Tag Archives: peer-to-peer fundraising

Nonprofit Radio for January 25, 2021: Peer-To-Peer For 2021

My Guest:

Brandon Smith: Peer-To-Peer For 2021

David Hessekiel returns with a look at this year’s P2P prospects. But not before a survey of the P2P carnage that was 2020. There are distinct opportunities for 2021 and David shares the collective advice of thought leaders and practitioners. He’s the founder of Peer-to-Peer Professional Forum.



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[00:01:53.74] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of gastroesophageal reflux disease if you made me choke on the idea that you missed this week’s show. Peer to Peer for 2021. David Hess Akil returns with a look at this year’s P two p prospects, but not before a survey of the PDP carnage that was 2020. There are distinct opportunities for 2021 David shares the collective advice of thought leaders and practitioners. He’s the founder of Peer to Peer, Professional Forum and tony Steak, too. We’ve calmed down, were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant demo and a free month. Here is peer to peer for 2021. It’s my pleasure to welcome back after several years. David Hesse Kiel. He is founder and president of Cause Marketing Forum Inc. Helping nonprofits enlist millions of people to raise billions of dollars through the peer to peer professional forum and partner with businesses to do well by doing good through engage for Good. Both organizations hold national conferences to provide access to practical information and inspiration To help nonprofits forge valuable connections. You’ll find them at peer to peer forum dot com and at Engage for good calm. David is at Dave cause welcome back to non profit radio, David.

[00:02:14.75] spk_0:
It’s great to be back, tony.

[00:02:16.77] spk_1:
It’s a genuine pleasure. Good to have you after after probably too many years. I’m sorry for that. But here we are now. So no, no more lamentations

[00:02:24.90] spk_0:
about no time like the present

[00:02:37.34] spk_1:
to talk about peer to peer. Um, first, just acquaint us with you’ve got You’ve got three organizations there. You got the Cause Marketing Forum. You got the peer to peer professional forum and you’ve got engaged for good way. Know what they’re doing generally, but drill down a little bit. Eso listeners understand what

[00:02:43.62] spk_0:
your marketing forum is really just the the holding company for all for these two endeavors a

[00:02:54.60] spk_1:
shell company. That’s where your that’s where you really tax money enough

[00:02:59.56] spk_0:
money to be dealing with the Cayman Islands and all of that. Alright, alright. It isn’t that interesting

[00:03:01.54] spk_1:
about that, Okay?

[00:04:09.54] spk_0:
Actually, originally, I started the company with the conference that was called Cause Marketing Forum, All about how businesses and nonprofits could work together. Over over the years, that area of interest morphed. And so the words cause marketing became a little dated. And so we changed to engage for good, because businesses are now looking more holistically at the whole field of how they can have values and do purpose driven work. Creating a better world while still being faithful to their bottom lines. And so that now involves not only consumer facing programs but programs designed to attract and retain and motivate employees activism on the national and international scale. And a lot more, um, peer to peer professional form. I’m a big name changer. I started that one back in 2000 and seven as the Run Walk Ride Fundraising Council because I think that many of your your listeners will be familiar with the term peer to peer fundraising. But way back in 2000 and six, when I was really pondering this, that didn’t exist. People never use that free we

[00:04:24.73] spk_1:
didn’t say Peter P a peer to peer. So run, walk, run, walk rides.

[00:05:11.44] spk_0:
So I tried to come up with the title that would telegraph what we were talking about. Um, and it took a number of years, but we picked up steam when peered appear became a a common phrase we re branded, and I learned something very interesting along the way. That is a lesson for us all. I learned we had a huge spike in the number of people who came to our conferences, listen to our stuff after we made that change. And I mean, it’s a great It was a great rebranding, but it wasn’t that great. And I was learning that certain people were being so literal that they were saying, Well, if I don’t have a run or walk or a ride, I’m not invited to the party.

[00:05:17.16] spk_1:
E can’t do a dance.

[00:06:18.34] spk_0:
Exactly where is really what we’re talking about? Is this amazing engine off fundraising and community development in which a non profit has its supporters get involved in some activity and then reach out to their networks to get support, as opposed to the traditional form in which most fundraising takes place where the non profit directly makes an ask in many different ways individual giving, legacy, giving all sorts of different campaigns here. They’re using that power of that network to get money from people who who they probably would never have talked to because they weren’t particularly interested. But those relationships create a lot of opportunity. And so a peer to peer professional forum We actually held our last conference the last week of February.

[00:06:22.04] spk_1:
Got it right in. We

[00:06:23.37] spk_0:
were so lucky. In fact, although the pandemic was mentioned in a couple of panels, we had no idea. Of course, tsunami that was approaching us.

[00:06:37.36] spk_1:
You were two weeks lucky or two or three weeks luckier than in 10, and had Thio canceled, canceled their conference and scrambling. Do what? Do what they could thio put online.

[00:07:00.84] spk_0:
I’d like to say that I was smart. I was just in that case, that was very, very 40. Yeah, way had 650 plus people that with largest conference we’ve ever had, and I speak with a lot of these people frequently, And if I had a dollar for every time somebody said to me, Oh, my gosh. The last business trip I took was to be with you in Austin. Yeah, I could retire. Yeah, well,

[00:07:14.76] spk_1:
you have to have 650 bucks. You live meagerly in Rye, New York. If you could retire on $650 a dollar from each one, I’ll give you $10 for each one. You still wouldn’t be able to retire. Six. Its’s a metaphor. It’s an aphorism. Yes, I understand. But you know, I take aphorisms literally. Unless I’m the one using them. And then Then what? You’re being silly. Where you taking me literally for? There’s no winning. There’s no way, because I do. Whatever the hell, it’s nice to post, and

[00:07:42.56] spk_0:
it’s nice to be king. So you’re the host. What do you

[00:07:55.74] spk_1:
say? I’m the host. I’m the king. Yeah, that’s good. I should use King King non profit radio. All right, so, so much a peer to peer is online that there was virtually no impact on the on peer to peer fundraising throughout. 2020 right? It was already online. I’m

[00:10:08.04] spk_0:
sorry you’ve low star game because that’s absolutely not true. Oh, my gosh. It was so a zay said once in a part of time, we were called the Run Walk Ride Fundraising Council, and in one sense, you are right, which is that off all forms of fundraising. The group, the area that perhaps has the deepest penetration of fundraising being conducted online, maybe peer to peer because people who are involved in these types of programs will reach out and use email and social media to collect all of those often smaller contributions. So there is a great penetration, but most of the activity has an analog sort of physical component in the real world, although the balance is changing. Walks, for example, mass gatherings of people, thousands of them every year. We started off in February going okay, It’s getting to be spring walk season. Let’s get going. We’re good luck this season and within a month, basically, this spring, the spring season was completely canceled and everybody was scrambling to create some sort of virtual experience so that they would be able to continue to do that fundraising and then within another couple of months, because we all thought we all hope that we all thought in the early days Well, all right, this is a pandemic. But how long could it last? So we were optimistic that fall programs would happen because these types of programs are very weighted towards the spring and the fall. In a lot of the country, it’s too hot or people are away on vacation, so they don’t do as much of this summer anyway, This the fall went away, and so there was a mad scramble to come up with alternatives to what they had traditionally done

[00:10:15.99] spk_1:
right. And you’ve got some recognition for folks that did that particularly. Well, just just give us some perspective about what? What, what these these cancelations in spring and fall meant to the community nation.

[00:12:14.64] spk_0:
So you know it’s been interesting were one of our best known pieces of research is the called the Top 30 Report. We do a study in which we look at it. The 30 largest programs we do, one actually in the US and we do another one in Canada, and over the first few years that I was involved with this field, we were doing very nicely. The collapse financial collapse happened in 2000 and 8, 2009, and we’ve actually had negative numbers for nearly every year since then. But when you group them all together, it’s usually a couple of percent. Maybe. And I was hoping that this coming year would be the year that we would actually finally have black ink and produce a report that said it was going to that it was positive on General. Well, nothing could be further than the truth, because nonprofits, uh, through no fault of their own, like all of us, in different aspects of our lives, you know, you promised People X they were used to doing X, and now all of a sudden X for 95% of the situations was impossible to do, and so they would create virtual. And anyway, we found out that I’m using a general term that is about a 50% drop off in the amount of money that they raised from these programs. It really like any average. It’s an average. So you had some that were in the 70 80% of recapturing what they had expected to raise, or at least how much they raised the previous year. You have some in the forties, you have some that were canceled and you have a very few very, very, very few situations where they’re actually were physical programs. I actually I mean, there are more than non, but I know of one in particular. Uh, and it was it. It’s been a devastating year.

[00:12:41.64] spk_1:
So you’ve got these three organizations that, um I don’t wanna really talk about them specifically, but name them that that you identified as having done particularly well in adapting. And then, you know, what can we learn from these in aggregate?

[00:13:51.74] spk_0:
Eso It’s It’s again like everybody else. We’ve also had to make major changes the way that we share information. We upped tremendously the frequency off distance learning that we were providing through our organization because everybody was hungry for information and was locked in and they couldn’t go out. Um, and we have had a tradition over in recent years, off every year late, naming one organization as the peer to peer fundraising organization of the year and sort of looking at the totality of what they do. Sometimes it’s for one program. Sometimes it’s for ah group of programs, and as we looked at last year, we decided that it would be more instructive to look at a few examples of programs. He was a program within a program or otherwise that did well and use them as learn herbal moment. So we picked out three, and each of them illustrates a different point.

[00:14:35.24] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times Do you wanna be in papers like that? How about CBS Market Watch? The Chronicle of Philanthropy? Turn two has the relationships with outlets like these, so that when they’re looking for experts on charitable giving, non profit trends or philanthropy, they call turn to turn two calls you turn hyphen two dot ceo now back to peer to peer for 2021

[00:16:46.64] spk_0:
In the case of there’s the L S Association off its Greater Chicago chapter, and even though they had a spring event as part of the large Ailes walk Siri’s, each chapter was sort of left to fend somewhat for themselves, and they made a fast move, which was one of the things that helped some groups and being having having difficulty making a decision and telling people what was coming up. The pike was a big problem for a lot of groups. Um, they said, Okay, there is not going to be a large Chicago walk. What? We know that a whole bunch of you have signed up. About 150 groups have signed up as teams in this case, largely family teams, people who have somebody afflicted with that terrible disease of ales. We want you to create neighborhood walks, and we are sending every one of you a walk in a box kit. Oh, it’s amazing that, you know, it’s ah, big box full of of instructions and door hangers to put around their neighborhood, explaining that they were gonna be walking and asking people to give and all sorts of fun, uplifting type of stuff shirts, etcetera. And they were able to got about 125 groups to actually walk. They had even some more grandiose plans which were defeated by the by the pandemic and by some of the unrest that was happening at the exact time that they were supposed to have their their program. They were going to send, uh, emissaries out to the neighborhood, walks and provide them with with cupcakes and have super It’s a superhero themed walk Superheroes gonna visit there weren’t allowed to send people out. But by giving people something, really, by generating excitement, you look with all the stuff we’ve got. They were able to I think they raised about 75% of what their previous total had been. So a less was so taken with their approach and some of the many smart things that they did that they encouraged and taught many of their other chapters to adopt some of their techniques and it stood them in good stead. And they’re and they’re planning to continue that for next

[00:17:12.06] spk_1:
year. So innovation Is that what you were captured you about the

[00:17:39.54] spk_0:
yes, there was association that all all of these in some way, shape or form of innovation. In this case, the easiest shorthand to say is if you can’t bring the people you know Mohammed to the mountain, bring the mountain to Mohammed where we are, they created some of the excitement. People do walks, not because walks air so exciting. I mean, it’s not like you’re going to the, you know, if you if you’ve decided, you’re going to do it, you’re a runner and your you’ve set yourself a personal goal and you’re doing a marathon. There’s a whole big exciting thing, but walks are neat, but people want to be able to congregate. Of course, be a part of a team. Well, that wasn’t possible is here. So they helped create some of that spirit by sending it out. So that was their innovation.

[00:18:04.93] spk_1:
Bunch of a bunch of smaller communities. Instead of one big community of tens of thousands of people coming together, there were 100 25 communities that came together throughout throughout Greater Chicago.

[00:19:21.04] spk_0:
You’re absolutely right. Will be Dana Farber, and Dana Farber does a number of amazing programs. One of their programs is the Jimmy Fund. Dana Farber has this amazing New England charity called The Jimmy Fund. There is called the Jimmy Fund Walk. David Dana Farber is a cancer research center, and what is best known about that walk it’s they’re based in Boston is that follows the route of the Boston Marathon. So for years, that was sort of what they lead with the excitement that you were actually going to be able to do the route off the marathon and all of a sudden, impossible can do that. And I think that they’re example. They were also able to have a strong performance. But it taught them a lesson about the importance of changing your messaging to never lose sight of the mission and the stories of the people and the impact that the people who are walking have. And by shifting that model of messaging to their supporters, it stood them in very good stead. And then the third group that we

[00:19:28.00] spk_1:
wait before you move on. So what did they do in place of the walk? Uh,

[00:20:11.04] spk_0:
of it A. And an encouragement to go out and walk on your own. Okay. They also created online ways to get involved and to be a part of, ah, a group program. But this was just a really good lesson in how strategically changing your marketing message makes a huge difference. And sometimes we way. It’s easy to get caught up in sort of the sizzle. And this was going back to the steak, which is the reason why you’re doing this. Yes, it’s very cool to be on the marathon route when you’re doing this to help save kids and others. We’ve got cancer

[00:20:17.08] spk_1:
back to the why? Why?

[00:22:26.34] spk_0:
Why? You sound like Simon cynic. And then the third group that we’re going Thio. Yeah, well, I’m a big admirer to the third one is, uh, the Terry Fox Foundation, which I don’t I imagine that many of your most of your listeners Air American in Canada. The Terry Fox Foundation is very well known. Terry Fox was a young man. I think this was back in the eighties, perhaps where who had cancer and he lost one of his legs. It was amputated and he decided to fight cancer to raise money by running across Canada. Very, very dramatic. Um, and he passed away, and they created this Terry Fox Foundation, which holds numerous walks and runs all across Canada. Once again, they went from a group that does almost 1000 events. Ah, year to one that couldn’t hold any in person. And there’s is an example. We’re really honoring them for having the guts to complete what they had it planned. Terry Fox. An amazing organization. One of the largest peer to peer fundraisers in Canada, but also a very traditional organization. And frankly, and they have said to us not as digitized and in their approach to doing business as most other leading nonprofits were. And they had made a decision in the previous year to make a major pushing how they acted and in reaching out to their supporters via digital means and raising money digitally of doing all of that in a very new and much more modern way. And many organizations with all of the change that was coming down the pike as the pandemic swept through the industry, would have said, Oh my gosh, this is not the year to do a major all overhaul of all of our systems. And instead the Terry Fox folks said, You know what? Let’s stick to the course. Let’s do this They did. It was very successful and all the more helpful to have that digital communication and fundraising in a time when you can’t get together and they recruit about forgetting the exact number. But this sort of like seven of the $8 million that they would have raised, they raised a large percentage of the money that they would have raised

[00:23:04.84] spk_1:
a profile encourage for doing something audacious, right at a time when a lot of organizations might not have, but they saw the need. Yeah, great. And they seized it. Absolutely. So let’s zoom. Let’s look forward then. So, though Well, those three organizations gonna be honored right at the march. You gotta You gotta March conference coming up. The people could find find out about the conference where

[00:23:28.24] spk_0:
they will go to peer to peer forum dot com. And they will find out about this event that we’re holding Thea er Noon, Eastern time, March 1st, 2nd and 3rd with a great love or information on overview off the field as well as very this very specifics off. If you do walks or if you are a hospital or if you do cycling events, there are special breakout sessions for all of those and more.

[00:26:07.97] spk_1:
It’s time for tony steak, too. We’ve calmed down Well, maybe I should say I’ve calmed down to events, seemed to have turned down the national temperature or at least turn down my temperature. Maybe I’m extrapolating from myself for everybody. Maybe that’s unfair. Although I am the center of the universe, we know that non profit radio is here with me non profit radio and I are the center of the universe. So maybe I’m not being unfair, but so maybe it’s more what I’m feeling. These two, these two things these two events seem to have have calmed me, and maybe they have calmed the nation. Donald Trump silenced on Twitter and the inauguration. I’m getting fewer news alerts. I’m not looking at my phone as much. I don’t feel sort of, like, agitated on and compelled to investigate headlines like I did before those two events. Um, so again, like I’ve said three times already, uh, maybe it’s just me. So maybe this is a little therapy session. No, I don’t I don’t mean non profit radio would be therapy. If it is, I’m in a lot of trouble. I’m not getting my money’s worth. I I feel I feel a difference. I feel a difference in the in in Communist and increased Communists and decreased agitation. And maybe that’s the national temperature as well. I’m not sure, but I’m sharing with you what I’m feeling since those two things. And that is Tony’s Take two. Now let us return to peer to peer for 2021 with David Hezekiel. Let’s look forward then David has skill. What do you think 2021 is looking like you had some piece in Forbes that makes some predictions from powerhouse people in peer to peer. Lots of lots of, uh, liberation there. Powerhouses in peer to peer productivity and and and And what? Pastrami, pastrami and prodigious nous. So what do your engagement is one thing e talking about? I

[00:26:12.65] spk_0:
wish, tony that your listeners could see a visual right now because you can see that I’ve got a large crystal wall that I am looking into peering into because this is where I get most of my forecasts and predictions. But believe me,

[00:26:36.60] spk_1:
yeah, well, know that Forbes piece was based on lots of other people like non profit radio. I’m not I’m not the expert here. I’m just a bulletin board that you post things on my forehead. And then I put them out for our listeners Thio to pick up on.

[00:26:48.80] spk_0:
Yes, I didn’t put any of my predictions, but I will tell you that it was fascinating to dio to do this, so I don’t know what when this airs. Uh, but

[00:27:00.08] spk_1:
there the week of January 25th

[00:27:48.14] spk_0:
next week. Monday uh, I literally just stepped away from I work in the home office. I guess we all are sort of working in home offices now. And I just watched the inauguration. Yes, very touching. Ah, nde There was no, uh no messing around. No gilding the lily. There’s tough times ahead. And the, you know, vaccination program seems to be absolutely key to really being able to unleash the economic power off all sorts of activity. And this area is is no different because

[00:28:00.44] spk_1:
all the more actually Z originated has run, walk, ride. So you made very clear there is still an important in real life component to peer to peer fundraising.

[00:30:15.20] spk_0:
So when we get to the some of those prognostications in the past But we did a survey some months ago asking people what were they thinking was going to be the shape of their programs next year. The overwhelming majority were saying, Well, we’re hoping that we will have what what what have become the term has has become hybrid programs. They would like to have physical programs, but especially for the spring. I mean, you know, we’re coming up against the big traditionally many programs started in March in the warmer climes were very big in April and May, and the vaccination roll out is just not happening that fast. Eso uh there is the feeling that there may be the opportunity to not re constitute as okay, we’re gonna have 5000 people gathered together to do a major walk. But we may be able to say, Okay, well, certain of you, this will continue to be a virtual experience. But we also have an element of this where we’re perhaps organized much smaller experience, socially distant experience. Maybe you need to reach a certain level of fundraising and then you can come to a gathering that those combinations are called hybrids. And I think there’s going to be, ah, huge amount of that also because one of the thio, almost a person when I talked to speak people in this field to say the most maddening aspect of what’s going on is it’s so hard to plan because we just don’t know when the all clear will be sounded and we can go back to living is normal. So if you plan for ah hybrid with the realization that if things get better it could be more physical. And if things go to heck, it could be mawr or completely Virtual is the posture that most are taking. There’s some hope. One of the people that we interviewed was Jennifer Lee leads the peer to peer effort at the National and s Society, one of the major peer to peer fundraising America. And she is guardedly guardedly optimistic that in the fall there will be much more of a physical presence in these programs. Um, so that is one

[00:30:36.42] spk_1:
your hybrid and and hybrid, and I just built into that is, be flexible.

[00:32:39.94] spk_0:
Yes, The second thing that comes loud and clear is that virtual if your idea of virtual is just saying, well, we really can’t do anything, so just give that ain’t gonna cut it e mean there were certain that’s really just like asking for donation, which, of course, all of these groups do in spades. But if it’s a peer to peer program, it’s a very difficult thing to get a lot of people enthusiastic if there’s no there there. So a lot of investment needs to be made in making virtual, uh, in some way inspiring enabling groups to come together to have that feeling of community giving them props that bring the thing toe life such as we talked about with the L s associations. Example. Um, yeah. On then, we have a wonderful contributor who will be speaking at this This year’s conference. Nicole Dolan works for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. And she said one of the lessons she learned along the way and that they are working on very hard is you need to give people, uh, concrete things that they need to do. Give them assignments, sign up for this email, Come to this meeting, uh, post on social media. You know, be a part of what’s going on because your best supporters will react to that. And it’s much more fulfilling for them to actually get involved. Then if you just sort of give them a blanket. Okay, well, you know, go off and figure it out. That will not work. So are you.

[00:33:57.14] spk_1:
Are you, uh I’m having a deja vu moment right now. I’ve dreamed about you. Are you related? Do you have any? Yeah. Connection to Minnesota? No. Why? Well, I don’t know. Because of what I’m asking because of my deja vu experience. There was something related to Minnesota in in the dream that I had when you and I were talking. Uh, all right. I was hoping you could validate my dream, but all right, there was some There was some connection with Minnesota. And you in our conversation, maybe was just asking. I’ve been on the secretary. Alright. But I am. I am. It’s over now. It’s over now, so I don’t know where we’re headed. I can’t say, um the so I mean, the other advantage Thio keeping that virtual engagement is that you can you can bring in those folks that joined you in 2020 who could not have joined you in a real life event. So you don’t wanna You don’t want to just kind of, I guess, you know, move them to a strict campaign, you know, digital giving platform or or or channel, I should say, when their their initial engagement was around an event. So if you if you keep the hybrid and you stay flexible and you you work on engagement like you’re describing, um you can keep those people involved in a in an event fashion even though there may be hundreds of miles away from you.

[00:37:38.77] spk_0:
Yes, well, I think that the higher level, more sophisticated incarnation of this type of activity has always said that you work at segmenting. You don’t treat everybody as equal where all God’s Children and when you treat them all well. But your top 20% for example, of fundraisers. That’s where you know there’s sort of an 80 20 rule. They will raise the overwhelming majority of your funds, and you should be giving them a lot of attention. There’s a lot of people in the walk world, especially who come who show up where your T shirt to eat a banana, but actually don’t raise any money. And they feel like, Well, it’s a community activity and we wanna be involved were not fundraisers, Um similarly Paul Purty of the American Cancer Society, who is also speaking at our conference. He makes the point that he’s done a huge amount of experimentation and trying different virtual approaches, and one of their lessons is really think about this as an on boarding ramp for finding people who are passionate about your cause, and then you do the segmentation necessary to figure out how to keep them involved, perhaps in a virtual way, or whether they are good candidates for trying your physical event. When you can hold that well. Or maybe there will be a supportive of your charity, you know, completely different way. Maybe they could become great volunteers or maybe substantial individual givers. So this whole on boarding and shepherding, stewarding off, peer to peer and seeing it as an on ramp to building your funnel of of supporters is very important. And virtual will never go back to being sort of the very weak excuse of saying, Oh yes, we have a virtual program. But there was really no there there. It was just a way of saying, Well, if you live far away and you wanna be supportive of other people, you could say you’re a virtual walker. Now there are people, and interesting. We had a weapon or the other day featuring people from Good United who also worked with the American Cancer Society and had a wonderful speaker, Dan Thorpe, from there and what they They are using a whole mixture off using Facebook social media advertising to find people who would be interested in a geo particular geographic area at getting involved in a a squat challenge or a individualized walk or run challenge, et cetera, and using the Facebook milieu to get them involved in to get them fundraising. They had tremendous success with that. What they feel that most of those people will have to be will probably be kept involved by reaching out to them again through that social media connection they made. Two. It’s almost It’s a little strong to say this, but it’s almost like a bait and switch. If you try to say Okay, well, you’re a social media. Uh uh, you like to communicate this way. Now we want to take you off of social media and communicate with you via email and have you go to a physical event with a lot of other people, where you have not demonstrated that you necessarily want to do that

[00:37:51.42] spk_1:
radio meet people where they are. It not where you would like them to be and come meet you. Um, squat challenge makes my thighs tremble because I’ve been doing jump squats. It’s only my thighs. Don’t don’t get to accept, you know, just thighs trembling that stops there. Um uh, doing jump squats as part of my homework out.

[00:38:20.61] spk_0:
I’m impressed because I try to do Burpees Oh, my God.

[00:38:47.12] spk_1:
Things. Oh, and then do split, jump squats Those things are rough toward the end toward the end of a set. Oh, are a bunch of reps. I’m more like It’s more like standing on your toes instead of jumping like stand on your toe and squat squat So squat challenges I got a little this. I got a visceral queen. Visceral reaction when mentioned squat challenges

[00:38:48.28] spk_0:
trying not to use any untoward vocabulary again. I don’t want to scare you, tony.

[00:40:30.01] spk_1:
Well, you wouldn’t know my hyper sensitivities. Uh, if that was gonna be the case, we have to wrap up right now. It is a lot. I got more tony go from or much of issues. Time for our last break. Quote. There’s nothing as simple as dot drives. Our executive team meets once per week to sit down and go through our dot drives pipelines. It’s fun to watch them have a healthy dialogue and to see them get excited about their numbers rising toward their goals, you could feel this person’s excitement. You can feel her excitement at witnessing this dot drives has allowed us to take those key relationships and bring them to a deeper level. End quote. That’s Wendy Adams, director of donor engagement at Patrick Henry. Family Service is dot drives Prospect to donor Simplified. Get the free demo for listeners. There’s also a free month. You go to the listener landing page at we’ve got but loads more time for peer to peer for 2021 you got you got also your your thought Leaders in peer to peer had ideas and about not surprising. I mean, we hear this in a lot of a lot of realms. I certainly, uh um in foundation and even corporate fundraising as well. But collaborations be collaborative. Reach out, reach out across your community. Maybe it’s across the country. Be collaborative.

[00:40:43.41] spk_0:
Well, it s so funny that you mentioned that because I literally had a conversation yesterday with with one of the speakers for Thea upcoming conference. And what she was saying is that you know as much as there is, it’s

[00:40:46.61] spk_1:
not funny. David, this is all planned. There’s nothing funny about it. You got coming in. Think I didn’t. You know, You think I didn’t talk to the people you’ve spoken to in the past two weeks to find out about you? This is this. This doesn’t just come together. I’m a little I’m a little offended. I’m a little I’m disappointed. More than offended. Go ahead.

[00:42:18.70] spk_0:
Looking for the silver linings? One of the things that she had been particularly, uh, happy about Waas. That there was a lot of sharing. I mean, although many of us feel zoomed out of our minds, the fact that groups off people who knew each other but worked at different organizations were getting together We’re asking one another’s questions. Um, they were going to some some programming that we created in which there was a lot of sharing has really helped folks get through this very, very difficult, uh, period. So I think that there is collaboration, and for me, it’s such a delight to see, because when I started this group, there was such trepidation that if you went to a conference and you talked about how you held your event sarees, everybody would be taking notes about some sort of secret sauce that you might have and they do that. And then all of a sudden, all of these people who have been raising money for just throwing cancer were suddenly begun to become heart association people because because they did, they did X, y or Z, and

[00:42:21.14] spk_1:
his heart still still cancers ideas. And it’s all zero sum. And if you must be losing

[00:42:38.40] spk_0:
its so much, not zero sum if you’re doing it right, because people do have an affinity, unfortunately, often for your particular cause. And so, uh, this this spirit of collaboration has just been growing and growing and

[00:42:42.67] spk_1:
growing. Can you collaborate with if you’re If you’re in the in this peer to peer world who like who, Who could you be reaching out to?

[00:43:57.40] spk_0:
Well, I think that one thing to do, I think in any field that you’re in is to be looking at other programs, seeing if there’s aspects of what they do that you admire, um, and and being you know, it’s it’s it’s taking that important first step of reaching out to others to find out who they are. One of the things that’s been a wonderful part of what we’ve been able to build is a community. You know, sometimes even figuring out who that person is isn’t easy. When were physically together. Uh, we literally leave a lot of time for networking so people can talk to one another and can share, since we’re so even within our organizations often siloed. But we’re very siloed from other other folks. It’s why, when we produced this upcoming event, we’ve created a lot of opportunities for using breakout functionality to have small group discussions to have actually one on one discussions, because people are hungry for opportunities to talk one on another, and we don’t all need to be inventing the wheel in parallel. There’s a lot of things that we can help each other out with, Uh, that won’t take away from us, but will hopefully make you know. And these people are working towards goals of trying to fight disease, fight hunger. Of course, it is wonderful to see some of this Kumbaya spirit brought to life.

[00:45:15.59] spk_1:
Am I naive if I suggest that when we get back to in real life runs walk, run, run, walk, rides, whatever, whatever form it takes that a bunch of non profits in a community, we’re in a city could get together and host something together so that you know, if if my organization could probably only get 100 or 150 runners and walkers, whatever. But there’s another organization that could get 500 somebody else who could bring 75. And together we could get 2500 or 3000 or 5000 people Thio. And then we could have the synergy of working together with the local police to stop close the streets and they get the park permits, et cetera, and rent the banners that we need and the archways and the sound system. Is that Is that doable?

[00:48:22.57] spk_0:
Yeah, Well, actually, you you you raise a really interesting point and we’re seeing some of that activity already start in different ways. So, for example, in Maryland, there is the Almond Foundation, which is a cancer foundation actually started by the family of Doug Ulman, who is the used to be the head of Live Strong is now head of paella Tonia, which is a tremendous cycling fundraiser that happens in Columbus, Ohio, back in Maryland, the when the pandemic struck the Almond Foundation, which has had a long history of raising money in a number of interesting ways through peer to peer fundraising, decided to create an event, sort of the all of the institutional work that is necessary to create the online presence and the digital fundraising systems, etcetera. And then, uh, opened this to numerous Maryland based charities, and they could have their people plug into this program. And, uh, I don’t don’t totally quote me, but I’m remembering, right there was virtually no cost to the charities to participate, other than to defray the costs that Almond was taking on to create this platform for everybody. They gave a certain percentage back toe, and Ullman wasn’t competing with them to get supporters. So that’s one example. Another example and donor drive was very involved in setting that all up donor drive being a platform company that non profit use to raise funds. Another example. Event 3 60 is a, uh, a production company, primarily very involved with peer to peer fundraising, and they have created something they call the five by five K for good. They piloted this this fall in Denver, and what they did was there a lot of people who are avid runners who want to get out avid supporters of charity. And they created event where you could run over the 24 hour period. Five different five K’s So in Toto, if you did it, yeah, you could run a basically a marathon and they had a number of different charities. It was open to any charity, and again there was. It was sort of free to enter, and then there was a certain percentage that helped defray the cost. So that went on in in Denver this fall. Um, so there There are a number of those, uh, those efforts already underway, and it’s going to be interesting to see, you know, it’s collaboration is great. It usually takes some entity to take a bold first step and sort of create something that others can get involved

[00:48:33.05] spk_1:
with. That’s it. That’s the non profit. You just profiled the non profit radio listeners there, the bold ones you gotta be somebody’s gotta put a stake in the ground and say, Let’s Tze rally around this.

[00:48:44.45] spk_0:
Yeah, and it’s a wonderful way of sharing costs and sharing opportunities that any one might not be able to do by itself,

[00:48:53.81] spk_1:
right? Are you familiar with generosity? Siri’s? Yes. That

[00:48:56.95] spk_0:
was the other one. They actually I

[00:49:09.27] spk_1:
I used Thio. I used Thio. What’s it called? I didn’t I wasn’t their host. I was there. Uh, there M c. I was used to emcee the event. I probably am said I have a dozen in the New York Manhattan.

[00:49:13.60] spk_0:
Other people? Yes, I know them. And I I have not been in touch with them recently. I have a feeling that the pandemic sort of,

[00:49:29.95] spk_1:
uh I wonder because they were strictly e. I mean, they had a fundraising platform, but they were strictly real life events in exactly, also in Philadelphia. And they were trying to go beyond the Northeast. They’re just being just New York and Philadelphia. And

[00:49:34.97] spk_0:
they were attracting numerous numerous charities, uh, to be ableto

[00:49:39.81] spk_1:
Yeah, we have a dozen or so. Yeah, I introduced Steve Buscemi at one because he was really He’s from Brooklyn. So he was a visitor at one. We had somebody. The Brooklyn City Council? Uh, no. The Brooklyn, Brooklyn President, Borough President, President, President, book. That was a different event. Yeah, I did a couple of Manhattan a couple of Brooklyn, so I hope they’re still bound listeners. You could check out generosity Siri’s, because they were. They were looking to go nationwide on there. Pretty ambitious guys. David David, David Lind,

[00:50:11.47] spk_0:
L I N N.

[00:50:13.11] spk_1:
Lynn, David Lynn, right, David and Saul, David and Saul. So I was more in the background. David Lane, right? I hope they’re still doing well. But you could check out generosity. Siri’s Certainly if you’re in the New York or Philly area, because the I know they’ve done events there and I imagine they’re they’re smart and they’ll be coming back in 2021 2022. So

[00:50:31.53] spk_0:
I’m going to reach out to them

[00:50:47.36] spk_1:
generosity. Yeah, I will, too. All right, right. So there’s cause for optimism. Even though we don’t, you know, we got to stay flexible. We don’t know when that, uh, you know, when we’ll be ableto amass thousands of people together. But there are lots of opportunities to go beyond that. As as you describe

[00:51:54.86] spk_0:
20 was a very painful learning year on, you know, again looking for silver linings. Uh, lots of groups learned about things that they could do in less staff, because unfortunately, many groups had to lay off staff, um, quicker than they’ve ever been used to and stretching and using technology in ways that they talked about for a long time. But now that it was a necessity, Ah, lot of them have made some of those investments in technology that will stand them in good stead in the year to come. So I don’t think that this is gonna be a banner year, but I think that the learnings from 2020 will stand us in in better stead to do better in 2021 then hopefully come roaring back in 2022 Because I’ve been trying to figure out tony, you you gotta help me with this. There’s got to be smarter, much smarter guys than I who are figuring out right now and gals, okay, The economy is gonna come back. We’re gonna be able to travel again, et cetera. What are the depressed stocks? And I should be buying right now to make a killing the floodgates open.

[00:52:09.05] spk_1:
You’re asking the wrong guy. First of all, I don’t like guess to put me on the spot. That’s the first thing I’ll get past that. I’m willing to overlook it this time,

[00:52:16.72] spk_0:
but I’ll never do

[00:52:17.71] spk_1:
it. That’s why that’s why it’s been so many years since you’ve been back. I believe I remember distinctly. You did that six years ago. I remember the day I’m pretty sure was November 4th.

[00:52:26.26] spk_0:
It was probably your dream, but Okay,

[00:52:42.95] spk_1:
that was Minnesota. Now, that was strictly that was strictly a Minnesota thing. Yeah, but the other reason you’re aside from that, you know, if you look at my portfolio, you’d see you know, my my mantra is always buy high, sell low. So you don’t want stock advice from May?

[00:52:44.68] spk_0:
Well, I guess the two of us will be working stiffs for quite over because I’ve got a similar profile. But I do think

[00:52:54.03] spk_1:
I need some illicit income. That’s what I need. I need some of that came and came in high double money because I got I got too much of the income and not enough of the capital game.

[00:53:34.55] spk_0:
I think that when you know, as I said before, sort of like the all clearest sounded. There is going to be such a penned up demand to get together with other, has celebrate and to do the good work that people are so dedicated to that they have such an emotional connection with, uh that, you know, hopefully, maybe at the end of 2021 but certainly 2022 should be should should really benefit from that. And so this year, we’re going to be revealing at at our conferences we do every year. What the

[00:53:37.77] spk_1:
enough with Schilling of the conference. Now I’ll let you get away with it for, like, three times I said it. What was that? March?

[00:54:13.14] spk_0:
But we’re going thio and let Ugo available on our site. You don’t have to pay Teoh get it? What is the results of the 2020 study that we dio in terms of the top 30 programs? And that will be a very somber moment because it’s gonna be terrible. The numbers are awful, however, as any good sales person who’s ever had a sales commission plan knows. What you want to do is you want to join up when they’ve had a terrible year, because the next year that you’re working off of a much smaller base, and so any gains that you have are accelerated. So I’m hoping you

[00:54:19.41] spk_1:
go So apply that lesson to your stock market question. And now you’ve got your answer. There you go. I don’t know what to me. I don’t know what the answer is, but, you know, you get back to you, you have to take the next step on your own,

[00:54:30.48] spk_0:
will get together with David Lynn will find him, and he’ll tell us what you think

[00:54:34.80] spk_1:
of it On the microcosmic level. I mean, aren’t you dying? Thio have a dinner with friends

[00:54:39.01] spk_0:
again. Just answered a survey was sort of a fun survey talking about great, you know, kind of kooky things. And but what were the questions was what are you most looking forward to when this is over? And I said going out to dinner with friends?

[00:54:54.29] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. Hour and a half. No masks. Close table for four to

[00:55:00.60] spk_0:
food. Could be awful.

[00:55:04.94] spk_1:
Yeah, Yeah, we have to go to one of the remaining few remaining restaurants that that survived this thing. All right, Thank you very much. David. David has Shaquille. He’s got a bunch of shell companies one step ahead of the law trying. Tony, did I mention that

[00:55:18.62] spk_0:
the peer to peer forum is uh, march 1st through third.

[00:55:53.34] spk_1:
I’m not gonna say it now, So if you want, that’s a peer to peer forum dot com. If you want to do it on the business side, you’re more interested in partnering with businesses. Um, there’s engaged for good. They also have a conference engaged for good dot com and David is at Dave, not David. He goes by David. But I guess David David, David Cause must have been taken by some near do well considers himself important in the in the cause giving world. So he’s at Dave cause David has skill. Thank you very much. Real pleasure.

[00:55:56.14] spk_0:
Same here, tony. Anytime. Let’s not let five years go by until the next time.

[00:57:03.63] spk_1:
Well, you slipped up again this time by by putting me on the spot, which I said, I don’t like. So I will talk to you in 2028. Very good. Alright, David, Thank you. Next week, maybe it’s Kivi LaRue Miller. If not, she’ll be on soon. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you, find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives Prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and the free month Our creative producer is Prayer Meyerhoff shows social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our web guy, and this music is by Scots. Tony, Thank you for that information. Scotty. You with me next week for non profit radio. You better be big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for July 6, 2018: Peer-To-Peer Peek & Poverty Porn

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Noah Barnett & Kenny Kane: Peer-To-Peer Peek
Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference shares an overview of community-driven fundraising. How do you plan for, inspire and activate your supporters? They’re Noah Barnett from CauseVox and Kenny Kane with Testicular Cancer Foundation.



Amy Sample Ward: Poverty Porn
Amy Sample Ward returns to discuss the issues around graphic images and descriptions of poverty. How can you avoid the porn trap and white savior stereotyping, while telling compelling stories and advocating effectively? She’s our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN).


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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into righteous, sardonic ous if you expected me to smile when you say you missed today’s show peer-to-peer peak, our panel from the non-profit technology conference shares an overview of community driven fund-raising how do you plan for inspire and activate your supporters? They’re noah barnett from causevox and kenny kane with testicular cancer foundation and poverty porn. Amy sample ward returns to discuss the issues around graphic images and descriptions of poverty. How can you avoid the porn trap and white savior stereotyping while telling compelling stories and advocating effectively she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of the non-profit technology network, and ten tony take two a big lump of thanks responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by telling by telus turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream, tony dahna em a slash tony tell us, here are noah barnett and kenny. Kane from the non-profit technology conference welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference hashtag is eighteen ntc where the convention center in new orleans, louisiana. This interview, like all our ntcdinosaur views, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits i guess now are noah barnett and candy cane. Noah is head of marketing for causevox and candy cane is, you know, the testicular cancer foundation. Gentlemen, welcome. Thanks for having us, this’s. Great talent. Yeah. No it’s. Great. Not that in ten things. Not great. It’s. Exceptional. Yeah. It’s. Exceptional. Thank you. And ten. Thank you. All right. Your workshop topic is community driven. Fund-raising how do you use peer-to-peer to cultivate dahna relationships and reach new donors? That sound familiar? Yeah, absolutely. We just wrapped up our session. We’re already done. Yeah, we’re all done outside. Yes. Yeah, we’re on the downswing. So this’s the after party’s victory last put both put it well, community driven fund-raising let’s, start with you, let’s. Start close to know what’s what’s not being done quite right. That non-profits could do better. Yeah, so i think what’s interesting is we’ve gone through a few shifts in fund-raising we went through this idea of there was, like, localized fund-raising back in the day, and then we went to mass fund-raising where we basically didn’t differentiate any of our appeals, we sent all that out. And now today, like, i think there’s a fundamental shift where we’ve moved into what we call the connected economy, where the lines between digital and offline are starting to blur, and that requires a shift in how we approach fund-raising and we see kind of a playbook for the connected economy is community driven. Fund-raising okay, b i like the way you you sort of set this up for us the lines between online and the physical world and our real life are blurring indeed, yeah, okay, so we’re bringing these things together? Yes, okay. Peer-to-peer community driven. Okay, yeah, we’re calling it the connected economy because we’re just connected to anybody anywhere, at any time, through technology and our lives are more connect xero never. So why shouldn’t our causes b similarly should should we be similarly connected to our cause is exactly through our community. Exactly. Okay, kenny, anything you want to add? To the start up? Yeah, i would just say that you know what? The testicular cancer foundation were really big on storytelling and creating compelling stories that resonate with our audience? Not only, you know, as someone who’s been through it as a caregiver myself, but, you know, we try to put ourselves on the other end of the computer screen or the phone. What have you where these stories will compel people to act compel people to donate compel people that take action? Okay, let’s, stay with you. You’re right, your description says and in fact, in bold face, your description says that you will share with us exactly how to do this. How did so where where should we start? Where we’ve been, you know, everybody sees peer-to-peer well, let me take a step back, my ok to synonymous eyes peer-to-peer and community fund-raising or you guys drawing a distinction between those two? Yeah, we’re definitely drawing in this sham. Please set. Educate me. Yeah, so i think what’s interesting is community driven fund-raising is what we’re calling the umbrella that lays over all the various aspects of fund-raising where your community of supporters are actually the key. Driver of success in the campaigns here, it appears your war is a tactic inside of that larger exactly and so in community driven fund-raising there’s kind of a scale of the different types of things that qualify as that that moves from organization led meaning, like the organization is starting a campaign like e-giving tuesday campaign, a crowdfunding campaign, an annual campaign all the way down to supporter initiated, which could be i’m wanna raise money for cancer. And i’m choosing to do that for the testicular cancer foundation. But i decided, as a supporter to do that, he didn’t created environment for me to do that was organic. Okay, thank you so well. Refrain from making those two synonymous. I’m being too narrow. Choosing one method. One tactic. Okay. All right, exactly how kenny. Where where did wish we get started? We yeah, so appealing. But i don’t know where to get going. Sure. So in this rolling in my last role, which was a broader young adult cancer non-profit called stupid cancer. The same rules apply. So you have people who are affected by cancer? Cancer was huge. Yes. Did you have in north, like millions of kids and engaged around. Um, i know you’re probably right way did pretty well. Yeah, it still exists. They’re still there. Still hammered away at it. He’s going to take a little he’s, one of the co founders of super cancer. Yeah. Ok, so? So the long story short is that my father was diagnosed at age fifty with testicular cancer, which put me on a path towards can frat advocacy in my early twenties. And about two years ago, my friend matt first learn who’s, the founder of testicular cancer foundations and eighty want move from new york latto austin i said, sure. Oh, and i’ve taken over testicular cancer foundation. Okay, but getting back to you know that the same rules apply where we serve people who are in a a disadvantage spot going through cancer. You know, whether it’s a survivor, the patient, the caregiver who is helping the person caregivers often forgot. Yes, characters need to take care of them. So i was here to be coddled and cared for one hundred percent. That was made. Uh, so what we do is we see these people go along a path of being recipients of the mission. Being beneficiaries of the mission, and then they come back, you know, to three years out and, you know, they decide they want either run a marathon or they want to create a cancerversary party cancerversary is a really big milestone where on the, you know, annual date of their diagnosis or when they finish treatment which everyone they choose people will give back, and typically they get back to the non-profit that help them? You know, i think it’s probably similar in all chronic health. I know what i know. An oncologist office where they have a bell, you ring the bell, your final treatment? Yeah, i’ve seen a bell if tina got probable. Yeah. It’s a great milestone, you know, on and i had my own i’m sympathetic to caregivers. I mean, i had some sense of it before this, but during the summer this past last year, summer and in the fall so october, my mom was declining and i was my mom. My dad and i were were caregivers and just watched her, and then she actually died early october of twenty seventeen, so i it was became even more became even more aware of how. You need to take care of yourself. I know. It’s just one component of what testicular cancer is doing. Share the caregivers. You know, i often think that they have to be selfless. Andi, can’t you cannot give up your own life, teo, give another to get to another. You’ll burn out there’s a lot of self care that goes into your caregiver. So when we talk about the community aspect of community and fund-raising, you know, and i’m so let the host tigress i’m sorry. Sorry about that. Sorry about mom. Thank you. Host back-up kottler disgust like, welcome to the show cubine xero all week so community german fund-raising candy cane is goingto yeah, so the same rules apply so people go through this process, they come back and for every person who was perhaps turned away from the person going through this acute episode of, you know, not episode, but a stretch of cancer treatment. What? Not whether somebody wanted to give them food or take them to the doctor’s appointment person kind of turned away community driven fund-raising is a great way to really activate your community of people who wanted to help you and in the past, we have created opportunities for fundraisers to convert into things like travel scholarships to a patient conference. So if you’re this arrive, er, you could fund-raising within your community to raise money for travel reimbursement, so it’s not necessarily scholarship, is a little bit more democratic of a process scholarship can get a little tricky. So this skull, this reimbursement program that we did it stupid cancer actually allowed the people around the person affected to help fund their way to the conference while doing ah e-giving back to charity, getting the tax benefits all that. But it was just a really nice way of recognizing what that person had been through. It’s time for a break pursuant. Their newest paper is the digital donation revolution. You’re online donors have high expectations of you because of the swift transactions that they enjoy at amazon. Zappos, even some banks, the digital giving bar has been raised. How do you get over? Get the digital donation revolution it’s on the listener landing page, tony dot m a slash pursuant radio now back to peer-to-peer peak and then so what’s the broader lesson for our listeners in small and midsize shops. But know anybody? Yeah, i think what’s interesting is community driven fund-raising is just a reframing of how we approach raising money and building awareness for the causes that were advocating for okay, bye, basically recognizing the true value that every person in your non-profits community and as a community of supporters, whether they’re known or unknown supporters of your organization, typically we look at it from just a financial perspective. And so what community room fund-raising says, is that it’s not just about the money, that supporter khun give you its about their influence in the time they can give you a swell? And in the connected economy, the influence that a supporter has is actually more valuable than it’s ever been before, because brands are being kind of blocked out of feeds, whether it’s, facebook, it’s becoming really difficult for non-profits to reach any new people. And so by turning inward and saying, how can we actually empower our supporters by inspiring, activating and rallying them? Latto actually be the fundraisers for organization, ok, how do we get? How do we activate this within our own organization way we need to be thinking through sure, who should be. In the team discussing, i feel like we’ve spent enough time on motivation, what are some steps? How do we get started? I’m interested, but i don’t know how to organize myself. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, i think community german fund-raising is just like a lens on how you approach fund-raising and so i think it’s important to have non-profit leadership buy-in but also a fund-raising team in general and communications because communities and fund-raising is basically saying, we’re going to inspire people in our community becomes supporters rather than guilt them, then we’re going to activate those people that have true potential to become fundraisers and advocates for our cause instead of and we’re not trying to convince people to do that. We’re just activating the potential that’s already, and they’re already exists. Exactly, and they were rallying them together so fundraisers usually see raising money and reaching new donors as their responsibility. Community driven fund-raising says no it’s, actually your job to be a player coach and basically see your community is a valuable asset to helpyou fund-raising help you grow your impact, help you reach new donors, but i’m gonna ask you again. But how do we get? Started? I mean, maybe is that identifying certain people to maybe seed the program. I understand you’re not throughout the life of the pregnant thing, okay, you do something, you do something, but we need some seeds. Yeah, i think what we do is all we always advise people to understand the different stages of community fund-raising and so the first stage is inspiring. And so as you look at your current fund-raising whether it’s an event, whether it’s a male piece, how do you look at that piece and see it from a lens that you’re not trying to convince someone or guilt someone to gives your cause? We’re actually trying to inspire them and because inspiration leads to sharing and action. Okay, so so, yes, we wanted to share exactly. And then inside your current supporters, which is the second stage, which is activation, identifying key supporters that are ready to do something more. And so one of our customers world bicycle relief every time someone donates at that moment of inspiration that they’ve someone’s been inspired to support the cause, they want to provide a next step toe activate them to actually be an advocate or a fundraiser for the cause and so it’s something as simple as that by they implement this new program and they’re just asking new donors if they want to do more and presenting the opportunity. And if you apply the commuter and fund-raising methodology, you could find things across your current fund-raising program where you just shift your mindset to be how it can we make this more community focus rather than organization driven it’s sort of empowering them to indeed, i’m just adding another i mean, you’re talking about no inspiring them so that they share and then they take action. Yep, i guess i’m calling it empowering them and giving them well in power and giving them permission and maybe some tools. Two work with yeah, right, the backdrop is shaking video would be stable, it’s not going to fall, but it shook. I would have to say that, you know, historically, we’ve created fund-raising or maybe you donate twenty dollars, to yourself so that you don’t share this fundraiser with a zero balance the same rules apply to when you’re launching a campaign, you really need the buy-in have trusted ah, folks in your, you know, in your group people that, you know will create a buzz, and you certainly don’t want to launch it on deaf ears, right? Yeah, with xero balance, etcetera. You mentioned storytelling earlier, you seem to make a point of how important that is. How does that help us? I guess at the first stage that noah was describing inspiring the community, i think i think it contextualized is and provides insight into your motivation as a fundraiser. How do we start telling these stories? I want to get into the nitty gritty here, so, you know, obviously we’re up against the algorithm of any given social media platform and, you know, you could do it whether it’s, tio email or through, you know, social post, but really providing, you know, maybe a before and after photo in my case, where people are, you know, going through treatment and they come out with a smile on their face, that’s the best case scenario and just really humanizing it. You know, we talked a lot in our session today about being human throughout the fund-raising process, i think it’s really easy to get kind of technical and robotic about it and just create opportunities. For people that self serving, you know, creative latto fund-raising page and then never to be heard from again. I think. Causevox and, you know, i know. Using causevox. We aim. Tio certainly create opportunities for more than that. So you actually have a relationship with the non-profit as you’re going through the fund-raising fund-raising stages and and finishing the campaign about empowering people tell their own stories so that it doesn’t it’s not coming from the organization, but giving them the option to create a two minute self didio or log on their own power way actually saw this firsthand so and ten is a non-profit who hosts this conference, and what they did was they said, how can we raise money for scholarships so that people could come to this conference for free? Who can afford it? And one of the biggest things they did was they said, you know, we have ten board members that have influence and ability to do this and so let’s empower them to tell the community why ntcdinosaur others to them and fund-raising on our behalf, and so they were able to raise over eighteen thousand dollars, and i just saw the banner over there and there’s, you know, fifty, sixty, seventy different donors that came together to help support that campaign, and all they did was they said, hey, boardmember is ur supporters were goingto activate you to tell your story on our behalf, and they did it with did videos they wrote like testimony is different content, and so they didn’t say one thing to the other again. Theyjust activated those supporters and said, hey, can you share your story with the community and raise money on dh. They were able to do that and there’s people at this conference because of what those board members did in the stories that they told you. Excellent. So so starting capital so we’re activating people that they share a men that they take the act take the action of, of actually beginning fund-raising fund-raising on their own as we’re okay. It’s rise. Where going through this process of empowering, i would have described how you describe it. Do we need to circumscribe it a little bit boundaries around it? For listeners, that might be a little leery of maybe the the power they were transferring too much power. Yeah, we’re powering know it talked a lot about this during the session about giving, you know, the non-profit needs to give up a certain degree of control. You want to talk about that? Yeah. And i think that’s why? The third phase of commuters fund-raising is about rallying, not controlling. And so i think our default is well, how do we control this? How do we do this? How do we do that? I think in the connected economy, all the powers with the customer and it’s on the non-profit to realize that their supporters have more power than they think. And so they can try to control them. Or they can really say hey, let’s, rally this let’s, support this and help drive this forward, and so i think if you jump to taking a control position instead of how do we actually rally people in the right direction? Um, you’re going to miss huge opportunities really activate your community. You know, this reminds me of the fears that non-profits had around facebook. Oh yeah, allowing people to come it’s been going on for years? Yeah, come on their facebook page. I don’t know if we’re going to allow those car. Yeah, we should have opened commenting and posted. Yeah, well, circling back earlier we were talking about, you know, the storytelling aspect and in the cancer world and again in the probably the chronic illness world of non-profits it’s a beautiful thing when you have somebody sharing their story, whether we are sharing on the behalf, which is most of the time when you see in the comments let’s say they have a rare type of brain tumor or something like that they’ve never met or connected with another young adult with cancer, let alone somebody who has their exact same diagnosis toe watch that unfold in the comment section where now these people are going to be able to support one another, the fact that you facilitated that on the non-profit side, i’s, amazing and it’s only going to contribute to the overall strategy of activation and engagement getting people teo really buy into your non-profit buy-in to your mission. And you showed a great example that stupid cancer had a different name before it was stupid cancer, and it was, you know, this moment when they said everyone calls us stupid cancer because that’s the tagline so let’s actually switch. So he convinced the founder of the organization to switch the name to stupid cancer and make the name of the organ kapin line right and kind of say, you know, hey, like, we’re going to give power to this community that wants to be a part of this and that’s when they saw growth from two thousand two hundred fifty thousand like you saw hundreds of thousands dollars being raised because they just again said, hey, we’re not going to control this. We’re not going to, you know, they would correct people be like we’re not the stupid cancer guys where the i got every one of the other name it wasn’t i’m too young for this cancer and it’s very slavic, every word. But they gave up that control. And then they saw, like the mo mentum in the community like flourish. And i think what was interesting is that still progressed. What their mission, ford wass maybe in ways they never expected or never would have done themselves. But it’s still pushed the mission forward. And i think that’s the opportunity that non-profits small, large, medium all have today. And we see it time and time again with our customers at causevox and in parallel, you know, you don’t get to decide what school your audience is. The same sort of thing with fund-raising storytelling. All the concepts were presenting today, it’s all about the audience and did, uh, what about let’s? Talk a little more about building this into your annual fund-raising plan? Okay, okay, uh, what you’re the experts. I have a plan now, and i don’t feel like i’m sufficiently community driven or or at all community community supported what i need to rethink. Well, not just what we’ve already covered. But how do we get this in my plan? Yeah, i think what’s interesting is fundraisers have like the same playbook, and they just think if they do more of it that there’ll be more successful. Andi, i think that’s why the burnout rate for fundraisers is so significant in our industry is because they feel as though there’s one playbook to run, which is more events, more emails, more mail in wartime decides that they have exhausted that playbook organization. W ell, move onto organization, yeah, try again no more, yeah, and i think what’s also thing is it it creates this window shopping experience where you’re always looking at other non-profits and being like man, if i only had what they have, i would be able to solve and what we challenged our people that attend our session is that you really need to look at the challenges and reframed them. And so we said is instead of saying, okay, i need to do more of these things, it’s saying as part of my annual fundraising campaign, whether other things like we can do and what we provide, it was saying, how about we take a look at our community and see if there’s opportunities that we can inspire our community, activate them and rally. Them to actually help raise more money and reach new donors. Okay, that’s part of our annual can i would i would add that, you know, people listen, this interview who were saying, all right, how do i deploy this? You certainly don’t want to cannibalize anything that’s working for you, so if you raise a ton of money in queue for, you know, don’t don’t suddenly pivot and say, all right, i’m going to try to spread that out for the rest of the year, and then suddenly you’re exhausted by q for but there’s a lot of little things you can do through out the year like being more human, connecting with your audience, giving up the control is we’ve, you know, keep reiterating on just being more of a social entity, you know, that’s kind of what it comes down to is is it’s not a one way communication channel? It’s you know, the feedback goes both ways, yeah, yeah, and i think it’s, just even seeing the potential and being able to create the opportunities were actually saying we’re asking for more things than money, so a quick story i spent six years running growth at an international relief non-profit and i was overseeing growth, but that was communications and development, and so our major gift officers, obviously we’re hard core, like, go after money, cultivate new gifts year over year, and when i told them when i oversaw them was like there’s, other opportunities for these major donors to make a difference, their influence and their time are really valuable, you know, major donors know a lot of other major donors, and so we continually go back and say, the only thing we want from you is your money. We’re only going to get a portion of their value and so weak went to them and said, hey, you know, would you want to do something interesting by, like, leveraging your major gift to run a matching gift campaign? Or do you want to do a employee engagement campaign at your non-profit or do you wantto basically go into the business network that you’re a part of and share this opportunity, teo promote and inspire other people to support the cause? And what we saw is that the more that we got them to invest, their influence and their time, the more money they like. Well, how do you make those ass? You just picked off like three things? How do you make? So i think in the major gifts side, obviously, you know, it involves, like face-to-face conversations and having a conversation and providing examples of what other individuals but that’s, what people do you wantto do this campaign or, you know, activate matching gift? So what do you make those asks? You want to do your own work? Place campaign? Yeah, so i think obviously in major gifts, it’s different because you have a personalized contextual relationship with that individual. And so if you know that they’re a ceo of a company, you can have a dialogue about that and say, you know, how are you engaging your employees to give back as a community, you obviously care and see your legacy as giving gifts into our organization. How is your company doing? And so it’s having a conversation around that, i think in the broader sense where you’re asking a broader audience to do fund-raising is again making sure that you’re not asking everybody and just being like, hey, this is a new way that you can give to our information are give to our organization rather looking for segments of your audience that are ready to do something, whether that means they’re new donors, they’re volunteers, their board members, they’ve been giving monthly for ten years looking for signals that they have the potential to do something and that’s why we say that second phase is about activation because that means they already have the ability to do it. You’re just activating that, and so it can’t just be this broad sweeping thing where it’s like hey, now you can raise money on x y and z on behalf of our cause. That’s not gonna work. You just ticked off a bunch of very good identify irs indeed you are. Whom i who this might be appropriate for kenny, i want to go back to something that you said earlier. The feedback has to be both ways yet not organization too. Everybody correct this so that involved really listening on the organization’s it’s hard. Sometimes you don’t hear things. I mean, you might not. You’re not always gonna hear things you want to hear. Talk about. You know how how an organization khun sort of shift culture in terms of real listening, engagement that way i think i think you guys were just talking about some really important, which is the signals, you know, in a non-profits situation have a lot of people who will come to the table and, you know, people have ideas, people have always do this, you should do that. And, you know, one of the things that we always say is if you don’t pay attention to mission, eh, you know, mission b, c and d, whatever we’ll all fail. So listening is important, you know, for us, the example of changing the name of the organization was kind of a really big undertaking. When you look back at it, i think that you just have to have a qualifying process, you know, kind of ah, multiphase approach to letting feed back into the top and looking at the person who is suggesting it, and kind of like i said, creating a rubric to take me back in and, you know, you have a border directors for a reason. So if the board is providing you with information, obviously it’s probably a good thing that listen to but also people who were out of the core. Of the apple can sometimes ride the most meaningful feedback and again trying to figure you gotta be you gotta be ready to hear that, you know, not only not only listening to your board and also where they’re coming from, what is their motivation for providing this feedback? And if i can have two things that what we did at my non-profit is first and foremost we had to convince the organization that the donors in our supporters actually mattered so much of our head was like, we’re doing great work, and we just need people to give us money. And so what we did was every week we had an hour designated, so we got leadership buy-in where everybody in the organization wrote thank you notes to donors, and so that started to say, hey, we’re going to center on this, and then we started doing what? Like surveying or net promoter scorer type things where we asked, hey, you know, would you recommend our organisation to a friends, family or colleagues? If so, why? Why do you support our organization? And we actually started using their responses in our fund-raising copy because they were telling us why. They support our organization in a way that was specific that we could actually share with others, and they also told us ideas on how we could improve, and so i think the person foremost is you have to cultivate that idea that you’re actually gonna listen because you value that person’s opinion, and second is you just have to ask, i think we asked for money all the time, but we don’t ask for what people think or why they support our organization or how could we improve this organization? How could we reach new people? We asked that question to a small segment of donors. They gave us tons of ideas that we were able to filter throughout our organization. Good dahna we’re going to leave it there, gentlemen, thank you very much. Thank you for having us. You’re not on the you’re not watching the video. They’re both redheads on thei r noah barnett, head of marketing for causevox and can he came ceo of the testicular cancer foundation and cofounder of stupid cancer? And so i have that right way. Three a curveball and you just handled it. It’s amazing. Oh, yeah. Thank you. You get to use overviewing ingratiate something alright, way where he’s trying to get in by the back i’ve been listening sarrantonio twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ninety see this interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with us. We need to take a break, wagner cps in the last two weeks, we had segments on storytelling. You don’t want your storytelling to be so compelling that it leads to restricted gif ts or even or just lots of restricted gif ts regular has you covered their block post is avoiding restrictions from donations inspired by storytelling it’s that wagner cps dot com click resource is then blawg in a moment. It’s poverty porn right now! Time for tony’s take two i have a big lump of listener thank you it’s not segregated it’s not discriminated against by whose name listed first or second or third. And, of course, any discrimination on non-profit radio is benign non video ce discrimination anyway, but we’re not doing that this this week. I am just grateful to everyone who listens to the show supports the show exultant and that i don’t care what platform you listen. What time of day, whether your digital or analog, however, you are listening to the show or supporting the show. Thank you. You make maybe ah, you’re just you’d listen occasionally and you get my insider alerts. So you know who the guests are each week you cherry pick that’s. Fabulous. Take it as you need it. Thank you. To everyone who listens and supports non-profit radio. My video gratitude is that tony martignetti dot com now, let’s, bring in any sample ward. She is our social media contributor and ceo of and ten, the non-profit technology network. Our most recent car, third book is social change. Anytime. Everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s at amy, sample ward, dot or ge and at a m e r s ward. Welcome back, amy. Sample word. Hi. Thank you for having me back. It’s. My pleasure to have you back. This is, uh uh. This is the have you been back on the show since and ten since auntie si thie ntc. I don’t think this might be the first time i think it is. I’m pretty sure because i was leaving you alone. Because i figured, you know, there’s clean up to do and thank you’s to sand and lots of stuff. So, um, and then you had a staff planning. Then you have your staff planning time. Yeah. So to two times a year. All of the staff. Because not everyone is here in the portland office. Let me have some remote dafs. Everybody comes to portland for a week together of planning and craft and happy hour and things like that. Wonderful. Yes. I think they call it staff planning, but planning is not all that we dio excellent. Nor should it be, because you’re all together only twice a year. So you have many vulture virtual employees, so congratulations on a wonderful and fun. And i hope from your perspective, successful certainly was for mine. Ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, i think it was a really good year. You think so? Too good. Yeah. I’m good. I’m definitely fun. I know it was fun. I know that’s. Not a question, but we’re doing it for a little more off. Just the fun purpose fundez one is up, there fundez up there, but education and technology, you know. They rank, too, but congratulations, thank you for being part of it again. Thank you. It was my pleasure. We gotta lot. We got thirty interviews for non-profit. Yeah, great, no, thank you. Okay, so we’re talking today about poverty porn. You said this had come up for you in aa, some discussions or members have been raising it. You’ve you’ve been hearing ah, little more chatter about this. Yeah, i think that organizations are organizations have been criticized for participating in poverty porn for years, but i think those have often been organizations that are really, really big operating on an international scale global scale that are maybe more vulnerable to criticism, because so so many people are saying what they’re doing, and they’re raising so much money. And, you know, with all of that kind of spotlight and revenue, i think naturally organizations, regardless of what they dio, are open to criticism of lots of different forms, right? But now i think organizations, they’re starting to see yes, well, you know, maybe criticize those organizations for years, but also maybe we’re a part of that. And what does that mean for us? You know, you don’t just have to be really, really large organization are making lots and lots of revenue off of a single appeal to have some issues with the way your year doing your work, so i think it’s organizations are starting to see that there, maybe starting to ask more questions because they’re getting, you know, the the digital teams who are managing that content are starting to feel like if something does happen, you know, they’re the ones that posted that photo or sent that tweet or whatever and really wanting to figure out how how to navigate what what’s the best way to tell this story? Yeah, andan avoid a potential backlash. Yeah, um, how would you define this? Do you? Ah, i have a way, but i’m going to hear, you know, how would you define poverty porn? I got i don’t have probably an eloquent, succinct definition, but if i was explaining poverty porn, teo an organization i think you know, without knowing whoever we’re talking to what their mission is, you know, poverty point is when you’re who’s may be taking advantage of the difference between the audience you’re calling tau action most often it’s for donations and these people that you are serving in whatever way, instead of maintaining the humanity of everyone involved in that situation and honoring all that all of those people have and really owning the story. About what you do in the power of in this example, their donation, versace trying to exacerbate the difference and the things that are, quote unquote not had about this group that you’re serving and focusing on that discrepancy, i think to me and is really what it’s about you you’re not maintaining everyone’s humanity and then highlighting the service, you provide your instead, maybe kind of further opening divide and most of the backlashes that i’ve seen or, you know, examples of this on the on the web are our images, but could be written off as easy as you can see, right majority video, but a written description could also be oh, totally exploitative or, you know, you have the language that we use to describe communities we could also highlight that that gap that you’re describing, yeah, um, no it’s ah it’s it’s very sensitive, you know, because we are trying to do very good work and we are motivated and our mission statements are or are around help of this vulnerable population, whatever it might be, whatever country it might be. I mean, it’s not a lot of the lot of the images are from abroad. I mean, i see a lot of, like, south america, central america, africa, but it could, you know, it could be right here in the u s to i mean, you could certainly go astray with images and written descriptions of conditions right here, right here in the u s certainly right, but, you know, so where were motivated by the right? Um, in the right directions, but right, but we, uh, you know, it may just be is easy, if, you know, consciousness raising, which is what our conversation hopefully is doing, and certainly a lot of the conversation, you know, like i saw things back too, like twenty, thirteen or so talking about this subject. So i think a lot of it because our motivations are, you know, i always impute good motivations toe non-profits and most people no, there are good, you know, it’s just raising country business. I mean, i think that is there are lots of tactical things that we could talk. Yeah, you’re right, it’s not just, you know, you’re right your underlying the thing that’s really going to create change is that organizations and the individuals in those organizations actually do some, really hard work two to figure out an address and accepts and try and move forward from all the biases that they’re bringing to their work the again, even if their motivation, their intent internally, is field pure and good to them, it could still be coming from a really kind of dangerous place that they are the savior of that community, right? And that in itself isn’t is a bias that’s going to mean you? You cannot create content, whether that’s, you know, photos are writing these descriptions that not coming from that place, right? So i think doing that internal work to say, gosh, how are we, you know, without explicitly like deciding to do this, how are we already coming at this from not the best a place you know, and as an organization, whatever the practices or policies that we have that can help us change that? I mean, you know, if we want to start at the big picture level, don’t think about tactics, things like do every single one of your staff regularly have opportunities to interact with the community members you serve if they don’t, they’re not in a position to speak from a place where they understand the shared humanity, they understand that everyone both inside the organization and those being served all have strengths and weaknesses and hopes and dreams and challenges and are at a place to really, i think, talk about the work anymore, productive way, you know. So even just at that level are you creating opportunities for every single one of your staff to be a part of the community? I think i’m always surprised how many organizations where they say, oh, no, if you work in the office, you don’t ever talk to the community, only our program staff do that. Why would you do that? You know, why would you create this while the silo between the staff talking about the work stopped deciding how the work is going to be done and the people participating in that work? That doesn’t make any sense to me? And those opportunities need to be more than photo opportunities do no the right there’s, lots of examples, you know, it has to be meaningful, you know, there’s one of the iconic ones, i guess infamous one’s better better than iconic. What if this one’s is, you know, eyes ellen. Too generous in nairobi with lots of kids around her and, um, there’s one of each year in wearing the red nose with liberian children around him. I know so. And what i mean, i think it’s really smart to bring that up, eh? Because now people now everybody listening to our conversation, i can think of the same kind of image, but also that i think totally the kind of thing that organizations i would think to dio with staff, right is like, okay, here, the folks that we serve here’s some of quote unquote us let’s take a photo together and inevitably, these photos like the two you just suggested when you’re years ago, like ellen and nairobi or add in liberia it’s like here is this person in the center of all these other people, and you are both figuratively and literally centering yourselves instead of centering your community. This is now not a photo about those people. This is a photo about you on dh that is kind of the epitome of what we’re talking about here, right? Is that you have come in to save them your services, you’re donations, you or whatever it is. Are literally the center instead of this community truly getting too to be in that place. So i think that’s a really great, like daily kind of check, check and balance for yourself when you’re when you’re looking at two weeks or you’re looking at the way you describe something that you’re looking at, a photo you can just say is this photo centering the people that we’re serving? Or is this photo about us? Um and there are certainly times where photo should be about you, but that doesn’t mean that the photo should be you surrounded by people you served. Maybe then it’s a photo of just your staff at, you know, the conference table looking on something or if you know what i mean it it’s going to be about you make it on ly about you and not you, in contrast to your community. Very good point about figuratively and literally making the individual the center surrounded by the community in need. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. See, that’s why that’s? Why we have you on? Because i looked at the same picture was an idea that did not occur to me. But that’s the brilliance of of aa expert. You know, lots of flecks of expert well, in this case, we have one expert and me, but other other people contributing exper, having experts contribute that’s what i mean, okay, you think about this, you know, it’s value of having multiple multiple opinions and and eyes on something very it was very well said, thank you for that. Altum i was thinking you by where i wasn’t thanking me for what i just said, that that was, obviously, you’re welcome. I always had a defective. I wouldn’t. I would probably not considered an expert perspective, but it is an opinionated one. You bring a lot of insight and used him to the show. Sabat yeah, you know, another part of the problem is that these images, their descriptions, you know, that it’s one dimensional, you know, right? If i’m here or if you swoop in with your donation from the united states that’s going to solve the problem, the child will no longer have empty hands reaching out, you know? And we just have a minute, but weaken, obviously we can keep talking beyond the break. Poverty is multidemensional mean, it includes govern the local community. The local community needs to be empowered, it includes well, and i think thinking about those layers, and we can talk more about this. Those layers of change that need to happen are are important. But also, as we continue to see, the kind of donor base of america change as boomer’s got older and millennials, you know, come into more of the majority in the world of social action that there is also your community. Your audience for this kind of message also knows there are multiple layers and maybe that immediate kind of got reaction of oh, my gosh, this crisis just happened, i want to respond, is there. But if you also, if that’s the hole that you do, you may not be really seen as a sustainable organization undressing all of those layers of change and i think that’s a huge opportunity. No, you’re seeing yourself. Yes, tio. One dimensionally. All right, let’s, take this break. Tell us i have a new tell. Oh, simoni yl for you, quote tell us has allowed my business to support my favorite charity without even feeling the pinch of writing a check. I am donating money every month that i would have spent on credit card processing anyway. Also, their customer service is far better than we’ve ever had. End quote, the businesses you refer are going to love tell us one hundred percent satisfaction among the businesses that you’re among among the business is working with them. Get started with the video at tony dahna em, eh slash tony tello’s. Now, let’s, go back to poverty porn with very insightful example. Ward um, yes, and we were just saying, yeah, it it narrows that the viewers focus to just donate and there’s a lot more that you can do. I mean, and, you know, if we’re talking about bonem poverty and hunger, i mean that that could reach to, you know, advocacy around global climate change policies, which you’re never going to get from these one dimensional ideas. No, and this i mean, i also don’t want to that folks listening now to our conversation up for this idea that every single tweet, every single picture, every single email appeal needs to talk people through. How do you know this action today is connected to this action in this all the way up that’s not what we’re trying to recommend that every single one of those has to include all of that context, but it should always include the context of what really you’re asking for if you are asking for donations for a really immediate need, the donation is still not the actual transaction of those medical supplies. Most likely right? So so at least framing it truly in what it is people are donating. Teo, was there an earthquake? And you’re well, these donations are in part to buy medical equipment and to support those medical teams administering it. Well, that’s also really great story. Who are these medical team? What kind of expertise are they bringing? You know, you don’t just have to focus on transactions because when you do, you make both the donor feel like they’re participating and transaction and the people receiving this support hyre the end of a transaction, i don’t think anyone really means for that i like, you know, back to that good intent, a key intent is not impact, but also even even in this case, i don’t think that’s really what you intend, you know it, so so raise that up and don’t focus on, oh, this is just like your example, before i really like that, you know, now these hands are full does not what happens in here, you know, and so really talkto what is happening and at a a tactical level, you know, there’s, this is opportunity for terrific content. No, you can direct people to interview, and i was talking about fresh content and depth of content there you can tell the story elsewhere, so the tweet is brief. The tweet is briefed, the facebook post, the ad, whatever is brief, but then there’s a link to you know, the back story back-up more to medical in this example who these medical teams are, you haven’t instagram account well, you could do you know instagram stories with either you know, actual quick video interviews update, facebook live there like there’s a ton of rich content you could have when you move to trying to really own what you do and what your story is. Instead of trying to focus on this idea of really, really immediate really, really fast transaction because that’s not the humanity that you want to be representing anyway. Yeah on and and wrapped wrapped up in all this eyes, you know, the idea of that, the important idea that the donations air not sufficient while while they’re necessary and we do need them, they’re not going to solve the problem alone exactly. The bigger context, you know that, and i love your idea, the hero you’re not talked about this a little oaky going well, just you, khun, you can actually then shift the spotlight to some of the work that you’re doing. Like you’re saying, you know, show videos of some of the programs and some of the care that you’re actually giving, you know you can you can shift the lens back to you as the provider, you know, when it’s all in the bigger context, it’s a part of the bigger falik well, i think there’s two things to think about here one is that we talked about before any campaign, whether it’s a fundraising campaign, our advocacy or whatever it’s never gonna have only one ass, of course, every you know, kind of sector best practices. You only have one ascot a time. But once someone takes that action, they have made the donations. They have called their senator. Whatever you need to be ready with another ask because they were just willing to do what you ask them to do. You might as well tell them that to do something else right. So instead of having, you know, here’s eight different things, please do what you want. You give people want and when they do it, you take them to the next step. Then you take them to the next step and you just keep going. And well, from a tactical perspective definitely think about it that way. And from a content perspective, justus you’re recommending i love that get people hooked in and then have them kind of watch the whole thing. Play out right. Continue to see how the work is happening on the other thing to think about, i think, is that there’s a lot to be sad out in the sector right now about how you know there are certain changes in fund-raising that people are more connected to topic than necessarily a single organization that that they’re going to donate to over a year over year, you know that they care more about the topic and whoever is maybe doing something good on that topic is who gets their money. This is a great way to keep people actually hooked to your organisation instead of floating between organizations in the same cause because you’re not just getting them to have a single transaction with you because it was immediate and compelling and kind of hyre fast way for them to feel connected, you have then continuing to connect them to you with these with content, of course, but also with those continued actions, ways where they’re getting deeper and deeper into this and feeling like, yeah, i donated but also high, you know, submitted short message for the medical l came to provide to those children and, you know, they’re starting to actually feel like they are a part of your work, which is the whole goal of this instead of feeling like, oh, i feel relieved that i sent my ten dollars, for that organization, and i don’t even know who they were because it was just the organization i saw on facebook, right? So really shifting how you frame all of this is, of course, as we’re talking about today, you know, getting you out of this trap of poverty porn, but it’s also serving you to build rial community with these supporters? Yeah, it’s the how many guests we’ve had on urging the relation a ll over the transactional that’s you you put a lot of depth into it, but you and i have talked about it and other guests as well. That’s the way to stand out, you know, as you said, that’s, the way to bring people to your cause and keep them there while the ah a lot of a lot of activists and donors are you’re saying maur, mission oriented versus organization oriented. But you know, if you can draw them into your work, they’re right they will stay with you. It’s the relation act it’s the relationship of course. All right, you know, another another facet of this is that all you know, these regions are not monolithic. You know, all of central america, south america and africa are not poor on dh and needy and destitute, you know, there are thriving cities, there’s, beautiful, rich history, culture toe all of these, you know, to all the african nations and all these other parts i’m talking parts of the world i’m talking about. So, you know, e i think you want some balance there too, tuley and i think there’s argument to be made that there are can definitions that we had organizations we as americans, we as white folks can put onto what is ah, community experiencing property or what is a geographic area, that it lacks access to resources that are not going to be a shared definition by the people living in those communities. And i think that really important thing to remember as organizations trying to highlight the service you’re providing or the way that you’re serving that community, is that your definition of of their needs and comparatively to you you know how how quote unquote in poverty they are is going to feel different in their own lived experience, so finding ways where they can authentically talk about again, back to what was said at the beginning, you know, their hopes and dreams, their challenges, their life and the way that they benefit or appreciate the services is going to feel far truer and position your organization into their community than it is for you to say from the outside, you know, look at this community, we’ve kind of defined as needing this and here’s how we’re going to fix, you know, back to that idea that are you centering you and and the organization are you really centering this community? How how are you doing that? Recognizing that part of deciding you know that a certain community is or is not in need is part of that? We’re gonna leave it there. Any simple word? Excellent. Thank you so much for talking about the tony. I know it’s a a scary topic for some, but i think it was a good conversation. I absolutely agree, and we’re not scared to be a little provocative. No, not at all. Thank you. She’s. Amy sample ward at amy, sample ward, dot or ge? And at amy, r s ward, next week, two more from the non-profit technology conference. See sweet cross talk and capacity call out if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profit ofthis, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com and by telus, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative now, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c geever. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv? Then you’re in for a treat. 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Nonprofit Radio for May 6, 2016: Emotional Intelligence & Peer-to-Peer Tips

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Monisha Kapila: Emotional Intelligence

Monisha Kapila is founder & CEO of ProInspire. She shares why EI is important and underrated. What steps you can take to become more aware of yourself and others, and how awareness will lead you to better working relationships.



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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, meg hoffman in boston, massachusetts she’s at non-profit underscore meg and she tweeted getting ready for the week ahead, listening to tony martignetti on my way to work hashtag in the zone hashtag non-profit hash tag listen, learn do hashtag non-profit excellence meg hashtag thank you for taking hashtag non-profit radio with you. Meg huffman hashtag congratulations on being our listener of the week thanks so much for loving non-profit radio oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown in tow hashimoto’s thyroid itis if you thought i was immune to the idea that you missed today’s show emotional intelligence monisha capella is founder and ceo of proinspire she shares why i is important and underrated what steps you can take to become more aware of yourself and others and how that awareness will lead you to better working relationships and peer-to-peer tips. Mike weapon is chief product strategist for crowdster he’s got lots of ideas to raise more money in your next crowdfunded campaign on tony’s take two you gotta answer planned e-giving questions we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, also by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay for mobile donations. Crowdster dot com i’m very pleased to welcome monisha ca piela she is founder and ceo of proinspire helping individuals and organizations achieve their potential for social impact, she’s worked with the likes of care and the clinton foundation. In january. She was one of the chronicle of philanthropy is forty under forty she’s at monisha ca piela that’s, k p i l a and proinspire is at proinspire dot or ge and at proinspire monisha ca piela welcome to non-profit radio. Thanks, tony it’s a pleasure to have you tell us about proinspire what ura non-profit yourself. What do you what you doing there? Yes. Prospers and non-profit. We’re focused on developing leaders at all levels for the nonprofit sector and we run a number of programs to help non-profits and foundations develop people through recruiting, training, coaching and professional development. And one of those programs is the is managing for success. Yes, managing for success is one. Of our flagship programs, we started it in twenty thirteen. It really came from some things that we had seen around the lack of support for managers in the nonprofit sector there’s a lot of training in leadership development for people on the stage, but there’s a big gap of people are rising in their careers, and we heard from a number of e d s that they felt like this was an area where they wanted to support their rising leaders, but they didn’t have the capacity to do it. So we worked any casey foundation to create a program that focus on the key competencies. Managers need to be successful at managing people on project and built this program around that yeah, you have ah very interesting survey of non-profit managers that says fifty percent feel they lack the skills that they need to be effective. Yes, when we were designing the program, we survey people who had management responsibility in the sector and were really surprised to see how many felt like they weren’t being set up for success and shared some of the areas they felt like they needed most support, including things like delegation gold. Setting managing people and that’s what really shaped the modules that we have in the program? This is a disaster. I think half field there, they’re not adequately skilled for for leading our social change sector. Yeah, you know, i think it’s symptomatic of how most non-profits actually develop people, which is they don’t really have resources to strategically support them. Typically someone is performing well and they’ll be promoted and given more responsibility but not actually get the support they need to do that well. And as a sector, we don’t actually think about management as a responsibility. So it’s not like people are getting evaluated on how well they’re managing other’s, they’re typically getting evaluated on how well they’re fund-raising how they’re running programs. So we haven’t done a very good job of building a culture around managing people or investing the resources to help people do that. Well, yeah, no kidding. I mean, i’m typically a glass half full thinker, but being exactly half empty. And this is, i think, that’s for i think it’s really bad. Uh, it’s agree? I think it was actually kind of scary if you think about how are we ensuring that? Organizations are doing their best work, and that means ensuring that people can reach their potential to do it. So i agree, i think the good news is that a lot of non-profit leaders are starting to recognize it and wanting teo invest more and developing people, and actually, a number of foundations are thinking about what their role is around supporting the sector as well. Well, year was that non-profit managerssurvey that was in twenty thirteen all right, it’s pretty recent in terms of fifty percent think the more recent research has come out from bridge span around what they’re calling the non-profit leadership development deficit really hitting on the same pieces? Yeah, do you know if it’s still equivalent fifty percent saying they didn’t look specifically at this peace? But they looked at what’s happening at the senior levels around succession planning and found a huge gap as faras what percentage of leaders were coming from within organizations versus coming from outside and best management practices that you ideally want toby cultivating leaders from within because they’re most likely to be successful on they found pretty poor numbers from the nonprofit sector overall and a cross eyes of organizations as faras how organizations were doing around developing leaders. We’ve had guests on talking about succession planning and really it’s it’s, a part of risk management. You know, you’re you’re ceo could depart or die, you know, at any moment. And what do you doing to bring people along into that role? Yeah, but risk-alternatives yeah, and i think it’s also at all levels because succession planning is for the ceo is also for the people who are doing fund-raising and programs, and we work with a lot of young leaders who feel like no one’s thinking about what their career path is that if we’re actually doing succession planning well, you’re thinking about that all the way down to the most junior levels of staff car we have just about two minutes before a break so let’s just sort of ah, touch the surface of the the emotional intelligence topic, and then we’ll have plenty of time after this break. What do you what are we talking about? Emotional intelligence? Yeah, so emotional intelligence is part of what we consider managing yourself and emotional intelligence is your ability to recognise and understand emotions both in yourself and those around you it’s different than i. Q so emotion intelligences refer to his e q q is your cognitive intelligence, but we’ve often heard us were kids ondas different than personality, which is your style? I cubine personally don’t change over time. The great thing about you is that it can be learned and developed over. Time and we think it’s really important to people success there’s actually been aa lot of research that shone that ninety percent of top performers have high i q and it’s responsible for almost sixty percent of your job performance. If you think about the work we do in the nonprofit sector, how much of it is people based that having really strong kiku is critical to ensuring that leaders are doing the best bacon? Well, it’s encouraging that your your emotional quotient can change over time, you can improve it. Yes, and part of what we see is actually, people don’t even know what you is, and so by breaking it down, it helps them think about where they’re doing well and where they can grow and put some steps towards that. Yeah, for sure, okay, we’re gonna talk about some of those steps, let’s go out for a break, and when we come back, monisha and i will continue to talk on so talking about emotional intelligence, stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published. Once a month, tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Monisha capella and i talking about emotional intelligence and you’re, you’re too emotional quotient. But it’s emotional caution, right, not emotion, question emotional, okay, otherwise you could have, like, a little rhyme, emotion, kwo, shen emotion to caution. Okay, all right, so this is our is you. Were you saying before the break? This is a very important sixty percent of our success is based on disability, too recognize and and manage emotions for ourselves and recognize them within others. Yeah. Okay. That’s. All right. That’s, that’s substantial. Now, it’s. Too bad we can’t manage the emotions of others. Can we? Can we? Well, i think one of the reasons why it is so important is if you actually understand other’s emotions, it could make you better at managing them. So there’s really four dimensions of emotional intelligence and to those are about awareness, so awareness of yourself, self awareness is being able to understand your own emotions in the moment. And, you know, what are some of your tendency? So knowing when you’re frustrated, angry, and what are some things that typically happen when you are feeling that way? There’s also a social awareness which is able to understand what our other people’s emotions on dh perceiving how they’re thinking and feeling. So those air to the components, which is really about awareness and two components you’re about management. So self management once you actually are aware of your emotions, then how do you manage them? And relationship management is about others. So once you’re aware of other people’s emotions, how do you use that to help manage interaction successfully? So, you know, as you asked, can you manage other people’s emotions? If you’re effective at social awareness and relationship management, you can can actually manage the situation where people’s emotions could come up. Okay? All right, so this awareness is huge. All right? So, it’s, basically, i think i’ll have a quick example could be even be, for example, a team meeting that you’re in and maybe there’s some bad news that’s being discussed, social awareness, taking up on how people are feeling about that, um, and relationship management would be, how are you managing those interactions? Relationship management isn’t just in the meeting, it could be actually before the meeting, if you know there’s someone who’s going teo really take this news in a deep way, actually sitting down with them beforehand so that they’re more prepared for the discussion. So what? We’re essentially talking about being aware of yourself and managing yourself and being aware of others and managing your relationships with others? Exactly, which is why why? It’s such an important part of how people do work because our work is all about ourselves and other people. And that’s why emotional intelligence is seen in such an important factor that now i could see that. You know, anger is a pretty easy one two gauge in myself in me on brothers. I mean, your flesh, your face gets flushed, your heart rate increases you probably your breathing starts getting heavy, so and you can see that in others, but but other other emotions, like empathy or sorrow and, you know you can you can see this in other people. Yeah, you can. I may. I think about sort of five core emotions that people can have. You mentioned anger, some of the other ones air happiness, sadness, being afraid or being ashamed. Those air kind of five key emotions and those air one that knowing in yourself when those air coming up and knowing those and others and there may be a spectrum of what that may look like. But it will help you manage situations better. Good. Interesting awareness is all critical. Now you got any otomi at one thing that research shows only thirty six. Percent of people can identify their emotions as they happen, so angers one that sometimes a physical ways that’s showing up, i can help people identify it, but actually it’s surprising that people really often aren’t in touch with their own emotions. Really. Now i feel okay, i feel like i’m in the thirty six percent, but everybody can’t but everybody, yeah, but everybody feels a bit. Does everybody think they can like one hundred percent think they’re in the thirty six percent? Uh, well, we find a spectrum even when we have people do self assessment around emotional intelligence, i think there’s actually some awareness around people on their gaps around that. So even in the self assessment, people will reveal that there are areas they feel like they’re aren’t doing as well around knowing their emotions or those of others. Okay, all right, so maybe i have a shot of being in the thirty six now, talking about now, managing emotions that’s different that’s, that’s different i’m saying where i think i’m aware, but management no, you have to ask my friends and, uh, and my wife, i think there’ll be much better. Judges, um, do you have any, uh, i need any good little stories about how people who have gone through the program managing for success and ah, you know, have reported back that they handled a situation much better than they feel they would have before they had become aware of their cue and this empathy with others. Yeah, we actually hear back from our love neither emotional intelligence is one of the areas that sticks with them the most, even one to two years after they go through our program. I think part of that is it’s a new concept, so many people haven’t had exposure to it, and they often don’t have time to really refer flecked on emotions and how it impacts on at work. So we hear from alumni that this shows up in a delegation and managing people, for example, someone not meeting expectations or doing work the way they would want one sort of having the self awareness to understand how that’s making them feel, and then also being able to manage themselves around, um, you know, taking time, tio pause before going to have a conversation, um and really preparing for what that might look like so that they’re not showing up in a way that would create some tension with the person that they’re trying to meet with s oh, there is so taken, give yourself a time out. Yeah, i mean, if you think about, like, good tips on self management, they’re things that i often use with my three and five year old so count to ten or pause and breeze are some of the really simple ways that you could manage your emotions, there’s a lot of research even out there that you’ve probably seen like you actually need to sleep well to be better at managing your emotions, um, and making space for time tio problem solved and thinks that you’re not feeling like you’re always running from place to place. We’ll give you more space to actually manage your own emotions. Now, if you’re using this with your three and five year old saying this, this is appropriate in the workplace also. Oh, absolutely, i mean, i think what they’re finding is that emotion, intelligence matters everywhere even schools are introducing this, but in the workplace, there’s been a big movement and the leadership development field to really make emotional intelligence more. Central so we’ve seen a lot of non-profits who are starting to introduce this as a competency for everyone in there, i don’t know is this commentary on the state of non-profit staff, if the same strategies apply for three and five year olds that apply for adult workers in the office, were what telling what you’re telling us? I don’t think it’s unique to non-profits so that’s the one thing i’ll say, we see this across people and eddie sector, um, but i think it is a state of how, as a society, we viewed emotions as kind of historically not something that you talked about at work and now or at school and now really recognizing that it is so into girl to the work we dio um, you know, if you think about when you’re working with teams, um, there’s often a saying what’s the elephant in the room well, in order to diagnose that there’s an elephant, the room, you have to have a social awareness that people are feeling something that they’re not saying so it is important for us to start talking about those things. All right? To what degree, though, now if i’m in a one on one meeting with someone, and they’re feeling let’s not deal with anger, because that seems like a simple one. Shame you mentioned shame is ah, common emotion. Do i mention to them that it looks like you’re feeling shame and remorse over what we’re talking about? Do i express it explicitly or a maior? Is there some other method? Yeah, i think one of the great things you can do as a leader or a manager to help someone, um, increase their own self awareness is actually asking questions, so you could say, you know, i noticed that you seem off or i noticed that, um, in that discussion, you weren’t contributing like you normally d’oh. So i think noticing what’s visible to you and asking them to think about what are some of the emotions that might be underlying that, okay, so get them to try toe, be forthcoming about what, what they’re feeling basically, yeah, and one of the kind of thing that we have been saying, like, you know, what pushes your buttons so that’s, something that we assume in organization that you’re going to know, but typically when something pushes your buttons that’s getting at an emotional issue and so having that trust with your drugs report, tio, help them think about what’s pushing their buttons and then together, how can you problem solve what to do in those situations? Okay, s so let’s, go back to my hypothetical the one on one suppose the person is just not, you know, forthcoming, i mean, they don’t feel like talking about their emotions, they want to keep it factual and what they would call professional just, you know, give me the news that you wanted that you brought me in here to convey, and i really don’t feel like and i don’t know how do you feel like it’s any of your business? What i’m feeling about this conversation, but what do we do there? So i think emotional intelligence and having these conversations workplace do actually try to trust and part of what you want to do is make sure you’re building a trusting relationship with the people who work for you, and they may not feel safe. Teo talk about their emotions and how that’s showing up, so if they’re not ready for it, you obviously don’t want to push it. But you do want to make sure that you’re creating that trust and that safe environment, that you’re there to help them, to think through the challenges and, um and they become or where their emotions think about how you could manage those, you know, i could given example, a colleague of mine was not a call recently with someone that we work with, and it was a fairly challenging conversation. And so afterwards, you know, we sat down and she said, you know, i’d love to talk to you about how i can manage in those situations because i could just feel myself getting really tense by the conversation, and so i appreciate the fact that we had developed this trust that she was aware to notice these emotions, and then we’ve developed trust to actually sit down and think about, well, how can she manage in those situations? And what was your advice around that? How can we? So my advice was to be taken more objective position and those conversations not to feel like she’s being personally attacked if someone’s providing some criticism or feedback, um, and tio kind of go back to this idea well, you served take the feedback, but i know that you want to process it and then follow-up later as a way so that she’s not having teo immediately respond to things that are her emotional triggers. Okay, so that’s like taking a longer time out, give yourself space to let me let me come back to you. Let me let me come back at, you know, let me know. Let me get back to you. I understand what you’re looking for and let me let me come back in whatever you know, a couple days or something with yes. And i have i have a rule of thumb that if i’m feeling matter emotional and writing an e mail not to send it so you wait an hour or wait till the next day to send it and i think that’s a good rule of thumb that time out piece? Yeah. It’s hard. Yeah, i i think we’ve all been there. The emotional email is usually one that you regret or you know, to some varying degrees, but you don’t feel good about it five minutes after you press send. Yeah, so this is really a longer process in your workplace. Is establishing this safety of talking about emotions. It’s not you can’t just spring this on somebody at a, you know, again, my my hypothetical one on one meeting, let’s, let’s talk about how you’re feeling about how you’re feeling about this. I mean, this has to be a safe environment in the office through the long term. Well, and i think a lot of it depends on the relationship between the manager and the person who’s working with them, so building that trust and safety and that you’re really there to set that person up for success. And so, you know, that depends on the culture in the organization, but it also depends on that relationship that the two people have. I keep thinking about the office with first with ricky jove, eh? And then with steve carell, you know, they try so hard to be those touchy feely managers, and, of course, you know, it’s a disaster and it’s a hilarious but s o obviously not an example, teo, to follow their example of what not we’re not. Yeah. Okay. Um okay, so we still have some some time together. Um, you have some good we should wear. Our thing i was going to say, you know, we talked a lot about the awareness side, but i think the other piece around, um, relationship management and that’s, good, but a little, you know, like when you’re working with a direct report, and you’re sensing that they may have some emotions tied to something, um, i think, really, being open and curious, so asking questions, and, um, that kind of trust that can come from taking feedback. So maybe they want to give you feedback. Um, being kind of someone that people see is someone they can go to can have really help on the relationship management side. Yes, okay, so, again, what? Steve carell was aspiring to. He, you know, they wanted people to come to them, but it was always disaster. Okay, i’m sorry. I’m sorry, i’m going back to that. Okay, i i thought it was interesting. Now, so going back, i’m gonna go back to vermont. This thirty six percent people are ableto identify their emotions. All right, so, so sixty four cannot are you able, teo, change this in the managing for success program? Yes. So one of the things that we do in managing for sixty years, we have people take a self assessment to actually sort of rate themselves on these four key components and then develop strategies on what they can do. So the self awareness piece some of the strategies are actually, um, thinking about what pushes your buttons keeping a journal about your emotions also to start kind of seeking feedback, asking other people about things that they may notice when you know, as you mentioned, when you get mad it’s very visible and maybe asking other people, how do they know when you’re feeling mad the way it even area that its most important around knowing your own emotions is actually how do you handle stress? Because that is what oftentimes can be a challenge in the workplace. Ah, and sometimes that might be a physical piece. Look, when you have stress how you handle that so start tio, get in touch with that better let’s let’s look more into listening there’s so much talk about active listening and, you know, empathetic listening, what are your recommendations about being a good listen, er, that is so important around social awareness, so in order to actually help us understand yourself, understand other people’s emotions, a lot of it is listening and it’s listening for what i said, it’s also listening for what’s not said so what might be visible or where, you know, you may be leading a conversation and where no one has anything to say. Well, that’s what’s not being said, and i think by being a really good listener, you’re able to start picking up on those emotions behind what people are saying or not saying this is something that takes practice. I mean, it was hard for me to get away from thinking about my next question while the person was talking and i don’t mean on the show necessarily, but just in life, and i realized that i’m i’m thinking about that instead of focusing on what they’re saying that it takes practice, it does, and one of the things i’ve sort of doing is actually trying to minimize taking notes at meetings, because sometimes you get so caught up in this sort of technical piece of after write down everything and you’re not actually aware of what being talked about, so just reminding herself of, you know, what are the things that you fall back on to that might be limiting your ability to hear other people or toe be in touch with what’s happening? What goes into this journal that you suggested an emotion journal journals are so critical around managing self because we don’t really have time to process a lot of what goes on at work and the ways that you can keep a journal he can have, um, journal, just about your emotions and at the end of every day, reflecting back on where what were some of the emotions you have that day, and how did that show up? It will really increase your awareness of what those our emotions are and and help you start getting better at even, um, going deeper in them. So being able to think about i was angry, was i frustrated? Or was i enraged? What? That might look like, okay, last thing i want to leave us with cause we just have about a minute before we wrap up monisha um, if all this is going to be and well, if we’re going to do all this well, we have to be ableto accept negative feedback? Yes, that is a really important part of getting better at emotional intelligence. Um, is speaking feedback and really welcoming feedback, so that means that when people give you feedback, your first answer should not be a kn explanation of why something happened, but your first answer should just be thank you for the feedback. Ah, that could be a hard thing for people, but i’ve seen for the fellows have gone through our programs that just by changing that view around feedback and something that i want that could help me really can help them, uh, step up their ability to manage their emotions better. Monisha ca piela founder and ceo of proinspire they’re at proinspire dot organ at proinspire and she’s at monisha ca piela monisha thank you so much. Thanks, tony. My pleasure, mike. Weapon and peer-to-peer tips coming up first. Pursuant and crowdster pursuant, they have online tools to help you raise more money. They are ideal for small and midsize shops because you pick on ly the tools that you need for your size and your your donor base velocity is their tool that manages your fund-raising helping you reach goals and stay on time. Time versus goal, prospector, it minds your database for your highest priority potential donors. So you know where to focus your attention. Check them out at pursuing dot com mike weapon he’s here. He’s going to be a guest in a moment. He’s, the chief product strategist for crowdster so i’m going to give mike weapon a chance in that official capacity. What sets crowdster report, mike from other peer-to-peer site. Thank you, tony. Yeah, one of the biggest keys that were really focusing on is the digital wallet on apple pay android pay. How do we think about the future? So you don’t have to that’s where we are, you know, it’s no longer a world where people are pulling out their credit cards and typing it into their phone. No one wants to do that. It’s now there’s so many one touch solutions, you know, we’re putting together a suite of those one touch solution so you can take money anywhere from anyone at any time. Check them out. Crowdster dotcom. Thank you, mike. Weapon now, time for tony’s take two my video this week. You can’t let plant e-giving questions go unanswered. It’s another story from my client baruch college someone inquired about leaving the college in his will. We answered his questions and he added a gift to the college in his will. Simple charitable bequests. What happened at the organizations that didn’t answer his questions, the video and the story at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two now let’s bring mike weapon in for a full conversation. He’s, an award winning digital strategist with over seventeen years, experience crafting online content. He had thirteen years as a digital journalist at cbs news, translating the likes of sixty minutes and cbs evening news into vibrant online stories. They need a digital marketing and awareness for autism speaks he’s now chief product strategist at crowdster mike weapon. Welcome to non-profit radio. Well, thank you for having me appreciate it. My pleasure. You’ve got some ideas around peer-to-peer crowdfunding. Well, just generally before we get into your tips, what is it generally that you feel non-profits aren’t getting right about peer-to-peer well, you know, that’s tough to say not to say that non-profits aren’t really getting it right somewhere, getting it right. The problem is it’s a moving target, what people want to do and how people are krauz co-branding really depends on, you know, you know, it’s, it starts to evan flow of what strategies work, you know, everyone got very excited about ice bucket challenge, and everyone started looking for the next ice bucket challenge, all right? But at some point, you have to decide that ship has sailed. I’d say what you have to do is stay on top of the trends, but also the real key is to is to is to focus on your volunteers and your key constituents, and those people are treat them like family because those that is your family and and listen to them, you know, you’re you’re insiders yeah, yeah, them what they want to do you have some strategies about doing that? Absolutely. Getting them onboarding early, et cetera. Okay, well, i mean, that sort of leads into one of the first ideas you have, which is no as much as you can about your constituents. Yeah, what we need to do there? Yeah, and now we have digital tools that you could do that with, you know, i’m sure most every non-profit larger, small has some sort of an email tool that they’re using a constant contact or something like that, understanding those responses, you know, dig into the analytics on those tools. A lot of people think, well, i get constant contact. I’m just gonna fire off a bunch of e mails, whatever tool you’re using, make sure you become a master of those analytics understand who’s coming back to you and what they’re saying, make sure you’re taking responses from those people and making marks and checks on those people. This these people are my hard core, you know, fundraisers for me, these people are really active at the end of the year, these people love tio attend a walk or or our five k, the annual five k these air my gala people make sure, you know, and you segment those people properly using whatever tools you have and then what? And then and then make sure your marketing something, you’ve got them segmented. Yeah. Then make sure your marketing them appropriately because, you know, you fire off one email, one missed email, right? And that turns into an unsubscribes great of, you know, two or three percent, you’re losing a chunk of people that you could have been marketing teo over the course of a year and year. Ares you know, you have to treat those relationships like gold. So so always guard against the misfire, right? Which is sending someone a mass on an e mail about hey, we need we need you to give right now when you already know that person just gave to you last week. All right? You have to know these things. Know how you’re communicating with all those right, it’s twenty sixteen. We can’t be just sending these yeah, e mails about every program to every person and whether you’re keeping whether your serum is a big, you know, massive sales force back in or whether you’re keeping it on a spreadsheet, how whatever your sizes you know, you have to know your constituents and know how your marketing to them. Okay, okay. On dh. Then how does that feed? Into our peer-to-peer campaign that we’re planning. Yeah, well, so there you have. So the real key is peer-to-peer you have to think about in the long term, so you’ve got people coming back. You have to start with what you did last year with those people, those people who are team captains, you need those team captains to come back that’s going to be your corps for the next year of your peer-to-peer so from last year, you need to have segmented them, flagged them, thie attributes of team captain? Yeah, and no and and treat them right, you know, send them those emails halfway through the year that says, hey, we recognize how much you did, and we want to send you the special award we want to send you, you know anything to recognize those individuals who are your top team team players. And also when you make an example of those people, you encourage others to join in and become those big team captains because there’s naturally going to be attrition. So you need to keep filling that filling that base off constituents feeding that pipeline? Yeah, on dh you mentioned, you know, sending them things. Or whatever. I mean, it doesn’t have to be anything expensive, and it could just be information like insider information. You’re special to us want to let you know that we’re watching a new program hyre two new, you know, hr part, you know, whatever insider information, but it doesn’t have to be expensive or time consuming to treat someone as an insider. Yeah, no, absolutely. And and so i work with a with a non-profit called mobius syndrome foundation. I have a son with moebius syndrome. It’s. An extremely rare condition. We’re talking, you know, maybe ten thousand people around the world that have this condition extremely rare. But it’s a tight knit community. Ah, it’s, a small organization. We just hired our first full time person. Right. So what are the real top people get right is we get a q and a with that with that person, right? You know how they how did they do it? Ah, i’m sorry. A conference call or yeah, but it’s actually, actually, she reached out. She reached out directly because it’s a small organization, you know? And it was that sort of that. That one on one relationship, right? Okay. Of reaching out to keep people in the community the advantage of small non-profits have you can do that one to one contact intimate. I could spend a half an hour getting to know you that large organizations don’t have the luxury of absolutely not even can really must write. You really have to. Ok? Because, you know and there’s, you know. And you have to remember that it’s a gray area between fund-raising an awareness, right? You have to merge those too. You know, if your organization has a big walker, a five k that’s, your big event, that event is not just about raising funds. It’s also about all those groups, all those families and individuals getting together and bonding, you know, it’s an experience, and you have to respect that experience. So that so askew got a q and a with the new development director. Is that right at that? Mobius that moby syndrome? Yeah. That’s. Magnificent. So you just you got an opportunity to talk to her, him or her for one on one? Absolutely. And what she did, which, you know, she reached out. And she knew that at the time i was working at autism speaks on dh. She was you know, she looked at my bio and said, hey, let’s talk what can we do together? Yeah, you know? All right. All right, lots of lessons there. I mean, whatthe small non-profit khun do how to be good to your insiders. Want to one face to face contact? Magnificent. All right, early on your first idea, we’re gonna run out of time. No, no, no. I never shortchanged non-profit radio. Um, you, uh you want to respect the funnel? Don’t get in the way when somebody wants to do something simple and force them somewhere. Yeah, so you know, often when you have the big fund-raising meeting, you know how often you have it at your organization. Chances are, especially if you start to bring in mohr say boardmember zor or top volunteers everyone’s going tohave an idea about how to fund-raising how you want to get people. Ah, how do you want to get people involved and how you can raise money, but remember that there has to be a level of simplicity for your average doner co-branded start to build out those digital tools. And here i’m talking about the digital funnel is make sure that as soon as you have someone committed to a donation, don’t get in the way just allow them to donate, keep your forms a simple as possible. This isn’t a good time to say hey, do you want to donate? Would you also like tio volunteer? Would you also like tio fund-raising you like to build a page at the same time? Just let them donate, get them to that complete that one cycle, then you can start to ask them questions on dh see how, how, how engaged they are, how much they want to be involved with the organization, but once you sort of have offered on action, take that action all the way through now. It’s not just donations also registration if someone wants to register for an event that you’re throwing, let them register, don’t hit them up for a donation mid sent mid mid process. Make sure that it’s laser focused with that single call to action. Now you’ll probably hear that in some other places, but i can’t stress it enough is that when that single call to action, whether it be through an e mail or through your website or through social media followed that was saying, make a single, ask and follow that single called action all the way through, similar to advice that we’ve had guests share on direct mail. The the ideal direct mail is a single purpose. It’s our annual or it’s our gala or it’s a planned e-giving mailing its single purpose. Yeah, absolutely. And this also ties into knowing your knowing your constituents because you, you know, you see what i see, the sort of the fallacy of the of the, uh of the marketing email is often ill. See, hey, you can get involved one of three ways you can either do you can either volunteer, you can register or you could just donate. You know you can’t give those people the option when you know when you know your constituents, you know, who’s has a propensity to give who has a propensity to be a volunteer and who has a propensity to register for that walk no those constituents and give them a single ask. And as you had said earlier, target on dh market to them, appropriately exact based on their history. All right. Ah, the fundraiser life cycle. We won’t say about the book that yeah, so, you know, this is the concept that you this is a long term relationship, you know, you know, i used to say when i was at autism speaks is, you know, we’re not selling soap here, you know, we’re selling, we’re not selling, you know, what we’re doing is we’re getting people to join, we want people to be involved, and this is a mission for us, you know, everything about what we dio has to be tied to the mission. So how are those people going to get involved? I don’t just want them to say, well, here is a donation, and you guys take it and run, and maybe i’ll see you in a couple of years. We want people to join in with the organization and think about how it fits in with their lifestyle. So a cz you get someone so that way, once you get someone into the fold of your organization, then you have set up so that you can allow them to grow inside of it. So ah, one way that we get a lot of constituents to some of the the non-profits we work with it, crowdster is, we start with, um, sororities, fraternities, right young people who are very active, they tend to show up. They tend to do a lot of social media. They hung over when they show up. Well, that’s, why we hold on, dave that’s later in the day, right? Nothing. No eight a m you know it have seven a m five k run that sunday morning, though. Ah, but, you know, get those once you have those people interested in in the in the organization, you know, in four years they’re going to be very different fundraisers for you. So once you get them in and keep them active, they’re showing up, but in four years, they’re going to have a good job and they’re going to be have more propensity to give or they, you know, a little later, they may have the kids and they may want to get their kids involved, you know, treat that donors if they’re going to be with you for a long time. Yeah, it’s just you know, is you have to understand is that you want to build a long term relationship, it’s much easier to keep a donor than thing to get a donor. Oh, for sure, but numerous guests of but i’m glad you grab repeated and it’s funny because they cost so much to acquire. Yeah, and i was thinking about when i was, you know, when i was a kid, my father was part of knights of columbus and they supported the special olympics. You know, we didn’t have any connection with any connection to special olympics, but my father loved sports. We loved watching track and field sports. He brought us a za kid. So that’s, something that i took with me and continue to do that type of giving back to the community to the to the special olympics community in high school is part of my confirmation process. You know, excellent. Eso, right? No personal connection other than your your dad introducing you and it’s just becoming sort of ah, family tradition. Yeah. Yeah. And the special effects is a great organization. As you know, you know of really including full community. You know, the great mission. Cool. Alright, the lifestyle. Yeah. And, you know, we get into psychosocial factors to then you have to recognize that, you know? So we start with the sorority, and then they’ve got a full time job, but maybe less, less time, because they’re in there in a high pressure job so less time. But they’ve got greater capacity to give, and then, as children come, maybe maybe depending on who stays at home, if anybody, maybe that person has a little more time, as could start to go to school. But before school age, they don’t, you know all those psycho social fact, and they may have mohr mohr, time, teo to join in, join in ah, events that are more family rented. Yeah, right, of course, including the family. Yeah, as your dad did with special olympics. Exactly. All right, let’s, go out for a break. We come back, mike, and i’m going to keep talking about his peer-to-peer tips. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that or neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Welcome back. I’m with mike webb in chief product strategist for crowdster and of course crowdster a sponsor happy to have them on the show with with value around your peer-to-peer fund-raising campaigns whether it’s going to be the first one of your next one howto improve these things and raise the money that you need you talk about do-it-yourself fund-raising yeah, yeah, what we call third party fund-raising or do-it-yourself fundraiser way you know, the idea there is that and this this khun lend itself to smaller organizations in particular, the organizations that don’t have sort of a core event or siri’s of events, walks or runs. This allows users to basically create a fundraising event around anything that’s of interest to them. So there may be people have a big bowling league. Ah, they can start a fund-raising ah event or siri’s of events on our platform on crowdster and and raise money for a particular organization. We also have are some even smaller organizations that create a whole platform for this. So if someone comes in and they developed templates for them, so it may be a birthday party, so wants to give their birthday someone wants. To throw a, you know, a wedding registry things like then, you know, our our platform takes it a little further than some of the others because it allows both the event and then the personal pages built off of that similar to some of the really big guys out in there, out in the space to really have that full so so user can come in and really build out a full fund-raising apparatus around a small event, some of the things that may be something the cheaper off the shelf products don’t teo and now, um, there has to be a balance between making this a simple process for the users, the donors on also for the team fundraisers, but then there has to be a degree of, you know, basic functions or maybe more than just basic. So we gotta we gotta balance between these, you know, if again not i don’t want to focus on crowdster but but if you’re evaluating sites, how do you decide if the balance is correct? He’s just based on what you think it ought to be? Or is there some kind of benchmark or something? Yeah, and that is how we’re gonna find the right site. That is the right balance. Yeah, and that is that that is a tough balance to make, you know, you you know what? We do a crowdster we have sort of a we have a very simple form you khun spent up a site in, you know, fifteen minutes, probably less. And then you can go into an advanced view and get a whole series of tools, you know, and and you have to again, if you know your constituents, if you know that core group of constituents that’ll help you in choosing a peer-to-peer fund-raising platform think about as you go and look at the tool. You know what? What are the key things that my constituents are asking before? Are they asking me for the ability to create teams? Are they asking me for the ability ability to donate in someone’s name? What of these? You know, one thing that, you know, i’ve discovered over the over the years of working with non-profits is there’s a very, very unique requirements around each individual organization, you know, they’re not all the same, they all have different fund-raising needs and that’s what i’d say. Look for a platform that’s as versatile as possible. Okay, okay. Um, the, you know, this is all about humans. This is all friends where we bring our networks in our friends are whether it’s, our teams or our family um, you want to make sure that the people who are fund-raising for you have enough say in in in the pitches sight and in the asking their message can come through personally, yeah, absolutely. And that should be tied. That should be a core, a core factor in whatever platform you choose but also a core factor in your social strategy. If no one’s people are going to give to a human face that if if you’re organization is around a certain medical condition, they’re going to give to people who have been affected by that condition, they’re not necessarily going to be you’re not going to give two x y z foundation or x y z society, right? They want to give to that individual they want to give to the person they know and that’s really the key is that so then make sure that your platform is telling their story, allowing them to tell their story. Allowing them to tell their story, you’re making it really easy for them to tell their own story, you know, are you allowing them to put up video? Are you allowing them to social share very easily? Are you allowing them to write two paragraphs and in bed photos? You no photos? Just, you know, photo cell, how many photos are you allowing them to put up? You know, are you letting them put in, like, a photo carousel that that people can click through and see sort of a progression of a child with a certain condition that may be, you know, something they live with over many years and progress through? Yeah, you had said earlier, you know, knowing your constituency in terms of what functionality versus simplicity you need, it could be just a simple is asking some of those key volunteers that the team captains, you know, what’s what’s important to you. I don’t know if it’s a survey or if it’s a face-to-face or however you but, you know, solicit the input of those key players as toe what they want. Yeah, absolutely. And that brings it all full circle, right? You’ve got to really get those people involved on dh. They’ll tell you what they want, and we did a lot of this. We did. A lot of this is all you got to ask. Yeah, yeah, we did a lot of this. That autism speaks where we had some real key people in different, you know, in in different we were talking about our walk program there, cem really vital volunteers. Some of them had really great digital skills just in there, you know? And they’re nine to five job. Others were good marketers. Other we’re just really carrying individuals. And we put together an advisory group that said, hey, what do you guys want in this next redesigned to the platform, you know, tell us what you want and a few things, you know, happen. You know, when you when you try to organize things from sort of the the organizational level, you think you i had a tendency, i would say to think in sort of numbers and and think about how do i how do i monitor? And what are my kp eyes? And you start to get a little business durney martignetti non-profit rating of drug in jail, but what is the k p i? Well, you know, aki performance indicator, you know? So you start to say, well, if i send out x number of emails, how many getting back and you start to think about what i want to be able to monitor this and blah, blah, blah and, you know, i had, ah, one of the art top volunteers, a really great guy reached out to me and he said, mike, you know, we’re doing we’re just sending out e mails in our own name we’re not sending you know, we’re making sure that, you know, the subject line is coming from me, the volunteer, not from you, you know? And that was one of the best things that was one of the greatest little changes that we made, you know, as opposed to handing them, saying, this is the perfect temple we’ve made the perfect meal for you, and you are now going to send it out and it’s going toe, you know, raise you a ton of money, you know, what they found is that if i write an e mail from me, you know, the guy who was who started this great walk you know, it’s not a big walk, but the people are really involved with the same people coming back, and they love it if the email comes from me and not from your organization, you know, people respond, you know, and it’s, you know, that’s, just one of those many sort of apple falling on my head type of thing where it’s like it’s got to be about your people. Look, they’re message come out. Yeah, okay, timing you can use you can use timing to your advantage. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and that’s where i i like to say that you have tio you can’t create urgency. You have to identify urgency, you know, on dh you see this sometimes with certain e-giving days that may fall flat because someone said, well, you know, march first works for me so let’s have e-giving day on march first and will lead up to it and everyone please give on march first, you know, but there’s, nothing really tight to it. All right? You know it. Autism speaks. Obviously, we had autism awareness day, world autism or to stay in real second. It made perfect sense, right? We need to you know, we need to get your urgency around because this is when we have the world’s focus on this condition. So we need you to get involved. We need you to register. We need you to turn the world blew on that day. You see it around a lot of other sort of, you know, when there’s a fundraising goal, we need it because it’s going to fund x number of of services for these individuals who need, you know, at autism or a ta that moby syndrome, the moby syndrome foundation. We have a big conference. We want to fund way want to fund scholarships for people to come to this conference because some of these people are all over the world. They don’t have the kind of money to come to los angeles this summer. So we want to put together so there’s a you know, there’s a deadline for that we need money so that we can pay for these people’s plane tickets to get them to this wonderful community where they’re going to see people. Some of these people have never met someone with moebius syndrome. We’ll be syndrome is a facial. Ah! Ah! Ah. Has ah, facial deformity. Paralysis. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We have to leave it there. Thank you very much. Excellent. Thanks for the tips. Cool. All right, well, thank you for having me. Mike weapon, chief product strategist at crowdster crowdster dot com next week. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor returns. If you missed any part of today’s show, i simply ask you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? I need a sign. I need some kind of sign the way forward. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with, as mike described apple pay crowdster dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is a line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do put money on a situation expected to heal. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.