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Nonprofit Radio for June 14, 2021: CRM Selection & What To Ask Before Your New Website

My Guests:

Rubin Singh: CRM Selection

As part of our continuing 21NTC coverage, Rubin Singh returns to help you focus on what matters in CRM selection. To keep you safe from a serious misstep, he also shares his thoughts on what else might be the problem, besides your CRM database. Rubin is CEO of One Tenth Consulting.

 

 

 

Stephen Tidmore: What To Ask Before Your New Website

Stephen Tidmore from Mighty Citizen built his first website in 1999, and hasn’t stopped. He shares the questions you need to ask up front, before you embark on a new website project. This is also from 21NTC.

 

 

 

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[00:02:46.34] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. We’re back to regular energy low. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Dyskinesia if you moved me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Non profit partnerships. Our 21 NTC panel reminds you you don’t have to do your work alone. You can increase your exposure by promoting the work of other org’s and even fundraise in partnership with other nonprofits. They’re taylor leak with corporate accountability and Jack Valor at Mall Warwick, donor digital and partnerships with African american churches now that you’re motivated to partner up Look to black churches, Anita lee and Oliver. Richmond help you understand the idiosyncrasies of church culture and how to cultivate a relationship. Anita is from Anita uplifts and Oliver is with Kingdom Partners. This is also from 21 NTC. You see how the show is put together here. It doesn’t just happen. You see this pervasive partnership theme running through which is what makes it pervasive, it’s all, it’s all coordinated. It’s all thought out On Tony’s take two planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome a new sponsor, send in blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue kicking off our partnership theme show here is non profit partnerships. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC the 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C. O. My guests now are tailor leak and Jack Valor Taylor is Digital director at corporate accountability and Jack is senior account executive at Mall Warwick donor. Digital Tell her Jack, welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:02:57.24] spk_1:
Thanks very nice to you. Pleasure

[00:02:58.44] spk_3:
and Taylor, I should say welcome back. Welcome back. Have you a previous uh, previous ntc coverage.

[00:03:05.11] spk_1:
Absolutely.

[00:03:26.44] spk_3:
Your session is what we accomplished together, building new and inclusive non profit partnerships. So who wants to start by just reminding us that we do not have to do our work alone. We can have, we can have help, who would like to start. Okay, fine. I’m gonna pick Jack, you start

[00:04:42.94] spk_4:
or um, so I think that really we came up with this concept because corporate accountability does a lot of great work partnering with a lot of wonderful organizations that have missions that are similar to theirs. Um, and we found that they were able to accomplish not only what they wanted to accomplish in ways that they didn’t have the capacity or resources to do otherwise, but also reach out to organizations that didn’t, you know, have the resources themselves to really boost their own missions and help in ways that they wanted to be able to help facilitate and grow organizations that they really believed in. So we wanted to kind of spread that message and talk through ways that organizations could partner and do things that would really change the world for the better, um, in reach out to each other and in, um, in ways that they might not expect.

[00:04:49.74] spk_3:
And, and taylor you can even, uh, increase your own exposure. The organizations don’t exposure by promoting the work of others.

[00:05:32.44] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the things that really stood out as we were developing this. And one of the reasons we came to this idea was, you know, in our experience, we found that these partnerships aren’t just beneficial for both organizations, sort of as a, as a one plus one, but actually it was, it was adding even more to our work when we partnered with other groups. So for instance, we did a giving Tuesday campaign with, partnered with a group in flint called flint rising. And we found that even though we were basically fundraising and giving half of the gifts that we brought in to flint rising, we were raising more, even giving away half than we had in previous years without a partnership like

[00:05:43.03] spk_3:
that. You for giving away half than you had when you when you were on your own.

[00:05:53.74] spk_1:
Yeah, exactly. So I think it’s sort of a net positive and you know, I think we are doing all we can to reject this idea that there’s sort of a zero sum, right? It’s more of a mindset of spreading the wealth and everybody being able to lift each other

[00:06:19.24] spk_3:
up rising tide, raises all boats or whatever metaphors we want to use. Well, whatever storms can this take that? That’s that’s outstanding example giving Tuesday. What other forms can this take, where you can improve your own outcomes by working with and promoting the work of others?

[00:07:27.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, one other example that we talked about, um, and I think Jack, you had a couple of really good examples from other organizations as well. Um, but we, uh, we also do a lot of work with coalition actions. So that’s sort of more on the on the advocacy and list building side. But this is essentially a tactic where you can start a petition and then invite a whole bunch of other groups to participate with you. Um, and not only is that a way for you and your partners who are working together to drive folks to this petition to grow their email lists, but for us, you know, it’s been, you know, are the organization, I work for corporate accountability. We have some pretty sort of niche, complicated issues. Um, and so this is a way for us not just to sort of like gather a bunch more petition signatures, but also sort of get our analysis and our campaigns and our ideas out there to a bunch more folks by getting other groups to promote petitions that we have developed to their membership as well.

[00:07:43.44] spk_3:
Okay, Cool petition drives Jack. You have, you have examples. I love these. I want, I want folks to realize that there’s a lot of possibilities around partnering and improving your own outcomes.

[00:08:09.94] spk_4:
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, one example that I think worked out really, really well is that, um, an organization that I work with simple virus fund there, a small local organization in the, they work help helping save and protect and restore uh, redwood lands in the santa Cruz Mountains

[00:08:13.76] spk_3:
and say the name of the organization again, just a little slower.

[00:08:17.37] spk_4:
Yeah. Semper environs Fund some

[00:08:20.95] spk_3:
semper environs.

[00:08:32.74] spk_4:
Mhm. Yeah, it’s a latin word that is for redwood trees. Um, it’s very, um, very, very specific. Yeah, exactly. Um,

[00:08:35.71] spk_0:
uh,

[00:09:20.94] spk_4:
so they, um, they partnered at, at the time, in august, there was a big fire in one of their parks, um, wildfire that happened during a time when there were wild fires all over California. And um, it was the very first part that they developed. Um, they partnered with California state parks as well as save the Redwoods League to um, bring together a bunch of donors who were very passionate about that park and wanted to save it and restore it back to its former glory. Um, They were able to raise throughout the entirety of the year, um, A ton more money because of that partnership. Um, they were able to increase their revenue by 152% and their gifts by 98% just through having that partnership with those organizations and spreading the word altogether.

[00:09:43.34] spk_3:
Jack, what do those campaigns look like? Give us the insight is every piece co branded? Does every piece talk about the work of the other and, or, and how the work overlaps? And what does that, what does that look like?

[00:11:01.34] spk_4:
I think, you know, it can be different. And that’s something that, you know, we definitely wanted to talk about when we put this together is that it really depends on how the organizations want to make this work, you have to come together and say, you know, what are we looking for? What do we want to accomplish here and um what do we want to, how do we want to come to the table? You know, do we want everything to be co branded? Like you’re saying, do we want um to just mention one another um in messages or do we want to um just kind of one time mention and then go about, you know, the rest of the campaign as usual. Um So you have to definitely agree upon all of your terms before the partnership even starts. Um So that you know, um you know what your expectations are and then that way no one gets hurt uh in the end so that you’re not not meeting those expectations?

[00:11:04.24] spk_3:
Okay, cool. Is there another example you have?

[00:12:21.34] spk_4:
Uh Yeah, so I think that um Mhm, pull up my notes um with World Animal Protection, which is another organization that I’ve been lucky enough to work with. Um They usually work with sanctuaries in lots of countries around the globe to save abused animals that can no longer live in the wild because they’ve been you know, in captivity um doing lots of terrible jobs or um you know, having lots of um difficult things put upon them. Uh We were able to create a giving Tuesday campaign around specifically raising money for sanctuaries um and the sanctuary campaign, because it um focused on those sanctuaries and on providing animals um direct money for them and for their needs, Brought in 161% increase in gifts and a 230% increase in revenue. Um

[00:12:24.84] spk_3:
And that’s of course that’s after sharing, Right? These numbers are incredible because it’s like over well over 100% increases.

[00:12:51.44] spk_4:
Mhm. Yeah, it’s really, really helpful too. You know, know that know what your audience cares about, know that they are looking for something different or something um that where they can really make a bigger difference and sometimes they are interested in um you know, they’re like, oh if if I can give here then I’m giving to two different organizations that are really, really wonderful and they’re meeting the um the needs of multiple different types of people or causes at the same time. So why wouldn’t I

[00:13:19.54] spk_3:
tell her somebody who was in one of these organizations? What like what detailed advice can you give for folks who are thinking about? It’s kind of a collaboration like maybe even just start with who might you collaborate with?

[00:16:50.84] spk_1:
Sure. Yeah. I think, you know, sometimes there are some pretty some pretty obvious uh places to start, right? So groups that you you know frequently partner with or that you would work with, you know, that either share sort of the kind of work that you do or share a mission and similar with you. But I think for us, one of the biggest things that we’ve actually had success with is finding groups that share our mission and share our work but have very different, different tactics are different strengths. So, you know, corporate accountability, we do a lot of sort of national and international policy based work. Um and we have had some of our best partnerships with really small state or local groups that are really focused on um grassroots or community organizing. Um and I think the reason it works is, you know, we’re able to sort of bring the bigger sort of systemic analysis and the policies and the sort of like the heavy big stuff, and then we’re able to point to these groups to say, you know, this is literally this is what how this impacts individual people’s lives, and this is how they’re going about working on fixing this, this isn’t just like a sort of zoomed out policy discussion, this is like a thing that is about real people. Um so we’ve had some really good success sort of partnering with groups that have, have different, have different approaches and different strengths to us. Um and I think those those can make really, really fruitful partnerships, um just because, you know, you’re you’re sort of complementing one another, I think, you know, you can I’ve we’ve had some really good partnerships with other sort of national policy oriented groups as well, but I do think that’s one place that I think it has been a little bit surprising to me is like actually like finding those groups that have a really different Thing that they do 2.2 is important. And then for us, you know, when we, when we started doing some of this work, one of the biggest pieces that was really important to us was um really being mindful of racial equity and equity overall. So we’re really approaching this as a way to sort of resource the movement. We’ve, you know, we started corporate accountability started Over 40 years ago with the nestle boycott in the late 70s. Um, and so that was a campaign where we were working primarily with organizations in uh, in South America. Um, and working to stop nestle from marketing infant formula in communities that it was really harmful for infant formula to be used and infants were getting sick and dying. Um, so we’ve always had this dynamic where we are a group that’s based in the Global North, in in the US, but we’re primarily, or often working with groups in the Global South and communities of color. So there’s there’s a built in power dynamic there that were always sort of aware of. And I think one of the, one of the things we really strive to do with these partnerships is to seek out, you know, black and uh of colour led organisations and Global South led organizations that we can work with and we can resource because oftentimes we have a much higher access to those resources than these other groups that are doing incredible work that you deserve this as much more more than we do. So that’s another another thing that we’ve really focused on. You know, that’s not centered everybody but

[00:17:12.24] spk_3:
corporate accountability has centered equity. It sounds like in probably across all your work. But and so it just becomes part of your D. N. A. And absolutely you have it in mind as you or it’s an objective as you as you look for these partnerships

[00:17:25.24] spk_1:
ellen-leikind

[00:17:57.14] spk_3:
How about some advice around you know like sticky points? Uh some problem issues, you know you trust your partners of course but things are gonna come up, you know no no agreement can anticipate everything or you know whether it’s a verbal agreement or a written agreement. And how do you how do you navigate some of the tricky parts like maybe somebody put something out that doesn’t quite describe your work correctly or you know things like that or whatever it might be. Oh that was it could be either one I was thinking of taylor because he’s been involved in these, but it could be either one of you, I don’t care if somebody step up this time.

[00:19:41.54] spk_1:
Yeah, I’m curious if Jack has other examples, but you know, I think, I think for us, um, really the biggest, the biggest thing is like, as Jack mentioned earlier, having agreements and having conversations in sort of, in the beginning, you know, really laying out what’s expected, what roles are going to be for each organization, uh, sort of how you expect things to look, how money is going to get dispersed if you’re doing joint fundraising, you know, sort of, all of those nitty gritty details. Um, and then, you know, it’s really, it’s really just communication, you know, checking in a ton. Um, you know, we frequently will do a whole slew of emails to try and promote some of these fundraising campaigns that are joined. And, you know, we build in a step where we literally just send the copy of the emails over to the partners and have them review them, um, just to make sure we’re being super upfront and saying like, does this sound good to you? Are we describing your work appropriately? Like, you know, is there a better way you would want to say this? Um, and so, you know, that, that I think is key for for us is just, is just that constant communication is really the most important thing. And I think, you know, even before that, just sort of building building deep relationships, um, and and sort of like cementing that trust before you are trying to jump in on something that’s big, like joint fundraising campaign where tens of thousands of dollars could be at stake. Great. Um, so it’s definitely not like a starting point in your relationship. It’s something that you want to, you want to build towards. Okay

[00:19:45.04] spk_3:
Jack, anything you want to, you want to add there about sticking points or you feel like taylor covered?

[00:21:17.34] spk_4:
Yeah, he mostly covered it. I would say, you know, to your point, tony um, about, you know, if you put something, someone put something out there and it doesn’t really meet, um, anything about your organization or what have you. I think, you know, talking about your brand, that’s something we kind of speak our touch on in our session. Um, uh, making sure that they have all of that information, your logos, um, all of that so that everything is laid out so that they’re following that information as well. That’s part of the initial communication that should happen. Um, so that they’re not, you know, using words that you would never use in your communications, things like that. Um, and I think another piece here is that you make sure that not that you’re treading lately, but that you’re working really entirely in partnership, in your in your, uh, coming to it with equity and, um, and real conversation in mind. Um, and knowing that there’s likely no harm meant from your partner because you you you want to not only build that partnership for now, but build it for the future. Um, who knows how beneficial it could be in, um, you know, the future campaigns, um, things that could come up where you could work together on something that could really, um, open yourselves up for some really, really amazing opportunities. So it makes sense to not do something that could cause some of that rift

[00:21:39.74] spk_3:
you all had. Right expanding lists by exchanging swapping is one of you more accustomed more acquainted with that than the other?

[00:21:44.64] spk_1:
Yeah, Probably me,

[00:21:49.64] spk_3:
Jack. Okay. Yeah.

[00:23:20.24] spk_1:
So we do this a ton. Um, and it’s a really, it’s a really great tactic. Um, it is something that we use Action Network, so it’s something that’s built into Action Network as a sort of email tool set and advocacy tools that not to not to bust market them, but they are the ones that have built this tool. Um, and essentially what it allows is when you set up a petition, um, you can invite other groups to also promote that petition. Um, and once you send them sort of a unique link for them to promote the petition with, um, it automatically tracks sort of where activists are coming from, and then automatically shares a proportion of the folks who signed that petition with your partners. Um, so the expectation is, you know, if if I am partnering with another group and they join and they send an email out to their list and get 100 new folks to join to sign that petition, That they would get out of the total pot of folks who take action 100 new folks to add to their list. Um So it’s sort of it’s a great way both to get more signatures than you would stand alone, right? You know, if your group can get x number of petition signatures inviting a couple other groups will get you a whole bunch more. Um but it also it also is a way to sort of for everybody to sort of grow their email lists and speak to folks who like actually care about your topics because they’re signing a petition that is based on your mission and your issues.

[00:23:46.74] spk_3:
Yeah. Cool. And of course it’s disclosed to people who sign right that they’ll they’ll they’ll receive materials from or however you were at this other, you know, the other group or groups. Okay. Any other ways any other ways of doing this besides petition drives?

[00:23:51.44] spk_1:
I mean that’s the sort of the main one I’m curious, Jack if if there

[00:23:55.60] spk_3:
you, have you seen this in other settings

[00:25:22.14] spk_4:
um in terms of um yeah, it’s mostly petitions or pledges, things like that, just mainly because it’s the easiest way to get another um organizations permission. The other way that I’ve seen it. Er Sorry, another um person’s permission to join a list. Another way that I’ve seen it done is when uh organizations will sponsor each other’s emails across um email. So one organization corporate accountability would say sponsor flint risings, email and they would just send flint risings email to their list. Um And have um flint rising whatever content that is um Those folks um people, corporate accountabilities folks just do whatever that action is for flint rising. I’ve also seen some organizations come together on things like quizzes, games, things like that. Um I put together a whole like mhm uh bracket for an organization before that was like these items like which one is the best? And then it ended up you know with a winner and it was like a couple of weeks long. Um And it ended up being really really successful where a bunch of different organizations were like fighting for which thing was the best on like social media and stuff. So

[00:29:18.84] spk_3:
okay collaborations partnerships, ventures, you don’t have to do your work alone. Right? All right, we’ll leave it there. All right. They are taylor leak. Digital director of corporate accountability and Jack Valor, senior account executive at Mall Warwick donor. Digital telephone jack. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. And thanks to all of you for being with 20 martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 ntc The 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 ntc by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Where would you like to be heard? Use outlets, conferences, podcasts, blogs, editorials. That’s all earned media and turn to can help you get it because they’ve got the relationships with the media outlets. What about your own media though? Owned media turn to can help you improve that because your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. It’s time for Tony to take two planned giving accelerator. The next class Kicks off on July one. People in the first class that started in january, they already started getting gifts in month three and by month four there were multiple gifts at multiple members of that very first class. So within only three and in some cases four months of a 12 month program, the gift commitments already coming in. If you join me in the July one class, you could have gifts by Halloween, This could happen for you too. Planned giving accelerator. It’s the online membership community that I’ve created. I teach you step by step, how to get your planned giving program started. We have monthly live teachings and ask me anything sessions and a podcast. Just for members. There’s resources like templates and checklists. All the stuff I was about to say all the ship, let’s keep it. It’s the stuff well, you know, I just said it. So all this, all the things you need To get your plan giving program launched in 2021 and like I said, join, join in, July joined the July class. You could have gifts by Halloween. It happened for members of the first class. So Where you get the info for the July one class, it’s all at planned giving accelerator.com. Check it out if you’re not in planned giving, I will get you started and if that applies to you, if you’re not in planned giving, I hope to join me for the July one class. That is tony steak too. Here is partnerships with African American churches. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC, the 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C. O. With me now is Oliver Richmond is president at Kingdom Putnam

[00:29:25.84] spk_0:
Oliver. Welcome. Thank you for having me on tony I appreciate

[00:30:07.14] spk_3:
it, my pleasure. It’s a very interesting topic. Uh we’re hopefully going to be joined by others who I will introduce as they come in. Now, Oliver joined on time and I don’t want to cut this segment short so we’re gonna get started. You’re topic, There’s someone right now there’s Aneta. Okay, we’re bringing in Anita lee Aneta welcome. We’re already recording live. So please join the conversation with me now is in Italy also she’s chief digital specialist at anoeta uplifts LLC and I had already introduced Oliver Richmond and your topic is Black Church a different kind of non profit

[00:30:09.54] spk_2:
Yes. So let me clarify just a little bit. It is Anita, it’s pronounced Anita,

[00:30:28.94] spk_3:
Thank you very much Anita. Okay, thank you. Okay, let’s stick with you Anita. Well not right. You know what let’s give it to Oliver because he came he was right on time. So I mean okay. Okay thank you Anita. Oliver. What you know black churches. Um I don’t go to one. What do you want folks like me to know about black churches?

[00:31:03.94] spk_0:
Black churches are the heart and soul of the black community. If you go back and look at history, that was the only institution that blacks own coming out of slavery. And the black church has been the one delivered services, tutoring, mentoring, food, spiritual help over the years. They have just been a pillar and helping keep those communities safe and all the good things came out of the black church in the black community.

[00:32:02.84] spk_3:
All the good things came out of the black church. All right. Yeah. I’ve had lots of guests on through the years. I’ve been doing this podcast over 10 years. And mostly they would they would bring up black churches when when it was uh you know, like a program they were trying to carry out like a couple of cases. It was something medical and uh I don’t remember. It wasn’t research, but it was some nonprofit work. And they had emphasized the importance of working through the churches to get community buy in for the for the program that they were trying to they were trying to carry out in the in the community. Um So I’ve heard about this through the years that the black churches are critical and and the and the pastors can be sort of conduits to the to the community. Am I standing there? Okay.

[00:32:05.94] spk_2:
Yeah.

[00:32:07.20] spk_4:
Over the

[00:32:56.14] spk_0:
years, the black pastors and leaders, if you look through civil rights, all different things, they’ve been the ones who have stood up for the community because they don’t have to worry about losing their jobs. Um, so so they stood up for the community and they’re respected as leaders, no matter what size their churches and the black community expects the black pastors to be involved in the community where some churches, the pastor just preached, uh, over the bible, priests teach and then they’re done. But the black church, they’re expected to be involved in the causes if it’s gangs, if it’s feeding health, whatever it might be, they’re the ones that look to, to bring that information deliberate to the people into the community.

[00:32:58.94] spk_3:
And you did, You sounded a little, a little skeptical about the way I said it. You said, well, you said it. Okay. But what, tell me more, what, what, what, what do you want to say to me?

[00:35:54.44] spk_2:
Uh, yeah. Um, I think that you’re absolutely right. Um and when you’ve spoken to many people over the years, yeah, it’s critical um, that black churches are involved, but I think it’s it’s only a small piece, I think that the general world nonprofit community um only see black churches within the lens of whatever program that they’re deciding to do instead of recognizing black church as the literal pinnacle of the black experience. So when you think about, um, our celebrities, our stars, our um, our millionaires and billionaires that that that that made the country looks up to, many of those people have started in the black church. Like if you think about any major musical star in any genre, from, you know, gospel and soul to R and B, even into rap and hip hop, you will find that all of those artists, most of those artists, how to start in the black Church, even if they’re talking about guns and drugs and shooting and sex, they all have uh start in the black church. And I think that that was the reason why I, you know, I intend to allow me to do this because um, from politics and, and from, from health, from business, our major ivy League, historically black colleges and universities are hBc use. Many of them started in the basement of a black church. The obvious one of the more famous ones, Morehouse, um, where dr martin Luther King got his degree and Spelman, which was the female counterpart to Morehouse, was started in the basement of friendship baptist church in Atlanta Georgia. So, and I’m sure you’ll probably have, you know, you can probably hear stories in other cities as well. So I think that that’s what I wanted the nonprofits to see and to understand that were just that, that the black church and the experience of black church is not a place where you can go get your program started and you can hit your demographic. It really is a place where the, the intensity of the culture and the whole meaning the essence of African american experience is based. Mhm.

[00:36:15.33] spk_3:
Thank you. And Anita, you want us to think about partnering with African american churches? That’s the the, I mean, yeah, that’s the whole purpose of the your session. By the way, I have some work going on. You might hear a song in the background. I hope it’s not hope. It’s not too annoying. No

[00:36:15.64] spk_2:
worries.

[00:36:17.13] spk_3:
Can you hear me? You hear me over it? Can you I hear you over it? Okay, good. Okay. Um, yeah, so you want to encourage us to uh non profits to be partnering with the churches.

[00:37:41.63] spk_2:
Right? And not only do we want the nonprofits to partner with churches, We want you, we wanted nonprofits to understand the uniqueness and the idiosyncrasies that that comes with partnering with Black Church, which is reason it was called Black Church a different kind of nonprofit. Yes. It is a non profit in the essence that it’s five oh one C three and you know, things of that nature or it might not even be five oh one C three. Um, it’s structured around providing those social services, um, but it does not necessarily operate as, you know, your typical nonprofit with a board and you know, and in programs and things of that nature. And so, um, in order to have an effective partnership, um, I wanted nonprofits to understand this is the essence of what Black Church is and these are the ways that she provide or create uh, successful institute, sustainable partnerships. While you’re trying to fulfill your mission for your non profit Oliver

[00:37:47.53] spk_3:
can we, can we go to you to acquaint us with some of the, the idiosyncrasies that Anita is referring to.

[00:39:17.82] spk_0:
Yes. One of the things we work with a ton of black churches and white churches, but one of the things that you want to do is visit the church, see what kind of things they’re doing. I mean, you can look at the announcement, say if they got kids doing announcements, they’re talking a lot about you. You know that church probably want to do things with youth. That’s their where their heart is at. So as you, as you meet people try to meet people in their leadership and if you can get a meeting with the pastor, go there, Get a meeting with the pastor. You talk 10%, let him talk 90 and asked him to share his vision in his heart for the community and that out of that conversation, you’re going to see the things that he’s excited about it that he want to do. And your role is when your partner with them engaging them. If you’re doing youth and maybe they’re passionate about prison ministry, you try to connect this to somebody that can help you with prison ministry and you bring a lot of credibility to them. And guess what if you work with you, he’ll connect you to a pastor that has a big, nice youth program. I want to work with you from the community. So you got to hear their heart and listen to them and you might have the greatest thing that you want to do, but it might not be a fit because just like people, churches have capacity for a few things that they can do well. And you got to seek those out when you engage them. Uh, and you have a lot more success when you do that.

[00:40:41.71] spk_3:
It’s time for a break. Send in blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with tools to build end to end digital campaigns that look professional, They’re affordable and keep you organized. So we’re talking about digital campaign marketing. Most marketing software is designed for large companies and comes with the enterprise level pricing. Send in Blue is priced for nonprofits. It’s an easy to use marketing platform that walks you through the steps of building a campaign like step by step, like playing, giving accelerators step by step, try out, sending blue and get a free month. Hit the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. It’s aptly named now you thought the baku but loads got obliterated when I didn’t invoke them after Tony’s take too, didn’t you? You were wondering, I’ve got your back, we’ve got boo koo but loads more time for partnerships with african american churches Anita, you want to elaborate on more of the idiosyncrasies folks should be aware of. I

[00:42:13.20] spk_2:
think, uh, no, I think Oliver is very, you know, and the reason why I had him on our panel is because he is the embodiment of the cross sectional of not only with black church and white church and also with black church and, and non profits. And so, um, I have to say like during our session, we did have someone that posed the question of the fact that they are not christian, uh, they’re not black and so they were concerned as to whether or not they would be able to, you know, attend church service. And uh, and I want to bring this out, Oliver because it just makes sense. Um, he said, you don’t have to be a christian to attend church, you can attend church, you don’t have to be a christian to attend church. And so you, you know, and so it’s just important that, um, just like a nonprofit has a mission. Churches have a mission, right? And so even though most of them, the main mission is saving souls and um, and, and, and provide, you know, providing the, spreading the gospel of jesus, that’s the main mission. But to Oliver’s point, you know, different churches have different sort of passion projects, just like the nonprofit has a passion project. So you’re not going to see the environmental non profit doing stuff with prison, right? Because that’s not their mission, There’s is saving the environment, Right? And so, um, it’s that research and that intentional research by visiting that church is where you will learn what’s a good fit for your organization. And then also partnering up

[00:42:54.70] spk_3:
Oliver, it sounds like the pastor is really the key, like sort of the ceo of the church. You have any other advice about getting his or her attention, You know, you said listen, listen 90% and talk 10% before we have twice as many years and only one or two layers in one mouth. But what other advice is, you know, like as you’re just trying to introduce yourself before you, before you, you know, before you, before you try to visit the church, just trying to get that,

[00:43:05.70] spk_0:
how

[00:43:07.05] spk_3:
we’ll

[00:44:07.29] spk_0:
find out who, who some of the key leaders are. You can go to their website, uh, even look at the brochure and find out who some of the key leaders are and talk with them and see if they can give you a warm introduction to the pastor. Another one the key points is, And I made this mistake years ago, I’ve been working with churches 27 years, particularly black churches wherever the pastor points you too go follow up in that direction. Uh, because sometimes you want to just get to the past. Or maybe he might give you a phone conversation and say go talk to tony and you might not tony Know that Tony is his right hand man. He’s going to rely on tony or whether we should engage in his partnership and do this program. So sometimes people try to get to the pastor, but he might have someone else that he wants you to work with and then they’ll share the big idea. He’ll rely on them. So whatever the rescue send you going, that direction followed them.

[00:44:11.49] spk_3:
Anything else Anita you want to add about trying to make that, get that first introduction that, that break that ice.

[00:46:38.58] spk_2:
Well, just to keep in mind, um, uh, that depending on the denomination, which is brings in the intricacies of the fact of, you know, now and, and that’s just protestant, the whole protestant religion totally right. You got all these different denominations and sections and districts or whatever. Um, but that’s on the onus of the nonprofit professional to do their particular research and to understand that um, one to Oliver’s point when they pointed to that person to go ahead and and, and engage, but also know in different situations. The pastor may not necessarily be the like the decision maker, right? They maybe they might not be the one that is the one that may, he may be a part of it, right? But it might be the trustee board. Um, it might be the deacon’s board, it might be, you know, some other institution. It might be the superintendent. That is the one that really has the quote unquote power to engage the church in, in, in partnerships. And so, um, that’s just, you know, an additional thing to kind of consider. And then, of course, you know, and in that vein, as I’m thinking about it, that kind of, you know, put that, that might make the nonprofit professional a little bit more comfortable because it’s almost like talking to a board, right? It’s, it’s, you know, as the other nonprofits, like here’s the board and they’re the one that makes the decisions and some denominations are set up like that. Some are totally not the ending the beginning and the end Alpha and omega comes from the past. So it’s just just an additional step. Um, you know, once you’ve, you know, visit the church and maybe, you know, like I did a little research, checking out the website, maybe attending a service or maybe not attend the service, attend an event. The church is having a volunteer. Um, no one’s gonna turn around and turn away a volunteer, no matter what. Right. That’s, that’s not probably one or one. So, you know, volunteering for something and you, you kind of get a sense of who’s, you know, who’s the kind of the one that’s kind of running the programs and, and, and making the decisions. So yeah,

[00:46:46.68] spk_3:
I needed your work at uplift. Uh, it sounded to me like it was the intersection of black churches and technology.

[00:46:54.58] spk_2:
It is, it is um, it was it’s basically, uh, my new social entrepreneurship one out of the, um, my, my own sort of personal mission around digital inclusion and um, in digital inclusion efforts and the fact that I truly believe that churches um, can be a place of opportunity when we’re talking about closing the digital divide. Now, I’ll be honest with you Tony. I’m not only am I trying to get tech folks and nonprofits to see churches as places of opportunity. I’m trying to work on the churches as well to try to get them to understand that this is a different or new evolution of ministry for them. So that’s kind of kind of my personal mission and cause and ministry, if you will.

[00:48:14.87] spk_3:
So I trying to expand everybody’s circles where they find the intersection between them and and end up doing good work for for all the communities. Yes. All right. We still got some good time together. A good amount of time together. What, what, what else would either of you like? Talk about other questions you got from your session or something else you covered in your session that we haven’t talked about yet, throw it open to

[00:49:41.37] spk_0:
you. I think one of the things tony really helped get engaged is support them. I’ll give you a prime example of a couple of quick examples when, when the virus hit and shut down everything. We partner with a technology group to bring hotspots online, uh, notebooks with urban black churches And got them online so they can get giving online. They didn’t have the technology, they didn’t know what to do, but we’ll never helped 40 of them. So guess what? I can pick up the phone anytime and call those pastors directly and say, hey, let’s look at doing this. I didn’t ask him for anything, didn’t want anything, but if you can help serve them another example, uh, it was a water shortage in Mississippi pastor said Oliver can you help get some water? I said, well let me send you a check and said no, no don’t send me a check because I got to go get the water. I need you to bring over the cases of water. So guess what? I went to Sam’s couldn’t get as much water because only so much in the car and I can push it. But guess what? Now our relationship is deeper because I was able to help a need that he was trying to fulfill to take a truckload of water down. Uh, and then, so now when I call them up with something that we want to do with his church or in the neighborhood, he’ll take that call and listen and more be more aptitude to work with us because we support them in the time of meat.

[00:50:29.36] spk_3:
Hey build trust. Yes, he had, he had a problem and you had a solution that you know, that that builds trust, I’m sure needed your degree. You know, this if you’re going to approach any of this or any other, any relationship, you know, transactional e I, you know, we want to get this out of it. We’re here for six months and then we’re moving on with some other project, then you shouldn’t even bother. I mean, but if you want to, but if you want to build a relationship, not that you have to be working together forever either. But if you’re gonna look at it as a transaction versus opening the door to a relationship, you’re, you’re short changing yourself the church, you’re trying to partner with the program. You’re trying to expand or build. You know, it’s it’s

[00:50:30.31] spk_2:
and the people you’re trying

[00:51:02.96] spk_3:
to serve and the people you hope to help. It’s not a it’s not a one and done. You know, it’s a we’re trying to build a relationship here. We don’t we don’t know the ways we might be able to work together in the future. You know, we got an idea how we could do what we can do now in this next six months or a year. But who knows what the ensuing years could bring. You know, it’s just basic relationship building. The same thing you do with your volunteers, your your donors. You know, you don’t look at them as transactions as a T. M. S. You get something out and then walk away. So, same thing here with any relationship, whether it’s with an individual or uh, an institution, like a black church. All right, that’s right.

[00:54:01.34] spk_2:
So yeah, I agree with you Tony, I agree with you so much tony I think I said that was more into the essence of why I wanted to do this. Um I think um so another reason as to why I presented this to anti china had to do with um an actual project that I did as a digital inclusion fellow um and in connection with the Rainbow push Coalition, and we were trying to establish some digital inclusion um programming at churches here in Atlanta. And it was because um the organization just did not understand each other well that the program itself for the initiative itself really didn’t experience the level of success that it could have. Um because on the church side, uh they weren’t fully educated as to what he was trying to be done. And then on the nonprofit side, they really, um, honestly did not understand the fully understand the idiosyncrasies of black church. Um, and I’ll give you a small example. Um, one of the, one of the criteria for the churches that was in the program, um, was that they needed to fundraise, um, a specific amount of dollars, and then the nonprofit was going to match that fundraisers, and then that was supposed to be, um, not quote unquote given, but sort of giving access to the fellow so that the fellow can use that those funds to build out the program. Well, as I was sitting there as one of the fellows listening to, you know, listening to how this work, I said, there’s a whole time kind of shaking my head. I said, you can’t do that with black shirts, you can’t just tell them to just fundraise for a specific a specific event and not run it through the sort of proper channels where everyone, including the leadership of the church is on board, um in order to in order to make it happen. And so what happened was, is that it kind of fell by the wayside because the church is was like, uh huh, what are you, what are you talking about? Fun. What do you mean? Like in addition to my ties and offerings or something different, something, whatever. And so unfortunately, go

[00:54:03.37] spk_3:
ahead. I need you to wrap up with with your takeaway from that. Okay. We just have a minute left. What’s your takeaway?

[00:54:09.44] spk_2:
So the takeaway is, is it’s just still important to to get that, do that research and and begin to understand one another. And it doesn’t just say, oh, you have my demographic. So let’s just do it and it takes time like you said, to build that relationship troubles.

[00:54:28.84] spk_3:
All right, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you. Need to leave Chief digital specialist at Anita uplifts LLC and Oliver Richmond, President Kingdom Partners, Anita. Oliver, thank you very much.

[00:54:38.71] spk_2:
Thank you.

[00:54:40.64] spk_0:
Take care now.

[00:56:07.84] spk_3:
Thank you very much. And thank you for being with Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 ntc 2021 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o next week. CRM selection and new websites as our 21 NTC coverage continues. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. And by sending Blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in Blue, our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Yeah, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty You with me next week for nonprofit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

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[00:00:10.94] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas

[00:01:50.94] spk_1:
for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow a gangly own aroma if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show. A better website. 52 tweaks In 52 weeks, Crystal and Dominique Hernandez revealed lots of small tweaks for your site to increase constituent reach, engagement and actions taken. They promise they reach less than an hour to implement Chris’s from Tuttle Co. And Dominique is with Institute for Policy Studies. This is part of our 20 NTC coverage. Also, keep your shiny new website shiny and new now that you’ve tweaked your way to a better site. How about a maintenance plan to keep it looking great? Get plenty of tips and techniques from Josh Lyman and Samantha Wasserman, both from Great Believer. That’s also part of 20 NTC coverage world about websites today. Non tony take to start the racism conversation were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo. Here is ah better website. 52 tweaks in 52 weeks. Hello and welcome

[00:02:39.64] spk_2:
to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and T. C. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference we’re supposed to have been in Baltimore. The conference was canceled, but we’re going ahead. Virtually non profit radio coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? My guests are, as we kick off, the coverages are first of all, the NTC interviews. My guests are crisp little and Dominique Hernandez Chris is principal at Tunnel Co. And Dominique Hernandez is website administrator for Institute for Policy Studies. Chris Dominique. Welcome.

[00:02:42.24] spk_3:
Thank you so great to be here.

[00:03:03.74] spk_2:
I’m glad the three of us could get together. I know you’re each well and safe. I’m glad to know that as well. Um, we can’t be together in Baltimore, but we can cover the topic just as well. I think virtually 52 tweaks in 52 weeks to a better website. So you’ve got something that lasts. E think you say each of these is like an hour or less, and we can tackle one of them a week. Dominique, is that true?

[00:03:16.04] spk_4:
That is true. Um, gold from a patient is to really keep each of these tips as a bite sized chunk that a busy and oftentimes trap not profit communications professional. 10. Set aside a little bit of time for each week. And when you add all of these together cumulatively you made of you made a big improvement on your site was not a huge time about that.

[00:03:59.28] spk_2:
Okay, Yeah. Your description says we can increase constituent reach and engagement. Um, actions taken. So these air Uh Ah. Audacious, ambitious outcomes. But we can do ah, you know, spend an hour a week doing them so cool or less. Less than an hour a week for some. So why don’t we dive in? Dominique won t kick us off with now. We’re not going to be able to 52 in in Ah, you know, roughly 25 minutes or so. So we need your top. Well, whatever. However, many, maybe 10 or so we’ll get to if we depending. How much? We elaborate. 10 maybe 12 or so. So pick your pick your top ones, and we’ll go here where you got Dominique.

[00:04:22.14] spk_4:
We have picked the couple to talk about as our top save, so I’ll talk about a few of mine. Um, what I mind is to use mobile and technology to help your your feed your mobile feed when they’re accessing your articles on a phone. You might have noticed this when you Google article or when you google with top it. Sometimes the first results will have will be from a new stores, and we’ll have a little lightning bolt left of them. And the lightning bolt means that you saw the framework that helped load Web pages in less than a second and uses 10 times less data than regular Web pages who prioritize your results. Um, and that back close time is really good. First facility is Well, that’s one of mine.

[00:05:06.17] spk_2:
This is called This is called Mobile AMP. A M P

[00:05:09.43] spk_4:
ghoul a mt for accelerated mobile project

[00:05:13.94] spk_2:
Accelerating mobile project. Okay. And where would you find that to install it.

[00:05:24.78] spk_4:
You have to install their framework on your site. You can download it from them and throw it into the code that you can install on your website around your horrible

[00:05:36.11] spk_2:
Okay. Um all right, so just search for Google. Accelerated mobile. Help me.

[00:05:37.53] spk_4:
Accelerated Mobile Project framework

[00:05:39.70] spk_2:
Project Framer. OK, thank you. All right, cool. That sounds That sounds like less than an hour, Much less

[00:05:45.70] spk_4:
it would be. Yes,

[00:05:47.49] spk_3:
it could be. Okay.

[00:05:49.20] spk_4:
You want about these back and forth?

[00:05:51.34] spk_2:
Yeah, Go ahead. Yeah, I will play a little pink bomb. If it gets laborious, I’ll let you know.

[00:07:01.00] spk_3:
Sure. Well, it’s also add that, you know, we do. Estimate is about an hour. But what may take me an hour may take you 15 minutes or 30 minutes, or it may take you two hours. So, um, some, we’re gonna be a bit longer or more difficult for other than others, depending on who you are and your access to different features and functionality in your organization. So I think since Google amp. Is while easy one somewhat a technical one, that’s probably gonna be a website administrator or when programmers that are working on I’m gonna give one. That might be easier for all of us to your lives or even for a communications team, which is using a color checker to figure out whether or not the colors that were used anything on our website are visible. The people with different forms of color blindness or are easy to read for people who have different visual impairments that might make it difficult to see things that are in low contrast colors and distinguish between the maybe text in the front and the background color of the Web page. Okay, so one tool that we suggested that could be used for this is Web aim dot ward, as resource is on a contrast checker. And then there’s also several color blindness checkers that could be easily down vehicle that are completely free to use.

[00:07:17.54] spk_2:
Okay, cool. I’ve got an interview coming up today or tomorrow on total website accessibility. Why you? Why? It’s beneficial for your site to be accessible to those with disabilities special needs, but but it helped improve the sight overall for everyone.

[00:07:44.03] spk_3:
It does when we also remember that you know one in 10 males and have some type of color blindness. And there are multiple types of colorblindness that that influence what they can see and how people see things. And not all. Color blindness is a light, but you know more than 10% of the population as either color blindness or other visual impairments. And so it’s better for all of us. Makes information easier to see you. And we have high contrast and colors representing important information or details. But it’s also going to make our sight completely inaccessible if we don’t check these things.

[00:07:55.32] spk_2:
Yeah, okay. And that was again. There was Web A I am dot org’s right

[00:07:59.64] spk_3:
with aimed at work.

[00:08:02.94] spk_2:
Okay, cool. All right, Dominique, your you know your turn.

[00:08:05.84] spk_4:
Sure. So another one of my favorites on here is to deploy a CBN TDN stands for content delivery network. I’m a developer. So a lot of fun in our technical, but I tried to really bring them down to things that are easy for everyone to access. Um, and what a cdn does is reduce the loading time of your site by actually reducing the physical distance that the information has to travel across wires. So instead of having one copy of your site on a server. Somewhere in the world, there are multiple local copies. And when when they’re pure miles on the wire that that improved the load time of your site they were once really, really expensive and difficult boy and would really require developer help. But as time have done on, they’ve gotten a lot cheaper and often time. Your Web host will have them. We’ll have a package for them. Um, that will cause not that much. Um, not model. Really crazy amount. So one of my tweets is definitely check to see if your host offers a cdn and how much it costs. Definitely worth it again for your time.

[00:09:09.44] spk_2:
Okay? And you’re asking the company that hosts your site?

[00:09:14.04] spk_4:
Yeah,

[00:09:42.04] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As. The ship is still moving fast. Congress passed the Paycheck Protection Program Flexibility Act. It allows your or GE 24 weeks to spend money on forgivable expenses instead of only eight, and increases the time to pay back what’s not forgivable. It’s all explained at wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource is and Blawg. Now back to a better website. 52 tweaks In 52 weeks.

[00:09:49.73] spk_2:
It’s getting a little monotonous going back and forth, but we’re gonna do maybe two at a time. But go ahead, Chris, you go and you’re gonna be feet up with new Chris, and then we’ll give Dominique to okay, Why don’t you choose

[00:09:57.10] spk_3:
a couple of a couple others that are favorites of mine? One, I think a fairly easy one that we all overlook. And that’s also something we should say here. Dominic and I are not pretending that we’ve done all of this perfectly ourselves. In fact, in developing this resource on developing this presentation way, we’re very clearly used. Examples of sites we work, our that needed. They need work. Uh oh. This is

[00:10:20.32] spk_2:
very humble of the two of you. Thank you.

[00:11:12.74] spk_3:
We’ll just a note like this is a process for all of us. And that’s exactly why we wanted Teoh share this idea of having about our weak we prove improve our website with, instead of just waiting five years, there’s been tons of money redesigning and trying to fix everything at once. And then, of course, falling a little bit short of that goal because there’s always going to be improvements to be made So with that two easy ones that could be done. One is the four for error page uh, for non tech things, you may not know what the 44 pages For everybody else, it is that error page that we see when the Web page we intended to find either be a link search result or something else was not bound. This often happens when websites ah, restructured, updated, redesigned or moves from different platforms and hosts. But it can also happen just because we changed the URL or change the title even of a block post. And so customizing are 44 Page ensures that people who are trying to find the content they couldn’t aren’t just left at a dead end. We can customize that page. You say something that’s a little bit more friendly than four or error and tell the user what’s actually happening and give them tools and actually fixing that error, like searching the internal website for the resource they were looking for, or giving a link to the most commonly used or access resource is where they’re hosted now, or asking the user to do something else. It’s to join you on a different channel or even subscribe and trying to contact you directly to try to find the help that you were looking for.

[00:11:48.05] spk_2:
So you could you could put a search bar on that 404 error page.

[00:11:52.09] spk_3:
You can quite easily. In fact, a lot of the content management systems like Group A. WordPress Jumla. Um, it’s fairly easy to configure this with the internal centric capabilities that already exists.

[00:12:03.88] spk_2:
OK, OK, yeah, that’s true. Now that I’m thinking about it, I have seen some that are much more friendly. You know, we’re sorry you landed here. We can’t find what you’re looking for. I guess I have seen them with a search or right, As you suggest. Maybe you’ll be interested in this other content that is most popular or something like that. Yeah. And the others air just, uh, somewhere. Just bear templates that nobody’s ever looked

[00:12:48.21] spk_3:
like Yeah or Brandon pages that maybe a euro they fought should go somewhere like a ah organization. Uh, orc slash donate. They thought was going to take him to the donation for which it should, if it doesn’t. But there’s all types of reasons that users might be typing in or finding a bad world. So the second tip there are traps that we can make is also utilizing our websites. They’re hosting service’s, depending on what Web post you have. Or if you’re using something like WordPress true, Juma or dribble installing a plug in that will help you easily find those 44 pages. What are the links that people are active thing? That I’m returning the 44 page so that you can create custom redirect X for each of those page pages, either taking them now not to that customized for four cage, but to the specific resource they have meant to find in the first place.

[00:13:18.83] spk_2:
Okay, how do we do this? How do we find all the links that are causing the four forever’s?

[00:13:48.18] spk_3:
Yeah, if you’re armed, any of the major content management system was like WordPress, triple or Jumah. There are plug ins that exists. We use redirect a redirection. Our WordPress often eyes an easy plug in that will tell you what of those four for what pages? What your l’s are returning those four for error messages and will allow you to create a custom, uh, redirect from a specific you world to the new one. Very easy to use. I mean, really this to the states. Less than an hour for sure. Um, just set up andan. Actively. Manage over time.

[00:13:57.14] spk_2:
Okay, cool. Those 404 related. Excellent. Thank you. All right, Dominique.

[00:14:50.89] spk_4:
Sure. So another one of the treats I’d like to talk about is that you can perform a responsiveness review test without having tablets or phones with part of you using developer pool in the major browsers in the major browsers in chrome and Firefox, it’s either control on Windows Air Command on a Mac plus shift. Plus, I brings up a developer pulled interface where you’ll see the website and you’ll see a bunch of code at the bottom of the great place at a CSS if you want to. But along the hop, there’s a bar where you can simulate all different kinds of devices all different. Find the full homes or programs in iPhones going back several generations, some of the more popular android phone tablet sizes, and you can also put in any custom screen resolution screen sizes that you want. You’ll see how your site will render on any of those and anything, anything that might be getting hung up anything that falls off the page, it doesn’t look quite right. You know exactly what? The edit? You actually have have any of the devices? Part of you did do that simulation right there. Building your brother.

[00:15:07.13] spk_2:
Okay. Could you give us those keystrokes one more time, please?

[00:15:10.84] spk_4:
Sure. Its control on the windows or command on a Mac plus ship. Plus I

[00:15:16.84] spk_2:
okay, okay.

[00:15:57.21] spk_4:
And another one, which is more about accessibility That Chris was talking about before with color tracker, um is to try to interact with your website without about their folks that that used what place? Exclusively using keyboard navigation. And you should be able to from the address bar, you should be able to hit a tab key and other keyboard controls to move through every element on the page. Those elements should be highlighted with a little box. And there are right. I see your face right now. Is this something that you don’t think about if you are mouth user all the time, But there folks who don’t use amount and is every element under page accessible to some without using a mouth, I think is a really good thing to check over. You could at least do that check in the hour time frame and then schedule out any improvements that you need to make.

[00:16:16.44] spk_2:
Okay. Yeah. I mean, if we have thousands of pages, isn’t that this is gonna This is gonna be a much longer one, beyond-potential

[00:16:21.04] spk_4:
e. I mean, for a lot of these, I would say focus on your home page and your top traffic pages like coffins analytic. See, with those top traffic pages are you know, what are the top five that really get people eyes on them? Um, if you have paid on your site that gets three visitors a year, it’ll be fine. Don’t worry about it. You know, focus on what really has live on it.

[00:16:40.64] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Did you give us another one?

[00:16:47.24] spk_4:
I give you another one. Okay. I’m gonna go down in the things

[00:16:48.45] spk_2:
I said to and then I made three e.

[00:16:52.84] spk_4:
I have another one right here. This

[00:16:54.66] spk_3:
one actually is

[00:16:56.56] spk_4:
two for easy. Especially if you’re using WordPress or another constant mounting system at a two factor authentication for your log in screen.

[00:17:05.94] spk_2:
Two factor authentication. Oh, yes. Okay. Yes.

[00:17:09.05] spk_4:
You have Robert for walking folk logging in from different locations. If you’re sharing while giving the developers or other external people just make sure that everyone feeling being really faced when they log in and protector security

[00:17:20.59] spk_2:
is that sort of a spy becoming the standard now? I mean, I get I get that offer from a lot more sites now. Then I did on it Seemed like even just a year ago or so, you know, encouraging me. Teoh, sign up for two factor authentication, whether it’s by email or by text message is that Is that sort of becoming the standard Loggins?

[00:17:41.72] spk_4:
I haven’t. I see. It was standard. A lot of fun with account. Loggins for other website. I haven’t seen it. I would like to see it, but haven’t seen it rising as a standard for your actual admin account to manage the back end of a website. But I do think it’s a smart security move.

[00:17:57.44] spk_3:
Okay, if I can add I mean, we’re seeing websites of nonprofits becoming targets of attack increasingly so over the last four years, a ZX, much as foreign agents or tryingto have corporate websites. It’s They’re also trying to hack non profit websites, and it’s incredibly easy. We’ve heard of nonprofits have had their websites held for ransom, who had them taken over used maliciously. And so I actually have toe not just agree, but kind of reinforce. I think we’re done. Nick is saying that we should all consider two factor authentication of requirement for our jobs and are not profits. If we have access to something like administrative controls of a website, have access to private constituent data. Have access to private donor data. Mads, most of us in our organizations.

[00:18:42.93] spk_2:
Okay, Chris, go ahead. You’re

[00:20:57.34] spk_3:
okay. Two more. Two more. Um, these are actually two of my favorites because it’s something that’s so in a way, very easy. But, um, none of us really do well and myself included. I think we overlook it because it’s what happens after a transaction. So it’s the confirmation page and the acknowledging the emails is there to tweaks confirmation page and acknowledgement emails that people see and receive after they take a major action on our website. Like sign up, subscribe. Donate to us. You think of the confirmation page 100% of people who went to the process and got to your donation page and made a donation. 100% of them are going to see a confirmation page, and about 80% of them are gonna open that acknowledgement email. And yet most of us use that content as another debt. It basically a wall to say thank you. Here’s what you just did. I find it especially funny of acknowledging the emails, and I’ve done some research with various organizations that worked with over the years, looking at large scale amounts of acknowledgement emails that were sent versus newsletters versus appeal letters versus other types of email communications. And while emails, appeals and other newsletters receive anywhere between, like 10 50% open rates, at least 80% of our users are opening the acknowledgement email that tells them what they just did on your website. So can we use that as an opportunity to provide a new engagement for them or a new call to action? But I try to end every engagement opportunity or touch points like a donation with an opportunity for three new touch points to begin, and that could be as easily as watch this video to find out how your body is gonna be abused or the impact you just help us make It can be. Subscribe to our email so you can stay on top of what’s happening next. It could be a tender local event. Follow us on social media. Tweet your support. There’s so many ways that we can keep folks engaged instead of simply saying thank you and goodbye. So that’s two of them. That’s our confirmation page. The page we see after the taken action. What? How can we customize that to make it more engaging and offer more for the donor to do next? And it’s our acknowledge me email, usually an email they received within 24 hours after taking a major action on our website. And Mike Wise also usually gives them tax information or confirmation what they just did, but also an opportunity to ask them to tweet, click, follow, share, watch we do more.

[00:21:14.05] spk_2:
Okay, I was just gonna ask, Are these good places Teoh acquaint people with the social channels for

[00:21:42.95] spk_3:
absolutely campus? Yeah, I would. I would make it a little bit more personal, probably, and customize it more than just follow us. Um, I took one tactic I’ve seen used. That I really appreciate is following it up with a thank you video that maybe is, or an impact video that’s hosted on a social media channel that you can either link to, say, Watch this video and then take them to Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn wherever you want them to be. YouTube had them watch it there so that they’re actually exposed to that. Another candle, your on instead of just sending them back to your website where they just came from.

[00:21:51.57] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Does that count is two or that was two places to do. The same action

[00:21:57.36] spk_3:
that was to different actions that we contain. Customizing a web page is gonna take about an hour problem.

[00:22:00.94] spk_2:
Okay, um, you want to another one?

[00:23:50.84] spk_3:
Sure. So speaking of calls to action, another one that we want to talk about was effective Calls to action. And there’s been lots of research on this from a lot of different companies. One very famous study is actually from head pub spot. Um, that showed ah, fairly drastic increase in conversions on click throughs. Win the links that in the buttons that were used with the cholera action included more than something like read more or, um, or down or Ah uh, was it click here. That’s the other one. Whenever we have a link on a Web page that says Click here or a button that just says Submit, that’s the other one that could be bothersome. So those are basic called actions and Hub. Spot says that smart to call the actions that are very specific description action oriented can actually increase the conversions by around 42% of the click throughs. This these men not conversions pictures by 42% to those links. So instead of read Mawr, maybe, the link says, register for 52 tweaks. Webinar. It’s descriptive. It’s clear it’s gonna be more action oriented saying, Register, do this. You’re telling them exactly what they want them to do. And it’s also going to be better for search engines because it tells search engines what’s behind that link. It also is better for screen readers because screen readers will read out a link that says, Read more and then they don’t know what MAWR it would divorce about, uh or just says submit, and they don’t know which form are no Web page there actually submitted. So we can be a bit more specific with our buttons instead of submit by saying these, like, register, read more, sign up post to Facebook. So instead of just share post specifically to each channel on a button download, even download the resource.

[00:24:14.27] spk_2:
Okay, Okay. That’s a good one, because there’s But the buttons are so ubiquitous. Um, have to quibble with you about called toe actions. I would I would have said calls to action. Like attorneys general. Yeah, Generals. So I don’t You might want Yes. Just ah, tweak. 53 tweaks in 52 weeks. Um, how many? Go ahead, please.

[00:25:15.24] spk_4:
Sure. So two more for me and these. I will. I will take it out of developer land. Um, and and these These are actually both really quick and easy. These could be done in far less than an hour. So one of them is placing a call to action In your footer, people look at the footer that’s been shown through through heat mapping tools where they met over people. I goes where their mouth is go. So political action and that Twitter, if you can. And if you can embed a form directly getting more and more popular to have a tiny subscribe form in your in your footer that’s just birth last and email stupor. Simple one and then another super simple one is auditing your staff page. Is there anyone left on that half page that doesn’t work the organization anymore? Is that leading to their email address that might help you monitor anymore? Is there anyone who has been hired who’s not all that page and needs to be? I think I when I also consult and when I do what I for naught profit law that time. You know what I’m working on the content with, um, that we like, Oh, they’re seven changes the stat page that we just haven’t made in the last six months. So your view is, get a let out, keep it up to date. It doesn’t take a long time.

[00:26:04.04] spk_2:
No, it’s coming to me to while we’re the three of us are talking Dominique that depending on when I air this, you know, we may still all be working from home. Um, I don’t know for sure, but a good chance. These are the kinds of things that could easily fit on a task list. You know, you could not that we’re working from home and have enormous amounts of free time, but we it seems like the kind of things things we know we could pick our top half a dozen or so that we want that we want to take on of the ones were discussing and and you know where to take them off one a week or once, even one every couple weeks while we’re, you know, most likely still working from home

[00:26:13.35] spk_4:
coolly. And also, I think, what kind of your stressful Sometimes it feel, what they are for everyone right now and which they probably will be for a while. But I feel really easy to have, like, one relatively right. This is why people put shower on their to do list so they can

[00:26:28.07] spk_2:
cough

[00:26:28.36] spk_4:
it off. It’s feel good and create momentum to have something easy that you can do and then check off and move forward.

[00:26:45.58] spk_2:
Okay, this is cool. This is a great one to kick off R and D C coverage with easy, easy fixes. Don’t take long. Um, let’s see who who started because we’re gonna We’re gonna wrap with the next round. So who Christie went

[00:26:52.05] spk_4:
you

[00:26:52.51] spk_2:
used. Okay, Chris, Go ahead. Wraps up.

[00:28:38.64] spk_3:
Well, okay, well, let’s wrap it up with one of them. That should probably actually be first that we haven’t already done these yet. And that’s around setting up Google tag manager. So Google tag manager is the modern future proof version of a tag data that you in bed under website and it allows Google analytics and other code to be embedded on your Web site. So we contract outta around how users are accessing our website where they’re coming from and more information. So most of us by now probably have Google Analytics code on our website already. Hopefully, we’ve already updated, but if we haven’t yet Google tag managers, the new version, because who will analytics code would require tweaking of the code. Every time we wanted to add a new event, an event, it could be something like ensuring that we’re able to track the number of PDS that are downloaded on our website or able to track the percentage of a page that somebody schools on our website. These are things that Go analytics doesn’t track by default, although they can be easily configured with Google tag manager. Over time, we can add new event triggers or new code, even things like Facebook pixel, which is used to attract people from Facebook who are on our website taking actions after seeing an ad or post. All of this is much more manageable, manageable and easier to use. With Google tag manager like Google Analytics, it’s free to set up. I need to be found a tag manager dot google dot com And then we have about five more that if you end up coming in watching the recording of our presentation or downloading the slide, you have access to all of these that includes, like spending an hour one week setting up event tracking to ensure that P, D. EFS and other non native forms of content are actually tracked. When access on their website. Well, like I suggested the scroll on a page, we can track the percentage of school on page, which is incredibly important for organizations that are writing a lot of contents. Blawg Post resource is other educational information.

[00:28:51.06] spk_2:
Where can we find the slides.

[00:29:01.24] spk_3:
So the slides and the recording of this presentation are gonna be available at tuttle dot link slash 52 tweaks total dot link slash 52 tweaks. That’s to U T T L E. You’ll get the slides. You can get a recording of our webinar. You can also subscribe to an email if you like. A drip campaign will send you one email week with one of these tweaks and links to instructions on how to start it.

[00:29:31.84] spk_2:
Oh, cool you and dominate for doing this together we are. Yeah, awesome. All right, that’s that’s fabulous. All right. Thank you very much. Both of you, for ah, kicking off our coverage. It’s Chris Total, principal at Tunnel Co and Dominique Hernandez, website administrator for Institute for Policy Studies. Thanks to both of you. Thanks so much.

[00:29:39.84] spk_5:
Things are just

[00:29:41.34] spk_2:
responsive by Cougar Mountain software. This and TC coverage. Thanks so much for being with our 20 and TC coverage,

[00:31:48.01] spk_1:
we need to take a break. Cougar Mountains software. Their accounting product Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial. Check it out on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant non Now, time for Tony’s take to start the racism conversation. That’s our latest special episode. If we’re going to have a legitimate national conversation about race, it’s got to start with each of us. We can’t count on somebody else. I used to have a Boy Scout leader who said There is nobody named somebody else. We certainly can’t count on political leadership. They’ll just get dragged along later on after we start things after we create the momentum, it starts with each of us. For every time you’ve seen Gandhi’s be the change you wish to see in the world posted on Twitter and Facebook, this is a moment for you to walk the walk, not merely read the post. There’s 401 year old systemic racism running throughout our country, including throughout the non profit community, including throughout your non profit. Do you want to identify it and deal with it, or do you want to merely read the post and walk by like the officers who stood by while George Floyd was murdered. Like the officers who walked by. Martin Gino laying bleeding in Buffalo. If you want to be the change, you need to start the conversation. That’s where our special episode helps you do. My guest is Case Suarez, executive director of Equity in the Center. It’s out in podcast. If you prefer video, it’s on my YouTube channel in the racism and white privilege playlist that is tony Stick do Now. Time for Keep Your shiny new website shiny and new.

[00:32:21.94] spk_2:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. That’s the 2020 non profit technology conference. The conference had to be canceled, unfortunately, but we are continuing virtually with our coverage. Our coverage is sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. Joining me now are Josh Rheiman and Samantha Wasserman. They are both with great believer. Josh is the founder and president, and Samantha is account manager. Josh Samantha. Welcome.

[00:32:24.44] spk_5:
Thanks. Thank you.

[00:32:44.14] spk_2:
I’m glad we could work this out. It’s good to know that you’re each well and safe both in Brooklyn, New York. I’m glad I’m glad we could get together. Today. Was to We’re, ah, talking about your conference topic, which is Keep your shining new website shiny and new. Um, Josh, why did you start us off? What seems to be the problem? Why did you think that we needed ah, session like this? Put it that way.

[00:32:52.74] spk_5:
Sure. Um, we find that a lot of organizations invest a ton of time and money and energy and their websites, and then they just sort of forget they exist and way like to compare, um, a new website to a new car. A car starts to depreciate a sooner to drive it off the lot. And if the websites not properly attended to the same kidnapping into it. So we like to devise really strategic maintenance plans with organizations we work with to make sure that the value continues to grow over time.

[00:33:22.44] spk_2:
Okay. Maintenance plans. So? Well, we have some time to get into the maintenance planning. Um, you have some tips on keeping it fresh and keeping content fresh. Um, Samantha, Anything you want to add to the beginning of part of this?

[00:33:38.19] spk_6:
I think Josh pretty much summed it up. We know that it could be a lot to manage a website, and we have some ideas for how to keep things interesting and up to date after lunch.

[00:33:47.88] spk_2:
Okay, cool. So why don’t you get us started? What? Uh, what goes into this maintenance plans, Samantha?

[00:34:57.43] spk_6:
Well, we think it’s really important. Teoh identify key people at your organization to keep the website up to date. We know it could be a lot of work for a single staff member to be responsible for all of an organization’s website updates. So we always recommend finding different gatekeepers for different types of content. So whether it’s an HR team being responsible for job postings or development team being responsible for keeping events up to date, it’s really important to try to spread out the responsibility a little bit. Um, it’s also really important toe. Think about keeping content current. So are you updating blawg posts? Are you updating your staff and board list? Users are going to come to your site trying to find up to date information about what’s happening at the organization. So it’s really important wherever possible, that you’re keeping content updated. So even if it’s little things like shifting an image on your home page or promoting a new program just something so that the state feels less stale every time a user visits. That could go a long way in helping things feel dynamic.

[00:35:04.74] spk_2:
What about that blawg, Samantha? It’s it’s that can be daunting. You recommend? I guess, I presume. But I won’t make explicit distributing that around so that different different teams are contributing content to the blocks of the Nobody feels burdened and overwhelmed, but it still stays fresh.

[00:35:50.06] spk_6:
That’s a great question. We hear this a lot, you know, It could be a little bit Don thing to keep, um, up to date with a content production schedule. So there’s a couple of things you can do. You can definitely bring in various collaborators to tell stories from all over the organization or client stories potentially but also think about what you’re going to call that log Block has a certain association in terms of a frequency of posting. Maybe if you come up with a different creative title for your blogged, it’ll help alleviate that pressure a little bit. Andan also tried

[00:36:05.93] spk_2:
What? What? Let me Let me stop you. If you got an example or two of something creative instead of calling it you know, on the main navigation bar tickling our blawg. You got something? Sure, but one

[00:36:07.03] spk_6:
of our Yeah, one of our clients is called Data two X. Um and they came up with a name for their block called the two X tape. Um, so just something a little bit

[00:36:16.73] spk_2:
creatively

[00:36:17.56] spk_6:
on their name. It’s not too different than a blogger, but just, um maybe people don’t associate that with the same weekly update,

[00:36:24.73] spk_2:
wearier more often lower, lower the expectations

[00:36:32.83] spk_6:
exactly. And then also try toe produce content in advance so that if there’s a busier time, you know, maybe it’s grown a virus and you don’t have time for your regularly scheduled programming. You have something in your back pocket that you can go back to something evergreen, um, that you prepared when things are a little bit slower. So it’s always great to kind of load up that content calendar when you have the time.

[00:36:54.44] spk_2:
Yeah, OK. OK, Josh, more, more. You want to add on the this overall maintenance plan?

[00:37:37.72] spk_5:
Sure. I mean, a lot of the things that Samantha is talking about the things that I can talk about also are things that really anybody could do at their organization. You don’t need to be a designer, you don’t need to be a developer. And there are maintenance plans that we construct that are much more Design and development focused, but the plan for this session was to really give people tips and tricks they can put into action immediately. Um, and that could be whether they are, you know, preparing to start a website redesign process that they’re in the midst of one or if they recently completed one. It’s always good to start thinking about ways that they can put these interaction themselves and don’t need to actually hire an outside vendor. And there is a lot of other, um, there a lot of other ideas that we do want to mention. I think a really important thing, though, that you can do either during the processor after is to make the most of your Web vendor. And there’s a lot of things there went. Bender can do it. Prepare your website in a way that makes us effective. This possible. So, for example, every website we do in every website profit every website built nowadays is much more user friendly in terms of being able to make content updates to it. We use WordPress. WordPress is like 40% of the Internet at this point, and we’re presses so nice because we can custom design a cider or whatever Web under your working with custom. Design it, but you can to make edits toe all the pages of your site yourself, whether it’s adding a new team member, duplicating a page for a new campaign or otherwise. So that’s one thing that we always encourage people to make sure their Web vendors are doing to make sure that their site will also be easy to manage. And there are other things. Also, any Web make sure

[00:38:36.74] spk_1:
let’s go through some of these tips and tricks. Yeah, don’t.

[00:38:39.42] spk_5:
All right

[00:38:43.35] spk_2:
way Don’t hold out on us, please. About

[00:40:23.21] spk_5:
yeah, for sure. I mean, there are a lot of other things Any Web vendor should connect your site to. Google Analytics. You should have a tool for search engine optimization and Google ads is something you have the Google ad grant and a really important piece of our process, and everyone thunders process should be to give the organization a training guide that actually shows how to use the back end of your site, whether it’s WordPress or truthful or another content management system. So yes, there should always be a training session where the agency runs the organization through the back end of their site shows not a make updates, every page of the site, and so on and so forth. But the training guide is a nice reminder for someone who may have been in that session but forgot circle pieces but could also be something that’s given to a new staff member when they join so they don’t need to get the whole run down the 30 minute run down for another staff member. They could just take the guide and go off to the races. And on a similar note, we recommend creating something we call a in case of emergency document. And this is just when things go wrong. This is the thing you turn to. So it should have that training guide in it, or a link to the training guide so anybody could make any changes to the site. They need to, for example, with um cove in 19 of somebody in less than they could change the home page to call out their approach to responding to the crisis. They need to be able to log into the site and make that change. So it’s always great to have access to that training guide. But it’s also important that access to your Web vendor. So we always recommend putting contact in both for that web vendor into this incurred in case of emergency document contact didn’t vote for your donation platforms. Other platforms on your side should something break. And suddenly things are not working correctly to make sure that could get fixed as soon as possible. Also, log in credentials. Oh, God.

[00:40:25.97] spk_2:
Um, I was gonna change subject little bit. So did you want us to say finish something about log in credentials?

[00:40:33.08] spk_5:
Yeah, this quickly. I did other things you can put into this document or log in credentials to other platforms on your site. Even contact info for your host. If suddenly your site is down and you have no idea why. Just making sure you have at your disposal information. You need to fix things if they go wrong. Because we always say Internet is is an in perfect place. Google docks goes down. Google doc breaks. So it’s always great to have at your disposal access points to fix things. Hopefully, they don’t go wrong too often when they dio, you should be able to resolve them quickly.

[00:41:14.61] spk_2:
Okay, um, I was gonna take a little digression with you. I’m wondering why you prefer WordPress over Drew Pole or Jumla. Can you, uh you sound like maybe your WordPress evangelist. Do you want toe? Explain why, Why? You prefer WordPress over other ones?

[00:41:20.61] spk_5:
Sure, and I’m sure Samantha want to chime in here. Also, the main thing for us is that we do all of our design completely from scratch. And we do our very best to then build the websites in a way where any client can very easily manage it themselves. And we find the WordPress works the best for that with something like dribble and dribble releases a new version. Um, you often need to make pre wholesale updates to your side if not fully revamp your sight completely. And with WordPress, the updates that are released are are easier to handle. They don’t require widespread changes. So we think that where press works well to make sure the site will still look beautiful. It would be easy to manage and also will work well for years to come given, given its its build set up and also the fact that it is like 35 to 40% of the Internet.

[00:42:06.80] spk_2:
Yeah, Samantha, anything you want to add on, Why WordPress.

[00:42:28.90] spk_6:
It allows us to make our designs as customers. We’d like a CE Josh mentioned. And so it’s kind of the perfect marriage, something that we can give over to our clients once it’s finished and looks amazing. And we do a lot of, um, kind of modular template ties pages. And it allows our clients to mix and match different pieces to meet their needs for new programs or new cook campaigns as they come up.

[00:42:35.30] spk_2:
Okay,

[00:42:35.71] spk_5:
We also find that since WordPress is so popular that when we create a new website for an organization, some of not most of people that we trained to manage that side have dabbled with WordPress or even manage a WordPress site before, So it’s less of a 0 to 60 approach

[00:43:29.42] spk_1:
time for our last break turn to communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know that turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard. So people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re a turn hyphen two dot ceo we’ve got but loads more time for keep your shiny new website shiny and new. Samantha, let’s go back to

[00:43:40.40] spk_2:
you. Uh, one of the things that you mentioned in there Ah, session description is techniques to allocate different types of updates to different team members. Uh, what can you What can you flush out there for us?

[00:44:07.30] spk_6:
Sure. Well, piggybacking off of the WordPress discussion a little bit, um, within WordPress. And I’m sure in other CMS isas well, there are different levels of access that you can give different users, so this could be really useful. Maybe you have an intern who’s helping you with those block post you don’t want to give them. We’ll publish access on the web site. But you want people to drop something that a supervisor then reviews, or you can give that huge. Our team that I mentioned before access to just the job posts on the website but not full access to the website. So there’s a lot of customization that you can do. Um, and we always think it starts to just get a ZX Many people on board with learning how to update the website is possible. Just toe. Like I said, spread out the responsibility. But also, you know, if someone leaves the organization, you don’t want to be left in a place where you can update your website for several months because the one person with all of that knowledge is no longer available.

[00:44:54.49] spk_2:
So it sounds like you really favor a decentralized approach. Teoh Content Management is there Anybody who maybe shouldn’t be shouldn’t make medic, maybe contributes content, but it doesn’t have the authority to change the site themselves. They really like that.

[00:44:59.09] spk_6:
We try to hide as many settings in our WordPress dashboards as possible. That could lead toe larger site wide or code changes. Uh, but within an organization, it really does depend on the organizational structure. But typically there is kind of one person on the communications team who will really, um, lead the whole process and assigned different responsibilities. But we do find that it could be a really overwhelming task, especially when you first launch to get all the content loaded in. And that’s where we see in our website projects. Um, some of the biggest challenges or holdups timeline wise for our clients. So we do always recommend to try to find several different team members who can emphasise.

[00:45:58.15] spk_2:
Okay, what about keeping supporters engaged? You know, people engaged with your site after, ah, full blown launch. I mean, some of that, for a good part of that is keeping content fresh. I realized that something beyond beyond just that the you can talk about

[00:46:03.72] spk_6:
Absolutely. So it’s like you said, it’s not enough just to keep the site updated. It’s also important to make sure that, um, users continue to find their way to your site. So when the site first launches, of course it’s important to you social media posts and email blasts and Google ads to drive traffic to the site. But this continues to be important even after lunch. In this maintenance period sides, you add new content or pages like upcoming events or a capital campaign. It’s really important to use those tools to drive users back to the website again.

[00:46:36.58] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Um, Josh is there. Is there anything that would sort of be a trigger for when we need ah, refresh of our site? Maybe it’s not a full blown new site, but at least a refresh or or maybe something more like. Are you listening to what people are saying? People don’t come out and say your site looks dull or you know, your site looks like 2003. But how do you I didn’t know that it may be time for at least a refresh.

[00:47:06.18] spk_5:
Yeah, there’s really two sides of the equation. The first is the visual side and really just asking people to honestly look at their website and feel like if it reflects who they are from a design perspective doesn’t do justice to their mission and their work. And also is the user experience clear? If you send somebody to the site looking to make a donation, can they easily do it? If you send somebody to the site to fill it a volunteer form can they get there without calling the office to find out how to do it? So sometimes an old website doesn’t just look bad, but actually can waste time for staff members who need to explain how to get there and also just not do justice to the current status of their work. That’s the front end to the site, but also back in perspective, like we’re talking about with site management. It’s so important that anybody without coding skills or technical expertise or average non profit staffer could make changes to the site themselves. And we have found that a lot of sites that were revamping they actually are circa 2003 or something around there. And because of that, they look very outdated. They don’t really have relevant programmatic language compared to what the organization does now, and they’re impossible to update. And if they can update it, they can update only small components. And if they can’t have to rely upon 1/3 party who often has to have him enter into a ticketing system, and they could take a couple of days to make a very small change like let’s, say, changing your phone number.

[00:48:44.81] spk_2:
Yeah, okay, Okay, Um, if you have all these people contributing to your site, how do you make sure that things look the same. Feel the same across across all the different pages that they might the different teams air, contributing to consistency. Basically, I’m asking about How do you How do you make sure your site looks consistent throughout?

[00:48:51.77] spk_6:
I think that goes back. Teoh Josh’s point about leaning on your Web thunder and making sure that you have adequate training or training guide, Um, after the site is built but also on the organization side. It’s really important to have that kind of team leader who oversees all website updates, and you kind of be the consistency police or the brand police, you know, make sure that the tone is the same and that the correct templates being used making kind of run point on everything

[00:49:17.97] spk_2:
okay,

[00:50:01.26] spk_5:
Yeah, and piggyback enough that that training guide will have very specific information or shoot ivory specific information. For example, the featured image on your home page measures this this many pixels by this many pixels. So when you replace it with a new photo, it’s not cropped awkwardly. It’s not too small to fit the space that’s really important. But another thing you can get from your webs under is design assets from your website. And if an organization of somebody on staff whose aware of how to use Adobe in design or photo shop or illustrator you can actually request assets for graphics like let’s say, an infographic that talks about how many people you served in 2019. If the organization has that raw file, they can update it for 2020 and that can replace that file on the website. But even if an organization doesn’t have people that air designed savvy with those programs, they can still request all the assets to have them. You know, j pegs of the infographics another graphics used in their sight snake and then use those and other places like, um, like an email blessed to again create that level of consistency like you were talking about across all these different channels.

[00:50:23.30] spk_2:
Yeah. Okay. We still got a few minutes left, Josh. Anything? What happened? We talked about that. You’d like people to know.

[00:50:34.66] spk_5:
Good question. I I think the

[00:50:35.72] spk_2:
okay

[00:51:10.16] spk_5:
ultra. One thing out there. I think a lot of the a lot of the need for Web maintenance comes from relief. Thinking about who you are as an organization on what are the key actions you’re driving. So donations air almost usually number one for all, or eggs. And the visitors, their science, then you need to think about is event registration important? Our email sign ups important. Our volunteer sign ups important because you want to keep your site current with all the content we’re talking about. But you also want to drive people apart to your site where they can take those actions that are so important to keep your organization running. So kind of assessing the real purpose of your site and those key actions you’re driving could help to dictate what kind of maintenance plan you might need.

[00:51:21.39] spk_2:
Okay, How about you, Samantha? Something you’d like to add that we haven’t talked about yet or go more detail or

[00:51:32.86] spk_6:
thanks, Josh pretty much covered it. Um, I think it’s really important toe. Make sure that Yeah, um, realizing that users are going to your website as probably the first place they look for updates about your organization. And so all of the tips that we’ve outlined are really important just to make sure that information is up to do and there’s nothing that screams outdated, like an event being highlighted on the home page that past two months ago. So just being really cognizant of, um, what contents being featured and how often you’re checking back on your site?

[00:52:05.95] spk_5:
Okay, I’ll throw one more thing out there, tony, which is oftentimes it’s very hard for an organization to get funding allocated to a website redesign process because that’s money that could be going elsewhere. Money date on fighting for for years. Um, but what we recommend organizations do is not just fight for the money to cover that website redesign, but also fight for money that could handle maintenance and maintenance in terms of how it’s structured is really a case to case basis you could talk about with your Web vendor, but you’ll wanna have additional funds lying around and ready for use to make sure that your Web vendor can continue to work with you. Because all the things that we’re talking about you can do yourself. There are certain things, like if you want to make a brand new page from scratch or create new graphics or in bed a new piece of functionality, it’s important to have hopefully some budget remaining after the initial Web redesign budget was depleted. To get the full picture and to keep your site growing from, ah, more of a design and development perspective.

[00:53:07.72] spk_2:
Okay. All right, we’re gonna wrap it up there. All right? That’s Josh Rheiman, founder and president of Great Believer and Samantha Wasserman, account manager, A great believer, and both in Brooklyn, New York, where the company is Thanks so much. Thanks for sharing. Just like dozens of tips. Thank you very much.

[00:53:17.05] spk_5:
Thanks, tony.

[00:53:27.01] spk_2:
And all right, stay safe and thank you for being with tony-martignetti. Non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC were sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial? Thanks so much for being with us

[00:54:23.36] spk_1:
next week. Women of color in Fundraising and Philanthropy A new online community will have the founder back, Yolanda Johnson, plus more interviews from 20 NTC. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for the free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative

[00:55:02.15] spk_0:
producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz Managed Stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this Music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for July 12, 2019: Your Crowdfunding Campaign & CRM + Email + Website

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Moshe Hecht: Your Crowdfunding Campaign
Most crowdfunding campaigns don’t make goal. What are the common denominators for failure and success? Moshe Hecht answers all, and shares his organizational readiness checklist to get you prepared for success. He’s chief innovation officer at Charidy. (Recorded at 19NTC)





Isaac Shalev: CRM + Email + Website
You’ll learn more about the people engaging with you when your CRM, email and website are integrated and talking to each other. We’ll leave you with a plan for getting these technologies together. My guest, also from 19NTC, is Isaac Shalev, president of Sage70.





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Transcript for 448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.mp3 Processed on: 2019-07-15T12:28:32.797Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…07…448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.mp3.945783280.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/07/448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d turn pseudo referees if you made me sweat with the idea that you missed today’s show Your crowdfunding campaign. Most crowdfunding campaigns don’t make goal. What are the common denominators for failure and success? We she Hecht answers all and shares his organizational readiness checklist to get you prepared for success. He’s chief innovation officer at charity that’s recorded at 19 NTC and C R M plus email plus website. You’ll learn more about the people engaging with you when you’re C R M E mail and Web site are integrated and talking to each other. We’ll leave you with a plan for getting these technologies together. My guest also ferment 19. NTC is Isaac Shalev, president of Sage 70 Attorneys Take two. Show number 450 were sponsored by Wagner. C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution specifically for non-profits tourney dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications. Full service, strategic communications and PR turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here is your crowdfunding campaign. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. That’s the 1920 19 non-profit technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. All of our 1990 seasoned reviews are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools for helping non-profits to make an impact. I’m joined down by mushy Hecht. He is the chief innovation officer at charity. That’s with a D. On his topic is why your crowdfunding campaign might fail and how to avoid it. Welcome, mushy. Thank you. Thank you, Tony, for having me on the show. It’s a pleasure. Pleasure. Um, what’s the work at the charity? So we are a crowdfunding platform and consulting service. So we help non-profits run their e-giving days crowdfunding campaigns, and we do the entire back office service for them. So we’ll give them the platform, and then we will give them a a team of marketing specialists and fund-raising consultants to help them succeed in their crowdfunding campaigns. Okay, so your first step in making sure your crowdfunding campaign doesn’t fail might be to engage charity. That’s right. Oh, man. What a free from I just give you 30,000 listeners, and I’m not gonna charge you. You didn’t ask for it, so I’m not going. Um, okay, it should be pretty simple. You got a lot of ideas around. Reasons why these things might I’m over modulating. Why these things might fail. Um, give us some some stats. Most do. Bye fail. You mean not make goal, I presume. Let’s define our terms. So that xero Yeah, that’s a great That’s a great way to start. So yeah. Okay, so the industry would would, you know, measures it by, you know, you set a campaign goal, and then you don’t reach your campaign goal. And that has about a 2/3 of campaigns. Don’t succeed across crowdster have very broad metric. If you go a little deeper into it’s a personal cause. Crowdfunding campaigns success rate is actually much lower than that. We go into non-profits or a little bit hyre. You’re going to creative creative campaigns for businesses and products. They’ll be somewhere depending What platform? Some Some state, 44% success rate, somewhere lower. Um, it’s not great. The success rate is not great and mostly judged by reaching the goal. Now, in our talk, I spoke about a different metric, which is probably more accurate and more helpful metric to of what failure means. Okay, so if you think about and you try to zone in and what did the essential difference between let’s go modern crowdfunding and, you know, just a classic fund-raising. Okay, so before modern crowdfund e-giving at some really great ways to fund-raising direct direct No, you know, you know, face-to-face solicitations, events, andan, even email marketing as of late and social Media Marketing has a laser all great tools to fund-raising to get in front of people into engage and solicit donations. I would, um, I in my view and in my experience, essential core difference of why you would okay, do a crowdfunding. I mean, if you got all those other options, is that when you when you set out to do a crowdfunding campaign, Essentially, what you’re trying to accomplish is to hit a tipping point that the campaign the crowd from the campaign will be so effective that it reaches a threshold. And over that threshold, it reaches a certain Momenta Mme that you don’t need a push it anymore. And it has a life of its own, right? So think about some of the most popular crowdfunding campaigns that we don’t know about what we call us when we, uh, you reach a you reach, um, you have your pioneers, you’re early adopters, and then you reach early majority. That’s right. Tipping point. I’m glad. Yes, Malcolm. So it’s it’s funny mentioned that my entire talk was actually is based on sort of the narrative that we’ve created through for the presentation to make it a little bit, you know, easier to understand is I based it on the Mountain Gladwell book. Oh, on the on the fundamentals. And that book came out in 2000 19 years later. The fundamentals of that book are still very true and can be used as an analogy for what it takes to reach a tipping point. And that’s really what you’re setting out to do, because otherwise just go to classic other ways. Just why put in the work in the effort to try to do a craft in-kind every single Exactly. You gotta start using direct mail to get people to donate to your crowdfunding campaign. Just write a letter, a solicitation letter, eggs. Every single dollar is a struggle, right? So the possibilities is really what you know of this, you know, uber connected world, this World wide web of goodness and kindness that we live in the possibilities of hitting, attempting a tipping point of having the campaign go well beyond your own abilities to take on a life of its own is really what we’re trying to accomplish. So I would say that there’s actually if you use that metric as as as failure, it’s actually a lot more than 2/3. It’s just that that’s hard to measure. Weight have to be really do granular analysis of what can I get? Lots of campaigns and how they trended and over over what beer time. Okay, but yeah, if you apply that measure, I’m sure it’s. But it’s not much worse, less less than 1/3 succeeding Okay. Ah, so what are what’s the best way to? We just dive in and say, What’s the number one? Well, I I thought of something. After all, what’s the number one reason campaigns failed, So there isn’t one reason. And number one number one, what’s the top reason? It’s gotta be a top reason. So mote many of you. Well, what I would say. Probably a top if I had to choose. The top reason is a lack preparation. I’m asking you, like a lack of preparation and the infrastructure set up right in for up front. Okay. What we do, What do you need to do up front? Very good. So you’re getting me through the top? Didn’t you see the questions I gave you before? So, Tony, tell me, um, it’s time for a break. Weather, cps, their accountants. You know what they do. For goodness sake. You’ve heard me say this. You know what CPS do? C p a. Certified public accountants. Do you need one? Do you need a firm? You need a couple, whatever you need. You know what they do? Check them out first at wagner cps dot com. And then you know what to do after that. Pick up the phone, talk to you. Eat duitz. Doom the partner. He’ll tell you whether Wagner CPS can help you. Regular cps dot com Now back to bushy Hecht and your crowdfunding campaign. So that’s actually a good question. Once the number one reason, Yeah. Lack of preparation, I think, um, people they see so we see a lot of graph looks easy, right? It looks like a kn accident. Do it. Do a do a 32nd selfie video. I go on to kickstarter or go fund me. What? According to you, what? What? My intentions are what my goal is what I’m raising money for. And, uh, and then and then people just come like we thought about web sites in 1990 to build it, and everybody will come to it. Not gonna happen. Yeah, doesn’t happen. So there are, um, a few core ingredients that need to go. It’s a new set of we’re talking about upfront, prepped on infrastructure. And these are I would say, these are fresh tools that non-profits need to learn. Okay, um and maybe individually, some of them are, you know, classic tools. But combining them together is really where the magic happens. The glue that brings them all together, that creates that, you know, sort of velocity That helps a campaign take off those two and these air. And I say they’re fresh tools, because there, you know, they’re the these are part of this is possible. I believe that. You know, we hear a lot of saying, like, you know, don’t try to do a, you know, ice bucket challenge for your organization, right? It’s just not realistic. And that’s actually, you know, if if consultant would tell you that I would say the streets looking out for you, he’s not trying to set you up for you. No unrealistic expectations. But I have a bit of a different view in the way my experience on what might what? What I do for a living is we actually work to reverse engineer a an ice bucket challenge and say, What were the ingredients that went into the ice bucket challenge even though it happened by accident again? Okay, organically. It’s not like someone came together. All right, we’re gonna raise under $50,000,000. We’re gonna get the entire world plus the president down. Bill Gates, everything. Here’s the plan. Follow blueprint. Do it. But l s had some things in place. Well, they’re so there. So not with not with this intention. I would say it doesn’t like that so I would say we’ll study. It doesn’t matter. Meaning whether the things happened by accident or they happened with intention. Doesn’t matter. Just tell me, what were those that they were in place? No, no, I understand that. Yeah, I agree. Yes. So they’re making it clear that they didn’t set him up with the intention of exactly Because that’s country what you’re talking about. Yeah. So? So what we’ve done is what was already so number one, Let’s go through a mountain labbate. Okay, Number one is the power of the few. Okay, so we know about you know, the power few 80 20 rule When it comes to fund-raising grayce absentee money is coming from 20% to you people. 20% of ah, you know, 20% of your people should be giving 80% your money, right? And we use this says as a methodology for fund-raising. Rarely do we use it as a methodology for involuntary engagement and for soliciting people to become ambassadors and influencers for your organization. Where we say Okay, well, if we’re trying to get to the message, we should just engage with the mass masses. But the reality is is that it works the same way with volunteer engagement. Getting people to advocate for organization is first, find the power of the few. Find the power of those. The column, the the influencers, your power. Your have power on social media. Exactly. So so glad. Will breaks it down into into into three different types of people. Connectors, mavens and sales people. Right. So today we call them influencers, right? And they but influencers have varying degrees of these attributes, you know? So Ah, connectors like you going to a party. And you’re like, you know, how’d you get here, Laura? You know, she, uh, Lauren bradunas. She invited me to You walked through the room. Heroes at Laura basically was, like, had something to do with everyone invited to the party. Right. You’re going to a conference in Portland, you know? Oh, you have to meet Laura. She’s gonna be there. You gotta meet Tony. You gotta get on the show. You know, everyone’s on his show like these air connectors. That’s not a hypothetical. No, no, that’s that’s really you’re connected. And you’re also maybe even be a maven. Maybe even a sale of herself. Disgusting. You’re made in first. Everything I don’t want to say I’m a whore. Everything. Oh, my God. There’s a lot of Yeah, So there’s a lot of obviously that there’s crossover at some people. Could be like a professional something, And they’re also a bit of a connector. But essentially, it’s influencers. Right? But influencers, you know, today we know the Miss Influences, and they’re like, OK, instagram influencers, they sort of They become formalized and formulated into an actual career. Right? But it’s not just the professional way. Gotta move this long. You have a lot of tips were only on the 1st 1 so number. So you know what? No, I do wanna go deeper on this before before we leave it, but I’m directing you that we got, uh I wanted to get specific. What do you do with these influences first? First you gotta identify them. There are companies that I can help you sort through your all your social contact if you give them your email. Maybe charity does that. I don’t know, but you get enough of a free promotion. I’m not gonna let you say whether you do it or not. Maybe you do maybe you don’t go to charity dot com. She could find out beyond that. So you’ve identified your influencers? What do you do it before your campaign? You You Well, you empower them to be a springboard and a messaging board for your organization. So say you’re a school, okay? And you identify, um, an educator in the community, right? That who’s a maven in the community, which happens to be a parent, right? And you, you you engage with that person and say, Listen, we’re doing the campaign, and we’re raising money for this in this new program. And you happen to be a professional in this program and love for you to get onto a video and talk about like, Yes, this program really deserves the funding that is being asked for. And among all the noise that’s happening through all the solicitations and asking this is going to rise to the tide because you’re getting that trust and that gravitas from this professional who’s going to bring your message to the forefront. So you want to identify them? You want to empower them, engage with them and ask them to become advocates for your campaign. Now, if and their first. So they’re really carrying the message forward, right? The connectors are like just by just by posting it on Twitter today or posting on instagram or putting it on a whatsapp group, they’re naturally connecting or they’re going to an event, right? The mavens air giving you no weights and trust to the conversation. Salespeople are creating persuasive reasons why you should give and should give Maura and give even more. You line these people of strategically, you could have a much greater chance of success. All right, How much? How far in advance? Great question. So it happens in in-kind. Took 14 minutes for questions. Wait. Another 10 maybe 12 5 Feel generous it How far? So we do it, so we do it in stages. So what’s really important with crowdster radcampaign is keeping the momentum going. So you don’t want to, you know, start preparing a campaign several months before, and then you lose interest in you lose momentum, right? Because you want to complain. It’s like a plane taking off, right? So they’re usually the first people that you would reach out to you before you go public before you go public, right? so you’d reach out to a couple weeks before a couple of weeks before you know if I’m dealing with a squid newsome with university. So it would be like, let’s say, two months before the campaign and you want to. You want to give them preparation? Won’t have them prepare their message. You want to have them, you know they’re gonna go out and they’re going to speak on behalf of the school. They have questions. They’re gonna I want to, you know, you know, curate and really define their message. Probably university. That’s a bigger bureaucracy to so some of their messaging may have to be approved, but sizes smaller midsize shop. Well, College University could be a mid size small shop. You don’t need to be two months out in advance. We’ll give you an example. Influencer. Yeah, so I’ll give you an example. We did a campaign we ran a campaign for Why you in New York University and this was three years ago. We’ve done one recently also, but the 1st 1 that we did of slogan was I m y you and Lin Manuel Miranda was actually a honorary graduate of Achieve University. So We engaged with him for a video several weeks before, But then the video only launched the day before. So it’s about lining up that strategy. Decided that would be a nice shot. Exactly. I shot started every every campaign’s not gonna have a Lin Manuel Miranda. But that’s, you know, kind of an example of someone finding people who have that broad appeal and that broad network to be able to, you know, take your message further. All right. Um, what else do we have to have in place? Yeah, in advance. So them the were only on the in advanced stage. We’re not even into the way. Have 10 minutes left. So the second thing is really, really second thing is really taking messaging. Very serious. So we’re still in the preparation we’re so ever. So I’ll tell you, Tony. Oh, everything. Everything happens in preparation. Okay. If you know what I always say that once your campaign starts, it’s already over. There’s nothing you can do about it once it starts. You know, once it starts, you just if you’re waiting to it for to start for to be successful, you’re gonna lose all your friends. Okay? Yeah, because you’re just gonna be harassing people, like throughout that radcampaign beating down the door for wait. We don’t want that. That’s not that’s not the outcome that we’re trying t. Okay, It all happens before I really wanted thio off. Okay? Yeah. So the second thing is just taking your messaging very seriously. Um, and Gladwell talks about it compares it to, like, you know, the stickiness factor. You can have good messaging. Are you gonna have missing that actually sticks, right. So taking, going to the depth of your cause and your appeal and really defining the truth in the essence of what you’re trying to say. But then churning that into a bite size, you know, congest oppcoll message that has that has legs, okay. And a message that is going to be memorable easily. Big headlines will be able to, you know, the think different, open happiness. You know, those type of messaging, it works wonders in crowdfunding. And it’s so important because you know, the distance between your message and your conversion is actually really, really close. You know, you’re going on on social media and you’re saying, you know, getting to the core of an organization, Really? So getting to the heart of organization and making a real beautiful, you know? Well, well, well positioned. Ask right. You can see it conversion instantly. Be just moments instantly. And that’s what’s important, right? So 20 years ago, when you had a great man, you’re doing a billboard. You couldn’t really measure the results in the conversion of the building. Well X amount of eyes walking down next month. Today, messaging is so much more critical. You can’t mess with that because it’s like there’s so much you can gain with a better message. People are going to see some that’s really gonna be compelling. They’re gonna take action. You’re gonna have feedback immediately, instantly. And that’s also good with testing. So you can text messages. You contest the messages, you can tweak messages. Okay. Messaging? Yes. 30. Glad we’ll talk about the power of context. Okay, so context is that the timing is the right environment. The right moves, you know, it’s social. Are people prepared for it? Right. So on a practical level, you know, the do’s and don’ts of timing. And so you know, you know, for for ce que no for typical organization you want to think about. Okay? December’s a great month. You know, you’re on fund-raising. I want time up and lead my fund-raising My my crowd from the campaign to happen You’re in Line it up with your and fundez latto content. It should be leveraged year and fund-raising thing. Right? Um, if you are a religious organization, it should be before the holidays tied into tight to the holidays where people are in the mood of e-giving worth tied around Christmas for people in the, you know, in the in the giving season. So timing is really, really important. And then in the don’ts, you know, timing around Passover? Exactly. Yes. The Passover is coming up soon. It’s a great time. We have a lot of campaigns happening. Be Christmas. Just a Catholic name. Yeah, I was trying pandering. You’re pandering. Necessary called you out here. Listen. Martignetti sounds Catholic. Culwell call at Christmas. Go ahead from New York, Jewish or Christian? Celebrated Christmas. You know, it’s everywhere. You can’t get away from it. You know, I heard that, um my kids are still wondering why they don’t have a Christmas tree. That they’re not getting it um, it’s just everywhere, you know. Um, you know, it’s interesting on it. Before this company I work for my brother started a virtual currency company. This was 2012 Virtual what? Virtual currency. Currency 1012. No. One way ahead, Right. Guys got back. It was where he was just too much of a vision or way ahead. Right? So you’re talking about and there’s actually I’ve been in the last six months I’ve actually seen already three businesses that have almost the exact identical business model. Tow what we what he what he created and what we were trying to create that genius. Brilliant. Nothing bad timing right through these other three of taking off other’s movements. There’s a whole ecosystem today. Virtual currencies go today, so timing is really, really important, you know? Are you coming out with your message? Where than even the environment is ready for it? Look at that. Remember the immigration campaign that you don’t let your brother listen to this? Yeah, sure. Does he know I really wrote that rodeo? How I wrote about this kind of threw him under a bus. You know, zoho thing for him, you know, it’s it’s, it’s he’s a genius, you know? He’s, you know, he’s too smart. It’s got no time, no time, no good. You can’t invent the car now. Exactly. You remember the image of the campaign that Facebook krauz from campaign that raised like $35,000,000 for, you know, for for the immigration organization in D. C. Was a 35,000,000 crowdster. It was a $35,000,000 crowdster. That organization, before that campaign struggled to reach $1,000,000 a year fund-raising. They didn’t even have a budget of more of $1,000,000. Here they are, the timing with the entire immigration fiasco that’s that’s going on. Someone launches a campaign on their behalf, or they launch shevawn exactly sure who launched it within weeks. $35,000,000 from tens of townspeople. And and you should. You know it’s not about being an ambulance chaser. You don’t want to take advantage of situations but should be looking out for you. That’s that’s grabbing a hook Exactly. If there’s immigration news and you’re in the immigration space, I think if you don’t grab a hook, your risk being irrelevant, and I’ve had guests who have said that, and I believe it myself. I just I just repeat everything. Guess yeah. Bring smart. Don’t have any knowledge of your own. I have a good memory. All right, let’s move on. Really? Have a couple minutes left, like three or four. So more things. More things. Preparation. Mushy, please. So I’ll tell you. Great. So So you have your So let’s say you lined up all these ingredients, right? And you you line up your power of the few. You get your influences lined up to really help you can. You got amazing messaging, right? And then you have the timing’s perfect. You get even a little setup, right? Roger. And for what you’re missing right now is it’s not enough. No, no, not sufficiently. You’re missing. You’re missing. What you’re missing here is velocity. Okay, so think take up. Sorry about that. Take a plane. Take off. Right, Guys, watch one off. Yeah, take a plane. That’s mine. I put mine on airport road airplane mode for you. Uh, if I could get the same courtesy put in his pocket, but he still didn’t put it. Still did not know. You only gave me 30 minutes and going in airplane mode, yet just took in his pockets. It’s still gonna vibrate. All right, So take a plane, right? It has to reach a certain speed within a certain amount of space. Was a certain amount of time actually living velocity velocity on and lift and lift in the upper wings and believe that teacher above pressure below. So all that scientific stuff, But the point is that you need thes things to happen within within a specific amount of time for us to be able to create that combustion for it actually take off right field to hit the tipping point. Yeah. Okay, So, um, I’ll give an example of what things? People we see that people are usually doing wrong they can improve on. Is that, you know, yesterday had to come from at my talk. I asked someone like you who’s been involved in a crowd from the campaign dahna peer-to-peer of campaign, for example. And one person Me. Okay. And I said, Well, tell me how it went in these and she said, Well, they called me out, they sent me an email and then there was an event, anything, and they said you know, would you take on a campaign a page to raise $3600 for the organization. Right? And she said yes. Okay. And then when was the end? When was the organ it? When was the campaign culminating? Four months. So is the worst words four months of her life. Okay, so you need a much less time than you think you do, right? You think more time equals more money? No, no, no, it doesn’t. Less time equals more money because, you know, people are just inundated with so much information. And if you if you have the right ingredients to motivate the person to say yes, I’ll give right with by telling them, you know, whether you let’s say you put a matching component on the campaign right where you said in this and limited amount of time, your money will be matched, right? Right. Or you put it. You have a certain goal that you have to reach within a certain amount of time, that urgency, their impact recognition with everybody’s gonna be recognized. The campaign. You have all those ingredients and you have the right man. You have the right people pushing it and the context is right. You need very, very little time to actually take off. The majority of our campaigns happen in 24 36 hours. Millions are being raised in 24 3rd toe with weeks of preparation. So if you want to hit a tipping point, you can’t have, you know, miles of runway. You’ll never take off. You just drive right off the runway, and that’s it. So shorten the runway and and and prepare the ingredients that you need, as we just mentioned. But that should be all be done in the maintenance hangar. Exactly playing now, in case that wasn’t obvious. Yeah, you’re feeding off, Tony. We feel about each other is done in manufacturing. I mean, you go way back, but it’s done in maintenance, maintenance and cleaning. Yes. Okay. All right. All right. Uh, give me another minute. You got, uh, Can I? Yeah. You got one more thing. I want to wrap it up. Dahna without mentioning charity dot com. Can you Can you summarize or you want to give another tip? You know, listen, I’m here today, and I don’t do a lot of the conferences, but it’s it’s It’s fantastic to be to be here. I think the Auntie unconference is really nice, you know, some of their like way big. And there’s not a lot of you know, too big to have conversations and too small. I think this is a really, really nice sized dent. Unconference. I’ve met a lot of wonderful people here, a lot of people doing a lot of innovative stuff in this space. It’s it’s encouraging to be here to see a lot of people, you know, working towards the same goal. Yeah, all right, we’ll leave it there. Thank you for having actually. Don’t don’t walk away yet. Your your phone is Your watch is buzzing. He’s monisha Hecht. He’s the chief innovation officer at charity. C H a R D y. That’s enough shout outs for that, and you’re with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 ntcdinosaur 2019 non-profit Technology Conference, Portland, Oregon All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our Partners Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software maintaining separate accounts for each fund-raising daily expenses and reporting to the board are all challenging. That’s why Cougar Mountain created Denali fund-raising osili Fund, a complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profits. You know, like the Park Denali. They have a free 60 day trial at tony dot m. A slash Cougar Mountain Denali, of course, is also a mountain, but it’s Ah park in a mountain Denali fund that m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now, time for Tony’s take to the 450th non-profit radio is July 26th. Yes, we’ve been at this nine years times 50 shows. There you go. Who’s gonna be with us? Scott Stein, of course. Live music. You gotta have Scott and his 88 singing. Ah, our theme song. Cheap red wine Live in the studio. Um, of course, our creative producer, Claire Meyerhoff, live in the studio. Call ins from all our contributors. Giveaways? Yes, giveaways. I’m sure we’ll have cure a coffee. The coffee owned by the dentist that provides dental care for coffee growers and coffee workers. As you buy their bags of coffee, they’ll be there. A sponsor of the 450th will be giving away some bags of cure coffee. Always great fun. Um, we’ll have some some comedic thing. It’s too early to tell you. Don’t You don’t need to know at this point if I told you you’d forget anyway, So just be tuned in for the 4/50 and you’ll see what we’re doing. We’re giving away and, uh, what we put together. All right, that’s it. That’s Tony’s. Take two Now here is C. R M plus email plus website. Tough. Welcome to Tony Martin. Non-profit radio coverage of 1990. See, that’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me now is Isaac Shalev. He is president at Sage 70 and his topic is solving the C r M plus email plus website equation. Isaac. Welcome. Thanks very much for having me, Tony. A real pleasure. You have a real radio voice. Good podcast voice. I should start one you have right now. You have one already, right? I’m cheating. I do. I’ve been podcasting for a few years on a totally different top shot out your podcast. What is it? My podcast is called on board games, and it’s about board games. Eso head overto on board games dot net to check it out. Okay, Wonderful. That that’s obviously a part time passion of yours again. Yeah, I I design board games on the side. You designed them. I was gonna ask you, Do you talk more about classic or contemporary games? We mostly talk about contemporary games. We talk about the games industry, which is exploding these days, and we feature interviews with industry guests and talk about what’s happening at conventions and things like that. That’s what’s fabulous about podcasting. The niche niche, a board games podcast. Yeah, you could go all the way down the rabbit hole in a podcast. And there’s somebody down there listening, doing it. Yes, whatever it is. Yeah, all right, Uh, let’s do our equation. So what? What’s the problem here? Well, I think it’s an opportunity, really. More than a problem of the opportunity is to be able to know more about the people who are engaged in your mission. Whether that’s donors who are coming to your website to learn more about you or who are reading your emails because they want to know more about the work that you’re doing, um, or whether it’s program participants who you want to track as they go through your programs. You want to be able to wherever somebody touches you, no and track and engaged, which means you need a database that can store all that engagement information. But you also need connections between where the engagement happens. Right when you send an email, you need to know who opened the email in order to track that they opened it and cared about it. Same thing with the Web. When somebody visits your website, you want to know that they came and what they clicked on that’s gonna help you communicate with them about the parts of your work that they care most about. So that’s the promise of C. R M. When it’s integrated with email and with the website. The technical challenges enormous, though, because these are different systems by different vendors and different underlying technology, and making them connect is not trivial. So we’ve spent the last 15 years working on this and we’re getting there. We’re getting closer and closer each year. Are the vendors cooperating with each other? I think that over time we’ve seen a few cycles of how this kind of works. So initially we had a lot of unbundled services. You had your website on your website was I mean, even think about the pre WordPress days, right? When when people were spinning up websites on bear code. Um, and you had databases that didn’t even talk to the Web. I mean, if you were working with earlier versions of razors at your donor perfect, they didn’t have any connection to the Web. But all that’s changed a lot. Now they’re all in one systems. You know, Neon is a vendor that’s pretty popular in that space that provide content management systems as well as email marketing platforms as part of the core CR M database offering. But you can still do it. Lots of other ways and enterprise solutions are often more of a Let me pick of the best in breed for each service I want and then integrate through AP eyes, Um, and that can be very powerful, but it’s challenging, not on just the technical level, but on the training you need to train staff to be able to use multiple different systems. And you need governance. You need somebody to oversee how different systems connect and make sure that the right pieces of data move to the right place is a lot to this. All right, well, that’s what we called it. An equation, you know, were straightforward. There’s some math ap eyes. Let’s just make make that clear. We have jargon jail on non-profit radio. You’ve trapped me in. So I didn’t drop you. I was your for your You’re free falling every rolling. I walked right in and slammed the door. Okay, I know that in a p I was like, It’s a call from one to another, but you you don’t know what it stands for. You can define it better than I can. So, uh, a p I is a way in which one system defines how it wants to be spoken to buy another system. So when you use an A p I, what you’re doing is you’re sort of saying I want to move information like your name and your email address from my website, where I captured it in a form to my C R m so that I can see if maybe you’ve been a donor and I can add engagement record, I can add a touchpoint to your record. So my cr m will say, Oh, that’s great. If you want to pass me information, send it to me in a file that looks like this, right? So send it to me within column one Put the name in column to put the email and package that into a you know, an extra accept ostomel far, whatever it is. And send that to me. That’s basically what an A p I is. It’s how to structure data so that you can move from one system to another stand for something. Yeah, it stands for automatic program interface. I believe I’m not sure about the A Okay. Program interface makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Um, is there an advantage? Thio open source versus proprietary in terms of the three working together. If if you’re all open source, are you more likely to have compatibility? Oh, um or not. I don’t think that, uh, you necessarily will have more compatibility. What’s true is that open source products worm or committed to an open standard s o. They were more committed to offering AP eyes that allows data to move in and out of systems. And there were a lot of and there remained a lot of vendors who don’t yet have fully open AP eyes. In some cases, like blackbaud has been spending quite a bit of time developing their sky a p I that promises to allow open access. But the reality is that if you’re sitting in Razor’s Edge seven, it’s hard to move data in and out because there aren’t really open AP eyes. So yes, if you were in an open source system, you probably had access to open a P eyes on at least one side of things. I think generally that modular architecture, that idea that the product that I’m building should allow data to move in and out has become more broadly embraced no matter what, and open source products have faded, I think, in their relevance to the non-profit space over the last few years, So C v. C R M is no longer ah leading C R M product in the market without sails. For Salesforce’s open source business sales forces of proprietary proprietary yes, sales force is owned by the Sales Force company. I know, and I heard somebody say that it was open. Source. Sales Force has open AP eyes So let’s let’s define the difference here. Open source means that the coda that the product was written in is available to anyone like Firefox. Right? Mozilla makes Firefox. Mozilla’s an open source, right? So you can take that code. You can do whatever you want to it. You don’t have to pay anyone for it on. That’s what open source means. Sales force, on the other hand, has open ap eyes. Which means how could that I could? No. Course not. You have to report sales for separation. Yeah, All right, So So, yes, but you do want to look for that, but you do want a little lackluster. Sorry, I’m the only one. It’s Tony martignetti now, probably. Unfortunately, not somebody else’s not greater. You’re stuck here. Okay, so, yes, maybe was open a p I Maybe that’s what I misunderstood. Well, the trick is also that you have to be really concerned about the word ap I because there are, um a lot of folks out there saying we have a p eyes and they’re not wrong. They do have a P eyes, but they may not be opening all of the different tables in the database to you. So you may wanna track information in your c r M that you can’t pull from another system. Because, for example, um, you might have an email system where you can pull whether a person opened a specific email on whether they clicked on a specific email. But maybe you can’t pull which email they unsubscribes from. That’s just not an available thing to pull from there a p I So you’ve got some functionality. But when you made the decision oh, they have an A p I. Let’s use them. You might not have been aware of the limitations. S o a. P. I doesn’t mean all the data can move easily, and you really need to explore and make sure by examining the AP I documentation to dive down. Yeah, to know that it’s going to share with you the with your other system, the information that you’re expecting to carry over, right? I mean, you can imagine a donor system saying they have open ap eyes. So you could pull everybody’s name and email address, but not how much they donated. That’s not super helpful, But you could still describe it as an open A P. I Okay. Okay, good. Thank you. Straighten me out, Trainable. Stick with me. But I’m training. Um uh, learning about. See, the databases of records, FBI’s integration methods, Um, a plan for getting these technologies to talk to one another. So we have. Have you done your session yet? I’ll be doing my session tomorrow. Okay. But it’s a repeat. I did it last year. You did? No, I didn’t capture you last year. No. No. Yeah, yeah. I was doing a session at the time that you offered to me. Okay. You really gotta schedule. Maybe I invited you and you turned me down. That’s possible, too. Way invite. More than we can refill. It’s possible. It’s possible. I’m glad to be here this year. Yeah, I’m glad you are to thank you for coming this year. Well, I’ve been listening for a long time, so I think I’m excited. Thio have a chance to be on the other end of the mike. Thank you. Glad. Um, Okay. So Well, what only one with just a little bit about the fact that you’re you’re you’ve been listening for so long and gratified to be a gift. A guest. What? Well, I was I was gonna suggest that we talk a little bit about how, um today the need for integration is even greater because our stakeholders expect us to know everything right. When you come to an organization, you expect them to know whether you’ve been to an event or whether you were engaged in a particular cause. There’s just no separation from from the perspective of the donor of, ah, stakeholder between the different departments within an organization, you know, you call it, and a lot of that expectation is driven by what we are experiencing e commerce for sure. Very smart companies like Zappos, Amazon on and maybe even buy some smart charities that have raised the bar. So now we’re expecting I mean, why don’t you have the same? You have access to the same technology they do if you’re willing to invest in it. So the bar is hyre, you know, step up your game absolutely and fairly right in that we came preaching the importance of working with each individual and segmenting our communication so that everyone feels a personal connection. And if you’re gonna talk that game when the donor calls, you better know who they are. And that means that you need someone at that phone in front of a terminal where they can type in a name and see the full view of what this person has done with your organization. So the stakes are rising in terms of being able to do this and the means by which we do it keep multiplying, right. We have Maur and more channels. So it used to be that we were just doing direct mountain. We did email. Then we did text to give. And now we have ah peer-to-peer platforms. We have so many more ways in which we’re engaging. And usually it’s another vendor. It’s another system. It’s another database through which we add this functionality and a couple of years go by and some CR M pulls that functionality in and you get increased functionality within your core system. How are we gonna make this happen though you have? You obviously have to have expertise to do this. Thio, have these cross platform communications. So 11 tip, one big tip. Here’s if you listen to nothing else in this interview. I want everyone to walk away with this one big idea. Have a network map. A network map is a map that shows all the different systems that you have and arrows pointing to which system pushes data into which place. And this doesn’t sound that complicated. And the reality is, it’s not hard to do. You list all your systems and then you draw your arrows. And when you’re drawing your arrows, just indicate whether it’s an automatic move of data or whether it’s manual. Are you downloading the spreadsheet and uploading it to a new system? That’s manual. Is there an A P I. Is there an integration that does it without you having to do anything automatic? Just make that map, and now you have an opportunity, right, because now you can see where your manual processes. Maybe there’s something you can do about that where your automated ones and also you know, you you don’t want to trip over yourself. You can create loops right where one system updates the next one, the next one and the next one, and then they circle back and making a map avoids that trouble. So that’s the first step in thinking through a problem like this is make the map and figure out what’s in the middle. What’s your database of record? Where you gonna collect all that data? And if you don’t have one, that’s your first mission. Oh, if there’s nothing at your core if you don’t have a database of record, if you don’t have the place where you keep all the data, you really don’t have a way to centralize time for our last break. Turn to communications. Full service Strategic communications and PR for non-profits Turn to helps you tell compelling stories. Advocate for your cause and make a difference through media relations, content, marketing, communications and branding strategy. They’re at turn hyphen to dot CEO not dot com that CEO now here’s back to, but loads more time. Of course, for CR M plus email plus website, there’s there’s some new methods for dealing with kind of cross platform stuff. You’ve got all these tools and you’re trying Thio to be able to see he threw it through and across all of them, so you may have heard folks talking about data, warehousing, data, warehousing is it? Sounds kind of, I don’t know, futuristic in some ways, but futuristic in the most boring way, right? We don’t get flying cars. We got data warehouses, but a data warehouse is basically pouring every other database that you have into one big database. But you don’t have that database do anything, right? So in other words, just doesn’t delivery males. It doesn’t do any transaction. You can query from it right on. And so then you can query across all your different systems. And so you say, Find me the person who received these three e mails who donated at least $100 over the last year. And who cares about owls and they live in New Jersey. Perfect. Right. And I can, even though that data lives in multiple data. Very right. But if you can make that query right, then you can send that email that says who gives a hoot. And that person in New Jersey is gonna open that email right now. You’ve sold me on the value of a data warehouse. How do you create such a thing? Well, data warehouses are created mostly with open source tools. Actually s o. A lot of times you take a my sequel database and you use a P I’s to pull in data from all your different systems. Sometimes you have to download stuff and upload stuff. There’s data extraction transformation and loading process is E. T ells that go along with that? But the key is that you need and I say key because it really is about what’s called a primary key in a database. Every line every row in that database is represented by a unique identify. Something has to be unique, right? And the trouble is that everything that has the nation’s my information systems degree from Carnegie Mellon it’s paying off. Also antiquated. But you know, as antiquated as it is, that was true in 8429 week. Identify where each row right and when there is such a unique identifier than you can really make the magic happen. The trouble is, when you push three different databases into one, each database had its own unique identifier. So you Tony martignetti are 1 28 in this database and your 3 96 in that database in your 4 25 donordigital base. I’m in the employee database, right. So we need to create 1/4 unique identify in the warehouse that identifies you across those three systems. So there’s some work to do. And that’s why we recommend that non-profits do work with experts around this because data warehousing can be complex to get off the ground. But it has incredible returns in terms of transparency, invisibility of your most valuable data across multiple systems. So this means that you don’t have to take everyone’s favorite system away from them or the system that you just spent a whole bunch of money implementing. You don’t have to get rid of it because it doesn’t integrate with that system. You can keep everyone working with the tools they love while still creating transparent information and reporting for decision makers. OK, I’m gonna guess that sage 70 will, uh, will help you with this. So what’s age 70 will do is help you assess your digital infrastructure. What are all the tools that you’re using? Are they well integrated? Do you have the right staff and skills to leverage them? A lot of times you know, the trouble that you have is not your tool doesn’t work. The trouble that you have is that strategy. You’re not sure what you’re trying to achieve or how to measure it, or it’s that skills. You know what you’re trying to achieve. You just don’t have the people who can do it or they’re structured poorly. You’ve got them scattered across different departments and they’re not effective and you need to centralize them, whatever it might be, The tool itself is usually relatively far down the list, and that’s because we’re in 2019 and we’re lucky. A lot of the tools have gotten a lot better. There’s been a lot of feature convergence, so any tulani CR m you pick is gonna have a lot of the same features. And it’s less about nailing the tool and much more about understanding what you wanted to achieve, making sure your staffed for it, making sure that the data is traveling through each system the right way. So that’s what saved 70 helps with when you actually want to build the thing. They’re specialists to build that thing. This folks here, um, right here it ntcdinosaur recommend everyone talked to a fracture is a great partner in this O Matic. If you’re on razor’s edge is another great partner for this s o there folks out there who specialize in setting up your data warehouse. And it’s a process I really, really recommend that you get expertise for Ah, but ah, start with strategy, though. Figure out what’s trying to do. Right? Right. What? Why? Yeah. What’s our goal? Yeah, what’s our purpose? And which information do we need to raise the visibility of? Because one of those, one of the worst things that you can do is build a warehouse that lets you see everything and then try and look at everything. No. You gotta look at the five things that matter most. What else you gonna talk about tomorrow? Well, I think we’re gonna talk on the agenda. Well, we’re gonna talk a little bit about the, uh the different ways that vendors offer this kind of integration. So there are all in one vendors that offer you a lot of different tools under one roof. And that’s great because it’s easy to train staff in that you see familiar screens over and over again. The data on the back end is integrated, so they’re really effective. However you trade Cem flexibility, you may prefer a different email tool, but the vendor doesn’t have that. They haven’t all in one, so you have to stick with them. You might go with, you know, totally the opposite. On end of the spectrum, you might go with a platform, whether that sales force or dynamics where you ca NBA build whatever you want on this kind of core foundation, and that gives you tremendous flexibility, you can build whatever you want. It also gives you a lot of costs and challenges your skills because you can build anything if you have the money for it in the know how. Um, should you build anything that’s usually ended? Question. And there’s the maintenance of the of the custom. Build right, and you have to budget not just for the maintenance, but here’s the real l tricky one. When you build a custom system, nobody can train you in it, but you, so you have to now build a training capacity to continue supporting your system. This isn’t you know. I’ll say this over and over again. We spend too much time thinking about what it’s gonna cost us to buy our tech tools to build our tech tools to maintain our tech tools. We should be spending twice that much time thinking about how to acquire the right staff, howto retain them and how to train them to use our tools. That’s the hard part. I mean, so many people non-profits have tremendous passion and tremendous skillsets, but not often great technical skillsets. That’s part of what a successful non-profit needs to learn how to do is in bed strong skillsets in technology in their staff and be willing to invest. You have to be invested in it either either through staff or or outside help, right? I mean, you know the old joke, right? What happens if I You spend all my money training my staff and then they leave? Well, what happens if you don’t spend the money training your staff and they stay? I haven’t heard that joke. I don’t know that one. I haven’t heard that. All right, E. I wish we had a laugh track. Have an awful on trains. I’m not sure it would have been too loud. You have a good, hearty laugh yourself. That’s all right. Um, okay. We still have another couple minutes together. Uh, what else are you gonna? I don’t know. You know, based on your session description, I feel like we’ve covered everything, but we can’t have covered it all because we haven’t spent 75 minutes together. Well, we certainly haven’t. I think that, uh, one of the tricks that you have to really, uh, ask yourself is Do I pursue a C r M driven strategy? And this is something that I want every small non-profit listening to think hard about because, you know, I sat with the client ones and they were talking about how they wanted to put everything in a c r M. And what should we do? And I asked, How many donors do you have that you communicate with? And they said 500. And I said, That’s a wonderful number. You don’t need to C R M. You need a telephone. 500 donors call two a day, right? There’s your not at a point where you need the scale. And therefore you shouldn’t hamper yourself with the You know what a system is gonna tie you to, uh, there’s another small non-profit Smallish. I mean, talk about 30 employees. So not tiny. Um, but, uh, 30 employees couple $1,000,000 in revenue And they you’re using sales force, which is, by the way, fair, very challenging for small organizations to use effectively. But they had really the cleanest salesforce implementation I’ve ever seen. Data was hygienic. It was kept well, they had a sale sports admin on staff. They had another part time sales force person who really did a great job of pushing all of their donordigital and all of their program stuff into sales force. They were running every program out of sales force. And I kind of wanted to actually have a panel tomorrow about managing your managing using a c R M. To manage program. Yeah, yeah, it’s It’s certainly part of the promise of sales forces you can cross from donor to constituent tow program participants, and they made it work. However, however, there there’s a but there’s a big but lurking at the end of this one, which is that even though they were doing such a great job of that whenever they wanted to spin up a new program and they’re young enough that they’re still spinning up new programs and thinking of new ways to solve their problems. Whenever they wanted to spend up a new program, they got stuck. They got stuck in a six month sales force development cycle. We have a new program. How are we gonna administer it through sales force? We need to create new forms we need to create new business logic. We need to test it right. We need to go through the process of implementing this program into sales force. That’s really slow. You can’t sew a small organization. One of its advantages is agility and flexibility. When you take on a bigger than your class system, you may sacrifice some of that agility. Eso, you know, in our advice to them, was not to get rid of Salesforce, right? Our advice to them was, and this is crazy. But our advice to them was spend the first year of every programme in Excel and I know right, I’m a tech consultant telling you Excel is good for things, but iterated rapidly be able to be flexible. Don’t tie your data into hard relationships. Admittedly, you lose some of the benefits of structure data. It’s true. But what you gain is the ability to figure out how it’s gonna work for real. And once you figure that out, once you have some process maturity, right and you figured out what the right way to do it is, then go to Salesforce, right? Then put it into your sales force. So that’s something that I really want folks thinking about lean startup principle. That’s right. Start, start lean. You’ll learn your pivot if you need to. And then when you’ve got something that’s a year old and and proven mean, the program may not even take off right. You could spend more time in sales force development than the life of the program. Conceivably right. So when you’ve got something that you know you’re gonna stick with and you know what data capture, um, then spend your time and money on your sales force. Implementation? Yeah. Don’t overbuild your infrastructure. I mean, it’s the same idea is certainly out of the outside. It’s that same idea that you know, uh, if you’re gonna build a public space and you want to know where to put the walkways, what do you do? You wait. You wait and see where the path. Yes, yes. So it’s the same ideas and favorite. Figure out where you’re going to get a lot of bang from your infrastructure investment. Where is it going to really pay off for you on? And it’s a little bit, I think, counter to how we sometimes think about this, where it’s become so de facto that Oh, you’re gonna need to C R M and you need to see our strategy. It’s not clear to me that you need to C. R M strategy. It’s clear to me that if you want to keep track of your most important stakeholders, you’re gonna need a method for doing so. And if you have enough of them, a C R M is probably the method. Okay, okay. Give us a wrap up than solving the C r M plus email plus website equation. Well, the first thing I should say is, don’t forget, carry the one is there. Is there a solution to this equation? Yeah, I think there is a solution to the equation on, and it starts with understanding what your goals are. If you really do communicate to people. If you’re an advocacy, Oregon. You really do a ton of e mailing in a ton of segmentation. A ton of personalization, then? Yeah, you need your C r m and your email and your website to talk to one another and just not. Not just that. You need your social integrated and you need your pita pema integrated and you need your text messaging. So, yeah, that’s your core business is communicating effective segmented messaging in order to inspire actions. So it makes sense that you use that infrastructure. But that’s not gonna be the case for every non-profit. So understand. Visualize what advantage, what benefit you want out of this, and that’ll help shape your investment. What you want into this? That’s one. The second thing is, you solve this problem with the right people more than you solve it with the right tools. Invest in the right people. Whether that’s advice from consultants or whether that staff and their expertise and skills, that’s where you’re going to get the biggest force multiplier the right people. All right, Isaac shall live. He is president at Sage 70 helped us solve the C R M plus email plus website equation. I thank you very much. Thanks, Isaac. Thank you, Tony. Great to be here. Pleasure. Thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 and T. C. All of our interviews at 19 ntcdinosaur brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much Being with us next week, it’s the week before the 450th show. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. C p A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers weather cps dot com But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution specifically for non-profits 20 dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, full service, strategic communications and PR. Turn hyphen to dot C o ah creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Leibowitz is the line producer producer. The show’s show schnoll Media is buy shoes in Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be Greek. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Beyond potential. 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