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Steve Jacobs & Kristina Villarini: Storytelling
Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference helps you find and tell your stories. They have terrific advice and strategies, and they are Steve Jacobs from Precision Strategies and Kristina Villarini with Lambda Legal.
Julia Campbell: Free Facebook Fundraising
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Schnoll buy-in hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of gas just axis if you made me stomach the idea that you missed today’s show storytelling our panel from the non-profit technology conference helps you find and tell your stories. They have terrific advice and strategies, and they are steve jacobs from precision strategies and christina villarini with lambda legal and free. Facebook fund-raising julia campbell reviews facebook’s free fund-raising tools that get your community to fundraise for you she’s principle of jake campbell social marketing that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled twenty dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com bye tello’s turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream tony dahna slash tony tell us the’s non-profit technology conference interviews air so long i don’t have time for tony’s take two today, let’s go right into storytelling. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference from new orleans at the convention center, we’re sponsored by network for good, each interview at eighteen ninety cia sponsored by them providing easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits that work for good. My guests are steve jacob he’s, managing principal at precision strategies strategies voice crack out of fourteen it’s a strategy it’s, a very dignified company has nothing to do with the way my life is the best snusz thank you, thank you, steve, don’t don’t i’ll prompt you want your let me let me introduce you properly, and christina villarini she’s, the digital director at lambda legal welcome. Thank you. You’re welcome welcome, christina and your workshop topic is make him laugh, make them cry, make it rain. Christina yes, too much, too much emphasis on video, and we’re getting away from the lost art of britain. Storytelling is that with the seminar is all about i mean it’s a little bit of everything on, and we’re talking about social media. We’re talking about putting clients and the folks that we serve first, then allowing them to share our lived experiences and with our constituents, and that could take many forms depending on the medium that you work in, um, it could be long form content like a block. It could be video there’s a lot of really cool tools that are allowing folks to sort of unity the user generated content sort of burst that’s happening right now where people are, you know, walking around with devices that are capable of doing really complex things that we couldn’t do fifteen years ago or ten years ago. So i think there’s a lot of mediums that people can use to tell stories. But you, if you move away from that, nothing good is gonna happen, okay? Yes, yes. God, steve, you wantto control yourself? Sure. Yes, something yourself. I mean, the topic. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, what we were thinking about when we developed this session was just that a lot of non-profits have have trouble telling really powerful stories about the work that they do. Oppcoll and i think often this is the this is the gap that you find between traditional communications directors and people like christina who are digital directors. Traditional communications directors have a mindset that’s very focused on delivering content that can then be translated by journalists to tell the story of the organization that they represent, and often those that plays out as a press release or as a very high level, policy focused interview on dh, not telling the stories of the people whose lives are affected by by the non-profits work. So, you know, no matter what you know, christina works at lambda legal, which represents the lgbt community in court. But regardless of whatever non-profit organization, their mission is always going to be representing someone and someone’s, right someone’s needs, and that that means that there’s an emotional story behind it. And if you want to marshal the support of the people who want to give you money so that you can keep doing your work, you need teo give them a reason to do that and telling them, you know, that’s, just the dry statistics. And, you know, wonky policy notes is not going to really spark passion in the hearts, minds and most importantly, wallets of your supporters. Okay, so we want to do good, good storytelling, good quality storytelling. Christina, do you ever give her focus on the, uh, on the attorneys when the paralegals, you know, as the as the heroes and heroines of the story rather than the clients. Yeah, actually, lambda is really land is really focused on on both the superstar attorneys that do the work every day. We’re really fortunate to have some of the greatest civil rights lawyers on the planet doing this work every single day and land. This specifically is unique because a lot of the folks identifies members of the lgbt community or is like, really strong allies. So this work is not just like what they’re good at. It’s also like mission driven and purpose driven for the u s o there was a campaign a few years ago where they, uh, we did video about some of our attorneys on the staff and called them the dream team because it was literally folks who, like, you know, one marriage equality who you know, lawrence v texas like these air, the folks who really changed the landscape l g b t people and people living with hiv in this country and and made it possible for us to even conceive of full equality for everyone. Yeah, i did an interview yesterday with a panel, and we talked about making staff the hero of the story not obviously you focus on your clients as well, but but everybody in the chain that makes that makes that impact that makes that outcome so positive, you know, focusing on them as well. So good to hear that you’re you’re focusing on the dream team is, well, the attorneys and i’m erin on staff, you know, i mean paralegals mean, yeah, no intake intake, processors, caseworkers, they they’re they’re they’re heroes to yeah, atlanta is great. A lot of folks don’t know that we actually have a free legal help. Us and it’s it’s tough to explain to folks who aren’t familiar with the sort of impact litigation world, but people will call in and ask you no questions like i live in ohio. My employer just found out that i’m hiv positive. What are my rights? Can i get fired? What does that mean? And so now relate this back to the storytelling, right? Okay, so so the storytelling pieces that, you know, some people are brave enough to allow us to litigate with on behalf of of themselves. They’re not like anonymous plaintiffs, right? So one example is lambda legal and outserve sldn. Are two of the firms that are representing litigants in the trans ban, the trans military band belle george yeah, and all of our plaintiffs, the individual plaintiffs are named plaintiffs and each of them, i believe three of them are actually enlisted in the u s military, and that gives us a unique perspective because they’re able to present what it is actually like to be a trends americans soldier in a climate that is basically telling you that you are not qualified. Teo, do your job. Wei had katie schmidt who’s, a staff sergeant who’s, one of the plaintiffs in that case in our office, doing a reddit, eh? And actually, this week she was telling her story. She was able to tell our stories live real time alive question right to people who are not our constituents, right? Like a younger demographic, maybe mostly male who have really strong political feelings that maybe don’t jive with what we do. So those types of stories air like, invaluable for us to do what we do know, yeah, i mean that i am a i think, you know, i regrettably wasn’t wasn’t a part of it, but i was i was so excited to hear about it at this point that it wasn’t your idea, so is every good idea i don’t like quite as much, but what i think was so important about that was like like christina was saying who’s reaching a new audience that is not the traditional lambda legal audience like she said, read it is sort of ah younger, younger mailer, wider community come and buy by going into that space and having that plaintiff tell tell her story hyre she made herself into a human being to them instead of, you know, a type that they read sort of about it’s time for a break. Pursuing their newest paper is the digital donation revolution, thanks to amazon’s one click to buy and recommendations based purchases your online donors have higher expectations of you doesn’t matter to them that you don’t have amazons budget and expertise. Do you want to measure up? Get the digital donation revolution you find on the listener landing page? Tony dahna slash pursuing radio now back to storytelling so let’s explicitly translate this into general lessens around about storytelling. Good versus mediocre. Sure. So i think the point you were making earlier about about establishing heroes is very important. People like to think of themselves as the kind of person who would be a hero rather than the kind of person who would be a victim. So while it’s very important for us to tell the stories of the people that that we’re serving on dh who need our help, it’s really important to include the voices of the people who are doing the helping and are are playing are playing that role because then that’s that’s sort of the avatar, that the supporter khun see themselves as playing when they sorry using video game terminology, but when when they donate more, when they support the organization, they’re not thinking of themselves as you know, necessarily that the person who has been victimized that’s important too, of course, but they’re by telling the story of that person who needs the help through the voice of the paralegal through the voice of the lawyer, or if it’s not illegal organization you know someone else, they think well, that’s that’s the way i khun khun b, that sort of hero that i see when i watch tv or when i watch movies to sort of live out that that role that i want to experience in my own life, i i also just want to add that i think in this particular climate, in this era of, like fake news and what’s authentic and what is true, it is really, really empowering toe let the person’s how their own story and to give them the platform, because lambda has a large platform where, you know, a forty five year old organization and both our supporters and our enemies, our opposition, are looking at us and seeing what what cards were playing every single day. So to be able it’s really important to me to be able to turn over that platform to our constituents, to our plaintiffs and let them tell why they are fighting what what is actually important to them? Like we are a law firm, we’re a civil rights law firm, we’re going to keep defending what we what what aligns with our mission until we can’t do it anymore. And so we went, right? So i think with the cases that we survive tried to be advocate internally to allow us to give more of the mike. To those folks and what other platforms you are not platform. What other methods are you people turning cameras on themselves? Yeah, what? What are you doing to empower the the heroes? Yeah, so the user generated content will will set up like we’ll use, like blue jeans and have lawyers and different offices have conversations. I’ve done a couple of different kinds of, like, you know, five minutes, five questions with one of our attorney is on, like facebook that will post a couple of times a month where we just break down was happening like you taking the questions from from the people watching the live stream i’m taking questions, usually in the comments from other other posts that we made so like, so if we see recurring themes and somebody doesn’t understand it’s like, okay, i need to get this lawyer on the phone who khun distill this because most of the time they don’t even know that they’re speaking in the legal language legalese, right? It’s what’s comfortable for them. So part of my job is getting everybody out of their comfort zone, and using different vehicles were used. Facebook live! We use facebook live twitter way love social what have you done on twitter? Tio tell stories we’ve done a lot of joint chats with other organizations will also take, like users a minute, questions on those in advance any hashtag do you want to share? I mean, we people can look at we’ve done a few i mean, when it comes to the most recent ones are on courts and judicial nominees, so, like stop far or no dunkin like just like, you know, any negative of a judge’s potential nominee last name is going to be what you’re looking for. The twitter point i think that there’s a there’s a specific example that that we sight in our session sided here, man, back on non-profit radio well, well, the larger point that i want to make is that, you know, we can use social media to tell stories from real life, but the use of social media actually establishes its own storyline, right? And so the example that i’m thinking of is when, when trump announced that he was going toe ban transgender people from serving in the military and lambda under kristina’s leadership tweeted this really, really funny tweet that sort of cast lambda as as the superhero as you were saying, where what was the exact phrasing so area goldberg, my incredible, talented deputy digital director who’s holding down the fort back in new york, tweeted out, puts on a cape made of legal briefs. Yeah, there you go again puts on like two asterisks like an action on, dh said puts on a cape made of legal briefs rang with quoted hill implementation like the bat signal going off all right, and was i remember i saw it again, you know, a great idea that wasn’t mine, but i was very excited by i saw this and i was i just thought, this isn’t this is an amazing time cape on and and the response that that we saw immediately was so strong because it was funny, right? And that was that’s part of what our session is, right? We’re talking about telling the emotional story that might make you cry, but also something that will make you laugh because, you know, this is every every non-profit especially land illegal. If you focused too much on the problem that you’re trying to fix, it gets a little too sad it gets a little too overwhelming, and so you need to have a little bit of a sense of humor about it and this this this particular tweet and a lot of other the tweets from lambda legal at lambda legal, everyone should check it out. It brings a lot of sense of humor to the really important work that they do and what i also thought was really, really great. I’m just bragging on your behalf way hold that point, but this also does is inform people about your about the brand total personality of an illegal legal we don’t take each other, take ourselves so seriously that we can’t invoke superheroes, you know, in the face of, you know, gross discrimination, you know? So the brand brand benefits from people knowing that it’s ah, it’s, approachable, you know, we’re thinking we’re thinking superman, yeah, i mean, so one of things i’m really proud of is i i kind of came from a traditional media background, so i’ve done my media direct their style work, and i’ve been a journalist. I worked, unlike celebrity beats for several years, so i have a pretty good understanding of, like, the sort of earned media side as well as the tax side, which is unique for digital people. But i understand that there are certain things that you have to do to engage a particular kind of persona and, like having content that is sound bitey and that a journalist can throw into a piece that is our position and they don’t have to call anybody is really important, you know, and having, you know, that funny moment or that first moment that they’re going to use, like we’ve had a new a gift of the undertaker put in like a daily dot piece, you know, as like, this is what land the legal said about something gross that’s happening and that’s like a particular phenomenon. Did any media pick up the the putting on the cape? Yes, they like the hill has run a lot of ourselves, a lot of stuff on social. Yeah, it’s really fun and it’s easy to do, it’s the humanity of the work that you’re doing right because you’re really and the sad part of it is that it it’s giving somebody else something to do. Besides, for being afraid all the time. What do you mean? What? So this is what you told your point, steve there’s one that i caught you when i interrupted. Now christina’s interrupting, but it was my digression, but now she’s interrupting, we’ve fallen down the back here and we’ll get back out. It’s my job to get us back out, she’s saying smart things like, well, it’s, that because they’re reacting to the fear of of whatever is in opposition of your true value or your true mission, right? So when people saw the trans band, they were freaking out, they were freaking out for their neighbors and their brothers and their sisters and and the people that are paid to protect them, who are now having their privacy ripped out from under them, a right that they’ve pretty much earned because they decided to try and protect us all over the world have involve alt-right right? So the rand study has is quoted at somewhere between, like ten and fifteen thousand trans troops like who are deployed, who are active, who are having their lives, like shifted from under them. So this is really these rial world, right, it’s getting that story right but it’s also that, like people saw that and trans people were scared. Trans people were scared about what this administration is doing. Are they targeting me? What does this mean? Is this legal? And we gave them number one. We told them, like, we’re on it, we’re watching this and number two, we’re like, you know what? Take a minute, we got this, we’re going to be fine. And so i think it gave people a second toe, like, step out of their own fear and know that there are people who are going to fight for them, you know? And so this is actually related to the point where that i that i was trying to say earlier, so i know i know everyone’s going to be fixed? Why di grab stuff? That was so the two points that christina was just making the point that you made about approachability? I’m not tie them all together right now, so you know any any legal response organization one welcome metoo steve jacobs non-profit radio he’s sitting in the middle of may as well be the host. What? Garrett, just change the focus company out. Oh, just crop me out like i’m ready for a career. Change so you know, any any legal response organization can put out a press release saying, you know, we are we’re going to sue and that’s something that could, you know, make a person who was concerned about this issue. I feel a little calmer and know that they’re on it if they see it, if they see it right. So that’s one issue and secondly, even if they do see it it’s a press releases air pretty dry, right? And so putting out putting out a tweet along the lines of throwing on a cape made of cape make made of legal briefs, it does make you feel like, okay, one i know someone’s looking out for me, and they are like me, right? Like, they’re they’re they’re like me, not just because, you know, it’s, lambda legal, and so it represents the lgbt cubine a community, but they’re they’re they’re fun loving, you know, not not just super serious lawyer types, and that makes them like you said virality approachable. Yeah, and so makes them approachable and not just approachable in the sense that, you know, i feel good, but people were tweeting back to them in that. Moment to that particular tweet and what i thought was particularly great, and this is what i was going to stay way back when is that they were ready, tto they being cristina and her team were ready to tweet back to these people who were responding to them in the moment? And so people were saying, oh, i love you and we stayed they were there to say, i love you right back, and then people were tweeting really funny animated gifs at them, and then they had photos ready to tweet back of them, and so it became a conversation. And so that’s what i meant before when i said that the social media story is a story unto itself, it’s not necessarily telling a story from from the real from the real world. So and the thing is that the other social media users could become part of that story. They become characters in that story, and so that’s and so they’re tall telling the story together and it’s a really participatory experience does not all contribute to long term engagement mean this’s opening conversation long term engagement when the dollars how that’s going right i was going to say whether weaken you can only draw the line, but whether that’s going to translate the dollars volunteers just mohr sharing of your content. I mean, all those things are valuable. Yeah. I mean, that was just that opening conversation that was a really popular engaging on most amplified sweet. Probably that month, people just went crazy for it. And we raise a lot of money that day. Oh, that specific day? Yeah. That specific day we raised about forty grand off of social media alone. It’s way beyond what’s. Typical. Yeah. That’s yeah, yeah, that and that’s legitimately like folks like, okay, who were the orders that were going to donate who’s going to fight this thing? Well, it’s going to be lambda legal because they’re here. Your aunt s o you know, we set up specific source link that went to a page individually from each each social platform. So we had, like, a facebook driving link and it’s what are driving link to our donation pages and were able to generate a lot of money in those days and didn’t you see the and you said just said now forty grand from social but i thought it was just forty grand just from twitter. I think it was just one twitter on dh and it’s very hard to raise money from social media it’s normally through through e mail or through ads, and so when you can raise a lot of money through social, that means you’re doing something really well, yeah, i was eight hundred eighty two donations for about forty two grand. Ok? Any let’s see challenging stories? You know, things didn’t go so well doesn’t necessarily have to be at lambda legal. It could be i mean, you seem to be willing to share, but it doesn’t have to be. But you know, things that you learned a lesson you want your client, steve learned a lesson you don’t name them, but, you know, it could have been done better. As i look back, i thought, yeah, maybe here’s where i think we went a little wrong durney tells of that. I mean, i think that the the hardest lesson that these organizations i need to learn is just that that, you know it is it can be really hard tto find these stories because, you know, like the old adage when you’re inside the picture, you really can’t see the frame, and so, you know, for example, on organization i used to work with, you know, several jobs ago, they were and still are, i won’t name them, but a public health organization and, you know, they had all these really great stories about, you know, about doctors and local communities, saving people’s lives, and, you know, they wanted to talk about building a hospital and, you know, that’s building a hospital’s, important units, access and everything that’s work there, right? Yeah, but it’s it’s not exciting, right? And so you want to hear the story about, ah, in fact, here’s a here’s a really great example, so they didn’t they didn’t. They didn’t want to be certain they’re saving lives every day. Exactly. Um, it becomes mundane cancer or a traumatic accident or something, right? You want to tell those stories? And so we wanted they wanted to do ah campaign specifically about cancer in the developing world because in the developing world, you think about hunger, you think about aids, you don’t think about these sort of non communicate diseases, and they wanted to do a campaign around that. But they all wanted to talk about stats and how because they think it’s surprising that there are so many more people, you know, in sub saharan africa suffering from cancer, and you wouldn’t think about that you think of, like, breast cancer, a sort of developing world issue, and so i wouldn’t take my advice. I said i wanted to do a story and finally convinced them to do a test where one email was focused on telling just the stats, the way they wanted to and the other they let me find someone who had a story, and it was about a dad whose whose daughter had cancer and about how he he didn’t have access to medical help, where he lived in about all the sort of this sort of the sort of odyssey that he went on in order to just get medical help for his daughter and save saved her life. And, you know, it was it was mind blowing the difference, right? The version that told the story of a dad and his daughter just i don’t remember the exact numbers, but it it blew the other one away in terms of dollars raise. And so i think, that’s that’s the biggest challenge that i think a lot of non-profits faces just stepping outside of the frame, talking to i think i think it’s really important for people who work at non-profit organizations to talk to people who don’t work there and tell them about the work that they do and see what these sort of you know, quote unquote real people respond to and what they don’t win and then also watch when their eyes glaze over and that’s how you can learn, you know which of the stories that are worth telling on dh which are sort of the supporting facts that you throwing later on, we shall have ah, couple minutes left together, like two, two and a half. So what else do you want to share about storytelling? Good, bad empowering the empowering the the volunteers and heroes within tell their own what else could i mean? It’s a slow burn? I think you have to know you kind of have to be in it for the long haul. Not everything is going to raise forty thousand dollars in a day on dh sometimes it’s going to take a minute? You know, you have to continue with the touchpoint ce that that, you know, are important tio to the message into yourself because your constituents may not necessarily get it at first, we have some folks that lambda legal who are like, well, i don’t really understand the trans bathroom thing like, well, that’s not really our issue, i don’t really understand it. And it’s it’s coming, obviously from a position of privilege and never having that experience, but it’s also coming from a fact of like, you’ve never it’s access its its experience, it’s you know how you present and if you’ve never had that experience where somebody like stopped you from walking into a restroom or miss gendered you or if you’ve never had to live with that. It’s it’s easy to not get it s o for us, it’s an important issue, andi, we’re going to keep fighting for it, but our constituents, you know, some of them don’t get it. And that doesn’t stop us from continuing to tell those stories from continuing to advocate for, like gavin grimm and other folks who were really trying to make it make that access fair and equitable and safe for everyone, all right, it’s a long haul, but it’s worth stay true to its worth telling story. Yeah, yeah. And i think the one thing that i would add their understanding that we’re running low on time, it’s just that i think that one of the reasons we wanted to do this session was because there’s a very strong trend, particularly digital fund-raising right now to focus on minimal, like at least, like tiny little tactics that are that have been proven to raise the needle a little bit. But the more and more you take those sort of testing optimization sze, where you’re just changing the language a little bit. Are you using a certain kind of graphic or a certain kind of like urgency approach, the more you start to mistreat your community of supporters and treat them more like atms rather than people on how much can you do that anyway, right? You get every post can’t be can’t be groundbreaking and and rid bold colors, you know that it’s, right? But if you’re on some emails, if that’s what you’re getting everyone’s gonna be exhausted and turn you off. All right, we got to leave it there. The other reason you did your session because you knew you’d be on non-profit radio here. Martignetti non-profit radio it’s right behind you, it’s bona fide it’s on the back. It has to be true. Okay. They are steve jacobs he’s, a managing principal at precision strategies, and cristina vila rina she’s, digital director at lambda legal. Stephen. Christina. Thank you so much. Really. Thank you. Thanks a lot. This interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. And you are with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner. Cps before they go beyond the numbers, they cover your essentials. The nine. Ninety and the audit. Check him out at wagner. Cps dot com start your due diligence there. You can use the contact page there or you know my preference. Go in real life. Pick up the phone. Talk to the partner. Ye hooch doom. He will take care of you. Answer your questions. No pressure. Weinger cps dot com now, let’s, go to free facebook fund-raising. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Coverage of eighteen ntc it’s a non-profit technology conference in new orleans with the convention center. This is day three of our coverage. The interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits and the interview is with julia campbell, author trainer, speaker jake campbell, social marketing welcome, julia campbell. Hi. Hi, tony. Happy to be here. Good to see you. Good to see you two. And the show’s. Former social media manager. Yes, i am. Um i take full credit for your success. Actually. Just getting take full credit for my success. Up to about three years ago. Three years, three to four. Not long ago, i was at least three. Yeah, yeah, okay. And your session topic is all about facebook. How to use facebook’s free fund-raising tools to drive donation? Yes, and because this is the week where mark zuckerberg just testing buy-in testified this week, monday and tuesday or tuesday. It was monday and tuesday in front of two different congressional committees. Duitz because of all that and the russia interference and the cambridge analytica, eighty seven million people who are down on facebook this month, yeah, what do? You say non-profits questioning should we still be fund-raising there? Should we still be there? My boys just crack that’s in there. Uh, okay, what do you say to the facebook skeptics? Because there there is a you know, the leak facebook movement? Yeah, little sanctimonious waist look movement let’s acknowledge it. Why do you say thank you? Because people keep saying their going to delete facebook, but the reality is still almost two billion people it’s still growing still, even if one hundred million people that really wouldn’t even make a one point nine billion right? All right, i think the real issue is that facebook’s currency is trust it’s built on trust and that trust is eroding. So people, even if they’re not losing use that they’re not deleting facebook directly, they might be using it less and certainly he’s spending less time on it, maybe signing in less. So i think in that way there might be some blowback for non-profits but it’s too early to tell, but i yeah, i would like to thank Mark zuckerberg for the 12 hours of testimony the day before my session, the optics where your little not alright so i’m sure, it came up right? People ask, you know, should we still be their art? But we got to keep it in perspective and who knows, you know, seems unlikely. This will be the downfall of facebook now the stock price, maybe that will recover who don’t even know if that will, but anyway worth acknowledging, you know, there are still two billion people there. Yes. Yeah, and they’re changing some policies. They’re trying to be more transparent. They’re trying teo encourage people to revisit their privacy details there being they’re trying hard. I don’t think they’re doing enough, but i think that’s a little different conversation. I also think facebook is kind of the tip of the iceberg for all the data we give up every day. Just having a smartphone. Yeah, yeah, that’s true, depending on what network you’re on winning on who your eyes is. What, what? What wifi? You’re on from moment to moment, the vulnerabilities built in yeah, that is a bigger conversation. Let’s, go to facebook and talk about some of the free tools. What let’s, surely a numerator couple that we can talk about in twenty five minutes or so? Sure. So the way we set up the session was i did a brief overview of the main ways that you can donate on facebook right now. So if you have, if you register with facebook, i’m talking about if you’re verified registered, you send in your five twenty three letter and you give them your bank account number so they can make a direct deposit to you. If you have all that set up, you can put that donate button on your cover page, you can put donate buttons in your ads, in page posts and on facebook live video’s okay, so those are the four main ways. Is that a program that you know what’s the programme called where you get authorized, but that donate it’s called facebook payments? Yeah, use and charities have to provide their five, twenty three letters, okay, but you’re getting authorized through the program called facebook payment. Yeah, so you you would go, i think it’s facebook, dot com slash donate or you could just, you know, google, how doe i signed up for facebook payments? Then you will be verified by facebook and it’ll be that to tap donating so i would tap on the donate button? It would bring up a screen with suggested giving levels, and i would tap my level or it enter another amount. Click tony because it’s linked to my credit card if you don’t, if you don’t have a credit card, then you will be asked to provide a credit card or link. It’s pay pound individual to tap donating. So it was. It is a pretty easy name since the charity bank account. Yeah, who sets the ask string on that on that page where they suggested giving amounts. Are you set your own? Yes. Yes. You have that? Yes. That’s basically the only flexibility that you have. That is a thing. All right. Okay. So that’s facebook payments? Yes. What other free tools that can be okay. Those are the four. Those of the four ways. So what’s really interesting now is that we’re seeing we don’t missed one of the four way there’s the donate button on your cover photo today, but not the facebook payments. Yes. Donate button in a page post like if you post to the page. Donate oh, these are all different programs. Well, no, they’re not different programs. They’re just different. Features you could put the donate button on any of the pages once you get to these four places. Yes, once you’re authorized facebook payments, okay, oh, i missed that. Alright, i thought they were each four different programs no wash can imagine. Well, we’d just like to sign up once, and you are able to raise money those four ways the other way, which we explored ah lot in the session, our facebook fundraisers, which is where a person sets up a fundraiser like a peer-to-peer kind of fundraiser on your non-profits behalf. So in my session, i had two case studies of non-profits that have had really wonderful success with getting their supporters to start facebook fundraisers for them so it’s it works the same as any peer-to-peer platform. Okay, what’s different about it on facebook? Yeah, facebook, facebook, live! You can use facebook, live, put it, donate button people can see if i donated it would say julia donated and it shows you how much money is being raised in real time. You can start your own facebook fund-raising page that has, like a little thermometer, just it looks like, you know, a crowd rise or a go fund me, paige it’s got all the list of the donors how much you have raised towards your goal, your story? What? You’re raising money for different giveaways at different levels? No, i don’t think i mean, i think you could do that. But facebook fund-raising does not have that. Not like kickstarter. Okay, no. So the real incentive is tio, you know, the real incentive is that it’s, so easy to do if i want to donate my birthday and have everyone give ten dollars rather than, you know, buy me some coffee mug or church key. Then i can set up a facebook fundraiser, link it to the non-profit like that e i don’t know. It’s your favorite client on your your mind. That mug was amazing. I’m so your i bought five coffee mugs while i was here. I don’t know what i’m talking about, but i remember that with mine is the one you shattered on your kitchen floor. That was the one. Okay, i think that probably right. So so instead of, you know, getting gifts, you can it’s like anything else. Except the key. Is that its true face? So it’s where people are spending their time and it’s really easy to do so you can reach a big group of people with one click. How do we induce our supporters to do this for? Well, i think the first thing you need to do is explain to them it’s an option. So what kind of drives me crazy is when charities come to me and they say, oh, i have a donate button on my website, but no one’s donating and i said, well, did you? Did you tell anybody you have you actually asked your donors? Are you showing them how to use it? So with facebook fundraisers, if it’s something that you want to do, you need to create a bit of a plan to promote it and to educate people how to use it? Because not everybody knows how to do it. So it might involve a youtube video walking people through. Maybe you could do a facebook live talking about it and and sharing it and saying, this is an option now i know with both the polaris project and mental health america, which were the two non-profits that joined me in my session, they both feature the fundraiser is prominently on their website on their facebook page, so it’s the first thing you see when you go to their facebook pages, the list of people and they’re different fund-raising events, but they do a very concerted effort to promote it on dh they go, yeah, so you you really have to you have to let people know that it’s there and it’s something you’re trying and address people’s concerns because they might have concern about how to do it, about how to do it about facebook, you know, there’s a million different concerns that people could have, okay, what else do we have so use of facebook? Yeah, so i think the what i said in my session, what comes up all the time? And i know people are listening and watching this right now and, you know, we need to address the question over twelve thousand people, right? And i know that they’re getting angry because we haven’t. I haven’t addressed the fact that when you do a facebook fundraiser, you don’t get the donor information so you might get a name of first and last name of her, you don’t get their information, so it might not be the best tool for you. It certainly shouldn’t be your only fund-raising tool it’s not a tool to use if you want to grow your donor file. But if you want to raise awareness, raise, you know, a lot of money in a short period of time, it might be worth looking into, but i yeah that’s, that’s a huge con and there’s no way of acknowledging the gift, then you these books and then auto acknowledged. Yes, they send, like a tax receipt. Like you can customize it either it’s strictly from facebook, it’s strictly from facebook because that’s the person knows they made a donation, but they’ll never you can never contact them know unless they say, well, can you look up? Can you try to search there? Yeah. You could cross reference with the database. I mean it’s a little more. Or even just search on facebook, right? So what i recommend doing these are friends of these air friends, of friends, of your friends, friends of your followers. Exactly. So i would i recommend, first of all, really acknowledging the person that sets up the fundraiser for you because you have their information. You know, we’re linked to your face or sank them, but also send them some text that they or even better yet, a thank you video that they can share on their fund-raising page or they can send to their focus because you really don’t have the ability to make that personal touch with these friends of the only ok. S o that’s, that sounds like a very good strategy has asked your asked the fundraiser yeah, tio, send the video, show the video through the outreach to them. Yes, you gave what about? I don’t know if this is a bad practice asking the fundraiser to share the information of the people who gave because they’re that person’s friends and then you and saying, you know, we only want what we want to do is thank you, but then you can’t go further unless you say we want to thank them and try to get them engaged. What about that strategy? Trying to get your friend to give up their information? I think it’s not scalable if you have a lot of people fund-raising for you, that could take a lot of time if you are only dealing with maybe ten of your supporters doing fundraisers for you then that might be a good strategy, but yeah, i don’t think it’s i don’t think it’s scalable. I’m not one hundred percent sure it’s ethical. I don’t know what you definitely can’t put them on your email list. Um, i would say, you know, that might be a good strategy, try it out and just sent a thank you and an invitation to get more involved. So, you know, thank you for your gaff. One message here is, you know, a way to get more involved if you want. We haven’t put you on any mailing lists. We just really genuinely want to thank you for your donation. That could be a good strategy. I don’t think that many fundraisers would i know that i wouldn’t give up that kind of information to a charity as much as i love them not wait, not even have it because these are my facebook friends. I might have their emails, you know, so okay. But if you did, you would be reluctant. Alright something. Think about it. Yeah, bad practice. You don’t think it’s an awful practice, you know it’s something to think about and i’ve been thinking a lot about that, maybe nobody no, but let’s test it right? This is this is the biggest question i receive by far around facebook fund-raising tools why would we use them if we don’t get the donor information? And to that? I say it’s, it’s, facebook’s world and we live in it. You can’t fight facebook, i’m not saying that the tools are necessarily the best option for all charities, but there’s something you have to look at, i mean facebook’s completely revolutionized the way we communicate as humans and it’s going to revolutionize the peer-to-peer fund-raising industry it’s going to happen? It’s going to start linking with other sites? So if i do a fundraiser on facebook it’s going to start linking with blackbaud and crowd rise and causevox and all of these different crowd funding platforms and then i don’t think it will be it won’t be solidly unstoppable, i think that’s that’s gonna be where we’re going to do peer-to-peer that’s just what i trends that i’m seeing. Okay, okay. Trend, trend predictions. All right. A futurist your futurist? Yeah, they had that to author trainer, speaker? Yes, other trainer. Speaker that’s where my lincoln for a file like that? No, i got this from the ten description. Okay? And ten has the speaker page. Okay, i i didn’t even look at my speaker. Paige right now i know it’s out, but that’s what it says it’s funny. I gotta take a break. You’ve heard the tell us moughniyah lll from lee elementary school for tello’s credit card processing lee elementary school, where they’re getting a monthly donation from tell us for the credit card processing of a parent owned company. Do you want more revenue? Important question? Would you like that revenue to be recurring each month? Ask the people who are close to your organization who owned businesses to switch to tell us get started at tony dahna slash tony tell us now, back to free facebook fund-raising so what else? Okay? Because i mean it’s simple. What more? What more can we do on fund-raising? I mean fund-raising on facebook yet we still have some time together. Yeah, so i think it’s important. Teo really evaluate how you know your goals for using it so i wouldn’t completely write it off just because you don’t get the donor information what’s interesting to me is the generational divide around this issue because the two non-profits that i presented with their digital media directors air really young, they’re in their twenties, they have xero problem with it, they don’t understand the big snusz around not having the donor dina money, they’re making, they’re doing their job, we’re hearing about their raising awareness, they’re getting the word out, they are increasing their they’ve grown, their facebook fan page is they’ve doubled their facebook fan pages thie amount of followers on them, they i think they’re taking a little bit of ah bigger picture view, and they’re not really worried about thiss ability, because if it’s a five dollars, in their mind is sort of like if it’s a five dollar donor, well, we can get a thank you out through the friend. But it’s it’s not a person that might ever be gauged with us anyway, like they’re giving because their friend asked them it’s not like they saw something that we posted and responded it’s, their friend, that they’re responding to. So i just think, it’s very interesting you could tell in the session in the room, the older more traditional fund-raising people get really upset about it and the younger ones because they grew up like this, they grew up making payments with their phones, they grew up with facebook, so i just think that the generational divides very interesting around this issue, all right? Yeah. So i don’t know. Have you made a donation on facebook? Ever? Have you ever gone an invitation to donate? I don’t even remember that now, yeah, so when i log on, the first thing i see, almost every time i log on is a notification from facebook inviting me to donate or start a fundraiser there pushing this, they love it, i don’t know, i mean, it’s, you know, i don’t use i don’t use facebook to connect with not too much rain, and there are some pages that i like organisations i give too off line, but i’m not i’m not i’m not fans of a bunch of non-profit pages they’re pushing when fundraiser, so they’re really they used to be pushing facebook live if you remember you every time you log in, they would say want to go live wanted alive? It was like, oh my god, i don’t want to go live now? It’s want to start a fundraiser? I wanna start a fundraiser every time i log in, but i think that has advantages for charities because facebook is trying to get better press their trying to be the good guy again. They’re trying tio help people see that it can be a tool for good rather than a tool for, you know, evil for russians, for russians go god and hackers and horrible and bots to where that that scandal is only going to get worse. There’s no way, probably let’s not go political. Okay, um, what about what else? Your fake use? I mean, we’ve got we’ve got more time together, okay? We could. Is there another? Is there any other methods on facebook first and here the methods of fund-raising on face? Yes, i mean, what i’m seeing now is that it’s pretty impossible to get any kind of reach without paying for an ad so non-profit is posting and they’re doing what they’re supposed to be doing there. Putting a visual. They’re putting a video, they’re putting a photo. Organic reach has been killed, the organic reach is decimated with their latest algorithm. Change and this whole push tio have meaningful interactions, so i’ve been encouraging organizations. Teo explore may be creating a facebook group because a facebook group is it has a lot more capacity for interaction and it’s you see the notifications, if you’re in a group, what is this thing? The organization can join a group, you can start a group around a cause it would be around cause it wouldn’t be, you know, like the tony show, the tony show page or something, or the julia campbell social martignetti doing rube know there is because you could talk about the cause, you could use it, tio podcasting or something? Is that what you mean? Well, it’s groups are a place for people to talk about issues that they care about so you could start a group around your con animal welfare? Yes, climate change, right, homeless in oakland, california, right? And the more exactly and the more specific, the better hyperlocal you couldn’t. I wouldn’t start a group that’s like about homelessness, you know, or poverty eradication that’s huge in oakland, california exactly. So i think, or a neighborhood even a vocal in, if it if they’re enough people so i think exploring facebook groups facebook live is still hugely popular. Facebook loves it. I know when i do a facebook live video, it gets ten, twenty times the reach of the normal girls have been doing, i’ve done some shows treyz work-life so explore live video actually asking for money on facebook and posting a link to your donate page that, you know, i would not recommend doing that because facebook now is starting to show fewer and fewer link posts because they want they change their minds all the time. So now they want to go back tio what they’re calling meaningful interactions, and they want to go back to facebook being a place where you talk to your friends and family rather than a place where you see ten million adds cat videos, news articles, that’s very convenient, you’ll say the ads, but they have to be paid for exactly so they so it’s very, very hard to get organic reach. But what about the sense that you just you’re constantly chasing facebook and all they have to do is tweak the algorithm on groups are out of favor, and then all the work we put into creating our homeless in oakland group now she doesn’t get to reach anymore because of ah, code change, some program, a lot of things that i used to talk about and tell people to do. You can’t do now or it’s, not in fashion. So that’s an important point because i did a facebook live, we called it a boxing match with noah from noah from causevox and his point, and he made a really good point is that you don’t want to, you know, build your house on rented ground. You want teo, you want a customized co-branded solution that you can control, like network for good, like something like that that you can put your stamp on, but also you can get that information you can customize the welcome email that goes out. You can customize what people see when they log in. You can actually get their information, so facebook is just a tool. It’s a tool in your toolbox and, you know, spend time on your website spend time on your email. There was so many sessions around email, marketing, automation, donor acquisition spend time on that if your followers on facebook if your people are active on facebook if you’re comfortable and you have a pretty engaged presence, it’s, just something to explore, and it might work, like, for the organization’s case studies that i gave they neither of them set out to use facebook tools, they registered, and then they just found that their supporters wanted an easy way to raise money for them. And it was just a tool name into work so people can look at their pages. Polaris in d, c there, anti human trafficking and the mental and mental health america. Okay, go there, page like them, check it out, check it out. We still have a few minutes left together, okay, let’s, see getting your community fundraiser for you. Yes, talk about that signing up, registering. We know how to do that for facebook payments. So getting your community of fund-raising for you that’s i mean, what polaris does is they have a dedicated strategy and they’re focused on birthdays, so they have a sign up page on their web site. I think this is really brilliant where you can put your birthday in, and i don’t know what i don’t know what you get in return, but you put your birthday, and when you signed up for the email list, then right around your birthday, they have a siri’s of automated emails that go out and they say, hey, we noticed that you’ve donated to us you support organization it’s a, you know, two weeks out from your birthday, would you set up a facebook fund-raising for us and here’s how to do it? And then on their birthday, they remind them, and then, you know, i think they probably go into a different funnel whether or not they set up a fundraiser or not, but the key is just promotion and education around these tools, so don’t sign up for facebook payments and then call me and say no one’s donating because the first thing i’m going to say is, did you tell? Anybody, you’re promoted, did you promote it? Did you tell anybody? Did you have a specific system? I love the birthday idea. They’re focused, and charity water does that to their focused on donate your birthday, don’t your birthday obviously you could do you know a fundraiser for anything you want, but they’re focused and they have a strategy and it’s so much easier to figure out like k p eyes and measurements and metrics of success when you have a focused strategy like their goal and actually i don’t know their goals. So jos, i’m sorry if this is wrong, but i think polaris say their goal is to have twenty people set up a fundraiser every month or something that’s easily measurable unquantifiable. So i yeah, i just i think if i can impart any words to non-profits that are very stressed out about using facebook tools, i would just explore them. There’s a they have a website, they have videos that walking through facebook does and, you know, sign up, make sure you’re registered if you have a five twenty three number, so if someone wants to donate, they can if it’s not something that fits into your overall, you know, marketing fund-raising strategy. Then, you know, don’t do it. Okay, okay. Let’s see, what do you love about this work that you’re doing so i love it, okay, so since we work together, i published my book storytelling in the digital age, i do a lot of speaking and i do consulting mostly around strategic communications, so i do a lot of training around the actual tools on creating fund-raising campaigns, but another half is trying to create a message that works well online. So how can you know? Non-profits have a mission statement that’s five sentences filled with jargon very complicated. How do you distill that into you know, bite-sized pieces and make it easier and more palatable for online audience is because you can’t publish a textbook facebook or twitter or instagram whatever you use. So yeah, i really like it. I really like it. But that’s i think non-profits get hung up on the tools. But what? What is it you love about what you’re doing? What is that? I love. Why? Why do you love it so well? Because i feel like my job. My mission is to help non-profits become better communicators and to knock it so hung up on the tools so they come to me and they have a million questions about instagram and interim stories and snap champa and i kind of talk him off the ledge on them down and say it’s, not about the tools it’s about your message and it’s about your goals and it’s about what you want to accomplish. And then once we hash all that out, then we can pick the right tool. You know what i mean? Because you say, like, say, you go to a hardware store, they want to buy a hammer, you could build a house, or you could hang a painting. You know what i mean? It’s? Just a tool. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Okay? All right. Sounds good. She’s julia campbell, author. Trainer. Speaker futurist jake campbell, social marketing. Thank you very much. Thanks. Tony xero conceive you. The interview was sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. And you are with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Storytelling too. And test quest. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com bye, tell us. Credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s. Ah, creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Family votes is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein, you’re with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. E-giving cubine hello, this is bruce chamlong, host of the web design and technology coach. 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What is real engagement with your networks? How do you achieve it? What are the right metrics to know whether you’re succeeding? My guests are Lauren Girardin, marketing and communications consultant, and Shari Ilsen, director of engagement at VolunteerMatch. (Recorded at NTEN’s Nonprofit Technology Conference (NTC)).df
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and i want to thank you so much for being with me last week, the two hundredth show wow, that was just great great fund! Now we have to go back to recorded music, but the two hundred show stays in my mind. It was terrific and i’m glad you’re with me because i’d be forced to endure the pain of bronchi actresses if i had to shoulder the burden of knowing that you had missed today’s show engagement, motivating and measuring what israel engagement with your network’s, how do you achieve it? What are the right metrics to know whether you’re succeeding? My guests are lauren girardin, marketing and communications consultant, and shari ilsen, director of engagement at volunteermatch that was recorded at intends non-profit technology conference and t, c and facebook strategies. Drew bernard is ceo of actionsprout and he’s got the tools, strategies and tactics to find your supporters among your facebook fans that was also reported it and recorded at ntc tony’s take two it’s summer i hope you’re taking real time off responsive by generosity siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks generosity siri’s dot com here’s the first of the recordings from ntcdinosaur engagement welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fourteen the hashtag is fourteen and t c with me now are lauren girardin and sherry ilsen lauren is a marketing and communications consultant and sherry ilsen is director of engagement for volunteermatch ladies, welcome hi thank you. Glad you’re both with with me. Thank you very much. Your your workshop topic is you can capture lightning in a bottle motivating and measuring engagement so let’s start with let’s. Start with lauren and let’s start with motivating engagement how what should non-profits be doing differently and better that about about real engagement. The trick with the way to motivate engagement is to keep ramping it up so often will get our communities, and our audience is involved in our cause. And we asked for the same things over and over again and it’s really about figuring out what people have already done and then getting them to take that next step. So if they’ve liked your facebook page to get them to sign a petition to really keep saying there’s, more and more, you can do. We want you to get more emotionally involved with our cause and with our organization on dh sherry. Just liking a facebook page that’s not real engagement? Well, no, but it is important to remember that it can be the first step. It’s a start? Yeah. So it’s just, i think to what lauren said it’s about never being fully satisfied, always thinking about how you can get that person and that particular person more engaged. Okay, andi let’s, stay with you and let’s. Talk about what, what? What forms engagement might take, whether it be facebook or otherwise and we have plenty of time together, you know, twenty five minutes or so. So we’ll have chance tto flesh out some topics, but what does that? What does engagement mean too? To the two of you, i would think that’s a great question, because the truth is engagement means something very different depending on the goals of your organisation and so it’s, always important to keep those in mind for volunteermatch we reach out to different audiences. Tto help connect non-profits and volunteers so with our non-profits our goal is teo get them to use our technology that we provide for free to connect with potential volunteers to help with their missions. And so engagement might be simply learning about what we do or it might be coming to a webinar or it might be just following us on facebook so they can begin to build that relationship with us as a trusted resource. Okay? And lauren let’s talk about going real, real engagement. What is that? What might else about that mean? Yeah, it’s, depending on what your organization does. So i work with a lot of clients who works with teens and youth, and so for them, engagement takes a different model than it might for if you’re trying to engage non-profits so they often will be trying to get used to become more involved directly in the community, so actually to take there sort of online fandom, and they’re online passion and convert that into actual action in person. So whether it’s getting them to write a letter to their congress person or to get them to even just register to vote, which is a big challenge with youth today, so get them really directly involved in in-kind of real world engagement. And so some of this is shifting your digital audiences into that new sort of engagement, which can be a challenge because very often our communication channels are online. I’ve had this guest aria finger ceo of of do something yeah, and there they are notoriously good at engaging, what, thirteen to twenty, twenty five year olds, right? Right and she’s been on the show a couple of times talking about exactly that. A lot of they do a lot with mobile, you’re i assume you’re your clients cherry are doing that, lauren yeah, no, do something not organise a wonderful example of using online in digital communications to get real world engagement there there actually in one of the first non-profit steve snapchat to take their audiences into new engagement levels and actually using them in another session in ten on saturday is an example of really using these emerging technologies to dr engagement in whole new ways and that’s there they’re doing an excellent job with that audience and their look too often as a model by other organizations and the lesson for our organizations that may not be capturing or trying to engage thirteen to twenty five year olds is go where your constituents are. Yes, yeah, it’s, it’s really about, you know, when we in our session, we’re talking. About when you are before you even get to engagement, you need to look at your activity metrics, the things that you are doing to engage your audience is and then the reach metrics that you have, where it’s it’s really about making sure that you’ve got the audience there listening, and so yeah, when you’re looking at your reach metrics, you do need to think about where your audiences are to make sure not only that you have the right number of people listening, but you have the right people entirely right? So it doesn’t help to right now. It’s hard to engage teens on facebook because they’re really not there there, departing from facebook, right? And in very big numbers or they have departed? Yeah, yeah, and they’ve moved to twitter to snapchat to whatsapp and so do something is actually taking that those demographics very seriously and chasing the teen audience where they’ve gone now interesting you you mentioned that they’ve moved to twitter? I didn’t know i didn’t know that i knew that i knew snapchat very popular. More teens now on twitter yeah, they it’s just a conversational tool fourteen so you know twitter, i know that we’re on it for professional reasons for professional conversations, but it’s now just used for that direct messaging is more private and so that’s feature a twitter that has been working for youth audiences all the gm gm, right. Okay, charlie let’s. See a little more about these reach metrics in these activity metrics before you start to engage. What? What? What? What can you add to what? Lawrence? Well, one thing i like about lawrence model that she’s presenting in our session is that she actually starts before the activity she starts with capacity. So, it’s it’s really important to consider the capacity that you and your organization have to run this campaign, be strategic about how you design it, to make sure that you can actually handle what you need to be doing. And then i think that’s very sound. I mean, i think a lot of non-profits sometimes maybe emulate something that they see another organization did that was successful, or they mohr plan on what they like to be able to like to do versus what they have real capacity and capability to do, right? Yeah, exactly. And i think that the activity metrics in particular, are important to pay attention to for future planning, and what do you mean when you say activity metrics, we’re talking about things like how many tweets you sent out or yeah, how many facebook posts or thie number of blogged articles you comptel, i come from digital communication, the number of small events you run if that’s something you’re doing its part of your strategy as well, because those things could be part of what is it could be create a bottleneck in reaching your goal you could find if you do the analysis that the problem you’re having with reaching your goal for the campaign isn’t with your reach isn’t with your engagement, but in just simply how much you’re doing or the way that you’re doing it. You just tried to tackle too much, too much or too little. And so by tweaking the activity metric, you can often make a big difference down the road in terms of engagement. Okay, excellent. Lauren. I see you. You’re nodding a lot. Yeah, well, so sherry and i, we both come from a lot of digital marketing. And so one of the things that i’ve been working with some clients on is really not just about how off a lot of people ask, how often should i be tweeting shy between every day? Should i be sending five tweet today? And the answer to give them is it depends. It depends on your audiences, and it actually depends on when you’re audiences are online and are on twitter when your audiences are listening. So with your activity metrics it if you look at the number of tweets you’re sending and you’re still not getting the results, you want what you can do to khun try to increase the number of tweets you’re doing or you could look use of the tools that exist in twitter and other tools took find out when people are online and instead of doing more tweets, do tweets at a more appropriate time. So with a kind of mine works with a lot of mothers and they were doing their tweets during their work day because that’s when they’re on line. And it turns out that when they looked at their audience that the mothers are not on twitter during the day they’re at work, they’re with their kids it’s when the kids go to bed on weekdays and on weekends, and so they shifted when they did their tweeting same number of tweet, same amount of effort, just a different publication schedule. The best tweets are like eight thirty or nine o’clock at night, right? Exactly. Ok, ok, and now some of these tools now twitter will give you that when when your when your followers are most online are most active on twitter is not within twitter. Self? Yeah, twitter has that facebook has that in their their insights and then there’s other tools that’ll do that analysis for you, depending on whether you’ve got an enterprise level software or there’s some free tools out there that do that as well. And everyone you want to mention. Lorts zoho i’ve been sticking with the channel tools just because, yeah, they tend to be the most consistent with a lot of the tools that are out there that are free, they sometimes don’t work consistently or they aren’t free forever or they go away. Yeah, that’s always the risk, right? So it’s, the tool suite is sort of a moving target at all times, okay, so you’re working within within each when i can kapin does okay, e-giving anything, the thing getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. I think. Cubine this’s. The way we’re hosting part of my french new york city guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french. Is that coming language? Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us. Pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna all right, so i love this advice about planning, spending time in the planning before you start executing. And i think, okay, cherry let’s, send sherry let’s, say a lot more about that, or let’s, go from that to, like the next stage. Let’s. Start talking about what real engagement looks like. You’ve mentioned a couple of examples. The petition, perhaps what are some other examples of other examples of real engagement? Well, again, it depends on the level of engagement you’re looking for, but for volunteermatch, for example, we feel that anything that gets people thinking about what we do and what we can provide be, you know, one click for us is not necessarily engagement anything beyond the one click anything that’s going to be a little stickier, that’s what we’re going for in terms of an engagement level, what about would that include capturing an email, capturing short email? Yeah, emails and still an extremely effective tool, especially for non-profits anyone that tells you differently, i don’t know it’s is lying in denial email still one of our most effective communications tools. Okay, okay, so let’s, say a little more. We got this little smoke coming in. Or, uh, is that just warm air? Does look hazy. I’m wantto that’s a fog machine for some dance party. That’s going on? Yeah, i don’t hear the music. Okay? We’re just a little way don’t we’re not shooting video but there’s a little fog cloud that just came upon the came upon the stage. I don’t know if it’s cold air meeting hot air either because there was there was a cold breeze, but i don’t know. All right, we’re giving, we’re giving listeners the full experience can’t see it, but we want you to know that it’s happening if you can’t hide it well, i guess i could have hidden it because you can’t see it, but i feel like flaunting it anyway, right? So little cloud is going to seems to be dissipating now, though no one seems to be panicking so nobody’s pointing out, but if they do, you have to finish this interview weigh twelve minutes into it. Now we’re not stopping down with the ship way we may, but we’re taking this interview with us on and in its entirety. Okay, so let’s, say a little more now about about capturing engagement. Lauren, what can you looking at? So, you know, beyond the clique is is often where we want to encourage people to go to really go beyond the light beyond the click, to think about capturing an email or thinking about what action you can ask people to take. So even if it’s it’s a lot of organizations that i work with digitally, they’re not ready to have a big ask they don’t have a petition for folks to sign they don’t have download for them to take, they don’t have something for them to order it right there. They’re not selling a service or a product right that’s those conversion tracking those engagements are easier for people who have something to sell and non-profits often don’t have it. So what sometimes you need to come up with is a creative way to elicit engagement like there are some people to take a photo of themselves doing something in their community or he’s probably seen these a lot in social media, where people will hold up a sign and will use a hashtag to sort of indicate their alignment with an issue by saying something with a sign in an image and that actually takes a lot of effort, and you can take that as a really big indicator of engagement because not only are our people listening to what you’re saying, but now they’re ready to take a personal stance even if it’s not a vote and then what might you do with suppose you collect a dozen or a hundred of these photos? What might you do with them then? Oh, they’re great to share in annual reports and with funders the grantmaker is that i’ve worked with love to see people really putting their face to the cause and those sorts of social campaigns where you get that almost endorsement khun really mean a lot when you’re looking for grant money or for when you’re hoping to get a higher profile press coverage or something like that. Okay, excellent. We’re trying to motivate this engagement events or the photo that’s a and people you know, i think people like to show off themselves. Oh, selfie xero dellaccio yes, now from since the academy awards, even now there is through the roof, but they were popular to begin with, but since ellen took our selfie at the academy awards sherry, anything anything you can add about motivate this engagement? Yeah, i would say, first of all, the type of campaigns that lauren was just describing the user generated content campaigns are great because they are too prominent, you know, they’re double edged, you are getting people more engaged and building a stronger community, and you’re producing content that you, khun repurpose later it’s really such an efficient way to do communications for a non-profit and what i’ve found is that engagement of this type is very similar to fund-raising in that you have to get over this inmate barrier that we have thinking that people don’t want to hear from you people initially took that first step that, like that click they gave you your email because they care they care about your non-profit your cause, your message, or at least they did at that point, so find that colonel and give them another way to get involved show them how they can continue to nurture that a sense of caring that they had it’s, not your like, lawrence said we’re not selling to people were enabling them to do something that they already care about. We just can’t miss that chance. We have to continue engaging people where they are in the way that they want to be engaged. Excellent. I wish listeners could see your face so i think i think i i’m confident i can hear it in your words how passionate you are about that’s outstanding really let’s go let’s, move to the other part of your workshop which is measuring this measuring this engagement on dh let’s you know, let’s, stay with you guys sharing what can you tell us about it? Measure the right things so you’re you’re metrics, especially the major ones that are going to define success, should grow directly from your goals, your organizational goals as well as the goals of the campaign think very strategically about this. Otherwise you’re going to get bogged down in facebook insights and google analytics, and you’re never going to find your way out. All right? So look closely at what the goals of the campaign are on dh find true measures of success around that. When we come, we come, we define it any clearer. I don’t know. Well, i i like to leave listeners with things they can execute, you know, not theory, and i don’t i don’t feel like we’re the theory level, but can we drill down even more into the tactic? Yeah, well, it really helps to start with us, marchal tohave a goal that has metrics already built into it. So when you’re setting out your strategy for your communications, for example, you have to think about what your organization is trying to achieve the impact is trying to have and then you want to make it smart. I want to make it specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and well, people say time down, but i want to say thrilling changes. Yeah, oh, i own my own it smart has been redefined here if your goals are thrilling than your team’s going to stay motivated to to do them, but also to measure them because they’re going to be more meaningful if they’re exciting and a thrilling goal is actually going to lead to a more thrilling campaign and two more thrilling communications, and ultimately, if your communications were thrilling, they’re going to be a lot more engaging, so you’re just bound to have better results if you’re excited and smart girls can get a little wonky in the little dry and we don’t want that, you know, we’re supposed to be passionate about the change we’re trying to create in this world, so smart, thrilling goals get you there. And if you build in the metrics into these smart goals, then it’s a lot easier for you to figure out what to measure as you’re going along. Okay on dh let’s, let’s keep drilling down into what? What? Maybe what are some examples of unwise. Well, i know you’re going to say it all depends what your campaign eso not that answer is barred. You can’t because otherwise we have to end here and i don’t want to end. I know you have more to say, so say it so let’s say more about measuring the right stuff. I’ll leave to you, you need to measure people you need to measure the people that you change the minds that you imbue with knowledge, you need to measure the way that people behave and what changes about them on dh it’s, not it’s, not about pure audience numbers, right? It’s, not about the size of your crowd it’s about the quality, and so we’re really trying tio look at whether or not you’ve made an improvement in people’s lives, those were the things that ultimately you really want to measure them most. Now you might not be able to do that because surveys are expensive and field studies or expensive, but you can look at indicators for those behaviors, so one of the examples that i use is organizations who are trying tio ramp up civic engagement in their community civic engagements. Kind of hard to measure it’s very vague. But you can. You can have a proxy measure, which is voter registrations. So you can actually see if you have more civic engagement in your community by measuring voter registration rates on an actual voting rates in elections. And you can take that as a sign that you’ve had an influence on people, which is what you’re going for. Any online tools that you can offer tools or sites to resource is that you can you can offer either either of you for this helping you measure so one one that we always point people to use google analytics, because so much of what we ask people to do, especially for doing digital marketing communications, is through our websites, and if you use google analytics and you set up your goals and your conversions in google analytics, you can actually track whether people are taking meaningful actions on your website. So it’s not just about page views, but it can be about how long people spend reading your content, whether they look at more than one page, the type of content they’re looking at, whether they complete a form that you’ve got in your sights. So if you have your petitions hosted there, it is pretty important to make sure that you’re getting people to take that step and push that button at the end of whatever process you’re you’re hosting on your site. One of my clients, they do condom orders for teens in california, and for them it is really about the condom wars. Orders are orders. Yes. Get a freak on. What? What could’ve been a campaign? You could’ve kayman condom. Moore’s is also now in very intrigued. And i want to build this think of any right now could be one of the next throwing gold. Yeah, well, they do condom orders for teens so teens can order condoms so that they can have safe sex and prevent unplanned pregnancies. So it’s a really big deal for them to track how many people come to the condom order page to come to that form and actually fill out the form and so that’s a meaningful metric for them and anything they can do to improve and increase that completion rate of that form? Is it really big strategy for them? They want to take it from fifty percent up to seventy five percent, because that just means that they’re creating less barriers for people to take that action. Okay, shari anything one at about using google analytics? Att this point when we go a little further? Yeah, it’s an invaluable tool for volunteermatch not just at the campaign level in terms of online marketing, but for our entire organization are benchmarks are built off of google analytics conversions and goals like i said, we worked to connect non-profits with volunteers, and we measure those connections on our website and then translate that into meaningful insights about the impact we’re having in the world. And how often are you looking at the the analytics? Well, on an organization wide level, we do that quarterly, so we have quarterly reports that show, you know, how much of a social value are we creating? Aw, nah, team level we look overall about once a month, certain tools, of course, or more often, twitter is certainly a weekly tool, if not more often than that. Okay, yeah, and can we go beyond google analytics? You have recommendations for tools beyond google analytics. You’re one of the ones is is any sort of clicked tracking that you can use for social media? So whether it’s usually earl shorter like bentley or you may have a custom one built into your site, where you shorten the links you can share socially, and then you can see how many times they’ve been clicked. And then you can also see which tweets or which shares on facebook are the things that cause those clicks and it’s not about tracking every single tweeter, every single share. So with the client who works with condom orders for teens, they tracked that topic more closely than they track all of their other social media effort, so that helps them not get bogged down by tracking too many things, and the clicks themselves aren’t always the the end result that they’re looking for, but they can see whether or not particular messages are helping direct people to their website, which is where more information is living. Since video is so common, how are the analytics in youtube? Either of you helpful in terms of? I don’t know, i know basic one is how long someone watches a video, so can that be instructive? Tio how long your videos are to be? I don’t know youtube analytics helpful, yeah, so it can be helpful. One of the organizations that i like to look at because they have really great resource is looking at their engagement levels is up worthy, and so they host a lot of videos on their sites, and they’re looking at what they’re calling attention minutes, which isn’t just about the page views that they generate through the sharing that they do of really good messages, but they also look at how long people stay on the page. They look if they play the video, if they watch it all the way through it’s interesting youtube peoples behavior and youtube generally has changed. It used to be short, that is, were the way to go so less than three minutes and youtube itself has been doing some analytics of their data, and they’ve realized that longer videos on youtube often have the best engagement level. People are really looking at youtube is almost kind of like tv now, so it doesn’t have to be short but again, it’s really about what your audiences are are interested. If your audience is on mobile phones, they may not be interested in watching a fifteen minute video. All right, we’re going to wrap up, but shari, anything you want, leave us with around measuring the measuring the right stuff and motivating this engagement. Yeah, i just have one final thought and it’s something that i’ve been discovering myself more and more as i ramp up volunteermatch is engagement and a moment of personal discovery. We’re not in this. Alone and the best resource are the is the brilliance and the tools that have been created by people before us. There are people there are non-profits that are doing a great job of this. So talk to coworkers talked to piers, joined, linked in groups joined, meet up groups in your area and talk to people about what they’re doing because you can copy them. We’re gonna leave it there. Copy cats. But, you know, good advice, really. I love the way you both of you were passionate and and thinking about this on behalf of small and midsize charities. It’s really it’s really inspiring. You’ll have a great session, don’t worry, and i bet this help. I bet this help. Lauren gerard is a marketing and communications consultant and i heard her say she’s, based in new york city, based in san francisco. But i spent a lot of time in based in san francisco and what’s your twitter id girardin l g i r a r d i n l thank you. Sherry ilsen, director of engagement for volunteermatch with your idea on twitter sherri ce ilsen s l s e n thank you both very much. Thank you, durney martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fourteen and t c the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen thanks very much for being with us. Of course, i’m grateful to everyone at ntcdinosaur non-profit technology network love those folks generosity siri’s they host multi charity peer-to-peer five k runs and walks if you’re using summer, perhaps to plan for your fall or end of year fund-raising they have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia and toronto. If you think a run walk might make sense for you, then please pick up the phone. You know that’s how i like to do business. Talk to dave lynn he’s the c e o tell him you’re from non-profit radio you’ll get dave at seven one eight five o six, nine, triple seven or, if you prefer, on the web generosity siri’s dot com it’s summer in the united states are you taking care of yourself? I hope that you are. Are you taking riel time off? That’s vacation without work, email without work calls without work, text messages. No work, no contact with work. That is a real vacation. You’re in a e-giving business. You work for a charity that helps other people, whatever it is that you do around charities, whether you’re in one or you’re supporting one or a bunch because you’re a consultant, you’re giving to other people, and if you’re going to give, you’ve got to take and i think take vacations, please take care of yourself so that you can do that giving work for other people, rest your body and your mind. This summer disconnect. I had a listener message me just a couple of days ago, she said, you share your soul with the world, and i’ve been thinking about that a lot and i think she’s right? You know? And when you’re sharing and giving to others willingly, it’s exhausting and you have to take care of yourself, you have to rejuvenate, i’m doing mine the end of august, i’ve got my complete disconnect ten days off the end of august. I hope that you are doing the same for yourself because you are sharing your souls with the world as well. Please be good to yourself this summer, that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty fifth of july, the twenty ninth show of the year. Here’s another interview from the ntc on facebook strategies. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of and t c twenty fourteen were at the wardman marriott hotel in washington, d c with me is drew bernard and his topic at the conferences facebook strategies finding supporters among your fans drew welcome, thank you. Pleasure to have you. Thanks a lot. Beer. Thanks. And thanks for taking time in a busy at a big conference. Teo to sit down. What? What? What do you think? Non-profits aren’t doing so well that they could be doing better in their facebook strategies? You know, i saw mama, i’m a big fan of the word engagement as opposed to building fans growing pages, you know, historically, we were for a long time, organizations were very focused on building fan pages, sort of collecting fans, and if that became the key metric, how many? How many fans do we have? Right? Well, we all kind of know that that that actually turned out not to be a great strategy for the organization now good for facebook, but not necessarily for the mission to the organizations and really the the key piece, so i historically was relatively a crim uh, gin about facebook for years, but a couple of years ago, about a year and a half ago, facebook began to roll outs and changes that allowed us to do somethings where we could engage people on facebook beyond like sharing comment and specifically doing things like signing petitions, running all kinds of different actions on on facebook and the three that the topic that we’ll be talking about tomorrow there’s really three primary things organizations need to be doing on facebook. First of all, they need to be reaching enough people so there’s really no point of participating on facebook if you’re not reaching a meaningful number of people and it turns out that a cz many organizations have learned the hard way fan count and reach are not the same thing facebook doesn’t doesn’t send your you know, each post each each comment out to all of your supporters or all of your fans, you sort of have to earn every every post that goes out has to earn the reach that video to calm that, that it gets to the number of people that gets too and the way you do that. Is by posting content that does get people engaging with it, whether it’s clicking like share comment or something beyond that so reaches the first thing i do. I’m going to stop for a second that you could you turn down the main in the back there’s a bit of a buzz and kind of a little echo on a on the black box. It’s ah button a knob labeled mane okay, i’m sorry, so that’s getting think yes, the reach is sort of the first thing and without reach and i spent spending quite a bit of time talking about reach because reach without reach there’s really no point, if you’re going to reach, you know a handful of people, you probably are better off drinking coffee with them. It’ll probably be protective the second thing once you want, you’re reaching a substantial number of people with content, and it really is a matter about posting content that gets people engaging with it. Because you earn reach and facebook by creating content that engages people facebook wants, you know they’re going to prioritize content, they do prioritise content that gets people engaging with it. So that’s the first thing. The second thing once you’re reaching a substantial number of people is to really be engaging them, tio develop real relationships, so cultivating real relationships with people and not just like clickers. So, you know, historically, the idea that the the key goal of facebook was building awareness where we all know now that awareness alone doesn’t, doesn’t really moved the dial in terms of missions, so it really is about cultivating riel relationships with people and that’s a really that’s a real art it is, it is, except we do it every day, right? I mean, organizations, individuals, you know, one on one, we build real relationship people are, of course, but doing it on facebook, you know, it’s it’s not as much as you might think. It’s it’s it takes things like participating in the comment stream. Eso when you know when a person leaves a comment in the in the news feed. So first of all, i i guess i should back up and say that facebook, for all intensive purposes, really is all about the news feed. Facebook pages are sort of an organization’s brand, but really, nobody goes to the facebook page, everything is in the in the in the end, users, readers, participants news feed on dso earning a place in that news video, that the first piece and that’s that’s the reach peace, and then really the second piece around around thie sort of cultivating real relationships. It is an art, but it’s really just more about being a paying attention to it being being thoughtful about it. This is not a place to come and blast out communications it’s really a place to come and participate in dialogues and discussions. And i like to the idea of being thoughtful and that’s the way we conduct ourselves, hopefully in our face-to-face in our time related really is different. You want to be a thoughtful person, that’s, right? That’s, right? So and then the other the other part of that is also giving people things to do inside a facebook that go beyond clicking like, you know, clicking like share comment those air required in order to accomplish riel reach you need to do those things so reaches is is accomplished by creating content that gets shared, gets engagement, then the second piece is is giving people things to do beyond beyond those things. Whether it’s signing petitions, you know, joining an organization in thanking volunteers, you know, joining joining an organization organization in celebrating victories, successes, all kinds of different actions things there that are more meaningful than just i like this piece of content. And what we find is that about ten percent of people who engage with a with an organization’s post will often go on to take a deeper action. And those are the things that really that really matter, right? So in the in the you know, boots on the ground world in the real world, we build real relationships with people by engaging with them over time and in deeper ways over time. You know, you person you know, first becomes aware of an organisation, it might start tracking that organization and then slowly becomes more and more involved. And the same thing happens in facebook so that cultivation pieces the second critical piece without that it’s really? You know, facebook’s never really going to provide a a measurable return on investment. So we have the reach cultivation. You were hitting that’s, right? Three main three main points. Yeah. So cultivation is the second piece and in order to do that, of course, you gotta have you got be reaching enough people, you’ve got e-giving them things to do that that are meaningful and that that relate to the mission, and then the third piece is conversion or capturing data. So, you know, facebook at this point is only delivering, you know, you’re an organization’s posts to a small percentage of their fan count, so, you know, if an organization has ten thousand fans, they’re they’re very luckily, they’re very lucky of facebook’s delivering those posts to one thousand of those so ten percent is there’s a high number? It was, you know, a year ago, they were saying was fifteen it’s down now, however, organizations who are posting content that’s designed to be engaging are still seeing high levels of delivery rate, so that but that third piece, though, is about converting people into email addresses into other types of other types of data. So the organization’s contract those relationships and get to know them overtime. So one of the things that’s super fun to do within actionsprout is we have a little people tab, and we put this in almost as an afterthought. Um, but what? It does is we track anybody who likes her comments on a post that has an action in it. We tracked that person we capture first name, last name, ah little bit of facebook data even before they often app or fill out any forms, and we begin to track their engagement in their activity with that person within facebook over time. But ultimately, that doesn’t really help facebook’s going. You’re still at the mercy of facebook delivering your message to those people until you have an email address until you have some other way to reach them, so the third piece is converting them and getting them into your database so you can you can build a list of people that, you know, you know, have signed, given petition given petitions or have taken pledges or joined you in thanking volunteers or donors or whatever those things are but critically important issue can also reach out to them via e mail for fund-raising for you to continue that relationship building off of facebook as well, and if they’re younger, they might prefer texting, you might have a text channel engagement through through mobile. Yeah, i mean so, so facebook is that channel for most? For most people, about sixty percent of all mobile sharing today is actually through facebook on dh facebook is your facebook is a mobile tool more so than the desktop tulani more you know, for us well, over sixty five, seventy five percent of all actions that get taken are actually taken on either mobile devices or tablets, so that the percentage of of activity on facebook that’s happening on the desktop is dropping dramatically. Facebook’s been investing ah lot as you, as we all saw, with their what’s up acquisition in mobile, i mean, that’s that’s their top between monetizing the news feed and really figuring out the mobile piece that’s that really is the two priorities i would. I would say that facebook has. Okay. All right. So let’s, spend all time more detail in in each of these three areas that that you outlined drew so reaching, you know, you raise it, earning a place in their in their news feed. How do we can you share some more details? How do we how do we earned that spot? Yeah mean, so so. So content is king. Just as in any any? Communication channel understanding how to create great content that is highly effective with your target audience is key and the way, the way we advise our the organizations who use actionsprout is, we talk about the eighty twenty rule, and we highly recommend that roughly eighty percent of the content that an organization pushes out on its wall has already had some evidence has already proven to have some potential to be engaging on facebook, you know, we say it as having some viral potential, although the word viral there’s often a dirty work out of times, but but something that you’ve already seen work elsewhere, it could be something that, you know, a post that you’ve pushed out before it could be opposed that one of your ally organizations has has been running that’s been doing well, and you’re learning from that s o it’s content that you’ve already seen work before, so so finding great content and either reusing it or or using it, we have a little tool inside of of actionsprout and a little free, actually a free tool as well that you can get to on our website that they’ll allows you to go in. And search any any page inside a facebook the free one does you go and you say i want i want i want to do a quick report on this page and we’ll surface the top performing content within that within that that page in the inspired tool inside of facebook, what we do is we track any pages that the page that you’re paige likes. So if you’re paige likes twenty, thirty pages that relate to your work, we monitor those and we surface the top performing content across those those that that content has already proven to work. So it’s already gotten higher than average engagement for those pages, so so looking for content that and by the way, are those your ally organizations, the ones that that i’ve liked your page, not necessarily that they’ve like yours? You’ve like that? I’m sorry, so the key is to is to go in and set it up so that your any page that you want to be tracking you have in the system, and then we’ll serve us that there’s a tool called crowd tangle that does something similar and at a different level hold more sort of much. More sophisticated level that’s also designed for the same thing. So looking for content that’s already been successful in this way is key. Interesting. And i like the idea that you’re bringing in other people’s content that that’s been successful. I don’t think a lot of organizations are thinking that way. I mean, i think they’re thinking we have to generate our own it’s starting people are starting to understand it. We definitely you starting to see it on on more and more pages where organizations understand that the way i described it is, you know, eighty percent of your content should should have some proven potential. Write thie other twenty percent should be should be, you know, original and is this is easy is sharing. Another page is sometimes it’s a simple on your page. Absolutely sometimes it’s just a simple is doing that it could be a great post. It could be a great mean that that goes out and the action the call to action could simply be thank you, this organization for their great work, right? So you could call out the organization for the great work that they do and you could simply say, join us in thanking them. And that could be the action that you’re engaging someone beyond. Life oppcoll excellent. So so, that idea of looking for content that’s already proven to be successful, reusing that content, sometimes it’s literally just copying it, pacing it into your news feed. Sometimes it’s getting inspiration from somebody else’s stuff. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We liked the idea of having a calendar that is not just a, you know, thinking ahead calendar, but literally looking at your own at the organization’s mission and thinking throughout the year, what are the top dates? What what dates when important things have happened? Let’s spin up some actions around those let’s let’s do some posts that celebrate, you know, it’s, an environmental group, the birthday of yellowstone was one that sierra club did recently that didn’t very, very well for them and and let’s ask people to celebrate with us and taken action beyond clicking like on the post. So so reaches is, you know, great content. I should say that twenty percent that you do of your own the original content, eighty percent of that will fail so it’s that sort of that that’s the the unfair advantage is to those organizations who are looking for proven successfully, successful content, reusing it or learning from it and posting stuff similar and if there are organizations primarily using their own content, which i realize is not contrary to what you’re recommending, but if they are doing that and if your statistic is right that eighty percent of what they’re producing is failing then it’s not eighty percent of twenty percent it’s eighty percent of their of their entire yeah, and i think hyre content, you know, this is, of course using the flippant eighty twenty rules, but but we’ve see hundreds and hundreds of organizations running thousands and thousands of posts and without a doubt the organizations who are reusing their own content, reusing other people’s content, learning from that content and tweaking it are far more successful than those who were trying to be creative every day. Yes, okay, definitely. Why not something else? That’s ah sort of cliche, but, you know, why reinvent the wheel when when there are there are multiple potential sources, these ally organizations that are working as well, why not capitalize on what they’re doing and what what you’ve seen be successful that they’ve done that’s right? That’s, right, and it’s important to give credit where credit’s due also almost crowdsourcing you’re content, and what is it you think about facebook? Facebook is a sharing platform, right? I mean the, you know, ninety nine percent of what you engage with on facebook, it’s stuff that was shared and and and this is just another form of that. So, yes, so reach, you know, looking for content that’s already been proven is something that really does help a lot from a reach standpoint. Okay, we’re gonna move on because surely have ah, maybe just for five minutes left. And i want to talk a little more detail about each of these cultivating, getting, you know, providing things for people to do calls to actions, say, it’s a little more about this. Yeah, i mean, that’s what that’s, what actions? That’s what the impetus for creating actionsprout was the idea that that we finally are in a position now given facebook’s ap eyes for us to give people things to do inside the facebook that that have the potential to deepen our relationship bond. So the any any action you know, the inn in creating a petition offline, it takes a lot of work you’re creating, you know, you have to you have to go in, you create a form on a on a website you often have to create a you know, big e mail blast that it’s the overhead involved in creating a full on campaign is pretty high. So what? We wanted to do with with actionsprout ist create a very simple five minutes or less type of action, that’s something you can give anybody an action to take. So, andi, the example i gave earlier you, if you’re you’re posting a great mean from another organization and in it you want to give that organization credit for that mean, you know, thanks sierra club for the great image instead of saying thanks sierra club for the great image, you can invite people to join us in thanking sierra club for their great work that’s an action that goes beyond your courage or your encouraging them to go to syria, not necessarily the fact that actually click on our work here. If you click on that, you’re being then driven into the app buy-in and users driven onto the apple on the organization’s page and can complete the action with a single with a single click. So so that’s an example of an action doesn’t you don’t have to have you don’t have to use actionsprout tio could have people do actions beyond by any means. In fact, one of the organizations of that that uses actionsprout is that daily? Coast who’s been running actions for years on their facebook page, and they’re what they’ve done over the years. They’ve trained their audience on facebook to be engage er’s so their conversion rates are incredible on dh they have an incredibly active audience that people who want to do things the way they’ve done that in the past is they’ve simply driven them off to a website to fill out a you know, on a campaign landing page which works as well. It’s not it’s, not his viral, so with with actionsprout every time someone takes an action, we have about nine hundred that that action gets shared about nine hundred times within facebook, which is because we front load all the viral, but but that’s an example of an oven oven action. So whether it’s a petition, you know, a pledge, whatever those things are driving action from facebook is important, so that so from a from a cultivation standpoint, it’s those additional actions beyond, like comment and share that you can track there deep in those ways, a lot people would call that engagement ring totally isn’t feeling engagement, absolutely just a minute or so men and a half left or so let’s talk a little more detail about conversion, which, you mean capturing data. I mean, capturing data, we can be in touch with you beyond facebook that’s, right? Yeah. So, i mean, really, these things were all as you guys, you can tell they’re all extremely intertwined, you know, without reach, you don’t have god with you don’thave convert any kind of cultivation or or reach right without it, without engagement, you don’t have reach this said the third piece around conversion really is about data capture and the data capture you know, we this was something that no one would even is sort of a non topic in just about any other space other than social. But the idea of really capturing and tracking the engagement of people from facebook or on facebook into your c r m is is sadly knew, but really powerful, okay, we’re going to leave it with just give us a tip that that’s not actionsprout dependent for how to convert and captured from data let’s just say it’s an email address? Yeah, i mean, any any action that you’re driving from your any post that you’re pushing out that is that’s doing well or will do well? It’s has any viral potential that doesn’t have a call to action that drives a person somewhere, whether it’s actionsprout whether it’s your website, you know, petition form or whatever that drives someone that doesn’t have a link in it to do something beyond clicking like is a missed opportunity to capture data, okay? And if you’re driving them to your website, then there might be a window box that asked for an email petition, of course, but that’s right could be a simple, you know, sign up could join in, like, go like, yeah, see how out of touch and window boxes. Hyre planter that’s, right, but put your tulips out the spring’s coming put them in the planter box planter box pops up now yeah, lightbox, whatever it is. So any any post that you push out that doesn’t have something for your most ardent supporters to do beyond that? The ones that are ready to do something more than just click like on the post is a missed opportunity. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very much. He’s drew is ceo and co founder of actionsprout which i’m sure you’ll find it actionsprout dot com drew, thanks very much. Thank you. Pleasure. It’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fourteen. Thanks very much for being with us. My thanks again to everybody at ntcdinosaur and the non-profit technology network next week, maria semple is with me she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder. Our diet of dirt cheap and free you know her. If you missed any part of today’s show, you can find it on tony martignetti dot com. Please remember generosity siri’s, dave lynn seven one eight, five o six, nine, triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz, he’s at the board he’s, our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of j campbell social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein what a thrill it was to have him in the studio last week. You with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get me to thinking. E-giving cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking.
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