Tag Archives: cryptocurrency

Nonprofit Radio for January 17, 2022: Legal Outlook For 2022

Gene Takagi: Legal Outlook For 2022

Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi returns for a mix of checklist items and emerging trends. It’s a good time to look big picture at your HR investments, corporate docs and financials. Also, what to look out for in crowdfunding, donor disclosure, data protection, and more. Gene is principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group (NEO) and our legal contributor.


Listen to the podcast

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!


Apple Podcast button




I love our sponsor!

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.


We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 574_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20220117.mp3

Processed on: 2022-01-17T01:38:56.677Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2022…01…574_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20220117.mp3.559147057.json
Path to text: transcripts/2022/01/574_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20220117.txt

[00:02:10.34] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of proto psychosis if you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show Legal Outlook for 2022, Gene Takagi returns for a mix of checklist items and emerging trends. It’s a good time to look at big picture items like your HR investments, corporate docs and financials also though what to look out for in crowdfunding donor disclosure, data protection and more, jean is principal of the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group Neo and our legal contributor On Tony’s take two 50% off planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. It’s always my pleasure to welcome back Gene Takagi to the show. You know who he is. It’s almost it’s almost superfluous for me for me to do the intro. But but jeanne deserves it. He’s well credentialed and I want to make sure that he gets his due introduction. Gene Takagi are legal contributor and managing attorney of Neo, the nonprofit and exempt organizations law group in saN Francisco. He edits that wildly popular nonprofit law blog dot com, which you should be following and he is a part time lecturer at Columbia University. The firm is at neo law group dot com and he’s at jeanne, Welcome back.

[00:02:11.94] spk_1:
Great to be back. tony how are you?

[00:02:13.98] spk_0:
It’s always a pleasure. Thank you. I’m well happy New Year.

[00:02:17.99] spk_1:
Happy New Year.

[00:03:05.74] spk_0:
Thank you. And let’s, so let’s let’s talk about the new year. Um and just before we do I want to remind folks that not too long ago we have genes one, our legal audit which you might want to look back at. That was a sort of a condensed version of some of what we’re gonna talk about today. Although we have lots of new subjects to talk about today too. But there was the one our legal audit and also with jean recently Risk management Part one and then a different show. Risk Management Part two. So those are resources that you can look back at just from a couple of months ago and we’ll go into and and those go into more detail on some of what we’re gonna talk about today jean. Uh where would you like to start for the new year, throw it open, throw it, I throw it open to you. What would you like to start with?

[00:03:58.64] spk_1:
So it does seem like kind of this chance that restarting, getting reenergized and thinking about our organizations and where we wanted to go. Um Yes, we have to keep in mind some of those um risks that we talked about in previous shows but we also have to think about kind of where we want to go. What of our, what our dreams are um what our vision is for the organization? Had we properly captured it? Um, what is our mission? Is that sort of properly captured? Is everything because our environment seems to be changing week by week. It seems to be new stuff that comes up that we have to consider. Are we still on track with where we want to go? So having these sort of broader discussions. I like sending those organizational priorities for the new year.

[00:04:06.64] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Um, what would you, what what priority would you like to start with?

[00:06:07.94] spk_1:
Sure. So, um, being the lawyer, I say, okay, let’s talk about legal compliance just to make sure we’ve got some systems in place, mission and values, which we’ve frequently emphasized them when we’ve had discussions about not just existing to further your mission, but to do it in a way that advances your values and if equity and inclusion of part of those values, then, you know, that’s something you should be thinking about as well, definitely considering some of the trends that are out there. And I know we’ll get into that a little bit later in the show, but also including kind of the times that we’re we live in and acknowledging that yes, we’re under the impact of Covid, which seems to be shifting constantly in both how it’s affecting us and how we might need to respond to it. The great resignation, which certainly isn’t completely unrelated to the Covid, but that is a huge trend and movement as we’re trying to figure out how do we keep our workers, are we burning them out? The mental health issues that are, you know, hitting pretty much all of us, um, from the isolation, remote, working from the uncertainties of health, from sick family members and loved ones and all of that and saying, well, are we going to be able to keep our team together? Should we be keeping our team together the way we’re working now? Do we need to shift our work practices? Do we need to shift what type of benefits for giving to them? All of those things have got to be sort of raised? And I would say raise at the board level, you know, together with the executives and senior management team. Let’s talk about it. Let’s brainstorm think about this and get what our organizational priorities are this year, because things can change rapidly and rapid change if you don’t have any plans um, to anticipate some of them don’t have contingency plans can force you into very, very stressful times where immediate actions are necessary and you can sometimes make bad decisions if you’re under that type of time stress. So

[00:06:18.63] spk_0:
then it because then it becomes a crisis

[00:06:20.30] spk_1:
right? Exactly.

[00:06:48.64] spk_0:
And and a crisis in staffing, especially knowing how hard it is to hire folks now, you know, you talked about, you know, keeping the team together or should we keep should we keep the team together? But, you know, I’m sure you’re seeing it with your clients. The difficulty in hiring, you know, you want to, that, that, that’s a, that’s a huge factor in, you know, do we have the right team? Well, putting the right team together, it’s gonna take a lot longer than it used to?

[00:08:01.94] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. And if you’re talking about retention, you got to figure out what are you going to invest in this? I know you want to, you know, provide as much as you can to your beneficiaries. But if you’re not really considering the team of people in, you know, on your team that are providing those services that are supporting those services, the whole thing can collapse. So just remember where your infrastructure and when your groundwork is and how important the human resources are in your organization to being able to deliver services and provide goods for your charitable missions. So really important not to neglect that. And that requires an investment both on retention and if you aren’t able to retain everybody and you need to recruit, you’re gonna have to be able to show what you’re going to invest in those new employees and give them time to learn. You can’t expect them to perform like experience people have, um, in the past. So it’s, you know, some patients, um, and definitely investment in education and training and orientation, um, and all the rest and again, um, to the extent that your executive is probably also overwhelmed with everything else going on. The board is really pivotal in trying to be able to come up with plans that help invest in their teams.

[00:08:10.44] spk_0:
This goes to legal audit the conversation we had a few months ago. You’d like to see a review of governing documents to.

[00:09:31.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I I always think that that’s a great thing to check out in the new year. Just even if you have somebody, you know, a higher up kind of a board member or where your executive or senior manager take a look At your articles and bylaws, even spending 30 minutes on it and saying is our mission really reflected in these documents or have we evolved into something else? And these documents are like stale and old and outdated now in that case those documents still rule. So if you have the I. R. S. Or a state regulator coming in audit you, if you’re not performing within that mission statement in your articles and bylaws, you could be acting completely out of compliance and worst case scenario, you can really threaten the organization through penalties, etcetera. So that’s something to take a look at. Also just take a look at a lot of organizations. I find out their their boards, they’re like, oh, you know, we forgot to elect them. You know, we, we, you know, we’ve had terms, you know of two years but they’ve been on for like 10 years and we’re happy with them. So we just don’t do elections that can be really, really harmful as well for multiple reasons. But you know, sit back, see what you’re doing and what you’re not doing consistent with your articles and bylaws. And if you need to change things determine that you have to change. And if you need the help of a lawyer, try to find somebody that can help you with that. And there are some good resources on the web as well.

[00:09:48.64] spk_0:
What’s, what’s one of the good resources?

[00:10:15.04] spk_1:
A little bit of a self plug because I’m a board member, but board source has excellent resources on board of directors, governance things of that nature. Stanford University also has excellent resources in terms of sort of template documents that are just a guide for nonprofits. It’s not one size fits all, but it just gives you a general idea about how some things operate. Um, so those are just too good resources to look at.

[00:10:18.35] spk_0:
And, and again, we, we talked about this extensively in the show called your one

[00:10:24.34] spk_1:
hour legal audit.

[00:10:30.14] spk_0:
You have some last one. You have some financial performance advice for the new year.

[00:13:04.74] spk_1:
Yeah. Well I think probably, um, most people take a look at their financials throughout the year on the board level and on the executive level. Um, but the new year, you’ve actually sort of completed your financials and they might not be, um, in final form yet, but you might have what some people call it pro form, a set of financials, um, sort of close to final, where you get to assess what you’ve done in the year, you know, for, for most organizations, this goes without saying, but you want to make sure that you’re performing in a way that you’re not becoming insolvent. So you want to make sure what your balance sheet looks like and whether you have net assets, um, if you don’t have net assets, that means that you are either insolvent or, you know, in the zone of insolvency, you have to think about how you’re going to address that very serious issue. And I would say you don’t have internal expertise on dealing with it, get outside help right away if that’s the case. But your, your statement of revenues and expenses as well, are you sort of operating what people call in the black so that there is, you know, some net income in there or are you operating in the red where you’re very concerned because you’re losing money, timing is always important. So it’s misleading to look at one year in isolation because sometimes grants are given in one year, but they’re actually uh received in another year. So the timing issue can pose different challenges about reading financials. So you want to be able to read it sort of collectively through a multi year period just to know where you stand. And again, if board members aren’t able to help an executive and the executive feels like they need some help with understanding financials, to reading financials invest in everybody’s training in this area and there are a lot of people, even pro bono, that, that are offering this training pro bono and a lot of resources on the web. So make sure you understand your financials and what they’re indicating. You don’t need to know every single financial ratio that you know, business people use, but just generally no. Are you healthy financially or are you trending bad? And if you have several years where you’re in the red, where you, where you’re not making money, it looks like you’re bleeding money, then that might be indicative of some change that’s necessary in order to make your organization sustainable on an ongoing basis. So again, you don’t want to hit crisis mode financially. So this is a good chance, take a look at your financials, not just last year, but over a multiyear period and see where you are, get help if you need it.

[00:15:08.54] spk_0:
We have a show that I replayed, oh, I think within the past six months, uh, the guest was Andy Robinson. So you could go to tony-martignetti dot com and just search his name Andy Robinson, but it was something like teaching your board basic financials and he wrote a book, I’m pretty sure it was published by charity channel, uh, with, with a title similar to that. So if you, and the show is a few years old, but reading financial statements and and balance sheets hasn’t changed much in probably 100 years. Um, so it’s just all in and out now now, it’s all in Excel. But uh, so if you’d like some help with that, there is a, there is a show where Andy Robinson was the guest talking about, you’re improving your boards, financial literacy. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications, your 2022 communications plan. Does it have lots of projects? Lots of writing projects? You can get the biggest projects off your plate and outsource them. Free up staff time to devote to the work that it’s not feasible to have others doing for you. Like the annual report, just because it’s been done in house in the past, doesn’t mean it has to be done in house this year. What about research reports, White papers, your other heavy lift pieces. Do you need help with writing projects in 2022, Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Now, back to legal outlook for 2022 with Gene Takagi. Okay, so let’s talk about some trends then, jean, you have a, you have a case we haven’t talked about, we haven’t talked about an actual case for a while. Americans for prosperity.

[00:19:16.54] spk_1:
Yeah. So um that was a huge U. S. Supreme Court case at least huge for the nonprofit sector. Um, but with deeper implications for if I if I’m not over hyping it for democracy itself. So um so americans for prosperity, Foundation versus Banta, who was the California Attorney general basically it was about the schedule be disclosure of donors who donated more than $5000. So for nonprofits who know how to prepare their form 19 nineties, you’ll know that on schedule B of your form 1990. Eur actually disclosing to the I. R. S. It’s not public information. Um But it’s to the I. R. S. The name and address of your donors who donated more than $5000. Now that hasn’t changed, you still have to disclose it to the I. R. S. But certain states, including California where volunteers from as the attorney general um New york I believe New Jersey I believe Hawaii also included Um all asked for a copy of the 990 including an unredacted schedule B to be given to the state regulator because they also want to look at that information for state law compliance purposes. A lot of them are concerned about donors who give money but get something back in return that’s not being disclosed. So if they ever have to have an investigation of that, that information turns out to be very helpful to the state to be able to say ah they were giving money but they also took in this huge benefit, this huge contract for example, which you know, reap them millions of dollars. Um So there was a legal case um that went up through the courts um finally hit the U. S. Supreme Court and the A. G. Lost here, The California G. Um So the court decided and we know the court’s composition is fairly conservative right now. The court decided that uh the states don’t have this right. Um It was based on the fact finding of the lower courts which is a little bit unfortunate because if the higher court could have considered more facts, then it might have been decided a different way but based on kind of how how our legal system works and and and how the Supreme Court works and the composition of the Supreme Court. They held that, hey this is not disclosed able to the states essentially that’s the impact of it. The broader impact on why I said democracy might be uh issue here is because well what about sort of campaign finance disclosures? And what about the I. R. S. Should they be entitled to that information as well? So it’s really helpful in compliance. But the counter argument and why some organizations charities, we’re also um not in favor of the disclosures is because of the protection of the donor. And the old case cited um in this part of the argument was an N double A cp case that said, well, if we disclose our donors, the KKK had threatened to kill all of them. Um And you can see why privacy was important in that issue and this issue, it was nothing like this. I think it’s a Koch brothers, um, kind of funded charity. They wanted really to keep their identity, um, more hidden because they have desires to influence politics in many ways. And if it always gets associated with them, then the impact lessons. So if they can look like they’re ground swells of movements that are funding these things rather than individual donors, um, it looks better for for what they’re trying to do. So that’s, you know, that’s what’s at stake here is not only are the state’s not allowed to get this information that would really help them in state law enforcement of whether there’s diversion of charitable assets that benefit

[00:19:29.74] spk_0:
donors. But

[00:19:30.15] spk_1:
in the broader sense, are we going to allow more dark money to enter into our political systems without knowing that there are donors, heavy donors that back these, you know, politicians or political parties or political movements. So that’s the scary part about this decision.

[00:19:57.94] spk_0:
What’s the, I think infamous Supreme Court case that that allowed the allowed the dark money into, uh, into politics. United

[00:20:02.73] spk_1:
Citizens. United

[00:20:27.54] spk_0:
United. Yeah. Um, All right. All right. And so I just want to repeat this. So this case that Gene was just talking about is americans for prosperity Foundation V. Banta B. O. N. T. A. What about crowdfunding you, you point out that there’s a new crowdfunding law. Hope is this a little more optimistic? I hope?

[00:21:22.54] spk_1:
Uh, well, depending upon how you look at it. And I think in one sense it’s inevitable. Um, a lot of our laws that are developed regarding fundraising, um, don’t even, and never anticipated the internet, right, johnny. So, uh, you know, now crowdfunding platform is, you know, not just the internet, the use of the internet, but it’s a lot of different for profit companies getting involved, um, to enable charities and organizations and people who are not charities to raise funds that look like they could be for charitable purposes, Right? So you want to help victims of a fire, but you want to help them directly, because some individuals said, I want to start a Go fund Me campaign, right? And say, well, you know, chip in 50 bucks and let’s try to get these people some help doesn’t, that doesn’t go through a charity. Often it just goes to this person, right, who promises to give these other people money

[00:21:35.90] spk_0:
and go funding the person’s goodwill. Honestly, yeah,

[00:21:58.14] spk_1:
Go fund Me is, you know, reacted to this and they’re probably the biggest crowdfunding platforms. So they’ve reacted to this in terms of having their own internal policies to help prevent a check. But overall, there’s, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of crowdfunding platforms out there that do this to make a profit. Um, and they may not have those types of controls or checks to not to just, you know, prevent somebody from saying, let’s raise money to help fire victims and then just keeping it. Um, so,

[00:22:11.97] spk_0:
what, what, what is the import of the law for, for us?

[00:23:21.34] spk_1:
So I think the import of the law is, if you’re going to get on and decide, hey, we want to do crowdfunding, um, you’ve got to select your platform provider carefully and this law, which is in California, but is likely to spread across different states in various forms, says, well now, if you’re gonna do that, you’ve got to make sure that this crowdfunding platform is registered. Um, and they’re reporting and there are all sorts of rules involved. So if you have a contract with them, it should be subject to these rules that might say things like, well, if they collect money, they have to give the money to the charity within a certain time period. Right? So they couldn’t say, well, it takes this administration, so maybe a couple of years before you get that, you know, nobody’s gonna be happy with that, but without rules, why not? Um, so these are, this is why it’s important for charities to have rules. The actual details of the rules. So I can see why some people have some, some issue with them. And we haven’t had all of the regulations yet, they’re still in discussion. So this is very, Still very trending, but the crowdfunding law, the law, the general law that’s in place now will become effective in California in 2023, and the regulations are being developed right now,

[00:23:58.04] spk_0:
let’s turn to remote work, which is obviously so much more common now. Hybrid work, you know, return to work dates are being pushed off and off. Um What what are what are what are what trends are you seeing? What should be on, will you be on the lookout for with respect to uh remote work and employment law issues?

[00:25:10.84] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s, you know, this is a really tricky area. Um you know, for sure, Covid where people were suddenly not permitted to to go indoors in some cases for months. Um and who knows if, you know, we’re going to return to some of those scenarios with the omicron variant out there, We’re hoping that it’s less um severe in terms of its impact, even if it might be a more transmissible, but if we if we keep worrying about this and saying, you know, our workers aren’t comfortable coming to work, even if the law allows them to come to work. Um Maybe we’re going to let people work remotely, and many of us have gone full remote, some of us have gone back to partial returns, some have gone back to full returns and then gone back, you know out the other way and said, okay, you know, it’s at the workers discretion whether they want to come in or not. So what makes us a little bit tricky. Um is that you don’t control the work environment as the employer, if they’re working at home, right? Um but that becomes the work environment, if they’re doing work from home, that’s their work environment, and, you know, the employer is responsible for the work environment if they should get hurt, for example,

[00:25:22.94] spk_0:

[00:26:56.24] spk_1:
So it becomes a little bit tricky about, well, how do you, how do you handle that for workers comp reasons, for safety reasons, for OSHA reasons? Um and I think there’s an understanding by regulators that, you know, this is out of control of most small businesses, small charities and, you know, to to that extent, we’re not really gonna look to enforce things on that level, but there are other things that, that are also concerning, because not everybody goes when, when they decide to work remote, we work in the same city or in the same state, right. A lot of us um have decided to, you know, maybe move back with family, which might be in another state. In some cases it could be another country, or some of us have decided to travel and spend a little bit of time, you know, in different places. Um So how does allow treat that? And basically, you know, the old rules, which are the rules, many of us are stuck with. Um the old rules are, well, you have to comply with the laws where the worker is doing the work, so if you have a worker in new york who’s now working remotely and came out to florida, well, then all the employment rules regarding worker safety and wage and hour laws and salary, overtime, sick pay benefits, all the florida laws apply to that worker now. Um, and so now it’s like, well, you’ve got to work in florida, you’ve got to think about, are you qualified to do business in

[00:27:00.21] spk_0:

[00:27:36.94] spk_1:
charity registration in florida? Um, and you may have had no connection to florida before, but all of a sudden you have a worker working there. Um, so a few states, um, and they’re not very many, but a few states that said, well, you know, during covid, we’ve got these temporary rules where we’re relaxed, where you don’t have to do that. And there’s also state tax issues, right? State payroll taxes, and, and other times, all of those things, some states said, you don’t have to worry about it. A lot of organizations are simply not complying with, But,

[00:27:37.49] spk_0:
but you said it’s only a handful of states that said, we’re we’re we’re not enforcing

[00:27:42.14] spk_1:
right. Exactly.

[00:27:43.33] spk_0:
The majority of

[00:29:01.34] spk_1:
states are, Yeah, well, I shouldn’t say they’re enforcing, but they haven’t the old laws or the existing laws still apply. There are no transition laws, so you’re out of compliance. And if they do enforce, which might not be like a, you know, a regulator coming out to you and saying you haven’t done this, it may be your employee is unhappy with something you’ve done, who’s working there and said, hey florida law applies and you haven’t been complying with the florida sort of benefits laws that, that apply. And maybe I could give you more specific example because san Francisco, if you came out to California, your remote employee came out to California, san Francisco has mandatory six hours and not a lot, a lot of states don’t have sick our pay. Um, but all of a sudden if you’re not paying them and they get wind of that, hey, you were supposed to pay me for this and you haven’t been, it’s the employee who could launch the complaint. Um, so it’s just to be careful of these things and, and just as your strategy for charity registration, tony when you’re sort of fundraising all over the country to, to, you’re not going to be able to maybe do all 50 states at once, but just to make sure you’ve got a plan to attack this kind of the same thing here. Um, check out where your employees are, you should know exactly where they are and check each state in terms of how strictly, maybe in terms of enforcing this and start to slowly comply

[00:30:12.74] spk_0:
the implications of state law. Yeah. What about the technology remote work? I don’t know if that’s all been figured out yet and maybe there were, maybe there were stopgap measures during the, during the, the darkest part of the pandemic, but but going forward, you know, tech technology has to be, has to be upgraded. You know, are we gonna, we’re gonna continue providing work phones? Are we going to provide work laptops? What about paying for internet access over the long term? I mean, you know, the internet access can be costly. And if if work is taking up a lot of the bandwidth, isn’t it appropriate for an employer to be paying a portion? And then how do then how does the, how does the, what’s the mechanism for the employee verifying how much they pay and you know, and then what percentage are we gonna cover of that, all the all the technology issues around, around remote work.

[00:30:58.44] spk_1:
Yeah, def definitely. And and as an as an employer, I would say, beyond sort of any legal compliance issues, um, you’ve got a, I think an ethical issue to make sure you’re providing your employees with the tools to do their job. And if you’re allowing remote work, you should make sure that they have the tools. So if they need a computer to be able to access it, so they’re not, they’re not using their personal computer. Um then you should make sure that happens same thing with the telephone. And if, you know, if those are going to be dedicated to work, um it should be explicitly written out that way. But if you force them to use their personal things, there are some states that actually do have laws that say you must reimburse your your employees if they’re using the tools that they need um for for remote work, but just ethically. Yeah.

[00:31:18.74] spk_0:
But then that’s then that raises security issues too. Absolutely. They have any kind of HIPPA protected information on their personal laptop. That’s gonna be a big problem. That that’s I think that’s probably a mistake if you’re dealing with that kind of data. But um

[00:32:01.74] spk_1:
and don’t we probably all have that type of stuff on our personal computers, right? You know, sort of HIPPA protected? We may have had emails like that are saved onto our computers. Um Right. So if if the computer is also being used for work and there’s a work issue that causes that data to be taken or corrupted, like, you know, what’s the employer’s responsibility if they hadn’t provided an alternative, it’s a great point

[00:32:50.94] spk_0:
and and it’s not only hip hop data, but other other personalized data that that maybe on now the personals, the employee’s personal computer, desktop or laptop or phone, you know, how is that? How is that private private data protected? Do they have malware prevention on their on their personal devices so that so that company emails that they’re that they’re using on their personal device aren’t potentially compromised. I mean, the use of the personal equipment raises a lot of technology and and Legal privacy and ethical issues to your right. I mean, if the person is eight or 10 hours a day, they’re using their personal laptop, shouldn’t there be some compensation for that?

[00:34:46.94] spk_1:
Yeah. And I think minimally because no matter you know how much we encourage people to have sort of work dedicated computers provided by the workplace, people are going to use their personal phones. I mean we can go back to the politicians who have all been using their personal funds. So we know it happens regardless of what the best practices. But what can the employer do, they can pay for all of that data protection stuff that that computer should have. Right, tony because now it has much more sensitive information on there and the employer is partly responsible for some of the other information that could be on there and hack. So yeah, employers should help. And that kind of leads us to the whole data security issue as well that everybody’s got to be paying attention to now is really um nonprofits have important data in their system. Some of it is, you know, hipaa protected some of it is other privacy information. You may have employment reviews on there that you don’t want going out into the real world or client, you know, feedback which might be positive. Some of it might be negative sensitive communications, all sorts of stuff that you might find on a work computer and if it gets hacked and if that data gets stolen or if somebody holds the system which might run your programs or aspects of your programs if they cause your system to crash and say that they will only sort of fix it because they’ve hacked and caused the crash. If you pay a ransom, you’ve got all sorts of problems. Uh and maybe some of that may have been mitigated with some basic steps like you mean you’re not going to be, well even the U. S. Government can’t prevent all hackers. I think we we know that, but you can take reasonable steps based on your budget, whatever that might be to to control some of this. So it really is important to have some safeguards.

[00:34:55.74] spk_0:
Another potential category of data is the G. D. P. R. Data. If if if your nonprofit is implicated at all in in that european common law law then or the yeah then then you’ve got those concerns as well.

[00:35:08.94] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. So if you have european donors or you’re doing business with any european entities and you have data from those entities or persons be careful and again, remote working can trigger some of that. So if if they decided to, you know their home or or they want to travel to europe and do their work from there.

[00:35:28.74] spk_0:

[00:35:29.74] spk_1:
all sorts of implications.

[00:37:44.03] spk_0:
Yeah. Absolutely right. People very good point where where people are sitting and where they’re planted when they’re working, It’s time for Tony Take two We’ve got 50% off the tuition for planned giving accelerator. That’s because just last week A donor stepped up someone who believes very deeply in planned giving accelerator and he is offering to pay 50% of the tuition For the 1st 10 nonprofits that take him up on his offer. A couple have already done it as of the time I’m recording, but there are several spots left. So if you’ve been toying with the idea of planned giving accelerator, it’s never going to be cheaper than 50% off. What the way this will work is. You’ll pay the tuition in full, which is $1195 for the six month course. This donor will then make a gift to you of half of that. So you’ll have a new donor, he’ll pay half your tuition. So it ends up being 50% off the full tuition cost. I know the donor, it’s someone I trust you have my word. Your final cost will be half of the full tuition if you’d like to jump on this and be one of the members of what is now our february class. I want to give people enough time for this because it, it just came in last week. So I’m extending, we’re, we’re not gonna start the class until february if you’d like to be part of that february class At 50% off email and we’ll, we’ll talk about planned giving accelerator and whether it can help you launch your planned giving program. Mhm. tony at tony-martignetti dot com. That’s me. That is Tony’s take two, We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for legal outlook for 2022

[00:38:01.22] spk_1:
one and one of the tools to think about and I’m a little bit guilty of this as well um is be careful of public wifi um because that often is an entryway for a

[00:38:03.83] spk_0:
hacker. Yeah, that’s totally unsecured airports, airplanes,

[00:38:09.89] spk_1:
coffee shops,

[00:38:13.42] spk_0:
coffee shops, Starbucks, wherever those are, all unsecured networks.

[00:38:29.32] spk_1:
Right? Meaning that there is the potential for somebody in there who has some malicious intent if they want to be able to hack into to your computer through that public wifi. Unsecured wifi. And there are different systems um but maybe one of the simplest for for those of us who have smartphones, which I think is most of us is you could actually create a sort of a private wifi just

[00:38:52.92] spk_0:
for your smartphone, right? Hotspot? Hotspot and don’t use the unsecured wifi to connect to, you know, use the uh the four G or five G or the five GHZ et cetera.

[00:38:56.17] spk_1:
Right? And that’s something an employer could pay to make sure that the employee has significant data and data plan that can incorporate all the additional data that they may need in their plan because of the work. So again, that would be reasonable and and ethical for the nonprofit employer to pay for their employees to have a higher data plan. Um, if they’re going to to use that and insist as a policy that they do not use public wifi. If they’re using a work computer or a computer that contains work and sensitive information,

[00:39:36.52] spk_0:
all you need is to transmit an email on, on an unsecured wifi that that has a donors credit card number, maybe

[00:39:38.77] spk_1:

[00:39:58.12] spk_0:
birth address, name any, any two of those things together, uh, hacked could be very detrimental to that donor. And you know, whether it ever gets traced back to you is is uncertain, but you’ve, you’ve put your donors privacy at risk in a simple email that has any two of those pieces of information.

[00:40:04.31] spk_1:
And it appears to be a myth, um, when people have relied on, they’re not going to go after us because we’re nonprofits, people don’t go

[00:40:12.29] spk_0:
after. Oh, that’s bullshit. Oh, that’s ridiculous.

[00:40:14.57] spk_1:

[00:40:22.61] spk_0:
I’m working with a client now that, that is a, is in new york city that’s, that’s, um, victim of, of a malware, uh, ransomware, so brought me a ransomware attack.

[00:40:27.61] spk_1:

[00:40:40.41] spk_0:
And they’re keeping it quiet so I’m not permitted to say who it is. But um, yeah, they’ve, they’ve been, they’ve been hindered for weeks and weeks with data accessibility issues.

[00:40:42.71] spk_1:
Yeah. And it’s much more common than we think because organizations do want to keep it quiet because if there is a vulnerability, they don’t want to come and say other hackers come come and attack us, we’re vulnerable. So it may be much more pervasive than we think

[00:40:57.61] spk_0:
and that myth also breaks down along ideological

[00:41:00.04] spk_1:

[00:41:21.61] spk_0:
Some some person on the left may may attack an organization on the right. Some person on the right may attack an organization on the left just because of where the organization stands with respect to the person’s political and ideological beliefs that that that’s enough. It doesn’t matter that you’re a nonprofit. It’s it’s your ideology and your mission. It has nothing to do with your tax exempt status as to why somebody would or wouldn’t go after you.

[00:41:28.41] spk_1:
Yeah and um in these times that those ideological differences have been very um pronounced and. Yeah.

[00:41:41.11] spk_0:
Alright where else should we go? Gene with trends, trends for the new year. Come on.

[00:44:24.69] spk_1:
Um Let’s talk a little bit since we’re talking about technology and data security. Let’s talk a little bit about crypto currency because I find that pretty fascinating. Um There was an organization that came together and bid $40 million on a copy of the U. S. Constitution just a few weeks ago. Um That money the $40 million plus more I think about 47 or $48 million was raised for that purpose in less than two weeks. Um So um Cryptocurrency donors um often have made a ton of money because of the appreciation of cryptocurrencies like. Bitcoin for for those who aren’t super familiar with it. Um And if you donate Cryptocurrency, it’s like donating a non cash asset, meaning that if You bought crypto currency for $1,000 10 years ago and it’s worth now several million dollars, which if you bought the red Cryptocurrency, that might be the case if you sold it, uh you would have a lot of taxes to pay on that appreciation right? The several million dollars of appreciated income that would be subject to capital gains tax. Um So if you sold it and donated some of the proceeds, that would not be a very tax efficient way to donate. When if you donated the Cryptocurrency itself, what you do is you get to take a fair market value deduction of the several million dollars. So you gave several million. So potentially you could deduct that is a charitable contribution and pay no capital gains tax because he never sold it. Um So very tax efficient way of giving um And Cryptocurrency people, wealthy millionaires and others who decided that they wanted see some positive impact um from giving these gifts are are making gifts of Cryptocurrency now and that’s that’s partly why I am so many gathered together to say hey we’d like to fund a charity to buy a copy of the U. S. Constitution so that we can ensure that this constitution is always for the public’s benefit and on public viewership and not sitting in somebody’s house, you know for for their own prestige. Um But that really opens it up, cherish. Think about there’s a lot of these people who made quite a bit of money on Cryptocurrency and a lot of younger people are investing barely heavily in Cryptocurrency now. So it’s something to not sort of blow away if we’re um kind of our age or older, tony to say, Cryptocurrency, what is that? It’s it’s something to really embrace now because it’s it’s not just this exotic tool now, it’s part of regular investment portfolios.

[00:45:56.79] spk_0:
Absolutely, it’s it’s it’s coming and and jean this dovetails perfectly with Our November 15 show of 2021 Bitcoin in the future of fundraising with my guests who are an Connolly and Jason shim who wrote a book Bitcoin in the future of fundraising. So, um it’s do you it’s just more, more sage advice that crypto donations are coming. It’s not a matter of if it’s just when are you gonna get on board now or you’re gonna wait two more years and potentially be behind the curve. Um and as an and Jason pointed out today, there are so few organizations accepting crypto that a lot of people are just searching for. Where can I donate? Cryptocurrency and probably largely, Gene for the reasons you’re describing there, They’re looking for a direct crypto donation to help them with substantial capital gains. Are there specific legal implications of crypto donations that that we need to be aware of or or is it just, you know, you just want folks to know that this trend is, it’s in the middle, it’s happening right now.

[00:48:15.97] spk_1:
So I think, you know, one of the reasons why charities are afraid to take Kryptos because they don’t know what laws apply when they receive the crypto. They’re like, what do we do with this? Um, and there are ways to easily cash that out and turn it into us cash. And in fact, most charities that accept crypto and they’re not a lot, you’re right, tony but most carriers that accept them liquidate them immediately turned them into cash and deposited into fiat currency, like regular paper currency, um, in their bank accounts. Um, So they’re not holding onto the crypto very long at all. One of the reasons why that’s, that can be very important is because there are prudent investor rules for charities that don’t apply to for profits that basically say if you’ve got investment assets, charities, this is not just endowments, but just any sort of investment assets for reserves or for a capital fund or anything you can’t invest. It speculatively, you couldn’t just throw it all in like Apple stock, um that would be too speculative. You have to look at it, uh, through what financial professionals, investment professionals called portfolio theory, are you sufficiently um, have an investment portfolio diversified across several different asset classes? So if one bombs, you haven’t tanked all of your money. Um, and the board of directors have a fiduciary duty to live up to the prudent investment laws that also sort of follow this portfolio theory of how how have you actually divest? Sorry? Um diversify Yeah. Um your your funds across different investment classes to protect yourself and there are different considerations that go along with that. Um But that is one reason why you don’t want to get stuck with all of your investments being in crypto because crypto maybe one of the most volatile type of investments where it can double in a matter of days and it could tank and disappear in a matter of days as well. So depending upon what type of Cryptocurrency you have and there are hundreds if not thousands of crypto types of Cryptocurrency um that have evolved in a lot of people and organizations that are making new coins all the time. So new new forms of Cryptocurrency arising and while we talked about crypto as being a part of more investment portfolios as a normal part of of investments. Now it’s not every Cryptocurrency that would be in that it’s certainly one

[00:48:47.07] spk_0:
1000 right? Some of these thousands trade for thousands of pennies, Thousands Yeah thousands of pennies even you know .0001 three zeros and a one is you know is the value of the currency. Um So. Alright that’s perfect as I said, perfect dovetail to that to that uh that november show because you’re you’re raising the prudent investor rule and and uh portfolio theory.

[00:50:07.66] spk_1:
One more thing on this, tony the forms the I. R. S. Forms for when you get Non cash contributions of more than $500. And how quickly you sell them. Um Also applies to form 82 83 is what the donor needs to sign when they give a non cash contribution of over $500 of over $500. And if it’s over $5000 which many crypto gifts are, they have to get a qualified appraisal for this. So that’s really important. And the Dhoni which is the charity has to sign that form for the donor. And then if the donor the Dhoni, I’m sorry the charity sells it within three years, they have to sign a form 80 to 82. Yeah so that’s again it’s not terribly hard. It sounds like a lot of just legalese I’m blabbing out but it’s not too hard but just take a quick look at those. If you decide that you want to start getting Cryptocurrency and at worst you might ask your donor to find a donor advised fund that takes crypto turns it into cash and then disperses it to the charity. So there are donor advised funds that do that

[00:50:15.76] spk_0:
interesting. Okay so so a Cryptocurrency donation is a non cash donation

[00:50:19.90] spk_1:

[00:50:58.76] spk_0:
Okay and for non cash donations of $500 or more, That’s where your your donor has the implication of i. r. s. Form 82 83. And you as the charity if you sell it within three years which your advice is that they do because it’s of its volatility Then you’ve got the implication of i. r. s. Form 80 – 82. I always thought those were backwards. The donors should have 80 to 82 because that comes first. Then comes 82 83 from the don’t to the Dhoni first the donor has it. Then the charity should be 80 to 82 82 83. But it’s not It’s 82 83 for your donor and 80 – 82 for you.

[00:51:06.16] spk_1:
That sounds like larry david logic. But that’s how I think as well.

[00:51:10.58] spk_0:
Yeah. I’ve been accused of being larry David in lots of ways. Including my my hair when it’s long like it is

[00:51:16.23] spk_1:
now. I’ve

[00:51:33.46] spk_0:
been accused of looking like Larry David. But we’re not complaining, we’re helping. That’s all right. Um Alright let’s leave us with something else. Another trend for the new year that you want us to be thinking about gene. Um

[00:51:36.96] spk_1:
Let me talk a little bit about diversity equity and inclusion. Since we’ve we’ve talked about that in the

[00:51:42.21] spk_0:
past. You could search jean and I have talked about D. I a bunch of times. But

[00:53:46.05] spk_1:
yeah please. You know I think in combination when we talk about the great migration and how the pandemic might be affecting different populations in different ways that we start to think again about kind of? Well if our charity is doing some some mission and we might not think of that mission as being really reflective of of specific races or or anything like that. Um But could D. E. I. B. Important anyway. And I think that’s where we get to think about. Well if we had more perspectives in our organization, if if we’re lacking some of those perspectives now, for example not having a lot of latin thinks Hispanics or blacks or asian americans on the board or in the leadership group, maybe we’re not really thinking about how our services that we’re delivering are affecting different populations differently. Maybe we’re just sort of providing services but we’re focused on urban centers or urban centers where if we’re center based, our center based is in neighborhoods that are much more accessible to uh white populations versus other populations. So getting different perspectives, even if we think of ourselves as being race neutral, which is kind of a charged term. But I’ll just use it for for these purposes. If we think some of us think of ourselves as race neutral and therefore we don’t have to get involved in the D. E. I work. We want to say, well don’t we care about serving our population in a way that’s kind of fair and not just favoring one segment over other segments or just totally neglecting certain segments of the population because they don’t have the same type of access. Have we ever thought about those things and having diversity can help us think about those things. Um, but it has to be done obviously in an inclusive way, which we’ve talked about and I know we just have a few minutes here, but it’s

[00:54:03.34] spk_0:
sort of it’s touching on, you know, not knowing what you don’t know without without having the perspective of diverse populations on your board, in your leadership, then you don’t know how you’re not serving other non white populations. Yeah. And even when we were perceived by other by by non white populations.

[00:55:32.64] spk_1:
Yeah, exactly. And even when we say, well when we look at a group of people and we say diversity, you know, that has one meaning. But sometimes when we just look in our inside our own heads, uh, and when people go unconscious bias, for example, try to think about what that is. It’s like, well if we don’t have the benefit of having different perspectives are being exposed to that all of our lives and none of us have all of the perspectives in our lives. So we were all going to be guilty of some sort of unconscious bias because we just don’t know any better. We we haven’t had other information that would have help develop a sensitivity or understanding or just knowledge of some of the disparities that are out there. So, and and how our organization can be either helping those disparities or hindering them. So just getting a sense of where we’d like to go. I think that can improve employee retention. It can lead us to new areas of employee recruitment and it can make us more relevant as organizations in the future, where if we’re not addressing some of these things, we could find ourselves becoming irrelevant less attractive to future donors, especially younger donors who this is very important to. Um, and so that’s my, my closing thought. Mhm.

[00:55:48.24] spk_0:
All good thoughts for uh, for the new year for 2022, Gene Takagi are legal, legal contributor, Managing attorney of Neo. You’ll find him at nonprofit law blog dot com. He’s also at G attack and you’ll find the firm at neo law group dot com. Gene again, thank you very much. Happy New Year.

[00:55:57.39] spk_1:
Happy New Year. tony

[00:56:47.13] spk_0:
next week. I’m working on it very diligently. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by Turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Do you need help with any of those ready projects in 2022? Get them off your plate. A creative producer is claire Meyerhoff. The shows social media is by Susan Chavez Marc Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein. Mm hmm, thank you for that affirmation scotty Be with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for November 15, 2021: Bitcoin & The Future Of Fundraising

My Guests:

Anne Connelly & Jason Shim: Bitcoin & The Future Of Fundraising


That’s the new book by Anne Connelly and Jason Shim. They share the potential in cryptocurrency donations and explain simply, how to get started. Private keys; public keys; wallets; and exchanges. It’s time to learn what’s inevitably in your nonprofit’s future.






Listen to the podcast

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!




Apple Podcast button




I love our sponsor!

Turn Two Communications: PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is our mission.


We’re the #1 Podcast for Nonprofits, With 13,000+ Weekly Listeners

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
View Full Transcript

Transcript for 567_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20211115.mp3

[00:00:02.84] spk_1:

[00:00:10.84] spk_2:
and welcome to

[00:03:09.04] spk_1:
tony-martignetti non profit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of hydrogen itis security Eva if you rubbed me the wrong way with the idea that you missed this week’s show, Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. That’s the new book by ANn Connolly and Jason shim They share the potential in Cryptocurrency donations and explain simply how to get started private keys, public keys, wallets and exchanges. It’s time to learn what’s inevitably in your nonprofit’s future. I’m tony state too, Veterans Day, We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o here is Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. It’s my pleasure to welcome co authors to nonprofit radio and Connolly is faculty at singularity University. She’s worked at Doctors without Borders and been a member of their board. As director of fundraising at Dignitas International. She set up one of the world’s first Bitcoin donation programs and is certified in strategic disruption from Harvard business school, Which sounds like a degree in anarchy. We’ll talk a little about what that what that’s about. She was named one of Canadian broadcasting corporations. 12 young leaders in changing. Canada and one of the 50 most inspirational women in technology in Canada. She’s at an underscore Connolly and welcoming back Jason shim he’s director of digital strategy and transformation at pathways to education. Canada his experience spans the nonprofit and academic sectors helping organizations stay ahead of the technology curve In 2013, he led pathways to become the first charity to issue tax receipts for Bitcoin donations. He’s an editor at ledger, a peer reviewed scholarly journal at the University of Pittsburgh Pit, publishing original research on Cryptocurrency and Blockchain technology. Jason is on the board of intend where amY sample ward, our listeners know her is Ceo and Jason is at Jason shim together they wrote the book Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. A beginner’s guide to crypto, crypto currency donations and welcome to non private radio Jason. Welcome back.

[00:03:12.14] spk_0:
Thank you so much.

[00:03:13.50] spk_2:
Thanks for having us.

[00:03:52.24] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure pleasure to have both of you. Uh and let’s start with you, the the Cryptocurrency is like a new technology like at one time the telephone and talking movies, right? Talkies and the T. V. And internet and cell phones. Uh these technologies all had their their naysayers and those who thought it was just a fad, you know, talking movies, those will never last. So what do we what do we say to folks who are naysayers. Uh thinking that Cryptocurrency maybe it’s just a fad or it’s too dangerous. How do we allay those concerns about this new technology,

[00:04:43.64] spk_0:
It’s very reasonable for people to be nervous about new technology. I mean I can remember my parents talking about the Internet back in, you know the early to late 90s and saying, you know anyone will be able to look up the recipe for a bomb like we need to stop this, this is dangerous. And you know, that’s true in today’s world, anyone probably could look up the recipe for a bomb, but no one would ever consider saying we should stop the Internet. It’s a bad thing for society. Um And I think that’s where we’re at with cryptocurrencies as people are still in that phase where they’re learning about maybe some of the scarier elements. Uh and they haven’t quite gotten to realizing just how powerful and incredible this technology is, both for themselves, but also for society and people around the world who might not have access to the same financial services that some of us do.

[00:04:53.64] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s a very interesting point. Uh let’s say a little more about how this can be liberalizing for a lot of folks, a lot of parts of the world where banking infrastructure is not something they take for common or, or financial infrastructure broader than just banking is not, is not something that they take for granted the way those of us in the, in the west do.

[00:05:43.04] spk_0:
Yeah, I think there’s two sides that really is for many of us in North America, we have easy access to banking services and um but even in the states, more than 25% of people are unbanked, they don’t have access to that. And when you look around the world, those rates are even worse and so many people just operate in a cash economy, it means they’re locked out of any sort of loan systems or being able to better themselves through more formal financial services and then there’s a whole set of countries where people can’t even trust their national currencies. So if you look at places like Argentina, Iraq Venezuela, sorry Iran where inflation is astronomical Even right now in Canada, inflation is more than 4.5%. But if you look at Venezuela in 2018, their inflation rate was hundreds of millions of

[00:06:08.39] spk_1:
was not more hundreds of millions or billions of percent. Yeah,

[00:06:53.04] spk_0:
it was wild. And so you know if you can imagine your life savings disappearing overnight simply because the government is printing too much money or isn’t a good custodian of the national financial system. That’s the reality for a lot of people. And so I think when I think about Bitcoin more than anything, it’s not. Its goal is not to replace national currencies. Its goal is to provide people with choice so that you know, if they’re really happy with the currency their government is providing, they can certainly use that. But if they don’t have access to it, they don’t have access to banks or they don’t trust their government to do a good job of managing their money. They have another option. And that’s what for me is so exciting is it’s this global permission list system where anybody can take part um and use it to fundamentally change their lives.

[00:07:10.44] spk_1:
So Jason is it is it as simple as just needing an internet connection for anyone in the world to to participate in in cryptocurrencies?

[00:07:12.44] spk_2:
Yeah, I mean that’s pretty much the foundational building block that you know, if you have access to an internet connection and you can download, you know, the uh you know, there’s a few different approaches of accepting Cryptocurrency. But yeah, it starts with an internet connection in terms of getting getting access to that that wider network for sure.

[00:08:05.44] spk_1:
Okay. Um uh the uh I did a quick search of just comparing the us and Canada and adoption rates are much higher in uh in Canada than than in the us. I found like 13% of Americans Have bought or traded Cryptocurrency but it’s it’s like 30% of Canadians. So much much wider adoption for our well for your country, for our neighbors here, for me, for our neighbors in the north, for for your country, for the two of you, any any explanation as to why it might be 30% in Canada vs just 13 in the us.

[00:08:09.94] spk_0:
I think what might be Oh sorry, go ahead.

[00:08:12.24] spk_2:
Go ahead. And

[00:08:12.63] spk_1:

[00:08:48.84] spk_0:
think what’s even more exciting really than comparing the United States and Canada is looking where it’s growing globally. You know, some of the greatest adoption rates are in places like Nigeria or South east Asia. Um and that’s really demonstrative of, you know, when you have locations that maybe aren’t providing the financial services that we have in north America, the rates are exploding um from a Canadian perspective, I know people are really keen to explore new technologies and we also have a massive immigrant population that wants to send money back home. Um so trying to find mechanisms that enabled them to do that without paying fees of 8-12% through Western Union. The coin is a really great option for a lot of those people.

[00:09:28.14] spk_1:
Mm hmm. Alright. Uh now and I was, I chose you but you didn’t answer. You didn’t answer the question. So I’m gonna try Jason although it was anarchist. Uh that is that the degree in anarchy. I knew it. Um what is what we call it? A strategic disruption. Alright. The anarchy degree or certification. So uh, Jason any, any, do you have any insight into why so much more widely adopted in Canada than the U. S. Not that what I said was not valuable. I, I appreciate what’s happening in *** et cetera. But I just wanted to bring it, I don’t want to try to bring back to to the north America here.

[00:12:01.94] spk_2:
Yeah. In terms of adoption rates like what I found over the years is that, you know, when, when tech companies in the past have been looking for like pilot areas that I, I know that Canada has stood out as being, you know, the place where, you know, um, initial kind of rollouts or pilots that have happened. So, you know, when I know that when, you know, folks are testing out like new apps, you know, for their organizations, it’s a multinational organization, it’ll tend like what I’ve observed is that it has tended to be uh tested in Canada first and I, I imagine, you know, that may reflect, you know, that it’s a fairly, you know, uh text avenue connected, you know, uh population, but also uh there were some hotspots for Cryptocurrency, you know, in its early days, I mean, ethereum was born out of Toronto battalion, peter in is, you know, Canadian the founder of ethereum and uh there there are several clusters in Canada that, you know, a lot of the initial developments encoding around, you know, Bitcoin and ethereum and subsequent projects uh I think really grew out of that. So I think what we’re seeing in terms of the increased adoption rates is an extension of that where uh you know, not unlike, you know, early silicon Valley where, you know, a lot of, you know, tech development happened there that, you know, for, I think the early 20 tens, um uh Toronto really served as kind of, that, that initial hub in those communities that really got engaged, so no surprise that, you know, subsequent, you know, companies emerged and uh, you know, adoption uh may have been a bit quicker here. Um, but you know, I think that we are seeing that definite dispersion where there are multiple uh you know, crypto hubs that have emerged in the last 10 years for sure. But yeah, I mean Canada is also a wide place of you know being able to send uh send payments um easily and by a practical example and this isn’t particular to Canada, you know specifically, but you know when when working in international context, you know, hearing from, you know developer contacts in the local community that when you’re considering paying developers overseas and all the options that available like Bitcoin is emerging as you know uh when uh when when speaking to folks about you know how they’re managing payments, you know, Bitcoin is often an easier way to pay um developers in other parts of the world than it is going through traditional payment mechanisms um because of that the lesson administration and at times even just the availability where you know trying to pay someone, we’re banking systems are limited, you know, as I mentioned earlier. Uh so I think all these things combined have contributed to higher um you know, Canadian adoption as you pointed out.

[00:12:39.04] spk_1:
Yeah, interesting. All right, thank you. Um so you mentioned ethereum or ether being the the second most popular Cryptocurrency behind Bitcoin, Jason was was Bitcoin originated in in the States or was that was that also in Canada? That’s uh interesting somewhere else. Well no, I’m sorry, it was another country, wasn’t it? Uh, Bitcoin,

[00:12:47.04] spk_2:
I location wise, I think it’d be best described as um kind of Bitcoin emerged online that, you know, to this day, the, the, the founder, founder or founders of Bitcoin. Um, you know, uh, so in terms of like a specific location, videos created, uh, you know, Bitcoin would have been online and then, you know, Ethiopia, many of the major players who are known were based out of Toronto.

[00:13:34.64] spk_1:
Right, okay, okay, that’s right. You say in the book that the founders of Bitcoin are still unknown to us. Right, okay. All right. Um, and with some trepidation go back to you. Uh, so since I made fun of this, tell me about what a certificate and strategic disruption is. What is that? I

[00:14:48.64] spk_0:
think the key element about it is it helps you develop a mindset about how to think about moving forward with your organization or your company, where you try to essentially disrupt yourself. And that’s why companies like Apple were so successful is, you know, they had a product and a product that worked, they could have just, you know, kept producing that same product for many years until some other company came by and beat them out and the company would go under, but instead of waiting for someone else to come out with a better product, like she said, hey, we’re going to actually cannibalize our own offering. We’re going to make a better product. So you know, we’re not going to just make the ipod, We’re now gonna make the iphone, Um, and our customers are gonna buy that instead. And so they were constantly creating new and imaginative things and changing the lives of their customers and so strategic destruction is really that. And you can apply the same type of mentality in the nonprofit sector and say, listen, you know, we’ve got a pretty good fundraising program. We’ve got major gifts that come in. We’ve got direct mail that goes out and um, we can sit here for 20 more years and raise money this way. But the nonprofits that are going to do the best in the long run are the ones that really look at their program and say, hey, let’s, let’s actually shake up the way that we’re doing things. Let’s try some really new and innovative stuff. Some of it will fail. Some of it will succeed spectacularly. And that’s actually gonna help us future proof the organization, um, and help us be, you know, essentially a stronger longer lasting organization moving forward.

[00:17:06.64] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Communications. It’s in their name. So they don’t only do the public relations and the media work that I’ve talked a lot about communications is so much more vast than that. So think about documents, documents you used to communicate case studies, your annual report, white papers turn to, can create these documents for you. They’ve got a journalism background, a writing background. They know how to understand your, your tone, your core messages and how to bring those out in your written documents. So you got this content that needs to be created and it’s not getting done. You need help think about turn to because your story is their mission there at turn hyphen two dot C. O. Now back to Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. Let’s uh, let’s, let’s bring it back to Cryptocurrency and north America. Give us give folks some motivation uh, in terms of raw numbers and potential growth. Uh, so we can help allay fears because you know, aside from it being a new technology, you know, lots of folks get the, uh, pay me $2500 in the US in Bitcoin or else I’ll release these bad things about you on the internet, you know, and I’ll share your contacts with their, you know, etcetera. So there’s some that contributes to some of the fears, these, uh, these um, uh, you know, email scams. So help help allay some fear with some hard numbers about where crypto is and where Bitcoin is maybe specifically and about the future.

[00:19:00.64] spk_0:
Yeah, I think the best numbers I can help relay are really numbers around donations that have already happened. And so you know, last year, the talent veteran who is the founder of ethereum, He gave a billion dollars to Covid relief, a billion with a b. So tell me about any other billion dollar donations that you heard about last year, you know, in any country around the world. And so, and that’s just, that’s, you know, it’s not the only one we had. The Pineapple Fund gave away $55 million borders Australia just got a $35 million dollar gift last week. Um, so the numbers that I really want to convey our, that, you know, there’s a community of crypto donors that are waiting to make these gifts that have just enormous amounts of money and a real passion for changing the world. That’s why they got into crypto because they want to make a difference. And so now they’ve got all this money and they’re trying to find organizations that they can actually give this money to. And right now that’s, that’s a challenge. Like right now there’s some incredible organizations accepting. But in order to find charities that are accepting crypto, most donors will google, they say which charities accept Cryptocurrency and then they pick one off the list. And so there’s this amazing opportunity for charities that are out there are nonprofits to actually uh, connect with this donor group that’s really being ignored by most of the community and really make deep relationships with them because they’re very different from traditional donor groups, how they like to give, what interests them, that type of thing. But the potential for their giving is just astronomical and the potential to create change together. Um, is what really gets me excited

[00:19:02.91] spk_1:
about cryptocurrencies

[00:19:04.01] spk_0:
in the space.

[00:19:30.44] spk_1:
Yeah. At the end of every chapter, you have a little call out box about a donation, a big number donation that was made in Cryptocurrency. Um, but yet the penetration rate, I think in the States, there’s only three or 4% of charities only are accepting, uh, Cryptocurrency donations. Uh, and some of them big ones that you name our United Way Red Cross. Do you want to, do you want to shout out a couple in, uh, in Canada that are accepting.

[00:20:58.14] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean pathways to education of course, which is Jason’s organization was one of the first war child has been accepting for a long time. We have organizations like the Mississauga Food Bank, which is a, you know, a major site pita United Way up north as well as accepting. So it’s not the case that there aren’t, you know, well recognized organizations with good brands and, and that are well trusted. There are many names. Um, I think what sort of holding some organizations back is just, is education, You know, we’re at the stage where Bitcoin can be a little bit scary. Um, people don’t necessarily feel comfortable, They’re not sure whether it’s gonna be worth it. Um, and, and that’s really just a small hump to get over, you know, you can watch a lot of great videos online to learn about it. You can, you know, get the book that Jace and I put together, which is specifically written for fundraisers who don’t know anything about crypto and want to get started. Um, but more than anything, the best way to kind of get excited and start learning about cryptocurrencies and is just to buy some And you don’t have to go out and buy, you know, a $10,000 worth or anything just by a dollar’s worth of Bitcoin. Um, think of it as, you know, investing in evening of your time and learning something new and fun. Um, and that will really help you understand, you know, how it works, what it’s like, what you could do with it. Um, and uh, it’s a great way to get your foot in the door.

[00:21:29.44] spk_1:
Yeah, and Jason you in the book, you to recommend that as also establishing credibility with the crypto donor community is buying some, buying some on your own even before your organization has a, has a mechanism has set it up so that you’re not, you’re not just testing your, your own organizations, uh, infrastructure for accepting these gifts, we’ll get to that, but just buying and buying some on your own sounds like gives credibility to you, gives you credibility among the donor community

[00:23:52.64] spk_2:
for sure, and I think that many who are involved in the Cryptocurrency community, You know, I think it goes to really, how do you build that deeper relationship and have a conversation with folks that it’s it’s not just, you know, solely talking about, you know, the, you know, yes, there’s a donation part, but it’s also, you know, I think, you know, being able to speak knowledgeably about it, um, and, you know, as as people are involved in it and interested, you know, it, um, showing up in the communities as well. And I mean, that that that’s another kind of tactic that, you know, we do mentioned, you know, in the book and, you know, have seen used to to get the fact that, you know, if if you’re going to engage, you know, communities of donors that are very interested in, you know, something that they have self identified that, you know, before folks get into it. You know, folks typically, you know, do a lot of research and um, and you know, form, you know, uh, in person communities are online communities around it and just showing up in those spaces and being like, yeah, you know, I’m often, what I found over the years is that, you know, when participating in, you know, those Cryptocurrency spaces and everyone’s doing introductions, it was a few years before I was, you know, for a long time, you know, was the only charity in the space of reasons like, hi, you know, I work for a charity. So what brings you here and immediately there’s a way to connect over that and focus get really interesting. It was a few years before a second charity arrived. And you know, that was an indication to me that, you know that this was growing in awareness and such. But you know, I think that having that background of even having purchased a small amount, you know, gives that it gives that experience and credibility around, you know, it’s not just you know, saying, hey, you know, uh can you make a donation? Okay thanks, bye. It’s you know, how do you cultivate that longer term relationship where we’re part of something bigger here? Like there there’s um Cryptocurrency, you know, emerging as uh as a new asset class as a way to facilitate transactions that, you know, uh bigger, bigger possibilities. And in terms of, you know what we’re seeing with um uh with the ways that people are transacting, interacting, you know, uh, N. F. T. S around the corner. We haven’t touched on that yet, but it’s uh it gives more surface area for to connect with people on and you know, I think that, you know that one building a relationship, you know, having having more of those commonalities is also important.

[00:24:41.14] spk_1:
So, and mentioned the the fact that a lot of lot of crypto donors now are just Googling, you know, where can I make a crypto donation, but we wouldn’t expect that to continue as the penetration rate becomes higher among charities. Mean, so it is going to be building relationships and, and eventually it’ll become just another way of making a gift from folks that know, you, you know, like, like writing a check or transferring stock, eventually they’ll be the world will be just, you know, it won’t be, where do I make a donation by, through crypto?

[00:25:03.94] spk_0:
It’s no different really than, you know, when charity started adopting online donation platforms and, you know, website donation forms in the early days, there weren’t that many that had them and people wanted to use their credit card to donate online would have to figure out which charities made that possibility. But today, no charity would ever think of not having an online form. And so really it’s just, it’s just a timing thing, we’re just still in the early days and very exciting days. And because of that, there’s an incredible opportunity for the organizations that do get on on board early

[00:26:20.14] spk_2:
and, and, and to that point, like, I I think that, you know, when, when we think about, you know, early days when there were opportunities to donate online that, you know, I think there was a period in which organizations would have, you know, um competed on, you know, features that even just having the ability to accept credit cards online would have set you apart and, you know, as more people, you know, adopt online credit card payments, then you have to, um, you know, compete on a different kind of, uh, on like service provision. So, you know, the, the ease for which someone can make it right. And you know, I think we’re seeing that similar transition where, you know, right now, it’s still that, that phase where it’s like, okay, you know, does someone accept it? Yes or no? And that, you know, as that, um, as that number increases, then it’s going to be a different proposition where it’s like, alright, who, who does it with the most ease or who provides that additional added experience? That is, you know, absolutely fantastic. Um, and you know, as we look into, you know, how, um, how folks are engaging. Like, you know, it is there a future in which, you know, folks, you know, have some sort of representation on, you know, the Blockchain that’s like, you know, this certifies that, you know, you have donated to this organization or you know, you, you can unlock, you know, uh, different online, you know, possibilities, you know, through your donation that’s embedded on the Blockchain or opportunities like that. So, you know, I think that that’s kind of a possible feature that, you know, things can move in that direction as well.

[00:27:27.44] spk_1:
Jason, let’s make sure everybody understands the Blockchain. Uh, it took me a good amount of reading and many guests before you or well give myself a break a few guests before you. Maybe not many, uh, you understand what Blockchain is but it’s really it’s really something very simple once I once I once I understood it was simple but it took a little I’m trainable I guess I’m trainable. That that that’s the good news but uh you know so every every Cryptocurrency is on a Blockchain and you the book is a very good primer about all the, about the whole world of Cryptocurrency not just about Blockchain but I found your book to be a good primer use good analogies, I mean simple analogies that are easy to understand. So well let’s make sure everybody understands what a Blockchain is and and why each Cryptocurrency has its own Blockchain. Can you explain that Jason since you just mentioned Blockchain?

[00:29:06.64] spk_2:
Yeah yeah so so when we’re making a transaction you know there there is a record that has kept it and traditionally you know there may be like you know 11 record that is kept but what’s different about a Blockchain is that as a transaction happens on the network uh everyone who is participating in the network keeps a record of um of all the transactions that are happening. So you know the three of us right now that um you know uh tony Jason and that you know if I were to transfer Uh you know $5 you know worth of Bitcoin over to end That the record that has kept. You know imagine all three of us scribbling that because we we witnessed that happening. And so, you know, it’s between, you know, uh someone could claim it’s like, oh you didn’t actually give and you know $5 you gave her three and be like, no, no, wait a minute. Like you had seen that transaction, you had written it down. And so that is kind of a really basic explanation of, you know, what, how the Blockchain operates except instead of three people, imagine that with 30,000 people or more like, you know, just every single person who’s participating, the network keeps their own, you know, extremely detailed ledger of everything that is happening within the network and that that’s, you know, in part what keeps it secure that instead of trusting, you know, one single party that, you know, could, you know, alter, you know, those those records. It’s like you you have the collective that, you know, everyone sees everything that’s happening simultaneously in electronic format.

[00:29:45.94] spk_1:
And you to explain in the book why that’s enormously secure, secure from, from hacking from financial fraud and theft, uh, secure from mistakes. So, you know, listeners, you gotta get the book to get to go into the depth of the security of of the Blockchain. Um All right, so let’s let’s let’s start getting into the nitty gritty of of how to and can you start us off with, I think it’s important to explain what the keys are, the private key and a public key and then we’re going to get into how folks get their own are going to buy and maybe sell their own Cryptocurrency but you started off with the keys and.

[00:31:25.64] spk_0:
Yeah no problem. So if you think about your wallet um that you have in your purse or your back pocket and you store your cash in their Bitcoin uses something called the wallet as well. Um And it’s where you store your Bitcoin but it’s digital. Now if you think about your house, every house has a public address so 123 any street and you can give that address to anybody in the world they can send you a letter. They can you know show up and look in the windows but they can’t actually open the door to your house and take any of your stuff. And so your Bitcoin wallet also has a public address. And what you can do with that public address is give it to anyone that you know wants to send you money and they can send you money and it gets deposited into your wallet. But your wallet also has something called a private key and it’s kind of like the key to the front door of your house. And so if you give that key to anybody um they can open the front door of your house. They can come in and take all your furniture and all your electronics and whether they’re legally allowed to or not they can do it And the same sort of thing applies to your wallet’s private key if you give them that private key, anybody can then open up your wallet, take your Bitcoin and there’s really no recourse. And so, um, essentially what that means is you want to always keep your private key safe, always keep your private key backed up in a number of secure locations. Um, and what’s really nice about that is if you ever have any issues with your wallet, like let’s say you lose your phone or you know, something happens where the company making the wall, it goes under and you’re suddenly like, where’s my money? As long as you have your private key, you will always have access to your money. And so that’s what’s really amazing about it versus say if your bank went under, you might not have access to your money ever again. If Paypal froze your account, you wouldn’t be able to access your money with Bitcoin. As long as you have your private key, you always have access to your money.

[00:33:39.24] spk_1:
Okay. And again, as I said, the book, such simple analogies that the public key is like your address and the private key is like your house key very very, very comprehensible. It’s time for Tony’s take two veterans Day was last week and I was remiss in my show planning for last week’s show. So I don’t want to let it go. Unmentioned. I’m grateful. I’m thankful. I thank the many millions of people who have served our country in the military and also my gratitude to families who have lost folks because of their military service families that made that sacrifice and the military members themselves, that made those sacrifices. I’m thankful to those people as well. And if there’s someone in your family who died in the military, died supporting and defending our nation, I thank you. I had my own service. I was in the Air Force uh Military services is a calling and I I admire those who continue to answer that call. That call to to service duty to our country. Thank you. Thank you. Mhm. That is tony stick to Veterans Day. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for Bitcoin and the future of fundraising and you know, you want to continue. It seems to me like the next step is, or the way you lay it out is the next step is getting a wallet.

[00:34:00.54] spk_0:
Yeah, so there’s lots of different ways to get a wallet. Um There’s most, the most easiest ways just get download a mobile wallet on your phone. Um There’s ones on the web as well and there’s a number of different companies out there now. Um

[00:34:01.66] spk_1:
and just explain what the wallet is for.

[00:35:27.24] spk_0:
Oh yeah, the wall is just restoring your Cryptocurrency, that’s it. So it’s kind of like the wallet you’ve got in your purse or in your back pocket. Um it’s just where you keep your crypto and it enables you to send it to other people. So if you have like Venmo or something like that, it feels a bit like Venmo um you just open it up and you can send your Bitcoin to someone else. The difference is there’s just no centralized company behind it, the way there is with Venmo or Paypal, um so you know, there’s a number of different wallet companies out there, some of them will enable you to hold on to your private key. Like Blockchain dot com is one example of a wallet that I use, that enables you to hold on to your private key. Many of you probably heard of coin base coin base is a little bit different because they actually hold on to your private keys. So it’s probably less secure from that perspective because it’s always good to have your key, but if you’re afraid of losing your key, coin base is probably a good option for you. Um So once you pick the wallet, you download it onto your phone um and then you can use an exchange to actually buy Cryptocurrency. So typically you would either connect your bank account or use a credit card um and just trade some of your usd or eur Canadian dollars for us northern folks and they’ll give you something corny return kind of the same way, like if you were going on vacation to Mexico, you would take your usd to an exchange booth at the airport and they would just trade you some usd for mexican pesos here. You’re going to get usd and get some Bitcoin back.

[00:35:34.14] spk_1:
So and if it’s a, if it’s a wallet like coin base, you said they hold your private key, you can also hold your private key. I mean like they can’t have it and you have it.

[00:36:17.53] spk_0:
No, because at the end of the day it’s like your house key. You know, if two people have a copy of the house key and all of a sudden the contents of the house are gone. Who stole them? You don’t know, you fundamentally need to have, you know, one person that, that’s responsible for the contents of the wallet and that’s either gonna be you as an individual or the company will take on that responsibility for you. Which has its pros and cons. Um, and so yeah, for a lot of people that’s, that’s a huge plus having someone else manage that responsibility for um, others in the crypto space. It’s really important for them to manage and own their own money.

[00:36:22.73] spk_1:
Can you name any other of the more popular wallets you mentioned Bitcoin dot com coin base

[00:36:29.96] spk_0:
coin bays bread wallet. Um, there’s electra. Um, there’s Jason. What other ones can you throw in there?

[00:36:37.93] spk_2:
I think that that, that covered off all the big ones, the

[00:36:47.23] spk_0:
metal pay exodus. Yeah, there’s, there’s a number a number of different options out there for folks to choose from these days, which is great.

[00:36:52.57] spk_1:
Okay. And it’s just a matter of googling right. What what are the top 10 wallets or what what’s a wallet for my, is it is it country specific? Do you need a wallet that works in your country, Jason?

[00:37:21.43] spk_2:
No, it’s uh it’s pretty cross border. So you know the song is that you can download it from uh you know, your respective app store and it works, you know, just uh you know, making sure that you’re finding a reputable wallet that you know has solid reviews and but you know, there’s uh no country specificity aside from, you know, uh if it is attached to a certain provider, a company that accepts a certain currency. So I know that there are some wallets um on the international side that are particular for um deposits, that you know, if uh if you want to deposit in a certain currency, then that may be the only kind of particular about it. But otherwise, you know, it’s pretty uh pretty universal.

[00:38:08.22] spk_1:
Okay? You make the security point in the book about not keeping your private key on your phone. But you both have mentioned the phone and using a phone app, but you’re supposed to just write your private key down and keep it somewhere secure. Like uh I get like a safe deposit box or something.

[00:38:44.82] spk_0:
Yeah, safe deposit box is a great spot safe in your house somewhere where you’re keeping really important documents. The way to think about it is you know that key will fundamentally open access to all the money in your wallet. So if you had $500 in cash where would you store that? Would you store it in your desk drawer? Would you store it in your bedside table? Probably not. You probably store it somewhere a little more secure. So based on how much money you have in your wallet, that’s sort of where you want to think about storing your private key if it’s 20 bucks, yeah, maybe put it in your desk if it’s $100,000 you definitely don’t want to leave that lying around.

[00:38:48.12] spk_1:
Um And Jason can you say a little more about exchanges?

[00:40:30.41] spk_2:
Yeah. So in terms of exchanges um you know we talked earlier about, you know while it’s exchanges are where the many of the transactions are around the world, you know take place. And really that it functions you know similar to regular kind of currency exchange or a stock market exchange where you know there’s it establishes a market where there you know those buyers and sellers and so you know um uh as I mentioned earlier, you know if you’re looking to exchange something like us dollars for you know. Bitcoin that um you know you’re you’re usually gonna be working with an exchange in order to uh to do that and on exchanges, you know, depending on on the exchange. You know, they may list a whole bunch of um different currencies, cryptocurrencies, you know, uh So you know, they may list in U. S. Dollars, you know, Canadian dollars, you know, Bitcoin ethereum, you know, if folks are looking at things like, you know, dodge coin um uh and it’s going quite quite extensive. I mean, you know, some of the larger ones are definitely, you know, listing uh many many different cryptocurrencies. Um but you know, if those who are looking for like, you know, the major ones that you don’t have emerged, you know, primarily, you know, Bitcoin in theory. I mean those are pretty standard almost across all exchanges these days. And uh they they the exchanges are really the mechanisms for which um you know, as a release back to two nonprofits that uh you know, after someone does make a donation of of Cryptocurrency um you know, having that exchange, you know, connection or um and some providers, you know, have that baked into their uh their services. That’s how you convert the Cryptocurrency back into, you know, a currency that the uh charity can use, you know, so if you s you know, how do you get that big pointed us dollars, you know, you’ll you’ll be working through an exchange in order to convert that so you can deposit into your bank account as well,

[00:41:05.61] spk_1:
Jason, let’s make something explicit because you know, when we’re recording Bitcoin a single Bitcoin is around $55,000 roughly a single ether is around $3500. Let’s make explicit that you don’t have to spend $55,000 if you want to participate in the in in buying some Bitcoin.

[00:41:08.31] spk_2:
No, absolutely not. So you know the uh it goes up to eight decimal places and I think that that’s something that is uh that’s helpful to to be aware of. So you know it is possible to buy like you know 0.00000 won worth of Bitcoin or ethereum. So um you know they’re uh definitely do not have to participate entire Bitcoin or entire. Either in order to participate in the in the ecosystem.

[00:42:15.20] spk_1:
Okay. And so you have in the title of your book you you you you you say Bitcoin but non profits could be accepting any of the any of the coins that you mentioned. But does it become so when you when you stray from Bitcoin and ether which are the two most popular, are you are you taking a greater risk if you get into like stellar and you mentioned dodge coin and by finance does it become riskier for for you personally if you’re doing your your experimental purchase and your credibility building purchases or or for your non profit if you’re accepting those other less popular like all the old coins.

[00:44:43.99] spk_2:
Mm it’s similar to I would say like you know in kind donations or stock donations that charities would ordinarily receive. And so you know, I think that when considering Cryptocurrency donations, like the vast majority of them are being transacted in Bitcoin followed by either in that order. However, when looking at all the coins, you know, what’s worth kind of thinking about is you know, imagine a prospective donor who you know may have, you know, picked up Dodge coin when it was valued at 0.0001, you know, sense and held onto it. And you know, now I think the last I checked it was like 26/27. And so you know what with regards to risk, I think it’s more helpful to assess like, you know what what’s the conversation that’s being had. You know, is someone approaching your organization with, you know, uh a donation was like, hey I like to contribute, you know, 100 $100,000 worth of dodge coin. You know, generally speaking, I would hope that, you know, a charity that is approached with that kind of um offer. You know, it’s okay, let’s, you know, let’s find an exchange that that will, you know, help us convert, you know that that amount of dodge coin, you know, into uh into U. S. Dollars to allow us to to accept it. And and so um, you know, I think it really depends on the audience. Um and so you know I think that’s what drove some of the early adoption where, you know, as Bitcoin started, you know, rising in price, you know, more offers of donations were emerging and you know, I think that you will see, um, you know, similarly with the old coins that are out there that, you know, definitely for folks who have gotten in early on some of the old coins and you know, um, it, I think it still remains to be seen which ones will, will take off. You know, we’ve already seen, you know, the emergency, you know, Bitcoin and ether. But you know, five years from now. You know, who, who knows, you know what, maybe up there. And so, um, what I have observed is that many of the exchanges are responding accordingly as well. So as as a, uh, all coins or other cryptocurrencies are taking off. You know, they get added to exchanges, which does make it easier and simpler for, um, for organizations to uh, to exchange and transact in that. So, um, you know, there, there have, there have been instances actually of folks donating, uh, you know, all queens, I think dodge coin, you know, definitely has a lot of fun stories about how, uh, how supporters have, uh, have donated their, um, their, their rapidly rising uh, currency.

[00:45:49.99] spk_1:
Yeah. Because you know, like you’re saying dodge coin, someone could have bought it for uh, tens of thousands of a penny. And at one point, I think it went up to like 60 cents or 65 cents in value. So if someone had spent like $100 or even a foul, all the more of 200 or 500 or $1000 buying millions of shares and then the price went up to 60 cents. You know, they’ve got, they’ve got a lot of money in dodge coin all of a sudden and if they then converted it to dollars Canadian or us, uh, they’ve got a lot of money potentially to give. And, and the, the book points out a lot of folks who are very, very generous with their, with their Cryptocurrency windfalls,

[00:46:34.98] spk_0:
Jason correct me if I’m getting the numbers wrong, but if something approximately where if you had, you know, invested $100 in ether at its launch, you’d have over a million dollars today for $2 million dollars today. Like it didn’t take a lot at the beginning. If you were really passionate about this project, you put a little bit of money in um, to suddenly have this astronomical wealth that would be almost impossible to generate in any other way in our society. And so it’s, it’s really what you end up getting is fairly ordinary people, you know, that came from ordinary means that that now have this wealth that, you know, they’re not interested in buying gold plated sneakers, you know, they want to create change and that’s where the nonprofit sector can really help them do that.

[00:47:23.18] spk_1:
And let’s stay with you and move to the organizational level Now. Let’s talk something about getting, getting buy in uh, in the book. You make the point that you’re not even sure the board should be approving this, they shouldn’t be involved. It’s more like, should we start accepting credit cards? You know? Uh, so it’s more um, asking for support rather than permission. But let’s talk about, you know, Ceo by in or maybe vice president of development by in uh, what are some of the reasons you might you as a crypto advocate in your organization? Might might start putting forward for why your organization should get into this. So

[00:49:16.07] spk_0:
the reason that I used when I was convincing my Ceo back in 2014 was I said, look, you know, it’s really what we can do is accept it, we can sell it immediately. There’s no fluctuation, there’s no currency risk, anything like that. And fundamentally that’s no different than accepting a stock. Like we already accept stocks and other securities. So if we do exactly the same treatment as we do with stocks, there’s really no risk to the organization and I think this day and age, there’s no brand risk, there’s, there’s no another stigma that used to exist around Bitcoin is really not there anymore. We’re seeing it adopted by not only charities, but major organizations and companies Microsoft, IBM, all kinds of different companies are heavily involved in cryptocurrencies. So I think that’s, that’s the key one is saying, okay, we already do this with another volatile asset on the stock market. Here’s another opportunity where we can essentially bring in A whole new set of young donors. And I think that’s probably my favorite argument for Cryptocurrency is most of the donors and most of that community are between the ages of 24 and 40. Um, and so if you’re really looking to bring on a whole new set of the younger generation of donors, this is a great way to do it. And you won’t be cannibalizing any of your other activities. You’ll have this whole new set of donors with no risk. Um, and for any organization that fundamentally says, hey, we want to be innovative. We want to be new here is a great way that you can do that. That is not only exciting and innovative, but it’s also a revenue driver. And so it’s pretty hard to say no to something where you say, okay, you know, we’re gonna, we’re gonna give this a try. It’s going to cost us essentially nothing to set up. We can set it up over the course of the week. There’s no risk and it might make us some money and bring in new donors to me. That’s an absolute hell, yes.

[00:49:56.87] spk_1:
Okay. There was like four or 5 very good reasons why, you know innovate, prepare for the future, expose yourself to do constituents. Uh, it’s becoming mainstream. There’s no stigma. Um, and and help you raise more money just in a different format. Um, let’s just make explicit. And is it is it your your recommendation that non profits would sell their their Cryptocurrency right away as you would with stock or what, what is your recommendation for? What to do with a crypto currency gift once you have received it,

[00:51:17.86] spk_0:
I wouldn’t recommend it. But that’s my risk tolerance. And so what’s really most important is to look at, like, what is the risk tolerance of your organization? You know, And I think, um, every organization should really sit down and say, okay, how much cash do we have on the balance sheet? You know, how much money do we have every year to play with? And what percentage of that Are we willing to put in a high risk investment? So maybe we decide that as an organization, we want 99% of our money that we raised to be there at the end of the year, and that’s totally fine. Um, but take that 1% and hold it in a Cryptocurrency and see what happens. Um, and say, look, this is a microscopic risk that we’re going to take for the potential upside of making a lot of money. Um, or maybe your organization might be a little more risk friendly. You say, look, we’re gonna we’re gonna have safe, secure investments or just keep our money in cash for 75% of what we bring in 10% we’re going to put in, you know, uh index funds with the stock market and the rest, we’re going to put in Cryptocurrency something a little bit higher risk, like I think really at the end of the day it’s not so much, you know, should you sell it or not, it’s how much of your portfolio are you putting in high risk versus low risk assets? And I think the thing to keep in mind this day and age is with inflation, where it is putting your money in cash is not safe, You’re losing money every year by holding that money in cash. So if you’re trying to maintain the amount of money that you have by the end of the year, you need to be doing something with it. So is that something high risk, low risk, what percentage is it? Um That’s up to the organization to decide. But I would really recommend that every organization actually take a critical look at what they’re doing with their money um and reserve at least a tiny portion of that to take a look at holding cryptocurrencies for the longer term.

[00:51:49.66] spk_1:
And the reason you say you’re losing money if you’re holding cash is because of inflation.

[00:51:53.89] spk_0:
Absolutely, yeah,

[00:51:55.76] spk_1:
Jason anything you want to add to the organizational policy.

[00:52:00.85] spk_2:
Yeah, I think from just looking over a trend lines, you know to the point that that and made about risk, it’s you know really aligning overall organizational strategy with what organizations looking to achieve and how you know their asset holdings maybe um may reflect that and that their risk tolerance and I think when looking at trends like it was as early as I believe it was 2014 at the time that Canada was looking at digital currency programs and you know, although that program at the time that it was called the mentorship program, you know didn’t proceed, you know uh

[00:52:32.83] spk_1:
I’m sorry Jason who would you say was looking

[00:53:11.45] spk_2:
at? I’m sorry the Canadian government or the Bank of Canada was looking at a program called the uh the mint chip program and that was really a Canadian digital currency that was being explored. But now there’s been a resurgence I think just in the past week, you know the G seven group of nations you know agreed upon, you know a set of standards to examine, you know digital currency. So I think when looking at, you know overall trends, you know digital currencies and cryptocurrencies are not if but it’s a when and you know for organizations are preparing for the future, strategically it’s it’s really you know do are by by participating in the ecosystems. Now you’re especially future proofing organization for that future which is going to come of, you know as governments are seriously looking at digital currencies that the same principles that govern you know, how do you treat you know, cryptocurrencies that this is all going in the digital direction and you know that much is evident. And so, um, it’s more of a timing consideration now. It’s, you know, would you like to do it now or later? It’s

[00:54:24.84] spk_1:
coming right. It’s it’s not, it’s not if, but when I think that’s a terrific place to wrap up. You know, there’s, there’s a lot more in the book. There are checklists for how you set this up at your organization. But I wanted to focus on the basics a person venturing into this because with the statistics that that I mentioned, so there’s still 87% of Americans are not involved in crypto and still 70% of Canadians are not involved in crypto. So I want to, I want to overcome that and then move to the organization level. And as I said, the book is a very good primer, lots of easy to understand analogies. The book is Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. A beginner’s guide to Cryptocurrency donations. The co authors are an Connolly at an underscore Connolly and Jason shim at Jason Shim and Jason, thank you very, very much.

[00:54:32.94] spk_0:
Thank you so much, appreciate it.

[00:54:34.68] spk_2:
Thanks tony

[00:55:08.54] spk_1:
pleasure thank you for sharing and and doing it in a simple way next week. Mission uncomfortable. That’s a working title with stew Swinford, that’s not a working name. He’ll he’ll stick if you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech You find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff

[00:55:10.73] spk_2:
shows. Social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman

[00:55:14.50] spk_1:
is our web guy

[00:55:15.65] spk_2:
and this music is by scott. Stein.

[00:55:30.94] spk_1:
Thank you for that. Affirmation. Scotty You with me next week for nonprofit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for May 18, 2018: Blockchain and Bitcoin 101 & Be Data Driven

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Credit & debit card processing by telos. Payment processing is now passive revenue for your org.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:


My Guests:

Sheila Warren: Blockchain and Bitcoin 101

You’ve certainly heard of them. You’re probably confused by them. Let’s straighten it all out. What are these technologies and what do they mean for your nonprofit? Sheila Warren is a knowledgable instructor and makes it easy to understand. She’s with World Economic Forum. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)




Eli Hertz:
 Be Data Driven
What are the reasons to create a data-driven culture in your organization and what challenges will you face? Which tools can help you? Eli Hertz is from United Service Organizations (USO). (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)





Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

View Full Transcript
Transcript for 390_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20180518.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:53:07.428Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2018…05…390_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20180518.mp3.148853057.json
Path to text: transcripts/2018/05/390_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20180518.txt

Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer due to wrap a thie if you said primarily that you missed today’s show blockchain and bitcoin one oh one you’ve certainly heard of them. You’re probably confused by them let’s, straighten it all out. What are these technologies? And what do they mean for your non-profit sheila warren is a knowledgeable instructor and makes it easy to understand she’s with world economic forum that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and be data driven. What are the reasons to create a data driven culture in your organization? And what challenges will you face? Which tools can help you? Eli hurts is from united service organizations uso that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference. I’m tony steak too it’s. Time to make time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant to radio bye weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cpas, dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s here is sheila warren and block, jane and bitcoin welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re coming to you from new orleans, the convention center there. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits my guest is sheila warren. Welcome, sheila. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure. Sheila is head of blockchain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum on dh her workshop topic is started. I’m talking about you like you’re not here. You’re workshop topic is blockchain for non-profits fact versus fiction. Yes. Okay, um i’m gonna tell you this one has been intimidating me a little bit because i and i even did research on this research. My voice is cracking over, not nervous, but it isn’t intimidating because i’ve tried to crack the bitcoin, not blockchain, but the bitcoin topic two years ago at ntc it was not a dedicated topic. It was became a a digression that i created on i regretted it while i was mired in it and i couldn’t get away out gracefully and and we never really talked about you in what? What the heck bitcoin is okay, so since then i’ve done some technology. I’ve done some reading if i describe bitcoin as there’s, no there’s a greater fool. Does that make sense that you mean it doesn’t really have a value other than the hope that someone will buy it after me and therefore increased my value? I mean, is that i think you’re jumping right into the controversy right into the thick of it. I read the wrong article, i think that’s great, i think let’s back out of that. Okay, okay. Go in. Any direction you like? I did some research, but i don’t want to get mired in it. Okay? Bitcoin. Blockchain. All right, why don’t we start since bitcoin was popular before blockchain? Although i know that they are related in one relies on the other. I have that much down. So i think you’re ahead of many knowing that there’s a distinction between the two? Yes. Ok, i do. All right. I’ll just ask you simply, which i tried two years ago. What is bitcoin and how does it relate? Toe non-profit? Yeah, sure. Okay. So i’ll start by saying you know the number one thing i want people to take away anytime i do any kind of speaking is bitcoin and blockchain are not the same thing now they’re equated because bitcoin is built on something that’s called the bitcoin blockchain, so the terminology is quite confusing but the best analogy i can think of is that bitcoin is to block chain as email is to the inter so blockchain is a foundational technology when it is finally really baked into our systems, people will stop talking about it the way we don’t really talk about the internet anymore except we’re being a bit ironic. We talked about applications, right and bitcoin is an application on blockchain. It is the most famous application on blockchain. It was the first application on blockchain. Bitcoin blockchain was built for bitcoin. So be like if the internet was built for email, you could do other things. But it would be this equations were trying to do is teo that of course let’s tease it apart. These are a lot of other things you could do with a block to that have nothing to do with bitcoin. And even if bitcoin were to completely fail and go away. There would still be exactly the way it will be an internet without email. Okay, let’s, just before we get to the blockchain value on its transparency, etcetera, let’s just flush out the big going a little more so i think non-profit think of it because it’s impossible fund-raising right? I mean, it’s, possible revenue source. Yeah, donors could give gives to you and there have been enormously large gift in the press. Yeah, of bitcoin two non-profits so, yeah, i agree. Okay, so let’s dive into a little green deeper into bitcoin. Yeah, so i was wrong. So i was that was something controversial. I said that it doesn’t have intrinsic value. Well, i mean, i think it has doesn’t have intrinsic value. I mean, bitcoin itself that’s a big debate. I mean, people, some people argue absolutely has intrinsic value because it’s filling a gap in a way that nothing else can really fill the gaps. Some people argue it has absolutely no intrinsic value. It’s all just like, basically hyped value in market value. Like whatever the pr around and i think that’s, right? But that that’s arguably no different than many. Early stage, you know, cos right, like, when you think about equity in an early stage company doesn’t have value of tv, you know, so it’s not that different. So i think to me what i find interesting or kind of mildly amusing at times is like the idea. This is like this brand new distinction, right? We kind of have this model already. It’s called early stage equity grantwriting mean, like those might be paper and worth nothing. They might be worth a ton of money you don’t really know. And to be honest, like your kind of gambling when you buy a digital currency, you know, you should have written the article that i read well, of course you know, you should get them. I not that i should have found your articles. I didn’t know you when i was doing this. Well, i wasn’t in this case two years ago. I just entered the space two years ago, but my research is more recent durney written articles way have something coming out actually, next week on april nineteenth, we’re doing a launch of what we’re calling a blocked a decision making, took it about blockchain and really trying to make it very accessible to the layperson, not in terms of what is it? But is it valuable to you? Is that we’re gonna find that in the world economic forum. Sightly ok, ok, good. Look for that if you want to know more about this, okay. Back-up so let the bitcoin all right? Backing out of the controversy part of it people could give you get absolutely, yeah, just the way they used to get. Yes, you make some very good analogies up early stage equity interests. That would be a challenge for non-profits to deal with. Exactly. Okay, and now we’ve overcome that at some point, real property was hard to deal with, like getting real estate starts thinking the new newest iteration of that. But it’s really no different. Don’t be scared. Don’t be scared. You want to know how to receive it? Receiving bitcoin is actually not that hard. You got a coin bait. I mean, this is one example, but what the easiest example probably is you go to coin base, you get a receipt on lee wallet base. Coin base is a company that has what’s called bitcoin wallets. You get a rece ive on ly bitcoin wallet that lives in the ability to receive bitcoin, converted into fiat currency and move on with your day. You can’t buy bitcoin with that wallet, but it’s a pretty easy mechanism. We’re getting you and their other competitors as well. There’s a kind of ah a cottage industry, if you will, in this kind of thing, okay, you receive only while it will be sufficient. And then how will you convert that to its done that’s? All worker magically on the back end, right? You kind of pick your currency usually it’s usd. And then you just they do the conversion for you at the current rate and then you move it out. Now you’re still accepting whatever the current rate is, you might decide you want to hold it longer and want to play the market. It exactly. But it’s like it’s no different for foreign currency. But the cashing out of it is just another it’s. Just a different call. The defense called a wallet, which isn’t you know, i think a very accurate term actually ways we have one of those wallets that enables you to receive this particular kind of currency and then you just decide when you want to cash it out. You move on with your job. These doesn’t want to do he’s well known icons, wallets, you know, it helps. It helps those of us who were trying to get our way in. Well, well, i put my money in my wallet, right? So i’ll just get my bitcoin in my virtual wall. Exactly. Okay, what’s, the what’s, the one you you name, that we could go to base one base dot com and there are others are ok, but you can start there. And it’s. Very simple. Okay. That’s, how to receive bitcoin gift for your non-profit thank you, strickler. You’ve been doing this a while. You’ve been talking to a lot of deal fights. Clearly it’s my my fair parts of my job. Okay, excellent it’s. Time for a break. Pursuing the art and science of acquisition is one of their content papers acquiring new donors. Is it part of your summer planning, perhaps, or keeping your prospect pipeline full is on your mind so you keep revenue robust? How is revenue? If you’re thinking about acquisition? Get the paper. The art and science of acquisition it’s on the listener landing page. Tony dot m a slash pursuant radio now back to block chain and bitcoin one oh, one now let’s, go to blockchain technology. Okay, now that we understand that bitcoin is but one one channel it’s built on built on a blockchain technology. Okay, how would you describe blockchain technology? Yeah. So i like to use the example. Elect yousa thank you. Tell me, but it seems to worry working for so if you and i were teo, i would buy something from you. Whatever it was, then we might decide. Okay? There are two options when we could just we don’t trust each other. Let’s say we contains other cash, marie and i just can’t do it. Whatever dollar bill ten dollar bill you give me the whatever it is and i walk away and we both walk away very happy our transaction is completed. Another way that people do. This is we get our mobile devices and we decided we’re using paypal or venmo are square cash or whatever it is. And we engaged in a transaction and we both again walk away. Satisfied? That transaction is complete. There are five. Parties in the mobile example there’s you, me, your bank, my bank and intermediary, whether that’s, paypal or whatever it is and the reason that you and i are confident enough to walk away from the transaction feeling it’s completed is because we trust those three intervening parties. We trust that they’re goingto all suspect effectively and sufficiently debit my account and credit your account the right amount of money, and we don’t have to really pay attention to that, right? But you can imagine, and this is hypothetical in our case and sort of the western united states largely, but not everywhere. You can imagine a world in which i don’t have access to a bank account or you don’t or both of us don’t. There is no intermediary that’s going to be trusted any matter is easily hacked whatever is for whatever reason we have no trust in this system and we want to exchange something that’s analogous to cash bitcoin additional currency. Is that anil? It is basically the internet analog of my handing you cash there is no meaningful intermediate is no centralized intermediary that’s mediating that transaction for us we’re able to peer-to-peer exchange that value so that is the beauty, if you will, of digital currency, right? And what it provides the marketplace that doesn’t currently otherwise exist except for in paper. Ok, how does blockchain is what enables that happen? So what’s happening this magical middle? I’m not actually hand i’m not like brain sending you something, right? There’s something happening in here what’s happening in here is blockchain is being deployed essentially i mean it’s not technically accurate, but let’s for our sake. What is actually happening? Okay? Rather than me sending something to a central authority and kind of like a chain of central authorities were sending it to a distributed network. So we’re saying what our ways of creating trust? Well, one way creating trust is to trust an intermediary if you don’t have one other way, cretin trust is to make take it totally distributed. So imagine if between us there was a network of a thousand computers not connected to each other independent pseudonymous so no one knows how anyone else is right at the exact same time they’re creating simultaneous this is again not totally accurate, but likely to be a simultaneous record of our exchange, they’re indicating i opened up my digital wallet i released, you know, one bitcoin, which is money. And you gave you something very valuable in exchange and you receive it. Okay? And in orderto hack that transaction, you would have to convince thousand computers to change their record. That’s why they’re i was going to ask you, why are there a thousand computers? That’s? Why security? Security? So it means you can see it’s far more secure than a central database that could be easily hacked. Right? Like one source of truth can be hacked very easily. A thousand simon, identical sources of truth are very hard to have. So each of these computers houses the same information. We call it a ledger about our transaction. And this is why we call it distributed ledger technology. And we can do this because my voice keeps cracking like i’m fourteen because because the cost of storage is so dim minimus on the margin that we don’t worry about all this redundancy. I mean, we got a thousand computers with the same in-kind large network with the same data, the same ledger, but but that’s because storage is so cheap. It’s not so. Much storage is so cheap because it’s a method of achieving trust. Right? So if you if you either either you you trust something? Are you trust nothing. And if you trust nothing, then a thousand synonomous computers is about is going to get right. Exactly right. Nobody has an incentive to screw up our transaction record incorrectly. And if they do, if one computer in that thousand computers records a different version it’s competition we spotted almost immediately and there’s a check that happens. What happened? What’s going on there, you know, so it’s very, very hard to hack. It makes it quite secure. How about how about hacking it so that the one becomes the accurate transaction and the other nine hundred ninety nine convert to that that’s computational e-giving possible? Yeah, demographically impossible to do that. Okay, okay. Yeah. So that’s the way it works now latto brand not going to get a ring about it has given it was going to kill it. Ok, i don’t want to know what’s interesting about this, right? So this is the premise of the bitcoin blockchain and of what are called public blockchain but interestingly enough, which are getting are the human impulse, i think, is to say what i want to control something, if i want, if i want, if i don’t trust something, i want to control it, right? So you’re getting a lot of explosion of these permission block chains, which means that you control you know who all the computers are. Basically, are you on, lee? Allow computers that you have kind of vetted into the system. When you do that, it becomes more securely it’s gotta be it’s, kind of like counter involvement words, they don’t know. We don’t know which each other dahna that’s very good that’s, right? Okay, so what’s the oh, what i’ll ask it instead of trying to figure it out, what’s the value of this two non-profits yeah, i think there’s a lot of value to this. So one, i think, in the sort of remittance space in terms of programmatic work, there are a lot of places where, you know, charitable work is done it using remittances using kind of the last mile payments, like problems that have existed for a long time, that we’ve been unable to really have a great solution for there’s a huge problem osili is realized recently through a world bank project there’s a huge problem with charities, certainly in certain kinds of region syria, the kinds of places being unbanked like having no access to bank accounts. And in many of these regions, people are literally taking paper cash into these environments and using it to provide services right, hugely problematic, very unsafe, very risking dangerous activity. If you have a digital wallet it’s that much more secure, right? Like it’s, actually that much harder. Teo, steal that hack it. You can prove ownership using encryption, there’s a lot of other things about it that are better. In these situations and that’s sort of the extreme example is the example we’re seeing a lot of different application level there’s, other completely non currency related applications of blockchain, so one that i think is really critical is digital identity. So this is this comes up a lot in the refugee asylum situations you could imagine a family has to flee in the middle of the night. They can’t bring any of their papers with them there’s no proof of who they are, their citizenship, their credentials, whether medical license, whatever it is that medical records, nothing like that. If all of that we’re on a distributed ledger, it would be security’s, not a paper based system. So so when you think about the application layer where you’re moving away from paper and you’re storing something in a secure manner, but not in some sort of like a database of government, where the government could be corrupt and come in and kind of change things up and disavow it, but in a way that really is truly secure that you own the only entrance key too, like that is very powerful to think about, you know there are we. Know that in homeless encampment, united states leaving aside like this war tor in-kind of regions, even in united states, there’s no accurate record of the homeless population because people who are born homeless often don’t have records, right? And then if you die homeless, there’s no account about this son accurately, in a sense, is acknowledges it’s completely off with that population. Imagine if there were a digital ledger that you could create around that now policy on how you do that is very challenging because it’s not an easy problem to solve, but at least there isn’t a different option. Now for three zsystems exactly exactly for preserving it current once you once you are creating and has overcome the challenge of gathering data, there’s a place to preserve it and the persons data is not vulnerable. Exactly loss or hacking. Okay, okay. Um now one of the articles i read talked about the transparency on dh. The example was a donor giving to a program and tracking progress of that program and then tying her funding two milestones that disease through the blockchain technology through some user interface. I guess the fucking can you help people understand? Better than i just did. What i’m talking about is absolutely so i think that we call the supply chain integration and i get a flow is an example of a supply chain supply chain of cash, but their supply chains of all kinds of things, i think it’s easier to understand that if we think about a supply chain and we’ll take mining as an example, because this i think people really understand this, ok, so and one hundred percent with your analogies. Thank you. I’ll make sure we bring it back to the non-profit but you go ahead. Yeah, so when you think about mining and you think about sustainable practices, right, so people don’t want blood diamonds. For example, there is a international process established called kimberley process that evaluates whether or not i don’t recall the kimberley process so it evaluates whether or not a diamond is mind using fair labor, you know, no child labor and all the things that you actually would care about is a consumer of this diamond and using blockchain technology, those diamonds are actually etched. Can you confirm follow using a combination r f i d e a lot of things and block chain a diamond throughout the entire supply chain from the moment its mind and you can you can certify that the mine itself was done with correct worker conditions, and etcetera are fundamental. Whatever it is, you contract that all the way to the refinery, to the manufacturer, to the retailer to thee. Kayman right, so there is certainty that that specific mineral or metal was taken all the way through, and this applies to other kinds of minerals and metals as well. You could imagine something similar that would apply, teo, you know, cotton or coffee or whatever it is, right? Like you could actually certify that a particular bag of coffee beans was crude was was harvested on a plantation that would that met their labor practices and was organic. And, you know, whatever the things are you care about fair trade certified, you could track that of a supply chain, and you could therefore ensure and give meaning to some of these labels that we don’t actually have any proxy for ascertaining are actually true. Great. So this provides more accountability and transparency because you can track the same good throughout an entire system. Now the same thing is true of aid flows. So a dollar originates somewhere. It’s basically just a supply chain all the way through. So any diversion of that money can actually be tracked. It’s a really interesting question. If you do this in digital currency every time digital currencies exchange there is a record created by definition. It’s not like cass. We’re just kind of khun vanished. There’s no ability for to vanish. It’s. Impossible. Great. So if i give it to you and you give it tio some other intermediary and they suddenly diverted to some corrupt whatever it is that that currency can be tracked so you can create accountability system, you can show that it went to pay your staffer that it went teo, you know, a contract to build the well or whatever it is. You can actually show that. And you can report all that ledger back too. The donor exactly. How does the organization interact with block james with the right to say the blockchain? No, there was no. It depends on a blockchain blockchain. And normally just sabelo depends on how dramatically interesting. You okay, what’s the user interface. That thing with donor and really question sametz finally twenty minutes and i got one good question is, is it okay for the donor and the non-profit? How we interact with? Yeah, this’s one of the challenges right now and it’s one of the reasons there isn’t at this gigantic explosion in use cases, even though they’re theoretical use cases everyone agrees on. People are now in the wake up in the state got started on the stage where this is being developed. When you think about the early internet and everybody was kind of risky, prompted was typing things and whatever that was not accessible. Teo fingering people call this business was not it was not accessible to a lot of people, right? But once you had a graphical user interface that came into play, people could pipe in plain english. And you kind of had with me what you had. What you see is what you get. You have these interfaces that were just more intuitive. You know what? You were wearing a realist. I have george in jail, but i wouldn’t wait. I mean that’s that’s. Well, that’s, not jargon. Ok. Fantastic, i presume. Thanks. I don’t agree with you. I’m fearful that you have low expectations of my understanding. Now go. Okay, okay. All right, well, listen, non-profit lady radio listeners or at least at my level, most of all, most people going with us so that those were all huge innovations enabled the explosion and things like email in google and search engines than whatever, until you had that was very hard to imagine being there, steve jobs is times a thousand, right? Exactly, right? So give it a little time and we’re going to get there and before you know it, we’re not going to talk about blocked it anymore. It’s going to be kind of this thing of the past, right? No, one’s talking about consensus mechanisms are proof of work or bubble it not going to care about any of that we’re going to be like, oh, did you check out your whatever the company is it’s the new facebook, but now built on block chain that we all now can’t live without you. So we’re getting there. We’re getting there. Awesome. All right. You really think you have very good analogy is a very good way of explaining this. Thank you. And thank you. We still have a couple minutes left together. So what more do you want to say? Is there another level we can go to? Ise there a story you want to tell about a non-profit using this technology? What? You know, i got love, yeah, i will say a couple of things, i think that, you know, i would really encourage listeners and anyone, you know, to really think beyond the digital currency example, and so we gave some examples of identity and supply chain and others, you know, there’s, interesting work happening around impact and how charity’s khun demonstrate impact using blockchain and kind of tag metrics. Tio tio not necessary to cash, but to sort of the street planning that goes all kinds of different implications for this technology and really the kind of, like joke in the blockchain nerd of which i am one system is to say, like, when you really start thinking about what this can do, you have these, like, three a m wake ups where you think like, oh, my god, like, you could do that, i could do that, i could do that, and you have to kind of dialling back down and we’re not there yet, you know? So one example, i’m really what got me my three a m moment that got me really hyped about this technology was in criminal justice, something i’m very passionate about and thinking about chain of custody of evidence. So thinking about thie way that evidence gets lost things like rape kits or dna evidence or whatever it might be a chain of custody people exam, and i’m thinking more of in other countries were tortured or vanished, get disappeared, kidnapping or not, it is our most of our institutions are exactly so we’re doing a big project anticorruption work in south america, where we’re thinking about government accountability and transparency and how you can actually work around and mitigate corruption, which is i’m the president in many parts of the world, using this technology because of the ability to track and trace, which is really key. So i think that is where the big innovation is gonna happen. It’s already happening and will continue to happen in this space and the implications, i think, for non-profits are quite quite profound the ability to track and trace something or someone is very, very so. Any objects like you had said the diamond is physically etched. Yeah, i mean, it’s gotta be obviously a pretty small, actually. Dankmyer dahna it is. Okay, so but any physical things, physical evidence in a criminal in a criminal case. Oh, it’s, great kids. A bloody glove, as a random example. Okay, very good. Okay. Uh, out. Forever. Forever. Forever. We will never have treyz we won’t have lost evidence. You’ll know if if it is disappeared, we’ll know exactly at what stage is exactly at what stage disappear. There won’t be a guests there’s no ability to hide, right? And you can mark that that security with like, with a geo look, even geo tag it, you know exactly, literally. Exactly where that thing was that the last recorded exchange of it. Okay. So which is really profound when you think about that, we have about a minute left. What do you love about this work? Not not so much. Not so much of the technology. But what do you love about explaining it to people? I think you know, i think it really is. Ah, i don’t think it’s surprising. How intimidating it it it’s a very intimidating technology, in part because there’s so much media attention about it, the volatility, the currency and then bitcoin millionaires and all this kind of billionaires and all this stuff and and you know it, it’s a community that’s really fascinating. Someone just used bitcoin. I asked you to talk about someone just used going to fund every single every single request that was donorsearch shoes dot org’s every single one got funded overnight, a lot of money, and charles rich asked for it. He couldn’t believe that he got it. Well, it’s also crazy because this is like there’s so much money in this that there are people who are they want to press, like the people that really, really have the money security to hired security. Us. What has this like thug element to it in this history of, like illicit actors in nefarious activity, you know kind of things people mean arms were sold using bitcoin, that the fact people were traffic using bitcoin? That is a fact, all right. And the idea that we’ve moved away from that not saying that is it still happening? Because let’s be candid, it is still happening, right? But that’s not the case for which it was really designed, and most people in this space are not interested in that kind of activity when you think about the shift away in the movement opportunity it’s really exciting to get ordinary people call them, like, lay people aware of this at least at a base level, and to not be afraid of it that i find very rewarding, okay? And like, we no longer fear the internet and automobiles exactly where you wanna go both okay? All right. We got every motive. Transportation? All right, sheila warren. Thank you very much. Thank you for the pleasure. You helped enormously. I’m so glad. She’s, the head of blockchain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum once the article it’s coming up that we should look for, it’ll be april nineteenth and it’s called the decision making till can’t it’ll be on our website? Awesome on our twitter my interview with sheila is sponsored my pleasure by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit medio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we need to take a break, wittner. Cps. You need your nine. Ninety done. Right. You need an audit. Start at wagner. Cps dot com. Look at their services for non-profits. Read a few testimonials. Then pick up the phone and talk to partner. Eat huge tomb. I know him. He’s. Been on the show. He’s. A good guy. You explain what you need. He’ll tell you if they can help you. No pressure, he’s. Not that way at all. Talk to him. Wagner. Cpas dot com is the place to start now. Time for tony’s. Take two. Summer is close, it’s. Time to make time for your time away, including offgrid time. I hope you can do this. You need it. We all need offgrid time. No phone, no email. You know offgrid my encouragement video. Is that tony martignetti dot com good link. Dot com. Listen, i’m a safe too. Looked our founder of good link at goodland. Dot com non-profits connect with businesses that advanced their missions. When i want the best connections i listen to non-profit radio like you are safe. Good link it’s a new marketplace where non-profits meat vendors providing products or services? No cost to you as non-profit it’s, your bridge, your connection to the products and services that you need i’m helping them get started see what you think. Check out good link dot com it’s l i n c now time for a lie hurts and be data driven. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc it’s a non-profit technology conference hosted by the non-profit technology network. We’re coming to you from new orleans convention center there. This interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits. And my guest is you. I hurt he’s, the vice president of information technology at united service organizations. Us. So you lie hurts. Welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you. Thanks for having me welcome. My your your subject is becoming a data driven organization. Why should we? Why should read to make better decisions to do our mission better, more efficiently. B a and teo, to be able to have more impact, you’re confident that this changing culture going to bring about all these good outcome? Yes, yes. If you are you okay? It will there be challenges to get there? Yes, there will be. Challenges to get there isn’t a transition necessary, absolutely, but i’m confident that if and when we navigate those those challenges, the getting there enables better decisions, so we’re able to do our mission more effectively and that’s really what it’s all about, okay, and this does not just apply in the information technology department knows is you know what? This is organization wide. Oh, absolutely matter of fact, i’m glad you asked that tony, because if it only applied to information technology department, we would never get there that’s not how it’s accomplished the my department is about enabling the tools and technology that air the underpinnings, but really getting there and ineffectiveness is on ly when the business used the lines of business, that of performing the mission are asking the questions that are doing the analysis, they have the context they know the right questions to ask on the story that needs to be told it is absolutely not by-laws malefactor tools just one other piece, that the tools are evolving to enable that the so that it doesn’t take a technical person like it did in the past. The tools are being designed so that anyone khun, step up, use um and ask the right questions to get the answers they need. Okay, are we able to talk about some of those fools later on? Sure. Ifyou’d like tio conversing with them. Okay, you know them. Okay, good. Well, i’m guessing if this is going to be a cultural change, the change is gonna come from the top. So ideally so, the way we’re approaching a tony is both a top down and bottoms up approach both simultaneously kind of come out it from two angles, and we think both are necessary. Neither one by itself would would get us all the way there. We are fortunate have a ceo is very technically driven that understands the has the vision of what it can and should do for the organization to be able to make data driven decisions. However, just mandating it isn’t isn’t going to get us all the way there because the ones that are going to make it work are the ones that are going to be working. The tools are maur bottoms up because they’re they’re day today they have the context, they they have the context for the fund-raising with a marketing or the program delivery there of our constituents, and they have a better sense of the business processes and what all the data means so they can ask those questions if they don’t buy-in and have the right inquisitive mind set dahna we won’t get the answers that we want, they want to know more about what they’re doing and what the outcomes are on. And, you know, what successful was not now, of course, you’re coming at it from the uso perspective, but hard now they’re our listeners air over twelve thousand people in small and midsize non-profits sure, so the lessons apply equally, right? You know, nowhere and what i’ve said so far. Did i talk about the mission of us? Owe every single non-profit has a mission to deliver some service or product, mostly a service, for the benefit of of their their benefactors, so really it’s about understanding what their mission is and and they can all equally equally gain from increasing their impact, it’s about increasing the impact based on the insights that you have on the data that you’ve collected or can aggregate nowhere and what i just said that i talk about. The uso mission every single non-profit and benefit from it. Okay, i want to make that explicit. I i know it’s true. Otherwise you wouldn’t be here. But i want metoo explicit for our for our listeners. All right, so ah, a lot of this is around empowerment also. Right? So we’re empowering staff to be asking the challenging questions that data can provide answers to. Yeah. Ok right. Are we empowering? Well, empowering is part of it. Yes. That’s a necessary but not sufficient. Okay, so we have to start. You know it has tohave empowerment. They also have to have access so access to the right data stores. And this means breaking down stone by breaking down stovepipes for silos breaking down paradigms of no, this is this is my thing. And then also learning the skill set and the mindset, skill set and mindset. So the skill set to to manipulate tools which, again are being designed to be always there friendly using some of this technology yourself and then and then the mindset is critical as well. Tony is having that inquisitive mind set to what’s what’s really happening here in my fund-raising in my marketing campaign in a program delivery what’s the underlying what’s the activity that’s happened. Who are the players that are impacting it? And what can i or do? I want to learn to make it better. So it’s that inquisitive mind set this is not we won’t get there by what some folks air more accustomed to is generate some report that says, what happened? That’s just reporting that’s the same, you know, something that you can construct and say point to this was thing that happened, this is about in court inquisitor enquiring mind set and interacting with it. So if i’m listening to this and i’m i’m motivated by what you’re saying, but i don’t yet have the top down or the bottom up, or i guess i’m in the bottom or maybe not right in the middle somewhere sure, or might be at the top. We have ceos who listen also how do i get the other end? Or if i’m in neither end, how do we get both ends to buy into this? Yeah, great question. Well, first, we think is start small and show a little benefit and you can do it relatively relatively easily, relatively. Affordably and, you know, for every non-profit every dollar we don’t spend is a dollar that goes to our our mission, and some of the tools are very affordable and show the way do a little pilot hyre we did a proof of concept, the uso first to say, hey, for very few dollars, this is a kind of insights we can generate and here’s iraq without. What do you think? Wow, this is really given tell the story of your your test because i think i think the example will help, okay, listeners understand, you know what? How do you bite off a little bit of this, like, a little a little bit of what? Where do we start? Yeah, absolutely. So we we had, uh we took data from two of our important or two of our sources that support somewhere big, most impactful business processes. One is financial, so that shows a roll up of our fund-raising how we’re doing on revenue, you know, fund-raising and the other is relatively new data set that that we just deployed a system last year for part of our digital transformation, which was collecting usage metrics of our customers, they check into our centers and way made a digital platform that collects the check in and some of that there some of their demographic snoopy ii, obviously and and we have now about six months of here’s how they and when and how they interact with us and what they think of us and what they like. And these are two data sorts one was just talking about the tools, but one was in the great plains data set which many organisations used, which we exported from report into a csp export, relatively simple stuff. And the other was in a sales force back and data set. And what we did is we used a pretty affordable tool for non-profits microsoft power b i it’s okay to talk about product. Certainly. Yes, i want you to. Yeah. Okay. Super yeah. Which is very affordable for a non-profit handup power b i microsoft power b i business business insight. Because this intelligence argast it’s ah it’s in the gardner magic water and for the last two years is one of the top in the b i space non-profit the cost is very affordable there’s a free version as well. And you can experiment the free version. So what we do is we got a little bit of help because if this does require some different mindset, you know, then then folks have been doing one thing for a long time, so we got a partner for a little bit of help to say, okay, help us bill, do some analysis and build some visualizations in a dashboard that shows what what’s happening in these areas, both from financial progress. Oh, and also for our customer usage, we did it in a month or two, just a few dollars, not much product dollars, and we built visualizations and showed it say, hairs here’s, how we’re being used right now, and it was very, very well received. The insights were kind of ah ha moments. So so what i recommend is start with some existing data stores and and sort of identify first what it is you think will be impactful and then showcasing take it around, say, hey, this is some insights. What do you think? And and if it doesn’t get enthusiasm either learned a lesson from it to say what’s more interesting or perk it, move on to something else. Okay. Okay. Test for value early. Yeah. All right. And in a small bit. Yeah. Small piece. Okay, awesome. Ah. All right. So then what? What? What’s, the next step in this you don’t change this culture. So let’s say we get some approval. Okay? This this is pretty stark and i can see some value. Um, otherwise the interview’s over. So we better remove this phone way. We’re not taking the park and move on to something else. Option forget move on. Yeah, what? Where do we go from here now? We with our test results. So where we’re going is an operational pilot and recalled an operation pilot, so because we’re adding a little more funding and setting the setting the goals of a little bit hyre but we’re also not in the same breath, not institutionalizing it yet. So we’re going to expand the number of data stories that we bring in on then here’s the other key, tony, is what we’re also going to do since the product and microsoft power b i again is the one we’re using. It is b is designed so for someone that’s in the line of business, the development department of marketing department, the program delivery, not the geeky tech person it’s not designed for that person is designed so that those that a former that i mentioned can learn how to use it. So we’re rolling out training at the same time, we’re going to take him through here’s how to use the tool and here’s the art of the possible, and let them loose and let them loose on the data, and also let them see, you know, some of the additional products, visualizations and, more importantly, the insight that comes out. We’ll let that run for a while. Say, you know, show us how it’s changed your ability to perform your mission. Okay? Yeah. And where are you in this process? So we finished the proof of concept on we go and let’s see january, late january or february on we look at it for a little bit and were actually just going to start up our operational pilot, which will be a six week effort with some some assistance. We’re gonna start that up in several weeks. So by this summer for april thirtieth. So okay, here a couple weeks away from taking the next step. Will spend about six weeks building it up, and then we’ll look at it for a bit. How do you figure out what what the data is? That is most important for the organization? Well, we’re starting with, you know, the the kp eyes that are most dahna most impactful and most important for insight and that’s a, uh, you know, that’s a that’s, quite frankly, a lift and shift of current reporting. Two more digitised on dh that’s sort of a stepping stone, because these with kp eyes that dahna that air that leadership needs teo, understand where we’re going and where we are, but again that’s ah that’s a stepping stone. So it’s also going to relieve some pain? Because, quite frankly, you know, the other way of doing the reporting takes a lot of time, and a lot of resource is, which is time and resource is to be better well spent by those down the chain of command that have to do all that every organization has that, but instead of we’re goingto automate that enhance it, enhance it, and let me touch another key point because what we can do that can’t be done as effectively as connect the dots across data silos for combined visualizations that tell amore comprehensive story, the whole organization, right, especially the sea level, is interested in that sea level. And we think every yes, but not just to sea level and again that’s a stepping stone, because what comes next and the rial golden ring is ah, and well, we will have accomplished a lot by that intermediate step, which is much more efficient, comprehensive reporting and visualization. But the real golden ring and the next step it is doing predictive analytics and being able, teo asked questions of the data by interacting with him. So there’s a k p i reporting this is the important stuff we need no for how the business is going that’s again, the next step and once it’s all in place and folks get comfortable with it, say, well, i could really ask some questions. You know what i haven’t thought about? Fill in the blank. You know how our current trend is from a predictive analytics perspective, our fund-raising is happening over time or what is the impact if we change these variables? You khun, you could do all of that once. You’re in the platform and uncomfortable. Okay? Got to take a break. Tell us i have a new tell us. Moughniyah lll. Lead quote. Lee elementary school foundation is receiving a monthly donation from tello’s for the credit card processing of a company one of our parents owns is likely the easiest donation source we have ever secured. End quote. A parent’s company. That’s. Brilliant local companies taking credit cards. Do you need more revenue? Get started at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now back to be data driven with eli hurts. Let’s talk about the challenges of doing this. You brought him up earlier. I want to come back to it. Sure. Uh, what what? What should we expect? Yeah, well, there can be some and actually just came from aa good session, where we had this same discussion and with a group full of non-profits and it was it was really it was it was a really wonderful conversation. It became a conversation and of the same topic. And one of the challenges is that one of the non-profits brought up is hey, what if you know your shot in the light on something? That’s? That is kind of a hard story that, you know, has projects bad news where you have been visualized way have start asking questions. We may not always like the answer. You might not like the answer, and what we would suggest is that we shift the focus away from the who, which is can be a tendency if you see something responsible who’s responsible who hasn’t been doing their job who’s been falling short and and shift it more towards the what and what’s the impact on the on the mission than everybody circles around. You know, the conversation about how do we improve the mission based on what we learned, not who’s not been doing their job effective. So it’s changing the conversation based on the insights? Okay, so that that’s one is that the kind of fear three other has changed management? You know, i’ve been doing it this way for a long time, and this is what i was hired to do. So, like many classic change management problems or channel opportunities, it’s about education that can be circumvented with education and finding a few folks that were shown successes with him by doing it a different way with a different tool, shining the light on them and say, hey, this is an early adopter. Look what they were able to dio you could do something similar in your position will help you do that. You mean drawing on the early testing that you did well early? Six it continuing success is its a continual process. Let me give you a specific example. We did the proof of concept way showed the platform the possible everybody, not their head sea level, sweet like that. Others looked at it. Xero but can i do this to answer a question i need to do? And we identified one of those one of those this i really need to tell this toe understand this and tell this story better one just as i’m sure you know, when i tell say, tell the story, it’s obviously not about creating fiction, but it’s about painting the picture what’s going on, and so we identified that person who’s, not technologically savvy didn’t need to be we didn’t create it, so he needed to be that’s the point, and we’re helping him build something so that he can answer that question and expose. That so we could make better decisions. So we built on that success. This is, before we build out the operational pilot way found somebody else who has came to us because they heard about the success, the operational pilot or sort of proof of concept said, hey, i need another answer here. So, you know, we incrementally show successes, leverage some of these early adopters and their successes in trying to bring some skeptics along. Exactly okay, yeah, now the rial on dh so the following we haven’t accomplished yet, tony, i’ll just say that for what i’m about to say, but a study of change management and you’ve probably heard many of the folks you interview talk about it from and one of the best yeah, disciplines. I’ve been through his pro side change management certification encourage it for any non-profit listener is the best three days i’ve ever spent. Tell me again what it is a pro side p r o s c i change management three day certification class and it covers the breath of technology is what one piece of it it’s really about change management? Okay, but if you really but to go get to the next level. So some of things i’ve talked about or some sort of the classic change management techniques what’s, really a strong accelerator is to find a skeptic allowed skeptic on someone who’s yeah, so till happen, you know, if you’re not watching the video, you maybe i can tell i’m laughing. All right? So you probably last on somebody there? Well, i work for myself, but i have in the end, everybody got clients that whatever somebody who’s allowed skeptic, we’ll leave it at that. All right? Yeah, yeah. So every organization sufficient? Yeah. On dh who’s sort of maybe established will say yeah, so they have some credibility in the organization and they’re also established with the way they were used to doing things. If you make that person and advocate, they will amplify the successes to the same degree that they amplified their skepticism. Now that’s the breast, that’s, the it’s dueled brass ring. Yeah, back to your mary-jo exactly, but it’s it’s a it’s a huge accelerate an amplifier so it can be done. But instead of avoiding that skeptic, use um, empathic techniques understand why they’re they’re skeptical. Remember? Well, trying to embrace them train, embrace, understand what they need and then help them. And if they flip and you got maybe a fifty fifty chance i’ll be really but if and when they flip and then the rest the organization, by the way, everybody, when i said that they know who the organization skeptic is, right? Everybody knows so when the organisation sees a skeptic that’s a believer katie bar the doors everybody’s in, so okay. Okay, way exhausted the challenges. Well, one other, you know, is just learning the learning a new approach. It’s a different mindset. So, you know, that’s more, much more the emotional side of the psychological side of change in management. Well, you know, those pieces just address, but there’s also some some, you know, functional skills. Oh, the skills. Yes, you get skillsets the mindset skillsets so i spoke to a willingness to take on new skill and the ability. So it’s it’s a different way of operating it’s about, you know, the science behind data science is about exploring and experimenting and asking questions and telling a story. Eso again, a lot of us, you know, and many parts organizations say, hey, bill, be a report that shows nothing fund-raising how much you know how many impressions were on the website or whatever? How many times are programmers using a report? You know, it’s more of a diagnostic or reporting this is what happened? And they say, here’s, what happened? But what this cannon and get to with a different skill set is ask some questions on dh, interact with it, tio, connect the dots, teo answer answer, tell the story of what’s really going on versus saying what? What happened? Okay, eli, i want to talk about some of the tools that way because we just have a couple minutes left, okay? Uh, tools that can help with this with this process, yeah, yeah. So one i wrote, we use and and we’re having very good success with it is microsoft power b i mentioned and that’s the primary one now the other is, you know, the benefit of it is the tool is it can integrate and interact with the data wherever it is, so you don’t have to create something new, leave it in place and integrated. There are a few, you know, competitors in the place in the in the space. That’s the one we’re getting no success, we’ve put a lot of our operational data and a sales force back end, which we built up for several reasons and integrating it in on dh and again, others and data in place. So those those are some of the primary ones the sales force haven’t add on for this kind of data introspection, they do, they do they call it einstein analytics, einstein yeah, and sales force just recently, we’re recording this in april of twenty eighteen they just recently perp made a purchase of another integration product called mulesoft so they’re going to integrate that product so that in their analytics engine they can pull in other data sources, which is really important fan letters because a lot of systems have been built up as here’s, my tool or data set based on what’s happening in this piece of the process and really to tell the comprehensive picture is about connecting the dots so you won’t be able to pull in from several sources. So salesforce’s getting has that capability and einstein analytics with mulesoft added tio okay, we have just about a minute or so left and i want to ask you what is it? You know, vice president of information technology. Yeah, yeah. What is it you love about the work you do? Oh, great question. Thanks for asking. People don’t think about it. It is a lovable, lovable office toe working, let alone lead. Yeah there’s a little maytag repairman have the successive nobody’s angry, right? Yeah, when i really like about is we’re rolling out capabilities that are that are making a everybody’s every employee’s job better, more effective cut across the hall organise a cross organization and we feel that we can make them more efficient by either the systems where the insights they get that gives lifts to the entire organization. We’re also changing the way we’re we’re interact with our constituents or service members were rolled out a mobile app. Recently go the apple or google play and download the usl app it’s really gratifying to know that weekend engage with our customers in away reach him where they are dahna but really it all rolls back to we can make the mission more effective, and if we can save a dollar while we’re doing it and then as a non-profit we’re serving. Our service members are constituents more effectively and that’s. Gratifying. Are you a vet? I am. Yeah, i am too. Well, thank you for your support. Thank you. You thank me. First what service? I was in the navy about you turning air force air force. Okay. We so we should have a little rivalry going on here. Very friendly, though. Of course. Eli hurts. He’s, the vice president of information technology for united service organizations uso this interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you very much. Thank you. To you know pleasure. Thanks. Thanks. And this is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. Thank you so much for being with us next week. Change agents on your board and more from the non-profit technology conference. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Durney dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Show social media is by susan chavez, and this very cool music is by scott stein. We will be next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Nothing. Cubine hello, this is bruce chamlong, host of the web design and technology coach. Join me and my guests every tuesday from eight to nine pm. As we discussed the latest in web design, social media, marketing, search, engine optimization and technology, we also discussed popular topics, including ward press, making money online, better google rankings and more every month way. Also feature the best unsigned music from around the world right here on talk radio dot n y c. You’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor in santa potentially eight. Tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you into comics, movies and pop culture at large? What about music and tv? Then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dulled, your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com dahna. You’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio dot. You’re listening to the talking alternative network.