the respect that they don’t have. Ah, like they want to be respected almost don’t have like a six a six thousand page code that they have to adhere to. They can simply ah do something on the fly. And yet, for whatever reason, they won’t do it and it’s the most frustrating famous and what guys, you’re acting like a big you act like mega lo mart here, you know, and you’re not mega lo mart, and you’re just joe’s house of stationary, whatever it is and, you know, not be able to help me, you’re pretty much killing yourself because you don’t have eighty five billion customers that come to the door after me, you know? But i have a pretty big network. And for a small business, two get killed socially as social becomes more and more what? How we communicate, you know, it’s, just craziness. It’s, you know, we’re pretty much in a world, i think where something almost hasn’t happened to you unless unless you share it a joke that, you know, if i can take a selfie was i really there but it’s true. You know, we do live in a world where, you know, i remember god ten years ago, maybe not even not even ten years ago. I was one of the first people to have a phone in my camera, you know? And it was like that from that’s. What? I said, yeah, i carry in my phone. Right? And it was like a i think a point, eight megapixels, you know, it looked like i was taking a picture with a potato, but it was it was thiss i remember it was two thousand two and i was in chase bank, and there was a woman arguing with the teller, and i pulled out my video, you know, it was there the crappiest video you’ve received, i pulled out and i said, you know, i started recording and the one being the cat woman wasn’t the woman behind the counter was talking to the customers saying you do not speak to me that way. You get out of this bank right now and the customers saying, i just wanted my balance in u n yur manager comes over, i get this whole thing on my little crappy three g motorola phone phone. And i remember i posted online and gawker picks it up i gave him, i believe, you know, my headline i put on my block was, you know, chase where the regulation ship is that go out yourself, you know? And it was it just got tons of play and then gawker picked it up. It went everywhere, totally viral snusz it’s one of those things he was just like, you know, this is in two thousand two it’s twelve years later, how the hell can you assume that nothing is being with that you’re not being recorded? You know, i i every blowing i sneezed couple weeks ago and ah, hyre not to get too graphic here, but i needed a tissue big time after i was done season, i remember going through my pockets looking for desperate, looking for tissue and like looking around, making sure it wasn’t on camera somewhere that someone didn’t grab that with hoexter viral sensation, you know? I mean, i went god, i went to high school with eight blocks from here, right? If the amount of cameras that aaron lincoln center today were there in nineteen, eighty nine, nineteen, ninety, i’d be having this conversation entirely. I’d be having this conversation behind bullet proof glass self, yeah, so you know you’d be you’d be talking to you have to get special clearance to visit me and pray, be it the super max in colorado. So you know, it’s one of those things that you just like my kid who’s who’s almost two years old now is going to grow up with absolutely no expectation of privacy the same way that we grew up with an expectation of privacy. And i’m thankful for that because she will make a lot less stupid moves, you know? I mean, god, the things that i thought, you know, in in high school, i thought the stupid is in the world, thank god there wasn’t a way for me to broadcast that to the world in real time. Thank god creating these zombie loyalists, and we’ve got to change some we’ve gotta change culture and thinking and reward zsystems let’s, go back to the the cost of all this. Why is this a better investment than trying to just focus on new donors? I love i love this analogy and get your fun analogy let’s open a bar and there’s a very cute girl across the across the park and catch my eye catcher i got to go, you know you don’t know me, i’m amazing in bed. You should finish your drink right now. Come home, let’s. Get it on. I’m gonna impress i’m that good chancellor should go throw a drink in my face. Go back talking, rinse. I’ve done a lot of research on this that’s probably now lets us sue let’s, assume an alternate world. I’m sitting there on my phone. I’m just playing like, you know no bored with friendraising and she’s over there talking to friends, one of her friends. Holy crap! That’s peter! Peter shankman. I’ve heard him speak he’s in this fantasy world. I’m single too. He i think he’s single and he’s having this amazing guy. I know he has a cat. You haven’t. You should totally go talk to him. The very least i’m getting this girl’s number that’s pr. Okay. And what are we trust more me with my you know, fancy suit collar going over the seventies leaders in hi, i’m amazing. Or the girl saying, hey, we’ve been friends since their great i’m recommending that guy. You should trust me on this. You know, obviously that that’s where good customer service comes into play and that’s where corporate culture comes into play because if i have a great experience with you and at your company, i’m going to tell my friend when they’re looking and i will stake my personal reputation and there’s nothing stronger than that. And these are the people who want to breed at zoho illicit struggled in advertising strong on the market and they’re going to share people want to share that think about the internet runs on two things it runs on drama, drama and bragging are bragging and drama and if you if you need any proof of that, you know go and look at all the hashtags with crap that’s happened, you know, bad customer service, bad whatever. But then look at all the good hashtags you know, when our flight’s delayed for three hours and we’ll lose our seat oh my god, i hate this air land on the worst airline ever but when we get upgraded, right hashtag first class bitches or whatever it is you who looks like that on the because we love to share it’s on ly a great experience if we could tell the world and it’s only a bad experience if we could make everyone else miserable about it as well. More with peter shankman coming up first pursuant fund-raising like a boss cake boss? No, just a boss it’s their four point four part webinar siri’s starting in january four webinars over four weeks you will master discovery questions and they’re gonna cover major gift solicit occassions and prospecting and prioritizing your prospects ppp prospecting, prioritizing prospects and getting your board to fundraise which we all know challenge of that endeavour if you can’t make all four of them, of course they have you covered. You get the recordings within forty eight hours, they’ll have the recordings up for you. Info on fund-raising like a boss is at pursuant dot com slash training slash webinar re be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising ideal for millennial engagement if that’s part of your plan for twenty seventeen you thinking about millennial outreach, check out one of these very cool events very fun events, stand up comedy, live music, dancing and spelling and raising money. You can check out their video at we b e spelling dot com now tony steak too my good wishes for your year and fund-raising push i know how important this is. I know how hectic this is. Ah, you know feeling stressed under resourced pressure of goals on dh and then, of course there’s the added pressure of holiday parties it’s enormous. So i know what you’re up against. You just have my good wishes. Twenty sixteen’s been quite a tumultuous year. I’d say mostly because of the presidential campaign. Um wrap it up in good form. You have my best wishes. That’s, that’s, that’s really? All i all i have to offer you is good wishes and i hope it’s a successful your end for you that’s tony’s take two here’s more on ah, zombie loyalists with peter shankman. Peter, you have a golden rule of social media that that a good number customers like to share and people are going to keep doing it. People will always share again. It goes back to the concept that if you create great stuff, people want to share it because people like to be associated with good things. If you create bad stuff and buy stuff, i can me. I mean anything from, like, a bad experience too. That content people not only won’t share that, but we go out of their way to tell people how terrible you are. Yeah, um, you know, how many times have you seen companies fail? Horribly? Ah, you know, after major disasters, when company’s heir tweeting, you know, completely unrelated things after after random school shooting? No, it was after the shooting at the theatre in aurora, colorado, the dark knight, the tweets hey, shooter’s, what’s your plans for this weekend, you know? And i’m just going, really, you know, but of course the thing was the thing was retweeted millions of times, you know, with a sort of shame on the so wait, we’re society, like i said earlier, that loves to share when when great things happen once but love to tell the world when we’re miserable, because we’re only truly miserable when you make everyone else miserable. Arika it’s funny you mentioned generosity siri’s the one of my favorite stories, which goes to sort of a bigger picture of culture, and somehow when you’re just doing your job because that’s what you’re supposed to do your job, but you don’t realize there are ways to get around that i i listened to your podcast, among others, when i’m running through central park on dh more like, if you know my body type more like lumbering through central park, but i get there. I’m an iron man have them and so i go. To central park and it’s super early in the morning cause i usually have meetings and i dont run fast. Come on, i run like i really dont run fast, but but as i’m running but let’s give you the credit that you have done a bunch of iron man, i have try i do, i do it. You know, my mother tells me that i just have very poor judgment in terms of what sports i should do. But on the flip side, i’m also a skydiver, which is with my weight is awesome. I fall better than anyone, but so i’m running through central park last year. It was fremery february thirteen and fourteen of this year, and it was around four forty five in the morning because i had a canadian meeting and had to ten miles. So four foot every morning running about but labbate around nineteen, seventy ninth eightieth street on the east side in the park, and a cop pulls me over. Andi says, what you doing? Look at him. You know, i’m wearing black spandex. I have a hat, it’s five degrees. I don’t wantto playing checkers, you know? Well, you know, i’m like i’m running it he’s like, okay, can you stop running? I’m like, okay, seeking the park’s closed like no time, like a minute look around, there are other people who know part doesn’t open this exam like he’s ago would you have any idea? And you’re like, no, i’m running, he does what you name? I’m like seriously, look, i’m writing you a summons i’m like you ready metoo sametz for exercising, i just want to clarify that you’re writing metoo and sure enough, the guy wrote me a summons for exercising in central park before it opened. That charge was breaking the violating curfew. You know, i’m like i get the concept the curfew is to keep people out after two a m it’s not to prevent them going in early to exercise, to be healthy. I’m like i’m not carrying, you know, a six pack. I’m not drinking a big gulp, i’m not smoking. I mean, i’m doing something healthy and you’re writing me a summons for it. Um, i said, you know, i’m gonna have a field day with this. I said, i kind of have some father there’s gonna be a lot of fun, i’m not. You know, i know you’re just doing your job, sir, even though you have the discretion not to, but okay, so i go back home, take a picture, might take it, email it to a friend of mine in new york post front page, new york post next day, no running from this ticket, you know. In your times covered it, runner’s world covered. I mean, i went everywhere. Gawker covered it, you know? And my whole thing was just like, dude, you have discretion. Look at me, you know, i’m not i’m not even going super fast for god’s sake. I’m just just trying to exercise here, you know? And of course i went to court and i beat it. But how much money that cost the city for me to go to court, fight this thing? You know, every employee you have to give your employees the power of discretion, that power of empathy to make their own decisions. If you go by the book, bad things will happen. And again, small shops so much easier to do. Yep, flatline flat organizations. I work with a non-profit that animal rescue non-profit a friend of mine was a skydiver and shut him out. But i can’t but there’s a friend of mine scott ever and she was killed in a base jump several years ago, and her husband asked to donate her memory to this non-profit so i sent him a check. And about three months later, i get a coffee table book of mail. And i was living by myself the time i didn’t own a coffee table. It was you no more money to spend on my flatscreen and i ah, remember, i call i look at this coffee table guy throw i throw in the corner, i look at it over next couple days, it pisses me off about how much, how much of my donation did it cost to print? Melon produced this book to me, and so i called them up. Well, sure, we believe most of our donors are older and pry prefer to get a print version as opposed to, like digital, you know, where they throw it away and like, you don’t throw digitally, but okay, i’m like, so so you’ve asked your you’ve done surveys in, you’ve asked, you know, we just assume the most number older i’m like. I open my mouth one of joining the board and spent the next year interviewing customers, interviewing every current and past donor-centric to get their information and shock of shocks, ninety four percent said online, and so over the following year, we launched facebook page, twitter, page zoho flickr account, youtube everything p s the following year for that, donations went up thirty seven percent in one year. In that economies right away tonight, donations went up thirty seven percent in one year, and they saved over five hundred thousand dollars in printing million reproduction. Imagine going your boss boss revenues up thirty seven percent and we save the half million dollars in boston about your really good beer. You know, all they had to do was listen to their audience, be relevant to the audience you have, and they will tell you what they want. We have tons of tools for segment. My god, you’ve gotta listen to what segment you want people want to be, you know, someone, someone ask me today. So what? What’s the best way i knew nothing about their company what’s the best social media left me to be on should be on twitter shevawn facebook i said, i’ll answer that question if you can answer this this this question to ask you is my favorite type of cheese gouda or the number six they don’t understand that’s not a real question like neither is yours like i can’t tell you where the best place study your audience can i said. Go ask your audience, believe me, they will tell you there’s a gas station, the midwest come and go. I just love the name kumo, angio and their ten grand. But you can read more about the tagline is always something extra, i think. Come on, the jokes just write themselves for god’s sake, but they don’t take themselves too seriously love that. Come on ghost knowing the name of the company gas station and, you know, i remember there in iowa and i went to visit a friend in iowa, and i was like, you’ve got to get a photo of you in front of coming goes on, and the beauty of this is that and some of their employees actually look at their customers when they’re on their phones. We start to go, you know what? Use twenty more facebook and they say, oh, you know, and they record the information and they know it customers will give you so much info if you just ask them because then they feel invested, they feel invest in your company, they feel like they that you took the time to listen to their non-profit requested their their their questions and they feel like they’re nufer harrow every month, we have a one question harrow survey, you know, heroin question survey, and it was we’d get like a thousand people respond, and i’d spend the entire weekend emailing everyone responded, thanking them personally, in-kind hyre weekend, but it was great because we’ll wind up happening is that, you know, if we took their advice and launch it on monday with the new thing, they oh, my god, how did this? They took my advice. Yeah was your advice to a hundred other people advice, but we took it and they don’t like it and it just it just made them so much more loyal, and they tell hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people we get in there were days i got there days where i was in temple one morning, the garment center, synagogue and my phone. I feel like phone getting really hot in my pocket, which is not normal, and i’m starting her on i look at it it’s almost on fire it have frozen because we were mentioned in seth gordon’s morning blogged, and at that time i was getting emails every time we get a new subscriber and the phone actually frozen and was locked and and was, like overheating i t at the battery and, like, reset the entire phone because we’ve got so many new fourteen thousand subscribers in, like, three hours have seen some scene you say excuse me, you say that customer service is the new advertising, marketing and pr yeah, it really is. Well, again, you know, if we’re moving to that world where so imagine a lot of limp and i love that i can use this. Now imagine a lot of lamp latto lamb has water, oil and a heat source, right heat source heats the oil, the oil flows with water, it makes pretty colors i’ve heard it looks really good when you’re high now i’ve heard. Now imagine if crystal’s imagine if you’re, uh, everyone you meet in your network, okay, he’s a drop of oil the water is your network and what is your world? Everyone you meet in your network from from the guy you’re sitting doing the radio interview with to the guy who serves you ice cream with local deli to the guy who does your dry cleaning to your girlfriend to your wife to not same time to your kids. Second grade teacher to your second grade teacher years ago. Everyone you meet is in your network, you know, right now, when facebook for started, i would see the same weight from a kid. It was junior high school his posted on the same weight as like my current girlfriend, which is ridiculous. I don’t need to know about everything my friend from junior high school’s doing having talked the kid in fifteen years, his face was getting a lot smarter, as has google. Now i see the people i communicate with the most. Okay, and if i if i reach out to communicate with new people, they start rising in my feet and my stream if i don’t, they fall it’s just like a lava lamp. Every person you connect with is a drop of oil that heat source at the bottom that’s rising, raising or lowering those drops of oil is relevance. So imagine the heat sources relevance and the more i interact with someone, the more the higher they go in my network in the more i see of them, the more trust level there is when i’m at a bar and i meet someone at a restaurant or conference. I meet someone i don’t need to bonem connect them. I don’t need to go on facebook friend request, you know, awkward friend requesting is when you said that last time my friend requested some of the real world was second grade will you be my friend? My daughter is doing that because, you know it’s like cat will you be my friend? Kind of the captain will be here, but, you know it’s, this awkward thing who the hell friendly west someone if i find hang out with you to bar and we connect again and we talk and we go out to dinner and we’re having a good time with friends, i don’t need to first request that you, you know, that’s going away, friending following liking and fanning is all going away. What will interact is the actual connection if i meet with you and i have a good time with you and we talk again if i use your business if i go to your non-profit if i donate if i volunteer, whatever network knows that the more i do that the more interact with you, the more you have the right to market to me and the more you will be at the top of my stream in the more i’ll see information about you, the less i will have tio search for you. But if you do something stupid or we’re no longer friends cia, you’re going to fade. I don’t unfriend you just disappear. Unfriending is also dated a woman we broke up. It was nine months after we broke up. There was one from the other one because it’s just awkward. So the whole kapin frenemy. But, you know, the causes of not having to do that of just, you know, okay, i haven’t talked in a while. I don’t see your post anymore. The real world that’s, how it should be. And if you’re not feeding zombie loyalists, yeah, they can start to defect. No question about our wonderful gonna spend a little time on if you’re not down to, you know, talking to them, giving them what they want talking about their information, helping them out, they will gladly go somewhere else to someone who is, you know, if i have a great experience of the restaurant every week. For three years, and then all of a sudden, over time, i’m noticing less and less that restaurant’s doing less and less tio, take care of me, you know, and maybe management’s change, and i don’t feel that, you know, i’m ripe for being infected by another company. I’m right for someone else to come. So you know, peter, because if i tweet some like, wow can’t believe i have to wait forty minutes for a table that didn’t used to be like that. If if someone else a smart restaurant, they’re following me and they’re going great, you know, appears no, wait, no way over here. Why don’t you come to black storms will give you free drink, you know, you know, and that right there that’s first sign of infection and i might become infected by another pan of the company because on the list for them and so let’s take you have a lot of good examples. Let’s, take a one on one situation. How can we start to cure that? The simple act of realizing following your customers, understanding when they’re not happy and fixing the situation before it escalates, you can contain a small outbreak. A small outbreaks, well, viral outbreak. You can contain that by getting the right people. Finding out what the problem is. Getting him to one room, fixing their problem, healing them. You have a good day, united story right back. When was continental? I was a frequent flyer and booked a trip to paris. Andi, i was very angry because they charged me four hundred dollars, looking for you. I remember what it was, and i call the ceo just just for the hell of it. I’m like i’m going. I wrote a letter, an email before social right friend wrote an email, the ceo and like this ridiculous. I’m freaking fired-up like three months later, my phone rings hello, peter. Please hold for larry kellman, ceo of kottler lands. I’m like, oh, crap, you know? And i got your telephone he’s like peter hated misjudgment e-giving started these fees of their new way. We sent that note. I’m getting it and see it. We’re gonna weigh them for you. But if you have any more problems, you know, feel free to call me and and of the phones next forty minutes. What is staring at it like, holy crap? Larry kellner, the ceo of united airlines, just called me and talk to me, and it was like, it was like, god coming down and say, you now have the power to levitate your cat, it was just ridiculous and so, you know, i have been faithful to continental and now united ever since on dh they continue to treat me with respect and do great things, and they’re they’re improving. They were getting a lot of crap over the past several years, and there really are starting to improve its nice to say, and not only, of course, your own loyalty, but you’re oh, my god, how zombie loyalist for them and how many times how much? It’s unquote fired-up latto padre, i drag so many friends to united, i’ve made so many friends. I mean, my father, you know, he only fleshing out it now, which means he only drag, he drags my mom on the internet and i only drink my wife, you know, there’s a lot of lot of work that way, we gotta go away for a couple of minutes when we come back. Of course, peter and i’m going to keep talking about his book comes out in january. Zombie loyalists like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy, tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m gale bauer from sponsorship strategist. Dot com. You have some examples of zombie loyalist leaving and mass like dominoes netflix, they’re both they’re both in the book so it’s so one leaving, if you know if you know, start the cure one leaving, yeah, and then that’s the thing you know, the betel expanded even internet with the hashtag everything like that, you know, it doesn’t take on time for those things to sort of blow up in your face and, you know, the other day, everyone say, oh, you know, twitter’s responsible for for us losing another not you’re responsible for you losing? Yeah, yeah, and if your product isn’t great and you’re your actions, don’t speak well of who you are, then there’s no reason your customers should stay with you, you know? And it was all social media is really hurting. I know you’re hurting yourself. The only difference is that social media makes it easier for the world to know. Yeah, they’re just telling the story. Dominoes and netflix are good example because they they bounce back, they took responsibility and yeah, they both owned the dominoes came out and said, you know what? You’re right, our pizza and we do have a problem. We’re going to fix this, and they spent millions fixing it. And sure enough, they’re back with a vengeance. Now i may or may not even ordered the maroons in awhile, and i live in new york city. That’s, that’s, a that’s, a sacrilege. But, you know, i have the app on my phone from oversea, no traveling, somewhere, being should boeing or whatever, and, you know what, do you get it? Eleven. Thirty at night, when your flight’s delayed in the land dahna. Which reminds me, i should go exercise on flip side looked something like netflix. They they also were screwed up, you know, they were losing that trial switch between the two. They came up with a new name and it was so gross and public. Oh, man, again, you’re watching the same thing happen with uber right now, so we really need to see if they’re able to repair themselves. Listening is important, but both those both those two examples they’d listen to their customers think there’s a problem with listening because everyone’s been saying, listen, listen, listen, for months and years and years and years now, but you know, no one ever says that you have to do more than just listening to listen actually follow-up you know, it’s one thing to listen, you know, i used to love my wife, i could sit there and listen to her for hours, you know? But i don’t actually say anything back she’s just smack me, you know, and go to the other room, and so you really have to it’s a two way street, you know, listening is great but can’t respond and look, i think further, and i was like, oh twitter so great because someone was complaining on twitter and we went online, we we’ve saw the complaint that we fixed their problem in yes, how about if the problem that exist in the first place, you know? Because the great thing about twitter is that, yeah, people complain on twitter the bad thing about it. Is there complaining about you on twitter so it’s like what if the problem didn’t exist in the first place? What if? What if you empowered your front desk clerk to fix the problem so that i didn’t have the tweet hurts is my favorite story of all this i used to rent from her it’s religiously, and then i went to aa phoenix sky harbor airport has past april, and i gave it i was giving a speech and go on my name’s supposed be on the board, you know, second grade that car and it wasn’t okay, that happens. I’m going upstairs. I weighed forty minutes on the v i p line after forty minutes, they finally say, you know, there’s a on ly one guy here a lot of people might have better chance we go in the regular line. Okay. Probably told us that a little earlier in the regular spend forty five minutes waiting. The regular line it’s now been are you tweeting while this is happening? Well, i had to know i was actually not only tweeting i don’t have time to create a mean that should give you some idea of how long i was online with myself on those over, even if that means i get to the counter. Hi. Can i help you? Yeah, i was downstairs. The vp doesn’t tell me. Oh, you via preservation in downstairs? Like? Yeah. Ok. Let’s, let’s put a pin in that. They just sent me up here. Like, right. They have to help you. Well, it’s. Not really. They you guys for the same company. I mean, i could see the reservation on the screen. You you can help me. Sorry, sir. I can’t help. You have to go to the next. Like you just next to me. Okay. So if you know anything about sky harbor airport in phoenix, all of the rental car coming through on the same place. Yeah. So i walked fifty feet. It’s a bus takes you to the big bang. A civilian where they’re all next week, i walked fifty feet from the sensible of filth in depravity that was hurts to thee. Wonderful zen garden of tranquility that was avis, and in four minutes i had a nicer, cheaper, more nicer, less expensive car given to a woman named phyllis, who was sixty six and moved to phoenix from detroit with her husband for his asthma. I knew this because she told me she smiled at me. She brought her manager out and said that’s, another refugee from hertz. And i said, this happens a lot, though. Like, yep, i’m like. Wow. You think they have done something about that? And so on the way out in avis, i thank them. I walk past her. So i shoot on this, you know, sort of. Look at the look of the beast. I get my avis carnage at my hotel. Wanted to tel i write a wonderful block post about my experience called peter, and hurts in the terrible, horrible. Nobody could really bad customer experience. What? You have a kid. You find rewriting titles about your blood post that have to do with kids books i do not like. Hurts. Sam, i am. And and, ah, i included in this block post. The five things i’d rather do than ever rent from hurts again. I think number three was was ride a razor blade bust through a lemon juice waterfall. With just, you know, and it’s a bit, but of course, the next day hurts reaches out to me. Oh, miss jay manuel, this is ahead of north american customer service. I saw your butt. I’m like like, you know we’d love to have make no like you’re not going to fix the problem. Number one sametz davis car i’m never going back to her it’s number two through a five people yesterday, five people interacted with all of whom had the chance to save me and keep me is a customer for life, a customer who have been so happy and i would have loved you five people blew it, so don’t waste your time trying to convert me back. You’re not going to know what you want to do is spend some of that energy retraining your staff to have empathy and to give them the ability and the empowerment to fix my problem when it happens, because five people, it takes every single employee to keep her company running. It takes one to kill it. Yeah, p s avis reached out to thank me personally. And i am now just this ridiculously huge loyal fan of avis. And always will be. You have a pretty touching story, but when you worked in a yogurt shop, you’re really yung wei have a couple of minutes tell it tell it could stay that was in the east side, which again, is yet another reason why i live on the west side. Nothing good ever happens in manhattan’s east side, so i was i was working and i can’t believe it’s yogurt, which was a store that i think back in the i c b y no, no t c b y was the country’s best yogurt the countries i c b i why was a poor i can’t believe that you can’t believe is that your family was yogurt was a poor attempt to capitalize on that was t that i’m working at this store and i go in every day and make the ok to clean the floors. I do, you know, typical high school job, and it was during the summer and houses people walking by things like second avenue or something, and there were these brass poles that hyung from, you know, there was awning, right? It’s only that there, and they’re the brass poles that held the awning up and they were dirty as hell, right? I’m sure they’ve never been polished ever. And i found i found some brass polish in the back with all the bear in the back and went after anyone outside, and i’m positive polishing the polls. My logic was, if the poles were shiny, people saw them, maybe they come in the store, maybe they’d want toe, you know, buy more screenplays and the manager came out. What the hell you doing? Told him what i thought i’d pay to think inside, you know, there’s, no customers in there. Okay, i’ll make sure the yogurt still pumping it full blast and i quit. I just quit that job. I mean, like, i couldn’t even begin to understand why someone would invest. I mean, t own a franchise bring fifty grand to at least to buy that franchise. Why wouldn’t he invest in the two seconds it took a little elbow grease to make the police claim that might bring in more customers? What the hell, you know, but you’re not paid to think you’re not paid to think my favorite line. Yeah, i just i i encouraged, if any. Kids listening. Those teenagers. If you. If you boss says that to you, quit, quit, i will hire you. Just quit it. Probably worse thing in the world that you could possibly do, because you have customers who you have customers who every day could be helped by people who are paid to think and that’s the ones you want. Hyre we gotta wrap up. Tell me what you love about the work you do. I get paid to talk. I mean, my god is the same stuff i used to get in trouble for in high school, but on a bigger picture, what i really love about it is being able to open someone’s eyes and haven’t come back to me. I run a series of masterminds called shank mines, business masterminds, shank minds, dot com there day long seminars around the country, and i had some kind of meat, you know, i took your advice about x y z, and i started listening little more, and i just got the largest retainer client i’ve ever had in my life by a factor for she goes, and i just can’t even thank you never said gorgeous by-laws aki listselect kayman thank you enough. Oh, my god, being able to help people, you know, at the end of the day where i i’ve yet to find another planet suitable for life, i’m looking so we’re all in this together and if that’s the case, you know, why wouldn’t we want to help people just little bit more? You know, there really isn’t a need to be as do she is as we are as a society we could probably all be a little nice to each other, and you’d be surprised if it’ll help. The book is zombie loyalists, published by pal grave mcmillan comes out in january. You’ll find peter at shankman dot com, and on twitter at peter shankman. Peter, thank you so much. Pleasure is mine. Thank you next week, going to see if maria simple might be able to make it, but even if not, i got you covered. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be e spelling dot com ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of offline as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

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